# 2.0T Coilpacks and spark plug gap, trying random new stuff.



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Stock 1.8T Coils are junk. Literally. They barely work and misfire constantly, just enough to not trigger an increment on the misfire counter of the ECU, but enough to make you go insane and feel a hesitation or have fluctuating vacuum due to varying completion of combustion events at idle and under load. Just because folks have made 700+whp does not mean they did it without using barely functional coils. It is like boiling a frog in a pot of water, you don't know you are done for until the water is boiling as you have adjusted to the increasing heat over time and problems.

Since the 1.8T came with these crap coils, we think that these cars run fine. Reality is they do not, at all with stock coils, stock tune even. Perceptive people who are aware can pick this up as described above.

This has been the case of EVERY 1.8T I have owned, and I am on my third and fourth personal cars, as well as tinkering with countless other local cars. THEY ALL HAVE LOW GRADE MISFIRING! You can't datalog it, because the misfires are slight enough that the crank speed sensor monitoring code is not picking up on the very slight slowdown/hesitation. (If I remember right that is how the misfire counter/detection works. It increments a counter for a cylinder when the crank speed sensor detects an oddity[simple explanation]). You can feel it as a hesitation, and see your vacuum readings fluctuate ever so slightly, maybe .5" hg to 1" hg with a little bit of uneven shake at idle. 




* /* BIG TURBO UPDATE */*

Isaam did 27psi on a large turbo @ .040 gap. Noticed the same results as everyone with stock turbos.

Pete @ IE Engineering did a 800hp engine dyno run with these coils @ .026 gap. 

*/* Update */*

*My personal results on stock turbo cars*I am really enjoying the 1.8T more. My beater super stock 02 AWP jetta has never run smoother even with brand new pushdowns. 190k on the original motor, cracked coilpack harness that is oxidizing bad since we bought it 3 years ago (I know, but it stills runs better even than when it had brand new pushdowns 1.8t coils & no vacuum leaks!)

They are also 20$ at the dealer. 

I run them on my 98 AEB 1.8TQ Audi now as well, no more external igniter and hello awesome running with no hesitation. The results on this one are skewed, I replaced the oem coilpack harness with a MKIV setup and the original 98 harness had a lot of dark oxidized copper going back down the wire towards the ECU, and a fair amount of resistance probably from being cooked by the turbo over time.


Literally drop in if you have a proper valve cover (AEB cover is too short and lets debris into the plug/coilpack bores) and good coilpack harness.

Currently running a .042 gap on both cars, no issues with a new harness and the coils below. Smoother running, throatier sound. More power all over in vacuum and boost. Moving up to .050 soon to test. 




Spartiati said:


> Have been too busy lately to make it out to the dyno but I do have some realtime numbers to discuss. Today I through the mk5 coils in my 1.8t and went for a drive. Cruisin on the highway with my cruise control set to 65mph the egt gauge was showing temps of 1120* F ... That was strangely higher than what I remembered so I got off the next exit and popped the 1.8t coils in and did a little lap between exits. I hit cruise control again at 65 mph and the 1.8t coils were holding an egt temp reading of 1060*. It was the same road using roughly the same exact speed and temps were looked at after about a mile of the cruise control being activated.
> 
> 
> Nothing crazy scientific but we can def see that the 2.0t coils burn hotter. I'm assuming this is because you are getting a cleaner burn? This is were I'm confused if the cleaner burn would cause higher EGT readings or what?
> ...


Discussion revealed it is the result of a cleaner more complete burn. He also as you can see did some back to back testing. 


*Parts list:*


Parts list to do this:

1J0 971 658 L


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

What's the difference? They look almost Identical except for a few little differences. I thought the 2.0T's are longer and sit funny.

I know the coilpacks out of my stepbrothers S3 don't work.... his is a 6 cyl though. 

Like erevly' asked are they P'n'P?


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

They are taller. You need an AWW/AWP or ATW valve cover to seal the bores, or the gasket is above on an AEB cover. 

The pinout is 100% the same as the MKIV. They may very well be a hotter coil, as that coil is used on the lean burn stuff in europe which requires a much stronger spark to go boom proper.

It is certainly a noticable difference. There is no more hesitation, car feels eager to climb the tach and start pulling, both of them.

100% plug and play unless you have an AEB motor then it takes wiring and soldering.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i may try these soon..just to post some results....


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I increased the plug gap on bkr6e's in my stock 190k mile Jetta to .040 and it runs great, no misfires.

0 vaccum leaks, 100% stock minus silicon IC tubing and a APR turbo intake pipe. 

Now that the coilpack harness is fixed, it is getting a 4.3v zener and a MBC.

See how these coils do at 20 or so psi with a larger gap.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

good find bro!


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Everyone swears the stock coils are great for 800hp because force fed did it. I don't care, the coils suck and always have. I always had random misfires here of there even when new, and I could never run the plug gap I run now with push downs or bolt downs on a stock car even without serious hesitation and enough to increment the misfire counter.

LSx coils, plug wires and etc may be better but who knows. If someone cares to measure some spark somehow and verify it I would love to see a test.

I had hesitation that was ignition related, yet would not increment the misfire counter, if I remember right that works on crankshaft speed, so enough to suck and notice but not enough to register.

My 2007 Impreza does this also, the motor rocks at idle out of time with firing events and noise. It absolute ****ing irritates me.

This 190k mile Jetta did this also and I thought maybe carbon fouled plugs or a dying coil. Now it pulls 20 inches of vacuum with a rock solid needle at idle no bouncing, no hesitation. The car sounds absolutely different at idle, fresh plugs and a .040 gap, no other change but the coils and fersh plugs. It sounds throatier and crisper with the larger gap too. I sort of did this in stages. It was 2.0T coils, stock old bkr6e & trashed coil pack harness. Noticed a good difference. Then new plugs, gapped out. Noticable. Finally coilpack harness on it all and the coil pack harness actually made NO difference really when dry out. When wet or humid i would get misfires and noticable hesitation, plus the random intermittent miss codes.

Now that coilpack harness, even the wires that were NOT cracked were noticably oxidized. Even if they are not broken you may have crappy wiring causing misfires thanks to enough resistance. My AEB harness was blackened copper under the insulation. No good.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

erevlydeux said:


> Word. I have the ECS coilpack pushdowns so as long as there is some meat on those coils that will seal against the AWP valve cover, the pushdowns should keep them in check.
> 
> Had misfires on cyl 1 & 2 since I got the car, so maybe it's time for new coils + harness + plugs... might have to give these a whirl. If they work good, might be able offer some sort of discounted all-in-one ignition refresh solution.. but I do get ahead of myself and should probably test this ish out first.
> 
> ...


Forgot to add the car is getting better mileage also. Add another 10$ for BKR7E plugs from Autozone.

The motor rocks properly at idle, no oddball jumps here or there. It used to be steady in RPM but now it is shocking for the mileage on this thing. I mean it idles better than any 1.8T i've owned, and I had one with 13 miles on it in 2000, a 4 door 1.8T Golf AWD code.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

gonna have to try these coils:beer:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSvGe8Gaqi0


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I just moved to BKR7E plugs at .041 gap. No misfires. runs great. I scanned the car as well before starting it with the new plugs, not a misfire code period. My CE was from secondary air delete 

Too bad it started raining, i was going to go beat on it. 19psi on a mbc was too much for the BKR6E's. I pulled them and they showed signs of heat early.


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## 24Vjrod1.8T (Dec 24, 2009)

Good stuff :thumbup:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I also can't take much credit someone out there mentioned the pin outs between the coils were the same. I just thought hey lean burn, and 80$ experiment next time I had coil issues. 

I had a push down die and leave me running on 3 cylinders about a month ago and a co-worker gave me a ride to the dealer where I picked up the 2.0T coils.

I am actually happy daily driving this high mileage 1.8T now, and will not be buying a new or another car. :thumbup:


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## bizad (Mar 22, 2009)

Nice find :thumbup:

For the AEB cover - I guess shortening the boot is ok or is this a no-no?


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I would not shorten it, I would move to a valve cover off an ATW or 4 pin coilpack longitudinal car. Or you just can let junk get into the plug bores, if they are not oil you can shop vac the debris out before pulling the plugs.


I did that a few times, I popped the packs out and stuck a 3/4" heater hose into my shop vac hose, sealed it with my hand and it pulled everything out. 

I'd reccomend that regardless on older cars.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

ya i have bolt down coils on my TT, since the gti is down ill just drop my awp valve cover on it and pick up a set of these coils. I probably should just do an entire wire harness (install wot box at the same time)


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## Mr.V-Dub (Jun 4, 2007)

Subscribed. Some Awesome Info Here. :cheers: :thumbup:


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

theswoleguy said:


> ya i have bolt down coils on my TT, since the gti is down ill just drop my awp valve cover on it and pick up a set of these coils. I probably should just do an entire wire harness (install wot box at the same time)


Josh you think these are better than bolt downs? 

Someone with a meter needs to measure.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

ejg3855 said:


> Josh you think these are better than bolt downs?
> 
> Someone with a meter needs to measure.


You may need more than a meter to test the spark. Major differences can simply be seen visually if you have two plugs in two coils and cycle them. But last I checked, a multimeter will not suffice  :beer:

Oh and a cool tip, if you are ever testing ignition coils like this and have a sinus infection, the ozone generated will help fix that, from ionizing the air.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Thats what I figured my fluke only goes to 8000V.

There is a way to do it with resistance and "turns" but I am not sure how to make that happen.

I not discrediting you I just looking for facts so we can actually compare.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I cant find anything on these coils, not sure if they are Bremi or Bosch. They look Bremi... but I have not really looked into it that far. I dont have the time to take numbers off them and search for hours.


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Are you running the larger spark plug gap with increased boost? I know that the general rule is to run the biggest gap you can without misfiring, so I tried BKR7E's at 0.030" gap for a while on Revo Stage 2. It was fine until the weather warmed up and I started misfiring at WOT. You've peaked my interest again so I might try increasing my gap a bit with my Malone tune to see what happens. 

I'd also like to see some technical information about the 2.0T coils to compare to 1.8T coils. The red "E" versions are sexy :thumbup:


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

I found this so far:

"06E 905 115 E" are the red versions and it looks like they're made by Beru:










Closest thing I can find to "07K 905 715 F" is the E version, made by both Bosch and Beru


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Good luck. I'd rather walk than have Hugo products in my car. That stuff is crap. Bremi seemed ok. But these seem to be better than anything yet.


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

gdoggmoney said:


> Good luck. I'd rather walk than have Hugo products in my car. That stuff is crap. Bremi seemed ok. But these seem to be better than anything yet.


I was using those as cross references for the Bosch and Beru part numbers


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Ahhh I see. Good luck man. Hopefully you can pull some info on these coils. The bosch motorsports coils range from like 30kv to to 45kv+ if I remember right for the pencil coils. The stuff with internal igniters seems to be rated lower.


:banghead:


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## 05SILVERSTONEGTI1.8T (Mar 22, 2008)

Mr.V-Dub said:


> Subscribed. Some Awesome Info Here. :thumbup:


X2 opcorn:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Link me and i will order one.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

so my wife has a 2010 vw gti 2.0t. i decided to try this out with her coils as i would not need to buy anything. first ill post pics then ill let youi all konw how it went.

Left: 1.8t coilpack Right: 2.0t coil pack









2.0t part info









1.8t part info









length and shape differences, they are apporox 1/2-3/4 inch longer.

























installed on the a4 



















findings. as the op stated, the car sounded completrely different. there was no hesitation, idle changes, vac changes. the car also accelerated a lot smoother as well. it was easier to start from a stop and the engine felt stronger. i didnt believe this at first myself so i threw them on my buddies heavily modded a4 that had an ignition problem between 4-5k rpm and the sound went away with these coils. his car also performed much better as well. i am asuming that these put out a hotter spark due to it being from a 2.0t.

Fitment:
they slide in however seeing as they are almost 3/4 inch longer they only slide in to the first rubber oring. they sear on the spark plug properly but the oring does not completely seat. i would suggest that if you were to run these i would get a set of ecs hold downs longer bolts and spacers to ensure that they do not pop up. 

in the end i will be doin this to my car along with getting a mk6 wire loom cover / a new coilpack harness / plugs run slightly larger gaps / and modified holddowns. 

thank you op for bringing this idea to light as this will be an amazing journey for my car. 

i will eventually dyno and have those findings as well to see if infact there is a power difference as well. in that case is there anyone out there that is a machinist that would be able to help me with an idea i have??????


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Awesome info. Thanks for sharing :thumbup:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i'm sold.


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Vegeta Gti said:


> i'm sold.


Ditto.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

erevlydeux said:


> Bridge the gap of what exactly?











if you notice theres about a 3/8-1/2 inch gapfrom the valve cover to full seat on the coilpack. i am going ot manufacture a piece that allows the coilpack to fully seal and seat in place. it will bolt down similar to the ecs hold downs and will allow use of the hold downs in unison with the spacer. i am going. i am using th mk6 2.0t coilpacks as they are the newest available and are only 20 dollars a pop. if anyone wants to see what i have come up with ill take a pic and post it. tomorow im going ot talk with local machinists and get a quote on a batch order. if theres enough demand ill have them mass produced. i think this is going to be a very useful mod rather than spending god knows how much on 034 system or aftermarkets.

like i said ill do the research on output and whatnot tomorrow.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

erevlydeux said:


> How are you going to make the coilpack fully seat/seal? You'd have to manufacture a sleeve that not only fits around the bore of the coilpack hole that sealed/press fit against it to provide a useful seal/alignment hole for the coilpack but then tapers back to the bore of the coilpack hole to provide a seal against the coilpack itself.
> 
> Not knocking your idea, but I think it's a little more complex than that and would require some prototyping to do right.
> 
> EDIT: Overlooked the part where you mentioned it would bolt down and act as a holder. Still seeing the need for proper prototyping since the valve cover isn't flat.


the mk6 coilpacks are the same diameter as the mk4 and mk5. the tabs that are on the coilpace itself will not be there when i install them. they are not needed and i will trim them off. i will post a quick sketch of my plans. also remeber that im going ot have them drawn up in cad and then a cnc machine will do the rest of the work. the bottom will have a rubberized coating to help promote a good seal on the surface between the adapter and the valve cover. they will be in raw form so you can do what you would like with the finish.










heres the sketch. tommorow i will take all the vital measurements and have more answers for you ladies and gents


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

if i was lazy i coild just go to 
http://www.034motorsport.com/ignition-solutions-18t-plug-wire-adapter-p-366.html

buy a set of those and have the hole widened to 35mm. if you look at the agn valvcover they have no tabs. so what you do is trim the tabs. on mk6 coilpacks the tabs stick down and attach to the bottom part of the seat. with a circle instead of notched opening it would help promote a better seal. and as mentioned all you need to do to ensure they dont pop up is use ecs tuning hold downs.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_IV--1.8T/Engine/Ignition/Coil_Pack/ES1303016/

they come in a variety of colors. and they would bolt right through the plates so eseentially you would have the plate and the holddowns.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

erevlydeux said:


> Ideally I'd like to see the sleeve be the proper height but the rest be as thin as possible while maintaining rigidity. The coilpack bolt downs are already big enough and with a spacer underneath them I feel like they will look like they are gonna kiss the top of the hood.


they wont and like i said it is merely a starting picture. as far as hitting the hood, theres no way it will. aslor remember that a cover normally goes over them. and they are in a valley if you saw the 034 dis setup youd sh!t a brick. the goal is to use as little material as possible while providing a good seal and a clean looking product the main reason for being that this is the fact that it will seal the trough as well. its ugly to look in and see the trough, so i will eliminate it. i need to make the bolt downs the same height, so that anyone planning on using the ecs hold downs wont have an issue with clearance between the hold down and the coilpack. all these things have gone into consideration.


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Could you trim the metal shield down to the rubber boot? My Hitachi E coils don't even have a metal shield:


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Also found this about different coilpacks and how voltage differs due to emissions:



> Has less to do with "how much power" they put down to the wheels, but rather how much voltage they can supply. I've always preached this, but apparently no one has ever given this any thought. You find the pop-in coils (revision J, L, R..etc) on ULEV vehicles, whereas you find the bolt-in coils (revision E's, F's, etc) on LEV vehicles.
> 
> On the A4's, the pop-in coils began on the AWM motor (2001+ through the B6) which is VVT and ULEV, whereas the ATW (2000) used the bolt-in coils for it being LEV. The honest real difference between the coils is the amount of voltage (spark) they can produce. The ULEV vehicles run much leaner to produce cleaner emissions, and therefore a stronger/more efficient spark is needed. So to contrast the two styles of coils mentioned, the pop-in ULEV coils produce a much cleaner spark, but that alone also affects its lifespan drastically.
> 
> ...


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

05GTIMarine said:


> heres the sketch. tommorow i will take all the vital measurements and have more answers for you ladies and gents


cool, thanks!


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

erevlydeux said:


> I'd have to see an actual prototype but it still sounds like you are planning on essentially making a 1/2" thick spacer instead of something with the base thick of, say, the ECS coilpack boltdowns with a 1/2" sleeve for the coilpacks.
> 
> Which one is it: 1/2" thick spacer or thinner base w/ 1/2" sleeve? :laugh:


this isnt entirely clear, or its just early and I am still sleeping.

Are you saying a spacer ala 034 ones mentioned earlier, or a thinner piece that is only thicker right at the coil pack? It would look similar to a T3 oil drain flange, minus the threads.


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## bpfoley (Nov 30, 2000)

bootymac said:


> Also found this about different coilpacks and how voltage differs due to emissions:


Will this increase in spark power alter anything enough that the O2 sensor won't be able to compensate for? I.E. you will not have too lean of a burn and run into higher combustion chamber temps.

Has anyone logged fuel trims with these? What differences were seen- if any?


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

erevlydeux said:


> That's what I'm trying to ascertain. :laugh:
> 
> When I say "1/2 inch spacer" I am referring to something equivalent to the 034 spacers, yes. When I say thin base w/ 1/2" sleeve, I'm referring to something like a T3 oil flange, yes... but obviously non-threaded and probably a thinner base/thinner sleeve.
> 
> I'd like to see the "T3 oil flange" style spacer... because otherwise the 1/2" spacer idea just looks ugly in my mind when I picture it on the valve cover. I can't quite figure out what his plan is though, which is why I tried to make the distinction and ask which one he is actually doing.


excuse the sloppy works, I was just attempting to make a representation.


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## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

> Has less to do with "how much power" they put down to the wheels, but rather how much voltage they can supply. I've always preached this, but apparently no one has ever given this any thought. You find the pop-in coils (revision J, L, R..etc) on ULEV vehicles, whereas you find the bolt-in coils (revision E's, F's, etc) on LEV vehicles.
> 
> On the A4's, the pop-in coils began on the AWM motor (2001+ through the B6) which is VVT and ULEV, whereas the ATW (2000) used the bolt-in coils for it being LEV. The honest real difference between the coils is the amount of voltage (spark) they can produce. The ULEV vehicles run much leaner to produce cleaner emissions, and therefore a stronger/more efficient spark is needed. So to contrast the two styles of coils mentioned, the pop-in ULEV coils produce a much cleaner spark, but that alone also affects its lifespan drastically.
> 
> ...


Very interesting information, would the 2.0T Coils (ULEV) work in a LEV vehicle? One that has VVT and currently would have bolt down coils? 

-John


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Malant said:


> Very interesting information, would the 2.0T Coils (ULEV) work in a LEV vehicle? One that has VVT and currently would have bolt down coils?
> 
> -John


the coilpacks that i am working with are from the ulev mk6 2.0t that is why i took pictures of the part number on the coil itself



ejg3855 said:


> excuse the sloppy works, I was just attempting to make a representation.


that is similar to what i was goint to produce. the tubular section will taper up to the same diameter as the ring in the coil and the bolt down "wings" with be the same height as the ring itself so that you can easily use hold downs.

bout to start making phone calls. bear with me


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

05GTIMarine said:


> bout to start making phone calls. bear with me


let me know cost you get, if I get ambitious (doubtful) I will make some on the CNC.


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

05GTIMarine said:


> the coilpacks that i am working with are from the ulev mk6 2.0t that is why i took pictures of the part number on the coil itself


I think he was asking how ULEV coils would work on a LEV 1.8T like an AWD, which came with "lower voltage" bolt-down style coils. I believe the AWW/AWP are ULEV?

Not sure if this is worth noting, but the 2.5 uses the same coils as the 2.0T.

If I can find a local Mk5/6 owner that's willing to let me borrow their coils, I'll do some comparative logging with my Hitachi bolt-downs and the Mk5/6 coils on my AWD. If time permits, I'll try to log different sparkplug gaps as well.


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## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

bootymac said:


> I think he was asking how ULEV coils would work on a LEV 1.8T like an AWD, which came with "lower voltage" bolt-down style coils. I believe the AWW/AWP are ULEV?


This is correct, I have a AMU (Narrowband 1.8T without VVT) that currently uses the bolt down LEV lower voltage coils, I want to see if these 2.0T ULEV Higher Voltage coils will work with my setup or not.

Not sure if this is the right thread to be asking but this is the most GOOD information I have found on coils in quite some time :thumbup:

//Edit - I should have known better and checked the FAQ 




_All coils are interchangeable as long as they have the correct number of pins. There are two styles of coils, 3pin (Found on AEB motors, and others of that era) which require external igniter and 4pin (Found on all recent motors 2000+) where the igniter is built into the coil itself. Depending on your engine code some trimming to the coil may be needed to push the coil all the way into the valve cover_.


Hope thats the case because I would love to try these.

-John


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

erevlydeux said:


> Taking any custom orders? I have a few things modeled up in Solidworks that I'd love to have prototypes of.


not yet, but shoot me a PM so I can get your email addy.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

heres an update......

drawing is at machine shop, just waiting on phone call. material being used will be 1/2" thick aluminum plate.

i will have an estimate hopefully by the end of the day. 

just bought:

4X vw part# 06H 905 115 coilpacks. at the dealership they were 25 usd each.

removed the tabs off of one with a pair of pliers and it worked quite well, ill use a razorblade on the rest though as theres a small amount of stub left.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

05GTIMarine said:


> heres an update......
> 
> drawing is at machine shop, just waiting on phone call. material being used will be 1/2" thick aluminum plate.
> 
> ...



What is the difference between Audi P/N - 07K 905 715F and the VW P/N - 06H 905 115

Or are they both the same $15.37 for either on 1st vw parts.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

ejg3855 said:


> What is the difference between Audi P/N - 07K 905 715F and the VW P/N - 06H 905 115
> 
> Or are they both the same $15.37 for either on 1st vw parts.


i dont know the difference. id have to see a picture.
as for the price i know i can find them cheaper. vw is less than a mile away from me and machine shop is 1 1/2 miles away  pittsfield mass is where alot of military specialty parts are made, we have a huge general dynamics plant along with ge and alot of custom tooling. im really blessed to have all this available. 

another update. just priced out hardware  just waiting on the dang machinist.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

05GTIMarine said:


> i dont know the difference. id have to see a picture.
> as for the price i know i can find them cheaper. .


I can get them at cost from the dealer for $14. So if you can find them for less do it up.

I have a shop at work, I just either 1. need to remember how to program or 2. get one of our tool makers to spin these up for me.

Either way shop labor rate is going to be wholly based upon QTY, I would be your at $100 for the 4.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

ejg3855 said:


> I can get them at cost from the dealer for $14. So if you can find them for less do it up.
> 
> I have a shop at work, I just either 1. need to remember how to program or 2. get one of our tool makers to spin these up for me.
> 
> Either way shop labor rate is going to be wholly based upon QTY, I would be your at $100 for the 4.


dunno yet. hopefully that or less. well worth it considering other kits are almost 5-600 dollars


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

05GTIMarine said:


> dunno yet. hopefully that or less. well worth it considering other kits are almost 5-600 dollars


I agree, I would also bet that if you asked them to make you 100 of them they would be about $5 a piece.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

why stainless?

AL is cheaper, easier to machine, looks just as sexy if done right.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

05GTiMarine: Thanks for following up and verifying this, that I am not hallucinating 



I think the 07k part # is an updated mk6 2.0T coil. Could be a MKV coil as well? Can someone figure this out?


I know my 07k's are fine with a .041-.042 gap at 20+psi out of my k03s. Not a single misfire on BKR7E plugs!


The car is just plain stronger all over. Is it not such an awesome bang for the buck mod? :beer: :thumbup:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i wanna see someone with a 3071 and bigger try this with a gap we use in these setups like a .025 and so on. see if there is a difference. i want a longterm test before buyin new coils. cos i don't lose the R's all that often, ****..only 3 in 3 years of BT daily driving


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Yeah, but the misfires light enough to not trigger a count increment will still leave residual gas to **** up your oil.

My oil does not have a hint of gas odor anymore either. This is a bonus on MULTIPLE levels!

I can dump them into my 3071R that I used to own which is still in my driveway, but can't drive it anywhere :| Damn it.


Anyone local to Baltimore with a BT car, we can put them in your car for a while and data log?

Totally down.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

05GTIMarine I believe your coils are bosch, that symbol near the part # is bosch IIRC.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

do we have dimensions yet?


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

ejg3855 said:


> do we have dimensions yet?


yes i have dimensions.

fasteners
M6x35mm if your not going ot use the ecs holddowns i have M6x25 as well.
washers 
M6

distance between bolt holes
76mm

bolt hole diameter
6mm < may change this to 6.5 or 7 so that the bolts fit a lil easier and will compensate for heat expansion.

coilpack diameter
32mm

taperfrom base to coilpack
57mm - 37mm


i havent decided weher it will be a concave or a straight angle taper yet though.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

05GTiMarine said:


> if i had a spark tester then id have all the info for you guys however i dont. i made phone calls to the following with the following responses:
> 
> Bosch: we do not have any data for any of the coil product numbers that you have given us.
> VW: we do not have any information on the ignition system components you mentioned.
> ...


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

so besides fitment (which isn't bad at all) there is no negatives to doing this?

Someone mentioned possibly raised EGTs ? any input?


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

dknl said:


> so besides fitment (which isn't bad at all) there is no negatives to doing this?
> 
> Someone mentioned possibly raised EGTs ? any input?


Increased voltage will reduce the life of the coil (which is why the lower voltage 1.8T "E" coils last forever), but I don't know how much of an impact it actually has.

05GTIMarine, I appreciate what you're doing but don't let it sidetrack or dominate this thread, which is focused on the 2.0T coils themselves


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

agreed..i just wanna know if they are an improvement overall..performance, longevity,etc.

take the fabricationa dn such to a different thread. i can fab myself so i just wanna know if these coisl are legit for us.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Subscribed


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Great thread. I don't have access to ETKA but has anyone check aross all 2.0t variants (A4/Q5/Tig), all coils are the same length? I'm in the market for a set of coils, I may have to jump on the bandwagon. If all the 2.0t are designed this way I be interested in a set of holddowns for them.

Its been awhile but I recall not being able to run more than .34/.36 gap on my k03s @ 20psi BKRE6 on R coils.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

stronger doesn't mean anything if they have the same issues on a higher output car with a higher rev limit and requiring more from the coil.


all i see is chipped cars...i wanna see usage, and some datalogs from some BT guys...after a week or two and some serious beatings.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Vegeta Gti said:


> stronger doesn't mean anything if they have the same issues on a higher output car with a higher rev limit and requiring more from the coil.
> 
> 
> all i see is chipped cars...i wanna see usage, and some datalogs from some BT guys...after a week or two and some serious beatings.


But why?? Ed made 90,000,000 whp on STOCK pushdowns.. No need for ANY more research.. STOP THE PRESS... End thread/ 

Lol!


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

meeooww:wave:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

1.8t neevvaar loossee


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## MKllllvr28 (Sep 15, 2005)

be calm gentlemen. for the sake of good information in this thread. eace:


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

nice.....

this thread just went down the sh1tt3r


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

dknl said:


> nice.....
> 
> this thread just went down the sh1tt3r


sorry ill be quiet. have horrible issues holding my temper


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

it's cleaned up


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

anyways i plan on having these coils until they die. ill keep everyone posted. as for the plates my buddy and i are going to have two of the four sets and as i said monday i will let you know what they want to charge me for the machining. if there are extra sets you guys who want to try this can have them at cost. until then its 1am and im stupid tired


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

I will probably buy an FSI coil and test it, if it is more powerful, we will offer the adapter plates. I'm getting ready to do another round of power testing on our engine dyne mule anyways. :thumbup:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

ty pete :]


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

> But why?? Ed made 90,000,000 whp on STOCK pushdowns.. No need for ANY more research.. STOP THE PRESS... End thread/
> 
> Lol!



Yeah, I


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

PS whoever gets this thread locked, and we have to do this over......... I will find you and flip one of my daughters dirty diapers inside out to leave on your doorstep. :beer:


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## joker5k1 (Aug 13, 2008)

Working with transformers all day long I can tell you that longevity has to deal with design. If these are indeed a better design the increased voltage will be from a better "turns ratio" you aren't over driving the coil, honestly if you would like to increase the life of the coil using a phenolic spacer for the hold downs to isolate them from the heat emitted by the rest of the engine would go a long way. I might add, also from day to day experience that using an electrical grade phenolic "slanged glastic" will only run about $20, for more than enough material to do a set of spacers. The machining part is still going to be the most expensive though

Back to the original topic, I plan on upgrading to these when my coils crap out next, I think this will prove to be one of the best OEM+ upgrades to date.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

joker your idea sounds great and i talked to the engineer and using the electrical grade phonelic was going ot be far more expensive. thus the reason im having the first set made out of aluminum. ive worked with phonelic blocks my whole aviation career and i personally love them. and im sure that i will probably just call the machinist and cancel my idea and just wait it out until integrated comes out with their kit. oh well another idea down the drain.


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## joker5k1 (Aug 13, 2008)

Phenolic is very hard to machine, so I can understand the price difference. I am looking forward to real world results with these coils. As I said before my post is based on what I have gained from my job, there are always variations in anything manufactured. Another inexpensive alternative until one of our vendors picks up producing them was the hold downs I believe 05gti posted somewhere earlier in the thread. Stagnant air has amazing insulation properties. 

As I said before I am really excited to see some real world testing of these, it seems like sometime the old school methods still have their uses


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

joker5k1 said:


> Phenolic is very hard to machine, so I can understand the price difference. I am looking forward to real world results with these coils. As I said before my post is based on what I have gained from my job, there are always variations in anything manufactured. Another inexpensive alternative until one of our vendors picks up producing them was the hold downs I believe 05gti posted somewhere earlier in the thread. Stagnant air has amazing insulation properties.
> 
> As I said before I am really excited to see some real world testing of these, it seems like sometime the old school methods still have their uses


Yeah im using hold downs now. ill repost the pics i took down.

















all the hardware was picked up at fastenal. only fitment issue is that one ring is all that goes into the hole and theres no seal. if the seal was longer then this could be a final solution but its not. my buddy and i thought of every possible way to create an item and drew up maybe 30 sketches of different ideas. and the plate with rubberized coating on the bottom won. the machine shop is calling me back monday with cost to make one set and i will tell him i need 2 as my buddy with his awm a4 wants a set as well. he wont even drive his car cause he hates how it runs with the stock coilpacks. anyways the reason i asked to do a group buy was to hopefully offset costs a little as you can easily get 4 sets (16 pieces) our of a 1' x1' piece of 1/2" thick aluminum. and 1x1x1/2 piece of aluminum is approx 60 bucks. so that alone brings it to 15 dollars a set in material costs. if he charges me 100 bucks labor then that brings it to 40 dollars a set. and hardware is only like 4 bucs so we are looking at 45-50 bucks for a set. i do not intend to profit off these first sets as we are just testing these out, i merely do not want this test to go bad because they were not properly installed into a vehicle.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

erevlydeux said:


> Alright dude, we get it.  We're trying to keep this thread on the course of "are the coils themselves more powerful than the OEM 1.8T coils?"


and that has already been answered multiple times. its a matter of finding the numbers which i will spend all day every day next week finding out the actual output.


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

More cross reference part numbers:


```
[u]Manufacturer 	Part Number[/u]
VAG		06E 905 115 E
Beru 		0040102032 
Beru 		ZSE032 
Bosch 		0 221 604 119 
Delphi 		23260 
Fuel Parts 	CU1157 
Intermotor 	12821 
Lucas 		DMB946 
Meat & Doria 	10373 
TRW 		DMB946
```


```
[u]Manufacturer 	Part Number[/u]
VAG		07K 905 715 F
Bremi 		20120 
Fuel Parts 	CU1161 
Intermotor 	12783 
Lucas 		DMB908 
Meat & Doria 	10499 
S.I.D.A.T. Srl 	8530125
```


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

sick how did you get the scroll boxes in there lol


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

So are these getting a hotter spark or not?? 

I hear speculation but no definitive answer. Is there a way to test the coilpack itself with a multimeter or something of that nature to see any differences? (I'm not big on the electronics speak)


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> So are these getting a hotter spark or not??
> 
> I hear speculation but no definitive answer. Is there a way to test the coilpack itself with a multimeter or something of that nature to see any differences? (I'm not big on the electronics speak)


we havent gotten any answers on output yet from the companies that make them. i am as well as others are working on testing them. they have been in my car for 3 days now. ill keep letting you guys know whats going on with my progress.' pete at ie will be putting a set on his dyno mule and run logs to see if they help. and my buddie will be doing his install this week when we get our plates. so that will be 4 sets as far as i know that will be in vehicles, 3 of wich are on the road. id like to see more at least try it. i drove around for about 5 hours last night beating the piss outta my car givin kids rides that wanted to see my car and no issues. only time will tell.


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## LGDUBR (Mar 13, 2007)

Subsrcibed  BTW I'd totally be in for that group buy if it goes down for the adapter plates.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

They are absolutely hotter, that is not even a question at all. The question is how much and how far can they be pushed. .041-.042 gap in my 20-25psi stock turbo car and no blowout, misfires nothing. Just a much smoother quicker car. You stab the throttle an it just goes. 

.041-.042 on a k03 @ 20-25psi is different than a 5857 @ 20-25psi. Your cylinder pressures are much higher with a turbo that flows more volume.


I agree that will be the test, however if they are better on a stock application to a degree, they are guaranteed to be marginally better on a BT as well. Same principle behind each.


Now we need to know the 06E and 07K differences are. 


I'm actually thinking of cracking my gap up to .050 just because to see if i get blowout on this stock turbo high mileage jetta. 

My 3071R car is not mine anymore, and my AEB is not quite 5857'd yet. I have no way to test them in a real power application.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

might need to pick up 2 sets


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

theswoleguy said:


> might need to pick up 2 sets


so your gonna be the fourth to hop this adventure???


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## joker5k1 (Aug 13, 2008)

To get some more background info on these coils I'm having my friend look into them on alldata. If nothing else this should tell us what if any tsb's forced the revisions. If we're really lucky it'll give us the output voltages, and a full run down on the coils. We know it's creating a hotter spark, but I'm sure knowing just how much hotter would be fun.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

so what is the exact part # we are looking at here if i went to the dealer and tol my buddy to get me 4 coils?


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## JWoody (May 17, 2006)

I'm game to run these on my FrankenTurbo setup. Someone shoot me a part number...

-J


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

It's been mentioned many times in this thread already...

Mk5: 06E 905 115 E (red)









Mk5: 07K 905 715 F (black)









Mk5/6: 06H 905 115 (black)


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Look here you mofo..I am fuct up on all sorts of stupid drugs...I am not soaking some stuff up currently!! Gimmie a break!! Lol

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Vegeta Gti said:


> Look here you mofo..I am fuct up on all sorts of stupid drugs...I am not soaking some stuff up currently!! Gimmie a break!! Lol
> 
> Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk


Pass that schizz breh...


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Vegeta Gti said:


> Look here you mofo..I am fuct up on all sorts of stupid drugs...I am not soaking some stuff up currently!! Gimmie a break!! Lol
> 
> Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk


the coils im using 

PN# 06h 905 115

they are 25 bucks a pop at the dealer. they are for the 2010 vw gti 2.0t


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

sweeettt... thanx. will be grabbin some next week. i wanna do some logs and video of without, then..put them in for the first time on side of road, and log with em.

how about i give you my injuries!! and i keep the pills!! when u gonna come cruise in da islands man?? we got a spare room.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

05GTIMarine said:


> so your gonna be the fourth to hop this adventure???


ya i will try them in a couple weeks, need to get the TT running again.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Hope on it! Skip the gym, 1.8T > *


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## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

Just placed an order for 4x of the red style coils. Will post back with results :thumbup:


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

gdoggmoney said:


> Hope on it! Skip the gym, 1.8T > *


lol. gdogg can you take some pics with your f rev coils. i want to see if theres any difference with my 06H coilpacks. i know the alignment stubs are attached to the shaft on those but want to see overall. 
stock left and mk6 2.0t right









part number 06H-905-115

the mk6 seems to be heavy duty. i has a solid metal case all the way down to the chrome plug collar. also the aligmnemt tabs are not attached to the shaft, only the underide of the top lip ( they come off with a set of pliers super easy. im still making phone calls to no avail all day as being unemployed helps with all the downtime. 

post pics of the coils you all use and all data pls. thanks everyone


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I'll snag some when I get home. Im at work now. I'd like to trade for your unemployment, except with my paycheck :|


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

so would i


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

is there a set to be better anyone think?

MK5 black
MK5 Red (surely just a color code)

MK6?


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

gdoggmoney said:


> I'll snag some when I get home. Im at work now. I'd like to trade for your unemployment, except with my paycheck :|


lol i have a month left then i need to make at least 600 dollars a month to pay for the mk6 gti. i make 460 a week atm. not enough to cover my military pay i was making. oh well. anyway no answer back from machine shop today maybe tomorow

and once again phone calls all day and no one has answers. they ask me what they are and they make phone calls and get back to me wiht the same answer.

" we are sorry we have no output information for you at this time"

i would assume that the mk6 are better they have a thich metal case and such compared to the flimsy metal material in the past versions. we will have to see. anyone one know the length differences fromt eh mk5 to 6


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

Gotta tell the shop to get those plates done so I can install mine. Plus you need to buy hold down so I could install mine. No rush as I'm going to be driving this a6 till at least saturday.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Brightgolf said:


> Gotta tell the shop to get those plates done so I can install mine. Plus you need to buy hold down so I could install mine. No rush as I'm going to be driving this a6 till at least saturday.


i know man i probably wont run hold downs. i have the shorter bolts for that. your getting the bolts currently in my car. i can also go get more if needed they have 25,30,35,40mm lengths yours will use 35mm as mine will use 25mm. with the plate being 1/2 inch that leaces a 1/2" of meat to grab




theswoleguy said:


> is there a set to be better anyone think?
> 
> MK5 black
> MK5 Red (surely just a color code)
> ...



we wont know until we test them for a prolonged period of time. theres alot of testing needed to be done. if i had a dyno this is what i would do.

test stock to its fullest. including different plug gaps. 
repeat for mk5 and mk6 coilpacks. the testing tool to see how much power the coilpack has determines the strength by distance. 

heres how its done. you start with a small gap. see if it sparks
lengthen the gap and repeat.
you do that until it wont spark and you back up very slowly until it registers a spark again. 

you then read the tool and it should tell you how strong the coil is. 

NOTE: 
i would have done all this but i dont have money to spend on all the tools necessary to test the coilpacks. ill leave that to [email protected] as he said he will be running his test mule and showing the results.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

erevlydeux said:


> Did you actually measure the hole depth for the mounting bolts?
> 
> The ECS hold downs bolts are 16mm, of which ~11mm is actually in the hole. (~4mm hold down thickness + ~1+mm washer) Your spacers being 1/2 inch thick means you need atleast 13mm to go through the spacer, as well as 11mm, putting your set of 25mm at a nice sweet spot if you don't plan to run the hold downs. If you plan to run the hold downs, though, a length of 35mm adds an extra 6mm in the hole, 5mm if you run the washer that the hold downs come with. Seems like a lot of extra length to be adding... I can't picture those holes are super long.
> 
> ...



the engine will run as if it was misfiring. but you should bstill get full spark to that cylinder.

my budget is tighter than an engine mount on a harrier. it barely allows for me to spend anything on my baby. 100 dollars here 100 dollars there. and as far as the bolts. i have multiple sets and can get more easily from fastenal down the street. i have 35m installed with the hold downs right now.


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## bigivn (Mar 6, 2011)

Subscribed


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

erevlydeux said:


> Interesting. Good to know the holes are that deep.


lol


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

erevlydeux said:


> Interesting. Good to know the holes are that deep.


well that is with the 1/2-3/4 alumminum tube as well to take the place of the plate that wil be there. ill stop by fastenal and get the 30mm as well just in case. they are 30cents a bolt so no biggie. i already have 100 washers lol. 

better yet ill take the 35 screw it in as far as i ican and measure.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

*UPDATE*......
as of right now no plates are being made. the machine shop was trying to Fu ck me in the a$$ with no lube. 

price for one plate is duh duh duh 

71 Fu cking dollars

material costs were 5 dollars each and they wouldnt tell me the rest. they simply said
" thats the price you pay for custom pieces"

other than that ran them at lebanon valley dragway tonight and they help up amazingly. even though i myself sucked as it was my first time to a drag strip. 14.8 sec 1/4 mile. 

now its time to figure out how to manufacture the plats on the cheap. 

drill bits and a band saw ???? lol


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I broke an axle doing 25psi highway pulls, thought my dash was going to jump out the car. Still no coil pop up problems. Im sure as they age they will fit looser and require hold downs.

Meh, nice idea but lets face it. We are cheap VW people. Just run them as is and bend some cheap metal, drill holes, bam hold downs.


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## bigivn (Mar 6, 2011)

Interested if they will fit my 01 Audi 1.8T. Thanks


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

You guys are getting nuts with stuff that costs as much as the coils. Don't overdo it.

Simple, cheap, effective. Cheap hold downs + proper valve cover.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

bigivn said:


> Interested if they will fit my 01 Audi 1.8T. Thanks


Start at page 1, continue reading until here.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

ejg3855 said:


> Either way shop labor rate is going to be wholly based upon QTY, I would be your at $100 for the 4.





05GTIMarine said:


> *UPDATE*......
> as of right now no plates are being made. the machine shop was trying to Fu ck me in the a$$ with no lube.
> 
> price for one plate is duh duh duh
> ...



Seems like 2 pages ago, I mentioned the lack of cheapness for 1 set.

I am def in for a group buy at 10 people value of $36.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

ejg3855 said:


> Seems like 2 pages ago, I mentioned the lack of cheapness for 1 set.
> 
> I am def in for a group buy at 10 people value of $36.


and for multiple sets they just multiplied 71 x the number of plates. and they were thinking that i would not understand how machining costs affect product cost, but at 71 dollars a plate jeesh. 

heres what i figure. 

material costs for one set: 20 dollars

for a 1'x1'x1/2" piece of aluminum its roughly 60 bucks and you can get about 16 plates of that much material. 1x2 is 100 dollars and so on. the bigger piece of aluminum you get the cheaper the cost.

designing and programming
50 bucks as it is a simple design and simply takes minutes

bit wear and replacement 
? as i do not know tooling but i would imagine pretty cheap as they use one bit for quite a while.

profit. alot seeing as they wanted to charge me 71 dollars for each piece and wouldnt budge when i told them that i knew how much it cost for the material. he tried teling me it cost 60 dollars for one piece of aluminum lol


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

05GTIMarine said:


> and for multiple sets they just multiplied 71 x the number of plates. and they were thinking that i would not understand how machining costs affect product cost, but at 71 dollars a plate jeesh.
> 
> heres what i figure.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your effort but you don't have the concept quite down here.

That 1' x 1' piece of aluminum is sub $20 at any good shop.

The programming and setup time is prolly 1hr at most typical shop rates vary from $65-$150/hr.

Tooling for this job would be simple, fixturing could prolly be done in a vice.

What you are forgetting is that its a cheap job to do yes, but if that machinist and his machine could be making complex parts for another customer at a much higher $/hr rate than what you are asking him to do. So he is going to make up some of that lost time and pass the $ along to you.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

you could always check out emachineshop.com


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

do you know the distance on center for the screw holes ?


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## 24Vjrod1.8T (Dec 24, 2009)

ejg3855 said:


> Seems like 2 pages ago, I mentioned the lack of cheapness for 1 set.
> 
> I am def in for a group buy at 10 people value of $36.


I'm down for this as well. :thumbup:


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

ejg3855 said:


> do you know the distance on center for the screw holes ?


yep 4" or 76mm

ive decided to wait until erevlydeux comes out with his as i dont want to step on someones toes when we as a whole want the cheapest solution without having to buy from a company that solely looks at profit. if we get 10, 36 bucks is a steal. ive already put down that ill take 2 for myself and my buddies a4. so thats 4 or 5 so far. need 4 or 5 more and hopefully we will have a solution.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

theres the image. 
priced out for a lot of 40 which is 10 sets and alowing 25 days of lead would come out to about 31 dollars a set not including the 4 dollars in hardware. so 35 dollars altogether without shipping.


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## 24Vjrod1.8T (Dec 24, 2009)

05GTIMarine said:


> theres the image.
> priced out for a lot of 40 which is 10 sets and alowing 25 days of lead would come out to about 31 dollars a set not including the 4 dollars in hardware. so 35 dollars altogether without shipping.


I am in for 1 set. PM me if this happens.


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

i'd take a set


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

05GTIMarine said:


> theres the image.
> priced out for a lot of 40 which is 10 sets and alowing 25 days of lead would come out to about 31 dollars a set not including the 4 dollars in hardware. so 35 dollars altogether without shipping.


I bet if you take out that chamfer operation it would get reduced another few dollars.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

erevlydeux said:


> Just because I'm wary of the moderators deleting a separate thread specific to all this purchasing/group buy stuf... who do we have on the lineup for people interested in spacers in general? This is not specific to me, or 05GTIMarine... we've both been talking and are working to collaborate more than anything.
> 
> List so far:
> - me
> ...


add brightgolf as im buying his set for him. and i drew it up on emachineshop.com to verify prices. and the chamfer did not affect pricing at all. you want the chamfer in there so that you can get the coilpack in smoothly. and the rounded edges clean it up compared to the 034 set with has excess material and looks like they through the idea together in 5 min. we are up to 8 i believe. 

If you are interested. pls put your area code in with it so that we can get an idea on shipping pls


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

yeah i'm down..sorry lol

96706 son


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

hawaii dude


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

erevlydeux said:


> Shipping is a flat rate the way I'd do it. $5 in the continental U.S. $10 to Canada.
> 
> As far as the chamfer, I just wouldn't bother with it on the outer edge with that design... mostly because I think it'd gonna look poopy because they'll never be able to keep that crisp wing/circular edge with the chamfer. I have to make some adjustments then I'll post up a picture of what I have in mind.



good to go. and once again i did it because you recommended it as well as another and i wanted to see what 8mb of cad programming could do. im def gonna wait for yours and ill be in touch with you.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

as of right now 

List so far:
- erevlydeux
- 05GTIMarine
- dknl
- LGDUBR
- bigivn
- 24Vjrod1.8T
- nofearhawk
- brightgolf
- vegeta gti


thats 9 boys and girls just need one more or hell lets get 20 if we can. any more interested in these.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

you can add me to the list if you dont mind


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

List so far:
- erevlydeux
- 05GTIMarine
- dknl
- LGDUBR
- bigivn
- 24Vjrod1.8T
- nofearhawk
- cincytt
- brightgolf
- vegeta gti

we have 10 . is there any more of you out there that would like a set. the more that are in the less the cost.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

I'll go in on a set.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Im in. 

:wave:


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

Bump ....Toby builds some great stuff. Hey hit me up when these are done...will take em for a test run on my daily.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

lookin good, just let me know when you need some money sent your way.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

brightgolf and i are backing out as these are not what we want.

problems:

1. they will not allow fitment of the ecs hold downs we already have as with others. 
2. the notches will not allow the proper seal as this is the main goal of the plate in the first place.
3. your making 30 dollar profit on test plates. per set. so 3-400 dollars on a run. what happened to at cost. i already got flamed for ppl thinking i was trying to make a profit. 
4. they look like **** and poorly planed. 


theres no positive as these wont work and wont seal. 


im going back to the drawing board and redesigning them to:
fully seal the coilpack
ensure that they accept ecs hold downs
and are strong enough to hold up to constant heat changes.

40 plates = 10 sets at approx 7-8 dollars a plate your looking at 32 dollars a set of plates and 4-6 dollars in hardware. then add shipping and we will probably be at around 40-45 dollars/set.

there will be no profit on my side as i will pay what you are paying for the same product the more we get the cheaper it will be. i will even provide all documentation to reassure you that i am not making any profit. this section of the forum is not meant to make money. if you want to make a profit go post in the classifieds.


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

I said yes to 35$ not 70+$. 

Im out.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

ah yes the drama begins.

:thumbdown:


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## bigivn (Mar 6, 2011)

I will go with Marine. Make sense and $70 is a bit high.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Instead why don't we focus on I don't know, the actual coilpacks and spark plug gap? Instead of machining little adapters that are not absolutely necessary if you swap your valve cover. 

Or if you flatten, bend and drill some metal then toss in some material to be a phenolic spacer, DIY coilhold downs for like 10$.

:banghead:


----------



## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

gdoggmoney said:


> Instead why don't we focus on I don't know, the actual coilpacks and spark plug gap? Instead of machining little adapters that are not absolutely necessary if you swap your valve cover.
> 
> Or if you flatten, bend and drill some metal then toss in some material to be a phenolic spacer, DIY coilhold downs for like 10$.
> 
> :banghead:


*PLEASE* FFS this thread is for technical information on testing new ignition coils and spark, not a group by on 40 different designs on coilpack hold downs.

To get the thread back on track mine are on the truck to me now, I have some brand new plugs pregapped to .040 and will be putting everything in after work today. This will be on a 2001 Audi TT AMU.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Malant said:


> *PLEASE* FFS this thread is for technical information on testing new ignition coils and spark, not a group by on 40 different designs on coilpack hold downs.
> 
> To get the thread back on track mine are on the truck to me now, I have some brand new plugs pregapped to .040 and will be putting everything in after work today. This will be on a 2001 Audi TT AMU.


i understand that and i will be making a thread corresponding to this one so that i can offer to those wanting to test the coilpacks, and have them secured to the valvcover properly. 

sorry for causing "drama"


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

yeah, I'm not seeing all the issue here about needing spacers... Toby does make great stuff, I'll give him that.

What I will say though is, if you want a spacer to seal the difference in height and use the hold downs. It would cost roughly $50-$100 to have the valve cover modified, as in weld spacers on and grind it down to look OEM.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Relax, nobody is butthurt over it, but lets just keep this on track before it is 5-6 pages of spacers and arguing then the meat and information is scattered between.


----------



## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

There is another thread started for this now. Thank you, its just tough trying to look through everything for the good technical information when you have to scroll through quoted pictures and drawings and differences in pricing etc. 

Has anyone tested beyond .40? I will be stepping up this weekend until I find a "limit" APR 93 file on a not so big turbo (ko4-023)


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I wanted to but I tore my jetta apart for a new un-bent subframe, and then all sorts of stupid drama and it is still apart. 

Meh. :banghead:


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

heres the link to the new thread.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5297680-1.8t-to-2.0t-Coil-pack-Conversion-Adapter-plates.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

A gap tester is not going to do much. pop a pack out, throw a dead plug in the cyl with no plug. Pop the injector harness to not wash gas into your oil and your bores........


Ground plug end, look at pretty spark. Expand gap until it stops sparking?

To get voltage we need equipment. I'm down to order it, but i've been a little busy with cars, work and kids to seek that. I asked for a link earlier, but nobody provided. 

meh.

:beer:


/* Edit */ So busy that i have supposed to been sending my manifold and dump tube t pagparts for 2 weeks to fab my Audi v-band 5857 kit. I still have not.

That also holds up the pagparts kit for my 02 1.8T Jetta...........

yeah I am that busy I can't get my stuff out to finish what I want.


----------



## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

Installed last night, spark plugs gapped to .040, not a single misfire on my ko4-02x. Going to keep stepping it up and play with it some more on Monday.

Car idles better, not sure if I can tell a difference in throttle response as I have put a new chip, turbo inlet pipe etc on the car this week so it just feels great all around.

These really do work!!


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i'm still not sold completely..i ran my car @26psi last nite with the new tune and it's just fine.

and i have alot more goin on than most BT cars let alone stock turbo modified cars...2 of my coils are 7 or 8 years old, one is 2 years old and one is 4 months old


----------



## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

Mine make my idle so much better (I have all stiff ass mounts) and the motor itself is peppier (before the turbo picks up). Acceleration is a lot smoother and I got rid of a vibration I'd usually get during hard acceleration. Definitely worth it to me at least.


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Why the hell not I says... For the price of admission im surprised this hasnt been done before


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Vegeta Gti said:


> i'm still not sold completely..i ran my car @26psi last nite with the new tune and it's just fine.
> 
> and i have alot more goin on than most BT cars let alone stock turbo modified cars...2 of my coils are 7 or 8 years old, one is 2 years old and one is 4 months old


it looks like its time for you to update all your coils so they are the same age. just do it. they are only 108 max from the dealership and you can be the only one with a big turbo setup.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Vegeta Gti said:


> i'm still not sold completely..i ran my car @26psi last nite with the new tune and it's just fine.
> 
> and i have alot more goin on than most BT cars let alone stock turbo modified cars...2 of my coils are 7 or 8 years old, one is 2 years old and one is 4 months old


All the cool kids are doing it. Come on, take a hit.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

erevlydeux said:


> Do we have the part numbers for the MK6 2.0T coils? ECS doesn't even list any coilpacks for any of the MK VI cars. I wanted to grab one to compare to the MKV coilpacks.
> 
> p.s. You should update your original post with all the part numbers, etc. Digging through the 6 pages is a pain in the ass.  That, or groggory should make an FAQ/edit his FAQ if he already has one.


ive listed it multiple times.

06H-905-115

they are solid pieces no heat shield. i just installed mine on brightgolfs audi a4 so he can aleviate ignition issues. my car currently has my stock coils.


all i can say is that he has a huge grin on his face whenever i see him. his ignitoin problems are gone, on stock gap. we are going ot extend the gap to .042 when he gets out of work today hopefully. we will see.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Makes you wonder how many people have given up on these cars due to ignition issues, and FWD frustration.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

gdoggmoney said:


> Makes you wonder how many people have given up on these cars due to ignition issues, and FWD frustration.


TT resolves the Fail Wheel Drive, and I put the 07K coils on one of the TT's but its been pouring so haven't really pushed it.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I'll edit the first post tonight if I get time, if not in the next day or two. I need to get my jetta back together and give the wife her subaru back.

I'd drive a TT, but for big power i'm sketch on haldex. 

I bought an A4 1.8TQ for that reason.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

erevlydeux said:


> Where did you grab this from? It's not listed on any VW parts site. Suppose it could just be an issue with parts not being stocked yet from anywhere but dealers... but still curious.












sry for my typo i was taking it off of memory and messed up.

06H-905-115


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

gdoggmoney said:


> I'll edit the first post tonight if I get time, if not in the next day or two. I need to get my jetta back together and give the wife her subaru back.
> 
> I'd drive a TT, but for big power i'm sketch on haldex.
> 
> I bought an A4 1.8TQ for that reason.


haldex can hold quite a bit as r32 run the same haldex and they are pushing 5-600 awhp out there. you should get the haldex controller and adjust it to true 50/50 or 40/60 first. then start pushing the power up  thats what i would do:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

Lol haldex is junk compared to quattro. I love my a4 in the snow. I called my tuner up back in the winter during a hue snow storm and the guy said "I could barely make it up the hill to the shop in my tt with four studded snows, theres no way you'll make it up." I drove up the hill no problem and into the garage with almost 2 feet of snow on the ground and the dude damn near **** himself when he saw I just had all seasons on.


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

the NEW haldex is much much better..gen3 is gonna take alot more power and better control/responce.

money is tight or i'd buy a set..but the dealer down here..wants $64 each..sooo, no thanks


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Vegeta Gti said:


> the NEW haldex is much much better..gen3 is gonna take alot more power and better control/responce.
> 
> money is tight or i'd buy a set..but the dealer down here..wants $64 each..sooo, no thanks


theres no fing way. 06H 905 115 are 25 bucks at every dealership ive called. call his bluff and ask to see the invoice. i sold mine to brightgolf as he is my room mate to get cash to fund more research. 


MK6 coilpacks once again are p# 06H 905 115. theres nor revisions yet as these are the newest coilpacks out there.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

do you live in hawaii??

i went done there..this is typical man, their prices here are completely insane...i go tmy wholesale guy looking into his price..he gets wholesale pricesx100 lol

last time i bought an R coil...well the one...it was like $75 bucks dude... it's just how it is here labor rate is $130 or something..completely insane


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i appreciate it..waitin for my buddy to get back to me..it takes him forever to return calls/text..but next day free delivery and shipping rules once he orders lol

i am not gonna enjoy trying to figure out gap for this **** btw...i run .024 currently and it runs beautifully.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

I'd buy you some coils and mail them to you but I'm in Canada. Someone send him some coils, there is no need to be ripped off by the stealership!


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

that was the plan..but i won't be doin repeated remove and install on a hot head. i'll wait tilli have coils and a coupe sets of plugs with diff gaps, as i am also running colder plugs as well.

.030 def sound slike a good middle ground and have a set at .028 and .032...then of course my current setup...try each at 14psi..19psi and 26psi and see how she goes for a day each, unless issues occur

list of my mods for those who are interested:

worked AEB head(details with held)
cat 3651 cams
AWP block
IE rods
ARP hardware( head bolts, flywheel, fasteners,etc)
stock pistons with new rings
SEM amnifold port matched
80mm tb
treadstone manifold port matched
gt3071r .63
630cc
unitronic freshly updated software
02J TDi trans with peloquin

1984 Jetta GLi

so i will have considerably more oomph than most here to put these guys to the test with, i hope it proves something...once they are dialed and if there is a difference in reliability and such..it own't be shown for a looongg ass time...months and months down the road, considering i have A series coils still kicking...power diff should be immediate...if i can..and i have the setup for the 2.0 coils dialed..i will go back to my 1.8 setup for dyno and do an extra run with the 2.0 setup..all on 92 pump gas


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

so my parts guy just said $50 each...

something isn't right here...how much did you guys say you can get OEM coils for each again?


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

shipping...i usually write an email to peopel asking for usps flat rate..but most won't do it..and anything under 2lbs is usually about $30-40 buck sin shipping from ups or fedex..and it never takes a day either lol

trust me..3.5 years of dealing with this..get old..shipping is lame for us out here...makes me miss the mainland even more 

no tracks..at all...zero..worst roads in the US...highest prices for everything yet worst quality...least pay and highest cost of living..


i can go on.

i thought the MKVI were a touch shorter than the MKV or did i miss read somewhere?


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i'm tryin to get a job..but it seems when i send my resume to people..they don't even look at my address, they get all interested, i get my hope sup then they see i am in hawaii..then they never respond back or don't answer calls.

if someone is serious to hir eme, i would fly in for an interview and move..wife would stay here for awhile,etc.

anyway...i'll pm ya later


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

that is def not it lol i went to school and boston..love the place but wouldn't live there...i have been searching the areas we prefer and some we don't..my wife still refuses to leave her job and get one on the mainland, and i see where she is coming from, but she is most def the bread winner. lol

anyway...back on topic:beer:


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## MKllllvr28 (Sep 15, 2005)

i picked up a set today at the stealership $21 each :thumbup: my cars not running yet but it should be soon  i hope.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

jesus..21 each....thats awesome


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

I put them in our engine dyno mule and just made 820 bhp with a .025" gap. Biggest single feeler gauge I had :laugh:

Idle improved a little bit too.


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## MKllllvr28 (Sep 15, 2005)

was there any power difference between the old coils and the new ones?


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I put them in our engine dyno mule and just made 820 bhp with a .025" gap. Biggest single feeler gauge I had :laugh:
> 
> Idle improved a little bit too.


:thumbup::thumbup:
so your verdict?????


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> I put them in our engine dyno mule and just made 820 bhp with a .025" gap. Biggest single feeler gauge I had :laugh:
> 
> Idle improved a little bit too.



have i told you i love you..k..enough for me..those coils and a .025 gap


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

> I put them in our engine dyno mule and just made 820 bhp with a .025" gap. Biggest single feeler gauge I had
> 
> Idle improved a little bit too.



I actually stacked mine. 

Open that gap! Take it to the limit


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

gdoggmoney said:


> Open that gap! Take it to the limit


Sig material fo sho


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

agreed lol


soo..was tryin to get some in car vid footage..and i dropped a coil....my A series is still good..it was my brand new R..might be two of em. if i had cash i would buy a set of these now..just can't swing it. money is tight


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

@ Chris... Just sell the spare tire out of the wifes M3 to finance ur new coilpacks.. She wont notice


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

gdoggmoney said:


> I actually stacked mine.
> 
> Open that gap! Take it to the limit


That's normally how u use em lol. So get this erevlydeux is being a hater in my other thread. Oh and I brought brightgolfs gap to.042 on his plugs and car runs perfect


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> @ Chris... Just sell the spare tire out of the wifes M3 to finance ur new coilpacks.. She wont notice


no spare!!! baahahaha..just a tire emergency repair kit lol, just like an R32 has:banghead:


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Meh.. Sell that then! Hehe! **** it, hit the blood bank breh.. Heck, the blood bank here pays $40 a pop. Good enough for a $40 rock, or a coilpack.. Which one is a better investment is up to you.. The rock might bring ya up from the meds for a few minutes! Lol!


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Anyone want a good UNIX/Windows security/admin guy while we are dishing out jobs? I hate MD and want to move.

AIX to xenix. I do it.


----------



## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

Mine are at .042 an running awesome. We'll see how she runs with the ko4 when I put it on next week. A lot more power down low before turbo. Also no more black unburnt gas flying out my tail pipes. Damn larger injectors


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Yeah...... complete even combustion. I like the way my car sounds now out of boost and in boost. Very throaty.

I have the jetta running again, and I am moving to .050 gap today. If it misfires or anything I am backing it down to .042 again.


Unless someone gets to it first, should be doing this around 7-8pm ET.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Has anyone installed the red coils or compared them in size to the black ones? My parts guy said they were off the v6 motor. DMVdub said he tried v6 coils and they didn't fit. So I'm wondering if anyone actually installed them. Sorry if I missed it but I want to be sure before I lay out the cash


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Info is in the first post. I put some pictures and told people to buy stuff.







Toolfan:

Stick with the Black MKV 07k part # coils. They are a known working good, are cheap and fit fine on a transverse valve cover. 

Info is in the first post.


----------



## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Has anyone installed the red coils or compared them in size to the black ones? My parts guy said they were off the v6 motor. DMVdub said he tried v6 coils and they didn't fit. So I'm wondering if anyone actually installed them. Sorry if I missed it but I want to be sure before I lay out the cash


I have the red versions installed in my car, gapped to .040, they work great so either version is good to go :thumbup: I have been beating the piss out of my car trying to get it to hiccup and misfire but so far nothing :thumbup:


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

if you're referring to me trying the V6 ones, I'm guessing I mentioned somewhere I tried using the coils from stepbrothers S3... They didn't fit whatsoever, way too sketchy. I don't remember if they were just really long or the harness didn't attach either.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> if you're referring to me trying the V6 ones, I'm guessing I mentioned somewhere I tried using the coils from stepbrothers S3... They didn't fit whatsoever, way too sketchy. I don't remember if they were just really long or the harness didn't attach either.


no one here is using the v6 coils. they make aftermarket 2.0t red coil. you all need to read the full post.


----------



## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

The s3 coils are completely different as they are from a vr6 which is not a V6... I have red V6 coils sitting in the junk pile out back that I havent tried.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

2008 S3 is V6


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> 2008 S3 is V6


i wanna see pics.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

DMVDUB said:


> 2008 S3 is V6


Since they have been using the same motor as a TT and they are still using the 3.2L VR6, im going to doubt this statement.


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

DMVDUB said:


> 2008 S3 is V6


There is a US V6 version of Audi S3 ???


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

We only get the A3 with a 2.0T and 3.2 in a 4 door hatch.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Sorry I meant A3 not S3:banghead: it's a 3.2 V6Q I always call it an S3 for some damn reason.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Not on hand... My stepbrother doesn't live nearby, but next time I'm at his house I check them out. He may have left his old ones in the shop. If I get time to swing by the house in Potomac I'll see if they're in the shop. If not I'll have to wait until I see him next.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> Not on hand... My stepbrother doesn't live nearby, but next time I'm at his house I check them out. He may have left his old ones in the shop. If I get time to swing by the house in Potomac I'll see if they're in the shop. If not I'll have to wait until I see him next.


It's not a v6 it's a 3.2L vr6 it says v6 on the intake manifold FFs but is indeed a vr6 learn your engines


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

I don't want him confusing ppl and having them use the wrong items


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I Don't care if it's VR6 or V6 it's NOT my car it says V6 3.2 it's advertised as a V6 3.2 Don't know why you're bitching...It also says V6 a few places on the damn car. 

I never said to use them, someone mentioned that I said somewhere that I tried them, I don't even remember posting anything about it but whatever they are they didn't work. 

Besides if it was mine I would have purchased the 2.0t but that doesn't matter either.


----------



## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

For what it's worth, the Audi A3 3.2 V6 uses "022 905 715 B" coils:


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

PM me if i drop off and you guys need more info added to the first post.

I went to back out my driveway this morning and a 4 day old chinese DSS brand axle blew apart. Awesome. I'm stuck a bit longer until i can go to .050 , my audi I think has a broken valve spring as well.

Only the jap car is running.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

gdoggmoney said:


> PM me if i drop off and you guys need more info added to the first post.
> 
> I went to back out my driveway this morning and a 4 day old chinese DSS brand axle blew apart. Awesome. I'm stuck a bit longer until i can go to .050 , my audi I think has a broken valve spring as well.
> 
> Only the jap car is running.


sry to hear that. dgogg. what side axle do you need. i can prob get you a used one cheap next week when i pull my jetta parts car apart. lemme know


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I still have the old short axle next to my garage, I am going to reinstall it. It had less play than this new chinese made DSS brand axle, but figured when im doing one i'll do them both. Oh well.

Cheap chinese garbage.

Literally DSS brand not driveshaft shop.

I will have it together tonight. IF your parts car is a 1.8T or VR6 I need a pass wheel bearing housing/steering knuckle. 

I've put a new subframe, new control arms, poly bushings by powerflex, ball joints, wheel bearings, struts and mounts in the car.

Drivers side:

-.4 camber

7.7 caster

0 toe

Pass:

+.4 camber

6.6 caster

0 toe.


HAS to be the steering knuckle. The strut tower and unibody look fine, no evidence of paintwork, cracking or any accident damage. Paint is in tact on fender bolts, all gaps are fine....


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

gdoggmoney said:


> I still have the old short axle next to my garage, I am going to reinstall it. It had less play than this new chinese made DSS brand axle, but figured when im doing one i'll do them both. Oh well.
> 
> Cheap chinese garbage.
> 
> ...


 when i get up there next week ill get that for ya. send me a pm


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## Zealot (Mar 9, 2003)

05GTIMarine said:


> It's not a v6 it's a 3.2L vr6 it says v6 on the intake manifold FFs but is indeed a vr6 learn your engines


Get over yourself, a VR6 is still a V6. It's just a specific type of V6.


----------



## Zealot (Mar 9, 2003)

05GTIMarine said:


> thanks for the peptalk. in the vw/audi world a v6 is of the 90deg origin and a vr is in the 30 deg origin. true its still a v6 its build totally different and use different parts. when it comes to coilpacks, they are different.
> 
> vr6 vertical plug mount
> v6 use bolt down and pushdowns and they have a horizontal plug


I'm quite aware of the differences with regard to VWs and Audis, but your comments are unnecessary within the scope of this topic. If someone were to go to a dealer and ask for coilpacks for a Audi A3 V6, they would get the exact same coilpacks as they would if they asked for Audi A3 VR6 coilpacks. There is no chance for confusion or wrong parts because only one type was available in the A3.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Sorry I didn't mean to open a can of worms. Yes I know the info is in the first thread. My parts broker said they were from a v6, he is rarely wrong. Was just trying to get some clarification. Anyway, I don't care where they are from just as long as they fit and people are running them so I will be ordering a set as well in the near future. :heart:


----------



## turboistheanswertocancer (Feb 25, 2011)

05GTIMarine said:


> thanks for the peptalk. in the vw/audi world a v6 is of the 90deg origin and a vr is in the 30 deg origin. true its still a v6 its build totally different and use different parts. when it comes to coilpacks, they are different.
> 
> vr6 vertical plug mount
> v6 use bolt down and pushdowns and they have a horizontal plug


Educate yourself before you try and school others dumbass... VR is 15 or 10.6 degrees


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

turboistheanswertocancer said:


> Educate yourself before you try and school others dumbass... VR is 15 or 10.6 degrees


i went to fix it and deleted the wrong post. lol sry but hey im glad you can use wikipedia.


on a cleaner note. i will be attempting .050 gap on monday. also going to try going ot the max limit. granted i only putout 19 psi it should be fun. 

cross your fingers for no misfires


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## turboistheanswertocancer (Feb 25, 2011)

05GTIMarine said:


> i went to fix it and deleted the wrong post. lol sry but hey im glad you can use wikipedia.


And yet another dumbass remark, I didn't need wiki for that... Nice try


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

turboistheanswertocancer said:


> And yet another dumbass remark, I didn't need wiki for that... Nice try


are you running these coilpacks??


alright ill stop posting erronious crap if you all gree to keep this shiz on subject. 

its been almost a month. who else is running 2.0t coilpacks???
results?????
opinions????
we need more feedback from more than just a few of us on here.


----------



## turboistheanswertocancer (Feb 25, 2011)

05GTIMarine said:


> are you running these coilpacks??
> 
> 
> alright ill stop posting erronious crap if you all gree to keep this shiz on subject.
> ...


Well since you asked, nope I'm not... I went with LS2 D587 coils and upped the coil dwell with Maestro, works great and I never have to worry about burning out coils (and if I do any auto parts store anywhere has the part) :thumbup:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

turboistheanswertocancer said:


> Well since you asked, nope I'm not... I went with LS2 D587 coils and upped the coil dwell with Maestro, works great and I never have to worry about burning out coils (and if I do any auto parts store anywhere has the part)


Very nice but too expensive a solution.

I am sure it is better because at a point you are limited by size, but not an 80$ OEM pop in upgrade.

Would i do that on a beater I wanted reliable and to run to work daily? nah. Hell unless I have problems again since we all know what crappy ignition symptoms are on a 1.8T I will stick with these. Then I will consider another coil and changing ECU settings.

As of right now this is an 80$ 5 minute mod if your harness is not baked.

They too will burn. Any auto parts will have these soon also, if not already.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

gdoggmoney said:


> Very nice but too expensive a solution.
> 
> I am sure it is better because at a point you are limited by size, but not an 80$ OEM pop in upgrade.
> 
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## turboistheanswertocancer (Feb 25, 2011)

gdoggmoney said:


> Very nice but too expensive a solution.
> 
> I am sure it is better because at a point you are limited by size, but not an 80$ OEM pop in upgrade.
> 
> ...


Well I got the coils, bracket and harness (it's a one piece unit for each bank) for $80, 16v plug wires were under $100 and the stuff to make the bracket to mount them was about $12. And yes any autoparts store will carry the Mk6 coils, but if they are anything like the generic 1.8T coils they will burn out super fast, while the generic LS2's are just as good...

Honestly I just got sick of replacing plugs/coils frequently. It's nice to throw in plugs with a cold heat range and big gap, then forget about it for 50k+ miles. Never worry about blowing one on a long trip.


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

bootymac said:


> For what it's worth, the Audi A3 3.2 V6 uses "022 905 715 B" coils:


A friend of mine will be dropping off one of these to cut in half for you folks.

Ill do a comparison tech shot of the 1.8T next to the 2.0T next to this. Gave a set of 2.0TFSI coils to a local enthusiast who read this thread to try out. Internally I dont see anything different between the 1.8T and 2.0T but 8 pages and lots of positive feedback must be worth something.

...oh if you use a VR6 oil pack you can use these pretty blue boots


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Isaam, awesome. 

Yeah, I was skeptical before I made this thread but after driving it and doing it to two cars, I was all like:


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

alright heres an update. 

ina engineering will be producing the plates for roughly 50 usd. they have all the tooling and parts to make them as perfect as possible. i will be getting 2 sets of them as soon as ina is done with the design. stay tuned for the release of the INA Engineering 2.0T coilpack adapter plates for 1.8t engines. 

and thanks again INA for all your help with this project.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

haha...we'll see.

i'm gonna hold off on this purchase..got other **** goin on.pete confirmed it is a small better idle, but i'm in it for longevity..output change is cool, but i just want some coils that regardless of 2 months or 2 years..jsut last a little longer and are cheaper


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Vegeta Gti said:


> haha...we'll see.
> 
> i'm gonna hold off on this purchase..got other **** goin on.pete confirmed it is a small better idle, but i'm in it for longevity..output change is cool, but i just want some coils that regardless of 2 months or 2 years..jsut last a little longer and are cheaper



well considering that they are on the new mk6 gti and my wife has so far gone almost 30k miles and over a year installed with no issue whatsoever. they havent made a revision as of yet so hopefully they will last 100k


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## Powdered Toast Man (Feb 16, 2010)

i raff out roud.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

A large gap is what kills the 1.8t coils, so I wouldn't be surprised of the FSI / TSi ones do not last when gapped to .040+


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> A large gap is what kills the 1.8t coils, so I wouldn't be surprised of the FSI / TSi ones do not last when gapped to .040+


i hate it when the gaps are too big ..lol :laugh:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

> A large gap is what kills the 1.8t coils, so I wouldn't be surprised of the FSI / TSi ones do not last when gapped to .040+



Of course. However, the stock 1.8T coils run like garbage with a .042 gap new or in working condition. For 20$ each, if I swap them every 3-4 months that is fine.

I'm still going fine on my .042 gap. 183k, diode + MBC + coils and open stock DP = boxster with hurt feelings.

Did you step up beyond .025 at all?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> Of course. However, the stock 1.8T coils run like garbage with a .042 gap new or in working condition. For 20$ each, if I swap them every 3-4 months that is fine.
> 
> I'm still going fine on my .042 gap. 183k, diode + MBC + coils and open stock DP = boxster with hurt feelings.
> 
> Did you step up beyond .025 at all?


Unfortunately no- Just busy with other stuff. I need to wire up the second bosch pump on our dyno before I do any more testing @ that power level, then I will go for some higher boost. I might open up the gaps then too just to see if I can get away with it.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Unfortunately no- Just busy with other stuff. I need to wire up the second bosch pump on our dyno before I do any more testing @ that power level, then I will go for some higher boost. I might open up the gaps then too just to see if I can get away with it.


cant wait for the results.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Not sure if this has been mentioned but the Red Coil Packs that we used / have used in the past on the 2.0T / 2.5 20V N/A motors is : *06E 905 115 E*

Just so we have pretty much everyone covered , 2 versions will be done:

*V1.1 - for use with ECS coil pack holders.*









*V1.2 - for normal use.*


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

gdoggmoney said:


> Of course. However, the stock 1.8T coils run like garbage with a .042 gap new or in working condition. For 20$ each, if I swap them every 3-4 months that is fine.
> 
> I'm still going fine on my .042 gap. 183k, diode + MBC + coils and open stock DP = boxster with hurt feelings.
> 
> Did you step up beyond .025 at all?



i'll wait for pete's results..as i am out of turbo and if these will give some touch of better anything they might be worth it...i'd still run a .030/.025 gap to feel safe...


those cnc'd bits aren't gonna be worth anything unless there is some sort of rubberized something underneath them to prevent them from letting moisture or destroying a painted valve cover...


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Vegeta Gti said:


> those cnc'd bits aren't gonna be worth anything unless there is some sort of rubberized something underneath them to prevent them from letting moisture or destroying a painted valve cover...


The 2.0T coil does fit somewhat snug into the spare plug bore on the valve cover as it is. The adapter is just to allow the coil pack securing tabs to "lock" into the something as the securing tabs are too far up the coil to work on the stock 1.8T cover. Not sure why a painted valve cover would get destroyed by this process though.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Instead of making 4 individual adapters why not just have one long unit laugh that goes along the length of the cover? 

Seems to me it would be alot cleaner looking and easier to produce. For those like me who would just make this on our own...

Plus being one piece it could be molded / welded onto the valve cover to make a clean OEM look instead of 4 random pieces and then 4 more random pieces if you're using the hold downs. 

Personally I think all these extra pieces being added to the cover to hold these coils are going to be ugly. If these do prove to be more effective in the long run I guess I'll be making my own 4 hole adapter plate.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

DMVDUB said:


> Instead of making 4 individual adapters why not just have one long unit laugh that goes along the length of the cover?
> 
> Seems to me it would be alot cleaner looking and easier to produce. For those like me who would just make this on our own...
> 
> ...


It would actually be cheaper to machine 4 individual pieces than 1 whole piece. 1 whole piece requires more operations and a larger piece of T6061 (of course).


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> Instead of making 4 individual adapters why not just have one long unit laugh that goes along the length of the cover?
> 
> Seems to me it would be alot cleaner looking and easier to produce. For those like me who would just make this on our own...
> 
> ...


Then schit or get off the pot, and PRODUCE THEM YOURSELF..

ALL YOU HAVE PRODUCED ON HERE IS REGURGITATED INFO THAT ALLREADY EXISTS ON THE FORUM, AS WELL AS YOUR 2c ON WHAT OTHERS SHOULD DO...

THESE GUYS ARE DOING WERK..

ALL YOUR DOING IS FLAPPING YOUR D!CK SUCKER


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I wasn't really referring to the price. I know for you or any manufacturer it would be cheaper to make smaller pieces. But for someone like me who builds their own parts, using one piece would be easier. 

I don't have a CNC machine so cutting a larger piece is a lot simpler.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

What the FU^K dude? I asked a simple question!

I don't plan on making anything for anyone else. 

You are a little b_tch dubin' you run you mouth in a forum like you are somebody. I didn't ask for your dumbass remarks.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

DMVDUB said:


> I don't have a CNC machine so cutting a larger piece is a lot simpler.


Not sure how you can cut this without a mill and get a somewhat accurate part but I would have no problems sending you a .pdf file if it helped you out.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Issam Abed said:


> Not sure how you can cut this without a mill and get a somewhat accurate part but I would have no problems sending you a .pdf file if it helped you out.


the problem with the one piece is that it will involve more precise measurements, takes more milling time, and also is a huge heatsink.

as for the undercoating. i am going to finish my set when i get them with rubberized spray paint. it will add a thin rubber layer to the bottom of the plate to allow it to seal to the valve cover. this will still allow the channels around the coilpack to breath as well keeping temps in check. 

good work issam cant wait to see my sets on my doorstep. im getting the ecs holddown version as i have them already so might as well use em right???added security:thumbup::thumbup:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I like the looks of that Issam. Aluminum isn't going to be much of a heatsink. If it were steel then it would be a different story.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> I like the looks of that Issam. Aluminum isn't going to be much of a heatsink. If it were steel then it would be a different story.


aluminum loves heat. unfortunately the top of the engine does not see much airflow keeping the plate profile keeps less heat as a whole. i might buy some super thin teflon and make a heat barrier for mine as well. i dunno ill wait till they arrive. super stoked


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

DMV...chill out dude, gettin all salty over nothin. Your startin to look like an ass

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> What the FU^K dude? I asked a simple question!
> 
> I don't plan on making anything for anyone else.
> 
> You are a little b_tch dubin' you run you mouth in a forum like you are somebody. I didn't ask for your dumbass remarks.


Say what you will. You invade thread after thread as if YOU are somebody.. I dont claim to be schit. I contribute when appropriate, otherwise ill simply give a thumbs up to the efforts of those that ARE producing something. We ALL have our ideas about how things could be done different/better, etc. You however parade around here as if youve 'been there/done that'. You havent. Ive maxed out a ko3s on eurodyne maestro for example. I never posted about it because its old news. To me, it was a learning experience with the wideband me7. Thats it.. I had a BT B5,narrowband a4 YEARS AGO. Previous to that I ran a PES supercharger on the same 1.8t. I dont post about this stuff, because its old news. I never posted back in the late 90's- early to mid 2000s with this stuff because I didnt even use a computer until the last couple years.. Ill admit that freely. I have however been wrenching forever, and dont appreciate the way you present yourself, and disrespect others om here when you are so green to this forum. When you first started posting a few months ago; your posts were Inquisitive and enthusiastic. Which is great. However many of them couldve been answered with THE SEARCH FUNCTION.. 

FAST FORWARD TO NOW...

You post as if you know it all, after absorbing much of the basic knowledge available on this forum. 

To add to this; you constantly post towards SEASONED VETS, and guys that have produced some serious schit with disdain, as well as sarcasm.

I know that you havent been around long enough to know who the NAMES/FACES/CARS/BUILDS are behind some of these seemingly unassuming vwvortex screen names. So why do you assume/post as if you know more than guys you dont even know? 

Your whole demeanor on here is obnoxious, and transparent as hell. Hence why you annoy many of us.. 

Do yourself a favor...

READ MORE... POST LESS


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## TurboJOSH (Mar 30, 2009)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> You post as if you know it all, after absorbing much of the basic knowledge available on this forum.
> 
> To add to this; you constantly post towards SEASONED VETS, and guys that have produced some serious schit with disdain, as well as sarcasm.


:thumbup: 
Could not have said it better myself! This clown comes on here and makes everyone look stupid especially guys who have been there done that and drank the kool aid.

Sounds like turbo beetle XS in disguise...

Issam put me down for a V1.1 . I allready have the ECS pieces and will order the red coils from them.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

well said dubin


anyway, thanks for the clarification issam..will these be grooved for the AWP valve covers so they have a snug fit?


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Vegeta Gti said:


> well said dubin
> 
> 
> anyway, thanks for the clarification issam..will these be grooved for the AWP valve covers so they have a snug fit?


you dont want them grooved. the raised area is the same height as the material around the coilpack. having it flat will allow air into the channel around the coilpack but not in hole itself. thats why the screw holes are raised as well. they are all on the same plane.

as for machining one solid piece it is more work. ive been chatting with a teacher that instructs a machining class at the local highschool thats been doing this stuff for 30 plus years. you can use approx 3" x 3" blanks and work from there. theres far less material consumption as well, which will lead to lower overall cost.

for the seal. if you want a seal its like any other metal on metal. the best thing to do is make a gasket of some sort. i personally am one of two things.

1. picking up some liquid rubber from advanced and coating the bottom with a very thin coat so that it forms arount the opening and creates a water tight seal.

or

2. pick up some .5 mmm teflon from a local machine shop that scraps it on a daily basis to use as a seal and a heat barrier as well.


*NOTE:*

issam the single plate needs provisions for the nuts that hold the valve cover to the head. theres three nuts and studs. that need to be factored in as well. 

thanks 

ed


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

erevlydeux said:


> Getting a long strip of aluminum should be just as easy as a small piece and you're doing the same number of operations overall anyways.


1 Piece:


Cut Material
Deck on Mill
Machine out pattern on Mill


4 Piece:


Incert stock into lathe - cut right length and overall diameter
Place on Mill and machine out pattern


Each machinist/ Engineer is different in the way they do things but ideally thats why a 4 piece unit would be cheaper.


05GTIMarine said:


> issam the single plate needs provisions for the nuts that hold the valve cover to the head. theres three nuts and studs. that need to be factored in as well.


Yes but I just did it quickly for visual purposes. I have no intention of making a single plate unfortunately, however , I can provide the .pdf file for anyone wants to venture off and do it on there own.



Vegeta Gti said:


> will these be grooved for the AWP valve covers so they have a snug fit?


Can you clarify what you mean by grooved?


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

I would definitely do those on the mill. 

1) Grab stock which is .125" thicker then the part- machine everything including all top details and engraving. 
2) Flip it over and hold the part in soft jaws, get rid of the extra flange, chamfer the back side and all bolt holes etc. 

If you part bar stock to length on a lathe you would still have to put them in the mill and chamfer the back side details. Otherwise you're left hand deburring which looks like crap. 

Repeat 3 more times, if you're making them 4 pieces, not one. 

I don't think anything you do here will greatly change the operating temperature of the coilpack.


----------



## dixongli (Sep 24, 2007)

Can someone post a video on how it sounds before and after the swap?
People keep saying it sounds different but how? Is it deeper,louder, does it Gargle more, pop more, smoother?

I will not be getting my set for another 2weeks. Can't wait. Also what it the largest gap I can run on stock turbo and boost?
I have a mbc but only run it when I go out with friends or to the track.
Mods are intake,tip,3"dp with stock gli exhaust with muffler delete.
I run open dp when I go out.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

dixongli said:


> Can someone post a video on how it sounds before and after the swap?
> People keep saying it sounds different but how? Is it deeper,louder, does it Gargle more, pop more, smoother?
> 
> I will not be getting my set for another 2weeks. Can't wait. Also what it the largest gap I can run on stock turbo and boost?
> ...


this is from my personal experience. 

the engine runs smoother ie less vibrations, and solid idle rpm. with stock the engine was choppy and idle would go up/down around 200rpm diff. vacuum was not altered in any way mechanically and it also held solid at 18 now where before it would hover between 16-19.

as far as sound out the exhaust it sounded crisper at idle. upon acceleration it felt as if the car went through the rpms smoother and with less effort.

fuel mileage is a hard one to see as theres alot of variables that alter this on a day to day basis.

all in all i believe that the benefits from these coilpacks are due to the companies using the most recent technologies and processes to ensure longevity of the coilpack.

the gap im using right now is .043 on bkr7e plugs and no misfires with 19psi.

does that help dixon???


----------



## dixongli (Sep 24, 2007)

Sure does hit it right on the head of the nail. What does your butt dyno say? Could I run the same gap and spark plug on stock boost? I would hate to swap sparkplugs every time I go out...lol


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

dixongli said:


> Sure does hit it right on the head of the nail. What does your butt dyno say? Could I run the same gap and spark plug on stock boost? I would hate to swap sparkplugs every time I go out...lol


yes you can. your able to open the gap up with these coilpacks so that you get a cleaner burn. 


oh and for all you who are skeptical heres the audizine thread. i guess audi owners dont mess around they just do.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/428907-2.0T-FSI-coil-packs


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

Ok officially putting this up:


(8) 05GTIMarine - V1.1 & V1.2
(4) Antoinebourdeau - V1.2
 (4) jalcom1 - V1.1
 (4) EBG 18T - V1.2
 (4) TurboJOSH - V1.1


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

How much is this with shipping to Canada J4X2R9?
I'll take a set of v1.1


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Put me down for a v1.1

The quicker the better b/c im swapping in a new coil harness this week I would like to get everything done at once. :thumbup:


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

EDIT:

Can anyone confirm will the 2.oT coils fit under the engine cover.

How much are these and what is their ETA? I'd like a set of V1.2


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

so heres more info as i went to the dealershop to get some parts and took pics at the same time.

in the following pictures:

*CoilPacks*
*MK4*: 06A-905-115D (newest revision)
*MK5*: 07K-905-715F (newest revision)
*MK6*: 06H-905-115 (no revisions as of yet)


i measured the lengths and compared each one.

first ill show pics and then ill comment on build.

MK4 on left and MK6 on right









MK5 coilpack









and the comparison notes

















*Observation:*
- noticed that they used american standard measurements for all their dimension.
- MK5/6 are identical length as both are exactly .5" longer than MK4
- MK5 has the chromed metal shield as the MK6 has what seems like a solid metal sleeve
- MK6 seems heavier duty than both the MK5 and the MK4 ( the mk4 has a lower piece that is flimsy and can probably be removed easily by hand)
- MK5 alignment tabs are built into the tube of the coilpack
- MK6 alignment tabs protrude fromt the underside of the coilpack ( they are actual tabs whereas MK5 are blocks)

in my opinion i think that the MK6 coilpack PN 06H-905-115 should be the one purchased as it is the most recent coilpack with considerable design changes. i think that the change in metal shielding was vw answer to the coilpacks failing points. once again this is solely my opinion from a visual standpoint. 


Issam were you able to take pictures of the coilpacks that you cut up. if you have a MK6 coilpack on hand would you mind cutting it up and posting pics.

i will also be making yet more phone calls trying to get the specs on the coilpacks again. 

bear with me guys. 

thanks 
Ed Passetto


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

I plan on buying a set of mk6 coils tomorrow. I have an early mk4 with the bolt down coils. They are supposed to be bulletproof (and have been for the most part). But what you seem to be saying is the bolt down coils last longer because they put out an inferior spark is that right? 

I have had ignition issues above 15psi on my BT 1.8t. I have had to lower the plug gap below .028. The car breaks up at high boost as well. Im going to replace the whole coil harness this week as well b/c that definitely is a contributing factor to my failing ignition system.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> I plan on buying a set of mk6 coils tomorrow. I have an early mk4 with the bolt down coils. They are supposed to be bulletproof (and have been for the most part). But what you seem to be saying is the bolt down coils last longer because they put out an inferior spark is that right?
> 
> I have had ignition issues above 15psi on my BT 1.8t. I have had to lower the plug gap below .028. The car breaks up at high boost as well. Im going to replace the whole coil harness this week as well b/c that definitely is a contributing factor to my failing ignition system.



Said it before, in the first post. REPLACE THE HARNESS NO MATTER WHAT!!!! Good man for doing so.

Even if it looks good, the copper inside is getting black and gaining resistance from heat cycles.


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

05GTIMarine said:


> Issam were you able to take pictures of the coilpacks that you cut up. if you have a MK6 coilpack on hand would you mind cutting it up and posting pics.


Ed ,
I am trying to get a 24V VR6 Coil Pack to cut up then ill post up the picture for you guys.




(8) 05GTIMarine - V1.1 & V1.2
(4) Antoinebourdeau - V1.2
 (4) jalcom1 - V1.1
 (4) EBG 18T - V1.2
 (4) TurboJOSH - V1.1
 (4) formerly silveratljetta - V1.1
 (4) dknl - V1.1
 (4) Gulfstream - V1.1


We are moving forward with this anyway for the local community here so I will get an ETA tomorrow noon for the forums.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

gdoggmoney said:


> Said it before, in the first post. REPLACE THE HARNESS NO MATTER WHAT!!!! Good man for doing so.
> 
> Even if it looks good, the copper inside is getting black and gaining resistance from heat cycles.


Earlier in this thread they were saying that the bolt down coils were designed differently b/c they came on the non-vvt cars. They do last basically forever but if they are putting out an inferior spark it is really hurting my performance.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

alright finally got through to the robert bosch company about the coilpacks and output.

basically what he told me is that we will not be able to get the information as volkswagen audi does not want the technical information on any of there coilpacks to be released. he also stated that the properties inside the combustion chamber also affect spark output such as the plug gap, pressures and temperatures. 

it kind of upsets me that we get the runaround when the only thing we really want to know is the output voltage of the coilpack itself, and vw wants to be stingy and not let us know the info. well tommorow ill go to the dealership and talk to the vw/audi parts manager as he might be able to get me the information i/we need.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

05GTIMarine said:


> ill go to the dealership and talk to the vw/audi parts manager as he might be able to get me the information i/we need.


:laugh: good luck with that. They are usually no better than the people at autozone since they just grab and sell parts off a shelf


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

05GTIMarine said:


> it kind of upsets me that we get the runaround when the only thing we really want to know is the output voltage of the coilpack itself, and vw wants to be stingy and not let us know the info. well tommorow ill go to the dealership and talk to the vw/audi parts manager as he might be able to get me the information i/we need.


that's pretty sad. I thought Pete was going to test the coils with a dap tester or something?


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> that's pretty sad. I thought Pete was going to test the coils with a dap tester or something?


i dunno what petes doing. he already dynod em and said they idled better but would not elaborate any more, secret squirrel stuff i guess. i wonder if petes working on plates too?? who knows lol. maybe ill save more money and buy a tester myself and post my findings


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Say what you will. You invade thread after thread as if YOU are somebody.. I dont claim to be schit. I contribute when appropriate, otherwise ill simply give a thumbs up to the efforts of those that ARE producing something. We ALL have our ideas about how things could be done different/better, etc. You however parade around here as if youve 'been there/done that'. You havent. Ive maxed out a ko3s on eurodyne maestro for example. I never posted about it because its old news. To me, it was a learning experience with the wideband me7. Thats it.. I had a BT B5,narrowband a4 YEARS AGO. Previous to that I ran a PES supercharger on the same 1.8t. I dont post about this stuff, because its old news. I never posted back in the late 90's- early to mid 2000s with this stuff because I didnt even use a computer until the last couple years.. Ill admit that freely. I have however been wrenching forever, and dont appreciate the way you present yourself, and disrespect others om here when you are so green to this forum. When you first started posting a few months ago; your posts were Inquisitive and enthusiastic. Which is great. However many of them couldve been answered with THE SEARCH FUNCTION..
> 
> FAST FORWARD TO NOW...
> 
> ...


LOL.. wow

DMV = spoolin ?


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> EDIT:
> 
> Can anyone confirm will the 2.oT coils fit under the engine cover.
> 
> ...


^^


----------



## bpfoley (Nov 30, 2000)

i looked back in the thread but I can't find the part that explains the difference between v1.1 and v1.2 of the plates?


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

bpfoley said:


> i looked back in the thread but I can't find the part that explains the difference between v1.1 and v1.2 of the plates?


alright heres the explanation.

the v1.1 has no provisions for tapered flush mount hardware. they can be used with ecs hold downs or they can be used with m6 similar to the other hex fasteners used on the engine.

v1.2 is countersunk so that you can use flush mount screws and have the super clean look. this option is optimal if you are NOT using ecs hold downs and do not plan on using hold downs period.

both versions will fit the MK5 and the MK6 coilpacks as they are the same dimentions as i verified on the previous page. they will be made in raw aluminum so that you can either polish or paint or keep them they way they are yourself. each set of coilpack plates come in a set of 4.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

bpfoley said:


> i looked back in the thread but I can't find the part that explains the difference between v1.1 and v1.2 of the plates?


It's in audizine thread on page 2 for some reason he only posted a picture of vaporware showing how he isn't making them in this thread.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

05GTIMarine said:


> each set of coilpack plates come in a set of 4.


Correct
Hardware (SS or regular zinc coated socket caps are not included but can be). I will post up packages once the plates are done.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

INA said:


> Correct
> Hardware (SS or regular zinc coated socket caps are not included but can be). I will post up packages once the plates are done.
> 
> CURRENT LIST:
> ...


That's a lot of orders. Get that CNC machine working the overnight shift lol.


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*coilpack hold downs*

sorry ... hate to do this to ya but can i made a mistake and would like v1.2 (for normal use without the coilpack hold downs)

thx


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

one note to add is the sealing surface from the plate to valvecover...

the distance is going to be less than a milimeter. theres a few ways you can go about ensuring that theres a full seal

1. use spray rubber and spray the underside of the plate. this will crate a thin film that will seal against the valvecover. ( this is the option i am going to use as it is the easiest as well)
http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/plastidip.html

2 buy gasket material and cut pattern with a razor slightly smaller than ouside diameter of the plate. http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Fluids-and-Chemicals/Gasket-Material/_/N-25w7

3. use a small amount of electrical tape on bottom of plate and use a razor to clear off anything that protrudes into the middle of the adapter with a razor.


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

count me in for version 1.2 for use w/o holders. 

What is the price we are looking at? 

Either way, add me to the list please. 

Good stuff. 

Joe


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> count me in for version 1.2 for use w/o holders.
> 
> What is the price we are looking at?
> 
> ...


he is trying to get it to around 50 dollars a set which is super cheap considering everything that plays into parts pricing. instead of me doing a group buy and having someone who has no clue what the parts are for make them INA will be making them in the masses. so far i think theres close to 20 folks that want them. i am taking two sets for brightgolf and myself and i have 2 or 3 more friends that are interested in them as well. they want to see em on my car before they get em. 

i bet issam is pulling his hair out now that hes got close to 20 orders and im sure once we all get em all our friends will come out of the woodworks and want em too.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I happen to have a set of these wire adapters from 034 that we were going to use on the 914 project and now they're just laying around. 

Does anyone know if these could be a viable option? I know they probably are too narrow, but I can always open them up a bit on the press.

Thankseace:

Stock photo below...


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

They would prolly work if they're a 1/2" tall and if you either opened it up or cut the tits off the top of the coil that hold it in place.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> I happen to have a set of these wire adapters from 034 that we were going to use on the 914 project and now they're just laying around.
> 
> Does anyone know if these could be a viable option? I know they probably are too narrow, but I can always open them up a bit on the press.
> 
> ...


yes you can. those are 034 motorsports very bulky and ugly plates. all you would need to do is have the right size opening. if you were to do that i would recommend getting the mk6 coils take the tabs off ( super easy) and put the plates on prior to installing them. once you slide the coilpacks in and they are seating then you would install your hardware and there you go. super snug fitment. once again you should get a gasket to go between the plate and the valve cover, or plastidip as i am using. 

any more ?s send em


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

05GTIMarine said:


> yes you can. those are 034 motorsports very bulky and ugly plates. all you would need to do is have the right size opening. if you were to do that i would recommend getting the mk6 coils take the tabs off ( super easy) and put the plates on prior to installing them. once you slide the coilpacks in and they are seating then you would install your hardware and there you go. super snug fitment. once again you should get a gasket to go between the plate and the valve cover, or plastidip as i am using.
> 
> any more ?s send em


What is the point of the plastidip? The plates will be snugged down with bolts anyways. You seem overly concerned with making a perfect seal on the valve cover and I don't understand why that is necessary? Bolting down the plates should seal it just fine. What are you sealing it from exactly?


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> What is the point of the plastidip? The plates will be snugged down with bolts anyways. You seem overly concerned with making a perfect seal on the valve cover and I don't understand why that is necessary? Bolting down the plates should seal it just fine. What are you sealing it from exactly?












if you look at the bolt holes where the plat will sit, it is raised. the coilpack hole is on a different plane so when the plates are mounted there will be approx .5-1mm gap. the object is to have that hole completely sealed to not allow water, oil, debri in the coilpack hole. adding a small layer between the two items will create the seal. it will also help those who painted their valve cover and do not want metal pressing on the finish. the main goal is keeping stock seal qualities while adding stability to the coilpacks. 
for the version with the use of ecs coilpacks this will be approx the height of the hold downs

the tubes are about 3/4 of an inch so they will sit almost even with the top of the coilpacks with the plates.










any more ?s

oh and for those who are calling my valve cover yellow its not. its Fahrenheit orange (magma orange from mk5 paint code LD2C)


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> Does anyone know if these could be a viable option? I know they probably are too narrow, but I can always open them up a bit on the press.


I designed those back in 2004 so no they wouldnt work...
They retail for $65 and will cost you more to bore then and notch for the coil pack tabs than starting from scratch.



RabbitGTDguy said:


> count me in for version 1.2 for use w/o holders.


:thumbup:


dknl said:


> sorry ... hate to do this to ya but can i made a mistake and would like v1.2 (for normal use without the coilpack hold downs)
> 
> thx


:thumbup:

CURRENT LIST:


(8) 05GTIMarine - V1.1 & V1.2
(4) Antoinebourdeau - V1.2
 (4) jalcom1 - V1.1
 (4) EBG 18T - V1.2
 (4) TurboJOSH - V1.1
 (4) formerly silveratljetta - V1.1
 (4) dknl - V1.2
 (4) Gulfstream - V1.1
 (4) nofearhawk - V1.2
 (4) heywier427 - V1.1
 (4) TooLFan46n2 - V1.2
 (4) RabbitGTDguy - V1.2
 (4) vinny.dtw - V1.1


V1.1 Counter == 28
V1.2 Counter == 28


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

damn your gonna have a mountain of plates lol. good to see 56 plates and counting needing to be made


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

05GTIMarine said:


> damn your gonna have a mountain of plates lol. good to see 56 plates and counting needing to be made


I am going to do a run of 200 plates and will anodize some clear and some black.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

INA said:


> I am going to do a run of 200 plates and will anodize some clear and some black.


cool. i want just plain as ill polish mine. :laugh::laugh:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Yeah, Issam I know they've been around for a while. 
I already have a set though that I purchased a while ago from a local in DC. So the price isn't the issue. I don't see why it wouldn't work if I just put them on my drill press and opened them up?? and removed the tabs like 05GTMARINE said. Are they too thick? I don't have them in front of me or a set of MK5/6 coils to compare. 

What am I not seeing that couldn't be resolved by opening the hole a little? I would rather just recycle something I'm not going to end up using than buy more parts (if I don't have to).


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> Yeah, Issam I know they've been around for a while.
> I already have a set though that I purchased a while ago from a local in DC. So the price isn't the issue. I don't see why it wouldn't work if I just put them on my drill press and opened them up?? and removed the tabs like 05GTMARINE said. Are they too thick? I don't have them in front of me or a set of MK5/6 coils to compare.
> 
> What am I not seeing that couldn't be resolved by opening the hole a little? I would rather just recycle something I'm not going to end up using than buy more parts (if I don't have to).


as long as they are aroung 9-11mm thick you will be fine. especially if your doing all the work yourself and it doesnt cost anything. get a jewelers file and clean the burs though or it will tear the living hell outta the rubber. i think tabless would look so clean too like with the agn valve covers.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm gonna give it a shot this weekend, when I have the time. Since I have a crinkle coated valve cover I'll probably do the same as you and plasti-dip them so it doesn't tear up the finish.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> I'm gonna give it a shot this weekend, when I have the time. Since I have a crinkle coated valve cover I'll probably do the same as you and plasti-dip them so it doesn't tear up the finish.


:thumbup::thumbup: pics better be posted on monday lol jkjk take your time..


so no one is running these without the plates yet??? 
i wanna see some reviews


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Like 3 of us running these coils and everyone is waiting on plates?

Slackers.


I'm ordering a set of MKVI coils today and I am going to open the gap on the MKV and MKVI coils to see which lets go first. I'd like to know what difference there is between the two but I don't have the equipment here in MD.

I can get them "blueprinted" if I send one of each back to the family lab.

Considering open downpipe 25psi highway runs for this just because I can.


If anyone wants I have a set of MKV coils with 1000 miles on them? No problems, I just don't need 3 sets of brand new coils.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Looks like we will have a glut of these plates here shortly because these should be done in the next week or so: 










:thumbup:


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## Zealot (Mar 9, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Looks like we will have a glut of these plates here shortly because these should be done in the next week or so:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What's the price point?


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Ya, round end mills fit into round corners a lot better then square ones :laugh: I use socket heads so a clumsy oaf such as myself has a harder time stripping the hex  

The price point will probably be $79 with all hardware etc included, although I might be able to talk Dave into an intro special- he does the pricing not me. The raw ones will be available right away- the red ano ones will take a few weeks but look really stylish (even more so with the red coils  ) and won't cost any more. 

We will be able to knock them out pretty quick since we actually do manufacture the stuff in house. :thumbup:


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

wow that looks good...


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Ya, round end mills fit into round corners a lot better then square ones :laugh: I use socket heads so a clumsy oaf such as myself has a harder time stripping the hex
> 
> The price point will probably be $79 with all hardware etc included, although I might be able to talk Dave into an intro special- he does the pricing not me. The raw ones will be available right away- the red ano ones will take a few weeks but look really stylish (even more so with the red coils  ) and won't cost any more.
> 
> We will be able to knock them out pretty quick since we actually do manufacture the stuff in house. :thumbup:


:thumbup::thumbup: all these plates lol. my plates are already ordered with INA and the only thing vastly different between your two plates will be the etching. yours also have no provision to use ecs hold downs.

i hope that these coilpacks become the new standard in the 1.8t community.

as for the stripping of the hex all you need is a lil never seize and a good hex wrench.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Don't see why you'd need the holddowns with a proper plate.


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## Zealot (Mar 9, 2003)

Regardless, you can still run hold downs with the Integrated plates. All you'll need is longer bolts.


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

I've had one coilpack pop up in the 4 years I've owned my car. Pulled it out, retorqued the plug and popped it back in right as rain. Been there ever since. And were talkin about an abused daily driver not a trailer queen. So eff hold downs. 

They're fugly anyways. eace:


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

05GTIMarine said:


> LOL U mad bro. mr. internet toughguy


The force is great in this one. 
Lol


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

erevlydeux said:


> Jesus christ shut the **** up already.  You obviously have zero mechanical or electrical engineering knowledge and have been making asinine assertions and statements all over the 2.0T coilpack threads.
> 
> You wanna promote a company, support using the coilpacks... that's great. Promote away. But please STFU when it comes to trying to give engineering explanations... you tried to tell someone that there is no such thing as ignition dwell and in the same breath say that you know that the coils are more powerful despite the fact that neither you nor anyone else has actually measured the output. Now you're comparing a washing machine with an uneven load to a coilpack vibrating out of its bore. It's the pressure in the coilpack bore from the engine heating up and potentially spark plug thread blowby.
> 
> I'm all about collective knowledge but everytime you try and answer a question here (and totally miss the mark) and then end with "any more questions?" it makes me ****ing cringe.


x2 and I do want to see someone test the coils with a voltmeter.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

erevlydeux said:


> I have my HV probe sitting in my room but no time to test unfortunately - girlfriend's father passed away unexpectedly this weekend.
> 
> I did manage to pick up a MK6 2.0T coil, though: it is nearly *identical* to the MK5 2.0T coil. The MK5 coil is longer by about 0.035" total. The depth from metal end to the spark plug socket (where the spark plug connects to the coil pack) is roughly 0.01" more on the MK5 coilpack, which means the MK5 coilpack, in general, will sit deeper in the bore. Not to mention that when standing on the harness end, you can see that the MK5 coilpack sealing rings extend deeper into the bore than the MK6 unit. From the outer most point on the bottom most sealing ring to the top of the coilpack, the MK5 unit is about 0.09" longer. The alignment tabs are also extremely similar in dimensions with the major difference being that the MK5 unit has rubber tabs whereas the MK6 unit has the tabs integrated as part of the top shell of the coilpack.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input. Let us know as soon as you have a chance to test them. I havent placed an order yet and I wanted the pretty red mk5 coils but if the mk6 ones prove to be more powerful then ill get the all black mk6 ones. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm using the mk6 ones simply because I happened to have a TSI head already on the shelf with a set in it and I raided it. Personally those red ones look nice to me, but that's just because we bleed red around here :laugh:

The plates should work with either, and they are both cheap, so whatever floats your boat there. 

I don't pop up coils even with lots of boost / power.... You have to crank on the plugs a bit so they really seal up, that's all.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Dropped two coils todays....u fukers jinx'd it

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

I will be getting the IE unit..but first I gotta score the coils....from the mainland...cos $80 each here is rape...


Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Oh..and I've needed hold downs, nor my customers

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I'm using the mk6 ones simply because I happened to have a TSI head already on the shelf with a set in it and I raided it. Personally those red ones look nice to me, but that's just because we bleed red around here :laugh:
> 
> The plates should work with either, and they are both cheap, so whatever floats your boat there.
> 
> I don't pop up coils even with lots of boost / power.... You have to crank on the plugs a bit so they really seal up, that's all.


just a ? isnt there a certain torque you are supposed to use as not to strip out the threads on the aluminum head??? its something like 20ft LBS right?? why would you just tighten them down thats not good to tell people. next thing you know they will be pissed because you said just tighten them real good and wind up stripping the head.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

05GTIMarine said:


> just a ? isnt there a certain torque you are supposed to use as not to strip out the threads on the aluminum head??? its something like 20ft LBS right?? why would you just tighten them down thats not good to tell people. next thing you know they will be pissed because you said just tighten them real good and wind up stripping the head.


Like every last nut and bolt on the car, there is a torque spec. Use it if you feel uncomfortable doing them by hand. Personally, I just do them by hand- there is like an inch of thread engagement there, you would have to over tighten them by a mile, and the result would most likely be some sort of failure of the plug, not pulling the threads out of the head. 

By the way, I did post all the "data" I have. I threw the plugs in our engine in the middle of testing some other parts, I did like 4 pulls, and now I've been busy. I only posted because people were asking for non stock turbo experience and I figured 800+ bhp was a good case for that. Not sure really what else you want lol. :what:


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Like every last nut and bolt on the car, there is a torque spec. Use it if you feel uncomfortable doing them by hand. Personally, I just do them by hand- there is like an inch of thread engagement there, you would have to over tighten them by a mile, and the result would most likely be some sort of failure of the plug, not pulling the threads out of the head.
> 
> By the way, I did post all the "data" I have. I threw the plugs in our engine in the middle of testing some other parts, I did like 4 pulls, and now I've been busy. I only posted because people were asking for non stock turbo experience and I figured 800+ bhp was a good case for that. Not sure really what else you want lol. :what:


i personally dont need anymore info as i already have a set. thanks pete.


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## Zealot (Mar 9, 2003)

05GTIMarine said:


> Edward passetto. whenever you get the chance google me you might be surprized what you find.


Wow. This comment just reeks of douchebaggery


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

This **** got out of control lol.


Oh..btw...

RLTW

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

Who cares what company makes what... Who cares who does what for a living... we all love vw products... And selling a resistor with an vw plug isn't special... everyone does that... and jhm has been doing it forever for s4 engine mounts. So get off your high horse. 

Remember that the point of the thread was to talk about coil options... If you don't want to buy the same stuff we buy... then don't... But at least try to civil... Like 05gtimarine said, this thread is being viewed by at least 2 other forums if not more. Don't make this into the stupidity that is the mk4 section :facepalm:


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

i appologize for getting douchebaggery. i get hot headed easily nowdays. anywho ill take down all my retarded posts and clean this back up for the info seekers to come.

edit: all retarded comments on my behalf are cleaned up.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Has anyone broken these open yet to see the difference in the internals?


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

I think to visually see any difference performance wise, you would have to count the coils... I will be the first to NOT volunteer myself for that :laugh: There may be and almost certainly have been changes made in the never ending search for lower cost / higher reliability. You can bet VW was not excited about "R" revisions to the 1.8t coil :screwy:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Count the coils measure output voltage and spark duration.


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## turboistheanswertocancer (Feb 25, 2011)

*FV-QR*

Good luck coil winding counting LOL


----------



## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

I ordered the coils (06H-905-115) and wiring harness for my '01 A4 1.8T. I'm hoping it makes a big difference. I'm sure no small part will be the wiring harness, mine looks like sh|t.

I'll update when I get them in. I'm not going to worry about hold downs unless one pops out.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i was wrong..all my coils are good..my plugs were out of gap. once again..my coils are fine...


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Has the price and or timeline been said for INA's Non hold down plates?


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Vegeta Gti said:


> i was wrong..all my coils are good..my plugs were out of gap. once again..my coils are fine...



If you had the better coils, your plugs would probably not be out of gap. Just sayin! :beer:


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

not true...

i am runnin alot more stuff..head work on an aeb, cams, alot of boost on a 30r, 8k+ rpms. it's inevitableto regap..just sooo much more energy in each pop for me over stock.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Don't know until you try. I'd do it, but my BT 3071R GTi has hydraulic problems, and the new owner is still letting it sit in my driveway as such. 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say .042 on a 30r at 20+psi would be ok.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i won't do that, no thanks..such a big gap is not something i wanna do...i'll stay @.030 even with the MKVI coils unless someone can show some real data of that kind of gap on a 9.5:1 high revving high psi motor, and it's fine and produces results.

until then, gonan continue to wait, i may buy em and hold on to em. but not gonna be a guinea pig, not with my daily


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> We will be able to knock them out pretty quick since we actually do manufacture the stuff in house. :thumbup:


I am sure you better than anyone can understand that not many people are fortunate enough to have the ability to purchase CNC Mill's & Engine's dyno's with the snap of a finger , however , the machine shop we work with we have a share in so that allows us to move designs from the computer screen straight into the machines to get produced in reasonably fashioned manner. I want to make it clear that the designs shown were for illustration purposes (took me about 5 minutes in Solidworks) and when we move to production changing a radius could cut cost of a unit by $3 a piece.Whatever the case this is not a machining forum and I am sure like the breather adapters, the oil cooler kits , manual timing belts kits and whatever else that there will be enough market for everyone to share....

Considering this was only designed on Saturday I would say INA is doing a good job of getting custom parts out to the masses.









Please follow the new link for ordering information and FAQ's.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...il-Pack-Adapters-(TECH-amp-FAQ)-INTRO-PRICING
Thanks again everyone.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

INA said:


> I am sure you better than anyone can understand that not many people are fortunate enough to have the ability to purchase CNC Mill's & Engine's dyno's with the snap of a finger , however , the machine shop we work with we have a share in so that allows us to move designs from the computer screen straight into the machines to get produced in reasonably fashioned manner. I want to make it clear that the designs shown were for illustration purposes (took me about 5 minutes in Solidworks) and when we move to production changing a radius could cut cost of a unit by $3 a piece.Whatever the case this is not a machining forum and I am sure like the breather adapters, the oil cooler kits , manual timing belts kits and whatever else that there will be enough market for everyone to share....
> 
> Considering this was only designed on Saturday I would say INA is doing a good job of getting custom parts out to the masses.
> 
> ...


OMFG those are damn sexy. i cant wait for my sets to arrive. ill do an install review set the second they hit my doorstep.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Damn, you beat me! :laugh: We were in the middle of a pretty good sized run of something else :-/ Tomorrow they go on the mill. Good job getting those done though, I'm impressed with the speed. :thumbup:

Not facing them top & bottom? 

We don't buy things at the snap of fingers Issam, me and Dave barely get paid to help finance that stuff. The shipping guy makes more then me. :doh: :thumbup:


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> The shipping guy makes more then me. :doh: :thumbup:


...i hear you on that.


----------



## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

INA said:


> ...i hear you on that.


i 3rd that motion ..lol 

owning a shop is no joke !!!!! not to mention you gatta work harder than any of your employees :facepalm:


----------



## Powdered Toast Man (Feb 16, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Good job getting those done though, I'm impressed with the speed. :thumbup:














[email protected] said:


> We don't buy things at the snap of fingers Issam, me and Dave barely get paid to help finance that stuff. The shipping guy makes more then me. :doh: :thumbup:





INA said:


> ...i hear you on that.


haha..... life of a small business owner.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Vegeta Gti said:


> i won't do that, no thanks..such a big gap is not something i wanna do...i'll stay @.030 even with the MKVI coils unless someone can show some real data of that kind of gap on a 9.5:1 high revving high psi motor, and it's fine and produces results.
> 
> until then, gonan continue to wait, i may buy em and hold on to em. but not gonna be a guinea pig, not with my daily


Why you make a no sense?!?!? but ok. Whatever gets the goo out, floats the boat, etc.


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

think about it..

who else in here is interested, besides pete and toasty buns man over there...that has more than jsut a BT kit? i can see the nuetral gains with a more simple bolt on setup..but i daily my car..and i have ALOT more going on, so taking $150 bucks and trying something that i don't actually NEED immediately is not something i am currently gonna do, not with my lack of income. 

see my point? if i bought these, ran a .040 gap and something went wrong at 26psi -8k...where will i be? besides screwed?

do you know for a FACT these WILL help me and that i can for SURE run them @26psi with a .040 gap or a .031 gap?

i personally would rather wait since i can't currently take the risk based on a bunch of peoples idea and words. yes, i trust pete and he said they idlle nicely...but he didn't really change the gap and i need my car daily, so my current setup works. 

feel me?


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

Vegeta Gti said:


> do you know for a FACT these WILL help me and that i can for SURE run them @26psi with a .040 gap or a .031 gap?


YES
did it last night.:thumbup:
27 psi + 0.040" Gap


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

You have two 1.8t bad mofos posting here now. Isaam and Pete. Do it I will send you a full set of mkv coils for 83$ and a USPS envelope.

Drink the kool aid already motherf'er.


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

just so noobs like me can understand the benefits:

Wondering whats the benefits of increasing plug gaps?
Does it help something ? I know the hotter spark will help burn cleaner but what happens when the gap is increased especially if its running well with the 2.0T coilpack? 

Basically what i'm trying to get at, by installing the 2.0T coilpacks is there additional benefit to opening the gap (as apposed to leaving gap as stock)?

Regardless, ordered a set :beer:
Can't wait to try it out to see what it'll do

THANKS


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

INA said:


> YES
> did it last night.:thumbup:
> 27 psi + 0.040" Gap


on?? details man, details.

i know pete and issam are here..but until not they had jus played, not really put em through the ringer.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Ok I guess it is time to redo the firs post again.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

*More spark should be a cleaner and fuller burn. More fuel burned better power (since more air + fuel = HP and better MPG since less fuel is wasted

(If I'm wrong someone correct me.)

Question answered:wave:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

no **** shirlock

i'm looking for longevity here...a hp or two..cool, good stuff. as i said before, gonna wait to someone with a more similar setup has run these on the street for awhile and says something/shows something.:beer::beer:


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

That wasn't for you Veg' the guy above asked what the point was...


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

my apologies dude:wave:


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)




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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Sold my coils to a stranded motorist a month back; the replacement red mk5 2.0T coils came today. Hopefully will have a running motor this week to toss them in and try them out. The one o-ring seems to sit snug in the valve cover but I'm definetly picking up a set of adapters for insurance.


----------



## luckylindy03 (Sep 19, 2009)

this is great!

can't wait to do it


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I got a dyno day coming up on the 4th.

My plan is to do a run as I brought it
a run with just the coils swapped
a run with the coils swapped and new plugs gapped at .040

Coils should be here thursday with my plugs so I'll post up the results and try and get some hard data on this.


----------



## noone1 (Apr 27, 2009)

So, there are a number of different coils out there for the 1.8T.

I have a Polo GTI with the 1.8T, we don't seem to have coilpack isssues. From memory its a BJX engine, these might work for you... http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=36 

Has anyone confirmed the voltage difference yet?


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

I run them on my ko4 a4 pushing 26-28 psi... they work perfectly fine gapped to .040. Just buy them... $150 is change... I've spent $6000 on my car in the past year for performance parts... let alone like 2k in maintenance...


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Brightgolf said:


> I run them on my ko4 a4 pushing 26-28 psi... they work perfectly fine gapped to .040. Just buy them... $150 is change... I've spent $6000 on my car in the past year for performance parts... let alone like 2k in maintenance...


Checkbook mechanic?


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

DIY or die..you can say $150, but i wont get the spacers. and i got no bull**** 4x the amount you do, but priorities man, i got family to take care of..$150 for coils..not anywhere to the top, especiall yon a far more intense setup than a K03


what do u think dubn?


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Vegeta Gti said:


> DIY or die..you can say $150, but i wont get the spacers. and i got no bull**** 4x the amount you do, but priorities man, i got family to take care of..$150 for coils..not anywhere to the top, especiall yon a far more intense setup than a K03
> 
> 
> what do u think dubn?


Since you asked.. 

I agree with Chris 100%.
I too spent over $$,$$$ on my last project, and find this type of response to be immature at best. 

Only children, and yuppie wannabe's BRAG about the cost of parts. To say $150 is "change" displays a lack of responsibility, and/or respect for the REAL value of money.. 

FWIW, Ill brag a lil, and state that on a schit day I make $150 by lunchtime. I work 7 days a week as well.. Do the math..

My point? I consider $150 to be a decent chunk of change regardless of my income at the moment.

That $150 could be spent on a decent trip to the grocery store, a cool new toy for my 3 yr old, some hot lingerie for wifey, my cell phone bill, a FULL tank of gas for my pickup, a new pair of shoes or LV purse for wifey, etc, etc, etc... 

ANY of these would be worth more to me than some part that MAY, or MAY NOT be effective, proven, etc.. 

If these prove their worth, most guys will pony up, and make the switch.. Until then; I agree with Chris


----------



## MKllllvr28 (Sep 15, 2005)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Since you asked..
> 
> I agree with Chris 100%.
> I too spent over $$,$$$ on my last project, and find this type of response to be immature at best.
> ...


:thumbup:


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

indeed sir, indeed. for $150 i get half a months worth of groceries for me the wife and our 3 man squad!!

i'd rather do that, or get a nice highflow, super efficent radiator than coils. just me. 

$150...with gas being $4.55 a gallon(and it went down $0.29!!), that $150 is alot to me for 92 octane junk we have here


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I'll have results of power gains or not on saturday. I got a **** load of over time, plus some mad tips and considering the amount of information I have gains on this site and from the members involved in this thread alone, I'm more then willing to toss it up to help the community go forward. $150 is a lot of money for anyone and now i have the chance to give back to the community and i have the money to spend I will


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Cryser said:


> I'll have results of power gains or not on saturday. I got a **** load of over time, plus some mad tips and considering the amount of information I have gains on this site and from the members involved in this thread alone, I'm more then willing to toss it up to help the community go forward. $150 is a lot of money for anyone and now i have the chance to give back to the community and i have the money to spend I will


:beer::beer:


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Checkbook mechanic?


No I do all my own work. Thats just parts... I've gone through lots of parts to find the ones I actually like on my car. I have plenty of bills just like everyone else. The car isn't the highest priority. I can afford to buy things for my car by selling parts from other cars I have or have had in the past along with other parts off my car. I also do lots of work on other peoples cars to make money as well

It definitely is a rough economy out there for sure. But this car costs me less on insurance and car payment than my mk4 golf did, like $230 a month less.

Everyone on audizine bought the coils and between here and there people have put 72 orders in for the coil spacers from Issam, so we will see how they perform soon enough. You can sure enough wait for one of those kids to blow up one of their dailys before purchasing these coils. I'll keep an eye out and let you know.

I'm not trying to brag by any means but spending money on something that actually helped out my gas mileage is worth it to me. As I was getting like 15mpg on my a4.. I get 23-25 now.


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

$150 is change? Why are you driving a freakin VW if $150 is change...damn. I would be all over Porsches if $150 was change for me


----------



## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

I don't drive a vw... I drive an audi...


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

oh wow, i am sorry then... :snowcool:


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

great info here OP we've been sleepin on this for a long time lol :facepalm: does any one think running the 2.0t coilpacks and plugs at .040 gap instead of .026 could possibly help the bumpy idle probs caused by siemens 630cc injectors? i would rather buy these than 550's+adapters+4bar fpr :facepalm:


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Big_Tom said:


> great info here OP we've been sleepin on this for a long time lol :facepalm: does any one think running the 2.0t coilpacks and plugs at .040 gap instead of .026 could possibly help the bumpy idle probs caused by siemens 630cc injectors? i would rather buy these than 550's+adapters+4bar fpr :facepalm:


I have the 550's at 4bar. I used to have 630's and experienced the same problems with idle. The 550's have a better spray pattern and when you run them at higher rail pressure you get better atomization of the fuel particles. A stronger spark will help burn the fuel more efficiently but it would still be best to have 550's. 

I may even run the 550's at 5 bar when I get a stronger fuel pump.


----------



## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> I have the 550's at 4bar. I used to have 630's and experienced the same problems with idle. The 550's have a better spray pattern and when you run them at higher rail pressure you get better atomization of the fuel particles. A stronger spark will help burn the fuel more efficiently but it would still be best to have 550's.
> 
> I may even run the 550's at 5 bar when I get a stronger fuel pump.


Those 630 injectors idle like a champ bro.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Three3Se7en said:


> Those 630 injectors idle like a champ bro.


Not for me. 550's all day.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Three3Se7en said:


> Those 630 injectors idle like a champ bro.


$hit:bs:


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

My 630's have idled like butter for 3 years....every 550 I ssee idles like crap

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

My 630s used to idle a little rough until I got my fuel trim adaptation working correctly. Idles smooth now.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Ok let's stop bugging Vegeta Gti and we can all just say I told you so later.

Besides, he has my word when he swaps moods that I will send him coilpacks from the dealer around the corner for the cost increase of a USPS envelope to hawaii.

Same goes for Kamahao (sorry if I butchered it) and any of you island or Alaska folks.

I'm not any sort of business, I constantly lose money on my cars but I can spend 15 minutes driving to the dealer around the corner to help out some guys who would pay 150$ for a set of coils.

I'm editing the first post again slight edit. I'm stalling but I know this thread is so big now I will have to completely redo it and lay it out in a word processor first


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ :thumbup: u 2


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I thought the flat rate boxes were only 48 state's??


----------



## Powdered Toast Man (Feb 16, 2010)

gdoggmoney said:


> Ok let's stop bugging Vegeta Gti and we can all just say I told you so later.
> 
> Besides, he has my word when he swaps moods that I will send him coilpacks from the dealer around the corner for the cost increase of a USPS envelope to hawaii.
> 
> Same goes for Kamahao (sorry if I butchered it) and any of you island or Alaska folks.



those two guys know anytime they need anything all they gotta do is HOLLER!!!!!! i got Chad and Chris.....


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

DMVDUB said:


> I thought the flat rate boxes were only 48 state's??


nope if it fits it ships lol

gdogg and cinnamon toast ... MAHALO :laugh::thumbup:


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

wanna read this later and make sure I can find it


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

hells yeahsss


thanks guys!! just in a financial crush right now, so $150 isn't close to what it costs for us. in order to get 4 new plugs ans 4 of the coils it's more like $375  so we get screwed rather badly lol

i will do this, but i need otehr stuff, like watermeth, a better radiator, a tach adapter, and so on. :beer::beer::beer:


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> I thought the flat rate boxes were only 48 state's??


I didnt notice anyone mention the use of a flat rate envelope.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Hawaii guys should have one of us clean out a local dealer of like 20-30 coils and ship a box packed of them over USPS flate rate, or whatever is cheapest and insured.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Vegeta Gti said:


> thanks guys!! just in a financial crush right now, so $150 isn't close to what it costs for us. in order to get 4 new plugs ans 4 of the coils it's more like $375  so we get screwed rather badly lol
> :


That cheap compared to the local dealers here! And I am only 3 hours north of a US VW Dealership!


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

IS there a different between the TSI and FSI coils, or the MKVI coils? someone on another thread about this subject was saying something about the MKVI being the best to use because it's a ULEV, but I though all the TSi,FSI,and MKVI were ULEV and used the lean burn technology to get the better mpg.

For the record I ordered black FSI coils so that what my tests will be with


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

erevlydeux said:


> Large box is like ~$15. Insurance wouldn't be too bad for a bunch of coils at the cheap prices we can get em for here...


boxes are free or damn close..i think we paid $10 for 40 boxes...you can go to usps online and have them delivered to your door.


$375 is cheap considering i can get brk7e's for $4 from a buddy occasionally...if i paid dealer price their $22 a plug. making it nearly $500 for the coils and plugs..no tax.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

still waiting for someone to test them with a gap test tool...


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Have been too busy lately to make it out to the dyno but I do have some realtime numbers to discuss. Today I through the mk5 coils in my 1.8t and went for a drive. Cruisin on the highway with my cruise control set to 65mph the egt gauge was showing temps of 1120* F ... That was strangely higher than what I remembered so I got off the next exit and popped the 1.8t coils in and did a little lap between exits. I hit cruise control again at 65 mph and the 1.8t coils were holding an egt temp reading of 1060*. It was the same road using roughly the same exact speed and temps were looked at after about a mile of the cruise control being activated.


Nothing crazy scientific but we can def see that the 2.0t coils burn hotter. I'm assuming this is because you are getting a cleaner burn? This is were I'm confused if the cleaner burn would cause higher EGT readings or what? 

I did not have time to do any full throttle runs but I figured I post this finding and open it up for discussion so we can bounce some ideas around.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Very excellent. If you could repeat your egt readings that would be awesome. 

I just got the jetta back together with a gutted exhaust manifold, turbine housing and 3" dp. 

It sounds really really mean. Most open DP 1.8T cars sound like a dump truck, this has some growl.


----------



## zooyork155 (Nov 10, 2003)

spartiati said:


> I did not have time to do any full throttle runs but I figured I post this finding and open it up for discussion so we can bounce some ideas around.


Thank you for posting some empirical data. Conjecture is fine given who's been commenting but data is better.

Higher EGTs definitely indicate a more complete burn of the fuel inside each cylinder (I would assume slightly leaner AF as well) :thumbup:


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Well under light load all I see is 14.8:1 on my o2 sensor. 

Haven't done much full throttle pulls since its the holiday weekend and whatnot. I'll try and get some logs done and compare how the fueling looks. I'll be happier with a slightly leaner afr curve.

When you put actual numbers to something things make much more sense than just "it feels better"

With that said I'd be curious to see what the egt would be at redline. If its 50* hotter on light load at 2500rpms, what will it be at 20psi @7000+ rpms


----------



## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

Sooooo 13 or so odd pages of conjecture and assumptions and not one damn person has put up hard evidence that these make didly sh1t of a difference....god I love Vortex:screwy:


I heard yesterday that if you put squirrel poop in your airbox it makes 40hp more on a stock tune....anyone want to buy some squirrel sh1t?


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

iTech said:


> Sooooo 13 or so odd pages of conjecture and assumptions and not one damn person has put up hard evidence that these make didly sh1t of a difference....god I love Vortex:screwy:


Not sure if you consider being able to run a 0.040 plug gap @ 26 psi when one could only run 0.028 before not a big difference but I think the results speak for themselves.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...il-Pack-Adapters-(TECH-amp-FAQ)-INTRO-PRICING


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i'm not syaing they are not better than 1.8 coils..but i just wanna make sure they can help me..


someone send my poor as a set of these bitches...and some watermeth love...:wave::wave::heart::heart::laugh:


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

wow $70...cheap..coils and plugs??

brk7e's mang. pm me


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

woohoo i think i heard vegeta say hes in.

heres an update. my car is fine. still running strong.
brightgolf (bigblue on audizine) was having issues running rich and having issues between 3 and 4k rpm. the engine would litterally start making an electrical sound as if there was a stun gun in his motor. with the new coilpacks the car is no longer reeking of gas and the hesitation has dissipated. he has also gone to bkr6e @ .040 gap and has had 0 misfires. unfortunately he blew his turbo within 15 minutes of it being installed ( the fins are rubbing the inlet housing) so his car is up on ramps for the next couple of weeks.

next week our plates come in and i can finally relax and not have to look at the 1/2 inch gap. 

40 sets sold and more by the day:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: keep up the good work issam.


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i jsut want the coils and new plugs. not the hold downs. i do like the 1.3...love the box look. 
but i'll be fine without for now. jus wanna try the coils..my car has spread the gap on the plugs 3 times this week. my coils are fine, but plugs...not so much...


----------



## Powdered Toast Man (Feb 16, 2010)

it'll be $11 or so flat rate medium, $14.xx for large.


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

erevlydeux said:


> This isn't the "Shipping & Handling" forum... take that **** somewhere else. :laugh:


ddddddaaayyuuummmmmm


so i was having some misfire issue the last few days...turns out my fuel rail was loose...bigtime...just tightened it...HOLYCOW, i missed my car.

i will respond to yer pm erevly


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

iTech said:


> Sooooo 13 or so odd pages of conjecture and assumptions and not one damn person has put up hard evidence that these make didly sh1t of a difference....god I love Vortex:screwy:
> 
> 
> I heard yesterday that if you put squirrel poop in your airbox it makes 40hp more on a stock tune....anyone want to buy some squirrel sh1t?


Did you read the 13 some odd pages, This Saturday I'm heading to the dyno to test this theory out..

1st run, AWD coils with the plugs that are in my car(run what I brought) NGK gapped at .028
2nd run, MKV FSI coils swapped
3rd run MKV FSi coils w/ new plugs gapped at .040
4th run, back AWD coil/old plugs 

I'll be posted the results Saturday night when i get back, Sunday midday at the latest...

ALL runs with have wideband AFR and nothing in my tune will be changed between runs, just the hardware so we'll be able to see if AFR changes at all with these as well.

I'm planning to log blocks 002,003,115 i figured those would be beest, to get MAf reading, ignition timing and any change in requested boost by the ECU. I'm open to suggest on other blocks to be substituted in but I wanna keep the 3 blocks the same throughout the runs for comparison sake.


----------



## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

INA said:


> Not sure if you consider being able to run a 0.040 plug gap @ 26 psi when one could only run 0.028 before not a big difference but I think the results speak for themselves.
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...il-Pack-Adapters-(TECH-amp-FAQ)-INTRO-PRICING



No actually I don't...all I see there is a bunch of successful sales based on seat of the pants "feel" put up some dyno numbers and I'll call that proof.


----------



## Powdered Toast Man (Feb 16, 2010)

erevlydeux said:


> This isn't the "Shipping & Handling" forum... take that **** somewhere else. :laugh:


he did...... dayum.... LOL.


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser said:


> Did you read the 13 some odd pages, This Saturday I'm heading to the dyno to test this theory out..
> 
> 1st run, AWD coils with the plugs that are in my car(run what I brought) NGK gapped at .028
> 2nd run, MKV FSI coils swapped
> ...



I would atleast do something with overall ignition timing and then block 020. Requested boost wont differ. We care for ignition and timing. I would do 003 011 and 020.020 bring the most important one. If you pull say 6 degrees on stock coils and then only pull only 3 degrees with the 2.0t coils that is a significant gain. Every degree of timing gained can net anything from 8-12hp


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

How old are you? 15? I ask because there was a time when cars had carbs, points and you had prelu more onyour senses and the few things you could watch on gauges real time.


That's certainly the way you come off. If everyone thought that way we'd not had the tools to get the data you whine about.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

gdoggmoney said:


> How old are you? 15? I ask because there was a time when cars had carbs, points and you had prelu more onyour senses and the few things you could watch on gauges real time.
> 
> 
> That's certainly the way you come off. If everyone thought that way we'd not had the tools to get the data you whine about.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: i used to love tuning my dual 48 idf on my 1837 aircooled. all spidey senses no computer.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

05GTIMarine said:


> i used to love tuning my dual 48 idf on my 1837 aircooled. all spidey senses no computer.


Exxxactly.

I've been to many a driveway party where a group of people hang out, and tune some random 1970's F body by ear using a bent fork. We got very good results. That was all 12-15 years ago. 

I think because being an 81 kid, we grew up learning from folks who tuned cars by ear and with rudimentary tools. They passed that on to us. Now it is all data logging and data. Problem is, when those sensors are ****ty or giving bad signals you have no clue where to go and can't pick a problem out by hearing, feeling and observing.


----------



## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

I am actually well over 40 thanks.....however that doesn't mean I shun technology. Comparing point and condenser cars to modern computer controlled ignition systems is a bit of a stretch... There is whole lot more factors that come into play here. My point is....funny how some one says it "feels" faster, with no real hard data, and every one buys into it. I am not saying there is no benefit to these but be damn sure before I drop 200 beans on coils and adapters I'm gonna want proof positive that it is worth the money.....not just interweb hype.

I also set points without a feeler gauge.:laugh:


----------



## Zealot (Mar 9, 2003)

Why are you acting like everyone is saying "OMG these coils add 50HP!!!!" If you reread the thread, the major consensus is that they help the car run more efficiently, since they seem to provide a hotter spark. For some, the smoother idle and ability to run a larger gap is worth the ~$160 for coils and adapters. If it's not worth is to you then skip over the thread next time, or wait till the hard data is posted. Don't come and bash those that are willing to try new things just because you're not willing to do the same.


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

gdoggmoney said:


> Exxxactly.
> 
> I've been to many a driveway party where a group of people hang out, and tune some random 1970's F body by ear using a bent fork. We got very good results. That was all 12-15 years ago.
> 
> I think because being an 81 kid, we grew up learning from folks who tuned cars by ear and with rudimentary tools. They passed that on to us. Now it is all data logging and data. Problem is, when those sensors are ****ty or giving bad signals you have no clue where to go and can't pick a problem out by hearing, feeling and observing.


:thumbup: half the users in here were born in the 90's they dont know about OBDI let alone anything before that


----------



## PhilW (Jan 3, 2006)

spartiati said:


> I would atleast do something with overall ignition timing and then block 020. Requested boost wont differ. We care for ignition and timing. I would do 003 011 and 020.020 bring the most important one. If you pull say 6 degrees on stock coils and then only pull only 3 degrees with the 2.0t coils that is a significant gain. Every degree of timing gained can net anything from 8-12hp


^^^^^ This needs to be done asap.


****, you dont even need a dyno for that.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

iTech said:


> before I drop 200 beans on coils and adapters I'm gonna want proof positive that it is worth the money.


Then dont drop $200 beans...no one is twisting your arm. 
Being able to run a larger gap , better idle and better engine response was enough for me.:thumbup:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

iTech said:


> I am actually well over 40 thanks.....however that doesn't mean I shun technology. Comparing point and condenser cars to modern computer controlled ignition systems is a bit of a stretch... There is whole lot more factors that come into play here. My point is....funny how some one says it "feels" faster, with no real hard data, and every one buys into it. I am not saying there is no benefit to these but be damn sure before I drop 200 beans on coils and adapters I'm gonna want proof positive that it is worth the money.....not just interweb hype.
> 
> I also set points without a feeler gauge.



Well good, then you can trust my judgement some. All the local 20 year old kids would give me **** for swapping plugs weekly on my Eurodyne 1000cc tune saying it was not needed. They can not read plugs and boy did my misfirse go away once non carbon fouled plugs were in that motor.

That is why this thread is huge, because many people have seen a significant difference. Hell if the dyno shows 0 hp gains, I will rest happy with my better idle, better mileage and cooler sounds from the engine under load. 

Also, less time misfiring = faster car and faster revs. This can be felt as being smoother too. Makes sense right? more power, proper timing of combustion events and completion. A hesitation/misfire costs time, even if it is .001 seconds or whatever (pulling this out my butt, not into doing math to figure out combustion window times right now) it is multplied via rpm over time. Time adds up. :beer:


That 68 mustang I backed out of my friends shop last week sure did rev slow, because it was misfiring quite a bit and stumbly. That is time.... and speed, and power, etc..... 

Glad we cleared this up  Now buy a set and drink the kool aid. The cool kids are doing it, and etc.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

iTech said:


> I heard yesterday that if you put squirrel poop in your airbox it makes 40hp more on a stock tune....anyone want to buy some squirrel sh1t?


I can verify this is *not* true. Actually I noticed quite the oppostite affect after removing the squirrel poop and acorns from my wifes airbox.

Edited for incorrect info ...

Regardless I needed coils and I like the pretty red


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I have seen only a .026 800hp pull from Pete with these unless I missed it.


People, PM me your results with gap, hp and etc. I will add it to my mega first post update to come.


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## Zealot (Mar 9, 2003)

Any word on the adapters Pete was working on?


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

gdoggmoney said:


> I have seen only a .026 800hp pull from Pete with these unless I missed it.
> 
> 
> People, PM me your results with gap, hp and etc. I will add it to my mega first post update to come.


Waiting for that...


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Isaam is producing the adapters, check the thread in this forum zealot.

I updated the first post a little bit to hopefully explain it better, and clear things up.


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## Zealot (Mar 9, 2003)

gdoggmoney said:


> Isaam is producing the adapters, check the thread in this forum zealot.
> 
> I updated the first post a little bit to hopefully explain it better, and clear things up.


I'm aware of Isaam's , but Pete was also working on a version



[email protected] said:


> Looks like we will have a glut of these plates here shortly because these should be done in the next week or so:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## nofearhawk (Aug 6, 2010)

Zealot said:


> I'm aware of Isaam's , but Pete was also working on a version


IE said if you want the raw finished they are ready NOW, if you want the red anodized you have to wait 2-3 weeks.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Looks like we will have a glut of these plates here shortly because these should be done in the next week or so:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Fin. 










http://www.intengineering.com/Integrated-Engineering-p9602226.html


In stock and shipping now. I'll try to get a pick on a cylinder head here shortly as well. Ours are fully faced & machined on all sides, not just profiled out. :thumbup:

PS: Red is coming, out for anodize now.


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## dixongli (Sep 24, 2007)

Have any of you guys running 18+ psi with a MBC/ diode tried a 4bar fpr with the 2.0t coils? 

Could that f*** anything up?
My plans are to run
3"opendown pipe, Turbo inlet pipe, intake, MBC at 20psi, 4bar fpr, 2.0t coils, bkr7e gaped at .042.

Does anyone have any clue/ educated guess as to what power I would make?

Car mk4 gli.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

dixongli said:


> Have any of you guys running 18+ psi with a MBC/ diode tried a 4bar fpr with the 2.0t coils?
> 
> Could that f*** anything up?
> My plans are to run
> ...


Soooo... Your just gonna throw that schit on there with no tuning, a.d expect to make power?

(1) diode mod doesnt work on gli's, or 20th's... Fact

(2) get a tune

(3) the 4 bar doesnt make more power by itself. (see #(2) )

(4) YOU dont NEED this mod at all

(5) the search function is > YOU

(6) the faq is > YOU


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## dixongli (Sep 24, 2007)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Soooo... Your just gonna throw that schit on there with no tuning, a.d expect to make power?
> 
> (1) diode mod doesnt work on gli's, or 20th's... Fact because I'm a retard.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you the one that need the search function.
I've been running the mbc/diode for over 2years.

The FPR was for higher boost.
Higher boost = more air
More air means you need more fuel.
More fuel,air, and larger spark (from new coils) means more power.
Sounds like your mad.....has someone beat you with my setup? When you spent money on high dollar parts?

I have a buddy with a gli that has full tb 42DD 3" exhaust, revo stage1, some 200 dollar cai, forge TIP, lower IC pipe, and pulleys. 
I pulled him by half a car with my setup with out the FPR and Coils.

My downpipe is ebay. ($87)
I have a cone fillter on the MAF ($25)
And my tip is from Pwrhaus ($95)
My MBC is homedepo made ($7)
My diode is from radio shack($0.75)

Like I've said before ill get a reflash when Uni comes to Houston. But thanx for your input....lol.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

In theory only.. On an me7 ecu nope.. How are you TUNING it to accept the increased fuel pressure ASSHAT??

If you knew schit about schit, you'd know that the ecu will read the OVERLY RICH condition at idle/part throttle from the primary o2 sensor, and freak out, run like schit, limp, etc...


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## dixongli (Sep 24, 2007)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> In theory only.. On an me7 ecu nope.. How are you TUNING it to accept the increased fuel pressure ASSHAT??
> 
> If you knew schit about schit, you'd know that the ecu will read the OVERLY RICH condition at idle/part throttle from the primary o2 sensor, and freak out, run like schit, limp, etc...


In theory what? I have a 04 Jetta Gli with the 1.8t and 6speed. No theory here about the Mbc/diode.

I would be running logs with a friend on vagcom to see how it act with the FPR. Just thought I would ask if anyone else is running that setup. 
If the car runs rich that's fine ill take off the fpr not a big deal.
You might wanna go back and read some on the thread. If I'm not mistaken I'm not the only one with a MBC/diode.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

dixongli said:


> In theory what? I have a 04 Jetta Gli with the 1.8t and 6speed. No theory here about the Mbc/diode.
> 
> I would be running logs with a friend on vagcom to see how it act with the FPR. Just thought I would ask if anyone else is running that setup.
> If the car runs rich that's fine ill take off the fpr not a big deal.
> You might wanna go back and read some on the thread. If I'm not mistaken I'm not the only one with a MBC/diode.


From one mk4 owner to another: please go back to the mk4 forum and stop cluttering this thread with your nonsense. Thank you.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

@ D!Cks ON gli

Diode doesnt work on the 6 speed gli ecu's breh.. 

Get a ****ing clue.. You just got caught talking out your ass; you schit talking, [email protected], panty wearing, salad tossing, "skinny jean" sporting, plaid headliner havin, emo haircut luvin, butt plug stuffin, rainbow flag waving, RuPaul wannabe [email protected]


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## dixongli (Sep 24, 2007)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> From one mk4 owner to another: please go back to the mk4 forum and stop cluttering this thread with your nonsense. Thank you.


Why you mad? When I post nonsense ill go


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## dixongli (Sep 24, 2007)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Diode doesnt work on the 6 speed gli ecu's breh..
> 
> Get a ****ing clue.. You just got caught talking out your ass; you schit talking, [email protected], panty wearing, salad tossing, "skinny jean" sporting, plaid headliner havin, emo haircut luvin, butt plug stuffin, rainbow flag waving, RuPaul wannabe [email protected]


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## dixongli (Sep 24, 2007)

I must be driving a imaginary car then....yea that's what it is.
Look up dixonsi on YouTube. My car runs just fine with a mbc


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Look you up on youtube... You mean the a$$hat street racing? :banghead::screwy:


You race an Integra and you think you're fast? A STOCK 1.8t will beat a 'teg

You race a Civic with a fartcan.... Still SLOW. 

You have lost all respect by showing you're so irresponsible as to be racing on the street. Grow up an keep it to the track. :wave:

BTW- I GUARANTEE my K03s 5spd Jetta with a Unitronic stg 2 tune is faster than your diode car. 

Sorry yo get off topic, but the vids were annoying.eace:


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## dixongli (Sep 24, 2007)

DMVDUB said:


> Look you up on youtube... You mean the a$$hat street racing? :banghead::screwy:
> 
> 
> You race an Integra and you think you're fast? A STOCK 1.8t will beat a 'teg
> ...


Never said my car was fast. Hell one of the vids title was "battle of the slow cars"
I'm sure you 1.8t with stage 2 is faster then mine......I said I would reflash when Uni came to houston. 
I did race and have a civic with a fart can. It was my toy and it was fun as hell. A B20vtec with type r piston and a b16 head worked over with ctr cams. Dynoed on mustang dyno made 211whp and 157wtq.car weight with me in it was 2632lbs after weight reduction.
That civic with a fart can would guarantee would be faster then your 5spd jetta.
By the way that tegg was a b20v as well not a normal tegg.
I did not tell you to look them up to show you how fast I am or am not. It was to prove that you sir are a ethug and don't know ****. My car runs just fine with a diode as stated before.
But its not going to ruin my day if you don't approve of what I think or do.

Back on topic:


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## Powdered Toast Man (Feb 16, 2010)

dixongli @ 9:32PM said:


> It was to prove that you sir are a ethug and don't know ****. My car runs just fine with a diode as stated before.


no, actually you said this; that your car runs fine with an mbc.... well you said "a mbc" which is grammatically incorrect. never-the-less, i just wanted to point out that you are wrong.



dixongli @ 8:46PM said:


> I must be driving a imaginary car then....yea that's what it is.
> Look up dixonsi on YouTube. My car runs just fine with a mbc



i could really care less about this issue or topic, just watching it cuz i am bored. i run a 9 plug @ .018 to .020 on the 115r.... but then again i dont make much power or do anything really cool. i may change it to be in the "in-crowd". nah....

opcorn:


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> @ D!Cks ON gli
> 
> Diode doesnt work on the 6 speed gli ecu's breh..
> 
> Get a ****ing clue.. You just got caught talking out your ass; *you schit talking, [email protected], panty wearing, salad tossing, "skinny jean" sporting, plaid headliner havin, emo haircut luvin, butt plug stuffin, rainbow flag waving, RuPaul wannabe [email protected]*


*
*

LMFAO....rolling on the desert flooor!


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

dubin is my hero.


cinnamon toast crunch : take your POS 4ring(a ring ring) outta here you lame bastard :heart::wave:

we all know your version of a 1.8t is a solid lifter old skool mess :wave:


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

As much as I would love to get into the fact that a 4bar without a 4 bar tune is just wasting fuel all over the place and losing you power, that not what this thread is about. But here is a tip, if you muti trim on block 032 is more then -16% then you gain nothing from a 4bar even with a tune as the car wants to pull out all that extra fuel. Running anything over -/+10% will set a code in the computer any how, and the ecu will take precautions try and fix the problem it sees, I'll include a full mod list when I post the dyno results of my test saturday but for piece of mind I am running a 4 bar with a Malone 4 bar tune =)


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

WoW... not only is dixongli's car ghetto modded and probably runs worse then stock. all the cars he is racing he could beat stock. If you ask me his car is actually running poor against those cars. 

and u shouldnt be street racing to begin with. That right there shows your age and immaturity.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Guys take it PM... No need to get this thread locked.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

im gonna snag me a set of these coils soon as i can:thumbup: dont get the thread locked, great job OP again:beer::thumbup:


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

erevlydeux said:


> Vegeta is gonna have a set of these coils by mid to end of next week, so we'll see if they pass judgement from the most skeptical person here.


 :thumbup::thumbup: finally hes joining the train


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Stop arguing up this thread.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

somebody needs to get a room and get it over with already...


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

I have been running Hitachi Es and with BKR7EIX gapped at .25 since i've had my frankenturbo installed. And my acceleration has been hit or miss. some times a slight stumble or miss on high rev runs. 

Any thing larger then .25 on Hitachi Es generated misfires. 

FYI BKR7EIX come gapped at .29-.30. 

so today just for the hell of it i dropped in a new set of BKR7EIX gapped at .29-.30 and my misfires returned. 

Friday I expect my shipment of of BLACK MKVI TSI Coil Packs - 06H 905 115 to be in. 
i ordered from 1stvwparts and didnt realize UPS is now taking 5 days to ship to NY from Washington :banghead: 

I will run my BKR7EIX stock gapped and i would love to see these MKVI coils run my the BKR7EIX plugs on the stock gap with zero misses and better performance 

I will check in on friday mid-day and let every one know. opcorn:


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

This is just my quick input and there are about 5 more pages on this thread than the last time i checked but i tried to go back and read them and i almost lost my mind with how much arguing about nothing and talking about shipping charges that i figured skipping them i wouldn't miss much. So if i'm repeating info, i apologize. 

About a week ago i started misfiring at around 16psi after my exhaust had been rich (did not log, exhaust scent only), and my sound system had some distortion. I've been around this block numerous times before (probably been through 12 coil packs at least, i neglect to change my spark plugs as often as i should and its probably raising the resistance in the ignition system extra heating the COP's causing them to die so often on me) so i knew it was time for new COP's. I hopped on here since i havent been for many many months, maybe even more than a year, to see if any new solutions have come up for this problem. I saw this thread and thought id give the MK VI coils a try. I went with these due to the extra sheilding, etc they have. They simply seem to be the best and most rugged design. Before i go further, my relevant (mostly) motor specs: 

-20th ae GTi (awp 1.8t) 
-PAG kit 2871r 
-Brute rods 
-Maestro set to mafless w/630cc injectors 
-eurojet race fmic 
-rmr manifold w/75mm tb 
-Autolite's BKR7e equivalent plugs (the number escapes me) 

When i threw these in my car the fitment wasn't that bad and i DO NOT have any adapters. Yes, they stuck up higher but they don't even really look out of place and they were very firmly in place. I replaced my spark plugs at the same time (they were nasty but a proper color). I tossed the old COP's in a plastic bag, put them in my car, and headed for the Delaware beaches for the weekend. Like captain Ron said, "if anything's gonna happen, it'll happen out there." I was with my g/f so i did not log but i do have some observations and can (may) do logs in the future. My goals were a little different than what most seem to be looking for on here. All i am interested in is a reliable COP that is plug-and-play that is not more expensive than the stock COP's, that's it. 

Observations: 

- I read a few people talk about their idle being improved, sounding meatier, better gas mileage, less hesitation and more power off boost. I notices all of these, as well *BUT* it was exactly the same result as every other time i replaced my COP's with new ones (1.8t r-revisions). I'm sure whats happening is people are not used to doing this and the motor's performance degrades to this state so slowly over time that it is not noticed until it becomes a nuisance and once fixed, people feel their car is "better than with stock hardware" when really its just back to "normal" 

- Never once on my 400+ miles of driving did the Mk VI coils come loose or even loosen at all. I checked them repeatedly. I will continue to monitor but i really doubt any modification is needed to run these, at least with the awp valve cover. I'm sure they will seat with a better surround by running an adapter but there really isn't room for dirt or grime to get into the valve cover/spark plug passage and if the problem with these things is heat burning them out, i actually like not having the metal collar around COP as i would imagine it will cool more effectively without it (until i'm proven wrong by my own or someone else's experience that is). 

- NO sense of increased power anywhere on-boost (off boost, yes. But again, no different than a fresh pair of r-revisions) 

- I did widen the gap to .03 from .028 that i always ran and had no issues at about 22-24psi but i never ran .03 with r-revisions, so this is more just a comment than any real data. 

While i believe by inspecting the design that these are more rugged, especially the mk vi versions with the additional sheilding around the shaft, and may prove to be a great option for anyone who has had chronic COP failures, I doubt these are going to prove any real serious performance upgrades, save for the ability to run a larger gap, if that does prove to be possible and realistic after some of these guys get their testing done. I'm not trying to persuade or dissuade anyone from these or suggest anyone is wrong or right or that adapters are or are not important to use when running these, i'm just giving my observations and opinions, do what you will with them. I have less than 1,000 miles on them right now, also, so keep in mind this is very preliminary. 

Edit: I would like it to be noted, some believe a COP is only bad when idle becomes a serious issue, etc. such as an idle that sounds like a WRX. I have found a COP can "start" to go bad. Every type of driving is normal except WOT which causes misfires. I only encountered this after i went BT. I have never actually had a COP go out to the extent that my idle sounded "rexxy" and the old "pull a COP and see if the horrible sound stays the same or gets worse and if it stays the same, thats the bad COP" never worked for me since they never got to that point. I have only ever had a COP misfire to the point at which it truly impairs driving at WOT, but its happened NUMEROUS times to me. This is truly annoying when that cocky as$ in the sti/evo (or AMG or M-series) pulls up next to you and has no idea what a built 1.8t can do and you're stuck without WOT to teach him/her a lesson.


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

checkdalevel said:


> I have been running Hitachi Es and with BKR7EIX gapped at .25 since i've had my frankenturbo installed. And my acceleration has been hit or miss. some times a slight stumble or miss on high rev runs.
> 
> Any thing larger then .25 on Hitachi Es generated misfires.
> 
> ...


 I look forward to hearing your results as I am using Hitachi E's as well.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Just for sh!ts an giggles (mostly giggles) I regapped my plugs last night on my stock 1.8t coils. Whatever the newest revision push downs are. Well, the point is their gapped at .038 right now and running strong. 

I Just want to see if the normal packs can handle it and for how long. Strangely enough I noticed the car being peppier with more tip in response, even on stock coils. 

So... is there really a point in changing coils? If they blow from the gap, I'll try the new ones. If they don't, then what's the point? 

We still haven't seen or heard from anybody with true technical proof of what is in the newer coils compared to the old ones. Just because they may outlast the others doesn't really mean the spark is hotter. If I can run close to / or the same gap that pretty much proves that... 

With all the engineer's and such, nobody knows what the actual output of the old vs the new is? 

(Not trying to be completely hard headed, I'll be getting some of the new ones when mine die I like red)


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

DMVDUB said:


> Just for sh!ts an giggles (mostly giggles) I regapped my plugs last night on my stock 1.8t coils. Whatever the newest revision push downs are. Well, the point is their gapped at .038 right now and running strong.
> 
> I Just want to see if the normal packs can handle it and for how long. Strangely enough I noticed the car being peppier with more tip in response, even on stock coils.
> 
> ...


 Because Bosch won't release the actual technical data. They need to be tested with the proper tool which nobody seems to own or has time to use.


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

good observation snubbs64.... 

i am starting to think i wated 85 dollars on the adapters. apparently these are not needed since you in a few other vortexers i know are running the mk5/mk6 coil. 

it sticks out a little bit more but seems to fit securely enough. 

My fear is that hitachi Es are inferior and that will people run them because of reliability. 

I want to run a pop-in coil that doesn't brake while giving me a cleaner hotter spark


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

checkdalevel said:


> good observation snubbs64....
> 
> i am starting to think i wated 85 dollars on the adapters. apparently these are not needed since you in a few other vortexers i know are running the mk5/mk6 coil.
> 
> ...


 Are the Hitachi E's inferior because they put out a weaker spark and therefore last longer? I am running 2 original Hitachi E's with 142K miles on my car. That's crazy reliability lol.


----------



## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Are the Hitachi E's inferior because they put out a weaker spark and therefore last longer? I am running 2 original Hitachi E's with 142K miles on my car. That's crazy reliability lol.


 They are definitely reliable. no question about that. 

i have to gap my plugs at .25 in order for my hitachi Es to work and even then the car feels flat on top. i swear like its even missing or hesitating at times. 

man i wish today was friday so i can try out these mk6 coils and give you guys a definite answer.


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

checkdalevel said:


> They are definitely reliable. no question about that.
> 
> i have to gap my plugs at .25 in order for my hitachi Es to work and even then the car feels flat on top. i swear like its even missing or hesitating at times.
> 
> man i wish today was friday so i can try out these mk6 coils and give you guys a definite answer.


 My car would break up really bad at high boost running Hitachi E's. I am not sure if it was a problem with the coilpacks or my old coil harness though. I ordered 2 new hitachi E's and a new harness. This way I will have 4 new hitachi E's (less than a year old) and a new harness. We will see how it runs after that. Otherwise I will order some mk6 coils and an AWP valve cover.


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

Just a thought, and i have no real way to test this, but i do remember reading somewhere, maybe even earlier in this thread that someone took apart the different (referring to the 1.8t's and various 2.0t iterations) COP's and they were very similar or identical internally. Is it possible that the r-revisions can actually produce the same level of power (volts) and can run the same gap as the 2.0t MK V or VI when all are new but the 1.8t's due to (based only on appearance) a seemingly inferior sheilding degrade much more rapidly from heat exposure and thus the assumption is that there is something about the internal hardware that makes the mk v+vi COP's more powerful when really they simply resist degradation much better? Especially since the degradation of the r-revisions has seemed to be a continuum rather than a "they either entirely work or they don't work at all" type of thing. I've heard of some people being able to run the larger gaps that almost everyone else seems to think is impossible with the 1.8t's COP. Is it possible they aren't full of crap but might actually fall into this category of a "healthier" 1.8t COP? Maybe not at all, but i thought i might raise the issue to those who know much more about these motors than I.


----------



## Weehe (Apr 2, 2010)

Ok I have a passat with ATW engine, does anyone know if this will work or if there is a 2.0t coil that has the screw in rather than snap in?


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

Mine come in tomorrow. Depending on what time I get them I'll try to get some logs as requested. I need to replace my wiring harness as well but that will have to wait until a later date as I won't have time to do it in the near future.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

did some more testing tonight some back to back logs with just swapping coils. No energy to look at logs so will post data tomorrow. EGT at redline seems 70-90* hotter with the 2.0t coils vs the 1.8t coils. 

(2.0T)1560 vs 1480(1.8T) 

Both were quick 3rd gear pulls to whatever rpm I could get up to on my private road


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i'll probably dyno with mine, just get em in and wait till i can do watermeth. first pull stock coils .024 gap. 

then do second and third pulls with new coils and a .032 gap..seems like a good number to me lol


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Vegeta Gti said:


> i'll probably dyno with mine, just get em in and wait till i can do watermeth. first pull stock coils .024 gap.
> 
> then do second and third pulls with new coils and a .032 gap..seems like a good number to me lol


 I may get a dyno in as soon as saturday and plan to do one, back to back run. Wanna throw in my vr6 65mm throttle body ive had in the trunk since last year and get maestro tuned with it. With that said I logged yesterdays runs and had Doug from Frankenturbo chart the data. Maestro has a sample rate of 20samples per second so you get tons of data for a quick pull. 

runs 1 and 2 were 2.0t coils and run 3 was 1.8t coils. This was done within 7 minutes of one another between coil swaps. My spark plugs are BKR8EIX gapped to .025. 


 


 
Timing pull relatively uniform. If you look at the actual log the 2.0t maybe had .75 - 1.5* less timing correctin at certain spots. 

 
Here is a log of boost and maf readings. My file is normally run mafless but I enabled it just to add another data set to the mix. With that said the car def runs richer with the maf plugged in so disregard the rich section in the midrange. Interesting observation is that there is slightly higher g/s readings in the midrange with the 2.0t vs 1.8t coilpacks. Maybe the cleaner burn creates more of a vacuum on the intake stroke and thus can get more air into the combustion chamber (IE: slight and I mean SLIGHT increase in volumetric efficiency?) 

Hopefully we can get a clearer picture from the dataset. It doesnt look to be anything huge (not that I was expecting a night and day difference). I guess any little bit helps though! Final test will be on the dyno to see concrete evidence of if they make more power or not. From the way the data looks I would anticipate maybe 5whp at best. 

I will try and do a long term testing on fuel efficiency and compare one coilpack vs the next. 

Let's gets some constructive criticism now that we have some numbers we can compare.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

:thumbup: awesome info there thanks!


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

spartiati said:


> I may get a dyno in as soon as saturday and plan to do one, back to back run. Wanna throw in my vr6 65mm throttle body ive had in the trunk since last year and get maestro tuned with it. With that said I logged yesterdays runs and had Doug from Frankenturbo chart the data. Maestro has a sample rate of 20samples per second so you get tons of data for a quick pull.
> 
> runs 1 and 2 were 2.0t coils and run 3 was 1.8t coils. This was done within 7 minutes of one another between coil swaps. My spark plugs are BKR8EIX gapped to .025.
> 
> ...


 
I guess this is the results I would expect, you should do the same thing except compare increase the GAP in the plugs. From this thread that seems to be the main point of going to the other coil. It provides the ability to increase gap.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^exactly:thumbup:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Yes, a better burn will create more power. So will a wider gap with a stronger spark!


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

im really looking at the numbers up to 4k rpm as i dont go crazy with my car. the coilpacks seemed to pull less timing. so wouldnt that result in a better running low end? i dont know much when it comes to charts and whatnot.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I wish Maestro had a dataset for EGTs. That way we could confirm the higher burn temperatures you saw on your gauge during the pulls. And if the EGTs are raised, then that means something is changed with the spark without even changing the gap.


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

My Mk6s coils should be here today. 

I checked the gap on brand new stock NGK BKR7EIX and they are .29/.30. 

I am going to try and run them on the MK6 coils without messing with the gap. 

I will let every one know around lunch


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

slappy_dunbar said:


> I wish Maestro had a dataset for EGTs. That way we could confirm the higher burn temperatures you saw on your gauge during the pulls. And if the EGTs are raised, then that means something is changed with the spark without even changing the gap.


 The way i came up with those maximum numbers is by clearing the memory on my egt gauge, making a pull and then checking max recorded temp. Then cleared the max setting changed coils and retested. Not super scientific but just giving us some kind of numbers.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Why maestro to confirm? I would not trust maestro to confirm the sky is blue. 

I'd trust a real thermocouple and a pyrometer over that pile of garbage any day.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

There is nothing wrong with maestro. Works perfectly for me. 

Egt readings ARE with a THERMOCOUPLE and PYROMETER. Not calculated or read through the ecu.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Glad it does, I was an early user and Maestro set my car on fire 1000 miles from home thanks to poor coding by Chris Tapp. I have awesome scars on my hands from putting it out and got the run around. Maestro = crap. At the time the wizards calculated improper values, my ECU was bricked twice having to be sent to canada so he could unlock it. I went through at least 5+ updates and never worked right. 

I'll stick with ripping my own flash image and modifying it myself with tools out there. 


And yes, I understand you used a real gauge and thermocouple which I would trust those results over maestro readings anyday. What happens when your sensor is reporting funny thing, garbage coding aside? 

A thermocouple is a reliable device.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^damn


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

checkdalevel said:


> My Mk6s coils should be here today.
> 
> I checked the gap on brand new stock NGK BKR7EIX and they are .29/.30.
> 
> ...


 Okay so installed my new mk6 coils along with brand new BKR7EIX (stock gapped) 

car pulled amazing through the rev band... no hesitation no misses. 

So what do we know now... 

They make a hotter spark then hitachi Es 
You can run BKR7EIX on stock gaps with the mk6 coils. 

FYI... to be safe i gapped the BKR7EIX down .28 even though they were running perfectly fine with stock gap of .29-.30


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

open the gap to .40 bro, why run a smaller gap if you dont have to?


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Big_Tom said:


> open the gap to .40 bro, why run a smaller gap if you dont have to?


 .040 or go home lol. glad more and more are running the coils and having same results. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

Big_Tom said:


> open the gap to .40 bro, why run a smaller gap if you dont have to?


 yeh??? even if the BKR7EIX come gapped at .30 from the factory ?


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

yep we gapped my buddies a4 1.8t to .043 and had no misfires. and they were bkr7eix as well. i will try .045 and .050 when my car is up and running. i blew a hole in my downpipe the other day. anyone got a spare??


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

I have a OEM one, for the price of the scrap cat you can have it.


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

Mine just got delivered. I'll push my plugs out to .30 and install the coils in a few. I don't think I'll be able to log today though.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

05GTIMarine said:


> yep we gapped my buddies a4 1.8t to .043 and had no misfires. and they were bkr7eix as well. i will try .045 and .050 when my car is up and running. i blew a hole in my downpipe the other day. anyone got a spare??


 blew a hole in the downpipe? with these new coils? possible due to the excessive high temps? or other reasons? 

Sorry to hear about your experience with maestro. I would feel the same way you do if I went through that. Thankfully they sorted all that out now that I'm futching around with it.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

spartiati said:


> blew a hole in the downpipe? with these new coils? possible due to the excessive high temps? or other reasons?
> 
> Sorry to hear about your experience with maestro. I would feel the same way you do if I went through that. Thankfully they sorted all that out now that I'm futching around with it.


 no it was a used downpipe as i sold my turboback. the flexpipe has a hole in it so its undriveable until i get a new one or get a flexpipe to repair it. anyone know what the diameter of the downpipe is at the flexpipe??


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^get a new downpipe from EBAY they're like 100 shipped


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

Ok, keep in mind that my wiring harness still needs to be replaced. 

My previous coils (R's) are a little over two years old. Hadn't noticed any issues with that, but evidently I may have been wrong. Popped the new MKVI coils in and gapped my BKR7's out to .035, I may bump them out to .040 later. I took the car for a quick spin and noticed a few things: 

-Car feels much smoother 
-Much more low end power, the car feels like it did in the dead of winter instead of 95* 
-Smoother through the whole rpm range 

It definitely feels like it picked up ~10hp. I didn't expect that much of a difference, even after reading this whole thread. 

One thing to note, they don't fit my AWM engine very well. They almost feel like they're at a slightly wrong angle (very slight). I don't think it'll cause an issue, just something to note. 

One thing I thought about after looking at them, is the metal at the bottom of the coil used to ground the coil pack out on the valve cover? If not, could you trim the end down to where it's even with the plastic? That should remove most of the space that's causing the CP to stick above the valve cover. If it's used to ground obviously that won't work, it was just a thought.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

05Gti Marine. You want my ported k03s ported manifold and 3" ebay downpipe? 


I'm picking up a 3076R kit for my daily jetta this weekend. 

I have had the downpipe on since sunday and it's not fast enough for me lol. 



I'll give it all to you cheap :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

checkdalevel said:


> Okay so installed my new mk6 coils along with brand new BKR7EIX (stock gapped)
> 
> car pulled amazing through the rev band... no hesitation no misses.


 What's your EGT gauge show? Higher temps like spartiati's? You should log 033-031 to make sure the fuel mixture is good and the ECU is happy with the burn.


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## RDE38 (Aug 16, 2001)

Ok I'm definitely picking up a set. Has anyone sourced the cheapest place to buy the MkVI coils? 

edit...$61 for the Mk6 coils also from 1stvwparts. Went ahead and ordered a set.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Camride, both portions of the coil are grounded seperately via 2 of the 4 pins. One is signal to fire, the other is +12v supply. The other 2 are grounds. Check for continuity... perhaps, but I don't think the case requires any grounding. 

Again we have no clue, as with anything Bosch/VW getting specs is like figuring out cold fusion.


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## Weehe (Apr 2, 2010)

I am very interested in getting these but have a fitting/functioning question: Will these work with an ATW engine? The ATW doesn't have a snap in coil, rather a screw in. Am i just missing this here and it will work fine, or will this only work for the snap ins. Here is a link to a stock coil for ATW if you don't know what I am talking about 

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Passat_B5-FWD-1.8T/Engine/Ignition/ES263931/


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

slappy_dunbar said:


> What's your EGT gauge show? Higher temps like spartiati's? You should log 033-031 to make sure the fuel mixture is good and the ECU is happy with the burn.


 Doug, i will monitor EGTs on the way home from work.


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

gdoggmoney said:


> Camride, both portions of the coil are grounded seperately via 2 of the 4 pins. One is signal to fire, the other is +12v supply. The other 2 are grounds. Check for continuity... perhaps, but I don't think the case requires any grounding.
> 
> Again we have no clue, as with anything Bosch/VW getting specs is like figuring out cold fusion.


 I may try to trim down one of my old coils as a test and see what happens. If that works I think it'd be a lot easier to trim that metal with a dremel rather than buy adapters.


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## PhilW (Jan 3, 2006)

Any more 020 logs before and after with just coil change then a larger gap?


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## jbrehm (May 16, 2006)

Weehe said:


> I am very interested in getting these but have a fitting/functioning question: Will these work with an ATW engine? The ATW doesn't have a snap in coil, rather a screw in. Am i just missing this here and it will work fine, or will this only work for the snap ins. Here is a link to a stock coil for ATW if you don't know what I am talking about
> 
> http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Passat_B5-FWD-1.8T/Engine/Ignition/ES263931/


 
I have the same valve cover, and they fit fine - the only difference is in the mounting surface on the actual VC. Issam's (INA Engineeering) V1.3 spacers are what you require (if you want the spacers). The 2.0T packs fit quite snugly on the spark plugs, so the spacers are really only to keep stuff from getting in there.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

got the new coils and plugs sitting in my room... getting antsy to put them in but gonna wait till I'm on the dyno on saturday. 

I'll be logging 002 - 020 - 033 for my runs


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

On the ride home from work today... 

i noticed 50F lower on my egt guage. 

I am using a new south EGT guage tapped at the exhaust manifold. 

i was really beating on it to test out the coils and make sure i wasnt getting any misfires. 

next thing u know the lower boost hose that connects the charge pipe to the pancake pipe blew off. 

any body know the size t bolt clamp i would need down there?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

checkdalevel said:


> On the ride home from work today...
> 
> i noticed 50F lower on my egt guage.
> 
> ...


 Lower? At cruise? Full load?


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

spartiati said:


> Lower? At cruise? Full load?


 yeh lower across the board


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

checkdalevel said:


> On the ride home from work today...
> 
> i noticed 50F lower on my egt guage.
> 
> ...


 It's a 2.25 I believe.


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> It's a 2.25 I believe.


 thank you much i ordered a bunch of t-bolts for my intercooler and GHL pancake pipe. 

To make matters worse the widow maker collapsed on me :facepalm: 

i had a feeling that was going to happen and shoved the spare tire under the car.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ dayum! good thinkin throwing the spare under there. dude get a hydraulic floor jack, it think i got mine for 19.99 on sale from autozone a few years back. so worth it


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

Big_Tom said:


> ^^^ dayum! good thinkin throwing the spare under there. dude get a hydraulic floor jack, it think i got mine for 19.99 on sale from autozone a few years back. so worth it


 I have one... what do u do when you are driving home from work? 

Does it make sense to keep the hydraulic jack in the trunk just in case. 

I am going to steal a real jack from an other car maker as my emergency jack


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

Camride said:


> I may try to trim down one of my old coils as a test and see what happens. If that works I think it'd be a lot easier to trim that metal with a dremel rather than buy adapters.


 This makes no difference, don't bother.


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

Ok, I just did some logs. I'm not good at the graph thing so I'll just share the spreadsheet out: 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...VYC-pdFdBY3dBWlZZbHBYeFVQWExEUEptenc&hl=en_US 

It's hot and humid out and I'm still running my stock SMIC. :screwy: Haven't had a chance to install my FMIC yet. 

Anyway, I'm getting less timing retard even with 80*C intake temps than I was in the dead of winter with 50*C intake temps. No misfires now either (hit those around 5800rpm before).


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

checkdalevel said:


> I have one... what do u do when you are driving home from work?
> 
> Does it make sense to keep the hydraulic jack in the trunk just in case.
> 
> I am going to steal a real jack from an other car maker as my emergency jack


 sometimes i keep mine in the trunk, i have enough horses that im not concerned w/ that little extra weight.  i just like to be prepared. i also keep all the common sockets and wrench sizes for vw w/ me and also 2 spare coil packs. i hate paying tow truck drivers to scrape the bottom of my car :facepalm:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

hate to break it to everyone but back to back dynos proved no difference in power in any point of the powerband. I'll post everything up tonight. Too much running around to get done to post up the data.


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

spartiati said:


> hate to break it to everyone but back to back dynos proved no difference in power in any point of the powerband. I'll post everything up tonight. Too much running around to get done to post up the data.


 whom whom whommmmm:laugh:


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

I'm convinced there are a lot more wounded COP's than most realize around the 1.8t world with how many people are having better results from these who have had 1.8t COP's on their car for any extended period of time. Unless both the 1.8t and 2.0t COP's are fresh out of the box when tested, its no where near scientific enough for me to believe any conclusion can be drawn by the 2.0t COP's are better or stronger than 1.8t COP's. I'd like to see someone who thinks they are getting better performance out of the 2.0t's run the COP's they've had on their car for the past however long, a NEW set of revision-r's and then the 2.0t's. I'd bet little to no difference between the new revision-r's and 2.0t's COP performance, but both being a vast improvement over whatever COP's have been running on that vehicle for a while. I would love to be proven wrong, however. But when it comes down to it, if these resist degradation/failure better, i'll still be ecstatic, i'm sick of replacing them!


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

spartiati said:


> hate to break it to everyone but back to back dynos proved no difference in power in any point of the powerband. I'll post everything up tonight. Too much running around to get done to post up the data.


 we knew that there wouldnt be any improvement in power we are looking at sustainability. being able to have a reliable coilpack source that can last a road trip across country, or beating the piss out of the engine at drags/races on a daily basis. 

brightgolf was having issues with brand new coilpacks and a .032 gap not being able to create a complete burn and would spit fuel out the ass end of his car and a hesitation between 3500 and 4000 rpm. now he is $ .040 and mk6 2.0t coilpacks and these problems have gone away, plus his idle is super smooth as well. 

i personally noticed the same smooth idle as well running at .040 gap 

none of you brainiacs have answered my previous ? 

would pulling less timing improve how the car runs? 

i noticed in the timing chart that the 2.0t coilpacks had a vastly different timing plot.


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## joker5k1 (Aug 13, 2008)

sparti: 

is there any chance of you posting the dyno charts? I don't doubt that there wasn't a change in peak numbers. If there was it only shows the previous coils were shot in my opinion. however, if ignition timing has changed I'd like to see if the curves are any different. Thank you for taking the time to dyno them for everyone. 

If timing has changed this should hopefully "smooth" out the power band... Though again, even a longer lasting coil is an improvement .


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

joker5k1 said:


> is there any chance of you posting the dyno charts?


 Well, here it is...


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Those were back to back runs. Hey not saying they aren't a good mod. I personallt just never had an issue with any of my 1.8t coils. Ill keep the 2.0 as a spare but ill keep the 1.8t for daily.


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Did you increase the gap of your spark plugs with the 2.0T coils? I think the main benefit (if any) of the 2.0T coils is that their higher voltage allows for larger spark plug gaps


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Well back from the dyno with some disappointing news for everyone... well I'll let the graph do the talking 

RUN 3: STOCK COILS .028 GAP (same plugs as in car for 5K miles) 
RUN 5: 2.0T COILS .028GAP (same plugs as in car for 5K miles) 
RUN 6: 2.0T COILS .040GAP (NEW PLUGS) 
RUN 7: 2.0T COILS .040GAP TIMING ADVANCED (NEW PLUGS) 
RUN 9: 2.0T COILS .040GAP TIMING STOCK MALONE TUNE 
RUN 10: 2.0T COILS .040GAP TIMING ADVANCED TO MAX LIMIT while getting 6.8 KW from 2 cylinders! 
RUN 11: 2.0T COILS .025GAP TIMING ADVANCED TO MAX LIMIT while getting 6.8 KW from 2 cylinders! 










Aside from my tune being on the rich side which I will talk to mark about fixing up, the 2.0T coils showed a significant LOSS of power on every one, especially with plugs gapped at .040. Not only that I seemed to run richer much earlier with the 2.0t coils then with my stock coils! I was able to advance spark a tad more (about .75* to 1.5*) through unisettings with the 2.0T coils but I never got back to my original numbers with the added spark. Sadly I didn't get to try 2.0T coils with the new plugs at .028 but I doubt it would have lept up 11whp and 15ft lbs of torque. 

This does raise the interesting question though, since the 2.0T seemed to make me run richer when used, could it be possible to tune for them and create more power? I am currently using a 4 bar tune with a 4 bar fuel pressure regulator. 

I have all the vagcom logs from all the runs and all these runs were done and changes were performed while the car was still on the dyno, the reason for missing runs is one showed negative numbers and the others I hit the log button on accident and caught no data with them. 

EDIT: Forgot to mention I run an AWD engine with AWD bolt downs!


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Based on the actual information so far, I'm starting to believe that any "gains" perceived before were from the actual replacement of older ignition coils rather than the upgrade to 2.0T units. Cryser's situation should've been the best case scenario, as the AWD bolt-down ignition coils have a lower voltage _in theory_, but his findings show no gains when using the "higher voltage" 2.0T ignition coils even with increased sparkplug gaps. 

The 2.0T ignition coils are still a potential choice as replacement coils, but without any solid gains and long term testing for reliability, I'll stick to my Hitachi "E" revision units. They also fit properly on the 1.8T valve cover


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## bizad (Mar 22, 2009)

The boltdown coilpack was used to achieve LEV status. 
The pushdowns got the 1.8T to ULEV. 
I acknowledge coils may have not been the only to get those results but they played a part. 

Is anyone else with these coils seeing different AF? 
I don't believe the dynos posted above are indicative. Were IATs logged and kept as even as possible? 
You were able to advance but ran rich... why is it running rich does not seem to make sense to me..


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

consider me a drift in the sea after jumping off the boat.. 

i have no issues in the last week, after finding i wasn't eating coils..i have a broken fuel rail bolt..well had. 

gaps are fine, fuel rail bolt replaced. runs awesome again. 

i don't see any evidence of these beeing worth the money to me currently, as for others, well. that would be their choice, perhaps i will purchase themin the future as back ups as well.:beer:


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## RobSonic (Sep 26, 2008)

So people are losing power using the 2.0T FSI coils then? Why are people raving about them then, looks like a waste of money? 

OR ... is heat build up doing back-to-back dyno runs a factor in losing power?


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

you also have to remember that normally your first dyno pull will be your best ie you will have no heatsoak and your car is fresh. the more attempts on nearly the same setup will show a fade making you think that u are loosing performance. 

when i dynod my car a year ago i didn three pulls and the dyno chart showed the same results. first pull was good and then the hp and tq went down the following two pulls to changing intake and engine temps. 


in order to get an accurate dyno you would need to pull with stock. let the car and all its components cool back to the baseline and pull again. then you will have semi accurate numbers.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

bootymac said:


> Did you increase the gap of your spark plugs with the 2.0T coils? I think the main benefit (if any) of the 2.0T coils is that their higher voltage allows for larger spark plug gaps


 If it is a stronger coil then it shouldn't make a big difference at the same gap. Slight increase at best. With a larger gap then yes it should make a larger difference. With that said I am not sold on the 2.0t coilpacks. 

anyone want a set of 2.0t coils with a set of hold downs I made?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

thats how I dyno'd ... car sits 15 minutes between runs with 2 highflow fans blowing on the radiator and another one on the engine bay. 

With that said every time I dyno at this place my results are identical usually between runs. 

Heatsoak only a real issue when you dont provide adequate time and your intercooler isnt up to par. 

Also when I did the 3rd run and swapped back the 1.8t coils the power magically reappeared. Well not magically but its back.


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

Bootymac, I've been saying this and no one as much as acknowledges it. I believe everyone WANTS it to be a magic mod and dont want to believe the lack of gains over a 1.8t COP is possible. Like i said, i'm fairly confident many more people have bad COP's than they realize. Many of these people seem to be running stock turbos and i NEVER had the issue with partially damaged COP's on a stock turbo (which i ran at 23+ psi with every bolt on pretty much maxed out till i blew apart the turbo) since the conditions in the motor are no where near extreme enough to cause a clear symptom. I bet almost everyone with a 1.8t has degraded to some extent COP's running even the revision-r's. I also have not seen any testing in this thread that has monitored and isolated enough variables to really be scientific and ensure nothing else is going on. 

That being said, i'm still not going the route of throwing them out or switching back to a 1.8t COP of any kind, these MK VI COP's do seem to be a much more rugged design which is what i'm looking for. I'm most interested in how long i can run these before they start to die. 

I WOULD love someone to prove me wrong, though, as I love anything that i can get a few extra WHP for the same price or cheaper than a stock part that fails anyway.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Bottom line is that this thread has vigorously explored a question and arrived at an answer. Few such threads on the forum have been so thorough and conclusive. 

There's no escaping the finding: 2.0T coilpacks are no benefit to the 1.8T engine.


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

I agree and am impressed to be honest. I've been around for a long time and all be stopped participating in posting due to how far the quality and direction of these threads degraded and simply reverted to "search whoring" for all my needs. Threads like these, i enjoy and promote the quality input in an investigatory and exploratory fashion, always good stuff! 

As for a performance upgrade, i very much doubt they will be discovered to be one (please, prove me wrong, i love any way to get more power as much as the next guy!). 

As far as a COP that lasts longer and maintains a higher level of performance longer, i'm still hopeful, but only time will tell. If they do prove to be more rugged and longer lasting, then, to me, this is still an AWESOME upgrade for the same price or cheaper than the "appropriate" stock part.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

slappy_dunbar said:


> There's no escaping the finding: 2.0T coilpacks are no benefit to the 1.8T engine.


 I am sorry but I need to intervene here for a minute. As you recall from the start of this thread I posted that I found no difference in the actual construction of the 1.8T vs 2.0T coil. 

The whole point of the 2.0T Coil has always been to run a larger plug gap , something that could not be done with the 1.8T Coil. It has never been about power increase.


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

Issam Abed said:


> I am sorry but I need to intervene here for a minute. As you recall from the start of this thread I posted that I found no difference in the actual construction of the 1.8T vs 2.0T coil.
> 
> The whole point of the 2.0T Coil has always been to run a larger plug gap , something that could not be done with the 1.8T Coil. It has never been about power increase.


 exactly, the point of trying out switching over for me was cheaper and maybe a more reliable CP 
smoother idle 
wider gap 
:beer:


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## RobSonic (Sep 26, 2008)

But there's no point running them if you're going to LOSE power.


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

RobSonic said:


> But there's no point running them if you're going to LOSE power.


 i can sacrifice some power 

if it means less or no misfiring 
smoother idle 
more reliable CP and maybe better MPG 

those are enough reasons for me 
plus... everyone is still testing whats best for them 

even if these are par (reliability and performance wise) with stockers and are cheaper and smooths idle... hey why not?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

coolant temp intake air temp 

run 1 86 39 
run 2 88 39 
run 3 87 40 

Those figures are taken at redline at the very end of the pull... Temps were not a factor. 

I'd like to thank Doug for helping out with the Dyno. Now another vortexer afew pages back said he tried opening up the gap on the 2.0t coils and it ran fine. He then put in the 1.8t with the opened up gaps and there wasnt an issue. It ran the same. 

It's funny how I was the first to start attributing numbers to the difference between coils and also came up with proof between them. Not only that, Another dubber dyno'd and came up with the same results and people continue to believe in the coils.


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## joker5k1 (Aug 13, 2008)

I was suspecting heat build up attributing to the lower power numbers as many others have pointed out. I'd like to believe that these coils are an upgrade but it doesn't seem that way on our 1.8s. However, does anyone know what the output voltage on the fsi ecu is? Perhaps this isn't an apples to apples comparison. I have to believe that the coils produce hotter spark somehow, otherwise I can't see how they could run in such lean conditions consistently. That's just my opinion though. I have thoroughly enjoyed all the information in this thread so far, even if it wasn't the answer I was hoping for 

:beer:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

They can run leaner conditions because of the direct injection our fuel pressure is 3-4bar which is 45-60+ psi. Fsi and tfsi are running in excess of 500-1000psi. The atomization and spray you get can and will never be matched so we have to run richer conditions. That's why our fuel pump upgrade is 150 for a walbro and the 2.0 guys have to shell out over 1000 for there's. 

As far as the voltage from the 2.0 ecu is concerned is negligible. The coil basically has a power and ground (I'm oversimplifying) to it. The ecu simply triggers the coil to fire at x degrees before top dead center.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

slappy_dunbar said:


> Bottom line is that this thread has vigorously explored a question and arrived at an answer. Few such threads on the forum have been so thorough and conclusive.
> 
> There's no escaping the finding: 2.0T coilpacks are no benefit to the 1.8T engine.


 I'm sorry but I'm not convinced yet. No offense to Cryser but I put way more faith in Spartiati's dyno runs. I've not been impressed at all with Malones tuning ability from what I have seen, and a 4bar FPR is totally unnecessary. I think there are to many variables regarding the tune & tweeking to really draw a conclusion. 

Now I ask did Spartiati do a few pulls or just one of each? To me a 6whp difference (even if its a loss) is irrelevant. Look at his curves, they are nearly identical. Every hump and bounce are nearly the same throughout his pulls. 6WHP is nothing when it comes to dyno comparison runs, all attributed to luck of the draw, load variance upon engaging full throttle, difference in rpm where full throttle was engaged, difference in boost spike, yadyada. Did you actually tinker with plug gap or just tossed them in and called it a day? And as stated before its not that these coils will make more/less power but the ability to run a larger gap. Its been accepted for years that .028 was the proper gap to run (weather the 1.8t community was right about this or not remains to be seen) and we have people running nearly a .050 gap with no missfiring.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

all runs were started around 16-1700rpms and the load was equal plus or minus alittle. I know that some variance is acceptable but that 6hp lose was seen on 2 runs. When I went back to the 1.8t coil it returned. Doesn't make sense considering it was 2 runs later which should have resulted in more power loss. 

I didnt change the gap however I don't believe there is much to be had between a .028 and a .035 gap. I guess the conclusion is run whichever Coil you prefer. There is nothing statistically significant in running one versus the other...


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

The only difference I can see between my runs conditions wise is the first run was about 4 degrees F cooler then the rest, other then that everything else is a negilatable amount. We had cars on the same dyno that did multiple runs that end up with numbers almost exactly the same. 

with the 2.0T coils you can advance timing more, so if Doug and spartiat would have another run at the dyno I do believe that with the same gap and a timing advance of 1.5 with the 2.0T coils in through unisettings the power numbers between the 2 coils would be a negligible differance at best. 

If anything i think the whole myth of running .040 gap can be throw out the window, and swapping to 2.0T coils for a power increase just don't seem to be supported by either of our dynos. 

If you are going to swap to the coils I would suggest logging 020 make a run with your current coils then swap to the 2.0T log 020 and make timing adjustments through unisettings from there.


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## TurboJOSH (Mar 30, 2009)

spartiati said:


> He then put in the 1.8t with the opened up gaps and there wasnt an issue. It ran the same.
> 
> It's funny how I was the first to start attributing numbers to the difference between coils and also came up with proof between them. Not only that, Another dubber dyno'd and came up with the same results and people continue to believe in the coils.


 I could never run a 0.045 gap before , now I can. When you posted your information I went back and got the revised 1.8T coils from the dealer and starting missing again.Thank you for the info you posted but if you want to attributee dyno loss towards your decision that's ok but these worked for me and have worked for others.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

TurboJOSH said:


> I could never run a 0.045 gap before , now I can. When you posted your information I went back and got the revised 1.8T coils from the dealer and starting missing again.Thank you for the info you posted but if you want to attributee dyno loss towards your decision that's ok but these worked for me and have worked for others.


 Have you or anyone else actually looked at your spark plugs after running this .045 gap? When I pulled mine out before regapping them they were ashy white... and it's not the ignition timing cause I ran my other plugs to the same 020 valves and the agreed upon no more then 6 and they didn't show any white signs at all. 

Hell even if you throw out all my other runs expect the last 2 the amount of time it takes to pop of coils and regap them was the difference in time between the 2 runs, the larger gap still shows a loss in power yet a gain in torque between the gaps, which can be contributed to the small increase of boost spike because of increased EGTs. 

Just because your not misfiring doesn't mean your running the best gap for max power or even a gap that is safe for your engine. 

Either way, I have seen the proof with my own eyes in front of me this proof supported by another member that has a bit more "cred" then I do. Believe what ya want, but actually statical data supports the 2.0T coils need a tad more timing to compare to the awd bolt downs and raising your gap to .040 decreases power output.


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## TurboJOSH (Mar 30, 2009)

Cryser said:


> Have you or anyone else actually looked at your spark plugs after running this .045 gap? When I pulled mine out before regapping them they were ashy white... and it's not the ignition timing cause I ran my other plugs to the same 020 valves and the agreed upon no more then 6 and they didn't show any white signs at all.
> 
> Hell even if you throw out all my other runs expect the last 2 the amount of time it takes to pop of coils and regap them was the difference in time between the 2 runs, the larger gap still shows a loss in power yet a gain in torque between the gaps, which can be contributed to the small increase of boost spike because of increased EGTs.
> 
> ...


 I just removed my plugs and they were not ashy white. To this date no one knows what is the best ga to run.... 
The way my car runs is my own proof. I am not selling anything so you running either coil is your choice .


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## diagnosticator (Aug 27, 2005)

05GTIMarine said:


> we havent gotten any answers on output yet from the companies that make them. i am as well as others are working on testing them. they have been in my car for 3 days now. ill keep letting you guys know whats going on with my progress.' pete at ie will be putting a set on his dyno mule and run logs to see if they help. and my buddie will be doing his install this week when we get our plates. so that will be 4 sets as far as i know that will be in vehicles, 3 of wich are on the road. id like to see more at least try it. i drove around for about 5 hours last night beating the piss outta my car givin kids rides that wanted to see my car and no issues. only time will tell.


 One easy measurement that is worthwhile, is measuring the primary current on the CP power supply circuit using a DC amp-clamp and a DMM, comparing the 1.8T/2.0l TFSI CPs power supply load current demand from the CPs. This won't reveal any information directly regarding the secondary spark energy, but higher primary currents would be evidence that the secondary is developing higher spark energy, compared to a CP running a lower primary current under the same running conditions. The best method is to use a hand held O scope (like a Fluke Scope Meter) connected to sense the secondary voltage and current, vs time scale of the spark discharge event, for the clearest picture for the CP secondary coil winding circuit operating parameters for comparison. 

From general principle, wider spark gaps require higher available spark energy capability from the CP, or misfires due to excessive spark gap for the maximum available spark energy/voltage will occur. Since the 2.0l TFSI coil packs must be capable of reliable ignition despite the much more demanding conditions that exist in the TFSI ignition process compared to the manifold fuel injection 1.8T. The several posts reporting that the 2.0l TFSI CPs run with a lot wider plug gaps (.040"+) in the 1.8T without misfires, with no known maximum boost pressure limit so far, (related to cylinder pressure at the spark point, and required spark energy/voltage,) is consistent with the technical facts and associated requirements involved, supports the belief that the 2.0l TFSI CPs are capable of, and will deliver a lot more secondary spark energy, compared to the 1.8T CP versions. 

From the pics of the two CPs, it looks to me that the length of the actual coil windings in the 2.0l TFSI CPs are longer than the windings used in the 1.8T CP versions, maybe 1.5" to 2" longer. 

IHTHs...


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I have maestro and can go in and increase the timing more at a specific rpm. The timing correction between both coils back to back is the same so therefor no power can be had by increasing the timing. 

Im sorry that your 1.8t coils didnt work out and 2.0 runs better. I did not say run this vs that. I simply did a test of 1 vs the other, put numbers to what others Butt dyno was feeling and that was all... everyone knows every 1.8t runs slightly different from the next. having two 1.8ts yield similar results though ... thats gotta mean something ...


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## diagnosticator (Aug 27, 2005)

gdoggmoney said:


> They are absolutely hotter, that is not even a question at all. The question is how much and how far can they be pushed. .041-.042 gap in my 20-25psi stock turbo car and no blowout, misfires nothing. Just a much smoother quicker car. You stab the throttle an it just goes.
> 
> *.041-.042 on a k03 @ 20-25psi is different than a 5857 @ 20-25psi. Your cylinder pressures are much higher with a turbo that flows more volume.
> *


 This is only true if the engine is runnng at a higher RPM at the same boost pressure with the larger turbo.


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

From my experience the fist dyno pull is always best... so maybe we should of started with the 2.0Ts coils first. 

I went from running hitachi Es with gapped iridium plugs at .25, any thing larger would miss.... 

At my last dyno at forcefed the car started to miss.... not sure if doug or steve remember that 
after a couple of days i closed my gap from .27 to .25 and the misses went away. 

Now i am running the 2.0T coils and the factory iridium gap of .30. 

I dont see how running a coil pack with a stronger spark is going to cause a loss of power. 

to date my car feels better. pulls a lot better through the RPM range.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Well here is what I'm going to do, 

first I'm switching back to my 3 bar tune and 3 bar FPR, after running the numbers through the spreadsheet from the vagcom site which I modified for 4bar the numbers they esitamte my AFR to be are almost identical to what the dyno read my AFR to be(I'm talking like .05 off). So i ran the numbers through the original spreadsheet set up for 3 bar and used one of my older 3 bar datalogs with the boltdown coils and the numbers came up in the mid 12's so obviously its a much better tune. 

I'm keeping my 2.0T coils because even my butt dyno is saying they produce more power off boost the car is a lot easier to drive in the city and has a lot more pep. 

I'll let the ecu adapt to everything then I'm gonna rent a dyno and do an ABA comparison 2.0T coils,AWD bolt downs,2.0T coils Not going to mess with the spark plug gap as I really don't believe much power is to be found there. After the ABA comparison depending on results I'll see if any timing corrections need to be made through unisettings and go from there depending how much time i have. 

I'll post up the results when I get the time to do this unless doug and spartiati can before 

Doing this to see my real numbers without a tune that dives into the 10's but since i'll have the dyno for an hour I can swap out the coils and post results, unfornately you have to rent the dyno for an hour around here if your gonna hook up a computer to the car =(


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## diagnosticator (Aug 27, 2005)

05GTIMarine said:


> we knew that there wouldnt be any improvement in power we are looking at sustainability. being able to have a reliable coilpack source that can last a road trip across country, or beating the piss out of the engine at drags/races on a daily basis.
> 
> brightgolf was having issues with brand new coilpacks and a .032 gap not being able to create a complete burn and would spit fuel out the ass end of his car and a hesitation between 3500 and 4000 rpm. now he is $ .040 and mk6 2.0t coilpacks and these problems have gone away, plus his idle is super smooth as well.
> 
> ...


 Wider plug gaps are always better, more fuel mixture is ignited earlier and the flame front is better established. The resulting pressure increase is smoother, with less spike in combustion pressure graph. Real noticeable results are hard to dismiss. Pulling less timing is evidence the better ignition properties provide for a more consistent and faster burn overall, with lower peak pressure, so yes, the car runs better with less timing correction retard, since less ign timing advance is required to begin with, for similar combustion effects. Running on a modified timing map with more plug gap, from the improved igntion quality that wide plug gaps provide, is consistant causeeffect.


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## diagnosticator (Aug 27, 2005)

spartiati said:


> hate to break it to everyone but back to back dynos proved no difference in power in any point of the powerband. I'll post everything up tonight. Too much running around to get done to post up the data.


 IMO, peak power was never the point with this mod. Running quality and driveability refinements are with this is all about.


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## diagnosticator (Aug 27, 2005)

checkdalevel said:


> On the ride home from work today...
> 
> *i noticed 50F lower on my egt guage. *
> 
> ...


 Yep, that is one of the several positive results of the improved ignition quality from the wider plug gap.


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## diagnosticator (Aug 27, 2005)

slappy_dunbar said:


> Well, here it is...


 I think the ECU needs to adapt to the different properties of the two coilpacks, so a back to back dyno result may not show the best results in comparison.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I never proposed thy were about peak power. All I did was test them. Whatever conclusion people want to take from this is upto them.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

as a side note I've reset all unisetting changes I have done and will not change timing until after the coil pack comparison is done and I can actually see if more timing is creating more power or not on the dyno. I'll be calling the dyno place tomorrow and setting up an appointment to rent the dyno


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## diagnosticator (Aug 27, 2005)

Cryser said:


> Well back from the dyno with some disappointing news for everyone... well I'll let the graph do the talking
> 
> RUN 3: STOCK COILS .028 GAP (same plugs as in car for 5K miles)
> RUN 5: 2.0T COILS .028GAP (same plugs as in car for 5K miles)
> ...


 IMO, I think the disapointing results are because the ECU has not had a chance to adapt to the 2.0 coil packs having different operating properties. If the car was driven on the street for a week, then dynoed, I bet the results would be different.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

diagnosticator said:


> IMO, I think the disapointing results are because the ECU has not had a chance to adapt to the 2.0 coil packs having different operating properties. If the car was driven on the street for a week, then dynoed, I bet the results would be different.


 woot diagnosticator in the house. thanks for making a vortex profile. i wanted to make an audizine one but figured it wasnt worth it.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

well we will see by end of next week, I'm keeping the 2.0t coils in my car and will test them first then swap to awd then back to 2.0t. 

I plan to monitor IAT and engine coolant temp between runs make sure they are within a few degree of each other, before the pulls then we can see. 

I switched back to 3 bar FPR and 3 bar tune so my tune being rich as hell won't be part of the equation.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

diagnosticator said:


> Yep, that is one of the several positive results of the improved ignition quality from the wider plug gap.


 In regards to exhaust gas temps on the dyno the difference was negligible. Forgot to mention that in the findings.


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## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

At higher boost you can definitely tell the difference between coils with 40 hours runtime on them vs new. Even swapping plugs out for new makes a difference. There are a lot of variables, even capacitance/resistance changes with temperature. As someone mentioned, putting 3 channels of a scope on a load clamp, another on the coil trigger wire, with another on the crank trigger would give a pretty good picture of the difference. If I had a scope I would give it a shot myself. 

I've had to bring my gap way down (like .20) to keep from getting misfires at 30-40psi boost on fresh 1.8t rev-r coils and fresh plugs. Anyone have an idea how the 2.0T coils would compare to the 034 high output beasts?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

diagnosticator said:


> Yep, that is one of the several positive results of the improved ignition quality from the wider plug gap.


 Re: EGTs -- 

How so? Because the flame event has burned more completely before the exhaust valves open? But shouldn't that result in more heat?


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## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

slappy_dunbar said:


> Re: EGTs --
> 
> How so? Because the flame event has burned more completely before the exhaust valves open? But shouldn't that result in more heat?


 More heat inside the chamber will be absorbed by the block/head as opposed to entering the exhaust port while still burning.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Interesting. 

Let the cards fall where they may. Let's figure out what is going on. To be frank, i'd trade 5-10whp for my throttle response, I also never was able to get the gap I had on new hitachi coils, or new pushdown coils. I have had 4 1.8T cars now, and have probably spend 400+ on coils throughout my VW ownership experience before these. 

Maybe they started making them all better and fixed something without changing the part number? Silent fault acknowledgement? I am not crazy, these things new or not perform better than new coils I have purchased in the past. 


I do suggest dropping the ECU and letting the car adapt again. Discharge anything potentially by touching the hot and ground battery terminals together once disconnected from the battery. I wish I knew how these ECU's adapted, but I think it is not as simple as older things where a battery drop is a total wipe, they probably have some sort of long term adaptation. 

Cryser you are also running a narrowband car if you have an AWD. That will factor in as well, you have a lot less leeway. 

Can someone with maestro post up their dwell table for a 1.8T? And perhaps we can find one for a 2.0T?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Yup AWD soit's narrowband till this monday when I swap out for a wideband ecu, harness and sensor =P 

Got back on the dyno, made sure the car was exact the same between runs... even had the dyno guy calling anal about it. 

results? 

Coils don't change horsepower what so ever 

first 2 runs 2.0T after being in the car for over 200 miles 
next 2 AWD bolt downs 

All this on a better looking 3bar tune again from Malone... still not happy with the numbers so I pulled the trigger on a Maestro set up, I'm done testing the coils out and will most likely just keep the 2.0T coils in the car, like you said gdogg I too can FEEL the throttle response difference so new coil design, cheaper, same power across the board at WOT, if they add more power its during part throttle, out of boost situation and unless someone that owns a dyno wants to find a way to test that out all we can go by is the butt dyno for that one. Butt dyno says, I have the 2.0T and the AWD adapters coming... why not. 










Heres to breaking 200whp with a PnP exhaust manifold and PnP k03s w/ Maestro :banghead:


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## bizad (Mar 22, 2009)

What rpms are between 42mph - 55mph? 

The coils look like they make a consistent difference in that range when comparing your previous results. 

And, peak figures... :facepalm:


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

:thumbup: 

Dyno looks much more consistant between the coils. I think its safe to say you don't LOSE or GAIN any HP just by _swapping coils_. Now like Gdogg suggested we should look into dwelling maps to see if there is a difference between dwell times and possibly yield some more positive results. 

I wasn't trying to discredit you earlier but to me you had to many variables going on and the tune looked like it may have previously been a factor. 

Thanks to Spartiati and Cryser for taking the time to put some data behind these. :thumbup::beer: 

I just threw the coils in my motor and will be trying them out next week. I previously didn't have the spark plugs in the valve cover and they seated down further. I personally wouldn't run them without adapters, they seem to pop up quite easily if they lose their grip on the plug.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Dear big 1.8T Vendor tuner awesome guys. Someone with a unitune suite, and or a maestro suite please post up dwell times from STOCK ecu's so you don't let out your secret sauce. 


We all will love you for a long time.


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## diagnosticator (Aug 27, 2005)

slappy_dunbar said:


> Re: EGTs --
> 
> How so? Because the flame event has burned more completely before the exhaust valves open? But shouldn't that result in more heat?


 Yes, that is correct. More heat where? With all else equal, the amount of combustion heat absorbed by the engine structure/coolant will not be increased with a stronger and smoother flame front, with the shorter combustion duration that results from the wider plug gap, The heat rejection won't be equivalent, but if anything, the improved combustion conditions will result in less, heat lost to the coolant, not more. If the combustion process is smoother and ends sooner, then there will be less time for heat absorption by the engine structure. While worth being aware of, and interesting to consider, these details are splitting hairs for sure.


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Thanks to Spartiati and Cryser for taking the time to put some data behind these. :thumbup::beer:


 x2 nice contributions guys :thumbup: Thanks!


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## RobSonic (Sep 26, 2008)

What plug gaps did you use on these latest runs?


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

gdoggmoney said:


> Dear big 1.8T Vendor tuner awesome guys. Someone with a unitune suite, and or a maestro suite please post up dwell times from STOCK ecu's so you don't let out your secret sauce.
> 
> 
> We all will love you for a long time.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

uni suite is to unitronics as maestro is to eurodyne. With that said it never made it out.. 

I'll post coil dwell from maestro when I get home from work.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Uni dealers have uni tune.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Nope, we don't.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

anyway


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Vegeta Gti said:


> anyway


 :laugh::thumbup: 

Indeed. 


I never thought that opening up the plug gap would make much of a difference. Look at it this way- at best it's probably worth *a* horsepower or two... But then you've got a complicated turbo engine on the dyno, with varying IAT's, coolant temps, etc- wayyyyy more variables then you can hope to control on a chassis dyno. 

Then you're using a stock ecu which is essentially closed loop ignition timing, with adaptation etc- it's just a total crap shoot to measure just a few hp if any. 

If you aren't careful with intercooler fans and cool down between runs, it won't even repeat within 5-10 bhp- no way you're going to measure a difference of just a few. 

Even my engine dyno, controlling the hell out of everything- it still varies 0-2 hp between pulls, at ~600bhp. 

I never had any thought that this mod would be for power- for me it was just being able to run a bigger gap- .020" and stuff is nasty and fouls the plugs sooooo easily. Being able to open the plugs back up is awesome. 

Plus, there is *hope*- and nothing more then that - that the new coils will be tougher / more reliable. 

That's my 2 bucks anyways... (Damn inflation!)


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## ModsTTand (Jul 8, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Then you're using a stock ecu which is essentially closed loop ignition timing, with adaptation etc- it's just a total crap shoot to measure just a few hp if any.
> 
> That's my 2 bucks anyways... (Damn inflation!)


 :laugh:


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> :laugh::thumbup:
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup::thumbup:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Max coil dwell is 3.5 

the other two maps relating to dwell are posted. 




















these maps are unaltered. I'm unfamiliar with their effect on the motor so I figured just leaving them alone would be best. That is unless someone wants to clarify what increasing or decreasing dwell at certain rpms and or loads can accomplish


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

spartiati said:


> Max coil dwell is 3.5
> 
> the other two maps relating to dwell are posted.
> 
> ...


 
Now we need a 2.0T dwell map.................. Coming up soon hopefully. 


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ur-2.0T-dwell-tables!&p=71965238#post71965238 



Dwell time is limited by RPM and the coils maximum saturation point. however the more you can get away with the hotter the spark typically. More rise time, better spark. A 2.0T table comparison would be nice to see. 

That being siad, I have heard on the internet (lol yes I am saying this) VW cut the dwell times to keep coils alive on our cars.... 

It can be math'd out what the maximum permissible dwell time is, and then compare to stock. Then we can start changing that and melting coils. :laugh: 

Take note how the dwell time decreases as RPM increases, because you have less time between required spark events.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

gdoggmoney said:


> Now we need a 2.0T dwell map.................. Coming up soon hopefully.
> 
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ur-2.0T-dwell-tables!&p=71965238#post71965238
> ...


 havent met or seen many on fsi's playing with maestro. Hopefully they come up with a map.


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## bigivn (Mar 6, 2011)

How can I tell if my COP is R-Rev. ? Thanks


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## Powdered Toast Man (Feb 16, 2010)

bigivn said:


> How can I tell if my COP is R-Rev. ? Thanks


the last four digits of the part number is 115-r


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## RDE38 (Aug 16, 2001)

Can I get some verification that people with chipped cars and running these coilpacks are able to switch back to the hotter BKR7E plugs. I keep reading people opening up the gap on their BKR6E's but not so many on the hotter plug. My coilpacks get here on Friday and would like to pick up some new plugs at the same time.

edit...found my answer back in the thread. BKR7E's it is :thumbup:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

No dwell tables for the 2.0T FSI motor in Maestro.......... NEXT!

Someone here with an ECU definition file for winols/tunerpro and a stock 2.0T bin?



For ref:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ur-2.0T-dwell-tables!&p=71988478#post71988478


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## RDE38 (Aug 16, 2001)

erevlydeux said:


> The 6's are the hotter plug, and the 7s are the colder one. NGK goes up in number as the plug gets colder. :thumbup:


You're right, my fault.


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## RDE38 (Aug 16, 2001)

Just installed my set of mkVI coil packs with new BRK7E's gapped to .037, heard people's plugs were turning white at .04. This is on a ko3s with apr software with v-tune. Well, like everyone else has said, the car runs super smooth. No hesitation all the way up through the rpm's at 21psi. I'm not running any adapters yet, they seem to seal pretty well on the AWP. I reset the ecu by touching the battery cables together and will allow for adaptation. Also, if you plan on keeping your vacuum reservoir on top of the valve cover you will need 3 spacers/washers to allow the bracket to fit over the new coil pack. Seems like most people have theirs removed. So far they seem great and I'm still trying to decide whether or not I'll run adapters.


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

.:Ryan99:. said:


> Just installed my set of mkVI coil packs with new BRK7E's gapped to .037, heard people's plugs were turning white at .04. This is on a ko3s with apr software with v-tune. Well, like everyone else has said, the car runs super smooth. No hesitation all the way up through the rpm's at 21psi. I'm not running any adapters yet, they seem to seal pretty well on the AWP. I reset the ecu by touching the battery cables together and will allow for adaptation. Also, if you plan on keeping your vacuum reservoir on top of the valve cover you will need 3 spacers/washers to allow the bracket to fit over the new coil pack. Seems like most people have theirs removed. So far they seem great and I'm still trying to decide whether or not I'll run adapters.


Good to know! :thumbup:


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

now would there be a way to raise the dwell and gap but still use say the hitachi e style bolt down packs


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Sure... If you want to burn them up


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Sure... If you want to burn them up


What is wrong with the Hitachi E's. Or should I say what is different b/w the Hitachi E's and the push down coils?


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

The 1.8t coilpacks can barely handle the stock dwell. Let alone increased dwell


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

glad i didn't buy these....the issues i had wasn't coils at all..so i still have two A series coils runnign strong


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*hm*



erevlydeux said:


> Luckily I found someone to buy them from me... coulda sent a PM when you decided you didn't want them anymore. :thumbdown:


:thumbup:


----------



## Niagara_V_Dub (Sep 25, 2007)

tracking on my radar!


----------



## dixongli (Sep 24, 2007)

No new info?


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

gdoggmoney said:


> No dwell tables for the 2.0T FSI motor in Maestro.......... NEXT!
> 
> Someone here with an ECU definition file for winols/tunerpro and a stock 2.0T bin?
> 
> ...


Copied it in here for ya'll to see

Good luck with this experiment, getting some real spec's on the coils would help me help you. I do have a mk5, so maybe i can swap coils and play with my BT 1.8t some afternoon and let you know. Dont count on it anytime soon though.


----------



## Weehe (Apr 2, 2010)

Just wanted to throw this out there

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-C6_A6--V6_3.0T/Search/Coil_Pack/ES281014/

I brought this topic up to my mechanic and his respons was, "didn't hear about the 2.0t coils, but I am going to use the 3.0t ones" he said they do have an increas in voltage. Now I have no data to back this up, but just figured I would put it out there.


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Weehe said:


> Just wanted to throw this out there
> 
> http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-C6_A6--V6_3.0T/Search/Coil_Pack/ES281014/
> 
> I brought this topic up to my mechanic and his respons was, "didn't hear about the 2.0t coils, but I am going to use the 3.0t ones" he said they do have an increas in voltage. Now I have no data to back this up, but just figured I would put it out there.


Interesting...I wish VW would hand out the tech info on this stuff. I don't see the big deal about keeping everything a secret.


----------



## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Weehe said:


> Just wanted to throw this out there
> 
> http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-C6_A6--V6_3.0T/Search/Coil_Pack/ES281014/
> 
> I brought this topic up to my mechanic and his respons was, "didn't hear about the 2.0t coils, but I am going to use the 3.0t ones" he said they do have an increas in voltage. Now I have no data to back this up, but just figured I would put it out there.


Those are the red coils that has been brought up already. They're the same as the Mk5 coils found on the 2.0T and 2.5


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Hm*



bootymac said:


> Those are the red coils that has been brought up already. They're the same as the Mk5 coils found on the 2.0T and 2.5


This guy is correct. :thumbup:


----------



## dixongli (Sep 24, 2007)

Any new dynos?


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

We need some non-maestro 1.8T dwell tables.


Maestro fudges things, ti could be the actual table or not, it could be a tapp calculation and table that gets mapped into different tables on the ECU itself..........



Saga continues.


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## ~Enigma~ (Jul 8, 2009)

Ok guys... I got a set of the mk5 black coils yesterday... here is my input on these:

I have been having issues since i put on my fmic with stock tune... i have been getting hiccups when in boost and minor backfiring every now and then... so I looked for boost leaks and checked for cel and looked at my plugs... all was good. My plugs are not too old, new-ish fuel filter... everything was good. I had powerloss with my FMIC and uneasy idle (not bad but noticable)... Ive been thinking maybe the enser air is playing with thr A/F ratios... the sensors are checking flow, not temp... I know this sounds crazy for a stock car with FMIC to have such a draw back over air temp... but i thought hey....

SOOOOOOO... minutes after switching to the 2.0t coils.... idle is smooth and U can hear the difference, and feel it when you sit.
under acceleration.... NO HICCUPS!!!! not one backfire and i punched it a bit yesterday to check it out...
ANNNNNDDDDDD... it seems that i got some acceleration back it doesnt feel as laggy at all...

This is all with the gap still at .032. IDK what anyone says or has dyno proof that these make you lose power... because I can FEEL and deff tell how they have helped me and gave me back power...


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Kinda sounds like you had a bad coilpack to begin with...

and now their new, hence no more "hiccups". 

My new coilpacks from the VW dealer (recall) made my car peppier and run smoother


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

i had tested brand new hitachi bolt downs
vs new mkvi coilpacks

definitely feels better with the mkvi coils
i even switched back and forth between different coils and u can definitely feel the vi coils were more responsive if that makes sense. Even idle was better than the bolt downs.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

I've been running mine for a week now as well. Overall they run good, bkr7es gapped at .035 running 21 psi. I did notice a smoother idle but I can't fully say its the coils as I reinstalled a new head and all the turbo/manifold hardware.


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*hm*

Has anyone considered running BKR8E plugs? 2 ranges colder than stock. :thumbup:

I might order a set and give them a go and see how they burn.. I know a few honda guys run those plugs with good success.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Been running 8's for almost a year with no problems


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

tried it..they failed....25psi on my worked AEB,3651,3071r,sem,80mm and they broke up @.030...back to my R's and it was fine..same plugs..put my gap back to .024 and on the Rcoils awesome..2.0t coils(friends) and nothing..no change..a little less on the bottom it seemed..

these coils aren't any different from 1.8t coils it seems...their just NEW...so they react differently with new coils and new plugs..just like a fresh set of R's and plugs will...
so for BT. their a waste.


my apologies ever..i have been busy as hell, we had our local show and i have been working mad hours.


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Hm*



Vegeta Gti said:


> tried it..they failed....25psi on my worked AEB,3651,3071r,sem,80mm and they broke up @.030...back to my R's and it was fine..same plugs..put my gap back to .024 and on the Rcoils awesome..2.0t coils(friends) and nothing..no change..a little less on the bottom it seemed..
> 
> these coils aren't any different from 1.8t coils it seems...their just NEW...so they react differently with new coils and new plugs..just like a fresh set of R's and plugs will...
> so for BT. their a waste.
> ...


Thanks for the info, good to know since i'll be BT very soon. :thumbup:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Vegeta Gti said:


> tried it..they failed....25psi on my worked AEB,3651,3071r,sem,80mm and they broke up @.030...back to my R's and it was fine..same plugs..put my gap back to .024 and on the Rcoils awesome..2.0t coils(friends) and nothing..no change..a little less on the bottom it seemed..
> 
> these coils aren't any different from 1.8t coils it seems...their just NEW...so they react differently with new coils and new plugs..just like a fresh set of R's and plugs will...
> so for BT. their a waste.
> ...


We will see shortly. I have my ECU coming and it will be a 3076R on a small part at mid 20 psi. They are still going good with a 3076R @ a lowly 10psi on a stock tune, stock injectors, no maf and the car runs so rich it will make your eyes tear up. -15-18% fuel trims. 

No misfires, and I bet with my fuel trims my plugs are black and carbon coated.


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

I am running BT on uni file :beer:

Running hard for about 2wks straight and it definitely feels nicer than the R's. Both coilpack sets were brand new to begin with and running fresh bkr7e at 0.032 for now...opening them up some more soon.

happy with these over the R's


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

Subscribed and interested if FI on the V6 will benefit from the findings done on here.
Steve


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i'm uni as well.

our temps sit around 90* all year round on the outskirts of the city, but with a million people on an island 21milesX33miles..it;s traffic rip traffic rip rip trafic traffic

pretty good test to the ability of the coils for me. i'll stick with my R's as i have yet to see any problems that won't come up with these as well. sure i coil may die, but not as often as they used to with previous revisions.

once again, sorry E:beer:


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

Sucks that you had a ****ty experience seeing as everyone on audizine loves them. with the exception of someone who has the turbo 3 inches away from the coils and their casings cracked... Everyone has been able to run larger gap, better lower end acceleration, and better fuel economy. You must be doing something wrong


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

def not doing things wrong if i make mor epower on my setup than most with bigger ones. 

if they work, i'll run em..but i so far haven't seen 100% evidence they are superior..only personal opinions...and i trust my logs and tach and such.


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## Sinner44 (Oct 11, 2006)

I dont have any numbers to back this or any hard data... and this is just my experience...but here is what I observed about these coils

Setup:
91 Octane
FT ko4 setup
380cc injectors
GIAC K04-2X file
Audi TT225 MAF
3 Bar FPR
Dual Nozzle Water/m (100cc Pre-TB nozzle, 225 Post-TB nozzle) Injection roughly around 2500Rpm
42dd Race 3" DP
2.5 Milltek Catless exhaust

New Coil Pack Harness installed prior to testing, wrapped in High-Temp Heat tape to discourage cracking in the future... 82 degrees in ambient temp 20% humidity..

tests included hard pulls from 1st-4th to redline (in 02m 6speed)

Brand New 1.8T Coil Packs
Brand New BKR7E spark plugs...
The largest gap I could set on these without any misfire was .028.. First test and installation was gapped at .028...Car idled fairly smooth and acceleration from 0 was significant.... Gap was lowered by .001 increments until .025 with 30 minutes of cool down in between runs, noticed performance decrease with each subsequent gap decrease...when gaps were raised above .028 significant increase in misfiring in high RPM range... When gapped right the coils ran great...

Brand New 2.0t Coils
Brand New BKR7E plugs (not the ones used in earlier test)
The largest gap I was able to run w/o misfire was .042"...as gap increased misfires began becoming more apparent; however, not as much so as the 1.8t coils... The lowest gap that we tested at was .037...(same test conditions as above)... Slight missing occurred at .037, not too noticeable... The car seemed to idle smoother with the 2.0t coils and preformed to redline fantastically...

Conclusion/Findings:


I'm able to run a much larger gap on the 2.0t coils...they seem to make the car idle smoother and even when not gapped at an exactly optimal number they still preformed nearly flawless to redline...

The 1.8t coils when gapped even slightly incorrect preformed terribly and missed all over the rpm band, but most apparent in higher rpms...However, when gapped to the correct size... the margin for error is much smaller and performance between 1.8t vs 2.0t is almost unnoticeable....

I falsely believe that the 2.0t provide a stronger climb through the gears or stronger pulls, but I have no data to support this, besides my own experiences and possibly biases 

when gapped correctly the 1.8t coils performed pretty much just as well... I am probably just biased to the 2.0t coils...but I'd buy them again...


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## MKIII_96 (Nov 25, 2006)

isnt there a way to use external coils and spark plug wires on these without going SEM? to me that would be the 100% fix to all the coil problems these engines have. if you think about it these coil packs are actually pretty small so theyre probably weaker than something like the msd coils the vr6 people put on their cars. and theyre sitting inside a valve cover getting hot as hell then cooling off then getting hot again which again isnt good for them. it cant be that hard to do


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

OMG! Don't suggest the wire thing! I did that and was flamed until the post was black holed... 

(But, yes there is a way... I don't know it, but there is)


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> OMG! Don't suggest the wire thing! I did that and was flamed until the post was black holed...
> 
> (But, yes there is a way... I don't know it, but there is)


 034 sells the ls coil adaptors.. 16v plug wires work.. Adjust the dwell in Maestro..


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## herb2k (Jul 29, 2007)

Just a note for those of you using BKR7EIX-11 plugs: Double check & adjust your gap to 0.040", my set came pre-gapped at 0.044" (1.1mm) which was way too big even for the 2.0T coil packs. A slight knocking sound was audible at idle and the plugs came out showing signs of too much gap (white ash). 

The mk6 ignition coils definitely seem to run much smoother without any misfires or fouling compared to my "E" bolt-downs with plugs gapped to 0.028" on APR93.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Spark plug wires bring their own issues. Ideal solution a coilpack that can handle what we throw at it. 

My 2.0T coils are great on the 3076R at low psi. This week the boost should be turned up.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

gdoggmoney said:


> Spark plug wires bring their own issues. Ideal solution a coilpack that can handle what we throw at it.
> 
> My 2.0T coils are great on the 3076R at low psi. This week the boost should be turned up.


 heck yeah . gdogg did you see on the audizine what happens when you dont run the spacer kits. this dude cracked his coilpacks up the side. its insane.


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

threw a set of mk6 coils on a bt car and not a dam change !! no nada nothing!!! 

car ran the same wether it had bolt downs,new push downs,mk6 downs ,U down,down syndrome 

ALL DE SAME!!


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

kamahao112 said:


> threw a set of mk6 coils on a bt car and not a dam change !! no nada nothing!!!
> 
> car ran the same wether it had bolt downs,new push downs,mk6 downs ,U down,down syndrome
> 
> ALL DE SAME!!


 LIKE


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

When someone burns through one of the MK5 coils, or want's to sacrifice one. Would you be willing to do an autopsy on a MK5 coil vs a revision "R" or other normal coil? Just to see the difference in internals? 

(sorry, if someone already has and I didn't notice)


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## Mark300zx (Jun 24, 2009)

So has anyone found any disadvantages to running these coil packs?


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*HM*

I gained 30hp switching to MK5 coils. :thumbup:


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

BSD said:


> I gained 30hp switching to MK5 coils. :thumbup:


 Dyno sheets or it didn't happen.


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## RDE38 (Aug 16, 2001)

Mark300zx said:


> So has anyone found any disadvantages to running these coil packs?


I don't see any disadvantages yet. I don't even run the adapters. I snapped them in place and they've held tight.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

kamahao112 said:


> threw a set of mk6 coils on a bt car and not a dam change !! no nada nothing!!!
> 
> car ran the same wether it had bolt downs,new push downs,mk6 downs ,U down,down syndrome
> 
> ALL DE SAME!!


LOL!!! You big dummy, you didn't regap the plugs to gain more efficiency did you 




BSD said:


> I gained 30hp switching to MK5 coils. :thumbup:


Damn is that it?! LOL!! How did you come to this conclusion? I think most of the gains are shown in efficiency not peak hp.


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Well, after nearly 12 years one of my Hitachi coils finally died on me. Might be time to try out the Mk6 coils!


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*hm*

I was just kidding, but my car does idle smoother and seem to pull off about 2mpg more. My coils were fine previously to changing them out. :thumbup:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Still want to see the stock 2.0T dwell vs stock 1.8t dwell. 

If anyone knows the memory regions in the HS/LP ECU Image I can pull them up.

I'm still trying to translate a WinOLS dump in CSV to a tunerpro xdf.

I don't think the eurodyne maestro values are an actual table, but I can't be sure. Something I heard.


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

velocity196 said:


> LOL!!! You big dummy, you didn't regap the plugs to gain more efficiency did you



lol new plugs and gapped at .30 .. still no difference now a uni ecu vs a maestro .. now there is the difference  speaking of witch ....fawk maestro !!! and you know what i mean al :laugh:


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## denimboy (Jul 7, 2009)

Last night I put in a new set of MKVI coils and gapped the plugs at .038 (BKR6E). Stock software.

At first at noticed the same improvement as everyone. However this morning I was driving it and still had hiccups at idle. Not as much as before (in fact much steadier and better response) but still some fluctuations from 700 to 950 now and then and one or two bigger hesitations at idle. 

I'll have the car chipped with Unitronic Stage 2 on Friday with BKR7E gapped at .040. We'll see if it gets better. 

ps. I don't have any vac leaks AFAIK and the plugs have around 20000km of use but still clean. I'm using the coils on an AWP head without adapters. They sit well but not as secure as the MKIV coils did so I'll be getting the adapters shortly for precaution. Also haven't replace the harness yet.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

LOL Chad why are you guys having so much trouble with eurodyne stuff? Actually I can't wait to go back to my uni 1000cc tune to see if I get what your talking bout. 

On a side note, has anyone added 1 to 1.5% fuel on increasing load? Just thinking out load here but that might not only help the really hot plug issues on these bigger gaps but it sounds like a lil extra fuel might actually get used here.


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

al its just trying to get it to play nice with the hemi tb at any thing less than 30 % throttle ...oh well guess its full throttle everywhere :laugh:


----------



## Boosted96GSX (May 29, 2007)

kamahao112 said:


> al its just trying to get it to play nice with the hemi tb at any thing less than 30 % throttle ...oh well guess its full throttle everywhere :laugh:


:thumbup:


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

Just because you have Maestro doesn't mean its any easier to tune for huge injectors... That's why most people have issues. That and the base maps aren't that great.

gdoggmoney, why are you trying to find out the dwell time? I can find it for you if you wish.


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

The object is to have a spark for longer and which is stronger. The dwell times of coilpacks can assist with the info..i think.
Steve


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

DJ Gonzo said:


> Just because you have Maestro doesn't mean its any easier to tune for huge injectors... That's why most people have issues. That and the base maps aren't that great.
> 
> gdoggmoney, why are you trying to find out the dwell time? I can find it for you if you wish.


http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php/topic,625.msg5720.html#msg5720


----------



## denimboy (Jul 7, 2009)

Anyone else's having hiccups at idle on stock tune? My idle is generally steadier but it falls to 600 - 700 rpm every now and then.


----------



## MKIII_96 (Nov 25, 2006)

looks like someone got their feelings hurt ^^


----------



## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

MKIII_96 said:


> looks like someone got their feelings hurt ^^


Oh yeah most def


----------



## n7plus1 (Nov 6, 2006)

yes, i know cross posting...any help from you guys? 

im thinking i got the wrong coils...although those are the ones everyone were saying to get...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/440533-1.8T-CP-s-to-2.0T-CP-s-Misfiring-issues

"Now that ive finally gathered all of the stuff to do the upgrade, its all done and im a bit disappointed.

So with:

INA Adapters
06H 905 115 Coilpacks
NGK BKR7E-11

im getting misfires when i left off the gas. idle goes nuts every once in a while. like a 15 minute drive home, itll happen like 5-6 times. and its only really noticeable when i pick up speed and put the car into neutral and drift, the idle goes whack right then and my vacuum will read/bounce around between -3 - -10inHg instead of around -20 like it should. Sometimes, if i rev the car high when it does this, it straightens itself out and then runs fine OR if i put it back into gear its fine.

SO...fast forward to yesterday:

Before i left work, i regapped the BKR7E-11 from the factory gap of .044 to .040 thinking that was the problem. Each plug was white/ashy...so that makes sense.

Car ran great ALMOST all the way home and then like 2/3 minutes away from getting home it did it again. And then proceeded to do it a handful of times again on the way to work in the morning.

So, does the gap need to be take down even more?
I just recently did my valve cover gasket with all of this at the same time and had the valve cover powdercoated. One thing i havent done yet is scrape all the PC off the ground area for the CP harness..although i figured the bolt that connects the grounding ring terminal would be fine b/c of the bolt meeting the threads inside.

ANY thoughts? Appreciate the help guys."


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Try a reasonable gap.. .34 maybe


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

n7plus1 said:


> yes, i know cross posting...any help from you guys?
> 
> im thinking i got the wrong coils...although those are the ones everyone were saying to get...
> 
> ...


It may not be sufficient ground I had to clean my post off as well after I painted my cover. Is your harness in good shape? I have had them for a couple months and still no hesitations/stutters.I did bring my gap Down to .037 and have had 0 issues.


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## MKIII_96 (Nov 25, 2006)

usually a plug full of ash is from burning dirt or shjtty gas.


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

n7plus1 said:


> yes, i know cross posting...any help from you guys?
> 
> im thinking i got the wrong coils...although those are the ones everyone were saying to get...
> 
> ...


Your spark plug gap is really big. Scrape the PC off of the ground point on the valve cover. Test it out. If still getting misfires then bring the spark plug gap down to at least .035


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Your spark plug gap is really big. Scrape the PC off of the ground point on the valve cover. Test it out. If still getting misfires then bring the spark plug gap down to at least .035


when i redo my harness, i am going to have 4 ground points as apposed to the 1 that us transverse have. each coil will have dedicated ground


----------



## n7plus1 (Nov 6, 2006)

got the powder coat off the stud and actually added a line from that to the negative terminal on the battery as a "just in case" move. Still getting misfires. 

.040 was the number everyone was talking about on AZ...so you guys still think i should bring it down more?


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Sure you don't have hidden vacuum or exhaust leaks? 


I fixed some vacuum leaks on my jetta and it is almost 100% 

I know I have a small exhaust leak somewhere, after boosting I can smell it in cabin and I have a rerouted wg to the downpipe. I never torqued my v-band again after heating up and I am going to seafoam it.

I get maybe a light miss every 25-30 seconds at idle. vacuum and exhaust leaks are major culprits of misfires too.


----------



## denimboy (Jul 7, 2009)

n7plus1 said:


> got the powder coat off the stud and actually added a line from that to the negative terminal on the battery as a "just in case" move. Still getting misfires.
> 
> .040 was the number everyone was talking about on AZ...so you guys still think i should bring it down more?


I'm in the same boat..

Are you getting misfires big enough to throw codes or just some fluctuations/hesitations?


----------



## n7plus1 (Nov 6, 2006)

gdoggmoney said:


> Sure you don't have hidden vacuum or exhaust leaks?
> 
> 
> I fixed some vacuum leaks on my jetta and it is almost 100%
> ...


if i did why would it only come out when swapping coils and plugs?


----------



## n7plus1 (Nov 6, 2006)

denimboy said:


> I'm in the same boat..
> 
> Are you getting misfires big enough to throw codes or just some fluctuations/hesitations?


ill have to scan for codes. def fluctuations and hesitations. 

i noticed if i keep my vacuum past -20 or around -20 it wont do it. if i let off the throttle and vacuum reads below -20 it starts to misfire. 

also, holds boost fine...runs as [email protected] WOT.

mean anything to anyone?


----------



## denimboy (Jul 7, 2009)

n7plus1 said:


> ill have to scan for codes. def fluctuations and hesitations.
> 
> i noticed if i keep my vacuum past -20 or around -20 it wont do it. if i let off the throttle and vacuum reads below -20 it starts to misfire.
> 
> ...


I've had the new coils for 3 days now with this issue. Scanned twice and there's no codes. Tonight I'll replace all plugs and gap them at .035 (now at .038). Will let you know if the smaller gap helps.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

if i did why would it only come out when swapping coils and plugs? 




Good call. However, if you are pushing the limits and your idle AFR's are off or borderline and you stretch the gap i'd imagine you would get problems. When stuff is spot on it is easier to ignite. 


Seafoam it for good measure and check for leaks with a boost tester. 

Maybe you have a defective coil? Move them around see if the mis follows a coil to another cylinder?


----------



## n7plus1 (Nov 6, 2006)

denimboy said:


> I've had the new coils for 3 days now with this issue. Scanned twice and there's no codes. Tonight I'll replace all plugs and gap them at .035 (now at .038). Will let you know if the smaller gap helps.


hmmm ok. 

i think maybe peoples opinions will change when they see that they run fine under boost...i think thats why they were asking me to take the gap down a bit more.


----------



## n7plus1 (Nov 6, 2006)

gdoggmoney said:


> Good call. However, if you are pushing the limits and your idle AFR's are off or borderline and you stretch the gap i'd imagine you would get problems. When stuff is spot on it is easier to ignite.
> 
> 
> Seafoam it for good measure and check for leaks with a boost tester.
> ...


on the list for things to check:thumbup:


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

n7plus1 said:


> on the list for things to check:thumbup:




I'm there, I am putting off seafoaming my new 3076R setup as I don't want to find out I have a warped v-band or something and that I need to do some real work to fix it. Bleh.


I have to pressure test and seafoam it tonight.


----------



## DanA4 (Feb 28, 2011)

Nate, your car hates you and your stupid MkVI coils. 

My car hated them so much that it destroyed 10 of them in 3 weeks. 

This is Dan, in case you can't figure it out.


----------



## n7plus1 (Nov 6, 2006)

hahaha, my car loves me and i :heart: it.

yeah, thats crazy what happened with yours...im glad mines not THAT big of an issue....yet.


----------



## DanA4 (Feb 28, 2011)

lol, lets hope :laugh:


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Who has a MK5 coil thats happy, and whats the part number of that one?


----------



## denimboy (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm running the MKVI 06H 905 115 too btw


----------



## n7plus1 (Nov 6, 2006)

Gulfstream said:


> Who has a MK5 coil thats happy, and whats the part number of that one?


hahaha


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

MKV coils still going fine here.


----------



## n7plus1 (Nov 6, 2006)

Gulfstream said:


> Who has a MK5 coil thats happy, and whats the part number of that one?


wonder if its just the mkvi's?


----------



## ~Enigma~ (Jul 8, 2009)

Gulfstream said:


> Who has a MK5 coil thats happy, and whats the part number of that one?


im running the original ones... not endin in an E or F... came off a 2.5 (same as the 2.0... just an extra coil)... no problems yet, but I havent increased my gap yet either... i was thinking a .38 or .36.

as of now I am lovin them and they love me.


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

So that I can update my Coil Pack info thread....

What is the correct part number for the best mk6 coil packs?

Can someone provide me a link to the INA bolt down packs?

Are spark plug recommendations still the same (OEM for stock or BKR7e for chipped or higher)

Chipped people ran .028 gaps on the old plugs. Now people's gaps vary wildly. Is there an accepted gap to use yet, or are people still experimenting (for performance applications).

For non-chipped people, is this mk6 coil pack update relevant to them? Will they see improved performance or no?


----------



## n7plus1 (Nov 6, 2006)

unplugged MAF and drove it home after work, no go

more ideas!


----------



## n7plus1 (Nov 6, 2006)

just scanned my car after having the MAF unplugged:


VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.1
Friday, 22 July 2011, 17:31:11.
Control Module Part Number: 8E0 909 518 AF
Component and/or Version: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0003
Software Coding: 0016701
Work Shop Code: WSC 78897
VCID: 749B5FD357B5
4 Faults Found:
16825 - EVAP Emission Control Sys: Incorrect Flow
P0441 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
18010 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
P1602 - 002 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
16486 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
P0102 - 002 - Please Register/Activate
17536 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 (Mult): System too Lean
P1128 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded


----------



## n7plus1 (Nov 6, 2006)

think i found my problem. vacuum cap plug was falling apart. on a hose from the block to the intake mani....gonna clear my codes and take her for a drive in a bit, will report back. thanks for the help!


----------



## denimboy (Jul 7, 2009)

erevlydeux said:


> IE adapters are far superior. Link: http://www.intengineering.com/Integrated-Engineering-p9602226-1-2.html
> 
> Spark plug recommendations are the same, and I believe some people are even running BKR8Es w/ the TSI/FSI coilpacks @ the higher gap.
> 
> ...


+1 for the IE adapters. 

I'm going to buy new plugs (BKR7E) and was wondering if I should stay with Copper or go IX or some fancy series?


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

denimboy said:


> +1 for the IE adapters.
> 
> I'm going to buy new plugs (BKR7E) and was wondering if I should stay with Copper or go IX or some fancy series?


Copper.

They're so cheap I replace them every oil change (or every other oil change if I'm feeling lazy)


----------



## n7plus1 (Nov 6, 2006)

whats the dif of INA and IE? look the same.


----------



## denimboy (Jul 7, 2009)

n7plus1 said:


> whats the dif of INA and IE? look the same.


Because they actually have some available and ready to ship. 
And they look better.
:thumbup:


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

groggory said:


> Copper.
> 
> They're so cheap I replace them every oil change (or every other oil change if I'm feeling lazy)


I change mine every other oil change, and inspect them randomly if I feel like it.


----------



## denimboy (Jul 7, 2009)

Someone mentioned he did reset the ECU by touching the battery cables together. Can anyone elaborate on how to do this properly?

I need to do this to reset the new chipped ECU and finally put in the new plugs and see how it goes.


----------



## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Touching the positive and negative cables together simply drains all of the electrical systems. The same can be done by stepping on your brakes with the battery disconnected


----------



## Boosted96GSX (May 29, 2007)

groggory said:


> Copper.
> 
> They're so cheap I replace them every oil change (or every other oil change if I'm feeling lazy)




Are you guys changing them for preventative purposes or because if you go much longer than that you have negative effects(misfires)?

I changed my plugs a couple oil changes ago and now when in a higher gear @ WOT it seems like its misfiring and loosing power. Dialed the boost down to under 20 and all is good, but above that, it misses. I am assuming my plugs are ready to be swapped out. I am gapped at .028 fyi


----------



## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Copper plugs should be changed every 15,000 to 20,000 miles, which usually coincides with every other oil change. I try to inspect the gap every oil change


----------



## Boosted96GSX (May 29, 2007)

wow, so you go 7,500 - 10,000 miles per oil change? I've been changing the oil about every 3,000 miles, sometimes 4,000. I run Mobil1 10w-30 with a K&N Gold Filter.


----------



## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Boosted96GSX said:


> wow, so you go 7,500 - 10,000 miles per oil change? I've been changing the oil about every 3,000 miles, sometimes 4,000. I run Mobil1 10w-30 with a K&N Gold Filter.


Oil change intervals are another discussion altogether, but you can safely go up to 10,000 miles on synthetic oil (depending on driving style and other conditions of course). While frequent changes won't do any harm, changing synthetic oil at 3,000 miles is hugely unnecessary in most cases.

If you want to learn more, check out the Bobistheoilguy forums.


----------



## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

I have changed my plugs like 4 times in the past 10k miles to find the right ones I wanted, I change my oil every 3000 miles and I only use either mobil 0w40 or 5w40... 10w30 is way bad to put in a car that needs all the lube it can get up in the top end.


----------



## Boosted96GSX (May 29, 2007)

Bob has great articles, I have read them before, although I should probably read them again to refresh my memory. :beer:


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

I seriously can't believe you guys are running copper plugs. Total crap! I used them in the past until I tried the ix iridium plugs. Now I'll never go back to anything cheaper. My last set I've had for over a yr. Just kept regapping them as needed. The coppers I found would start pitting like they were slowly breaking apart or melting. Last thing I want shooting out my head is a spark plug part


----------



## herb2k (Jul 29, 2007)

I really don't like the way my 1.8T runs with any V-Power plug (lumpy idle, plugs always inconsistently burning). I think it has to do with the V-shaped tip potentially causing multiple spark points.

Running IX's now (Gapped to 0.038") and everything's smooth!


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Brightgolf said:


> I have changed my plugs like 4 times in the past 10k miles to find the right ones I wanted, I change my oil every 3000 miles and I only use either mobil 0w40 or 5w40... 10w30 is way bad to put in a car that needs all the lube it can get up in the top end.


:screwy: i run 10w30 163k on the clock motor is still solid as day 1, burns no oil, does not smoke :thumbup:



bootymac said:


> Oil change intervals are another discussion altogether, but you can safely go up to 10,000 miles on synthetic oil (depending on driving style and other conditions of course). While frequent changes won't do any harm, changing synthetic oil at 3,000 miles is hugely unnecessary in most cases.
> 
> If you want to learn more, check out the Bobistheoilguy forums.


mobil 1 10w 30 full synthetic w/ changes every 5k :thumbup:


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

i've tried the IX (iridiums) and compared to the copper 7E's..... the copper was the best 

Both worked well but the iridiums needed to be regapped and quite often. It's cheap to throw in new copper plugs at every oil change. 

If you're gonna regap, might as well throw in new set each time.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

dknl said:


> i've tried the IX (iridiums) and compared to the copper 7E's..... the copper was the best
> 
> Both worked well but the iridiums needed to be regapped and quite often. It's cheap to throw in new copper plugs at every oil change.
> 
> If you're gonna regap, might as well throw in new set each time.


thats what i was thinking man lol. 

bkr7e: 2.89 each 11.96 for 4
bkr7eix: 8.48 each 33.92 for 4

if you change your plugs every few oil changes you would be fine on the copper plugs. shoot for 12 bucks id change em every other oil change and be happy. you can buy 3 sets of copper for the price of one set of iridiums. im not a spark plug guy i change mine about once per year.


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

05GTIMarine said:


> thats what i was thinking man lol.
> 
> bkr7e: 2.89 each 11.96 for 4
> bkr7eix: 8.48 each 33.92 for 4
> ...


You can get the BKR7E's for less than $10 a set from ECStuning. I order several boxes at a time.


----------



## Boosted96GSX (May 29, 2007)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> You can get the BKR7E's for less than $10 a set from ECStuning. I order several boxes at a time.


Same here. About 8 bucks for 4. Cant beat that...


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

I'm trying some Denso IK22 plugs gapped at .028 ... See how those work out for me.

I think the NGK 4644 v-power plugs I've been running haven't been working out super for me. They always look a bit grey smokey when I pull them after a couple oil changes. Maybe its the v-power groove? Maybe it's the .028 gap. Maybe my car's funky. I'm not sure.


----------



## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> You can get the BKR7E's for less than $10 a set from ECStuning. I order several boxes at a time.


well then that sums it up. at 8 bucks a set you might as well change em every oil change. so then you should never have plug issues.


----------



## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Actually, the cost difference is minimal between copper and iridium plugs because iridium plugs tend to last significantly longer.

Iridium plugs: $48 CAD to change every 60,000 miles
Copper plugs: $12 CAD to change 15,000 miles = $48 every 60,000 miles

I'm going with iridium plugs next time since I trust Al's judgment :beer:

Edit: Turns out Canadian Tire has NGK iridium plugs on sale for $24/4 plugs. Definitely picking up a set if they have the correct heat range


----------



## Boosted96GSX (May 29, 2007)

I just wanted to make sure it was my plugs that were the issue and not maybe one of my coils starting to fail.


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

bootymac said:


> Actually, the cost difference is minimal between copper and iridium plugs because iridium plugs tend to last significantly longer.
> 
> Iridium plugs: $48 CAD to change every 60,000 miles
> Copper plugs: $12 CAD to change 15,000 miles = $48 every 60,000 miles
> ...


That a good buy! I have a set on stand by that I picked up on sale as well. Here the thing, my car might not be exactly what your cars are so yeah ok I see what you mean bout copper plugs. In my car copper couldn't take the heat. I run water meth and still couldn't take the heat. Even the coldest level 8! That's killer if it works for you guys I guess! Not so much here, 30psi on anything bigger than a 35R equaled no bueno LOL!! ix level 7's last forever! Hell I broke a tip off and ran it for a week with zero issues LOL!! Just fixed the gap to .025 and drove the $hit outta her HAHA!! anyway I'm looking forward to trying the fsi coils on a .038 or better gap and yes they will be ix 7's 

Has anyone with hot plugs added more fuel yet? Curious if that helped the white plug issue :beer:


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> You can get the BKR7E's for less than $10 a set from ECStuning. I order several boxes at a time.


i buy my plugs from advance auto parts for 8.48 a set out the door :thumbup:


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

groggory said:


> I'm trying some Denso IK22 plugs gapped at .028 ... See how those work out for me.
> 
> I think the NGK 4644 v-power plugs I've been running haven't been working out super for me. They always look a bit grey smokey when I pull them after a couple oil changes. Maybe its the v-power groove? Maybe it's the .028 gap. Maybe my car's funky. I'm not sure.


beware of IK22 Denso's

I would get them out asap.

utter crap and 3 out of 4 of mine shed their ceramics into my motor ruining it and the turbo

Denso suk

NKG are what I run.. and they just work..


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

badger5 said:


> beware of IK22 Denso's
> 
> I would get them out asap.
> 
> ...


Oooooo....

I bought them on the suggestion of [email protected]

I used to use BKR7E @ .028

Now I use 7644's @ .028 ... I don't know how much I like this v-power stuff

... the idea of my spark plugs blowing up freaks me the f out. never heard of that problem.

I may be returning these and sticking with my 4644's. Maybe I'll just squeeze the gap down a bit. Or maybe I'll convert to the 2.0T coilpacks like so many other people.

........................

PS...Are there any 2.0t coil pack brackets that are the same shape as the old square bolt down coil packs? I know it sounds vain, but I left the powder coating bare under the coil packs. So if I move to the IE style round 2.0t adapters it would kinda ruin the nice look I have going with my valve cover.


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

yup INA makes a coil pack for us square holer's just ask for the v1.3

as for the V powers I've never had a problem with them but I do change my plugs every 6K miles on the dot. when I was dyno'd the 2.0T running a .040 gap like suggest gave me ashy white plugs since then I've just kept them at .028 no misfires but still the added "feel" of more low end power... Since swapping to wideband and maestro I have smoothed out my stage 2 map provided by tapp and I have to say my car is an utter joy to drive, all the partial throttle hesitations and surging problem I've sorted out with minor tweaks to the boost PID and duty cycle maps and the car is an joy to drive :heart:


----------



## Zealot (Mar 9, 2003)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> You can get the BKR7E's for less than $10 a set from ECStuning. I order several boxes at a time.


Yet Integrated Engineering sells them for $5 a piece. WTF?

http://www.intengineering.com/NGK-BKR7E-Copper-Spark-p3748149.html


----------



## Sinner44 (Oct 11, 2006)

wow...i get mine for about 1.50-2.00 a piece at Napa


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

lol then buy them from ECS... ecs might have a better deal with NGK or buys them by the millions vs thousands... or or just go to your local oreilly's and buy them there and not pay shipping. You can find them on google for $5.92 for four why buy from ecs?


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

theswoleguy said:


> lol then buy them from ECS... ecs might have a better deal with NGK or buys them by the millions vs thousands... or or just go to your local oreilly's and buy them there and not pay shipping. You can find them on google for $5.92 for four why buy from ecs?


Because my local advance doesn't carry them anymore. I just order a couple sets every once in awhile when I have an order for other things with ECS.


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## Boosted96GSX (May 29, 2007)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Because my local advance doesn't carry them anymore. I just order a couple sets every once in awhile when I have an order for other things with ECS.


x2 I just had to put in another bug order with them, so I just added them to the list to always have a few sets on hand


----------



## ~Enigma~ (Jul 8, 2009)

Well trying to find a reason for my random limp mode and poor performance, and I stubled upon something that I think may or may not be related to 2.0t coils... in block 03 my ignition timing at idle is between +5.5 and +5.75... usualy right around +5.54 ATDC... my idle is fine, seems like its always been good, but a lil smoother after the 2.0t coils were put on... is this a normal reading? I mean that's a lil high for idle timing isn't it?

Also just incase anyone has any ideas I don't get a cel with my limp mode and I got a leak between turbo and tb check dv (intermittent), and a cat below threshold (intermittenet)... both were soft codes, no vac leaks, o2 sensors seem good (ran fine between 011 and 111, and fueling was at +2.6 on a wot gear pull (can't remember block... but it is suposed to be between -10 and +10, -2.6 being a lil lean... but within its specified perameters). I couldn't check my map sensor or n75 cause I didn't know how, maf is good... flows 2.8gs at idle and 128gs at 2nd gear wot (stock tune). I'm assuming its either a leaking dv, bad n75, or my map sensor reads off with my fmic... but my fmic has been on a few months and this code is new (to the best of my knowledge).
Car was running a lil (very lil) rough before the 2.0t coils... maybe the map sensor?


----------



## denimboy (Jul 7, 2009)

I am now running the MKVI FSI coils with BKR7Es @ 0.40 on a unitronic Stage 2 tune (20psi). 

WOT :
No issues there. Zero misfires yet. No hesitation. Runs great. 

Idle: 
Smoother, better response of the throttle and usually steady @ 750~800 rpms. However I still get this wobble now and then. Idle drops around 650 rpm and jumps back. The engine doesn't sound like misfiring its just as if it lacked air/fuel for an instant. 

There is no codes. No vac leaks. I haven't replace the fuel filter which I will do shortly. 
I wonder if this wobble is normal when running a 3" turbo-back?
If not did anyone fix this issue before? 
I can try a smaller gap.


----------



## Sinner44 (Oct 11, 2006)

Maybe try a TBA? it could be slightly out of alignment?


----------



## denimboy (Jul 7, 2009)

Sinner44 said:


> Maybe try a TBA? it could be slightly out of alignment?


Tried this already. And I reset the ECU after the software was installed few days ago. 

The weather has no effect on the wobbling so I doubt it is the coil pack harness. 

I'll clean the MAF and see how it goes.


----------



## denimboy (Jul 7, 2009)

Cleaning the MAF did nothing to cure the idle. I'm still wondering if anyone else experience this (as in is it normal?)


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Pressure test for leaks, clean TB, clean iat sensor


----------



## BensBlackGTI (Feb 12, 2001)

Has it been deicide, MKV or MKVI coilpacks?

I was going to wait longer for result before I install but CA DMV is telling me I need VW to correct my "problem" before I can register my car:what: So hopefully I can upgrade for free


----------



## denimboy (Jul 7, 2009)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Pressure test for leaks, *clean TB*, clean iat sensor


Thank you sir!
Idle is smooth and steady now


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

denimboy said:


> Thank you sir!
> Idle is smooth and steady now





Good work. That little bit of crud will make your idle suck as you can see.


----------



## D_B_Jetta (Apr 27, 2006)

Installed this upgrade last night.










Car: 2002 Jetta, AWP, 5sp, 350000km(220000mi ish)

Mods; K&N, APR TIP, APR K04, EuroJet Street FMIC, P&P intake mani and head, Kinetic Ext Mani, 2.5 DP, Magnaflow Catback, APR tuning w/Vtune (91oct Program, Shell 91 Gas), R1 DV

Former: NGK BKR7E at 0.028, 06A 905 115 D (Post recall)
Changed to: NGK BKR7E at 0.038", 07K 905 715 F Coilpacks, INA adapter plates.

Immediate impressions (Butt dyno);
Idle has improved noticeably. It used to dip and not be consistent with Idle RPMs. Now it's smooth and even.
Over all the motor seems to run smoother during normal driving. It feels like there is more pull in the lower RPM range. I used to have small shudders, or misfires i guess, at a few points during low boost acceleration. This seems to be gone now and the motor pulls smooth and even though the boost range. I haven't had a chance to really get a feeling for changes at WOT due to the weather, snow tires and wet roads.
It is not a Life changing, OMG this is Awesome change, but during my commute the car seemed smoother and more responsive to throttle inputs.

I will update in a few months (spring) with longer term impressions.

:beer:
G


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Been running mine about 6 months. Only issue I had was I tossed in some spare NGK platinums I had laying around since my old plugs didn't look the best. The plats would miss on a .38 gap; regapped lower and they would still miss, picked up another set of BKRE7's the next day, regapped to .38 and been running great since. :thumbup:


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

My coils are still going strong on brand new turbo hardware. 3076 still at low boost for now and driven in vacuum until I weld my dump tube together later tonight.


Any misfires that come up? I find vacuum leaks I missed or created accidentally and it's back to awesome. That is on a stock cam file, my car has 3651 cat cams. It runs great aside from the vvt delete and small tune issues. 

Car still feels better than it ever did on any other coils. Even post recall.


----------



## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Been running mine about 6 months. Only issue I had was I tossed in some spare NGK platinums I had laying around since my old plugs didn't look the best. The plats would miss on a .38 gap; regapped lower and they would still miss, picked up another set of BKRE7's the next day, regapped to .38 and been running great since. :thumbup:


Platinum plugs take more voltage to fire than Copper plugs. That is why you got the misfire.

*You should never be using Platinum plugs in a Turbo car. Platinum electrodes have less heat capability than Copper or Iridium plugs and can turn into a " Glow Plugs " in a Turbo engine.*

Iridium plugs are what is specified by the Manufacturer. Iridium takes even less voltage to fire than Copper plugs, plus Iridium electrodes have a extremely high heat tolerance making them tolerate high combustion temperatures. They " supposedly " do not turn into Glow Plugs...although I would stay away from the " fine wire " products. Get them with a regular size center electrode. Iridium plugs also last a very long time...but they are expensive.


----------



## Gu4rDi4N (Mar 11, 2005)

Finally...

In 1.8T GT30 its a great upgrade?

TFSI Coil Packs

Thanks


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Gu4rDi4N said:


> Finally...
> 
> In 1.8T GT30 its a great upgrade?
> 
> ...


They were fine when I accidentally spiked 25psi on stock fuel pump and 630cc injectors, I ran a sustained 1bar for a while as well with the setup, perfectly fine on a big gap with these coils and copper BKR7E's.


----------



## mustbenoti (Jan 25, 2002)

Not doubting you, but where did you source this info? Very interesting.

I switched to Iridiums in my B6 about 2yrs ago and am pretty convinced of their superiority however I've never had any real science to back it. But I can speak to the cost factor. Iridiums easily last 2-3x as long as copper and overall will give a slight edge in mileage. I'd say that takes care of the cost v benefit.



Chickenman35 said:


> Platinum plugs take more voltage to fire than Copper plugs. That is why you got the misfire.
> 
> *You should never be using Platinum plugs in a Turbo car. Platinum electrodes have less heat capability than Copper or Iridium plugs and can turn into a " Glow Plugs " in a Turbo engine.*
> 
> Iridium plugs are what is specified by the Manufacturer. Iridium takes even less voltage to fire than Copper plugs, plus Iridium electrodes have a extremely high heat tolerance making them tolerate high combustion temperatures. They " supposedly " do not turn into Glow Plugs...although I would stay away from the " fine wire " products. Get them with a regular size center electrode. Iridium plugs also last a very long time...but they are expensive.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

mustbenoti said:


> Not doubting you, but where did you source this info? Very interesting.
> 
> I switched to Iridiums in my B6 about 2yrs ago and am pretty convinced of their superiority however I've never had any real science to back it. But I can speak to the cost factor. Iridiums easily last 2-3x as long as copper and overall will give a slight edge in mileage. I'd say that takes care of the cost v benefit.


Pretty sure iridium is more resistive than copper. Someone google it up.


----------



## mustbenoti (Jan 25, 2002)

It is.


----------



## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

gdoggmoney said:


> Pretty sure iridium is more resistive than copper. Someone google it up.





mustbenoti said:


> It is.


Sorry guys it's very late (2:40 AM ) and I just got in from work.

I'll post a couple of links, but please spend a bit more time researching Plug data.

Iridium plugs DO require less voltage to fire than Copper or Platinum plugs. That is an engineering fact. You can argue with NGK and Denso , who first developed the Iridium plugs. 

http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/technical/iridium_spark_plugs.htm


Dozens of articles on why Platinum plugs should not be used on Turbocharged, Supercharged or NOS engines. Particularly the " Double Platinum " plugs. Here is just one article addressing the issue. 

http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/technical/nitrous-oxide-spark-plugs.htm

Evo, Suby, UR Quattro forums and other Forced Induction forums, all have horror stories of engines destroyed by running Platinum plugs. Either loss of Platinum chip on " Double Platinums " or detonation caused by Glow Plug effect on high boost motors. Bosch Platinum plugs seem to be the biggest culprit.

Iridium " fine wire " plugs do not seem to to have the problem with Glow Plug effect but it is interesting to note that NGK makes an Iridium Taper center electrode design, which is recommended for modified Turbocharged, Supercharged or NOS engines.


----------



## mustbenoti (Jan 25, 2002)

Thanks for the info, got some readin to do now. :thumbup:


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Chickenman35 said:


> Sorry guys it's very late (2:40 AM ) and I just got in from work.
> 
> I'll post a couple of links, but please spend a bit more time researching Plug data.
> 
> ...




You are correct about platinum plugs, and thanks for the links Time to do some reading.

I stick with BKR7E's because they are like 1.50$ each, run awesome and if they foul bad they are throwaway cheap.

BKR7EIX are like 8-10$ a plug and when they foul, hopefully you can use a spark plug cleaner to blast the carbon tracks off of them to avoid a 40 or 30$ plug change.

That has been my main mindset behind running the BKR7E plugs. Maybe when I finalize my vacuum/boost system with -4 from the wastegate and run -10 to the brake booster with a fitting welded on hopefully not melting the diaphgragm inside I will try them.

As it is, it can be easy to have some hardware issues that cause poor running and foul a set of plugs fast with big injectors.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

gdoggmoney said:


> You are correct about platinum plugs, and thanks for the links Time to do some reading.
> 
> I stick with BKR7E's because they are like 1.50$ each, run awesome and if they foul bad they are throwaway cheap.
> 
> ...


Thanks guys I never heard that about platinum plugs. I've run Iridiums in the past on previous modified cars and I never saw any benefit that justified the cost. Maybe it was due to my one car but I was always regapping those damn things too. :thumbup:


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Yet another plus for copper, it will melt away if things go sideways, versus the harder/hotter metals which can break free and go bouncing around the cylinder.


----------



## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

l88m22vette said:


> Yet another plus for copper, it will melt away if things go sideways, versus the harder/hotter metals which can break free and go bouncing around the cylinder.


Very true. the Platinum chips that break loose usually end up destroying the Turbine wheel. 

Bosch also had a batch ( batch = probably several hundred thousand ) of those 4 prong multi ground electrode plugs, where the side electrode would break loose, due to faulty welds.


----------



## deltaP (Jul 26, 2011)

spartiati said:


> I would atleast do something with overall ignition timing and then block 020. Requested boost wont differ. We care for ignition and timing. I would do 003 011 and 020.020 bring the most important one. If you pull say 6 degrees on stock coils and then only pull only 3 degrees with the 2.0t coils that is a significant gain. Every degree of timing gained can net anything from 8-12hp


 Is this true? Every degree of timing gained can net from 8-12hp???:laugh:


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

That statement needs some revision... 

You're saying since it's cold and I run w/m and I've upped my timing ~7* with no pull I'm gaining 56-84Hp:sly: 

Spartiati you're knowledgeable but this is so where near correct... 

Screw 2.0 coils run LS2 coils with wires.


----------



## Harry Sax (Apr 21, 2011)

not going back thru 23 pages to see. 

but i ran these last week on the dyno and blew one up. NGK 5671A-9 @ .020 >700 awhp and 40 psi. it did not appreciate it very well. 

not sure if anyone else has smoked one or not. put some backup 115 R's in it, and went on my merry way. 

just sayin they arent bulletproof by any means.


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

thank you scrotum, they arent all that different from 1.8t coils. 

as repeated immensely in this and many other threads. proper gap, fueling,timing,etc will make your coils last. 

i still have two A's and two R's i have had for a couple years. if testicles is proving this, then it's pretty solid data. coppers are awesome. regular coils are fine.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Harry Sax said:


> not going back thru 23 pages to see.
> 
> but i ran these last week on the dyno and blew one up. NGK 5671A-9 @ .020 >700 awhp and 40 psi. it did not appreciate it very well.
> 
> ...


 Your trying to get the spark to jump a gap under some disgustingly high cylinder pressures. I think you have stepped outside the realm of factory coil on plug units


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

gdoggmoney said:


> Your trying to get the spark to jump a gap under some disgustingly high cylinder pressures. I think you have stepped outside the realm of factory coil on plug units


 He needs to step it up to the 034 high output coils


----------



## Harry Sax (Apr 21, 2011)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> He needs to step it up to the 034 high output coils


 nah.... there is a 940-ish WHP / 720's tq 1.8T drag car running stock coils still with methanol for fuel. the kicker is he uses a CDI. 

and i happen to have a CDI that i can use if i want to.... 

this thing blew mid run, not at the top.... and had just pushed out 622 awhp @ 32psi just fine the pull prior.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

034 high output coils are just LS coils with wires attached to a plate so the are COP setup Don't waste your $ .... 

I think he already knows what he's doing he does have the fastest 1.8T in NA if I'm not mistaken


----------



## Harry Sax (Apr 21, 2011)

DMVDUB said:


> 034 high output coils are just LS coils with wires attached to a plate so the are COP setup Don't waste your $ ....
> 
> I think he already knows what he's doing he does have the fastest 1.8T *Quattro* in NA if I'm not mistaken


 fixed  :beer: :wave:


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Harry Sax said:


> fixed  :beer: :wave:


 The hairier the sac, the faster you are at the track.


----------



## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

Chickenman35 said:


> Very true. the Platinum chips that break loose usually end up destroying the Turbine wheel.
> 
> Bosch also had a batch ( batch = probably several hundred thousand ) of those 4 prong multi ground electrode plugs, where the side electrode would break loose, due to faulty welds.


 I've been using the NGK PFR7Bs for over 10 years, and they are what comes from APR in the 3 and 3+ kits. I have tried others and always came back to these as they are rock solid. I'm not putting out the numbers Sax is, but at 35-40 psi boost on stock coils (R revisions) they are doing just fine and I've never seem them chip or fall apart.


----------



## mpatterson (Jun 25, 2009)

tried the mk6 gti coil packs, and i am enjoying the result. i have solid metal suspension bearing bushings, and a lightweight flywheel with a unsprung clutch, and stage 2 blackforest mounts. I feel like i feel every vibration the car makes and i noticed a very noticeable difference especially in idle vibrations. i wouldn't be lying if i said it's cut them basically in half.


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

^^^^^Nice!:thumbup::thumbup:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Update. 2 seafoamings, and a marvel mystery oil/carb cleaner cylinder cleaning or two later I killed the BKR7E plugs I put in. The gap increase to at .040 and I was having bad misfires.

I put a new set of of BKR7E plugs in, and still had a couple misfires after pulling the battery, doing a throttle body alignment and etc.

I swapped the same 07K MKVI 2.0T coils from my Audi that had like 1000 miles on them before I pulled the car down (and I think more importantly no big turbo heat!!!) and did the battery pull, TBA and drive around.

Misfires gone. Going to swap the coils I purchased in the first post of this thread back in later this week to see if misfires and off idle hesitation return.

Funny, the car was ok about 3 days ago, I guess the plugs finally had it. They are fairly nasty looking from the solvents and seafoam treatment.


New plugs are gapped at .035" and drove awesome to work today.


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

I installed some 2.0t coil packs with the plugs gapped to .35...
Car idles much smoother then before. I've been running them for a few days now with no misfires. I like others have some beefy motor mounts and these coils seem to have solved some of the cockpit vibrations I was experiencing:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:...


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> I installed some 2.0t coil packs with the plugs gapped to .35...
> Car idles much smoother then before. I've been running them for a few days now with no misfires. I like others have some beefy motor mounts and these coils seem to have solved some of the cockpit vibrations I was experiencing:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:...


Cool. You did the tiguan wire cover like mine.

 I'm flattered


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

:laugh: Yep:thumbup:
The best part is my buddy gave me the harness cover for free one day long before anyone including myself was thinking of retrofitting one...


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Twopnt016v said:


> I installed some 2.0t coil packs with the plugs gapped to .35...
> Car idles much smoother then before. I've been running them for a few days now with no misfires. I like others have some beefy motor mounts and these coils seem to have solved some of the cockpit vibrations I was experiencing:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:...


Vibrations don't lie. Misfire counters do, they are not as sensitive as you'd think. If you think about it, there is a fairly dramatic difference.


I am going to stuff the old coils back in later tonight after I finish the install of my second fuel pump and pressure regulator on the wastegate..


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

So i've noticed now that the car is running better and vibrating more with the spherical/poly mounts, my coilpacks are popping up slightly and a few are popping to the point they are losing contact with the tip of the plug.


Never had this problem before, funny it starts now! Looks like some fab work and bending coilpack hold downs is about to happen.


----------



## vlopsahl (Apr 13, 2004)

Have anyone run the FSI-coils on standalone? What dwell time is it safe to run them at? I only have experience with the old simple VAG coils that required an ignite and measured them to 3 ms dwll.

Thanks
Vegard


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

vlopsahl said:


> Have anyone run the FSI-coils on standalone? What dwell time is it safe to run them at? I only have experience with the old simple VAG coils that required an ignite and measured them to 3 ms dwll.
> 
> Thanks
> Vegard



I will be running them on an EMS-4 soon. In another thread on LSx coils, we may get some good information on these coils actua output and the limits of them.


----------



## toby lawrence (Dec 12, 2011)

3ms is the standard dwell time for ME7 on 1.8Ts IIRC. In the LS2 coil thread, elRey posted up his dwell tables so you could check there. I'm too lazy to get the link. :O


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> 3ms is the standard dwell time for ME7 on 1.8Ts IIRC. In the LS2 coil thread, elRey posted up his dwell tables so you could check there. I'm too lazy to get the link. :O


Standard VW dwell, or chipped tuner dwell?


----------



## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

Does anybody have the part number for the 2.5L motor for the replacement harness? The 4 cylidner is obviously 1J0 971 658 L, but I want theseo n the orignial 5 cylinder. 

Thanks for an awesome thread!


----------



## toby lawrence (Dec 12, 2011)

gdoggmoney said:


> Standard VW dwell, or chipped tuner dwell?


Never seen or heard of any tuner changing dwell tables for 1.8T setups... especially since even high horsepower cars are still chugging along with 1.8T/2.0T coils that don't really need any fussing with.

As far as I understand, elRey's dwell tables are stock... and with that, the 3ms dwell number that I referenced.


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

vlopsahl said:


> Have anyone run the FSI-coils on standalone? What dwell time is it safe to run them at? I only have experience with the old simple VAG coils that required an ignite and measured them to 3 ms dwll.
> 
> Thanks
> Vegard


3000us charge time I am using


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

So I did a bit of trial and error. I've found on my car a UNI canned 630 tune that BKR7EIX work the best, give the best combustion and don't foul out nearly as bad as bkr7e. 

The bkr7e is not actually copper, there is a platinum palladium alloy I believe over the electrode. I keep having issues with glazing and heat damage on the BKR7E and the electrode tip is always cooked, even if the plug is not carbon fouled. No other heat damage..... after a day or two of running I get misfires stumbles and hesitation. Cleaning them helps if done weekly and they last a month or so. 

Well, I swapped in BKR7EIX with these coils, and DRAMATIC seat of the pants difference. The car is louder, the vibrations are much more even and my vacuum/boost gauge is much more stable and you see about 1/10th of the misfires moving the needle as before. 

The NGK iridium plugs are iridium rhodium (iirc) coated on the electrode, which is much better at shedding heat and much better at conductivity than the BKR7E. 

Copper plugs are not copper as I think we discussed earlier. Just wanted to let a bunch of people know this. The car is much more drivable than it has ever been. 


/* Edit */ 

Gaps equal as well, I left the IX plugs at .028 which is stock and what they come at, all 4 were dead on. The v power plain plugs were done at larger gaps and smaller, both with equal results only lasting a hair longer with the smaller gap, not much at all.


----------



## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

I put in 2.0 coils with bkr6e and gapped them to .041" (stock tune). Car runs great, idles great, and overall seems alot more torque and throttle response.


----------



## vr6guy2012 (Apr 17, 2012)

from the guy with the farenheight orange valve cover, im glad this thread is still going almost a year later. keep up the good work gents. 

and whats up gdogg you still have that mk1 synchro??


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

vr6guy2012 said:


> from the guy with the farenheight orange valve cover, im glad this thread is still going almost a year later. keep up the good work gents.
> 
> and whats up gdogg you still have that mk1 synchro??


Yep. Along with other stuff sitting waiting for time.


----------



## VOLKSGLI (Mar 31, 2012)

Hey guys i am new to the vw scene as well as a turbo car. 2005 Gli with unitronic stage 1 chip, turbo inlet pipe, and most recent purchase is intergrated engineering adapter plates for the 2.0t coil swap. What plug is being used with this setup currently running BKR6E with a 0.26 gap should i be running a hotter plug with a 0.40 gap?


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

VOLKSGLI said:


> Hey guys i am new to the vw scene as well as a turbo car. 2005 Gli with unitronic stage 1 chip, turbo inlet pipe, and most recent purchase is intergrated engineering adapter plates for the 2.0t coil swap. What plug is being used with this setup currently running BKR6E with a 0.26 gap should i be running a hotter plug with a 0.40 gap?


Switch to BKR7E plugs (copper, 1 colder), or BKR7EIX (iridium, 1 colder). Gaps vary from person to person. Basically, start at a tight gap..test and look for misfires at all engine speeds and loads. If there are misfires, tighten the gap. If there aren't misfires, open the gap a little and retest. Keep doing this til you're at the max gap without misfires. Tighten it a bit for some headroom. Done.


----------



## VOLKSGLI (Mar 31, 2012)

My coils just got replaced under the recall so Im still on stock coils and Im noticing while Im driving it is almost like it is misfiring and also when Im stopped and just idling the rpm seems to flutuate is this a problem within the coils or the plugs not being a cold plug? Can't wait to go get some new 2.0t coils. What is the recomended year to get in these coils iv'e read that 2.0t Fsi are the ones im going to require. Ryan


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

2.0 fsi coils from a 06 bpy 2.0L engine.


----------



## VOLKSGLI (Mar 31, 2012)

Is this the 2.0t turbo engine that you are referring too? Thanks


----------



## MrAkalin (Jan 4, 2011)

I didn't read through the entire thread so sorry if it's been discussed.. 

How do the 2.0T's fit in a transverse motor with an AGN valve cover?


----------



## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

MrAkalin said:


> I didn't read through the entire thread so sorry if it's been discussed..


 lol....:facepalm: 

all the suppliers for conversion kits make kits specifically for the bolt down coil engines and push down coil engines. 

not that hard to search google


----------



## MKIII_96 (Nov 25, 2006)

MrAkalin said:


> I didn't read through the entire thread so sorry if it's been discussed..
> 
> How do the 2.0T's fit in a transverse motor with an AGN valve cover?


 I think they fit right in but theyre gonna stick up pretty high. Might look funny


----------



## foley803 (Sep 29, 2011)

*Harness Question*

I have a few questions about the harness listed in the first post:

1J0 971 658 L









1.)Has anyone tried to swap one of these into an AMB(or any B6 A4 with VVT)? I've got the new coils already, and they are awesome, but my harness is in very poor condition. I think the previous owner used a sledge to get the plugs off the coils.

2.)I'm fine with cutting open the harness if need be, but I'm uncertain if the wire color combinations on the respective coils are the same on this harness vs. my stock harness.

3.)Also I don't know if it'd be long enough but cutting and splicing is doable if these wires won't reach all the way back to the ECU.(is this part for a transverse or longitudinal 1.8T?)

4.)I am aware of the 034 kit for these cars, but this would be about half the price, and could possibly eliminate the need to splice in extra connections. Also new wires all the way to the computer just give me a warm fuzzy feeling. (A new AMB harness is hella expensive!)

If I can get this going and it's not too much of a pain in the ass, I'll post up a DIY.


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

I was experiencing serious misfires issues so I decided to take this opportunity to upgrade to the 2.0T coils. I went with the red 06E coils and BKR7E-IX iridium plugs with IE adapters for my AWD. 

My existing setup consisted of 12 year old Hitachi coils with BKR7E copper plugs. I sidegapped the plugs which may have caused the misfires to occur. I tested the iridium plugs with the Hitachi coils but was still having intermittent misfires so I swapped in the new coils and all is well so far. I'm currently running a 0.035" gap on the plugs but will experiment with them overtime.

Big thanks to Nik at CTS Turbo :thumbup:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

Nice Bay! Looking Good!:thumbup:


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

bootymac said:


> I was experiencing serious misfires issues so I decided to take this opportunity to upgrade to the 2.0T coils. I went with the red 06E coils and BKR7E-IX iridium plugs with IE adapters for my AWD.
> 
> My existing setup consisted of 12 year old Hitachi coils with BKR7E copper plugs. I sidegapped the plugs which may have caused the misfires to occur. I tested the iridium plugs with the Hitachi coils but was still having intermittent misfires so I swapped in the new coils and all is well so far. I'm currently running a 0.035" gap on the plugs but will experiment with them overtime.
> 
> Big thanks to Nik at CTS Turbo :thumbup:


I did a fair amount of driving today and I was able to see the improvements with the 2.0T coils. Overall the engine feels more responsive and less hesitant during partial acceleration, especially from a stop or from very low speeds. I wouldn't go out of my way to "upgrade" working coils to the 2.0T coils, but they're a great choice if you're already experiencing misfires.

Perhaps I should try opening the gap more?


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

you can not gap an iridium spark plug without damaging the tip. 
Yea people say they do it, but it damages the tip and lowers the life of the plug. they all come 'pre gapped' from the mnfr. 

I use the cheapo platinum plugs gapped at .041" and works fine.


----------



## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Slimjimmn said:


> you can not gap an iridium spark plug without damaging the tip.
> Yea people say they do it, but it damages the tip and lowers the life of the plug. they all come 'pre gapped' from the mnfr.
> 
> I use the cheapo platinum plugs gapped at .041" and works fine.



http://www.densoiridium.com/installationguide.php


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

Slimjimmn said:


> you can not gap an iridium spark plug without damaging the tip.
> Yea people say they do it, but it damages the tip and lowers the life of the plug. they all come 'pre gapped' from the mnfr..


QFT:thumbup:
You should never gap iridium plugs:thumbdown:


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

bootymac said:


> http://www.densoiridium.com/installationguide.php


Like Slimjimn pointed out...people do it but it shortens the life of the plug.


----------



## VR6 MadMan (Feb 14, 2010)

I have a k04-001 set up with a mbc set to 24 psi so I don't go in to soft limp and it worked great. I changed to 2.0 coils with ****ty auto craft spark plugs gaped .030 and drove around a little then did a 2nd gear pull and hit soft limp, 3rd...soft limp, 4th gear...soft limp, 5th gear...soft limp, 6th gear...soft limp. I turned my mbc down more and we are back in the game:thumbup:. I'll let you all draw your own conclusions but my car runs great.


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

VR6 MadMan said:


> I have a k04-001 set up with a mbc set to 24 psi so I don't go in to soft limp and it worked great. I changed to 2.0 coils with ****ty auto craft spark plugs gaped .030 and drove around a little then did a 2nd gear pull and hit soft limp, 3rd...soft limp, 4th gear...soft limp, 5th gear...soft limp, 6th gear...soft limp. I turned my mbc down more and we are back in the game:thumbup:. I'll let you all draw your own conclusions but my car runs great.


How about ditching the sh_tty aut craft and get some BKR7E?


----------



## VR6 MadMan (Feb 14, 2010)

Twopnt016v said:


> How about ditching the sh_tty aut craft and get some BKR7E?


They just arrived in the mail today.


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

VR6 MadMan said:


> They just arrived in the mail today.


:thumbup::beer:


----------



## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

VR6 MadMan said:


> They just arrived in the mail today.


lol... knowingly put in crappy plugs... had problems...put in good plugs.. ok:thumbup:


----------



## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

I read to page 9 and got impatient.

Has anyone tried these on a 3071r or larger yet? My motor is getting built the first week of June and my pagparts billet 3071r will be going on shortly after. Can these handle high hp high boost?


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

Yes people have used them in HHP applications with success. I've heard one person report he "killed" one on the dyno. That being said he has the fasted 1.8t in north america:laugh:...


----------



## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

there isnt anything different then regular 1.8t coils other then they are taller (hence the need for adapters) and they have a stronger field winding to produce a stronger spark.
if 1.8t coils have no problems with high hp then 2.0t coils wont either. 

more spark more hp obtainable.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Mine keep vibrating off now that the car runs right and probably due to the solid poly mounts. Need to build hold downs and all will be well. I get 3-4 good high boost pulls before misfires start at idle due to the coilpacks vibrating off just enough.

Pop them bac down fully, key off, key on and perfect idle.


----------



## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

gdoggmoney said:


> Mine keep vibrating off now that the car runs right and probably due to the solid poly mounts. Need to build hold downs and all will be well. I get 3-4 good high boost pulls before misfires start at idle due to the coilpacks vibrating off just enough.
> 
> Pop them bac down fully, key off, key on and perfect idle.


Interesting, I've had mine installed for almost a year now and they've never vibrated out and I've never had to push any of them back down (I do check them occasionally). I never bought the adapter mounts because it never was an issue for me.


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Camride said:


> Interesting, I've had mine installed for almost a year now and they've never vibrated out and I've never had to push any of them back down (I do check them occasionally). I never bought the adapter mounts because it never was an issue for me.


Mine fit super tight. Takes some spit on the seals to get em in


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> Yes people have used them in HHP applications with success. I've heard one person report he "killed" one on the dyno. That being said he has the fasted 1.8t in north america:laugh:...


I thought it was fastest 1.8t Quattro


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

They don't vibrate out, they pop off just enough to where the plug tip is not fully seated or making contact.

What happens is the car misfires lightly as the vinratins cause the physical contact to break, so you now have to spark jumps. One from coil to plug head, another in the combustion chamber.


----------



## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

Picked up another set of the all metal coils and the adapters for my mk4 now. Enjoying my smooth idle!


----------



## thefrese (Mar 8, 2012)

I'm using the mk6 coils with stock gap NGK7's (.038 or .042, can't remember) and running smoother then ever.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

Just randomly found a set of these, now gotta play with gap


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

18T_BT said:


> Just randomly found a set of these, now gotta play with gap


 :laugh:


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

gdoggmoney said:


> :laugh:


WHAT? they just popped right in by themselves, I mean I watched it happen, it was magi*cal*


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

18T_BT said:


> WHAT? they just popped right in by themselves, I mean I watched it happen, it was magi*cal*


You were visited by the TFSI coil fairy. This is a special event in ones life.


----------



## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

burkechrs1 said:


> I read to page 9 and got impatient.
> 
> Has anyone tried these on a 3071r or larger yet? My motor is getting built the first week of June and my pagparts billet 3071r will be going on shortly after. Can these handle high hp high boost?


I'm on a billet 3071 and have tested them without fault to over 40 psi boost, high dwell, low dwell. As long as you keep an eye on your gap and not let it get too big I've found they will keep performing like new for years.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

BlueSleeper said:


> I'm on a billet 3071 and have tested them without fault to over 40 psi boost, high dwell, low dwell. As long as you keep an eye on your gap and not let it get too big I've found they will keep performing like new for years.


do you have a gap that you prefer? what has your experience been?

for instance:

20psi = .040
25psi = .038
30psi = .036
35psi = .034
40psi = .032


----------



## Niagara_V_Dub (Sep 25, 2007)

So what's the best gap for just a unitronic stage 2 flashed K03s? I see alot of info for BT, but no regular turbo info for me.


----------



## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

18T_BT said:


> do you have a gap that you prefer? what has your experience been?
> 
> for instance:
> 
> ...


currently at .019 and 5ms dwell for 40psi on E85, but I may bump it back up after I run some good logs in the next few months. I'm still on dealership purchased MK4 R revision coils with 12 gauge power and ground wires with 18 gauge trigger wires, all tefzel spiral wound in a heat jacket covered with shrink tubing. I picked up a fresh set of R coils and it didn't make a difference. 

I'm not an EE expert, but I'm getting the feeling that when I used to let my plugs get bad or the gap to get too big it was putting a huge load on the coils and slowly killing them no matter the dwell settings. A fresh set of coils used to be like a brand new car. Once I started checking the gap every month or so, I stopped having problems with the coils. Before I was killing coils once every month or two, this last set has been solid for over 3 years. I write the date of replacement on the coils in sharpy pen because I used to go through so many.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

BlueSleeper said:


> currently at .019 and 5ms dwell for 40psi on E85, but I may bump it back up after I run some good logs in the next few months. I'm still on dealership purchased MK4 R revision coils with 12 gauge power and ground wires with 18 gauge trigger wires, all tefzel spiral wound in a heat jacket covered with shrink tubing. I picked up a fresh set of R coils and it didn't make a difference.
> 
> I'm not an EE expert, but I'm getting the feeling that when I used to let my plugs get bad or the gap to get too big it was putting a huge load on the coils and slowly killing them no matter the dwell settings. A fresh set of coils used to be like a brand new car. Once I started checking the gap every month or so, I stopped having problems with the coils. Before I was killing coils once every month or two, this last set has been solid for over 3 years. I write the date of replacement on the coils in sharpy pen because I used to go through so many.



So, you are talking about 1.8T coils, where this thread is about 2.0T coils

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen...um&utmcontent=apasternak&utm_campaign=newpost 

vs

http://www.ecstuning.com/News/VW_20...um&utmcontent=apasternak&utm_campaign=newpost


----------



## Rozy (Dec 5, 2010)

what are you gap the plug at with a stage 2 reflash?


----------



## redpig (Mar 29, 2004)

I read through this and I think I think I know the answer, do you need a spacer for the aww engine, if I read right the answer is no


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Why don't you bitches build first and ask last? Thaats how we build **** isn't it?


----------



## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

Spacer is required on all motors... my aww has them..


----------



## croftsco (Jun 4, 2012)

is it worth getting mk5 coilpacks for mk4 vr? just wondering


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

Before going bigport head and cutting the gap down I was running .035gap on a stage 2+ file with a hybrid KO4...


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Everyone keeps posting about being impatient. I'm running an E40 mix of e85, with 25psi now on a small port stock block with 3651 cams. 3076R. .038 and NO misfires. The car rips hard, period. If they are igniting that kind of charge, you can guess theyre pretty much fine at .038-.040 when they are in good shape with good plugs.


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## Ryan 1.8T (Jan 31, 2012)

croftsco said:


> is it worth getting mk5 coilpacks for mk4 vr? just wondering


 um maybe try the correct forum:banghead:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

gdoggmoney said:


> Everyone keeps posting about being impatient. I'm running an E40 mix of e85, with 25psi now on a small port stock block with 3651 cams. 3076R. .038 and NO misfires. The car rips hard, period. If they are igniting that kind of charge, you can guess theyre pretty much fine at .038-.040 when they are in good shape with good plugs.


 What you're saying is 100% correct and applicable to your setup gdogg :thumbup:. 

I choose to give my input on your post because I know that you are logical enough to understand what I'm trying to say and won't get defensive as if I was calling you out, because I'm not. To even go further with what you're saying, other setups that are less aggressive than yours may even allow wider gaps. 

However, the problem is that most people reading this thread are looking for a magic number and there is none. It all depend on your particular setup, people with less technical knowledge will read into your statement as if .038"-0.40" gap is the "goldilock range" and applicable to every 1.8t. The truth is that every setup calls for a different gap based on many factors, and since the maximum spark energy that the coils will produce is constant (providing that everything else is running optimally), the pressure seen in-cylinder is what dictates the proper gap. For example, my car at 35+ psi and aggressive timing will be in spark blowout land at .038"-.040" gap. Due to the pressure I'm subjecting the combustion chamber while on-boost, I have to run these very same MK5 coils at


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> What you're saying is 100% correct and applicable to your setup gdogg :thumbup:.
> 
> I choose to give my input on your post because I know that you are logical enough to understand what I'm trying to say and won't get defensive as if I was calling you out, because I'm not. To even go further with what you're saying, other setups that are less aggressive than yours may even allow wider gaps.
> 
> However, the problem is that most people reading this thread are looking for a magic number and there is none. It all depend on your particular setup, people with less technical knowledge will read into your statement as if .038"-0.40" gap is the "goldilock range" and applicable to every 1.8t. The truth is that every setup calls for a different gap based on many factors, and since the maximum spark energy that the coils will produce is constant (providing that everything else is running optimally), the pressure seen in-cylinder is what dictates the proper gap. For example, my car at 35+ psi and aggressive timing will be in spark blowout land at .038"-.040" gap. Due to the pressure I'm subjecting the combustion chamber while on-boost, I have to run these very same MK5 coils at


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

pretty sure my .036" bkr7e do not like my 20psi tune right now.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Twopnt016v said:


> Yes people have used them in HHP applications with success. I've heard one person report he "killed" one on the dyno. That being said he has the fasted 1.8t in north america:laugh:...


 I think you already know this...but the fastest 1.8T in North America is now running an Autronics SM4 with those crazy Spark plug wire thingies. Can't remember what coils he's running...but they aren't Bosch that's for sure.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

Chickenman35 said:


> I think you already know this...but the fastest 1.8T in North America is now running an Autronics SM4 with those crazy Spark plug wire thingies. Can't remember what coils he's running...but they aren't Bosch that's for sure.


 Yeah that post was from around the time he was reporting blowing a mk5 coil up on the dyno. His new set up looks killer:thumbup:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Chickenman35 said:


> I think you already know this...but the fastest 1.8T in North America is now running an Autronics SM4 with those crazy Spark plug wire thingies. Can't remember what coils he's running...but they aren't Bosch that's for sure.


 I'm going to be testing an AEM CDI on my 5857 Audi with their CDI pencil coils. (They are really delphi coils I believe) 

I've heard nothing but horror stories about these things. TRIAL BY FIRE TIME!!!


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## melodystyle2003 (Feb 1, 2010)

Great info here guys. 

What do you suggest for an 1.8T 20V engine, forged running a GT3071r turbo at 27psi? 
BKR8EIX 0.35" gapped with 06H905115 coils or 06H905115B? 
Cause the 06B905115E can not offer proper ignition and they dont last more than 5-6 months. 

Cheers


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

melodystyle2003 said:


> Great info here guys.
> 
> What do you suggest for an 1.8T 20V engine, forged running a GT3071r turbo at 27psi?
> BKR8EIX 0.35" gapped with 06H905115 coils or 06H905115B?
> ...


 How about testing to find the ideal gap for your specific setup? 

Start with a tight gap (say 0.022") and with the car fully warmed and heat soaked go for a series of high gear pulls (important to do this in the highest possible gear because the higher loads seen make the engine more prone to spark blowout). After two clean, and solid pulls, increase the gap and go for some more until you start blowing the spark, and then back it down a notch to give you a little safety net.


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## melodystyle2003 (Feb 1, 2010)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> How about testing to find the ideal gap for your specific setup?
> 
> Start with a tight gap (say 0.022") and with the car fully warmed and heat soaked go for a series of high gear pulls (important to do this in the highest possible gear because the higher loads seen make the engine more prone to spark blowout). After two clean solid pulls, increase the gap and go for some more until you start blowing the spark, and then back it down a notch to give you a little safety net.


 I had that in mind  

I ll start with ngk un-gapped and see how is going. 
I ll inform this topic with my findings. 

Cheers


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

i have these need to install the new wiring harness, coil pack repair harness. debating on wotboxing the car, may make the install easier lol


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## D_B_Jetta (Apr 27, 2006)

I've been running these since Jan. No complaints.

.038" gap when installed.
Changing plugs this weekend and will update current gap.

I just pulled a dyno run of 301whp and 335lb/ft yesterday on (Canadian) Shell 91 (no ethanol)
And second pull of 297hp and 334lb/ft

Now at 390 000km (+/-242000mi)

I'm averaging 7.5 - 8L/100km (29-31mpg)

:beer:
G



D_B_Jetta said:


> Installed this upgrade last night.
> 
> Car: 2002 Jetta, AWP, 5sp, 350000km(220000mi ish)
> 
> ...


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

301whp on an APR K04?:sly:

Someone is lying to you...301bhp possibly whp:what:


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## D_B_Jetta (Apr 27, 2006)

Because my car, was 'pumped-up', and not the other 24 cars with realistic and repeatable numbers.

Not 'Just' a K04, there is other physical mods and tuning done. This is why I quoted myself, to include my list, rather than re-writing it.

:beer:
G


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

D_B_Jetta said:


> Because my car, was 'pumped-up', and not the other 24 cars with realistic and repeatable numbers.
> 
> Not 'Just' a K04, there is other physical mods and tuning done. This is why I quoted myself, to include my list, rather than re-writing it.
> 
> ...


Don't trust those numbers. I had a K04-23 in my old BAM 225 motor with all mods possible except cams and I did 273BHP, not wheel, at 27psi peak on Shell Vpower using a custom map. There is no way you will get 300WHP from this turbo as is.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Gulfstream said:


> Don't trust those numbers. I had a K04-23 in my old BAM 225 motor with all mods possible except cams and I did 273BHP, not wheel, at 27psi peak on Shell Vpower using a custom map. There is no way you will get 300WHP from this turbo as is.


The big question is at what psi he's running his turbo? The problem is 91 pump may not support the boost and heat generated to make that kind of power (at least without cooling aids like water/meth). That's where it gets fishy, maybe that dyno is generous in general, who knows.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> The big question is at what psi he's running his turbo? The problem is 91 pump may not support the boost and heat generated to make that kind of power (at least without cooling aids like water/meth). That's where it gets fishy, maybe that dyno is generous in general, who knows.


Hey Marcus while youre here. Im getting a Cat 3651 intake cam and will keep my exhaust cam. What will that do with my timing?


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Gulfstream said:


> Hey Marcus while youre here. Im getting a Cat 3651 intake cam and will keep my exhaust cam. What will that do with my timing?


Not familiar to the cam profile and characteristic so I can't accurately tell. I'll see if I can dig out some data and maybe shoot you a PM with how I think they'll affect your timing.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Not familiar to the cam profile and characteristic so I can't accurately tell. I'll see if I can dig out some data and maybe shoot you a PM with how I think they'll affect your timing.


awesome :beer:


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## epraia12 (Jun 6, 2010)

What is the difference between the red and black coils?


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Red or black, possible revision codes... Mostly preference.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

picked up a time capsule survivor 55k mile 98 B5 1.8T quattro after my MKVI was totaled. 


Moved it from a fresh ICM and old 3 pin coils to the 2.0t coils. 

Car runs amazing compared to how it did before. :thumbup:


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## Andaloons (Apr 16, 2004)

Nice find!! Well done. 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

gdoggmoney said:


> picked up a time capsule survivor 55k mile 98 B5 1.8T quattro after my MKVI was totaled.
> 
> 
> Moved it from a fresh ICM and old 3 pin coils to the 2.0t coils.
> ...


 Whoa! You're still with us :wave:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

DMVDUB said:


> Whoa! You're still with us :wave:


 Indeed. Busy busy, daughters chemo treatments wrapping up in november, I have a junkyard of VAG cars to move to Georgia, just accepted a job outside atlanta. 


My MKVI was totalled 2 weeks ago so I picked up the cleanest lowest mileage early b5 I could find because I like pain and a light wallet.:laugh:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

gdoggmoney said:


> Indeed. Busy busy, daughters chemo treatments wrapping up in november, I have a junkyard of VAG cars to move to Georgia, just accepted a job outside atlanta.
> 
> 
> My MKVI was totalled 2 weeks ago so I picked up the cleanest lowest mileage early b5 I could find because I like pain and a light wallet.:laugh:


 PS if you want my pagparts kit, i could use to get rid of it cheap. I've got less to haul 1000 miles that way. I'd even part it and keep the turbo.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

gdoggmoney said:


> PS if you want my pagparts kit, i could use to get rid of it cheap. I've got less to haul 1000 miles that way. I'd even part it and keep the turbo.


 I just dumped a bunch of money into my jeep and school this semester. I'd love to have a PPT kit . Can't wait to finally finish my degree. Can'r believe you still have it... . eace:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

DMVDUB said:


> I just dumped a bunch of money into my jeep and school this semester. I'd love to have a PPT kit . Can't wait to finally finish my degree. Can'r believe you still have it... . eace:


 Me too, with how cheap I am asking for what is a 5000 mile old kit. 

:facepalm: 

Economy sucks bad.


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## ADF40 (Jun 21, 2012)

Well by the gap chart on the previous page im on the top with 20 lbs of boost but my plugs keep fouling after maybe 1500-2000 miles and idea what that could be. Im running an AWP stock with a revo 93 octane flash. any help would be appreciated


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Adf40,

Make a dedicated thread and we'll give you a hand.

No need to get into it here =D


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## CesarinGTI (Mar 27, 2007)

im 03 awp unitronic stage II GTI 

just fried 1 coil --- now im wondering if i should get the mk5 coils rather than the "E" .... any recommends on personal exp.. 

Thanks guys :thumbup::beer:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

CesarinGTI said:


> im 03 awp unitronic stage II GTI
> 
> just fried 1 coil --- now im wondering if i should get the mk5 coils rather than the "E" .... any recommends on personal exp..
> 
> Thanks guys :thumbup::beer:


Seriously it's a waste of money. They don't do anything different. I popped all but one of my 2.0T coils running 3.5dwell. I've run dwell at 4 on OEM new revision coils and they're running strong. I'm going to see how high I can go before they pop.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

DMVDUB said:


> Seriously it's a waste of money. They don't do anything different. I popped all but one of my 2.0T coils running 3.5dwell. I've run dwell at 4 on OEM new revision coils and they're running strong. I'm going to see how high I can go before they pop.


Not sure if thee is any point in running any more than 3.0 ms dwell on the OEM coils. Bruce Bowling tested the VW coils ( non TFSI ) on the LS2 thread and there was no increase in coil out-put over 3.0 ms. All it did was create more heat.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Chickenman35 said:


> Not sure if thee is any point in running any more than 3.0 ms dwell on the OEM coils. Bruce Bowling tested the VW coils ( non TFSI ) on the LS2 thread and there was no increase in coil out-put over 3.0 ms. All it did was create more heat.


Agreed. I've seen much higher coil temps running more than 2.2ms dwell. I have no less power with 2.0ms dwell on top. Another positive thing with the 2.0t coils I've come across is while they are longer more of them reach outside the head and can be easier to cool than the 1.8t coils. I'll have two NACA ducts leading cold ram air at them next season.


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## CesarinGTI (Mar 27, 2007)

Gulfstream said:


> Agreed. I've seen much higher coil temps running more than 2.2ms dwell. I have no less power with 2.0ms dwell on top. Another positive thing with the 2.0t coils I've come across is while they are longer more of them reach outside the head and can be easier to cool than the 1.8t coils. I'll have two NACA ducts leading cold ram air at them next season.


so - looking at this i came to a conclusion that the 2.0t coils are more bang for your buck :! :thumbup:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Gulfstream said:


> Agreed. I've seen much higher coil temps running more than 2.2ms dwell. I have no less power with 2.0ms dwell on top. Another positive thing with the 2.0t coils I've come across is while they are longer more of them reach outside the head and can be easier to cool than the 1.8t coils. I'll have two NACA ducts leading cold ram air at them next season.


This is good to know! I'll start lowering the Dwell on my files from now on to extend coil pack life. :thumbup:


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## CesarinGTI (Mar 27, 2007)

great info guys>thanks!!

one more question --- I've noticed that the 2.0T coils are longer... Does the ECS hold downs Clear?????


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Wondering if any one makes the 2.0 coil spacers in Phenolic? That would be much better than aluminum for isolating the coils from valve cover heat.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Chickenman35 said:


> Wondering if any one makes the 2.0 coil spacers in Phenolic? That would be much better than aluminum for isolating the coils from valve cover heat.


I didn't use any spacers and they held in fine... technically wouldn't that be the best since there's less touching the coil? It could get more air around it...


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

DMVDUB said:


> I didn't use any spacers and they held in fine... technically wouldn't that be the best since there's less touching the coil? It could get more air around it...


Yes, but you need the plug hole sealed. You do not want to get any water or other debris accumulating in the Plug well. It's amazing how much grit and debris gets blown about in the engine compartment. And water spray from washing engine bay can cause seizing of spark plugs in head ( corrosion ) if some gets in there.

Happens all the time on Ford Tristar Modular engines because the deep well spark plug holes are not sealed from water ingress. One of the very few engine manufacturers who did not have a proper water/dirt sealing design for deep well plug holes and they have massive warranty claims because of it. That and being dumb enough to spec a spark plug that only engages about 3-4 threads in an aluminum cylinder head :screwy:


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

Chickenman35 said:


> Yes, but you need the plug hole sealed. You do not want to get any water or other debris accumulating in the Plug well. It's amazing how much grit and debris gets blown about in the engine compartment. And water spray from washing engine bay can cause seizing of spark plugs in head ( corrosion ) if some gets in there.
> 
> Happens all the time on Ford Tristar Modular engines because the deep well spark plug holes are not sealed from water ingress. One of the very few engine manufacturers who did not have a proper water/dirt sealing design for deep well plug holes and they have massive warranty claims because of it. That and being dumb enough to spec a spark plug that only engages about 3-4 threads in an aluminum cylinder head :screwy:


Oh the joys I have had buying $300 worth of special tools to remove those stupid broken off plugs. And the 3 valve 5.4 plugs. So dumb


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## svalente (Jan 14, 2012)

Chickenman35 said:


> Yes, but you need the plug hole sealed. You do not want to get any water or other debris accumulating in the Plug well. It's amazing how much grit and debris gets blown about in the engine compartment. And water spray from washing engine bay can cause seizing of spark plugs in head ( corrosion ) if some gets in there.
> 
> Happens all the time on Ford Tristar Modular engines because the deep well spark plug holes are not sealed from water ingress. One of the very few engine manufacturers who did not have a proper water/dirt sealing design for deep well plug holes and they have massive warranty claims because of it. That and being dumb enough to spec a spark plug that only engages about 3-4 threads in an aluminum cylinder head :screwy:


Well this is good to know, I might pick up a set now. Mine were holding fine and I didn't think anything of it, but I wouldnt want my plugs to be seized in the head.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

svalente said:


> Well this is good to know, I might pick up a set now. Mine were holding fine and I didn't think anything of it, but I wouldnt want my plugs to be seized in the head.


Funny this came up. I had a mouse get into my engine bay and build a nest around coil 1. I had to do the following:

Use a shop vac with a hose to vacuum debris out after popping coil out. Use another smaller hose between plug and bore to get stuff there. 

Next remove plug without touching sides of bore in order to NOT knock debris into plug hole.

Finally, larger hose formed to shop vac inlet and put into plug bore to get final debris out.


This took 2 hours to do without knocking mouse nest debris that came from the wiring harness insulation into plug hole.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

^ I'm sorry..but that's just frackin' hilarious!!! :laugh: Proves the point rather well though :beer:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Chickenman35 said:


> ^ I'm sorry..but that's just frackin' hilarious!!! :laugh: Proves the point rather well though :beer:


Agreed, and yes  


It was tedious and painful. But was done thanks to many amounts of various hose on hand and creativity.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

gdoggmoney said:


> Agreed, and yes
> 
> 
> It was tedious and painful. But was done thanks to many amounts of various hose on hand and creativity.


I was looking through the Etka catalog, and one of the Accessories for my 1998 Audi was an " Anti Rodent Kit ". I kid you not!! :laugh: 

Back on topic...


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## svalente (Jan 14, 2012)

gdoggmoney said:


> Funny this came up. I had a mouse get into my engine bay and build a nest around coil 1. I had to do the following:
> 
> Use a shop vac with a hose to vacuum debris out after popping coil out. Use another smaller hose between plug and bore to get stuff there.
> 
> ...


Jeeeez forget that. Time to order some of them after Christmas.


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## sounds good (Sep 26, 2006)

So just to clear the air... After reading this thread 

If you want Black coils packs use part number 07K 905 715 F
If you want red use 06e 905 115e

Is this the most up to date info?


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## dubluv2003 (Oct 22, 2010)

Ok, So I just tried to read through all 26 pages of this information, banter, and chatter.. Most of which was over my head in relation to certain statistics, numbers and whatnot. Just trying to find out some quick info..

I have an 03 AWP with APR Stage 2, k-04-001, Kinetic FMIC, 3" TBE, SRI, Forge DV (if any of the supporting mods are relevant) and Im having some misfires and what seems like a complete coil/spark failure at sertain RPM's. Long story short Im replacing coilpacks, and plugs.. Was thinking of doing the conversion with the 06E905115E coils. Based off the info I provided where is a good place to start regarding plug gap? Ive seen numbers from .028 to .040. Seems like a big difference in numbers. Any input?


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## A-Bugg (Oct 24, 2000)

I did this conversion to my AWP 1.8t back in November. Just thought I'd give some more information for people.

I have Revo(stage 1?) and no other mods, stock air filter in the stock air box.

NGK BKR7E plugs gapped to .034.

I still have a stight dip in the idle but it's not as bad as it was. I was thinking of going up to .040
My gas milage has gone up about 10% as well.


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## Mushasho! (Sep 10, 2003)

Hate to revive an old thread... but has anyone through the years of use found an engine bay temp that was hot enough to cause malfunction regardless of how new of a coil it was?

I have a situation that has been tracked down to heat soaked 2.0t coils. Rough Idle, Misfires ect... blow cool air on the coils and it gradually fixes itself.

Thoughts


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

Ive never come across this

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Mushasho! said:


> Hate to revive an old thread... but has anyone through the years of use found an engine bay temp that was hot enough to cause malfunction regardless of how new of a coil it was?
> 
> I have a situation that has been tracked down to heat soaked 2.0t coils. Rough Idle, Misfires ect... blow cool air on the coils and it gradually fixes itself.
> 
> Thoughts


Yup, been there. That's why I make a naca duct in the hood to feed cold air to the coils/head when I race. I race 20min cirquit sessions so everything gets blistering hot.


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

Heat shields, turbo blankets, etc. do not help with this? Perhaps 034's coil cover?

On another note, anyone familiar with the latest coil packs? The part # is 06J905110G. These coil packs are found on the latest Audi S3 and Golf R 2.0T's as far as I can tell. I'm wondering if they are much better in terms of power (spark)? More reliable? Any idea if they would even fit?

https://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_VII--2.0T_Gen3/Engine/Ignition/Coil/ES2860982/


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

I made this shield which extends all the way down to the mani. When I add a naca duct to lead cold air to the coils I'll be set.


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Chris164935 said:


> Heat shields, turbo blankets, etc. do not help with this? Perhaps 034's coil cover?
> 
> On another note, anyone familiar with the latest coil packs? The part # is 06J905110G. These coil packs are found on the latest Audi S3 and Golf R 2.0T's as far as I can tell. I'm wondering if they are much better in terms of power (spark)? More reliable? Any idea if they would even fit?
> 
> https://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_VII--2.0T_Gen3/Engine/Ignition/Coil/ES2860982/



Interesting... curious about these as well...


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## Mushasho! (Sep 10, 2003)

Those S3 coils aren't plug n play...
The connector is dimensionally different....
Will not plug into our harness...
The pinout layout is inverted as well,...
It is shorter than 1.8t coils as well...

The good news is that the rubber boot does detach from the coil and finding a longer boot should fix the length problem.

The connector problem is easy to fix too, but requires a plug kit and repinning tools. Not sure if any of this is worth it until we test the performance of this coil to be superior to a 2.0t coil.










Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

I'm currently installing a stand-alone engine for my motor. I haven't decided what ignition setup I want to run yet. I was leaning towards running LS2 coils when I saw these new style of coil packs. They definitely look bigger than 1.8t and even the 2.0t coils. Sucks that the plug is different. I did notice that the boot could be taken off and replaced (ECS Tuning sells just the boots for these new coil packs as well).

Mushasho, do you happen to know how much shorter the boot is on these new coils vs. a 1.8t coil's boot?


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## Mushasho! (Sep 10, 2003)

Chris164935 said:


> I'm currently installing a stand-alone engine for my motor. I haven't decided what ignition setup I want to run yet. I was leaning towards running LS2 coils when I saw these new style of coil packs. They definitely look bigger than 1.8t and even the 2.0t coils. Sucks that the plug is different. I did notice that the boot could be taken off and replaced (ECS Tuning sells just the boots for these new coil packs as well).
> 
> Mushasho, do you happen to know how much shorter the boot is on these new coils vs. a 1.8t coil's boot?


About 3/8"-1/2" ... Enough to not let the inner wire contact the spark plug... 
I'm working on finding a suitable boot as I'm experiencing weak performance once these 2.0t coils heat soak.

I hope these are more resilient to such things...

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

What about late 90s bmw coil packs? IIRC they were extremely similar to ours, but the boots were a little longer.


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## Mushasho! (Sep 10, 2003)

BSD said:


> What about late 90s bmw coil packs? IIRC they were extremely similar to ours, but the boots were a little longer.


E36?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Boosted BMW's over here in Europe use VAG 1.8T coils as they are the best oem coil available...


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## Mushasho! (Sep 10, 2003)

Gulfstream said:


> Boosted BMW's over here in Europe use VAG 1.8T coils as they are the best oem coil available...


We understand that, we're just looking for the removable boot in order to use the S3/Golf R style coils.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

Was doing some quick Googling and found this: https://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Passat_B5-FWD-1.8T/ES1727/
It says it is for AEB engines; those coils have the same length boots as the 4-wire 1.8t coil packs.

Looking at it again, it might not be long enough, but I'm not sure where the boot comes off at on the S3/Golf R coil packs, so it's hard to tell.


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

Mushasho! said:


> E36?
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


Yes sir! Maybe I'll swing by the junkyard this week and do some mearsuring! Bunch of COP cars in my local yard.


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## Wolfeie (Oct 22, 2015)

Ok, admittedly lame a$$ NOOB here on the 1.8 (AWP). I recently bought a '01 TTq creampuff. 82K miles, garage stored, only driven in the summer by a rich wife, clean carfax, new timing belt, water pump, MAF, coils. Car is near new and I'm very pleased with my purchase. Denim blue/denim blue, 100% stock. Everything works.

I use it as a daily driver. I live at 10,000' and commute down to 5,280' and back; 100 miles each way.

Am I reading this thread right that these 2.0 coils are a DIRECT DROP IN that can improve fuel burn, economy, and performance for under $75?!? (AWP)


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Wolfeie said:


> Ok, admittedly lame a$$ NOOB here on the 1.8 (AWP). I recently bought a '01 TTq creampuff. 82K miles, garage stored, only driven in the summer by a rich wife, clean carfax, new timing belt, water pump, MAF, coils. Car is near new and I'm very pleased with my purchase. Denim blue/denim blue, 100% stock. Everything works.
> 
> I use it as a daily driver. I live at 10,000' and commute down to 5,280' and back; 100 miles each way.
> 
> Am I reading this thread right that these 2.0 coils are a DIRECT DROP IN that can improve fuel burn, economy, and performance for under $75?!? (AWP)


Nope. 1.8t and 2.0t coils perform identical. I proved that on a dyno.


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## aTm papi (Apr 10, 2013)

:/

Enviado desde mi Nexus 5 mediante Tapatalk


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Gulfstream said:


> Nope. 1.8t and 2.0t coils perform identical. I proved that on a dyno.


:beer:


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## SaiB (Apr 20, 2011)

HI, whats best plug and gap for 1.8t with GT28RS and 2.0T coils conversion?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

SaiB said:


> HI, whats best plug and gap for 1.8t with GT28RS and 2.0T coils conversion?


.024 ngk 4644 plugs and 10k mile change intervals.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Neither. Run the ign1-a.


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Neither. Run the ign1-a.


Those look pretty nice. I wonder if anyone runs these on the 1.8T?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Don't know if anyone has, but they should work just fine. They use the same trigger sequence as stock coils


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