# How much power can stock internals handle?



## vdubbilly (Aug 22, 2010)

Any idea?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

vdubbilly said:


> Any idea?


We've put out over 400 ft-lbs to the wheels with stage 3 calibrations on stock rods. We did not keep this for our production files though.  Never had any rod issues. So far they are looking good. They are thicker than the FSI, are not riffle drilled and are of a better stronger material. I think they can handle more torque than the FSI's. With a sample group of several thousand rods not bending on FSI/TSI stage 3 kits, I believe it's safe to say the power output from the APR stage 3 kit is stock rod safe.


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## vdubbilly (Aug 22, 2010)

That's what I wanted to hear. I doubt I'll see 400hp but I am thinking stage III already. If you're already stage II. Is it as simple as bolting up a KO4 or similar and flashing new software or is there more to it? HFFP's?

Obviously, an intercooler wouldn't be a bad idea, either...


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The APR Stage 3 kit for the TSI is amazingly simple for your 2009 VW GTI TSI.

1. We have a full install manual. 

2. All the coolant and oil lines are higher than OEM quality, flexible with bent hard lines at the end (just like the OEM)

3. No injectors to install. 

4. No high pressure fuel pump to install. 

5. No low pressure fuel pump to install. 

6. Bolt it on, flash with software at an APR dealer, drive away!


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

so the TSI can support 400 whp with stock fueling options?
sweet tits!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Torque, not HP.


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## Jrok (Jun 28, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> We've put out over 400 ft-lbs to the wheels with stage 3 calibrations on stock rods.


Oh.. that should be a option at least.... Select "Rod Bender" mode at end user peril !

Edit: that would be insanely fun on a little car like the GTi


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## heimbachae (Apr 8, 2009)

And how much torque can a stock clutch handle? doesn't do much good if you have a 400HP car that can only handle 300ft/lbs of torque and the clutch goes bye bye in a matter of months. I'm rockin an '09 GTI btw.


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## ryan mills (May 3, 2002)

heimbachae said:


> And how much torque can a stock clutch handle? doesn't do much good if you have a 400HP car that can only handle 300ft/lbs of torque and the clutch goes bye bye in a matter of months. I'm rockin an '09 GTI btw.


The stock clutch on the 2009 GTI is good for about 20*8* ft lbs. of torque. They suck, but all they need is a different disk to handle 35-4000 ft lbs without any problem.


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## vdubbilly (Aug 22, 2010)

Didn't know the OEM clutch was such a POS. I'll put it on the list of things to upgrade.


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## stanielz (Oct 2, 2009)

jesus, id hate to see the dsg ratings, anyone know?


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## Track5tar (Feb 16, 2010)

stanielz said:


> jesus, id hate to see the dsg ratings, anyone know?


x2


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## bitbckt (May 26, 2010)

stanielz said:


> jesus, id hate to see the dsg ratings, anyone know?


It's quoted by VAG as limited to 265 ft-lb in the VW iteration, but it's been taken close to (if not above) 400 ft-lb. by folks like APR.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

stanielz said:


> jesus, id hate to see the dsg ratings, anyone know?


Infinity so it seams. 


This guy finally upgraded his DSG clutch. Not sure if it was slipping or he just wanted to upgrade it. At the time he had over 80k on the stock clutch, most of which was stage 3/4, launched all the time, run on 100 octane all the time and drag raced at the track and on the street constantly.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> so the TSI can support 400 whp with stock fueling options?
> sweet tits!





[email protected] said:


> Torque, not HP.


My bad, but 400 wtq is even better!



stanielz said:


> jesus, id hate to see the dsg ratings, anyone know?


 Zevion on golfmkv started to have problems with his DSG at 500 whp on his turbo R32.

They do sell upgraded clutch packs for the DSG so you could handle more power, but I have yet to see any data to back all that up.


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## mikeg6045 (Apr 14, 2010)

ryan mills said:


> The stock clutch on the 2009 GTI is good for about 20*8* ft lbs. of torque. They suck, but all they need is a different disk to handle 35-4000 ft lbs without any problem.


the stock tsi pressure plate is rated for 400 lb-ft


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## heimbachae (Apr 8, 2009)

mikeg6045 said:


> the stock tsi pressure plate is rated for 400 lb-ft


so it's good i asked! thanks bras!!!!


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## mikeg6045 (Apr 14, 2010)

heimbachae said:


> so it's good i asked! thanks bras!!!!


pressure plate is good, like i said for 400 lb/ft, but the stock clutch disk will burn up quickly approaching 3/4ths of that or less.

Luckily Southbend makes a drop-in clutch DISK that will bulletproof the entire clutch up to 400 lb-ft's.


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## vdubbilly (Aug 22, 2010)

Good to know, I need a clutch.

All I'm seeing online is the kits, though. Where do I find just the drop-in clutch disk?


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> Torque, not HP.



Wait, what?

Isn't injector flow rate a function of HP? I'm pretty sure it is.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

dohc said:


> Wait, what?
> 
> Isn't injector flow rate a function of HP? I'm pretty sure it is.




I never said it was or wasn't.


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## mikeg6045 (Apr 14, 2010)

vdubbilly said:


> Good to know, I need a clutch.
> 
> All I'm seeing online is the kits, though. Where do I find just the drop-in clutch disk?


http://www.futrellautowerks.com/SBC-TSI-Stage-III-Clutch-Disk-P167.aspx

http://www.dbcperformance.com/CDTSI0FESO10542_p/cdtsi0feso10542.htm


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> I never said it was or wasn't.


Actually you did above.


Anyways, what is the TSI limited too injector/fuel flow wise?

450hp?


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## Aguilar (Jan 28, 2006)

dohc said:


> Actually you did above.
> 
> 
> Anyways, what is the TSI limited too injector/fuel flow wise?
> ...


Actually, he did not. 

And start your own thread instead of derailing this one by asking questions most of us know and it's easily accessible by a search query. In other words, GTFO.


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

Aguilar said:


> Actually, he did not.
> 
> And start your own thread instead of derailing this one by asking questions most of us know and it's easily accessible by a search query. In other words, GTFO.


VirtualHeretic asked:

"so the TSI can support 400 whp with _*stock fueling options*_?
sweet tits! "

[email protected] answered:

"_*Torque*_, not HP"

Aguilar, I wasn't trying to be a douche, but it looks like you are. I was just trying to get something cleared up that relates to this thread. I think there was just some confusion between Arin and VirtualHeretic. Arin answered the perceived question of how much torque the stock rods could handle. Not a big deal.

My question is related to this thread, because who cares how much HP/torque the stock internals can handle if we can't fuel it? Have to get there first. Also, tried searching and nothing came up about how much fuel the stock injection system is capable of supplying.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

You're mistaken. I didn't. 


See below:



vdubbilly said:


> How much power can stock internals handle? Any idea?





[email protected] said:


> We've put out over 400 ft-lbs to the wheels with stage 3 calibrations on stock rods. We did not keep this for our production files though.





ViRtUaLheretic said:


> so the TSI can support 400 whp with stock fueling options?
> sweet tits!





[email protected] said:


> Torque, not HP.




Someone asked *"how much power the stock internals can handle."*
I said *"we put down 400 ft-lbs to the wheels on the stock rods but did not keep it that way for production."*
Someone else said *"so it can handle 400 whp on stock fueling?"*
I corrected him and said *"Torque, not HP"* as I was stating we put down 400 ft-lbs of torque with the stage 3 kit, not 400 hp.


No comment on fuel limitations yet although we do have upgrade here ready to roll out if we do run out. :laugh:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> No comment on fuel limitations yet although we do have upgrade here ready to roll out if we do run out. :laugh:


 
OooooOOOooOOooooooh, HPFP or LPFP?


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

Arin, I guess I was wrong...whatever.

So-oh your saying that you haven't run outta fuel yet with a TSI...what HP have you gone to so far?

Also, what are these upgrades you speak of?


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## Aguilar (Jan 28, 2006)

Sorry, I did make myself look like a douche. But I'm still glad you realized you were wrong. 

In the end we are all happy to hear the TSI has some great potential.


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

Aguilar said:


> Sorry, I did make myself look like a douche. But I'm still glad you realized you were wrong.
> 
> In the end we are all happy to hear the TSI has some great potential.


Yah, I try not to get myself involved in bickering posts, but it happens once in a while.

It's all good bro, no worries.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

I can't give out any information on fueling limitations quite yet. The other companies out there will need to conduct their own research with their own money. Sorry guys.


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> I can't give out any information on fueling limitations quite yet. The other companies out there will need to conduct their own research with their own money. Sorry guys.


More then understood 

Hopefully direct injection knowledge becomes public domain in a few years just like manifold injection knowledge is...hopefully prices will match too :sly:


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## mcweld1 (Sep 11, 2010)

*He erin from apr*

Hey erin, i think its great that you are on here answering questions, so thank you. Its very helpfull. When is the 2011 stage I flash gonna be ready? I went to the dealer about two weeks ago, he said it was ready, he hooked up the computer, then gave me a hard time because the 2011 wasnt ready yet. I was very confused. I'd like to go back when I hear from apr that the flash is ready. thanks, jason


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## mikeg6045 (Apr 14, 2010)

mcweld1 said:


> Hey erin, i think its great that you are on here answering questions, so thank you. Its very helpfull. When is the 2011 stage I flash gonna be ready? I went to the dealer about two weeks ago, he said it was ready, he hooked up the computer, then gave me a hard time because the 2011 wasnt ready yet. I was very confused. I'd like to go back when I hear from apr that the flash is ready. thanks, jason


what dealer ? did he know that the ecu has to be removed for the first bench flash ?

if you hook up through the obd2 port on a 2010 it will not accept either.


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## mcweld1 (Sep 11, 2010)

mikeg6045 said:


> what dealer ? did he know that the ecu has to be removed for the first bench flash ?
> 
> if you hook up through the obd2 port on a 2010 it will not accept either.


No, He took out the computer. Its the same engine, but he said the computer language is completly different, and I called apr and they said its not out yet. I just cant wait any more. How much stock boost do the gti's have? How much does it increse when you flash it?


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## mikeg6045 (Apr 14, 2010)

mcweld1 said:


> No, He took out the computer. Its the same engine, but he said the computer language is completly different, and I called apr and they said its not out yet. I just cant wait any more. How much stock boost do the gti's have? How much does it increse when you flash it?


Its a huge increase in power, not just boost.

imo you should hold off until APR gets a car in there shop to program. I'm sure they want to flash 2011's just as much if not more than you want the flash, so I would imagine it will come very soon.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

2011 flashing is right around the corner. Just a few more things on our end before we can get it out to our dealers.


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## mcweld1 (Sep 11, 2010)

great, I cant wait.:laugh:


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