# Mann ProVent 200 installed



## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

This is in a '01 TTQC. Main battery (Optima) has been relocated to trunk. Small, lightweight AGM motorcycle battery is in its place to provide add'l CCA and reduce amperage across the 4-guage wire to the trunk (which is protected by 120A fuse). Note the pancake valve is eliminated, because it's built in to the ProVent.


















This created enough room to mount the ProVent, which drains to the crankcase via the 034motorsports flange/adapter (pictured below). I needed to machine out the adapter to accommodate the turbo oil drain line that comes with the APR stage 3+ kit.


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## FullyLoadedCarat (Nov 20, 2010)

Don't know why 034 supplies that drain feed line. I would never consider draining anything that came out of my catch can back into the oil pan.


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## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

FullyLoadedCarat said:


> Don't know why 034 supplies that drain feed line. I would never consider draining anything that came out of my catch can back into the oil pan.


Crankcase will always have water (condensation) in it, anyway. If it's warming up to 200*F, it gets evaporated. Without a drain, the stuff collects at the bottom and has to be manually drained out. In cold Minnesota weather, this accumulated stuff would freeze up and create more problems.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

esoxlucios said:


> In cold Minnesota weather, this accumulated stuff would freeze up and create more problems.


Which is exactly what this is going to do, freeze up and cause more problems.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

esoxlucios said:


> Crankcase will always have water (condensation) in it, anyway. If it's warming up to 200*F, it gets evaporated. Without a drain, the stuff collects at the bottom and has to be manually drained out. In cold Minnesota weather, this accumulated stuff would freeze up and create more problems.


I drove a friends 2004 BMW the other day. BMW uses a factory oil separator system that looks exactly like the Provent. Drains straight back into the oil pan so I would think that end the argument about whether or not it's safe to drain back into the oil pan. 

The Mann Provent is also OEM equipment on many commercial Diesel engines. We have them on our 2008 and newer Prevosts with Series 60 Detroits. They all drain back to the sump.


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

My Provent 200 isnt recylcling back to the sump as i will be draining to a catch can in the inner arch.
I will keep an eye on it for now and assess whether i will pipe it back to the sump later on.
Hope youve fitted the NRV in the drain line.
Steve


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

20v master said:


> Which is exactly what this is going to do, freeze up and cause more problems.


No..it doesn't. This is a properly designed Oil separator system. Not some cheap E-Bay catch can. 

Made by one of the most reputable filter manufacturers in the world ( Mann ) and used as OEM equipment on most commercial Diesel engines sold these days. 

Check it out:

http://www.mann-hummel.com.sg/EN/industrialfilters/doc/ProVent-en.pdf


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

As said above.
Theses are a quality piece of kit that is used world wide on commercial diesel vehicles and IMHO a must for FI conversions that get high crankcase pressures.
Steve


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

http://www.diesel-filters.com/39310...strial-provent-200-si-industrial-off-highway/

good price for it.


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## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

20v master said:


> Which is exactly what this is going to do, freeze up and cause more problems.


Sorry if my post gave the impression that I just did this over the weekend. It's actually been on for four or five weeks now, and the weather has been below zero for several days. I've checked the filter and there is no frozen accumulation.


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## steve-o 16v GLI (Jun 26, 2005)

FullyLoadedCarat said:


> Don't know why 034 supplies that drain feed line. I would never consider draining anything that came out of my catch can back into the oil pan.


Haha. Where do you think the oil/water accumulated in a catch can comes from? It's already in your oil pan/crankcase! Main point of the catch can is to catch it before it goes to the intake n through the turbo. As said above its only goin to drain to the pan n reheat until it vaporizes the water again.


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## FullyLoadedCarat (Nov 20, 2010)

steve-o 16v GLI said:


> Haha. Where do you think the oil/water accumulated in a catch can comes from? It's already in your oil pan/crankcase! Main point of the catch can is to catch it before it goes to the intake n through the turbo. As said above its only goin to drain to the pan n reheat until it vaporizes the water again.


Don't know what goes into your catch can, but I'm sure as hell not draining what came out of mine back in. Looked like chunky chocolate milk...


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## Krissrock (Sep 10, 2005)

haha...my **** just froze on me yesterday...Not a good look. Cause your car to blow smoke!! 


when it comes to the winter, you gotta monitor these things. 
Another thing is that the lines themselves can start to accumulate oil and water vapor on the oil, which will freeze. 

However, I still don't think you want that going back into your oil, especially since there can be a LOT of water accumulation.

if anything, just let it drain to the ground!


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Edit: I was stressed out when I wrote this ( Sick Family member in hospital ). Looking back..this was not the best way to say what I meant. Please ignore this and read my posts below on water condensation levels in drain back and non-drain back systems and why the water concentration percentage will differ.

The problem is that you guys keep comparing basic oil catch can setups with a properly designed commercial OIL SEPARATOR that has been proven in *MILLIONS* of miles of commercial use in every climate possible. From Texas to Siberia. A commercial oil separator and your basic cheap ass catch can are NOT the same things. Get it? 

Yes your crap freezes up in a typical _E-bay catch can setup. That's because it's not properly designed and implemented. Have a look at the technical details of the Mann Provent ( a link was provided ) and you should be able to notice the difference.


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

Chickenman35 said:


> The problem is that you guys keep comparing basic oil catch can setups with a properly designed commercial OIL SEPARATOR that has been proven in *MILLIONS* of miles of commercial use in every climate possible. From Texas to Siberia. A commercial oil separator and your basic cheap ass catch can are NOT the same things. Get it?
> 
> Yes your crap freezes up in a typical _E-bay catch can setup. That's because it's not properly designed and implemented. Have a look at the technical details of the Mann Provent ( a link was provided ) and you should be able to notice the difference.


I agree with what youve quoted and i have one fitted as well, however the unit is not a seperating device and cannot distinguish between oil, water or aqueas solution but will remove solids or gunk too thick to pass through the filter. This is why i have an additional liquid trap connected to the discharge drain.
Steve


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Cheap ass ebay catch cans? So I guess you assume everyone besides you has purchased their catch cans from ebay? You do realize these are not the only two options on the market and many of said catch cans have quality R&D behind them. Its interesting how ignorant people can be when they so desperatly want a product they purchased, to perform better then anyone else's and they are reduced to insulting anyone that has an opinion other then what they want to hear. 

For future reference, anything posted is going to get some level of criticism. Remember, everyone here has an opinion, and just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean you have to insult the community as a whole. :thumbup:


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## Krissrock (Sep 10, 2005)

sTT eV6 said:


> I agree with what youve quoted and i have one fitted as well, however the unit is not a seperating device and cannot distinguish between oil, water or aqueas solution but will remove solids or gunk too thick to pass through the filter. This is why i have an additional liquid trap connected to the discharge drain.
> Steve


I agree as well...i'm sure it is better than at least one of my catch cans (I run two)...but I still would let it drain into the oil again. Not even the stock set up did that.

Btw, I run a Saiko Michi Catch, along with a homemade one in series. The saiko catches all the oil, and the second catch nothing but water.


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

I may let mine drain back in the future, but for now i will be keeping an eye on what is collected.
My engine cost a lot to build and for the sake of peace of mind, i will collect the returning liquid for now and check its suitability for returning to the pan.
Steve


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## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't see any problem with not draining to the pan and, instead, having a small collection reservoir that you empty out from time to time (especially if it will end the dispute about which catch can is better). :beer: It would eliminate the clutter of yet another stainless line and save a little weight.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Dowski12 said:


> Cheap ass ebay catch cans? So I guess you assume everyone besides you has purchased their catch cans from ebay? You do realize these are not the only two options on the market and many of said catch cans have quality R&D behind them. Its interesting how ignorant people can be when they so desperatly want a product they purchased, to perform better then anyone else's and they are reduced to insulting anyone that has an opinion other then what they want to hear.
> 
> For future reference, anything posted is going to get some level of criticism. Remember, everyone here has an opinion, and just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean you have to insult the community as a whole. :thumbup:


Please re-read my post with a bit more understanding and a little less knee jerk re-action. :thumbdown: I don't assume anything. I said you can have problems with cheap ASS E-Bay catch cans and you can. If you have a chaep ass E-bay can it's fair comment. If you have a quality unit then don't get your Panties in a Knot. 

Even some very expensive catch cans are poorly designed. But of course, there are other manufacturers that make very good designs. The catch cans by Arrington performance are a very good design. Tangential inlet ports to generate swirl and baffling to separate oil from the airflow are two very important design criteria. A proper filter median is also important...more so in diesel engines. 

I was trying to get the point across that a properly engineered oil separator/catch can setup has no issues with operating in cold temperatures. They are designed so that the circulating hot air from the crankcase warms any congealed oil and those thinned oils will then drain back into the sump. However, you seldom have much oil collect in the Separator body as it the oil is warm during operation and when the vehicle is shut off in extremely cold temperatures..there is little or no oil to drain. Period.

Edit: Sorry if I sound a bit gruff. But I have a family member in Hospital with a serious condition and I've been taking social skills development from Aaron...


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

BTW...I don't own one of these units, so I don't need to defend any reasoning to defend it. I have however worked in Commercial Transport for the last 20 years and know a fair bit about commercial diesel engines.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

sTT eV6 said:


> I agree with what youve quoted and i have one fitted as well, however the unit is not a seperating device and cannot distinguish between oil, water or aqueas solution but will remove solids or gunk too thick to pass through the filter. This is why i have an additional liquid trap connected to the discharge drain.
> Steve


Well aware of that Steve. :beer: The product is referred to as an oil separator ( By the manufacture ) because it is designed to separate the oil from the crankcase blowby by centrifugal action and collect the oil at the the bottom of the tank. I'm sure that you know that. It cannot differentiate between oil and water, but water is not a big issue, IF a properly designed and functioning PCV system is included for the manner that we use them.

Unfortunately, VW/Audi has a failure prone PCV system and one that doesn't work well at the best of times. Exception being the early AEB's on longitudinal engines. These work much better than later designs. No suction pumps. No rubber " Y " hoses that split and all one way check valves. Better filtration through block port as well. No ports on Valve Cover. Usually very little accumulation of oil in the Intake tract on early AEB's.


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

Reusing the blow-by is a sound idea. I dont understand how it separates the water from the oil before it reaches the oil pan again though..


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Chickenman35 said:


> BTW...I don't own one of these units, so I don't need to defend any reasoning to defend it. I have however worked in Commercial Transport for the last 20 years and know a fair bit about commercial diesel engines.


Sorry about that, I misread your post the first time. Thought "your cheapass ebay cans" was refering to the group in general. After rereading your previous post it makes more sense, my bad. 

Can understand the stress of having a loved one in the hospital, found out today that my father has colon cancer, hes only 49 years old


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Chuckmeister87 said:


> Reusing the blow-by is a sound idea. I dont understand how it separates the water from the oil before it reaches the oil pan again though..


It doesn't separate water from oil. It does separate the oil ( and any other liquid ) that is suspended in the oil mist created from the blow bye. The oil droplets ( and any other liquids ) collect on the sides of the tank from the centrifugal action. This then falls to the bottom of the tank. Meanwhile, the de-oiled crankcase air is recirculated into the engine via the intake tract.

The liquids at the bottom of the tank are then allowed to drain back into the sump. The water condensation in the crankcase blow bye is not a big deal. It evaporates at operating temperatures. One Caveat...see below.

Note; If the liquids at the bottom of the tank are not allowed to drain back to the sump, then that is when you will see an ugly congealed mess that can freeze up. All the water vapor mixes with the oil collected and becomes the gross mess. The water condensation would normally be evaporated when it returns to the high temperatures in the crankcase. When you don't drain back, the water percentage level increase and increases until you end up with the lovely chocolate fudge in the bottom of the catch tank.

That is why you should not equate what collects in a the bottom of a non-drained catch tank ( of any sort ) with one that is drained to the sump. Water condensation increases in a non-return system. It does not in a re-circulated system.

Now either way will work fine..it's just that you have to realize that a non-drain back type will look far worse ( as far as congealed oil mess ) than what is really happening in a re-circulated catch tank. BMW, Porsche ( and others ) and Commercial diesel manufacturers would not be using drain back systems if they didn't work...would they?


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Dowski12 said:


> Sorry about that, I misread your post the first time. Thought "your cheapass ebay cans" was refering to the group in general. After rereading your previous post it makes more sense, my bad.
> 
> Can understand the stress of having a loved one in the hospital, found out today that my father has colon cancer, hes only 49 years old


Sorry to hear that. Lets just put it down to we're both under a lot a stress. Peace. :beer:


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## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> . . . found out today that my father has colon cancer, hes only 49 years old


Warmest wishes and blessings for your dad, you, and your whole family. My dad died Nov. 29th from melanoma, and I hope your dad has a much better prognosis and that you can spend as much time with him as possible.

Sean


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

If I were in a cold weather climate, I would disconnect my catch can during the winter and just vent to atomsphere. Gotta be a better option than frozen/broken sh!t.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

esoxlucios said:


> Warmest wishes and blessings for your dad, you, and your whole family. My dad died Nov. 29th from melanoma, and I hope your dad has a much better prognosis and that you can spend as much time with him as possible.
> 
> Sean


Thanks for the kind words :thumbup:


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

Chickenman35 said:


> It doesn't separate water from oil. It does separate the oil ( and any other liquid ) that is suspended in the oil mist created from the blow bye. The oil droplets ( and any other liquids ) collect on the sides of the tank from the centrifugal action. This then falls to the bottom of the tank. Meanwhile, the de-oiled crankcase air is recirculated into the engine via the intake tract.
> 
> *The liquids at the bottom of the tank are then allowed to drain back into the sump. The water condensation in the crankcase blow bye is not a big deal. It evaporates at operating temperatures. One Caveat...see below.
> 
> ...


Interesting.. I don't quite understand how the evaporated water doesnt increase in the re-circulated system of the ProVent. If it evaporates, wont it just going round the merry-go-round again and again.. same path as the oil blow-by?


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

I think the oil blow by and evaporated water gets burnt in the engine, whereas the solids or oil drop out is collected.
Steve


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

sTT eV6 said:


> I think the oil blow by and evaporated water gets burnt in the engine, whereas the solids or oil drop out is collected.
> Steve


Correct. 

Once an engine is at operating temperature, water content in crankcase fumes turns into a vapor. Inside the crankcase, many components are well over the boiling point of water ( Piston bottoms etc ), so it turns to vapor or steam, and is re-circulated into the intake manifold and burned in the combustion chamber.

Oil has a much higher boiling point, so it does not turn into a vapor ( Note: A vapor is not the same as a mist ). Because the oil droplets in the crankcase oil " mist " are much heavier and larger than the vaporized water, they can be separated out using centrifugal force and baffling in a well designed catch tank or oil separator as you wish. 

This is why very short runs on an engine are so harmful. The water in blow-by gases does not get hot enough, for long enough, to be vaporized fully. Thus the water contend in the engine oil increases and then this combines with combustion gases to form acids in the motor oil. This is one reason why deleting a functioning PCV system and going to " Vent to Atmosphere " is a very bad idea on a daily driver. 

Reduction of acids and water in the motor oil is one of the main functions of a PCV system. Has been since it's introduction in 1961. Note the mention of the oil separator in the following article



> On some PCV systems, this oil baffling takes place in a discrete replaceable part called the oil separator.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankcase_ventilation_system


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

Thanks for the explanation :beer:


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## VRpoweredA2 (Oct 8, 2000)

MK3 VR6T visitor here.

This thing is interesting.

My 2 questions:

1) Wouldn't the re-introduction of the return from the separator after the MAF, cause deliverability issues especially under boost given that the MAF has already measured the density/temp of the air entering the engine for and the ecu is compensating accordingly? 

2) How much boost are you folks who have this setup running? 

I have my pcv venting to atmosphere currently. It exits down under the car but the fumes can at times permeate the cabin if I'm ever stopped and idling for a while. I've debated getting a catch can but stumbling across this setup is making me rethink. Just concerned of any risks to my motor.

:thumbup:




- Sent from a Galaxy Note 2


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> Can understand the stress of having a loved one in the hospital, found out today that my father has colon cancer, hes only 49 years old


Wishing the best to you and your family- I've been through a similar situation - hang in there man


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

It's best to recirculate as it will upset the balance if you don't.
BOV or no BOV is a separate subject.
I run 26psi.


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## steve-o 16v GLI (Jun 26, 2005)

VRpoweredA2 said:


> MK3 VR6T visitor here.
> 
> This thing is interesting.
> 
> ...


To answer your first ? You def want it after the maf. You don't want that oily gunk hitting your sensor and gumming it all up. It's plumbed in after the maf from the factory on 1.8ts. 
As for your other ? it really doesn't matter how much boost you run. Not sure what your concern is there.


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## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

steve-o 16v GLI said:


> it really doesn't matter how much boost you run. Not sure what your concern is there.


I think it might matter. In fact, the ProVent 200 is intended for applications up to 200L/min of flow, caused by blow by. Obviously, on a Caterpillar 16CM43, you're going to need one or maybe even two of the Provent 800 filters, which support up to 1,000L/min. each. The more displacement and/or boost one has, the larger the model.

My guess is that the model 200 is fine for 1.8t motors putting out as much as 700hp.


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

esoxlucios said:


> I think it might matter. In fact, the ProVent 200 is intended for applications up to 200L/min of flow, caused by blow by. Obviously, on a Caterpillar 16CM43, you're going to need one or maybe even two of the Provent 800 filters, which support up to 1,000L/min. each. The more displacement and/or boost one has, the larger the model.
> 
> My guess is that the model 200 is fine for 1.8t motors putting out as much as 700hp.


The 200 is of ample size and the bottleneck for the release will be at the head outlet.
Read this link for more info on CCV..
http://www.shophemi.com/images/media/p-2273-arrington_ccv_bible.pdf
Steve


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Where would one pickup a provent? I've searched online and found them for $140 or so.

I need one as of now and it looks like the best catch can go to go with except I'll be venting it to atmosphere.

http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2334


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

The Provent 100 will be a better option for your blowby, but 200 will be ok, just larger.
Steve


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## rodhot (Jan 4, 2012)

*old i see but*

i have a provent 200 for some time + want to install it on my 2001 TT 225Q + am unsure of the best way. pics are best but a good explanation will do. i am not looking to eliminate anything i may need for yearly state inspections. thanks in advance


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