# 2004 Phaeton won't start after sitting for 15 months , Wife's Ex boyfriend car ....



## rfattibene (Jul 31, 2013)

Hello , I'm new to thread . I have one of those crazy stories ... My wife's ex boy friend which we are great friends with has a 2004 Phaeton that my wife wants real bad . ..... The problem is that this car has been sitting for 15 months never being started in Connecticut with the bad weather and the whole 9..... 

I agreed that we would try it out and either sell it for him or keep it for my wife . Car was about an hour away and with high hopes we loaded the kids with a set of jumper cables and tools and headed out . 

When we got their I tried to jump start with post under hood and ground threaded rod. Immediately the engine started to turn over after is started for a second . It keep turning over but would not start. I had to disconnect cables for motor to stop turning over ... A few other things happened at same time 

1) key would not come out of ignition ( it has been stuck in their for 3 months ) 
2) could not turn steering wheel 
3) could not take out of park to put in neutral 
4) engine fault came up on screen . 
5) put driver side window down and would only come up 4 inches . 

I removed both Left and Right batteries and determined LH battery was no good . 

I purchased new LH battery and charged up RH batter which was good and headed back a week later to install thinking this may be problem . 

I installed batteries and the engine immediately started turning over again when I connected starting battery ( RH) . After a while it stopped turning over after connecting and disconnecting RH battery . 

At this point I called it quits after driving back and forth an hour 2 times already and decided to have it towed by AAA to my house where I could put on lift etc. 

AAA came but could not tow because it was too low to ground because air suspension had never inflated because it never started and it was stuck in park . I was able to touch the two positive posts under hood to get key out and somehow ( still not sure ) get car into neutral . AAA guy showed my trick of holding key FOB open doors and close doors for 2 minutes to reset computer . This seemed to work ... I also tried turning key to right and left 2 x and holding brake pedal for 20 seconds and that did not work . 

I eventually got car flat bedded home and now car computer will power up but will not start . On the dash board it displays a picture of a key ???? Key is still stuck in ignition and light on key fob lights up when you press button . 

I'm thinking maybe car is not recognizing key Fob ????

Any help would be greatly appreciated . 

Thanks
Rick 

I installed batteries


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Kessy is flooded and damaged. Located under the driver seat floor. Search the Table Of Content on how to get to it. The car has to be towed to dealer to have the Kessy programmed with all the keys you have... better to have two.

You need to unclog all the drain holes too to prevent this from happening again when it rain.

Should have covered the car to protect it from inclement weather.


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## Phat One (Jul 10, 2009)

you might need to put some new gas in the tank too


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## rfattibene (Jul 31, 2013)

*What's a kessy. ??*

Thanks for info. . Drivers floor was wet. 

I replaced battery in key fob and that didn't fix anything. 

I did get window back up,, and while sitting in car reading manual message came on dash " start engine now" I of course did what I was told ,,, but car still did not start...

A minute later engine started turning over but still did not start.

Im thinking the "immobolizer " IS preventing the car FROM starting 

I did put some FRESH gás in

THANKS 
Rick


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Hmm... If the key turns over the engine... then the Kessy is still working. Immobilizer is not at fault right now... if it was, you would never be able to turn over the engine at all.

At this point... you need to check the fuses for the fuel pumps. Check all the fuses anyway... low battery voltage causes fuses to be bad.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Rick,

In order to re-commission the car you may need to step back and take stock of the physical situation, then work in a logical way through the problems.

If the driver's foot-well is wet then it is extremely likely that the KESSY controller under the carpet and insulation is also wet. This is guaranteed to prevent the car from running properly. It also presents a risk that the starter motor could begin to turn at any time, whether you are in or near the car or not, and run until the relay burns out or a possible overheat limit switch cuts in. If this happens there will be smoke accompanied by a sinking feeling. :thumbdown:

The KESSY is the controller that is in charge of security, with a finger in the pies of the engine ECUs, the key recognition system, any keyless entry you may have fitted, running the starter motor, and holding a security key that allows the decryption of communications on the drivetrain CAN-bus.

I strongly suggest that, while you decide what to do next, you urgently disconnect the batteries (right first, then left, in that order to reduce another risk, namely that of triggering the pyrotechnic crash protection device on the right battery) to allow you to sleep at night. Then follow the photo advice starting at post #3 in this thread to lift the carpet and insulation to access and inspect the KESSY: Retrofitting Keyless Start to a North American Phaeton

Assuming the KESSY is wet then you may have some luck in thoroughly drying it and its connectors. However, if the power has been applied for more than an hour or so then electrolytic action may have eaten away some of the connector pins in the plugs or some printed track inside the KESSY.

In parallel with this would be the need to discover and correct the fault that allowed in the water. Please see the forum TOC for some very relevant places to look (open the TOC thread and use your browser 'find' function, usually Ctrl-F, to search for 'water').

Once the water issue is solved and the KESSY is known good (which is another story in itself) then it will be time to fully charge the batteries and start to re-commission the electronics, followed by the motor.

However, I wish you well in hopefully discovering that the KESSY is not an issue, so that you can immediately move on to that next phase.

Chris


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## rfattibene (Jul 31, 2013)

*Kessy investigation*

Hello Chris And others That are given GREAT advice 

I have always hás batterys disconnected When i,m not working on it,,,,só i don,t i burned anything out...

I have never Been able turn motor over with the Key . 

I Will looking át. Kessy next .

THANKS 
Rick


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Oh definitely Kessy dead... this is dealer only work... so call your friend up.


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## rfattibene (Jul 31, 2013)

*Kessy was in a swimming pool*

I was able to follow the instruction which were very helpful. The carpet in driver foot well was completely soaked......Still have to find out why.... Do the sunroofs usually leak ? 

The kessy was litery in a 1/4 inch of water ... The pins on connector all seemed good . I put kessy in a bag of rice and hopefully dry it out. Where would the drain be for this mini swimming pool...? There was 2 rubber drain plugs which I cleaned and removed but I did not see a drain ?? 

There is another black plastic box to left of kessy that was also wet ... Does any one know what that is ? 

Can I dry this out for a couple of days and put back and see what works or not ? 


Is it just me that thinks having a water sensative piece of electronics under the driver foot well is or a was a good idea? and literally putting it in a recessed area were any leak or anything liquid that gets inside the cabin will end up with no way out and surrounded by sponges ??? 



It seems that a super car would not have such a flaw ... 

Thanks for listening


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## doz (Jul 29, 2013)

Sun roof tubes is one item to check, the other is the bulkhead compartments at the back of the engine. There's a good "how to" on here


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Rick, 

Congratulation on the progress. The rubber bungs are not intended to be drain holes but have that effect when there's water sloshing around. Their function is for factory fixings to the overhead cranes. In general, once the leaks are fixed, the bungs should stay sealed, in my opinion. 

The black box next to the KESSY is full of thermal fuses, so should also be dried and checked. These relate to the front and rear door and seat controllers and the rear occupants' supplementary electric footwell heaters. 

How to prevent or correct water in the footwell is covered in the TOC (search for 'water in cabin footwell'). These are the topics: 


An improperly closed fuse box cover in the plenum chamber (this chamber is the void between the bulkhead and the firewall, behind the engine)
Blocked drains in the bottom of the plenum chamber
Disconnected or leaking a/c drain tubes
Disconnected or blocked sunroof drains, front and/or rear.
 
I hope that helps. 

Chris


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## rfattibene (Jul 31, 2013)

*Kessy no good*

Well with high hopes I took my Kessy out of the bag of rice and reinstalled in car ... .... I had left doors open and vacuumed out all standing water . I also put a fan on the wet carpet for a few hours to dry things out . It seemed to work pretty good . 

Same stuff ,, as soon as I put battery cable on RH battery motor started turning over and would not stop until I unlooked battery cable or his the 30 second mark in which I think it stops on it's own... 

Figuring I had nothing to loose at this point I opened up the Kessy case to find a badly rusted circuit board that I'm sure even if it did work would give problems later .. It showed signs of electric arcing and was still pretty wet.. an I took a few pictures and not sure how to post them in this forum 

About an hour later a local VW mechanic named Scott that I ran into a year ago at a tag sale came over to help out with a Passat I'm also trying to repair. He made a few phone calls and new Kessy from dealer was $ 765.00 and he knew a guy that could get us a discount for around $ 545. by getting some type of wholesale dealer price etc... Scott really knows his stuff on VW's ..I guess it will be about a week before it's here.... In the mean time I'm going to get another key from dealer and plan on getting car to dealer to be programed after we put new Kessy in... 

Please let me know if I'm missing something as being the next step ...as I'm new to the Phaeton 
world ..


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*2004 Phaeton won't start after sitting for 15 months , Wife's Ex boyfriend car*



rfattibene said:


> hits the 30 second mark in which I think it stops on it's own...


 
You may have fried your starter. Why did you let it crank for 30 seconds? Sheesh.


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

Didn't we have someone here on the board just a few months ago with a damaged Kessy whose starter motor ran out of control until it fried? 

May want to look up that post.


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

PowerDubs said:


> You may have fried your starter. Why did you let it crank for 30 seconds? Sheesh.


 Although very far from ideal... I wouldn't have thought that this duty should have fried the starter. Certainly won't improve it. My experience is that starters stand a lot more than 30s before becoming terminally distressed. However I share your horror - never let any high power device run uncontrolled! 

Of course, with a fried kessy - the starter may have already had lots and lots of abuse.... 

M


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

For this car... it is my understanding that the battery was disconnected long ago so there are no chance of burning out the starter or that the battery died way before the starter was triggered by a short. 

SO when this person went to work on it... he holed up the battery and it started to self start the car... and he realized that is not right so he disconnected whenever he was not working on the car. 

This said... the starter should be fine.


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## rfattibene (Jul 31, 2013)

*New Kessy installed , time to go to the dealer*

Hello All . 

First want to thank you all for hanging in this long 

Received new Kessy ( new replacement part number 3Do 909 137 Gx ) via New Florida to New Hampshire to Connecticut yesterday . With High hopes we installed and then connected batteries . 

This time no cranking of engine ..( Good ) and message came up on dash ( Parking light is switched on " when parking lights were switched off ??? ( not so good ) 

Steering wheel is still locked and also can't get car into park ( not good ) 

Key now comes out of ignition with no problem ( good ) 

Another message comes up on dash " system is learning " with picture of key and when try and turn key to start get message that " immobilizer is activated . ( I guess good as that is what is supposed to happen ... 

Scott my VW guy had is VAG computer and could program Kessy and Key Fobs but needed the SKU number for car .... He called his guy a dealer and they would absolutely not give out ...... Is their any other way to get SKU ????


So here's my next question : I only have the one key that was given to me with the car and I figured I would buy another key FOB off ebay so that when I have new kessy programed I would be able to program 2 keys Fobs ....and have another key cut ..... Problem is that when I go to ebay I can't seem to find correct key FOB ( Siemens 3D0-959-753 T 1705 , FCC ID KR55WK 45032 267 104 187 ) . and when I did find exact part number above it says that is won't work with a 2004 Phaeton ?  Guy on ebay had lots of helpful information and said among other things that the FOB has to be almost exact or you may have problems programing it . 

So my question is .... Am I wasting my time trying to save a few dollars by getting a used Key FOB off ebay which may not work at dealer because the Pheaton has so many bells and whistles with it's FOB .immobilizer . etc...????

Thanks
Rick


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Hesitate to stick my toe in this one... it is complex. But I think any appropriate VW key can be programmed by a dealer to work with Phaeton. I don't think it can be done anywhere else because there needs to be the right connexion back to VW in Germany via tinternet.

I imagine someone will correct me if wrong.

Thinking about it I have a spare Phaeton key.... not paired with any of my cars. PM me your address and I'll send it to you (if I can find it....)

Regards

M


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## rfattibene (Jul 31, 2013)

*Key Fob*

Hello M 

Very kind of you if you can find it . 

My address is : Rick Fattibene, 87 Church St. , East Hartford, Connecticut , 06108 , U.S.A. 

Let me know if I can pay you something for it ? or at least pay for the shipping cost.. I can send you a payment threw pay-pal if you send me your email address . 

Thanks
Rick 
203 775 4559


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Hi Rick- I'll look for it tomorrow, or Friday, and drop it in the post at the weekend.
Regards
M


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

It is possible (probably) to decode the SKC from one of the components, but I believe you would need special knowledge, a dedicated electronics toolset like this one and the experience to use it. This PDF contains examples of how the guys that need to read SKCs go about it.

A seriously 'good' vehicle locksmith will probably be able to help, but the fee would probably be more than that of simply tasking the dealer/VWHQ to reprogram the drivetrain CAN-bus security. And you may need an unmarked briefcase to put the guy's cash in. 

Chris


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## rfattibene (Jul 31, 2013)

*Holy SKU !!!!!*

Wow .. that's a little over my head to try and figure out . I sent it to Scott the VW guy to see if he has any luck . In the mean time I ordered a new Key and Fob from the dealer and should be in today . Mike n968412L from this Forum also graciously offered me an extra key so in case I loose one etc and he shipped from UK and that should be here in a few days . Thank you Mike !!!!

Scott may be able to get Sku and fix in my driveway or it will get towed to dealer and have all keys programed their .. and hopefully the W-12 will run again with out another problem caused by the car sitting .. ... 

Thanks Rick


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

rfattibene said:


> Mike n968412L from this Forum also graciously offered me an extra key so in case I loose one etc and he shipped from UK and that should be here in a few days . Thank you Mike !!!!


Can't take all the credit... it was bequeathed to me by Tony (Plastech). Minor miracle that it's not a wheel....


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## rfattibene (Jul 31, 2013)

*She LIVES !!!*

 Well we had the W-12 towed again :screwy: .. this time to the VW dealer in Danbury CT to get the new Kessy programed to the car and the new keys programed at the same time. 

It did not start out well ,,, got a call from the VW dealer first thing Monday morning saying that the car was locked up tight ( immobilizer ) and they could not get any of their computers to even recognize the car so they could get in neutral so they could move into a parking spot . They had to have the W-12 moved by a tow company AGAIN to a parking spot.. They were saying they were getting something like 70 fault codes ......

I spoke to mechanic who was very nice and explained the whole story ... He said the factory software was not even bringing up the VIN number ... I brought him the old Kessy module and left after telling the mechanic " Do the Best you Can " ... 

After over a week I got a call saying " it's running but it still has lots of problems " I was expecting a big bill but was pleasantly surprised when they only billed me for one hour of programing $ 110. US dollars . I guess the mechanic was finally able to connect to Germany and it was able to reprogram after a couple of attempts . Unfortunately the extra key that Mike ( Mike n968412L ) sent to me was not able to be used . The dealer told me and I'm not sure if this true or not said that they can not reprogram Pheaton keys and they can not remove the physical key and put another on it . He seemed to know what he was talking about and I did not want to take a chance of messing up the W-12 . 

The dealer was not able to test drive because of expired temporary plates so I had to take a chance and drive the W-12 on the highway for the first time in almost two years . She was a little rough at first but we went to an emissions station and it passed with no problem and got us home no problem. 

A couple of problems I'm hoping that will go away after we get it registered and put a few miles on the W-12. 

Left hand carriage battery keeps going dead . This is the new one I put in... I'm hoping because of some type of moisture that is causing a small electrical drain . Hopefully if I can dry car out this will go away .. But I'm a little worried because it goes dead in one day after being fully charged ......:facepalm:

Right rear tire says that tire is flat when it is not ??? First sensor showed low air and on way home ,,,, then said tire was flat 

Seems to be some sort of vibration tire problem . My friend that owed car said he thought it was alignment issue but had it aligned and problem did not go away before he parked for 15 months . I think we have a bad tire which I'm starting to look into . I think I will find a bad tire because previous owner said he had accidently put 70 PSI and drove for several hundred miles ... Normally that would not ruin a tire but something is defiantly not right ...

Next step is to finish getting car registered , clean and detail and drive to get bugs out . 

Thanks much for all the help .. Rick


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Very glad you're making some progress. Glad the key arrived. Surprised that they say it can't be reprogrammed. I suspect someone here will know if that is definitively true or not.

Keep us posted on progress. I think we're all willing this to succeed!

Regards

M


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

n968412L said:


> Surprised that they say it can't be reprogrammed.






I'm not surprised..seeing as they didn't know how to put a dead Phaeton manually into neutral. 



OP, glad your car is alive. And yes, kessy issues will throw a massive amount of codes. When Dennis's car was first scanned we just looked at the screen and thought whoa!


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## rfattibene (Jul 31, 2013)

*Wife's Ex boyfriends car still lives but some lingering issues ? Please help*

Well it's been a while since my last post and I thought I would try and work out some of the lingering problems with my wife's 2004 W-12 .... Well I guess it's safe to say that my relationship with my my wife's X is a little different ... We have been driving the W-12 on a more regular basis in the last couple of weeks because my wife's X boyfriends current girlfriend ........( are you following me ) had an accident and they needed a car because they are a one car family living in New Haven CT . We ended up loaning them our Toyota Prius because we still have not worked out the bugs in the W-12 that my wife's X still technically owns and we are making payments on .....??:laugh: and he can not drive it because of all the little things we have to do to keep it running ,,( we still disconnect battery whenever we are going to leave the car for more than a few hours because the left carriage battery goes dead ) carrying both key fobs in case battery goes dead and ignition holds key and we have to use other key to manually open trunk and jump start left hand carriage battery with an extra battery we carry in the trunk and of course the trick with turning the key fob to the left and right if one of the batteries is dead which does not work sometimes .... A little too much to explain to someone who is borrowing a car ... 

I have observed a couple of things and was hoping the forum could point me in the right direction. If I park the car and do not lock the doors and set alarm the small little red lights that illuminate the door handles stay on and battery goes dead ? If I lock the car and set the alarm with the key fog they go off and the battery won't go dead as fast .. Can someone tell me the relay that I can change to maybe fix this ??? 

Also when the carriage battery ( left ) goes dead,,,,,, turning the key to left and right to join batteries does not work any longer ?

One or two of the tire air pressure monitor sensors is not working properly ... where can I get a replacement ??? ebay or is it special VW part 

Thanks for all the help 
Rick


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Hello Rick,

Facinating saga 😊. I wonder if you had a scan done? If you did, please post it so it could be analyzed.

Regards,

Salah


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## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Stil have some very nice tiguan*



n968412L said:


> Can't take all the credit... it was bequeathed to me by Tony (Plastech). Minor miracle that it's not a wheel....


Stil have some very nice tiguan


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

There's a discussion somewhere about the right, left, right key procedure. It's actually to overcome a low voltage problem with the LH battery, not the RH starter battery. It allows the starter battery to also be used to power the electronics until the alternator kicks in. There also seems to be a mechanism that works in reverse to assist in starting when the RH battery is short of juice, but I believe that is fully automatic, you can hear the relay clunking when it happens.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Rick,

Just to recap: 

1. The car had a wet KESSY, you now have a brand new reprogrammed KESSY and the dealer has programmed two keys OK. Now the left battery goes flat.

2. One possible symptom is that the interior door handle LED marker light stays on if you close the door and haven't used the fob to set the immobiliser.

I just checked my car, and I confirm that the door handle LEDs stay on for a while after the interior lights have timed out, although I lost patience waiting to see exactly how long. So that's probably a red herring, since in any case they draw only a very small current.

Now we need a diagnostics scan, by which I mean "*we NEED a scan*"!  We also need to know that you fixed the source of the leak and that the new KESSY isn't wet.

The car is bursting with diagnostics software so it's time to ask it where it hurts. This must be done with a VCDS scanner and licensed cable in three stages, all with the engine running, each time saving the results as a text file on the laptop.

This must also all be done while the left battery is good, otherwise you will have a flurry of misleading DTCs. I suggest you charge both batteries for several hours before doing the scans. Each time the left battery is disconnected it will also generate some misleading DTCs.

== First, a scan to save the present data.
== Second, clear all the DTCs. Then drive the car, preferable for a few miles, but round the block will do.
== Third, re-scan the car. 
== Copy and paste the first and third set of results into a post and we will all breathe a sigh of relief, then start scratching our heads!

Regarding the TPMS and its sensors, a scan might say something useful. Otherwise, please look at the two recent TPMS threads or the ones in the TOC where there are comments on where to buy sensors at a much lower cost than the dealer. You can also use a VCDS to read the battery life and confirm if one or more are dying. There are other complications regarding wheel and tyre modifications, but let's pass stage 1 first.

Cheers,
Chris


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Paximus said:


> I just checked my car, and I confirm that the door handle LEDs stay on for a while after the interior lights have timed out, although I lost patience waiting to see exactly how long.


Michael confirmed once that it's 15 minutes then hibernation follows.


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

I meant, in my car for instance the visor light was constantly on even when the visor lid is shut and after the engine is shut. After 15 minutes of stand still in parking the light went off.


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## rfattibene (Jul 31, 2013)

*frustrated wet kessy , suspension ,*

Hello Chris 

I tried to fix the leaking cowl problem but I guess I did not fix it completely because my Kessy in the floor has gotten wet on two or more occasions and caused not starting problems until it dried .... I should probably try to fix drains again .... I had taken all of the covers off and could not find any drain holes where the pictures showed on this post ... I cleaned it the best I could but obviously I didn't fix it .... I guess I can read post again and try 

As far as the scan goes , I only have a simple OB scanner .... Would I have to go to the dealer for that ?? 

I have confirmed that that the red Led lights stay on for hours . The only way to get them to turn off is if I lock doors with key fob .

I also have a new problem ,,,,The suspension seems to not hold it's position any longer and we get a trouble light on the dash board saying can't be adjusted ?? 

Thanks
Rick


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