# Aftermarket speakers on factory RCD-510



## Vidgamer (May 15, 2011)

I'm replacing speakers in an '11 Golf TDI. (I think it's the RCD-510.) The stock system isn't bad, but a bit harsh at times, and seems like reaplacing the speakers might help. See this thread on a similar topic: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5181788-oem-sound-system&highlight=replace+speakers+bass

So, I replace the passenger door speaker (Polk Dxi 6500), and.... what happened to the bass? :banghead: It turns out that the stock speakers have a big boost in bass. This probably can be compensated by boosing the bass control. The other problem I have is that my replacement speakers are supposed to go down to 35hz, but they don't have much low output until maybe 50hz.  Is there active EQ in the head-unit affecting this? Or a case where they designed the stock system to have big boom, and putting in "correct" speakers sounds weak in comparison? Does the RCD-510 have a hidden EQ menu?

Meanwhile, the mids and highs are better with the replacement, but not as much as I would have expected. The new tweeter is a lot smoother. Well, I'm going to finish the driver door, and see what I can do with the head-unit settings. 

By the way, I found several DIY pages on door removal, and each one has its own tidbit of info. Things are easier with a complete understanding, but one page will not do it!


----------



## Vidgamer (May 15, 2011)

Got 'em installed, along with some Dynamat. The stock speakers are kind of "boomy", and the new speakers have very tight bass. Sounds good, and stock rear speakers fill in some of the bass. I would like to see if I could encourage a bit more bass out of the system, though, so I'm experimenting with the EQ. Quality is awesome for good ol' rock-and-roll, but I need that low bass for electronic/dance/etc. Tweeter is a bit loud, so I think I'll leave that neutral and boost the mids and bass and hope that can get me closer to some balance.


----------



## jimtunes (Mar 29, 2010)

I don't know about the RCD-510, but the RNS-510 has an extreme bass roll off below 40hz. The other issue you're running into here is the head units lack of power. My recommendation is a decent 4channel amp and a small sub. Bridge two channels of the amp to power the sub, the other two channels to the front. Power the rear speakers off the HU. If money isn't a huge concern you could go with a 5 or 6 channel amp and power the rear speakers as well.


----------



## Vidgamer (May 15, 2011)

I measured the frequencies with a sound level meter and test CD, and I can see the bass rolloff on the new speakers. (The stock speakers still have some rolloff, but not as bad.) I've read that there's a (hidden) service menu on the RNS-510, and something about being able to change the EQ; I have not found an equivalent setting on the RCD-510.

Is there a reason it rolls off at 40Hz? Is it to fight the boomy stock speakers?

I agree with you that an amp/sub combo would be the way to go, but that is additional $$ and installation, so I'm not too excited about that at the moment.

While of course you can run it out of power if you crank it high enough, I have to crank it really high to get to where it seems that strained. It actually is much higher than I can safely listen, so I don't think that I really need more power.... particularly when the low bass is filtered out.


----------



## crazymoforz (Jan 19, 2006)

most stock head units are internally equalized to make stock speakers sound better than what they really are. with the new polks you are probably under powering them as well. im not sure about the hidden menu, but i do know that some of the bose systems that came in the audi did have a hidden menu. if you are already installing new speakers, might as well add an interface and 5ch amp, 8" sub (but that is just me) GL!:thumbup:


----------



## Vidgamer (May 15, 2011)

Yeah, I'm sure adding an amp, sub, and perhaps an interface to back out some of the EQ would be much better, but with a much greater cost (in both time and money), so I'm a bit cool on that idea right now. I think I'd gain the most by a simple sub for some low bass.

I'm not sure that I need to amp the front speakers. They sound really good at reasonable volumes.


----------



## jimtunes (Mar 29, 2010)

Vidgamer said:


> I measured the frequencies with a sound level meter and test CD, and I can see the bass rolloff on the new speakers. (The stock speakers still have some rolloff, but not as bad.) I've read that there's a (hidden) service menu on the RNS-510, and something about being able to change the EQ; I have not found an equivalent setting on the RCD-510.
> 
> Is there a reason it rolls off at 40Hz? Is it to fight the boomy stock speakers?


The reason they roll of the bass is that the factory speakers, or nearly any speaker of that size has a natural roll off in the 40-60hz range. Why waste the amps power reproducing bass that the speakers are incapable of reproducing.

If you know of a secret menu with eq settings I'd love to know about it!!


----------



## Vidgamer (May 15, 2011)

I have more thoughts on the EQ. Consider that the factory speakers have more bass than the aftermarket replacements. I'm thinking that the stock speakers don't have much of a rolloff, that they're probably crazy in the low bass region and too loose, and they're trying to dampen it perhaps. Or they don't want to set off the airbag. Anyway, it's very inconvenient, as it makes the replacements seem a big weak in comparison. They sound good, just a bit thin.

When I mix the rears in, that brings a lot of the low bass back in. But it messes with the soundstage and quality a bit. So I've been thinking.... What might be cool is to use a low-pass crossover and make the rears bass-only (or at least mostly bass -- there'd still be some rear-fill with a -6db crossover, I would think). Not sure whether or not to leave the tweets connected.

Yeah, an amp would open up the possibilities. I don't have the energy for that right now! Hmm, I was really spoiled by my previous car; the factory amp wasn't big but was flexible, and there were more speakers to work with. And there didn't seem to be any EQ issues.


----------



## AsymmetricalDichotomy (Aug 13, 2010)

Take a look at the CD slot, the first button to the right is to load/unload cd's. Now look at the button with the tied quarter note, press it. :thumbup:

Also, are you still using the crossovers in the doors?


----------



## Vidgamer (May 15, 2011)

AsymmetricalDichotomy said:


> Take a look at the CD slot, the first button to the right is to load/unload cd's. Now look at the button with the tied quarter note, press it. :thumbup:


That gives me the non-hidden menu. What I want is the hidden menu that allows changing the overall EQ. I've seen multiple messages saying that the RNS has this, but only one message that claimed that the RCD-510 had it.



> Also, are you still using the crossovers in the doors?


What crossovers in the doors? The stock tweet has a cap. I didn't see anything else.


----------



## AsymmetricalDichotomy (Aug 13, 2010)

Vidgamer said:


> That gives me the non-hidden menu. What I want is the hidden menu that allows changing the overall EQ. I've seen multiple messages saying that the RNS has this, but only one message that claimed that the RCD-510 had it.


What do you mean change the overall EQ? That button gives you fader, balance, and treble, mid, and bass control. I don't believe the RCD-510 has a hidden menu and if it does, the public isn't aware of it. What does the RNS-510 hidden menu allow you to do that you want to try and achieve with the RCD?



Vidgamer said:


> What crossovers in the doors? The stock tweet has a cap. I didn't see anything else.


Down and to the left of the sub bass:

















Try bypassing those and then find out how it sounds. I'm willing to bet you'd like it more.


----------



## Vidgamer (May 15, 2011)

Is that the JSW? My Golf is different. Also, the woofers are in the front of the doors.

Supposedly, the RNS-510 menu lets you adjust it so that there is a flatter responseto the deck output. Stock, it may have its own internal EQ, making peaks and valleys in the signal in odd places, perhaps to compensate for the stock speakers. Or it could simply be a "loudness" type curve.


----------



## AsymmetricalDichotomy (Aug 13, 2010)

Vidgamer said:


> Is that the JSW? My Golf is different. Also, the woofers are in the front of the doors.
> 
> Supposedly, the RNS-510 menu lets you adjust it so that there is a flatter responseto the deck output. Stock, it may have its own internal EQ, making peaks and valleys in the signal in odd places, perhaps to compensate for the stock speakers. Or it could simply be a "loudness" type curve.


It's a Jetta. Your comment about the woofers being in the front doors doesn't make sense. You don't see the mid because it's attached to the door card. Have you taken off the door card yourself? So you can't tell me exactly what this menu in the RNS-510 does then? It's not sounding like you have much experience with audio. I'd do a lot of reading before doing this yourself or take it to a shop.


----------



## Vidgamer (May 15, 2011)

AsymmetricalDichotomy said:


> It's a Jetta. Your comment about the woofers being in the front doors doesn't make sense. You don't see the mid because it's attached to the door card. Have you taken off the door card yourself?


I had to in order to replace the speakers. I have an '11 Golf TDI. It doesn't have the mids -- it's a woofer/tweeter combo per door.



> So you can't tell me exactly what this menu in the RNS-510 does then? It's not sounding like you have much experience with audio. I'd do a lot of reading before doing this yourself or take it to a shop.


Google and see what the menu in RNS-510 does. There isn't a whole lot of information about it. On another board, I read that you can accomplish the same goal (of removing the factory EQ -- see "crazymoforz"'s message above) through VCDS, so if the former is not possible on the RCS-510, maybe the latter is the way to go.

I have some experience with audio, including replacing head units, adding amps, and even making custom analog circuits to tweak the sound.

Working with factory systems takes some extra planning and effort and has different challenges than if you just gutted everything and started over.


----------



## Vidgamer (May 15, 2011)

*Update...*

Listening to it for a while, the sound is good, once I tweaked the EQ a bit, but it still needs something. (Bass is thin, and increasing the bass control raises the mid-bass more and not the deep bass.) The stock rears have more bass, and a bit of rear-fill is helping the soundstage, so I have it faded slightly to the front, but bass is better from the rear. 

I tried VCDS, but there's really no adjustment to be made. Curious, as it definitely seems to have a steep bass cutoff, so even though it's set to "no sound system", it seems to be doing "something". 

I'm considering making some further adjustments. Thinking about passive filters. Considering an amp as well, but if there's a bass suck-out, then the amp will simply amplify the flawed signal and I'll be back where I started again (unless setting to "active speakers" disables the rolloff and using that signal for the amp). No wonder many of you just replace everything.


----------



## Vidgamer (May 15, 2011)

Actually, I'm beginning to think that adding a small sub would make it perfect. Has anyone tried an under seat sub? Otherwise, I may need to make the rear speakers the "sub".


----------

