# Mobil 1 0w-40 or 5w-40



## 08vwjettamk5 (Jan 3, 2012)

I have a 08 Jetta Wolfsburg Edition 2.0T and I am about to change the oil for the first time. I was wondering if I should use Mobil 1 0w-40, Castrol Edge synthetic 5w-40, or Castrol Edge 5w-30 advance synthetic, if I live in Florida?


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

The Mobil 040 and syntec 540 are 502 00 compliant. I don't think the 530 is unless it's GC. 


Sent from my iDevice


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

2.0 FSI is tough on oil. I'd use a HD 5w-40 for diesels, like Rotella. The M1 5w-40 you find may or may not be the good stuff. At walmart, the 4q M1 5w-40 jugs are the same price as the 5q of other Mobil 1. Does that make it the same as Delvac? Hard to say for sure.

Anyway, at WalMart you'll find Rotella "T6" 5w-40 or "T5" 10w-30 Semi syn there too. Lots of auto stores carry it now too.

I can recommend one other oil, Mobil 1 HIGH MILES oils. I'd try the 10w-30 and see how your consumption rate is. If you consume >1q/1500mi, step up the the M1 10w-40 HiMiles.

If you see extreme cold, M1 0w-40 is a better option, although M1 High-Miles 5w-30 is very much a cold-weather oil for Euro cars, and it comes in 5q jugs. 

There is also German Syntec 0w-30.

It's a tough engine to maintain. Try some (TCW-3) 2-cycle oil in the gas at 500:1 3oz/10g.

Use Top-Tier gas and don't f around with the air filter more than necessary. A used 2.0 FSI should have a borescope and intake cleaning asap.


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## Rico1 (Feb 8, 2001)

If it meets the manufacturer's spec for your car (e.g., VW 502.00 or whatever), by all means use it.

As for getting creative with engine oil choice, I never do, but YMMV. For expert opinion, I recommend the BITOG site (Bob Is The Oil Guy). They are the expertise.....some contributors are real tribologists (lubrication chemists) that work in the industry that makes motor oil and everything. I learned a lot there.


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Yawn.

So NOTHING other than VW 502 will work?

lol.


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## Chasman332 (Feb 27, 2011)

cleaning agents in fuel do not work on FSI motors


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

The owner's manual specifies TT fuel.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

I use Mobil 1 0w-40 in my 1.8t engine...Advance Auto parts has a special on mobil 1 oil...$32 for 5Qt. jug and filter, and i live in NJ


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Apexxx said:


> The owner's manual specifies TT fuel.


...and it does nothing to prevent the carbon build up on the intake valves that plague direct injection (only) engines


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

BsickPassat said:


> ...and it does nothing to prevent the carbon build up on the intake valves that plague direct injection (only) engines


It's almost like you ~blame~ me.

I think there are a lot of variables. Intake deposits dont' see to be a problem in Europe, where fuel quality is MUCH higher.

Valve lap during VVT action does induce fuel spray to be drawn past intake valves. That's the case in Nissan's crumbling cat issue. How would cat debris get drawn into the engine....?

I use TT fuel.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

cat deterioration isn't an issue.

fuel quality in europe doesn't affect the intake clogging issue.

on non-turbo fsi, it does allow to operate in the stratified mode

but with turbos, it's a single mode only

the other main difference is oils last longer due to the fuel, suitable for extended oci's

adding tcw-2 oil isn't going to keep your intake valves clean


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

Apexxx said:


> So NOTHING other than VW 502 will work?


Sure there are non VW 502's that will work (Red Line 5W-40, M1 TDT 5W-40, Renewable Lube xW-30/5W-40). But you should be clear to the OP that these do not meet VW specs if they are concerned about being covered under their warranty. And one or two random uoa's do not tell you much unless you're trying to spot a mechanical problem. You need to establish a trend to find an alternative to VW 502 oils (or even comparing 502 oils) and spend much more than $30.

08vw - Pass on the Castrol Edge 5w-30. As mentioned, it doesn't meet VW specs and will shear to a 20 weight the moment that you start the car.


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

You can recite from the old playbook or you can post some bad UOAs from 30 weight oil.

I have my data, where is yours?
















































The Edge 5w-30 being the best 1.8t UOA I ever saw, same w/Brad Penn 10w-30 in a FSI 2.0 T.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

If Brad Penn is so good, why don't you run it on your car?

Afraid it's going to destroy the catalytic converter? That's why it performs so well in terms of wear metals... it has a lot of ZDDP.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*uoa*



Apexxx said:


> You can recite from the old playbook or you can post some bad UOAs from 30 weight oil.
> 
> I have my data, where is yours?
> 
> ...


somebody else used oil analisis is just that, somebody elses. it's not you driving, it's not where you live and its not your car. one guys easy might be rougher than the next guys easy. uoa's are great for industrial and fleet use. just a toy for the rest of us.


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

Apexxx said:


> You can recite from the old playbook or you can post some bad UOAs from 30 weight oil.
> I have my data, where is yours?


This is supposed to be dealer Syntec 5W-40, but it's obviously not with the calcium and magnesium levels that look closer to a typical 5W-30. 

UOA by Oil Analyzers Inc.

Comments: Lubricant and filter change is suggested if not done at sampling time; Infared results indicate that NITRATION is at a SIGNIFICANT LEVEL; Aluminum is at a MODERATE LEVEL; Abrasives (silicon/dirt) are at a MINOR LEVEL; Flagged data has been rechecked and reconfirmed. 

Equipment make: Audi
Equipment model: 3.2L V6
Oil use interval: 5,591 miles
Oil capacity: 7 Qts.
Oil type & Grade: Castrol Syntec 5W-40
Make-up oil added: 0
Miles on unit: 10,760 
Air filter: OEM
Oil filter: OEM 
Overall severity of report = 3 abnormal

Iron 30
Chromium 0
Nickel 0
Aluminum 11
Copper 12
Lead 0
Tin 2
Cadmium 0
Silver 0 
Silicon 26
Sodium 61 
Potassium 3
Titanium 0 
Molybdenum 7
Antimony 3 
Manganese 6
Lithium 0 
Boron 14
Magnesium 18
Calcium 2096 
Barium 1
Phosphorus 690 
Zinc 811 

Fuel % 1.9%
Soot


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

gmikel said:


> somebody else used oil analisis is just that, somebody elses. it's not you driving, it's not where you live and its not your car. one guys easy might be rougher than the next guys easy. uoa's are great for industrial and fleet use. just a toy for the rest of us.


+1. I use uoa's for entertainment purposes only! If you _really_ want to get into uoa's, you'll pay more than $30. 



> ...Firstly, it is important to realize that you get what you pay for. The most common forms of UOA are limited in their scope. It is a case of if you pay more you get more. So my comments here relate primarily to the “simple” UOAs...
> 
> Secondly, it is easy to assume that by carrying out a UOA you will be able to determine how quickly the engine is wearing out. As well, if you change lubricant Brands you will be able to compare the wear metal uptake results and then make a balanced best lubricant choice to make your engine last longer.
> 
> ...


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis/


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Universal averages have nothing to do with it either. 

Funny how my wear rate on Edge 5w-30 was identical to Motul 5w-40. Just a fluke I guess because UOAs are meaningless...:facepalm:




















His metals are trending downward, predictably and proportionally. 

My metals are X% lower than average, a winter run, with fuel dilution and it was essentially a 20 weight. The oil itself cost me zero. 


I'm still waiting for the BIG ANSWER from the BIG EXPERTS of how a bad oil can produce a good UOA.


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Such high sodium makes me first think of a coolant leak. A few brands of dino use Na as an additive, GTX and Mobil Clean, but idk if it's quite that much. 

Was the oil tested for coolant? I know 3.2s were blowing water pumps for a while. Maybe the repair left some residual coolant or failed completely.

w/o more real info I can't comment other than to say that's not Syntec, 5w-40 especially. iirc, 502 Syntec = Rotella T + 1800 mg/kg of organo-metallics.

Older Audi V6s usually wear very moderately and CAN use any oil, even S4s do well on decent fluids.


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

Not wanting to go too far OT, but the Syntec 5W-40 voa's that I've seen had much lower Ca and higher Mg (typical of most 40 weights). 

My Forester produced good uoa's but the uoa's gave no indication of a problem before I blew my turbo. 

-Dennis


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*uoa's*



Dennis M said:


> Not wanting to go too far OT, but the Syntec 5W-40 voa's that I've seen had much lower Ca and higher Mg (typical of most 40 weights).
> 
> My Forester produced good uoa's but the uoa's gave no indication of a problem before I blew my turbo.
> 
> -Dennis


they can't predict the future, personally i'don't think they show much about the past


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## Broke Status (Feb 12, 2011)

Best oil I have seen for the 2.0t that had little oil consumptions and came out clean every 5000 KM was Lubro Moly... http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Jetta/Engine/513/12 FOR FSI and http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Jetta/Engine/513/13 FOR TSI take your pick by far one of the best oils out there and test proven in extreme hot and cold weather to have little oil consumption at my shop.


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## meboice (Mar 24, 2012)

I wouldn't necessarily agree with you here. A UOA provides valuable information, far and above baseless opinions and anecdotal fanny dyno experience. How a UOA is used to determine future oil selection, as you point out, can be a little suspect. I looked at over 100 UOAs and paid for two of my own before deciding to use Mobil 1 5W40 TDT in my wifes 2.0 Passat. Redline and Amsoil, to name two faired a bit better in some areas but relatively this oil performs well in this motor in my wifes driving venue.

So a UOA is an important tool to use but you have to look at many UOAs with the same motor driven in a similar environment in order to determine an oil's relative effectiveness...all of this is better than no information at all.




gmikel said:


> somebody else used oil analisis is just that, somebody elses. it's not you driving, it's not where you live and its not your car. one guys easy might be rougher than the next guys easy. uoa's are great for industrial and fleet use. just a toy for the rest of us.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*dutchess county*



meboice said:


> I wouldn't necessarily agree with you here. A UOA provides valuable information, far and above baseless opinions and anecdotal fanny dyno experience. How a UOA is used to determine future oil selection, as you point out, can be a little suspect. I looked at over 100 UOAs and paid for two of my own before deciding to use Mobil 1 5W40 TDT in my wifes 2.0 Passat. Redline and Amsoil, to name two faired a bit better in some areas but relatively this oil performs well in this motor in my wifes driving venue.
> 
> So a UOA is an important tool to use but you have to look at many UOAs with the same motor driven in a similar environment in order to determine an oil's relative effectiveness...all of this is better than no information at all.


red hook, we all can have our own opinion, no problem. some just think the others have no right to an opinion.


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Apexxx said:


> I'm still waiting for the BIG ANSWER from the BIG EXPERTS of how a bad oil can produce a good UOA.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*bad expert*



Apexxx said:


>


nothing is as complicated as you make it.


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## mylesp (Jul 7, 2005)

It almost seems a little radical to send out oil samples? I believe proper oil change intervals and a proper spec oil weather its 502. spec or 505 will minimize wear. I had a customer come in with 2.7 s4 and had over 300k and never had an issue ever with his engine. All he uses is pennzoil platinum 5/30 I highly doubt he sent off oil samples. He just sticks to his owners manual recommendations.  

Besides, all it takes is one neglected oil change to cause some ring damage.  Doesnt matter what oil your using.


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

2.7tt is a very easy engine to lube. 

Pennzoil Platinum isn't an approved oil, but as I contend it's a great oil in the correct visc.

I don't know why you think a $15 UOA is extraordinary..? 



















There are numerous instances where OE oil recommendations caused engine failures. Most people are aware of this. You might want to refine your argument.

Is there any way on Earth that my 5k changes on modern ACEA A5 5w-30 oil like Pennzoil Platinum from WalMart are better than 10k changes of dealer Syntec 5w-40 that's locked-in to their old 1998 VW 502 formula. Maybe?










502 didn't work too well here either...










How about German Syntec 0w-30? Factory-Fill in 1.8t, but n/a at dealerships. Should I just pour my last case down the drain?


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## mylesp (Jul 7, 2005)

That is correct! platinum 5w30 is not approved however that doesnt mean it doesnt work. 5w30 eruo spec IS approved but it is a differnt spec. Fact of the matter is clean oil will keep your engine happy.  

As for the 0w40 or 5w40 the oil should be the same visc for operating temperature since its a 40 weight oil. The 0 or 5 is your cold start visc and if your in a warm climate either shouldnt be an issue. It gets to minus 35-40 degrees C here and I have not had any issues with oil flow in the mornings. As long as it meets manufactures spec you will be fine.


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Just like the other 5w-30 OE oils, in Europe they are a different formula. Thicker, to meet the ACEA A3 spec (VW 502) with the required HT/HS of >3.5cP at +150c. Our USA 5w-30 is thinner and lower HT/HS of 2.9cP. 

You'll find Valvoline SynPower is another example, where it actually was presented on VoA's 502 "approved" list, although the US version is NOT the correct product, rather referring to the Euro version.

Excessive changing of the oil can be especially bad on a DI engine. The lighter fractions boil off of fresh oil and leave varnish-y sludge.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*say what*



Apexxx said:


> Just like the other 5w-30 OE oils, in Europe they are a different formula. Thicker, to meet the ACEA A3 spec (VW 502) with the required HT/HS of >3.5cP at +150c. Our USA 5w-30 is thinner and lower HT/HS of 2.9cP.
> 
> You'll find Valvoline SynPower is another example, where it actually was presented on VoA's 502 "approved" list, although the US version is NOT the correct product, rather referring to the Euro version.
> 
> Excessive changing of the oil can be especially bad on a DI engine. The lighter fractions boil off of fresh oil and leave varnish-y sludge.


i've currently got 2 v-dubs and neither uses a drop of oil to 4k. then i use about .5 qt per thousand, not bad. how's that for boiling off? don't get it. sorry hard to believe that changing your oil is a bad thing.

it's really not that complicated.


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Do a little research and get back.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*r u kidding*



Apexxx said:


> Do a little research and get back.


one car has 150k, the other 100k, the dipstick tells me when to add oil, not somebody else's experience.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Apexxx said:


> Just like the other 5w-30 OE oils, in Europe they are a different formula. Thicker, to meet the ACEA A3 spec (VW 502) with the required HT/HS of >3.5cP at +150c. Our USA 5w-30 is thinner and lower HT/HS of 2.9cP.
> 
> You'll find Valvoline SynPower is another example, where it actually was presented on VoA's 502 "approved" list, although the US version is NOT the correct product, rather referring to the Euro version.
> 
> Excessive changing of the oil can be especially bad on a DI engine. The lighter fractions boil off of fresh oil and leave varnish-y sludge.


Fuel dilution regardless of OCI is bad.

Second...varnishy sludge isn't the big issue with DI. It's the intake valve area that gets sludged up, however, it's not caused by excessively short OCI's..... and TCW-3 additives won't help either.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*he just doesn't get it*



BsickPassat said:


> Fuel dilution regardless of OCI is bad.
> 
> Second...varnishy sludge isn't the big issue with DI. It's the intake valve area that gets sludged up, however, it's not caused by excessively short OCI's..... and TCW-3 additives won't help either.


if you a have a direct injection engine (EVERYONE'S GOT PCV), does not matter what brand oil or engine manufacturer, the pcv gasses are going to leave deposits on the intake tract, really simple. but?

can we get a graph or chart to dispute this audisquirt?


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*na*



brownchicken/browncow said:


> It seems like a "dipstick" is telling you what oil to use! :laugh:
> 
> He's a triple x rated ape.....he must be sexy!


just having fun he's been so many other things (all banned) in the past, he's just someone to annoy. good earl is good earl


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

:screwy:


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*amsoil*



Apexxx said:


> :screwy:


 did they ever finish second in one of there infomercials? take everything from them with a grain of salt. after all aren't they the ones who claimed to have lifetime oil a while back, just change the filter they said.


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

I guess ASTM D-5800 and ASTM D-97 have no meaning to you. 

:facepalm: 

http://www.astm.org/Standards/D5800.htm 
Standard Test Method for Evaporation Loss of Lubricating Oils by the Noack Method 

http://www.astm.org/Standards/D97.htm 
Standard Test Method for Pour Point of Petroleum Products 

The AMSoil chart is based on PUBLISHED specs from the respective companies. 

Talk about flapping your jaw without the least bit of a clue about the subject! 

Simply pathetic.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*i question the source*



Apexxx said:


> I guess ASTM D-5800 and ASTM D-97 have no meaning to you.
> 
> :facepalm:
> 
> ...


 i stand by what i said. i simply don't cosider an amsoil chart nor you to be conclusive.


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Pathetic troll, to be exact.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*pompus ars*



Apexxx said:


> Pathetic troll, to be exact.


nothing is as complicated as you'd like. amsoil charts are rubish if for no other reason than the source, sorry.


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## meboice (Mar 24, 2012)

In fairly basic terms, why is a short oil change interval a bad idea? I understand that a component of a given oil might be more volatile when new...but at some level wouldn't that also indicate that the oil isn't all that great to begin with.


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

A good reason would be the longevity of the friction modifiers. They wear out.

Miles alone isn't a good metric. Typical trip length and climate could be cause for early drains. Some conditions, the engine never gets fully warmed up, disallowing the self-cleaning process that comes with extended drives.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Apexxx said:


> :screwy:


so... why aren't you using Amsoil 10w30 since it has superior NOACK Volatility (as well as Pour Point).


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

I'm using SynPower.


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## meboice (Mar 24, 2012)

I've been using mobil 1 5W40 TDT based on two UOAs I paid for and a couple dozen that I read used in the same motor.

I used Redline a few times, but it's much harder to find. The car in question here is my wife's 2008 2.0 Passat. She drives about 3 miles to work every day...so the car never really escapes the warm-up cycle in winter. I on the other hand take delivery of a new TDi Golf in about two hours


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

That's the ideal situation to start w/a thinner oil. 30 weight is just a hair thinner at operating temp, but LOTS thinner at cold start.










1/2 as thick as M1 5w-40 in cold. M1 0w-40 is about the same as German Syntec 0w-30.

Chugging around on cool/warm oil, 5w-40 is WAY thick.










Take the 50-55C range, 5w-30 is 45 cSt, 5w-40 is twice as thick, 80+cSt. That's a serious drag on an engine which need only 9 to 10 cSt or less for proper lube at operating temp.

Graph your own oils...
http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html


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## meboice (Mar 24, 2012)

I thought I replied...but...so 5W40 TDT is too thick? I can see that in winter but why wouldn't the extra thickness be good for lubrication during hot summer months? I am also keenly aware that a direct injection motor can dilute oil fairly quickly...here I refer to the 2.0 gas motor.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*oil temp*

eperating temperature is pretty constant at 195 f year round as long as the cooling system workd as intended. vw's have an oil to water heat exchanger that is at operating temp year round. so unless you believe the oil in the pan is cooled significantly by outside air, the oil temp is fairly constant by season. if you still have the sound deadner on your car the air going by the oilpan passed throught the radiator first anyway. imo it's not a big issue


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*5w-40*

that's what vw calls for. the 1.8t has forged pistons that have a relatively wide clearance and a poor rod/stroke ratio, the 5w-40 does make for a quieter engine because of those factors. you won't hurt it with a good 5w-30. between my 3 vw's i've got close to 400k miles, iv'e used total, fuchs, valvoline and mobile 502 oils in 0w/5w-40 and fuchs in 5w-30, don't see any change in consumption, cold start or gas mileage between them. use what works for you.


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Yep. 5w-40 in summer and a lighter oil in winter, 0w-40, 5w-30 or 0w-30 as I mentioned. Most cars I service run 10w-30 in summer, 5w-40 is just to make the spec guys happy. Seriously, if you have consumption or elevated oil temps or serious mods, 5w-40 is the way to go, except in the circumstances I mentioned. 

Short trips, arctic cold...a thin oil is a big plus. for more than one or two reasons. Just put a bottle of 5w-40 in the freezer next to 5w-30 and see how thick they get. 

fwiw, 0w-30 was factory-fill in my new 2002 1.8t...


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*funny*



Apexxx said:


> Yep. 5w-40 in summer and a lighter oil, 0w-40, 5w-30 or 0w-30 as I mentioned.
> 
> Short trips, arctic cold...a thin oil is a big plus. Just put a bottle of 5w-40 in the freezer next to 5w-30 and see how thick they get.
> 
> fwiw, 0w-30 was factory-fill in my new 2002 1.8t...


 my 02' gls 1.8t jetta called for 5w-40 and said 5w-30 was only to be used to top off or when 5w-40 was not available. guess we're on different planets. my 03 passat 1.8 says the same thing.


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

I'm on the planet where I don't need a manual to explain the obvious. 

The manual wording is tied to CAFE standards, VoA's inclusive service scheme, the desire to extend intervals, apparent consumption rate-customer issues-damaged engines from low oil-warranty claims. 

Sure, for 10k changes, a 5w-40 is more ideal where fuel dilution is an issue, also where customers drive w/o checking the oil for long periods...I already said I agree with the recommendation. I'm just showing how its not obligatory to run 5w-40...at all. 


This is a recent visc chart from a modern European Porsche manual. In USA the mfg MUST specify in the manual the exact same oil that was used in the CAFE test. It'd be easy for VW to make the same recommendation as I did, 5w-30 in cold and 5w-40 in hot. They just can't or won't.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Apexxx said:


> I'm on the planet where I don't need a manual to explain the obvious.
> 
> The manual wording is tied to CAFE standards, VoA's inclusive service scheme, the desire to extend intervals, apparent consumption rate-customer issues-damaged engines from low oil-warranty claims.
> 
> ...


 The manual wording was based on the older VW502.00 standard... back to around the Euro 2 or Euro 3 emissions standards in Europe. 

As the Euro emissions standards evolve, so do the oil specs. 

BTW... my 02 Golf manual says the same thing as gmikel about oil multi-viscosities.


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## meboice (Mar 24, 2012)

Sorry to ask so many questions...so M1 5W40 TDT should be fine in summer and perhaps M1 0W40 in winter?


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

meboice said:


> Sorry to ask so many questions...so M1 5W40 TDT should be fine in summer and perhaps M1 0W40 in winter?


 TDT is fine year-round 

likewise Shell Rotella T6 (which is what I use)


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*thank for the backup*



BsickPassat said:


> The manual wording was based on the older VW502.00 standard... back to around the Euro 2 or Euro 3 emissions standards in Europe.
> 
> As the Euro emissions standards evolve, so do the oil specs.
> 
> BTW... my 02 Golf manual says the same thing as gmikel about oil multi-viscosities.


 :thumbup:


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*wifes passat*



BsickPassat said:


> TDT is fine year-round
> 
> likewise Shell Rotella T6 (which is what I use)


 just used the rotella t6 on your recommendation.


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## meboice (Mar 24, 2012)

Is Shell Rotella T6 easy to find?


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*absolutely*



meboice said:


> Is Shell Rotella T6 easy to find?


 and reasonable


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

meboice said:


> Is Shell Rotella T6 easy to find?


 yes... at wal-mart


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## meboice (Mar 24, 2012)

Thanks! 

...not that I am able to read a UOA fluently - I have to re-learn a lot of oil jargon every time I look at one, but is Rotella T6 a good detergent oil as well? M1 seems to be very good in this regard...but is getting very pricey...close to Redline


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

BsickPassat said:


> (5w-40) TDT is fine year-round


 Not really, that's why 0w- oils were invented. It may be partly the reason all the new VW spec oils are 5w-30. MPG is also a factor. 

It's gets to -10f here in winter, -23c. At that temp TDT is about 12,000cSt, Edge 5w-30 is more like 3000cSt. 

Tell that to your valvetrain and turbo oiling systems, how 12,000cSt is a smart choice when the engine needs only 10cSt running viscosity. Mega-thick oil also does wonders for your MPG during the first 10 miles of warm-up. :facepalm: 

TDT and Rotella are not highly friction-modified either, goodbye highway mpg. :wave: 

It's like sucking a milkshake thru a straw.:what: 

Everyone's an expert.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Apexxx said:


> Not really, that's why 0w- oils were invented. It may be partly the reason all the new VW spec oils are 5w-30. MPG is also a factor.
> 
> It's gets to -10f here in winter, -23c. At that temp TDT is about 12,000cSt, Edge 5w-30 is more like 3000cSt.
> 
> ...


 
Just keep believing in your own Kool Aid.


----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*say what*



Apexxx said:


> Not really, that's why 0w- oils were invented. It may be partly the reason all the new VW spec oils are 5w-30. MPG is also a factor.
> 
> It's gets to -10f here in winter, -23c. At that temp TDT is about 12,000cSt, Edge 5w-30 is more like 3000cSt.
> 
> ...


 earlier in this thread you were pushing 10w-xx oils, now it's 0w-xx. you just like to think you're smarter than the rest. NOT!!!


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

gmikel said:


> earlier in this thread you were pushing 10w-xx oils, now it's 0w-xx. you just like to think you're smarter than the rest. NOT!!!


 ...and Amsoil for its superior NOACK Volatility... 

and...he's from the Scranton, PA area.... which rarely gets that cold in the winter time.... that he claims... and his excel chart with no proof, because it's more than likely selectively plagarized from another source...


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Solid posting there guys! :thumbup: 

Anyone who came away from reading my posts thinking I suggested 10w- oils for winter truly is a bonehead. :banghead: At least it's still thinner than 5w-40.


----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*last time it was -10f*

you weren't even born in 1961 sonny. i see that you service cars from your post. my guess was correct, you must be the night tech a walmart.


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Haha, we're not open overnight. 

Can't you get anything right?


----------



## meboice (Mar 24, 2012)

...a 10W40 is heavier than a 5W40? Although my question is general, I cannot help but think that the thickness of one similar grade oil isn't necessarily the same as another...?


----------



## cmosentine (Jun 3, 2008)

Broke Status said:


> Best oil I have seen for the 2.0t that had little oil consumptions and came out clean every 5000 KM was Lubro Moly... http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Jetta/Engine/513/12 FOR FSI and http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Jetta/Engine/513/13 FOR TSI take your pick by far one of the best oils out there and test proven in extreme hot and cold weather to have little oil consumption at my shop.


 I second LM, but any 502 oil will work. You can get it at NAPA here in Michigan, but it goes by the name Liqui-Moly. But I caution that there are several types of LM, but only one is fully synthetic. They also changed the fully synthetic to 0w-40 (from 5w-40). When I first purchased my 08 WE, I used M1 0w-40. I found I was using about 1/2 quart per 5000 miles. LM cut that down to about 1/4 quart per 5000 miles.


----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*once in a while*



Apexxx said:


> Haha, we're not open overnight.
> 
> Can't you get anything right?


 so you work 3 to 11 so what


----------



## meboice (Mar 24, 2012)

I've been using M1 5W40 TDT for 5 years and I change the oil approximately every 3,000 miles. I've never had to top off the oil...Though I find that this car is rare in this regard. ...but, 3,000 miles doesn't really give the oil a chance to burn-off. We were very careful about engine break-in too. 



cmosentine said:


> I second LM, but any 502 oil will work. You can get it at NAPA here in Michigan, but it goes by the name Liqui-Moly. But I caution that there are several types of LM, but only one is fully synthetic. They also changed the fully synthetic to 0w-40 (from 5w-40). When I first purchased my 08 WE, I used M1 0w-40. I found I was using about 1/2 quart per 5000 miles. LM cut that down to about 1/4 quart per 5000 miles.


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

meboice said:


> ...a 10W40 is heavier than a 5W40? Although my question is general, I cannot help but think that the thickness of one similar grade oil isn't necessarily the same as another...?


 Depends on the temp. At operating temp they are the same. This temp is where the visc is measured for the labeled grade, in this case a 40 weight, the visc at +100c is a range from 12.5cSt to near 15cSt. The W-rating is simply a cold cranking test at progressively colder temps (-20f, -25f, etc) and is separately determined. 

http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html 

A 5w-40 is thinner at all temps below +100c than a 10w-40 or 15w-40. That doesn't mean a 5w-40 is thinner than a 10w-30 though. Every visc and every product needs to be analyzed specifically to compare their viscs. 










As you can see, 5w-40 isn't drastically better than a 10w-40 in cold, esp when compared to a 5w-30.


----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*if it works for you*



meboice said:


> I've been using M1 5W40 TDT for 5 years and I change the oil approximately every 3,000 miles. I've never had to top off the oil...Though I find that this car is rare in this regard. ...but, 3,000 miles doesn't really give the oil a chance to burn-off. We were very careful about engine break-in too.


 keep useing it, you're fine. it's no where near as complicated as apeshirt makes it.


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Too complicated for some people.


----------



## camjr (Nov 20, 2005)

Motor oil threads on Vortex make me giggle. They always start off with someone asking an innocent question (In this case, Mobil 1 0w-40 or 5w-40), and devolve into arguments similar to gay vs. straight, Coke vs. Pepsi, carnivore vs. vegan, or 1911 vs. Glock.

Great fun for those of us that simply change our oil at the specified interval with VW 502 spec oil.

Please, by all means, carry on...


----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

camjr said:


> Motor oil threads on Vortex make me giggle. They always start off with someone asking an innocent question (In this case, Mobil 1 0w-40 or 5w-40), and devolve into arguments similar to gay vs. straight, Coke vs. Pepsi, carnivore vs. vegan, or 1911 vs. Glock.
> 
> Great fun for those of us that simply change our oil at the specified interval with VW 502 spec oil.
> 
> Please, by all means, carry on...


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Well, it is a technical forum afterall.


----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*it's not that complicated.*



Apexxx said:


> Well, it is a technical forum afterall.


use an approved earl and all will be fine.


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

yeah, because vag never ever had an oil related issue. 

no way either could there ever be a better oil than oem oil.

see, if you have zero clue, oem oil is a good way to go.

the rest of us are here for more information, and most everyone has heard about VW 502, believe it or not. if that's all you have to offer, you should maybe find a new hobby, like beanie babies. it suits your comprehension level.


----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*you would not know what to do*

you would be lost if you could not tell us how smart you think you are and how stupid we are. somebody needs a new hobby for sure.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

vag had an oil sludge problem in the longitudinal 1.8t. however they addressed it with the larger oil filter ( not for more filtration but rather to increase capacity) and requiring synthetic oil. not perfect for sure, but i've got an 03 passat 1.8 with 150000 mikes on it without any problems using whats recommended. i've got a couple of friends with well over 240000 miles and no problems. no uoa's either, just regular service.


----------



## camjr (Nov 20, 2005)

camjr said:


> Motor oil threads on Vortex make me giggle. They always start off with someone asking an innocent question (In this case, Mobil 1 0w-40 or 5w-40), and devolve into arguments similar to gay vs. straight, Coke vs. Pepsi, carnivore vs. vegan, or 1911 vs. Glock.
> 
> Great fun for those of us that simply change our oil at the specified interval with VW 502 spec oil.
> 
> Please, by all means, carry on...


opcorn: Point proven...


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

The best part, 'changing at the specified interval'. Uhh, is that 10k or 5k, like when the 2.0t was first introduced, before inclusive service? Are we going to take into account 'severe operating conditions' or not?

Wait, maybe just get a UOA? Oh, I did.

I see a lot of gums flapping, nothing but frothy poop coming out.


----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*you must be looking in the mirror*



Apexxx said:


> The best part, 'changing at the specified interval'. Uhh, is that 10k or 5k, like when the 2.0t was first introduced, before inclusive service? Are we going to take into account 'severe operating conditions' or not?
> 
> Wait, maybe just get a UOA? Oh, I did.
> 
> I see a lot of gums flapping, nothing but frothy poop coming out.


:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Apexxx said:


> The best part, 'changing at the specified interval'. Uhh, is that 10k or 5k, like when the 2.0t was first introduced, before inclusive service? Are we going to take into account 'severe operating conditions' or not?
> 
> Wait, maybe just get a UOA? Oh, I did.
> 
> I see a lot of gums flapping, nothing but frothy poop coming out.


2.0T's with VW502.00 oil have always been specified at 10k OCI.

VW502.00 is the severe operating conditions oil.


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Umm, nope. 1st change at 5k prior to inclusive service.


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Apexxx said:


> Umm, nope. 1st change at 5k prior to inclusive service.




Vw = 5k, then another 5k, and then every 10k thereafter
Audi = 5k, then every 10k thereafter

from the 2008 manual, prior to the CareFREE service:










... after the initial oil change(s)... 10k OCI's, just as I stated earlier.


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

BsickPassat said:


> Vw = 5k, then another 5k, and then every 10k thereafter
> Audi = 5k, then every 10k thereafter
> 
> from the 2008 manual, prior to the CareFREE service:
> ...



oh?




BsickPassat said:


> 2.0T's with VW502.00 oil have always been specified at 10k OCI.
> 
> VW502.00 is the severe operating conditions oil.


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

if it was 5k oci's, then the service intervals would be 5k, 10k, 15k, etc


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

And your point is....?


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

OMG!
Ok, in a country where speed limit is in some extreme cases 75 miles per hour there are people so obsessed with oils that my question is: do you have a life?
This obsession would be justifiable in Germany where cars can use their fullpotential and where you need best tires, best brakes and best oils.
So, to make life easier: Use Castrol 0W30 or M1 0W40. 
Why using Rotella? Why usinf TDT? What is a point? Price? UOA? 
If VW says that M1 0W40 is good for the car or GC or whatever oil meets 502.00, why reinventing the wheel?


----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

gmikel said:


> use an approved earl and all will be fine.



I have no objections to 502 oil, but we do have better alternatives.

502 fanbois should bear in mind how poorly it faired in:

1.8t










3.2 VR6











2.0 FSI











4.2 FSI 











and 3.0 AVK.











I guess it's easier to theorize than to actually examine facts.

Otherwise, just follow the manual and don't think for yourself.


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

I do not have a clue what you talking about!
I used in my 1.8T GC all the time and engine was clean like new!!!


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Ok, stick your head in the sand.


----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*nice pictures with no info*



Apexxx said:


> I have no objections to 502 oil, but we do have better alternatives.
> 
> 502 fanbois should bear in mind how poorly it faired in:
> 
> ...


 how many miles on the engine and was the oil even changed. their is nothing to validate that oil was a problem, more likely it was a lack of timely maintainance.


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

So, you're saying that, without a full explanation, you're lost. 

Sorry, some people here will get left behind.


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Apexxx said:


> Ok, stick your head in the sand.


 I am coming from Europe. In Europe all 5W40 or 5W30 or 0W30 meet 502.00. 
For sludge problems I heard first time when i moved to the US! My friend actually screwed up his A4 bcs he was thinking that $19.99 oil changes are OK with these cars. In EU $19,99 oil change does not exists! You go with synthetics and you pay for them, trust me. So there was no sludge issues! 
Now, I always used GC, changed oil every 7,000 miles, and engine was like a brend new inside! 
Now, you are showing us pictures that means what? 
Oil in those engines could be any oil, it could be 502.00 that was changed like every 40,000 miles. 
Means nothing! 
I have never heard from friends who owned 1.8T and used 502.00 that they had ANY problems!


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Europe has different, more highly refined, fuels, for starters. 

GC is actually a 503.01 oil, which is a different beast. It's the long-life spec, that exceeds 502. 

If you range over to the FSI Forums, you'll see failure after failure on spec oil. People using HD or high zink oils had essentially no failures. 

Blaming owner neglect on 1.8t sludge, and "all" the other instances I cited is outright arrogant. 

Remember, VAG speced a larger capacity filter to solve the sludging oil problem, which has nothing to do with oil quality issues. People who did 5k changes over the "official" 10k changes were well-served. You can't BS me, I was there in 2002 when Audi went to 10k. I had a new B6 1.8t, so **** it. 

VAG also updated the 502 spec in 2004, with sludge resistance as a priority. 










Welcome to reality. 

If you're happy with your fanboi oil, that's ~totally awesome~ (pun intended)


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Don't forget people, spec oil is the ONLY way to go... 










Surely an error. Dozens of samples must be wrong.  

Everyone wants to play with fire, but no one likes getting burned.:wave:


----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*there are no facts just pictures*



gmikel said:


> how many miles on the engine and was the oil even changed. their is nothing to validate that oil was a problem, more likely it was a lack of timely maintainance.


 whatever:screwy::screwy:


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Well, there is first problem of the fact that Synthetic oils in the US are by far Group III oils (except few like GC). They are mainly lower quality than European oils (which you said are not having bragging rights). 
Also, not all European countries have low sulphur fuels. Go to Ukraine, Serbia, Macedonia, Bulgaria etc and you will see content of sulphur in the fuels. 
I was changing GC every 7,000 not 5,000 as VW said, and no issues at all. 
I agree with you that SOME 502.00 oils could be a problem, but by far, big majority is not!


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

BZZT, they're all Gruppe III now. 

PAO base oil? 

What is this, 2003?


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Off course you have in EU Group III oils. But, by the EU laws you cannot advertise them as fully synthetic oils! 
Only PAO and Ester are advertised as fully synthetic and for example almost ALL Castrol or Mobil1 oils for Europe are true synthetics same as other manufacturers. 
Driving conditions there require more stable oils then here.


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Not anymore. 

Are we done yet?


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Why should we be done? 
Since when Not anymore? 
As far as I know, EU laws clearly states that fully sythetic oils are from sythetic base. Other sythetics have to have different lables (syn technology, HC etc). 
We are not done, maybe you get passport and get a tour of other parts of planet!


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

lol, someplace like the Deep South? No thanks! :facepalm:


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

I call BS on the 2.0T cam follower. It happens regardless of which oil you use. The cam follower wear is due to a poor design, and will happen even if you use HDEO oils. 

Even if you use Apexxx's recommended ACEA A5 5w30 oils, it will still happen. 

The tappet style cam follower is where you want to have a higher HTHS. 

VW502.00/505.00/505.01 was updated in 2004, primarily for Euro IV emissions regulation, which some additional performance improvements, not only sludge. 

the 1.8T sludged engine? Post the link to the thread... there are plenty of people whom have used 502.00 in the longitudinal engine without sludging.


----------



## Anony00GT (Mar 6, 2002)

BsickPassat said:


> I call BS on the 2.0T cam follower. It happens regardless of which oil you use. The cam follower wear is due to a poor design, and will happen even if you use HDEO oils.
> 
> Even if you use Apexxx's recommended ACEA A5 5w30 oils, it will still happen.
> 
> ...


 Yes, the cam follower is a design flaw, nothing to do with oil, anyone who works on VW even a little bit knows that. 

I call BS on the AVK cam journal as well. That's oil starvation, not incorrect oil. Another problem I've personally seen before. 

The 1.8T in his pics, well, we don't know what the history really was. Can we at least get a definitive and verifiable source for the pic? Surely we aren't to believe that it was VW-approved oil changed at the proper interval simply because Apexxx says so. That would be failure to think for ourselves, "sticking our head in the sand" so to speak, right Apexxx?  

Unlike him, most of us actually work on cars and have actually seen these failures firsthand. He's just reading internet oil analysis and jumping to conclusions that have nothing to do with real-world experience.


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Apexxx said:


> lol, someplace like the Deep South? No thanks! :facepalm:


 Well, as far as I know you do not need passport for deepsouth, but as charts and other stuuf, that "info" you can find on internet


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

So, the clown-consensus is that VW 502 oils never fail at prescribed 10k intervals? 

I find that a hilarious notion. :laugh:


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Here's another good one, "lifetime" fluids for autotrans. 

Keep thumping those owners manuals against your head guys, it leaves me LOTS of clean family entertainment.


----------



## Anony00GT (Mar 6, 2002)

Apexxx said:


> Here's another good one, "lifetime" fluids for autotrans.
> 
> Keep thumping those owners manuals against your head guys, it leaves me LOTS of clean family entertainment.


 Here's one for you. Just from my point of view. 

Service Manual + Experience = 100% success rate. 

I'm sure you'll find a reason I'm wrong, but at a 100% success rate, I'm sticking to what works. 

Hey, since you're so knowledgeable, why don't you try answering some questions in the other technical forums, eh? You know, questions that don't relate to the chemical composition of lube


----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*i've got one*



BsickPassat said:


> I call BS on the 2.0T cam follower. It happens regardless of which oil you use. The cam follower wear is due to a poor design, and will happen even if you use HDEO oils.
> 
> Even if you use Apexxx's recommended ACEA A5 5w30 oils, it will still happen.
> 
> ...


 150000 plus mile no problems. until last oil change always 502 oils w/ 4500mi oci. got friends with another 100000 miles and no problems. 

as for the 2.0t cam follower, try to envision a lifter working at 3x the rate of a valve tappet.


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

gmikel said:


> 150000 plus mile no problems. until last oil change always 502 oils w/ 4500mi oci. got friends with another 100000 miles and no problems.
> 
> as for the 2.0t cam follower, try to envision a lifter working at 3x the rate of a valve tappet.


 the 2.0t with the tappet follower is a 2 lobe profile 

the 2.0 tsi is a 3 lobe profile plus roller follower


----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*bpy*



BsickPassat said:


> the 2.0t with the tappet follower is a 2 lobe profile
> 
> the 2.0 tsi is a 3 lobe profile plus roller follower


 looks like 3 lobes to me, cam 1/2 crank, idk. vag diagrams show 2 lobes, but they have 3 in real life.


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Apexxx said:


> So, the clown-consensus is that VW 502 oils never fail at prescribed 10k intervals?
> 
> I find that a hilarious notion. :laugh:


 Now I am starting to think you are still not old enough for driving license!


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Anony00GT said:


> Service Manual + Experience = 100% success rate.
> 
> I'm sure you'll find a reason I'm wrong, but at a 100% success rate, I'm sticking to what works.


 Man, you have a rich fantasy life! 

If I had no clue, no confidence in my own knowledge, I guess I would use the manual as a guideline. It is afterall written for old ladies and other fartknockers. 

lmk HOW a 5w-40 is the "100%" choice when it's farkin' cold. 










lmk HOW plain A3/5 synth is a ~really~ bad idea... 










Hmm...? 

















































Hahahah, you guys make it so easy.  

TELL US HOW you come to your technical conclusions, not how you ~feel~, like a little girl.


----------



## Anony00GT (Mar 6, 2002)

Apexxx said:


> Man, you have a rich fantasy life!
> 
> If I had no clue, no confidence in my own knowledge, I guess I would use the manual as a guideline. It is afterall written for old ladies and other fartknockers.
> 
> ...


 
Please go into ANY other technical forum on this site, or anywhere else, and tell people that the service manual (not owners manual) is a mere "guideline". Have you ever read a service manual? You probably think "service manual" and "owners manual" are the same thing, right? Because that's clearly what's implied by your above response. 

* In fact, why don't you step up to my earlier challenge, try answering questions in other technical forums?* Heck, someone posted right here in this forum not too long ago asking for an oil pressure spec, and I noticed you steered clean and clear away from that one. Are you afraid of proving how little about automobiles you really know? 

Now, quit the name-calling, and man up to the above challenge. Or shut up and go away. 

I bet you're going to reply to this, and it's going to include at least one instance of calling me a name and/or insinuating that i'm completely retarded. Grow up


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Anony00GT said:


> Please go into ANY other technical forum on this site, or anywhere else, and tell people that the service manual (not owners manual) is a mere "guideline". Have you ever read a service manual? You probably think "service manual" and "owners manual" are the same thing, right?
> 
> * In fact, why don't you step up to my earlier challenge, try answering questions in other technical forums?* Heck, someone posted right here in this forum not too long ago asking for an oil pressure spec, and I noticed you steered clean and clear away from that one. Are you afraid of proving how little about automobiles you really know?
> 
> ...


 That guy still thinks that Shell and Pennzoil are two different companies and he claims he knows oil's!


----------



## Anony00GT (Mar 6, 2002)

edyvw said:


> That guy still thinks that Shell and Pennzoil are two different companies and he claims he knows oil's!


 Yeah...I don't think he's ever touched a car beyond the steering wheel and maybe gearshift. I bet he knows ProLine oil real well though  

Oh great. Now he's going to come back in here and call us both names. I'm scared! :laugh:


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

So, you have nothing? Big surprise, lol. 

Hahahaha! 

Maybe you should check my pic poster before running your mouth(s). 










After 15 Audis, I don't even bother counting the VWs. :thumbup: 




























oops. 




















I found gmikel's pics though... 








 

Some Altezza taillights would set that shiz off RIGHT! 


lol.


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

wow!!! so you actually live in the deep south, working for APR. 

I never knew the deep south winters got down to the single digits


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

But I do admire his communication skills. Obvious example what is wrng with our elementary and high school system!


----------



## Anony00GT (Mar 6, 2002)

edyvw said:


> But I do admire his communication skills. Obvious example what is wrng with our elementary and high school system!


 Why educate people when you can make fun of them instead? 

Took like 3 threads and a million times asking, but it looks like we finally got some form of credentials from the guy. I'm sure most of his technical information is correct, but it could be presented in a more friendly form for sure. 




Apexxx said:


> Suck it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 And he's an ugly bastid too


----------



## Anony00GT (Mar 6, 2002)

Apexxx said:


> lmk HOW a 5w-40 is the "100%" choice when it's farkin' cold.


 Now that we've established some credibility for you, let me answer this question. 

In short, I my area doesn't see "farkin cold" temps. 

It never does, and to my knowledge never has, dropped to -30*C (~-22*F) anywhere near where I live and work. On a cold winter day, it might hit 0*F (~-17*C), but even then temps that cold aren't that common even in the dead of winter. The two coldest months are December and January, and they average 30-32*F (-1.1-0*C). Given that information, 5w-40 is fine, not far at all from the other oils on this chart. Of course, if I was in Alaska, I wouldn't be using 5w-40, but I'm not in Alaska. Also, I'd think anyone living in consistent temps that cold would use a block warmer as well.


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

New Jersey low temp record	–34f –37c :snowcool: 

Around 0f is -20c, making the 5w-40 10,000cSt, over 3x thicker than 5w-30. 

I'm not sure what you intend to gain with tar-like oil. 

Like I said many times, toss a q of each grade in the freezer (if your BF allows it) and see for yourself the difference.


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

If all this fuss is over lube for a 2.Slo, I will be mad.


----------



## Anony00GT (Mar 6, 2002)

Apexxx said:


> New Jersey low temp record	–34f –37c :snowcool:
> 
> Around 0f is -20c, making the 5w-40 10,000cSt, over 3x thicker than 5w-30.
> 
> ...


 I said average, not record. Average winter temps are closer to 0*C. Sure there are colder days, but I'm generalizing here. Exactly where and when was -34*F recorded? Oh yeah, River Vale back in 1904 :screwy: 

I think I'll try the freezer trick, just for kicks. You've at least got my curiosity going. I believe a block warmer is a necessity in areas where temps regularly sink into negative numbers F, to avoid this tar-like condition you speak of. 




Apexxx said:


> If all this fuss is over lube for a 2.Slo, I will be mad.


 If you think this is about my own car (the POS in my sig), you're sadly mistaken and proves that you know about as much about me as I do about you


----------



## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)




----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*are you obsessed with oil?*



Apexxx said:


>


 and estranged from reality?:screwy:


----------



## Anony00GT (Mar 6, 2002)

gmikel said:


> and estranged from reality?:screwy:


 I thought that was a pretty cool vid actually.


----------



## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*it is*



Anony00GT said:


> I thought that was a pretty cool vid actually.


 but the fact remains


----------



## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

Apexxx said:


> New Jersey low temp record	–34f –37c :snowcool:
> 
> Around 0f is -20c, making the 5w-40 10,000cSt, over 3x thicker than 5w-30.
> 
> ...


This is just silly.

I've used 10W-40 conventional here in NJ down into the single digits F in a '99 Outback and never felt it was too thick. In fact, the owner's manual allows it down to -4F. 

The ASTM D-5293 Cold Cranking Simulator test is performed at -30C on 5W's, and at -25C on 10W's, so that's good enough for me. http://www.pqiamerica.com/coldcrank.htm 
Running 0W-40 in the Q5 right now, but only because it was on sale and not because I planned to encounter -35C temps. 

The viscosity of 5W-40 is not 10,000 cst's at 0F. Using -18C, the viscosity of Syntec 5W-40 is 
is around 2,800 cSt's at 0F. Syntec 5W-30 is 2,286 cSt's at the same temperature. 

http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/b...ts/downloads/p,q/Edge_BLACK_PDS_Sept_2011.pdf

-Dennis


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

I get 5600cSt for 5w-40 and 3000cSt for 5w-30 at 0f. Twice as thick. Go below that, it's 3x as thick....just like I said.


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

Apexxx said:


> I get 5600cSt for 5w-40 and 3000cSt for 5w-30 at 0f. Twice as thick. Go below that, it's 3x as thick....just like I said.



Nope, try again.
Syntec 5W-30 is 10.7 cSt's at 100C and 62.64 at 40C. 5W-40 is 13.9 at 100C and 82.6 at 100C. At -18C, the 5W-30 is 2285.5 and the 5W-40 is 2798.8.

Feel free to take a screen shot and post it here. 

-Dennis


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*is this ever gonna die*

does anyone even remember how it started? i'm as guilty as the rest, but it's time to let go.


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Get off the pipe.


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## chopppa (May 23, 2012)

sooooooo..... should I get Mobile 1 0w40 or 5w40 in HOT southern california weather? 

its on sale for $1.99 a quart so I am going to STOCK up


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

5w-40 unless gas mpg is a big deal, and if you don't take excessively short trips. 

$2 for M1 0w-40 is a steal though, and it's easily the better oil for extended drains. 

A bit depends on the engine, but yeah. 

I actually prefer Mobil 1 High Miles 10w-30 to either.


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## chopppa (May 23, 2012)

Apexxx said:


> 5w-40 unless gas mpg is a big deal, and if you don't take excessively short trips.
> 
> $2 got M1 0w-40 is a steal though, and it's easily the better oil for extended drains.
> 
> ...


 
2012 GTI, I have a 60 miles daily commute, averaging about 500 miles a week. this is my commuter so maybe better mpg would be better, I plan on doing changes every 5k or so.. thanks for the helpp


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

chopppa said:


> 2012 GTI, I have a 60 miles daily commute, averaging about 500 miles a week. this is my commuter so maybe better mpg would be better, I plan on doing changes every 5k or so.. thanks for the helpp


 GC 0W30 or M1 0W40, I would go with that! 
I bought CC 2010 and put M1 for 5,500 miles. I am satisfied. No gasoline odor in oil like with Castrol SLX that I found in engine when I bought car. Color stayed normal. 
Now I used GC 0W30 to see how it is going to behave. 
What I noticed is lower noise, smoother engine. 
That does not mean M1 is worse oil than GC. 
Going with both of these oils is fine and safe!


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*use what works for you*



edyvw said:


> GC 0W30 or M1 0W40, I would go with that!
> I bought CC 2010 and put M1 for 5,500 miles. I am satisfied. No gasoline odor in oil like with Castrol SLX that I found in engine when I bought car. Color stayed normal.
> Now I used GC 0W30 to see how it is going to behave.
> What I noticed is lower noise, smoother engine.
> ...


 most any quality oil will be fine. if you're under waranty use what they tell you in the manual.. if you don't push your oil change interval it'll work out fine. just read the disclaimers, they get forgotten to often. 

dirty looking oil with reasonable mileage only means the detergent is working ( i.e., keeping the contaminents in suspension).


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

gmikel said:


> most any quality oil will be fine. if you're under waranty use what they tell you in the manual.. if you don't push your oil change interval it'll work out fine. just read the disclaimers, they get forgotten to often.
> 
> dirty looking oil with reasonable mileage only means the detergent is working ( i.e., keeping the contaminents in suspension).


 Trust me I understand what is dirty looking oil. This SLX was something else, like oil in diesel engine. 
GC and M1 0W40 are both 502.00. Bothe meet warranty requirements.


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

I have a '10 GTI, out of warranty. Can I use M1 0W40 that I have or should I go buy some 5W40? The owners manual clearly states that 0W40 should only be used for topping up (0.5 liter max) when 5W40 is not available. Why isn't 0W40 approved for this engine?


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## 2006_A3_2.0T (Jan 11, 2013)

I use Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w30 with a can of Ceratec additive, wow best oil ever used. 
That oil for winter and for summer I will use LM High Tech Leifcthuc 5w40


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

atikovi said:


> I have a '10 GTI, out of warranty. Can I use M1 0W40 that I have or should I go buy some 5W40? The owners manual clearly states that 0W40 should only be used for topping up (0.5 liter max) when 5W40 is not available. Why isn't 0W40 approved for this engine?


 Yes, you can use Mobil1 0W-40. Doesn't your car spec VW 502.00? 

From Mobil1.com: 
Your vehicle has a specific recommendation. 

The company that manufactures your vehicle recommends this Mobil 1 product, or has a special requirement. 

Current Vehicle: 
Year: 2010 
Make: Volkswagen 
Model: GTI 
Engine Type: 4cyl. 2.0Liter Turbocharged 

Mobil 1 0W-40 

Specifications and Approvals 
Mobil 1 0W-40 meets or exceeds the requirements of: 
API SN, SM, SL, SJ 
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4 
Nissan GT-R 

Mobil 1 0W-40 has the following builder approvals: 
MB-Approval 229.3 
MB-Approval 229.5 
BMW LONGLIFE OIL 01 
VW 502 00/505 00 
PORSCHE A40 

-Dennis


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

Dennis M said:


> Yes, you can use Mobil1 0W-40. Doesn't your car spec VW 502.00?


 Yes it specs that, but not the 0W-40. Owners manual says to use 0W-40 when 5W-40 isn't available only to top up with and then not more than 0.5L worth.


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

atikovi said:


> Yes it specs that, but not the 0W-40. Owners manual says to use 0W-40 when 5W-40 isn't available only to top up with and then not more than 0.5L worth.


 That's odd since the 2.0T Audi's don't have that language that I'm aware of. 

How long is your typical interval? If you're worried about it, just change it every 5k miles or do a used oil analysis with a TBN to see if you can run the oil longer. The older API SM M1 0W-40 would sometimes shear to a 30 grade, but the new API SN oil holds up much better. What is the spec of the one that you have. The MB 229.5 is probably the toughest spec out there to meet so you can run this oil with confidence, regardless of the grade, IMO. 

-Dennis


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