# APR Presents: Audi TT RS 2.5 TFSI RSC Exhaust System & Stage II ECU Upgrade!



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Product Page 

APR is pleased to announce RSC™ Technology is now available for the Audi 2.5 TFSI TT RS in our Performance Exhaust System. APR's RSC™ Exhaust System is capable of delivering gains of 99 HP @ 4,800 RPM and 113 FT-LBS @ 4,500 RPM when combined with APR's Stage II ECU Upgrade and is fully compatible with APR's upcoming Stage III Turbocharger System. 










RSC™, Reflective Sound Cancellation, allows for maximum exhaust gas flow while completely eliminating unwanted in-cabin sound resonance known as "drone". RSC™ incorporates innovative technologies developed in conjunction with NASA. With limited use of packing materials and no baffles, RSC™ allows for a completely straight and free-flowing exhaust path throughout the RSC™ mufflers. Reflective Cancellation bounces the undesirable sound waves into each other to attenuate the wave and completely eliminate the low-frequency tones that create drone. Each RSC™ muffler is tuned to eliminate specific, undesirable sound frequencies allowing only the engine's true and desirable exhaust note to be heard and improving performance. 

*Turboback Exhaust System* 









APR's RSC™ Turboback Exhaust System replaces the entire factory exhaust with a High-Flow, Reflective-Sound-Canceling, mandrel-bent, stainless-steel design with minimal bends and no restrictive baffling or valving to impede exhaust flow. Beginning as a 4" v-band system, the exhaust smoothly transitions into a single 3" design with a high flow catalytic converter. Unwanted exhaust notes are cancelled out through the first RSC™ chamber before transitioning into a dual 2.5" design. Drone is completely removed as the exhaust travels through the rear RSC™ chambers before exiting the vehicle. You're left with the true sound of the Audi turbocharged 5-cylinder-engine and thanks to the RSC™'s free-flowing design, power and torque are greatly increased. The APR Turboback Exhaust System is a combination of the APR Downpipe and Catback Exhaust System, however each part may be purchased separately for use with your factory components. 










*Downpipe Exhaust System* 









APR's design specifications and manufacturing requirements resulted in a 4" v-band turbo outlet with a smooth transition into a 3" mandrel-bent stainless-steel design. The APR RSC™ Downpipe features a high-flow 200-cell metal matrix catalyst and connects seamlessly with the APR RSC™ or factory catback exhaust system. When connecting to the factory catback exhaust system, the downpipe splits from a 3" design to a dual 2.5" system after the secondary catalysts. Alternatively, when used as a full APR RSC™ Turboback Exhaust System, the downpipe remains as a 3" system and connects directly to the APR RSC™ Catback Exhaust. In either setup, no cutting or welding is necessary as the system is a direct fit and includes all necessary components for connecting to either the factory catback or APR RSC™ Catback. 










*Catback Exhaust System* 









APR's RSC™ Catback Exhaust begins as a 3" design and splits to a dual 2.5" design for each exhaust outlet. Smooth and unrestricted transitions at the splitter ensure exhaust velocity is not hindered. The mandrel-bent stainless-steel design is free of restrictions thanks to APR's RSC™ Technology found in each chamber. Three straight-through RSC™ chambers are specifically tuned to remove undesirable sound frequencies, "drone", from the cabin resulting in only the engine's true and desirable exhaust note. Expect quiet operation at low speeds and idle with nearly no in-cabin noise and experience the classic Audi 5-cylinder turbocharged exhaust note the second you mash the accelerator. The exhaust note is controlled by your right foot and does not require valving to restrict exhaust flow in an effort to reduce noise. The Catback Exhaust System does not alter any factory emissions components so it's emissions-testing friendly. 

*Photos* 

               

Each configuration is constructed from low-carbon stainless-steel with high-precision jewelry-grade TIG welding and high-precision CNC MIG-welded components. High-Strength Torca exhaust clamps ensure leak-proof operation through the unrestricted design and a lifetime warranty ensures years of worry-free operation. To better understand the components included with each system, please click the Exhaust Overview buttons below. 

*APR Stage II ECU Upgrade* 

The APR TT RS Turboback and Downpipe exhaust system is fully compatible with APR's Stage II ECU Upgrade. Stage II is a free upgrade for existing APR Stage I ECU Customers and is designed to maximize power output from the 2.5 TFSI Engine when coupled with the free flowing exhaust system. With lower exhaust gas temperature and unrestricted exhaust flow, APR's engineers are able to safely extract more power while working within the OEM and Tier 1 Supplier specifications for engine component stress tolerances and performance specifications. Turbocharger lag is reduced resulting in quicker acceleration every time you press the throttle! Click the tabs below to see the gains! 





































*Video* 





 
*Application Guide* 

APR's accepting PRE-ORDERS at this time. Exhaust Systems are anticipated to ship the week of August 20th and will be shipped on a first come first serve basis. 

The exhaust systems are on sale pricing till August 3rd. 

*Full Turboback Exhaust System* 
Audi TT RS 2.5 TFSI Quattro 6MT & S-Tronic 
*PART* - FE100048 
*MRSP* - $2,659.00 
*SALE* - $2,393.10 

*Downpipe Exhaust System* 
Audi TT RS 2.5 TFSI Quattro 6MT & S-Tronic 
Audi RS3 2.5 TFSI Quattro 6MT & S-Tronic 
*PART* - CD100028 
*MSRP* - $824.00 
*SALE* - $741.60 

*Catback Exhaust System* 
Audi TT RS 2.5 TFSI Quattro 6MT & S-Tronic 
*PART* - CB100057 
*MRSP* - $1,849.00 
*SALE* - $1,664.10 

*Where To Buy* 

You may visit the APR TT RS Product Page or order the system locally through an APR Authorized Dealer. For more information please call APR at (334) 502-5181 or visit our Facebook Page. 

Thank you and Go APR!


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## bsmack (Oct 16, 2008)

No requirement for a FMIC for stage 2...interesting!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

bsmack said:


> No requirement for a FMIC for stage 2...interesting!


 Nope!


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## michalborz (May 14, 2004)

can I just get down pipe and use exciting sports exhaust and get stage 2 tune ?


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## as350 (Nov 8, 2011)

Nice!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

michalborz said:


> can I just get down pipe and use exciting sports exhaust and get stage 2 tune ?


 Yes


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## Nitek13TT (Jul 24, 2012)

Hello Arin! couple of questions for you. 

430HP 464TQ - is that flywheel or at the tires? 

Didnt AWE dyno the entire setup (FMIC + cat delete + full exhaust + giac) at 350whp on a mustang dyno? 

Just trying to figure out who to go with when my RS arrives. 

I Would love to see a side by side dyno comparison same day same dyno, both APR and AWE stage 2. Also interesting is no FMIC with APR. Is AWE suggesting extra parts for something not needed for stage 2? 

Thanks in advance!


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

> can I just get down pipe and use exciting sports exhaust and get stage 2 tune ?





[email protected] said:


> Yes


 Awesome! I ordered with the sport exhaust and was just going to do the stage 1 tune. Guess I might go for stage 2 now.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Nitek13TT said:


> Hello Arin! couple of questions for you.
> 
> 430HP 464TQ - is that flywheel or at the tires?


 Crank. Here's what we measured at the dyno (note, the gains are the same at the crank or wheels): 













> Didnt AWE dyno the entire setup (FMIC + cat delete + full exhaust + giac) at 350whp on a mustang dyno? Is AWE suggesting extra parts for something not needed for stage 2?


 I haven't followed them, so I do not know.


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## Nitek13TT (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks for the fast reply Arin. 

The gains are looking great! 

More videos of drive away / drive by under load would be great if you all have time. 

Sound from the cameras POV specifically.


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

How is it that the Dyno is showing 375 HP stock? I thought it was rated at 360. The 
Price for the new exhaust looks fair. Mine for the 3.2 was a bit more.


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## Nitek13TT (Jul 24, 2012)

sentari said:


> How is it that the Dyno is showing 375 HP stock? I thought it was rated at 360. QUOTE]
> 
> I believe thats what they calculated as stock crank HP based off wheel hp numbers.


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

No doubt I like these products, if I had an RS i'd be in line. But it appears one really needs to ignore those (peak) numbers and look at the other posted numbers that show the difference from stock. The web site has all that information. 

It's time APR gave us a few snap shots of the graphs they are getting while building the stage III kit. Funny how for about 75K this car could destroy any p-car.  




Nitek13TT said:


> sentari said:
> 
> 
> > How is it that the Dyno is showing 375 HP stock? I thought it was rated at 360. QUOTE]
> ...


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Amazing quality stuff! If I wasn't holding out for stage 3, I'd be all over this downpipe setup.


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## YYC Dubber (Jun 23, 2011)

*APR Downpipe connection point to OEM exhaust*

Great work once again, Arin! 

Curious to know where exactly the downpipe connects to the OEM system? 

From the diagram it appears I connects AFTER the secondary cat pipes... 

(meaning no needs for cat delete pipes if that's correct....)


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

YYC Dubber said:


> Great work once again, Arin!
> 
> Curious to know where exactly the downpipe connects to the OEM system?
> 
> ...


 That seems to be the case. The primary cat is now located where the secondary cats had been previously. I wonder if the exhaust comes with extensions for the O2 sensor cables?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

YYC Dubber said:


> Great work once again, Arin!
> 
> Curious to know where exactly the downpipe connects to the OEM system?
> 
> ...


 If you buy the downpipe only, it will connect AFTER the secondary cats, so it totally deletes all of the original catalytic converts in favor of our single cat setup.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> If you buy the downpipe only, it will connect AFTER the secondary cats, so it totally deletes all of the original catalytic converts in favor of our single cat setup.


 Hey Arin, 

Will the cat-back RSC exhaust be *required* for the stage 3? (I'm not sure why it would be, but I thought I'd ask).


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Hey Arin,
> 
> Will the cat-back RSC exhaust be *required* for the stage 3? (I'm not sure why it would be, but I thought I'd ask).


 Nope


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

Marty said:


> Amazing quality stuff! If I wasn't holding out for stage 3, I'd be all over this downpipe setup.


 Ditto..... 


Id have already put in my preorder for this though.... but having over $3000 stolen from you is a kick in the nuts. :banghead:


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

JohnLZ7W said:


> That seems to be the case. The primary cat is now located where the secondary cats had been previously. I wonder if the exhaust comes with extensions for the O2 sensor cables?


 Are you sure that O2 extension cables are needed?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Are you sure that O2 extension cables are needed?


 They aren't


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> They aren't


 :thumbup: 

Did anyone think after this long a detail like that would be missed? 

NEW RSC EXHAUST* 

*(Customers must buy or fabricate 02 extensions lol)


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## YYC Dubber (Jun 23, 2011)

Awesome news, Arin. Nice to know you were able to get rid of those 3 restrictive cats and replace em all with a nice high flow design. 

Was reading about your Golf R /Goodrich project car on FB, was wondering if you would consider producing a short throw shifter for the TTRS? 


I would buy one in a heartbeat due to the quality of work you put into all your products.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

YYC Dubber said:


> Awesome news, Arin. Nice to know you were able to get rid of those 3 restrictive cats and replace em all with a nice high flow design.
> 
> Was reading about your Golf R /Goodrich project car on FB, was wondering if you would consider producing a short throw shifter for the TTRS?
> 
> ...


 I will speak with VWR to see if this is on their list. They have a range of TTRS products coming soon!


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I will speak with VWR to see if this is on their list. They have a range of TTRS products coming soon!


 wooooo


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## YYC Dubber (Jun 23, 2011)

With the RS using an all new 0A65 Gearbox, none of the old short shifters that worked on the other quattro 6mt cars work on it. (TT/TTS/Golf R) 


Different variations of the 0A6 Gearbox were available in Europe in the following:•Volkswagen T5 Commercial carrier van. 
•Volkswagen Tiguan 4-Motion manual (LMX gearbox code) 

Hoping you guys can have a look at it and possibly modify the existing design to make it easier to develop bring to market.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> *Video*


 For some reason i don't like the sound of it. 
It's sounds to.....artificial, can't explain what's wrong with it, but i don't like it.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Almost sounds like they were a gear too high all the way through the video, they seem to be lugging the engine


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## ThatVdub (May 28, 2010)

Stalking the remote possibility of owning a TTRS, but if I were to, this exhaust would not be 
something I would add to it. Arin, anyway to like make something similar to the MK4 R32 
res and muffler, possibly yeilding a more growl than fffrrrrrrruuhhhh sound...


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Sounds good to me. From the video, it doesn't sound like it will be one of those deep droning "boy racer" sounding exhausts. Though I have a feeling that, like for all of these exhausts, it's really hard to tell what they'll sound / feel like without hearing one in person. 

Anybody have one of these on pre-order?


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

From a sound perspective, there is no replacement for displacement. Well, that's true for a lot o fthings.. But getting a 4-5 cylinder to sound like a ZR1 Corvette is just not going to happen. 



ThatVdub said:


> Stalking the remote possibility of owning a TTRS, but if I were to, this exhaust would not be
> something I would add to it. Arin, anyway to like make something similar to the MK4 R32
> res and muffler, possibly yeilding a more growl than fffrrrrrrruuhhhh sound...


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## ThatVdub (May 28, 2010)

not looking for a vette sound or loudness, looking something more closer twd an mkiv R32 
sound, which I think the 2.5L can accomplish. wonder what it would sound like with an MK4 R32 
muffler on it? maybe without a resonator at first? I LOVE displacement, plus add some turbo on 
top, is yum! 

apr doesn't even sound good on the 2L R, the scorpion does a better job. 

I don't really care for a growl if the sound can be replaced with a turbine sound (ie the hpa FT360 
kit on a stock R32 exhaust and intake sound), just not into the quiet forced rush of exhuast out 
the pipe sound, that is just gross.


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

ThatVdub said:


> not looking for a vette sound or loudness, looking something more closer twd an mkiv R32
> sound, which I think the 2.5L can accomplish. wonder what it would sound like with an MK4 R32
> muffler on it? maybe without a resonator at first? I LOVE displacement, plus add some turbo on
> top, is yum!
> ...


 What you call gross, others call a great way to make power way beyond what a NA engine can do per Litre without reving the NA engine into the stratosphere. I went from a 2012 Mustang GT 5.0 6spd with a Corsa axle back exhaust to 2012 Audi TT-RS. Though the Corsa exhaust sounded great, I wouldn't want to give up the TT-RS, even if it has a 'forced rush of exhaust' from the turbo  

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## HBspeed (Jan 25, 2012)

Any info on power/torque gains for the full turbo-back exhaust system with stock ECU for those like myself unwilling to go for an ECU reflash until warranty expires? Thx!


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

ThatVdub said:


> Stalking the remote possibility of owning a TTRS, but if I were to, this exhaust would not be
> something I would add to it. Arin, anyway to like make something similar to the MK4 R32
> res and muffler, possibly yeilding a more growl than fffrrrrrrruuhhhh sound...


 Wonder how it would sound if you remove the reflective silencer and replace it with pipe work. 
In that case you get rid of the artificial sound part. 
The single pipe layout does not help either sound-wise, less volume.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> It's sounds to.....artificial


 The only reason it would sound artificial is because everything else you've heard for years was actually artificial. You're hearing the engine in all of it's unrestricted glory. 



HBspeed said:


> Any info on power/torque gains for the full turbo-back exhaust system with stock ECU for those like myself unwilling to go for an ECU reflash until warranty expires? Thx!


 I unfortunately don't have figures on stock software. I would expect a gain as the cats are removed. On smaller 2.0T applications it resulted in a solid torque increase across the entire graph.


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

how about the "stage 2" tune without aftermarket exhaust? 

i'm not interested in changing up the exhaust at this point, i think stock sounds perfect.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> The only reason it would sound artificial is because everything else you've heard for years was actually artificial. You're hearing the engine in all of it's unrestricted glory.


 That's a matter of opinion. 

Unrestricted, i see 3 silencers.  
There are a lot of reflections going on inside those. 
There is nothing unrestricted about it, sound wise.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

canuckttrs said:


> how about the "stage 2" tune without aftermarket exhaust?
> 
> i'm not interested in changing up the exhaust at this point, i think stock sounds perfect.


 You can only use the stage 1 tune with the OEM exhaust. Stage 2 is remapped for the exhaust system's main restrictions removed. 




R5T said:


> That's a matter of opinion.


 What sounds _good_ and what doesn't absolutely is a matter of opinion. What I was saying is we have a straight pipe system that's not designe to alter the natural sound of the motor. RSC only tunes out drone from inside the cabin so you're left with the natural sound of the engine and not a loud WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH sound annoys you and your passengers every time you get behind the wheel. 



> Unrestricted, i see 3 silencers.
> There are a lot of reflections going on inside those.
> There is nothing unrestricted about it, sound wise.


 They are not what you think. 

*Traditional Style Muffler:* 










*This is how RSC looks inside:*


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

pardon the question but the stated results seem to be cherry picked. ie., 20db difference b/w the two. 

is the goal of this exhaust to decrease sound overall or only decrease certain frequencies? 

1. @94hz there is a big difference between the db readings of both exhausts with one being significantly louder. 

2. @120hz or so, they look identical. granted that the competitor exhaust seems to have a larger area under the curve, they are much closer than 20db when you take into consideration all points along the curve. certainly, there is not a 20db difference at all frequencies. 

3. this is a passive noise cancelling system. those are usually better for higher frequency sounds, not so much for low frequency. for these low frequencies an active cancelling setup would give much better results. more work and expense of course, just wondering why you didn't go this route. then you could program each exhaust for what sounds the customer wants to hear more of, low, mid or high or a combination of these. 

4. active noise cancellation for exhaust is already in use and can offer even bigger flow gains and decrease the size/weight of the muffler itself. if you've got the time, sounds like a fun project  

Active noise cancellation applied to diesel exhaust


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

What ever exhaust system you mount, the new 5 cylinder will never sound like the old ones.  

http://www.youtube.com/embed/IhJMBIeCgdo 

http://www.youtube.com/embed/kf0jHbY0-T0


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

R5T said:


> What ever exhaust system you mount, the new 5 cylinder will never sound like the old ones.


 In a round about way that's what I was trying to get at I think.  

Take out a race 5 cylinder Quattro from the 80's, get some nice sound recordings and get a sound engineer to figure out the magic frequencies, then try to duplicate that in the RS. Some folks would like that I think.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The graph you've attached is from a 2.0T GTI. 

RSC specifically targets the frequencies in which drone exists, not the entire spectrum.


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## HBspeed (Jan 25, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I unfortunately don't have figures on stock software. I would expect a gain as the cats are removed. On smaller 2.0T applications it resulted in a solid torque increase across the entire graph.


 Cool thx for the reply. If you guys could come out with a dyno for this option I'm sure many such as myself would be greatly interested. 

Also one more question for you. What is the weight of the full turbo-back system vs. the stock system?


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

canuckttrs said:


> In a round about way that's what I was trying to get at I think.
> 
> Take out a race 5 cylinder Quattro from the 80's, get some nice sound recordings and get a sound engineer to figure out the magic frequencies, then try to duplicate that in the RS. Some folks would like that I think.


 :thumbup::thumbup: That's exactly what I've been looking for. Have been listening to the Prospeed videos since before I placed my order. I was wondering if the higher-flow system like APRs or maybe one of the more exotic Ti systems would get closer. So far only one manufacturer has tuned the system to accentuate the higher frequency tones.


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## YYC Dubber (Jun 23, 2011)

would be very interested to hear the APR downpipe with the OEM Exhaust/OEM Sport Exhaust. getting rid of all 3 stock cats and having only a high flow cat should change the noise signature.... perhaps the best of both worlds ? 

from there an owner can still buy the cat back system if thy feel it still drones too much


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

YYC Dubber said:


> would be very interested to hear the APR downpipe with the OEM Exhaust/OEM Sport Exhaust. getting rid of all 3 stock cats and having only a high flow cat should change the noise signature.... perhaps the best of both worlds ?
> 
> from there an owner can still buy the cat back system if thy feel it still drones too much


 Ok, so here is one of my rookie questions/comments. From loooking under the car I see 4 cats/resonators, correct? 2 up front where the downpipe connects and 2 in the rear just before it goes to a single pipe out to the muffler? Correct? Will the APR downpipe be removing all 4 of these or just the front 2 and then connecting where the clamps are midway between the front and rear cats? 

Honestly, I am not impressed with the sound/presentation of any of the exhaust systems I have seen so far. So, I was actually thinking of doing just what YYC has described above...but I was wondering exactly where the APR downpipe will link up. 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

lpriley32 said:


> Ok, so here is one of my rookie questions/comments. From loooking under the car I see 4 cats/resonators, correct? 2 up front where the downpipe connects and 2 in the rear just before it goes to a single pipe out to the muffler? Correct? Will the APR downpipe be removing all 4 of these or just the front 2 and then connecting where the clamps are midway between the front and rear cats?


 All 4 removed and replaced with 1. 



> Honestly, I am not impressed with the sound/presentation of any of the exhaust systems I have seen so far. So, I was actually thinking of doing just what YYC has described above...but I was wondering exactly where the APR downpipe will link up.
> 
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.


 APR Downpipe will link up after all of the catalytic converters.


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

I recall that with my RS4 and adding in milltek downpipes, the drone was awful. I had to change back to stock, just couldn't deal with it on a daily basis. Not sure if that's the case with the apr/034 or whatever dp's but it's something to consider.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

canuckttrs said:


> I recall that with my RS4 and adding in milltek downpipes, the drone was awful. I had to change back to stock, just couldn't deal with it on a daily basis. Not sure if that's the case with the apr/034 or whatever dp's but it's something to consider.


 I'm confident our downpipes will sound similar to other TTRSs out there with high flow cats when mated to the stock catback. Any reports from those?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Does this help?


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## srq89 (Nov 6, 2011)

Are there any acceleration numbers for stage 1 or 2 6MT RS's? I'm sure a stage 2 would be comfortably into the high 11s in the quarter, but I'm curious what 60-130s would look like...


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## Quisp (Mar 18, 2012)

If you wre going to choose either downpipes or catback, which would benefit the car more if the resto f the exhaust were to stay factory on a TT RS


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Quisp said:


> If you wre going to choose either downpipes or catback, which would benefit the car more if the resto f the exhaust were to stay factory on a TT RS


 The downpipe will provide the biggest gains although you probably need Stage 2 software to get the most from it. The stock catback isn't very restrictive.


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## twin__turbo (Apr 12, 2012)

Arin, have you received any ECU's with the timing chain rattle ECU update? This is the only reason I am waiting on an APR flash because I do not want to pull the ECU twice. I'm assuming that after I purchase your software and the ECU is flashed by APR, then down the road Audi finally releases this "beta flash" to all of the TT RS's, Audi's flash will overwrite APR's flash resulting in me having to pull the ECU again to get re-flashed by you with your software that will include the timing chain update. Is this correct? 

See thread #167 posted by Marty. Tried to cut and paste but the VCDS screen shots did not copy. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5601755-TTRS-Strange-sound-when-cold-over-2k-RPM/page5


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

twin__turbo said:


> Arin, have you received any ECU's with the timing chain rattle ECU update? This is the only reason I am waiting on an APR flash because I do not want to pull the ECU twice. I'm assuming that after I purchase your software and the ECU is flashed by APR, then down the road Audi finally releases this "beta flash" to all of the TT RS's, Audi's flash will overwrite APR's flash resulting in me having to pull the ECU again to get re-flashed by you with your software that will include the timing chain update. Is this correct?
> 
> See thread #167 posted by Marty. Tried to cut and paste but the VCDS screen shots did not copy.
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5601755-TTRS-Strange-sound-when-cold-over-2k-RPM/page5


 We will only ever flash you with the current version that's on your ECU. If Audi needs to make an update, then you need to get it from them as we will not force it on your ECU. WE do this because from time to time audi will make an update that actually includes flashing other controllers or replacing parts, so we can't just assume we can bump you up to the next revision. 

It's free to get the APR software again after this update, and it will then include the audi update. 

WE will have dealer flashing soon.


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## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> WE will have dealer flashing soon.


 Arin, please forgive me, i had a few fat tires after work, just now, so... *please define the word "soon"* as used in the afore referenced quote. 

i really am anxious to have that local dealer flash me.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

LongviewTx said:


> Arin, please forgive me, i had a few fat tires after work, just now, so... *please define the word "soon"* as used in the afore referenced quote.
> 
> i really am anxious to have that local dealer flash me.


 I don't have a specific answer for that. I'm told it will be "ready" tomorrow if all goes to plan. It may not go to plan.


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## robcorn (Sep 30, 2000)

I think you should run the sale again for us who have patiently waited for dealer flashes. My local dealer encouraged me not to buy it even after the second sale because of all of the delays in delivering the equipment to his store.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

robcorn said:


> I think you should run the sale again for us who have patiently waited for dealer flashes. My local dealer encouraged me not to buy it even after the second sale because of all of the delays in delivering the equipment to his store.


 Something we will consider. :thumbup:


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## Southshorettrs (Jul 15, 2012)

For those of us that have chosen to use a different exhaust set up on the car and may originally done the cat delete pipes. Will we be able to use the HFC set up that APR has and keep the exhaust system in the car that we currently are running? Since this is a DD for me, I do not want to go through the hassle of swapping the stock catalyst off and on each year for inspection. Or for what it's worth buy a whole new system just to be able to utilize the HFC set up. Of course this doesn't doesn't mean I won't grow tired of the one that I have now and go with a new ine down the road (only had it for a week so think its worth waiting)! 

Thanks for your help in answering this. Hopefully this is not too stupid of a question. FYI I like the sound. It's raw and as we all know videos never to an exhaust system justice. Must be heard in person!


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## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

robcorn said:


> I think you should run the sale again for us who have patiently waited for dealer flashes. My local dealer encouraged me not to buy it even after the second sale because of all of the delays in delivering the equipment to his store.


 I'm in the same boat. I was ready to spring for the flash long before it even came out. Then it did, but only if you sent your ECU into APR, the tools for the dealers were "just around the corner." Now it's been many months and we're still waiting. It's too much of a hassle for me to be without the car for several days and having to leave it across town so I've been patient....but....really, how much longer?


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

I guess I don't get the stigma about spending the 20-30 minutes and pulling it out yourself? 
They'll have it the next morning, and it will be back at your door the day after. 

To hold off for month after month seems silly to me.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Southshorettrs said:


> For those of us that have chosen to use a different exhaust set up on the car and may originally done the cat delete pipes. Will we be able to use the HFC set up that APR has and keep the exhaust system in the car that we currently are running? Since this is a DD for me, I do not want to go through the hassle of swapping the stock catalyst off and on each year for inspection. Or for what it's worth buy a whole new system just to be able to utilize the HFC set up. Of course this doesn't doesn't mean I won't grow tired of the one that I have now and go with a new ine down the road (only had it for a week so think its worth waiting)!
> 
> Thanks for your help in answering this. Hopefully this is not too stupid of a question. FYI I like the sound. It's raw and as we all know videos never to an exhaust system justice. Must be heard in person!


 We've only tested our system with the stock downpipe or the stock catback and obviously as a full turboback system.


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## Southshorettrs (Jul 15, 2012)

Arun I totally understand that, but what I am asking if alternative cat back system uses the same diameter piping to fit to the OEM piping and your piping size is no different from what I can see in measurements. Shouldnt the HFC set up mount accordingly? Or is the APR set up going down to one straight pipe, opposed to the two pipes that the OEM system uses from the secondary cats back?


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Southshorettrs said:


> Arun I totally understand that, but what I am asking if alternative cat back system uses the same diameter piping to fit to the OEM piping and your piping size is no different from what I can see in measurements. Shouldnt the HFC set up mount accordingly? Or is the APR set up going down to one straight pipe, opposed to the two pipes that the OEM system uses from the secondary cats back?


 From this pic it seems that if your catback mates up to the standard downpipe then the included APR adapter should work with it.


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## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

joneze93tsi said:


> I guess I don't get the stigma about spending the 20-30 minutes and pulling it out yourself?
> They'll have it the next morning, and it will be back at your door the day after.
> 
> To hold off for month after month seems silly to me.


 
I like the idea of someone else being "responsible" for work as important to me (and my car) as this. My local APR dealer has offered to R and R and send it off for me at no additional cost, but even they recommend waiting until they can do it inshop.


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## Blkmag1c (Jul 26, 2010)

When are dealers gonna be able to do in house ecu tunes?


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

mtbscoTT said:


> I like the idea of someone else being "responsible" for work as important to me (and my car) as this.


 
Good luck!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Blkmag1c said:


> When are dealers gonna be able to do in house ecu tunes?


 As soon as engineering says go, I'll let everyone know.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

mtbscoTT said:


> I like the idea of someone else being "responsible" for work as important to me (and my car) as this. My local APR dealer has offered to R and R and send it off for me at no additional cost, but even they recommend waiting until they can do it inshop.


 I'm kind of the opposite: unless it's something I can't do well myself, I'll go ahead and do it myself because I know nobody else is going to treat my car with the same respect as I will. 

For example, I'll be doing the entire Stage 3 myself in my garage (as soon as it's available).


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Marty said:


> I'm kind of the opposite: unless it's something I can't do well myself, I'll go ahead and do it myself because I know nobody else is going to treat my car with the same respect as I will.
> 
> For example, I'll be doing the entire Stage 3 myself in my garage (as soon as it's available).


 I had APR do my B8 S4's Flash & Pulley, of course that wasn't much of a gamble. 
Thought about driving down to have the full stage3 treatment done on the RS as well. 
Driving back home is a great way to experience the upgrade. :laugh:


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

mtbscoTT said:


> I like the idea of someone else being "responsible" for work as important to me (and my car) as this. My local APR dealer has offered to R and R and send it off for me at no additional cost, but even they recommend waiting until they can do it inshop.


 Why would they recommend that? As others have said, it only adds a day or two of downtime and some shipping costs. Why would a APR dealer turn down your money? And yes, I have been through the process... pulled the ECU out of my 2011 GTI and shipped it off to APR for a stage 2 tune. Wasn't difficult and APR turned around the flashed ECU the next day.


Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk 2


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## HBspeed (Jan 25, 2012)

What is the weight of the full turbo-back system compared to the stock system?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

HBspeed said:


> What is the weight of the full turbo-back system compared to the stock system?


 I have not weighed both systems.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

recently i got the stage1, its great, something i noticed...

@ calgary elevation 3500ft i noticed 2-3 pixels of boost missing from the graph on full throttle (when going to a sea level city i had the full graph and it was faster), i assume apr nearly maxes turbo at sea level and limits things at higher altitudes to keep it safe? btw what is stock and stage1 boost?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> recently i got the stage1, its great, something i noticed...
> 
> @ calgary elevation 3500ft i noticed 2-3 pixels of boost missing from the graph on full throttle (when going to a sea level city i had the full graph and it was faster), i assume apr nearly maxes turbo at sea level and limits things at higher altitudes to keep it safe? btw what is stock and stage1 boost?


I'm not sure what you mean by "pixels of boost". Is that an autocorrect from PSI?

Boost is basically not a set number. It will vary depending on RPM, engine load, altitude, environmental variables, modifications, etc. The ECU is smart though. In higher altitude it will compensate so it's not simply running the turbo harder and harder to reach unachievable figures.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "pixels of boost". Is that an autocorrect from PSI?
> 
> Boost is basically not a set number. It will vary depending on RPM, engine load, altitude, environmental variables, modifications, etc. The ECU is smart though. In higher altitude it will compensate so it's not simply running the turbo harder and harder to reach unachievable figures.


the bar graph in the cluster

[====== ] @ 3700ft vs [=======] @ sea level


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> the bar graph in the cluster
> 
> [====== ] @ 3700ft vs [=======] @ sea level


Ah, now I've gotcha. Not sure how accurate all of that is but if you're at higher altitude, you will boost less.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

so i'm thinking if the chip increases boost, there is not enough of it anymore at higher altitudes to make chip power, but stock the car boosts more to achieve the same 360hp higher up, makes sense i think since there is that pre-chip wiggle room still


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

This car (the Sepang Blue in the first pick) is my car-











First-
Kudos to Doug, Keith, Grant, and the whole team at APR who did the R&D, mule/prototyping, and delivery of my TT RS. While I was galivanting about Spain and China, they not only completed the project to better-than-OEM quality, but took care of the car, detailed it, and delivered to me at a time and place of my convenience. I am VERY impressed.

Dr. Jekyll:
- Quiet idle (more about that later)
- Linear, tractable driving about town, over hill and dale, and in difficult stop-and-go traffic.
- Amazing fuel performance: I can usually hit 29 mpg avg to work, and about 24 going home (higher traffic density) on surface streets and artery roads. That makes for 26.5 mpg on the commute- not bad, in fact incredible.
- No drive-line jerkiness or clutch difficulties, including some serious time spent while hammering along during TT-E and HelenBack. The car behaves perhaps even better than OEM: I attribute this to the increased sampling and subsequent better EMS/fuel performance of the package.

- About that quiet idle: 

Mr. Hyde:
- He reveals a small bit of himself when starting from cold iron- the precat has to hit a pretty good temperature before it stops barking, so on early AM starts for my commute I strap it all on, connect my ICE, start, listen for the sounds of good oil pressure, and drive away from my bedroom community. By the time I am at the main highway (300 yards or so, past 5 houses asleeping!), we are warm and running silent and deep, like an SSN-21 Seawolf.
- The throttle is linear, and I have not experienced any turbo lag as a result of the change in the performance graphs (see earlier thread discussions below). The car is SWEET JESUS quick. I haven't timed it, but my 60 y/o butt dyno wants to say 3.2 for 0-60 (0-100 for my Canadian friends), give or take. And there just is no need for winding it up to 3500-4000 and dumping the clutch. In fact, I consider that a recipe for disaster.
- The boost and torque come on RIGHT NOW. If the TT RS was a cruise missile before, it is now a hypersonic sub-orbital WMD, capable of obliterating modified Ms and Zs and Cs at will. PERIOD. The RS was already capable, even with quattro-induced understeer: you just point and play. Now the exit from an apex is monstrous, and straight line work is like reeling in small fish.
- I haven't probed top-end speed, and may not be able to, even at AMP. I had already hit 130mph (209kph) at AMP up on top of Eau Rouge after T16. That alone is significant. The braking and tires are limiting factors now, and I need to get Carbotechs and fluid as a minimum before the October HPDE at AMP.

Again- the quality of the work, the informativeness of the personnel, and the customer service for this R&D project are hallmarks of what lurks beneath the skin. 

While you're at it, ask Chris Conners for his impressions. I think he drove it Wednesday night, but my 60 y/o brain is suffering from the time-warp introduced by hard pulls in the TT RS!

Git ya some, as we say down South!


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

tdi-bart said:


> so i'm thinking if the chip increases boost, there is not enough of it anymore at higher altitudes to make chip power, but stock the car boosts more to achieve the same 360hp higher up, makes sense i think since there is that pre-chip wiggle room still


Explain the science behind that please?


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

Your engine (and turbo) are air pumps. The pump is a delta-P (pressure) device. If the inlet pressure is lower (such as in Calgary) than at sea-level, you will see that as less boost. The APR increases the total delta-P across the engine. You will retain that performance GAIN over stock (more or less) as a function of altitude. So a chipped car will show 'more pixels' than a stock car at any altitude, unless you run out of O2.


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

Is that with Stage 2 and exhaust? Or do have more than that for a low 3 second 0-60?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

hightechrdn said:


> Is that with Stage 2 and exhaust? Or do have more than that for a low 3 second 0-60?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


I have the full Stage 2 + RSC exhaust. The 464TQ, 430HP.


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## Finite (Jul 22, 2011)

I didn't see this posted anywhere in the thread, but I was just wondering if the flash will update "Sport" mode only, or will it replace the mapping for both?


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## Finite (Jul 22, 2011)

The amount of boost won't change when you go to higher elevations. The turbo needs to work harder to make the same amount of power though.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Finite said:


> The amount of boost won't change when you go to higher elevations. The turbo needs to work harder to make the same amount of power though.


Which pushes the turbo into a less efficient operating point, which results in hotter air at the same boost level (less density, less mass flowrate, less power typically).


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Finite said:


> I didn't see this posted anywhere in the thread, but I was just wondering if the flash will update "Sport" mode only, or will it replace the mapping for both?



Chipped changes are global and the Sport mode button works the same as it did before.


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## Finite (Jul 22, 2011)

Agreed, but there are lots of variables so it's not black and white on whether or not you will see the same gains as APR did in their testing. I would assume you would make less, but I can't imagine the results would be extremely different either.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Finite said:


> Agreed, but there are lots of variables so it's not black and white on whether or not you will see the same gains as APR did in their testing. I would assume you would make less, but I can't imagine the results would be extremely different either.


I don't recall the S button making a lick of a difference on the dyno, stock or modified. It should be the same.


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

Finite said:


> Agreed, but there are lots of variables so it's not black and white on whether or not you will see the same gains as APR did in their testing. I would assume you would make less, but I can't imagine the results would be extremely different either.


Who makes less (non-secificity there in the 'you make less')? 

Pump laws are just that- laws. Thermo laws have the same characateristic. Q-dot= M-dot times delta-t (temperature) or delta-h (enthalpy of the fluid- comrpessed air is a fluid). As inlet air temperature increases, and altitude increase, the composite effect of density altitude means a decrease in power overall. By how much is dependent on the difference in inlet T and air density.


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## Finite (Jul 22, 2011)

InTTruder said:


> Who makes less (non-secificity there in the 'you make less')?
> 
> Pump laws are just that- laws. Thermo laws have the same characateristic. Q-dot= M-dot times delta-t (temperature) or delta-h (enthalpy of the fluid- comrpessed air is a fluid). As inlet air temperature increases, and altitude increase, the composite effect of density altitude means a decrease in power overall. By how much is dependent on the difference in inlet T and air density.


I was more referring to the air temps, humidity, etc not that the actual calculation would be different. Cars at high altitude will always make less power if everything else is equal.


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

Finite said:


> I was more referring to the air temps, humidity, etc not that the actual calculation would be different. Cars at high altitude will always make less power if everything else is equal.


I think I mentioned several of those, and all are related essentially to density altitude. 

When you say "less", you do not mean less than OEM, you mean the absolute gains compared at sea level are more the absolute gains measured at altitude in HP and TQ.


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## Blkmag1c (Jul 26, 2010)

have the exhausts started to ship out yet Arin?


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

any other video clips of the exhaust with stage 2?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Blkmag1c said:


> have the exhausts started to ship out yet Arin?


Yes


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

For those who've worked hard for the things they own, you deserve it.


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## Optimus812 (May 5, 2012)

Yay, my DP just came in!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

Optimus812 said:


> Yay, my DP just came in!
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


I will be expecting a video of just the dp shortly then! Nah, I'm just bs'ing.


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## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

That car that you drive, ... you didn't build that! APR did.

Just say'n.


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

^^^^^
lolz-


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## Optimus812 (May 5, 2012)

lpriley32 said:


> I will be expecting a video of just the dp shortly then! Nah, I'm just bs'ing.


Get me a GoPro and I'll do one for ya  All I have is my crappy cell phone camera!


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## IPSA (Dec 25, 2011)

APR turbo back 17 lbs lighter than factory sport exhaust.


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## fourtunes (Sep 16, 2011)

Has anyone in the San Francisco Bay Area had the RSC Exhaust System installed? I'd be interested in checking it out in person.


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## RisR32 (Aug 31, 2005)

I just had the RSC exhaust and Stg 2 installed yesterday. I absolutley love it and can not wait for Stg 3. So far I have only had one strange thing happen. On the ride home from APtuning (love them), I was accelerating in 4th gear and at about 4500-5000 RPMS the gas peddle completely stopped working. I could no longer get the car to accelerate (scary) so I had to cruise and pull off onto the shoulder. I restarted the car and have not been able to replicate it since. Even though I did experience that strange gliche I couldn't be happier. The sound is phenominal and the HP gain is quite noticable. I would highly recommend it.


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## Optimus812 (May 5, 2012)

Agree, just had my Stage II flash installed today and 1st gear easily snaps your head back :laugh: Haven't experienced any strange issues so far and the car is pulling pretty good now. 

Dave


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## fourtunes (Sep 16, 2011)

RisR32 said:


> I just had the RSC exhaust and Stg 2 installed yesterday. I absolutley love it and can not wait for Stg 3. So far I have only had one strange thing happen. On the ride home from APtuning (love them), I was accelerating in 4th gear and at about 4500-5000 RPMS the gas peddle completely stopped working. I could no longer get the car to accelerate (scary) so I had to cruise and pull off onto the shoulder. I restarted the car and have not been able to replicate it since. Even though I did experience that strange gliche I couldn't be happier. The sound is phenominal and the HP gain is quite noticable. I would highly recommend it.


 To be honest, I wouldn't put off that kind of failure as a "strange thing" - that's a very serious malfunction... 

In any case, it sounds like nobody went with just the cat-back, at least around where I live? That's a bummer, I would've liked to check that exhaust out in person.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Mine does the same. 
At first occasionally it would act as if it was misfiring, and go into limp mode when under full boost. 
Park up switch the ignition off, and then it will run ok again. 
Now I can't use full boost hardly at all,which is hard,as sometimes it's hitting full boost with just partial gas. 
At first I had the Forge re-circulating valve fitted,which was thought could be causing problems,but after removing it was still the same. 
I've ordered new MAP sensors to see if one might be faulty,as I had this problem with a previous map,not just APR's. 
If it's not the sensors,maybe there's another trick to tuning these ECU's. 
The speed limiter is also back on at just over 260 km/h. 
Mines a 05/11 Stronic with custom twin downpipe,decat pipes and oem sport silencers. 
Forge intercooler,pipercross filter and NGK racing plugs. 
Now with ceramic brakes 
Tuning can be a right pain sometimes


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## OldKenzo (Aug 14, 2012)

*Stage 2->3 Downpipe?*

Arin, forgive the noob question, but with the likely different turbo setup coming in Stage 3 I'm wondering if the current APR TTRS downpipe will be compatible with Stage 3?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

OldKenzo said:


> Arin, forgive the noob question, but with the likely different turbo setup coming in Stage 3 I'm wondering if the current APR TTRS downpipe will be compatible with Stage 3?


 The APR downpipe will plug into the stage 3 system.


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## Blkmag1c (Jul 26, 2010)

@Arin.. Anything on the other two people with that issue on the the stage 2 tune and exhaust?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Blkmag1c said:


> @Arin.. Anything on the other two people with that issue on the the stage 2 tune and exhaust?


 I missed those. That sounds like overboost protection. We've updated the files so to prevent this from happening. They just need to reflash and it should go away.


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I missed those. That sounds like overboost protection. We've updated the files so to prevent this from happening. They just need to reflash and it should go away.


 Pardon my ignorance here but if the cars are going into limp mode due to overboost protection wouldn't we be seeing this on every car that has a stage 2 tune if the tune was causing the overboost?


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

lpriley32 said:


> Pardon my ignorance here but if the cars are going into limp mode due to overboost protection wouldn't we be seeing this on every car that has a stage 2 tune if the tune was causing the overboost?


 depends on driving style.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

lpriley32 said:


> Pardon my ignorance here but if the cars are going into limp mode due to overboost protection wouldn't we be seeing this on every car that has a stage 2 tune if the tune was causing the overboost?


 No, not all cars. It never happened on any of the development vehicles either. At any rate, we've updated the software. you shouldn't run into this issue anymore if you did before.


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## RS Pilot (Aug 2, 2012)

If I purchase/install the downpipe while awaiting the Stage 3, will I noticed any SEL's/kick any codes due to the HFC? 

Thanks! Looking forward to the APR Stage 3


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## OldKenzo (Aug 14, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> The APR downpipe will plug into the stage 3 system.


 Awesome! I just ordered the downpipe. Will be doing the stage 2 flash and downpipe with the stock sport exhaust next week hopefully


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

RS Pilot said:


> If I purchase/install the downpipe while awaiting the Stage 3, will I noticed any SEL's/kick any codes due to the HFC?
> 
> Thanks! Looking forward to the APR Stage 3


 With our stage 2 software, you'll have no CEL issues!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

OldKenzo said:


> Awesome! I just ordered the downpipe. Will be doing the stage 2 flash and downpipe with the stock sport exhaust next week hopefully


 Awesome!


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## RS Pilot (Aug 2, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> With our stage 2 software, you'll have no CEL issues!


 Thanks, Arin


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## Blkmag1c (Jul 26, 2010)

Can this be reflashed at H2O free of charge Arin?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Blkmag1c said:


> Can this be reflashed at H2O free of charge Arin?


 Yes


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> No, not all cars. It never happened on any of the development vehicles either. At any rate, we've updated the software. you shouldn't run into this issue anymore if you did before.


 I'm still not understanding...sorry I have very limited knowledge on this subject. How could the tune cause some cars to overboost but not others? Isn't the tune the same on all cars and thus if Audi had some overboost protection wouldnt you see this on all cars? What would cause some cars to overboost and go into limp while it never affects others? 

Not trying to cause a stir here just trying to learn about the car and ecu tuning in general before I make a decision whether I want to jump into messing with this part of the car. 

Thanks for any info.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

lpriley32 said:


> I'm still not understanding...sorry I have very limited knowledge on this subject. How could the tune cause some cars to overboost but not others? Isn't the tune the same on all cars and thus if Audi had some overboost protection wouldnt you see this on all cars? What would cause some cars to overboost and go into limp while it never affects others?
> 
> Not trying to cause a stir here just trying to learn about the car and ecu tuning in general before I make a decision whether I want to jump into messing with this part of the car.
> 
> Thanks for any info.


 

Audi have used loads of different ecu encryption on the TTRS. 

From what I can tell, between the 3 of my buddies using the same flash we all had different issues at some point. 

Such as the soft limp you describe, the car reverting back to stock after 500 miles. Cars being able to re-introduce the speed limiter, to name a few. These weren't APR issues but issues we have come across in Europe over the last 3 years to name a few. Have also had ecu's cutting accelerator pedals after flashes etc 

So yeah Audi are making things difficult for tuners. Luckily with APR their development team is so strong, that any obstacle they find out in the future they have been able to rectify pretty much straight away. 

Other tuners such as Revo and a few in Germany took months and years to come up with solutions. 

This is why I no longer deal with those companies and stick with APR as they have the knowledge and hardware to come up with the necessary solution in a fair time.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Overboost is simply described as your actual boost levels being higher than the requested levels by a specified level for a specified amount of time. Every car will boost slightly differently, especially with different driving styles, engine conditions, modifications, environments, etc. We never passed the limit set by the factory during all of our testing, so we didn't change it in our software. The code was updated to address overboost that occurred on a few vehicles. :thumbup:


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

Thanks for the info guys. I am a complete rookie when it comes to modifying cars so most of the stuff on here is complete jibberish to me. Just trying to ask questions so I can understand how everything works before making any mods to the car. Kind of a decent money sink to start tinkering with when I am going on limited knowledge. Again, thanks for the info.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

lpriley32 said:


> Thanks for the info guys. I am a complete rookie when it comes to modifying cars so most of the stuff on here is complete jibberish to me. Just trying to ask questions so I can understand how everything works before making any mods to the car. Kind of a decent money sink to start tinkering with when I am going on limited knowledge. Again, thanks for the info.


For the TTRS, I'd say there's a few things you need to know. 

1. It will make the car faster, particularly in the mid range (where you drive every day), as torque is greatly increased. 

2. You'll always want to use the same grade fuel, or higher, than the tune you have. If you have a 93 tune, and 91 is all that's available, you should be ok, but power will be reduced. There's no harm running higher octane, and a higher octane program will have less benefit than a lower octane program if you only have lower octane fuel. Don't run 87 octane. 

3. Keep up with maintenance! Do your oil changes regularly. If the book says something silly like 10,000 miles, cut that down to 5,000 miles. 

4. Enjoy it!


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

spicy german gas  unfortunately it lowered my top speed haha


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

UPDATE-
I have the updated software file and have repeatedly tried to make the previous limp occur, using the same track, etc. APR has solved the problem as I defined it, and I suspect anyone else who expereinced a hiccup needs only fget the update and you'err fine. 

As a side benefit, my cimmute mileage wenet up slightly (28+mpg to 29+mpg). The amount was noticeable, and I can track it on my iPhone, so I correlate the update to the performance gains everywhere.

Kudos again to the whole APR team- they listened, evaluated, and responded. While I was traveling in November and December, they installed the updated file, dyno'd the car about 400 miles, and sent it back. I am still smiling!


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

does it feel any slower?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> does it feel any slower?


We didn't reduce output on his car.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

oh it was limp mode for this guy not misfire? what caused the limp? boost related?


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## croman44 (Jan 9, 2013)

Arin,
I am thinking about purchasing the exhaust while it is on sale for the 24 hours. Can you tell me the horsepower gain with just downpipes (with the Stage 2 tune) over the stage 1 tune?

Also can you verify for me that I can put the stage 2 tune in with just the downpipes upgrade. 

If you can, please respond as soon as possible since the sale ends pretty quickly. 

Thank you


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

croman44 said:


> Arin,
> I am thinking about purchasing the exhaust while it is on sale for the 24 hours. Can you tell me the horsepower gain with just downpipes (with the Stage 2 tune) over the stage 1 tune?


Most of the gains will come from the downpipe section so it's very similar to the output listed on our website. 



> Also can you verify for me that I can put the stage 2 tune in with just the downpipes upgrade.
> 
> If you can, please respond as soon as possible since the sale ends pretty quickly.
> 
> Thank you


Yes, stage 2 is ready for just the downpipe.


----------



## croman44 (Jan 9, 2013)

Thanks Arin

Downpipe ordered


----------



## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

You the Croman from MN?


----------



## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

tdi-bart said:


> does it feel any slower?


Of course not!

Arin, Doug and the team listened to my explanation, and it's an integration (area under the curve, geeks) issue of boost demand versus time (Cliff Notes version). Not slower, a slight uptick in mileage, and still an absolute cannon when I pull the trigger!

Get one, or get left behind is all I can say!


----------



## croman44 (Jan 9, 2013)

sentari said:


> You the Croman from MN?


Yes sir


----------



## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

Just got the APR downpipe installed and ECU up to Stage 2. I didn't have much chance to play with it yet in traffic but it didn't feel faster than Stage 1. There seems to be less lag so it pulls right away. Maybe because there isn't that slight bit of hesitation before the turbo kicks in, it is throwing off the butt dyno? All unscientific observations of course. 

It sure sounded different though. Much louder.  Can't wait to take it out some more. I'm hoping the misfires are gone now too. I have software version: Stage 2+ 91 Octane V1.2 LO


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

LynxFX said:


> Just got the APR downpipe installed and ECU up to Stage 2. I didn't have much chance to play with it yet in traffic but it didn't feel faster than Stage 1. There seems to be less lag so it pulls right away. Maybe because there isn't that slight bit of hesitation before the turbo kicks in, it is throwing off the butt dyno? All unscientific observations of course.
> 
> It sure sounded different though. Much louder.  Can't wait to take it out some more. I'm hoping the misfires are gone now too. I have software version: Stage 2+ 91 Octane V1.2 LO



Give it some time to adapt.


----------



## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

Spent time at AMP yesterday wearing in the new Michelin PSS tires and the 034 RSB. A fine day with great weather and lots of fun. 

My software is flawless. Extended runs in 3rd up to and holding near redline (between T6-T9) are uneventful, even hauling my heavyweight son-in-law as a pax. He gave out after he reported he was feeling uncomfortable coming up T15-T16 real hard in 5th! The software was consistent, had a linear feel without any peaks/valleys, and not a single hiccup or CEL. Kudos to Arin, Doug, and the whole team at APR. The TTRS Stage 2+RSC gets envious looks when I pit in or out, and admiring stares when I cruise the paddock. 

The 034 RSB is a godsend. In soft, the car points easily, scrubs MUCH less, and turns-in so well, even with a bit of trail braking. Absolutely incredible. Don't know if I'll use the hard setting (400+% OEM stiffness) or not. I'll wait for the Advan AD008 before I get stickier and MIGHT need more RSB roll stiffness. 

A great day. GO APR! 
 

Disclosure- my car is the original Sepang Blue mule for this project.


----------



## 1QWIKWHP (Oct 19, 2012)

InTTruder said:


> Spent time at AMP yesterday wearing in the new Michelin PSS tires and the 034 RSB. A fine day with great weather and lots of fun.
> 
> My software is flawless. Extended runs in 3rd up to and holding near redline (between T6-T9) are uneventful, even hauling my heavyweight son-in-law as a pax. He gave out after he reported he was feeling uncomfortable coming up T15-T16 real hard in 5th! The software was consistent, had a linear feel without any peaks/valleys, and not a single hiccup or CEL. Kudos to Arin, Doug, and the whole team at APR. The TTRS Stage 2+RSC gets envious looks when I pit in or out, and admiring stares when I cruise the paddock.
> 
> ...


 Hi..I also have a Sepang Blue 13 TTRS and am waiting for the spring sale to go the full stg2 w/RSC exhaust but keeping hearing about issues(see QW just yesterday) anything special been done to your car ie colder plugs or gapping. Also you are still with v1 not v1.2 correct.


----------



## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

Hi, 

I'm a new APR customer from France. I just get my Stage 2 installed from thursday (APR downpipe on stock sport exhaust and V1.2 map). 

I have colder plugs: Denso IK24 (i've just check the gap before installation, seems ok). 

The car runs pretty fine, but i encountered many misfire between 2K and 3.5K revs,on partially load, just when the boost comes. 

I went on Le Mans track yesterday, and the ECU goes in limp mode just after second lap (only 5° Celcius outside). After switch off engine and restart, it was ok, no more limp mode but some misfire. 

I thought the V1.2 resolve this issue?? 

My French APR dealer already send a mail to APR support, but they asked VCDS logs, i'll do it next week. 
Map is V1.2 for 98 RON Octane Stage 2 with down pipe APR installed. 

Any idea?


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## rp5311 (Jun 28, 2012)

Seems like that is the standard problem right now, i think your like the 3rd or 4th person this has happened to after going to Stage 2 but without Limp mode but misfires are a for sure however i have heard of the Limp mode before but the misfires are a huge problem. I have Stage 1 and am going to switch to another Tuner being i am not impressed with the APR as a whole. Poor Customer Service, they basically will tell you the same thing as everyone else with the problem and that is "We haven't had this problem with any other cars" I wish you luck and hope everything works out for you.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

Sylvain said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm a new APR customer from France. I just get my Stage 2 installed from thursday (APR downpipe on stock sport exhaust and V1.2 map).
> 
> ...


 did you get the low output file? there is a LO in the filename, that one is supposed to fix the misfires. they left the original file available still for people like me who don't get misfires


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

Hi, 

The only information i saw when the dealer flash my car is that there is two versions: 
V1 and V1.2 
My car had the V1.2, i'm sure because i knew this misfire issue and told to him to choose the V1.2 file. 
As the flash is live from VPN APR servers, i can't see any filename.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

i was told there is a V1.2 but there is a _LO in the filename, go ask your dealer to try again look closely maybe try that version 

maybe apr arin can post here exactly...


----------



## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

Sylvain said:


> Hi,
> 
> The only information i saw when the dealer flash my car is that there is two versions:
> V1 and V1.2
> ...


 Mine is V1.2 and it is the LO file. No misfires.


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

LynxFX said:


> Mine is V1.2 and it is the LO file. No misfires.


 Do you have stock spark plugs or colder one?


----------



## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

Sylvain said:


> Do you have stock spark plugs or colder one?


 Everything is stock other than the APR downpipe.


----------



## OldKenzo (Aug 14, 2012)

LynxFX said:


> Everything is stock other than the APR downpipe.


 Same here. Stage 2, down pipe, stock everything else, and no misfires.


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

I just check the gap between IK24's plug and new stock plug: 0.31 for IK24 and 0.20 for stock plug !! 

I'll change it and let you know.


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

1QWIKWHP said:


> Hi..I also have a Sepang Blue 13 TTRS and am waiting for the spring sale to go the full stg2 w/RSC exhaust but keeping hearing about issues(see QW just yesterday) anything special been done to your car ie colder plugs or gapping. Also you are still with v1 not v1.2 correct.


 I am the original APR mule, and reported the developmental needs of V1. I am now @ V1.2, and speak to APR frequently (just 98m down the road). No issues at all, and I track hard. I was at AMP this last weekend (see post in QW) and wenet looking for the problems. They did not occur.

Plugs are OEM, and I do set them very precisely.

APR will be at Road Atlanta (where are you) for the April Grand Am, with a sale (and no questions asked money-back guarantee). I traack a lot- I am a member at AMP, and the car has given no further problems since the fix last November.

TED


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

I just had their most up to date software put on the car last week and i had power loss, backfires and hesitation higher up the rpm range in all gears with WOT. 
the tune is getting removed asap. 
If they haven't figured out a solution by now, i'm onto another tuner. 
:wave:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Sylvain said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm a new APR customer from France. I just get my Stage 2 installed from thursday (APR downpipe on stock sport exhaust and V1.2 map).
> 
> ...


 
We do not have stage 2 software for this ECU part number on the server. I will have it written now and uploaded for you.


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> We do not have stage 2 software for this ECU part number on the server. I will have it written now and uploaded for you.


 What's in my ECU so? How it's possible to flash a ECU with a bad file??


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Sylvain said:


> What's in my ECU so? How it's possible to flash a ECU with a bad file??


 You don't have a bad file. You just don't have stage 2 software. I'm having that written now.


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> You don't have a bad file. You just don't have stage 2 software. I'm having that written now.


 Ok, so when the flash process ask if the car have a Downpipe installed and when the dealer choose Stage 2 V1.2 software, APR server can't find Stage 2 software so it sent the Stage 1, but without informing the dealer? 

What about the limp mode and misfire, do you think the downpipe with stage 1 can cause higher boost than desired in soft and cause limp mode and misfire?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Sylvain said:


> Ok, so when the flash process ask if the car have a Downpipe installed and when the dealer choose Stage 2 V1.2 software, APR server can't find Stage 2 software so it sent the Stage 1, but without informing the dealer?


 The software was not available for your exact ECU box code and revision when you visited the dealer. It's now available. 



> What about the limp mode and misfire, do you think the downpipe with stage 1 can cause higher boost than desired in soft and cause limp mode and misfire?


 Try the stage 2 software we just uploaded. If it's still exhibiting the misfire, we have a slightly lower output file that should clear it up, which is also now available.


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> The software was not available for your exact ECU box code and revision when you visited the dealer. It's now available.
> 
> 
> 
> Try the stage 2 software we just uploaded. If it's still exhibiting the misfire, we have a slightly lower output file that should clear it up, which is also now available.


 Thanks, it does not answer my question about witch file i have in my ECU right now, is it a Stage 1 or 2, despite the ECU box code/revision? 

I'll have the new flash on saturday 30th, not before, but as dealer is pretty far from my home, i hope the first version will be the right one. 

Is there any problem driving with the actual file?


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

sounds like you just have the stage1 file then... if you are concerned about misfires i would try the stage2 LO if its avail, if not then stage1 LO 

arin are there also 2 octanes for both?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Sylvain said:


> Thanks, it does not answer my question about witch file i have in my ECU right now, is it a Stage 1 or 2, despite the ECU box code/revision?
> 
> I'll have the new flash on saturday 30th, not before, but as dealer is pretty far from my home, i hope the first version will be the right one.
> 
> Is there any problem driving with the actual file?


 You have stage 1 right now. You shouldn't have any problems driving it till you can get flashed. 



tdi-bart said:


> arin are there also 2 octanes for both?


 91, 93 and 100 for the US and 95, 98, 104 for the ROW.


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> You have stage 1 right now. You shouldn't have any problems driving it till you can get flashed.
> 
> 
> 
> 91, 93 and 100 for the US and 95, 98, 104 for the ROW.


 Thanks Arin, we will start with Stage 2 Octane 98 standard file, after a road test, if i still have misfire, we will go to LO file.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Sylvain said:


> Thanks Arin, we will start with Stage 2 Octane 98 standard file, after a road test, if i still have misfire, we will go to LO file.


 Perfect. I spoke with your dealer and he should be all ready to go! Thank you!


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## 1QWIKWHP (Oct 19, 2012)

InTTruder said:


> I am the original APR mule, and reported the developmental needs of V1. I am now @ V1.2, and speak to APR frequently (just 98m down the road). No issues at all, and I track hard. I was at AMP this last weekend (see post in QW) and wenet looking for the problems. They did not occur.
> 
> Plugs are OEM, and I do set them very precisely.
> 
> ...


 Thanks ..unfortuately I live in NY so not close to ATL, but will wait for the sale before upgrading to stg2. When you say set them precisely do mean what OEM is or what APR recommends. Also the v1.2 is there a huge difference power wise vs v1. And last question what are the hp/tq fiqures for the v1 vs v2 
Thanks


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

Don't get flash yet, but i just have a drive test with stock plugs, same misfires at 3000rpm full pr patial load.
Hope the real stage 2 will fix that. No error log at VCDS.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

i would guess it wont fix your misfires because normal stage2 is only going to ask for more power, but lets see


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

Hi Arin, 

i've seen on Tweeter that you are looking for TTRS with stock or ARP map, is it for adding new fonctions as the map switching or it's for missfire/limp mode issues?

Thanks.


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

canuckttrs said:


> I just had their most up to date software put on the car last week and i had power loss, backfires and hesitation higher up the rpm range in all gears with WOT.
> the tune is getting removed asap.
> If they haven't figured out a solution by now, i'm onto another tuner.
> :wave:


Is it possible your DP is providing a different back-pressure? Arin, is this something to invstigate? or should it work based on MAF flow and things like EGT/O2 sensing regardless of PD? Again, I wish we could drive side-by-side and see why our outcomes are SO differenet.


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

1QWIKWHP said:


> Thanks ..unfortuately I live in NY so not close to ATL, but will wait for the sale before upgrading to stg2. When you say set them precisely do mean what OEM is or what APR recommends. Also the v1.2 is there a huge difference power wise vs v1. And last question what are the hp/tq fiqures for the v1 vs v2
> Thanks


I'm running OEM sprak plug gap. 

You're correct, S1 is a smll increase in perfomance, and S2 is a monster. As the Carreras and Vettes I cahse down on AMP. 

You can see the comparisons are APR's website. My Stage 2+RSC is rated at 430 HP and 464 lbs-ft of torque. I am a believer.


----------



## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)




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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

Sylvain- ca marche?


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

InTTruder said:


> Sylvain- ca marche?


Not yet, we will flash the car this saturday, starting with base Stage 2 software, have a test drive and see if there is missfire or limp mode. The only problem is the adaptatives, i don't know how many time or miles it take for learning all parameters and deliver all power.

I remember that for the first flash, the car runs perfect, had no missfire, but just next day, after 50 miles, it had some.

We will see on saturday, hope the base Stage2 will run fine.


----------



## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

Sylvain said:


> Not yet, we will flash the car this saturday, starting with base Stage 2 software, have a test drive and see if there is missfire or limp mode. The only problem is the adaptatives, i don't know how many time or miles it take for learning all parameters and deliver all power.
> 
> I remember that for the first flash, the car runs perfect, had no missfire, but just next day, after 50 miles, it had some.
> 
> We will see on saturday, hope the base Stage2 will run fine.


Bie ca. Pour moi, c'etait 60 ou 80 kilometres. Je n'ais pas des problemes apres the V1.2 etait installe.

Bonne chance-

TED


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

InTTruder said:


> Bie ca. Pour moi, c'etait 60 ou 80 kilometres. Je n'ais pas des problemes apres the V1.2 etait installe.
> 
> Bonne chance-
> 
> TED


I have to ask, have you been compensated by apr at all? I am asking because you constantly post how much you love your apr tune every time someone has an issue with their apr tune.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

raced a panamera turbo, did at least 10 pulls from 100-250kmh it was very even, maybe i was 0.5 cars further ahead at the end

also a ferrari 360, but that was easy lol

apr stg1 93 running shell vpower racing 95 octane


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> raced a panamera turbo, did at least 10 pulls from 100-250kmh it was very even, maybe i was 0.5 cars further ahead at the end
> 
> also a ferrari 360, but that was easy lol
> 
> apr stg1 93 running shell vpower racing 95 octane


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## nzt (May 24, 2012)

Can I get a custom rsc exhaust in titanium  ?


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## Williamttrs (Mar 29, 2013)

New to forum. New to Audi. New TTRS. APR ECU flash today. Drove about 30 miles and power is noticeably better. Gas milage seems a little lower. Driving in 6th at around 3200RPM there were several small misfires. Duplicated the issue several times. Does not seem to happen under hard acceleration in lower gears. 91 Octane tune because I travel to areas with 90 gas, even though my home area is all 93. 

Wondering if the issue might resolve itself with either or both of the following a) time for the computers to adapt b) future down pipe upgrade? 

I am a bit concerned because I am about to take a 2200 mile round trip drive. Any major problems will be a disaster. I was told that the TTRS would take multiple files and that they could be toggled from stock, to 91, to 93, to race, but then when the tune was taking place I was told that APR has not introduced this feature for the 2013 model yet. 

Perhaps Arin will chime in on these issue.


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Williamttrs said:


> New to forum. New to Audi. New TTRS. APR ECU flash today. Drove about 30 miles and power is noticeably better. Gas milage seems a little lower. Driving in 6th at around 3200RPM there were several small misfires. Duplicated the issue several times. Does not seem to happen under hard acceleration in lower gears. 91 Octane tune because I travel to areas with 90 gas, even though my home area is all 93.
> 
> Wondering if the issue might resolve itself with either or both of the following a) time for the computers to adapt b) future down pipe upgrade?
> 
> ...


----------



## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

joneze93tsi said:


>


:laugh:


----------



## TraderGuy (Feb 3, 2013)

Plenty of first page threads on this. If you just got your tune maybe a return and refund is in order while you still can. Other vendors are providing trouble free tunes, I'd suggest switching to one of those.


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## nzt (May 24, 2012)

joneze93tsi said:


>


Lol..


----------



## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

Williamttrs said:


> New to forum. New to Audi. New TTRS. APR ECU flash today. Drove about 30 miles and power is noticeably better. Gas milage seems a little lower. Driving in 6th at around 3200RPM there were several small misfires. Duplicated the issue several times. Does not seem to happen under hard acceleration in lower gears. 91 Octane tune because I travel to areas with 90 gas, even though my home area is all 93.
> 
> Wondering if the issue might resolve itself with either or both of the following a) time for the computers to adapt b) future down pipe upgrade?
> 
> ...


Down Pipe will not solve the problem, i have the same problem on my MY11 RS but with the Down Pipe already installed. I'll have a new flash tomorrow, i'll let you know if it solved my missfires.

We don't know why some people have the problem and others not, whatever the stage (1 or 2).


----------



## NoogManTTRS (Mar 28, 2013)

canuckttrs said:


> :laugh:



ROFL!!!!!!!!


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Sylvain said:


> Down Pipe will not solve the problem, i have the same problem on my MY11 RS but with the Down Pipe already installed. I'll have a new flash tomorrow, i'll let you know if it solved my missfires.
> 
> We don't know why some people have the problem and others not, whatever the stage (1 or 2).


How's the new tune?


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

Marty said:


> How's the new tune?


I prefer not speak until my dealer will manage this issue with APR, we have test both files, the normal stage 2 and the Low Output file. I'm with LO version right now, but it's not possible staying like that.

I've the VCDS logs, i'll post the logs here if APR don't solve the problem.:banghead:


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

my guess is we will see those logs pretty soon then...


----------



## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

Sylvain said:


> I prefer not speak until my dealer will manage this issue with APR, we have test both files, the normal stage 2 and the Low Output file. I'm with LO version right now, but it's not possible staying like that.
> 
> I've the VCDS logs, i'll post the logs here if APR don't solve the problem.:banghead:


i posted some graphs from the logs i did when i had issues with my stage2 tune. it helps everyone here know what the problems are and it's good to discuss imo. 

perhaps APR should be marketing their software this way:

"Beta testers wanted for TTRS software tuning at the LOW LOW price of $899! On sale now for only $799. "


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## rp5311 (Jun 28, 2012)

If APR was my company I'd refund everyone who has problems or fix what we all paid for. I run a business and bend over backwards for all of our customers to keep them happy as well as keeping an outstanding reputation for doing what we say. At the end of the day all you have to sell is service. I had asked a forum member his thoughts on which Tuner I should go with, and all he said was find one with good customer service. I chose the one with the worst but a lesson well learned.


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## Southshorettrs (Jul 15, 2012)

I could not agree more RP5311. I run a business as well and if the customer has a problem we do whatever we can to help resolve the issue. Not go completely dark and say forget it we have other vehicles to worry about with potential new customers. Why help the customers that have already spent their hard earned money and their software could potentially be doing damage internally to the car.

I have called numerous times about the issues I am having and have had to replace several parts within the vehicle because of the tune (stage 2). Granted when it works it is tremendous in power. My supercharged e90 M3 (620 kit) can't even hang with the car unless its high triple digit speeds (top end of M3 just over powers it). With this car being a daily driver for many of us, it is frustrating to have these issues with no resolution other than, "well we have never seen or had that issue with other cars we programmed or just go to this LO FILE". 

Why pay top dollar for software and all these modifications if you are constantly having issues. I was most likely one of several to first get the stage 1 and stage 2 and have constantly had my check engine light on for the last several months. Yes I can go back to stock, but know I just lost 800 dollars plus labor (not including all the labor charges with my dealer since it is not a Stasis product). So we are talking well into the 4 figure range.

Now I have to spend more money on a different tune. Tuning is a risk and I know that. But, don't sell a product and when issues arise go dark to not find a solution and make this software healthy for the car and out driving experience. 

At the end of the day, I am coming close on over $6k on this software and have even considered just trading in the car. APR is a fantastic company and they do alot of great work. But, help all the customers that are having these problems either with product refunds (full or half) or bring a solution to the table other than telling me that you can send the ECU out, being it to Alabama which is isn't an option or continue to data log, which really hasn't help provide a solution.

I'm not a technical person when it comes to some discussions about the car. I am eager to learn and continue to try and better myself on specifications of internal combustion engines. However, in the times that I have called APR they can make me feel stupid and perhaps talk down simply becuase I am relaying what my Audi dealer has told me what the potential problems are. 

Lets also not forget that their tool to tune and modify the ECU does alter it. It seems like their are only so many times you can go back and forth with taking the ECU out, modifying it again until it craps out.

I have had this software in my car since probably July/August last year. The tune is extremely powerful, but I just hate to continue to have issues and the check engine light constantly on my dash. Almost could not pass inspecting this year because of the constant problems.


----------



## tilmonr (Jun 28, 2012)

Southshorettrs said:


> I could not agree more RP5311. I run a business as well and if the customer has a problem we do whatever we can to help resolve the issue. Not go completely dark and say forget it we have other vehicles to worry about with potential new customers. Why help the customers that have already spent their hard earned money and their software could potentially be doing damage internally to the car.
> 
> I have called numerous times about the issues I am having and have had to replace several parts within the vehicle because of the tune (stage 2). Granted when it works it is tremendous in power. My supercharged e90 M3 (620 kit) can't even hang with the car unless its high triple digit speeds (top end of M3 just over powers it). With this car being a daily driver for many of us, it is frustrating to have these issues with no resolution other than, "well we have never seen or had that issue with other cars we programmed or just go to this LO FILE".
> 
> ...


So I'm confused, are they a great company or are there a lot of problems and hard-aches that you had with them or is this a different tune from a different company? How can they be great if you spent nearly 6k+ on a tune???


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Sylvain said:


> I prefer not speak until my dealer will manage this issue with APR, we have test both files, the normal stage 2 and the Low Output file. I'm with LO version right now, but it's not possible staying like that.
> 
> I've the VCDS logs, i'll post the logs here if APR don't solve the problem.:banghead:


So Sylvain, what's the story??


----------



## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

Marty said:


> So Sylvain, what's the story??


Probably a security issue on my French ECU, so we will back to stock software next week and a refund.


----------



## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

Sylvain said:


> Probably a security issue on my French ECU, so we will back to stock software next week and a refund.


going to try out any other tuners? i haven't heard of that sort of problem before.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

what exactly was the issue you were having ?
I've had APR stage 2 and Siemoneit racing maps on my car,both gave limp modes when boosting to 1.5 bar.
I was at Audi on Monday resetting one ECU back to factory and loading the newest software from Audi.
I then had a new map from a Siemoneit put back on the car,and up till now,no problems at all,but with Audi's software it's early days yet.
I won't be convinced that there are no problems and no speed limiter until I've done at least 2000 km
I'm hoping to get my second ECU loaded with Audi's latest software,with immobilizer activated,then APR can load their latest map on to that if they want to the next time I'm in the Uk.
Have to speak to Keith and see if it helps.


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

jaybyme said:


> what exactly was the issue you were having ?
> I've had APR stage 2 and Siemoneit racing maps on my car,both gave limp modes when boosting to 1.5 bar.
> I was at Audi on Monday resetting one ECU back to factory and loading the newest software from Audi.
> I then had a new map from a Siemoneit put back on the car,and up till now,no problems at all,but with Audi's software it's early days yet.
> ...


For how long do you have the APR map on your car?


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I had it put on last August,but due to the boost problem took it off after a few weeks,and fitted a new ECU I had.
That meant the ECU with APR map was locked out and couldn't be used on the car


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

As i said, i let a chance to APR to fix my issue:

- First flash: it was a default Stage 1 because there was no stage 2 available for my ECU model, no information until first issues coming: misfires at 3000rpm.

- Second flash: APR wrote the stage 2 and Stage 2 LO for my ECU model: Stage 2 still give misfires.
- Third flash: Stage 2 LO: the best, no more misfires, but limp mode at 3000rpm in high gears or 5000rpm in 3rd gear, wot.

After log analysis, we can see that the target boost is at 2550mbar, but current boost is 2200mbar max !! So the car get limp mode with the error P0299 - 002 Boost: Lower Limit Exceeded !!!

My car could not run more than 1.2bar so goes in limp each run !!!

- Fourth flash: back to stock: i have now the code P0601-002: Checksum error !!! APR dealer have no solution, i'll have to deal now with a real tuner.

Many THANKS to APR for this famous experience on a 70K€ car !!!


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

Mon ami. Time to get serious about making your car run well. Give these guys a call, you will be happy you did. 

http://www.unitedmotorsport.net/


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

Thanks, but i'm in France, i'll not send my ECU to US. I will trust a famous French/UK tuner for make the thinks that APR couldn't.


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

Sylvain said:


> Thanks, but i'm in France, i'll not send my ECU to US. I will trust a famous French/UK tuner for make the thinks that APR couldn't.


Correct me if i'm wrong but there is a UM dealer in the UK if you so choose.

http://unitedmotorsport.co.uk/


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## OldKenzo (Aug 14, 2012)

Sylvain said:


> As i said, i let a chance to APR to fix my issue:
> 
> - Fourth flash: back to stock: i have now the code P0601-002: Checksum error !!! APR dealer have no solution, i'll have to deal now with a real tuner.


The checksum error when stock flashing is due to a mistake by your tuner. I had this problem too and after discussing with APR, 034 Motorsports told me there is an extra file that needs to be associated with the stock flash. They fixed it in like 20 minutes.

If your tuner calls APR to get the requisite information, the tuner can fix it fast.


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

There is no chance APR see my car an other time, my dealer told them (APR UK and US) last week that i want my car back to stock with a refund, why don't they explain him the exact procedure as he never done it before.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

The newer TT RS has caused a lot of tuners problems.especially the Stronic.
I've had various problems for over a year with various maps,it's just been a matter of persisting and a lot of patience.
Many times I thought I would forget the idea of tuning the RS,but I continued knowing how good the car would be with more power.
I've run maps that didn't work on my car,but have worked perfectly over a long period of time on other cars.This ECU can just be a big pain sometimes.
I'm sure a company like APR with all it's resources,will fix any problems that occur on some cars eventually.
Sylvain.
Not sure where you are in France,but if your in the Alsace area,your not too far from a few German tuners.


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

jaybyme said:


> The newer TT RS has caused a lot of tuners problems.especially the Stronic.
> I've had various problems for over a year with various maps,it's just been a matter of persisting and a lot of patience.
> Many times I thought I would forget the idea of tuning the RS,but I continued knowing how good the car would be with more power.
> I've run maps that didn't work on my car,but have worked perfectly over a long period of time on other cars.This ECU can just be a big pain sometimes.
> ...


It seems that APR holds the record of cars with problems and there is no other tuner that comes even close. In this forum you can count a few people.
TT RS S-tronic is not an enigma and others managed to sort it out (Craig's MRC seems to be the fastest stage 2 car around & problem free).
People are going with APR just because of it's name as there is no real proof of performance or something. Actual there are proofs of the lack of performance (see the RS3 vs S3 stage 2, TT RS APR coupe stage 2 vs Revo stage 1 ...)

You say that "APR will eventually fix any problem as they have resources" --> I say they were spending more time on > instead in front of the engine.

At the end of the day some cars have to be faster and better than the other. APR is just the "other" category.


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

Cipsony: agree, and MRC is the one who will work on my car now, he will repair the checksum error due to APR's flashing method and will make a nice map on dyno, not a genric one who works only on a couple of RS. 


You can imagine my face when i start the car and have the message: Engine management problem, contact service...


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

Sylvain said:


> Cipsony: agree, and MRC is the one who will work on my car now, he will repair the checksum error due to APR's flashing method and will make a nice map on dyno, not a genric one who works only on a couple of RS.
> 
> 
> You can imagine my face when i start the car and have the message: Engine management problem, contact service...


The ECM checksum error is not much of a problem and it's easy to fix.
Once you will re-flash the ecu the error will disappear as it is related to the check-sums present inside the map. 
I think you will be pretty happy with your new software as I heard only good things about MRC.


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## Sylvain (Mar 17, 2013)

cipsony said:


> The ECM checksum error is not much of a problem and it's easy to fix.
> Once you will re-flash the ecu the error will disappear as it is related to the check-sums present inside the map.
> I think you will be pretty happy with your new software as I heard only good things about MRC.


Next time i'll listen expert advices, not marketing.


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