# NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo...



## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

Ever since my brother (bugasm99) got his NB, I always bitched about the size of the tach.... who needs a 6" speedo and a 1" tach? Than to see a cup car with it's large tach gave me some ideas... well working with another NB owner and my brother we are in the middle of, finding a correction for this,,, but due to the costs involved in fabbing up the demo, wanted to kinda get the word out and see what kind of interest there is for such a feature/mod.... just making sure this is all viable and there really is an interest. the cluster retains all the same functions it currently has,,, and with out getting into details yet,,, looks and works just like the one you have now, only reversed. 
Post what comments or suggestions you might have and whether or not you might be interested,,,, 
feel free to also email me at [email protected]


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (iSR-floG)*









bump for a man of his word


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## Banned-4-Life (Dec 6, 2003)

been done, just need to swap the servos inputs for the tach and speedo
then make a stick on face that is recalibrated if you have to, cause it works fine without one.


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (Banned-4-Life)*

I believe it is known to be done. The idea behind this post is to see if there would be a market for a kit that could be used to switch the tach and speedo. This kit would include all of the electrical hardware, as well as a screened overlay with the reversed and calibrated tach and speedo. Both pieces to this kit have already been completed, and testing should begin sometime next week when my car will be available for this.


_Modified by bugasm99 at 4:29 PM 2-28-2004_


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: (Banned-4-Life)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned-4-Life* »_been done, just need to swap the servos inputs for the tach and speedo
then make a stick on face that is recalibrated if you have to, cause it works fine without one.

sure, alot easier said than done and to make it look right takes a lot more than just that... unless you want a piece of stick on paper for a cluster and non of the lights working (or at least in the correct place.) but I honestly don't thik there is anything else like what troy and I have been working on....


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## 02BeetleSport (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (iSR-floG)*

sell a kit, and i'll pay cash if needed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
bump to see this happen


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## ElecMoHwk (Jun 6, 2002)

*Re: (02BeetleSport)*

Any more news on this kit you're working on ? I have contacts with gauge face makers and can help contribute those resources...
Anyone have a link to a write up on how this has been done already ?


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## NBveeDUBer (May 1, 2003)

i'd buy it and sell my autometer tach


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: (Banned-4-Life)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned-4-Life* »_been done, just need to swap the servos inputs for the tach and speedo
then make a stick on face that is recalibrated if you have to, cause it works fine without one.

actually go look at your beetle face and you will realize this isn't the case.... not that easy.


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## 8Ball (Oct 28, 2003)

*Re:*

Yeah, I'd love to have a kit that did this in such a way that the stock gague cluster's look was retained. I'm all for it!


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: Re: (8Ball)*

I have yet to see the kit myself, but I know Ryan's (iSR-floG) attention to detail is incredible. I am looking forward to seeing the kit for myself and doing some testing.


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## fritzner (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: Re: (bugasm99)*

just figured i would chime in here... i am the other guy working with ryan (iSR-floG) and Josh (bugasm99) on this project... specifically i am supplying the electrical hardware solution... 
not only is producing a high quality correctly aligned/calibrated gauge face challenging (which Ryan has done an excellent job)... reversing the electrical signal can be tricky to do without damaging the cluster... there is no cutting or soldering with our solution... it very straight forward, error proof and easily reversible...
i will also be testing the setup in my car next wk...


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## UberFisch (Mar 4, 2004)

*Re: Re: (fritzner)*

I would be very interested in this venture! I hate my gauges! I was just thinking about getting a tach with ashift light...


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## mgwerks (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (ElecMoHwk)*

However, will it not require different solutions for each vehicle - 1.8t, 1.9TDI, and 2.0? Not to mention the different transmissions.
I'd like to see one for my 5-speed TDI....


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (mgwerks)*

Yes, the different gauge faces would be different for each application. Depending on demand this is in consideration. I think the idea is to start small and see how much demand there is for the product.


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## The Ninja (Apr 2, 2001)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

I would jump on this. I autocross so I would love to see my rpm's at a glance.


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (NBracer8)*

^^^^^^^^


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

bump for continually getting closer to a final product


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## [email protected] (Oct 24, 2002)

Do we have pictures of sample product?


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## fritzner (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: (SMOOTH)*

here are some shots of our working prototype (in my car)... excuse the gauge face, this is just a VERY simple, low-res, cheap, rough draft we made to help find any potential problems and fine tune the design... the final gauge face will be OEM quality and the final format / layout / design is not yet finalized...
sorry the pics arent very good, it looks much better in person... but i thought these would still give you a good idea where we are at...
on the work bench








on the road








at night








at night with idiot lights








we hope to have more pics and info soon... let us know what you think, what you like, what you dont like, what you think we add/change...
it is so much fun (and easy) to see the big tach needle racing up and down the gauge...











_Modified by fritzner at 8:33 AM 3-25-2004_


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (fritzner)*

Look At my post below for all the gauge faces so far. 


_Modified by bugasm99 at 7:52 PM 3-22-2004_


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## [email protected] (Oct 24, 2002)

fritzner,
I can't see the pics. Bugasm is this the actual guages that we are talking about ordering?


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## fritzner (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: (SMOOTH)*

do they work now??... they were posted in a private album -- i changed it to public and fixed the link... i can see them either way








sorry


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (fritzner)*

My thoughts:
I'd prefer the tach to show the numbers as 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
I also would like the ticks to look more like the stock cluster.
That means every 1000 RPM mark has a single digit number and a long white line under it.
Every 500 RPM mark would be a white line half as long as the 1000 RPM mark.
Every 250 RPM mark would be a white line 1/4 as long as the 1000 RPM mark.
Under each mark is a circular dot, resembling the speedometer dots for km/h.
Here, it's easier just to show it:








This would definitely be something I would be interested in.
Please excuse the hasty Photochop.


_Modified by paultakeda at 4:47 PM 3-22-2004_


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (SMOOTH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SMOOTH* »_fritzner,
I can't see the pics. Bugasm is this the actual guages that we are talking about ordering?

as of right now i know Ryan and Troy have been discussing how this will be sold, either as kit or as a new cluster. We will keep you informed.


_Modified by bugasm99 at 7:57 PM 3-22-2004_


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

Here are most of the gauge faces that have been selected so far. We are trying to get the feel of what people are looking for so if you could please leave feedback as to which ones you like, that would be appreciated. Keep in mind that this will be a full OEM quality replacement for the stock gauge face, not an overlay.
1.








2.








3.








4.








5.








6.








7.








8.


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

Number 6 would be my vote, for reasons I stated above... though I like my Photochop version of the tick marks better.


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## TooFitToQuit (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: (paultakeda)*

I like '6' also, but man it would be awesome to see a digital tach, rather than grab the magnifying glass to find out how much you are speeding. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Andrew


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## NBSport (May 13, 2002)

*Re: (DarthVader)*

I'd say 8 but add an exact red line indicator, not just a seven in red.


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## MIJETTA (Jun 30, 2003)

What if the clear cover had a magnifying glass over the tac that would make the tac look bigger. Kind of like the bubble on watches that make the numbers for the day,month look bigger.


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (MIJETTA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MIJETTA* »_What if the clear cover had a magnifying glass over the tac that would make the tac look bigger. Kind of like the bubble on watches that make the numbers for the day,month look bigger.

I'd find that distracting. Depending on the angle, the magnification will skew... meaning there will be a specific person's height where the magnification will be "perfect", while anything above or below it will create an annoying distortion.


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## Boogety Boogety (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

6, sho 'nuff. Cooooool...
MIJETTA, your idea is sound but not practical. I can only read the date on my Submariner by looking straight down on the dial (yeah, I'm getting old. Phooooey). And that's with a perfectly-clear synthetic sapphire crystal; with a plastic bubble, even if the adhesive remains clear for a while, because of the light transmission properties of plastic, I do believe you'd never be able to see through it clearly. Perhaps a flat fresnel-lens-type circle, made from those page-marker/magnifiers like they sell at bookstores...???
I'm intrigued, I'll keep following this thread... good luck!


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## Turbobug (Jun 8, 2000)

if I were to ever buy something like this, it would have to clearly show all numbers, not just cut off the 0 and 7, thats not cool. Since your fabbing up this basically from scratch, why not just make the tach a bit smaller to fit in all the numbers?


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: (Turbobug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Turbobug* »_if I were to ever buy something like this, it would have to clearly show all numbers, not just cut off the 0 and 7, thats not cool. Since your fabbing up this basically from scratch, why not just make the tach a bit smaller to fit in all the numbers?

not really.... keep in mind the center axis location and sweep must remain constent. VW did not build any type of calibration into the cluster....
some key notes.....
the sweep on the oem tach gauge (1.8t 7k rpm redline) is ~206.5°
the sweep on the oem speedo gauge (1.8t 160 mph max) is ~175°
as you can see the new tach will be "larger" than the old speedo was...


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## thatismybeetle (Sep 22, 2003)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

I choose #1. Although I'd prefer dashes as opposed to dots on the tach. I don't like #6 with both.
Any idea what the list price will be for this? I'm willing to do some testing for you if needed.







C'mon, you can't turn down free engineering help, can you?







ok, ok I'm crazy







Engineering school does that to a guy















btw: GREAT WORK!!! you are undertaking a big job. the true spirit of American ingenuity is inside all of you guys and you are using it well.


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (Turbobug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Turbobug* »_if I were to ever buy something like this, it would have to clearly show all numbers, not just cut off the 0 and 7, thats not cool. Since your fabbing up this basically from scratch, why not just make the tach a bit smaller to fit in all the numbers?

You also need to keep this in mind... 
A) The 0 and the 7 are clearly shown on all of the tach faces, even in the faces where the dashes/ markings are cut off slightly. The red needle attached to the tach servo extends all the way out to the edge of the dash/ markings therefore it will be very clear where the tach needle is in conjunction to the numbers.
B) The idea behind this is to enlarge the tach as to make it easier to see when used in a more performance oriented situation, i.e. 1/4 mile, autox, track, and all you lead footed street drivers. When you are in one of these situations you are usually only glancing at the tach at any given point and most likely take a quick glance to the relative location of the tach needle in reference to a major point such as a number or larger dash. I personally cannot think of a time when I was racing, glanced down at the tach, and calculated exactly which dash mark it was at to the exact 100 rpm. For most people, this just doesnt happen.
This is not to say that these dont happen, this is just a general concensus as to what the purpose of this is, and how the layout is figured out.


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## mgwerks (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

Either 6 or 8 is cool with me! One for a 5 speed TDI, please!








As an aside, I have a question for anyone regarding these clusters: can you identify the icons :
a) just to the right of the high beam indicator light, and 
b) just below the airbag light
I can find no references to these, even in Bentley.
Mark


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (mgwerks)*

Looks like Immobilizer and rear fog.


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## mgwerks (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (paultakeda)*

The rear fog light is on the right, but I'd buy the idea about the Immobilizer - I have a 99 and don't have that. Could the other one be for the 1.8T spoiler? Is there a light for that?


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: (mgwerks)*

that sample is a 1.8t dial....
so yes the immobilzer had the beetle with the key and the spoiler has the beetle with the wing/arrow up.
no plans yet on a tdi dial, i ahve a stock face in stock to design it off, but as of now, we are just thinking the 1.8t 5 speed and that the 2.0 5 speed.


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## mgwerks (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (iSR-floG)*

Thanks for the reply. You might be surprised at how many TDIers there are that might go for this if reasonably priced. After all, "drive it like you stole it" is actually good for our engines.... keeps the intake clean!
Mark


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: (mgwerks)*

If I knew for sure, there would be definate TDi interest, I would invest the time to do all three, but as to date, in the couple different forums we have discussed this, I think you are the first TDi owner to step forward.
as far as testing, I have some TDi clusters here, so that's not the problem, and the internals are identical to the 2.0 and 1.8t clusters, so Troy's jumper system works as well. It really comes down to the production of the OEM gaulity faces. Running off just a few is really not feasable,,, 
Ryan


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: (iSR-floG)*

*Question*
let's talk price......
what do think a mod like this should sell for... and how would you like it sold?
Kit form with detailed instructions.... bag full of nec. parts
mail in.... as you overnight your cluster, the work gets down and get's overnighted back
or as new clsuters.... $$$ but no down time as the work will be done, all you need to do is plug it in and code your milage (Vag-Com would be needed)
Throw your idea's out there as Troy and I have been discussing this, but with no definate conclusion yet.


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (iSR-floG)*

DIY kit: 
Considering the electronics, which is a servo wiring swap plus some sort of adjustor to give accurate readings, plus a face and all wire taps and so on, I would consider that to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $60-75.
An equivalent DIY would be the Alientech, which requires removing the door panel and wiretapping a number of wires (I remember it being somewhere like 5 to 7 wires), which costs $60 for a circuitboard, wires, and wire taps.
Keeping it priced low for DIY kits will prompt a lot of NB people to go for it, but I can understand that the niche market of the NB aftermarket modder may cause the price to inflate to $100. It really depends on how many orders.
You could try to promote it by doing a group buy process for a cheaper price, to get the word around and to make up R&D costs....
Mailing in the cluster would probably be an additional $25 + shipping.
A brand new cluster would be ridiculous.


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (paultakeda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paultakeda* »_DIY kit: 
Considering the electronics, which is a servo wiring swap plus some sort of adjustor to give accurate readings, plus a face and all wire taps and so on, I would consider that to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $60-75.

You have to remember the recalibrated gauge face. Keep in mind that a new OEM quality gauge face from someone like ABD or TVA ranges from $90 to $150.


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: (paultakeda)*

thanks for the points....
Thanks, Josh, i was almost finished typing that as well.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (iSR-floG)*

I didn't realize the face was a complete replacement... durrr. I was thinking it'd be $10 or something.








Yes, that would bump the kit up.
I would say sporting a few different faces would be a good idea. Some like the OEM look (like me, where #6 is the closest), some want a racier look (black on white). Maybe the OEM style would be cheaper than the race style... don't know, depends on your costs.
That being the case, I submit that the DIY would be more like $125-175. Going close to $200 may make people feel like it won't be worth it.


_Modified by paultakeda at 12:32 PM 3-25-2004_


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## mgwerks (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (iSR-floG)*

I'll toss this over the folks at Fred's and see what they think - you never know...


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: (paultakeda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paultakeda* »_Maybe the OEM style would be cheaper than the race style... don't know, depends on your costs.


I've never seen one of the ABD or TVA faces in person, but if done right, they should all the same cost since they will all need the same number of screens. actually with a white face, you would need 2 less screens so, in all honesty a white face would be cheaper, but from the feedback recieved so far, most would want an oem look.


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (iSR-floG)*

The OEM face would be cheaper because production costs will be lower due to demand. The racy white, being less popular, would have to account for increased production costs.
But perhaps at the numbers were talking about, such mass production calculations may not matter.


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: (paultakeda)*

I'm talking 1/1 ratio here... I haven't even begun to discuss quantities with troy yet,,, we are still trying to finalize the look and layout....


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (paultakeda)*

Not to interject but I would say that the actual cost of a new replacement OEM face from VW is irrellevant to this topic since there is not use for it in this set-up. I think the idea that is trying to be expressed is OEM QUALITY vs. a printed sheet of paper that sits over top of an existing gauge face. The idea of these gauge faces was discussed in another thread a while ago, and I am not sure if it has actually been brought up in this thread, so here goes...
The gauge faces that would be included in this kit/ mod would be a complete replacement for the stock gauge face. The new face would stretch all the way to the edge of the cluster and would include all of the idiot light trasparencies as well as the normal lighting for the tach/gas/speedo. They would be created using a multi layer screening process exactly like the factory. 
The one downfall for this is that it does increase the cost to manufacter the gauge faces. This is the reason Ryan and Troy need to figure out what style people are interested in before they actually go into production. This is also why they will be staring with 1.8T and 20 manuals only. It is extremely expensive to make a gauge face for all variations of the beetle at this point until there is enough of a demand to warrant such production. 
I hope thsi helps a little. Ryan or Troy, feel free to step and correct me if I have missed anything.


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

Hence my changing the estimate for the cheap $60-75 that assumed a stick-on face to $125-175.
I'm basing that estimate on the idea that you can sell the gauge face for $65-100 (the price being part of the bundled tach circuitboard, a standalone price would naturally be higher).


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (paultakeda)*

exactly, I was just trying to clear it up for anyone else who didn't catch on. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## fritzner (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: (mgwerks)*

mgwerks,
please do pass it on to Fred's TDI page... there are alot of modded TDIs out there, and if there is enough interest we would certainly be willing to produce that face as well...
can anyone cross-post over on http://www.newbug.org... i was talking with a guy awhile back about this, but my account has been deactivate for no apparent reason...

i think the group buy / pre-order as mentioned earlier would be a good way to approach this... we could set a minimum number, if we dont get enough interest than we dont make up that face.. if we do, we can make up whatever number (+ a few extra)...

side note:
i will be hitting the track event (10 turn, 2.2 mile road course) in pahrump, nv (www.racerfactory.com) this wknd with the prototype







i will let you know how it goes...


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (fritzner)*

Going on the .org right now. In the same respect as troy, I will be testing this out in two weeks at our first AutoX event of the season here in Central, PA and will also be giving feedback to everyone.
.org post ~ http://forums.newbeetle.org/sh...38310 


_Modified by bugasm99 at 4:53 PM 3-25-2004_


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

^^^^^


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## vw98bug (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (iSR-floG)*

i would love to have one like number 8 for my 2.0 98 nb. but the speedo for the 2.0 is only 140 not 160. is there any chance you could make these also. please please


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (vw98bug)*

that is no problem and is actually what will happen. The 2.0 version will also have the correct "idiot" lights since they are slightly different. The above faces are simply examples to get an idea of what people like.


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## Oleandertur13oS (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (bugasm99)*

I was wondering if there is going to be any contact with the speedo needle and the tac. needle when runnning high RPM's say 7000 and the speedo is around 50+ or so??? just wondering...i havent read the whole post so some one might have already brought this up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I am interested in one when you get them in production.. #1 & 2 kinda look the same ...I like them the best


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (Oleandertur13oS)*

This was actually brought up on Newbeetle.org, but never made it here I guess. The actuall height of the needles off the surface of the gauge face is different, therefore the needles themselves can freely cross paths without interferring with one another. I will post up pics with examples of this as soon as I can find them, unless of course Troy beats me to it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ASurroca (Sep 3, 2001)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (bugasm99)*

I like #6 (stock looking) and #8 (chronograph looking). This mod would also be particularly useful to us TDI folks who watch the RPMs vary carefully to ensure maximim fuel efficiency at all times







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## fritzner (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (ASurroca)*

sorry for my silence, i have been out for a few days... 
yes the needles can cross in certain situations, but as Josh said the needles are not in the same plane, so it doesnt actually cause any problems... i dont have any pics handly, but will work on it...
i have to say the big tach was AWESOME on the track this past wknd... and everyone that saw it thought it was very cool and said it looked great...
Josh, did you get yours hooked up yet??...


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (fritzner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fritzner* »_Josh, did you get yours hooked up yet??...

I am heading home from school the end of this week to work on it, So I should have it all up and running by saturday afternoon.


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (bugasm99)*

*PROGRESS UPDATE*
Thank you everyone who replied on this page, the newbeetle.org page, and and all the emails.
I think I have finalized a design.... just want to get some opinions on it....
I have taken all of the suggestions thus far and created a design that is a hybrid of the top picks. I also worked with the LED lighting in the background to create an image that will be the clearest, and cleanest, both night and day. Below are the layouts of that design, along with some pics of the sample we created for test fit and lighting purposes.
_please note that this was for a sample on a 2.0 manual. There is a calibrated face for the 1.8T that is not shown in the following images_
Gauge Face Layout in black and white...








Daytime look, Grey on Black...








Night Look, Blue LED's on Black...








Outline of layout...








Lighting Diagram... 








Working Tack with tester*** face...








Tach in motion #1, no face... 








Tach in motion #2, no face... 








Like always, any suggestions/ comments are accepted and appreciated. As of right now we are in the final stages of the process and hopefully will have a complete product in the near future. All thats left is to finalize everything with ourselves and the screen printer. 
Thanks,
Ryan
_*** This was simply a testing face to check the lighting placement and layout. This by no means represents the quality of the final product. As mentioned before the final product will be a full screened face with OEM quality._


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## stuex (Feb 18, 2001)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

I like face #2 on page 1, as it has that stock feel about it. I almost tore into my tach and did this mod myself, but am interested to see your kit.


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## $sauce$ (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (iSR-floG)*

I will do anything and pay anything to have a 2 gauge cluster in my turbo s. If anybody can help me please let me know.


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... ($sauce$)*

That's too far from stock for me, personally.
Like I said, I spent a tidy sum to get an OEM looking boost gauge... I'm not going to spoil all that effort by getting a gauge cluster that isn't OEM-looking either.
But yeah, pretty lights.


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## 13minutes (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (paultakeda)*

Very pretty lights.








That's enough to make me just want to label warning lights and markings, and leave that as is..


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## searocko (May 18, 2001)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (iSR-floG)*

Awesome work guys! Glad to see a project come to fruition unlike the phantom adjustable NB turbo spoiler switch.
Personally I prefer the stock look of #6. Would it be cost prohibitive to produce two choices of faces? One for the stock look crowd and one for the custom crowd.
Anyway, great idea and congrats on making it work!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MIJETTA (Jun 30, 2003)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (searocko)*

In the first pic it looks as if the tach will interfere with the fuel needle. Is that the case?


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## MIJETTA (Jun 30, 2003)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (searocko)*

In the first pic it looks as if the tach will interfere with the fuel needle. Is that the case?
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/...0.jpg


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (MIJETTA)*

Needles are at different heights, they won't hit.


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (MIJETTA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MIJETTA* »_In the first pic it looks as if the tach will interfere with the fuel needle. Is that the case?
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/...0.jpg

paultakeda is 100% correct, the tach gauge needle is set slightly higher than the fuel gauge... they will cross over each other with no problem.... 
FYI when reassembling the cluster, you just have to be sure to press the large needle on just slightly and the fuel needle all the way down,,,


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (iSR-floG)*

Bump up top.....


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## stuex (Feb 18, 2001)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (iSR-floG)*

Here's something I found a while back when I was researching doing this mod:


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## mgwerks (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (stuex)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stuex* »_









I am SO in love... and the RPM range is perfect for my ALH engine.


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (mgwerks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mgwerks* »_
I am SO in love... and the RPM range is perfect for my ALH engine.

That was original inspiration for this project....
that cluster is avail for VW Racing, part number is 1CV 919 861 ... but I believe the price is up around 1000 or more and it won't plug right in,,,, and it's doesn't contain the same daily driver functions as your stock cluster... it was made specifically for the VW Racing NB Cup Car,,, our kit will provide that same look, at a much more reasonable price.
Ryan


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (mgwerks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mgwerks* »_
I am SO in love... and the RPM range is perfect for my ALH engine.

also,, that picture is the TDi Cup car cluster,,, the standard one goes to 7K.


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## NEU-BUG (Aug 18, 2002)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (iSR-floG)*

biz-ump ... *very interested* keep us posted on price and progress !!


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (NEU-BUG)*

The configuration for the mechanical/ electronics is worked out. All that is needed is to get production finished up on the faces and then work out the sales logistics.


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## spoolin turbo s (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (bugasm99)*

bump for progress


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (spoolin turbo s)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## deviance38 (Apr 18, 2004)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (bugasm99)*

Yea, I'm definetly interested in one of these, I've been looking for something like this for a while.


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## Turbobug (Jun 8, 2000)

*Re: NB Cup Car style gauge cluster....kinda-- large tach, small speedo... (deviance38)*

I havent looked at this thread in a while.
It seems to be going along quite well. The problem is going to be making everyone happy. I know my 99 doesnt have ASR, Immobolizer, while some 99s do have ASR. Could this pose a problem?


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## stuex (Feb 18, 2001)

any news?


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## subgraphic (Sep 14, 2003)

Bumpin for progress


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (subgraphic)*

Where we at?


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## JimmyD (Apr 30, 2001)

*Re: (paultakeda)*

Can I buy just the gauge face? I've got the servo lead swap part of it covered.


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## Braunschwagen (Mar 13, 2004)

*Re: (JimmyD)*

Looks really cool. Wats hoppinin'?


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## CA Solt (Feb 23, 2003)

*Update:*

Do we have an update on this very interesting mod?


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: Update: (CA Solt)*

BUMP
Heh. Probably a dead project, but maybe someone else can start something going.


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## speedhole (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: Update: (paultakeda)*

wow, I remember seeing this and really wanted it for my Turbo S. Has this officially died? I hope not.


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## NBTurboFreak (Jan 16, 2004)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

I like the gas and speedo of #8, the tach of #7. If that combo were avaliable I would be on it like crazy.


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (NBTurboFreak)*

well, i wouldnt say the project is dead, is has just been in limbo for a very long time. Main reason being the cost vs. the need, and the logistics of it. I still have a reversed tach running in my car and have had no issues with it other than the fact that I dont have a gauge face.
The whole kit has been talked up, but we have never felt there was somewhat of a concensus as to what people really want out of it. Everyone wants a different style face, and everyone seems to want it in different variations.


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## speedhole (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

Sounds like some well understood frustration. Let me put it this way, I would buy whatever you put out. Just having this setup is worth more to me than worrying about what the face looks like. All the examples you posted look fine to me. The final "group think" version was fine.
Just tell me how much and I'll let you know. I'm very serious.


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (neuo)*

Same here. I would say the best way to sell it would be to sell a face that looks as OEM as possible. This should capture mostly everyone, and anyone that wants anything different can pay extra.
With that in mind, I still vote for #6, though I still prefer my as OEM as possible looking Photoshop (two posts above the list of faces proposed).
Regardless of the face decided, I'm still in.
Hell, how much would a limited run for people who can commit be?







How many people and how much would you need to do a limited run that can hopefully promote a second run, etc. etc.?


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## VWcabiCHIK (Aug 2, 2004)

< 18TurboS
I like it, I like the style of the one inside the red car. Only thing is, the redline will interfere with the 160mph gauge, and ofcourse, us Turbo S guys will want it in white. ... I think it looks fantastic though. 
I can see where you're coming from about not making a production for these, as it would be very complicated to please everyone. What price where you expecting for something like this?


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (VWcabiCHIK)*

The gauges do not interfere with one another, the needles are at different heights. Unless you mean you don't like seeing gauge needles crossing one another....


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## speedhole (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: (paultakeda)*

And lighting (blue vs TS white) is determined by the bulbs behind the face, not the face itself. So this would be a non-issue.
So whats the word, any possiblilty of this happening for us few?


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## HighBoostBug (Jul 30, 2005)

I'm willing to buy.......
c'mon make it happen guys......
If you set up a group buy and got say 20 people involved would you produce it?


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (HighBoostBug)*


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## 13minutes (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: (HighBoostBug)*

Only time I ever saw that many bug owners in a group buy was for vinyl eyelids..


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: (13minutes)*

you forgot the aluminum flower vase group buys


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## v-dubed (May 31, 2005)

*Re: (FastAndFurious)*

how about make on that revs over 7 grand.. like 8500 or 9000 lol


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (v-dubed)*

sorry for the delay, i have been really busy these past few weeks and haven't made my way into this thread as much as I would like. I will try and answer some of the questions as best I can.

_Quote, originally posted by *v-dubed* »_how about make on that revs over 7 grand.. like 8500 or 9000 lol

unfortunately you cannot just change the gauge face to whatever numbers you want. The total sweep of the gauge will remain constant since that is controlled by the servo/ computer in the cluster. You can move around the alignment of the numbers, but you cannot change the degrees of sweep between the increments.

_Quote, originally posted by *HighBoostBug* »_If you set up a group buy and got say 20 people involved would you produce it?

As most things, the more people interested the cheaper the cost to produce is. My brother is currently working to set up an online store dealing specifically with group buys which may make this process a litte easier. The main catch is finding sufficient numbers of people who are definate and have cash in hand, not just interested as I know myself have been.

_Quote, originally posted by *paultakeda* »_The gauges do not interfere with one another, the needles are at different heights. Unless you mean you don't like seeing gauge needles crossing one another....

correct. the only time this would ever really be an issue anyway is if you were doing say 65 mph and were pinging your tach off of the rev limiter. At which point you should probably give up the whole driving thing all together.

What I can say is that I will pass this interest on to my brother who is the guy who could really make it happen at this point as he has the time and resources that I do not due to school and the such. The major cost of this project comes in the gauge faces as it is a 7 layer screen that has to be done on OEM quality clear acrylic as to keep the proper transparency and the such.
Who knows, i would like to get a gauge face finally so maybe we can make this happen.


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## 13minutes (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: (bugasm99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bugasm99* »_correct. the only time this would ever really be an issue anyway is if you were doing say 65 mph and were pinging your tach off of the rev limiter. At which point you should probably give up the whole driving thing all together.


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## speedhole (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: (bugasm99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bugasm99* »_
Who knows, i would like to get a gauge face finally so maybe we can make this happen.

Thats really all I wanted to hear








I got cash and will wait for further details.


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## spoolin turbo s (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (neuo)*

im in as whell if it will work with turbo s or make one for the Turbo S........would look sweet with a BT setup under the hood and i'm sure some TS guys would be in http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








atound what you cprice on these be? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Scarab_Beetle (Dec 11, 2004)

i'm in, but please make it so that the area past 6000 rpm is a little more visible...
Would be kinda cool to have an LCD style speedo and a gear indicator ala WRC too


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (Scarab_Beetle)*

Is there any way to recalibrate the large sweep such that it goes to, say, 8000 or 9000 RPM? That way the redline area is actually above the speedo dial....


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (paultakeda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paultakeda* »_Is there any way to recalibrate the large sweep such that it goes to, say, 8000 or 9000 RPM? That way the redline area is actually above the speedo dial....

I am sure there is, but i dont have the skills or the ability to do that as it would have to be done through the cluster. Unless there is a way to do it with vag-com.
another catch to this is that for every different engine/tranny type there will have to be a different type of face printed. i.e. the turbo face is different then a 2.0, and the auto/manuals are all different. TDi's are a whole nother story.


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## BigBlockBug (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

its a matter of the servo that moves the needle, it has a sweep that it cant exceed. just a matter of finging another with the right sweep perhaps, and maybe some fine tuning somehow


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (BigBlockBug)*

Well, then, let's just keep it at where it is now -- that improves our chances of seeing a product, eh?


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## CA Solt (Feb 23, 2003)

I'm in....been watching this thread a long time.
I'm in.


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (CA Solt)*

You and me both on that comment.


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## speedhole (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: (paultakeda)*

Yup, still in, http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## speedhole (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: (neuo)*

bump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rebivince (Oct 24, 2004)

why not the real CUP look ?


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## spoolin turbo s (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (rebivince)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rebivince* »_why not the real CUP look ?










that would be great, how would one go about obtaining this.......
i'm going big turbo very soon so i need to see tooat least 7200 rpm's clearly







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (spoolin turbo s)*

I believe it has something to do with the sweep not being the same as the cup, which can easily sweep to 8000 RPM on just half the circumference.


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (paultakeda)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## CA Solt (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: (paultakeda)*

Keeping it fresh.


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (CA Solt)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (paultakeda)*

No, really. I'm serious.


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## speedhole (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: (paultakeda)*

same here http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## speedhole (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: (neuo)*

any info yet? Is this officially dead?


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## CA Solt (Feb 23, 2003)

This topic is in critical condition....on life support; and fading into oblivion. 
Maybe it was BS all along???


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: (CA Solt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CA Solt* »_This topic is in critical condition....on life support; and fading into oblivion. 
Maybe it was BS all along???

Is there truly enough interest to bring this project back to the table? My brother has been driving around with the original unit now for year and half, maybe more. no worries with electronics, etc...
I never moved it to the next level (having the actual production faces made) because there never seemed to be an overwhelming opinion as to what face would/should be used. once It was on the back burner I moved onto other projects and haven't really put any thought into this one.
feel free to discuss... I will be watching ths thread now....
Ryan
rnsdesign.com


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## 13minutes (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: (yelojkt)*

OEM, schmo-EM. Buy a Stack display and don't look back..


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: (13minutes)*

always a nice option for those who ahve a spare 2500 to spend on a display,,, though if that was the path you wanted, why not throw in the extra 2000 and get the the Motec ADL2 would fit the gauge cup much better.


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## speedhole (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: (yelojkt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yelojkt* »_I'm very interested if the product is high quality and looks very OEM.

Same here. The final design if the face really isn't that important. I did like the "last" version made. This would make a nice http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif for myself


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## no-BUG-me (Jun 27, 2004)

*Re: (speedhole)*

That looks good, I'd be in on one. I won't get picky on the layout, they're all better than the stock tiny tach.
Why don't we set up a page to sign up if you're serious, give us the details, cost, etc. and when you have enough commitments, you make them. 
Maybe a small deposit would be required, whatever it takes to make this happen. 
There seem to be many people like me interested.


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## CA Solt (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: (no-BUG-me)*

I agree that the final design is less important than a product that is close to OEM design and is for sale.
Please know that I will add my name to this list as soon as it is posted, as this has been a 'Watched Topic' for a long time.


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## speedhole (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: (CA Solt)*

Add me to any list as well.
Come on everyone, those with an honest interest in this should post up. Maybe post it in other beetle forums too.


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## noR (Jun 12, 2000)

*Re: (speedhole)*

Personally, I don't see why you should waste time on the face if that's your perrogative.
I'd be happy just to have the actuator signals swapped, I'll make my own gauge face.

noR


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## speedhole (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: (noR)*

I'd be happy to make a nice OEM quality silk screened gauge face, but I'm not sure how, and it could be more costly compared to a more "mass produced" product.
Now, if you are simply talking about a gauge face overlay, they never quite look right. I'd rather have a full face replacement, not a sticker.


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (speedhole)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speedhole* »_I'd be happy to make a nice OEM quality silk screened gauge face, but I'm not sure how, and it could be more costly compared to a more "mass produced" product.
Now, if you are simply talking about a gauge face overlay, they never quite look right. I'd rather have a full face replacement, not a sticker.

Thats why this has been on hold for a long time. We want to make a full 7 layer screen on high quality materials so that the lighting and transparency is the same as OEM. The catch to this is that it is much much more expensive then an overlay.
Having just the needles swap is not hard to do by any means. But without the face you are driving blind. I honestly shift by sound and simply follow people when I am driving. I have a rough idea of how fast I am going, but no concrete numbers.


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## iSR-floG (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: (noR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *noR* »_Personally, I don't see why you should waste time on the face if that's your perrogative.
I'd be happy just to have the actuator signals swapped, I'll make my own gauge face.

noR

if that's what you want, IM me and we can arrange getting the wiring done... but see below regarding the face,,, since the nimbers are in defferent places, you simple can use a stick on overlay like many people have, you need to completely remove the existing face plate and create a new one.


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: (iSR-floG)*

I guess this hasn't moved anywhere?
Come on bugasm, you gotta work something out, you're our only hope








I would buy one without any hesitation.


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## CA Solt (Feb 23, 2003)

*WOW*

Hey,
I'm still in this market....
This thread is amazing that its still being kicked around after almost 3 1/2 years!
But yeah, I'll buy one.


_Modified by CA Solt at 2:03 PM 5-29-2007_


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## 00volksguynb (Apr 26, 2007)

*Re: WOW (CA Solt)*

id buy one, but the pics dont work and i dont know what they even look like....


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: WOW (00volksguynb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *00volksguynb* »_id buy one, but the pics dont work and i dont know what they even look like....









Check page 2, there are several pictures that still work.


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: WOW (r0nd3L)*

well, I have been looking around for old files as well as any part numbers or anything that can lead me back to the original construction of this project. I would love to bring this product to everyone just as much as everyone would love to have it, but I need to make sure that this is feasible among my schedule and if I can afford to put the up front costs into creating this. As most of yours, lots have things have changed since this idea was first brought up and I am really not sure if it is that feasible for myself.
With that said, I would be more then happy to help people out with it, I just am not sure if I could put out a whole kit right now.


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: WOW (bugasm99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bugasm99* »_well, I have been looking around for old files as well as any part numbers or anything that can lead me back to the original construction of this project. I would love to bring this product to everyone just as much as everyone would love to have it, but I need to make sure that this is feasible among my schedule and if I can afford to put the up front costs into creating this. As most of yours, lots have things have changed since this idea was first brought up and I am really not sure if it is that feasible for myself.
With that said, I would be more then happy to help people out with it, I just am not sure if I could put out a whole kit right now.

Thanks a lot for at least trying to bring this back, bugasm.
I would be glad to spend some money to help up front costs. Or, if you just don't have time or something else is in a way, maybe you could provide us with more information on what's involved when doing this project. Like how to swap the needle servos, how the alignment works, etc.


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: WOW (r0nd3L)*

well, one of things I have been looking for are pictures of the "jumper cables" which were used to switch the signals. Unfortunately I haven't found any yet. as for alignment, the servos carry the same sweep no matter what, so you simply need to place the needles back where they belong and the servo will carry the sweep from that point forward. In theory, you could rotate the servos 180* and as long as the needle is placed where you need it, it will sweep the same.


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## VWfreekaleek (Aug 31, 2004)

*Re: (r0nd3L)*

Would be able to have one for a TDI? One that goes up to 140 MPH and redlines at 4750?
I would probably be very interested!
Thanks a lot
Jeff


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