# MKV + Kenwood DVD/NAV + PAC RP4-VW11 questions / sanity check



## ericj (Dec 6, 2004)

This will be about my 6th install. My third install of one of these kenwood DNX-7x00 units. 

First time attempting steering wheel control or other CANbus interfacing. 

In my last install, I made no attempt to hook up the reverse sensor because i didn't have a camera (yet). On the DNX7100 and 7200 i can verify that defeating the safety interlock is 100% accomplished by grounding the parking brake sense line. 

On the PAC side, I am pretty sure that i leave the "P.B. Output (-)" and "VSS Output" lines not connected. These are not required for circa 2007 kenwood dvd/nav to work. 

Kenwood "Illum" wire goes to PAC "Illum. Output (+)" wire. I hope. 

PAC "Reverse Output (+)" goes to kenwood "Reverse" wire for automatic backup camera. 

Here's what i don't get, that the PAC instructions do not specify: 

Blue/White on the PAC side is "Radio On Input" - Blue/White on the Kenwood side is "Power Control Wire" and states "When using the optional power amplifier, connect to it's power control terminal". But the Kenwood connector also has "External Amplifier Control Wire (Pink/Black)" and states "to EXT.AMP.CONT terminal of the amplifier having the external amp control function. 

I am under the impression that i do not have a factory amp, and experience tells me that the power in the dnx7200 is plenty for a car this small. 

Can i safely leave disconnected the PAC "radio on input", and Kenwood "ext.amp.cont" and "external amplifier control"? I'm betting i can. 

Or does "Radio On Input" mean something to canbus - does the car need to know that i turned on the radio? 

I presume that the red "Acc. Output (1 amp)" on the PAC side is switched accessory power, aka RAP? they don't say.


----------



## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

ericj said:


> Can i safely leave disconnected the PAC "radio on input", and Kenwood "ext.amp.cont" and "external amplifier control"? I'm betting i can.


 yes but you will need to connect the blue/white from the kenwood to the blue wire coming from the amplifier antenna adapter that you need to use for AM/FM - if its the 2007 GTI its the 40-EU55.



> I presume that the red "Acc. Output (1 amp)" on the PAC side is switched accessory power, aka RAP? they don't say.


Correct. However with the pac units you'll have to use a relay to up the current as 1A will not be sufficient to power the radio on in most cases.


----------



## ericj (Dec 6, 2004)

NFrazier said:


> yes but you will need to connect the blue/white from the kenwood to the blue wire coming from the amplifier antenna adapter that you need to use for AM/FM - if its the 2007 GTI its the 40-EU55.


Yeah, got the metra 40-eu55 already. Shoulda mentioned. 



> Correct. However with the pac units you'll have to use a relay to up the current as 1A will not be sufficient to power the radio on in most cases.


Interesting. In my MkIV i was just using a T-tap from the key sense wire. I have a 12v relay w/ harness knocking around the workbench from an unrelated aborted project so that should be easy enough to graft in. 

Now I just worry about how all this will wedge in there. I have a bad feeling about how much of the dash i will be taking apart this weekend.


----------



## soze (Apr 16, 2008)

NFrazier said:


> Correct. However with the pac units you'll have to use a relay to up the current as 1A will not be sufficient to power the radio on in most cases.


Can anyone point me out to where I can learn how to do this and what I need?

I recently installed the RP4-VW11, and I hooked up the red acc. wire, but what is happening is that the radio is turning off as soon as I turn off the engine. I want it to only turn off when I pull the key out. Basically, I'm not getting any RAP functionality right now.


----------



## ericj (Dec 6, 2004)

soze said:


> Can anyone point me out to where I can learn how to do this and what I need?
> 
> I recently installed the RP4-VW11, and I hooked up the red acc. wire, but what is happening is that the radio is turning off as soon as I turn off the engine. I want it to only turn off when I pull the key out. Basically, I'm not getting any RAP functionality right now.


The PAC documentation states that RAP is not available in some vehicles. What are you hooking up to?

I'm assuming you hooked up the red wire from the PAC side to the switched power on the radio.

The relay won't help the behavior if it is not related to drawing too much current through the PAC unit.


Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## soze (Apr 16, 2008)

ericj said:


> The PAC documentation states that RAP is not available in some vehicles. What are you hooking up to?
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


MKV GTI - Pioneer X940BT
I have factory amp as well.

It's weird, because my chinese nav unit was able to do this with no problem with their own harness.

I've read that the RAP is just a canbus signal to the radio that tells it to turn on the accessory power. I thought the RP4-VW11 was supposed to keep this functionality.


----------



## ericj (Dec 6, 2004)

Yeah, I will be ticked if I don't get RAP from the rp4-vw11

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## soze (Apr 16, 2008)

ericj said:


> Yeah, I will be ticked if I don't get RAP from the rp4-vw11
> 
> Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


Exactly. I thought I wouldn't miss it, but the last few weeks.... I've been finding myself wanting to listen to the rest of a NPR broadcast story... only to arrive at my destination and either having to leave the motor running, or just shut it off and miss the story. I've been doing the latter, as I don't want to keep the motor running needlessly wasting fuel.


----------



## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

ericj said:


> Interesting. In my MkIV i was just using a T-tap from the key sense wire. I have a 12v relay w/ harness knocking around the workbench from an unrelated aborted project so that should be easy enough to graft in.
> 
> Now I just worry about how all this will wedge in there. I have a bad feeling about how much of the dash i will be taking apart this weekend.


1. T-Tap = NO
2. No need to go to the keysense wire. RAP will be retained with the harness, its just the current output, i.e., 30 to high current constant, 85 to ground, 86 to the red wire from the pac interface, 87 to the red wire from the radio.
3. Disassembly isnt bad on that car.



soze said:


> I recently installed the RP4-VW11, and I hooked up the red acc. wire, but what is happening is that the radio is turning off as soon as I turn off the engine. I want it to only turn off when I pull the key out. Basically, I'm not getting any RAP functionality right now.


I'm not too familiar with the PAC pieces, I've used the C2R-VW2 on the MK5 generation with no issues for RAP. I typically use Metra pieces (XSVI-9003-NAV) and RAP has worked from the MK4 03+ to the MK6s


----------



## soze (Apr 16, 2008)

NFrazier said:


> I'm not too familiar with the PAC pieces, I've used the C2R-VW2 on the MK5 generation with no issues for RAP. I typically use Metra pieces (XSVI-9003-NAV) and RAP has worked from the MK4 03+ to the MK6s


Yeah so far I'm very close to leaning towards picking up the connects2 unit and getting rid of the RP4-VW11. That one might be the better option anyway, as the right side steering wheel controls (changing MFD menus) and stuff won't cause the radio to change tracks unless you change to their dummy MFD audio menu.


----------



## ericj (Dec 6, 2004)

NFrazier said:


> 1. T-Tap = NO
> 2. No need to go to the keysense wire. RAP will be retained with the harness, its just the current output, i.e., 30 to high current constant, 85 to ground, 86 to the red wire from the pac interface, 87 to the red wire from the radio.
> 3. Disassembly isnt bad on that car.


Well, technically T-Tap with a relay should be ok. and you'd HOPE that all the switched power on a car stereo has to do is excite a collector on a power control IC, but I've given up on expecting things to be designed in a sane fashion. 

It's not disassembly I'm worried about. It's sticking all this gear inside the dash. I guess i might end up trying to mount my hd radio tuner and/or bluetooth under a front seat.


----------



## ericj (Dec 6, 2004)

soze said:


> Can anyone point me out to where I can learn how to do this and what I need?
> 
> I recently installed the RP4-VW11, and I hooked up the red acc. wire, but what is happening is that the radio is turning off as soon as I turn off the engine. I want it to only turn off when I pull the key out. Basically, I'm not getting any RAP functionality right now.


I'm sure if you google "How to use a relay" you will find some nice diagrams, so I'm not going to try to include any. 

There are a lot of kinds of relays, but since we're talking about general purpose automotive relays, get something like this: 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-40A-REL...636?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4153d26534

That's an SPDT relay. Single Pole, Double Throw. That means it has one switch, and the switch has two potential "on" positions. 

You're gonna cut the red lead off of the relay harness entirely. 

Connect the black lead on the relay harness to the red lead from the PAC unit. 

Connect the white lead on the relay harness to the same ground as the stereo 

Connect the blue lead on the relay harness to the yellow lead on the VW harness

Connect the yellow lead on the relay harness to the accessory power (often red) lead on your radio harness. 

A relay is just an electrically controlled switch. You apply power to an electromagnet and it closes switch contacts for you. 

So this means that when the PAC unit is applying power to the RAP wire, you take power from the constant 12V lead and apply it to the acc. power lead on the stereo harness.

So if your problem is that your radio is drawing too much current through the PAC unit, this will solve the problem because the electromagnet in the relay requires only a little current. 

But any of the EEs I know would have configured the stereo so that it requires substantially less current on the switched accessory power lead than even the electromagnet in the relay. Like microamps. But none of the EEs I know design car stereos.


----------



## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

ericj said:


> Well, technically T-Tap with a relay should be ok. and you'd HOPE that all the switched power on a car stereo has to do is excite a collector on a power control IC, but I've given up on expecting things to be designed in a sane fashion.
> 
> It's not disassembly I'm worried about. It's sticking all this gear inside the dash. I guess i might end up trying to mount my hd radio tuner and/or bluetooth under a front seat.


A t-tap in any situation is not okay. t-taps are an awful connection and should not be used what so ever.


----------



## ericj (Dec 6, 2004)

Come on, ever? Should be fine for low-current signals. I mean I'm usually a solder & heatshrink guy but some applications just don't require it.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

ericj said:


> Come on, ever? Should be fine for low-current signals. I mean I'm usually a solder & heatshrink guy but some applications just don't require it.
> 
> Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


I'm sorry but I'd rather use a form of connection that doesn't break strands as part of the connection. In my line of work, I use the connection that I never have to worry about. A car is the most hostile environment for electronics and connections, do it once, forget about it. In all the years I've been doing it, I've never had a car come back for a wiring issue.

You don't even want to hear all of the stories of issues I've had with t-taps coming from other shops - even when they use the appropriate size.


----------

