# looking for a candidate!



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

guys, i was just wondering whats teh max NA power we have gotten out of the engine?

i have seen the 180 whp @6000rpms on the manifold alone.

but is anyone out there WITH the mani and all the other bolt ons? including headers?

depending on the number, i'll make some desitions.

thanks.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

well.. i have been doing some research to max this engine in NA mode...
all books, formulas and calculations just show me what i already knew: it sucks.

without cams, we can only make about 220 whp (give or take 5-10ish?) with EVERYTHING on it, and i mean EVERYHTING.
and it would cost about $8000 from bare_stock, and that number doesnt include the tuning.

...and to be specific.

i was thinking on doing:
-increased compression ratio: from 9.5 to 11.0:1
-NA specific water/meth to NOT be a slave of the weather, plus a couple of ponies
-intake manifold
-stage 3 ferrea valvetrain 
-portead head
-bored chambers
-headers
-intake
-exhaust
-downpipe
-pulley

but again, according to the books from my library, online sources, and online articles, it aint worth it. 
with THAT set up+ cams that allow more timing, a lot more could be done.

i dunno. i was really hoping on doing a monster NA... i guess turbo is the way then... just letting everyone know.


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## slomk5 (Feb 9, 2009)

hmm cams woundnt be all that hard to make


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

thy, i think turbo is the way to go. I would reinforce top end of the engine though; meaning port polish, better valves, and valve springs.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

head work isn't really needed. the 2.5L head is the best flowing head vw ever made and it can safely rev to 8K daily with nothing neede to be upgraded in the valve train. thats NOT saying it won't be needed to be upgrade if there cams and high comp ratio. but with no cams, no one knows yet if they are needed.

personally. i think cams, ITB's, full tuned exhaust on a stock motor could get 250whp
but thats a educated guess because of the cam issues......


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

eatrach said:


> thy, i think turbo is the way to go. I would reinforce top end of the engine though; meaning port polish, better valves, and valve springs.


That was included in the head porting, and the stagge 3 valvetrain...

I yea, turbo is the way to go. I didn't want to accept it, but there is no plan b.



nothing-leaves-stock said:


> head work isn't really needed. the 2.5L head is the best flowing head vw ever made and it can safely rev to 8K daily with nothing neede to be upgraded in the valve train. thats NOT saying it won't be needed to be upgrade if there cams and high comp ratio. but with no cams, no one knows yet if they are needed.
> 
> personally. i think cams, ITB's, full tuned exhaust on a stock motor could get 250whp
> but thats a educated guess because of the cam issues......


yeap. all the books, articles, and what not say the same: "with a specialized camshaft..."

cause without it, there is only so much you can gain. i mean, raising the compression will only "theoretically" yield [email protected] in the stock cam. but if you use specialized cams, it can yield MUCH more.

but then again, NA development is expensive, and maybe just as expensive as FI, which is the reason we dont see much of it.

just another time i'm reminded to go turbo or be done.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Well Fred, since I can't afford to go BT any time soon since I can't exactly save up the money, I'll continue building mine as NA. After the intake mani I'm gonna work on doing the outside of the car so it's not 4x4 and what not, then it's on to internals. Just so you know, whenever EJ re-releases their intake mani, I'm gonna get it and hit a dyno. I'll post up the deets whenever that happens cause I have all the supporting mods.

Uni stage 2
underdrive crank pulley
header/high flow cat
CAI


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

dont change the internals until you absolutely need to.

try and work on new stuff... but be mindfull, if you get an intake manifold, you wont be able to get ITBs!


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Yeah well I won't be doing that for at least a year...gotta get on H&R premiums and off my stock 16's first.


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## passat_98 (Mar 31, 2007)

this eg poster boy is only putting down 175whp


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

If I'm not mistaken though he is running stock software which explains a lot.


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## passat_98 (Mar 31, 2007)

he's on c2 software


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## redrbt2.5 (May 11, 2009)

that motor is absolutely beautiful!:thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

redrbt2.5 said:


> that motor is absolutely beautiful!:thumbup:


shame it isnt fast.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Haha it is nice. I deffinately wanna get a valve cover to match my mani and dress up the engine alittle more. Not putting down Eurojet but the HEP one is very nice and it makes great power with Jeffs tune. Im sure if Eurojet comes out with one and has software to go with it, it'll probably put down the same or close to the power that mine does. Im holding out till theres some cams tho and more money saved, no turbo for me. I love the NA sound and feel of the car too much to give it up now.


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## BluMagic (Apr 9, 2008)

Screw FI do this it'll be so much cooler.... you might as well try to get someone to make a Stroker kit... prob easier than getting someone to make cams. 

get standalone and scrap the MAF. scrap the air-con, 

upgrade the valvetrain with 11:1 CR and rev that bish to 9k.... i guarentee it be and sound 1,000,000 times cooler than a blow off valve. 

there's always something faster. It's the entire experience of having something so unique, fun, and cool that would make a built N/A 2.5 worth it. 

One day when I have the funds i'm going to find a scrapped 2.5L motor and build it.... then drop it into and EG shell.


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## Salty VW (Sep 2, 2004)

thygreyt said:


> i was thinking on doing:
> -intake manifold
> -headers
> -intake
> ...


Cut it down to the above list, and you've got 230-240 crank HP out of a (reliable) all motor 2.5L for a much easier to swallow chunk of change. That's pretty good if you ask me. The other parts in my opinion don't yield enough power to make their cost worthwhile as compared to going forced induction or simply buying a car that's already _fast_ from the factory.

EDIT: Just my personal opinion and preferences. But if your in it for the challenge of building a _high_ horsepower NA 2.5L, then go for it. I can't wait to see the dyno sheets. :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

well.. when i have a pile of cash laying around, i'll buy an mkiv body, a 2.5 engine, and i'll build an NA 2.5 mkiv


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## Salty VW (Sep 2, 2004)

Why MKIV? Not much weight advantage (if any?)... Looks perhaps?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i did write mkiv. as mk4...

and just because thats my favorite vw... i dunno...


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## passat_98 (Mar 31, 2007)

like such


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i know. i have seen it.

there are mk1, mk3, mk4 swaps.

mk4 is my favorite


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## Salty VW (Sep 2, 2004)

thygreyt said:


> i did write mkiv. as mk4...
> 
> and just because thats my favorite vw... i dunno...


Good enough reason. :thumbup:

I think the basic MK4's are kinda "blah", but I LOVE the look of GLI's, 337's, 20AE's, & R32's. :thumbup:


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## Gunbunny08 (Nov 13, 2008)

An all out NA 2.5L build would be cool, if you wanna spend BIG money to get not a whole lot more than a sense of pride. Which is fine if that's all you care about. And hell yeah it would sound cool. But that same money could take you way beyond 400 WHP on a turbo build. And 2/3 of that money could give around the same or more WHP that the all out NA build. And a modded NA 2.5 sounds pretty orgasmic, but a 2.5T just makes my penis explode.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Gunbunny08 said:


> An all out NA 2.5L build would be cool, if you wanna spend BIG money to get not a whole lot more than a sense of pride. Which is fine if that's all you care about. And hell yeah it would sound cool. But that same money could take you way beyond 400 WHP on a turbo build. And 2/3 of that money could give around the same or more WHP that the all out NA build. And a modded NA 2.5 sounds pretty orgasmic, but a 2.5T just makes my penis explode.


by the time i have the "pile" of cash, NA development should exist.

and btw, i think you have a sex problem... lol


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

I kinda like your idea of putting a 2.5 in a mk4 but wrap your head around this. I had an idea not too long ago of having a corrado and putting a 2.5 in that, yeah they come with vr6s already but I think the 2.5 would also be well suited in a corrado shell. Also, noones done that yet and it would be lighter then a mk4. Think about that one haha


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

wow, sex issues huh?! haha

yes there is a a mk4 and a mk1 with 2.5L RUNNING and done. and a mk3 not running yet. oh, and look out for another body with a 2.5L swap coming soon 

you WON'T get over 200ish without cams. thats the end all right now.

we have done tons of swaps here...16v. aba. aeb. awp's, vr6. vrT, R32T, abaT, 16vT, yadda yadda yadda.....2.5 in our mk1 is the most fun swap to drive we have done yet. not the fastest, but its quick! faster then a built NA R32(cams, exhaust, intake, flash etc) 

mk4 2.5L swap is almost easy. bolts in, get beetle assy and harness and your good to go.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> *1)* you WON'T get over 200ish without cams. thats the end all right now.
> 
> *2) *mk4 2.5L swap is almost easy. bolts in, get beetle assy and harness and your good to go.


1) agreed. without cams, increasing the comp ratio will only give you 5hp... but if you have cams + the 11:1, then it will be fun!

2) thats one of the many reasons why i want an mk4 2.5


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

Salty VW said:


> Why MKIV? Not much weight advantage (if any?)... Looks perhaps?


The MkIV GTI is *heavier* than a MkV Rabbit by at least 100lbs I think?


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## M3NTAL Kev (Jun 11, 2002)

I'm not sure what practical experience you guys are pulling from, but anyone who thinks bolt on mods such as:

-intake manifold
-headers
-intake
-exhaust
-downpipe
-chip

will yield over 200whp is nuts.

This is a nice street engine, but without factory racing dollars behind component development, it's going to remain pretty much that. Even with cams, I think that this engine will peak somewhere around 215-220whp, and that's with bundles of cash in it. Now if we start to talk about ITBs and SEM, then getting to 100hp/L may happen, but at what cost? At some point it just makes sense to save the money and buy a better car as a starting point.

Personally, I'm waiting for the EuroJet BT kit as a possibility for this car, otherwise the smart money is on getting something else to satisfy my performance needs (and wants).


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## Gunbunny08 (Nov 13, 2008)

I think Eurojet is gonna convert all you NA guys once their turbo kit comes out!


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

nope, too many people talk and say "i want it!" and when it comes out? no one buys it.

cams ARE the answer to this motor.
and you will get over 200 with them


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Ill be waiting patiently for them and when the time comes, Ill be giving you guys at NLS a shout to get em put in. :thumbup: Still gotta set up a day to come by and have you vagcom my tails and my hatch too. I got the hatchpop kit awhile ago but havent got the coding changed to make it work with the fob yet.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> nope, too many people talk and say "i want it!" and when it comes out? no one buys it.
> 
> cams ARE the answer to this motor.
> and you will get over 200 with them


The main problem with the cams here, is that no one is near completion on them.
As far as the turbo, I habe been saving since mmy last birthday (july 1st 2010) in order t buy the kit. I'n alnost done saving!


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## Salty VW (Sep 2, 2004)

M3NTAL Kev said:


> I'm not sure what practical experience you guys are pulling from, but anyone who thinks bolt on mods such as:
> 
> -intake manifold
> -headers
> ...


Go back and read the post, I said crank horsepower, not wheel horsepower. :thumbup:



M3NTAL Kev said:


> At some point it just makes sense to save the money and buy a better car as a starting point.


Yup. :thumbup:


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## M3NTAL Kev (Jun 11, 2002)

Salty VW said:


> Go back and read the post, I said crank horsepower, not wheel horsepower. :thumbup:


Really? Looks like you said 230-240 crank and I said 200 wheel. Aren't those reasonably close to the same? 



Salty VW said:


> Cut it down to the above list, and you've got 230-240 crank HP out of a (reliable) all motor 2.5L for a much easier to swallow chunk of change. That's pretty good if you ask me. The other parts in my opinion don't yield enough power to make their cost worthwhile as compared to going forced induction or simply buying a car that's already _fast_ from the factory.


2x on the "buy a faster car" :thumbup:



nothing-leaves-stock said:


> nope, too many people talk and say "i want it!" and when it comes out? no one buys it.


This is for certain and most likely why outfits are reluctant to get into development for this engine.



nothing-leaves-stock said:


> cams ARE the answer to this motor.
> and you will get over 200 with them


Cams may be the answer, but this engine has been around since 2005.5 and many years later there still aren't any on the market. So while they may be the answer, people are eventually going to forget what the question was.


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## passat_98 (Mar 31, 2007)

M3NTAL Kev said:


> people are eventually going to forget what the question was.


Lol


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## Salty VW (Sep 2, 2004)

M3NTAL Kev said:


> Really? Looks like you said 230-240 crank and I said *over* 200 wheel. Aren't those reasonably close to the same?


You said "over 200whp". 200whp with %20 loss (what I've observed as being common among stock 2.5L dyno pulls I've read - correct me if I'm wrong) is 240 crank hp. Have we not already seen intake manifolds take the 2.5 up to 190whp? What's to keep one from thinking that a few extra mods won't add an additional 10whp? Even 190whp at %20 loss is just 2whp short of the lower figured I mentioned. 

Perhaps I'm wrong, but my point was that with some fairly standard bolt-ons you can get these engines up into the low 200 crank HP range, and I think that's pretty good considering the cost, type of car, original intended use of the engine, etc. If I wanted more than that, my personal preference would lean towards buying a completely different car.


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## M3NTAL Kev (Jun 11, 2002)

Salty VW said:


> You said "over 200whp". 200whp with %20 loss (what I've observed as being common among stock 2.5L dyno pulls I've read - correct me if I'm wrong) is 240 crank hp. Have we not already seen intake manifolds take the 2.5 up to 190whp? What's to keep one from thinking that a few extra mods won't add an additional 10whp? Even 190whp at %20 loss is just 2whp short of the lower figured I mentioned.
> 
> Perhaps I'm wrong, but my point was that with some fairly standard bolt-ons you can get these engines up into the low 200 crank HP range, and I think that's pretty good considering the cost, type of car, original intended use of the engine, etc. If I wanted more than that, my personal preference would lean towards buying a completely different car.


I suppose you have a point with respect to numbers. I guess I am a pessimist (and bitter old man) when it comes to the numbers. I bought this car for dual duty while my wife went back to school (god, I miss having a daily driver AND a track rat), and you're right, given the price point and the intention behind its design, its a great car. I have to keep reminding myself of that as the sub-frame clunks, the engine mounts shift and the other little annoyances creep up. I guess a dyno session in the spring will tell if there has been a substantial gain in power.

Having said that, we are both in agreement on buying a different car for real performance use.


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## Gunbunny08 (Nov 13, 2008)

M3NTAL Kev said:


> I have to keep reminding myself of that as the sub-frame clunks, the engine mounts shift and the other little annoyances creep up. I guess a dyno session in the spring will tell if there has been a substantial gain in power.
> 
> Having said that, we are both in agreement on buying a different car for real performance use.


 BSH just finished their engine mount, so you can buy a set of all 3 mounts now. and ECS has a spacer and larger bolts for the subframe clunking. As for buying a different car for real performance. This motor is WAY more capable than people tend to think. A turbo kit would COMPLETELY transform the car at a fraction of the price of buying a "better" car to start with. Modding isn't about starting with something fast and making it faster, it's about getting the most performance out of what you have. I wouldn't be surprised if Eurojet and Unitronic make some HUGE numbers with the EJ 2.5T kit. That and the way it's gonna sound will embarrass the 2.0T guys. Then they'll finally feel the shame of buying the "worse" platform.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> get beetle assy and harness and your good to go.


Josh you can also trim down the MKV harness if you cant get the beetle harness.

As for ITB's. A DBW ITB kit would be nice but it would be extremely expensive


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## passat_98 (Mar 31, 2007)

Issam Abed said:


> Josh you can also trim down the MKV harness if you cant get the beetle harness.
> 
> As for ITB's. A DBW ITB kit would be nice but it would be extremely expensive


I'm sure after R&D cost yeah but if there was a kit cheaper than going BT I'm sure they'd sell like crazy. Most DBC ITB setups run 2-3K without tuning. I'd pay 3k for itb's even if didn't make crazy hp; purely based on sound and they look badass :laugh:


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## M3NTAL Kev (Jun 11, 2002)

Gunbunny08 said:


> BSH just finished their engine mount, so you can buy a set of all 3 mounts now. and ECS has a spacer and larger bolts for the subframe clunking. As for buying a different car for real performance. This motor is WAY more capable than people tend to think. A turbo kit would COMPLETELY transform the car at a fraction of the price of buying a "better" car to start with. Modding isn't about starting with something fast and making it faster, it's about getting the most performance out of what you have. I wouldn't be surprised if Eurojet and Unitronic make some HUGE numbers with the EJ 2.5T kit. That and the way it's gonna sound will embarrass the 2.0T guys. Then they'll finally feel the shame of buying the "worse" platform.


I have the larger bolts and spacers - they're Audi/Passat items, but they haven't solved all of the clunking issues. I will likely pick up the BSH mounts, I already have the VF engineering mount.

As for shaming the 2.0T crowd, I don't think they necessarily bought the worse platform. Many have modded, enjoyed and moved on to other cars while the Rabbit crowd is waiting for turbo kits and cams. I'm anxious to see what EJ have to offer, but really, I may be out of the Rabbit by the time their products break market.

And I disagree RE: modding. I think its about making whatever you have faster/better etc. but at some point it makes sense to move to a better platform. Sure you can be that guy with the sweet $40k VW Rabbit, or you can go out and pick up a used 911.


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## Gunbunny08 (Nov 13, 2008)

M3NTAL Kev said:


> I have the larger bolts and spacers - they're Audi/Passat items, but they haven't solved all of the clunking issues. I will likely pick up the BSH mounts, I already have the VF engineering mount.
> 
> As for shaming the 2.0T crowd, I don't think they necessarily bought the worse platform. Many have modded, enjoyed and moved on to other cars while the Rabbit crowd is waiting for turbo kits and cams. I'm anxious to see what EJ have to offer, but really, I may be out of the Rabbit by the time their products break market.
> 
> And I disagree RE: modding. I think its about making whatever you have faster/better etc. but at some point it makes sense to move to a better platform. Sure you can be that guy with the sweet $40k VW Rabbit, or you can go out and pick up a used 911.


 I was kinda just teasing about the 2.0T shame. Just poking fun at how they get all the love from the aftermarket, but this motor has just as much, if not more potential. My statement about modding was more personal than anything. There's a million ways to look at modding, but it usually comes down to the budget and the performance goals you're working with. To each his own. I think it would be unwise to sell your Rabbit before you at least see what EJ is working on. They're MUCH farther along than most people think. It's gonna be SERIOUS!


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

lol, what do you actually know about the kit?


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## M3NTAL Kev (Jun 11, 2002)

Gunbunny08 said:


> I think it would be unwise to sell your Rabbit before you at least see what EJ is working on. They're MUCH farther along than most people think. It's gonna be SERIOUS!


I won't be selling it any time soon; it will likely become a beater making room for something a little more special for fair weather. Though, I am waiting for the EJ kit to give the Rabbit new life.



thygreyt said:


> lol, what do you actually know about the kit?


x2 - what do you know, because there hasn't been much in the way of updates since the manifold renderings.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

mkV harness is usable...thats whats in our mk1.
beetle is a hair easier.

ITB's can be done, we have ideas in our heads. but not for 3K sorry....


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## passat_98 (Mar 31, 2007)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> mkV harness is usable...thats whats in our mk1.
> beetle is a hair easier.
> 
> ITB's can be done, we have ideas in our heads. but not for 3K sorry....


Once you get to the turbo price range, people won't see the benefit in going NA. It'll be "i want" all over till you release the price, then it's  Believe me I wasn't expecting the 5k-7k quote you gave me for ITBs


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

one off parts and one off tuning isn't cheap.
even just the parts are 2500-3500 with out tuning or custom throttle control


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## Gunbunny08 (Nov 13, 2008)

thygreyt said:


> lol, what do you actually know about the kit?


I know if you call EJ and get a hold of Joel, he'll give you some info if you're serious about the kit. He actually wound up answering most of my questions. I dunno if I'm allowed to say anything though. I'll ask Joel if I can say anything and let you guys know.


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## Salty VW (Sep 2, 2004)

Gunbunny08 said:


> As for buying a different car for real performance. This motor is WAY more capable than people tend to think. A turbo kit would COMPLETELY transform the car at a fraction of the price of buying a "better" car to start with.


No doubt. Keep in mind though that your 13 second modified car ain't gonna be as reliable as your 13 second factory car. Had I the cash and desire for something that quick, that would be my main reservation. Not so say it isn't worth it, or that it wouldn't be awesome. But my preference tends to be to stick with somewhat mild bolt-ons (then again, I'm not much of a speed freak).

I'm definitely not gonna argue with the fast:$ ratio though. Spanking stock 2.0T's for less money? Yes please!


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## Gott ist gut (Jul 2, 2010)

*I'll take one please.*

This is what I want under my MKV Jetta hood. 
BTW, watch the headers!


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## KyleLaughs (Mar 23, 2010)

Gott ist gut said:


> This is what I want under my MKV Jetta hood.
> BTW, watch the headers!


 i think we can gun that to 88 and travel back in time.


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## PanzerVW (Jan 9, 2003)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> head work isn't really needed. the 2.5L head is the best flowing head vw ever made and it can safely rev to 8K daily with nothing neede to be upgraded in the valve train. thats NOT saying it won't be needed to be upgrade if there cams and high comp ratio. but with no cams, no one knows yet if they are needed.
> 
> personally. i think cams, ITB's, full tuned exhaust on a stock motor could get 250whp
> but thats a educated guess because of the cam issues......


 ITB's would probably sound like SEX :thumbup:


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## motocaddy (Jul 12, 2007)

passat_98 said:


> this eg poster boy is only putting down 175whp


This is my wife's car and i can tell you, the 2.5 isn't fast at 175whp, 180whp (where we'll be for this season), 190whp (HEP/UM car) or 210whp (possible cam whp). It's a somewhat quick, very reliable and simply awesome sounding engine. If you want a fast 2.5, don't go NA. The development is just not there and costs quickly exceeds 2.5T kits on the market. 

With that said, we're extremely happy with the direction we went. IMO, there are only a few mkvs that rival us in the engine bay looks department and we're at 35-40whp over stock (baseline dyno'd). Both of those are pretty good for the amount of $ we've spent. 

The thing with the 2.5 is to have realistic expectations. Crossing the 200whp mark with this engine in NA form is an expensive endeavor. With the parts currently available, getting there is going to easily cost $4k+. I understand why you guys are frustrated, when 170whp can be had for $1.5k, but that's just the way it is.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Ive only spent about 1800-1900 so far and I have an engine capable of 194 whp. With another 1000 itll be over 200 so I gotta correct you there. If you added in all the motor mounts in the car to get more power to the ground and maybe a better clutch with lightweight flywheel then yeah Id agree with the 4000 but those things arent needed to make any power. Just saying.


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## darkk (Jun 22, 2006)

Gunbunny08 said:


> I think Eurojet is gonna convert all you NA guys once their turbo kit comes out!


First, let me say that I am in no way dissing EuroJet or their products. I have purchased a few nice items at a great price. I am also still happy with my purchases. BUT!!! I am so F*cking tired of hearing EuroJet is making a turbo kit that will blow every one else' away,it's gonna be cheap,it's gonna have a bazillion more horse power than any one else, it's gonna sound better it's gonna gonna gonna,would, shoulda, coulda. Will you clowns just please knock it off. Why do you constantly make a$$e$ of yourselves making comparisons of their turbo kit when they **DO NOT** have a turbo kit with software on the market???? Enough already!!! :facepalm:


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## DrivenAllDay (Mar 13, 2010)

darkk said:


> First, let me say that I am in no way dissing EuroJet or their products. I have purchased a few nice items at a great price. I am also still happy with my purchases. BUT!!! I am so F*cking tired of hearing EuroJet is making a turbo kit that will blow every one else' away,it's gonna be cheap,it's gonna have a bazillion more horse power than any one else, it's gonna sound better it's gonna gonna gonna,would, shoulda, coulda. Will you clowns just please knock it off. Why do you constantly make a$$e$ of yourselves making comparisons of their turbo kit when they **DO NOT** have a turbo kit with software on the market???? Enough already!!! :facepalm:


oh sh!!t,


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## KyleLaughs (Mar 23, 2010)

i saw some talk in this thread about manifold v ITBs, are there and ITBs out there for 2.5? or all they all custom, as always i assume eurojet would make the best.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

no itb's.
custom IF you want them, but NO ONE has made a setup yet, even custom


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## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

motocaddy said:


> This is my wife's car and i can tell you, the 2.5 isn't fast at 175whp, 180whp (where we'll be for this season), 190whp (HEP/UM car) or 210whp (possible cam whp). It's a somewhat quick, very reliable and simply awesome sounding engine. If you want a fast 2.5, don't go NA. The development is just not there and costs quickly exceeds 2.5T kits on the market.
> 
> With that said, we're extremely happy with the direction we went. IMO, there are only a few mkvs that rival us in the engine bay looks department and we're at 35-40whp over stock (baseline dyno'd). Both of those are pretty good for the amount of $ we've spent.
> 
> The thing with the 2.5 is to have realistic expectations. Crossing the 200whp mark with this engine in NA form is an expensive endeavor. With the parts currently available, getting there is going to easily cost $4k+. I understand why you guys are frustrated, when 170whp can be had for $1.5k, but that's just the way it is.


Lemme get that valve cover


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

one of the things holding me back on my turbo rabbit is lack of cams. If I rip into the engine I want to do everything at once and honestly I don't want to pay for a custom grind since super ridiculous cams don't play well with boost and what I need would likely be what comes out as an off the shelf cam. I will say product wise what I'm most interested in is a staged injector setup with return line that plays with the factory returnless fueling as the primary. I think it would be awesome to be able to maintain the ability to pass evap in most states yet have that extra fueling there to take it above and beyond the returnless limitations.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> no itb's.
> custom IF you want them, but NO ONE has made a setup yet, even custom


Josh
that engine from KMS is running ITB's. They are just not of the DBW kind.


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