# So, with the reveal of the Mk7 Golf R...



## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

Does this change anyone's mind about the S3? Only ask since it's the same powertrain, including the same Haldex most likely. And it'll give some the hatch they are going to miss.

http://www.vau-max.de/autoderwoche/...lf_7_r_-_unsere_sitzprobe_im_top-golf/id=3459


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Absolutely not. Even without XDS+, the S3 remains my choice. The Golf 7 is a bit awkward in design for me, and Golf 7 interior vs MQB A3 interior, the A3 interior appeals to me much, much more.

I also have no interest in a hatch; I much prefer the proportions of a sedan, especially when that sedan is the new A3/ S3. My wife has the vehicle with the hatch in our household. 

I bet there's also absolutely zero hope of magnetic suspension, drive select, LED headlamps, or B&O in the Golf R, too. Also, you're getting more warranty with the Audi, no? That's probably a negative point for some here who get worked up over the TD1 stuff. 

I do see a drive select derivative on the screen of the Golf R in your linked article, but I still imagine the US Golf R will get gimped in some capacity.


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## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

Me either, I have never liked the looks of any Golf R. 
I have never found the allure with any station wagons or any station wagon looking cars.

I like them on other people, just not for me. Much the same way I feel about tattoos.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

So on a scale of the new RS6 avant being a tramp stamp, where's the Golf R fall? :laugh:


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

Dan Halen said:


> So on a scale of the new RS6 avant being a tramp stamp, where's the Golf R fall? :laugh:


Tribal band around your bicep?


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

I'm fickle with this decision, yesterday when I saw the R and that it was the same power I got giddy and started to move to the Golf R... I woke up today moving back to the S3. I'm starting think the new Golf R looks awkward, and I do agree with you Dan that I'm willing to pay a little more for all the extras that they'll give us in an Audi version that they'd strip off the Golf R for the US market. :beer:


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## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> So on a scale of the new RS6 avant being a tramp stamp, where's the Golf R fall? :laugh:


You know those people that tattoo words on their fingers? Yeah you know the ones that look like they are drawn on with a pen instead of stenciled? You know those few that misspell the word? ....... yeah
Stuff like "Juge" on one hand and "Jury" on the other.
:laugh:


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

Cyncris said:


> You know those people that tattoo words on their fingers? Yeah you know the ones that look like they are drawn on with a pen instead of stenciled? You know those few that misspell the word? ....... yeah
> Stuff like "Juge" on one hand and "Jury" on the other.
> :laugh:


:laugh:


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## Pathfinder2041 (Sep 20, 2003)

Plus, won't the S3 be available as a 2014 model, and we wont see the MK VII Golf R until 2016?? The R models are on 4 year sales cycles, and you know how VoA loves tradition.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm sure many like myself who have previously owned VW products will shiver at recalling the stellar service provided and swiftly walk to the Audi dealer.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Cyncris said:


> You know those people that tattoo words on their fingers? Yeah you know the ones that look like they are drawn on with a pen instead of stenciled? You know those few that misspell the word? ....... yeah
> Stuff like "Juge" on one hand and "Jury" on the other.
> :laugh:


Yes, yes... 



Pathfinder2041 said:


> Plus, won't the S3 be available as a 2014 model, and we wont see the MK VII Golf R until 2016?? The R models are on 4 year sales cycles, and you know how VoA loves tradition.


I'm not sure that I believe the four-year cycle will hold true this time around, but it's probably going to be close. There's certainly truth to the statement that the S3 will be available before the Golf R- and probably by a year at the very least. The S3 is likely to be a MY15 car when it arrives sometime next year, though.



FractureCritical said:


> I'm sure many like myself who have previously owned VW products will shiver at recalling the stellar service provided and swiftly walk to the Audi dealer.


My VW dealer is my Audi dealer. :facepalm:

It remains to be seen whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. I've had decent history with the VW dealer, but they seem to be generally lackluster among my peers. They're in the process of separating Audi from VW and Porsche (they'll even have separate service departments), so I'm hopeful that they're going to "de-VW" the Audi experience. How that works out remains to be seen.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> Yes, yes...
> 
> It remains to be seen whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. I've had decent history with the VW dealer, but they seem to be generally lackluster among my peers. They're in the process of separating Audi from VW and Porsche (they'll even have separate service departments), so I'm hopeful that they're going to "de-VW" the Audi experience. How that works out remains to be seen.


Eek - a fate worse than death! Luckily the two Audi dealers in our area are both excellent and both are Audi only. Seriously, one of the things that has kept me away from another VW is the service departments at most of the local shops in my area. 

Both of my local Audi dealers (Bedford and Willoughby, formerly Fred Baker and Stoddard) have excellent service departments. Expensive - but good.


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

My only thing is the 10k-15k price jump, what are the differences to dictate this increase? Please help convince me as I'm a long time VW person (Both R32's) looking to step into the S3 (or RS3 if it comes to America) 

I did also own an Aviator Gray TT225 for a while which was fun.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

djdub said:


> My only thing is the 10k-15k price jump, what are the differences to dictate this increase? Please help convince me as I'm a long time VW person (Both R32's) looking to step into the S3 (or RS3 if it comes to America)
> 
> I did also own an Aviator Gray TT225 for a while which was fun.


We know a base S3 is (seemingly confidently) expected to check in around $39,000US. We also know a base Golf R is very, very unlikely to check in between $24,000US and $29,000US.

You'll likely see a $10,000 gap at the top end of both cars, but there are all kinds of trinkets and baubles you'll be able to spec on the S3 that won't be optional on the Golf R. If history repeats, the Golf R will pretty much be a no-option car. At that point, it's a rather lopsided comparison to get to the $10,000 gap.

I'm also pretty sure Audi is still doing a 4/50 warranty whereas VW... isn't. Then you've got what may be the use of lighter weight materials underpinning the S3 but not the Golf R- though I expect that the MQB economics will make their use more likely on the Golf R this time around.


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## Pathfinder2041 (Sep 20, 2003)

djdub said:


> My only thing is the 10k-15k price jump, what are the differences to dictate this increase? Please help convince me as I'm a long time VW person (Both R32's) looking to step into the S3 (or RS3 if it comes to America)
> 
> I did also own an Aviator Gray TT225 for a while which was fun.


I owned a MK V R32, and had a terrible experience with this car. No tuning path to speak of, only suspension and wheel mods that would actually affect the cars performance, autocrossing was fun but AWD put me in a category with STis Mitsu Evos, which I was not competitive with. MAJOR disappointment in the 1/4 mile and acceleration overall.... not to mention "Merican" programming for the DSG that slowed down shifts, and the car (British R32s at Sepod raceway were running high 13 seconds in the 1/4 with few mods, my car only went faster than 14.5 once, and I had intake/APR tuning/Eurojet Exhaust that sounded amazing)) . Got 22K in trade for a BMW 135i with M package and will never go back.

Car after BMW is a B7 S4 with TIP, Sprit Blue in color with Recaros... the car was owned by a family member, so I didn't have a choice on the Transmission. I bought the car with only 17K miles on it in September of last year, and this thing is amazing compared to the "R". If the "R" I bought new in 2008 had 9/10s or even 8/10s of the performance of the S4, I would have been a happy camper, and still be driving a now paid off R32.

The new S3 sedan will have nicer interior than the "R", the DSG will be programed to keep the engine in the power band, and from the looks of the video on the "Ring" will be very dynamic in it's performance envelope. Drive one and see.


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

I like the Golf R, its priced too high though........ if it was 30K I would be sold lol


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## Crocodile (May 21, 2009)

Dan Halen said:


> Absolutely not. Even without XDS+, the S3 remains my choice. The Golf 7 is a bit awkward in design for me, and Golf 7 interior vs MQB A3 interior, the A3 interior appeals to me much, much more.


I think you're absolutely right. The S3 in both Sedan and Sportback forms is a step above the Golf R. By the way, the S3 does HAVE XDS+ it just isn't called that. The mechanical layouts for both models will be all but identical, only the exterior design and interiors are fundamentally different.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Crocodile said:


> I think you're absolutely right. The S3 in both Sedan and Sportback forms is a step above the Golf R. By the way, the S3 does HAVE XDS+ it just isn't called that. The mechanical layouts for both models will be all but identical, only the exterior design and interiors are fundamentally different.


I see. I tried to do some quick digging before I posted that, but I couldn't find anything. I figured the S3 had to have something comparable, though.


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## cyberpmg (Nov 27, 2001)

Travis Grundke said:


> Eek - a fate worse than death! Luckily the two Audi dealers in our area are both excellent and both are Audi only. Seriously, one of the things that has kept me away from another VW is the service departments at most of the local shops in my area.
> 
> Both of my local Audi dealers (Bedford and Willoughby, formerly Fred Baker and Stoddard) have excellent service departments. Expensive - but good.


Yeah, I agree. Baker (now Bedford) has an excellent service crew. I was always taking my A4 there. Will likely go back there to check out the S3. I will say that the service experience dropped a bit when both dealers got bought out by the Penske Auto Group. Seems a little less personable, but still good places to go visit.


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## McDsvw (Oct 21, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> We know a base S3 is (seemingly confidently) expected to check in around $39,000US. We also know a base Golf R is very, very unlikely to check in between $24,000US and $29,000US.
> 
> You'll likely see a $10,000 gap at the top end of both cars, but there are all kinds of trinkets and baubles you'll be able to spec on the S3 that won't be optional on the Golf R. If history repeats, the Golf R will pretty much be a no-option car. At that point, it's a rather lopsided comparison to get to the $10,000 gap.
> 
> I'm also pretty sure Audi is still doing a 4/50 warranty whereas VW... isn't. Then you've got what may be the use of lighter weight materials underpinning the S3 but not the Golf R- though I expect that the MQB economics will make their use more likely on the Golf R this time around.


I hope you are right about the base S3. If I can get it with B&O and maybe even nav with rearview camera for 45, I would be one happy Audi customer!!


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

That makes two of us. I am anxious to see how the packaging falls out. I'm just damn anxious about the car in general, really.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> That makes two of us. I am anxious to see how the packaging falls out. I'm just damn anxious about the car in general, really.


makes 3 of us, if the pricing is crazy on the S3, i'll just drop down to the A3 S-line. The 3 things i want are B and O, Nav and Audi Side Assist. The driver assistance package would be nice, but i fear its gonna be pricey.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> We know a base S3 is (seemingly confidently) expected to check in around $39,000US. We also know a base Golf R is very, very unlikely to check in between $24,000US and $29,000US.
> 
> You'll likely see a $10,000 gap at the top end of both cars, but there are all kinds of trinkets and baubles you'll be able to spec on the S3 that won't be optional on the Golf R. If history repeats, the Golf R will pretty much be a no-option car. At that point, it's a rather lopsided comparison to get to the $10,000 gap.
> 
> I'm also pretty sure Audi is still doing a 4/50 warranty whereas VW... isn't. Then you've got what may be the use of lighter weight materials underpinning the S3 but not the Golf R- though I expect that the MQB economics will make their use more likely on the Golf R this time around.


I think the mk7 Golf R will be in the 32-37k range if the current mk6 is still a good reference. Except for pricing I think the rest of your analysis is dead on

US spec Golf R = GTI autobahn with AWD and more hp/tq (which, in general, is an awesome thing)
US spec S3 = all the bells and whistles that OUGHT to have in the Golf R, but won't.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Waterfan said:


> I think the mk7 Golf R will be in the 32-37k range if the current mk6 is still a good reference. Except for pricing I think the rest of your analysis is dead on
> 
> US spec Golf R = GTI autobahn with AWD and more hp/tq (which, in general, is an awesome thing)
> US spec S3 = all the bells and whistles that OUGHT to have in the Golf R, but won't.


I don't see where your pricing guess and my pricing guess vary. At $37,000 for a top-spec .:R, you're probably still looking at another $10,000 to get to the top-spec S3.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> I don't see where your pricing guess and my pricing guess vary. At $37,000 for a top-spec .:R, you're probably still looking at another $10,000 to get to the top-spec S3.


i misread your 'very unlikely' as 'very likely' 

lack of reading comprehension on my part - FAIL


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> I don't see where your pricing guess and my pricing guess vary. At $37,000 for a top-spec .:R, you're probably still looking at another $10,000 to get to the top-spec S3.


yeah if a top spec S3 is $47-50k, i think ill pass.


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## Baylorguy (Aug 18, 2012)

I think the assumptions of packages on the R (or lack thereof) are a bit premature. I am interested in the S3 (current owner of a loaded MK VI R) but am also enticed by the MK VII Golf R. VW already proved they are willing to put a lot of nice tech into the MK VII R, so I would not be surprised if the US gets better packages and options this time around. 

It really comes down to what your priorities are. I am more performance oriented than a "bells and whistles" guy. The RNS 315 Navigation on the R is simple and functional... but obviously no MMI. That is ok, because I like simple and functional  To me, I am getting virtually the same engine, transmission and performance as the new S3... for several thousand less... and I love hatchbacks.

*If* the MK VII R does not come with a DSG option, it will almost certainly push me to get a base S3. I think we can all agree both are going to be compelling cars, so again, it is all in what you are looking for in a car.


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

Loaded S3 will be $45k+ for sure. 
Go build an S-line right now, then add $5k for the real "S".


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## mike3141 (Feb 16, 1999)

AoA has taken the A3 off their site except for information on what's coming next year.


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## phospher5 (Jun 21, 2012)

mike3141 said:


> AoA has taken the A3 off their site except for information on what's coming next year.


interesting..... the Canadian site still has the a3 hatch up ... wonder how much stock they have to sell....


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

I will be weighing that decision when time comes......if there is no new TT. The cost difference is pretty big but in the case of the TTS, I got a more exclusive car with extensive use of aluminum that the Golf doesn't have. I like that. I think the S3 will have similar aluminum (maybe not as much). I do wonder which is going to be more exclusive?


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Pathfinder2041 said:


> ....The R models are on 4 year sales cycles, and you know how VoA loves tradition.


Where did you get that idea? A sales cycle?


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

Dan Halen said:


> Absolutely not. Even without XDS+, the S3 remains my choice. The Golf 7 is a bit awkward in design for me, and Golf 7 interior vs MQB A3 interior, the A3 interior appeals to me much, much more.


So the S3 will not have XDS+ but the Golf R will?

Also, I agree the S3 interior does appeal to me a little bit more but its an Audi, its supposed to be more luxurious. 

S3 vs Golf R, I'd pick the Golf R mainly due to price. But is we get the RS3, then I'll have to bypass both the S3 and R.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

DaLeadBull said:


> So the S3 will not have XDS+ but the Golf R will?
> 
> Also, I agree the S3 interior does appeal to me a little bit more but its an Audi, its supposed to be more luxurious.


According to Crocodile in a previous post in response to my comments, the S3 will have XDS+... it just hasn't really been mentioned as such. I'm indifferent on this at this point, really.

The S3 interior may and should be more luxurious, but that's not even what does it for me. It's really fairly spartan in design, and that's what makes the difference. If I could pin it to one thing, it's got to be the retractable screen. I also really like the old-school looking buttons above the climate control panel.


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## mookieblaylock (Sep 25, 2005)

Baylorguy said:


> *If* the MK VII R does not come with a DSG option, it will almost certainly push me to get a base S3. I think we can all agree both are going to be compelling cars, so again, it is all in what you are looking for in a car.


i'm kind of in that boat. The rich housewife ,aspiring junior executive audi image is a bit much so i would prefer the vw even though the s3 will probably be the superior car


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## VR6Nikopol (Jul 11, 2001)

FractureCritical said:


> I'm sure many like myself who have previously owned VW products will shiver at recalling the stellar service provided and swiftly walk to the Audi dealer.


All depends on personal experience. Here, it's completely the opposite. Everyone I've talked to just hate (and had a bad experience to talk about) the sole local Audi dealer.

For that reason alone I may choose the Golf R 7.

But if there is an RS3...


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## b-R-ad (Mar 17, 2012)

I have a current MKVI R and love it,. I was not crazy about the new design of the MKVII R until I saw the final release pictures. It looks better than I first thought.

That being said, I am leaning towards the S3 as my next car. The biggest drawback for me is the lack of manual (I can't believe how much I enjoy rowing through the gears in my R :laugh: ) and I love hatches.

I really like the refinement of the Audi though, so I am about 70/30 in favor of the S3 when the time comes...


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I guess I'll have to see the seven in the real world, 'cause at this point, I think your six looks worlds better. At least the Golf R front fascia on the seven cleans up the mess of a front bumper they put on the Golf/ GTI otherwise.

The rear of the seven just looks uninspired to me.


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

Dan Halen said:


> I guess I'll have to see the seven in the real world, 'cause at this point, I think your six looks worlds better. At least the Golf R front fascia on the seven cleans up the mess of a front bumper they put on the Golf/ GTI otherwise.
> 
> The rear of the seven just looks uninspired to me.


Well said. But the motor in the 7 is a gem. Much more efficient. And the intake system is improved.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

RyanA3 said:


> Well said. But the motor in the 7 is a gem. Much more efficient. And the intake system is improved.


Yeah, no doubt. There's no denying that the motor in the 2012/2013 Golf R is... recycled. :laugh:


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

I like the rear the least on both cars, but what really separates the two is the interior. The Audi interior is about perfect in my eyes, I'm surprised they were able to get it done this way in the year 2013. I'll take the VW seats over the "cobra head" styling of the Audi, though.


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