# how much with n/a



## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

Im just trying to widen my knowledge on the 2.5L but what can be done to the engine and how much power can you expect with out a turbo or Supercharger, 

-CAI
-exhaust
-SRI
-clearly a flash 

but what else is there?


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

That is pretty much the full list of mods that will give you a decent improvement and with a manual car you can expect around 210whp.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

lol whys everything cost so much =[ 

But 210 is the most youll get with out Forced induction ?


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

Not too much aftermarket support for our engines....sucks. 

I wish there was cams available for our cars. i heard C2 was testing some but didnt hear of any updates


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

yeah im not planing on doing it to my mk5 i want to get a mk2 gli and put a 2.5 in it and build that as a sleeper but seems that turbo may be the only way


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

well the mkv chassis is much heavier compared to the mk2. josh at NLS swapped a 2.5 into his rabbit.:beer:
a built 2.5l in a mk2 would be a screamer.

id love to swap a 2.5 in to an older vw. i would personally be content with swapping the new motor in and putting a short runner manifold and cams(one day) then leave it at that.


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## Teknojnky (Jun 1, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> That is pretty much the full list of mods that will give you a decent improvement and with a manual car you can expect around 210whp.


 
I keep seeing 200+ whp but nothing for torque. What's the average tq numbers with the same mods?

Sent with the information provided from an electronic device.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

and which say CAI would be suggested ive been leaning to the BSH but with being as low as i am my friend suggets doing a short ram intake instead but can i still get the same power from a short ram ? and say what exhaust exhaust me be personal due to sound but ive heard the TT exhaust and love the sound but its like 600-700$ lol


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Cherb32 said:


> Not too much aftermarket support for our engines....sucks.
> 
> I wish there was cams available for our cars. i heard C2 was testing some but didnt hear of any updates


C2 is no longer working on cams.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

daaa fukk whyyyy


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

teejaybee said:


> daaa fukk whyyyy


To expensive. 

I think there are some other companies working on them though. I think IE might be.


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

mldouthi said:


> To expensive.
> 
> I think there are some other companies working on them though. I think IE might be.


I hear DSR has a few cams..but I havnt called them yet to see if they have anything for 2.5. 

http://www.dynospotracing.com/


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Cherb32 said:


> I hear DSR has a few cams..but I havnt called them yet to see if they have anything for 2.5.
> 
> http://www.dynospotracing.com/


That would be awesome, but the 2.5 doesnt get much love from companies outside the one that post in here. 

I hope you prove me wrong.


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## cbs_24 (May 21, 2011)

teejaybee said:


> daaa fukk whyyyy



They were going to cost many thousands of dollars.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

You could probably do a built bottom end with high compression and get a port n polish plus some customized software. But even then you might not see that much more power, although I'm not nearly well versed enough to make an appropriate guess.


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## SocoJoe (Jul 4, 2009)

teejaybee said:


> yeah im not planing on doing it to my mk5 i want to get a mk2 gli and put a 2.5 in it and build that as a sleeper but seems that turbo may be the only way


Same idea I want to do :wave: :thumbup:


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

lessthanalex said:


> You could probably do a built bottom end with high compression and get a port n polish plus some customized software. But even then you might not see that much more power, although I'm not nearly well versed enough to make an appropriate guess.


Cams are still pretty much a must to make decent power with high comp. Any way you go NA, Cams are a key factor in bringing out the most power from the engine in the higher rpm range.


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

Ahhhhhhh yes... The cam discussion :laugh:


We did some research and development for those cams back a couple years ago and decided against it due to the sheer cost of each cam and the small demand we anticipated for them. It was going to cost so much that we were afraid people would be scared away, basically, so we decided against it. 

We love blazing trails in the scene (look at all we've done for the VR6, R32, and 2.5L Markets) but those software and hardware decisions had some demand behind them whereas the cams would have been a VERY expensive risk so we stuck with forced induction and came eventually came out with the SRI as well for the N/A guys :heart:

:thumbup:


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

I realize cams are pretty big for the top end, but what kind of gain would we be looking at doing high comp, valves, and port/polish?


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Ahhhhhhh yes... The cam discussion :laugh:
> 
> 
> We did some research and development for those cams back a couple years ago and decided against it due to the sheer cost of each cam and the small demand we anticipated for them. It was going to cost so much that we were afraid people would be scared away, basically, so we decided against it.
> ...


 
Called DSR and they pretty much said the exact same thing. Its way too expensive for the risk and people would not buy it because they would expect high gains based on the price. They tried multiple grinds and didnt get much HP. So they scrapped the idea. Said the best option is to stick with the bolt ons or go FI. A port and polish job wouldnt give you much gains either for the price. I guess they have tried everything also. I think we may be at the end of the road for N/A (for those that have everything else).  SRI would be the last step...


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

From the sounds of it IE is working on something for us... INA has posted about port and polish before if I'm not mistaken. I think that with a mild cam setup, supposing that is what IE has eluded to, coupled with high compression, rods, valves, port and polish, and SRI that this engine would be able to make some pretty decent numbers NA.


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

lessthanalex said:


> From the sounds of it IE is working on something for us... INA has posted about port and polish before if I'm not mistaken. I think that with a mild cam setup, supposing that is what IE has eluded to, coupled with high compression, rods, valves, port and polish, and SRI that this engine would be able to make some pretty decent numbers NA.


 I agree:thumbup: its gonna take a combination of things to see some real numbers. Sucks cause the other motors see a significant gain with just the use of a cam and nothing else. I guess it will all happen in due time. 

Im thinking IE's package may run around ~$5-6k respectively for everything (with SRI)? The cams may be the most expensive part. 

With that kind of price, youd be forced to go turbo with C2, unless you are a die hard N/A fan *shrug*


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

For me I would probably stick to NA. I don't really have any "good" justification for this other than that I want to. Even though it would cost much more to do a full NA build, i like that you could definitely do it in pieces, as opposed to a turbo build which requires a larger initial up front cost. Yes the turbo makes more power and all that, but how much power do I really need for this car?


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

I agree with that, if money was not an option you better believe Id be doin an all out NA build on my Rabbit. Anyone can slap a turbo kit on their car and be done with it but it takes alot more work and dedication to make alot of power while still staying NA. I also just like the feeling of having that raw power always on tap, not having to wait for it kick in like a turbo or sc. To me its a more fulfilling build to keep it all motor. Then again, it would still be fulfilling to add a turbo on after the fact and have a real screamer haha.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

Heres a question what tune would you guys go with im looking at the 

United Motors Stage 1 n/a 

only info they give is 

Typical gains 15-18 whp and over 20+ ft/lbs over OEM. (on 93 octane gasoline) and is 299$ 

now theres 

unitronic-chipped 

says 181hp-190lb/tq on 91 octane 

Engineered with Strict Industry Standards 
Extensively Tested Under Various Driving Conditions 
Volkswagen Factory Safety Limiters Retained 
Greatest Power and Torque Gains in the Industry, Guaranteed! 
Optimized Responsiveness and Drivability 
Optimized Smoothness and Driving Comfort 
Improved Fuel Efficiency 
Speed Governor Removed 
RPM Limiter Increased to 6500 
Idle RPM Raised to 750 
RPM Hang (REV Hang) Between Shifts Removed 


i plan on running a short ram intake with my car too just picking which one right now this is all going on a xmas list =]


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Go with C2 or UM, unitronic isn't really supporting the community any more. 

If you search about it you can get more details but that is the basics.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

DerekH said:


> Go with C2 or UM, unitronic isn't really supporting the community any more.
> 
> If you search about it you can get more details but that is the basics.


 x2 I have Unitronic and like it a lot but if you ever intend on going past stage 2 it does not appear as though they are interested in the 2.5L anymore. I plan on giving them a good hard push to give me support when I add SRI, but if/when that happens I'll make sure to post about it either way. :beer:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

tay272 said:


> I agree with that, if money was not an option you better believe Id be doin an all out NA build on my Rabbit. Anyone can slap a turbo kit on their car and be done with it but it takes alot more work and dedication to make alot of power while still staying NA. I also just like the feeling of having that raw power always on tap, not having to wait for it kick in like a turbo or* sc*. To me its a more fulfilling build to keep it all motor. Then again, it would still be fulfilling to add a turbo on after the fact and have a real screamer haha.


 Ive never felt a SC kick in, they are pretty much always on.  


Also what others have said and thygret will tell you, unitronic is not the way to go.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

haha my bad, yeah they are always on thats true. another reason id do a sc over a turbo any day. yeah they might not be as efficient n everything but i like the way they make power. and hearin that whine juust tops it all, especially if its a lysholm charger.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Id do an supercharger over a turbo because superchargers are cooler lol.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

wish this would stay on helping me =[ 


but so between C2 and UM ive been told to lean to UM 

I plan on doing CAI and exhaust ive been looking around for headers and testpipe to do a complete exhaust system and do a tune with it but should i get cai first then tune or does that matter?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

teejaybee said:


> wish this would stay on helping me =[
> 
> 
> but so between C2 and UM ive been told to lean to UM
> ...


 Sorry for the detour. 

C2 or UM, both will be able to help. Check to see who has closer local support. 

Definitely get the hardware before software. The tunes are also different if you only have a CAI vs a CAI and full exhaust.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

alright ive been looking at doing the usp test pipe and im in the air about the rest of it with catback i wanta sporty sound i love the sound of like 350z's/370z's also the g35 but i doubt ill get close to a sporty sound with this engine unless im wrong


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

teejaybee said:


> alright ive been looking at doing the usp test pipe and im in the air about the rest of it with catback i wanta sporty sound i love the sound of like 350z's/370z's also the g35 but i doubt ill get close to a sporty sound with this engine unless im wrong


 You are wrong  These engines sound mean with header, catless and aftermarket muffler. I love the sound, right up there with VR6. 

I dont know if they still have them, but RAI was having a sale on there test pipes 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5669785-R.A.I.-2.5-Test-Pipe-Sale 

and another thread with pictures and videos from someone that bought one. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5642036-RAI-Testpipe/page2&highlight=rai


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

These engines sound unreal with full exhaust (EJ header to AWE catback in my case). I ran Unitronic stage 2 software with the headers/high flow cat mated to stock catback for a year with no problems. Honestly you can probably do it in whatever order you choose and still get a decent benefit. I would recommend starting with the test pipe/headers before catback because the car is quite loud with the full setup. Headers/test pipe gives you a solid amount of roar under load but it not noticeable when cruising.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

yeah theres just the problem of finding ej headers lol since they stopped making them i saw another company makes headers for the 2.5 but cant seem to find it


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

teejaybee said:


> yeah theres just the problem of finding ej headers lol since they stopped making them i saw another company makes headers for the 2.5 but cant seem to find it


 http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ojet-Header-amp-Test-Pipe-PA&highlight=header 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...eader-for-2.5-motor-for-sale&highlight=header 

:wave:


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

yeah well i dont wanna buy now =P for xmas time for the old lady to get me for xmas gift haha


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

If you are plannin on gettin a header eventually, just remember neither of em are really compatible out of the box with any testpipe. With the EJ youd need a shop to fab you up a custom testpipe to make it fit right. With the EVO tho, alls you really need to do is chop of the top and then reweld it so that the bolt holes line up correctly. Even tho it costs way more, Id say the Evo is your best bet and is proven to make power. Some people actually lost power going with the EJ header. Just a heads up.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

hmmm well im gonna think about that i also thought about doing a usp testpipe and a catback and leaving the headers alone


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