# Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop.



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

Now its getting interesting. 
First of all, yes it is a conventional soft top. But its a small German 4 seat convertible at a similar price point. The top seal reliability and leakage issues should be considerably less with a old style soft top, so some might be more more comfortable with it.
Although the 1 series has been out since 2004 in hatchback form, the new hardtop coupe and convertible are supposed to debut in Geneva next month. US market cars are restricted to in-line sixes meaning a 230 hp 130i or a 306 hp twin turbo 135i. The hardtop is supposed to start at $27,400, the convertible probably $5000 more. Weight is around 3000 pounds for the hardtop, few hundred more for the convertible. Likely to be in dealerships in a year or slightly less.
The first convertible spy shots debuted 6 months ago. It seats 4 like the Eos. Its small, lightweight and compact (which is what SLK means on a Mercedes-Benz). Best of all, its rear wheel drive.








Yesterday, some fine fellow in the 2addicts forums took a test mule picture and heavily photo-shopped it. I think he did a rather good job cleaning it up, the rear bumper and taillights are probably the only inaccuracy, but not by much.








A flood of spy pics just hit over the weekend for the coupe version, this picture allows you to see proportions of the car in coupe form. The proportions remind me of my old E30, which was my favorite BMW.








The good - A proper RWD car with an in-line 6. BMW stays on the forefront of technology...Bluetooth, keyless start, and HD Radio are universally available across the BMW lineup as of 4/07. Also, ability to get a well equipped version WITHOUT being forced into leather seats. Availability of manual transmissions to those who want it. Lighter and better weight distribution compared to the Eos.
The Bad - BMW is doing strange things. No spare tire...run-flats only. Although you can install regular tires, you better have the ability to plug your own tire on-site if you go with normal tires. No dual-clutch automatic as yet, but they're working on it. I-drive control, instead of discreet controls, you have to navigate menus, but it will also have voice recognition. Here's the interior...the multi-function display is flipped down in the center of the dash.








Up in the air - you loose the sunroof and protection of the hardtop, but it may be more reliable and less labor intensive to own and maintain the soft top. Other strange stuff - no oil dipstick, oil level is checked on the instrument cluster only...some might find this more convenient, I'd rather have a redundant dipstick to be sure. 

Here's another decent guesstimation. The tail is probably a tad short.








So what do we think about this car as an Eos competitor?



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 9:30 AM 2-7-2007_


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## chris2.0tdsg (Nov 29, 2006)

I would say:
rear weel drive is a disadvantage over front wheel. I own a MX-5 now, and it might be fun sometimes, but it is better and safer to have fwd.
I would be curious to see if this really is a 4-seater. Knowing VW is generally more generous with space over BMW.
There are certainly some advantages you mention that are really ++ over the EOS.
I think the BMW will attract a different crowd.
chris


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Well, it looks like it should be a sharp looking car, it's a BMW, so it should live up to a reputation for reliability, and if they can actually bring it to market at a similar price point, I would say it definitely could qualify as genuine competition for those that don't want, or don't care about retractable hard tops.
Kevin


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## swordfish1 (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (just4fun)*

Not for me I'm afraid. A frind of mine has a 1 series and I'm not impressed. I did consider the 3 series and also the Audi A4, but the hardtop did it for me.......came very very close to getting the new A4 tho!!


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## GurnyGub (Nov 21, 2006)

Dave, 
Just like me. I nearly ordered the A4, and then wasn't happy about the leaks stories. All great so far though. First thought about the BMW windscreen swooping so far back, maybe you'd need krytox on your eyebrows to stop any squeakin'.


_Modified by GurnyGub at 10:28 AM 2-7-2007_


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

I don't see where this model is really going to be a big seller. I think if you have to have a BMW (and for many of these people it's about status, not substance), you will consider it, but I still think that if you want a true driving experience, which in most circles implies RWD, get a two seater. There are plenty of cheaper options.
Once you add 2 rear seats to the convertible equation, you're already taking a step away from the purist perspective. So to me, once you do so, you are giving up performance for convenience, and if convenience and practicality are factors, the hardtop will usually win out on safety, wind noise and comfort. The bigget drawback is cargo space.
Now if the Audi A4 Convertable came with a retractable hard top and Quatro... then you're talking no compromises


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## ehdg eos (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: (jgermuga)*

I too was seriously looking at the Audi A4 Cab. But then saw the EOS and the hard top of it made it more practical in my thinking. Though I really wish it had 4motion!


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## atlantanorth (Nov 7, 2006)

*EOS Cheaper to Insure than BMW*

Another thing to consider - insurance on the BMW is almost twice what it is on the Volkswagen EOS. I was told by my carrier that BMW brand cost the most to repair than any other make including Mercedes. I had BMW 325CIC prior to my EOS - it was expensive to maintain and insure.


_Modified by atlantanorth at 11:59 AM 2-7-2007_


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## bougy (Nov 21, 2006)

*Re: EOS Cheaper to Insure than BMW (atlantanorth)*

absolutely not the same category (I don't speak about the price here) and bangle design is definitely CRAP.
no thanks ...


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## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: EOS Cheaper to Insure than BMW (atlantanorth)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atlantanorth* »_Another thing to consider - insurance on the BMW is almost twice what it is on the Volkswagen EOS. I was told by my carrier that BMW brand cost the most to repair than any other make including Mercedes. I had BMW 325CIC prior to my EOS - it was expensive to maintain and insure.


I have an Eos and a 325ci and the BMW is comperable in rates. I would consider this ragtop to replace the 325 if the price comes in around 30K


_Modified by flheat at 1:30 PM 2-7-2007_


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: EOS Cheaper to Insure than BMW (atlantanorth)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atlantanorth* »_Another thing to consider - insurance on the BMW is almost twice what it is on the Volkswagen EOS. I was told by my carrier that BMW brand cost the most to repair than any other make including Mercedes. I had BMW 325CIC prior to my EOS - it was expensive to maintain and insure.

_Modified by atlantanorth at 11:59 AM 2-7-2007_

I would encourage you to re-evaluate your insurance carrier, principally because your current one is dishonest. State Farm (who is not cheap or kind) publishes tables on how cars are rated. Convertibles are typically (and counter intuitively, by the way) less expensive to insure. Here's how State Farm rates the entire BMW brand. 
http://www.statefarm.com/insur...w.asp
You can see the 3 series convertible gets a DTI (damage and theft index) rating of "B" which means your collision and comprehensive insurance rate is "somewhat less than average", you're effectively in the station wagon category with a "B" rating. Whereas the 3 series hardtop gets a DTI of "D" or insurance rates are "somewhat higher than average". Sounds like you're getting gouged to me. If you look at all 3 insurance categories, you'll see that a 3 series convertible is in fact, one of the cheapest/best rated cars to insure on the road.
Volkswagen historically gets hammered, the only VW with a DTI rating above average or "C" is a Touareg. Unfortunately the Eos is not on the ratings table yet. State Farm gives the Golf/GTI/Rabbit a DTI rating of "E" which means insurance charges are "significantly higher than average". You are in the same category as a BMW M3 if you're driving a Golf/GTI/Rabbit. Below is Volkswagens rating. Notice VW has virtually nothing with a LRI (liability rating) of "A" where virtually everything BMW makes gets a LRI rating of "A".
http://www.statefarm.com/insur...n.asp

Repairs and maintenence you mentioned are a similar story. People certianly like to create the illusion that a BMW is more expensive to repair. And if you go along with it, you'll certianly pay more, and that will be your reality. Or you can take that myth apart too. Just depends on how you approach repairs and maintenence...just depends on if you're willing to be taken for a ride because you're driving a BMW, or not.



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 2:00 PM 2-11-2007_


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## sydeos (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: (chris2.0tdsg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chris2.0tdsg* »_I would say:
rear weel drive is a disadvantage over front wheel. I own a MX-5 now, and it might be fun sometimes, but it is better and safer to have fwd.
chris

A front wheel drive car is about compromise not about excellence!
Firstly a tire has only so much grip to give from it's contact patch. If some of this is being used to provide motive traction that you can only use what is left to provide steering. While a low powered front wheel drive can is manageable without too many compromises most are not. We get around the problem by fitting power steering, wider tires, traction control or electronically limiting torque in lower gears or with steering lock on. Great cars have great steering which is either uncorrupted or feels as if it is and a front wheel drive car is compromised from the very beginning. Under-steer anyone?
Secondly a front wheel drive car is about packaging not design, you would put in a front mid-engine or mid-engine design if you were. But these vehicles don't provide a lot of interior space in a short wheelbase car and so are much less practical. It is not just about the weight it is about where it is distributed.
A case in point the R32 Golf is All Wheel Drive because it works better that way....... a V6 3.2 Eos is Front Wheel Drive..... why?
Because if you fit the All Wheel Drive Hardware under the car the trunk is shallower and if the trunk is shallower then the roof won't fit in...... compromise


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (sydeos)*

It appears some useful information has been released on the BMW 1 series coupe and convertible. Here's a copy and paste of a rather lengthy article from "Automotive News" subscription site....

"2 Series" Name Back & More - per Automotive News 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(May 2007) BMW: 1-Series arrives in 2008 (Automotive News)
WOODCLIFF LAKE, N.J. -- BMW's subcompact 1-Series will come to the United States next year, BMW of North America's top executive says. CEO Tom Purves says a two-door coupe will be on sale here in 2008. 
He declined to give a timetable. He says BMW has never backed away from bringing the 1 series to the United States despite exchange rate pressure. The weak dollar relative to the euro forces European importers to choose between higher prices and lower margins. "We can deal with it," Purves says. 
He would not deny that a convertible also will come to the United States.
For years, BMW would not say when it would launch the 1 series in the United States. A hatchback version went on sale in Europe in 2003. The five-door was freshened this year and shown at the Geneva auto show. The newest model features technologies such as regenerative braking and an automatic stop-start function that turns the engine off in situations such as red lights. Pricing isn't known, but the 1 series likely will start below the 3 series.
Background 
Development of entry BMW continues; -referred to a 1-Series (in Europe) with launch delayed in the U.S. market. Note that BMW's naming scheme for the U.S. has not been confirmed. Reports indicate that the new entry is being developed in sedan form (expected to be called 1-Series); with coupe and convertible bodystyles also being developed. Note that the coupe and convertible may be called 2-Series in the U.S. After its divestiture of Rover cars in March of 2000CY, BMW formally confirmed that it would develop its own line of cars, under the BMW badge, "for the upper end of the lower midsize segment". The car is positioned below the existing 3-Series Compact, and is priced lower. This new entry-level car for BMW, dubbed 1-series, will spawn a few body-style variants like its upper sibling 3-Series - it is intended to be a high volume seller in the sub-luxury class, aimed at high-selling Audi A3. At 4.23m, the 1-Series is 24 centimeters shorter than the 3-Series. However a relatively long wheelbase of 2.66m is required due to the longitudinal engine, rear drive setup. Although the wheelbase 1-Series is 8cm longer than the front-drive, transverse-engined Volkswagen Golf, rear passenger space is limited. Overall width is 1.75m and overall height is 1.42m. 
The 1-Series is aimed at a younger demographic seeking an upscale premium car, who are new to the BMW brand. The 1-Series 5D hatchback (E87) debuted at the 2004 Paris Motor Show and went on sale in September 2004CY. Following up the 5D Hatchback is a sporty 3D Hatchback model (E81), due in the 3rd Quarter of 2006CY for the European market. 
BMW originally backed away from a firm commitment to launch the 1-Series in the important U.S. market. Due to the strength of the EURO against the U.S. dollar, BMW's already thin margins on the 1-Series were seriously eroded in market projections. As a result, BMW originally chose to take a "wait and see" approach with the U.S. market. Originally, BMW had looked at a version of the European market 5D Hatchback for the U.S. market, but the plan was quickly shot down, as BMW has not had a good history with hatchback models (specifically the old 3-Series Compact hatch). A Sedan variant was in early development as the launch model for the U.S. market (where sedans are more popular than hatchbacks) - however BMW of North America wants all 1-Series and 1-Series derived vehicles for the U.S. market to be equipped with 6-cylinder powerplants. The Sedan was slated to join the 1-Series lineup in the 3rd Quarter of 2007CY in the European market, and following in the 4th Quarter for the U.S. Market. The Sedan version is hardly as important as the hatchbacks in Europe, and was not expected to generate large European sales. The Sedan was largely aimed at the U.S. market, where hatchbacks are low in popularity. As originally conceived, the 1-Series Sedan would actually be longer, and have a slightly longer wheelbase than its hatchback siblings. This slight increase in size was mainly aimed at the U.S. market consumer, who generally expects better legroom and overall interior space. 
However in Summer of 2005CY, BMW underwent a major strategy change, canceling plans for the Sedan and a Wagon model (based on the same larger wheelbase of the Sedan) that was also under early development. Numerous factors went into this decision. The major factor was that BMW felt that the larger size of the Sedan and Wagon could impact sales of the larger 3-Series Sedan and Wagon models - this was a concern shared by both BMW's North American Sales arm, as well as headquarters in Germany. In addition, a 1-Series Sedan was not seen as having strong sales potential in the European market, where small hatchbacks are significantly more popular.
BMW will continue to focus on development of a Coupe model (E82) as well as a Convertible (E88) that are both based on the 1-Series platform and mechanicals. In addition, an on-again, off-again strategy to rename the Coupe and Convertible models “2-Series” is now on-again. 
Part of the strategy with the naming of the models is to appeal to the deep heritage and popularity of the old BMW 2002 model 2 door models, particularly in the U.S. market. BMW believes that tapping this vein of popularity will help ensure a strong launch for an all-new smaller 2-Series range in the U.S. market. 
In addition, BMW was encouraged by the strong launch of the higher-end BMW 6-Series Coupe and Convertible models, and wishes to replicate the success in a smaller, lower priced model. Styling of both the Coupe and Convertible models were largely previewed by the BMW CS1 Convertible Concept that was first shown at the 2002 Geneva Motor Show. BMW’s “flame surfacing” theme, with concave and convex lines merging to produce a unique surface effect carries over to the 2-Series. In fact sources indicate that the front end of the Production version is little-changed, except for smaller, more stylistically rendered headlamps, and a flatter BMW kidney grille. The rear end is largely unchanged from the concept. 
In a shift of strategy, BMW will first launch the Convertible model first in the late Q1 2008CY, for the 2008MY in the U.S. Market, followed by the Coupe a few months later. The Convertible will feature a powered retractable cloth top. A folding hard top was initially investigated, but was quickly abandoned, due to cost and weight issues. The 2-Series will share powertrains with the European Market 1-Series range. The lineup will include a Valvetronic 24V Inline 6-cylinder powerplant that produces 265hp. Several months after launch, BMW will expand its petrol engine lineup at the top end with the addition of a Twin-Turbocharged 3.0L Direct Injection Inline 6-cylinder petrol powerplant. Although the same engine is also found in the 3-Series 335i model (producing 306PS), the engine in the 1-Series will reportedly be detuned to about 290PS. The engine features BMW's Piezo Petrol Direct Injection technology. BMW's long-rumored ZSG double-clutch transmission (similar to the Volkswagen group's DSG in operation), is likely to be optionally available with this engine as well. 
All models will come with Dynamic Stability Control with Dynamic Traction Control, 6 airbags, Brake Force Display function for tail lamps, and run-flat tires with Tire Puncture Warning System. Similar to the facelifted 1-Series, the new 2-Series makes use of 3 major fuel saving technologies. The first is Brake Energy Regeneration (iGR), which utilizes an Intelligent Alternator Control (IAC) and an Absorbent Glass Mat battery to recycle energy that was previously lost by the vehicle’s rolling wheels. The IAC reduces drag on the engine by engaging only when required to charge the battery – conventional alternators always draw power from the engine. The battery also charges on situations of engine over-run, such as under-braking or descending a hill. BMW claims a 3% fuel savings with iGR. The second system is an Automatic Start-Stop function, which is standard on most manual transmission models. The Start-Stop function automatically turns the engine off when the vehicle is stationary and the driver puts the car in neutral. When the clutch is engaged, the engine restarts. The function can also be manually switched off by the driver. 
The third system is Electric Power Steering, which utilizes an electric motor to provide power assistance. BMW claims a 90% energy savings vs. a conventional mechanical hydraulic steering system. The 2-Series suspension setup is shared with the 1-Series, including an aluminum front axle setup with McPherson struts, and a 5-link rear independent suspension. Typical BMW systems, such as Dynamic Stability Control, Dynamic Traction Control, Dynamic Brake Control and Electronic Differential Lock are expected to be standard equipment. The 2-Series will include front, front-side and side curtain airbag systems. The 2-Series' interior is largely expected to mimic that of the 1-Series, including a push button starter, and a spartan front dash layout, with seating capacity for 4 people. The iDrive knob-based controller system will be offered, as will be a Navigation system with pop up LCD color screen. Other equipment will include Sport Seats with width adjustment, Bluetooth capability, front & rear parking assist, and Bi-Xenon headlamps. An optional Keyless entry card system and a voice-activated radio and navigation system will also be available.
Inside, the 2-Series will also feature MP3 and USB stick compatibility, with audio tracks selectable by steering wheel controls or the iDrive system. The optional Adaptive Headlights have been improved with the addition of 2 cornering lights that illuminate the direction of travel between 22 and 40 mph. 
The 2-Series Coupe follows in the late Q2 of 2008CY, (2008MY). Engines will be shared with the Convertible model. As with the 1-Series, BMW plants to offer M-powered versions of the 2-Series range. For the 2-Series models, the M-versions are slated for the 1st Quarter of 2009CY (for the 2009MY). BMW’s original plan was to introduce an M-powered 2-Series with an Inline 6-Cylinder powerplant producing about 240PS. However, with the onslaught of high powered models such as Volkswagen’s R32 and upcoming R36 Golf models, BMW has readjusted their plan. BMW is currently developing a new version of the 3.0L Inline 6-Cylinder powerplant, that is currently testing in ranges from 315-345 HP.


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## justme97 (May 23, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

I was thinking of waiting for the 1-ragtop. It looks like it will be a great car and in some ways a (for me anyways) a direct competetor of the eos. But when I heard the eos 2.0t/sport was getting axed I forgot about the 1 and jumped on the eos. Why? The hardtop with sunroof in the eos is just too cool. I had a quality ragtop before the eos and it was great....no leakage whatsoever. But at 50k miles and a LOT of usage it was starting to show wear. And while quieter than a viynl ragtop it is still noiser than the eos hardtop when up and of course it's dark inside. 
In some ways the heart of the 1 is in a different place than the eos. The eos seems to want to pamper it's occupants while the 1 is a somewhat stripped down entry point to bmw style performance. I guess when it comes out people will have to make a choice about what is more important to them. 
ps-some shots of the 1 series interior I've seen look VERY nice. While the eos interior is classy and elegant the 1-series looks to have a little funkyness to it but in a well done way. Also it seems to have a nice nav design that comes out from the dash and stows away when not needed. Of course this could change with the final softtop release.


_Modified by justme97 at 9:45 PM 6-1-2007_


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## nikak (May 30, 2007)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Might be a competitor, there are significant differences though. First soft- top against hard- top, then no sunroof for the BMW. In my oppinion, it will attract buyers who want to have a BMW but cannot afford the 3-series convertible.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (nikak)*

Alright since the BMW 1 series was just brought up in the "Next Car" thread, lets continue this discussion now that there is more information available on the 1 series. For example, we know the 135i M-sport version has 6 piston front and 2 piston rear brake calipers. We know the US market offerings will be the 128i and 135i. 
Some recent convertible spy photos have surfaced that show the lines of the convertible top and window size. Also how the antennas will be handled (not as classy as the Eos by the way).








Interior photo too. So now what do we think about Eos vs. 1 series?


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## Dan_Eos (Jul 16, 2007)

Looking at the pictures of this, I'd say I like the Eos more. The Eos has more rounded features, inside and out, and I think the design of it makes it a cleaner look.
Peronally, I'm not really impressed with this BMW at all.


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_So now what do we think about Eos vs. 1 series?

I think it depends on what you want from a car. I like the hardtop on the Eos, and I like the usable back seat. My understanding is that even the hatchback version of the 1-series has very little rear seat space; I don't imagine that situation is any better in the convertible, and it's probably worse. As jgermuga said above, if it's not going to have a usable back seat, I'd rather have a two-seat roadster; there are a lot of nice choices in that class.
On the other hand, if you care most about performance, I understand the 1-series will be available with the same engine as the 335i.  I'm not sure if any of the roadsters in this price range approach that power level.

_Quote, originally posted by *sydeos* »_A front wheel drive car is about compromise not about excellence...Under-steer anyone?

I know that's the enthusiast line, but really all car designs are about compromise, convertibles doubly so.
Here's where I'm really going to diverge from most enthusiasts: understeer is GOOD. There's a reason most manufacturers bias their suspensions toward understeer. For the majority of drivers, the enthusiast holy grail of oversteer is the same as going into a spin, the same as losing control. The natural response is to lift off the throttle. For FWD/understeer, this is the right thing--the car comes back into line. For RWD/oversteer, it can make the situation worse. Modern stability control systems can keep this in check, but they do it by shutting down the oversteer, so you're back to where you started.
The kind of things listed above as FWD compromises to practicality--more interior space, lower cost, better fuel efficiency, better traction in bad weather--well, those are the things that are important to most people, and it's RWD that involves all the compromises.
I actually like FWD handling. I like the way it pulls through the corners. In a good FWD car, on public roads within the speed limits, I've never been near the limits where the disadvantages would bother me. If you're getting to those limits on public roads, you probably should go to jail. Pushing the limits on a track I might feel differently, but then that's one of the few places I don't think I'd want to be in a convertible.
Sorry for the speech, but I get a little tired of FWD cars being looked down on. For the majority of drivers, they are a great design, which is why they sell so well.
Personally, a lot of what I like about convertibles is that they are great cars to be in even when you're not moving fast, maybe especially then. You don't have to push the limits to have fun in them. And a four-seat convertible is about having a bunch of friends along to have fun with, and I'm really not interested in driving at the limits then. So, a 1-series convertible isn't that appealing to me, but it's nice that people have so many choices available now.


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## Fuzzybunny (Mar 14, 2007)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (flubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flubber* »_
Sorry for the speech, but I get a little tired of FWD cars being looked down on. For the majority of drivers, they are a great design, which is why they sell so well.
.

Well said Joe. I really like the way a FWD car pulls you through corners and the eos is great.
I did see a demo some time ago of a golf and a BMW 3 series. They both tried to negotiate a long line of cones swerving from left to right to get through the cones. After about five cones the golf broke away but the BMW carried on demonstrating the superior road holding of rear wheel drive. How realistic this is in practise in a propoer emergency situation is unclear as its a contrived test but the purist would argue its a reason for RWD over FWD.
Well give me an eos anytime over a 1 series BMW ragtop.


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## nikak (May 30, 2007)

I think this car will sell to people who want a BMW but cannot afford the 3-series convertible. Apart from the hardtop vs softtop issue, the sunroof is a great advantage for the Eos. The Audi A3 convertible, if it really comes, will be a more serious competitor for the Eos.


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

FWD vs RWD. I have driven both and both have issues. I have a friend who had a Benz (SLK32 AMG)that drove like it like it was on rails when roads were dry but couldn't make it up the apron of their garage when there was an inch of snow on the ground. I now have an Eos that does not track too well when I try to hurry from a stoplight. All cars have quirks because of some design issue. I would have bought the Eos regardless of which wheels supplied the motive power even AWD. We liked the car and it was in our price range. If the 1 series BMW had been available at the time and had a folding hardtop and we had liked the looks of the car, who knows. It is not what the car means to your friends, but what it means to you. When you plop your money down you better be sure that you are buying a car that meets your needs or fantasies.


_Modified by cb391 at 3:09 PM 8-11-2007_


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (Fuzzybunny)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fuzzybunny* »_I did see a demo some time ago of a golf and a BMW 3 series. They both tried to negotiate a long line of cones swerving from left to right to get through the cones. After about five cones the golf broke away but the BMW carried on demonstrating the superior road holding of rear wheel drive. How realistic this is in practise in a propoer emergency situation is unclear as its a contrived test but the purist would argue its a reason for RWD over FWD.

Leigh (sydeos) is correct above, that the tire adhesion limits are higher for RWD than for FWD, but I don't think that comes into play much with modern cars at normal driving speeds.
There's also a video of the Top Gear guys running a Smart car around their track, and it understeers right off the course, despite the fact that the Smart is rear engine, RWD. Nobody would suggest it understeers because it's RWD, but rather because it has tiny tires and is probably biased towards understeer. That setup is better suited for its purpose, which has nothing to do with running around a track. In general, tires probably make a bigger difference than FWD vs. RWD at normal speeds.
At the same time, a 1990s FWD Lotus Elan probably handles about as well as a modern RWD Mazda MX-5 of similar weight, so while the ultimate limits of RWD are higher, FWD can be very capable.
I also find the people who argue that RWD is better in an emergency are often the same people who complain about anti-lock brakes, traction control and stability control getting in the way, when those systems will probably make a much bigger difference in any real emergency.

_Quote, originally posted by *cb391* »_FWD vs RWD. I have driven both and both have issues.

That's really the bottom line. I'm not saying there's no reason to prefer RWD, I'm just trying to counter the common bias against FWD among enthusiasts. There are good points and bad points to both FWD and RWD. Which one is better depends on what you want from the car.


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## vwhoosier (Jun 24, 2007)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (flubber)*

Amen Brother flubber!
Looking at the interior view above it looks a little hard edged. Definitely more appeal for the youth crowd.
Alan


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (vwhoosier)*

First real 1 series cabrio pictures have surfaced. Any thoughts?



























_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 5:28 PM 9-29-2007_


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Not a bad looking car. Has equally disfunctional rear seats and a slice open style top. True it will run rings around an Eos( it's a BMW-it should) for about the same money. But I still like my Eos better. I could see people opting for the BMW 1series over a Mustang.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (cb391)*

More better pictures and writeup available here...
http://www.autospies.com/news/...21094/
There's a video too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...video Top can be raised and lowered at speeds up to 25 mph.
Here's an interesting quote about the top material...
"The standard softtop is available in either black or taupe cloth, but it is the optional Moonlight Black version which is unique to the 1 Series Convertible. Interwoven with fine shiny metallic fibers, this distinctive top produces a shimmery metallic silver appearance in sunlight."
The car looks pretty nice.












_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 5:27 PM 9-29-2007_


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## crandall58 (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Yes, this is one beautiful car. Yes, I could almost see myself in this. It looks like it might be a bit narrower than Eos, and maybe even a bit shorter.
But ya know, when I sold my '97 VW Cabrio, it, along with rag top convertibles, went into my rear view mirror for all time. I just couldn't imagine going back to all that road noise. 
There's always trade-offs in life, so I guess one man's gold is another man's poison.
My vote: No. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## vwhoosier (Jun 24, 2007)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

I agree, very nice looking car. Having not seen the EOS I would have considered a car like this. I also wondered about overall size. It looks a little smaller than the EOS. However, for me, the CSC roof trumps all.
When I decided to replace the old beater my choices were wide open. I did not have a small sporty car in mind....then I discovered this EOS with It's amazing roof and I was obsessed. Then I found this forum and it just got better. DSG, Great stereo system, peppy but practical. Needless to say, I soon learned where my local VW dealer was located ( ok it's only about 2 miles from My house. I Knew where it was, but had never been on the lot).
Four months later and I am still crazy about this car


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## wndctyboy (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Personally I'm not in love with BMW for couple of reasons. Price and interior design is not very inspiring to my taste. As performance yes but still does not compensate. Dashboard looks the same as 10 years ago, I don't like the steering wheel, it's very hard, I know some of you prefers it that way, I like the electromechanical steering on VW, very light. I can say that 328i and 335i may get my attention but the price not really. When you see a beemer on the street is just another beemer, when you see a EOS it's WOW!...what a nice sexy car.


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## BigFoot-74205 (Jan 26, 2006)

I think it looks nice with the top down. But I honestly have to admit that looks-wise I'm not a fan of most soft-top convertibles.


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## dcoz (Aug 10, 2007)

Hmm.. I struggled to get my family into the 335i convertible so I doubt we'd fit into a 135i.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*1-Series drop-top beauty*

Its hawt. BMW will have no problem selling this car. In fact they may have problems with (1) meeting demand and (2) cannibalization, depending on the price.

_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_First real 1 series cabrio pictures have surfaced. Any thoughts?
_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 5:28 PM 9-29-2007_


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## EosEnthusiastNB (Aug 9, 2006)

I don't like ragtops...enough said


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

It looks like a nicely fitted softtop. The e46 BMW tops look too squared-off to me, like a pasted on afterthought, especially compared to the beautiful tailoring on the Audi A4 tops. This 1-series top looks much better than the e46 tops.
No seat-integrated seatbelts? I always thought that was a nice feature of BMW convertibles. I wonder why they dropped it for this car. Maybe a sign they don't really expect anyone to get into the back seat?


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## mconfer (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: Eos Vs. the New BMW 1 series convertible softtop. (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

I love it! I will be in the market for a 2010 model and hope they'll have a retractable hard-top roof by then...with a sunroof! I'm dreaming again. If not, I'm thinking the soft top will be okay. I'd love to see them come out with a separate hard top again. I had an '88 325iC that had one available...couldn't afford it then.
I'm now driving a 2007 328I and assume the handling will be similar.
I'm not crazy about run flat tires that only get 20,000 miles, though. Can't they make them last longer? At least EOS has reasonable options for radials.


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: 1-Series drop-top beauty (liquid stereo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquid stereo* »_Its hawt. BMW will have no problem selling this car. In fact they may have problems with (1) meeting demand and (2) cannibalization, depending on the price.


Cmon, it's a chick car, tha eliminates half the buyers.








JK, I too think this thing will sell like crazy in both the sedan and convertable models. If it were on the market when I was looking, I would have considered it, but I like the idea that I can put the top up when my 14 month old is in the car. 
I guess the hard top does necessarily mean the EOS is safer, but I am thinking when the top is locked into place, the rigid roof is going to provide more protection than a soft top. It's be interesting to see how well it fars in safety. Anyone know if it will have the roll bars like the Eos?


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: 1-Series drop-top beauty (jgermuga)*

Yes, it does have pop up roll bars behind the rear headrests.


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## chewym (Jun 21, 2006)

I imagine the rear and the whole inteiror is tiny.


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