# All new brakes, but hard to brake???



## trash2treasure (Jun 18, 2012)

New rotors and pads, reusing old calipers. just got finished with new brakes shoes, springs, wheel bearings & drums, tried to bleed rear brakes but fluid only dribbled out each time so gave up. took it for a drive and have a firm brake pedal but its hard to brake.. Master cylinder is good and only a year old

All help appreciated!


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## 91B3DUB (Jul 1, 2010)

get a bleeder you have air in the system and sounds like you are going to need one.


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## trash2treasure (Jun 18, 2012)

91B3DUB said:


> get a bleeder you have air in the system and sounds like you are going to need one.


Yeah i picked one up today but it didnt work to well, the adapters that fit on the bleeder screw would only work if i shoved over the entire screw but then im not able to fit a wrench on it to crack it open. and it wouldnt work manually for some reason, the brake pedal would take forever to get firm and once it did and i cracked open the bleeder screw it just dribbled out. any ideas? someone else said it could be the booster


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## Gomboult (Aug 22, 2013)

Yeah, you're leaning in the right direction. Often a hard brake pedal and lack of stopping power means a booster issue, either the booster itself or the vacuum to it.

As for the non-producing bleeder valve, did you bleed in this order?

1. Passenger Rear
2. Driver Rear
3. Passenger Front
4. Drivers Rear

When I do a brake service, I don't use speed bleeders or vacuums and bleed my brake system by myself using the tube-jar method. Funnily enough, there's often one bleed valve that doesn't want to produce, but after a couple open/close pump-pump open/close cycles it'll start flowing.

Let us know what it turns out to be.



trash2treasure said:


> Yeah i picked one up today but it didnt work to well, the adapters that fit on the bleeder screw would only work if i shoved over the entire screw but then im not able to fit a wrench on it to crack it open. and it wouldnt work manually for some reason, the brake pedal would take forever to get firm and once it did and i cracked open the bleeder screw it just dribbled out. any ideas? someone else said it could be the booster


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## Bx V-dubber (Dec 17, 2010)

I'd go with vacuum boost issue on this one.:beer:


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## Eric D (Feb 16, 1999)

2.0 slow with non ABS have a rear prop valve that must be pulled open to properly bleed the rear brakes.
Or if you have a pressure bleeder that attaches directly to the reservoir, you can do it with pressure (it will force the valve open).
In about 5 min. you are done bleeding all 4 brakes.

GET A BENTLEY MANUAL ASAP!!!!!!!

Pic sourced from the web, thank you Charlotte.


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## trash2treasure (Jun 18, 2012)

Eric D said:


> 2.0 slow with non ABS have a rear prop valve that must be pulled open to properly bleed the rear brakes.
> Or if you have a pressure bleeder that attaches directly to the reservoir, you can do it with pressure (it will force the valve open).
> In about 5 min. you are done bleeding all 4 brakes.
> 
> ...


Ahhh i wonder if that'll help at all. I have a bentley and have read the bleeding brakes section a few times and did what it said for manually bleeding brakes. maybe i should try a pressure bleeder that connects to the resevoir. know anywhere i could fine one of those at?

Oh yeah and i attempted to bleed the front calipers today thinking it might do something and the same thing happend it just drizzled out.
Im starting to think if it has anything to do with me compressing the caliper pistons without opening the bleeder screw when i did the pads and maybe debris in the old brake fluid stopped up the brake line somewhere?? but the brakes semi-work so brake fluid is getting to the drums and discs


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## trash2treasure (Jun 18, 2012)

Bx V-dubber said:


> I'd go with vacuum boost issue on this one.:beer:


Thats what a few others told me. i was hoping i wouldnt have to replace the booster but i just might


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## Elwood (Aug 10, 2001)

Stop bleeding the brakes. If you had air in the lines, the pedal would be soft, not hard. Check the vacuum line running from the intake to the booster. If this just happened, you might have broken a fitting or knocked it loose or something.


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## trash2treasure (Jun 18, 2012)

Today I decided to just give up and buy a motive power bleeder and see if that can make my life easier. Its coming in tomorrow I'll see what happens

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## trash2treasure (Jun 18, 2012)

I got the motive power bleeder and i was finally able to bleed the brakes. But my brake pedal still feels the same, its somewhat low and stops the car but not like new brakes should. Im pretty sure my MC is good i replaced it last year and the pedal felt like that even after the new MC so i figures i needed new brakes but its still the same. Any ideas what it could be?


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## Elwood (Aug 10, 2001)

trash2treasure said:


> I got the motive power bleeder and i was finally able to bleed the brakes. But my brake pedal still feels the same, its somewhat low and stops the car but not like new brakes should. Im pretty sure my MC is good i replaced it last year and the pedal felt like that even after the new MC so i figures i needed new brakes but its still the same. Any ideas what it could be?


Told you. Check your booster and the vacuum line that feeds it.


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## trash2treasure (Jun 18, 2012)

Elwood said:


> Told you. Check your booster and the vacuum line that feeds it.


yeah guess i should of checked that first, just been lazy with the cold weather moving in. I'll check tomorrow and post back


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## crazyquik22023 (Jun 17, 2013)

Elwood said:


> Stop bleeding the brakes. If you had air in the lines, the pedal would be soft, not hard. Check the vacuum line running from the intake to the booster. If this just happened, you might have broken a fitting or knocked it loose or something.


What he said


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## trash2treasure (Jun 18, 2012)

I checked the booster line and its in good condition, no cracking or anything. But wouldnt a bad booster cause a firm pedal and little braking? that was my problem at first but after bleeding brakes its a low pedal and not much braking power like the car has always been. did i not bleed the system enough? i used 3/4 of a quart of brake fluid. or is it possible i just need to try new calipers? i have no idea how old they are


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## Elwood (Aug 10, 2001)

When you put new shoes in the back, did you adjust them so that they were close to the drums? If not, you're using all your pedal travel just moving the shoes to make contact with the drums. Do you have a maintenance manual for the car?


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## trash2treasure (Jun 18, 2012)

Elwood said:


> When you put new shoes in the back, did you adjust them so that they were close to the drums? If not, you're using all your pedal travel just moving the shoes to make contact with the drums. Do you have a maintenance manual for the car?


No i dont think but yeah i have a bentley. i followed dan reed's diy on rear drums http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/campingart/jettatech/reardrum/index.htm
I thought the shoes were self adjusting with the adjusting wedge


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## Elwood (Aug 10, 2001)

Well, the automatic adjustment isn't working. You need to figure out Why.


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## trash2treasure (Jun 18, 2012)

Im about to take off the drums to paint them anyways so while their off i'll look and make sure everything is correct


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## Gomboult (Aug 22, 2013)

How do you know it is just the rears acting up?

And not to bleed it to death, but are you loosing fluid anywhere? Going from a hard pedal to soft pedal without stopping power in either is the so-called twist.

I would bleed it, again. Make certain all corners are adjusted and lubricated. See if the hard pedal returns. What a mystery.


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## trash2treasure (Jun 18, 2012)

Gomboult said:


> How do you know it is just the rears acting up?
> 
> And not to bleed it to death, but are you loosing fluid anywhere? Going from a hard pedal to soft pedal without stopping power in either is the so-called twist.
> 
> I would bleed it, again. Make certain all corners are adjusted and lubricated. See if the hard pedal returns. What a mystery.


I really dont know if its just the rear brakes lol. im so stumped man.. i had a thought today that it could maybe be the caliper pistons not extending fully to push the pads down? does that sound likely? im not sure if they've been replaced or not, if not they have 160k on them


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## Gomboult (Aug 22, 2013)

The calipers not fully extending is easily checked by simply pulling them and seeing if they are indeed actually extending. I have my doubts that is the issue, but you can check. It's just time and effort. More likely, you've got air in the system now, hence the soft pedal. That, in combination with the previous hard pedal (booster issue) only confuses your problem. Eliminate one thing at a time.



trash2treasure said:


> I really dont know if its just the rear brakes lol. im so stumped man.. i had a thought today that it could maybe be the caliper pistons not extending fully to push the pads down? does that sound likely? im not sure if they've been replaced or not, if not they have 160k on them


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## trash2treasure (Jun 18, 2012)

Gomboult said:


> The calipers not fully extending is easily checked by simply pulling them and seeing if they are indeed actually extending. I have my doubts that is the issue, but you can check. It's just time and effort. More likely, you've got air in the system now, hence the soft pedal. That, in combination with the previous hard pedal (booster issue) only confuses your problem. Eliminate one thing at a time.


I was driving today and the pedal was firm again.. and still doesnt brake too well. my guess is the booster is on its way out. guess im gonna go ahead and replace the booster and bleed the entire brake system. got nothing to lose at this point, all i want is a nice firm solid brake feel like the way it should be! thank for your help alot man i appreciate it i'll let u know what happens


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## Elwood (Aug 10, 2001)

I'm not sure if I understand the problem or not. Either you have a lot of air in the system causing all the pedal travel or you have a mechanical problem. You said you replaced the master cylinder and it can be a real bugger to bleed those. What I don't understand is that you replaced everything and there was/is no change in the brakes.


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