# Heater Hose Assembly Leak?



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Anyone experience a coolant leak at the hose assembly on their Routan yet? Apparently it was a common leak on the '08 Chrysler/Dodge minivans (both 3.8L and 4.0L engines) at the Y-fitting where the heater hose diverts front and rear heater hoses. Very common problem on Chryco's in prior generations too. Mine blew over the weekend as I was about to turn onto the interstate. So I instead drove to the next light (watching temp gauge closely), turned left into the VW dealership (how convenient!) and left it there. Steam coming out of the hood, opened the hood and there was coolant everywhere in the engine bay. Will find out tomorrow how much this will set me back. Knowing VW dealerships, I'm pessimistically expecting a $500 or $1000 repair estimate (in which case I'll have a tow truck take it elsewhere).

I first found evidence of a slow leak a few weeks ago after noticing some evaporated coolant splatter under the hood. At the time, I inquired with my independent mechanic and he called the Dodge dealer and said it was a $300+ part, dealer-only. I topped up coolant a time or two since then (not much at all) and was planning to have it taken care of at the upcoming 60k mile service. Didn't make it that far though.

Did some 'research' at the Chrysler minivans and Dodge forums sites, and everything there seems to support it being a common problem. Several people there reporting it as a $300 dealer-only part too. Same as my independent mechanic said a few weeks ago. But then some other folks apparently found the part for $90, $120, and $186. Problem is I have the Dodge part number (04677603ak) but can't find the corresponding VW part number. Anyone know?

Here are the two on-point threads I found:
http://dodgeforum.com/forum/dodge-caravan/275625-2008-grand-caravan-coolant-leak-2.html

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/22514-Supposedly-I-have-a-leak/page2


Just trying to get prepared for a talk with the dealership tomorrow. Would love to know what other VW dealerships are quoting for it online for comparison's sake, but for life of me I can't find it and the Dodge part number of course doesn't correspond to any VW part number.


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Seems like it might be VW part# 7B0121086B (old part number ended in A), which would be $90-ish.

If I'm reading things right, it appears to be this VW Part:
http://www.jimellisvwparts.com/prod...ERSCHLAUCH-WASSERROHR/5270145/7B0121086B.html

Which is the same as the Dodge/Chrysler part number I posted earlier 04677603AK which is $94:
http://www.factorychryslerparts.com...ith-[HBB]-Up-To-12308/4316205/04677603AK.html

If it's the right part for this:


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## vdubtech398 (Jul 19, 2007)

Ive done a bunch of these. But if i remember right I was getting the part from the dodge dealer. I dont think VW has its own part number/hose. I think it is a dodge only part. I could be wrong. I think the ones i did were like $90-$150. Pretty easy to do.


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Yes, about $90 part. It lists for $108, but my dealership was selling it for $90. The local Chrysler/Dodge dealership had it for $94. And the VW part# that I posted earlier is accurate: 7B0-121-086-A (my dealership put a -A on instead of the -B that is also available...or at least that's how the invoice reads). There was another $231 in other supplies (coolant) and labor. And then $19 in tax and fees. $340 out the door. 

Which leads to another question: does anyone "fix" anything anymore, or are we just in a R&R world now? I was in a pinch in that I blew a coolant leak and didn't have the luxury of time to research everything. But it was just the Y-diverter that was leaking (circled in red in my earlier post), but rather than "fix" that they replaced the entire assembly. From reading on the Chrysler minivan and Dodge Forum web-sites, the Y-diverter is a $15 part (after-market) and replacing that and the two hoses that stem off of it with new hose clamps is less than $50 in parts total. And supposedly replacing the whole assembly adds a ton of labor to just replacing the Y-diverter, hoses, and clamps. But the "service adviser" at dealerships looks at their computer screen and say the whole assembly has to be replaced. WTF!? I could understand paying a little extra in parts to save on labor, or vice versa, but almost doubling the parts cost and also doubling the labor cost?... Doesn't make any sense (except to the VWoA bean-counters, of course).


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## vdubtech398 (Jul 19, 2007)

If i remember correctly the Y part of the assembly is a hard plastic that is molded over a rubber hose. I am pretty sure you cannot seperate the two pieces. that is why the whole assmebly needs replacement. Or at least I dont think so i will have to double check when I get back to work


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

vdubtech398 said:


> If i remember correctly the Y part of the assembly is a hard plastic that is molded over a rubber hose. I am pretty sure you cannot seperate the two pieces. that is why the whole assmebly needs replacement. Or at least I dont think so i will have to double check when I get back to work


 Sounds like that's the case. I recall someone in those other threads I posted to saying that it was easier/cheaper on labor to just cut out the Y-diverter using snips and cutting through the hose, and just replace the Y-diverter. Then put on new hoses and clamps for a few bucks to replace what you cut through, rather than go through the labor of replacing that entire assembly with the pipes, etc. 

Actually, IIRC it was the guy who took the picture I linked to in my second post. I think he bought the whole assembly but just cut out the Y-diverter and replaced that rather than the entire assembly. If it was a DIY job, I could see that approach being easier if you don't have a lift at home.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

If you look at the piece(I checked our 2010 4.0) and were to buy the complete assembly you could just un-do the clamp off the water neck and then the other 2 clamps that go to the hard lines and then the other two clamps. I think you could probably just do the complete job with a pair of pliers. Why the hell would anyone even the dealer replace the whole she-bang-a-bang, when you can do just that. Heck that is a 45 minute job, it's not like the hard lines are old and brittle. It's also a bit stupid that they sell you everything including the hard lines. :screwy::banghead::banghead: Take a good look at it, it's such a gravy job. 

I don't trust anyone, not even myself sometimes, but as for the next guy going to the dealer to have the job done I'd mark those aluminum tubes to see if they actually are replacing them. I'm not knocking the dealers OR the techs, but if the tech is on flat rate they know all the little cheats to get the job done under time, but properly repaired. So if the job pays 3 hours and he can swap just the rubber hoses in say 45 minutes, cause he knows the hard lines are still good. He just shaved 2 hours 15 minutes and can now go start his next repair. My buddies on flat rate use to find all the shortcuts on certain GM vehicles, then his service writer who was always good in directing the correct repair to the correct tech was actually making his guys a good rate, they just needed to hustle for their paycheck versus stressing over whether they could finish in time or were they going to lose money.


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## vdubtech398 (Jul 19, 2007)

Its all buisness, cant knock a flat rate tech for being good at his job. I can do a Tbelt job in an hour but I get paid 5. Should I only get paid an hour? I have dont this job with out replaceing the metal pipes. Cause like you said there arent brittle or worn. But only charge an hour not 3 and maybe .5 labor.


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## jtackers (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanks for the post, thought that was the part on mine that is leaking, now I'm sure. Seems like you should be able to order just the splitter and bonded hoses as an assembly, but I guess they figure if one part is going best to replace all. Easy enough job, but having to replace the metal tubes seems wasteful. It is probably the same assembly they use in the factory and didn't want to break it down for replacement part inventory. 

Looks like the set screws in the plastic collars are causing the failure, seems like it should be a recall item. 

Thanks also for part numbers, made search much easier!


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

If anyone has their old leaky one in one piece please PM me. I'd be interested in seeing one to possibly produce just the "y" out of aluminum and then offer them here for sale at hopefully a lower cost than the complete assembly and then all you need to do is get the proper hose clamps and you won't need to waste the time or money on the whole deal. So please let me know, this is just a feeler so I need to have one so I can measure it, CAD it and then get it quoted. I'm already looking at lathe time and TIG welding time, but I think if I can get 25 made at a time the cost will be down. Thanks


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

There are some newer posts on the dodgeforum link I posted in the OP back in May. Some as recent as last week and throughout last month. See page 3 and bottom of page 2. It includes some part numbers at a couple different stores. (Post #28 is great.) The Y-fittings posted in that thread are plastic though, but I bet it might be cheaper to buy one of those and take it to a plumbing supply house and find a pre-fab metal Y that matches it, versus CAD-ing it and having one made. Just a thought. Or for $15 in parts and an hour of labor, just go with plastic and see how far it takes you. 

I'm $350 down already, so I'm not looking for backup parts for this fix in the near-term. I mean, it's Chrsyler, so that repair should get me another 3 years or so, right? I do wish I had requested the old parts from the VW dealership, but alas that wasn't on the top of my mind at the time.


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

BTW '58, that wasn't meant to sound unappreciative. Really do appreciate your dedication and effort and willingness to share it all to make everyone else's lives here easier. Thanks for that.


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## georgef61 (May 16, 2011)

58kafer,

I replaced my "Y" with the one in the following photo:










I can't send you my old one because I want to keep it as a spare (I think it was leaking at the clamps but I need to pressure test it to be sure). To help you out I created a drawing of the old one. 

Here it is:









As you can see from the differences in the two parts, I don't think the dimension are too critical.

Let me know if there is any other data you need.

George


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

georgef61 said:


> 58kafer,
> 
> I replaced my "Y" with the one in the following photo:
> 
> ...


Very cool! Did the hoses fit tightly on the one you used? Thanks for that drawing. I'll run it past my father in law to see what the manufacturing cost will be, then I'll run it past the welder to see what his cost will be. Only thing that will kill the cost is the fixture I need to have made to get it welded. I guess you do engineering for a living?


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## georgef61 (May 16, 2011)

58kafer said:


> Did the hoses fit tightly on the one you used?


I would say it was a snug fit, unfortunately I didn't check the diameters of the ends before I installed it, but I believe they were smaller than the original. The original is a tight fit in the 5/8" heater hose.




58kafer said:


> I guess you do engineering for a living?


Your guess is correct.

George


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## georgef61 (May 16, 2011)

Here are some aftermarket plastic "Y"s that are designed to be used for heater hoses:

1. Murray part number 84757 (available at O'Reilly Auto Parts)
2. ACDelco part number 15-31767 (available at RockAuto.com)
3. GM part number 88918449 which has been superseded by 19193809 (available at your local GM dealer)
4. Four Seasons part number 84757 (available at Summit Racing)

From the pictures I have found, they all appear to be the same.

Note, I listed the "available at" above for reference, there are many other places they can be purchased, including eBay and Amazon.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Just had ours replaced under warranty!!!!!!!!!!!! Well it was covered under warranty but we were just out of warranty. I had mentioned twice about smelling antifreeze and when we went in for the 36K check up I mentioned it to the service writer that I could see some antifreeze drips on the top of he trans and felt the"Y" and it was wet. Naturally it was dry when they had it--I checked it before we dropped it off and it was dry. But 2 thousand miles later it had leaked real good on top of the trans. Made the phone call, dropped it off, they checked it, picked it up(they had to order it), went back two days later, dropped it off, then picked it up again all fixed up for free. I did notice that my dealer only switched the rubber hoses and the "Y" as an assembly.

So, now I'll lean on my father in law to quote me for making them from aluminum. If I do make them I'll be offering them up for sale on here. I'd like to come in far below what the entire assembly would cost from the dealer, I'm just not sure what quantity that will be at. I don't want to make 200 of them just to get the price right. 

So the moral of the story is mention the smell of antifreeze early and possibly your dealer will cover it under warranty. I'm not sure why they wouldn't, I'm sure it gets charged back to Chryco. Again my dealer has came through on top!


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## shilkdaddy (Oct 14, 2012)

*fix questions*

so I just replaced that pesky y fitting with the one from O'reillys. I used 3/4" heater hose to replace all of the connected hoses. Let me be clear... I am not a mechanic. That being said, while taking a test drive around town for about 45min to 1 hour running errands, the temperature stayed at or around 200 degrees. It did venture up to about 205 and then went down almost immediately. My questions, is 3/4" heater hose acceptable in this application? It seemed to fit the connections a little loose but so far no leaks. Second, is it normal for the temperature to go over 200 and then go back down quickly? I live in the bay area of California so ambient temperature is not really a factor I would assume. Thank you to any and all who reply and also the above posters.


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## rubikp (Dec 29, 2010)

*Thank you everyone!*

Thank you everyone! I fixed it myself! Worked just fine. I got the part (1. Murray part number 84757 (available at O'Reilly Auto Parts)). Thank you, thank you, thank you!


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## Petro73 (Feb 12, 2013)

*Update*

Hey rubikp, how's that replacement part treating you? I just came across the same problem and I am hoping for some good news. Thanks in advance!


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## routan2010se (Jun 17, 2013)

58kafer said:


> Just had ours replaced under warranty!!!!!!!!!!!! Well it was covered under warranty but we were just out of warranty. I had mentioned twice about smelling antifreeze and when we went in for the 36K check up I mentioned it to the service writer that I could see some antifreeze drips on the top of he trans and felt the"Y" and it was wet. Naturally it was dry when they had it--I checked it before we dropped it off and it was dry. But 2 thousand miles later it had leaked real good on top of the trans. Made the phone call, dropped it off, they checked it, picked it up(they had to order it), went back two days later, dropped it off, then picked it up again all fixed up for free. I did notice that my dealer only switched the rubber hoses and the "Y" as an assembly.
> 
> So, now I'll lean on my father in law to quote me for making them from aluminum. If I do make them I'll be offering them up for sale on here. I'd like to come in far below what the entire assembly would cost from the dealer, I'm just not sure what quantity that will be at. I don't want to make 200 of them just to get the price right.
> 
> So the moral of the story is mention the smell of antifreeze early and possibly your dealer will cover it under warranty. I'm not sure why they wouldn't, I'm sure it gets charged back to Chryco. Again my dealer has came through on top!


Did you ever fab these? I know the part will fail again...


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## paf (Dec 6, 2010)

weeeeellllll... hello there... what have we got here?










...and...










I am not a trained mechanical engineer, but I can state with confidence that the part s under stress from engine vibration and other movement so putting the same part back on would be asking for a deja-vu.

Thanks for all the part numbers - i'll try to devise a home solution, as i am not so convinced that OEM parts these days are always "good enough".


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

routan2010se said:


> Did you ever fab these? I know the part will fail again...


Nope, it was too expensive. I would have had to manufacture too many to keep the price lower than the hose assembly. I can say that our was replaced IIRC around 37K miles and we now have almost 65K and not one sign of a drip or scent of antifreeze which already would have been present based on mileage, so I think I'll be good to go. Heck, even if I need to put one on myself to get me over 100K this thing hasn't cost me anything but a set of tires and set of rotors and pads all the way around, and oil changes so a little maintenance here and there is no biggie. Still love our Routan.


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## PASSAT2001.5 (Apr 8, 2001)

*No Recall for this issue?*

I just bought the parts brass-T & heater hose to replace the cracked Y-pipe, but it's hard to believe this common issue among Routan & T&C models has not been issued a recall by the manufacturers.

I guess the stealers are happy to charge $400+ for this simple but recurring repairs, as the replacements parts are still prone to same failure.


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## vdubtech398 (Jul 19, 2007)

Very happy to charge $400 to do the job. Dealerships and techs are in business to make money. Independent shops would charge you money to work on your car as well. Do you go to work for free? Maybe they should recall every mk4 plastic water pump impeller because they break and timing belts because they break too. **** happens man. I've been at 4 dealers in the last 8 years. I've done maybe 10 of these, and seen a other 10 done by other techs.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## routan2010se (Jun 17, 2013)

I think i paid $150 or so, they even installed the cheaper Caravan part rather than the routan specific part, and were honest enough to disassemble the whole thing so as not to get extra labour replacing the rest of the pipe under the car that was not needed.

Unless you can petition the NHTSA that it is a safety related issue, I doubt it will ever be a recall. Other than steaming your windows up, I can't see how it would cause a crash.

Now if it caused you to loose all power..

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml

File a complaint, maybe if enough of us do Chrysler / VW will be forced to make a better part...


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

vdubtech398 said:


> Very happy to charge $400 to do the job. Dealerships and techs are in business to make money. Independent shops would charge you money to work on your car as well. Do you go to work for free? Maybe they should recall every mk4 plastic water pump impeller because they break and timing belts because they break too. **** happens man. I've been at 4 dealers in the last 8 years. I've done maybe 10 of these, and seen a other 10 done by other techs.


With all due respect (and I sincerely mean that because you have contributed some useful information in the past), but nobody was suggesting that techs or dealerships work for free. VWoA and VAG were the ones who thought it a good idea to slap a VW badge on a Chrycho vehicle that utilizes tons of Chineseum ****e parts. When VWoA issues a recall, they pay the dealerships and the techs for performing the work to correct their mistakes. No different here. The examples you cited are replaced as wear items at designated intervals. If the heater hose assembly was designed for a 40k mile lifetime, then it should have been included in the maintenance schedule as a replacement item. It wasn't because it wasn't designed as a wear item. It's failing because of poor design ("design defect"??) and VW (and Chryco) should step up and either offer a recall to correct the design defect, or at least issue a TSB for a reasonable repair. It involves a $5 part and half hour of labor to repair, but instead they're replacing tons of unnecessary components and charging $400. They may as well say the whole engine needs to be replaced. It's not much of a stretch to what they're doing now replacing several feet of piping because of a $5 plastic T-fitting failing due to a ****ey design.

And to answer your questions, if timing belts are commonly breaking earlier than the maintenance schedule calls for the replacement, then VAG's engineers screwed up and VAG should pay for it. I'm not talking about replacement timing belts that were improperly installed, but if the OEM belts have a 100k change interval and they routinely break at 60k or 80k miles, then either VAG should cover those costs or they should issue an addendum to the maintenance schedule reducing the timing belt interval to 60k miles.


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## vdubtech398 (Jul 19, 2007)

Zambee500 said:


> With all due respect (and I sincerely mean that because you have contributed some useful information in the past), but nobody was suggesting that techs or dealerships work for free. VWoA and VAG were the ones who thought it a good idea to slap a VW badge on a Chrycho vehicle that utilizes tons of Chineseum ****e parts. When VWoA issues a recall, they pay the dealerships and the techs for performing the work to correct their mistakes. No different here. The examples you cited are replaced as wear items at designated intervals. If the heater hose assembly was designed for a 40k mile lifetime, then it should have been included in the maintenance schedule as a replacement item. It wasn't because it wasn't designed as a wear item. It's failing because of poor design ("design defect"??) and VW (and Chryco) should step up and either offer a recall to correct the design defect, or at least issue a TSB for a reasonable repair. It involves a $5 part and half hour of labor to repair, but instead they're replacing tons of unnecessary components and charging $400. They may as well say the whole engine needs to be replaced. It's not much of a stretch to what they're doing now replacing several feet of piping because of a $5 plastic T-fitting failing due to a ****ey design.
> 
> And to answer your questions, if timing belts are commonly breaking earlier than the maintenance schedule calls for the replacement, then VAG's engineers screwed up and VAG should pay for it. I'm not talking about replacement timing belts that were improperly installed, but if the OEM belts have a 100k change interval and they routinely break at 60k or 80k miles, then either VAG should cover those costs or they should issue an addendum to the maintenance schedule reducing the timing belt interval to 60k miles.



I know how recalls work and why they create them. Usually they are recalls designed for safety reasons, this is not safety related and there are not enough cases to think about a recall. There is no designated interval for a water pump but they all still break,but where's the recall? timing belt was a bad example due to it actually has an interval. The list could go on forever about what things fail on all cars. TSB for a reasonable repair? The difference between a recall and a TSB is that a recall usually evolves out of safety issues at the behalf of an organization like the national highway traffic safety administration. The recall maintenance/repair work is usually done at no charge to the car owner, regardless of the car's warranty status. Dealers are usually under no mandate to call in cars for which there are TSBs to do the related repairs. Nor is there an obligation to do the TSB repairs for free or at reduced charges to the owner. Replace the engine? Little dramatic. Sounds like you are mad and whining a bit. $400 is not the end of the world kind of money man. Lots of parts are super over priced. Replace the faulty parts and move on.


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## jlgill (Jun 18, 2014)

*Gates Heater Hose - Heater Outlet*

I have a 2009 VW Routan SE, and the heater hose outlet splicer (y connector) split at the seem. I am in the military and currently stationed in Germany, and owning a VW which is manufactured by Chrysler just makes everything more difficult. For the most part, this thread was the biggest help out there which is why I'm adding what I have found in hopes that I can save someone else the headache I've been going through. Check out the link below. I ordered this part and it looks like it's going to do the trick, but I'll have wait till it gets here before I know. 

Does anyone know how to bleed (not drain) the coolant lines? I've looked at it and haven't been able to find a bleeder valve. 


http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/2009/volkswagen/routan/climate_control/heater_hose.html?brand=gates


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## cscsc (Jun 14, 2009)

I've been looking to purchase a heater hose assembly as a 'just-in-case' part to have on hand because the OEM setup will eventually fail. I found some interesting things:

The Mopar part number is 4677603AK. Dorman makes part # 626-307. Both of these include both the supply and return assemblies. The Dorman is about $50. on Amazon

An ebay seller, http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Chrysler-Tow...rg=20140620075055&rk=1&rkt=10&sd=301166426301, Sells an all-metal kit for under $20.00 that looks like this:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzAxWDk0Mw==/z/72wAAMXQUmFSgT~g/$_57.JPG

Gates sells the supply and return assemblies separately as 23933 and 23931 for about $47. EACH on Amazon.

I think I may invest in the ebay metal kit - a least the exhaust heat can't melt it.

Let's hear some thoughts.


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## RobMan8023 (Jul 17, 2002)

cscsc said:


> I've been looking to purchase a heater hose assembly as a 'just-in-case' part to have on hand because the OEM setup will eventually fail. I found some interesting things:
> 
> The Mopar part number is 4677603AK. Dorman makes part # 626-307. Both of these include both the supply and return assemblies. The Dorman is about $50. on Amazon
> 
> Let's hear some thoughts.


I went with the 5/8" heater hose + 5/8" t-fitting route from the local parts store. Solved the leak. If it happens again, I'll probably go ahead with the eBay metal version or Dorman version...thanks for the links...good instructions on one of the links the OP listed. No need to do anything with the existing hoses aside from extending the engine block side to meet hoses I cut off from the existing Y fitting...connected everything back up with traditional hose clamps and everything appears to be leak-free.


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## gzukof (Feb 15, 2015)

Reviving the dead here. It seems that the leaking Y is not an unknown issue. Anyone care to post how it held up 2-3 years later? BTW, people have been using barbed brass pex tees which run about 4.00 for the repair. Some talk about galvanic corrosion resulted in custom Y fittings being made.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Car-Truck-Parts-/6030/m.html?_ssn=newyorkbuyer


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## treg4574 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Lots of pictures here...*

http://tearitupfixitrepeat.blogspot.com/2012/08/08-dodge-grand-caravan-antifreeze.html


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