# 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP?



## carma (Sep 30, 1999)

Just curious what kind of HP this engine can make with easy bolt-ons. Possibly 240 HP?? ANyone know what the engine is getting in Europe with these small upgrades?


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## DwightLooi (May 16, 2000)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (carma)*

Probably not that much.
The engine is rated at 204hp (DIN) and 199 lb-ft in europe. VW plans no physical changes for the US version as it makes emission standards as is. This leads to early speculations that it'll have 201hp (SAE) and the same 199 lb-ft of torque in the US; standards of hp measurement differs from one side of Atlantic to the other, 204hp (DIN) = 201hp (SAE net). As it turns out the US engine will have ONE less hp and FOUR less lb-ft compared to the european unit, that is it'll have 200hp @ 6200rpm and 195lb-ft @ 3200rpm. This is probably due to slight ECU tuning differences to give a wider margin of fuel tolerance; European premium is quite uniformly 94 octane by US (R+M/2) standard whereas US premium is anywhere from 91 to 93 octane depending on where you live.
In general, exhaust and intake mods alone won't earn you more than 0 to 5 hp. Camshafts are another story, but even these are limited by the size of your intake runners, valves and such. Besides, I don't consider camshaft swaps a small upgrade.
Cams cost anywhere from $600 to $1300 a pair. You have to take off the valve cover, timing chain, camshaft bearing caps, intake mannifold, and a whole host of other things to get to them. Then you have to be sure to index them right. That is a good $300 labor or so to install if you don't DIY. Mild aftermarket cams may not earn more than 10 or 15 hp, more aggressive ones (those with notably higher than normal lift and lift-speed) may need higher tension valve springs accompany them as well, more $$$. And then if you have really aggressive cams you'll run into idle and emission problems as well as a general weaking of low speed performance.


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## carma (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (DwightLooi)*

I've read that with a chip the European 24v 4motion GTI gets like 220 HP.


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (carma)*

If a chipped 12V VR6 can net about 10 hp and a few more hp from a CAI and exhaust respectively, I think it is reasonable for the 24V VR6 to have similar improvements. 215-220 hp should be possible.
Unfortunately, we all just have to wait until 1) motor becomes available and 2) the appropriate aftermarket products become available.


[Modified by VeeDubDriver, 8:57 AM 1-7-2002]


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## DwightLooi (May 16, 2000)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (VeeDubDriver)*

215-220 is possible with chip/intake/exhaust, but that'll probably be the upper bound on gains with such mods. I think the gain will be less since the 24v already has better flowing intake and exhaust compared the the 12v, hence the room for aftermarket improvement may be less.
In any case, we won't really know until the cars get here, the aftermarket gets to work and somebody puts all the right stuff on his/her car and turn up with a dyno slip!


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## late_apex (Oct 23, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (DwightLooi)*

It will be a few years befroe you see any mods that are really cool on these motors too. I remember when they released the VR6 in the MkIII's people swore up and down you'd never be able to get more performance out of them. Now you can build a pretty impressive 3.2l NA car. It will take some time before we see any really cool stuff for the 24v IMO.


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## Mhyrr (Jul 12, 1999)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (late_apex)*

I don't think it will take AS long. People already know how to make most things work with the 12v, the 24v just can breathe better. This especially opens up options for forced induction, and I think we'll see some big power being made fairly quickly.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (Mhyrr)*

Several chip tuners in Europe are getting 225-230hp out of the 24V VR6 with just the chip. I'd say 220-230hp is possible in the US with chip and exhaust given the gas we have, although only time will tell.


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## FatSean (Jul 23, 1999)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (JLucchio)*

Cams may be a while in coming, but that's the only way you're going to make considerable power w/o going forced induction.


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## drvroom (Mar 2, 2000)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (FatSean)*

NONE of this means a damn thing w/out a LSD!


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## suspiciousjetta (Dec 28, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (drvroom)*

I'd estimate 5 hp from a chip, around 5 hp from intake (or airbox mods?) and exhaust combined, and a solid 10 hp from cams. So my conservative estimate would be a good 220 HP with the chip, cams, intake and exhaust. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Golf 2 Slow GLS (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (suspiciousjetta)*

Funny, a 1.8t will put out over 230 with the same mods


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (Golf 2 Slow GLS)*

Funny - but a twin turbo VR6 will put out power that a 1.8T can only dream of


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## Golf 2 Slow GLS (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (JLucchio)*

Funny, lets look at apples and apples here.








Fact:
Mod for Mod the 1.8t will produce more power and is lighter than the 2.8 so it will be faster. If the the 2.8 uses NOS.... it might be a different story but as far as chipping and bolt ons go, the 1.8t will be faster. 
As far as going all out and spending crazy $$$ on the 2.8.... yes, it will probably be faster than a 1.8t that is worked the same. But most people will never do that much work to their VW so the 1.8t is the winner for bang for the buck. Yes, the 2.8 is better than the 1.8t in some ways, but bang for the buck is not one of them.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (Golf 2 Slow GLS)*

A chip/intake and turboback exhaust on a AWW or NEWER 1.8T will yield 213hp to the wheels or about 230-235 at the crank. Earlier engines put out about 200hp to the wheels with those mods.
A 24V Vr6 with a chip and CATBACK exhuast has produced 230hp at the crank in Europe. That's about 210hp at the wheels - the same as the 1.8T.
Cost of chip, intake and TURBO back exhaust for a 1.8T is about $2,000. I would suspect a chip at $500 and Catback for about $500 for the 24V VR6.
Over 230hp at the crank for a 1.8T - you need to upgrade the turbo. To get over 250hp - you need about $3-4k worth of upgrades.
Single turbo systems for the new 24V VR6 will put out over 300hp at the crank. HPA has one now and several are under development. The cost of those will be around $3-4k - same as the COMPLETE turbo upgrades for the 1.8T. However to achieve the same HP on the 1.8T you need to run much more boost.
Twin turbo systems which will give the 24V VR6 over 550hp at the crank are about $15k. They are pretty much bolt on with the exception of the headgasket spacer. To get 550hp on a 1.8T would cost about $25k and require a complete rebuild of the engine.
How's them apples


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## Golf 2 Slow GLS (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (JLucchio)*

Those apples are much better.... but I am talking about the lower end mods. Chip for the 1.8T is $325. That puts your up to 210 hp... and if Up comes out with a 93 octante chip you will have 215 hp right there.... but for now 210. You can add a turbo back exhaust for under $1,000... more like $800 I think. And then put in an ITG filter for $50. So you are looking at closer to $1,200, not $2,000 for those 230-235 hp. 
How many hp do you get on the new 2.8 with a chip? 10? Maybe 15? An exhaust will give you what? 10hp on a good day? Add your air filter or intake or whatever and the prices are not the far apart. So with those mods the 1.8t will be faster and if you factor in how much more the 2.8 costs from the factory.... I think the 1.8t wins the bang for the buck.


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## ALPHA_NUMERIC (Dec 27, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (Golf 2 Slow GLS)*

I agree that for the money, a 1.8 T is the better route. Sorry to say, but to have a VR6 safely and effectively handle 550HP, you'll be spending WAY over 15 grand. You'd need a total reworking of the car to handle that kind of power. New tranny, suspension, engine reinforcement, brakes the list goes on and on. You'd need the same for the 1.8, but who in the hell is going to spend $20k on a Jetta or Gti. I'd go out and buy an S4 before I did all that. For $1,000, you can have a lightning quick 1.8. I have a stock Wolfsburg and blow the doors off of Civic Si's and Prelude SH's all day long. Now add a chip intake and exhaust and I'll be toastin RSX's, Prelude Si's etc no problem.


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## dmkozak (Aug 22, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (Golf 2 Slow GLS)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Those apples are much better.... but I am talking about the lower end mods. Chip for the 1.8T is $325. That puts your up to 210 hp... and if Up comes out with a 93 octante chip you will have 215 hp right there.... but for now 210. You can add a turbo back exhaust for under $1,000... more like $800 I think. And then put in an ITG filter for $50. So you are looking at closer to $1,200, not $2,000 for those 230-235 hp. 
How many hp do you get on the new 2.8 with a chip? 10? Maybe 15? An exhaust will give you what? 10hp on a good day? Add your air filter or intake or whatever and the prices are not the far apart. So with those mods the 1.8t will be faster and if you factor in how much more the 2.8 costs from the factory.... I think the 1.8t wins the bang for the buck. [HR][/HR]​Looks like you're talking paper apples to paper apples. You're only talking about "paper" horsepower figures. You're not talking torque at all, or even real world driving. Btw, your VR6 chip improvement is too little, and your exhaust improvements are too high. A chipped 24V will probably generate more horsepower and torque, on paper, than a chipped 1.8T.
What you're also forgetting is turbos make less power in heat, high humidity and lower altitudes. That is one reason why turbos are so popular in mountain regions; more bang for your buck in the cold, dry mountain air. A turbo 1.8T in Houston, in the summer, even chipped and exhausted, will feel like plain old 4 banger. In other words, much less bang for the buck.


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## late_apex (Oct 23, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (Golf 2 Slow GLS)*

The real issue is real world you put those two cars side by side in a race, the VR6 would be faster. Not to metion it isn't the smartest thing to run 15lbs of boost on a turbo that will only handle 10 constantly. Which is the stage 3 chip, the one it takes to get to over 200hp(on 150hp cars). Besides NA with torque feels so much better then doggy to overboosted. I'll take my VR6 anyday over a 1.8T, just personal preference though. I've driven my friends A4 1.8T, nice car, just not impressed with the motor. Love the quattro though. 


[Modified by late_apex, 8:21 PM 1-24-2002]


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## Golf 2 Slow GLS (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (late_apex)*

And why would the VR6 be faster? A chipped 1.8t with more HP and torque that weighs less would be FASTER than 24 V 2.8.! It is simple physics. A 2800 lb car with 210 hp and 245 lb/ft of torque will be faster than a 2900 lb car with 200 hp and less than 200 lb/ft of torque. Sure, their gearing is different but anyway you look at it, the higher torque and hp of the 1.8t will make it faster. And there are several 1.8t with over 50k chipped miles on them with no problems. I know of at least one that has 100 k miles on it that runs fine. If the turbo goes, then it is time to upgrade to a bigger one to really smoke some 24V 2.8’s!


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## ALPHA_NUMERIC (Dec 27, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (dmkozak)*

A 1.8 runs like a 4 banger in heat even with chip and exhaust??? Ha. I don't think so. What 1.8 were you driving?


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## ALPHA_NUMERIC (Dec 27, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (ALPHA_NUMERIC)*

How much boost is a stage 2 chip pushing? The APR version that produces 196HP for a 150 1.8? It doesn't put that much extra stress on your engine unless you are constantly heavy on the throttle. Plus proper warm ups and cool downs make it harmless. It's the people who don't do that who have problems. Those engines are strong as hell. They aren't bustin cuz of some extra boost. A stronger aftermarket DV makes it almost foolproof too. They're both great engines. I definately think a modified 1.8 can take a Vr6 having the same mods. Weight is the key there. Car and Driver actually lists the 2002 1.8's as being quicker from 0-60 than the VR6s.


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## Golf 2 Slow GLS (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (ALPHA_NUMERIC)*

The new 93 octane chip is pushing 215 HP for AWP 1.8t's!


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## ALPHA_NUMERIC (Dec 27, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (ALPHA_NUMERIC)*

2001 Jetta 1.8
0-60 7.2sec...QM 15.7
2001 Jetta VR6
0-60 7.8sec....QM 16sec.
Both come from a 2001 edition of Car and Driver.


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## Golf 2 Slow GLS (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (ALPHA_NUMERIC)*

Well there you go. More is less! A 150 hp 1.8t was faster than a 174 hp VR6. Now just think what a 210hp Golf/Jetta would do to a 200 hp VR6?
quote:[HR][/HR]2001 Jetta 1.8
0-60 7.2sec...QM 15.7
2001 Jetta VR6
0-60 7.8sec....QM 16sec.
Both come from a 2001 edition of Car and Driver.[HR][/HR]​


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (Golf 2 Slow GLS)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Those apples are much better.... but I am talking about the lower end mods. Chip for the 1.8T is $325. That puts your up to 210 hp... and if Up comes out with a 93 octante chip you will have 215 hp right there.... but for now 210. You can add a turbo back exhaust for under $1,000... more like $800 I think. And then put in an ITG filter for $50. So you are looking at closer to $1,200, not $2,000 for those 230-235 hp. 
How many hp do you get on the new 2.8 with a chip? 10? Maybe 15? An exhaust will give you what? 10hp on a good day? Add your air filter or intake or whatever and the prices are not the far apart. So with those mods the 1.8t will be faster and if you factor in how much more the 2.8 costs from the factory.... I think the 1.8t wins the bang for the buck. [HR][/HR]​The only Turboback exhaust that produced over 210hp at the wheels (not the crank) was the 3" FM exhaust - it's $1299 I think. The car was also equipped with a EVO CAI - it's not a panel filter. The chip was a GAIC which is also not $325. You can't assume ANY chip, ANY turboback exhaust or ANY intake will reproduce those figures. I have two 1.8T's - both modded with a chip - one produces 194hp the other 204hp. So now your at stock VR6 levels of hp (however a major torque advantage).
Anything that applies to a chip concerning higher octane gas will apply to a 1.8T as well as a VR6. Sure the gains were talking about aren't huge and the VR6 wouldn't benefit AS much as a turbo car, but in reality - it's not that big of a difference.
The chip figures I'm quoting are from European website with dyno plots and have shown 225hp with just a chip. The 24V VR6 is much different than the 12V. The car has much more potential for gains due to the variable intake and exhaust timing and variable geometry manifold. However, I am assuming that GAIC or another reputable VR6 tuner could extract as much if not more from that engine.
As far as weight goes - the current GTI 1.8T weighs over 2,900 lbs - my old 00 GTI GLX weighed 2,880 lbs. The difference in weight of the two engines is about 50lbs when you take into consideration all the turbo related parts and plumbing. My GTI GLX could put down 6.8 0-60's and 15 flat quarter miles. Not far off from the 02 GTI 1.8T's. 
I mentioned the 550hp VR6 to demonstrate that the ability to create HP is still dependent on displacement to a certain degree.


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## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (carma)*

No matter what, you cry babies aren't going to agree on anything. Any turbo car is more cost effective to produce more power. But heat and Humidity to play an issue. There is no 1.8t Golf IV(us) that is 2200 lbs. VW has gone with the luxury route after the mk3, and it appears they are starting to get rid of that. 
Gearing wise, is completly different. Ill tell ya what, any 1.8t that wants to go up against my car is welcome to. Just have to wait until i actually get it back, DAMN U MATRIX








After a chip and an intake(from the turbo back) on a 1.8t. You are more the half way getting a turbo for a 24v. I, personally, dont like turbo cars. The driveability of the vr6 (12v and 24v) is much better. I dont like gradual(sp?) torque of a turbo, I like the high linear torque.
Anyways you can take a 1000 lbs car with 120 hp and it would kill all of us. HP doesnt mean anything.
Just drop it.
NOONE WINS BUT ME










[Modified by fatfreevw, 4:28 PM 1-24-2002]


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## boostn (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (fatfreevw)*

BAH. something to consider. You arent going to have a warranty after you chip your 1.8T, or at least run the risk of getting caught as there is NO full proof way of hiding a chip outside of buying a new ECU and VAG com which will run $700 plus the chip. 
An exhaust and intake will not void a warranty on either as the dealer will find it virtually impossible to prove that greater air flow and a more free flowing exhaust have ever harmed an engine. 
A NA V6 engine will have no lag and power will be available at nearly any RPM. I would take the extra 74 lbs of the VR6 engine for no lag. And the gearing of the 6 speed VR6 could quite possibly make up for the extra 74 pounds of the VR6. 
You are saying for basic bolt ons, the 1.8T is better. To a degree this is correct if you dont mind risking your warranty. Now if you blow your motor running to much boost on the tiny stock K03 and warranty doesnt cover it because of a chip, how is that the "best bang for the buck" (no pun intended)? Personally, I would rather buy the power stock and add I/E and have the peace of mind of a full warranty.
Conclusion: both are great engines so who gives a poop. When my warranty runs out and I am running boost on a 24valve VR6, I doubt I will be worrying about very many 1.8T's though.


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## ALPHA_NUMERIC (Dec 27, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (boostn)*

You will when one of us adds a second KO4 turbo. He he. just kidding. They're all great cars. One more thing in favor of the turbo....We have a much cooler sound with the turbo whistle and a low roar from a catback. he he. VR6's sound aweosme as well, but you can't beat that high pitch whistle. They all sound better than the peice o junk lawnmower Hondas. Oh and to whoever thinks the Si's and Preludes are faster:
Car and Driver:
2001 Civic Si ---0-60=7.8 QM. 15.8
2001 Prelude SH ---0-60 7.6 15.5
2001 1.8T Jetta ----=0-60 7.2 @ 15.5
I kind of wish I got one of these though:
2001 Acura RSX Type S--- 0-60=6.2 QM 14.7
2001 Subaru WRX ---0-60=5.4!!!! QM 14.4 Damn that things quick!
2001 Porsche 911 GT2 = 0-60=3.4 QM 11.7 STOCK!!!! Holy shoot!!!


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (ALPHA_NUMERIC)*

Don't take Car and Driver as the word of law....
no other car mag has been able to repeat those times for an RSX type_s 
another instance, some car mag that recently reviewed the 180 hp gti got a 6.5 0 - 60 time.


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## ALPHA_NUMERIC (Dec 27, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (gizmopop)*

Isn't 6.5 good for that car and accurate? What do you think the RSX runs closer to?


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## boostn (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (ALPHA_NUMERIC)*

hmm adding a second K04 wouldnt be that practical as you can achieve more boost than the 1.8T can handle with a large enough single turbo unti, but anyways easy on the honda hating. They are great cars. Its just all the morons that screw them up with stupid mods. And that is an extremely high time for the Si and Prelude. Most common time for the Si that I have seen is 7.2 for the 0-60 and 15.6 for the 1/4. And if Im not mistaken, Car and Driver got the same thing. Ill have to double check......


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## Devilishly_Handsom (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (boostn)*

The rsx isint hat fast, the best i have seen is low 15's, THe car and driver time of 6.1 and 14.9 was a fluke, noone from http://www.clubrsx.net has acheived anything close. Its not hard to tell that a 1.8t with the right mods will whoop a new 24v, even with a 6-speed. I guess that it will run around 6.8 to 7.1 somewhere around there. quartermile times will probably be mid to low 15's. I have driven the 5-speed tip 24v and i found it peppy, and with the right mods a 24v jetta could run mid to high 15's with cai, exhaust and a chip.


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## what (Jun 24, 1999)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (Devilishly_Handsom)*

why must everything turn into a 1.8t vs Vr6 argument?


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## suspiciousjetta (Dec 28, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (what)*

Sure the 1.8t is more powerful for the money, but the sound and feel of the VR6 are priceless.


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (ALPHA_NUMERIC)*

Let’s take a look at the real numbers.
If you take a 2002 1.8T and add a new chip ($325-$500), the Forced-Motion exhaust ($1300), Neuspeed turbo inlet pipe ($260), EVO CAI or equivalent ($200) and a new DV ($140) you could expect to make around 250 hp at a cost of about $2300. Adding a chip, CAI and exhaust to the 24V VR6 will run about $1000 and would be good for perhaps 220 hp. So the 1.8T will be making more power, however, as we have seen from the Car and Driver test of the 25th Anniversary GTI, the 6-speed was able to knock about half a second off the 0-60 time of a stock 5-speed 1.8T GTI. It is reasonable to assume that the 6-speed in the 24V VR6 GTI will be as effective, perhaps making up the power deficit from the modded 1.8T. 
Now, here are the two most important factors (in my mind). First, the dealer will be able to detect that you have chipped your 1.8T, not by detecting the actual chip, but by seeing that you have gone beyond the stock boost levels, which only a chip could accomplish. Second, the modded 1.8T will be exceeding the torque capacity of the stock 5-speed by a good 50-60 foot-lbs of torque. What does this mean? Well, sooner or later, that 5-speed tranny is going to fail and since the dealer will know you chipped your car, they will not fix it under warranty. How soon will that happen? Could be 15K miles, 20K miles, 30K miles…who knows. Just depends on how hard you are driving. My point is that I don’t want to have to worry about that happening.
The 6-speed in the 24V VR6 is good for 250 foot-lbs of torque, which won’t be exceeded by doing the above mentioned mods. Will the modded 1.8T be faster? Perhaps. Can the 1.8T be made even faster? Sure, but at what cost? Stage III kits and upgraded clutches cost even more money, and then you will just be destroying your tranny (and other drive-train parts) that much faster. My first Z/28 was a low 12-second daily driver. But, I went through three transmissions and two rear ends in the process. Why? The stock 5-speed was never designed to handle 450 foot-lbs of torque. Yes, I could beat a Viper, but I also had to carry tools with me at all times. Those days are long past for me.
It is one thing to have power; it is another to have reliable power. I choose the latter, even if it means loosing to a 1.8T. All it means is that he spend more money and will have larger repair bills. If that is an acceptable price to pay for speed (and at one time for me it was) then by all means go for the 1.8T and enjoy.



[Modified by VeeDubDriver, 8:29 AM 1-28-2002]


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## corpsedub (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (Golf 2 Slow GLS)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Funny, lets look at apples and apples here.








Fact:
Mod for Mod the 1.8t will produce more power and is lighter than the 2.8 so it will be faster. If the the 2.8 uses NOS.... it might be a different story but as far as chipping and bolt ons go, the 1.8t will be faster. 
As far as going all out and spending crazy $$$ on the 2.8.... yes, it will probably be faster than a 1.8t that is worked the same. But most people will never do that much work to their VW so the 1.8t is the winner for bang for the buck. Yes, the 2.8 is better than the 1.8t in some ways, but bang for the buck is not one of them. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/biggrinsanta.gif" BORDER="0"> [HR][/HR]​
why do we care about the 1.8T...THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT A 1.8T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Devilishly_Handsom (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (corpsedub)*

i beg to differ, we are discussing potential buys for pwople and this is the best place to compare the two. Mod for mod we all know the 1.8t will be faster in the straight-line, its got a turbo for * sake. I want a car with good speed stock, which is both, now i will probably mod the car, but at the same time i wasnt reliable power, now thats only the 24v. I have seen one to many threads of turbows going bad, or the stock 5-speed crapping out under the preasures of moddification. The jetta gli is perfect for me, it gets better seats than the 1.8t jetta, has a much better tranny, great power delivery ect ect. For my taste its a no brainer, i would not even hesitate. So i might get beat by a 1.8t, and thats just saying he dosent blow his tranny shifting at redline with 260tq on tap. 


[Modified by Mhyrr, 11:30 PM 1-30-2002]


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## Mhyrr (Jul 12, 1999)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (Devilishly_Handsom)*

I expect the 24v to be more interesting for tuners simply because, from everything I've heard, it is far more efficient than the 12v, on par with the wonderful 1.8t. 
Another thing to consider for very high hp applications is the lag. Yes you can get gobs of hp from the 1.8t, but with lots 'o lag.. and you may not start to come on till after 4k rpm. With something like a turbo vr things get more interesting


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## speedR (Jan 23, 2000)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (Mhyrr)*

I've been following this post for a while so here are my $.02.
First of all let me start off by saying that the 1.8T is a marvel. Let's face it though there's no replacement for displacement. Let's take the 1.8T for example...remove that turbo and your looking at what 125hp if that much. Therefore the vr will always have an advantage over the 1.8T. 
The new vr6 will be even crazier. I can imagine that with the 24v head design the engine will be much more efficient. Chip tuning in Europe has yielded 15+ hp add some 268's and your looking at 35+ easy. Running a cam which is even more aggressive shouldn't be a problem since these engines are able to breath much better than the 12v's. I have no doubt in my mind that the new vr's will be able to lay down 250+ hp(crank) power with your basic bolt-on's and cams. 
And if that isn't enough a 3.0/3.1 litre shouldn't have a problem laying 280+ hp with some chip tuning. 
Now if only vw would bring over the 3.2l vr6


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## corpsedub (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (Devilishly_Handsom)*

quote:[HR][/HR]i beg to differ, we are discussing potential buys for pwople and this is the best place to compare the two. Mod for mod we all know the 1.8t will be faster in the straight-line, its got a turbo for * sake. I want a car with good speed stock, which is both, now i will probably mod the car, but at the same time i wasnt reliable power, now thats only the 24v. I have seen one to many threads of turbows going bad, or the stock 5-speed crapping out under the preasures of moddification. The jetta gli is perfect for me, it gets better seats than the 1.8t jetta, has a much better tranny, great power delivery ect ect. For my taste its a no brainer, i would not even hesitate. So i might get beat by a 1.8t, and thats just saying he dosent blow his tranny shifting at redline with 260tq on tap. 

[Modified by Mhyrr, 11:30 PM 1-30-2002][HR][/HR]​look i beg to beat your head in too..but thats not happening(yet)..this thread is in the 24v forum and asking about mods to the 24v VR6...why does this 1.8T issue always find it's way in here?..is there some sort of Envy that the 1.8T owners have on the VR6? we all know your faster..but do we care?


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## Devilishly_Handsom (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (corpsedub)*

Look Corpse, dont threten me in your little chidish way, i dont own either of the engines, all im jsut saying that its inevitable that they will be compared, and just cause the topic is switching dosent mean you shouldnt allow it. Take some zanex and go to bed thank you


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## corpsedub (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (Devilishly_Handsom)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Look Corpse, dont threten me in your little chidish way, i dont own either of the engines, all im jsut saying that its inevitable that they will be compared, and just cause the topic is switching dosent mean you shouldnt allow it. Take some zanex and go to bed thank you[HR][/HR]​duude..im sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sick of talking about the 1.8T...get it?!?!


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## busyman (Jan 30, 2002)

*may as well throw this on the fire...*

what do you think of the mitsu. lancer evolution VII that's supposedly coming over to the U.S.? I've read anywhere from 230 to 276hp out of that turbo V4. All-wheel drive. it would eat up most of the cars out right now.
don't hate me. i'm a fan of the 24v VR6... I love the sound and feel of a bigger engine.


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

*Re: may as well throw this on the fire... (busyman)*

I suspect that you will be looking at a price a good $4K-6K more than a base 24V GTI. Yes, it will be sick fast, but, it will still have the driving characteristics of a small motor with a big turbo - LAG. The WRX doesn't come on the turbo until around 3K RPMs and I suspect the EVO will be similar. I am not knocking this, just for me personally, I prefer a more linear response and low-end torque.


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## busyman (Jan 30, 2002)

*Re: may as well throw this on the fire... (VeeDubDriver)*

I agree, that's what impresses me most about the new VW engines (and maybe the old ones, too). They put out their peak HP and peak torque at about 2,000 rpm's lower than most of the other cars I see now. That's a good characteristic to have.


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (VeeDubDriver)*

The dealer will not fix the tranny either way, they consider this a wear item...
I know, I had to replace my clutch and some gears...my car was still under the 2 year/24,000 mile period... they said the tranny and clutch were only covered for 1 yr 12,000 miles.


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## Devilishly_Handsom (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (gizmopop)*

WEll corpse then its simple, just dont come into this thread and you wont have to hear anything about it.
Yea the evo7 and sti will be complete monsters, you really cant compare these cars at all. Both will come with around 260hp and awd so i dont think there will be many people racing these,, well if they dont want to get their ass whooped anyways. Now people like billy would beat one, but thats not the same thing. evo7 is supposed to be priced under 30 grand and the sti will probably be a few more.


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (gizmopop)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The dealer will not fix the tranny either way, they consider this a wear item...
I know, I had to replace my clutch and some gears...my car was still under the 2 year/24,000 mile period... they said the tranny and clutch were only covered for 1 yr 12,000 miles.







[HR][/HR]​Clutch yes, tranny, no. The transmission is part of the powertrain warranty. The dealer was lying to you.


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## briang (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: 24v VR6 chip, cams and exhaust= how much HP? (Golf 2 Slow GLS)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Well there you go. More is less! A 150 hp 1.8t was faster than a 174 hp VR6. Now just think what a 210hp Golf/Jetta would do to a 200 hp VR6?
2001 Jetta 1.8
0-60 7.2sec...QM 15.7
2001 Jetta VR6
0-60 7.8sec....QM 16sec.
Both come from a 2001 edition of Car and Driver.[HR][/HR]​I'll go ya one better the AUTOMATIC VR6 WAGON that C&D tested did 7.2 0-60 and 15.4 in the quarter mile.


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