# C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*The setup:* VRT, 8.5:1 compression, FMIC, C2 42# dizzy tune, walbro 255 inline, green tops, custom 4" MAF (see below), ISV deleted. 
*The issues: *car runs like poo. way too rich all of a sudden. was always too rich, but it is now worse. barely wants to idle. 
*The Remedies attempted: * cleared 2 fault codes (engine speed sensor fault, and ISV ground fault[expected]) all sensors checked and ok (see below for the contradicting info), pressure tested the system, no leaks. tried running the car with speed sensor plugged/unplugged with no change. 
once the codes were cleared, the car started running poorly at idle. stumbling all over the place, and stahling. it was WAY too rich. it smelled aweful (all fuel, spraying fuel out the tailpipe)
*the story:*
so, yesterday the car was idling wonderfully, but REALLY rich. i drove it for ~ 1.5 hours with no real issue (nothing abnormal) with alot of idle time since i was doing a photoshoot. everything seamed ok. 
today, out of nowhere, it barely holds an idle, like it is flooding out, and is falling all over itself. 
first thing i do is unplug the MAF, and BAM, car runs/idles a million times better. 
holding 850 ish at idle, and i have no ISV, so that is dope. 
now, the issue is, i have my MAF (basically) perminantly installed. notice here......








here is a pic of what is UNDER the IC pipes....








so, i have these pipes welded in, and i am gonna have to make a big deal about getting it out. which, i may just find that the car runs the same with another one installed. 
long story short, i need a work around, or atleast a suggestion. the car CAN run well, it has, and after changing NOTHING it runs like poo. this is so bizzar to me. 
Also, there were no codes for the CTS, MAF, TPS, O2, or IAT. so everything SHOULD be good. but as soon as i plug the MAF back in, sputter, chug, fall on face. it idles, but barely. this tells me the MAF is messing everything up, but how if there is no code, and how does one remedy it based upon the above pics?
how did this happen out of nowhere i wonder? why is it not showing any DTC's? 
another thing i noticed: my timing is all OVER the place while at idle. i go from ~1.5 to 24 degrees BTDC. this is at idle. i assume that is the ECU compensating for a rough idle, but holy crap that is alot of pull. 
also, injector "on time" is all over the place once i plug the MAF in, but with the MAF unplugged it is pretty dam steady at 2.9 ms. 
so, to all of you who have or are familiar this setup, with a dizzy car, with C2 software, with 42# injectors and a 4" maf, please tell me your tricks of the trade. 
i am all ears.........

EDIT:
here is an example of what the car is thinking at idle, with *the MAF PLUGGED IN........*








and this is with the MAF UNPLUGGED.............









if the MAF were fried, wouldn't i see the following code?
00553 2324
Mass air flow sensor (G 70)*

no codes tell me something else is the issue, but again, i am stumped. 



_Modified by Noobercorn at 10:39 AM 2-5-2008_


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (Noobercorn)*

also, i am looking for something like this for an OBD1 dizzy setup if anyone has any ideas......
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3290002


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## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (Noobercorn)*

I don't think I've seen my 02 sensor going as low as 0.79
This is my RPM while cruising versus air temp - 30 lb/hr with obd1 c2 chip - sorry .. I gotta find my timing plot.. 
So useless plot below for Mike








_Modified by fastslc at 8:36 AM 2-5-2008_


_Modified by fastslc at 8:41 AM 2-5-2008_


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (fastslc)*

i have just found this for the MAF, i am going to try it tonight....









fastslc, what are your normal O2 readings? "as low as .79", does that mean my O2 is reading low?


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## 92g60gti (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (Noobercorn)*

Have you tried unplugging the o2 sensor to see if it idles any better? Just throwing it out there, maybe the o2 sensor is stuck lean. Possibly the computer is seeing it lean and dumping a ton of fuel in. I mean seeing it is running extremely rich like you said, i would figure looking at the logs the o2 should be full rich. It does sound like you are probably right on the mass air hypothesis though...


_Modified by 92g60gti at 9:44 AM 2-5-2008_


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (Noobercorn)*

ok, something was just brought to my attention:
there were 2 codes we cleared. i deleted the ISV *BEFORE* clearing the codes, and therefore set the idle BEFORE clearing the codes. 
once we cleared the codes, i need to reset the idle. that will be a help i am sure. i wasn't sure why it was so bad, after being so smooth, but that would make some sense. 
so, can anyone confirm the readings i should be looking for from the MAF sensor itself? or the O2?


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (92g60gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *92g60gti* »_ i would figure looking at the logs the o2 should be full rich. 

i need to find out how to tell what is lean and/or rich from the 02. i see .79 ~ 1.0, but what is that reading? how can i convert that into lambda? 
fastslc is looking into it, but if anyone knows, chime in. 
if .79 is really lean, that would explain it dumping fuel. if .79 is really rich, that makes this a whole differrent ball game.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (Noobercorn)*

1.0 is lambda, .79 is in lambda so yeah, rich, way rich.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_1.0 is lambda, .79 is in lambda so yeah, rich, way rich.









what does .79 represent then? like, how do i convert it to an actual AFR?


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_
i need to find out how to tell what is lean and/or rich from the 02. i see .79 ~ 1.0, but what is that reading? how can i convert that into lambda? 
fastslc is looking into it, but if anyone knows, chime in. 
if .79 is really lean, that would explain it dumping fuel. if .79 is really rich, that makes this a whole differrent ball game. 

.79 in lamda = 11.61 for gasoline (Very rich for idle)
Air/Fuel Calculator


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_
.79 in lamda = 11.61 for gasoline (Very rich for idle)
Air/Fuel Calculator 

wow, um, that thing is a PITA. lol, ball buster!!!!
so, we all now know exactly HOW rich i am at idle, so, i need to alter it now. 
HOW.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (Noobercorn)*

ok, after looking at the logs posted above, notice how the O2 is reading .79 (11.61 AFR) at ~ 950 rpm's, and is steady as a mo fo? well, that was once i unplugged the MAF. 
now, notice how the O2 is reading 1.0 (which is supposed to indicate 14.7 AFR, but is WAY wrong) that was with the MAF plugged in. this is where it was stahling out/flooding. 
so, with the MAF plugged in, it is running like crap, but the O2 is fine? 
then, with the MAF unplugged, it runs a million times better, and we all see that as too rich? 
what the hell is going on here?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (Noobercorn)*

.79 is about 20% rich, which is close to what you get if the O2 is unplugged. Perhaps you have a bad O2 sensor.. try MAF plugged in and unplug the O2 and see how it feels.
Oh also the stock narrowband only guesses the lambda that's != 1, it's not as accurate as a WBO2 so it can be off up to 10% on its own.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_.79 is about 20% rich, which is close to what you get if the O2 is unplugged. Perhaps you have a bad O2 sensor.. try MAF plugged in and unplug the O2 and see how it feels..

ok, i will try that. keep in mind, the .79 was the IMPROVEMENT in the way it was running. 
also, once you unplug the MAF, shouldn't the TPS and 02 take over to let the car run? in which case the car did indeed run better. if the car is 20% rich and it feels better, the MAF could still be the culprit.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (Noobercorn)*

Yes but if the O2 is funky it might be getting you a stable afr, unless you know from other feedback (wb, black smoke, etc) that it's really that rich. 
I would go through the MAF tests to check it out in any case. Try MAF in O2 out of play.
Remember Jason's car when it had that problem, unplug the O2 to get it richer and it was fine. Strange but true.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (need_a_VR6)*

PK, i love you!..
my comments in bold.....

_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Yes but if the O2 is funky it might be getting you a stable afr, unless you know from other feedback (wb, black smoke, etc) that it's really that rich. 
*it is litterally blowing out fuel and crud, it is insanely rich, no doubt about it. it stings my eyes, and makes my clothes stink, badly*
Try MAF in O2 out of play.
*gonna do this first. if that works, does that mean the MAF is good, but O2 is bad i assume? wouldn't the O2 give me a DTC? *
Remember Jason's car when it had that problem, unplug the O2 to get it richer and it was fine. Strange but true.
*i recall his car running rich. you are saying that by unplugging the O2 it actually fatten'd his up? which version of the car? the turbo? or the SC? * 


so, i will test the MAF wires, test running the car without the O2 plugged in but MAF in, and what else? 
log these things and go from there i guess. 
also, if the O2 reads .79 in the chart above, constantly, and does not fluctuate at all, does that indicate that it is bad?


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## radoman57 (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (Noobercorn)*

Mine ran pig rich but it was a broken wire on the computer side of the O2 plug, actually it was an intermittent break in the wire, had to wiggle it to see the break in it. but you should get a code for that, no O2 sensor control in the blink codes it's a 2232 or something like that. once you figure out this problem, get an adjustable fpr. Mine runs really good now, running around 32 psi fuel pressure, alot lower than 4bar, it works though.


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## 92g60gti (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_PK, i love you!..
my comments in bold.....
so, i will test the MAF wires, test running the car without the O2 plugged in but MAF in, and what else? 
log these things and go from there i guess. 
also, if the O2 reads .79 in the chart above, constantly, and does not fluctuate at all, does that indicate that it is bad? 

I dont know about how the software is set up, but i do know that normally at idle and cruise o2 voltage is supposed to switch rich/lean/rich/lean. However i do not know how the software is set up in this instance. Seeing your car is OBD1 i am pretty sure that the o2 sensor uses a range of 0-1v (not 0-5v like a lot of newer stuff). So if you are getting 1.0v at idle with the maf plugged in, that is indeed full rich.
edit: earlier i couldnt see the logs posted, just red x'es haha. I see now that when you unplugged the maf, it says TPS is 17.5%. I know that you got rid of the isv and had to adjust your idle manually, but isn't 17.5 at idle way to high?


_Modified by 92g60gti at 2:48 PM 2-5-2008_


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

not that it helps much mike but my car likes 10-12 degrees of timing at idle, and around a 12.5 afr also with no isv.


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## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Mike did you hook up that DTC port, if so where?


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## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (KubotaPowered)*

Hi Mike
I just got done logging. Bear in mind I still use the OEM MAF diameter with the C2 OBD1 Dizzy chip
Cold Idle








After driving for a few mins - 02 starts cycling








Short 1-2 second boost - 02 goes to 1 








Back to idle - HOT - 02 is STILL cycling


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (fastslc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *radoman57* »_but you should get a code for that, no O2 sensor control in the blink codes it's a 2232 

i did not see any 02 codes, that is why i am confused. 

_Quote, originally posted by *92g60gti* »_I see now that when you unplugged the maf, it says TPS is 17.5%. I know that you got rid of the isv and had to adjust your idle manually, but isn't 17.5 at idle way to high?

i agree. i set the idle BEFORE clearing the codes, and it idled like a champ. dead steady at 840 rpm. after clearing he codes, like 10 seconds later, the car runs like crap. 

_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_not that it helps much mike but my car likes 10-12 degrees of timing at idle, and around a 12.5 afr also with no isv. 


yeah, a little rich is one thing, not able to hold it up is another. 

_Quote, originally posted by *KubotaPowered* »_Mike did you hook up that DTC port, if so where?

i rewired the factory plug. under the shifter in a rado. 

_Quote, originally posted by *fastslc* »_
Back to idle - HOT - 02 is STILL cycling



this is what gets me. my O2 was doinng nothing as you can see. it SHOULD be going all over the place, and it is static. this concerns me, and frankly, i don;t know how to interperet it. 
i will try to get another log in a littel bit here.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (Noobercorn)*

o2 data on obd1:
the data you see is what the ecu is ~doing, this is NOT 'lambda'.
example:
data = 1.00 this means live trims is ~zero
data = 0.80 this mean ecu is PULLING ~20%
data = 1.20 This means ecu is ADDING ~20%

-Jeffrey Atwood


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

You're O2 won't swing unless you're near the target. You're not hopskotching around the target from one side to another, you're current running condition is constantly trying to get back into the range- once you get to the other side it will swing. Something is making the computer think it needs to dump all that fuel or something mechanical failed and is dumping a lot of extra fuel. That something is one of the following:
- Jammed FPR (Check Fuel pressure at test port on rail)
- Bad CTS (the blue one, $13 to replace)
- Bad O2 sensor (unplug it and see how the car runs)
- Bad MAF sensor (unplug or replace - you have a "hotwire" sensor that is prone to vibration failure. If your sensor is not dampened where it touches the chassis or engine then its life will be shortened- visually inspect to make sure wire is intact)
- Fouled spark plug(s) (pull and inspect)
- Jammed/failed fuel injector
- Bad TPS (test with multimeter per Bentley instructions)
That's about all I can think of- my bet is that it's in there somewhere.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (DieGTi)*

jeff, i would love to have you look at this log... it is all over the place. 
also, are you saying that .79 in the O2 control log is actually lean? if so, i have to disagree with the car. it is really really rich. 
could that be an indication of the issue right there? 
here are the codes i got tonight. didn't have them yesterday....
4 Faults Found:
01257 - Idling Speed Stabilization Valve (N71) 
31-00 - Open or Short to Ground
00553 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70) 
29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
00537 - Lambda (Oxygen Sensor) Regulation 
11-10 - Control Limit Not Reached - Intermittent
00513 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28) 
03-00 - No Signal
then, after clearing them, about 3 minutes later....

4 Faults Found:
01257 - Idling Speed Stabilization Valve (N71) 
31-00 - Open or Short to Ground
00553 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70) 
29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
00537 - Lambda (Oxygen Sensor) Regulation 
11-10 - Control Limit Not Reached - Intermittent
00513 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28) 
03-00 - No Signal


_Quote, originally posted by *DieGTi* »_
- Jammed FPR (Check Fuel pressure at test port on rail) *testing tomorrow night*
- Bad CTS (the blue one, $13 to replace)
- Bad O2 sensor (unplug it and see how the car runs) *trying later, letting car cool down. *
- Bad MAF sensor *way too hard to get to, must try everythign else, then take off front end of the car to get to.*
- Fouled spark plug(s) (pull and inspect) *i keep doing this, and they actually look fine. done it 4 times or so lately*
- Jammed/failed fuel injector *wow, i woud think it would lean out for that. once i get the rest of the list done, i will look at them all*
- Bad TPS (test with multimeter per Bentley instructions)*i thought that was the case, but if i unplug this, the car dies. that tells me it is doing it's job*
That's about all I can think of- my bet is that it's in there somewhere.

i have a TON of logs at idle, and i can't find a really good way to post them. in reading them, i have such mixed emotions. 
i have read TONS of these logs, and never seen ones this dynamic. it is like the car is totally confused. 
the inconsistancies kill me. i did one last log, with the MAF plugged in, and it was fine. as in, rich, but idled fine. 
_Modified by Noobercorn at 9:24 PM 2-5-2008_


_Modified by Noobercorn at 9:25 PM 2-5-2008_


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

does anyone have a way to power the MAF and test it's output? i tested the wiring and that is fine (per the bentley)


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

only thing i could hep you test is the fuel pressure but I assume that works ok since ive seen the car work properly


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_only thing i could hep you test is the fuel pressure but I assume that works ok since ive seen the car work properly 

this is what kills me. the car ran FINE on sunday, then crappy on monday, and idled OK tonight. NOTHING CHANGED. 
the fuel pressure is probably high, since the car runs rich. BUT, as jeff mentioned above, the car is supposedly pulling fuel, so it is trying to lean out. 
why so ****ing rich? i am gonna unhook the walbro soon.


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## 92g60gti (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_jeff, i would love to have you look at this log... it is all over the place. 
also, are you saying that .79 in the O2 control log is actually lean? if so, i have to disagree with the car. it is really really rich

From what jeff said the computer is actually trying to pull fuel. What i said earlier i thought that data was o2 sensor voltage. I've only used a VAG a couple times. I'm used to the scan tool we have which displays o2 sensor voltage, and then long and short term fuel trims.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (92g60gti)*

I don't know if OBD1 has a good DTC for O2's. I know my car's O2 signal wire wasn't hooked up recently and there was no code stored and all my fuel trims were at 1.00. 
I have to do some more logging I would have sworn the OBD1 O2 data was in lambda but the fuel trims were in percent. 
It's stuff like this that makes standalone seem easy.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
It's stuff like this that makes standalone seem easy.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
It's stuff like this that makes standalone seem easy.


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

standalone is just as frustrating haha my car runs just as poorly as mikes!


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Yes but I know how to fix those sort of problems!


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

thats why your gonna come tune my ish right? its actually running way better than it has been, just startup/warmup needs work


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

i am at a loss. i am going to buy a new CTS, new O2, and build a new MAF. 
there is 500 bucks i don't have.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

01257 - Idling Speed Stabilization Valve (N71) 
31-00 - Open or Short to Ground* (removed, so not surprised)*
00553 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70) 
29-10 - Short to Ground - _Intermittent_ *(from plugging and unplugging while running, so not surprised)*
00537 - Lambda (Oxygen Sensor) Regulation 
11-10 - Control Limit Not Reached - Intermittent *(no clue what this means)*
00513 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28) 
03-00 - No Signal (*also no clue. the speed sensor plugged and unplugged makes no difference. is this not the VSS on the trans? should i look at the sensor on the dizzy? )*
thoughts???????????


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

burn the car to the ground then collect insurance money is my first thought.
The engine speed sensor is on the front of the block towards the drivers side (I think been a while since I had a vr) it reads the 60/2 wheel on the crank.


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## Dr. Shakalu (Sep 10, 2007)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_i am at a loss. i am going to buy a new CTS, new O2, and build a new MAF. 
there is 500 bucks i don't have.









Sell your turbo setup and you'll have enough for all of the above.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Dr. Shakalu)*

The G28 code is normal if you scan with the engine not running.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_The G28 code is normal if you scan with the engine not running.


yeah, i just found that from ross-tech. which sucks, because it is one less lead to go on.......
i am sourcing a MAF and trying another O2, if that does nothing, i am ready to slay babies. 
i will also try bypassing the walbro for the time being. i doubt that will help, but who knows.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

*ok, here are the cold start logs with maf plugged in...... notice for the first minute or so, i was blipping the throttle to try to get it to idle. then the idle drops, that is where i stopped helping it........ i unplugged the MAF at line ~50 on the graph...... you can see the idle steady right out to ~ 840. then at 128 i plug it in, and ~ 180 i unplug it again. *
















































*here is where the O2 starts reading...........*
















*then i turned the car off, and restarted it. this is all sensors plugged in, on a warm start.....*
















then, i reved the motor twice (blue line) notice the O2 control working....









so, looking at this, it is evident that it idles like **** with the MAF plugged in, and also that the O2 is indeed trying to compensate. 
so, i say MAF is the issue, BUT, there is no code, the ohms are correct per the bentley, and the dam thing seems to be fine SOMETIMES. 
WTF????????????

_Modified by Noobercorn at 12:46 PM 2-6-2008_


_Modified by Noobercorn at 12:48 PM 2-6-2008_


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## vwpunk (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MikkiJayne* »_I think the problem is that the MAF fails and starts giving false readings, so the ECU compensates. *It won't give a code for it, because technically it's working - just telling it rubbish*. 
When you unplug it the ECU makes a best-guess from the MAP sensor, which is closer to what the engine needs than the dodgy MAF signal.
It probably should record a code with the MAF unplugged, but it might not give a CEL from it (if you even have a CEL?).


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vwpunk)*

ah, i we do not have a MAP sensor mike. we have O2 and TPS to compensate for the MAF being junk. 
BUT, if you recall, a few days ago i was thinking i needed a TPS because my car would fall on it's face when i unplugged the MAF. 
now, it is actually better when i unplug the MAF. so, what gives?


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

what kind of car do you own? 
that is your answer


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_what kind of car do you own? 
that is your answer

Root cause right there.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

thank you for the help paul and chris.......


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## crazysccrmd (Mar 31, 2006)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_i am at a loss. i am going to buy a new CTS, new O2, and build a new MAF. 
there is 500 bucks i don't have.










you shouldnt need a new CTS, it seems to be working fine in your logs, with temp steadily increasing as the engine runs longer


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (crazysccrmd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazysccrmd* »_
you shouldnt need a new CTS, it seems to be working fine in your logs, with temp steadily increasing as the engine runs longer

yeah, i know. but i am going to do it anyway. mine is old, so why not, if it helps be 100% sure about other things.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

new FPR, 3.0 bar, not the factory 4 bar it is supposed to be, and it is WAYYYYYYYYY better!!!!!!!1
logs and info to follow.


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

hrmmmm does it start up better than it had been? with the walbro or do u have that bypassed


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

car is cooling down now. i put the 3 bar in warm though. started instantly, and ran like a raped ape. idled like a champ. 
now, the software was written for 4 bar, so i am worried about high boost, but at ~ 14, it was dam near flawless. 
walbro STILL IN!!!! 
once it is cooled, i will try it again, and see what happens. 
also, my O2 "request" was WAYYYY different. it was hunting, not pegging, like i hoped!!!!!!
this could be a new start for this car. i was gonna burn it to the ground earlier.........


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

adjustable fpr in the works?


----------



## crazysccrmd (Mar 31, 2006)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_now, the software was written for 4 bar, so i am worried about high boost, but at ~ 14, it was dam near flawless. 


are you sure about that? i know the 95 mk3 vr6 (obd1 coilpack) came factory with a 4bar but the c2 software was written for a 3bar. when i had my 4bar still in i was rich as hell in boost, low 10s


----------



## radoman57 (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: (crazysccrmd)*

The adjustable fpr(in my case) is a workaround really, I think the chip(software) was written for budda92slc and he just converted to obd2. I was so rich with my 4bar it just sputtered, my wideband starts at 10afr and it just pegged it. turning the fuel pressure down just compensates for too much fuel. I'm down to about 32 psi and my afr's are around 11.5 to 11.8, when I turned it down further, trying to get in the 12 range it runs funny out of boost, suprisingly though it runs pretty good at it's setting now, it's in the 40 degree range outside though so when it warms up it may be a different story, only time will tell. another possible way is to divert some of the feul flow, jeffnes recomended a flow control valve after the inline pump and diverting it back to the return line, I may try it in the future. under boost it's just throttle position and the mass air flow meter that sets the injector pulse width(amount of fuel) so decreasing fuel pressure decreases fuel quantity.


----------



## 2.2lcivic (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (Noobercorn)*

have you put new spark plugs in it after you went through all that bull**** ?








(**** PM 2/7/2008) DaveF: also, the bov, does it recirculate or vent to atmosphere ? , what are them 2 holes on the intake tube ? im assuming one is for the BOV recirc ? and the other ? where does it lead too ? 






_Modified by 2.2lcivic at 4:27 PM 2-7-2008_


----------



## 92g60gti (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (2.2lcivic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.2lcivic* »_ have you put new spark plugs in it after you went through all that bull**** ?








(**** PM 2/7/2008) DaveF: also, the bov, does it recirculate or vent to atmosphere ? , what are them 2 holes on the intake tube ? im assuming one is for the BOV recirc ? and the other ? where does it lead too ? 

That other bung is where the pcv reroutes back into the intake. (it comes from the valve cover and goes right down to there.)


----------



## 92g60gti (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_car is cooling down now. i put the 3 bar in warm though. started instantly, and ran like a raped ape. idled like a champ. 
now, the software was written for 4 bar, so i am worried about high boost, but at ~ 14, it was dam near flawless. 
walbro STILL IN!!!! 
once it is cooled, i will try it again, and see what happens. 
also, my O2 "request" was WAYYYY different. it was hunting, not pegging, like i hoped!!!!!!
this could be a new start for this car. i was gonna burn it to the ground earlier.........

But the obvious question is, why did it for the most part run fine before even with that 4bar in? You think it's possible that your 4bar just crapped out and isn't regulating anymore? Just for peace of mind i would probably get a fuel pressure gauge, and put that 4bar back in to see what you have for pressure then take it from there. Putting the 3bar in it could possibly be just throwing a bandaid over the real problem. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (92g60gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *92g60gti* »_
But the obvious question is, why did it for the most part run fine before even with that 4bar in? You think it's possible that your 4bar just crapped out and isn't regulating anymore? Just for peace of mind i would probably get a fuel pressure gauge, and put that 4bar back in to see what you have for pressure then take it from there. Putting the 3bar in it could possibly be just throwing a bandaid over the real problem. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

well, it has always been rich, but not as bad as it was. my only thought here, is that once we cleared the codes in the ECU, it had to re-adapt. 
but to be 100% honest, i don;'t kow. i do know that the original tune was written on a 4 bar FPR, and that VWPUNKs car runs well with it, but he does not have a walbro. 
i also know that radoman57 has a walbro, and had the same issues i have, and is now running 2.1 bar fuel pres, with good results. 
so i wonder if the 42# dizzy tune was written without a walbro, and therefore makes WAY too much fuel get sprayed with the walbro. 
it makes sense a little bit....


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

If you had standalone you could have hit the - button a few times and been happy








PS: call me if you still need to stop by


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_If you had standalone you could have hit the - button a few times and been happy








PS: call me if you still need to stop by

PK, i just realized something. 
my timing in the logs is in BTDC (BEFORE top dead center obviously)
in other logs as well, i notice that it is all over the place, and is upwards of a value of 30 in those logs. 
is that indicatiiing that the car is pulling 30 degrees there? and if so, how? my understanding is that i don't have that much pull available?
also, how the eff is fastslc's logs in ATDC, as in AFTER. we have the same ECU. wtf did i miss?


----------



## vwpunk (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_but to be 100% honest, i don;'t kow. i do know that the original tune was written on a 4 bar FPR, and that VWPUNKs car runs well with it, but he does not have a walbro.

Mike my car runs like **** out of boost but when in boost smooths out and runs rich. I realized yesterday when I let a buddy of mine drive the car, being in the passenger seat, you don't notice any of the hiccups you notice when in the driver seat. At h2oi when I drove and you were in the pass. seat of my car, you didn't really feel it because in the passenger seat you don't notice it!
I switched yesterday to a 3 bar. My AEM wideband reads 10 as full rich and 18 as full lean. At idle my gauge read high 17's, then 18 alot, then it would blank out meaning no fuel full lean.
At boost w/ the 4 bar I was PEGGED at 10 @ WOT and NEVER once saw anything aside from 10, not even 10.1. Now when I switched to the 3 bar yesterday, at WOT it was reading 12-13 which is perfect.
My only problem is when I dyno'd a few weeks ago, I had the 4 bar FPR in the car, my gauge at WOT on the dyno was pegged at 10 for all 4 runs, but my afr's on the dyno chart told me my fueling was almost dead on perfect. So obviously my AEM gauge is off. Now if my gauge read 10 on the dyno but it was really 12-13, now w/ the 3 bar it reads 12-13 on my gauge does that really mean I'm actually running lean like 15-17?
For the past month I've been thinking about swapping to obd2 and seeing if that would solve my problems and when Mike told me to try swapping FPR's I figured that would be an awesome alternative to going obd2. Well the FPR didn't do anything to solve my driveability issues, it leaned the car out (not sure if it's too lean now) so I think I'm still going obd2


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

Your wideband is prob a ISHload more accurate than the sensor on that dyno. I would take the afr's we got that day with a grain of salt. If you were hitting 15-18 afr's you would be pulling timing / pinging also unlike running rich running lean is very apparent in power / the way the car feels.
I would put the 4 bar back in or better yet an adjustable fpr. 



_Modified by chrisbmx68 at 11:21 AM 2-8-2008_


----------



## vwpunk (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Thanks Chris. The only thing is I've heard that AEM widebands are the lower quality (less accurate) of the gauges out there, had I know this before I went turbo I would have bought a better one. Would you suggest getting a new more accurate wideband?
Also what confuses me is that w/ the 4 bar I'm reading just about right at idle (according to my gauge) and then at WOT I'm full rich pegged at 10. I basically need a FPR that will keep me where I am at idle but lean me out a bit at WOT.
The 3 bar leaned me out too much at idle and just enough at WOT.
W/ an adjustable FPR I'm not sure if that's going to do anything since you can only make one adjustment, also I don't think a rising rate FPR will do anything because I would need it to be richer at idle and leaner at WOT.


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

mike, i agree with chris. that dyno day was a little hokee. 
regardless, i think you should go back to the 4 bar until you put a walbro in. radoman57 and i have the (basically) identicle issues, and setup, and we both have a walbro. 
PK, did you see my question about the BTDC vs ATDC?


----------



## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

You could go to Megasquirt for less than the cost of going to OBD2 and your hands won't be tied anymore.


----------



## vwpunk (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (DieGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DieGTi* »_You could go to Megasquirt for less than the cost of going to OBD2 and your hands won't be tied anymore.









I'm not being sarcastic at all but if you can tell me where I can get megasquirt (and have it installed cause I know nothing about it) for less than $450 I'd consider it. But that's what I'm getting my obd2 setup for and I think that's an insane deal.

_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_regardless, i think you should go back to the 4 bar until you put a walbro in. radoman57 and i have the (basically) identicle issues, and setup, and we both have a walbro. 

Do you really think the walbro will help me out in my situation? I mean was the software written w/ the walbro in the equation?
Also, was the software written taking into account methanol? (I know it's not spraying at idle but...)
Does meth make a difference w/ the software at WOT when its spraying?



_Modified by vwpunk at 11:43 AM 2-8-2008_


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

Meth will def change the AFR reading you get
DIY autotune for megasquirt junk
Paul for technical assistance lol 
The dyno day wasn't hokey their wideband sensor just got trashed / kept falling out on mikes car. It happens. 
P>S> dont bother with the walbro unless your leaning out badly on the top end


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vwpunk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpunk* »_
Do you really think the walbro will help me out in my situation? I mean was the software written w/ the walbro in the equation?
Also, was the software written taking into account methanol? (I know it's not spraying at idle but...)
Does meth make a difference w/ the software at WOT when its spraying?


if you are going to turn the boost up you will eventually over work the fqactory pump. but, i don't think you need the walbro just yet. 
also, MS is a great idea, and i know a ton of peeps love it, but when broke, it is a rough call. 
i think ~ 1200 installed and tuned is a hell of a deal, but who has 1200 sitting around while owning a rado?
also, the BTDC thing, i notice while under ~ 55% load, at ~ 93 % throttle angle, i am readin ~ 21 BTDC. that tells me it is pulling a fer degrees, but how many? the highest timing i see is 38.3 BTDC, which is before boost (2900 rpms). but am i then pulling 17 degrees? what is the "standard scale"
also, how the hell am i pulling timing with a ton of meth, an FMIC, and cold ambient temps?


----------



## vwpunk (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

The one thing I have noticed is that if I start my car (cold start), let it warm up and take it for a drive it's not really that bad of a ride. As soon as I boost for the first time, after that it drives like ****. Does that mean anything?


----------



## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

*Re: (vwpunk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpunk* »_
I'm not being sarcastic at all but if you can tell me where I can get megasquirt (and have it installed cause I know nothing about it) for less than $450 I'd consider it. But that's what I'm getting my obd2 setup for and I think that's an insane deal.


http://www.diyautotune.com
$193 for the ECU kit. * You *will be paid in the currency of education and experience for the install. I strongly recommend that you research, build, install and tune your own setup unless you're physically or mentally handicapped in a way that would prevent you from doing so. I had my Megasquirt done for far less than $450 but there was more down time than if I had swapped to OBD2. I also know exponentially more than if I had just slapped in an obd2 system.
At this point, there are a decent number of Vr6 setups running on Megasquirt. Paul can answer a lot of questions and so can I. We probably shouldn't make this a thread about MS so feel free to PM me with any more questions and I'll do my best to answer.
[/QUOTE] 

_Quote »_
Do you really think the walbro will help me out in my situation? I mean was the software written w/ the walbro in the equation?
Also, was the software written taking into account methanol? (I know it's not spraying at idle but...)
Does meth make a difference w/ the software at WOT when its spraying?
_Modified by vwpunk at 11:43 AM 2-8-2008_
 
The pump won't make a difference as it does nothing for increasing fuel pressure at idle or part throttle cruising over your stock pump unless your stock pump was just about dead. Your fpr will simply let more fuel return to the fuel tank. I would guess that you would probably need a pump with an output 5-6 times that of the Walbro to begin to give your stock fpr and return line an issue with dispensing of the unused fuel at the rail. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## radoman57 (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

I didn't have an issue running rich until I did the inline pump but.....anything over 13 or 14 psi it ran lean and really the car was no faster than stage 1 at that point. I thought that with the inline pump the stock fpr couldn't return enough fuel so the pressure would build up so I went with an aeromotive adustable fpr. really the same issue happened, running rich under boost. so turning down the fuel pressure to get the right afr's under boost is a sort of bandaid but it works for now. I think when jeffnes wrote this chip, the setup he was using was different enough than what we are doing(my best guess)
I have 3 different mafs, have tried 2 of them, one I'm keeping in its original housing, they all act a little different but on a stock motor they would work fine I'm sure. and yes, try setting your afr's without the meth, if fact the way mine runs now, it doesn't pull timimg without it and pulls just as hard without it, my guess is it's still running rich enough to not need it but I'm running it anyway with the smaller nozzle, the 175ml one. alos it's been cold out so it may pull timing without the meth once it warms up out.


----------



## vwpunk (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (DieGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DieGTi* »_The pump won't make a difference as it does nothing for increasing fuel pressure at idle or part throttle cruising over your stock pump unless your stock pump was just about dead.

Exactly what I was thinking.
As for the MS, I'll hit you up if you don't mind so I don't steal noob's thread.
Thanks for the help.
My other question is:
Also I know meth will change my AFR's but when it came time to writing c2's software, would the use of methanol require a change in software?


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vwpunk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpunk* »_
Also I know meth will change my AFR's but when it came time to writing c2's software, would the use of methanol require a change in software?

here is a convo from jeff a few years ago......
(10:34 AM 10-17-2006) mikemcnair: how familiar are you with methanol/ water injection and it's interaction with 30 # inj, and your software? as you know i am eager to tuurn up the boost, and want to know the "limit" of everything, so i know the "high mark" to avoid. oh, i am on stock compression also, and am running a boost avtivated variable controller for the meth/water. (50/50 HEET(meth) and water) with a 375ml nozzle for the WI. 
(12:49 PM 10-17-2006) Jefnes3: 1: i don't like tuning a 'mix' as its un-repeatable.
run 100% heet/alcohol or 100% water.
2. typical systems dump too much too soon, and lack the adjustability to get it 'right'. 
3. it works 'like' lower compression, in that by itself you will likely LOOSE power (if properly tuned) if you just add 
this.
4. you need a wideband and vag-com tools to tune this.
keep turning up the boost and watch afr and knock retard.
keep afr around ~12 to high 11's and keep knock retard limited to ~6 deg (roughly) (there is ~15 deg retard available)(1:04 PM 10-17-2006) Jefnes3: the issue is consistency.... with 100% HEET you 'know'
how it performs, and 100% water, you 'know how it peforms....
how cna you be sure that YOU can mix the exact same ratio on EVERY tank or alc. inj. (unless you pre-mix like ~gallons and re-tune/verify whenever you mix a new batch)
(1:07 PM 10-17-2006) Jefnes3: watter is good for reducing intake temps and slwong down combustion.alcohol IS fuel, and is better at removing intake air temp than water. 
The fact that ALC IS fuel is why you can turn up the boost, as the inj. will likley max out.

does anyone have a thought about my BTDC question? it is perplexing me. 
radoman, what are you using as your scale to determine the ammount of timing pull?


----------



## radoman57 (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: (DieGTi)*

if you look at the stock fpr, the hole all excess fuel has to go through is at the most 5/32 inch diameter, trying pumping alot of fuel through that


----------



## radoman57 (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: (radoman57)*

I don't have vag com, when it pulls timing the power falls of a whole bunch and it's freakin stupid fast now like it's never been before, I mean just as boost hits in 3rd gear the tires light up


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (radoman57)*

you are still running ~20psi?


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## vwpunk (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_(12:49 PM 10-17-2006) Jefnes3: 1: i don't like tuning a 'mix' as its un-repeatable.
run 100% heet/alcohol or 100% water.

So by running either 100% meth or 100% water, does the software need to be altered?
By running 100% meth, you're raising your octane level substantially and c2's software is written for high octane pump gas (93 octane). By increasing the octane is that throwing off the software by stronger fuel but the same mixture of air?


----------



## radoman57 (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

yes, 20lbs, just waiting for some good weather to make a good video of some 3rd and 4th gear pulls, on stage one I ran 108 in the 1/4 mile, stage 2 at 15 lbs boost only ran 110 traps, still without inline pump, my seat of the pants feels like I'm up at least 50hp maybe more than that so I'm hoping for 120 traps maybe more


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vwpunk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpunk* »_
So by running either 100% meth or 100% water, does the software need to be altered?
*nope. i used to run 100% meth flawlessly on the 39# tune which is what he and i were talking about then.*
By running 100% meth, you're *EFFECTIVELY* raising your octane level substantially and c2's software is written for high octane pump gas (93 octane). By increasing the octane is that throwing off the software by stronger fuel but the same mixture of air?
*nope, all that would do is pull less timing.*


----------



## vwpunk (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

39# tune? What injectors were you using?


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vwpunk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpunk* »_39# tune? What injectors were you using?

30# you smart ass. it was a typo.


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## vwpunk (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_
30# you smart ass. it was a typo. 

This may be hard to believe but I actually wasn't being a smartass!


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: (vwpunk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpunk* »_
So by running either 100% meth or 100% water, does the software need to be altered?
By running 100% meth, you're raising your octane level substantially and c2's software is written for high octane pump gas (93 octane). By increasing the octane is that throwing off the software by stronger fuel but the same mixture of air?

effecting the octane isn't an issue the higher the octane the safer but the max spark advance is static in the software. You could run 100 octane all day with out and issue I would imagine. I think the problem with a wide band gauge is that stoich with alchy inst the same as gasoline henceforth throwing off the readings when you mix the 2.


----------



## vwpunk (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_
effecting the octane isn't an issue the higher the octane the safer but the max spark advance is static in the software. You could run 100 octane all day with out and issue I would imagine. I think the problem with a wide band gauge is that stoich with alchy inst the same as gasoline henceforth throwing off the readings when you mix the 2. 

gotcha http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

Just want to throw it out there that i could be completely wrong about all this just trying to help


----------



## vwpunk (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_Just want to throw it out there that i could be completely wrong about all this just trying to help









aaaaaaaahahahaha that brought a smile to my face!


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: C2 42# Dizzy VRT datalogging: interesting issues/tips/suggestions........ (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_
Air/Fuel Calculator 

i beleive there is a way to account for alchy here....


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

the meth isn't the underlying issue either of you are having. It may be compounding the fact that the chips you have arn't written perfectly for your motors.


----------



## vwpunk (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

could I have an internal issue w/ my motor?
Would my vac leak cause my symptoms? Bucking at part throttle?


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

no idea, lol welcome to the world of modifying motors. 
I wish I knew where my quart of oil was going every 200 miles but then again I really don't


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3671847


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

oh boy..............


----------



## radoman57 (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

I agree, either the software is close enough(so far mine is) or go to obd2, if I do the obd2, I'll wait till the 63lb. program is up and running, then kiss goodbye to the tranny


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (radoman57)*

see, i am thinking i can get this to run right without much more investment. the 3 bar FPR is already a huge step, and it was free. 
if not, standalone will be the next step, or the 630 OBD2 as well. 
but i am fearful with that too. if ido that, i might as well go bigger turbo, and ..............
you see, it builds up......


----------



## radoman57 (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

I'm pretty content actually with how it runs and drives and all the effort I've put into the setup to get to this point. I should be happy







as much work as it is to take out a tranny, it's probably the most suck ass thing you can do to a corrado


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (radoman57)*


_Quote, originally posted by *radoman57* »_as much work as it is to take out a tranny, it's probably the most suck ass thing you can do to a corrado

trans? you nuts? they are cake!!! tunign a VRT dizzy car: not that's SUCK ASS!!!


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

The timing numbers are in deg BTDC, which is what people normally call 'advance.' The dancing at idle is the ECU trying to hold the idle rpm with the timing, usually it jumps that much if you don't have the ISV installed or it's malfunctioning and not providing enough range for the idle rpm to be set properly. The low load timing can be pretty high (40deg+) and normally WOT timing for n/a cars is 35deg or so at full load. A boosted car would run about .5-1deg less timing per psi of boost, depending on how aggressive the tune is. Looking at your numbers they don't seem off at all. 
As far as MS, that's another story and I'd be glad to help whomever with information.


----------



## jasonknezo (May 17, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

mike just put it on megasquirt, obviously you know paul builds amazing ones. You should see the box/wiring harness he made for the itb bunny. Paul what you think about fixing this problem? An hour on a saturday with megasquirt installed haha? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif And then there is the launch control setting.....


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (jasonknezo)*

I already have done a distro VR6 and have a pretty complete basemap for it.


----------



## jasonknezo (May 17, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

paging mcnair


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (jasonknezo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jasonknezo* »_paging mcnair

here.


----------



## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (jasonknezo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jasonknezo* »_paging mcnair

mc who??


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

mcnasty


----------



## Dr. Shakalu (Sep 10, 2007)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

status update??


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (Dr. Shakalu)*

for now, nothign really. the weather sucks, so th4e rado is still in it's bed. 
i will get it out as soon as the weather dries up for more logs and such. 
i have to admit, i am a little bit surprised that no one on here knows the "requested" timing i should be comparing my logs to. perhaps someone will chime in. 
Matt, what's up with yours? how is it coming along?


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

ok, i started it up tonight, and it was PERFECT. car ran like it should. BUT, i put new plugs in first (at .023) and the car hasn't been started in a solid week. no vag com tonight, just experience,,,,,,
1) i could actually breathe while the car was running (that is a first)
2) idled like a rock star, after ~ 6 seconds of help. i even tested this by shutting it off, then waiting, then turning it back on. no issues what so ever. 
my AFR (per narro readings) was perfect, as was my idle, and my vac. i am gonna try to dyno in the AM to see if i can make it even better, but dammit, it sounded GREAT. 
oh, and the plugs i pulled, well, they look lean as hell, which is funny since i was flooding the motor with fuel..............
idle.........(after ~ 2 mins of running, nowhere NEAR up to temp, but steady)








VAC smack dab on............
















and, a steady stioch on the narrow band. this has NEVER happe nd before.........








now, here is my gripe:
why do 4 of these look wicked lean, when we all know the car was flooding out?








2 look ok, the rest, outa control lean IMO. 

thoughts?


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_
oh, and the plugs i pulled, well, they look lean as hell, which is funny since i was flooding the motor with fuel..............
and, a steady stioch on the narrow band. this has NEVER happe nd before.........
why do 4 of these look wicked lean, when we all know the car was flooding out?
2 look ok, the rest, outa control lean IMO. 

thoughts? 

get a proper gauge. 
the narrowband is a waste of your time. its not capable of measuring A/F. 'stoich' on it may mean 14.7, or it may mean its too rich for the guage to measure, or too lean, or EGTs are too high, or lots of other non accurate measurements.
you'll get a better idea of whats happening in the motor with a vag-com.


----------



## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
get a proper gauge. 
the narrowband is a waste of your time. its not capable of measuring A/F. 'stoich' on it may mean 14.7, or it may mean its too rich for the guage to measure, or too lean, or EGTs are too high, or lots of other non accurate measurements.
you'll get a better idea of whats happening in the motor with a vag-com.

I told u that from the first time i met u Mcnoob.. get a WIDEBAND!


----------



## jasonknezo (May 17, 2002)

*Re: (Vdubsolo)*

mcnair call me, i have that innovative in the box u can buy off me


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*





































10 runs today at the dyno said it is WAY too rich. off the charts fat. 
made 319whp and 364 wtq with sub 10 AFRs at 20 psi. yes, it is flooding itself out. 
this is with the 3 bar FPR, a new coolant temp sensor, and no codes, new pllugs, etc. 
after all ten runs, we decided that NO level of boost would help, it was gonna be fat as hell no matter what. 
car ran great though. for making as little power as it did, it feels good. feels strong. the charts will be up soon.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_
after all ten runs, we decided that NO level of boost would help, it was gonna be fat as hell no matter what. 


i dont understand people who think that turning up the boost is going to make their fueling more accurate. thats like going to vegas and betting all your money, because you're losing.
what are you maf readings?
long term fuel trims?


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
what are you maf readings?
long term fuel trims?

OBD1 dizzy bro. you find out how to log that info, and i will get it for ya. 
also, the boost was a test, to see if the MAF, O2, and TPS are functioning properly. that is why i tried it, ON THE DYNO. so i could chart the failures as they happen. 
but thank you for the constructive thoughts.


----------



## rado_speed (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

this is a complete uninformed, off the wall question based on nothing:
is it possible your throttle cable is tentioned too tight? I mean couldnt that give more fuel than nessesary? or maybe the screw on the t body?


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (rado_speed)*

nah, that will simply make me hit WOT sooner, but once you hit WOT, that's where you are. basically.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_

also, the boost was a test, to see if the MAF, O2, and TPS are functioning properly. that is why i tried it, ON THE DYNO. so i could chart the failures as they happen. 


no offense. but doing it on the dyno, is no less dumb than doing it on the street.
you can get the maf logs from the dyno operator, assuming you used their probe, and took the readings.


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
no offense. but doing it on the dyno, is no less dumb than doing it on the street.
*my fear is not the car blowing up. it is getting arrested, or injuring somone. thanks though. *
you can get the maf logs from the dyno operator, assuming you used their probe, and took the readings.
*I was the dyno operator, and I did not have a MAF log. i had my laptop in the car, and i have the wideband logs from the dyno itself, but where do you propose i find a MAF log? OBD1 Distributor logs remember, it is a LOT different than the rest of the VW world for logging.*


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

Distro cars log straight to tablets like Moses. There are fuel trims in one of the later blocks, like 5 or 6.
Most of your plugs look good, you want them to be 'tan' when taken out at low load. To really read the plug you have to cut ignition at WOT, coast and then pull a plug. The one on the far right looks fuel wet... might have an injector stuck open. If that's the case it would be stupid rich at idle (even misfiring) and then get closer to right the higher load (boost, rpm) you run.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

dear mike I <3 you you will get it running right. My advice call c2 and see what they think!


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_If that's the case it would be stupid rich at idle (even misfiring) and then get closer to right the higher load (boost, rpm) you run.

with the 3 bar it is PERFECT at idle. ~ 14.7 give or take ~ .2
so, what's next? where do i go from here?


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

p.s. get an adjustable fpr and a wideband before i slap you in the face. 
post a graph so I can see the afr graph. If your rich all around turning the fuel pressure down more should help but I think that isn't the root of the problem. I suspect your on the money dring cruse and light load then go pig rich at wot under boost. C2 tunes real rich under boost to begin with. 
a though was this chip written for 9:1 compression?


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_p.s. get an adjustable fpr and a wideband before i slap you in the face. 
post a graph so I can see the afr graph. If your rich all around turning the fuel pressure down more should help but I think that isn't the root of the problem. I suspect your on the money dring cruse and light load then go pig rich at wot under boost. C2 tunes real rich under boost to begin with. 
a though was this chip written for 9:1 compression?

nah, written for 8.5:1, not that it would matter though. the wideband is touugh cause i am broke. my buddy owns the dyno, thus the ability to run. 
the car does go pig rich under WOT. once the O2 is out of the equation (WOT) the car runs crazy rich. otherwise, not too shabby. 
so, this is a tuning thing IMO.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

yeah dude the chip is straight up tuned for too much fuel or not enough timing. No easy way to reduce fuel under boost that I know of. Unless you can get like a reverse rising rate fpr lol


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

or, change the signal from the MAF to the ECU........... not too sure about that, but it may be the only way


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

i suppose that would work its a less than elegant solution. Cant hurt to call c2 and ask how much $ they want to tame the fuel down a bit send them the dyno and what not. There may be other ways to trick the computer but im at a loss 

it could be a bunk maf still you cant really rule that out untill you try a different one as much as it sucks


_Modified by chrisbmx68 at 10:53 PM 2-16-2008_


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

yeah, i can;t get this one out, nor can i pay to get a new one, so, i am kinda stuck with it.......


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

i have PM'd jeff for input, so let's see.....
here is a weird idea.....
would it be possible to have a rising rate voltage flow to the pump? i feel like the MAF is feeding the walbro too many bad thoughts, and the MAF is saying "go a head injectors, put alll you want in there..."
well, if i could turn down the pump, that wouldn't so mych be an issue. 
also, what type of shop does one look for to get injactors flow tested? is there a "flow test" shop? or something more ambiguous? 
not that i need it, because it idles fine, and is great until WOT.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

f your fpr is working it shouldn't matter if you have 10 walbro's inline. the only way the walbro would effect anything is if your fuel rail /fpr isnt able to return enough fuel to the tank quickly enough. Therefore possibly building up residual pressure in the fuel rail. Far fetched but possible i suppose


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

so, what would make sense to try next then chris?


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

you could go through the fuel system and try running it without the inline pump. get an adjustable fpr (likely has a bigger return port)
try a different maf
get a custom tune
burn the car to the ground
in that order


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

yes, but from what you are saying above, the fuel pump won't make a difference due to the FPR and duty cycle's....








see, it keeps going round and round. there seem to be no difinitive solutions.....


----------



## radoman57 (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

if you look at the stock fpr, the return line hole is really small, I installed an aeromotive adjustable fpr, it's return line hole is bigger but not a huge difference. I can get my afr's in the mid 11's but am down to 32lbs. static fuel pressure and it runs a tad weird under 02 control this way. the chip is too rich for sure but I've im'd jeffnes about this and he doesn't seem interested in solving it from a chip point of view, only says the maf in the larger housing is the problem. 
this product 
http://www.maftpro.com/tgen2info.shtml
looks like it could work, it basically reduces the maf signal and is totally adjustable and the price is right. I'm working with them on some of the details as far as how to pick up a 5 volt rpm signal and some other questions. otherwise split second has some products that might work but at a much higher price. to go that route, might as well just go obd2 and be done with it


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (radoman57)*

final run of the day. no codes, car running great. AFR's dipped below 10:1 as soon as boost hit at WOT. i will have the AFR charts up asap. 
this was 20 psi.


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## rickyrunamuk (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

Get a fuel pressure gauge on to the return line to the tank.When I built my nitrous system I had wild'ly fluctuating fuel pressure until I installed a dedicated three eights return line to stabilize it


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (rickyrunamuk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rickyrunamuk* »_Get a fuel pressure gauge on to the return line to the tank.

will you please 'splain what that will do. sounds interesting...


----------



## rickyrunamuk (Sep 13, 2004)

Think plugged toilet. Inlet pressure and volume may be overcoming exit side of fpr and or rail and return line causing bleedback.fine at idle correct?


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (rickyrunamuk)*

yes, fine at idle. rich with a 4 bar FPR, perfect with a 3 bar. at idle.


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

Sorry to see you are still having issues Mike. Still have the same MAF in the car right? 
I can't remember his SN but a guy and his dad just did a build on a dizzy Corrado using the #42lb C2 tune and had to tweak some things. They posted a video awhile back. Maybe he would have some thoughts.
I'm sure you'll get it sorted but man going past the #30's on a Corrado seems to be a PITA. Custom MAF, inline fuel pump, driveability issues, intercooler etc. 
Good luck. Wish I could help but I'm not sure what your next move is. I would try to eliminate/rule out as many sensors as possible but after that it's the tune. At 10:1 I'm not sure you'll be able to lean it out enough w/ an adj. FPR. I'm thinking MAF or the tune.


----------



## jasonknezo (May 17, 2002)

*Re: (slc92)*

mike with did pk say?


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (jasonknezo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jasonknezo* »_mike with did pk say?

all good things.


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (jasonknezo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jasonknezo* »_mike with did pk say?

That he's tired of getting his doors blown off by a SC Corrado


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (slc92)*

FRIDAY ...dress warm








I just told Mike that Corrados suck and it's how it is. It'll be interesting how the 'solution' pans out.


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_FRIDAY ...dress warm








I just told Mike that Corrados suck and it's how it is. It'll be interesting how the 'solution' pans out. 








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Salt, gravel, etc. all over the road. Corrado's not coming out until all that's gone. More time to save $$ for wheels


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (slc92)*

I'm going to do salty, sandy burnouts all the way to the track. The BFG's don't stick for dookie in the cold. Got some new fronts for this year.. bigger, just need some gears.


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
I just told Mike that Corrados suck and it's how it is. It'll be interesting how the 'solution' pans out. 

yes, but WE ARE smart. FCT11 is in and ready. **** yuou all. i ned PK for an hour tomorrow!!!! 
paul, can i gt you here for cash? tomorrow?


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_

paul, can i gt you here for cash? tomorrow?

Hello Frisco!







Sorry man.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_
paul, can i gt you here for cash? tomorrow?

Don't ask me, ask my boss!


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

paul if you come to work on mikes car your also tuning my megasquirt can we get a 2 for 1 deal?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Throwing a Corrado in the mix makes me want to charge more.


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

car runs again......
paul, if you can, i would lik eot have you here for a bit some time soon....


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

What no phone call with the news? Damn! Call me tomorrow and we'll work something out. Maybe I'll make Jason drive me up.


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Maybe I'll make Jason drive me up.

this is needed.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

mike wait a week to have him up so i can get the exhaust done on the bunny.


----------



## vwpunk (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Mike is the beast running yet???


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (vwpunk)*

I don't think he wants to wait.


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

tune my ish open header then!


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Provide earplugs and a gasmask and you're on.


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

PK, your fone will be blowing up in ~ 4 hours. your wallet will be too, if you can come up here. 
for real. i need yer help. got plans any time from now til sunday? any evening? or weekend day? 
whenever you are free, i can be as well.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

Call me after 4 I'll talk to the boss.


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

in the interim, how can i see MAF signal on vag com bro? i cna't find it, and am being asked for it.


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

you have to ask jeff. last time i asked him, he said you can measure indirectly BUT he did not elaborate.
so .. good luck mate
d


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (fastslc)*

I think you have to do a calculation to the load number using rpm as well. Not sure on specifics.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

that sounds super fun mike or paul let me know when and if this is happening, if i cant get my car tuned id at least like to come hang out


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

paul, talk to me off line so chris doesn't hear. we can gossip about him, and his "three digit" number........
JK, of course you will know chris. i will call you after calling PK.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

Just don't make me hate Corrados even more, I already part them out on sight.


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Just don't make me hate Corrados even more, I already part them out on sight.


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (slc92)*

steve, you have no room to talk, Mr. "my corrado runs flawlessly".........


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_steve, you have no room to talk, Mr. "my corrado runs flawlessly".........









You had to get greedy and try and join the 400whp crowd.







Should have stayed with the simple 30# setup. Your old car ran great and was a beast.
My opinion. Lose the spacer, 42#'s, custom MAF, and headaches.







Run an intercooled,10-12psi, 30# setup, 300whp, reliable as all hell, and as fast as the car has any business being. I know you won't but that's my take.
Not knockin your goals bro http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif It just never ends with these cars. 


_Modified by slc92 at 7:12 PM 2-20-2008_


----------



## jasonknezo (May 17, 2002)

*Re: (slc92)*

paul wil most certainly be in a horrid mood after this...


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (jasonknezo)*

steve, lets swap ecus fpr a minute..... serioiusly.


----------



## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

i may have to agree with Steve on this one.
my car runs pretty well. 
my buddies with the 42# setup have had to tinker more in the past, but not so much with the new chip.
so, i guess its a 50/50 on the 400HP crowd.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_

































































I had one for a bit and sold it before I had any issues. If everyone did the same people wouldn't hate them so much. I get the real #@($*#@ end because I get to work on other people's all the time.


----------



## jasonknezo (May 17, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

apologies in advance, i hear s4s are much more reliable


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (jasonknezo)*

If you think of it as a twin turbo, awd, four door Corrado you won't be disappointed.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

at least you dont need to pull the motor in mikes car to work on the turbo / do anything


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

no, you just have to pull the motor to change the MAF..........


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_steve, lets swap ecus fpr a minute..... serioiusly. 

Whatever you need. I'm off Sat-Mon so shoot me an IM or something.


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (slc92)*

noob.. stop ur quest for power.. oh wait u don't have those ! LOL
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DQ-jaJfx0TE


_Modified by fastslc at 7:25 PM 2-21-2008_


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (fastslc)*

i would trade my car for a 3rd gen supra, or an FD3 any day. i love them. 
some day, some day...


----------



## dapucker1 (Sep 13, 2004)

mike, wait til u meet my buddy carl.... 1000+ whp '95 supra, 550hp 16vt scirocco, and 400hp 944 turbo... all perfect, show worthy cars that perform... his garage is more then boner-ific


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (dapucker1)*

wow. must meet car,,,,,,,,


----------



## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

Mike...you ever find out what caused the 00553 code? I got the exact same one a few days ago. The CEL came on (car sputtered for a few seconds and died) for a second then went away. I scanned the car and got the 00533 short to ground code. That was a few days ago and the cars been driving fine since.


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (DieGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DieGTi* »_You could go to Megasquirt for less than the cost of going to OBD2 and your hands won't be tied anymore.









i want to relive this conversation. i would like to see the standalone options that are less expensive than an OBD2 swap please.


----------



## cliffhuxtable (Jun 30, 2004)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

hey mike, cant seem to im you, so sorry for the unrelated post but are you hitting the bbq @ awe today? 6 moths and STILL no ecodes!


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (cliffhuxtable)*

my email is [email protected] if that helps. 
if you are heading to the GTG, you should come to my shop tonight, we have a LOT going on and could use a hand. email me for more details. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_
i want to relive this conversation. i would like to see the standalone options that are less expensive than an OBD2 swap please. 


Pretty inexpensive if you do it yourself, I have a long writeup on VR6 distro to MS in the SEM forum.


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

PK:
yeah, i have been watching that thread for a while. it is a little over my head, but i will revisit it. 
BUT, then i would need you to step in, and talk to me about that VRT basemap you have.....


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

I'm putting another SLC on MS with 60#ers and a 60-1/.58 soon. Probably be a 420ish whp pump setup, not a bad starting point for you.


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

ok paul, PM time......


----------



## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

mike, 
why not just swap to obd2?
timing chain plate, coilpack, ecu. harness.
and a couple things im forgetting im sure. 
probably could be had for $500.
then UPgrade your C2 chip for $150 and youre set.
John is runnng over 460 wheel on the chip tuning from C2
do you really need more power than that?


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (jhayesvw)*

Interested as well. I may "need" over 300whp shortly







Looks like currently a new #42 Dizzy tune is not in the works so it's.
1) Standalone
or
2) OBD2 swap
Got some research to do


----------



## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (slc92)*

im going to swap the engine, trans, harness, 5 lug setup, and everything else out of my car just to get 4 doors and an obd2 vin #. so swapping just the harness and a few engine parts is no big deal. 
just do the obd2 swap and have a nice plug and play setup.
IMO.
or, do standalone and have it be fully tunable


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (slc92)*

Seems like a no-brainer.


----------

