# Fuel leaking past HPFP.........



## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

I need to get with one of you tech guys from KMD, AutoTech or APR if at all possible. I have a common occuring issue and would like to pick at your brain for a little bit. Just shoot me a PM if you are willing to discuss and I'll see what we can find out.
KMD is what I have the most experience with, so that would be best.....but any of you could possibly benefit from this. 
Thanks in advance guys,
-J. Hines


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## 08 passat turbo (Mar 29, 2008)

*Re: Fuel leaking past HPFP......... (jhines_06gli)*

contact rippie(i forget his #'s after his name) he knows aaalllll about the kmd leaking


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

*Re: Fuel leaking past HPFP......... (08 passat turbo)*

I know about the KMDs leaking as well.....ahve had multiple of them leak. I also know how to fix the issue!! It's just that right now, we can band-aid it and it lasts a while, but I'm more interested in a permanent fix! 
It's not one company or another's fault here, so don't want this thread to become a dispute like sooo many others have on this topic. I have seen all fail and it's all due to the same component(OEM component!).
Just wanting to talk to someone in one of the 3 leaders for HPFP kits and see what their take is on this. 
-J. Hines
P.S. I run KMD internals and have for 21K miles(V3) and LOVE IT!!! No issues and holds peak 134 BAR every time I pull through 4th! Hasn't let me down yet!!


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## 08 passat turbo (Mar 29, 2008)

*Re: Fuel leaking past HPFP......... (jhines_06gli)*

APR'a hasnt failed yet cuz they take the oem components out and put in their own...


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

*FV-QR*

I had the same problem and I JHines fixed it. It's not a problem that is HPFP manufacture specific as many people have come to believe. It appears that way because even if one replaced the 'defective' parts the problem reoccurs. There are multiple (more that three) people in our club that have gone STGII+ using various HPFPs and had the same failure. Josh has fixed all of those cars. If you want to know what it is ask him yourself...
Here's a hint....

Quote, originally posted by tyrolkid »
Absolutely. We have seen this on more than one occasion. The pump seals go bad, and the fuel vapors get ingested via the PCV system. Fuel trims go completely rich.
Quote, originally posted by Rippie74»
That is EXACTLY what happened to me. "



_Modified by SmithersSP at 10:37 PM 8-25-2009_


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

*Re: Fuel leaking past HPFP......... (08 passat turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *08 passat turbo* »_APR'a hasnt failed yet cuz they take the oem components out and put in their own...

APR replaces this seal that I am referring to during their rebuild and testing process.......that's where the issue is at. KMD and AutoTech specify to rebuild only the newest revision to have the "H" N276 valve, but do not state that you need a brand new HPFP, or at least very low mileage one! Either the source of the seal we are discussing needs to be found or you have to replace the HPFP in itself. Pump is made by Hitachi, so seals should be available, but the key is the HPFP needs to be like-new!!
-J. Hines


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

*Re: Fuel leaking past HPFP......... (jhines_06gli)*

http://www.audizine.com/forum/...42589
*KEY PHRASE THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT.....*
"4. Will not leak fuel into your oil system due to faulty or worn seals (it is easy to damage a seal when rebuilding a pump. In the case of the DIY pump kits, you won't know until you smell your oil and realize it has been diluted by gasoline. Not to mention, brand new seals are part of every APR rebuild)" [email protected]
-J. Hines


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## tjdaniels24 (Apr 30, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (SmithersSP)*

Ditto!!! I am number 4 here in the Charlotte area with the same problem that Josh just fixed. 
When it's good, it's REALLY good







When it's bad.....








I had a 1/2 qt of fuel in my crankcase








She's FAST again, but for how long?


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## [email protected] (Jul 30, 2007)

*Re: Fuel leaking past HPFP......... (jhines_06gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhines_06gli* »_
APR replaces this seal that I am referring to during their rebuild and testing process.......that's where the issue is at. KMD and AutoTech specify to rebuild only the newest revision to have the "H" N276 valve, but do not state that you need a brand new HPFP, or at least very low mileage one! Either the source of the seal we are discussing needs to be found or you have to replace the HPFP in itself. Pump is made by Hitachi, so seals should be available, but the key is the HPFP needs to be like-new!!
-J. Hines

If people are truly interested in a seal kit, I can make this happen. Our current seal setup is designed around our pump parts but a version can be made to fit the OEM diameter since all of the DIY kits maintain the OEM diameter when going through the seals (stepped piston design). Our seals are specified by internal APR designs/drawings so I just tweak the drawings/tolerances to work with the OEM diameter and there you go. 
However, there's one catch to this. If you want to replace ALL of the seals in the pump, we would need to include a seal housing/retaining nut with the seals already pre-assembled because one of the seals is press fit into the seal housing and cannot be easily removed or replaced. So, if you want to replace the lower seal, this can be done very easily. If you want to replace the lower seal AND the spring-energized main seal, then you would most likely need to purchase the retaining nut with pre-installed seals from us. There is also an O-ring on the retaining nut assembly but you can reuse your stock O-ring if it's not damaged. OR, we can also package the O-ring. 
I don't remember the cost for these parts off of the top of my head but they shouldn't be that bad. This is not where the major cost in the fuel pump design resides. 
J. Hines: Shoot me a PM and let me now what you are looking for and what experiences you have with seal replacement and maybe we can dicsuss the best way to go about this based on your evidence and our evidence.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

*Re: Fuel leaking past HPFP......... ([email protected])*

*"spring-energized main seal"*......this is the little guy that we are discussing. 
You have PM


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## biker187 (Feb 13, 2008)

go apr


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## 2pt0tee (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: (biker187)*

Curious about the symptoms of this... my oil has smelled like gas from day one due to the fuel dilution on these motors... so what else should I look for?


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Check block 32 via VAGCOM. If you are more than -5% you might be on the way to a bad seal. My reading was -20% IIRC when I had my issue!


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## 2pt0tee (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (SmithersSP)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SmithersSP* »_Check block 32 via VAGCOM. If you are more than -5% you might be on the way to a bad seal. My reading was -20% IIRC when I had my issue!


That's what I was looking for, thx for the info. Def don't think my fuel trims look that bad at this point but I will double check (107k miles on the car, running APR HPFP since about 55k).


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

You can install brand new seals in your hpfp & install a "kit" upgrade. It doesn't matter... we are talking about tolerances that are within 1000's of an inch. If its not dead on, forget about it.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

*FV-QR*

You sure about that? I mean I have a couple thousand on my MKD built. Originally when I put the KMD into an older pump it leaked. After I took the same exact internals and swapped them into a brand new pump (new seals) I was and have been fine. I think Josh has like 10K on his KMD with no problems. 
I remember you told me you had KMD send you a replacement and you still had the same problem. Did you place that second kit into a new pump or replace the seals? Just curious.
Thanks!


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (SmithersSP)*

I used the factory hpfp & the KMD hpfp internals & it lasted 4 months. The pistion seized. Then they replaced it with the _armoly coated version _& it failed again that same day in a BRAND NEW HPFP from the parts dept @ Summit VW. I drove around with gas sloshing around in my crankcase for 1.5 weeks, CEL's galore... etc etc...
With the time/aggravation & $$$ I spend between missing work, renting cars etc... etc... I could have bought *2 APR hpfp's*
I've been using KMD Tuning for years without an issue. I like them its just that whoevers making their hpfp pump kits or at least the 2 I recieved were not machined correctly.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.


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