# Requirement to Refresh the CAN gateway (Controller 19) after Controller Retrofits or Controller Removal



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

I am in a process of retrofitting a control module (#55, AFS2 headlight control unit) into my Phaeton (2005 model). All wiring is done, coding remains. Now, there is a problem. The CAN Gateway (#19) needs to have the controller list updated. I have already tried "recoding" the controller with unchanged data, but this does not make the new controller (#55) appear. In most other VW's, there is a long coding option for maintaining the controller list. But not on this one. There is a Coding II menu, but seems to me it only accepts 5-digit pre-defined codes which are nowhere to be found. 

A key issue here is, obviously, that the Phaeton of this vintage has not had the #55 controller installed from the factory. On the other hand, 2007+ cars have the exact same CAN gateway (firmware may of course be different). Yet there has to be a way to code this older CAN gateway, too, to recognize the optional controllers installed in the factory. Any information on how this is done? Browsing through the posts on the forum, seems to me that most retrofits have not required updating the controller list of CAN gateway at all (this was the case with the rear climate controller which I too have installed)? 

VCDS output from CAN gateway is as follows: 

Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl 
Part No: 6N0 909 901 
Component: Gateway KCAN 0101 
Coding: 0000006 
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000 

Jouko


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Jouko: 

To the best of my knowledge, the CAN gateway is a 'virtual' controller. By this I mean every VW product has the same part number for the CAN gateway. 

I kind of think you are not ever going to be able to get your 2005 Phaeton to recognize a new 'controller 55', simply because the car already recognizes controllers 29 and 39 for lighting. 

Michael


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> I kind of think you are not ever going to be able to get your 2005 Phaeton to recognize a new 'controller 55', simply because the car already recognizes controllers 29 and 39 for lighting.


 Thanks Michael. You might be right. Although this will not be the end of the road... Next step would then be to replace the instrument cluster housing the CAN gateway with a facelifted one, but with all the issues it might bring I am not sure I want to take that route... Let's see if there's an altenative solution. 

But, generalizing the question a bit, any experience on how the CAN gateway is coded for new (meaning retrofitted and OEM supported) controllers? Just recoding without any changes enough to update controller list? 

Jouko


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi Jouko, 

have you or are you installing the facelift LED lamps? 

Stu


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> have you or are you installing the facelift LED lamps?


 Yep. Its been straightforward to get all the lamps and leds working right, but I do not consider it done until I have the adaptive lights working right. I have some ideas where to go from here if recoding the CAN proves to be impossible. Yet this project might take some time to complete - I´ve had the headlamps in my garage since last fall...  

Jouko


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

jkuisma said:


> Yep. Its been straightforward to get all the lamps and leds working right, but I do not consider it done until I have the adaptive lights working right. I have some ideas where to go from here if recoding the CAN proves to be impossible. Yet this project might take some time to complete - I´ve had the headlamps in my garage since last fall...
> 
> Jouko


 Hi Jouko, 

any chance of an idiots guide to retro fitting the Headlights? I'm not overly concerned about the adaptive lights, I just prefer the appearance of the face-lifted items. 

Thanks 
Stu


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Stu: 

There is a comprehensive explanation about how to remove and replace MY 2003 - 2007 Phaeton headlights here: Retrofitting Dual Xenon Headlamps. 

That post does not address the same task that Jouko has done (replaced GP1 headlights with GP2 or GP 3 headlights), instead, it describes how to replace GP1 single xenon headlights with GP1 dual xenon headlights. But, probably 70% of the physical work (disassembly, etc.) will be common to both projects. 

FYI, the terms GP1, GP2, GP3 are used in Germany to refer to the model evolutions of the Phaeton. GP1 is the 2003 - 2007 car that most of us have, and the only version that was ever exported to North America. 

Michael


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> That post does not address the same task that Jouko has done (replaced GP1 headlights with GP2 or GP 3 headlights)


 Right. In addition to the physical install of the new headlights, a wiring adapter (a bunch of connectors and a few relays) is needed to get the lights to work. Then, you need to either get the adaptive lights to work or "retrofit" the new headlights with beam adjustment electronics from the original lights. I am not complete with this part yet, but will do a writeup as soon as the lamps are working to my liking. 

Jouko


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Thanks Michael and Jouko. 

Stu


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

As Michael already explained the Gateway is not a physically separate module but instead it's a virtual address which is part of the Instrument Cluster in the Phaeton. This is quite common on older models, newer ones often have a separate module but some low cost models are still using the virtual Gateway. 

That said, all Gateways have an installation list and while it couldn't be specifically modified on older Gateways like this the newer Gateway (no matter if virtual or not) do have an actual installation list which can be updated by a diagnostic tool. If an Installation List can be modified VCDS (similar to the VAS) will show you an "Installation List" button on the Control Module Screen. In your case of a 2005 things are slightly different...  

Looking at your scan/except, you'll notice that it uses a short coding... 


```
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl 
 Part No: 6N0 909 901 
 Component: Gateway KCAN 0101 
 Coding: 0000006
```
 ...but the coding will only allow you to toggle settings for +00002 = Brake Electronics and +00004 = Airbags. However, there is an additional note which VCDS should display: *Recoding (even with the same value) results in refreshing the Gateway Installation List (e.g. useful/necessary after retrofits).* 

So technically all you would need to do is to code the existing 00006 yet again and the Gateway will scan automatically for all connected modules and update it's installation list that way. 


As usual there is a but... 

Here's an example from a 2008 Phaeton which still has the virtual Gateway (the HW P/N is identical to the cluster) but with a long coding and an actual installation list. 


```
Address 19: CAN-Gateway Labels: RKS\6N0-909-901-19.lbl 
 Part No SW: 6N0 909 901 HW: 3D0 920 885 H 
 Component: J533 GW-K-CAN TP20 4227 
 Coding: FFF7FFFE3F1002
```
 In addition you can see component description *GW-K-CAN TP20* which stands for Gateway KCAN TP 2.0 while TP 2.0 refers to the Transfer Protocol, the one used on the top of the hardware CAN databus to transfer the actual messages. Your GP1 (through MY 2007) uses TP 1.6, an earlier version which usually is not compatible to the newer TP 2.0. All GP2/GP3 (MY 2008+) are using TP 2.0 which is probably going to be an issue because your new headlight module may not talk to the rest of your car properly.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Sebastian: 

Thanks very much for providing that information. 

One of the comments you made: 


Theresias said:


> *...Recoding (even with the same value) results in refreshing the Gateway Installation List (e.g. useful/necessary after retrofits).*


 provided me with knowledge that I did not have before - that being the fact that the CAN Gateway needs to be given the opportunity to 're-inventory' what controllers are present in the vehicle after carrying out a retrofit or changing a controller to a different specification. 

Several years ago, I tried to embody a Bluetooth controller that another forum member had successfully installed, and I had no luck at all with it. Now I know why - I did not refresh the Gateway list. 

When I get back to Canada, I will refresh my Gateway (Controller 19) by recoding it with the same value that is presently there, and see if that results in my 'newly installed' Bluetooth controller begin recognized. 

There is a discussion going on in another thread (How to disable the TPMS) about removing the TPMS controller (Controller 65) from the vehicle... now I comprehend why it is necessary to recode the Gateway (Controller 19) with the same value when a controller is removed. 

Thanks again for helping us all out. 

Michael


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

Thanks a LOT Sebastian! Just to make sure I got you right: 



> So technically all you would need to do is to code the existing 00006 yet again and the Gateway will scan automatically for all connected modules and update it's installation list that way.


 You're saying that even though the 2005 Phaeton CAN gateway was never mated with the AFS controller (#55) from the factory, it should - in theory - pair with this new acquaintance as long as they've got a mutual language (TP 1.6 in this case)? Good thing here is, that there's nothing that any other controller in the car needs to receive/understand from the AFS unit - it is merely piggy-backing the bus for the steering angle and suspension level signals. 

Is there any backward compatibility between 2.0 and 1.6? Seems to me that there HAS to be, but I suppose it is at the CAN gateway end, so the other way around as in my case... This is because there are controllers with the same part # used both in GP0 and GP1 Phaetons: these include, for example, air suspension, battery management... I mean that TP 1.6 controllers are installed with TP 2.0 gateway from the factory. So, I suppose, that it is possible the other way around but that TP2.0 controller does not talk with TP1.6 gateway? 

Looks like I'll have to try and find an AFS controller which uses TP1.6 and which can be coded for air suspension. I already figured out that the respective controllers in the headlights themselves are pretty generic (7L6 941 329 A - which is used even in various Seat models). I will look into Touaregs and A8's of late 2000's to see if there is any variant with TP1.6 and compatible air suspension... I would hate to install the axle sensor as there is all the info already available from the suspension controller... 

Jouko


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

@PanEuropean 

You're welcome! Let me know if you need anything else.  

@jkuisma 

TP 1.6 and 2.0 are "partly" compatible, not fully - that is for sure. To be honest I don't think it will work (at least not flawless), but then I am known to be a paranoid skeptic perfectionist - so even the slightest issue would count as "not work as designed" in my eys...  

The address change 29/39 > 55 might be part of the problem but we have seen similar virtual gateways work fine with modules on the 55 address, so I wouldn't say it can't work up to that point. The actual protocol used will most likely be the point where you run into trouble and since (as far as I am aware) there is no way via diagnostics to switch protocols. 

Since you wrote that the part numbers are identical, are you sure you're referring to models? Also when saying part number, do you mean the base part number (like 3D0-920-885 or the complete one including index/color code (like 3D0 920 885 H)? 

Parts from an A8 are not an option, Audi does a lot of stuff different. The Touareg might work but it had the same switch from TP 1.6 to 2.0 in MY 2008+ - so I don't think that is going to help either.


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> Since you wrote that the part numbers are identical, are you sure you're referring to models? Also when saying part number, do you mean the base part number (like 3D0-920-885 or the complete one including index/color code (like 3D0 920 885 H)?


 This kind of bothered me, too, so I had to do a quick check. I compared the scan from my car (2005 V6TDI) to a scan from 2008 model that I came across from the net (here): it is a V8 gasoline. 

Many controllers are "same type", but the 2008 model has a later revision, i.e. the last letter is different. But yet there were a few seemingly identical components: 

On V8 '2008: 

```
Fahrzeug-Ident.-Nr.: WVWZZZ3DZ88006060 Kilometerstand: 6780km 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 Adresse 03: Bremsen Labeldatei: 3D0-614-517.lbl 
 Teilenummer: 3D0 614 517 AK 
 Bauteil: ESP 5.7 allrad H33 0047 
 Codierung: 0008376 
 Betriebsnr.: WSC 01065 000 00000 
  
 Kein(e) Fehler gefunden. 
  
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 Adresse 15: Airbag Labeldatei: 3D0-909-601.lbl 
 Teilenummer: 3D0 909 601 E 
 Bauteil: 0H Airbag 8.4E+ H12 0935 
 Codierung: 0012360 
 Betriebsnr.: WSC 01065 000 00000 
  
 Kein(e) Fehler gefunden. 
  
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 Adresse 47: Soundsystem Labeldatei: 7Lx-035-4xx-47.lbl 
 Teilenummer: 3D0 035 466 A 
 Bauteil: 12K-AUDIOVERST 0118 
 Betriebsnr.: WSC 00000 000 00000 
  
 Kein(e) Fehler gefunden. 
  
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
```
 And the same controllers from my '2005 V6 TDI: 


```
VIN: WVWZZZ3DZ58002356   Mileage: 145920km/90670miles 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 3D0-614-517.lbl 
    Part No: 3D0 614 517 AK 
    Component: ESP 5.7 allrad  H33 0047   
    Coding: 0008356 
    Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000 
  
 No fault code found. 
  
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 3D0-909-601.lbl 
    Part No: 3D0 909 601 E 
    Component: 0J Airbag 8.4E+ H10 0935   
    Coding: 0012362 
    Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000 
  
 No fault code found. 
  
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 Address 47: Sound System        Labels: 7Lx-035-4xx-47.lbl 
    Part No: 3D0 035 466 A 
    Component: 12K-AUDIOVERST      0118   
    Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000 
  
 No fault code found. 
  
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
```
 Don't know if this is much of interest for anybody, but just had to check if my memory served me right...  



> The address change 29/39 > 55 might be part of the problem but we have seen similar virtual gateways work fine with modules on the 55 address, so I wouldn't say it can't work up to that point.


 Thanks for the encouragement! I now have a plan on how to proceed: 

- source TP1.6 compatible AFS2 controller (if any exists) 
- try to pair it with the CAN controller 
> If fail, forget the plans for the AFS and replace headlight controllers with original units to regain original level control 
- if pairing is a success, see if the AFS is able to read steering and level signals from the bus 
> If no success with steering angle, ditch the AFS and revert to original 
> If steering angle works, but level control from air suspension doesn't, add mechanical level sensors 

Let's see how this turns out. Proves out to be quite an involving retrofit but I'm not giving up! 

Jouko


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

Hi Jouko, 

One thing I noticed is the part number for the GP3 Phaeton cornering light controller is the same as the 2006 - 2009 Touareg cornering light controller (7L6 907 357 C), so I would hope that you could have some success with your installation - prior to this part number, the 2004 - 2005 Touareg controller had a suffix of "A" (7L6 907 357 A), so if for whatever reason the newer controller doesn't work you might try the previous version... 

Another note: on page 10 of Self-study Programme 335 - Cornering Light System there is a paragraph stating that the lights do not swivel at speeds under 10 km/h, so bear in mind if you get everything hooked up and it appears not to work, take it out for a spin to double-check!


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## Jim_CT (Jan 25, 2006)

*Refreshing the CAN Gateway*

Michael, 

I am pretty sure you posted about this feature deep in another Forum thread sometime ago, as I had found that post and it allowed me to complete the TPMS disabling procedure. 

This specific "refreshing the CAN Gateway" discussion would be a very good addition to the FAQ. 

Regards, 
Jim


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

CLMims said:


> Another note: on page 10 of Self-study Programme 335 - Cornering Light System there is a paragraph stating that the lights do not swivel at speeds under 10 km/h, so bear in mind if you get everything hooked up and it appears not to work, take it out for a spin to double-check!


Correct. The best speed to really "enjoy" the swiveling - and it is a fantastic feature - is around 30-40 km/h and with fairly large movements of the steering wheel. It also takes into account how long you stay in the turn, so a nice long one will give you a good demo 

I'm currently at a conference in London and need a Phaeton ride to Heathrow tomorrow... Walked up Park St last night and counted around fifty Bentleys of recent model years. Wow!


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