# HS Tuning RSR Clutch Kit Product Release



## [email protected] (May 30, 2013)

* HS Tuning is excited to announce the release of our RSR (Road/Sport/Race) Clutch Kit for the MKV and MKVI FSI, TSI, and Golf R vehicles.​Months of research and development have culminated in a clutch solution that offers unmatched torque holding without a compromise in drivability or reliability. Many hours of real world testing in a wide range of vehicles, from stock GTI daily drivers up to track driven big turbo Golf R cars, has resulted in a product that is second to none.

A long time bane of 2.0T owner's has been the factory clutch that would slip with even a software flash. An alarmingly high failure rate has deterred many VW owners from enjoying their cars to the fullest extent. The common solution has been to replace the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel with full race components. Although effective at preventing clutch slip, the noise, vibration, and pedal effort have been deemed unacceptable by many enthusiasts who use their cars daily for business, pleasure or commuting.


HS Tuning's RSR Clutch Kit offers performance without compromise. Proven to hold strong under the most demanding of conditions, yet with stock levels of noise and vibration, and no noticeable increase in pedal effort. By utilizing a self adjusting design, our RSR Clutch Kit ensures a strong clamping force in all applications, while maintaining a consistent pedal engagement height. In addition, the laggy feeling clutch engagement, commonly blamed on the clutch hydraulic system, is completely eliminated, resulting in a fast and positive clutch engagement with no delay.

We are thrilled to be able to bring our RSR Clutch Kit to the market, a solution that does not compromise driver comfort or performance. 
For more information, contact HS Tuning.*


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

So what exactly has changed? I see a stock pressure plate which may have been modified and stock-looking organic linings. Is there a reason why more pictures of this setup are not provided? What does the center hub look like?

$1k for just the clutch seems ridiculous since many of the parts resemble the $250 Luk OE clutch replacement kit.

Dave


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

crew219 said:


> So what exactly has changed? I see a stock pressure plate which may have been modified and stock-looking organic linings. Is there a reason why more pictures of this setup are not provided? What does the center hub look like?
> 
> $1k for just the clutch seems ridiculous since many of the parts resemble the $250 Luk OE clutch replacement kit.
> 
> Dave


I'm not sure what you mean by the question "So what exactly has changed?". Most, if not all single disc performance clutches are based on modified OE components. We used an organic disc in our kit because this clutch is meant to be used as most owners of 2.0T powered cars use them: daily driven cars that see occasional performance/track use. We considered using another material for the disc but after testing in multiple Stage 3 Golf R's, K04 GTI's, and Stage 3 TSI's we realized that we didn't need to. Kevlar has a long break in period, Feramic material can have a "judder" to it's engagement, ceramic is too noisy for what we were trying to achieve. The organic material has provided the smoothest engagement and has proven itself suitable even for occasional drag use. 

I don't want to sound too brash here, but this kit is simply a result of us getting tired of customers complaining about:

- Noisy single mass performance clutches
- Tiny torque capacity from the stock clutch
- Lagging engagement from both the stock and some performance clutches
- Abrupt engagement from clutches with metallic friction surfaces
- Extreme pedal effort from performance clutches
- Gear lash noise on decel. from single mass kits

So, we did something about it. We tested 25+ different combinations of stock components, modified stock components, and aftermarket components before we came up with a kit that solved all of those problems. I don't know of any other kits that have a self adjusting pressure plate that not only maintains a consistent pedal feel but also a consistent clamping force. The RSR kit also has a really positive engagement when shifting quickly. A lot of forum members and even vendors believe the stock and some performance clutches have a lagging engagement from the hydraulic system and replace the bleeder block or the clutch line. That's not the case, it's in the pressure plate and we spent a lot of time and money finding a solution for that. 

It sounds like you are a skeptic, which is OK because I am personally skeptical of everything. If you'd like to test one of these, please contact us. I'll put it your car for free, and I'll take it right back out if you don't like it. We believe in this clutch enough that I'm certain we can make a believer out of a guy who was willing to bust our balls 30 seconds after we posted a product release. We have nothing to hide. 

The whole clutch disc wasn't shown simply because we don't have a huge photo booth. I'll have our photo guy ([email protected]) take a close up of the 23 spline hub, and the friction surface of both the pressure plate and disc for you when he gets in tomorrow. 

As for the price for the kit, I'm not even going to dance around it. This is not a LuK repset factory replacement kit. In fact, the clutch disc is not made by LuK. They are expensive to produce, mostly because of the components used but the results have been worth it. Believe me, selling these isn't going to buy anyone here a beach house. It's taken far longer to get this to market than we'd hoped simply because we were trying to keep the cost down while still making it worth our time.

If you're local, please come out and test drive one of our K04 or Stage 3 cars. I know as an enthusiast I'd be skeptical of a small company like ours coming out with a clutch kit too, so all I can do is let you test one yourself whether it's in your car or ours. I'm certain you'd see the merit in having a quiet, smooth engaging, high torque capacity clutch in a nearly brand new car. It just doesn't make sense, especially for Stage 2 or K04 guys to switch over to a single mass kit for a daily driver if they are even a little sensitive to the noises those kits can produce. I'm sure you can appreciate that.

Feel free to ask any other questions here, or dial my desk directly @ 1-440-899-2404.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Interested in one of these, please PM


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

I don't see any flywheel in your kit.

Do you not include one ?

Is it based on the stock DMF ?

If that is the case that is a fail right there to begin with, since the stock
DMF is what fails first no matter what the other clutch parts are made of.

So please be a little more specific as to what flywheel you are using.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

definitely gonna be interested in this... 

165,000+ miles on the stock clutch & flywheel... and it slips on APR Stage 2 (on stock mode right now)...

.... I had a 14# flywheel on my old MK4 TDI.... so I hated the chatter. no one can really tell me the weight of the DXD flywheel...

Are there any plans to offer the LuK DMF090 replacement flywheel?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by the question "So what exactly has changed?". Most, if not all single disc performance clutches are based on modified OE components. We used an organic disc in our kit because this clutch is meant to be used as most owners of 2.0T powered cars use them: daily driven cars that see occasional performance/track use. We considered using another material for the disc but after testing in multiple Stage 3 Golf R's, K04 GTI's, and Stage 3 TSI's we realized that we didn't need to. Kevlar has a long break in period, Feramic material can have a "judder" to it's engagement, ceramic is too noisy for what we were trying to achieve. The organic material has provided the smoothest engagement and has proven itself suitable even for occasional drag use.


I like Organic clutches. I think the Organic disc is fine for 95% of users out there. I would just prefer a more aggressive than stock disc lining. 

Note how similar yours looks to the OE luk organic lining.












[email protected] said:


> I don't want to sound too brash here, but this kit is simply a result of us getting tired of customers complaining about:
> 
> - Noisy single mass performance clutches
> - Tiny torque capacity from the stock clutch
> ...


So 1,5,6 are referring to single mass vs dual mass. 2 has to do with the pressure plate and disc lining rating of the stock clutch, 3 is caused by the dual mass flywheel which you continue to use. 

Basically you're saying to keep it dual mass and continue to use the same stock luk components which you might have modified aside from spraying it black? 



[email protected] said:


> So, we did something about it. We tested 25+ different combinations of stock components, modified stock components, and aftermarket components before we came up with a kit that solved all of those problems. *I don't know of any other kits that have a self adjusting pressure plate that not only maintains a consistent pedal feel but also a consistent clamping force.*


The SAC is nothing new, it is designed by LUK and has been loved and hated by many. SPEC has been using the luk plate on their dual mass kits for a very long time now (est. 2006 or 2007?). 










Looking at your kit, the SAC has to be reset before the customer installs it. I hope you don't send it out like that with the springs so far extended. 



[email protected] said:


> The RSR kit also has a really positive engagement when shifting quickly. A lot of forum members and even vendors believe the stock and some performance clutches have a lagging engagement from the hydraulic system and replace the bleeder block or the clutch line. That's not the case, it's in the pressure plate and we spent a lot of time and money finding a solution for that.


Since you continue to use the factory DMF, I don't see how you can say that you've eliminated the lagging engagement. The DMF is the most influential component when it comes to engagement as by design, it is designed to dampen the rotational forces between engine and the drivetrain. 



[email protected] said:


> It sounds like you are a skeptic, which is OK because I am personally skeptical of everything. If you'd like to test one of these, please contact us. I'll put it your car for free, and I'll take it right back out if you don't like it. We believe in this clutch enough that I'm certain we can make a believer out of a guy who was willing to bust our balls 30 seconds after we posted a product release. We have nothing to hide.


Just tired of seeing different clutch companies posting pics of the same components painted a different color with part numbers filed off 



[email protected] said:


> The whole clutch disc wasn't shown simply because we don't have a huge photo booth. I'll have our photo guy ([email protected]) take a close up of the 23 spline hub, and the friction surface of both the pressure plate and disc for you when he gets in tomorrow.


A clutch disc is smaller than the pressure plate. There was nothing stopping you from taking pictures of the components individually. 



[email protected] said:


> As for the price for the kit, I'm not even going to dance around it. This is not a LuK repset factory replacement kit. In fact, the clutch disc is not made by LuK. They are expensive to produce, mostly because of the components used but the results have been worth it. Believe me, selling these isn't going to buy anyone here a beach house. It's taken far longer to get this to market than we'd hoped simply because we were trying to keep the cost down while still making it worth our time.


That is certainly a Luk pressure plate. If not, you should alert them to someone knocking off their patented design. Since they do not make any uprated plates for our setup, you must be using the factory component and modifying it to hold more pressure. 

There's plenty of clutch horror threads that started with the 1.8t that detail how companies use similar components and modify stock components to hold more power which eventually leads to failure of that part. (Foffa2002 is a good search term to start with) Proper clutches are designed from the ground up, not cobbled together from parts that will simply fit. So far I haven't seen much in the way of a true aftermarket clutch setup that is worth considering, other than the Sachs Engineering piece.

Dave


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I was looking at Sachs sport clutch (Using the Sachs sport pressure plate) as they appeared to provide the most OEM like feel while providing more torque handling. I will keep an eye out for reviews of this.


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## [email protected] (Dec 15, 2009)

crew219 said:


> I like Organic clutches. I think the Organic disc is fine for 95% of users out there. I would just prefer a more aggressive than stock disc lining.
> 
> Note how similar yours looks to the OE luk organic lining.


You're basing your opinion that our lining is no more aggressive than the stock clutch because of a single press release photo. This ignores two things. One, you cannot judge the lining's ability to hold under power based solely on a photo. Two, you're assuming that the stock friction material cannot hold under power.

We have removed hundreds of clutches from FSI and TSI cars, and have seen many clutch discs in various states of wear. We have never seen a clutch disc that is worn out prematurely because the friction material could not hold. It is always a case of the clutch slipping because the pressure plate clamping force isn't high enough for the purpose. We have seen some higher mileage road course cars that show some glazing and hotspots, but never to any severe degree. A clutch that has lived a hard life can be expected to show signs of wear and tear. But the fact is that all of the clutches we have replaced were slipping because the pressure plate clamping force was not high enough. The friction material we chose is based on many, many hours of in house and on the road testing, and there has not been an issue with it yet. The friction material has proven to be aggressive enough for the purpose.

If you prefer a more aggressive disc, then choose a kit with a more aggressive disc. However, I'd put good money on your more aggressive disc slipping more than ours (they did in our tests).




crew219 said:


> So 1,5,6 are referring to single mass vs dual mass. 2 has to do with the pressure plate and disc lining rating of the stock clutch, 3 is caused by the dual mass flywheel which you continue to use.
> 
> Basically you're saying to keep it dual mass and continue to use the same stock luk components which you might have modified aside from spraying it black?


1, 5, 6: Yes, one of the key points of our kit is that it retains the dual mass flywheel. Although there are horror stories of these flywheels failing, many of those stories are based on older designs. The current dual mass design on the market has shown to have an excellent lifespan. To each their own, some people prefer the single mass flywheels. Again, we have tested many combinations, and this one has worked flawlessly. If I had to make a prediction, I expect that you will see more and more clutch kits retaining the dual mass flywheel in the future, as the technology improves and the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

2: As stated above, the low torque holding capacity of the stock clutch has been found to be caused by the pressure plate design, not the clutch disc.

3: If you will, allow me to clarify this one point. *The laggy engagement of the clutch has NOTHING to do with the dual mass flywheel or the hydraulic system.* This is caused by the design of the pressure plate. If you disagree with this, then we are talking about different things when we say "laggy engagement".

We did not simply spray paint a stock LuK pressure plate black. Although based on stock components (which every clutch kit on the market is as well), we do perform modifications. This is not a stock LuK pressure plate, nor a stock LuK clutch kit.




crew219 said:


> Looking at your kit, the SAC has to be reset before the customer installs it. I hope you don't send it out like that with the springs so far extended.


Another misconception. There actually isn't an approved "reset" procedure for the self adjusting clutches. Although there is a lot of info floating around about how to reset the adjuster, LuK and Sachs no longer design their clutches to be reset. The pressure plate and clutch disc are designed to adjust/wear together. The recommended procedure is to replace them as a set, which is exactly what we do here. This clutch kit comes ready to install. Again, you're basing your claim off of the appearance in a single product photo. The pressure plate diaphragm spring fingers don't even move into their final position until the pressure plate is bolted down, so you cannot base this claim off of the static uninstalled appearance of the clutch kit.




crew219 said:


> Since you continue to use the factory DMF, I don't see how you can say that you've eliminated the lagging engagement. The DMF is the most influential component when it comes to engagement as by design, it is designed to dampen the rotational forces between engine and the drivetrain.


Please see the above text in bold.




crew219 said:


> Just tired of seeing different clutch companies posting pics of the same components painted a different color with part numbers filed off


Almost all aftermarket clutch kits are based on existing designs. They look like and will continue to look like the same components for this reason. They need to replace existing components, and work with existing components, and fit in the existing locations. I'd be more suspect of a clutch kit that doesn't look like the existing components.




crew219 said:


> A clutch disc is smaller than the pressure plate. There was nothing stopping you from taking pictures of the components individually.


True. This is a press release. We weren't looking to upload thousands of high res photos of this kit. It was designed to be compact and to the point.




crew219 said:


> That is certainly a Luk pressure plate. If not, you should alert them to someone knocking off their patented design. Since they do not make any uprated plates for our setup, you must be using the factory component and modifying it to hold more pressure.


This is a LuK pressure plate, yes. What Jeff stated is that this is not a LuK repset. This is our own combination of components that we have found work best. And we took great care to ensure to do as little modification as possible, thus retaining as much of the stock levels of reliability as we could.



crew219 said:


> There's plenty of clutch horror threads that started with the 1.8t that detail how companies use similar components and modify stock components to hold more power which eventually leads to failure of that part. (Foffa2002 is a good search term to start with) Proper clutches are designed from the ground up, not cobbled together from parts that will simply fit. So far I haven't seen much in the way of a true aftermarket clutch setup that is worth considering, other than the Sachs Engineering piece.


Every kit, even those designed by LuK or Sachs, whether a stock replacement or high performance upgrade, is created by modifying stock components. Some kits modify things to a different degree than others, but the fact is there is no good reason to design the kits from the ground up. The OE companies have already done that. They have supplied a base flywheel, clutch disc, and pressure plate design that work. The pressure plate hat is designed to be used in as many applications as possible. So is the clutch disc. You'll find that in almost any manufactured component. Why would they take the time to design a whole new system each time? The basic components are the same. They achieve the goal they need by modifying the friction surfaces, the diaphragm springs, the lever points, the damper springs, etc...

I could sit here all day and dispute the merits or drawbacks of any given system. The end result is all that matters. As Jeff offered, feel free to come test drive one of our cars, or we'll install one for you, risk free. Try it out before you start formulating opinions.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> You're basing your opinion that our lining is no more aggressive than the stock clutch because of a single press release photo. This ignores two things. One, you cannot judge the lining's ability to hold under power based solely on a photo. Two, you're assuming that the stock friction material cannot hold under power.
> 
> We have removed hundreds of clutches from FSI and TSI cars, and have seen many clutch discs in various states of wear. We have never seen a clutch disc that is worn out prematurely because the friction material could not hold. It is always a case of the clutch slipping because the pressure plate clamping force isn't high enough for the purpose. We have seen some higher mileage road course cars that show some glazing and hotspots, but never to any severe degree. A clutch that has lived a hard life can be expected to show signs of wear and tear. But the fact is that all of the clutches we have replaced were slipping because the pressure plate clamping force was not high enough. The friction material we chose is based on many, many hours of in house and on the road testing, and there has not been an issue with it yet. The friction material has proven to be aggressive enough for the purpose.
> 
> If you prefer a more aggressive disc, then choose a kit with a more aggressive disc. However, I'd put good money on your more aggressive disc slipping more than ours (they did in our tests).


So you're using a stock-like organic lining? 





[email protected] said:


> 1, 5, 6: Yes, one of the key points of our kit is that it retains the dual mass flywheel. Although there are horror stories of these flywheels failing, many of those stories are based on older designs. The current dual mass design on the market has shown to have an excellent lifespan. To each their own, some people prefer the single mass flywheels. Again, we have tested many combinations, and this one has worked flawlessly. If I had to make a prediction, I expect that you will see more and more clutch kits retaining the dual mass flywheel in the future, as the technology improves and the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.


How has LuK changed the dual mass flywheel for the FSI/TFSI engine? I want to know since I just replaced mine with a brand new DMF last year and it was 100% identical to the one I replaced. While the springs and the retainers did not fail on the old one, the rudimentary thrust bearing wore out and developed significant play. Many others report similar failures. I expect the new one to fail within that similar mileage as well. 

2: As stated above, the low torque holding capacity of the stock clutch has been found to be caused by the pressure plate design, not the clutch disc.



[email protected] said:


> 3: If you will, allow me to clarify this one point. *The laggy engagement of the clutch has NOTHING to do with the dual mass flywheel or the hydraulic system.* This is caused by the design of the pressure plate. If you disagree with this, then we are talking about different things when we say "laggy engagement".


Where's your proof? The restrictor in the factory bleed valve leading to the slave cylinder is designed to restrict flow in order to slow down engagement and disengagement. Removing that restrictor will speed up engagement and disengagement, however it can have negative implications on clutch disc and pressure plate life. (debated and verified by a technician for Sachs)










My point about the DMF is that it adds lag to overall power transfer because both halves of the flywheel will rotate and compress the springs within the DMF, thereby buffering the transfer of power from the engine to the transmission.



[email protected] said:


> We did not simply spray paint a stock LuK pressure plate black. *Although based on stock components (which every clutch kit on the market is as well), we do perform modifications.* This is not a stock LuK pressure plate, nor a stock LuK clutch kit.


So you modify a stock pressure plate. 




[email protected] said:


> Another misconception. There actually isn't an approved "reset" procedure for the self adjusting clutches. Although there is a lot of info floating around about how to reset the adjuster, *LuK and Sachs no longer design their clutches to be reset.* The pressure plate and clutch disc are designed to adjust/wear together. The recommended procedure is to replace them as a set, which is exactly what we do here. This clutch kit comes ready to install. Again, you're basing your claim off of the appearance in a single product photo. The pressure plate diaphragm spring fingers don't even move into their final position until the pressure plate is bolted down, so you cannot base this claim off of the static uninstalled appearance of the clutch kit.


Wrong.

http://www.luk.com/content.luk.de/e...ibrary/library-detail-language.jsp?id=3345091

The adjuster will never turn itself back. They are spring driven "wedges" which move the mating surface further towards the flywheel. It will never retract it. The disc will simply hang up on the mating surface of the pressure plate. 



LuK said:


> Using a special tool is an absolute must to ensure correct installation of the Self-Adjusting Clutch. *No counteracting forces must be applied during installation to prevent early rotation of the adjusting ring in the clutch pressure plate.*


Seems like they don't want early engagement of the adjustment ring during install right? 

They also make note to maintain the position of the SAC if the pressure plate is removed for servicing. 



LuK said:


> ...adjusting ring is held in position and the SAC’s current wear condition is maintained during re-installation.


If your theory is correct, then they wouldn't provide such warnings. 



[email protected] said:


> Almost all aftermarket clutch kits are based on existing designs. They look like and will continue to look like the same components for this reason. They need to replace existing components, and work with existing components, and fit in the existing locations. I'd be more suspect of a clutch kit that doesn't look like the existing components.


Big difference between creating a new component which is designed to handle higher loads vs modifying a less capable stock version. This is almost the same debate as replacing the K03 with a K04 vs modifying a K03 with new wheels . 



[email protected] said:


> Every kit, even those designed by LuK or Sachs, whether a stock replacement or high performance upgrade, is created by modifying stock components. Some kits modify things to a different degree than others, but the fact is there is no good reason to design the kits from the ground up. The OE companies have already done that. They have supplied a base flywheel, clutch disc, and pressure plate design that work. The pressure plate hat is designed to be used in as many applications as possible. So is the clutch disc. You'll find that in almost any manufactured component. Why would they take the time to design a whole new system each time? The basic components are the same. They achieve the goal they need by modifying the friction surfaces, the diaphragm springs, the lever points, the damper springs, etc...


Sachs did not "modify stock components" in their SRE clutch kit. They simply created a new set of components to fit. That being said, most aftermarket clutch companies continue to modify a stock sachs pressure plate instead of purchasing the uprated version from Sachs.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by the question "So what exactly has changed?". Most, if not all single disc performance clutches are based on modified OE components. We used an organic disc in our kit because this clutch is meant to be used as most owners of 2.0T powered cars use them: daily driven cars that see occasional performance/track use. We considered using another material for the disc but after testing in multiple Stage 3 Golf R's, K04 GTI's, and Stage 3 TSI's we realized that we didn't need to. Kevlar has a long break in period, Feramic material can have a "judder" to it's engagement, ceramic is too noisy for what we were trying to achieve. The organic material has provided the smoothest engagement and has proven itself suitable even for occasional drag use.
> 
> I don't want to sound too brash here, but this kit is simply a result of us getting tired of customers complaining about:
> 
> ...


Nicely said! :thumbup::thumbup:

I have an appointment to have one of these clutches installed on Tuesday along with an APR downpipe. I didn't realize you will install it for free  Just kidding. 
It's a 5 hour+ drive for me to get this done but I have confidence in your products and will post
my first impressions and will post updates on the long term use and durability. 
I have driven cars with Single Mass flywheels and besides sounding like an old diesel they also were very touchy in engagement and for a daily driver they are just not practical. Sure some people maybe hardcore and they may even track their cars every weekend but for me I just want something durable and reliable that will hold up if and when I want to do some spirited driving or even hit the track on occasion. A friend of mine went with a Spec Single Mass Flywheel in his Audi TT. At first he made up all sorts of excuses and tried to rationalize his purchase. He let me drive the car on several occasions and I didn't care for the clutch one bit. Sure it looks great on paper, less rotational mass, faster revving etc.. but in reality it's obnoxious and loud and the engagement was awful. Well, my friend went back to a Dual Mass set up within 2 months. 
So I am perfectly happy with a Dual Mass Flywheel along with a Heavy Duty Pressure Plate and Friction disk. Not sure why everyone here in the US is so set on Lightweight Flywheels when in Europe there a lot of clubs that race anything from GTi's to Scirocco's with DMFW's. 

Anyway, Cudos to you HSTuning and I wish you luck in your new venture that was customer inspired. At least you cared enough to do something many others haven't done and come up with a clutch that works and lasts without the noise, chatter and other issues. Thanks for listening. 

See you and Nate on Tuesday!


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> I don't see any flywheel in your kit.
> 
> Do you not include one ?
> 
> ...


You are so wrong. The weakest point in the stock set up is usually the OEM Pressure plate followed closely by the friction disk. Sure, once the clutch starts slipping and you keep on abusing it then the Flywheel will be scorched and in extreme cases can even crack and chatter. But the stock DMFW is good for around 425lbs of torque easy. More than that and yes you should check into an aftermarket Flywheel since you are obviously racing your car more than driving it to work every day. Check some of the Forums in Europe. There a plenty of car clubs that race on the weekends that use the Dual Mass Flywheel and actually prefer it over a Single Mass. But each their own. If your mind is made up that a DMFW sucks than it sucks no matter what anyone will tell you. Move along, since this clutch isn't for you.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

One of my friends has a big (single) turbo MK4 Supra for drag. To my surprise, he's still running the stock DMF.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

IndyTTom said:


> You are so wrong. The weakest point in the stock set up is usually the OEM Pressure plate followed closely by the friction disk. Sure, once the clutch starts slipping and you keep on abusing it then the Flywheel will be scorched and in extreme cases can even crack and chatter. But the stock DMFW is good for around 425lbs of torque easy. More than that and yes you should check into an aftermarket Flywheel since you are obviously racing your car more than driving it to work every day. Check some of the Forums in Europe. There a plenty of car clubs that race on the weekends that use the Dual Mass Flywheel and actually prefer it over a Single Mass. But each their own. If your mind is made up that a DMFW sucks than it sucks no matter what anyone will tell you. Move along, since this clutch isn't for you.


You are CLUELESS.

The stock DMF is a piece of sh*t and fails almost instantly when going above stage 1.

You will discover that yourself pretty soon.

Now go on sucking up and you might eventually get your "free install"....


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## lilfleck (Nov 28, 2008)

Interesting information brought out into this thread. The tldr version seems to be, it's modified OEM parts. The biggest difference that I took from it is that it has a stronger/better pressure plate which should solve the slipping clutch issue under higher tq/hp loads. 

@HSTuning, are you using a different surface material than the OEM clutch? I am curious because many folks have been doing okay with the South Bend Stage 3 Drop In. Granted, it is not organic, and not as smooth--it holds K04 power. 

I can also see that the main difference between this and the Clutch Masters pp/disc combo is that you use an all organic surface material which retains the OEM engagement feel (great for daily driving). The Clutch Master clutches are a combination of organic and other compounds. 

FX 100, $715= Organic / Kevlar (one on each side). This will hold a 70% increase or up to 340hp/tq. Although it specifies, "up to 50hp NO2 upgrade, or other non-forced induction external bolt-ons."
FX 250, $850 = Formula Button / organic (mixture of organic/kevlar on one side and "heavy duty organic" on the other). This will hold a 70% increase or up to 340hp/tq.
FX 300, $850 = all kevlar
FX 350, $850 = Formula Button (both sides). This will hold a 110% increase or up to 420hp/tq.

Also curious, does the RSR clutch feel exactly like the OEM pedal: numb? A big gripe I have is that this clutch doesn't give a lot of feedback to the driver. Great for average joe, but I'm not sure the enthusiast really likes it.

Did you consider/try any lighweight flywheel options? 

I am excited to see another clutch option out there. It's nice to have more options and better for the community. I don't think anything you guys did w/ this clutch was wrong. However, I am still not sure about the price.

All that being said, I don't have anything but good things to say about HS Tuning. They're a great company and are always contributing to the MK6 platform.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

IndyTTom said:


> You are so wrong. The weakest point in the stock set up is usually the OEM Pressure plate followed closely by the friction disk. Sure, once the clutch starts slipping and you keep on abusing it then the Flywheel will be scorched and in extreme cases can even crack and chatter. But the stock DMFW is good for around 425lbs of torque easy. More than that and yes you should check into an aftermarket Flywheel since you are obviously racing your car more than driving it to work every day. Check some of the Forums in Europe. There a plenty of car clubs that race on the weekends that use the Dual Mass Flywheel and actually prefer it over a Single Mass. But each their own. If your mind is made up that a DMFW sucks than it sucks no matter what anyone will tell you. Move along, since this clutch isn't for you.


You have a TSI. The TSI comes with a sachs pressure plate and flywheel. On the TSI, the sachs pressure plate is very weak. The DMF is also weak.

The DMFs wear and develop play because the center bearing is woefully inadequate for the setup. Also with 425ft/lbs of torque, you're sure to over-compress a spring which leads to increased play, break spring, or break a retainer. 

Less marketing material, more facts.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

IndyTTom said:


> I have driven cars with Single Mass flywheels and besides sounding like an old diesel they also were very touchy in engagement and for a daily driver they are just not practical. Sure some people maybe hardcore and they may even track their cars every weekend but for me I just want something durable and reliable that will hold up if and when I want to do some spirited driving or even hit the track on occasion. A friend of mine went with a Spec Single Mass Flywheel in his Audi TT. At first he made up all sorts of excuses and tried to rationalize his purchase. He let me drive the car on several occasions and I didn't care for the clutch one bit. Sure it looks great on paper, less rotational mass, faster revving etc.. but in reality it's obnoxious and loud and the engagement was awful. Well, my friend went back to a Dual Mass set up within 2 months.
> So I am perfectly happy with a Dual Mass Flywheel along with a *Heavy Duty Pressure Plate and Friction disk.* Not sure why everyone here in the US is so set on Lightweight Flywheels when in Europe there a lot of clubs that race anything from GTi's to Scirocco's with DMFW's.


It's not a heavy duty pressure plate. It's a modified OEM. Modified OEM pressure plates never quite are as good as the ones that are purpose built to hold more power. You can modify just the spring pressure but all the other components are likely to fail under lower loads.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...nd-clutch.&p=60646292&viewfull=1#post60646292

Check out the difference between the modified sachs pressure plate that most companies choose to use vs the actual sachs HD plate. 

Dave


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GolfRS said:


> You are CLUELESS.
> 
> The stock DMF is a piece of sh*t and fails almost instantly when going above stage 1.
> 
> ...


I'm still on my OEM clutch set up and it handles well with the power i'm putting down. So a stock DMF will not fail at just stage 1, not true!


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Clueless, lol yeah says the guy with a multi-year build full of fail.

I always thought the Sachs sport pressure plate with one of their disks would be the way to go, IIRC they are rated hold up to 400ft/lb with the DMF. They also have a SMF kit. They are both difficult to find in the US.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

GTI2Slow said:


> Clueless, lol yeah says the guy with a multi-year build full of fail.
> 
> I always thought the Sachs sport pressure plate with one of their disks would be the way to go, IIRC they are rated hold up to 400ft/lb with the DMF. They also have a SMF kit. They are both difficult to find in the US.


Thank you!


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

A3Performance said:


> I'm still on my OEM clutch set up and it handles well with the power i'm putting down. So a stock DMF will not fail at just stage 1, not true!


I believe you are dyslexic....Please read my post AGAIN.

I said the DMF fails once you go ABOVE stage 1.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> Clueless, lol yeah says the guy with a multi-year build full of fail.
> 
> I always thought the Sachs sport pressure plate with one of their disks would be the way to go, IIRC they are rated hold up to 400ft/lb with the DMF. They also have a SMF kit. They are both difficult to find in the US.


I believe your sig says you are STILL on stage 2...

That instantly disqualifies you from voicing an opinion on other peoples (especially BT) builds.

But hey let me give you a small tip in case no one told you.

YOU ARE STILL ON THE FACTORY TURBO FFS !!!!! 

I rest my case.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> I believe your sig says you are STILL on stage 2...
> 
> That instantly disqualifies you from voicing an opinion on other peoples (especially BT) builds.
> 
> ...


I wish you would. Rest your case that is. 
Unfortunately everyone (even you) is entitled to an opinion. You voiced it so you are done.
Give it a rest.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

IndyTTom said:


> I wish you would. Rest your case that is.
> Unfortunately everyone (even you) is entitled to an opinion. You voiced it so you are done.
> Give it a rest.


As i said install your kit (for free) and then have your road assistance number handy.
You will need it.

You may be trying to "defend" the kit, but that doesn't change what is gonna happen down the road.

Sorry....


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> As i said install your kit (for free) and then have your road assistance number handy.
> You will need it.
> 
> You may be trying to "defend" the kit, but that doesn't change what is gonna happen down the road.
> ...


Okay, I am done feeding you. Go back under your bridge. Bye Bye :wave:


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

122k miles on factory clutch and DMFW with stage 2+, no issues what so ever so I'm not concerned about the longevity/durability of the DMFW (or holding power for that matter). My problem is every uprated DMFW set up cost an arm and a leg, this one included.

I see the flywheel offered is a $700 "upgraded" Sachs flywheel. What's upgraded about it and can I use a LUK which I can get for WAY less (and proven to work just fine in my 122k miles and counting). I'd consider this option if so but as offered $1700 is just a little over the top IMO


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> 122k miles on factory clutch and DMFW with stage 2+, no issues what so ever so I'm not concerned about the longevity/durability of the DMFW (or holding power for that matter). My problem is every uprated DMFW set up cost an arm and a leg, this one included.
> 
> I see the flywheel offered is a $700 "upgraded" Sachs flywheel. What's upgraded about it and can I use a LUK which I can get for WAY less (and proven to work just fine in my 122k miles and counting). I'd consider this option if so but as offered $1700 is just a little over the top IMO


WOW, Nice! 122k miles on the stock clutch is Amazing especially with APR Stage 2+. (Not sure what the + means) What year GTi do you have? Perhaps the clutches in some of the older ones were more durable or you are one heck of a driver that doesn't abuse it. Which is great. 

Dual Mass Flywheels are more expensive than the Single Mass counterparts. So if you have to replace the DMFW it can be costly. But since you have no issues so far I wouldn't worry just yet. 
Looks like you are doing fine.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

IndyTTom said:


> WOW, Nice! 122k miles on the stock clutch is Amazing especially with APR Stage 2+. (Not sure what the + means) What year GTi do you have? Perhaps the clutches in some of the older ones were more durable or you are one heck of a driver that doesn't abuse it. Which is great.
> 
> Dual Mass Flywheels are more expensive than the Single Mass counterparts. So if you have to replace the DMFW it can be costly. But since you have no issues so far I wouldn't worry just yet.
> Looks like you are doing fine.


I have an 07' GTI. Stage 1 was the first mode I did and I'm sure I was under 20k miles and it was the first year I had the car. I went stage 2 at exactly 100k miles, they 5k miles later I added APR fuel pump, pump file and Golf R intercooler. To this point it hasn't even thought about slipping and I'm sure it can hold more than stage 2+. 

I want to stick with the DMF for all the reasons stated but I don't want to buy the $700 Sach one when I can get an oem LUK for $200-300 cheaper. Compatibility is my question. $200-300 saved is $200-300 saved!


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I was under the impression that MK5 clutches were much more durable than the ones found on the MK6.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> I have an 07' GTI. Stage 1 was the first mode I did and I'm sure I was under 20k miles and it was the first year I had the car. I went stage 2 at exactly 100k miles, they 5k miles later I added APR fuel pump, pump file and Golf R intercooler. To this point it hasn't even thought about slipping and I'm sure it can hold more than stage 2+.
> 
> I want to stick with the DMF for all the reasons stated but I don't want to buy the $700 Sach one when I can get an oem LUK for $200-300 cheaper. Compatibility is my question. $200-300 saved is $200-300 saved!


I don't see why the LUK DMFW wouldn't work with the RSR clutch. I bet you have a LUK flywheel installed now so Yes by all means buy the less expensive Flywheel and save some cash.


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## vwisthebest (Sep 17, 2003)

IndyTTom said:


> WOW, Nice! 122k miles on the stock clutch is Amazing especially with APR Stage 2+


2 is downpipe file. 2+ is upgraded hpfp file.





GTI2Slow said:


> I was under the impression that MK5 clutches were much more durable than the ones found on the MK6.


 It's not a matter of mk5 vs mk6. It's fsi vs tsi. Both engines are found in both generations.


Sent via Tapatalk2


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## vwisthebest (Sep 17, 2003)

IndyTTom said:


> WOW, Nice! 122k miles on the stock clutch is Amazing especially with APR Stage 2+. (Not sure what the + means) What year GTi do you have? Perhaps the clutches in some of the older ones were more durable or you are one heck of a driver that doesn't abuse it. Which is great.
> 
> Dual Mass Flywheels are more expensive than the Single Mass counterparts. So if you have to replace the DMFW it can be costly. But since you have no issues so far I wouldn't worry just yet.
> Looks like you are doing fine.




Sent via Tapatalk2


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

and for the record aftermarket SMF aren't any less expensive than stock DMF, they both cost around $500 give or take $100 so that doesn't explain why a typical street SMF kit cost $1000-1200 and DMF kits $1700+


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## [email protected] (May 30, 2013)

*FV-QR*

We will be doing free shipping, and a free hardware kit on the first batch of orders for those who want them! 
*Give us a call, or email for details!*
:beer:


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Compatibility with LUK flywheel?


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> We will be doing free shipping, and a free hardware kit on the first batch of orders for those who want them!
> *Give us a call, or email for details!*
> :beer:


Cool! Does that mean you are paying for my gas since I am "Shipping" myself to your clutch


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Compatibility with LUK flywheel?


Sure why not? The HSTuning RSR (Really Super Racy) Clutch will work with any of the OEM
DMFW's. 

Getting excited about Friday  I bet that clutch will add 200 HP to my set up. :laugh:
That along with the Downpipe and I will have to go backwards for people just to keep up with me.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Compatibility with LUK flywheel?


Sure why not? The HSTuning RSR (Really Super Racy) Clutch will work with any of the OEM
DMFW's. 

Getting excited about Friday  I bet that clutch will add 200 HP to my set up. :laugh:
That along with the Downpipe and I will have to go backwards for people just to keep up with me. 

My Front License Plate says it all: ÜR2SLO


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## ghita.silviu (Oct 26, 2010)

So you took a stock pressure plate, and install a stiffer diaphragm spring ? Did SACHS supply it ? 

Because the fulcrum points that multiply the spring's force are harder to move on this clutch cover.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

ghita.silviu said:


> So you took a stock pressure plate, and install a stiffer diaphragm spring ? Did SACHS supply it ?
> 
> Because the fulcrum points that multiply the spring's force are harder to move on this clutch cover.


No and No. It's not a Sachs pressure plate. It's a LUK SAC Pressure plate and I have seen the standard OEM/stock LUK PP that is used in some of the VAG cars laying next to the HSTuning PP and from the top they do look very similar, actually almost impossible to distinguish. But turn them around and there are definitely significant differences. Also the friction disk is most definitely not the standard stock weave and is one reason this kit is so expensive. It comes from a source that isn't currently available in the US. If you order one of their clutch kits you can be certain that it isn't anything anyone else has at this point and time. HSTuning has tried less expensive friction disks to see if they will hold up in order to lower the price. They are still testing certain disks but so far this is the combo that works and personally, I don't mind paying a hundred bucks more knowing that the clutch will last longer than with an inferior/cheaper friction disk.

There are other choices out there so if you want a clutch with a light weight Flywheel move on. This set up isn't for you. If you want something that works with your DMFW and don't want the harshness of the CM FX350 or even the drop in SB disk (which is using a very harsh disk along with the very weak stock PP) then consider the HSTuning solution. It's a real world clutch for the daily driver or the weekend warrior and anything in between.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

IndyTTom said:


> No and No. It's not a Sachs pressure plate. It's a LUK SAC Pressure plate and I have seen the standard OEM/stock LUK PP that is used in some of the VAG cars laying next to the HSTuning PP and from the top they do look very similar, actually almost impossible to distinguish. But turn them around and there are definitely significant differences. Also the friction disk is most definitely not the standard stock weave and is one reason this kit is so expensive. It comes from a source that isn't currently available in the US. If you order one of their clutch kits you can be certain that it isn't anything anyone else has at this point and time. HSTuning has tried less expensive friction disks to see if they will hold up in order to lower the price. They are still testing certain disks but so far this is the combo that works and personally, I don't mind paying a hundred bucks more knowing that the clutch will last longer than with an inferior/cheaper friction disk.
> 
> There are other choices out there so if you want a clutch with a light weight Flywheel move on. This set up isn't for you. If you want something that works with your DMFW and don't want the harshness of the CM FX350 or even the drop in SB disk (which is using a very harsh disk along with the very weak stock PP) then consider the HSTuning solution. It's a real world clutch for the daily driver or the weekend warrior and anything in between.


Lol. 

HStuning still doesn't address the DMF failures. 

Lots of great marketing material . . . light on the facts.

Dave


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## ghita.silviu (Oct 26, 2010)

i was curious what modifications where added to the LUK pressure plate.


""So you took a stock pressure plate, and install a stiffer diaphragm spring ?

Because the fulcrum points that multiply the spring's force are harder to move on this clutch cover. ""

and the question is what diaphragm spring did they use for this, because i don't think they build one


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

crew219 said:


> Lol.
> 
> HStuning still doesn't address the DMF failures.
> 
> ...


It's not their job to address the DMF failures. I owned 2 Audi TT's (2001 and 2004 models) both with stock DMFW's and neither one of them ever failed in the many years I owned these cars. 
I also owned a 2000 New Beetle with DMFW with 165k miles on it. It never failed either. All these
cars were tuned and spirited driven. I did hear that the FSi engine cars were equipped with weak
DMFW's but that DMFW have gotten a lot better over the last few years and they are a lot stronger than the older models. So I would most definitely replace the DMFW if you own a car with FSi engine when doing a clutch upgrade. 

Sure, DMFW's fail but so do SMFW's. I believe it all comes down to how you use or abuse your car and what main purpose it serves in your daily life. If you race the crap out of it and take it to the track every other day then you may not mind a Rattling LW Single Mass FW. 
This clutch isn't for you. Move on and look elsewhere. 

This clutch is mainly for the every day daily driver that wants a clutch "close" to stock feel. (This clutch definitely feels better/more positive than the soft stock clutch) and wants the confidence that this clutch will not slip when driven hard. If you live close to HSTuning you should just visit them and test drive their Stage II GTi with this clutch. After driving it you will be a believer too.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

IndyTTom said:


> *DMFW have gotten a lot better over the last few years and they are a lot stronger than the older models.* So I would most definitely replace the DMFW if you own a car with FSi engine when doing a clutch upgrade.


You keep on saying this but it is not true. The LUK design has not changed.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

ghita.silviu said:


> i was curious what modifications where added to the LUK pressure plate.
> 
> 
> ""So you took a stock pressure plate, and install a stiffer diaphragm spring ?
> ...


I don't know what modifications they made to their LUK PP but I know it's not as simple as just adding a stiffer diaphragm spring. That is a cheap shortcut and they showed me what happens if you do that. The Friction disk will wear unevenly and the pressure plate will have hot spots. 
They have a whole slew of Pressure plates and Friction disks that they tested with different configurations. None of them held up as well as the present combo. This wasn't an overnight project. They have done extensive testing and have installed hundreds of different clutches in their test cars over the last several months to come up with the combo that works.

I don't blame them for trying to keep some of the specifics under wrap at least for the moment because with all the copying and corporate theft going on. 
All I can say this isn't a simple LUK SAC PP and definitely Not your every day organic Friction disk.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

crew219 said:


> You keep on saying this but it is not true. The LUK design has not changed.


That might be true. Hence most every DMFW in the newer TSi cars are SACHS and not LUK.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

IndyTTom said:


> That might be true. Hence most every DMFW in the newer TSi cars are SACHS and not LUK.


And HS-Tuning is using a LUK clutch


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

crew219 said:


> And HS-Tuning is using a LUK clutch


Again, only a half truth. They are using a LUK SAC Pressure Plate which Sachs doesn't offer.
The friction disk isn't LUK. And the DMFW that they offering isn't LUK. Just because LUK's DMFW's of yesteryear isn't the best doesn't mean that their Pressure plate is inferior. Quite the contrary. 
HSTuning did test a slew of Sachs PP's prior to using the LUK SAC PP. They found the LUK to be superior to any SACHS PP they tested. Since it is self adjusting the Pressure plate and the Friction disk wear more evenly and at the same rate. Results are less fading and more consistent clutch pressure and engagement. 
It really doesn't matter since you already made up your mind that this clutch won't work for you. 
There is no "Perfect" Clutch and even this one will wear eventually. But I think for people that truly want a quiet clutch to work with their DMFW's then in my opinion there currently isn't a better solution out there than the RSR HSTuning clutch.


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## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

crew219 said:


> I like Organic clutches. I think the Organic disc is fine for 95% of users out there. I would just prefer a more aggressive than stock disc lining.
> 
> Note how similar yours looks to the OE luk organic lining.
> 
> ...



Hey thats my Spec clutch (lol) I sold about 1.5 years ago. The disc was metal material and the engagement was terrible but the PP was light just like stock...


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

lour32 said:


> Hey thats my Spec clutch (lol) I sold about 1.5 years ago. The disc was metal material and the engagement was terrible but the PP was light just like stock...


Yup, nothing like the RSR set up. The HSTuning friction plate is definitely not stock. It is organic but that's where the similarities end. It is actually one of the reason the RSR clutch is more expensive than some similar clutches on the market that work with the DMFW. ie CM FX350. HSTuning is testing less expensive Friction disks that will work with their Pressure Plate in order to satisfy the people out there complaining about the price. However, I believe if the current combo works and has been proven to work well in anything from a Stage 2 GTi to a Big Turbo Golf R then I prefer getting the more expensive disk knowing it will hold up. I was at their shop and have seen the many combinations of clutches. (PP and friction disks they have tested) and I am a true believer in their product. I don't blame them for keeping some of the details of this clutch under wrap for the time being. They want to make a little bit of money before someone copies their design and puts a big name on it. However, that may not be as easy as it sounds. Even if you have the part numbers and you can find them. (Hint, friction disk not available for sale in the US) you still wouldn't be able to make the parts work together without the proper modifications. So all in all given HSTunings research and testing I believe they deserve a pat on the back for coming out with this very Daily Driver friendly type of clutch. Close to stock Pedal Feel (maybe a tad more pressure but not much) very positive engagement and it holds up to Stage 2 , K04 and beyond tuned cars. I would say unless you are all out racing and you like a quiet and vibration free performance clutch that works with the DMFW then you can't find a better clutch than the HSTuning RSR clutch.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

IndyTTom said:


> Yup, nothing like the RSR set up. The HSTuning friction plate is definitely not stock. It is organic but that's where the similarities end. It is actually one of the reason the RSR clutch is more expensive than some similar clutches on the market that work with the DMFW. ie CM FX350. HSTuning is testing less expensive Friction disks that will work with their Pressure Plate in order to satisfy the people out there complaining about the price. However, I believe if the current combo works and has been proven to work well in anything from a Stage 2 GTi to a Big Turbo Golf R then I prefer getting the more expensive disk knowing it will hold up. I was at their shop and have seen the many combinations of clutches. (PP and friction disks they have tested) and I am a true believer in their product. I don't blame them for keeping some of the details of this clutch under wrap for the time being. They want to make a little bit of money before someone copies their design and puts a big name on it. However, that may not be as easy as it sounds. Even if you have the part numbers and you can find them. (Hint, friction disk not available for sale in the US) you still wouldn't be able to make the parts work together without the proper modifications. So all in all given HSTunings research and testing I believe they deserve a pat on the back for coming out with this very Daily Driver friendly type of clutch. Close to stock Pedal Feel (maybe a tad more pressure but not much) very positive engagement and it holds up to Stage 2 , K04 and beyond tuned cars. I would say unless you are all out racing and you like a quiet and vibration free performance clutch that works with the DMFW then you can't find a better clutch than the HSTuning RSR clutch.


Lol. You must really like those guys. :laugh:

Everyone else seems to see what I'm seeing. A modified stock pressure plate and an organic lining.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

lour32 said:


> Hey thats my Spec clutch (lol) I sold about 1.5 years ago. The disc was metal material and the engagement was terrible but the PP was light just like stock...


We all know how good Spec clutches are too


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

crew219 said:


> Lol. You must really like those guys. :laugh:
> 
> Everyone else seems to see what I'm seeing. A modified stock pressure plate and an organic lining.


Thee of Little Faith. Sometimes it's what you don't see that matters.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I was looking on HS Tunings site, they offer a flywheel as an addition to the kit. Is the Sachs flywheel better than the LUK one?


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## lamb110 (Mar 8, 2011)

I've had the RSR in my car for about 2,000 miles now. Still completely rock solid. So glad I went with the RSR over the Stage 3 Daily.

Proof:


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

GTI2Slow said:


> I was looking on HS Tunings site, they offer a flywheel as an addition to the kit. Is the Sachs flywheel better than the LUK one?


Simple Answer is YES. Especially if you have an FSI engine. The LUK DMFW of that generation was not as durable as the SACHS in the present TSI motors. Some had more luck then others with their LUK Flywheels but if you have an FSI and high mileage on your clutch already I wouldn't risk replacing just the Pressure plate, friction disk and throwout bearing. You may have to do this all over again if the Flywheel fails. Not sure how far away from HSTuning you are but if they install your clutch they can inspect the flywheel to see if it shows excessive wear or too much bearing play etc. Also there are less expensive options. You could get a new LUK Oem Flywheel which I think is a couple of hundred bucks cheaper. It may be perfectly fine. The choice is of course yours. 

BTW, I just picked up my car from HSTuning yesterday and after cruising Westlake and Cleveland yesterday I drove back to Indy today. All I can say is WOW. The new clutch feels so much better than the Marshmallow OEM Clutch. This thing Grabs. When I test drove it yesterday with Jeff I actually stalled it out trying to take off. I wasn't used to it and didn't expect it to grab that quickly.
Engagement is fantastic and the Pedal feel is so much improved over stock. This is definitely an enthusiast clutch with a very positive feel. The stock clutch was way too soft and the engagement point too high. The RSR clutch is definitely firmer than the stock clutch but not so much as it will tire your foot out. I love the engagement point. You let off the pedal and bamm it's in gear. Easy take offs and quick shifting. Easy learning curve. Once you realize this isn't your mushy stock clutch you will get used to this baby very quickly. No noise, no chatter. Just smooth engagement and quick shifts. Best mod since my APR Stage 1 tune. :thumbup::thumbup:

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Dec 15, 2009)

lamb110 said:


> I've had the RSR in my car for about 2,000 miles now. Still completely rock solid. So glad I went with the RSR over the Stage 3 Daily.


More kits headed out this week!


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

Quick update on my RSR Clutch. 3 weeks and 1200+ Miles and that baby still pulls like Lance Armstrong on Steroids.  

Great Daily Driver clutch that has a heart of a track performer. It's one performance clutch I can actually live with. :thumbup::thumbup:


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

IndyTTom said:


> BTW, I just picked up my car from HSTuning yesterday


lol all that advocating and you didn't even have the clutch yet


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> lol all that advocating and you didn't even have the clutch yet


 
Not sure what your point is but anyhow... Going into the 4th week with this clutch and I love it more each day. Great clutch at any price :thumbup::thumbup:


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## XGC75 (Mar 28, 2007)

Lol at the guys bantering about a lack of facts while complaining about the insufficient modifications to supposedly stock components. You don't KNOW what the changes are. You don't KNOW what those changes did to the specifications of the clutch. You don't have the facts yourself. Anyways, why don't you go banter about stock clutches on the S4? It's organic, it has a DMFW. It holds 325 lb-ft with plenty of room to spare.

This clutch is holding 380 awtq. It's sufficient.

butchered by autocorrecr


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## [email protected] (May 30, 2013)

XGC75 said:


> Lol at the guys bantering about a lack of facts while complaining about the insufficient modifications to supposedly stock components. You don't KNOW what the changes are. You don't KNOW what those changes did to the specifications of the clutch. You don't have the facts yourself. Anyways, why don't you go banter about stock clutches on the S4? It's organic, it has a DMFW. It holds 325 lb-ft with plenty of room to spare.
> 
> This clutch is holding 380 awtq. It's sufficient.
> 
> butchered by autocorrecr


:beer:


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

ordered one earlier today.... next up... after the credit card bill.... is the flywheel.

Is 06F 105 266 AG the correct number for the Golf R flywheel?


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## [email protected] (May 30, 2013)

BsickPassat said:


> ordered one earlier today.... next up... after the credit card bill.... is the flywheel.
> 
> Is 06F 105 266 AG the correct number for the Golf R flywheel?


The 06F 105 266 *AG* is actually the LUK flywheel that is from the MK5 chassis FSI cars.
The one for the Golf R that you would want is 06F 105 266 *AH*


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## Lawn_Mower (Jul 15, 2008)

I'm curious as to why the clutch disc has an OEM VW part number on it?


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

Lawn_Mower said:


> I'm curious as to why the clutch disc has an OEM VW part number on it?


I would be curious if it didn't since it is an OEM part.


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## Lawn_Mower (Jul 15, 2008)

IndyTTom said:


> I would be curious if it didn't since it is an OEM part.


I must have miss the part where they talked about it being the same clutch.


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## XGC75 (Mar 28, 2007)

Not the same clutch, but uses the existing flywheel. 

butchered by autocorrecr


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

Lawn_Mower said:


> I must have miss the part where they talked about it being the same clutch.


Not the "Same" clutch but different VW OEM modified Clutch (Friction disk and Pressure Plate)


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Quick pics with my phone 






































Sent from my iPhone. There may be horrible grammar and misspelling involved


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

so.. looks like the friction disc is from a MKIV, MKV, MKVI TDI with the 02Q and 02M engine....

the MKIV, we never got in the US, as the ARL engine was the 1.9L 150PD motor, which was also found in the 25AE GTI. THe ASZ (we also did not get) was a 1.9L 130 PD, as well as the 115PD (AJM)...those engine has the 02M tranny. 02Q was with the 2.0L TDI motors.


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## XGC75 (Mar 28, 2007)

What was the output of those engines? 

butchered by autocorrecr


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

BsickPassat said:


> so.. looks like the friction disc is from a MKIV, MKV, MKVI TDI with the 02Q and 02M engine....
> 
> the MKIV, we never got in the US, as the ARL engine was the 1.9L 150PD motor, which was also found in the 25AE GTI. THe ASZ (we also did not get) was a 1.9L 130 PD, as well as the 115PD (AJM)...those engine has the 02M tranny. 02Q was with the 2.0L TDI motors.


LOL


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

XGC75 said:


> What was the output of those engines?
> 
> butchered by autocorrecr


115PD = 115 hp & 229 lb-ft
130PD = 130 hp & 229 lb-ft
150PD = 150 hp & 236 lb-ft

the 2.0L 170PS TDI puts out 258 lb-ft

though oddly enough, my old MKIV TDI, modded, had a Sachs VR6 clutch, while it was designed for an engine with much less torque, was able to hold the 300 lb-ft it was putting out.




crew219 said:


> LOL


I liked how you PM'd me to talk about me wasting $1000 on it.

If you know of a better solution what utilizes a DMF, let's hear it.

I'm not interested in a L/W SMF setup, since I had one on my MKIV and hated it.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

BsickPassat said:


> 115PD = 115 hp & 229 lb-ft
> 130PD = 130 hp & 229 lb-ft
> 150PD = 150 hp & 236 lb-ft
> 
> ...


 
Been running this clutch now roughly 6 weeks and I like it a lot! Love the pedal feel which is definitely firmer than stock which I prefer over the mushy stock feel. The engagement point comes in low and this clutch grabs amazingly well. Regardless what the friction plate may or may not be, this combination works very well together. This set up has been tested and used (and abused) on All wheel drive Golf R's with Stage 3 Turbo kits which are putting down close to or even more than 400 lbs of torque. So I know it is plenty for my 6 speed with Stage 2 and even K04 applications. 
The clutch works as advertised and grabs a lot stronger than the soft stock clutch. I believe the friction plate on the stock set up isn't the weak point but rather the weak Pressure Plate. The Organic Material used for any TDI application is going to be more heavy duty than the regular stock GTi or Golf R friction plates and with the combination of the Modified LUK Self Adjusting Pressure plate the RSR combo is going to be hard to beat for anyone that wants to run the stock DMFW instead of a lightweight SMFW. Sure there are other options out there, Like the drop in disk from South Bend which seems to hold the torque well enough according to people that have it. But you still have the issue of the weak stock pressure plate. Someone just switched back from a SMFW (CM FX400) to the Drop in Disk and he says it's just as mushy as the stock clutch. There is a FX350 kit out for the DMFW but I have heard pros and cons about it as well. Let's face it there isn't a "Perfect" Clutch out there and everyone will have their opinion about what "they" feel is BEST. But there really isn't a BEST. What's BEST for you may not be ideal for someone else. If you want pure power and race a lot than nothing but a SMFW will do. I have ridden in several Audi TT's and Golf's and even one Jetta with SMFW and they are just not for me. I am sure others feel the same way. I gladly sacrifice a bit of performance for the smoothness and quietness of the RSR clutch kit.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

hmmm

http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/genuine-part-special-order-european-part_3716220.html

list price: $901.01..... 

and yes, I have used them many many times when it came to TDI parts.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

BsickPassat said:


> hmmm
> 
> http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/genuine-part-special-order-european-part_3716220.html
> 
> ...


Their Sale price is $720.81 and that is just for the friction disk. Ouch  Plus it will more than likely go up since it is based on the Euro and the Dollar keeps going downhill against all currencies. Soon the Mexican Peso will be worth more than the Dollar. Once we start the war with Syria gas prices will Soar like an Eagle and Oil companies will be richer than ever. Can't wait.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

IndyTTom said:


> Their Sale price is $720.81 and that is just for the friction disk. Ouch  Plus it will more than likely go up since it is based on the Euro and the Dollar keeps going downhill against all currencies. Soon the Mexican Peso will be worth more than the Dollar. Once we start the war with Syria gas prices will Soar like an Eagle and Oil companies will be richer than ever. Can't wait.


yes, this is when you buy from Volkswagen themsleves, since they usually mark up the price anyway.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

BsickPassat said:


> yes, this is when you buy from Volkswagen themsleves, since they usually mark up the price anyway.


Yep, when you buy from sachs, it's significantly cheaper. :laugh:


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## XGC75 (Mar 28, 2007)

Mine just came in. Which is kinda crazy, since I placed my order on Wednesday morning and got a shipping notice last night. Won't have the help to install it until next weekend, though. 

Some cell pics: (have to crop for tapatalk 4) 














































butchered by autocorrecr


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

WOW, amazing pictures. What camera did you use?


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## XGC75 (Mar 28, 2007)

IndyTTom said:


> WOW, amazing pictures. What camera did you use?


That's the HTC One. They're not joking around about the cheesy-sounding 'ultrapixels'. Bigger pixels really are better. Wish you could see how fast it captures, too. Far more immediate than even the iPhone 5. The downside is that is as sharp and large as the pictures get. Another sample:










^^ happens to be the car I'm installing into. 

butchered by autocorrecr


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

Very nice. I would have never thought these pics came from a phone. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (May 30, 2013)

*FV-QR*

A few more kits heading out the door, along with another in house install finishing up today!
Message me for any questions! :wave:


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-Shop-Life&p=82893333&viewfull=1#post82893333










TTRS stock pressure plate looks vaguely familiar.... I wonder....


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## XGC75 (Mar 28, 2007)

BsickPassat said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-Shop-Life&p=82893333&viewfull=1#post82893333
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hmm, yesss, yes it does...


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## XGC75 (Mar 28, 2007)

Installed, working. My update:



XGC75 said:


> From the install:
> 
> Had a lift and an engine bar. Wasn't as helpful a combination as it might seem.
> 
> ...





XGC75 said:


> My impressions:
> 
> In terms of firmness, clutch uptake is much more similar to a Honda or Ford (my most recent drives of either were the S2000 and Focus ST, respectively). Seriously - if you want to take this clutch for a test drive, go drive an ST. The way the ST's clutch engages is strikingly similar to this. That is, the pedal gets very firm just as the plates engage. By the time the pressure lets up, the clutch is 100% engaged and there's a bit of extra travel (maybe 1.5 to 2") at the top that's light and a bit mushy. I might just put a stopper before that point so I don't have that extra bit of travel. It's a rewarding feeling clutch in contrast to the stock clutch. You have to work a bit harder for a shift, but the payoff is more confidence in the grab.
> 
> ...





XGC75 said:


> Day Three Impressions:
> 
> This thing is hard to write about. On the one hand, in the back of my mind I'm developing the impression that the car is significantly harder to drive and that is reducing my desire to drive the car. Put another way, I'm too lazy to drive a car with this tough a pressure plate. Now when I actually get in the car and feel the clutch and make an attempt at being smooth with it, I enjoy driving the car. But what I really think is going on is that I'm occasionally forgetting that I've put this new clutch in and try to drive the car as I had before, and that's just not possible since the engagement is much tighter and more abrupt. So when I do this I have a jerky lunch and I feel embarrassed, which gives the lasting negative impression. tl;dr: I'm not used to the strength of the clutch yet.
> 
> ...


Edit:



XGC75 said:


> I rarely try and use this clutch like the old one anymore, and since I've been driving others around and making a point to drive the clutch comfortably I've been learning it better. I made this diagram while I still had an idea of the feel of the stock clutch in my head.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

@XGC75

You don't think the pedal characteristics are due to them sending you a pressure plate with the SAC mechanism advanced to the point where it is almost at the end of adjustment?

Dave


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## XGC75 (Mar 28, 2007)

I took a long hard look at how that mechanism works. It's not a ratcheting mechanism, so it'll adjust forward or back depending on the force the PP is applying. Simply a ratio of levers with a spring reference point. If the PP times the gain of the levers is more than the spring force, the plate will compensate in one direction, but if the pressure plate times the lever gain is less than the spring force it'll compensate the other way.

Frankly I don't feel the engagement point changing. The plate feels a little lighter than earlier in the week but I'm probably just getting used to it.

butchered by autocorrecr


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

XGC75 said:


> I took a long hard look at how that mechanism works. It's not a ratcheting mechanism, so it'll adjust forward or back depending on the force the PP is applying. Simply a ratio of levers with a spring reference point. If the PP times the gain of the levers is more than the spring force, the plate will compensate in one direction, but if the pressure plate times the lever gain is less than the spring force it'll compensate the other way.
> 
> Frankly I don't feel the engagement point changing. The plate feels a little lighter than earlier in the week but I'm probably just getting used to it.
> 
> butchered by autocorrecr


It's not a ratcheting mechanism, but the spring force will not allow it to reverse. 

Had a friend who installed a new LUK repset kit on his MK5 GTI. He opted for a cheap install by a local shop that did not adjust the SAC. His before pictures of the clutch indicated that they were almost fully extended. When he received the clutch back, it had a very noticeable short and low engagement and if the pedal wasn't fully pressed, it would have issues with release. He drove like this for a month before dropping the tranny at my place, resetting the SAC and reinstalling the reset PP. After that, all was normal.

Seeing as how LUK stresses the importance of resetting the PP, IDK why HSTuning says it's not necessary. 

Dave


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## XGC75 (Mar 28, 2007)

crew219 said:


> It's not a ratcheting mechanism, but the spring force will not allow it to reverse.
> 
> Had a friend who installed a new LUK repset kit on his MK5 GTI. He opted for a cheap install by a local shop that did not adjust the SAC. His before pictures of the clutch indicated that they were almost fully extended. When he received the clutch back, it had a very noticeable short and low engagement and if the pedal wasn't fully pressed, it would have issues with release. He drove like this for a month before dropping the tranny at my place, resetting the SAC and reinstalling the reset PP. After that, all was normal.
> 
> ...


Wow he had to press his to the floor?? Fortunately mine is not that serious - it will certainly disengage all the way. Frankly I don't see the engagement as a problem. It's more like a car outside the VAG. VAG cars tend to engage lightly and high in the pedal travel. I was just highlighting that difference.

butchered by autocorrecr


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

It looks like my springs are already pre-adjusted

http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemed...et/brochure_1/downloads_5/luk_tech_sac_en.pdf

And there's a youtube video not sure that car they did it on...



More info


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## [email protected] (Dec 15, 2009)

A bunch of kits headed out this week


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## [email protected] (May 30, 2013)

*FV-QR*

A lot of happy customers got their clutches installed recently. Keep the orders coming!


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

soo i need a new clutch and this looks like a great solution. My question is will i have to replace the the dmfw as in order a new on or will the old one be ok? im currently at 85k and stage 2 APR and i have only had the clutch slip a couple of times at highway speed in 5th. i have seen some good feedback about this clutch but just want to make sure im not signing myself up for issues down the road. also if HS could chime in about reusing the old dmfw that would be great!!!


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## [email protected] (Dec 15, 2009)

kylegti07 said:


> soo i need a new clutch and this looks like a great solution. My question is will i have to replace the the dmfw as in order a new on or will the old one be ok? im currently at 85k and stage 2 APR and i have only had the clutch slip a couple of times at highway speed in 5th. i have seen some good feedback about this clutch but just want to make sure im not signing myself up for issues down the road. also if HS could chime in about reusing the old dmfw that would be great!!!


You should be fine using your stock DMFW. The main reason we give new flywheels as an option on our site is if you are switching back from a SMFW and don't have your old parts laying around. W have had plenty of high mileage installs in our shop and haven't had to replace one yet.

Actually, the only one we have replaced is because a customers clutch literally disintegrated inside the trans and all the friction disk material was wedged into the DMFW, didn't want to risk that one.


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

great!! thanx for the reply, also i was wondering do you guys offer a warranty on the clutch? i know that southbend has started offering one but i would rather stick with the dmfw if possible to get one with a warranty


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## [email protected] (Dec 15, 2009)

kylegti07 said:


> great!! thanx for the reply, also i was wondering do you guys offer a warranty on the clutch? i know that southbend has started offering one but i would rather stick with the dmfw if possible to get one with a warranty


We currently don't. It's very hard to offer something like that on a product such as a clutch with so many other variables in the equation like driving environment and driving style. We do recommend that you don't do clutch drops, etc, until the clutch has had about 400-500 miles of normal driving for a break-in period.


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## [email protected] (May 30, 2013)

Hey Guys!
All pending clutch orders are shipping out today! 
Everyone will receive tracking this afternoon. Thanks again for the orders. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (May 30, 2013)




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## [email protected] (Dec 15, 2009)

Bunch of kits shipped out last week and more going out today!

I also added a new listing for a Golf R flywheel if you need one when installing our setup.

We're also testing some more options for this clutch, so be sure to be on the lookout!


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## XGC75 (Mar 28, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> We're also testing some more options for this clutch, so be sure to be on the lookout!


Wuuuut. Like????!!

butchered by autocorrecr


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

so what are the differences between the mkv gti dmf and the golf R fw??


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## [email protected] (Dec 15, 2009)

kylegti07 said:


> so what are the differences between the mkv gti dmf and the golf R fw??


Usually with higher mileage mkV FSI engines, we recommend upgrading to the R flywheel. VW revised the design and it's a completely different part number. The revision was really made because of the higher failure rates on the original mkV FSI design. In fact all of the in house installs on mkV FSI's that we have done have converted over to the Golf R setup because it's more reliable in the long run.


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## [email protected] (Dec 15, 2009)

XGC75 said:


> Wuuuut. Like????!!
> 
> butchered by autocorrecr


Time will tell. More options for more users


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## JoBu (Mar 6, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Usually with higher mileage mkV FSI engines, we recommend upgrading to the R flywheel. VW revised the design and it's a completely different part number. The revision was really made because of the higher failure rates on the original mkV FSI design. In fact all of the in house installs on mkV FSI's that we have done have converted over to the Golf R setup because it's more reliable in the long run.


I'm considering this kit as well as the Sachs SRE Performance for my MKV FSI. I'm only interested in DMF options and am happy to keep the clutch action and feel as close to stock as possible while being able to handle ~340 wtq. I only have 65k miles on my stock clutch but have spun it badly half a dozen times in the past month since upgrading my K04 tuning. I'm assuming I should repalce the DMF to be safe - I only want to deal with the labor once and not be sorry for only doing part of the job later. Is LUK 415034210 the Golf R version?


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

JoBu said:


> I'm considering this kit as well as the Sachs SRE Performance for my MKV FSI. I'm only interested in DMF options and am happy to keep the clutch action and feel as close to stock as possible while being able to handle ~340 wtq. I only have 65k miles on my stock clutch but have spun it badly half a dozen times in the past month since upgrading my K04 tuning. I'm assuming I should repalce the DMF to be safe - I only want to deal with the labor once and not be sorry for only doing part of the job later. Is LUK 415034210 the Golf R version?


Not sure about the Golf R Flywheel per say but I know that all the updated DMF's are made by Sachs. But I am sure that Nate or someone else from HSTuning will chime in.


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## JoBu (Mar 6, 2002)

I've been bouncing emails with a shop over in the UK about the Sachs SRE kit and he quoted me for the LUK 415034210 for my MK5. Total kit price is good but I'd want to make sure I get the newest version of the DMF with whichever kit I end up getting. HS Tuning has the R DMF listed as 06F1052266AH but that's the OE designation, not whatever Sachs uses for a part number.


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## [email protected] (Dec 15, 2009)

JoBu said:


> II'd want to make sure I get the newest version of the DMF with whichever kit I end up getting. HS Tuning has the R DMF listed as 06F1052266AH but that's the OE designation, not whatever Sachs uses for a part number.


That is the OE number, but is the newest updated version made by Sachs that comes in the Golf R's.


Our kit includes an updated all-metal throwout bearing, pressure plate bolts and throwout bearing bolts. 

f you purchase a flywheel, new bolts are included in the price. 

The transmission install kits we stock and sell are all the fasteners that are one-time-use and should be replaced during an install.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

JoBu said:


> I've been bouncing emails with a shop over in the UK about the Sachs SRE kit and he quoted me for the LUK 415034210 for my MK5. Total kit price is good but I'd want to make sure I get the newest version of the DMF with whichever kit I end up getting. HS Tuning has the R DMF listed as 06F1052266AH but that's the OE designation, not whatever Sachs uses for a part number.


The newest version is a Sachs DMFW not a LUK. So if you go with the Sachs SRE kit and buy a Sachs DMFW do not order the kit for the LUK flywheel it will not fit. The Sachs SRE kit comes in two different kits. One hat fits the LUK fW and one that fit the Sachs. 
Personally, I would just go with the HSTuning kit. That way you know you are getting the right stuff. These guys did extensive testing and I met with the at their shop when they installed my clutch. I was truly impressed with their knowledge about clutches and 
they showed me all the different Clutch combos that they tested until they came up with their present combination. My clutch has been doing great since first installed earlier this year. No signs of fading any let up. It's as strong as the first day. It definitely makes 
the car more fun to drive. The pedal pressure is firmer than stock but I prefer it that way. It is very easy to modulate the clutch and after the first 10 minutes of getting used to it you will absolutely love it.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> That is the OE number, but is the newest updated version made by Sachs that comes in the Golf R's.
> 
> 
> Our kit includes an updated all-metal throwout bearing, pressure plate bolts and throwout bearing bolts.
> ...


James, I think he is asking about the Dual Mass Flywheel you are selling. It is a Sachs, isn't it?


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## [email protected] (Dec 15, 2009)

IndyTTom said:


> James, I think he is asking about the Dual Mass Flywheel you are selling. It is a Sachs, isn't it?


It is a Scahs unit. Go figure I came in here to post that, and totally forgot!


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## JoBu (Mar 6, 2002)

So is LUK 415034210 the older OE MK5 version?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## JoBu (Mar 6, 2002)

I'd like to do that but at $1700 compared to $1250 for the Sachs SRE it's not that simple. This is already an unplanned expense. ..although I expected it eventually.



IndyTTom said:


> Personally, I would just go with the HSTuning kit. That way you know you are getting the right stuff.




Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

JoBu said:


> I'd like to do that but at $1700 compared to $1250 for the Sachs SRE it's not that simple. This is already an unplanned expense. ..although I expected it eventually.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you looking at the SRE clutch kit including a Single Mass Flywheel or are you going with a Dual Mass Flywheel? 

I seem the Single Mass Flywheel kits going for about 925 British Pounds plus 71 GBP for shipping = 996 GBP or at the current exchange rate about $1630 USD. I believe that if you go with a new Dual Mass Flywheel 
that amount would actually go up. Not sure where you are getting the $1250 vs $1700 amounts.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

Okay, I did find a SRE clutch kit with Dual Mass Flywheel for 750 GBP plus shipping which I assume will be around 71 GBP = 821 GBP or roughly $1342 I guess that is closer to the amount that you were referring to. 
I don't have experience with the SRE clutches so I can't advise you on that. I do know that the HSTuning Clutch is one of the best clutches I have ever driven in my 40 years having a drivers license and coming from Germany
were 90% of all cars are Manual transmissions. I am sure either one will be more durable compared o what you have. If there is an issue I think it would be easier to deal with HSTuning here in the States then a company
in England or Germany depending where you are getting the clutch from. Keep in mind that besides the clutch kit and shipping you may also have to deal with customs. Not sure if there is a fee or not. 
Either way, I wish you luck with whatever you decide. Let us know and keep us posted.


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## JoBu (Mar 6, 2002)

Thanks for the info. I had a shop the mostly deals with TDIs price up the parts for me with dmf and throwout bearing - $1268 to my door. You are probably right about dealing with a US company in the event of issues. That's a risk I need to weigh against the extra cost.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Dec 15, 2009)

In all reality, you won't need to replace your flywheel unless you are switching back to a single mass setup and don't have your old DMFW, or have a stock flywheel with extremely high mileage. Probably 1 in every 20 clutches we sell goes out the door with a new flywheel.


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## JoBu (Mar 6, 2002)

I'd totally be willing to give it a try if it wasn't $500 to pull the tranny again in the event the flywheel actually wasn't good enough. If I were local to you I'd let you make the call. Everyone else I talk to basically says you have to replace the flywheel if it's slipping badly. 

I never feel minor slipping. It's either fine or spins like tires on solid ice if I get on it aggressively. This just started recently since I got another 45ftlbs from new tuning and it got cold.

Interestingly, it was relatively warm yesterday and the clutch seemed to be holding. I didn't go full retard with the throttle but I've completely spun the clutch in the cold being less aggressive.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## lilfleck (Nov 28, 2008)

JoBu said:


> I'd totally be willing to give it a try if it wasn't $500 to pull the tranny again in the event the flywheel actually wasn't good enough. If I were local to you I'd let you make the call. Everyone else I talk to basically says you have to replace the flywheel if it's slipping badly.
> 
> I never feel minor slipping. It's either fine or spins like tires on solid ice if I get on it aggressively. This just started recently since I got another 45ftlbs from new tuning and it got cold.
> 
> ...


It doesn't seem like it's slipping that badly. The cold weather is going to exacerbate the issue. My car was doing the same thing and the dmf AND clutch looked flawless... The issue is in the pressure plate. 

I would think a bad slipping clutch is where you can't accelerate normally without slipping... I've driven a car that was like that. 



Tapped from the Men's room


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## JoBu (Mar 6, 2002)

Okay - that's definitely not the case. If I drive normal with accelerating there is no sign of slipping. But if I hammer it coming from an on ramp or something it completely breaks loose - it's like I'm doing a burnout but it's the clutch spinnng instead of the tires. I've only done that maybe 6-8 times because I've been careful since it started. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## XGC75 (Mar 28, 2007)

Yeah I was slipping too. For about 3 months iirc. Slipped more than I can count. I took a risk and dropped the transmission without the dmfw and found that while my FW was discolored, the surface was still well grooved and, most importantly, consistsent. Installed the PP and disk in there and haven't had an issue for the last ~7k miles.

butchered by autocorrecr


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## [email protected] (Dec 15, 2009)

JoBu said:


> I'd totally be willing to give it a try if it wasn't $500 to pull the tranny again in the event the flywheel actually wasn't good enough. If I were local to you I'd let you make the call. Everyone else I talk to basically says you have to replace the flywheel if it's slipping badly.
> 
> I never feel minor slipping. It's either fine or spins like tires on solid ice if I get on it aggressively. This just started recently since I got another 45ftlbs from new tuning and it got cold.
> 
> ...


I can honestly say that if you haven't been beating on it with it slipping, have super high mileage or have destroyed your clutch disk and impregnated it into the DMFW, then you do not need to change it out.


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## JoBu (Mar 6, 2002)

None of that applies so I guess I'll take a chance and try a disc/pp.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

JoBu said:


> None of that applies so I guess I'll take a chance and try a disc/pp.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


I would normally agree with James's statement except you have a MK5 which those LUK DMFW's were inherently weak. Even if the surface isn't bad the springs tend to wear much quicker which leads to unwanted
play in the flywheel. A lot of people reported Flywheel problems after only 30000 - 40000 Miles with normal driving and no tunes. Personally I wouldn't trust it to hold up to 350 or more lbs of torque on a performance tune.
Spend the extra money and do it right the first time. It will be cheaper in the long run.
For some reason it won't let me post any links to some very informative YouTube videos on the subject. Just do a search on the LUK DMFW and you will get tons of videos that will change your mind on keeping the flywheel you have.


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## [email protected] (Dec 15, 2009)

More orders shipping out today so you can take advantage of the colder temps outside


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## .:MKV:. (Feb 6, 2008)

Just got mines in the mail yesterday shipping took exactly 1 week to Hawaii 🌴 
Gonna put this puppy thru a stg3 test lol aloha


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