# Sound Off! (1.8T vs. 2.0T)



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Among the _*cognoscenti*_, what is the prevailing opinion about which is the better engine, the 1.8T or the 2.0T (_both with {somehow}EA888 Gen 3 genetics_)? Of course, the 2.0T will give more output, but is one more robust than the other? Does the one have a more responsive turbo? Tends to be quicker at the line? Takes the *APR* tune better? More responsive to hardware mods? Longer lasting? Tastes great? Less filling?

TIA.
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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

I did more research, and found this (Gen 3 engine) data fascinating ...
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*APR 1.8T* Stage I Upgrade

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*APR 2.0T* Stage I Upgrade

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_... I look mostly at the Torque line_. . xxx xx ....... ​.
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## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

The older 2.0t would be the better choice for making power than the 1.8. Just from the dyno graph alone, you can see that a tuned 1.8t is barely ahead of an stock 2.0. And of course when tuned, it'll make more power as well. That generation of 2.0t motors may have some timing chain issues, apparently, though. Not sure that I've heard any issues with the newer 1.8t/2.0t motors.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> The older 2.0t would be the better choice for making power than the 1.8. Just from the dyno graph alone, you can see that a tuned 1.8t is barely ahead of an stock 2.0. And of course when tuned, it'll make more power as well. That generation of 2.0t motors may have some timing chain issues, apparently, though. Not sure that I've heard any issues with the newer 1.8t/2.0t motors.



Funny how people see different things:
 - the tuned 1.8T has 20% more power than the stock 2.0T
 - the tuned 1.8T has less than 10% less power than the tuned 2.0T
 - the tuned 1.8T has a steeper curve to max power
 - the 1.8T has a flatter curve at max (or close to max power) and hence will give a smaller experience of turbo lag
 --- (turbo lag was addressed in the Gen 3B)
 - the tuned 1.8T is less than 8% less than the tuned 2.0T at 3100 rpms (my max rev _sweet spot_ for standard driving)


Obviously, I'm leaning toward the 1.8T. Do you watch _*Chicago P.D.*_ ? I recently saw a funny version of this phenomenom between Burgess and Lindsay.

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... and don't you think the Gen 3B will tune out below the Gen 3 (2.0T)?

Thanks for responding.
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## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

Just for simplicity sake, I'm looking at the peak #'s:
Tuned 1.8 has 231 HP. The stock 2.0 has 229 HP. 
The tuned 1.8 torque figure of 275 tq vs the stock 2.0 of 228 is significant, though. As well as the somewhat minimal difference between the torque when both are Stage 1.

A smaller turbo will spool more quickly and get up to peak #'s more quickly, which is desirable for those that like that sweet spot around 3100 rpm like you mentioned.

One thing to take into consideration outside of the dyno charts is that the automatic trans with that 2.0 is a DSG, whereas the automatic trans in the 1.8t is a traditional automatic. They behave a bit differently during driving situations. Or just get a manual 6 speed and don't let the computer decide how or when to shift for you.


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## Rline2.0T (Jun 19, 2020)

For what its worth, I have a 2014 R-line (2.0T/DSG completely stock engine) and my brother has a MK6 Jetta Sport 1.8T with an APR stg 1 tune with 93 gas, the APR carbino intake, and cat-back exhaust. We raced a few times from a stand still, rolling at 30mph, then another at 50mph.

I can honestly say that there is a major difference between the two engines, mostly in which transmission is connected to it. The DSG is the ringer here. From a stand still, he took the launch, but by 30mph I walked him. From 30 and 50mph, not even close. His own words... "Every time you shifted you gained about a half car length on me."

His car with the stage one tune def has a stronger torque curve, but that DSG makes up for any power difference where I was ALWAYS in the the powerband. He had to build boost over time where I was constantly hitting that 12-15psi mark through out my power band.

One other note about this bro science, We did runs with my DSG in drive/normal, Sport, and Manual. The Sport mode seemed to be the fastest except from the stand still where manual control allowed me to control the wheel hop.

2.0T with the DSG is the best option IMO


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Did some more research. Perhaps this is known, if so, I apologize.

Both the 1.8T and 2.0T are built off the same (ea888 Gen 3) block - _duh_.1) The displacement difference is made up completely by the stroke (84.1mm vs. 92.8mm) -- the bores of the engines are exactly the same. Hence, following standard stroke/bore ratio principles, the 1.8T is going to be more responsive, be able to rev higher, and be able to deliver higher torque at a lower rev line; while the 2.0T is going to have a higher total horsepower number, have the ability to be more fuel efficient, and put greater stress on the crankshaft couplings. { _source is Engine Builder Magazine_ }
2) The compression ratios are also different: 1.8T = 9.6:1, 2.0T = 11.7:1 . Again, following standard engine principles, higher compression gives a cleaner burn and more fuel efficiency (while being more sensitive to gas quality and prone to knocking); lower compression offers greater power and torque (especially in turbos) {_source is Infiniti website article_ }​
Most of this we see in the APR charts.

FYI, I found a second set of APR charts that brings the Stage I tune for the 1.8T up to 293 tq, the identical figure for the 2.0T.
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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Rline2.0T said:


> For what its worth, I have a 2014 R-line (2.0T/DSG completely stock engine) and my brother has a MK6 Jetta Sport 1.8T with an APR stg 1 tune with 93 gas, the APR carbino intake, and cat-back exhaust. We raced a few times from a stand still, rolling at 30mph, then another at 50mph.
> 
> I can honestly say that there is a major difference between the two engines, mostly in which transmission is connected to it. The DSG is the ringer here. From a stand still, he took the launch, but by 30mph I walked him. From 30 and 50mph, not even close. His own words... "Every time you shifted you gained about a half car length on me."
> 
> ...




These are the two options I'm considering.

The DSG is a shifting demon, and the R-Lines are, of course, very hard to find. I did find one last week, but for various tell tale reasons, walked away from it. I find it significant they never mated the DSG to the 1.8T ...

Though I'm looking at the engines and their outputs, I'm not a racing kind of guy. My last project car was a Juke Nismo RS which I got tuned up to 205 wtq. And in a pinch, I did happily dust a BMW X5 that tried to pin me to the shoulder going up an on ramp. But I almost never drive that way. What I do like is max torque around 300 rpms (three hundred, no misprint - _ha_). I like the setup of touch and go. So the high torque/low rpm behavior of the 1.8T is attractive to me.

I did want to hear from someone who had driven both the 1.8T (Gen 3) and the 2.0T (Gen 3B), and get their impressions. But your test (with the Gen 3 2.0T) provided 99% of what I'm looking for (since the Gen 3B is not tuneable, and probably won't be for at least another year). So thank you very much for the report. I do appreciate it. And to conclude, and not to trash your ride: _between shifts, the 1.8T is at least equivalent to the 2.0T in performance, and perhaps exceeds it_ (correct?).
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P.S., _for some fun, you can check out my "Data Display Tracking, Nummer Zwei" thread and perhaps make one or two more amusing test runs._ Thanks again.


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## Rline2.0T (Jun 19, 2020)

I will say that the 1.8T with the APR tune is similar to the 2.0T gen3 in how they feel in power maybe the 1.8T feels a little more torquey but with the DSG the advantage goes to the 2.0T, there is no getting around that, lol.

To put at you this way, when my brother was looking for a new car, I told him to get the GLI (He was only looking at Mk6 Jetta and GTI at the time) but he settled for the Jetta Sport since it had most of the GLI suspension but not the drivetrain. He was planning to go APR Stage 1 immediately and did the same as you did. Looked at all the charts and determined that the 1.8T with the tune will be slightly faster than the 2.0T. I thought the same and never mentioned the GLI again. When we raced that day, he knew he should have gotten the GLI instead. He is now rushing to get the stage 2 tune before it is discontinued at the end of the month just to keep up with my stock 2.0T beetle, hahaha.

to simplfy this *1.8T Stock<1.8T APR stg 1<2.0T Stock*

If he gets the stage 2 tune with the downpipe it will be interesting to see how much gain he gets out of it, but something like 15-20 more HP, i think, isn't going to close that gap that much imo. I now have an intake (doesn't add HP) and planning to go stage 1 with unitronic soon, but maybe ill wait until he gets that stage 2 to see where he is at in terms of speed compared to my car.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Am I correct in my understanding that when you say ... 



Rline2.0T said:


> I will say that the 1.8T with the APR tune is similar to the 2.0T gen3 in how they feel in power maybe *the 1.8T feels a little more torquey* but ... ​



... that you are are just, by the barest of margins, believing that the *1.8T* is a better option than the 2.0T? Or do I have that wrong?


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## Rline2.0T (Jun 19, 2020)

No I believe the 2.0T to be the superior engine, but the "feel" is the same when it comes to torque which is what you mentioned above with the Juke. Hands down the 2.0T is faster even in stock form, but the feel of the motor is about the same. The difference is in the transmission where the DSG is faster and smoother giving the 2.0T faster acceleration than the 1.8T with the stage 1 tune.

Honestly I wouldn't be able to tell the difference in the two engines based on day-to-day driving, but under hard acceleration the differences are there where the 2.0T pulls harder than a stock 1.8T. At a stage 1 tune for the 1.8T they "feel" similar but again the DSG just wins.

My money went to the 2.0T in my R-line, I do not regret the decision one bit.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Rline2.0T said:


> No I believe the 2.0T to be the superior engine, but the "feel" is the same when it comes to torque ...
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I know.
I was joking, hence the smiley.

I appreciate the 1.8T torquey consideration.

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