# Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions [Photos re-hosted x2]



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

At a recent get-together, we observed some damage to the bottom of one Phaeton. Although it is possible that this damage could have been caused by a road hazard (striking an object that was on the ground, or driving over a curb), it is more likely that it was caused by someone lifting the car on a hydraulic lift without taking care to ensure that the correct lifting points on the bottom of the car were used.

The Phaeton service manual provides two illustrations (reproduced below) that show exactly where the arms of the hydraulic lift need to be placed in order to lift the vehicle without problems. As we all know, the Phaeton is a heavy car, and if the arms of the hydraulic lift are placed in the wrong position, it is unlikely that the non-structural portions of the floor pan will support the weight of the car without deforming.

There have been quite a few threads recently about refitting different tires or rims to Phaetons. If you plan to take your Phaeton to a non VW shop to have this work done, it might be a good idea to print out this diagram and bring it along with you.

Michael


*Phaeton Service Manual - Lifting Instructions*
_I think it is possible that the front and rear illustrations may be reversed, but I am not 100% sure of this._









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/LiftingInstructions.jpg

*Damage to Front Left Corner of Car (Inside)*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/LiftingProblem1.jpg

*Damage to Front Left Corner of Car (Outside)*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/LiftingProblem2.jpg

*Damage to Rear Left Corner of Car (Outside)*
_Note that this car had been towed (transported) quite a long distance on a flatbed, this likely accounts for the deformation of the lifting point - probably a chain was attached there._









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/LiftingProblem3.jpg


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## red.devil (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions (PanEuropean)*

Poor Kessy unit...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions (red.devil)*

Fortunately, it was not damaged.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions (PanEuropean)*

Here are some pictures that I took at my Swiss dealer, showing the hydraulic lift correctly positioned to lift the Phaeton at exactly the points specified in the service manual.

There are two notable differences between the lifts used here in Europe and the lifts that are common in North America: The European lifts have a special round, adjustable pad that makes contact with the bottom of the vehicle, and the lift arms swing underneath the vehicle from the sides, rather than radiating out from a central point, as is common in North America.

*Correct positioning of hydraulic lift pads*
rear









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/SwissLift1.jpg

front passenger side








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/SwissLift2.jpg

front driver side








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/SwissLift3.jpg

*An even better alternative - Phaeton specific lifting pads*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/LiftingBlock.jpg


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions (PanEuropean)*

Can I use my floor jack to lift the car at the locations you specify so I can change tires? I would only be lifting one at a time. I would like to do this when I change from summer tires to snows.
If this is possible, it would avoid the issue of the floor jack damaging the lift points that are used by the car jack that comes with the car.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions (car_guy)*

Uh, well, it's not a matter of 'the locations *I* specify', it's the locations that *VW* specifies. There are some excellent illustrations in the Owner Manual that show exactly where the jack should be placed - they even have measurements and dimensions. In fact, I think the illustrations in the owner manual are better than the illustrations in the service manual.
One thing you might want to consider is getting some kind of hard plastic puck to use at the point where the jack contacts the car. This would ensure even distribution of the pressure on the bottom of the car, and avoid any possible deformation of the 'longitudinal reinforcement' that the service manual refers to. 
Personally, I don't think there is any need to worry about a conventional jack (meaning, a jack other than the one supplied with the car) damaging the longitudinal rail, as long as the pressure is spread out over a reasonably wide area - for example, a distance at least equal to the length of the contact area on the jack that is supplied with the car.
Michael


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## red.devil (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions (PanEuropean)*

Is that a good picture of the fuel cooler for the TDI?
What engine was in that? V6 TDI or V10?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions (red.devil)*

Yes, the aluminum thing in the middle picture (above) is a fuel cooler. The engine in that Phaeton is a V6 TDI. I had the same kind of fuel cooler on my Golf TDI.
Michael


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions (PanEuropean)*

I'm not familiar with what they refer to as a "trolley jack". Is it the same thing I'm calling a floor jack? If so, that probably answers my next question.
All the illustrations here show the entire car lifted by a service bay hydraulic jack. Just to clarify, are these jack points the same ones specified for use when raising just one corner of the car? I may be a little thick here and this may be obvious to others, but the last thing I want to do is bend something under the car.


_Modified by car_guy at 8:03 AM 11-10-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions (car_guy)*

I think that the term 'trolly jack' is used to refer to a portable floor jack - in other words, a jack that has wheels on it, and a long handle, and can be easily moved around in a shop. But, I am not sure about this.
The standard 'floor jack' that I am used to (in aviation work) has a fairly small head on it - this is what I was referring to when I suggested you do something to spread the lifting area out over a distance at least equal to that of the head of the OEM jack that is supplied with the car.
Michael


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Wonder why the underside of the pictured Phaeton's are so dirty and cruddy looking. I crawled under mine to inspect it and also demounted a wheel for inspection. Mine is almost pristine looking compared to the undercarriages shown on this Phaeton forum, not just this thread. None of that rusty looking stuff or all those salt marks. I am so lucky to live here where we don't have snow or mud and the roads are so clean. 


_Modified by GripperDon at 10:15 AM 11-10-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Hi Don:

Interesting that you should say that. I was actually quite surprised (and impressed) by how extraordinarily clean the underside of that car was, even though it has several thousand miles on it. For example, it was possible for me to read the part numbers that were inked on different components, and to see the individual stamps of the inspectors who do the quality control on the vehicle.

I think the difference you see between your car and this car might simply be because you get very little rainfall where you live, thus, not much water gets splashed up underneath your car.

Michael


*Underside of the car shown in this post:* 








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/UndersideofAccidentCar.jpg


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

The pictue you posted above is the best I have ever seen, But this sure is not, However I like mr cars exceptionally clean.







[/URL] [/IMG]
Regarding rain, As I already stated I am lucky to live where there is very little mud and not snow, you are correct. My car has never been driven in the rain, probably never will be. I have other lesser vehicles for such times.
At 6 tp 7 inches a year confined to about a couple of dozen times it is not too hard to avoid those times when it falls.
I have similar comments for under many of the hood pictures. covered with water spots and dirt. Mine looks as delivered. I clean it completely with protectorate every wash. I also remove the wheels when it is cleaned and use protectorate in the wheel wells plus clean the rims on inside and out.
I am however surprised to see any corrosion, The brown wax preservation wax, being a different matter, such as seen above, Regardless of conditions. 
Don



_Modified by GripperDon at 7:24 PM 11-22-2005_


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_
Regarding rain, As I already stated I am lucky to live where there is very little mud and not snow, you are correct. My car has never been driven in the rain, probably never will be. I have other lesser vehicles for such times.
At 6 tp 7 inches a year confined to about a couple of dozen times it is not too hard to avoid the time when ti falls.
I have similar comments for under many of the hood pictures. Mine looks as delivered. I clean it completely with protectorate every wash. I also remove the wheels when it is cleaned and use protectorate in the wheel wells plus clean the rims on inside and out.
Don

Considering the way you take care of your car, let me know when you're selling it!


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: (car_guy)*

Steven
I will. I have a Platinum Nissan Murano 2005 that is know as the worlds most added to Mo. Taken care of the same way also kept in an Air Conditioned Garage. Black Leater interion. If you need a great SUV only 4500 miles. See it at http://www.nissanmurano.org I am GripperDon their. Or look at my galley at hostDub.
Don



_Modified by GripperDon at 10:32 AM 11-11-2005_


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

I checked it out even though I don't need a car now. Quite something. You put so much effort into it and are selling it with only 4500 miles. I guess it's the journey, not the destination that counts.
Gee, I thought you spent all your spare time on your Phaeton. My next car purchase probably will be in three or four years. Please hold on to your Phaeton until then!


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: (car_guy)*

Steven,
Strictly economics. By Brother in Law owns a couple of homes in this compound and only visits a few times a year and has cars here that here wants me to drive. So that is more cars than there are drivers, SO......... Figured we would keep the Phaeton and drive the others some http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
P.S. I did love every minute of it. Particurarly the DVD movies via the NAV system.
Finally I do have to save some time for Houseboating on Lake Roosevelt.
Don



_Modified by GripperDon at 7:26 PM 11-22-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Here is an interesting picture that shows how a hard square rubber block can be used to lift a Phaeton at the points indicated in the service manual illustration at the top of this post.

The hard rubber block distributes the load evenly over the entire underbody structure. I believe that this block can be ordered by VW dealers as a 'special tool'. The service facility where I took this picture is not a VW dealer - it's actually in the basement of the Transparent Factory in Dresden.

Michael


*Lifting Block*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/LiftingBlock.jpg


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## gezuvor (Mar 13, 1999)

Michael and others,
Looking at the locations where these cutouts are located, they seem to be very similar to the areas used on the A4 and B5 models. Have you considered trying the factory jack pads that are offered for these? I have a set of them on my W8 and they work quite well for protecting the bottom and give the average mechanic (dealer or otherwise) something to aim for...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (gezuvor)*

Hi Richard:
I am familiar with those inserts, I installed a set on my Golf. I think, though, that they are specific to the G/J/P platforms, and not intended for use on the Phaeton. When I was in Europe last week, I spent some time looking through the parts catalog at my VW dealer, trying to see if a similar part was listed for a Phaeton - there was no such listing.
Michael


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## gezuvor (Mar 13, 1999)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I figured as much, but thought it was worth bringing up.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (gezuvor)*

*Archival Note:* Related posts -
How to change a flat tire on a Phaeton
Attention Fred... (towards the bottom of the first page)


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Photos re-hosted.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

New photo below, showing how sand and water can enter through a hole that is missing a plug, and damage electronics under the driver footwell.
The box with the white label on it is the Access and Start Control Unit (the KESSY, controller 05), the box just aft of it (below, in the photo) is the main circuit breaker panel for high electrical load devices. It contains about half a dozen high amperage self-resetting circuit breakers.
Michael


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## fdtinc (Dec 31, 2010)

*confusing pictures*

A question about the photos showing the correct lift-points:

My question is about the second and fourth pictures found in Post #4, by Michael.
(Pic #4 is repeated in Michael's post #18).

Picture #2 is labeled: 
Front passenger side
Picture #4 is labeled:
an even better alternative...

All these pictures are supposed to identify the correct spot to place the lift arms of a hydrolic lift.
Pic #2 and #4 have the oil cooler visible in each, so I am assuming that both are showing the front passenger side lifting point.

However, the spot where the arm is placed in those two pictures does NOT APPEAR to be the same spot.

Picture number 4, with the black rubber block from the factory in Dresden, shows the rubber block directly under the rectangular area in front of the oil cooler, that is the downward protrudiing rectangle with the holes in it.

But in in the Swiss dealer photo (#2) the lift is set much further towards the outside edge, and also somewhat further back. The rectangular protrusion is completely untouched in the Swiss dealer photo.
The same is true on the front left photo, where the rectangle there is also completely free of the lift arm pad.

Looking at our car, the Swiss lift would appear to be riding right under the thin lip that sticks down, at the very outside, and that does NOT appear right.
Because I am assuming that the Dresden facility surely knows where to put a lift, what explains the discrepancy between Dresden and the Swiss dealer?

It is very confusing, as both supposedly show the right lift point.
Which is right? 
Are they alternate points?

Finally, the drawings reproduced at the beginning from the VW manuals are really no good (also true in other VAG manuals), is is not helpful in identifying against on the real thing.

Why can't they just use clear photos, or even better, why can't the hydraulic lift points, as well as the scissor-jack points, just be clearly identified on the car itself with some bright paint (red or so)? Even if caked by dirt, one could just scrape aside and find easily.
The carelessness of these manuals is shown by Michael's mentioning of the front-rear picture mess up:
a) it shouldn't be messed up,
and
b) even Michael, knowing the cars very well, must find these drawings to be so murky, as not to be sure which is which.

Sorry about the manual complaint, but if someone can please identify which of pic #2 or #4 is correct, it is much appreciated.
Thanks, C. Dieter

(PS: Owners manual is awol, will be looking, and hopefully the pictures there are a help, as mentioned above.)


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

I am sympathetic to your dilemma as I have the same doubts about lift locations. What I did was ask my dealer to mark the lift spots for me with some paint. This was sometime ago and I would surmise that the marks have been erased with dirt and other things, so I am going to bring a can of fluorescent paint and have him mark the lift spots again. I will ask him to make the paint marks as big and dense as possible, so that there is no confusion or doubt as to where the jacks go.

As for your AWOL manual, I would say, do not bother. It shows just about the same confusing drawings as ones on this thread. I agree that they should have pictures similar to Michael's.

cai


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## fdtinc (Dec 31, 2010)

Went to a local dealer today, to see if we could get on of their Phaeton techs point out the right spot. 
So, met by a mechanic (assuming he is Phaeton trained having asked for one), and showed him the pictures from above, asking which is right.

Anywhere along the thin lip, just make sure they put the points evenly on both sides.
So followed up, how far away from the tire would still be allowed, and he said, it wasn't important. 
I then asked about the "rectangle mentioned above" and its function, and was told, he didn't know, but thought it might also be on OK lifting point.
Finally, it turned out, he had never worked on Phaetons before, they just always place their lift on that ledge on all cars.
So, the info was prob. ok, but not based on any knowledge of the car, but only Golfs and Jetta's.
The tech could not explain the diff. between #2 and #4, very confidence inspiring service dept. 
Having just looked at Michael's wheel change thread, where he shows a very good picture of the scissor jack groove around that thin lip, that is something of a confirmation of the Swiss pictures.

Which leads me to wonder why Dresden seems to do it differently, are they the ones in error, hard to believe...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

fdtinc said:


> Which leads me to wonder why Dresden seems to do it differently, are they the ones in error, hard to believe...


Dresden probably does it differently because the service facility in the basement of The Transparent Factory is equipped to work on Phaetons only, and nothing but Phaetons. For this reason, it makes sense for them to have the large rubber blocks and the hydraulic lifts that are custom-made for the sole purpose of lifting up Phaetons.

Michael


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*Rehost?*

Hi Michael,

Please can you rehost your photos relating to jacking and lift hoist precautions, if these are still available?

The TOC and a topic search refer to these threads:

Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions [this post]
How to change a flat tire on a Phaeton
Corrosion Prevention Precautions when removing and replacing Phaeton wheels


It's expedient to take the car into an independent, but they haven't worked on Phaeton tyre changes before and I would much prefer no bent cills...

Cheers,
Chris


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## VloJoh (Jan 2, 2012)

*Missing bits from the bottom?*

After straying through the vast amount of info in the ToC I read about the problems with water entering the footwell. Took a look at the underbody and found this behind the left and right front-wheels



















I tried looking up a picture with part-numbers in ELSA but could not find that. 
Am I missing some rubbery bits? If so, how do I order them?

John


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## Drewbedoo (Apr 1, 2012)

*I too had lots missing from the bottom of my '05*

I went to the parts department, they promptly looked up the codes, and ordered them for me. The overall was about 27USD.

Best Regards,

Drew


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

These are the bungs to look for: (PanEuropean's 'photo')









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/Upsidedown.jpg

And here's the parts list, as supplied by the dealer (cost in £ before tax):










The usual one to lose from hoist lifting is the oval bung, N 904 028 01. The big round one is a one-way valve plug, with a plastic backing piece, 1K0 899 185.

Chris


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## VloJoh (Jan 2, 2012)

Thank you all for your help. I will get the missing plugs from the dealer using the part numbers you supplied. 
What could be the use of removing them other than for fixing when towing?

John


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I believe that either the lift hoist arms stick to the oval bungs and pop them out in the workshop, or internal pressure from the likes of closing two or more doors at the same time can pop one out...

Chris


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## VloJoh (Jan 2, 2012)

Aha...


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Hi John,

It looks like I have all of these plugs on stock:










The ones on the above picture are, from left to right:
Item #1, Part #443 803 583, Drain valve. 
Item #19, Part # N904028, Sealing Cap 16.5 x 32.5.
Item #9, Part # N 101388, locking cover/Sealing cap A30
And the one in the foreground:
Item #15, Part # N101245, Plug A20

So you are missing item 9 here, my current stock is 6 pieces. Item 1 is a bit curious, as it basically just reduces the opening in which it fits to an oval hole of 4x6 mm.

Your second picture shows the same parts, but it is the other side of your car:










In your second picture above, item 15 is missing.
Prior to installing a new ones, the hole needs to be cleaned and some wax spray needs to be used on the part and the chassis to ensure both good bonding and good sealing. Michael explains in this nice post: Damage-arising-from-Towing-amp-Flatbed-Transportation

I sent you an e-mail. Just let me know whether these are the only ones which are missing.



Paximus said:


> The big round one is a one-way valve plug, with a plastic backing piece, 1K0 899 185.


Chris, I'm not sure that this part belongs to the Phaeton. The valve plug in the case of the Phaeton is the small one and has a tiny oval hole. The big round one is part N101388 and has no valve functionality at all. Did your dealer install this one in your car?


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> WillemBal: Chris, I'm not sure that this part belongs to the Phaeton. The valve plug in the case of the Phaeton is the small one and has a tiny oval hole. The big round one is part N101388 and has no valve functionality at all. Did your dealer install this one in your car?


I bow to your correctness.

Folks, please ignore my main-dealer-supplied list above, they just went round the parts bins and pulled out stuff that looked as if it fitted. 

The big round one in my list is a Golf heater duct relief vent and the oval one is listed in everything from Skoda to Bentley as a tie-down hook cover - but not listed for Phaeton.

I wonder what the difference is, it's the same part I think. Maybe it's because the Phaeton isn't supposed to be tied down at that point, so they provide a different part description... Who knows...

Chris


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Paximus said:


> I bow to your correctness.
> 
> Folks, please ignore my main-dealer-supplied list above, they just went round the parts bins and pulled out stuff that looked as if it fitted.
> 
> ...


Chris/All - this is hard.. trying to plug my bottom holes too. I have all those big oval ones missing - but that part number 904 028 doesn't seem to fit. It's the right size/shape - but it needs to be deeper I think. I've got four missing (off two Phaetons) at the front and four missing at the back. But 904 028 fits the back oval holes perfectly, but not the front. You would have thought they were the same... but they don't seem to be...

I'll keep researching!

Mike


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Right. Lets get serious. Bungs are bugging me! 

Here's the parts page for MY2006 (click for large version).


image (c) Volkswagen


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Chris - thanks for the image. I certainly looked at this in the parts dept of local dealer last week. I agree it shows part 19 (904 0289) at both front and back.. and it is the same shape... but it doesn't fit either my GP0 or GP1 at the front ... the swaged hole is too deep. I could force the plug in... but it essentially turned it inside out.... of course I might be doing something wrong... 

Regards

Mike


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Interesting. My part '19' fitted the front oval hole no problem. Your cars must be the armour plated versions


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Paximus said:


> Interesting. My part '19' fitted the front oval hole no problem. Your cars must be the armour plated versions


I'll buy some more and try again. The four I did buy were all used in the rear holes... for which I bought something else that didn't fit.... 

As I said... this is harder than it should be!

Regards
M


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Success!

Got some more 904 028 and succeeded in getting them into the oval holes in the front.

Picture show the hole:


The bung popped in:


And after a bit of fiddling around, turned right side out again.


Tomorrow - if the weather is still good, I'll stick some waxoyl paint where the existing seal has been damaged by careless jacking etc in the past.

M


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Waxoyl? I was wondering what to do about the wax - Michael said the factory smeared the metal edges and the rubber bung/plug with a setting wax, then painted the stuff over it afterwards (at least I think that was the gist of it).

Mine were just stuffed in, which has had me wondering daily, through the recent flooding here.

Chris


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Paximus said:


> Mine were just stuffed in, which has had me wondering daily, through the recent flooding here.


And I'm wondering about the value of the plugs at all... 

In the top left of the first picture in this thread is a bung that is called "443 803 583 M Drain Valve" it is a plastic grommet with a hole in it - as per my pictures below. If the hole that this is in also vents into the same space as the two big bungs to the right of it (in the same picture) then we're wasting our time!

Regards

M


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Doh!

Yes, I have one of those, and as you say it's a 'drain hole'... that is to say, a hole, as in 'an opening'.

I wonder - it does seem inconceivable that the interior of the cabin is open to the top surface of those bungs. But that's the perceived wisdom.

Since I'm probably nearest to a flood, shall I drive through and see if the KESSY still works? 

Chris


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos on this thread and the two threads Chris mentioned in the post above have been re-hosted.

Michael


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Michael - is it worth combining this thread with this one: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5738990-Missing-bits-from-the-bottom?
Thanks
M


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

n968412L said:


> Michael - is it worth combining this thread with this one...


Yes, I think that is a good idea and I will do it.

Because posts are threaded (joined) together in date order of each individual post when two topics are merged, the result might be a little incongruent, but let's hope for the best...

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:* See also this discussion - Damage arising from Towing & Flatbed Transportation.

Michael


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## DmcL (Sep 30, 2012)

FWIW the rectangular rubber pads shown on that picture of a phaeton on a lift do not need to be bought specially from VW. i cant say for the USA but over here i see many garages with rubber blocks like that so they can be bought from a generic supplier somewhere, probably for less than the VW items too.

was hoping to find some info in this thread about jacking the front of the car up and supporting it on axle stands but no such joy.. i have a set of front pads here needing to go in as the pad wear indicator is coming on in the dash. i was hoping id be able to jack the car up at the front lifting points and then put axle stands somewhere else thats suitable strong but looks like ill have to jack up one corner and have a look, maybe put the axle stands on a bit of the front subframe or try to catch front suspension arms or something as i dont want to be resting the weight of the front end on axle stands places under the floor/footwell area on such a heavy car. if i discover anywhere suitable and handy to use ill let you guys know.

also if you have no rubber jack pads or rubber to make a pad for axle stands a block of wood usually does as good a job.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

When I need to put it on jack stands, the easiest way I've found is to use the VW jack then place the jack stand on the underbody lift points with a practice ice hockey puck in-between.


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Following this discussion I bought (from ebay.de - because I couldn't find any in Blighty) four big round rubber blocks. I trimmed one down to fit in the cup of my trolley jack - and now I have a nice safe way to put the winter tyres on. Well... safe for the car. Still bad for my back!


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Mike,

I like that idea. Is the ebay.de offer still up, do you have the item number?

Chris


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Paximus said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> I like that idea. Is the ebay.de offer still up, do you have the item number?
> 
> Chris


Sorry - no. Too long ago. And they weren't easy to find either. I'll measure mine then at least you know what I've got and take a happy snap... in due course.

M


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Chris/Michael/all - I am confused by some of the photos in post no 4 by Michael. The pictures labelled "front passenger side" and "front driver side" do seem to show the lifting arms positioned in the wrong place. From the diagrams earlier in the thread and the photo "An even better alternative - Phaeton lifting pads", the arms seem to be outboard of where the diagram shows them.. between the big swaged pad with the bungs in and the vertical side member stiffener.. or even *on *the latter.

From my experience of jacking the car up I think those big swaged pads where the bungs are is the place to lift -as the "an even better alternative.." picture shows.

Below is the poor man's version - 30 year old trolley jack and £2 rubber buffer from Germany - with a bit chamferred off to make it fit in the jack cup.





Worth noting that when you do jack at the location I suggest, the jack completely flattens (of course) the big oval rubber bungs. But these just pop back into shape when the car is lowered.

Regards

M


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Mike, I agree, the photos confused me too. I always lift at the points where the factory appear to connect, in the same place that you describe.

No doubt Michael can elucidate in due course.

Chris


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

How would one go about in lifting the P to get both front wheels off the ground to put it on jack stands. On my other car there is a cross member below the engine that can be used to lift the front up and then set the car on jack stands located at the lifting points. That's what I usually do if I work on the front brakes or suspension and would prefer to do this on the P in the same way.

I haven't really looked that closely under my P to see if there is a way to do this safely. Anybody done this before?

Stephan


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Phaetonlvr said:


> How would one go about in lifting the P to get both front wheels off the ground to put it on jack stands. On my other car there is a cross member below the engine that can be used to lift the front up and then set the car on jack stands located at the lifting points. That's what I usually do if I work on the front brakes or suspension and would prefer to do this on the P in the same way.
> 
> I haven't really looked that closely under my P to see if there is a way to do this safely. Anybody done this before?
> 
> Stephan


Do one side at a time... for grake or suspension... you are not really that much faster with both up in the air.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The easiest way I've found is to use the manual jack because it locates into the lip of the sill, that way you have room to position the jack stands on the lifting points. Using a floor jack, there's nowhere else to jack it safely. Theoretically, I suppose you could use a suspension member, but given the complicated control arm arrangement I never chance it.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Even if I use the floor jack just on one side I'd rather put it on a jack stand instead of relying on the floor jack alone for safety reasons, even though it is a 3-ton heavy duty one.

I'll have to see if I can use the manual jack and have enough space to get the jack stands in correctly.

Stephan


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm the same way. I don't like having it up on the floor jack for that length of time, especially since I'm bound to need something in the middle of the job that requires a quick trip to Autozone! I usually do one side at a time using a jack stand. The manual jack is actually really fast, and you don't need to lift it much to do the brakes anyway, just enough to get the wheel off the ground and the jack stand in place.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:*

See also this discussion: Damage arising from Towing & Flatbed Transportation , in particular, see post #35 at the bottom of page 1 of that discussion, which discusses degradation of the rubber plugs and the undercoating sealant that takes place over time.

Michael


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*Moderation note:*

Photos re-hosted

Chris


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