# Enabling (or retrofitting) a rear foglight on a North American Phaeton



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Jim (Spockcat) from the Touareg forum just sent me some information that indicates that it might be possible to enable a foglight on the North American Phaeton. Right now, I am looking at two different (and conflicting) sources of info: The European Self-Study Guide for the Phaeton - which is normally a very credible source - infers that the light module is different between fog and non-fog vehicles. But, the parts documentation suggests that the modules are the same.
I will do some more research on this (next week, because I am trying to get all the VAG-COM label files for the Phaeton written before the impending release of VAG-COM version 5), and let you know what I find.
In the meantime, please let's use this thread only for rear foglight discussion, so as not to scatter the information about the BB.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Enabling (or retrofitting) a rear foglight on a North American Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

Here's the (conflicting) information that I have about the rear foglight, in case anyone else is interested in pursuing this topic. The first question that needs to be answered is whether or not the rear lamp assemblies are different between North American and European Phaetons.
Personally, I don't think a rear foglight is really needed on the Phaeton, simply because the lights from the tail-lights and brake lights are so bright and so well focused (directionally) already. But, it would be an interesting topic to research.
Michael
*Description from European Phaeton SSP (Self-Study Program)*








*North American Parts Catalog - rear lights*








*European Parts Catalog - rear lights*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Enabling (PanEuropean)*

Terence, may I trouble you to have a look in your owner manual (or at one of the fusecards in the front or rear fusepanels) and let me know what the fuse number is for the rear foglight? This information is not provided in the North American owner manual or any of the North American wiring diagrams.
Thanks, Michael


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## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Enabling (PanEuropean)*

Michael the fog lamps are on both sides rear. the only reference is to fog lights, this is fuse 58 under the steering column,start of row four. No reference to whether front or rear. Hope this helps.Just raced around will post photos and fuse layout if required.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Enabling (pilgrim7777)*

I have since discovered, in conversation with the engineers at the Transparent Factory, that it is not possible to enable the rear fog light on a North American Phaeton.
The two inboard rear lights (the ones on the trunk lid) are the ones that have the fog lights in them. These are the exact same part numbers worldwide - in other words, North American Region (NAR) Phaetons do have rear fog lights. But, the fog lights are controlled by a controller (presumably a printed circuit) inside the outboard lights. The left outboard light controls the right foglight, and vice-versa. The outboard lights are different in NAR from those used in the rest of the world (ROW). NAR outboard lights have red turn signals, ROW outboard lights have amber turn signals. NAR outboard lights have 'cats eye' reflectors on the sides, ROW lights don't. ROW outboard lights have the processor capability to control the foglight, NAR outboard lights don't.
To enable the rear foglight function on a NAR Phaeton, the two outboard lights would have to be replaced with ROW spec outboard lights. Not only would this be prohibitively expensive, it would result in the car not meeting North American safety specs, because it would no longer have the reflectors on the rear sides of the car.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Enabling (PanEuropean)*

Here's a bit more information about the rear foglight topic.
The rear foglights themselves are part of the two inner rear lamps - the lamp assemblies that are mounted on the trunklid. In the photo below, you can see these lights illuminated. They are seriously bright, and are only intended for use when the prevailing visibility is less than 50 meters (50 yards).
All the rear lights on the Phaeton are LED - excepting the backup light, which is a halogen bulb - and LEDs require fairly complex controller assemblies. The controllers are part of the _outboard_ lights. It so happens that there are two different specifications for the outboard lights on Phaetons - North American spec, which use red LEDs for both the brake lights (in the outboard assemblies) and the turn signals (also in the outboard assemblies), and ROW (Rest of World), which use amber LEDs for the turn signals. You cannot detect the presence of the amber LEDs for the turn signals unless the turn signal is actually operating, because the lens over the turn signal appears to be red, same as the North American product.
The outboard lamp assemblies with the amber turn signals - the ROW spec - contain additional controller components to illuminate the rear foglights. VW of North America's policy has always been to not provide rear foglight functionality on any VW product imported to North America. This makes sense, as anyone who has followed behind someone driving a Mercedes or a Volvo on a clear night - with the rear foglight on - will comprehend. On some VW products - such as a Golf IV - all you have to do to enable the rear foglight is fit a bulb in the empty socket, and install a light switch that supports rear foglight installation. On the Phaeton, you would need to replace the two outboard rear lights with ROW spec lights that have the additional controller components needed to operate the rear foglights. The LEDs used for the rear foglight on the inboard lamp assemblies are present on all Phaetons.
Michael
*What the rear foglights look like when they are illuminated*
They are as bright as the brake lights.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Enabling (PanEuropean)*

I managed to acquire a set of Rest of World (ROW) rear outboard lamp assemblies - no, I did not scarf them from Daniel's car - and I installed them on my Phaeton today. This means I now have amber coloured turn signals on the rear, and I have functional rear foglights. I would not really recommend this retrofit to others, because the cost of the parts (two rear outboard lamp assemblies) is very high. Also, you have to replace the light switch in the cabin, and in doing this, you lose the valet locking feature.
Below are a few photos illustrating the difference in the lights, and how the installation is done. It is a very, very simple installation, just remove 4 bolts, remove the old lamp assembly, install the new lamp assembly, and that's it. No coding or adaptation is required. Changing the light switch in the cabin is also 'plug and play', but if you change the light switch, you have to recode the Instrument Cluster (controller 17) to 'Europe'. This enables the rear foglight, and disables the valet lock. It also disables the 'key in ignition' warning chime. The coding process is detailed at this post: How to get rid of the "Key in Ignition" warning chime (Changing Country Code), and the replacement of the light switch itself is detailed in this post: Front Fog Lights, European Light Switch, Coding of Phaeton Lighting.
In theory, you could simply recode the Instrument Cluster controller to Europe, and use the existing NAR spec light switch to control the rear fogs (by pressing the valet lock button), but that would kind of incongruent - if you are going to spend the $1,000 plus to replace the rear outboard lights, you might as well spend $100 to purchase a proper, 4 function light switch.
Some care must be taken when fitting the new rear lamp assemblies, even though it looks dead simple (just 4 bolts). To ensure that the lamp assembly is perfectly flush with the rear quarter panel, proceed as follows:
*a)* Put the assembly in place loosely, then install the bolts but do not tighten them.
*b)* Have a helper position the lamp assembly perfectly by firmly pressing it into the corner of the car and holding it there. The difficult reference point is the front, pointy end of the lamp assembly. This needs to be positioned so that it is perfectly flush with the rear quarter panel in all respects. If you get this right, the rest of the light will fit perfectly everywhere else.
*c)* While your helper holds the lamp assembly in place, you tighten the 4 screws, following a criss-cross pattern, similar to wheel lug bolts.
Anyway, here's the details:
*North American Lamp Controller Assembly - detail*
Note the missing resistors to control the foglamps, which are contained in the inner lamp assemblies (but, controlled by the opposite side outer lamp assemblies).








*European Lamp Controller Assembly - detail*








*The two assemblies, side by side*
Note the protective film over the adhesive on the dust gasket in the upper assembly. This film must be removed to expose the adhesive before the lamp is installed.








*Location of the bolts that hold the outboard lamp assembly in place*
This is the left side of the car, you can see the Vehicle Power Supply Battery at the bottom of the picture. The right side is similar.








*The original NAR spec lamp assembly, before removal.*
Note the cat's-eye reflector on the side of the rear lamp assemblies. This is required in North America - remember when it was first introduced back in about 1969? It is not present outside of North America. Otherwise, the two lamp assemblies appear to be the same when not illuminated.








*The rear quarter panel, after removing the assembly.*








*The ECE spec lamp assembly, installed.*
There is a tiny difference in appearence of the reflector on the side of the lamp - otherwise, the exterior appearence of the lamp assembly when not illuminated is identical to the NAR spec.








*The end result - rear foglights on. *
Note the amber colour turn signal (illuminated in this picture) on the left side. The NAR turn signal lamps are red.


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## kojack (Aug 19, 2003)

damn! that car is HOT!...im doing this with my passat as well....considering I live in one of the foggiest places in canada....safety first


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## Orjan (May 28, 1999)

*Re: (kojack)*

Does the European version also have the red sidemarker? Seems the part# are the same for US and euro versions...


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Enabling (PanEuropean)*

Michael, 
I noted a VIN split in ETKA for the assemblies -- any clue as to what the difference is (besides one having a B suffix?







)
Thank you in advance!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Enabling (chrisj428)*

Hi Chris:
I'm still a bit confused by the ETKA (VW electronic parts catalog) listings for these rear outboard lamps. It is now obvious that there are two very different outboard lamp assemblies - ECE spec with the amber turn signals and controllers embodied for the fog lights, and SAE spec with red turn signals and no controllers for fog lights (but with reflectors on the sides, to conform with the FMVSS on that). But, as you can see way up above at the beginning of this thread, the ETKA information that I have does not seem to reflect this. For the benefit of those who are not familiar with the VW parts catalogs (ETKA, or 'Electronic Catalog' in German), there are two versions - North American and Rest of World.
I have posted pictures of the PN of the lamp assemblies below. I am pretty sure that the PN for the inboard lamp assemblies (the ones on the trunk lid) is universal. I have not had time to figure it all out. I think I will try to get a new ETKA listing from Europe next time I am there.
I'm not sure yet what kind of illumination or reflection the ECE spec lamp assemblies provide to the sides of the vehicle. I will try to take a look later today, and will post a picture.
Michael
*NAR Region (SAE spec) Rear Outboard Lamp Assembly PNs*
















*ROW (ECE spec) Rear Outboard Lamp Assembly PNs*


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Enabling (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
The C or D suffix implies supercession in terms of the "generation" of the part. The part numbers themselves (3D0-945-095/6) are the same. I wonder if the G7 or G5 designation at the end is significant here.
FWIW, to those not in the "know", the last digit (in this case a 5 or 6) indicates which side of the vehicle the part is for. An odd numbered part would go on the left side of the car, an even numbered part on the right.
I'm stumped on this one...I'll do some more checking & get back to you.
*UPDATE:* Show A, C & E suffixes in ETKA for the taillight assemblies only. Parts On Demand shows the same. And, neither shows the switch available.










_Modified by chrisj428 at 5:51 PM 8-30-2005_


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## meinhib (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: Enabling (chrisj428)*

chris,hello I was wondering can you get the euro light switch with the 4 settings, so the fog lights, sidemarkers, and rear lights to work. The only way this can happen is with the eruo switch. All the dealers here in Pa. can get the correct euro # used for ordering...please help


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Enabling (meinhib)*

I got mine from Spockcat good price, quick service. I have the 4 position switch installed, Did not take long to get it either. Sure does the trick, I love it. About $90 and $6 for shipment as I remember it all


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: Enabling (GripperDon)*

As it is expensive and tricky to get a US Phaeton to display rear fog lights, why not add supplemental fog lights? A friend of mine used an LED arrangement that looked fine. One could mount such a lighting device (they are very small and bright) below the rear valance on the Phaeton and hard wire a switch near the driver. I know, there will be no instrument panel indication that the light is enabled but another LED in the cabin could take care of that. Some of my friends that have been transferred to Europe by their companies for a year or two added rear fog lights this way to their US cars that they took with them.
Not hard to do and very affordable.
RB


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## ramtor (Jan 1, 2006)

It looks like LED's in a fog lights (inboard assemblies) are already present.
If its so it might be possible to use them by installing additional controller independent of the vehicle circuitry (remote wireless switch maybe) or if possible to get electrical diagrams for for the fog light controllers and possibly just install absent part to rein-able the function. ( It looks like VW provision then look at the us controller part). Any thoughts?


_Modified by ramtor at 5:05 PM 12-31-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (ramtor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ramtor* »_It looks like LED's in a fog lights (inboard assemblies) are already present.

That is correct. The inboard (trunk lid mounted) lights are the same on all Phaetons, NAR and ROW.

_Quote, originally posted by *ramtor* »_If it is so, it might be possible to use them by installing additional controller independent of the vehicle circuitry (remote wireless switch maybe) or if possible to get electrical diagrams for for the fog light controllers and possibly just install absent part to re-enable the function. ( It looks like VW provision then look at the us controller part). Any thoughts?

I don't think that could be easily accomplished. The signal to control the rear fog lights is sent by CAN bus, rather than as a simple analog signal. The only simple way of getting the required controllers for the LEDs in the rear fog lights would be to buy a pair of ROW spec outboard rear lights, and if you are going to do that, then you might as well just install them complete and then enjoy everything in OEM configuration.
It would not be difficult to come up with an independent switching mechanism - what would be, I think, both difficult and expensive would be constructing controllers for the two fog lights.
Michael


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*European Taillight/Rear Foglight conversion*

I just heard back from Gezuvor at http://vw.oempl.us, he's going to be carrying these for US$625! Not too bad a deal! Just remember, you'll also need the Four Position Headlight Switch.
I estimated one hour labour for installation and recoding.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: European Taillight/Rear Foglight conversion (chrisj428)*

If you are considering this mod, be aware that you can have *either *the valet lockout function *or *the rear foglamps, but not both.


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: European Taillight/Rear Foglight conversion (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_I just heard back from Gezuvor at http://vw.oempl.us, he's going to be carrying these for US$625! Not too bad a deal! Just remember, you'll also need the Four Position Headlight Switch.
I estimated one hour labour for installation and recoding.

Thanks Chris,
Now I don't have to go all the to Dresden to get my parts.








Regards,
Brent


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: European Taillight/Rear Foglight conversion (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_I estimated one hour labour for installation and recoding.

That's a pretty good estimate, it took me about 90 minutes to put them in, and that was the first time I had ever worked in that area of the car.
The only 'difficult' part of the work is removing the big relay and fuse panel from the left side of the car, so you can get access to the bolts that retain the left tail-light. It is a 30 second job to unclip this relay and fuse panel if you know how to do it - it is a half-hour job, with great risk of broken parts, if you do not know how to do it. The Phaeton service manual does not explain it well - remind me to make a post with an 'illustrated how-to guide' about this, because that relay panel needs to be removed to accomplish other tasks as well, such as battery replacement or battery monitoring controller replacement.
Michael


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: European Taillight/Rear Foglight conversion (PanEuropean)*

I just wanted to chime in on this thread to say that we sold our first set of these taillights on 5/19. We have not stocked them before, but the pair should arrive in a few weeks and I'll be eager to see how the installation process works.
Hopefully the lucky owner will pop up and share some photographs and feedback once they have them installed. A 4-position headlight switch was also purchased, so everything should go according to plan!


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## Viergang Fuchs (May 31, 2006)

Just completed the work on mine - I've had the taillights for sixty days but had to wait until I managed to get my thumb out and buy a VAG-COM.
I timed myself for the amusement of the board.
Left light, which I did first: 71 minutes
Right: 3.5 minutes
I never figured out how to completely remove the fuse panel. I could see the upper attachment but couldn't get it to come loose. So I got in the trunk with a flashlight and a small ratchet and did the work around it. Along the way I managed to cut and bruise myself several times, most notably on my right wrist which now looks like a teenaged girl's cry for help. But it's done and I am foglighting with the best of 'em!


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: (Viergang Fuchs)*

No problems with the dash indicator? There have been some other owners struggling to get that to function properly.
BTW - We now stock these here in California for interested enthusiasts.


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## Viergang Fuchs (May 31, 2006)

*Re: (OEMpl.us)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OEMpl.us* »_No problems with the dash indicator? There have been some other owners struggling to get that to function properly.

No problems in the sense that *it ain't there*







Perhaps that will change when I buy the proper light switch from you.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (OEMpl.us)*

It seems that there is a growing body of evidence that points to the 2006 NAR Phaetons instrument clusters not being equipped with the annunciator light for the rear foglight. I can't say that this is a 'for sure' yet, because I have not had a chance to look at a NAR 2006, but the evidence points in that direction.
Michael


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## Viergang Fuchs (May 31, 2006)

Forgot to mention that this is in my '06, as Michael suspected. My '05 still has US taillights.


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## rps (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hi, Did I mention that in reprogramming the instrument cluster to Europe(after having the amber turn signals installed and rear fog enabled)
I now have the international symbol for cruise control(speedometer)and no longer the ridiculous CRUISE. This would suggest to me that the rear fog icon is probably there, just not illuminating. (Why would VW spend the time and money to eliminate it anyway?) 
I did discover at the GTG in Boca Raton this past weekend, that my trip data is now recording MPG in Imperial gallons. (and I thought just maybe eliminating the DRL's caused such a dramatic increase in gas mileage)--no luck.
Could it be that installing the European headlight switch requires an additional coding to enable the rear fog icon?
Richard


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Viergang Fuchs)*

Hi Jay:
The production difference between the NAR 05 and NAR 06 that I was referring to has nothing to do with the tail-lights being different (all NAR Phaetons ship with tail-lights that don't support the rear fog function), it has to do with the instrument cluster being different (we suspect - not proven yet) in the 06, and the instrument cluster not supporting the annunciator icon for the 'rear foglight in operation'.
My guess is that you know that already, I'm only posting this response because of the risk of of confusion on the part of others who may read this thread.
Michael


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## Viergang Fuchs (May 31, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Jay:
The production difference between the NAR 05 and NAR 06 that I was referring to has nothing to do with the tail-lights being different (all NAR Phaetons ship with tail-lights that don't support the rear fog function), it has to do with the instrument cluster being different (we suspect - not proven yet) in the 06, and the instrument cluster not supporting the annunciator icon for the 'rear foglight in operation'.
My guess is that you know that already, I'm only posting this response because of the risk of of confusion on the part of others who may read this thread.
Michael

Roger that, Boss. If I can find another set of Euro taillights for somewhat less than $695 (which is a very fair price, I would add) I will try it on the '05, which has been VAG-COMmed the same way and report back.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (rps)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rps* »_Hi, Did I mention that in reprogramming the instrument cluster to Europe(after having the amber turn signals installed and rear fog enabled) I now have the international symbol for cruise control(speedometer)and no longer the ridiculous CRUISE. This would suggest to me that the rear fog icon is probably there, just not illuminating. (Why would VW spend the time and money to eliminate it anyway?) 
I did discover at the GTG in Boca Raton this past weekend, that my trip data is now recording MPG in Imperial gallons. (and I thought just maybe eliminating the DRL's caused such a dramatic increase in gas mileage)--no luck.
Could it be that installing the European headlight switch requires an additional coding to enable the rear fog icon?

Hi Richard:
You raise an interesting point. Things are getting a bit tricky here, because there are now four different issues under discussion. To prevent great confusion from developing, I would like to clarify things and re-state what the three different issues are.
*1) Country Code Programming*
If you change the country code of your Phaeton from USA to Europe using a diagnostic scan tool, several changes will take place. As Richard pointed out, the symbology for some of the displayed icons (e.g. cruise control) will change from SAE spec to ISO spec. Also, the units of measure will change (Imperial Gallons will be used instead of American Gallons), and, the function of some of the switches in the car will change. The 'valet lockout' switch will now be re-assigned to operate the (non-existent) rear foglight, and you will lose the use of the valet lockout feature. For more detailed information about this, please see this thread: How to get rid of the "Key in Ignition" warning chime (Changing Country Code).
*2) Hardware Fitment - Rear Lights*
NAR Phaetons are shipped with rear outboard lights that have red turn signal indications, and lack the electronic controller component that operates the rear fog lights. NAR Phaetons do have rear fog lights - the inboard rear lights (the ones in the trunk lid) are the same all over the world. But, in the absence of the controller for these rear fog lights - which is not present in the NAR outboard rear lights - the rear fog lights that are contained in the two inboard rear light assemblies will not illuminate.
This is why you have to replace the two outboard rear light assemblies if you want rear foglight functionality, even though the rear foglights themselves are present in the two inboard light assemblies.
*3) 'Rear Foglight On' Annunciator Light in Instrument Cluster*
We know that MY 2004 and MY 2005 NAR spec Phaetons do have an (unused) 'rear foglight on' annunciator light present in the instrument cluster that will illuminate if the country coding of the car is changed away from USA (or Canada) to Europe. You can test for the presence of this annunciator light simply by changing the country coding to Europe, you don't need to change any parts on the car (no new lightswitch needed, no new rear lights needed).
We believe that this unused annunciator light was deleted from MY 2006 NAR spec Phaeton instrument clusters. This has not been proved for sure, but all the evidence seems to point that way.
*4) LightSwitch Assembly*
Believe it or not, the European light switch assembly is identical in electronic construction to the NAR one, so far as the rear foglight button is concerned. The only difference is that the ROW switch shows a rear foglight icon on the button, and the NAR switch shows a valet lockout icon on the button. When you change the coding of the car away from USA or Canada to Europe, what happens is that the central electrical controller of the Phaeton now interprets actuation of that button to be a command to turn on the rear fogs, not a command to operate the valet lockout. In other words, the two features (rear fogs and valet lockout) are mutually exclusive.
FWIW, the valet lockout feature was only developed so that the NAR Phaetons would not have a blank or inoperative button on the light switch. Europeans have never heard of such a feature (on any brand of car), same way no European car (from any manufacturer) has a 'Panic' button on the key fob to set off the alarm. Those two security features are provided strictly for the USA market only.
Michael


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## rps (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks Michael for your( as usual) extraordinary summary of this complicated situation. How simple life (and Phaeton ownership) would be if one world-wide model existed.
Richard


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## Viergang Fuchs (May 31, 2006)

Stupid question: 
The four-position Euro switch gives me a running light position. I'd like to have that... but I can't figure out what that means. Does it mean that there are little "city lights" in the front headlights which illuminate, as in my old Rovers?


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: (Viergang Fuchs)*

Yes.


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## rps (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (OEMpl.us)*

The running light position also gives the option of using the front fog lamps--which with the NAR switch only work with the headlights on


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Viergang Fuchs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Viergang Fuchs* »_Stupid question: The four-position Euro switch ... Does it mean that there are little "city lights" in the front headlights which illuminate, as in my old Rovers?

Hi Jay:
Not a stupid question at all. The answer is 'yes', as has been mentioned already. There are more details at this post: Front Fog Lights, European Light Switch, Coding of Phaeton Lighting and you can see a picture of the city lights at this post: Understanding the 'Single Side Parking Light' function
Michael


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## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I've had my V8 for a year and a half, but only discovered this forum a couple of weeks ago. Now I'm starting to "Europeanize" my car and fix most of the things that have bugged me since I bought an otherwise fantastic set of wheels. Many, many thanks to you and the others for all your past work that is making this so much easier for me. 
Some results and questions on what I've done so far and what's next on the list.
Reprogrammed Controller 46, function 10 to "0" to allow all doors to unlock.
Reprogrammed Controller 17, function 7 to 5121 to get rid of the seat belt warning and key in lock chimes. That it did, and noticed that the seatbelt icon in the instrument cluster is also gone, along with the chime. Wouldn't have minded the light.
Reprogrammed Controller 9, function 7 to 3 to get rid of DRL and it did, along with no more Valet Lockout. The valet feature won't be missed, since the only time it was activated was unknowingly (didn't see the momentary signal in the instrument cluster since I wasn't looking for it), resulting in a bogus work order to fix an inoperative trunk switch at the 5K inspection and a subsequent education by the dealer mech. But, I don't get the rear fog light icon in the speedometer when I push the right hand button on the light switch either. Early MY 2005 build and still have the three position switch (four position on the way), but all previous posts seem to say I should get the icon, given I also reprogrammed controller 17.
A couple of observations about DRL. With DRL, the aim of the headlights was depressed so much as to be barely visible when first turned on and then took a second or two to rise up to the straight ahead position. Without DRL, the aim is straight ahead from the moment they come on. What's that all about? Also, for you up North "eh" guys that like them, here's a danger factor you've never encountered. The reason I disliked them so much was that when starting up after dark there is no familar instantaneous clue looking out through the windshield that you need headlights turned on. More than once I drove around for a while in the dark before looking down and, because no instruments were visible, realizing I needed to turn on the lights just to get the tail lights. Fortunately, I never had to explain that oversight to the local law.
Next step, replacing the tail lights. And now, since you said to be reminded:


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_The only 'difficult' part of the work is removing the big relay and fuse panel from the left side of the car, so you can get access to the bolts that retain the left tail-light. It is a 30 second job to unclip this relay and fuse panel if you know how to do it - it is a half-hour job, with great risk of broken parts, if you do not know how to do it. The Phaeton service manual does not explain it well - remind me to make a post with an 'illustrated how-to guide' about this, because that relay panel needs to be removed to accomplish other tasks as well, such as battery replacement or battery monitoring controller replacement.

would really appreciate leaning how to do it the quick way.
After tail lights comes the keyless start retrofit. A little de ja vu of all the times I rewired the Bimmer to add instrumentation or a capability that didn't appear until later years. Only this time I won't have to decipher the schematic by myself, thanks to the how-to guides you and Spockcat have created.


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: (Fighterguy)*

Welcome to the Vortex Eric! Let me know when you're ready to start those mods...


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## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: (OEMpl.us)*

As soon as the parts you're sending me arrive. AKA Order 886


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: (Fighterguy)*

Oops!


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## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: (OEMpl.us)*

European rear outboard tail lights installed and work 4.0. Some interesting results.
The right outboard tail light controls the fog light in the left inboard tail light, and vice versa. Wonder what the Germanic logic was on that?
As soon as one Eupropean outboard tail light is installed, the function of the headlight switch right hand button is changed from valet lock to rear fog light. No change of control module coding to the European, or any other country, code required. 
Even after changing the control module coding to European, there is still no rear fog light icon in the speedometer guage for my MY 05 January build car. So, this is not a MY 06 change. As reported earlier, the icon location under the resting speedometer needle that used to be for rear fog lights is now for the tire pressure warning system. Have not yet installed the European light switch to see if that makes any difference.
When changing the control module Coding to any country other than NAR, you are stuck with Imperial gallons as the unit of measure. Tried all the countries just to see. Same result. Rue Brittania.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Fighterguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fighterguy* »_ The right outboard tail light controls the fog light in the left inboard tail light, and vice versa. Wonder what the Germanic logic was on that?

Very good logic, in fact. The rationale behind it is that if one rear light controller unit fails (the controllers being embedded in the outboard assemblies), you won't lose both lights on the same side of the vehicle... you will still have the functional controller, plus the inboard light assembly on the opposite side of the vehicle.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Fighterguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fighterguy* »_...As soon as one European outboard tail light is installed, the function of the headlight switch right hand button is changed from valet lock to rear fog light. No change of control module coding to the European, or any other country, code required.

Had you previously changed the coding of the central electrical controller (controller 09) to turn off your daytime running lights? My understanding is that if the DRLs are coded to NAR, the rear foglight switch controls the valet trunk lockout, and if the DRLs are coded to either of the other two positions (off or Scandinavia), the rear foglight switch controls the rear foglights.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Here is a picture showing the turn signal illuminated on the ROW (Rest of World) Phaeton tail light. Outside of North America, the turn signal is amber, this being a legal requirement. Within North America, red turn signals are allowed - although amber turn signals are also acceptable.
*Turn Signal - ROW Phaeton*


----------



## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks for the explanation why left controls right and vice versa. Knew that anything German couldn't be illogical, but just couldn't see it myself. 
Sorry to not be explicit about controllers and confusing even myself. Yes, I had already changed controller 09 to the ROW code which, in retrospect, is why the new tail light module fog light functioned as soon as it was plugged in. When talking about European codes here, I was really talking about controller 17. Shouldn't have expected that its coding would affect the light switch funtionality, and it didn't. Was hoping that its coding might have something to do with the missing rear fog light icon in the speedometer, but it didn't there either.
Speaking of controller 17, is there any adaptation channel for the backlight intensity in the speedometer/tach? I've seen in a different thread where someone would like to make it functional in the daytime. I, on the other hand, would like to be able to make it dimmer than the current minimum setting at night. As a pilot, minimizing the the glare from instrument lights inside the cockpit increases visual acuity out through the windscreen and canopy. Same principle applies while driving at night.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Fighterguy)*

Hi Eric:
There are about three or four different 'regional-related' settings in the Phaeton - the short story is that controller 09 (central electrical) will affect the valet lockout vs. rear foglight (those two items being mutually exclusive), the controller 17 (instrument cluster) setting will affect key in ignition chimes and toggle the interpretation of a gallon (as in MPG) between imperial and metric, and what you load into controller 07 (the big central display unit between the front seats) will affect the phraseology, vocabulary, accent, and language used by the navigation system voice.
To make matters even more confusing (or, interesting, depending on your perspective of it) there are dozens of small changes that can be made at the byte level of controller coding that affect all sorts of things, from whether your outside rear view mirrors move synchronously and asymmetrically when you adjust them to whether the back-up lights are automatically disabled if the trunk lid is not closed.
It's not possible to tweak the instrument cluster lighting. I think this is because it is fluorescent, and uses an inverter to provide power to the lamps... but I am not sure of that. There is a button on the steering wheel (outboard side when pointing straight ahead) you can press to turn off all illumination to the steering wheel buttons. This makes quite a difference at night. Pressing the ON / DARK button on the central display will also turn it off, which is a nice relief on long highway trips at night.
Michael


----------



## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Had already tried shutting off the Central Display screen and the steering wheel button lights and it was still not enough for me. Intrument cluster the one that's closest to my line of sight. You may be correct about a minumum voltage requirement for fluorescence, but didn't think flourescent lights had a variable light output capability. So, still on my things to figure out list.
Break, break. I managed to replace the left tail light without removing the left fuze panel. Unlocked the bottom and rotated it up enough. However, I realized that if I ever had to replace the battery it would have to come out. Earlier you mentioned it was easy, if one just knew the trick. Not obvious to me and didn't need it this time. But, looking ahead a few years to battery replacement time, would like to know.
Thanks again for all your work on so many topics of interest.
Eric


----------



## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

"LightSwitch Assembly
Believe it or not, the European light switch assembly is identical in electronic construction to the NAR one, so far as the rear foglight button is concerned. The only difference is that the ROW switch shows a rear foglight icon on the button, and the NAR switch shows a valet lockout icon on the button. When you change the coding of the car away from USA or Canada to Europe, what happens is that the central electrical controller of the Phaeton now interprets actuation of that button to be a command to turn on the rear fogs, not a command to operate the valet lockout. In other words, the two features (rear fogs and valet lockout) are mutually exclusive"
*Ok, maybe I'm a little confused here. If I put the Euro lights on my 
car do I just reprogram to non-NAR? If I do this is there a way to reprogram to US gallons?*


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (petermueller)*

Hi Peter:
If you put the European specification outboard rear lights on your Phaeton, and do nothing else other than simply swap out the two rear light assemblies, the only thing that will change is that you will now have yellow turn signals at the back of the car, and no reflectors on the sides of the two rear outboard lights.
If you change the country code of the vehicle (coding of the central electrical controller, which is controller 09) away from USA to either Europe or Scandinavia, then you will lose the valet lockout function, and the button that formerly activated the valet lockout will now activate the rear fog lights. It is not necessary to change the light switch itself in order to accomplish this.
If you change the light switch from NAR spec to ROW spec, you will have the ability to turn the parking lights (only) on if you wish. This is the only thing that is affected by the light switch change-out. (Well, you get a different label on the right hand side button - looks like a fog light, not a valet lockout - but that is a cosmetic difference, not an electrical difference).
If you change the country coding away from USA and over to Europe or Scandinavia without changing the rear outboard lights (for example, for the purpose of silencing the 'key in ignition' door chime), you will kill the valet lockout feature (the car will attempt to illuminate the rear foglights, but nothing will happen), and you will also cause the car to consider a 'gallon' to be 4.54 liters (an Imperial gallon), rather than 3.78 liters (an American gallon). The logic behind this is that cars used in Europe or Scandinavia will encounter Imperial gallons if they are used in the United Kingdom, but cars shipped to North America will only encounter American gallons (Canada and Mexico both use metric measurements).
Hope this explains it. The light switch swap-out, the rear outboard light swap-out, and the coding change can all be carried out independently of each other, and none of the three require any other to be completed at the same time. If you apply Boolean logic to the results described above, you will determine that functional rear foglights and the valet lockout function are mutually exclusive, and functional rear foglights and volume measurement in American gallons are also mutually exclusive.
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 12:12 PM 11-22-2006_


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Peter:
If you put the European specification outboard rear lights on your Phaeton...
The light switch swap-out, the rear outboard light swap-out, and the coding change can all be carried out independently of each other, and none of the three require any other to be completed at the same time. 
If you apply Boolean logic to the results described above, you will determine that functional rear foglights and the valet lockout function are mutually exclusive, and functional rear foglights and volume measurement in American gallons are also mutually exclusive.
Michael


So, if I understand "Boolean" there is no way I can have American gallons and functioning rear fog lights. I just got a set of lights from Germany after waiting a month for delivery and the Vag-Com is coming for Christmas. Since imperial gallons are "bigger" than US gallons, the gas milage indicated on the trip data recorder should improve. Is that correct? When my central display shows 20 MPG on the highway is the Phaeton really getting 23.4 MPG US?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by Paldi at 5:25 PM 12-6-2006_


----------



## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (Paldi)*

Fred:
That's my take on it. But look at the bright side you can use the switch that you have in your car the valet just becomes the rear fog light!


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (petermueller)*

I like the looks of those yellow turn signals. The fog light recode can wait.


----------



## rps (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (Paldi)*

I changed my tailights several months ago. Have "beautiful" amber turn signals and functioning rear fog lamps. I changed the headlight switch as well---but as I mentioned previously, have had no luck illuminating the rear fog icon----I don't believe it exists on the NAR Phaeton. I also have noticed that the parking lights do not go on with the headlights. Not sure if this is a function of all the re-coding (to European) or if they were that way to begin with,
Richard


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (rps)*

Richard:
What affect did the recode have on your trip computer read outs? Is the "Imperial gallons" thing an issue for you? A US gallon is 83% of an Imperial gallon so the display would indicate I'm getting 17% less MPG than actual? Is the math right?
Michael eliminated my 'key in the ignition' door chime last year, so maybe I've been burning Imperial gallons and have no valet key feature? I've never used the valet key... 
Maybe this is altering the miles per gallon readings, eg. an indicated 20 MP*I*G on the highway is really 17% better or 23.4 MP*US*G! I like that... Did you notice any difference in reported gas milage after you recoded?

_Quote »_
If you change the country coding away from USA and over to Europe or Scandinavia without changing the rear outboard lights (for example, for the purpose of silencing the 'key in ignition' door chime), you will kill the valet lockout feature (the car will attempt to illuminate the rear foglights, but nothing will happen), and you will also cause the car to consider a 'gallon' to be 4.54 liters (an Imperial gallon), rather than 3.78 liters (an American gallon). 





_Modified by Paldi at 5:42 PM 12-6-2006_


----------



## rps (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (Paldi)*

At first I thought my MPG improved dramatically because I got rid of the DRL. Of course this was wishful thinking. I belatedly discovered (at the Florida GTG) that changing the codes provided my readings with Imperial gallons. It actually has a psychological advantage--thinking of getting such terrific MPG. I also now have the European symbol (speedo) for cruise control, instead of the words CRUISE.


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (rps)*

Aha! The opposite of what I thought... So it pumps a 'larger' gallon and therefore the car goes more miles on one, not less.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Paldi)*

Just a post-script to this discussion, arising from a question that was asked here: TPMS annunciator icon question -
Most model year 2004 Phaetons that were shipped to North America support illumination of the rear foglight annunciator icon on the instrument panel when the car is coded to indicate a rear foglight is installed (meaning, controller 09 is coded to either 1 or 3, but not 2). However...
...not all MY 2005 and 2006 Phaetons shipped to the United States market - meaning, shipped with instrument clusters marked in MPH and displaying temperatures in Imperial units (°F) support illumination of the rear foglight icon when the car is coded away from NAR. Some owners have reported that a TPMS icon lights up, others have reported that a different icon (I can't remember exactly what) lights up. The thread referenced in the above paragraph explains the reasons behind this.
Canadian cars, which are equipped with instrument clusters that display speeds in km/h and temperature in SI (°C) will likely always support the display of the rear foglight icon, regardless of model year, because they use the same instrument cluster PN as a Continental European car equipped with the same engine.
Michael
*Rear Foglight Icon* (It's the one hiding under the speedometer needle)


----------



## A8PIMP (Mar 26, 2007)

*Phaeton Taillights*

Have you owners noticed the reluctance of tailgaters to stay behind you for long distances? I recently saw a V8 with really bright LED tails (at night) I have some pics somewhere.
u guys have a great forum here btw


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (A8PIMP)*

Phaeton is a light in the darkness all right. You gotta see the rear fog lights on! Like phasers.








Saw your post on VWWorld. Glad you found us.


----------



## A8PIMP (Mar 26, 2007)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (Paldi)*


----------



## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (A8PIMP)*

Rear fog lights are really bright!! I use them in heavy fog and snow only. I guess if I had a tailgater I might be inclined to turn them on-but who tailgates a Phaeton?


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (petermueller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *petermueller* »_Rear fog lights are really bright!! I use them in heavy fog and snow only. I guess if I had a tailgater I might be inclined to turn them on-but who tailgates a Phaeton?









If you are referring to the pics in the post above yours, those are are likely brake lights, not fog lights. The CHMSL (center high mounted stop light (?)) is on. 
It is possible that rear fogs are on as well, but that is unlikely as rear fogs were not installed on NAR Phaetons.


----------



## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (car_guy)*

Had a friend in his Jag follow me the other night to a restaurant and he said he was almost blinded by my brake lights. The backup lights however are not even as bright as a dead firefly. 
RB


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (car_guy)*

Fogs... or, how to keep folks from tailgating without tapping the brakes.


















_Modified by Paldi at 12:40 PM 4-28-2007_


----------



## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

Hey Fred, when I switched to the Euro fog lights I had to change over to Imperial gallons, have you figured out a way around that?


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (petermueller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *petermueller* »_Hey Fred, when I switched to the Euro fog lights I had to change over to Imperial gallons, have you figured out a way around that?

No, but I haven't put the lights in yet. Too cold until recently and I have been getting random messages to check the brake lights. I want to see if that problem sorts out now that the software reflash and CHMSL replacement are done. I fear it hasn't resolved.... got two more messages last week. So the two euro tail lamps are sitting in the LR.
Have you seen an increase or a decrease in indicated gas mielage as a result of the changeover to Imperial gallons? I'm still confused about the math and how the internal controllers and computers calculate MPG.



_Modified by Paldi at 11:31 PM 4-28-2007_


----------



## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

Makes it look like you are getting better gas milage


----------



## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: (petermueller)*

Anyone found a way to get the backup lights to be brighter without melting the tail light lenses?
RB


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *petermueller* »_...when I switched to the Euro fog lights I had to change over to Imperial gallons, have you figured out a way around that?

There is no workaround for that. NAR (North American Region) cars are the only ones in the world that are shipped without rear foglights - they have a valet lockout system installed in what is normally the rear foglight button. In order to enable operation of the rear foglight, you have to code the "region of operation" of the car away from North America (Canada or USA) to any other world region (UK, Europe, Saudi Arabia, whatever).
Because the only country in the world that uses American gallons as a unit of measurement is the USA, as soon as you code the car's region of operation to any country other than the USA, gallons will now be expressed as Imperial gallons, not American gallons.
The coding function that chooses between rear foglight operation and valet lockout function is the exact same coding function that chooses between Imperial gallons and American gallons. In other words, if you have a functional valet lockout system, your car will calculate in American gallons, and if you have a functional rear foglight, your car will calculate in Imperial gallons. The 'double-changeover' that happens when you change the coding to or away from USA is inseparable. The only exception to this is if you set the region of operation to Canada - then you will have a valet lockout function and Imperial gallons.
Michael


----------



## rps (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (petermueller)*

I have the same issue having replaced my rear lights for the European (amber turn signals and rear fogs) Have you noticed that your CRUISE icon is now the international symbol for cruise control? In a previous posting I mentioned that there is no rear fog light icon on the NAR Phaeton.


----------



## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (rps)*

Same with mine. Heck when my rear fog lights are on all the signs visible in my rearview mirror are illuminated in red!!!


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Engage reheat!


----------



## G132RLG (Dec 10, 2006)

*Re: (Prince Ludwig)*

If you want to work out mileage in US Gallons when displayed in Imperial gallons, multiply the displayed mileage by 0.844


----------



## adamkodish (Mar 5, 2006)

*Re: (G132RLG)*

Its 83.3%, derived as follows:
1 US gallon = 3.785 litres
1 UK gallon = 4.546 litres
ratio US:UK = 3.785/4.546 = 83.3%
Perhaps we should all agree to quote gas mileage in litres/100km terms?
Calc this as follows:
l/100km = 284.125/UK_mpg
l/100km = 236.363/US_mpg
You can derive these equations for yourselves








...or you could always set Phaeton to use metric unit measurements

_Quote, originally posted by *G132RLG* »_If you want to work out mileage in US Gallons when displayed in Imperial gallons, multiply the displayed mileage by 0.844

 

_Modified by adamkodish at 1:41 PM 4-29-2007_


_Modified by adamkodish at 1:42 PM 4-29-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (rps)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rps* »_Have you noticed that your CRUISE icon is now the international symbol for cruise control? 

Hi Richard:
That changeover (from the word 'CRUISE' to the ISO symbol) also takes place automatically as a result of coding the region of operation away from Canada or USA to any other region. Another change that is part and parcel of that is that the 'key in ignition' warning chime whenever the driver door is opened - something mandated by the US government - also disappears. 

_Quote, originally posted by *rps* »_In a previous posting I mentioned that there is no rear fog light icon on the NAR Phaeton. 

It appears that the rear fog light icon in the instrument cluster of _*MY 2006*_ North American Phaetons will not illuminate - which suggests that VW has introduced a North America specific instrument cluster for MY 2006. MY 2004 and 2005 NAR Phaetons will display a rear fog light illuminated icon when they are coded away from Canada or USA as region of operation.
Michael


----------



## sirAQUAMAN64 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

They're meant to be seen!
I've only tailed one Phaeton at night, when I was on Miami Beach... turned into a hotel. Swanky.


----------



## rps (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I find it extraordinary that VW would go through the expense of manufacturing a separate instrument cluster for the NAR Phaetons.
What were they thinking?
Richard


----------



## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: (rps)*

I also have imperial fuel mileage by dint of turning off the "key in ignition" and seatbelt chimes. For a while I thought I was getting great mileage until reality set in!
The instrument panels seem to be the same for NAR and ROW, the programming takes care of which symbol to illuminate, but then mine is a 2005 maybe they changed for 2006 or just did not allow the controller to access the RoW symbols. Seems like VW tries hard to prevent VAG COM owners to make changes










_Modified by Gobuster at 12:34 PM 5-1-2007_


----------



## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: (sirAQUAMAN64)*

The car turned into a hotel? That IS impressive!


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Gobuster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gobuster* »_...maybe they changed for 2006 or just did not allow the controller to access the RoW symbols...

I suspect that it was just a running component change for 2006, and certainly not any deliberate attempt by VW to prevent NAR owners from having access to the rear foglight icon. In fact, there might even be a way to enable the rear foglight icon on the MY 2006 NAR spec cars - but none of us have "informally asked" what the process is.
These kind of component changes work in both directions. Beginning right around the end of 2004 production, it became possible to enable control of the windows and sunroof with the remote key fob on NAR vehicles - this was not possible on 2004 cars with VINs below about 11,000. This little Easter Egg was not intentional, it was just a unanticipated consequence of a running change in the software of one of the controllers.
Michael


----------



## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
I suspect that it was just a running component change for 2006, and certainly not any deliberate attempt by VW to prevent NAR owners from having access to the rear foglight icon. In fact, there might even be a way to enable the rear foglight icon on the MY 2006 NAR spec cars - but none of us have "informally asked" what the process is.


My early MY 2005 does not display the rear foglight icon after conversion of taillights/switch, and recoding. Controller Part # 3D0 920 981 Q and coding 5121. If someone else has a MY 2005 and can see the icon, I'd be interested in what recode was used to get it.


----------



## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: (OEMpl.us)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OEMpl.us* »_The car turned into a hotel? That IS impressive!









The door was ajar (as a certain robotic voice used to say)







.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (OEMpl.us)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OEMpl.us* »_The car turned into a hotel? That IS impressive!









Rich,
Certainly the backseat's large enough to hold a small reception. I suppose you can VAGCOM amenities ranging from Holidome to full-on Ritz-Carlton.
Michael,
When I engage my rear fog, an amber "low tire" icon appears in my instrument cluster. Odd.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Fogs... or, how to keep folks from tailgating without tapping the brakes.

















_Modified by Paldi at 12:40 PM 4-28-2007_


Gosh, just looking at them on my computer screen is blinding!!!


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (dcowan699)*

Hey - howdy David, great to see you back!
Michael


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hey - howdy David, great to see you back!
Michael

Hey Michael. I hope you are doing great!!!!


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (dcowan699)*

I'm having fun - doing a "Phaeton Ferry Flight" across America right now. There is a sticky post about it at the top of page 1 (or click here: The "PanEuropean goes Pan-American" Travelling Phaeton GTG - starts Sunday...).
Michael


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I'm having fun - doing a "Phaeton Ferry Flight" across America right now. There is a sticky post about it at the top of page 1 (or click here: The "PanEuropean goes Pan-American" Travelling Phaeton GTG - starts Sunday...).
Michael

All these messed up teeth in Trussville won't let me get out of town to meet you Michael. I swear, I'm gonna head up that way soon (I hope). Chris, Brent and the rest of us need another Phaeton GTG. I know I don't have one anymore but I miss my friends. I may look into another Phaeton soon. Maybe a used white one. Kim's Lexus is too small. I wish I could get her to trade up to a Phaeton







I shopped around for a used one and it seems the prices have held up very well in the past year. Still in the $45K range!!!


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_All these messed up teeth in Trussville won't let me get out of town

All both of 'em?


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_Chris, Brent and the rest of us need another Phaeton GTG. I know I don't have one anymore but I miss my friends.

Hey David, 
We still can use skilled hands for the push button start install.







I got a guy here in KC that wants to do it.
Regards,
Brent


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (W126C)*

Funny guys. Real funny! Look here. I just found a Phaeton in Nashville with phone installed with only 26K miles. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem
I wonder if they'd trade for a couple of motorcycles??? I can't let go of the Benz but the motorcycles are not getting used much anymore.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (W126C)*


_Quote, originally posted by *W126C* »_We still can use skilled hands for the push button start install.







I got a guy here in KC that wants to do it.

To see the masters at work once again? Lemme know when!!!


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (chrisj428)*

I'm gonna have to MAKE TIME to get to Kansas and help with that. I just IM'd Chris that I will check my calendar and see if I can get up that way within the next month. My band is really getting a lot of gigs and I have to constantly monitor that schedule. I also am recording trumpet parts in commercials here lately. Not bad extra money!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I'm gonna speak with the wife right now and go over my calendar. Maybe we can land a good weekend here soon. I'll post back ASAP.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Taillights (W126C)*


_Quote, originally posted by *W126C* »_
Hey David, 
We still can use skilled hands for the push button start install.







I got a guy here in KC that wants to do it.
Regards,
Brent


Brent, does he already have the parts??? It seems I can make it up there on the weekend of May 31st through June 3rd.


----------



## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: Enabling (or retrofitting) a rear foglight on a North American Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
If you have the time, would you fix the links for the photos in this thread.
Thank you,
Douglas


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Enabling (copernicus0001)*

Photos re-hosted.
Michael


----------



## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: Enabling (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Thank you very much.
Douglas


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Enabling (copernicus0001)*

Well now that you brought it up. I still don't have an icon illuminating when the rear fogs are on.








Regards,
Brent


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Enabling (W126C)*

*Archival Note:* Related discussion - Rear Foglight Icon in Instrument Cluster


----------



## Jim_CT (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: Enabling (PanEuropean)*

I installed the European tail lights yesterday. The left side was done in about 15 minutes. The right side took a lot longer, because the torx screws towards the outside of the car were very tight, and I had to drill out one of them after stripping the screw head. All the tail light screws have been replaced by hex head screws.
With the light switch in the fog light position, the rear fog lights won't turn on unless the front fog lights are turned on first. But with the light switch in the automatic or the on position, the rear fog lights can be turned on independent of the front fog lights.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Enabling (Jim_CT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jim_CT* »_With the light switch in the fog light position, the rear fog lights won't turn on unless the front fog lights are turned on first. But with the light switch in the automatic or the on position, the rear fog lights can be turned on independent of the front fog lights. 

That is normal, and is by design.
Michael


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: (kojack)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kojack* »_damn! that car is HOT!...im doing this with my passat as well....considering I live in one of the foggiest places in canada....safety first

I find it amusing that this is so hard to do with a Phaeton but rather simple with a B5.5 Passat.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (B5Speedo)*

Next week my euro tails go in. It will be interesting to see yellow turn signals. I don't plan on doing the coding for activating the fog lamps, at least for a while.


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## MichaelGa (Dec 1, 2009)

*Re: Enabling (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I will replace my US tail lights with European ones for the amber / rear fog light option this weekend. I have only peeked behind the lamps so far and noticed in your pictures that the fuse panel was removed. Before I tackle this what would be the best way at getting the fuse panel out of the way? Is it screwed in or snapped in? Any assistance to make my change over would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Mike


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Enabling (MichaelGa)*

The worst thing about driving in Europe in the dark or fog is the blinding red rear fog lights of the vehicles in front. The things are a curse!


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Enabling (invisiblewave)*

My Euro tail lights have been in for about a year now but I never did the recoding or purchased the four position switch - so I haven't the foggiest idea what they look like.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Enabling (Paldi)*

Trust me, they're horrible! And they're even more useless than TPMS! The only time they're of any value is when the fog's so bad you shouldn't be driving anyway!


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## MichaelGa (Dec 1, 2009)

*Re: Enabling (invisiblewave)*

Anybody..
"Michael,
I will replace my US tail lights with European ones for the amber / rear fog light option this weekend. I have only peeked behind the lamps so far and noticed in your pictures that the fuse panel was removed. Before I tackle this what would be the best way at getting the fuse panel out of the way? Is it screwed in or snapped in? Any assistance to make my change over would be appreciated.
Thanks!"


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*The gasket*

One of my tail lights was cracked by hoodlums playing tag football in a parking lot, so I decided to buy new lights. I was lucky enough that a prominent former member of this forum (and now _banned_!) was selling one of his Phaetons, and disposing of accessories such as the Euro rear light set. So I got the pair from him for $250 plus shipping, or so, which I thought was quite a deal. :thumbup:

The lights sat in their box for a few months until I got an ultimatum from the wife, and as I had by now decided I did not want to mess with removing the driver side rear fuse box, off to the dealer it went. 1 Hr @ $105, and labor is yet untaxed to the consumer in Florida (be grateful for small miracles). 

The service tech did a great job, and the amber lights now match the amber mirror blinkers. Some people say there is an additional margin of safety in that there is a small fraction of a second where the guy behind you does not have to grasp the difference between a red stopping light and an amber flasher, but who knows. Go ask the Europeans for safety data! :what:

Other than extremely sharp-eyed Phaeton owners, of course, no-one will ever know you have "upgraded" lights.  Most people have hardly even ever seen a Phaeton, much less know what tail lights it has.

Anyway, for anyone replacing lights in the future, be warned: the interface between the exterior and the interior of the car happens on a lip inward of the light assembly. The outside cavity where 95% of the light assembly sits is all dusty, whereas the inside of the car, near the fuse panel and the battery, is apparently as dustless as new. This is accomplished by an oval foam gasket not much larger than the circumference of a drinking cup. The thing does not even weigh 1 oz.

Part 3D0-945-191-C

The gasket comes in a plastic bag and it's self-adhesive. They quote $53.45 and I got them for $40.00. _Each_. :screwy:

Plus tax.

The service tech said it could be quite a mistake to try and install replacement lights without a new gasket. Apparently, you don't want humidity entering either of the battery areas. So watch out if you ever have repair work done and the lights are removed and reinstalled.


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## zouk_1 (Nov 11, 2010)

*Rear turn signals on the Phaeton (Amber vs Red)*

This is for all you Phaeton enthusiast. Does anyone own, or know of anyone who owns, a Phaeton with the Euro-spec amber-color turn signals?

I will be picking up a 2004 VW W12 Phaeton in a couple of days. Does anyone know if the Euro-spec rear light assembly (with the amber turn signal) can be retrofitted to a US-spec car? Is the foot-print the same? Are the electrical connectors the same? Is this a one-for-one swap?
Please advise.
Thnx


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

If you click the link to the FAQ thread on the front page, you may be interested to find a topic called "Enabling (or retrofitting) a rear foglight on a North American Phaeton"...

Harry


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## vah (Oct 12, 2007)

yes,
i did this on my car, looks grear.
but you will also need the to change the light switch.

victor


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## rps (May 2, 2006)

*amber turn signals*

I replaced my taillights when I first got my 2006 Phaeton. I also replaced the headlight switch at the time. I thought I was the only one in South Florida with amber turn signals (and rear fogs) on a Phaeton. Remember, on the 2006 NAR Phaeton, the dashboard icon for the rear fog lights is non-functional.
RPS


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## rps (May 2, 2006)

*amber turn signals*

I also have a 2010 Audi Q5 and have researched replacing the rear LED's (with red LED turn signals) with the European version---however I have learned that the switch is quite complicated as compared with the Phaeton. The Euro Audi has a 4-prong plug while the US version an 8 prong plug--and thus new wiring (or an adaptor) would be necessary. As the lamps are very expensive, it would be a gamble. 
RPS


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## zouk_1 (Nov 11, 2010)

*Rear turn signals on the Phaeton (Amber vs Red)*

Hi there, Prince,
So I finally got my W12 and I also went ahead and picked up a pair of ROW tail lights with the amber turn signals. Looks great!! Thanks for all your helpful information. 

Now, for the next step, which is to get the 4-position light switch so I can enable the rear fop light. Tell me, is it as simple as just installing the replacement 4-position light switch and then we're good to go? Or, do I also have to reprogram something else?

Also, do you, or anyone know of a good W12 mechanic in the Los Angeles area? 
Please advise.


Thnx


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

If the Cent Elect 09 coding is changed to Scandinavia, 0000001 the DRL adds the taillights.

Additionally, the rear fog can be turned on without the front fog. (extra reversing lights)


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## MichaelGa (Dec 1, 2009)

zouk_1 said:


> Now, for the next step, which is to get the 4-position light switch so I can enable the rear fop light. Tell me, is it as simple as just installing the replacement 4-position light switch and then we're good to go? Or, do I also have to reprogram something else?
> 
> 
> Thnx


The four position light switch will allow you to turn on the rear fogs. The US light switch which has the valet symbol will pull out with some pressure. The Euro plugs in the same way. Push it in until it clicks or remains firm in position. I also had Vag-Com disable the DRL's. This is your choice. I like the ability to run with just the parking lights and or with front fogs but not head lights on. Again this is a preference thing. If you disable the DRL's just make sure you don't have the valet switch on before you do this or you won't be able to open the trunk using the switch on the door. 

Nice to know that you have the rear fogs but in most places its never foggy enough and others will think you're just riding on your brakes because it's not US regulation like it is in Europe. I did the switch for the amber turn signal for safety. Ever been behind a car that has red turn signals, taps brakes while signaling before a turn? Which way will it go....


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## phaetonenvy (Jun 2, 2006)

zouk_1

As for LA based mechanics:

I recommend Ivan at Santa Monica VW.

He does great work - and Jeff Crawford, the Phaeton SA is a pleasure to work with.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted. 

Michael


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