# MTM claims they can flash to 245 hp



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

https://www.mtm-usa.com/collections/tiguan-ad-2018/products/performance-upgrade-4d-tiguan

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## 2019TiguanSELPRLINE (Nov 24, 2019)

$800 for .2 faster??? No thanks 


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

Really interesting hmmm... 
Anyone know of any other tuners?


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

GTiWizard said:


> Really interesting hmmm...
> Anyone know of any other tuners?


Reflect tuning, Eurocharge, Nostrum Motorsports all have tunes for these.


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

zimmie2652 said:


> Reflect tuning, Eurocharge, Nostrum Motorsports all have tunes for these.


I've seen a lot of people point to Reflect and Eurocharged but neither have a B-cycle tune listed on their websites and Nostrum doesn't even have a website I can find. The few confirmed tunes or plugins like Burger's don't even have performance numbers or graphs. I'd highly, _highly_ suggest waiting for Uni or APR. You'll get a tune from a highly reputable tuner, you most likely won't have to ship your ECU in, and they'll be much more involved than others.


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

Well so I contact MTM. They already got back to me. They have been testing this file in Germany for a year now. They verified their results with a car here in the US a few weeks ago, and now are offering. 

I have heard their name on Audis before, for building some crazy S8s, and even more recently the new RS6. I think they were started by someone related to Audi in Germany as well. I am still on the fence, but will probably make a decision on the next few days, just gotta convince the boss because it is her car after all.... 

At least the ball is actually rolling now.


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## 2019TiguanSELPRLINE (Nov 24, 2019)

Hmm I thought MTM only made foam cannons? #themoreyouknow


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

2019TiguanSELPRLINE said:


> Hmm I thought MTM only made foam cannons? #themoreyouknow
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Apparently there is more than one. 

Their Instagram seem pretty legit tho. Not lightweight stuff. 
https://www.instagram.com/mtm_usa/


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

GTiWizard said:


> Well so I contact MTM. They already got back to me. They have been testing this file in Germany for a year now. They verified their results with a car here in the US a few weeks ago, and now are offering.
> 
> I have heard their name on Audis before, for building some crazy S8s, and even more recently the new RS6. I think they were started by someone related to Audi in Germany as well. I am still on the fence, but will probably make a decision on the next few days, just gotta convince the boss because it is her car after all....
> 
> At least the ball is actually rolling now.


I was talking to one of their reps on Facebook last night. Seem like a great group of guys. 

We discussed their tuning philosophy a good bit and where they felt this platform could go. Definitely seemed very promising. They are definitely under the radar stateside but huge in Germany. 

They more or less believe in delivering safer linear power and consider themselves to be a less aggressive tuner. 

They do offer a 25 day customer guarantee as well.


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

Yeah I think I am going to go ahead and do it, got an approval sort off from the boss.


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## xd-data-ii (Feb 22, 2012)

Seems standard that the ECUs will need to be shipped for these. It’ll be the same with APR, although Unitronic list their UniConnect as an option. But it could be likely that they will need to have the ECU shipped. 
So no going back to stock if needed to bring in for servicing with these ... yet. 
Hope they don’t need to crack open the ECUs like the mk6 gti tunes did for a long while. That was problematic. 

No info about different programs or tune slots or options or fuel requirements etc at MTM.


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

xd-data-ii said:


> Seems standard that the ECUs will need to be shipped for these. It’ll be the same with APR, although Unitronic list their UniConnect as an option. But it could be likely that they will need to have the ECU shipped.
> So no going back to stock if needed to bring in for servicing with these ... yet.
> Hope they don’t need to crack open the ECUs like the mk6 gti tunes did for a long while. That was problematic.
> 
> No info about different programs or tune slots or options or fuel requirements etc at MTM.


Good questions about opening the ECU. I believe they don't have too. However before I go ahead and do it I am going to double check with them.


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

AkiraSieghart said:


> I've seen a lot of people point to Reflect and Eurocharged but neither have a B-cycle tune listed on their websites and Nostrum doesn't even have a website I can find. The few confirmed tunes or plugins like Burger's don't even have performance numbers or graphs. I'd highly, _highly_ suggest waiting for Uni or APR. You'll get a tune from a highly reputable tuner, you most likely won't have to ship your ECU in, and they'll be much more involved than others.


I talked to Reflect...they do claim to offer a tune for the Gen3B 2.0T. The Dyno they sent me was apparently from a 2017 Audi A4 Ultra FWD that uses the same Gen3B. They were making 235hp/307TQ but it was the same deal, you had to mail in your ECU.


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

MTM emailed me back a picture of the cables they use to flash the ECU. They actually just connect to the plugs on the ECU. No need to open it.


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## xd-data-ii (Feb 22, 2012)

Guess need to find out if UniConnect will work with Unitronic so we can flash it ourselves and back to stock before going for service etc. If so that will be worth the investment over others. 
APR requires the ECU shipped to them.


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

Well. Im doing it. 
Already removed the ECU, packed and sending it out today. They should have it by Wednesday and I should have it by end of the week.


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## xd-data-ii (Feb 22, 2012)

GTiWizard said:


> Well. Im doing it.
> Already removed the ECU, packed and sending it out today. They should have it by Wednesday and I should have it by end of the week.


Nice!! 
Excited to see what you think about it. 
Did you get any other information on what options it has or fuel requirements? I expect 91 is needed but would also like to an option (or map) for using 87.


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

xd-data-ii said:


> Nice!!
> Excited to see what you think about it.
> Did you get any other information on what options it has or fuel requirements? I expect 91 is needed but would also like to an option (or map) for using 87.


So peak power is 93 Octane. 91 is required. Power figures they posted are on 91 octane. 
No 87 or 89 map.


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## Preppy (May 3, 2001)

GTiWizard said:


> MTM emailed me back a picture of the cables they use to flash the ECU. They actually just connect to the plugs on the ECU. No need to open it.


Good luck. Can’t wait to hear about the results. 

As for bench flashing... this reminds me of my AWW 1.8T, like 18-19 years ago. Literally had to remove the ecu and solder a piggyback ‘chip’ to the ic board. 


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

Preppy said:


> Good luck. Can’t wait to hear about the results.
> 
> As for bench flashing... this reminds me of my AWW 1.8T, like 18-19 years ago. Literally had to remove the ecu and solder a piggyback ‘chip’ to the ic board.
> 
> ...


So I actually asked them about this before I ordered this weekend. They sent me a picture, its a bench flash. However its through an OEM connector to the ECU, no need to open. I believe they told me they were going to put that picture on the website because they had a few inquiries about it.


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

I'm interested in knowing the results as well as speed of the ECU return. With all of this COVID-19 business, I'm working from home and don't usually _need_ to drive anywhere, but I wouldn't want my Tiguan down for much more than a week. As far as I've seen in the respective threads, Uni and APR haven't confirmed (or denied) that flashing will be able to be done by consumers so I'm still holding out hope. MTM also removed their improved 0-60MPH time from their website and their stock torque numbers are wrong. Either way, I can't find a dyno graph of a stock NA Tiguan but I'd expect 245HP to be around 215-220WHP with drivetrain loss and around 250WTQ. Not bad. I'm also hoping that either Uni or APR can develop a TCU flash as well which should really improve the stock sluggishness.


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## xd-data-ii (Feb 22, 2012)

APR confirmed in the replies to the Tiguan dyno Facebook post that they will require the ECU shipped. 

Still holding out for a Unitronic UniConnect option


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

So if you guys had your choice and money was not a concern, which would you choose?

Reflect Tuning's, 235hp 307TQ $500 + shipping

OR

MTM's Tune with 245hp 280tq $719 + shipping


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

srivkin78 said:


> So if you guys had your choice and money was not a concern, which would you choose?
> 
> Reflect Tuning's, 235hp 307TQ $500 + shipping
> 
> ...


307? That's pretty wild. My concern would be with the tranny. The Aisin we get is rated substantially lower than most are thinking. Per their website and the tranny code I pulled with OBD11, these things can only hold about 330lb/ft. 

I guess the question at that point would be how comfortable you feel to push the boundaries? Between the two I'm not really sure which route I would go. I've read many less than stellar things about Ian and how he conducts business but can not truly speak on the matter either, as I have no personal experience and do not want to speculate too much on something I do not know. MTM seem to be super reputable and a great company but they are relatively unknown stateside and that unknown could prove to be either bad or good once they start getting a foothold in our market. 

I for one am perfectly okay letting all you other guys guinea pig and then re-evaluating the situation and deciding after we start getting some honest reviews and long term feedback. LOL.


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

What sold me on MTM was that when I looked them up on Google, (spelling out their name turned more results). I found videos on drive tribe about a twin engine first gen TT with 900HP. The first 2020 R8 with a supercharger. First to tune the new RS6. First to tune the new RS5 (almost a full year before APR). Hell even top gear did a segment on the dual engine TT. When have we seen any other tuner on top gear? Hopefully when I get my ECU back it holds up to expectations.


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

GTiWizard said:


> What sold me on MTM was that when I looked them up on Google, (spelling out their name turned more results). I found videos on drive tribe about a twin engine first gen TT with 900HP. The first 2020 R8 with a supercharger. First to tune the new RS6. First to tune the new RS5 (almost a full year before APR). Hell even top gear did a segment on the dual engine TT. When have we seen any other tuner on top gear? Hopefully when I get my ECU back it holds up to expectations.


Yeah I've been talking with them. They have a piggy back for the Tiguan as well but its OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive for the gains. $1299 for 215hp and 265tq. They said it hooks up to the fuel rail and boost sensor as with any piggy back but also a few other sensors for timing. 

Debating waiting to hear from you on how you like it or just doing it.


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

I'm waiting for APR's dyno graphs and whether they'll offer their limited warranty with their tunes. This is the first vehicle that I have a factory foreseeable warranty on (mine's up to 120k miles) so having to ship the ECU in to tune it worries me. If Uni can be tuned (and uninstalled) from home, that'll probably be the deciding factor for me. But otherwise, APR is still my go-to. 

Moreover, I really want some dyno graphs of the stock tune vs tuners for comparison. I've looked but I haven't been able to find _any_ stock dyno graphs so we have no idea how much power the stock tune is putting to the wheels.


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

AkiraSieghart said:


> I'm waiting for APR's dyno graphs and whether they'll offer their limited warranty with their tunes. This is the first vehicle that I have a factory foreseeable warranty on (mine's up to 120k miles) so having to ship the ECU in to tune it worries me. If Uni can be tuned (and uninstalled) from home, that'll probably be the deciding factor for me. But otherwise, APR is still my go-to.
> 
> Moreover, I really want some dyno graphs of the stock tune vs tuners for comparison. I've looked but I haven't been able to find _any_ stock dyno graphs so we have no idea how much power the stock tune is putting to the wheels.




here the dyno results from Reflect Tuning on a 2017 Audi A4 Ultra with the Gen3B


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## 2019TiguanSELPRLINE (Nov 24, 2019)

This is why I’m gonna wait for the APR tune. Watch and be informed. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YtlBbPxlMU&feature=share


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

I guess people were not around during the early MKV days where you had to send in your ECU to all of the established reputable companies for them to open up the ECU for a special grounding technique to override security to get it initially flashed.

This included the usual suspects such as APR, Unitronic, etc. later they did figure out how to do it via OBD-II port.


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

i pulled the trigger on MTM..ECU is going out tomorrow. I'll obviously keep you guys updated


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

BsickPassat said:


> I guess people were not around during the early MKV days where you had to send in your ECU to all of the established reputable companies for them to open up the ECU for a special grounding technique to override security to get it initially flashed.
> 
> This included the usual suspects such as APR, Unitronic, etc. later they did figure out how to do it via OBD-II port.


I went through the same thing with my 1994 'Vette. It's OBDI and the ECU needed to be shipped to my tuner. Again, it's the combination between it may being weeks before your car is up and running properly since if there need to be revisions, the ECU needs to be shipped again and the fact that uninstalling the tune requires shipping _again_ if you need warranty work done. It's a huge hassle and if Uni can allow people to tune at home, I think they'll be the clear winners. Otherwise I'll go with APR so at least I can get their warranty if they offer it.


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## M Diddy (Sep 25, 2002)

BsickPassat said:


> I guess people were not around during the early MKV days where you had to send in your ECU to all of the established reputable companies for them to open up the ECU for a special grounding technique to override security to get it initially flashed.
> 
> This included the usual suspects such as APR, Unitronic, etc. later they did figure out how to do it via OBD-II port.


Or, you would drive to Waterfest in Enlightown, drop off your car with them, and have them chip it there. MUCH better way of doing it and MUCH more fun.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

M Diddy said:


> Or, you would drive to Waterfest in Enlightown, drop off your car with them, and have them chip it there. MUCH better way of doing it and MUCH more fun.


Back in the day, they would still have to crack the ECU open to do the initial flash, and I doubt their trailer is a clean room. Bricked ECU's were common back then, before APR figured out how to flash it via OBD-II.

I wouldn't call Waterfest fun, since it's usually blistering hot and humid.


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## M Diddy (Sep 25, 2002)

BsickPassat said:


> Back in the day, they would still have to crack the ECU open to do the initial flash, and I doubt their trailer is a clean room. Bricked ECU's were common back then, before APR figured out how to flash it via OBD-II.
> 
> I wouldn't call Waterfest fun, since it's usually blistering hot and humid.


I had two MK4's chipped there and know dozens of other that had it done as well. No issues at all.

And you gotta get under a tent. Was with the APTuning guys back then. We always had a blast.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

AkiraSieghart said:


> BsickPassat said:
> 
> 
> > I guess people were not around during the early MKV days where you had to send in your ECU to all of the established reputable companies for them to open up the ECU for a special grounding technique to override security to get it initially flashed.
> ...


I think at that point, I’d just buy a second ECU to keep stock, as a backup.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

M Diddy said:


> I had two MK4's chipped there and know dozens of other that had it done as well. No issues at all.
> 
> And you gotta get under a tent. Was with the APTuning guys back then. We always had a blast.


Chipped as in the real old school method of opening up the ECU and soldering in a flashable EPPROM?

ALso, waterfest is in Atco. My last Waterfest was 2018 (iirc still in Englishtown), when I had to get my Tig reflashed to get Stage 1 Plus 91 AKI, before moving to California.

And... SoCalEuro is a better gathering of European makes.


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

zimmie2652 said:


> I think at that point, I’d just buy a second ECU to keep stock, as a backup.


I was told you can't do that with these ECU's. That was exactly my plan too. O well.


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

AkiraSieghart said:


> I went through the same thing with my 1994 'Vette. It's OBDI and the ECU needed to be shipped to my tuner. Again, it's the combination between it may being weeks before your car is up and running properly since if there need to be revisions, the ECU needs to be shipped again and the fact that uninstalling the tune requires shipping _again_ if you need warranty work done. It's a huge hassle and if Uni can allow people to tune at home, I think they'll be the clear winners. Otherwise I'll go with APR so at least I can get their warranty if they offer it.


I had a 1994 Corvette too..that beautiful red with chrome ZR1 Wheels on 335/30/ZR19 DOT Drag Radials. ..Built 396 with an ATI Procharger P-1SC, Corsa Power Pulse Exhaust, Crane Fireball Ignition...can't even remember half the **** i did to that car lol.


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## Urano17 (Jul 7, 2018)

2019TiguanSELPRLINE said:


> This is why I’m gonna wait for the APR tune. Watch and be informed.
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YtlBbPxlMU&feature=share
> ...


We spent hard earn money on our vehicles. I feel if a company invests that much time and resources it’s a product I’m willing to wait for.


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

Hi guys!

Wanted to introduce my self. I work for MTM USA and we have noticed the interest on this forum specifically regarding out ECU tune for the Tiguan 4D (MQB).
First I want to thank the ones that have already ordered. 

Now I want to know if know if any of you have any questions that I can help answer. We are really excited for this product as we know that Tiguan owners are really passionate about their Tigs. 

Thanks 
Jose Cortez
COO of MTM USA LLC


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

Jose_MTM said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Wanted to introduce my self. I work for MTM USA and we have noticed the interest on this forum specifically regarding out ECU tune for the Tiguan 4D (MQB).
> First I want to thank the ones that have already ordered.
> ...


Do you have before and after dyno sheets for the Tiguan?


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## xd-data-ii (Feb 22, 2012)

Thank you Jose. 
Great to see you jumping in providing communication here. 

I would like to know are there any features for the tune? 
Like having an option of changing it to stock, 87 octane fuel tune and 91 octane tune. 
Any anti-theft features or security lockout features?
Is it just an upload of the new map with no additional features? 
What if we need to return the ECU back to stock (for servicing needs etc)? What is the process for that? 
Is there likely to be an at home flashing option in the near future?


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

AkiraSieghart said:


> Do you have before and after dyno sheets for the Tiguan?


Saw someone commented about this. Already asked my team in Germany to see if they can dig up the before for you guys. If so I'll post it here as soon as I get it.


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## Antagon3 (Feb 2, 2010)

Will this work with the FWD Audi A3? Uses the same b-cycle


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

xd-data-ii said:


> Thank you Jose.
> Great to see you jumping in providing communication here.
> 
> I would like to know are there any features for the tune?
> ...


1) So we are working on a separate map for Motorsound Rallye and stage 2. 
2) No map switching available at this time (uncertain if it will be possible with the MG1 ECU).
3) No security lockout features. 
4) Correct just a new map.
5) At the current moment you need to send us back the ECU. We are working to set up shops in the US so you can do it there. 
6) At he moment, we are testing this but seems like it will not be possible (hoping this changes).


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

Antagon3 said:


> Will this work with the FWD Audi A3? Uses the same b-cycle


Send us an email. We haven't written the press releases and information for the website, but it will work.


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

Jose_MTM said:


> 5) At the current moment you need to send us back the ECU. We are working to set up shops in the US so you can do it there.


#5 Is key if OBD Flash is not possible. We definitely need some local authorized shops to be able to bench flash these ECU's. I hope you will work with Excelerate Performance in Brandford, CT. https://excelerateperformance.com/

It's going to be a real pain for us to have to send the ECU back and forth long distances and really expensive too. I just spent $53 to ship my ECU to you guys. Now if i want a stage 2, i need to spend another $53 on shipping and another 4-5 days without a car. 

Anyways, Thanks for Spending some time and communicating with Jose.


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

AkiraSieghart said:


> Do you have before and after dyno sheets for the Tiguan?


You ask and you shall receive. 

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0056/3354/0209/files/Tiguan_180PS_Serie.pdf?v=1587644443


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

srivkin78 said:


> #5 Is key if OBD Flash is not possible. We definitely need some local authorized shops to be able to bench flash these ECU's. I hope you will work with Excelerate Performance in Brandford, CT. https://excelerateperformance.com/
> 
> It's going to be a real pain for us to have to send the ECU back and forth long distances and really expensive too. I just spent $53 to ship my ECU to you guys. Now if i want a stage 2, i need to spend another $53 on shipping and another 4-5 days without a car.
> 
> Anyways, Thanks for Spending some time and communicating with Jose.


We have actually worked with Excelerate before for a group buy of B7 RS4 Exhaust. We will reach out to them and see if we can get them set up with a flash tool soon. 
Thanks for the recommendation.


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

Jose_MTM said:


> We have actually worked with Excelerate before for a group buy of B7 RS4 Exhaust. We will reach out to them and see if we can get them set up with a flash tool soon.
> Thanks for the recommendation.


Thank you!


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

Jose_MTM said:


> You ask and you shall receive.
> 
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0056/3354/0209/files/Tiguan_180PS_Serie.pdf?v=1587644443



Jose can you make sense of this for us?

Base Horsepower:
Base Torque:

Tuned Horsepower:
Tuned Torque:


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

srivkin78 said:


> Jose can you make sense of this for us?
> 
> Base Horsepower:
> Base Torque:
> ...


This numbers are in PS and NM so I am going to convert them bellow for you.

Base HP: 205HP
Base TQ: 241TQ

(based on dyno graph on our website)
Tuned HP: 246HP
Tuned TQ: 281TQ

These tests were done in our climate controlled dyno room in Germany, which uses a Maha dyno. This is also our average gains minus a calculated % which we base on our experience with a particular engine. In other words we may be be underrating it a little because we know dyno results vary by dyno brand, location, conditions of the test.


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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

Jose_MTM said:


> This numbers are in PS and NM so I am going to convert them bellow for you.
> 
> Base HP: 205HP
> Base TQ: 241TQ
> ...


Are you sure this is correct? US tiguan is rated at 184hp/221lb tq stock... Some Dyno tests of the US model in stock form (before tuning) hasn’t even been able to break 180hp. Not to mention the US powertrain is completely different than the Tiguan in Germany. Unless they imported a North American tiguan there to tune? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

D3Audi said:


> Are you sure this is correct? US tiguan is rated at 184hp/221lb tq stock... Some Dyno tests of the US model in stock form (before tuning) hasn’t even been able to break 180hp. Not to mention the US powertrain is completely different than the Tiguan in Germany. Unless they imported a North American tiguan there to tune?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ditto. Doesn't sound like this applies to us. And 7.7s to 100kph stock claim on the website? More like mid 9s.


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

D3Audi said:


> Are you sure this is correct? US tiguan is rated at 184hp/221lb tq stock... Some Dyno tests of the US model in stock form (before tuning) hasn’t even been able to break 180hp. Not to mention the US powertrain is completely different than the Tiguan in Germany. Unless they imported a North American tiguan there to tune?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is multiple power trains for the Tiguan in Germany. However you are correct this powertrain isn't available on the Tiguan in Germany. Some European countries do offer this powertrain like the UK and France. So we got one from there and brought it over to Germany. We then verified our gains with a Dyno here on a US Spec Tiguan. 245HP and 280TQ is the figures we have found work for the US with our stage 1 tune.


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

socialD said:


> Ditto. Doesn't sound like this applies to us. And 7.7s to 100kph stock claim on the website? More like mid 9s.


This was done in a 4Motion Tiguan. Using 98 Ron (93AKI) fuel. A FWD will struggle to do this.


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

My ECU is on its way back to me and should be here tomorrow! Just in time for the weekend. 
Going to try and get some Draggy results although I'm not too hopeful as my car has AT and a lift kit (installed it while the car was down). Hopefully my butt dyno agrees and this car starts to finally move.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

D3Audi said:


> Are you sure this is correct? US tiguan is rated at 184hp/221lb tq stock... Some Dyno tests of the US model in stock form (before tuning) hasn’t even been able to break 180hp. Not to mention the US powertrain is completely different than the Tiguan in Germany. Unless they imported a North American tiguan there to tune?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where in the world have you found a stock dyno for one of these? Lol. 

I wouldn’t be surprised by those reported numbers truthfully though. VW regularly under reports figures. 

Mk7s were reading about 20hp higher across the range of dynos. 


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

Jose_MTM said:


> This was done in a 4Motion Tiguan. Using 98 Ron (93AKI) fuel. A FWD will struggle to do this.


The FWD is actually significantly faster than the AWD stock.

Car and driver posted a 8.2s for FWD.
https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/tiguan

and 9.1s for 4 Motion.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-volkswagen-tiguan-4motion-test-review

Best I've gotten on my 4motion is 9.3 measured via OBDFusion.


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

Well my ECU arrived at MTM around 12pm today and i already have a tracking number to get it back tomorrow. I guess its wait and see from here.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

socialD said:


> The FWD is actually significantly faster than the AWD stock.
> 
> Car and driver posted a 8.2s for FWD.
> https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/tiguan
> ...


Motortrend snapped off an 8.6 for a 4mo. 


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

srivkin78 said:


> Well my ECU arrived at MTM around 12pm today and i already have a tracking number to get it back tomorrow. I guess its wait and see from here.


scratch that....Saturday delivery


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

zimmie2652 said:


> Motortrend snapped off an 8.6 for a 4mo.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Probably the updated transmission software? Haven't had mine updated yet. But still, would expect the FWD to do better as well with less weight and drivetrain loss. Up until traction becomes an issue.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

socialD said:


> Probably the updated transmission software? Haven't had mine updated yet. But still, would expect the FWD to do better as well with less weight and drivetrain loss. Up until traction becomes an issue.


Maybe, I forget what year they had during the testing. The number just stood out to me. 


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

So I got my ECU yay!

Already took it for a quick drive around the block and car accelerates so much more effortlessly now. 
I also was planning on doing some dragy tests however the rain had other plans for me hopefully I can get some tests in before the end of the weekend if the rain ever stops :banghead:

I will say the tune feels OEM but more powerful. Very linear, very well sorted. My Stage 1 on my GTI doesn't feel as refined as this.


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

GTiWizard said:


> So I got my ECU yay!
> 
> Already took it for a quick drive around the block and car accelerates so much more effortlessly now.
> I also was planning on doing some dragy tests however the rain had other plans for me hopefully I can get some tests in before the end of the weekend if the rain ever stops :banghead:
> ...


Glad to hear you are enjoying it! Let us know once you get some dragy tests done.


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

GTiWizard said:


> So I got my ECU yay!
> 
> Already took it for a quick drive around the block and car accelerates so much more effortlessly now.
> I also was planning on doing some dragy tests however the rain had other plans for me hopefully I can get some tests in before the end of the weekend if the rain ever stops :banghead:
> ...


Thanks for the update. If you can, please take some acceleration tests and also keep an eye on the MPG you're getting compared to stock.


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

Jose_MTM said:


> Glad to hear you are enjoying it! Let us know once you get some dragy tests done.


One other question I have, Jose;

From what I understand, if you need to de-tune your ECU so you can take your Tiguan into VW for warranty work, it needs to be sent back to your shop, right? In the event that that happens and the customer wants to _re_-tune, what are the costs? Are we paying the original tuning price, are we discounted, or are we just paying shipping and handling?


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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

AkiraSieghart said:


> One other question I have, Jose;
> 
> From what I understand, if you need to de-tune your ECU so you can take your Tiguan into VW for warranty work, it needs to be sent back to your shop, right? In the event that that happens and the customer wants to _re_-tune, what are the costs? Are we paying the original tuning price, are we discounted, or are we just paying shipping and handling?


Once your vehicle is tuned the flash counter goes up which will trigger a TD1 flag in VW’s system. Unfortunately there’s no way around this if you tune, even if you flash it back to stock. 


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

D3Audi said:


> Once your vehicle is tuned the flash counter goes up which will trigger a TD1 flag in VW’s system. Unfortunately there’s no way around this if you tune, even if you flash it back to stock.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are some tunes out there that reset the flash counter. 

Now for the Tig, i dont know. ED, APR and Uni all reset the flash counter for MK7s though. 

You are right though, if VW wants to know you’re tuned, they’ll find out. 


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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

zimmie2652 said:


> There are some tunes out there that reset the flash counter.
> 
> Now for the Tig, i dont know. ED, APR and Uni all reset the flash counter for MK7s though.
> 
> ...


Yep. This video kinda explains it well. https://youtu.be/tzlwDedI2QM


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

AkiraSieghart said:


> One other question I have, Jose;
> 
> From what I understand, if you need to de-tune your ECU so you can take your Tiguan into VW for warranty work, it needs to be sent back to your shop, right? In the event that that happens and the customer wants to _re_-tune, what are the costs? Are we paying the original tuning price, are we discounted, or are we just paying shipping and handling?


You can ship it back to us and just pay shipping expenses. We will flash it to stock and tuned however many times you need. Just email [email protected] with your original order and we will handle it from there.

However flashing to stock is no longer a guaranteed method of preventing TD1. The dealer computer are getting smarter and so are the ECUs, they can always find a trace no matter what you do. I suggest you forge a strong relationship with your dealers service department this can go a long way in preventing a TD1. The dealer does not want to make an enemy out of a customer so keep that in mind.


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

zimmie2652 said:


> There are some tunes out there that reset the flash counter.
> 
> Now for the Tig, i dont know. ED, APR and Uni all reset the flash counter for MK7s though.
> 
> ...


We reset flash counter on MK7s as well. However its no guarantee we have seen cases on the Audi side where they still find out.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Jose_MTM said:


> You can ship it back to us and just pay shipping expenses. We will flash it to stock and tuned however many times you need. Just email [email protected] with your original order and we will handle it from there.
> 
> However flashing to stock is no longer a guaranteed method of preventing TD1. The dealer computer are getting smarter and so are the ECUs, they can always find a trace no matter what you do. I suggest you forge a strong relationship with your dealers service department this can go a long way in preventing a TD1. The dealer does not want to make an enemy out of a customer so keep that in mind.


Not to take business away, buy if you fear the TD1 flag, don't mod. TD1 is meant to keep people honest , after the years of VW and Audi covering repairs they should have due to previous customers that abuses the system

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

So did some Dragy tests. Im impressed with the results. 
So let me paint the full picture and why I am going do a couple more in a few days once the rain stops. 

My car 2019 SE R Line tiguan. Forge lift kit, All-terain tires. I never expected my car to yield the best results since its FWD. So my dragy results prior to the tune was a 9.07 0-60
Today in less than desirable conditions with the ground still wet from the rain I did an 8.1. 

So here now I ask you guys a question. How do you disable traction control? Now my Tig is not hooking at all and I can't figure out how to do a run without TC intervening. 
I think a 7 second is very achievable just need traction now. If the weather clears up in the next few days and I can figure out the traction control I will post up my times then. 

On my personal opinion of the investment. 100% worth it. Good job MTM.


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

GTiWizard said:


> So did some Dragy tests. Im impressed with the results.
> So let me paint the full picture and why I am going do a couple more in a few days once the rain stops.
> 
> My car 2019 SE R Line tiguan. Forge lift kit, All-terain tires. I never expected my car to yield the best results since its FWD. So my dragy results prior to the tune was a 9.07 0-60
> ...


Happy to hear you are pleased with the results. Please keep us informed on your acceleration times.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Pull the fuse for it is one option. 

Can also turn off ESC control as well, I think it needs to be setup with OBD11 or VCDS to enable switching off in the infotainment. 


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## loopless (Oct 4, 2007)

AkiraSieghart said:


> One other question I have, Jose;
> 
> From what I understand, if you need to de-tune your ECU so you can take your Tiguan into VW for warranty work, it needs to be sent back to your shop, right? In the event that that happens and the customer wants to _re_-tune, what are the costs? Are we paying the original tuning price, are we discounted, or are we just paying shipping and handling?


If you are worried about that, wait for APR to offer APR+ for the Tiguan. They will warranty the powertrain with their own warranty up to the expiration of your factory warranty. And the warranty is transferable. 

Given that the ECU has to be shipped back and forth, APR+ starts to look like a pretty good option. But of course it is still 'coming'.


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

GTiWizard said:


> So did some Dragy tests. Im impressed with the results.
> So let me paint the full picture and why I am going do a couple more in a few days once the rain stops.
> 
> My car 2019 SE R Line tiguan. Forge lift kit, All-terain tires. I never expected my car to yield the best results since its FWD. So my dragy results prior to the tune was a 9.07 0-60
> ...


Nice man....thats pretty solid...i really want Dragy but its just not worth using it once to test out the Tiguan . I might try an app like Drag Racer or Race Timer


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

GTiWizard said:


> So did some Dragy tests. Im impressed with the results.
> So let me paint the full picture and why I am going do a couple more in a few days once the rain stops.
> 
> My car 2019 SE R Line tiguan. Forge lift kit, All-terain tires. I never expected my car to yield the best results since its FWD. So my dragy results prior to the tune was a 9.07 0-60
> ...


It's the AT tires not the traction control that is preventing the power getting to the ground. They are not designed and made with street launches in mind.

With better tires, whether it's a summer tire or a Ultra High Performance All-season like a Conti DWS 06 or Michelin Pilot A/S3, you'll get better traction to apply the power, with less traction control intervening (because you're not spinning a tire on a open differential)


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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

loopless said:


> If you are worried about that, wait for APR to offer APR+ for the Tiguan. They will warranty the powertrain with their own warranty up to the expiration of your factory warranty. And the warranty is transferable.
> 
> Given that the ECU has to be shipped back and forth, APR+ starts to look like a pretty good option. But of course it is still 'coming'.


APR Plus is a third party warranty. Not a VW warranty. Read the fine print on it. So you’re still forfeiting your factory warranty but it gets replaced by a third party warranty. Not everything is covered either. 


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

D3Audi said:


> APR Plus is a third party warranty. Not a VW warranty. Read the fine print on it. So you’re still forfeiting your factory warranty but it gets replaced by a third party warranty. Not everything is covered either.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I really feel APR+ is a bit of a sham and a misleading upsell tactic on their end. 


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

zimmie2652 said:


> I really feel APR+ is a bit of a sham and a misleading upsell tactic on their end.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They are pretty straight forward on their website and they  provide a summary of the 3rd part warranty terms and conditions. 

Blame the idiots that spread fake news about the warranty, do falsely believe that it does not void the VW warranty and spread this fake news.

If you want to save money and not get APR Plus and their 3rd party warranty, you can. If you have aspirations for going above Stage 1 program, then APR Plus is not for you, as installing a downpipe, even a APR downpipe will cause the warranty to deny the claim, if you plan on someone else's intake parts... APR Plus is not for you.



APR Plus said:


> H. If Your Vehicle has had any unauthorized modifications or alterations. * Unauthorized modifications include exhaust downpipes, race DPs, upgraded turbochargers and any non-APR powertrain modifications*. Drivetrain modifications such as wheels, suspension and brakes are authorized for use with APR Plus.


Also, they tell you:


APR Plus warranty said:


> Your Responsibilities
> Have Your Vehicle checked and serviced in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations, as outlined in the Owner’s Manual except for engine oil changes. At the increased power level of APR Plus, APR recommends changing your vehicle’s engine oil every six months or 5,000 miles, whichever comes first, to ensure the long term integrity of the engine.


As long as you provide evidence that you're changing the oil to APR's terms (not VW's), you should be fine.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

I know what it says and have read it a thousand times. 

I just think it’s very shady. 

Especially with some of the horror stories out there. 

Such as APR/dealerships fighting back and forth for months over who will cover something and in the end people being without a car for weeks or months on end. APR flat out refusing coverage on things listed as covered and many other situations. 


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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

zimmie2652 said:


> I really feel APR+ is a bit of a sham and a misleading upsell tactic on their end.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree. Not many people are aware it’s a third party warranty. Not that it matters that much because it’s a warranty nonetheless. But when it’s discussed on forums everyone is like “you get to keep your warranty”... it’s a big misunderstanding Not every dealer is on board with the idea. If you have an APR friendly or APR dealer you’ll probably never have an issue. But if your dealer is not APR literate when it comes time to make a warranty claim they could give you a hard time. Or if you’re traveling and something happens and you end up at some random VW dealer. 

But regardless there’s a warranty so I guess that’s a plus (literally). It’s just not the same as factory.


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## loopless (Oct 4, 2007)

zimmie2652 said:


> I know what it says and have read it a thousand times.
> 
> I just think it’s very shady.
> 
> ...


Really, want to provide some evidence of that?

It’s a third party warranty that covers the powertrain. APR is not being deceptive in any way and make very clear what is covered and what is not and your responsibilities to maintain your warranty. I did my research before buying APR+ and found no evidence of APR trying to weasel out of honoring APR+. 
Stg 1 Tune with someone else , blow your turbo, and you are basically screwed .... APR+ is basically an insurance policy. I have been there and had a $2000 repair bill after being denied coverage by VW due to being flagged TD1 some years ago on my MK6.
It’s really weird all this hate on APR , it’s up to the customer to decide if APR+ is right for them.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

loopless said:


> Really, want to provide some evidence of that?
> 
> It’s a third party warranty that covers the powertrain. APR is not being deceptive in any way and make very clear what is covered and what is not and your responsibilities to maintain your warranty. I did my research before buying APR+ and found no evidence of APR trying to weasel out of honoring APR+.
> Stg 1 Tune with someone else , blow your turbo, and you are basically screwed .... APR+ is basically an insurance policy. I have been there and had a $2000 repair bill after being denied coverage by VW due to being flagged TD1 some years ago on my MK6.
> It’s really weird all this hate on APR , it’s up to the customer to decide if APR+ is right for them.


It’s not APR hate at all. It’s personal opinion and experience I’ve seen and been a part of at a local dealership. 

Stasis was known for this warranties tune game also in Audi land. Granted they are now defunct and not an industry leader like APR. 

Here’s a quote from the mk7 boards pinpointing exactly what I described. Finger pointing, pissing contest between APR/dealer/service shop.

“It's kind of what i would worry happening. VW dealership said part isn't covered because of tune, APR+ said part should be covered by dealership.. I was just left in the middle paying the same expense i would have anyways with a normal S1/S2 tune.
You really only find out how good a warranty/insurance plan is when you have to make a claim, i haven't seen any other reviews of APR+ where people have had to make claims so i won't judge them yet, just cautiously pessimistic.”

The fact they can also deny coverage for not doing a 5k oil change or anything they deem to not be proper maintenance is a massive loophole for them. From what I’ve seen they also charge an undisclosed deductible for every repair. I’d also like to know who the warranty is through, which APR never disclosed in their paperwork?!?!?! What happens if that company goes under?!?!?! 

From what I’ve seen and heard locally and on forums, I’d prefer to get a full fledge tune and be able to do what I want to the vehicle and not be strictly tied down to APR parts and not being able t advance past stage1 tunes. 

Anyways, this thread is about MTM, let’s keep the focus there. 


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

Ok so i got my ECU back at 8:15PM last night but i had a problem not of MTM's fault. My car still had a bit more than a half tank of 87 OCT in it, so, when I reinstalled my ECU I had a check engine light on. I emailed MTM immediately for help who in turn emailed me right back late into the night and even provided me with contact info to stay in touch even later if needed(THANK YOU MTM). 

I ended up driving the car 100 or so miles very gently to reduce the 87 OCT that was in the tank and then proceeded to add 9.2 gallons of 93 OCT late last night. So i had roughly about 6.7 gallons of 87 OCT still. I drove home and the check engine light was still on. This morning i went on another light drive and then added another 2.2 gallons of 93 OCT to the tank and and drove home and the check engine light was still on. At this point i should have easily have had 91OCT with about 11.5 gallons of 93 and 4.5 gallons of 87 OCT according to http://wallaceracing.com/octane-mix-calc.php. 

I had to go to work(at home) at this point and at lunch decided i needed to buy a basic scanner to get the chk engine code for MTM so they could DX the check engine light(MTM already thought it was the gas causing the code). Went to start my car about an hour ago and BAM, check engine light was gone. Computers probably finally recognized the higher octane mixture. 

ANYWHOOOOOOOO....I haven't had a chance to really get on the throttle. I really want to wait util i flush out all the 87 OCT and Im running full 93 OCT. however i did give it one 0-60 test with Race Timer app in Google Play. Take it for what it is as i have no idea how accurate this app is. Ignore the Quarter Mile time i didn't keep going after 60MPH


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

It would be helpful if someone with a Stock 4motion wants to run a 0-60 with the same app just to get an idea. Anyone up for it?


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

srivkin78 said:


> Ok so i got my ECU back at 8:15PM last night but i had a problem not of MTM's fault. My car still had a bit more than a half tank of 87 OCT in it, so, when I reinstalled my ECU I had a check engine light on. I emailed MTM immediately for help who in turn emailed me right back late into the night and even provided me with contact info to stay in touch even later if needed(THANK YOU MTM).
> 
> I ended up driving the car 100 or so miles very gently to reduce the 87 OCT that was in the tank and then proceeded to add 9.2 gallons of 93 OCT late last night. So i had roughly about 6.7 gallons of 87 OCT still. I drove home and the check engine light was still on. This morning i went on another light drive and then added another 2.2 gallons of 93 OCT to the tank and and drove home and the check engine light was still on. At this point i should have easily have had 91OCT with about 11.5 gallons of 93 and 4.5 gallons of 87 OCT according to http://wallaceracing.com/octane-mix-calc.php.
> 
> ...


Glad we were able to help you last night and make sure you were all good. 
Hope you continue to enjoy your Tiguan and explore its newly added power.


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

So update on my Tiguan. 

Finally was able to do a 0-60 run in the dry with dragy. I got it down to 7.8 on FWD Tiguan with the lift kit and AT tires. Not the best bench mark, but very good given my car isn't the best suited for this. TC came on during the start in this run. 

Also driven the car around town a little more and the power difference is noticeable. Car finally gets out of its own way. No issues so far which is always a plus. 
Thank you MTM for finally making the Tiguan what should have been from the factory.


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

GTiWizard said:


> So update on my Tiguan.
> 
> Finally was able to do a 0-60 run in the dry with dragy. I got it down to 7.8 on FWD Tiguan with the lift kit and AT tires. Not the best bench mark, but very good given my car isn't the best suited for this. TC came on during the start in this run.
> 
> ...


Happy to hear you are satisfied with our tune. Hope you enjoy many more miles on your Tiguan and our software :heart:


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

GTiWizard said:


> So update on my Tiguan.
> 
> Finally was able to do a 0-60 run in the dry with dragy. I got it down to 7.8 on FWD Tiguan with the lift kit and AT tires. Not the best bench mark, but very good given my car isn't the best suited for this. TC came on during the start in this run.
> 
> ...


Any interest in doing another 0-60 using the Race Timer App? Curious to see the discrepancies between the two Apps. I was using the app on a Samsung Galaxy S9+


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

srivkin78 said:


> Any interest in doing another 0-60 using the Race Timer App? Curious to see the discrepancies between the two Apps. I was using the app on a Samsung Galaxy S9+


I'll download the app and see if I can give it a try tomorrow.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

srivkin78 said:


> Any interest in doing another 0-60 using the Race Timer App? Curious to see the discrepancies between the two Apps. I was using the app on a Samsung Galaxy S9+


I just downloaded myself as well. Stock for now. 

Hopefully get some time tonight or tomorrow to do a compare. I’m an IOS guy though, will be interesting to see a cross platform comparison. Through my work we’ve found Android tends to be a good bit more accurate when it comes to GPS usage/implementation. 

Were you just in normal drive? Sport? Etc. 

Like for like settings would be nice and also before I get my dog bone mount installed. 


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

zimmie2652 said:


> I just downloaded myself as well. Stock for now.
> 
> Hopefully get some time tonight or tomorrow to do a compare.
> 
> ...


sports modes


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

srivkin78 said:


> sports modes


Word


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

So I tried Race timer App. I got a 11.2 the first time, so I relocated for better signal and with full bars I got a 7.7 which seems in line with the 7.8 from dragy. 
I was using an iPhone in case that matter. I do suggest make you sure you have full bars because that seems to impact it a lot.


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

GTiWizard said:


> So I tried Race timer App. I got a 11.2 the first time, so I relocated for better signal and with full bars I got a 7.7 which seems in line with the 7.8 from dragy.
> I was using an iPhone in case that matter. I do suggest make you sure you have full bars because that seems to impact it a lot.


Interesting, i was not expecting the numbers to be that close considering the usual 1HZ GPS in the phone vs 10HZ GPS for Dragy


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

srivkin78 said:


> Interesting, i was not expecting the numbers to be that close considering the usual 1HZ GPS in the phone vs 10HZ GPS for Dragy


I was surprised too, specially considering I paid for the dragy.


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

Wanted to thank you all for the replies, and the questions. Helps us make sure that we disclose more information going forward. 
To the clients of ours that are here, a special thanks go to you for trusting us.


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## GTiWizard (Mar 22, 2018)

So I'm loving the tune. But now I got the bug and so did my boss.
So Jose do you have any update for us on Stage 2?


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

GTiWizard said:


> So I'm loving the tune. But now I got the bug and so did my boss.
> So Jose do you have any update for us on Stage 2?


In testing. Coming soon. 
Would you guys want to see an option for our "Motorsound Rallye" on this platform?


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Jose_MTM said:


> GTiWizard said:
> 
> 
> > So I'm loving the tune. But now I got the bug and so did my boss.
> ...


I think that’d be kinda cool but not totally necessary in my opinion. Be interesting to see other’s thoughts.


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

Jose_MTM said:


> In testing. Coming soon.
> Would you guys want to see an option for our "Motorsound Rallye" on this platform?


no interest in that feature, but definitely interested in stage 2. I really haven't driven my car much at all since the tune with this lock down in place, a couple of miles here and there but that's all. I plan on getting some dyno pulls to test out what Stage 1 has made for power so there is some sort of baseline of the MTM Stage 1 tune but right now all the Dyno's around me are still closed.


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

srivkin78 said:


> no interest in that feature, but definitely interested in stage 2. I really haven't driven my car much at all since the tune with this lock down in place, a couple of miles here and there but that's all. I plan on getting some dyno pulls to test out what Stage 1 has made for power so there is some sort of baseline of the MTM Stage 1 tune but right now all the Dyno's around me are still closed.


We have Stage 2 basically ready. Just waiting to validate results with a second car.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Jose_MTM said:


> We have Stage 2 basically ready. Just waiting to validate results with a second car.


I would assume a DP is a requirement for stage2, like all the others? 


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

zimmie2652 said:


> I would assume a DP is a requirement for stage2, like all the others?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes downpipe will be required. Intake highly recommended.


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## Jmarks124 (Apr 28, 2020)

Jose what’s ETA for stage 2? I’d rather get it done once and wait for stage 2. Thanks.


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

Jmarks124 said:


> Jose what’s ETA for stage 2? I’d rather get it done once and wait for stage 2. Thanks.


Sorry for the delayed reply. 
Let me check with the development team tomorrow.


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