# Opinions on NON Turbo 2.5L tunes..



## [a]bek. (Jul 21, 2012)

I have a 2012 Jetta SE with a 2.5L. Wanting to get a tune, I see C2, UM, Unitronic do tunes. Give me opinions on experiences on what you guys had with your tunes. Thanks and really appreciated.


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## mr. history (Sep 28, 2012)

There was a thread about the c2 tune a while back. I will be going with that next year at waterfest. I would prefer not to send my ecu in the mail. Both tunes have very similar numbers.


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## [a]bek. (Jul 21, 2012)

I have dealers locally to me, so I can just drive over. But I'm looking for opinions of what people thought about their tunes.


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## f5racing (Sep 9, 2012)

I'm currently running a C2 tune, and I am fairly happy with it. It took a few tries for them to get it right, but once there it works well enough. I have another tune waiting for when my SRI gets here, hopefully it won't take fall on its face like the first ones did. I would say 6/10 overall satisfaction...


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## [a]bek. (Jul 21, 2012)

f5racing said:


> I'm currently running a C2 tune, and I am fairly happy with it. It took a few tries for them to get it right, but once there it works well enough. I have another tune waiting for when my SRI gets here, hopefully it won't take fall on its face like the first ones did. I would say 6/10 overall satisfaction...


I've seen more people be dissatisfied with C2 or not as happy.. But, I might be wrong, just don't see much mentioned about UM. But, they could alternatively be the same.


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## f5racing (Sep 9, 2012)

[a]bek. said:


> I've seen more people be dissatisfied with C2 or not as happy.. But, I might be wrong, just don't see much mentioned about UM. But, they could alternatively be the same.


I can't say that I am totally dissatisfied, but let's just say that I won't be running around bragging about who did my tune.

I still have another try with the new tune, and I am curious to see how if it works first time out.

As for UM, I have never personally used their tune but everyone that I have talked to who has says that they are wonderful. If my new software isn't up to par, I will me going that direction myself.


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## SocoJoe (Jul 4, 2009)

Most of us UM tuned guys have been having to much fun at h2o, but go UM

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4


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## [a]bek. (Jul 21, 2012)

SocoJoe said:


> Most of us UM tuned guys have been having to much fun at h2o, but go UM
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4


That was what I was going to end up getting.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

UM is pretty amazing and so far seems to have planned ahead and avoided a lot of otherwise issues.


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## poonpower (Jun 6, 2012)

I personally have he unitronics tune, only because they are the only local tuner available to me. Honestly I cant tell the difference. Its smooth and there are no problems whatsoever, but for $300 it wasnt worth the price at all IMO. 

Not bashing the tune or anything, but im sure theres better money to be spent.


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

Honestly, if you are not going with an intake manifold just stay away from any tune. It really does not do anything without that one supporting mod.

I have driven my rabbit un-tuned vs. a chipped Unitronic and APR 2.5 and killed them in a vs. on the track. It's all up to how the driver is when there is a 10-15hp difference. $300 is not worth it if that is all you are looking to get.

The better $300 well spent would be for a cold air intake. I LOVED my carbonio before I went turbo, sounded amazing and I did get better fuel mileage (after i stopped getting on her for the sound lol)

Just putting a few cents in from someone that has been in your position. It's too bad you cannot take advantage of the SRI kit from Integrated as that would be a "no-brainer".


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## kurtsayin (Mar 16, 2013)

I've been researching this for a couple of months. Without an SRI, any tune is negligible. With SRI or turbo, the consensus seems to be that United Motorsport's tuning is the only real game in town if you want to be completely satisfied.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

we have seen great results with the OEM fitment C2 manifold and tune. seeing great hp AND torque gains with this setup NA. torque is what moves the car, hp is what you brag about to your friends :laugh: jk.
we have install many different SRI(not inegrateds yet) and C2's is the best fitment and install. no other parts needed or mods to make it fit.


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

f5racing said:


> I'm currently running a C2 tune, and I am fairly happy with it. It took a few tries for them to get it right, but once there it works well enough. I have another tune waiting for when my SRI gets here, hopefully it won't take fall on its face like the first ones did. I would say 6/10 overall satisfaction...


Email me when you get everything going with SRI and tune. I love hearing constructive criticism, without it we would never be able to improve our products.



[a]bek. said:


> I've seen more people be dissatisfied with C2 or not as happy.. But, I might be wrong, just don't see much mentioned about UM. But, they could alternatively be the same.


We have plenty of very happy customers! 



nothing-leaves-stock said:


> we have seen great results with the OEM fitment C2 manifold and tune. seeing great hp AND torque gains with this setup NA. torque is what moves the car, hp is what you brag about to your friends :laugh: jk.
> we have install many different SRI(not inegrateds yet) and C2's is the best fitment and install. no other parts needed or mods to make it fit.


Thanks Josh! :thumbup:


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## f5racing (Sep 9, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Email me when you get everything going with SRI and tune. I love hearing constructive criticism, without it we would never be able to improve our products.


Jason, email sent.


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

GTACanuck said:


> Honestly, if you are not going with an intake manifold just stay away from any tune. It really does not do anything without that one supporting mod.
> 
> I have driven my rabbit un-tuned vs. a chipped Unitronic and APR 2.5 and killed them in a vs. on the track. It's all up to how the driver is when there is a 10-15hp difference. $300 is not worth it if that is all you are looking to get.
> 
> ...



I agree with this. A friend of mine has a 2.5 jetta with CAI and UM tune, and I honestly couldn't tell any difference from stock on the butt dyno. Intake manifold or bust.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

flash only... you CAN feel the difference with C2motorsports. it gains a bit of power and torque but the huge difference is the higher redline that it now pulls to instead of falling on its face at 4500-5000. rev hang is TOTALLY gone. the drivability is a great difference. I had it on the 3 2.5L I've owned plus flashed a bunch. adding the SRI and SRI tune...great gains!


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## kurtsayin (Mar 16, 2013)

Looking forward to feeling this myself. I should say I was going to buy the C2 SRI and C2ner package until a buddy of mine decided to part out his Rabbit. I'm getting his Eurojet SRI for a deal so now I'm researching tunes. UM and C2 are the ones to look at, but I don't see any C2 dealers in Chicagoland, and in all of my searching, I have not heard one negative thing about United Motorsport.

What's a guy to do?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

contact C2 directly and they can help you out or tell you a near by dealer 502.895.3660


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

Pick the tune you want and then figure out how to get that tune. UM has a flash loader laptop that they will let you borrow. I'm not sure if C2 has a way to remotely flash a car, like if they would send you a C2ner for a couple days or if they would force you to buy one (I suspect the latter). But I think the #1 thing is to decide which tune you want. My preference is UM, but I have not driven a 2.5l with C2 tuning.


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

kurtsayin said:


> ...but I don't see any C2 dealers in Chicagoland, and in all of my searching...


On our site you can find that there is one about 45 minutes North of Chicago. It is South of Wisconsin. :thumbup:


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

my opinion is to go with UM and their loaner cable. Most people including myself are happy with UM (the only tuning company to truly master the 2.5l tunes). You wont find much customers in the 2.5l section who complain about UM, but do a quick forum search of C2 and see for yourself if thats what you want to deal with.


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## kurtsayin (Mar 16, 2013)

With all due respect to C2 who has done tons of great stuff for VW for years, 'tex.com is full of complaints on C2's 2.5 software, and that makes me nervous... I don't WANT to be nervous, but I also don't want to have buyer's remorse if I decide to go to C2 over UM.

I'm getting my manifold, valve cover and fuel rail powder-coated before installation, so I have about two weeks to make my final decision. Mine is an '08 Jetta so I won't have any of the '09+ goofiness if that's worth anything to the people "in the know" around here.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

UM and done. You can get less elsewhere or just get it all the first time. Go UM

UM will probably have launch control and other cool stuff too in future. They did a good job with that on other platforms.


c2 is also awesome. I think they've proven by this point that if you have a problem they will fix it asap. Ive witnessed nothing less anyway.


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## Golf_Gr (Mar 30, 2009)

C2 tuned for 2.5 years and no complaints. They got it right the first time and it definitely made a difference on they way the car pulls.


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## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

Been C2 tuned for more than 6 years now and have been happy. Only issue I had was when I added the SRI my car acted like a little bitch and kept throwing a stupid code but eventually worked its self out.

My buddy had a c2 tune for 5 year and just recently switched to UM. Why? We have a local UM dealer close to us and he needed a new tune because his header/test pipe setup was throwing a code. Couldn't afford to be with out the car or purchase C2 tuner so went to the local dealer. His thoughts? Maybe a slight bump in power/smoothness and you could chalk that up to the version of c2 he had was a little after it was first released and likely isn't as refined as it is now.


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## rojahrabbit808 (Aug 6, 2013)

So many mixed reviews. I got a 07 rabbit 150hp version and was looking to have it tuned aka chipped bit jist not sure what route to go.

Apr
C2
UNI etc

Any dyno charts and customer service reviews etc?

I got a short ram intake and exhaust so far which cane with my car. Any advice?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

tested out C2step program today on my 2007 rabbit 

[video]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151877851542906&set=vb.230731627905&type=2&theater[/video]


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## rojahrabbit808 (Aug 6, 2013)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> tested out C2step program today on my 2007 rabbit
> 
> [video]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151877851542906&set=vb.230731627905&type=2&theater[/video]


Bad ass. Is your car stick or automatic and is it boosted or na?


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

The main benefit of a NA tune is just in the drive by wire. I always get in trouble for saying this but bumping idle by 100 rpm and deleting a cel is all it really does. 

Putting 93 octane versus 87 into a stock 2.5 nets about the same gains as they claim  the tune gives... makes sense.

When you start reving to 8k the NA tunes will matter. Too bad there's no stage 3 NA tune yet including a 100 shot  

where's the damn cams guys sheesh


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## rojahrabbit808 (Aug 6, 2013)

tchilds said:


> The main benefit of a NA tune is just in the drive by wire. I always get in trouble for saying this but bumping idle by 100 rpm and deleting a cel is all it really does.
> 
> Putting 93 octane versus 87 into a stock 2.5 nets about the same gains as they claim


So for the most part are you saying there really isn't any performance benefits from getting a tune?

Im new to the world of vw's. My world use to be forced induction Hondas anf self tuning with a wideband and laptop on a custom chipped ecu. I don't know enough about vw's to say anything really. I picked it up because of tje fact that inwas driving a v8 work van every where and needed a more economical vehicle for errands etc but now im getting the big to modify.

Ive got intake and exhaust right now and was looking for something to add a little more pep. I mean you can spend $300 on a cold air intake or you can chip your ecu. I would imagine you would get less gains from the intake. In a perfect world I would love to turbo my car but kits are stupid expensoive for these cars.

200 trq would be perfect in these cars since they are small and light.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

I get in trouble for saying it but yeh. You get up to 20hp on a PERFECT day at 0 elevation from running 93 versus 87 on the 09+ motors. Its been confirmed in a few places, noted by tuners, as well as witness by myself on a mustang dyno day for $50 that I couldn't resist testing the theory on at 600 ft elevation.

They smooth the power curve out but so does 93 on a perfect day... anyway...

What you notice and feel is rev hang removed, throttle lag reduced (high lag from factory to ensure you don't rear end someone by accident or wear out the clutch/driveline etc prematurely), so on and so forth. The power is more linear so over time you gain but its not a night and day difference like a turbo car.

You're unlocking the potential of the stock computer. Its a pretty good one too, but not like upgrading to stand alone to run crazy NA mods over 8k rpm.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

my car is NA, manual, intake and cat back in that video with C2step

the NA tune will gain some power, lose rev hang, raise redline, lower idle, rev faster. its a huge drivability change with a bit of power gain.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

In the future there may be options like hill brake assist, launch control, 2 step, ignition cut, etc available who knows though. Just depends what computer you end up with in the VW lottery and who ponies up the cash at the right time to unlock it. I have no clue btw what options are out there lol just throwing out some stuff I've seen in past.

There's a lot more to it than just unlocking options but I like to make it way too simple for my computer illiterate self. They do a TON of other stuff that is beyond me.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

In the end you just gotta email or call them and ask what options they got for you then decide who meets your needs the best.


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## rojahrabbit808 (Aug 6, 2013)

tchilds said:


> The main benefit of a NA tune is just in the drive by wire. I always get in trouble for saying this but bumping idle by 100 rpm and deleting a cel is all it really does.
> 
> Putting 93 octane versus 87 into a stock 2.5 nets about the same gains as they claim


So for the most part are you saying there really isn't any performance benefits from getting a tune?

Im new to the world of vw's. My world use to be forced induction Hondas anf self tuning with a wideband and laptop on a custom chipped ecu. I don't know enough about vw's to say anything really. I picked it up because of tje fact that inwas driving a v8 work van every where and needed a more economical vehicle for errands etc but now im getting the big to modify.

Ive got intake and exhaust right now and was looking for something to add a little more pep. I mean you can spend $300 on a cold air intake or you can chip your ecu. I would imagine you would get less gains from the intake. In a perfect world I would love to turbo my car but kits are stupid expensoive for these cars.

200 trq would be perfect in these cars since they are small and light.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

There's tons of benefits. There's a lot more to a car than just a line on a graph. 

One of my important requirements was the annoying cel from my cat delete. I wanted it gone. Some tuners offered different solutions than others. Your results may vary.

You can't argue that an NA tune isn't worth it. Its just not a huge power gain at all and maybe not at all period in some cases :banghead:


A chipped/flashed car will outrun and outdrive a CAI  Exhaust makes noise that's about it for now. Its also garunteed for life and much higher quality than stock in some cases 


FYI pretty much everyone gets power from chip, intake, and exhaust its just not what they think :laugh:


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## rojahrabbit808 (Aug 6, 2013)

tchilds said:


> There's tons of benefits. There's a lot more to a car than just a line on a graph.
> 
> One of my important requirements was the annoying cel from my cat delete. I wanted it gone. Some tuners offered different solutions than others. Your results may vary.
> 
> ...


This all got me thinking lol. We shall see what happens. There is a intake and sri manifokd combo for sale with software that claims up to 48hp for like $1300. Heck maybe I'll sell the car and start over lol


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

rojahrabbit808 said:


> This all got me thinking lol. We shall see what happens. There is a intake and sri manifokd combo for sale with software that claims up to 48hp for like $1300. Heck maybe I'll sell the car and start over lol


Yep. The 2.5 with SRI from HEP is what I'm running now. I have a strong running 2.5 09+ that runs door to door with my buddies stage 2 ss/sc otherwise stock. I still run stock exhaust except for cat delete.

The srt4 and gti kill me though with their stage 2 setups. Srt4 runs stupid fast for having no power its annoying getting smashed by tacky car... going turbo haha


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