# Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

I know there is already a Maestro thread as posted by [email protected] (Arnold) but that is 15pgs. worth of announcements, information, and armchair racing (not in that order), so I would like to have a dedicated user thread for specific information on self-flashing, tuning, logging, and other Eurodyne/Maestro experiences. Please post up anything that would help other Maestro users with their set-up (*cough* settings/hardware). 
I am speaking as the owner of a 2003 BEA 225TT, which means ko4-022/3, VVT, and wideband o2 stock with 72k; I have a turboback, TIP, and Eurodyne Stg.1 flashtune (Tapp file necessary for any of this to work, obviously). All the specific info I included (the graphs/info shots) were from a full-throttle pull after shifting into third gear; it was about 50% humidity and 55°F.
The steps to being tuned:
- Get the Powertap unit and cord out of the box (smaller that I thought, not a bad thing); you must have it plugged in to use either the Maestro or Flash programs; the dongle is actually two pieces, it uses a proprietary printer USB cable to connect the cable to your computer. You have to install the driver file before you install any other software. You will also probably have to do a Windows update, that killed 45 mins. on my end
















- You then e-mail Chris, and get your UN/PW
- Sign into Eurodyne to download the necessary software (which includes the Powertap driver). You have to download three programs, as each does a different thing:
1. Maestro 7 – tuning suite, allows adjustment of all tune settings with 3D maps (adjustment through numerical settings, maps non-adjustable as of 10.19.2009)
--- Diagnostics (readiness)
--- Boost
--- Fuel
--- Spark
--- calculator








2. Eurodyne Flash – actual flashing program (first picture below)
--- Read + Write the ECU, get ECU info
--- “Log Data” takes you to a separate data logging screen, displays real-time data on many parameters (second picture below)
--- “Read settings” is sort of deceiving, it actually opens another separate screen which is basically V-tune/Lemmiwinks/Unisettings, though on mine boost isn’t really adjustable, as it is currently at 100% but I only _maybe_ spike at 21psi and taper to 19psi.
















3. Log Viewer - allows you to analyze the entire log file; you can zoom to a specific section, print the graph, or save it as an image.
















- Once you get the software installed and working, you have to Read ECU with the flash program; I would enable hi-speed since my connection crapped out with it unchecked (probably car dependant). Once you read/save the file, you’ll e-mail this to Chris, and he will send you a tuned file. Barring any problems, you will be able to simply download the file, hook up your computer and flash your ECU. Here is a visual sequence:
Action pic:








Reading the ECU:








*(…a few days/emails pass…)*
Flashing the ECU:
























Time to play!!
































I will amend this thread if I or any of you guys give me a simple run-down off the specific features, and what each means and does; I’m a n00b and I know someone else can probably just rattle off a simple explanation for each.
I really like the extra power from my flashtune but I’m excited to dig into my tuning; my only complaints are about the logging window; it is good but not great, although you can save the image I know that future updates are going to come for the software. *A few suggestions:* I would like the log graph to be available in a separate, full window, I'd like to be able to pick my own line/background colors, labels for most/all the variables in the Log Viewer window would help, and being able to define the values for each axis in the graph (such as psi, *F, CFM, a/f) would kick ass








Maestro guys, please contribute to this thread so we can compile a ton of info to help each other out, and I hope this is informative for anyone thinking about getting the Maestro 7







Here is a picture of a full-throttle 3rd gear run, I can get other info graphed if people want…











_Modified by l88m22vette at 6:00 PM 10-21-2009_


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (l88m22vette)*

Geez took you long enough


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (16plus4v)*

Good Job http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (16plus4v)*

I recommend a full laptop not a net book. Difficult to see the full screen.
the icons on the maestro screen will open all related windows to make the appropriate changes

_Modified by VRT at 11:29 PM 10-19-2009_


_Modified by VRT at 11:42 AM 10-20-2009_


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

looks nice, i will also be contributing to this thread once mine comes in


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *halchka99* »_looks nice, i will also be contributing to this thread once mine comes in









que ? wtf.. no more SM4 ?


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

i had uni before. just sold that and ordered this


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*

Oh ya.. brain fart, lol thinking of someone else. Good sell btw http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (16plus4v)*

*** that is delicious


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Vegeta Gti)*









I found the info on this screen to be interpret differently.
I believe that *KEY OFF ENGINE OFF* and *KEY ON ENGINE OFF* would be a better description 
I know it caught me a few times when trying to load files



_Modified by VRT at 6:08 PM 10-20-2009_


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## McBee (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (VRT)*

Just what I was looking for http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (McBee)*

Wait a minute.. No access to fuel, timing, boost, and readiness?? That's a bit dissapointing..


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*









You obviously can't read


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## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

Thank you!!!


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubinsincuwereindiapers* »_Wait a minute.. No access to fuel, timing, boost, and readiness?? That's a bit dissapointing..









It's all there.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_








You obviously can't read 

Actually I can... He states that as of 10/19/2009 those maps are non adjustable..


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*

I have the program that is not the case 
you missunderstand the graph map is not adjustable but the Number map makes all the changes to the graph map


_Modified by VRT at 7:26 PM 10-20-2009_


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## Stinky Binky (Oct 16, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubinsincuwereindiapers* »_
Actually I can... He states that as of 10/19/2009 those maps are non adjustable..


I believe you can change the maps, from this picture it appears he his altering the boost duty map, he changes the numerical value which then translates to the visual 3D map. I believe he says the 3D maps are adjustable through changing the numerical data in the table and not through actually grabbing points on the graph and moving them around(I could be wrong thought).

_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_allows adjustment of all tune settings with 3D maps (adjustment through numerical settings, maps non-adjustable as of 10.19.2009)


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Stinky Binky)*

Ahh.. I stand corrected.. The wording led me to believe otherwise..


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## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

This thread should be sticky! Revolutionary!


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_Geez took you long enough










_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_I recommend a full laptop not a net book. Difficult to see the full screen.

yea, I tune in Maestro on my desktop, then transfer files to/from my netbook for flashing and logging. Even if you could see on the netbook screen having an actual workstation is much easier...

_Quote, originally posted by *dubinsincuwereindiapers* »_Wait a minute.. No access to fuel, timing, boost, and readiness?? That's a bit dissapointing..










_Quote, originally posted by *dubinsincuwereindiapers* »_Actually I can... He states that as of 10/19/2009 those maps are non adjustable..


_Quote, originally posted by *Stinky Binky* »_I believe he says the 3D maps are adjustable through changing the numerical data in the table and not through actually grabbing points on the graph and moving them around(I could be wrong thought)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif There is basic adjustment through "Read Settings" in Flash or with a lot of detail in Maestro


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## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *halchka99* »_*i had uni before. just sold that and ordered this*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
if i got forth with anymore mods to my mk4, Maestro 7 is on the "to get" list


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## ethorman (Jun 18, 2006)

Awesome Job, deffinatly STICKY worthy!


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## dlsolo (Sep 6, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *ethorman* »_Awesome Job, deffinatly STICKY worthy!


x2


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (ethorman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ethorman* »_Awesome Job, deffinatly STICKY worthy!

CAN'T








Great Job Eric,
I will be contributing shortly. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ethorman (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

FAQ worthy then?


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (ethorman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ethorman* »_FAQ worthy then?

Absolutely.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (16plus4v)*

Make sure you don't accidentally kick the cable while it is writing to the ecu either.








When is this going to be available for other ME7 cars? Like maybe the R32?


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (DarkSideGTI)*

^^ Very soon.


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## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

Got a couple of questions i tried to email their website but im sure they have tons of emails and work thats takes priority so I turn to you guys for help :>
Back ground: 
1 my dog (105lb boxer) stepped on my laptop and cracked the screen, still works but i gotta manuever the windows to see stuff lol-myfualt leaving it on the ground in a corner i guess
2 I am planing for going for 450-500awhp later and want to do as many mods now that will get me power or show difference now that i wont have to rebuy later
Question 1
If i get the software now and load it onto my laptop to use on my car... when i get a new laptop can i load it to my new one
question 2
If i get the software and update my car so it is better now, is it free to get another map when i get my exhaust and DV
question 3
how much is it to upgrade the tune/map when i go BAT?
I really appreciate all the help


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## blackedoutaudi (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (sound-speed-style)*

how much does it cost for this thingy magingy


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## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: (blackedoutaudi)*

for the Maestro Suite 7 its $915


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (sound-speed-style)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sound-speed-style* »_Got a couple of questions i tried to email their website but im sure they have tons of emails and work thats takes priority so I turn to you guys for help :>
Back ground: 
1 my dog (105lb boxer) stepped on my laptop and cracked the screen, still works but i gotta manuever the windows to see stuff lol-myfualt leaving it on the ground in a corner i guess
2 I am planing for going for 450-500awhp later and want to do as many mods now that will get me power or show difference now that i wont have to rebuy later
Question 1
If i get the software now and load it onto my laptop to use on my car... when i get a new laptop can i load it to my new one
*Yes it's simply a software download off of Eurodyne's website. Chris gives you a log in password for the download*
question 2
If i get the software and update my car so it is better now, is it free to get another map when i get my exhaust and DV
*Yes, you simply flash the file according to your setup.*
question 3
how much is it to upgrade the tune/map when i go BAT?
*The cost for Maestro is a one tme charge. $915 and you won't pay anything to switch files.*
I really appreciate all the help


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (l88m22vette)*

Any kind of MAF scaling features?


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## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

awesome that helps alot means im ordering it friday when i get my check!







Its insane that they will just keep sending you free maps as you upgrade... just goes to show how much more CTapp ROCKS over all competitors


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## blackedoutaudi (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (sound-speed-style)*

free maps....arent these generic maps..do they custom tune?


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (sound-speed-style)*

You shouldn't need too many maps.. te whole point is that you can tweak the files to better your setup. Maybe you should just look into the fash loader and data logging software ?


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## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

well for now i just want it tuned to run best on the baby k03s and then when i go bt get it to where it will run no problem then i will work it from there


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (sound-speed-style)*

So why don't you just get basic software for now and wait until you go BT ? your not going to gain all that much unless you can tune it yourself.. There is only so much a tune can be changed in house and actually perfrm well IN the car.


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## blackedoutaudi (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (16plus4v)*

wouldnt it be best to get your car dyno tuned instead of having generic maps?


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (blackedoutaudi)*

Eurodyne's generic maps make great power and leave little that need changing. It's all in the setup and the tuner


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## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

because if i get the flash thats 450... then later ill have to spend 915.. or i can do 915 just once and get a tune set up now and later


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## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: (16plus4v)*

So I'd only have to pay 450 now then 565 when I bat

And so much for not ruining the thread hehe but that was funny lol


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

I'd personally buy maestro first thing as opposed to buying a chip tune first. If you go with the tapp 630 file, or something similar to it..you'll have to shell out another 500 to get the maestro.
750+500 > 900 up front.


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## vanaman (Aug 26, 2003)

*FV-QR*

This thread was cleaned up because of a few immature members who cant play nice.
steve


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## vanaman (Aug 26, 2003)

If i have to clean this up again, i will l just black hole the whole thread and be done with it.
steve


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *vanaman* »_If i have to clean this up again, i will l just black hole the whole thread and be done with it.
steve


thanks you steve it would suck to see a great thread get thrown down the drain come on guys... i would like this to be around when i get all my maestro stuff


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## NorthernGTI (Oct 26, 2005)

WOWOWOW..Looks amazing..Is it worth to get maestro tuning even for those people who are running mild turbo set up's?(t3s60, GT28's, etc)


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (NorthernGTI)*

I have a Gt28 on my car. Upgraded injectors used this program


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## blackedoutaudi (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (NorthernGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NorthernGTI* »_WOWOWOW..Looks amazing..Is it worth to get maestro tuning even for those people who are running mild turbo set up's?(t3s60, GT28's, etc)


its only worth it for them.it you had anything bigger,and wanted to make the most power and have the most tuning capabilities,you would go with a "real" stand alone system as they have far more options for more precise tuning.it wouldnt be a generic map as everyones car/setup is different


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (blackedoutaudi)*

Don't assume
I have both units and maestro is far superior


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## blackedoutaudi (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_Don't assume
I have both units and maestro is far superior

im not assuming.how is maestro far superior?i gotta hear this one


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: (blackedoutaudi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackedoutaudi* »_
its only worth it for them.it you had anything bigger,and wanted to make the most power and have the most tuning capabilities,you would go with a "real" stand alone system as they have far more options for more precise tuning.it wouldnt be a generic map as everyones car/setup is different

The most powerful 1.8T in North America used this tuning software.. This offers all the benefits of standalone, without having to create the base map, and also offers the added bonus of being able to pass OBD2 readiness testing.. Not to mention an added safety margin by retaining the factory knock sensors..


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## ethorman (Jun 18, 2006)

Maestro is great for any turbo...
They send you a base tune (aka generic) so for example if you are running a GT 35r on a fully built 2.0L, they will send you their tune for that to start off with, but if you eventually want to upgrade cams, intake manifold, or run w/m injection you can do all the modifying of your tune with this program.
Sure if you are running a full blown race setup standalone would probably be better, but think of this as better than a flash, and almost the same as a standalone, there is so much inside the programing that you can change. Hope that helps.
Edit: For 99 percent of the cars that are running BT and plan on making changes in the future this will cover it all. 


_Modified by ethorman at 8:52 AM 10-22-2009_


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## blackedoutaudi (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (ethorman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ethorman* »_
Sure if you are running a full blown race setup standalone would probably be better, but think of this as better than a flash, and almost the same as a standalone, there is so much inside the programing that you can change. Hope that helps.

_Modified by ethorman at 8:52 AM 10-22-2009_

does it have adaptive mapping?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubinsincuwereindiapers* »_
ONE OF The most powerful 1.8Ts in North America used this tuning software.. This offers all the benefits of standalone, without having to create the base map, and also offers the added bonus of being able to pass OBD2 readiness testing.. Not to mention an added safety margin by retaining the factory knock sensors..


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: (blackedoutaudi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackedoutaudi* »_
does it have adaptive mapping?
 The factory Bosch ME7 has adaptive mapping.. Standalone doesn't adapt to anything.. With standalone you must make changes yourself for air temp, density, etc.. So if you have an upgraded tune Via Maestro, the ecu will automaticly adapt for temp/ density changes, etc.. Just like stock, but applied to the new programming..


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: (blackedoutaudi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackedoutaudi* »_
im not assuming.how is maestro far superior?i gotta hear this one

I am going to chime in here. First off the Eurodyne Maestro system appears to have it all...
But to me there are 5 distinct advantages of running a Eurodyne Maestro setup vs. standalone. 
1. Standalones do not come with a base tune / map. So the average joe tuner can modify from an incredible starting point.
2. There is no need for any plug and play harness or splicing of wiring etc..
3. Allows for most if not all of a standalones potential with a stock ECU and ahemm... Can be used in California's infamous smog checks. (I am not aware of any standalones that have passed Cali smog. Please correct me if I am wrong)
4. Price. I don't believe that there are any standalones for under maestros price point. 
5. Eurodyne has made it incredibly easy is it to customize what you wish to eliminate or include with regards to eliminating CEL's due to Evap, cat and other related items.
Not trying to argue with anyone just pointing out my opinions on why I would rather and do plan on going with Eurodyne's Maestro over a standalone.


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (sledge0001)*

well said


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sledge0001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sledge0001* »_
Eurodyne Maestro setup vs. standalone. 


You are forgetting one of the most important features of ME-7 vs Standalone....
_*** knock sensing ***_
I have yet to meet someone with an standalone system that has been able to effectively tune there engine for knock without blowing it up.Even if you went with a Motec and asked for the assisstance with knock tuning,they would say sure np but you would need to send them a replica motor to blow up








For the ME5.8 guys and lower,they really only have 2 choices:
1. ME-7 conversion
2. Standalone
but if you are a 2001+ MKIV or Audi B5/B6 then definitely a "chip tune" is the way to go. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

stock ecu uses a wideband o2 to constantly hit target afrs.
with a standalone, you spend hours on the dyno making sure you're close. Any minor changes in your setup, weather, or gasoline will alter your tune. You'll have to frequently "optimize". 
Stock ecu has 12 degrees of timing correction, dual knock sensors that count knock per individual cylinder. I know some standalones can do this...but none of them as reliably and as easily as the stock ecu. 
When you take those two and add them together, you get an ecu that does a hell of a lot to protect the motor. I've never seen a wideband me7 car blowup due to a bad tune. I've seen plenty of standalones do that though....on an almost regular basis.


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## blackedoutaudi (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (DarkSideGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DarkSideGTI* »_Does your stand alone work with DBW? And you can pass readiness tests with it?

you have to convert to DBC with isnt hard,034 sells the pedal conversion,all you have to do is supply ur own tb and throttle cable...and i stated that the only advantage of the maestro is that it retains the obdII.mine does not.i also said theres no inspection in my state,so i use it on the street also without any worries


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## [email protected] (Dec 12, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (blackedoutaudi)*

*Last warning, folks.
No. More. Arguing.
This is a FAQ / DIY thread for Maestro.
If you want to discuss other standalone systems, go elsewhere.*
-Tim


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (blackedoutaudi)*

Please quit de-railing this topic.. 
L88m22vette put a lot of work into creating this informative thread for those interested in the Eurodyne Maestro Suite..
One of the other users was nice enough to post a thread for you to talk about this in... Please use it..


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*

wait hold on. so we can't discuss why the maestro is great as a plug and play setup with standalone capabilities. so we can't compare in this thread?
i believe i am saving up for this. i def think it's amazing, i love my uni and some of the things uni has done for me. but the price and ease of maestro is just more and more tempting.
from a dealer aspect, is there a dealer option available for maestro, so i can have my personal separate from my dealer maestro?? if there such a thing.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (sledge0001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sledge0001* »_
I am going to chime in here. First off the Eurodyne Maestro system appears to have it all...
But to me there are 5 distinct advantages of running a Eurodyne Maestro setup vs. standalone. 
1. Standalones do not come with a base tune / map. So the average joe tuner can modify from an incredible starting point.
2. There is no need for any plug and play harness or splicing of wiring etc..
3. Allows for most if not all of a standalones potential with a stock ECU and ahemm... Can be used in California's infamous smog checks. (I am not aware of any standalones that have passed Cali smog. Please correct me if I am wrong)
4. Price. I don't believe that there are any standalones for under maestros price point. 
5. Eurodyne has made it incredibly easy is it to customize what you wish to eliminate or include with regards to eliminating CEL's due to Evap, cat and other related items.
Not trying to argue with anyone just pointing out my opinions on why I would rather and do plan on going with Eurodyne's Maestro over a standalone.


winner winner, chicken dinner


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## DonSupreme (Apr 11, 2006)

nice work.


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

*Re: (DonSupreme)*

Great post Eric http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: (20aeman)*

ok so im confused now


_Modified by sound-speed-style at 6:28 PM 10-22-2009_


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

what all cel's can you get rid off with this


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## Scrampa1.8T (Feb 10, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_what all cel's can you get rid off with this

honestly it's probably best if you tell everyone what you're trying to get rid of/avoid because there's just so much.


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## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_I'd personally buy maestro first thing as opposed to buying a chip tune first. If you go with the tapp 630 file, or something similar to it..you'll have to shell out another 500 to get the maestro.
750+500 > 900 up front.


Thats what i thought but i was told that you only have to pay the diffence which would make it the same as buying it at once... now i confused lol... 
so if i buy the reflash for 550... would i only have to pay the 350 dollar difference down the road or is there something that im missing that i will have to pay more later... 
I dont mind spending 900 now, but if i can do 550 now and just pay the difference later that means i get the reflash and some other mod now and i can get the maestro later with now penalty..
idealy if its the same whether i buy it in two purchase reflash then maestro i would love that .. but if it cost more in the long run id rather just do it all at once


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scrampa1.8T* »_
honestly it's probably best if you tell everyone what you're trying to get rid of/avoid because there's just so much.


i was just wondering what the options were to delete you dont have to be a donkey


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## Scrampa1.8T (Feb 10, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_
i was just wondering what the options were to delete you dont have to be a donkey

and me being an ass in the comment I made lies where? the programming will delete just about anything you'd ever want to and readiness is set at all times. what are you looking to delete that way you can have a specific answer.


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## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_
i was just wondering what the options were to delete you dont have to be a donkey

he isn't there... there are just a ton of options and we are keeping this thread clean so if you arent satisfied with his answer then try asking a better question or word it better


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (sound-speed-style)*

Fine... Ill answer it.. N249, N80,N112,SAI,rear 02, and VVT..... Just about anything that can be deleted, and still allow the system to function can be deleted..


----------



## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

ok so i dont wanna sound like a total moron... but is there anywhere i can learn to tune besides kinda just learning lol... like is there a book or any classes anyone know of... i just got off the honda scene and those are ez to do... audi's seem to be a lil more fancy with it all... 
anyway simplified- any books or classes you can get/take to become a tuning master on these goregous machines?


----------



## ethorman (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (sound-speed-style)*

I am in the same boat you are in, trying to learn how to tune that is, but a motor is a motor, just have to make sure you get the right a/f ratio down, and the software is what makes it seem fancy. Great software just have to learn how to use it all. I am sure in a few months there will be a DIY on how to set it all up exactly and tune. Hope it helps.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubinsincuwereindiapers* »_Fine... Ill answer it.. N249, N80,N112,SAI,rear 02, and VVT..... Just about anything that can be deleted, and still allow the system to function can be deleted..


thank you thats kinda what i was looking for i would like a list of everything that could be cleared..


----------



## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

well timing a/f and boost is all pretty much easily understood, but the optimal numbers for each and everything else is what im in need of help on ... dont want to tune my a4 like a civic lol


----------



## ethorman (Jun 18, 2006)

That is understandable, but all in all tuning is tuning, myself I am going to wait for about six months till there is a good DIY and probably some updates.... The nice thing about Eurodyne is that it starts off with your base tune for whatever setup you have.... you should only really need to tweak settings, and/or modify the tune once you add upgrades.


----------



## DISTURBO (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: (sound-speed-style)*

Just turn up the boost and add timming till you see a little timming pull or none, I did this with my A4 and I was running 30psi on pump gas with a S366 BW. Full weight with me was 3550 and it trapped 120. so it was making some power,


----------



## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

but is there a place where i can learn the safe numbers and risky ones and no no numbers? lol... 
i have a feeling the answer to that question is wait untill some diys and updates come out


----------



## ethorman (Jun 18, 2006)

Or spend the money and go to the the Eurodyne dealer and have them show you how to tune/adjust it....


----------



## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

I would love to but Im in olympia washington... south of Seattle... nearest one is about 600miles away last time i searched :<
scratch that found one 3 hours and 30 mins away... might be worth it im emailing them now










_Modified by sound-speed-style at 9:03 PM 10-22-2009_


----------



## DISTURBO (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: (sound-speed-style)*

As long as the car is not pulling timming its happy







. You dont wanna see much timming pull


----------



## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

got ya... pending email from kineticmotorsport i may be taking a road trip to canada soon


----------



## DISTURBO (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: (sound-speed-style)*

Drive for an extra 800 Miles and I can help you, http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (DISTURBO)*

My initial 02x tune ran -1.50 timing from Chris, I've used 2.25 (like my stock setup) and its not happy, log+spike+pull = sucks. I'm going to go -.75 and so on until I see pull. You guys might also like this screen, Maximum VE, it appears to be a basic boost curve plotter, and the "Boost Duty" screen I posted earlier is specifically for N75 control


















_Modified by l88m22vette at 11:37 PM 10-22-2009_


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

Once the new motor goes in i'm going to do a FULL how-to-tune write up for this thread.
Something along the lines of a live video on..
How-to : Select and run a log
How-to : Use that log to determine where you can add/pull timing or fuel
How-to : Tune the fuel/ timing trims
How-to : Data log what you've done to ensure all is well.. 
Something like that, but a video feed.


----------



## simon-says (Oct 21, 2007)

*Re: (16plus4v)*

Okay, so when is the motor going in? Just really excited to see how a real tuner does it.
http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_right.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_left.gif


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (vanaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vanaman* »_If i have to clean this up again, i will l just black hole the whole thread and be done with it.
steve

this sentence makes no sense. why would you "black-hole" an entire thread for what a few people said? that would be a _great_ way to contribute to the forum you rule.....


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (simon-says)*


_Quote, originally posted by *simon-says* »_Okay, so when is the motor going in? Just really excited to see how a real tuner does it.
http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_right.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_left.gif 

Gathering valve train parts and sending the head out to BOBQ in a couple weeks, once I get that back I'll button everything up.. aiming for late January early Feb to hit the dyno. 
I will be doing an " off the shelf " dyno for both pump and c16, as well as a re mapped dyno for both using the Maestro suite. I plan to show how I did it so people have a general idea of the procedures involved.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Would be nice to know what the a/f ratio should be at WOT, how much timing to look for etc. I will be getting Maesto installed within the next few days. Ive read a bit but still forget occasionally.


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (Dub-Nub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dub-Nub* »_Would be nice to know what the a/f ratio should be at WOT, how much timing to look for etc. I will be getting Maesto installed within the next few days. Ive read a bit but still forget occasionally. 

Well it all depends on your supporting mods.
Generally the a/f ratio is safe anywhere between 11.6-12.0 all the way up top (5k-9k)
Timing should be in the 16*-17* area (5k+), again depends on supporting mods.


----------



## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

SIDE question!
where did you learn this stuff. like is there a site, book, class? or did you learn frmo expierence or what lol... i really wanna learn to do this and know this stuff but i have no idea where to start
i emailed a eurodyne dealer in canada and im waiting to hear back from them about the possibilities but id be a lot happier if i could learn to tune my car without having to drive 7 hours round trip


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (sound-speed-style)*

It's more experience and self learning. Basically if you decide to go with the Maestro suite, you can post up your timing/a.f logs and we can tell you if everything is kosher. OR we can direct you in the right direction to gain power and/or better your setup.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

One i get my maesto running i will play around with it. I have played with apr v-tune and vag-com logs but this is going to be awesummmmm!!!!


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (sound-speed-style)*

Chris is going to finish the help files really soon and those should help; he also mentioned that he is planning on including an OBDII scanner/DTC clearing function eventually.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

I have read this thread a few times and I want to make one thing clear.
*base map or generic map* are the wrong words that should be used for what Tapp gives you. If you contact Eurodyne for a file for your GT28 turbo on 440cc injectors. You get a great file that you will rave about like most have done. Well that is the same file that you start with when Tapp sends you a file *so called base map*. 
There really is no need to change this map. Unless you like to play around with different injectors or timing. Even just adding to your file. I went to larger injectors and meth. This system let me make the changes that I need to make. Without having to contact Eurodyne for a update tune http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Yep, we just switched dave's car over to maestro. It's a basic 30r setup plus cams. 
Haven't gone to the dyno yet, but for the street, i haven't needed to make any changes. 
This is NOT like getting a standalone ecu from haltech or aem or something and starting with a flat, totally untuned map, and having to dick with it just to get it to start, let alone go down the road.


----------



## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

so its basically a tune you get from Ctapp.. works fine if you dont touch it and it works 100% perfect, 
but you do have the option to fine tune it and tweak it just a little bit to gain some more hp


----------



## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

*Re: (sound-speed-style)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sound-speed-style* »_so its basically a tune you get from Ctapp.. works fine if you dont touch it and it works 100% perfect, 
but you do have the option to fine tune it and tweak it just a little bit to gain some more hp

Yep, or if you do some additional mods and decide to tweak the tune to suite your setup 100%


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

And you can get off-the-shelf maps for specific BT setups at no charge http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_I have read this thread a few times and I want to make one thing clear.
*base map or generic map* are the wrong words that should be used for what Tapp gives you. If you contact Eurodyne for a file for your GT28 turbo on 440cc injectors. You get a great file that you will rave about like most have done. Well that is the same file that you start with when Tapp sends you a file *so called base map*. 
There really is no need to change this map. Unless you like to play around with different injectors or timing. Even just adding to your file. I went to larger injectors and meth. This system let me make the changes that I need to make. Without having to contact Eurodyne for a update tune http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Yeah , I was going to emphasize this fact also. The 1000cc file in my A4 runs flawlessly. 29psi on pump and it pulls no timing.. mint tune needless to say. I will however bump up the timing once the W/M goes in. Also I'll be running the c16 with w/m also.. so I'll be messing around to get the best gains possible from that as well.
This Tuning Suite is there for those who take it to the next level. Other than that the files are usually 100% the way you get them from Chris.


----------



## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

buying from eurodynes site is the cheapest way to get it right? i looked at some shops but they inflated the price a bit... 
not that 900 is too much is a great deal just if i can save some cash you would be retarded not double check


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (sound-speed-style)*

I wonder why they would inflate the costs ? Maybe the duties for shipping from Canada ?


----------



## sound-speed-style (Oct 22, 2009)

its only like a 50-75 difference so maybe


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

you guys think i can use 1200cc injectors with the 1000cc base tune?


----------



## DISTURBO (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*

Not sure, why are you going to over 700whp


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

clay originally got a set of 1200s for my uni tune but now that i changed to eurodyne id like to use what he already had ordered.


----------



## DISTURBO (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*

Just give Tapp a call. Ill take 2 secs to tell you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *halchka99* »_you guys think i can use 1200cc injectors with the 1000cc base tune? 

Yes with the correct adjustments in the fuel trim there should be no reason to not be able to run them.
I went from 380 to 440- no problem


----------



## BeasTToftheEast (Sep 20, 2007)

By the looks of it you have to buy the reflash to be able to use Maestro 7, unless this was already figured out, idk


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (TTguy30)*

correct- you get the reflash unit when you buy the Maestro 7


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

I believe there are three way sto flash the stuff
Send them ecu for Normal/BT flash
Purchase the flash loader and reflash yourself
Purchase maestro that comes with flash loader


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

so i got a box, with a cable, and nothing else, how do i actually obtain the maestro software? im not sure what i do after receiving the cable. anyone get instructions?


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *halchka99* »_so i got a box, with a cable, and nothing else, how do i actually obtain the maestro software? im not sure what i do after receiving the cable. anyone get instructions?

Call Chris @ Eurodyne/ Tapp Auto and tell him you just received everything. He'll then give you a log on password for the Eurodyne website. This is where you will download your file. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (16plus4v)*

OR you could read the first page


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

^ thats no fun


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_OR you could read the first page

tsk tsk


----------



## BeasTToftheEast (Sep 20, 2007)

Well on the site it makes you buy the reflash along with Maestro 7, it doesn't just come with it, so it comes out to around $1500 or so


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (TTguy30)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TTguy30* »_Well on the site it makes you buy the reflash along with Maestro 7, it doesn't just come with it, so it comes out to around $1500 or so

Your completely fail. And reading > you
1) Go to : http://www.eurodyne.ca
2) Click " Shop Online " at the top of the page
3) Select Maestro7 Tuning Suite and add to cart.
4) When forwarded to Paypal's checkout menu, select " Proceed to Checkout " and enter in all of your information.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (TTguy30)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TTguy30* »_Well on the site it makes you buy the reflash along with Maestro 7, it doesn't just come with it, so it comes out to around $1500 or so

No
it is 899 + shipping. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Question: Can you have two maps loaded and switch between the two on the fly via the cruise stalk?


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (TSTARKZ123)*

R32 pls.


----------



## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *DarkSideGTI* »_R32 pls.


Eurodyne doesn't currently have software for the R32?


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (TSTARKZ123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TSTARKZ123* »_
Eurodyne doesn't currently have software for the R32?

I dunno, I want Maestro.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (TSTARKZ123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TSTARKZ123* »_Question: Can you have two maps loaded and switch between the two on the fly via the cruise stalk? 

Not sure if this is available as yet. Most of here are still learning the Maestro 7 but it is a great tool.


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*

No cruise stalk trick as of now, but there are low/high boost settings in the simpler Unisettings-style basic tune window you open with the flash program http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I have a question for all you Eurodyne SW guys. How many of you guys used the FlashLoader program Eurodyne Emails you to flash your car for the first time?
i ask because Chris tapp just emailed me a copy of the FlashLoader program, so he can update my 630 file, but everytime i click on "Read ECU" i get the same message: " Cable Not Found" (though the cable is plugged in the USB port).
before he can Email me the new file, i have to have Flashloader get all of my ECU info first, but i cant get any of this info with it not recognizing the cable is there









any ideas? im up for any suggestions... thanks!!!


----------



## crazyass713 (Dec 28, 2006)

*FV-QR*

How is the N75 working for you? (if you are using it)


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (5inchMAF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *5inchMAF* »_I have a question for all you Eurodyne SW guys. How many of you guys used the FlashLoader program Eurodyne Emails you to flash your car for the first time?
i ask because Chris tapp just emailed me a copy of the FlashLoader program, so he can update my 630 file, but everytime i click on "Read ECU" i get the same message: " Cable Not Found" (though the cable is plugged in the USB port).
before he can Email me the new file, i have to have Flashloader get all of my ECU info first, but i cant get any of this info with it not recognizing the cable is there









turn the key on/off should help
any ideas? im up for any suggestions... thanks!!!


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (VRT)*

^You need to install the cable driver, or at least plug in your cable (it may or may not autodetect), then you have to do a Windows update, install it and restart. BTW, another way to determine if you can connect to your ECU is by clicking "Get Info."
As for the N75, I am still trying to get the controls figured out, I get a lot a spike (~25psi) and then hold at 20; if I can't seem to build a good map I might take a stab at using my HPBC, but that's last resort as of now


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*FV-QR*

where did you find this driver?


----------



## vert1 (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (5inchMAF)*

Its in the zip file you download from Chris's site, you have to install it seperately to the main files.
It appears as drivers.exe file,


----------



## vert1 (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (vert1)*

Got our car running today with Chris's Eurodyne 630cc file, had a couple of issues getting rid of the Immo but Chris was fantastic to deal with and saw us through http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Got that sorted, flashed the ECU and started on the first turn of the key







VERY HAPPY!
I would seriously reccommend this to anyone, not having to send the ECU away is just sooooo much easier plus the added advantage of being able to adjust things yourself is awesome.
Especially for overseas guys like us this is a major advantage, again Chris Tapp you da man!


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (l88m22vette)*


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

with the new job started i will have mine soon... and then i can go do my emmisions ive extended it 5 times now and the revostg2 and doin a damn thing for my 50trim


----------



## Cru$ty GLI (Sep 23, 2008)

Any solution on the "Cable not Found" error message? Ive tryed everything that is listed above and nothing seems to work, [email protected] doesnt even know whats up and Chris is out for the weekend. I need my car running asap.
Thanks for any help


----------



## EF9Si (Dec 12, 2003)

*Re: (Cru$ty GLI)*

So when are you building the engine home skillets?


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (Cru$ty GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cru$ty GLI* »_Any solution on the "Cable not Found" error message?

Did you:
- Install the CDM driver?
- Install Eurodyne Flash?
- Do a Windows update?
- Plug the cable in without running a program to see if the PC would auto-detect/recognize the cable?
- Restart your computer?


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (Cru$ty GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cru$ty GLI* »_Any solution on the "Cable not Found" error message? Ive tryed everything that is listed above and nothing seems to work, [email protected] doesnt even know whats up and Chris is out for the weekend. I need my car running asap.
Thanks for any help

I'll be sending you updated SW soon. Your cable is one of the newest ones. Just hang in there


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

chris just updated the software because of problems with the immo defeat key not working correctly. 
i ended up having to send my ecu to him.
but all is good now
many thanks go out to chris for helping me out and customer service is top notch.


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: (Cru$ty GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cru$ty GLI* »_Any solution on the "Cable not Found" error message? Ive tryed everything that is listed above and nothing seems to work, [email protected] doesnt even know whats up and Chris is out for the weekend. I need my car running asap.
Thanks for any help

i had same problem.

click on the CDM in the setup folder.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (coreyj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *coreyj* »_
many thanks go out to chris for helping me out and customer service is top notch.
definitely so.
He has been working hard on 1 of my customers and response time has been flawless. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_definitely so.
He has been working hard on 1 of my customers and response time has been flawless. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: (16plus4v)*

R32, yes...








really don't wanna put stand alone on this thing...


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

i just recently was doing some logs with the maestro.
im wondering what everyone is getting on timing pull? im on the n75 and at 20-21psi with no adjustments made to the software yet and i was getting up to 6 degree of pull on a couple of the cylinders.. 
later that night i decided to mix in a couple gallons of 110 oct. with my half tank of 93 oct and that lowered the timing pull a bit to 1-2 degree of pull. 
should i be trying to get my pull to 0 on all cylinders? 
on monday im going to be renting a dyno for an hour then i guess trying to adjust the low octane setting to get 0 pull on 93. then ill be adjusting the high octane setting to have 0 pull on 104 oct. i probly wont be able to run as much boost as im wanting since i only have 630cc @4 bar but i think ill still be able to hit 27-28psi and just adjust the timing for the most power.
o and this is going to be on a T25 gt3076


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

^^ Can you post your logs ?
- With w/m and 29psi on the a4 (bep s366) there was pretty much 0 timing pull, Timing up top was around 16-17* and could have ran more. At 25psi no meth it was pulling approx. 1-2 degrees which is fine. Anything under 3-4* timing pull is decent. Anything higher you should look into makin some adjustments.
- Your 104 oct if pulling 0 timing clearly shows you have room to bump it up. 
- If you cant post some logs, what is your timing looking like between 4-7k ?



_Modified by 16plus4v at 1:53 PM 11-29-2009_


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: (16plus4v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_^^ Can you post your logs ?
- With w/m and 29psi on the a4 (bep s366) there was pretty much 0 timing pull, Timing up top was around 16-17* and could have ran more. At 25psi no meth it was pulling approx. 1-2 degrees which is fine. Anything under 3-4* timing pull is decent. Anything higher you should look into makin some adjustments.
- Your 104 oct if pulling 0 timing clearly shows you have room to bump it up. 
- If you cant post some logs, what is your timing looking like between 4-7k ?

_Modified by 16plus4v at 1:53 PM 11-29-2009_


i did the logs on a friends computer so i dont have them . but id say the timing looked good until it hit 5500rpm or so and it would jump up to 3.75 then it was hitting 5.00 by 6500 then 7000rpm it was at 6.25.

ill actually go out and do some logs here in a hour or 2 so ill be able to post them up. but they are not going to be accurate because there is 2 gallons of 110 in the tank with about 7 gallons of 93.


----------



## PassatMrT (Oct 10, 2009)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
For the ME5.8 guys and lower,they really only have 2 choices:
1. ME-7 conversion
2. Standalone
but if you are a 2001+ MKIV or Audi B5/B6 then definitely a "chip tune" is the way to go. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Actually, In the next few weeks, they will be releasing DBC (AEB included) hardware that will allow for the same tuning modifications to be made without removing the ECU.


_Modified by PassatMrT at 5:41 PM 11-29-2009_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (PassatMrT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PassatMrT* »_
Actually, In the next few weeks, they will be releasing DBC (AEB included) hardware that will allow for the same tuning modifications to be made without removing the ECU.

I am a Eurodyne/Meastro 7 dealer so when Chris notified me of the release for the ME5 I was pretty happy to hear that but still anyone with real world ME5.8 experience will tell you that you are better off going with an ME-7 conversion.
wideband + DBW throttle bodies open the door to ALOT of power add ons that will not be achievable with ME-5.


----------



## Late__Apex (Dec 2, 2007)

I have an A4 and a TT. Can you flash more than one car with the software or do you need two licenses.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (Late__Apex)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Late__Apex* »_I have an A4 and a TT. Can you flash more than one car with the software or do you need two licenses.


You would need 2 separate licenses respective for each car


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

can some one graph this log and post it up for me? 
i can not get my log viewer to work correctly...still.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QXLEWFU1


----------



## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (coreyj)*

I was actually going to ask if anyone had any logs as well as how fast the datalogger refreshes. Looks like 16.6Hz and decent data. What turbo is that?


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: (bbeach)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bbeach* »_I was actually going to ask if anyone had any logs as well as how fast the datalogger refreshes. Looks like 16.6Hz and decent data. What turbo is that?









t25 30R thanks 4 the upload man.


----------



## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (coreyj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *coreyj* »_
t25 30R thanks 4 the upload man.

No problem, now when I log with Vagcom I get an N75 duty cycle of 95.3% when building boost, why is yours in the 70s? Still N75 or does maestro interpret it differently?


----------



## mk2DTM8v (Feb 18, 2005)

If the duty cycle of the n75 valve can be modified, who's to say it couldn't be used in conjunction with an external gate with a stiffer than stock spring. Reason being then say 50 percent duty cycle would now net more than a negligible amount of boost. That way boost could be controlled via the n75 as high as needed. I don't know how the computer will like that being that once boost rises out of the ecus eyes around 22psi....any input??


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

im not sure about all the duty cycle stuff still learning the software. but for what ever its worth i made more power with the N 75 than i did with the MBC i was actually losing boost at redline with MBC and i gained Boost with the N75


----------



## PassatMrT (Oct 10, 2009)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
I am a Eurodyne/Meastro 7 dealer so when Chris notified me of the release for the ME5 I was pretty happy to hear that but still anyone with real world ME5.8 experience will tell you that you are better off going with an ME-7 conversion.
wideband + DBW throttle bodies open the door to ALOT of power add ons that will not be achievable with ME-5.

While I agree the ME7 offers more options, (like MAFless files) it's also more complex to tune. That and I've always heard that the DBW systems suck. But then again, there may be advantages to them, I just haven't heard them yet. 
As for my setup, I plan on staying with my AEM controller for boost and my Innovate wideband to keep an eye on things. Spray some W/M for insurance and I think I can make some good power over my current tune. 


_Modified by PassatMrT at 4:17 PM 12-13-2009_


----------



## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

*FV-QR*

That sample rate is reason enough to make me want to switch! LOL!


----------



## Snitches Get Stitches (Jul 21, 2007)

R32 please...in my case R32 head + 2.9l bottom end..R32 fuel rail 2.8L ecu....want the ability to adjust for cams(Schrick 272) in the future without new tune and I want bigger injectors...Currently C2 tune 440cc with 580cc on the way...
This is a great tool for you 1.8T guys...Jealous and awaiting R32/2.8L VR6 availability


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

im about to install some ls2 coil packs to see if that cures my misfire i some times get when i have full boost. im thinking my spark is being blown out due to the fact my coils are 2.5 years old and have only had big turbo and high boost on them..im going to see if i can mess with the dwell a bit, set it to 5ms increasing to 7ms in the high rpm. if im not capable then im sure chris can figure something out.


----------



## Dmdusn (Aug 17, 2006)

I'm running APR 3+ on a Gti. Can I just buy the Maestro, and flash over the APR sw? It's my DD, so taking my ecu out and sending it from Hawaii to Canada wont really work.


----------



## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Wideband parts are all here. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute to this thread soon.


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (TSTARKZ123)*

I'm sending my unit in today to get the FW update, I plan to tweak some stuff once I get it back and get my HPBC set - its pretty amazing how much better the throttle/boost is with the POS N75 removed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Is dwell adjustable?!?!?!
I have not been able to find this. I am waiting for Chris Tapp to reply via email


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

interesting, maybe i just found a way to get my car running properly.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

great thread, wish more ppl new more about it. understandable though since its only been out for a while. looks to be a great system though, looks like i will be giving it a shot with my a4 s258 build.


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (l88m22vette)*

I havent received a confirmation email from Eurodynes website to confirm my email address. Chris already sent me log in info and a password but it still has to verify my email and its been over an hour without receiving one. What should i do? Chris said he can't control the website but this seems to be taking way to long.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (jettaman18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jettaman18t* »_I havent received a confirmation email from Eurodynes website to confirm my email address. Chris already sent me log in info and a password but it still has to verify my email and its been over an hour without receiving one. What should i do? Chris said he can't control the website but this seems to be taking way to long.

Settle down beavis. Sometimes e-mail takes a good while. It could be stuck in a mail queue somewhere or there is a temporary broken route between your mail servers.


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_
Settle down beavis. Sometimes e-mail takes a good while. It could be stuck in a mail queue somewhere or there is a temporary broken route between your mail servers.









LMAO


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (gdoggmoney)*

Haha I know I'm super impatient. But hey I can't help it I'm excited haha.


----------



## MikeD86 (Jan 21, 2008)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (jettaman18t)*

anyone having major issues with the N75 with the gt 28rs?


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (MikeD86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MikeD86* »_anyone having major issues with the N75 with the gt 28rs?

i did with revo 3 and n75 w/ gt28 had to go MBC. then i switched to eurodyne and gt30r w/ n75 and all is well


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (l88m22vette)*

So I finally installed my maestro software. It took a while but I got it to work. I did my first log today and I'm having a very hard time understanding what the graphing says. What I'm gonna do is post my log from excel since I don't know how to upload the other log through maestro. My car is definitely having some serious running rich issues. The fuel smell at idle is horrible and not to mention the black carbon coming out of my exhaust. And my afrs at wot are not good either. This log is at wastegate pressure just because past 17 psi the afrs were scary lean. What can I adjust in Maestro to fix or resolve these issues? Can anyone chime in there thoughts it would be greatly appreciated. How do I post an excel file into here I tried it but it doesn't work.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (jettaman18t)*

Probably a question for Tapp directly, but....
Is there a complete list of available 'base' tunes?
i.e.
---AWP---
ko3 - 317cc - 93oct
BT - 440cc - 93oct
BT - 630cc - 93oct
BT - 830cc - race
etc
Thanks,
Rey


----------



## Black01Jetta (Feb 25, 2008)

I talked to chris directly on this issue. You buy the meastro suite read the ecu and email him the read file. also include what mods you have. let him know what you want deleted ie: sai, n249, and others and he can write them into the file or you can change them with the software yourself and then chris emails you your base tune back and you go flash your car with it.


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (l88m22vette)*

Please check out my log and tell me what you guys think. Here is the link I figured it out.
http://img709.imageshack.us/im...0.png


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Black01Jetta)*

Can one switch from a MAF file to MAF-less via Maestro? Or are you stuck with which every you choose from the start?
And if you choose MAF, can you rescale for different dia housing?


----------



## raceTT (Jun 4, 2009)

is there anyone with s3\tt225 from europe with maestro?
all fine or problems?
i have codes from vagcom and other problems....


----------



## Gus011 (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (raceTT)*

you're already using the meastro on your 225?? i am hoping to buy it for my bora 180 but still have to awaiti some feedback. What roblems have you got with the meastro on our euopean cars?


----------



## JuScRuZiN_b6 (Dec 6, 2008)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Can one switch from a MAF file to MAF-less via Maestro? Or are you stuck with which every you choose from the start?
And if you choose MAF, can you rescale for different dia housing?

Pretty sure you can switch (think I remember seeing this in the settings). I'd check for you but I sent my cable out to Chris for a firmware update. Maybe someone else will chime in.


----------



## raceTT (Jun 4, 2009)

*Re: (Gus011)*

yes i am trying to use, there is only another try to do, with the original TB for see if the car goes fine, but over this there are the faults codes...
maybe there is a sort of incompatibility...


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

any of you guys have trouble actually flashing your ecu? Mine will not work. tried 20 times. everytime i get an error at a different stage of the license flash. it seems though it only communicates with the ecu when it wants.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Can one switch from a MAF file to MAF-less via Maestro? Or are you stuck with which every you choose from the start?
And if you choose MAF, can you rescale for different dia housing?

Yes you can switch the maf off
I never looked to see if rescaling is possible


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *halchka99* »_any of you guys have trouble actually flashing your ecu? Mine will not work. tried 20 times. everytime i get an error at a different stage of the license flash. it seems though it only communicates with the ecu when it wants.

what version do you have?


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_
what version do you have? 


you are referring to the cable?


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*

yes ,Have you tested the cable ? it should be ver 1.5




_Modified by VRT at 1:30 PM 1-8-2010_


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

i cant recall(im at work) but i think it needs to be updated(though chris said it should work wihtout the update) the cable works because i was able to grab my stock file and send it to chris, i also defeated the immob.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*

The newest version will have no conection errors. Mine worked (version 0.0) also but would once in awhile fail.


----------



## raceTT (Jun 4, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *halchka99* »_any of you guys have trouble actually flashing your ecu? Mine will not work. tried 20 times. everytime i get an error at a different stage of the license flash. it seems though it only communicates with the ecu when it wants.

with my car, now, works only at slow speed


----------



## MikeD86 (Jan 21, 2008)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (l88m22vette)*

bought mine today


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (jettaman18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jettaman18t* »_Please check out my log and tell me what you guys think. Here is the link I figured it out.
http://img709.imageshack.us/im...0.png 

do you have your maf pluggeed in? or are u not mafless? incorrect size maf housing?


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (coreyj)*

This is a Tapp Mafless file. Here is another log from tonight this shows some WOT pulls at 13 PSI (wastegate pressure). I feel like the car runs better and pulls harder at wastegate pressure then at 20psi because the afrs are better. Let me know what you guys think http://g.imagehost.org/downloa...taLog The WOT pull starts around Cell # 2556.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Ordering my maestro upgrade today. 
Whoo hoo!
Can't wait to get this thing running right.


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (l88m22vette)*

If anyone has tried opening up the maestro software today did it tell you to download the current version? Mine did. I've downloaded the current version and still the same message pops up when i try and open up maestro. Anyone else having these problems?


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

is there anyone in southern California with this on there car? id like to check it out first hand if possible.


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

ive got it on mine, just sent it out to get an updated on the cable though


----------



## Henni (May 14, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*

Time to sit down for some reading.


----------



## technician (Jun 29, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Henni)*

Checking the Eurodyne website it only shows 2001+ as supported vehicles







Is this correct or would it work on a 2000 AWD? I had left a message with the Co. but no reply yet. . .


----------



## MikeD86 (Jan 21, 2008)

hopefully mine will be in tomm.. been installing my BT last couple days


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: (MikeD86)*

So who has done the most flashing? More user testimonials please, how is everything working?


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (jettaman18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jettaman18t* »_This is a Tapp Mafless file. Here is another log from tonight this shows some WOT pulls at 13 PSI (wastegate pressure). I feel like the car runs better and pulls harder at wastegate pressure then at 20psi because the afrs are better. Let me know what you guys think http://g.imagehost.org/downloa...taLog The WOT pull starts around Cell # 2556. 

just add some fueling with the quick tune section of the flash suite, dont use the maestro part just yet. id had to adjust fueling also with the mafless file. add 10 to 15 points on fueling on all settings. secondary fueling is not that important but the other 2 are.


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (TooLFan46n2)*

Things are working well for me, I've flashed a good 10 times and no problems, and I've tweaked a bunch of random crap (I'm going to compile an actual list eventually) and could always feel a difference (for better or worse). I'm still learning, but I'm really hoping that the Help file to be released soon...


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (jettaman18t)*

same here maybe more


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

So does any documentation come with Maestro?
I really do not need it, but I am certainly curious as to what comes with it.
I have done enough with other standalone fuel injection to get through this and I am very familiar with the windows UI of course.
IF you can get through megatune, you can make it through anything


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (coreyj)*

Really? I was told to take fuel out because its getting way to much at idle and i believe its getting to much at WOT. I took about 10% out of idle warm up and 10% on increasing load. It seems to run a lot better and the idle doesn't stumble as much, and less black smoke at WOT. It definitely made a big difference and made the car run smoother. And my primary fuel is at 100%.


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

guys. where do I enter the key to use the software?


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

nm


----------



## croteh (Jan 16, 2010)

Does Maestro 7 work with the stock ECM?
if it does, would a really good tune with Maestro 7 with the stock ECU be better then getting a pre-tuned ECU like the one from GIAC?
Or could you even use the GIAC X+ with Maestro 7, and modify it so that it could be used with any parts from any company?


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: (croteh)*

all the info http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4522132


----------



## croteh (Jan 16, 2010)

*Re: (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*

thanks man


----------



## MikeD86 (Jan 21, 2008)

flashed my car today 630cc gt28rs... Car seems to run good.. occasional flutter on 3rd gear... only currently runing 10lbs motor should be built in about a week and cranking her to about 25.. file seems to run great though! cant wait to play in maestro!!!!!


----------



## MikeD86 (Jan 21, 2008)

Anyone think if i played with the fuel settings i could solve my issue of it chugging in 3rd gear? Im going to try to run some logs tonight... outside temps should be in the 40's..


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (MikeD86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MikeD86* »_Anyone think if i played with the fuel settings i could solve my issue of it chugging in 3rd gear? Im going to try to run some logs tonight... outside temps should be in the 40's..


You have everything you need now to solve any tune related problem unless it is hardware!
Yes!


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (MikeD86)*

Post your logs and we'll see whats up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif BTW, whats your setup?


----------



## MikeD86 (Jan 21, 2008)

Well i cant play with any settings or log anything when i goto open the Maestro Suite 7 i get a error message reguarding my cable... I emailed Chris tonight about it and i am anticipating a email from him soon so i can figure it all out...
Currently i am running: gt28rs(running boost pressure off the wastegate which is about 10 PSI, stock rods... will be upgraded in next couple weeks) 630CC injectors stock 3 Bar FPR, Water/Meth... car ran pretty strong tonight..Still the occasional chugging when i shift into 3rd but not as bad. Cant wait to play with the Maestro and have my rods so i can really give her some boost.. 







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by MikeD86 at 12:39 AM 1-20-2010_


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (MikeD86)*

Just a side note, I have the system with the same turbo kit you have but with 440's and at Tapp's dyno I made 300hp at 12-15psi


----------



## MikeD86 (Jan 21, 2008)

*Re: (VRT)*

Nice numbers man! i had 440s originally but decided to go with the 630s since i probably will be going to a GT30 series down the road...


----------



## Minimum40 (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: (MikeD86)*

Disclaimer: I know most of you will say to email or call Eurodyne to answer this question, but I thought I would try the fine folks here on the Vortex first.

I installed all the software and started to pull the ecu info to send to Tapp, but it says connection timed out everytime I read the ecu. I saw in the 1st post that the OP enabled high speed data logging to emilinate this issue, but I don't see that option anywhere. Where is it?


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

there are a few checkboxes on the right side, make sure you have latest software to read ecu


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (Minimum40)*

There is no longer a slow/fast read option on the Flash software, Chris updated the program and there is a lot more stuff with the update. I will update my original thread post, I've just been really busy/lazy lately (damn you cabin fever!)


----------



## Minimum40 (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

Ok good to know. 
I will check to see if I have the latest update and try the scan again.


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

okay lets do this people. Real maestro logs. sick sample rate. 
boost








timing








Thanks to this good sample rate, it's clear to me that the rpms are jumping around up top. Either that or the gain is set too high on the boost controller? I wonder what would cause that?
Issues with the crank sensor would cause this you think?
This is pump gas only with little timing pull like -2.5 max.


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: (Lou_Y2mK5)*

How were you able to graph like this? I've been trying to figure it out.


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

Took the log data and made a graph in excel.


----------



## MikeD86 (Jan 21, 2008)

what measuring blocks are best to log.. wanna run some this wekend.. in the log viewer do i just click "maestro log"


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (MikeD86)*

Just log everything, then you can replay/view whatever values you want


----------



## storx (Dec 6, 2006)

*Re: (Lou_Y2mK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lou_Y2mK5* »_okay lets do this people. Real maestro logs. sick sample rate. 
boost








timing








Thanks to this good sample rate, it's clear to me that the rpms are jumping around up top. Either that or the gain is set too high on the boost controller? I wonder what would cause that?
Issues with the crank sensor would cause this you think?
This is pump gas only with little timing pull like -2.5 max.

Just to throw my 2 cents in there.. what rate spring are you running.. looks almost like your wastegate is having issues holding the preassure.. we had similar issues and had to upgrade the spring.. 
we switched from...
LG blue 1bar
to
LG green & SM red 1.3bar
this made our choppy 20psi pull completely straightened with no mods to the tune...











_Modified by storx at 2:41 AM 1-23-2010_


----------



## storx (Dec 6, 2006)

question is there a database to be access online when you have maestro to grab tunes from and save??
Like similar to HPtuners/EFIlive/PowerCommander.. where you submit a tune w/ mod details.. and the database server scans it for viruses and such and then databases it under which vehicle it was used on..
My buddy runs a Yamaha R1 engine in his Caterham and he was showing me when he logged into the powercommanderX site that there was like 4,000+ tunes for the R1 engine.. from people that uploaded them.. and he had about 40 of his own that he logged over the years from upgrades and such he had on there.. was really nice.. cause some tunes people attached screens shots of data logs showing how it performed on different octane fuel..


_Modified by storx at 2:48 AM 1-23-2010_


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: (storx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *storx* »_
Just to throw my 2 cents in there.. what rate spring are you running.. looks almost like your wastegate is having issues holding the preassure.. we had similar issues and had to upgrade the spring.. 
we switched from...
LG blue 1bar
to
LG green & SM red 1.3bar
this made our choppy 20psi pull completely straightened with no mods to the tune...








_Modified by storx at 2:41 AM 1-23-2010_

Thanks, I will keep this in mind. I'm running .9 bar large blue. When the rpms go up and down I also feel it in the steering wheel. I guess iif the bosst is osolating I would feel the same thing.


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

Hey I think you are on to something because I just did a few runs on the wg pressure alone with the controller off and it was smooth on the top end. 
I'm going to turn it back on but set the gain very low to see if it makes a dif.


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: (Lou_Y2mK5)*

Here is a zoom in rpm with boost where the osolation begins.








Gauge view with zoom below. I love this. Since I have a digital boost gauge it's hard to see it go up and down like a needle would. 








finally text view. 










_Modified by Lou_Y2mK5 at 3:31 PM 1-23-2010_


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Lou_Y2mK5)*

OH ya New update as of 1/20/10
please up load new upgrades http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (Lou_Y2mK5)*

Lou, post up a shot with timing, AFR, o2 correction, and WG action added to engine speed & boost http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by l88m22vette at 9:23 AM 1-24-2010_


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Has anyone here flashed their Tapp ecu and upgraded to Maestro with a 2 bank setup? Like the cruise control stalk race gas/pump gas switch setup?
I flashed my car and now the main bank wont run and the car will start on bank 2 which is an E85 tune or was and it runs like ****. 
I can't drive it like that and wont risk it.
Anyone else have these issues?


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Great also the center piece in the USB cable female recepticle broke off in my eurodyne dongle.
Guess what too? You can't open these to fix it or replace that because the torx are glued in and breakaway.
I'm becoming less and less happy with this product as time goes on.
My car is currently stuck in illinois and I have done nothing but follow the proper procedure.
I am not trying to look at or steal anything just fix what I paid for fair and square.
I have spent well over 1000$ now on this stuff with Eurodyne and problems.


_Modified by gdoggmoney at 11:32 AM 1-24-2010_


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

I've been having problems with my cable. Its so sensitive that if you move it slightly it will stop logging. Every time i've logged my car someone has to sit in my passenger seat and make sure the cable doesnt pop out. And every time I do a pull I think my leg touches the cable when i shift and causes it to stop logging. I wish the cable was at least a little longer or the end that plugs into the OBD2 port could be secured better. Incredible software but the cable should be a lot less sensitive.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (jettaman18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jettaman18t* »_I've been having problems with my cable. Its so sensitive that if you move it slightly it will stop logging. Every time i've logged my car someone has to sit in my passenger seat and make sure the cable doesnt pop out. And every time I do a pull I think my leg touches the cable when i shift and causes it to stop logging. I wish the cable was at least a little longer or the end that plugs into the OBD2 port could be secured better. Incredible software but the cable should be a lot less sensitive.


Yeah, I hope I do not have htat problem. I have not gotten that far yet, but I bumped my cable lightly and apparently the center USB pin guide broke....
So I have my cable put together and it works but I can not take it apart. Again I tried, because I can easily solder a new recepticle on, but I turned 1 torx to try and fix what I paid for and bam it ****ing broke.
In addition I am in IL, 800 miles from home and this procedure laid out to me via voice was followed to the T, and my car sits.
It runs on the Racegas map in bank 2 but i am in no way driving the car, because it refuses to rev and runs so rich it is trimming -25 fuel at idle. Which leads me to believe it is still the racegas map in bank 2, because when I flashed my license file onto the ECU I of course had the car running on bank 1, the 93 map.
So needless to say I am a little bit pissy, but I just want this to get resolved. I did nothing wrong and should not have any expectation of any issues with a flash that said it completed succesfully bricking my ECU, whether I am 800 miles from home or 1 mile from home, or AT home itself you know?


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

Haha that sounds like some complicated shiznit that you just posted, I tried to understand it but i'm still kind of a newbie. I'm sure you'll get it figured out though i'm hoping the same for myself. I'm just really tired of driving a car that runs like complete crap, especially when the solution to the problem is on my computer but have no clue of how to make it better.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (jettaman18t)*

As much as the OBD port gets used, a second should be added in a more convenient spot. I believe it's only 3 wires that's needed.


----------



## storx (Dec 6, 2006)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_As much as the OBD port gets used, a second should be added in a more convenient spot. I believe it's only 3 wires that's needed. 

Or hook up a cable.. hide it in the dash and run it to like the glovebox or something.. then you can can use a hub to plug more then 1 cable in..i run a 7" laptop with magnet setup that sits on the dash running vagcom while i drive.. i like to know how my car is running when i have so much invested in it..


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_Great also the center piece in the USB cable female recepticle broke off in my eurodyne dongle.
Guess what too? You can't open these to fix it or replace that because the torx are glued in and breakaway.
I'm becoming less and less happy with this product as time goes on.

I am not trying to look at or steal anything just fix what I paid for fair and square.
I have spent well over 1000$ now on this stuff with Eurodyne and problems.

_Modified by gdoggmoney at 11:32 AM 1-24-2010_

So you broke the receptacle, don't know how you can do that with really hitting it with your leg.








Then you decided to take it upon yourself to try and open it. Instead of contacting your sales person. 
You have some nerve to blame eurodyne.
PS: the cable is 6' long any longer you can read it in the trunk


_Modified by VRT at 5:14 PM 1-24-2010_


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

is there anyone running a non OE size AKA larger throttle body on there car and using maestro 7 to tune there car?


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_
So you broke the receptacle, don't know how you can do that with really hitting it with your leg.








Then you decided to take it upon yourself to try and open it. Instead of contacting your sales person. 
You have some nerve to blame eurodyne.
PS: the cable is 6' long any longer you can read it in the trunk

_Modified by VRT at 5:14 PM 1-24-2010_


Try putting the cable in it and bump it, you can break the center plastic guide off quite easily. You leg bumps the cable, it applies upward pressure, the plastic center piece which keeps the pins bound breaks.
Hey look at that smart man, why would the dongle be plugged in without the USB cable?

And yes I wanted to replace the recepticle, and fix this unit with a 2.00$ USB plug, you know something any retard with a soldering iron can do.

So I am supposed to contact a sales guy to solder something into a dongle I bought?
Do you contact your dealership everytime you need your oil changed?
And yes i blame Eurodyne for the fact I flashed my car 100% to their instructions, and my ECU is now dead. 
Care to try and nutswing or play it off some other way, or try to distort facts?
Just because you are a little too tarded to operate a soldering iron, and maybe chew bubble gum while walking does not mean some of us can not.
And again I bought this unit, I paid for this dongle so I should be able to fix it. 
Or I guess I could be passive and wait and beg plead to have someone ship me another one, possibly pay out of pocket for another, have no ability to use maestro since the dongle has encryption logic built in and is tied/key'd to the tune and eurodyne flash.

So you want to try that interpretation again smart guy? Or are you going to try and rationalize some more problems into being ok somehow?


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

im sorry you had bad luck^^


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (l88m22vette)*

someone please tell me which fuel map compensates or allows you to adjust for bigger injectors?


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (jettaman18t)*

That is probably going to be your fuel injector constant. Ask Chris what it is measured in, because I do not know yet myself.

Once I do if you do not I will let you know. 

You also have to remember if you are not using the exact injector specified for the tune, the characteristics are potentially TOTALLY different so you can't just swap 1000cc for any 1000cc or 840cc for 830cc. 

/* Edit */
The other thing you can do, is calculate the theoretical flow difference between the injectors for your tune and what you have, then tune down or up your fueling tables by that differential value.
This way, you can scale your fuel maps accordingly. This is not 100% accurate but will work ok enough.
Thanks CoreyJ. It is looking to get resolved by Chris. I have gone through some pains to assure him I have been doing the procedures exactly as told and trying to provide potentially helpful feedback to keep someone else from having these issues.
It is of course my own dumbass fault my leg bumped the cable hard enough to crack the plastic center guide, but mistakes happen, it is cramped there and I am not exactly a small guy.
We will see what happens. Hopefully this can be resolved here, otherwise I am going to get home somehow without my GTi so I can get to work wednesday









Maybe I could hitch hike. That used to be a national past time. 


_Modified by gdoggmoney at 11:12 AM 1-25-2010_


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Flashed the car again and it works. 
Thanks to Chris Tapp and Arnold at Pagparts.

If you have a dual tune ECU, definitely plan on a just in case scenario and have some time and a place. 
The second flash went perfect however. 
Looks like no Chevy Astro van drive home to MD from IL!


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

So you calmed down and took my advise


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_So you calmed down and took my advise

I of course was going to contact them, but hey I get pissy too, I am human.

This is also really only an issue with dual table ecu's and I was told I was the first person in the field to do this with a dual table ECU.
So I was sort of a beta tester in a way. It was tested, but you know. 
Like I told Chris and Arnold, I work with machines that have such a memory density where we get bit flips in memory and the memory has an exact copy it checks, we have to remedy this beyond a certain threshold of errors... so I understand **** happens with technology and that could have EASILY happened during a flash somehow even if the ECU is shielded very well. This could be a solar flare, random entropy whatever, it happens. 
Plus, you need to understand something about me. I want to do it myself, I do not want to bug people and ask questions, because really I KNOW both Tapp and Arnold have much bigger fish to fry and more **** to do than handhold me.
Why I wanted to replace a 2.00$ USB connector myself, avoid shipping, time lost for all of us etc. But no worries, I am just going to epoxy the USB end in and if it fails I will bug Chris to key me up a new cable and do the crypto magic for my stuff.



_Modified by gdoggmoney at 1:27 PM 1-25-2010_


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_
I of course was going to contact them, but hey I get pissy too, I am human.

This is also really only an issue with dual table ecu's and I was told I was the first person in the field to do this with a dual table ECU.
So I was sort of a beta tester in a way. It was tested, but you know. 
Like I told Chris and Arnold, I work with machines that have such a memory density where we get bit flips in memory and the memory has an exact copy it checks, we have to remedy this beyond a certain threshold of errors... so I understand **** happens with technology and that could have EASILY happened during a flash somehow even if the ECU is shielded very well. This could be a solar flare, random entropy whatever, it happens. 
Plus, you need to understand something about me. I want to do it myself, I do not want to bug people and ask questions, because really I KNOW both Tapp and Arnold have much bigger fish to fry and more **** to do than handhold me.
Why I wanted to replace a 2.00$ USB connector myself, avoid shipping, time lost for all of us etc. But no worries, I am just going to epoxy the USB end in and if it fails I will bug Chris to key me up a new cable and do the crypto magic for my stuff.
_Modified by gdoggmoney at 1:27 PM 1-25-2010_

To be fair, you're not that pissy when I talk to you. We discussed, divided, conquered. In the end, a working ecu is all we're after http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

Sure were all human.
Very person who has purchased a Maestro 7 wants to do it themselves. That is the whole reason we all purchased this unit. But you'll find Chris to be very understanding and willing to help in most cases. 
I have dealt with Chris and his boys for over 15 years- good peoples
I also have the 2 files on my ecu but have not made a switch system like you have. I only reload the program from Race to tuner file when I hit the track.
Good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
P.S. We are breaking ground here with this tuner on VW's. There is going to be hiccups


_Modified by VRT at 4:45 PM 1-25-2010_


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (l88m22vette)*

Does anyone know what to change the injector constant number to, to work with 840cc injectors? Chris told me to lower it. I started at 385 and lowered it to 380. I really need some help here this software is extremely confusing and my car still runs like crap. I'm almost ready to pay for someone to fly out here and help me besides spending hundreds of dollars on 034 to help me. I've spent more then $1400 dollars with chris, my car isn't gonna run perfect on its own my car needs to be in the hands of someone whos willing to spend a lot of time on it. PLEASE SOMEONE HELP.


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

It would be cool to get a live session and let Chris control Maestro on your laptop. wut that would be badddass.


----------



## Minimum40 (Jun 6, 2006)

For those of you that have this, how long did it take Eurodyne to email the tune to you after you sent them the ECU file?


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Minimum40)*

Usually 12hrs


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_Lou, post up a shot with timing, AFR, o2 correction, and WG action added to engine speed & boost http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by l88m22vette at 9:23 AM 1-24-2010_

Okay back to tuning, hard data, and advice








I can't really overlay all those since they are in too big of a range difference. 
Here is O2 Correction and Timing Advance








Here is O2 Correction and Requested AFR








Engine Load vs 02. 








Engine Load spec vs actual. 








I can't get WG duty since I'm not using N75. 


_Modified by Lou_Y2mK5 at 7:09 PM 1-25-2010_


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

i got this when i tried to log some data.
error: high speed logging is not currently available for this ecu


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Does this do everything my Vag_com does? Does it read fault codes as well? Can I sell my Vag cable once I receive my Maestro?


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (jwalker1.8)*

It reads/deletes DTCs but it cannot do things like programming your window...


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Ok, I give a **** about the little tricks with the FOB and stuff like that...That said, do I keep it or sell it? I assume it does the TB adaptation?


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (jwalker1.8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwalker1.8* »_Ok, I give a **** about the little tricks with the FOB and stuff like that...That said, do I keep it or sell it? I assume it does the TB adaptation?

I did not see any place to do a TBA in Maestro.


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Lou_Y2mK5)*

These features are all in the works. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Minimum40 (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (16plus4v)*

3 days and still no tune from Eurodyne. Guess I will be calling tomorrow.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

give em a call dude, seems to speed things up... also, figured out my above question. you cant log anything until you get a tune from eurodyne. also they will only send you one tune, not multiple


----------



## TTime (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (derekb727)*

Going to Tapp's to pick up my 1000cc file today







Can't wait to get try r out.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (jwalker1.8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwalker1.8* »_Does this do everything my Vag_com does? Does it read fault codes as well? Can I sell my Vag cable once I receive my Maestro?

related question?
Does VAG-COM still retain all it's functionality on a Maestro tuned ECU?


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

yes it does, was using both just last night


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (l88m22vette)*

Is there a way to do a Throttle Body Alignment on Maestro?


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (jettaman18t)*

No. Do the hood open and door open deal or use vag-com.


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (gdoggmoney)*

How do you do that?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Whatever you do- do NOT unplug the cable in the middle of flashing.


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Whatever you do- do NOT unplug the cable in the middle of flashing.









Lol!


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

I got my foot wrapped up in one and accidentally pulled it out. It locks the ecu out, you can't do anything until you get chris to make you a special recovery file. So, don't do that.


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i wondered when this would happen. at least its recoverable http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (velocity196)*


_Quote, originally posted by *velocity196* »_i wondered when this would happen. at least its recoverable http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Yeah, it is. I have been 9 ways to sunday with Maestro so far.
It sucks you have to bug chris everytime, but I can understand wanting to protect his work with heavy encryption so I will just bug the crap out of him.


----------



## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

*FV-QR*

I'm sorry if I missed it but is there live data tracing or log replay tracing for ease of tuning load cells?


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (TSTARKZ123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TSTARKZ123* »_I'm sorry if I missed it but is there live data tracing or log replay tracing for ease of tuning load cells?

yes. It's awesome


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Lou_Y2mK5)*

Can anyone confirm that misfire detection is still operable with a Maestro tuned ECU?
VAG-COM mblock 014-016 (AWP).
Thanks,
Rey


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Can anyone confirm that misfire detection is still operable with a Maestro tuned ECU?
VAG-COM mblock 014-016 (AWP).
Thanks,
Rey

there is an option to turn it on and off


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (coreyj)*

Cool. But why would you want to turn it off?


----------



## 4bagels (Feb 10, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*

I'm guessing if you had a lumpy cam you might want to suppress it so the check engine light and codes wouldn't always come up?


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (4bagels)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4bagels* »_I'm guessing if you had a lumpy cam you might want to suppress it so the check engine light and codes wouldn't always come up?
 
Exactly. or if your like me and have doodie idle from im assuming rather large injectors.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (coreyj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *coreyj* »_ 
Exactly. or if your like me and have doodie idle from im assuming rather large injectors. 

I have perfect idle with 1000cc injectors on a Tapp ECU


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_
I have perfect idle with 1000cc injectors on a Tapp ECU


i also have tapp. must be something else i cant put my finger one then. everything has less than 5k on it.
at idle i watch the injector ms time fluctuate up and down and that correlates to the rpm going up and down


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

I'm running the Meastro software with my BAT setup... The car has been running for about two weeks now, and I've almost got 500 miles on the fresh motor. I just installed a wideband gauge to monitor my AFR. I have noticed that I am running on the lean side of things according to my gauge...
For those with experience tuning with maestro7... on what map should I begin to make my fueling tweaks?
I also suspect that my "calculated air-flow" at the throttle plate may be a little off since I'm running cams.
If necessary... I can post some logs.


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: (2literA2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_I'm running the Meastro software with my BAT setup... The car has been running for about two weeks now, and I've almost got 500 miles on the fresh motor. I just installed a wideband gauge to monitor my AFR. I have noticed that I am running on the lean side of things according to my gauge...
For those with experience tuning with maestro7... on what map should I begin to make my fueling tweaks?
I also suspect that my "calculated air-flow" at the throttle plate may be a little off since I'm running cams.
If necessary... I can post some logs.

i also used to run lean with maestro. had super high egt's like over 1800f at time. then i added 10 points in the primary fuel enrichment. and all is well never see over 1500f.

just add fuel with the settings on the flash program. dont used the maestro part unless your 100% sure how to do it.


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

Next question:
Why would you want to have the following diagnostics disabled?
1)	Diagnostics setting enabled: Cam Timing Fault Detection
2)	Diagnostics setting enabled: Cam Timing Fault Detection 2
3)	Diagnostics setting enabled: Cam Timing output stage Fault Detection


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (coreyj)*

I will try that tonight when I leave work... do you remember which flash description it was that you added fuel to?


----------



## 4bagels (Feb 10, 2009)

*Re: (2literA2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_Next question:
Why would you want to have the following diagnostics disabled?
1)	Diagnostics setting enabled: Cam Timing Fault Detection
2)	Diagnostics setting enabled: Cam Timing Fault Detection 2
3)	Diagnostics setting enabled: Cam Timing output stage Fault Detection


Will the engine run with the cam sensor disconnected? If so, sounds like the ECU will switch to a different mode for spark (fires twice as often with one wasted spark), and a different mode for fuel (either pulses twice as often (with half the duration), or pulses all injectors simultaneously (with a quarter of the duration)). I've never tried it though, but if that worked you could suppress the check engine light/codes with those settings.
Again, another guess (sorry).


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (coreyj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *coreyj* »_

i also have tapp. must be something else i cant put my finger one then. everything has less than 5k on it.
at idle i watch the injector ms time fluctuate up and down and that correlates to the rpm going up and down

I had issues with the 1000's being too big, and when I went to 630cc the idle stumbles, hesitations and rich/lean swings were completely gone.
I have a 3071R with 2" intercooler piping and a small port manifold on a large port head.
Basically my motor did not like 1000's. But 630's are definitely fine to idle with, I tested those injectors to less than 1ms and they did not dribble, and were exceptional all over at various pulsewidths.


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: (2literA2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_Next question:
Why would you want to have the following diagnostics disabled?
1)	Diagnostics setting enabled: Cam Timing Fault Detection
2)	Diagnostics setting enabled: Cam Timing Fault Detection 2
3)	Diagnostics setting enabled: Cam Timing output stage Fault Detection


idk.. maybe if you wanted to run dual adjustable cam gears?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_
I had issues with the 1000's being too big, and when I went to 630cc the idle stumbles, hesitations and rich/lean swings were completely gone.
I have a 3071R with 2" intercooler piping and a small port manifold on a large port head.
Basically my motor did not like 1000's. But 630's are definitely fine to idle with, I tested those injectors to less than 1ms and they did not dribble, and were exceptional all over at various pulsewidths.

That's odd... I have 630's and I'm having idle surge issues on the base tune!


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_
I had issues with the 1000's being too big, and when I went to 630cc the idle stumbles, hesitations and rich/lean swings were completely gone.
I have a 3071R with 2" intercooler piping and a small port manifold on a large port head.
Basically my motor did not like 1000's. But 630's are definitely fine to idle with, I tested those injectors to less than 1ms and they did not dribble, and were exceptional all over at various pulsewidths.

I believe your turbo was the problem. It doesn't flow enought air to support 1000's. 
It's like putting 650's on a ko3


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_
I believe your turbo was the problem. It doesn't flow enought air to support 1000's. 
It's like putting 650's on a ko3









No, the turbo is fine. 1000's are great at the 30% duty cycle and all that. THe minimal idle pulsewidth and characteristics of the injector were the problem. I was not moving enough air at idle and off idle conditions to avoid swinging the pulsewidth too low to their dribble point, and I would get issues.

And 630's on a K03 is great . I did that and ran E85 daily for well over a year.


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*spelling*

Everyone with tuning experience or questions, Eurodyne has a forum just for this...
http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/index.php
It would sure be nice to have some of the detailed tuning questions asked and answered there. That way individual questions could be answered in seperate posts, and are easily searchable.
Just a thought...


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_
No, the turbo is fine. 1000's are great at the 30% duty cycle and all that. THe minimal idle pulsewidth and characteristics of the injector were the problem. I was not moving enough air at idle and off idle conditions to avoid swinging the pulsewidth too low to their dribble point, and I would get issues.

And 630's on a K03 is great . I did that and ran E85 daily for well over a year.

Maybee different from a 1.8 to a 2.0 ?
Please share the brand of these injectors for the world to know. 
Because my high z bosch works wonders. 
http://www.etatuning.com/bosch....html


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

Just a quick update...
Compared my 630cc and Lou's 1000cc base maps.. and this what I found:
Timing:
Pump gas timing SAME
Timing correction for air temp SAME
Min timing during converter heating SAME
Minimum timing SAME
Timing vs coolant temp SAME
Ignition coil dwell vs voltage SAME
Ignition coil dwell vs load SAME
Knock correction, initial SAME
Fueling:
Load correction DIFFERENT
Main fuel correction DIFFERENT (1000cc FILE HAS NO CORRECTIONS... 630cc FILE IS CORRECTED)
Alpha N DIFFERENT (ONLY DIFFERENCE IS 100.01 ROW... 1000cc FILE HAS LARGER NUMBERS)
Injection correction DIFFERENT (600cc FILE HAS SLIGHTLY LARGER NUMBERS)
Drivers wish SAME
Acceleration fuel (Lou... you didn't send me this map)
Decceleration fuel SAME
Injector constant DIFFERENT(1000cc = 310, 630cc = 433)
Constant for fuel consumption gauge SAME (255)
EGT threshold for full load lambda SAME
Battery voltage compensation DIFFERENT
Full load lambda DIFFERENT
Warmup fuel correction DIFFERENT
Flowmeter (NOT EDITABLE)
This should give some people out there an idea of what maps are affected by a fuel injector change.


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: (2literA2)*

Good info


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (16plus4v)*

Ok... I'll bite. Here is a log file from the other day. It includes start-up, a couple mild pulls, and cool down.
Any advice on where to start looking into changes?
http://cid-865522d961e147dd.sk...g.csv


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (2literA2)*

Anyone.... Anyone...


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

are none of the shops doing any tuning with the maestro up in cincy?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (derekb727)*

None that I know of...
There aren't any real european car tuners in the immedate Cincinnati area. There are performance shops that do good work, just no tuners.
The shops I know of use other companies. For instance, "R Style" performance uses VAST in Michigan to do their tuning.
I'd like to learn how to tune... then I can start my own business in the area!!! I'm already starting the research...


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

ohh i new there were a couple shops in the area i jus figured they did tuning as well. id like to learn how to do some tuning as well but it jus seems way over my level right now. maybe once you get some time under your belt you can help me with mine>>> lol


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

is anyone having problems getting there base files? ive sent him 2 emails and a phone call and have yet to receive mine. first email on the 3rd? and a phone call today.


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

he was super prompt with sending me what i needed including returning my cable


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (derekb727)*

He has been super prompt with me as well... even right now. He has been trying to figure out why my Maestro software won't allow me to reflash my ECU. I was able to load the base file, but since the cable firmware upgrade and a couple software upgrades, I haven't been able to flash a single thing. The software keeps telling me that my "license not valid for this vehicle". 
Weird stuff...


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

well i hope to get my soon so i can get back to driving my car. good to hear that others are having good success though. maybe its just a lil fluke


----------



## Minimum40 (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: (derekb727)*

I actually sent two emails to tapp for my file and waited a week or so for my base file. I never got an email response so I just called. Two days later I had my file. 
I have since sent 2 emails looking for an update to getting my Maestro working and have had no response for a week. Looks like I need to make another call to Canada.
Kind of discerning that they don't respond to email. I know they are probably just busy, but I don't think it should take more than a week to respond to an email.
I would suggest to keep calling. Your chances of talking with someone is much more likely over the phone than via email from my experience.
Love the tune so far though.


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (Minimum40)*

To be honest... I'm not sure who else fields calls/emails concerning Maestro other than Chris himself. I imagine the release of this software has made him quite a busy man!


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

ohh im sure that he is swamped. but like previously said i dont think it should take 7+ days to respond with an email. something like, "im working on your base file and hope to get it to you shortly, thanks" would be alot better than jus waiting around for nothing...sadly


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

i will hopefully have mine hear soon


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*

Can I check fault codes on other cars with this?


----------



## dubtec (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Lou_Y2mK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lou_Y2mK5* »_
I did not see any place to do a TBA in Maestro. 


open the logger, enter block 060, click "switch to basic settings" 
and it will perform the adaptation.


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (dubtec)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubtec* »_
open the logger, enter block 060, click "switch to basic settings" 
and it will perform the adaptation. 

Those sound like VAG-COM instructions... not Maestro.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (jwalker1.8)*

Don't think so

_Quote, originally posted by *jwalker1.8* »_Can I check fault codes on other cars with this?


----------



## dubtec (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (2literA2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_
Those sound like VAG-COM instructions... not Maestro.

block 060 is block 060, it's not vag-com instructions. it's me7 instructions. try it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (dubtec)*

I understand that... but we don't have the same logging interface as VAG-COM, so there is no switch to basic settings in our software.


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (2literA2)*

I'VE GOT SOME VERY IMPORTANT NEWS!!!
I spoke with Eurodyne (Chris) and was asking about additional maps other than the selection we've been given. His response was that he can add whatever maps we need into the software! Talk about flexibility!!!
This is probably the coolest thing possible.
He also mentioned that future revisions will contain "tuning aides" to guide you down the right path when tuning your vehicle.
He also mentioned... for all current Maestro owners, that an update to the Maestro software will be up on their website in the next few days (which will contain my fix so I can flash again). http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (2literA2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_I'VE GOT SOME VERY IMPORTANT NEWS!!!
I spoke with Eurodyne (Chris) and was asking about additional maps other than the selection we've been given. His response was that he can add whatever maps we need into the software! Talk about flexibility!!!
This is probably the coolest thing possible.
He also mentioned that future revisions will contain "tuning aides" to guide you down the right path when tuning your vehicle.
He also mentioned... for all current Maestro owners, that an update to the Maestro software will be up on their website in the next few days (which will contain my fix so I can flash again). http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

tooooo cool! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I just dropped off my powertapp cable at the post office for firmware update.... finally LOL


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (2literA2)*

Chris is very responsive to customers requests. Example some asked for a 2 step option added to Maestro and he is in the final stages of having it added in and these are new features that are free to any Maestro user. How can you not want one. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I bet Uni will charge for every new feature. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Henni (May 14, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (VRT)*

So far Uni doesn't want the end user to have full control of the settings. When the time comes the amount of support for this product has already sealed the deal for me to get it.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Henni)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Henni* »_So far Uni doesn't want the end user to have full control of the settings. When the time comes the amount of support for this product has already sealed the deal for me to get it. 


See my sig. Standalone is not an option with emissions. I have had a bunch of issues with Maestro and it is still worth it.
Once I dig my vehicle out and fix some wiring I am going to get back to tuning. It is covered in like 5ft of snow right now.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_Chris is very responsive to customers requests. * Example some asked for a 2 step option added to Maestro * and he is in the final stages of having it added in and these are new features that are free to any Maestro user. How can you not want one. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I bet Uni will charge for every new feature. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
 

when should this be available ?


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (derekb727)*

I think it's in the test faze. Marc-Andre from Autoxtrem will probably be the test bunny. 
It is always recommended to look at your eurodyne download page for new upgrades at least once a month orat least this page. LOL


----------



## autoxtrem (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (VRT)*

Yeah are season relies on the 2 step and Chris is working hard at it to get a real 2step working on our dragcar seen here, our car will fire up mid next week so when it's ready the car will be towed and results will follow


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (autoxtrem)*

just pulled the trigger... looking forward to picking this thread apart and finding some combinations for my setup. 
question, do most of you just create 1 tune and go with it or are you guys making multiple tunes for mutiple scenarios?


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (autoxtrem)*

How To – Perform a Throttle Body Adaptation
If your car is idling poorly, has recently been reflashed, or the battery has been disconnected, you may need to perform a Throttle Body Adaptation.
Step 1 – Connect your Powertap Tuning Cable to your computer and plug it into your vehicle’s OBDII port. Open the Eurodyne Flash Client software. Turn your Key to the ‘On’ position but do not start your car.
*** The Eurodyne Flash Client and Maestro 7 Tuning Suite are updated frequently, make sure you are running the most recent software versions to ensure your cable functions properly.***
Step 2 – Open the ‘Measuring Blocks’ feature from the dashboard of the Eurodyne Flash Client. 








In the block selection field on the left hand side of the screen enter ‘60’, then select ‘Switch to basic settings’.








The words ‘ADAPT RUN’ will appear in the Status field of the measuring blocks while the throttle body adaptation is taking place.
















When the status field reads ‘OK’, select ‘Switch to measuring blocks’ and you’re done!


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

It appears I stand corrected... Good work with the write up!


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (2literA2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_It appears I stand corrected... Good work with the write up!

Can't take credit for that... http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewforum.php?f=20


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

*Re: (derekb727)*

i cant wait for 2 step







what other injector files are you guys running, gonna be stepping higher than 630. whats next..?


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

*Re: (VW1990CORRADO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW1990CORRADO* »_i cant wait for 2 step







what other injector files are you guys running, gonna be stepping higher than 630. whats next..?

what about no lift shift and gear dependent boost?


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (VW1990CORRADO)*

I have 2 files my jetta 440 and my corrado 1000


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

*Re: (derekb727)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekb727* »_
what about no lift shift and gear dependent boost?

no lift would be nice, i wont be using the gear dependent as i am not using the n75.


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

im running the 1000cc with 1200cc injectors


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*

what brand 1000cc injectors are you guys running for a fancy spray pattern?


----------



## autoxtrem (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (VW1990CORRADO)*

we have ran 1000cc and also ID2000cc file with maestro7 so your fueling is covered for whatever hp you want to make with this software, more whp coming on stock ecu very soon so far 715WHP should break 800whp with the bosch ecu.


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

so im running the 1000cc file with 1200s and my idle is pig rich.. in the 11's.... what would be the proper adjustment to lessen the fuel at idle?
Ive been messing around with some of the fuel settings but i dont see much change


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

*Re: (VW1990CORRADO)*

prolle far fetch but wonder if there would be a way to use the aem truboost in place for the n75 for gear/rpm dependent boost


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (jwalker1.8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwalker1.8* »_
Can't take credit for that... http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewforum.php?f=20

Wow, they were just posted yesterday. I was asking Chris about this on the 10th, wondering if/when he was going to have someone support the Eurodyne forum. He mentioned having someone helping him with "How To's" to be added to the forum.
Looks like a great start!


----------



## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *autoxtrem* »_we have ran 1000cc and also ID2000cc file with maestro7 so your fueling is covered for whatever hp you want to make with this software, more whp coming on stock ecu very soon so far 715WHP should break 800whp with the bosch ecu. 


Hey Marc, was your car ever tuned on pump gas or anything lower than the ELF 124octane ( I think thats what you run)? If so, would your base map be available for those running the same injectors?


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*

Have you checked your primary o2? I know my idle was really rich when my o2 sensor went out. I'm trying to solve a rich issue myself at idle and wot. I'm stumped i've checked pretty much every possible thing that could cause a problem.


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (jettaman18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jettaman18t* »_Have you checked your primary o2? I know my idle was really rich when my o2 sensor went out. I'm trying to solve a rich issue myself at idle and wot. I'm stumped i've checked pretty much every possible thing that could cause a problem.









Are you running a MAF or MAF-less file?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

Notice... new Eurodyne software revisions should be up and available later today!


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *jettaman18t* »_Have you checked your primary o2? I know my idle was really rich when my o2 sensor went out. I'm trying to solve a rich issue myself at idle and wot. I'm stumped i've checked pretty much every possible thing that could cause a problem.










naw 02 is brand new... its def because of the 1200cc's on a 1k file. i just need to figure out which adjustment to work with.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

You guys may not be moving enough air to idle with 1000's or 1200's. My tune was the same as everyones but when I moved to 630cc my problems went away.
Injectors start getting dribbley at certain very low pulsewidths and if your ECU requests that to idle at a certain AFR target it's going to swing rich/lean and stutter, have on/off idle issues etc.
Unless you *NEED* 1000's for your HP level, jump down to 63lb or 72lb ish injectors.
Just because the tapp 1000cc program runs great on 200+ cars does not mean that it will run great on yours, and you may not have any hardware problems. 
Then again I discovered my adaptive O2 was broken for some reason, that could have helped the situation.... but I would expect it to idle fine without it. 



_Modified by gdoggmoney at 9:14 AM 2-12-2010_


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

agreed
large stroker kits
large T/B, cams etc... would work for the 1000's


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

ive got the hardware, bullseye s362, catcam 52's SEM intake manifold 80mm throttle body


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *halchka99* »_ive got the hardware, bullseye s362, catcam 52's SEM intake manifold 80mm throttle body


SMall port, or big port and standard displacement?
Is your adaptive fueling working?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

Don't be so sure 630's will solve your issue... I should be running 1000cc, but currently have 630's in my car. It seeks at idle, bouncing back and forth between rich and lean.
I believe the problem to be 1) I'm MAF-less and 2) my air flow is much greater now than before (stroked w/ cams).
First, due to the MAF-less setup, the ECU now only has a table to reference (Alpha-N) to determine how much air is expected at a given load and RPM. Whereas, before it could constantly reference the MAF signal to translate exact amounts of air mass entering the engine. So, now my Alpha-N table is completely wrong since air flow is now no longer near what stock was. And the computer thinks is getting less air than what is actually entering the engine causing the initial lean condition.. however my O2 pick up on this and corrects. once corrected, the O2 picks up a good mix and removes the correction... and back down it goes lean again. The cycle repeats.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (2literA2)*

It sounds like you haven't make a correction for the larger displacment and air flow. 
You can switch the system back to maf if you like. It's just a quick switch.


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_

SMall port, or big port and standard displacement?
Is your adaptive fueling working?


big port... i havent screwed around with it all that much, car is still on jackstands but what i did adjust via eurodyne flash didnt do anything at idle. 
I lowered the primary fuel, warm up fuel and secondary with not much change


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_It sounds like you haven't make a correction for the larger displacment and air flow. 
You can switch the system back to maf if you like. It's just a quick switch. 

Im actually debating this... should help with low end drivability issues. The problem is that I would need a larger MAF since my turbo inlet is 4in. Then I'd have to figure out intake plumbing to get laminar flow thru the sensor to obtain acurate readings. Not to mention, I have to buy more parts...
I have played with the Alpha-N table with good results so far... I'm going to keep stabbing at it for now.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

cable came today gotta run down to the parents to pick it up and then somehow get ahold of chris tapp to get my stuff to download


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

got my cable today and sent in my read file


----------



## leospeedworkseng (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*

Anyone with AEB tried this already? Thanks


----------



## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (leospeedworkseng)*

i have been skimming alot of posts lately because i am either going with maestro or unitronic software with my new setup.(tubular top mount,3071r) and i notice that alot of maestro users seem to have idle issues. 
is this common/expected and an easy fix?
i want to run 630cc file maffless and make around 375hp. i am wondering if a base tune from either company will be suitable or am i going to need some tuning??
thnx for any input.


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (vwturbowolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwturbowolf* »_i have been skimming alot of posts lately because i am either going with maestro or unitronic software with my new setup.(tubular top mount,3071r) and i notice that alot of maestro users seem to have idle issues. 
is this common/expected and an easy fix?
i want to run 630cc file maffless and make around 375hp. i am wondering if a base tune from either company will be suitable or am i going to need some tuning??
thnx for any input.

No idle issues here. 
99% of the time it's due to hardware issues or not flashing the car right. (Which was my case). 
Based on what you said, an "off the shelf" 630cc tune from either company will do you fine.


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Lou_Y2mK5)*

1k file mafless here. Purrrrfect idle and throttle response is awesome. I agree with most that hardware is usually at fault for idle issues.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (vwturbowolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwturbowolf* »_i have been skimming alot of posts lately because i am either going with maestro or unitronic software with my new setup.(tubular top mount,3071r) and i notice that alot of maestro users seem to have idle issues. 
is this common/expected and an easy fix?
i want to run 630cc file maffless and make around 375hp. i am wondering if a base tune from either company will be suitable or am i going to need some tuning??
thnx for any input.

Yeah all of my idle issues were hardware, except the rich issue was just too much injector I think. 
I'm fine on 630cc now.


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

too much injector, couldnt you just lean out the idle?


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*

anyone get an error 1024k me7 ecu not supported when trying to load a file into mestro? updated software and firmware


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *halchka99* »_anyone get an error 1024k me7 ecu not supported when trying to load a file into mestro? updated software and firmware


Yes, you need to load the base.tapp you are trying to load a file that is not compatible with the cryptography.
This is to keep you from running around giving everyone your tune









Also you can't lean out beyond a certain point or the injector will dribble, and act weird. THey have limits at the lower end which is why Uni is saying their 1200cc setup requires a 2.0l and more airflow at idle.

The eurodyne flash binary, Maestro Binary are both cryptographically key'd to your USB to serial dongle/converter. 
If you blow the dongle, you need to register the interface with eurodyne flash again, so it can send your nudie pictures back to Chris Tapp and he can hold them for ransom.
No I kid, but you do need to re-register it, there is a lot of cryptography going on under the hood of this product, which is why you have to bug the crap out of Chris when you have problems. 

My next step I apparently need another Maestro binary key'd to my new interface, eurodyne flash works great but Maestro will not recognize my new interface when attached.



_Modified by gdoggmoney at 7:21 PM 2-15-2010_


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

thank you for the reply, i didnt realize what file i was trying to load.
ya its running super super rich, to the point where my eyes are watering while driving the thing. i gotta mess around with maestro...
also anyone know what the setting instrument cluster error or something along those lines in maestro does? you can turn it off and on


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

anybody get the error when you try to open maestro:
LOCK SYSTEM
Your expiration date is reached! You need to purchase a license to run this software

anyone?


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (coreyj)*

Did you register the file? Email Eurodyne


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_Did you register the file? Email Eurodyne

turns out i just needed to update the software


----------



## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (coreyj)*

so i have one question:
my setup 3071 with 630cc injectors.
i been talking to al at pagparts and he said i would be happy with and off the shelf tune for my specifications.
question: couldnt i just get maestro and select the file for my setup and get the same thing


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (vwturbowolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwturbowolf* »_so i have one question:
my setup 3071 with 630cc injectors.
i been talking to al at pagparts and he said i would be happy with and off the shelf tune for my specifications.
question: couldnt i just get maestro and select the file for my setup and get the same thing

yes you can


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (vwturbowolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwturbowolf* »_so i have one question:
my setup 3071 with 630cc injectors.
i been talking to al at pagparts and he said i would be happy with and off the shelf tune for my specifications.
question: couldnt i just get maestro and select the file for my setup and get the same thing


Yeah. An off the shelf tune would do fine. It is up to you really, I want to eek out that extra 30whp or so and have control.
Realize in the off the shelf tunes they are tuned very safe so any vortex tard, including myself can do a lot without blowing them up. 
I know where I stand. I also am probably going up to a borg warner next yaer.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_

Yeah. An off the shelf tune would do fine. It is up to you really, I want to eek out that extra 30whp or so and have control.
Realize in the off the shelf tunes they are tuned very safe so any vortex tard, including myself can do a lot without blowing them up. 
I know where I stand. I also am probably going up to a borg warner next yaer.
 what borg warner you gonna move too?

alos, each time you make a change to a file and want to reflash do you have to email it to eurodyne first?


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

im getting a lic not valid for this vehicle when i try to refash any ideas?


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

have you recevied the base file from chris yet? also there is a new version of the flash as of 2/12/10


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (halchka99)*

download latest version and follow these directions http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewforum.php?f=20


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

i have the latest and did what it said


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

so whats the update on the launch control


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_so whats the update on the launch control


spoke to chris friday and he said he was dedicating a lot of time to it this week


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

that would be awsome i wonder if that'll be a free upgrade or pay for it


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

it better be free!!!! maybe a no lift shift?


----------



## vert1 (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (vwturbowolf)*

We run a 630cc maf-less file, smooth as silk idle 850rpm.
Don't notice any difference in idle from stock, extremely happy with our file.


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (vert1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vert1* »_We run a 630cc maf-less file, smooth as silk idle 850rpm.
Don't notice any difference in idle from stock, extremely happy with our file.

i have same thing but my idle is not so good. sound like i have a huge cam. but i dont.

in 2 years i havent been able to pin the cause of this issue and everything has changed. even rebuilt the whole bottom end and cylinder head, inj.,turbos, sensors ect..


----------



## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (coreyj)*

since i already have revo bt software on my ecu, do i have to have it deleted off the ecu to write this new software on.


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (halchka99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *halchka99* »_im getting a lic not valid for this vehicle when i try to refash any ideas?

I had the same issue and had to get Chris to send me a new license file.
You may just try reinstalling your original license file. If that doesn't work, give Chris a call.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (derekb727)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekb727* »_it better be free!!!! maybe a no lift shift? 

All upgrades are FREE


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (vwturbowolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwturbowolf* »_since i already have revo bt software on my ecu, do i have to have it deleted off the ecu to write this new software on.

You should be able to flash right over it...


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*



2literA2 said:


> I had the same issue and had to get Chris to send me a new license file.
> You may just try reinstalling your original license file. If that doesn't work, give Chris a call.
> [/quote
> yeah i tried reinstalling, didnt work. i sent him an email


----------



## 01AudiGuy (Mar 16, 2004)

I just got everything set up on my computer, I've got the most recent version of Maestro flash (v1.8.0), and my driver is updated (v1.11) and passes the cable test...BUT, when i try to read my ecu the program keeps saying communication failed! I've tried rebooting, still no luck. Turned of my antivirus/firewall, still no luck. Any ideas? I shot chris an email already. (2001 audi s4, H-box ecu)


----------



## Minimum40 (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: (01AudiGuy)*

Does it say something like connection timed out? I had to check one of the boxes on the right side of the screen to have mine not time out. I think it was the enable data loging box.


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

Silly question... but did you have the key in the "ON" position?


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

new update for the flash software!


----------



## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (halchka99)*

if i get the software now with my gt28 440cc setup is there a program for that, and when i change to gt3071 630cc setup could i just select the new file??


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (vwturbowolf)*

I have a 440 program w /meatro 7
No you have to make the changes for your new setup yourself.
You do not get another file from Eurodyne.


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (VRT)*

No, you do get another file, Chris will simply e-mail you the 630 file and you flash the car...


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (l88m22vette)*

really.. I'm surprised


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

I think you're mistaken... Chris will not be handing out free base tunes each time you change your setup. Hence the reason for having Maestro in the first place.


_Modified by 2literA2 at 8:16 PM 2-17-2010_


----------



## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (2literA2)*

i guess i will wait to change the software until i put the new turbo setup. although i could just put the 630cc injectors in and keep the gt28 until i get the 3071 setup done. i dont drive it that much anyway.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

can you control boost levels i flashed mine today... Im running a cts kit with a boost valve dual stage manual boost controller and before the flash i had it set at 15 psi and now after the new flash its spiking 20 psi which i do not want .. at least not yet.. the boost controllers high and low setting are almost all they way out.... is there anything that i can do through programming to turn it down or no


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

are you running the n75?


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

I had asked earlier if you can read fault codes on multiple cars...I tried it today on my friends 2002 A4 3.0 and it read and displayed the fault codes. It did take a little playing with it but it did work.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekb727* »_are you running the n75?



no n75 valve just boost valve dual stage boost controller...... it could also be when i set it it was 70 deg outside and now its 25deg


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_it could also be when i set it it was 70 deg outside and now its 25deg

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

i mean holy hell its like driving a whole new car again it rips beyond anything i thought it would... i have no CEL.. i even took it for a drive and would stop and shut down like after every 20 min to see if a cel would come on


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*

For you guys running the TAPP 630 file, what MAF would I use for this system. I'm currently using a TT MAF for my k04 software. I still have the stock MAF in the toolbox, should I hang onto it or will I need something other than what I have? ::I don't want to go MAFLESS::


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (TooLFan46n2)*

my mafless runs great!


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

not a single problem with my mafless


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (TooLFan46n2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TooLFan46n2* »_For you guys running the TAPP 630 file, what MAF would I use for this system. I'm currently using a TT MAF for my k04 software. I still have the stock MAF in the toolbox, should I hang onto it or will I need something other than what I have? ::I don't want to go MAFLESS::

why dont you wanna go mafless?


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (derekb727)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekb727* »_
why dont you wanna go mafless?

Why?
(1) I don't plan to outflow the housing
(2) because every person I have ever spoken to that writes software for cars say a MAF is more accurate
(3) Mine work fine
(4) Running a MAF tunes the mixture going into the engine, running MAFLESS off an o2 is soley making adjustments after the mixture is in the engine, defined by a estimation of how much air should be going in.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

your car runs off a MAP sensor as well....


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: (derekb727)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekb727* »_your car runs off a MAP sensor as well....

Not really , it merely uses the MAP sensor as a check and balance to make sure there is no pressure loss in the charge pipe system.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

so your saying that when the maf is written out the ecu relies on 02 readings only? i think it relies more on the map sensor to calibrate for fuel air mixture

""The manifold absolute pressure sensor provides instantaneous manifold pressure information to the engine's electronic control unit (ECU). The data is used to calculate air density and determine the engine's air mass flow rate, which in turn determines the required fuel metering for optimum combustion""
""MAP sensor data can be converted to air mass data using the speed-density method. Engine speed (RPM) and air temperature are also necessary to complete the speed-density calculation.""

_Modified by derekb727 at 9:49 PM 2-18-2010_


_Modified by derekb727 at 9:50 PM 2-18-2010_


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: (derekb727)*

Where did you pull that from? I understand what your saying I've never read/seen that VW ECM's adjust any type of fueling via MAP. Also I believe the OEM MAP maxes out at 22.5 psi?


_Modified by TooLFan46n2 at 1:02 AM 2-19-2010_


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

wiki, definition for a map sensor. it only adjusts via the map when the maf is deleted (written out via software) and yes the map sensor only reads up to 22.5 psi but maestro software is designed to account for the rest. 
also guys are running without the n75 if you didn't know that already


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

_Quote, originally posted by *TooLFan46n2* »_For you guys running the TAPP 630 file, what MAF would I use for this system.

I've heard that the OEM RS4 MAF would be plently big for my build (2.0 stroker w/ GT3076r). However, since this is a different MAF than stock, the scalars in the software would need to be adjusted on the software side to insure the readings provided equated to exactly the right amount of air mass entering the engine. This is something that only Chris would be able to answer.


_Quote, originally posted by *derekb727* »_...the map sensor only reads up to 22.5 psi but maestro software is designed to account for the rest.

It's actually not the Maestro software accounting for the added boost, it is just the natural way your ECU extrapolates data from the maps. Once a reading does off the scale, it calculaes based on other sensor inputs, and simply estimates where it thinks things (Fuel, timing, etc)should be.

Also, for the record... Im running MAFLESS and plan to run the N75 valve. Currently, with the 630cc injectors, the car runs like poop (more specifically at idle and immediate off-idle response). I do have a "non-standard" configuration, whereas I am running 2.0 stroker bottom, small port head and custom cams (intake & exhaust). Since I have no idea how much air mass is entering the motor at any given RPM, my Alpha-N table is incorrect and remains incorrect. I'm on my 6th revision of the Alpha-N table and still haven't got it right.
I am actually starting to contemplate going with back to a MAF now... drivability should be much improved since the motor will have a more accurate reading of air mass entering the motor. As well as deal with climate changes better. I live in Cincinnati, one day it could be sunny and 70, the next we could get a few inches of snow.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I have a laptop and a netbook does anyone know if i can load it on both and use the same file and what not 
also for those of you running a n75 valve with your maestro what type of settings do you have it at and for whaaat psi is it giving you

and how do you switch between pump n ras gas

someone needs to make a bible for this thing going over what each and everythign does on it...


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

ya you can use different computers on the same car. jus save the file on a thumb drive and switch it to the other computer. but you can only load the file to your ecu


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (TooLFan46n2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TooLFan46n2* »_
Why?
(1) I don't plan to outflow the housing
(2) because every person I have ever spoken to that writes software for cars say a MAF is more accurate
(3) Mine work fine
(4) Running a MAF tunes the mixture going into the engine, running MAFLESS off an o2 is soley making adjustments after the mixture is in the engine, defined by a estimation of how much air should be going in.


I was originally in the MAF camp, decided to go mafless for ease of use. Knowing how these ECU's work know that i have Maestro, I am back in MAF camp.
I have a pretty nasty exhaust leak to fix, I just found the manifold to turbine inlet is leaking at the top, if it is not the gasket the turbine housing is warped from an incident.
When cold the idle revs to 1100 then drops back down. 
I may just take all the exhaust hardware to my machine shop and have it all milled proper just because. I know it was straight before and I had no leaks before.


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (gdoggmoney)*

MAF FTW, I really do not see any advantage, you're taking away a part the automakers installed to make the cars better with a/f accuracy and mileage...a MAFless tune will run fine but I'd still argue you're leaving something on the table


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (l88m22vette)*

i am having the damndest time installing maestro and wondered if i am doing something wrong. when asked to copy and paste the code where does it go? the top block or the bottom? 
just got my file today and they are closed on weekends so i was wondering if anyone could help me solve loading this before monday
i keep getting code does not match, certain features disabled errors but im coyping the code sent to me directly from chris.
help veterans.... help

ffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuu
just saw in the help that i need to email eurodyne upon this error so i guess i will be stuck with 830cc injectors on a 550cc revo file til next week which absolutely blows. 


_Modified by bwell01 at 9:37 PM 2-26-2010_


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

i think it goes in the bottom.... i know i had the same thing i just tried a couple different times and finally got it right


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_i think it goes in the bottom.... i know i had the same thing i just tried a couple different times and finally got it right


yup, got it... as i was copying it wasnt pasting the whole string into the spot. its moving along now but i had to manually type the rest of the string in the block.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

enjoy it man


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (l88m22vette)*

Is there a E85 base tune available?
What size MAF's are supported, are there scaleable tables to support any combo?


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_enjoy it man

well, first impressions are







followed b







... the car seems so much more aggressive with this tune. have to get the damper on and get some numbers. 
monday thomas @ taivw will get my fueling back down to 3 bar as we were running hella high fuel pressure to compesate the revo 550 file with 630's. then we will schedule a tuning session based on when tom can get a little free time.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

is it to much to get on an email list from chris for updates?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

So... I'm just curious. Has anyone esle here had issues with their ABS communication since reflashing their ECU with the Maestro software?


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

*Re: (2literA2)*

how much are you guys paying to ship your cables back to chris?


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

i shipped mine out today $33.95 usps global express guranteed. 
guranteed 1-3 days
mine was guranteed tmrw. guess its dependent on where you are located. 
he returns via fed-ex 2 day. the update to the cable takes 10 minutes from what he told me.
im sure you could ship it cheaper, but i needed it back by the weekend. also, usps is going to be cheaper than anyone when shipping international in my experience.
hope that helps


----------



## 2muchboost (Nov 4, 2009)

Any new news on the updated Maestro with tuning guides? Really looking forward to this as I am new to tuning and kindof tripping over my feet. Need some guidance!


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

*Re: (derekb727)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekb727* »_i shipped mine out today $33.95 usps global express guranteed. 
guranteed 1-3 days
mine was guranteed tmrw. guess its dependent on where you are located. 
he returns via fed-ex 2 day. the update to the cable takes 10 minutes from what he told me.
im sure you could ship it cheaper, but i needed it back by the weekend. also, usps is going to be cheaper than anyone when shipping international in my experience.
hope that helps

i paid a country ton moreeekk


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

i'm guessing you didnt use usps? lol


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

*Re: (derekb727)*

npe. ah well


----------



## Minimum40 (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: (VW1990CORRADO)*

Still no Maestro update huh? Thought it was "supposed" to be done on Friday. This is getting frustrating. Ive had the cable for nearly 2 months and still cant log or use Maestro.


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

what exactly is your issue with it? y


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Minimum40)*

do you have your base file? You will need this to open Maesto7


----------



## Minimum40 (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: (VRT)*

Yes, Chris sent me the base file a few weeks ago but needed to "add my ecu code to Maestro" so I can actually open and use it. He told me Thursday that it would be ready Friday and now on Tuesday still nothing. 
It did take him some time to write the base file because I have a unique hardware setup, but I completely understand that. Waiting to use Maestro is killing me though.
All I really want to do is do some logging and delete EVAP and SAI.


----------



## Golfsyncro18T (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re:*

Okay, here goes, I'm hoping someone has the experience to help me with a few questions. I have been playing around with Maestro for a few days now since it is now logging correctly. I just have a few questions how some of the maps interrelate and what some of the numbers mean.
1. The timing maps along the left side from top to bottom read: 6500.00;4.00;600.00;800.00 etc. up to 5000.00. The 6500.00 is throwing me off, what's that all about? Shouldn't it start at zero? Also how do the numbers along the top relate?
2. What are numbers along the top of the Main Fuel Correction map?
3. Driver's Wish - please explain how this map works.
4. An overview of the rev limiter would be nice too. 
I have had hundreds of hours of experience on SDS and 034 and I can say I've got them down, but I'm having some difficulty with the lack of information available on Maestro. What we need is a tuning manual that gives the theory behind each map and how it affects other maps. I would suggest something similar to what 034 has done for their system. In the meantime any help would be most appreciated to bring me up to speed with Maestro.
Thanks.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

*Re: Re: (Golfsyncro18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Golfsyncro18T* »_ * What we need is a tuning manual that gives the theory behind each map and how it affects other maps. I would suggest something similar to what 034 has done for their system.*
Thanks.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: Re: (derekb727)*

have you gone to their website


----------



## Golfsyncro18T (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_have you gone to their website

What website are you referring to?


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: Re: (Golfsyncro18T)*

http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/


----------



## Golfsyncro18T (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/

Yes, I've been there, read every page of that site multiple times trying to glean what I can. What's your point?


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Golfsyncro18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Golfsyncro18T* »_Okay, here goes, I'm hoping someone has the experience to help me with a few questions. I have been playing around with Maestro for a few days now since it is now logging correctly. I just have a few questions how some of the maps interrelate and what some of the numbers mean.
1. The timing maps along the left side from top to bottom read: 6500.00;4.00;600.00;800.00 etc. up to 5000.00. The 6500.00 is throwing me off, what's that all about? Shouldn't it start at zero? Also how do the numbers along the top relate?
2. What are numbers along the top of the Main Fuel Correction map?
3. Driver's Wish - please explain how this map works.
4. An overview of the rev limiter would be nice too. 
I have had hundreds of hours of experience on SDS and 034 and I can say I've got them down, but I'm having some difficulty with the lack of information available on Maestro. What we need is a tuning manual that gives the theory behind each map and how it affects other maps. I would suggest something similar to what 034 has done for their system. In the meantime any help would be most appreciated to bring me up to speed with Maestro.
Thanks.


I had been bugging Chris Tapp about this as well.
The dependencies between maps are what is needed. This is what happens when guys hold this stuff back for years then release it. 

As it stands now, the log tracing stuff will allow you to tweak out your base tune just fine for little stuff here or there.

But if you wanted to start from scratch doing theoretical to build your tables and maps, you would be boned badly.


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

New Version of Maestro available:
Added injector wizard, expanded map descriptions, added histogram functionality and more.
New Flash will be available on Monday or Tuesday. One of the changes is that it will have an option to select a slower data logging speed for us older Audi's that can't hang with the high baud rate.


----------



## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

I noticed that the Maestro can be used on the 1.8t as well as the Audi 2.7tt. Is it the same controller/hardware? Do they have similar enough ECUs? 
Basically what I'm trying to get at would be is it possible to buy an ecu/Maestro for an S4 but use it in a 1.8t setup first?


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: (engineerd18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *engineerd18t* »_I noticed that the Maestro can be used on the 1.8t as well as the Audi 2.7tt. Is it the same controller/hardware? Do they have similar enough ECUs? 
Basically what I'm trying to get at would be is it possible to buy an ecu/Maestro for an S4 but use it in a 1.8t setup first?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say no. different.








You can ask Chris about getting a discount for buying more than one license. 


_Modified by Lou_Y2mK5 at 4:37 PM 3-6-2010_


----------



## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

does the maestro software work on windows 7 64 bit


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: (yrodin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yrodin* »_does the maestro software work on windows 7 64 bit
it just came out a couple months ago... what do you think??


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

yes it does, using windows &7 here


----------



## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

*Re: (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*

i knew it would work on 32 bit, but alot of stuff doesnt work on 64


----------



## 01AudiGuy (Mar 16, 2004)

i'm having a problem with my boost control. When I begin building boost at about 4psi...the boost oscillates as it rises. This happens regardless of throttle position (heavily on the gas or easing into it). Do I need to adjust Boost PID or the Duty Cycle map? How do these two maps effect boost control? Thanks!


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (01AudiGuy)*

just looked at the new wizard of inj. 
cool ****


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

Hey guys... Maestro Version 1.4.1 was available early yesterday. However, version 1.4.2 was up last night.
Something worth mentioning... my base injector settings (630cc) for the new version of Maestro are different than the base file I originally received.
So... I reflashed my ECU starting from my base file and then applying the new injector wizard settings. Then I adjusted the injector constant using the wizard for 58 psi rather thanm the original 43.5psi.
I must say that some of the tweaks included in the injector wizard have really helped my idle. It seems that the new starting point is a bit closer than my old base file.
I give the new revision a big thumbs up!
Now I just need a flow chart which outlines in what order to you start to edit maps.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (2literA2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_Hey guys... Maestro Version 1.4.1 was available early yesterday. However, version 1.4.2 was up last night.
Something worth mentioning... my base injector settings (630cc) for the new version of Maestro are different than the base file I originally received.
So... I reflashed my ECU starting from my base file and then applying the new injector wizard settings. Then I adjusted the injector constant using the wizard for 58 psi rather thanm the original 43.5psi.
I must say that some of the tweaks included in the injector wizard have really helped my idle. It seems that the new starting point is a bit closer than my old base file.
I give the new revision a big thumbs up!
Now I just need a flow chart which outlines in what order to you start to edit maps.

Glad you noticed this. Idle is like butter


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

just checked version 1.5.1 is up now


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*

Would someone one mind posting a screenshot of their unmolested ignition coil dwell vs load table?
Thanks,
Rey


----------



## 2muchboost (Nov 4, 2009)

Is something wrong with the Eurodyne site? Cant access for some reason, maybe down for maintenance?


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

The eurodyne main page is down for whatever reason. 
Go hereL
http://www.eurodyne.ca/users_LogIn.php?


----------



## 2muchboost (Nov 4, 2009)

Yep. That brings me back to the old software, Chris must be doing some maintenance or something... ??


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (2muchboost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2muchboost* »_Yep. That brings me back to the old software, Chris must be doing some maintenance or something... ??


No, the dates did not update for whatever reason.
Click on the links, and you will find new versions. I have Maestro 1.5.1 available as well as eurodyne flash 1.8.0 and logviewer v2
He is probably fixing that, while working on maestro and God knows what else. Many of many hats.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

i alked to chris and he said they are switching the server for the website today. should be good for everything tomorrow


----------



## 2muchboost (Nov 4, 2009)

Obviously a VERY busy man. My hat is off to him with the utmost respect!!!!


----------



## 2muchboost (Nov 4, 2009)

gdoggmoney, Awesome signature by the way!!!!!


----------



## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

What website are you guys ordering you Maestro from? Or directly from Eurodyne?


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *yrodin* »_What website are you guys ordering you Maestro from? Or directly from Eurodyne?


i plan to go thru
[email protected]
got to support the local venders.


----------



## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

Has anyone ordered from Driversport Inc.?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

I used PagParts... and highly recommend them.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

*Re: (2literA2)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for PagParts


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Got it from petey!


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Would someone one mind posting a screenshot of their unmolested ignition coil dwell vs load table?
Thanks,
Rey

this is all i have... but it is correct if you subtract 2.00 to every value


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (coreyj)*

Thank you. I knew you said you added 2 across the board, but I didn't know if it was just on the dwell vs voltage map or both.
Wiring up LS2 truck coils also as I type this.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Updated firmware and tried new injector wizard. idle has improved ten fold. No more idle dip due to exhaust leak. Also no more high rpm rise on start up.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

hey i have some logs i pulled the other day...anybody wanna take a look at em? i can e-mail them...lol


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Thank you. I knew you said you added 2 across the board, but I didn't know if it was just on the dwell vs voltage map or both.
Wiring up LS2 truck coils also as I type this.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


what did you change with the injector wizard or jus treflash you car


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (2muchboost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2muchboost* »_gdoggmoney, Awesome signature by the way!!!!!


Thanks. I went eurodyne initially because Arnold and Chris Tapp cooked up a base E85 tune for the 2nd table of my dual table ECU, whereas UNI wanted nothing to do with E85 and offered no dual table functionality.

Unitronic forum guys, adam and so forth kept telling me to wait the past few years when i wanted stanadalone type access to my ECU.
Well I waited, and they decided only a dealer is capable of tuning a car.
Maestro came, and I purchased. This is modifying vehicles, not babysitting. I want control of MY vehicle., your dealers can cram it where the sun does not shine IMHO.
I voted with my dollars.


----------



## ricekikr (Feb 24, 2010)

has anyone with an AEB and ME5 or less actually use this already?
Any limitations?
Does Maestro already have IMMO defeat?
Post links please











_Modified by ricekikr at 6:05 PM 3/11/2010_


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

When you say "dual table" you mean you have a 93 oct file and an e85 file? If so how do I go about getting say a 110 leaded file along with my 93 file.
Also, with the updates does it actually update the previous file or are you guys saving a whole new file and then deleting the old one?
When you guys say you are reflashing with the base file how is that done? Are you just reloading the original file Chris sent you but with the updated software? Are you having to make any other adjustments?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (coreyj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *coreyj* »_
this is all i have... but it is correct if you subtract 2.00 to every value 









I was looking at your other dwell vs voltage screenshot:

_Quote, originally posted by *coreyj* »_Dwell settings in maestro. added 2ms to all









If the max value started off as 8 (ms ?), does that seem right?


----------



## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

Well I ordered my Maestro Suite on Friday, should be here early next week. They are going to email me my base file, and then do I just flash it to the ECU?


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

check out the eurodyne forums... it has everything youll need to know to get the car flashed and ready to go
http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum


----------



## fourv2 (Jan 6, 2009)

the people at eurodyne are incredible - super fast shipping got me the ecu when i needed it - sent me the files super fast - everything runs INSANELY smooth - in fact my car runs better now than stock
i <3 Eurodyne


----------



## reflected (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (coreyj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *coreyj* »_
this is all i have... but it is correct if you subtract 2.00 to every value 









can you post a screenshot of the 3d map please?


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

i know theres tons of stuff that you can do with maestro... so im throwing this out there see if anyone knows how to do it. I have a valet key that is cut but i never got it programed from the dealership because they wanted 100 bucks to do it... anyone know how to do it through maestro using the measuring blocks....
thanks in advance


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: (Dub-Nub)*

Ive tried updating firmware like 3 times now and can't get it working. And what is the new injector wizard? I just downloaded the most recent version of maestro but it doesn't appear to look any different.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *jettaman18t* »_Ive tried updating firmware like 3 times now and can't get it working. And what is the new injector wizard? I just downloaded the most recent version of maestro but it doesn't appear to look any different. 


when i downloaded the new versions i had to go in and delete the old versions odd the computer to get the new ones to work.. if not whenever i would open it it would go strait to the old version... try that


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_check out the eurodyne forums... it has everything youll need to know to get the car flashed and ready to go
http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum

speaking of the forums... whats the biz with all the teen pron and drug threads? what the hay is going on with that?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

Does any one know why my logs show a huge difference between the calculated engine load, and the engine load spec. columns?


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_i know theres tons of stuff that you can do with maestro... so im throwing this out there see if anyone knows how to do it. I have a valet key that is cut but i never got it programed from the dealership because they wanted 100 bucks to do it... anyone know how to do it through maestro using the measuring blocks....
thanks in advance


----------



## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

Iam trying to read my ecu, it got about a ¼ of the way and a window popped up that says failed to start communications... check connections and make sure key is on. The key is in the on position, and I can get it to work. Any ideas????


_Modified by yrodin at 9:08 PM 3-17-2010_


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

you have im


----------



## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_

Thanks. I went eurodyne initially because Arnold and Chris Tapp cooked up a base E85 tune for the 2nd table of my dual table ECU, whereas UNI wanted nothing to do with E85 and offered no dual table functionality.

Unitronic forum guys, adam and so forth kept telling me to wait the past few years when i wanted stanadalone type access to my ECU.
Well I waited, and they decided only a dealer is capable of tuning a car.
Maestro came, and I purchased. This is modifying vehicles, not babysitting. I want control of MY vehicle., your dealers can cram it where the sun does not shine IMHO.
I voted with my dollars.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Im not sure how much longer I can wait for Unitune.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *engineerd18t* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Im not sure how much longer I can wait for Unitune.


too bad you'll never see unitune its just goin to shops it wont ever see the handss of end users


----------



## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

Got it to read the ECU, had to put it on high speed.


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (2literA2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_Does any one know why my logs show a huge difference between the calculated engine load, and the engine load spec. columns?









Anyone?


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: (2literA2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_Does any one know why my logs show a huge difference between the calculated engine load, and the engine load spec. columns?

This is kind of a guess and I don't own the software but I believe it is related to what was discussed a few pages back about MAF's. For instance on DSM link the calculated engine load is an equation of your MAP value+other inputs vs. the actual which is the MAF. I don't know how Maestro works and last I saw you were MAFLESS but I would assume it is similiar. Perhaps on a MAFLESS file the engine load is derived from preprogrammed theoretical calculations of what the engine should be seeing based on throttle+rpm. Sounds like something is not scaled correctly to me. Food for thought, not sure if thats right but maybe someone else can elaborate more. This is one of the reasons I will be keeping the MAF as I believe MAFLESS was only made famous by UNI not being able to properly tune cars.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

new flash and log viewer is up fellas


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

anyone heard anymore about the launch control yet


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

or no lift shift?


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekb727* »_or no lift shift?


would be nice too


----------



## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

so i got my base file and license file from chris today and the key.
when i go to flash my ecu it doesnt connect. what do i do with the license file? and why is it not connecting?


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

yrodin you have im


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (l88m22vette)*

So I have 830CC Lucas injectors in my car right now. I just recently noticed the new injector wizard feature on Maestro. I saw a injector selection for Siemens 830s but not Lucas 830's. My car runs fine right now but ideally i'd like to run a base map for these injectors. Could I essentially run the Siemens 830 file? I already contacted Chris about this so i'm just waiting for a reply. Is anyone currently experiencing the same thing. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

any one else having problems with the logger and loader reading the car after the new software updates.... now when i try to update or do logs it says that it cant read the ecu and to make sure everyhting is connected properly which it is...


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

bueler ....anyone^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_any one else having problems with the logger and loader reading the car after the new software updates.... now when i try to update or do logs it says that it cant read the ecu and to make sure everyhting is connected properly which it is...


do a forced update by clicking on the white square on the bottom right


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

i never noticed that button before... just did it when family guy n cleveland show are done im gonna run out there


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_i never noticed that button before... just did it when family guy n cleveland show are done im gonna run out there

me neither. i did a firmware update to 3.1.2 and it didnt work. emailed Chris and he said to force update it. So I did and it worked


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dub-Nub* »_
me neither. i did a firmware update to 3.1.2 and it didnt work. emailed Chris and he said to force update it. So I did and it worked










did a force update adn it still would do logs or quick tune


----------



## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

is there any way to display afr actual, all i see is afr desired when i do a log


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

well did it again can do logs again now but still no quick tune


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Now that my car runs again, I need to update my maestro software on ye old laptop and tweak. I have some flat spots, and my idle is jumpy, bad when cold. 
I will have to redo my injector constant like all of you people with the new improved wizard and start from there.
I can't wait to flatten out my throttle pedal. No more jumpy throttle and odd happenings. I want 15% throttle at 15% pedal damn it.


----------



## dtcaward (May 10, 2009)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

well i have to buy a ecu mine is fried if i put a new ecu can i immo delete the new 
ecu with maestro 7?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_I can't wait to flatten out my throttle pedal. No more jumpy throttle and odd happenings. I want 15% throttle at 15% pedal damn it.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (elRey)*

I've done some TB tweaking, just make it smooth, but DO NOT make it a straight line (as in 45* angle), the basic shape is correct, just make subtle changes. Here is my more-or-less finished throttle body map for a stock engine BEA 02x TT:










_Modified by l88m22vette at 9:29 PM 3-23-2010_


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

I would think that map was more of a calibration/crosscheck than a request map.
i.e. it crosschecks measured air mass against this table.
Driver desire map should be used for pedal [email protected] for requested torque.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Miscommunication.
I want to flatten my throttle PEDAL map.
So 15% pedal is 15% pedal/throttle.
That is RPM VS Throttle pedal percentage, and the values are actual throttle.
So a flat 1-1 is fine there








If anything it can only help with larger injectors since yo-yoing around , and the DBW throttle opening if you are not slipping the clutch well enough can cause weird issues......
Eff all that, I want that potential 100% eliminated, I started driving cars with throttle cables and want my damn 10% throttle at 10% pedal and 800rpm, not 50% throttle at 500 RPM and 20% throttle input.
If I am stalling the car, let it be. I do not want the ECU trying to compensate for me, that leads to problems troubleshooting and adds just 1 more layer of complexity I do not want.

I want to be assured at 20% throttle if I have a flat spot, it is a flat spot at 20% throttle.
Flattening the throttle pedal to 1-1 ratio of opening at any given value should be a troubleshooting fist IMHO with these cars.

Call me crazy, my thoughts are what they are.


_Modified by gdoggmoney at 11:12 AM 3-24-2010_


----------



## dgmorr (Feb 16, 2007)

Can someone tell me what the difference is between Engine Load and Engine Load Spec.? And what is this measured in?
Thanks.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I am now running better than ever, idling perfect cold, warm, and warm up.
I flattened my throttle pedal map. I am so much happier with this car.
this weekend i will be datalogging and working on my flatspots between 2-3k and the on/off throttle hesitation, which is likely due to the AEB head, big port intake and tune not suited.


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

Where did you start when adjusting your idle? Meaning... did you have any idle stabilization problems? If yes, then how did you fix them?


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *dtcaward* »_well i have to buy a ecu mine is fried if i put a new ecu can i immo delete the new 
ecu with maestro 7?


i would also like to know this, i doute its possible but maybe it is.....


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (carsluTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carsluTT* »_
i would also like to know this, i doute its possible but maybe it is.....

Yes... you can defeat the immob, but I believe it's an additional charge.


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_
Yes... you can defeat the immob, but I believe it's an additional charge.


just as i had worried,,,, i cant simply plug in a new ecu, and trun off the immob... got to prob send it to them, have them do it then get it back and start tunning w/ maestro7 .... oh well still good stuff!


----------



## dtcaward (May 10, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (carsluTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carsluTT* »_
just as i had worried,,,, i cant simply plug in a new ecu, and trun off the immob... got to prob send it to them, have them do it then get it back and start tunning w/ maestro7 .... oh well still good stuff!


thanks im going to buy this week end http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_










_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_Miscommunication.
...
That is RPM VS Throttle pedal percentage, and the values are actual throttle.


How come I see kg/hr and not pedal % on the y-axis? and the the y-axis values look like kg/hr and not 0-100%?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (carsluTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carsluTT* »_
just as i had worried,,,, i cant simply plug in a new ecu, and trun off the immob... got to prob send it to them, have them do it then get it back and start tunning w/ maestro7 .... oh well still good stuff!


Actually... Chris will just send you an additional "code" allowing you to defeat the immob function in the ECU using the Eurodyne flash software. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_
Actually... Chris will just send you an additional "code" allowing you to defeat the immob function in the ECU using the Eurodyne flash software. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


oh boy, thats rad!... back to collecting soda cans so i an pay for maestro7


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_I am now running better than ever, idling perfect cold, warm, and warm up.
I flattened my throttle pedal map. I am so much happier with this car.
this weekend i will be datalogging and working on my flatspots between 2-3k and the on/off throttle hesitation, which is likely due to the AEB head, big port intake and tune not suited.


Screenshot? sorry for my mispicture


----------



## Minimum40 (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

Anyone know what units the mass airflow is in the Logger? g/s? kg/hr?
I ask because I am pegging the mass air gauge at 500 at 5000 rpms on a k04.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Minimum40)*

Visited Chris on Thursday. He was working on something very nice


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_Visited Chris on Thursday. He was working on something very nice










any hints


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*

launch control????


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Budsdubbin)*

warp drive!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

The next few versions of Maestro are only going to get much better as well. So far each version has been a major improvement. 
The communications are much more stable and sane now. Flash has come a long way.
Thanks to Chris for continuous improvements and dedication.


----------



## autoxtrem (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

i got a good feeling about the 2 step


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *autoxtrem* »_i got a good feeling about the 2 step










i cant wait.... its gonnnabe fun


----------



## autoxtrem (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*

tell me about it ive been launching our drag car off vacuum, and still running 9.1.. i smell 8s on bosch ECU


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (autoxtrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *autoxtrem* »_tell me about it ive been launching our drag car off vacuum, and still running 9.1.. i smell 8s on bosch ECU









tell US about it! hows the 2step progress coming?? i cant wait


----------



## autoxtrem (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (VW1990CORRADO)*

coming along so well that we will be using it this season, but still more work so sit tight.


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (autoxtrem)*


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Downloaded the newest version of Eurodyne flash today and keep getting errors. I wanted to play with the injector wizard so I can get my high rev start up fixed but every time I try and do anything I get the same pop up.








And then if I try to re-flash the ecu I get that same pop up along with this one








Also noticed it never asks me for my key code when I try to re-flash. According to the tutorial it should ask for the key string.
Anyone know what gives???
TIA


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

did you delete the old files?


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

They are in my recycle bin


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

But I do have the originals in my email as well


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

you ran the install for the new versions as well?


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

yes^^^


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (jwalker1.8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwalker1.8* »_Downloaded the newest version of Eurodyne flash today and keep getting errors. I wanted to play with the injector wizard so I can get my high rev start up fixed but every time I try and do anything I get the same pop up.
And then if I try to re-flash the ecu I get that same pop up along with this one
Also noticed it never asks me for my key code when I try to re-flash. According to the tutorial it should ask for the key string.
Anyone know what gives???
TIA

Check out the Eurodyne Forums... there is a post that explains what to do here:
http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/v...t=439
I had the same issue...
You will need to reread your ECU and send that file to Chris. He will then reissue a new liscense file to you.


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (2literA2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_
Check out the Eurodyne Forums... there is a post that explains what to do here:
http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/v...t=439
I had the same issue...
You will need to reread your ECU and send that file to Chris. He will then reissue a new liscense file to you.

EFFFFF!!!!


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

I just bought a set of Siemens 870cc injectors. The Maestro wizard doesn't include these... and I was wondering which voltage compensation curve most matched the 870cc in the injector wizard in Maestro? There are the 630, 830 & 840 each with a slightly different curve.
Does anyone know the characteristic of these injectors relative to other Siemens injectors?


_Modified by 2literA2 at 1:04 PM 4-6-2010_


----------



## ricekikr (Feb 24, 2010)

any aeb users?


----------



## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Can someone tell me what injectors are already in the wizard. I apologize if its been posted previously. I would love to switch to 1600s or even 2000s.


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (TSTARKZ123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TSTARKZ123* »_Can someone tell me what injectors are already in the wizard. I apologize if its been posted previously. I would love to switch to 1600s or even 2000s.


----------



## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_










Awesome, thanks! I'm still trying to convince myself I need to switch. LOL


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (TSTARKZ123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TSTARKZ123* »_Can someone tell me what injectors are already in the wizard. I apologize if its been posted previously. I would love to switch to 1600s or even 2000s.

They have a file for 2000 inj


----------



## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_
They have a file for 2000 inj



Oh man...finally get to use this 6262 to its potential.


----------



## Bigjuice (Jul 31, 2006)

*Re: (ricekikr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ricekikr* »_any aeb users?


Apparently not enough...........









ME5 people are on the back burner


----------



## autoxtrem (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: (Bigjuice)*

yes they made a custom 2000cc file for our drag car and car idle just like stock using the ID2000 injectors.


----------



## MIVRT24V (Feb 7, 2010)

I know its 1.8 T(;P) forum but do they come up with Maestro for 2004 vr6 24v little turbo







(precision ball bearing billet 6765 ), 870cc injectors ???
Thanks


----------



## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *autoxtrem* »_yes they made a custom 2000cc file for our drag car and car idle just like stock using the ID2000 injectors.



You were on Elf 124 leaded fuel, correct?


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

im gonna be playing with some stuff here in a min its gonna be fun


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

all i can say is wow... goin to fill up with some cam 2 and 93 octane tommorw 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3qogKH-qSM


_Modified by weenerdog3443 at 3:48 PM 4-7-2010_


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

is that beta or is it out already?!??!?
edit: downloading and reflashing in 30 mins


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dub-Nub* »_is that beta or is it out already?!??!?


heheheheehe


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Activate 2 step via maestro, flash then read settings and change to ~2500 rpms? Gotta make sure im doing it right
Also, i may have to get rid of my cat then xD


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dub-Nub* »_Activate 2 step via maestro, flash then read settings and change to ~2500 rpms? Gotta make sure im doing it right
Also, i may have to get rid of my cat then xD


i had mine set to 3200... might turn it down a lil... yea you are def going to have to get rid of your cat.. i have a 42dd exhaust somine has been gone for years


----------



## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Is it a "true" 2 step?


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

weener does your **** sound like a gunshot? i have it set to 2k right now and it scares the **** out of my even revving it up


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dub-Nub* »_weener does your **** sound like a gunshot? i have it set to 2k right now and it scares the **** out of my even revving it up 


yea man the **** is loud... when i go to work tommorow im gonna do it in out parking garage


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*

feecck, that's it..i gotta get maestro..2step now..now i jus gotta find an ECU to buy so i can sell my Uni flashed ECU. or does anyone know if i can flash over my Uni ecu??


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

you can flash over ur uni but if you can sell your uni and get another might be able to help pay


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*

exactly..it would DEf help me ALOT


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Im hopeing no lift shift is next


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

according to description its only for AWP and ABM engines at the moment. I am turning off my 2step at the moment, i dont think its acting properly as the bang seems way too loud compared to the others ive seen and its staying at 0 boost when i hold it down =/. Plus it initiates a bit during shifts but its still in beta.


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

I am excited it is here but will wait until more testing is done before I play with my car.


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

Anxiously awaiting the AWM version...


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_Im hopeing no lift shift is next

already included with this beta update http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dubbinout (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Lou_Y2mK5)*

Questions:
1. Does this software have a "shelt" map for the k04-001 and supporting goods?
2. If they do and anyone has used this software..opinions? I have revo stg 1 right now and am highly concidering switching to this when i redeploy to the states.
3. Is this software made compatible for Macs as well?


_Modified by dubbinout at 11:37 AM 4-8-2010_


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

so what is everyone settign there 2 step to


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

not really i wish i could. Talked to chris and the program is kph not mph so that might help a lil bit..he said if you dont want the speed based limiter set it to 0.. from reading his emails whatever you set the speed at it will always do it below that speed, if im understanding it right.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

also has anyone had a chance to play with the no lift shift yet i forgot bout it comin down the freeway this mornin


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_not really i wish i could. Talked to chris and the program is kph not mph so that might help a lil bit..he said if you dont want the speed based limiter set it to 0.. from reading his emails whatever you set the speed at it will always do it below that speed, if im understanding it right.

If i am understand this that means if you set the speed limiter to ~30 mph it will only really do it in 1st gear. If its at 0 it will always do it shifting above 3. God i cant wait to try this after cat removal


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dub-Nub* »_
If i am understand this that means if you set the speed limiter to ~30 mph it will only really do it in 1st gear. If its at 0 it will always do it shifting above 3. God i cant wait to try this after cat removal


keep in mind the program is in kph so if you want mph u are going to have to convert it..
Depends how you want to use it. If you just want to use the clutch switch, set the speed to 250 and the speed based limit will be disabled.
Otherwise, set it very low (2 km/hr) and the 2step will be active as long as the car is not moving, whether or not the clutch is in.
The clutch switch is always active.
Sorry, If you don’t want the speed based limiter to work set it to 0. It will be active below the speed you set, so anytime you are below 35 kph.
hope this helps fellas


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

yeah the conversion i remember and will change...what i am not understanding is why would you want 2step active if the car is moving at like 40mphs or 50mph and you are shifting? isnt that when no-lift-shift comes into play to bring the rpms down?
I thought of 2step as only working during launching


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dub-Nub* »_yeah the conversion i remember and will change...what i am not understanding is why would you want 2step active if the car is moving at like 40mphs or 50mph and you are shifting? isnt that when no-lift-shift comes into play to bring the rpms down?
I thought of 2step as only working during launching 


rolling start maybe... i have mine set for like 3 mph and 3200 rpms


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

you mentioned someone was tailgating you and you imitated it, wasn't that 2step and if so why was it imitated during driving *question mark*


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dub-Nub* »_you mentioned someone was tailgating you and you imitated it, wasn't that 2step and if so why was it imitated during driving *question mark*


what i did was hold the clutch in and rev it and it held at 32 and then i unloaded it.. I think what it is is whatever you set your speed to it will do it no matter what as long as you are below that speed and then if you are above it it is clutch activated... does that make any sense


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

gotcha, i will definitely play with it once i get it setup


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (Dub-Nub)*

Anyone notice that the Load Correction map access has been removed?
Edit... Nevermind, just moved and renamed "Flowmeter Correction"


_Modified by 2literA2 at 10:20 PM 4-8-2010_


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

hey any you guys been playing with the no lift shift... driving home tonight noticed between 3/4 throttle and wot as soon as i would shift and let off the clutch it would be like 2 step and light up... and kinda stager a lil... still gotta play with it more tho


----------



## fourv2 (Jan 6, 2009)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by fourv2 at 6:37 AM 4-9-2010_


----------



## keems (Mar 24, 2009)

I'm running eurodyne mafless file, and the car has got 2 lambdas (before and after cat) - can I replace the last one with a innovate wide band lambda? since the cat is removed anyway..


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (keems)*


_Quote, originally posted by *keems* »_I'm running eurodyne mafless file, and the car has got 2 lambdas (before and after cat) - can I replace the last one with a innovate wide band lambda? since the cat is removed anyway..

Sure... as long as you have it "turned off' in the software. I left mine hooked up and just tied if off in the engine compartment.
Then just run your wideband sensor in the 2nd O2 hole.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (2literA2)*

Anyone running a base tune for Siemens Deka 840cc ? How do the base tune settings look/run compared to the injector wizard settings? Specifically the Battery compensation values.
Thanks,
Rey


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

hey any of you aww guys having problems doing logs... or if you are aww are you able to do logs


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_hey any of you aww guys having problems doing logs... or if you are aww are you able to do logs


Yep, I sent Chris Tapp a comm log. He should be fixing it. Call him and ask him if he got to it.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

yea ive sent him acouple comm logs too


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

also never really got a solid answer from anyone... what are you guys setting your 2 step at... i have mine at 3200 you guys anything different more less why


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Anyone running a base tune for Siemens Deka 840cc ? How do the base tune settings look/run compared to the injector wizard settings? Specifically the Battery compensation values.
Thanks,
Rey


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

wish i could help ya elray.... kinda hard to find a answer on here sometimes


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

I wonder if the delay in the 2 step and no-lift for the AWM motor has to do with the VVT tensioner?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (2literA2)*

Does anyone know how injector latency affects drivability? How do you know when, where and how much to adjust? I'm assuming this variable is labeled as "Injection Correction" in Maestro...


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (2literA2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_Does anyone know how injector latency affects drivability? How do you know when, where and how much to adjust? I'm assuming this variable is labeled as "Injection Correction" in Maestro...


Take this to the private Tapp/Maestro/Eurodyne forum I think it is time we ask these questions there.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_also never really got a solid answer from anyone... what are you guys setting your 2 step at... i have mine at 3200 you guys anything different more less why


You want your 2step just above your bog point so you do not get much wheelspin but do not bog down launching.
On slicks that could be 3800-4200 On street tires, it could be much lower......
Help any?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

I'm on it... my handle over there A4DRIVR.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (2literA2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_I'm on it... my handle over there A4DRIVR.


We are not going to get any of the questions answered here, time to band together there and ask the questions we need answered.
Make sense?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_

We are not going to get any of the questions answered here, time to band together there and ask the questions we need answered.
Make sense? 

Yes... I have already been asking questions there. I was one of the first to suggest this! Check this thread from 2/4/10...


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (2literA2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2literA2* »_
Yes... I have already been asking questions there. I was one of the first to suggest this! Check this thread from 2/4/10...

I saw some of the threads. It is time for everyone here to pester there, That way we get answers. You know? Squeaky wheel gets the grease.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

question::::::: what are you guys setting your 2step to rpm wise just want to get a feeler... mine is 3800 rpms

also with the 2 step when you guys are loading it up are you getting your backfire as soon as you hit the rpm you set it to and does it keep doing it.. ie when i load it up once i hit 3800 it lights every other second instead of lighting like when i let off the clutch... did i make any sense...


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_question::::::: what are you guys setting your 2step to rpm wise just want to get a feeler... mine is 3800 rpms

also with the 2 step when you guys are loading it up are you getting your backfire as soon as you hit the rpm you set it to and does it keep doing it.. ie when i load it up once i hit 3800 it lights every other second instead of lighting like when i let off the clutch... did i make any sense... 

video examples would help


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
video examples would help










yea ill get one tommorw.. its like as soon as i hit the set rpm's it lights up


----------



## DonSupreme (Apr 11, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_
yea ill get one tommorw.. its like as soon as i hit the set rpm's it lights up 

And how much boost do you make?


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_question::::::: what are you guys setting your 2step to rpm wise just want to get a feeler... mine is 3800 rpms

also with the 2 step when you guys are loading it up are you getting your backfire as soon as you hit the rpm you set it to and does it keep doing it.. ie when i load it up once i hit 3800 it lights every other second instead of lighting like when i let off the clutch... did i make any sense... 

It works fine.....
It takes a while at lower RPM
I daily drove a car with a WOT box for years, and it is the SAME thing just done in code on ME7


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_
It works fine.....
It takes a while at lower RPM
I daily drove a car with a WOT box for years, and it is the SAME thing just done in code on ME7


maybe ill lower it... it was bout the same at 3000 i might lower it tommorow see what it does let yall know and make some videos


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*

A no lift shift @ 6-7000RPM + ignition cut = lots of fuel in a very warm turbine housing.
When I ran E85 daily I was shooting 6ft purple flames out the tailpipe of the car using the no lift shift.
The explosion rapes your exhaust valves some and keeps the turbine spooling between shift, while not really making power. 
AKA
Win win win. 
I can show you what exhaust valves look like if you seriously abuse the **** out of the 2-step. 
Ever seen them white?


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

new updates


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

So... is it normal to have an AFR of 13.7~14.2 at warm idle and thru out my cruising speed? My thought s is that this may be a little rich...
Anyone have any input?


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

I am at about 14.4-14.7 while idling and cruising. Very steady. AEM analog wideband


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (jwalker1.8)*

That's more like what I thought it should be... the weid thing is, my wideband is telling me I rich, and the ECU keeps adding fuel.
Where should I tweak the maps to lean out my low load conditions?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (2literA2)*

Can some people post up screen grabs of their "Target Filling" maps? 
Please mention if you are 1.8, 2.0, etc.


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

2literA2, sent you a pm


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (jwalker1.8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwalker1.8* »_2literA2, sent you a pm

Got it... thanks!


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (2literA2)*

2 revision jumps in eurodyne flash since last night.

2.0.3 is now up on ftp folks.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

damn


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*

Wow to think Uni charges 50$ for updates/upgrades. Eurodyne give m free on the maestro system http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (VRT)*

I think the only reason for me to get back in the 1.8T scene is this software. Cant wait http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_hey any of you aww guys having problems doing logs... or if you are aww are you able to do logs
 I have an appointment next week with Arnold to get my cable in person up there.. He is going to help me get the initial tune in place, and spend some time walking me through a lot of the basics.. I plan on taking notes, and we are going to spend a bunch of time with this, so Ill report back with as much info as i can gather


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

Well guys i sold my car..







didnt even get to try out the 2 step


----------



## hurtswhenipee (May 13, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*

bring him coffee


----------



## [email protected].com (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (hurtswhenipee)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hurtswhenipee* »_bring him coffee









I cant have enough. Talk about peeing









_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_2 revision jumps in eurodyne flash since last night.

2.0.3 is now up on ftp folks.

I think I had something to do w/ that update..


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

so whats the update


----------



## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (l88m22vette)*

Since I'm planning on going BT in 2-3 months, I just orderd Maestro 7 today, Im finally getting rid of APR and I will like to share my experience with this software as soon as I start playing, So far I'm happy with the help I got from this guys.
After I flash my car and do some play time I will post a little more about my experience with this software, it is so damn nice to be able to get software without shipping your ECU to someone else, or having to stick with whatever software is available where you live.
I started reading this thread but the most I saw is just comments about how cool it is and what no, is there actually a guide to go thru this software? I wonder if this will come with any kind of instructions or stuff like that.
Anyway, I'll be posting soon when I flash my German Masterpiece of engineering


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: Maestro 7 Tuning: FAQ, DIY, hard data, and advice thread (PernellGTI)*

their website has some info avalaible


----------



## ModsTTand (Jul 8, 2009)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

Hi all , 
reading this thread grows the need of getting Eurodyne Suite and start my through-out study of this UBER ECU tune application.
now the point is :
I soldered APR EMCS in my AH ECU so, would it upload through the OBD or i need to source a replacement for it?
On the hand what's the procedures if i had people asking me to flash their ECU with their own custom map ?
last but not least the dealer's conditions and terms need to be explained as it'll be more needed in the upcoming future for such fast grown-up company.
all the best for all of ya 
Regards
U.B
P.S: keep the good work Bro u have it in you 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif










_Modified by ModsTTand at 3:14 PM 4/15/2010_


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I cant have enough. Talk about peeing








I think I had something to do w/ that update..


I've contributed a good few bugs myself, and kept Chris Tapp busy with my overlycritical eyes and knack for exploiting issues with software 
O 
There are a few more issues, some table descriptions state they are 128=0 tables, yet they are obviously not. One I can think of right away is warmup fuel correction.
128=0 does not apply to a table with values post radix point.
My stock unmodified 630cc tune, with a fuel pressure compensation for my new 3.5 bar in the injector wizard rapes back a good 20-25% fuel during cold warmup, and I get rich misfires. 
Coolant sensor values are correct. 


_Modified by gdoggmoney at 3:30 PM 4-15-2010_


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (ModsTTand)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ModsTTand* »_Hi all , 
reading this thread grows the need of getting Eurodyne Suite and start my through-out study of this UBER ECU tune application.
now the point is :
I soldered APR EMCS in my AH ECU so, would it upload through the OBD or i need to source a replacement for it?
On the hand what's the procedures if i had people asking me to flash their ECU with their own custom map ?
last but not least the dealer's conditions and terms need to be explained as it'll be more needed in the upcoming future for such fast grown-up company.
all the best for all of ya 
Regards
U.B
P.S: keep the good work Bro u have it in you 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









_Modified by ModsTTand at 3:14 PM 4/15/2010_


Fire up the wavestation and burn your stock hardware back into the board. Or get a stock ECU. 
Do NOT attempt to flash anything but a stock chip.....


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

who here is running a n75 valve... im thinking bout plugging mine back in but how do you turn the boost down i only want to run like 10-15 psi...


----------



## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*

Change the spring on your wastegate...


----------



## ModsTTand (Jul 8, 2009)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

Okay then , EMCS out , Bosch chip in !

Bank Account checked and Eurodyne Suite will be ordered as soon as i get my reply from Chris Tapp.
thanks for replying gdm


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (ModsTTand)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ModsTTand* »_Okay then , EMCS out , Bosch chip in !

Bank Account checked and Eurodyne Suite will be ordered as soon as i get my reply from Chris Tapp.
thanks for replying gdm










ModsTTand, you have PM


----------



## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

*Re: (jwalker1.8)*

Does anyone knows how long it usually takes to get the cable from Eurodyne once you pay? And, what's the best way to get a hold from Chris? I have an e mail adress but its been like 5 days since I sent an e mail and got no answer, Im sure they are crazy busy, just want to start playing w maestro 7.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *a4e3y5* »_Change the spring on your wastegate...


um yea thanks for your input but wasnt planning on it... I was running a boostvalve dual stage boost controller but i figure why not go back to the n75 and let maestro do work


----------



## ModsTTand (Jul 8, 2009)

*Re: (jwalker1.8)*

Pm's checked out and answered Jwalker "the harness conversionist"
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Minimum40 (Jun 6, 2006)

Just completed my SAI and Evap deletes. Which items do I need to turn off in Maestro to keep the CEL off?


----------



## raceTT (Jun 4, 2009)

hi guys, are all you able to read maestro logs? 
i cant.
am i the only to have this problem?


----------



## ricekikr (Feb 24, 2010)

Any links for actual AEB users on Maestro?


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (raceTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *raceTT* »_hi guys, are all you able to read maestro logs? 
i cant.
am i the only to have this problem?


No i have had it crash in windows on 3 different machines.


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Having some problems guys...any insight???
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4858616


----------



## raceTT (Jun 4, 2009)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

also on my car is only matter of time, sometime crash after 10 seconds , others after 5 minutes.
but i cant load on the viewer and on maestro


----------



## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (raceTT)*

i should be picking up a stock ecu soon. unmodified. i have a few questions.
1.will i have to sent it to tapp to do the immo defeat, then get it back and go from there to do the software install?
2.after i get the ecu. will it plug right in and start up car after immo defeat?
3. does having your laptop connected to the car keep the battery in your computer charging? this would be cool.
thanks for any help
reason i am changing ecu is i suspect mine is messed up. i dont want to install maestro on my ecu and find out later its need replaced,


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: (vwturbowolf)*

The Immob defeat can be e-mailed to you in the flash http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## raceTT (Jun 4, 2009)

has anyone tried to change the idle?
mine dont works....


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *raceTT* »_has anyone tried to change the idle?
mine dont works....


new update with maestro flash... apparently new launch control settings pleyed with it a lil but couldnt find much


----------



## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: (PernellGTI)*

My Maestro cable came in today!!! :~)
Took 2 whole days from Ontario... Sweeeettt!


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (jwalker1.8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwalker1.8* »_Can we email each other our log viewer files and view someone elses logs on our viewer? 

of course


----------



## hurtswhenipee (May 13, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (coreyj)*

heading to dyno this afternoon- advice on which 4 measuring blocks to monitor for logging?
edit- nevermind- got it


_Modified by hurtswhenipee at 7:37 AM 4-23-2010_


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Detonation and lean issues. Anyone have any input on any of this? I am kind of clueless about what this stuff means
Here are a few screen shots from the run where it started to detonate


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (jwalker1.8)*

youre pulling alot of timing, and the boost actual verse requested looks off?
are you in race gas timing map?


----------



## DISTURBO (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (VW1990CORRADO)*

looks like its the race fuel map your on, read your setting and make sure your on low oct http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

check and it is on low octane, not race
Also, my a/f ratio during this run was at 14:1 on my wb gauge and detonated loud


_Modified by jwalker1.8 at 5:19 PM 4-24-2010_


----------



## Bigjuice (Jul 31, 2006)

*Re: (ricekikr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ricekikr* »_Any links for actual AEB users on Maestro?


x2


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: (Bigjuice)*

I kind of asked this before but never got an answer. Please lend me your input. Would it be beneficial to run a 3" TT MAF or should I sell it and use my stock 1.8t MAF? I'm going to be running a PAG 50 trim kit on 630cc Maestro. Can anyone tell me which one I should use for the 630 MAF file?


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (TooLFan46n2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TooLFan46n2* »_I kind of asked this before but never got an answer. Please lend me your input. Would it be beneficial to run a 3" TT MAF or should I sell it and use my stock 1.8t MAF? I'm going to be running a PAG 50 trim kit on 630cc Maestro. Can anyone tell me which one I should use for the 630 MAF file?


You need an S4 or RS4 MAF for the Maestro 630cc file. I can not remember which, but Tapp can tell you which it is.
The tune is done for it.


----------



## Crispy222 (Mar 10, 2008)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_

You need an S4 or RS4 MAF for the Maestro 630cc file. I can not remember which, but Tapp can tell you which it is.
The tune is done for it.

S4 housing or housing and sensor?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (jwalker1.8)*

Are you running the N75 or a EBC or MBC?


----------



## raceTT (Jun 4, 2009)

... noone here has tried yet to change the idle?
can somone try please?
thanks


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

bump for vBulletin Vortex


----------



## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

How is it possible to get 14.4-14.7s while idling/cruising? I've tried so many different variations of taking out main fuel adding fuel to certain areas and my car still smells rich at idle. Do I need to change my o2 again? These files are suppose to be perfect and not need any adjusting. I'm not trying to put eurodyne down at all, I just always have to be tuning my car and nothing I ever do seems like its making a difference. I have maestro 7 what do I need to do to solve this problem? My car puts out black sut at cold start I know this because where my car is parked there is a big black spot. My exhaust tip is completely black as well as my bumper. AFR'S are close to target in boost, I don't know whats going on. I'm on a mafless file with Lucas 830CC injectors and am running no cats. Not sure if that helps but I hope someone has some input. I've already checked fuel trims after making adjustments many times, i've done throttle body alignments, i've swapped to 830s from 840s which fixed the in boost afr problem but not the idle problem. I need help!! Thanks


----------



## dantheman18t (Oct 24, 2008)

Can someone have a look at this it is at idle as i can get it to do a log as it keeps coming up with timed out. is 02 correction AFR


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Minimum40 said:


> Just completed my SAI and Evap deletes. Which items do I need to turn off in Maestro to keep the CEL off?


 I just turned them all off! Hahaha! I love Maestro! My 210,000 mile beater Is CEL free.. I never thought id see the daY


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

any of you guys w/ maestro and a newer version of Vagcom care to tell me what you're showing in the OBD2 tab w/ emissions deletes? Everything I failed state inspection for on a Uni flash is showing disabled in the OBD2 tab in Vagcom. I'm curious of Eurodyne users will suffer the same fate.


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

screwball said:


> any of you guys w/ maestro and a newer version of Vagcom care to tell me what you're showing in the OBD2 tab w/ emissions deletes? Everything I failed state inspection for on a Uni flash is showing disabled in the OBD2 tab in Vagcom. I'm curious of Eurodyne users will suffer the same fate.


 I just went outside and ran this on my 630cc Maestro ECU, I think this bodes poorly: 



> Sunday,09,May,2010,12:04:00:12563
> VCDS Version: Release 908.1
> Data version: 20091018
> 
> ...


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

That's basically what I'm seeing w/ Uni. I was thinking of jumping ship so I could fine tune the hardware I'm running w/out paying out over and over for reflashes w/ Uni. It would be a much easier decision if Eurodyne was passing inspection w/ no incident. Thanks for the info Iz.


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

screwball said:


> That's basically what I'm seeing w/ Uni. I was thinking of jumping ship so I could fine tune the hardware I'm running w/out paying out over and over for reflashes w/ Uni. It would be a much easier decision if Eurodyne was passing inspection w/ no incident. Thanks for the info Iz.


 Does anyone know what would have to be done to pass? Just have the ODBII module show "everything's great thanks for asking!" just like the readiness codes do? 

I just sent Chris Tapp an email asking if he has any ideas by the way.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

bump


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

2 questions... How do I do a TBA? Arnold showed me, but I forget.. 

and how do I activate the 2 step? Thanks guys


----------



## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

screwball said:


> bump


 Turning such things off is for off road vehicles only screwball. So yeah, we're all f***ed unless we can figure out a way to turn the stuff back on but not flip codes. 

However that still doesn't fix the fact that even for on road cars the reediness says PASSED all the time so.... No idea what to do.


----------



## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

IzVW said:


> Does anyone know what would have to be done to pass? Just have the ODBII module show "everything's great thanks for asking!" just like the readiness codes do?
> 
> I just sent Chris Tapp an email asking if he has any ideas by the way.


 Why not just take a few hours and plug everything back in, turn forced readiness off then go take the test... Once you pass simply code everything back off and remove the evap stuff again.


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

sledge0001 said:


> Why not just take a few hours and plug everything back in, turn forced readiness off then go take the test... Once you pass simply code everything back off and remove the evap stuff again.


 It's not that easy. Many of us had broken stuff (SAI) or didn't keep all the junky little parts. Evap doesn't just magically work if you plug the balls back in. 

There are a LOT of options in Maestro that I can play with to see if I can change the OBDII codes without throwing CEL's, since I do have resistors installed on all the connectors. 

However if they do the "readiness reset and PASSED shouldn't be there" test then we're still F*#@ED unless the software vendors step up and change that code. There's absolutely no other way around it. 

Hea do any APR guys with the "O2 CEL DELETE" want to do a OBDII scan and see if they'd pass? If not then we really are all in this together....


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

That's a good point, I went through inspection 2yrs ago w/ APRs testpipe file w/out incident, but it seems the new DMV software's more sophisticated and looks beyond the yes/no readiness.


----------



## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

screwball said:


> That's a good point, I went through inspection 2yrs ago w/ APRs testpipe file w/out incident, but it seems the new DMV software's more sophisticated and looks beyond the yes/no readiness.


 When I have time I will see what I can change with Maestro but unless all the tuning companies figure out a way to stop the "always on PASSED" status for the readiness there are going to be a lot less customers in a few years. rofl....


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

tracking ! lots of good info


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

TBA http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=191 

turn on 2 step go into maestro under cels its at the bottom then save then write new file in flash 

http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=672


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## dantheman18t (Oct 24, 2008)

Is there anyway of seeing AFR live on maestro


----------



## bananas (Mar 15, 2004)

raceTT said:


> has anyone tried to change the idle?
> mine dont works....


 Works fine on AMB motor


----------



## bananas (Mar 15, 2004)

dgmorr said:


> Can someone tell me what the difference is between Engine Load and Engine Load Spec.? And what is this measured in?
> Thanks.


 Engine load is the ACTUAL calculated engine load (AKA volumetric efficiency, AKA Cylinder Filling). From what I can tell, specified engine load appears to be values from Maximum VE, corrected for altitude and temperature.


----------



## DUBBED-OUT (Mar 21, 2008)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> 2 questions... How do I do a TBA? Arnold showed me, but I forget..
> 
> and how do I activate the 2 step? Thanks guys


 "Measuring Block" 
1: In the block selection field on the left hand side of the screen enter `60', then select `Switch To Basic Settings'. 

2: The words `ADAPT. RUN' will appear in the status field of the measuring blocks while the throttle body adaptation is taking place. 

3: When the status field reads `OK', select `Switch To Measuring Blocks' and you're done.


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Just installed w/m and want to adjust timing for that...can anyone tell me how to do this? I know how to take logs but not sure what I am looking at.


----------



## DUBBED-OUT (Mar 21, 2008)

Has anyone (MK4) or with MK4 dash for that matter relocated there ODB 2 port from underneath the dash to above the ash tray in the dash? 
Why you may ask/ I've read a thread about someone accidentally kicking the PowerTapp and Effing it up.... And so on. "Prevention Is Better Cure"
If anyone has any info on this modification, please share

thanks,


----------



## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Hi all. How do you minimize/hide the 3-D graph so you can see the complete chart and play with the numbers?


----------



## 04VDubGLI (May 20, 2005)

Interested reader bump


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## dantheman18t (Oct 24, 2008)

Hi dose anyone know know i can do logs without it saying timed out i have emailed chris but sill have not got a reply yet


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

So who here has successfully tuned their car with Maestro so far? Just curious.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

i have maestro 7 and im hoping someone can help me with something

I got a base 630cc file with the connector and right now I just started the car and im getting basically a "put put put baaaaaa" then the car stalls out

I was told that I should check to make sure my igition timing on the ECU matches the motor.... but i dont know how to do that..... can anyone help me out in here?


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

so im trying to take a look at my base file and on my machine now im getting a popup when i try and open M7 "Please download and install the latest version from www.eurodyne.ca"

what latest version.....


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

a4e3y5 said:


> Hi all. How do you minimize/hide the 3-D graph so you can see the complete chart and play with the numbers?


Txs!


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

gdoggmoney said:


> So who here has successfully tuned their car with Maestro so far? Just curious.


Not it!


----------



## hurtswhenipee (May 13, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> So who here has successfully tuned their car with Maestro so far? Just curious.


arnold installed mine, vw1990corrado has made adjustments, no issue


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

There is a little drop down thing on the right of the main screen. It says something like "slow, medium, and fast" put it on slow. Slow is still relatively fast.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

can someone tell me where the option for maf/mafless is?

i paid for it but i cant find it in the list.... whats it called?


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I get to send my ecu back likely for the second time now. My car has been down a week because the new version of maestro or eurodyne flash bricked my ecu............ 

YAY!

I also discovered that the graphs obscure a bunch of the maps... is that not cute?


I'm done with Maestro. Refund please, this $hit is for the birds.


----------



## 2muchboost (Nov 4, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> I get to send my ecu back likely for the second time now. My car has been down a week because the new version of maestro or eurodyne flash bricked my ecu............
> 
> YAY!
> 
> ...


WHAT!?!? What happened?


----------



## dantheman18t (Oct 24, 2008)

how do i add more fuel i fitted a aem wideband today afr at idle is 14.7-16.5 but as soon as i rev or drive it it gos off the gauge


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

revving the car doesn't really tell you anything on a wideband. Take it for a spin with the cruise control set...it should read 14.7 as a target but will vary from 14-15ish...When you are at full boost you are seeing lean numbers then worry.


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## dantheman18t (Oct 24, 2008)

in 2nd gear foot to the floor for about 300 yards i dont see a number on the gauge its that lean from the time i pull away i dont see a number its off the gauge the only time i see number it when it idles


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

What is your fueling? Injectors, pump, ect

You have this gauge?


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## dantheman18t (Oct 24, 2008)

Yeah thats the gauge i got bosch 1000cc high inp and a walbo 255

http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/domestic-high-performance-fuel-injectors/?itemid=1124
Thats where i got the injectors from


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

What does the swooping part do? Does everything just go blank? Run some logs and post those.


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## dantheman18t (Oct 24, 2008)

you have a pm


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## dantheman18t (Oct 24, 2008)

the swooping gos to the red and the numbers go and i get 3 lines there


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

replied


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## dantheman18t (Oct 24, 2008)

I think i may have found out why I'm getting bad afr i found i have a bad exhaust blow just before the 2 wideband 02 sensors


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

The first sensor (closest to the turbo) is the one that determines a/f ratio...if the leak is after that then it will not effect anything (accept maybe your gauge if the leak is before the gauge's sensor)


----------



## dantheman18t (Oct 24, 2008)

Yeah it is before that one as I'm only running one 02 sensor for the car and one for the wideband gauge. I don't have a cat


----------



## DUBBED-OUT (Mar 21, 2008)

I am running way to RICH oil is filled with gasoline @ idle rpm & boost jumps up and down. 
How do i cut the fuel down?
870cc mafless


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

what do your logs show?

EDIT: If you have enough gas in your oil you will ruin your rings...be careful and figure it out


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

new updates


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## SpeedWorksAutoTuning (Sep 8, 2008)

SO, I am now getting the "failed to start communications" error. I searched and everytime I saw someone post, they got a pm, and never really reported back on how they got it to work. 

I did a forced update several times:screwy:
I went from low to high speed several times
I unistalled/reinstalled several times:banghead:

How do you fix this?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

just to confirm you do have your key turn to on right?


----------



## SpeedWorksAutoTuning (Sep 8, 2008)

yup


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

I really wish their was an option to turn 2 step on or off with a button instead of having to reflash the car =/


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

why is it that eurodyne offers a 1000cc file but in the injector wizard the options only go up to 910cc?

i know you can manually scale them but i found that strange.


i also scaled my injectors yesterday and now my car will not start. it cranks but will not fire.

this is a 1000cc file on 1200cc injectors (scaled) i guess i'll just go back to 1000cc and see if she fires up.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

That is because the base file is based on the custom 910cc injectors (hi impedence) provided by me. :thumbup:


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

oh gotcha, al so if im running a base 1000cc file and have 1200cc injectors...

can i scale it by entering in "old injector size(1000) and new injector size (1200)"


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

anyone else still having the no lift shift thing where it backfires everyshift... i love the 2 step but cuz the no lift shift i dont run it


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

ANY no lift shift will pop a flame when you shift. This is caused by the ignition lighting off the additinal fuel leftover from the igniton being killed for split second each shift. this is not a defect or a "bacfire". A backfire is when the engine fires backwards through the intake tract. I doubt that you are experiencing this.

These features are intended for racing not the street. If it bothers you simply dont use it.. It would be impossible to create a no lift shift feature that behaves any differently than described.

And to anyone having trouble flashing their ecu.. Try flashing it with the key off. Mine works everytime when I do it this way.. Hope this helps


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I have so many questions I'm not sure where I should start... lol. I need a solid couple of days to get more acquainted w/ the logging/tracing process so I can get my tune in order.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

> ANY no lift shift will pop a flame when you shift. This is caused by the ignition lighting off the additinal fuel leftover from the igniton being killed for split second each shift. this is not a defect or a "bacfire". A backfire is when the engine fires backwards through the intake tract. I doubt that you are experiencing this.
> 
> These features are intended for racing not the street. If it bothers you simply dont use it.. It would be impossible to create a no lift shift feature that behaves any differently than described.


O yea I know that. even when I am wide open throttle it does it its really annoying. This is how it goes WOT-clutch-shift-dropclutch- hesitate-kaboom-hesitate-vroooooooooommmmmm... when regular cruising the hesitates are even longer..


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

after i make any maestro changes and reflash, my car just cranks and will not start. i have to always revert back to the base map


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

halchka99 said:


> after i make any maestro changes and reflash, my car just cranks and will not start. i have to always revert back to the base map


 It hates you as much as mine hates me.... I'll have to try that one i havent reflashed mine since like 2 versions ago


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

Lol i am begining to think this as well, its driving me nuts


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## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

DUBBED-OUT said:


> Has anyone (MK4) or with MK4 dash for that matter relocated there ODB 2 port from underneath the dash to above the ash tray in the dash?
> Why you may ask/ I've read a thread about someone accidentally kicking the PowerTapp and Effing it up.... And so on. "Prevention Is Better Cure"
> If anyone has any info on this modification, please share
> 
> thanks,


if you unscrew the two screws holding it in you can get about 14inches of wire. other than that u would have to extend it. i relocated mine just depends what u want to do


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Sure sounds like there isn't a single user that has not had major issues flashing maps.


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

its becoming very frustrating. 1k spent and i have yet to be able to even use it


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

I've had mine for over a year without any problems


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

so who out there is using the n75 or you guys on mbc's or ebc's


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

I'm running a MBC, Just got my car going last weekend and before I ripped out the N75 talked to Al, and he said just leave it plugged in electronically and stuff it out of the way... I haven't even had time to check out Maestro yet


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## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

I'm running an N75 valve...


----------



## 2muchboost (Nov 4, 2009)

Does anyone know exactly which parts have to stay plugged in electrically (or with resistors) to keep the adaptive channels working properly???


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

Air fuel ratios

Im having a lot of trouble right now with my

Innovate Motorsports OT-2 which was supposed to allow me to display my AFR on my iPhone

right now im inches away from taking my car for a drive to see what the ratios are like but i dont have a display

can anyone on here tell me if I can use the eurodyne software to read my AFR while im driving?


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## 04VDubGLI (May 20, 2005)

Sorry if this has been answered, but with Maestro can you get adaptation without resistors? I saw a similiar question just above mine... for me it's a bit more of an issue though because the emissions stuff has literally been cut out of the harness(es) so resistors would have to go somewhere else if at all anywhere.

Also, if I picked up a 630cc file could I still run it MAF'd? Does anyone know the specifics of something like that with Maestro?


----------



## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

duke_seb said:


> Air fuel ratios
> 
> Im having a lot of trouble right now with my
> 
> ...


Go to measuring blocks. Type "31" below where you see "1". You'll be looking at the second row...actual AFR...the first row is actual AFR


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## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

question on getting started here.

i am swapping to a same part # ecu to sell my revostg3 ecu

are these the basic steps i will be taking

first step just ordering it from there website. they send me the powertap interface

second step, install my new ecu. and have friend initialize the ecu with my instrument cluster.

third step. read the new ecu with the powertap. save the file and send it to eurodyne. 

get the file back and follow the install proccess???/ thanks in advance for confirming these steps to take.



one other question. is who do i actually contact to talk to at eurodyne to make sure everything goes smoothly


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

Dobt forget the immoilizrr


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## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

duke_seb said:


> Dobt forget the immoilizrr


 is this neccesary if its immo2 and same part #. i thought the ecu just had to be linked to the cluster.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

Ecu, cluster , ignition and think the drivers door lockets cheaper to just disable the immo


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

The part number just confirms it will work in your car..... Every ecu has it's own coding to those parts


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## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

alright well, i am pretty sure i can have this sent in the file when i recieve my tuned file.

hopefully i can install the new ecu and just turn the ingnition on to read the ecu. then send the file and recieve the tuned one with the immo defeat.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

Yes and yes


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## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

duke_seb said:


> Yes and yes


 thanks. just ordered.


----------



## Bigjuice (Jul 31, 2006)

Has anyone used the Maestro with the ME5 ecu with 830cc file?


----------



## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

trying to open eurodyne flash and maestro 7 files. they are installed. message appears.

"failed to load FTD2XX.DLL. Are the FTDI drivers installed?"

i opened both setup files and installed CDM2060

it still opens maestro but everything is empty and eurodyne flash opens and freezes. anyone help here


btw i just downloaded the stuff today. going to read ecu this weekend.



ok so. i wanted to update the stuff above. i plugged the cable in with the box and it opens both programs but the eurodyne flash still acts a little glitchy. 
i guess i will see how everything goes this weekend once i get my ecu read


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

i was wondering if there is a way to read air/fuel with maestro whiel driving? 
what type of measurement is it? what ratio's are you big turbo 2.0l guys running?

thanks


----------



## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

derekb727 said:


> i was wondering if there is a way to read air/fuel with maestro whiel driving?
> what type of measurement is it? what ratio's are you big turbo 2.0l guys running?
> 
> thanks


Go to measuring blocks...type "31" right below "1".....u will get requested and actual afr


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

a4e3y5 said:


> Go to measuring blocks...type "31" right below "1".....u will get requested and actual afr


got it


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...dGJobFNVTE9NRXZyeS1oZVZFR3c&hl=en&output=html 

help, lol 

lead me in the right direction... 

how does it look? 

advice, direction, help is greatly appreciated 

thanks


----------



## DISTURBO (Apr 15, 2003)

your getting to much timing pull. you dont wanna have no more then -4.5:thumbup:


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

how do you change that? 

what causes it to be pulled?


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Question from looking at logs, the 02 correction. Is that only on MAFLESS files or do MAF'd files have 02 correction as well? 

I thought most ECM's ran closed loop on full throttle where there is no 02 correction (only open loop). 
So if your running MAFLESS is the car in open loop all the time? I'm used to comparing actual AFR vs requested and making adjustments to the table as needed. I guess its not much different but I'd think closed loop system would be easier to tune, given the ECM isn't learning and adjusting on the fly.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

derekb727 said:


> how do you change that?
> 
> what causes it to be pulled?


 Not to be a jerk, but with questions like this, it seems Maestro is getting into ill-prepared hands.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

elRey said:


> Not to be a jerk, but with questions like this, it seems Maestro is getting into ill-prepared hands.


 i kno why its being pulled and i kno how to fix it. i ask the questions to see if i can get an answer that i didnt already come up with. im 19 and doing alot more than most other 19 yr olds are with my car. what where you doing at 19? im sure you were not trying to tune your own car. 
thanks 

fyi, its being pulled b/c my intercooler is way small and is heatsoaking. so if you look at the timing corrections for IAT in maestro it shows that it is pulling what it should be based on the intake temps. 

so pick someone else to troll on. or post some helpful stuff rather than bash on someone that could be your


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

Hey, I think Rey was just pointing out that u shouldnt mess around if your not sure u have a piece of software that can seriously **** up your car 

Rey is an expert on here give him a some credit


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

duke_seb said:


> Hey, I think Rey was just pointing out that u shouldnt mess around if your not sure u have a piece of software that can seriously **** up your car
> 
> Rey is an expert on here give him a some credit


 Expert Troll that is


----------



## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

hey guys. quick questions here. 

i got the programs installed on my computer and i will be putting my new ecu in to scan soon. 
trying to figure out the best configuration so i can finish my intercooler piping and decide what options to specify for initial tune. 

my q's: 
can i run a blow off valve on the with-maf file without problems? 
i am trying to run the maf file, can i weld a maf bung into my 4in inlet pipe? and get a tune adjusted for that? 


current pic but i am changing the intercooler setup


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

elRey said:


> Expert Troll that is


 ok well i apologize to you elray. i will take what you said and learn from it. thanks for the input. i retarded the timing 3* across the map and turned the boost down aprox 3-4 psi. i am getting alot less timing retard and the powerband seems to be alot more smooth. im going to be going to the dragstrip on friday so that will be where the real test is. i am going to be very prepared to conquer the heat soak i am experiencing. spraying the intercooler with ice cold water from a deck sealer sprayer pump thingy. lol. and also have a 50lbs bottle of c02 to spray as well. hopefully i can keep my intake temps lower than 50*C. also, al at pagparts has me believing that spool is as late as it is due to my cheap ass going with the ebay intercooler. (to be replaced with possibly a precision 600 and w/m setup)


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Hey Derek talk to AL about his 550hp garret cores, I got one from him and its damn nice!!! He did all the piping for me also


----------



## volksspoolen (Feb 13, 2005)

anyone having problems with 'get info' or flashing ecu with the latest version of Flash? all I get is "error: fail"

the "lemmiwinks" portion works OK


----------



## Boomdaddymack (Jun 19, 2002)

vwturbowolf said:


> hey guys. quick questions here.
> 
> i got the programs installed on my computer and i will be putting my new ecu in to scan soon.
> trying to figure out the best configuration so i can finish my intercooler piping and decide what options to specify for initial tune.
> ...


 if you have the ability to go mafless why would you worry about it. if you run the maff then run a diverter valve. if you go maffless go with your blow off valve. just my 2 cents


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

I didn't really say anything you could learn from. So, let me make up for that. Learn you associate your 'Engine Load' and 'RPM' columns from your logs to cells on your timing map. Find the offending cells (load/rpm points from log that have high retard), and reduce timing relative the the amount of retard in those cells on the map.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

thanks elray. sorry for snapping at you. i will take a look at it all and try to figure something up 


i ended up taking -3* avg and smoothing out the timing map a lot. i also added a ot of timing (7-12*) off boost, low load at low rpm. it feels a lot more peppy and responsive off boost now and isn't pulling hardly any timing... max -3.5*


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

if this has been covered please excuse it but with the "pump gas and race gas" setting, are they just so YOU can define your own maps? by default both have the same exact tune or out of the box maestro gives you a gas and race map?


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

they are both diffrent maps. if I remeber the race only has bumped up timing


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

got it, thanks for the reply. a picture incase people are wondering:


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

yes, it just toggles b/w timing maps

derek, reducing overall timing will keep your base timing lower so you, naturally, wont be pulling as much timing. Increasing offboost timing is a good idea but in your logs, that seems to be pretty high anyway. This however, doesnt address the 66deg C IAT's you're seeing in the upper rpms/load which is basically hot enough to cook...


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> yes, it just toggles b/w timing maps


 right.. but by "default" they are 2 different maps


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

halchka99 said:


> right.. but by "default" they are 2 different maps


 correct


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

Ok...quick question...Does anyone know if the Base tune for a gt28rs with 630's is written for a stock MAF housing or for a 3"? I have a almost perfect running car now thanks to Eurodyne but have a wicked +16% fuel correction at part load. Seeing how I am running a 3" MAF that could account for it if it's based on a stock size. Idle correction is spot on @ +1.2%


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

derekb727 said:


> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...dGJobFNVTE9NRXZyeS1oZVZFR3c&hl=en&output=html
> 
> help, lol
> 
> ...


 You have corrections of 9 to 22 plus... I'd add about 10% to you fuel injector constant to start with. Then log again...


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

*Found my issue*

Never mind I found my issue....seems I had the wrong MAF in the car. Chris's base file is using a 2000 S4 MAF. I had the stock one in APR's 3"housing....FAIL. I swapped in a TT 225 sensor and loaded the MAP for that MAF and car is now friggin perfect...Can't believe I pissed around with APR's crappy software for as long as I did. I never thought a BT car could be perfectly civilized and well mannered as this car is with Eurodyne. I highly rec it to anyone running an APR Stage3 or 3+ car...you will be amazed how much better it runs.


----------



## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

anybodys flash client screen glitch out constantly?


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

turn the read time down to slow


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

slow didnt work for me on an AWP ECU..... but medium seemed to work


----------



## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

ok i deleted everything and just downloaded the 3 programs again. they are still in zip format..

i found this to install the driver but i do not find a file like that in the folder

"When you order the Eurodyne Re-Flash, you will be sent a package containing the Powertap ODB2 cable and an email with a login and password to our secure site.
1. Sign in to the Eurodyne website and download the EurodyneFlashInstaller.zip file to your laptop and extract it.

2. Open the extracted folder and first install the CDM.exe drivers.

3. Then run the setup.exe. A shortcut to Eurodyne Flash will be created on your desktop."



the closest thing i see in the setup folder is CDM20600, the icon is a colored circle thing. when i run that program it brings up a screen that i see it say installing driver, but its gone in about 3 seconds. does this mean i installed the driver correctly


----------



## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

sent off my save file...yay


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

u guys think E85 will be enough to switch to the " high octane file?"


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

halchka99 said:


> u guys think E85 will be enough to switch to the " high octane file?"


No your going to need to increase fueling approx. 30% more. You don't want the ECM trying to adapt 30% more fuel in-- if its even capable of that. I believe stock ECM can only adapt 20/25% max. As far as octane I think you will be okay.


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

gotcha, yeah i was concerned about the octane.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Are you guys doing a normal 2k-redline 3rd gear pull for creating logs to trace with? I need to get some timing back into this map I'm messing with when I'm out of boost. It's a dog until the turbo kicks in.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Anybody actually tuning with this yet? I went to the dyno this weekend and was able to very quickly add major fuel up top by just tweaking the alpha n fuel map. These new cams we are working on are f'in beasts, had to add a bunch of fuel up top to a map already tuned for cams.


----------



## bakana (Sep 18, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> . These *new cams *we are working on are f'in beasts, had to add a bunch of fuel up top to a map already tuned for cams.


And what would they be?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

Better question is... has anyone successfully tuned with this software yet? Mine seems like it's a constant work-in-progress!


----------



## HaTeDDub (Jun 9, 2008)

[


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

screwball said:


> Are you guys doing a normal 2k-redline 3rd gear pull for creating logs to trace with? I need to get some timing back into this map I'm messing with when I'm out of boost. It's a dog until the turbo kicks in.


.


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

My car is the same... an absolute dog under 4000 RPM.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

2literA2 said:


> My car is the same... an absolute dog under 4000 RPM.


Why not start adding timing in low load areas of the timing map? Should this solution that issue?


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

elRey said:


> Why not start adding timing in low load areas of the timing map? Should this solution that issue?


It should help as long you don't have crappy Ohio gas... and detonate all the time. I'm still trying to get fueling right before I start messing w/ timing.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

2literA2 said:


> It should help as long you don't have crappy Ohio gas... and detonate all the time. I'm still trying to get fueling right before I start messing w/ timing.


Even in low load driving you're pulling timing? Where are you at with fueling? (i.e. why do you need to change tune)


----------



## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

A seemingly Off question, 

for a "feature" of the program, has anyone suggested turning up the refresh rate to the DBW pedal?

The same idea of those "products" that are out on the market?


----------



## bananas (Mar 15, 2004)

This is what your logs should look like... 27 psi with and without meth injection: 
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...DVwMTNMNG1uVXNtbkctWnc&hl=en&authkey=CJ7cpNML


----------



## bakana (Sep 18, 2005)

> This is what your logs should look like... 27 psi with and without meth injection:
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...thkey=CJ7cpNML


 Does the actual boost read in mbar like Vagcom? Im coming up with 36 psi not 27. Just curious. Full boost by 4k average, what trubo you running?


----------



## bananas (Mar 15, 2004)

bakana said:


> Does the actual boost read in mbar like Vagcom? Im coming up with 36 psi not 27. Just curious. Full boost by 4k average, what trubo you running?


 Yep, just like vag-com it's in mbar absolute, so subtract atmospheric pressure (about 970 at my altitude). However, as you likely know, the stock MAP sensor maxes out at approximately 2540 absolute, which is about 22.5psi on the gauge. You can see the 27ish psi in the video below. 

It's an HTA2868 or GT2868 or whatever you kids are calling it these days (28RS with HTA 68mm wheel). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fY6no9rLVk


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

anyone having problems doing logs with the newest update... Went to do some last night and everytime it would pop up saying too many errors or unable to read ecu... sucks because im trying to tune it again


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I got errors all this morning about not being able to connect to the cable even though it was logging while it kept popping up. I'm so sick of trying to get this to work I think I'm just gonna throw 630s in because there's a decent tune for that and the 70mm TB already instead of making tinkering w/ the 870s


----------



## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

is there anyway to contact chris tapp other than [email protected]????g 

i recieve my base file and tried to flash it. after the first loading bar finished while "verifying" 
a screen came up and said "license not valid for this vehicle". i was never able to enter the license he sent me. 

is there another way of entering the lisence in.?? 

helpssssss.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

vwturbowolf said:


> is there anyway to contact chris tapp other than [email protected]????g
> 
> i recieve my base file and tried to flash it. after the first loading bar finished while "verifying"
> a screen came up and said "license not valid for this vehicle". i was never able to enter the license he sent me.
> ...


 pm'd ya


----------



## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

thanks weener,.got it running and took it out last night. 


the menu here sets up to 2 step settings, is it also what you use to set the rev limit on the car or just for 2 stepping. or is this done somewhere else. thanks guys 




halchka99 said:


> got it, thanks for the reply. a picture incase people are wondering:


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

finnaly got it to do some logs last night anyone wanna take a look at um?


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

i know its a lil long but if anyone wants to look at it and throw some suggestions please do... thanks guys.. 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub...MkRhN0JCbGprTTJybzRLSVNNT3c&hl=en&output=html


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## storx (Dec 6, 2006)

any of yall running E85?? curious to see all the folks tuning to e85 on maestro.. and thinking of throwing together a guide once i gather all the critical info to make a correct tune...


----------



## CupraDR (Feb 22, 2009)

I like it! 

Any chance to have a BT file for SEAT 1.8T/225 AMK engine? It is the same than audi TT!


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

I'm beginning to get a bit frustrated with this instability of the software as of late. Anyone else who's been around a while notice the same thing?

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

I haven't dived into the maestro part yet but my reading & flashing has gone pretty smooth so far.


----------



## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

No mine is fine ...and I'm an idiot. I think my car performs next to perfect on the stock tune with a few minor tweaks.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

playing around with maestro a lil while work today... did some smoothing went off of this let you guys know how it goes tommorow 
http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=742


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Was Just thinking.... MAybe we should petition to have the title of this thead changed.. To something more appropriate.. Like.... I dunno... Maybe; 

* Hey I just bought this schit, and im in way over my head.. Can anyone help?* 

Just a thought...


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## rickross667 (May 12, 2009)

i removed the evap, sai,n249, and all of that stuff and i want to remove my maf too..how do i make it so i dont get the cel and make it mafless?


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Swap in a set of 630's and go into maestro and make the changes.. it will run just fine.. Its all there 


Hey rick.. pm me


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## rickross667 (May 12, 2009)

pm sent


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Was Just thinking.... MAybe we should petition to have the title of this thead changed.. To something more appropriate.. Like.... I dunno... Maybe;
> 
> * Hey I just bought this schit, and im in way over my head.. Can anyone help?*
> 
> Just a thought...


 yea pretty much man...


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Was Just thinking.... MAybe we should petition to have the title of this thead changed.. To something more appropriate.. Like.... I dunno... Maybe;
> 
> * Hey I just bought this schit, and im in way over my head.. Can anyone help?*
> 
> Just a thought...


LOL, I'd be the one of the first to post in that one :laugh:


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Hey; It is what it is.. Ever hear the phrase "Be careful what you wish for"? Well weve all been wishing for years and, Mr TAPP finally said "Fack It" and obliged.. Personally id never release something like this.. I have no clue how the guy can find time to sleep:screwy:


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Hey; It is what it is.. Ever hear the phrase "Be careful what you wish for"? Well weve all been wishing for years and, Mr TAPP finally said "Fack It" and obliged.. Personally id never release something like this.. I have no clue how the guy can find time to sleep:screwy:


after 3 hours of playing around today with it i have a headache.. his head must be bout to explode


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## rickross667 (May 12, 2009)

dubin your inbox is full


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

I dunno.. Personally i think Chris Tapp's head must look like this http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=9F5jTPWnKsHflgfZ0sS2Dw&ved=0CCEQ9QEwAg


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

Suppose your ecu goes bad since its not uncommon to do so and then you have to get another ecu

Do you have to purchase maestro again?


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

No.. you simply buy another stock ECU, and send the bad one back to TAPP to confirm that your not trying to pull a fast one. Then he sends you another liscence for the new ecu:thumbup:


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

Well after doin the throttle crap it was interesting. May turn it down a lil as its a tad jumpy but nice for just crusin round in 2nd or 3rd and you just want a lil umph. Fun tho


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

Curious if anyone is running one of his stock out of the box tunes. I just picked up an 03 for a daily and I think since the BT/Maestro stuff is really nice I am going to use his basic stage 1 on the 03.


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

Is the 2 step engaged by the clutch cruise safety switch or the starting neutral safety switch ? Thx


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

weenerdog3443 said:


> Well after doin the throttle crap it was interesting. May turn it down a lil as its a tad jumpy but nice for just crusin round in 2nd or 3rd and you just want a lil umph. Fun tho


This will be one of the first things I start to adjust to help off boost response. Good writeup on the Eurodyne forums on doing this (thanks if thats your thread).



Does anyone know of any good threads/posts or online resources on adjusting the ignition timing? I have a basic understanding of the function but am looking for some guidlines or curve suggestions to help get me started. Of course I will do some logging before any adjustments are made but I'm trying to reseach & learn if there are any general rules of thumb to follow.


----------



## dubtec (Sep 5, 2007)

> any of yall running E85?? curious to see all the folks tuning to e85 on maestro.. and thinking of throwing together a guide once i gather all the critical info to make a correct tune...


I am, been on this set up for almost a year now. (dealers get pre release betas to test). 
20 AE gti, e85, 630cc., walbro 255, 3" turbo back, everything else totally stock!
247whp, 262 wtq. ground up maestro 7 tune. 
If you want any info hit me up. :thumbup:


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## dubtec (Sep 5, 2007)

If you (or anyone else) is interested in doing this conversion i can supply 
the file i wrote for any maestro user.:beer:


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## dubtec (Sep 5, 2007)

> Is the 2 step engaged by the clutch cruise safety switch or the starting neutral safety switch ? Thx


Clutch cruise.


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> This will be one of the first things I start to adjust to help off boost response. Good writeup on the Eurodyne forums on doing this (thanks if thats your thread).
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know of any good threads/posts or online resources on adjusting the ignition timing? I have a basic understanding of the function but am looking for some guidlines or curve suggestions to help get me started. Of course I will do some logging before any adjustments are made but I'm trying to reseach & learn if there are any general rules of thumb to follow.


no its not my thread but i kinda went off of what his settings were.. def gonna have to turn it down a lil tho because its very touchy... its expecially noticable in first gear where you could be barely pushin on it like normal and then 3k rpms and its really zippy... does anyone recomend changing anything else if you are to change that throttle vs. airflow map


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

dubtec said:


> Clutch cruise.



Thanks a ton.


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## volksspoolen (Feb 13, 2005)

*Throttle vs. airflow*

I tried that guys suggestion on Throttle vs. airflow, as previously stated it is too touchy. what I ended up doing was lowering all the values under 100 by 5%, could still use some tweaking but it is much better


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

volksspoolen said:


> I tried that guys suggestion on Throttle vs. airflow, as previously stated it is too touchy. what I ended up doing was lowering all the values under 100 by 5%, could still use some tweaking but it is much better



1st gear really seems to be the only touchy part. But it feels a ton better then stock =D


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

volksspoolen said:


> I tried that guys suggestion on Throttle vs. airflow, as previously stated it is too touchy. what I ended up doing was lowering all the values under 100 by 5%, could still use some tweaking but it is much better


im gonna give that a shot tonight... like dub nub said its first gear where you really notice it


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

weenerdog3443 said:


> im gonna give that a shot tonight... like dub nub said its first gear where you really notice it



I need to turn my down even more. I just turned my a/c on and was cruising at like 10 vac, thats crazy


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

anyone know where the best place to adjust richness is? I am getting down to .75x on top end and have turned the primary fuel adj to 80% with no luck, stays exactly the same.

P.S. 25psi is awesome :laugh:


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> I need to turn my down even more. I just turned my a/c on and was cruising at like 10 vac, thats crazy


even more than the 5%


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## volksspoolen (Feb 13, 2005)

> anyone know where the best place to adjust richness is? I am getting down to .75x on top end and have turned the primary fuel adj to 80% with no luck, stays exactly the same.
> 
> P.S. 25psi is awesome


injector constant

what file you running? 630?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

volksspoolen said:


> injector constant
> 
> what file you running? 630?


Yes, 630 file. 58.5 psi via injection wizard. I may need to drop it down to like 55. any easy way to figure out the injector constant?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

this problem is not necessary related to maestro but it happened while using maestro to flash and read trouble codes on the car im hoping someone can help in here... it seems like this is the place the computer gods seem to hang out

here is the problem that ive noticed

yesterday on the dyno we had a couple codes pop up and when we went to erase them we had a problem with the reader not being after to see the ECU... 

also we now cant start the car it only cranks

I called a local vw shop to see if there were any fuses or relays or anyhting i could easily take a looks at he suggested that on a number of mk4's if an aftermarket stereo isnt wired correctly at some point you could loose comms with your ECU... so I unplugged that and then unplugged the battery for about 30mins

plugged the battery back on and I could read the ECU and had a code for the cam sensor as i expected because we were trying to erase that code yesterday when everything stopped working

so I tried to start it again and it cranked like last night

I put the reader back on and I cant access the ECU again... i just unplugged the battery again

but im wondering if anyone can think of anything to check?

AWP wiring and ECU is whats in the car


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

duke_seb said:


> this problem is not necessary related to maestro but it happened while using maestro to flash and read trouble codes on the car im hoping someone can help in here... it seems like this is the place the computer gods seem to hang out
> 
> here is the problem that ive noticed
> 
> ...


sounds to me like the crank position sensor... they are known to just go out unexpectedly and when they do your motor will keep cranking but wont fire over... easy to replace tho.. when i was doing my turbo install i had the same issue n and as soon as i replaced it fired right up... 

http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/...3C_Crank_Position_Sensor_OEM&products_id=1367


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

But how would that explain the ecu not working?


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Last week I had to reinstall Maestro because I started getting all these connection and communication errors out of nowhere. I'd make sure you laptop has the latest microsoft and eurodyne updates and then try again.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Has anyone had issues turning of switching? I couldn't then t
It off at all.


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

I have noticed some read errors as well but it simply requires a restart of the program and it usually reads ok. I also have had to start car and rev up a few times and then it will read ok. I mean it's not like Chris has a million dollar budget to work with here so there is some bugginess to it. Heck I still can't datalog in high speed ode but I know of a car locally that is the exact twin to ours and he can.:screwy::screwy: I feel confident future upgrades will address this.


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## wooly808 (Oct 5, 2009)

I know this has probably been covered so I apologoze for the re-ask.

Do you get unlimited downloads of Chris' base tunes, or just once? EX: If I get a GT28 630 file and later I decide to go AEB/Intake mani/big TB/GT30/830s do is there dropdowns to select what turbo you have/injectors/head etc, or can you download a new base tune for that setup, or do you need to tweak all the values like pure standalone?

Thanks for the help.


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## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

You get a single base tune. The software gives you the flexibility to tune for the additional parts later. 

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## hurtswhenipee (May 13, 2009)

anyone have a 70 mm tb file for 870 cc injectors on maestro?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I ran the 630cc/70mm file w/ the injectors set for 830s and it's a starting point to tweak everything. With minor futzing around the best I was able to get the fuel trims to was -3.5/17. I nabbed a set of 630s to pop in tonite to see if it's much better on that file.


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## hurtswhenipee (May 13, 2009)

screwball said:


> I ran the 630cc/70mm file w/ the injectors set for 830s and it's a starting point to tweak everything. With minor futzing around the best I was able to get the fuel trims to was -3.5/17. I nabbed a set of 630s to pop in tonite to see if it's much better on that file.


i emailed chris tapp- hopefully he can tweak that one and send it


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

There's new updates to download guys.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

screwball said:


> There's new updates to download guys.


Im waiting for the one that has 2step toggle only


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

screwball said:


> There's new updates to download guys.


Anyone else getting an error "Flash Cable Not Found" when they try to load maps in maestro? There is no way I'm hooking my laptop up to the car everything I want to play w/ a map.:what:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

You're getting that and you've got the usb/power module plugged into your desktop computer? You can't run Maestro w/out that connected.

Anyone know if there's a way to add boost by gear to the software? Something that limits boost in first gear to 66.7%, limits boost in second to 85% and then 100% for the remaining gears?


----------



## raceTT (Jun 4, 2009)

*Support*

hi,i know this thread is for the tuning but...

anyone knows if chris is alive? is from the 11 that i dont receive mails from him, and its a problem because my car is blocked because the program says my license is not valid.....

thanks


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

screwball said:


> You're getting that and you've got the usb/power module plugged into your desktop computer? You can't run Maestro w/out that connected.


No I don't have it plugged in. Why would I need the USB/Power module connected to edit & tune maps in maestro? I'm not reflashing the car, I'm simply trying to open a map for editing like I've done 100x before .


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Why does Tapp require the dongel to adjust maestro files? I'm sure it's for added security w/ his software, but you'd have to ask him yourself. I have never been able to manipulate any of the maps since I installed all this back in June w/out the Dongel connected. 

RaceTT, I was having the same "maestro locked" problem yesterday - I had installed an older version over a newer one and it popped up. Once I installed the latest version I was fine.


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

raceTT said:


> hi,i know this thread is for the tuning but...
> 
> anyone knows if chris is alive? is from the 11 that i dont receive mails from him, and its a problem because my car is blocked because the program says my license is not valid.....
> 
> thanks


You have log in at Eurodyne website and download new updates:thumbup:


----------



## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

I just put my car back to stock for the time being and since i will be doing the wideband swap soon i have a couple of questions.


Can i turn off immobilizer and any deletes i want in a stock ecu ( 2003 golf 1.8t 5 spd ecu) if i buy maestro now? and possibly just flash it with just a regular chip for a while , while im gathering parts for BT and then get a BT file flashed over 

Reason i ask is, it adds up for immobilizer defeats vvt off evap etc and since i plan on going with maestro anyway i would buy it now and do it myself instead of sending out ecu etc and paying basically 2x for the same deletes

does this make sense or should i just wait it out. Id also like to make sure the car runs fine with wideband swap before going BT


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

You can do exactly what you want. You send them an ECU (ebay, classifieds, your personal ECU), they do the immo defeat and throw on the base file. In your case you would get their stock turbo "chipped" file. You can request additional files later down the line once you've got your setup all picked out. Regarding the deletes and other stuff, there's a huge section in Maestro dedicated to just that.


----------



## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

screwball said:


> You can do exactly what you want. You send them an ECU (ebay, classifieds, your personal ECU), they do the immo defeat and throw on the base file. In your case you would get their stock turbo "chipped" file. You can request additional files later down the line once you've got your setup all picked out. Regarding the deletes and other stuff, there's a huge section in Maestro dedicated to just that.


So I can't turn off immobilizer by myself? I still have to send out the ecu?


----------



## ricky_vwt (Nov 30, 2005)

duke_seb said:


> this problem is not necessary related to maestro but it happened while using maestro to flash and read trouble codes on the car im hoping someone can help in here... it seems like this is the place the computer gods seem to hang out
> 
> here is the problem that ive noticed
> 
> ...


Sorry my friend but it looks like your eprom just crapped out.Happened to my ecu not to long ago,it will start by shutting off, you'll get some funny codes some times.Let the ECu cool down, before cranking car again unplug the ECU from harness, plug it back and try to start the car if it starts your ECU is on it way to graveyard.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

FastAndFurious said:


> So I can't turn off immobilizer by myself? I still have to send out the ecu?


i dont think so. i had to send a spare ecu in.


----------



## raceTT (Jun 4, 2009)

screwball said:


> RaceTT, I was having the same "maestro locked" problem yesterday - I had installed an older version over a newer one and it popped up. Once I installed the latest version I was fine.



i have done all update, windows and the programs ,but dont works, i am waiting chris send me another code.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Anyone else having troubling displaying logs in logviewer since the update? I took about 5 logs yesterday and everytime I run any of them I get an error message while they run and they don't display on the graph.


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## raceTT (Jun 4, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Anyone else having troubling displaying logs in logviewer since the update? I took about 5 logs yesterday and everytime I run any of them I get an error message while they run and they don't display on the graph.


i have never seen the graphs logs,(and never seen messages on the screen, only nothing happens) but have never tryied to do with the last flash version


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

alright some more playing with the throttle v. airflow map so I got some questions for you guys. The alpha n map is suppose to be a inverse of t v. airflow map and you are suppose to make changes to them corresponding to each other.. so say on the throttle map you select some cells and add say 30% would you take the corresponding cells in the alpha n map and do the same add30% or whatever you change it??

Alos any of you guys with 50 trims play with your timing maps at all?? and what did you do to them

thanks guys


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I've been spending evenings smoothing out my timing map. I don't show any timing pull in the logs I've done so I keep bumping it up and relogging. I'm running their 630/70mm file right now. 

I have a bunch of drivability issues under low load and relatively low rpm that I need to smooth out. The car hiccups between on and off throttle in traffic that's terribly annoying.


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

cant flash sh1t with the new version of flash... all types of errors


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## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

i've got the 70mm/1000cc tune and i'm running 80mm with 1200s. The car idles pig rich and starts to stumble when boosting because it's that rich. Now i've used the wizard to change from 1000 to 1200 and it's still undriveable. Should i just keep lowering injector constant until it idles nicely? I used the wizard to change from 1000cccc to 1500cc and it seemed to run a little better with the 1200s


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Tapp doesn't have any answers for you?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Finally adjusted my alpha N values. I will reflash and test drive soon.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Yeah fill us in, I'm curious if those changes will affect my light load/low rpm hiccups.


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> Finally adjusted my alpha N values. I will reflash and test drive soon.


i got ya.... see what i can **** up now lol


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Its been raining all day today so i cant really test it >_


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> Its been raining all day today so i cant really test it >_


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

also anyone else having problems flashing with the new version of flash... tried it last night and everytime it'd get an error and shut it down right as it began to read the car... so im back to the version before it..


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## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

screwball said:


> Tapp doesn't have any answers for you?


No answers for me, i basically have to learn everything. I noticed that maestro is not reading my actual AFR. I traced every wire from the brand new o2 right to the ecu. Everything rings out. I made a log and it looks like at peak boost im at 5* timing.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

You're logging block 031 and it's not telling you your actual lambda? In their 'general logging' feature these versions don't support block 031 yet, but they've been asked to add that so it's prolly just a matter of time before it's in there.

I have pretty low timing up top too, although I'm trying to work on that. There's definitely limited info to go around w/ this thing. Bananas on the EuroD forum seems pretty acclimated to the software, perhaps he can help.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

weenerdog3443 said:


> also anyone else having problems flashing with the new version of flash... tried it last night and everytime it'd get an error and shut it down right as it began to read the car... so im back to the version before it..


weener make sure to log some things like afr, timing


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

After further review of the maps i am wondering a few things. With the change in the throttle angle vs airflow map, i am thinking that the kg/hr of airflow also needs to be adjusted accordingly. On the base 630cc map, at 50% throttle its 680 and at 100% throttle its 2050. If we are adjusting the jump on the last two rows from 80-100% on the airflow map, the kg/hr should also be adjusted as it will be seeing more air..no?

I sent an email to chris to confirm but the table below may be what is needed if adjustment are to be made all over the table.


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

well with just changing the blue column on the left its reall nice... smooth coming on but stil got a lil of the go without the jerkyness



Dub-Nub said:


> weener make sure to log some things like afr, timing


Ill take some on my way home today



Dub-Nub said:


> After further review of the maps i am wondering a few things. With the change in the throttle angle vs airflow map, i am thinking that the kg/hr of airflow also needs to be adjusted accordingly. On the base 630cc map, at 50% throttle its 680 and at 100% throttle its 2050. If we are adjusting the jump on the last two rows from 80-100% on the airflow map, the kg/hr should also be adjusted as it will be seeing more air..no?
> 
> I sent an email to chris to confirm but the table below may be what is needed if adjustment are to be made all over the table.


I was thinking that but i unno hopefully hell send you something back


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

i hope he sends me something back also.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

this 630/70mm file is totally frustrating...


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

U have a file for that? I need one like that


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Yes, there's a 630/70mm file available. I've put about 500 miles on the car since Friday night and this thing needs a lot of tweaks.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

This is what I got from eurodyne support

n theory if your intake manifold and throttle body are stock, those maps should not require modification.

I can tell you that those two maps are the inverse of each other.

If you look at the originals, at 4000RPM and 15% throttle in the alpha N map, you show a value of 90kg/hr.
In the throttle angle vs. Airflow map, at 4000RPM and 90 kg/hr airflow, you have 15% throttle. So you can see the relationship between them, the values should match in this way.


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## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

I've got a 80mm and running the 1200s with a ported AEB and 5" intake mani. I was sent the 70mm/1000 tune and its pig rich all over. sp_golf was over and played with the tune a little bit, as of now it idles pretty good, and when in boost its pretty rich, but better than before. When im driving in vaccuum it is extremely lean until i go into boost. What should i try adjusting next?


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

porkchop_man said:


> I've got a 80mm and running the 1200s with a ported AEB and 5" intake mani. I was sent the 70mm/1000 tune and its pig rich all over. sp_golf was over and played with the tune a little bit, as of now it idles pretty good, and when in boost its pretty rich, but better than before. When im driving in vaccuum it is extremely lean until i go into boost. What should i try adjusting next?


Come by the shop this weekend and you can try my injectors.. That is, if you have the 1000cc stock tb file. The 70mm files do not go well with the 80mm files period, proven. Let me know


----------



## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

I tried my buddies 1000s and it made no difference, If you were closer i would definatly come by but its just over an hour away  I don't want to drive it that far yet lol


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## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

I should probably try playing with the alpha N i guess.. if it's a TB issue?


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

I seriously think you should try the stock tb file. It's what I'm running with the 70mm tb and it's mint. I haven't had a chance to run the 70mm file yet.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

When playing around with the Alpha N/ Throttle body vs Airflow maps, something interesting happens. Cars with a MAF use the Throttle body map and MAFless use alpha N. I, and several others, are mafless and adjustment the throttle body map actually helps for some reason. I did a trace histogram and all values were being read as 0 on the throttle body map, yet it still affects the car. 

Right now i put my maps back to default until i get the new turbo/intercooler/tb/intake manifold setup.


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## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

Would you mind posting a pic of the stock tb values so I can change them? I hate bugging chris unless I really have to


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

porkchop_man said:


> Would you mind posting a pic of the stock tb values so I can change them? I hate bugging chris unless I really have to


Im at work until 6pm central, if it hasnt been posted by then i will. Im sure someone will though.


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## [email protected] (Jun 16, 2008)

i have a 2001 225 tt. the first forcefed gt30 tial v band.
awp ecu swap
buillt top & bottom
and 870cc inj.

im getting a lot of bouncing on idle..... any suggestions?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> i have a 2001 225 tt. the first forcefed gt30 tial v band.
> awp ecu swap
> buillt top & bottom
> and 870cc inj.
> ...


Mafless?

Pre-o2 sensor leak


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## [email protected] (Jun 16, 2008)

yes its mafless no leaks


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> yes its mafless no leaks


Had the same issue with idle bounce. I put in two v-band gaskets from Arnold and its almost gone, except when clutch is in. The leak doesnt have to be big. Do a boost leak test also.


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## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

It's nice that the vortex actually has very useful threads, feels good to finally be helped by others and not bashed like the mk3 forums :laugh:

If someone could send me the values for the stock tb file it would make me very happy 

ps. lower it (sorry i had to)


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Hey guys new versions of the log view and flash were made available on the 27th. Downloading now, hopefully these will fix the current issues.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

630 base tb map


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> i have a 2001 225 tt. the first forcefed gt30 tial v band.
> awp ecu swap
> buillt top & bottom
> and 870cc inj.
> ...


Thats why I went back to a MAF...It made all my idle issue go away and really smoothed things out at part throttle. I noticed no performance loss when going back to a MAF.


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## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

Thanks Dub-Nub , i'll try this out later today


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## [email protected] (Jun 16, 2008)

weird when i try to start the car it shoots too 1200 rpm then dies:what:


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> weird when i try to start the car it shoots too 1200 rpm then dies:what:


What changes did you make?


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

new flash dl fellas


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

weenerdog3443 said:


> new flash dl fellas


:thumbup:


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

weenerdog3443 said:


> new flash dl fellas


Thanks for the heads up.

Just an update the new files fixed all my logging and flashing issues & I no longer need the cable attached to view logs again. Glad to see they keep working & updating this product. :thumbup:


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

new version of flash sux.... went out to go check it out so i clicked flash ecu then selected the file and then it asked for my name(new feture) to check security and it said that only the cable would work with only the vehicle and then click accept... it then said that it couldnt register my vehicle and I couldnt do anything else


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

weenerdog3443 said:


> new version of flash sux.... went out to go check it out so i clicked flash ecu then selected the file and then it asked for my name(new feture) to check security and it said that only the cable would work with only the vehicle and then click accept... it then said that it couldnt register my vehicle and I couldnt do anything else


I didn't get any error message. I got the pop up, put in my first and last name and reflashed my car. may want to email supp[email protected]


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> I didn't get any error message. I got the pop up, put in my first and last name and reflashed my car. may want to email [email protected]


yea i unno what was up with mine... i sent chris a email... Were you connected to the internet when you did it .. maybe that be it cuz i wasnt


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

weenerdog3443 said:


> yea i unno what was up with mine... i sent chris a email... Were you connected to the internet when you did it .. maybe that be it cuz i wasnt


No i was not.


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> No i was not.


mine just hates me


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

^^^^^ With all DUE respect.. Either you have the worst luck EVER, or no patience.. Im betting on bad luck Sorry dude.. couldnt help myself


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> ^^^^^ With all DUE respect.. Either you have the worst luck EVER, or no patience.. Im betting on bad luck Sorry dude.. couldnt help myself


I know man...


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## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

i am so damn frusterated with maestro.. i can't seem to get my car running right. I am so tempted to just sell it and go to megasquirt. I hate how you can't burn to ecu on the fly... it takes 4 minutes to write everytime you change something.. which makes it very difficult if you're troubleshooting.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Is anyone else having issues w/ the logging? I keep message "to many errors to continue". Not sure if its the logger or if I need the firmware cable update that Chris posted about today on Eurodyne forum. I've not gotten any errors flashing or reading the ecm.


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

porkchop_man said:


> i am so damn frusterated with maestro.. i can't seem to get my car running right. I am so tempted to just sell it and go to megasquirt. I hate how you can't burn to ecu on the fly... it takes 4 minutes to write everytime you change something.. which makes it very difficult if you're troubleshooting.


I am having trouble thinking that you issue is software related. If you knew the way my car runs with the off shelf 1000cc file with no tweaks you may agree with me also. Did you ever end up getting the stock TB file from Chris ?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

He's not the only one. I'm having issue working out this throttle oscillation I've got w/ a 70mm TB. I've gone over my car all day and I can't find any leaks in the exhaust or the charge piping that may physically be causing this. 

There's really not a lot of support on how to tune w/ this thing. N4N, it's got the tools to get the job done, but if no one but T knows how to make the right changes it's a moot point.


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## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

Dub-Nub was able to send me the stock tb values.. i tried it and it didnt like it. I've gone over everything and all is good. I really can't figure it out. I asked chris if he could tune my car, I am even willing to tow the car all the way to Ottawa for a good tune! but he's too busy working on his maestro files. This sucks balls  I haven't driven my car all year.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Any word on tweaking Alpha N and it's inverse table for larger throttle bodies?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Bump


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

I'm not sure if i am thinking correctly but i will give it a shot.

With the upgraded intake manifold and throttle body, you need to determine how much air is being thrown into the engine. The only real way to do that would be to put the MAF back in and calibrate it. You would be guessing at numbers and figures without knowing how much extra air is being pushed in.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I just want my car to run better, that's my only motive here, but ideally someone from Eurodyne w/ clear knowledge of what needs to be done should be providing some input. I have an email in to them and some posts on their forum too.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

screwball said:


> I just want my car to run better, that's my only motive here, but ideally someone from Eurodyne w/ clear knowledge of what needs to be done should be providing some input. I have an email in to them and some posts on their forum too.


no doubt about it, i would also want my car running properly.


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

I really think we need to determine that the hardware is all good here. You have to stop and think of the ratio between these tunes out there that are running 100% vs not so much. 

I can fathom that my tune which runs mint as can be, that is a "base" 1000cc file from Chris ( the same one he sends everyone else ) can run poorly in the next guys car ?!? These tunes have been near perfected. 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I bet the tunes are not the initial issue. Big ass tb's are going to require some alphaN finess. But these cars running butt rich etc .. It's gotta be something else.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Big ass thottle bodies AND bigger intake manifolds too. 

I don't know what it's like on the files larger than 630cc specifically, but the alpha N mapping and it's inverse in the base 630cc map is set for a stock intake manifold/tb. I ran a noobly modified 630cc map when I had 870s in here and I thought it ran better, but I have no logs to prove one way or the other - I'm sure it was just the butt dyno/placebo going on.

The good news is Support's being as helpful as they can through email to me. They've filled in some of the blanks already, but i'm about as green as it gets in managing 'tuning' this thing so there's only so much they can do.

I'd like to have someone more knowledgeable do this for me, but I'm having a hard time getting a single word back from them. I'm perfectly happy having someone capable manning the controls to get what I need out of the car. This is my daily driver and I don't have a hooptie to jump if this thing isn't running.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Question (doubt anyone as tried tho)....

Can you log your stock ECU with Maestro before you get the base file flash onto it?

Thanks,
Rey


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

i would say no.... because as soon as you open euroflash and attempt to log data is scans the cable to get its firmware info and ecu information.... 

hey rey since your good with wiring you have any ideas on how to my car could be starting once and then when i try and start the car again it wont but if i unplug and plug the battery it will start again?

Ive cleaned the grounds and the battery have any ideas?

I cant even get access the ECU about all i can do it throw the code reader on the car and read once (no errors) then after that no comms.... the eurodyne flash cable doesnt even work from the start


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

So, does the ECU have your Eurodyne file on it yet? (Have you flashed it yet?)


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

its been flashed a number of times actually.. everything was going good the all of a sudden this crap


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## Marcio (Sep 4, 2009)

hey guys, ive bought mastro 7, it arrived 3 days ago (powertap) 
ive already contact them via website as instruction, but i havent got an answer. 
is this kind of delay normal?? 
thanks.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

did you email [email protected]


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

chris is usually pretty good i get a response in about 1 day usually not more then 2 

you must have pissed him off


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## Marcio (Sep 4, 2009)

done! 
chris asnwered on my email. 
thank you guys.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

What's the difference between the stage 1, stage 2 or base 630 files?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I fixed my licence issue


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## TTime (Jun 20, 2003)

My issues fixed. 

I have been having some of the same issues you guys are talking about here. I am just starting up my car for the first time with the new build. I am running the 1000cc file and I am using a 70mm TB. The base map I had at first did not have the 70mil tuned into the file. My car was of course idle hunting like mad. I also had "error codes" preventing me from communicating with the ECU and even the powertap after I just recently updated the firmware etc... As I am local to Chris, I stopped buy to see him this week and he updated my file for the 70mm TB that I had but could not Flash because the resent updates I did have had an error somewhere causing the flash client not to communicate properly. He did tell me that if I tried to keep updating a couple more times it would have prob been ok and the cause of this is due to the last version for some reason would not always send the complete update if done only once. Chris is very helpful and I know he was going to address this and have this glitch resolved. I now have no problems at all with the powertap and any communications, plus my car now idles perfect with no hunting. I am running rich but found a broken wire for the air intake temp sensor, most likely causing my rich condition as the ECU is seeing -45c intake temp :screwy: 
Hope to have the car out for test runs this weekend and do some logging


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

thanks for the thread and all the info man, this is going to come in handy :beer:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Quick question. 

I am debating buying a used eurodyne file for 650 or just spending the extra and buying the maestro. 

How much is it to upgrade to maestro if you already have eurodyne; do you have to be the original owner? 

I have a k04 ecu in the car now so I would like to sell that and get a used stock ecu for maestro. 

Can I use the software to defeat the immobilizer or do I need to send it away for that?


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## Marcio (Sep 4, 2009)

hey guys, ive flashed my ecu today. 
everything went great, but my car started to thrown a code P2240, leak detection pump(???) 
and after a few minutes, the injection light on the dash comes on. 
does anyone have an idea?? 

it is a 05 gti AUQ 

thanks very much.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

hootyburra said:


> Quick question.
> 
> I am debating buying a used eurodyne file for 650 or just spending the extra and buying the maestro.
> 
> ...


 Just get the base 630cc file. It runs perfect out of the box for your needs. Later on if you upgrade other components (turbo, manifold, wmi, throttle body) fork out the extra $250 for maestro. I've done a ton of logging on my setup and it runs flawless. Granted there is a little extra cusion w/ fueling & timing since its a base file for everyone but out of the box its a great tune.


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## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

I've been ripping my hair out for the past 4 weeks trying to get my car running right, Here's the problem. It idles extremely rich..when driving the afr is all over the map; extremely lean to extremely rich and when boosting it just dumps insane amounts of fuel. My AEM gauge reads 10.5-11.7 at idle but the reading on the eurodyne flash reads my actual afr to be 14.6-14.7. I've tried to make numerous changes with the tune and nothing really seems to help, I've replaced both o2s with brand new ones and have checked over my wiring. What can be causing this? :evil: Honestly.. i will do anything right now to get this going. 

Here are my specs: 
Awp block with Wiseco pistons and IE rods, all ARP studs 
AEB ported and polished head with Full Ferrea valvetrain 
Bob Q "purple" cams 
Bullseye AX368 turbo from the autoxtrem car 
Weirtec custom race manifold 
3" AWIC 
44mm tial 
4" homemade intake 
80mm hemi tb 
Aeromotive A1000 with -8 fuel lines 
1200cc with driverbox 
ECU is HR code if it helps.. 

Oh and the file i got from Chris is the 1000cc/70mm tune. I used the wizard to scale my 1200s.


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

my a/f at idle is the same thing, runs pig rich and a/f is all over the place in boost as well.

im using 1200cc injectors and 80mm TB as well. wont lean out no matter what, though it drives fairly decent even though it runs rich. i dont have any driveablity issues


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## TTime (Jun 20, 2003)

Hey Guys, I'm NOT all sorted out yet as my car is still running super rich as well still. I am running the 1000cc file but using the SEM low impedance driver box, which Chris says is causing the problem with the injector pulse causing a rich condition and that is should be the DSM resister box used. 

I am just wondering if this is what everyone else is using? I purchased the SEM box with the understanding it would do the same thing and the bonus of plug and play not having to splice and solder my harness. I believe there is also a Volvo (bosch) box that will do the same? 

Anybody using the 1kcc file.....what are you guys using?? :banghead: 

Think I now want high impedance....


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

yup im using the SEM driver box as well


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

i sold my ecu from my stage3+ kit, got a new ecu but need immo defeat. do i need to send it out or can i was my maestro to do that? i searched for the answer, ive seen the question asked a bunch of times but i havent seen a definitive answer. any help would be appreciated.


----------



## dantheman18t (Oct 24, 2008)

Dose anyone know what sensor the 2step works on on the clutch I'm in the uk and we only have one clutch switch:banghead:


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

dantheman18t said:


> Dose anyone know what sensor the 2step works on on the clutch I'm in the uk and we only have one clutch switch:banghead:


 IIRC it runs off the clutch switch


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

SGTphatboy said:


> i sold my ecu from my stage3+ kit, got a new ecu but need immo defeat. do i need to send it out or can i was my maestro to do that? i searched for the answer, ive seen the question asked a bunch of times but i havent seen a definitive answer. any help would be appreciated.


 Jut tell Chris you need immo defeat. He will be more than happy to walk you through it over the phone. He did that with me when we defeated mine. It took all of 10 seconds. If I remember correctly we actually flashed the car twice..once for the immo defeat and a second time for the base file.


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

dantheman18t said:


> Dose anyone know what sensor the 2step works on on the clutch I'm in the uk and we only have one clutch switch:banghead:


 
It uses the clutch switch for the cruise. If you don't have cruise control which I am assuming you don't, then you may wanna give Tapp a call and see if he can rewrite the software to use the other one...no sure though.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

iTech said:


> Jut tell Chris you need immo defeat. He will be more than happy to walk you through it over the phone. He did that with me when we defeated mine. It took all of 10 seconds. If I remember correctly we actually flashed the car twice..once for the immo defeat and a second time for the base file.


 thanks for info man, i will give him a shout :beer:


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

TTime said:


> Hey Guys, I'm NOT all sorted out yet as my car is still running super rich as well still. I am running the 1000cc file but using the SEM low impedance driver box, which Chris says is causing the problem with the injector pulse causing a rich condition and that is should be the DSM resister box used.
> 
> I am just wondering if this is what everyone else is using? I purchased the SEM box with the understanding it would do the same thing and the bonus of plug and play not having to splice and solder my harness. I believe there is also a Volvo (bosch) box that will do the same?
> 
> ...


 
i wonder if we run straight E85, that will help with this super rich situation with the SEM driver box.


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## TTime (Jun 20, 2003)

halchka99 said:


> i wonder if we run straight E85, that will help with this super lean situation with the SEM driver box.


 you mean rich? 

I called SEM and they confirmed that their "driver" box will not emulate the the same as the honda resistor box. Chris has tuned our files using a resistor box not the driver box, so this seems to cause our issue with the injector M/S fuel rate pulse. I still would rather not splice my harness to use the honda box but unfortunately its looking like the only way. I am looking into possibly using the 910cc "EV14" high impedance if the base does not need to be re-tuned drastically. Have to wait and see what they say.


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

yeah rich, well damn this totally sucks.... are there any 1000cc high impedance injectors we can use with no resistor/driver box?


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

when you guys say you are running rich, what is your a/f at idle? under boost etc?


----------



## TTime (Jun 20, 2003)

I have only idled the car and I'm at about -11:1 A/F


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## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

I'm betting our issues with the whole running pig rich thing is because of the driver box.. I'm going to throw in some 830cc tonight and see what happens! I've been pulling my hair out for 6 weeks now


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

with 1000cc+ injectors its pretty tough to get a 14.x idle. I can get my idle to be around mid to high 11's with 1200cc's which isnt all that bad.


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

when u use an p&h injector driver, the injectors are driven so much more effciently that the duty cycle goes down vs when using a saturated driver + resistors


----------



## TTime (Jun 20, 2003)

halchka99 said:


> with 1000cc+ injectors its pretty tough to get a 14.x idle. I can get my idle to be around mid to high 11's with 1200cc's which isnt all that bad.


 I would never leave or except my car to idle at 11, I did and and its already cost me plugs and an O2. On a fresh motor I am not about to break it in with terrible fueling.


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## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

so.. anyone here using a injector driver? throw it out! I used to idle at 11.1 and my AFR was all over the map when driving.. I installed a honda resistor box with my 1200s and it's perfect. 14.7 idle and AFRs are spot on!


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

good to know. I'm still just going to adjust my inj. constant map to change my ms on my injectors


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## TTime (Jun 20, 2003)

porkchop_man said:


> so.. anyone here using a injector driver? throw it out! I used to idle at 11.1 and my AFR was all over the map when driving.. I installed a honda resistor box with my 1200s and it's perfect. 14.7 idle and AFRs are spot on!


 nice to hear that you have confirmed this issue....I don't really wanna use the honda box but looks like I'm going to install one so I can finally get my car running the way it should.


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

i just swapped out my SEM for a honda and i can confirm that it also now idles much much better. 14s


----------



## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

you can always make your own resistor box for about $4


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

I have a couple of these honda resistor boxes laying around if anyone needs one. I run it on my car with 1000cc file.


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

porkchop_man said:


> so.. anyone here using a injector driver? throw it out! I used to idle at 11.1 and my AFR was all over the map when driving.. I installed a honda resistor box with my 1200s and it's perfect. 14.7 idle and AFRs are spot on!


That a boy. Knew you'd get it all sorted out.


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## [email protected] (Jun 16, 2008)

i have a 870 file maestro. mafless
im getting a p0030 code and p0135 code i logged block 30 and 33 and voltage is at not changing , primary o2 is brand new:what:


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## [email protected] (Jun 16, 2008)

what should i log i have no clue about block numbers:thumbdown:


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## stick076 (Feb 8, 2007)

Did you clear the code?


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

Log block 001 *you should log it live and you will see it fluctuate because it should constantly be reading from that sensor* and see if your oxygen sensor is above 1.0 if so, it's toast!



A code P0135 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:

* O2 Heater element resistance is high
* Internal short or open in the heater element
* O2 heater circuit wiring high resistance
* open or short to ground in the wiring harness

Possible Solutions

* Repair short or open or high resistance in wiring harness or harness connectors
* Replace oxygen sensor (cannot repair open or short that occurs internally to sensor)


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

got my maestro working... all it needed was for me to clean the grounds and do a reflash....


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

halchka99 said:


> i just swapped out my SEM for a honda and i can confirm that it also now idles much much better. 14s


Good call, i was going to recommend that.

Curiously are you using the (Injector Constant) that Chris supplied? or have you attempted to use his "Fueling Wizard". I was speaking to 18T_BT about this, and i would assume nothing but trial and error would get you the proper value. It is a very precise calculation, but very simple on the other hand, just makes me think  

If you dont mind maybe posting your Value used for the Injector Constant?


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

i did it thru the fueling wizard, chris also recommended this


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## [email protected] (Jun 16, 2008)

Will check o2 tommorrow! Thanks 1.8Bt


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## veedubin69 (May 14, 2008)

halchka99 said:


> yeah rich, well damn this totally sucks.... are there any 1000cc high impedance injectors we can use with no resistor/driver box?


Spend the money and get good high-z injectors, you'll never have a problem.
I run the 910cc file on my 1000cc with NO problems, it got to below freezing last night, so far its the best tune I've ever had or felt.

I bought Injector Dynamics 1000cc cause they're the best and have totally linear fuel curve, excellent idle and good power, I got 13.4 @102mph last weekend and it was my first time ever draggin'! BTW i have a 1998 A4 AEB so ME3.8 but make power

If you have a VAG car, you'd be stupid not to buy this product, its a one time ticket between you and your open ecu, finally freedom! BTW Chris now has 2.0T files and cables too!


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

veedubin69 said:


> Spend the money and get good high-z injectors, you'll never have a problem.
> I run the 910cc file on my 1000cc with NO problems, it got to below freezing last night, so far its the best tune I've ever had or felt.
> 
> I bought Injector Dynamics 1000cc cause they're the best and have totally linear fuel curve, excellent idle and good power, I got 13.4 @102mph last weekend and it was my first time ever draggin'! BTW i have a 1998 A4 AEB so ME3.8 but make power
> ...


I agree, only if you are capable of tuning it, otherwise buy a unitronic "chip" and be happy with it.

I can see people really screwing stuff up, ME7/9 is no fun to learn on for sure. Im glad theres plenty of help for the newcomers though!


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

halchka99 said:


> i did it thru the fueling wizard, chris also recommended this


Interesting, And your fueling is pretty close at this point? I saw you were running pig rich until you swapped over to the regular style resistor box.


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

RaraK69 said:


> I agree, only if you are capable of tuning it, otherwise buy a unitronic "chip" and be happy with it.
> 
> I can see people really screwing stuff up, ME7/9 is no fun to learn on for sure. Im glad theres plenty of help for the newcomers though!


I disagree. I would still buy a Eurodyne chip. The upgrade to Meastro is then cut in half if you decied that you want to go that route in the future


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

VRT said:


> I disagree. I would still buy a Eurodyne chip. The upgrade to Meastro is then cut in half if you decied that you want to go that route in the future


Its my understanding that Chris doesnt really sell BT chips anymore, pushing Maestro? I dont see why he would sell off the shelf tunes when the pricing is basically what the competions charges for their BT tunes. That may be hearsay. 

I really dont have a chip preference like some do, I dont keep up with who does what. I just stumbled into this thread and reading about Maestro, really user friendly compared to WinOLS and KWP/Galleto!

Good business for Chris to offer the upgrade discount too, hopefully my buddy gets into Maestro next year and upgrades his "oldschool" socketed setup(tapp) to flash capability.


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

Yea dude thats complete hearsay. If you want software, it is 100% available separately from maestro. 

I hope there will be some 1k + highZ inj files for next year. But I have absolutely no issues or complaints wiht my current 1k file. In fact it runs better than my mothers stock B5!


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

16plus4v said:


> Yea dude thats complete hearsay. If you want software, it is 100% available separately from maestro.
> 
> I hope there will be some 1k + highZ inj files for next year. But I have absolutely no issues or complaints wiht my current 1k file. In fact it runs better than my mothers stock B5!



Ive seen running proof of the low impedance injectors working very well on a friends car, idles as well as my s4 with 630's, and the s4 motor is butter smooth compared to a 4cyl. Like i said just interested in how they tune it thats all. Always trying to learn more and more about ME7 ya know?


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## porkchop_man (Apr 20, 2007)

- i always get "Too many errors.. exiting" when using the flash, Whether i am watching the measuring blocks or if i am just recording a log. I can be in the middle of a pull,recording a log and it will pop up on me 

-another error message i get all the time is "Task Failed! Error result code = Timeout" every time i am using the "READ SETTINGS", I will make a change and press WRITE, it'll do it usual warming up controller thing.. then it will give me this message.

I have diconnected my battery, reflashed the ecu and still nothing.

is anyone else getting errors when using the flash?


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## stone (Mar 23, 1999)

Chris still sell the BT programs. that what we use as a base tune in maestro!!


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## volksspoolen (Feb 13, 2005)

"Too many errors.. exiting"
I only get that if I attempt really long logs


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

New version of maestro is out. Downloading now. :beer:


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> New version of maestro is out. Downloading now. :beer:


Another version out already as well as an update for the flash client.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

with ME7 would I be able to limit boost in say the first 2 gears? 10psi in 1st, 15psi in 2nd and full tit in 3rd and up ?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Gulfstream said:


> with ME7 would I be able to limit boost in say the first 2 gears? 10psi in 1st, 15psi in 2nd and full tit in 3rd and up ?


 No. You would need a different type of boost controller setup.


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## TTime (Jun 20, 2003)

I'm having problems with part throttle running very rich and throttle holding even when off the throttle and then it will slowly come down. 

I have the idle near perfect @ 14.5 A/F but for some reason the second I touch the throttle and try to hold higher RPM I loose O2 correction factor and will instantly run rich (11) with no correction until I let off the throttle, then it will run perfect again at idle and o2 begins to show correction values again. 

Any suggestions? 

I'm 1000cc maf-less file with honda resistor box, car did its first heat cycle with no issues at idle, no vacuum leaks, all readiness check and did throttle body adaptation as well.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

do you have a larger throttle body and intake? is your file calibrated for that?


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## thom337 (Oct 13, 2007)

Gulfstream said:


> with ME7 would I be able to limit boost in say the first 2 gears? 10psi in 1st, 15psi in 2nd and full tit in 3rd and up ?


 
This is possible...I don't think its built in Maestro yet though.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

thom337 said:


> This is possible...I don't think its built in Maestro yet though.


 Who would know for sure?


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## thom337 (Oct 13, 2007)

I know for sure that its possible on the ME 7.5, I don't have Maestro though so I don't know if it has the capability to do it...I'm guessing if it did it would be pretty easy to find though.


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## TTime (Jun 20, 2003)

18T_BT said:


> do you have a larger throttle body and intake? is your file calibrated for that?


 yeah I have 70mm TB and RMR mani....chris gave me the 70mm file.......just seems weird that as soon as I touch the throttle the A/F goes all wacky and o2 stops correcting for some reason.


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

thom337 said:


> This is possible...I don't think its built in Maestro yet though.


 yes it has been done....i believe there is a write up on it in the eurodyne forums.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

TTime said:


> yeah I have 70mm TB and RMR mani....chris gave me the 70mm file.......just seems weird that as soon as I touch the throttle the A/F goes all wacky and o2 stops correcting for some reason.


 it's not weird because it sounds like if the RPM's hang then of course the 02 is going to not correct well, because something is hanging it up there...did this just start happening or was it always like this? i talked to nate audittnator after he got his car running, he says he has the same problem...


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## TTime (Jun 20, 2003)

Yeah I just did it's first full heat cycle last night now that I have the SEM harness out and the honda box in, it will idle proper now. I have no idea why it would hang RPM like this...sometimes hangs longer than other times....its not likeing something...I just gotta find it:banghead:


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

alrght im having issues with the fueling on my car.... my tuner suggested that i change my injector constant to get the AFR to sit in a reasonable area 

right now my car says its 40... which it not right..... i start the car and it revs up then dies.... if i touch the gas i can usually give it enough to get it to go into an idle.... 

question i have it what number here do i need to slowly increase to get changes that will be noticable to try and get this working?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

just remember for this value: (with same injectors) 

increase in value richens 
decrease in value leans out. 

small changes.... 


What size injectors do you have? And why not use the injector wizard? 
Also, what's your TEMIN value?


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

i got that.... but im assuming that if i just change the last number im not going to notice any difference.... which one of those numbers should i start with then after fine tune the rest


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

.0xx 

play with the third in .005 increments


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

so... 47,48,49,50 ...


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

elRey said:


> What size injectors do you have? And why not use the injector wizard?
> Also, what's your TEMIN value?


 630cc 

but its not right..... not sure what a TEMIN value is? 

from what my tuner says right now with the file i have we can play around with fueling but when we hit the top end we dont have any fuel left to play with


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

.047, .052, .057, .062 

as very rough adjustments. 

Are you saying your running out of fuel on the top end with 630s?


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

im low on fuel everywhere actually 

but if we alter the maps in the low end to get the right amount of fuel we run out of available fuel before we get to the top end


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

wait. what maps are you altering low-end vs high-end fueling?


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

main fuel correction


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

My instincts are telling me it has something to do with your returnless fuel system. What did you do with that? And is your base tune for a returnless system or a return one?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

For the guys running the base Eurodyne 630CC file.. 


During your logging at what boost level have you seen knock starting to show up? Through my logs running 14-17ish psi I have no knock. I have the boost set @ 19psi-20psi now (T3/T4 50 trim) and I started getting 2.25 degrees on cyl #2. I assume this is still within acceptable parameters but should I physically be able to feel the engine getting this knock because I can feel a very slight letup in power during this point. I'm still combing over the logs but I believe actual A/F is still matching requested. 

**And do I have a correct understanding of this? It is indeed knock or is it timing pull? Is the computer actually backing off timing at this point? Could I be feeling something more than just knock like my fuel pump is hiccuping?** 

:beer:


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

The value you see is timing pull, not knocking itself. And yes, you can feel it when ECU pulls even a small amount of timing under heavy load. The very, VERY cool thing about this software is that you don't have to compromise. I.e. either live with the slight drop in power when it pulls timing, or lower timing globally (unisetting) and thus lower power globally. 

Now you can examine your logs. Identify at what load/rpm you are seeing that timing pull and just lower timing in that small area on your timing map. 

So great!


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

how do you swap between maf and mafless? 

im thinking im going to go to a DV and maf instead of the mafless BOV i have now


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## volksspoolen (Feb 13, 2005)

> how do you swap between maf and mafless?


 On my '03 AWP you just unplug the MAF. If it's plugged in it will use the sensor, if it's unplugged it will rely on alpha-n. per Mr. Tapp


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

U guys think 100 octane is enough fuel to switch to the " high octane timing"


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

switch. do a log and see how much, if any timing is pulled. thats basically all that is different between the two from what i could tell. chime in, im sure there is something different, haha

i switched on 108. same amount of timing pull. but timing was increased across the board.
i wish i would have ran on the pump file and logged. there might not of been any timing pull...?


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

duke_seb said:


> how do you swap between maf and mafless?
> 
> im thinking im going to go to a DV and maf instead of the mafless BOV i have now



Use the best of both worlds...MAFless with a diverter valve. It is honestly the best way to go. Since I ditched the MAF I will never go back. I attempted to run with a BOV for a while but it really just was not that tuneable on my setup.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

iTech said:


> Use the best of both worlds...MAFless with a diverter valve. It is honestly the best way to go. Since I ditched the MAF I will never go back. I attempted to run with a BOV for a while but it really just was not that tuneable on my setup.


Ive decided to go with Forge Supersize valve in this setup. Have you got any experience with this? 


http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0006&product=FMDVSUPR


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## RoloGTI (Sep 7, 2008)

Hi guys....would like to ask you a few questions...if this is off topic please erase it

I really don't know nothing about engine tune (just play sometimes with the timming), I can do 2 things...one go for the BT 630cc Uni file or go to Maestro 7..I really like the idea of the Maestro 7 but I'm a bit worried on blowing up the engine...or never reach a decent behavior of the engine...I know they give you a generic file to start, but...how hard is to learn this thing and to understand...I'm an average guy with average IQ, with average everything..hahaha...

*The question is...."Is this going to be a pain in the ass for me???" (this is the most important question)*

Hope you could help me...

I'm building up my car with this stuff:

SETUP
VW GOLF GTI 1.8T AUQ ENGINE 2003

Kinetic T3 manifold
GT 3071R 63ar
Precision WG
Siemens 630cc
Walbro 255 LPH Fuel Pump
CTS 3" DP
Titanum Vale Springs
Iconnel Exhaust Valves
JE Forged Pistons 20mm
IE Rods 20mm ARP bolts
FMIC
AEM meth Inyection
FX 400 6 pads Clutch
42DD 3 "Catback
CTS 3" Downpipe
Metalic Impeller Water Pump
Beru Coils
BKR 7E IX
AVC-R 

Thank's for anyone that could help me on my choice :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

if you feel that a full adjustable unit is over your head. Well then get the Eurodyne tune and if down the road you fell you want to try it out. It's only a few more coins to add it to your system


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

VRT said:


> if you feel that a full adjustable unit is over your head. Well then get the Eurodyne tune and if down the road you fell you want to try it out. It's only a few more coins to add it to your system


 Yeah in my experience and what I have seen as long as your running stock throttle body, intake mani & displacement the stock 630CC file is pretty spot on.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

hey guys just wanted to post Maestro has another update:thumbup:


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

One-Eight GTI said:


> hey guys just wanted to post Maestro has another update:thumbup:


 HURRAY:vampire:


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

One-Eight GTI said:


> hey guys just wanted to post Maestro has another update:thumbup:


 did they revert the update? i see last one being 10-8


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

Dub-Nub said:


> did they revert the update? i see last one being 10-8


 ^Same???


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Dub-Nub said:


> did they revert the update? i see last one being 10-8


 If you go to the Eurodyne Forum Chris posted a new update from 1.8.1 to 1.8.4, due to the fact 1.8.1 doesn't automatically update??? I haven't tried to download it yet


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

2literA2 said:


> ^Same???


 come on fellas.... you update it through flash and maestro now remember


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

weenerdog3443 said:


> come on fellas.... you update it through flash and maestro now remember


 dam forgot lol, whats the update on this?


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Here you have it Dub...http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=770


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## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

weenerdog3443 said:


> come on fellas.... you update it through flash and maestro now remember


 Wouldn't update automatically... must do a manual update to push this one thru.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

I NEED 2 STEP ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

More then a couple people have requested this, i cant believe we still dont have it =/


----------



## RoloGTI (Sep 7, 2008)

A new Eurodyne owner here, hope everything goes smoth   

Were I can find the SW to start learning it (Maestro 7 and the rest of the SW)? 

Thank's


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> I NEED 2 STEP ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> More then a couple people have requested this, i cant believe we still dont have it =/


 Yea i know


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

Dub-Nub said:


> I NEED 2 STEP ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> More then a couple people have requested this, i cant believe we still dont have it =/


 yea if the speed feature worked on it we we be set


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

anyone know if its okay to unclip rear o2 sensor on a mafless file? dont want to leave it dangling when installing wideband.


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Hey Dub-Nub you will be ok, Mine had been disconnected for awhile now, Put my wide band sensor there for my air fuel gauge


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

One-Eight GTI said:


> Hey Dub-Nub you will be ok, Mine had been disconnected for awhile now, Put my wide band sensor there for my air fuel gauge


 I was thinking of doing the same, but Autometer instructions is 5-6" downstream from turbine. Do you get reliable readings that far back ?


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Yeah I actually do, My downpipe was made by Al, so the second sensor spacing isn't that far behind the main O2 sensor... Works great, just disconnected the 2nd O2 sensor and tucked the wires away... 

Edit I don't have a cat either, But I'm sure you figured that:thumbup:


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Just finished my wideband install. I disconnected the back o2 sensor and left the second half of connector in that black box under, same place where i hid the aem wideband connector. Had a tough time figuring out why my gauge was going ALL over the place, it could make it dance by wiggeling wires. turns out one wasnt set correctly, so i got that fixed. now it should be fine.


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

One-Eight GTI said:


> Yeah I actually do, My downpipe was made by Al, so the second sensor spacing isn't that far behind the main O2 sensor... Works great, just disconnected the 2nd O2 sensor and tucked the wires away...
> 
> Edit I don't have a cat either, But I'm sure you figured that:thumbup:


 Im getting the kit from Al as well so Ill prolly do the same. Did you cut the wire to the 2nd O2 or just leave it under the car?


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

I did the exact same thing as Dub-Nubs post directly above yours... Hid everything in that little black box where the connectors are for both O2 sensors


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I've been trying to control boost with the n75 and have been failing to do so. Using the quick settings in the flasher I reduced boost to 20%, according to the boost desired its supposed to be held at 17psi but I keep hitting 22-25psi. When I hooked up line pressure to wastegate again its limited to wastegate pressure which tells me that the line doesn't have a rip in it. I thought maybe there was something that I would have to do to switch the n75 on but there isn't. I've tryed swapping n75 valves with a friends and it still is the same. Do the quicksettings not work for boost? Do I actually have to fix the duty cycle mapping?










I'm still having issues with idle. After a while of sitting the car will almost fall on itself for a split second. This happens when the 02 correction starts to happen after sitting. Idle will bounce and so will vaccum while it will correct up 23% and below -16% and it will occur in the same block while viewing the main fuel scale in maestro. As you can see in the graph for some reason the value for actual A/F will stay at 58 for about 15 seconds while cruising. I think I'm gonna try swapping out 02 sensor 1 to see if thats the issue.


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## Chunki84 (Dec 18, 2008)

If I buy new ecu and
buy eurodyn maestro 7.
I can do immo defeat my self?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Yes.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Took some logs today on a WOT to redline. Beautiful intake temperatures. Logs show getting as low as 15c. I am having a tough time figuring out why the water/meth is not dropping the timing advance as much as i would have liked it to. I am still getting 23 timing at redline with no timing adjustments. Intake temps going down but not the timing...any input?


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

anyone have an issue of not being able to adjust rev limit? no matter what i set it to. its around 6500-7k


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

Dub-Nub said:


> Took some logs today on a WOT to redline. Beautiful intake temperatures. Logs show getting as low as 15c. I am having a tough time figuring out why the water/meth is not dropping the timing advance as much as i would have liked it to. I am still getting 23 timing at redline with no timing adjustments. Intake temps going down but not the timing...any input?


Water/Meth injection won't drop your timing... it's a retardant, and helps slow the burn of the fuel allowing you to run more timing (than those without).


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Ah gotcha. So it allows you to run like 40 timing versus 20 (example numbers). Anyone got a good resource to learn about it or how to tune with water/meth? I am unsure what exactly to bump it to. .75 timing gives me -3 knock on two cylinders, that normal or danger zone?


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

It's up to you but most people would say you don't want to pull more than 4-6 degrees from any one cylinder. I find the timing on the 630 tune to be really conservative on my car. I've run upwards of 25psi and I don't see any timing pull during logging. Regarding method of tuning you basically have to add timing slowly and log correction factor to see how much you can add before things get to close to 4-6 degrees.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Nub you could also jump right to the high octane file and tone things down slightly from that as a base file. I'm just guessing here, but w/ the colder weather upon us you would probably be pretty close w/ that straight away.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

You should be on high octane file when on meth. The only thing change between the 2 file is the timing.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

I will give the race gas file a test when i get home tonight and will update.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Dub-Nub said:


> I will give the race gas file a test when i get home tonight and will update.


I wouldn't if your already pulling timing on the pump file. I'm not sure what your setup is but either your running to much boost, your water-meth is not dialed in properly and your bogging it or you have an underlying issue somewhere. Race file is 3-4 degrees of timing added I think, most likely your going to be pulling 6 degrees or greater.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I wouldn't if your already pulling timing on the pump file. I'm not sure what your setup is but either your running to much boost, your water-meth is not dialed in properly and your bogging it or you have an underlying issue somewhere. Race file is 3-4 degrees of timing added I think, most likely your going to be pulling 6 degrees or greater.


Boost: 15-18psi GT3071

2.5" aluminum piping with greddy 500hp core.

Water/meth starts 7psi full blast 15psi. i think size 3

3" DP to 2.5" catback


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Dub-Nub said:


> Boost: 15-18psi GT3071
> 
> 2.5" aluminum piping with greddy 500hp core.
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm no means an expert but when I was running WMI on my nuespeed charger 2.0 if I started the WMI to early or to much it would pull timing because it wasn't atomizing properly. 

Any logs to post up? When is your timing pull starting? If theres no correlation to how you have the WMI set then you can probably throw this out the window but in my experience you shouldn't be seeing any timing pull with the WMI w/ conservative timing settings. ....just putting some ideas out there.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

I will post some logs later tonight when i get home, at work right now . Knock is noticed at around 6500 or 6800 rpms. I may be over-revving it a bit. I dont want to throw the WMI away, i am seeing 9c intake temps :laugh:


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Here is a log with i believe .75 timing add

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...HSVdqVjk3QUZ0a3c&authkey=CKmb5sAO&hl=en#gid=0


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

are you still on a stock TB and Intake manifold?


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

screwball said:


> are you still on a stock TB and Intake manifold?


Yes


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I wonder if that's contributing to the timing pull up high.


----------



## Chunki84 (Dec 18, 2008)

I am little confusing.
I have stock ecu now.
and I am considering to buy used maestro 7 unit.
It will be only included the black colored plastic block.
Do I need tapped ecu or do I need to buy software file?
I wanna go apr gt2871r setup with 550cc
Do I need eurodyn flash(is it software or hardware?) in order to use maestro 7?


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Chunki84 said:


> I am little confusing.
> I have stock ecu now.
> and I am considering to buy used maestro 7 unit.
> It will be only included the black colored plastic block.
> ...


You will get the black plastic box and wire (hardware) and the software will be emailed to you as well as downloaded from their website.

Each file is vehicle and build specific (turbo, injectors, ect)

If you want to purchase contact them and they will explain more


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Anyone heard a anything about 2-step only?

Edit: Emailed eurodyne about it and was informed its coming this week!


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> Anyone heard a anything about 2-step only?
> 
> Edit: Emailed eurodyne about it and was informed its coming this week!


YEY


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

just updated mine again but cars at home and im at work so i cant check if it was the update with the 2 step only.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

weenerdog3443 said:


> just updated mine again but cars at home and im at work so i cant check if it was the update with the 2 step only.


let me know asap!


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> let me know asap!


 did it ealrier and it updated to ver 3.0.9 juct did it again and now its vers 3.1.0 who knows... opcorn:opcorn:


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Chunki84 said:


> I am little confusing.
> I have stock ecu now.
> and I am considering to buy used maestro 7 unit.
> It will be only included the black colored plastic block.
> ...


I would think you need the seller's ECU that they used Maestro with. If Eurodyne has to send another file to you specifically for your ECU, I would think they would charge for it. Maybe discounted a little, but not by a whole lot.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

more updates


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

****HELP****
have a customers car with maestro and cannot connect with the ecu. using his cable matched to his ecu. he has the 870cc file, trying to swap to the 70mm TB file. vag com works, but nothing from flash to logger works. wont talk to the ECU. i am using my work laptop that has the latest downloads on. tries different baud rates, and comes back and says " turn key on or plug cable in" (something to that effect)
-what to do? this worked fine in his car with his laptop 2 months ago. thanks.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

what u guys settin ur 2 step rpms at


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

VW1990CORRADO said:


> ****HELP****
> have a customers car with maestro and cannot connect with the ecu. using his cable matched to his ecu. he has the 870cc file, trying to swap to the 70mm TB file. vag com works, but nothing from flash to logger works. wont talk to the ECU. i am using my work laptop that has the latest downloads on. tries different baud rates, and comes back and says " turn key on or plug cable in" (something to that effect)
> -what to do? this worked fine in his car with his laptop 2 months ago. thanks.


Have latest cable firmware? latest software? tried emailing [email protected]?


----------



## eagc (Feb 24, 2008)

does anybody have done upgrades for AGU engine with k04.2x and genesis 415


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

as far as i know, yes. and i shot them an email monday. they said to try unplugging just the ecu on the car. and send a comm log? i did a battery capsitive discharge, hoping that would work.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

weenerdog3443 said:


> what u guys settin ur 2 step rpms at


I haven't been using it. I would like to but got scared when alot of guys were saying its bad and very very stressful on the valves. With the way I drive sometimes I'm sure I'd be using it everyday. I thought some guy on hear dopped a valve while using the N2MB WOT box. I definetly would like to try it out but I'm in the process of swapping to a high mileage stock AEB head. Thoughts?


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

There's an 870/70mm file built? Any info on that? I'll throw my 870s back in and try that as I've never liked the 630/70mm file.


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

screwball said:


> There's an 870/70mm file built? Any info on that? I'll throw my 870s back in and try that as I've never liked the 630/70mm file.


its a 630cc70mm, and i used the injector wizard. whats wrong with that file.?
ps i got the cable to connect. i updated it 3 times before it worked? ah well. moved on from that lol.


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

what was everyones feeling on the 70mmTB file? i am having poor a/f ratios under increasing load. as in hitting 8:1 when it sees even 2psi. idle and part throttle are 14.7


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Mine runs decent, but I think it needs a bunch of tweaking to really be good. My setup is just a stock AEB head - Big port IM - TB. My fuel trims are -4 and +17.XX w/ O2 correction all over the place to keep up.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

My understanding was even though it's a 70mm file, it's built on the premise of a stock small port head and stock IM.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

weenerdog3443 said:


> what u guys settin ur 2 step rpms at



Went to a local track yesterday for 1/8t mile runs. Set the WOT at 3750 and can build about 5psi of boost. Cant test much as the stock clutch is slipping =/. ran 8.9 @ 81.96 on street tires @ 13 psi.


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

how are people getting the 870cc file to run well with the 70mm throttle body? when i had that file on there, it would misfire like crazy on cold start, and was slightly choppy. with the 70mm file it was perfect, until boost.


----------



## Chunki84 (Dec 18, 2008)

*have a question here.*

I have a used ecu that need immo defeat.
If I have maestro 7, can I take care immo defeat by software?


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

Chunki84 said:


> I have a used ecu that need immo defeat.
> If I have maestro 7, can I take care immo defeat by software?


yup yup


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

can someone tell me how to switch the ECU from MAF to MAFLESS?


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

It should be set to mafless already. If you want to run a maf just plug it in and under (i think it's called) maf scaling just select the maf you're using in the drop down menu.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

maf scaling?... where is that?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

seriously?

no one knows?

i got my file mafless but i want to go with maf I just want to know where to look


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

I believe it's a matter of running a MAF or not. No setting in the software.

MAF = plug in and run a good MAF sensor
MAFless = unplug and remove the MAF sensor.

That simple.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

really.... thats retarted...lol

you ever coming up to canada rey..... help me finish my build would ya


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

duke_seb said:


> seriously?
> 
> no one knows?
> 
> i got my file mafless but i want to go with maf I just want to know where to look


just plug it in.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

I got this right from chris but he didn't reply on how

"You can load the scaling for the maf you want to use, then plug it in."


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

There's a tab w/ available maf's that are loaded in a drop down menu just like I said. You still can't find it?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

Could you post a screenshot?


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

duke_seb said:


> Could you post a screenshot?


Opened every single windowand i found it

Under Flowmeter -> Flowmeter. You will see the dropdown


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

thanks.... I appreciate it... i found it now


----------



## eagc (Feb 24, 2008)

DOES ANYBODY HAS DONE A FILE FOR A The M3.8/5.9 ecu (06a906018cg) with 415 or 440 injectors ?




> Chris:
> 
> The M3.8/5.9 ecu like yours have does not support Maestro logger, or injector wizard.




anybody can help me... I´m lost !


----------



## AudiA4_18T (Mar 15, 2006)

So what exactly is needed for lambda correction? My correction is still 0. The N80 is still giving me a code as well as VVT because I left it unplugged (3652s)


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

AudiA4_18T said:


> So what exactly is needed for lambda correction? My correction is still 0. The N80 is still giving me a code as well as VVT because I left it unplugged (3652s)


Could it be the VVT? I believe I read somewhere that VVT was required in me7 for adaption. Needs to be ressistored out. Your pulling an actual fault code? Did you try and disable the VVT in maestro to see if adaptation works?


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

AudiA4_18T said:


> So what exactly is needed for lambda correction? My correction is still 0. The N80 is still giving me a code as well as VVT because I left it unplugged (3652s)


you need to resister those out. 330 ohm. its needs tose to adapt. (thanks arnold )


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

just built "hurtswhenipee" s 337. runs well. 414whp with pagparts tial gt3076r on pump gas.


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

VW1990CORRADO said:


> just built "hurtswhenipee" s 337. runs well. 414whp with pagparts tial gt3076r on pump gas.


Whats his build, is he still small port and factory intake??


----------



## AudiA4_18T (Mar 15, 2006)

VW1990CORRADO said:


> you need to resister those out. 330 ohm. its needs tose to adapt. (thanks arnold )


Can't turn the CEL off with my Maestro, Tapp hasn't gotten all the maps done for my car. Ive heard 13ohm but I can try the 330ohm. Does it matter what voltage?


----------



## hurtswhenipee (May 13, 2009)

One-Eight GTI said:


> Whats his build, is he still small port and factory intake??


yeah, what does that guy have exactly? 

list is in a seperate thread in 337 forum


----------



## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

hurtswhenipee said:


> yeah, what does that guy have exactly?
> 
> list is in a seperate thread in 337 forum


 :thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Anyone able to get the Misfire Counter enabled? I keep checking it off and flashing the ECU and it doesn't stick.


----------



## guy022077 (Feb 25, 2004)

im 98%gonna buy this friday (or today) is there a list someplace that would tell me what ecus do not or cannot have the things marked "some applications"?

ive got me5.9.2 98 AEB i dont care that much about either thing but i dont want to waste time setting it up if it is not meant to work on my car.

flash and reflash the ECU (base file closely matched to your requirements will be provided)
retrieve and clear fault codes
view measuring blocks
start logging function
initiates Powertap Firmware updates
*launch quick tune (some applications)*
*activate 2 step (some applications)*
turn emission diagnostics on and off (to be used for off road applications)
read ECU identification information
free firmware upgrades as features are added


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

guy022077 said:


> im 98%gonna buy this friday (or today) is there a list someplace that would tell me what ecus do not or cannot have the things marked "some applications"?
> 
> ive got me5.9.2 98 AEB i dont care that much about either thing but i dont want to waste time setting it up if it is not meant to work on my car.
> 
> ...


I cannot find an updated version of the 2 step but i know its for the following since april

AWP-AWW (2001-2005 golf jetta 1.8T)
AMB (2003-2005 Audi A4 1.8T, 2002 to be tested yet)
AWM(2001 Audi A4 1.8T)


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

How are you guys measuring any gains, if any, from your adjustments on the street (street tuning)?

i.e. I can raise my timing all day (running E85), but at some point I will pass MBT. How can I log for that and know when enough is enough?

Thanks,
Rey


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

I hooked up my BAM 225 MAF today just to see if I would get any g/s readings. I did, but that also turned off TCS. Why would adding MAF turn off TCS?


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

just saw there is an software update, anyone using it yet? anything new worth being excited about? 

:sly:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

carsluTT said:


> just saw there is an software update, anyone using it yet? anything new worth being excited about?
> 
> :sly:


 umm the software update from way back in October?? :screwy:


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

The last batch of updates have definitely improved user experience a lot in using maestro. I was constantly getting booted and updated was a pain in the nuts. Now it's a lot better. In a year I'll prolly be happy


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

screwball said:


> The last batch of updates have definitely improved user experience a lot in using maestro. I was constantly getting booted and updated was a pain in the nuts. Now it's a lot better. In a year I'll prolly be happy


 i agree.:beer:


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

gaaahhhhh.. 


i really gotta get a spare ECU and get maestro... :beer:


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> umm the software update from way back in October?? :screwy:


 i just noticed the date on the update....... some how my system didnt let me know about the updates till now.... oh well better on the 2nd buss then on the wrong buss ahah......


----------



## dantheman18t (Oct 24, 2008)

This is in version 1.8.4, so make sure you are running this version. Looks like V1.8.1 will not update automatically, so you may need to grab it from the server. 
The dates listed for the links in the user area will no longer change now that the software notifies users of updates, but the setup.exe they point to will always have the latest release. 

by the look of this the date will allways stay the same but it will be the lastes one


----------



## nbkkb7x (Jan 12, 2009)

I'm sure this issues has been solved before, but what would be my options for swapping over from a Uni 630cc BT File? Would Maestro help with the immob issue if I were to get a stock ecu to flash off of? Can I pull my SKC with Maestro?


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I had to sell my Uni stuff and buy a used ECU. I sent that to Arnold at PAG and he took care of the rest. I got the cable/flashloader drop shipped to me from Eurodyne and Arnold got the ECU back to me to pop in the car.


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

When it's time to crank up the boost from WG pressure, do I need to change the map so requested meets the new actual or can I just bolt on a MBC and twist it up?


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

just pop a boost controller in and turn it up.


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

you know you got quality when it's that easy


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

anyone else getting connection issues when hooked up to ur car


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

weenerdog3443 said:


> anyone else getting connection issues when hooked up to ur car


 What version are you on?


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

just updated to the latest one today


----------



## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

I was hoping you were going to say an older version... crap.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

2literA2 said:


> I was hoping you were going to say an older version... crap.


 haha yea I know. now it says all my vehicle info is unknown and cant connect. Also diid it on the previous version.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Reinstall it. I've had that happen before too. On the current stuff I've been peachy though.


----------



## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

Have anyone tried the updated 2 step launch control yet? Also.... Im installing an RMR manifold and an autotech 195 intake cam on saturday, have any of you done this and have any experience with the tuning of ny of this items? Thanks and merry christmas guys.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

PernellGTI said:


> Have anyone tried the updated 2 step launch control yet? Also.... Im installing an RMR manifold and an autotech 195 intake cam on saturday, have any of you done this and have any experience with the tuning of ny of this items? Thanks and merry christmas guys.


updated 2 step? you mean the update that allowed you to just use 2 step instead of 2 step and WOT? If so then yes, many people have. It works great.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Looking for tips on tuning my new 70mm throttle body.

stock intake manifold on AWP head
70mm throttle body with INA adapter plate
630cc injectors
MAFless

I started with adjusting the kg/hr values in both Alpha N and Throttle Angle vs airflow maps. This helped tremendously but didnt have enough time fully adjust it so had to put stock TB back on.

Are there any other changes i should make except those two?

I was suggested adjusting the battery compensation map in Fueling area and adjusting fuel at idle (not sure how to do it).


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Being your stock Head/IM it should be pretty straightforward. Izvw has a (3-5pg) post on the Eurodyne board that actually touches on everything needed to make the file run well.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

screwball said:


> Being your stock Head/IM it should be pretty straightforward. Izvw has a (3-5pg) post on the Eurodyne board that actually touches on everything needed to make the file run well.


I must have missed that post when i was looking for it, i will check it out. thanks.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

it's a long post and the title has nothing to do w/ larger TBs, but the info in there is very pertinent. Bananas (who seems to be the most knowledgable laymen that's giving info out on Maestro) goes in to great detail.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

screwball said:


> it's a long post and the title has nothing to do w/ larger TBs, but the info in there is very pertinent. Bananas (who seems to be the most knowledgable laymen that's giving info out on Maestro) goes in to great detail.


This thread?

http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=41

titled "throttle angle vs. airflow map, compensate for TB"


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Has anybody successfully written a E85 file for 70mm TB?

I have GT3071R kit :biggrinsanta:


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Sorry Nub, tha's the one. didn't realize it was mescaline.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

screwball said:


> Sorry Nub, tha's the one. didn't realize it was mescaline.


No problem. what does your alpha N map look like? I used the figures provided in the post on eurodyne and had to add 4 to even make it idle right. I am going to spend all day tomorrow tuning the car.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

what did your fuel trims settle to?


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

screwball said:


> what did your fuel trims settle to?


I havent checked that, i just ended up trying to stabilize the idle and not make it sound like a dam v8 on cams.

Which block is fuel trims?


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Block 032 is FTs
Block 031 is your Air/Fuel in Lambda


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

screwball said:


> Block 032 is FTs
> Block 031 is your Air/Fuel in Lambda


right on, i was leaning towards 32 but i knew it as fuel adaptation. once i wake up fully i will go check it out at idle.

Its just kind of wierd how much more i had to add to the kg/hr in alpha N to make it idle well. Even the 80mm TB file doenst have that much going in.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I always showed way lean at idle and then rich under load w/ the 70mm file on my car, but I'm also running the AEB and RMR so it definiely flows more air overall. Tapp said his 70mm file was based on a stock small port head and stock intake manifold.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

screwball said:


> I always showed way lean at idle and then rich under load w/ the 70mm file on my car, but I'm also running the AEB and RMR so it definiely flows more air overall. Tapp said his 70mm file was based on a stock small port head and stock intake manifold.


Thats what happened to mine. It was so lean the air/fuel gauge didnt even register it, even though block 031 showed i was 14.7. So i added more to the alpha N map and the idle stabilized and the air/fuel started to show 14.7 at idle finally.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

After several days i stumbled upon this Trace Histogram function. Thank god for it lol. Ive been crunching numbers for the past couple of days (not ALLL day but a good amount).

I hooked up the MAF and recirculated the DV with the 70mm TB. Drove around for a good amount of time to run quiet a good amount of logs and then reviewed them. 

MAF was the audi tt 225 file. 3" housing with 3" turbo inlet and stock sensor.

This is trace histogram running with Average











This is the one posted on eurodyne forums... mine is ALOT different


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Seems like there is something weird in my map. I can adjust throttle with gaspedal up to about 50%, but there doesn't seem to be any possibility to adjust anything between 50% - 100%. It just goes 40-50-100%. 

Anyway to fix this?


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Gulfstream said:


> Seems like there is something weird in my map. I can adjust throttle with gaspedal up to about 50%, but there doesn't seem to be any possibility to adjust anything between 50% - 100%. It just goes 40-50-100%.
> 
> Anyway to fix this?


 You mean you cant get readings with maestro log for 40% throttle etc or that your Alpha N/throttle angle vs airflow map has strange values on the X/Y axis? 

Pics would help to understand


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Dub-Nub said:


> You mean you cant get readings with maestro log for 40% throttle etc or that your Alpha N/throttle angle vs airflow map has strange values on the X/Y axis?
> 
> Pics would help to understand


 no, when Im driving it feels like when pedal is halfway depressed it jumps between 50% and 100%. 

The 2nd half of pedal travel does nothing.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

There is a fine line where you have to hold the pedal to get specific readings, i freaking hate it. Problem is the oem tune is pretty much the same way i think. As soon as it reads 51% i think it goes to 100%


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

damn... better get used to that then...


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

I think that's how VWoA did it. I mean, if you are going to gun in to 50% may as well do it to 100% :laugh:


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

well, sometimes I coast in 6th gear uphill and want to keep the speed, not unleash hell. 


Would be nice to modulate 50-100% but cant get it all I guess.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Gulfstream said:


> well, sometimes I coast in 6th gear uphill and want to keep the speed, not unleash hell.
> 
> 
> Would be nice to modulate 50-100% but cant get it all I guess.


 Agreed. I dont have hill around here so i cant comment on what you are experiencing


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

So i got the car running for the most part. 

70mm S4 unit. Ive been running my car with a MAF for a week to get as many readings as i can and i have put together my map well enough to have it drive and not misfire/idle poorly/etc. Cruising a/f is ~14.7. WOT is ~12. I only adjusted the Alpha N map and Throttle Angle vs Airflow in Maestro 7. 

Two issues 
1 - If i WOT in 3rd gear at higher rpms like 4k after slowly building up to 4k the throttle plate will only open a max of 24.75% during WOT. This creates a constriction and boost is dropped by 5psi. I have a 14.5 spring so it goes to 10 psi, then when i shift into 4th at WOT it would boost without issues to 15 psi. This can happen occasionally if i short shift from 3rd to 4th at like 5k at WOT, it would happen also. 

2 - While cruising if i put it into neutral and coast the a/f would go to 10 which is .750. It would stay there for at least 4 seconds before going back to 14.7. The idle fluctuates between 10 during lift off at shifting to 14.7 then occasionally at 16. 

Anyone got any input while im at work? Once i get home i will play around with it a bit more.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

You guys are still messing with this garbage? Unless you are chris tapp or have him on speed dial you will never get itright. He can't even answer how half of the tables work and are dependent.. 

I got rid of maestro and would rather smash my genitals with a ball peen hammer than hear his horse crap excuses or have my car unable to be driven due to a bad flash like the three times it happened before with his buggy crap.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> You guys are still messing with this garbage? Unless you are chris tapp or have him on speed dial you will never get itright. He can't even answer how half of the tables work and are dependent..
> 
> I got rid of maestro and would rather smash my genitals with a ball peen hammer than hear his horse crap excuses or have my car unable to be driven due to a bad flash like the three times it happened before with his buggy crap.


 The same can be said about unitroinc as my car is currently off the road because they take forever to flash an ECU (for the third time now) and cannot get the tuning right. I wouldn't let this discourage anyone from buying Maestro7, at least then the responsibility is in your hands and you don't have to wait for someone north of the border to flash your ECU.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

they hsould have a fix for this too, i know unitronics does...


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Dubnub, my car does pretty similar stuff, but I also get this great fat 10:1 rich spot when boost comes on to about 6500 in any gear.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

screwball said:


> Dubnub, my car does pretty similar stuff, but I also get this great fat 10:1 rich spot when boost comes on to about 6500 in any gear.


 im not worried about the rich part as much as i am about the throttle body being limited to 23% open at WOT at certain times. Im wondering if its like limp mode.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I know if I'm in 4th on the highway and I'm above 4.5k or so and I floor it, most of the time I don't hit full boost, I just go up to like 12lbs or so. I can let off and refloor it and it'll take, but it sounds like the same thing you're experiencing.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

screwball said:


> I know if I'm in 4th on the highway and I'm above 4.5k or so and I floor it, most of the time I don't hit full boost, I just go up to like 12lbs or so. I can let off and refloor it and it'll take, but it sounds like the same thing you're experiencing.


 maybe it is, but i am wanting to know why this happens. Its not normal, at least i dont think it is. Its a bit annoying cause if i want to take off after getting into second gear i dont hit full boost and it feels like the car is choking up. When i go to the drag strip next month i dont want this **** to happen heh. 

I noticed that when this happens the o2 correction at WOT and 23% throttle is really high. Im wondering if this happens because the o2 correction is that or if the o2 correction is that high because this happens..gah this is killing me. Im playing around with the Alpha N map right now trying to smooth everything out.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

I did a run at 25psi today. Noticed when the MAP sensor maxed out at 23psi the o2 correction jumped from around 0 to like 17-18 and stayed there. 

Comments?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

screwball said:


> I know if I'm in 4th on the highway and I'm above 4.5k or so and I floor it, most of the time I don't hit full boost, I just go up to like 12lbs or so. I can let off and refloor it and it'll take, but it sounds like the same thing you're experiencing.


screw, can you give me a screenshot of your alpha and tb vs airflow maps? I fixed my problem with not fully boosting when WOT at high rpms and want to know if you have the maps configured the same way when i had my problem.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Mine are based on the stock 630/70mm file, I did not retain any of the settings I messed with. I'll shoot you a PM w/ my email so we can talk further.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

Is anyone running a 2L 16VT with maestro?

Im looking to get a better base for my car?

I have a 630/70 file.... but its just not right....


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Tune*

So i've about had it with this software. My car runs like complete crap and i'm getting ready to sell my Tapp tuned 840CC ecu and maestro. I've emailed Chris numerous times and he doesn't respond to any of them. He sent me one file back in May of 2010 for my siemens 840cc injectors and my car ran perfect for about a month. Now its back to crap again. And Chris doesn't even have a file written for my injectors anymore which makes me think that my injectors are complete crap and that I should get rid of them. I've double checked triple checked everything mechanically on my car and theres is nothing wrong with it. The tune is the problem. I'm giving it one more shot with some 630cc injectors but if that doesnt solve the problem i'm selling everything and starting over again.


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

gdoggmoney said:


> You guys are still messing with this garbage? Unless you are chris tapp or have him on speed dial you will never get itright. He can't even answer how half of the tables work and are dependent..
> 
> I got rid of maestro and would rather smash my genitals with a ball peen hammer than hear his horse crap excuses or have my car unable to be driven due to a bad flash like the three times it happened before with his buggy crap.


I totally agree with you man. My car runs like crap and has been it seems ever since my car ran with this software. I'm completely fed up.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

jettaman18t said:


> So i've about had it with this software. My car runs like complete crap He sent me one file back in May of 2010 for my siemens 840cc injectors and *my car ran perfect for about a month*. Now its back to crap again. .


So it ran perfect for a month, and its the tune???? That seems kinda funny... Not saying its not the tune, but to have it run perfect for a month and then get worse, something isn't right


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

I know it doesnt sound right. But its true. I've looked over everything coilpacks, spark plugs, etc. Nothing has changed on my car at all. Do you think its possibly the change in the season and colder weather? And how can Tapp explain how he has no file for my 840CC injectors anymore. Seems to me that he realized they were as crappy as i told him they were and that he deleted the file because everyones car on those injectors ran like crap. I'm hoping to get a set of either 630s or 830s and flashing my car again with the injector wizard. If that doesn't solve it this tapp stuff is gone for good.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

If you do change Injectors, I'd try the 630's before the 870's... We have the same turbo and I kind of wish I would of went with the 630 over the 870... I doubt its the cold, I mean how cold does it get in California:laugh:


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

duke_seb said:


> Is anyone running a 2L 16VT with maestro?
> 
> Im looking to get a better base for my car?
> 
> I have a 630/70 file.... but its just not right....


 i'm running a 2L 8vT with maestro on the 830cc 1.8t file and no issues except for the occasional comm issues when logging.


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## xtremvw2 (Nov 27, 2010)

we love it easy to use car runs awesome even this am it was -21 degree celcius started and ran perfect

just run the 630cc your good to over 425whp so if your not making that then run the 630cc best software out
there period.


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

I'm willing to try the 630s out but I currently don't have a set. I either need to borrow some or buy some. If the car runs good on 630s then i'm keeping the software if not i'm done with Tapp stuff. Anyone wanna lend me some 630's? Siemens 840s have to be the worst injectors ever. My buddy couldnt get his car to run right on his unitronic software either.


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## JumboBlack1.8 (Sep 23, 2006)

I'm willing to bet that MANY of your running issues are due to 1.) your injectors not being properly dialed in (incorrect battery voltage compensation, Injection correction, and injector constant values), and 2.) the quality of your injectors. Those that have committed to buying higher quality injectors (which are provided with flow data) and using the proper values in those tables have managed to make their Maestro7-tuned cars run GREAT.

Either ****ty injectors (have heard bad things about Siemens injectors...) or incorrect injector fueling values WILL result in a car that runs like crap.....everywhere. Bosch EV-14, Injector Dynamics, and Genesis injectors all have great response time, and are accurate to very low pulsewidths....which, on low-displacement motors is essential....


Just don't trust all the preset values in the base-tune. I'm working to get my injectors perfectly dialed in before I touch ANYTHING else.....and, as a result, the car runs better and better everyday. Idle is nearly stock-like (1k RPMs, injector pulsewidth @ 1.75, ~28 Engine Load, and +/- 4 o2 correction.....all of these can and will be lowered) aside from an occasional small blip (likely due to my Alpha N table and actual idle air-mass being off)........Do some research on how ME-7 works, and you can definitely manage to get Maestro working well

From experience tho, I recommend keeping an MAF in the equation :banghead:


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

Very well said. But how can we both understand why tapp deleted his siemens 840cc injector file? I'm getting a set of 830s shipped to me so I can flash my ecu with the 830 file to see if it runs better. Would you be willing to help me dial in these 830 injectors if I end up keeping this software. I mean I really don't understand the whole how to tune your own car and all that goes along with it.


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## JumboBlack1.8 (Sep 23, 2006)

jettaman18t said:


> Very well said. But how can we both understand why tapp deleted his siemens 840cc injector file? I'm getting a set of 830s shipped to me so I can flash my ecu with the 830 file to see if it runs better. Would you be willing to help me dial in these 830 injectors if I end up keeping this software. I mean I really don't understand the whole how to tune your own car and all that goes along with it.


I'm probably not the person to ask, as I'm learning a lot as I go. Unfortunately, I fear too many people jumped onto the Maestro7 bandwagon because they ASSUMED it'd be as straight-forward as Lemmiwinks, when in fact, it's MUCH closer to Megasquirt.....As I've learned in the last few weeks of research, effectively tuning a car with Maestro7 (or any advanced tuning suite) requires a much greater knowledge of how the ECU works......Its up to the user to find the information they need to successfully write their tune. My advice is just to google general tuning information. Don't restrict your search to Maestro7 information or Audi/VW (although there are certain limitations you shouldn't exceed in an ME7 ecu)

Heres a thread on Injector and MAF scaling that helped me out a good deal:

http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=55.0title=

It explains the process by which you set your Injector Latency (or Battery Voltage Compensation) and KRKTE (Injector Constant), which are the two baseline values from which ALL fueling calculations are made. It's wise to set these two values before any other changes are made. I zero'd all maps related to fuel correction (main fuel, injection correction, etc) and started with dialing in the injectors...These two values have the largest effect on idle and low-load conditions. If the injectors are properly dialed in, theoretically, you shouldn't need to make ANY Main Fuel Corrections to in low-load conditions....you'll only need to do so under boost.......This process takes a LOT of trial and error. Unfortunately, I don't have access to my LTFT's, so I've been making small incremental changes until I see the results I need.

Dialing in your MAF is an equal long and complicated process...For this, I can't provide any advice, as I'm runing a MAF-less file (I HATE running without an MAF. The Alpha-N table is not accurate, and it's pretty hard to populate it without and airmass readings to use as a baseline......My advice, KEEP YOUR MAF.....your car will run better)

A word to the wise, if you have no desire to be CONSTANTLY tweaking and adjusting your file, don't get Maestro7. It's not a simple plug and play tune. It'll get you going, but it's a BASE file....not a finished product.....You must do work on the tune to get it to run safely and smoothly.....If this doesn't appeal to you, get a custom dyno tune. If I hadn't inherited my car with this software, I definitely would have gone that route.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

JumboBlack1.8 said:


> I'm probably not the person to ask, as I'm learning a lot as I go. Unfortunately, I fear too many people jumped onto the Maestro7 bandwagon because they ASSUMED it'd be as straight-forward as Lemmiwinks, when in fact, it's MUCH closer to Megasquirt.....As I've learned in the last few weeks of research, effectively tuning a car with Maestro7 (or any advanced tuning suite) requires a much greater knowledge of how the ECU works......Its up to the user to find the information they need to successfully write their tune. My advice is just to google general tuning information. Don't restrict your search to Maestro7 information or Audi/VW (although there are certain limitations you shouldn't exceed in an ME7 ecu)
> 
> Heres a thread on Injector and MAF scaling that helped me out a good deal:
> 
> ...



this man speaks the truth in regards to length of time to properly dial in injection and MAF, i started the linked thread a while ago when i was starting off with the 630's. BOY DID IT TAKE LONG!!!!

Let me say it again, IT TOOK A WHILE

I kid you not, i had at least 40 flashes until i had the injection spot on. MAF wasnt sooo bad. as i was understanding ME7 better and the MAF is easier to calibrate as its a widely used MAF in the ford scene(talking about Hitachi).


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

BUMP


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

would anyone be willing to send me there tune or a tune so that i can play with it in maestro?

i have the software downloaded on my comp but all my files for my car are back at home.

i didnt think that i would need them in iraq but reading all this stuff makes me want to play around with it and learn as much as i can if anything while i am away/

it would be greatly appreciated

thanks


db


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

I sent an email to chris but wanting to get some input from the people running 2 step. 

Currently 2-step works well. He has it separated out so you can turn them off and have no lift shift/2 step engage/disengaged separately. I suggested that he have 2-step off when the clutch it not engaged while car is not moving. This will not put a limit to revving car at idle. Right now i cant rev past 4k cause it pops like a shotgun :laughs:. Would be nice to hear my exhaust or show my buddies the new 3".


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

can someone give me an idea how to fix my throttle.... I have a 70mm TB and the car revs up to 3000 then idle over and over again.... I want to log the car and work out the AFR but I need to fix this first


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

I dont suppose anyone has the maps for a 2L 8V?

its an odd question but with the 630/70 flash I have im having all sorts of problems.... I put my 2L ECU on the car and it seems to idle good and sounds better overall.... only problem is that it runs rich.... 

does anyone know where to get them or if there is a way to access them off the 2L ECU?


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## Ephry73 (Feb 18, 2002)

What's the total price for this setup? 

E


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

around 1000


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## Ephry73 (Feb 18, 2002)

Damn, son! That's some mula. I know I cannot have it all. I'm still looking to upgrade hardware as well. I won't mess with re-flash or programming of any kind without solid hardware. 

E


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I paid $890 for Maestro.

Hey JumboBlack you wanna give a recap on what you're doing to properly scale and injector for us dumbasses?


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

hey guys.. i have a question about maestro.

i'm running a stock turbo right now with a shaved bay, no sai, evap, or anything and i need to pass emissions in nj.. i'm planning on going big turbo later this summer. can i run maestro with a stock turbo file with the readiness forced and cel's off to pass and then change over to a big turbo file later on? thanks


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Once you force readiness to pass you'll automatically fail. You'll need to reinstall and/or resistor some of the stuff you pulled to see if you can get readiness to pass w/out forcing it. I believe some earlier years are allowing a single fault code in memory before it pops a CEL which is another automatic fail. If you have no CAT you can try and use an angle adapter to fool the ECU. Without knowing specifically what else you pulled and if it's physically gone or just unplugged in your engine bay will determine how much work you need to do to get it through inspection legally. 

You can also source a bootleg inspection sticker and just go that route.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

screwball said:


> Once you force readiness to pass you'll automatically fail. You'll need to reinstall and/or resistor some of the stuff you pulled to see if you can get readiness to pass w/out forcing it. I believe some earlier years are allowing a single fault code in memory before it pops a CEL which is another automatic fail. If you have no CAT you can try and use an angle adapter to fool the ECU. Without knowing specifically what else you pulled and if it's physically gone or just unplugged in your engine bay will determine how much work you need to do to get it through inspection legally.
> 
> You can also source a bootleg inspection sticker and just go that route.


hmm alright.. i have everything resistored off but i'm still getting the code for evap improper flow and sai improper flow.. i did a wire tuck on the bay so all the wires for sai and evap aren't there anymore lol so i can't just put them back in. i have a spacer on the o2 sensor that works so nothing to worry about there besides visual. 

but i found this and i might try and give this a go:

Passing Secondary Air Readiness:
1. Turn car on, let idle. Vag-com -> Engine / Measuring Blocks
2. Block 77 -> click GO
3. Raise RPM to 2k and hold it there, and click Basic Settings
4 Watch the channels, one of them should say Test ON, wait till it says Sys OK, or something like that. Readiness for secondary air should now be passed. Edit: Note- when you click basic settings while holding the revs, you will immediately drop back to idle, and no matter what you do with the gas pedal, nothing will happen. This, i'm assuming, is only pertaining to DBW 1.8t's like me.

Passing Evaporative Emissions Readiness:
1. Step one same as above
2. Block 70 -> click GO
3. Leave car IDLING, and click basic settings.
4. Same as above. Once block 70 passed, repeat from step 2 using block 71.

Once in basic settings, these tests took anywhere from 10 seconds to just under a minute to pass. Close measuring blocks / basic settings and verify in readiness that everything's cool, and you're ready to pass inspection.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

If that actually works it would be huge.


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## ricky_vwt (Nov 30, 2005)

Something I have just found is for the very first start and/or after long periods of not starting vehicle: 
1. Start engine for 1 second, shut it of leave key on
2. CRank engine but do not start leave key on(you will notice CEL turn off intrument cluster)
3. Start vehicle
after you complete this steps ECU will think that your car is warmed up SAi pump will not turn on vehicle will idle at 1000 and no CEL light.I have done this for over a week no problems so far,this week ill chek my rediness, I have No cat- O2sensor with angle block, no SAi PUMP and no resistor on the connector, good so far.


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## Ephry73 (Feb 18, 2002)

is there a way to tweak the startup process to mimic that? I want to keep all of the emission's stuff in my wife's car because I don't know anyone that can "do" the test for me. I still want better efficiency and perhaps fuel comsuption from the car. 

E


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## ID1000ccBT (Feb 14, 2011)

Is anyone running ID1000s on their car? 

I'm running these injectors on my car with a 30R. 

I just flashed the Eurodyne Mestro 910cc file which was tweaked by Chris for the injectors because he doesn't have a file for them. I'm getting a whole lot of back firing and popping under *any* type of load. Used to have a Uni 630 file. Car was running perfect before this issue. Brand new O2 sensor was installed in anticipation of the file. Nothing else has changed other than the brand new O2 sensor and the ECU flash so it can't be the O2 sensor. Anyone???


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

you need to make sure you adjust the battery voltage compensation map and injector constant. Do you know what those values are?

Im running the ID725's and do no thave backfiring unless its WOT and i lift off (water meth :laugh..and its only one pop


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## ID1000ccBT (Feb 14, 2011)

Dub-Nub said:


> you need to make sure you adjust the battery voltage compensation map and injector constant. Do you know what those values are?
> 
> Im running the ID725's and do no thave backfiring unless its WOT and i lift off (water meth :laugh..and its only one pop


Well, supposedly he did a calculation and scaled the injectors. Not sure if that included adjusting the map and IC. I have no idea what the values are. I'm a complete noob to all this lol. I mean flashing the program and messing around with the 2step NLS seems easy enough. I haven't messed with or checked anything else. Haven't scanned for codes either but will tonight. I'll look for the map and IC tonight. What values should I have? Does ID have them on their site or sumtin?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

ID1000ccBT said:


> Well, supposedly he did a calculation and scaled the injectors. Not sure if that included adjusting the map and IC. I have no idea what the values are. I'm a complete noob to all this lol. I mean flashing the program and messing around with the 2step NLS seems easy enough. I haven't messed with or checked anything else. Haven't scanned for codes either but will tonight. I'll look for the map and IC tonight. What values should I have? Does ID have them on their site or sumtin?


Taken from Injectordynamics.com











If you are 3 bar FPR use the 43.5 psi figures. You need to convert to ms. So 2.60, 1.675 etc. The figures will be slightly less when they are inputted.

As for the injector constant, use the following to calculate beginning

50.2624 * displacement of one cylinder / Qstat of injectors

for a 1.8t use
50.2625 * .45 / qstat

The Qstat is whats hard to figure out. The ID are flowed using gasoline instead of n-heptane (which is used to calculate qstat). I had the 725's and used a Qstat of 498 to begin with after locating a .xls that helps with conversion. But i had to move it up.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

you can upload your .tapp file and PM me the link to download, i will take a look at it really quickly and see what i can come up with. Give me a list of all your modifications also.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

What do you mean by Qstat? (to dubnub)

Why are the battery compensation values for my base 630 siemen file different then the values on this link ~ http://injector-rehab.com/shop/lag.html for instance the @ 14v is .28ms in the link but mine on the base file is .4374ms @ 14v. 

I've had issues trying to get my injector latency down.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> What do you mean by Qstat? (to dubnub)
> 
> Why are the battery compensation values for my base 630 siemen file different then the values on this link ~ http://injector-rehab.com/shop/lag.html for instance the @ 14v is .28ms in the link but mine on the base file is .4374ms @ 14v.
> 
> I've had issues trying to get my injector latency down.


Qstat = Injector constant

That's the downfall of the siemens deka injectors, they dont do factory battery votlage compensation maps like Injector Dynamics do.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

so your basically telling me that I have to wing it with the battery compensation values?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> so your basically telling me that I have to wing it with the battery compensation values?


What are you trying to accomplish? and what issues are you having? what is your setup?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

My setup is mechanicly sound. Its just idle is pis pour when its cold out and when its on the warmer side its still is a little on the rough side but not as bad. I'm running 630cc siemens on the 630 base file. Its not overfueling at idle its just my latency is off. Therefore I need to find a way to aquire the right compensation for my setup. According to arnold theres a process with some of the ECU's he's delt with on this base file that were running the same way. He is just too busy to send the info so I'm trying to figure it out.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Another siemens injector bounce 

I read some people reducing the battery voltage compensation by up to 25 % to solve the problem. Bring the values back to normal and start reducing the values 5% at a time.

You can bring up the injector constant to like .047 or so also.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

thats where my injector constant is right now. But I'll try the compensation thanks alot.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Should have my cable in the mail tomorrow! Arnold @ Pagparts has been excellent help. Pretty excited to see how the car runs after the injectors, fuel pump, and this awwsum tuning

P.S, this thread took forever to read, but a lot of good info here:beer::thumbup:


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## JumboBlack1.8 (Sep 23, 2006)

I've been told NEVER to scale injector latency values by percentage. But rather to make incremental changes uniformly across all voltage levels (i.e. reduce all values by .1 ms). The important part about your injector latency table is the shape of the curve. Scaling by percent is totally counter-intuitive.......If you are using an Bosch EV-14 base injectors, use the Injector Dynamics table (like the one post above, but choose the table for YOUR injector size) and begin to scale down uniformly from there.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Scaling the battery compensation values down by 10% seemed to work a lot better. By reducing the values the same percent wouldn't you still get the same curve? From what I've seen it doesnt look as if its changed.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Alright so my car sat around for two days without being started and when i did start it it started to act wierd. It would randomly hold ~10 a/f ratio when cruising. I went to punch it last night and got a **** ton of misfires.

Im pretty sure my o2 sensor is failing.

So here is my question, since mafless file goes off the primary o2 sensor...what are the signs of it failing?

When i pulled into work my idle was solid 10 a/f, o2 correction showed 23 ish. 

The 10 a/f was showing via AEM wideband gauge, but it was actually showing 2.0 a/f on maestro log (i think its like 28, which is why o2 correction was so high to try and stoic it out).

When i gunned it for the log the maestro log showed a/f was like 2.0 - 4.0 which is unbelieveable, yet the aem weideband was fine..it just went to 10 from punching it then evened out at 11.

Anyone else agree that its an o2 sensor? Ive had it for quite some time and its been through hell troubleshooting things.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Semi rough idle, vac drops a bit, backfiring at partial throttle when shifting (sometimes), smoke (if not, look at the bumper...it will get darker cuz of the richness). Ck with Flash the "read faults"...you should see the error on primary sensor. Also, high O2 correction. I changed my sensor about two weeks ago. I have been wondering if water meth has something to do with it...


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

Yes meth kills O2's


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

VRT said:


> Yes meth kills O2's


That is incorrect. Methanol is an oxygenate and as such causes much less harm to o2 sensors even compared to straight gasoline.

Now lead which is found in various race fuels does cause sensor polluting and failure.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

has anyone run into sporadic idle with 70mm/630cc file?

car will idle sporadically while warming up but then work alright .... then then it will come back

faulty TB? or issues with file?


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

mine holds steady...I will say that if there is a big swing in temps it will get dumb for day or so till it adjusts.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

duke_seb said:


> has anyone run into sporadic idle with 70mm/630cc file?
> 
> car will idle sporadically while warming up but then work alright .... then then it will come back
> 
> faulty TB? or issues with file?


Seems a lot of people are reporting issues with idle bounce (following a couple threads) most seem to think its the Seimens 630cc injectors.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Seems a lot of people are reporting issues with idle bounce (following a couple threads) most seem to think its the Seimens 630cc injectors.



can you point me to those threads?

right now we are thinking its the TB car is running fine... just idles like crap

im running mafless 630cc/70mm on a MKIV 2L 16VT


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Just received the flash dongle and emailed Eurodyne. Hoping for a response sometime tomorrow with a user name and password so I can read the ECU. Really excited to get this thing running on BT software!


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

duke_seb said:


> can you point me to those threads?
> 
> right now we are thinking its the TB car is running fine... just idles like crap
> 
> im running mafless 630cc/70mm on a MKIV 2L 16VT


Whats-up-with-this-idle-Videos-inside

:thumbup:

There are some links to other threads in there. Nothing truly conclusive but there is 1 user who spent the cash on new injectors and it solved the problem. Another person seemed get rid of the problem by tweeking the fuel settings.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Whats-up-with-this-idle-Videos-inside
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> There are some links to other threads in there. Nothing truly conclusive but there is 1 user who spent the cash on new injectors and it solved the problem. Another person seemed get rid of the problem by tweeking the fuel settings.


Take a look at Hooty's thread, hes in the process of diagnosing his idle problem.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

duke_seb said:


> can you point me to those threads?
> 
> right now we are thinking its the TB car is running fine... just idles like crap
> 
> im running mafless 630cc/70mm on a MKIV 2L 16VT


double it up!! :thumbup:

http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=809


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Well, running into one problem. I have everything installed (630cc injectors and inline fuel pump). I reflashed the car. I now need to get into maestro 7 editor to change my injectors but everytime i go to open a file, it says flash cable not found I cannot figure out why. Any insight?


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Can anyone give me some insight on how to fix my cruise control. Ever since installing maestro 7 cruise control only works in gears 5 and below? Normally that wouldn't be a problem sept I run a 6 speed. Thanks in advance :beer:


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

velocity196 said:


> Can anyone give me some insight on how to fix my cruise control. Ever since installing maestro 7 cruise control only works in gears 5 and below? Normally that wouldn't be a problem sept I run a 6 speed. Thanks in advance :beer:


Your Maestro now That should be good for the community, One more person to play with stuff to figure things out to help us people that don't have a clue:thumbup:


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

velocity196 said:


> Can anyone give me some insight on how to fix my cruise control. Ever since installing maestro 7 cruise control only works in gears 5 and below? Normally that wouldn't be a problem sept I run a 6 speed. Thanks in advance :beer:


thats very strange, i have a 6 speed swap in mine and my cruise control works just fine. engine code awp with 02m tranny.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

One-Eight GTI said:


> Your Maestro now That should be good for the community, One more person to play with stuff to figure things out to help us people that don't have a clue:thumbup:


sup buddy! im def learning here but a few small things need to be addressed. my 2 step is crazy! as soon as the clutch is pressed it goes into 2 step mode and wont come out of it. even not on the gas not moving just reversing out of my garage as soon as i press the clutch 2 step kicks in lol. its lame! so thats off lol. the cruise control has got to get fixed or ill be going back to my uni ecu after an update but obviously that ll be last resort :beer:



Dub-Nub said:


> thats very strange, i have a 6 speed swap in mine and my cruise control works just fine. engine code awp with 02m tranny.


im exactly the same here. awp that came with a 02j but i swap a 02m in a couple yrs ago. and yes i thought it was strange also that 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th work with no problems but not 6th.


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## DISTURBO (Apr 15, 2003)

I have a aww ecu code with a 6spd swap and no cruise. Thats with Eurodyne and Revo I had


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

DISTURBO said:


> I have a aww ecu code with a 6spd swap and no cruise. Thats with Eurodyne and Revo I had


Just 6th gear no cruise or all gears? Can u send me your coding for cruise control? I'll look mine up tonight after work and send you mine. 

Anyone with a functional cruise control and 6 speed can I have you cruise control coding. You can find it in your cruse control tab in vag com?


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

^^^^^^^Same situation here...


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

velocity196 said:


> Just 6th gear no cruise or all gears? Can u send me your coding for cruise control? I'll look mine up tonight after work and send you mine.
> 
> Anyone with a functional cruise control and 6 speed can I have you cruise control coding. You can find it in your cruse control tab in vag com?


Tell me where to go for the cruise control coding and I can get you mine.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Dub-Nub said:


> Tell me where to go for the cruise control coding and I can get you mine.


That's a great question LOL, I looked fir mine last night but couldn't find it . Think just gunna have to send the file back for tweaking from tapp.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

velocity196 said:


> That's a great question LOL, I looked fir mine last night but couldn't find it . Think just gunna have to send the file back for tweaking from tapp.


well then I dont know heheh. I was using cruise in 6th all the way home so I wouldnt know where to help you troubleshoot.

on a side note, anyone know if the rear o2 needs to be plugged in for the MAF to function 100%? I have it connected and the flowmeter loaded for TT 225 maf scaling for a 3" housing and 1.8T maf, its reading the air coming in but am not sure if its working 100% since my rear o2 is unplugged.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

how to adjust for high o2 corrections other than alfa N and tb vs flow values?

Im getting like 22 o2 correction over 5000rpms.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

I've used a feature that has worked for me.......tracing history. I do a pull and log it. Then I open the main fuel correction map on my tune with maestro. Click on the tracing history and it tells you where to add/decrease fuel and about by how much....click on apply values and reflash the car. My correction is within +/- 5% and sometimes +/- 10%.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

a4e3y5 said:


> I've used a feature that has worked for me.......tracing history. I do a pull and log it. Then I open the main fuel correction map on my tune with maestro. Click on the tracing history and it tells you where to add/decrease fuel and about by how much....click on apply values and reflash the car. My correction is within +/- 5% and sometimes +/- 10%.


maestro log or specific blocks?


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Do the datalog. Open your current tune with Maestro. Go to main fuel correction and click on it. The map will show on your rite. Then in the tab above the map there there is an icon that when you place the arrow in it it reads upload log or something like that. click on it and look for the log you just did then a box will como up for you to star showing the log. It also says trace history...click on it. As the log runs it shows you the cells the car went trhu the pull and shows how much gas to add/decrease.....once the log finishes you can click apply values and save that kile n flash ur car.


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## ID1000ccBT (Feb 14, 2011)

a4e3y5 said:


> Do the datalog. Open your current tune with Maestro. Go to main fuel correction and click on it. The map will show on your rite. Then in the tab above the map there there is an icon that when you place the arrow in it it reads upload log or something like that. click on it and look for the log you just did then a box will como up for you to star showing the log. It also says trace history...click on it. As the log runs it shows you the cells the car went trhu the pull and shows how much gas to add/decrease.....once the log finishes you can click apply values and save that kile n flash ur car.


That is pretty damn amazing. So running a log and using this feature basically changes the maps of the file for you based on what was going on in the log? If so thats pretty damn good.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

ID1000ccBT said:


> That is pretty damn amazing. So running a log and using this feature basically changes the maps of the file for you based on what was going on in the log? If so thats pretty damn good.


Yea, and it works too. I just did it. Have to log using maestro log and then load it in the main window for tuning, then what he said.


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## ID1000ccBT (Feb 14, 2011)

That is pretty freaking sick.....


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

a4e3y5 said:


> I've used a feature that has worked for me.......tracing history. I do a pull and log it. Then I open the main fuel correction map on my tune with maestro. Click on the tracing history and it tells you where to add/decrease fuel and about by how much....click on apply values and reflash the car. My correction is within +/- 5% and sometimes +/- 10%.


yep that's what you're SUPPOSED to do lol


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

so effin cool.


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## ID1000ccBT (Feb 14, 2011)

Maestro log, lots of timing pull in cylinder # 4, none in # 1, why?

Check it Check it [url]https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AudgIrkFQ8YqdGVBdnJWSW1xTUZ6M2FrYXlndVZjN3c&hl=en&authkey=CJKDmdwL#gid=0[/URL]


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

I'm getting some in cyl 3 myself.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

timing pull in 4 or do you mean knock?? interested how u can see individual timing per cylinder..that's strange..


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Knock that is. Man it's late.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

yeah..was gonna say...it's fine..it happens.:beer: the knock that is lol


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

ID1000ccBT said:


> That is pretty freaking sick.....


...and you can do the same with other maps as well


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Anyone with a 6 speed can add coding for the 6 speed in the aption menu on the left. I didn't realize my software was outta date or it's new in the last couple days . I'm sure that will fix no cruise control in 6th gear. Or I hope at least :beer:


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

I have a 6 speed AMU engine code TT with AWP ecu and no cruise in 6th either...if it gets fixed can someone please message me as I rarely go on this site anymore and this is one of the fastest moving threads I subscribe to. Thanks guys


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

jwalker1.8 said:


> I have a 6 speed AMU engine code TT with AWP ecu and no cruise in 6th either...if it gets fixed can someone please message me as I rarely go on this site anymore and this is one of the fastest moving threads I subscribe to. Thanks guys


Grrrr that didn't fix anything :banghead:. I'll let you know what does if I every do get it fixed. And I hope it gets fixed. No cruise control equal STUPID! It's not like we don't drive our hot rods right?


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Lol. I went for a cruise yesterday with the wifey and found that I have no cruise in 6th either. I even told them this was a dd. Wonder why they would think we don't need cruise in 6th.
Awp bt 630 file.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Three3Se7en said:


> Lol. I went for a cruise yesterday with the wifey and found that I have no cruise in 6th either. I even told them this was a dd. Wonder why they would think we don't need cruise in 6th.
> Awp bt 630 file.


I could only assume it's a stupid and simple mistake that got over looked during the process of creating these files. On a different note my uni 830 file cruise control worked so who knows. I just hope he fixes it cuz I drive like 50 miles everyday I work so it's pretty important to me. I got really excited after I called support and they said it's in the newest update. I hurried home to update maestro and sure enough right there it was. Clicked on 6 speed, flashed the car and super excited to drive to work the next morning only to find it didn't do anything . It's ok I'm sure they'll fix it...I hope anyways.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Doesnt make any sense, unless the problem lies with the original flash file received. When i received my file i had a 5 spd and i have been updating my Maestro and flash and it has been working since ive done the 6 speed swap, didnt need to do anything special except swap the transmissions.

edit: just checked my file and its set on 5 speed transmission and my cruise works in 6th.


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Anyone see the button for 5 or 6 speed coding under diagnostics?
It's 5 speed by default. :facepalm:

EDIT: Nevermind; just read velocitys post. :thumbdown:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

someone give me $1000 so i can get meastro for my demon:wave::heart::heart:


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

I take it uni is giving you the runaround? I make pulls to 7k all day. :laugh::laugh:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

well yes and no..and i made pulls to 7500 for two and half years..it's more like i don't think their heading in the right direction..but i could be wrong..and i LOVE my uni ecu..it rips...it eats the maestro cars up..but i wanna try it and have it as another choice for myself and be able to tweak more freely and such and...when i can have an old tuner make me a file sometime and save it..for backup


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## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

Can ppl that have gotten their seimens 630cc inj to idle properly post up their BVC values? I've had no luck getting them to idle smoothly. I've gotten my idle o2 corrections to +\- 4%, but the car idles like crap, especially after doing a pull and coming to a stop


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

yrodin said:


> Can ppl that have gotten their seimens 630cc inj to idle properly post up their BVC values? I've had no luck getting them to idle smoothly. I've gotten my idle o2 corrections to +\- 4%, but the car idles like crap, especially after doing a pull and coming to a stop


From what I've learned this value is different from car to car and injector to injector. Mine needs some adjustment as well. My first trim window is like -7 while the second is +4 IIRC.


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## ID1000ccBT (Feb 14, 2011)

Vegeta Gti said:


> timing pull in 4 or do you mean knock?? interested how u can see individual timing per cylinder..that's strange..


lol, yeah, thats what I meant. 



Three3Se7en said:


> Knock that is. Man it's late.


Yes



Vegeta Gti said:


> yeah..was gonna say...it's fine..it happens.:beer: the knock that is lol


Yeah, but should I be getting that much knock? A buddy of mine was telling me it might be "false knock". Is there anything that would cause this? I mean, I know the usual suspects such as low octane fuel, carbon deposits, etc.... what else could be causing it? Spark plug gap? Also, another friend commented about my log saying the air temps were a little high and mentioned using meth might help this so I'm thinking about going that route to see what happens. Lemme know what you guys think could be causing this.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Vegeta Gti said:


> i LOVE my uni ecu..it rips...it eats the maestro cars up..


 Thanks, I needed a sig...lol


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

Vegeta Gti said:


> .and i LOVE my uni ecu..it rips...it eats the maestro cars up..


ship it over hawaii boy! i got somethin fo ya!


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## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

Also I cant get block 032 to work, it just displays "0" in the first two spots. Anyone else had this issue?


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

yrodin said:


> Also I cant get block 032 to work, it just displays "0" in the first two spots. Anyone else had this issue?


 That's not good, it mean your not trimming. Do u have any codes? What deletes are you running and do you have any resisters installed?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

yrodin said:


> Also I cant get block 032 to work, it just displays "0" in the first two spots. Anyone else had this issue?


 as velocity mentioned, you need resistors if you have it deleted emissions


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## JumboBlack1.8 (Sep 23, 2006)

I have the same issues with block 32.....What resistors do you need to install, and where?......Very interested in this


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Nothing in block 32 means your engine is not fuel adapting. I had the same problem when i first did my deletes. I did not have any resistors and my blocks were always 0, then i added them and had values in block 32. 

Look at the deletes threads, engine bay clean up, etc. they should have the resistor information.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

New maestro update vs 2.0.6, hopeful that solves the 6 speed cruise control issue. 

As far as resisters go the only one that I have is evap solenoid plugged in and I have a n112 I think, the gold solenoid plugged into my vvt line. It's close to the same resistance as the vvt tensioner. I just hid them so they are outta sight. No clue what resister you'll need if you go that rought.


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## JumboBlack1.8 (Sep 23, 2006)

Thanks for the tip. It looks like I'll need at least 4 1/2 watt 330ohm resistors to restore fuel adapting.....then another resistor for my VVT delete.


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## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

Pretty much all my emissions are deleted. What are the resistors that you are talkin about, never heard of them.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

read it 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...timate-SAI-N249-PCV-EVAP-Delete&highlight=DIY


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> ship it over hawaii boy! i got somethin fo ya!


 lol if you don't own it, you ain't got nuttin  

so, any donations for the "help vegeta get maestro for the ol monster" fund? lol:beer:


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

yrodin said:


> Pretty much all my emissions are deleted. What are the resistors that you are talkin about, never heard of them.


 You need to plug in whatever you dont have resistored or just resistor everything. I have seen several threads popping up lately with this issue. If you just leave these open, you fuel trims will not adapt and the car will eventually run like complete crap. Either plug everything back in or resistor them. There are several DIY's on this: 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...e-SAI-N249-PCV-EVAP-Delete&highlight=ultimate 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...moving-SAI-N249-PCV-EVAP&highlight=engine+bay 

Here's two, that should give you a pretty good idea on what resistors to use and how to do it. Good luck:thumbup:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i hide them al land left them plugged in. it was easiest and most reliable.:thumbup:


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Vegeta Gti said:


> i hide them al land left them plugged in. it was easiest and most reliable.:thumbup:


 If I ever do my deletes, ^ is how I'm going to deal with it.:thumbup:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

it really is simple, hiding takes a bit of work, but it's the best way to trouble shoot if something goes crazy wrong that may require thos ecomponents,etc


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## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

so even if ive disabled everything with maestro i still need to use resistors?


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

not if you have the needed pieces plugged in. 

for instance..i don't have my SAI plugged in, but i left the relay. i have my n75 plugged in and hidden, no lines to it cos it isn't needed. rear O2 is in, got rid of the n249 and 112. maf unplugged but hidden. and so on....:beer:


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Before anyone makes it more difficult than it really is only 2 items need to either have resisters or their solenoids plugged in. EVAP, and VVT. Everything else provided you have full deletes will work just fine and fuel adapte with no solenoid or resister. Now the n75 not resistered or plugged in will thro a open curcuit code but it will not stop fuel adaption. If where u live u have to pass emissions and readiness then you will need to put a resister or the n75 back on the plug. No vacuum lines are needed unless your using the boost solenoid. Back to EVAP and VVT, the EVAP solenoid is located on the passenger side of the compartment and is super easy to leave plugged in and hid it under the coolant bottle or fender. VVT plug can have a different solenoid such as the gold n112 I think it's called plugged in and then dropped down and hidden under the coolant flange that's on the side of the head. This is what I've done fir several cars with zero issues on tapp, uni, and revo files so I know it works. If you guys aren't trimming I'd suggest tossing on some solenoids right away to have a properly running car and worry bout resisters later. Best of luck


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

thank you for a full clarification homie :]


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Vegeta Gti said:


> thank you for a full clarification homie :]


 That wasn't fir you dogg, we have spent hrs on the phone an texting getting you to 400+ WHP on that ol small port and small turbo. It was fir the new guys who don't really know. We all start somewhere right?


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## FTMFW (Jan 1, 2008)

Al, when I get home we're going to have a "talk" about some of these deletes. I don't want to screw anything up. :beer: will be provided as well as some opcorn:


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

FTMFW said:


> Al, when I get home we're going to have a "talk" about some of these deletes. I don't want to screw anything up. :beer: will be provided as well as some opcorn:


 LOL sounds good homie


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Also wanted to add one more thing: My Maestro problem is fixed with the new update. 

and some catchup, I installed everything and tuned the ECU. Had a problem with that and Chris helped a decent amount of the night until we got it running. Maestro 7 was then updated and I can now use the full Suite. Before, I would click on Maestro, and it would just error. Just wanted to update just incase anyone else had this problem:thumbup:


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## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

So pretty much I need to go plug on my the evap solenoid and I should get my fuel trims back? Damn, now only if I could find it!


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

yrodin said:


> So pretty much I need to go plug on my the evap solenoid and I should get my fuel trims back? Damn, now only if I could find it!


 :thumbup:


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

yrodin said:


> So pretty much I need to go plug on my the evap solenoid and I should get my fuel trims back? Damn, now only if I could find it!


 or install a 330Ohm resistor.


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## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

Do you guys think that will help with the rough idle with the 630's that I am having also? Well off to the garage to do some searching. 

Do I also need to have the line attached to it or just the plug?


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

yrodin said:


> Do you guys think that will help with the rough idle with the 630's that I am having also? Well off to the garage to do some searching.
> 
> Do I also need to have the line attached to it or just the plug?


 Just electronically plugged in and yes your car should run better. Your fuel trims will be adaptive


----------



## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

So I plugged in the solenoid, let the car warm up and still no fuel trims, its still displaying "0" in the first two spots at idle.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

yrodin said:


> So I plugged in the solenoid, let the car warm up and still no fuel trims, its still displaying "0" in the first two spots at idle.


 I would electronically plug in all of the emission deletes and see where you stand, from there you can narrow down what can and cant be plugged in. If you read Velocity's post he explains what can be unplugged safely.


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## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

Zneith said:


> I would electronically plug in all of the emission deletes and see where you stand, from there you can narrow down what can and cant be plugged in. If you read Velocity's post he explains what can be unplugged safely.


 Great ill plug in my SAI and MAF sensor and see f this changes things.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

yrodin said:


> Great ill plug in my SAI and MAF sensor and see f this changes things.


 I'm not sure like I said on what exactly needs to be hooked up, but I know if I ever do all of my deletes I'm going to just tuck everything away but leave it plugged in electronically. I would hook up your n249, n112, evap, sai, all that bs and see if it is fixed. If it is, you can slowly start removing these again and check your fuel trims to see if htey are at 0. You can see where this is going.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

yrodin said:


> So I plugged in the solenoid, let the car warm up and still no fuel trims, its still displaying "0" in the first two spots at idle.


 Hey bud are u still using VVT? If not plug a solenoid on the that line. And what does block 1 #3 window show you? That's the live trim or o2 correction or what ever it's called LOL but that #3 window is the real time adaption. Block 32 window 1 and 2 will adapt slowly after a few minutes. Actually the 2nd window in long term or load trims. It will adapt quicker than the 1st window.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Question, does anyone elses software richen up right after you press the clutch to shift gears? It goes from stoich to rich then to stoich again once in the next gear. Revo and uni software doesn't do that so I'm just wondering if this is normal for eurodyne software


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i know in one car chad has the has it it does..the 3082 car....that car just runs rich period...


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Vegeta Gti said:


> i know in one car chad has the has it it does..the 3082 car....that car just runs rich period...


 Interesting. I've got my trims pretty solid at -.3 and -3. My injector constant is a lil crazy at .060 and battery voltage compensation is a lil crazy I thought also at .878 starting at 8volts I think going down after that. I don't know it's running good but idle still like to over fuel and it's only running a 1.37ms pulse at idle. It's pretty smooth idling, I'm thinking the rich spot between shifts is cuz the idle is rich but I might be wrong. Anyone else got anything?


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## JumboBlack1.8 (Sep 23, 2006)

velocity196 said:


> Question, does anyone elses software richen up right after you press the clutch to shift gears? It goes from stoich to rich then to stoich again once in the next gear. Revo and uni software doesn't do that so I'm just wondering if this is normal for eurodyne software


 My car does this as well. My timing advance also goes a bit crazy......My motor is currently out of the car at the moment, so I haven't gotten around to trying to address it just yet......Any ideas?


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## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

JumboBlack1.8 said:


> My car does this as well. My timing advance also goes a bit crazy as well......My motor is out of the car at the moment, so I haven't gotten around to trying to address it just yet......Any ideas?


 Is it possible that your are running a BOV or are you MAF-less? Both would cause this issue...


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## JumboBlack1.8 (Sep 23, 2006)

2literA2 said:


> Is it possible that your are running a BOV or are you MAF-less? Both would cause this issue...


 Yup, I'm MAF-less and was running a Forge BOV. When the motor goes back in, I plan on running a 4" intake and MAF housing......hopefully that'll solve the issues I was having


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

I gunna back off on the injector constant. I'm over .060 to meet trims. I'm gunna play a lil with main fuel and see if that helps. We have a 4" intake on the car now and a 70mm throttle of which this is a stock throttle tune. I'm gunna ask fir a 70mm throttle tune but I know he's gunna say no. He's already told me to use the software as it's made to tweak things. Im just afraid to mess to much with throttle values as it can get a lil hairy.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Why he doesn't have a big port 70mm file is beyond me, Maestro or no Maestro. If you want an off the shelf tune w/out Maestro that means Uni's your only canned flash option if you have really more than a stock displacement small port motor.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

velocity196 said:


> I gunna back off on the injector constant. I'm over .060 to meet trims. I'm gunna play a lil with main fuel and see if that helps. We have a 4" intake on the car now and a 70mm throttle of which this is a stock throttle tune. I'm gunna ask fir a 70mm throttle tune but I know he's gunna say no. He's already told me to use the software as it's made to tweak things. Im just afraid to mess to much with throttle values as it can get a lil hairy.


 Theres a fair amount involved with changing the throttle size from reading the FDEF's, however real world, can you tune this in another way to just compensate for things? I havent tried. I am unsure of the maps available to you on Maestro in regards to the Throttle(since newer releases), but if someone knows the Bosch ID's on them or take a screenshot of the map I can dig some info out of the FDEF's to help you understand better as to what you need to do.


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## 2literA2 (Feb 16, 2000)

velocity196 said:


> I gunna back off on the injector constant. I'm over .060 to meet trims. I'm gunna play a lil with main fuel and see if that helps. We have a 4" intake on the car now and a 70mm throttle of which this is a stock throttle tune. I'm gunna ask fir a 70mm throttle tune but I know he's gunna say no. He's already told me to use the software as it's made to tweak things. Im just afraid to mess to much with throttle values as it can get a lil hairy.


 Check out the new additions to Maestro... you can import and export to and from excel and .bin files. Find someone else who is using a 70mm TB and has tuned for it and ask them to export their maps. If running mafless I would start by looking at their Alpha -N map.

Sent from my Droid Incredible using Tapatalk.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

RaraK69 said:


> Theres a fair amount involved with changing the throttle size from reading the FDEF's, however real world, can you tune this in another way to just compensate for things? I havent tried. I am unsure of the maps available to you on Maestro in regards to the Throttle(since newer releases), but if someone knows the Bosch ID's on them or take a screenshot of the map I can dig some info out of the FDEF's to help you understand better as to what you need to do.


 It's approx 10% more flow and should be fairly constant so by tweaking the main fuel map it should bring in that added air flow I was placing on the injector constant. I've already made the change in the maps and I started simple with a global increase of 10%. I'll drive it tonight on my way to work and see what I get. I also decreased injector constant and battery compensation by 10% so I'm curious as to what the out come will be. I left the warm up map unmolested fir now but I have a feeling I'll need to work that over as well. I'm noticing tho at idle it never drops below 1.36ms even when o2 correction is requesting -10%.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

2literA2 said:


> Check out the new additions to Maestro... you can import and export to and from excel and .bin files. Find someone else who is using a 70mm TB and has tuned for it and ask them to export their maps. If running mafless I would start by looking at their Alpha -N map.
> 
> Sent from my Droid Incredible using Tapatalk.


 Good idea, anyone care to share your 70mm tunes alpha n and throttle maps with me?


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## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

So I got my fuel trims to work (took some time to adapt after the EVAP Selonoid was plugged in) 

So after about a 25 min drive I logged my block 032 at idle and this is what I got: 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...DdtQ2tCdlJUbHNqaS15WWc&hl=en&authkey=COTWp5EE 

This is my 02 corrections at idle: 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...nNPWmRoSFA1Vkd2cHJkWkE&hl=en&authkey=CKDa1LcK 

And this is a screen shot of my current BVC values and Injector Constant: 









So I am wondering how block 032 looks? And what do I do from here for my idle? After getting the EVAP Solenoid back in the car seems to idle better (or maybe its just in my head?) My logs under boost seem fine, fueling is good and 02 corrections are +/- 5% for the most parts except a few spots. 

And also is block 032 always checked at idle after driving for a while, or should it be logged while driving? 

Thanks everyone for the help!


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

yrodin said:


> So I got my fuel trims to work (took some time to adapt after the EVAP Selonoid was plugged in)
> 
> So after about a 25 min drive I logged my block 032 at idle and this is what I got:
> 
> ...


 Looks good dude I'd leave everything alone it's well with in spec. Check it again in a day or two. And check it while sitting in ur driveway, car doesn't have to be on. It's changes slowly


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

*In case anyone cares.....*

I have successfully installed Maestro software suite on my MacBook Pro. I am running it on windows7 on parallels virtual machine. Works fantastic. I was comtemplating picking up another cheap windows box but over the weekend tried this workaround and it seems to work to perfection. 

Just a little FYI for the Mac people.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

works on vmware too btw


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## yrodin (Jul 27, 2009)

So since plugging in the EVAP Solenoid Ive been throwing a "P2404" CEL


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

VMware is superior to parellels...you can run alot more on vm with zero issues. 

i run all my windows stuff through vmware...vcds,unisetings,MSD, i have my old autronic stuff on there, my old SDS stuff,etc. 

def good to know more people are doin it with a mac:beer:


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

Being able to blow them out to my 60" tv to look at maps is a big plus too...LOL 

I wasn't sure if anyone had tried it yet but as I see a few have...nice to know it runs on VMware also. I had a copy of Parallels lying around so I figured what the heck.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

man..i gotta try doin that on my tv..i got a 55..that has got be AWESOME in Hd lol 

hmm..how did you go to the tv? through yer network or a HDMi output or something?


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

I am using an HDMI adapter...works like a charm. Soon as I figure out how to do it with my Apple TV I can lose the cable. Its cool because you can see the entire map....albeit huge LOL


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

This is WAY off topic guys and I do appologize in advance. Apple sucks at making computers! LOL, they should stick with mobile gadgets :laugh:


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

velocity196 said:


> This is WAY off topic guys and I do appologize in advance. Apple sucks at making computers! LOL, they should stick with mobile gadgets :laugh:


 Better than Winblows :laugh: 

with Mac, you don't have to worry about infections and such because they are all Micro_suck_ prone. You don't wanna deal with any problems, go to Linux  Goodluck getting Maestro to run on that though


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Zneith said:


> Better than Winblows :laugh:
> 
> with Mac, you don't have to worry about infections and such because they are all Micro_suck_ prone. You don't wanna deal with any problems, go to Linux  Goodluck getting Maestro to run on that though


 Like i was tellin chris, I never pay fir anti virus. If your smart and don't look fir trouble or open chain email your golden. 

On topic a lil is anyone still having problems with cruise control in 6th gear? Mines kicking off cruise every once in a while. Kinda a pain.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

lol your really set on gettin the monster to have cruise control huh? 

yo..text me your info i gotta get boxes out today..been procratinating too much..i need yer addy again to send you your stuff.:beer:


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Cruise fixed for 6th gear? Been away from the car for a while no chance to see. Changed it to 6spd programming and nothing.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Three3Se7en said:


> Cruise fixed for 6th gear? Been away from the car for a while no chance to see. Changed it to 6spd programming and nothing.


 Try flashing the car on 5speed coding. Start it up fir a sec then shut it down. Flash again with the 6sp coding and try it out.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

iTech said:


> I am using an HDMI adapter...works like a charm. Soon as I figure out how to do it with my Apple TV I can lose the cable. Its cool because you can see the entire map....albeit huge LOL


 
good luck.... 

the only way you can pull that off is to take a screen shot of the maps and then airplay them to the TV but then you wont be able to edit them


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

duke_seb said:


> good luck....
> 
> the only way you can pull that off is to take a screen shot of the maps and then airplay them to the TV but then you wont be able to edit them


 +1:thumbup: 

Keep the HDMI cable if you want to do it "live"


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

HDMI FTW!!!! I love watchin HD movies off my lappy . HDMI output on lappies was the coolest thing since kool-aid


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Bootlegs ftw!! :d


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

mmm 50 trim on maestro. I just ordered it today, I was going to go uni but I thought why not have some fun. I am definately going to be keeping up on this thread now, and I'll probably be asking a few of you some annoying questions.


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## OBIWANKANNA974 (Feb 24, 2011)

Hey maestro boys i have 3 questions for you.I have an APR stage 3+ kit on my car and would like to use maestro 7 to go with my future GT3076R upgrade: 

1)Should i send my ECU to install eurodyne 's chip(instesd of APR's EMCS) to go with maestro7? 

2)Is maestro 7 compatible with vagcom(even if i know maestro has a log viewer fuction)? 

3)Is a wideband still useful with maestro's functions? 

Thanks!


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## createddeleted (Sep 24, 2008)

OBIWANKANNA974 said:


> Hey maestro boys i have 3 questions for you.I have an APR stage 3+ kit on my car and would like to use maestro 7 to go with my future GT3076R upgrade:
> 
> 1)Should i send my ECU to install eurodyne 's chip(instesd of APR's EMCS) to go with maestro7?
> 
> ...


 
1. Get another ECU IMHO 
2. Should be. (I dont own M7 yet) 
3. Yes.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

OBIWANKANNA974 said:


> 1)Should i send my ECU to install eurodyne 's chip(instesd of APR's EMCS) to go with maestro7? My friend had APR and had to send his ECU to Chris 'cuz it would not flash...so I'll say yes. It could have been random, though...
> 
> Yes for 2 & 3


 .


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## OBIWANKANNA974 (Feb 24, 2011)

I suppose that a basic file will be installed in eurodyne chip if i send my ECU to them. 
In my case it'd be a 830cc file that i could configurate according to my setup and logs.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

createddeleted said:


> 1. Get another ECU IMHO


 
Def do this but get ur current ecu IMMOB defeated if it already isn't. I have a ECU ready to ship if your interested. 200US shipped conti US . GL


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Hey quick question. I just finished my initial read, and the file output is .maestro 

Is this corrrect, the tutorials say it should be .tapp but is this an updated version?


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

I think that's what mine says. Only the files tapp sends back are .tapp


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Three3Se7en said:


> I think that's what mine says. Only the files tapp sends back are .tapp


 I also get a communication failed try alternate communication method message during the startup of the scan. I'm not sure if it is working correct or not. Anyone have any ideas if this is correct or not? 

edit- was reading on the eurodyne forum and there is a post that says the initial output fill is in mstro format and the base fill will be in tapp format. Seems that this is normal, I guess I will just have to wait for my email response to confirm this.


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

Hey guys! 

It's been a while but I finally pulled the car out of the garage. I've looked around briefly but cannot seem to get any info here.. 

I need to know if anyone with a 70mm TB is running the 1000cc file without idle issues. The thing is.. The stock TB 1000cc file idles like ass BUT WOT is spot on. I also have the 70mm file that idles perfect but pig rich (10.0) WOT.. 

Has anyone tweaked one or the other and can share their maps with me so I can get this sorted out? I'm going to do some looking into the idle values for each file and try to figure out where its going wrong. 

Thanks


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

16plus4v said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> It's been a while but I finally pulled the car out of the garage. I've looked around briefly but cannot seem to get any info here..
> 
> ...


 Are you trimming fuel out? Under WOT check block 1 3rd window. And long term trims are ok? You might be maxing out trims. If your long term trims are good and your maxing out real time trim in block 1 then I'd start pulling out fuel on increasing load before modifying the map.


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

velocity196 said:


> Are you trimming fuel out? Under WOT check block 1 3rd window. And long term trims are ok? You might be maxing out trims. If your long term trims are good and your maxing out real time trim in block 1 then I'd start pulling out fuel on increasing load before modifying the map.


 What I did today was export the 70mm file throttle/air flow values and import them into the stock TB file. Re flashed it and it idles smooth. However after about 30 second it will jump a little bit then correct for 10-15sec and reapeats.. 

I'm a lot happier with it as is now. But it would be nice to get it idling like stock.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

OT but I just checked my fuel trims and I'm at -5% and +24.75 w/ 70mm on their 630/70mm file. I'm hoping to do some more correcting tomorrow, but I'm getting worse and worse.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

screwball said:


> OT but I just checked my fuel trims and I'm at -5% and +24.75 w/ 70mm on their 630/70mm file. I'm hoping to do some more correcting tomorrow, but I'm getting worse and worse.


 Your long term trims are maxed out bro! I'd if your running the injectors made for your file I'd drop battery comp by 5% and add 20% to main fuel. Err actually you might have a dead o2 check block 31 to see if your getting a reading at WOT. Both columns should be close to the same.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

16plus4v said:


> What I did today was export the 70mm file throttle/air flow values and import them into the stock TB file. Re flashed it and it idles smooth. However after about 30 second it will jump a little bit then correct for 10-15sec and reapeats..
> 
> I'm a lot happier with it as is now. But it would be nice to get it idling like stock.


 Was that on a warmed up car or cold car. Might need to drive it and see were you trim and then make adjustments. If cars cold you prolly just need a lil warm up map tweaking. Say is that 70mm throttle map emailable? I'd love to have it. I can't get eurodyne support to gimme a 70mm file


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I bumped up my main fuel, but I had to get rolling to work so I didn't mess w/ the injector settings. I did have faults on all my injectors. I'll post the codes and relog once I head home.


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

velocity196 said:


> Was that on a warmed up car or cold car. Might need to drive it and see were you trim and then make adjustments. If cars cold you prolly just need a lil warm up map tweaking. Say is that 70mm throttle map emailable? I'd love to have it. I can't get eurodyne support to gimme a 70mm file


 
This was on a warmed up run. I actually fixed the idle today, I played around with the idle vs air and injector constant and it's near perfect. I'm pretty sure that each map is emailable yes. 

Are you on a 1k file? W/ 70mm ?


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## 3071R-GLI (Aug 26, 2006)

16plus4v said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> It's been a while but I finally pulled the car out of the garage.


Glad you are still around man, and that you seem to be almost done with your beast! It should run some pretty sick times :thumbup:


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

3071R-GLI said:


> Glad you are still around man, and that you seem to be almost done with your beast! It should run some pretty sick times :thumbup:


 Ya man I cant wait ! The car has been finished for quite some time.. I just had put it on the "not the first priority" list for a bit due to my 80hr work weeks etc. But now its good to go and ready to be ass raped.


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

I can't wait to Finnish mine so that I can show you how slow you really are


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

VRT said:


> I can't wait to Finnish mine so that I can show you how slow you really are


 Eh caralho


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## DISTURBO (Apr 15, 2003)

Dont make me drive my car down and show you how my idle is with a 75mm TB


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

DISTURBO said:


> Dont make me drive my car down and show you how my idle is with a 75mm TB


 Where about in Calgary are you? I might need to pick your brain when I get my BT setup


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

DISTURBO said:


> Dont make me drive my car down and show you how my idle is with a 75mm TB


 Stop picking on meeee  

lol, my idle is mint now.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I'm up to 118% of main fuel and 102% in secondary fuel which is getting me much more normal results in block 32. I was down to -2.5/11.5, but I bumped stuff up further and need to let it readapt before I can see what it'll do to my FTs.

Bumping up my idle torque to 3 or 4 did wonders to my idle.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

How did you adjust idle torque, is there an option in the quick settings menu?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Yeap, under the diagnostics header in Flash which works the same as lemmiwinks. It pops up with read settings where the 2step stuff is set.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

screwball said:


> I'm up to 118% of main fuel and 102% in secondary fuel which is getting me much more normal results in block 32. I was down to -2.5/11.5, but I bumped stuff up further and need to let it readapt before I can see what it'll do to my FTs.
> 
> Bumping up my idle torque to 3 or 4 did wonders to my idle.


Sounds like ur injector constant is to low. Or did you add a big throttle body on a stock throttle tune?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Personally I think it's the IC and some other minor tweaks I need to do which is compounding all my problems into bigger problems. I'm running a 630/70mm file that Arnold sent me last year. I know it's built for a stock head and intake manifold though so I'm definitely flowing more than that.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Quick question, to run mafless on the 630cc file, do I need to change anything or just unplug the maf?

Also is 7500rpm a safe rev limit for a non built head? I have looked through the base file in Maestro but didn't see a place to chose no maf, chris just said I could run that file mafless as well.

edit -- meh I am dumb, I just googled and I got an answer of just unplug and remove the maf.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

screwball said:


> Personally I think it's the IC and some other minor tweaks I need to do which is compounding all my problems into bigger problems. I'm running a 630/70mm file that Arnold sent me last year. I know it's built for a stock head and intake manifold though so I'm definitely flowing more than that.


Yeah its a toss up really. I'm on a stock everything 870 tune with 830's. I've had to increase my IC to like .60 and drol BVC to like .6 to .2 or sone crazy amount PLUS (LOL) increase main fuel approx 15%. Crazy chit! Runs great tho LOL. I got a couple 70mm throttle maps that I've tried with not so good results. Unfortureatly it's not a simple import 2 maps and call it a day event. Still tho if your rockin the injectors made for your tune then I'd molest that IC until trims are like within 5% and call it a day.



sabbySC said:


> Quick question, to run mafless on the 630cc file, do I need to change anything or just unplug the maf?
> 
> Also is 7500rpm a safe rev limit for a non built head? I have looked through the base file in Maestro but didn't see a place to chose no maf, chris just said I could run that file mafless as well.
> 
> edit -- I see where flow meter is listed in Maestro but I see no option for mafless? Read through the how to and it just says you will have to chose wether or not to use it, but not how to actually make that choice. Also this is an AWP 2003 gti.


I pretty sure you just unplug it :thumbup:


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

velocity196 said:


> I pretty sure you just unplug it :thumbup:


I found the answer online, but as always thanks! All help is always appreciated.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Running without the MAF now, runs alot better. Did a TBA aswell.

Now I am trying to log some data but it keeps shutting down with a "to many errors" fault. Does anyone know what this is about? I'm running a MBC, with a 630cc base file. Boost is low 13psi until I can log some data and make sure I'm safe to increase. Just can't get it to log for very long because of this error.

Seb


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

sabbySC said:


> Running without the MAF now, runs alot better. Did a TBA aswell.
> 
> Now I am trying to log some data but it keeps shutting down with a "to many errors" fault. Does anyone know what this is about? I'm running a MBC, with a 630cc base file. Boost is low 13psi until I can log some data and make sure I'm safe to increase. Just can't get it to log for very long because of this error.
> 
> Seb


I get the same thing actually so I do it the old fashion way. Measuring blocks 31 (fuel requested and actual), 20 (knock, 0 is good  )and 3 (rpm, maf, throttle position, timing actual).


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

velocity196 said:


> I get the same thing actually so I do it the old fashion way. Measuring blocks 31 (fuel requested and actual), 20 (knock, 0 is good  )and 3 (rpm, maf, throttle position, timing actual).


Thanks,

Chris got back to me and said try at a slower data rate first. I think I messed up though and flashed with the base file first and not the licensing file, I'll here back soon enough and see how much of a boo-boo that turns out to be.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Here's a screen shot of my bad idle. It starts perfect, goes saw tooth for a bit than it just starts hunting up and down.

I haven't put much time into it yet though as I want to verify that I have no leaks pre-O2 that might be causing this. Since I am now running mafless.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I see that alot of you are correcting the main fuel scaling through the quicksettings. Why arn't you adjusting injector constant to compensate for it? Is it better to stick with the calculated constant and adjust through the quick settings? Clue me in... Because my idle is still piss pour.


Good screen shot sabbySC alot of people have the same issues with the deka siemen injectors. I've been working on my own what you may want to try is adjusting your battery compensation values according with the first value in measuring block 32. Then try increasing idle torque and timing in your lower rpms. 

I havn't tryed the idle yet but my idle is alot better then were I had it on the base file.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> I see that alot of you are correcting the main fuel scaling through the quicksettings. Why arn't you adjusting injector constant to compensate for it? Is it better to stick with the calculated constant and adjust through the quick settings? Clue me in... Because my idle is still piss pour.
> 
> 
> Good screen shot sabbySC alot of people have the same issues with the deka siemen injectors. I've been working on my own what you may want to try is adjusting your battery compensation values according with the first value in measuring block 32. Then try increasing idle torque and timing in your lower rpms.
> ...


Will do, I'm going to take some time in the morning to verify that everything is tight and I have no exhaust leaks, than I'll start to play a with some settings. Been reading like mad on eurodyne's forum to get an idea of where to start.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

sabbySC said:


> Here's a screen shot of my bad idle. It starts perfect, goes saw tooth for a bit than it just starts hunting up and down.
> 
> I haven't put much time into it yet though as I want to verify that I have no leaks pre-O2 that might be causing this. Since I am now running mafless.


This is pretty normal fir a car finding it's sweet spot . Let it trim fir a couple days and then go in an add or take away some injector constant and battery voltage compensation.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

velocity196 said:


> This is pretty normal fir a car finding it's sweet spot . Let it trim fir a couple days and then go in an add or take away some injector constant and battery voltage compensation.


Cool, thanks for the info :snowcool:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

630cc guys: http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=861

http://siemensdeka.com/specsheets/FI114961cs.jpg

I had a 14hr workday so I'm pretty foggy, but this is what I came up for with updated BCVs on 630s. I dropped my IC down to .44844 based on the math/info provided by MmmmmBoost on that other forum.

Here's what I have for BCV:
7.955v = 1.590
9.997v = 1.019
11.968v = .701
14.010v = .453
15.981v = .368

***Added
Here's what Maestro spits out for 630s as the default:
7.955v = 1.093
9.997v = .733
11.968v = .517
14.010v = ..437
15.981v = .392


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

so you got a good idle with these settings on your setup?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I've been up for too damn long working so I want to recheck my math before I flash the car. I'd planned to do it be fore heading in to work in a few hours.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Whats the math on this? Is there a link to something I can read or do you have an easy explanation? I can flash this evening and see if it idles any better.

Is your math correct? From what I have read it has been suggested to take away from the values, but is your math adding to the values?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

**Edited the other thread.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Let us know how your new values work out :beer:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I'll be giving it a shot tonight.

....Welp I tryed it and going from the custom file I was working off of the base, it smoothed the bounce a bit. Also instead of going from +20 to -20 o2correction at idle it is now at -2 to -25% o2 correction.


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

Having some issues with the timing pull.. I know it's not detonation, it's due to the JE pistons. The files run very low timing as is, plus im always using 94 w/meth. That being said im wondering if the only way around it is to lower the knock detection via maestro ?


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

My O2 correction are +4 -3 right now, I have the lumpy idle still. After a whilel of driving my idle settles to be pretty close to perfect, even stock my idle was never balls perfect. I always had a weird random stutter. No boost/vac leaks, no exhaust leaks.


----------



## OBIWANKANNA974 (Feb 24, 2011)

Is there an anti lag option with maestro?


----------



## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

2step and No lift shift are both available.


----------



## OBIWANKANNA974 (Feb 24, 2011)

what's the 2nd step?


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Launch control..... my idle after implementing the new values for bvc and constant are within 5% correction. I also attempted to increase the idle torque by 3 idle is near perfect now.


----------



## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Good to hear man! :thumbup:


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

The only issue I'm having now is with idle when my blower motor is turned up high to med. I'm going to leave it on and see if the ecu works it out. If not I'll try bumping up the idle torque a bit more and raise ignition timing. Regardless I'm releaved that this idle thing has been sorted out. Man the base software was way off on constant and BCV calibrations.:screwy:


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> The only issue I'm having now is with idle when my blower motor is turned up high to med. I'm going to leave it on and see if the ecu works it out. If not I'll try bumping up the idle torque a bit more and raise ignition timing. Regardless I'm releaved that this idle thing has been sorted out. Man the base software was way off on constant and BCV calibrations.:screwy:


My corrections are reasonable on the base file from +4 to -5 max range and pretty consistent. Today I upped the torque +4 and the idle seems very stable. Will see how it holds up in time.


----------



## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

Has any one noticed that with the latest version of eurodyne flash the figures in block 32 are now carried out 4 decimal places??? I really find this strange.


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Has anyone else had problems logging data? I get a too many errors shutting down every time I try to log. The strange thing is, if I sit and idle it will log data, as soon as I move the car I get the error and logging stops. So basically logging is useless. I've been talking with Chris regarding this and he says he can't reproduce it, I've tried different communication speeds to no avail. Hopefully Chris will get back to me monday with some more ideas.

So has anyone else ran into this issue, and what was your work around? For the record my motor is AWP, all emissions deleted and resistored, beyond that the rest is untouched electrically. There is a dealer installed MFD head unit in the car, I doubt that would be the problem but who knows.

I'm open to any ideas and trying anything to get logging working.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

sabbySC said:


> Has anyone else had problems logging data? I get a too many errors shutting down every time I try to log. The strange thing is, if I sit and idle it will log data, as soon as I move the car I get the error and logging stops. So basically logging is useless. I've been talking with Chris regarding this and he says he can't reproduce it, I've tried different communication speeds to no avail. Hopefully Chris will get back to me monday with some more ideas.
> 
> So has anyone else ran into this issue, and what was your work around? For the record my motor is AWP, all emissions deleted and resistored, beyond that the rest is untouched electrically. There is a dealer installed MFD head unit in the car, I doubt that would be the problem but who knows.
> 
> I'm open to any ideas and trying anything to get logging working.



I am awp also and dont have this issue, its probably computer related.


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Dub-Nub said:


> I am awp also and dont have this issue, its probably computer related.


By computer do you mean ECU or laptop?


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

sabbySC said:


> By computer do you mean ECU or laptop?


laptop

Re-install everything


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Dub-Nub said:


> I am awp also and dont have this issue, its probably computer related.


I've had this problem as well and never found a solution. I know others reported it as well. Mine is not as bad as yours I can still log somewhat. I've just gotten use to do very short logs and saving them after every pull. Sometimes it works great other times it will give me the "to many errors message after 2 mins". I highly doubt its my laptop, its definetly software or cable related. One of these days I may try to reinstall it but vag-com, ETKA, and maestro are the only things on my laptop.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I've had this problem as well and never found a solution. I know others reported it as well. Mine is not as bad as yours I can still log somewhat. I've just gotten use to do very short logs and saving them after every pull. Sometimes it works great other times it will give me the "to many errors message after 2 mins". I highly doubt its my laptop, its definetly software or cable related. One of these days I may try to reinstall it but vag-com, ETKA, and maestro are the only things on my laptop.


2003 AWP 1.8T
WIndows XP laptop Service Pack 2

Have run logs over an hour without issues


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

Who here is on the 1000cc file with a large turbo ?


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Dub-Nub said:


> 2003 AWP 1.8T
> WIndows XP laptop Service Pack 2
> 
> Have run logs over an hour without issues


Did you ever send your cable back to tapp for the firmware update?


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Did you ever send your cable back to tapp for the firmware update?


Yes I did the first time.


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Dub-Nub said:


> laptop
> 
> Re-install everything


I formatted the HD and reinstalled everything, it is working just great now. SO it was the laptop and not the software.


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Anyone having a hard time connecting after the new flash update? I can't do anything all the sudden


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

What message are you getting? I had lots of problems but ultimately it came down to my laptop.


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

sabbySC said:


> What message are you getting? I had lots of problems but ultimately it came down to my laptop.


Just wont connect. Keeps telling me to re connect the cable and turn the key on. Lappy is brand new. It's a Dell xps 15 with win7. Damn it wasn't a problem before. Maybe I'll try and find the old version and reinstall that one.


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Did you try your cable diagnostic? Might be a bad usb cable, try out a new one, they are usb printer cables, you probably have one at home if you have a printer.


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

sabbySC said:


> Did you try your cable diagnostic? Might be a bad usb cable, try out a new one, they are usb printer cables, you probably have one at home if you have a printer.


Not sure what you mean cable diagnostic but I looked for the test cable feature and it's gone I think on the new version. I think I have another cable I can try tomorrow.


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

velocity196 said:


> Not sure what you mean cable diagnostic but I looked for the test cable feature and it's gone I think on the new version. I think I have another cable I can try tomorrow.


Have you re-installed the flash program? I still have test cable under my menus. I think you're running into something like I had, the programs not installed properly or there is a conflict on your computer.


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

sabbySC said:


> Have you re-installed the flash program? I still have test cable under my menus. I think you're running into something like I had, the programs not installed properly or there is a conflict on your computer.


Oh weird! I actually have not had the test cable feature the last couple updates.


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Just tried it and now it's working. That's was weird LOL. Still no test cable feature tho :/


----------



## turboistheanswertocancer (Feb 25, 2011)

Anyone have or had problems with the rev limiter not working? I have it set at 7500 (for now) and I consistently pull to 7800+ and have to let off the gas. The car absolutely rips at 30psi, so it'd be nice to have a limiter, esp in first and second (quattro ftw, fwd would be through 4th haha).


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

turboistheanswertocancer said:


> Anyone have or had problems with the rev limiter not working? I have it set at 7500 (for now) and I consistently pull to 7800+ and have to let off the gas. The car absolutely rips at 30psi, so it'd be nice to have a limiter, esp in first and second (quattro ftw, fwd would be through 4th haha).


Do u have springs and valves upgraded in the head?


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

turboistheanswertocancer said:


> Anyone have or had problems with the rev limiter not working? I have it set at 7500 (for now) and I consistently pull to 7800+ and have to let off the gas. The car absolutely rips at 30psi, so it'd be nice to have a limiter, esp in first and second (quattro ftw, fwd would be through 4th haha).


I thought i had a problem, but it seems like you have to set the limiter every time you open up the file.


----------



## turboistheanswertocancer (Feb 25, 2011)

velocity196 said:


> Do u have springs and valves upgraded in the head?


Yes the customer has a fully built head. Why do you ask?



Dub-Nub said:


> I thought i had a problem, but it seems like you have to set the limiter every time you open up the file.


Really? Hmmm... Well the customer has the car now, hitting the dyno on Wednesday so I'll work on it then and report back...


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

turboistheanswertocancer said:


> Yes the customer has a fully built head. Why do you ask?
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Hmmm... Well the customer has the car now, hitting the dyno on Wednesday so I'll work on it then and report back...


Open the file, change the rev limiter and re-save then re-flash with the new file, then report back.


----------



## julex (Jan 24, 2009)

*moving maestro between cars*

Anybody actually bought/sold/moved maestro + ECU and got it running in another car (same model naturally)? Any gotchas there?

Thanks.


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

julex said:


> Anybody actually bought/sold/moved maestro + ECU and got it running in another car (same model naturally)? Any gotchas there?
> 
> Thanks.


Hows it registered, VIN stored in 95040?


----------



## julex (Jan 24, 2009)

RaraK69 said:


> Hows it registered, VIN stored in 95040?


Not sure what you mean by that. I tried to experimentally flash the Maestro to my Maestro ECU outside of car and got the "not licensed" message. The VIN number entry displayed during initial handshake between software/cable/ecu showed "unknown" so I assume it needs a VIN number from cluster....

Now that just means that once you tie Maestro to your car you're SOL and you cannot move the maestro+physical ECU to another car without cluster or at least hacking the other cluster and changing VIN on it... 

I need a clear answer on this from Chris.


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

julex said:


> Not sure what you mean by that. I tried to experimentally flash the Maestro to my Maestro ECU outside of car and got the "not licensed" message. The VIN number entry displayed during initial handshake between software/cable/ecu showed "unknown" so I assume it needs a VIN number from cluster....
> 
> Now that just means that once you tie Maestro to your car you're SOL and you cannot move the maestro+physical ECU to another car without cluster or at least hacking the other cluster and changing VIN on it...
> 
> I need a clear answer on this from Chris.


Not tru. It can be moved. You just won't get support from eurodyne. It'll still flash and function just no file swapping from eurodyne.


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

well that defeats the purpose of me ever getting maestro as i am a swapped car and i can easily swap to another chassis...gay.


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm sure Eurodyne will support you if you make it clear what you are doing, has anyone ever asked?


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I've been having issues with cold start up. Which map should I be looking to correct. I've been contemplating adjusting the whole after startup enrichment curve down 20% because that is what 02 correction I get at idle during warmup. Car will bog down sometimes in low rpm until the car is at operating temp.

What do you guys think? I've already took the quick settings down to 50% for the warmup fuel adjustment still is at -12% to -15% correction.


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

Thats odd man.. I've never heard of anyone having cold start issues with me7 ecu's. Have you logged to see if your IAT or CTS is good? Maf-less ?

There is the " warmup fuel ", " after start enrichment " and the " cranking fuel correction factor " Which will determine your cold start and warm up fueling.

Can you get a screen shot of all three windows ? I'll take a look at some of mine and see where you can make some changes ..


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

lol, no cold start problems? tell me that's sarcasm, hahaha


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

kk.. since the revo days :laugh:

My car started all winter long. Canadian -30*C temps and all


----------



## turboistheanswertocancer (Feb 25, 2011)

sabbySC said:


> I'm sure Eurodyne will support you if you make it clear what you are doing, has anyone ever asked?


I email Chris all the time, but when the file he sent me (to fix the rev limiter) didn't work I decided to ask the masses before bothering him again. The dyno time got rescheduled to Monday so I'll try the fix suggested in this thread and hopefully it works. If it does, I saved Chris some time and that makes me happy since he is a very very busy guy.


----------



## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

question for you guys..

i'm building my motor now and i'm going to be running maestro 7 for the software, what stuff should i know before i start it up and start driving it? will it run ok on the base file for the 870's? it should be done in a week or 2 so i'm pretty excited. 

my setup:
2.1L stroker
JE pistons
IE Rods
PTE 5857 dbb
Tubular exhaust mani
870cc injectors
tial wastegate and blow off valve
coated bearings
044 and AN fuel lines
Fluidampr 
southbend stage 3 clutch and billet fw
AC delete and shaved bay
:beer:


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

dubbin_boho said:


> question for you guys..
> 
> i'm building my motor now and i'm going to be running maestro 7 for the software, what stuff should i know before i start it up and start driving it? will it run ok on the base file for the 870's? it should be done in a week or 2 so i'm pretty excited.
> 
> ...


You should be good to go. Just remember if it pops and runs ruff your running lean if it smells badly spits and bogs down ur running rich thru warm up. After it's warm check o2 correction in block 1 window 3. If it's reading close to zero ur golden for low load and ready to log medium and high load. I prefer the ol skool approach and log measuring blocks 31 (fuel requested & actual), 20 (knock control, 0 is best), 3 (ignition timing actual, rpm reference). Post the log here or make a new thread and peeps here can help u out :thumbup:


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

Who's running ID1000's with the 1k file ? Just curious what differentiates between the settings in order to drop them in and go. A buddy wants to use them with his setup. THX


----------



## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

velocity196 said:


> You should be good to go. Just remember if it pops and runs ruff your running lean if it smells badly spits and bogs down ur running rich thru warm up. After it's warm check o2 correction in block 1 window 3. If it's reading close to zero ur golden for low load and ready to log medium and high load. I prefer the ol skool approach and log measuring blocks 31 (fuel requested & actual), 20 (knock control, 0 is best), 3 (ignition timing actual, rpm reference). Post the log here or make a new thread and peeps here can help u out :thumbup:


cool, sounds good thanks  i got an aem wideband so i can monitor afr's too :thumbup:


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## julex (Jan 24, 2009)

*MAestro is licensed ONLY to specific car!*



I asked Eurodyne about moving the ECU+Interface to a different car and was told that I hold the license only to use it on the car I activated it on.

You won't be able to alter tune is you move the ECU to different car as apparently it is pulling VIN# from cluster each time it boots and cable checks it to ensure it matches the license in file/cable...

The bottom line is once you activate maestro that's it. You can't move to different car (with ECU), you can't sell it, nada zilch unless you hack the cluster and re-VIN it to a number matching license.

Unfortunately this is very bad news to me and I am very dissappointed.


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

julex said:


> I asked Eurodyne about moving the ECU+Interface to a different car and was told that I hold the license only to use it on the car I activated it on.
> 
> You won't be able to alter tune is you move the ECU to different car as apparently it is pulling VIN# from cluster each time it boots and cable checks it to ensure it matches the license in file/cable...
> 
> ...


That sucks, but can you move the cluster and ECU together?


----------



## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

julex said:


> I asked Eurodyne about moving the ECU+Interface to a different car and was told that I hold the license only to use it on the car I activated it on.
> 
> You won't be able to alter tune is you move the ECU to different car as apparently it is pulling VIN# from cluster each time it boots and cable checks it to ensure it matches the license in file/cable...
> 
> ...


Interesting... i wonder what else it talks to...

Did you get the Immo moved from another car? or was the ECU immo defeated?


----------



## julex (Jan 24, 2009)

AmIdYfReAk said:


> Interesting... i wonder what else it talks to...
> 
> Did you get the Immo moved from another car? or was the ECU immo defeated?


This is another disappointment on my part. I bought Maestro for my Allroad (2.7t APB). Allroads have immo3 installed but apparently what Chris told me to flash was their S4 (same engine) tune which naturally disabled immo... This was not disclosed to me at all.

Anyway, I am getting vag-tacho cable soon and will test the limits of their shrewdness... too bad I learned this bit only now as they definitely got some sales from my avid support for this product on other forums.

I think I will send him an email spelling out what I think about all of this. There are laws against this kind of things. I bought a license to certain software and if want to move it to different hardware, I should be allowed to.


----------



## CD155MX (Dec 18, 2007)

I wonder what this does to people who swapped 1.8T into other platforms like Mk1's,2's,3's,Corrados, etc........ Especially if they aren't using ECU's and Clusters from the same donor car. Or what if they splice wires into the existing cluster...


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

so the VIN is being written to the 95040 or in the flash itself, anyone have a dump from their car they will share?

Or someone can verify this. Best bet is to read the chip out with kwp 

Or just not spend 900 and learn to tune yourself. Your almost there with this software, and the definitions are available publicly for all US based 1.8t variations


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

16plus4v said:


> Who's running ID1000's with the 1k file ? Just curious what differentiates between the settings in order to drop them in and go. A buddy wants to use them with his setup. THX


Is it simply adjust injector constant and BVC ?


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

well its been awhile since i last updated flash. just did it and now everytime I go to flash a file to my car it say that it is not liceced for my vehicle. I tried uninstalling and re installing flash. anyone else have this problem??


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

I have a corrdao 1.8t no problems
I have mix and match parts


----------



## CD155MX (Dec 18, 2007)

VRT said:


> I have a corrdao 1.8t no problems
> I have mix and match parts


Cool Thanks.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

.


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

weenerdog3443 said:


> well its been awhile since i last updated flash. just did it and now everytime I go to flash a file to my car it say that it is not liceced for my vehicle. I tried uninstalling and re installing flash. anyone else have this problem??


i have had issues w/ this exact problem since the first time i installed maestro 7 on to my ECU. so far i haven't found a long term fix for the issue and gave up on trying to fix it. for now my car runs okay, ill get back with eurodyne in June when i have a lot of time to spend getting this problem resolved and can afford for my car to be apart.


----------



## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

carsluTT said:


> i have had issues w/ this exact problem since the first time i installed maestro 7 on to my ECU. so far i haven't found a long term fix for the issue and gave up on trying to fix it. for now my car runs okay, ill get back with eurodyne in June when i have a lot of time to spend getting this problem resolved and can afford for my car to be apart.


Give Chris an email, he should be able to give you some support. I initially had problems with Maestro when I first got it and he worked with me (eventually) to get it resolved. If you need his email, shoot me a pm and ill send it to ya.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

Zneith said:


> Give Chris an email, he should be able to give you some support. I initially had problems with Maestro when I first got it and he worked with me (eventually) to get it resolved. If you need his email, shoot me a pm and ill send it to ya.


yup they sent me a new license n key a lil bit ago and working again.


----------



## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

weenerdog3443 said:


> yup they sent me a new license n key a lil bit ago and working again.


:thumbup:


----------



## DUBBED-OUT (Mar 21, 2008)

For some reason I keep getting the Error message "fail to start communication... check connections and make sure key is on.":banghead:

I haven't used this thing in about nine months, So I did update every thing. 

If any of guy's you had this problem before and have any tip's on how to troubleshoot.
The help would be greatly aspirated, I need to perform a TB adaptation like yesterday!



-Judd


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Ok so I made a few adjustments to my bvc.. now my warm-up to operating temp I will be over fueling .85-.95 until operating temp. My o2 correction will pull 15-21% once this starts happening it will knock until operating temp. I've tryed setting warm-up fueling down to 10% and it simply would not be enough but it helped bring o2 correction to -12%. I know it gets worse when its colder out so I tryed adjusting the warm-up map and scaling the cell down about 10% in which it happened but that didn't seem to help. 

As for the ltft is concerned its on point. I'm lost at this point.


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Ok so I made a few adjustments to my bvc.. now my warm-up to operating temp I will be over fueling .85-.95 until operating temp. My o2 correction will pull 15-21% once this starts happening it will knock until operating temp. I've tryed setting warm-up fueling down to 10% and it simply would not be enough but it helped bring o2 correction to -12%. I know it gets worse when its colder out so I tryed adjusting the warm-up map and scaling the cell down about 10% in which it happened but that didn't seem to help.
> 
> As for the ltft is concerned its on point. I'm lost at this point.


What are your block 32 values?

What is your setup exactly? PM your email address and I can send you some values from my tune to try out. You can just import them and reflash and see if it makes any difference.


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

Who here is running ID1000's ?


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I have a stock throttle body and intake manifold. I'm only having issues with starting and warmup.... Once car reaches operating temp the car is fine. This problem with overfueling gets worse when its colder out.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

im running a lil rich.. how would I got about turning it down


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

16plus4v said:


> Who here is running ID1000's ?


I will next month. How is she running?


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

weenerdog3443 said:


> im running a lil rich.. how would I got about turning it down


Rich where? At idle, under load? Also how rich in this condition.


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

weenerdog3443 said:


> im running a lil rich.. how would I got about turning it down


Go into flash and read ur settings. That opens the unisetting like program. Drop your warm up fuel down 15% and try that out for a couple days.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

sabbySC said:


> Rich where? At idle, under load? Also how rich in this condition.





velocity196 said:


> Go into flash and read ur settings. That opens the unisetting like program. Drop your warm up fuel down 15% and try that out for a couple days.


idle and running seems to be a tad rich... idle more than WOT.

I willl give it a try


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

weenerdog3443 said:


> idle and running seems to be a tad rich... idle more than WOT.
> 
> I willl give it a try


If idle is good when warm than it's your warm up map. If it's rich both at warm up and at idle you may need at battery voltage compensation adjustment.


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

velocity196 said:


> If idle is good when warm than it's your warm up map. If it's rich both at warm up and at idle you may need at battery voltage compensation adjustment.


Up it up?


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

weenerdog3443 said:


> Up it up?


Sorry I don't understand. 

I should have told you this first off. Open measuring blocks on a cold motor. Block 1 is open, start the car and watch your real time trims all the way thru warmup. It will read 0 until the o2 is warm enough to sone signal. During warmup if it's bouncing around like say -24 then back to 0 or even + then back to -20ish then your warmup map needs adjusting. Same thing applies to fully warm motor except once warm and at idle if it's searching a lot then your battery voltage compensation needs adjusting. Now on a warm motor you can see in block 32 the first window number will indicate the need for a BVC adjustment, the second window indicates an injector constant adjustment.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Any input from people running cams on how they're tune is working out?

Any more news on options to sell the Maestro suite?


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Is anyone having rich shifts?

Anytime i shift it goes rich like 11s for a couple of seconds then goes lean as it should and then can go rich for a few more seconds then settles back


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I know I am.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

screwball said:


> I know I am.


Does your go rich for a sec, then --- lean then back to rich for several seconds after shifts?


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Dub-Nub said:


> Is anyone having rich shifts?
> 
> Anytime i shift it goes rich like 11s for a couple of seconds then goes lean as it should and then can go rich for a few more seconds then settles back


Yeah they do that for cooling I've heard...STUPID!!!


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

In a 4th gear pull I go to 10:1 at WOT from 4200 rpms all the way up to 6600 rpms where it goes up to 12:2 and the car is off like it was being sprayed up top. I've tried three different and tweaked 630/70mm files and it's the same results each time.


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

You need to pull fuel in AlphaN


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Actually I need to smash this ECU w/ a hammer.


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

screwball said:


> Actually I need to smash this ECU w/ a hammer.


That wont solve your problem lol..

Which tune ? Are you running maf-less ?


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

velocity196 said:


> Sorry I don't understand.
> 
> I should have told you this first off. Open measuring blocks on a cold motor. Block 1 is open, start the car and watch your real time trims all the way thru warmup. It will read 0 until the o2 is warm enough to sone signal. During warmup if it's bouncing around like say -24 then back to 0 or even + then back to -20ish then your warmup map needs adjusting. Same thing applies to fully warm motor except once warm and at idle if it's searching a lot then your battery voltage compensation needs adjusting. Now on a warm motor you can see in block 32 the first window number will indicate the need for a BVC adjustment, the second window indicates an injector constant adjustment.




Now I want to know how to apply the changes to the map. Say your getting a steady 14-18% pull from warmup fueling. I've actually taken 10% away from the cell it was using during warmup and the car didn't respond well to it. How should I go about applying what I'm seeing as far as o2 correction values to those cells?


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Budsdubbin said:


> Now I want to know how to apply the changes to the map. Say your getting a steady 14-18% pull from warmup fueling. I've actually taken 10% away from the cell it was using during warmup and the car didn't respond well to it. How should I go about applying what I'm seeing as far as o2 correction values to those cells?


With that map, I'd make a global change to the entire map. Lets take the smallest valve and cut a lil off to make to an even 10%. Now click the top left corner of the warm up map and drag to the bottom right corner to high light the entire map. Right click the high lighted area and click math function or what ever it says. In there type 10 then click the minus percent button. This might take a few trys to get it right. If your not comfortable playing with the maps, warm up fuel is in the setting menu and simply taking out 10% in the settings menu is a global change to the map as well. Only difference is the settings menu changes are erased each time you flash the ecu were as the main file will be changed on the first instructions.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

16plus4v said:


> You need to pull fuel in AlphaN


Alpha n isn't a map to just start making changes to. It's the basic map that the ecu uses to help it predict incoming air flow at X% throttle and load. The only reason I asked you for your maps is cuz my file is a stock ecu file and I'm running a 70mm throttle. Also since throttle vs air flow is the inverse of alpha n, if you choose to adjust alpha n be sure to adjust throttle vs air flow. Seeing as I'm not watching the car from cold start to fully warm and WOT I can only speculate but I'd guess your fuel on increasing load is to fat. Just my 2 cents :beer:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

velocity196 said:


> With that map, I'd make a global change to the entire map. Lets take the smallest valve and cut a lil off to make to an even 10%. Now click the top left corner of the warm up map and drag to the bottom right corner to high light the entire map. Right click the high lighted area and click math function or what ever it says. In there type 10 then click the minus percent button. This might take a few trys to get it right. If your not comfortable playing with the maps, warm up fuel is in the setting menu and simply taking out 10% in the settings menu is a global change to the map as well. Only difference is the settings menu changes are erased each time you flash the ecu were as the main file will be changed on the first instructions.


Well that clears it up for me I though it was similar to the main fuel scaling map as far as making changes thanks.


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

velocity196 said:


> Alpha n isn't a map to just start making changes to. It's the basic map that the ecu uses to help it predict incoming air flow at X% throttle and load. The only reason I asked you for your maps is cuz my file is a stock ecu file and I'm running a 70mm throttle. Also since throttle vs air flow is the inverse of alpha n, if you choose to adjust alpha n be sure to adjust throttle vs air flow. Seeing as I'm not watching the car from cold start to fully warm and WOT I can only speculate but I'd guess your fuel on increasing load is to fat. Just my 2 cents :beer:


Are you running a maf ? Have you used the trac histogram feature ?


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

16plus4v said:


> Are you running a maf ? Have you used the trac histogram feature ?


No sir, mafless here. I kinda wish I was running a maf so I could histogram my maps and see if that clears up my WOT after 23% throttle angle. At some point I'll be tweaking target filling and optimal engine torque to try and rid this problem. Unless my uni race file is done and I can rid myself from this maestro ecu. Seriously, WAY easier calling up Uni and saying ok I have a ported AEB, 3658's, rmr, a 70mm Benz throttle and a bored n stroked 1.8 to 2L's with ID1000...what do u got? "Well sir I have either a 830cc file to that exact setup or a 1000cc race file also to that exact setup". Easy squeezy!


----------



## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

hey guys i'm getting a lot of misfiring when i start driving my car on a cold startup.. do i need to raise the warmup fueling or something? i'm running 870's on a 2.1L


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

installed Bosch 1000cc injectors today and it runs pretty nice. two issues: 

I get no O2 correction at idle, except when AC is on and the load is higher. I tried to play with battery voltage comp and injector constant but that only made it worse. I use battery volt comp values supplied from Bosch... 

Sometimes when I shift at low rpm and low load it pops out the exhaust. Should I play with accel and decel fuel?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

velocity196 said:


> No sir, mafless here. I kinda wish I was running a maf so I could histogram my maps and see if that clears up my WOT after 23% throttle angle. At some point I'll be tweaking target filling and optimal engine torque to try and rid this problem. Unless my uni race file is done and I can rid myself from this maestro ecu. Seriously, WAY easier calling up Uni and saying ok I have a ported AEB, 3658's, rmr, a 70mm Benz throttle and a bored n stroked 1.8 to 2L's with ID1000...what do u got? "Well sir I have either a 830cc file to that exact setup or a 1000cc race file also to that exact setup". Easy squeezy!


 Yeah easier if you have faith in Unitronic. I'd put trust in myself before them anyday. Its not going to be easy your flowing way more CFM then originally called for with unique cams, throttle body and intake to boot. Your alpha N definetly needs modified. I personally know to many people who had there cars parked for almost a year and gave up on uni. Not to mention the whole Uni-Tune suite, basically a flat out marketing lie.


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## saps (Jul 10, 2009)

Maestro new user here, just got it up and running today. 

Ive been messing around with some things,read help multiple times but cannot figure out how to run mafless. Is it a totally seperate file i need to get from Chris, or is there a setting im over looking?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

saps said:


> Maestro new user here, just got it up and running today.
> 
> Ive been messing around with some things,read help multiple times but cannot figure out how to run mafless. Is it a totally seperate file i need to get from Chris, or is there a setting im over looking?


 Unplug your maf and you will be running mafless.


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## saps (Jul 10, 2009)

thanks for the reply man 

Im going to be running a 3071 and maestro too, how does your car run?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Runs quite well, it ran well with the 50trim that was originally installed, but the 3071 is a superior turbo when it comes to daily drive-ability. 

The one thing everyones pointed out that has made the most difference in the quality of my setup is to make 100% sure that you have no exhaust leaks pre-O2.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Has anyone raised the rev limiter yet? I raised my limiter from 7500 to 8500 and it still stops at 7500. I also raised the over rev fault to 8800 and the fuel cut from 1200 to 400. I thought the fuel cut ment 400rpms over the limiter (8500 now) but maybe I'm wrong here. Any advice would be appreciated :thumbup:


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

my limiter will not raise either


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

halchka99 said:


> my limiter will not raise either


Weak, ok, we just emailed support we'll post the results :beer:


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

this is what i found when i did read ecu(was saved to c:/eurodyne)
a 1024k ME7 file
a 2011 log in excel
a commlog
an infofile.mstro
a errorlog

is this what we send to eurodyne, ive sent it twice to them and they keep saying they havent recieved it.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I will set the values in the quick tune to 15 and after I type that in for some reason the program will jump back to 11. If I type in 18 it will jump to 22 I'm kind of lost at this point. I tryed writing the setting of 22 but No lift shift is still not engaging, my rpms will still rise after clutch is engaged. I know that my file is written to have this feature active, I check it over multiple times. Any ideas?

Just incase you think I didn't activate it in maestro the 2 step is working.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Has anyone retarded ignition timing to decrease turbo lag? If so how much and what results did you see?






Heres some motronic info I found while perusing vortex at work today. Thought someone might find it interesting.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...rive-by-wire-ME7-MKIV-1.8T-VR6-Motronic-works.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I'm in the process of working on my water/meth tune for my setup. What I did was take the pump gas map and copy/paste the lower engine load and rpm cells to my race gas map because obviously my pump won't start spraying until a set boost level. So far I've been increasing timing across the board until I get timing pull in a couple cells. Then lower those accordingly and keep bumping the timing in small incraments like .75 degrees or so. You I'll want to do something similar but realize your timing curve should fall towards peak boost then slowly raise again to redline. 

I would also do this on a mildly hot day so you can be safe with your timing advance. Hotter temps = higher change of detonation.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

i got my files, very quickly, though only a partial of how to download this info. ive read the beginning of this thread several times, however nothing to do with how to load your files into the ecu(flashing the ecu) if its there then i misssed it. any help would be appreciated


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Has anyone retarded ignition timing to decrease turbo lag? If so how much and what results did you see?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wait what?! Retarding timing lowers spool up.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Latest update fixes the rev limiter not rising :thumbup: I just hit 8450 from 7500. Scared the crap outta me LOL but sounded and felt amazing.


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## Stoked_On_Spool (Mar 19, 2009)

so i've read as much of this as i could, starting from the beginning and getting in a solid amount of pages, but i either skimmed or missed completely any info on ppl running this with the frankenturbo. Are there any ppl in here running this with the F4T kit like I have in my 337? If there are pages on this already you can just post the pg number and i'll read up on it, but i'm debating between this and a uni tune and am really interested in the maestro7's capabilities. thank you. 

-bret


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

velocity196 said:


> Wait what?! Retarding timing lowers spool up.


Yes, sorry I'm not versed with the exact technical details but something like more gasses passing through to the exhaust helps spool the turbo quicker. The tradeoff with less timing is off course less power off boost.

Wondering if its better to have less low end power better spool with low timing or higher timing with slower spool and more power down low which could possibly propel you through the RPM's faster.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Stoked_On_Spool said:


> so i've read as much of this as i could, starting from the beginning and getting in a solid amount of pages, but i either skimmed or missed completely any info on ppl running this with the frankenturbo. Are there any ppl in here running this with the F4T kit like I have in my 337? If there are pages on this already you can just post the pg number and i'll read up on it, but i'm debating between this and a uni tune and am really interested in the maestro7's capabilities. thank you.
> 
> -bret


Havent see anyone running it on the frankenturbo cept maybe Spartai. Don't see a FMIC in your sig, your defiently going to need one with that little turbo working so hard it will heatsoak that smic in 1-2 pulls.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Havent see anyone running it on the frankenturbo cept maybe Spartai. Don't see a FMIC in your sig, your defiently going to need one with that little turbo working so hard it will heatsoak that smic in 1-2 pulls.


And.... Spartiati's setup wasnt proof enough?


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Edit


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Edited for misinformation on my part


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> No...
> 
> Retarding the timing gives more low rpm power, which creates more exhaust pulses, which spools the turbo quicker.
> 
> The tradeoff is on the top end. Although boost makes it a moot point.


I see you edited your other post but I'm confused, are you mixing up cam timing w/ ignition? There is no tradeoff you can still advance timing on the top end.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I see you edited your other post but I'm confused, are you mixing up cam timing w/ ignition?


Yep.. Edited it out.. Not sure what I was thinking last night:screwy:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I wouldn't run this software on an FT setup, there's no telling how it'll run and getting it to run right could take months.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

screwball said:


> I wouldn't run this software on an FT setup, there's no telling how it'll run and getting it to run right could take months.


Really? The only people I've seen have issues are people like yourself who have modified throttle bodies or displacement requiring modification of the ALPHA-N map.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

It's so much more than just the Alpha N map that's screwy. I stand by what I wrote, if you have months to d!ck around w/ making changes to the maps or by flat out paying for a custom tune (which makes little sense when Uni has a working flash), I would just buy Uni's finished product and be done.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Let's swap flashes Toolfan, I'm running a modded 70mm file on my stock TB and it's working better than all the files I've run for the 60mm TBs. You're welcome to try it.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

velocity196 said:


> Latest update fixes the rev limiter not rising :thumbup: I just hit 8450 from 7500. Scared the crap outta me LOL but sounded and felt amazing.


That wasn't the only thing that was updated... Check out Injector wizard, now everyone can recalculate there IC, most of the base file ones are off... Gonna install mine with my new IC this weekend and start playing with things to get my idle better, should help alot...

I've been reading alot on the audizine forum "the great Maestro7" alot of good info in there, that mmmboost guy knows alot and talked to Chris and told him about what he has been finding and than Chris made the updated Injector wizard... From what I've read there if you get your IC correct than adjust BVC values your idle should be good as stock... Hopefully:laugh:


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## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

this is way too long to sort through. but if you can help, shoot me a PM so i dont clog the thread up. 
i have a car i am working on, 830cc mafless, 27psi, w/m, aeb with cams, etc 414whp. throws map sensor faults.- 
16622 - Manifold Pressure / Boost Sensor (G31): Signal too High 
P0238 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent 
16490 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96): Implausible Signal 
P0106 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent 
i am thinking its freaking out because its over the readable map limit. am i right? randomally this car with go pig rich at idle->part throttle. dip in the 9afr. resart car and ok. any insight?


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## aaronamerica (Jan 21, 2007)

*cold start up*

he anybody can tell my how to adjust a cold start correctly....my car takes at least 2 to 3 key turns every mourning and or i f Ihavent driven the car and the car is completly cooled


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

aaronamerica said:


> he anybody can tell my how to adjust a cold start correctly....my car takes at least 2 to 3 key turns every mourning and or i f Ihavent driven the car and the car is completly cooled


 i have this same issue, def post up if you find an fix.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

tuning maestro on any car with any setup would be a similar process ... 

On my frankenturbo i had it dialed in, in terms of timing and overall fueling in a handfull of dyno pulls ... I've done plenty of tinkering since but to say this isnt good to run on a frankenturbo is silly ... 
f4 with rods and maestro would be a ridiculous autocross beast!


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

^^^^ this.. my ko3s on a Maestro tweaked Tapp tune was ridonkulous for what it was. 

Definitely not a waste... Canned tunes are full of compromise, every engine is different, etc,etc..

Maestro :thumbup:


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

aaronamerica said:


> he anybody can tell my how to adjust a cold start correctly....my car takes at least 2 to 3 key turns every mourning and or i f Ihavent driven the car and the car is completly cooled


 Sound more like your startup fuel map is off. Unless is starts and dies after a few seconds.


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## ab3 (Jul 7, 2011)

This may (probably has) have been answered in one of the 40 previous pages, but do I need to buy a separate Maestro unit in order to flash the ECU, or can I use a friend's? 

Also, how well does this setup work for deleting check engine codes and forcing the ECU into readiness?


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

ab3 said:


> This may (probably has) have been answered in one of the 40 previous pages, but do I need to buy a separate Maestro unit in order to flash the ECU, or can I use a friend's?
> 
> Also, how well does this setup work for deleting check engine codes and forcing the ECU into readiness?


 Once you download the software from eurodyne.ca it can be used on any car eurodyne software or otherwise. The BT file you get from eurodyne however will only be able to be flashed to the original ecu. 

The software will read and delete any code that comes up exactly like vag com although unlike vag com I don't think you can change coding on the ecu. :beer:


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Anyone with a 70mm TB file and a stock intake and stock head can post up their tb vs airflow maps?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I'm still combing through the thread but I haven't found the answer for this yet.

Is there a way to add a new row or column to any of the maps?

I know you can change the axis values but can you in anyway enlarge the actual table?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

No the cell count is predetermined by the Bosch engineers wrote in the ECM file


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

x2, it'd be great to be able to do that though, looking into the TDI MAP discussion from a while back


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

hello all,

ive read up to page 22 and im sure my answer is on page 23 but im going to ask it anyways.

when it comes to adjusting settinegs( spoke with chris and he said my map was based on a gt3071 with stock intake manifold and stock tb and cams) i have alot done to my engine and i am trying to figure out how to get the most from it.
I dyno'd it and saw that i was running really rich between 2400rpms and 5800rpms losing power and replaced the upstream o2 as my logs showed it wasnt working properly.
on the dyno 22psi at 6500rpms saw 337whp and 284wtq turned up my boost to 24psi and got same results, seems awful low for what i have done. did the bad o2 cause a large power loss oor do i need to more tuning??? or do i need a whole different map??

heres what i have in the engine:
GT3071R w/ vband discharge
Eurodyne 630cc mafless file(with maestro7 suite)
mounting stud kit
Tial MVS WG 1 bar (38mm)
3inch downpipe w/ dump tube and clamp
SEM 80mm intake manifold
75mm TB from INA
custom (purple) cams from bobq
super tech valve springs form bobq
rods form integrated engineering
ACL rod bearings(w/tang)
Piston rings OEM set 
Supertech Inconel Exhaust Valve set
Supertech SS Nitrided Intakes Valve set 
custom port and polish
snow performance stage2 water/meth
walbro 255 inline fuel pump to go with apr intank fuel pump

any help would be appreciated.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

it would be hard to say without posting up some logs... also what kind of dyno. Some dynos can yielded higher (or lower) results.

I will say this though. I had some fun tuning my setup on a vr6 throttle body and had everything dialed in. Went to the dyno and actually had lost some power. While the car was still strapped to the dyno I swapped back to the stock one and all the power was back.

If you are not using the 70mm file I would start from there. the alpha-n map and I forget which other is modified.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

If your front o2 was bad, I'm sure the tune was crap. The base maps (without correction) are not dialed in *at all* for most people's setups- and then the thing is essentially running directly off the wb02... When they die I usually find it barely driveable.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)




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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

spartiati said:


> it would be hard to say without posting up some logs... also what kind of dyno. Some dynos can yielded higher (or lower) results.
> 
> I will say this though. I had some fun tuning my setup on a vr6 throttle body and had everything dialed in. Went to the dyno and actually had lost some power. While the car was still strapped to the dyno I swapped back to the stock one and all the power was back.
> 
> If you are not using the 70mm file I would start from there. the alpha-n map and I forget which other is modified.





[email protected] said:


> If your front o2 was bad, I'm sure the tune was crap. The base maps (without correction) are not dialed in *at all* for most people's setups- and then the thing is essentially running directly off the wb02... When they die I usually find it barely driveable.


ok i will check out everything, damn dyno is kind of expensive, but i will work it out. 02 is replaced now


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Vegeta Gti said:


>


turbo encapulator??opcorn:


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

what adjustments should i make? this set up i should be pushing 400whp i would think......or am i wrong?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Theres 2 ways to make power. More boost and more timing. There is a limit to each. If you havent adjusted timing then you def have headroom to make more power. Did you have alot of timing pull? What was your overall timing advance towards redline?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

You may also want to consider replacing your reciprocating dingle arm. Sound expensive but i say its worth it. Only 750000000. Im buying 2 just in case.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

spartiati said:


> Theres 2 ways to make power. More boost and more timing. There is a limit to each. If you havent adjusted timing then you def have headroom to make more power. Did you have alot of timing pull? What was your overall timing advance towards redline?


i thought the same thing, i dialed up 24psi on my boost controller and saw no change in power. would i need to change in my maestro settings for boost requested?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

If you're going way rich it's not really gonna matter how much boost you run, the car will be a dog. Find a shop that can build you a custom tune w/ Maestro and be done with it.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

screwball said:


> If you're going way rich it's not really gonna matter how much boost you run, the car will be a dog. Find a shop that can build you a custom tune w/ Maestro and be done with it.


yup gathered that, unfortuantely there really are no tuners around here, unless you count vermont sportscar that i would trust to tune it. Vermont doent have a good resource of tuners lol, but i will find someone, will most likely be 4-5 hours away for me. was trying to see what i could do on my end. thanks everryone for your help i owe beers to those who posted up help.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Are you running a 3 bar fpr? Silly but i had forgotten what i had in there and it was my stupid mistake. Check that.

First see if someone is nice enough to send you their 70mm file or whoever has a tuned 75mm tb 630 file. If not you can send me your file and ill adjust the airflow maps for ya.just get me some full throttle logs 3rd or 4th gear with no wheelspin or tcs kicking in. 


To tune yourself these are the easiest steps to follow:
Do some maestro logs and then load your file into maeatro tuning suite.
Load your log file(which was a 3rd or 4th gear pull until redline)
Play the file and take note of the highlighted cells of the map. Especially when tps is at 99%(full throttle)
If you see there is minimal correction(which in your case should prob be none) then add afew degrees flash and repeat.

Do this for your timing and main fuel correction.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

spartiati said:


> Are you running a 3 bar fpr? Silly but i had forgotten what i had in there and it was my stupid mistake. Check that.
> 
> First see if someone is nice enough to send you their 70mm file or whoever has a tuned 75mm tb 630 file. If not you can send me your file and ill adjust the airflow maps for ya.just get me some full throttle logs 3rd or 4th gear with no wheelspin or tcs kicking in.
> 
> ...


yes its the stock FPR. and i will look to see if anyone else has the 75mm file. thank you for the help man beers on me if we ever meet up


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

does EPL in Conn tune Maestro setups?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

screwball said:


> does EPL in Conn tune Maestro setups?


i have no idea, but i will search them out and see what i can find out


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Anybody know how to set idle and light load lambda to something leaner. I've messed with afew maps but requested always stays at 1.0. I have a long commute and would like to go to like 15.5-16:1 to see if I can get some more mileage out of her. I have an egt and o2 gauge to make sure temps stay in spec. Any help would be appreciated.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

had a trackday today and dialling in my new EV-14 1000cc injectors. Sometimes at WOT it seems like my ECU stops correcting and I saw AFR drop to less that 10...... Other times it was pretty decent around 12AFR.

Any ideas what to correct. I have BVC values with the injectors. Mby my IC is too high for the flow of the injectors and together with WMI its too much for the ECU to correct and it just kicks out? 

:wave:


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Gulfstream said:


> had a trackday today and dialling in my new EV-14 1000cc injectors. Sometimes at WOT it seems like my ECU stops correcting and I saw AFR drop to less that 10...... Other times it was pretty decent around 12AFR.
> 
> Any ideas what to correct. I have BVC values with the injectors. Mby my BVC is too high for the flow of the injectors and together with WMI its too much for the ECU to correct and it just kicks out?
> 
> :wave:


Can't help you bud but what are you running for an IC and could you share your BVC values??? I'm having a hell of a time getting mine dialed in still... Not sure how much different my bosch ev-14 910cc are from your 1000cc but would love if you would share your values... TIA:thumbup:


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

One-Eight GTI said:


> Can't help you bud but what are you running for an IC and could you share your BVC values??? I'm having a hell of a time getting mine dialed in still... Not sure how much different my bosch ev-14 910cc are from your 1000cc but would love if you would share your values... TIA:thumbup:


Hey Brad doesn't maestro have a bosch 910cc button in the injectir wizard? Course it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't correct LOL!!


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

velocity196 said:


> Hey Brad doesn't maestro have a bosch 910cc button in the injectir wizard? Course it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't correct LOL!!


LOL, Yeah Al it used to but it was way off anyway... Now that you can calculate your IC by a formula in injector wizard, and he now gives you two options for BVC values 550cc and 630.. Thats it so I calculated my IC and ran the 550cc BVC values so the curve is somewhat correct and have been playing with block 032 trying to get my LTFT as close to 0 as I can...

Anyway been playing with them alot and just would like some values from someone that actually has info on the BVC values... Now I'm getting a massive rev hang and its pissing me off:banghead: I never had any literature on my Injectors and can't find much on the internet... So if Gulfstream has the BVC values that would be great


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

One-Eight GTI said:


> LOL, Yeah Al it used to but it was way off anyway... Now that you can calculate your IC by a formula in injector wizard, and he now gives you two options for BVC values 550cc and 630.. Thats it so I calculated my IC and ran the 550cc BVC values so the curve is somewhat correct and have been playing with block 032 trying to get my LTFT as close to 0 as I can...
> 
> Anyway been playing with them alot and just would like some values from someone that actually has info on the BVC values... Now I'm getting a massive rev hang and its pissing me off:banghead: I never had any literature on my Injectors and can't find much on the internet... So if Gulfstream has the BVC values that would be great


Howdy, so... I think we have same injectors. They where first sold to me as Bosch 1000cc, turned out to be EV-14 "1000cc" actually flowing 910cc at 14V. I used the latest wizard in Maestro when you put in motor volume, number cylinders and then injector flow (910) but that went as well a described above.

Obviously that number is too low, SO last night I tested the wizard with other flow numbers starting at 1000cc and worked my way down. I zeroed out all main fuel corrections and injector corrections and tried to get idle as close to 14.7AFR before it goes into closed loop. Ended up with 980cc in the wizard and IC at 0.033300.

The BVC numbers I got from seller is:

2,7 @ 8V
1,8 @ 10V
1,3 @ 12V
1,0 @ 14V
0,8 @ 16V


Havent got much time to play with it as Im off to work for two weeks but they seems to be at least better than what I used to have.


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

just a funny piece of info .. dynoed yesterday with 2 ecu's ... one maestro and one uni.. both set up the same ..off the shelf uni and off the shelf maestro ....

uni made 367 @ 24 psi steady afr's
maestro 334 @ 24 psi afr's all over the place and one run made 303 ???? with nothing changed ..... lol 

and uni spooled 600 rpm sooner 

shop temp was 95 degrees allowing a 10 min cool down between swapping ecu's 

going to fully tune the maestro and see what happens


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

kamahao112 said:


> just a funny piece of info .. dynoed yesterday with 2 ecu's ... one maestro and one uni.. both set up the same ..off the shelf uni and off the shelf maestro ....
> 
> uni made 367 @ 24 psi steady afr's
> maestro 334 @ 24 psi afr's all over the place and one run made 303 ???? with nothing changed ..... lol
> ...


That's cuz Uni rules DUH!


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

kamahao112 said:


> just a funny piece of info .. dynoed yesterday with 2 ecu's ... one maestro and one uni.. both set up the same ..off the shelf uni and off the shelf maestro ....
> 
> uni made 367 @ 24 psi steady afr's
> maestro 334 @ 24 psi afr's all over the place and one run made 303 ???? with nothing changed ..... lol
> ...


I'm sure with enough work with Maestro you would be able to get to the Unitronics #'s, As we all know the Base Files from Eurodyne SUCK... As shown above... But with the rite tuner Eurodyne has potential, I need to find one though:laugh:


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

One-Eight GTI said:


> I'm sure with enough work with Maestro you would be able to get to the Unitronics #'s, As we all know the Base Files from Eurodyne SUCK... As shown above... But with the rite tuner Eurodyne has potential, I need to find one though:laugh:



yes i agree .. in the hands of someone who knows how to fully take advantage of maestro it could be very potent ... but for most of us ... um not so much ...

other issue is the lack of cut and dry info out there for it ...

like if we could get a solid fill in the blank answers for these 
Load correction--- The load correction map will alter the actual load signal ( lowering it will lean out the mixture)
Main fuel correction--- 
Alpha N DIFFERENT---
Injection correction--- The injection correction map will just change the injector duty (lowering it will lean out the mixture)
Drivers wish--- 
Acceleration fuel--- 
Decceleration fuel--- 
Injector constant--- the injector constant will scale the injector duty globally (lowering it will make the car run leaner)
Constant for fuel consumption gauge--- 
EGT threshold for full load lambda ---
Battery voltage compensation---the battery voltage compensation. This values is added to the base pulse width, and have a big effect at idle. If your problem is mostly at idle or low pulsewidths, you may want to lower these values.
Full load lambda--- 
Warmup fuel correction--- 
Flowmeter--- 


that would help....

would mark or ed or any one who knows this stuff like to help us little guys out .. or does it still have the well i figured it out with no one else's help so ur on your own mentality ????

sink or swim bi7ches!!!


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

kamahao112 said:


> other issue is the lack of cut and dry info out there for it ...


 I'm sure you have seen this on the Forums for Eurodyne but I'll post it anyway in case someone overlooked it

http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=689


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

One-Eight GTI said:


> I'm sure you have seen this on the Forums for Eurodyne but I'll post it anyway in case someone overlooked it
> 
> http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=689



thank bro .. ive actually havnt seen that yet :thumbup:


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

kamahao112 said:


> yes i agree .. in the hands of someone who knows how to fully take advantage of maestro it could be very potent ... but for most of us ... um not so much ...
> 
> other issue is the lack of cut and dry info out there for it ...
> 
> ...


? I'm not sure where the big questions lie, a lot of those maps are pretty self explanatory if you have read this thread and the eurodyne thread. If you don't understand some and have read the threads I will elaborate more when I have time (I'm on lunch now); most of them I have a decent understanding of. However some of the maps your asking about are basic knowledge when tuning ECM's and you really shouldn't be tinkering if you do not have a clear understanding; most likely your only going to be bandaiding your tune.

Something I do want to point out..
*It seems quite a few people seem to think BVC is for tuning your engine. Its exactly what is says a battery compensation table. Things like headlights, fuel pumps, stereos, fans, RPM's all affect the current draw on the car which will in turn affect the voltage signal to the injectors. Thats what the table compensates for. You should plug in the manufacture values and tweek slightly from there. This table (within reason) is not to be used to adjust your A/F, that is for the fuel correction, injector corretion, requested lamba depending on your situation and logs. I can't recall but there should also be a latency graph to tune out quick current drops/spikes (like when your fans kick on) I don't recall seeing this (haven't looked in a month or two) maybe TAPP has not made this available *

Yes our ecm is complicated but its NOT that differet that what other tuning softwares have been doing for the past 6-7 years.

*Check out ECMtuning.com (mostly for dsms) there is a wealth of information there on how many of our maps should be corrected/tuned.*

:thumbup:


EDIT:



kamahao112 said:


> thank bro .. ive actually havnt seen that yet :thumbup:


Was typing when you responded. Check em out. Not bashing you at all or trying to come off as a d-bag. There is a lot to digest.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

another thing mr Tapp told me in case you have difficulties getting the motor into closed loop at idle is to lower the TPS axis value at around 1000rpms in the alpha N graph. This will increase load and force it into closed loop.

Worked for me with my EV-14 "1000cc" injectors.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

hey guys.. i'm having a hard time getting my car to idle smoothly and run smoothly when it's warming up and i'm wondering how i can fix this, it's starting to drive me crazy.. 

when i first start my car (cold) it idles nice and smooth, rich (12-13 afr's) but then once it starts correcting with the o2 sensor it swings back and forth between rich and lean and misfires.. also if i try to drive while it's warming up, out of boost it stumbles and misfires a lot until the engine is completely warmed up and running for a while. 

any ideas on what might be wrong? :banghead:

my setup:
2.1L stroker
870cc injectors
pte5857dbb
stock intake mani / tb / awp head

:beer:


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## Stoked_On_Spool (Mar 19, 2009)

spartiati said:


> tuning maestro on any car with any setup would be a similar process ...
> 
> On my frankenturbo i had it dialed in, in terms of timing and overall fueling in a handfull of dyno pulls ... I've done plenty of tinkering since but to say this isnt good to run on a frankenturbo is silly ...
> f4 with rods and maestro would be a ridiculous autocross beast!


what "base map" did you start with? i've contacted maestro about it and they said they dont have a base map for me to start out on for the FT, did you just start with a K04 tune and tweak it till you got everything dialed in? 

i do have a FMIC already but i havent done rods. i'm getting more and more familiar with tuning bec im engine lead on our FSAE race car at san diego state university using AEM Pro standalone unit. but i had a solid base map to start my tuning from on our fsae car...


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

The base maps from eurodyne are fairly solid, the problem that a lot of people(myself included when i started with maestro) people seem to have is they don't fully understand how the ME system works. so what they end up doing is changing only the maps they are comfortable with(or they think they are comfortable with) and expect an end result that in reality requires small tweaks on 3-4 maps to acquire.

Once you understand the base working of the ME system and how it requests torque and such you can very easily work out 85% of the maps and how they work, the other 15% you can gain an understand by making small changes and observing what happens after a short ride.

Another good thing I found was to watch the tracing histogram across a variety of maps and see exactly where the engine is looking up on that map when certain things are happening, I've learned a lot by simply watching which cells the ecu was referencing in problem area's I have having even those the trace histogram wasn't providing me with any corrections.

I currently have a stage 2 tune with pretty much every bolt on you can think of except W/M and I have ported and polished the turbine side of my k03s. Just to give you an idea of the work needed on the stage 2 tune to have my car run great 95% of the time(still have some small partial throttle surging issues I'm dialing in) I've had to make adjustments to the following maps:

Accel pedal
target filling
optimium engine torque
timing map cam pos 1
timing map cam pos 2
timing correction for air temp
timing vs coolant temp
main fuel correction
power enrichment
accel fuel
injector constant
EGT for full lambda needed to be lowered
full load lambda
Boost PID
Boost duty
Max VE

that's 16 different maps with modifications including but not limited to:
changing X-axis values
changing Y axis values
smoothing areas of the map
changing cell values
removing entire unused columns and populating entire new areas of the map

an example would be my boost PID map

I adjusted it so I could change my PID corrections while under 5PSI 8PSI and 12+PSI and removing the first 2 columns of the map and moved all the values down. This allowed for much smoother partial throttle boost

The full load lambda map needed a LOT of work for my application, and I am now ironing out the target filling for partial throttle.

maestro is a very powerful program and allows you to do a lot with it... but you really have to get your feet wet and learning fully how the system you are trying to modify works to full utilize it.

it takes a lot of trial and error, I lot of note making and taking and a seriously scientific approach to tuning and observing changes.

best advice I can give is to do a nice long datalog as suggest on the forum:

some idle time
various partial throttles (vacuum only, 5psi held, 12psi(wastegate spring pressure) held)
steady state cruising
full throttle
all in various gears

make notes or mental remember various problem areas then find those problem area's in the log and play them as you watch the highlighted cell on the various maps, doing this while making small changes you'll begin to notice how you fix various problems...


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

kamahao112 said:


> Load correction--- The load correction map will alter the actual load signal ( lowering it will lean out the mixture)
> Main fuel correction---
> Alpha N DIFFERENT---
> Injection correction--- The injection correction map will just change the injector duty (lowering it will lean out the mixture)
> ...


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Budsdubbin said:


> kamahao112 said:
> 
> 
> > Load correction--- The load correction map will alter the actual load signal ( lowering it will lean out the mixture)
> ...


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

bottom of the page ftl 



dubbin_boho said:


> hey guys.. i'm having a hard time getting my car to idle smoothly and run smoothly when it's warming up and i'm wondering how i can fix this, it's starting to drive me crazy..
> 
> when i first start my car (cold) it idles nice and smooth, rich (12-13 afr's) but then once it starts correcting with the o2 sensor it swings back and forth between rich and lean and misfires.. also if i try to drive while it's warming up, out of boost it stumbles and misfires a lot until the engine is completely warmed up and running for a while.
> 
> ...


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## createddeleted (Sep 24, 2008)

How is everybody treating thier LTFT?


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Load - (not sure what map we are talking here--on lunch again) Will affect the calculated load of the car which in turn affects timing maps maybe some others. I need to learn more about this...
> 
> eace:


 read somewhere load = cylinder filling


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

*870 file trouble*

I was wondering if any would be willing to lend me an already tuned file for a SEM 80mm IM, and a 80mm tb. I got sent the 870cc mafless file but its just a base file tuned for the stock IM and TB, and the a/f is so lean its not even registering and when i try to drive it hesitates like crazy and acts like its not getting enough fuel? I need my car running properly by Monday so any help would be great.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

d18tfoltz said:


> I was wondering if any would be willing to lend me an already tuned file for a SEM 80mm IM, and a 80mm tb. I got sent the 870cc mafless file but its just a base file tuned for the stock IM and TB, and the a/f is so lean its not even registering and when i try to drive it hesitates like crazy and acts like its not getting enough fuel? I need my car running properly by Monday so any help would be great.


 I had the same problem with 70mm and stock IM TB file. Not sure how many have this file, but you need to adjust your alpha N and tb vs airflow maps at idle which is the second/third rows.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Dub-Nub said:


> I had the same problem with 70mm and stock IM TB file. Not sure how many have this file, but you need to adjust your alpha N and tb vs airflow maps at idle which is the second/third rows.


 Or the easy lame man way is to add 30% in the primary fuel map


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

Originally Posted by Dub-Nub 


> I had the same problem with 70mm and stock IM TB file. Not sure how many have this file, but you need to adjust your alpha N and tb vs airflow maps at idle which is the second/third rows.


 I thought alpha N alpha N and tb vs airflow maps at idle was for if you had a maf my tune is for mafless? And if I'm wrong how much would you reccomend to change +/- 5 to 10%? 

Originally Posted by velocity196 


> Or the easy lame man way is to add 30% in the primary fuel map


 Do you mean add 30% to all fuel maps or just certain ones like main fuel correction? What about adding to injector options? Just to clarify when you say add 30% you mean this: 1.0001x30%=1.2970?


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Gulfstream said:


> another thing mr Tapp told me in case you have difficulties getting the motor into closed loop at idle is to lower the TPS axis value at around 1000rpms in the alpha N graph. This will increase load and force it into closed loop.
> 
> Worked for me with my EV-14 "1000cc" injectors.


 Would you care to elaborate on this??? I've been playing still with my BVS and IC and have gotten it closer (way closer) and my values are actually getting close to your values... Anyway now I am getting no O2 corrections at Idle due to problem you posted above... Can you show me a pic of your Alpha N graph... Would be greatly appreciated if you could... TIA


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

One-Eight GTI said:


> Would you care to elaborate on this??? I've been playing still with my BVS and IC and have gotten it closer (way closer) and my values are actually getting close to your values... Anyway now I am getting no O2 corrections at Idle due to problem you posted above... Can you show me a pic of your Alpha N graph... Would be greatly appreciated if you could... TIA


 Sure, on the Alpha N graph, right click on the two top column values to the left (1,500 and 2,300 TPS) and drop them 5-10%. I can post my graph in a week and half when Im home from traveling. I have however populated the graph with values from my 3" MAF so it will differ from yours.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Thanks Gulfstream, you have been lots of help, So I just dropped them by 5% to start with so my first one went from 1.5001 to 1.428 and 2nd one 2.4996 to 2.3745... I'll flash it in later and see what happens.. Thanks again:thumbup:


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

d18tfoltz said:


> Originally Posted by Dub-Nub
> 
> 
> I thought alpha N alpha N and tb vs airflow maps at idle was for if you had a maf my tune is for mafless? And if I'm wrong how much would you reccomend to change +/- 5 to 10%?
> ...


 If your not sure what your doing you should just go into the read settings program and add 25 to 30% in primary fuel. It will adjust for your higher air flow capability on the big IM and throttle. Adjusting alpha n and throttle body vs air flow has a huge affect on load. If you adjust it to much the car will not perform smoothly. And I have not had time to mess with load maps to help. Maybe someone else can help. 
Al


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

Al ur my hero


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

velocity196


> If your not sure what your doing you should just go into the read settings program and add 25 to 30% in primary fuel. It will adjust for your higher air flow capability on the big IM and throttle. Adjusting alpha n and throttle body vs air flow has a huge affect on load. If you adjust it to much the car will not perform smoothly. And I have not had time to mess with load maps to help. Maybe someone else can help.
> Al


 I already tried to add in the quick settings it didnt do anything, I went from 100 to 130 and my a/f didnt change it still read 17.0-18.0 or way to lean to show anything. So It has to be changed in the file for any major changes. I also logged block 032 and it was about this 9, 15?


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

Has anyone had any "bucking" when letting off the gas in 1st or 2nd gear? Basically, when I let off completely it feels like its bouncing between the backlash in the gearing (spacing between the drive and coast sides of a gear) Nothing too major, just not as smooth as I'd like it to be. 

If I ease off the throttle I can pretty much eliminate it, but if I'm driving at basically any throttle position and just take my foot off the pedal to transition to the brake pedal, I get this bucking. 

I'm running the 630 base, no changes made yet. This has been present since I loaded the software so I figure it's likely the file that needs a little tweak


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

d18tfoltz said:


> velocity196
> 
> I already tried to add in the quick settings it didnt do anything, I went from 100 to 130 and my a/f didnt change it still read 17.0-18.0 or way to lean to show anything. So It has to be changed in the file for any major changes. I also logged block 032 and it was about this 9, 15?


 LOL if you added 30% more fuel and your still at least 15% lean you good sir are right were the rest of us are. Fu($ed, and we aren't moving very quickly meow are we?! This system has been out for what, 2 yrs now? And to my knowledge nobody has yet to make a stock IM and stock throttle file to run perfectly on an upgraded IM and large throttle body. Like I said I have not worked with load maps enough to help out. Alpha n and throttle body vs air flow are 2 major maps that are not correct when you add a big IM and throttle. If you adjust them according to educated calculation the car reacts extremely aggressively, unpleasant and plain irritating to drive. The lil bit of load mapping that I've experienced hasn't been much fun either. Sorry I'm not much help, anyone else have anything?


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

velocity196 said:


> . Sorry I'm not much help, anyone else have anything?


 
yea i like bluuueeeeee


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Anyone try a hammer on these yet? lol...


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

d18tfoltz said:


> I was wondering if any would be willing to lend me an already tuned file for a SEM 80mm IM, and a 80mm tb. I got sent the 870cc mafless file but its just a base file tuned for the stock IM and TB, and the a/f is so lean its not even registering and when i try to drive it hesitates like crazy and acts like its not getting enough fuel? I need my car running properly by Monday so any help would be great.


 Try this with 80mm HEMI TB. Don't change anything else in your map... just import these two. You have an option in Maestro to import maps. 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18966815/Alpha_N.bin 
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18966815/Throttle_angle_vs_airflow.bin 

I hope this helps. 

Anyway there is no way to effectively "calculate" these values as far as I know. You can use MAF to collect some data and then use histogram in Maestro to correct the map values. This will be ideal way of tuning these two tables for your car. It will give you real world values specifically for your car since no two cars will flow the same amount of air. 

Once I fix the clutch issues on my car I will try to get some proper maps for 70mm and 80mm throttle bodies. I still have APR MAF housing which I can use to measure air flow.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

im having some difficulty maximizing my tune, anyone with a map for SEM 80mm intake manifold, a VW 75mm throttle body, cams, port and polish, valves, rods, feel free to hit me up. i could use the help. email is [email protected] :beer: thaks again for all the help guys.


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

SGTphatboy said:


> im having some difficulty maximizing my tune, anyone with a map for SEM 80mm intake manifold, a VW 75mm throttle body, cams, port and polish, valves, rods, feel free to hit me up. i could use the help. email is [email protected] :beer: thaks again for all the help guys.


 take a number ..lol


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

kamahao112 said:


> take a number ..lol


 lol i figured, i got some help with the throttle body, but if anyone else is up to help out i would greatly appreciate it


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

I have attempted to gather data using the MAF and my readings are about 50% higher then the standard map when at idle and very low TB openings. 

I used the standard 70mm TB map provided on maestro forums and my car had idle issues, it was really really lean. I had to adjust the injector constant and BVC values to get it to idle.


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

Originally Posted by mescaline


> Try this with 80mm HEMI TB. Don't change anything else in your map... just import these two. You have an option in Maestro to import maps.
> 
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18966815/Alpha_N.bin
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18966815/Thr...vs_airflow.bin
> ...


 thanks for those they helped out with my idle and normal driving, however I have full throttle and partial throttle hesitation into boost. If I drive normal and keep boost under 5psi the car is fine but if I smash the throttle it hesitates and almost feels like the tb is sticking and/or closes and the a/f goes straight to 10.0 as soon as I hit the throttle. and if I go slowly into boost and creep past 5-8psi then punch it sometimes the car drive like normal. If anyine can help or have any suggestion on what to do or change please tell me.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Did you use new injector wizard to correct battery voltage compensation and injector constant? What injectors do you have exactly?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

d18tfoltz said:


> Originally Posted by mescaline
> 
> thanks for those they helped out with my idle and normal driving, however I have full throttle and partial throttle hesitation into boost. If I drive normal and keep boost under 5psi the car is fine but if I smash the throttle it hesitates and almost feels like the tb is sticking and/or closes and the a/f goes straight to 10.0 as soon as I hit the throttle. *and if I go slowly into boost and creep past 5-8psi then punch it sometimes the car drive like normal*. If anyine can help or have any suggestion on what to do or change please tell me.


 
This happened to me when my Alpha N map did not match the tb vs airflow map..it would boost 5psi less if i creeped to boost and i would punch it at higher RPM's. I haven't had a chance to look at the maps that were uploaded.


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

mescaline said:


> Did you use new injector wizard to correct battery voltage compensation and injector constant? What injectors do you have exactly?


 No I didnt use injector wizard but it came with the base 870cc file, I'll try to do that today and see what happens.


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

Ok so i did the injector wizard and put in all my info for thre 870cc injectors I have and no change still has rough idle and I cant go full throttle with out having intense bucking. If there is anyone in the Jacksonville. NC area or surrounding area that would be willing to help me with my issues let me know. I'll even by some :beer::beer::beer: while were working. pm or e-mail at [email protected] thanks.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Is car throwing any error codes or anything? Is it OK hardware wise? No exhaust leaks? Tune will heavily depend on O2 sensor, make sure it's ok.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

mescaline said:


> Is car throwing any error codes or anything? Is it OK hardware wise? No exhaust leaks? Tune will heavily depend on O2 sensor, make sure it's ok.


 and make sure the fault code diagnosis are enabled. When I got my file almost everything was disabled; I actually had a code I couldn't see because of this.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

What's TAPPs explanation on the bucking?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

d18tfoltz said:


> Ok so i did the injector wizard and put in all my info for thre 870cc injectors I have and no change still has rough idle and I cant go full throttle with out having intense bucking. If there is anyone in the Jacksonville. NC area or surrounding area that would be willing to help me with my issues let me know. I'll even by some :beer::beer::beer: while were working. pm or e-mail at [email protected] thanks.


 Im not in your area, but i sent you an email


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

quick maf question. I got my hands on an S4 maf which I was going to do some logging with. Should I use the housing and sensor, or should I use the housing and the stock sensor from my awp?


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

sabbySC said:


> quick maf question. I got my hands on an S4 maf which I was going to do some logging with. Should I use the housing and sensor, or should I use the housing and the stock sensor from my awp?


 I asked the same question to Chris some time ago. If you use the S4 profile from Maestro then use the S4 MAF housing and sensor.


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## dick tracy (Aug 23, 2011)

I have the S4 B5 MAF and housing in my S3, it maxes out at +-335g/s


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Thanks, that is what I thought. Seems the first time I tried it my car ran like a bag of poo. I'll give it a shot again though.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

kinda a dumb question.. what's the most boost you can run with pump gas? i'm running 25psi right now with a mbc


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

dubbin_boho said:


> kinda a dumb question.. what's the most boost you can run with pump gas? i'm running 25psi right now with a mbc


 Depends on a lot of variables. The only way to know for sure is to log your runs and watch for knock.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

ok me and my buddy did some logs with it one night and it was pulling about 6* at wot and we edited the timing map until it wasn't pulling timing any more.. I can post up my timing map later if you guys wanna check it out


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

on wide open throttle you are allowed up to 6* of timing pull. The computer can correct up to 12*. Not saying what you did wasnt good but you took away some power def. 

2 basic ways to up power ( and this is a crude description based on the same hardware) 

1) more boost 
2) more timing advance


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

at what point does the computer switch to the max VE map under knock? I know in maestro logs anything over 3* of pull show up red, if it's under 6* then I gotta toss some more timing in as I did the same as the poster above and pulled timing until there was no more timing pull. For the histogram if you trace it and there is any timing pull at all it suggest pulling timing out of that position till there is none or less the .75* honestly I can't see why with the tunability that maestro offers why you would want to have 6* of timing pull... I know that was the rule when people are messing with unisettings and you can only make blanket changes but with maestro as soon as 2 cylinders are 0 you should call that region good, there is no reason to have all cylinders pulling timing by the computer... at that point you need to adjust either the timing, or the timing by temp map or something in that area if you have 6* of timing pull between cylinders you have a problem elsewhere. 


As does anyone know a way to monitor actual pedal position, not throttle position bu pedal position


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

I'm just repasting this from the VVT thread incase some of you guys didn't see it regarding the addition of the cam timing table. 



> *So yes the cam timing table is there but he said not to waste time right now adjusting it until he does more testing and implements another feature. Chris said there will be an announcement on the Eurodyne forum when everything is complete. *


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I'm just repasting this from the VVT thread incase some of you guys didn't see it regarding the addition of the cam timing table.


 This is great news :thumbup:


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

xxsur3shotxx said:


> Has anyone had any "bucking" when letting off the gas in 1st or 2nd gear? Basically, when I let off completely it feels like its bouncing between the backlash in the gearing (spacing between the drive and coast sides of a gear) Nothing too major, just not as smooth as I'd like it to be.
> 
> If I ease off the throttle I can pretty much eliminate it, but if I'm driving at basically any throttle position and just take my foot off the pedal to transition to the brake pedal, I get this bucking.
> 
> I'm running the 630 base, no changes made yet. This has been present since I loaded the software so I figure it's likely the file that needs a little tweak


Posted this a few days ago, with no response. No one else having similar issues?


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I'm just repasting this from the VVT thread incase some of you guys didn't see it regarding the addition of the cam timing table.


very cool :thumbup:


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

alright well here's how my timing map is currently after editing and logging.. white cells are where it traced through at WOT. it's getting zero correction vs the original map where it was pulling between 3* and 6* correction. what do you guys think?


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

dubbin_boho said:


> alright well here's how my timing map is currently after editing and logging.. white cells are where it traced through at WOT. it's getting zero correction vs the original map where it was pulling between 3* and 6* correction. what do you guys think?


Boho, what compression and fuel are you running? Meth injection? Your timing look super low to me.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

93 octane 9.5:1 no water/meth.. my intercooler is too small though, eurojet street kit


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

You did only one pull? You should do a few and go through a lot of different situations and then use average value in histogram. Although I don't know why you are changing it, pull from 3-6 is acceptable.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

xxsur3shotxx said:


> Has anyone had any "bucking" when letting off the gas in 1st or 2nd gear? Basically, when I let off completely it feels like its bouncing between the backlash in the gearing (spacing between the drive and coast sides of a gear) Nothing too major, just not as smooth as I'd like it to be.
> 
> If I ease off the throttle I can pretty much eliminate it, but if I'm driving at basically any throttle position and just take my foot off the pedal to transition to the brake pedal, I get this bucking.
> 
> I'm running the 630 base, no changes made yet. This has been present since I loaded the software so I figure it's likely the file that needs a little tweak


Are you sure this isn't just engine movement due to a worn out bushing or engine mount or pendulum mount?


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

groggory said:


> Are you sure this isn't just engine movement due to a worn out bushing or engine mount or pendulum mount?


well, I have already replaced the dogbone with the ECS one a few months ago. I suppose it's possible it could be the other two mounts, as they are OEM.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

mescaline said:


> You did only one pull? You should do a few and go through a lot of different situations and then use average value in histogram. Although I don't know why you are changing it, pull from 3-6 is acceptable.


nah i did like 5-6 4th gear pulls, logging and editing between each one until it wasn't pulling timing anymore.. but if it's pulling timing like that isn't it knocking? or no.. i'm still kinda confused haha


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

knock sensors are "listening" to the cylinders if you will. Before it starts to ping as the old carbeurated cars use to if they ran **** gas, it'll correct by pulling some timing. In other words it listens for a combustion chamber that may be on the verge of knocking and apply a correction. That is your correction. The computer can correct up to 12*. 4-6* has become the accepted safe limit.

I generally like tuning my car on a worst case scenario. Hot Humid summer days will make the motor want to knock more. If I can tune for 6* of correction in 90*+ weather, then when it's 70 or any temperature below that timing will be more than fine and corrections less than 6*. 

If I am wrong someone please correct me however this is how I have my car running and it has made a tremendous difference. 

This was afew timing tweaks I did while strapped to the dyno. I had zero correction at first and then by getting it up to 6* throughout full load rev band those were about the final results.

__
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Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

what would be the best way to fix minor surging? Basically during partial throttle say I want to hit 10 PSI what will happen is it will hit 10.. bounce to around 8-8.5 the settle in at 10-9PSI. Below 10PSi the bounce only happens once and settles so it's not so bad. but around 12-15 it will constantly bounce back and forth. Would lowering the boost PID map help solve this or the wastegate duty cycle or a combo of both?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

dubbin_boho said:


> 93 octane 9.5:1 no water/meth.. my intercooler is too small though, eurojet street kit


I noticed this tonight. If I do a longer multi-gear pull I will start to get a lil timing correction as I wind out the higher gear. 22 psi pulls; more than I usually run.

I noticed on my histogram trace when I got timing pull for air intake temp and cross referenced cylinder correction it only occured on cylinders 3 or 4


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

spartiati said:


> knock sensors are "listening" to the cylinders if you will. Before it starts to ping as the old carbeurated cars use to if they ran **** gas, it'll correct by pulling some timing. In other words it listens for a combustion chamber that may be on the verge of knocking and apply a correction. That is your correction. The computer can correct up to 12*. 4-6* has become the accepted safe limit.
> 
> I generally like tuning my car on a worst case scenario. Hot Humid summer days will make the motor want to knock more. If I can tune for 6* of correction in 90*+ weather, then when it's 70 or any temperature below that timing will be more than fine and corrections less than 6*.
> 
> ...


Thats pretty impressive :thumbup: Now you were manually adding timing to each cell or increasing over a large range? The tracing feature will not add timing correct? 


I'm surprised; I had decreased a few spots because I thought being on the safe edge of no pull would yield more consistant power due to no correction. Someone tell me if its just me but when I'm doing a pull and I get 3* correction I feel it. Its subtle but I feel a lil restrain in the engines mojo. I guess I will have to start going the other direction.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Tracing doesnt add only can take away timing. 

I basically uswd the trace to highlight the cells the computer was looking at and then added 4* initially since it wasnt pulling any. After the first pull on the street map i wemt straight to the race map and the result was serious difference in power. I then took some timing out on top and kinda been fine tuning it ever since. I can now run 21-24& timing advance to redline with minimal correction. Pretty sweet. Meth helps a good amount.


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## 031.8wolf (Mar 16, 2010)

ok guys so is it possible to do immo defeat with maestro. if so please pm with instructions.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Tapp has to E-mail or tell you the code. He did it on the phone for me.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Anyone have any idea why I'm losing o2 correction from 4500-5500 RPM? I have logs I can post up later but everything seems to be running great. No timing correction, good IATS etc. ECM just dumps fuel for some reason then starts doing active o2 correction again.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Welcome to the club, there's a bunch of us w/ this problem.


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## Rideforlife_33 (Oct 18, 2008)

this may or may not have been talked about at some point, but can you use eurodyne on a mac? becaause I cant seem to get mine to work on my mac...


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

Rideforlife_33 said:


> this may or may not have been talked about at some point, but can you use eurodyne on a mac? becaause I cant seem to get mine to work on my mac...


No. It's a Windows platform program. The install is a .exe file. However, it does work perfectly fine if you dual boot your Mac. That's how I run it. ( I run OSX Snow Leopard on one partition, and Windows 7 on the other.)


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

vmware fusion 3....live,on the fly, simultaneous OS's..i have OSx and a licensed version of W7 by an aftermarket vendor..works amazing.


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## Rideforlife_33 (Oct 18, 2008)

xxsur3shotxx said:


> No. It's a Windows platform program. The install is a .exe file. However, it does work perfectly fine if you dual boot your Mac. That's how I run it. ( I run OSX Snow Leopard on one partition, and Windows 7 on the other.)


Okay thats what I am gonna have to do.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

For those that are losing adaptations have you all deleted sai, combi valve and evap? I have and havent put a resistor in yet . I want to see maybr thatll bring adaptations back. Anyone already running the deletes with the resistors and losing adaptation?


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

spartiati said:


> For those that are losing adaptations have you all deleted sai, combi valve and evap? I have and havent put a resistor in yet . I want to see maybr thatll bring adaptations back. Anyone already running the deletes with the resistors and losing adaptation?


Need resistance on EVAP harness (line under the coolant bottle) and VVT if you go VVTless.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

No i understand that. My question is: are people that havent deleted anything still losing adaptation?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

spartiati said:


> No i understand that. My question is: are people that havent deleted anything still losing adaptation?


On my logs and I've seen it on others; I'm only losing adaptation in part of the power band (4600-5500); right after my turbo hits full boost (coincedence?). I have EVERY OEM sensor plugged in nothing is ressistored. 

Maybe something to do with maxing the MAP sensor? I'm running 22psi now, right at the MAP's max reading. 

I couldn't find any information on Bosch Protection Systems online.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Gotcha. Thats what i was wondering. Im hhaving the same issue. No resistors(yet) and losing adaptation in the same rpm band give or take.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

4th gear log of my intake air temps.. ambient temp was around 60*F

what do you guys think about this?


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

dubbin_boho said:


> 4th gear log of my intake air temps.. ambient temp was around 60*F
> 
> what do you guys think about this?


List your setup....turbo, IC, etc. That will tell if you r ok or running a lil hot (which I think you are) if outside temp was 60*F.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Thats hot for the ambient temps. If you do a multi-gear pull your temps will be even higher. My IATs look about the same on my Eurojet Street FMIC but its been about 80 degrees ambient on my logs. You're going to see some timing pull with those temps.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

heres my setup:
2067cc stroker w/ stock awp head
stock intake mani / throttle body
siemens 870cc injectors
mafless
pte5857dbb turbo
3" turbo back
tubular exhaust mani
eurojet street fmic kit 
-6an fuel lines and bosch 044 fuel pump
ngk bkr7e plugs gapped at .028
shaved engine bay

i was thinking about getting a treadstone tr8 intercooler and some 2.5" intercooler piping.. I think it would help my setup a lot. picking up a TT intake mani too to make a passenger side intake mani setup before I get the money for an SEM


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

get water/meth


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

planning on it.. but i wanna get the hardware fixed before i "cover up" the problem with w/m


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Running this on a new Windows 7 laptop and we can't get it to connect successfully. Any tips?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

what error are you getting screwball? sometimes when I'm flashing I have to wait for it to ask me to disconnect it, i think switch which USB port I was using and it will work.

if that doesn't work I would say try reinstalling it and make sure the drivers install correctly.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

This is in development incase anyone didnt notice

http://www.eurodyne.ca/blog/index.php/2011/08/30/coming-soon-to-our-online-store/


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

No connectivity seems to be the error. It's set to the slowest connection rate, it wakes up the controller, but won't go any further. This is on the latest version of maestro from earlier in the week.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

dubbin_boho said:


> 4th gear log of my intake air temps.. ambient temp was around 60*F
> 
> what do you guys think about this?


Way too hot. I have an IC kit from pagparts and intake temps hardly move at all no matter how hard I push it lol, it rocks!


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

It is installed straight off the desktop and not in a C:/Eurodyne Folder. Am I missing that little "..." code perhaps?


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

screwball said:


> No connectivity seems to be the error. It's set to the slowest connection rate, it wakes up the controller, but won't go any further. This is on the latest version of maestro from earlier in the week.


Try taking instrument cluster fuse out. On some cars clusters are blocking connections for some reason. I think it's #11 or #13...


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

screwball said:


> Running this on a new Windows 7 laptop and we can't get it to connect successfully. Any tips?


Try doing the opposite of the suggested key on/ key off ignition sequence. For some reason mine would only connect when I did it in the reverse of what it said


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Giving a piece of advice before it happens to you.

When reflashing your ECU *DO NOT MOVE!!!1*..if you knock the ob2 port by accident your ecu will brick like mine did. I hope i can recover it without having to send it off to Eurodyne =/


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

^^^ I've done this haven't had a bricked ECU yet. I guess I'm just lucky.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Dub-Nub said:


> Giving a piece of advice before it happens to you.
> 
> When reflashing your ECU *DO NOT MOVE!!!1*..if you knock the ob2 port by accident your ecu will brick like mine did. I hope i can recover it without having to send it off to Eurodyne =/


I think u need a special file from tapp. Or maybe the dealer needs it to get your ecu back up. I remember Pete said once he locked a ecu up and needed a special file from tapp. You could call them for advice, GL :beer:


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

I called Friday and they suggested to disconnect ecu at harness level which I did. I am calling Monday to figure out what to do next, they told me I will probably have to send it in.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Dub-Nub said:


> I called Friday and they suggested to disconnect ecu at harness level which I did. I am calling Monday to figure out what to do next, they told me I will probably have to send it in.


Al least your ecu isn't deal forever. :beer:


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

velocity196 said:


> Al least your ecu isn't deal forever. :beer:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I'm sure he meant *dead


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Gee... Thanks for the clarification dude:sly:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

whatever you say thuglife


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

Been running Windows 7 on my Mac and have flashed many cars with no issues. Try deleting everything and reinstall. Also I have seen a few issues with Antivirus programs doing some wacky stuff...i.e. When AVG is turned on it won't allow me to use the auto update feature in flash program.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

iTech said:


> Been running Windows 7 on my Mac and have flashed many cars with no issues. Try deleting everything and reinstall. Also I have seen a few issues with Antivirus programs doing some wacky stuff...i.e. When AVG is turned on it won't allow me to use the auto update feature in flash program.


I still have major problems logging, I get "to many errors" and it locks up. Apparently I'm the only person with this problem. I reformatted and installed everything fresh, still happens. Sometimes it works great other times it errors out after a minute.


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## George Bush (Nov 13, 2001)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I still have major problems logging, I get "to many errors" and it locks up. Apparently I'm the only person with this problem. I reformatted and installed everything fresh, still happens. Sometimes it works great other times it errors out after a minute.


I have had similar problems with the newer laptops that have a HD save feture. They slows down the HD when the laptop gets moved or knocked arround, kinda like when your driving with it in the Pasenger seat.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

George Bush said:


> I have had similar problems with the newer laptops that have a HD save feture. They slows down the HD when the laptop gets moved or knocked arround, kinda like when your driving with it in the Pasenger seat.


Awesome thanks I will dig into that when I get some free time. Did you find a solution to fixing it or it is what it is?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I've been having the same issues with logging.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I still have major problems logging, I get "to many errors" and it locks up. Apparently I'm the only person with this problem. I reformatted and installed everything fresh, still happens. Sometimes it works great other times it errors out after a minute.


I had the same issues, the solution was to unistall all microsoft service pack updates, than install them again in the correct order. This was using windows XP.


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> This is in development incase anyone didnt notice
> 
> http://www.eurodyne.ca/blog/index.php/2011/08/30/coming-soon-to-our-online-store/


amazing little black box...will review very soon


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

sabbySC said:


> I had the same issues, the solution was to unistall all microsoft service pack updates, than install them again in the correct order. This was using windows XP.


Yeah I wasted 7 hrs doing that one day. Same result. Nothing installed on laptop except Eurodyne. My laptop is an HP; was thinking it had something to do with all their proprietary garbage they put on it. I'm running VISTA.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Yeah I wasted 7 hrs doing that one day. Same result. Nothing installed on laptop except Eurodyne. My laptop is an HP; was thinking it had something to do with all their proprietary garbage they put on it. I'm running VISTA.


I just bought a cheap IBM used laptop, works for me and was $100 bucks. Did you try reformatting and tarting from scratch?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

sabbySC said:


> I just bought a cheap IBM used laptop, works for me and was $100 bucks. Did you try reformatting and tarting from scratch?


Yep, complete format. Sacrificed my ETKA program :facepalm:





Budsdubbin said:


> I've been having the same issues with logging.


What type of laptop and OS? I'm using a HP6730s & vista.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

velocity196 said:


> Al least your ecu isn't deal forever. :beer:


Wait what! :facepalm:



dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


>


Uhh sorry bout that!



screwball said:


> I'm sure he meant *dead


Yep :thumbup:



dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Gee... Thanks for the clarification dude:sly:


LMFAO!! Seriously, you Fu(kin crack me UP Jeff! :beer:

I'll try and look at my phones interpretation of what I type before I hit submit :thumbup:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

What type of laptop and OS? I'm using a HP6730s & vista.[/QUOTE]



Its an ASUS about 6 months old... Running vista not sure on the model but I barly use it for anything else. I don't run into this problem alot but it does happen.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

my car seems to be dumping fuel at idle, 11-12 afr's.. how can i lean it out a bit? 

it runs fine otherwise driving, just super rich at idle.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

lower your battery compensation values until its on.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

I lowered them 30% and it helped a bit.. should I keep going or is that too much?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Anyone kind enough to share there base 630/70mm file? I want to check afew things out. 

[email protected]


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I"ll send you a few. I ran Dubnubs, his worked best for me.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

cool thanks man. appreciate it.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I mentioned changing the injector settings in the email because the latest drop of Maestro seems to set the IC and BVC closer to spec than what was probably written in DN's initial file as it was from over a year ago. Everything else should be in line, but again, there is no 70mm file that Tapp has made, this was just labeled that way.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

screwball said:


> I"ll send you a few. I ran Dubnubs, his worked best for me.


 glad mine worked the best. ive been IMA for a while, my car has been down and i havent done anything. once i get my car running we may work more on yours if you are still having some issues.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

My timing belt jumped some teeth so I don't know if it's been a long term problem that got worse or it just happened recently - all of which could've made the software run like poop. It doesn't appear to have damaged the head and Arnold's replacing Tbelt stuff for me, but we'll see how the car runs afterward w/ his Bottom Mount hardware. What I thought was a massive exhaust leak on the old ATP hardware could've been bad timing as I can't exactly pinpoint when/where the belt jumped. The car was making good power some time ago and the tensioner seems intact so it's all kind of a mystery. I"m eager to see how the car rips once I get it back in good working order again.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Ouch sorry to hear that buddy. Arnolds fixing the car? Are you local to nyc? I live in Brooklyn. Swing by one of our BAR meets on wed night if you're around. 

On a maestro note ive noticed the cam timing option. Im assuming it is still inactive?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I'm about an hour outside of the city. I don't know when the car will be done, but I'd certainly try to go Wednesday if I was grabbing the car that night.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Yep, complete format. Sacrificed my ETKA program :facepalm:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 i have etka install cd copies.....pm me


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

What you need to do to adjust your battery compensation values is find out how much time your ECU is trying to take away from the overall curve. So what you do is.... say your block 32 values are -5 in the first spot and 4 in the second. THe first place is for your battery compensation so what you do is take that percent which is -5 and multiply .05 by your injector constant to get the time in MILLISECONDS that you need to take away from the whole curve so then you subtract each value by the that number.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

screwball said:


> I'm about an hour outside of the city. I don't know when the car will be done, but I'd certainly try to go Wednesday if I was grabbing the car that night.


 Cool. Yeah pm me if ur ever heading down. If your heading to show n go let me know. I should most def be there running my car.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Right on man.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

Budsdubbin said:


> What you need to do to adjust your battery compensation values is find out how much time your ECU is trying to take away from the overall curve. So what you do is.... say your block 32 values are -5 in the first spot and 4 in the second. THe first place is for your battery compensation so what you do is take that percent which is -5 and multiply .05 by your injector constant to get the time in MILLISECONDS that you need to take away from the whole curve so then you subtract each value by the that number.


okay i see.. after 4 days of driving my block 32 values are -2.625 and 0 so i'm pretty close but i'll try adjusting the bvc values some more using that


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

So after all my pissing and moaning running this software on ATP hardware that had it's share of leaks and overall crappiness, it's running much better with new - leakless hardware. It still has hiccups under light load and it's a little rich at WOT, but the pig rich spell I was experiencing is totally gone under load now and overall it just behaves much better. The car used to buck and studder going into boost and while driving at roughly 18-20" of vac (very light load) the car would hiccup every second or so (A/F would sweep from full rich to full lean back and forth). I don't know that there's perfect software out there, but running a slightly tweaked base file with a big port head, intake manifold and just some read settings changes it's doing pretty well.

A word to the wise for anyone that's not running so hot would be to really, really try and get exhaust leaks completely sured up. I think I have a small vac leak at my intake manifold, but otherwise I'm quite happy with how this thing's turned out. Quality hardware's made this a whole new car.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

:thumbup: Glad to hear dude.... Wish my car was running as good as yours, My car will rev up to 2000 rpm's and hang there when coming to stops with or without clutch pushed in... If I turn on my rear defrost, lights ect the rpm's will drop back to normal and my engine load climbs to the 20's and I get O2 correction again... Then I'll turn off my lights ect and tap the throttle and bamm the damn thuing will climb to 2000rpm's hold there and lose O2 corrections engine load drops and afr goes to 10 (pig rich):banghead: If anyone has insight to what the hell to do let me know please... I took off TB and cleaned it,scanned car with Eurodyne and ross tech and no codes


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Ha, so after running a full tank of gas through the car it's pretty much right back to where it was before. It's certainly a little smoother overall w/out a cracked manifold but it stutters, hiccups and shakes it's way right into boost. The light load stuff is back completely and while I do go 10.5:1 on wot it shakes right out to high 11s:1 which I think can be tweaked out fairly easy if one's got the time to mess with the maps.

I"m guessing the car was still adapting while it seemed great initially even though I'd run it for about 45 miles.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

screwball said:


> Ha, so after running a full tank of gas through the car it's pretty much right back to where it was before. It's certainly a little smoother overall w/out a cracked manifold but it stutters, hiccups and shakes it's way right into boost. The light load stuff is back completely and while I do go 10.5:1 on wot it shakes right out to high 11s:1 which I think can be tweaked out fairly easy if one's got the time to mess with the maps.
> 
> I"m guessing the car was still adapting while it seemed great initially even though I'd run it for about 45 miles.


Did you reuse your old hardware? Check bolt torques after a few hundred miles/heat cycles?


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

are you guys happy with the maestro setup???? or any regrets??


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

speed51133! said:


> are you guys happy with the maestro setup???? or any regrets??


Others will definetly chime in; you will find a wide variance of opinions on this.

For me I think its great. It does exactly what I want it to do. I've had it over a year and my car has run nearly flawless from day 1. It was kind of rushed to market and many things weren't 100% correct but they have been continously improving it. IMO my car has made great power and done it reliably w/ minimal issues. 

On the flip side you will find others who have had the software longer than me and fought with it from day 1. IMO its 95% hardware problems but all you will get is a pissing match telling that to someone with issues. Software should run the same on car X just as it does on car Y given the same properly installed hardware. I've seen enough cars locally running & dynoing the software with great results, so I believe in it; others not so much. Recently there was a user who took an off the shelf Uni file & dyno'd compared it to off the shelf Eurodyne. The Uni file made about 30whp more and spooled faster. No reason the Eurodyne can't do that with modification but for an out of the box file UNI might be tuned better.


Heres some of my results; a log sniplet at 6900 RPM. Fueling is almost dead on and this was with the original incorrect injector constant. And a nice laggy, decently smooth power curve on the dyno. (stock file timing).


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Trying to work my issues out with PAG on changes.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Is there ANYONE in here that is running TB bigger than stock that has a flawless running car software-wise on an MAF-less tune?


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

In all honesty its been 2 summers now and my car doesn't idle for crap... Had 870's first summer and this one have 910cc bosch inj... If I didn't have so much money in the Eurodyne with Maestro, and If I could do it all over again, I would of went standalone... There are a few places within a few hours of me that have tuned Audi/VW cars on standalone... Not too many people have experience with Maestro nor do they wanna touch it.... Oh well there is always next summer:laugh:


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

mescaline said:


> Is there ANYONE in here that is running TB bigger than stock that has a flawless running car software-wise on an MAF-less tune?


how flawless? i only get idle dips here and their. My car runs pretty much perfect except for some idle dips.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Flawless...as in stock-like. I have yet to find a person that has one lol


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## PassatMrT (Oct 10, 2009)

I thought I'd add my 2c regarding a problem and solution in case anyone else has the same issue. 

I'm running maestro on an AEB (heavily modded T3/T4 60-1). Anyway, I had installed a VR6 TB and was having some issues with the idle (still am, in case anyone knows how to fix that). I went to reflash my ECU and found that I couldn't. I'd either get a 'Init failed' or cannot pass security, leave ignition in on position and try in 10 minutes. 

So here's the Coles Notes version; after 3 days of tearing my hair out, I managed to figure out that it was a combination of stereo K kine interference and using the wrong comm port on my laptop. I guess Maestro is very finicky about using the same port all the time. So in the end I pulled the K line from my stereo (didn't need it anyway) used the right comm port and bingo, problem solved. 

Anyway, hopes this helps if anyone else runs into the same issue.


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> how flawless? i only get idle dips here and their. My car runs pretty much perfect except for some idle dips.


how my 50 trim is but its only the 630 mafless file but a lil tweaked


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

mescaline said:


> Is there ANYONE in here that is running TB bigger than stock that has a flawless running car software-wise on an MAF-less tune?


BAHAHAHAHAHAHA that is funny!



PassatMrT said:


> I thought I'd add my 2c regarding a problem and solution in case anyone else has the same issue.
> 
> I'm running maestro on an AEB (heavily modded T3/T4 60-1). Anyway, I had installed a VR6 TB and was having some issues with the idle (still am, in case anyone knows how to fix that). I went to reflash my ECU and found that I couldn't. I'd either get a 'Init failed' or cannot pass security, leave ignition in on position and try in 10 minutes.
> 
> ...


Good info thanks! I had problems flashing the other day also, I'll try some of this out. I'm on win7 and a Dell xps 15 BTW.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

got my ECU back in the car and its functional again


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

I think I got my 80mm TB 630cc file running pretty good now. Long term fuel trims are within +/- 3% or so.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

is there a list anywhere of people you can go to and PAY them to dial in and tune maestro???

i know of one guy, kevin black, aka lugnuts. id just use him, but i will be moving to the midwest and probably then to california. i really dont want to "learn" it myself.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Has anyone with stock displacement/throttle body substantially modified the base 630cc VE table?


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

*injector constant*

so while at normal driving just cruising my a/f is 16.1-18.0, my question is do i need to raise my ic or lower it to richen up my a/f?


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

d18tfoltz said:


> so while at normal driving just cruising my a/f is 16.1-18.0, my question is do i need to raise my ic or lower it to richen up my a/f?


constantly? with in a second or 2 your trims should be adjusting for this sorta thing.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

not if the IC and BVC are that far off your fuel trims will max out at 22% + or -


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

speed51133! said:


> is there a list anywhere of people you can go to and PAY them to dial in and tune maestro???
> 
> i know of one guy, kevin black, aka lugnuts. id just use him, but i will be moving to the midwest and probably then to california. i really dont want to "learn" it myself.


If your anywhere near Minneapolis Stellar Autowerks is a dist for eurodyne and they use MAP performance to dynotune people with Eurodyne... I have heard mixed reviews about there tuning skills so I have not got it done there... I've been playing with IC and BVC along with minimum injector pulsewidth (temin) and am *finally* getting my idle better


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

I have a question since I'm on here, am I correct in thinking the bigger the injector the smaller your TEMIN should be... Example the base file had low injector pulsewidth at .75 Mmmboost is on ID 725 and his Temin is at .35.... I tried .50 and car ran better but not perfect and now I'm at .35 and its even better, should I try lower since I have 910cc Injectors???


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

One-Eight GTI said:


> If your anywhere near Minneapolis Stellar Autowerks is a dist for eurodyne and they use MAP performance to dynotune people with Eurodyne... I have heard mixed reviews about there tuning skills so I have not got it done there... I've been playing with IC and BVC along with minimum injector pulsewidth (temin) and am *finally* getting my idle better


http://www.maperformance.com/

this place???? i bought some pie cut bends from them, look awesome and great price. website doesnt say anything about vw/audi tuning, or ANY tuning.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

speed51133! said:


> http://www.maperformance.com/
> 
> this place???? i bought some pie cut bends from them, look awesome and great price. website doesnt say anything about vw/audi tuning, or ANY tuning.


http://www.maperformance.com/services.html


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

speed51133! said:


> http://www.maperformance.com/
> 
> this place???? i bought some pie cut bends from them, look awesome and great price. website doesnt say anything about vw/audi tuning, or ANY tuning.


I assure you as Stellar is like next to the place and if you buy Eurodyne from Stellar they would send you to MAP to mget tuned as Stellar doesn't tune:thumbup: I went there in person and talked to the dude that tunes


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

did the dude know about eurodyne and maestro? website doesnt mention it, but does mention tons of other ecu systems.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Yes when I went to Eurowerks this summer I talked to a guy that had his BT 1.8T tuned by them and also the owner of Stellar had his car tuned by them with Maestro... So I know that they have done a few... Best bet would be E-mail them and find out from them... I know its like 180 bucks an hour to dyno tune, minimum of 3 hrs and he will not show you anything (its how he makes a living so understandable) but maybe his prices have changed so contact them and see what the going rate is


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Anyone seeing drastic running changes w/ humidity levels on mafless flashes? I have a slew of problems that really only exhibit themselves when it's wet and humid out, yet in today's cooler and dryer air, the car's a champ. I wonder if adding a maf would help?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

screwball said:


> Anyone seeing drastic running changes w/ humidity levels on mafless flashes? I have a slew of problems that really only exhibit themselves when it's wet and humid out, yet in today's cooler and dryer air, the car's a champ. I wonder if adding a maf would help?


No issues whats so ever in wet or humid weather. Only once did the car exhibit some "misfiring" symptoms and that was driving down to H20i in a monsoon of water (only at full throttle).

I have been having some issues with the cold weather. All cold-start related I believe. The car will pop out the exhaust everytime I lift throttle until its warmed up.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Play with your cold start enrichment map.

I kinda wrote a little program that examines Maestro log file and spits out the Main fuel correction map in .bin format so I can import it directly in Maestro. It actually works pretty good and is a bit more precise than Maestro which doesn't seem to be re-calculating "average value" very well. It adds new values only when jumping from cell to cell. I notified Chris about this.

So far I gotta have default value in "Main fuel correction" (1.0001/128) for this to work but I think I am gonna expand it so it can accept the map in .bin format and apply changes to it directly. I bet a few long drives with lots of mixed driving styles would smooth it out really good : )


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

so i bought maestro!
can you share tuning maps?
i read that you can only open up your base map, and not others.
is this to prevent sharing of base maps?


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

You can open any map. What setup do you have? What turbo, injectors etc. Base file you get should work for you pretty good.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Hey guys weirdd tthing happened with my maestro setup. Cruising down for a weekend getaway the turnpike was flowing at 80-90mph. At those speeds rpms are up there. Car was driving normal and then I looked over at my wideband and I see 13.5:1. It wouldn't budge from there. I'm thinking maybe I popped a coupler off or bad exhaust leak.... Nothing. The car idled like that as well. After I looked around for afew minutes it returned to stoich and was perfectly normal. 

My only thinking is that at those speeds an consistant 3500 rpms the exhaust temps were a steady1250-1300*. Car possibly thought it was too hot via the o2 sensor and started richening it up? Other than that I'm stumped. Oh and once I got back on the road at the same speeds and rpms it was back to stoich. Not that Im super concerned but more curious.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

speed51133! said:


> so i bought maestro!
> can you share tuning maps?
> i read that you can only open up your base map, and not others.


It's your hardware that locks to the car. Not the tuning maps. Swap away. Collect 'em all.


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## Hansi80 (Jun 15, 2009)

So, I have a suggestion..
Create a site like this to share files for all Maestro users..


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## Hansi80 (Jun 15, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> It's your hardware that locks to the car. Not the tuning maps. Swap away. Collect 'em all.


Yeah, but don't flash a file to your car with a different ECU code than your car


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

sounds like a plan. like a reposatory with all sorts of files.
i have a base map for a gt3076r on 630cc injectors with 70mm throttle on an awp ecu.

available to download here:
http://www.multiupload.com/KW0TN8UXGR

you can all upload to www.multiupload.com and get a link to download. no registration needed.

id like a file for the stock throttle and a 57trim t3/t4 and 630cc injectors


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

That seem to be the map for 1000cc injectors. BVC doesn't match Siemens 630cc profile... neither does injector constant...


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

well thats what i was told (got it used)
you have a 630cc map??


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Did you try to use this? Yea I got one 630cc/70mm map from Chris but I don't think it works very well. I have tried it.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

no i did not try. i havent installed anything yet, and still have the stock turbo setup.

what do you have done to your car? 
like i said, i just want a base map for 630cc injectors, awp ecu, and t3/4 turbo. full 3in exhaust, but stock otherwise.


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## Hansi80 (Jun 15, 2009)

OK, I've made a site, contact me if you want a file added. I'm not very good at making websites, if someone good wants to do something feel free to 

I just think it's a good idea to get a map archive going, so everyone can take a look at other files and hopefully learn something from it.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Anyone who was having trouble with o2 correction freezing see this thread.

http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1036&p=2620#p2620


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## aaronsoccer4 (Mar 29, 2011)

qqw,[;PP


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

*a/f way off*

im having a real problem in trying to get my a/f's good here is block 032: -2.1, 10.9. doesnt look that bad but at idle my a/f is 12.1-13.0 and at normal driving my a/f never goes above 16.0. but at wot my a/f is dead on at full boost i get 12.5-11.0 from 4400rpm to 7000rpm. i dont have any idea what going on here. i have new plugs, coils, and o2 sensor, and no codes. is there something i can do with maestro to fix this?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

d18tfoltz said:


> im having a real problem in trying to get my a/f's good here is block 032: -2.1, 10.9. doesnt look that bad but at idle my a/f is 12.1-13.0 and at normal driving my a/f never goes above 16.0. but at wot my a/f is dead on at full boost i get 12.5-11.0 from 4400rpm to 7000rpm. i dont have any idea what going on here. i have new plugs, coils, and o2 sensor, and no codes. is there something i can do with maestro to fix this?


Are your injectors properly configured?


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

yes i used injector wizard, i have 870cc incector


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

d18tfoltz said:


> yes i used injector wizard, i have 870cc incector


Play around with the injector latency table. Shortening the pulse width will get you there


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Play around with the injector latency table. Shortening the pulse width will get you there


in the minimum injector pulswidth i have 0.749427, so your saying i should lower this number if yes hoe much should be taken based on whats hapening with my a/f?

should anything else be changed like injection correction or anything else?


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

d18tfoltz said:


> in the minimum injector pulswidth i have 0.749427, so your saying i should lower this number if yes hoe much should be taken based on whats hapening with my a/f?
> 
> should anything else be changed like injection correction or anything else?


Highlight the bottom row and start by shortening in 5% increments. Check to see what that it does each time. So, yes you are shortening this number. You can go too far where it will start exhibiting strange idle characteristics. The 870s have a minimum allowable pw range so you cannot be close to that either


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Highlight the bottom row and start by shortening in 5% increments. Check to see what that it does each time. So, yes you are shortening this number. You can go too far where it will start exhibiting strange idle characteristics. The 870s have a minimum allowable pw range so you cannot be close to that either


there are no rows, its just a number?


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

d18tfoltz said:


> there are no rows, its just a number?


Bring up the bvc table. Voltage is the top row and pw is the bottom


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Hey d18tfoltz when your idle is at 12 afr are you getting 02 corrections at that time???? Also try reading this, http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1003&start=30 it helps alot getting block 032 values closer to zero


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Just noticed you need to dial in you ic. Lazy Sunday... If you want to do the bvc math to dial in your idle, then you can and subtract it from your bvc. The thing is, the 870s are notoriously sloppy injectors so you will have to manually try to dial them in after all the calcs. I think the 10deg narrow angle spray pattern of these injectors are not ideal for the intake port shape


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Just noticed you need to dial in you ic. Lazy Sunday... If you want to do the bvc math to dial in your idle, then you can and subtract it from your bvc. The thing is, the 870s are notoriously sloppy injectors so you will have to manually try to dial them in after all the calcs. I think the 10deg narrow angle spray pattern of these injectors are not ideal for the intake port shape


yes sir, im ok with my bvc values for now my main concern is my getting my ic good. whats the best way to do this.



One-Eight GTI said:


> Hey d18tfoltz when your idle is at 12 afr are you getting 02 corrections at that time???? Also try reading this, http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1003&start=30 it helps alot getting block 032 values closer to zero


thanks for that info thats what im looking at when you sent it.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Im on an iPad now, so I don't know your default constant but after doing a little bit of math, Punch in .04930 as your new constant and see what that does


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Im on an iPad now, so I don't know your default constant but after doing a little bit of math, Punch in .04930 as your new constant and see what that does


allright heres what i did, correct me if im wrong: my values in block 032 -2.1 10.9 and my current IC is 0.038

so for bvc i did -2.1x0.038= -0.0798. i rounded up and subtracted 0.080 off the values in bvc

next for IC i dont remember the exact calculation but i got a new IC of 0.041618
heres the calculation: 0.037518x10.9%=0.004089462, then 0.004089462+0.037518=0.041618
0.041618= new IC.
hopefully i did this right


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

What is your displacement?


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> What is your displacement?


its stock 1781cc


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Sorry, perhaps my calcs are off, but my default ic is .04464. Worth a shot


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry, perhaps my calcs are off, but my default ic is .04464. Worth a shot


well i think i figures it out, it was a bad o2 sensor. i made the changes and nothing then i switched out o2 sensors and went for a drive and everything is running good. thanks for all your help


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

d18tfoltz said:


> well i think i figures it out, it was a bad o2 sensor. i made the changes and nothing then i switched out o2 sensors and went for a drive and everything is running good. thanks for all your help


Ha, a bad 02 would just about.make anything that we do useless. Good stuff.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Good stuff.


:laugh:


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Ha, a bad 02 would just about.make anything that we do useless. Good stuff.


it that the truth, but the thing that pissed me off the most is i had no codes for a bad o2.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Just noticed you need to dial in you ic. Lazy Sunday... If you want to do the bvc math to dial in your idle, then you can and subtract it from your bvc. The thing is, the 870s are notoriously sloppy injectors so you will have to manually try to dial them in after all the calcs. I think the 10deg narrow angle spray pattern of these injectors are not ideal for the intake port shape


yeah i've tried everything to get my 870's to idle smoothly and i can't.. getting id1000's soon hopefully


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

dubbin_boho said:


> yeah i've tried everything to get my 870's to idle smoothly and i can't.. getting id1000's soon hopefully


this is what im using now for the 870's and my idle is good, a bit rich but ok. also i put my idle to 1000.

http://file:///C:/Eurodyne/bvc.bin


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

ok now that i think i fixed one thing i have another question about logging and changing files. 

first thing is i logged a wot 3rd gear pull and with maestro logger and had a few concerns, with engine load, boost, and timing advanced. and how to adjust these maps

alright with engine load vs actual engine load which maps do i need to change to make these match: target filling, optimum engine torq? and i would put in the field that get traced with the logger what the actual is correct?

i guess i have the same question with the boost. 

with timing im getting 15.75 timing advance and a max of 1.50 in a couple cylinders my questing here is do i add to the numbers to raise the timing advance. ex: 7.500 to 8.500 a raise of 1.000 at 4040rpm and 216.1921.

sorry if any of this sounds stupid i just want to make sure of what im doing before i do it and blow my engine. thanks in advance for any help

heres my log if it helps http://file:///C:/Eurodyne/2011_11_13-17.36.55.DataLog.csv


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

make a google account so you have a place to upload the files, the links dont work


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

Dub-Nub said:


> make a google account so you have a place to upload the files, the links dont work


[email protected]#$ sorry here try this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aik8R7O0bI0CdDFYQXpwdjhra19pQUg5ZzI1bnQ1a0E

one thing im concerned about is the boost, on my boost gauge i get a max of 18psi but on maestro logger is goes up to 20psi. should i be worried? i have a mbc it should be set at 16-18psi.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

d18tfoltz said:


> this is what im using now for the 870's and my idle is good, a bit rich but ok. also i put my idle to 1000.
> 
> http://file:///C:/Eurodyne/bvc.bin


can you upload this somewhere? i have my idle at 950.. it just bounces rich to lean and never settles


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

dubbin_boho said:


> can you upload this somewhere? i have my idle at 950.. it just bounces rich to lean and never settles


im at work right now but ill try when i get off


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

yesterday was the first time in a good year i took my TT sporting maestro 7 for an run and i was able to really hammer it hard. ran great but under max acceleration im getting over boost problems. if i drive normal all is fine but when going all out it just builds and builds and builds boost i had to back off once i noticed my gauge hit 30lbs ........ guess its time to start doing some reading and checking hoses :facepalm: any how i updated my software (been almost a year) and see some new thing called boost manager but im not finding much info about what its meant for or how to use it. could someone shoot me an link to info about this? its nice to come back into the loop and see added features just sucks learning about them while being a bit in the dark.

thanks


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

d18tfoltz said:


> first thing is i logged a wot 3rd gear pull and with maestro logger and had a few concerns, with engine load, boost, and timing advanced. and how to adjust these maps......[/URL]


Your concern should be your fueling. The last thing you want to do is attempt to add more timing. You either have set up your injection way wrong or have some serious issues. Recalculate your injection, dial in your block o32 numbers, reset or fix your main fuel correction map (Your o2 sensor is timing out-I just posted about this). You don't need to add more timing, your car will do this once its running more proper. I do not fully understand yet how to lower requested load (VE, boost duty?) or if there is any benefit to lowering it fit your boost curve. You do not want to tinker with the target filling & optimum torque maps unless you really know what your doing.




d18tfoltz said:


> sone thing im concerned about is the boost, on my boost gauge i get a max of 18psi but on maestro logger is goes up to 20psi. should i be worried? i have a mbc it should be set at 16-18psi.


Boost is measured at the map, is your MAP before your intercooler? You could be seeing a FMIC pressure drop, sensory/boost gauge inaccuracy or post map boost leak. OUt of curiosity what turbo are you running?




carsluTT said:


> yesterday was the first time in a good year i took my TT sporting maestro 7 for an run and i was able to really hammer it hard. ran great but under max acceleration im getting over boost problems. if i drive normal all is fine but when going all out it just builds and builds and builds boost i had to back off once i noticed my gauge hit 30lbs ........ guess its time to start doing some reading and checking hoses :facepalm: any how i updated my software (been almost a year) and see some new thing called boost manager but im not finding much info about what its meant for or how to use it. could someone shoot me an link to info about this? its nice to come back into the loop and see added features just sucks learning about them while being a bit in the dark.
> 
> thanks


The boost manager is software for a seperate boost controller offered by Eurodyne. If you can't find leaks your boost PID maps may need editing.


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

oh snaps!......... me want some Boost Manager Plus+, odd its not listed for sale yet


http://www.eurodyne.ca/blog/index.php/2011/08/30/coming-soon-to-our-online-store/

in the mean time ill dig into some boost PID maps.

:beer:


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

carsluTT said:


> oh snaps!......... me want some Boost Manager Plus+, odd its not listed for sale yet
> 
> 
> http://www.eurodyne.ca/blog/index.php/2011/08/30/coming-soon-to-our-online-store/
> ...


Check boost duy first I forgot to mention that. It says right on the map description it may need edited due to your wastegate spring pressure. :thumbup:


----------



## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

> TooLFan46n2;74502500Boost is measured at the map, is your MAP before your intercooler? You could be seeing a FMIC pressure drop, sensory/boost gauge inaccuracy or post map boost leak. OUt of curiosity what turbo are you running?


i have a pte 5857


----------



## 07wolfsburg (Mar 7, 2008)

carsluTT said:


> oh snaps!......... me want some Boost Manager Plus+, odd its not listed for sale yet
> 
> 
> http://www.eurodyne.ca/blog/index.php/2011/08/30/coming-soon-to-our-online-store/
> ...


Its definitely available :thumbup:
Just had one installed on my MKv


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

running a aeb head, stock cams, 70mm throttle body, 630cc seimens, hta3082r.......looking to swap alpha n and throttle vs. airflow maps with someone who has a similar setup running well......my problem is that i can get it running awesome and idling great by adjusting injector constant and bvc accordingly but then everything over 10 percent throttle runs rich and the long term fuel trim pulls out like 25 percent.....i beleive that its my alpha n but before i go buy a maf to tune with im taking a shot here to collect some different tables :thumbup:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

PM me your email dude, I'll send you a couple files you can cut and paste.

J


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

anyone have any experience calibrating the MAF profile in Maestro? I put in a TT225 MAF and selected that profile, but its off and runs like crap until the o2 kicks in and starts correcting. It's reading low, as the o2 shows its running lean and needs to add fuel. When I unplug it, idles like a champ


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

xxsur3shotxx said:


> anyone have any experience calibrating the MAF profile in Maestro? I put in a TT225 MAF and selected that profile, but its off and runs like crap until the o2 kicks in and starts correcting. It's reading low, as the o2 shows its running lean and needs to add fuel. When I unplug it, idles like a champ


Did you use the TT225 sensor in the maf body? Also did you reflash the file after you selected the MAF (I know dumb question but I had to ask), finally did you clear your fault codes to clear any adaptations?

I was going to run a maf on my setup, but than I realized I don't have a DV setup so this is interesting to see how this works out for you.


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I'm having a huge issue reading my ECU from the Eurodyne flash software. Although I have no problem vagcom'ing the car. Anyone have this issue before?


----------



## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> Did you use the TT225 sensor in the maf body? Also did you reflash the file after you selected the MAF (I know dumb question but I had to ask), finally did you clear your fault codes to clear any adaptations?
> 
> I was going to run a maf on my setup, but than I realized I don't have a DV setup so this is interesting to see how this works out for you.


Yes, it is a complete TT225 MAF, sensor and housing. I selected the profile and reflashed, cleared all the fault codes, and plumbed the dv back into the intake. ( it was sitting with the dump port just open before)


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

DougLoBue said:


> I'm having a huge issue reading my ECU from the Eurodyne flash software. Although I have no problem vagcom'ing the car. Anyone have this issue before?


explain reading?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

xxsur3shotxx said:


> Yes, it is a complete TT225 MAF, sensor and housing. I selected the profile and reflashed...


Which TT225 MAF do you have? Because, guess what? There are different ones for the earlier narrowband and later wideband ones. Check in with C. Tapp and confirm the correct part number for the airflow maps he's generated.


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Which TT225 MAF do you have? Because, guess what? There are different ones for the earlier narrowband and later wideband ones. Check in with C. Tapp and confirm the correct part number for the airflow maps he's generated.


ahh. I was not aware of that fact. It is the one for the AMU engine code Part # 06A906461E


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

screwball said:


> explain reading?


I cannot preform the initial ECU read to email the file to Chris and recieve a flash file back.

I'm working with a 01' TT 225 with a wideband conversion and a VW AWP wideband ECU.

I've tried pulling fuses for the cluster & radio. Tried even connecting a K line wire straight from the ECU pin 43 to OBD2 connector pin 7- zero luck. When I run vagcom scans I have no codes except for the TB, CTS & MAP not being plugged in and the generic cluster to ECU communication issue that we get from using a swapped ECU.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

and that's on any connection speed?


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

screwball said:


> and that's on any connection speed?


Tried all three connection speeds and two different VW AWP ECU's. Also tried disabling fast initialization.

Would it be of any benefit to me to use an Audi TT wideband ECU? I'm trying to buy one now.


----------



## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Which TT225 MAF do you have? Because, guess what? There are different ones for the earlier narrowband and later wideband ones. Check in with C. Tapp and confirm the correct part number for the airflow maps he's generated.


as it turns out, the maps are generated using the wideband sensor from the BEA engine code, which is not the one I have. He told me I could try to rescale the map, but hasn't gotten back yet with a method of doing so. I'll update on how it goes. Otherwise, I'll be buying the correct MAF


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

xxsur3shotxx said:


> as it turns out, the maps are generated using the wideband sensor from the BEA engine code, which is not the one I have. He told me I could try to rescale the map, but hasn't gotten back yet with a method of doing so. I'll update on how it goes. Otherwise, I'll be buying the correct MAF


save urself the trouble go with the hitachi b5 s4 maf and do the simple conversion.....its more reliable than bosch sensors i beleive and has higher capabilities.


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> save urself the trouble go with the hitachi b5 s4 maf and do the simple conversion.....its more reliable than bosch sensors i beleive and has higher capabilities.


I'm assuming this is the hitatchi sensor profiled in maestro? Is it 3" OD?


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

xxsur3shotxx said:


> I'm assuming this is the hitatchi sensor profiled in maestro? Is it 3" OD?


yes its just a b5 s4 sensor i think in maestro it says hitachi 3.5........not sure if it comes 3 or 3.5 but its well worth it either ay even if u have to buy a 3.5 " housing.......another option is the 4.2 v8 maf which ive heard good about


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

look into vast performance's hitachi maf conversion for the b5 s4......same install for the most part....call them up and see if its a 3.5inch housing or not.....for 200 dollars its not a bad deal for the maf and harness.

https://vastperformance.com/index.p...ch-to-hitachi-maf-sensor-conversion-2-7t.html


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> look into vast performance's hitachi maf conversion for the b5 s4......same install for the most part....call them up and see if its a 3.5inch housing or not.....for 200 dollars its not a bad deal for the maf and harness.
> 
> https://vastperformance.com/index.p...ch-to-hitachi-maf-sensor-conversion-2-7t.html


good link. Thanks man.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Who's got 80mm TB with siemens 630cc and wants to try some file?


----------



## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

mescaline said:


> Who's got 80mm TB with siemens 630cc and wants to try some file?


i do on my shop mk4 jetta .. mafles??


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

For anyone that has any problems with their maestro freezing while logging, here is what I did and why.

I tried 2 different computers and got the same results. They were both freezing. I narrowed it down to the cord or the obd port itself. I did some reading online and other car people have had this problem and fixed it by putting Ferrite Choke Cores around their cable and OBD wires. Basically the frequency noises were making it freeze.

I put one choke core around the OBD wire bundle leading to the port, then put two on my maestro cable. THIS SOLVED THE PROBLEM. I get zero freezing after a ton of pulls WOT.

Here is a picture of what they look like.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

CASHBY III said:


> For anyone that has any problems with their maestro freezing while logging, here is what I did and why.
> 
> I tried 2 different computers and got the same results. They were both freezing. I narrowed it down to the cord or the obd port itself. I did some reading online and other car people have had this problem and fixed it by putting Ferrite Choke Cores around their cable and OBD wires. Basically the frequency noises were making it freeze.
> 
> ...


please link to these mysterious devices


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> please link to these mysterious devices


You can get them at radio shack for 3 bucks (comes with 2 in a pack).

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3012599


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

lol at mysterious devices........luckly ive never had freezing yet.....maybe a few glitches but good to know man


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Mine doesn't freeze when I use the power inverter to power the laptop while driving. If I let it run on battery power it will freeze.

Out of curiousity anyone try any logging with the latest version of eurodyne flash? I tried to do some today after work (had to update today as well), but now logviewer can't open the log files.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

mescaline said:


> Who's got 80mm TB with siemens 630cc and wants to try some file?


I do, but they won't be getting used for at least 6 months!  Any details?


----------



## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

sabbySC said:


> Mine doesn't freeze when I use the power inverter to power the laptop while driving. If I let it run on battery power it will freeze.
> 
> Out of curiousity anyone try any logging with the latest version of eurodyne flash? I tried to do some today after work (had to update today as well), but now logviewer can't open the log files.


True.. this is one thing i forgot to mention will work as well.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

mine never froze on me ever, but i did throw away the chord because the wires broke on the inside from bending to much.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Logviewer = no worky for me on recent logs as well. LV 5 is what I'm using.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

screwball said:


> Logviewer = no worky for me on recent logs as well. LV 5 is what I'm using.


likewise i just read em with excel


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Anyone share the Min Inj pulse width on 630cc? Just realized I'm running almost the exact value that came in my base file, which from reading is apparantly way to high.

I updated programs tuesday night and had no problems with V5 last night.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

CASHBY III said:


> For anyone that has any problems with their maestro freezing while logging, here is what I did and why.
> 
> I tried 2 different computers and got the same results. They were both freezing. I narrowed it down to the cord or the obd port itself. I did some reading online and other car people have had this problem and fixed it by putting Ferrite Choke Cores around their cable and OBD wires. Basically the frequency noises were making it freeze.
> 
> ...


Glad we made some progress with logging issues. This thread should be organized into a FAQ on Eurodyne's or even the TEX's 1.8t forum... I would do it myself but I havn't had free time to do so.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Anyone share the Min Inj pulse width on 630cc? Just realized I'm running almost the exact value that came in my base file, which from reading is apparantly way to high.
> 
> I updated programs tuesday night and had no problems with V5 last night.


I use 0.749427 for minimum injector pulsewidth (haven't modified it since I got the 630cc base file).

Min inj. pulsewidth: 0.749427
Injector constant: 0.049728


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Wow, I tried your values for IC Mescaline and my car had a heart attack. I kept loosing O2 correction at idle which results in stumbling from full rich to full lean back and forth...

Perhaps someone wants to look at this: http://www.mediafire.com/file/0aa2bfzcc6gzzu1/DNbase_12-1-11.tapp to see if I just didn't miss set something. 

630s
3bar
AEB head / RMR intake manifold
60mm Stock TB


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

John.. Weren't mescaline's settings for an 80mm TB?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I didn't use his whole flash, just the 630 IC levels. I went through 2qts of oil in 1500 miles...:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

I have a brief problem, my block 032 values keep getting scaled down but on boost the car is leaning out when i hit full spool thn goes back to my 11.8 afr after... no hardware issues


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

screwball said:


> I didn't use his whole flash, just the 630 IC levels. I went through 2qts of oil in 1500 miles...:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:


Fúck dude... That turdbo is fúcked


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

mescaline said:


> I use 0.749427 for minimum injector pulsewidth (haven't modified it since I got the 630cc base file).
> 
> Min inj. pulsewidth: 0.749427
> Injector constant: 0.049728


I'm running an IC of .051837, I just lowered my MIN. PUlsewidth down to .544068 from the default. To early to say for sure (15 miles) but my block 032 is around -2%, -2% (was -5%). I have left the BVC values at the default ones calculated in the injector wizard. Idle is pretty good, with some light bouncing on early morning coldstart.


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

:thumbup:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I tried .051XXX as well, but my car no likey. It's set somewhere in the .047XXX range right now, but I've got other issues to tend to with all this oil disappearing. I finally get good hardware on the car and it's going to sh!t...

47,000 miles on a Garrett JB turbo at 20+lbs of boost, anyone else running that many and still healthy?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

My 60 trim JB garret didn't last too long, started to smoke. They are easy to rebuilt


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

If its just the turbo its looking like a dbb chra will go in then, unless i can find a 3071r for less.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Oh this sh!t just gets better and better. I go to reflash the car and what happens? It immobilizes my ecu so now the car's totally useless. Pulled battery cable for 20mins - no go, pulled main ecu leads for 10 mins - no go. 


For anyone in or around Eastern PA - Evans tuning will tune your car using Maestro. I don't know all the details, but that cracker knows his stuff.

ECUs definitely not bricked, it needs to get immo defeated (again) remotely though.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Why did you disconnect the battery? Did flashing process fail? You could have just restarted the flashing process. It wouldn't brick your ECU. I think it's screwed up now because of checksum errors... it won't boot up.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

No, i tried reflashing several times, a short error saying " resend " popped up each time. It went exactly through the motions of a successful reflash, it's just now locking me out. Pulling the ecu leads and the battery are suggestions usually given if you brick the ecu prior to mailing it off to them for recovery. Dubnub went through this recently and those were instructions from Tapp.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

My car starts, the immobilizer is going off and doing it's job. Why? I have no fuggin clue, but that's what's happening.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Happened to my buddy email chris for immo defeat.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

If you car starts then dies that means your ECU is not bricked. It gets bricked when you have absolutely no communication with it and get error messages that say something like 'Cannot connect, try again' when attempting to read settings.


----------



## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

whats everyone setting there 2 step too?


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Posted this over on the eurodyne forum gonna try here as well, any help or idea appreciated:

Okay this has been driving me crazy, I'm hoping someone on this board can even offer a start to find the solution because I'm really at a loss.

Stock turbo every bolt on in the book ported and polished turbo(no w/m)

As far as I can gather there are 4 maps to actively effect the fuel curve at WOT.


1st fuel acceleration This map effects the curve when both throttle and load are increasing
2nd ???????????????????? This map effects the curve when throttle is at 100% but load is still increasing
3rd Power enrichment This map effect the curve when both throttle and load are at max value but the EGT threshold has not been passed to active WOT lambda
4th WOT lambda Effecting the map at max load, throttle, and after EGT threshold has been reached.

What is map 2 or how to do get Power enrichment to effect the curve with rising load rates?


I've tried lowering my EGT threshold to 300*C (basically on all the time) and all that did is cut out Power enrichment and go right to WOT lambda but there is still the problem area where loads are rising but throttle is pegged at 100 what ends up happening when I floor it is this. I also raised it to 500*C same issue.

I floor it, fuel acceleration map takes over and dumps fuel, as throttle valves approach 100% this enrichment begins to fade and the AFR begin to approach 14.7-15.5 then again drops down once load and throttle are both at max value.

any ideas from anyone would be appreciated.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

screwball said:


> Oh this sh!t just gets better and better. I go to reflash the car and what happens? It immobilizes my ecu so now the car's totally useless. Pulled battery cable for 20mins - no go, pulled main ecu leads for 10 mins - no go. I'm sure the ECUs bricked and I've got to spend $80 to get it up to Sunshine and back in Canadia to blow on it so it works again. I love you Eurodyne Maestro Suite.
> 
> Is anyone selling a Uni ECU?
> 
> For anyone in or around Eastern PA - Evans tuning will tune your car using Maestro. I don't know all the details, but that cracker knows his stuff.



How about a under $2k plug & play TRUE standalone that doesn't ever "brick" and has full datalogging, easy tuning and full motorsport features? 

/Maestro.


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> How about a under $2k plug & play TRUE standalone that doesn't ever "brick" and has full datalogging, easy tuning and full motorsport features?
> 
> /Maestro.


Nah...$2k is way too much for something you still gotta tune yourself...and I bet it would be just as complicated to do as with Maestro...if not worse.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Pete you're selling that Vipec ECU? I still have state inspection to try and wiggle through, with standalone I'd be totally dependent on finding a dirty sticker or faking a sticker.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Cryser said:


> As far as I can gather there are 4 maps to actively effect the fuel curve at WOT.
> 
> 
> 1st fuel acceleration This map effects the curve when both throttle and load are increasing
> ...


The EGT sensor reading determines the fuel map being used. If the sensor readings are "safe" the ECU will ignore a lot of those other maps/parameters and apply default Lambda values. I've found that no amount of tinkering with those maps will affect A/F mixtures. The EGT sensor has primacy. If you want more manual control, you need to turn off the EGT sensor input.


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Yeah I think i got a handle on it now gonna be loading up a map before I head off to work and if all goes as I believe it should I'll be controling Lambda through LAMFA(Power Enrichment) and have turned off the BTS map which is labeled Full load Lambda in maestro.

I'm just hoping I fully understand the axis of LAMFA
Y is RPM
X is % of torque related to what is being requested so basically actual boost related to requested

oh well I'll in an a hour here =P


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Cryser, are you talking about Maestro or just tuning ME7 in general? Because Eurodyne did it a bit differently. 

By the way there is no EGT sensor in AWP engines.


----------



## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

mescaline said:


> Cryser, are you talking about Maestro or just tuning ME7 in general? Because Eurodyne did it a bit differently.
> 
> By the way there is no EGT sensor in AWP engines.


its true but i thought the o2 sensor has a temp sender that controls before and after threshold.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

screwball said:


> Pete you're selling that Vipec ECU? I still have state inspection to try and wiggle through, with standalone I'd be totally dependent on finding a dirty sticker or faking a sticker.


Well, true, but these days the chip emmissions passes aren't working so hot anyways.... I know all my local guys had to go register in a county with no emmisions. I have Maestro on dave's car for many of the same reasons- not wanting to tear up the car, wanting the A/C dash, etc to work... This new plug in option will save all of that and it would be very fast to plug in a stock ecu anyways as you maintain the stock harness. What is coming is a true plug & play, not a wire in box with a custom harness... 

Tuning standalone is 10000000000x easier then tuning maestro haha. Way way way faster too...


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

if someone has the 1000cc E85 file they may send it to me 

Ill stroke my block to 2008cc and run E85 over winter. Thatll keep me busy... 

:wave:


----------



## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Well, true, but these days the chip emmissions passes aren't working so hot anyways.... I know all my local guys had to go register in a county with no emmisions. I have Maestro on dave's car for many of the same reasons- not wanting to tear up the car, wanting the A/C dash, etc to work... This new plug in option will save all of that and it would be very fast to plug in a stock ecu anyways as you maintain the stock harness. What is coming is a true plug & play, not a wire in box with a custom harness...
> 
> Tuning standalone is 10000000000x easier then tuning maestro haha. Way way way faster too...


more info on this new plug and play option ??


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Well, true, but these days the chip emmissions passes aren't working so hot anyways.... I know all my local guys had to go register in a county with no emmisions. I have Maestro on dave's car for many of the same reasons- not wanting to tear up the car, wanting the A/C dash, etc to work... This new plug in option will save all of that and it would be very fast to plug in a stock ecu anyways as you maintain the stock harness. What is coming is a true plug & play, not a wire in box with a custom harness...
> 
> Tuning standalone is 10000000000x easier then tuning maestro haha. Way way way faster too...


How so? Most of maps in Maestro you gotta tune in standalone as well. To shell out 3k for a tune is just insane.

Coming up with standalone is like beating a dead horse. We already have a standalone-like option that has long-term adaptation abilities and everything else that other standalones offer. You wanna make money? Come up with tunes on ECUs we already have. You can't? Leave it to the people that can. Just don't come up with a product that is worse than ME7 and ask for more money than what it costs to make ME7 work.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Cant you tune standalone while you are driving?


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Vdubed13 said:


> whats everyone setting there 2 step too?


4000 rpm for me


----------



## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> 4000 rpm for me


On my k03 set it at 2500 on this turbo at 4000


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Cryser said:


> Yeah I think i got a handle on it now gonna be loading up a map before I head off to work and if all goes as I believe it should I'll be controling Lambda through LAMFA(Power Enrichment) and have turned off the BTS map which is labeled Full load Lambda in maestro.
> 
> I'm just hoping I fully understand the axis of LAMFA
> Y is RPM
> ...


Why in the world are you trying to do that? That's not the way it's designed to work.


----------



## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

Vdubed13 said:


> whats everyone setting there 2 step too?


4000

Just to play a bit, when I first got it. But I stay away from it. It's my understanding that it eats O2 sensors.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Tapp fixed me up, we had to re-immo defeat the ecu with his help. Car's purring right now although it's barely adapted to the flash.


----------



## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

xxsur3shotxx said:


> 4000
> 
> Just to play a bit, when I first got it. But I stay away from it. It's my understanding that it eats O2 sensors.


I feel u had mine at 3800 awhile back but don't like driving with it... But its fun to.mess with ppl haha and I've done a few launches with it but my tranny doesn't like it


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

screwball said:


> Tapp fixed me up, we had to re-immo defeat the ecu with his help. Car's purring right now although it's barely adapted to the flash.


Glad you got everything fixed =)



> Why in the world are you trying to do that? That's not the way it's designed to work.


It actually is working quite well hear me out here, this is just what I figured out if I'm wrong I would like to know.

This is the whole theory behind this. I'm in a full bolt on Ported and Polished K03s no w/m atm.

The way Maestro is labeled and set up to doing fueling is using the EGT protection map as a full throttle lambda map. The trigger being 2 things, EGT have passed the set threshold and your requested and actual loads are matched(full load). The problem I had was after the fuel enrichment from the acceleration fuel map stopped effecting the fuel trim at WOT(TPS 100%) the fade off from that map wasn't enough for the car to get to full load and activate the Full load lambda map before having the fuel trim lean out to around 14.7-15.3 at full boost. It wasn't the EGT portion of the flag I was having trouble with it was the full load part... I was requesting "too much" load that the car couldn't get it up fast enough for that fade off from accel fuel to transition to full load.

I could at this point lower my target filling values but I didn't see why I should be limited on the amount of load I should be able to request simply because it takes my car too long to get up to that number.

So I really started looking into LAMFA(Power enrichment), now this map is disabled form both the factory and in maestro. You can see it and activate it if you want but at least on my file this map was not effecting the fuel trim at all.

Here is where I started going off data I found on some ME7 calibration forums that collaborated and made sense with the problems i was having and the data presented to me in the logs.

The X-axis of Power enrichment is Values from the Accelerator pedal map, NOT pedal % but the actual requested torque value on the map. I believe the formula is actual torque/requested torque x 100 for a percentage

The Y-axis of Power enrichment is RPM

Then to get lambda values to fill the map I started with the last column and found what rpm I hit max boost and targeted for 12.5 found where I started to spool up targeted 12.8 and did the rest of that column like that, then filled in the other columns as such, if anyone wants to look at the map I can send it to ya.

After that to make sure the map was doing what I wanted I disabled the Full load lambda map by filling it with all 1.001 and setting the EGT threshold to 600*C

Now some of the theory might be off but with some minor tweaks to things on the road I've gotten to to work exactly as I expected it too. The car don't target below 14.7 unless the turbo is spool or I'm accelerating. The AFR is pretty solid there is no more getting lean quickly at full boost, also my timing seems to be a lot steadier and the car responds great.

Even if I'm wrong on how I set things up it got it to how I was expecting it to work and only require small tweaks to fall into line great.


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## vr6 nitrous (sweden) (Dec 18, 2002)

Dub-Nub said:


> Cant you tune standalone while you are driving?


Yes, why want something that cant do that

Vipec and Link is very good to afordable price


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

vr6 nitrous (sweden) said:


> Yes, why want something that cant do that
> 
> Vipec and Link is very good to afordable price


I wish you could tune me7 live that would be so legit.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

codergfx said:


> I wish you could tune me7 live that would be so legit.


it would be very nice, but the ECU itself is restricted and thats why you cant do it =/ ...i think


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

ddoes anyone know whether or not you can use an s4 map sensor in the a4.....i know some sensors are different sizes but do they have the same reading values.....i currently have a s4 map sensor on my 1.8t cause i had it laying around. not sure if its reading differently or not and causing some of my issues


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> ddoes anyone know whether or not you can use an s4 map sensor in the a4.....i know some sensors are different sizes but do they have the same reading values.....i currently have a s4 map sensor on my 1.8t cause i had it laying around. not sure if its reading differently or not and causing some of my issues


it's different. There's a separate profile scale in Maestro for the s4 MAF. Unplug it and see if your problems go away


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

cant unplud it because im mafless.....but how do you change the map profile


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

btw i mean map sensor not maf......maf is self explanatory lol obviously there different


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

mescaline said:


> Cryser, are you talking about Maestro or just tuning ME7 in general? Because Eurodyne did it a bit differently.
> 
> By the way there is no EGT sensor in AWP engines.


So you guys are saying Eurodyne rearranged how the fuel maps are correlated with another? I'm just curious because I have a simplified Bosch ME7.5 document that seems to state full throttle fueling is done by a map like LAMBTS that is derived of spark, fuel & load efficiencys.


@ cryser & mescaline

So If I'm understand correctly, your are saying a BOSCH me7 ECM utilizes power enrichment based on torque request & uses LAMBTS when in protection mode while a Eurodyne ECM uses "protection mode" as its primary fueling for full throttle?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

exactly Tool

The map in maestro labeled Full load lambda is the LAMBTS map which is a protection map for the EGT getting to high because VW ran this car at 14.7 on boost stock because of emissions.

Doing it this way is apparently fine with a stock exhaust because the Calculated EGT from the Front 02 sensor still accurate, once you swap out exhaust, this calculation gets thrown off which is way the EGT threshold is so low, because basically he always want that portion of the flag for the map on. The problem is you also have to hit full load for the map to begin control desired lambda. Also the EGT threshold sets off other maps and triggers some which mess with timing in the top end.

When I compared the ignition angle past about 4.5K I was getting an average of 3-4 degree more timing in the top end. 

The only problem with this way of tuning that I see once your past exhaust and intercooler is your 14.7 until full load... using LAMFA(power enrichment) your fuel curve follows your torque curve perfectly.

I'm not trying to say Chris Tapp is wrong and I'm better... it's really just a different way of getting to point B from Point A.

But case and point on the ability to do it is I currently have my car with the EGT threshold set at 600*C and the Full load lambda map filled with 1.001 and my car has never felt so good in between transition from off to on boost and the top end feels a lot more powerful. I'm using purely power enrichment and Acceleration fuel for fueling my car.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Cryser said:


> Glad you got everything fixed =)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually that is exactly how I had my k03 fueling setup same concept, because it would switch to full load map late I utilized power enrichment to whatever afr I needed it to be when on boost. Worked on e85 perfect aswell. But what is % torque exactly in relation to boost? 

Also I wanted to note to disable a map you have to set it to 1.0000 instead of 1.0001 read that info on Eurodyne forums.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Anyone running the larger Bosch EV14 injectors? 750s or 840/850s?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

screwball said:


> Anyone running the larger Bosch EV14 injectors? 750s or 840/850s?


I wonder how 850s idle


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

codergfx said:


> Actually that is exactly how I had my k03 fueling setup same concept, because it would switch to full load map late I utilized power enrichment to whatever afr I needed it to be when on boost. Worked on e85 perfect aswell. But what is % torque exactly in relation to boost?
> 
> Also I wanted to note to disable a map you have to set it to 1.0000 instead of 1.0001 read that info on Eurodyne forums.


%torque is just that the % of requested boost that you are currently at, I do believe this is only for positive pressure only because the first 1000 mbar read by the sensor the car isn't requesting any torque.

example:

2000 RPM Actual Boost 1500 Requested boost 2500

if I'm correct in my thinking that point would be at

X = 33.33333
Y = 2000

of the power enrichment map.

500/1500 = 33.3%

Codergfx how do you get the maestro maps to accept a true value of 1? if I try and set it to 1 it gives me 99.998 or something like that then adding 1% set it to 1.001? do you have to add like .5% or something?


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

codergfx said:


> I wonder how 850s idle


I have EV14's that are 750cc (866cc @ 4bar which is what i run). The car idles butter smooth. 

Have to check but rough numbers are .0425 for IC and .39 for min injector pulse width. Then for battery voltage compensation i just used the injector wizzard 750 profile.

car idles great. currently i am at .9 and .95ish for my long term fuel trims. about as perfect as it gets.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

CASHBY III said:


> I have EV14's that are 750cc (866cc @ 4bar which is what i run). The car idles butter smooth.
> 
> Have to check but rough numbers are .0425 for IC and .39 for min injector pulse width. Then for battery voltage compensation i just used the injector wizzard 750 profile.
> 
> car idles great. currently i am at .9 and .95ish for my long term fuel trims. about as perfect as it gets.


How much would I hVe to lower my
IC min pulse width going from 630cc to 750cc you think?



Cryser said:


> %torque is just that the % of requested boost that you are currently at, I do believe this is only for positive pressure only because the first 1000 mbar read by the sensor the car isn't requesting any torque.
> 
> example:
> 
> ...


I'll fiddle with it when I get home
Don't remember exactly or what map it was. But going back to requested boost the way my fueling is set up right now i can vary my boost without changing the fueling map because it goes off the full load lamba map. And because my boost hits later the egts have time to switch over to the protection map.


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

codergfx said:


> How much would I hVe to lower my
> IC min pulse width going from 630cc to 750cc you think?


 what is your setup? 

This is the formula I used to get my IC.

866.025cc/min calulated flow for operating pressure. 

866.025 x 0.684 = 592.3611g/min

actual engine displacement = 2008 cc = 2.008 L.
number of cylinders = 4

KRKTE = 50.2624*(2.008/4)/592.3611 = 0.0425951751


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

My IC is .553 it's higher then the one from the wizard because I am on e85. And how come Noone made a database for tune files yet? Doesn't sound to complicated.


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

codergfx said:


> My IC is .553 it's higher then the one from wizard because I am on e85.


ahh... not 100% sure what settings to go with using E85. how do your fuel trims look now?

Read page 4 of the injector wizard thread on the eurodyne forum. I used those calculations to further adjust my BVC and IC to get closer to ZERO on fuel trims.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Yea I did too that's why my IC is higher. My fuel trim is 1% idle and like 1-2% long fuel trim but reason IM asking is because IM going to try and run my 4 bar again to make my injectors 725cc or whatever it comes out to.


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

codergfx said:


> Yea I did too that's why my IC is higher. My fuel trim is 1% idle and like 1-2% long fuel trim


damn.. i wouldn't change a thing ahah. at that point it is just fine tuning with the main fuel correction map.


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

codergfx said:


> Yea I did too that's why my IC is higher. My fuel trim is 1% idle and like 1-2% long fuel trim but reason IM asking is because IM going to try and run my 4 bar again to make my injectors 725cc or whatever it comes out to.


oh ok.. gotcha. my guess is you would have to lower your IC down to low .04xx


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

CASHBY III said:


> damn.. i wouldn't change a thing ahah. at that point it is just fine tuning with the main fuel correction map.


Ahh... Gotcha. But I need bigger injectors aha reason being 630cc gets maxed out at like 25 psi and IM running it at 18-20. And right now min pulse is set at .74


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

does anyone know how to lower the fuel at idle its running like 14.7 right now id like to lower it to like 16.0 or something lol


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Vdubed13 said:


> does anyone know how to lower the fuel at idle its running like 14.7 right now id like to lower it to like 16.0 or something lol


Why would you want to do that 14.7 is perfectly stoich.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

codergfx said:


> Why would you want to do that 14.7 is perfectly stoich.


yeah. x2? :sly:


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

codergfx said:


> Why would you want to do that 14.7 is perfectly stoich.





Rac_337 said:


> yeah. x2? :sly:


well im a lil retarded i have a autotech intake cam...sounds real good but like on idle its around 17-16 sounds good haha...i lowered my idle 60 but wanted to see if i could lower fuel i know its retarded but just seeing


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

What are your 032 block values? You need to add fuel not take out


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

are you talking about vaccum at idle or AF ratio at idle?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> are you talking about vaccum at idle or AF ratio at idle?


Read my mind I wasn't sure whT he was talkin Bout aswell


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

talking about a/f......


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

codergfx said:


> How much would I hVe to lower my
> IC min pulse width going from 630cc to 750cc you think?
> 
> 
> ...


didn't read this entirely I guess. I thought you were talking about IC and didnt notice that you put min pulse width. Try lowering it to like .40 and see what happens. what is it at right now?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

@ Cryser or anyone else who provide insight...2 questions...

**My A/F is perfectly dialed in under main load. Around 0-2% o2 correction under full throttle everywhere. Desired vs Actual A/F is nearly identical everywhere.**

My problem is I experience knock on throttle tip in. For instance I'll be cruising and start to tip into throttle (20-30%) and knock occurs. It only occurs on what I believe is transistion to part-throttle map to the full load map. After the onset of knock it tapers down to 0 during my pull. I attempted to lower requested timing in the pump timing map but this did not help the situation.

1. What steps should I take to correct this? Should I try increasing added fuel on the acceleration map? Or do I need to adjust a part throttle map--which we don't have access to correct?

2. If I were to adjust acceleration map what do the values mean? I can't correlate them with what I'm seeing. A larger value is more fuel added? I didn't want to go adjusting blindly. And why in the world does the X axis values increase then decrease in the last column?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

CASHBY III said:


> didn't read this entirely I guess. I thought you were talking about IC and didnt notice that you put min pulse width. Try lowering it to like .40 and see what happens. what is it at right now?


It's .74 ATM


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

does anyone know or has tried to somehow get the dbw throttle to operate closer to a dbc system......anyone messed around with the throttle maps and gotten better response.....as in when u press the pedal 50 percent you get a 50 percent throttle plate opening no matter what.....75 perfent pedal gives you 75 percent plate etc? 

Is it possible? i miss my me5 so much for this very reason....me7 is better in every way but that


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

*Power Enrichment Map Axis Values Meaning and Theory*
_X- Axis_​
The X-axis is Relative Torque to Driver's Request.

What this means is based on the Torque Model what percentage of the torque that your requesting are you currently at.

The map has a hidden 0 so basically it will begin to start moving to the target values based on the value in the first. EDIT: THIS IS NOT TRUE The value in the first field will used for target lambda for idle until that X axis value is crossed... For a street car the first column should be filled with 1.001 and the X axis value should be you want to begin using this map.

_Y-Axis_​RPM, pretty simple.

*Theory behind the map*​
The idea behind the map is when you are requesting torque your always gonna wanna be richer then 14.7. This map seems to be right below Main fuel correction and changes the target AFR directly. You set up the map with the fuel curve you would want when your moving through the cars torque curve. 

IF your X axis looked like this for Y= 2500RPMs and a value of .8561 was in every cell

50 60 70 80 90 95

your telling the car:

When I(the driver) request torque I(the driver) want the AFR to be .8561 once you(the car) calculate that I am at 50% of the torque that I(the driver) requested of you(the car)

The Car then slowly richens up the fuel mixture as you begin requesting torque in order to make sure the AFR is .8561 when the car reaches 50% of the torque being requested. 

When setting the lower limit keep in mind that you have the acceleration fuel correction to help with sudden changes in throttle use that make to establish tip in throttle while this map is for setting afr based on torque curve.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

what i mean is if you look at the pedal map say u change it so the x axis which is throttle opening is spread throught the map so that for any rpm the percent throttle opening equals the percent torque........wouldnt the fuel maps still put the same fueling in effect for each requested torque anyways?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

can anyone look into if this would mess up a bunch of maps......does anyone know if the accelerator pedal map is independent in that it just translates pedal position to percent torque.....if u made the map linear to replicate a drive by cable system wouldnt other maps still run of the requested torque like normal?


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

When you all are setting your 2-step what are you putting the other number at i think its the speed something on the left of the rpm setting?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Cryser said:


> .......want the AFR to be .8561 once you(the car) calculate that I am at 50% of the torque that I(the driver) requested of you(the car)
> 
> The Car then slowly richens up the fuel mixture as you begin requesting torque in order to make sure the AFR is .8561 when the car reaches 50% of the torque being requested.





Cryser said:


> The way Maestro is labeled and set up to doing fueling is using the EGT protection map as a full throttle lambda map. The trigger being 2 things, EGT have passed the set threshold and your requested and actual loads are matched(full load).


I understand what your doing I just don't fully comprehend why you need to do it this way. I'd think you'd be able to make it work with the available maps. But if it works why not..my only concern would be will the ECM be able to make corrections to this map if it sees something wrong.

I'm not sure where you are getting that full load lambda map is only active when load actual = load request. or am I reading this wrong. My logs seem to show differently; that the LAMBTS map is active when they are not equal as my actual vs. requested doesn't match until 4500 RPMs. Could you point me to where you read this (I have the bosch pdf) so I can see. Like I mentioned earlier I have another bosch PDF that explains fueling in lamen terms and the impression I get from it is LAMBTS (or similiar behaving map) is the full throttle map as it takes into account fuel, lambda, spark and timing effciencys under WOT.

Also, maybe its the same problem I'm experiencing. But I am getting cylinder correction around 54% load while tipping into throttle. Everything seems to be within spec (A/F, o2 correct, I lowered timing, richened A/F), but its happening all the time. Light cruising during low load tip in I will get 2-6 counts of correction. If I do a WOT pull the correction will taper off and be gone by the end of the gear pull.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Tool:

I was just going by my personal logs that the LAMBTS map never seem to activate until I hit full load.

When the EGT threshold is set there are a LOT of maps that start going into effect, maps that affect timing as well as fueling from my understanding.

The reason boush tuned the car using LAMBTS as a full load lambda map is because of emissions. They want the car to be 14.7 for as long as it possibly be safely to get the best emissions out of it.

Also remember the EGT threshold is not from an EGT it's calculated and in order to get an accurate estimate for EGT from the front lambda sensor the inside diameter of the exhaust pipe is taken into account. When you change your downpipe that calculation is off.

Either way now fully understand the X axis of the power enrichment map, I personally believe it's a much better way to control lambda. The instant I want more torque and the car see that it starts to enrich the mixture as oppose to relaying on EGT getting to a certain point.

Also I will say I have noticed the car allowing 3-4 more degree timing past 4.5K but it has been pretty chilly out so I'm not sure I'm ready to notch that all up to using the power enrichment map yet.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

tojr1088 said:


> can anyone look into if this would mess up a bunch of maps......does anyone know if the accelerator pedal map is independent in that it just translates pedal position to percent torque.....if u made the map linear to replicate a drive by cable system wouldnt other maps still run of the requested torque like normal?


I tried that early on, if you mean a map that looks like a 45* line, and its twitchy. If you map a shallow depression through the 1st 50% of map and a bulge through the 2nd (relative to the 45* line) it gives progressive throttle, better part-throttle on/off behavior, and driveable full-throttle.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

l88m22vette said:


> I tried that early on, if you mean a map that looks like a 45* line, and its twitchy. If you map a shallow depression through the 1st 50% of map and a bulge through the 2nd (relative to the 45* line) it gives progressive throttle, better part-throttle on/off behavior, and driveable full-throttle.


im talking about the accelerator pedal map.....can u check maestro to confirm your thoughts? what ur saying is what i thought would happen.....making the throttle map a perfect 45 degree linear curve according to throttle input. in other words take the y axis values and spread them horizontally across every rpm. check on this for me :thumbup:


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Yes, that map. It will look like someone drew a stretched "S," with the depression in the map to the left of 50% and a bulge/rise after 50%. Keep it conservative at first, its a quick reflash, just bring a laptop with and drive around the neighborhood


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

what do you guys think of these logs. WOT 22xx-65xx? Timing is a bit low, I think. Ignore the slowwwww spool, 3in exhaust is on the way (currently stock).

IAT,Boost,A/F & Ignition Timing










http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6475400401/


Knock










http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6475400375/


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

looks pretty good to me.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Cryser said:


> When the EGT threshold is set there are a LOT of maps that start going into effect, maps that affect timing as well as fueling from my understanding.
> 
> Also remember the EGT threshold is not from an EGT it's calculated and in order to get an accurate estimate for EGT from the front lambda sensor the inside diameter of the exhaust pipe is taken into account. When you change your downpipe that calculation is off.


Right but I believe the EGT threshold (in this instance) is only used to figure out when the engine components are up to operating temperature. Once threshold is crossed the car will run off of LAMBTS for full throttle. I'm sure there is an upper EGT threshold protection map/correction factor as well for excessively high EGTS that we can not have access to.



Cryser said:


> Either way now fully understand the X axis of the power enrichment map, I personally believe it's a much better way to control lambda. The instant I want more torque and the car see that it starts to enrich the mixture as oppose to relaying on EGT getting to a certain point.


It may work but I'm not convinced its better yet...
1) You have a smaller map to work with
2) You have no additional fueling correction available other than o2 correction. Which is working on PREVIOUS comparisons of sensors. So while it is active its lagging behind what is actually taking part in combustion. This could be a MAJOR issue for those of us running MAFLESS big turbos that are exceeding the MAP sensor PSI reading.

3) I'd want to make sure you still have intervention from the ECM. The spark, fuel, lambda & knock effciencies are there for a reason. Yes they might be invasive to our optimal tune but they are there for to protect the engine.



Cryser said:


> Also I will say I have noticed the car allowing 3-4 more degree timing past 4.5K but it has been pretty chilly out so I'm not sure I'm ready to notch that all up to using the power enrichment map yet.


I'd guess its the map because it does not have the various correction factors built into it like LAMBTS maybe related to what I mentioned above. Its probably not using the spark effciency.
Spark Efficiency is a deviation derived from the difference of Optimal Spark vs. Actual Spark then factored as a correction into timing advance. I have no idea how actual spark is figured. This is frustrating as like you said timing advance is usually 3-4 degrees less than the timing map we input. My guess is it may have something to do with the Dwell timing and voltages.

I'm not knocking your work take it as constructive criticism. In no way am I saying I'm right your wrong alot of what I said is based on theories from my reading. I like that your experimenting, I may even try this but I'd want to lower my boost WAY down before I experiment. Not being able to reach max timing is a real downer so I understand your thinking.

:thumbup:


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> looks pretty good to me.


thanks. I was thinking I could add in a bit more timing down low, since I'm not getting any correction until way up top, but that could also be because there's no boost down low due to the spool time. However, doesn't advancing timing down low hurt the spool time?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

i advanced my timing all the way to 4000 rpm where my turbo really kicks in.......you have a little more off boost power and better gas mileage with more timing.....it may hurt spool 200 to 300 rpm

my turbo comes on so f-ing fast that i dont even notice and my car was surging so i had to slow down spool anyways until i get cams


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

xxsur3shotxx said:


> what do you guys think of these logs. WOT 22xx-65xx? Timing is a bit low, I think. Ignore the slowwwww spool, 3in exhaust is on the way (currently stock).
> 
> IAT,Boost,A/F & Ignition Timing
> 
> ...


That timing is pretty good I would not alter it (4000+) until you get the exhaust on. Increasing timing while bottlenecking your turbo is a very bad idea. Your spoolup is horrible I can't believe a 50 trim spools that slow on stock exhaust  Are you venting a stock DV to atomosphere? Recirc it or buy a quality valve. In my experience OEM valves are very leaky--that may even be part of your slow spool.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Right but I believe the EGT threshold (in this instance) is only used to figure out when the engine components are up to operating temperature. Once threshold is crossed the car will run off of LAMBTS for full throttle. I'm sure there is an upper EGT threshold protection map/correction factor as well for excessively high EGTS that we can not have access to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



See I've never had the chance to play around with it on a big turbo set up. The problem I think is the EGT threshold is for much more then just the full load lambda map, I believe once that threshold is passed a whole load of protection maps begin to effect things to protect the engine.

One thing I have noticed about timing is that even though the car runs a lot more the CF is nearly the same as when I would cross the EGT threshold. More work needs to be done to see exactly what effect crossing the EGT threshold does.

If you were to use poewr enrichment on a BT I would start it at around 50% or so depending on size of the turbo


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> That timing is pretty good I would not alter it (4000+) until you get the exhaust on. Increasing timing while bottlenecking your turbo is a very bad idea. Your spoolup is horrible I can't believe a 50 trim spools that slow on stock exhaust  Are you venting a stock DV to atomosphere? Recirc it or buy a quality valve. In my experience OEM valves are very leaky--that may even be part of your slow spool.


haha yeah the spool is pretty bad. And about the dv, if you're referring to the picture of the bay, that was temporary. I run a Forge 007, and recirculate it.


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## audi_1.8t (May 3, 2009)

*HELP!*

I am new to maestro and just got my project complete but here are my problems. 97 aeb, v8 maf, 830cc file, 1 bar tial wg, t3 .63 trim turbo, 81.5 8.5:1 je pistons. Car started idled then went for a drive and did third gear pulls but during pulls when turbo would really start to kick in rpms jumped from around 3500 to 5700 then i would jump off the gas.(i have the log) then i went to drive home and got 1/4 mile down the road and it was stumbling so i cut it off. then i tryed starting and it was dumping fuel like crazy. it was so bad after i towed it home and tryed to start it and the fuel was dripping out the exhuast.(i have log) Please email at [email protected] if you can help and i will send the logs.

Thanks,
Harry


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Your O2 sensor? I get that problem when my primary O2 dies, but I'm a wideband car, you're narrowband, not sure how that affects you.


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## audi_1.8t (May 3, 2009)

well i hopes its not the o2 sensor because it is brand new.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

audi_1.8t said:


> I am new to maestro and just got my project complete but here are my problems. 97 aeb, v8 maf, 830cc file, 1 bar tial wg, t3 .63 trim turbo, 81.5 8.5:1 je pistons. Car started idled then went for a drive and did third gear pulls but during pulls when turbo would really start to kick in rpms jumped from around 3500 to 5700 then i would jump off the gas.(i have the log) then i went to drive home and got 1/4 mile down the road and it was stumbling so i cut it off. then i tryed starting and it was dumping fuel like crazy. it was so bad after i towed it home and tryed to start it and the fuel was dripping out the exhuast.(i have log) Please email at [email protected] if you can help and i will send the logs.
> 
> Thanks,
> Harry


Send logs to [email protected]

That tune runs mostly off the map and throttle body so its probably one of the two. Give me your logs u have ill help u. Aeb tunes can be a pain


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Sorry meant runs off the maf not map


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

For those in the know I have a question.

When reviewing my log data what is the difference between load spec, and actual load? I have assumed that tuning should be based on actual load, but I was wondering what exactly is the load spec. value, and what affect does it have on the state of the engine? Like is the engine using the value in the timing tables for the actual load or the spec load?

Any input is appreciated.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

for your car load is calculated by the maf......wideband cars or ones with a map sensor have values in the specified load blocks.......i looked at your logs.....by the end of the cruise where it died you 02 correction was trying to pull 30 percent......check your fuel trims looks like after u start driving your car is maxing out the fuel it can add....i had this problem when i had narrowband.....telll me what your values for block 32 are.

Also your long term fuel trim could be your injector constant being inncorrect. or your fuel pressure regulator or even your throttle body being crap or not adapted....please go through the basics by adapting your throttle body, making sure u have no dtc codes, making sure u have no boost leaks at all, no exhaust leaks, make sure you set your injector constant correctly using the wizard, narrowband tuning can be a pain in the butt but everything has to have no leaks or error....wideband cars tend to be more leniant with this stuff


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

if everything is fine id look at your maf or throttle body for the cause....assuming your 02 sensors are new.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> For those in the know I have a question.
> 
> When reviewing my log data what is the difference between load spec, and actual load? I have assumed that tuning should be based on actual load, but I was wondering what exactly is the load spec. value, and what affect does it have on the state of the engine? Like is the engine using the value in the timing tables for the actual load or the spec load?
> 
> Any input is appreciated.


my bad answered the wrong person.....dont know your setup lol was replying to audi_1.8t


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> For those in the know I have a question.
> 
> When reviewing my log data what is the difference between load spec, and actual load? I have assumed that tuning should be based on actual load, but I was wondering what exactly is the load spec. value, and what affect does it have on the state of the engine? Like is the engine using the value in the timing tables for the actual load or the spec load?
> 
> Any input is appreciated.


but to answer your question......the specified load i beleive is what the car wanst to be at if conditions let it.....if its not it could be due to any of the table you couldve changed or just the temperature outside, etc. my car is never right on either yet....but all is a work in progress. Also the fact of where your turbo spools and everything changed how the car can get to specified load values and at what time etc. If im wrong someone step in for me lol


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

sabbySC said:


> For those in the know I have a question.
> 
> When reviewing my log data what is the difference between load spec, and actual load? I have assumed that tuning should be based on actual load, but I was wondering what exactly is the load spec. value, and what affect does it have on the state of the engine? Like is the engine using the value in the timing tables for the actual load or the spec load?
> 
> Any input is appreciated.


I asked this question and could not get a clear answer. My values are way mismatched as well. I'd have to check my notesheet at home to see what I have scribbled down concerning this, I can't recall what was relayed to me at the moment.

Timing tables are based on actual load if I recall.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

yes timing tables are based on actual load..... because if it werent i beleive it could be very bad......and the reason they dont match up is because whatever chris wrote the base file for was prob not your exact setup.....if u had his setup they would match up......put on a bigger turbo and then the car cant achieve desired load at the same times......get what i mean?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

xxsur3shotxx said:


> haha yeah the spool is pretty bad. And about the dv, if you're referring to the picture of the bay, that was temporary. I run a Forge 007, and recirculate it.


My 50trim full spool by 4300-4500 all the way to redline 20psi. 3" dp to 2.5" exhaust. Also .63 a/r. 4000+ is when you feel turbo really hit. But it spools 10psi well before 4k.


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

codergfx said:


> My 50trim full spool by 4300-4500 all the way to redline 20psi. 3" dp to 2.5" exhaust. Also .63 a/r. 4000+ is when you feel turbo really hit. But it spools 10psi well before 4k.


Yeah I'm hoping to spool 20lbs by about 4000-4200 on a full 3" catless exhaust. I believe I'm gonna put it on Wednesday, so I'll update soon.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

xxsur3shotxx said:


> Yeah I'm hoping to spool 20lbs by about 4000-4200 on a full 3" catless exhaust. I believe I'm gonna put it on Wednesday, so I'll update soon.


i get about 23lbs at 4400 rpm on my 3082......i have a 150 cell cat tho lol


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

codergfx said:


> My 50trim full spool by 4300-4500 all the way to redline 20psi. 3" dp to 2.5" exhaust. Also .63 a/r. 4000+ is when you feel turbo really hit. But it spools 10psi well before 4k.


spot on with mine as well. 20psi @ 4300


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> i get about 23lbs at 4400 rpm on my 3082......i have a 150 cell cat tho lol


Nice. That's a lot bigger than my turbo though. And ball bearing too, no?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

xxsur3shotxx said:


> Nice. That's a lot bigger than my turbo though. And ball bearing too, no?


yessirr hta billet wheel too.......started with a 3076r and something chipped a fin 100 miles after start so i sent it to hta for a slight upgrade


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

im gonna log mine just for curiosity lmao.....i want a fancy graph showing my spool too


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

According to my logs I made 20 psi at 3900 and 22 psi by 4100. Not bad for a 3082 huh


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

That is actually not bad dbb?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

yupp with the billet wheel upgrade


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> yupp with the billet wheel upgrade


Nice I got billet wheel in my 5557 comin soon


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## kristalnaucht (Nov 24, 2011)

*just a quick question*

how much is the eurodyne tuner? i tried going on to their website but there online shop is closed


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

kristalnaucht said:


> how much is the eurodyne tuner? i tried going on to their website but there online shop is closed


$800
Pag Parts & APtuning are dealers.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

kristalnaucht said:


> how much is the eurodyne tuner? i tried going on to their website but there online shop is closed


http://pagparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=103_105&products_id=292

options at botton
looks like $799 for tuning suite


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## kristalnaucht (Nov 24, 2011)

**



Dub-Nub said:


> http://pagparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=103_105&products_id=292
> 
> options at botton
> looks like $799 for tuning suite


thank you


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

damn they must have dropped price i paid 1000 dollars for mine at AP tuning :facepalm:


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Vdubed13 said:


> damn they must have dropped price i paid 1000 dollars for mine at AP tuning :facepalm:


ive never heard of it being more than 850/900 that sucks man i got a discount when i bought mine.


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> ive never heard of it being more than 850/900 that sucks man i got a discount when i bought mine.


mine said like 900 then they added tax...haha o well that was like 2 years ago


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

I paid 900 out the door at pag parts like 2 yrs ago


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> I paid 900 out the door at pag parts like 2 yrs ago


lol they must have seen me coming haha


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Vdubed13 said:


> lol they must have seen me coming haha


I paid 960 a while ago aswell lol


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Defeating an Immobilizer on a second hand ECU is generally not part of the price if you send in an ECU. I'm guessing that or shipping is the main discrepancy.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

[No message]


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

screwball said:


> Defeating an Immobilizer on a second hand ECU is generally not part of the price if you send in an ECU. I'm guessing that or shipping is the main discrepancy.


 well i just drove all the way there and they plugged there obd2 thing into my car and did it that way haha 



codergfx said:


> I paid 960 a while ago aswell lol


i dont feel as bad now that someone else paid a lil more


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

There's a new update guys and some cool stuff coming down the pipeline in general.


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

screwball said:


> There's a new update guys and some cool stuff coming down the pipeline in general.


on the site?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I haven't checked yet, I was advised to pull an update down though before logging my car this weekend. I assumed it was due to a new version being released...


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

screwball said:


> I haven't checked yet, I was advised to pull an update down though before logging my car this weekend. I assumed it was due to a new version being released...


i expect updates to your findings......i remember an update i got last week thats all ive seen yet


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

:vaporware:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

The first rule of fight club is to not speak of the beta files, lol..


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

are these updates being pushed through the server or is Ctapp sending you the files specifically?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

website/server down?


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

sometimes when a site is down, the admin is updating it


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Really looking for more info on said updates. Are we talking aabout software updates that I automatically get or actual file updates


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

tojr1088 said:


> Really looking for more info on said updates. Are we talking aabout software updates that I automatically get or actual file updates


The software updates when you open the program if needed.



screwball said:


> some cool stuff coming down the pipeline


^^^Like screwball said stuff is coming, be patient some of us have been waiting for specific updates for over a year. There are alot of different ECM's that must be thoroughly tested. :thumbup:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

software updates is what I meant. I wouldn't consider it critical and yes things are coming down the pike that some of us would find useful.


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

who on here can i send my log i just did and they can help me out a lil?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Vdubed13 said:


> who on here can i send my log i just did and they can help me out a lil?


Put it up on google spreadsheet and what are your 032 block values?


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

screwball said:


> software updates is what I meant. I wouldn't consider it critical and yes things are coming down the pike that some of us would find useful.


Any specifics? I'll always hope for quick+dirty Vag-Com coder (remote windows, etc) but I assume that's a pipedream


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

codergfx said:


> Put it up on google spreadsheet and what are your 032 block values?


i dunno how to and i have know idea cause i dont even know how to work half the stuff on freakin Maestro ill send you the file tho?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

What way have you guys been sending Tapp your suggestions for opening up maps and limits?

There are a few control limits I would love to get access to, would be able to do some great things with them


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Cryser said:


> What way have you guys been sending Tapp your suggestions for opening up maps and limits?
> 
> There are a few control limits I would love to get access to, would be able to do some great things with them


Email him directly, has worked for me.


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

i think i figured it out 
My boost was around 27PSI on this not the 22 crap it says my af is wack i think i need to bring it down alot need some help anyone that knows anything help lol :beer:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhGPQpFqNayFdEk3THAxQ0RmQnVuS3E4d2xpRFdYV3c


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Do you have a boost guage installed?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

yea youre running lean there buddy!


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

sabbySC said:


> Do you have a boost guage installed?


lol yea im on 27 psi 



codergfx said:


> yea youre running lean there buddy!


 yupp i know lol i need help to fix it i thought i was maxing out old 630cc so i bought 870cc and same ****..

specs of car if helps any
5857 billet wheel w 4" ported cold side and .64ar exhaust 
CTS top mount mani 
IE rods stock pistons 
AWW head (small port job)
Super Tech valves 
AutoTech intake cam
walbro 255 
sema 870cc on 3bar


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## Mr.Miranda (Sep 19, 2008)

*EV14 840cc Injectors*

Hi Everyone,

Can someone please help me out? Im new to the Maestro world and Im willing to learn as much as I can. Im a mechanic but not a tuner, so anything regarding tuning, im a noob.

Ok, right now the car is on the lift. I just finished installing the new injectors that I bought from arnold (PAGPARTS) (EV14 840cc Bosch Injectors). Arnold sent me the base file, but im currently running 15.1 at Idle and my vacuum is at -16.

These are my mods


GT30R
840cc Injectors
3 Bar FPR
AEB head
SEM Big port Manifold
RS4 75mm Throttle Body
Walbro Inline pump
APR Stage3+ Intank Pump
Mafless
38mm Tial Wastegate
Tial 50MM BOV

I have the base file, but I definitely need to adjust something to bring the AFR down to 14.7 and my vacuum to -19-20. 

block 032 I have 7.9% adaptation and on block 31 I have 1.047-1.055 Value

Can someone help me?

By the way, I did a pressure test using a boost leak tester and everything is sealed correctly, also everything is V-band including and everything has been checked and re-torqued so no leaks either. I just finished the build so pretty much everything is new including all sensors and pretty much all the hardware.

I haven't ran the car on the street (Only idle for about 2 hours). Will run it tomorrow :thumbup: 

Thank you guys!!


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Mr.Miranda said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Can someone please help me out? Im new to the Maestro world and Im willing to learn as much as I can. Im a mechanic but not a tuner, so anything regarding tuning, im a noob.
> 
> ...


please read the thread about regardling adjusting fuel trim values using your injector constant and battery compensation values.....its shown many times....after uve tried everything let us know


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## Mr.Miranda (Sep 19, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> please read the thread about regardling adjusting fuel trim values using your injector constant and battery compensation values.....its shown many times....after uve tried everything let us know


Thanks so much!


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Are you using the 550cc Bosch Injector Constant on the 840s?


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Mr.Miranda said:


> I haven't ran the car on the street (Only idle for about 2 hours). Will run it tomorrow :thumbup:


 
Also note that you have to drive it around for awhile before checking your fuel trims and adjusting BVC and IC, I ussually drive around at 50 miles and that gives a pretty accurate #'s in block 032... Just idling isn't gonna help you... The first value (in block 032) is adjusting off your IC values (2nd value in block 032)and without driving around thats gonna be way off so its pointless


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Hey guys. I've managed to get my vr6 throttle body to behave pretty good all around. Part throttle, idle and full load is pretty good. I'm still dialing it in by doing tons of driving at different loads and rpms ranges. 

My question is this. Is there any way to have maestro run through the log faster than just real time? If I do 20 minutes of driving and have to wait 20 minutes to have maestro run through it, it will be tedious. Reason I ask is I'm driving upstate this weekend (2hours) and I think the trip will have tons of data to adjust the main fuel corrections adequately. Tons of long uphill and mixed driving.


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## Mr.Miranda (Sep 19, 2008)

screwball said:


> Are you using the 550cc Bosch Injector Constant on the 840s?


I dont know, All Arnold mentioned to me is that they are EV14 840Ccc Injectors. I got rid of my Siemens 630cc and replaced with this ones.



One-Eight GTI said:


> Also note that you have to drive it around for awhile before checking your fuel trims and adjusting BVC and IC, I ussually drive around at 50 miles and that gives a pretty accurate #'s in block 032... Just idling isn't gonna help you... The first value (in block 032) is adjusting off your IC values (2nd value in block 032)and without driving around thats gonna be way off so its pointless


This I didnt know, I will definitely take it for a spin today and drive it around the city. Thanks for the help. :beer:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

If Arnold provided the flash then I'm sure he's made some adjustments. I ask because I'm looking at upgrading to his 840 setup too. I bought another car so I've got some wiggle room as I don't have to keep my GTI 100% roadworthy, which was never mentioned in the BT handbook, lol..


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## Mr.Miranda (Sep 19, 2008)

screwball said:


> If Arnold provided the flash then I'm sure he's made some adjustments. I ask because I'm looking at upgrading to his 840 setup too. I bought another car so I've got some wiggle room as I don't have to keep my GTI 100% roadworthy, which was never mentioned in the BT handbook, lol..


Yep, Arnold is willing to Help me, but I do understand he is always busy and since I don't want to be bugging him a lot, I figured asking on the forum for some little advice. Maybe someone went through the same thing im going through and is willing to help. From what I read, 840cc are ideal for the GT30R setup, and then Arnold confirmed that. I will get my car on the road today and get the fuel trim levels and hope the car adjusts itself. I will then report back with you all. :beer:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

If I was adjusting a 630cc file to the 840cc's I would definitely start by setting the IC to the 550cc settings until I could start adjusting based on block 32 results. Either way, he's been tweaking cars a lot recently so I'm sure he can push you in the right direction.


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## Mr.Miranda (Sep 19, 2008)

screwball said:


> If I was adjusting a 630cc file to the 840cc's I would definitely start by setting the IC to the 550cc settings until I could start adjusting based on block 32 results. Either way, he's been tweaking cars a lot recently so I'm sure he can push you in the right direction.


Ok so I took the car for a drive today. I didnt boost at all because I have a brand new engine only up to 4-6 psi I believe :laugh:. While cruising car felt super smooth. The I let the car Idle and it was right on 14.6 AFR and vaccum at -19. It idles and purrs very quietly. I havent adjusted nor messed with maestro yet. All this is on the base file that Arnold sent me for the 840cc Injectors. I will check values later today to see how the car is doing. Thank you everyone for all your help :beer:


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Mr.Miranda said:


> Ok so I took the car for a drive today. I didnt boost at all because I have a brand new engine only up to 4-6 psi I believe :laugh:. While cruising car felt super smooth. The I let the car Idle and it was right on 14.6 AFR and vaccum at -19. It idles and purrs very quietly. I havent adjusted nor messed with maestro yet. All this is on the base file that Arnold sent me for the 840cc Injectors. I will check values later today to see how the car is doing. Thank you everyone for all your help :beer:


i usually break in a motor decently hard after doing a warm up and cool down first......if u dont priperly seat the rings quickly by cylinder pressure you wont get the best results


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

and my other cars new motor is currently over 90k and i beat the **** out of it....still good compression too......and i broke it in hard


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## Mr.Miranda (Sep 19, 2008)

Hey Guys whats up Happy new year!

Ok so car has been on the road for 100 miles now. The car threw a code "16891" Idle Control System RPM: Higher than expected - Intermittent. . My rpms go up to 2k and stay there and then just drops back to normal. I also noticed that my car is wasting too much fuel. quarter of a tank only for 50 miles used. I also checked my block 32 and I have 6.6% and on second block 25%. 

As I was inspecting the car I found out the hose from the BOV was disconnected and the car was having a vaccum leak. 

I reconnected the line and got it secured but the car is still doing the same. Clearing the codes and re-align the throttle body will solve this issue? Or could it be that the tune needs a little adjustment? 

Thanks everyone!


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

If you had a vacuum leak (which you did) don't use those values from block 032, reset fuel trims and drive for another 100 miles and than check them and make adjustments from there:thumbup:


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

One-Eight GTI said:


> If you had a vacuum leak (which you did) don't use those values from block 032, reset fuel trims and drive for another 100 miles and than check them and make adjustments from there:thumbup:


in case you dont know how to reset fuel trims just clear codes and they will reset. :thumbup:


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

Help me...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ek3THAxQ0RmQnVuS3E4d2xpRFdYV3c&hl=en_US#gid=0


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Vdubed13 said:


> Help me...
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ek3THAxQ0RmQnVuS3E4d2xpRFdYV3c&hl=en_US#gid=0


biggest problem i c is your fuel trim.......did u run it for a while and use your block 32 values to adjust your injector constant and bvc table?

i find alot of the same problems cluttering up the thread because of not reading it all first..

no offense if this isnt your case


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Vdubed13 said:


> Help me...
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ek3THAxQ0RmQnVuS3E4d2xpRFdYV3c&hl=en_US#gid=0


What is your IC and Min. Inj. Pulsewidth set at?


----------



## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Got a quick question for you guys in on e85 and when I first crank my car from sitting for a while, it doesn't always start on first crank it fires up and bogs, does that mean to much cranking fuel or not enough? Second crank starts right up. Usually in colder weather.


----------



## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> biggest problem i c is your fuel trim.......did u run it for a while and use your block 32 values to adjust your injector constant and bvc table?
> 
> i find alot of the same problems cluttering up the thread because of not reading it all first..
> 
> no offense if this isnt your case


Problem is I know nothing about tuning...I just used injectors wizzard and changed that to what ever the 870cc injectors called for.

Second I'm to afraid to news with things I don't know about I'm a quick learner but just need someone to talk about it to or show me/ walk me through it over the phone or text..



TooLFan46n2 said:


> What is your IC and Min. Inj. Pulsewidth set at?


I dunno..lol read above I need help buy I will tell u my tune is base I haven't changed one thing since I got it from Chris


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Vdubed13 said:


> Problem is I know nothing about tuning...I just used injectors wizzard and changed that to what ever the 870cc injectors called for.
> 
> Second I'm to afraid to news with things I don't know about I'm a quick learner but just need someone to talk about it to or show me/ walk me through it over the phone or text..
> 
> ...


well maybe you shouldve just bought a shelf tune that u dont need to mess with.....i aussure you this thread has much info and if you read every page u can figure it out......i can possibly help you over the phone.....pm me your number.......keep in mine if u know nothing about tuning your car will be slower than your average shefl uni tune so to speak because the base maestro file is a lesser file meant to be dialed in.....read this thread fully and pm me your number.....


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Vdubed13 said:


> Problem is I know nothing about tuning...I just used injectors wizzard and changed that to what ever the 870cc injectors called for.
> 
> Second I'm to afraid to news with things I don't know about I'm a quick learner but just need someone to talk about it to or show me/ walk me through it over the phone or text..
> 
> ...


Your asking for help; is it really that difficult to open the file and look? No one will be able to help you until your IC and Min. Pulsewidth are known.


----------



## Mr.Miranda (Sep 19, 2008)

Mr.Miranda said:


> Ok so I took the car for a drive today. I didnt boost at all because I have a brand new engine only up to 4-6 psi I believe :laugh:. While cruising car felt super smooth. The I let the car Idle and it was right on 14.6 AFR and vaccum at -19. It idles and purrs very quietly. I havent adjusted nor messed with maestro yet. All this is on the base file that Arnold sent me for the 840cc Injectors. I will check values later today to see how the car is doing. Thank you everyone for all your help :beer:





Mr.Miranda said:


> Hey Guys whats up Happy new year!
> 
> Ok so car has been on the road for 100 miles now. The car threw a code "16891" Idle Control System RPM: Higher than expected - Intermittent. . My rpms go up to 2k and stay there and then just drops back to normal. I also noticed that my car is wasting too much fuel. quarter of a tank only for 50 miles used. I also checked my block 32 and I have 6.6% and on second block 25%.
> 
> ...



Ok system has been pressure tested again and no leaks this time. Fuel trim values are still 5.3 and 25%. Car is still doing the same thing , revving up to 2k like for 5-8 seconds and then returning back to normal.

Arnold sent me an updated file, and he mentioned that my throttle body (RS4 75mm) could be the problem since the base file is meant for a stock throttle body. 

I flashed the new file arnold sent me and the car is still doing the same (Revving up to 2k) but I have not checked the fuel trims if they went lower than 25%. Arnold also mentioned something about messing with the Alpha/N values by adding 5% to adjust fueling and the throttle body.

Can someone pass me a link where I can find how to adjust the Alpha/N values? Do you guys think that by adjusting that might help my car to stop revving up to 2k? My TB adapts really well every time I do the TB adaptation. So I doubt the TB is bad.

Overall I feel the car running very good, it does not hesitate or struggles. Its just that problem with the car revving to 2k at stops sometimes. Also when I rev the car if Im at a stop, the rpms will stay at 1k and slowly start building up to 2k and as soon as it hits 2k it returns to normal. Please help guys!

Thanks so much everyone!!


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Mr.Miranda said:


> Ok system has been pressure tested again and no leaks this time. Fuel trim values are still 5.3 and 25%. Car is still doing the same thing , revving up to 2k like for 5-8 seconds and then returning back to normal.
> 
> Arnold sent me an updated file, and he mentioned that my throttle body (RS4 75mm) could be the problem since the base file is meant for a stock throttle body.
> 
> ...


Your car will never run right unless u use the stock throttle body. I have a 70mm oone and I had to.mess with.the alpha n table alot and its nothing u should do unless u know what ur doing. U basically need a maf sensor to.calibrate the alpha n. Its the only way. I can send u my alpha n table and a few others to try


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Mike, there's also some users with 80mm files you may want to try from in here to see if they're a better starting point w/ the 75mm TB. I'll see if I can dig those up.

John


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

screwball said:


> Mike, there's also some users with 80mm files you may want to try from in here to see if they're a better starting point w/ the 75mm TB. I'll see if I can dig those up.
> 
> John


i have them if he sends me his email......neither the 70mm or 80mm aplha n tables made my 70mm throttle body work right tho


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## Mr.Miranda (Sep 19, 2008)

screwball said:


> Mike, there's also some users with 80mm files you may want to try from in here to see if they're a better starting point w/ the 75mm TB. I'll see if I can dig those up.
> 
> John





tojr1088 said:


> i have them if he sends me his email......neither the 70mm or 80mm aplha n tables made my 70mm throttle body work right tho



Thanks guys!

"tojr1088* you can send the files to [email protected], Also what problems where you having with the car? Similar problems as mine?? Do you think I might have to go back to stock? Will i hurt performance by going to a stock TB?? Thanks for your help!!


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Mr.Miranda said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> "tojr1088* you can send the files to [email protected], Also what problems where you having with the car? Similar problems as mine?? Do you think I might have to go back to stock? Will i hurt performance by going to a stock TB?? Thanks for your help!!


Honestly unless ur going.for crazy power the stock throttle body will b fine and run way better. Ill send u the tables tommorow just for u to try


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

anyone get an update to the 630 file?


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

I have an 80mm file for 630cc injectors that I modified a bit you guys can try.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

mescaline said:


> I have an 80mm file for 630cc injectors that I modified a bit you guys can try.


I was just looking to see if there was a revision to what was already available. With that said I have a 630 file I tuned for a vr6 throttle body (thought to be 65mm but actually 67.xx mm diameter as per my vernier calipers). Idles and drives perfect no issues at all. 

I think a big issue people are having with tuning throttle bodies is that they assume they are XX mm. Stock one everyone says is 60mm but actually 59.52mm in diameter. The vr6 was assumed to be 65mm. The percent difference from 60mm to 65mm is about 16.xx%. the difference from 60mm to 67mm is about 25.xx%. The difference from what I actually measured of 59.5 to 67.25mm is closer to 28%. 

For the hell of it I went to the Alpha N table and added 28% to everywhere except the last row (which is 100%) and then to airflow vs TB angle and subtracted 28%. Yes gross estimating way of doing it but it works for me. I've needed to barely modify the idle and part throttle fuel, and only some tuning for higher loads and full throttle runs. My main fuel correction could remain untouched except for full throttle runs. 

Still MAF is the way to go. I'll do some testing when I get to the dyno but for now I think it's pretty darn close.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

You can't do it like that. Just because you increase throttle body plate area by 28% doesn't mean you increased flow by that much. It depends on lots of factors. Also that same throttle body on stock manifold and for example SEM manifold will yield different flow results.

It is very very difficult to tune for different TB sizes and the thing is that if you change anything on the car that affects the air flow...you (ideally) will have to tune everything again. This is not really the case for MAF tunes.
You simply have to GUESS the flow values and adjust until you get closer and closer. This can take WEEKS to do and that is what Chris Tapp called "tuning". I could quote him in one of his emails 

I think that Chris is getting frustrated by the fact that not so many people are having success with Maestro...which is not something to be surprised about since there is no single document describing any maps, let alone how it all works. Especially since he switched to a bit different approach to tune ME7.5 ECUs than Bosch originally did.

Anyway, i don't even think Maestro is really needed anymore now that we have editors and ECU definitions for most common ECUs and different tools to flash/read ECU. That's what Maestro essentially does. Biggest advantage is that Eurodyne provides you with base file but I am sure with courtesy of some good people that different free base files will be soon available that are editable in TunerPro or WinOls : -)


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Maestro users get a better file today than they did 2yrs ago. The larger the knowledgebase and the more distributors and Tapp get involved in working out kinks in base files the better off we'll all be. It's just a significant investment in time to get going.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I completely agree ... intake manifold, large port head, intake cam all have an effect on airflow. So does temperature and elevation. The cars ecu can adjust plus or minus 25% of fuel to accommodate. For the environmental variables. I used the % of the area increase of the diameter difference just to get me in the realm of where it should be. The car responded very well to the changes I've made. I don't have a Maf to play with now but again like I said for now its pretty damn close. Ill use a Maf come spring time to fine tune everything.


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Your asking for help; is it really that difficult to open the file and look? No one will be able to help you until your IC and Min. Pulsewidth are known.


Injector constant: 0.037518
Injector Pulsewidth: 0.749427


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

mescaline said:


> I think that Chris is getting frustrated by the fact that not so many people are having success with Maestro...which is not something to be surprised about since there is no single document describing any maps, let alone how it all works. Especially since he switched to a bit different approach to tune ME7.5 ECUs than Bosch originally did.


http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/index.php


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I really wish Maestro 7 was more customizable... a few of the labeling on the map axises are wrong, and it would be nice to relabel some of the names to something a little more appropriate.

Like Mescaline said Tapp uses a different approach to tuning, and he has had success with it. Personally I don't even use the map that is labeled full load lambda, it's filled with all 1.001 to disable to on my current file.

The problem is compounded by the facts that, mostly everything is in german coming from boush including the documentation on how the maps in ME7.5 work. We don't have access to every map that has been changed my tapp in his tunes specifically some of the limiters so if you try and work outside of "his" tuning style you get some oddball problems you have to work around in maestro because of this. Last but not least ME7.5 really is a bitch to learn, there are a lot of models inside the ecu and values you need to be aware off. It's not just okay 15 psi at 5000 rpm needs this much fuel... to do that you need to change like 5 maps.

Does anyone know if you change the fuel pressure does the injector correction map need to be changed as well?


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

I once criticized his tuning approach and he said "why criticize something that makes your life easier?" so obviously he thinks it's easier to tune ME7.5 that way...which it certainly is. His tuning approach is not unique tho', Unitronic uses the exact same technique (if you wanna call it that) which leads me to believe he wasn't the first one to do it.

Either way it will take a very long time to get a hang of it. If you are willing to spend that time...then why not learn the way ME7.5 works as it's meant from the begining?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Cryser said:


> I really wish Maestro 7 was more customizable... a few of the labeling on the map axises are wrong, and it would be nice to relabel some of the names to something a little more appropriate.
> 
> Like Mescaline said Tapp uses a different approach to tuning, and he has had success with it. Personally I don't even use the map that is labeled full load lambda, it's filled with all 1.001 to disable to on my current file.
> 
> ...


Actually I've had success using the full load lamba map in conjunction with power enrichment and main fuel correction, afr is pretty on the spot...


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

There was word that tapp was opening the availability of base files to customers... Is there any word on that yet?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

AmIdYfReAk said:


> There was word that tapp was opening the availability of base files to customers... Is there any word on that yet?


A database would be cool


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

It would be, I know file swapping is allowed between customers without an issue....

Then changing up to the tunes he has for the different throttle body's and etc that he has would make life simpler...


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I Don't see why to use the full load lambda map when I can do the same thing, better with power enrichment and end up with a lot more timing past 4K... I haven't gotten on the dyno since I swapped to using power enrichment but I can tell that partial throttle is a lot faster as I had to lower optimum torque a bit after switching maps and top end feels like it's pulling a lot harder.


I still have the problem where I might have to use main fuel correction to fix a bit of AFR when I go from a constant cruise to WOT instantly but we will see =)


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

AmIdYfReAk said:


> It would be, I know file swapping is allowed between customers without an issue....
> 
> Then changing up to the tunes he has for the different throttle body's and etc that he has would make life simpler...


My main question is say a file for AWW AWM AWP are they different? Or interflashable?

Ps: reason I use ful load lamba is because it uses engine load to control afr so i can vary my boost while driving and keep the afr under control. I use a greddy boost controller.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser said:


> I Don't see why to use the full load lambda map when I can do the same thing, better with power enrichment and end up with a lot more timing past 4K... I haven't gotten on the dyno since I swapped to using power enrichment but I can tell that partial throttle is a lot faster as I had to lower optimum torque a bit after switching maps and top end feels like it's pulling a lot harder.
> 
> 
> I still have the problem where I might have to use main fuel correction to fix a bit of AFR when I go from a constant cruise to WOT instantly but we will see =)


Cryser so do you just set the egt threshold really high so the car never hits it? The car always will run off of the power enrichment? Is that threshold a safety margin where the car reduces timing and runs off that map? 

Just trying to understand..


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Cryser said:


> I Don't see why to use the full load lambda map when I can do the same thing, better with power enrichment and end up with a lot more timing past 4K... I haven't gotten on the dyno since I swapped to using power enrichment but I can tell that partial throttle is a lot faster as I had to lower optimum torque a bit after switching maps and top end feels like it's pulling a lot harder.
> 
> 
> I still have the problem where I might have to use main fuel correction to fix a bit of AFR when I go from a constant cruise to WOT instantly but we will see =)


Are you referring to the AFR going straight to 10 with no o2 correction when you hit WOT...for a couple seconds causing you to make almost no power but still build boost?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Cryser so do you just set the egt threshold really high so the car never hits it? The car always will run off of the power enrichment? Is that threshold a safety margin where the car reduces timing and runs off that map?
> 
> Just trying to understand..


I would too. I've have my threshold pretty high (900˚c) and it looks to me as though the car hung with the power enrichment map. But I wonder if that "choice" has an impact on the ECU's adherence to the timing map. In other words, will the ECU hew closer to the map if it stays out of "full load"?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Other than develope a tune for speed density so we can run maffless what is different? All of these maps are right out of the bosch documentation explaining the maps and how they work. It may not be the easiest way of tuning... its the only way, short of going piggy back or full standalone. This is no easier or harder than what the guys at uni, APR, and Revo have to deal with I believe. Its the only way of tuning the me7 ecu.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I would too. I've have my threshold pretty high (900˚c) and it looks to me as though the car hung with the power enrichment map. But I wonder if that "choice" has an impact on the ECU's adherence to the timing map. In other words, will the ECU hew closer to the map if it stays out of "full load"?


My timing is fairly close to requested timing while using the full load lamba map, unless my intake temps go high.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Vdubed13 said:


> Injector constant: 0.037518
> Injector Pulsewidth: 0.749427


I can't recall (on lunch not much time) did you post up your block 032 values? And have you made any modifications to the main fuel correction map?

Although your constant is fairly low I would try lowering it maybe down to a .034. I believe your pulsewidth is to high as well BUT I would not lower it yet. Lowering it will lean you out a lil more most likely which you don't want. Try a lower IC and see if there is any difference in your active o2 correction (after some miles). Hopefully the lower IC will have a positive affect on fueling.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Budsdubbin said:


> Other than develope a tune for speed density so we can run maffless what is different?


The tuners reconfigured the maps so I don't think everything in the bosch docs holds completely true. For instance we are running fueling off the LAMBTS map which people say is a protection map.



[email protected] said:


> I would too. I've have my threshold pretty high (900˚c) and it looks to me as though the car hung with the power enrichment map. But I wonder if that "choice" has an impact on the ECU's adherence to the timing map. In other words, will the ECU hew closer to the map if it stays out of "full load"?


What do you mean the car hung?


**I believe The power enrichment map is used when the o2 is not heated up so by doing that you are affectively losing cold start map and load based fueling.**







Dub-Nub said:


> Are you referring to the AFR going straight to 10 with no o2 correction when you hit WOT...for a couple seconds causing you to make almost no power but still build boost?


That sounds like a tuning issue. You should not be losing o2 correction unless your tables are not configured properly; most notably main fuel correction.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

codergfx said:


> My timing is fairly close to requested timing while using the full load lamba map, unless my intake temps go high.


My timing for the most part is good except during spool 3800-4800ish its down quite a few degrees. 

For me I want to understand WHY it is less. I know there are many variables spark/fuel/lambda effciences that may affect actual timing. I have no problem with having safegaurds in place; I'd rather have them running a modified 400HP motor.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I can't recall (on lunch not much time) did you post up your block 032 values? And have you made any modifications to the main fuel correction map?
> 
> Although your constant is fairly low I would try lowering it maybe down to a .034. I believe your pulsewidth is to high as well BUT I would not lower it yet. Lowering it will lean you out a lil more most likely which you don't want. Try a lower IC and see if there is any difference in your active o2 correction (after some miles). Hopefully the lower IC will have a positive affect on fueling.


He had no o2 corrections in either location of block 32. The long term fueling doesn't seem to be working.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> My timing for the most part is good except during spool 3800-4800ish its down quite a few degrees.
> 
> For me I want to understand WHY it is less. I know there are many variables spark/fuel/lambda effciences that may affect actual timing. I have no problem with having safegaurds in place; I'd rather have them running a modified 400HP motor.


Thats my problem exactly. Timing hits the basement once it hits full spool and finally takes off as the rpms rise!


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Thats my problem exactly. Timing hits the basement once it hits full spool and finally takes off as the rpms rise!


Probably because of it running leaner right when boost hits


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> My timing for the most part is good except during spool 3800-4800ish its down quite a few degrees.
> 
> For me I want to understand WHY it is less. I know there are many variables spark/fuel/lambda effciences that may affect actual timing. I have no problem with having safegaurds in place; I'd rather have them running a modified 400HP motor.


How low are you? by full boost or boost onset its normal to be at the lowest point in the timing curve.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

I believe licenses were sold by someone to some people, I have an idea of who but I'm not going to say since it'd be talking out my ass. I do that enough


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

codergfx said:


> He had no o2 corrections in either location of block 32. The long term fueling doesn't seem to be working.


Only time I've heard of block 032 being empty is an open circuit in the emissions equipment.


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Only time I've heard of block 032 being empty is an open circuit in the emissions equipment.


i tried it again on the way to work nothing at all still 0s


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Vdubed13 said:


> i tried it again on the way to work nothing at all still 0s


Did you touch your SAI or EvAP system?


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Did you touch your SAI or EvAP system?


sai is deleted and the rest of that stuff is..


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Vdubed13 said:


> sai is deleted and the rest of that stuff is..



you need to have vvt resistored or plugged in and also your evap solenoid valve......those are the only two i needed.....even if u have no codes they still need to be plugged in or resistored to get you fuel trims


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I've set my egt threshold to 600*C the stock setting and filled the complete map with 1.001 in maestro to disable it.

When the egt threshold is passed a whole load of maps come into effect many, which we have no control over through maestro alone. There is a toggle in the ecu to turn off component protection, I would LOVE access to this toggle but as that would completely disable the map currently labeled "Full load lambda" Not sure if chris would allow that but once I find the address again for it I'm gonna ask him to unlock it for me.

I don't do fueling by load I do fueling by requested torque that way my fuel is being enriched AS load increases instead of always playing catch up when there is a load change. I find it to be much better feeling wise and I have noticed increased timing in the top end, quicker spool and better overall driving but this is all my opinion.

I still have cold fuel start up corrections power enrichment is full control of lambda before EGT threshold is reached and competent protection is activated.

I'm current working out a theory on how to populate the entire optimal torque map based using the target filling map I have vacuum nail down and with my modified target filling values the car drives wonderfully. I'm testing the theory in boost tonight with the logger on but mathematically everything works out perfectly.

As for the problem I was having.. no my problem is when I floor the car the next 5 or so cells of 02 are 0 then the 02 correction comes back and the ecu begins to request the lambda I have targeted. I have taken a lot of acceleration fuel and that has helped a bit hopefully nailing down my torque table will do the rest.


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> you need to have vvt resistored or plugged in and also your evap solenoid valve......those are the only two i needed.....even if u have no codes they still need to be plugged in or resistored to get you fuel trims


my vvt is plugged in:what: and i DONT have any SAI stuff i havent had it for a very long time...my car has been fine for awhile now and it just started doing this about a month ago ive never unplugged my VVT nor had any problem with the SAI being deleted causing fuel problems


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## createddeleted (Sep 24, 2008)

There are many ways to do fueling in ME7.5, so your milage may very but to prevent some misinformation around here I've decided to provide a tidbit of insight from my part.



[email protected] said:


> I would too. I've have my threshold pretty high (900˚c) and it looks to me as though the car hung with the power enrichment map. But I wonder if that "choice" has an impact on the ECU's adherence to the timing map. In other words, will the ECU hew closer to the map if it stays out of "full load"?


Read on how the ECU maps AFR's based on the egt component protection. Check your fueling, and the way you are fueling before any worry's towards relation to the timing maps. 



TooLFan46n2 said:


> The tuners reconfigured the maps so I don't think everything in the bosch docs holds completely true. For instance we are running fueling off the *LAMBTS map* which people say is a protection map.


LAMBTS is not a map, it is a collection of maps. Sorry for the small pic, but I just quickly uploaded it.













Cryser said:


> I've set my egt threshold to 600*C the stock setting and filled the complete map with 1.001 in maestro to disable it.
> 
> When the egt threshold is passed a whole load of maps come into effect many, which we have no control over through maestro alone. There is a toggle in the ecu to turn off component protection, I would LOVE access to this toggle but as that would completely disable the map currently labeled "Full load lambda" Not sure if chris would allow that but once I find the address again for it I'm gonna ask him to unlock it for me.
> 
> I don't do fueling by load I do fueling by requested torque that way my fuel is being enriched AS load increases instead of always playing catch up when there is a load change. I find it to be much better feeling wise and I have noticed increased timing in the top end, quicker spool and better overall driving but this is all my opinion.


Nothing is disabled with the stock value and 1's if its the maps I'm thinking of.

Yes, more maps come into play, about 5 main ones and I'm going to assume about 20 or more total. You don't have to toggle component protection you can manipulate it by numbers. The basis of fueling is held within component protection so disabling it would disable fueling.

Thats one way to do it, but your fueling will never coincide with load at all. Think of how this will be treated when you're not holding WOT but still at throttle at upper RPM's.



Dub-Nub said:


> Are you referring to the AFR going straight to 10 with no o2 correction when you hit WOT...for a couple seconds causing you to make almost no power but still build boost?


This could be because of EGT threshold. O2 is not going to make correction for a number that you've already specified from the ECU; because the number you're requesting is what the corrected value is.


:wave:


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

tojr1088 said:


> you need to have vvt resistored or plugged in and also your evap solenoid valve......those are the only two i needed.....even if u have no codes they still need to be plugged in or resistored to get you fuel trims


Like Tojr said you need that stuff plugged in or resistored. I'm pretty sure you need the VVT, SAI (n112) solenoid & evap connector resistored. Tojr says 2 but I was always told all 3 need to be done. Reason being is all those sensors share the same ECM pin; so if one sensor isn't connected it breaks the whole circuit

Is your N75 electronically plugged in or ressistored? This may matter as well.

You can't just go off the fact that you have no CEL. 1st make sure all your applicable o2/emissions diagnostic features are turned on. Depending on when/who gave you your tune they may not be. Even if they are a few fault codes are disabled regardless (you can see these in the FAULT CODE table).


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Is your N75 electronically plugged in or ressistored? This may matter as well.



I haven't had my n75 electronically plugged in for almost a year, just resistors on the deletes.

What negative side affects would the n75 have?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Dub-Nub said:


> I haven't had my n75 electronically plugged in for almost a year, just resistors on the deletes.
> 
> What negative side affects would the n75 have?


I hVent ran my n75 plugged in for a year now. No problems with o2 corrections, secondary air pump and evap were disconnected but not restored and o2 long term work just fine


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

N75 unplugged will throw a code but will not affect fuel trim. Vvt and evaporated solenoid for sure will tho. I've had good lluck without said tho


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> N75 unplugged will throw a code but will not affect fuel trim. Vvt and evaporated solenoid for sure will tho. I've had good lluck without said tho


Mine hasn't threw a code hmm weird


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

You guys are right, no need for n75. I guess I was thinking of stock/chip software where unplugging the n75 can result in limp mode; mine is still tucked away in the bay ever since I went mbc.

Codergfx is the code enabled/disabled in the fault code registry? I think Tapp designed the base file with consideration of mbc users and coded out the faults


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

codergfx said:


> My main question is say a file for AWW AWM AWP are they different? Or interflashable?
> 
> Ps: reason I use ful load lamba is because it uses engine load to control afr so i can vary my boost while driving and keep the afr under control. I use a greddy boost controller.


Sorry for the late reply, 

it wouldn't be as much as flashing it... but more of the Values for the desired tunes, then flashing the changes.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> You guys are right, no need for n75. I guess I was thinking of stock/chip software where unplugging the n75 can result in limp mode; mine is still tucked away in the bay ever since I went mbc.
> 
> Codergfx is the code enabled/disabled in the fault code registry? I think Tapp designed the base file with consideration of mbc users and coded out the faults


Yea I had the 630cc maffles file now running 840cc


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

How's that running Coder?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

screwball said:


> How's that running Coder?


Running not bad actually 032 block values 0.19% -2.18% (when i ran 630s ) I left it like that because I noticed percentage of ethanol varies between fill ups some times so long term will go between -+2%. Barely installed 840s yesterday, adjusted startup/idle fueling last nite seems to be right on the spot, idle more stable than 630s. It's drive able now, gonna adjust partial throttle fueling through out the next few days, then I'll do wot.

Update: 032 block, .28% 2.41%, now on 840s wot and partial throttle are good, gotta adjust cranking fuel now. Solid idle @ 14.7 - 15.0 afr


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

What is "pressure ratio to switch to unthrottled mode"? can't seem to find anything on this value nor what is does?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> What is "pressure ratio to switch to unthrottled mode"? can't seem to find anything on this value nor what is does?



been looking for that for a while... couldn't find anything I do know it isn't A switch to disable throttle control after the value was past related to actual boost. Basically I though at one point this might be a boost level you set to make the car go full throttle regardless of pedal position but that is NOT true.

I might try is out in a big parking lot one night but I'm really worried about messing with something with the words "unthrottled mode" in it and back out of my garage =P


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser said:


> been looking for that for a while... couldn't find anything I do know it isn't A switch to disable throttle control after the value was past related to actual boost. Basically I though at one point this might be a boost level you set to make the car go full throttle regardless of pedal position but that is NOT true.
> 
> I might try is out in a big parking lot one night but I'm really worried about messing with something with the words "unthrottled mode" in it and back out of my garage =P


Kind of in the same boat. I've been looking through some files from different users and they are all close to one another but still different. High 90's values. 

Also for those that want to run larger throttle bodies here it goes:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5545447-Frankenturbo-F23-dyno-with-Larger-Throttle-Body!


Now Like I said last time it isnt ideal what I did but hell it works and works rather well. Doug from Frankenturbo is kind enough to send me his brand new complete s4 maf. I will hook that up and populate the alpha N tables properly.

My only issue was timing being low. On the Dyno I said the hell with it and went into the minimum timing map and put in 24* of advance from 4000 rpms and on. I got 21* at 4500 and 22.5* from there on. Zero knock correction. I'll be revisiting the timing issue as I've found afew things in my 630 file that I think are holding it back. No time to test until Friday.

P.S. anyone want to send me the an updated file so I can look through it? 

svouyiou AT gmail DOT com


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Kind of in the same boat. I've been looking through some files from different users and they are all close to one another but still different. High 90's values.
> 
> Also for those that want to run larger throttle bodies here it goes:
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5545447-Frankenturbo-F23-dyno-with-Larger-Throttle-Body!
> ...


that's really the great thing about ME7.5 once you have it all figured out mathematically you can make changes like that very simply.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

spartiati said:


> What is "pressure ratio to switch to unthrottled mode"? can't seem to find anything on this value nor what is does?


I took it exactly as it states. A difference in pressure that the ECM sees to switch to unthrottled (DECEL) mode. Dunno if thats right but that was my interpetation


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

spartiati said:


> I'll be revisiting the timing issue as I've found afew things in my 630 file that I think are holding it back. No time to test until Friday.


Care to elaborate on your theories?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I took it exactly as it states. A difference in pressure that the ECM sees to switch to unthrottled (DECEL) mode. Dunno if thats right but that was my interpetation


So could this value be the cause of the car injecting fuel later after letting off?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

codergfx said:


> So could this value be the cause of the car injecting fuel later after letting off?


Maybe I really just guessing.

How long are your running rich?

I'm running a BOV and I run rich for .3 sec's while shifting. After that its fairly close A/F when changing gears.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Care to elaborate on your theories?


Mainly optimum engine torque. My last column (where 100% is) is under a load value of 234.xx while other files are around 190. No way in hell is my car hitting a load value remotely close to that so changing that and rescaling that map should help me out under full load. 

I'm not home now so im going off the top of my head. There are afew more things but that is probably the most pertinent one that comes to mind. I'll know more when I get some seat time in the car


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Maybe I really just guessing.
> 
> How long are your running rich?
> 
> I'm running a BOV and I run rich for .3 sec's while shifting. After that its fairly close A/F when changing gears.


I'm running maffles, and I'd say like 1secs, seems like drops towards 10-11 between shifts and when letting off, then it goes Into lean unthrottled mode.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Mainly optimum engine torque. My last column (where 100% is) is under a load value of 234.xx while other files are around 190. No way in hell is my car hitting a load value remotely close to that so changing that and rescaling that map should help me out under full load.
> 
> I'm not home now so im going off the top of my head. There are afew more things but that is probably the most pertinent one that comes to mind. I'll know more when I get some seat time in the car


How does power enrichment map work then because it goes over 100%? On the torque


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Not sure but afew of the files I've looked through have it set like that. I'm going to see what my highest load reading is and set it to just under that.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

The X axis of power enrichment is the value outputted by the acceleration pedal map.. you can request more then 100% torque.

I've also found out that the optimal torque map has an effect on the fueling mixture and timing optimization... You want the last col of the torque map to effectively follow your torque curve on a dyno, after peak torque with a BT set up I would just request 100%, on my stock turbo file I have it tail off a little to more match my load. 

I have last col of Torque map at 203 while I only request 193 in the last of my target filling.

I got that value because my actual load maxes at 205.1 at around 3500rpm right before my peak torque.

TooL: I don't think that can be true because if it was then you would also be entering unthrottled (DECEL) when you should be spooling up. It's a Ratio remember so it has to work both ways if it is labelled correct in maestro... Also how did you come to the conclusion that unthrottled meant DECEL I would just soon as think it would lead to a WOT condition as that's the most unthrottled position of the throttle body.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Not sure but afew of the files I've looked through have it set like that. I'm going to see what my highest load reading is and set it to just under that.


that's what I did and it has worked wonderfully after I modeled the last column after I dyno graph I had over my car from a few months ago. Still need some tweaking since the dyno isn't true to the torque curve but my fueling problem I had is disappearing and I'm finding I can throw more timing in under boost.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

spartiati said:


> Mainly optimum engine torque.





Cryser said:


> I've also found out that the optimal torque map has an effect on the fueling mixture and timing optimization... You want the last col of the torque map to effectively follow your torque curve on a dyno, after peak torque with a BT set up I would just request 100%, on my stock turbo file I have it tail off a little to more match my load.


It says straight in the map description this map is only used for calculation when lambda=1 I.E. 14.7 I.E. Part throttle. Pretty sure I read this in the bosch doc as well. Or not I haven't been keeping up with my reading.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

spartiati said:


> Mainly optimum engine torque. My last column (where 100% is) is under a load value of 234.xx while other files are around 190. No way in hell is my car hitting a load value remotely close to that so changing that and rescaling that map should help me out under full load.


Thats about what I had lowered mine to, also an adjustment to the 2nd to last column. I really can't say if it made a difference.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

anyone know if its possible to make no lift shifting only work when driving not standing in spot everytime you press the clutch?


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

codergfx said:


> anyone know if its possible to make no lift shifting only work when driving not standing in spot everytime you press the clutch?


i wish this was possible.. they have to change it so it only activates at WOT. i just have mine off. wotbox NLS works much better


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

anyone have a 75mm tb + sem manifold file? please pm me if you can send


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

spartiati said:


> Mainly optimum engine torque. My last column (where 100% is) is under a load value of 234.xx while other files are around 190. No way in hell is my car hitting a load value remotely close to that so changing that and rescaling that map should help me out under full load.
> 
> I'm not home now so im going off the top of my head. There are afew more things but that is probably the most pertinent one that comes to mind. I'll know more when I get some seat time in the car


So basically what you are going to do is set the requested or target load to a more realistic number closer to 190? I don't understand why a requested load value that overshoots actual load will negativly effect timing and/or boost.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Budsdubbin said:


> So basically what you are going to do is set the requested or target load to a more realistic number closer to 190? I don't understand why a requested load value that overshoots actual load will negativly effect timing and/or boost.


I am currently not reaching 100%. I im going to set it lower just to see how the car reacts when I actually meet and slightly overshoot the requested load.


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

Anyone know what can help with this issue.

On cold start my car goes straight to 800 rpm and does not idle at 1200 to warm up. Doesn't matter outside temps which would usually have this effect.

So in the morning it just goes straight to 800 rpm instead of warming up for a bit at 1200 RPM. what map would help fix this? Idle load?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

CASHBY III said:


> Anyone know what can help with this issue.
> 
> On cold start my car goes straight to 800 rpm and does not idle at 1200 to warm up. Doesn't matter outside temps which would usually have this effect.
> 
> So in the morning it just goes straight to 800 rpm instead of warming up for a bit at 1200 RPM. what map would help fix this? Idle load?


Mine doesn't go to 1200 maybe for 5 secs on a super cold morning


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

weird... it should warm up a bit.. mine does the same as yours... revs to 1200 for like 3-5 seconds then goes to normal 800. it should warm up at 1200.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

CASHBY III said:


> weird... it should warm up a bit.. mine does the same as yours... revs to 1200 for like 3-5 seconds then goes to normal 800. it should warm up at 1200.


Don't see that much of an issue to be honest lol but I believe you can adjust idle speed map and just leave last value 800 and change the ones with lower temp to 1200 or whatever. My idle is solid even with 840cc so I'm not complaining.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

codergfx said:


> Don't see that much of an issue to be honest lol but I believe you can adjust idle speed map and just leave last value 800 and change the ones with lower temp to 1200 or whatever. My idle is solid even with 840cc so I'm not complaining.


yeah the idle changes with the coolant temperature in that map.. i have mine to warm up at a higher rpm :thumbup:


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

Yea I have managed to get my fuel trims to .4 and .98 on my 750 (866cc @ 4bar which i am running). My idle is amazing.. sometimes i have to turn the radio off to make sure it is even on. it is smooth and quiet now!

Just have to tune WOT AFR and figure out my random timing pull issue.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

CASHBY III said:


> Yea I have managed to get my fuel trims to .4 and .98 on my 750 (866cc @ 4bar which i am running). My idle is amazing.. sometimes i have to turn the radio off to make sure it is even on. it is smooth and quiet now!
> 
> Just have to tune WOT AFR and figure out my random timing pull issue.


what injector constant?


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> what injector constant?


currently it is at .0423xxx IIRC


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Allright guys made some progress this weekend...... I think!?!?

I hooked up a new S4 MAF and recirculated my DV. I will post my calculated maps for Alpha N as well as throttle angle vs airflow map and then I will post what the Tracer showed. I am hesitant to believe that these values are accurate. They are seriously far off from even what the stock one shows. Also it seems like there are some values in Alpha N that are not and doesnt seem like they will ever be used. 


These are what my calculation gave me:



















This is what the MAF and the eurodyne tracer gave me:

















Does this seem right? I honestly am really hesitant to flashing this to the car. It doesnt seem like it is right. Even the shape is extremely far off from what the stock one looks like. Also this was an hour and a half drive with mixed highway full throttle pulls at 2 different psi levels and multiple loads. I let the tracer average the data and then applied those values to the alpha N and TB vs airflow tables. Any input on this guys?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I can't really input at all because I have yet to attempt tuning the alpha N or throttle vrs airflow maps. It seems to me that these values wouldn't work. It couldn't hurt to give those values a shot after a bit of smoothing. Baby it and see how it runs. How are your MAF readings? Do they look within reason?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Budsdubbin said:


> I can't really input at all because I have yet to attempt tuning the alpha N or throttle vrs airflow maps. It seems to me that these values wouldn't work. It couldn't hurt to give those values a shot after a bit of smoothing. Baby it and see how it runs. How are your MAF readings? Do they look within reason?



Yeah I was going to smooth it out before I would think of loading it, but it just doesnt seem to make sense that the values are that far off. Here is a part of the log. Idle and full throttle. Also it seems that afew of the cells on the throttle angle vs airflow map won't be utilized. The cells to the lower left hand of the map. Then again load values that high wouldn't really occur at rpms like that low I guess... IDK. I'll play around with smoothing it out tonight and try loading a file tomorrow. I'm just trying to make some progress on this whole situation. "Doing it the right way". I'll see how the car likes it tomorrow.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

I experience the same issue when doing logs with mad for alpha n and the tb vs airflow map. The values it read were really high, even with correct mad calibration.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

yeah car runs like ****. Stumbles and runs very poorly. 

Frustrating ...


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

What TB are you running? VR6? Trying posting actual CSV log files instead of pictures.

I had better luck populating AlphaN table with NO boost but even then MAF didn't help a lot but could tell you where to work. I told you already there is no "math" way to do this. If I was you, i would run that S4 MAF permanently and tune the car with it.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

mescaline said:


> What TB are you running? VR6? Trying posting actual CSV log files instead of pictures.
> 
> I had better luck populating AlphaN table with NO boost but even then MAF didn't help a lot but could tell you where to work. I told you already there is no "math" way to do this. If I was you, i would run that S4 MAF permanently and tune the car with it.


Not making any claims about my math. Lets put that to one to rest please.

anywho...

How do you tune with "no boost"? Just keep the car out of positive pressure? That'll work well for low rpms low load situations. How about high load high rpm situations. 

Can you email me that thing you mentioned that goes through long logs quicker unlike the tracer. I'll email you my CSV. 

[email protected]


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Not making any claims about my math. Lets put that to one to rest please.
> 
> anywho...
> 
> ...


You can undo the wastegate and set max VE to a load level where the engine couldn't make boost at high RPM/high load... that where I would start to get a start with no boost and adjust from there gradually adding wastegate pressure and load levels


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

spartiati, apparently AlphaN model doesn't include situations over 50% throttle. It just assumes full throttle from there and works off O2 or something. Not entirely sure how it works exactly.

About the script I use...it just corrects "Main fuel correction". I will publish it on the web soon.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Ill play around with it today.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

quick question. 

Pump gas timing vs race gas timing

Are they merely 2 seperate timing maps? In other words if you have both maps with identical values, does the race gas map run a more aggressive algorithm to try and reach requested timing values?


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Why would it? If you have the same values in both, nothing will change of course. It just switches between two timing maps you have in Maestro. You can basically make race gas timing map to run less timing than pump gas timing map. Those are just the names, there are no different algorithms.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

mescaline said:


> Why would it? If you have the same values in both, nothing will change of course. It just switches between two timing maps you have in Maestro. You can basically make race gas timing map to run less timing than pump gas timing map. Those are just the names, there are no different algorithms.


 that's what I thought... just making sure


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The tracing histogram works really well as a means to dial in fuel corrections. After clicking to "apply histogram values" taken from 10mins of driving, the car's on-the-road fuel trims are next to nothing now. Very cool feature in Maestro.

This is with an OEM MAF and INA 70mm throttle body.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> The tracing histogram works really well as a means to dial in fuel corrections. After clicking to "apply histogram values" taken from 10mins of driving, the car's on-the-road fuel trims are next to nothing now. Very cool feature in Maestro.
> 
> This is with an OEM MAF and INA 70mm throttle body.


Pay closer attention to histogram. Unless Chris fixed it in some of the latest versions of Maestro, histogram hops to one cell, applies the first collected log line to the cell and does nothing until it hops to another cell even though there are more lines of logs to apply to the current cell. I don't know if Chris intented for it to work that way (i don't know why he would) or it's a bug.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Another way to dial in TB (when you get close enough so that O2 starts correcting, note that if you are off by A LOT that O2 correction won't even work) is to use Primary fuel correction. Use histogram for this...from there you can calculate how to actually modify AlphaN so that primary fuel correction table stays as close to 1.0001 as possible.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

spartiati recommended I use the "average" setting for tracing, versus "most recent". But even on averaging-mode it records only the first datapoint for a given cell-range, and ignores all others until the sampling has moved to a new cell on the map? Interesting.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

if you use average then the histogram works fine for the main fuel correction. But From what I've gather most tuners prefer not to use that map to try and correct the mixture because it just really affect fuel trims. The map we have labeled as "main fuel correction" is basically the pre correction map. But there a few things "different" about it in maestro. 

First the map is a correction map not a lambda target map like it is displayed in maestro. The values "should" look and act like the acceleration map where a small increase enriches the mixtures and lowering the value leans it out and this effect should only be seen in actual lambda not target. 
The second problem is since it is displayed as a target lambda style map in maestro, has chris accounted for that fact and does lowering the value in maestro in fact raise the true value and enrich the mixture or not?

Last one I can figure out and plan to after I sort out some other issues.

I'm currently working on getting my opt torque spot on as I've found it has an effect on AFR and timing, the better and closer I get it on being true the closer my AFR follows target and the more timing the car lets in with less knock.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> The tracing histogram works really well as a means to dial in fuel corrections. After clicking to "apply histogram values" taken from 10mins of driving, the car's on-the-road fuel trims are next to nothing now. Very cool feature in Maestro.
> 
> This is with an OEM MAF and INA 70mm throttle body.


Was this only doing part throttle? And how did you apply histogram values? Using average function?


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

spartiati said:


> Can you email me that thing you mentioned that goes through long logs quicker unlike the tracer. I'll email you my CSV.
> 
> [email protected]


Try this, i just slapped it quickly: http://motronic.rimad.net/

Just export existing Main fuel correction map from Maestro into bin file and upload it on that site with CSV log file and you will get a new, corrected bin file which you can import into Maestro again.

I plan to further expand that site with some sort of wiki and maybe a few files.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

mescaline said:


> Try this, i just slapped it quickly: http://motronic.rimad.net/
> 
> Just export existing Main fuel correction map from Maestro into bin file and upload it on that site with CSV log file and you will get a new, corrected bin file which you can import into Maestro again.
> 
> I plan to further expand that site with some sort of wiki and maybe a few files.


Thanks for this, I just gave it a shot and got a quite different end result from my log file. I'm gonna give this a try and see how it works out vs the maestro generated results :beer:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

mescaline said:


> Try this, i just slapped it quickly: http://motronic.rimad.net/
> 
> Just export existing Main fuel correction map from Maestro into bin file and upload it on that site with CSV log file and you will get a new, corrected bin file which you can import into Maestro again.
> 
> I plan to further expand that site with some sort of wiki and maybe a few files.


cool. Ill give it a try later.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

mescaline said:


> spartiati, apparently AlphaN model doesn't include situations over 50% throttle. It just assumes full throttle from there and works off O2 or something. Not entirely sure how it works exactly.
> 
> About the script I use...it just corrects "Main fuel correction". I will publish it on the web soon.


I was under the impression that the MAF was used mainly for idle and part throttle calculations only.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

mescaline said:


> Another way to dial in TB (when you get close enough so that O2 starts correcting, note that if you are off by A LOT that O2 correction won't even work) is to use Primary fuel correction. Use histogram for this...from there you can calculate how to actually modify AlphaN so that primary fuel correction table stays as close to 1.0001 as possible.


But how can you corrolate the values input into the alphaN map with primary fuel if the values have no true definition. how are you calculating it?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> I was under the impression that the MAF was used mainly for idle and part throttle calculations only.


Keyword is mainly or mostly... the MAF still does have an affect at WOT, since ME7.5 is in closed loop at WOT it does use the MAF to calculate load


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> But how can you corrolate the values input into the alphaN map with primary fuel if the values have no true definition. how are you calculating it?


Well you have existing AlphaN and Main fuel correction maps...and then you have O2 corrections and target AFR. You can either adjust Main fuel correction or AlphaN to reach target AFR without O2 correction having to interfere too much. Closer to 0% o2 correction, the better. Of course you can NEVER get it to 0% because of large number of situations that your vehicle can get itself into. Those maps would have to be pretty large to cover them all 

So on mafless file, if you run too rich...it means that ECU is injecting too much fuel..probably because it thinks that more air entered the engine then it did...so time to lower AlphaN values....or vice versa. Apparently AlphaN and Throttle angle vs. airflow should mirror each other.

It's REALLY not a problem to tune ME7, it's a very logical system. It's just lack of information that is painful and you always wonder if you missed something, somewhere. Information on ME7 is still very well guarded by tuning industry. Obiovusly not even Chris Tapp dares to publish too much information on those maps. There are still many maps in Maestro missing descriptions and those that have some sort of descriptions are pretty useless really.


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

mescaline said:


> Obiovusly not even Chris Tapp dares to publish too much information on those maps. There are still many maps in Maestro missing descriptions and those that have some sort of descriptions are pretty useless really.


I totally agree :banghead:


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm planning on buying some street cams, what specific maps would I need to modify to get full potential of em?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

mescaline said:


> Well you have existing AlphaN and Main fuel correction maps...and then you have O2 corrections and target AFR. You can either adjust Main fuel correction or AlphaN to reach target AFR without O2 correction having to interfere too much. Closer to 0% o2 correction, the better. Of course you can NEVER get it to 0% because of large number of situations that your vehicle can get itself into. Those maps would have to be pretty large to cover them all
> 
> So on mafless file, if you run too rich...it means that ECU is injecting too much fuel..probably because it thinks that more air entered the engine then it did...so time to lower AlphaN values....or vice versa. Apparently AlphaN and Throttle angle vs. airflow should mirror each other.
> 
> It's REALLY not a problem to tune ME7, it's a very logical system. It's just lack of information that is painful and you always wonder if you missed something, somewhere. Information on ME7 is still very well guarded by tuning industry. Obiovusly not even Chris Tapp dares to publish too much information on those maps. There are still many maps in Maestro missing descriptions and those that have some sort of descriptions are pretty useless really.




And the floodgates have opened for this guy . Wow I can't believe I overlooked that the alpha n map is a prediction of air mass. I had no idea those numbers pertained to air mass. So this is way my buddies stage 2 tune has a main fuel map completely filled with 1.00001. Which makes sense why you would want to use the alpha n map to tune for 02 correction. Which leads me to the next question why use the main fuel correction map?


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Main fuel correction map that is in Maestro is not even used normally in ME7. On stock files it's all set to 1.0001. The original Bosch map name is KFLF I think. It's apparently a correction factor used in pre-algorithm calculations of fueling. Ideally this SHOULD be kept at 1.

Chris Tapp changed how those big turbo files work a LOT. He said it's easier this way. However there are indications that this is not his original design because Unitronic uses the same approach when tuning. I don't care who did it, i just want to know how it works because every single time i find some piece of information one ME7...it somehow doesn't apply to Maestro in the same way.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> And the floodgates have opened for this guy . Wow I can't believe I overlooked that the alpha n map is a prediction of air mass. I had no idea those numbers pertained to air mass. So this is way my buddies stage 2 tune has a main fuel map completely filled with 1.00001. Which makes sense why you would want to use the alpha n map to tune for 02 correction. Which leads me to the next question why use the main fuel correction map?


So instead of doing corrections on my main fuel map, I could just do same corrections on alpha N instead?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

codergfx said:


> So instead of doing corrections on my main fuel map, I could just do same corrections on alpha N instead?


Correct the main fuel correction map should stay close to 1.0001 across the map... Which I was confused about before... That map will not be as direct when tuning for fuel correction as the alpha n map for obvious reasons. The labels of these maps are a bit misleading. Thanks for clearing that up mescaline!

No wonder he's getting so many call backs regarding maestro. Tapps a good guy but man did he make it hard on himself not coming up with a more descriptive definition of each map.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Correct the main fuel correction map should stay close to 1.0001 across the map... Which I was confused about before... That map will not be as direct when tuning for fuel correction as the alpha n map for obvious reasons. The labels of these maps are a bit misleading. Thanks for clearing that up mescaline!
> 
> No wonder he's getting so many call backs regarding maestro. Tapps a good guy but man did he make it hard on himself not coming up with a more descriptive definition of each map.


Do the values between alpha n and main fuel cor, correlate in 1:1 fashion or say 20% in main fuel correction map would equal a different number in alpha n In same load cell.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

No If your o2 correction shows a correction of -10% in a given cell then we have to remove the amount of Air predicted. Again the map for alpha N isn't the actual number of air molecules like mescaline's post informed us, according to tapp its just a model or map for the ecu to work with (set of numbers used in an equation) so theres no way of actually calculating from 02 corrections how much of the values in each cell need to be changed (if they were actual predictions of air mass values then it wouldn't be 1:1 it would be more like 14.7:1.... 

But that is irrelavent.... All we really know is what direction to change the values. If there is fuel being taken away then we need to reduce the value of that cell. I'm sure theres a bit of trial and error involved but once you get a feel for the changes that you make and how they effect fueling your gold. I'm sure this is what Tapp ment by; some may call it guessing, others call it tuning. 

Am I understanding this fully mescaline?



~~~~~~

I almost forgot that post about tapp isn't in this thread




mescaline said:


> Here is a useful conversation i had with Chris Tapp (who is a very stand up guy altho' sometimes arrogant because people bother him too much  ).
> 
> Chris Tapp:The Alpha N map values are not actual airflow values that will correspond to what you will measure with the maf exactly.
> They are standardised values that model the airflow through the throttle and manifold under a set of specific conditions...
> ...


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

mescaline said:


> Main fuel correction map that is in Maestro is not even used normally in ME7. On stock files it's all set to 1.0001. The original Bosch map name is KFLF I think. It's apparently a correction factor used in pre-algorithm calculations of fueling. Ideally this SHOULD be kept at 1.
> 
> Chris Tapp changed how those big turbo files work a LOT. He said it's easier this way. However there are indications that this is not his original design because Unitronic uses the same approach when tuning. I don't care who did it, i just want to know how it works because every single time i find some piece of information one ME7...it somehow doesn't apply to Maestro in the same way.


ME7 was never meant to be tuned MAFLESS hence why lots of the literature describes how to do things quite differently and even using different maps then maestro's map titles would lead you to believe =)

Personally I'll be using a MAF for my BT build because of what I have learned through using maestro on the stock turbo.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Cryser said:


> ME7 was never meant to be tuned MAFLESS hence why lots of the literature describes how to do things quite differently and even using different maps then maestro's map titles would lead you to believe =)
> 
> Personally I'll be using a MAF for my BT build because of what I have learned through using maestro on the stock turbo.


you may go through mafs like every year :laugh:




spartiati said:


> yeah car runs like ****. Stumbles and runs very poorly.
> 
> Frustrating ...


perhaps the reason why your tracer isn't working correctly is because of the fact that these values cannot be traced. They are not actual data values that are predictions to the MAF's readings but data formed into a model of predicted airflow (not real values). With that being said I don't know how using a maf to calibrate that map will help at all.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> you may go through mafs like every year :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've been running maffless on my bt and couldnt be happier... Fueling is almost spot on and timing is getting there.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Ideally you would want your airflow prediction model to be so perfect that when you for example use MAF and then disconnect it, your fuel trims should stay the same. 

And yes, apparently the only way to tune AlphaN is to keep dialing in blindly until it's spot on. You can from this see how messy it is to tune mafless files. If you use main fuel correction map for this and later decide to throw maf on, your fueling will be all over the place and you will have to tune it all over again.
This is what stock file does. It uses MAF for perfect air mass measurement but in case maf fails, it throws error and uses the same model to predict air mass until you change faulty maf sensor.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Budsdubbin said:


> And the floodgates have opened for this guy . Wow I can't believe I overlooked that the alpha n map is a prediction of air mass. I had no idea those numbers pertained to air mass. So this is way my buddies stage 2 tune has a main fuel map completely filled with 1.00001. Which makes sense why you would want to use the alpha n map to tune for 02 correction. Which leads me to the next question why use the main fuel correction map?


Why use it ? because we are running MAFLESS. ALPHA-N is for part throttle calculated air mass. Otherwise (correct me if I'm wrong) the only correction done would be by adaptive fueling which is based on A/F AFTER combustion has happened. The car would be playing catchup all the time (although its doing that now BUT we are able to adjust injected value to be closer to desired).

Main fuel correction is a pre-applied factor that goes into the required fuel calculation. Maybe not the way it was originally designed but it works and works fairly well.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Budsdubbin said:


> No wonder he's getting so many call backs regarding maestro. Tapps a good guy but man did he make it hard on himself not coming up with a more descriptive definition of each map.


Haha yeah he sure did. I think we are getting to him, an update to the help file is coming, hopefully the descriptions get updated too.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

spartiati said:


> yeah car runs like ****. Stumbles and runs very poorly.
> 
> Frustrating ...


I assuem stumbling MAFLESS w/ the new ALpha N values? 

Any more progress?

And how did switching to the MAF feel? I want to throw mine on but I need to chop up my intake so it fits


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I assuem stumbling MAFLESS w/ the new ALpha N values?
> 
> Any more progress?
> 
> And how did switching to the MAF feel? I want to throw mine on but I need to chop up my intake so it fits


Well it stumbled when I tried using the edited files provided by me tuning with the MAF. It runs good on MAF. Timing and AFR are about the same. Part throttle is better.

Since that file I have done loads of tweaking to the original Alpha N and tb vs airflow values. I have it running damn good with no MAF. Full throttle is +- 3 and idle is +-1-2. At part throttle and at HIGH loads and low rpms corrections are much higher. Once I dial those in I'll take be much better off. This weekend I'll get around to it. Otherwise this thing is running almost perfect. 

Still trying to figure out the timing issue. Actual is usually much lower than requested. Even with no knock correction.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Re. timing advance shy of requested:

I have a sneaking suspicion this is owing to engine load. Steve -- can you forward me some recent logs? I want to see what your MAFless load values are vs. mine running a MAF.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

you'll have it in your email in afew. The log was of last night of my totally redone Alpha N and TB angle vs airflow and totally reset Main fuel correction. Check it out under full load and idle. Damn near perfect with no tweaking. Gotta fix that part throttle a touch but much better overall considering I haven't done any corrections.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> Re. timing advance shy of requested:
> 
> I have a sneaking suspicion this is owing to engine load. Steve -- can you forward me some recent logs? I want to see what your MAFless load values are vs. mine running a MAF.



I think its alot more complicated than that....


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Why use it ? because we are running MAFLESS. ALPHA-N is for part throttle calculated air mass. Otherwise (correct me if I'm wrong) the only correction done would be by adaptive fueling which is based on A/F AFTER combustion has happened. The car would be playing catchup all the time (although its doing that now BUT we are able to adjust injected value to be closer to desired).
> 
> Main fuel correction is a pre-applied factor that goes into the required fuel calculation. Maybe not the way it was originally designed but it works and works fairly well.


We are not talking about WOT situations... We are talking about the fact that the alpha N has a more direct effect on fueling in part throttle situations (normal everyday driving). We initially started this discussion because spartiati upgraded to a vr6 throttle body and has had a rough time dialing it in. Using the alpha N you should get your main fueling map as close to 1.0001 as possible.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Wouldn't the injector constant affect your alpha n values?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Car is running almost perfect at full throttle now in terms of fuel. The corrections are minimal. Sub 5 in terms of full load correction. Part throttle is in the high teens for the time being. I will try and correct that via alpha n and see how it goes.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> Wouldn't the injector constant affect your alpha n values?


In a way yes but your BVC and injector constant should be set before you attempt calibrating the alpha N (If you go about trying to populate the aphla N map without having the right BVC and IC values it would be pointless to even attempt it) . Injector constant needs to be a set value that is calculated not adjusted.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

spartiati said:


> Car is running almost perfect at full throttle now in terms of fuel. The corrections are minimal. Sub 5 in terms of full load correction. Part throttle is in the high teens for the time being. I will try and correct that via alpha n and see how it goes.


If you can let is in on the changes that you've made and why that would be great for this thread.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Budsdubbin said:


> We are not talking about WOT situations... We are talking about the fact that the alpha N has a more direct effect on fueling in part throttle situations (normal everyday driving). We initially started this discussion because spartiati upgraded to a vr6 throttle body and has had a rough time dialing it in. Using the alpha N you should get your main fueling map as close to 1.0001 as possible.


Well in that case....main fuel correction is not active at part throttle, so no you shouldn't be using it.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Budsdubbin said:


> If you can let is in on the changes that you've made and why that would be great for this thread.


I took the alpha n from a newer file which had more resolution in the mid range and its matching TB angle vs airflow.

I applied the general % increase to the cells in alpha n excluding zero and 100% loads. 
In the TB angle vs airflow I did not not thecells in the map. I changed the values in the y axis on the left hand side to correspond to the values from alpha n and that was it. I have some dialing in to do in the mid range but full throttle and idle is perfect. Ill try and post it up in a bit. 

Well full load on spool up needs some adjusting but generally its pretty solid. Also the main fuel correction was reset back to 1.001 everywhere. I'll dial in o2 correction via alpha n for the midrange .

When I get a break here at work I'll post it up..


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Idle Log












Cruisin on the highway 












Full throttle


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

did you use the tracer or did you make your own adjustments based on what you were seeing with the tracer? Also are you using you maf while doing this adjustment?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I have made zero corrections aside from my wrong way of simply measuring the area difference (in my case 28%) and applying that to the proper places. I have played with the Maf but for now I am going to be going with no Maf for the time being.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

You can run more timing but that you can adjust later on when you are done with fueling/flowmeter. You can dial in AlphaN some more, it still pulls lots of fuel part throttle (i would say +/-8%+ constantly through rpms is worth adjusting). Your WOT run seems to be pretty good : -)

Now this is you stepping from stock ro vr6 TB right? You can imagen what a nightmare this is to a novice tuner that installs 80mm HEMI TB and tries to dial a file that was meant for stock TB. You gotta dial with driveability issues as well, it kinda becomes an on/off switch.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Completely agree with timing. I am requesting about 24 but the end result is 19-21* up top. That will be addressed after the alpha n is fine tuned . Mescaline I. Haven't adjusted it yet. I will have time to play with it on Friday. Hopefully ill get it done by the weekend .


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Completely agree with timing. I am requesting about 24 but the end result is 19-21* up top. That will be addressed after the alpha n is fine tuned . Mescaline I. Haven't adjusted it yet. I will have time to play with it on Friday. Hopefully ill get it done by the weekend .


anyone have any idea good timing for e85? up top?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

madmax was running e85 in his stock tt225 running 30+psi and was able to get around 30* up top. That's pushing it. I would personally test it on a dyno to make sure you find the point of diminishing returns in terms of power.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

spartiati said:


> madmax was running e85 in his stock tt225 running 30+psi and was able to get around 30* up top. That's pushing it. I would personally test it on a dyno to make sure you find the point of diminishing returns in terms of power.


im currently running 18psi with 29-30 degrees top end. is the fuel trims get reset everytime... anyway around that? unless using quick tune to increase overall timing? then go in to maestro and finalize the increase?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

What do you mean the fuel trim gets reset? 

29-30* advance up top is great. make sure knock correction is in check and then try and get some dyno time. Worth every penny. Try running 28* up top and see how much power it makes. Then try 30*. If it makes more power there you go. If you make the same power then just run the 28 and save the stress on the motor.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

everytime you flash the car the fuel trims are going to be reset, you can't get around that.

also too if your egt threshold is set too low, your car will never develop fuel trims since it is running off the BTS(Full load lambda) map full time.


Last time I used quick tune it would throw a code for the ecu being bad. Anything you can change in quick tune you can change with more precision and definition in the actual maestro program.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

spartiati said:


> What do you mean the fuel trim gets reset?
> 
> 29-30* advance up top is great. make sure knock correction is in check and then try and get some dyno time. Worth every penny. Try running 28* up top and see how much power it makes. Then try 30*. If it makes more power there you go. If you make the same power then just run the 28 and save the stress on the motor.


I have 0 knock all across the board beauty of e85. I've ran it on accident upwards to 30+ psi and no knock. ThT was @ 24 degrees though. Maxed out injectors and fuel pump out @ 6k...


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Cryser said:


> everytime you flash the car the fuel trims are going to be reset, you can't get around that.
> 
> also too if your egt threshold is set too low, your car will never develop fuel trims since it is running off the BTS(Full load lambda) map full time.
> 
> ...


Would there be any plus not running main fuel trims? Say if you already have idle/ part throttle @ +-1% correction in block 032.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser said:


> everytime you flash the car the fuel trims are going to be reset, you can't get around that.
> 
> also too if your egt threshold is set too low, your car will never develop fuel trims since it is running off the BTS(Full load lambda) map full time.
> 
> ...


What else does the EGT threshold affect?


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## Mr.Miranda (Sep 19, 2008)

Hey Guys,

Does anyone have a good working file for a 75mm Throttle body running EV 844cc Injectors and a GT30R Turbo? Or can someone help me adjust my file?

Arnold sent me a base file for my EV14 840cc Injectors but Im running 25% on bock 32. I did a pressure test and there are no boost leaks at all. Also checked exhaust leaks and found none. My whole exhaust system is V-banded including manifold and wastegate and Turbo back.

Also when I come to a stop my RPM needle slowly starts going up and when it reaches 2k It automatically goes down right away. 

I would love to run with a MAF, I have couple of maf sensor housing laying around so I can use one of the following. APR Housing, S4 Housing & Sensor, TT225 Housing & Sensor


Thank you!


Mods:

GT30R
840cc EV14 Injectors / Maestro Tuned
AEB Head
75mm RS4 TB
SEM Manifold big port
3 bar FPR
Tial 38mm Wastegate
Tial 50mm BOV

3" Exhaust
2.5" IC piping


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Throw in a Mac or start tweaking alpha n and TB angle vs airflow maps tongetbit to run right.


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

So what map are you using to tune WOT? My idle and part throttle is perfect now but my WOT needs to be tuned. I get random ass timing pull no matter what I change my timing to in those cells so it is weird. 

What other maps do you guys mess with?


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## guy022077 (Feb 25, 2004)

maestro 7 AEB 1281 init failed, have only 2 people had this problem?
i googled and found this 
http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?p=953&sid=8e1b5b25ceb94e2b2827c77a6910bb46

which states this 

If you have a 99.5 or earlier A4 and are using Ecu type: 256K M3.8/5.9, Then you cannot use the Read Settings function. The ecu type doesn't support it.

assuming this is true, what do i do now? and how do i read the ecu to continue following the eurodyne directions?

im on the supported vehicle list 

All Audi B5 AEB 1.8T with ME3.8/5.9 ECU’s
i am far from the first person to do this, but it looks like nobody else has posted about this.


im hoping i am just doing something stupid and you guys will just say " oh you aeb-er you forgot to _______"


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

the egt threshold activates some maps that effect timing which we have no access to atm.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser said:


> the egt threshold activates some maps that effect timing which we have no access to atm.


So would it be better if the egt threshold is met or not met for best timing?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

My Stage 3 file came from C.Tapp with the threshold set to 899˚c, basically deactivating it. So that means it is operating under "Full Load" versus what? "Power Enrichment"? If I were to lower that level to ~700˚, would timing advance be changed for the better?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

spartiati said:


> I have made zero corrections aside from my wrong way of simply measuring the area difference (in my case 28%) and applying that to the proper places


care to elaborate a bit more on this.... I assume your measurements were off a bit which through off your calculation but what do you mean by applying them to the proper places?



spartiati said:


> So would it be better if the egt threshold is met or not met for best timing?


Good question... Is the etg threshold pertaining to a safe mode or identifying full load.......


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

not met, the egt thershold is for when component protection should activate. Maestro uses this fuel map as a full load lambda map and just ignores the timing changes.

Doug what do your power enrichment and full load lambda maps look like?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Cryser said:


> not met, the egt thershold is for when component protection should activate. Maestro uses this fuel map as a full load lambda map and just ignores the timing changes.
> 
> Doug what do your power enrichment and full load lambda maps look like?


Are the protection timing maps you guys speak of, we are able to see in maestro or no? Once the threshold
Has been reached? Also I just looked over one of my logs and I do not see the timing issues you guys all talk about.
33.76-34.50 degrees top end and starting from 25 degrees @ 3900rpm steady climb


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Very interesting since my file came stock with it set to 522* ... basically even cruising on the highway this thing was already surpassing the egt threshold. I really am unsure what's really going on with my file. I'm honing in my alpha n and after afew more tweaks ill be pretty set in terms of that. My requested from 6000+ is 24* but I am seeing 18.5-19.5 at this point. Zero corrections. Car pulls nice and hard still but I know its got plenty more.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

codergfx said:


> Are the protection timing maps you guys speak of, we are able to see in maestro or no? Once the threshold
> Has been reached? Also I just looked over one of my logs and I do not see the timing issues you guys all talk about.
> 33.76-34.50 degrees top end and starting from 25 degrees @ 3900rpm steady climb


The "maps" are part of the "LAMBTS" module. LAMBTS is the BOSCH module that maestro uses. In this module there are built in algorithims that cross check the effciency of lambda, spark effciency, fuel effciency, (maybe torque effciency I forget). The differences in desired vs. actual are then spit into an alghorithem that affects power output. We have no control over this nor do I know that these crosschecks or even implemented in maestro (anyone actually ask Tapp?). Once your o2 sensor warms up and passes the EGT threshold it goes form the cold start map to the lambts map.

I'm not sure if TAPP's intention by raising the EGT threshold in the beta Stg. III file is for avoiding "Full Load Lambda Fueling" or is it a REVISED recalculation of EGT because once you changed exhaust size and turbo size OEM EGT calculation is out the window. Has anyone asked Tapp this? ANyone know what temp a stock BOSCH car switches off of cold start mapping?


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

So you are saying to increase the EGT threshold? mine is currently set to like 5xx. Wonder if this is affecting my timing pull issue.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

CASHBY III said:


> So you are saying to increase the EGT threshold? mine is currently set to like 5xx. Wonder if this is affecting my timing pull issue.


I'm not saying anything other than to provide some clarification. Personally I will sacrifice 3 degrees of timing to know if something goes afunk my engine can protect itself. It has not been explained to me weather if/how/what features/corrections/interventions/safeguards are enabled/disabled when the LAMBTS mode is not active. 

**If your not hitting desired timing its most likely because your Air/Fuel/Spark Advance/Torque Control are not calibrated 100% as this is how the Bosch model works.

All I know is the original intent was for Maestro to use LAMBTS as its fueling module. Whatever path Eurodyne or Unitronic use is good enough for me. Some people think they can do it better a different way, maybe Eurodyne thinks its a better way to; which is why I asked if anyone could answer my previous question: Are the stg.III beta file EGT Threshold recalculated for Big Turbos or are they specifically changed to avoid using the Full Load Lambda map?


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

LAMBTS (Lambda for Component Protection) is not a module, it's just a set of maps that are triggered under certain conditions. It's generally understood that BTS is activated when over certain exhaust gas temperature to richen the mixture and cool down turbocharger, catalytic converter and so on. Otherwise LAMFA map is controlling the mixture.

Looks like Chris Tapp is simplifying this by setting EGT threshold low enough so it's always used.

Also there is no "cold start mapping". There are maps that affect the mixture based on coolant temperature but there is no complete seperate mapping for cold engine.

I wouldn't change EGT threshold on those files. I don't think it will matter at all. Eurodyne is using same approach when tuning for big turbos as Unitronic (this is confirmed first hand), which leads me to think that it wasn't originally their idea to begin with.

This really doesn't matter to me to be honest as long as Chris Tapp provides some information on how this actually works and what he was thinking. There is lots of misleading information in this very thread and I am also scared to write anything about it because I could also be wrong. No one knows for sure...


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

mescaline said:


> There is lots of misleading information in this very thread and I am also scared to write anything about it because I could also be wrong. No one knows for sure...



hence why I'm not releasing stuff I've been working... I know it works with a MAF with my modified k03s and my car but I don't have a full understanding of everything and I'm not gonna repeat the mistake again like I did with LAMFA (releasing info before I know 100% that it's correct) leads to too much backwards work and misleading information.

Stock for the 1.8T the egt threshold is 600*C... my stock file had it set at 447(basically always on) I would never get fuel trims (they would always be 0 and never changed confirmed by logging for 15min drive) 

I have raised mine to 600 and use LAMFA(power enrichment for fuel) and that solved the problem I was having with timing not reaching full amounts

I don't think we have any way of changing how the calculated EGT of the engine is calibrated. For you guys with the higher EGT numbers is your what are the X axis of your LAMFA(power enrich) map and is it populated with what looks like an actual fuel curve or does it look like AFR is being controlled with full load lambda and are you getting fuel trimming in block 32?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I had tested the egt at levels from 450- 900. Even at 900 it was running off full load lambda. Egt must trigger something else cause mine runs full load whenever my foot is to the floor. 

I've tried changing also the mixture at idle and very light loads to 15.5:1 just to see if it would run it but no matter what it runs at 14.7 I was shooting for a leaner mixture at the time since I worked elsewhere that had no subway access and wanted to get as much MPG as I could get. That failed so back to stock 1.001 it went. Anyone know where I might possibly be able to lean that out some?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I had tested the egt at levels from 450- 900. Even at 900 it was running off full load lambda. Egt must trigger something else cause mine runs full load whenever my foot is to the floor.
> 
> I've tried changing also the mixture at idle and very light loads to 15.5:1 just to see if it would run it but no matter what it runs at 14.7 I was shooting for a leaner mixture at the time since I worked elsewhere that had no subway access and wanted to get as much MPG as I could get. That failed so back to stock 1.001 it went. Anyone know where I might possibly be able to lean that out some?


we don't have access to the correct variable to do what you are asking Spartiati.

there is a variable that allows you to change the range the 02 sensor goes between when it's switching stock it's like 14.5-14.8 or something to do what you were trying to do you would have to change this value to something like 14.7-15.2 or something.

The car is always going to naturally target 14.7 then change that value based on the fueling algo.

Alternatively you might be able to mess with the main fuel correct so that the car trims so much fuel out at lower loads your actually at 15.5 while still targeting 14.7 but I'm not even sure if that would work or how extreme you would need to adjust the map to achieve this.


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I'm not saying anything other than to provide some clarification. Personally I will sacrifice 3 degrees of timing to know if something goes afunk my engine can protect itself. It has not been explained to me weather if/how/what features/corrections/interventions/safeguards are enabled/disabled when the LAMBTS mode is not active.
> 
> **If your not hitting desired timing its most likely because your Air/Fuel/Spark Advance/Torque Control are not calibrated 100% as this is how the Bosch model works.
> 
> All I know is the original intent was for Maestro to use LAMBTS as its fueling module. Whatever path Eurodyne or Unitronic use is good enough for me. Some people think they can do it better a different way, maybe Eurodyne thinks its a better way to; which is why I asked if anyone could answer my previous question: Are the stg.III beta file EGT Threshold recalculated for Big Turbos or are they specifically changed to avoid using the Full Load Lambda map?



Yea it seems i never hit requested timing. As far as the TQ maps.. what did you change on those? For the WOT air/fuel did you tune with the main fuel correction map? Also I checked my EGT threshold and it is at 522. Currently have a 2 liter with gt3071r if that helps.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I'm not sure if TAPP's intention by raising the EGT threshold in the beta Stg. III file is for avoiding "Full Load Lambda Fueling" or is it a REVISED recalculation of EGT because once you changed exhaust size and turbo size OEM EGT calculation is out the window. Has anyone asked Tapp this? ANyone know what temp a stock BOSCH car switches off of cold start mapping?


Not sure how a changed exhaust housing or manifold would effect EGT readings.... Other than a restriction in front of the probe. It has everything to do with either full load lambda or a safe mode (I don't know which). The ecu uses coolant temp to switch off cold start I'm 99% sure of this.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

EGT is not measured in most 1.8T's it is calculated by the ecu, even those that do measure EGT use the calculated value for the EGT threshold switch. The algorythmn to calculate your EGT involves a constant(s) that is affected by the inner diameter of your exhaust pipe, this constant can not be change that I know even by the people doing this with winOLS etc. So when your increasing the size of your downpipe and exhaust you are effectively making this calculation flawed. Chris Tapp and everyone who uses this method of tuning realize this and set EGT threshold very low so that it is basically always on when your on the throttle and in boost.

Bouch used the EGT threshold method for tuning the car from the factory, but you also have to remember max power wasn't their goal fuel economy was. This method of tuning keeps the car at 14.7 as long as possible until the components of the engine couldn't take the heat anymore, then it would add fuel to cool things off until the engine cooled off.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser said:


> we don't have access to the correct variable to do what you are asking Spartiati.
> 
> there is a variable that allows you to change the range the 02 sensor goes between when it's switching stock it's like 14.5-14.8 or something to do what you were trying to do you would have to change this value to something like 14.7-15.2 or something.
> 
> ...


That's what I figured. I wouldn't want to cut fuel so much from the main correction just to hit the slightly leaner AFR. Woulda been cool though I'm sure it would help squeeze some more mileage out of the car. Also I'm sure it's safe (keeping egt's in mind) running a touch leaner. If only we had access to that. 

Finally got an upgraded file with the cam timing active in my car. It helps spool my turbo even faster (maybe 200rpms). Im seeing 20 psi by 3050-3100rpms whereas before it was 3250-3300 (in 4th gear). Still trying to work out this timing. The new file was suppose to address that but it still seems low. I have to get acquainted with the new cam timing maps.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

spartiati said:


> That's what I figured. I wouldn't want to cut fuel so much from the main correction just to hit the slightly leaner AFR. Woulda been cool though I'm sure it would help squeeze some more mileage out of the car. Also I'm sure it's safe (keeping egt's in mind) running a touch leaner. If only we had access to that.
> 
> Finally got an upgraded file with the cam timing active in my car. It helps spool my turbo even faster (maybe 200rpms). Im seeing 20 psi by 3050-3100rpms whereas before it was 3250-3300 (in 4th gear). Still trying to work out this timing. The new file was suppose to address that but it still seems low. I have to get acquainted with the new cam timing maps.


Did u email Chris to get the file?


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## Mr.Miranda (Sep 19, 2008)

Hey guys anyone with a 75mm TB file for EV14 840cc Injectors and GT30R?

Im running 25% on block 032. Please help. Thanks


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

Mr.Miranda said:


> Hey guys anyone with a 75mm TB file for EV14 840cc Injectors and GT30R?
> 
> Im running 25% on block 032. Please help. Thanks


Have you tried to tune anything yet?

First thing is you need to dial in Injector constant, Batter voltage compensation and min injector pulsewidth. 

i have about the same exact set up as you but on an audi.. same ****. 

Injector constant = .0443 currently
BVC- go into injector wizard and use the EV 14 profile. should work fine.
Min inj pulse- mine is set to .39


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> That's what I figured. I wouldn't want to cut fuel so much from the main correction just to hit the slightly leaner AFR. Woulda been cool though I'm sure it would help squeeze some more mileage out of the car. Also I'm sure it's safe (keeping egt's in mind) running a touch leaner. If only we had access to that.
> 
> Finally got an upgraded file with the cam timing active in my car. It helps spool my turbo even faster (maybe 200rpms). Im seeing 20 psi by 3050-3100rpms whereas before it was 3250-3300 (in 4th gear). Still trying to work out this timing. The new file was suppose to address that but it still seems low. I have to get acquainted with the new cam timing maps.


so your using VVT to make power or help spool?

hmmm still wondering if I should go through the trouble of adding VVT to my AEB head if it's even possible.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Cryser said:


> so your using VVT to make power or help spool?
> 
> hmmm still wondering if I should go through the trouble of adding VVT to my AEB head if it's even possible.


Its not even a question if are going to run a laggy turbo. Did you see my spool charts? 800+ RPM reduction in turbo spool on a T3/T4










***These are PRE-Intercooler measurements***


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

CASHBY III said:


> Have you tried to tune anything yet?
> 
> First thing is you need to dial in Injector constant, Batter voltage compensation and min injector pulsewidth.
> 
> ...


Not all Audi's are the same. Returnless setups run 4BAR fuel pressure stock which will lead to different injector constant numbers.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I'm gonna be running a 2.0L 71R but I'm really trying to stress max powerband over max output so anything that helps spool/respool would be nice =)


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser said:


> I'm gonna be running a 2.0L 71R but I'm really trying to stress max powerband over max output so anything that helps spool/respool would be nice =)


I quickly tested a vvt active file this morning. It dropped my spool on my Frankenturbo F23 by 500 rpms. It went from 3250 for 22psi to 2700 rpms in the same gear and same stretch of road I always use to log. The thing around town drove like a damn k03s! Chris is trying to help me fix my timing issue though. Eratic in the midrange and uptop. we shall see what comes of this.


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Not all Audi's are the same. Returnless setups run 4BAR fuel pressure stock which will lead to different injector constant numbers.


True.. i should have mentioned i have a B6 which runs at 4bay and equates to 866CC injectors.. but at 3bar my injectors would be 750cc.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I quickly tested a vvt active file this morning. It dropped my spool on my Frankenturbo F23 by 500 rpms. It went from 3250 for 22psi to 2700 rpms in the same gear and same stretch of road I always use to log. The thing around town drove like a damn k03s! Chris is trying to help me fix my timing issue though. Eratic in the midrange and uptop. we shall see what comes of this.


How do you get the vvt enabled file? Cuz I see cam timing map in my current tune and it's set 18.(something).


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

codergfx said:


> How do you get the vvt enabled file? Cuz I see cam timing map in my current tune and it's set 18.(something).


Exactly. You have the file version with cam adjustments DISABLED and locked to 18˚. Contact C.Tapp. I've seen spartiati's logs; there's a real difference in spool to be had by simply enabling this hardware.


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## Mr.Miranda (Sep 19, 2008)

Mr.Miranda said:


> Hey guys anyone with a 75mm TB file for EV14 840cc Injectors and GT30R?
> 
> Im running 25% on block 032. Please help. Thanks





CASHBY III said:


> Have you tried to tune anything yet?
> 
> First thing is you need to dial in Injector constant, Batter voltage compensation and min injector pulsewidth.
> 
> ...





TooLFan46n2 said:


> Not all Audi's are the same. Returnless setups run 4BAR fuel pressure stock which will lead to different injector constant numbers.





CASHBY III said:


> True.. i should have mentioned i have a B6 which runs at 4bay and equates to 866CC injectors.. but at 3bar my injectors would be 750cc.




Thank you guys for your help. Im really a newbie with this maestro stuff. Arnold provided me with a base file and then a second updates file to help lower the fuel trims but no luck. Still at 25% :facepalm:

I really want to fix this issue


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

spartiati said:


> I quickly tested a vvt active file this morning. It dropped my spool on my Frankenturbo F23 by 500 rpms. It went from 3250 for 22psi to 2700 rpms in the same gear and same stretch of road I always use to log. The thing around town drove like a damn k03s! Chris is trying to help me fix my timing issue though. Eratic in the midrange and uptop. we shall see what comes of this.


Keep us informed on what chris mentions about the timing issues


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

Yea I would def like to see more about it. I wonder if that is going to be something that will mess everyone up even more by us playing with it or if it is going to be somewhat simple like things are now


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

awesome looks like I'll be getting a VVT stuff to convert my AEB head.

on a side note would anyone else like to see a maestro 7 subform? I think we would be able to organize information a bit better then in just one solitary thread, just a thought.


Does anyone know exactly how to set the fuel gauge consumption constant?

I was having a problem with the gauge being a bit "loose" as in when I would hit boost or go up hit it would go down fast then slowly return back to it's correct position, I noticed that the constant was the exact same as the cc of my fuel injectors but @ 3bar instead of 4 bar like my file is written for. So i changed it to the flowrate of my injectors @ 4 bar for the first 2 days the gauge would swing around even more but after it settled down it seems to have helped the problem and my gas gauge is more consistent and doesn't make wild swings anymore when going up steep hills or hitting boost for extended periods of time(like during a 3rd gear pull). Since I check my miles per tank every tank when my gauge says it's time to fill up I am(1/4 tank as always) and see how much I can put in and see if it's accurate.

IF you can, would people please list:

What type of file you have
what your gauge constant is
what your injectors flow @ 3 and 4 bar
and is your gauge constant the same as your injector size in cc @ 3 bar or not?

thank you =)


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Cryser said:


> awesome looks like I'll be getting a VVT stuff to convert my AEB head.
> 
> on a side note would anyone else like to see a maestro 7 subform? I think we would be able to organize information a bit better then in just one solitary thread, just a thought.
> 
> ...


ive always had a gauge problem it never read correctly... ive had swing on me a few times.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

codergfx said:


> ive always had a gauge problem it never read correctly... ive had swing on me a few times.


whats your gauge constant?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Alright guys. Get your marshmallows ready cause its heating up in here. No seriously. 

Here are two logs; One with vvt enables and the other without.

Here is VVT NOT enabled









Here is VVT ENABLED









Look at that spool!!! After looking at the logs it seems like a more realistic gain of 400 rpms of quicker spool. 

Not only the spool look at the boost that is being sustained on the top end longer. Now I am running a dual MBC setup. One was originally setup for 16psi and the other was set to 23psi. With the VVT file active the extra exhaust gas energy is spooling the turbo even higher. my low now get to 18-19psi and my high is touching 25-26psi.

Car around town is an absolute different beast all together. The thing reminds me of my k03s way back when. Much better acceleration off boost. 

This thing all looks and sounds great but theres gotta be a catch right? Well kind of. Look at the pic below:









Now that is 1795*F POST TURBINE!!!!!! That means pre turbine temps are in excess of 1900*F. That is meltdown territory. My hottest egt temps before the VVT was activated was around 1680*F. Still hot but more within spec. I will try and drop the pressure back down to 23psi and see if the 2-3 psi extra is causing it to run that much hotter. I would test today but NYC got about 4-6 inches of snow so no peddle to the metal logging anytime soon. Just wanted to show people how VVT can help. My car literally feels like a chipped stock turbo car around town and an animal on the highway. traction control (when I forget to turn it off) is fighting for traction in 3rd gear on the highway.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Over 20psi of boost before 3000rpm -- on a 350bhp car. I'm pretty happy to see this, no doubt about it. :thumbup:


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Over 20psi of boost before 3000rpm -- on a 350bhp car. I'm pretty happy to see this, no doubt about it. :thumbup:


Same!


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

codergfx said:


> Same!


not for nothing I would be seriously curious to see how much of an impact this has on torque in the low end and power overall. I already had a nice wide powerband. This I'm sure makes it kick in earlier. I smell dyno sometime in the near future.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

spartiati said:


> not for nothing I would be seriously curious to see how much of an impact this has on torque in the low end and power overall. I already had a nice wide powerband. This I'm sure makes it kick in earlier. I smell dyno sometime in the near future.


If only Chris would reply to my emails... But soon as he does I'll do some logs aswell, any other issues with the beta file?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

hmm so there 2.4.6 now and we now have a "smooth data" button, Seems to find the lowest common denomination between the value of the selected fields and slowly bring them to that value. The can be seen by selecting a broad field of values noting the lowest value and spamming(constantly pressing, for the non gamers =P ) the button you'll see all the values in the selected field slowly lower to that value and then stop at that value.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

So I had a weird instance today. 

Last night I was working on my opt torque and target filling tables, I noticed that there was a 4 rpm row in the table and I really wanted to add a 6500 rpm to the axis, so I did shifted everything up and added the 6500 line. Flashed the car this morning with the flash and when I started the car it was revving and even holding 5 PSI of boost before the the DV would yet it off. The car would almost die, then hold idle fine for 5 seconds before revving up again and repeating the cycle. 

Re flashed the old file, idled perfectly. Re did the new file without the axis change, idled perfectly. 

Now the next value down on the axis was 400 rpm follow by 800 rpm... the car never gets to 4 rpm nor 400 rpm I figured these were just place holders for the size of the map as I have change this do other axis before and never had a problem. 

The only thing I can think of is this axis is a shared axis and changing it with out changing it on the other tables caused the car not to know what to do. 

Anyway if anyone can explain why this happened would be great, if not just wanted to let people know of the issue and what caused it. It's not maestro it's the ecu in general, if it is a shared axis(I think it is) would be nice to have Eurodyne label these in the program.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

That's Def weird but not out of the ordinary. The other day on the phone chris mentioned that those maps have to match one another. If you make a change in one you have to also make changes in the other in the corresponding cells, or axis of the other. 

One thing to note about timing. Chris mentioned that the ecu will likely not give us the timing we would have set in our tables. It will typically be lower. If the car is requesting lets say 98% torque and it calculates its making 98% torque with timing advance less than the map requests, then that is all you will get. The car will run less timing to not overshoot the the requested torque. 

Hope this helps


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## CASHBY III (Nov 25, 2008)

what are you guys tuning on your opt tq and target filing maps? 

I have finally dialed in my AFR on idle, PT and WOT... now just have to figure out my timing pull issue which I think is related directly to target filling map but not sure.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> That's Def weird but not out of the ordinary. The other day on the phone chris mentioned that those maps have to match one another. If you make a change in one you have to also make changes in the other in the corresponding cells, or axis of the other.
> 
> One thing to note about timing. Chris mentioned that the ecu will likely not give us the timing we would have set in our tables. It will typically be lower. If the car is requesting lets say 98% torque and it calculates its making 98% torque with timing advance less than the map requests, then that is all you will get. The car will run less timing to not overshoot the the requested torque.
> 
> Hope this helps


 That makes a lot of sense. Because I have noticed the closer I get my opt torque in the last column to match up perfectly with my car's true torque curve both fueling and timing seem to get more dead on. I use to have a ton of variation in timing and fueling between runs now it's extremely consist and I'm getting what I am requested as far as timing, fuel is with in 1% -3% for the most par through a run, I've been bringing the Max VE more inline with what the car can really expect to ever see rather then having it way over the top and that seems to bring the car more in line with onset of fueling changes in response to a WOT event. ATM I try and keep the values at about 20-25 more load then what I'm seeing on a 3rd gear pull. This is to account for higher load in other gears, I noticed when I brought closer sometimes the car would pull back and hesitate because it overshot the max VE in a different gear. I think that has to do with the fact with lower the VE in effect pulls the Opt torque more in line since atm it's too high. But I'm trying to work at this changing only 1 variable at a time so I can note changes to a single change. 

CHASBY III to answer your question. 

I changed my entire target filling and opt torque tables. The reason I did this is I wanted the car to have more of an audi feel and I ran out of adjustment room that I was comfortable with in the accel pedal table. With the target filling and torque tables you can adjust in essence the "Character" of the car, is it aggressive, torque, more tuned for HP and high end flow etc. 
Effectively I changed the car from the peaky torque VW to a more redefined more focused on high end flow focused car, this matches my modifications better since I opened up the WG of my k03s a lot and I can hold boost a lot better in the higher end now as a result. 
I worked it from the target filling tables I adjusted those how I wanted the car to respond then I calculated the opt torque table cell by cell with a formula I devised... ended up work exceedingly well only need to low torque values slowly in the boosted areas since lambda is not 14.7 and the table is opt torque if lambda was 14.7. Now obviously you don't want 14.7 w/full load on the engine so you enrich the mixture, this enrichment of the mixture makes the car produce more torque so this value must go down since the car is basically asking what the torque should be disregarding torque gained through more fuel. 
The reason for this is emissions and UK standards related it was easier for Bosch to tune everything at 14.7 because that's best emissions and on stock tune a 1.8T is always striving for 14.7 even in boost until the EGT threshold is hit. 

As for the formula I'm working on getting it to a point where I can release it to people and know that they don't be endangering their cars. I can explain it to someone with the program up easily... doing it over the internet is a bit tougher, it's all pretty simple once you see it, I'm just horrible at explaining complex systems to people in general, brain thinks faster then I can talk or type =P 


if any of those giant blocks of text don't make sense please quote and ask me to explain better and I will =)


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I've had a few people ask for my tune or various bins. 

I'm going to grab a datalog tonight with the current tune I have on my car. Then I'm gonna throw that up on with the tune and post a link to the zip here. 

I'm gonna keep the link active for 2 weeks then take it down, I'm doing this for 2 reasons. 

1. Even though I run the tune on my car and I feel safe with it, I'm not sure how other peoples car will respond to it. 

2. My turbo's wastegate is ported quite a bit, so I really don't think the tune would run well on a stock k03s as I have had to change the attitude of the car quite a bit to compensate for that and keep it driving like I wanted it to and not just ramp up the hell out the acceleration pedal map to make the car "seem" really fast 

I would really love if some one with a k04 or frankenturbo would dyno the tune, but the injectors and TT maf would need to be dialed in and the VE and target filling and opt torque changed a tad to get the boost to the right place.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

http://www.mediafire.com/?v4qj2affgnj25zs 

There you go included is: 

My current Tune 
A datalog from tonight using that tune after flashing it (3rd gear pull is in the front I just left it run in case people wanted to see other situations) 
The Tune I will be flashing in the morning is included as well so you can see where I went from my current tune with the information.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser said:


> http://www.mediafire.com/?v4qj2affgnj25zs
> 
> There you go included is:
> 
> ...


 Log seems pretty spot on buddy! Intake air temps are surprisingly cool for k03s. water meth? 

I think I've made some progress on my timing on high boost. Still there under lower boost full throttle situations. I'll release what I've changed after I figure out all the kinks.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Cryser said:


> whats your gauge constant?


 627..... Something


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Cryser said:


> That makes a lot of sense. Because I have noticed the closer I get my opt torque in the last column to match up perfectly with my car's true torque curve both fueling and timing seem to get more dead on. I use to have a ton of variation in timing and fueling between runs now it's extremely consist and I'm getting what I am requested as far as timing, fuel is with in 1% -3% for the most par through a run, I've been bringing the Max VE more inline with what the car can really expect to ever see rather then having it way over the top and that seems to bring the car more in line with onset of fueling changes in response to a WOT event. ATM I try and keep the values at about 20-25 more load then what I'm seeing on a 3rd gear pull. This is to account for higher load in other gears, I noticed when I brought closer sometimes the car would pull back and hesitate because it overshot the max VE in a different gear. I think that has to do with the fact with lower the VE in effect pulls the Opt torque more in line since atm it's too high. But I'm trying to work at this changing only 1 variable at a time so I can note changes to a single change.
> 
> CHASBY III to answer your question.
> 
> ...


 Glad to hear its working well. I to had started on the torque equation awhile back and gave up after trying to calculate boosted loads. Look forward to checking out what you have come up with. 
:beer:


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

yeah to be honest Like a tune before this one is where the fueling really start to fall in line. There is that little dead spot right after the car hits WOT that the torque needed to be raise as it was holding back the boost at that point. That's what happens if you go too low on your opt torque the car holds back in a very distinct manner. It's like you hit an electronic limiter, if you wanna feel it just drop your opt torque 10% last column and do a run, you'll know what i'm talking about. It's holding back but not hesitating at all it's wierd. 

I have a snow stage II dual nozzle kit from USRT in my room waiting for install but atm there is no secondary injection that's just from my front mount. Kinetic FMIC from CTS, the only thing is I have my front bumper cut out to allow more flow through it but other then that it's a standard kinetic kit. the run was done at around midnight and I'm very close to the coast so those temps are around my norm for that time, usually go from 20-18-21 

Just filled the tank so I'll be able to get back to you guys shortly about the gauge constant change and see if that helps out the swinging issue I was having. 

Yeah I've had to keep my timing fairly low because of the crappy 91 oct in california, so that water meth will really help when I can find time to get it in there and up and running. I'm gonna see how a richer mixture through out the powerband effects things, might be able to draw a bit more timing out that way, we'll see


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## Mr.Miranda (Sep 19, 2008)

Mr.Miranda said:


> Hey guys anyone with a 75mm TB file for EV14 840cc Injectors and GT30R?
> 
> Im running 25% on block 032. Please help. Thanks


 
Anyone?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Mr.Miranda said:


> Anyone?


 Email me your file and logs to go along with it. Ill try and help you out. [email protected] Com


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Keep us posted cryser. I finally got my timing sorted out. I never had this much timing consistantly. I am able to run 20* from 5000 on and am hitting 24.75* advance at 6500. Zero corrections throughout the entire powerand.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Keep us posted cryser. I finally got my timing sorted out. I never had this much timing consistantly. I am able to run 20* from 5000 on and am hitting 24.75* advance at 6500. Zero corrections throughout the entire powerand.


 Your running a dual nozzle W/M on a F23 right?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser said:


> Your running a dual nozzle W/M on a F23 right?


 Triple nozzel. 2 very small 100cc boxes and one 225. The 100's are one right after the Turbo but before the inter cooler and the other is right after the throttle body. The 225 is just after the inter cooler. No pooling in the inter cooler. I've done a full throttle run and pulled right off the "private road" I was on. Bumper was off so I just took the lower pipe off and nothing was there.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I'm having a strange issue under boost between 5-6k- major hesitations. Before 5k the car drives perfectly and after 6k it pulls hard and smooth. In the log files you can literally see the car jumping back in RPMS, the actual AFR reading looks perfect at this time though and the pedal is down to the floor.

In order not to pollute the thread with large images below is a link to an image of one log and an Excel sheet of another. If anyone has any advice I'd appreciate it!

My setup:
ID1000's, MAFless tune, walbro 255 pump
AEB head, full ferrera valvetrain, RMR manifold
Pistons/rods obviously
FFE tubular manifold, Precision 5857-DBB

Excel File

Image of second gear pull, highlights of RPM jump

Engine bay shot


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

DougLoBue said:


> I'm having a strange issue under boost between 5-6k- major hesitations. Before 5k the car drives perfectly and after 6k it pulls hard and smooth. In the log files you can literally see the car jumping back in RPMS, the actual AFR reading looks perfect at this time though and the pedal is down to the floor.
> 
> In order not to pollute the thread with large images below is a link to an image of one log and an Excel sheet of another. If anyone has any advice I'd appreciate it!
> 
> ...


 You may want to employ the map tracer feature while diagnosing things w/ maestro to pinpoint things. There's nothing glaring in your logs as far as the tune. But I do notice the steep climb in your IAT's which may indicate an obstruction where you may be experiencing some compressor surge. Have you taken any higher gear logs?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> You may want to employ the map tracer feature while diagnosing things w/ maestro to pinpoint things. There's nothing glaring in your logs as far as the tune. But I do notice the steep climb in your IAT's which may indicate an obstruction where you may be experiencing some compressor surge. Have you taken any higher gear logs?


 Thanks Al, any tables I should watch specifically? 

I've ran the map tracer a few times and applied the histogram corrections to the main fuel corrections map only.

I've also done 3rd & 4th gear pulls with the same outcome.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

enable your misfire counter and monitor that.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> enable your misfire counter and monitor that.


 It's enabled. No misfires through both Eurodyne and Vagcom.

I'm running brand new 2.0T FSI coils, new coilpack harness and new NGK Irridium racing temp 7 plugs gapped to .024


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Lets see some 3rd gear logs of when this happens. Btw, what is your method of boost control?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Have you already adjusted the optimal coil dwell maps or are you using the same calibrations from the 1.8t coils?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I haven't changed the coil dwel maps. The only map that was modified was the full load lambda map. I still have bolt down hitachi's and IIRC I was having the same issue with these.

I will get a 3rd gear log tonight. I'm using a Boost Valve ball/spring boost controller- worked perfectly for my old Uni file.

Just spoke to Chirs @ Eurodyne and he said my issues are likely due to my larger RMR manifold since he tunes on a stock small port manifold.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

your problem actually is starting at 4500rpm if you go over the log closely... your just feeling it at 5k. 

Your AFR is all over the place past 4500 I mean it's swinging around 11-13 in the actually. I'm guessing something is not right about your opt torque maps from 4500 onward


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

DougLoBue said:


> I haven't changed the coil dwel maps. The only map that was modified was the full load lambda map. I still have bolt down hitachi's and IIRC I was having the same issue with these.
> 
> I will get a 3rd gear log tonight. I'm using a Boost Valve ball/spring boost controller- worked perfectly for my old Uni file.
> 
> Just spoke to Chirs @ Eurodyne and he said my issues are likely due to my larger RMR manifold since he tunes on a stock small port manifold.


 Stock throttle body??? I'm guessing your issue would be in the Injector correction map if its the manifold thats the issue.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

update your maestro guys. Chris's release now logs one new thing. Actual torque calculated by the cars ecu. Should help tune the optimum torque map.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

spartiati said:


> update your maestro guys. Chris's release now logs one new thing. Actual torque calculated by the cars ecu. Should help tune the optimum torque map.


 yesssss:thumbup:


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

OMG THANK YOU CHRIS!!!! 

I was just gonna send an email and ask for this to be added to the datalog... damn this will make street tuning SO much easier!


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

and it doesn't work =( sadly I see it and it's getting recorded it just records a 0 though for a whole run =( 

At least this is a sign he working on it, this is huge and will reduce the time it takes to do tunes on the street quiet a bit. Also once it gets working and people start to dial in the opt torque map, peoples tunes will become more and more dialed in and you'll start seeing more steady AFR and fuel trims close to zeroing out on a WOT run. 

In fact once your ecu starts to target less then 14.7 you can actually adjust opt torque by your fuel trims... just discovered that tonight after about 2 hours of runs =), I see why most people suggest using KFLF(main fuel correction) as an absolute last resort for tuning the fuel mixture, you can adjust out fuel trims a multitude of ways that are much better for other calculations then using that map! 

The more you know, the more you realize you don't know :banghead:


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

For the people that messaged me concerned that my engine was going to blow up because the map labeled "full load lambda" in the tune I released is filled with 14.7 and the EGT is set to 600*C. 

I thank you for your concern, but as the datalog included shows, my car is far from exploding into a fiery wreak at the end of my "private road" that I use for tuning =) 

Chris Tapp has chosen his own labels that fall more in line with his tuning style for the various maps we are allow to access through the maestro program. 

I am currently exploring other methods that control the lambda curve of the car. 

IF you read a few pages back in this thread, you'll begin to understand the method I'm using. 

Sorry I didn't wanna type that like 7 times


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

One thing about having augmentable tunes in your car... Dont get carried away with it. Its not always the tune. Maestro can be a diagnostic tool to pinpoint hardware problems as well. I've yet to experience cars breaking up as its going leanish on default torque maps and boost fluctuations. At times, its the chicken or the egg syndrome and you'll be chasing your tail looking for something that isnt there. Use some common sense and it will simplify the whole process and work work from the oustide in...


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Interpolation: Construction of new data points between known data points with in system. 

EDIT(Clarification): The picture below is assuming there are axis points at 

X axis: 2000 , 2500 
Y axis: 0 , 10 

The average(center) values are show as a guide to show how "strong" the ecu fade is controlled by the inputed data point on the axis, consider it a equally dividing gradient. 

This is how interpolation on the ME 7 system works: 










Now, there is a natural fade the ecu places on the transition between 0-5 and 5-10 of the Y axis and 2000 - 2250 and 2250 - 2500 of the X axis of this picture. 

As far as I know we can NOT control the rate of this fade in any way. To be honest it doesn't matter because if you match the 2 points the fade will make a nice flat line. 

if you would like a general idea of how to incorporate this theory with the included histogram of maestro think of the highlighted value as the A cell in the picture above.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

If you look at his raw excel file, you'll see at around 5k rpm's, his boost starting to oscillate a bit. His AFR's are still holding strong at requested and it only starts to exhibit the lean condition after 6k which can be attributed to tune or hardware which is different then what he exhibited in the highlighted screen shot 

It would also be a hot mess having infinite resolutions on these tables as the other corresponding tables would invariably need the same.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

This is something I wrote down and theorized a few days ago while it was raining and I couldn't get data logs. It's helped me dial in my tunes better by helping put me in the "mind of the computer" so to speak, figured I'd post it up see if it helps anyone else. 

*How ME7 takes your pedal input and uses it through the torque control set of maps* 

The creation and back checking of the (_Driver's wish_) variable​ 
You, the driver, press the accelerator pedal in accordance to your wish. 

This variable will be known as _Pedal %_ and it is the X axis of the *Accelerator pedal map.* 

_Pedal %_ is then matched up with _RPM _on the *Accelerator pedal map* 

the value in this cell becomes the variable _Driver's wish_ 

_Driver's wish_ is then exported to the Y axis of the *Target filling map* 

* _Driver's wish_ is ALSO exported to the Y axis of *Power enrichment!* I will not be exploring _Driver's wish_ effect on fueling maps as it is outside the scope of this post* 

_Driver's wish_ is then matched up again with _RPM_ on the *Target filling map* 

the value in this cell is the "raw target load" we will call it _Raw load_ 

*_Raw load_ is a value we do NOT see, it is NOT engine spec load (that is merely the value you can set for the max VE on the boost tables and is there to limit overboost situations) * 

_Actual Load_ is measured by the MAF, or calculated by ecu in the case of MAFless or malfunctioning MAF and exported to the Y axis of *Optimal torque map* 

_Actual Load_ is then matched up with _RPM_ on the *Optimal torque map* 

This variable is _Optimal torque_ 

_Optimal torque_ should, if the mixture is at 14.7 or 1 lambda, match up correctly with the percentage of torque that is required to keep the car moving in accordance with the target filling map. Once we can see the actual torque put out by the engine in the data this will be easier to see. if it doesn't the car will begin to make fuel and timing changes to try and get that in line. 


so as you can see if you change the target filling maps you can get the new optimal torque values by doing some math on the values of the target filling table. 

After going through all this I am really beginning to see how tuning a MAFless car would be MUCH easier following Maestro 7 style of tuning with the full load lambda map etc, as oppose to my file using solely the power enrichment. 

This theory also explains why when people unplug a bad MAF the car runs a lot better when the car is on a stock tune. Unplugging the MAF triggers the alpha-N tables and airflow over tb, etc etc. 

Since these tables are pretty well dialed in from the factory for the factory tune they are much better values to use then a low reading MAF, so the car runs better because torque control isn't limiting power because it's seeing low MAF readings meaning _Driver's wish _and _Optimal Torque_ aren't matching up


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Arnold was correct with his hardware suggestion... a code came up for the crankshaft position sensor. I pulled it, cleaned it and reinstalled. Took a 2nd, 3rd & partial 4th gear pull the car runs GREAT. Thanks for your input guys! 

Under throttle my AFR's are conservative at 11-12. Partial throttle needs some work since it's running in the 12's. What map adjusts partial throttle? 

Here's an excel sheet with a pull in it from tonight. The intake temp doesn't ramp up as quickly in this and the boost builds up to 19 and stays there which is what the controller is set to. 

Excel - second gear pull highlighted in green


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

You most likely need to adjust your EGT thershold seems like your getting in the Full load lambda map just a tad too early, what does your power enrichment table's Y axis have for values?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

My EGT threshold is: 522.473781

and my power enrichment map looks untouched by me. Is this the part throttle AFR control map?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Nice info Cryser; thanks for sharing!


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

DougLo 

Power enrichment is lambda control before EGT threshold is reached, yours is currently deactivated by the axis and not being used to control anything in your tune. 


I wanted to post this here as I'm sure some people will be as excited if not more about this then me. 

I just created,tested and affirmed a completely made from scratch Target filling and opt torque map. The map feel in line well enough that I would consider this to be a great place to start to tune from, aka a base map for these to maps in which you can adjust the optimal torque map (by 02 corrections) to get your tune to fall into line. 

I'm gonna format it up, include some bins and datalogs and walk through the first 2 reflashs to attempt to explain the theory. It's all fairly easy to fairly mathematical in the set up, after that it gets more into adjusting by what the numbers are saying and a bit on feel to get everything dialed in. 

expect it tomorrow late night as I'll be starting it tomorrow after class. 

But I will say The optimal torque map attempts to correct variances in current measured load and what the ECU says the load should be at based on the optimal torque map by the 02 correction. 

*Negative values* show that the optimal torque is_ too high_ and needs to be lowered 

*Positive values* show that the optimal torque is _too low_ and needs to be raised. 

values of 0 shows the ecu ran out of adjustment room and I believe the car stops adjusting fuel and just goes into an all out effect to return to target until the ecu gets back into adjustment range again and continues to adjust.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

interesting. Cryser what would you say in my situation now. I have changed my throttle body so o2 corrections would initially be all over the place. I've tuned and adjusted the alpha n and corresponding TB angle vs airflow map for the hardware change. 

Where would you say the corrections are coming from say a throttle body vs just the torque map at this point. I've pretty much adjusted the car to be +- 3-5% corrections throughout the entire map. I wouldn't say my timing is an issue because I am running good amounts of timing, howeverthe car is running basically off the minimum timing map. Race map is requesting 28-30* towards red line while my minimum is more like 24-25. The car always targets minimum timing map on full throttle.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Since your Mafless the first thing you would have to do Spartiati would be to make sure the alpha N and TB airflow angles are correct and more importantly producing load values that would fall in line with what a MAF would be providing the ECU. 

I'll be quite honest the post I logged on to make will most likely answer a lot of your questions, it really all just came to me in a blaze of insomniactic glory. 

+/- 3-5% is still vary far off in actuality hope the next post will explain why. It's gonna take a bit to type it all out though =)


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Insomniatic glory lol. That made me laugh. Idle is where I get those values for the most part. Cruising and full throttle are even closer. I just gave those figures as a general spread of what I see. 

Ill wait and see what you post next.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Excellent info in here. :thumbup: 

Doug, weird how there were no misfiring issues with your cps compromised like that. But, on another note, are you experiencing any oil pressure issues? With the amount circulating in your oil, it may be in your best interest to temporarily install an oil pressure gauge in place of your sending unit. If there is blockage or particle damage, you will experience at least the oil pressure dummy light going off periodically. Is this a new engine? 

You may want to address that before you do any real tuning. Not to worry you, just a precautionary thing


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

*Purpose of the Optimal Torque Map* 

_What it does, how it does it, why it does it, and how to make it work for you!_ ​ 

_Purpose:_ Take the calculated torque value at a given *RPM* & *load*, then compare it to the value that is present on the map. The ECU then corrects for the difference by adjusting the *02 correction* value, the requested boost value, and the timing value. 

*02 correction value:* This value is the change in lambda that the ECU requires to reach it's current TARGET lambda, If an 02 correction value of 0 is recorded that means 1 of 2 things has occurred. 

1. Your datalogging and reading values from the engine just turning on, the engine requires some time to begin correcting through the 02 correction value, lambda sensors must heat up etc,etc. 

2. The correction the ECU needs is SO great it has gone off the 25% range the 02 correction has to offer. A significant change in the value in this area is going to be required.​ 
This map is in place to check the MAF sensor's readings to the ECU. The Mutiplitive and Additive fuel trims are derived from the 02 correction values, The ECU then uses these fuel trims, along with timng and requested boost to effect the Actual Torque of the car so that the driver does not feel the effects of air tempurature, increased load driving(going up hill) and such on the power production of the engine. 

You have to understand, bosch doesn't trust the millions of people who bought cars with their ME7 ecu system in it to understand the adverse effects real life variables have on the torque production of a turbocharged engine. What they DO understand is that if the average person presses the pedal down 50% of the way, they want the car to "FEEL" like it is producing 50% of it's power wether your driving up to the mountians or passing some one on the freeway in florida. 

*in the average drivers mind 50% pedal means 50% power* 

Most of this simulation is processed and converted by the ECU on the Acceleration pedal map and the target filling map. 

In order for the ECU to know whether or not the it needs to make the engine produce more or less torque in order to comply with drivers demand of current Load(value measured by MAF or calculated if running mafless), it needs a value to check against. This is the value you are adjusting on the optimal torque map. 

Now since the optimal torque map effects many variables off a single value, it is safe to assume that you can adjust for 02 correction and know that the effect of requested boost and timing from the optimal torque map will also be in line and if you have problems in these areas after getting fueling set you need to begin to adjust other maps to affect those values. 

_Types of Fuel Trims and how they work_​ 
The ECU has 2 Fuel Trims: Additive and Multiplicative both are applied globally to the fueling but they differ in HOW they are applied 

*Additive:* A static value applied to the trim UNAFFECTED by changes in load. 

*Multiplicative:* A value applied to the trim that is AFFECTED by changes in load. 

The additive trim is used to make corrects that are happening at the same rate irregardless of load or at lower load levels like idle and cruising 

the Multiplicative trim is used to make corrections that happen at an increasing rate as load is increased and in the higher load ranges. 

What all this means is that when your tuning your 02 correction values you want them to be ether ALL positive or ALL negative. 

If your 02 values swing between +/- your optimal torque maps need some work. 

THe Ecu can only make a trim if a problem is reoccuring. 

If your 02 correction value at the same load at 
2000rpm is -5 
2500rpm 3 
3000rpm -4 
3500rpm 2 

while is might not seem to bad in reality this is not only improperly tuned, your actually causing the ECU to fight against your tune when it creates it's fuel trims! 

This is what the ecu is thinking 

2000rpm take away fuel 
**** 2500 quick add fuel 
wtf 3000rpm take away fuel 
seriously... 3500 add fuel 

this type of adjustment does not fall in line with the 2 available adjustments the ecu can make with the fuel trims. 

Obviously we want to get our fuel trims as close to 0 as possible. But it must be done in the correct way or else your going to assume your tune is spot on when in reality it's just that the ecu can't make an adjustment because your optimal torque map is so off! 


*How to make this all work for your Tune* 
_Adjusting the Optimal Torque map using 02 corrections as a guide_ 

*You MUST deactivate any corrections on your main fuel correction map, this is the pre correction map for the lambda targeting fuel algorithm and will skew results if any value but 1.0001 is present in the cell.* 

**Note* the values of this table compare to ACTUAL torque seen by the torque model, NOT the REQUESTED torque derived by the acceleration pedal map, I will explain the different in a different post.*​ 
**NOTE for setting up Y axis, The final column value should be the LOAD value where you car produces Maximum torque, this just happen to be the max load that my car reached... with my turbo (ported ko3s) this over shot my target filling value by 5% so while the highest value I request for load is only 200% my Y axis, last column on optimal torque is 205.5 since that is the max load my car will reach that I have seen, if it is completely unrestricted by the max VE table. This number has risen as my tune can getting more spot on, I can only assume this means I am producing more power, butt dyno agrees heavily​* 
*Do NOT fall into the trap off thinking you much adjust lower range values if you change the value of higher columns, you shouldn't have to unless you are raising the last column because of a pure 0 reading when approaching max torque, a very rare instance indeed, other wise you should not need to adjust values in lower load area's as produced torque should be the same at other load levels. *​ 
First you want to make sure there are NO recorded 0's in your datalog in the area we are going to be adjusting. 

Any 0's must first be dealt with or your gonna be chasing your tail, A pure 0 is an indication of the adjustment running out of range... A BIG change will be required to bring this load and rpm point into line so that we may begin fine tuning. Use common sense with these adjustments, if your adjusting 151% load out of a max defined 200% and your opt torque value is 30%... you probably need to raise not lower to get it back scale. 

*note values of 0.23 etc are perfect and infact mean your basically spot on at that point* 

*NOTE* Other maps affect fuel trims so make sure you account for acceleration fueling map and it's effect on the fuel trim during sudden throttle requests. It is better to only tune portions of the opt torque map in which a steady load over a good portion of the rpm range is logged. 

Now once you have no pure zero's the next step is to make sure your 02 corrections are either ALL positive or ALL negative. I shoot for negative because I rather be richer and have the ecu remove a small amount of fuel then rely on the ecu to add fuel, that's just me how I feel safer, also that's how I know I'm not "missing" out on power so to speak. 

a Datalog that shows you have all the 02 correction values either positive or negative you have a choice: 

Be done!, yup you could fine right here, if your getting recorded values of all negative or positive numbers your in line "enough" that the ecu can take care of the rest and you'll have a pretty decent tune. 

Not be a slacker and really dial that **** in! 

Okay I made a post about interpolation of points between mapped points and how the ecu comes up with these. An understand of this concept will greatly reduce your dial in time if you don't have access to an interia dyno where you can run the car at a set load through an rpm range constantly. 

What your going to do is look at RPM points in the data log that you have defined on your X axis. Then check the calculated load at that point. 

*For MAFLESS people:* *NOTE* I have not even turned the key on a mafless car let alone start to tune one this is a guess BUT I'm thinking this check would be how you would dial in your TB tables and such... You would want to make sure the calculated load matched what your spec load would be that way you know you are on the right spot on the optimal torque table. But that's tuning theory and I can't get into that atm(no time and outside of the scope of this already long and probably confusing post) 

then you check the 02 correction, if it's negative your gonna to decrease the value of your optimal torque table in that cell. 

Now the reason you are looking for defined RPM area's is because if you have all those in line the values in between those areas will fall in line too. 

I gotta end the post here and get to class, but that's really all the basics, if you understand interpolation you can use the changing of 02 correction values to estimate what changes need to be done to cells of the map you might not have logged, 

if you don't just stick to the defined values and only adjust based on calculated load, if calculated load falls between 2 defined values, average the defined values, if the calculated value is higher then average adjust the higher defined load cell, or vise versa. 

Remember small adjustments are best, even with recorded zero's I would only make 5% adjustments at most 

One last thing if you have Positive numbers where you have it marked as 100% opt torque(last column is the only place this is gonna happen) you need to RAISE the Y axis value of the last column! The car is telling you if produced max torque at a higher load level then the defined axis you either 

need to bring the axis up and readjust the other values in the column accordingly, (you want to tune for more power) 

just allow for the ecu to make that correction in that case (a positive value less then 2 in this case is probably just from the car not completely cooling down between runs and heat effecting power output) 

Limit the max VE to avoid hitting that load level again ( you want to limit power produce or boost for reliability reasons etc. 

damn that's longer then I expected, I'll check it over for spelling and clarity after I get back from class, post any areas of concern or questions I can help with and I will try and add the info in


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Excellent info in here. :thumbup:
> 
> Doug, weird how there were no misfiring issues with your cps compromised like that. But, on another note, are you experiencing any oil pressure issues? With the amount circulating in your oil, it may be in your best interest to temporarily install an oil pressure gauge in place of your sending unit. If there is blockage or particle damage, you will experience at least the oil pressure dummy light going off periodically. Is this a new engine?
> 
> You may want to address that before you do any real tuning. Not to worry you, just a precautionary thing


 Yep it's a new motor and probably has 100 miles on it or so now. I went through a couple hour break in procedure with non-synthetic oil, changed it twice in that time span and now am running synthetic. I have an oil pressure gauge and have not seen any overly high values. I do notice it sits low at idle (around 20), where my last motor sat around 30. Under full load it shoots up to around 110 psi IIRC.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

75mm TB file anyone?


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## rstrf16 (Nov 15, 2006)

Someone has a 630/SEm/R32 TB tune I can start with? Thanks in advanced


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Any of you guys looking at your block 32 long term fuel trims? I didn't have my VVT delete connected so they were not adapting. Now they have at 21% and o2 correction is minimal on maestro. 

Is this overlooked and were still letting the car adapt a lot?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

if your main fuel correction table isn't filled with 1.001 then your fuel trims are not going to be accurate


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Cryser said:


> if your main fuel correction table isn't filled with 1.001 then your fuel trims are not going to be accurate


Yep it's full of 1.0001

I'm running ID1000's which apparently only flow at 900cc. I changed my injector constant for 900cc and my o2 corrections are lower already and with a 10 min drive the Long term fuel trims are around 5%.

I'm working on getting a MAF in the car to follow your tuning by torque method.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Curious question. When do you use the main fuel and when do you use the injector correction? Just for personal reference?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

"No Torque model influence on timing over 100% load"

Anyone play with this setting? This looks promising!


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> "No Torque model influence on timing over 100% load"
> 
> Anyone play with this setting? This looks promising!


Activate it. That's how I'm running the timing I am. Thanks to that feature.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

x2

You'll find the engine will follow your timing maps more closely and with less variability.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I don't have access to the torque model timing thing yet and it seems like he pulled the tools menu that enabled access to the map generation feature =( shame I was gonna play with that tonight too and see if I could unlock somethings myself =(


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Curious question. When do you use the main fuel and when do you use the injector correction? Just for personal reference?



From what I've read and been told, main fuel should be the last thing you use to adjust for fueling, most of the people I've talked to never use it or have only used it as a very last resort after everything else failed. From what I can tell with it, it's like giving the ecu a fuel trim before the real 02 correction is calculated, it doesn't change the target lambda the the ecu is targeting but it's giving it a pre correction to work from rather then starting from 0. 

injection correction - I'm not really sure what that is correcting for, my only though could be that it's correcting for the amount of fuel that the injector "Should" be injecting versus the amount of fuel it is "actually" injecting because of the pressure of the intake manifold. You would want the injectors to stay open longer as the vacuum in the manifold decreased and the pressure began to rise as it would be harder and harder for the fuel to be injected as the pressure that the fuel rail is injecting fuel at is approached.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Cryser said:


> DougLo
> 
> Power enrichment is lambda control before EGT threshold is reached, yours is currently deactivated by the axis and not being used to control anything in your tune.


Could someone post a photo of their working PE map?

Thanks!


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

spartiati said:


> Activate it. That's how I'm running the timing I am. Thanks to that feature.





[email protected] said:


> x2
> 
> You'll find the engine will follow your timing maps more closely and with less variability.





Cryser said:


> I don't have access to the torque model timing thing yet and it seems like he pulled the tools menu that enabled access to the map generation feature =( shame I was gonna play with that tonight too and see if I could unlock somethings myself =(


same, it's not present or i cannot locate it. I looked through everything


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> same, it's not present or i cannot locate it. I looked through everything


Chris has to code and activate that for the different files. Each base file is different so it'll take some time for him to get to everyone.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

spartiati said:


> Chris has to code and activate that for the different files. Each base file is different so it'll take some time for him to get to everyone.


makes sense, do we know which ones have it already?


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## rstrf16 (Nov 15, 2006)

Still looking for a 630 cc tune with r32TB Sem and ported head.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

*Tuning a compound setup*

I am in the processes of building a compound turbo set up on my 01 audi tt225. I was going to go standalone for the complicated tuning that is going into this setup but I really like the idea of keeping the stock ecu. Would it be possible to tune this kind of setup with Maestro?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Dowski12 said:


> I am in the processes of building a compound turbo set up on my 01 audi tt225. I was going to go standalone for the complicated tuning that is going into this setup but I really like the idea of keeping the stock ecu. Would it be possible to tune this kind of setup with Maestro?


I don't see why not. It'll take some hw and alot of trial and error but you should be able to pull it off.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Has anyone attempted it before with Maestro? If someone has and can chime in that would be great.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> Has anyone attempted it before with Maestro? If someone has and can chime in that would be great.


bigger turbo......multiple turbo.....triple turbo.....maestro can tune it no matter what.....your just gonna have to study hard and do your homework on learnign how to use it properly and im sure ull end up fine.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> bigger turbo......multiple turbo.....triple turbo.....maestro can tune it no matter what.....your just gonna have to study hard and do your homework on learnign how to use it properly and im sure ull end up fine.


exactly the car doesn't care how many or what size turbo(s) is providing the boost, hell you would tune maestro 7 for an N/A motor if you really wanted to but there is much better systems for that =)


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Maestro 3.0 :thumbup:

lot better map descriptions.

ability to look at all base maps... VVT switching maps included!

the VVT switching maps have more editable maps, I don't have VVT on my AWD car but if I can be sure of a way to deactivate the switching in that map I'll swap everything over from the stock stage 2 file and post it up so AWD people can have the new maps as well as leave the shift in for the awp people who want it in a stage 2 tune


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

looks like the flasher got update too.

There is an option to license a new car through the flasher, I wonder if we are going to be able to flash other peoples cars by buying credits from eurodyne.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Cryser said:


> looks like the flasher got update too.
> 
> There is an option to license a new car through the flasher, I wonder if we are going to be able to flash other peoples cars by buying credits from eurodyne.


I wonder if thats if you sell your software to someone else???


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

So pulling the boost control valve out of the equation completely messes everything up. I.E. external boost controller/etc eff's up the control logic?


:banghead:


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Cryser said:


> I wonder if we are going to be able to flash other peoples cars by buying credits from eurodyne.


why would they do that and loose out on all that revenue?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Rac_337 said:


> why would they do that and loose out on all that revenue?


You would be paying Eurodyne the credits to flash. So they would be making something since your buying credits. With that said I doubt that this is what that is there for ...


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

new version of maestro crashes on startup for me


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

spartiati said:


> You would be paying Eurodyne the credits to flash. So they would be making something since your buying credits. With that said I doubt that this is what that is there for ...


this is how my EFI-LIVE setup works, you buy the tool then pay for a license for each ECU you want to be able to reflash/tune. it works great. i wish eurodyne had this kind of deal going. i own more than one vw/audi so being able to use meastro-7 on each of them without spending 700+ on each one would be a great benefit for me.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

carsluTT said:


> this is how my EFI-LIVE setup works, you buy the tool then pay for a license for each ECU you want to be able to reflash/tune. it works great. i wish eurodyne had this kind of deal going. i own more than one vw/audi so being able to use meastro-7 on each of them without spending 700+ on each one would be a great benefit for me.


I agree and my friends cars that I tuned on e85 in my area don't know or care on how to use maestro I tune em they drive em. Would make it much easier if we had that ability I know for sure I got Chris at least 4 customers lol


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

dubbin_boho said:


> new version of maestro crashes on startup for me


I get an error message in the wizard for the first file I ignore it and it completes the installation and the flasher opens up as V3.9...:screwy:


Anyone have experience with the IMMOdefeat? There is supposed to Be a checkbox that is stimply not there ... (V.3.9)


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

it's there I think it's in the quick tune or the settings where you toggle launch control.


Anyone else notice that the new files in v3.0 save as mstro files no tapp files?

also since I have saved a file I can no longer open the base maps I just get an error message... :banghead:


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

I hate to sound dumb, but do I access quicktune via Maestro or the flash software?

sorry for my ignorance in advance


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

rodgertherabit said:


> I get an error message in the wizard for the first file I ignore it and it completes the installation and the flasher opens up as V3.9...:screwy:
> 
> 
> Anyone have experience with the IMMOdefeat? There is supposed to Be a checkbox that is stimply not there ... (V.3.9)


eurodyne charges an extra fee for immo defeat and they supply you with a new key code. i can see the immo defeat checkbox in quicksettings so i guess its odd that u cant


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

rodgertherabit said:


> I hate to sound dumb, but do I access quicktune via Maestro or the flash software?
> 
> sorry for my ignorance in advance


Go into flasher and then go to the top menu and click read settings. I believe its there.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> eurodyne charges an extra fee for immo defeat and they supply you with a new key code. i can see the immo defeat checkbox in quicksettings so i guess its odd that u cant


My friends car wouldn't start after flash so I just emailed Chris and he defeated immo


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Cryser said:


> it's there I think it's in the quick tune or the settings where you toggle launch control.
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice that the new files in v3.0 save as mstro files no tapp files?
> ...


So we can no longer edit old files?


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks guys, I didnt know about hte "Read Settings" drop down...

Once my laptop has enough charge im gonna go try again, hopefully everything will work


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

You can buy additional maestro licenses for 499.


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Alright, thanks for the help Guys!

Got the Spare ECU Defeated, installed my 4 bar, and flashed a stage 2 file. Man is it great having more than 9psi again!  I ran a brief log and all seems well, some strong advance at parts (~20), but the boost only settles around 15-16psi after a spike of around 20...maybe a surge here or there, not sure...

This seems kind of low to me.. any insight? Can QuickTune or Boost manager help me smooth it out and/or raise it a little?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

codergfx said:


> So we can no longer edit old files?


I can edit old .TAPP files but when I save now all my tunes save as .MSTRO files now. both flash fine and I can't tell any difference in running between a .TAPP and a .MSTRO file

but when I go to the select base tune option I get an error about an invalid 64 bit string if I click continue only the BEA base file shows up on the list and I can't even select that. Also after this error maestro becomes unstable and needs to be restarted to save files.

But If I just load one of my tunes (.tapp or .mstro) everything fine.

I really wish a list of changes would come up on why we are updating so much. To be quite honest the only things I have noticed software change wise have been taken out instantly form my base map so that last few upgrade to maestro I haven't been able to tell what they have been upgrading as nothing available to me has changed in the least bit.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

yeah a change log between versions would be nice


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Speaking of files, Can Tapp/Maestro Files Overwite previous flashes/chips? 

I have reason to believe (the source of the ecu) that it had an APR flash/chip on it...

I got Maestro to Defeat the IMMO and flash the Stage2 software without issue but it only holds boost around 16-17psi around 4500-5000rpm. I figured it would hold at least 18...

Please correct me if Im wrong...


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

You can overwrite other flashes, but not chips..

That said; your file is on the money as you describe it. You can go into the "easy tune" thingy, and tweak it for more psi. 

When I had it I made more tweaks in maestro, and had a nasty little file from that 4 bar stage2 base map.:thumbup:


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Thats what I figured. I guess THe best bet is to run some logs and see if its holding fuel back. 


If it is, it must be an apr tune, right? since is coded for a 3 bar and Ive got the Recommended 4 bar in?? 

What should I Blocks to check the fueling? Forgive me, literally my 1st day with this stuff


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Jeez, I totally forget. Its been over a year since I got rid of that car, and sold maestro. Read back through the thread a few pages.


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

AMU 225tt narrowband looking to get this, is it absolutely nessacary to go wideband ecu before getting this? And if i choose to stay narrowband what am i missing out on? I know my afr wont be as precise but what does that tangibly translate to(I cant go mafless)?

I did a few searches but didnt find too much about amu on eurodyne.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Hmm had the auto update try to install eurodyne flash version 4.0 which had an error when installing. I chose ignore and the install continued, but now with the latest Maestro update and files being saved as .mstro format I am unable to flash them. The flash program only looks for .tapp files. Anyone else run into this problem?

edit -- Problem solved: Chris emailed me back and suggested I try installing as admin. That solved my problem and now everything is working again.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

derekb727 said:


> You can buy additional maestro licenses for 499.


more info on this? are u saying u can just pay 499 and then flash another car?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

i cant save anything as a mstro file. also how come under select base files there are none for awm?


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

tojr1088 said:


> more info on this? are u saying u can just pay 499 and then flash another car?


Yes that's correct just email him


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

derekb727 said:


> Yes that's correct just email him


thats weird. so like why would say my buddy pay 800 for maestro if i can pay 499 and put the file on his car?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> thats weird. so like why would say my buddy pay 800 for maestro if i can pay 499 and put the file on his car?


because only your maestro cable would be able to edit his file.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Good news, bad news


bad news my maestro cable got damaged, emailed arnold for warranty info but seems like an easy fix it's just the black box where the cable,plugs in came out.

I did notice the stage 2 file included was different then the one I got from from chris. I load that up and swapped it over to a power enrichment style map, basically extracting the full load lambda map and using it in the power enrichment. Once my cable is fixed I'll upload that for people if they wanna use it.

It seems you select a base profile and once you save your locked into that base file your first file you flash will be a maestro file, any file after that I believe will be a tapp file. I was gonna test this but yeah cable broke.

Also i did notice that the BT maffed files that chris actually uses the power enrichment map. Could anyone post up a picture of the fuel load lambda maps for the 630 maffed file since I can't see it anymore. I did notice that egt threshold is set at like 600 but not sure if the map is completely disabled.

But aside from the timing being a tad high because of my awesome **** 91 california gas the file runs amazing well! Planning to get my water/meth in on Thursday, then once I get my cable fixed it's time to see what I can really pull out of the k03s before I swap the BT motor in


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I'm waiting for my cable to come back from chris. I was having issues with it dropping connection randomly. After 5 different cables I finally decided to double check laptop and even if it would read another car. Turns out it was the dongle.

On a side note. Anyone using the active vvt files having issues losing o2 corrections ? I use to lose them occasionally if the actual lamda dipped below 11.5:1. It would lose corrections for area seconds and then start correcting again. 

Ever since I flashed the active vvt file it'll lose o2 and stay turned off until I restart the car. I would think o2 sensor but its wired that simply restarting the car would fix that. It leads me to believe software to be the culprit over hardware at this point.. 

My only theories:

1) file is screwy
I doubt this since chris can't replicate the issue. Also Doug from frankenturbo runs the exact file like me.

2) o2 sensor is shot
I doubt this also since a simple off and on fixes the issue.

3) maybe since vvt is active and I've deleted all emission stuff (and haven't put in resistors yet) o2 corrections go bye bye and can't be recovered? 


What do you guys think? I'm just waiting for the resistors to come in the mail.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I'm waiting for my cable to come back from chris. I was having issues with it dropping connection randomly. After 5 different cables I finally decided to double check laptop and even if it would read another car. Turns out it was the dongle.
> 
> On a side note. Anyone using the active vvt files having issues losing o2 corrections ? I use to lose them occasionally if the actual lamda dipped below 11.5:1. It would lose corrections for area seconds and then start correcting again.
> 
> ...


are your VVT things toggled off as well as the emissions stuff? Are you losing 02 corrections only in the portion where the VVT is used? It might be changing your torque enough to move it off the correction range.

Now if the the loss of 02 correction happens at throttle tip in then get back in range this what is happening.

The reason you read zero in the situation above is the correction caused by the acceleration pedal map is SO great that it enriches the mixture to outside ecu correction range, the ecu stop trying to correct and just begins to fully lean out the mixture as much as it can until it comes back into correction range and corrections can continue.

This is one of the main reason I begin working with a power enrichment solution to a stock turbo file, I found that once the ECU goes outside of the correction range and the 02 correction is loss, the ecu uncontrollably begins to lean the mixture, even when correction returns it takes a second or 2 for the ecu's corrections to regain control of the fuel trim. This causes a fuel trim that is bad for ideal tuning. As boost rises you want fuel to enrich in a steady controlled manner, slamming fuel down to 11.5 having it lean back up to 14.7 then back to 12.2 isn't good for reducing knock, and I think a lot of knock is induced because of the fuel trims in stock turbo tunes being controlled by massive adjustments on the acceleration fuel table.

Ideally, you would want the car to begin enrichment and lower the target lambda, and use the acceleration fuel table to add in the enrichment, but not so much it knocks the ecu out of correction range.

Unfortunately I have the problem back because I am using stock stage 2 accel fuel table while using my transcript ed power enrichment map. VCDS showed me at like .736 lambda it was right around 11.6 Once i get a fix on my cable I will be working to make the tip in shoot for 12.5 hopefully getting everything in line.

Going on the hunt for toluene here shortly to get my octane up, until I get my meth kit in. Hoping the ecu helps out a bit with the rich tip in... Overall the tune adapted nicely for a purely mathematical conversation to power enrichment, quite happy with it


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Actually it drives fine. I mostly lose corrections AFTER I do a full throttle run. Its usually only after I lift and be back into it to drive normally that its not correcting anything. Afr hovers from 13.5-15.7 depending on rpms or load. Not a huge deal but it is in this condition. If I try to do another full throttle run afr is all over and runs like ****. It never did this on the old non active vvt file. Even if I continue to drive it won't recover the corrections. If I quick engine off and then back on boom. They're back. Weird no? And yes they are turned off in the file.


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

cruzanstx said:


> AMU 225tt narrowband looking to get this, is it absolutely nessacary to go wideband ecu before getting this? And if i choose to stay narrowband what am i missing out on? I know my afr wont be as precise but what does that tangibly translate to(I cant go mafless)?
> 
> I did a few searches but didnt find too much about amu on eurodyne.


lol anyone?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Actually it drives fine. I mostly lose corrections AFTER I do a full throttle run. Its usually only after I lift and be back into it to drive normally that its not correcting anything. Afr hovers from 13.5-15.7 depending on rpms or load. Not a huge deal but it is in this condition. If I try to do another full throttle run afr is all over and runs like ****. It never did this on the old non active vvt file. Even if I continue to drive it won't recover the corrections. If I quick engine off and then back on boom. They're back. Weird no? And yes they are turned off in the file.


Steve- when my 02 sensor was toasted I would get corrections then a value of 58 or 0 for a very long time in the log. After an ignition cycle and the 02 correction would start back up. You might want to check your sensor visually quickly.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

DougLoBue said:


> Steve- when my 02 sensor was toasted I would get corrections then a value of 58 or 0 for a very long time in the log. After an ignition cycle and the 02 correction would start back up. You might want to check your sensor visually quickly.


Was yours shot? Mines no more than 1.5years old. Less than 10k miles on it. That's my only thinking that its not the sensor.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Mine was less than a few weeks old!

I think we run our cars so rich under boost or at least in the tuning/logging phase that it toasts the sensor. Mine came out caked with black crap. I hear it's not uncommon for BT guys to change their sensor every 3 months. As soon as I get on e85 I hope to ditch that concept.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

anyone know why there arent awm basefiles?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> anyone know why there arent awm basefiles?


Did you ask Chris?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

spartiati said:


> Was yours shot? Mines no more than 1.5years old. Less than 10k miles on it. That's my only thinking that its not the sensor.


why not check your lambda or A/F values and see if they ever appear out of range. I've read that some guys are killing their o2 sensors with water/meth (I'm not sure if this is true or not).


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Budsdubbin said:


> why not check your lambda or A/F values and see if they ever appear out of range. I've read that some guys are killing their o2 sensors with water/meth (I'm not sure if this is true or not).


The issue isn't lambda being in check. It is. It just loses corrections.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

I've been running w/m for over a yr an not a problem with sensor...to this day i see O2 corrections all the time and at all rpms.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

I've never seen that occur in the 30+ hrs of beta logging I completed.

What brand o2 did you get oem bosch? I've been hearing bad things from some people saying they aren't up to quality anymore and have been selling customers densos. Regardless I replaced my original 80k sensor with a new bosch unit. No problems here and I didn't even notice a change in A/F or corrections after replacing it. Didn't look bad for 80k at all.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

DougLoBue said:


> Mine was less than a few weeks old!
> 
> I think we run our cars so rich under boost or at least in the tuning/logging phase that it toasts the sensor. Mine came out caked with black crap. I hear it's not uncommon for BT guys to change their sensor every 3 months. As soon as I get on e85 I hope to ditch that concept.


That is all indicative of the tune. There is no reason a well running car will blow through o2s every few months.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I've never seen that occur in the 30+ hrs of beta logging I completed.
> 
> What brand o2 did you get oem bosch? I've been hearing bad things from some people saying they aren't up to quality anymore and have been selling customers densos. Regardless I replaced my original 80k sensor with a new bosch unit. No problems here and I didn't even notice a change in A/F or corrections after replacing it. Didn't look bad for 80k at all.


OEM Bosch direct fit #17014 if my memory is right. I went through a lot of them last year too- had at least 3 in the car but also had a Uni tune that was all sorts of terrible.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> Did you ask Chris?


I never get emails back


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> I never get emails back


Same


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> I never get emails back


Strange, I always do.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> Strange, I always do.


U using [email protected]?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> U using [email protected]?


Yeah, sometimes I've had to wait a couple of days, but he always seems to get back to me.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

got my car running last night on my new fueling setup and took a video of some flames :laugh:


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

What Rpm was that?


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

dubbin_boho said:


> got my car running last night on my new fueling setup and took a video of some flames :laugh:


I enjoy the strobing led license plate light then the lack luster flames out of the exhaust...


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

codergfx said:


> What Rpm was that?


3500


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

my plate lights both strobed after like 3 months of them being it I just swapped back to oem bulbs... the only 2 L.E.D. I put in that lasted past 3 months were my dome light up front and the driver side map light other then that they are started to strobe it's ****ing annonying.

A luck has it toluene and Xylene is now illegal in commufornia so I gotta head up to the airport gas stations and get some 100 octane. It's seems the car isn't going to adapt out the rich condition so I gotta work on that once I get my cable up and running.

Does anyone know what exactly the acceleration fuel map changes? I know the function of the map but I'm not sure if the adjustments are to injection time or what, know what the map modifies would great speed up the process of tuning it in.

Water/meth going in on thursday, already have a meth supplier so long ****ty 91 octane!


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=180726167915&index=6&nav=SEARCH&nid=60324603360

I have these and are stupid bright. No blinking either. Plug and play.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I had dead rich spots w/ no adaptation when I had massive exhaust leaks. You're 100% positive your hardware isn't leaking?


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## AzDubbin1.8t (Apr 20, 2007)

How long does it usually take to hear back from chris. I emailed him early afternoon about getting my log in ID and havent heard anything yet. Im just anxious to get started. I also emailed eurodyne like 3 weeks ago asking about maestro 7 before I ordered it and no one emailed me back...


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

AzDubbin1.8t said:


> How long does it usually take to hear back from chris. I emailed him early afternoon about getting my log in ID and havent heard anything yet. Im just anxious to get started. I also emailed eurodyne like 3 weeks ago asking about maestro 7 before I ordered it and no one emailed me back...


Try calling


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

toulene/xylene here is ridiculous..i use it if i want a buffer for some knock..at $23 a gallon..not worth it. but we have 92 which is usually 91 anyway. it's a killer.

how much is your [email protected] pump? our single pump has been down for a year, and i really wanna try the 100 with meth and such now...even if our 100 is $10/gl


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

AzDubbin1.8t said:


> How long does it usually take to hear back from chris. I emailed him early afternoon about getting my log in ID and havent heard anything yet. Im just anxious to get started. I also emailed eurodyne like 3 weeks ago asking about maestro 7 before I ordered it and no one emailed me back...


If this was monday it was a holiday in Ontario.


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## AzDubbin1.8t (Apr 20, 2007)

Oh ok well they had all day today to email back. Oh well I'll wait another day or 2


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

When I ran a lot of Toluene, I always bought it at flea markets. We have one nearby that's good for at least a few gallons every couple of weeks. I don't think I ever paid more than $3-4 a gallon for it.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Vegeta Gti said:


> how much is your [email protected] pump? our single pump has been down for a year, and i really wanna try the 100 with meth and such now...even if our 100 is $10/gl


Here in PA I was paying $6.99 last year for Sunoco 100 octane.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

gettng ready to take the car out of storage, i adjusted for the 75mm TB last summer, but tweaking things to maximize makes me a little nervous.
and now i see some new gadgets from the euordyne site. any suggestions or hints would be appreciated. saw 360whp last year without any adjustments and the water/meth hooked up. i know im capable of alot more, just need some insight on how to get there
:beer:


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## AzDubbin1.8t (Apr 20, 2007)

Is anyone running the maestro 7 off a Mac Book Pro? Just wondering if the program is compatible


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## AzDubbin1.8t (Apr 20, 2007)

Kinda annoyed. I emailed eurodyne 2 times to get my user id. Then i called today and they said they would email the user id right over and i still havent gotten anything.  they seemed really nice and helpful over then phone so Im not sure whats going on.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

AzDubbin1.8t said:


> Kinda annoyed. I emailed eurodyne 2 times to get my user id. Then i called today and they said they would email the user id right over and i still havent gotten anything.  they seemed really nice and helpful over then phone so Im not sure whats going on.


Call back.. Its a small operation; only 2-3 people, and they're always swamped. Confirm your E-mail address as well.:thumbup:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

you could run it on a mac, with vmware fusion3


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

AzDubbin1.8t said:


> Is anyone running the maestro 7 off a Mac Book Pro? Just wondering if the program is compatible


Every day. You need a virtualization software like Parallels. And Windows.


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

im going to try this out this week as i need to reformat my Macbook anyways. Especially now that I made it thru this whole thread gathering info.:thumbup:


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

to whoever has an awm engine. chris said he will try to have awm base files in the next release :thumbup:


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

rodgertherabit said:


> im going to try this out this week as i need to reformat my Macbook anyways. Especially now that I made it thru this whole thread gathering info.:thumbup:


 This thread in a nutshell...

...25%- guys trying to get the dongle to work.

...25%- guys blaming the tune(s) for their hardware problems.

...10%- guys talking about how they can't get ahold of Chris Tapp.

...10%- Unitronic loyalists trying to convince guys they don't need it.

...20%- guys asking questions that were already answered

...18%- chit chat.

...2%- actual informative content.


If you skim all the BS; it doesn't take long to get to the "meat and potatoes" of the thread


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## AzDubbin1.8t (Apr 20, 2007)

Has any one had issues verifying their email adres? I got the user id from chris and then when i loged in it asked me to verify my email. I clicked that and it was supposed to email me a link in which I can verify my email but I never got anything in my email. I tried 3 times. Am I doing something wrong?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> This thread in a nutshell...
> 
> ...25%- guys trying to get the dongle to work.
> 
> ...



feels more like 60 percent guys asking already answered questions......


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> feels more like 60 percent guys asking already answered questions......


Your results may vary


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Your results may vary


would be sick if there was like a bull**** discussion thread kinda like this one......and hen a separate locked one just for information and instructionals/ maps etc.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

btw ill be diving into maestro on a 98 a4 with narrowband tuning for my buddy.....from what ive seen so far its nothing like what everything else has. But ill stand by for anyone in the same boat who cant find info on here. Even injector constant number etc. are all different and maps are different. there even only a handfull of maps even to adjust. also got boost manager and meth coming for both our cars


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

can i run the VVt tune without a maf?


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

tojr1088 said:


> would be sick if there was like a bull**** discussion thread kinda like this one......and hen a separate locked one just for information and instructionals/ maps etc.


I asked for a sticky when originally posted, but was told by mods that was unavailable due to advertising, and realistically, this thread (while long) has stayed relevant for over 2 years. Things like launch control and VVT are why


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

codergfx said:


> can i run the VVt tune without a maf?


yes, thats how I was running it.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

although chris didnt want me to say anything  i was informed that just in the case of a 2001 awm ecu that you may in fact use awp basefiles from volkswagen. only in this scenario will file from separate ecus work however. also awp has more available options. awm files to be included soon tho.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> btw ill be diving into maestro on a 98 a4 with narrowband tuning for my buddy.....from what ive seen so far its nothing like what everything else has. But ill stand by for anyone in the same boat who cant find info on here. Even injector constant number etc. are all different and maps are different. there even only a handfull of maps even to adjust. also got boost manager and meth coming for both our cars


ME5 ECU most likely.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> ME5 ECU most likely.


I know its me5 just saying there's almost no info on me5 maestro on here at all. Its alot different and ill prob be one of the few messing with it if anyone needs help


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## MikeKondilis (Mar 3, 2007)

So when I download this new map that chris tapp will send me I can actually drive my car! I'm doing a 630cc gt3071r mafless he shouldn't have a problem tuning it?


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Tried my 1st trace on my histogram (after I loaded a log) for my main Fuel Correction and I click trace but no values show up in the histogram... Whats this all about?

Also, all my values are set at 1.001 as opposed to the "128.00" value that is seen in the map descriptions...


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

rodgertherabit said:


> Tried my 1st trace on my histogram (after I loaded a log) for my main Fuel Correction and I click trace but no values show up in the histogram... Whats this all about?
> 
> Also, all my values are set at 1.001 as opposed to the "128.00" value that is seen in the map descriptions...


Read back a couple pages, its covered.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

MikeKondilis said:


> So when I download this new map that chris tapp will send me I can actually drive my car! I'm doing a 630cc gt3071r mafless he shouldn't have a problem tuning it?


He gives u a base file library. Use the base file for ur car and flash it and ur good 2 go. He doesn't tune your car specifically. You get the same tune we all get just slightly different depending on injector and maf size.


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Read back a couple pages, its covered.


Yeah, I read Cryser's post and realize the Main corrections arent of any primary concern, but nothing happening with the histogram is confusing me.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

So last night I tried to run the new AWP 1000cc file on my car w/ VVT. *I don't have VVT.*

What can I set the VVT table values to so the software thinks that it's always regular timing? Aka disabled.

Edit: If someone could tell me for now that would be great just to run the new file for a week, but I just ordered a VVT tensioner and new chain.


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

Got quoted narrowband to wideband conversion with wb ecu, maestro7 and labor 2400. 1400 parts 1k labor. 

Does that sound about right?

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

cruzanstx said:


> Got quoted narrowband to wideband conversion with wb ecu, maestro7 and labor 2400. 1400 parts 1k labor.
> 
> Does that sound about right?
> 
> Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk


Dayum makes me glad I do work my self lol


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

Yah I wish I could but I researched it and it seems a tad out of my DIY comfort zone especially since its my dd.


Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

So ive read through the "who's using vvt to make power thread"

I'm just trying to understand it's effects. Is there a benefit to keeping the cam advanced if the turbo has fully spooled up? I know the best thing would be to get the car on the dyno and see its effects on power. I just don't want to have the vvt active past a certain point if it's not necessary. Has anyone played around with this?


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

What can be caused if your car is flashed and its flashed with a 6 speed tune and your car is a 5 speed?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

derekb727 said:


> What can be caused if your car is flashed and its flashed with a 6 speed tune and your car is a 5 speed?


different load calculations based on gearing being different is the only thing I can assume. Just toggle the option and reflash


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

yeah, my base tune had the 5sp option selected. Car ran fine, Switched it and deleted my SAI at the same time :thumbup:


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## guy022077 (Feb 25, 2004)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> This thread in a nutshell...
> 
> ...25%- guys trying to get the dongle to work.
> 
> ...


and that 2% inst even for AEBers but there is some good info


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

guy022077 said:


> and that 2% inst even for AEBers but there is some good info


ill be working on some for the aeb crowd. hopefully it comes in for my customers by the end of next week. will be running a 3076r with 630's and the eurodyne boost manager with meth pump. looks like sick stuff :thumbup:


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## tom8thebomb (Nov 28, 2002)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> This thread in a nutshell...
> 
> ...25%- guys trying to get the dongle to work.
> 
> ...


my favorite post in the thread


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

no response from C. Tapp or Arnold for over a week,(weird I usually get a response from Arnold instantly. Guess I'm calling canada up on monday and see if fixing the dongle myself is okay, I just need to replace the serial port on it.


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Cryser said:


> DougLo
> 
> Power enrichment is lambda control before EGT threshold is reached, yours is currently deactivated by the axis and not being used to control anything in your tune.
> 
> ...


Any update with this? Im gonna try switching my values to 1.001 and see what happens. I Assume this applies for all basic files/set ups?

Also, What maps/blocks should one log for 02 corrections to adjust the OPT torq?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

spartiati said:


> So ive read through the "who's using vvt to make power thread"
> 
> I'm just trying to understand it's effects. Is there a benefit to keeping the cam advanced if the turbo has fully spooled up? I know the best thing would be to get the car on the dyno and see its effects on power. I just don't want to have the vvt active past a certain point if it's not necessary. Has anyone played around with this?


Said it several times in that thread gains on smaller framed turbos will be minimal. Its been documented on the k03 cars about a 5-10 BTQ gain in the midrange, just a little more area under the curve (or wheelspin). Supposely there is a point when gains diminish and its more optimum to have the camshaft in normal position or retarded. You need to find out this point, no one can probably tell you as you have aftermarket TB, cam etc. I believe 034 was using a cutoff of 6200 RPM; different setup, dispacement, cams yadayada. Badger 5 is probably the only guy with real insight into your setup and has been doing hybrids and vvt for a few years. 

I havent tried it yet but my next file to burn has the VVT enabled to 6000 RPM. I'm also running a cam gear retarded a 1/2 degree. I'm hoping in March I can get some dyno time and compare some curves. I can tell you that playing with the optimum timing maps will definetly affect spoolup characteristics of the setup. I was shuffling my around for a little bit and you definetly vary spool by several hundred RPM just by the modifying the timing on the OPT. Timing Maps.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

On a stock cam, airflows suffer with the VVT engaged past 4500rpms.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

[email protected]m said:


> On a stock cam, airflows suffer with the VVT engaged past 4500rpms.


Based on findings where? Your particular setup? Cam testing? My findings on my car seem to point that _my optimum setting _is higher. Keep in mind my turbo spools like a turd with no vvt..


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

It's an easy question to answer. Map the cam for no VVT. Log it. Map the cam for VVT constantly on. Log again. That's how I came to the determination that VVT active past 4500 is detrimental to performance.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> It's an easy question to answer. Map the cam for no VVT. Log it. Map the cam for VVT constantly on. Log again. That's how I came to the determination that VVT active past 4500 is detrimental to performance.


I will do that as soon as I get my car back on the road. I'm curious to see if it behaves the same way on a larger turbo. I did not change any of Tapps settings per his request for logging. I was questioning because I thought others had the best luck with a higher switchover point. Will be a few weeks before I can report back as im involved in a wire tuck now.



Seems like there are only 5 people who drive there cars reading this thread. Not even a single comment or review of a vvt file yet. :screwy: Everyone must be winter building....


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm going to give the VVT file a shot on my setup once the snow clears up here. Has anyone noticed the VVT files have a higher EGT threshold? Anyone care to offer any insights as to why? It is considerably higher.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Seems like there are only 5 people who drive there cars reading this thread. Not even a single comment or review of a vvt file yet. :screwy: Everyone must be winter building....


Just pulled these out to help fund my stroker Kit, brand new looking Brutes already sold:thumbup:










Literally pulled them out 1/2 hr ago... 20MM here I come... So yeah can't drive now:laugh: Can't wait to try VVT on my 3658 and new setup:thumbup:


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

well, yesterday I tried to flash the 630cc VVT active file (AWP), I have an AWW, so it should've been fine. Start the car up and idle is golden, UNTIL the O2 starts correcting, at which point, it pulls 25% fuel, nearly stalls, stops pulling, catches itself, and repeats the process over and over.
At one point it did stall. 

So, I flashed back to my original 630cc base, no problem at all. I don't even know where to start to get it running with the new file, as there should be no issue, both files should idle and really be the same, save the VVT. 

Anyone got any insight? I'm MAFless btw.... mods are in the sig, though I doubt it is hardware related since flashing back to the other file makes the problem go away


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

sabbySC said:


> Has anyone noticed the VVT files have a higher EGT threshold? Anyone care to offer any insights as to why? It is considerably higher.


My understanding is he changed it so it behaves more like how Bosch designed it. Through my conversations with Chris he said you can tune whichever map you desire. With the recent addition of "no torque model intervention over 100%" there will be no difference in how the car makes power, as they are only a lambda lookup reference. That being said I've lowered my egt threshold down so my "full load lambda" map is utilized. I prefer the load based lambda control, to me it seems much more versatile especially with its much larger map. On the other hand you can leave it as is and tune via power enrichment how Bosch designed it. Then full load lambda will act as a safety net only activating once calculated EGTs have exceeded threshold. In this case I would richen up FLL so it helps to cool EGTs. I have never had problems meeting target lambda and feel my engine is safe so I will give up the safety net for better lambda control. In my tunes I'm adjusting the whole lambda area--light boost, spool up , peak boost onset, high rpms-- I vary it based on what I believe is optimum; I'm not a fan of the base file targeting 11.2 a/f everywhere


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Lol winter building sounds about right!








:beer: cant wait to try VVT


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I think people tend to forget these are base maps that are meant to be tuned by the individual. Everything is tuned relatively safe in terms of AFR so that you can lean it out on the dyno and find your optimal AFR with your fuels used, supplemental injection system, etc.

I think I stated before but I did have a chance to look at all over the base maps before my cable bit the dust, and I did see chris used the power enrichment over the full load lambda for the VVT files. As stated above your tuning approach is your tuning approach, and I wouldn't be surprised to see files that are the same in every way shape or form except one uses full load and one uses power enrichment. The other benefit of the power enrichment map is it's much easier to get the car to proactively change the AFR instead of retroactively, which helps reduce knock on spool up.

once I get my cable up and running I'll load up my stage 2 power enrichment map if people wanna use it instead of the full load lambda approach.

To be quite honest once you understand the power enrichment map(I'll try and get a good explanation up about it soon, I swear been busy with school and engine build a lot lately) you'll begin to see that the huge resolution of the full load lambda map isn't really necessary and in a way can be a hindrance because you have more room to make too sharp of adjustments that the ecu doesn't really like and will behave weird.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Anyone here run a 4" MAF? What profile are you using or did you write a custom one? I found this article and spreadsheet: http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=995

Also anyone here write a profile for a non-vw MAF sensor? Say a Ford or Subaru sensor?


I look forward to the PE description/MAP! :thumbup:
Also my VVT module coming in so I can try the new files.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Cryser said:


> The other benefit of the power enrichment map is it's much easier to get the car to proactively change the AFR instead of retroactively, which helps reduce knock on spool up.


I would love an explanation of this as Chris Tapp told me several times that these maps are used only as a reference for lambda lookup value. In no way will one map yield different results according to him. Cruising at 14.7 into throttle tipping into throttle it will lookup the desired A/F value from whichever chart its told to lookup. It doesn't care where its coming from only the value of the target cell. I asked him several times as everyone knows he is difficult to get elaborate explanations out of.


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Cryser said:


> once I get my cable up and running I'll load up my stage 2 power enrichment map if people wanna use it instead of the full load lambda approach.


Cant Wait! Looking forward to a description of the process too! 

This will greatly help me (and probably many others) understand the process :thumbup:


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## *CHEWY (Jan 28, 2011)

*running to rich*

I have a 02 jetta 1.8t (AWP)
I just rebuilt the top end.
Head rebuilt, ported and polished and flowed.
630 cc injectors, 255 inline pump, GT3071r, external wastegate set to .8 Bar, kinetic FMIC, and useing eurodyne maestro 7 630 mafless tune, BKR8EIX spark plugs
currently the car has a cat and then 2.5" straight pipe exhaust system, (soon to become draft 42 3" turbo back kit)
I have deleted the SAI, evap system, n249 valve and egr valve.
Since the car has been completed it has been running super rich.
Could you please give me some info on how to lean it out a little useing maestro 7, or anything else.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*CHEWY said:


> I have a 02 jetta 1.8t (AWP)
> I just rebuilt the top end.
> Head rebuilt, ported and polished and flowed.
> 630 cc injectors, 255 inline pump, GT3071r, external wastegate set to .8 Bar, kinetic FMIC, and useing eurodyne maestro 7 630 mafless tune, BKR8EIX spark plugs
> ...


Did you ressistor your deletes?
Those aren't platinum plugs right?
Download the help file and read it if you havent.


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## *CHEWY (Jan 28, 2011)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Did you ressistor your deletes?
> Those aren't platinum plugs right?
> Download the help file and read it if you havent.



No I have not ressistored off my deletes. I was told there is no need to with maestro. I have had no engine lights on.
The spark plugs are iridium.
which help file?


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

*CHEWY said:


> No I have not ressistored off my deletes. I was told there is no need to with maestro. I have had no engine lights on.
> The spark plugs are iridium.
> which help file?


 
You must resistor stuff (even with maestro)otherwise you won't adapt, check out 032 in measuring blocks bet its 0 in both columns.... Go to Eurodynes website and read there in the forum, also talks alot about adjusting BVC and IC


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

That's the reason I got resistors for my deletes


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## *CHEWY (Jan 28, 2011)

One-Eight GTI said:


> You must resistor stuff (even with maestro)otherwise you won't adapt, check out 032 in measuring blocks bet its 0 in both columns.... Go to Eurodynes website and read there in the forum, also talks alot about adjusting BVC and IC


I will resistor off the 4 plugs (1/2 W and 330 ohm right?)
When the car is running again i will check the measuring blocks.
This would be a big reason why it is running so rich?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

I got 3.3k ohm 10w


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## *CHEWY (Jan 28, 2011)

How are you installing the resistors?


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*CHEWY said:


> How are you installing the resistors?


Integrated Engineering sells the resistors now with plugs attached; so there's no need to hack your harness :thumbup:


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## AzDubbin1.8t (Apr 20, 2007)

I recieved the base file license key from chris. Im not sure what I do next or where I save it.? When I open the flash loader and hit flash ecu it opens my computer and all my files and stuff. So is that mean Im supposed to save the license key somewhere in order to use it? I have the maestro help files but they didnt seem too helpful with this part


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> Anyone here run a 4" MAF? What profile are you using or did you write a custom one? I found this article and spreadsheet: http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=995
> 
> Also anyone here write a profile for a non-vw MAF sensor? Say a Ford or Subaru sensor?


Stick with the OEM sensor -- just go with a bigger housing and re-scale using the spreadsheet. Easier still would be to use one of the bigger MAF profiles in Maestro.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I would love an explanation of this as Chris Tapp told me several times that these maps are used only as a reference for lambda lookup value. In no way will one map yield different results according to him. Cruising at 14.7 into throttle tipping into throttle it will lookup the desired A/F value from whichever chart its told to lookup. It doesn't care where its coming from only the value of the target cell. I asked him several times as everyone knows he is difficult to get elaborate explanations out of.


Chris is 100% it doesn't matter which map you use because both are just targets lambda's that the ecu are looking up. But with the egt threshold model you have to either set the threshold so low it's always on, or your waiting for that threshold to be met before fuel changes are made by the ecu. Since the egt threshold is a calculated egt from the front lambda sensor trying to set the switch point to be prefect becomes extremely hard.

With the power enrichment map it's all based on how much torque your making in relation to how much your requesting. It's much easier and precise when your setting that switch over point from 14.7 to richer mixture.

I'll have some time to get the memo typed out tonight after class which will go into much more detail. But the X-axis works like this:

lets say you are driving along and request 60% of your available torque. As the actual torque begins to build the ecu will begin to move toward the value that is being requested at 60% for your current rpm. Now if your holding the pedal at the position that the car is requesting 60% torque once you reach 60% torque it will stop there and hold that AFR until torque either increase or decrease. One thing to note that happens is once the car reaches 100% torque that column will be used until the pedal is released from the 100% position, I believe this is something programed in the ecu.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Stick with the OEM sensor -- just go with a bigger housing and re-scale using the spreadsheet. Easier still would be to use on of the bigger MAF profiles in Maestro.


why do you think you need a 4" MAF, the v8 MAF from the audi that have an included profile should be well within the range of 600+ horsepower... If your making more then that then sure go for it, but for power levels over that it's safe to assume the car is gonna be tracked a good amount, which at that point it would seem like the worth of dialing in a MAFLESS tune would be worth the effort.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Where did the quick tune go on the flash page go?

How do i set the 2 step? 

Why on my pump gas timing map does it only go out to 7750rpm?

why on almost all maps does it not go out to my rev limit of 8300 on the axis?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

derekb727 said:


> Where did the quick tune go on the flash page go?
> 
> How do i set the 2 step?
> 
> ...


My cables packed up to be repaired, but the quick tune was in the menu bar in the flashloader program, this it's the 2nd or 3rd option you'll find it, you can set 2 step there to be on and adjust the general settings there.

There reason your maps don't go out to 8300 is because they don't have to. If you last cell is 5000rpm, the ecu uses that value for everything past 5000... there might be small adjustments made by the ecu to guess but I'm not sure. You of course can change this by editing the axis, but once you began the ecu better and really start to understand the concept of Interpolation. You will begin to realize that having last cell be the absolute limit of your rpm is detrimental to power.

Quick example: let's say your using the timing map and your last 2 column of your Y axis(rpm) are 6000 and 7000... your red line is assumed 7000 the values of these cells are 22 and 24

Set like that, you car will continue to slowly raise timing to finally reach 24 @ 7k but in reality we want 24* of timing from like 6700 to 7000.

If we change the 7000 axis to 6700, then the ecu will reach 24* of timing @ 6.7K and continue to hold that value past to your red line of 7000.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

*Power Enrichment Map*
_Axis Descriptions and Usage Theory_​
Okay here is a bit of background information and "pecking order" of this map.

This map's main function is to control the *Target Lambda* of the car. This map is not an adjustment map it is actual control over what Lambda the car actively targets based upon the amount of torque the ecu is currently sensing. Now what people need to understand about AFR is within the ME7.5 system we need to adjust our thinking based on what is found not only freely on the internet but in many books about the subject. A lot of people relate enriching the mixture to increase in boost pressure, in reality we are enriching the mixture because of torque... But for most people they don't have a computer saying "you are making 58% torque at 5000rpms" so boost is the best they can use. Yes there is some benefit to enriching mixture for cooling the cylinder charge and burn speed and a multitude of other things about tuning but adjustment to torque is a concept that will help you understand this map better and it's true power.

**An understanding of Interpolation is highly recommended as the Interpolation of the values are controlling your AFR, if you set some area's too lean you might begin to have problems.**

*X-Axis:* The X-axis is % of Actual Torque always related to 100% There are some guidelines I have come up with that will help give you base map regarding this axis.

The first Column should be no higher then 25% and no lower then 15%. And this column will always be filled with 1.001 effectively making the car target 14.7. What you are trying to do is control WHEN the Interpolation begins to the happen. By controlling this you will control the exact point when the car begins to enrich the mixture. It should be noted this acceleration fuel adjustment is what you should be using to control the "Tip in" fuel, this is for long term targeting of enriched mixtures.

**If this column holds values of anything but 1.001 the car will begin to target that AFR at all times until Interpolation with the second column. A Note this is *NOT* an effective way to lean out the car for better MPG in cruising situations, there is another variable we don't have access to that controls this. Trying with this map is NOT advised*

*Y axis:* is RPM but it's shared with another map somewhere you I wouldn't go about changing this until I can find the associated map that would need to be changed as well.

I was gonna try and help explain how to set up the X axis but with out access to my maps I'll wait for that it's just really hard to explain with just words.

Hope this helps people a bit with the map, it's a really powerful map once you get the hang of it.


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## vdubN228 (Aug 14, 2006)

Looks like something else on the list...:banghead: Too bad I just did the APR Flash. Keep your BSFC's in check. Humidity, intake temperature, and barometer all effect it. :beer:


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

This helped me from what you are saying above about interpolation

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpolation


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

derekb727 said:


> This helped me from what you are saying above about interpolation
> 
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpolation


Yup I would pay the most attention to the Second definition on that page



http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpolation said:


> In engineering and science, one often has a number of data points, obtained by sampling or experimentation, which represent the values of a function for a limited number of values of the independent variable. It is often required to interpolate (i.e. estimate) the value of that function for an intermediate value of the independent variable. This may be achieved by curve fitting or regression analysis.


Also the Curve fitting article described the process pretty well.

It's a very important process to understand especially the amount of data that the Maestro DataLog outputs... It's almost too much sometimes, but when you get down to the fine tuning, the interpolation of how the ecu works can help guide you to proper corrections.


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Cryser said:


> *Power Enrichment Map*
> _Axis Descriptions and Usage Theory_​
> 
> 
> ...


Could you please clear up if the Power Enrichment Map supposed to read 1.001 through *JUST* the 1st column or the whole map? Cause it was said previously the WHOLE map should read 1.001...


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I'm not sure why you would want to change these set target A/F's in any way. Ignore the incorrect torque demand axis.










So I'm trying to understand this interpolation model and from what I've gathered so far you have the power enrichment map which would be located in the A quadrant. Then the ECU would look to the next quadrant (B whichever map that is), C and then D and determine from the information provided weither to add injector pulse width, advance timing or request more boost in order to comply with the demands of the driver (demanded torque). Forgive me if I'm way off here but I'm still trying to understand this.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

rodgertherabit said:


> Could you please clear up if the Power Enrichment Map supposed to read 1.001 through *JUST* the 1st column or the whole map? Cause it was said previously the WHOLE map should read 1.001...


If your hardware is setup properly you should run the file as it is. The base files are fine there should be _no need _to adjust anything if you are running close to the hardware the file was designed for. Your most recent map from Eurodyne should have everything correctly setup. I would not advise fiddling with stuff until you really understand how everything operates and is interrelated. Cryser and I are simply hashing out theories....ME7 is no joke. I haven't asked him but I guarentee Cryser probably has well over 100+ hours into researching/reading and tinkering with the bosch maps. 

.....more to type when I have some free time...


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Budsdubbin said:


> I'm not sure why you would want to change these set target A/F's in any way. Ignore the incorrect torque demand axis.
> .


Because they are far from optimal. Its a base file set to cover a wide range of setups safely. Yes they work, are they ideal for max power? No, its a personal preference...I know I can milk more power from A/F.


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> If your hardware is setup properly you should run the file as it is. The base files are fine there should be _no need _to adjust anything if you are running close to the hardware the file was designed for. Your most recent map from Eurodyne should have everything correctly setup. I would not advise fiddling with stuff until you really understand how everything operates and is interrelated. Cryser and I are simply hashing out theories....ME7 is no joke. I haven't asked him but I guarentee Cryser probably has well over 100+ hours into researching/reading and tinkering with the bosch maps.
> 
> .....more to type when I have some free time...




Well, Im *trying* to understand before I do anything which is why im researching on my own and asking the more experienced for help/info/advice...

Other people have adjusted their base files to better suit their equipment, whether is 386cc, 630s or 1000cc injectors, and get better results so i dont understand why I shouldn't do the same as well..? 

I want the most out of what I have, the base file isnt doing it (i.e. Unsteady/inconsistent boost) as I know the car can pull harder and hold more boost. It certainly did with UNI...:screwy:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Because they are far from optimal. Its a base file set to cover a wide range of setups safely. Yes they work, are they ideal for max power? No, its a personal preference...I know I can milk more power from A/F.


sure dependant on turbo I understand but .83 is right where most want to be if they are going for optimal A/F for power. Unless a certain setup requires a richer mixture to play it safe (higher boost for one).... Regardless back to the interpolation model


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> sure dependant on turbo I understand but .83 is right where most want to be if they are going for optimal A/F for power. Unless a certain setup requires a richer mixture to play it safe (higher boost for one).... Regardless back to the interpolation model


I keep mine around .79


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

I have just noticed that some fault codes have been removed from the list in those VVT files compared to the previous non VVT files.
Does anyone know if there is a reason for this?

I have now some fault codes by using the VVT file that I had been able to delete in the past with the non VVT file:
- P1523 Message missing from Airbag controller
- P0562 System Voltage too low

but a lot of other fault codes have been removed.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Hey guys sorry this can't be a longer post to answer everything asked at the current time. I'm posting from class jsut letting my head cool from the hot tank, also helping a friend flow his head an our superflow motors are starting to over heat so we taking a break.

If the whole power enrichment map was 14.7 you would be always targeting that no matter what torque you were at... As you can probably see this would be bad at full torque.

The map posted is GREAT(when you fix the axis of course) for a base map. Personally I only use 1 column as oppose to 2 for more resolution with the map but if you only wanted to deal with 4 points to help guide the AFR curve then you can only use the 4 as that map is shown.

For the map that budsdubbin posted(thank you btw helps with explanations!)

you would edit the 3rd columm to about 50% the 4th to around 60% then maybe 80 and the last column 100. From there you would need a dyno or to very carefully watch the car's actual torque output for gains by adjusting the target AFR.

hope that kinda helps I'll be able to help more tonight.

As Tool stated before, I'm personally doing this because I want to tune this cars in race enviroments and make a living off doing that. The only way I would feel comfortable with myself would be if I fully understand the whoel system. I don't like to give answer like "Because it works or it makes power". I strive to know why the system does what it does. 

I am a firm believer in having to know the rules to bend and break them, and in racing you win by bending the rules as much as you can why still finishing the race.

I share this information with the community because I believe can benefit from it. Again, if you were sitting in from of me with maestro up and a map for me to show you this stuff I can teach you all I know in a day or 2 no problem and you would understand it a lot better. Unfornately I can only do what I can with the internet and words. Type long explanations isn't my strong suit when explaining complex theories like this 

And yes I have well over 100+ hours of data logged time and a good 450 different maps I have flashed, data loged and spend hours studying and looking for changes. That's how I came up with this theories, I would never post something I had not tested enough to formula a theory or ruleset that governs the behavior of what I'm trying to explain.

For the interpolation. Remember that picture the values inbetween the lines are no axis values but there to show you the "halfway" point where the various cells begin and end their influnce on the interpolation process. In that picture if the X axis was 5% load(stretch reality to conform to the printed numbers) and the rpm was 2250. The ECU would effectively be pulling for all for quardrants to interpolate the value. As load increase but RPM stayed the same, B and D would begin to show more influnce then A and C would on the load interpolated value until it reached 10 and they fully effected in(in reality this happens a tad before like 9.5) Same goes if the RPM increased but load stayed the same.

Couldn't check spelling or grammar so it might be a tad hard to read, gotta get back the flow bench is ready again!


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

So cryser what exactly is torque? Rpm vs load calculation? Or throttle position vs load?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

rodgertherabit said:


> I want the most out of what I have, the base file isnt doing it (*i.e. Unsteady/inconsistent boost*) as I know the car can pull harder and hold more boost. It certainly did with UNI...:screwy:


If your having issues with boost and your hardware is tidy (its not if your running MBC) you probably need to do some work to the Boost PID, duty and VE under boost control. I don't have any experience tuning the n75 but some have done it here. If no one chimes in there is some good information in this Audizine thread http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/402750-The-Great-Maestro-7-Tuning-Suite-Thread regarding n75 tuning.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

codergfx said:


> So cryser what exactly is torque? Rpm vs load calculation? Or throttle position vs load?


If you want some reading shoot me your email and I'll send you a few docs. It will give you a much clearer understanding. Thats a long answer there.


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## AzDubbin1.8t (Apr 20, 2007)

In the diagnostics part of maestro what things can I turn off that I dont need to run the car?? I turned off the evap & sai and car seems to be driving a little better


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## rstrf16 (Nov 15, 2006)

Quick question...looking to put a 3" maf on the car. What should I be looking for? I believe I saw something about a mk1 TT or s5 someplace?

TIA


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

TT225 sensor and housing. You want the AMU motor unit.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> If you want some reading shoot me your email and I'll send you a few docs. It will give you a much clearer understanding. Thats a long answer there.


Tool would you might sending me those docs as well, never pass up a chance for some reading material =)

yes it's a pretty long answer, on how you arrive at the value since it spans a few maps. If you go back a few pages and read the post I did on how the drivers wish is followed through the torque maps that will give you a start to your answer.

But for a direct answer the axis labeled % torque is better labeled in the VVT files as torque demand.

While the axis does follow Actual Torque, it will limit it progression once the Torque Demand is reached.

So in essences lets say you are demanding 75% of your torque(just assume is the output demand, lets not worry how the ecu gets this value, just accept it as the out puted value for torque demand).

The ECU will begin to look at the power enrichment table and use your ACTUAL torque as the value to match across the X axis until your Demand of 75% is reached. Once your demand is reached you'll be targeting the lambda target in the Cell value of 75%.

IF the above happened yet you only are demanding 45% of your torque, the same who happen but you would stop at the value for 45%.

This is why interpolation really needs to be understood to full use this table, there is only in reality 5 columns you can use as control points, everything else is on the computer to interpolate. So once you get your base fuel curve, you need to begin to adjust the axis so that the interpolation of your values are okay when your at partial throttle.

To be honest, if you are really interested in understanding this map. Take the PE map from a VVT file that is close to your MAFless file and being to adjust the X axis by lowering it and then drive around at partial throttle and log or have someone watch the AFR. Then lower it by 10% at the point where the values change. And repeat, try and keep the same pedal position for the various partial throttle runs. Watch out the afr dips not only faster and more suddenly but it does this sooner. Another thing you'll realize is your AFR while holding partial throttle at the same point should be richer. Once you see it in the datalogs it's easier to understand.

(If I remember correctly the VVT file PE maps are just a block where chris dumps it to 11.8 the first column where this happens is the column you wanna play with, you maybe have to lower the column before this as well to allow interpolation to happened sooner if the values get too close to each other)


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Cryser said:


> For the interpolation. Remember that picture the values inbetween the lines are no axis values but there to show you the "halfway" point where the various cells begin and end their influnce on the interpolation process. In that picture if the X axis was 5% load(stretch reality to conform to the printed numbers) and the rpm was 2250. The ECU would effectively be pulling for all for quardrants to interpolate the value. As load increase but RPM stayed the same, B and D would begin to show more influnce then A and C would on the load interpolated value until it reached 10 and they fully effected in(in reality this happens a tad before like 9.5) Same goes if the RPM increased but load stayed the same.


So all theres left to know is which where each map fits in the Model... A, B, C, or D. Now is there more than one model for interpolation? For instance one for Target torque(involving boost/timing maps) and Target A/F or is this just a model for target load and isn't used in the other maps.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Cryser said:


> Tool would you might sending me those docs as well, never pass up a chance for some reading material =)
> 
> yes it's a pretty long answer, on how you arrive at the value since it spans a few maps. If you go back a few pages and read the post I did on how the drivers wish is followed through the torque maps that will give you a start to your answer.
> 
> ...


at the same time your theory works well, but idk to me it makes more sense to use fuel by load like the Protection map to me anyways, how much does it affect the timing? and how do you guys adjust your optimum engine torque map?


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Anyone wanna take a look at these and tell me what you see?


Pull 1

Pull 2

Pull 3

All Pulls are interstate with 4 people (avg weight of each person is 150) and 1/2 tank of gas




*Mods*
IE CVA1 cams
AEB Head stock ports
ST Inconel Valves
ST Springs and Retainers
ARP head studs
Bored and Stroked to a 2.0l
Brute 20mm rods
JE Pistons 9.0:1
IE Crank Dowel Kit
ARP Crank Bolt
Fluidampr
BW S259 .90 a/r
ATP Cast Mani
Apexi Core
2.5 piping hot side 3.0 hotside
80mm Hemi Throttle Body
HKS SSQV BOV
Turbonetics Wastegate
Custom Intake Manifold
Intake mani gasket spacer thing
Eurodyne Maestro Suite
Injector Dynamic 1000cc
IE red anodized fuel rail


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> So all theres left to know is which where each map fits in the Model... A, B, C, or D. Now is there more than one model for interpolation? For instance one for Target torque(involving boost/timing maps) and Target A/F or is this just a model for target load and isn't used in the other maps.


what? interpolation works the same every map, it's a function the ecu uses to create numbers between predetermined set data points. I don't get where you get that there are 4 different models? The a,b,c,d are just there to show cells in a table. They aren't completely different maps. 

I think you guys are over complicating things. Re read the explanations posted from wiki about interpolation.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

has anyone tried running a 3bar map sensor ? what would really be neccesary to get it work like the stock one. i have an aem truboost controller but cant get it to stop spiking and wanna see if my n75 will hold steady boost better. has anyone done this? is there any other ways to fool the n75 to go higher such as maybe adding a resistor or something inline to the n75?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

derekb727 said:


> Anyone wanna take a look at these and tell me what you see?
> 
> 
> Pull 1
> ...


Are you in 3rd gear? Your spinning the tires so it's hard to use any of that data to dial things in. I will note your o2 corrections are too high basically in and out of boost .... 

I would try using 4th and starting off low like 2500 3000 rpms for your turbo. then just foot to the floor and hold it until you get to your redline (I saw you touched 8500 yeesh, lol). That'll give you a nice long pull and tons of data you can use (provided you actually have what's called traction).


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

For that Power enrichment map, DO NOT change the load axis. Whoever made the definition got the address for the axis wrong. If you change axis values, you could end up changing values for something else totally unrelated.

First, find out what the axis is suppose to display only change target AF value, NOT load axis value until they correct the axis reference address.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

elRey said:


> For that Power enrichment map, DO NOT change the load axis. Whoever made the definition got the address for the axis wrong. If you change axis values, you could end up changing values for something else totally unrelated.
> 
> First, find out what the axis is suppose to display only change target AF value, NOT load axis value until they correct the axis reference address.


There is no load axis on the power enrichment map, what are you talking about?

If your talking about the Y axis, then it's RPM, don't change this it is a shared axis

If your talking about the X axis, then it's Torque demand, which you can change freely I do it all the time and have changed this axis literally hundreds of times


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## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> *You can overwrite other flashes, but not chips*..
> 
> That said; your file is on the money as you describe it. You can go into the "easy tune" thingy, and tweak it for more psi.
> 
> When I had it I made more tweaks in maestro, and had a nasty little file from that 4 bar stage2 base map.:thumbup:


so what do i do if i am allready chiped?


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

talx said:


> so what do i do if i am allready chiped?


If you are indeed "chipped" and not "flashed"; you would be ahead of the game to sell/trade your ecu to someone with a stock ecu + cash on top. You'd come out ahead that way:thumbup:


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Cryser said:


> There is no load axis on the power enrichment map, what are you talking about?
> 
> If your talking about the Y axis, then it's RPM, don't change this it is a shared axis
> 
> If your talking about the X axis, then it's Torque demand, which you can change freely I do it all the time and have changed this axis literally hundreds of times


The map pictured a few posted earlier in the thread has an incorrectly mapped relative requested torque axis. Yours maybe fine, but if it looks like the one posted, it's mapped incorrectly and editing the axis values could modify values NOT related to the axis of that map.

I know some say it comes like that from the factory (weird axis values), but I pretty sure it a matter of an incorrect axis address.


Also, 'Requested' Torque is not the same as 'Actual' Torque.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

spartiati said:


> Are you in 3rd gear? Your spinning the tires so it's hard to use any of that data to dial things in. I will note your o2 corrections are too high basically in and out of boost ....
> 
> I would try using 4th and starting off low like 2500 3000 rpms for your turbo. then just foot to the floor and hold it until you get to your redline (I saw you touched 8500 yeesh, lol). That'll give you a nice long pull and tons of data you can use (provided you actually have what's called traction).


Most of those pulls are multi gear and spinning is almost non existent. Only time I spun was from a 20 roll right after the 1-2 shift. 

How do you see tire spin?

Could an exhaust leak at the exh Mani to turbo be the culprit to the o2 corrections?

Thanks


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

elRey said:


> The map pictured a few posted earlier in the thread has an incorrectly mapped relative requested torque axis. Yours maybe fine, but if it looks like the one posted, it's mapped incorrectly and editing the axis values could modify values NOT related to the axis of that map.
> 
> I know some say it comes like that from the factory (weird axis values), but I pretty sure it a matter of an incorrect axis address.


Your wrong, simple as that =)

First and foremost Load and Torque demand are to vary different things, and while the ARE associated and tend to follow each other in terms of how they effect each other, that relationship has nothing to do with this map and it's X axis. So for the purpose of this map separate them as 2 separate variables and toss load out the window for this discussion, load does not effect the power enrichment map, it's all based on the torque model produced by the car.

The X axis on the power enrichment map is not a shared axis, nor is it that way in a stock file because of a misdefined axis. It's like that straight from the bosch ecu. That is simply how they decided to disable the map from the factory, there is a reason they do this.

We in this community place power production as the highest priority when we tune our cars, VW didn't they care more about emissions.

For emission purposes you want to run as close to 14.7 as possible. SO there is no reason for a stock car to use this map, they don't want to target anything but 14.7. Obviously at 12PSI 14.7 AFR is gonna grenade a motor before long, because of the heat generated. This heat can be measure by the EGT calculations of the ecu. The EGT value for this is CALCULATED even if you have an EGT sensor stock. Now since cars have to last 100,000miles and they know people like us exist who run our cars harder then normal they needed a way to cool the charge so they didn't have 1.8T blowing up everywhere. That's why the EGT threshold exist and the "full load lambda" or component protection maps exist. This style of tuning allowed bosch to run 14.7 AFR for best emissions for as long as possible before the engine was basically about to meltdown from the heat, at the very last second they dump fuel and cool the charge down to prevent a meltdown.

Now when people first started to chip these cars, the easiest way to get more fuel was to just modify this model to a more "performance" friendly tune. That doesn't mean it's wrong or right, it's just one way to do it. It simplifies things and has been working perfectly fine for the 10 or so years that people have been running name brand stage 2 chips before maestro 7 and my over analytical ass came along and got hell bent on using the power enrichment map =)

Again I do this not because I wanna prove I am the best tuner ever, and to say people like eurodyne and uni are idiots for not using the PE map. I do it because I have gained a lot of information from this community and this is simply my way of giving back.

I simply understand the the EGT threshold is no longer accurate why we change the size and shape of our exhausts, there for in order to use this style of tuning with a larger exhaust you basically set the egt threshold so it's always on and control AFR like this. I just don't like that style of doing things, but it does work well for a lot of people. This is why the only modification that separates a stage 1 and stage 2 tune is whether you have an downpipe and exhaust.

Trust me, even if you I sufficiently explain it well enough over the internet I have tested this and check data on this for many hours. The X axis value is defined correctly, it is just how bosch decided to deactivate the map is all.

Trust me I fully understand the difference between actual and requested torque =)


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Cryser said:


> Trust me I fully understand the difference between actual and requested torque =)


And you're saying LAMFA is is based on Actual?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

elRey said:


> And you're saying LAMFA is is based on Actual?


As I said before, it is actual torque limited by demand.

The axis looks up actual torque for the X axis but it will never pass what your demanding in relation to 100% torque.


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Cryser said:


> This is why the only modification that separates a stage 1 and stage 2 tune is whether you have an downpipe and exhaust


and a 4bar fpr


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

rodgertherabit said:


> and a 4bar fpr



not all stage 2 files require a 4 bar though =)


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Cryser said:


> There is no load axis on the power enrichment map, what are you talking about?
> 
> If your talking about the Y axis, then it's RPM, don't change this it is a shared axis
> 
> If your talking about the X axis, then it's Torque demand, which you can change freely I do it all the time and have changed this axis literally hundreds of times


Any insight on what axis rpms are shared with?


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Cryser said:


> not all stage 2 files require a 4 bar though =)


really? Chris/Eurodyne support both told me it was REQUIRED for stage 2....:screwy:

EDIT: How can I tell if I really need it or not? My fuel trims seem to be normal..


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

rodgertherabit said:


> really? Chris/Eurodyne support both told me it was REQUIRED for stage 2....:screwy:
> 
> EDIT: How can I tell if I really need it or not? My fuel trims seem to be normal..


You need whatever you're tuned for. Take your stock injector size and figure out how much they flow at 3 bar and then at 4 bar. Plug those figures into the injector constant wizard and see which result yields what the injector constant was before. That's what you should be running or alternatively if you're tuned for 3bar you could change the constant to 4 bar if that's what you want.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Cryser said:


> As I said before, it is actual torque limited by demand.
> 
> The axis looks up actual torque for the X axis but it will never pass what your demanding in relation to 100% torque.





Cryser said:


> Your wrong, simple as that =)


Requested Torque axis input is straight from KPED. No calculated torque, no actual torque. It's straight from driver's input. 'Requested'


I may be wrong about axis being addressed wrong, but not about input for map. So, on big turbo setups WOT @ low RPM Requested Torque will be 100% but Actual Torque will be far less until turbo has spooled.

With a stock or near stock sized turbo, Actual and Requested will be very very close throughout RPM range because of small turbo response. So, even with hours and hours of testing, if your Actual looks just like your Requested, one might think LAMFA was based on Actual.


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> You need whatever you're tuned for. Take your stock injector size and figure out how much they flow at 3 bar and then at 4 bar. Plug those figures into the injector constant wizard and see which result yields what the injector constant was before. That's what you should be running or alternatively if you're tuned for 3bar you could change the constant to 4 bar if that's what you want.


This I know, I asked Chris and thats what he told me...I bought and now using a 4bar as per Chris/Eurodyne's instructions... I was surprised when they told me since most stage 2 tunes (besides revo) uses a oem 3bar fpr and I never heard any hint of needing it for Eurodyne. Im not saying they are wrong, im just confused why i was told "the Tune was designed for a 4bar fpr for a reason"

I much rather would have saved the $50 if I didnt need to spend it.:thumbup:

Anyone else with STG 2 Running a 4bar?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

rodgertherabit said:


> This I know, I asked Chris and thats what he told me...I bought and now using a 4bar as per Chris/Eurodyne's instructions... I was surprised when they told me since most stage 2 tunes (besides revo) uses a oem 3bar fpr and I never heard any hint of needing it for Eurodyne. Im not saying they are wrong, im just confused why i was told "the Tune was designed for a 4bar fpr for a reason"
> 
> I much rather would have saved the $50 if I didnt need to spend it.:thumbup:
> 
> Anyone else with STG 2 Running a 4bar?


I ran a 4 bar and rescaling injectors back to 3 bar is easy.. It just turns your 318s into 372s or w/e


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

didy ou benefit from switching back to a 3bar?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

rodgertherabit said:


> didy ou benefit from switching back to a 3bar?


On stock injectors I don't see a benefit but once you go to 630s or more 3 bar is what I'd run. And all 4 bar does is raise fuel pressure at the rail so your injectors are able to push for fuel through.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

codergfx said:


> Any insight on what axis rpms are shared with?


KFLAMKR
KFLAFWL
DLAMOB
RLLAMMN
LAMRLMN

the ones I found

*EDIT: I was wrong. LAMFA does not share RPM axis with these maps.*


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

elRey said:


> KFLAMKR
> KFLAFWL
> DLAMOB
> RLLAMMN
> ...


So changing it would **** up the other maps? Hmm


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## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

any big power guys running the Maestro 7 ?
I have seen some in the 400-500 hp range, but what about up to 600 ore 700 hp? any one mange to get it tuned up to that range?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

people need to stop assuming and putting words into my mouth. 

I said not all stage 2 files require a 4 bar, I never stated not all EURODYNE stage 2 files require it.

Eurodyne stage 2 requires a 4 bar, run a 4 bar. I run a 4 bar, you would see a loss in power and could damage your engine if you ran a 3 bar on the 4 bar program.

elray

I use to think that to, but through testing I have proved it wrong.

IF LAMFA's axis value is purely KPED output(the output from the acceleration pedal map) why is it that when I floor it I don't immediately dump to 100% column on the LAMFA table but instead? Why is it that are partial throttle when I begin to go up a hill and the car beings to produce more torque yet i keep the pedal at the same value there for KPED value is the same the target AFR changes in accordance with my theory?

I'm sorry I have tested the whole KPED being the only value to affect the axis and it just do not hold up to the tests. LAMFA doesn't instantly change the target lambda the moment the request is made. IF anything I would be more inclined to believe the axis has it's roots in optimal torque rather then KPED. Now if I'm wrong in thinking KPED is solely the unaffected output of the acceleration pedal map then that might be why we are thinking differently but I'm pretty sure that is not the case.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

codergfx said:


> So changing it would **** up the other maps? Hmm



my car would not idle correctly because I tried to change the rpm axis in power enrichment alone, fix the axis, care idled perfectly.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Cryser said:


> my car would not idle correctly because I tried to change the rpm axis in power enrichment alone, fix the axis, care idled perfectly.


Ahh okay gotcha


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

talx said:


> any big power guys running the Maestro 7 ?
> I have seen some in the 400-500 hp range, but what about up to 600 ore 700 hp? any one mange to get it tuned up to that range?


Read this Marc at Vapmotorsports is making huge power on Eurodyne:thumbup:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5326822-new-owner-at-Vap-motorsports


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Cryser said:


> I use to think that to, but through testing I have proved it wrong.
> 
> IF LAMFA's axis value is purely KPED output(the output from the acceleration pedal map) why is it that when I floor it I don't immediately dump to 100% column on the LAMFA table but instead?*look up TLAFA* Why is it that are partial throttle when I begin to go up a hill and the car beings to produce more torque yet i keep the pedal at the same value there for KPED value is the same the target AFR changes in accordance with my theory?
> 
> I'm sorry I have tested the whole KPED being the only value to affect the axis and it just do not hold up to the tests. LAMFA doesn't instantly change the target lambda the moment the request is made. IF anything I would be more inclined to believe the axis has it's roots in optimal torque rather then KPED. Now if I'm wrong in thinking KPED is solely the unaffected output of the acceleration pedal map then that might be why we are thinking differently but I'm pretty sure that is not the case.


OK, seems we need a log shootout 


I just did some digging. It's not that the axiss address is wrong. It's that it is defined as 16bit (LoHi) vs (HiLo).

So, did you change you axis values?


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Cryser said:


> I said not all stage 2 files require a 4 bar, I never stated not all EURODYNE stage 2 files require it.
> 
> Eurodyne stage 2 requires a 4 bar, run a 4 bar. I run a 4 bar, you would see a loss in power and could damage your engine if you ran a 3 bar on the 4 bar program.


Again, *Im not trying to run a 3bar with my set up*, as I am not running the 4bar...I just wanted what differentiated the stage 2 files to require either a 3 or 4bar :thumbup:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Cryser said:


> my car would not idle correctly because I tried to change the rpm axis in power enrichment alone, fix the axis, care idled perfectly.




Same thing happened to me aswell. 


http://www.mediafire.com/?fey5ktnvkipmqsq

http://www.mediafire.com/?vkiadiddd4bceds

^^^^ for those of you who would like to dig a bit deeper into Me7 these are the english translated documents explaining most of the stock maps. Now can someone connect the maps provided in maestro to the ones listed in the Document. For instance 

ATM 33.50 (Exhaust Gas Temperature Model)
ATR 1.60 (Exhaust Gas Temperature Control)
BGSRM 17.10 (Cylinder Charge Detection, Intake Manifold Model)
FUEDK 21.90 (Cylinder Charge Control [Calculating Target Throttle Angle])
GGHFM 57.60 (MAF Meter System Pulsations)
LAMBTS 2.120 (Lambda for Component Protection)
LAMFAW 7.100 (Driver's Requested Lambda)
LAMKO 9.80 (Lambda Coordination)
LDRLMX 3.100 (Calculation of LDR Maximum Cylinder Charge rlmax)
LDRPID 25.10 (Charge Pressure Regulation PID Control)
LRSHK 9.20 (Continuous Post-Catalyst Lambda Control)
MDBAS 8.30 (Calculation of the Basic Parameters for the Torque Interface)
MDFAW 12.260 (Driver Requested Torque)
MDFUE 8.50 (Setpoint for Air Mass from Load Torque)
MDKOG 14.70 (Torque Coordination for Overall Interventions)
MDZW 1.120 Calculating Torque at the Desired Ignition Angle)
RKTI 11.40 (Calculation of Injection Time ti from Relative Fuel Mass rk)
SLS 88.150 (Secondary Air Control)
ZUE 282.130 (Fundamental Function - Ignition)
ZWGRU 23.110 (Fundamental Ignition Angle)


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

codergfx said:


> So changing it would **** up the other maps? Hmm


*I was wrong. LAMFA does not share RPM axis with these maps.*

Still looking. I haven't found any yet.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Cryser said:


> my car would not idle correctly because I tried to change the rpm axis in power enrichment alone, fix the axis, care idled perfectly.





Budsdubbin said:


> Same thing happened to me aswell.


Did both of you change the Torque axis values when you changes the RPM axis values?

i.e. from the weird/non-linear values to 0-100% linear values?


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

elRey said:


> Did both of you change the Torque axis values when you changes the RPM axis values?
> 
> i.e. from the weird/non-linear values to 0-100% linear values?


I've change them both independently of each other. the rpm axis is the only one that gives a problem when it is changed because it is a shared axis with another map.

you have to change the X axis from the weird values to a 0-100 scale in order to activate and use the LAMFA map.

One of the reasons I began working with the LAMFA map is because I was having an issue where my car would target 14.7 for far too long after the car was in boost and producing enough torque to warranty a richer mixutre. Even lowering my EGT threshold to 100C did nothing to fix this.

now I still had this problem when I started with the LAMFA map I solved this by adjusting the axis value of the column that would begin enriching the mixture. I found that value to be around 37% for my car. If the X axis of LAMFA was based solely on KPED, this value wouldn't matter because once the pedal is floored I'm requesting 100% it should be at the 100% column of my LAMFA map, but it slowly moves across the map using the columns between 0-100 as torque rises. 

I'm sure you read somewhere on another site that KPED is lamfa X-axis, I read that as well. It's just not true.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

buds, the problem with the bocsh documents is there are literally hundreds of variables, models, and maps we don't have nor really need access to through maestro 7. On the maestro forum there is a post that relates most of the available maps on maestro to their correct bosch names.

In reality us as tuners need to take the approach of only effect the maps we really need to effect, instead of trying to completely rewrite the programing of the ecu.

The bosch documents hold a LOT of information that we can use and they are extremely helpful so having them posted up is a great thing and I thank you for it. But in the same regard we have to remember we are limited in what we can change and a lot of it really doesn't need to be touched for a performance tune.

In all honesty the only 2 maps out of all those that you listed that we have access to that I can recognize are LAMFA(w) which is power enrichment and LAMBTS which is labeled full throttle lambda on maestro.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Now I can see the logic behind the whole use of it however on bt I don't have that issue.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Cryser said:


> I'm sure you read somewhere on another site that KPED is lamfa X-axis, I read that as well. It's just not true.


No. I didn't read from a site. I have hours and hours of testing under my belt as well. And what you're saying goes against the documentation and my testing. 

But I can assume the same thing about your view on having to change the axis values. that I'm sure you read somewhere on another site the LAMFA Torque axis is screwed from the factory. 

What ECU are you working with? ME7.5 AWP here. 

I guess we have to table this debate until I have map values and logs to back me up.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Cryser said:


> In all honesty the only 2 maps out of all those that you listed that we have access to ....


And see, some of us aren't limited in this way and can eliminate other maps as variables when testing.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Cryser said:


> If the X axis of LAMFA was based solely on KPED, this value wouldn't matter because once the pedal is floored I'm requesting 100% it should be at the 100% column of my LAMFA map,


Only AFTER 1 or 2 seconds. (stock TLAFA). There is a 1 or 2 second delay before LAMFA is used.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Budsdubbin said:


> ^^^^ for those of you who would like to dig a bit deeper into Me7 these are the english translated documents explaining most of the stock maps. Now can someone connect the maps provided in maestro to the ones listed in the Document. For instance
> 
> ATM 33.50 (Exhaust Gas Temperature Model)
> ATR 1.60 (Exhaust Gas Temperature Control)
> ...



http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=689


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

elRey said:


> Only AFTER 1 or 2 seconds. (stock TLAFA). There is a 1 or 2 second delay before LAMFA is used.


AWP 7.5 here as well

see I don't have a delay with the way I have the table set, the second my foot moves the pedal the AFR change in accordance to LAMFA. I did see that the VVT files have a variable for the delay for LAMFA so i do know that it's there but for whatever reason I don't have that delay, or it's just not showing on my logs. Although I do hold throttle at the point right before the AFR drops below 14.7 for 5 seconds before I do a run. Usually I'm on a "private road" so i do this to stabilize any influence from other maps and variables and I let the AFR acutal and request meet up at 14.7, wait 4-5 seconds, then floor it for my 3rd gear pull. It is possible doing this is what is negating that delay that TLAFA is set for, for whatever reason.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Cryser said:


> ...why is it that when I floor it I *don't immediately *dump to 100% column on the LAMFA table but instead?





Cryser said:


> ...because once the pedal is floored I'm requesting 100% it should be at the 100% column of my LAMFA map, *but it slowly moves* across the map using the columns between 0-100 as torque rises.





Cryser said:


> see *I don't have a delay *with the way I have the table set, the second my foot moves the pedal the AFR change in accordance to LAMFA.



So you do or you don't have a delay? Delay starts when LAMFA != 1 

What I'm getting at is the *Actual* Torque 'slow moving' across LAMFA (i.e. across lower torque columns you have set to 1) you are perceiving is really the 1-2 sec delay before LAMFA is activated. So, from my perspective I see the you sitting in the 100% *Requested* Torque column but twiddling your thumbs until 2s delay is over.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

http://www.zzottel.de/index.php/en/car/fis-control

check that **** out its the sickest thing ive seen for only 200 shipped. im getting one. it lets your cluster screen basically display any value of the car and any vagcom measuring block. bring up fault codes etc. bye bye gauges......even displays values in graph form


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

elRey said:


> http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=689


Yes that thread is informative to a degree but he is unsure of a few maps included. Such as the Optimum torque map and injection correction definitions he is unsure if that is the correct bosch map. I guess I'll have to go into those documents myself and see. Its been a while since I've read through it.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

elRey said:


> So you do or you don't have a delay? Delay starts when LAMFA != 1
> 
> What I'm getting at is the *Actual* Torque 'slow moving' across LAMFA (i.e. across lower torque columns you have set to 1) you are perceiving is really the 1-2 sec delay before LAMFA is activated. So, from my perspective I see the you sitting in the 100% *Requested* Torque column but twiddling your thumbs until 2s delay is over.


I don't have any delay atm, the moment I move the pedal from a standing roll the targeted AFR begins to drop in accordance to my LAMFA map. If I changed my X axis values I could institute a delay, which I'm actually going to be doing once I get my cable back since I basically had to zero out my acceleration fuel table at operating temp in order to get the actual AFR to stop dipping to 11.5 - 11.2 upon tip it.


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## abacorrado (Apr 5, 2005)

*Maestro for tsi*

Does anyone have any experience tuning maestro on the tsi or tfsi motors, specifically the quattro tt from 09 on. does maestro even work for me9 systems?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

so I got the docs from tool, thanks a ton man believe it or not never seen this at all.

I believe the reason we can't change the axis on the Power enrichment(Lamfa) is because it is shared with a map we don't have access to, bosch name DLAMOB. 

This map is for overboost enrichment, and the RPM axis is shared with LAMFA.

El Rey It seems we were both wrong 

this is the definition of MDFAW in which MRFA_W the axis for power enrichment is created

The function calculates the indicated torque requested by the driver dependent on accelerator pedal position and state of cruise control. The torque coordination air flow and the torque coordination injection/ignition get separate torque requests (mifal w and mifa w). Additional important inputs are the minimal necessary indicated torque (depending on engine friction and additional consumers like e.g. the A/C-compressor) and the maximal possible indicated torque (depending on engine speed, boost control and ambient air density).
The pedal characteristic is stored in the map KFPED. From accelerator pedal position and engine speed, a factor (relative torque request) in the range of 0 to 2 is generated (mrped w). 0 is corresponding to the request of the minimal indicated torque, while 1
is corresponding to the request of the maximal indicated torque. Values between 0 and 1 lead to a linear interpolation. 
The setting signal of the cruise control is also a relative torque request (mrfgr w) that becomes important if it is higher than mrped w. In this case, B fgr is set.

It seems once you press the pedal the request while it is an instant change, the ECU determines how much torque you were using, versus the pedal position and the torque you are demanding.

Then it interpolates up to the demand, so I was wrong in assume it was a combination of actual and requested torque. But at the same time the axis, isn't a direct relation of the KPED value, it does gradually rise to that value so the car does in fact move across the map when a change in pedal position is detected =)

Something I found interesting though that boost control somehow has an effect maximum torque, that is something I really want to look into =)

Also how does one go about asking for a map to be unlocked for them in maestro? I would love access to DLAMOB if not only to be able to change the rpm axis of LAMFA =)


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

That's be badass


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Cryser said:


> Something I found interesting though that boost control somehow has an effect maximum torque, that is something I really want to look into =)


I'd been meaning to mention that. Thats actually another reason I want to do load fueling.
A) Because I have no N75
B) Because I'm running a dual stage boost controller that is wired to a funk button in the dash. 18psi normally & 25psi when its needed to pull away from someone.
^^I have no understanding how running varying boost pressures affects the torque system. How does it know what 100% torque is if I'm switching pressures. SO many variables (n75, no maf lamfa/FLL) I havent even begun to look at it till I figure out 100% what I'm doing with my setup. I'm planning on throwing a MAF on and am considering reinstalling the n75. The n75 will give me something to tinker with once I get my full throttle dialed in. I like tinkering.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I'd been meaning to mention that. Thats actually another reason I want to do load fueling.
> A) Because I have no N75
> B) Because I'm running a dual stage boost controller that is wired to a funk button in the dash. 18psi normally & 25psi when its needed to pull away from someone.
> ^^I have no understanding how running varying boost pressures affects the torque system. How does it know what 100% torque is if I'm switching pressures. SO many variables (n75, no maf lamfa/FLL) I havent even begun to look at it till I figure out 100% what I'm doing with my setup. I'm planning on throwing a MAF on and am considering reinstalling the n75. The n75 will give me something to tinker with once I get my full throttle dialed in. I like tinkering.


See I'm running a similar setup on y car except with a greddy boost controller. This is where full load lamba map helps out, I tested this a while ago and based on what load you run and what fuel you request you are able to drive under varying boost levels.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I'd been meaning to mention that. Thats actually another reason I want to do load fueling.
> A) Because I have no N75
> B) Because I'm running a dual stage boost controller that is wired to a funk button in the dash. 18psi normally & 25psi when its needed to pull away from someone.
> ^^I have no understanding how running varying boost pressures affects the torque system. How does it know what 100% torque is if I'm switching pressures. SO many variables (n75, no maf lamfa/FLL) I havent even begun to look at it till I figure out 100% what I'm doing with my setup. I'm planning on throwing a MAF on and am considering reinstalling the n75. The n75 will give me something to tinker with once I get my full throttle dialed in. I like tinkering.



That's why i switched my plan from an Apexi AVCR to running the boost manager from Eurodyne with the N75 replacement that 034 motorsports sells. It's an interrupt style valve instead of a bleed, so it can hold more PSI at the top end. I might get the valve sooner and try it out on he stock turbo if I find some extra cash.


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

Just got my hemi throttle body today and ill have my intake manifold in a week or 2... Will I have to source a tune for the 80mm tb? Or can I call Chris and have him send me one? Codergfx has been helping me with my tune and everything else but I wasn't sure about this?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Cryser said:


> so I got the docs from tool, thanks a ton man believe it or not never seen this at all.
> ..
> 
> El Rey It seems we were both wrong


Tell me exactly where I was wrong again.

Take Cruise control out of the equation (unless you have a habit of setting cruise control @ WOT).


pedal position & RPM -> KFPED = *mrfa_w* & RPM -> LAMFA

mrfa_w is straight out of KFPED.

And DLAMOB does *not* share RPM axis with LAMFA.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

elRey said:


> Tell me exactly where I was wrong again.
> 
> Take Cruise control out of the equation (unless you have a habit of setting cruise control @ WOT).
> 
> ...


Reading over the doc it makes sense

And does that mean rpm axis of lamfaw isn't a shared axis with other maps? Since it just uses nmot variable and nmot is just rpms?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

elRey said:


> mrfa_w is straight out of KFPED.


Mrfa_w comes out of MDFAW KFPED goes into MDFAW

KFPED is the basis of mrfa_w but it isn't a direct relation, if it was why would they make another variable for it?

Are you sure they don't share axis, they both request nmot for the rpm access.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Cryser said:


> Mrfa_w comes out of MDFAW KFPED goes into MDFAW
> 
> KFPED is the basis of mrfa_w but it isn't a direct relation, if it was why would they make another variable for it?


What? MDFAW is a function. KFPED is a 2 axis lookup table (map) inside the function MDFAW. The variables wped_w (pedal position) and nmot (RPM) are inputs to the func MDFAW. Inside func MDFAW the input variables wped_w and nmot are compared to 2axis lookup table, KFPED output of which is mrped_w. Yes there are some additives to mrped_w before it becomes mrfa_w *BUT* if you had access to those additive maps you'd see either they are for conditions out side of WOT or heavy load (e.g. idle, cruise, warmup, etc) OR they are zero'ed from factory. End result for our intents and purposes is mrped_w = mrfa_w. Thus mrfa_w is straight out of KFPED. mrfa_w is an (not the only) output of the MDFAW.



Cryser said:


> Are you sure they don't share axis, they both request nmot for the rpm access.


I'm sure. Just because two lookup tables use the same input (nmot/RPM) does mean they use the same axis lookup. One map may have a 6 point axis 0-200-600-1000-3000-5000 
while the other has a 11 point axis 0-200-400-600-800-1000-1200-1400-2000-4000-6000

In this case LAMFA and DLAMOB have different size RPM axis. I haven't found another map that shares it's RPM axis with LAMFA yet and I don't think I will. Usually maps that share an axis are right next to each other in the hex OR the axis is defined in a separate part of the hex in a sort of 'common axis' area. Neither fit the case of LAMFA and it's axis.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

anyone here running an n75 on a turbo gt30 or bigger. i have a 3082 and i love what ive gained part throttle on the n75 but unless i let boost come on slow itll spike......if i hold the throttle wide open itll usually spike so hard it cuts out on me usually hitting 30psi but if i roll on it gently itll hold the 21psi i have set. should i run my ebc in parrallel to stop the spikes? or is it something boost pid or duty cycle can fix


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

tojr1088 said:


> anyone here running an n75 on a turbo gt30 or bigger. i have a 3082 and i love what ive gained part throttle on the n75 but unless i let boost come on slow itll spike......if i hold the throttle wide open itll usually spike so hard it cuts out on me usually hitting 30psi but if i roll on it gently itll hold the 21psi i have set. should i run my ebc in parrallel to stop the spikes? or is it something boost pid or duty cycle can fix


PID tuning should help with that. Or if you're running off the duty map only, adjusting that will more than likely negate your part throttle gains.

What did you 'gain' in part throttle over the ebc?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

elRey said:


> PID tuning should help with that. Or if you're running off the duty map only, adjusting that will more than likely negate your part throttle gains.
> 
> What did you 'gain' in part throttle over the ebc?


its kinda hard to explain. the ebc had a more off/on boost feel. it would also spike pretty bad and i couldnt figure it out. the car came on alot smoother with the n75 and surging was reduced. just spikes worse. i almost feel like the n75 is better to cause its trying to aacheive boost as the ecu expects it (correct me if im wrong) and also with the n75 the computer can reduce boost in knock situations.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Anyone have a 80mm file for SEM Intake + AEB on stock cams? Or can post a pic of thier alpha n table?


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## MikeKondilis (Mar 3, 2007)

Chris Tapp sent me a base file, plugged it in loaded it, the car idles fine now from what it did without a tune, but when it comes to driving it shutters a little bit is this normal? Probably need a tune

3071R
Mafless 
630cc
70mm Big Port SEM


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

MikeKondilis said:


> Chris Tapp sent me a base file, plugged it in loaded it, the car idles fine now from what it did without a tune, but when it comes to driving it shutters a little bit is this normal? Probably need a tune
> 
> 3071R
> Mafless
> ...


Is this base file supposed to work with your 70mm TB? I thought the base file Tapp sent me was supposed to work with my 70mm (cause I asked for it through Issam from INA) by I finally found it was not a 70mm TB file...


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Forgive me if it's been covered but this thread is massive.

Anyone know how to scale a custom MAF housing? I'm running a TT NB MAF in a 4" housing.

The V8 S4 housing is a 4" housing or is it actually more like 3.75 ?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

DougLoBue said:


> Forgive me if it's been covered but this thread is massive.
> 
> Anyone know how to scale a custom MAF housing? I'm running a TT NB MAF in a 4" housing.
> 
> The V8 S4 housing is a 4" housing or is it actually more like 3.75 ?


http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=995


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> Forgive me if it's been covered but this thread is massive.
> 
> Anyone know how to scale a custom MAF housing? I'm running a TT NB MAF in a 4" housing.
> 
> The V8 S4 housing is a 4" housing or is it actually more like 3.75 ?


I still recommend you go with one of the MAFs in the Eurodyne library. Do it at least temporarily, so you can dial in the injectors and A/F maps. Once you have them "baselined" you can swap in a larger MAF -- and have only one element to re-calibrate for.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Thanks Steve- I actually used that calculator and it's WAY off or I'm way dumb right now :banghead:

Hey Doug- I actually have it running perfectly as far as A/F & injector timing. I'm now running E85 and cranking the boost up (30 psi) results in major 02 corrections and lean condtions (.90-.95 lambda). I'm assuming that the increased airflow isn't compensated for. I'm going to try to find some info out on the Hitachi 3.5 B5 S4 setup and possibly run that.

Anyone happen to know the ID/OD of that housing?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

DougLoBue said:


> Thanks Steve- I actually used that calculator and it's WAY off or I'm way dumb right now :banghead:
> 
> Hey Doug- I actually have it running perfectly as far as A/F & injector timing. I'm now running E85 and cranking the boost up (30 psi) results in major 02 corrections and lean condtions (.90-.95 lambda). I'm assuming that the increased airflow isn't compensated for. I'm going to try to find some info out on the Hitachi 3.5 B5 S4 setup and possibly run that.
> 
> Anyone happen to know the ID/OD of that housing?


Doug first try tuning the e85 at previous boost levels. Once fuel is matched there the computer should be able to interpolate for the higher loads created by the higher boost. Once that's dialed in crank up the boost. Throwing another variable into the mix may only complicate things further.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Doug first try tuning the e85 at previous boost levels. Once fuel is matched there the computer should be able to interpolate for the higher loads created by the higher boost. Once that's dialed in crank up the boost. Throwing another variable into the mix may only complicate things further.


If you have a moment take a look at these graphs. What I'm seeing is +10 correction at 20psi, +20 correction at 30psi. My full load lambda chart is tuned for .85 and 20psi hits that perfectly, 30 doesn't.

Blue is 20psi. Red is 30psi.

Lambda: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/godsphantasma/e85-actual-lambda.png

02 Correction: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/godsphantasma/e85-02correction.png

If it's not a MAF I need what tables should I be looking at to add fuel under boost? Out of boost you can see there are very low corrections.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

DougLoBue said:


> If you have a moment take a look at these graphs. What I'm seeing is +10 correction at 20psi, +20 correction at 30psi. My full load lambda chart is tuned for .85 and 20psi hits that perfectly, 30 doesn't.
> 
> Blue is 20psi. Red is 30psi.
> 
> ...



possibly running out of injector or fuel pump. What does your injector duty look like?

There should be a map for fuel adjustment by manifold pressure. returnless cars (AMB) use it.

FRLFSDP


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

At 30psi my injector duty cycle is:

5000 rpm = 51.67% IDC
5500 rpm = 67.83 %
6100 rpm = 75.23 %
6537 rpm = 80.60 %
6604 rpm = 70.44 %


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I would start by increasing your optimal torque in the area's where the massive corrects start to show up, looking at your graph that seems to be around 4K. I'm gonna go ahead and guess that is where your seeing spool up/max boost for the first time?

If by chance your optimal torque is set at 99.9999% at any of those area's you will actually need to raise the Axis value.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Cryser said:


> I would start by increasing your optimal torque in the area's where the massive corrects start to show up, looking at your graph that seems to be around 4K. I'm gonna go ahead and guess that is where your seeing spool up/max boost for the first time?
> 
> If by chance your optimal torque is set at 99.9999% at any of those area's you will actually need to raise the Axis value.


Soo Chryser I'm having a similar issue with mAin fuel correction map set to 1.001 I get massive corrections from 4k+, means my optimum torque maps off? And with about 25% more fuel past 4k corrections Are well within 0. 

Ps: my part throttle is good


----------



## AzDubbin1.8t (Apr 20, 2007)

How do I go about this? I did he evap delete and took out my purge valve. Can I stick a resistor in the purge valve plug?


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

yup. resistor that badboy


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## AzDubbin1.8t (Apr 20, 2007)

spartiati said:


> yup. resistor that badboy


Perfect thank you


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Ok so I've been doing alot of reading... So far this is what I gather for tuning VE.

The Accelerator Pedal translates pedal position vs RPM to driver requested torque. 100% throttle = maximum VE at that given RPM.

The Target filling map uses pedal position (driver requested torque) vs RPM and translates it to the requested torque value. 

The optimum torque map seems to be based on the engines ability to reach that requested torque??? Lets say maximum VE is calibrated correctly.... @ 5500rpm your requesting 100% load. According to the VE map your ECU is calibrated for 219 at that rpm. But your only able to hit 200 based on your actual calculated engine. Your optimum torque map shouldn't read 100% in that individual cell correct? it should be more like 90%.













Am I correct?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Cryser said:


> I would start by increasing your optimal torque in the area's where the massive corrects start to show up, looking at your graph that seems to be around 4K. I'm gonna go ahead and guess that is where your seeing spool up/max boost for the first time?
> 
> If by chance your optimal torque is set at 99.9999% at any of those area's you will actually need to raise the Axis value.


Correct I'm seeing full boost around 4,500 rpm.

Last night I watched the map tracer from a 3rd gear pull and noticed the cells in the Optimum Torque map that it hit and also the Alpha N map. I am not sure how to adjust the Optimum Torque map though because it seems like it's measured in cylinder filling numbers and smoothly makes it's way from 0 - 100.

Would it be just as effective if I increased my Alpha N values or is that just a bandaid? The entire bottom row is what I hit from the third gear pull.

Max engine load I see from this run is 189. Here are the values I'm hitting. The correction is at the bottom row of Alpha N and 175 column of Opt. Torque.


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

I


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

elRey said:


> So you do or you don't have a delay? Delay starts when LAMFA != 1
> 
> What I'm getting at is the *Actual* Torque 'slow moving' across LAMFA (i.e. across lower torque columns you have set to 1) you are perceiving is really the 1-2 sec delay before LAMFA is activated. So, from my perspective I see the you sitting in the 100% *Requested* Torque column but twiddling your thumbs until 2s delay is over.


Not sure why this wasn't mentioned but we have had control of power enrichment delay from day 1. In my old old original file it was set to 2 seconds. On the newer files its set to .1 .


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

codergfx said:


> Soo Chryser I'm having a similar issue with mAin fuel correction map set to 1.001 I get massive corrections from 4k+, means my optimum torque maps off? And with about 25% more fuel past 4k corrections Are well within 0.
> 
> Ps: my part throttle is good






DougLoBue said:


> Correct I'm seeing full boost around 4,500 rpm.
> 
> Last night I watched the map tracer from a 3rd gear pull and noticed the cells in the Optimum Torque map that it hit and also the Alpha N map. I am not sure how to adjust the Optimum Torque map though because it seems like it's measured in cylinder filling numbers and smoothly makes it's way from 0 - 100.
> 
> ...


No, unless you modified your intake manifold or throttle body you should not have to adjust ALPHA-N much if at all. ALPHA-N is used for Part-throttle MAFLESS calculations.


I'm very confused perhaps someone can explain. I've said this probably 3x in this thread and no one has ever commented on it. I thought Optimum Engine Torque was for part throttle? When the ECM is targeting 14.7? My interpetation of the Maestro Map Description (values for opt. spark and lambda=1)and Bosch doc indicated to me this was only for part throttle when ECM is 14.7. So why is every talking about using this map for full throttle corrections or am I off base here?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> No, unless you modified your intake manifold or throttle body you should not have to adjust ALPHA-N much if at all. ALPHA-N is used for Part-throttle MAFLESS calculations.
> 
> 
> I'm very confused perhaps someone can explain. I've said this probably 3x in this thread and no one has ever commented on it. I thought Optimum Engine Torque was for part throttle? When the ECM is targeting 14.7? My interpetation of the Maestro Map Description (values for opt. spark and lambda=1)and Bosch doc indicated to me this was only for part throttle when ECM is 14.7. So why is every talking about using this map for full throttle corrections or am I off base here?


Correct Alpha-N is for Mafless files and if your ECU ever notices a problem with the MAF readings it will default to this map(You have a bad maf your car runs like crap then you disconnect it.... hey look your car runs better). 


As for the Optimum Torque map, it seems to me that both Optimum Torque and Target filling maps are used for VE calibration. Maximum VE will ressemble your engines torque curve. If this is the case then your VE related maps will have an effect on both part throttle and WOT conditions. It is important to calibrate your VE maps to the best of your ability first (after your injector constant and BVC are dialed in of course). After you get VE close and you start dialing in your other maps, eventuallyyou should have to raise your maximum VE map as you go because as you dial in your tune volumetric efficiency will go up. 

Now can Cryser or someone lemme know what they think of my post up there regarding Optimal torque map it would be helpful to me...


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

First and foremost, to EL ray Going back over the conversations we had I was in fact wrong and you were right. The misunderstanding on my end was assuming that just because the accel pedal map targets a number it doesn't instantly go to that target number it raises up to that number. That why you were saying my actual and request torque on a small frame turbo mirrored each other. So the X axis of Power enrichment is solely based on the KPED variable that is defined in the acceleration pedal map.

Secondly there is nothing in the ECU that "only" works at part throttle vs full throttle. Remeber the "Full load lambda map" is in fact "switched on" and takes over lambda control form the power enrichment map only once the EGT threshold is passed, it has nothing to do with throttle position. THe opt torque map is a back check map for the ecu it needs to be dialed in for all situations based on your your MAF sensor reading. As far as I can tell Max VE only effects to limit your Requested Load. If you wanted to you can really set it to a flat line of 500, your car is never going to reach that but if your opt torque map doesn't resemble you trying to reach 500 g/s then it's just serves as a way to protect from overboost. 

The Opt torque map is basically where your telling the car where it should be power wise. The car takes this information, checks it against what torque it is actually making and then adjusts 02 correction(and ultimately this turns in to fuel trims) and timing in order to reach this number. If your making MORE torque then what the map says the car will give a negative 02 correction, the opposite is true for if your making less torque. I have found it's best to tune for -1 to -2% 02 correction as that gives the best driving feel.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

when i use histogram i get 0's thats it whats the deal? i tried searching


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

WiKKiDTT said:


> when i use histogram i get 0's thats it whats the deal? i tried searching


What map on what file are you tracing?


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Pump gas Timing

it's on all my maps i try to use it on


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

WiKKiDTT said:


> when i use histogram i get 0's thats it whats the deal? i tried searching


I get something similar... Just Blank Cells...:screwy:


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

The histogram will only make adjustments to "correction" tables. Main fuel correction, injector correction, flowmeter correction. 

You can trace any table though.


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Those are the tables I tried using the Trace/histogram function with blank cells as a result..


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Someone please explain what the "time delay below switch to power enrichment" means. 

Value of .1?

My old 630 file had a map "time delay before switching to closed loop after hot restart"?

Value of 25.5

I'm trying anything to figure out why my car loses o2 corrections after a full throttle run with the vvt file. I've tried a new o2 sensor and that was not the issue. Also if I flash the old non vvt file it won't lose o2 corrections ever. Once they are lost they will not recover unless I cycle the ignition.


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

*wanting to take the Maestro plunge this next week>>*

and want to get the most out of it. Car I will be installing it on is a 2001 Audi TT 225Q with the AMU engine. 

Current mods all include:

-APR93 tune tweaked with Lemmi for WMI (still stock narrowband ECU)
-Stage 3 Snow Performance Water/Methanol Injection (dual nozzle pre/post TB)
-K04 running at 24psi with spikes to 27 
-FMIC
-Full exhaust (42DD 3" DP, high flow cat, Borla catback
-Modshack VTDA, BAMM, Forge silicone TIP
-Forge Wastegate
-Innovate LC-1 wideband for fine tuning of AFR's with the WMI
-EGT gauge, Fuel pressure, oil pressure, boost and EFU4U

and I won't go on to list all the other things suspension wise, etc. 

Anyways, in looking down the road towards a motor build, stroker, etc. I'd like to pull the most out of my current setup. Get away from the box tune and have the flexibility to tune on my own with a new basefile, etc. for whatever I choose down the road. Currently acquiring parts to build a stroker...but as I said...its money and time at the moment. I'll be doing that slowly. The motor is in great shape currently, 96k and going strong ...so want to see what it all could really nicely do. Then...add to down the road. 

Enter Maestro. Was kicking this around all last year and really finally want to take the plunge now. Came into a bit of extra $$ and think I would like to go this route first as it makes the most sense. Since I don't have my plans firmed up for what turbo I'd want to run in a build here in the future, etc. Tuning to max and fine tune the current setup to me is the best option. 

My question... using the AMU ECU I'd lose a few of the features (not huge ones it looks like) that Maestro has to offer. Also, it'll still be narrowband. However, with the LC-1 installed I still have wideband logging capabilties and in many ways...a more accurate sensor vs. the stock wideband sensor in the end (me thinks). The wideband aspect I see as the biggest "draw back" to using the AMU ECU on the car. 

The other little things I'd be missing are say...two-step launch control, and the no lift shift. Currently anyways...not sure if these will be allowed on the AMU ECU in the future or not?

So, am I foolish to buy Maestro for use on the AMU ecu? Or...?

I could convert the car to a AWP or similar BAM ECU quite easily and provide the wideband signal to the "new" wideband ECU through the LC-1's analog (current emulating narrowband but can also be switched over to the wideband signal). for basically the cost of the ECU (don't need to do the full harness...would probably go the route of adding the ECU pins needed, etc.). 

Also, I would need t disable the IMMO on the "new" ECU if I swapped it in to replace the AMU one...can that be done right away on maestros first connect to the car? 

Probably a bit of a crazy first post...but I'd really like to get going on this. I just want to know if the impacts are that "huge" on using the AMU ECU vs. the others out there especially considering the fact that I do have the standalone wideband in the lc-1 to work with. 

any help would be great! 
Joe


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

@Joe.. Thats one hell of a cool story bro:thumbup::thumbup: 

Here's a wideband conversion kit for your car.

http://www.raceline-ws.com/rlwa_18_adapter

Simply order maestro, and request an immob defeat. If your in the trial state area; I highly recommend www.pagparts.com


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

Yep....race line adaptor is the one I was going to use instead of swapping entire harness.

So...forget getting the Maestro on the AMU Ecu...find a wideband one and then convert and buy? 

Joe


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

The race line harness is the sh!t. very simple ,High Quality and just works. i have a 2001 TT 225Q "AMU" that i swapped to a AWP using there kit. Harness And Ecu $300 Shipped And i got it in 3-4 days


it also has a resistor built into the harness for VVT as amu doesn't have.


Highly Recommended! Do Not tune that Narrowband 512k Ecu!

Also you could sell your Ecu For the cost of the swap.


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

This is true....AWP ECU it is then....just didn't want any major issues...
The Raceline harness is indeed very nice! Looking forward to all of this..

Joe


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> This is true....AWP ECU it is then....just didn't want any major issues...
> The Raceline harness is indeed very nice! Looking forward to all of this..
> 
> Joe


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## akisman1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Hi there,

I have a Skoda Superb with a AWT engine, does anyone knows if the eurodyne maestro 7 is compatible?


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

akisman1 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I have a Skoda Superb with a AWT engine, does anyone knows if the eurodyne maestro 7 is compatible?


Id contact Bill @ Badger5 in the UK, or just go right to Chris Tapp @ eurodyne. He usually accommodates the euro engine codes:thumbup:


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## akisman1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Thanks for answering, i already sent an e-mail at tapp 10 days ago but no answer.. Will try the other one


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

akisman1 said:


> Thanks for answering, i already sent an e-mail at tapp 10 days ago but no answer.. Will try the other one


Its a small operation; have patience :beer:


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## akisman1 (Mar 11, 2012)

Thanks for the tip


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

spartiati said:


> Someone please explain what the "time delay below switch to power enrichment" means.
> 
> Value of .1?
> 
> ...


i tried the VVT file with my car and it does the same thing.. full throttle just dumps fuel :thumbdown:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

dubbin_boho said:


> i tried the VVT file with my car and it does the same thing.. full throttle just dumps fuel :thumbdown:


what do you mean dumps fuel? Runs rich or that you lose o2 corrections?

What year is your car. possible ecu part number? At first I thought this may have been my personal issue but if I can give Chris more info maybe he can track down the issue.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

spartiati said:


> what do you mean dumps fuel? Runs rich or that you lose o2 corrections?
> 
> What year is your car. possible ecu part number? At first I thought this may have been my personal issue but if I can give Chris more info maybe he can track down the issue.


i'm having problems with my 02 sensor right now i can't get it to work correctly.. i found some slices in the wiring under the car so i spliced in some new wiring to fix that and i also put in a new 02 sensor but it's still not working right.. so i'm not too sure what to do about this..

running the normal file it runs fine, but running the VVT file at WOT it goes to 10.0 afr on my wideband no matter what.

my car is a 2003 20th AWP


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Can you disable VVT on the VVT maps? When I get my cable back from arnold I'm gonna look into converting the tune to a non VVT tune so I can gain access to the other maps that it allows that the non vvt stage 2 tune doesn't allow. Unless chris opens then up for those tunes.

There is a time delay before the ecu gives control over to the power enrichment map. This allows you to use the acceleration fuel map to control quick changes in throttle response and tip in throttle then allows the power enrichment map to control lambda for steady load at various requested torque. What you are adjusting spartiati is that time delay with that adjustment. I believe the reading is in seconds, so with it set at .1 basically the power enrichment map should have no delay in controling lambda, I would leave it there and adjust acceleration fuel if your running to rich on tip in.

The closed loop after hot start is just that, how long the car waits to go into closed loop after it's restarted and still warmed up. When you start the car and it's cooled,Like first start of the day the ecu waits til various sensors get up to certain readings, Coolant temp is a big on but there are a few others. On cold starts the ecu uses this information to determine when it's best, for emissions, to switch to closed loop. Well if you park your car, run into a store for 5 mins and come out. All the sensors are gonna be still flagged for "closed loop okay" So the ecu uses this adjustment to determine how long it should wait when it sees the car was just started but all the sensors are reading flagged for "closed loop okay". I would just leave this setting alone, no performance is gained by touching it, it would be used if you really wanna fine tune or had a problem with starting the car up again after leaving it for a short period of time.

If you can send me a picture of your opt torque map and a datalog of where the issue is happening, prefer a full throttle run if it happens during wot, maybe I can point ya in the right direction to get the 02 correction back. Remember at the moment I don't have a cable so I can't open the files with in maestro unfortunately


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

WiKKiDTT said:


> when i use histogram i get 0's thats it whats the deal? i tried searching





rodgertherabit said:


> I get something similar... Just Blank Cells...:screwy:





DougLoBue said:


> The histogram will only make adjustments to "correction" tables. Main fuel correction, injector correction, flowmeter correction.
> 
> You can trace any table though.





rodgertherabit said:


> Those are the tables I tried using the Trace/histogram function with blank cells as a result..




Any input or experience on this issue?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

rodgertherabit said:


> Any input or experience on this issue?


I Don't use the histogram much, I prefer to look at the raw data in a open office(because I'm a broke ass and can't afford office). But for the few time I DID use it I notice it didn't work on most tables. In all honesty the only table I would use it for is timing and making sure it's averaging the data not just using the last capture data.

Other then that, it's good to do a log driving around town and some partial throttles and full throttle runs and just watch where the car is targeting on the maps. If the red square moves around then you can follow the ecu's logic around the map. Helpful if your new to tuning and don't know how to translate real life to the various areas of the maps.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Thanks for the help cryser. It doesn't happen during the Full throttle run. During the full throttle pull it'll run fine. Once I lift and coast it down to normal speeds again and get back into throttle it'll just stay at zero corrections and never start correcting again until I cycle the ignition off and then on. I tried once to see how long it would take to regain corrections and continued driving for 35 minutes on the highway. Still no corrections. I picked up speed and hit the clutch while still on the highway and turned the car off let it sit for a second and restarted it (all while still cruisin on the highway. I do not recommend doing this to anyone) and then boom immediately the o2 corrections are back. 

I've tried a brand new o2 sensor and my old one. It doesnt make a difference. This does not occur on my old file though so it's safe to assume its something in the new file causing this. Now it may not sound all that serious but if it doesnt regain corrections and I go to step on it again the o2 goes way lean on a full throttle pull. Hence why I'm so worried. 

Cryser PM me your email and I'll send it over to you.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Thanks for the help cryser. It doesn't happen during the Full throttle run. During the full throttle pull it'll run fine. Once I lift and coast it down to normal speeds again and get back into throttle it'll just stay at zero corrections and never start correcting again until I cycle the ignition off and then on. I tried once to see how long it would take to regain corrections and continued driving for 35 minutes on the highway. Still no corrections. I picked up speed and hit the clutch while still on the highway and turned the car off let it sit for a second and restarted it (all while still cruisin on the highway. I do not recommend doing this to anyone) and then boom immediately the o2 corrections are back.
> 
> I've tried a brand new o2 sensor and my old one. It doesnt make a difference. This does not occur on my old file though so it's safe to assume its something in the new file causing this. Now it may not sound all that serious but if it doesnt regain corrections and I go to step on it again the o2 goes way lean on a full throttle pull. Hence why I'm so worried.
> 
> Cryser PM me your email and I'll send it over to you.


PM sent, from what you describing it could just be something weird with the new VVT file. We are using it in a way the ecu never intended it to be used and they maybe causing other flags to be set or unseen issues to arise. I'll look over the logs though and see if anything stands out that might be fixable through maestro though.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

spartiati said:


> I've tried a brand new o2 sensor and my old one. It doesnt make a difference. This does not occur on my old file though so it's safe to assume its something in the new file causing this. Now it may not sound all that serious but if it doesnt regain corrections and I go to step on it again the o2 goes way lean on a full throttle pull. Hence why I'm so worried.


Do you know if this was ocurring during your dyno file? I never saw this but I have never flashed the final release VVT on my car. Only thing I could suggest is to try lowering the EGT threshold and try using FLL map instead of LAMFA. This shouldn't make a difference as I'm pretty sure all my BETA files were using LAMFA not FLL. Strange...


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

> Originally Posted by TooLFan46n2
> 
> I'm very confused perhaps someone can explain. I've said this probably 3x in this thread and no one has ever commented on it. I thought Optimum Engine Torque was for part throttle? When the ECM is targeting 14.7? My interpetation of the Maestro Map Description (values for opt. spark and lambda=1)and Bosch doc indicated to me this was only for part throttle when ECM is 14.7. So why is every talking about using this map for full throttle corrections or am I off base here?






Cryser said:


> Secondly there is nothing in the ECU that "only" works at part throttle vs full throttle. Remeber the "Full load lambda map" is in fact "switched on" and takes over lambda control form the power enrichment map only once the EGT threshold is passed, it has nothing to do with throttle position. THe opt torque map is a back check map for the ecu it needs to be dialed in for all situations based on your your MAF sensor reading. As far as I can tell Max VE only effects to limit your Requested Load. If you wanted to you can really set it to a flat line of 500, your car is never going to reach that but if your opt torque map doesn't resemble you trying to reach 500 g/s then it's just serves as a way to protect from overboost.
> 
> The Opt torque map is basically where your telling the car where it should be power wise. The car takes this information, checks it against what torque it is actually making and then adjusts 02 correction(and ultimately this turns in to fuel trims) and timing in order to reach this number. If your making MORE torque then what the map says the car will give a negative 02 correction, the opposite is true for if your making less torque. I have found it's best to tune for -1 to -2% 02 correction as that gives the best driving feel.


Understood but the map specifically says "used while targeting 14.7 w/ optimum spark" in bosch & Eurodyne descriptions. Hence why I asked what is used at full throttle because we are not targeting 14.7 at full throttle. So is the Eurodyne map description wrong or is there another variable I'm not understanding.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Do you know if this was ocurring during your dyno file? I never saw this but I have never flashed the final release VVT on my car. Only thing I could suggest is to try lowering the EGT threshold and try using FLL map instead of LAMFA. This shouldn't make a difference as I'm pretty sure all my BETA files were using LAMFA not FLL. Strange...


Its the same file since then. I've tweaked it here and there but same thing overall. I never paid attention to it at the dyno. 

Its worth a shot. Chris will be looking into it this week for me.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Understood but the map specifically says "used while targeting 14.7 w/ optimum spark" in bosch & Eurodyne descriptions. Hence why I asked what is used at full throttle because we are not targeting 14.7 at full throttle. So is the Eurodyne map description wrong or is there another variable I'm not understanding.


Well technically it says while lambda = 1, now if that means 14.7 OR if lambda =1 simply means you reaching your target and they use the = 1 as a way to explain a balanced equations between all the maps that can and do effect fuel trim. The fuel trims and the 02 corrections is get force the fueling to get to what your targeting, now it makes sense to me at least that they mean lambda = target and they are using 1 to denote a balanced equation. But I'm not totally 100% sure that is the correct way to define it as I haven't really gotten into fully defining that description. I internally understand how the map works and know how to use what is given to me on a datalog to adjust the map to be more in line with what the car wants, atm that satisfied my needs of the map but I do plan to revisit it to figure what I described above out. Unfortunately without having a bosch engineer that worked on the programing and theory behind it to really ask questions, we may never know.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati when you get a chance can you take a screen shot of your opt torque map and send me the picture of it.

DO me favor, if you feel so inclined I don't want you to do anything you don't feel comfortable with but try this:

On the VVT map

Increase the value of your Opt torque map in the cells in which it is being effective by 10% in the rpm band past 3000rpms and get a log of that please. The X axis your looking for is 180-170 range so whichever cells would affect that range increase by 10% and do a new full throttle run. See if you regain correction then after a WOT run.

There are quite a few things different in the logs, the VVT map displays and records torque, the non vvt map doesn't. Your timing is a LOT higher in the VVT map then the no VVT map. Your car doesn't hit as high nor hold load for as long on the VVT map.

TO be honest from the looks of the logs the non VVT map seems faster and more healthy for the engine despite the 02 correction issue as the 02 are within acceptable correctable range, the VVT map the corrections are well outside what the ecu is happy with, I'm willing to be the VVT map has the cel for outside fuel trims turned off because the car would definitely be throwing a code.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Sure ill send that to you. I'm crashing at my girls house tonight so tomorrow night ill get that for you.

The non vvt has lower timing because I reset the timing values to stock and am running the street gas tune. Only way to run high timing is to use the minimum timing map. Only problem with that is that it doesn't have knock correction if you do it that way.

The vvt file is tons faster. It uses chris tapps tweak to not take load into the equation to calculate timing on wide open throttle. 

The CEL I have on the vvt file is the error in eeprom and low voltage from using a mini battery. Aside from that it runs fine. The o2 corrections were better. After changing the o2 sensor I didn't give it much time to adapt.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

the biggest thing that stands out is one records torque and one doesn't, but that's something Mr. Tapp is gonna have to figure out.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser said:


> the biggest thing that stands out is one records torque and one doesn't, but that's something Mr. Tapp is gonna have to figure out.


That's normal. The old file wasn't patched to show torque.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Are all you guys running with a MAF? what housing?

Whats the adverse affects running a tial 50mm with a maf besides running rich on closed throttle? 

what do you adjust to accommodate? i've searched but theres no info regarding maestro with MAF + BOV.

:beer:


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> That's normal. The old file wasn't patched to show torque.


how do you patch the file to show torque? I would really love to see mine once I get my cable back


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Cryser said:


> The Opt torque map is basically where your telling the car where it should be power wise. The car takes this information, checks it against what torque it is actually making and then adjusts 02 correction(and ultimately this turns in to fuel trims) and timing in order to reach this number. If your making MORE torque then what the map says the car will give a negative 02 correction, the opposite is true for if your making less torque. I have found it's best to tune for -1 to -2% 02 correction as that gives the best driving feel.


Regarding this...... Ok so if you use your 02 correction for the calibration of this map..... how do you know if your corrections in the main fuel and injection correction maps arn't the problem, or effecting that particular cell. Do you set those maps to 1.0001 so they don't interfere with the calibration.

Secondly I was reviewing some of my old logs and I happened to notice even though my TPS was at part throttle (like 5%) my spec load was 89 and my actual load was 23 (which was correctly matched up with my target filling map). Why was my spec load so high??? shouldn't it be lower?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Regarding this...... Ok so if you use your 02 correction for the calibration of this map..... how do you know if your corrections in the main fuel and injection correction maps arn't the problem, or effecting that particular cell. Do you set those maps to 1.0001 so they don't interfere with the calibration.
> 
> Secondly I was reviewing some of my old logs and I happened to notice even though my TPS was at part throttle (like 5%) my spec load was 89 and my actual load was 23 (which was correctly matched up with my target filling map). Why was my spec load so high??? shouldn't it be lower?


yea my buddies load is same way, hes running like 30 load actual, and 119 on load spec.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Not to steer off the current path of topic, but I have some questions about the VVT file as well.

Facts: I don't have VVT installed yet (it's on my desk and I'll be doing it late in the week), but I set the cam timing map to all .0012. I copied my injector constant and battery correction tables over too.

First off what TB is it tuned for? I had to export/import my Alpha N/Throttle vs. airflow from my working non-vvt file or I'd get a bad idle and bad drive-ability.

Second: the major difference- Now on E85 I thought I had run out of fuel pump flow at 20psi. The conditions I've seen are:

Non-VVT old file: Very minor 02 correction outside of boost, after full boost +10 correction.

New VVT file: more wild 02 correction outside of boost, from 3k to 6k it's actually pulling -20 o2 correction and showing rich actual lambda numbers, 6k on it pulls hard and has .5 or less correction.

*What gives? How are the two files so different? *

I'm assuming from 3k-6k is where the cam timing changes allowing more airflow through and the fuel is there to compensate? Also assuming that when I add VVT the crazy in boost correction will be gone.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Regarding this...... Ok so if you use your 02 correction for the calibration of this map..... how do you know if your corrections in the main fuel and injection correction maps arn't the problem, or effecting that particular cell. Do you set those maps to 1.0001 so they don't interfere with the calibration.
> 
> Secondly I was reviewing some of my old logs and I happened to notice even though my TPS was at part throttle (like 5%) my spec load was 89 and my actual load was 23 (which was correctly matched up with my target filling map). Why was my spec load so high??? shouldn't it be lower?


my main fuel correction map is 1.001 I don't use this map as it's really a last ditch effort when all else fails sorta map. There are much better ways to control lambda so I use those. The injection correction map I don't have to worry about I'm on stock injectors so the map is correct, I haven't begun research on how to set up that map yet as I have no need atm. I will once i go to the genesis 500cc injectors but atm I find no need to complicate my workload =P

So to answer you question I disabled one and "know" the other is set correctly =)

spec load is just a hard limit to the load your car will reach for at a certain level, you could set it to 1000 through the entire rev band. All that would do it allow your car to produce as much load as it can and try to reach that load as much as it could. The only reason to actually shape this map(controlled by max VE) is because 

1. It's just good tuning practice to have safety feature like that, when there is no need to remove them.

2. You can help control and form a smooth curve and ultimately limit boost if say a costumers fueling isn't up to far with what the hardware can ultimately produce.

You always want spec load to be higher then actual load during part throttle, this is so the car try and limit load when a large increase in torque demand is made. This produces a jerky driving feel.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Cryser said:


> my main fuel correction map is 1.001 I don't use this map as it's really a last ditch effort when all else fails sorta map. There are much better ways to control lambda so I use those. The injection correction map I don't have to worry about I'm on stock injectors so the map is correct, I haven't begun research on how to set up that map yet as I have no need atm. I will once i go to the genesis 500cc injectors but atm I find no need to complicate my workload =P
> 
> So to answer you question I disabled one and "know" the other is set correctly =)
> 
> ...


Exactly what I was looking for :thumbup: 



I just need to take this a step further its extremly hard for me to understand the adjustments for optimal torque map. Assuming I have no zero's in my 02 corrections.


Here is an instance where I have -4.13 of o2 correction. The cell selected during the correction is highlighted at 3520rpm with a % cylinder filling of 104% (this value does it represent the maximum load at that particuler RPM?). So what we have to do here is simply take away around 4% of the value at that selected cell? The selected cells value is 53.1 by the way.










This part I cannot understand for the life of me but maybe I'm just overtired or overthinking things. VVVVVVVVV:banghead:


Cryser said:


> Use common sense with these adjustments, if your adjusting 151% load out of a max defined 200% and your opt torque value is 30%... you probably need to raise not lower to get it back scale.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser I understand what you are saying with the torque map and o2 corrections but what about my situation?

I am running a slightly smaller throttle body than the 70mm file Calls for. That means the car anticipates more air via the alpha n and TB angle vs airflow map at X amount of torque at certain rpms. 

The way I was going about tuning o2 corrections was using that method. If I see the car was taking away 15% of fuel at a given rpms, I would go into the airflow table and lower the expected airflow there and o2 corrections would be more in line. I have not done this extensively on my current file yet because of time constraints and whatnot but how do you know when to correct airflow or torque in my situation?


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Exactly what I was looking for :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is what this thread NEEDS! Examples of Tables and how they are being adjusted :thumbup:


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Cryser said:


> my main fuel correction map is 1.001 I don't use this map as it's really a last ditch effort when all else fails sorta map. There are much better ways to control lambda so I use those. The injection correction map I don't have to worry about I'm on stock injectors so the map is correct, I haven't begun research on how to set up that map yet as I have no need atm. I will once i go to the genesis 500cc injectors but atm I find no need to complicate my workload =P
> 
> So to answer you question I disabled one and "know" the other is set correctly =)
> 
> ...


1.
A. For the sake of clarity & understanding for other users please stop saying 1.0001 *disables* the main fuel correction map. Using 1.0001 does not *disable* the map, it simply does not add corrections to the map. *ENABLE/DISABLE of the Main Fuel Correction is controlled by the EGT Threshold*

B. Good practice would be to actually enrich the main fuel correction for protection if using LAMFA for fueling. Especially if the safeguards found within the Main Fuel Correction (LAMBTS module) are disabled through the "Disable Torque Control over 100% is enabled.

2.
A. If you are ultimately trying to limit power output due to a insuffcient setup, would it not be more beneficial to use the VE, Boost PID & Duty Maps to properly scale & limit boost/power delivery.

B. I don't understand the purpose of lowering these OPT torque values. All it seems to me you are doing is limiting power output. In Budsdubbin's case why would he lower his values 4%? I can understand part throttle drivability but for full throttle why would you want to "cap" your torque and put a ceiling on what power the car can produce at full throttle ramping up to 100% load. To properly cap a torque value you would need to take a worse case scenario (High gear/Cold weather/large hill etc.) to effectively set this value. To me it seems detrimental to performance, why would you not want say have an extra 5% of headroom or so.

C. How does changing OPT torque values affect A/F other than possibly shifting it into a different cell in the LAMFA table. I believe you said previously there is a direct relationship between % opt torque and fuel corrections. I don't see the relationship can you elaborate or direct me to where you explained.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

and this is why I didn't want to get into tuning advice in this forum. People don't tell me everything right away, 8 people are gonna jump in here and tell them they do something a different way and it does the same thing. 

Sorry guys I can't handle it, I find myself having to type the same phrase of how I'm on a stock turbo and this works for me 100 times so I'm just gonna stop, I don't have the time.

I'm type it ONE MORE TIME

THERE ARE MANY WAY TO DO THE SAME THING IN MAESTRO 7 and ME7 IN GENERAL IF YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING A DIFFERENT WAY I AM NOT GOING TO CONVINCE YOU OTHERWISE.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Cryser said:


> and this is why I didn't want to get into tuning advice in this forum. People don't tell me everything right away, 8 people are gonna jump in here and tell them they do something a different way and it does the same thing.
> 
> Sorry guys I can't handle it, I find myself having to type the same phrase of how I'm on a stock turbo and this works for me 100 times so I'm just gonna stop, I don't have the time.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*What exactly does the EGT threshold control?*

I'm seeing my A/F go very rich before the EGTs reach the 900˚c threshold I've set. For example, logs show specified Lambda going to .73 despite EGTs being a good 30 degrees under 900˚c. Why would that be? I don't have a .73 Lambda set in any maps, so it's hard to understand how the ECU is doing this. Also, this is on a wideband TT225 with an EGT probe in the turbine housing. Maestro EGT strategy is selected to that the probe signal.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Cryser said:


> and this is why I didn't want to get into tuning advice in this forum. People don't tell me everything right away, 8 people are gonna jump in here and tell them they do something a different way and it does the same thing.
> 
> Sorry guys I can't handle it, I find myself having to type the same phrase of how I'm on a stock turbo and this works for me 100 times so I'm just gonna stop, I don't have the time.
> 
> ...


Is there anyway you can find the time to answer my post VIA PM.... I wasn't trying to start a tuning arguement. My post was simply a way to understand exactly what you mean by tuning Optimal Torque map through 02 correction. If you can I would gladly appreciate it..:thumbup:


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

What adverse effects could come from high oil temp?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

cooked bearings


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

rodgertherabit said:


> This is what this thread NEEDS! Examples of Tables and how they are being adjusted :thumbup:


totally

less chit chat, more information.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Budsdubbin said:


> cooked bearings


 What temp is considered high?

But with the tune is there anything that the ecu does when it see's high temps?

Thanks!


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser said:


> and this is why I didn't want to get into tuning advice in this forum. People don't tell me everything right away, 8 people are gonna jump in here and tell them they do something a different way and it does the same thing.
> 
> Sorry guys I can't handle it, I find myself having to type the same phrase of how I'm on a stock turbo and this works for me 100 times so I'm just gonna stop, I don't have the time.
> 
> ...


Cryser I was not arguing nor trying to get under your skin. Simply trying to understand the difference. It's easy for you to say just tweak the torque since you know your airflow tables are good since your still using the factory maf and throttle body. 

I merely wanted to understand. That's all.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Cryser said:


> and this is why I didn't want to get into tuning advice in this forum. People don't tell me everything right away, 8 people are gonna jump in here and tell them they do something a different way and it does the same thing.
> 
> Sorry guys I can't handle it, I find myself having to type the same phrase of how I'm on a stock turbo and this works for me 100 times so I'm just gonna stop, I don't have the time.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying do anything any other way. I was just clarifying what actually disables MFC. Due to the different styles across all different tunes I think it should be clearly stated that MFC can still be active with no corrections in it. My intention with bold was to make my point stand out to other readers who may not know this.

No one is saying do anything different, we are just all trying to understand better. Many of the TAPP's most recent tunes are LAMFA based so are BT tunes are setup somewhat similiar to what you are doing on your stock turbo. I'm sorry if your offended by me asking about VE vs. torque but like I stated earlier I don't understand the torque model. Its pretty much 5-Dimensional and I can't wrap my head around it. I thought what I was asking was a valid question as I don't understand the purpose of limiting torque in a performance application--unless it has to do with a Torque deviation variable of (actual vs. requested tq) than can result in lower power output. I enjoy reading everyones progress and findings unfortunetly I havent had my car running to dive in and experiment with some suggestions so my hands on comprehension may be lagging behind I only lightly dabbled in the torque maps. :beer:


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Is there anyway you can find the time to answer my post VIA PM.... I wasn't trying to start a tuning arguement. My post was simply a way to understand exactly what you mean by tuning Optimal Torque map through 02 correction. If you can I would gladly appreciate it..:thumbup:


This would be A common procedure that Every User should have Access to knowledge of...whether its from Tapp directly or thru people to CLEARLY have lots of experience can elaborate more on their techniques besides. "You need to Tune the ___ Table..." and maybe give us a better idea of how you're actually doing this in the program.

I know we are all not Prof tuners, but we all need to start somewhere :beer:


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

To be quite honest that post wasn't to any of the people that responded, it was more of a way to target the audience of people that seem to think I'm a free tune service since I decided to describe a few maps in this thread. This thread is where they obviously got that idea so it is in this thread where I posted my response. That being said I think I just need to step away from the questions for a good day and clear my head.

Tool to be honest your fighting semantics, in the bosch documents it says to disable a cell you fill it with 1.001 in the MFC, therefor filling the entire map with 1.001 is disabling it. It no longer affects the fuel algorithm therefor, for all intensive purposes it is "disabled" hence why I use that terminology and will continue to do so.

I've talked to a lot of tuners who tune these cars not only in the states by across the pond, they don't agree on a lot but most of them agree that MFC is a very BAD way of trying to control fueling, therefor I will NEVER consider it good practice to use this map unless every other possible way is exhausted. I've been turned on to 1,(yes 1) time in the 1000's of collective tunes that MFC was used and that because the tuner didn't have access to LAMFA(map wasn't available in the ecu he said) and he couldn't get the fuel trim to sort itself out, even then he told me the only reason he used the map was for dyno numbers and cleared it once the car was off the dyno, costumer was happy with the tune.

2a. you are correct, I never stated that the max ve table was the only way to limit boost because of hardware shortcomings, nor do I suggest that is the only or beneficial way, it is just a way to do it. 

As stated before the Opt torque is a check map, it does not mean the car is making that torque, by your logic the best way to tune would be to completely fill the table with 99.999% and just go for broke. It doesn't work that way, you need to tell the ecu what it SHOULD be producing. Yes you can limit torque output by extra low values on this map, but having 2 high of values(which many people do) causes the ecu to fight itself ultimately LOWERING power output. Sometimes you need to back things off a bit to go faster.

A great example is when people crank their wastegates too much. Our ecu's are a wonderful device and lots of parameters effect not only WHAT it does in response to variables but HOW it does that WHAT. If you slam your wastegate shut to get better spool your also causing the ECU to pull back harder on the boost once you get to the point you want to limit boost. So yes you may be getting better spool up but in the longer term you lose MORE boost once the ecu starts to try and control the boost by opening the wastegate because it saw the boost ramp up in such a quick fashion it opened the wastegate more then if the boost came up to the set point slower.

Tuning isn't about being as aggressive as possible to get the better results, it's about a balance of controlling not only the ecu but also how the ecu see and reacts to variables. Not everyone is tuning a race car so sometimes backing off some values while it may seem counter productive will have better results then just being aggressive.

The big problem I have with that new option of torque not effect the timing is, to me it seems Tapp is trying to dumb down the tuning process so that anyone can tune these ecus. Sorry but this is kinda like saying everyone should be an engineer... It's just not true, not everyone should be using this program and I find no reason to even have that option especially since it seems to totally remove knock correct at this time. People seem to forget before maestro 7 these cars were tuned for YEARS and everything was fine, why is it now that we have an option to disregard the opt torque table effect on timing. They didn't need to use that option for years, why now? Just tune the damn Opt table correctly and you don't have an issue. I don't even have the option for that on my map, yet in my log it looks like it's check because I in fact run the timing values I put in the cells because the torque maps are correct.

The object of tuning isn't to FORCE the ecu to do what you want, it's find out how to make the ecu do what you want and be happy with it. I'm personally against MAFLESS cars on the street, and in talk to many European tuners they are as well. IT's because of people wanting the easy way out that they are so popular over here. If you learn the map and program a MAF tune can be jsut as powerful if not more powerful then a MAFLESS tune on a street car, MAFLESS tunes are for race cars and the race track environment, they honestly have no place on a street car.

2c. This was answered by el ray, the LAMFA map is requested torque only it has nothing to do with actual torque... I can no longer edit that post so I can't change that but if you read more into the thread you will see he was indeed right and I agree with him after doing more research. What was confusing me was I assumed(wrongly) that requested torque was an instant change instead of a gradual build. Because of that assumption I came to the wrong conclusion that actual torque played a role in LAMFA's X axis. It does not, the axis is purely following the output of the KFPED variable, this variable is set in the map known to maestro users as acceleration pedal map.

Opt torque's effect on the fuel trim is simple, if your telling the car that it SHOULD be making 99% of it's torque and it calculates it's only making 80% it was 1 recourse to correct this problem in terms of fueling. Add more fuel, more fuel more torque(to a degree). That is why you can use the 02 corrections to edit the opt torque maps. This also why anything that effects torque is going to effect those corrections. We unfortunately we don't have the luxury of going open loop when we are WOT so that means if your torque maps are off your ecu might actually be fighting you even at WOT. 

The opt torque map is not where you try and gain power, you do that through target filling, boost maps, acceleration pedal, etc. Opt torque is where you effectively tell the ecu that it is okay that you are now making that power. 

Spartati 

Your case is a bit different because of what you've said. hopefully that above last paragraph kinda helps guide you to the answer. The opt torque map is really the very last map you should be working on once you know the other maps are in line. I don't know how to adjust those MAFLESS control tables, I've never done it but I can tell you that be doing adjustments like your describing your just effectively making the values in your opt torque map work for the ecu, your just doing it by adjusting a different variable and sorta in a round about way. Now is your way wrong and mine right? couldn't tell you in all honestly we would have to strap the car to a dyno and spend basically all day doing it your way, then reset and do it in the opt torque map and see which ending up making more power, then go drive them on the street and make sure they both drove fine to decide a clear "winner" in terms of what we are all really here for which is more power.

by decreasing the airflow over the TB table, your just decreasing the torque calculation that car is making at the cell... so instead of changing the value the ecu is checking against your changing the value the ecu is using to check, does that make sense? Your just balancing from the other side of the equation then me in a way.

example

A+X = Y+B

X = 2
Y= 1

in terms of the ecu we can't change the equation, we are limited in that sense so we have to use the variables A and B to balance the equation, your using A I'm using B that's all, in reality the best answer probably lies within changing both A and B in the correct degree.

Buds,

NO the cell is not the max load value, it your current load, the reason that cell is highlighted is because you don't have a 98.39 cell and the cell to the left of it (I think it's 77 or something) no longer has dominate control of the interpolation of the values. But for what your worried about yes this is the cell you would correct, but I would only lower it by 1-1.5% I stated before I found best drivability when the 02 corrections were in the (-1) - (-2) range so you don't want to completely zero them out.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

If I could kiss you through the screen right now I would. 

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0807/no-****-****-gay-demotivational-poster-1216485644.jpg


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

:laugh:^^^^ Thats good stuff there

And Cryser I've been reading this thread alot and your input on this stuff is appreciated, don't give up on us:thumbup: My car should be running again in a month or so and will be re-reading all this stuff again so the more people like you and elRey and others post in here it helps everyone


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

can someone email me a log they took that eveything looks good in?

Im trying to look at my logs and see what may be too high or too low.

thanks


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Yes this info is helping me big time but I also have a pro tuner friend that is helping also. Please keep up the great info!


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Cryser,

Your efforts and time that is being put into providing information that you have to the 1.8T eurodyne community is like no other, and is greatly appreciated. 

I'll be starting up in a month or so, new to ME7 tuning...and im sure everything you have posted will come as a great help.

Keep it up :beer:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Cryser I have one more question on this subject.... Will any adjustment you make in the Optimum torque map have an impact on your target filling map. In other words since both maps are inverse of eachother will you have to make a similar adjustment in that particular area of the target filling map....


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

nope, the opt torque map is simply a map to check making changes to it doesn't alter any other maps. The inverse rule is not a set rule but a "rule of thumb" that is (poorly) stated because of the look of the maps. It is not always true that raising the target filling value means a lower of the opt torque is needed, nor is the inverse. If you look at each and every cell you'll began to see as a global concept the inverse rule goes out the window, right where boost begans to build in terms of load on the engine and in the mid range of the rpm range. 

You adjsut the opt torque maps so that when the ecu is back checking on your altered target filling values it doesn't pull a load of fuel because the opt torque maps are set for the unaltered target filling maps.


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## Hansi80 (Jun 15, 2009)

Could we get all the map explanations and other good info moved to the front of the thread or another thread, without all the chatting? Make this the discussion thread, and the other thread the facts thread?

It's very difficult to search for good info in a 72 page thread..


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Hansi80 said:


> Could we get all the map explanations and other good info moved to the front of the thread or another thread, without all the chatting? Make this the discussion thread, and the other thread the facts thread?
> 
> It's very difficult to search for good info in a 72 page thread..


I concur :thumbup:


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Hansi80 said:


> Could we get all the map explanations and other good info moved to the front of the thread or another thread, without all the chatting? Make this the discussion thread, and the other thread the facts thread?
> 
> It's very difficult to search for good info in a 72 page thread..





DougLoBue said:


> I concur :thumbup:


X3....Estoy de acuerdo (I agree)


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I'm stumped. If anyone has any advice please help!

I've been running E85 for about 1k miles now. I had the tune nailed down pretty well for part throttle- running 900cc injectors, telling the ECU they were 21% smaller at 710cc. My block 032 value was 1.7 and 02 corrections in the decimals during idle and +/- 3 while driving.

I decided to try a VVT tune and disable VVT. It didn't work well and I swapped back. Drove the car about 20 miles round trip to work the next day and it started going really lean at idle and part throttle- lambda 3+. I checked block 32 and it was +17. Seems the car was running really lean and fighting to add as much gas as possible. I limped it home since I was close and saw no knock at all.

Replaced the WB 02 sensor and checked the spark plugs. No stored codes. I've tried both the VVT and non-VVT tune now and what I see is:

02 corrections: -25 with non-VVT tune. Solid, doesn't go below -20.

The VVT tune hits a high correction value when the car goes rich to .8 at idle. Compensates, 02 corrections go positive then the car goes rich again. It cycles this process.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

DougLoBue said:


> I'm stumped. If anyone has any advice please help!
> 
> I've been running E85 for about 1k miles now. I had the tune nailed down pretty well for part throttle- running 900cc injectors, telling the ECU they were 21% smaller at 710cc. My block 032 value was 1.7 and 02 corrections in the decimals during idle and +/- 3 while driving.
> 
> ...


 Don't really know what to tell you. If Tune A was previously working, Tune B doesn't run good and 
you switch back to tune A w/ no changes and now it runs poorly that sounds like a coincedental hardware issue. 

Also it might not be accurate to check fuel trims after 20 miles. Mine always start out fairly high after flashing the car and drop down. Not sure why the VVT file would run rough w/ the cam timing zero'd out. I have noticed there have been quite a few revisions to the VVT Base file Optimum timing Maps though


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> sounds like a coincedental hardware issue.


 Thanks for the advice!

What hardware failures should I look into? Coilpacks are brand new 2.0T units. Spark plugs are NGK BRK7EIX Iridium "racing" with 2k on them. 02 sensor is brand new as of Wednesday. Fuel pump is running and pressure is at 45psi on the gauge. Only thing I can think of is that my injectors failed and can't control fuel anymore? Is that even possible? They are ID1000's.

*EDIT: to anyone who has this issue in the future. By running the VVT tune I blew out the resistor I had in place of the VVT module. I had a 10w 330ohm so it was a big one.*


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

Dougs already going to kill me for this... 

but have a AWM ECU (wideband, 01 Audi A4) 4B0906018CH sitting in front of me right now. 

Can a longitundial AWM ECU from a A4 or Passat be used to swap my AMU 01 TT over to wideband so I can purchase Maestro here and get moving! 

Tried to find the pin outs for the AWM...haven't found them. 

Eurodyne's feature matrix sheet lists the AWM as a 180hpTT motor 

Just wondering...found this spreadsheet as well in the FAQ that compares ECU pinouts...but no AWM listed. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5049235-APH-AWW-AWP-AWV-wiring-harness-comparison 

Any help would be much appreciated! 

Joe


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## poopie (Feb 22, 2005)

i think the AWM is compatible with the AWP ecus...not the AMUs if you want plug and play. however i'm not sure what conversions are possible.


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> Dougs already going to kill me for this...
> 
> but have a AWM ECU (wideband, 01 Audi A4) 4B0906018CH sitting in front of me right now.
> 
> ...


 We are finishing up a customers build right now on his Audi TT and just bought the Raceline conversion kit with a new ECU it was about 300 shipped for everything.. Has full instructions on the site and it seems pretty easy i did the over night shipping should be here tomorrow or the next day but heres a pic of the build  

 

You can go check out more pics here 
https://www.facebook.com/Vagwerks#!/media/set/?set=a.243759252381825.55931.100002432558411&type=1


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

in the process of converting a 98 a4 to wideband 2001 tuning.....if anyone is interested in a write up let me know as i never see any info on this topic.....if it works out well like it should i modify 2001 harnesses for probably 200 dollars each. narrowband sucks!


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> in the process of converting a 98 a4 to wideband 2001 tuning.....if anyone is interested in a write up let me know as i never see any info on this topic.....if it works out well like it should i modify 2001 harnesses for probably 200 dollars each. narrowband sucks!


 Raceline sells the kit..Thats what i was saying about its legit and about 275 with a new wideband ECU and the harness that you pin in and step by step instructions 

http://www.raceline-ws.com/


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> in the process of converting a 98 a4 to wideband 2001 tuning.....if anyone is interested in a write up let me know as i never see any info on this topic.....if it works out well like it should i modify 2001 harnesses for probably 200 dollars each. narrowband sucks!


 My friend swapped a 2000 A4 to wideband in about five seconds. Due to the length of the wire from the ECU to the 02 connector it makes this job even easier than an A chassis platform. You just need the WB connector and two pins.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> My friend swapped a 2000 A4 to wideband in about five seconds. Due to the length of the wire from the ECU to the 02 connector it makes this job even easier than an A chassis platform. You just need the WB connector and two pins.


 
Aeb cars are conpletly different. Entire body harness is different and it has a throttle cable. Never seen it done. Atw are easy


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

I was successfully in swapping a awm ecu and hharness to the 98 a4. Only took a few hours. Pretty excited.


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## AudiTaxed (Nov 30, 2010)

For AEB + Maestro guys (like me) an AWM swap sounds like a good way to take advantage of wideband Maestro features. So do you need to swap the pedal assembly & throttle body as well (to make it DBW)?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

AudiTaxed said:


> For AEB + Maestro guys (like me) an AWM swap sounds like a good way to take advantage of wideband Maestro features. So do you need to swap the pedal assembly & throttle body as well (to make it DBW)?


You need the pedal assembly with switches, the awm harness and ecu and that's it. Just have to wire everything and swap the aeb body plugs over. Took some time looking at diagrams that's about it. The hardest part is the extra wires for the pedals


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## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

so i went ahead and changed the following map










So my reasoning for this was i didn't like how when i gave my car half throttle, i got a lot of power.....as when i went full throttle, it was the same feeling.

I'd rather a system where how much i open it up, depicts how fast i go.


makes it easier/smoother to drive and would enjoy that better.

well anyways, it didn't work:

It made the boost not stable during 3/4 throttle & and still felt peppy in the lower rpm range at minimal throttle.....fack!


The way i know this is possible is because i lowered my maximum VE due to my clutch beginning to slip in 5th and 6th at 4k so i can prolong the life until i get my new clutch. As shown below











so driving with the lowered VE made it much smoother and initiated this whole process of smoothing out the throttle.



HEre is what the map looked like to start - it only made sense to switch this one as the bulge in the centre is lower which means more boost down at lower rpm...











Here is what i was told to change originally but the numbers dont seem to high down low as it has a smooth upperward curve.











PLS HELP!


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

hondss said:


> so i went ahead and changed the following map
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What your trying to do involves alot more maps. I tried the same thing. What your basically trying is to achieve a drive by cable throttle response from drive by wire. Its hard. I tried changing my accelerator pedal map to a liner increase to that % throttle equals requested load or whatever but it helps and also makes the car feel a little weird. Good luck maybe someone else has had better results.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

tojr1088 said:


> What your trying to do involves alot more maps. I tried the same thing. What your basically trying is to achieve a drive by cable throttle response from drive by wire. Its hard. I tried changing my accelerator pedal map to a liner increase to that % throttle equals requested load or whatever but it helps and also makes the car feel a little weird. Good luck maybe someone else has had better results.


_I believe_ in order to do what you guys want, you need to modify your Target Filling maps so they reflect any substantial changes. What you may have been experiencing was some torque intervention, or inconsistancies within the torque maps. Consequently you may need to alter your Opt. TQ table as a result of modifying the Target Filling map.


----------



## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Would interesting to see it work


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

well i will be on a mission to get this to work - or something along the lines


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

you going to what to work within the pedal acceleration map and the target filling maps. Once you get those where you want you going to want to modify the opt torque maps and boost duty cycle maps. After that a slight modification of the PID map might be need to "smooth" the boost to a drivable matter.

This is very hard to achieve without any sacrifices in your plan with a small framed turbo, it was something I tried to do for a long time. What makes it for difficult is that fact you have to change multiple maps at a time or the car becomes hard to drive or you get bucking/hesitation.


----------



## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

maestro keeps crashing on my laptop at startup.. any ideas? i have the newest version 3.0.5.. i've tried re-installing but it hasn't helped.. annoying i can't edit my tune :banghead:

my laptop is running windows 7 64bit


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Hmm... I run it on win7 x64 as well. I have had issues with an XP machine requiring the latest version of .NET in order to get the program to run IIRC.

Maybe try that and make sure you're up to date. Anything in the event log?


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

if maps are inverse to eachother (eg alpha n / tb angle vs. airflow) do all the values between the two maps have to equal eachother?

also, can I use a oem b5 s4 MAF housing for calibrating these tables? its 80mm.


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> if maps are inverse to eachother (eg alpha n / tb angle vs. airflow) do all the values between the two maps have to equal eachother?
> 
> also, can I use a oem b5 s4 MAF housing for calibrating these tables? its 80mm.


you can use an oem s4 maf. the flowmeter (maf) choices are shown in maestro in the flowmeter tab. select the one your gonna use. and yes u can calibrate throttle vs. airflow with a maf and essentially the alpha n at the same time


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> you can use an oem s4 maf. the flowmeter (maf) choices are shown in maestro in the flowmeter tab. select the one your gonna use. and yes u can calibrate throttle vs. airflow with a maf and essentially the alpha n at the same time


pow! good news. have a left over maf from my friends s4 build.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I found that the tab "flowmeter corrections" had a bunch of values left over from who knows where. So I entered 1.0001 in all fields to ensure the g/s values were metering properly.


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I found that the tab "flowmeter corrections" had a bunch of values left over from who knows where. So I entered 1.0001 in all fields to ensure the g/s values were metering properly.


no adverse effects i assume?

noticed that on mine as well.


----------



## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

DougLoBue said:


> Hmm... I run it on win7 x64 as well. I have had issues with an XP machine requiring the latest version of .NET in order to get the program to run IIRC.
> 
> Maybe try that and make sure you're up to date. Anything in the event log?


yeah that's what it was :thumbup: i forgot i had windows updates turned off lol


----------



## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

does the engine's wideband correct for lambda at WOT or is fueling just off of calculated values?

i'm leaning out under full boost at high rpms and i'm trying to figure out why, my o2 sensor is shot so i don't know if that is the problem or if it's something else with my fueling


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

dubbin_boho said:


> does the engine's wideband correct for lambda at WOT or is fueling just off of calculated values?
> 
> i'm leaning out under full boost at high rpms and i'm trying to figure out why, my o2 sensor is shot so i don't know if that is the problem or if it's something else with my fueling


First of all a wideband car with a bad 02 is not good. Especially mafless. All it has is 02 for correction


----------



## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

tojr1088 said:


> First of all a wideband car with a bad 02 is not good. Especially mafless. All it has is 02 for correction


i know  but i do have a separate AEM wideband that i can keep an eye on things. i've replaced the sensor and nothing's changed.. i think it might be the wiring but i don't know how to test it.. it just reads 14.7 no matter what


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

dubbin_boho said:


> does the engine's wideband correct for lambda at WOT or is fueling just off of calculated values?
> 
> i'm leaning out under full boost at high rpms and i'm trying to figure out why, my o2 sensor is shot so i don't know if that is the problem or if it's something else with my fueling


are you mafless or maf?

logs?

is it your stock pre cat O2 thats shot?


----------



## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

Rac_337 said:


> are you mafless or maf?
> 
> logs?
> 
> is it your stock pre cat O2 thats shot?


mafless.. yeah pre-cat o2 (i'm catless and i don't even have the rear o2 plugged in, just turned off in maestro)


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

dubbin_boho said:


> mafless.. yeah pre-cat o2 (i'm catless and i don't even have the rear o2 plugged in, just turned off in maestro)


A. Buy a WB 02 sensor. They are $55 at Autozone & have a 2 year warranty they will replace them without question. Bosch PN: 17014

B. plug in a rear 02 sensor. You need it for LTF's to adapt I think.

C. consider running a MAF


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

dubbin_boho said:


> mafless.. yeah pre-cat o2 (i'm catless and i don't even have the rear o2 plugged in, just turned off in maestro)


Mafless relies heavily on your primary o2. I'd say that's why you are not running right. With no Maf and a bad o2 your ecu doesn't have any way of knowing what real time afr actually is. ( or what it should be for that matter)


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

DougLoBue said:


> B. plug in a rear 02 sensor. You need it for LTF's to adapt I think.


Rear o2 is not required for fuel trims, my rear o2 is in a box on the shelf. :thumbup:


----------



## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

DougLoBue said:


> A. Buy a WB 02 sensor. They are $55 at Autozone & have a 2 year warranty they will replace them without question. Bosch PN: 17014
> 
> B. plug in a rear 02 sensor. You need it for LTF's to adapt I think.
> 
> C. consider running a MAF


i got a new one from autozone and nothing changed.. 

it's throwing codes p0030 HO2S Heater Control Circuit, Bank 1 Sensor 1 and p0135 O2 Sensor Heater Circuit, Bank 1 Sensor 1


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Any feedback on the 70mm file that was built recently?


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

screwball said:


> Any feedback on the 70mm file that was built recently?


What file was this? I wouldn't mind giving the file a shot.


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

dubbin_boho said:


> i got a new one from autozone and nothing changed..
> 
> it's throwing codes p0030 HO2S Heater Control Circuit, Bank 1 Sensor 1 and p0135 O2 Sensor Heater Circuit, Bank 1 Sensor 1


Check all your wiring with a volt meter yet?


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> What file was this? I wouldn't mind giving the file a shot.


I'm pretty sure the AWP VVT file uses a 70mm TB. You could export the maps and import them to your file. That's what I plan on doing when I get my 70mm in soon.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

DougLoBue said:


> I'm pretty sure the AWP VVT file uses a 70mm TB. You could export the maps and import them to your file. That's what I plan on doing when I get my 70mm in soon.


No all availabe tunes in maestro for AWP are using the factory throttle body (last I checked a week ago).


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

I've tried the AWP vvt file, no one mentioned that it was for anything other than a stock TB.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I got an email some time ago saying there was a bigport 70mm file available through Maestro. I haven't had time to check it yet though.


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I have that say file. At the Time I was testing it. Still running it actually. I don't know if it was publicly released but it was email requested.


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

I would love a 70mm TB file as I will be finishing my build here shortlyopcorn:


----------



## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

screwball said:


> I got an email some time ago saying there was a bigport 70mm file available through Maestro. I haven't had time to check it yet though.


i talked to chris last week he said its out...i just got my 70mm and my intake manifold comes in next week hope to flash it and see what happens.


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Vdubed13 said:


> i talked to chris last week he said its out...i just got my 70mm and my intake manifold comes in next week hope to flash it and see what happens.


Do you know what the file is titled?


----------



## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

no i dont he just said theres a 70 file on meastro.. truthfully im not even sure how to find it.. but i am calling him here at lunch time ill ask him and update you with what he says. :thumbup:


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

No 70mm file in Maestro, however there is now an E85 1000cc file!


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> No 70mm file in Maestro, however there is now an E85 1000cc file!


Which is actually the reverse of what you want. I run E85 and that file tells the car the injectors are 25% larger than they actually are. You want to tune about 20% smaller than they actually are.

I run my 900cc ID1000's at 705 for perfect fueling on E85.


----------



## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> Which is actually the reverse of what you want. I run E85 and that file tells the car the injectors are 25% larger than they actually are. You want to tune about 20% smaller than they actually are.
> 
> I run my 900cc ID1000's at 705 for perfect fueling on E85.


Yepp I do the same with my 830s


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> No 70mm file in Maestro, however there is now an E85 1000cc file!


Really???? Me want one of those there...

Who has it?


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

DougLoBue said:


> Which is actually the reverse of what you want. I run E85 and that file tells the car the injectors are 25% larger than they actually are. You want to tune about 20% smaller than they actually are.
> 
> I run my 900cc ID1000's at 705 for perfect fueling on E85.


What Injector Constant are you using?


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Gulfstream said:


> Really???? Me want one of those there...


x2, just got an S4 TB off eBay for $50 :thumbup:


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

l88m22vette said:


> x2, just got an S4 TB off eBay for $50 :thumbup:


I'm interested. I have a s4 throttle body collecting dust cause I don't feel like tuning the airflow tables again


----------



## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> I'm interested. I have a s4 throttle body collecting dust cause I don't feel like tuning the airflow tables again


yea i just updated my maestro and its not on there i called him today but he was busy said he get bback to me and for me to shoot him an email so i did when i hear back ill inform all cause i get my mani next week and im trying to do it all at once.

Also all the base files on there say MAF and im MAFLESS so how would i be able to turn that off if he does have and it says MAF?


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Vdubed13 said:


> yea i just updated my maestro and its not on there i called him today but he was busy said he get bback to me and for me to shoot him an email so i did when i hear back ill inform all cause i get my mani next week and im trying to do it all at once.
> 
> Also all the base files on there say MAF and im MAFLESS so how would i be able to turn that off if he does have and it says MAF?


Stage 3 ffiles automatically use alpha n if the maf is unplugged. No need to turn the maf on or off


----------



## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> Stage 3 ffiles automatically use alpha n if the maf is unplugged. No need to turn the maf on or off


what about the new vvt files are they the same way? and i see he has em for 630cc and 750cc but im running 870cc can i just change that in the injector wizard before i would flash it?


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Vdubed13 said:


> what about the new vvt files are they the same way? and i see he has em for 630cc and 750cc but im running 870cc can i just change that in the injector wizard before i would flash it?


I run the VVT file mafless without issue. You can use the injector wizard to recalculate your injector constant to match your injector size. Than adjust the BVC as required to get an acceptable idle.


----------



## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

sabbySC said:


> I run the VVT file mafless without issue. You can use the injector wizard to recalculate your injector constant to match your injector size. Than adjust the BVC as required to get an acceptable idle.


yeah i just got mine running on it with the 1000cc file :thumbup:


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

can anyone email me the 70mm file? no response from eurodyne support as usual. Please PM.


----------



## wooly808 (Oct 5, 2009)

Anyone out there fairly dialed, running 80MM SEM mani with cams that would like to share their Alpha N map with me? 

Thanks ahead of time.


----------



## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

sabbySC said:


> I run the VVT file mafless without issue. You can use the injector wizard to recalculate your injector constant to match your injector size. Than adjust the BVC as required to get an acceptable idle.


 thanks man 



dubbin_boho said:


> yeah i just got mine running on it with the 1000cc file :thumbup:


 might hit you up next week to help me with my BVC cause im not to sure how to mess with that :thumbup:


----------



## wooly808 (Oct 5, 2009)

Vdubed13 said:


> might hit you up next week to help me with my BVC cause im not to sure how to mess with that :thumbup:


 Take it from the latency chart on you injector spec sheet (delay in ms). Which injectors do you have?


----------



## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

wooly808 said:


> Take it from the latency chart on you injector spec sheet (delay in ms). Which injectors do you have?


 sema 870s problem is i need someone to like sit down with and show me and walk me through it..i can build what ever but i really just not to sure how to tune or what to do and i dont want to mess anything up unless i know what im doing


----------



## wooly808 (Oct 5, 2009)

insert the delay in ms into the places corresponding with the voltage axis on your map. the 14v latency is the most important since that is "normal" voltage of the charging system. interpolate if you must, I just changed the axis to even voltage numbers and put them in. 

PM me if you have questions


----------



## wooly808 (Oct 5, 2009)

crap, that turned out way too small. 

6V 2.811ms 
8V 1.777ms 
10v 1.288ms 
11v 1.142ms 
12v 1.017ms 
13v 0.903ms 
14v 0.801ms 
15v 0.721ms 

there arent enough spaces to put them all in so you will have to skip (do evens only) just make sure you put the 14v in there.


----------



## wooly808 (Oct 5, 2009)

wooly808 said:


> Anyone out there fairly dialed, running 80MM SEM mani with cams that would like to share their Alpha N map with me?
> 
> Thanks ahead of time.


 

bump


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

I sent them an email to, but I'll be patient as it is Easter and everyone deserves a break from work :beer:


----------



## heavyd1.8t (Jun 9, 2006)

Could someone share their BCV chart and ic for 1000cc injector dynamics at 3bar. 

Car has always ran like ****. I can clean it up to either run good warm, idle good warm or warm up good from cold, all three isn't fking possible on maestro with my 02 awp 1.8t. 

I'm ready to dump this bull****. Tech support = bull****. My tuner (CAW) is more efficient at wasting my money then finding an effective solution. They'd rather run every diagnostic, change my throttle body, bought a new ecu every sensor replaced, been through five new 02 sensors. Coolant sensors, blah fking blah same ****. Runs great warm, but from cold? Fking forget it.


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

heavyd1.8t said:


> Could someone share their BCV chart and ic for 1000cc injector dynamics at 3bar.
> 
> Car has always ran like ****. I can clean it up to either run good warm, idle good warm or warm up good from cold, all three isn't fking possible on maestro with my 02 awp 1.8t.
> 
> I'm ready to dump this bull****. Tech support = bull****. My tuner (CAW) is more efficient at wasting my money then finding an effective solution. They'd rather run every diagnostic, change my throttle body, bought a new ecu every sensor replaced, been through five new 02 sensors. Coolant sensors, blah fking blah same ****. Runs great warm, but from cold? Fking forget it.


 Where are you at? Are you in Calgary? What are the specifics of your setup? Feel free to PM me if you like. I'm sure your setup can be sorted out.


----------



## heavyd1.8t (Jun 9, 2006)

sabbySC said:


> Where are you at? Are you in Calgary? What are the specifics of your setup? Feel free to PM me if you like. I'm sure your setup can be sorted out.


 
PM Sent! 

Thanks for the interest!!


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

heavyd1.8t said:


> I'm ready to dump this bull****. Tech support = bull****. My tuner (CAW) is more efficient at wasting my money then finding an effective solution. They'd rather run every diagnostic, change my throttle body, bought a new ecu every sensor replaced, been through five new 02 sensors. Coolant sensors, blah fking blah same ****. Runs great warm, but from cold? Fking forget it.


 Throwing parts over and over at a car isn't diagnostics, seems like you need a new "tuner"


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Cryser said:


> Throwing parts over and over at a car isn't diagnostics, seems like you need a new "tuner"


 We'll get him sorted out, he's in my home town :beer:


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> We'll get him sorted out, he's in my home town :beer:


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

My 70mm throttle body comes in tomorrow -- does anyone have any maps or files they are willing to share tuned for a 70mm TB ?


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> My 70mm throttle body comes in tomorrow -- does anyone have any maps or files they are willing to share tuned for a 70mm TB ?


 I'm with this guy ^ 

Everytime someone sends me maps for 70mm they never work lol. I'm pretty sure Chris never actually made one


----------



## *CHEWY (Jan 28, 2011)

Should i be running maf or mafless? 
which is better. 
i have gt3071 with 630 cc injectors and i am useing maestro 7 tuning. 
the base file i recieved i have been told is a mafless tune. 
is this correct. 

Thanks


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

...


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

...


----------



## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

opcorn:


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*CHEWY said:


> Should i be running maf or mafless?
> which is better.
> i have gt3071 with 630 cc injectors and i am useing maestro 7 tuning.
> the base file i recieved i have been told is a mafless tune.
> ...


 it must be explained 100 times in the thread. if u want a maf use it. if not you dont need to. They are mostly all mafless but if u want a maf for extra fine tuning you simply plug it in


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

630 file comes mafless you have to turn on the MAF in the diagnostic tab or you can select the 630 s4 maf file from maestro that is provided but if you have a stock maf housing use the 630 file. It is much easier to start off with a maf if you are new to tuning. Go through the thread on here or on the eurodyne forum all the informations available.


----------



## frakay100 (May 18, 2011)

*Great thread*

Guys :thumbup::thumbup: Thanks for all the effort and time that you have put into this thread. I will be moving over to M7 shortly so the info you have here has given me some good insight.

I will also contribute anything that I think of value over the coming weeks if it hasn't already been covered. Just wanted to pass on my gratitude for the chaps who have published so much useful information.


----------



## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

Got the car all converted to wideband over these last few days. All buttoned ip tonight...

Went to load the license file....was working...appeared to be....then did time out.

Went to reload the license file and got the following "error while decrypting padding is invalid and cannot be removed".
*
Not sure what to do from there....I did email eurodyne. Don't want to screw this up... Do want to hear the car run though! 

Joe


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> Got the car all converted to wideband over these last few days. All buttoned ip tonight...
> 
> Went to load the license file....was working...appeared to be....then did time out.
> 
> ...


Call them for a quicker response.


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Call them for a quicker response.


That error is cause once u start to flash a license file if something happened it could not wwork again. Since license files can only be flashed once then its no good. Call and explain hell send u another one. Happened to me


----------



## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

Got the new license, got it loaded...all went well...but now when I go to load a base tune it says that the license is not for this car and asks me to go to the flash cable menu at "add new license" for which...you need tokens for? And that I don't have...

Waiting for a response again....did call earlier...

Just want the car to run!

On another note....I have to say today after waiting for the laptop to load (no slouch...XPS M515) vs. working on the help file through my ipad2....I decided how nice it would be if we could use a tablet pc to tune with. Maestro seems that it would be very tablet friendly with all the point and click, drop, drag, histograms, etc. maybe it will be an evolution for it! 

tojr28... Did you have the problem I had above needing "tokens" when you had todo the new license file? I have followed instructions to the "t" I feel like...Chris didn't mention anything in the new email with the new license about needing to do anything additional...but thinking maybe he forgot? When you go to the "add licenses" screen, and you "add" it looks for a .tapp file....which of course you can't use since it was already flashed to the ecu I am assuming....thinking maybe that is how it works and he forgot to tell me...

Now going to try and patiently wait for an email to come through....the TT is a good looking brick in the garage at the moment.

Joe


----------



## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm using mine with a touchpad tablet for like. A year and a half now


----------



## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

codergfx said:


> I'm using mine with a touchpad tablet for like. A year and a half now


That's awesome....now if iOS was supported....


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> That's awesome....now if iOS was supported....


Better yet would be Linux support.


----------



## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> Better yet would be Linux support.


Just use "wine" to run windows programs


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

VMware Fusion for mac..i did a video of how it rules.:beer:


----------



## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Parallels FTW! Vm&Wine=Poop


----------



## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

Vegeta Gti said:


> VMware Fusion for mac..i did a video of how it rules.:beer:


Spent some of this morning looking at ways to make it work on the iPad...wish that VMware Fusion was made for iPad, but its just a VNC (or similar) style client. 

The trick would be to have a app that allows you to run windows...but more importantly...you'd need the drivers for the cable to function, etc. Eh...we will see...maybe something will come up sometime. 

In the meantime...

ITS ALIVE!!! was something stupid. I had flashed the license file on low speed but forgot to do the same for the base file....that was it. 

Any suggestions of a good basefile to use to get me up and going well...
car is a 2001 TT 225 Q ...full bolt ons, exhaust, FMIC, Forge wastegate, etc. etc. 
Also Stg 3 Snow Performance water/methanol injection...

Currently loaded the AWP Stg2 file...

Now to learn. Want to make sure the new wideband stuff is working, etc. So going to verify with VAGCOM and put it back together and go for a ride. 

Joe


----------



## *CHEWY (Jan 28, 2011)

trying to figure out my problem. 
maybe you can help me.

2002 1.8t AWP gt3071, port and polished head, 630cc, FMIC, maestro 7, with evap, n249, SAI delete with is resistored off.

the car runs super rich, when i check block 32 the only thing that shows up is 1.88% the rest is all 0

whould this be the problem and how do i get the car to run leaner. at idle it is so rich.

any help would be great

thanks


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

*CHEWY said:


> trying to figure out my problem.
> maybe you can help me.
> 
> 2002 1.8t AWP gt3071, port and polished head, 630cc, FMIC, maestro 7, with evap, n249, SAI delete with is resistored off.
> ...


Did you scan for codes? Are you running the 630cc base file without any changes?


----------



## rippinvdub (Jan 30, 2009)

*New to Maestro!! need help tuning, running rich*

Hey there everyone. I just got done buliding my 04 gli. Its bored out to a 2.0 with je pistons and scat rods,built AWP head with IE street/street cams and running 630cc injectors. I flashed the ecu with the630cc file i recieved from chris and shes running rich. You can smell it and the plugs are black and my wideband gauges shows rich as well. Im not familiar with maestro and wondering if you guys could help me with this issue. Thanks in advance for any help.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

guys

trying to start for the first time. i keep getting these codes:

Trouble code 1 ; P0261 Cylinder 1 Injector Circuit Low
Trouble code 2 ; P0267 Cylinder 3 Injector Circuit Low
Trouble code 3 ; P0270 Cylinder 4 Injector Circuit Low
Trouble code 4 ; P0264 Cylinder 2 Injector Circuit Low

went through the harness. no broken wires. im seeing voltage at each plug, and also the grounds are fine.

My bvc is set to simens 80lb/hr spec @ 39.15psi. since im running 43.5 psi, i added 11.111 percent to the spec of siemens (39.15 to 43.5 is 11.111 percent)

would a bad bvc table cause this?

can somebody share their bvc table for 80lb/hr injectors and ic figure?


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## *CHEWY (Jan 28, 2011)

sabbySC said:


> Did you scan for codes? Are you running the 630cc base file without any changes?


Yes i have scanned for codes and there none.
I have already gone through 2 set of plugs(BKR8EIX)
when i looked at block 32 the car was idleing for about 30 mins and i would go up and down on the rmp.
my actual afr matches the desired but it is very rich.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*CHEWY said:


> Yes i have scanned for codes and there none.
> I have already gone through 2 set of plugs(BKR8EIX)
> when i looked at block 32 the car was idleing for about 30 mins and i would go up and down on the rmp.
> my actual afr matches the desired but it is very rich.


Bad primary o2 sensor perhaps?


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## *CHEWY (Jan 28, 2011)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Bad primary o2 sensor perhaps?


I have check for codes and i have never had this problem untill i did all my upgrades.
like what should be AFR be at idle on a up to temp engine?

Thanks


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Rac_337 said:


> guys
> 
> trying to start for the first time. i keep getting these codes:
> 
> ...


figured out my code problem, but still no start.

how is there no basemaps for sem 80mm and 870's?

I tried a ID1000 file from sobody but same thing.

No vac leaks. fuel routing is good...cam timing is good. ugh.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> figured out my code problem, but still no start.
> 
> how is there no basemaps for sem 80mm and 870's?
> 
> ...



Did you try taking the BVC values from the AEB 830 file and calculating a new injector constant?

I would think that would be a good starting point. I think there are a few people out there with the same injectors, perhaps someone is willing to share with you their BVC and IC values.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> guys
> 
> trying to start for the first time. i keep getting these codes:
> 
> ...



u should be able to get the bvc values from the manufacturers website. bvc wont have to change just cause of fuel pressure. set it to manufaturer specs and adjust based on idle fuel trim. keep in mind when adding to the bvc table u must add the idle fuel trim percent to every value in the table at once. for example if ur idle trim is 1 percent you must multiply that number by ur injector constant then add the resulting number to the bvc table across the board. injector constant is another story. just use the injector wizard and u should be relatively close then use the long term or multiplicative fuel trim to add or subtract percent from the injector constant


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> u should be able to get the bvc values from the manufacturers website. bvc wont have to change just cause of fuel pressure. set it to manufaturer specs and adjust based on idle fuel trim. keep in mind when adding to the bvc table u must add the idle fuel trim percent to every value in the table at once. for example if ur idle trim is 1 percent you must multiply that number by ur injector constant then add the resulting number to the bvc table across the board. injector constant is another story. just use the injector wizard and u should be relatively close then use the long term or multiplicative fuel trim to add or subtract percent from the injector constant


I can't even get it to start to see if corrections are being made  will chime back in here once I figure out why it wont start and stay running. :beer:


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Is it normal to have a perfect 0.00 for corrections at idle with a afr of 12.9? or is the idle just so far off it wont even correct that much?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Check that your main/injector/flowmeter correction cells all read 1.0001

Yes if you're that far out of spec it will display zero- even if perfect it should always display a figure even if it's a decimal.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> Is it normal to have a perfect 0.00 for corrections at idle with a afr of 12.9? or is the idle just so far off it wont even correct that much?


if its zero theres a problem. you want it to be anything but zero. something isnt plugged in or resistored off right. or you have a code thrown


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> if its zero theres a problem. you want it to be anything but zero. something isnt plugged in or resistored off right. or you have a code thrown


well with a different map, it reads -20 correction. so im assuming its this other map i tried.

i'll see if i can correct the current file, if not revert back to the old map and work with it.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

just to note injector and flowmeter correction had some strange values. injector correction was all set to 1.0302


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

well for the last year ive been reeding this thread and eurodynes forum, even asked for help from time to time. i think im at the point where im just going to switch to a one tune and get rid of me7. either through eurodyne or unitronic. 
lots of great info here, just needs to be on seperate threads for each topic. :beer:


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> well for the last year ive been reeding this thread and eurodynes forum, even asked for help from time to time. i think im at the point where im just going to switch to a one tune and get rid of me7. either through eurodyne or unitronic.
> lots of great info here, just needs to be on seperate threads for each topic. :beer:


 Is something not working for you?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

just trying to adjust requested boost and bump timing....for now. sad that after a year of having this tune im still just on the base file. prolly my fault for taking on more then i cna chew by getting the me7. dyno'd last year at 360whp and i know i can get alot more out of this build. just sad that i cant figure out how to adjust these maps.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> just trying to adjust requested boost and bump timing....for now. sad that after a year of having this tune im still just on the base file. prolly my fault for taking on more then i cna chew by getting the me7. dyno'd last year at 360whp and i know i can get alot more out of this build. just sad that i cant figure out how to adjust these maps.


 are you on n75?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Rac_337 said:


> are you on n75?


 nope


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## nopantsdougie (Nov 17, 2006)

okay so i got the email with my lisence file but what do i do with it its just a sequence of numbers. i dont know where to enter it as that part of the eurodyne website is no longer there.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

nopantsdougie said:


> okay so i got the email with my lisence file but what do i do with it its just a sequence of numbers. i dont know where to enter it as that part of the eurodyne website is no longer there.


 flash you're license file to the ecu. you will be asked to enter the key provided by eurodyne. 

after this you can flash a base map of your choice.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> nope


 Requested boost is computed based on requested load. 

check this thread: http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=996 

See: increase Maximum VE. 

as for timing, just bump it up where you need too in pump gas timing map. you can set your timing for various loads with this table. 

:beer:


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Any tips on what to adjust for a SEM, 80mm and AEB head?


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## nopantsdougie (Nov 17, 2006)

okay having issues trying to get the car to idle at all. seems to be off the charts lean too. 
i have a 75mm throttle and a rmr intake manifold with small port. 
im running 630cc mafless 
trying to look in here for some answers and come to the following. 
alpha n and battery voltage have an effect on this. 
what are you guys running for battery compensation for seimens 630? 
anyone willing to share an alpha n map with me thats simmilar.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

nopantsdougie said:


> okay having issues trying to get the car to idle at all. seems to be off the charts lean too.
> i have a 75mm throttle and a rmr intake manifold with small port.
> im running 630cc mafless
> trying to look in here for some answers and come to the following.
> ...


 Its because you need a 75mm file which isnt around or you need to get a maf and uuse it to recalibrate your alpha n and throttle vs airflow tables. People ask so many times about this throttle body or this intake mmanifold. But unless your making 500 whp you prob wouldnt gain much of anything from the throttle body. Just throw the stock one on and have it run right. I finally did. And unless u mmaster maestro and tuning Ull never see the gain out of a 75mm throttle body anyways


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> Its because you need a 75mm file which isnt around or you need to get a maf and uuse it to recalibrate your alpha n and throttle vs airflow tables. People ask so many times about this throttle body or this intake mmanifold. But unless your making 500 whp you prob wouldnt gain much of anything from the throttle body. Just throw the stock one on and have it run right. I finally did. And unless u mmaster maestro and tuning Ull never see the gain out of a 75mm throttle body anyways


 There is some truth to this statement. Search through and I've covered how to get a throttle body to run. I'm running a vr6 throttle body with no issues at all. No lean issues at part throttle or anything. There is a 70 mm file and suggest you get a TB that size and request the file from chris. If not your on your own tuning airflow tables. And don't bother with a maf to populate airflow tables. When I did that the values were off. Not by a little, but so off it didn't even make sense. 

On the day O my car made an extra 4-6 horsepower peak. Not too fancy. In the mid range however I picked up anywhere from 10-25 HP. My car is around the 350whp range to give you an idea.


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## nopantsdougie (Nov 17, 2006)

honeslty im so far past putting a stock tb back on. not only that but i don't see how i wouldn't see gains from the tb or manifold. there's been clear dynos of the stock tb not flowing over 6500. my motor was built for 8000rpm+ so there's is alot to pick up from a bigger tb. i am working on getting a maf seems like i need one and tha'ts not a problem. 

im sorry for asking the same questions as other people. its hard to read all pages of a 100 page thread and not get lost. 


my car is ghost reving to 3k every 5 sec anyone know what this could be?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

nopantsdougie said:


> honeslty im so far past putting a stock tb back on. not only that but i don't see how i wouldn't see gains from the tb or manifold. there's been clear dynos of the stock tb not flowing over 6500. my motor was built for 8000rpm+ so there's is alot to pick up from a bigger tb. i am working on getting a maf seems like i need one and tha'ts not a problem.
> 
> im sorry for asking the same questions as other people. its hard to read all pages of a 100 page thread and not get lost.
> 
> ...


 Likely due to the larger throttle body. Running a maf will help but make sure you reroute the DV into the intake tract. I'm on vacation and internet time is limited. Ill walk you through what to do when I get back stateside.


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

So many pages to read through,so im just going to ask,if it's already been said...sorry:heart: 

I am interrested in buying meastro but have a few questions. 

Im from the netherlands and have an europian audi tt 1.8T from 1999 with an narrowband,but with map sensor, ecu.motorcode AJQ. 
I already have a big turbo setup(3071r,550 genesis,no maf). 
So it's already custom tuned for this set up,but i have crappy idle and suspect the bvc and ic to be the culprit,so i want to tweak it myself with maestro and other things as well. 

My questions: 

Is maestro even possible?..considering i have a europian narrowband AJQ. 

-And because its already mapped,are there problems to be found here?..like maybe protection or different files?(im just guessing) 

-is there a dealer in europe? 

thanks in advance!


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

we still dont have a 75mm file? eurodyne isnt answering as usual


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> So many pages to read through,so im just going to ask,if it's already been said...sorry:heart:
> 
> I am interrested in buying meastro but have a few questions.
> 
> ...


 You'd need to swap to wideband. The process is easy and detailed in a few threads.

Check out this one to start: http://wiki.quattroworld.com/index.php/TT.Mk1_Convert_to_Wide_Band_O2_Sensor


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Anyone know why I cant see any codes? 

I have all diag options on, and sai config off 

I unplugged my o2, and still no codes? whats the deal?


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

So...couple weeks on Maestro here. Not a ton of driving/tuning time. Spent time waiting to put the Hitachi MAF I have in the car... 

A few things though... 

Big question number 1...for a 2001 TT 225 Quattro, full bolt ons, K04, exhaust, FMIC, Stg3 WMI, etc....what is the best base tune to start out with. I did the full wideband swap, resistored the VVT, etc... 

Initially...I tried the AWP Stg 2. It honestly felt doggy to me compared to where I started (AMU APR93). 

So...I went to the BEA 225 file. MAN...it feels GREAT! I think I may have a n75 that is going south causing a couple issues with boost...but all that power I remember then some...is right there. 

Problem though... 

Getting CELs 

for VVT 
-cam retarded code 

was getting a EGT code...disabled all that stuff in diagnostics... 

So...my question is. I'm not getting the "open circuit" vvt code that would throw a CEL for VVT not being there and therefore not adapt my fuel trims, etc. However, I am getting the "others" for VVT. 

How do you "turn off" VVT completely in Maestro so that I'm not getting the CEL for it? 

Also...what are the thoughts on the best base file to start with for a k04-2x car? 

Want to really start getting into the tuning aspect, but want to get the intial things ironed out first. 

Joe


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> So...couple weeks on Maestro here. Not a ton of driving/tuning time. Spent time waiting to put the Hitachi MAF I have in the car...
> 
> A few things though...
> 
> ...


 are u sure the file u used isnt a vvt file. if so ull need vvt to make it work nice.......maybe its a cam timing fault related to your mechanical tensioner. could be a code thrown by the cm position sensor


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

It is a BEA STG1 file. The 2003 BEA engines did have VVT, so it could have VVT in there. However, I thought (according to the Maestro help file ) all the base tunes that had VVT "active" had "VVT" listed in the actual file name. I could be totally wrong there though. 

It that is the case, what should I use? AWP would have it as well. I am actually a bit surprised at the limited number of base tunes in there to be honest. I thought I would find more, but it is t that way yet. 

Anyone have any ideas? 

Joe


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

The base tune comes from you scanning your ECU and sending the file to Chris. VVT is in any tune that comes from a car with VVT, not just if its in the file name or whatever. If its for an AWP or BEA, then it has VVT. Having VVT and setting it for normal or performance use is a separate thing.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

l88m22vette said:


> The base tune comes from you scanning your ECU and sending the file to Chris. VVT is in any tune that comes from a car with VVT, not just if its in the file name or whatever. If its for an AWP or BEA, then it has VVT. Having VVT and setting it for normal or performance use is a separate thing.


 thats what i meant. i was asking if the file he selected had vvt active for performance.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> thats what i meant. i was asking if the file he selected had vvt active for performance.


 Yep BEA has VVT for performance enabled. I talk to Joe via email about it.

Not all AWP files have VVT by the way.


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

And...to my knowledge, Chris doesn't supply "base files" on the individual basis anymore. It is what you get in the maestro library itself that you have to choose from. I just put in a call to eurodyne about this actually as my "load base file" function currently is only bringing up a AWP stg3 file...and that's it. It was bringing up all the different engines with their files... 

Joe


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

What map can I adjust to set fueling for a cold start until engine gets up to temp and starts correcting? right now im correcting +/- 1% at temp, but during the warmup phase im around 13.1 afr. 

after start enrichment maybe?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

just got my car dynoed today. 

hta3082 etc 1.8 stock cams. 

dissapointed but the base file made 298whp and 277 corrected at 18psi. went to go to 26psi but the throttle body coupler blew off  

done on a mustang dyno no water meth


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

tojr1088 said:


> just got my car dynoed today.
> 
> hta3082 etc 1.8 stock cams.
> 
> ...


 Thought about it after, but maybe a little hairspray on the coupler and Tb to help it stick might work till you get a better solution. 

Car sounded great anyways


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## nopantsdougie (Nov 17, 2006)

dynotech? i was there but not with my car. i was in a silver evo with my friend in the lotus.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> It is a BEA STG1 file. The 2003 BEA engines did have VVT, so it could have VVT in there. However, I thought (according to the Maestro help file ) all the base tunes that had VVT "active" had "VVT" listed in the actual file name. I could be totally wrong there though.
> 
> It that is the case, what should I use? AWP would have it as well. I am actually a bit surprised at the limited number of base tunes in there to be honest. I thought I would find more, but it is t that way yet.
> 
> ...


 Have you changed any of the fault code settings related to the intake cam timing? There are 3-4 items in this section which you'll want to set to "0".


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Is anyone willing to share the 70mm alpha n and angle vs airflow maps? I've been working on my own but based off spartiatis approach. So far with a bit of advice and help from others, I'm getting them a bit closer, still I wouldn't mind comparing. 

Also has anyone bothered changing the injection correction tables for the EV-14 injectors? Is this assumed to be pretty much good, or should it be adjusted? In comparison to the 630cc values, these are all over the map. Just wondering if setting them to a more similar value accross the board would help with tuning in general or not.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> Is anyone willing to share the 70mm alpha n and angle vs airflow maps? I've been working on my own but based off spartiatis approach. So far with a bit of advice and help from others, I'm getting them a bit closer, still I wouldn't mind comparing.
> 
> Also has anyone bothered changing the injection correction tables for the EV-14 injectors? Is this assumed to be pretty much good, or should it be adjusted? In comparison to the 630cc values, these are all over the map. Just wondering if setting them to a more similar value accross the board would help with tuning in general or not.


 Pm me ur email I have 70mm maps that work


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Thought about it after, but maybe a little hairspray on the coupler and Tb to help it stick might work till you get a better solution.
> 
> Car sounded great anyways


 Thanks bro. Yea I'm getting a piece welded to the throttle body with a rolled bead. Doing tuning with a maf and heading back for the weekend


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

nopantsdougie said:


> dynotech? i was there but not with my car. i was in a silver evo with my friend in the lotus.


 Yea it was dynotech. Saw those 2 ccars. I was second car to run the dyno


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> just got my car dynoed today.
> 
> hta3082 etc 1.8 stock cams.
> 
> ...


 Don't worry just yet, a few more lbs and your numbers will start to go way up. I know mine didn't really start to wake up until 2o+ psi when I dynoed with the 50trim.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> Don't worry just yet, a few more lbs and your numbers will start to go way up. I know mine didn't really start to wake up until 2o+ psi when I dynoed with the 50trim.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> 
> Still low for 18psi. Its because my timing isn't running as defined in the maps. I have to figure out how to use crysers method in adjusting tthe optimum torque map and target filling to get my timing correct. I'm hoping for a little over 400 at 26 psi until I have meth


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> And...to my knowledge, Chris doesn't supply "base files" on the individual basis anymore. It is what you get in the maestro library itself that you have to choose from. I just put in a call to eurodyne about this actually as my "load base file" function currently is only bringing up a AWP stg3 file...and that's it. It was bringing up all the different engines with their files...
> 
> Joe


 are you still having this issue? i just checked and im able to see something like 15 base files for AWP. i had to completely reinstall the software before i could see any base files. odd thing is all of them are listed for use with a MAF..... i prefer to run mafless..... i wonder why there are are no mafless base files.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

you simply turn the maf files to mafless under the diagnosis tab. Just turn the maf switch to off. Maf files should already have the alpha N maps calibrated (for which ever setups tapp was working on) they probably won't be spot on to your particular setup though.


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

thanks for the heads up, i didnt notice that option. i like how much progress has been made with this software since i first got it. 

i just looked under the diagnostics tab in meastro-7 and i don't see an listing for the maf with an "on-off" option. i do how ever see there is an option under fault codes to turn the fault class to "0" for code P0101, P0102 AND P0103. are these the codes your referring to changing?


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> sabbySC said:
> 
> 
> > Don't worry just yet, a few more lbs and your numbers will start to go way up. I know mine didn't really start to wake up until 2o+ psi when I dynoed with the 50trim.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

With these files it's just as easy as plugging a MAF in or unplugging it.

If you're running a MAF you need to tune for that MAF. Carslut I know you're a TT guy, the AMU MAF is not the TT225 MAF, it's the BEA MAF-- they are different. The tuning is all under the flowmeter options.


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

i may revamp my ducting to allow for a maf soon just making sure with this latest update if i chose to start a new file i get to the right path for not having a maf in the mix at this time. i did see the pull down for different maf housing, that is really nice. being able to so easily adjust for changes makes me more comfortable going back to using a maf. thanks for all the tips, i have not had much time for tuning my car in the past 6 months now and with the software changes there are many things ill need to get up to speed on. im happy to see this software didn't die out after its first year on the market.


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Have you changed any of the fault code settings related to the intake cam timing? There are 3-4 items in this section which you'll want to set to "0".


 Doug, 

Haven't tried this...may give it a try though...I did see it there but didn't know if that would "properly" solve the issue. 

We need to talk...I'm seriously consider an upgrade...this stuff makes a build TOOO tempting... 

Joe


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

carsluTT said:


> are you still having this issue? i just checked and im able to see something like 15 base files for AWP. i had to completely reinstall the software before i could see any base files. odd thing is all of them are listed for use with a MAF..... i prefer to run mafless..... i wonder why there are are no mafless base files.


 Yep...still having same problem. 

When you say "delete all software". Do you mean just the Maestro program or all of it. Editor, Flash and the Loggers....? 

I tried removing and reinstalling Maestro itself to no avail. 

Its pretty annoying. 

An email in earlier last week...no reply 

One later in the week...no reply. Called and left a message....never have gotten anything back. 

Joe


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> Yep...still having same problem.
> 
> When you say "delete all software". Do you mean just the Maestro program or all of it. Editor, Flash and the Loggers....?
> 
> ...


 Delete the folder entirely and redownload the files. that should do it


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Did we ever determine why the EGT threshold for full load lambda is set higher in the vvt files? 

Is there any harm in lowering the number to make using the full load lambda map used earlier? I was thinking this may help make things easier, but I might be a little off path again.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

does egt threshold even matter for most cars. idk about volkswagen but for audi no b5 has egt sensors. only s4s do. what cars even use this map?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> Did we ever determine why the EGT threshold for full load lambda is set higher in the vvt files?
> 
> Is there any harm in lowering the number to make using the full load lambda map used earlier? I was thinking this may help make things easier, but I might be a little off path again.


 The VVT files use the power enrichment map for what I remember seeing. I still don't have my cable back from repair so I can't check but is there even values filled in for the full load lambda map on the VVT files as I remember it was set at such a high value that would never be hit. 

Power enrichment is a much better way to control fuel as it is not a reactive map so your fueling is there when you need it not after a threshold is met and always trying to catch up so to speak. 

Power enrichment goes of your requested torque and rpm, the smaller resolution is not a problem once you understand the map and how to use it. 

The EGT threshold is there for 2 reasons Component Protection(protection from melt down) and because of emissions(it keeps the car at 14.7 for as long as humanly possible before that threshold is hit). 

The EGT threshold has effect on timing as well as fueling, hence another reason to tune fueling with the power enrichment(LAMFA) map so you get the optimized timing and it doesn't get retarded by component protection. 

I'm pretty sure I explained all this in more detail in a few of my post if you really want more in depth information on why the EGT map is used and why tuners began to tune with it. But that's the gist of it.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Cryser said:


> The VVT files use the power enrichment map for what I remember seeing. I still don't have my cable back from repair so I can't check but is there even values filled in for the full load lambda map on the VVT files as I remember it was set at such a high value that would never be hit.
> 
> Power enrichment is a much better way to control fuel as it is not a reactive map so your fueling is there when you need it not after a threshold is met and always trying to catch up so to speak.
> 
> ...


 not maestro directly related.. as I dont know what its called in maestro vs damos original. 
there are 2 commonly used lambda control maps.. requested and actual.. LAMFA being requested afr, and as stock concession to "richer" is only last column set to 0.953 lambda vs 1.000 across the rest.. and the other is KFLBTS which also has related compensation map (which often gets set flat to stop it interfering), and a calculated egt threshold of typically 820'c before it becomes "active".. Some tuners, choose to alter the egt threshold lower so BTS is the one being used (its a better resolution map) and some others leave it at 820'c. 

the whole me7 is deisgned to operate around lambda 1.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Thanks. 

There are definately values in the full load lambda table for the vvt files. What I believe was happening to me was this. I had misadjusted the alpha n table and consequently was sitting at radically low numbers for engine load, this was making me target the wrong af values. I had looked at the full load table/egt threshold as a way to safeguard while trying to figure out what I was doing wrong.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

VVT and an EGT probe here (wideband TT225). Power enrichment map is active until that threshold is crossed. But the "wideband model" method of collecting temperatures is inaccurate on all but bone stock cars. As soon as you remove restrictions downstream, the O2 sensor is not properly guessing the upstream temperatures. So generally, the "wideband model" under-reports by a good 100˚c. 

My recommendation if you're using that modeling method: keep the ceiling no higher than 899˚.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> Doug,
> 
> Haven't tried this...may give it a try though...I did see it there but didn't know if that would "properly" solve the issue.
> 
> ...


 You can do this but its a bandaid. You have a problem. Like I mentioned previously its probably from using the wrong hardware w/ wrong file. You need to match the the cam tensioner to the tune. Using a non VVT tensioner on a VVT tune may create 2 issues. 
1) its been reported that VVT tensioners and non-vvt tensioner seem to run at a different advancement 
2) Using a non-vvt tensioner will give incorrect cam angles. Even if you set all cam advancement to 0 your still running off VVT designed torque maps. You need to get the car running off the non-vvt advanced timing maps. I'm not sure if setting the switchover point way low like 800 RPM will have any negative affects but that will switch you into the non VVT torque maps.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

DougLoBue said:


> With these files it's just as easy as plugging a MAF in or unplugging it.
> 
> If you're running a MAF you need to tune for that MAF. Carslut I know you're a TT guy, the AMU MAF is not the TT225 MAF, it's the BEA MAF-- they are different. The tuning is all under the flowmeter options.


 No default calibration for a stock sensor in a 3" housing?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I think the MAF breakdown is:

AWP - AWP MAF - ?? size = small
TT225 - BEA MAF - 70mm ID, 3" OD
3.5 Hitachi - B5 S4 Hitachi MAF - 73mm ID, 86mm OD
V8 S4- B6 S4 MAF - I have one in the garage, I need to measure it. It is NOT 4" OD more like 3.75"


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

*race gas map*

hey i was looking around and wondered if anyone would know what the acceptable octane would be for the race gas map for example would 93+meth be acceptable or does it have to be 100octane or higher?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Run 50/50 mixture water meth and log for the timing pull. That's the surest way to know if the car thinks it's "acceptable".


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> You can do this but its a bandaid. You have a problem. Like I mentioned previously its probably from using the wrong hardware w/ wrong file. You need to match the the cam tensioner to the tune. Using a non VVT tensioner on a VVT tune may create 2 issues.
> 1) its been reported that VVT tensioners and non-vvt tensioner seem to run at a different advancement
> 2) Using a non-vvt tensioner will give incorrect cam angles. Even if you set all cam advancement to 0 your still running off VVT designed torque maps. You need to get the car running off the non-vvt advanced timing maps. I'm not sure if setting the switchover point way low like 800 RPM will have any negative affects but that will switch you into the non VVT torque maps.


 Looks like that VVT tensioner I have may find its way in sooner than later...hopefully I can trust a "used" unit. 

Otherwise, the AWP file that Doug and I have been messing with is working quite nicely. Getting used to the car with no N75 and such...torque down low still feels off but I haven't had alot of time to tune either. Did get the injector constant nailed down though. 

Joe


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

I am using a awp file and my can timing map is set to 18 all the way across. I have a non vvt tensioner. If its the non vvt awp file it should be fine right? Why would they all be set to zero. I noticed my awm base file was all zeroes but Chris said I could use awp files? 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Run 50/50 mixture water meth and log for the timing pull. That's the surest way to know if the car thinks it's "acceptable".


 let me double check here do a pull with the race gas timing map with the water/meth and see if the timing pull is with in specs?


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

d18tfoltz said:


> let me double check here do a pull with the race gas timing map with the water/meth and see if the timing pull is with in specs?


 Speaking of this...I haven't even started to tune in my WMI yet with the Maestro setup...though feel pretty good about doing it now. 

That said...what have people had the best results with? I have my Stg 3 controller dialed in still from the last time around and I don't believe there will be much of a change there... 

However, when tuning it in with Maestro...traditionally in the past I used unisettings to make more of a global change to primary fueling (slight) and fuel under load (more significant) to really tune and dial in the WMI. However, these changes are more global in nature really when looking at it (and "quicktune" would serve the same purpose for quick setup). 

That said though...is that the best way to go about it. Log...look at timing, 02 values, etc. and then increase primary and fueling under load via QuickTune or should can we look at the individual fueling maps and dial it in even better? Really interested in hearing about someones experience with tuning in the WMI for the best performance. I seriously miss mine right now and I just last week FINALLY found a supplier of 100% methanol that I am now cutting on my own, 50/50 which really should be a nice improvement over spiking the wiper fluid with heat (and the blue crud that comes with it). 

Joe


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> Speaking of this...I haven't even started to tune in my WMI yet with the Maestro setup...though feel pretty good about doing it now.
> 
> That said...what have people had the best results with? I have my Stg 3 controller dialed in still from the last time around and I don't believe there will be much of a change there...
> 
> ...


 id just run the race timing map and before fueling log timing and make sure your actually getting the timing specified in the maps. if nto you need to adjust torque maps and optimum torque along with getting ur fuel trims low all around until your timing is in spec. 

then if needed you can tweak fueling on the acceleration fuel maps for loads and rpm where meth is being injected. you could use main fuel trim maps as well. theres alot of ways to get from a to b


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> No default calibration for a stock sensor in a 3" housing?


 Select the TT225 MAF from the drop-down. Your stock 1.8T sensor in a 3" MAF will read comparably. Also, be sure to restore the "flowmeter compensation table" to have value of 1.001 in all fields. Get rid of whatever altered values your map may contain.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I've been wondering how you guys have been monitoring ETG's with eurodyne logger.... From what I've seen in the logs theres no ETG readings taken so how do you set your threshold?... I know that once you chance exhaust/turbinehousing/manifold it will through off the calibration but you still kind of need to know when you pass that value so that you know when your ecu switches from power enrichment to full load lambda.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Budsdubbin said:


> I've been wondering how you guys have been monitoring ETG's with eurodyne logger.... From what I've seen in the logs theres no ETG readings taken so how do you set your threshold?... I know that once you chance exhaust/turbinehousing/manifold it will through off the calibration but you still kind of need to know when you pass that value so that you know when your ecu switches from power enrichment to full load lambda.


You would need to log this value with a measuring block. I believe there is a block for calculated EGT (and actual on EGT Audi TT's) but I don't have my laptop handy to look it up. It then be beneficial to compare to an actual EGT gauge. Most comparions I have seen show the calculated value is 140-200 degress LESS.

That being said, with an inaccurate EGT scale you will probably never see (unless you have a serious probelm) the FLL map during normal operation with an EGT threshold set 950 like the VVT maps. It should also be noted that the 950 degree EGT threshold is very close to the point where the ECM will start to dump fuel for component protection (only if EGT's exceed threshold & then exceed predetermined threshold for fuel intervention).


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> You would need to log this value with a measuring block. I believe there is a block for calculated EGT (and actual on EGT Audi TT's) but I don't have my laptop handy to look it up. It then be beneficial to compare to an actual EGT gauge. Most comparions I have seen show the calculated value is 140-200 degress LESS.
> 
> That being said, with an inaccurate EGT scale you will probably never see (unless you have a serious probelm) the FLL map during normal operation with an EGT threshold set 950 like the VVT maps. It should also be noted that the 950 degree EGT threshold is very close to the point where the ECM will start to dump fuel for component protection (only if EGT's exceed threshold & then exceed predetermined threshold for fuel intervention).


Is it calculated or looking at the lambda for temps..
the difference is plasuably the same... egt actual probe and lambda heater temp

anyone confirm myth from reality?


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

I'll tell you what...the next thing to go is SAI, EVAP and N249...which DIY have Maestro users found to be the most friendly. I'm tired of chasing leaks and looking at OEM hose prices...

By the way...if one wanted to tweak a base map with the base map still providing boost control via the N75...and tweak it for "MBC" only...how would you go about doing that? Maybe I missed it, but I'm just having some fun trying to learn a few things on this. Just to learn all the in's and outs. 

Joe


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Blow through Maf setup. What says the maestro gods on this?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Blow through Maf setup. What says the maestro gods on this?


Interested in this too I see alot of dam guys do it and whatnot. Should be ok no? As long as u have an aluminum housing instead of plastic

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> Interested in this too I see alot of dam guys do it and whatnot. Should be ok no? As long as u have an aluminum housing instead of plastic
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


Dsm guys 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I would assume doing that would shorten the life of the sensor itself why would anyone want to move it past the turbo.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Budsdubbin said:


> I would assume doing that would shorten the life of the sensor itself why would anyone want to move it past the turbo.


All the advantages of running mafless, without the disadvantages.


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## CourtX (Aug 13, 2011)

I tried to search entire 1.8T and MKIV forums and this thread for any help regarding a GT25R Turbo installed but could not find anything . I will be running 1000CC Injector Dynamics injectors and am looking for a decent base map I can use until I get my car fine tuned on a dyno. The only 1000cc base maps in Maestro for an AWP seem to be with an S4 MAF or for E85 which I have neither. If anybody has done this and can send me what they have or can give a hand I would greatly appreciate it, Thanks!


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

CourtX said:


> I tried to search entire 1.8T and MKIV forums and this thread for any help regarding a GT25R Turbo installed but could not find anything . I will be running 1000CC Injector Dynamics injectors and am looking for a decent base map I can use until I get my car fine tuned on a dyno. The only 1000cc base maps in Maestro for an AWP seem to be with an S4 MAF or for E85 which I have neither. If anybody has done this and can send me what they have or can give a hand I would greatly appreciate it, Thanks!


your gonna run 1000cc's on a gt25r lol. why. run 440's or something or 630's. and u dont have to even run a maf it says s4 maf but there are 4 options for mafs which u can see in the maestro program on the flowmeter tab.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> your gonna run 1000cc's on a gt25r lol. why. run 440's or something or 630's. and u dont have to even run a maf it says s4 maf but there are 4 options for mafs which u can see in the maestro program on the flowmeter tab.


That's what I thought. That Turbo with all supporting mods will do 280-300whp. Likely in the 260-280 range. I would sell the 1000 and go for something more appropriate like stated in the post above mine. . Unless you plan to run e85 those injectors are totally overkill.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

spartiati said:


> That's what I thought. That Turbo with all supporting mods will do 280-300whp. Likely in the 260-280 range. I would sell the 1000 and go for something more appropriate like stated in the post above mine. . Unless you plan to run e85 those injectors are totally overkill.


i know im running a 3082 and i havent even maxxed my 630's yet


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## CourtX (Aug 13, 2011)

Because I already had them haha. I was planning on doing a much bigger build with a 3071 or so, but some things came up so I went with a smaller turbo to keep the car very street-able for now and save $$. Was hoping I could still just rock it with these injectors so when I eventually follow up with my plans for doing a much bigger build I will not have to buy them again. kinda smart?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

CourtX said:


> Because I already had them haha. I was planning on doing a much bigger build with a 3071 or so, but some things came up so I went with a smaller turbo to keep the car very street-able for now and save $$. Was hoping I could still just rock it with these injectors so when I eventually follow up with my plans for doing a much bigger build I will not have to buy them again. kinda smart?


they will work just kinda overkill. just use the injector wizard and you should be fine. injectors are super easy to calibrate with maestro


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

i cant wait to get my car back from paint and get this maf on for tuning. too bad idk anyone on here whos near me to collaborate and tune each others cars. that would be cool


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## CourtX (Aug 13, 2011)

With the wizard can I use say a 630cc base file and it will correct for having 1000cc? or use the VVT 1000cc file and then use the wizard to correct for injector sizing? I did not really think I could control the valve timing on my 03 AWP motor though. I am trying to figure things out but the injector stuff is confusing me a ton right now :facepalm: Thanks for the help though so far guys!


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

CourtX said:


> With the wizard can I use say a 630cc base file and it will correct for having 1000cc? or use the VVT 1000cc file and then use the wizard to correct for injector sizing? I did not really think I could control the valve timing on my 03 AWP motor though. I am trying to figure things out but the injector stuff is confusing me a ton right now :facepalm: Thanks for the help though so far guys!


if u have a car with vvt then use the vvt file. if u read this forum all your questions would be answered. 

if u select a 630 file then all u do is go into maestro under the injector wizard tab and it will change your injector constant. i cant re explain whats explained a dozen times already


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

If running an AEB head and AWP block in a car that was originally AWP what map would you use? 
I got the 870 AWP base map from Chris but am wondering about the AEB file... 
Also, any way to compensate for the increased displacement of a stroker motor? 

I am running VVTless, MAFless, emissions and EVAP are deleted.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

hootyburra said:


> If running an AEB head and AWP block in a car that was originally AWP what map would you use?
> I got the 870 AWP base map from Chris but am wondering about the AEB file...
> Also, any way to compensate for the increased displacement of a stroker motor?
> 
> I am running VVTless, MAFless, emissions and EVAP are deleted.


:facepalm:

you cant run an aeb file. you need to use the awp file.

if u wanna compensate for mods on the awp motor such as aeb head and stroker you have to do it in maestro. you have to tune yourself. thats the point of maestro.

start by running a maf first of all so that you can recalibrate your airflow tables and alpha n from the increased airflow. and also look at fuel trims which wont be accurate until you recalibrate those tables. 

seems like alot of people are getting in over their head :banghead:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

tojr1088 said:


> :facepalm:
> 
> you cant run an aeb file. you need to use the awp file.
> 
> ...


I was just asking some questions. My main concern right now is getting the base file to idle good and run well enough to get things broken in. 
Any links with explanations on all of these tables would be awesome. I want to learn. That is why I purchased maestro


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Blow through Maf setup. What says the maestro gods on this?


Waste of time IMO. Someone made the comment 90% of cars don't need this, I say the figure is 99% of cars. You do not need to reinvent the intake tract on a 3-500HP car. MAF's work fine on almost every other 600HP DSM, Corvette ETC. MAF's work even better used in a dual config system like the 1.8T uses. I understand the concept and certainly its better for accuracy but inaccurate MAF's (on properly setup hardware) are not the reason for drivability or power limitations. If your trying to extract every last bit of HP on a maxed out setup yeah it might be worth it but your just going to create more headaches w/ tuning (75mm tb?)


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

I know its alot but read from page one. Its described in good detail

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Waste of time IMO. Someone made the comment 90% of cars don't need this, I say the figure is 99% of cars. You do not need to reinvent the intake tract on a 3-500HP car. MAF's work fine on almost every other 600HP DSM, Corvette ETC. MAF's work even better used in a dual config system like the 1.8T uses. I understand the concept and certainly its better for accuracy but inaccurate MAF's (on properly setup hardware) are not the reason for drivability or power limitations. If your trying to extract every last bit of HP on a maxed out setup yeah it might be worth it but your just going to create more headaches w/ tuning (75mm tb?)


Many guys with the aforementioned cars run blow through setups, and the size of the t/b shouldn't cause any more hurdles than it already does. Given the added accuracy inherent in a blow through system; once the maf is calibrated correctly in the mapping, it should make tuning everything else that much easier.

The argument that something isn't beneficial, because the current system works doesn't cut it IMO. Guys said the same thing about the original REVO BT software. Then what happened? Guy Frieling in Australia came up with the tuning system that Eurodyne, Unitronic, and Custom Code of the UK use; which allowed for mafless tunes, and later paved the way for Eurodyne Maestro. The likes of which have been used in other tuning circles for over a decade, but like usual the VW/Audi community were slow to catch on.

This is obviously the case with blow through setups as well; assuming history has taught us anything.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Many guys with the aforementioned cars run blow through setups, and the size of the t/b shouldn't cause any more hurdles than it already does. Given the added accuracy inherent in a blow through system; once the maf is calibrated correctly in the mapping, it should make tuning everything else that much easier.
> 
> The argument that something isn't beneficial, because the current system works doesn't cut it IMO. Guys said the same thing about the original REVO BT software. Then what happened? Guy Frieling in Australia came up with the tuning system that Eurodyne, Unitronic, and Custom Code of the UK use; which allowed for mafless tunes, and later paved the way for Eurodyne Maestro. The likes of which have been used in other tuning circles for over a decade, but like usual the VW/Audi community were slow to catch on.
> 
> This is obviously the case with blow through setups as well; assuming history has taught us anything.



http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1393784


347whp GT28RS tuned by Guy Frieling


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

I am pretty sure Guy Frieling is from Israel, not that it matters


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

18T_BT said:


> I am pretty sure Guy Frieling is from Israel, not that it matters


Meh.. Israel, Australia what's the difference?


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Up for more blow through maf talk

...PAGING CRYSER...


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Up for more blow through maf talk
> 
> ...PAGING CRYSER...


i really dont see why it wont work. as long as u run an aluminum maf housing to take say high boost levels then it should read good. from what ive read though you need straight section before and after with no reducers near the maf. for example if u had a 3.5 inch maf the ideal thing to do would be to run 3.5 inch piping before and after the maf for at least 4 inches. also some people just take the maf sensor out of the housing and put it directly to the intercooler pipe. 

the only thing would be maybe the maf doesnt last as long and ud definately want your pcv routed elsewhere or at least to a catch can


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> All the advantages of running mafless, without the disadvantages.


Yet your still running a maf?  The only advantage I would see is to have a more simple intake setup but you will have to modify your charge piping so in reality I don't see the advantage...


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> :facepalm:
> 
> you cant run an aeb file. you need to use the awp file.
> 
> ...


If you run a AEB head on a AWP block with the VVT swapped over, you can run the vvt file correct?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> If you run a AEB head on a AWP block with the VVT swapped over, you can run the vvt file correct?


correct as long as you have the VVT tensioner in the head you can use the VVT file as far as I know.

As for the blow thru MAF set up I'm not all that read up on the subject yet but it does interest me so when I get some time I'm gonna be doing some research on the subject. Just been a busy couple of months for me lately and as my cable is still out for repair with Arnold and my engine build is literally a few parts away from being done and able to go in the car my focus has really shifted to that. BUt I'm gonna start looking up how the evo and dsm guys go about doing it and what they have to change in their software and see if I can transfer what they are doing to translate to what we have to modify within maestro.

dubbinsinceyouwereindiapers does make a good point though, it's not one of those subjects that really can be answered with the whole "90% of people don't need it." That kind of thinking promotes stagnation in the brand and we as tuners and enthusiasts should always be looking to promote evolution and pushing this stuff to the limit. We have the tools to implement blow thru MAF set ups as far as I can tell, we just need to come together and figure out how.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

I knew you'd "get it" Cryser:beer:

And kudos for typing out my entire username


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I still don't see the difference between pre and post turbo maf locations. Why would there be any benefit?


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Cryser said:


> correct as long as you have the VVT tensioner in the head you can use the VVT file as far as I know.


cool. will try it tonight.

optimum timing map 1 is vvt off, and optimum timing map 2 is vvt on?


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Real dsm guys use map sensors instead of maf sensors. "speed density" I have a friend that is a Dsm tuner and fan and that is what he has on his 500hp galant vr-4 and all of his customers cars that he has tuned.


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## carcraz (Jan 25, 2011)

can i used maestro tuning suite for passat B5 year 2000 model?
as their website states for only 2001/2003 only
possible?
tq


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

So i used Mescaline's TB and alpha tables for AEB head + 80mm + SEM mani.

It didnt work to well at first. ended up being super lean. This is with a file that has all main fuel corrections at 1.0001.

I noticed that the BVC values the wizard had set we're quite a ways off the spec sheet for 870cc injectors.

since the calibration data from siemens was for 39.15 PSI, I took those values, added 11.111 percent to it (39.15 -> 43.5 = 11.111%) and volia. warmup was a hair rich, but it settled down at +/- 3% correction. no rev hang while blipping the throttle, no leaning out, nada.

Now I plan on using 02 correction percentage applied to optimum torque, as per Cryser's method. 

i'll post a log tomorrow.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Rac_337 said:


> So i used Mescaline's TB and alpha tables for AEB head + 80mm + SEM mani.
> 
> It didnt work to well at first. ended up being super lean. This is with a file that has all main fuel corrections at 1.0001.
> 
> ...


Would you mind sharing those files?
The RMR manifold should be similar. 
I need to pick up the 80mm


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

hootyburra said:


> Would you mind sharing those files?
> The RMR manifold should be similar.
> I need to pick up the 80mm


sure. but this file is still preliminary. just figured out the idle so far. i haven't driven around with it yet as my car is still missing an exhaust and front rotors.

test pilots welcome before i try it lol 

you could probably use this and adjust main fuel correction for now until i can get a soild opt tq map created for this setup.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

WiKKiDTT said:


> Real dsm guys use map sensors instead of maf sensors. "speed density" I have a friend that is a Dsm tuner and fan and that is what he has on his 500hp galant vr-4 and all of his customers cars that he has tuned.


We do use speed density. When our maf is unplugged that's what it reverts too.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

blow-thru maf worked for me back in the day. :beer:


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Question for Cryser or anyone with practice tuning via opt engine torque:

When adjusting optimum tq map, it was mentioned something about interpolation.

for example if my correct value at 15% filling and at 1000 rpm was 6.7846, and at 2000 rpm was 7.8864, I would interpolate for the missing 2 data points between those two correct?

example:

X1 = 1000 (rpm)
X3 = 2000 (rpm)
X2 = 1240 (rpm)


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Also, should alterations made to optimum torque also be made to target filling? 

I've read that:

"any changes made to KFMIOP (optimum tq) should be reflected in KFMIRL (target filling) and vice versa. If the difference is too large, problematic operation/torque intervention will be experienced. It is accepted that this can be achieved by scaling the load axis instead of altering individual table addresses. Inverse in this sense is assumed to mean ‘complementary’, not the exact arithmetic inverse."


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> Also, should alterations made to optimum torque also be made to target filling?
> 
> I've read that:
> 
> "any changes made to KFMIOP (optimum tq) should be reflected in KFMIRL (target filling) and vice versa. If the difference is too large, problematic operation/torque intervention will be experienced. It is accepted that this can be achieved by scaling the load axis instead of altering individual table addresses. Inverse in this sense is assumed to mean &#145;complementary&#146;, not the exact arithmetic inverse."


I don't think Ull have to touch the target filling. It acts almost as a cap to your toque level. If ur engine load increases farther tthan it specifies at any rpm I believe ud can just raise it more

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> I don't think Ull have to touch the target filling. It acts almost as a cap to your toque level. If ur engine load increases farther tthan it specifies at any rpm I believe ud can just raise it more
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


Sweet. that makes life easy. :beer:

My next question is if power enrichment map is target lambda before egt threshold is met, why do the load values in the first column start at 99% torque demand?

is this map only active onces 99% torque demand is met and below set egt threshold? how come the vvt file PE map looks so different from a non vvt map? I figured whatever the map may be you would want to use PE from the get go untill switching to full load lambda.

must...read...more... 



cheers :beer:


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> Sweet. that makes life easy. :beer:
> 
> My next question is if power enrichment map is target lambda before egt threshold is met, why do the load values in the first column start at 99% torque demand?
> 
> ...


I think because power enrichment map is only for above 100 percent load. When the power really starts. Below 100 percent u really don't need to be below 14.7. Do t quote me tho

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> I think because power enrichment map is only for above 100 percent load. When the power really starts. Below 100 percent u really don't need to be below 14.7. Do t quote me tho
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


incorrect, the reason power enrichment starts at 99% is because it isn't a map bosch wanted to use for the general populace. You have to change the % torque axis to values between 0-100% if you wish to do fueling this way.

The axis is the output value of the acceleration pedal map.

From the factory the power enrichment map isn't used as the % torque axis is just a jumbled mess effectively "disabling"(not truly but effectively) the map, this was done for emission reasons as bosch wanted the car to stay at 14.7 for as long as possible. Then they use the lambts(full load lambda in maestro) to dump fuel for overheating protection of the various components.

This is the main reason I don't like that "Style" of tuning it's reactive based on the threshold which becomes inaccurate the second you change the exhaust diameter or other things upstream, power enrichment is proactive and changes fueling based on what you are requesting.

If you adjust target filling your going to have to readjust opt torque, I suggest you get to the targets you want with target filling(if you want more boost in an area raise target filling) then correct the opt torque maps for the change you made in target filling.

If you are set on your target filling maps then just adjust opt torque so that the car is "okay" with your target filling requests.

The target filling is the request, the opt torque is the check or "goal" of the engine. If you were to just raise target filling and not touch opt torque then the ecu would fight itself to get back down to the goal of the value in the opt torque map, that's why you need to adjust both. BUT if you have a modified target filling map like the base tunes in maestro, I just suggest getting opt torque so the car isn't fighting itself(hesitation, trying to close the TB etc) THEN begin to raise target filling and in turn again raise opt torque if you wish more power are certain levels of load.

As for the mathematic way that Rac_337 brought up, yes that works in theory but in the real world your always going to have to fine tune the points by "feel", that the art behind tuning.

You can get extremely close with that method but you are limited by the defined points on the axis so in reality with datalogs you can just adjust those defined points and the interpolation should take care of itself since we can not actively map out every single rpm on the maps.

I believe it was a PM with you that I described how to transpose a main fuel correction map trace to the opt torque maps, but I'll share the idea here if it wasn't.

Basically since you can't trace the opt torque map with the histogram but you CAN trace the main fuel correction map you can do this to get a good starting point and clear up some issue you may have with hesitation.

if you fill the main fuel correction map with 1.001 then go data log and trace the histrogram for the main fuel correction map in average mode you can transpose the adjustments to your opt torque map. Making sure of course your correcting the right cells,I believe the rpm axis on both maps doesn't line up directly. This is give you a great start on adjusting your opt torque maps I did this a few times with out any additional input on my behalf and the car ran better with less problem area's each time.

Tuning is a mixture of science and art, you can use math and such to get VERY close but at the end of the day what separates the good from the great is those final touches that you do by driving the car and "feeling" where slight corrections need to be made that really stand out, always remember that.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Cryser said:


> incorrect, the reason power enrichment starts at 99% is because it isn't a map bosch wanted to use for the general populace. You have to change the % torque axis to values between 0-100% if you wish to do fueling this way.
> 
> The axis is the output value of the acceleration pedal map.
> 
> ...


Thanks for correcting. 

Say in my case of not running off n75 tho. Can't I just adjust optimum torque map and not worry about target filling. If I never reach the values I should be good right. Considering my boost can't get cut by the ecu? 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> Thanks for correcting.
> 
> Say in my case of not running off n75 tho. Can't I just adjust optimum torque map and not worry about target filling. If I never reach the values I should be good right. Considering my boost can't get cut by the ecu?
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


I've never tuned without using the N75 controlling boost but the ecu can and will start to close the throttle plate if you senses an overboost condition that it can't control with the N75. So I would assume you would need to match the boost curve of your boost controller with what the ecu is "requesting" in order to stop that from happening. I don't believe this happens are full throttle but at partial throttle it does I know that for a fact.

So to answer your question you could just work in the opt torque map as long as it matched the curve being produced by your outside boost controller is my guess but I don't know for sure.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Cryser said:


> I've never tuned without using the N75 controlling boost but the ecu can and will start to close the throttle plate if you senses an overboost condition that it can't control with the N75. So I would assume you would need to match the boost curve of your boost controller with what the ecu is "requesting" in order to stop that from happening. I don't believe this happens are full throttle but at partial throttle it does I know that for a fact.
> 
> So to answer your question you could just work in the opt torque map as long as it matched the curve being produced by your outside boost controller is my guess but I don't know for sure.


exactly what i figured. every mbc or ebc causes the part throttle on/off throttle feeling. wot is the same but part throttle boost is like a on/off feeling. 

i wanted an n75 but couldnt get it to stop spiking no matter what i adjusted. althought it did perform alot smoother part throttle


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

HI
new maestro user, after my first week with the software i noticed few things
car is Seat Leon 2003,AUQ Originally with AGU head+VVT and stock big port intake manifold
and stock TB.
1781cc (stock with Pauter rods)
630cc @ 3bar , walbro 255
gt3082,tial 38mm and equial Length tubular manifold
AEM W/M injection and more
stock AUQ maf sensor in TT\VR housing

first flash i did was "Stage 3 AWP 630CC vvt"
disconnected maf sensor because i dont have appropriate profile for it
car runs horrible,idle was from top lean to top rich (aem W\B gauge)
even when driving at steady rpm (2-3k~) i went on and off from top lean to top rich
i checked on vcds block 91,94 and vvt working and no errors,
plugged maf sensor and tried all profile and it didnt helped

my second flash was AWP 630 S4 MAF and my maf plugged in
and guess what ?
car stand solid 14.7 at idle
driving at steady rpm was very close target (14.7)
and wot till red line .79-.81 lambda and no knock at all, pump gas map almost steady 23-25 timing advance
so i compared between the vvt and non vvt base maps and saw there is big differences at almost all maps
especially on fuelling maps :
VVT :
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/awp630vvt.jpg/

non VVT
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/awp630.jpg/

tried to copy past all related maps from non vvt to the vvt file 
but still car runs like ****
going back to non vvt file untill i find what the problem is


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Leon mk1 said:


> HI
> 
> first flash i did was "Stage 3 AWP 630CC vvt"
> disconnected maf sensor because i dont have appropriate profile for it
> ...


I have a pretty similar hardware setup to you. Big port AEB head with VVT module swapped in and I experience the exact same issue. When I contacted Eurodyne support they weren't aware of the issue and don't have any other cars experiencing it. I was sent a test VVT file that did the same thing just not as violently. If I leave the car doing that eventually it stalls out on it's own. I have tried both the Hitachi 3.5 and V8 S4 sensor housings and MAF elements both brand new with no luck. I have no idea what's going on here.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Leon mk1 said:


> HI
> new maestro user, after my first week with the software i noticed few things
> car is Seat Leon 2003,AUQ Originally with AGU head+VVT and stock big port intake manifold
> and stock TB.
> ...



Try VVT flash with the MAF plugged in and enabled?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

WiKKiDTT said:


> Real dsm guys use map sensors instead of maf sensors. "speed density" I have a friend that is a Dsm tuner and fan and that is what he has on his 500hp galant vr-4 and all of his customers cars that he has tuned.


All my non-real DSM friends use MAF+MAP.


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

gdoggmoney said:


> Try VVT flash with the MAF plugged in and enabled?


on the vvt file i tried all options
maf\less
and all maf profile

i am sure it has something to do with the fuel maps
but even when i copy past all maps from non vvt to vvt file i didn't helped
i just flashed the 630cc non vvt and car runs great


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Leon mk1 said:


> on the vvt file i tried all options
> maf\less
> and all maf profile
> 
> ...


It seems like it has to do more with injector timing than the fuel maps. The fuel maps are just a target lambda right?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Whats your injector constant? and bvc values? Keep your fueling maps shouldn't effect idle too much unless your mafless which you've tryed the maf already. If your IC and BVC's are in check I would try throwing in an O2 sensor for the hell of it.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I'm using my BVC values and injector constant from my non-VVT AWP file that runs perfectly. Also on my car 02 is brand new about a few hundred miles ago- I replace them pretty often.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> exactly what i figured. every mbc or ebc causes the part throttle on/off throttle feeling. wot is the same but part throttle boost is like a on/off feeling.
> 
> i wanted an n75 but couldnt get it to stop spiking no matter what i adjusted. althought it did perform alot smoother part throttle


Maximum VE would ultimately limit your requested boost I think via limiting torque. it is defined by Bosh as "LDRXN maximum cylinder charge for charge pressure control" and "LDRXNZK maximum cylinder charge for charge pressure control under knock".

the Max VE tables are like a cap to your target filling i believe. 

I know that Requested boost is computed based on requested load, so in order to have a MBC or EBC work well for higher boost levels, more load must be request to match what is actually being produced in charge pressure.

I believe this can be done by a) modifying target filing to end at higher torque value and b) raising maximum VE to that those values can be reached.

these are just theories, please correct me if im mistaken. :beer:


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> All my non-real DSM friends use MAF+MAP.


I had non-real friends before too. They make a pill to fix that problem. 

What type of maf are they running because the stock maf is only good for 275-315 whp. And that's pushing it. GM mafs are normally what most of them use with a maf translator. 

Normally you use a maf with map to gain drive ability on the street because the tuner can't tune them right with using only speed density. 

Theres a lot of information on ECMtuning if you wanna read about it.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

If your actual calculated engine load is overshooting your spec then theres your problem... Other than that if you can post some logs that would help aswell.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

how are you guys going about timing increases? are you increasing the whole map by small amounts until you start seeing knock, then reducing where it needs to be reduced?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> how are you guys going about timing increases? are you increasing the whole map by small amounts until you start seeing knock, then reducing where it needs to be reduced?


That's what I do. I raised it alot below 3500 rpm for more cruising power since my Turbo doesn't hit till 4k. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> That's what I do. I raised it alot below 3500 rpm for more cruising power since my Turbo doesn't hit till 4k.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


cool man. thanks! i'll try it this way. :beer:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Rac_337 said:


> Maximum VE would ultimately limit your requested boost I think via limiting torque. it is defined by Bosh as "LDRXN maximum cylinder charge for charge pressure control" and "LDRXNZK maximum cylinder charge for charge pressure control under knock".
> 
> the Max VE tables are like a cap to your target filling i believe.
> 
> ...




Can This guy post both logs, and his target filling/n75 duty cycle maps
.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

need some input. weird stuff here.......

so a customer of mine i just finsihed a car with and its 30r aeb head etc etc 2001 awm ecu. 

so i noticed when we drove the car doesnt really go when u give it gas and noticed that fter 2k rpms the timing goes to 0 and says there. in nuetral reving the motor wont give any advance whatsoever until you let off the gas or let it idle again. 

then i found out my friend who just flashed his software has the same problem with his. my car works perfectly so i tried my file and still no help. 

im stumped. figured its gotta be something on chris's end with maybe a corrupted intitial file but hopefully i can get help tommorow.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> need some input. weird stuff here.......
> 
> so a customer of mine i just finsihed a car with and its 30r aeb head etc etc 2001 awm ecu.
> 
> ...


Email Chris.... I wanna say its some kind of "safe" mode. Mine did that way back and he sent a new file to flash. Solved that.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

spartiati said:


> Email Chris.... I wanna say its some kind of "safe" mode. Mine did that way back and he sent a new file to flash. Solved that.


Yep. That it is, and if you run an MBC or something that's not N75 related your going to burn stuff and warp things fro High EGT's .


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Email Chris.... I wanna say its some kind of "safe" mode. Mine did that way back and he sent a new file to flash. Solved that.


Fixed. Switching wasn't set to active. Chris emailed me a key to set it active. All is well

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> Yep. That it is, and if you run an MBC or something that's not N75 related your going to burn stuff and warp things fro High EGT's .


Wasn't safe mode. It was switching not set to active. I shut the car off due to the manifold glowing red at idle and boost at idle lmao. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Heres a question anyone get a bogus MAF reading like 500+ to 600g/s on a stage 2 setup based on my logs. Not only that but what happened to the race gas and pump gas maps? As well as the VVT control map isn't there? Why isn't there a overall timing advance map? I'm kinda stumped from the last time I worked with this program.:banghead:


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

I get 0 degrees of timing at idle. Even though I have some at the load spec and rpm. But when driving and wot it is dead on. What gives. Mine is set to active switching. Someone have a idea?


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Heres a question anyone get a bogus MAF reading like 500+ to 600g/s on a stage 2 setup based on my logs. Not only that but what happened to the race gas and pump gas maps? As well as the VVT control map isn't there? Why isn't there a overall timing advance map? I'm kinda stumped from the last time I worked with this program.:banghead:


you sure it was set to g/s? Default logging is in kg/hr


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Really? Maybe that's what my issue is crap I forgot to switch it.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Regardless what is the deal with the cam position 1 and 2 timing maps. There isn't a cam timing map showing when VVT is enabled to tell me which map I have to apply the timing correction too. I'm not even 100% sure this thing even has VVT enabled.

Also do any of you feel as though the timing correction for air temp maps are a bit on the safe side as far as the stage 2 file goes. I see that the intake temps hit around 58C and it starts pulling 6 degrees of timing before knock correction. I feel like this is a bit much for 58 degress C at 5k rpm. As far as that map is setup it shows that even at 40+ degress it will pull -1.5 degress and I used to get those temps running water/meth over summer....


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

WiKKiDTT said:


> I get 0 degrees of timing at idle. Even though I have some at the load spec and rpm. But when driving and wot it is dead on. What gives. Mine is set to active switching. Someone have a idea?


0 at idle could be normal. Mine fluctuates from -2 to 3 at idle

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

*let me know what you think*

i have aeb head ie spring/retainer set, st valves, sem intake, 80mm tb, cts 750hp fmic, w/m(not on right now), pte 5857jb, now that thats out of the way im trying to fine tune my car and need a little help. i have my fuel trim to 0.58 -0.75 which is good and trying to figure out where to go to next. i have a couple logs here i couldnt go above 6000rpm due to speed limit but from what i see i have no timing pull but my o2 correction is going crazy dont know why? also my engine load actual vs spec is a little off. any suggestions/comments are welcomed
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aik8R7O0bI0CdF9LT0Y1bUI2eXRXLXdLMW1BMWJHWVE#gid=0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aik8R7O0bI0CdDd5MXF2Z1FySkxWYjlSZXJVcFJab3c#gid=0


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

d18tfoltz said:


> i have aeb head ie spring/retainer set, st valves, sem intake, 80mm tb, cts 750hp fmic, w/m(not on right now), pte 5857jb, now that thats out of the way im trying to fine tune my car and need a little help. i have my fuel trim to 0.58 -0.75 which is good and trying to figure out where to go to next. i have a couple logs here i couldnt go above 6000rpm due to speed limit but from what i see i have no timing pull but my o2 correction is going crazy dont know why? also my engine load actual vs spec is a little off. any suggestions/comments are welcomed
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aik8R7O0bI0CdF9LT0Y1bUI2eXRXLXdLMW1BMWJHWVE#gid=0
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aik8R7O0bI0CdDd5MXF2Z1FySkxWYjlSZXJVcFJab3c#gid=0


Its probably cause u have a 80mm throttle body

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> Its probably cause u have a 80mm throttle body
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


what is because the 80mm, the weird o2, the load specs? do you know what i could do to help with those?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

d18tfoltz said:


> what is because the 80mm, the weird o2, the load specs? do you know what i could do to help with those?


The 02 readings. The load specs are usually always off. Don't worry about that.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> The 02 readings. The load specs are usually always off. Don't worry about that.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


Email me your logs my email is [email protected] 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

d18tfoltz said:


> i have aeb head ie spring/retainer set, st valves, sem intake, 80mm tb, cts 750hp fmic, w/m(not on right now), pte 5857jb, now that thats out of the way im trying to fine tune my car and need a little help. i have my fuel trim to 0.58 -0.75 which is good and trying to figure out where to go to next. i have a couple logs here i couldnt go above 6000rpm due to speed limit but from what i see i have no timing pull but my o2 correction is going crazy dont know why? also my engine load actual vs spec is a little off. any suggestions/comments are welcomed
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aik8R7O0bI0CdF9LT0Y1bUI2eXRXLXdLMW1BMWJHWVE#gid=0
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aik8R7O0bI0CdDd5MXF2Z1FySkxWYjlSZXJVcFJab3c#gid=0


can you enable sharing on the logs. right now they are private and cannot be viewed.


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> can you enable sharing on the logs. right now they are private and cannot be viewed.


here they are again not sure what happened i had to upload them agian to google? 

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2rCumnFN5VbbXNCM3UxX3hVbUE
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2rCumnFN5VbSkR2YkxEVHZlTUU


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> Email me your logs my email is [email protected]
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


e-mail sent


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

ok dyno used was a hub dyno(wheels come off and it attatches to your hubs. never seen this before) numbers will appear to be really low: 309whp and 267wtq were my best numbers with the 18% conversion would put me to 365whp and 315wtq. I went to adjust a few things with the help of www.VEMS.com and it would not allow me to save the new file. any help here would be greatly appreciated, as you will see there is a major dip in afr.
all these pulls were in 3rd gear. i also have data logs of each run

engine mods are as follows:
GT3071R w/ vband discharge
Eurodyne 630cc mafless file(with maestro7 suite)
mounting stud kit
Tial MVS WG 1 bar (38mm)
3inch downpipe w/ dump tube and clamp
SEM 80mm intake manifold
75mm TB from INA
custom (purple) cams from bobq
super tech valve springs form bobq
rods form integrated engineering
ACL rod bearings(w/tang)
Piston rings OEM set 
Supertech Inconel Exhaust Valve set
Supertech SS Nitrided Intakes Valve set 
custom port and polish
snow performance stage2 water/meth
walbro 255 inline fuel pump to go with apr intank fuel pump
greddy profec bspec type 2 elctronic boost controller.
arp head bolts 
hot deck and plain


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

*maf monitoring*

ok i have another issue i was trying to figure how to adjust the alpha n and throttle angle vs. airflow considering i have a mafless tune. my question is how can i get the value from the maf w/out hooking the maf to the ecu last time i tried that may car ran like poo. is there a program i can get to where i can use the maf kinda like a stand alone maf so i can get the values for alpha n and throttle angle vs. airflow? if anyone has any experiance with this please chime in or a file tuned for a sem mani and 80mm tb and would be willing to share would be great.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> ok dyno used was a hub dyno(wheels come off and it attatches to your hubs. never seen this before) numbers will appear to be really low: 309whp and 267wtq were my best numbers with the 18% conversion would put me to 365whp and 315wtq. I went to adjust a few things with the help of www.VEMS.com and it would not allow me to save the new file. any help here would be greatly appreciated, as you will see there is a major dip in afr.
> all these pulls were in 3rd gear. i also have data logs of each run
> 
> engine mods are as follows:
> ...


can you post the logs?


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

d18tfoltz said:


> here they are again not sure what happened i had to upload them agian to google?
> 
> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2rCumnFN5VbbXNCM3UxX3hVbUE
> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2rCumnFN5VbSkR2YkxEVHZlTUU


fueling is definitely way off.

try importing the alpha and tb maps i sent you on your current file and then try that.

99% sure your over correcting so much because of you 80mm tb.

what other mods you have? head, intake mani, etc?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Rac_337 said:


> can you post the logs?


i can try


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

whats the best place to upload them photobucket isnt working


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

google documents


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdFBqNmZ5UWRiaXA2REV6M2lZeWR3Wnc#gid=0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdFBqNmZ5UWRiaXA2REV6M2lZeWR3Wnc#gid=0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdHN5UTBnUDZiOE52dHl1a0hYaGFNRXc#gid=0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdEJWRWNaM1FqRmZYRGlackk3OWU3UVE#gid=0


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

we tried to adjust a few things but the files kept coming up as i need to email eurodyne, then asked for some credits.....not sure what that was about. so we tried quick tune. brought timing +7.5 and started working it down. end up at +3


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Guys I have a quick question is there any direct relation between main fuel correction and alpha n? Because I have to compensate about 20-25% on main fuel correction for top end fueling. Would that mean I need to just increase alpha n map in those cells by about same percentages? I'm running maffless on e85


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

codergfx said:


> Guys I have a quick question is there any direct relation between main fuel correction and alpha n? Because I have to compensate about 20-25% on main fuel correction for top end fueling. Would that mean I need to just increase alpha n map in those cells by about same percentages? I'm running maffless on e85


I've gone through exactly whats happening to you. If you're not running out of fuel, you need a MAF to make it work.

Refer to my thread for 02 corrections by different boost levels:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5497325-Big-turbo-build-take-two/page6

I'm running e85 as well, at 20psi I was seeing +10 correction. At 30psi seeing +20 correction and the car was going lean (.95 lambda sometimes 1.0). Added a MAF and the fuel trims fall right into line.

I feel like there are many parts of the ECU that Maestro doesn't allow us to edit. I've changed both power enrich & full load lambda to all 1.0 values and my car still requests .82 under full boost. It might be the best solution out now to run custom software without going standalone but it's still highly restrictive. I need to be able to edit the actual fuel map to make this run as lean as e85 wants to run while cruising/accelerating.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

DougLoBue said:


> I've gone through exactly what happening to you. If you're not running out of fuel, you need a MAF to make it work.


My fuel trims were all over. Put a MAF in? Suddenly all is well. Surprise!


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> I've gone through exactly whats happening to you. If you're not running out of fuel, you need a MAF to make it work.
> 
> Refer to my thread for 02 corrections by different boost levels:
> 
> ...


Well see my fuel is spot on soon as I hit boost my corrections are +-5 but I did that using main fuel correction map. And that's with running varying boost 10-27 psi and full load lamba to request the needed afr with conjunction of power enrich map for partial throttle. I have it run 11.8 afr soon as it hits full boost.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

codergfx said:


> Well see my fuel is spot on soon as I hit boost my corrections are +-5 but I did that using main fuel correction map. And that's with running varying boost 10-27 psi and full load lamba to request the needed afr with conjunction of power enrich map for partial throttle. I have it run 11.8 afr soon as it hits full boost.


Yep my issues were all in boost too but I don't use the main fuel correction map at all.

You should be running leaner under boost. E85 knocks when rich not lean. Full power should be .82 to .85.


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> fueling is definitely way off.
> 
> try importing the alpha and tb maps i sent you on your current file and then try that.
> 
> ...


not sure why its overcorrecting so much since my fuel trims are good 0.58 -0.75, mods are aeb built head, sem intake, 80mm tb, 870cc siemens, and a lot of others if you need anything else let me know.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

d18tfoltz said:


> not sure why its overcorrecting so much since my fuel trims are good 0.58 -0.75, mods are aeb built head, sem intake, 80mm tb, 870cc siemens, and a lot of others if you need anything else let me know.


Omg. Its because of your throttle body end of story. Your fuel trims will be low cause your car will adapt on most cruising situations for the extra air. But then when you go wide open the air difference becomes alot more drastic. The car can only run good wide open or cruising. Until you adjust your alpha n map properly. You have the answer. Now go get a maf and do it

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> Yep my issues were all in boost too but I don't use the main fuel correction map at all.
> 
> You should be running leaner under boost. E85 knocks when rich not lean. Full power should be .82 to .85.


I've ran it 11.8 - 12 afr upwards 30+ psi on my 50 trim and had no knock


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

anyone got any suggestions for help on my tune? :beer:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

SGTphatboy said:


> anyone got any suggestions for help on my tune? :beer:


No way to do much without having chris unlock the software for you. Using the quick tune is a temporary bandaid.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

spartiati said:


> No way to do much without having chris unlock the software for you. Using the quick tune is a temporary bandaid.


I emailed Mr. Tapp 2 days ago and hae not heard back.............


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

anybody else noticed something weird about power enrichment map ?
its last update (3.1.6) on AWP 630CC S4MAF non vvt base file









if your eyes cant see - the red line is in this order :
99.5990 108.8374 139.6015 144.6038 147.6039 100.3803

also i have another question
why the 630cc base files are diffrent from vvt to non vvt ?
non vvt:









vvt:









my car is with agu head and vvt tensioner
but it runs better with the non vvt file


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Leon mk1 said:


> anybody else noticed something weird about power enrichment map ?
> its last update (3.1.6) on AWP 630CC S4MAF non vvt base file
> 
> 
> ...


PE is effectively not enabled for whatever reason

to enable it rescale the axis


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> I emailed Mr. Tapp 2 days ago and hae not heard back.............


call him :beer:


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

I have noticed the same differences and you are right the VVT base file doesn't work as well as the NonVVT file. The engine load calculation (without MAF) is way off -> huge O2 corrections (somtimes -15% or +15%... I don't know if it can be solved by changing the Target Filling or the Optimum Engine Torque maps. I don't like the fuel correction maps (MainFuelCorrection and InjectionCorrection maps) way of fixing this knowing that a wrong engine load calculation has also an impact on the computed advance timing.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

NeverGiveUp said:


> I have noticed the same differences and you are right the VVT base file doesn't work as well as the NonVVT file. The engine load calculation (without MAF) is way off -> huge O2 corrections (somtimes -15% or +15%... I don't know if it can be solved by changing the Target Filling or the Optimum Engine Torque maps. I don't like the correction maps way of fixing this knowing that a wrong engine load calculation has also an impact on the computed advance timing.


MAF. Just do it. 

You have people posting in here and otherwise that have disassembled ME7, and looked at the execution flow.

These people have no financial incentive to say something works great, and sell it, when the hardware requires a MAF as it's major load determination. 

Search for Rarak69's posts.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

Friend brought my attention here, yea search what i said about how a load signal is acquired in the ecu.


Im looking at what you said, are you talking about converting a NON VVT car to VVT? or are you talking about enabling VVT outside of factory specification?

im willing to help if i can, however i am NOT a maestro user so i am not aware of his labelling, however i can likely figure it out by looks alone as i am very familiar with maps and this ecu.


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

RaraK69 said:


> Friend brought my attention here, yea search what i said about how a load signal is acquired in the ecu.
> 
> 
> Im looking at what you said, are you talking about converting a NON VVT car to VVT? or are you talking about enabling VVT outside of factory specification?
> ...


I have swapped the NonVVT tensioner (from my original AVC engine) to the VVT tensioner (as I swapped my AVC ECU to the AWP ECU which is needed to be used to run Maestro7) and I'm now using the VVT maestro file to make it works. The VVT feature itself is working fine (you can read my posts on the "VVT to make power thread".
However, I would like to understand which maestro maps would have to be updated (if available in Maestro) in order to have a correct Engine Load value knowing that this data is probably one of those most important information in this type of ECU to compute injection time and advance timing. My both fuel trims are near 0% however, the O2 correction is soemtimes -15% or +15% depending on rpm and Engine Lod. I will post a log later today as soon as I'm back at home.
All of this without MAF. I know that a MAF would wolve the issue but I already broke an engine due to a bad MAF and I would prefer not to use it anymore.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

:beer:


Rac_337 said:


> call him :beer:


ok will do when i get out of work, thanks again for the help bud


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

NeverGiveUp said:


> I have swapped the NonVVT tensioner (from my original AVC engine) to the VVT tensioner (as I swapped my AVC ECU to the AWP ECU which is needed to be used to run Maestro7) and I'm now using the VVT maestro file to make it works. The VVT feature itself is working fine (you can read my posts on the "VVT to make power thread".
> However, I would like to understand which maestro maps would have to be updated (if available in Maestro) in order to have a correct Engine Load value knowing that this data is probably one of those most important information in this type of ECU to compute injection time and advance timing. My both fuel trims are near 0% however, the O2 correction is soemtimes -15% or +15% depending on rpm and Engine Lod. I will post a log later today as soon as I'm back at home.
> All of this without MAF. I know that a MAF would wolve the issue but I already broke an engine due to a bad MAF and I would prefer not to use it anymore.


Logs will be useful, the oscillations in multiplicative trim can be from a few things, usually its a load issue, and can be fixed by properly setting up KFMIRL, KFMIOP. (optimal torque and load maps) post logs and pictures of both of those maps.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

RaraK69 said:


> Logs will be useful, the oscillations in multiplicative trim can be from a few things, usually its a load issue, and can be fixed by properly setting up KFMIRL, KFMIOP. (optimal torque and load maps) post logs and pictures of both of those maps.


Thanks for your help- I'll be following this since I'm having the same issue with the VVT tune. At idle it will swap between -20 correction all the way to +20 until it stalls itself out. I have not tried VVT with my MAF though- I haven't finished my DV install so that isn't possible yet.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

so exchanged a few emails tith Mr. Tapp, and solved the editing the flash issue, but when i asked him about how to fix my afr problem and actually getting some power out of this build ......ive yet to recieve a response. this is seriously getting ridiculous. he sells a product yet gives you no info on how to work with it. just expects you to figure it out and or rely on people you have never met before...............seriously frustrated

might be selling my mafless 630cc me7 soon

any help would be nice


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> so exchanged a few emails tith Mr. Tapp, and solved the editing the flash issue, but when i asked him about how to fix my afr problem and actually getting some power out of this build ......ive yet to recieve a response. this is seriously getting ridiculous. he sells a product yet gives you no info on how to work with it. just expects you to figure it out and or rely on people you have never met before...............seriously frustrated
> 
> might be selling my mafless 630cc me7 soon
> 
> any help would be nice





Yep. And he calls the ecu tables what he wants, without letting you know anything.

The emperor wears no clothes. I ditched it. If anything I would get further with free tools and ecu definitions from nefmoto. At least you can read the funkshramen.

A little birdie tells me Modassport documentation may have clues. Oh wait that's what I had to read to get my maestro car to not foul plugs daily


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

My current setup:

Stock displacement
GT2871R 0,86A/R turbine housing
AGU ported head with supertech valves
stock cams
stock pistons
pauter rods
FMIC
630cc Siemens at 3bars
SEM IM
Stock TB
ATP exhaust manifold
3" full exhaust without CAT
No MAF
VVT tensioner
Maestro7 NonVVT or VVT file

Here are some logs (all in 4th gear):

MainFuelCorrection and InjectionCorrection maps are all set to 1.0000 (no correction).
Fuel trims are both near 0%.

Raw data from my last pull May 1st with VVT intake advance activated up to 5300rpm.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuW23KAbeHCjdDJFYl9pc0hzcjdnSDRkUGVnV1JaTEE


Comparisons with some other previous setups:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuW23KAbeHCjdGVDZ0RkSXRqQ0xuMXgxVkE5VTctMFE


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

Can you see those graphics from my 2nd link?


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

NeverGiveUp said:


> Can you see those graphics from my 2nd link?


yes.

whats going on? looks not half bad.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> ok dyno used was a hub dyno(wheels come off and it attatches to your hubs. never seen this before) numbers will appear to be really low: 309whp and 267wtq were my best numbers with the 18% conversion would put me to 365whp and 315wtq. I went to adjust a few things with the help of www.VEMS.com and it would not allow me to save the new file. any help here would be greatly appreciated, as you will see there is a major dip in afr.
> all these pulls were in 3rd gear. i also have data logs of each run
> 
> engine mods are as follows:
> ...


how much psi was this? what CR are you running? im assuming your injectors are 630's..

and why are you shutting it down at ~6000 with all that head work? you can take that to at least 7200 with that head setup. plus the cams will help fatten up the power up top. 

you're not even waking up that engine 

hard to tell whats going on with the dip without looking at the map. internet tune diagnostics are tricky lol


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

Rac_337 said:


> yes.
> 
> whats going on? looks not half bad.


Yes the overall results are ok but when you are looking at the O2 corrections more in details you can see in this last pull from May 1st that this O2 correction can go up to +18% and I think this is due to a bad EngineLoad calculation (no MAF). That's why I would like to know which map(s) would have to be updated using Maestro to fix this issue.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Rac_337 said:


> how much psi was this? what CR are you running? im assuming your injectors are 630's..
> 
> and why are you shutting it down at ~6000 with all that head work? you can take that to at least 7200 with that head setup. plus the cams will help fatten up the power up top.
> 
> ...


im running 630's at 23psi would have gone higher if and when i actually see some decent numbers for a change, 309whp out of what ive done is just straight disapointing. if i cna figure out the afr issue then i cna bring it back to the dyno next week.

do you want me to send you my map as well?
thank you again for the help:beer:


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

NeverGiveUp said:


> My current setup:
> 
> 
> Raw data from my last pull May 1st with VVT intake advance activated up to 5300rpm.
> ...



looks very good
Although you runing mafless,wish my car will idle like that and low rpm cruising like that
big port head with vvt
630cc
gt3082
what did you changed from the base file ? 
share some if you like


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

Leon mk1 said:


> looks very good
> Although you runing mafless,wish my car will idle like that and low rpm cruising like that
> big port head with vvt
> 630cc
> ...


Not too much things:
If you run the stock TB, with the following IC and BVC and this by unplugging the MAF, I'm pretty sure your idle will be fine.


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

RaraK69 said:


> Logs will be useful, the oscillations in multiplicative trim can be from a few things, usually its a load issue, and can be fixed by properly setting up KFMIRL, KFMIOP. (optimal torque and load maps) post logs and pictures of both of those maps.


Which load maps are you talking about? Have you had a look at those logs?


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> im running 630's at 23psi would have gone higher if and when i actually see some decent numbers for a change, 309whp out of what ive done is just straight disapointing. if i cna figure out the afr issue then i cna bring it back to the dyno next week.
> 
> do you want me to send you my map as well?
> thank you again for the help:beer:


yeah man send the map. that way i can do my best cross reference it and see whats going on with the logs you sent. :beer:


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

*Optimum Engine Torque*

Here is the Optimum Engine Torque from the VVT base file:


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

NeverGiveUp said:


> *MainFuelCorrection and InjectionCorrection maps are all set to 1.0000 (no correction).
> Fuel trims are both near 0%.*



well thats the issue likely, you arent all over the place, i was expecting much worse! 

you are a few percent here and there, you need to adjust your correction maps for the little bit of change you see.

I tune to say within 3% personally 

You need to change fuel correction map without a doubt on 630's


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

RaraK69 said:


> well thats the issue likely, you arent all over the place, i was expecting much worse!
> 
> you are a few percent here and there, you need to adjust your correction maps for the little bit of change you see.
> 
> ...


These O2 corrections are no directly linked to the 630 injectors. The proof of this is that there are not too much O2 correction with the non VVT file and those same injectors. The engine load calculation is really much more accurate with the non VVT file compared to the VVT file (it is veruy similar to the torque curve). The engine load calculation is still off even when I use all those Maestro7 maps coming from the nonVVT file in the VVT file. I'm going to play with OptimumEngineTorque map to see if it has a direct impact on the Engine Load -> O2 correction.

What are those Load maps you are talking about?


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

edit i found pics of what what


you need to make sure

target filling
and
optimal engine torque

are inverse of each other, unless you have torque managment disabled(which you probably wont know) but make them inverse anyways.

your optimal timing maps will then scale out from your optimal engine torque map as well(shares same axis)


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

RaraK69 said:


> edit i found pics of what what
> 
> 
> you need to make sure
> ...


Thanks for those advices. I will try not to change the breakpoint table values but the map values themselves then.
Do you confirm that the OptimumEngineTorque table is the one to update in order to change the computed engine load values when the MAF is not used?

It is possible to deactivate the TorqueControl but I don't know the consequences from this:


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

both of said maps need to be modified and inverse of each other, not just one.

but yea you can use torque map alone for some small tweaks i suppose, never needed too.. Or you can use pedal map values to for some torque control


Can you post both of those exact maps, or cut and paste values and send them i can run them through my calculator.


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

RaraK69 said:


> both of said maps need to be modified and inverse of each other, not just one.
> 
> but yea you can use torque map alone for some small tweaks i suppose, never needed too.. Or you can use pedal map values to for some torque control
> 
> ...



Here is the Target Filling map:









and its values:
0,0000 15,0941 26,1334 37,6649 49,0323 59,6028 70,1265 82,9705 95,8145 108,7523 121,7135 149,7688 183,6836 196,9026 211,9967 241,4817 
0,0000 14,1566 24,9380 36,2586 47,3682 58,1731 68,8843 80,8377 92,9551 105,6819 118,5260 145,4797 173,8865 189,2853 208,9263 241,4817 
0,0000 13,6644 23,6958 34,3835 45,4932 56,6965 67,9468 79,4079 90,9160 103,0569 115,5259 140,7686 166,4567 185,5821 204,9887 241,4817 
0,0000 12,9612 22,6177 33,7038 45,4932 56,6028 67,2905 78,4939 89,8613 101,4397 113,1821 136,7842 160,6675 181,7617 204,9887 241,4817 
0,0000 12,8206 22,3130 33,0007 43,9228 54,5871 64,9701 75,1891 85,2440 95,3458 106,1507 128,0184 151,6673 179,9804 204,9887 241,4817 
0,0000 13,1253 22,7583 33,1648 43,9931 54,4465 64,4311 74,4625 84,5643 94,6661 105,1897 126,4011 149,6516 179,9804 204,9887 241,4817 
0,0000 12,6800 21,9848 32,2976 43,1728 53,8371 64,1264 74,3219 84,3299 94,3614 104,6038 125,1589 147,1203 179,9804 204,9887 241,4817 
0,0000 11,8596 20,5317 31,9694 42,6337 53,0636 63,0013 73,0094 83,2518 93,4707 104,3225 126,1668 147,4719 179,9804 204,9887 241,4817 
0,0000 12,6096 21,8677 32,1569 42,4228 52,5949 62,5326 72,5406 82,8768 93,2129 103,5256 124,1276 147,6828 179,9804 204,9887 241,4817 
0,0000 12,8206 22,0786 31,5944 41,6962 51,8449 62,1576 72,3765 82,2908 92,1817 102,5178 123,5651 147,9172 179,9804 204,9887 241,4817 
0,0000 12,3050 21,2114 30,7975 41,2509 51,7277 62,2513 72,4703 81,8221 91,1504 101,5569 123,8464 146,2062 179,9804 204,9887 241,4817 
0,0000 12,0003 20,6958 30,4460 40,7821 51,0714 61,1029 71,1109 81,0252 90,9394 101,1115 121,8073 142,0108 179,9804 204,9887 241,4817 
0,0000 11,7424 20,2036 30,4225 40,6884 50,9542 61,1497 71,2984 81,2595 91,1973 101,1584 121,0573 140,7921 179,9804 204,9887 241,4817 
0,0000 11,7424 20,2270 29,8600 39,6102 49,3604 59,9075 70,5015 80,4158 90,3066 100,1975 119,9322 139,9717 179,9804 204,9887 241,4817 
0,0000 11,4377 19,6645 30,1178 39,7977 49,4776 60,6341 71,5562 80,9080 90,2597 99,8459 119,6041 141,3780 179,9804 204,9887 241,4817 
0,0000 12,3050 20,0864 30,3053 39,9852 49,6651 60,5169 71,2281 80,5564 89,9082 99,6818 120,2135 143,4640 179,9804 204,9887 241,4817 

I already posted a pic from the Optimum Engine Torque map but find below the values:
0,0000 5,2693 11,1841 18,5256 27,8709 39,2502 52,8942 66,4024 83,0358 98,5201 99,4540 
0,0000 5,1136 10,9124 18,2372 27,6206 39,0702 52,8118 66,3703 83,0358 98,6025 99,7836 
0,0000 5,0221 10,8148 18,1350 27,4085 38,8489 52,6577 66,2940 82,9885 98,5018 99,3273 
0,0000 5,0083 10,8636 18,1441 27,2208 38,5574 52,4166 66,1521 82,9350 98,5933 99,9179 
0,0000 5,0038 10,9094 18,1609 27,0758 38,2629 52,1037 65,9568 82,8374 98,4743 99,4189 
0,0000 4,8679 10,6866 17,8557 26,7386 37,9028 51,7512 65,7340 82,7107 98,4758 99,7134 
0,0000 4,6741 10,3478 17,4834 26,5112 37,7975 51,6017 65,5371 82,5520 98,3950 99,7409 
0,0000 4,5444 10,1555 17,3644 26,6150 38,0096 51,6170 65,3937 82,2621 98,1157 99,5837 
0,0000 4,6543 10,4485 17,8847 27,3032 38,6139 51,9344 65,4150 81,8867 97,6548 99,3655 
0,0000 5,1060 11,3214 19,0277 28,4111 39,4379 52,4624 65,6943 81,8653 97,4931 99,2739 
0,0000 5,7103 12,4430 20,4438 29,7204 40,4558 53,2009 65,7080 82,2224 97,5236 99,2587 
0,0000 6,2108 13,3342 21,5303 30,7581 41,3348 53,8297 65,8774 82,0805 97,0139 99,2571 
0,0000 6,5114 13,7950 22,0827 31,3975 42,0413 54,3943 66,1445 82,0637 96,9376 99,2648 
0,0000 6,6976 14,0194 22,2903 31,7072 42,4686 54,7620 66,2681 81,7753 97,2398 99,3533 
0,0000 6,8746 14,2422 22,5039 31,9346 42,6471 54,8612 66,2666 81,3480 96,9529 99,4387 
0,0000 7,0272 14,4711 22,7572 32,1559 42,8043 54,9925 66,3917 81,5098 97,1436 99,5242 


Let me know if you can't read the breakpoint tables from those 2 pictures.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

RaraK69 said:


> edit i found pics of what what
> 
> 
> you need to make sure
> ...


Are u sure they have to be inverses. Cause I just adjusted my optimal torque to dial in fuel trims and left my target filling alone and everything is good. I only adjusted target filling in places where I overshot the target engine load. My timing and fuel is great now. Of course my alpha n is dialed in perfectly as well. I k ow the two tables are inverses but I didn't.notice any ill effects. I'm also not using an n75 either. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

whats the preferred MAF size for the 3071R/50trim/3076R??

b5 S4 Maf and element?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

RaraK69 said:


> both of said maps need to be modified and inverse of each other, not just one.
> 
> but yea you can use torque map alone for some small tweaks i suppose, never needed too.. Or you can use pedal map values to for some torque control
> 
> ...


I really tend to stay away from using the main correction map for tuning. I stick with the Optimal torque (driver requested torque) and target filling maps (ability for the engine to meet requested torque) to tune for fueling. These maps are/tend to be inverse of eachother (for obvious reasons) but I've modified them individually before with no problems.

Oh and what do you mean run them through your calculator??? Is there some sort of way to calculate these values? I wasn't aware that there was a way.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

screwball said:


> whats the preferred MAF size for the 3071R/50trim/3076R??
> 
> b5 S4 Maf and element?



correct.


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

yes they should be rather inverse by bosch specs, you DONT NEED to make them inverse, but close is good.

You can adjust target filling up a decent amount higher(20%) rule of thumb in the last 3 columns without scaling out your optimal torque map. 

i wanted to make sure the maps were good and close enough and not all wild. Its very difficult for me to be looking at the maestro software though, im used to winols 

dialing in with the optimal torque map is an option, however injectors are still not dialed in appropriately, which is a big issue. injectors must be calibrated for mafless very well.(Proper) 

ill put it like this, I never have to adjust the optimal torque map for fueling. Properly calibrated injectors will work the magic. 


Hands down, what nobody understands is, ME7 is NOT for mafless tunes, period. Tuning mafless is a hack for the ecu any which way you cut it, and well never be perfect. I know you need to work out perfect injection, if you need to tweak some spots i suppose you can use optimal torque map

maf size of 3" is pretty acceptable 450hp, if you peg maf you can adjust with map KFLF for fueling above and beyond maf signal(kind of a hack but works great)


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

which map is KFLF? And what did you mean by calculating those values? I was unaware there was a way to do that.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

NeverGiveUp said:


> Here is the Target Filling map:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know if you can't read the breakpoint tables from those 2 pictures.


looks decent.

So you have your injector table flattened out at 1.001 accross the board right now?

i would work your injection correction or main fueling correction(KFLF)

i read on the eurodyne forum where they have all the maps labelled with pictures, says you can log and apply histogram to KFLF map? dude, thats sweet! give that a whirl, if you have issues after that then work on optimal torque map, thats the last step in the process i would take after adjusting fuel injection.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

Budsdubbin said:


> which map is KFLF? And what did you mean by calculating those values? I was unaware there was a way to do that.


main fueling correction per this page

http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=689


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I'm not sure if the tracer works properly on the injection correction map but it does with Main fuel. I was under the assumtion that the only way to populate that map is to get those values from the manufacturer. Other than that I don't see a way of calibrating that table because I believe that table is there because of the nonlinear reaction of the injectors there isn't a log value taken (under our maestro logger) to populate this table. I don't understand how you would with 02 correction.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

RaraK69 said:


> Can you post both of those exact maps, or cut and paste values and send them i can run them through my calculator.


What did you mean by this??? I was unaware of a way to calculate and calibrate the target filling and optimum torque maps.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

Budsdubbin said:


> I'm not sure if the tracer works properly on the injection correction map but it does with Main fuel. I was under the assumtion that the only way to populate that map is to get those values from the manufacturer. Other than that I don't see a way of calibrating that table because I believe that table is there because of the nonlinear reaction of the injectors there isn't a log value taken (under our maestro logger) to populate this table. I don't understand how you would with 02 correction.


map is for ms/rpm and correction based on that, 630's i have had to increase a fair amount of the values to make it right.

the main fueling is load/rpm 

by what im seeing on that page of what you can adjust with the maestro software, i would go with what you say to make correction to main map, correct the torque map after that if needed.

like i said, more than acceptable is +-3% even 5% is acceptable, but 3% is like perfect in all reality.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

Budsdubbin said:


> What did you mean by this??? I was unaware of a way to calculate and calibrate the target filling and optimum torque maps.



i have my own tools of the trade for this to get you a nice start


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/vetable.htm Something like this???


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> Are u sure they have to be inverses. Cause I just adjusted my optimal torque to dial in fuel trims and left my target filling alone and everything is good. I only adjusted target filling in places where I overshot the target engine load. My timing and fuel is great now. Of course my alpha n is dialed in perfectly as well. I k ow the two tables are inverses but I didn't.notice any ill effects. I'm also not using an n75 either.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2





RaraK69 said:


> both of said maps need to be modified and inverse of each other, not just one.
> 
> but yea you can use torque map alone for some small tweaks i suppose, never needed too.. Or you can use pedal map values to for some torque control
> 
> ...


They are inverse. but they are COMPLEMENTARY. They dont have to match. You can dial one and not the other and be ok, as long as they are not too far apart.


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

RaraK69 said:


> looks decent.
> 
> So you have your injector table flattened out at 1.001 accross the board right now?
> 
> ...


The answer to your question is YES injector table flattened out at 1.001.

I can confirm that we can apply histogram to the MainCorrection map but that we can't with the InjectionCorrection map.

But I repeat, I would prefer to find a way to adjust the EngineLoad value instead of using the MainFuel/Injection correction maps.


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

It is also possible to apply histogram to the OptimumEngineTorque map. That's what I 'm going to try next to see if it changes the EngineLoad and so the O2 correction. However, it is not possible to apply the histogram to the TargetFilling map.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I wouldn't use the tracer to apply correction values... You should use the tracer to follow and make corrections + or - 1% until you start understanding how much that will effect your o2 correction then you'll be able to guess how much a value will effect o2 correction.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> They are inverse. but they are COMPLEMENTARY. They dont have to match. You can dial one and not the other and be ok, as long as they are not too far apart.


Thanks that's what I thought

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Quick question what is the difference between overrev fault limiter vs rev limiter in me7? ones fuel cut other spark cut? or one throws a fault code? reason im askin seems like this act clutch doesnt like to go into gears well after 7k so im gonna lower them to 7.1k and wondering if they have to have something different.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

codergfx said:


> Quick question what is the difference between overrev fault limiter vs rev limiter in me7? ones fuel cut other spark cut? or one throws a fault code? reason im askin seems like this act clutch doesnt like to go into gears well after 7k so im gonna lower them to 7.1k and wondering if they have to have something different.


The overev fault limiter throws a fault when u pass that rpm. If ur car has a problem shifting after 7k you may have a syncro problem. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Rac_337 said:


> yeah man send the map. that way i can do my best cross reference it and see whats going on with the logs you sent. :beer:


ok sending now


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> The overev fault limiter throws a fault when u pass that rpm. If ur car has a problem shifting after 7k you may have a syncro problem.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


Naw it's every gear and based on my research it's ACT clutch lockout seems like. I replaced multiple parts including main master, slave and now have a new clutch master , ss clutch line. And its alot better then before but still not as good as my previous clutch delayed shifts, doesn't grind anymore though. Thanks for the reply on the rev limiters though.


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

NeverGiveUp said:


> Not too much things:
> If you run the stock TB, with the following IC and BVC and this by unplugging the MAF, I'm pretty sure your idle will be fine.


i flashed my ecu with the same values on the pictures above and disconnect maf sensor
and still car idle and cruise with afr side to side

returned to non vvt file and tt225 maf profile, connected AUQ engine code maf in tt\vr housing and its run perfectly


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Leon mk1 said:


> i flashed my ecu with the same values on the pictures above and disconnect maf sensor
> and still car idle and cruise with afr side to side
> 
> returned to non vvt file and tt225 maf profile, connected AUQ engine code maf in tt\vr housing and its run perfectly


Under cruise conditions I believe it's normal for it to fluctuate slightly mine idles between 14.5-15.3 no MAf here


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

Leon mk1 said:


> i flashed my ecu with the same values on the pictures above and disconnect maf sensor
> and still car idle and cruise with afr side to side
> 
> returned to non vvt file and tt225 maf profile, connected AUQ engine code maf in tt\vr housing and its run perfectly



Did you do a ThrottleBody Adaption before starting the engine? Is your IM leak free?


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

Budsdubbin said:


> I wouldn't use the tracer to apply correction values... You should use the tracer to follow and make corrections + or - 1% until you start understanding how much that will effect your o2 correction then you'll be able to guess how much a value will effect o2 correction.


Yes actually that's what I'm going to do. Anyway I'm more interested in the Engine Load changes than O2 correction as I think that the O2 corrections are a consequence from a bad Engine Load calculation.


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

yes i did TB Adaptation
and put new spark plugs as well 

while cruising the afr was from top 11 afr to 16-17 always also at idle plus rpm up and down

i saw it didn't work well so i swapped to non vvt file and its worked perfect
so no leaks either, vacuum\exhaust.


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

Leon mk1 said:


> yes i did TB Adaptation
> and put new spark plugs as well
> 
> while cruising the afr was from top 11 afr to 16-17 always also at idle plus rpm up and down
> ...


Are you using all the exact same maps in the VVT file compared to your nonVVT file?


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

not really
at first i just copy past only fueling maps
ill try to copy past *all* maps available from non vvt to vvt file and update soon

update:
did a copy past for all maps from non vvt to non vvt 
at the begining the car idle was graet and cruise was very good
but after 10 min it was back to be jumpy and afr were all around 
after 30 min driving block 32 was 0.75 1.5
when the AC is working at idle it is rock solid 14.6-14.8 and rpm solid to
but after turning off the AC its back to be no good
so i flashed again the non vvt file until ill find the problem


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Im at work so i cant check, can anyone tell me eurodyne has a scale for the audi A8 MAF?


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Leon mk1 said:


> not really
> at first i just copy past only fueling maps
> ill try to copy past *all* maps available from non vvt to vvt file and update soon
> 
> ...




What does an A/C compressor do?

It increases load.......... I know the ECU has an input for the A/C being on as well, or it is at least aware.


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

some how with the AC on the idle is prefect even at 800 rpm

i tried to raise idle load
map description is "idle torque" ?
at the non vvt file i bumped it a little so my idle was almost perfect
so i saved this map and copy\past it to the vvt file as i did with all other maps
didn't helped...
and besided the idle my cruise is not well either


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Leon mk1 said:


> some how with the AC on the idle is prefect even at 800 rpm
> 
> i tried to raise idle load
> map description is "idle torque" ?
> ...


The A/C compressor changes the load. There's also an input and the ECU is aware the A/C compressor is in. You can see this in vag-com. So your doing something that is fixing your problem, albeit a band aid way.


Hey, your A/C being on may make you spool faster!


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

Yes i did feel it spools fester
Thats exacly what i need with my gt3082 ar.82

Maybe the problem is the big port head ?
Any change should be done on base file for big
Port head and intake manifold ?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Anyone know why minimum injector pulsewidth are set lower on the vvt files than the non vvt files for the ev14 injectors?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Probably because those settings suited the particular car that VVT file was built on. If the other settings worked for you, import them into the VVT one.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

going to adjust some lambda and fueling tomorow, will run some logs and then post them.....wish me luck


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

some great conversations about things in the last few pages. The more I keep looking at things, reading through things...the more I feel like I am learning about Maestro. There is so much...

That said...doing some fine tuning on my own but believe a faulty brand new 02 sensor had gummed a few things up for me on my end. 

That said...given that we have the ability to switch maps on most ECU's using Maestro ...do you think it is possible that in the future we will be able to "switch maps" based through say...the cruise stalk, etc. like APR? That'd be a pretty neat thing to be able to add to Maestro...or to even on/off a couple other things (like launch control/no lift shift....). 

Just a thought. Maybe Mr. Tapp is listening. 

Joe


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

adjusted lambda through quick tune plus 2.8736 something like that, just under 3. will try to get some logs tonight or tomorrow. and post the date.

afr problem go away so i can make some power


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

RAC_337 hooked me up so tomorrow will reload my tune and run some logs


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> RAC_337 hooked me up so tomorrow will reload my tune and run some logs


yeah see how it goes. i just used main fuel correction to remove that dip. if that works we can start turning everything up so you can make the power you should be making :beer:


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Rac_337 said:


> yeah see how it goes. i just used main fuel correction to remove that dip. if that works we can start turning everything up so you can make the power you should be making :beer:


bout to have my first kid man so if this all works, gonna name her after you ...lol j/k but i want to say i really appreciate all the help.
headed out there in a couple to load her up


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm in need of some help. Here is a log of a 3rd gear pull. I'm getting timing pull but I don't really know why. Any input is greatly appreciated.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApWYP2uwiRBidGRlRGFidkdfcGY1VFY1VXFVRnc1RFE

Also today I had a P0172 (bank 1 rich) and a P0606 (system fault) show up. Car is running fine in general. AF's seem to be good, so I don't know what is up. Let me know what you think, as I'm lost. I'm thinking maybe I have a coil or plug problem, so next I will go remove the plugs and inspect.

Here are the plugs, 10k miles, .025 gap


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## AzDubbin1.8t (Apr 20, 2007)

Im kinda new to eurodyne.. I was trying to use my flash loader and it says I have to go to the eurdyne site to update the flash loader.. So I looked under hidden page where you go to download the programs and I dont see any update flash loaders only the one from 2010... How do I update it then?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

AzDubbin1.8t said:


> Im kinda new to eurodyne.. I was trying to use my flash loader and it says I have to go to the eurdyne site to update the flash loader.. So I looked under hidden page where you go to download the programs and I dont see any update flash loaders only the one from 2010... How do I update it then?


enable pop ups on your coputer
by opening your eurodyne flash a pop up should appear in which it will tell you to up date to 4.0.3(for example) you click update and it will unistall the old version, then a new pop up will appear and you will load new patch.


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## poopie (Feb 22, 2005)

anyone have a mafless 630 awp file?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

sabbySC said:


> I'm in need of some help. Here is a log of a 3rd gear pull. I'm getting timing pull but I don't really know why. Any input is greatly appreciated.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApWYP2uwiRBidGRlRGFidkdfcGY1VFY1VXFVRnc1RFE
> 
> ...


A few observations...

* Your timing pull is starting around 4200 RPM / 20 PSI boost.
* Your AFR is absolutely crazy. I'm thinking you have something wrong with your oxygen sensor/ circuit/ something like that. I'd seafoam test and check for any pre-o2 exhaust leaks.










My version of your log
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9842192/Sabby/2012_5_20-11.3.9.DataLog.xlsx


...

...

In comparison, here's a graph of my lambda from recently. Notice how the lambda curve kinda swoops down from high to low through the RPM band, this is how it should be. I'm thinking that you should contemplate a new front o2.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Thanks grog, i'll have a look at swapping the O2. I seafoamed last week and found the only leak I have to be a small leak at the slip pipe (to the wastegate) on my CTS setup. Other than that there were no leaks. I'm not sure how to even really fix the leak I've got short of having it welded (which would make the pipe next to impossible to remove).

What are you using to convert the logs into the format you posted?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

sabbySC said:


> Thanks grog, i'll have a look at swapping the O2. I seafoamed last week and found the only leak I have to be a small leak at the slip pipe (to the wastegate) on my CTS setup. Other than that there were no leaks. I'm not sure how to even really fix the leak I've got short of having it welded (which would make the pipe next to impossible to remove).
> 
> What are you using to convert the logs into the format you posted?


I'm using Excel 2007.

I posted up the excel file I made in that post...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9842192/Sabby/2012_5_20-11.3.9.DataLog.xlsx

If you want to double check for exhaust leaks the best trick I've learned is to lightly pack a rag in your tail pipes while the seafoam is blowing out. It creates enough back pressure that the seafoam is VERY visible coming out of any leaks upstream.

If you're running an EBC or MBC I'd recommend bringing the boost way down til you get this sorted. No need to flog the car while it's not running right.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

groggory said:


> I'm using Excel 2007.
> 
> I posted up the excel file I made in that post...
> 
> ...


Can I see the log data from your log files? I've noticed that there are other log files out there showing the same fluctuations in af ratio from different maestro users. I"m taking it easy on the boost for now until I can get a handle on what is going on.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

sabbySC said:


> Can I see the log data from your log files? I've noticed that there are other log files out there showing the same fluctuations in af ratio from different maestro users. I"m taking it easy on the boost for now until I can get a handle on what is going on.


I'm on Unitronic. I was just showing you what a normal AF ratio looks like.

Sorry, you'll need to find another Maestro user who's willing to share some log files.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

I've seen a few log files from other users that are similar, as well as some that show less fluctuation. 

I was just curious to know wether the sampling rate is any different. Are you running mafless? I wonder if that has any bearing on the varied log files I've seen.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

sabbySC said:


> I've seen a few log files from other users that are similar, as well as some that show less fluctuation.
> 
> I was just curious to know wether the sampling rate is any different. Are you running mafless? I wonder if that has any bearing on the varied log files I've seen.


I currently have a MAF on. I do have a MAF'less file though. My AFR looks good regardless of whether I have a MAF or not. A wild AFR like yours is not normal.

Try this....

Electrically unplug your front o2 sensor.

Start your car.

Let it idle for a few minutes while logging. Make sure to log IAT, coolant temp, misfires per cylinder, lambda actual, lambda request, boost actual, boost request, n75 duty cycle, o2 sensor voltage

Let's see if the o2 circuit on your ECU is working right.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

First things first, just finished seafoming with a couple rags stuffed in the exhaust. Found a rather large leak at the wastegate, and a small leak between the turbo and manifold. So I'll be ordering some new gaskets and replacing these and going from there.

I'd unplug the O2 and log, but at the moment I don't have any easy access to the underside of the car (parked in a parkade where I'm not supposed to do any work on the car).


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

sabbySC said:


> First things first, just finished seafoming with a couple rags stuffed in the exhaust. Found a rather large leak at the wastegate, and a small leak between the turbo and manifold. So I'll be ordering some new gaskets and replacing these and going from there.
> 
> I'd unplug the O2 and log, but at the moment I don't have any easy access to the underside of the car (parked in a parkade where I'm not supposed to do any work on the car).


It's all good. Do this test and your lambda should be 1.00 (AFR=14.7). That pretty much ensures that the ECU o2 circuit is operating properly.

If your AFR is showing as 14.7 with that test, then replace the front o2 sensor and do some more logs with that.


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

Need some help please
Want to scale my awp maf sensor to 70mm housing (tt/vr6 housing)
Dont now how to do it 
I need the numbers to enter on maestro in 
Start change %
end change %
offset 
Tried use on the excel sheet in eurodyne forum but didnt understand
How to use it
http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=995

Tnx for help


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Leon mk1 said:


> Need some help please
> Want to scale my awp maf sensor to 70mm housing (tt/vr6 housing)
> Dont now how to do it
> I need the numbers to enter on maestro in
> ...


edit - do what Spartiati suggests, I mistakenly thought you had the TT maf as a whole unit, and not just the body.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Leon mk1 said:


> Need some help please
> Want to scale my awp maf sensor to 70mm housing (tt/vr6 housing)
> Dont now how to do it
> I need the numbers to enter on maestro in
> ...


I got:

36.57% start & end
273.131 offset

I think the TT 225 MAF is a totally different sensor than an AWP.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

You don't use the 225tt maf sensor... you take the sensor itself out of the housing using a security torqs and install your awp stock sensor into its housing. Then you use the presets for that particular housing found in maestro.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Kickass, got a 70mm waiting in the cabinet :thumbup:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Budsdubbin said:


> You don't use the 225tt maf sensor... you take the sensor itself out of the housing using a security torqs and install your awp stock sensor into its housing. Then you use the presets for that particular housing found in maestro.


Nope. This is wrong. I have went down this path. You must use a complete TT225 MAF housing and Sensor. The 225 sensor reads differently that a stock AWP. The dropdown menu indicates which maf housing and sensor you use. An S4 MAF profile must use a S4 MAF housing and S4sensor. This has also been confirmed by Chris Tapp.


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## AQuattro (May 24, 2012)

*Aeb to awm wideband swap help needed*

 awm engine harness plugs are different!!! I'm about to quit on this **** before I start:banghead: where do I get wireing diagrams ??? Help please


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

AQuattro said:


> awm engine harness plugs are different!!! I'm about to quit on this **** before I start:banghead: where do I get wireing diagrams ??? Help please


For that harness u should only need to replace the knock sensor plugs and crank sensor. Just unpin them from your old harness and put them to the awm. And for diagrams all data is nice

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

sorry if someone didnt understand me
i ment to use my AWP maf sensor within the tt\vr6 housing
and just wanted to know how to scale the sensor to its new housing
cause i didnt get it with the excel sheet


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Leon mk1 said:


> sorry if someone didnt understand me
> i ment to use my AWP maf sensor within the tt\vr6 housing
> and just wanted to know how to scale the sensor to its new housing
> cause i didnt get it with the excel sheet


Use the info from my post above...


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

DougLoBue said:


> I got:
> 
> 36.57% start & end
> 273.131 offset
> ...


did it
its work great for now
idle at 800 rpm is solid rock !!
i will drive couple more days and check block 32
tnx:beer:


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, My turbo kit I am getting from CTS Turbo comes Mafless, What should I do about not having a maf or should I get a 3" MAF?


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## Brah (Mar 5, 2007)

A little vague here I know, but does anyone wanna take a crack at my idle? 

This happened after I installed my LW flywheel. 

02m trans, AutoTech 9lb lightweight flywheel, Spec Stage 2+ clutch

Heres a YouTube link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SySNHQDd9I

I can post up some Maestro Logs if that helps.

I'm just lookin for a general "try this", to get pointed in the right direction. 

I played with the idle torque prior to this video and was able to get the idle to stay within a couple hundred rpms but is still bouncing like this. 


I'm [email protected] MAFless
mk5 Coilpacks plugs gapped at .040


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## Brah (Mar 5, 2007)

:beer:


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Yeah I'm gonna post some logs as well as my idle does it very similar but if I turn on my a/c it's smooth.


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## Brah (Mar 5, 2007)

WiKKiDTT said:


> Yeah I'm gonna post some logs as well as my idle does it very similar but if I turn on my a/c it's smooth.


 Gotcha. I have no a/c. And like I said, with the stock dual mass flywheel I did not have this issue. So naturally one would assume it would be idle torque. Prior to my playing with "quick tune" the idle would "lobe" (so to say) from 800rpms all the way to 1500rpms+, almost like I was sitting in the car revving it. 

I dropped the idle torque a little in quick tune and it changed the idle, but it idles slightly different every time I run the car. Sometimes it's faster "revs", sometimes its a slower "rev", every once and a while it's a nice steady "normal" idle (typically short lived and returns to the idle in the video). 

Ughhh. I guess I got some work to do.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

9lbs is far far too light. 14/15lb is a good weight, i mean, your not roadracing this bitch SCCA are you? dualmass 02M is nearly 30lbs


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I just got a new clutch / fly wheel and differential. I was told to go with the 15lb flywheel as it would be stronger and actually anything below the 14-15lb weight is taking a chance at blowing it. 




Vegeta Gti said:


> 9lbs is far far too light. 14/15lb is a good weight, i mean, your not roadracing this bitch SCCA are you? dualmass 02M is nearly 30lbs


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

the tolerances are super tight on the 02M and too light will cause issues, just like going to light on any trans/motor. they were designed for a spcific weight baance. if you wanna go that light...you need to balance the botom end for the HUGE changes...it may cause issues in idle and driveability. think of it as having a pole, each end has the same weight. your spining the pole in your hands, now cut the weight on one side by 75%..not only is it hard to keep it balanced but spining it makes it even harder... 

super simple ghetto explanation. apologies.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Vegeta Gti said:


> 9lbs is far far too light. 14/15lb is a good weight, i mean, your not roadracing this bitch SCCA are you? dualmass 02M is nearly 30lbs


 My dual mass OEM out of a TT 02M was 39 lbs.

Sorry really off topic. Just wanted to let you guys know it's more like 40 lbs.....


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

All Stocks are heavier then hell thats why people go with lighter ones but 9lbs might be way to lights 



DougLoBue said:


> My dual mass OEM out of a TT 02M was 39 lbs.
> 
> Sorry really off topic. Just wanted to let you guys know it's more like 40 lbs.....


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I drove a turbo civic once with a 8lb flywheel....yea **** that. Had a 6 puck in it too, car was a real pain in the ass on anything but highway driving


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## Brah (Mar 5, 2007)

Stock 02m from my 1.8t was 27lbs. So I guess 1/3rd of the weight is too light. 

The drivability isnt terrible, believe it or not, but I'm sure it's because the stage 2+ clutch is a full disk with great drivability characteristics. 

I have zero issues outside of the idle. 



Vegeta Gti said:


> 9lbs is far far too light. 14/15lb is a good weight, i mean, your not roadracing this bitch SCCA are you? dualmass 02M is nearly 30lbs


 Nope, it's just a "Sunday Driver" for me, I'm not gunna lie tho, my **** revs like a 2-stroke, and I build boost mega fast, almost to fast... That's gunna be hard to give up


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Ok so im trying to trace my alpha n and tb maps with a S4 maf. scaled for the housing. 

As soon as I apply values via tracing, the values are so drastically different that the curves of the maps are not retained and I turn a half decent running file into a crappy one. 

whats the correct way to do this? 

are the values that i see in the histogram a correction in percent? a "should be value", or what?


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Rac_337 said:


> Ok so im trying to trace my alpha n and tb maps with a S4 maf. scaled for the housing.
> 
> As soon as I apply values via tracing, the values are so drastically different that the curves of the maps are not retained and I turn a half decent running file into a crappy one.
> 
> ...


 Either run the maf or basically tune the car with the alpha n via o2 corrections. 
I tried what your are doing now and it failed miserably. 

Drive the car and try and maintain a certain peddle position for a good stretch of road. Look at the log. If o2 corrections were negative, then the car was anticipating more air and had to dial back fuel. Go into the corresponding alpha n table and reduce that point . Repeat. Do this process mafless and over and over again. 

Only do this if you are attempting to tune a larger throttle body. Its crude but works pretty good


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

DougLoBue said:


> My dual mass OEM out of a TT 02M was 39 lbs.
> 
> Sorry really off topic. Just wanted to let you guys know it's more like 40 lbs.....


 I'm getting a 20lb steel and a Fluidampr (which is actually heavier than the OEM balancer), less FW weight but I get the extra from the new part AND a smoother engine. I'm also thinking the Fluidampr will help with any issues possibly caused by the different FW weight :thumbup:


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

spartiati said:


> Either run the maf or basically tune the car with the alpha n via o2 corrections.
> I tried what your are doing now and it failed miserably.
> 
> Drive the car and try and maintain a certain peddle position for a good stretch of road. Look at the log. If o2 corrections were negative, then the car was anticipating more air and had to dial back fuel. Go into the corresponding alpha n table and reduce that point . Repeat. Do this process mafless and over and over again.
> ...


 cool man. i'll give it a shot. 

the car runs great without the maf with some alpha n maps from mescaline. with the maf the thing chokes and pukes and stalls all over the place.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Tapp has files with s4 calibrations just copy those tables and paste them into your tune.... You car shouldnt be worse with the maf plugged in or else its junk what are you maf readings like?


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Budsdubbin said:


> Tapp has files with s4 calibrations just copy those tables and paste them into your tune.... You car shouldnt be worse with the maf plugged in or else its junk what are you maf readings like?


 maf sensor was backwards. runs decent now lol 

i am however getting large positive o2 corrections on decel between 2000rpm and 1500 with my foot off the throttle. is this normal?


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> maf sensor was backwards. runs decent now lol
> 
> i am however getting large positive o2 corrections on decel between 2000rpm and 1500 with my foot off the throttle. is this normal?


 noooo. In fact you shouldn't be getting ANY corrections on decel. You should read super lean, but 0 correction. At least that's the way mine is, and the way I've understood to be correct. Shouldn't be any 02 correction upon decel.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

xxsur3shotxx said:


> noooo. In fact you shouldn't be getting ANY corrections on decel. You should read super lean, but 0 correction. At least that's the way mine is, and the way I've understood to be correct. Shouldn't be any 02 correction upon decel.


 weird. I wonder whats causing it. 

heres a pic to understand: 










will investigate.


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## createddeleted (Sep 24, 2008)

:sly: 

I'm stumped. 

The "cam timing map" for VVT stg 3 files. What bosch abbreviation is this? I know it controls VVT but why 0.0012 and why -22? And why block editing? Is this a definite on and off? What happens with other degrees inbetween? The non VVT files have a solid 18 accross the map, so, why the difference between .0012 and 18? 

I would just like to know the definition of this map.


----------



## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

createddeleted said:


> :sly:
> 
> I'm stumped.
> 
> ...


 I was asking the same questions to myself... Only Chris could answer I think. I'm using this map as on ON/OFF (0/-22) cause I'm sure it works. When I set this map to -11 the tensioner is not activated at all (at least that's what I can see with my oscilloscope).


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Where's the 'Tuning' part of this thread? Meaning, once you have everything set and working as expected, how do you go about evaluating your logged data and then adjusting maps to increase output? 

Not how-to log, or how-to change map values, but how to 'tune' once you have everything under control. 

I can stare at my perfectly stable timing and AFR curves all day long, but I have very little knowledge on how I should adjust timing/fuel to increase performance (beyond more is better). 

How can we measure output on the road precise enough to know when a small map change has affected performance? 

Once we have a stable base tune, what's the methodology of changing maps, measure, changing maps, measure ? 

1) measure/log base tune 
2) change fuel down 
3) measure richer afr 
4) change fuel up 
5) measure leaner afr 
6) compare base,richer afr, leaner afr 
7) apply findings 
8) repeat 

1) repeat for timing 

^ that's my guess, but I don't know how to measure performance on the road. 

I'd really like to see examples of base map, measured output, changed map, measured affect 
of a base to 'tuned' (or just semi-tuned) AFR and/timing. 

Tuning has got to be more that 'up the timing until it knocks'. 

Thanks, 
Rey


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

My theories, please correct me or even berate me if I'm way off... 

If the best timing curve IS in fact the highest timing your octane will allow (assuming pump gas), then the best thing you can do it aim for 0-5* retard, right? Is that it when it comes to tuning timing? 

If so, that's somewhat simple. Here the more complicated part. 

Fueling. Target AFR that yields the highest performance isn't as simple as finding a max or min. It requires trial-n-error until you find the best measured performance. So, measure, change, measure, compare. Here's the catch. I believe your timing max can change depending on AFR. 

Richer allows for more timing and leaner = less timing. And the ideal AFR can be different over the power band. 

Where to start? Do you go thru the trouble of find max timing before finding ideal AFR? Or just get a usable timing curve well below max and tune fuel, then come back to timing? 

Now throw race gas or E85 into the mix where your timing is no longer limited to knock. You have to somehow measure MBT. 

My head's spinning


----------



## createddeleted (Sep 24, 2008)

Aiming for that magic 5 timing number is "supposed" to net you some more power. But I just have to say, this is why dyno tunes are so much better than road tunes, because you can measure the power that your changes make. Go rent a dyno. 

If you're tuning you should already known how to do your fueling calibrations and what afr you need based on spool. After that, properly spec your cam and timing.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

is everyone using main fuel correction for primary fueling at part throttle? 

Since i've decided to ditch the MAFless config and the optimum torque tuning (which I cant get to work right for the life of me), Im going a different route. 

Heres my strategy: 

Installed S4 MAF. 
Installed a mechanical fuel gauge. showing 39 PSI. 
I've redone my IC to compensate for this lower pressure, and adjusted BVC for idle. (steady at 14.5/7 to 1) 
I've applied these changes to the VVT ID1000 S4MAF file. 

now, my question is, should I just go out and drive around and do some logs? for the most part its showing richness across the board. Should I just modify my accel, decel and main fuel correction to start bringing it into spec? Is this what everyone else is doing? 

I tried to adjust fueling via opt. torque but for some reason when I increase %filling im getting leaner and not richer. :facepalm:


----------



## createddeleted (Sep 24, 2008)

If you are rich accruals the board, adjust your injector value. Krkte.


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

createddeleted said:


> If you are rich accruals the board, adjust your injector value. Krkte.


 injector constant?


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## createddeleted (Sep 24, 2008)

Rac_337 said:


> injector constant?


 iPhone auto correct fail on my last post. 

But yes, for mine with 550's my value is 0.05953 or something like that. That value scaled up or down will adjust overall lean/rich. Use the bvc values from the injector data sheet. After dialing it in as close as possible you may then tweak your bvc values to tailor low end fueling compensation to match with low maf readings. (or low expected load in mafless) 



> In practice, a deviation in lambda may occur due to injector nonlinearities or pulses in the fuel system. This deviation is corrected using the map FKKVS as a function of engine speed (nmot_w) and effective injection time (tevfa_w or tevfa2_w). The corrected effective injection time is te_w or te2_w. By adding the battery voltage correction for the injectors, the actuation time is calculated thus: ti_b1 = te_w + tvu_w. The function ACIFI controls the actuation times ti_b1 and ti_b2 for the associated injectors. In a single bank system (SY_stervk = false) the actuation times for bank 1 (ti_b1 or ti_b2) are forwarded to CIFI. In order to achieve the long injection times required during starting conditions, the quantization times ti_b1, ti_b2 are increased by a factor of 8 which thus expands the range to 1677.696 ms. The same applies for the additive quantity ti_tvu_w.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

createddeleted said:


> iPhone auto correct fail on my last post.
> 
> But yes, for mine with 550's my value is 0.05953 or something like that. That value scaled up or down will adjust overall lean/rich. Use the bvc values from the injector data sheet. After dialing it in as close as possible you may then tweak your bvc values to tailor low end fueling compensation to match with low maf readings. (or low expected load in mafless)


 sweet. i'll do this. i've got my bvc pretty close to spec. idle AFR is good. (+/- 1% correction) 

Will take a drive around and dial in IC. 

cheers.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*FV-QR*

finally got my v8 maf hooked up today. my cars fuel corrections are alot tighter now and i did some logs to see if my throttle vs. airflow table needs adjusting due to the aeb head and noticed that the trace histogram only applies zeroes. I know some tables cant make corrections via trace histogram but i know aplha n can? how should i go about adjusting the airflow table. 

The only way i can think is just to log and look at the excel sheet and match every cell to where it should be in the table in regards to rpm and throttle opening?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

tojr1088 said:


> finally got my v8 maf hooked up today. my cars fuel corrections are alot tighter now and i did some logs to see if my throttle vs. airflow table needs adjusting due to the aeb head and noticed that the trace histogram only applies zeroes. I know some tables cant make corrections via trace histogram but i know aplha n can? how should i go about adjusting the airflow table.
> 
> The only way i can think is just to log and look at the excel sheet and match every cell to where it should be in the table in regards to rpm and throttle opening?


I cant remember off the top of my head, but one of the two maps, alpha n and airflow vs tb, will be zero when the MAF is plugged in and vise versa when the MAF is unplugged


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*SAI*

With the Maestro7, can you remove all the seconday air componets and be able to clear all the codes. Alao besides the block off plate do i need some kind of resistor?


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Well for some reason I can't read codes or clear I get a communication error. But everything else works fine?


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> With the Maestro7, can you remove all the seconday air componets and be able to clear all the codes. Alao besides the block off plate do i need some kind of resistor?


Yes as resistor I used 10w 330ohm. Arcoil as they last for a long time. 

U will turn off codes for it in your tune


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dub-Nub said:


> I cant remember off the top of my head, but one of the two maps, alpha n and airflow vs tb, will be zero when the MAF is plugged in and vise versa when the MAF is unplugged


See my aplha n isn't zero regardless of maf plugged in or not. But my throttle vs. Airflow is always zeroes. Is this supposed to be this.way.? 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

tojr1088 said:


> The only way i can think is just to log and look at the excel sheet and match every cell to where it should be in the table in regards to rpm and throttle opening?


Thats how I did it many many old versions ago. Its a PITA as you need to cross reference like 3 cells at once however I was happy to see my ALPHA-N tables were pretty accurate. Remember they wont correlate directly as the cells given in ALPHA-N cover a wide range of readings. I basically crosschecked a few areas where I was most concerned with. You should not need to modify these tables on a stock throttle body and intake manifold.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Thats how I did it many many old versions ago. Its a PITA as you need to cross reference like 3 cells at once however I was happy to see my ALPHA-N tables were pretty accurate. Remember they wont correlate directly as the cells given in ALPHA-N cover a wide range of readings. I basically crosschecked a few areas where I was most concerned with. You should not need to modify these tables on a stock throttle body and intake manifold.


But you see I have a 70mm throttle and aeb intake and head. I have 70mm airflow tables and aplha n but don't.think there perfect. Wish the histogram could correct

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

You can either correct that table using the calibrated MAF for that tune(use the tracer but most havn't had much success) or you can do it VIA 02 correction. Simply follow the highlighted cells using the tracer and use your o2 corrections to point you in the right direction as far as knowing if you need to remove or add to the values... I have yet do play with the alpha N but I would do it by +or- 1%of the value being highlighted untill you are comfortable and have a general grasp on how much the changed value will effect fuel.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> You can either correct that table using the calibrated MAF for that tune(use the tracer but most havn't had much success) or you can do it VIA 02 correction. Simply follow the highlighted cells using the tracer and use your o2 corrections to point you in the right direction as far as knowing if you need to remove or add to the values... I have yet do play with the alpha N but I would do it by +or- 1%of the value being highlighted untill you are comfortable and have a general grasp on how much the changed value will effect fuel.


Yes I figured this and didn't wanna have too. But o well.

I am using the v8 maf profile which is what I have. My fuel correction right now is no more than +/- 7 but I know it can be better. Ill have to work it out via the tracer and correction values

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

This the popular V8 maf? Audi - S4, 4.2L V8, '04-08


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

screwball said:


> This the popular V8 maf? Audi - S4, 4.2L V8, '04-08


yes. but its from a d2 a8. the part number is in maestro. most ppl think its an s4 maf but it works really well. i wanted hitachi but i already had a brand new 4.2l maf lying around. seems to work better and my car is a whole lot faster now than when its unplugged. at least thats how it seems


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> You can either correct that table using the calibrated MAF for that tune(use the tracer but most havn't had much success) or you can do it VIA 02 correction. Simply follow the highlighted cells using the tracer and use your o2 corrections to point you in the right direction as far as knowing if you need to remove or add to the values... I have yet do play with the alpha N but I would do it by +or- 1%of the value being highlighted untill you are comfortable and have a general grasp on how much the changed value will effect fuel.


also what im worried about is how do i even know my airflow values are off? (im only assuming they are because of my aeb head and 70mm throttle body even tho i have the 70mm maps i know the higher flowing head and manifold come into play but how much?) 

im worried that if i get my fuel perfect through tracing the airflow tables and reflashing over and over how do i know i didnt just mask a problem of lets say my optimum torque tables or anything else.

im guessing theres just too many ways to find this out and more than one band aid for it. i guess im just gonna use the tracer and adjust until i see my airflow values in each traced cells match with my log readings as close as i can get them. 

the tricky thing is when ur tracing and following the cells per rpm and airflow value and tps value i notice that sometimes the cell highlighted may match up with rpm in the logs but then it bumps up 3 cells or 2 where the airflow matches but say the tps does not. 

its very confusing when u notice how the tables need higher resolution because the cell being traced may be off from the axis but the value in the cell is still used for a small variation of rpm and airflow. wish we had a better way to do this. i dont understand why the histogram cant just make corrections via airflow numbers. like the aplha n can. maybe im better off just being mafless and adjusting the aplha n via 02 correction but then im worried ill mask over any other problems for sure. i really wanna be able to just trace airflow numbers but o well

guess the long tidious way it is


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

*no lift shift*

trying to figure some thing about NLS
at full throttle i am shifting up at 7000-7500rpm without lifting the gas pedal, only- clutch pedal pushed down-shift up-release clutch.
i dont feel nothing,dont hear nothing,the rpm raising to 7500 limit and boost drops
also at idle when i press the clutch pedal i have a small misfire only when the 2 step is enabled.

2step is working when the car stand in place even when clutch pedal is not pressed

i enabled 2 step and nls in maestro suite
at the quick tune i set:

2 step rev limiter
speed 2 RPM limit 3500

no lift shift time delay 
i tried 14\22\40

my car is seat leon AUQ engnie
630cc
awp maf
gt30r
i have a clutch pedal switch in my car
what am i doing wrong ?
tnx


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Leon mk1 said:


> trying to figure some thing about NLS
> at full throttle i am shifting up at 7000-7500rpm without lifting the gas pedal, only- clutch pedal pushed down-shift up-release clutch.
> i dont feel nothing,dont hear nothing,the rpm raising to 7500 limit and boost drops
> also at idle when i press the clutch pedal i have a small misfire only when the 2 step is enabled.
> ...


Try 60 delay I've had success with it


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

There are two clutch switches and if you have ever replaced your master cylinder for your clutch it might only be pressing one of the switches as the new master cylinder have a slightly shorter rod. . I forget what block to log for the switches but I'm sure someone can tell you. That's how I found out I had a issue.


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

I replaced clutch master cylinder when i bought my stage 4 clutchmasters.
What can i do to resolve that issue ?
Tnx for that info


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

I ended up taking a wheel weight and glued it on the clutch pedal where it meets the switch. When I looked at it I thought it was pressing it in but it wasn't pressing it in far enough. Just look at both and make sure they r getting pressed in. When you open measuring blocks in maestro you can look at both of them in live view to see if they are working. Find out what blocks to look at and do that first. And if one isn't being pressed I'm sure that's what the problem is.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

A tape weight. 1/4 oz.


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## juiceyou321 (Jul 18, 2008)

Same here, LC works great but I have never got NLS to work. I'm going to check those switches tonight. Hopefully that is the problem.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> yes. but its from a d2 a8. the part number is in maestro. most ppl think its an s4 maf but it works really well. i wanted hitachi but i already had a brand new 4.2l maf lying around.* seems to work better and my car is a whole lot faster now than when its unplugged. at least thats how it seems*


2012. The return of the MAF.


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## createddeleted (Sep 24, 2008)

gdoggmoney said:


> 2012. The return of the MAF.


opcorn:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

createddeleted said:


> opcorn:


It only take 84 pages or so, a bunch of time and a few Motronic hackers.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

gdoggmoney said:


> It only take 84 pages or so, a bunch of time and a few Motronic hackers.


----------



## createddeleted (Sep 24, 2008)

*+NEIL*+DIAMOND*+ said:


>


Lolololol. :laugh:


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

I didnt checked the clutch switch on VCDS
But i set the time delay to 60ms and now its work great


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Just updated to the latest version of maestro and found that Tapp has added the larger TB/SEM files to the base maps:beer:


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

What is wrong with my idle LOL? Adam Pap (Rac337) Where are you haha? Just sent you an email buddy.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I just got the Maestro and I went to download my file from the ECU and save it to send off to them in an email. After that, well my car didn't want to start? Now sure what I might have done wrong!


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

NJ1.8T said:


> I just got the Maestro and I went to download my file from the ECU and save it to send off to them in an email. After that, well my car didn't want to start? Now sure what I might have done wrong!


That happened to me after my first flash. The immobilizer kicked in for some reason. Chris e-mailed me an imob defeat code, and all was well.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Do you have his email so I can email him. I called and the guy on the phone for eurodyne said that the Maestro software had nothing to do with it



*+NEIL*+DIAMOND*+ said:


> That happened to me after my first flash. The immobilizer kicked in for some reason. Chris e-mailed me an imob defeat code, and all was well.


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## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

sabbySC said:


> Just updated to the latest version of maestro and found that Tapp has added the larger TB/SEM files to the base maps:beer:


AWESOME!!!!!!!

Looks like all of the new files are for with VVT, my car does not have VVT, is there a way to disable it? Or should I swap my cams back to stock and install VVT?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Malant said:


> AWESOME!!!!!!!
> 
> Looks like all of the new files are for with VVT, my car does not have VVT, is there a way to disable it? Or should I swap my cams back to stock and install VVT?


You could always start by taking the alpha-n and tb angle vs aiflow maps from the new files and importing them into your non vvt file. It's worth a shot to see if they work any better.


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

hoping someone can help me. Haven't had a ton of time to tune on Maestro yet...still not sure I am totally happy being N75'less, and such but my tune is feeling pretty good. Have been messing with tuning in the WMI as well. Just running the race maps now. 

Here is the thing...cold start are a b([email protected]_# at the moment. Care is finiky...

Sometimes...will start just fine...idle nicely, etc. 

More often than not though...first start. Doesn't "start" first time or it will start, revs will bounce...sounds like it is going to die and then revs back up, sounds like it is going to die, etc. Feeling like it could be an issue with the cold start settings/maps. 

Additionally, when warm...have a slight idle bounce. I know a place to start there is possibly with the voltage compensation...

However, can anyone give me some pointers on where to go with the cold start maps? or...with this cold start issue in general. (no codes by the way)

Joe


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> hoping someone can help me. Haven't had a ton of time to tune on Maestro yet...still not sure I am totally happy being N75'less, and such but my tune is feeling pretty good. Have been messing with tuning in the WMI as well. Just running the race maps now.
> 
> Here is the thing...cold start are a b([email protected]_# at the moment. Care is finiky...
> 
> ...


whats your idle fuel trim in block 32


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

So there is a ton of SEM + 70 and 80mm base maps now. Has anyone tried them?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> So there is a ton of SEM + 70 and 80mm base maps now. Has anyone tried them?


I just flashed one yesterday, but so far haven't had much driving time. I will report back once I've done some logging. Overall primary observations are that part throtle driving is a little more refined than using my modified version of the alpha n and tb/vs airflow angles provided by a generous member here.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

sabbySC said:


> I just flashed one yesterday, but so far haven't had much driving time. I will report back once I've done some logging. Overall primary observations are that part throtle driving is a little more refined than using my modified version of the alpha n and tb/vs airflow angles provided by a generous member here.


what file are you using?

I flashed the 80mm SEM 1000cc file on my setup (80mm + SEM + AEB) and noticed that idle is stupid rich, with BVC and IC values used from my previous file (which idle great). I also noticed that alpha and tb cells at idle are almost double the values of what I had on a working file (example: alpha n at 2% and 1000rpm are 18.3 kg/h vs 8.9 I had on a solid idle)

Gonna try knocking BVC down to bring the idle in check. hopefully it doesn't negatively effect the rest of fueling. If it gets too low I will try to bring those alpha and tb cells lower to match what I had before and see how it works.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Use the bvc that's already there. Don't know why its different.but worked for.me start from that one and readjust

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## 420-GOLF (Jul 8, 2002)

My friend is tuning my MK4 GLI 6 speed with stock long block, 630 Siemens, VDO drop-in pump, ATP 2871r, TT225 MAF, and Tyrol Sport side mount IC. The car has the worst cold start and once warmed up sometime has a hunting idle, but its not always present. Block 32fuel trims are both within 3% so my BVC and IC are pretty spot on. The car drives and runs perfect otherwise and hauls at 23psi. Im going to do a leak test to see if there's some weird vacuum leak, but besides that he’s stumped. The idle tq maps haven’t been touched yet but I’m wondering if these injectors are part of the issue. Anyways, looking for advice if anyone has run into this issue before. The VVT base map was the original starting point. 

thanks


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Is the maf brand new. Check those vac leaks cause they will be most present at idle

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Read ECU*

Well, it just happened again a second time. I just got Maestro a few days back. I did what the instructions said to do, read the ECU, and when it finished I saved it. It then automatically opened my email client and I sent it off to [email protected] 
After doing that, I closed down the software, pulled the OBD out and clsed my laptop as it started to rain. I went inside my garage to put my computer down. I then went back to my car to see if it would start, nothing. It just cranks but won't turn over.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> Use the bvc that's already there. Don't know why its different.but worked for.me start from that one and readjust
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


 Im using my calculated IC for 840's, and spec BVC from Siemens. I've adjusted the first row of alpha N and tb/airflow to get idle afr at 14.7 and its rock solid. (mafless) hunts for target a bit but overall not bad (+/- 2% correction at idle) 

main fuel needs work. want to try and get my corrections into the negatives instead of the +/-/+/- between 14.3 and 14.9 afr at part throttle driving thats happening now... I just need to go for a long drive and get a decent amount of data. overall the file feels great tho.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

NJ1.8T said:


> Well, it just happened again a second time. I just got Maestro a few days back. I did what the instructions said to do, read the ECU, and when it finished I saved it. It then automatically opened my email client and I sent it off to [email protected]
> After doing that, I closed down the software, pulled the OBD out and clsed my laptop as it started to rain. I went inside my garage to put my computer down. I then went back to my car to see if it would start, nothing. It just cranks but won't turn over.


 pretty general statement here. whats your point? it probably wont start if you have a lot of mods and haven't flashed a new file to the ecu. simply doing a read of the ecu is not going to change anything. you're just reading a eprom. 

if its not starting, you have other problems :beer:


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## 420-GOLF (Jul 8, 2002)

yes brand new MAF


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Chris is going to look into things today with the file I sent him. The car ran perfect before the read. I had just driven from my friends shop back to my house, got out my laptop, plugged in the cable, turned the ignition on and read the ecu. After that I closed the program and everything was unhooked. Tried to start, nothing. So its nothing with the mechanical, it has to be something with the ECU. 



Rac_337 said:


> pretty general statement here. whats your point? it probably wont start if you have a lot of mods and haven't flashed a new file to the ecu. simply doing a read of the ecu is not going to change anything. you're just reading a eprom.
> 
> if its not starting, you have other problems :beer:


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## NeverGiveUp (Jan 6, 2004)

Does someone know if those new base files with the SEM Intake Manifold are for Big or Small ports (IM + Cylinder head)?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> what file are you using?
> 
> I flashed the 80mm SEM 1000cc file on my setup (80mm + SEM + AEB) and noticed that idle is stupid rich, with BVC and IC values used from my previous file (which idle great). I also noticed that alpha and tb cells at idle are almost double the values of what I had on a working file (example: alpha n at 2% and 1000rpm are 18.3 kg/h vs 8.9 I had on a solid idle)
> 
> Gonna try knocking BVC down to bring the idle in check. hopefully it doesn't negatively effect the rest of fueling. If it gets too low I will try to bring those alpha and tb cells lower to match what I had before and see how it works.


 70mm and SEM. I noticed the exact same thing, idle is stupid rich, to the point where it will almost stall. I've imported my bvc values aswell, but something is definately different with the new file when it comes to idle values.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Where in Maestro do I find all the base files so I can flash the Stage 1 AWP file back onto my car. 
Thanks for your help and assistance


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

NJ1.8T said:


> Where in Maestro do I find all the base files so I can flash the Stage 1 AWP file back onto my car.
> Thanks for your help and assistance


 in maestro just click file -> select base file and they're all in there


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> 70mm and SEM. I noticed the exact same thing, idle is stupid rich, to the point where it will almost stall. I've imported my bvc values aswell, but something is definately different with the new file when it comes to idle values.


 I'm telling ya. I used the regular values and started from.there. my other Bvc values from my old file didn't work and were drastically different 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Finally figured it out, but thanks for your help!! 



dubbin_boho said:


> in maestro just click file -> select base file and they're all in there


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

sabbySC said:


> 70mm and SEM. I noticed the exact same thing, idle is stupid rich, to the point where it will almost stall. I've imported my bvc values aswell, but something is definately different with the new file when it comes to idle values.


 agreed. i've had to edit first row of alpha n to even get a decent idle. didn't effect driving characteristics so seems like that worked. 

I've done some logs with edits to main fuel but im still running pretty rich part throttle. theirs huge low spots in main fuel correction with what i've logged. WOT seems not too bad, pulling around 2% at most after 132% load or so. 

might reset my main fuel and molest my "bosch formula" calculated IC and see if that brings down the massive amount of fuel its taking away at part throttle, then use fueling maps to add fuel up top. 

from what i understand a reduction in IC (KRKTE) will adjust fueling across the board? second block in LTFT scales this number so I assume this theory is correct.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> I'm telling ya. I used the regular values and started from.there. my other Bvc values from my old file didn't work and were drastically different
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


 did you reset main fuel corrections as well? 

im on 840's so I dont think the 1000cc BVC and IC values are even close? 

i'll try this and see what happens


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> did you reset main fuel corrections as well?
> 
> im on 840's so I dont think the 1000cc BVC and IC values are even close?
> 
> i'll try this and see what happens


 my main fuel corrections were untouched. and if ur on 840's the injector constant obviously needs adjusting but id still try the regular bvc values to start and see how much idle trim u get and adjust. just make sure when u adjust whatever u add make sure u add the number to every bvc value so the curve moves up linearly. incase u didnt know already. 

when i had my manufacturer bvc values (630's) in the new sem file it didnt work well


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*+NEIL*+DIAMOND*+ said:


> SNIPPED AWESOME IMAGE


 I love you. :thumbup: 


I'm very close to a set of injector dynamics 715/725's. Should have done it to begin with, spend it once or twice to do it right the second time and it costs more. :banghead:


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

I uploaded one of tapps new 70MM VVT files last night. The idle was spot on but I think the file still needs a lot more tweaking. The throttle response was very laggy, and it took a lot of throttle response to even hit 5 psi. I only drove around with it for a little bit and then switched back to a previous file that (Rac337) sent me. With this other file the idle isn't as spot on but driveability and throttle response is way better. How should I go about getting my car to idle like tapps but keep driveability the same? I was thinking just going into bvc and start changing some values. What do you guys think?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

jettaman18t said:


> I uploaded one of tapps new 70MM VVT files last night. The idle was spot on but I think the file still needs a lot more tweaking. The throttle response was very laggy, and it took a lot of throttle response to even hit 5 psi. I only drove around with it for a little bit and then switched back to a previous file that (Rac337) sent me. With this other file the idle isn't as spot on but driveability and throttle response is way better. How should I go about getting my car to idle like tapps but keep driveability the same? I was thinking just going into bvc and start changing some values. What do you guys think?


 Ideally you would take the values from the idle area of the maps from tapps new file and transcribe them over to the file you are using where the throttle response and driveability is better. 

Start with the throttle body airflow map, I believe it's alpha-n been a few months since I've been able to even open maestro as my cable is still being repaired :banghead:


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

Cryser said:


> Ideally you would take the values from the idle area of the maps from tapps new file and transcribe them over to the file you are using where the throttle response and driveability is better.
> 
> Start with the throttle body airflow map, I believe it's alpha-n been a few months since I've been able to even open maestro as my cable is still being repaired :banghead:


 I think there is both throttle vs airflow and alpha n. I will import both of those maps into tapps Vvt 70mm file this weekend and see how it goes. Thanks for the info hope you get your cable back soon.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Leon mk1 said:


> trying to figure some thing about NLS
> at full throttle i am shifting up at 7000-7500rpm without lifting the gas pedal, only- clutch pedal pushed down-shift up-release clutch.
> i dont feel nothing,dont hear nothing,the rpm raising to 7500 limit and boost drops
> also at idle when i press the clutch pedal i have a small misfire only when the 2 step is enabled.
> ...


 
Bad clutch switch. It's a momentary switch from what I see. I just replaced one that did not throw a code, and it would automatically engage the 2-step if I was sitting still. New 30$ switch fixed it. 

The blue switch is the culprit, it has been through about 5 revisions now. The latest version is no longer even 1j0 it's from a new chassis and fits the MKIV.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> Bad clutch switch. It's a momentary switch from what I see. I just replaced one that did not throw a code, and it would automatically engage the 2-step if I was sitting still. New 30$ switch fixed it.
> 
> The blue switch is the culprit, it has been through about 5 revisions now. The latest version is no longer even 1j0 it's from a new chassis and fits the MKIV.


 I'm looking into that now. Cause my 2 step works without clutch but never cared cause I have it off by 2mph

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> I'm looking into that now. Cause my 2 step works without clutch but never cared cause I have it off by 2mph
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


 That switch deos more than that. 


It allows revs to drop faster so you can change gears faster. That was a nice side effect of replacing it. 

I'm guessing the ECU has some logic built in to allow that to happen based on said momentary blue switch. It has two springs in it, take your old one apart and check it out. Very slick/odd.


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

gdoggmoney said:


> Bad clutch switch. It's a momentary switch from what I see. I just replaced one that did not throw a code, and it would automatically engage the 2-step if I was sitting still. New 30$ switch fixed it.
> 
> The blue switch is the culprit, it has been through about 5 revisions now. The latest version is no longer even 1j0 it's from a new chassis and fits the MKIV.


 tnx for your respond 
i set the no lift shift time delay to 55ms and now its work


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Leon mk1 said:


> tnx for your respond
> i set the no lift shift time delay to 55ms and now its work


 55ms is very short. You should be targetting 150-200ms at the shortest I would think. Or whatever value translates over to that 150-200ms.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> That switch deos more than that.
> 
> 
> It allows revs to drop faster so you can change gears faster. That was a nice side effect of replacing it.
> ...


 Interesting.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> That switch deos more than that.
> 
> 
> It allows revs to drop faster so you can change gears faster. That was a nice side effect of replacing it.
> ...


 By any chance do u know the measuring.blocks to check both switch function 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

tojr1088 said:


> whats your idle fuel trim in block 32


 warm car...idling fine right now...it is at -0.19


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

a quick question: 

what would cause corrections to hunt up, down, up, down, at idle? 

also what causes afr to become rich AFTER blipping the throttle? 

have a good idle, but corrections hunt before settling down at 14.7


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

Rac_337 said:


> a quick question:
> 
> what would cause corrections to hunt up, down, up, down, at idle?
> 
> ...


 Very similar to my prob! Except...add to it...crappy cold starts... 

Joe


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> Very similar to my prob! Except...add to it...crappy cold starts...
> 
> Joe


 im going to try to lower my minimum injector pulsewidth. thinking that might be why it hunts because it wont let it pulse low enough and keep a steady idle


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Rac_337 said:


> im going to try to lower my minimum injector pulsewidth. thinking that might be why it hunts because it wont let it pulse low enough and keep a steady idle


 :thumbup: Helped my car last year


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

One-Eight GTI said:


> :thumbup: Helped my car last year


 Sweet! good news  

I wonder what the lowest pw these siemens 840's can handle lol


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Does anyone know for sure what causes the delay in correction once I say put in the clutch while driving. My Afr will go to 11 for a few seconds then back to normal 14.7

Is it the pulsewith or just normal. Keep in mind my fuel trims are near perfect. This is the only problem I have that I.notice. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> Does anyone know for sure what causes the delay in correction once I say put in the clutch while driving. My Afr will go to 11 for a few seconds then back to normal 14.7
> 
> Is it the pulsewith or just normal. Keep in mind my fuel trims are near perfect. This is the only problem I have that I.notice.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


 The car doesn't shut off fuel right away do after letting off it continues to inject fuel till it starts correcting again. Of it instantly cuts off fuel I would think it would jerk.

I may be wrong


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

codergfx said:


> The car doesn't shut off fuel right away do after letting off it continues to inject fuel till it starts correcting again. Of it instantly cuts off fuel I would think it would jerk.
> 
> I may be wrong


 Need to look into this. Cause at super low loads and throttle driving. Like barely any throttle and anything below 18 vacumm the Afr hunts up and down between 13.5 and 15.5 until u give more gas. Also when its hot outside the idle wants to bounce intermittently. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> By any chance do u know the measuring.blocks to check both switch function
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


 No clue, and get this. 

The switch throws a implausible code -- but it never threw one when unplugged or not. Since it passes current constantly, I think the ECU would only throw an implausible if it failed and broke contact. That is not how mine failed, it failed so the momentary break in contact never happened. 


Since it fails and still stays shut passing current -- it is a silent failure! I should start a thread. But that has been my experience so far. 

My rev hang is dramatically less too, this is a canned UNI 630 file on random 630 injectors.


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

anyone experience any rev hang? Doesn't happen all the time, only certain situations. For example, if im rolling through a parking lot in first gear, at like 2k rpms, and push the clutch in, it will take its sweet time coming back down to idle.


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

xxsur3shotxx said:


> anyone experience any rev hang? Doesn't happen all the time, only certain situations. For example, if im rolling through a parking lot in first gear, at like 2k rpms, and push the clutch in, it will take its sweet time coming back down to idle.


 x2opcorn:


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

Rac_337 said:


> im going to try to lower my minimum injector pulsewidth. thinking that might be why it hunts because it wont let it pulse low enough and keep a steady idle


 Going to try this as well....interesting idea as now that I think about it my WMI stg 3 controller displays pulse width etc and I remember seeing it sit at .02 I believe before when I had rock hard idle on APR....now it will sit around 3 or 4. 

Are battery voltage compensation and the cold start maps something to consider as well? 

Joe


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Ok so ive done some experimenting. With the IC that the wizard gives me I had the o2 correction hunting problem. I was able to get it sorted out. this is with the new 80mm base file. 

a) I reset main fuel correction to 1.0001. 
b) I reset inj. correction to 1.0001 
c) I left my BVC values set to manufactures spec, minus a few percent (siemens is based off 39.15 psi. im at around 41 or so) 
d) I reduced warmup fuel enrichment by like 40% so its not at 10.9 afr on a cold start lol 

e) I LOWERED my IC. this stopped my corrections from hunting. I tried my original IC, then it started to hunt again. 

knowing this, I put the IC back to where it was good. 

Started it, waited for it to start correcting, and it didnt hunt. So I made some trace modifications to main fuel. 

tried again with the new main fuel, and it started to hunt again. wtf. 

knowing this, I realized because I only modified a few cells on main fuel, it was throwing the corrections for a spin and fighting against itself. The key to stop correction hunting is to make your fuel maps as smooth as possible between cells, and that you are infact modifying the correct map for that given situation at specific points and times. Also having the right IC seems to be the biggest factor in correction hunting 

that being said im going to try Tapps original base main fuel correction map, because it looks almost identical to what I developed as a working map. Im also going to try his injector correction map vs. a map that I will develop for myself, as his inj. correction is for ID1000's and im running 840's, it probably wont even be close.


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

I went to reflash yesterday and I got a prompt saying "License file isnt valid for this vehicle...." 

I dont get it, I got my 550 file loaded up last week fine, It logs fine, I can use maestro, but it wont flash!:banghead: 

Contacted Eurodyne several time this week without a reply also I would love some helpful advice.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Anyone know why after i blip the throttle it request .85 lambda before requesting 1.0? 

where do I change that? 

its causing the car to almost die lol


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Rac_337 said:


> Ok so ive done some experimenting. With the IC that the wizard gives me I had the o2 correction hunting problem. I was able to get it sorted out. this is with the new 80mm base file.
> 
> a) I reset main fuel correction to 1.0001.
> b) I reset inj. correction to 1.0001
> ...


 guys 

I figured out the o2 correction hunting. its not because of what I posted above 

Alpha N's first row on all base maps is not populated for throttle plate positions below 2.5 or so. 

I changed the first row and populated it for 1.5% thottle plate and 7.5kg/hr, and populated tb. vs. airflow to reflect, and my correction hunting is gone! 

i can blip the thottle and not have it almost die! 

pow! 

still dont know why its requesting .85 lambda after a blip though. If i can figure out that then I would have a perfectly idling 80mm map on sem + aeb.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

ps. i am mafless. not sure if this is the way to fix it with a maf too, but I would not see how this would hurt.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> ps. i am mafless. not sure if this is the way to fix it with a maf too, but I would not see how this would hurt.


 Did you replace the 0 value row, or the second row (the 2.5 value row)? 

I'm thinking I'll give this a shot and see how it works for me.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

sabbySC said:


> Did you replace the 0 value row, or the second row (the 2.5 value row)?
> 
> I'm thinking I'll give this a shot and see how it works for me.


 the 0 value row. 

heres a pic of my alpha n: 










and also my tb vs. airflow: 










the first row was all 0's on both maps. now when the throttle plate is 2% or less it has something more accurate to fall on. (tb is usually under 2% during idle) 

it just doesn't make sense to me to have a complete row doing absolutely nothing, not just on this but on any map for that matter. 

you will have to play with the cell numbers to get your afr close to 14.7. 

i also think this serves as a great way to tune idle afr. plug in your IC, and manufacture spec bvc, then you can just use this first row to dial in idle afr to where ever you want it to be. This way we can use block 32 to fine tune bvc and ic, and it should be close. 

of course this only applies to mafless, and further ic/bvc tuning might be required. but so far this method has worked for me. :beer:


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Can anyone share their alpha n for a gt3076r .63 hot side, 1.8l displacement and target filling and optimum torque?


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

To further my previous post, heres a video of my idle afr tuned with the method I descibed: 





 

Now, for some reason, after I rev it, its requesting .85 lambda for a brief instance, then requesting 1. This is why my AFR goes way rich and then way lean because o2 corrections are trying to correct for it. 

Anyone know what is causing this? If we can figure it out then im going to write a how to on setting up idle on a mafless 20v with Maestro.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> To further my previous post, heres a video of my idle afr tuned with the method I descibed:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I don't think u should be setting up idle like that. My idle is perfect mafless or not just by calibrating the bvc and getting minimum pulsewidth correct. My car jumps rich quick too when u stab the gas. Same if u let off or gpnna from decelerating to accelerating. I think this is because say u slam the gas at a high rpm it wants to make sure u get rich quick especially if ur power comes on fast like mine. Not sure tho. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> To further my previous post, heres a video of my idle afr tuned with the method I descibed:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 My car does the same as ur video but not when I stab the gas actually. Only after I let off it goes like 11 Afr for a second then right to 14.7 . Yours gets rich then lean then settles down.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> My car does the same as ur video but not when I stab the gas actually. Only after I let off it goes like 11 Afr for a second then right to 14.7 . Yours gets rich then lean then settles down.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


 Yes, all cars will get rich when the gas is stabbed, as they should. But its getting rich after I let off, and requesting .85 long after the fact my foot has touched the pedal, like when the rpm is on its way down around 1500 it will request .85. 

As for setting up idle... if I use bvc to set idle, it effects me in all other areas, and causes the tune to be ultra lean. this is not correct. Also, BVC values should not be so far off from manufacture specification. The values I had to enter for BVC to yield a correct idle made the car dangerously lean and were like 80% off of what Siemens specs. I would much rather tune my idle via alpha N and have correct BVC values than risk the entire tune being lean. Im going to run it like this and see how STFT and LTFT are. If they are close, then I know my IC and BVC are right. 

Since maps interpolate, if there is a smaller value closer to what is actually happening, alpha n is going to use it. It doesn't make sense to me to mess with a BVC and IC that I know is right (from my old file, which works fantastic), and leave alpha alone when its targeting a calculated value 18.3kg/h of air over the plate which is definitely not true. Where Chris got that number from for a idling car, I have no clue...maybe a car with aggressive cams would draw that much air in...not the case for me. Since the line is all 0's anyway, its technically not doing squat, which is why I made use of it. The ECU is never going to target a alpha n value of 0, ever. why would it?  

AS for min. pw: Is this not just a hard limit as to how low injectors can pulse no?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> Yes, all cars will get rich when the gas is stabbed, as they should. But its getting rich after I let off, and requesting .85 long after the fact my foot has touched the pedal, like when the rpm is on its way down around 1500 it will request .85.
> 
> As for setting up idle... if I use bvc to set idle, it effects me in all other areas, and causes the tune to be ultra lean. this is not correct. Also, BVC values should not be so far off from manufacture specification. The values I had to enter for BVC to yield a correct idle made the car dangerously lean and were like 80% off of what Siemens specs. I would much rather tune my idle via alpha N and have correct BVC values than risk the entire tune being lean. Im going to run it like this and see how STFT and LTFT are. If they are close, then I know my IC and BVC are right.
> 
> ...


 I think there all zero because at that point different means of fuel Control are being used at idle. Perhaps check your deceleration fuel. Mine requests. 85 too and sits rich after I let my foot off but then after a second or too starts correcting and comes right back. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> I think there all zero because at that point different means of fuel Control are being used at idle. Perhaps check your deceleration fuel. Mine requests. 85 too and sits rich after I let my foot off but then after a second or too starts correcting and comes right back.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


 ok i'll look into it. does it overshoot when it comes back? 

even with cell values of 0 idle log show its still targeting the second row of values and not the row that is 0's. 

:beer::beer:


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

btw do you know what is the bosch abbreviation for alpha n?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Rac_337 - I tested your method today using the alpha n table to affect idle. I did not find my results to be the same as yours, I found the idle to hunt a bit more than normal. Bear in mind I am using EV14 injectors and have been able to establish a solid idle using the bvc/ic adjustment method, without having to make any wild adjustments. 

I'm back to where I was earlier, using a modified set of values for alpha n, this seems to be netting me the best result. What I do need is more seat time, and alot more time to log some data. For now this will all have to wait as I've got beers to drink and the final round of the US open to watch.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

sabbySC said:


> Rac_337 - I tested your method today using the alpha n table to affect idle. I did not find my results to be the same as yours, I found the idle to hunt a bit more than normal. Bear in mind I am using EV14 injectors and have been able to establish a solid idle using the bvc/ic adjustment method, without having to make any wild adjustments.
> 
> I'm back to where I was earlier, using a modified set of values for alpha n, this seems to be netting me the best result. What I do need is more seat time, and alot more time to log some data. For now this will all have to wait as I've got beers to drink and the final round of the US open to watch.


 US Open? f**k I forgot that was this weekend! :laugh: 

hmm sucks it didn't work. Gonna try it on a friends car with the same problem and see if it cures it. Maybe it is the wrong method, but seems to work for me. 

Will keep you guys posted


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> ok i'll look into it. does it overshoot when it comes back?
> 
> even with cell values of 0 idle log show its still targeting the second row of values and not the row that is 0's.
> 
> :beer::beer:


 Mine does not overshoot

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

anyone knows if Maestro 7 work on WIN7 X64 ?


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

Leon mk1 said:


> anyone knows if Maestro 7 work on WIN7 X64 ?


 yes that is what i am running on my laptop :thumbup:


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## Brah (Mar 5, 2007)

I just flashed the 70mm/SEM 630 file and I literally fixed 100% of my issues. I now have a rock solid idle, no missing while cruising, etc. 

Just wanted to share :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

when you run a trace histogram, is it only comparing data from the log, or does it compare it to the map you are tracing as well? 

would be nice to have a feature that compares it to the map.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Dying to try one of these updated files with the S4 Maf. The car seems to move out good w/out the Maf, but I swear it should be way faster. Hope this fixes some of that...


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

ran some new logs yesterday. any help is appreciated 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdE00c0hpd2V1YnQ1ZHE4NmFCYmdYVWc#gid=0 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdDhVRHhjcGZ5aENUOUZGRVBnaUc4aUE#gid=0 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdE00c0hpd2V1YnQ1ZHE4NmFCYmdYVWc#gid=0


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Brah said:


> I just flashed the 70mm/SEM 630 file and I literally fixed 100% of my issues. I now have a rock solid idle, no missing while cruising, etc.
> 
> Just wanted to share :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


 how did you get that? ive asked for help from chris tapp, and never get a response:banghead:


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## Brah (Mar 5, 2007)

SGTphatboy said:


> how did you get that? ive asked for help from chris tapp, and never get a response:banghead:


 It's in the drop down menu in maestro under "base tunes"


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Brah said:


> It's in the drop down menu in maestro under "base tunes"


 is that in maestro flash or their log in page? im continuing to look


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

not finding that, and im logged into the site


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## Andaloons (Apr 16, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> not finding that, and im logged into the site


 Just open Maestro and it's an option up in the left hand top corner. Drop down the "File" menu and then "Select Base File."


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Andaloons said:


> Just open Maestro and it's an option up in the left hand top corner. Drop down the "File" menu and then "Select Base File."


 ok found it 
im scrolling through and looking to see whats in there and i see the stage3 SEM manifold, EV14 630cc file, what is the EV14? 
also i have the VW R32 TB, i thought that was 75mm not 70mm? am i mistaken?


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## Brah (Mar 5, 2007)

The throttle plate is 70mm iirc

I'm running an R throttle body as well and that's the file I'm using


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

EV14 is a type of injector. If you are running the 630cc seimens than you should choose that file, if you are running an ev14 injector than choose that one. I do believe the only 630 files are the seimens ones.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Brah said:


> The throttle plate is 70mm iirc
> 
> I'm running an R throttle body as well and that's the file I'm using


 12V/24v VR6 TB = 68mm ID 
S4 TB = 70mm ID 
R32 = 75mm ID 

Subtract 1.5-2mm for the actual Throttle plate. 2-3mm doesn't sound like much but that equates to roughly 15% variance in area. I can't remember the actual figure of the top of my head. I would try and tweak the 70mm file for that r32 TB. I'm sure there are spots your fueling correction goes way up.


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## Brah (Mar 5, 2007)

spartiati said:


> 12V/24v VR6 TB = 68mm ID
> S4 TB = 70mm ID
> R32 = 75mm ID
> 
> Subtract 1.5-2mm for the actual Throttle plate. 2-3mm doesn't sound like much but that equates to roughly 15% variance in area. I can't remember the actual figure of the top of my head. I would try and tweak the 70mm file for that r32 TB. I'm sure there are spots your fueling correction goes way up.


 :thumbup: good call. I will log and look when I get an opportunity.


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

gonna flash the new stuff before the first fire after teh rebuild


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

This IC seem pretty low to anyone? 840cc EV14 based injectors.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I see the maf part# called out in the Maf section is different than this guy which I've ordered: http://www.germanautoparts.com/Audi/S4/EngineElectrical/5/4 

Anyone using the B6 S4 maf with success?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

What rail pressure are you running those 840's at?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

3 bar.


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

left the laptop at home, does the new 630cc VVT file have an option for mafless or is it mafless?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

everything is mafless. If you want to run a MAF just plug it in. If not leave it unplugged.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Mafless, no? 

I thought you could activate the maf pretty easily just by turning it on or off in the flowmeter section.


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*My Logs*

Feel free to critque my logs. I know my car needs a lot of help. Thanks guys 
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/88124812/2012_6_17-19.39.17.DataLog.csv 

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/88124812/2012_6_18-19.27.16.DataLog.csv


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

jettaman18t said:


> Feel free to critque my logs. I know my car needs a lot of help. Thanks guys
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/88124812/2012_6_17-19.39.17.DataLog.csv
> 
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/88124812/2012_6_18-19.27.16.DataLog.csv


 Go start your own thread so we can help you figure out your problems. 

But just a few notes on your logs.. I'm assuming this is you just idling in the driveway 

your lambda correction is all over the place. 

Your lambda is all over the place. 

Go start a thread and tell us what problems you're having, what diagnostics you've done, how those diagnostics were carried out exactly, and another set of logs taken on a WOT pull from 2k-6k rpm


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

Ok I will start a new thread. I am unable to do any wot tuning currently due to my ic piping. So maybe when that gets done I will post a series of logs just so I can get a good starting point.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Ok, Turbo Build Done. Took for a test drive with manual boost controller and also N75, both times the boost went over 30psi. Is there a way with Maestro or Boost Manager I can control the boost and lover it to about 20-25? Really could use some help with this A.S.A.P.

I have the 630VVT Base File on my car.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> Ok, Turbo Build Done. Took for a test drive with manual boost controller and also N75, both times the boost went over 30psi. Is there a way with Maestro or Boost Manager I can control the boost and lover it to about 20-25? Really could use some help with this A.S.A.P.
> 
> I have the 630VVT Base File on my car.


remove the N75 from the loop. Dial down your MBC. Done.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

screwball said:


> I see the maf part# called out in the Maf section is different than this guy which I've ordered: http://www.germanautoparts.com/Audi/S4/EngineElectrical/5/4
> 
> Anyone using the B6 S4 maf with success?


I run the B6 S4 MAF... using the housing it came with- no problems. Trying to tune to my custom housing- pain in the ass.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Thanks, appreciate it. Also with Quick tune can I adjust anything there to keep the boost from going way over 30psi?



DougLoBue said:


> remove the N75 from the loop. Dial down your MBC. Done.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Thanks Doug. 

Maf just got here and my silicone adapters - new filter are on their way today. It's gonna be tight fitting the FFE catch can, Inlet pipe/Maf/Filter all before the battery. I'm dying to see what this does to the car w/ the new VVT files too. The flash I'm using is a dog until 4K.


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

The new VVT file seems to be real smooth off throttle now. still getting some breaking up when I get up high on boost/ rpms... any idea to why guys?


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

weenerdog3443 said:


> The new VVT file seems to be real smooth off throttle now. still getting some breaking up when I get up high on boost/ rpms... any idea to why guys?


Spark blowing out perhaps? What gap are you?


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Where/How is VVT enabled? Looked at the file and didn't see a tab for it.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Ok, We figured out the Boost Issue, had the hoses on the Wastegate backwards. Switched them and now a nice steady 20psi of boost. The one ? I have is with my Precision 50 Trim .48ar the Boost isn't coming on quick at all, actually very slow till I hit the 3500 RPM range then it just pulls like no tomorrow. Can't even smoke the tires in first unless I give it about 5000 rpms and 2nd gear, nothing, no chance of chirping the wheels. Is there something I can do within Maestro to get that Turbo to Spool up quicker?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

a4e3y5 said:


> Where/How is VVT enabled? Looked at the file and didn't see a tab for it.


You select the appropriate vvt enabled base file from the drop down menu. Check the base files for one that is suitable to your needs.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> You select the appropriate vvt enabled base file from the drop down menu. Check the base files for one that is suitable to your needs.


Not sure im following u. I open maestro, click open file, open whatever file i have and then left side of the screen fills with options (fuel, timing, etc). Did this but didnt see anything that says vvt..

Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Anyone have a 630 file that gives you early boost and boost throughout the RPMs. I'm looking for a file that can get me my early boost so I don't have to wait till I hit 3500 rpm range to feel my boost or feel the car pull. I have no power down early on just when I hit 3500 or more is when the power comes on.. I have the Precision 50 Trim .48ar Turbo and Precision 39mm Waste gate. 

Any and All Help would be greatly appreciated.

My email is [email protected]


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

a4e3y5 said:


> Not sure im following u. I open maestro, click open file, open whatever file i have and then left side of the screen fills with options (fuel, timing, etc). Did this but didnt see anything that says vvt..
> 
> Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


Click select base file, which will be found below open file but in the same menu(at bottom of file menu if I am not mistaken). Than select the appropriate base file.





NJ1.8T said:


> Anyone have a 630 file that gives you early boost and boost throughout the RPMs. I'm looking for a file that can get me my early boost so I don't have to wait till I hit 3500 rpm range to feel my boost or feel the car pull. I have no power down early on just when I hit 3500 or more is when the power comes on.. I have the Precision 50 Trim .48ar Turbo and Precision 39mm Waste gate.
> 
> Any and All Help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> My email is [email protected]


Maybe try a different turbo


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

a4e3y5 said:


> Not sure im following u. I open maestro, click open file, open whatever file i have and then left side of the screen fills with options (fuel, timing, etc). Did this but didnt see anything that says vvt..





sabbySC said:


> Maybe try a different turbo



Maybe. But first he should try selecting the "Cam timing map" from the left-hand menu. This will bring up your VVT control map.


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## Brah (Mar 5, 2007)

NJ1.8T said:


> Anyone have a 630 file that gives you early boost and boost throughout the RPMs. I'm looking for a file that can get me my early boost so I don't have to wait till I hit 3500 rpm range to feel my boost or feel the car pull. I have no power down early on just when I hit 3500 or more is when the power comes on.. I have the Precision 50 Trim .48ar Turbo and Precision 39mm Waste gate.
> 
> Any and All Help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> My email is [email protected]


It may not be the tune. What size is your IC plumbing?


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> Click select base file, which will be found below open file but in the same menu(at bottom of file menu if I am not mistaken). Than select the appropriate base file.





[email protected] said:


> Maybe. But first he should try selecting the "Cam timing map" from the left-hand menu. This will bring up your VVT control map.


Thxs guys! I'll ck that out and report back.



NJ1.8T said:


> Anyone have a 630 file that gives you early boost and boost throughout the RPMs. I'm looking for a file that can get me my early boost so I don't have to wait till I hit 3500 rpm range to feel my boost or feel the car pull.





Brah said:


> It may not be the tune. What size is your IC plumbing?


X2. That's pretty much how my 50 used to behave when I had the .48ar. U can also ck for leaks, but for the most part, that's the way it is.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Its the Kinetic Kit which I believe is 2.75 -3" IC piping!





Brah said:


> It may not be the tune. What size is your IC plumbing?


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

My kinetic kit has 2" hot side and 2.5" cold. Hope this helps.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Its the kit that cam with the CTS Turbo MKIV Kit. It probably is what you have. I just wish there was a way to get a little better response earlier n the boost range! Maybe I can bring it to someone who does Maestro Tuning on a Dyno and see what they can do!




Three3Se7en said:


> My kinetic kit has 2" hot side and 2.5" cold. Hope this helps.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Can increasing the Compression Ratio or Timing get the 50 Trim to spool a little quicker?


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Yes.. throwing timing at it will help spool somewhat. The 50 trim is a lazy Turbo however, and the spool you're seeing is normal. 

If you want faster spool; switch to a gt3071


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

The VVT stuff's supposed to help, but yeah, you're looking at a new turbo if you want better spool. Even a BB CHRA would help, but it's about a grand just for that on a 50 which puts you near new 3071R territory.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Thanks Guys, Appreciate the input. Well just picked up the car today after they finished putting in the fuel pump. 
Anyway, I noticed that on my Boost Gauge at idle I am running around 10-12 HG. Isn't it suppose to be around 20HG or so?


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

NJ1.8T said:


> Thanks Guys, Appreciate the input. Well just picked up the car today after they finished putting in the fuel pump.
> Anyway, I noticed that on my Boos Gauge at idol I am running around 10-12 HG. Isn't it suppose to be around 20HG or so?


OMG.. pressure test that sucker STAT!!


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Just downloaded the new 630 file (VVT) and noticed some of the maps are quite diffrent....am I seeing rite?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Where can I go to get pressure checked. Do any stores have something I can buy to check it? This is my first Big Turbo and well never had any problems with the KO3s which always stayed right at 21-22HG




*+NEIL*+DIAMOND*+ said:


> OMG.. pressure test that sucker STAT!!


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

^^^most likely a vacum hose. Thres a DIY where u can ck it urself. i believe is a the top of this forum (stickies)


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## Brah (Mar 5, 2007)

You can tune it all you want, but it's not gunna change that much. If the IC plumbing is that big it's gunna take a while to spool. That's a lot of volume. 

I use 2" charger pipe and 2.5" throttle body pipe. My 50 trim spooled to 22psi by 4200. Like stated before, its a lagy/lazy turbo. 

I switched to a bb 6262 and it spools close to the same as my journal bearing 50trim. A little later, not much tho


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

im wondering if i should try another base tune. still running really rich and still no help from chris tapp. driving 4.5 hours to rennen performance to see if they can help me next week. if we get no where on the dyno with tuning this thing, im selling it. pretty frustrated
thank rac_337 for helping me as mush as you have, i owe ya a beer


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Anyone ever have there Wastegate Hoses heat up to the point they become brittle and break. Mine just did now I am trying to figure out what kind of hose to get and how to protect them from the turbo heat! 
Anyone know of good hose that won't melt, heat up and become brittle from the heat? Where can I get it?


----------



## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

NJ1.8T said:


> Anyone ever have there Wastegate Hoses heat up to the point they become brittle and break. Mine just did now I am trying to figure out what kind of hose to get and how to protect them from the turbo heat!
> Anyone know of good hose that won't melt, heat up and become brittle from the heat? Where can I get it?


that same very thing happened to me recently. i just wrapped it in heat tape, havent had an issue since


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

What brand of heat tape did you use? Thanks for your help by the way!!



SGTphatboy said:


> that same very thing happened to me recently. i just wrapped it in heat tape, havent had an issue since


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

SGTphatboy said:


> im wondering if i should try another base tune. still running really rich and still no help from chris tapp. driving 4.5 hours to rennen performance to see if they can help me next week. if we get no where on the dyno with tuning this thing, im selling it. pretty frustrated
> thank rac_337 for helping me as mush as you have, i owe ya a beer


Install a maf bro


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## Brah (Mar 5, 2007)

NJ1.8T said:


> Anyone ever have there Wastegate Hoses heat up to the point they become brittle and break. Mine just did now I am trying to figure out what kind of hose to get and how to protect them from the turbo heat!
> Anyone know of good hose that won't melt, heat up and become brittle from the heat? Where can I get it?


I use Aeroquip pushlock hoses and "dash" fittings from the turbo, wastegate, and N75. Never had an issue :thumbup:


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

how did a 6262 get compared to a 50 trim?


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I've gotta have hardware problems cause my car no likey the VVT_SEM_70mm_630 file at all. 15:1 at WOT-22lbs before I let off.


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

screwball said:


> I've gotta have hardware problems cause my car no likey the VVT_SEM_70mm_630 file at all. 15:1 at WOT-22lbs before I let off.


Mine doesn't like it either. Stalls when coming to a stop, idles to rich, and is generally not that great. If you want i could send you a copy of my current file to try out.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I can't get the Switching active to stay on. when I check the switching box it says code doesn't match, certain features disabled. Chris sent me a new code to try but still the same thing. I just can't figure this out!!


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Sebastien, I'll shoot you an email dude.

S4 maf is in, I had to hack up part of Arnolds purdy inlet on this PAG setup, I hope this thing helps


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

screwball said:


> Sebastien, I'll shoot you an email dude.
> 
> S4 maf is in, I had to hack up part of Arnolds purdy inlet on this PAG setup, I hope this thing helps


I'm curious myself, keep us posted:thumbup:


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

try resetting all the corrections maps. i noticed alot of em are modifed on that file. and try lowering the exhaust temp threshold for full load lambda. i noticed the vvt file has it almost 300 degrees higher and the power enrichment maps are different so maybe lower that to have full load lambda working. also raise your minimum pulsewidth i noticed its like .34 when i checked but other files its like .75 

also the bvc table is way different than the seimens default values. 

good luck!!


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Has anyone tweaked the 630VVT File in which you have a smooth idle and also power early in the RPM Range? If so would you be willing to let me try that file? My email is [email protected]

Would really appreciate it if you could send me the fiile just to see how it runs on my 1.8 Jetta.


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

NJ1.8T said:


> Has anyone tweaked the 630VVT File in which you have a smooth idle and also power early in the RPM Range? If so would you be willing to let me try that file? My email is [email protected]
> 
> Would really appreciate it if you could send me the fiile just to see how it runs on my 1.8 Jetta.


Like I said in your other post, check block 032 and adjust BVC and IC accordingly to help idle out... You have a 50 trim now not a KO3, your not going to get instant boost this has been covered... I'm assuming you have Maestro to make these adjustments.. 

Read this to help adjust BVC and IC, its been covered a million times

first block in 032 X Injector Constant = time in MS.

the 032 block is in %. You injector constant is in ms/%. so..... % x ms/% (%) cancels out and you're left with (ms). This method is ONLY for adjusting Voltage Compensation.

The second block is simply scaling your injector constant by the second value in 032.
Example... 032: -1.875 +5% 
Original hypothetical Constant = 0.05000

-1.875% x 0.0500ms/% = 0.09375ms


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I really wish I knew what all that means. I am use to just having a GIAC file but when I went with the 50 Trim I got Maestro so I can learn how to tweak and make it run better. I'm just trying to learn about it and how to do things. Thanks for your input. I guess first and foremost I should bring it to my closest Maestro dealer which would be EuroWise and have them Dyno Tune it for me so I can see and learn what can and can't be done.



One-Eight GTI said:


> Like I said in your other post, check block 032 and adjust BVC and IC accordingly to help idle out... You have a 50 trim now not a KO3, your not going to get instant boost this has been covered... I'm assuming you have Maestro to make these adjustments..
> 
> Read this to help adjust BVC and IC, its been covered a million times
> 
> ...


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

NJ1.8T said:


> I really wish I knew what all that means. I am use to just having a GIAC file but when I went with the 50 Trim I got Maestro so I can learn how to tweak and make it run better. I'm just trying to learn about it and how to do things. Thanks for your input. I guess first and foremost I should bring it to my closest Maestro dealer which would be EuroWise and have them Dyno Tune it for me so I can see and learn what can and can't be done.


 
Honestly the IC and BVC are the most easy things to adjust, trust me... But yeah a dyno tune would be a good way to go:thumbup:

The only thing I recommend is make sure your car is good hardware wise before making adjustments to BVC and IC... Thise vacuum leaks you have had will throw everything off.. I would reset your fuel trims by disconnecting battery or reflashing your base file in again, now that you think you have your vacuum leaks taken care of leaks taken care of


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I do have one problem, its the switching active, I can't get it to stay on. Chris had me send him a new generated code. We tried it once before but it didn't work so I am hoping this time it works.
The cars hardware is brand new and everything looks and works great. 
Ok, for the BVC and IC, where would I go in Maestro to check those or teak them?
Also I am running N75K valve, would it be better to run a MBC?

Kinda wish Vortex had a Instant Messenger




One-Eight GTI said:


> Honestly the IC and BVC are the most easy things to adjust, trust me... But yeah a dyno tune would be a good way to go:thumbup:
> 
> The only thing I recommend is make sure your car is good hardware wise before making adjustments to BVC and IC... Thise vacuum leaks you have had will throw everything off.. I would reset your fuel trims by disconnecting battery or reflashing your base file in again, now that you think you have your vacuum leaks taken care of leaks taken care of


----------



## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

NJ1.8T said:


> Kinda wish Vortex had a Instant Messenger


It does.. its called PM


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Really Now, I didn't know that! Just saying an IM is easier and fast and doesn't take up thread space!


*+NEIL*+DIAMOND*+ said:


> It does.. its called PM


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

So what turbo setup are you running and what file on Maestro are you running?




*+NEIL*+DIAMOND*+ said:


> It does.. its called PM


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

He's got more brains than most, he's not ****ign with front wheel drive.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

NJ1.8T said:


> Really Now, I didn't know that! Just saying an IM is easier and fast and doesn't take up thread space!


Umadbro?







NJ1.8T said:


> So what turbo setup are you running and what file on Maestro are you running?


 I was running a base 630 mafless file on an 01" aww last time around with maestro on a 50 trim. I was running the usrt Genesis 550's @ 4 bar if that means anything to ya.

Currently working on a 90' coupeq that will be running an 06a 1.8t on wideband maestro as well.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Sounds like the 90 will be running some nice high HP numbers. I'm not mad, I guess I just get frustrated when the engine just doesn't want to run right.
My HG now is at 20-22 which is where I like it. Its just that rough idle and also the Boost, seems like the boost in 2nd gear wants to go up and over 30psi. I tried adjusting it but don't think it works unless that Active Switching is turned on and for some reason it won't accept the generated code. Just waiting on Chris Tapp to send me a code to try.



*+NEIL*+DIAMOND*+ said:


> Umadbro?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Just run a ball and spring mbc inline after the n75 to cap the boost.

Meh. The coupe is just gonna be a quick street car. Gt30x of some type, stock head, bottom end with just rods; nothing fancy. Was gonna go vrt, but I've had this longblock with rods just sitting here, gotta use it for something


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

So keep the N75 plugged in Electronically and use the MBC to control the Boost.




*+NEIL*+DIAMOND*+ said:


> Just run a ball and spring mbc inline after the n75 to cap the boost.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

NJ1.8T said:


> So keep the N75 plugged in Electronically and use the MBC to control the Boost.


No.. use the n75, but put a mbc in between it, and the wastegate to just cap the spikes.

Know what I mean? Install that mbc in the middle of the vacuum line going from the n75 to the wastegate.

N75> vacuum line> mbc> wastegate


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Like an overboost solution kit.










*+NEIL*+DIAMOND*+ said:


> No.. use the n75, but put a mbc in between it, and the wastegate to just cap the spikes.
> 
> Know what I mean? Install that mbc in the middle of the vacuum line going from the n75 to the wastegate.
> 
> N75> vacuum line> mbc> wastegate


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Thats overly complex, and unnecessary for what you need tho. A simple ball and spring type mbc stuck in the line in between the n75 and wastegate will do what you need. The n75 will act normally, and control the show. The mbc just caps the spikes at whatever you set it.

DO NOT USE A BLEED TYPE MBC..

This is a simple, effective, reliable $50- fix..


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I think people with Maestro Tuned Cars should share some files or at least make a thread. I'm running the 630vvt file for my 50trim .48ar
It would be awesome for people who have changed up the tunes to share them for others to at least try and see how they feel. Do a thread where everyone posts what hardware they are running and then the file they are running. I am sure there are a few different 630 tunes out there along with other injector setups and Turbo setups.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

With the Step 2, How do I set it so it allows revs to drop faster so you can change gears faster. 
Thanks for your help as I am still learning about Maestro and appreciate your guys input.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

So more like this then.












*+NEIL*+DIAMOND*+ said:


> Thats overly complex, and unnecessary for what you need tho. A simple ball and spring type mbc stuck in the line in between the n75 and wastegate will do what you need. The n75 will act normally, and control the show. The mbc just caps the spikes at whatever you set it.
> 
> DO NOT USE A BLEED TYPE MBC..
> 
> This is a simple, effective, reliable $50- fix..


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

*+NEIL*+DIAMOND*+ said:


> Thats overly complex, and unnecessary for what you need tho. A simple ball and spring type mbc stuck in the line in between the n75 and wastegate will do what you need. The n75 will act normally, and control the show. The mbc just caps the spikes at whatever you set it.
> 
> DO NOT USE A BLEED TYPE MBC..
> 
> This is a simple, effective, reliable $50- fix..


although this may work for you the previous method is the only way to do it right. install another valve inline will only create two valves both bleeding air. didnt work for me at least. installing them in parrallel is the proper way. like if your mbc is before the n75 it bleeds off air then the n75 bleeds off more after creating higher boost. if its after the n75 the n75 will not feed the second boost control enough pressure and a spike will happen anyways. i run both in parralel and its flawless. 

even tho i have an aem truboost ebc i still couldnt control boost like i wanted until i added the n75. and my part throttle is way nicer


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Tojr which correction maps specifically should I be resetting?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

couple quick questions:
1. stage3 SEMmanifold 70mmTB 630cc
2. stage3 SEMmanifold EV14 630cc
whats the difference between the 2?
and if i have the SEM80mm manifold and the VR6TB which one would i have?

and i see all this discussion about the S4 MAF, are most mafless file users going to the MAF? and would this help with my running rich, 16.3a/fr?

i keep searching through eurodynes site and cannot really find where the "how to" adjust the neccessary items to get it right.

i do have some logs up on here for google docs if anyone wants to take a look.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

screwball said:


> Tojr which correction maps specifically should I be resetting?


All of them 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

wtf does that mean, lol...


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> couple quick questions:
> 1. stage3 SEMmanifold 70mmTB 630cc
> 2. stage3 SEMmanifold EV14 630cc
> whats the difference between the 2?
> ...



the first is the seimens 630 file. the second is an ev14 630 file.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> the first is the seimens 630 file. the second is an ev14 630 file.


and if u have a vr8 tb which i beleive is 65mm then u would be better off with the sem 70mm file. the manifold may be 80mm but the throttle body is the means of determining the airflow size if you will. go by the throttle body not the manifold size. if u have the vr6 tb the 70mm file may still run a lil rich. run a maf and ull be fine. i recommend the 85mm hitachi s4 maf above all others. rather than the bosch s4 maf.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

screwball said:


> wtf does that mean, lol...


lmao there are only 3 correction maps i beleive

1. injection correction
2. main fuel correction
3. airflow meter correction


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

screwball said:


> I've gotta have hardware problems cause my car no likey the VVT_SEM_70mm_630 file at all. 15:1 at WOT-22lbs before I let off.


also pm me with all your setup specs. fuel pressure regulator everything. maf etc. 

ill work that file for you to try and email it to you.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> the first is the seimens 630 file. the second is an ev14 630 file.


ok thank you tojr.

i may go ahead and load that and see what happens. would you be interested in taking a look at my logs? im running really rich, and so far the only answer ive gotten is get a MAF. any help would be appreciated:beer:


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> and if u have a vr8 tb which i beleive is 65mm then u would be better off with the sem 70mm file. the manifold may be 80mm but the throttle body is the means of determining the airflow size if you will. go by the throttle body not the manifold size. if u have the vr6 tb the 70mm file may still run a lil rich. run a maf and ull be fine. i recommend the 85mm hitachi s4 maf above all others. rather than the bosch s4 maf.


ahhh ok, i will look into purchasing one of those. will just have cut my PPT inlet down.

thanks for the help man greatly appreciated:beer:


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> ahhh ok, i will look into purchasing one of those. will just have cut my PPT inlet down.
> 
> thanks for the help man greatly appreciated:beer:


does anyone have the part number for the* 85mm hitachi s4 maf?*


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> does anyone have the part number for the* 85mm hitachi s4 maf?*


okis what i found for a part number:

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_S4--2.7T/By_Brand/H-J/Hitachi/

just want to make sure this is the right one before i buy it


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

tojr1088 said:


> also pm me with all your setup specs. fuel pressure regulator everything. maf etc.
> 
> ill work that file for you to try and email it to you.


that's very kind of you. I'll shoot you some info around lunch.

Thanks.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> okis what i found for a part number:
> 
> http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_S4--2.7T/By_Brand/H-J/Hitachi/
> 
> just want to make sure this is the right one before i buy it


That's it but I'm not sure if there 85mm or not. I believe u need that sensor and u have to put it in a 85mm housing. I think vast performance has em. And u need the new plug they sell too. If its too much of a hassle just run the 4.2 v8 maf. I found that one good too. Hitachi sensors last longer and are more precise tho

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

The ID of the sensor is more like 72mm and the OD is 3.5". I had one and measured it, put the info up somewhere but can't find it.

To make it work with the build in Maestro profile you're going to need to use the housing it comes in.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> The ID of the sensor is more like 72mm and the OD is 3.5". I had one and measured it, put the info up somewhere but can't find it.
> 
> To make it work with the build in Maestro profile you're going to need to use the housing it comes in.


I wasn't sure if maestro specified id or od. Thanks for clarifying

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> That's it but I'm not sure if there 85mm or not. I believe u need that sensor and u have to put it in a 85mm housing. I think vast performance has em. And u need the new plug they sell too. If its too much of a hassle just run the 4.2 v8 maf. I found that one good too. Hitachi sensors last longer and are more precise tho
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2





DougLoBue said:


> The ID of the sensor is more like 72mm and the OD is 3.5". I had one and measured it, put the info up somewhere but can't find it.
> 
> To make it work with the build in Maestro profile you're going to need to use the housing it comes in.


so either the s4 turbo or the v8 s4 maf will work? and iif i go with the 2002s4 maf just leave in stock housing? do i understand this correctly?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

i also emailed eurodyne about the s4 MAF and asked what they thought. this was the response::

If you want to use a maf, that’s up to you. Any of the stage 3 base files can be used with a maf, and are loaded with the 2000 S4 profile by default.

You do not request files from me, all the available base files are available in Maestro.

seems a bit cold for a response but if thats the norm then im fine with it...its frustrating but you guys on the forum have been more help then [email protected]

thank you again


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> seems a bit cold for a response but if thats the norm then im fine with it...its frustrating but you guys on the forum have been more help then [email protected]


You can retune for any MAF and try to scale it to any housing you want. He has four profiles built into Maestro and you can select any one of them. I have both a B5 Hitatchi and B6 S4 V8 MAF's and housings and use the B6 S4 on my car scaled for a 98mm (real 4" housing).

His short replies are due to 100's to thousands of emails coming in with the same questions. Now the user isn't always at fault because I've never seen a paper or PDF manual of the basics of Maestro. There really needs to be one like a 10 step process of how to get your car working then pointing users to forums for deeper tuning advice.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*tojr1088*

Your MailBox is Full so I couldn't send you a PM
Heres the info on what I have in my car.

I have the following on and in my motor:
Running Mafless with N75K Valve but also have MBC if Needed
Precision 50 Trim .48ar Thermal Coated Turbine Housing and Exhaust Manifold
Precision 39mm external wastegate
Bahn Brenner 6an Fuel rail with FPR Adapter 4 bar and 630 Injectors
CTS Front Mount IC good for 450HP
Integrated Engineering Rods, All bolts and studs ARP
034 Motorsports Intake Mani Spacer
3" Downpipe Catless into a 2.5 Catback
Clutchmasters FX400 Clutch
Wavtrac LSD
VF Engineering Engine and Trans Mounts
3" Cold Air Intake
New Throttle Body Hose by Powerhaus
43 Drat Design oil Catch Can
All new belts , Timing, Thermostat, Gaskets and so on.

Thanks Harvey Whats you name?





tojr1088 said:


> I wasn't sure if maestro specified id or od. Thanks for clarifying
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> Now the user isn't always at fault because I've never seen a paper or PDF manual of the basics of Maestro. There really needs to be one like a 10 step process of how to get your car working then pointing users to forums for deeper tuning advice.



^^ Would benefit his product as most people only shy away from it due to the lack of DIRECT info:beer:


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

SGTphatboy said:


> so either the s4 turbo or the v8 s4 maf will work? and iif i go with the 2002s4 maf just leave in stock housing? do i understand this correctly?


nope, the whole point is to use a larger housing, as more air enters the motAr then the stock sized housing Al :thumbup: the reason you use an maf element as that is what it is scaled to in relation to the size of the housing...technically you can run any maf element you want as long as you scale it to the correct maf housing size for your application


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

What about running Mafless like I am doing. I know the 630VVT is just a basic file but I also know there are tweaks to be made. I just don't know how to make them. I am hoping that someone has the same Turbo as me and made some sweet tweaks and that can share that file with me.



18T_BT said:


> nope, the whole point is to use a larger housing, as more air enters the motAr then the stock sized housing Al :thumbup: the reason you use an maf element as that is what it is scaled to in relation to the size of the housing...technically you can run any maf element you want as long as you scale it to the correct maf housing size for your application


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

NJ1.8T said:


> What about running Mafless like I am doing. I know the 630VVT is just a basic file but I also know there are tweaks to be made. I just don't know how to make them. I am hoping that someone has the same Turbo as me and made some sweet tweaks and that can share that file with me.


If you are running mafless, then you don't need a maf right? What's your question? You should log your car to see how it's performing, create a thread about it and people will help you. What specific 'tweaks' are you looking for?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

DougLoBue said:


> You can retune for any MAF and try to scale it to any housing you want. He has four profiles built into Maestro and you can select any one of them. I have both a B5 Hitatchi and B6 S4 V8 MAF's and housings and use the B6 S4 on my car scaled for a 98mm (real 4" housing).
> 
> His short replies are due to 100's to thousands of emails coming in with the same questions. Now the user isn't always at fault because I've never seen a paper or PDF manual of the basics of Maestro. There really needs to be one like a 10 step process of how to get your car working then pointing users to forums for deeper tuning advice.


not sure how to scale for them, but when i get the MAF(just ordered) i will try to look it up on here.

i understand everyone gets buys, but ive been asking hm for assitance for ayear now.....gets a little fristrating man. but its all good, you guys on here are taking great care of everyone, hope to be able to pay it forward at some point


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

SGTphatboy said:


> not sure how to scale for them, but when i get the MAF(just ordered) i will try to look it up on here.
> 
> i understand everyone gets buys, but ive been asking hm for assitance for ayear now.....gets a little fristrating man. but its all good, you guys on here are taking great care of everyone, hope to be able to pay it forward at some point


Hope this helps you Al: http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=995


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

18T_BT said:


> Hope this helps you Al: http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=995


ok thatsnot so bad, thanks alot brother.:beer:

but the last time i followed his how to section, i emailed him because i thought there was aproblem and he replied with i no longer have to do a flash load like that anymore....so i hope its up to date.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

hitachi s4 MAF ordered, should see it in a couple days. 

than ks everyone for the help


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

the hitachi maf has a different plug than what we have...i presume you know that, not hard to modify with a new pigtail: http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/pdf/RSK04_27T_fueling_UPDATE_2.0.pdf


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Just got the Turbo installed last week and I am still learning the maestro. How would I go about logging my car to see how its performing, are there certain blocks I need to choose to log it. 



18T_BT said:


> If you are running mafless, then you don't need a maf right? What's your question? You should log your car to see how it's performing, create a thread about it and people will help you. What specific 'tweaks' are you looking for?


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Nj1.8t I sent you a private message


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Maestro Log is what you want, it logs all the major blocks needed to adjust accordingly.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Thanks I will do a log as soon as I can!


screwball said:


> Maestro Log is what you want, it logs all the major blocks needed to adjust accordingly.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

so the b6 s4 maf is 4" right? i've been looking into putting a maf on my setup and my turbo inlet is 4" so that would work perfectly..


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

18T_BT said:


> Hope this helps you Al: http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=995


if your using a maf from one of the 4 in maestro no need to rescale.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

dubbin_boho said:


> so the b6 s4 maf is 4" right? i've been looking into putting a maf on my setup and my turbo inlet is 4" so that would work perfectly..


it is NOT a b6 s4 maf idk why everyones confused. it even says v8 maf and gives the part number right there which is off a d2 a8 and its not 4 inch its more like 3.5. i run it and it works fine. not as precise as a hitachi tho.


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

Quick question, ive searched and can't find this. I am looking for SAI delete software on an AMU and am on revo atm but looking to go to maestro on a wideband ecu. Is there an option for upgrading from an out of the box tune eurodyne stage 1 tune to maestro? 

My SAI died and rather than fix it I'm going to delete it along with the other stuff and am trying to get a software delete so i dont CEL at the emissions station.

I think I remember seeing somewhere that it is $500 dollar upgrade to go to maestro but want to confirm before getting the off the shelf tune and being stuck paying additional 800 bucks when I could just go straight there although I would prefer waiting to go full maestro until I get injectors/fp. 

Thanks much!


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

I don't think u can do that. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Has anybody running the new 630 VVT (No big TB/Intake) got code p0171? Flashed my car 2 days ago. Today did a 2nd gear pull and then cruising in traffic (about 35mph). All of the sudden, CEL came off with p0171. Haven't been able to log the car, but wanted to know if other people have had this problem. I see people with big intake having this problem though.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

cruzanstx said:


> Quick question, ive searched and can't find this. I am looking for SAI delete software on an AMU and am on revo atm but looking to go to maestro on a wideband ecu. Is there an option for upgrading from an out of the box tune eurodyne stage 1 tune to maestro?
> 
> My SAI died and rather than fix it I'm going to delete it along with the other stuff and am trying to get a software delete so i dont CEL at the emissions station.
> 
> ...


You can upgrade to maestro, but I'm not sure what the pricing would be. Seems like you should just get maestro straight away though, it's not just for big turbo cars, it'll work fine on your stock turbo car as well.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Can anyone who is on e85 share their ignition timing map for comparison?


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## CourtX (Aug 13, 2011)

hey guys

My MAP sensor is broken.. is it possible to just not use it with maestro, I still have a MAF that I know you can get rid of but is it possible to get rid of the MAP

thanks!


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

CourtX said:


> hey guys
> 
> My MAP sensor is broken.. is it possible to just not use it with maestro, I still have a MAF that I know you can get rid of but is it possible to get rid of the MAP
> 
> thanks!


Install a new map sensor duder.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

CourtX said:


> hey guys
> 
> My MAP sensor is broken.. is it possible to just not use it with maestro, I still have a MAF that I know you can get rid of but is it possible to get rid of the MAP
> 
> thanks!


No. You need it.


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## CourtX (Aug 13, 2011)

Okay, i was hoping that it could gather enough of the info it needs from the MAF that i still have. Looks like my car is stranded for a bit, thanks guys.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

sad day  usb fell out during the last block of flashing. ecu seems bricked to me. anyone conquer this. if i cant its overnighting to pagparts lol


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

screwball said:


> You can upgrade to maestro, but I'm not sure what the pricing would be. Seems like you should just get maestro straight away though, it's not just for big turbo cars, it'll work fine on your stock turbo car as well.


yah i got done talking with local dealer and they only do maestro now, no stand alones  but its all good, just a kick in the nads to do it now! so this weekend i'll be official!!


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> sad day  usb fell out during the last block of flashing. ecu seems bricked to me. anyone conquer this. if i cant its overnighting to pagparts lol


I've done that, never had the ecu brick on me. My fingers are crossed for you.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

tojr1088 said:


> sad day  usb fell out during the last block of flashing. ecu seems bricked to me. anyone conquer this. if i cant its overnighting to pagparts lol


unplug battery for 10 minutes, plug back in key on and try to write.

if bricked on last block, thats a checksum block, you should be able to connect still at this point after doing the battery unhook method with standard flash tools, which the maestro is essentially


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

RaraK69 said:


> unplug battery for 10 minutes, plug back in key on and try to write.
> 
> if bricked on last block, thats a checksum block, you should be able to connect still at this point after doing the battery unhook method with standard flash tools, which the maestro is essentially


that was my first plan. did that. im letting the ecu sit out of the car overnight and ill try again 

it never got to the checksum part of block 18 it was still in the writing of it. now it just key on and no cel or starting or reading anything


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

If my main fuel is genrally lean across the board, can I increase IC to compensate for this?

im running a stock 3 bar fpr but for some reason my actual pressure reading on the mechanical gauge is only 37psi...


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Maybe fix that first. Ic may help but id look into a fuel problem first 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> Maybe fix that first. Ic may help but id look into a fuel problem first
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


well im going to try a filter and maybe an fpr, but I cant see it being anything else as both pumps are pretty much new.

cheers :beer:


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Has anyone here played with acceleration fuel/deceleration fuel tables?

Side note: just got my car to drive at most loads and idle with 2200cc injectors on e85. Took awhile.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

2200cc. Praise Jesus. 

And nah I've never messed with them and I really don't think they should be touched. If anything it'd be one of the last things to dial in. I believe the acceleration fuel is just for when u accelerate but haven't crossed threshold for the torque requirement of power enrichment or the Egt for full load lambda.

Also there isn't a map description and I dont really understand the values. 

Wish my ecu didn't brick. I had just.finally figured out why my 70mm 630 file wasn't idling perfect and why when I had my idle trim dialed in my part throttle cruising loads were super lean causing the long term trim to adapt rich then making high loads pull back the trims and never getting a solid figure.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

18T_BT said:


> the hitachi maf has a different plug than what we have...i presume you know that, not hard to modify with a new pigtail: http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/pdf/RSK04_27T_fueling_UPDATE_2.0.pdf


actually i didn not know that.....i do now though, is the pig tail conversion hard? and which base file should i choose? will have it on a hub dyno next week


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> if your using a maf from one of the 4 in maestro no need to rescale.


oh ok thanks torj and BT1.8T i owe you guys beers for sure:beer::beer:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

tojr1088 said:


> finally figured out why my 70mm 630 file wasn't idling perfect and why when I had my idle trim dialed in my part throttle cruising loads were super lean causing the long term trim to adapt rich then making high loads pull back the trims and never getting a solid figure.


What was the problem?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

ok to add to my previous post regarding idle problems and fuel trims not leveling out. i have a bit of *VALUABLE information* regarding people who may have problems like mine in that my idle fuel trim i may be able to dial in nice but then my bvc is way too high causing rev hangs and also having problems where your lower load part throttle adapts and your part throttle trim goes really high but then under higher loads it pulls it back lean again causing part throttle fuel trim to never level out. Or if when you press the clutch to stop you loose corrections and go 11:1 afr for few seconds before going bck to 14.7 for idle

*THIS MAY HELP YOU*

Ill try to explain as thourough as i can as i have been doing alot of research and studying the differences in these base files.

*This may help others but this is the audience im targeting because i only have experience with said files/hardware*
1.)you have 630cc seimens injectors
2.)you have a non vvt car either awm/awp but you have a 70mm throttle body 

*This may help others who have intakes manifolds/headwork/ whatever but i will share my info and you guys can try but i cant answer questions to what i havent had experience using
*
my setup:
2000 b5 s4 which i put my built aeb motor in 
4.2 maf
hta3082
630cc injectors @4bar
70mm throttle body
awm harness and ecu

Ok so im aware that awp/awm files are interchangeable and ive tried awp and awm files on my awm. 
now that the 70mm vvt sem file is out i like most others who dont have vvt imported the airflow vs throttle map and alpha n into my awm file and even added a maf to hopefully finally dial my car in but to no avail.

*Well i did some idle logs and also checked on my brothers uni 630cc file (3 bar) which idles and runs perfect and noted the following*
1.)My idle timing was way low which i always suspected and i was idling with negative timing most of the time
2.)throttle plate opening at idle was 1.17%
3.) airflow was ~12 kg/hr which seemed not to far off in the throttle vs airflow table

Now before i start trying adjusting flowmeter corrections or any corrections maps which i originally was going to i decided that there has to be something alot more drastic that needs changing for my idle trim to be perfect and my injector constant making WOT fine but then light loads and most cruising wants to add almost 20 percent depending on how low the load is.

After all i dont feel correction maps should have huge amounts of correction at all and when i look at my airflow in the log at periods above idle the matches up well with the throttle vs airflow table

*So after studying differences between the awm/awp non vvt 630 files and the awp sem 70mm 630 file i noted the following*
1.)The idle torque map on the 70mm file is different in that the x axis goes higher in load and the torque desired per engine load value is higher. (more throttle opening to acheive the same engine load)
2.)accelerator map is different (less steep in lower rpms due to higher flow which is obvious)
2.)The idle speed on the awm file is 880 rpm and the all the awp is 900rpm.

*So after a lot of thinking i started realizing something.*
-my awm files torque map when idling at 880 rpm and 22%load calls for a throttle opening of about the 1.17% as so with my logs.
-BUT on the awp 70mm file the same load value of 22% and 880rpm calls for a torque value of 1.95%
-my car idles at -17 hg most of the time and i know theres no leaks for sure. still get -21 on decel which is normal for the aeb head and 2.5 ic piping and larger tb. althought at idle i still think vacuum should be slightly lower which means if i have no leaks that my engine load is too high causing timing at idle to be too low creating less vacuum. Which seems to be true. 

since i didnt have the 70mm idle torque map my car was opening the throttle at idle to 1.17% which as specified in the idle torque map was to put out 22 ish percent load which it was. So when i look at the awp 70mm idle torque map i noticed that for most normal engine load and idle situations the torque value was 1.95 percent. So my throttle should be very close to that at idle to acheive the same load value as the awm file even when factoring the 20rpm higher idle from the 70mm file idle rpm.

Now my understanding is that in my situation the throttle opening for idle is first determined by the maf reading determining the load value. then the torque value (throttle opening) is is determined by the maf load calculation at whatever rpm your idling. Im assuming that the torque values in this map are actual torque and not requested torque seen in the accelerator pedal map. 

Now we move on to my airflow readings. which according to the airflow vs. throttle map (which i still dont know for sure is even used for idle but i dont see why not) is 13.8 kg/hr at 2.49% throttle plate and my idle was showing 12kg/hr at 1.17% throttle. seems a good amount off for idle resulting in a higher engine load at idle causing my throttle to be opened by the idle torque to 1.17% and timing to be decreased to keep the idle torque maps specified ~22% engine load.

*Higher engine load = higher injector pulsewidth=too rich*

After all this we get to the main course, 
*THE FUEL TRIM ISSUE:
*
Since i have the new idle torque map my idle throttle should be 1.95% which by looking at the map will pretty much be the same at 900 or 880 rpms for most of the maps load axis. So this lets me more accurately point me in the direction of the maf actually reading the airflow too high for loads at idle which is where it noticeably is off from the throttle vs. airflow table which could be even more off at a 900 rpm idle instead of my 880. so either by correcting throttle vs. arflow or the flowmeter corrections in these areas i can lower my idle load. 

I am looking at adjusting the first line (2.49%throttle) of the throttle airflow map but im not sure since idk if that map affects the actual airflow reading below 2.49 or if it even comes into play while idling.The decription says the map is used to determine throttle angle depending on airflow reading. so changing this i feel will in turn only make the throttle angle bigger or smaller after 2.49%. Flowmeter correction may be the way to go.

Keep in mind that idle load in my logs was 22% and also if i go part throttle just past idle my load is not much different/ maybe even lower but with almost 40 degrees more timing. Thus the all the sudden lean conditions anything over idle. So my bvc ends up way too high because my engine load at idle was too high. so my bvc was essential fueling for a 22% load which at part throttle is not much larger. DONT FORGET!! when i was idling my load may be similar to part throttle but the injector constant was also very similar meaning my idle trim and bvc were calibrated for a pulsewidth also required for the same load and 40 degrees more timing. hmmmmmmm

By whatever way its done regarding flowmeter adjustment, the load at idle has to get down so the pulsewidth at idle is far lower. Some people in other post have talked about minimum pulsewidth being lowered or lower values for bvc but the starting point has to be first getting your load calculation right. then deal with that or you will never get it perfect. You can lower your minimum pulsewidth all you want but if your specified load at idle is way too high like mine your ecu will make the pulsewidth high no matter what. And if your pulsewidth is way too low once you get your load right then u can add more to the minimum pw then after you calibrate bvc and your car idle will compensate by giving more timing at idle to keep the same calculated load. 

For mafless people i beleive the alhpa n may work for you cause that map applies a theoretical airflow depending on throttle % so that should work. the throttle airflow applies a throttle angle via airflow and is opposite in function. I also notice that in the 70mm file the first line on the aplha n says 2.5 throttle gives 18 kg/hr airflow which is different from the 13.8kg/hr in the airflow throttle map for 2.49% angle. Seems interesting in that the alpha n airflow values for idle throttle openings would seem more inline with my logged values. and technically these tables are supposed to match and they do mostly everywhere except the first line. 

This will also help people who after pushing in the clutch while cruising have the car go 11:1 afr and lose corrections briefly before idling at 14.7. This is due to the part throttle trim having been too high soo now the car is going from running said amount of fuel at part throttle load and timing to running very close in load but very low in timing at idle. Going from lean part throttle to super reach idle. With the load not having a nice dividing line for idle to separate from part throttle the ecu i beleive takes a few seconds to realize the transition to idle is being made and keeps using your part throttle value for a few seconds which when you take 40 degrees off timing out of causes way too much fuel

Well now that was long. tried to go as detailed and simple as possible to help more people understand 


i may be wrong so someone chime in if so


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

Loving the new VVT file. Cruising round town 4th gear 40 mph and stilll some pull. Loving the lower rpm power on the big turbo. Almost like driving stock again


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

the hitachi s4 MAF showed up today, which pig tail should i buy?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> the hitachi s4 MAF showed up today, which pig tail should i buy?


the one for a 2001.5/2002 s4. i beleive vast performance sells them. they sell the maf conversion package too 

Kit:
https://vastperformance.com/index.p...ch-to-hitachi-maf-sensor-conversion-2-7t.html

Harness:
https://vastperformance.com/index.p...2002/intake-1/hitachi-maf-wiring-harness.html

or cut one out of a car maybe at a local scrapyard


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Ive been out of the loop on everything lately with Maestro. I just installed my APR manifold with 75mm TB and will be making some tweeks. I am interested in the VVT discussions going on.

I have a 03 AWP motor, how can i tell if VVT is turned on by default? I did look at a cam timing map and saw a big dip in values at some ranges.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> the one for a 2001.5/2002 s4. i beleive vast performance sells them. they sell the maf conversion package too
> 
> Kit:
> https://vastperformance.com/index.p...ch-to-hitachi-maf-sensor-conversion-2-7t.html
> ...


ok thanks man, calling one today, but were up here in pohdunk, vermont so not sure if i will get lucky or not. :beer::beer:


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

@Tojr. Email and logs sent. Your private message inbox is full again lol.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

ordered the harness, most of the salvage yards around here were like whats an audi s4??? lol but got the harness coming hopefull have it in next week.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Torj- I know you're helping a lot of people right now but following what you said in your post above- *what should the idle torque value be?* I feel as if mine has always been around 20 even on my ID1000's which didn't have a big problem with it.

Currently with my new injectors I'm having major issues getting them to idle well. I'm having Knock on all four cylinders/negative timing/crazy 02 corrections at idle. I've been tuning my IC and BVC table with block 32 figures and it's getting better- also bumped the idle to 950 and it seems to like that. Although better I can tell these figures are not the solution - I feel like you are hitting the nail on the head here and I dropped the pulsewidth down but there is probably much more to do.

Very discouraging- I had my car running perfectly with ID1000's except for 30psi+ on E85. I'm considering swapping back to the 1000's and dropping my 500awhp goal.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> Torj- I know you're helping a lot of people right now but following what you said in your post above- *what should the idle torque value be?* I feel as if mine has always been around 20 even on my ID1000's which didn't have a big problem with it.
> 
> Currently with my new injectors I'm having major issues getting them to idle well. I'm having Knock on all four cylinders/negative timing/crazy 02 corrections at idle. I've been tuning my IC and BVC table with block 32 figures and it's getting better- also bumped the idle to 950 and it seems to like that. Although better I can tell these figures are not the solution - I feel like you are hitting the nail on the head here and I dropped the pulsewidth down but there is probably much more to do.
> 
> Very discouraging- I had my car running perfectly with ID1000's except for 30psi+ on E85. I'm considering swapping back to the 1000's and dropping my 500awhp goal.


pm me.

i need logs and more about your setup.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

ok so when i got my base tune over a year ago, not sure how it was set up. but i remember chris tapp saying it was a stage 2.....checked the email
now i see these new base files, and i am wondering if there is one that is much better. sorry i dont understand what vvt is an all but which base is best for my set up, any help is appreciated. 

its an 03 GTI AWP engine code with 5 speed transmission
whats going in it:

T3 bottom mount mani w/ MVS gate flange (from pagparts)
GT3071R w/ vband discharge
Eurodyne 630cc mafless file(with maestro7 suite)
mounting stud kit
Tial MVS WG 1 bar (38mm)
3inch downpipe w/ dump tube and clamp
SEM 80mm intake manifold
75mm TB from INA
custom (purple) cams from bobq
super tech valve springs form bobq
rods form integrated engineering
ACL rod bearings(w/tang)
Piston rings OEM set 
Supertech Inconel Exhaust Valve set
Supertech SS Nitrided Intakes Valve set 
custom port and polish
snow performance stage2 water/meth
walbro 255 inline fuel pump to go with apr intank fuel pump
greddy profec bspec type 2 elctronic boost controller.
arp head bolts 
hot deck and plain


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> pm me.
> 
> i need logs and more about your setup.



PM me your email address or email me. Your inbox is full. Thanks man. 

[email protected]


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> PM me your email address or email me. Your inbox is full. Thanks man.
> 
> [email protected]


Cleared space lol my bad. Try again


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> ok so when i got my base tune over a year ago, not sure how it was set up. but i remember chris tapp saying it was a stage 2.....checked the email
> now i see these new base files, and i am wondering if there is one that is much better. sorry i dont understand what vvt is an all but which base is best for my set up, any help is appreciated.
> 
> its an 03 GTI AWP engine code with 5 speed transmission
> ...


U need either the awp 630 seimens base file with.the airflow vs. Throttle and alpha n maps from the sem 80mm vvt asp file or you need the awp vvt sem 80mm 630 file. The files are really not hard to figure out what one. It just goes by your injectors, engine code, throttle body, and manifold. Not very hard. If u can't decide which base file you are gonna have a tough time adjusting it to run perfect

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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Just didn't understand the vvt part. And once the s4 pigtail is in I will do the s4 630cc base and its headed to a dyno.
Thank you again man for all the help

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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> Just didn't understand the vvt part. And once the s4 pigtail is in I will do the s4 630cc base and its headed to a dyno.
> Thank you again man for all the help
> 
> Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


U need to select the Hitachi 85 mm flowmeter in maestro the s4 maf tunes are reffering to the Bosch s4 maf

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> U need to select the Hitachi 85 mm flowmeter in maestro the s4 maf tunes are reffering to the Bosch s4 maf
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


ran the vvt stage 3 sem70mm 630cc base file today. start up a/fr went from 16.7 to 14.6 so i was pleased with that, got an error code of too rich for bank 1, never seen that before. other then that car ran alot better. just gotta figure out a few more things once i get the s4 maf in and hopefully get some more data out there


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Phew, my car's not reacting well to the B6 S4 V8 Maf at all. I'm wondering if the end of my harness it's facocked as it was all full of corrosion. I brass brushed the hell out of the harness end before running it. With the maf unplugged and Sabby's VVT 630 file It's idling miles better and on target.


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Anyone care to share their stock 630 file? After 2 years I'm finally getting around to playing with it. :facepalm:

I am having the problem that tojr1088 described in his post about the 630's. Ihave also noticed that at part throttle the car goes rich then lean to compensate. So my revs go up and down. Weird. :what:


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

screwball said:


> Phew, my car's not reacting well to the B6 S4 V8 Maf at all. I'm wondering if the end of my harness it's facocked as it was all full of corrosion. I brass brushed the hell out of the harness end before running it. With the maf unplugged and Sabby's VVT 630 file It's idling miles better and on target.


Make sure the part numver is right. Its a d2 a8 4.2 maf not a b6 s4 one

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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> ran the vvt stage 3 sem70mm 630cc base file today. start up a/fr went from 16.7 to 14.6 so i was pleased with that, got an error code of too rich for bank 1, never seen that before. other then that car ran alot better. just gotta figure out a few more things once i get the s4 maf in and hopefully get some more data out there


got the same engine code again today, doesnt seem to happen when im driving around town, just when im all out in third going to 4th, any ideas why this might keep happening?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

So i flashed using a 80mm SEM AWP file and tweeked it for 75mm. When i use cruise control and then push the clutch in for a coast my RPM's shoot up to 7k and then back down.

Any ideas?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> got the same engine code again today, doesnt seem to happen when im driving around town, just when im all out in third going to 4th, any ideas why this might keep happening?


Cause its reaching the adaption limit under wot. 

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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> Cause its reaching the adaption limit under wot.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


what can i do to correct that?

i am looking at the throttle angle vs air flow on the base tune i used. starts at 47.7086 and at 6k its at 48.1926 the 80mm TB starts at 46.8238 and goes to 6k at 47.2282, now becuase i have the 75mm VW TB should i copy over those numbers? just seeing if thats what you meant torj?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> what can i do to correct that?
> 
> i am looking at the throttle angle vs air flow on the base tune i used. starts at 47.7086 and at 6k its at 48.1926 the 80mm TB starts at 46.8238 and goes to 6k at 47.2282, now becuase i have the 75mm VW TB should i copy over those numbers? just seeing if thats what you meant torj?


Don't know what u mean

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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Well I'm trying to.figure out how to correct this issue. And yesterday I flashed the 70mm 630 file and it runs so much better. Just having the "too rich bank 1" isssue. So I didn't know that if I scales the 70mm files angle vs flow to that of the 80mm if that would correct it. I apologize for all the questions but I've been trying to get Chris tapp to help me for a year now, and this seems like the only place to get the help I need

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> Well I'm trying to.figure out how to correct this issue. And yesterday I flashed the 70mm 630 file and it runs so much better. Just having the "too rich bank 1" isssue. So I didn't know that if I scales the 70mm files angle vs flow to that of the 80mm if that would correct it. I apologize for all the questions but I've been trying to get Chris tapp to help me for a year now, and this seems like the only place to get the help I need
> 
> Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


What's your setups again. What's is your injector constant set at and what fuel pressure u running? 

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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> What's your setups again. What's is your injector constant set at and what fuel pressure u running?
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


im running the VVT Stage3semmanifold70mm630cc file now, was running what he sent me a year ago

its an 03 GTI AWP engine code with 5 speed transmission
whats going in it:

T3 bottom mount mani w/ MVS gate flange (from pagparts)
GT3071R w/ vband discharge
Eurodyne 630cc mafless file(with maestro7 suite)
mounting stud kit
Tial MVS WG 1 bar (38mm)
3inch downpipe w/ dump tube and clamp
SEM 80mm intake manifold
75mm TB from INA
custom (purple) cams from bobq
super tech valve springs form bobq
rods form integrated engineering
ACL rod bearings(w/tang)
Piston rings OEM set 
Supertech Inconel Exhaust Valve set
Supertech SS Nitrided Intakes Valve set 
custom port and polish
snow performance stage2 water/meth
walbro 255 inline fuel pump to go with apr intank fuel pump
greddy profec bspec type 2 elctronic boost controller.
arp head bolts 
hot deck and plain


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> im running the VVT Stage3semmanifold70mm630cc file now, was running what he sent me a year ago
> 
> its an 03 GTI AWP engine code with 5 speed transmission
> whats going in it:
> ...


And all that is in your car or going in. If u dont have any of that on the car of course your gonna run rich. This is common sense

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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> And all that is in your car or going in. If u dont have any of that on the car of course your gonna run rich. This is common sense
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


its been in the car over a year, and been running the base tune tapp gave me since then as well


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> its been in the car over a year, and been running the base tune tapp gave me since then as well


O. Well u said it was going in. What's your injector Constant and fuel pressure 

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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> O. Well u said it was going in. What's your injector Constant and fuel pressure
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


oh sorry copy and pasted that from my build thread

injector constant is 0.051837
running a 3bar for fuel pressure


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> oh sorry copy and pasted that from my build thread
> 
> injector constant is 0.051837
> running a 3bar for fuel pressure


Your constant should be alot lower. More like .047

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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

And are u sure you selected the right maf profile? 

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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> And are u sure you selected the right maf profile?
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


im mafless right now till the pigtail comes in. then i will flash the s4maf file

that constant is from the base tune i just loaded yeaterday so i will change that and load it


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> im mafless right now till the pigtail comes in. then i will flash the s4maf file
> 
> that constant is from the base tune i just loaded yeaterday so i will change that and load it


ok. and that file should be fine the way it is. did you try the non vvt file too? no matter how much my car ran ****ty i never had a too rich code


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> ok. and that file should be fine the way it is. did you try the non vvt file too? no matter how much my car ran ****ty i never had a too rich code


i havent but i can load it tomorow and try it out

when i load the s4maf file, will i need to do alot of adjustments as it doesnt say stage3semamanifold70mm630cc file, or is that just an addition?

sorry i just want to make some power finally out of this set up


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Well today i played around with the VVT 75mm file and trying to get my AFR to not go to 10 during idle and reduce the backfires bucking, etc....lets just say i had no luck

So i took the advice of several people on here that said to try the non-vvt file and the car runs SOO much better with the non-vvt file...holy heck. Feels like it pulls better down low and my adjustments actually respond haha.

I will continue to run the non-vvt file

I wonder why the VVT file runs like crap for alot of people.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

are you logging blocks 090 and 091 to see what the variable tensioner is doing while the car is running poorly?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> are you logging blocks 090 and 091 to see what the variable tensioner is doing while the car is running poorly?


I havent run any blocks. I may do that. Anything in particular i should look for?

My concern is even at idle. When i reflash it goes straight to 10 AFR no matter how much i adjust Alpha N and tv vs airflow maps.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

*maestro vvt file*

pm'ed


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Going to try the non vvt tomorow. Are there any corrections I should look to make? My car didn't run bad, just had the too rich bank 1 code

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Out of curiosity, what determines the *engine load sepc.*? I've observed in my logs that this does not seem to follow a logical pattern. ie. it will be at 258 during decell at higher rpms and also at wot. Why is this?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

For me the new Gen2 active vvt file run pretty damn solid. No real complaints. I've tweaked it a touch to even out the funky 630 idle and timing


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> i havent but i can load it tomorow and try it out
> 
> when i load the s4maf file, will i need to do alot of adjustments as it doesnt say stage3semamanifold70mm630cc file, or is that just an addition?
> 
> sorry i just want to make some power finally out of this set up


you dont select any different base file to use your maf. just go into maestro and select the flowmeter you have. every base file is for any of the 4 flowmeters. why is no one picking this up lol. The only reason any file may have "s4 maf" or "stock maf" next to it is because chris actually used that maf and made flowmeter corrections etc.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

I think that no one is picking up on it because there's no education on it. From my experience, Chris doesn't pit out anything when he updates....he just updates and its up to the users to figure it oit. And people like you torj that actually have the knowledge and let people know.
If his website had info on what everything did and how to utilize it, the common user may not need this thread.
But for people like me this thread has been huge, and thank you all very much

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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Reading Dub and others' posts make me feel a lil better about the new vvt file. I also have the backfiring, ocassional bucking, and got the p0171 code once. I'll go back to my old file till I can log and see what's up....or Chris update this file he he


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## kraftaroni (Feb 1, 2005)

Got my Maestro password today and plugged it into my car. Read the help section on reading the ecu first. It wont connect, keeps telling me to turn off my ignition and retry again. The light is on the tapp adapter and I downloaded the eurodyne flash and meastro from the webpage. any advice? 
Thanks. Since this seems to be the first thing you do before reflashing. Also would it matter if the car was flashed previously? It looks like there is some writing on the ECU I used a VAG on the car no problem.
Thanks
Newb. Maestro user.
car 2002 a4 avant 5 spd Quattro 
2.1 integrated stroker kit 
aeb intake and ported head 
Front mount intercooler
gt3071r
550cc injectors for now have 1000cc as well


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> are you logging blocks 090 and 091 to see what the variable tensioner is doing while the car is running poorly?


I checked today with a VVT file and block 90 in section two showed ERROR and block 91 in section 3 showed ERROR.

Edit: I should add that this was during cold start.

Is there any way for me to test if my VVT is shot? I do have an extra one but would like to see if its not working before i embark on the change.

Edit 2: I found a printout of some tests to complete and ohm readings, will check that later today.

Edit 3: I will also chekc block 90/91 with a geniune Vag-com cable incase the maestro cable does not have the capability of reading that block fully.


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Ok so Im new to this whole Maestro tuning thing. SabbySC sent me one of his tweaked files and I've been further tweaking it to work down here in MS. Alright the problem is this: LTFT says +6% and -14.06%. That's BVC and IC right? 

Now anyways it idles pretty damn smooth most of the time. It's at a solid 14.7-.8 AFR at idle. Every now and then it'll search, but if I bump the accelerator it evens back out. So if I drop my IC 14% wont it lean it back out and the problem start over? My injector constant is at 0.05704 > That's after I manually added to it to get the AFR's stoich at idle. 

*Also where to the O2 corrections come in to play?* There's a lot of information floating around out there and I've been searching forums it's just hard to keep up with it all.

Thanks for any input. I have a thread going, but its lackluster in responses.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Dub-Nub said:


> I checked today with a VVT file and block 90 in section two showed ERROR and block 91 in section 3 showed ERROR.
> 
> Edit: I should add that this was during cold start.
> 
> ...


So i did some testing yesterday and my VVT is engaging. After flashing the VVT file i logged block 090 and 091 with maestro cable and it was reading correctly even with ERROR in some places.

The car didnt feel as strong as the non-vvt file still. I will be using the non-vvt file for now.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

I will be switching to the non vvt 630cc file as well. The VVT one keeps giving me th p0172 code. So as suggested I will be switching and will try to do some logs tonight or Friday

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

I didn't get to log but I could tell my car didn't like the VVT file. Switched to old file n all is good again.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

My car didn't even start with the vvt file crAncking fuel map isn't available so I wasn't able to adjust startup for e85


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

*ID 1000CC minimum injector pulsewidth*

just bought the id 1000cc, i have the bvc and ic values

anyone knows what is the value for minimum injector pulsewidth ?
vvt base file only has the 1000cc option but i don't like those vvt files and their values
tnx


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Leon mk1 said:


> just bought the id 1000cc, i have the bvc and ic values
> 
> anyone knows what is the value for minimum injector pulsewidth ?
> vvt base file only has the 1000cc option but i don't like those vvt files and their values
> tnx



Pretty sure tapp uses .55 in another 1.8T id1000 file - that's what I've been using IIRC


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> you dont select any different base file to use your maf. just go into maestro and select the flowmeter you have. every base file is for any of the 4 flowmeters. why is no one picking this up lol. The only reason any file may have "s4 maf" or "stock maf" next to it is because chris actually used that maf and made flowmeter corrections etc.


when scaling my flowmeter for the hitachi s4maf, how do i scale it up?
and the stage3 semmanifold EV14_630cc file is the non VVT right, i just need to make sure block 60 is adjusted to my 75mm TB?

just wanted to make sure before i load her up tomorow, been a busy week at work


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> when scaling my flowmeter for the hitachi s4maf, how do i scale it up?
> and the stage3 semmanifold EV14_630cc file is the non VVT right, i just need to make sure block 60 is adjusted to my 75mm TB?
> 
> just wanted to make sure before i load her up tomorow, been a busy week at work



do what i said many times. dont scale anything. select hitachi 3.5 from the flowmeter tab in maestro. THATS IT

the sem manifold and 70mm throttle body files are all vvt i beleive

block 60 is for adaptation and has nothing to do with anything your trying to do. it simply performs and shows throttle body adaptation


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Nvm just found the settings for the MAF

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

I'm switching to non vvt to see if I won't get the too rich code

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

For the individual reporting fault codes there is a section in maestro where you can turn fault codes off(for some codes at least) . Look around and see if you could possibly turn it off and run the latest file if you'd like. If you don't want vvt to be active set the map to 0.0012 I believe.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Wiring diagram from AWE is a little different then the harness I got from vast performance......this may take a while

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

I've searched vortex and there's nothing......
This what the harness has:
Green
Violet/grey
Black/green
Green/yellow
This is the harness in the car:
Yellow/blue
Red/black
Green
Black

Anyone have any idea which goes which?? The awe pdf is different
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Now does lowering boost duty increase or decrease boost. It doesn't seem to have any affect. If some could explain the boost control maps that would be greatly appreciated.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

I did notice power down low but the backfiring if a lil annoying. N on top of that, got the p0171 code. I also like the startup(no more hi revving) n for some reason my vacum was higher at idle(from 18-19 to 21).

Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

This thread is almost impossible to read through and get useful information out of. I wish somebody would compile all this information into a useful post. I just switched to Maestro and I feel absolutely overwhelmed with everything. I have yet to even have the closest of clue on how to use the histogram features and actually work on my tune. I've been having some odd stuttering issues on the throttle in pretty much every gear for maybe the first 5% or so of giving it throttle. This just started recently and wasn't the case when I first applied the tune. It gives a horrible bucking type of situation when pulling out in first gear.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

SGTphatboy said:


> I've searched vortex and there's nothing......
> This what the harness has:
> Green
> Violet/grey
> ...



Al, see if this helps: http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Mass_air_flow#Bosch_vs._Hitachi


AWP pin out should be: 

Pin 1: (empty)
Pin 2: 12V source
Pin 3: Ground
Pin 4: 5V source
Pin 5: 5V MAF signal output


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Travis....wete u using the non vvt file before n now using the vvt file? If so, some people r having the bucking issue. To trace, open up your file on Maestro, load your log n when the file will trace. It doesnt work on all maps...just the basic ones. U have the option to apply the values maestro recommends or whatever u want to add/subtract.

Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


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## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

I am having an issue with O2 corrections (especially at idle), I have changed a ton on my car in the past two weeks and am looking for some advice on where to start.

Start off with the basics:

2008cc 10:1
EV-14 550CC Injectors @ 3 bar
Audi TT 225 MAF (Currently unplugged as I cannot get it to run right with it)
SEM Intake Manifold
80mm Throttle body
Injector Constant 0.067932 (Calculated via injector wizard, using 543 flow value at 3 bar for the EV-14's, 2008CC displacement) 
Running a non VVT base file with the Alpha N and throttle angel v air flow imported.

At idle (with MAF unplugged) my air fuel is around 16-18.1, part throttle I am 14.7ish. Have not really done much full throttle as I am extremely uncomfortable with the way its running at the moment.

My o2 corrections range from about 12%-22%, would my first place to start would be to adjusting my IC or my BVC? Or start somewhere else? 

Here is a log of just cruising around.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoqheCnDbi3ydDJmNHRJaXhFT2RzY2NlQUk0ZDQwbFE#gid=0


Any advice would be appreciated, normally I like finding things out for myself, but new motor, intake manifold and throttle body has me a little over my head at the moment.

Thanks,

-John


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

a4e3y5 said:


> Travis....wete u using the non vvt file before n now using the vvt file? If so, some people r having the bucking issue. To trace, open up your file on Maestro, load your log n when the file will trace. It doesnt work on all maps...just the basic ones. U have the option to apply the values maestro recommends or whatever u want to add/subtract.
> 
> Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


I've always been on VVT. I can post a few of my log files if you wish. When logging what exactly should I be logging? For how long, through what gears / RPM ranges etc. I did a 4th gear pull from 3k - 7k RPM and logged that. I'm not sure if this is adequate for tracing.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

travis_gli said:


> I've always been on VVT. I can post a few of my log files if you wish. When logging what exactly should I be logging? For how long, through what gears / RPM ranges etc. I did a 4th gear pull from 3k - 7k RPM and logged that. I'm not sure if this is adequate for tracing.


 If you've been on VVT and only recently have the bucking issue Im not sure what could it be. I have the previous version and never had problems...only when I switched to VVT had the bucking and backfiring issues. I never got to log the car so I'm not sure what was going on. When I have time I'll switch to VVT and log to see what's up. The log you mention is a good start. For the most part the car doesnt go way off of the cells it traces. The most important aspects you need to look at are knock, IAT, timing, and actual AFR. Post that log and people will be able to give you some points of reference.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Malant said:


> I am having an issue with O2 corrections (especially at idle), I have changed a ton on my car in the past two weeks and am looking for some advice on where to start.
> 
> Start off with the basics:
> 
> ...


You may need to adjust your Alpha N map down low but what I would do first is start by adding .05 at a time to according to your idle voltage get your BVC/IDLE in check (say around 14volts in your BVC map)... I'm assuming you took the Alpha N from the ID1000cc 80mm and sem intake aswell as the Throttle vrs. AF which was what I would have done also. Although those are tuned on stock displacement so you probably have to increase the values in alpha map according to your displacement increase which is roughly about 12-13%. 

Also you may want to choose the S4 maf (regardless your going to need a working MAF to get your Alpha N fine tuned or you can tune it the hard way).


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## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

Budsdubbin said:


> You may need to adjust your Alpha N map down low but what I would do first is start by adding .05 at a time to according to your idle voltage get your BVC/IDLE in check (say around 14volts in your BVC map)... I'm assuming you took the Alpha N from the ID1000cc 80mm and sem intake aswell as the Throttle vrs. AF which was what I would have done also. Although those are tuned on stock displacement so you probably have to increase the values in alpha map according to your displacement increase which is roughly about 12-13%.
> 
> Also you may want to choose the S4 maf (regardless your going to need a working MAF to get your Alpha N fine tuned or you can tune it the hard way).


Thanks, I will go ahead and give this a try and do some tweaking the BVC, .05 at a time until I can get my A/F back to 14.7. 

I did take the Alpha N and throttle vs af from the ID1000CC File. 

As for the S4 MAF, I have the V8 S4 MAF (part number taken from Maestro) however I wanted to try to get a few things ironed out before I throw another factor into my mix that could potentially cause an issue. I definitely want to run a MAF with my setup, just have not been able to get it to run correctly with everything. 

I will report back my results, thanks!

-John


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

COLOR]


18T_BT said:


> Al, see if this helps: http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Mass_air_flow#Bosch_vs._Hitachi
> 
> 
> AWP pin out should be:
> ...


hey thanks bud, yeah we just got a volt meter and tested and matched things up. we used the s4 wiki too. 

so this is how we matched it up:
*AWP wires: Hitachi wires*
blue/ yellow ------> green/ yellow: 12V
red/ violet ------> violet/ grey: 5V
green ------> black/ green: ground
black ------> green: signal


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

I also decided to load the VVT 630cc file again and under WOT did not have any codes, so far no p0172 "too rich for bank 1". got some logs and here they are:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdEpGS2lXTDNsblJWRzR4dE9iQm1pdWc#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdDNWV052SHZjT251czR4cjgwMUJKSnc#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdG1qWEFvMWFNWXJWYUx2dkNXOFVyaXc#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdFBMRlpUTVNUejZNaV8xRlc0REw3NEE#gid=0


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Could somebody please take a look at these for me.

Idle

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Avg7qgtByXcqdHpwYnJRdFJHY25IcU5RWjFpd21SWkE

Random Log

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Avg7qgtByXcqdG4yZWQtNk42bW10U1h1MFlNeHloWkE

3k - 4k Pull in 4th gear

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Avg7qgtByXcqdEpMRFJaaDBPanplTEhVRkluTXJuMEE


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> I also decided to load the VVT 630cc file again and under WOT did not have any codes, so far no p0172 "too rich for bank 1". got some logs and here they are:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdEpGS2lXTDNsblJWRzR4dE9iQm1pdWc#gid=0
> 
> ...


Your cruising log shows mad O2 corrections. The WOT pulls show not so bad O2 correction..lil tweak n u r there. There's some timing but not sure if it's due to the IAT (45*) or that at some point the car is a lil rich (.76 or 11.1). What's the ambient temp where u live rite now?


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

travis_gli said:


> Could somebody please take a look at these for me.
> 
> Idle
> 
> ...


Def need to work on your idle....O2 correction is high. The random one doesn;t look that bad. The WOT looks ok regarding O2 corrections (lil tweak), AFR, and IAT. Timing pulls is quite huge. Are u running water/meth?


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## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

Budsdubbin said:


> You may need to adjust your Alpha N map down low but what I would do first is start by adding .05 at a time to according to your idle voltage get your BVC/IDLE in check (say around 14volts in your BVC map)... I'm assuming you took the Alpha N from the ID1000cc 80mm and sem intake aswell as the Throttle vrs. AF which was what I would have done also. Although those are tuned on stock displacement so you probably have to increase the values in alpha map according to your displacement increase which is roughly about 12-13%.
> 
> Also you may want to choose the S4 maf (regardless your going to need a working MAF to get your Alpha N fine tuned or you can tune it the hard way).


Adjusting my BVC didn't get me anywhere, except a nasty rev hang at a certain point. My idle AFR was fine with the larger displacement motor and these injectors until I put on the 80MM TB and Intake manifold, is my Alpha N where I should start then? Id love to try to populate it from maf readings but my AF is ALL over the place from 9:1 to 14:1 with the MAF plugged in, plus frequent stalls.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

a4e3y5 said:


> Def need to work on your idle....O2 correction is high. The random one doesn;t look that bad. The WOT looks ok regarding O2 corrections (lil tweak), AFR, and IAT. Timing pulls is quite huge. Are u running water/meth?


I seen that as well and no Im not running water meth. Where should I start to get it corrected?


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

travis_gli said:


> I seen that as well and no Im not running water meth. Where should I start to get it corrected?


To correct 02, open your file with maestro. Open the map for fuel correction n at the top one of the tabs say load log i believe. Click and load the log u want. On the screen u will see the log so click trace log. Once is over u click apply values n automatically the program will do it for u. Save that file with a new name and flash the car. Ur 02 correction should improve. For the timing...not sure what can cause that..bad batch of gas? Your IAT is good as well as your AFR, so not sure whats going on.

Edit..you can pull 1-2 degrees of timing if you want. Youll do the same as you did with the main fuel correction map...this time with the timing map. Or you can go to the quick tuning and do an overall pull as well.

Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

a4e3y5 said:


> To correct 02, open your file with maestro. Open the map for fuel correction n at the top one of the tabs say load log i believe. Click and load the log u want. On the screen u will see the log so click trace log. Once is over u click apply values n automatically the program will do it for u. Save that file with a new name and flash the car. Ur 02 correction should improve. For the timing...not sure what can cause that..bad batch of gas? Your IAT is good as well as your AFR, so not sure whats going on.
> 
> Edit..you can pull 1-2 degrees of timing if you want. Youll do the same as you did with the main fuel correction map...this time with the timing map. Or you can go to the quick tuning and do an overall pull as well.
> 
> Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


I never did any quick tuning, would that be best to do first and foremost before touching anything else?


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

travis_gli said:


> I never did any quick tuning, would that be best to do first and foremost before touching anything else?


I meant to do the same thing u will do with the main fuel correction map. For timing you can go through the cells or do quick tune. For O2 correction, you want to do it through Maestro.

Open desired file>click main fuel correction>top left (next to the save file icon theres one called "load datalog file" (click it)>look for the desired log (idle or the pull one) and click it 2x>click on icon below title map (fuel correction; the one that says display datalog>click play and then show tracing histogram; you will see all the cells touched. Once the log finishes click on apply histogram values so they are applied on the file.> Click on save and give the file a new name (O2 corrected for example)> close and flash the car. Log again...your corrections should be better. Once u r between +5/-5 % u r ok. 

For timing, you can do the same you will do with the fuel correction map, but this time with the pump gas timing map. Or, u can flash the car and once flsahed, u can go to quick tune and pull 2* out of the map. If you use quick tune, u will need to pull the timing everytime u flash the car because for some reason it resets after every flash.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Malant said:


> Adjusting my BVC didn't get me anywhere, except a nasty rev hang at a certain point. My idle AFR was fine with the larger displacement motor and these injectors until I put on the 80MM TB and Intake manifold, is my Alpha N where I should start then? Id love to try to populate it from maf readings but my AF is ALL over the place from 9:1 to 14:1 with the MAF plugged in, plus frequent stalls.


http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=995 Heres the adjustment for your flowmeter but I doubt thats the issue.

Your MAF is either faulty or your flowmeter map is off which is unlikely... If adjusting your BVC didn't help idle I would suggets going to your alpha N map and add 10% for pedal positions 0-30%... I was under the impression those maps were put together pretty well.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

a4e3y5 said:


> I meant to do the same thing u will do with the main fuel correction map. For timing you can go through the cells or do quick tune. For O2 correction, you want to do it through Maestro.
> 
> Open desired file>click main fuel correction>top left (next to the save file icon theres one called "load datalog file" (click it)>look for the desired log (idle or the pull one) and click it 2x>click on icon below title map (fuel correction; the one that says display datalog>click play and then show tracing histogram; you will see all the cells touched. Once the log finishes click on apply histogram values so they are applied on the file.> Click on save and give the file a new name (O2 corrected for example)> close and flash the car. Log again...your corrections should be better. Once u r between +5/-5 % u r ok.
> 
> For timing, you can do the same you will do with the fuel correction map, but this time with the pump gas timing map. Or, u can flash the car and once flsahed, u can go to quick tune and pull 2* out of the map. If you use quick tune, u will need to pull the timing everytime u flash the car because for some reason it resets after every flash.


If I trace my pull log this is what I get. :sly:










EDIT: Same results for pump gas timing. :screwy:


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

travis_gli said:


> If I trace my pull log this is what I get. Same results for pump gas timing. :screwy:


So, the datalog is showing all the information in real time but is not tracing? Weird...You may want to check with Chris. I know the tracing feature doesn't work on all maps, but is does work on some, including those. In the meantime, u can open quick tune and pull at least 2*. Plug your laptop to the ECU and click on flash>go to diagnostics and click on quick tune> on the timing bar pull 2* (actually 2.25 since the increments are .75). You should be good for now while u ck what going on with the tracing feature.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Try the following

If you are running the non-vvt file then open a vvt file and attempt to trace the same map and see if you get values, vise versa if you are running vvt file and its not tracing.

I had a problem with not being able to trave Alpha N with non-vvt file, but it worked with VVT file (just opening it..you don thave to flash the car with it). I sent an email to Eurodyne support and was told the tracing could be added in next release if i need it..i asked for it to be added.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

a4e3y5 said:


> So, the datalog is showing all the information in real time but is not tracing? Weird...You may want to check with Chris. I know the tracing feature doesn't work on all maps, but is does work on some, including those. In the meantime, u can open quick tune and pull at least 2*. Plug your laptop to the ECU and click on flash>go to diagnostics and click on quick tune> on the timing bar pull 2* (actually 2.25 since the increments are .75). You should be good for now while u ck what going on with the tracing feature.


Yeh the datalog shows all of the real time data when I click play. So just back it off by 2*?



Dub-Nub said:


> Try the following
> 
> If you are running the non-vvt file then open a vvt file and attempt to trace the same map and see if you get values, vise versa if you are running vvt file and its not tracing.
> 
> I had a problem with not being able to trave Alpha N with non-vvt file, but it worked with VVT file (just opening it..you don thave to flash the car with it). I sent an email to Eurodyne support and was told the tracing could be added in next release if i need it..i asked for it to be added.


I'm currently running VVT so I'll have to try it out with a non vvt file then and see if it works.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

travis_gli said:


> Yeh the datalog shows all of the real time data when I click play. So just back it off by 2*?


Just as a starting point. Pull 2* and log. If u r still over -5*, then pull 2* more n then log again. Once u see -2.25 to -3.00 u can stop pulling timing....most people would agree that's a safe range. Now, you may want to ck why your timing pull is so high. Even on base file, many people have been able to advance their timing by a few degrees. Consume all the gas on your tank n when refuel log again....first thing that comes to my mind is bad gas. Unless timing on the VVT file is more agressive than in the previous version, but I haven't look to see if this is the case. Once you get the tracing feature to work u could be able to work on the timing a lil bit more precisely (work on specific cells). Question...how much boost r u running rite now?


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## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

Budsdubbin said:


> http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=995 Heres the adjustment for your flowmeter but I doubt thats the issue.
> 
> Your MAF is either faulty or your flowmeter map is off which is unlikely... If adjusting your BVC didn't help idle I would suggets going to your alpha N map and add 10% for pedal positions 0-30%... I was under the impression those maps were put together pretty well.


Well on the way in today I noticed my fuel trims resetting themselves, checked all my resistors to see if anything was blown out, looks like when we put the new motor in a few weeks back a butt connector became loose where my VVT resistor was, re-crimped that today and now my idle is MUCH better after 5 minutes of driving. Idle trim is now 7.88, second block is at about 3.9, however I only had a chance to drive for about five minutes on my lunch break. I did notice the nasty rev hang when I come to a stop my idle slowly crawls up. Figure this has to do with my BVC. Once I get 20-30 miles on it I will re-adjust my BVC and IC to see if this remedies this. Tried plugging my MAF in again but stalled out as usual. Have a few MAF's at my house I will give a try.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

a4e3y5 said:


> Just as a starting point. Pull 2* and log. If u r still over -5*, then pull 2* more n then log again. Once u see -2.25 to -3.00 u can stop pulling timing....most people would agree that's a safe range. Now, you may want to ck why your timing pull is so high. Even on base file, many people have been able to advance their timing by a few degrees. Consume all the gas on your tank n when refuel log again....first thing that comes to my mind is bad gas. Unless timing on the VVT file is more agressive than in the previous version, but I haven't look to see if this is the case. Once you get the tracing feature to work u could be able to work on the timing a lil bit more precisely (work on specific cells). Question...how much boost r u running rite now?


Around 24 PSI however I need to pull the wastegate springs and exchange them. I'd like to only be seeing 20-22 PSI since I'm running OEM rods. Hence why I haven't been doing multiple gear pulls and not trying to touch anything over 7k RPM. That 4th gear pull was scary enough and I cringed doing it.


----------



## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

travis_gli said:


> Around 24 PSI however I need to pull the wastegate springs and exchange them. I'd like to only be seeing 20-22 PSI since I'm running OEM rods. Hence why I haven't been doing multiple gear pulls and not trying to touch anything over 7k RPM. That 4th gear pull was scary enough and I cringed doing it.


You can change ur rev limiter to if you wish. Just open your file n go to rev limiter....change to what u wish ur tach to stop (6,700rpm for example). If u r running 24psi u shouldnt see fluctuation in ur actual boost (at least i dont see any on mine). U should on 18-20psi. U can also do a leak test as well. 

Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

a4e3y5 said:


> You can change ur rev limiter to if you wish. Just open your file n go to rev limiter....change to what u wish ur tach to stop (6,700rpm for example). If u r running 24psi u shouldnt see fluctuation in ur actual boost (at least i dont see any on mine). U should on 18-20psi. U can also do a leak test as well.
> 
> Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


I'm just going off what I can see by my boost gauge. My wastegate is set up for 22 PSI but from what I've been seeing on my gauge I'm getting around 23-24. I wasn't thinking when installing the spring. I should have went with a much lower PSI and used my boostvalve MBC to control it from there.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

travis_gli said:


> I'm just going off what I can see by my boost gauge. My wastegate is set up for 22 PSI but from what I've been seeing on my gauge I'm getting around 23-24. I wasn't thinking when installing the spring. I should have went with a much lower PSI and used my boostvalve MBC to control it from there.


I hear u....thats how i have it. I have the 14.5 psi n control it with my mbc....20psi for low n 25psi for hi. 

Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


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## Hansi80 (Jun 15, 2009)

*ID1000 injector constant and battery voltage compensation values*

Is anyone running ID1000s? What are you running for injector constant and battery voltage compensation values? I have a 2008cc stroker..

I made this thread on Eurodyne forum about it.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Hansi80 said:


> Is anyone running ID1000s? What are you running for injector constant and battery voltage compensation values? I have a 2008cc stroker..
> 
> I made this thread on Eurodyne forum about it.


ID numbers are what I run. Remember that your stock 3 bar regulator has a ~3psi tolerance. Check your block 032 for fine tuning after a good 20 minute ride. The first reading will be how much percentage to increase/decrease your BVC values. Second will be injector constant value.

http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID1000.html#Dynamic Flow Rate and Dead Time Summary


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Hansi80 said:


> Is anyone running ID1000s? What are you running for injector constant and battery voltage compensation values? I have a 2008cc stroker..
> 
> I made this thread on Eurodyne forum about it.



Use the values DougLoBue posted, and use the IC that the injector wizard calculates for you. It's not that hard to punch in the numbers and get the IC.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> ID numbers are what I run. Remember that your stock 3 bar regulator has a ~3psi tolerance. Check your block 032 for fine tuning after a good 20 minute ride. The first reading will be how much percentage to increase/decrease your BVC values. Second will be injector constant value.
> 
> http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID1000.html#Dynamic Flow Rate and Dead Time Summary


Actually the first value of block 32 is multiplied by your ic then added across every value in bvc. 

The second value of block 32 is the percent to increase ic

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

anyone know what controls part throttle fueling on mafless before corrections start?

alpha n mostly?


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

magic 8 ball.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> magic 8 ball.


baaaaaaahahahahahahha:beer:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> magic 8 ball.


:laugh:

I almost crapt me bloomers at work.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Hey guys getting on the dyno in a couple days. What areas should I concentrate on to adjust for making power? 

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> Hey guys getting on the dyno in a couple days. What areas should I concentrate on to adjust for making power?
> 
> Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


Timing is what really gives you more power. You can also lean the mixture a lil...around 11.9-12.0. If you r running w/m u can even lean it to 12.3 for those dyno/meet nites. Look for IAT, knock, and AFR while tuning.

Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Ok thanks man I appreciate the help

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> Ok thanks man I appreciate the help
> 
> Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


No problem. I use my base file for daily and an agressive one (12.5 AFR with water meth) those days I feel a lil frisky he he

Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

A new code today. P1297, connection charger-throttle valve pressure drop 

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> magic 8 ball.


Can you tell me what map controls the magic 8 ball?

I cant find it anywhere.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

a4e3y5 said:


> No problem. I use my base file for daily and an agressive one (12.5 AFR with water meth) those days I feel a lil frisky he he
> 
> Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


Which map did you use to set that up? Full load lambda or power enrichment?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Clearest that code now the car is running like ****

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Which map did you use to set that up? Full load lambda or power enrichment?


I did it almost a yr ago. I need to open up the file and look at the maps but I believe it was full load lambda (dont quote me just yet). As soon as I ck it I'll get back to you with a definitive answer.

Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

a4e3y5 said:


> No problem. I use my base file for daily and an agressive one (12.5 AFR with water meth) those days I feel a lil frisky he he
> 
> Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


by aggresive....what do you mean. care to share?


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

sup

I'm mapping for E85 and set timing at 21 below 4500rpm. However during WOT runs timing jumps from 21 down to 9-ish back to 21. Jerky acceleration. 

How to fix this?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

so i believe the hitachi is either shot or is having a mjor issue. 
had a couple codes, cleared them, let the car run for a while. 
made it about 20 miles and the car was surging hard under barely any throttle and vaccum/boost was shooting way up and down. pulled the plug on the maf and it seemed to run fine, i loaded a mafless file and drove it home. it made power again and no surging

not sure what the issue might be but im sure it has to do twith the MAF i just installed


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## turbo2.24.1990 (Jun 2, 2008)

has anyone had any luck scaling their mafs to custom sized housings with this link?

http://eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=995

I'm brand new to maestro, so I just wanted to see if anyone else had used this link before I plug in the values the google spreadsheet gave me in maestro. I'd rather scale to my 4" intake than having to reroute it again with smaller piping (more $) to use in conjunction with a b6 v8 maf housing (more $).


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> so i believe the hitachi is either shot or is having a mjor issue.
> had a couple codes, cleared them, let the car run for a while.
> made it about 20 miles and the car was surging hard under barely any throttle and vaccum/boost was shooting way up and down. pulled the plug on the maf and it seemed to run fine, i loaded a mafless file and drove it home. it made power again and no surging
> 
> not sure what the issue might be but im sure it has to do twith the MAF i just installed


One thing I noticed was that the drop down selections for various housings and sensors dont work right.

When I select S4 MAF from the drop down, it runs like garbage.

When I use the MAF scaling spreadsheet found on the eurodyne forums and scale up from a stock AWP maf housing, It works. 

That being said, when I compare scaled up AWP MAF values via spreadsheet to S4 values, they are completely different than the drop down values, as well as the offset values are different.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

turbo2.24.1990 said:


> has anyone had any luck scaling their mafs to custom sized housings with this link?
> 
> http://eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=995
> 
> I'm brand new to maestro, so I just wanted to see if anyone else had used this link before I plug in the values the google spreadsheet gave me in maestro. I'd rather scale to my 4" intake than having to reroute it again with smaller piping (more $) to use in conjunction with a b6 v8 maf housing (more $).


Scaled my MAF and a friends 95mm MAF for a big turbo S4 with that spreadsheet. worked great.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Rac_337 said:


> One thing I noticed was that the drop down selections for various housings and sensors dont work right.
> 
> When I select S4 MAF from the drop down, it runs like garbage.
> 
> ...


i used the hitaci MAF on the drop down and everything worked great for about a week till i got that code


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## turbo2.24.1990 (Jun 2, 2008)

interesting-i guess i'll try scaling the v8 profile first and if that doesnt work to well i'll try from the awp. thanks:beer:


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> by aggresive....what do you mean. care to share?


I have the base file for daily and made a file where timing is more agressive as well as the AFR (leaner mixture). This is a non vvt, mafless file. 

Buds....I havent forgot about u!

Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

is anyone running a 2.5 or 3 bar MAP?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> i used the hitaci MAF on the drop down and everything worked great for about a week till i got that code


must be a glitch with the 2000 S4 maf profile.


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## GetBoosted84 (Apr 1, 2007)

*Looking for feedback on my first 3rd gear pull on maestro (GT30R content)*

Hi All,

I'm running an 01 A4 with a GT3071R and 630cc injectors w/out a MAF. Typically I run with a catless exhaust so backpressure is minimal however it's even less now because I'm open downpipe  until I get my flex pipe fixed. Now I'm also running maestro. I must say that their base tune is pretty damn solid. However there are some concerns I have with it. Below I have some logs from a 3rd gear WOT pull (ambient temp was 85 degrees as well).

I'd like to get some feedback on how I can kill the timing pull I'm getting once I get into boost. Also, boost is coming on very late (4.5k+ for full boost) for this sized turbo so I wanted to get some input on how I can reduce my spool time.

Data:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hg8h6dwjqvsk6ty/2012_7_17-20.10.22.DataLog - 3rd Gear Pull.csv

Boost:









Injector Duty Cycle:









Knock:









Lambda:









O2 Correction:









Timing Advance:


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Waterfest*

Anyone going to be at WaterFest Sunday that is using Maestro 7 and if so, does anyone have any Tweaked 630 injector files for the VVT. I would like to experiment and get a few files so I can use them on my drive back to North Carolina. I will be in a Silver Jetta, Tinted Windows with a Black Vinyl wrapped hood and roof.

My email is [email protected] or you can text me tomorrow as I will be there probably from early in the A.M. till the end of the show.

Cell# 732-684-6264


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

If you are using the n75 to control the boost then increase the duty cycle from 1500-3500 and see if that helps
You can always try using a MBC and run that and see how fast the Turbo can spool on its own.


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## GetBoosted84 (Apr 1, 2007)

spartiati said:


> If you are using the n75 to control the boost then increase the duty cycle from 1500-3500 and see if that helps
> You can always try using a MBC and run that and see how fast the Turbo can spool on its own.


No N75 on my setup... I have an electronic boost controller but I have it turned off for now. All the graphs I posted are with the boost controller turned off and running only on the springs in my Tial wastegate. Given that my A/F looks solid, I was thinking that I need to fool with the timing (advance it further into the rev range). 

P.S. - I realized that by graphs were from the wrong run so I re-posted them.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Low HP on Dyno*

Well, Today while at Waterfest 18 in New Jersey I decided to see what kind of power my car put down. Out of the three dyno runs that were performed on my 03 Jetta GLS 1.8T AWP the most i had was 236 HP and for some reason 370 FT. Not sure what is going on here with the Maestro but I'm thinking that I need to get my car to a shop that tunes with maestro because that doesn't seem to be much HP at all. 

I have CTS Turbo MKIV 1.8T Turbo setup with the Precision 50 Trim .48ar , 630 Injector File VVT with Upgraded Integrated Engineering Rods. I have all the other add ons both internal and external.

So can anyone figure this one out. Whats the standard HP with the 630VVT file?


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

sure it wasn't 326?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Thats what I was hoping,I was hoping it was a mistake but after looking at the print out I was like this just can't be! 



Vegeta Gti said:


> sure it wasn't 326?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

NJ1.8T......I made 332whp n 308tq with a non vvt file at 22psi n a tiny FMIC core n 2" piping. At what psi did you do the pull n what fmic n piping do u have? For example..i changed my fmic n piping for a bigger one, cent with a. 63 ar and 24 psi n hit 398whp.

Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I have the CTS Turbo FMIC which is good upwards of 450hp, the piping is I believe 2.5 inch with the 3" cold air intake. The PSI was hitting at 16 but I had it set at 22 PSI with Eurodyne Quicktune. I am also running a 3bar FPR, should I be running the 4BAR FPR. Where can I get a Non VVT file thats safe as I was given one and well it would run but if I turned off the car then started it again, it wouldn't REV past 1000rpms.



a4e3y5 said:


> NJ1.8T......I made 332whp n 308tq with a non vvt file at 22psi n a tiny FMIC core n 2" piping. At what psi did you do the pull n what fmic n piping do u have? For example..i changed my fmic n piping for a bigger one, cent with a. 63 ar and 24 psi n hit 398whp.
> 
> Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Perfect*

Just wanted to say a Thank You to Ruben ( a4e3y5 ) for sending me a file that's got my Car running the best it has since I have gotten Maestro. So I just wanted to give appreciation for his help and contacting me about my Maestro Issues!!


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

so no one is running a bigger MAP sensor to see if it can accomodate the higher amount of boost a lot of us run, since stock is 2bar and well...some of us go higher...


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Vegeta Gti said:


> so no one is running a bigger MAP sensor to see if it can accomodate the higher amount of boost a lot of us run, since stock is 2bar and well...some of us go higher...


The TDI MAP sensors are 3 bar. I would give that a go if you are running over 29 PSI. :thumbup:


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> Just wanted to say a Thank You to Ruben ( a4e3y5 ) for sending me a file that's got my Car running the best it has since I have gotten Maestro. So I just wanted to give appreciation for his help and contacting me about my Maestro Issues!!


Anytime man! Glad that is working for you. Hit me up anytime and as many times needed!

Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Vegeta Gti said:


> so no one is running a bigger MAP sensor to see if it can accomodate the higher amount of boost a lot of us run, since stock is 2bar and well...some of us go higher...


I believe ECS has a 3 bar map...ck em out.

Sent from te lo mande desde mi cel!


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Is anybody running Bosch EV-14 550's at 4 bar? If so could you please share your injector constant and BVC values w/ me? I'm having one hell of a time.


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

do you guys know if there are any tuners that will do remote tuning while on a dyno/street?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

GetBoosted84 said:


> Boost:


Initially I was confused by the logs showing 30psi of boost and 15˚ of timing. That combination is without a doubt 300+whp. But as another poster noted, the ECU cannot register boost data above 22.5psi. So the chart above is incorrectly scaled. My guess is the values are not BOOST. They are absolute pressure, which includes 14.7psi of ambient. Which, in turn, means you're boosting only a little over a bar, not 30psi. And that's why your power is in K04 territory.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

travis_gli said:


> Is anybody running Bosch EV-14 550's at 4 bar? If so could you please share your injector constant and BVC values w/ me? I'm having one hell of a time.


I've run that combo. And it ran fine with the injector constant generated by the Maestro Injector wizard. How certain are you that you're seeing an accurate 4bar above boost pressure at all times?


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

my question is anyone running right now,i know where and what it does guys lol. i just wanted to see if people are using it and if they are having better control over 29 psi, etc.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I've run that combo. And it ran fine with the injector constant generated by the Maestro Injector wizard. How certain are you that you're seeing an accurate 4bar above boost pressure at all times?


Did you use the voltage compensation values given by the injector wizard for the 550's as well? I guess I really can't be certain without a fuel pressure gauge and a dyno. The Walbro inline is brand new as well as the 4 bar FPR and 550 injectors. I can't see why I wouldn't be seeing the pressure.

EDIT: I read over this and decreased my voltage compensation levels by 20%

http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=809


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> Actually the first value of block 32 is multiplied by your ic then added across every value in bvc.


Travis, you need to do this to get your BVC set. This is the correct method. Wizard values only get you close....I prefer to use injector spec bvc values vs. wizard values to start.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

kind of tired of the guessing game with this company and with the lack of people with access to a dyno that can tune my set up. i may have a 630cc mafless file for sale.
calling united motorsports tomorow and see what they can do
i appreciate all the help everyone has given to me and everyone on here, but really chris tapp needs to be helping out here. i think its great he came up with this software but with no reall "how to" guide for the last couple years is a bit disapointing. arnold at pagparts trusts this guy so i went with him, now i feel like i sunk all this money into an engine that i will never see the potential of. if chris, could help im sure everyone wouldnt be relying on just this thread to figure out their tune. :banghead::banghead:
if anyone has some insight, and i mean an more in depth of how to tune this maestro i would like to know how before i waste more money on disapointment at the dyno


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Rac_337 said:


> must be a glitch with the 2000 S4 maf profile.


awesome.................:banghead:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

it is hard, for me personally, to explain it and much easier to do it...which is why i will spend time on my maestro when i can (once i acquire my own) but run my uni ecu until it is solid as a rock

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Vegeta Gti said:


> it is hard, for me personally, to explain it and much easier to do it...which is why i will spend time on my maestro when i can (once i acquire my own) but run my uni ecu until it is solid as a rock
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


in the end its my fault for not doing better research, and sadly if the eurodyne forum was more up to date then i migh better understand.

if anyone knows of a good dyno tuner with experience with me7 please let me know:beer:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

if i had it now i would make some 630 files for people with setups similar to mine, as well as 830cc and some 1000cc as i have a set of 830 i find cleaning the garage, and i got s couple good meth and no meth 1kcc maps

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Vegeta Gti said:


> if i had it now i would make some 630 files for people with setups similar to mine, as well as 830cc and some 1000cc as i have a set of 830 i find cleaning the garage, and i got s couple good meth and no meth 1kcc maps
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


i havent even tried to run my water/meth kit......
but im not begging anyone to send me their tune. i would just like to find a tuner near vermont, so that i can go there.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> i havent even tried to run my water/meth kit......
> but im not begging anyone to send me their tune. i would just like to find a tuner near vermont, so that i can go there.


everytime i get a bit excited about this thing....i end up disapointed


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

travis_gli said:


> Did you use the voltage compensation values given by the injector wizard for the 550's as well?


Yessir. It ran very, very nicely right off the bat. Are you sure something else isn't at play? How's it run with the MAF disconnected?


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Vegeta Gti said:


> my question is anyone running right now,i know where and what it does guys lol. i just wanted to see if people are using it and if they are having better control over 29 psi, etc.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


Doug uses eurodyne's boost control, which i believe uses a 6 bar MAP. i think if someone uses a higher MAP he/she would also have to alter the map in the file to accomodate (adding column/row with values).


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Yessir. It ran very, very nicely right off the bat. Are you sure something else isn't at play? How's it run with the MAF disconnected?


Basically when reflashing after a change it runs like a champ. I also make sure to clear any long term fuel trims after a reflash so the new tune can sink in. Then after 20+ miles of driving I get the same results with rough idle, even more horrible idle under any voltage loads (a/c, hvac, etc) and maybe 5-10% of throttle load results in the car bucking and sputtering, sometimes even a stall. I haven't tried disconnecting the MAF however but given this is something that happens after long term fuel trims and ECU corrections put in place I don't believe its the MAF.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

NJ1.8T said:


> Well, Today while at Waterfest 18 in New Jersey I decided to see what kind of power my car put down. Out of the three dyno runs that were performed on my 03 Jetta GLS 1.8T AWP the most i had was 236 HP and for some reason 370 FT. Not sure what is going on here with the Maestro but I'm thinking that I need to get my car to a shop that tunes with maestro because that doesn't seem to be much HP at all.
> 
> I have CTS Turbo MKIV 1.8T Turbo setup with the Precision 50 Trim .48ar , 630 Injector File VVT with Upgraded Integrated Engineering Rods. I have all the other add ons both internal and external.
> 
> So can anyone figure this one out. Whats the standard HP with the 630VVT file?



That dyno was ****ing junk bro.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> kind of tired of the guessing game with this company and with the lack of people with access to a dyno that can tune my set up. i may have a 630cc mafless file for sale.
> calling united motorsports tomorow and see what they can do
> i appreciate all the help everyone has given to me and everyone on here, but really chris tapp needs to be helping out here. i think its great he came up with this software but with no reall "how to" guide for the last couple years is a bit disapointing. arnold at pagparts trusts this guy so i went with him, now i feel like i sunk all this money into an engine that i will never see the potential of. if chris, could help im sure everyone wouldnt be relying on just this thread to figure out their tune. :banghead::banghead:
> if anyone has some insight, and i mean an more in depth of how to tune this maestro i would like to know how before i waste more money on disapointment at the dyno


dynotech in seekonk, ma should be able to tune it. almost any good tuner can do it if they know what there doing. its gonna run u like 800 to 100 dollars for what essentially is a standalone tune.

most people hate maestro but i mean if u didnt wanna tune it you should of got a 630 uni file. i have a 630 uni file btw that im looking to trade for a maestro one. my brother is looking to get maestro and his gti with a 3071 has always run awesome. he has a uni mafless 630 tune. never any problems with it


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Last night I was doing some fiddling- has anyone tried this before?

With a stage 3 file (NON-VVT) and the MAF plugged in if I swap the throttle body related airflow tables the corrections/fueling is entirely different. Seemed to not be taking direction from the MAF at all- just giving me airflow numbers in a log.

So I did a bunch of map export/import from my stg3 tune into a stg2 tune. I missed the Maximum VE map as it's something I never worked with- I never exceeded it before. The stage 2 tune actually takes airflow numbers from the MAF and uses them for fueling. My 15 mile commute to work drive-ability was drastically increased. Although I can't do a WOT pull until I change Max VE this afternoon. I'll make a thread on it when I'm done but if anyone else wants to try this just a suggestion.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Here is the datasheet from Ford for the Bosch EV-14 550's if anybody is interested. :thumbup:


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

So finally broke down and did my 225TTQ AMU Narrowband to Wideband conversion with AWP ecu and got Maestro 7! Ive got the intial flash done with the AWP_stage3_371cc_TT225MAF.mstro which was suggested by eurodyne when I called in, but it is running like dog ****. If i turn on the AC the car stalls. Just wondering if you guys have any idea where I should start? or if anyone has experience with this mix, AMU with AWP ecu with basic bolt ons. Thanks much!


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

cruzanstx said:


> So finally broke down and did my 225TTQ AMU Narrowband to Wideband conversion with AWP ecu and got Maestro 7! Ive got the intial flash done with the AWP_stage3_371cc_TT225MAF.mstro which was suggested by eurodyne when I called in, but it is running like dog ****. If i turn on the AC the car stalls. Just wondering if you guys have any idea where I should start? or if anyone has experience with this mix, AMU with AWP ecu with basic bolt ons. Thanks much!


 Adaption and a few runs around the block cleared it all up, now to work back up to the 22psi tune I had before.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

This is really driving me nuts 

Does nobody know why is it that after being off the gas then on the gas my afr gets super rich before returning to 14.7?


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

Rac_337 said:


> This is really driving me nuts
> 
> Does nobody know why is it that after being off the gas then on the gas my afr gets super rich before returning to 14.7?


 +1 

630cc with scaled awp maf in 70mm housing 
IC 0.047952 
BVC from datasheet +0.3-0.4~ to all volts 
i tried Minimum pulsewidth as stock 0.749427 and change it to 0.5~ but didnt noticed any diffrent 
at all 
also tried with stock maf in stock housing 
same thing happend


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Going rich when you press the accelerator is likely due to accel fuel table. 

You can try decreasing that map and see if it helps. 

Also the injector constant of .47 for the 630's seems abit too low. What I did was use the injector wizard to calculate the flow of 630's (ballpark . 51as I can't remember exactly) and then used he BvC values from the actual data sheet for the injectors. Cars been running perfectly fine ever since.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

I shouldn't have to scale a VR6 MAF correct?


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Rac_337 said:


> This is really driving me nuts
> 
> Does nobody know why is it that after being off the gas then on the gas my afr gets super rich before returning to 14.7?


 I have had this problem since day 1 of maestro. I read somehwere that this is done to cool the valves...but i have never emailed chris. I will.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

cruzanstx said:


> So finally broke down and did my 225TTQ AMU Narrowband to Wideband conversion with AWP ecu and got Maestro 7! Ive got the intial flash done with the AWP_stage3_371cc_TT225MAF.mstro which was suggested by eurodyne when I called in, but it is running like dog ****. If i turn on the AC the car stalls. Just wondering if you guys have any idea where I should start? or if anyone has experience with this mix, AMU with AWP ecu with basic bolt ons. Thanks much!


 
Your BVC needs adjustment.... Its been covered alot in this thread. Let your car sit at idle log o2 corrections with no other load on (radio/AC ect. off) then log with those loads on. If both are rich then try removing .05 to both at whatever voltage you record.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Mafless 630 File*

When I finally got everything broken in like the Clutch and Diff I decided to do some pulls and wow. My knock was really bad, timing was horrible, full boost is coming on around 5000 rpms instead of 4500 rpms and my coolant temp is up around 96. 

I can't even push my car or do a 3rd gear pull in fear of blowing up my engine. 

So now I have found a place that does Maestro Tuning and will bring it to them so I can finally have the car and power that I wanted in the first place.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

a4e3y5 said:


> Doug uses eurodyne's boost control, which i believe uses a 6 bar MAP. i think if someone uses a higher MAP he/she would also have to alter the map in the file to accomodate (adding column/row with values).


 nice to know, man 6bar map lol, that's awesome. 

i should look into this eurodyne boost controller...a lot of stuff won't work for me as i am swapped, so no clutch switch and VSS,etc.


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

Budsdubbin said:


> Your BVC needs adjustment.... Its been covered alot in this thread. Let your car sit at idle log o2 corrections with no other load on (radio/AC ect. off) then log with those loads on. If both are rich then try removing .05 to both at whatever voltage you record.


 Thanks bro, Ive read over the past 6 months most of the posts in this thread but its different when you actually finally have the software in front of you. I'll see if I can find the exact quote but thanks for pointing me in the right direction.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Dub-Nub said:


> I have had this problem since day 1 of maestro. I read somehwere that this is done to cool the valves...but i have never emailed chris. I will.


 interesting. 

post up if he gets back to you. id be interested to see his response


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Doug is still using the n75 control via maestro. He does have boost manager taking care of the fuel pump duty cycle as well as the water meth control.


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## 20VCanuck (Mar 11, 2011)

Just installed my 50 trim. Running on vvt 630 siemens. Going to seafoam and get for vac leaks first but I was in the car and took some logs. 

Runs so-so. Am most likely going to take it to a tuner, as I havent really grasped maestro yet, but I thought someone could tell what my logs are like. 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1QAoHst_baiNnpqenRDWnVsd2c/edit 
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1QAoHst_baiOUxfTnlZMW1UYlE/edit 

Just got p0321 code, I think that is cps, not sure if that would explain my hestitation/drop out mid rpm


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

NJ1.8T said:


> Anyone have a good to great running 630 VVT file that cures the following> My knock was really bad, timing was horrible, full boost is coming on around 5000 rpms instead of 4500 rpms and my coolant temp is up around 96.
> I have two logs showing everything if you need to take a look!
> Thanks to Ruben for sending me my log back and helping me little by little.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdFhjaTBLR3lSRnJuMVRoVGNvYTZZTHc


 go for a drive. 

look at block 32 at end of drive 

then post your bvc and ic values as well as what the STFT and LTFT's say 

Also what kind of gas are you running?


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

Guys, I have a question. I don't want to go back and read through all the last posts so someone please give me the answer :laugh: 

The file on my car is a .tapp file. 

The newer versions of maestro appear to name the files .mstro 

Is there a way to save my old file as a .mstro file? Is my old .tapp file compatible with the newer version of maestro? In other words, will I be able to open the file in the newer maestro version? 

If not, what do I do with my old file to get it to work with the newer maestro version? 

Thanks guys! :beer:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I'm opening and resaving old .tapp files, the new suffix is just .mstro now, but they're both compatible.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I am running 93 octane here in North Carolina. Also my FMIC is the one that came with the CTS Turbo Kit which is good upwards of 450HP 




Rac_337 said:


> go for a drive.
> 
> look at block 32 at end of drive
> 
> ...


----------



## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

schwartzmagic said:


> Guys, I have a question. I don't want to go back and read through all the last posts so someone please give me the answer :laugh:
> 
> The file on my car is a .tapp file.
> 
> ...


 no help for you, read all 3330 posts lol jp. 

side note. I just stumbled on this great series of helpfiles that I wish they would bundle or at least tell you about when you buy maestro. 

http://www.eurodyne.ca/Eurodyne_Maestro_Help_Files.pdf


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

20VCanuck said:


> Just installed my 50 trim. Running on vvt 630 siemens. Going to seafoam and get for vac leaks first but I was in the car and took some logs.
> 
> Runs so-so. Am most likely going to take it to a tuner, as I havent really grasped maestro yet, but I thought someone could tell what my logs are like.
> 
> ...


 you're running really rich. so much so you loose 02 corrections in the higher rpm ranges.


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

i need some help here 
just return from work about 3 miles from home 
my car gets lean each time i press the gas pedle 
i checked block 032 and its 7.81 25 
i pluged new maf sensor and did another cruise driving and again 25% at 
i think its the oxygen \lambda\wideband sensor ? 
no fault codes 

630cc injectors 
injector constant is 0.049xxx 
BVC 1.617 1.1 0.8 0.6 0.5 ~ 
MINIMUM INJECTOR pulsewidth is 0.74xxx 
and awp maf sensor scaled in 70mm housing 
(i didnt change nothing in my tune,car runs perfectly and block 32 was +-1 on both banks) 
tnx for help


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Leon mk1 said:


> i need some help here
> just return from work about 3 miles from home
> my car gets lean each time i press the gas pedle
> i checked block 032 and its 7.81 25
> ...


 try adjusting your acceleration fuel map. add 10% to the whole thing.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

For some reason I can't get anything to register in Block 32, does anyone know why this is happening? It just reads 0.00 for all 4 boxes of the 32 Block!


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Did you deleteyour SAI and other systems from your setup? If so you likely are missing a resistor somewhere.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I did delete all the SAI / Evap and other stuff. Where does the resistor go as I do have a few of them. 



sabbySC said:


> Did you deleteyour SAI and other systems from your setup? If so you likely are missing a resistor somewhere.


----------



## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

Rac_337 said:


> try adjusting your acceleration fuel map. add 10% to the whole thing.


 never touched that map so this is not the problem


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Leon mk1 said:


> never touched that map so this is not the problem


 It doesn't matter if you touched it or not... Just do as suggested, it could fix the issue.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Leon mk1 said:


> never touched that map so this is not the problem


 I never touched mine either, and they were wrong. I still need to adjust it more, but in my case adjusting it had made my throttle tip in better.


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

Rac_337 said:


> I never touched mine either, and they were wrong. I still need to adjust it more, but in my case adjusting it had made my throttle tip in better.


 myabe they are wrong 
but i never had problem like now and i never touched that map 
my long term fuel is +25% now insted of +-1 
so its can only be boost leak or one of the sensors 
not the tune anyway


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Leon mk1 said:


> myabe they are wrong
> but i never had problem like now and i never touched that map
> my long term fuel is +25% now insted of +-1
> so its can only be boost leak or one of the sensors
> not the tune anyway


 That is your wideband sensor. This has happened to me a few times. Your codes sometimes will confirm.


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

Wideband is front or rear sensor ? 
The readings in block 31 are still acurate compered to my Aem 
Wideband gauge but i am think its one of the oxygen sensor as you mention 
I will wait for CEL and confirm


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Leon mk1 said:


> Wideband is front or rear sensor ?
> The readings in block 31 are still acurate compered to my Aem
> Wideband gauge but i am think its one of the oxygen sensor as you mention
> I will wait for CEL and confirm


 finally getting sopme free time today to load rubens map, hopefully i get some power out of this thing. will post some logs later after i get it installed. now off to take care of the mini me:beer:


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Leon mk1 said:


> myabe they are wrong
> but i never had problem like now and i never touched that map
> my long term fuel is +25% now insted of +-1
> so its can only be boost leak or one of the sensors
> not the tune anyway


 sorry I did not read that it was fine before. 

exhaust leak maybe? just a thought.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

new logs, kinda ran out of road but heres what i was able to get 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdHhJWHg1ZTFXNHBwcF9CSklxeXpFVmc#gid=0 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdFRsWllYWkVUNC1CWmhnWWNhMWdVb0E 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdFRsWllYWkVUNC1CWmhnWWNhMWdVb0E


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> new logs, kinda ran out of road but heres what i was able to get
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQH1lhuCgIfdHhJWHg1ZTFXNHBwcF9CSklxeXpFVmc#gid=0
> 
> ...


 your actual lambda readings are right off the grid. super duper lean 

I wouldnt drive it like this you'll melt something. 

what file are you using?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Rac_337 said:


> your actual lambda readings are right off the grid. super duper lean
> 
> I wouldnt drive it like this you'll melt something.
> 
> what file are you using?


 sorry had changed the lambda to a/fr forgot i did that


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

seems to be going super rich as i come out of it


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Leon mk1 said:


> never touched that map so this is not the problem





Leon mk1 said:


> myabe they are wrong
> but i never had problem like now and i never touched that map
> my long term fuel is +25% now insted of +-1
> so its can only be boost leak or one of the sensors
> not the tune anyway





Leon mk1 said:


> Wideband is front or rear sensor ?
> The readings in block 31 are still acurate compered to my Aem
> Wideband gauge but i am think its one of the oxygen sensor as you mention
> I will wait for CEL and confirm


 I honestly don't get why people come asking for help, but than turn around and talk like they don't need it. If you know better than those offering you advice, just fix your problem. Sorry if I sound like an ass, but too many people buy this software and than want the community to fix everything for them. Everyone is willing to help, but please be willing to accept help if you are going to ask.


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

I am more than happy to get help from everyone in this forum 
But sometimes not all the help i get is the right one or right solution 
Someone said it was the accel/deaccel map but i know it isnt 
So why should i say thanks and adjast this maps if it isnt that ? 

*EDIT* 
found what the problem was 
my fuel pressure dropped to about 1.5-2 bar because the bolt on the fpr dropped


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I don't know what I would do without some of the guys in here that have been helping me with Maestro. The help I have received has gotten me my car running better. Just wish the guys that are helping me lived near me so I could meet them and learn more about the software. 

Just wanted to put my 2 cents out there that the guys in here that help are greatly appreciated and if they lived near me a 12 pack of their favorite beer would be brought for them. 



sabbySC said:


> I honestly don't get why people come asking for help, but than turn around and talk like they don't need it. If you know better than those offering you advice, just fix your problem. Sorry if I sound like an ass, but too many people buy this software and than want the community to fix everything for them. Everyone is willing to help, but please be willing to accept help if you are going to ask.


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

As far as resistors, I have 4 of them but can only find 3 of the plugs. 2 of them under the intake manifold and one by the coolant tank and windshield washer fluid. Does anyione have any close ups of how to wire in the resistors so I can hopefully fixed my fuel trims or at least monitor them in Block 32.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Maestro tuning sub-forum request- *PLEASE VOTE* so we can get this thread organized and cleaned up into a nice sub-forum.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5777024-Maestro-Tuning-subforum-request


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> sorry had changed the lambda to a/fr forgot i did that


 I thought I saw in one of the logs it was reading up in the 18's under actual lambda?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Block 32*

I could only get the following till I connect the rest of the resistors up. Here's what I go for Block 32 in the first two boxes. 

Lambda (add) Self Adaptation: -0.6% 
Lambda (mult) Self Adaptation: -5.5% 

So how do these two look? 
Once again thanks for everyone assisting and helping me. 




Rac_337 said:


> go for a drive.
> 
> look at block 32 at end of drive
> 
> ...


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> As far as resistors, I have 4 of them but can only find 3 of the plugs. 2 of them under the intake manifold and one by the coolant tank and windshield washer fluid. Does anyione have any close ups of how to wire in the resistors so I can hopefully fixed my fuel trims or at least monitor them in Block 32.


 I cut my plugs off and soldered the resistors so that they connected the two wires leading to the plugs. There is a better option out there, there are plugs that are made up with the resistor built in, you just plug them in and call it a day. The choice is yours as to how you want to do it. The main goal is to connect the two leads in the plug together through the resistor. The resistance of said resistor fools the ecu into thinking that there is something connected in that circuit. 

I don't have any pics of mine as I just followed the DIY thread. Anyway as mentioned, you won't get adaptation until the resistors are installed.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Sabby, I sent you a PM, once again thanks for your help and ideas. 



sabbySC said:


> I cut my plugs off and soldered the resistors so that they connected the two wires leading to the plugs. There is a better option out there, there are plugs that are made up with the resistor built in, you just plug them in and call it a day. The choice is yours as to how you want to do it. The main goal is to connect the two leads in the plug together through the resistor. The resistance of said resistor fools the ecu into thinking that there is something connected in that circuit.
> 
> I don't have any pics of mine as I just followed the DIY thread. Anyway as mentioned, you won't get adaptation until the resistors are installed.


----------



## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

NJ1.8T said:


> I don't know what I would do without some of the guys in here that have been helping me with Maestro. The help I have received has gotten me my car running better. Just wish the guys that are helping me lived near me so I could meet them and learn more about the software.
> 
> Just wanted to put my 2 cents out there that the guys in here that help are greatly appreciated and if they lived near me a 12 pack of their favorite beer would be brought for them.


 i completely agree, when this software was recomonded to me, i thought it was more user friendly. however its not to a person that is new to "how to tune a car" 

i appreciate all the help, ive nearly given up on this, but you guys pull me back


----------



## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Could somebody please jump over to my thread and give me a little advice on adjusting my injector constant and BVC. I just need to know if I'm doing things right. It's the last post in the thread. Thanks! 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5596473-Need-help-piecing-together-a-BT-setup 



SGTphatboy said:


> i completely agree, when this software was recomonded to me, i thought it was more user friendly. however its not to a person that is new to "how to tune a car"
> 
> i appreciate all the help, ive nearly given up on this, but you guys pull me back


 I don't think anybody knew what they were getting themselves into when purchasing Maestro.  When I bought Maestro I was told in multiple instances that the base files were completely stable and needed barely any work. Now I can't say that is completely false however it isn't totally true either. Regardless its some [email protected] good hands on learning. Even though I wish the software developers would be a bit more open minded to helping users that financially back their software it's turning out to be a great community. Hopefully the developers don't decide to bag on the software (run with the money) and rather stay in the game and keep releasing updates. :thumbup:


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Rac_337 said:


> I thought I saw in one of the logs it was reading up in the 18's under actual lambda?


 i changed the excel chart to show that i had clicked on air fuel ratio. so now it should read more like it should. 
sorry for the confusion 

let me know what you think of the logs, thanks guys


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

travis_gli said:


> Could somebody please jump over to my thread and give me a little advice on adjusting my injector constant and BVC. I just need to know if I'm doing things right. It's the last post in the thread. Thanks!
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5596473-Need-help-piecing-together-a-BT-setup
> 
> ...


 *i would pay some one to show me how to use maestro and tune it correctly*


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> *i would pay some one to show me how to use maestro and tune it correctly*


 I would love to have ppl pay me to help them I.fortunately I can only for ppl near Rhode island. 2 hours with you does more than just reading can in months lol

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Sent a PM, Screwed up with files!! 




tojr1088 said:


> I would love to have ppl pay me to help them I.fortunately I can only for ppl near Rhode island. 2 hours with you does more than just reading can in months lol
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Block 32 Today*

Here's what I go for Block 32 in the first two boxes. 

Lambda (add) Self Adaptation: -1.16% 
Lambda (mult) Self Adaptation: -9.15% 



Rac_337 said:


> go for a drive.
> 
> look at block 32 at end of drive
> 
> ...


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

NJ1.8T said:


> Here's what I go for Block 32 in the first two boxes.
> 
> Lambda (add) Self Adaptation: -1.16%
> Lambda (mult) Self Adaptation: -9.15%


 your injector constant is way off


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> I would love to have ppl pay me to help them I.fortunately I can only for ppl near Rhode island. 2 hours with you does more than just reading can in months lol
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


 setup a time for me to come down, and i will :beer:


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

i was looking at flowmeter offset 
for the 200s4 and TT225 the offset is 200.00000 
for the hitchi3.5 it is 000.0000 

is there a reasoning behind this?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

i havev BobQ's "purple cams" i know he is no longer around. but my question is what do i adjust for cams in maestro?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> i was looking at flowmeter offset
> for the 200s4 and TT225 the offset is 200.00000
> for the hitchi3.5 it is 000.0000
> 
> is there a reasoning behind this?


 All Bosch Mafs have a 200 offset. Hitachi have 0. No reasoning except that's just how they are made.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Ok thank you.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Rac_337 said:


> your injector constant is way off


 Not necessarily. His fueling correction tables might be off, especially if he is MAFless. As you can see his idle is perfect, part throttle needs some tweaking. It's very hard to dial in those tables correctly.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

My idle is great, no problems there but my part throttle is horrible and I would think my fueling is off as my knock is way up there. I sent RAC_337 my two files, VVT and Non VVT to see if he could fix my fueling issues. 




mescaline said:


> Not necessarily. His fueling correction tables might be off, especially if he is MAFless. As you can see his idle is perfect, part throttle needs some tweaking. It's very hard to dial in those tables correctly.


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

who is running the "Boost Manager Plus + Water Methanol Injection" im on the fence getting it since i want more control over boost and have been thinking of adding water meth at some point. just dont want to get hozed if others have found it less than useful. the last thing i am looking to do is make maestro 7 any harder to work with.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

hey could you guys look at a log of my car and help me figure out why i'm leaning out under boost? it runs fine driving / idling until ~15psi and it leans out.. i'm 90% sure my hardware issues are all fixed and i can't figure this out besides it being something in my tune.. my fueling system is all upgraded so i don't see why i'm running out of fuel :screwy: (044 inline, -6 lines, ie fuel rail, id1000's) 

i'm running a 2.1L stroker with a built AEB head (still stock cams currently) 

this was a 6th gear pull so i could get a nice long log of the spool 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Au9d3K_mBqakdGJjSW9BN1JxYzlwT2dPNkZqR1JnWFE&output=html 

thanks


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

how can i control my idle ? 
sometimes its very steady and sometimes not much 
block 032 are +-2 
no vacuum leaks and no exhaust leaks 
the problem is in vacume at idle , sometimes its -55 and sometimes its -65 
i tried chagne minimum timing from -5.2500 to 0 
idle torque didnt help either 
i dont have log right now but i noticed that when i hit the gas pedal to about 1000 rpm at idle 
the timing jumps to 30~ 
engine load is 17-18~ 
and vacuum is -68-69~ bar 
egt is gaetting lower to about 400 

when car runing at ideal withot touching the gas pedal the engine load is bouncing between 18-21 
timing -4 to -6 
vacuum is -55 
and egt about 480 

at both situations the WB is fine about 14.7+- 

injectors are 630cc 
stock block, agu head + vvt tensioner and intake manifold,non vvt file (vvt file car runing very bad) 
awp maf scaled into 70mm housing 

optimum engine torque 
target filling 
accelerator pedal map 
those maps has any influance on idle ?? 

tnx


----------



## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Is running a VR6 MAF with the VR6 MAF sensor installed in it okay or does something else need to be done? The VVT base tunes do not state what MAF setup you should be using.


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Leon mk1- if you run the car MAFless at idle is it any better? With the MAF plugged in what type of flow are you getting and throttle angle (also what TB)? Are you running a recirculated DV? I had zero luck with re-scaling MAF housings, I'm wondering if you have the same issue or are running a vent to atm bov/dv.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

travis_gli said:


> Is running a VR6 MAF with the VR6 MAF sensor installed in it okay or does something else need to be done? The VVT base tunes do not state what MAF setup you should be using.


 Eureka! I noticed that Maestro has MAF profiles to use. I will try the TT225 MAF profile as the VR6 MAF is basically identical to the TT225 MAF. :thumbup:


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

DougLoBue said:


> Leon mk1- if you run the car MAFless at idle is it any better? With the MAF plugged in what type of flow are you getting and throttle angle (also what TB)? Are you running a recirculated DV? I had zero luck with re-scaling MAF housings, I'm wondering if you have the same issue or are running a vent to atm bov/dv.


 

I didnt try mafless, maybe ill give it a try 
I am runing stock TB and recirculate dv 
What is your maf sensoer and which housing ? 
Ill try to give you the right values to scale it 
Ill do log and ill post it here


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Leon mk1 said:


> I didnt try mafless, maybe ill give it a try
> I am runing stock TB and recirculate dv
> What is your maf sensoer and which housing ?
> Ill try to give you the right values to scale it
> Ill do log and ill post it here


 I used the excel sheet but sure - give it a try!

V8 S4 MAF into a 98mm housing

IIRC my offset was 285.6 and my scaling was 42% about.


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

DougLoBue said:


> I used the excel sheet but sure - give it a try!
> 
> V8 S4 MAF into a 98mm housing
> 
> IIRC my offset was 285.6 and my scaling was 42% about.


 offset 285.7 
star\end 42.83


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Bro\isk Spark Plugs*

Has anyone tried or heard anything about Brisk Spark Plugs. I wanted to see if anyone has had any experience with them as I was thinking of getting these for my Big Turbo setup. 
Here's a link to there website. I know they are for other cars and applications but I thought if they make a plug especially specific for Turbo Applications it might be worth a try. 

http://www.briskusa.com/products/spark-plugs/extra-turbo/


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> All Bosch Mafs have a 200 offset. Hitachi have 0. No reasoning except that's just how they are made.


 Exactly. Hitachi sensors have zero offset 'cause they _were born this way_. 



carsluTT said:


> who is running the "Boost Manager Plus + Water Methanol Injection" im on the fence getting it since i want more control over boost and have been thinking of adding water meth at some point. just dont want to get hozed if others have found it less than useful. the last thing i am looking to do is make maestro 7 any harder to work with.


 I have found that Maestro offers every bit as much boost control as BoostManager. The various parameters in Maestro are plenty effective.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Need a lil help guys. Can someone with Siemen 870's please tell me there injector constant and battery voltage constant. I'm trying help a guy get its injectors dialed in. TIA


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Exactly. Hitachi sensors have zero offset 'cause they _were born this way_.











:laugh:


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## methadone (Apr 1, 2005)

Hey guys, Im looking to pay someone to remote tune my car for me....i already have a pretty good base that someone else on here helped me out with (thanks very much, i really appreciate it). 

so if you're interested fire me a pm, ill send you some logs i already have, and my current file and we'll discuss how much. 

thanks in advance.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

methadone said:


> Hey guys, Im looking to pay someone to remote tune my car for me....i already have a pretty good base that someone else on here helped me out with (thanks very much, i really appreciate it).
> 
> so if you're interested fire me a pm, ill send you some logs i already have, and my current file and we'll discuss how much.
> 
> thanks in advance.


 that'll be fun


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

velocity196 said:


> Need a lil help guys. Can someone with Siemen 870's please tell me there injector constant and battery voltage constant. I'm trying help a guy get its injectors dialed in. TIA


 Read the thread and get on Eurodyne's forums. There is an injector wizard that will help you with this. You will most likely need the datasheet for the injectors to get the correct voltage compensation levels. You should do a bit more reading and research before opening up the application by the sounds of things. :thumbup:


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Well eurodynes forum pretty much sucks. And everyone here knows that or this forum wouldn't be here. I'm sure most are tired of trying to scroll through 96 pages of info as well.
But like he said there is an injectors wizard open it and see what it says. I have never used that size injectors or I would offer more insight

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

travis_gli said:


> Read the thread and get on Eurodyne's forums. There is an injector wizard that will help you with this. You will most likely need the datasheet for the injectors to get the correct voltage compensation levels. You should do a bit more reading and research before opening up the application by the sounds of things. :thumbup:


 That's what we were looking for. Didn't have a hole lot of time and was hoping someone would post up their numbers for us but as usually...no help :thumbdown: 



SGTphatboy said:


> Well eurodynes forum pretty much sucks. And everyone here knows that or this forum wouldn't be here. I'm sure most are tired of trying to scroll through 96 pages of info as well.
> But like he said there is an injectors wizard open it and see what it says. I have never used that size injectors or I would offer more insight
> 
> Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


 Wizard doesn't have a bunch of preset injector settings like it used to :thumbdown:


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

velocity196 said:


> That's what we were looking for. Didn't have a hole lot of time and was hoping someone would post up their numbers for us but as usually...no help :thumbdown:
> 
> 
> 
> Wizard doesn't have a bunch of preset injector settings like it used to :thumbdown:


 It takes literally 20 seconds in injector wizard... :screwy: You don't need to use a preset, it has a built in calculator to get you the proper starting constant for the injectors. The reason the presets were taken away is that all injectors can be different, this is why they are flow matched before being sold. Your set of injectors could flow completely differently than someone elses. 

Chris obviously took presets out because people were b!tching and complaining that their injector constants were off not understanding the science behind things.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Anyone have BVC values on the bosch ev-14 750cc injectors?


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

it's funny how little you guys know of velocity..he's been in these forums a longtime, and has some serious experience. just because he hasn't been on much lately and is asking about maestro..doesn't mean he should be shunned. 


def best thing to do is have the sheet, someone did quick how to recently..check back a couple pages in the forum...not in here..


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

travis_gli said:


> Here is the datasheet from Ford for the Bosch EV-14 550's if anybody is interested. :thumbup:


 When looking at this... what should I be doing to my BVC map and injector constant if anything?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

IM pretty sure you need to grab the 44.95 multiplier and calculate the new voltage offset for each volt figure.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> IM pretty sure you need to grab the 44.95 multiplier and calculate the new voltage offset for each volt figure.


 4 bar is 58 psi so shouldn't I actually be looking at 60.03? What exactly do I multiply to get me the correct offset values? In essence that's what I'm looking for correct?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

I may be wrong with this but here goes nothing. I would like to hear someone elses input 

You take the original values in that graph provided 

8	2.184 
10	1.435 
11	1.21 
12	1.041 
13	0.907 
14	0.789 
15	0.699 


You then multiple each right column by the multiplier, which is 1.1638 and get the following 

8	2.184	2.5417392 
10	1.435	1.670053 
11	1.21	1.408198 
12	1.041	1.2115158 
13	0.907	1.0555666 
14	0.789	0.9182382 
15	0.699	0.8134962 

you then need to conver uSec to mSec and then you get this 

8	2542 
10	1670 
11	1408 
12	1211 
13	1055 
14	918 
15	813 

The lower the cc/min on the ijectors, the higher the values 

I looked at the injector dynmaics 715cc and the values I obtained are higher then what is on the graph below, which it should be.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> you then need to conver uSec to mSec and then you get this
> 
> 8	2542
> 10	1670
> ...


 I don't believe you need to convert anything as you are already dealing with msec on that table. Correct me if I'm wrong... usec = microseconds and msec = milliseconds. I believe the datasheet already provides everything in msec which is required for the BVC in Maestro.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

travis_gli said:


> I don't believe you need to convert anything as you are already dealing with msec on that table. Correct me if I'm wrong... usec = microseconds and msec = milliseconds. I believe the datasheet already provides everything in msec which is required for the BVC in Maestro.


 I converted everything to the same values like ID provided as it made it easier for me. The conversion just moves the dot over, no biggie.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> I converted everything to the same values like ID provided as it made it easier for me. The conversion just moves the dot over, no biggie.


 Also stupid question and this shows my sh!t math skills. That provides 7 values. I believe the BVC table in Maestro is 5 values.... so how do we come to these 5 values. I just chose the values closest to those already inputted by Maestro. However I did notice that Maestro puts a bit of a *correction* on the values automatically when I input them into the fields. 

Can we get the IC from the datasheet as well? 

EDIT: 

These are the recommended values for 55cc EV-14's 










These are the new values that you just calculated... 










Is this correct? If this is correct it also proves that your calculations are correct as the default values provided by Maestro are fairly close to your calculations. (I'm guessing only a bit off due to the fact that the default values are probably for 3 bar)


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

I am pretty sure the 550cc ev-14 values maestro has is for 3bar. 

Maestro injector wizard should have a place for you to re-calculate the fuel pressure. I think this needs to be done before you calculate the injector constant. I dont have my computer in front of me at at work so i cannot check =/


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> I am pretty sure the 550cc ev-14 values maestro has is for 3bar.
> 
> Maestro injector wizard should have a place for you to re-calculate the fuel pressure. I think this needs to be done before you calculate the injector constant. I dont have my computer in front of me at at work so i cannot check =/


 I think recalculating the fuel pressure only changes the injector constant though. Could be wrong. I've been running off of those 3 bar values so that could explain ALOT about why my car runs like sh!t. :laugh: 

I should be using the datasheet values rather than the "wizard" given values anyway correct?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

travis_gli said:


> I think recalculating the fuel pressure only changes the injector constant though. Could be wrong. I've been running off of those 3 bar values so that could explain ALOT about why my car runs like sh!t. :laugh:
> 
> I should be using the datasheet values rather than the "wizard" given values anyway correct?


 You are correct, the injector wizard only calculates the inejctor constant. It does not chagne the BVC values. Those should be inputted manually either from your own calculations or if the datasheet provides it then you put them in from that sheet. 

Calculate new fuel pressure then injector constant and just try to start the car with the values I calculated and see how it goes. If it doesnt run then reflash to older file and we can start again.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> You are correct, the injector wizard only calculates the inejctor constant. It does not chagne the BVC values. Those should be inputted manually either from your own calculations or if the datasheet provides it then you put them in from that sheet.
> 
> Calculate new fuel pressure then injector constant and just try to start the car with the values I calculated and see how it goes. If it doesnt run then reflash to older file and we can start again.


 :thumbup: So use the values I posted a picture of (2nd picture) and see how things go. I'm guessing I should reset my LTFT values.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Just wanted to ask about a 4 Bar FPR and using that with the 630cc injectors on a AWP Engine. Has anyone changed from the 3 Bar to a 4 Bar with the 630cc file? If so how is it working out and are you having any issues with idle or acceleration?


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

NJ1.8T said:


> Just wanted to ask about a 4 Bar FPR and using that with the 630cc injectors on a AWP Engine. Has anyone changed from the 3 Bar to a 4 Bar with the 630cc file? If so how is it working out and are you having any issues with idle or acceleration?


 Unless your power goals are way above 500whp I wouldn't worry about going to 4 bar. You'll have no benefit. 

Not trying to discourage you from running 4 bar or anything but it could cause more tuning headaches than what its worth especially if your power goals are not that high. :thumbup:


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> You are correct, the injector wizard only calculates the inejctor constant. It does not chagne the BVC values. Those should be inputted manually either from your own calculations or if the datasheet provides it then you put them in from that sheet.
> 
> Calculate new fuel pressure then injector constant and just try to start the car with the values I calculated and see how it goes. If it doesnt run then reflash to older file and we can start again.


 Purrs like a kitten on idle. We'll see how things go after LTFT values kick in. I haven't had a chance to take it out on the road yet. I'll have it out tomorrow to get to work. :thumbup: Thanks for the help!


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Good to hear that. Keep us updated please.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

quick question: 

If I zero main fuel correction (1.0001) will my LTFT be affected?


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

What should the injector settings be for Siemens 630cc?

Also I have a slight idle problem that comes and goes. Is this because I have a Ligthned flywheel or is this something else. 

If anyone is in Ohio that can tune with the stuff hit me up as I will pay for your travel,hotel,food and for your time to get this thing tuned on the Dyno!


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, I am going to Charlotte this morning to visit Eurowise and have them tune my car on the Dyno with Maestro. Just want it to run great and also to get a new injector insert since one of mine is broken.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> Good to hear that. Keep us updated please.


 LTFT's haven't quite worked themselves out yet however I'm back to the cold start throttle issue and stuttering. Also very very horrible acceleration, it feels like I'm on a scooter in the lower RPM's. 



WiKKiDTT said:


> What should the injector settings be for Siemens 630cc?
> 
> Also I have a slight idle problem that comes and goes. Is this because I have a Ligthned flywheel or is this something else.
> 
> If anyone is in Ohio that can tune with the stuff hit me up as I will pay for your travel,hotel,food and for your time to get this thing tuned on the Dyno!


 There is a Siemens 630 base file that you can work off of. Idle is because of the tune not the flywheel. If anything a lightened flywheel should help idle as its less mass at the crank.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

travis_gli said:


> LTFT's haven't quite worked themselves out yet however I'm back to the cold start throttle issue and stuttering.


 VVT or non-vvt file?


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> VVT or non-vvt file?


 VVT


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

travis_gli said:


> VVT


 Have you tried the non-vvt file? I am at work so can't really read through your previous posts. 

I had alot of cold start problems with the VVT file, stumbling and ****. I have way less problems with non-vvt file and it actually feels better down low for me.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

travis_gli said:


> I think recalculating the fuel pressure only changes the injector constant though. Could be wrong. I've been running off of those 3 bar values so that could explain ALOT about why my car runs like sh!t. :laugh:


 
I don't think your battery voltage compensation values need to be changed when upping the fuel rail pressure from 3 to 4 bar. I have switched pressure back and forth repeatedly, always retaining the default values. Car runs fine at either pressure. 

EV14 550s can be run at 4bar on the standard compensation table; I'm sure this is not an issue.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> Have you tried the non-vvt file? I am at work so can't really read through your previous posts.
> 
> I had alot of cold start problems with the VVT file, stumbling and ****. I have way less problems with non-vvt file and it actually feels better down low for me.





[email protected] said:


> I don't think your battery voltage compensation values need to be changed when upping the fuel rail pressure from 3 to 4 bar. I have switched pressure back and forth repeatedly, always retaining the default values. Car runs fine at either pressure.
> 
> EV14 550s can be run at 4bar on the standard compensation table; I'm sure this is not an issue.


 I'm going to go with Dub-Nub's advice and switch to a non-vvt file. Would it benefit me to switch to a TT225 MAF instead of my VR6?


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Could somebody give a short run down on what Diagnostics they have enabled in Maestro and why. :thumbup: 

Converter OBD2 mode diagnostics 
Oxygen sensor diagnostics 1 
Oxygen sensor diagnostics 2 
Oxygen sensor diagnostics 3 
Lambda config 1 
Lambda config 2 
Evap leak detection pump diagnostics 
Missfire detection 
Cam timing fault detection 
SAI fault detection 
Rear 02 heater diagnosis 
Evap diagnosis 
Evap diag 2 
Rear 02 heater output stage diagnosis 2 
SAI configuration 
Torque control


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> Have you tried the non-vvt file? I am at work so can't really read through your previous posts.
> 
> I had alot of cold start problems with the VVT file, stumbling and ****. I have way less problems with non-vvt file and it actually feels better down low for me.


 I re-flashed to the non-vvt file. It definitely overwrote everything on the ECU as it took quite some time to flash however the car is stumbling all over itself in the lower RPM's. LTFT's haven't quite set in because there's only around 35 miles on the car however it seems to be getting worse. I checked 032 and I'm getting -6 and -14. Also it seems like the car runs hot, it just smells hot when driving and sitting still. I haven't pulled any logs as of yet but there is something definitely wrong. :screwy: I know its the tune because with every flash I get different stuttering results and if I put my APR ECU back in the car drives like a dream (just no power because of the tune).


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Tuning*

Well, I decided to go to EuroWise in Charlotte North Carolina yesterday to get my Maestro Fine tuned and get rid of the high knock and also the leaning out at high RPM's and Boost. It was suppose to be all day but I only got the morning from about 10am to about 12pm so two hours. They did some great work on all the graphs and charts. 
Anyways, When I first got it dynoed at waterfest I had 245hp with 232 tq. Here's a scan of my Dyno Chart showing what they got me in HP and TQ. It was about 85hp more and about 60 more torque. 
I really need a Electronic Boost Controller instead of the MBC in which you can see where the MBC kinda cuts the power half way through the pull then it kicks back in.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

travis_gli said:


> I re-flashed to the non-vvt file. It definitely overwrote everything on the ECU as it took quite some time to flash however the car is stumbling all over itself in the lower RPM's. LTFT's haven't quite set in because there's only around 35 miles on the car however it seems to be getting worse. I checked 032 and I'm getting -6 and -14. Also it seems like the car runs hot, it just smells hot when driving and sitting still. I haven't pulled any logs as of yet but there is something definitely wrong. :screwy: I know its the tune because with every flash I get different stuttering results and if I put my APR ECU back in the car drives like a dream (just no power because of the tune).


 That is very strange. The only thing i can think of would be incorrect files. Send me the file [email protected]@ya00.com (replace first @ with a and 00 with oo.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> That is very strange. The only thing i can think of would be incorrect files. Send me the file [email protected]@ya00.com (replace first @ with a and 00 with oo.


 I was made aware from a buddy of mine that it could be a MAF scaling issue as I am using the TT225 MAF profile with a VR6 MAF. He said to either try scaling the MAF myself or try re-flashing and running MAF-less from the start. What are your thoughts on this?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

travis_gli said:


> I was made aware from a buddy of mine that it could be a MAF scaling issue as I am using the TT225 MAF profile with a VR6 MAF. He said to either try scaling the MAF myself or try re-flashing and running MAF-less from the start. What are your thoughts on this?


 It would definately be a good idea to run maf-less from the start, good recommendation. Give him a slap on the rear for that one.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


>


 Nice numbers for a Mustang dyno!!


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Thanks, Appreciate it more then ever. 



a4e3y5 said:


> Nice numbers for a Mustang dyno!!


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Is there really that much of a difference between a Mustang Dyno and a DynoJet Dyno? Are the numbers on a DynoJet more accurate? 



a4e3y5 said:


> Nice numbers for a Mustang dyno!!


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

NJ1.8T said:


> Is there really that much of a difference between a Mustang Dyno and a DynoJet Dyno? Are the numbers on a DynoJet more accurate?


 Mustang dyno's generally produce lower #s than the dynojet dyno's; although most #s you see published are dynojet #s.

Dynojet is the "standard" IMO. That said, if a guy puts down x whp on a mustang; his car definitely produces at least that much power.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> Is there really that much of a difference between a Mustang Dyno and a DynoJet Dyno? Are the numbers on a DynoJet more accurate?


 Mustangs are called the heartbreakers because they always give u lower numbers, but in reality they tend to be more accurate numbers. Rule of thumb is to multiply whatever u get on a mustang by .13-.15 (13-15%) and that will give you around what u would get on a dynojet. So if u were to do your pulls on a dynojet u should be in the 370whp. Ask the guys if they remember what weight did they put on the computer to create the load on the dyno. I remember when i did my pulls the guy put my car at 3,500lb when it actually weighs 3,040lb. After weighing the car n entering the new weight i gained a few ponies


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

More accurate for sure. Certainly broke my heart

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## BlkMk2Jetta (Aug 25, 2008)

Well I'm not about to search through 98+ pages of this thread. I live in RI, I'm very interested in this software. Is there any dealers within maybe tops 2.5 hours from me? And people who can do good base tunes? I'm very sketched out about this software, being that Ive heard some people say that something went wrong during the download, and It didn't work. Its either this or Unitronic stage 2. This seems much more tunable, but I'm very new to software etc. I also love the fact that it has a reliable launch control and no lift shift tune built right in. Thanks to anyone who can help, would just really love to find a dealer :thumbup:


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

a4e3y5 said:


> Mustangs are called the heartbreakers because they always give u lower numbers, but in reality they tend to be more accurate numbers. Rule of thumb is to multiply whatever u get on a mustang by .13-.15 (13-15%) and that will give you around what u would get on a dynojet. So if u were to do your pulls on a dynojet u should be in the 370whp. Ask the guys if they remember what weight did they put on the computer to create the load on the dyno. I remember when i did my pulls the guy put my car at 3,500lb when it actually weighs 3,040lb. After weighing the car n entering the new weight i gained a few ponies


 I don't see how the numbers being arbitrarily lower makes them more accurate. 

Id go as far as saying that 70% of all published numbers floating around the collective automotive enthusiast world are dynojet numbers. Thus making dynojet the standard for comparison; after all that's the purpose of HP/tq numbers isn't it?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

They are more accurate tho. Even when u compare dynojet to engine.Dyno numbers. Mustang.dynos seem to be closer to the actual value. I mean either way idc I.just use.Dyno numbers to mark improvements in my tunes. Street is where it counts. So many ppl just want Dyno numbers to brag but I just use it on the same Dyno consistantly to mark improvement

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

The software is good. I'm in RI also and pretty good at tuning it. But if ur just stage two ur better off with uni. Uni has good traction control and maestro has tuneability and unless your a pro u may not getuch more out of it. It is nice for when u add mods like cams etc. But only if u can take advantage of it. Took me so long to even match my brothers uni 630 bt file in terms of performance. But when I have water Meth I can easily go beyond. 

But anyways for most users it'll do nothing more for u except get you more vortex posts on this thread 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

They also put down that my car weighs 3500 which I know it doesn't, not with taking alot of the stuff out of my engine bay and also thoughout the car. So just times it by .13-.15 and that really should be my total HP and TQ. So then it should really be about 370HP and 330TQ. I can deal with those numbers for my Jetta as it sure feels like it has more then what the Mustang Dyno said. Especially yesterday after coming back from a show I was at 130mph in no time. But I did learn, I do need some new sway bars so my car won't get all sideways when I try to slow down with the brakes. 



a4e3y5 said:


> Mustangs are called the heartbreakers because they always give u lower numbers, but in reality they tend to be more accurate numbers. Rule of thumb is to multiply whatever u get on a mustang by .13-.15 (13-15%) and that will give you around what u would get on a dynojet. So if u were to do your pulls on a dynojet u should be in the 370whp. Ask the guys if they remember what weight did they put on the computer to create the load on the dyno. I remember when i did my pulls the guy put my car at 3,500lb when it actually weighs 3,040lb. After weighing the car n entering the new weight i gained a few ponies


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

^^ur numbers are pretty good for a 48ar housing and the 3,500lb they put in. Even lowering the weight to 3,200lb should net u some more hp, so ur car is putting some decent numbers as of now....u have a good build.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

No way you are at 3500. My car with all deletes under the hood and a box of tools, spare tire and me in the car are 3080 (according to the scale at englishtown). When I track the car with the rear seats out, trunk gutted and a quarter tank of gas I'm at 2850. I doubt jettas weigh much more than a gti. Either way 300+ whp is fun for daily driving. 

The nice thing about your powerband is how progressive the power comes on. Mine slams you at like 3000 and keeps you pinned until 7000 rpms. Hard getting any traction in 1st-3rd even with 245/40/17's all around. 

Good numbers regardless!:beer:


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I have nothing in the beginning, I have to just wait till my boost comes on in the later RPM's like around 3900-4500. Wish there was that special something to get boost on way early as my Top End has plenty of power. I noticed it yesterday hitting 130mph and still having plenty more to go. 

So how would you calculate the weight of around say 3100lbs into more HP and TQ? 



spartiati said:


> No way you are at 3500. My car with all deletes under the hood and a box of tools, spare tire and me in the car are 3080 (according to the scale at englishtown). When I track the car with the rear seats out, trunk gutted and a quarter tank of gas I'm at 2850. I doubt jettas weigh much more than a gti. Either way 300+ whp is fun for daily driving.
> 
> The nice thing about your powerband is how progressive the power comes on. Mine slams you at like 3000 and keeps you pinned until 7000 rpms. Hard getting any traction in 1st-3rd even with 245/40/17's all around.
> 
> Good numbers regardless!:beer:


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

*+NEIL*+DIAMOND*+ said:


> I don't see how the numbers being arbitrarily lower makes them more accurate.
> 
> Id go as far as saying that 70% of all published numbers floating around the collective automotive enthusiast world are dynojet numbers. Thus making dynojet the standard for comparison; after all that's the purpose of HP/tq numbers isn't it?


 I'm not expert in the dyno area, but the assumption comes in regardto how they read. I believe dynojet uses inertia (the weight of the rollers) to come up with the hp, while mustang uses the weight of the rollers, the load entered by the person behind the ECU, and the eddy current to come up with the tq n hp; hence the more accurate number. In the end, dynos are a measuring tool, so as long as your numbers are going up u r doing the rite thing he he. Just adding around 13-15% to what a mustang read will give u what a dynojet would provide. Obviously, there are many other variables, but in the end, that's pretty much what it is.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/engine-tuning-214/760106-how-bogus-your-local-chasis-dyno.html


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/engine-tuning-214/760106-how-bogus-your-local-chasis-dyno.html


 My apple didnt fall too far from the tree he he :thumbup:


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

can anyone tell me if changes to fueling maps such as MFC or alpha n will alter the overall LTFTs?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> can anyone tell me if changes to fueling maps such as MFC or alpha n will alter the overall LTFTs?


 If the values you have in either table are requiring o2 correction than yes.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Anyone know the forumla Tapp uses to calculate Injector Constant? Im trying to see if its his personal one that he came up with or if its Bosch ME7 formula. If its Bosch then I am not sure if its correct.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

The Bosch formula seems to get you just close. I use percentage change and it works well too. Neither get you perfect but real close


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

RaraK69 said:


> The Bosch formula seems to get you just close. I use percentage change and it works well too. Neither get you perfect but real close


I used the bosch formula when i had my 70mm TB and 715cc injectors. then when i got my 75mm TB i went with Tapps wizard and my car is not running the best anymore. I had it okay, but now its gotten a bit worse so i am goin gback to my bosch formula numbers to see how that affects it.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

anyone notice the 80mm alpha and tb maps are the same for the 70mm file? or am I seeing stuff?

explains why i've had to up mine by like 15% to even get a good foundation for calibrating them. :banghead:


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Dub-Nub said:


> Anyone know the forumla Tapp uses to calculate Injector Constant? Im trying to see if its his personal one that he came up with or if its Bosch ME7 formula. If its Bosch then I am not sure if its correct.


I'm pretty sure its the Bosch formula as his injector constants were pointed out to be wrong several years ago.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

some of the comments on dyno in here is hilarious. your car will typicall ymak emore on the road than on a dyno...why? airflow, more air(and cooler) into the engine bay, better cooling, no added load from being strapped down tight as balls,etc.

secondly..an engine dyno will be higher than a hub or wheel dyno..no drivetrain loss at all. so saying that the lower numbers of the mustang are more accurate are silly. i say the lower numbers from a dynapack or a dynodynamics are ball buster because it makes you go fack...but in reality, it would take a wind tunnel dynos like the ones used by top racing teams(porsche,ferrari, renault,maclaren) to truly dyno a car...they add air at a higher rate of speed your shooting for and begin tuning and dialing from there..getting some pretty crazy results.

dyno's are still just estimators. i haven't had a single dyno in my area be consistent, let alone the same dyno repeatedly be consistent. it's frustrating, especially without a track which is still frustrating as my car won't hookup from a launch without traction control anyway, but that's for me personally..anyway.


dyno wars is a good judge to target with, but by no means is it the standard.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Vegeta Gti said:


> some of the comments on dyno in here is hilarious. your car will typicall ymak emore on the road than on a dyno...why? airflow, more air(and cooler) into the engine bay, better cooling, no added load from being strapped down tight as balls,etc.
> 
> secondly..an engine dyno will be higher than a hub or wheel dyno..no drivetrain loss at all. so saying that the lower numbers of the mustang are more accurate are silly. i say the lower numbers from a dynapack or a dynodynamics are ball buster because it makes you go fack...but in reality, it would take a wind tunnel dynos like the ones used by top racing teams(porsche,ferrari, renault,maclaren) to truly dyno a car...they add air at a higher rate of speed your shooting for and begin tuning and dialing from there..getting some pretty crazy results.
> 
> ...


Your post is very valid. Someone who has a basic knowledge on dynos will keep in mind what you posted when doing pulls. Maybe the word "accurate" is not correct, but saying it is more representative. When looking at a dynojet, it only takes the weight of the rollers to give you a number (unless it has eddy current). Mustangs use other inputs and parameters to give you a number, hence the "accurate" or "representative" word. Even on mustangs the numbers can vary if the load is not correct, fans are crappy ones, etc., but all in all, for poor guys like us mustangs are a bit more accurate than dynojet. It would be nice to have a wind tunnel dyno n pay 25.00 for 3 pulls  at least that is what i pay here at home.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

If you have never looked into how a Dyno works and specifically the software behind it(varies greatly between the brands), I highly suggest doing so it's quite fascination of how it all works. The Dyno's we all have common access to can be very accurate, quite accurate enough for our needs anyway, IF they are set up correctly. Sadly MOST places that have a dyno, do about 25% of the really required set up to get a dyno to run correctly... As long as it spits out numbers they, and 95% of their customers are quite happy, both parties know and agree to this.

Now to truly set up a dyno in order to have repeatability not only at your location but be accurate at another location requires the use of GPS enabled weather stations, which are quite pricy. In reality you only get by with a barometer, GPS locator(for accurate sea level height), and a thermometer but a full weather station would be needed for long distance comparisons.

Point is, 95% of shops don't spend the money to do this so there is really only 1 thing a dyno is good for. Tuning by relativity. If a dyno your at can't spit out numbers accurate to 1% between 3 quick runs turn around and walk away. Any dyno should be able to give you repeatable numbers or something needs to be fixed. 

Anyway, does anyone if the Audi V8 MAf is PnP with the AWP Harness?

Also would there be any interest in me posting my files to turn a stg2 file into my current stroker with stock turbo tune?

When through lowering boost to around 12, then slowly raising it through the target filling and modifying the opt torque maps to match.

went from a very jumpy spikey car to a smooth pwoer delivery with great around town driving.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i agree, hence why the numbers are awesome but random fo rme, yet i can put cars lengths on 600hp cars when we do big boy runs(60-150), anyway....we can all dream..dyno runs here no a/f are avg $120

seems to be a trend not to have enough fans either....fukn stupid ****. miss the mainland. anyway, back on topic


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Has anyone had issues with rpm dropping when coming to a stop? What's the cure for that? 

I wish we could change how requested lambda goes to .8 in this situation.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I have and sometimes I even get the jump rpm's when I let off the clutch.




Rac_337 said:


> Has anyone had issues with rpm dropping when coming to a stop? What's the cure for that?
> 
> I wish we could change how requested lambda goes to .8 in this situation.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> Has anyone had issues with rpm dropping when coming to a stop? What's the cure for that?
> 
> I wish we could change how requested lambda goes to .8 in this situation.


I have/had this problem too I know for the stage 2 file it's combonation of the accel and decel fuel trim tables.

I have it to the point were it will decel fine but the second I put any input on the throttle pedal it goes to .8 for a few seconds... Still working it out, but I think accel fuel was being to heavily used when Eurodyne was still using the LAMBTS style of fueling, when they switched over to LAMFA style tunes I don't think they revisited those maps to lean them out.


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

Rac_337 said:


> Has anyone had issues with rpm dropping when coming to a stop? What's the cure for that?
> 
> I wish we could change how requested lambda goes to .8 in this situation.


This guy right here was having that issue.

We thought it was crank walk. Try turning off 2 step/NLS and see if it goes away. If it does,you're gonna have to change your settings for it.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2


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## 20VCanuck (Mar 11, 2011)

Finally got my ltft working

Car is running a bit better. Still need a couple new gaskets. How does this log look?


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1QAoHst_baiQ3AyOWl6Mk14Vmc/edit


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

it's private...can't see it


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## 20VCanuck (Mar 11, 2011)

oops forgot, changed it.


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## heavyd1.8t (Jun 9, 2006)

Man, my shiz will do both. Sometime she will stall after letting out the clutch after given it **** for a sec, go to turn a corner and oh **** drop the clutch to start it up again..( have fun making logs )... Other times, I'll be backing up or some ****, give a little bit more rev then usual, then the stupid thing will rev it damn self to like 3-3500rpm and stay there, I have to drag the clutch the bring it down - yes my foot is nowhere near my gas pedal. After a couple seconds it's back to idle. Wondering if that was why traction control was opening the throttle for a couple of seconds after It engaged and after my foot was off the gas...... Tapp fixed that somehow, then the cruise problem was introduced....

Try pushing in the clutch when cruise control is engaged  Make sure to build your head first!!!!!!!


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## heavyd1.8t (Jun 9, 2006)

See heavydigits18t on YouTube


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

heavyd1.8t said:


> Man, my shiz will do both. Sometime she will stall after letting out the clutch after given it **** for a sec, go to turn a corner and oh **** drop the clutch to start it up again..( have fun making logs )... Other times, I'll be backing up or some ****, give a little bit more rev then usual, then the stupid thing will rev it damn self to like 3-3500rpm and stay there, I have to drag the clutch the bring it down - yes my foot is nowhere near my gas pedal. After a couple seconds it's back to idle. Wondering if that was why traction control was opening the throttle for a couple of seconds after It engaged and after my foot was off the gas...... Tapp fixed that somehow, then the cruise problem was introduced....
> 
> Try pushing in the clutch when cruise control is engaged  Make sure to build your head first!!!!!!!


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

So i have discovered an issue today.

I noticed that once corrections start to happen, I start getting misfires. If I turn it off and start it again, I will not get misfires until corrections start to happen. Also I see jumps in the timing when this happens (i assume this is normal as its trying to burn off whatever is there)

has anyone ever experienced or know what might cause this? so strange. 

will post logs tomorrow. stumped.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Rac_337 said:


> So i have discovered an issue today.
> 
> I noticed that once corrections start to happen, I start getting misfires. If I turn it off and start it again, I will not get misfires until corrections start to happen. Also I see jumps in the timing when this happens (i assume this is normal as its trying to burn off whatever is there)
> 
> ...


well still no corecctions, rubens tune was actaully giving me some knock so i went back to the stage3 base tune. contaced verdictmotorsports and hstuning sor some help. hstuning is doing what they can and verdicts dyno is down, so i guess untill i find an actually tuner that knows maestro i gotta suck it up. i appreciate all the help though guys and if we ever run into a eachother i got the first beer.:beer::beer:


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Rac_337 said:


> So i have discovered an issue today.
> 
> I noticed that once corrections start to happen, I start getting misfires. If I turn it off and start it again, I will not get misfires until corrections start to happen. Also I see jumps in the timing when this happens (i assume this is normal as its trying to burn off whatever is there)
> 
> ...


That expected as the car will not log small missfires while in coldstart mode


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

who here has adjusted for cams? need some help with this? :beer:
alos i guess i confused myself on importing the hitachi s4 maf file to my tune, can you guys give me some help?


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## DISTURBO (Apr 15, 2003)

Any one have a 1000cc file they wanna share. Im using the same file I had on my Audi years ago but the golf is not liking it, Its pulling timing on very low boost for some reason. 2L 75mm TB AEB Head OS valves and cat cams


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

any way to use maestro on android tablets? just wondering my laptop is on its way out and I have a tablet on its way. was planning on getting another netbook but would be sweet if could just use a tablet


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

A Maestro app would be siick. You'd need a new cable though ($$$$)


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Does anyone know why the main fuel correction table ends at 6360rpm? Does this mean that all fueling above that RPM has the same correction factor applied? Also can this table be rescaled?


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

looks like i will be aquiring maestro sooner than expected.

awesome. will def keep my uni ecu since well, it rules.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Vegeta Gti said:


> looks like i will be aquiring maestro sooner than expected.
> 
> awesome. will def keep my uni ecu since well, it rules.


I think you'll be happy with the results.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i know i will since i get to play with maestro on the regular already.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Vegeta Gti said:


> looks like i will be aquiring maestro sooner than expected.
> 
> awesome. will def keep my uni ecu since well, it rules.


You'll probably be the first guy to hit 550whp with a 3071 on pump, WITHOUT water meth


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

not until i go 1000cc. i'm way out of injector without meth lol. meth is the only thing making it awesome right now.
when i put down 442 it was in the high 70% IDC, and that was on untuned non-meth file and no billet wheel, and no fans for the car.

now with the meth setup, a larger nozzle and some time logging and tweaking i think i could hit 455-465whp on pump, i'm still getting heat soak, my awic capacity is too small, and i think i need a better pump for it as well. on the street i can sit around 48*C in the 90* heat after doing 5 or 6 [email protected] 2-8k back to back to back..on a dyno, with the extra load of being strapped down tight and the lack of fans around here...it will rob power and kill my spool.

dyno is just an estimate. wheel spin helps me spool, helps me accelerate and shows the power.


it will be nice to be able to take full advantage of the cams, head work, intake mani, meth, billet wheel,etc,etc


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## GetBoosted84 (Apr 1, 2007)

Vegeta Gti said:


> looks like i will be aquiring maestro sooner than expected.
> 
> awesome. will def keep my uni ecu since well, it rules.


I held on to my Uni tune as well after I went to maestro. Good thing too b/c I was trying to find the root cause of my late boost so I slapped on the old Uni tune & injectors and found that it's not the tune causing the late boost, it's gotta be something hardware related since that Uni tune used to put me into boost way earlier than I am getting now.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Block 032*

Well, After doing some 3rd gear pulls on the interstate today and then taking a nice easy 15 minute drive back to my house I decided to read Block 032 to see how it was doing. Here's the readings I got which have me wondering what the heck is going on. I was getting -5.44 Additive and -21.88 Multiplicative. Anyone have any idea's on how I can fix that?

I'm running the 630cc vvt file


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Do you know how to use the "Maestro Logger" vs. the individual blocks? If so, do the same lengthy mixed driving with the logger running. You'll then use that data in Maestro to identify the trouble-spots on your fueling map.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I will try my best, I only use the logger to do my 3rd gear pulls.



[email protected] said:


> Do you know how to use the "Maestro Logger" vs. the individual blocks? If so, do the same lengthy mixed driving with the logger running. You'll then use that data in Maestro to identify the trouble-spots on your fueling map.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Boost*

I also noticed in my 3rd gear pulls that there's a big difference in the actual boost and requested boost. Anyone know why is that?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Requested boost and actual boost are different because the file was written for a different turbo. It doesn't affect anything as far as I know. I'm not sure which part of the file determines requested boost. I would imagine it is a product of the values entered under the boost control maps, but I can't say for sure. 


I have two questions to put out there:

1 - Who has played with timing and what have you done? 

sub question - I have observed that the base maps have some weird timing spikes written in, I've smoothed mine and will test soon. Also I have noted that the timing maps are vastly different between the vvt and non vvt files, does anyone know how the optimal timing maps for cam position relate to the overall timing maps?

2 - Has anyone changed the target lambda maps for tuning purposes, or are you using main fuel correction to achieve desired af values? Is there any merit in changing the desired lambda values for wot tuning, or should we just stick to using the main fuel correction to achieve the desired ratios?

I'm going to play around a bit, but I'd love to hear the input of others on this subject.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

sorry everyone, school started up + moving + a minor sludge problem from heat + breaking oil kept me quite busy for the week, Rac I just read your PM and i'll get back to you soon man I promise I gotta just figure how to word the response.

SabbySC:

To answer your questions, 1 yes i have played with the timing maps quite extensively with great results, reduced, raised, and took out the dips and peaks in my timing map.

I can't answer the sub question as I don't have VVT nor a VVT file loaded BUT to shed light on your observation. The timing maps for almost ANY stock car(as well as fueling) always end up looking like this. This is because of how OEM's tune cars, to put it simply they make a base map, test it in every condition they can think of and adjust the car so that it is smooth no matter way. The average consumer wants smooth delivery of power whether they are in Florida, crossing the Sahara or climbing up pike's peak... When we begin to tune a car for max performance, even a dedicated race car we begin to tune out these compromises that the OEM's made because we know the car is never going to leave our general climate, altitude etc etc. We opt to forgo being able to drive our car around the world in order to maximize the power it makes in our backyard. Now is that to say you CAN'T drive a tuned car across the US? of course not but you might have some loss of power or knocking from coast to coast, but the ecu will be able to handle it. Also remember max power is NEVER the goal of an OEM especially in an econobox car like 95% of the 1.8T came in.

My Main fuel trim is and will always be filled with 1.001 I am a FIRM believer tuning in that table is a EXTREME last resort ass your just adjusting where fuel trims basically start on that table. I currently use only the power enrichment(LAMFA) table to control my Lambda and it works great... if you notice in the BT files now, Tapp has also switched to this table to control Lambda, guess I'm doing something right =) There is a huge benefit to tuning this, by changing the actual target you begin to use the computers adapation to HELP you rather then using it as a band aid to get results. By changing the target Lambda the car will actually, in a way, help tune itself for max power since it is always going to try and achieve that target. Where as if you using main fuel correction the car is constanty fighting against itself because it's always working towards reaching the target lambda, even at WOT, ME7 is always in closed loop.

Think of it this way:

If you were trying to give someone directions and they had a gps unit, would you:

A) give them the destination's address and let them follow the GPS directions, maybe needing to guide them in that final block or 2

or

B) give them the address 10 blocks down and then call them and walk them from that location to where your at?

A is tuning with target lambda, B is tuning with main fuel correction.... let the ME7 system work for you not against you, it will always win in the end =)


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I sent you a PM




sabbySC said:


> Requested boost and actual boost are different because the file was written for a different turbo. It doesn't affect anything as far as I know. I'm not sure which part of the file determines requested boost. I would imagine it is a product of the values entered under the boost control maps, but I can't say for sure.
> 
> 
> I have two questions to put out there:
> ...


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Just trying to remember, is the ECU Immobilizer Defeated when you get Maestro as I was to swap out clusters.


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## createddeleted (Sep 24, 2008)

NJ1.8T said:


> Just trying to remember, is the ECU Immobilizer Defeated when you get Maestro as I was to swap out clusters.


It's an optional click in a menu.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

createddeleted said:


> It's an optional click in a menu.


I had to enter a special code in the flash client; that tapp emailed me.

Granted this was on an early version of maestro; it may have changed


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Is it the Maestro program itself or in the eurodynes Flash with drop down menu?


createddeleted said:


> It's an optional click in a menu.


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

Anyone have IE V1 cams running a 70mm S4 throttle body? Im about to put cams in and my motor back in my car here soon not sure what its gonna be like with the cams


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Cryser said:


> sorry everyone, school started up + moving + a minor sludge problem from heat + breaking oil kept me quite busy for the week, Rac I just read your PM and i'll get back to you soon man I promise I gotta just figure how to word the response.
> 
> SabbySC:
> 
> ...


no worries man :beer::beer:

what do you have time delay for PE activation set too? is it safe to 0 it so it comes on right away?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

DISTURBO said:


> Any one have a 1000cc file they wanna share. Im using the same file I had on my Audi years ago but the golf is not liking it, Its pulling timing on very low boost for some reason. 2L 75mm TB AEB Head OS valves and cat cams


100 pages... wow haha monitor intake temps, coolant temps and Calculated EGT's. THey will all have an effect on timing which you can trace on your timing tables. Make sure your optimal torque map is correctly calibrated and your not overshooting your target filling values (targeted driver requested torque value). There is a POSt about that somewhere between pages 74-77 I can't remember which but theres also a option for you to overwrite the torque model influence (which is not the right way to tune but it definitely does the trick for most).


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Guys 

If I raise pump gas timing map, to I have to raise cam position timing 1 and 2 maps equal amounts?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

No not necessary.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I'd like to know why C.Tapp keeps those two cam timing maps in the selection tree. I believe he disconnected them some months ago.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

So no matter what when you go into Maestro and look at the Main Fuel Trim, All the cells in that block should be 1.001 throughout the RPM Range? 



Cryser said:


> sorry everyone, school started up + moving + a minor sludge problem from heat + breaking oil kept me quite busy for the week, Rac I just read your PM and i'll get back to you soon man I promise I gotta just figure how to word the response.
> 
> SabbySC:
> 
> ...


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Correct, when you are modifying the other maps to adjust for fueling such as your alpha n (mafless) or using your optimal torque to dial it in. It will throw off your calibration of that map.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

So your saying, open up Maestro, open the file your using and then go to the Main Fuel Trim and select the whole box of cells, right click and change them to 1.0001 



Budsdubbin said:


> Correct, when you are modifying the other maps to adjust for fueling such as your alpha n (mafless) or using your optimal torque to dial it in. It will throw off your calibration of that map.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

yes :banghead:


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Alrighty  eace: :wave:  


Budsdubbin said:


> yes :banghead:


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I just stumbled upon some information out of a book I read in the past... Something I completely overlooked completely. 

Have you ever wondered what the values where in your Optimal torque map? 










This chart in the diagram shows the translation from map output to Kpa values dependant on which map it is. There is also a relationship to load values, which to most of us it makes sense because your ecu uses this as one of your load inputs (hense the 0-100%). 










Take a look at the values in the chart you may notice that you see alot of the kpa values mimic what you see in your optimal torque maps. I have a feeling that those values are more than just input values that mean nothing but that is actually the kpa the ECU is requesting or targeting.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Another quick question for the 2 step. If I turn it on and place the numbers to around 4000rpm then I can actually rev it to 4000rpm to launch and then after that there should be no interruption till I slow down like doing a run for a 1/4 mile


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

If the stock sensor reads only to 22.5psi then why is 100% load equivalent to about 2 bar?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

spartiati said:


> If the stock sensor reads only to 22.5psi then why is 100% load equivalent to about 2 bar?


 This is only a theory of mine I havn't come accross any factual data to reference from the bosch document. Target filling is requested load (actual load is derived from map readings) which doesn't mean you will hit that request. That is why you can use this map and the n75 duty cycle map to request well over 22 psi using me7 ecu.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

I remember there was a site floating around for cheap ev14 injectors anyone got a link please?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Wow, nice possible find. Interesting it would make sense as thats how many other programs do it. I've never found a formula for ACTUAL LOAD, its plausable..so simple and right in front of our eyes. Wish I had the time to bust out the calculator analyze this in the torque equation. 



Budsdubbin said:


> This is only a theory of mine I havn't come accross any factual data to reference from the bosch document. Target filling is requested load (actual load is derived from map readings) which doesn't mean you will hit that request. That is why you can use this map and the n75 duty cycle map to request well over 22 psi using me7 ecu.


 Maybe I'm not understanding what your saying..but I have never seen requested boost above 25xx mbar (mafless), have you? With most other sensors you will run into problems/or threshold cap if you request something beyond the sensor limits.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

the maximum boost requested will be stuck at that 2540mbar cap. But the N75 duty cycles can be manipulated so that "request" ends up getting overshot, boost exceeds that figure, and the ECU cannot do anything to correct it. I do that using the Boost Duty map. But I don't know anything about achieving this via the load requests. Is that a better way?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Target filling is a torque intervening map some feel this map should be modified when overshooting values the map cannot read. Optimal torque map should be calibrated as well for VE correction when forcing the n75 duty to go beyond stock map readings(many in nefmoto have argued if this is the case). 

Your correct toolfan46n2, you won't see request over stock map reading. The main argument here is if the table requests 200+ kpa which is around 29psi how is this possible? I'm not 100% sure just yet. I have an idea but I would like to provide a sound explanation.


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## mrbdrm (Sep 7, 2012)

Hello 
im new here guys 
i need some help before ordering , eurodyne dosnt replay to any of my emails . 
i have a leon cupra 2010 (237bhp) 
does maestro work on my car ? i want to tune my car myself , there is no tuners near me . 
love the forum and you guys , keep it up


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## mrbdrm (Sep 7, 2012)

*any info*

hey guys 
any help on this ?  
eurodyne is not answering any email too .


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Not sure if it will work. 

Lets start with this. What engine code do you have? I could just check to see if it is available in the list of base files. Try calling them directly during regular business hours.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

mrbdrm said:


> Hello
> im new here guys
> i need some help before ordering , eurodyne dosnt replay to any of my emails .
> i have a leon cupra 2010 (237bhp)
> ...


 Did you call them?


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## mrbdrm (Sep 7, 2012)

spartiati said:


> Not sure if it will work.
> 
> Lets start with this. What engine code do you have? I could just check to see if it is available in the list of base files. Try calling them directly during regular business hours.


 i appreciate the help spartiati  
see if any of these engine codes : BWJ / CDLD / CDLC 
thank you again . 
i like to call them but my english is bad and it will cost me alot since im in saudia


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

mrbdrm said:


> i appreciate the help spartiati
> see if any of these engine codes : BWJ / CDLD / CDLC
> thank you again .
> i like to call them but my english is bad and it will cost me alot since im in saudia


 I don't see them listed in my maestro. Doesnt necessarily mean they arent supported. I would check into the TFSI 2.0t forum and ask there. They would likely know better.


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## mrbdrm (Sep 7, 2012)

spartiati said:


> I don't see them listed in my maestro. Doesnt necessarily mean they arent supported. I would check into the TFSI 2.0t forum and ask there. They would likely know better.


 thank you so much, i will ask there.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

mrbdrm said:


> i appreciate the help spartiati
> see if any of these engine codes : BWJ / CDLD / CDLC
> thank you again .
> i like to call them but my english is bad and it will cost me alot since im in saudia


 Nobody has broken code for the newer bosch ECU`s yet i dont think. Maestro does not support your car.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Maestro is out for 2.0fsi's I'm not sure if they have the same engine managment for the tsfi or tsi just yet.


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I wanted to ask about using a different base file and what would be the negatives or positives? I have a 2003 AWP Jetta with the BT Setup in my Sig down below without a MAF. 
I wanted to ask what would happen say for instance that I loaded up the AWP Stage 3 S4Maf PagParts VBand Tial Billet A28 File, AWP Stage 3 630cc S4Maf File or the AWP Stage 3 TT225 Maf File? 

Would there be any negatives or positives from running these files even though I don't have a MAF?


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

NJ1.8T said:


> I wanted to ask about using a different base file and what would be the negatives or positives? I have a 2003 AWP Jetta with the BT Setup in my Sig down below without a MAF.
> I wanted to ask what would happen say for instance that I loaded up the AWP Stage 3 S4Maf PagParts VBand Tial Billet A28 File, AWP Stage 3 630cc S4Maf File or the AWP Stage 3 TT225 Maf File?
> 
> Would there be any negatives or positives from running these files even though I don't have a MAF?


 Doesnt matter. All files are mafless. If you want to run maf just plug one in. Just make sure it is the same profile as what is loaded in the file.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> Would there be any negatives or positives from running these files even though I don't have a MAF?


 You should grab the AWP 550cc "FrankenTurbo" file. Chris defined that file for use on his own Mk4 GTI so you know the mapping is very good. It's easy enough to alter the flowmeter and injector specs to suit your car.


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Guys, 

Im trying to get my maf to work so I can calibrate some stuff, but its giving me hassle. Im running a 2000 S4 MAF and sensor, which I have selected from the drop down. 

If i plug it in, the car runs like garbage. bucking, running lean, stalling, etc. I know the sensor is good because it is brand new. 

Anyone have experience with this?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

sounds like you have a vacuum / boost leak. Check everything.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> sounds like you have a vacuum / boost leak. Check everything.


 hmm, everything was checked a few days ago. -22vac, pressure tested to 40 psi. no leaks.


----------



## GetBoosted84 (Apr 1, 2007)

Rac_337 said:


> hmm, everything was checked a few days ago. -22vac, pressure tested to 40 psi. no leaks.


 Check the voltage coming out of your MAF at idle. Mine runs like junk as well with the Eurodyne tune and the MAF plugged in but I'm only getting .1 volts from the signal wire on the MAF so it would appear there is something wrong with my MAF sensor. Perhaps you have a similar situation.


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

GetBoosted84 said:


> Check the voltage coming out of your MAF at idle. Mine runs like junk as well with the Eurodyne tune and the MAF plugged in but I'm only getting .1 volts from the signal wire on the MAF so it would appear there is something wrong with my MAF sensor. Perhaps you have a similar situation.


 :beer: will check tomorrow


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Has anyone tuned for cams yet? 

I have Schricks in the car 

I took a log a few days ago and noticed my timing advance is all over the board; in the 30's at higher rpm's


I have already brought in the maps for the 80mm TB, 870 injectors( rescaled with manufacturer specs) As well as the rest that are discussed in Rac's thread. 
Fuel trim is set at 1.0001. 
I am including links to the file and log. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao7DO3r50kI8dGY1aEZmRlQ4NVl2aHExNmZ2R01FRkE
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B47DO3r50kI8b2pKTXFoSXE3UzA


----------



## frakay100 (May 18, 2011)

*Intake Temps*

Your intake temps looks pretty high - That will effect your timing


----------



## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Can someone modify my tune I am hitting 24psi but I taper to 18psi. The taper starts at about 5000rpm. This is on my frankenturbo f23 it should be able to hold more then that right?


----------



## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> Has anyone tuned for cams yet?
> 
> I have Schricks in the car
> 
> ...


That first spreadsheet you're at idle and your IATs were at like 117* F. How hot was it in PA? :laugh:

I couldn't open the second spreadsheet.



frakay100 said:


> Your intake temps looks pretty high - That will effect your timing


Yeah but that was at idle. Should they be that high at idle?


----------



## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Now another question is why is my engine load about 20-30% lower then engine load spec? What's the two mean.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

frakay100 said:


> Your intake temps looks pretty high - That will effect your timing





schwartzmagic said:


> That first spreadsheet you're at idle and your IATs were at like 117* F. How hot was it in PA? :laugh:
> 
> I couldn't open the second spreadsheet.
> 
> ...


I will take some more logs. 

I have the IAT opposite the TB. Will the IAT sensor location have a major effect on readings?


----------



## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> I will take some more logs.
> 
> I have the IAT opposite the TB. Will the IAT sensor location have a major effect on readings?


I would ask IE about that one. I believe the have their IAT provision at the opposite end of the TB too. I can't where it would make THAT much a difference. I put my IAT sensor in the stock location on my excessive plenum just to mimic the OEM intake mani. I had an issue with my IATs being really high also. My buddy fabbed me up an intake and I got a new intercooler. Will run logs when I get my car back this weekend and see if they made any difference.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Tt maf*

I just decided to try the 630cc tune with a TT MAF, anyone have a tune that runs great with low knock and also a good Block 32 reading? I would rather try a tweaked tune instead of the files that Maestro has in their base files. I want to see if the car runs better with a MAF as I haven't run a MAF since I went BT.
Thanks and appreciate your help.
My email is [email protected]


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Alot of those base files are tweaked for specific applications. You just have to know how to use them.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

WiKKiDTT said:


> Can someone modify my tune I am hitting 24psi but I taper to 18psi. The taper starts at about 5000rpm. This is on my frankenturbo f23 it should be able to hold more then that right?


What are your duty cycles when the tapering boost starts to happen? Are they tapering down as well?


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> What are your duty cycles when the tapering boost starts to happen? Are they tapering down as well?


My duty cycle is about 72%. We have made a change to the tune and I had a bad map sensor! I will let you know. I will also send you my logs. 

Duty cycle seems to go up just not by much.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

*Here's Some Logs*

Here's Some Logs


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vim6phkldq4i6fa/he-wh450PV


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## Rolando_TX (Oct 14, 2008)

Hey Any tuners out there that would be able to modify a base file from a 2.0 TFSI Golf R? PM ME


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Rolando_TX said:


> Hey Any tuners out there that would be able to modify a base file from a 2.0 TFSI Golf R? PM ME


Didnt think Maestro Supported 2.0 TFSI!

Nefomoto might be your best place to look


Or just buy a proper tune from a tuner


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

So the files that say nothing about a MAF are the Mafless files which I know, but can you use them anyways with a MAF? Would they help control the A/F a little bit better? I have noticed that my car has a little better pickup to start with the MAF on even though I still don't have the DV plumbed back into the intake. I am just wondering, should I just trey the files that say MAF on them and go through the process of fine tuning again? I had others help me tune like Sabby and Ruben when I was Mafless. 



Budsdubbin said:


> Alot of those base files are tweaked for specific applications. You just have to know how to use them.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

If the only way I'm able to get my AFR's and corrections in line ONLY during high RPM/boost situations is main fuel correction, but in boost my car hit's loads of 206 it's totally off the main fuel correction table and I cannot re-scale the table because it's limited to 191 apparently.

What do you guys do?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, Tried using the MAF and the N75K Valve and it was just Boosting way to high. My gauge goes up to 30psi and it wanted to go over that. So I am going back to Mafless and MBC so nothing blows up.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

DougLoBue said:


> If the only way I'm able to get my AFR's and corrections in line ONLY during high RPM/boost situations is main fuel correction, but in boost my car hit's loads of 206 it's totally off the main fuel correction table and I cannot re-scale the table because it's limited to 191 apparently.
> 
> What do you guys do?


Are you mafless or have a maf..? whats the setup also including what maf you are using. I suggest not using the main fuel correction map. As you respond I can further help you. If I were to choose one assuming your other maps are in order such as your flowmeter correction (if using maf).



I have another question... though for those who have done it. What map would you use to successfully force open loop for fine tuning the alpha N and VE maps. I'm thinking of setting the DELay for closed loop to the max time which is 6900 or somthing around which should give me 2 hours.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Are you mafless or have a maf..? whats the setup also including what maf you are using. I suggest not using the main fuel correction map. As you respond I can further help you. If I were to choose one assuming your other maps are in order such as your flowmeter correction (if using maf).


I run a V8 4.2L S4 MAF and housing. I have shyed away from using main fuel correction map (for that matter all correction maps) for a long time now but it seems to be the easiest way to get my AFR's under load to hit the desired marks. Working on a friends car last night with WinOLS proved to be much easier with access to a lot more maps.

1.8L, AEB, FFE top mount 5857, Evo modified DV (MadMax valve), RMR intake, 70mm TB. direct port water injection. I've been at this for a bit with no luck- if you can point me in a different direction I'm happy to try it.




Budsdubbin said:


> I have another question... though for those who have done it. What map would you use to successfully force open loop for fine tuning the alpha N and VE maps. I'm thinking of setting the DELay for closed loop to the max time which is 6900 or somthing around which should give me 2 hours.


Setting your EGT threshold value should be what determines map change and closed/open loop as well. At least that's my understanding. I can never get my car to use the power enrichment map though. My car seems to use Lambda vs temperature pre EGT threshold then post threshold full load lambda.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

EGT will allow for you to switch from power enrichment to full load lambda (which is a safety feature but can also be used for WOT situations). I doubt it will keep the car in open loop although I'm not 100% on that.

I am beginning to work with OLS right now, I'm not good with hex editing or locating certain adresses but I'm learning. I do have a good knowledge of advanced EFI calibration though. Send me some logs [email protected] ME7 logger of course. and your base file you used. I'll help with what i can.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

DougLoBue said:


> Setting your EGT threshold value should be what determines map change and closed/open loop as well. At least that's my understanding. I can never get my car to use the power enrichment map though. My car seems to use Lambda vs temperature pre EGT threshold then post threshold full load lambda.


I'd really like to know how people force the ecu to use power enrichment all the time...that would be ideal imo.


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## jasn78 (Apr 15, 2007)

Guys sorry to ask this question as probably really stupid, but can m7 be run on 9n3 polo gti? I am just wondering more if the polo ecu is different from what you guys in the states are using or does that not make a difference?


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

jasn78 said:


> Guys sorry to ask this question as probably really stupid, but can m7 be run on 9n3 polo gti? I am just wondering more if the polo ecu is different from what you guys in the states are using or does that not make a difference?


hmmm i dont think polo engines are supported


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Perhaps u can use a US harness and ecu 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

jasn78 said:


> Guys sorry to ask this question as probably really stupid, but can m7 be run on 9n3 polo gti? I am just wondering more if the polo ecu is different from what you guys in the states are using or does that not make a difference?


If you want take a obd 2 cable and use nefmotos flasher to determine what ecu # your polo has. Then I can tell you if its possible. Just download it then hit ecu info.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Guys,

can somebody look at this for me. Its a WOT pull in 3rd gear. Theres a crazy rich condition between 2000 and 3500 and I cant figure out what it is. It only seems to happen when 99% TPS is requested in just that rpm range.

I've looked at accel fuel, but I have tried to lower it quite a bit with no sucesss...get the same results.

The only thing I can think of it being is the high values in the last row of alpha n are too great between 2-4000 causing this rich condition. btw the car is mafless.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnEsF67cPHNpdEs1Vm5KM2RFWElsdE1oc2txWWw4TWc&hl=en#gid=0

Also, AFR's in general seem to not be holding to target...wanders a bit. is this normal?


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> Guys,
> 
> can somebody look at this for me. Its a WOT pull in 3rd gear. Theres a crazy rich condition between 2000 and 3500 and I cant figure out what it is. It only seems to happen when 99% TPS is requested in just that rpm range.
> 
> ...


gotta share the file, I sent a reuest to see it. Are you willing to send me your tune file via email to review as well. I'll do my best to offer my view as to what may be causing the issue.


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

sure. shoot me your email and i can send it.

try this link:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3EsF67cPHNpejBxSlNHc0dud2c/edit


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Here is your file in an easier to view format: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApWYP2uwiRBidENieDZ0QkNTMFViU2pOQTNyRWVOSVE

Same google docs, but I like sharing them this way for others to review more easily.


Also are you asking why you have such large fuel corrections in those RPM range, or why is your target so rich? You are hitting the target albeit with large corrections, so clarification is needed.


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

sabbySC said:


> Here is your file in an easier to view format: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApWYP2uwiRBidENieDZ0QkNTMFViU2pOQTNyRWVOSVE
> 
> Same google docs, but I like sharing them this way for others to review more easily.
> 
> ...


To clarify, my question is why are my corrections so large in those rpm ranges. 

Does target A/F look too rich? That would explain the massive corrections. This file is using the stock power enrichment map, unmodified. 

If so, would it be wise to lean out my targets in those ranges? Does it really need to be so rich at such a low rpm? (with 8.5:1 compression I wouldnt think so)


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Could be, I have my current file running rich in that range and don't have such large corrections.

Are you running a larger tb/intake/head setup? If so are you running mafless? Again if so what alpha n and tb angle vs airflow maps are you running?


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

sabbySC said:


> Could be, I have my current file running rich in that range and don't have such large corrections.
> 
> Are you running a larger tb/intake/head setup? If so are you running mafless? Again if so what alpha n and tb angle vs airflow maps are you running?


Im using the alpha and tb maps from the 80mm SEM file. Im running a 80mm + SEM + AEB.


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Rac, I actually like your log. Coolant is perfect, boost is spot on. Just wish I could have that. For some reason my boost is way back and my coolant temp is always around 95 or 96. 



Rac_337 said:


> Im using the alpha and tb maps from the 80mm SEM file. Im running a 80mm + SEM + AEB.


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Alright, I have to start over with Maestro. For some reason my car is running badly. So I changed out the plugs for some new ones gapped at 26, also I put the stock N75 Valve back on in hopes that I can control the boost better. I am running lean up top and also my injector duty cycle is 97% at 6062 for some reason (fuel pump issue possibly)

So I figured that I will try this again and if the people that helped me, well I would really like to get your imput again. I have to say there were like 3-4 people that really helped me out with the files through email with files, logs and 3rd gear pulls. These people as I won't mention names deserve alot of credit on this thread for helping people like myself. You can figure out who they are by reading the thread itself. 

Once again guys, thanks for all the help as I will now be starting from fresh, the Base 630cc VVT File

Harvey [email protected]


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

NJ1.8T said:


> Rac, I actually like your log. Coolant is perfect, boost is spot on. Just wish I could have that. For some reason my boost is way back and my coolant temp is always around 95 or 96.


It runs great. but I dont like the corrections and how they are acting. I'd like to get it under control and more uniform, ie; all in the negatives or all in the positives.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

When I start up my car, for the first 2 minutes or so, my car pegs lean when under load. I've noticed this only when firing it up and leaving my parkade (going up the ramp). Startup is easy as can be, idle is perfect, but the initial take off is super lean. Any ideas as to why this might be happening? Once warmed up this problem doesn't exist.

I am running the base file values for warmup enrichment as well as target lambda vs temperature.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

sabbySC said:


> When I start up my car, for the first 2 minutes or so, my car pegs lean when under load. I've noticed this only when firing it up and leaving my parkade (going up the ramp). Startup is easy as can be, idle is perfect, but the initial take off is super lean. Any ideas as to why this might be happening? Once warmed up this problem doesn't exist.
> 
> I am running the base file values for warmup enrichment as well as target lambda vs temperature.


Change the warmup time for o2 sensor activation from 1.0 to like .2. Cant remember the exact map offhand.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Are you talking about time delay for closed loop after startup?

edit - I can't find anything referring to the O2, is it maybe under quick tune?


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

sabbySC said:


> Are you talking about time delay for closed loop after startup?
> 
> edit - I can't find anything referring to the O2, is it maybe under quick tune?


Yes correct. That one. Sorry its been a super long day.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Yes correct. That one. Sorry its been a super long day.


Will do, thanks. It was set at 25.5.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Ok, With the N75K which is an aggressive valve in and running Mafless everything seems great. Hitting about 18psi in boost. With Maestro, is there anything I can do to better boost by using the Boost Control which has the Boost PID, Boost Duty and Boost Correction for air temp?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Time delay for closed loop can be found under the fueling tab in maestro editor. I still have yet to try it.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

NJ1.8T said:


> Alright, I have to start over with Maestro. For some reason my car is running badly. So I changed out the plugs for some new ones gapped at 26, also I put the stock N75 Valve back on in hopes that I can control the boost better. I am running lean up top and also my injector duty cycle is 97% at 6062 for some reason (fuel pump issue possibly)
> 
> So I figured that I will try this again and if the people that helped me, well I would really like to get your imput again. I have to say there were like 3-4 people that really helped me out with the files through email with files, logs and 3rd gear pulls. These people as I won't mention names deserve alot of credit on this thread for helping people like myself. You can figure out who they are by reading the thread itself.
> 
> ...


 
Gotta get a fuel pressure guage and check that high end.:thumbup:Once you figure out the fueling issue it will be butter from there.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Are the lastest base maps using full load lambda? I have my egt threshold down to 700 but according to my logs its not switching...seems to be staying on power enrichment. 

not good as im getting some timing pull up top around 6500 

or do we just use power enrichment all the time and forget about full load lambda?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Once manifold and exhaust have changed your egt calculations will be off so you may have to go lower than expected to use full load lambda. I would leave it alone for a safe gaurd if excessive egt's come into play (specially if you have no egt gauge) and just use power enrichment but thats just me. I havn't run into a situation where I needed full load lambda for WOT.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Once manifold and exhaust have changed your egt calculations will be off so you may have to go lower than expected to use full load lambda. I would leave it alone for a safe gaurd if excessive egt's come into play (specially if you have no egt gauge) and just use power enrichment but thats just me. I havn't run into a situation where I needed full load lambda for WOT.


 Have you logged calculated EGT's ?

Mine break the non-vvt barrier of 472 with a 3" exhaust, e85 and direct port water injection.

Edit: my EGT log. 28psi WOT pull, 3rd gear, 5857, tubular FFE manifold, WB sensor ~3 feet from turbo


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Yes but only stock turbo maestro users in the last year. I havn't been able to work with my setup in a year hopefully next week. Should be done soon though. Not every manifold and turbo will have the same effect on egt calculations.


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

who in here is good with tuning and wants to look at some of my logs in a few days when i fire up my car? There might need to be some tweeking and i want an aggressive tune i dont mind paying a lil for the help! 

-i just switched to fully Built AEB Head with IE Cams 
-70mm throttle body and upgraded Intake manifold 

I am going to put the 70mm tune on the car and then start from there! 

Message me if your interested and are good at it! opcorn:


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

It's on it ways, just have to hopok up an inline fuel pressure gauge with enough hose so I can see it from in the car. 




Budsdubbin said:


> Gotta get a fuel pressure guage and check that high end.:thumbup:Once you figure out the fueling issue it will be butter from there.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

thats how I did it.


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

i have a question... can the map sensor map be rescaled to use a map sensor that reads more than the oem one?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

That would require maps that havn't been defined in maestro. So unless anyone has some connections with Mr. Chris Tapp it probably won't happen. Do I know which ones? Havn't a clue yet but I'm sure I'll need to look into it someday.


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

Was reading the mkVs can use a TDI 3 bar map sensor and have some way of recognizing it using a MAP wizard or something like that. Also someone very reputable was telling me about swapping out MAP sensors to one that can read more than ours to better control boost. Just wondering if they meant using Maestro boost manager which allows that.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

If the x axis of optimum torque is adjusted to be more consistant with what is actually happening, what must be done to target filling to compliment the changes to opt. tq?


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

also, do changes to Max VE LDRXN have a influence on engines if no N75 is being used? 

Can I use max VE to hit my opt torque target numbers instead of only reaching into the low 80% range? 

basically what im trying to do is hit my last comlum in optimum torque and actually receive my 90+% output. I've rescaled the axis but with the lower % charge numbers in the last two colums it drives funny (too on/off)


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

What are your default injection correction values? 

Not the skewed Tapp tuned files, but the default should be 1.0001 right? 

Adding time keeps the injector opened longer OR does it just delay the amount of time it takes the signal to get to the injector- opening/closing it later?


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

DougLoBue said:


> What are your default injection correction values?
> 
> Not the skewed Tapp tuned files, but the default should be 1.0001 right?
> 
> Adding time keeps the injector opened longer OR does it just delay the amount of time it takes the signal to get to the injector- opening/closing it later?


 injection correction is a factor added to time open (or on time if you will) at a given x y point. 

best way to dial it is to set to 1.0001 then do long logs and trace it. apply all histogram values, high light the map, smooth data until it looks good, then repeat. thats what has worked for me.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> injection correction is a factor added to time open (or on time if you will) at a given x y point.
> 
> best way to dial it is to set to 1.0001 then do long logs and trace it. apply all histogram values, high light the map, smooth data until it looks good, then repeat. thats what has worked for me.


 I'm trying to diagnose why my car likes to go so rich when coming to a complete stop that it smokes. Never have played with this map so I was wondering its function since I had positive values in it that I thought was the default value. 1.0302


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

MAF or mafless?


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

FYI to all, heres a good document to read: 

http://cloudy.cl.funpic.de/technik/motor/boschsteuerger.pdf


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

rac_337 said:


> maf or mafless?


 v8 s4 maf


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, Yesterday I finally got around to installing my AEM Tru Boost and A/F Gauge and I have to say I'm very very Happy. The Tru Boost has me actually spooling a little bit quicker and the response of car is much better. I was running a MBC which was ok and then I tried the N75 Valve and that was ok. But now with the Tru Boost the power and boost are right on the money. Also I now get to actually see that my A/F is right on the money and I'm not running lean up top. I would recommend these two Gauges to anyone that wants to electronically control their boost. 
At first I thought setting it was by PSI or Bar, but it's actually done by percentages and with the duty cycle. So now I am running my low boost setting A at 30 which is 15.5psi and my high boost setting B at 60 which is 24.5 psi 

Here's the car sitting at idle


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## methadone (Apr 1, 2005)

guys i have all my deleted stuff resistored. my question is, in maestro, do i leave SAI configuration on (it's been deleted but it is resistored) or off to ensure i have adaptation working?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

methadone said:


> guys i have all my deleted stuff resistored. my question is, in maestro, do i leave SAI configuration on (it's been deleted but it is resistored) or off to ensure i have adaptation working?


 My SAI config has always been off.

Drive for 20 miles or so and check block 32. If you have numbers there then adaption is working.


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## methadone (Apr 1, 2005)

think it would be harmful if it was ON? (like i said, its currently deleted and resistored)


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

methadone said:


> think it would be harmful if it was ON? (like i said, its currently deleted and resistored)


 wont be harmful, the ecu will just think its there when its really not. selecting off will just disable sai completely


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I have a question, I just got the gauges installed which I love. Anyways, after getting them installed and on my drive home I monitored Block 32, it was about 68 outside and as I arrived home after a 30 min drive both blocks were reading great #'s. -0.78 and -2.73 The next day I was driving and decided to look at block 32 again, it was in the middle of the day when the temps were higher around 79 outside and for some reason the 2nd block in 32 read -6.48 
What would have changed this, the weather itself or something else? 



DougLoBue said:


> My SAI config has always been off.
> 
> Drive for 20 miles or so and check block 32. If you have numbers there then adaption is working.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Those are adaptive short term and long term fuel trim values and will vary normally, however, if they fluctuate too high or too much (sometimes high +, sometimes high -) then you need to work on your tune.


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

NJ1.8T said:


> I have a question, I just got the gauges installed which I love. Anyways, after getting them installed and on my drive home I monitored Block 32, it was about 68 outside and as I arrived home after a 30 min drive both blocks were reading great #'s. -0.78 and -2.73 The next day I was driving and decided to look at block 32 again, it was in the middle of the day when the temps were higher around 79 outside and for some reason the 2nd block in 32 read -6.48
> What would have changed this, the weather itself or something else?


 -6.48 is actually not THAT bad. The fact that you had even lower numbers is pretty damn good.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Block 32

+0.75 on the first and -2.2 on the second one. 


That's after a month of driving. Pretty good. Not gonna touch it anymore.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I am attaching 2 of the pulls I did yesterday morning in Google Docs, if anyone can look and see what they think of them. 
First Pull https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdFBzUlJiaGJiVmFsNUZIVlAyV0hEYUE 
Second Pull, 2nd gear thru 3rd gear https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdG1mV095TVVmRFEwNC1HSjJCSDFKZWc 
With the pulls you can see the Desired Lambda is leaning out at the higher RPM's 

A friend of mine just tweaked my tune a bit, lowering the timing up top a little and adding some timing in the bottom. I will have to see if Block 32 likes that or not. Its just weird that somedays Block 32 is just fine and then on others it can be all out of whack. 



schwartzmagic said:


> -6.48 is actually not THAT bad. The fact that you had even lower numbers is pretty damn good.
> 
> Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Has anyone played with accel and decel fuel tables yet on the vvt files? 

also, what is accel/decel wall film factor?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

NJ1.8T said:


> Well, Yesterday I finally got around to installing my AEM Tru Boost and A/F Gauge and I have to say I'm very very Happy. The Tru Boost has me actually spooling a little bit quicker and the response of car is much better. I was running a MBC which was ok and then I tried the N75 Valve and that was ok. But now with the Tru Boost the power and boost are right on the money. Also I now get to actually see that my A/F is right on the money and I'm not running lean up top. I would recommend these two Gauges to anyone that wants to electronically control their boost.
> At first I thought setting it was by PSI or Bar, but it's actually done by percentages and with the duty cycle. So now I am running my low boost setting A at 30 which is 15.5psi and my high boost setting B at 60 which is 24.5 psi
> 
> Here's the car sitting at idle


 If this is your idle, and you are not running cams, I would have expected you to be sitting around 14.7:1 AFR and ~21 or 22 in Hg. 

My car was sitting at numbers like yours at one point and it was due to my front o2 sensor taking a dive.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

assuming you didn't get a gauge on that.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I did get a gauge on the fuel pressure and its not enough so I have an extra Walbro inline pump that I am going to install. Just have to figure out where is the best location for it. Some people have said right in the engine bay is the easiest next to the coolant bottle. 

Also I fixed the A/F issue and now at idle this is what it reads. I still have to figure out where there is a leak since I am reading around 16hg's 











Budsdubbin said:


> assuming you didn't get a gauge on that.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

NJ1.8T said:


> I did get a gauge on the fuel pressure and its not enough so I have an extra Walbro inline pump that I am going to install. Just have to figure out where is the best location for it. Some people have said right in the engine bay is the easiest next to the coolant bottle.


 A stock fuel pump should be able to idle your car fine.

If your fuel pressure is low at no load, you likely have a bad fuel pump. A bad fuel pump feeding an inline is not the answer


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

The fuel pump is brand new and installed when I did the BT upgrade. here's a link to the pump I got. 
http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10_45&products_id=1615 

Genesis Mk4 High-Flow Intank Pump from http://www.usrallyteam.com 
YES, we know. It's about darned time that a proper high-flow intank pumping solution was offered for the popular Mk4 chassis. 
This pump is a direct drop-in manufactured for Genesis by Siemens VDO. It is visually identical to the original factory parts and thusly uses the same factory fuel line, etc. The pump is already installed in a brand new surge tank which elminates any chance of fuel starvation when cornering. This solution is rated to support up to 400bhp (at which point stock fuel lines become restrictive). 
Direct replacement high-flow fuel pump for MK4 chassis (Golf/Jetta/Bora4, Audi TT, Beetle) 
Supplied in brand new OEM surge tank 
Stronger and less expensive than APR solution 
Quieter and easier to package than inline pumps 

Genesis Mk4 Intank Pump Flow Rate 
PSIG	Amps	Lbs/Hr	Gal/Hr	Ltr/Hr	Ltr/Min	CC/Min	Flow Gain 
40 5.8 176 29.33 111.04 1.85 1850.69	21.4% 
45 6 164 27.33 103.47 1.72 1724.51	26.2% 
50 6.2 148 24.67 93.38 1.56 1556.26	23.3% 
55 6.4 136 22.67 85.8 1.43 1430.08	22.5% 
60 5.9 151 25.17 95.27 1.59 1587.81	55.7% 
65 6.1 142 23.67 89.59 1.49 1493.17	71.1% 
70 6.3 132 22 83.28 1.39 1388.02	85.9% 


OEM Mk4 (non-R32/TT225) Intank Fuel Pump Flow Rate 
PSIG	Amps	Lbs/Hr	Gal/Hr	Ltr/Hr	Ltr/Min	CC/Min 
40 8 145 24.17 91.48 1.52 1524.72 
45 8.4 130 21.67 82.02 1.37 1366.99 
50 8.7 120 20 75.71 1.26 1261.83 
55 8.9 111 18.5 70.03 1.17 1167.2 
60 9.3 97 16.17 61.2 1.02 1019.98 
65 9.4 83 13.83 52.37 0.87 872.77 
70 9.7 71 11.83 44.8 0.75 746.58 













groggory said:


> A stock fuel pump should be able to idle your car fine.
> 
> If your fuel pressure is low at no load, you likely have a bad fuel pump. A bad fuel pump feeding an inline is not the answer


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

It may not be a bad fuel pump. That was just a first guess. We'd need more testing to figure it out. 

However, your low vac at idle and poor AFR at idle tells me something's up. You should try to get that sorted.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

NJ1.8T said:


> Well, Yesterday I finally got around to installing my AEM Tru Boost and A/F Gauge and I have to say I'm very very Happy. The Tru Boost has me actually spooling a little bit quicker and the response of car is much better. I was running a MBC which was ok and then I tried the N75 Valve and that was ok. But now with the Tru Boost the power and boost are right on the money. Also I now get to actually see that my A/F is right on the money and I'm not running lean up top. I would recommend these two Gauges to anyone that wants to electronically control their boost.
> At first I thought setting it was by PSI or Bar, but it's actually done by percentages and with the duty cycle. So now I am running my low boost setting A at 30 which is 15.5psi and my high boost setting B at 60 which is 24.5 psi
> 
> Here's the car sitting at idle





groggory said:


> If this is your idle, and you are not running cams, I would have expected you to be sitting around 14.7:1 AFR and ~21 or 22 in Hg.
> 
> My car was sitting at numbers like yours at one point and it was due to my front o2 sensor taking a dive.


I get that idle maybe -19 when using the a/c.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

The weird thing is, when I had my old VDO Boos Gauge it read -21 to -22hg all the time. So all we did was use that hose and run it to the AEM Tru Boost. So not sure if the VDO reads incorrectly or the AEM is a much better read of Vacuum and Boost. I have checked all lines and they are pinch free and also tight where nothing could leak!



sponcar said:


> I get that idle maybe -19 when using the a/c.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

higher idle load will also cause you to have lower vacuum readings.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> also, do changes to Max VE LDRXN have a influence on engines if no N75 is being used?
> 
> Can I use max VE to hit my opt torque target numbers instead of only reaching into the low 80% range?
> 
> basically what im trying to do is hit my last comlum in optimum torque and actually receive my 90+% output. I've rescaled the axis but with the lower % charge numbers in the last two colums it drives funny (too on/off)


Have you found out any more about this or done any testing? I've been curious about playing with Max be but I haven't had time to do anything lately.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, I finally got a real TT225 MAF and Sensor hooked up. Maybe today I will take a drive and do a few 3rd gear pulls and after doing so see how the car idles and also how block 32 looks. Also I have a spare ECU which I might decide to get Unitronics to put on the Big Turbo file for 630cc Injectors or I might just get a bigger turbo. The Precision CEA Dual Ball Bearing 5558 Turbo for better spool and response.




Budsdubbin said:


> higher idle load will also cause you to have lower vacuum readings.


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

NJ1.8T said:


> Well, I finally got a real TT225 MAF and Sensor hooked up. Maybe today I will take a drive and do a few 3rd gear pulls and after doing so see how the car idles and also how block 32 looks. Also I have a spare ECU which I might decide to get Unitronics to put on the Big Turbo file for 630cc Injectors or I might just get a bigger turbo. The Precision CEA Dual Ball Bearing 5558 Turbo for better spool and response.


Dont waste money on the 5558.... Get at least the 5858.... They both spool the same, the latter makes more power.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

so now i try to open eurodyne flash and it says account locked, down load latest version. i click ok, and nothing happens, i uninstalled and reinstalled from his website and still same thing......anyone having this happen??


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

It happened to me yesterday actually. What I did was sign into Eurodyne and downloaded the file again, it asked me if I wanted to delete the old file which I did and then it installed the new file. I went to my download folder and just sent it to the desktop where it worked for me. 



SGTphatboy said:


> so now i try to open eurodyne flash and it says account locked, down load latest version. i click ok, and nothing happens, i uninstalled and reinstalled from his website and still same thing......anyone having this happen??


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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

NJ1.8T said:


> It happened to me yesterday actually. What I did was sign into Eurodyne and downloaded the file again, it asked me if I wanted to delete the old file which I did and then it installed the new file. I went to my download folder and just sent it to the desktop where it worked for me.


I did the same. worked fine.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

NJ1.8T said:


> It happened to me yesterday actually. What I did was sign into Eurodyne and downloaded the file again, it asked me if I wanted to delete the old file which I did and then it installed the new file. I went to my download folder and just sent it to the desktop where it worked for me.


yeah i did the same thing and it still doesnt work


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

ok tried again and this time it downloaded 4.3.2


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Quick question about Boost Duty, What would happen if you increase the cell % in the early stages of the cycle up say 5% or so and leave the late just the way it is. I'm thinking the first 5 cells from top to bottom.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Anyone have experience tuning a b5 s4?

having an issue on a friends car with a tial 770 kit. keeps leaning out up top. requested lambda is .81 but its still going lean. 95mm MAF scaled using the spreadsheet.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

guys i need help. 

laptop crashed during a flash, now theres no info on the ecu and it wont let me reflash. what do i do?

halp


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> guys i need help.
> 
> laptop crashed during a flash, now theres no info on the ecu and it wont let me reflash. what do i do?
> 
> halp


Call Chris Tapp. Send him your ECU and cable. Be sure to include the appropriate international paperwork. It's 4:30- he's in till about 5.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> Call Chris Tapp. Send him your ECU and cable. Be sure to include the appropriate international paperwork. It's 4:30- he's in till about 5.


It's Canadian Thanksgiving, try tomorow.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

DougLoBue said:


> Call Chris Tapp. Send him your ECU and cable. Be sure to include the appropriate international paperwork. It's 4:30- he's in till about 5.


im in toronto. hes only 3 hours away from me.

will call in the morning.

its for a friends big turbo s4 btw not my car.

:beer:


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## TheSilver337 (Oct 29, 2007)

*Hmmmmm*

Is your hardware capable of meeting such a demand?


NJ1.8T said:


> Quick question about Boost Duty, What would happen if you increase the cell % in the early stages of the cycle up say 5% or so and leave the late just the way it is. I'm thinking the first 5 cells from top to bottom.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Has anyone had success using the injection correction map for dialing in there fueling? Previously I was using main fuel correction. Just got my car fired up again, done a few days tracing and logging...still got a few to trace yet but not sure I'm getting the results I want.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

main fuel correction should be used last. injection correction should be used to correct nonlinear injector response. Neither of these should be touched until you get your maf calibrated for your particular setup. But yes the trace feature should work because it would be giving percent correction values. 1.0001 would be the multiplier so if your lambda is being corrected for +10 percent to achieve desired lambda you would fill that cell with about 1.10. There is no "trick" or calculation for using this map.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Budsdubbin said:


> main fuel correction should be used last. injection correction should be used to correct nonlinear injector response. Neither of these should be touched until you get your maf calibrated for your particular setup. But yes the trace feature should work because it would be giving percent correction values. 1.0001 would be the multiplier so if your lambda is being corrected for +10 percent to achieve desired lambda you would fill that cell with about 1.10. There is no "trick" or calculation for using this map.


Capiche....I still have not installed my V8 MAF so mafless, just don't have the funds to get my piping chopped/welded adjusted for the huge ass diameter. I always had PERFECT results with main fuel but am trying injection correction since it has been deemed "the better way"

I may have been jumping the gun..I will know when I flash my latest tune--as it seems my histogram corrections have settled down a little bit. I was worried as I was seeing very large corrections and did not have corrections coming in so high on my old tunes. I'm seeing corrections needed as high as 1.25 (this is after I smoothed and bumped some stuff down) which seems high. 1.25 in select areas not across the whole map--I believe IC is close to dialed as I was only seeing -3%. Main fuel correction is zero'd out.

I guess what I'm asking is what is an accetable % increase? Is 1.25% ok? Seems high, what do you guys have in your tunes?? 

I guess the problem is MAFLESS so my corrections will be more significant since the ECU is guessing.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I would start off by dialing in the alpha n map then dependant on how your o2 corrections are behaving. Injection map should be for the fine tune. Maf and or alpha N / throttle vrs pedal position mapping should be your base coat. Then clear it with the injection correction .

Also your alpha N map should be dialed in when your injection map is 1.0001 so there is no multipliers screwing with your calibration. Although you will have to do this in open loop operation. So to make things easier on you just tune the injection correction map for the time being. If your getting really bad correction like 10 or more correction in some places you have a bit of work to do on your alpha N.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Has anyone had success using the injection correction map for dialing in there fueling? Previously I was using main fuel correction. Just got my car fired up again, done a few days tracing and logging...still got a few to trace yet but not sure I'm getting the results I want.


after tuning my alpha n, i've only used injection correction for fueling, with the exception of full load areas in the main fuel correction map; i've added a bit at the top.

heres what my injection correction looks like:










the only time i see corrections dip rich is on increasing loads, but for some reason the vvt accel and decel maps are far different (richer) than non vvt maps....still trying to figure out how to mend this.


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## torkme (Oct 11, 2012)

*Help?*

Need a little help.

1.8 T with a GT28R forged bottom end bigger injectors ect ect.

The tune is spot on, I got the O2 correction in check, the AFR's are 11.5 to 11.8 under WOT. Car runs and drives great under part throttle or daily cruise.

Here is the problem. When I go into the torque table and shut off the 100% load for timing adjust, my idle timing shoots up to 45 degrees and when ever I give it throttle it brings the timing down to 3.00 or less degrees of timing. I don't have any knock (1.5 max) to speak of. WTH?

Problem, when I give it WOT hit 100 load, the timing dumps to 1.5 degrees. I know how to adjust the timing map and I know how to make load changes but from the looks of it nothing I do makes the timing change when I hit 100 load. I cannot turn it off because it causes my idle timing to freak out and all the part throttle or WOT timing tanks.

If I could get the timing issues addressed the car would be making great power. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Thanks for the input guys. I totally did not even think about ALPHA-N. On my old file it was perfect. I changed the VVT settings across the board so I will look into what affects ALPHA N & VVT engagement/disengagment are having. Part throttle seems to swing quite a bit. I'll often see corrections jump/swing wildly up to 20% just holding a constant 5% throttle cruising. My fuel trims are OK but can get a better 3 & 7%. RAC337 thanks so much for posting your map. I was getting corrections in the 1.2x range and was getting concerned.

Buds, I made some formula programs and the KPA to load conversion does not hold out for me above 5000 RPM. However this may be due to running MAFLESS and maybe the ECM is fudging the equation up as my calculated torque seems to take a hit in this area as well.

THe car is damn fast though. WAY faster than the original files that came with Maestro. And the torque maps are much better tuned...I'm reaching desired timing pretty much everywhere where previously I couldn't hit anything in the midrange/spool area.


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## ANT THE KNEE (Aug 25, 2000)

I'm on the fence with going Maestro due to rumors i've heard of probs with deletes. I have no cat,sai,maf,n249,etc and need to be able to pass inspection. Can anyone out there confirm or deny? NY inspections are a PIA. Also are the base file upgrades free(ex:going from 630's to 830's, upgrading throttlebody)?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

ANT THE KNEE said:


> I'm on the fence with going Maestro due to rumors i've heard of probs with deletes. I have no cat,sai,maf,n249,etc and need to be able to pass inspection. Can anyone out there confirm or deny? NY inspections are a PIA. Also are the base file upgrades free(ex:going from 630's to 830's, upgrading throttlebody)?


It doesn't matter what software you run, you'll have the same issue when it comes to emissions testing.


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## torkme (Oct 11, 2012)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Thanks for the input guys. I totally did not even think about ALPHA-N. On my old file it was perfect. I changed the VVT settings across the board so I will look into what affects ALPHA N & VVT engagement/disengagment are having. Part throttle seems to swing quite a bit. I'll often see corrections jump/swing wildly up to 20% just holding a constant 5% throttle cruising. My fuel trims are OK but can get a better 3 & 7%. RAC337 thanks so much for posting your map. I was getting corrections in the 1.2x range and was getting concerned.
> 
> Buds, I made some formula programs and the KPA to load conversion does not hold out for me above 5000 RPM. However this may be due to running MAFLESS and maybe the ECM is fudging the equation up as my calculated torque seems to take a hit in this area as well.
> 
> THe car is damn fast though. WAY faster than the original files that came with Maestro. And the torque maps are much better tuned...I'm reaching desired timing pretty much everywhere where previously I couldn't hit anything in the midrange/spool area.


What did you change to hit your correct timing levels. This is where I am having problems.


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> It doesn't matter what software you run, you'll have the same issue when it comes to emissions testing.


This is simply not true.

I live on Long Island with Maestor with none of the above mentioned emissions parts on my car. They plug me in the computer and all tests come up as passed instantly. My friend & I both have Maestro and all the deletes on LI and haven't had trouble passing either car. I don't even resistor things off or run a rear 02 sensor...



ANT THE KNEE said:


> I'm on the fence with going Maestro due to rumors i've heard of probs with deletes. I have no cat,sai,maf,n249,etc and need to be able to pass inspection. Can anyone out there confirm or deny? NY inspections are a PIA. Also are the base file upgrades free(ex:going from 630's to 830's, upgrading throttlebody)?


The whole idea behind maestro is you change it all yourself so to answer your question- you pay for changes with your time and learning.


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> This is simply not true.
> 
> I live on Long Island with Maestor with none of the above mentioned emissions parts on my car. They plug me in the computer and all tests come up as passed instantly. My friend & I both have Maestro and all the deletes on LI and haven't had trouble passing either car. I don't even resistor things off or run a rear 02 sensor...
> 
> ...


I believe the issue has more to do with how the emissions tests are carried out. Some people have problems in some states whereas others in different states don't have issues. I'm not an expert, just going of what I've read regarding the experiences of others.


----------



## ANT THE KNEE (Aug 25, 2000)

DougLoBue said:


> This is simply not true.
> 
> I live on Long Island with Maestor with none of the above mentioned emissions parts on my car. They plug me in the computer and all tests come up as passed instantly. My friend & I both have Maestro and all the deletes on LI and haven't had trouble passing either car. I don't even resistor things off or run a rear 02 sensor...
> 
> ...


Seems we live in the same neck of the woods(i'm 5 mins from the coliseum) so the emissions are the same. I now feel at ease about converting from Uni(since i have there delete file). I was asking more about the base tune files they have. Do they charge for it each time? I understand the fine tuning is on me. Just trying to get a whole picture before i pull the trigger,and i'm unclear


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

DougLoBue said:


> This is simply not true.
> 
> I live on Long Island with Maestor with none of the above mentioned emissions parts on my car. They plug me in the computer and all tests come up as passed instantly. My friend & I both have Maestro and all the deletes on LI and haven't had trouble passing either car. I don't even resistor things off or run a rear 02 sensor...
> 
> ...


nice to see a solid answer about guys passing smog with Maestro. not that my car will get smoged any time soon if ever again..... but now i know someone has passed w/out any issues. now if i could get a 2nd license to use with my cable so my DD could get tuned.... wish maestro 7 was like efi-live were all i needed was to pay for a license to tune other cars i own.


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

carsluTT said:


> nice to see a solid answer about guys passing smog with Maestro. not that my car will get smoged any time soon if ever again..... but now i know someone has passed w/out any issues. now if i could get a 2nd license to use with my cable so my DD could get tuned.... wish maestro 7 was like efi-live were all i needed was to pay for a license to tune other cars i own.



Another solid answer my friend: It is. $450 for additional licenses on the same cable IIRC.





ANT THE KNEE said:


> Seems we live in the same neck of the woods(i'm 5 mins from the coliseum) so the emissions are the same. I now feel at ease about converting from Uni(since i have there delete file). I was asking more about the base tune files they have. Do they charge for it each time? I understand the fine tuning is on me. Just trying to get a whole picture before i pull the trigger,and i'm unclear




All of the tuning is on you and the selection of base files is free straight through maestro. You can change base files as many times as you'd like.


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Tuning*

I finally started to get the tuning down a little bit after getting help from a bunch of guys on here, Budsdubbin, Ruben, Rac 337, SGTphatboy in which I appreciated very much. I just spent over $10g on the turbo setup and was finally getting to enjoy driving my car again as the cool weather started to really make the car respond until yesterday. On our way to the 2nd Annual OctoberFest at Black Forrest Industries here in NC. I was with agroup of about 15 cars and while driving we merged into another two groups of about 30 cars. Enjoying the cruise and about 5 miles out from the event traffic came to a sudden slow down and then to a stop. The next thing I notice and feel is my body getting blasted forward and then jerked backwards. Well, not sure if the car will ever be the same, the rear is pretty bad on the passengers side all the way up to the roof. I only took two pictures before I was taken to the hospital. I am ok, just some whiplash and body pain / aches. Anyways, here are the two pictures of the damage. Bumper is pushed in especially under the trunk and the side is pushed in and crumpled.

*From this:*
















*To This:*







.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

That really sucks, the good thing is that you are okay.


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I'm still in alot of pain today, two days after it happened. But I will say, the Jetta sure did save me. I have seen other cars bumpers and trunks get pushed right into the rear seats of cars. I just hope that it can be fixed thats all.



sabbySC said:


> That really sucks, the good thing is that you are okay.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Can anyone who actively traces logs answer a question.

When power enrichment is active (targeting A/F from power encrichment map) do the cells highlight in PE during log playback. Mine do not. My cells in the FLL map highlight even if they are not being used for target A/F. For some reason I used to think they PE highlighted or has it always been this way? Wondering if this is intentional or a bug. Thanks.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Here is my current Injector Correction. This is the 10th revision with hours of logs. To me it looks horrible, the car doesnt seem to stop wanting fuel. Taking more logs with this map enabled praying it levels out but I'm not to confident. Anyone else have corrections this wild? This is on 630cc injectors running 22-24psi mafless. Block 032 -1% and -8% last I looked 2 days ago. This is smoothed out alot, it wanted many initial corrections like 1.35xx. Any thoughts?


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

You shouldn't see corrections of 35% corrections in this map should be + or - 10% tops. You are looking into the wrong map. As said before you will have to be looking at your alpha N. Also reset your fuel trims your bvc or IC may need attention. IDC good?


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Here is my current Injector Correction. This is the 10th revision with hours of logs. To me it looks horrible, the car doesnt seem to stop wanting fuel. Taking more logs with this map enabled praying it levels out but I'm not to confident. Anyone else have corrections this wild? This is on 630cc injectors running 22-24psi mafless. Block 032 -1% and -8% last I looked 2 days ago. This is smoothed out alot, it wanted many initial corrections like 1.35xx. Any thoughts?


yeah you have a lot of highs and lows with that. too wavy. i'd agree with buds and say you need work to alpha n as well.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

What size throttle body do you running?


----------



## mrbdrm (Sep 7, 2012)

Hi
im using maestro on my car and right now im on stage 2 base map 
my main problem is i dont know witch map to modify to retard the timing and witch map to add boost 
my boost right now is 15 PSI 
here are the maps i see :


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

mrbdrm said:


> Hi
> im using maestro on my car and right now im on stage 2 base map
> my main problem is i dont know witch map to modify to retard the timing and witch map to add boost
> my boost right now is 15 PSI
> here are the maps i see :


what is the name of this base map and engine code?


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Hpfp? High pressure fuel pump? 

It looks like that may be for a 2.0t ...


----------



## mrbdrm (Sep 7, 2012)

its 2.t fsi 
BWJ engine


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

mrbdrm said:


> its 2.t fsi
> BWJ engine


http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=996


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## mrbdrm (Sep 7, 2012)

Rac_337 said:


> http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=996


tried it and my car will go nuts with the boost going up and down all the RPM range .
question : why my throttle position is at 56 the hole time while im flooring it ?
regarding the requested boost issue this is my 12 time flashing and trying new thing to change and the only maps that work is traget filling and optimum engine torque .
right know i want to know why my throttle position is at this range ?? is it normal ? there is no errors or CEL .
click here to download the log


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

spartiati said:


> What size throttle body do you running?


Stock throttle body, driverside intake manifold port matched to AEB head.




Budsdubbin said:


> You shouldn't see corrections of 35% corrections in this map should be + or - 10% tops. You are looking into the wrong map. As said before you will have to be looking at your alpha N. Also reset your fuel trims your bvc or IC may need attention. IDC good?





Rac_337 said:


> yeah you have a lot of highs and lows with that. too wavy. i'd agree with buds and say you need work to alpha n as well.



Gotcha. IDC was getting real bad a result of corrections being applied from the injection correction map. So I reset everything back to my modified base file (IC,BVC,ALPHA-N). Once again Block 032 sits at -0.73%, and -1.8% after 50+miles. Logging shows corrections of +17% needed from 5-6500RPM during a full throttle pull.

I did find one problem, my HKS bov diaphragm is not sealing properly so I'm definetly losing air but I don't understand how that would make me run lean as it is preintercooler and PRE-map sensor. Never had issues maintaining lamda at high rpm it was always low rpm that was goofy. Now its perfect up through peak boost. Regardless the BOV needs fixed so I'll address that issue this week.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Stock throttle body, driverside intake manifold port matched to AEB head.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aeb manifold will make a more noticeable change high up in rpm so if ur not running a mad ur alpha n may need tweaking I those areas. Main fuel can be used if u can't get it right. I'd suggest running a maf


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Totalled Jetta*

I wanted to ask, since my car is totalled and won't be driven anymore, can the Maestro License be used on another VDub that I have or will I have to pay? Looking to now use it on my 08 Passat.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> I wanted to ask, since my car is totalled and won't be driven anymore, can the Maestro License be used on another VDub that I have or will I have to pay? Looking to now use it on my 08 Passat.


Contact Chris at Eurodyne, tell him what happened and maybe he can help you out.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Thanks Sabby, I just hate that I finally get the monies to go big turbo and someone rear ends me and well ends the car!



sabbySC said:


> Contact Chris at Eurodyne, tell him what happened and maybe he can help you out.


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

NJ1.8T said:


> I wanted to ask, since my car is totalled and won't be driven anymore, can the Maestro License be used on another VDub that I have or will I have to pay? Looking to now use it on my 08 Passat.


ill give your insurance company 20 buks for the car! my mk2 needs a hot 1.8t swap!...... sucks about your car man.


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

NJ1.8T said:


> Thanks Sabby, I just hate that I finally get the monies to go big turbo and someone rear ends me and well ends the car!


You better get everything off that car

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

That I will do especially if the other guys insurance doesn't give me the money it's all worth.



schwartzmagic said:


> You better get everything off that car
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Thanks, appreciate it. I put in over $14,500 into that setup including the turbo, engine stuff, interior, sound and labor.



carsluTT said:


> ill give your insurance company 20 buks for the car! my mk2 needs a hot 1.8t swap!...... sucks about your car man.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

So my car SHOULD be up and run by the end of this week, just waiting on my new intercooler pipping. Anyway I've been setting up a base map for the car and had a question. Now I'm using 550cc injectors at 4 bar so I started with the S4MAF 630 base file. SInce Im using the 550cc injectors should I be swapping the battery correction values to the 550 injector values?

GT3071r, 2.0 stroker, AWP wiring harness, gonna be MAFless for now until I can afford a s4 MAF

I think Rac asked how people were keeping the car on the power enrichment map, what I was doing was just raising the EGT threshold to a very high value and adjusting the torque Axis of the power enrichment map.

Glad to see people are getting a lot of this figured out, I've been away a while learning some other tuning softwares and such for the race team I joined so I'm excited to get back into maestro just gotta get caught up on the conversation!

Also saw a recent question about requested load and how the target filling maps can request well over what the car can read map sensor wise.

The way I figured it was this. 

You can request as much load as you want, the map sensor doesn't really do a thing to "control" the amount of load on the car. The car uses the MAF sensor to figure out how much load it has, the MAP sensor is simply there as a check. Now there seems to be a break down in the system once you begin to surpass the limits of the MAP sensor.

So you request a load based on the target filling map, the car then calculates the amount of boost it thinks it will need to reach said load and fills this value in for requested boost. If this value is under the hardlimit of 22.5PSI (2500mbar) and the map sensor sees the car go over requested boost limit and begins to open the wastegate to reduce boost. Now if your requesting so much load that the car figures you need over this amount that won't happen, since the load on the car is still increasing and technically the car wants more boost. 

*I think we can only see the requested boost hard limit in data logs but in the background the computer is requesting more.*

So basically what I think is happening is after 22.5PSI you're flying blind in terms of datalogging your boost.

The way on the maestro forum works because the boost duty map is simply a base for the duty cycle of the N75 based on TPS and RPM. The ecu begins to adjust from this value when it starts to make it's corrections to smooth out your boost profile. That being said the ecu can only adjust so much since this map was supposedly "set from the factory withing a tolerance of X amount"

*I don't know how much the ecu can actually change the value via adjustment at this time*

So if you slam all the values to 100% the ecu will take away a much as it can during the learning process, and once its out of adjustment room that's the value it will use. It would probably throw a code if we had the code enabled but most tuned files do not.

Boost PID is simply how fast and quickly the N75 will react in order to reach target boost. Now I used fast and quickly for a reason, they mean 2 different things in this case. A scenario that helped me understand this after a lot of thinking was this:

Image PID like your foot on the gas pedal trying to imitate cruise control.

"P" would be the value your at now
"D" would be the value cruise was set at
"I" would be how many time and how quickly you moved your foot to get to "D"

in the case of ME7, P would be actual boost, and D would be requested boost, the boost PID map control the "I" value

So what the boost PID map does is control the behavior of the N75 value, high values result in more jerky,quick,small changes in order to eliminate overshooting of the "P" value from the "D" value. As you begin to lower the PID map values you begin to allow more overshoot because the N75 will react slower yet make smoother and bigger changes each time it acts upon system. This was a major component that allowed me to hold my boost for much longer on the stock turbo.

Also a thing to note about the PID map is the X axis is in absolute pressure, meaning it is the value you see fro actual boost. The majority of this map isn't used until you begin to see lower pressure from higher altitudes. Like the power enrichment map, to begin to use this map as a tuning device you will need to edit the axis, as once you pass 1PSI your already in the last column of the map. I found I really only need to shift the map 2 column over to notice changes and increasing the resolution in the boost range,on the stock turbo, past that didn't really do much of anything. But lowering the values past say 12PSI did help to reduce spikes and jerkiness in higher boost partial throttle and allowed the small k03s to hold a bit more boost in the high end.

anyway, even though I've been away from the boards I haven't stop thinking about this stuff =) I'll be of much more use in the days to come now that I have my very own BT set up to mess around with . I'll be experimenting with MAF and MAFLESS set ups as well, back to catching up on the thread


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser def run the 550 BVC values.


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

that's what I figured and inputted. Thanks Spartiati!


----------



## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> Anyone have experience tuning a b5 s4?
> 
> having an issue on a friends car with a tial 770 kit. keeps leaning out up top. requested lambda is .81 but its still going lean. 95mm MAF scaled using the spreadsheet.


.81 **** mine is set at .78 would rather be safe then sorry.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> Anyone have experience tuning a b5 s4?
> 
> having an issue on a friends car with a tial 770 kit. keeps leaning out up top. requested lambda is .81 but its still going lean. 95mm MAF scaled using the spreadsheet.


Look into calculating his current duty cycle, he might be running out of injector OR the fuel pump might be on the way out causing the car to not be able to pump enough fuel




> .81 **** mine is set at .78 would rather be safe then sorry.


Your really not adding any "Safety" into your tune by running so rich, all your doing is wasting fuel. After around 12.2 -11.8 the extra fuel is no longer able to cool anymore of the combustion process. Anything past 11.8 is futile and you begin to risk washing the cylinder walls with excess fuel as well as excess fuel being thrown into your exhaust and turbocharger and being ignited in there which is no good at all. All of the basic rules of tuning found on the internet that advise this sort of thing are bull****, more fuel isn't always the answer to a turbo tune and despite popular believe there is such a thing as too rich on a turbocharged set up. The size of your turbocharger does not effect the combustion process like many of these rules lead you to believe.


----------



## kraftaroni (Feb 1, 2005)

*Hhheeelpppp. *

I finally flashed my car or tried to flash it tonight. I'm trying to run the TAPP 1000cc AWM file on my B6 2002 a4. I could not run a log because it basically would not run. I'm thinking it's because of the 3" maf. Are there any easy corrections I can make for this so I can get a baseline and get this thing running. Funny thing is I made it run with a stock tune and 720CC injectors on the 3" maf and it runs great the AFR's are a little rich high 14's. List of mods. 
2.1 I.E. stroker kit. 
Ported AMB head with intake manifold
GT3076 ATP Turbo 
3" exhaust and downpipe
3" maf and intake tube. with K&N in stock air box
1000cc injector dynaamics
Bosch 040 pump
Stock 3 bar regulator
Build link
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5735344-B6-avant-1.8t-build&p=79243321#post79243321


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

kraftaroni said:


> I finally flashed my car or tried to flash it tonight. I'm trying to run the TAPP 1000cc AWM file on my B6 2002 a4. I could not run a log because it basically would not run. I'm thinking it's because of the 3" maf. Are there any easy corrections I can make for this so I can get a baseline and get this thing running. Funny thing is I made it run with a stock tune and 720CC injectors on the 3" maf and it runs great the AFR's are a little rich high 14's.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> you have it backwards, high 14's is lean... extremely lean for boost as in your gonna melt **** very soon lean if your boosting a 76r with that AFR.
> ...


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Thats a very good interpretation of the boost PID table and it all makes perfect sense:thumbup: welcome to the BT community.:beer:


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## kraftaroni (Feb 1, 2005)

If I'm using the stock maf in a tt 225 housing which is 3" is this the one I choose? 
Chris
the choices are s4
Audi v8
tt225
and 
hitachi 3.5


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

kraftaroni said:


> If I'm using the stock maf in a tt 225 housing which is 3" is this the one I choose?
> Chris
> the choices are s4
> Audi v8
> ...


None of the above. Those profiles should be used with their respective sensor and housing. I had this discussion with Chris Tapp a long time ago.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

spartiati said:


> None of the above. Those profiles should be used with their respective sensor and housing. I had this discussion with Chris Tapp a long time ago.


is RS4 (v6 bi-turbo) one of maestro's option on maf's?


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

badger5 said:


> is RS4 (v6 bi-turbo) one of maestro's option on maf's?


I have only messed around with awp base files. The only ones available off the top of my head are : 
AWP
TT225
B5S4
Hitachi 3.5

No option for rs4. Was it larger than than the b5 S4?


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I have only messed around with awp base files. The only ones available off the top of my head are :
> AWP
> TT225
> B5S4
> ...


From my understand the S4 MAF is 73mm and maxes around 365g/sec which is around 450chp using the general rule of 0.8

the RS4 MAF is 83mm and maxes around 500 g/sec for around 625chp using the same rule

It would be very nice to have the RS4 MAF profile as it lies perfectly in between the S4 and the V8 Maf and that is the range a lot of people are going to be happy in.

I've read a lot of the guys on S$ that are maxing the k04's will upgrade to an RS4 maf to find a bit of power, because it's much better/easier to tune a car when your not completely maxing out the MAF sensor


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Cryser said:


> From my understand the S4 MAF is 73mm and maxes around 365g/sec which is around 450chp using the general rule of 0.8
> 
> the RS4 MAF is 83mm and maxes around 500 g/sec for around 625chp using the same rule
> 
> ...


Could you cross check the MAF info i have in the faq and let me know what you find?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Some additional info courtesy of the S4 2.7T crowd:

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Mass_air_flow


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

groggory said:


> Could you cross check the MAF info i have in the faq and let me know what you find?


sure I'll take a look at it over the weekend grog


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

spartiati said:


> I have only messed around with awp base files. The only ones available off the top of my head are :
> AWP
> TT225
> B5S4
> ...


yea I think so.. S4 is 90mm, RS4 95mm OD


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## G.Mathias (Nov 1, 2012)

badger5 said:


> yea I think so.. S4 is 90mm, RS4 95mm OD


S4 is 73mm
RS4 is 83mm

You guys need to start using ID not OD. If you guys are trying to tune, you can't go by outside diameter.


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

G.Mathias said:


> S4 is 73mm
> RS4 is 83mm
> 
> You guys need to start using ID not OD. If you guys are trying to tune, you can't go by outside diameter.


Here's what I have in the FAQ for MAF's

*MAF Housing*
(Diameters are outside diameters)


 2.75" OD
60mm ID = 2.36"
Comes stock on most versions of the 1.8t such as the AWP
Housing Part # _______
 ??? OD
70mm ID = 2.76"
TT225
 3" OD
73mm ID = 2.874"
Comes stock on B5 S4 & mk4 VR6 
Housing Part # 280 217 529
 Eurocode Billet 3" Housing
APR Stg3/ 3+ Cast 3" Housing
 ?? OD
83mm ID = 3.27"
RS4


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

G.Mathias said:


> S4 is 73mm
> RS4 is 83mm
> 
> You guys need to start using ID not OD. If you guys are trying to tune, you can't go by outside diameter.


I only am concerned with the inside diameter as the outside diameter really means **** all except the size coupler your gonna use and which T bolt clamp =)

but yes these numbers match up with my research for ID of both these MAF's

what we REALLY need to nail down is the MAX g/sec numbers for these MAFs as we as, and more importantly, the 3-4.5 volt range for them. This way we can begin to compile a list of which MAFs to use for what horsepower goals. since running a MAF at it's out limits 5v will reduce it's life having the 3-4.5 volt range in g/sec and more importantly horsepower numbers will allow for a FAQs that can suggest a MAF size that will LAST for people's horsepower goals. Knowing the Max numbers will allow up to have a good enough guess based on the Maestro Profiles of the 3-4.5 volt range.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Cryser said:


> what we REALLY need to nail down is the MAX g/sec numbers for these MAFs as we as, and more importantly, the 3-4.5 volt range for them. This way we can begin to compile a list of which MAFs to use for what horsepower goals. since running a MAF at it's out limits 5v will reduce it's life having the 3-4.5 volt range in g/sec and more importantly horsepower numbers will allow for a FAQs that can suggest a MAF size that will LAST for people's horsepower goals. Knowing the Max numbers will allow up to have a good enough guess based on the Maestro Profiles of the 3-4.5 volt range.


why didn't you look at the link I posted? your info is just sitting there, already figured out.


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I did doug, that's how I got my numbers for the S4 MAF and the RS4 MAF in my post =) I'm saying we need to do this for all the MAF profile available in maestro atm =)


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

G.Mathias said:


> S4 is 73mm
> RS4 is 83mm
> 
> You guys need to start using ID not OD. If you guys are trying to tune, you can't go by outside diameter.


lmao

jeez, I did'nt know that.


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Cryser said:


> I only am concerned with the inside diameter as the outside diameter really means **** all except the size coupler your gonna use and which T bolt clamp =)
> 
> but yes these numbers match up with my research for ID of both these MAF's
> 
> what we REALLY need to nail down is the MAX g/sec numbers for these MAFs as we as, and more importantly, the 3-4.5 volt range for them. This way we can begin to compile a list of which MAFs to use for what horsepower goals. since running a MAF at it's out limits 5v will reduce it's life having the 3-4.5 volt range in g/sec and more importantly horsepower numbers will allow for a FAQs that can suggest a MAF size that will LAST for people's horsepower goals. Knowing the Max numbers will allow up to have a good enough guess based on the Maestro Profiles of the 3-4.5 volt range.


there is also a 200 offset for bosch maf's to allow for on maf scalers... Its 512x1 length map
max value is 1996kg/h on RS4. 0.9863v is 199.6kg/h so looks to be essentially zero point allowing for the 200 offset. MAF sensor 1v-4.9*v range

3v--> max below (not sure how well this will come across on the post)

```
475.100	478.100	481.100	484.100	487.100	490.100	493.200	496.300	499.500	502.600	505.800	509.100	512.300	515.500	518.800	522.100	525.400	528.800	532.200	535.600	539.000	542.500	546.000	549.500	553.000	556.600	560.300	563.900	567.600	571.300	575.000	578.800	582.600	586.400	590.300	594.100	598.100	602.000	606.000	610.000	614.000	618.100	622.200	626.300	630.500	634.700	638.900	643.200	647.600	652.000	656.400	660.900	665.400	669.900	674.500	679.200	683.800	688.500	693.300	698.100	702.900	707.800	712.700	717.600	722.600	727.600	732.700	737.800	743.000	748.100	753.400	758.600	764.000	769.400	774.800	780.300	785.800	791.400	797.000	802.600	808.300	814.100	819.900	825.700	831.600	837.500	843.500	849.500	855.500	861.600	867.700	873.900	880.100	886.300	892.600	899.000	905.300	911.800	918.200	924.800	931.500	938.300	945.100	952.000	958.900	965.900	972.900	980.000	987.200	994.500	1001.700	1009.100	1016.400	1023.900	1031.400	1038.900	1046.500	1054.200	1061.800	1069.600	1077.400	1085.200	1093.100	1101.100	1109.100	1117.100	1125.300	1133.500	1142.000	1150.500	1159.000	1167.600	1176.200	1184.900	1193.700	1202.500	1211.400	1220.400	1229.500	1238.600	1247.800	1257.100	1266.400	1275.800	1285.200	1294.700	1304.200	1313.900	1323.800	1333.700	1343.700	1353.800	1363.900	1374.200	1384.500	1394.900	1405.400	1416.000	1426.700	1437.400	1448.300	1459.200	1470.200	1481.300	1492.500	1503.800	1515.100	1526.600	1538.100	1549.700	1561.400	1573.200	1585.100	1597.000	1609.100	1621.200	1633.400	1645.700	1658.100	1670.600	1683.200	1695.800	1708.600	1721.400	1734.300	1747.300	1760.400	1773.600	1786.800	1800.200	1813.600	1827.200	1840.800	1854.400	1868.200	1882.100	1896.100	1910.100	1924.200	1938.400	1952.700	1967.100	1981.600	1996.100
```


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

A little valuable info here:

Just finally got my car super dialed in. Had really good luck disabling the full load lambda map and using power enrichment instead. My afr Gauge stays rock solid now and returns to idle real quick after pressing the clutch. No more periods of 12:1 afr after pressing the clutch or getting on the gas after decel. 

What I think helped me out is since I'm using a 70mm throttle body I obviously imported the appropriate alpha n and throttle airflow maps. What I didn't do until now was also use the accelerator pedal, optimum torque, and target filling maps. Now my idle returns quickly and no more bouncing. Also used the 70mm idle torque and idle torque with clutch depressed. Man what a difference. Car is so smooth and I've never seen such steady afr.

Now I'm starting to dial in boost as I just hooked up my n75. I have a tial wastegate with a 1 bar spring. Anyone else have their boost duty and boost pid maps nice and dialed in. Trying to stop spiking and hold a Solid 22 psi to start.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

what changes did you make to stop the ecu from requesting 11.XX whenever the clutch is pressed in during deceleration while in gear?

Also are you running with a MAF or MAFLESS?


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## G.Mathias (Nov 1, 2012)

badger5 said:


> lmao
> 
> jeez, I did'nt know that.


You got jokes, eh?


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

G.Mathias said:


> You got jokes, eh?


aye.  :thumbup:


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Cryser said:


> what changes did you make to stop the ecu from requesting 11.XX whenever the clutch is pressed in during deceleration while in gear?
> 
> Also are you running with a MAF or MAFLESS?


Seems to sort itself out with what I said above. Not sure exactly what did it but I'm assuming it was using the proper optimum torque and filling maps. Also I'm running a maf but unplugging it makes no changes


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Has anyone found a way to extend a maestro datalog?

When I run maestro logger and do a datalog it will save up to 977Kb then it will start a new log without headers if the log runs longer then that. I've tried copying and pasting the logs together and saving them as a new file but if I try to open that in the editor I get an error and this crashes Maestro. Any ideas on a way to increase the max capacity of a data log? I know it possible to trace 2 different data logs but I don't believe the data is then averaged it just over writes whats on the new histogram from the newest log.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser said:


> Has anyone found a way to extend a maestro datalog?
> 
> When I run maestro logger and do a datalog it will save up to 977Kb then it will start a new log without headers if the log runs longer then that. I've tried copying and pasting the logs together and saving them as a new file but if I try to open that in the editor I get an error and this crashes Maestro. Any ideas on a way to increase the max capacity of a data log? I know it possible to trace 2 different data logs but I don't believe the data is then averaged it just over writes whats on the new histogram from the newest log.


I use to just copy and paste them all into a single large file and let the tracer do its thing. I guess that is no longer an option. Chris must have made revisions down the road.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

The only thing I can find is that you can slow the speed at which the datalogger intakes data. This is extend the time period of the logs but at the cost of accuracy. It's set stock at like 15ms, which is great and all but very very fast, I'm gonna try and play with that setting in Flash and find a good happy medium that allows for a good 20-30 mins of logging.

Yeah the copy pasting into 1 huge files doesn't work anymore sadly it will crash maestro say something about not being able to read the header. There are so many little bugs that ultimately crash maestro or make it unstable that it's kinda annoying how much you have to "watch your step" when using the program. Like if you try and open a file but cancel out of the open selection you can no longer save or basically do anything. A lot of little bugs Eurodyne needs to shift focus to and get fixed, I might see if starting a thread on the maestro forums gets some attention once I get a list down of some of the major ones.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> What I didn't do until now was also use the accelerator pedal, optimum torque, and target filling maps.


care to elaborate? what exactly did you do with these maps?


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## GetBoosted84 (Apr 1, 2007)

Cryser said:


> Yeah the copy pasting into 1 huge files doesn't work anymore sadly it will crash maestro say something about not being able to read the header. There are so many little bugs that ultimately crash maestro or make it unstable that it's kinda annoying how much you have to "watch your step" when using the program. Like if you try and open a file but cancel out of the open selection you can no longer save or basically do anything. A lot of little bugs Eurodyne needs to shift focus to and get fixed, I might see if starting a thread on the maestro forums gets some attention once I get a list down of some of the major ones.


That's a great idea. That will help get some action on them I would think.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Cryser said:


> Has anyone found a way to extend a maestro datalog?
> 
> When I run maestro logger and do a datalog it will save up to 977Kb then it will start a new log without headers if the log runs longer then that. I've tried copying and pasting the logs together and saving them as a new file but if I try to open that in the editor I get an error and this crashes Maestro. Any ideas on a way to increase the max capacity of a data log? I know it possible to trace 2 different data logs but I don't believe the data is then averaged it just over writes whats on the new histogram from the newest log.


If you leave the histogram & logplayer open you can select a different file from the main Maestro menu and then begin tracing another file. Maybe I'm wrong but I didn't think it overwrote data and still averaged it; I'm pretty sure I looked into that. This is how I'd been combing my long logs, though I often forget which log I'm tracing since it never displays a file name. Usually I'm targeting a specific area though so I'm stopping and starting new logs all the time so I don't have to sift through long excel files looking for the area I'm trying to fine tune.

Totally down with a bug thread on Eurodynes website. THere is a suggestion thread and he did do some things in there but they defiently need to iron some easy things out.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> If you leave the histogram & logplayer open you can select a different file from the main Maestro menu and then begin tracing another file. Maybe I'm wrong but I didn't think it overwrote data and still averaged it; I'm pretty sure I looked into that. This is how I'd been combing my long logs, though I often forget which log I'm tracing since it never displays a file name. Usually I'm targeting a specific area though so I'm stopping and starting new logs all the time so I don't have to sift through long excel files looking for the area I'm trying to fine tune.
> 
> Totally down with a bug thread on Eurodynes website. THere is a suggestion thread and he did do some things in there but they defiently need to iron some easy things out.


Ive been doing that I just wasn't sure if the logs overwrote each other or began averaging from the log before. At most I can see it using the last number in the cell and beginning to average from that. I'm not exactly sure how the averaging works anyway if it keeps an internal average for each cell through the log then your losing a bunch of accuracy by using that method to combine logs. If it just uses the last value in the cell and averages the current value then your not. When I get a chance I have it on my list to see if there is a huge change when you keep the histogram open and start a new log, to be sure on if it's just overwriting or averaging or what.


In regards to my testing today I tried for a good 2 hours to try and get the car to idle with the torque control turned off, couldn't do it. Now I don't have a S4 MAF to use atm. I may grab my old AWP one from my friends garage tomorrow toss that in and see if I can use it since I'm only running 10 PSI on the 71r anyway it should still be with in the range of the sensor. I'm wondering if it's even possible to get the car to idle without a MAF with the torque control off. I did however have good success up to a point using the idle torque table. I found best results around 4.1-4.3 anything past 4.5 did nothing to help better the idle. I'm gonna try to get the AWP MAF hooked in and see if that helps steady the idle while torque control is turned off. 

Basically what was happening is the car would bounce around and the TPS reading would vary quite widely. Again raising idle torque helped to lessen the bouncing but I raise it all the way up to a value of 9 across the board and it never got rid of it. I wondering if a MAF sensor reading is needed without the torque control on to allow the ECU to know what throttle position to set the plate at during idle. I did at one point pull forward in the parking lot I was in and the car seemed to handle that fine, but as I really wanted to try and get the idle sorted out first I didn't go more then a space forward before I stopped. 

If I have a chance to mess with it more tomorrow before work I'll try and report back if I have success with the AWP MAF at all. My next table to adjust will be the Alpha N map. I may adjust the TB/airflow table as well but I'm currently working under the assumption that it is disabled with the torque control turned off, then again Mr. Tapp could have just decided to place that table under torque control for whatever reason and it could still be effecting the ecu's logic with the torque control trigger turned off.


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

Had a company, not gonna name, create basefile for my tt225 becayse there were none available at the time and the closest one made my car run like crap. I've been trying to get a copy of the file but they haven't released it to me yet. It's applied to the car. Is there a way to generate this file based on my ecu? Essentially I want to create a basefile from what is on my ecu at the moment.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Got the AWP MAF back in as a bandaid. Car feels much better and a lot smoother power delievery with the MAF in for sure. Gonna start trying to trace the Alpha-N and TB/airflow MAFs with the MAf in and see what comes of that.

Whats the preferred Method of keeping the car in Open Loop? Seems like this would be a great toggle for Eurodyne to Add to the software.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Cryser said:


> Whats the preferred Method of keeping the car in Open Loop? Seems like this would be a great toggle for Eurodyne to Add to the software.



Leave one of the emission things unplugged? Just guessing


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Leave one of the emission things unplugged? Just guessing


that would just disable adaptation, you still enter into closed loop


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

Anyone care to share there 80mm tb files with 630CC Injectors? I used the sem 1000cc tb angle vs airflow and alpha n maps but it doesn't drive very well and it rev hangs pretty bad. Thanks guys.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

jettaman18t said:


> Anyone care to share there 80mm tb files with 630CC Injectors? I used the sem 1000cc tb angle vs airflow and alpha n maps but it doesn't drive very well and it rev hangs pretty bad. Thanks guys.


The airflow doesn't change because you changed injector size. To be honest I would look into correcting your BVC and IC values, that cleared up most if not all rev hang for me. After that plug in a MAF and trace and then smooth the TB vs airflow and alpha N maps. Those maps are never gonna be plug and play and will need some amount of massaging as every engine flows air differently.


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

Cryser said:


> The airflow doesn't change because you changed injector size. To be honest I would look into correcting your BVC and IC values, that cleared up most if not all rev hang for me. After that plug in a MAF and trace and then smooth the TB vs airflow and alpha N maps. Those maps are never gonna be plug and play and will need some amount of massaging as every engine flows air differently.


Any idea what I should change the values too? Or should I check fuel trims first and go from there?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

jettaman18t said:


> Any idea what I should change the values too? Or should I check fuel trims first and go from there?


You really should start by plugging a MAF in and tracing the values from a nice log that pretty much crosses the whole map. Then do the same for the TB vs airflow map with the same log. Remember to smooth it out and manually make sure things make sense.

Be sure you keep the log in kg/hr when your logging or the trace won't work correctly. That is where I would start.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

jettaman18t said:


> Anyone care to share there 80mm tb files with 630CC Injectors? I used the sem 1000cc tb angle vs airflow and alpha n maps but it doesn't drive very well and it rev hangs pretty bad. Thanks guys.



In your case I would start off with the 80mm tb 1000cc file as a base. It would be easier that way. All you would have to do is run manufacturers BVC and IC values then go in the 630cc base, COPY the injection correction map and paste it into your 80mm 1000cc file. Then you should be good to go assuming you have the correct BVC and IC values (BVC values arn't always a sure thing with the 630's if not flow matched and response under low load/rpm can magnify that problem). That is why some may find they are a bit more difficult to dial in.


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## [email protected] (Oct 16, 2006)

Cryser said:


> You really should start by plugging a MAF in and tracing the values from a nice log that pretty much crosses the whole map. Then do the same for the TB vs airflow map with the same log. Remember to smooth it out and manually make sure things make sense.
> 
> Be sure you keep the log in kg/hr when your logging or the trace won't work correctly. That is where I would start.


When you are tracing after a log to populate the Alpha N and Throttle Angle V Air Flow are you using averages or are you using most recent data and making changes as you run through that block of effected cells? 

I have been trying to take a log as described by Budsdubbin by holding the pedal at 10%, running through 2k-6k, then 15% up and up, however I am not sure if I am using this data to the best of its ability. Would most recent or average work better? 

What would be the best method to apply this data? And this should be done in OPEN loop correct? Also interested in the best way to force open loop.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Dyno results are in! check the thread:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5887587-1.8t-.63-5857-Dyno-Results&p=79752214#post79752214


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> When you are tracing after a log to populate the Alpha N and Throttle Angle V Air Flow are you using averages or are you using most recent data and making changes as you run through that block of effected cells?
> 
> I have been trying to take a log as described by Budsdubbin by holding the pedal at 10%, running through 2k-6k, then 15% up and up, however I am not sure if I am using this data to the best of its ability. Would most recent or average work better?
> 
> What would be the best method to apply this data? And this should be done in OPEN loop correct? Also interested in the best way to force open loop.


As much data as possible, then average. i.e. 10% 2k-6k several times. Then 15%... etc.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

elRey said:


> As much data as possible, then average. i.e. 10% 2k-6k several times. Then 15%... etc.


Yup use average, I've also found its best to populate the TB vs airflow map manually by looking at the alpha N map then filling in the TB map by logic. The alpha N map is how you want the car to act, much like the target filling map. The TB vs airflow map is how smooth the car responds much like the opt torque map.


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Quick question:

Will lowering Decel fuel stop my car from after burning?

I get the odd pop in between shifts every now and again.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> When you are tracing after a log to populate the Alpha N and Throttle Angle V Air Flow are you using averages or are you using most recent data and making changes as you run through that block of effected cells?
> 
> I have been trying to take a log as described by Budsdubbin by holding the pedal at 10%, running through 2k-6k, then 15% up and up, however I am not sure if I am using this data to the best of its ability. Would most recent or average work better?
> 
> What would be the best method to apply this data? And this should be done in OPEN loop correct? Also interested in the best way to force open loop.



Your not going to be able to get an accurate calibration with fuel trims enabled. So you must force open loop so that there is no o2 correction, you must request for Tapp to include open loop delay after warm startup in your file. It used to be in the old files. If you'd like further answers as to how exactly to calibrate these maps PM me.

You won't be able to use tracer values because you'll have no o2 correction.





Rac_337 said:


> Quick question:
> 
> Will lowering Decel fuel stop my car from after burning?
> 
> I get the odd pop in between shifts every now and again.



You probably won't rid this issue. I suggest rerouting released charge back into your inlet pipe. I havn't had a chance to tackle the issue myself because of my setup but I'm sure your answers will be in alpha N.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> Quick question:
> 
> Will lowering Decel fuel stop my car from after burning?
> 
> I get the odd pop in between shifts every now and again.



It only helps a tad, you can't get completely rid of it though Decel fuel, I had good luck with targeting in the opt torque maps so that my timing was following more in line with what I wanted. This burned the mixture more fully and stopped the pops and crackles I got with my k03s set up. Its been helping with my 71r set up too. But I've been focusing on alpha N as suggested by Buds and that seems to relieve it.

This leads me to conclude any afterburn isn't from the decel table but from the mixture not fully being burned. Decel fuel is more for if your actual lambda goes rich after coming off the pedal for a second and causes your 02 correction to get messed up. This is happening on my base map for the 630cc injectors and I am slowly working the Decel table to get rid of it. Note this will not fix the "issue" of the car TARGETING 11.7 after letting off.

The Acceleration and Decel tables only effect actual lambda they do NOT modify the target lambda!


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

So I've been digging around nefmoto for the past few hours making notes and such and came across something rather interesting.

Apparently you can turn off LTFT's by going to block 99 - > basic settings -> and then switching off lambda regulations. Gonna try it in the morning and see how/if it works for the MKIV also reset a bunch of maps back to stock/1.001 because I found that while changing the MAF profile in maestro does load the new MAF profile your flowmeter correction map stays the same. So I reset everything and am gonna try my luck with working with that MAP first.

Also got my learn on about how to properly use the injector flow sheets and properly set BVC(TVUB) values and not sure if I really agree with setting them based on the STFT's but everyone tunes differently so I could be wrong about that, we'll see.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Cryser said:


> When I get a chance I have it on my list to see if there is a huge change when you keep the histogram open and start a new log, to be sure on if it's just overwriting or averaging or what.


When I investigated this it is was taking average cell values across multiple logs and the value is calculated by "going into the cell" or "what % is needed entering that cell". Not a value of what the ECU calculates or is occuring while in that cell current cell--if that makes sense


I do not have the 11.7 request issue when reving the motor in neutral. My Alpha-n is stock below 4k. I did rework the PE map and lowered the PE delay to .1 Is everyone running a different intake manifold/TB combo that has this issue?

Remember kids ALPHA-N and Throttle Angle maps share RPM axis so they must match. I had good success using the ALPHA-N tool to calibrate Y-Axis values for throttle plate.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Cryser said:


> reset a bunch of maps back to stock/1.001



FYI 1.001 is just a rounding error with the map factor being off just a hair. It doesn't really matter as long as you keep the same factor. I'm only bring this up for those that want to try to understand what ME7 is doing. Any time you see 1.001, it really means 1.0. In other words.... 1.001 doesn't mean anything special to ME7. It's just 1.0 with a map factor slightly off due to lack of precision (i.e. 0.0034 vs 0.0033574)


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Cryser said:


> So I've been digging around nefmoto for the past few hours making notes and such and came across something rather interesting.
> 
> Apparently you can turn off LTFT's by going to block 99 - > basic settings -> and then switching off lambda regulations. Gonna try it in the morning and see how/if it works for the MKIV also reset a bunch of maps back to stock/1.001 because I found that while changing the MAF profile in maestro does load the new MAF profile your flowmeter correction map stays the same. So I reset everything and am gonna try my luck with working with that MAP first.
> 
> Also got my learn on about how to properly use the injector flow sheets and properly set BVC(TVUB) values and not sure if I really agree with setting them based on the STFT's but everyone tunes differently so I could be wrong about that, we'll see.


Very good now your on the right track. Glad to see theres an easier way for forcing open loop. Now You may need to edit the other multipliers in the other maps. 1.0001 is not just a number its a multiplier so 1.1=~10%. All multipliers must be 1.0001 not just main and injection tables.


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

SO i couldn't get the block 99 thing to work with maestro, I gotta dig around and find my VCDS cable and see if I can do it that way, otherwise I'm just gonna resort back to the warm fuel delay for closed loop and setting that to the outer limit for when I datalog.

Buds, I see most modification tables to zero, I still have the acceleration fuel and deceleration fuels with values in them but they are significantly lower then the stock maps from Tapp. THe only problem I see is with my tracing they are gonna tune that out in the flowmeter correction table so I'll have to go back through the logs manually and alter those tables if I see problems with increasing load and such then go back and do more tracing.

I'm keen on the idea of using the flowmeter correction map as a fuel map since it uses load and RPM much like the LAMBTS map does but it's all the time. Sadly the rpm axis resolution ends at 160, so for high load adjustments I looks like I'm left with main fuel correction which is fine.


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I do not have the 11.7 request issue when reving the motor in neutral. My Alpha-n is stock below 4k. I did rework the PE map and lowered the PE delay to .1 Is everyone running a different intake manifold/TB combo that has this issue?
> 
> Remember kids ALPHA-N and Throttle Angle maps share RPM axis so they must match. I had good success using the ALPHA-N tool to calibrate Y-Axis values for throttle plate.


I've since revered my alpha-N and Throttle angle to stock and its running better, while I do have a stock TB and intake manifold I have an AEB head, IM spacers/transition gasket from IE and a stroker all which would change airflow hence why I still believe in my case I would need to modify those maps at one point

for the 11.7 issue I only get it if one of the following happen

I decelerate in gear to below ~1400 rpms, anything higher I still read max lean lambda as requested
As I go to get back on the gas while decelerating still in gear, only for a quick second then back to 14.7 or whatever my Power enrichment(LAMFA) map reads
As I push the clutch in while decelerating to get it out of gear and coast down in neutral. This is the biggest problem as it will some time lag getting back to 14.7 while in other cases it will just be for a quick second then back to 14.7


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Hey Cryser. Merely thinking out loud. So you increased your displacement. You are still flowing through the stock throttle body and intake manifold. Now they may not pose a bottleneck in the system at low rpms or not even until full throttle. Airflow increase would be marginal at best. 1.8vs 2.0 (assuming here). That's only a 10% increase in displacement. That means you can fit an extra 10%more air (again I'm simplifying here) . Tweaking airflows may make a difference but I think it would be worthwhile to increase optimum torque and target filling to anticipate the extra torque and power from the increased displacement. I feel this way may ultimately be easier and not as involved. I'm open to feedback. You know me7 better than most. We've had a similar discussion in the past about using different way of achieving similar goals. 

Are you running a MAF? If so I would thinking tweaking the opt torque and target filling will take up the little variance and the maf will do the rest keeping actual airflow and fueling in check.

Sorry its been a long day and that was a bit of a ramble.


----------



## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I am running a MAF, currently the stock AWP until i can get a S4 one just waiting on a paycheck and a quote on how much it's gonna cost me to modify the Mishimoto rad I got(shouldn't be too much just gotta get the 1.25" barb fittings to replace the crappy stock ones)

After trying my hand at tracing the Alpha-N and TB maps and tuning them I believe your right. I have already seen a need to up the target filling a tad so that my boost falls in line with requested at the wastegate pressure I have set currently 8.75 PSI spring rate which equates to 10.5PSI on my gauge at the intake manifold and ~1850mbar at the MAP sensor. Something I thing i have noticed about is the map sensor will read higher then my manual gauge plugged in at the manifold. I can't find a leak so either there is a bottleneck at the TB or there is a slight pressure drop that happens when the IM becomes filled. I'm leaning towards the second as the discrepancy seems to disappear at high boost levels and RPM(as shown by my K03s logs boost would begin to match perfectly with the gauge around 16PSI)

Haven't got a chance to check the block 99 disabling of closed loop with my VCDS cable yet, gotta find that thing somewhere in the scatter parts boxes that are in my garage and my friends garage where I did my BT install. But I had a great idea on the way home today as I cleared my codes to reset fuel trims to do another log. If the block 99 thing doesn't work we can just unplug a resistor to or an actual emissions device to kill adaptation. It's gonna throw some codes but none of them effect drivability nor AFR ratio so that shouldn't be a problem. This will of course kill the ability to do a trace histogram in maestro but if you can read lambda and know how to interpret the information you can easily read through the logs and make the needed adjustments to match up AFRs!

Anyway I got quite a bit of driving to do so I'm gonna try unhooking one of my resistors to kill adaptation and tune like that without the ecu messing with trims. Also as a side note I'm having great success withing the flowmeter correction map as a fuel map to tune the car with. Once I get my mishimoto in and my oil feed line wrapped as well as my Wastegate discharge line wrapped I'm gonna hook the N75 valve up and start turning up the pressure via the Max VE map and slowly tune each of the new pressure rows I have left on the Flowmeter correction and Main fuel trim map.

Take a lot of notes and such about what I'm doing and how it's effecting the car once I get thing sorted I'm gonna try my hand at typing up a DIY for MAF tunes using my notes. But that won't be till after the 25 hours at Thunder hill and finals are over.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

So I plugged my resistor from my N80(evap value) connect and success it killed adaptation so I got a nice clean, un****ed with by the ecu log. So I'm gonna be sticking with that method of "staying in open loop". On a plus side you still get 02 correction values by doing this but they just don't have the ability to adjust anything

Also changing the data log speed under the communications menu in Maestro Flash will allow for you to extend the time a loggs over but at the cost of taking samples less times per millisecond. I logged today at 150ms and got a good 1 hour worth of log time in each file.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

keep us posted on your results Cryser. I always love the stuff you find out just by tinkering with stuff


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Cryser said:


> So I plugged my resistor from my N80(evap value) connect and success it killed adaptation so I got a nice clean, un****ed with by the ecu log. So I'm gonna be sticking with that method of "staying in open loop". On a plus side you still get 02 correction values by doing this but they just don't have the ability to adjust anything
> 
> Also changing the data log speed under the communications menu in Maestro Flash will allow for you to extend the time a loggs over but at the cost of taking samples less times per millisecond. I logged today at 150ms and got a good 1 hour worth of log time in each file.


Good to know that unpluging N80 will still allow the O2 to correct but disable trims! :beer:

I assume you extended the logs by slowing down com speed?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> I assume you extended the logs by slowing down com speed?


Yup you gotta do it every time you load Maestro Flash as it's not a setting that is saved also note I was a very wrong on my guess of the length of the log.

at the faster rate which is 15ms I was getting 5 minutes until the Logger created a new log
with the rate I tried today 150ms I got about 13 minutes to a capped log file.

Note when you change the log speed you will NOT notice it viewing the live data just while it's playing back on the tracer or in Maestro itself

I will also note that even at 150ms the log speed is NOT fast enough to capture what changes you may need to make to maps like acceleration fuel maping but it is good for making changes to say whatever map you chose to do your main fuel trimming on.

Also still having very good success with the flowmeter correction map as a main fueling map.
After the holiday is over I'm planning to get the mishimoto rad modified and in, also going to be taping a boost pipe for N75 control as I don't want to use my intake manifold as a source for my wastegate anymore since it will pass vacuum through the N75 which isn't very advisable.

Acceleration fueling is getting more in line, I'm tuning that map by looking at what types of 02 corrections the ECU is calling for when there is a sudden change in load, although because the corrections are soo slight it's kinda of a bitch to get dialed in.


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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

Rac_337 said:


> Good to know that unpluging N80 will still allow the O2 to correct but disable trims! :beer:
> 
> I assume you extended the logs by slowing down com speed?


So the only way to really know if your o2 corrections are actually "starting from zero" is if you're fuel trims are either off or zero, correct? As in once your car sets a fuel trim your o2 corrections start from that fuel trim and go up and down?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

loudgli said:


> So the only way to really know if your o2 corrections are actually "starting from zero" is if you're fuel trims are either off or zero, correct? As in once your car sets a fuel trim your o2 corrections start from that fuel trim and go up and down?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


The only way to know for SURE is to either erase all your DTCs, even if you have no codes this will reset all adaptation and set the fuel trims to zero.

Or unplug one of the (I think) 3 devices that are required for adaptation, I believe they are the N80(Know for sure that works), SAI(pretty sure on this one) and the N249(not sure on this one)

I currently have all that stuff resistored off with the plugs with resistors in them so the N80 is the easiest one for me I just unplug the resistor when I wanna log, when I'm just wanting to get around and kinda try out and see where my tune is at and how the car is gonna adapt to it, like today, I'm just gonna plug the resistor in.


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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

I'm an FSI car. I need to figure out if i can do this on my car. Because as you say it's almost impossible to know what's going on with constant closed loop and fuel trims at work. I can log and make adjustments till the cows come home and it feels like I'm running around in circles most of the time. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I see, forgive me but as this is the 1.8T forum I work under the basic assumption that we are always talking about 1.8T based platforms 

I was no clue how to achieve these same results with the 2.0T If someone wants to buy me one and set it up with Maestro I would be more then glad to play around with things on that platform as well haha :beer:


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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

No i wouldn't expect you to know that. I follow this thread because many things are similar and there are very few people on maestro on 2.0T's.

Just was trying to make sense of fuel trims. If what you guys are saying is correct then my o2 corrections should be higher when my trims are at zero than when my trim is say -10. My car runs well but have a hard time getting my trims in check even when making adjustments to ic. 

continue on 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

So with my 50 trim blown I am replacing it with a gt 3071. Would I need a new file for the car or should I be good. Staying on same injectors


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

weenerdog3443 said:


> So with my 50 trim blown I am replacing it with a gt 3071. Would I need a new file for the car or should I be good. Staying on same injectors


When did your 50t blow?

You'll be fine on the 630s. I ran my 630s with 3071 for a while, I ended up changing to EV14s to get a better idle though as my 630s never really seemed to idle perfectly.


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

sabbySC said:


> When did your 50t blow?
> 
> You'll be fine on the 630s. I ran my 630s with 3071 for a while, I ended up changing to EV14s to get a better idle though as my 630s never really seemed to idle perfectly.


Its been about a month and half now. Happened a week n half before I lost my job. I had a feeling it was going out was smoking more and more and then finally 27 psi 4th gear and kerpow was like a James bond smoke screen. Was totally worth it tho. I'll have to see how the idle is with the new ones might go to the EV's. Its been so shhitty no car to go cruisi with no job but all shot be cured here soon.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

weenerdog3443 said:


> Its been about a month and half now. Happened a week n half before I lost my job. I had a feeling it was going out was smoking more and more and then finally 27 psi 4th gear and kerpow was like a James bond smoke screen. Was totally worth it tho. I'll have to see how the idle is with the new ones might go to the EV's. Its been so shhitty no car to go cruisi with no job but all shot be cured here soon.


your file may require a tad bit of tweaking, but a whole new file is unnecessary.

630 are fine for a GT3071r as long as you keep it under 22-25PSI 

I'm at ~12 PSI while I finish breaking in the motor and waiting till I have the money for a S4 MAF and I'm only at 66% injector duty cycle with 550cc ev14's @ 4bar


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## ANT THE KNEE (Aug 25, 2000)

Anyone live near/in Long island that wants to give a little walk through with this? Food/beer for your help. Lots of options and settings and i don't feel like messing sh!t up or even worse. I'm not even sure i have the correct base map installed since there isn't a AWW file reference( i know awp is the same), and no turbo size reference either. I kinda feel like a seperated child @ the fair with this software


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

So after about 50 miles of various types of driving(city, backroads, highway) My fuel trims at between -1 - 0 and they zero out quite often. So Using the flowmeter correction map is a viable way to tune a MAF based system. Car drives very smooth and power delivery is nice and linear, will be playing with timing once the weather clears up a bit and I get some more free time.

Also I am using the specified BVC from the injector data sheet for my fuel pressure as well as the correctly calculated IC using the formula provided by bosch.

Anyone using a MAF for their tune I would highly recommend using this map for the base of your fueling needs. Currently I'm keeping the turbo on wastegate pressure 8.5 PSI until I fix a few other things with the car, mainly getting the mishimoto radiator in and finding a S4 MAF(money got a bit tight) but I set the table up using the stock MAF and will do whatever adjustments are needed when the S4 MAF goes in then raise the boost. Anything past the current load axis on the flowmeter map I will be using main fuel correction, then would be anything past 160 load level.

Also worked out a way, in theory, to use the N75 with the top port of the wastegate but as I left my springs and other barbed nipple at my friends house I did the BT install at I haven't tested it yet. But I'm hoping with the set up I'm theorizing about will allow me to use a 5PSI spring and hold upwards of 25PSI, which would be great since that's more inline with the programing of the ecu then using a heavy wastegate spring and losing control below cracking threshold.

Hope everyone had a grand turkey day!


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## Forty-six and 2 (Jan 21, 2007)

This is more of a Maestro 7 compatibility question. I have a 2001 TTq. I know that it works with my current setup, butI will be doing something a little different. I have a built aba bottom end and will be using a 16v head on it... I will be using the TT's sensors on the older motor, so my question is will using the older motor/head combo confuse the management? 

I know this is a 1.8t forum, and I am not looking to debate my engine setup choice, just looking if there is an answer to the Maestro hybrid swap compatibility.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Forty-six and 2 said:


> This is more of a Maestro 7 compatibility question. I have a 2001 TTq. I know that it works with my current setup, butI will be doing something a little different. I have a built aba bottom end and will be using a 16v head on it... I will be using the TT's sensors on the older motor, so my question is will using the older motor/head combo confuse the management?
> 
> I know this is a 1.8t forum, and I am not looking to debate my engine setup choice, just looking if there is an answer to the Maestro hybrid swap compatibility.


Talk to elrey, i believe he posted higher up this page. He runs a 16vt on me7, and could give you some direction on how to do it.

On a side note, im suprised no one thought of disabling adaptions before while tuning. Thats how i used to tune my digi1 before, and then would plug stuff back in after. Worked like a charm, everytime.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> On a side note, im suprised no one thought of disabling adaptions before while tuning. Thats how i used to tune my digi1 before, and then would plug stuff back in after. Worked like a charm, everytime.


Sometimes the most obvious answer are completely overlooked when dealing with seemingly complicated things hehe


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

ANT THE KNEE said:


> Anyone live near/in Long island that wants to give a little walk through with this? Food/beer for your help. Lots of options and settings and i don't feel like messing sh!t up or even worse. I'm not even sure i have the correct base map installed since there isn't a AWW file reference( i know awp is the same), and no turbo size reference either. I kinda feel like a seperated child @ the fair with this software


I'm on LI - in Huntington. PM me, I know enough to get you started but I'm no pro.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Cryser said:


> Also I am using the specified BVC from the injector data sheet for my fuel pressure as well as the correctly calculated IC using the formula provided by bosch.


How different was your result with Bosch IC? I thought Tapp used these calcs, curious to know what difference you came up with. Link or copy/paste of equation? There are different formulas for different fueling setups. Whenever I used the Eurodyne Calculator I always had best results leaning the IC factor out just a bit. Also make sure your min. pulsewidth is set correctly, I think Tapp changed this but his value was way off for my 630cc tune. 



...and to report back on a question I asked a few pages ago regarding my Injection Correction map always wanting more fuel. IDC was pretty high but the problem I believe was the Walboro inline fuel pump. Once up towards 25psi it was not able to keep up. Backed the boost down to 22psi and everything was perfect, fuel trims -0.7% . Got all pysched to give her a dyno run since its the strongest she ever ran and a nut on the turbo loosened causing the gasket the blow out the day before.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

createddeleted said:


> Fuel injector Scaling:
> Editing KRKTE
> This is the standard method, I believe my theoretical calculations to be correct. Further explanation will come.
> 
> ...


From thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5496661-Ongoing-DIY-Tuning-Bosch-ME7.5-for-1.8t

KRKTE = Injector constant

Basically you take the constant 50.2624 * that by the volume of 1 cylinder / your injector flow using Heptane gas


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

I am in desparate need of some 80MM Alpha N and TB Vs Airflow maps. Tapps base maps are terrible. Car rev hangs like crazy and the idle spikes all the way up to 2000 rpms over and over again. I currently am waiting on a silicone hose so I can hook up a 85MM MAF but till then is there anyone that can send me there maps that they have had success with? Thanks


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

try emailing Chris Tapp directly. I checked the base maps and compared the 70mm vs 80mm file and it def looks like the 80mm is too similar to the 70mm file. See if he has an 80mm .bin to send you to import. If not then there are ways you can tune the car for proper airflow.


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

spartiati said:


> try emailing Chris Tapp directly. I checked the base maps and compared the 70mm vs 80mm file and it def looks like the 80mm is too similar to the 70mm file. See if he has an 80mm .bin to send you to import. If not then there are ways you can tune the car for proper airflow.


Tapp doesn't like me to much I don't think. I think the only way I will be able to dial in the tune is by using a MAF.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

jettaman18t said:


> Tapp doesn't like me to much I don't think. I think the only way I will be able to dial in the tune is by using a MAF.


I've been noticing rev is seems to be less about inaccurate ALpha-N/Airflow Maps and more about the seemingly incurable problem of the car going into "overrun" mode which causes it to target .80 Lambda for a while after being above 2500rpm for an extended period of time then returning to idle. From what I can gather this protection feature is meant to cool the intake valves because of the way the car was originally tune. The problem is this is set up for stock injectors... When adding much bigger injectors and proper tuning so that this feature isn't needed all it does is cause excess gas to get dumped into the cylinder and when this gas is ignited it causes the rev hang.

in a round about way its all because of emissions bull**** and harks back to the stock tuning of the car trying to keep it at 14.7 for as long as possible to produce good emissions, this lean of a mixture generates a TON of heat and this sort of overrun protection feature would be required to stop overheating of valves. Now when we tune the cars correctly by requesting much lower AFR during spool up and in boost we effectively remove the need for this feature since we stop the heat from even being created in the first place.

I have it on my increasing long TO-DO list to find out where exactly this feature is stored, if anyone over at nefmoto even knows, and ask Mr. Tapp to unlock the map or variable for us in Maestro. But sadly other things in life are taking away most if not all my free time to figure this **** out atm =( Hoping to get to clearing off the list during Christmas break.

Someone said they somehow got rid of it but they didn't know how or what map did it, I've got it to the point where it's not as pronounced. But it still happens and there isn't much more I can do to tune it out hence my above theory.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Is there somewhere that people can post their working maestro files, list their car's config, and share them out?

Just seems weird for everyone to have to start from scratch.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

i really don't know why so many people seem to have issues with his tunes from what I've seen in this thread. i ran his out of the box tune for several years with no adverse effects and I didn't have maestro to assist me...so, it's either that people don't know how to use the SW as it does take a while to figure it out...or they are having HW issues which they don't want to admit to or aren't aware of.

people shouldn't be starting from scracth, the out of the box tune should run their cars without major problems, I am really surprised to read some of these posts


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

18T_BT said:


> or they are having HW issues which they don't want to admit to or aren't aware of.



This ^^

9 out of 10 of my problems so far have been hardware related. my crank position sensor was loose. I wasn't running a MAF before. MAP sensor died. A few times my 02 sensor died. I was running an inadequate fuel pump and no surge tank- which was required for my boost level and fuel type. My valve stem seals were bad and were coating the 02 sensor- killing it, making it think the mixture was richer than it was also...


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

18T_BT said:


> i really don't know why so many people seem to have issues with his tunes from what I've seen in this thread. i ran his out of the box tune for several years with no adverse effects and I didn't have maestro to assist me...so, it's either that people don't know how to use the SW as it does take a while to figure it out...or they are having HW issues which they don't want to admit to or aren't aware of.
> 
> people shouldn't be starting from scracth, the out of the box tune should run their cars without major problems, I am really surprised to read some of these posts


Most of the discussion with tune issues are people running MAFLESS with a larger throttle body or intake manifold. Those maps werent even publicly available for uploading until a few months ago and defintely could use some refinements from what people report.

Some people are starting from scratch and writing their own tune because of unique setups like bigger displacement, unsupported injectors, fuel pressure, e85 etc.

..but I agree the base tunes I've run are pretty solid, if you have issues its then end user. Although, tunes have changed quite a bit since you got flashed. The base non-VVT file now makes way more torque on my setup than the initial one I bought 3 years ago did.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

When I basically had a 50t bolted onto a more or less stock motor, the base tune ran awesome for me. I even ran it mafless without much issue.

As mentioned, now with a larger TB and intake, and running mafless I find some changes are needed. I would agree that most peoples issues are hardware related.

In my case I find my setup runs very well when I can ensure there are absolutely zero pre O2 leaks, and the only issue I chase is a slight issue at idle. I personally think my idle is actually pretty damn good for mafless, and I'm just being to picky, but I like being picky


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Most of the discussion with tune issues are people running MAFLESS with a larger throttle body or intake manifold. Those maps werent even publicly available for uploading until a few months ago and defintely could use some refinements from what people report.
> 
> Some people are starting from scratch and writing their own tune because of unique setups like bigger displacement, unsupported injectors, fuel pressure, e85 etc.
> 
> ..but I agree the base tunes I've run are pretty solid, if you have issues its then end user. Although, tunes have changed quite a bit since you got flashed. The base non-VVT file now makes way more torque on my setup than the initial one I bought 3 years ago did.



I had his tune on a stock AWP head, stock intake with built bottom end...then I upgraded to R32 TB, custom intake manifold, AEB head and didn't tweak the file at all and it ran smooth, never had any issues, just a small hiccup on decel from time to time. Like Doug said above, I think it's HW issues, because people are usually too lazy to re-clamp and re-check things because they think install once and done. But, vibrations rattle things lose so you have to double check stuff.

Haven't run a MAF in a very long time.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Well you have to understand something, the base tunes have improved GREATLY even over the last year. No one has started from scratch, that would be near impossible. Personally I use a different fueling method that has since been adapted by Tapp in his newer files, the power enrichment map (LAMFA). Also I firmly believe the base maps provided by maestro are not the same as the off the shelf maps offered when you just buy a tune. 

Also something to note is that ability to judge a tune has improved greatly, my car ran fine when the 02 corrections were -10 - (-14) out down the freeway. Without the Maestro logger and just a pure WB02 gauge I would have just as happily assumed everything was A-OK... it wasn't but everything would have read okay, 14.7 at cruise and it felt perfectly fine. So what you constitute as running fine, might in the fact in the background not so fine. 

Personally I think the timing maps provided by Tapp are very very safe, because that is one of the easier and probably first map people feel comfortable changing. Even on crap California 91 octane I've been able to add a good amount of timing to the base 630 map after getting fueling in line.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

For the people that have successful done it how does one go about getting a map unlock for their tune that isn't normally unlocked by Tapp? 

Just E-mail him and give him the map name you want unlocked? 

Mainly looking to have the optimum timing map unlocked for the non VVT file as changing the axis on the opt torque needs to be reflected in that map as well.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Cryser said:


> For the people that have successful done it how does one go about getting a map unlock for their tune that isn't normally unlocked by Tapp?
> 
> Just E-mail him and give him the map name you want unlocked?
> 
> Mainly looking to have the optimum timing map unlocked for the non VVT file as changing the axis on the opt torque needs to be reflected in that map as well.


 Just email him and he updates the software to unlock that map. He already knows the location of that one, but if it's a map he doesn't know the location of he needs a lot more details.


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## ljones125 (Feb 8, 2012)

Hey guys, I'm having difficulty adjusting my actual boost..Im requesting roughly 22 but never exeed 12lbs. I am running the APB K04 85mm hitachi basemap with 440cc injectors (Changed the IC to accommodate) and have altered my target filling, optimum torque, and boost duty with no success..I am absolutely new to tuning and im not sure if im increasing the cells enough. Would anyone be willing to help and look at my maps/logs...anything helps.. 

For some reason during logging I was not able to capture any data for boost duty...appeared as a flat line...


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Cryser said:


> For the people that have successful done it how does one go about getting a map unlock for their tune that isn't normally unlocked by Tapp?
> 
> Just E-mail him and give him the map name you want unlocked?
> 
> Mainly looking to have the optimum timing map unlocked for the non VVT file as changing the axis on the opt torque needs to be reflected in that map as well.


 You can just email him if he is willing to change it; a few others have resorted to external programs. 

OPT TQ does not share axis with Opt. Timing maps where did you see this? Those timing values should be able to be interpolated; I see your point for the sake of fine tuning but your desired timing is always interpolated anyway


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Cryser said:


> Personally I think the timing maps provided by Tapp are very very safe, because that is one of the easier and probably first map people feel comfortable changing. Even on crap California 91 octane I've been able to add a good amount of timing to the base 630 map after getting fueling in line.


 
Yeah you may be right I filled up with 100 octane added about 8 pts of timing ran great. 100 octane ran out filled up with 93 and still wasn't pulling any timing, backed it down though just to be safe since it was over the summer. 

In comparison to other systems I've worked on the timing file does appear aggressive...I don't know if thats a byproduct of the other maps being conservative (dsmlink, hondata) or Bosch having a more advanced and modern engine to work with. If I recall the 2 cars I worked on were requesting maybe 15 degress max....apples to oranges though..


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> You can just email him if he is willing to change it; a few others have resorted to external programs.
> 
> OPT TQ does not share axis with Opt. Timing maps where did you see this? Those timing values should be able to be interpolated; I see your point for the sake of fine tuning but your desired timing is always interpolated anyway


 
I believe it was Nef moto, I read somewhere that KFZWOP and KFMIOP share an axis or maybe their axis much match or else you will get a weird timing curve. 

In any case I fixed the problem I was originally hoping to fix with it today but still want to have it unlocked as I plan to redo the KFMRIL(Target filling) to allow for the pedal to be more of use. On a street car I don't like how the pedal is basically dynamically dead past 50% at the moment. Some of that can be changed in KPED (acceleration pedal) but would like to have more of a mid range with the car as well. 

My idle torque was way to high causing my idle timing to basically bottom out at -6.75 and caused a bunch of surging between 850-1000rpm. Lowered it down a ton and now I got rock steady idle and timing is about 8-10* =)


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Quick question regarding using a maf. I made some changes to my setup so that I could test out using a maf. 

I've got my hands on a b5 s4 maf, bosch part # 078 906 461 B, so this a stock S4 maf. I choose the 2000 S4 maf under flow meter and just flash the file correct? 

I tried this with the base file and it still idled like poop. I'm just going to flash my file and see how it runs after some driving. Can someone point me in the right direction as to how I can verify this maf is working correctly? It's used but came off a working car, when the owner went mafless on his new setup.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Cryser you are incorrect. I thought the same thing a while back but Optimal torque is a table used in the torque influence model. Which is pretty difficult to get calibrated. Target filling is driver requested load.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Cryser you are incorrect. I thought the same thing a while back but Optimal torque is a table used in the torque influence model. Which is pretty difficult to get calibrated. Target filling is driver requested load.


 yeah, every time I try to nail down a process to tune the Optimal torque maps in a tune with multiple other things changed IE bigger MAF, injectors, etc. I will get somewhat close then see an anominally I can't explain or see another map effect the variable I was tuning off in a much more pronounced and sensible way. Then its back to the drawing board :banghead: 

One a side note the non VVT files now have optimal timing tables enable! 

not sure if he keeps up on this thread at all but Thanks Eurodyne!


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## ljones125 (Feb 8, 2012)

Car: 2001.5 Audi S4 APB...I have been running the Eurodyne K04 base tune on my car for months now and after some research I finally began to alter maps and create a new tune. Apparently I went wrong somewhere because after flashing my car didn't want to start...it stumbled a few times but never turned over. I decided to reflash the basetune back onto the ecu and now I have nothing...no stumbles..no ignition of any sort..it just cranks. I need this car to get to an from work and im worried I bricked my ECU. I have tried repeatedly to reflash the basetune but it doesn't seem to be going fully through its flashing process (taking 3-4 minutes versus 6+ which is what it usually took). With my key on, the check engine light is on so can this mean that my ECU is okay? 

**When reviewing the altered tune which I originally tried flashing I noticed I forgot to change my Injector Constant to accommodate my 440cc injectors. It was set at something like .043 and it was suppose to be .075...Could I have damaged my injectors?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

ljones125 said:


> Car: 2001.5 Audi S4 APB...I have been running the Eurodyne K04 base tune on my car for months now and after some research I finally began to alter maps and create a new tune. Apparently I went wrong somewhere because after flashing my car didn't want to start...it stumbled a few times but never turned over. I decided to reflash the basetune back onto the ecu and now I have nothing...no stumbles..no ignition of any sort..it just cranks. I need this car to get to an from work and im worried I bricked my ECU. I have tried repeatedly to reflash the basetune but it doesn't seem to be going fully through its flashing process (taking 3-4 minutes versus 6+ which is what it usually took). With my key on, the check engine light is on so can this mean that my ECU is okay?
> 
> **When reviewing the altered tune which I originally tried flashing I noticed I forgot to change my Injector Constant to accommodate my 440cc injectors. It was set at something like .043 and it was suppose to be .075...Could I have damaged my injectors?


 Read the fault codes and post here.


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## ljones125 (Feb 8, 2012)

sabbySC said:


> Read the fault codes and post here.


 Only fault code eurodyne read was P1602 for power supply low voltage...Which im assuming popped because I disconnected the battery to see if I could reset the system like that.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Did you have a flash fail midway through the flashing process? If so this can brick your ecu and it will need sent back to Eurodyne or maybe some other dealer closer can do it. 

It sounds like you can connect to your ecu and flash it, so I would tend to think it would work. I'm certainly not an expert though. So to the obvious, is your fuel pump working and is everything under the hood connected the way it should be? 

Also is your timing belt still intact? Making an error in your tune won't do what you are describing, and I believe if you brick the ECU you will not be able to flash it or communicate with it.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

When my Ecu bricked I used a EEPROM reader and flashed a stock file to my Ecu using boot mode and eurodyne then sent me a license to reflash. 

I wonder if the problem was ur battery voltage not being sufficient during the flash


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## ljones125 (Feb 8, 2012)

Ruled out the ECU being bricked, you guys were right. As long as I am able to interact with the ECU then it is not bricked. 

The car was running fine the night before, and the first time I tried starting it (since last night) was after I flashed that tune. Everything under the hood is in place...The timing belt is most likely fine since it was running perfectly the night before. 

Im trying to target why my car makes a different sound cranking now then it normally does...Maybe a video is in order so you guys can tell me what you think...I will try and do this tomorrow. 

I have a thread on AZ as well and someone suggested it was flooded...however I had the car on jumper cables hooked to my friends jeep and I cranked the engine intermittently for 15 min with nothing...then I pushed it down the hill and jumped it into 2nd gear and no combustion occurred and the car slowly came to a stop..(yes key was all the way on)... 

Im worried that either the ECU is fried somehow, the fuel pump got fried, or possibly the alternator got fried. I have no logical basis for these assumptions in that I didn't do anything to cause a short....just one of those awful lingering ideas


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

ljones125 said:


> Ruled out the ECU being bricked, you guys were right. As long as I am able to interact with the ECU then it is not bricked.
> 
> The car was running fine the night before, and the first time I tried starting it (since last night) was after I flashed that tune. Everything under the hood is in place...The timing belt is most likely fine since it was running perfectly the night before.
> 
> ...


 First go into the Diagnostic tab turn on ALL diagnostics and reflash. Eurodyne sets several default to OFF which can impede diagnosing. 

2nd that fault code is normal when flashing certain types or elements of files according to TAPP. 
3rd the flashing process will vary depending on what you are changing. If you flash a map that has no changes from the previous tune the ECU will see this, do its crossheck and move on. Thats why you may be seeing a difference in flash times. 

The only advice I could give that wasn't mentioned is to make sure you Camshaft Position Sensor was not disturbed. When they go bad it will often give symptoms like you are experiencing. You can easily test the resistance value across the pins to make sure its functioning properly.


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## ljones125 (Feb 8, 2012)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> First go into the Diagnostic tab turn on ALL diagnostics and reflash. Eurodyne sets several default to OFF which can impede diagnosing.
> 
> 2nd that fault code is normal when flashing certain types or elements of files according to TAPP.
> 3rd the flashing process will vary depending on what you are changing. If you flash a map that has no changes from the previous tune the ECU will see this, do its crossheck and move on. Thats why you may be seeing a difference in flash times.
> ...


 I will try turning on the diagnostics and reflash and see what codes I can find...as for the CPS I drove the car the night before (to and from work) with no issues and no issues in the past. It sat overnight and then I began flashing in the morning. Correct me if im wrong but the CPS is something that usually goes gradually and not overnight...but I may be wrong and will still keep this is mind while diagnosing...as you said it should be easy to tell if its working. 

As of now on AZ, someone still thinks its the ECU and that I need to use Galletto to flash my tune in boot mode...thoughts on this? 

I have my check engine light on with the key on AND I can flash (or at least maestro is telling me it was successful) different tunes on... 

Chances of something fried in the computer? and still able to communicate? Just seems weird.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

ljones125 said:


> Chances of something fried in the computer? and still able to communicate? Just seems weird.


 Do you have access to a compression tester? Can you do us a favour and run a quic compression test on it? Something about the different cranking that you report has me wondering if something mechanical is causing your problems.


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## ljones125 (Feb 8, 2012)

sabbySC said:


> Do you have access to a compression tester? Can you do us a favour and run a quic compression test on it? Something about the different cranking that you report has me wondering if something mechanical is causing your problems.


 
I will try to get my hands on one, but at this time I do not. I was worrying the same thing ....but its just doesn't fit! I will keep you posted on that though.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

i recently decided to try out the new fueling method thats in the vvt files because ive still been running my outdated file but after changing to power enrich method for main fueling my first long term fuel trim adjusts perfectly fine, but for some reason second one doesn't stays at 0.00 everything is resistored and haven't been touched. Worked perfectly fine on my other file. Kinda odd short term o2 corrections work perfectly fine. 

any ideas guys?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

ljones125 said:


> I will try to get my hands on one, but at this time I do not. I was worrying the same thing ....but its just doesn't fit! I will keep you posted on that though.


 If the cam postion is off it can create all sorts of issues. I've seen CPS' failures give hard starts, no starts, off timing combustion. They can totally change the sound and charactersitcs (or prevent it from starting) of the engine if the phasing is off. 

I have never seen a brickd ECU able to communicate but maybe its possible, but I don't think you would be able to complete a flashing process if it were. 

Did you turn on all fault codes and rescan?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, My Jetta was rear ended in October and is finally getting repaired. So I decided I am taking off the Precision 50 Trim .48ar and replace it with a better Turbo. The Precision 5558E-B with Dual Ceramic Ball Bearings, E" compressor cover 3.0" inlet/2.0" outlet and T3 .63ar 4 bolt (2.5") discharge. I figure this will increase the spool up times and also give me more power then that basic 50 trim I had on there. I haven't used Maestro in two months and well feel like I am starting all over with the software. Anyways, Anyone have any idea on how much different the tune will be? I just started to get down the tune with my old turbo and now I have to start over again. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. It would be the 630cc tune or possibly if I have the money an upgrade to the 830cc tune.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

H, 

Good to hear your car is getting repaired! IMO you shouldn't have to change your tune much, it should be close. I recomend using cometic gaskets everywhere this time around as if will help seal everything up. Also throw a clamp on the slip pipe portion of the cts downpipe to help seal that.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

codergfx said:


> i recently decided to try out the new fueling method thats in the vvt files because ive still been running my outdated file but after changing to power enrich method for main fueling my first long term fuel trim adjusts perfectly fine, but for some reason second one *doesn't *stays at 0.00 everything is resistored and haven't been touched. Worked perfectly fine on my other file. Kinda odd short term o2 corrections work perfectly fine.
> 
> any ideas guys?


 Is that a typo? Are you saying Cell #2 in block 032 stays at 0? If its at 0 I'd check your n80 valve resistor. What reading are you getting in cell#1?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I will get those gaskets. Do you know which ones to get for the AWP 1.8T? Also what part if the downpipe is the slip portion? Are you talking about that Up Pipe that connects to the downpipe? 



sabbySC said:


> H,
> 
> Good to hear your car is getting repaired! IMO you shouldn't have to change your tune much, it should be close. I recomend using cometic gaskets everywhere this time around as if will help seal everything up. Also throw a clamp on the slip pipe portion of the cts downpipe to help seal that.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Yes the up-pipe is what I as referring to. You need a T3 exhaust gasket, 2 wastegate gaskets (I 38mm wastegate is the one), and one exhaust gasket, though I'm not exactly sure which one it is (I think it is the GT series). 

Since I have installed them on my setup, I've had no more leaks.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

NJ1.8T said:


> I will get those gaskets. Do you know which ones to get for the AWP 1.8T? Also what part if the downpipe is the slip portion? Are you talking about that Up Pipe that connects to the downpipe?


 you need a t31 2.5" 4bolt exhaust gasket along with the stuff what sabby said :thumbup:


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

A 2.5" exhaust gasket even though its a 3" downpipe? 



Big_Tom said:


> you need a t31 2.5" 4bolt exhaust gasket along with the stuff what sabby said :thumbup:


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm pretty sure Tom is right, I made the mistake myself of getting the GT one, only to find out it was too big, than I had to order the smaller one, which was a killer on shipping.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Alrighty, Found the gaskets at integrated engineering, ordering up the following Cometic Gaskets. 
T31 4 Bolt Discharge Gasket, Cometic T3 Turbo Gasket and 2 Cometic 38mm Wastegate Gaskets 
So I don't get the Cometic GT Series 4 Bolt Gasket! Just the above three with 2 WG ones. 

If thats correct, Thanks Sabby and Tom, always appreciate the help and assistance. 
Hopefully this time around I won't have any issues trying to find leaks since this should cure those issues. 

the only other issue I know I will have is the fueling issue. Guess I will have to either add on the Walbro Pump or just get a stronger internal pump so I get enough fuel and not starve the engine. 



sabbySC said:


> I'm pretty sure Tom is right, I made the mistake myself of getting the GT one, only to find out it was too big, than I had to order the smaller one, which was a killer on shipping.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

For those of you who don't have the map to force open loop.... Leave your evap solenoid circuit open. If you have it resistored simply snip the connection, if your system isn't removed simply unplug the evap solenoid. Worked for me :thumbup:


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

I am curious to know, who is running a pcv setup on thier BT setup? 

I have recently reinstalled mine and found that I can make the base maps idle properly. I suspect the base files were written with pcv in place, thus the elevated values for the alpha n maps at idle. 

Interestingly enough prior to this development I had also found it relatively easy to get a good idle by adjusting the lower values in the alpha n map to add resolution to the map and reduce the expected airflow when not using a pcv setup.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

What elements must be present to be considered a working pcv setup?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

If this is regarding emissions then your system must be sealed. There cannot be a vent to atmosphere. Dependant on how picky the inspector is the system must vent back into the intake to allow for your engine/catalyst to burn up any extra hydrocarbons/combustion byproducts that maybe harmful to the envirnment. That being said it is up to the inspector if it must be stock. I'm not picky but others are cutthroat.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

I recently moved from one jurisdiction where they dont check for emission stuff, to one where road side checks can take place, thus I've had to add a pcv system back into my setup.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Just wanted to pop in and say Optimal timing maps have been added to the non VVT files and as a side bonus the axis on these maps and the opt torque maps are linked. If you change either axis on one map, they other will automatically change!

Currently using the nef moto ME7 wizard spreadsheet to make a more consistent target filling and opt torque mapping for the car to hopefully get back some partial throttle towards the top end. But just wanted to pop in and let ya all know about the cool linked axis feature as I just noticed it


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Cryser said:


> Just wanted to pop in and say Optimal timing maps have been added to the non VVT files and as a side bonus the axis on these maps and the opt torque maps are linked. If you change either axis on one map, they other will automatically change!
> 
> Currently using the nef moto ME7 wizard spreadsheet to make a more consistent target filling and opt torque mapping for the car to hopefully get back some partial throttle towards the top end. But just wanted to pop in and let ya all know about the cool linked axis feature as I just noticed it


Now I'm gonna have to play some more, just when I was starting to drive and forget about it. I do like how Tapp takes peoples feedback and actually makes changes we can use


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

also in case anyone was wondering the max flow of an AWP MAF is 805.6 kg/hr =P Yeah kinda just hit 27PSI after hooking up the N75 to the top port of my wastegate correct. Time to adjust boost duty cycle down a bit =)

Sorry 805.6 isn't the max I just hit 881.8 kg/hr which is 244.4 g/s at 23PSI pretty sure that's the cap though as it was pegged at that from about 5000 on need me a S4 MAF :banghead:

just got 1007 kg/hr of the awp maf, s4 maf in the mail


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I believe it may read that high but the accuracy towards the end range of the sensors reading is not as accurate. Check the b5 forums. I think I saw someone selling a Hitachi and s4 maf for a good price. Care to pm me that optimum torque formula?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Care to pm me that optimum torque formula?



I've just been using the spreedsheet wizard from the nefmoto forums. 

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1371.0

That's a link to the thread with the link to the spreadsheet in it

Does anyone know what other maps share the RPM axis of Target Filling(KFMIRL)? Everytime I try and change that axis to gain more resolution I always end up with a car that seems to start up then either rev uncontrollably or bounce around erratically. It seem totally silly to me that the stock Maestro maps have a 4 RPM row for the RPM, it's just lowering resolution which in my mind is never a good thing. I know the stock maps start at 480rpm so it is a modification that was made when the base map was made, I just can't seem to undo it to gain back that resolution I would really like to add say a 6500rpm row at the end as well as I'm sure others that rev higher then stock would love the ability to extend out the map.

Just a note when you use that spreadsheet you do have to enter every cell in by hand, so it takes a bit to get all the data entered. Also make sure you rpm axis matches up with the one in maestro, as stated above I can't, yet, find a way to correctly change the axis in maestro and have the car run so I just enter in the maestro axis into the spreadsheet and go from there.

Also when using the opt torque table map, I don't use the suggested last row I just keep the values from the row above it. For some reason the spreadsheet lowers the torque values once you go past your rpm axis from KFMIRL(target filling) on the KFMIOP table I think this is because stock that never happens and the formula used breaks down when that happens.

As a primer

KFMRIL = target filling
KFMIOP = Opt torque
LDRXN = max VE
LDRXNZK = max VE under knock
KFZWOP = opt timing (I don't use this calculator I have my own op timing tables and found these not to be very good and the map in the spreadsheet is backwards from what we see in maestro making it harder to translate)
KRKTE = inj constant ( I didn't use this to produce my current constant BUT I did check it and got the same value, YMMV but it seems to work very well)
FKVVS = injector correction table (we cant use this as maestro logger doesn't log the require variables or does something with the data that doesn't allow the spreadsheet to work)


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I believe it may read that high but the accuracy towards the end range of the sensors reading is not as accurate. Check the b5 forums. I think I saw someone selling a Hitachi and s4 maf for a good price. Care to pm me that optimum torque formula?


yeah accuracy on mafs really goes out the window past 4.7 volts I have a S4 MAF in the mail, should be getting here weds. I just need to do the research to see how to repin the connector so it works right I don't think the S4 maf is plug and play, I could be wrong(which would be nice as unpin those connectors kinda sucks without the right set of tools)

Currently I'm using KFLF (main fuel correction) to help out with fueling past the MAF limit with good success but I'm kinda putting a shelf on tuning till the MAF gets here because I'm just gonna have to redo everything anyway with the new MAF. Just getting my target filling where I like the feel of the car in the lower pedal ranges and bidding my time till the new MAf gets here. I'm hoping the S4 maf gives me enough head room until I decide to go with some bigger injectors and a RS4 MAF, although I'm beginning to realize the limitations of having this much power in a FWD on the street, kinda just spinning tires whenever I try to floor it at this point :banghead:


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## 96vrt (Sep 27, 2011)

*Windows 8*

I just bought a new lap top with windows 8 on it and I downloaded Maestro but it gives me an error when I try and open the program. "This application could not be started" Any One else have this problem? What do I need to do? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

96vrt said:


> I just bought a new lap top with windows 8 on it and I downloaded Maestro but it gives me an error when I try and open the program. "This application could not be started" Any One else have this problem? What do I need to do? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!


You need to have .net framework installed. Just a thought


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Cryser said:


> yeah accuracy on mafs really goes out the window past 4.7 volts I have a S4 MAF in the mail, should be getting here weds. I just need to do the research to see how to repin the connector so it works right I don't think the S4 maf is plug and play, I could be wrong(which would be nice as unpin those connectors kinda sucks without the right set of tools)
> 
> Currently I'm using KFLF (main fuel correction) to help out with fueling past the MAF limit with good success but I'm kinda putting a shelf on tuning till the MAF gets here because I'm just gonna have to redo everything anyway with the new MAF. Just getting my target filling where I like the feel of the car in the lower pedal ranges and bidding my time till the new MAf gets here. I'm hoping the S4 maf gives me enough head room until I decide to go with some bigger injectors and a RS4 MAF, although I'm beginning to realize the limitations of having this much power in a FWD on the street, kinda just spinning tires whenever I try to floor it at this point :banghead:


Bosch s4 maf is plug and play. Althoughy the later year s4 uses the hitachi maf which is far superior. Although the hitachi requires minor rewiring which there are plenty of write ups out there on. I run the Bosch 4.2 a8 maf. Probably gonna go to hitachi tho


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

yeah I've been reading about the hatachi MAF, the only thing I got from them is they seem to be a tad more reliable. But I've never had MAF problems like most people seem to have but I do take really good care of it so I decided to go with the bosch because of the drop in plug and plug and not having to rescale anything. If it fails I'll go Hatachi but I believe they have the same range in terms of airflow readings so I don't think I'm limiting myself on that front. If I'm getting to close to maxing the s4 MAF when I upgrade injectors and fueling system again I'm probably just gonna go for the rs4 MAF as I don't really wanna try and fit a 4 inch pipe in there as the V8 one.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I run the V8 MAF which IIRC is 82mm ID. I've tried to use the sensor in a 98mm ID (4" OD) custom housing with no luck. The scaling spreadsheet tool will get the car to idle, but the entire range is off- before boost comes on really rich and in boost is really lean.

I'm not sure if anyone has any luck scaling MAF's ?? but I've been sticking with the built in profiles.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Cryser said:


> yeah I've been reading about the hatachi MAF, the only thing I got from them is they seem to be a tad more reliable. But I've never had MAF problems like most people seem to have but I do take really good care of it so I decided to go with the bosch because of the drop in plug and plug and not having to rescale anything. If it fails I'll go Hatachi but I believe they have the same range in terms of airflow readings so I don't think I'm limiting myself on that front. If I'm getting to close to maxing the s4 MAF when I upgrade injectors and fueling system again I'm probably just gonna go for the rs4 MAF as I don't really wanna try and fit a 4 inch pipe in there as the V8 one.


The v8 maf is actually more like 3.75 inch. And keep in mind the hitachi profile specifies for a 3.5 inch housing


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> I run the V8 MAF which IIRC is 82mm ID. I've tried to use the sensor in a 98mm ID (4" OD) custom housing with no luck. The scaling spreadsheet tool will get the car to idle, but the entire range is off- before boost comes on really rich and in boost is really lean.
> 
> I'm not sure if anyone has any luck scaling MAF's ?? but I've been sticking with the built in profiles.


I have problems with the v8 maf profile. Can't seem to dial in the correction table. Car runs better without the maf and I don't have stock injectors to put in to correct the maf


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> I have problems with the v8 maf profile. Can't seem to dial in the correction table. Car runs better without the maf and I don't have stock injectors to put in to correct the maf


See I still have my stock injectors and they are easy enough to switch in, but what I worry about it a GT3071r hitting boost on the stock injectors. You would never be able to tune the MAF with stock injectors with a BT set up. I know it's the proper way to do it but at the same time it's not feasible since you really need your whole intake/turbo set up to properly tune the MAF too it.

A safe way to do it would be tune your injectors first on the stock MAF then tune the MAF. But this breaks down if you can't use a fully stock intake path. 

Does the intake path past the MAF matter for the flowmeter correction? or is it just the stock airbox?

If so and going on the assumption that the maf correction on the stage 1/2 eurodyne file in indeed stock, I would think the best plan of attack would be to:

Install stock MAF and airbox
Install bigger injectors
tune FKVVS(injector correction) for said injectors
Then swap out the MAF and go to open air filter
tune flowmeter correction.

But that breaks down if the intake pathway AFTER the MAF effects the flowmeter correction because there is no way in hell to get a stock TIP over a GT3071r especially when its on the other side of the car =P

As I still have my stock MAF I can pick up a stock air box cheap enough but if the piping behind the MAF matters then it's a moot point


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Why do you need to tune a MAF with stock injectors?

I'm missing something here...


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> Why do you need to tune a MAF with stock injectors?
> 
> I'm missing something here...


It's generally considered "proper" to tune "1 part at a time" so to speak. Also with a system like ME7.x where so many maps interweave and effect each other. For a proper calibration you need to know what is actually happening, is the fuel off because of injector linearization inconsistency or MAF calibration? You can't tell if you change injectors, MAF, and intake tract all at the same time.

Can you get your car to run great, make great power and get good mileage by changing everything at once then tuning? Sure

Will that style work for 95% of the people working with Maestro? Absolutely

But for those of us that have desire to have a properly calibrated car, in terms with bosch definition of that term, the only true way to do that and to know what maps you need to actually adjust is to only change 1 part at a time.

Now in the real world that is close to impossible. Some things you have to do at the same time you do other things. I'm not gonna rip off my whole BT set and go back to a stock set up just to make sure I am tuning FKVVS(injector constant) correctly for my 550cc injectors, then add my fuel pump, retune etc. etc.

But if it's something as easy and throwing back the stock airbox in for a few weeks so I can tune FKVVS properly then I'm down for it. The benefit to that is after I tune out any fueling inconsistencies in FKVVS, I can then swap the maf and my intake tract and KNOW that any fueling inconsistencies that began to appear now truly only need to be fixed in the KFKHFM(Flowmeter correction) map.

By working with a car that has changed both injectors and MAF/intake tract you will never truly know when either map is spot on and move to the next map. Especially not when your just learning the system.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

That makes sense- I've just never thought of it or read it anywhere else before.

I'm looking forward to see how you get your car running. I ran into so many nightmares with my BT TT on Maestro that I might be giving up on ME7 management in favor of standalone, then again I could have more hardware issues or tuning issues than I know about. I've worked on a lot of smaller framed turbo Maestro files with lots of success that I can't for the life of me mirror on my TT.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Cryser said:


> It's generally considered "proper" to tune "1 part at a time" so to speak. Also with a system like ME7.x where so many maps interweave and effect each other. For a proper calibration you need to know what is actually happening, is the fuel off because of injector linearization inconsistency or MAF calibration? You can't tell if you change injectors, MAF, and intake tract all at the same time.
> 
> Can you get your car to run great, make great power and get good mileage by changing everything at once then tuning? Sure
> 
> ...


U think ur worried about a 3071 hitting boost on stockies lol. I'm running a 3082 hta. It's sketchy but my main problem is with cruising and low low loads and idle. The maf is farthest off at these points. My fueling is real good in boost. I have plenty if Aeb stock injectors as my motor is an Aeb. But I don't have awm injectors to swap in. Either way ill be fine regardless. 

I like how u think. I can get my car to run ok or actually pretty good by just using main fuel correction for everything and its simple. But I want the throttle response of a stock car and being able to go part throttle in boost without either going full or part etc. 

I think what I'm gonna do now is use one of the many fkkvs maps for the Siemens 630s available and see which has best fueling consistency while maf is unplugged then plug the maf in and correct flowmeter. 

My next task is getting my damn n75 to work right with this 1 bar spring on my wastegate. No matter what I seem to do it will always skyrocket boost out of control if I go wot during spool up. If I gradually accelerate I can get it to steady at 22 psi. It's just scary jumping past 30 psi so quick but I love how much Better the car acts part throttle. If I can get it to work I wanna use my n75 all the time then use my ebc to the top wastegate port to increase past its limit


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> U think ur worried about a 3071 hitting boost on stockies lol. I'm running a 3082 hta. It's sketchy but my main problem is with cruising and low low loads and idle. The maf is farthest off at these points. My fueling is real good in boost. I have plenty if Aeb stock injectors as my motor is an Aeb. But I don't have awm injectors to swap in. Either way ill be fine regardless.
> 
> I like how u think. I can get my car to run ok or actually pretty good by just using main fuel correction for everything and its simple. But I want the throttle response of a stock car and being able to go part throttle in boost without either going full or part etc.
> 
> ...


I use the N75 in the top port of the wastegate, you just need to route the long nipple that would normally go to the discharge in the tip to the top of the wastegate and then route the other nipple to the TIP.

I've been doing some work with the N75 on my external wastegate as well, currently have a 1 bar spring in and it works well until about 9-10PSI then it just rockets to full boost, but I don't over shoot.

Your answer lies in boost PID map, this has a LOT of control over not only how boost reacts but your overall max boost.

I currently have no value set over 70 on that map and it allows a good partial throttle for 1-50% of my map movement but still allows me to basically go WOT whenever I want and be rock solid at 22PSI

My clutch is slipping like mad under WOT conditions though atm so I've been just trying to dial in part throttle with current MAF until the S4 gets here and I'll work on that. Then once I get my tax return I'll throw in a FX300 and go for broke, so to speak.

But yeah the Boost PID map I've found has a lot more control over boost, especially stopping spikes then the WGDC map does. I might lower my spring pressure to around 8.5PSI because my duty cycle is around 20% at max throttle request atm.


Also I highly suggest rescaling the X axis of the boost PID map, it is in abosulte pressure so in reality the map provided in maestro isn't being very effectively. The provide X-axis was provided by the OEM to help control boost pressure problems caused by altitude. Since my car is rarely see below 1000mbar I scaled the map over 3-4 rows and added some more column for boost pressures past atmospheric and it worked very well.

I'm going for complete control with the N75 and using the lightest spring possible, I tried a 5PSI spring set up but couldn't get more then 15PSI.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Cryser said:


> I use the N75 in the top port of the wastegate, you just need to route the long nipple that would normally go to the discharge in the tip to the top of the wastegate and then route the other nipple to the TIP.
> 
> I've been doing some work with the N75 on my external wastegate as well, currently have a 1 bar spring in and it works well until about 9-10PSI then it just rockets to full boost, but I don't over shoot.
> 
> ...


Wait how are u hooking your n75 up? When I tried I had the n75 hooked to the side port of the wastegate and the other to the compressor housing like oem so to speak. The nipple for the inlet was left open as I don't have a nipple on the inlet


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I have a line running to the bottom of the wastegate from my Intake manifold, in that line is a T the T goes to the pressure feed of the N75.

The long nipple of the N75 that would normally be the vent is then going to the Top of the wastegate and the nipple that normally goes to the wastegate is vented to my TIP.

You have to recirculate the vent to the TIP somehow or else you'll have a vacuum leak in the system.

I'm going to be moving the pressure feed from my intake manifold to a pressure only source (pre intercooler charge pipe) once my finals are over.

Basically instead of the N75 blocking/venting fully at 100% duty it is now fully allowing boost and vise versa. In this way you can use the N75 with the top of the wastegate instead of just blocking boost from entering the side of the wastegate if you had it set up normally.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

May I ask why you are using the long tip for the waste gate? I had tried this way way back in the day with Revo and the car would just over boost like crazy.

Is it so that the waste gate sees no boost pressure until the n75 is activated?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Cryser said:


> I have a line running to the bottom of the wastegate from my Intake manifold, in that line is a T the T goes to the pressure feed of the N75.
> 
> The long nipple of the N75 that would normally be the vent is then going to the Top of the wastegate and the nipple that normally goes to the wastegate is vented to my TIP.
> 
> ...


This mAy work. Ill have to try. What I really wanna do is have the n75 hooked to the side port of the wastegate. Then use my ebc to raise boost using the top port.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> May I ask why you are using the long tip for the waste gate? I had tried this way way back in the day with Revo and the car would just over boost like crazy.
> 
> Is it so that the waste gate sees no boost pressure until the n75 is activated?


Spartiati:

You have to drastically reduce the WGDC and the boost PID in order to use the N75 like this. You have to set it up like this so that when the N75 is at 100% there is pressure entering into the top of the wastegate. As the duty cycle goes down there is less pressure allowing the wastegate to open easier.

IF you hook it up the way the N75 was meant to be used, as duty cycle when down, the pressure entering the top of the wastegate would go up not allowing the wastegate to open, causing uncontrolled spool.

Tojr1088:

You way could work but I just see that adding unneeded complications by having to make 2 independent devices having to coincide with each other.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

There are many ways to go about tuning so you cannot honestly say one ways more proper then another if you get the same result in the end.... I'm not sure why there would be any difference tuning maf with/without stock injectors. Unless your getting at using already calibrated injectors will aid in calibration faster. I myself do feel for ya about a huge question..... WHats the deal is my injector linear or latency off or is it my maf? Well even consider this if you throw stock injectors in a ported manifold or aftermarket manifold it may change the characteristics of your injector spray, changes which could vary at certain rpm dependent on manifold design. So in all reality it is mostly a trial and error. 

If you have your after market injectors dialed in before maf calibration then you should be fine but 90% of the users on here cannot so I support your method for those users. Another way would be to install your stock maf and calibrate your injectors for low load/idle then add the aftermarket maf.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Cryser said:


> Spartiati:
> 
> You have to drastically reduce the WGDC and the boost PID in order to use the N75 like this. You have to set it up like this so that when the N75 is at 100% there is pressure entering into the top of the wastegate. As the duty cycle goes down there is less pressure allowing the wastegate to open easier.
> 
> ...


I like the added ebc for wanting to run low and high boost settings easily from in the car. Don't wanna run 30 psi all the time


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> There are many ways to go about tuning so you cannot honestly say one ways more proper then another if you get the same result in the end.... I'm not sure why there would be any difference tuning maf with/without stock injectors. Unless your getting at using already calibrated injectors will aid in calibration faster. I myself do feel for ya about a huge question..... WHats the deal is my injector linear or latency off or is it my maf? Well even consider this if you throw stock injectors in a ported manifold or aftermarket manifold it may change the characteristics of your injector spray, changes which could vary at certain rpm dependent on manifold design. So in all reality it is mostly a trial and error.
> 
> If you have your after market injectors dialed in before maf calibration then you should be fine but 90% of the users on here cannot so I support your method for those users. Another way would be to install your stock maf and calibrate your injectors for low load/idle then add the aftermarket maf.


The idea is that if u calibrate ur maf to mask a fueling problem your altering load readings which will interfere with the torque models set in place. This affects timing along with fuel efficiency. All while making the car not feel stock to drive.


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

After reading this thread and several others i came across 3 ways to tune requested AFR:

LAMBTS which is EGT enrichment

LAMFAW which is Driver requested AFR

LAMFAWKR which is Knock recognition based enrichment

But does maestro even have the LAMFAWKR map?

If not,how do you guys tune your requested AFR? LAMBTS i pressume?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> After reading this thread and several others i came across 3 ways to tune requested AFR:
> 
> LAMBTS which is EGT enrichment
> 
> ...


I use driver requested afr and disable lambts by setting the egt threshold to its max


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> I use driver requested afr and disable lambts by setting the egt threshold to its max


but from what i have read,driver requested afr uses requested load instead of actual..wouldnt that mean that if you go wot before turbo spool up,the requested afr is based on high (requested) load,while the actual load is low and thus afr is rich based on requested load?

correct me if im wrong,im just learning.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> The idea is that if u calibrate ur maf to mask a fueling problem your altering load readings which will interfere with the torque models set in place. This affects timing along with fuel efficiency. All while making the car not feel stock to drive.


I understood that.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> but from what i have read,driver requested afr uses requested load instead of actual..wouldnt that mean that if you go wot before turbo spool up,the requested afr is based on high (requested) load,while the actual load is low and thus afr is rich based on requested load?
> 
> correct me if im wrong,im just learning.


LAMFA(power enrichment) always ramps down from the current target lambda it doesn't just instantly drop to what the map is set at, there is also a delay the map begins to effect AFR after you begin to request more torque. If you set up the map right you'll never have the problem your referring too.

I do fueling the same way tojr1088 does, you just have to know how your turbo reacts based on rpm and torque and map the fueling accordingly. 

Budsdubbin:

Once you change the MAF though wouldn't you need to completely rework the flowmeter correction map or can that be transfer over to the new maf if you keep the intake tract the same? I current have most the map in a great place right now with the stock MAF and my injector set up, when my S4 MAF arrives I have gonna try it on the same map anyway in hopes this was true but I had a feeling that I would have to redo that map from scratch since the maf is different.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

cryser said:


> lamfa(power enrichment) always ramps down from the current target lambda it doesn't just instantly drop to what the map is set at, there is also a delay the map begins to effect afr after you begin to request more torque.


tlafa = 0


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Gonzzz said:


> tlafa = 0


Yeah I have to send an e-mail to Tapp and get that unlock on the non VVT files as well. I'm gonna see if he will also make the logger start to log pedal position but I wanna find the variable for that before I request it. Just no time to do much research with finals this week.


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

Cryser said:


> LAMFA(power enrichment) always ramps down from the current target lambda it doesn't just instantly drop to what the map is set at, there is also a delay the map begins to effect AFR after you begin to request more torque. If you set up the map right you'll never have the problem your referring too.
> 
> I do fueling the same way tojr1088 does, you just have to know how your turbo reacts based on rpm and torque and map the fueling accordingly.


ahh,ok,that make sense.

And what about knock based enrichement,what are your thoughts about that? And does maestro has this option?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

We currently don't have access to the map LAMFAWKR would would be needed for knock based enrichment.

I'm sure if you asked for it, provided the address for the axis and such and proved a point on why you wanted to use it Mr. Tapp would be glad to add it.

Personally I wouldn't chose to go that route as a MAIN fueling option. It's a reactive style of fuel which I'm not fond of, hence the reason I moved about from the LAMBTS style of fueling when I first started with maestro even on my stock turbo tune. Which of course lead me down this whole rabbit hole of gathering information and tinkering around to begin with.

My theory is simple, I rather the fuel be based on what I want, rather then a reaction to a condition in the engine. Now LAMBTS fueling is still an okay style of fueling because you can lower the egt thershold to basically be on all the time and the reaction period to activate the map is so low your not gonna harm anything. With the small research I did on knock based enrichment, which is VERY minimal since I advocate LAMFA and LAMBTS and am very happy using and helping other use LAMFA, it seems like a very dangerous way to tune. You basically relying on knock to activate your fuel map, I as a tuner try to avoid causing any knock at all cost especially in the ME7.5 system.

1. It will begin to trigger a whole slew of protection maps that **** with my set timing curve as well as fueling. I don't like that.

2. It's always easier to prevent something from happening then it is to stop it from happening once it happens inside an Internal Combustion Engine, this is very true for knock.

3. What happens when your knock sensor fails? Your kinda screwed.

4. You have to be positive your knock sensor are torqued correctly and your KZWOP maps are dead on or else you are gonna be having problems.

Overall LAMFAWKR as a main fueling table isn't very attractive since we have access to LAMFA and LAMBTS which are much better suited for the job. I'm sure in the future I may try and push to have access to the table put in the files for a more universal/complete tune, but you have to remember even as a protection map more fuel isn't always going to solve your knock issue correctly. I do however see a use for it as say a secondary fueling table.

example: Say your at 4K and you floor it. LAMFA might not be able to react fast enough to the high spool rate at this high of an engine rpm if you have a properly sized turbo. It would be nice to use the map to slightly enrich fuel if knock was sensed because of a lean condition until LAMFA caught up. As the knock stopped because the fueling is now correct the table would taper off naturally and allow LAMFA full control again.

So there are places LAMFAWKR can be used but I see it as a secondary fuel map to be used with LAMFA but not as a main fueling map.

But that's just my opinion, you know after typing that out I might just push to see if I can have that map added for the reason I mentioned above! :laugh: Would be nice to have that type of flexibility driving on the freeway. Also I'm sure some of the frankenturbo/ smaller framed turbo guys would love access to this map I can see it being a great tool for those set ups to aid in overall/street driving.


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

that's a good point..rather preemtive feuling than fueling as a reaction on a situation..,

But would it be possible to unite the three..use lamfa as main fueling,and lambts and LAMFAWKR as a safety to enrichen more if needed(things get too hot,or high CF's)?

And how do you use lambts if your egt model is off(because of aftermarket exhaust/dp and such)?


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

robbyrr said:


> But would it be possible to unite the three..use lamfa as main fueling,and lambts and LAMFAWKR as a safety to enrichen more if needed(things get too hot,or high CF's)?
> 
> And how do you use lambts if your egt model is off(because of aftermarket exhaust/dp and such)?


I do this in my tunes. I use LAMFA for max power AFR and then use KFLBTS as a 'safety net'.
And then you have knock-based enrichment to help you out too.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> But would it be possible to unite the three..use lamfa as main fueling,and lambts and LAMFAWKR as a safety to enrichen more if needed(things get too hot,or high CF's)?


This is my firm believe on how bosch intended the maps to be used in a situation where emissions aren't a care such as racing or performance tuning



robbyrr said:


> And how do you use lambts if your egt model is off(because of aftermarket exhaust/dp and such)?


you can't really which is why most people end up disabling it when using LAMFA as a main fueling table such as myself and tojr1088 =) 

You would have to alter the formula the ecu uses to calculate EGT for the 1.8T which we can't do, if your lucky enough to have an EGT sensor like in a TT(i believe) you can switch the egt strategy to a sensor given value and retain the map I suppose but I have no experience with that was I drive a MKIV jetta with no such sensor =(


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Cryser said:


> This is my firm believe on how bosch intended the maps to be used in a situation where emissions aren't a care such as racing or performance tuning
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I solely like the power enrichment map for fueling just cause you can get the mixture where u want before the power storms on. With my turbo it's ridiculously fast. So I like being able to get the mixture rich before full boost to keep things cool then I lean it out after the torque spike. Then rich again past 6k. This lowered my knock so much and timing is better. 

Using the full load lambda map I had my egt value lowest so it was always on. It works ok and is easier to set up with all the resolution. But I don't like the gradual increase in fueling. I found that it wasn't as quick and direct for how fast my turbo spools. Especially at situations when ur already at 5 k rpm and wanna go wot again. 

Power enrichment always seems to beat the turbo to the punch so to speak.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

tojr1088 said:


> I solely like the power enrichment map for fueling just cause you can get the mixture where u want before the power storms on.


:thumbup::thumbup:



tojr1088 said:


> Power enrichment always seems to beat the turbo to the punch so to speak.


That's because it works based on your pedal not on actual load :thumbup:
You can use this map to tune for power AND economy if you do it properly.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> I solely like the power enrichment map for fueling just cause you can get the mixture where u want before the power storms on. With my turbo it's ridiculously fast. So I like being able to get the mixture rich before full boost to keep things cool then I lean it out after the torque spike. Then rich again past 6k. This lowered my knock so much and timing is better.
> 
> Using the full load lambda map I had my egt value lowest so it was always on. It works ok and is easier to set up with all the resolution. But I don't like the gradual increase in fueling. I found that it wasn't as quick and direct for how fast my turbo spools. Especially at situations when ur already at 5 k rpm and wanna go wot again.
> 
> Power enrichment always seems to beat the turbo to the punch so to speak.


Yeah I always found a delay in the LAMBTS style of fuel tuning which lead me to work with the LAMFA map. I agree I much rather have the fueling start to be rich as it's spooling up, it stop knock before it happens and overall feels more powerful and allows for more timing.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Cryser said:


> Yeah I always found a delay in the LAMBTS style of fuel tuning which lead me to work with the LAMFA map. I agree I much rather have the fueling start to be rich as it's spooling up, it stop knock before it happens and overall feels more powerful and allows for more timing.


Yup


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

after re-reading the thread about knock based enrichment,i think its not that bad.

the way they do it,the first row of CF is a 0 CF row and stands for fueling when no knock,and that becomes the main fueling,and the rest of cf rows is obviously when knock occurs.

Perhaps it's worth the try in conjuction with lamfa and lambts as safety net?

though i must say,if you can get the afr where you want it with lamfa,why bother.

(just thinking out loud)


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

I agree with the why bother? I don't see the point in knock based enrichment. IMO all it would do for us is complicate things. I mean if guys were blowing motors I could see the point, but they aren't. There isn't anything "holding" us back or any "hidden power" to unlock. If our method works on factory & tuned 500HP RS4's I don't see any benefit. Most of the people using knock based enrichment are using narrowband S4's.


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> I agree with the why bother? I don't see the point in knock based enrichment. IMO all it would do for us is complicate things. I mean if guys were blowing motors I could see the point, but they aren't. There isn't anything "holding" us back or any "hidden power" to unlock. If our method works on factory & tuned 500HP RS4's I don't see any benefit. Most of the people using knock based enrichment are using narrowband S4's.


that's true.why change a winning formula..


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

What's everyone's thoughts on krtke. According to my research it is a calculated value that shouldn't change correct? Because with my calculated krtke on 630 Siemens injectors with all correction maps set to 1.0001 my long term trims go high as 10 percent till wot is in check but low loads are off by even more. Even tho my idle trim is good. 

So does this mean that injection correction fkkvs must be raised across the board and at low loads to compensate and get my long term trims in line rather than raise the constant?

In other words shouldn't the calculated constant be correct within a few percent and the rest lie on fkkvs to compensate?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> What's everyone's thoughts on krtke. According to my research it is a calculated value that shouldn't change correct? Because with my calculated krtke on 630 Siemens injectors with all correction maps set to 1.0001 my long term trims go high as 10 percent till wot is in check but low loads are off by even more. Even tho my idle trim is good.
> 
> So does this mean that injection correction fkkvs must be raised across the board and at low loads to compensate and get my long term trims in line rather than raise the constant?
> 
> In other words shouldn't the calculated constant be correct within a few percent and the rest lie on fkkvs to compensate?


I also find that when I dial in fkkvs maf less then plug in the maf it runs way different. So I adjusted flowmeter correction so it runs the same maf or maf less. But with the maf plugged in my idle load is always so much lower and I only read about 2 g/s at idle with an engine load ~20. But maf less the idle load is ~28 and a lot smoother


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Also I find that maf less the car has way more low end power and torque. With the maf plugged in the car seems as if when u go wot from low rpm that something is restricting flow as u accelerate. Almost like the throttle body is opening gradually rather than just wot. Maf less seems way smoother down low and builds boost quicker


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Your alpha-N and air vs throttlebody maps are different, that's why you notice a difference when you unplug the MAF.

With the MAF your getting an actually reading for airflow, MAFLESS you basically telling the car what that reading should be because there is no sensor to get a calculated value. 

If you want more low end torque and such you would want to change your target filling and opt torque maps to provide that type of behavior. A few posts back I posed a spreadsheet that does a very good job or creating those maps for you based on how aggressive you want the tune to be. I tried one at 100% aggressiveness and it would have been great for a track tune but no so much for street driving.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Cryser said:


> Your alpha-N and air vs throttlebody maps are different, that's why you notice a difference when you unplug the MAF.
> 
> With the MAF your getting an actually reading for airflow, MAFLESS you basically telling the car what that reading should be because there is no sensor to get a calculated value.
> 
> If you want more low end torque and such you would want to change your target filling and opt torque maps to provide that type of behavior. A few posts back I posed a spreadsheet that does a very good job or creating those maps for you based on how aggressive you want the tune to be. I tried one at 100% aggressiveness and it would have been great for a track tune but no so much for street driving.


I have a hard time with that spreadsheet. But also my alpha n and throttle airflow are identical for the most part. They both match nicely especially low loads. I don't understand it. And why does my torque maps always pretty much log the same. I mean I don't get timing pull when maf less so shouldn't they be pretty accurate?


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

What changes should be made other than switch timing maps to run C16 race gas? Anything?

should be pretty straight forward no?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

you MIGHT have to lean out the mixture a bit through your correction maps as it is a heavier fuel and has a higher spec. gravity then pump gas. Also I would set some money aside for some new 02 sensors, C16 likes to munch of those quite readily =)


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Cryser said:


> you MIGHT have to lean out the mixture a bit through your correction maps as it is a heavier fuel and has a higher spec. gravity then pump gas. Also I would set some money aside for some new 02 sensors, C16 likes to munch of those quite readily =)


sweet. Thanks


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

this is gonna be short I'm kinda out the door, but we as a community need to find a way to correctly dial in both the alpha-N and airflow vs TB maps.

These maps even in a MAF based tune are used a lot more then we realize and I highly believe they are based on more then just if you have changed the TB and intake manifold.

I flashed a tune where I changed only those 2 maps in the very low regions to try and see if that effected the whole targeting .80 lambda when off throttle at all because of some research I did on the airflow vs tb map. Long story short it completely messed up my idle, not only was the MAF readings all over the place, it began looping and hunting pretty badly, TB angle was looping as well as idle timing and 02 corrections. I tried to raise my idle torque but that didn't seem to help the problem at all. The airflow vs TB map is one of the main controller of the calculated throttle angle. Figuring out this map and dialing it in correctly is key to restoring a full range of pedal motion. This is allow us to make the DBW system act more then a DBC system that so many people are requesting.

anyway food for though, off to go be social and not think about my car for a few hours :wave:

Happy holidays everyone :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I believe they have a lot to do with engine load calculation regardless if its a maf setup. I need a little more time to confirm this though.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Hey everyone, I'm new to maestro and tuning in general. I just installed a Pagparts turbo kit in October and I'm still trying to get it working. I have the file flashed onto my ecu and have the fueling down solid (fuel trims are correcting less than 1% and AFR consistently hits target)

I'm running into a problem with boost in first and second gear. It seems the throttle is closing while I have the accelerator floored and am making ~20psi of boost. It is fine in all other gears but in first and second boost hits 20 and then the throttle goes from 100% open to about 5%. Sometimes it fluctuates between 5% and 30% but it still isn't right. 

I have WAI installed and working so my IATs shouldn't be causing the problem and I'm also not getting any detonation. Also, my traction control is off when I'm taking logs so the brakes shouldn't be interfering with anything (if it even would). I don't really know where else to go for help. I can't get a reply from Arnold and the eurodyne forums are dead so any help would be appreciated a TON. Seriously just tell me what I need to do and I'll do my best to figure it out, I just don't know how exactly to go about resolving this issue which I'm sure is software related. Thanks!


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Cryser said:


> this is gonna be short I'm kinda out the door, but we as a community need to find a way to correctly dial in both the alpha-N and airflow vs TB maps.
> 
> These maps even in a MAF based tune are used a lot more then we realize and I highly believe they are based on more then just if you have changed the TB and intake manifold.
> 
> ...


Cant really speak for a MAF tune here as I still haven't hooked up a MAF, but for my setup ( MAFless, AEB, SEM +80mm) I have left my Alpha N alone and use the map that comes with the 1000CC file. I noticed when I imported this map that my idle was bonkers. It would hunt and it would also bog down when off the throttle due to the .8 requested lambda. I've mitigated this somewhat by taking my lowest value (2.5 TPS % and 1000rpm) and reducing the kg/hr at idle to 11.5 instead of 18 that is entered in the stock map. I now have no rev hang or signs of the engine trying to stall due to the .8 request. Now doing this has caused a lean condition when the engine is hot and warming up at idle, so i bumped my warmup fuel up in the 60 to 90 degree range to help it not be so lean at idle during warmup.

This could be a band aid solution though, so I have to agree with you. A proper method would be of huge use to calibrate these tables properly. How are the nefmoto guys doing it?

Have you emailed Chris and asked what is the proper method?


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> Cant really speak for a MAF tune here as I still haven't hooked up a MAF, but for my setup ( MAFless, AEB, SEM +80mm) I have left my Alpha N alone and use the map that comes with the 1000CC file. I noticed when I imported this map that my idle was bonkers. It would hunt and it would also bog down when off the throttle due to the .8 requested lambda. I've mitigated this somewhat by taking my lowest value (2.5 TPS % and 1000rpm) and reducing the kg/hr at idle to 11.5 instead of 18 that is entered in the stock map. I now have no rev hang or signs of the engine trying to stall due to the .8 request. Now doing this has caused a lean condition when the engine is hot and warming up at idle, so i bumped my warmup fuel up in the 60 to 90 degree range to help it not be so lean at idle during warmup.
> 
> This could be a band aid solution though, so I have to agree with you. A proper method would be of huge use to calibrate these tables properly. How are the nefmoto guys doing it?
> 
> Have you emailed Chris and asked what is the proper method?


I did something similar to this, however I later added my PCV back into the system and had toonce again change the maps. The difference in low TPS alhpa-n air flow can vary greatly from setup to setup. I found with the Alpha N from the base file, and the pcv I ran lean at idle, granted I'm running a custom PCV setup so the sizing isn't the exact same as stock, which is what the base file was likely tuned on.


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## VdubDavid (Aug 20, 2012)

Hey I am a noob so no insults pleez, I really need an answer, 

I can't copy the image for some reason, but if u go to the eurodyne website they have a chart that shows the year of cars and their capabilities, under my year(2007 gti) it's says no under the quick tune section and no under switch maps section, can I still get a custom tune through this and how would it work? Any help is appreciated.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Cryser said:


> this is gonna be short I'm kinda out the door, but we as a community need to find a way to correctly dial in both the alpha-N and airflow vs TB maps.
> 
> These maps even in a MAF based tune are used a lot more then we realize and I highly believe they are based on more then just if you have changed the TB and intake manifold.
> 
> ...


I always kept these the way they were in the basefiles. Of course I used the 70mm ones. Found they work pretty well and modifying them causes drastic changes. I'd rather use the torque model to influence changes. Idk tho I may look into it more. It's only low loads where I have most problems


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Also have a new discovery. So during normal cruising afr values fluctuate very very little on my gauge. Seems normal. So to save gas I changed power enrichment to target 1.01 instead of lambda 1. Nothing changed car still requested 1. 

So I changed my target lambda vs temperature map. 

Now my car holds 15:1 cruising and the afr is 10x steadier. Sometimes it looks like the gauge isn't even moving lol. 

Also idle is steadier and the afr gets to target way faster and it stopped my .8 lambda from happening after getting on the throttle after decel. Idk why this is such a drastic change but I highly recommend it. Idk if maybe it bypasses a lot of maps that are hidden by the car targeting something other than 1 but I'm happy. 

Worth a try. Hope to hear others feedback as well.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> Also have a new discovery. So during normal cruising afr values fluctuate very very little on my gauge. Seems normal. So to save gas I changed power enrichment to target 1.01 instead of lambda 1. Nothing changed car still requested 1.
> 
> So I changed my target lambda vs temperature map.
> 
> ...


I've been using that map for some time. I badgered Chris to find me the map to allow me to change the AFR on light loads and idle. For about a year now I've been running an AFR of 15.7:1. I had done tons of research and it seems that Stoich provides the best AFR to reduce emissions but not the best for overall fuel economy. I can't remember off the top of my head but something like 7-10% of the fuel at Stoich is unnecessary. 

Now before anyone gets worried about running hot because its lean I've kept an eye on my egts through the entire process. Car runs abit cooler actually. The slight bump in fuel economy is nice also. One road trip with 4 adults in the car, a dog and a trunk crammed with stuff got me to 435 miles before that gas light came on. Mostly highway cruising at 65-75mph. I went on to get close to 450 before filling up. Not bad for a 350whp car fully loaded.

What I also did was increase my accel fuel table and richened up my power enrichment tables under load abit more to avoid any lean conditions when transitioning from light load to full throttle.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I've been using that map for some time. I badgered Chris to find me the map to allow me to change the AFR on light loads and idle. For about a year now I've been running an AFR of 15.7:1. I had done tons of research and it seems that Stoich provides the best AFR to reduce emissions but not the best for overall fuel economy. I can't remember off the top of my head but something like 7-10% of the fuel at Stoich is unnecessary.
> 
> Now before anyone gets worried about running hot because its lean I've kept an eye on my egts through the entire process. Car runs abit cooler actually. The slight bump in fuel economy is nice also. One road trip with 4 adults in the car, a dog and a trunk crammed with stuff got me to 435 miles before that gas light came on. Mostly highway cruising at 65-75mph. I went on to get close to 450 before filling up. Not bad for a 350whp car fully loaded.
> 
> What I also did was increase my accel fuel table and richened up my power enrichment tables under load abit more to avoid any lean conditions when transitioning from light load to full throttle.


Glad to hear. I'm gonna lean it out more on light load and idle now. I already have my power enrichment set to 1 in most load areas where it's neccessary


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I've been using that map for some time. I badgered Chris to find me the map to allow me to change the AFR on light loads and idle. For about a year now I've been running an AFR of 15.7:1. I had done tons of research and it seems that Stoich provides the best AFR to reduce emissions but not the best for overall fuel economy. I can't remember off the top of my head but something like 7-10% of the fuel at Stoich is unnecessary.
> 
> Now before anyone gets worried about running hot because its lean I've kept an eye on my egts through the entire process. Car runs abit cooler actually. The slight bump in fuel economy is nice also. One road trip with 4 adults in the car, a dog and a trunk crammed with stuff got me to 435 miles before that gas light came on. Mostly highway cruising at 65-75mph. I went on to get close to 450 before filling up. Not bad for a 350whp car fully loaded.
> 
> What I also did was increase my accel fuel table and richened up my power enrichment tables under load abit more to avoid any lean conditions when transitioning from light load to full throttle.


Also did u notice a way steadier afr like me?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Alright, The car is almost finished getting repaired at the body shop and I just got the Billet Precision PT5558SP-B 4" inlet 2.5" outlet 63ar 4 bolt turbine housing. I had the basic Precision T3 50 Trim with .48ar and I am looking forward to the dual ball bearing PT5558. As far as tuning, what do you think I will need to do with the bigger, stronger and a faster spool turbo? I'm sure I will have to change alot. I have had a few guys on here really help me with files fixing and tweaking them for me. Especially Sabby, Ruben, Budsdubbin and Rac_337. I hope that once I get this installed I will be able to tweak the file and get the quicker response that I am looking for, especially in 1st, 2nd and possibly 3rd gears. 

Thanks Harvey


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> Also have a new discovery. So during normal cruising afr values fluctuate very very little on my gauge. Seems normal. So to save gas I changed power enrichment to target 1.01 instead of lambda 1. Nothing changed car still requested 1.
> 
> So I changed my target lambda vs temperature map.
> 
> ...


good find. what did you change in target vs temp? all the 1.0001 to 1.01?


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

btw Merry Christmas everyone :beer: Beer: :snowcool: :biggrinsanta:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Its actually a little harder to get a good idle at 15.7:1 because of the lower pulse widths required. I am running modified ev14's @900cc. After some flashes I have the idle rock solid. And 20 in Hg with the IE intake and Martindale exhaust cams. Minimum pulse width and idle torque are essential to a good idle.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> good find. what did you change in target vs temp? all the 1.0001 to 1.01?


Eh I went to 1.04 but yea essentially


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> Eh I went to 1.04 but yea essentially


Pshhh 1.07 is where its at. Lol


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I'll be having my maestro set up for sale as well as a part out thread in the classifieds 

Long story short on Christmas eve night I got hit by a hit and run, sent down the freeway offramp and played bumper cars with construction blockers. Insurance can't do anything as I didn't get the plate number and the cops never found the guy who took off. The frame is bent so it would have been totaled anyway. Most likely get some sort of RWD 2 seater(miata/240sx) and keep it low-key/simple and keep on tuning with that platform, the fwd high horsepower stuff on the street is just silly.

If anyone is interested in any .bin files From my tunes (stock turbo or the BT one I was working on) ask away and I'll find a place to upload them. I have a small amount of notes and things I was working on I will organized and post up as well as a fairly decent pedal map bin the worked really well for my BT set up as well as had good success in bring back a more fuller pedal range for spartiati's car as well.

On a side note the few cars I have tuned for the track I have running at 15.5-15.7 while on caution laps and parade laps, both my current race team and the other cars I've tuned like that noticed a big difference in mpg on longer cautions, just make sure your acceleration fuel in a tad richer(not a problem with the eurodyne supplied maps) or if using LAMFA(power enrichment) either r the delay is set to 0 or if you don't have access to the delay setting lower the torque that it leaves your cruise set afr. Also if your running a cat, this could lead to premature cat death from the increased catalytic temperatures as well as increased NOx emissions out the tailpipe, while lower your CO emissions. This is also going to increase the combustion temps, meaning more stress on your cooling system, not much of a problem while moving but in stop and go could cause problems. Also doing this you may find a need, the ability to, advance timing in the range your running at 15.X:1 if you do this be sure to modify opt timing tables if your getting close to them =)


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Damn shame Cryser. Always loved reading your very informative posts.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Well at least do it right then. Put that 1.8t in a miata, i know someone makes a bellhousing to mate a vw pattern to a common us transmissions.

I think the companies name was 'quick' something.


EDIT http:// http://www.jegs.com/i/Quick-Time-BellHousing/698/RM-4082/10002/-1?parentProductId=


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Cryser said:


> I'll be having my maestro set up for sale as well as a part out thread in the classifieds
> 
> Long story short on Christmas eve night I got hit by a hit and run, sent down the freeway offramp and played bumper cars with construction blockers. Insurance can't do anything as I didn't get the plate number and the cops never found the guy who took off. The frame is bent so it would have been totaled anyway. Most likely get some sort of RWD 2 seater(miata/240sx) and keep it low-key/simple and keep on tuning with that platform, the fwd high horsepower stuff on the street is just silly.
> 
> ...


Thats brutal man.  You were a major contributor to this community. sucks the balls. :thumbdown:

If you upload anything feel free to send it my way. interested in your bin's.

:/


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Cryser said:


> I'll be having my maestro set up for sale as well as a part out thread in the classifieds
> 
> Long story short on Christmas eve night I got hit by a hit and run, sent down the freeway offramp and played bumper cars with construction blockers. Insurance can't do anything as I didn't get the plate number and the cops never found the guy who took off. ...


Sorry to here about that, hopefully they find him/her. Your ok, but it sucks about the car. 
Thank you for all the information you have shared so far. 
I am still sitting back and reading / digesting before I start making any feedback in this thread. 

I am getting misfires throughout the range while driving part throttle. A/F is hunting anywhere from 11.3 -15.7 
When I get into boost the car pulls great, no misfires. A/F round 11.7

If anyone is willing to take a look I will upload some logs and my file I am running now.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

$hit man sorry to hear about that. Holidays is always the worst for DUI's.... In my neck of the woods there are check points almost guaranteed off of the major exits and highway entrances.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Sorry to hear about that Cryser, I still have a few of your files you sent me and they helped alot. I really appreciated the help you offered me.


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## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

Question if I buy a maestro power tap cable from some one who has since sold their car how do I go about using it again? Can I buy it then pay for the file or is it only ever for one ecu?

Sent from my SCH-R950 using Tapatalk 2


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

1fast2liter said:


> Question if I buy a maestro power tap cable from some one who has since sold their car how do I go about using it again? Can I buy it then pay for the file or is it only ever for one ecu?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R950 using Tapatalk 2


You need the ecu that flash was installed on and they flash cable, just the cable is useless. The ecu's should be immo defeated so swapping them shouldn't be a problem.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I'll be finding a upload site to put up my last revisions of my stock tune and BT file as well as the accel pedal bin tonight. Once the files are up I encourage people to ask questions if they have any and I'll try to answer them as best as I can as to why I did what I did, also I'll extract some opt torque/target filling bins put those up as some good starting points for those tables based on the spreadsheet from nefmoto. I got a REALLY aggressive one - Track only in my mind, pretty aggressive one that would be great for a weekend car/track rat and what I considered a great street one.


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## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

I got the whole thing. But I need the ecu to then.. damn.. ok thanks

Sent from my SCH-R950 using Tapatalk 2


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

U can use the cable with any Ecu. You just need to pay 499 for a new license.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Cryser, that really sucks. I'm glad to hear you are alright!


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/381420/-s-Maestro-Files-rar.html


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Thanks for the files Cryser!


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

Thanks for the files,help and information!


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

The webpage is gone already!


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> The webpage is gone already!


still works fine here? just have to wait 12 seconds or so(you see it countdown)


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Cryser, Thank you for sharing what you have done. 

:beer::beer::beer:
:beer::beer::beer:


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Cryser, Thanks for sending me the files. I really appreciate it. I'll look over them and see what I can use for my new setup.

Also, does anyone have some tested bin files for the below setup with 630cc injectors

I up graded to the PT5558 Ported S" compressor cover 4.0" inlet/2.5" outlet T3 .63 with 4 bolt (2.5") discharge


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Wheres the best place to put a BOV on the CTS Turbo setup. I have been wondering where I should put one but not sure where the best fit is and where the best performance would be. Any and all help would be great appreciated. If you have pics of your CTS Turbo setup with a BOV that would be great!


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Most just weld a flange onto the hotpipe coming off the comp housing :thumbup:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

If your going through the hastle you may as well out it as close as possible to the throttle body as you can. There's an aluminum pipe you can get that has a provision for a BOV from siliconeintakes.com. Take a look in their bov section. Cut your throttle body pipe and put it inline. Then just run a vacuum source to it and you're done.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> If your going through the hastle you may as well out it as close as possible to the throttle body as you can. There's an aluminum pipe you can get that has a provision for a BOV from siliconeintakes.com. Take a look in their bov section. Cut your throttle body pipe and put it inline. Then just run a vacuum source to it and you're done.


as close to the TB as possiable, I usded the nipple off the top of the TB that is capped in the picture above as my dedicated V vacuum source, although my TB was rotated so the motor was on top, I found to have less and more uniform timing pull with the TB clocked 90*


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

So something like this when I had my DV setup before I went BT with exception to the bigger hose running back to the intake. Just an aluminum pipe with a BOV Connection and then run a short vacuum hose to the nipple above the TB. 














Cryser said:


> as close to the TB as possiable, I usded the nipple off the top of the TB that is capped in the picture above as my dedicated V vacuum source, although my TB was rotated so the motor was on top, I found to have less and more uniform timing pull with the TB clocked 90*


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

.rar?? i dont seem to have anything that can open the file, anyone mind emailing me them?

i am really bumbed to see Cryser leaving the maestro 7 world, he has been a big help.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

carsluTT said:


> .rar?? i dont seem to have anything that can open the file, anyone mind emailing me them?
> 
> i am really bumbed to see Cryser leaving the maestro 7 world, he has been a big help.


I couldn't either, but I thought it was just me as I'm no computer genius.. :laugh:


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

use a free program called winrar to open them, its on cnet.com


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

fixed
edited
sorry
never mind


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*part throttle at low engine speeds*

Running a small FrankenTurbo as I am in the FrankenTT, part throttle modulation is a real challenge. The car would lurch forward when the engine speed was crossing through the mid 2000s. My first attempt at a solution was this:










Basically turning off the N75 so the engine was running on virtual "actuator pressure" excepting the highest load requests. But it didn't work. Right around 2600rpms the car still lunged forward. Perfect for catching your passenger unawares whilst taking a sip of scalding coffee! Not. So after puzzling over it for a while, I decided to take a page from C.Tapp's F21 file and turn off VVT for all but the highest load values. Like so:











This did the trick. So the lurching was owing to the intake cam rolling over into its advanced position, giving the motor a shot of torque despite the accelerator being unchanged. With the VVT map holding the cam in its default position, acceleration at low load is linear with no surprises. It is now somewhat safer to enjoy a beverage in that car. Somewhat.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

You are doing it wrong, Doug. Put that map back to stock. That is the N75 linearization map.

The map you want to edit is the "Boost PID" map or KFLDIMX.
If you look at it, there is an axis that uses hPa. That is the requested boost pressure. Do a conversion from mbar to PSI and then start calibrating that map.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

For anyone who wants to take a look an give advice here is a link to my current tune and logs. 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p3ikmhltte4xx17/acM1IPP22R
Setup is:
CTS 3076 Kit
Mafless 
80MM TB
RMR IM
AEB 
2L stroker
870CC Injectors. -6 Feed and return; 034 with 044. 
26PSI(21psi spring +MBC)


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Running a small FrankenTurbo as I am in the FrankenTT, part throttle modulation is a real challenge. The car would lurch forward when the engine speed was crossing through the mid 2000s. My first attempt at a solution was this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Incorrect, this is not what you did by making the modifications to the table the way you did. The Y-axis of the boost duty table is TPS, not load. Also not TPS and pedal position are different. The boost duty map is to be used to linearize the wastegate, so that it can be used more effectively with the other formulas and such in the ME7.5 system. Basically what you want to do with this table is to make it so that at say 50% TPS reading it holds the same amount of boost throughout the rev range, this makes the calculations that go on behind the scenes in ME7.5 much more predictable and easier to work with. The problem though is with the way the Tapp files are given to us and the way most MAJOR tuning companies do their tunes. The accelerator pedal map is so jacked to make the tune "feel" fast we in reality have a very small dynamic pedal range.

Have you ever noticed how the TPS will go to max reading yet your pedal will only be like 30% of the way down? Yeah that the problem we face, Part of it is the "unthrottled mode" variable, which stock is set at 0.95 and really shouldn't be changed and a lot of it is with the pedal map.

doug, try loading up my pedal map bin, I think you will find that you will gain a lot of your pedal modulation back during part throttle and will see which places to modify next to get back your full pedal range.

I have no experience with the VVT side of things but I can see where that would make a difference.


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## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

Very interesting doug. With those of us who do not have vvt this shouldn't be a problem. Question I have does that vvt make that much of a difference in power?

Really like how much control this gives us for tuning 

Sent from my SCH-R950 using Tapatalk 2


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

1fast2liter said:


> Very interesting doug. With those of us who do not have vvt this shouldn't be a problem. Question I have does that vvt make that much of a difference in power?
> 
> Really like how much control this gives us for tuning
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R950 using Tapatalk 2


Did u even read what cryser just posted?

He hit the nail on the head regarding Doug's problem. I think Doug's way may more or less be a band aid fix perhaps


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

Cryser said:


> Incorrect, this is not what you did by making the modifications to the table the way you did. The Y-axis of the boost duty table is TPS, not load. Also not TPS and pedal position are different. The boost duty map is to be used to linearize the wastegate, so that it can be used more effectively with the other formulas and such in the ME7.5 system. Basically what you want to do with this table is to make it so that at say 50% TPS reading it holds the same amount of boost throughout the rev range, this makes the calculations that go on behind the scenes in ME7.5 much more predictable and easier to work with. The problem though is with the way the Tapp files are given to us and the way most MAJOR tuning companies do their tunes. The accelerator pedal map is so jacked to make the tune "feel" fast we in reality have a very small dynamic pedal range.


That has nothing to do with it. If you tune the boost PID correctly you will not have issues no matter how you "tune" your KFMIRL (which isn't the 'pedal' map BTW. That's KFPED).

I do agree that most people tune KFMIRL incorrectly. I like my pedal to actually work from the 0 - 100% window, not just 0 - 80% with 80 - 100% having no effect.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Mount your BOV closer to the throttle body to keep charge from back tracking through the charge piping.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> I think Doug's way may more or less be a band aid fix perhaps


I'm not going to try and make a case for how I altered the Boost Duty map. But the underlying reasons for my changes are that I simply want the turbo OFF for all occasions other than WOT. And that's because the FrankenTT isn't a daily driver. It's a test bed. But for most other users, modifications to the throttle and target filling maps are a more elegant solution.



Cryser said:


> The accelerator pedal map is so jacked to make the tune "feel" fast we in reality have a very small dynamic pedal range.
> 
> doug, try loading up my pedal map bin, I think you will find that you will gain a lot of your pedal modulation back during part throttle and will see which places to modify next to get back your full pedal range.


spartiati has sent me his pedal map .bin. If that's not doing the trick, where do I download yours?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not going to try and make a case for how I altered the Boost Duty map. But the underlying reasons for my changes are that I simply want the turbo OFF for all occasions other than WOT. And that's because the FrankenTT isn't a daily driver. It's a test bed. But for most other users, modifications to the throttle and target filling maps are a more elegant solution.
> 
> 
> 
> spartiati has sent me his pedal map .bin. If that's not doing the trick, where do I download yours?


It's a combination of the pedal map + LDRXN, specifically how the pedal map ramps down in low rpm while LDRXN ramps up.


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## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

*"torque control" and "No torque model influence under 100% load"*

what are they ?
what those switches do ?
630cc big turbo file
thanks


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I'm probably going to get the Synapse Bov and get it installed on the hard pipe that connects to the TB Hose 









This is where I will probably install it so at times I can check it and just keep an eye on it. I can't put it any closer to the throttle body as there is no room there with my headlights in the way.












Budsdubbin said:


> Mount your BOV closer to the throttle body to keep charge from back tracking through the charge piping.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

elRey said:


> It's a combination of the pedal map + LDRXN, specifically how the pedal map ramps down in low rpm while LDRXN ramps up.



LDRXN is the max spec load map in maestro =), it is good practice to change the "under knock" map as well when this is changed


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I could never get that Synchronic valve to not flutter under lower boost. That was stock turbo and 50 trim. I know there's fanfare about how superior it is, but experience is greater than theory some times. There forums and help desk were not helpful either.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

What would you advise in getting, not looking to spend a fortune on a BOV, just one that works like a company says it works!!!




screwball said:


> I could never get that Synchronic valve to not flutter under lower boost. That was stock turbo and 50 trim. I know there's fanfare about how superior it is, but experience is greater than theory some times. There forums and help desk were not helpful either.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

NJ1.8T said:


> What would you advise in getting, not looking to spend a fortune on a BOV, just one that works like a company says it works!!!


Nothing wrong with the offerings from TiAl. A few of my friends have the 50, for years i might add, with no issues.


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

its been a while since i used maestro 7, i see with the latest update there are some notes about the updated library of base files. after reading the notes i have this question for AWP base files.


AWP base file notes

- blah

- blah

- blah


If no maf is listed, that means the file is loaded with a stock AWP MAF profile. *The Stage 3 files have the code modified in such a way that if the ecu detects the MAF sensor is unplugged, it will revert to "Maffless" mode. *

is the "maffless" mode for the stage 3 files with stock maf profile only or are all stage 3 files setup this way? the wording is confusing me, as it could be interpenetrated either way being listed with the info about the stock awp profile usage. 

lack of base files to start with for the boost manger+ water meth, the choices are.....

-2.0t base v4

-911 turbo a28

-v4 base nov27 2012

id think there would be 2 or 3 base files setup for use with some of the awp maps already setup. i don't have the boost manager installed yet but its on the list for the next time the wrenches come out.  

p.s. anyone have a link to a photo or info about the optional display for the boost manager+? i read about it in the instructions but cant find much info about it really existing. the post on the eurodyne forums is old and lacking much detail. clicky......


----------



## GetBoosted84 (Apr 1, 2007)

screwball said:


> I could never get that Synchronic valve to not flutter under lower boost. That was stock turbo and 50 trim. I know there's fanfare about how superior it is, but experience is greater than theory some times. There forums and help desk were not helpful either.


That's really odd. I have had a Synchronic BOV installed on my car for several years now (ever since I ditched the K04 and upgraded to a GT2860RS) and I never heard any flutter from it. I'd bet it had something to do with the pre-load settings you may have had on it. I left that adjustment alone and have the two back ports on boost only and the bottom port on boost/vacuum IIRC and I really dig it. Never had any compressor surge with this thing like I had before with my HKS SSQV setup. Sucks that you had issues with yours.



Dave926 said:


> Nothing wrong with the offerings from TiAl. A few of my friends have the 50, for years i might add, with no issues.


Tial & Greddy I have also had good experience with as well as Synapse. All three companies get a :thumbup: from me.


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I might just stick to my Forge BOV and place it on the coldside in the Throttle Body hose with the DV Relocation kit that a few companies sell out there. 



GetBoosted84 said:


> That's really odd. I have had a Synchronic BOV installed on my car for several years now (ever since I ditched the K04 and upgraded to a GT2860RS) and I never heard any flutter from it. I'd bet it had something to do with the pre-load settings you may have had on it. I left that adjustment alone and have the two back ports on boost only and the bottom port on boost/vacuum IIRC and I really dig it. Never had any compressor surge with this thing like I had before with my HKS SSQV setup. Sucks that you had issues with yours.
> 
> 
> Tial & Greddy I have also had good experience with as well as Synapse. All three companies get a :thumbup: from me.


----------



## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Can anybody confirm if the stg3 630cc 225TTmaf is the mafless version for OEM intake mani? Ive tried the vvt file for the second time n i dont like it. I just want to try the new non vvt mafless file.

Sent from my 2005 GLI


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

a4e3y5 said:


> Can anybody confirm if the stg3 630cc 225TTmaf is the mafless version for OEM intake mani? Ive tried the vvt file for the second time n i dont like it. I just want to try the new non vvt mafless file.
> 
> Sent from my 2005 GLI


I believe it is yes


----------



## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> I believe it is yes


Txs man! Thats what i thought saw by opening it n looking at it. I just wanted to double ck. Still trying to figure out why vvt work for some people n not for others.

Sent from my 2005 GLI


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

a4e3y5 said:


> Can anybody confirm if the stg3 630cc 225TTmaf is the mafless version for OEM intake mani? Ive tried the vvt file for the second time n i dont like it. I just want to try the new non vvt mafless file.
> 
> Sent from my 2005 GLI


Whats wrong with the vvt enabled file?


----------



## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> Whats wrong with the vvt enabled file?


When u press the gas sometimes theres a hiccup before the car takes off, sometimes in between shifts theres detonation like in subarus, n when downshifting when coming to a stop sign there is backfiring like a honda/mitsubishi plus it revs itself to like 2,000rpm for a second or two then idles perfectly. I tried it when i had the 50 n now with the 5130 n still the same issues. Other people have reported this a while ago. I love cold starts...it doesnt creep up like the non vvt, but besides that...meh. I already have the non vvt file when i first bought maestro....just want to see how the new nonvvt works.

Sent from my 2005 GLI


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

a4e3y5 said:


> When u press the gas sometimes theres a hiccup before the car takes off, sometimes in between shifts theres detonation like in subarus, n when downshifting when coming to a stop sign there is backfiring like a honda/mitsubishi plus it revs itself to like 2,000rpm for a second or two then idles perfectly. I tried it when i had the 50 n now with the 5130 n still the same issues. Other people have reported this a while ago. I love cold starts...it doesnt creep up like the non vvt, but besides that...meh. I already have the non vvt file when i first bought maestro....just want to see how the new nonvvt works.
> 
> Sent from my 2005 GLI


Vvt file should work fine if u don't have hardware issues and u dial it in properly. Wouldn't work perfectly unless ur setup was exact to spec with what Chris tapp used to make the file


----------



## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> Vvt file should work fine if u don't have hardware issues and u dial it in properly. Wouldn't work perfectly unless ur setup was exact to spec with what Chris tapp used to make the file


Hardware issues? Dont think so. I can run my non vvt file which is quite old, I can run my friends file which is a newer version than mine with no issues. I run the vvt file n its not the best one. So I can rule hardware issues out of the equation. Again, Im not the only one with these issues...theres been other people as well. As far as specs, i would like to know what specs r those. There have been other people sayin they preferr non vvt as well. Unless non vvt files come nicely while vvts need to be massaged, which i doubt since many people flash their cars with these n brummmmm they go.

Sent from my 2005 GLI


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

why not export all your .bin files from the old file into the VVT one?


----------



## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> why not export all your .bin files from the old file into the VVT one?


Hi Doug! Yeah, thats what i thought of doing. I just wanted to find out how is it that it works for some n not for other even when the car is running perfectly. I guess i need to stop overthinking n get my hands dirty he he. Lets see how it plays out.

Sent from my 2005 GLI


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I've been there too. I tried one file in the Eurodyne library and the car didn't like it. But it was just over my head to figure out where the issue was. So if you want that VVT capability, just over-write everything in the new file. Somewhere, in one of those .bins, resides your answer.


----------



## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

^^^ :thumbup:

Sent from my 2005 GLI


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Going to put the Walbro Inline fuel pump in the place of the fuel filter on the Jetta since I am leaning out towards the top end. After that I want to run an inline in the engine compartment. The stock filter is made of paper with a filtering of 12 microns. Does anyone have any experience with any performance fuel filters that are smaller that do the job or do it even better? I was thinking of this one from Jegs or something similiar.

JEGS








AEROMOTIVE








REDHORSE


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Aeromotive makes a nice one with -6 orb ports. Combine that with the ie -6 orb to 5/16 barb and you have a nice setup


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Thanks, as I have a 6an fuel rail from BBM already in place on the engine so I was thinking of running the inline right before it.











groggory said:


> Aeromotive makes a nice one with -6 orb ports. Combine that with the ie -6 orb to 5/16 barb and you have a nice setup


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

a4e3y5 said:


> Hardware issues? Dont think so. I can run my non vvt file which is quite old, I can run my friends file which is a newer version than mine with no issues. I run the vvt file n its not the best one. So I can rule hardware issues out of the equation. Again, Im not the only one with these issues...theres been other people as well. As far as specs, i would like to know what specs r those. There have been other people sayin they preferr non vvt as well. Unless non vvt files come nicely while vvts need to be massaged, which i doubt since many people flash their cars with these n brummmmm they go.
> 
> Sent from my 2005 GLI


Both files run fine for me. Adjust the alpha N in the lower air flow portions on a non vvt file, than import that file and the airflow vs throtle angle into the vvt file and you should have a decent running file.

I've played around alot with the vvt file, and I have found that when using a maf, you need to have a pcv system in places to get the file to run, essentially out of the box. With a vta setup you will not have an appropriate out of the box file.


----------



## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

I will give it a try. Im planning on dynoing the car to see how the new turbo performs. I might as well do back to back pulls with both vvt n non vvt files to see what does each do n see if its worth spendong time importing/exporting files.

Sent from my 2005 GLI


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

I am trying to read my ecu, it got about a ¼ of the way and a window popped up that says failed to start communications... check connections and make sure key is on. The key is in the on position, and I cant get it to work. Any ideas????

i already uninstalled it a couple times,switched the sequence from cable in port,launch flash,key on to launch flash,cable key on..

btw just did a wideband swap,vagcom works fine but i do get a 

18058 - powertrain data bus: missing message from instrument cluster
P1650 - 35-00--

maybe related?(immo should be defeated but iv been told,so not 100% sure)


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> I am trying to read my ecu, it got about a ¼ of the way and a window popped up that says failed to start communications... check connections and make sure key is on. The key is in the on position, and I cant get it to work. Any ideas????
> 
> i already uninstalled it a couple times,switched the sequence from cable in port,launch flash,key on to launch flash,cable key on..
> 
> ...


With key on if the cel is lit u should be fine. Try pulling the radio fuse if u have an aftermarket one


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> I am trying to read my ecu, it got about a ¼ of the way and a window popped up that says failed to start communications... check connections and make sure key is on. The key is in the on position, and I cant get it to work. Any ideas????
> 
> i already uninstalled it a couple times,switched the sequence from cable in port,launch flash,key on to launch flash,cable key on..
> 
> ...


And that code ull always have cause wideband ecu use can bus. It won't affect anything


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> With key on if the cel is lit u should be fine. Try pulling the radio fuse if u have an aftermarket one


no cel is lit,just esp,but thats prob from the maf not plugged in.

Going to try the radio fuse,thanks!



tojr1088 said:


> And that code ull always have cause wideband ecu use can bus. It won't affect anything


thanks:thumbup:


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

If the cel isn't lit with the key on then the Ecu is not turned on. Something isn't wired right. I had the same problem before. One of the Ecu pins isn't getting power


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> If the cel isn't lit with the key on then the Ecu is not turned on. Something isn't wired right. I had the same problem before. One of the Ecu pins isn't getting power


your are probably right,maybe that's the culprit..

i tried pulling fuses and change connection speed..nothing helped..

finally tried to start(with 630cc injectors) and it shut off immediately..scanned it,and saw that the immo isn't defeated..hmm,..but chris tapp said it doesnt affect the read so it's not the immo..

So the fault codes were : 
-N249(have to resistor) 
-J299 open circuit(J299 is sai relay that i have deleted,pulled pin out ecu and removed wiring complete) 
-second lambda (which is not plugged in)
-engine start blocked by immobilizer p1570 - 35-00.
-powertrain data bus: missing message from instrument cluster P1650 - 35-00--

So i think you might be right,and that's why the ecu is not connecting..how can i troubleshoot this?could it be related to the J299,sai relay?(dont think so..)

edit: but vagcom works fine and i can hear the throttle body setting itself...isnt that a sign the ecu works?


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> your are probably right,maybe that's the culprit..
> 
> i tried pulling fuses and change connection speed..nothing helped..
> 
> ...


Weird. If the car starts and shuts off then the cel isn't lit cause the cel on can bus cars is controlled thru can bus. My cel lights but I had to add a wire that was missing to the Ecu harness. Should still read tho


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> your are probably right,maybe that's the culprit..
> 
> i tried pulling fuses and change connection speed..nothing helped..
> 
> ...


Idk if the sai wiring would affect it but I believe it's tied to the Ecu through the ECM relay so idk. You may have messed it up if u pulled Ecu pins out


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> Idk if the sai wiring would affect it but I believe it's tied to the Ecu through the ECM relay so idk. You may have messed it up if u pulled Ecu pins out


i'll wire it back in,though i doubt thats the issue..but im running out of options...

tapp said audi tt's are prone to communication problems..any of you got it working with an early audi tt?


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

robbyrr said:


> i'll wire it back in,though i doubt thats the issue..but im running out of options...
> 
> tapp said audi tt's are prone to communication problems..any of you got it working with an early audi tt?


my TT had issues with an AWP harness for some reason. i swapped the stock harness back into the car and added the needed wires the awp ecu and all has been fine since (or so i think ha ha)


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

carsluTT said:


> my TT had issues with an AWP harness for some reason. i swapped the stock harness back into the car and added the needed wires the awp ecu and all has been fine since (or so i think ha ha)


What kind of issues did you have?..i chopped the stock harness,cause i needed the T10i plug and several others..haha..no going back(unless i rrrealy have too)


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

ecu communication issues. couldn't get maestro 7 to work at all till i went back to the stock harness. not sure why as the pin outs seemed to be the same but something wasn't right.


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

hmm..but everything else in the car works fine..i think it has something to do with the k-line..

it goed from ecu pin 43 to cluster and then to the obd2 port..maybe if i run it straight to the obd port it wont get any interference...a good clean connection.

.last effort before switching to (buying)old loom.


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> hmm..but everything else in the car works fine..i think it has something to do with the k-line..
> 
> it goed from ecu pin 43 to cluster and then to the obd2 port..maybe if i run it straight to the obd port it wont get any interference...a good clean connection.
> 
> .last effort before switching to (buying)old loom.


No. The cluster and Ecu should run separately. However they all meet and share the same wire in the obd port. I don't believe this is your issue. What exactly is your car. Tt? With what harness again?


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> No. The cluster and Ecu should run separately. However they all meet and share the same wire in the obd port. I don't believe this is your issue. What exactly is your car. Tt? With what harness again?


I have a 99 TT originaly with ajq ecu/loom but now with AUQ loom and ecu( 06A 906 032 HS)

the wiring documentation shows pin 43 going to T10x/1(white connector in plenum chamber(raintray) and from there to J218- instrument cluster module...(AUQ wiring before T10x plu,because of the auq loom and AJQ wiring after the T10x plug)

i didnt see any wiring going to obd plug in the documentation so i assumed it goes to obd after the J218. 

if it runs to the cluster first,i can imagine it interfering with the signal in some way.


----------



## rockersteady (Apr 25, 2011)

Problem possibly is the cluster interfering, I resolved a similar problem running European AEB/ AJL engines.
Do you have L-Line still fitted? (possibly 19 on Ecu)

Cut the l-line (19) at ecu and the OBD2 port (7) . run a new wire from ecu (19) to OBD2 port (7) directly, Then put a switch in so that (7) l line can be reconnected to original wire from obd2 port to the cluster for when you want to comm with cluster ( reset service intervals and the like)

early European ME5/ME7 have this problem when trying to run maestro 7
PM me your email and I can send you a Diagram


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

no i have no pin 19,i have a K-line through pin 43,but it does go to the cluster first before going to the OBD port..

I removed the cluster fuse and the OBD stopped working(vagcom didnt worked) so that confrirms it goes to the cluster first.

I think im going to do exactly what you said,a direct line from 43 to obd,with a switch for when i need it to go to the cluster.

I think my TT differs from the rest because it is one of the first(early 99)..Maybe thats why the k-line is going to the cluster first and maybe the later models run direct to OBD(or through CAN?)?

Anyway,there's still hope


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> no i have no pin 19,i have a K-line through pin 43,but it does go to the cluster first before going to the OBD port..
> 
> I removed the cluster fuse and the OBD stopped working(vagcom didnt worked) so that confrirms it goes to the cluster first.
> 
> ...


Did u ever try starting the read and turning the ignition on at the exact same time. This may let the read start using a different protocol. If vagcom works I don't see why it won't read


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> Did u ever try starting the read and turning the ignition on at the exact same time. This may let the read start using a different protocol. If vagcom works I don't see why it won't read


yes,that's the only time i get the software to connect through kwp2000 but immediately after it failed to connect again because he doesn't recognize the ecu..i then get the option to pick an ecu type from a drop-down list.
But after filling in me7 it still failes to connect..

If the direct k-line thing doesnt work,i think i have to send the cable back for testing,with the ecu....

first have to try all the options on my end.


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> yes,that's the only time i get the software to connect through kwp2000 but immediately after it failed to connect again because he doesn't recognize the ecu..i then get the option to pick an ecu type from a drop-down list.
> But after filling in me7 it still failes to connect..
> 
> If the direct k-line thing doesnt work,i think i have to send the cable back for testing,with the ecu....
> ...


If u have someone with a bench flash setup u can read that way also using the tapp cable. I did it before


----------



## rockersteady (Apr 25, 2011)

*Flashing / reading early European ECUs*



robbyrr said:


> tapp said audi tt's are prone to communication problems..any of you got it working with an early audi tt?


Try medium speed, with a F23 customer of mine on a BAM engined tt225 yes, needed to flash on Medium speed only. Also could not get it to read. But as I knew the ecu was compatible I just went ahead and flashed it. When flashing the first file/lic it wanted to the ecu to be selected from the drop down list , (ME7 I believe I selected) but after 1st flash never looked back, but would only flash on Medium speed.

When flashing, Select file you want to load, wait until it says Trying CAN UDS and *then* turn ignition on

AMK S3 no problems with flashing or reading. Except It would only restart when flashed with a nVVT file, VVT files it would not start - but that could be because of cam map not being enabled. I never got an op to go back and figure out why it wouldnt start, I just had time to get it dialled in nicely as a stage 1 nVVT and l then left it alone


----------



## frakay100 (May 18, 2011)

^^^^ That - I have a BAM ECU 2002 TT and have to flash on medium speed. It also does not recognise the ECU and works with 1024k ME7 no problem


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

rockersteady said:


> Try medium speed, with a F23 customer of mine on a BAM engined tt225 yes, needed to flash on Medium speed only. Also could not get it to read. But as I knew the ecu was compatible I just went ahead and flashed it. When flashing the first file/lic it wanted to the ecu to be selected from the drop down list , (ME7 I believe I selected) but after 1st flash never looked back, but would only flash on Medium speed.
> 
> When flashing, Select file you want to load, wait until it says Trying CAN UDS and *then* turn ignition on
> 
> AMK S3 no problems with flashing or reading. Except It would only restart when flashed with a nVVT file, VVT files it would not start - but that could be because of cam map not being enabled. I never got an op to go back and figure out why it wouldnt start, I just had time to get it dialled in nicely as a stage 1 nVVT and l then left it alone


You mean i can flash it without sending the read file first?

i thought it was required to send your file first to eurodyne,and after that you can pick a base file and flash?

I did try all connection speeds,im just waiting now for the immo defeat and fully charged battery and then im going to try the direct k-line and read and after that the direct flash without read.

We'll get this thing working:banghead:


----------



## rockersteady (Apr 25, 2011)

I always *try* to send Chris a read before flashing, He'll let you know if its compatible and what library files are available for that ecu. Some ecus have different boot loader (firmware?) and cant be flashed with the library files. Hes very familiar with the North American ecus but not so with the Non North American ones, Thats why he likes to see a read first, to prevent ecu lock ups. You could try the flash first using the credits in your cable, if it does lock up youll have to send it to him to unlock it and get your credits back, 

But some ecu part numbers are known to him so if you cant get a read then Id just send him your part number and he should be able to advise you.


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

ah,ok..that makes sense.

I already send him my ecu #(06A 906 032 HS) prior ordering maestro..when he said all was good,i purchased..so ecu should be compatible..thats why i think it should be something on my end,or the cable perhaps.

tommorow ill try the direct k-line.


----------



## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> i'll wire it back in,though i doubt thats the issue..but im running out of options...
> 
> tapp said audi tt's are prone to communication problems..any of you got it working with an early audi tt?


I had no issues wide my wide and conversion "2001" TT Quattro

Immo deafeat I had to do in the flash software. With a key he sent me


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

pff,direct line gave the same results..cant connect..im going to send it to tapp and see if he gets a connection..it has to be the cable,or the ecu..he said it was a compatible one,but maybe it is somehow corrupted..

thanks for helping anyway:thumbup:


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> pff,direct line gave the same results..cant connect..im going to send it to tapp and see if he gets a connection..it has to be the cable,or the ecu..he said it was a compatible one,but maybe it is somehow corrupted..
> 
> thanks for helping anyway:thumbup:


Before sending it out why not just try to flash a file without reading. If it messes up u have to send it anyways


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

forgot to mention,i did try to flash..same thing..no communication

but i'm building a bench setup now,and i'll try to bench read..

if that works,it has to be something with the wiring,or atleast on my end..

if it doesn't,it's ecu or cable..


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> forgot to mention,i did try to flash..same thing..no communication
> 
> but i'm building a bench setup now,and i'll try to bench read..
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good start


----------



## ColoradoMkV (Jan 4, 2012)

We need one of these for the me9 ecu!


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

ColoradoMkV said:


> We need one of these for the me9 ecu!


get on it then?


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Looking for a little help with my new turbo setup. I had a Precision 50 Trim .48ar journal bearing 3" & 2" with 630 injectors. Just upgraded to the Precision HP5558 with .63ar Dual BB 4" & 2.5"
Just wanted to ask if anyone has a proven Maestro file they can share with me just so I can run it while I break the Turbo in. Would rather have a nice proven file instead of just the basic 630Tune from Maestro.
Thanks and Appreciate it
Harvey [email protected]


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## ColoradoMkV (Jan 4, 2012)

Rac_337 said:


> get on it then?


I may just have to do that. Plus I wanted to get notifications so I could follow this thread.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Anyone try tuning with LTFT's disabled?

I unplugged my N80 and reset trims and everything is running way lean. Might be the best way to tune and get maps sorted out before enabling trims? noticed a post from Cryser about disabling N80 and tuning...cant find the thread tho.

Will post back on my findings.


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## ColoradoMkV (Jan 4, 2012)

Does anyone have any issues with high altitude cold starts? My and my buddy both have maestro base maps and as soon as we reflashed our cold starts became pretty rough. We're at 4600ft


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Rac_337 said:


> Anyone try tuning with LTFT's disabled?
> 
> I unplugged my N80 and reset trims and everything is running way lean. Might be the best way to tune and get maps sorted out before enabling trims? noticed a post from Cryser about disabling N80 and tuning...cant find the thread tho.
> 
> Will post back on my findings.


I always tune with trims disabled. I unplug my n80 as well to do so


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

tojr1088 said:


> I always tune with trims disabled. I unplug my n80 as well to do so


lol wow i feel dumb. should have been doing this all along.

Im dead in the water though. My MAF isn't working and I cant recalibrate my Alpha N and TB maps now. For some reason the ECU is not receiving the signal from the MAF...All wiring is good too and I see voltage on the input to the ECU, just no value (reads 0) :\


----------



## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Is anyone else having continuous issues with misfires? 
New coil pack harness new 2.0t coils. 
BKR7e's replaced 3 times now. 
Started at .035, down to .026

3076 @ 26 psi. 

Seems to be at part throttle and coming out of boost. 
I posted logs and a link to the tune a few pages back.


----------



## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

I have a question about immobilizer defeat. If I do a wb swap with a new ecu will I be able to defeat immobilizer with ot?

Sent from my SCH-R950 using Tapatalk 2


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> I always tune with trims disabled. I unplug my n80 as well to do so


I've actually tried to disable my fuel trims by disconnecting stuff. I run no resistors and no rear 02 sensor with everything deleted and my short and long term fuel trims still adapt and quickly too.

*I read awhile back, but lost the page that there was a vagcom method to disable them. Anyone know it?*


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

tojr1088 said:


> I always tune with trims disabled. I unplug my n80 as well to do so


Keep in mind i dont have maestro, but i have done some tuning in the past.

I mentioned it a few pages back, as when i used to burn my own software for digi 1 it was the only way to get any form of consistent fueling because trims would always kick in.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

tojr1088 said:


> I always tune with trims disabled. I unplug my n80 as well to do so


 Do you do this alot? Have you ever seen the car trim while this is removed? I have seen 1 or 2 posts online from people who still claim to occasionaly get intermittent fuel trims with the n80 removed. I'm not convinced removing the n80 fully disables fuel trims but possibly only under certain (most) conditions. 

Anyone have feedback?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Incase not everyone saw: 


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...l-Eurodyne-Maestro-Tuning-Handbook&p=80423497 


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give feedback good or bad. 
I need to know what you guys agree and disagree with, I know for a fact some things are not 100% correct. I hoping we can pool together all of our knowledge into a quick referance guide. With the complexity of ME7 and my old age I'm tired of looking stuff up. Hopefully others find this useful as well.


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

excellent work, i just got my boost+ water meth. i plan to take my time and hook up every feature not just the minimal stuff like i have been finding is the normal level of install info posted around the web. from what im seeing its a great tool and is going to work really well with all maestro 7 can offer. a hand book like your working on will up the value of maestro 7x a million! :beer:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Just ordered Maestro last night from Pag Parts. My lack of patience is kicking in now, thank god though ups quotes one day for shipping. I love tinkering with **** so this should keep me occupied for some time. 

Quick question for any or all the users here in regards to the flashing process. Do I really need a battery charger hooked up everytime I re-flash the car?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Just ordered Maestro last night from Pag Parts. My lack of patience is kicking in now, thank god though ups quotes one day for shipping. I love tinkering with **** so this should keep me occupied for some time.
> 
> Quick question for any or all the users here in regards to the flashing process. Do I really need a battery charger hooked up everytime I re-flash the car?


 No. I never use a charger


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I've bricked an ECU when flashing a car on a near-dead battery. It's prudent to firstly start the car and test the cranking power of the battery.


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I've bricked an ECU when flashing a car on a near-dead battery. It's prudent to firstly start the car and test the cranking power of the battery.


 or for the few lucky ones, have a volt meter in the car.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=3027.0title=


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Not sure if im missing something here, but does the stage 1 base tune require a 4 bar? Driving around my corrections are over 5%, and at wot its closer to 20.

Block 32 is pretty stable, give or take 3%


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Not sure if im missing something here, but does the stage 1 base tune require a 4 bar? Driving around my corrections are over 5%, and at wot its closer to 20.
> 
> Block 32 is pretty stable, give or take 3%


I think only Aeb require 4 bar but not sure.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

my buddies GLI AWP required 4 bar fpr.... I was suprised but thats the way it was written.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I figured the stage 2 was the only one that required it, as it says so right in the description. But then once I got around to logging, and say the fuel trims going all out of whack the way they were I figured something was not right.

The car will eventually hit target lambda, but takes longer than I like. I went through this entire thread and really picked off some good info, and minus my fuel trim issue I feel like I have a good grasp on the torque modeling.

Its also knocking like a nun on a monk's door despite running the timing to below 10*, but thats probably because I need to put some 7's in. 

On a side note, did something funny happen with bkr7e's? I just got a set today from dynotech (local shop) and they gave me 13/16ths plugs instead of 5/8th's


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Got the wrong plugs, thats what I get for going to a Japanese oriented shop. Got the right plugs, figured ok good to go.

Nope. Not a ****ing chance. Car is still knocking like a mother****er. 3* requested, and another 6* being pulled from cylinder 2 on high load/high rpm.

02 correction is still retarded as well. Around town, cruising light accel etc its reasonable +/- 3%. High load/rpm its close to 20%. Pirated Cryser's maps....nope still doing it. Email Arnold, tried adjusting the injector constant....made no difference.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

If its +20 in the higher rpms then your fuel pump is likely not keeping up with the demand. Therefor the ecu sees this and just starts adding as much fuel as it can to prevent you from running too lean.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> Got the wrong plugs, thats what I get for going to a Japanese oriented shop. Got the right plugs, figured ok good to go.
> 
> Nope. Not a ****ing chance. Car is still knocking like a mother****er. 3* requested, and another 6* being pulled from cylinder 2 on high load/high rpm.
> 
> 02 correction is still retarded as well. Around town, cruising light accel etc its reasonable +/- 3%. High load/rpm its close to 20%. Pirated Cryser's maps....nope still doing it. Email Arnold, tried adjusting the injector constant....made no difference.


Your fueling system has a problem. Either a failing stock pump or an inline pump that cannot maintain constant fuel pressure at high PSI.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

spartiati said:


> If its +20 in the higher rpms then your fuel pump is likely not keeping up with the demand. Therefor the ecu sees this and just starts adding as much fuel as it can to prevent you from running too lean.


What IM not getting though, is if that's the case why is requested lambda vs actual meeting up? Maybe my thought process is off here, but if there was insufficient volume at high boost/high rpm then wouldn't corrections not make a difference?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, Last night it was around 46 degree's and I was coming back from a meet. I ran the car good for about a mile and then noticed while just doing normal driving that my A/F was reading in the low to mid 11's
So for the next 20 miles or so I just kept my eyes on my gauge. When I would floor it, it would make it up to around the mid 13's but as soon as I let off the gas it would go over 17's and once it got back down to my 5th gear cruising RPM's it stuck itself again in the 11's. I am running the 630cc TT 225 MAF File. Anyone have any idea's why this A/F might be running lean?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

NJ1.8T said:


> Anyone have any idea's why this A/F might be running lean?


Not without logs


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> What IM not getting though, is if that's the case why is requested lambda vs actual meeting up? Maybe my thought process is off here, but if there was insufficient volume at high boost/high rpm then wouldn't corrections not make a difference?


Normally your injectors would be running in the 70-80% duty cycle range towards red line if your fuel pump was fine. As pressure drops your injectors stay open longer. If you look in the genesis 2 injectors page I posted a log of my car doing the same exact thing. You can see the o2 corrections go up and injector duty cycle approach the 100% duty cycle range. Can be very dangerous. I've since dropped the boost pressure and not beating on the car until I get the upgraded fuel pump I need.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

spartiati said:


> Normally your injectors would be running in the 70-80% duty cycle range towards red line if your fuel pump was fine. As pressure drops your injectors stay open longer. If you look in the genesis 2 injectors page I posted a log of my car doing the same exact thing. You can see the o2 corrections go up and injector duty cycle approach the 100% duty cycle range. Can be very dangerous. I've since dropped the boost pressure and not beating on the car until I get the upgraded fuel pump I need.


Makes sense i suppose. Arnold had suggest i check the fuel filter as well, so i went and picked one up yesterday. I lloked on here for a diy of sort to see what i was getting myself into, and i dont think its a good idea with it being 20 degrees out. I coukd se those half ass clips breaking, and considering its my daily i cannot be without a car.

Considering the mileage of my car its probably the fuel pump too. Whatsthe good word on the genesis pumps?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Great pump for drop in fitment and 370BHP. So roughly 300-320WHP solution. If you are going for more I say hold out for USRT's Genesis 2 pump.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

spartiati said:


> Great pump for drop in fitment and 370BHP. So roughly 300-320WHP solution. If you are going for more I say hold out for USRT's Genesis 2 pump.


I figure for the price of that pump versus a new oem one it would not be a bad idea. What is so special about the gen2 pump?


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## RoloGTI (Sep 7, 2008)

I was under the same problem years ago....asked a lot and nothing help...the solution....install the ecu oxygen sensor at about 22 cm from the turbo....all my lean rich problems solved for ever...now the gauge shows and tje inj do what i I told them to do


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Dave926 said:


> I figure for the price of that pump versus a new oem one it would not be a bad idea. What is so special about the gen2 pump?


Gen2 pump flows lots more than stock. Release date should be soon


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Car is 100% stock, minus the 3 inch turboback. 02 sensors are more or less in the same exact spot as stock


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Harvey, 11 is running rich. What are your block 32 values? Do you have adaptation? Are you running a maf? If so unplug it and see what the fueling does.

When cruising a properly calibrated tune should be targeting 14.7 not 11 afr 

You should see lean values when off the gas and in vacuum, ie decelerating.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Sabby, I am now running a TT 225 MAF on my setup and also running the non vvt file. I got the A/F to run in the 14's while cruising now. I have a problem with my CCM which is part of the #14 fuse so I was unable to run Block 32. I actually got Block 32 today after driving around for appts and so on, a good 30 minutes of driving and my values were 0.0% on the first two blocks of 032. Is that what its suppose to be? Also when I let off the gas it goes to lean and when I push it hard it dips down into the low 12's.



sabbySC said:


> Harvey, 11 is running rich. What are your block 32 values? Do you have adaptation? Are you running a maf? If so unplug it and see what the fueling does.
> 
> When cruising a properly calibrated tune should be targeting 14.7 not 11 afr
> 
> You should see lean values when off the gas and in vacuum, ie decelerating.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Did tapp ever make the VVT file better for those having issues with backfiring, etc?


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Dub-Nub said:


> Did tapp ever make the VVT file better for those having issues with backfiring, etc?


Nope. I tried it once it came out n had the same issues u had. Tried it again from the ones in maestro n dame issues. Therefore, whatever it is thats makin some cars have these issues has not been resolved. 

Sent from my 2005 GLI


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> Did tapp ever make the VVT file better for those having issues with backfiring, etc?


The new Gen2 vvt files have been great. I never once had an issue. The old non vvt file I had issues with losing o2 corrections after a full throttle pull.

Only way of getting them back was to cycle the key on and off.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

^^^Thats the problem some people are having. My non vvt file runs awesome but the vvt isnt. Old n new version of vvt do the same to some cars. Thats why when people say its hardwaere issue im not too sure since the cars run great with non vvt but issues arise with vvt. 

Sent from my 2005 GLI


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> Sabby, I am now running a TT 225 MAF on my setup and also running the non vvt file. I got the A/F to run in the 14's while cruising now. I have a problem with my CCM which is part of the #14 fuse so I was unable to run Block 32. I actually got Block 32 today after driving around for appts and so on, a good 30 minutes of driving and my values were 0.0% on the first two blocks of 032. Is that what its suppose to be? Also when I let off the gas it goes to lean and when I push it hard it dips down into the low 12's.


You need to have values in the first two entries of block 32 in order to show that you are getting adaptation. Figure out what you are missing to get adaptation to work and I bet your tune will fall more in line as it should.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Thanks Sabby, Probably going to replace the CCM today, this way I can run Block 32 and see what it's doing. 


sabbySC said:


> You need to have values in the first two entries of block 32 in order to show that you are getting adaptation. Figure out what you are missing to get adaptation to work and I bet your tune will fall more in line as it should.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I can't figure that out either, My car is running pretty damn good now with the Non VVT file but anytime I go back to a VVT File things start to happen like the misfires and A/F messing up. I'm sticking with the Non VVT.



a4e3y5 said:


> ^^^Thats the problem some people are having. My non vvt file runs awesome but the vvt isnt. Old n new version of vvt do the same to some cars. Thats why when people say its hardwaere issue im not too sure since the cars run great with non vvt but issues arise with vvt.
> 
> Sent from my 2005 GLI


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> I can't figure that out either, My car is running pretty damn good now with the Non VVT file but anytime I go back to a VVT File things start to happen like the misfires and A/F messing up. I'm sticking with the Non VVT.


Yeah...theres quite a few people on the same boat he he he

Sent from my 2005 GLI


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Am I missing something here? The timing pull is like crazy and I can't correlate as to what's going on.

Log here.
http:// https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AgMf58LTPUUodFMzOG1lVi1HWm9zMEpIWURqNTNpTFE


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

Anyone have a good map they can send me? I am about to fire my car up with a bunch of new stuff added and wanted to see if someone had something close to me that runs awesome..

1.8t 
Fully Built AEB Head 
OBX Intake Manifold 
70mm S4 TB 
870cc injectors 
5857 precision 
6 speed if that matters i think i can change that. 

Pic i snapped yesterday


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Am I missing something here? The timing pull is like crazy and I can't correlate as to what's going on.
> 
> Log here.
> http:// https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AgMf58LTPUUodFMzOG1lVi1HWm9zMEpIWURqNTNpTFE


That link doesn't work for me ?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

sabbySC said:


> That link doesn't work for me ?


I'll fix the link a little later. We just got hit with a 2 footer and power had been out for two days


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Most current datalog, still knocking like crazy. I know its doing it too, I can faintly hear it while driving, and I have had a few different brands of 93 in there too.

Car is more or less stock, minus a Forge 008 and a 3" turboback

Log:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgMf58LTPUUodDFKWkNDTWYxMFlSTTFURTVxWElWYnc&hl=en#gid=0

Tune:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwMf58LTPUUoSDdWYXd4R0xNQUk/edit

Dont mind the half ass target filling map, that was my quick way of cutting power down a bit until USRT releases the gen2 pump.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Most current datalog, still knocking like crazy. I know its doing it too, I can faintly hear it while driving, and I have had a few different brands of 93 in there too.
> 
> Car is more or less stock, minus a Forge 008 and a 3" turboback
> 
> ...


I doubt you can hear that "knock"

Maybe check spark plugs in both cyl 2 and 4 there the only ones that are having the issue:thumbup:


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Dave926 said:


> Most current datalog, still knocking like crazy. I know its doing it too, I can faintly hear it while driving, and I have had a few different brands of 93 in there too.
> 
> Car is more or less stock, minus a Forge 008 and a 3" turboback
> 
> ...


What motor code is this? Mileage? Are all of your fault codes turned on in diagnosis?

A few quick observations:
1) Your injector duty cycle is pretty high. I'd test your rail pressure. I'd also play swap the coilpack and & fuel injector; seperatetly to see if you can get the knock to move to different cylinders. The stage 1 file uses a higher knock initial knock correction (probably to help combat rod snapping torque) so the high knock counts aren't truly as bad as they seem but still should be addressed. 
3) Revise your power enrichment map. .75 is to rich and also the maximum value the 02 sensor can read. You cannot tune along the threshold of the o2 sensor or you may (which you are) experience inaccuracies in your data logging giving you skewed results and trims
4) Revert to the stock Full Load Lambda map or increase the EGT threshold to an very high amount >1000. You do not want this map set stoich 1.0001. When the ECM detects high EGTs and crosses the EGT setpoint it moves to the FLL map, your telling the ECM to go way leaner--BAD.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> What motor code is this? Mileage? Are all of your fault codes turned on in diagnosis?
> 
> A few quick observations:
> 1) Your injector duty cycle is pretty high. I'd test your rail pressure. I'd also play swap the coilpack and & fuel injector; seperatetly to see if you can get the knock to move to different cylinders. The stage 1 file uses a higher knock initial knock correction (probably to help combat rod snapping torque) so the high knock counts aren't truly as bad as they seem but still should be addressed.
> ...


Its an aww car, about 230k on it. Replaced the exhaust valves, head gasket etc when it smashed all the valves around 212k. Cylinders had a ton of carbon on them, so im assuming the car had an easy life.

Coil packs and harness are all brand new, revision R if i remember correctly. Just put in the bkr7es iness than 500 miles ago.

I think the egt for component protection is set at 899, i will double check that. What ever monitors are set at when i first flashed the car have not been changed.

I know the fuel pump is weak, because at higher boost my 02 corrections were just short of insane. At the moment i dont mind running lower boost, i just want to get that knock under control. 

I readjusted the timing map last night, just havent flashed it yet. I took 4 degrees out of the whole thing for now, and will add a little here and there untill the car isnt knocking.

Im going to hold out on moving the injectors around till my 870s get in. Ive had old pencil injectors deteriorate in my hand from old age, and this being a daily i cant have that.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

One-Eight GTI said:


> I doubt you can hear that "knock"
> 
> Maybe check spark plugs in both cyl 2 and 4 there the only ones that are having the issue:thumbup:


I know it sounds nuts, but i can. Only at lower rpm though, not when this thing is screaming above 4k.


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

is anyone having probelms with the VVT files, my car runs awesome with it off but when turned on idles like crap and doesnt want to run at all


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Im just going to fill the whole ****ing timing map with zeros.


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## Trackstar616898 (Oct 31, 2010)

*ME7 with AMU (narrowband)*

how different would the benefits of having ME7 be if I have a narrowband ecu? Currently have a F23 on my 01 TT.

sorry for the newb question..


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Trackstar616898 said:


> how different would the benefits of having ME7 be if I have a narrowband ecu? Currently have a F23 on my 01 TT.
> 
> sorry for the newb question..


Alot. Your giving up alot of headroom on a narrowband tune. Definetly worth doing a wideband swap.




Dave926 said:


> Im just going to fill the whole ****ing timing map with zeros.


Pulling absurd amounts of timing isn't going to help if you have hardware issues. Your timing map shouldn't pull timing from the getgo, especially after removing 4 degrees. Thats your first indication something else is wrong. Until you start diagnosing injectors, knock sensors or whatever else. I had knock sensors go bad on my wifes stock mk4 Jetta after 40k. It also never through a code for them. It could even be phantom knock or hotspots on the pistons from valve contact? :thumbup:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Pulling absurd amounts of timing isn't going to help if you have hardware issues. Your timing map shouldn't pull timing from the getgo, especially after removing 4 degrees. Thats your first indication something else is wrong. Until you start diagnosing injectors, knock sensors or whatever else. I had knock sensors go bad on my wifes stock mk4 Jetta after 40k. It also never through a code for them. It could even be phantom knock or hotspots on the pistons from valve contact? :thumbup:


Its just frustrating at this point. I did get the knock to go away at high load/high rpm. Right now its at high load mid rpm. Its certainly getting better at this point. I know its knocking, I can hear it. 

When i bought the car, with smashed valves, the PO said it was at idle or just about that. When i pulled the head there were barely any marks on the pistons, but i will say a ton of carbon and **** on them overall. i did clean them a bit, but was afraid of getting too aggressive with them so some was left behind.


The local speed shop also suggested phantom knock, and i was going to put some 110 in the car but a two foot snow storm made that pointless. The roads are finally clearing up so i may give that a shot as well.

Tonight if i get a chance im going to check my spare motor to see what it has for sensors/injectors on it.

Another thing im wondering, what would shutting off the torque control do? I assume it kicks on after 100% load.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Its just frustrating at this point. I did get the knock to go away at high load/high rpm. Right now its at high load mid rpm. Its certainly getting better at this point. I know its knocking, I can hear it.
> 
> When i bought the car, with smashed valves, the PO said it was at idle or just about that. When i pulled the head there were barely any marks on the pistons, but i will say a ton of carbon and **** on them overall. i did clean them a bit, but was afraid of getting too aggressive with them so some was left behind.
> 
> ...


Are ur knock sensors torqued down properly?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Never been touched AFAIK.

Btw tojr, I tried to PM you but no luck. Dynotech is having a dyno day soon, I cant remember the date. Hit them up if you want and let me know if your going


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

weenerdog3443 said:


> is anyone having probelms with the VVT files, my car runs awesome with it off but when turned on idles like crap and doesnt want to run at all


Beuler... Gues I'm the only one having an issue. The idle will dip down to 200 rpm then up and when you hit the gas will hesitate before it does anything. Witht the no Vvt file not an issue if it helps it is an aww motor instead of an awp

Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk 2


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

weenerdog3443 said:


> Beuler... Gues I'm the only one having an issue. The idle will dip down to 200 rpm then up and when you hit the gas will hesitate before it does anything. Witht the no Vvt file not an issue if it helps it is an aww motor instead of an awp
> 
> Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk 2


You r not alone. Theres quite a few people whose cars r not happy with vvt yet non vvt files work great. Scroll upp n u will find what the issues r. Im one of those whos havin issues with vvt files while nonvvt work great for me

Sent from my 2005 GLI


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

weenerdog3443 said:


> Beuler... Gues I'm the only one having an issue. The idle will dip down to 200 rpm then up and when you hit the gas will hesitate before it does anything. Witht the no Vvt file not an issue if it helps it is an aww motor instead of an awp
> 
> Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk 2


When you mean it runs better when vvt is off are you saying that you are setting the vvt map to zero or are you flashing between a vvt and nonvvt file. 

If you are flashing between files then the entire architecture of the file is different. Try carrying over all your fueling maps from one to the other as well as your idle torque settings and see if it helps. 

If you are turning it off by setting it to zero in the vvt map then try turning it off in every column but the last one. That will keep the vvt on only at full throttle basically.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Here's my two pulls from yesterday and I noticed that my knock is way up there when hitting the higher RPM's and pushing it in 3rd gear. Also I'm running leaner up top also. Here are the two runs I did yesterday, any help would be greatly appreciated. Would the knock have anything to do with my pre cat O2 sensor being on the outs and throwing codes?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdFk0d1Nya240aGl3dW5iWlNQWExzWUE&usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdE5UdXNvS295OVJyNUlaNHNLQm5kWWc&usp=sharing


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

weenerdog3443 said:


> Beuler... Gues I'm the only one having an issue. The idle will dip down to 200 rpm then up and when you hit the gas will hesitate before it does anything. Witht the no Vvt file not an issue if it helps it is an aww motor instead of an awp





a4e3y5 said:


> You r not alone. Theres quite a few people whose cars r not happy with vvt yet non vvt files work great. Scroll upp n u will find what the issues r. Im one of those whos havin issues with vvt files while nonvvt work great for me


We are willing to help but you guys need to help us. There are literally 30 different files types for the 1.8t alone. You guys need to provide details of your setup. Just saying VVT file runs like crap does nothing, thats been pointed out by 3 users in the past 2 pages. We don't know if your running MAF/MAP, injectors, injecotr constant, fuel pressure, stock throttle body or if anything else has been modified. For whatever reason people have had this issue for some time. Until you guys start collectively sharing information on your setups I doubt anything will get solved. If you guys would post up your specs in some organized fashion like below when asking a tune/problem question I think it would help move things along. 


Maybe somehthing like this:

Base File: AWP G2VVT 630cc
Load input: MAFLESS:
Injector Constant: .04979
Injector Brand: Siemens 630cc
Boost Control: MBC
Throttle body: Stock
DV/BOV: Vent to Atmosphere

Since we are on the subject, another suggestion for the novices. If your posting logs post your modified TUNE file. This is not always required but can be a great deal of help. You can't always tell what is happening just from a log. Case in point Dave926's recent postings. By comparing his tune w/ log I could see his fueling was to rich causing the trims to freeze and be inaccurate. If I had just see a log file I might not have know this, contrary I may have thought the tune was dumping fuel to combat very high EGT levels.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

NJ1.8T said:


> Here's my two pulls from yesterday and I noticed that my knock is way up there when hitting the higher RPM's and pushing it in 3rd gear. Also I'm running leaner up top also. Here are the two runs I did yesterday, any help would be greatly appreciated. Would the knock have anything to do with my pre cat O2 sensor being on the outs and throwing codes?
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdFk0d1Nya240aGl3dW5iWlNQWExzWUE&usp=sharing
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdE5UdXNvS295OVJyNUlaNHNLQm5kWWc&usp=sharing


Stop doing full throttle runs before you melt something! If you know your primary o2 sensor is dying your playing russian roulette. Why do you not have fuel trims?


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

We are willing to help but you guys need to help us. There are literally 30 different files types for the 1.8t alone. You guys need to provide details of your setup. Just saying VVT file runs like crap does nothing, thats been pointed out by 3 users in the past 2 pages. We don't know if your running MAF/MAP, injectors, injecotr constant, fuel pressure, stock throttle body or if anything else has been modified. For whatever reason people have had this issue for some time. Until you guys start collectively sharing information on your setups I doubt anything will get solved. If you guys would post up your specs in some organized fashion like below when asking a tune/problem question I think it would help move things along. 


Maybe somehthing like this:

Base File: AWP G2VVT 630cc and non vvt file
Load input: MAFLESS:
Injector Constant: .051
Injector Brand: Siemens 630cc
Boost Control: MBC
Throttle body: Stock
DV/BOV: Vent to Atmosphere

In my case this is what im running. Peoples question is how nonvvt doesnt give problems but vvt does? By this i mean base, untouched files. Plus, symptoms are the same....not that people have different kind of issues. I fpash my car with non vvt n it will run fine. As soon as i flash vvt...not so.


Sent from my 2005 GLI


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

a4e3y5 said:


> We are willing to help but you guys need to help us. There are literally 30 different files types for the 1.8t alone. You guys need to provide details of your setup. Just saying VVT file runs like crap does nothing, thats been pointed out by 3 users in the past 2 pages. We don't know if your running MAF/MAP, injectors, injecotr constant, fuel pressure, stock throttle body or if anything else has been modified. For whatever reason people have had this issue for some time. Until you guys start collectively sharing information on your setups I doubt anything will get solved. If you guys would post up your specs in some organized fashion like below when asking a tune/problem question I think it would help move things along.
> 
> 
> Maybe somehthing like this:
> ...


Okay I took some time and compared the 630cc VVT to non-vvt. There are differences to the injector settings. Do what Spartiati suggested....Try transferring your IC, BVC, and Min. PulseWidth over to the vvt and see if it idles better.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Okay I took some time and compared the 630cc VVT to non-vvt. There are differences to the injector settings. Do what Spartiati suggested....Try transferring your IC, BVC, and Min. PulseWidth over to the vvt and see if it idles better.


Yeah i might do that. I quickly looked at them n noticed that too. The issue with this is also the fact that there is some backfiring which sometimes throw a code as well a a lil hiccup on boost onset. This has been mentioned by other people as well

Sent from my 2005 GLI


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Never been touched AFAIK.
> 
> Btw tojr, I tried to PM you but no luck. Dynotech is having a dyno day soon, I cant remember the date. Hit them up if you want and let me know if your going


Do I know u. And yea I cleared some inbox space


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Im just going to fill the whole ****ing timing map with zeros.


And yea ill prob go to the dyno day if u find out more info


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Met you at one of the last dyno days they had....earlier last year


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

My appolgies. It's an aww motor, 1.8 with a gt-3071 with 630 injectors running the base file mafless. I did talk to chris tapp and he said the aww is not supported with the current version. I am going to try with the file that he sent me originally for the car and see if that works. If not o well

Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk 2


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## whitebreadd (Oct 12, 2011)

I've got a few questions. 

1. Does maestro have narrowband simulaiton? And if not, why not? 

2.(Related to #1), can you disable closed loop altogether? 

3. (First two sort of leading up to the third), how difficult is it to set up a true speed density(mafless) set up? 

This personally is related to a b5 s4 to be specific 00'.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Met you at one of the last dyno days they had....earlier last year


Hmmm. Don't recall. But there having one Saturday. Can't make it tho


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

whitebreadd said:


> I've got a few questions.
> 
> 1. Does maestro have narrowband simulaiton? And if not, why not?
> 
> ...


Can't do wideband simulation on an me7. And setting up a speed density on an s4 is near impossible if u want reliable tuning. Otherwise they would be doing it. I have a wideband tune but prefer a maf regardless


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## whitebreadd (Oct 12, 2011)

tojr1088 said:


> Can't do wideband simulation on an me7.


Is there a specific reason why not?



tojr1088 said:


> And setting up a speed density on an s4 is near impossible if u want reliable tuning. Otherwise they would be doing it.


Care to explain? Im from the dsm world, i've converted and dd'd several speed density tuned cars. I absolutely hate maf compensation, if i wanted to "trick" ecu i would have just ran an afc. 

Most people over there would agree the only place a maf should be is in the garbage can. 



tojr1088 said:


> I have a wideband tune but prefer a maf regardless


This confuses me, because you cant tune without a wb lol. Tuning with a nb is not tuning, its just guessing.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

whitebreadd said:


> Is there a specific reason why not?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can use a wideband and still log and adjust the tune based on it. Maf for our cars is much better. It's all in how the Bosch me7 was designed and it can't be modified as easily as the Jdm and Dsm cars can


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## whitebreadd (Oct 12, 2011)

tojr1088 said:


> You can use a wideband and still log and adjust the tune based on it. Maf for our cars is much better. It's all in how the Bosch me7 was designed and it can't be modified as easily as the Jdm and Dsm cars can


Ah i see what your saying. Guess i have to weigh the other options. Doesn't sound like this is for me. Thanks for the replies though.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Got the New Pre Cat O2 Sensor today and did two 3rd gear pulls. Knock was at -7.5 for the 1st and the next 3 were at -9 and also the Lambda dropped.

But here is the setup I am running.

Trurbo: Precision HP5558 Billet DBB .63ar 4" in /2.5" out
Base File: AWP STAGE3 TT225Maf
Load input: MAF
Injector Constant: 0.051721
Injector Brand: Siemens 630cc
Boost Control: AEM Electronic Boost Gauge/Controller
Throttle body: Stock
DV/BOV: Vent to Atmosphere

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdGpib25KelBNbzhaVVhzbTNRYmZiSGc&usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdHk4d0RVVm5jYlV6OEF4azIxam9UZWc&usp=sharing


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Based on my logs, cylinder 2 knocks the most, followed by 3 and 4. I dont think cylinder 1 has ever knocked. Plugs seem to coincide with my logs.

Cylinders 1,2









Cylinders 1,2,3,4 in that order









Anyways I swapped out a whole rail, fpr and injectors from an AWP that had a 1/4 of the mileage mine has. I will be going out later on for a logging run. If this does not fix it I have ev14 850cc injectors on the way, and I will run the car on e85 till i can swap in one of the other spare engines I have.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Based on my logs, cylinder 2 knocks the most, followed by 3 and 4. I dont think cylinder 1 has ever knocked. Plugs seem to coincide with my logs.
> 
> Cylinders 1,2
> 
> ...


If ur knocking that bad on a stage 2/1 flash I don't think e85 will fix the problem


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I would like to think that vs 93oct I would be better off. Its a short term solution for now till I can get the rest of my **** together.

Something for sure is causing those 2 cylinders to run hot. Ill figure it out sooner or later


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

On cold start the ecu will not start using o2 corrections until after the car warms up a little. How do I force the ECU into closed loop immediately every time I start the car?


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> On cold start the ecu will not start using o2 corrections until after the car warms up a little. How do I force the ECU into closed loop immediately every time I start the car?


Is that a very good idea?? Don't you want your wideband sensor to warm up first so it gets acurate readings???


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

The car is idling at 20:1 AFR until o2 correction kicks in.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Have you ever raised idle torque to avoid problems with large injectors running at super low pulse width?


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Have you ever raised idle torque to avoid problems with large injectors running at super low pulse width?


Sorry I can't help you Richard... I suck at Maestro and am thinking more and more about gonzo... Isn't there a warmup fuel enrichment map you can adjust or something along those lines???


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

If I lived in Florida I would go visit Marc at VapMotorsports and have him tune that beast:thumbup:


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> The car is idling at 20:1 AFR until o2 correction kicks in.


have you upped your alfa n values? Idle torque isn't the solution if you can idle at 14.7 when corrections take place.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

sabbySC said:


> have you upped your alfa n values? Idle torque isn't the solution if you can idle at 14.7 when corrections take place.


I haven't touched Alfa N. I am running mafless if that matters at all


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> I haven't touched Alfa N. I am running mafless if that matters at all


Time to start reading up on tuning, alpha n is the predominant factor in mafless tunes.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

I should say that the file I started with was the Eurodyne 1000cc 80mm SEM file. The only difference in my setup is the larger injectors. After scaling the injector constant for the 2225cc flow + 30% for E85 I arrived at the new injector constant.

Other than that no significant changes have been made.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

whats your IC? Usually after you take some logs of part throttle situations and idle you must look at the o2 correction data in those particular driving situations and make a educated decision on adjustments to either BVC or IC. Your block 32 values can sometimes steer you in the wrong direction. Sooo if you see that your idle correction is 20% but your part throttle and WOT situations are decent. Stick with your IC because it will have more of an influence in part throttle and WOT. Make small adjustments to your BVC at the problem voltage. Make sure your exhaust and charge/vacuum lines are tight.

I can't say that I've tuned E85 setups yet but I would suggest scaling your BVC values in increments of 10%. You'll have to look up the proper way of adjustment to that curve though. BVC is most likely your problem though.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Budsdubbin said:


> whats your IC? Usually after you take some logs of part throttle situations and idle you must look at the o2 correction data in those particular driving situations and make a educated decision on adjustments to either BVC or IC. Your block 32 values can sometimes steer you in the wrong direction. Sooo if you see that your idle correction is 20% but your part throttle and WOT situations are decent. Stick with your IC because it will have more of an influence in part throttle and WOT. Make small adjustments to your BVC at the problem voltage. Make sure your exhaust and charge/vacuum lines are tight.
> 
> I can't say that I've tuned E85 setups yet but I would suggest scaling your BVC values in increments of 10%. You'll have to look up the proper way of adjustment to that curve though. BVC is most likely your problem though.


 
IC is .019

I am using the BVC values supplied by USRT for those specific injectors. I think they should need very little adjustment. I anticipated most of the tuning would need to be done on part throttle sections of the map. Will try to reflash in the AM with some new changes and see what happens.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Afew things to try:

1) lower the "minimum injector pulse width" to help lower the lowest allowable pulse width by the ecu. 

2) if you are running mafless then set everything in the "Maf corrections" to 1.001. This table is still utilized on mafless tunes.

3) you said you are using the 80mm file. Are you using an 80mm TB? Last I checked the airflow tables from the 70mm file were the same as the 80mm file. You may need to further tweak the airflow tables to get it to run right. Larger throttle bodies have the biggest effect at idle and part throttle. 

Hope this helps.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

spartiati said:


> Afew things to try:
> 
> 1) lower the "minimum injector pulse width" to help lower the lowest allowable pulse width by the ecu.
> 
> ...


Yes I am using an 80mm TB. Thanks for the tip I will keep everyone posted :beer:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Yes I am using an 80mm TB. Thanks for the tip I will keep everyone posted :beer:


Here try these airflow tables out. I quickly went through and changed them around to better suite your 80mm file. These will likely need refinement but should help you especially at idle and light throttle loads.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/juad3gwsfxtclnv/TEST 80mm Alpha N.bin
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7401za36epw2i5/TEST throttle angle vs airflow.bin


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

This is a general release to all maestro users. This is my tweaked accelerator pedal map. It adds some resolution to the midrange rpms as well as softens the overall pedal feel. I hated the twitchy throttle response especially while cornering. In other words if you want to accelerate it should take alittle extra pedal input. Cryser and I were going back and forth with this, for some time tweaking and discussing it. This is my version of that pedal map. 

Feedback is welcome. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2togi3wl84wiba/Less aggressive Accelerator Pedal Map.bin


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

spartiati said:


> This is a general release to all maestro users. This is my tweaked accelerator pedal map. It adds some resolution to the midrange rpms as well as softens the overall pedal feel. I hated the twitchy throttle response especially while cornering. In other words if you want to accelerate it should take alittle extra pedal input. Cryser and I were going back and forth with this, for some time tweaking and discussing it. This is my version of that pedal map.
> 
> Feedback is welcome.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2togi3wl84wiba/Less aggressive Accelerator Pedal Map.bin


 
Thank you so much for your contributions to the community.. When I get home (headed out the door for work) I'll check it out, really curious to see what the difference is between the base file and yours:thumbup: Won't actually be able to use it till summer though


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

One-Eight GTI said:


> Thank you so much for your contributions to the community.. When I get home (headed out the door for work) I'll check it out, really curious to see what the difference is between the base file and yours:thumbup: Won't actually be able to use it till summer though


I hated the on/off feeling of the throttle especially when leaving from a dead stop. You barely touch the throttle and your at 2000rpms. 

Also during a long sweeping corner on the road course or onramp you are giving a constant throttle input (no problem here). You are now past the apex of the corner and want to start slowly applying more throttle to accelerate out of the corner. Here is where a slight increase in throttle input would make the car jump out of the corner and understeer. 

This .bin makes it much more enjoyable (for me atleast) to drive the car.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I hated the on/off feeling of the throttle especially when leaving from a dead stop. You barely touch the throttle and your at 2000rpms.
> 
> Also during a long sweeping corner on the road course or onramp you are giving a constant throttle input (no problem here). You are now past the apex of the corner and want to start slowly applying more throttle to accelerate out of the corner. Here is where a slight increase in throttle input would make the car jump out of the corner and understeer.
> 
> This .bin makes it much more enjoyable (for me atleast) to drive the car.


Agreed Steve- At one point I dumbed my pedal response down so much other people would stall my car off the line- I even did it the first few times!

In my case the pedal being so sensitive that the slightest lift of the pedal in a turn would result in huge oversteer and total loss of control for most people. I think you've seen that happen a few times to my car on the track haha


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Just wanted to say that I got my car running pretty good, thanks for your help on the MAF issues.



Budsdubbin said:


> whats your IC? Usually after you take some logs of part throttle situations and idle you must look at the o2 correction data in those particular driving situations and make a educated decision on adjustments to either BVC or IC. Your block 32 values can sometimes steer you in the wrong direction. Sooo if you see that your idle correction is 20% but your part throttle and WOT situations are decent. Stick with your IC because it will have more of an influence in part throttle and WOT. Make small adjustments to your BVC at the problem voltage. Make sure your exhaust and charge/vacuum lines are tight.
> 
> I can't say that I've tuned E85 setups yet but I would suggest scaling your BVC values in increments of 10%. You'll have to look up the proper way of adjustment to that curve though. BVC is most likely your problem though.


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

spartiati said:


> This is a general release to all maestro users. This is my tweaked accelerator pedal map. It adds some resolution to the midrange rpms as well as softens the overall pedal feel. I hated the twitchy throttle response especially while cornering. In other words if you want to accelerate it should take alittle extra pedal input. Cryser and I were going back and forth with this, for some time tweaking and discussing it. This is my version of that pedal map.
> 
> Feedback is welcome.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2togi3wl84wiba/Less aggressive Accelerator Pedal Map.bin


If anything I have thought that my pedal is too soft during dead starts. Feels like I need to give it too much gas to get going. Maybe I'm a tooth off timing but I don't think so

Sent from my GT-P5110 using Tapatalk 2


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Something must be up. Mine drives fine even during these really really cold mornings. I am using the gen2vvt 70mm file. Which one r u using?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I have the Sprint Booster installed which is nice. I actually got it before I got Maestro. But it has 3 settings that I can change on the fly. The first is stock, the second is mild and the third is aggressive. But I might try bin file and then also use the sprint booster and see if there's a Happy Medium.



spartiati said:


> This is a general release to all maestro users. This is my tweaked accelerator pedal map. It adds some resolution to the midrange rpms as well as softens the overall pedal feel. I hated the twitchy throttle response especially while cornering. In other words if you want to accelerate it should take alittle extra pedal input. Cryser and I were going back and forth with this, for some time tweaking and discussing it. This is my version of that pedal map.
> 
> Feedback is welcome.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2togi3wl84wiba/Less aggressive Accelerator Pedal Map.bin


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

spartiati said:


> Afew things to try:
> 
> 1) lower the "minimum injector pulse width" to help lower the lowest allowable pulse width by the ecu.
> 
> ...


Sorry I have been out of town all weekend. Just got back and had a chance to recalculate injector constant. 

Here is the engine specs:

stock 1.8L (1781cc) displacement
Genesis 2000cc injectors (actual flow @ 3bar is 2225cc per Quintin @USRT)
E85 Fuel

Per spartiati's recommendation I subtracted 30% from the injector flow rate to get (1557.5cc/min) 

Using the stock displacement figure and a flow rate of 1557.5cc/min I came up with a new injector constant of *0.020979*.

Does anyone have a good 80mm SEM file that they are willing to share? I am not sure how good the 80mm basefiles are in maestro...


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I posted some bins to you area posts back for the 80mm airflow tables. 

Between the throttle body and the injectors itll be harder to dial in the tune. If you have a 70mm TB I would swap that in and use those airflow tables From the 70mm file. Then dial in your new injectors. Finally swap back to the 80mm and tweak the airflow tables. 

If you see you have a global fuel correction of +- X all over the place you can adjust that by playing with the injector constant. Increase it to take fuel away decrease to add fuel everywhere.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

spartiati said:


> I posted some bins to you area posts back for the 80mm airflow tables.
> 
> Between the throttle body and the injectors itll be harder to dial in the tune. If you have a 70mm TB I would swap that in and use those airflow tables From the 70mm file. Then dial in your new injectors. Finally swap back to the 80mm and tweak the airflow tables.
> 
> If you see you have a global fuel correction of +- X all over the place you can adjust that by playing with the injector constant. Increase it to take fuel away decrease to add fuel everywhere.


Thank you. I imported the files onto my 2000cc file and noticed some small changes to the airflow and alpha N maps. I will take it for a drive tomorrow and report back with results.:thumbup:


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Doing some more tuning today. I am getting serious breakup around 20psi in any gear. Fueling is dead on 12:1 on E85 so I think my spark may be blowing out. I will throw some new plugs in it tonight at a smaller gap and see what happens


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## poopie (Feb 22, 2005)

anyone have the latest version of eurodyne flash? I can't log in to update my version. Anyone else having issues? I'm having misfire issues and I need to turn on missfire detection. PM me if you can email me.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

poopie said:


> anyone have the latest version of eurodyne flash? I can't log in to update my version. Anyone else having issues? I'm having misfire issues and I need to turn on missfire detection. PM me if you can email me.


Download the latest via eurodyne website. The date on the website is wrong it always has the latest. Just login and download it. That's what I always do!


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## poopie (Feb 22, 2005)

WiKKiDTT said:


> Download the latest via eurodyne website. The date on the website is wrong it always has the latest. Just login and download it. That's what I always do!


chris contacted me. the site was messed up. I'm up and running again. Thanks!


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

spartiati said:


> This is a general release to all maestro users. This is my tweaked accelerator pedal map. It adds some resolution to the midrange rpms as well as softens the overall pedal feel. I hated the twitchy throttle response especially while cornering. In other words if you want to accelerate it should take alittle extra pedal input. Cryser and I were going back and forth with this, for some time tweaking and discussing it. This is my version of that pedal map.
> 
> Feedback is welcome.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2togi3wl84wiba/Less aggressive Accelerator Pedal Map.bin


Does this work for any throttle body/


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

derekb727 said:


> Does this work for any throttle body/


This pedal map yes. This just translates the pedal input into a specified throttle plate opening. I made it more linear throughout the entire rpm range.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Okay perfect I will give it a shot! 

Okay, I've been out of the loop for a while. How exactly do I get this into my current file. When I downloaded it. It tried to open it with VLC?


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

finally got maestro working.

But after looking at the maps of the base 630 non vvt file, and the 630 vvt file, i noticed some differences. some are obvious offcourse but some not..for instance:

-maximum throttle angle
-time delay for power enrichment
-egt strategy
-boost control for air temperature
-acceleration fuel wall film factor
-deceleration fuel wall film factor

Why would the non vvt 630 file not have these?

comparing the non vvt--> AWP_Stage3_630cc_S4.mstro to AWP_Stage3_SemManifold_70mmTB_siemens630cc.mstro


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*3rd gear pulls*

Alright, I did a few pulls after tweaking some of the maps and everything looked great till I saw how much I was leaning out up top near redline. Just wanted to ask, how could I go about getting more fuel as I get closer to redline. Would that have something to do with the injector constant? I will attach the two logs I did with google spread sheet so anyone can take a look at them to help me figure out why I am leaning out at redline! Thanks for your help and assistance.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdFQ2NHA5Z29DYXFhU09tbjVTNTA1eEE&usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdEl2VWQ0MlBkQjlIVG9Qdi1WOWlDaUE&usp=sharing



Turbo: Precision HP5558 Billet DBB .63ar 4" in /2.5" out
Base File: AWP STAGE3 TT225Maf
Load input: MAF
Injector Constant: 0.051721
Injector Brand: Siemens 630cc
Boost Control: AEM Electronic Boost Gauge/Controller
Throttle body: Stock
DV/BOV: Vent to Atmosphere


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Try the main fuel correction table in the higher rpm range and report back.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Sabby, Shouldn't the Main Fuel Correction be 1.0001 all the way through and across the board? 



sabbySC said:


> Try the main fuel correction table in the higher rpm range and report back.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

NJ1.8T said:


> Sabby, Shouldn't the Main Fuel Correction be 1.0001 all the way through and across the board?


Its not the end of the world if you end up using the main fuel correction. It just shouldn't be the first thing you go to. Use your injector correction and maf corrections (yes even on a mafless car) and if it still needs further tweaking go for the main fuel table.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> ...everything looked great till I saw how much I was leaning out up top near redline....why I am leaning out at redline! Thanks for your help and assistance.


I'm seeing you running .81 Lambda all the way to the end of your pulls. This jives with the ECU's requests. And your fueling corrections are minimal (3-8%). This all looks nominal. Where exactly are you seeing a lean condition?


----------



## BlkMk2Jetta (Aug 25, 2008)

Stupid questions that I hope someone can answer. So I might go to Verdict Motorsports shortly to have my car flashed with Eurodyne software. However Noah told me I'm also able to do a "base flash" that doesn't include the wire. 

My questions are, if I later want the wire will it cost me more to get it? The normal flash was i believe $599 then with the wire etc $799. The base flash I assume I can't tinker with the car at all in terms of the software? Do I still have launch control and no lift shift settings? Again, the car is on the factory tune and Id just be getting the base eurodyne flash. I'm not even sure that's considered Maestro 7?

Edit: Never mind, was on the phone with Verdict for a while. They answered all my stupid questions. Phones disconnected and they even called me back, great customer service:thumbup:


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I'm seeing you running .81 Lambda all the way to the end of your pulls. This jives with the ECU's requests. And your fueling corrections are minimal (3-8%). This all looks nominal. Where exactly are you seeing a lean condition?


This.


I didn't review your logs, so this makes sense. I said use main fuel correction as it would quickly show wether or not you are hardware limited or tune limited.

I don't really have time to reviewing logs or much else right now, too busy trying to get my life back in order as I recently moved and got burned pretty bad financially in the process.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I hear you Sabby, I hope everything works out for you and you find a way to get the financials back. 
I did a run yesterday and I will post it up on here soon as I transfer it over to google. 



sabbySC said:


> This.
> 
> 
> I didn't review your logs, so this makes sense. I said use main fuel correction as it would quickly show wether or not you are hardware limited or tune limited.
> ...


----------



## ANT THE KNEE (Aug 25, 2000)

what kind of boost controll are you guys using on BT setups?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Manual boost controller. Set it and forget it.

If you have the time and money then def an apexi boost controller is pretety awesome. 

Another option is using the eurodyne boost manager. One controller help regulate voltage to the fuel pump (so its not running 100% duty cycle 100% of the time), water meth pump if you have one installed and boost controller. Nifty little device.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Manual boost controller. Set it and forget it.
> 
> If you have the time and money then def an apexi boost controller is pretety awesome.
> 
> Another option is using the eurodyne boost manager. One controller help regulate voltage to the fuel pump (so its not running 100% duty cycle 100% of the time), water meth pump if you have one installed and boost controller. Nifty little device.


I love boost manager I set one up on my friends car. 

As for boost control I run the n75. I'm able to run whatever boost I want and currently 26psi. I use my truboost too my wastegate a top port to essentially adjust spring pressure up or down increasing my boost. 

I like the n75 because u get real nice boost control at all different throttle inputs. So your car at 50 percent throttle isn't trying to jump to a preset level. So I only hit max boost when I floor it. 

It's quite nice and way smoother with the n75. Worth the time calibrating it


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

spartiati said:


> Its not the end of the world if you end up using the main fuel correction. It just shouldn't be the first thing you go to. Use your injector correction and maf corrections (yes even on a mafless car) and if it still needs further tweaking go for the main fuel table.


What data value should be used when running the histogram feature on the injection correction map?

For instance when adjusting main fuel table you use the o2 correction value when running the histogram to make changes.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

All histogram corrections are based off o2 correction


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

spartiati said:


> This is a general release to all maestro users. This is my tweaked accelerator pedal map. It adds some resolution to the midrange rpms as well as softens the overall pedal feel. I hated the twitchy throttle response especially while cornering. In other words if you want to accelerate it should take alittle extra pedal input. Cryser and I were going back and forth with this, for some time tweaking and discussing it. This is my version of that pedal map.
> 
> Feedback is welcome.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2togi3wl84wiba/Less aggressive Accelerator Pedal Map.bin




Tried this out over the one that I had and it works beautifully. Simple flash and good to go. Props for sharing with us !!

Are there any other of these maps that help with drivability that I am missing over the 117 pages? Hahah!


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

tojr1088 said:


> All histogram corrections are based off o2 correction


So you are sure the injection correction map will adjust based off a histogram generated using o2 correction?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> So you are sure the injection correction map will adjust based off a histogram generated using o2 correction?


Yea


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> So you are sure the injection correction map will adjust based off a histogram generated using o2 correction?


Don't directly apply the correction values. Adjust map in very small amounts where needed


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Do you need to use both OEM O2 sensors with Maestro?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

derekb727 said:


> Do you need to use both OEM O2 sensors with Maestro?


You don't need the rear 02 on most applications. U need the primary 02 for sure tho


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

tojr1088 said:


> You don't need the rear 02 on most applications. U need the primary 02 for sure tho


Okay, *most applications*?

I am tired of looking at all 3 of them on my downpipe. Is there a way to tell which one i can remove because I am pretty sure they are mixed up. order wise


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

tojr1088 said:


> Don't directly apply the correction values. Adjust map in very small amounts where needed


I run the histogram on average value so the changes always occur in small increments


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> I run the histogram on average value so the changes always occur in small increments


As do I. But I found applying the values cause way Too drastic of a change. Lets say on average a cell of the map says 8 percent. I found that adding maybe 1 to 2 percent was more than enough. Injector milliseconds are very sensitive to big adjustments fueling wise


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

derekb727 said:


> Okay, *most applications*?
> 
> I am tired of looking at all 3 of them on my downpipe. Is there a way to tell which one i can remove because I am pretty sure they are mixed up. order wise


Um. Idk what is your car. A wideband primary 02 will have six wires. As far as other o2 sensors just unplug one and see if u get a code for primary. Then ull know the other one


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

tojr1088 said:


> Um. Idk what is your car. A wideband primary 02 will have six wires. As far as other o2 sensors just unplug one and see if u get a code for primary. Then ull know the other one


That should do the trick, its a 2001 a4, in my sig


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

derekb727 said:


> That should do the trick, its a 2001 a4, in my sig


If its a 2001 a4 then ur primary is the 6 pin black plug. Rear 02 is brown 4 pin plug pretty sure


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## lightofthenight08 (Aug 9, 2011)

*HELP!! Emissions and tune Pleaseeee!!!*

I just received Eurodyne and for some reason I can't find out how to disable emissions.
I did go to the diagonostic page on Maestro 7 but I'm not really sure what to disable.
I do have the resistors in place but I still have a check engine light due to emissions.
Can someone give me some guidance?? A screenshot of what to disable would definitely help.

And also:

I had APR before and the car was not just boosting more but it ran alot more smooth and definitely more power. The base map from Eurodyne is good but if anyone with the same setup would be nice enough to share their customer map, I would really appreciated.

2004 jetta gls 1.8t stock internals (AWP)
K04 turbo
4bar regulator
Front mount intercooler
3 inch catless exhaust
N249, EVAP, SAI emissions delete
Forge DV
Forge VAG Silicon Intake hose
Neuspeed short ram intake
Ebay oil catch can (integrated Engineering block off plate)

I tried the Eurodyne forum and had no success, PM me if possible.
Thank you


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

lightofthenight08 said:


> I just received Eurodyne and for some reason I can't find out how to disable emissions.
> I did go to the diagonostic page on Maestro 7 but I'm not really sure what to disable.
> I do have the resistors in place but I still have a check engine light due to emissions.
> Can someone give me some guidance?? A screenshot of what to disable would definitely help.
> ...


Disable whatever u have disconnected. And as far as having things unplugged you need to have the Vvt and evap solenoid plugged in or resistored no matter what


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## GetBoosted84 (Apr 1, 2007)

tojr1088 said:


> If its a 2001 a4 then ur primary is the 6 pin black plug. Rear 02 is brown 4 pin plug pretty sure


You're correct. Primary = Black / Secondary = Brown.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Now is it the lower the constant the less fuel you get and the higher the constant the more fuel you get?

Also what I am trying to figure out is with the 630cc without a MAF the IC is at 0.051837 and with a TT 225 MAF the IC is at 0.047952

When I get up there in the rpm's in 3rd gear right around 6400 the A/F starts to drop below the 12's and into the 11's.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> Now is it the lower the constant the less fuel you get and the higher the constant the more fuel you get?
> 
> Also what I am trying to figure out is with the 630cc without a MAF the IC is at 0.051837 and with a TT 225 MAF the IC is at 0.047952
> 
> When I get up there in the rpm's in 3rd gear right around 6400 the A/F starts to drop below the 12's and into the 11's.


Injector constant should be ore determined and not change much from a calculated value. If adding a maf changes it then you have correcting to do possibly in flowmeter corrections


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

How do you guys tune your alpha-n and throttle angle vs airflow ?

i have a 75mm tb and small port rmr and manifold(and 630cc),and running the base file 630cc s4 maf(no vvt)with imported maps from the 70mm sem vvt file(imported alpha-n and throttle angle vs airflow). but i get huge positive corrections when pushing the throttle.

So maybe i have less flow,because i have a smallport rmr(are the base files with sem bigport?)but i do have a bigger tb?

This is all maffless ofcourse.

Do i just add or subtract % from one map and do the opposite with the other?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> How do you guys tune your alpha-n and throttle angle vs airflow ?
> 
> i have a 75mm tb and small port rmr and manifold(and 630cc),and running the base file 630cc s4 maf(no vvt)with imported maps from the 70mm sem vvt file(imported alpha-n and throttle angle vs airflow). but i get huge positive corrections when pushing the throttle.
> 
> ...


Try the 80mm maps first if not I'd use correction maps either main fuel or injection correction. Injection correction preferred. Make sure your injector constant is right. Tuning alpha n and airflow maps are challenging if you don't understand them. They make drastic changes in drive ability if improper adjustments are made.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> Try the 80mm maps first if not I'd use correction maps either main fuel or injection correction. Injection correction preferred. Make sure your injector constant is right. Tuning alpha n and airflow maps are challenging if you don't understand them. They make drastic changes in drive ability if improper adjustments are made.


Your injector constant should be around .05 ish if your using 3 bar fpr


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

yeah,i used the wizard and it gave the same results as my calculated value...05187 i believe..

But i have positive correction when on throttle,so im adding fuell..that means my calculated airflow is to low and im getting less fuell then i require right?..Its probably not as easy as increasing calculated airflow,is it?

ill try the 80mm maps,but is tuning these maps that difficult?..i rather have my alpha n and airflow maps correct and not compensate with correction maps(unless im close and only have to compensate just a little)


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

80mm TB hang.

Has anyone got a way or a file that helps to eliminate the hang that you get with the Hemi 80mm TB?

There is so much info here, I read through like 15 pages, 

Is there a consensus on how to tune for e85?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

derekb727 said:


> 80mm TB hang.
> 
> Has anyone got a way or a file that helps to eliminate the hang that you get with the Hemi 80mm TB?
> 
> ...


Usually rev hang is miscaljbrated bvc values or injection correction values.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

tojr1088 said:


> Usually rev hang is miscaljbrated bvc values or injection correction values.


How should one go about correctly calibrating them?


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## lightofthenight08 (Aug 9, 2011)

*Emissions.....*



tojr1088 said:


> Disable whatever u have disconnected. And as far as having things unplugged you need to have the Vvt and evap solenoid plugged in or resistored no matter what


I get that part disable what u have disconnected, I guess I didn't state my question correctly.
Like I said I'm 100% new to this....
On the diagonostics page:

Evap leak detection pump diagonostics - On
SAI fault Detection - On
Evap diagnosis - Off
Evap diag 2 - On
SAI configutaion - On

My question is can I disable all.... I don't really want to mess something up by disabling the wrong thing.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Yes, just turn it all off


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## Andaloons (Apr 16, 2004)

We need a Maestro sub-forum. Vote!


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

injection correction will either add or subtract the preset injector pulse width at a given engine load/rpm. Your BVC is some what linear but to assume that...it would be a perfect world. So in the real world you have injection correction for non linear behavior. Charge turbulence, intake design and non linear injector latency at a given rpm or engine load will need to be accounted for in this map. Upgraded Maf's should be calibrated before hand so that the actual engine load is correct and you don't end up chasing your own tail. Obviously it is possible to go other routes but this is a good approach for most newbee's. Certain you've done all you could with the flowmeter correction then move to the injection correction map. Adjust this map by intervals of 1-5% (use logs to determine either to add or subtract), you as the tuner should use your best judgement as to how much increase/decrease is needed to hit target AFR. I would start by 2% intervals dependent on how far off the o2 correction is(also suggest forced open loop for calibrating these maps).


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> injection correction will either add or subtract the preset injector pulse width at a given engine load/rpm. Your BVC is some what linear but to assume that...it would be a perfect world. So in the real world you have injection correction for non linear behavior. Charge turbulence, intake design and non linear injector latency at a given rpm or engine load will need to be accounted for in this map. Upgraded Maf's should be calibrated before hand so that the actual engine load is correct and you don't end up chasing your own tail. Obviously it is possible to go other routes but this is a good approach for most newbee's. Certain you've done all you could with the flowmeter correction then move to the injection correction map. Adjust this map by intervals of 1-5% (use logs to determine either to add or subtract), you as the tuner should use your best judgement as to how much increase/decrease is needed to hit target AFR. I would start by 2% intervals dependent on how far off the o2 correction is(also suggest forced open loop for calibrating these maps).


Keep in mind most won't even be able to calibrate flowmeter. As they would need everything else stock to properly do it. Which for most is far from the case.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Actually assuming your TB/intake manifold/injectors are stock(or aftermarket already calibrated) but the maf is upgraded, you can properly calibrate for flowmeter correction in open loop. Its when you add variables all at once that effect fueling compensation tables its a bit more difficult to deal with if your not used to me7. As long as your throttle/airflow/injector maps are solid calibrating the flowmeter correction can be done. Complete calibration(to the entire map) isn't possible without a solid state test on a dyno.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Ok, I have stock TB, Intake manifold and the 630 inj. I use the flowmeter to get to my TT225maf profile. But also do I set my Main fuel, Injection correction and Flowmeter correction all to 1.0001 to get myself a steady A/F on in the mid 14's



Budsdubbin said:


> Actually assuming your TB/intake manifold/injectors are stock(or aftermarket already calibrated) but the maf is upgraded, you can properly calibrate for flowmeter correction in open loop. Its when you add variables all at once that effect fueling compensation tables its a bit more difficult to deal with if your not used to me7. As long as your throttle/airflow/injector maps are solid calibrating the flowmeter correction can be done. Complete calibration(to the entire map) isn't possible without a solid state test on a dyno.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

your tt225 maf profile in maestro is probably just a copy of flowmeter correction off the stock tt225 file. This saves tapp a bit of time. I'm sure he just popped in stock correction and compensated in other maps like injection correction for variances (charge routing/intake... bla bla bla) in whatever setup he was tuning to save time and produce a good enough base to work with. 

Now you will only set the multipliers to 1.0001 if you know they are nowhere near calibrated. For instance, if you don't have the stock injectors and cannot swap them back in or if the new injectors you have now aren't even close to being tuned for. So if you somehow know the 630
s are tuned for then you don't have to touch main fuel or injection correction. If you do change those multipliers to 1.0001 when they were already tuned you'll be compensating for nonlinear injector behavior in the flowmeter correction which is not optimal.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I got it, I will probably just run the base 630 TT225 file then as the injector correction is not all 1.0001 and the flow meter correction is also different. The one thing I don't get is the injector constant, they are different between a MAF and a Mafless file for the base 630cc files



Budsdubbin said:


> your tt225 maf profile in maestro is probably just a copy of flowmeter correction off the stock tt225 file. This saves tapp a bit of time. I'm sure he just popped in stock correction and compensated in other maps like injection correction for variances (charge routing/intake... bla bla bla) in whatever setup he was tuning to save time and produce a good enough base to work with.
> 
> Now you will only set the multipliers to 1.0001 if you know they are nowhere near calibrated. For instance, if you don't have the stock injectors and cannot swap them back in or if the new injectors you have now aren't even close to being tuned for. So if you somehow know the 630
> s are tuned for then you don't have to touch main fuel or injection correction. If you do change those multipliers to 1.0001 when they were already tuned you'll be compensating for nonlinear injector behavior in the flowmeter correction which is not optimal.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Its much better to calculate actual IC with actual fuel pressure. Either way IC shouldn't be that far off from calculated IC. I've done my fair share of playing with IC's the ltft was leading me to and it didn't get me very far. If you are constantly getting a o2 correction of 20% in low load and idle situations you may need adjusting in BVC/injection correction/or airflow&throttle position maps. Just because the ecu is adding injector pulse width doesn't always mean the IC is the problem area. Further down the line you'll realize going from a calculated IC of .4359 to .5395 the vehicle will run horribly. There simply shouldn't be that much of a variance. If you truly need to travel that far from calculated IC then you probably have a problem with mismatched injectors or fuel pressure issue. 

The way you know your IC is close is to take a log of WOT runs. Take a reading of your ltft after your pulls. If you see 20% in the lower rpm but it eventually goes close to zero under boost and to redline you will know that compensations will have to be done in the multipiers.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*FV-QR*

I'm almost ready to give up and just go with the Unitronic tune. Everytime I try something nothing seems t work, not even the base tune for the 630cc with a 225TTMaf. 

[email protected] 


Turbo: Precision HP5558 Billet DBB .63ar 4" in /2.5" out 
Base File: AWP STAGE3 TT225Maf 
Load input: MAF 
Injector Constant: 0.051721 
Injector Brand: Siemens 630cc 
Boost Control: AEM Electronic Boost Gauge/Controller 
Throttle body: Stock 
DV/BOV: Vent to Atmosphere


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

NJ1.8T said:


> I'm almost ready to give up and just go with the Unitronic tune. Everytime I try something nothing seems t work, not even the base tune for the 630cc with a 225TTMaf.
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> ...


 People are making this WAY more complicated than it has to be. Forget everyones mumbo jumbo steady state lab theory. 

The bottom line is this. Your setup is nothing out of the ordinary. You should be able to calculate injector constant and the car should behave and fuel fine. You should not have to stray far from the calculated value. 


If your IC is set and you are seeing trims swing from -10 part throttle to nearly +20% full throttle (like I've seen in multiple logs) something is not right. Your getting knock at low boost; something isn't right. 

You should be able to get your STFT & LTFT within 5%. O2 corrections during full throttle should be able to taken care of in the injection correction map. Pulses and abnormatlies shown in the MAF logs can be corrected within Flowmeter Correction 

The MAF tables are not stock. They are not "calibrated" by Eurodyne. You don't need a "stock injection map" to calibrate MAF correction. 

PM'd


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> The MAF tables are not stock. They are not "calibrated" by Eurodyne. You don't need a "stock injection map" to calibrate MAF correction.
> 
> PM'd


 Never did I say you "need" stock injection map. It is much easier to start with an accurate MAF reading then it is working with not only a different maf but a modified fueling system as well. 

Not to say that flowmeter correction is the source problem. I'm sure it can be fixed with injection correction, latency, idle torque or even possibly playing with minimum injector pulse. The point is MAF correction will need to be addressed regardless. Not everyone has the same charge routing or even intake (which can throw off readings, may not be a lot in some cases). 

As for the maf flowmeter correction how are you sure the values arn't taken from stock files? I cannot back this up myself because I don't have a single tt225 or s4 file in winOLS to compare but I would assume starting out with or even using those flowmeter corrections would be good enough for a base file(good enough is up for interpretation :laugh. 

Either way I'm in this to share, learn and progress the community. I'm open to get your take on things and have no issue if you disagree with me.:beer:


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Budsdubbin said:


> Never did I say you "need" stock injection map. It is much easier to start with an accurate MAF reading then it is working with not only a different maf but a modified fueling system as well.
> 
> Not to say that flowmeter correction is the source problem. I'm sure it can be fixed with injection correction, latency, idle torque or even possibly playing with minimum injector pulse. The point is MAF correction will need to be addressed regardless. Not everyone has the same charge routing or even intake (which can throw off readings, may not be a lot in some cases).
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: 

True, you never said that. I've seen others say it and I don't believe its true. Maybe in a lab setting but for what 95% of maestro users are doing in the real world it doesn't hold water. The flowmeter calibration should be sufficient. When I use DSMlink we simply smooth points; small jumps and small valleys created by turbulence. Its nothing major, quite minor smoothing. Usually 1 or 2 small log repeatable areas. As long as your injection constant is dialed in there should be no need to "calibrate" a MAF with the correct profile selected. 

I've looked at several ME7.5 flowmeter corrections bin (uknown cars) that are posted online and they don't look anything like Eurodynes maps. I don't think Eurodyne has calibrated anything truly; simply by the fact there are so many variances between the tunes. Similiar files using different fuelings, settings, corrections. 


Ugh, I had a very long response typed out and the interwebz ate it. I'll have more thoughts to add later on...


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I've been a victim of that, happened to me around 30 times and it always sucks :laugh:. But I'm still interested in what you have to say. Feel free to PM me if you don't feel the need to post it here. :thumbup:


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

Has anyone noticed that injector correction map has swapped axises when compared to FKKVS?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

What do you mean like the axis injection correction in maestro is swapped compared with stock FKKVS?


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> What do you mean like the axis injection correction in maestro is swapped compared with stock FKKVS?


 Yah. 

I haven't looked into it much but its worthwhile checking out. It wouldn't be the first map that has the axises defined incorrectly :facepalm:


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

hey guys, i'm facing some fuel issues. My car runs lean and went worst after the walbro inline fuel pump install. If you guys have a chance to take a look at my thread and give me a hand to figure out what's wrong because I don't want to take this thread out of course. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5948642-Sponcar-yes-this-is-my-build./page3 

AFR were around 15-16 before the inline fuel pump install and went to 12s for the first minute or two then goes up to 16+ based on my aem wideband gauge.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

sponcar said:


> hey guys, i'm facing some fuel issues. My car runs lean and went worst after the walbro inline fuel pump install. If you guys have a chance to take a look at my thread and give me a hand to figure out what's wrong because I don't want to take this thread out of course.
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5948642-Sponcar-yes-this-is-my-build./page3
> 
> AFR were around 15-16 before the inline fuel pump install and went to 12s for the first minute or two then goes up to 16+ based on my aem wideband gauge.


 I'm thinking you could have a vacuum leak


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Quick question every time I come to a complete stop after car stops the idle dips and so does AFR and car bogs down for a sec then bounces back up what could make It do that? Decel fuel?

Sent from my SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> I'm thinking you could have a vacuum leak


 In fact i had a boost leak in my map sensor flange but I fixed it. I did some more logs and car seems to keep running rich. 

If anyone wants to help me solve the issue, here are the logs i took this morning. 
There are some before and after solving the leak. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...oa0F0Tnc#gid=0 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...IVlpNc0E#gid=0 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...LYnd1cFE#gid=0


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

what is "RPM difference reset value" and "rpm limit fuel safety cut off" what do they affect?


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## GetBoosted84 (Apr 1, 2007)

Mr.Miranda said:


> Hey guys anyone with a 75mm TB file for EV14 840cc Injectors and GT30R?
> 
> Im running 25% on block 032. Please help. Thanks





CASHBY III said:


> Have you tried to tune anything yet?
> 
> First thing is you need to dial in Injector constant, Batter voltage compensation and min injector pulsewidth.
> 
> ...


 I tried these settings with my 01 AWM A4 on EV14 840cc injectors and my car ran insanely rich as a result. It would barely idle and stalled after lifting off the throttle. Went back to using the injector constant & min injector pulse settings that were on the base map (stage 3 AWM 830cc file) and my AFR is right where I want it to be. 

Granted my O2 correction is way off but the injectors at least look to be solid.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

I am baout to bbreak the car out of storage. i see some good changes out there. 

I have a quick question, a tried to go back to a MAF last year, and had alot of issues. I want to get it back up so i can run my water/meth. any suggestions?


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

This question is in regards to my current build. I just made the decision to build it for E85. I am using ID725's and will be running them @6bar to use them for the E85. I was going to use the 70mm SEM 725 file w/vvt. I was told I will need about 30% more fuel to do this. Besides changing the injector constant what else would need to be drastically changed for tuning it. 

Frankenturbo F23 
ID 725's 
dual surge tank wi/ bosch 044's 
AEB Head 
1.8 - 2.0L Stroker 
SEM Intake w/ 70mm throttle body


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Here's my most recent pulls done two days ago. My Lambda up top hit the low 11's and that has me worried. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdFR2MTRCTGgyeEktaWx1MzFNYWplU2c&usp=sharing 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdHdRUEVxZEU3MGdfblJ6MXpLNXd6Ymc&usp=sharing 

My setup is: 

Turbo: Precision HP5558 Billet DBB .63ar 4" in /2.5" out 
Base File: AWP STAGE3 TT225Maf 
Load input: TT 225 MAF 
Injector Constant: 0.051721 
Injector Brand: Siemens 630cc with 4bar FPR 
Boost Control: AEM Electronic Boost Gauge/Controller 
Throttle body: Stock 
DV/BOV: Vent to Atmosphere


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Maestro and Resistors 

Do you still need to resistor these items if you have Maestro? 

N80 valve (EVAP purge valve) 
N112 valve (SAI combi valve) 
N75, N249, VVT


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

IDC at 5600 is around 74% and at 6600 its 94%. Actual A/F drops to 14 after peak boost hits @ 22psi. Keep in mind target is still 11.8ish in these area's. There has to be a fueling issue, which I believe I messaged you about from the last time. Check fuel pressure!!! With a maxed out o2 correction like that without even coming close to target is pretty ridiculous. Unless your base file is changed up from the last time I looked at it. Make sure correct maf profile is chosen. 

Although just incase I'm overlooking anything send me your current file or if your working with a unmodified stage 3 base file I'll look that up. What are your BVC's set too?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

derekb727 said:


> Maestro and Resistors
> 
> Do you still need to resistor these items if you have Maestro?
> 
> ...


 The rest you can do without.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, I corected the Flowmeter for my MAF using the TT225 maf profile. Also using the 630cc TT225MAf file. I am also using a 4bar fuel pressure reg which I thought would help with the fuel issue. My bvc I haven't touched, I am just using the one thats in the 630cc TT225Maf file. 



Budsdubbin said:


> IDC at 5600 is around 74% and at 6600 its 94%. Actual A/F drops to 14 after peak boost hits @ 22psi. Keep in mind target is still 11.8ish in these area's. There has to be a fueling issue, which I believe I messaged you about from the last time. Check fuel pressure!!! With a maxed out o2 correction like that without even coming close to target is pretty ridiculous. Unless your base file is changed up from the last time I looked at it. Make sure correct maf profile is chosen.
> 
> Although just incase I'm overlooking anything send me your current file or if your working with a unmodified stage 3 base file I'll look that up. What are your BVC's set too?


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Budsdubbin said:


> The rest you can do without.


 What effects will you see if you just cut the wires and taped the ends?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Your fueling issue is supply pressure not the fact your running 3 bar. Problem was that you couldn't supply 3bar in the first place. Not the fact you needed to add more rail pressure. By adding a 4 bar you magnified the problem if the problem is a fuel supply issue. What pumps are you running?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I will put the 3 Bar FPR back into the car and run the file you sent me, the AWP_Stage3_630cc_TT225MAF and make to 3rd gear pulls with it and send it off to your email again for a check. I wanted to ask, isn't there a way of getting more fuel by playing with the Main Fuel Correction or the Injection Correction? Or even the Acceleration Fuel or Full Load Lambda? Also the BVC, it looks the same for alot of the tunes I have looked at on the Base Files. 





Budsdubbin said:


> Your fueling issue is supply pressure not the fact your running 3 bar. Problem was that you couldn't supply 3bar in the first place. Not the fact you needed to add more rail pressure. By adding a 4 bar you magnified the problem if the problem is a fuel supply issue. What pumps are you running?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Ok well regardless you have a fueling issue if the rest of the base file is untouched with your current IC, bvc, and maf profile; then your a/f shouldn't be anywhere near a actual lambda of 14 at 6600. Your o2 corrections maxxed out as well. You must have a fuel issue, and by that I mean there is something physically wrong with your fuel supply. 

I asked this once before what fuel pump or pumps are you running. I hope you at least have an inline. If you do then what kind? You have to put a fuel pressure gauge in there to see what its doing. As I said once before there is nothing I could think of other than a fuel supply issue. 

You can add as much as you want to the multipliers but your issue will not go away. 630cc @ 4bar on your setup running 22ish psi shouldn't be close to hitting a 94% injector duty cycle.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Budsdubbin said:


> Ok well regardless you have a fueling issue if the rest of the base file is untouched with your current IC, bvc, and maf profile; then your a/f shouldn't be anywhere near a actual lambda of 14 at 6600. Your o2 corrections maxxed out as well. You must have a fuel issue, and by that I mean there is something physically wrong with your fuel supply.
> 
> I asked this once before what fuel pump or pumps are you running. I hope you at least have an inline. If you do then what kind? You have to put a fuel pressure gauge in there to see what its doing. As I said once before there is nothing I could think of other than a fuel supply issue.
> 
> You can add as much as you want to the multipliers but your issue will not go away. 630cc @ 4bar on your setup running 22ish psi shouldn't be close to hitting a 94% injector duty cycle.


 Been reading and look at logs agreed. I can't for 100% say that its fuel but something hardware is amiss. But verifying fuel like Buds said is what to do next. All your logs from all tunes I see run -correction till 10psi then sweep positve very high. 

"Max O2 correction" should be 25%. What I think you are seeing is "o2 correction freezing". This usually happens when the ECU tries to target an out of unubtainable A/F. (Richer than .75) The tune would need traced, though. I've only seen this occur with fueling maps tuned with to much +enrichment that overshoot .75 
Either way the car totally loses control of target A/F when this happens. 

Other thing I notice is your load spec. caps out while your MAF continues to increase (over 100kg). Havent played with a MAF setup yet but maybe your VE and Opt.TQ/Fill Files need adjusted. 

Block 032 values would help as well BUT regardless these logs are worthless because of the 4bar and incorrectly calculated IC. 

And again. I'd turn the boost down before you melt something.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Fuel*

The Fuel Pump I have is rated at 400 bhp and I also have the Walbro inline but yet to connect that as my car was almost totalled last year and just got it back this January. Then I put in the Precision HP5558 Dual BB Billet. I am going to put the inline inside the engine bay over by the coolant bottle. I am also waiting on a heater hose kit for my car because of the 4" Inlet coupler that I have is pinching. 

While the car was getting repaired at the auto body, I put in the TSI Coilpacks, I cleaned my injectors, replaced fuel filter and changed spark plugs. By the way, what's a good gapping for a BT Setup? 

If the fuel pump is rated good for 400 bhp and say I only want a strong car with just great power at 300 HP. Is there a way to actually dial down Maestro so I don't go for as much HP as the car can handle? I know everyone wants a beast, 350, 375, 400, 4500, 500 HP but I would be satisfied with 300 HP at the Wheels. So with all the BIN Files, is there a way to just bring it down a notch so the fuel isn't strained as much? 




Budsdubbin said:


> Ok well regardless you have a fueling issue if the rest of the base file is untouched with your current IC, bvc, and maf profile; then your a/f shouldn't be anywhere near a actual lambda of 14 at 6600. Your o2 corrections maxxed out as well. You must have a fuel issue, and by that I mean there is something physically wrong with your fuel supply.
> 
> I asked this once before what fuel pump or pumps are you running. I hope you at least have an inline. If you do then what kind? You have to put a fuel pressure gauge in there to see what its doing. As I said once before there is nothing I could think of other than a fuel supply issue.
> 
> You can add as much as you want to the multipliers but your issue will not go away. 630cc @ 4bar on your setup running 22ish psi shouldn't be close to hitting a 94% injector duty cycle.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

derekb727 said:


> What effects will you see if you just cut the wires and taped the ends?


 What effects will you see if you did not resistor the n80 and just cut the connector off and sealed the wires?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

derekb727 said:


> What effects will you see if you did not resistor the n80 and just cut the connector off and sealed the wires?


 Dude you won't have fuel trims, your light load fueling will be ****ed up. The n80 plays an integal role behind the scenes in fueling. You need to maintain a complete circuit. So resisstor it or plug the n80 in and tuck it away unseen.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I only resistored 3 out of 4 of them. I know I get the Lambda readings in Block 032 so I should be good. Just wanted to make sure that wasn't a part of my fueling issues 



TooLFan46n2 said:


> Dude you won't have fuel trims, your light load fueling will be ****ed up. The n80 plays an integal role behind the scenes in fueling. You need to maintain a complete circuit. So resisstor it or plug the n80 in and tuck it away unseen.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Dude you won't have fuel trims, your light load fueling will be ****ed up. The n80 plays an integal role behind the scenes in fueling. You need to maintain a complete circuit. So resisstor it or plug the n80 in and tuck it away unseen.


 I am not 100% sure that I did not resistor them. So the way that I can check is by logging block 32 and and if it stays 0 then well, I did not resistor it?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Correct you need to resistor or plug the n80 back in. As for Nj's calculated IC yes its off should be around .043-.045. Although if there wasn't a hardware/fueling issue he would be richer so that shouldnt have anything to do with source problem. Just becuase its rated at 400 bhp that doesn't mean it can take supplying 3bar @ 22psi. What pump is it? Specifics is what I'm looking for. Try dialing back boost and see what happens but you will still have to check lone pressure while wot to see if pressure drops at that pressure. If it does you probably have to pick up a 044.


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## WickedWorksVW (May 15, 2005)

ok so i just got my tuner today and trying to figure this stuff out. 
I turned off my: 
SAI Fault detection 
EVAP leak detection 
EVAP DIAG 2 
SAI Configuration 

which is what i found to do by searching. Now i need to know how to turn off the O2 fault since i do not have a CAT. and as soon as i get a 4 bar FPR i'll be uploading the stg2 file which from i what i understand is the same requirments of REVO stg 2 programming (i.e. TIP, 3" turbo back, FMIC, 4 bar FPR, colder plugs and intake)


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Stage 2 file needs the 4 bar fpr. Everything else is gravy


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## WickedWorksVW (May 15, 2005)

What about the o2 fault for not having a CAT?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I have the AEM Tru-Boost Gauge and Controller and will dial back the Boost so I am only running about 15psi or so. The pump I got from USRT, I tried to paste the specifics of the pump but it gets all messed up in the post. So here's the link to the Pump I use.

http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10_45&products_id=1615



Budsdubbin said:


> Correct you need to resistor or plug the n80 back in. As for Nj's calculated IC yes its off should be around .043-.045. Although if there wasn't a hardware/fueling issue he would be richer so that shouldnt have anything to do with source problem. Just becuase its rated at 400 bhp that doesn't mean it can take supplying 3bar @ 22psi. What pump is it? Specifics is what I'm looking for. Try dialing back boost and see what happens but you will still have to check lone pressure while wot to see if pressure drops at that pressure. If it does you probably have to pick up a 044.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Maybe your at the limits of the pump?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, I have the Inline Walbro, but have to go out and get the Wire, Inline Fuse and also the Relay. I am probably going to install it the way USRT has diagramed on there website. Anyone have ideas of where the best place to put the inline pump at? I have seen it in the engine bay next to the coolant bottle and also by the fuel filter. Which if any places are better served for pumping fuel?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

You might be at the limits of the pump. like I said get a fuel gauge from harbor frieght(they are cheap) and see what the pressure does. The inline walbro may fix supply problems but they don't like over 20+psi. But there are some on here with good results. Still I'd check and make sure that fuel pressures an issue. I'm not one to just throw parts at a problem, it can complicate the real issue. Say you hook the inline up and realize there's still an issue? The inline pump can't support wot pressure at 22psi or what if you wired up the relay wrong? It would make determining the source issue a bit more difficult.


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## SteelHeadBC (Feb 3, 2010)

can someone have a look at this log file for me and give me some pointer on how come its pulling timing so bad? 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/63s38jxt7pyao15/2013_3_17-14.41.50.DataLog.csv


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Gotcha, Harbor Freight I come tomorrow. So with a 6an Fuel Rail which is setup different then the stock one. Where do I hook up the Gauge is it from the line closest to the windshield or the second closest line to the windshield?












Budsdubbin said:


> You might be at the limits of the pump. like I said get a fuel gauge from harbor frieght(they are cheap) and see what the pressure does. The inline walbro may fix supply problems but they don't like over 20+psi. But there are some on here with good results. Still I'd check and make sure that fuel pressures an issue. I'm not one to just throw parts at a problem, it can complicate the real issue. Say you hook the inline up and realize there's still an issue? The inline pump can't support wot pressure at 22psi or what if you wired up the relay wrong? It would make determining the source issue a bit more difficult.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

SteelHeadBC said:


> can someone have a look at this log file for me and give me some pointer on how come its pulling timing so bad?
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/63s38jxt7pyao15/2013_3_17-14.41.50.DataLog.csv


I will take a peek at them, however details of the setup would be great and even a .mstro

Edit: Holy balls thats a lot of timing pull, with no real advance. IDC is a little high, but you corrections are taking away fuel so its not like the car is leaning out. I would suggest checking for hardware failures or sensors


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

line that goes directly to your fuel rail not the one off your FPR.


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## SteelHeadBC (Feb 3, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> I will take a peek at them, however details of the setup would be great and even a .mstro
> 
> Edit: Holy balls thats a lot of timing pull, with no real advance. IDC is a little high, but you corrections are taking away fuel so its not like the car is leaning out. I would suggest checking for hardware failures or sensors


stock intake.big turbo inlet pipe. 3" turbo back . no cat . welbro inline . stock turbo KO3s . AWW engine .APR DV 

what could be wrong?


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## SteelHeadBC (Feb 3, 2010)

and 4bar FPR ... running the 4 Bar stage 2 Eurodyne File


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## SteelHeadBC (Feb 3, 2010)

SteelHeadBC said:


> stock intake.big turbo inlet pipe. 3" turbo back . no cat . welbro inline . stock turbo KO3s . AWW engine .APR DV
> 
> what could be wrong?


and front mount LOL forgot about that


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

SteelHeadBC said:


> stock intake.big turbo inlet pipe. 3" turbo back . no cat . welbro inline . stock turbo KO3s .* AWW engine* .APR DV
> 
> what could be wrong?



Funny enough mine is an AWW too, and it knocks like a mother****er too


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Funny enough mine is an AWW too, and it knocks like a mother****er too


My brothers stage 1 s4 file pulls 6 degrees as well. 6 is high but not that bad for a low horsepower car. I'd worry is if it was a high horsepower setup


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Dude this is with me already pulliing 4-5 degrees out of the map. My car on the boil runs either no advance or negative.

Seeing another car like this makes me wonder if there is a bug in the software, especially considering my car now says "hs" when flashing as it started out as a 'dl' ecu.

Last time I pulled my plugs the heat band was no where it shouldve been. And that was after a run with the car pulling -8* of timing on cylinder 2 with NO black specs or silver **** on them. Something isnt right.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Try messaging eurodyne. I had an instance where the ecu was stuck in a protected mode where it ran no advance and was always retarded. Worth a shot. If not make sure your running at least one step colder plug gapped down to .025-.028.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Im already runninf bkr7s at 0.24, with fresh coils.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Dude this is with me already pulliing 4-5 degrees out of the map. My car on the boil runs either no advance or negative.
> 
> Seeing another car like this makes me wonder if there is a bug in the software, especially considering my car now says "hs" when flashing as it started out as a 'dl' ecu.
> 
> Last time I pulled my plugs the heat band was no where it shouldve been. And that was after a run with the car pulling -8* of timing on cylinder 2 with NO black specs or silver **** on them. Something isnt right.


Are u getting proper air temp and coolant temp readings?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

From what i can tell, yes. The numbers jive with what I have found on the internet. Your local as well, so you know what the ambient temps have been like for them to coincide with my recorded IAT.

As a quick & dirty test, I ran the logger recently before I started the car. IAT and CLT match with 1*C

IAT has also been cleaned and replaced from a low mileage motor along with the entire fuel rail, fpr, and injectors. (60k)

I have a new knock sensor as well, just not installed.

I did just sent support an email with a current log+tune. Also offered to send a log with an unmolested stage 1 tune too and made it clear that I was NOT looking for tuning assistance, but rather technical in the sense that something may be wrong with the code that was flashed to the ecu.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> From what i can tell, yes. The numbers jive with what I have found on the internet. Your local as well, so you know what the ambient temps have been like for them to coincide with my recorded IAT.
> 
> As a quick & dirty test, I ran the logger recently before I started the car. IAT and CLT match with 1*C
> 
> ...


Send me some logs. [email protected]

As for the Ecu question. Once u flash the car the Ecu coding may change. Mine changed from ch to r


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> From what i can tell, yes. The numbers jive with what I have found on the internet. Your local as well, so you know what the ambient temps have been like for them to coincide with my recorded IAT.
> 
> As a quick & dirty test, I ran the logger recently before I started the car. IAT and CLT match with 1*C
> 
> ...


Where are u in ri.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

tojr1088 said:


> Where are u in ri.


East providence


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> East providence


How's ur 02 corrections


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> East providence


Also verify that u have switching active checked off in quick settings


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Not having switching active will cause the car to not advance at all. Had it happen to my friends car. Idk how but while flashing it somehow was never set to active and Chris tapp sent me a key to activate it.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

tojr1088 said:


> How's ur 02 corrections


On the last tune, -+1% during a 3rd gear WOT run. Thats using power enrichment, target filling and optimum torque. I cant tell if the tune is too aggressive or its an 'old car' (probably both) issue, so the max ve is reduced considerably. Either way, if corrections are reasonable, a poor performing fuel pump should not be an issue



tojr1088 said:


> Also verify that u have switching active checked off in quick settings


This is a K03 car, pretty sure it was only supposed to be on for big turbo binaries. I can get the car to run 12* of advance just fine. Problem is cylinders pull x* of timing, so I reduce the timing either with quicktune or in the map itself, and it still pulls the same amount of timing no matter what.0 



tojr1088 said:


> Not having switching active will cause the car to not advance at all. Had it happen to my friends car. Idk how but while flashing it somehow was never set to active and Chris tapp sent me a key to activate it.












Anyways now I re-flashed the stage 1 base tune, reduced the max-ve to a reasonable level.

Here is the log:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgMf58LTPUUodGdCdGw4OVp6N2lHc3dzQXdPTzdWaUE&usp=sharing

Here is a quick pic of the timing pull:










Same amount of pull with my last log, except there is some advance this time


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> On the last tune, -+1% during a 3rd gear WOT run. Thats using power enrichment, target filling and optimum torque. I cant tell if the tune is too aggressive or its an 'old car' (probably both) issue, so the max ve is reduced considerably. Either way, if corrections are reasonable, a poor performing fuel pump should not be an issue
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Judging by the logs I think u are a little too lean before 5k rpm. Idk tho since it is only stage 1. But honestly those knock values and timing advance look fine. Like I said my brothers s4 pulls 6 degrees on occasion.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

If the stage 1 is pulling too much look into maf sensor possibly. Is it new?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

My car pulls at least 2 degrees on every pull on my big turbo setup. Sometimes it can pull 4 degrees but that's nothing to worry about. Anything last 6 degrees is a little bad but almost every aggressive tune out there will always pull a little. Cause ur tuning to the limit. And I found any stage 1 file in maestro to be a pretty aggressive well tuned file


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## Donna591 (Mar 25, 2013)

I have the program that is not the case 
you missunderstand the graph map is not adjustable but the Number map makes all the changes to the graph map


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

tojr1088 said:


> Judging by the logs I think u are a little too lean before 5k rpm. Idk tho since it is only stage 1. But honestly those knock values and timing advance look fine. Like I said my brothers s4 pulls 6 degrees on occasion.


I lowered the egt threshold to richen it up a bit, so we will see what happens


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> I lowered the egt threshold to richen it up a bit, so we will see what happens


Try using full load lambda. I don't think stage 1 should be using power enrichment. What does ur full load lambda fueling look like in comparison to power enrichment


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

tojr1088 said:


> Try using full load lambda. I don't think stage 1 should be using power enrichment. What does ur full load lambda fueling look like in comparison to power enrichment


Just as an unmolested stage 1 tune does. I lowered the max ve, and smoothed out the curve because the violent torque spike is annoying, and my injector duty cycle was maxed out.

What I dont like about using either full load lambda, even with the lowered EGT threshold, is the unreal fuel curve.

Its silly that a K03 that already pours out magma at high boost is running sometimes stoich to 5000 rpm then dumps fuel, but on another run starts dumping fuel at 3200 rpm. Inconsistent fueling leads to not being able to determine what the cause of knock is.


Edit: If anyone has a 4bar laying around PM me

One thing I am going to stop doing is making multiple changes, do one thing at a time and see what happens. Impatience really is a bitch.

BTW tojr, DynoTech is having an open house in a few weeks.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Just as an unmolested stage 1 tune does. I lowered the max ve, and smoothed out the curve because the violent torque spike is annoying, and my injector duty cycle was maxed out.
> 
> What I dont like about using either full load lambda, even with the lowered EGT threshold, is the unreal fuel curve.
> 
> ...


Word.

And your fuel issue may be the egt threshold too high. The egt on a non stock exhaust is hard for the car to tell so it may only sometimes be activating full load lambda. Try rich ending up power enrichment or full load lambda whatever one u wish. And see what happens.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

tojr1088 said:


> Word.
> 
> And your fuel issue may be the egt threshold too high. The egt on a non stock exhaust is hard for the car to tell so it may only sometimes be activating full load lambda. Try rich ending up power enrichment or full load lambda whatever one u wish. And see what happens.


As from Eurodyne, it's set at 400° C. I dropped mine to 200 so I will see what happens.

I mean the car rips pretty good, but I don't like what I see in the data stream.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> As from Eurodyne, it's set at 400° C. I dropped mine to 200 so I will see what happens.
> 
> I mean the car rips pretty good, but I don't like what I see in the data stream.


I really wouldn't worry about the knock. It's really not high for a stage 1 car


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Just richen it up a little befor 4500 rpm or where ur torque sets in


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

tojr1088 said:


> I really wouldn't worry about the knock. It's really not high for a stage 1 car





tojr1088 said:


> Just richen it up a little befor 4500 rpm or where ur torque sets in


Well I have a treadstone fmic on the way in along with a cdm piping kit. IM hoping with that, a 4 bar fpr and maybe install my meth kit I will see 200whp when dynotech has their open house in a few weeks.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Well I have a treadstone fmic on the way in along with a cdm piping kit. IM hoping with that, a 4 bar fpr and maybe install my meth kit I will see 200whp when dynotech has their open house in a few weeks.


Ill be there hoping for 400 whp lol


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

tojr1088 said:


> Ill be there hoping for 400 whp lol


I've got a 3071 and some other things too, but I want to get the hang of tuning maestro first before I go for big power.

I'll bring the hairspray this time in case your couplers blow off again.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

tojr1088 said:


> Ill be there hoping for 400 whp lol


 be stretching for 500whp :laugh:


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> I've got a 3071 and some other things too, but I want to get the hang of tuning maestro first before I go for big power.
> 
> I'll bring the hairspray this time in case your couplers blow off again.


Got the hairspray in the glove box lmao. Coupler hasn't come off since I got the nice one from dyno tech.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

tojr1088 said:


> Ill be there hoping for 400 whp lol





Budsdubbin said:


> be stretching for 500whp :laugh:


Seems this turned into d!ck measuring.

NJ1.8t

I believe it should go feed-->rail-->regulator--->return


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## frakay100 (May 18, 2011)

> Anyways now I re-flashed the stage 1 base tune, reduced the max-ve to a reasonable level.
> 
> Here is the log:
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UE&usp=sharing


From your logs its looks like your thermostat is stuck open. Have you had an codes thrown for this yet? I would replace the thermostat and then do another pull


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Thanks Dave



> NJ1.8t I believe it should go feed-->rail-->regulator--->return


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

frakay100 said:


> From your logs its looks like your thermostat is stuck open. Have you had an codes thrown for this yet? I would replace the thermostat and then do another pull


Correct on the tstat. I didn't replace it when I should have, and truthfully didn't know where the hell it was when I first did the timing belt etc.

Either way I don't think I should effect the fueling or timing at all, corrections for that end at like 50°c.

One thing I have noticed, and maybe Ctapp is onto something. When I try richening up the car around peak torque all it does is knock like crazy.

Having a car run 14.7 for most of the run with minimal amounts of knock flies in the face of tuning principal I've ever experienced or read. That lean and 20psi spikes coming from a magma pump does not make sense, or was this.engine from the get go made to run that lean?


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Dave926 said:


> Correct on the tstat. I didn't replace it when I should have, and truthfully didn't know where the hell it was when I first did the timing belt etc.
> 
> Either way I don't think I should effect the fueling or timing at all, corrections for that end at like 50°c.
> 
> ...


Yes by original design its pretty much programmed to run 14.7 at all times until high EGT's are detected.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, Went to switch my Fuel Pressure Adapter and Regulator from the drivers side to the passengers side on my BBM fuel rail. I look up and notice that 3 of the Turbo to Up Pipe studs are gone. Looks like they worked themselves loose and fell out. If it's not one thing it's another thats for sure!


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Well, that'll explain a few things no?


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Dude you won't have fuel trims, your light load fueling will be ****ed up. The n80 plays an integal role behind the scenes in fueling. You need to maintain a complete circuit. So resisstor it or plug the n80 in and tuck it away unseen.



Ok, so I do not have the n80 anymore and what I did was just clip everything off and tape it into the wiring harness. Now it looks like I am going to be on a hunt for the wires. Is there any way to tell what color the wires are suppose to be. Does anyone know off hand? 

Thanks for the help gents!


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

derekb727 said:


> Ok, so I do not have the n80 anymore and what I did was just clip everything off and tape it into the wiring harness. Now it looks like I am going to be on a hunt for the wires. Is there any way to tell what color the wires are suppose to be. Does anyone know off hand?
> 
> Thanks for the help gents!


Probably need a bentley, I'm not sure on the A4, my AWP wiring was pin #1 blue/green pin #2 red/purple


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

when releasing the throttle and let the car roll,lambda actual goes as high as 4.02. i know it supposed to be high but is that high normal?

and then

when pressing the clutch(i.e. changing gears) my lambda requested goes to 0.80

So example: When driving on freeway 120km/h and lambda is al good,then i have to take an exit with a turn so i release the throttle only,actual lambda goes to 4.02,requested 1.05..

then i have to downshift so i press the clutch and requested goes to 0.80 for couple seconds??and actual follows and goes as far as 0.73!

it maybe hardware related,{going to check,again,for leaks},but i doubt it.

requesting 0.80 seems strange..this is the base 630non vvt file with imported alpha-n and aitflow bins from vvt 80mm sem.

Setup:[email protected],3071,rmr small port,75mm r32tb,4.2L MAF

I tried adjusting decel fuel but that dind't helped(subtracted 10%)

I remember reading about this problem when going through all the 100+ pages,but never saw an solution for this.

any help would be great!:thumbup:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

It is perfectly normal for actual to drop to 4.02(lean) on decel. Once you throttle back on to cruise it will drop to whatever request is; or if you depress clutch and pull it out of gear(neutral) it should drop to requested lambda once engine speed lowers to idle.

as for your .8 situations it is normal to see request richen up to cool your cat(if ya have one) or cool cylinder temps. The drop of your actual a/f to .73 is a bit rich which is something that needs to be addressed in one of your multiplyers (either injection correction or decel map).


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Fuel Pump Harness*

Just wanted to ask if anyone has an extra inline fuel pump harness for the engine bay or where can I get one besides USRT as they are sold out. 

I am running lean so I need the extra fuel before I blow up. I turned my boost down to about 10psi for now till I hook up the walbro inline.

Thanks for the help and assistance.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I figured that was your issue:laugh:. You can go into any parts store and buy a 4 pin relay, look up various stock fuel pump relays. I don't remember the part number I used or I would provide that. Then buy some wire (don't remember the gauge I used but that info can be found with a bit of searching). Then just download usrallyteams inline fuel pump installation instructions from their website. Its pretty straight forward. Spade female terminals will be needed to connect your relay.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> I figured that was your issue:laugh:. You can go into any parts store and buy a 4 pin relay, look up various stock fuel pump relays. I don't remember the part number I used or I would provide that. Then buy some wire (don't remember the gauge I used but that info can be found with a bit of searching). Then just download usrallyteams inline fuel pump installation instructions from their website. Its pretty straight forward. Spade female terminals will be needed to connect your relay.


10 gauge wire should be sufficient. Also, instead of using female spades, because ive done it and its a little sketchy at best, is grab a relay socket. 4 pin as buds said, and if anything radio shack has 30A and i think 40A relays as well.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> I figured that was your issue:laugh:. You can go into any parts store and buy a 4 pin relay, look up various stock fuel pump relays. I don't remember the part number I used or I would provide that. Then buy some wire (don't remember the gauge I used but that info can be found with a bit of searching). Then just download usrallyteams inline fuel pump installation instructions from their website. Its pretty straight forward. Spade female terminals will be needed to connect your relay.


Most electronic stores or radio shack will have a standard 40 am relay with socket. Comes with wires off the socket just be sure to use the required fuse.


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> It is perfectly normal for actual to drop to 4.02(lean) on decel. Once you throttle back on to cruise it will drop to whatever request is; or if you depress clutch and pull it out of gear(neutral) it should drop to requested lambda once engine speed lowers to idle.
> 
> as for your .8 situations it is normal to see request richen up to cool your cat(if ya have one) or cool cylinder temps. The drop of your actual a/f to .73 is a bit rich which is something that needs to be addressed in one of your multiplyers (either injection correction or decel map).


Thanks for clearing that up,i did tried lowering decel map 10% but that had no effect..im going to try lowering it more.:thumbup:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

robbyrr said:


> Thanks for clearing that up,i did tried lowering decel map 10% but that had no effect..im going to try lowering it more.:thumbup:


If you havn't seen any positive changes due to your reduction in decel map then it is likely your problem won't be solved in that map. Try injection correcion using the trace feature and a log of that event then make the appropriate changes. If that doesn't solve the issue then you may have incorrect BVC or IC values. Other than that and a possible hardware issue I can't think of anything else.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

was thinking of going with 830cc injectors with my 3071 build and then taking it to a dyno tuner........if I could find one near Vermont


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> If you havn't seen any positive changes due to your reduction in decel map then it is likely your problem won't be solved in that map. Try injection correcion using the trace feature and a log of that event then make the appropriate changes. If that doesn't solve the issue then you may have incorrect BVC or IC values. Other than that and a possible hardware issue I can't think of anything else.


First thing i did was calculated the IC en put in the factory BVC,and then drove for 50 min each time, and adjusted the values using the block 32 trims..but that lead me to an IC of 0,061938..rather high compared to the calculated 0,051837..trims are now close to 0..within 1 to 2%.

Is it normal to have such a difference between calculated IC and actual?..or do i stay close to the calculated,and adjust other maps like injection correction map?

another question..my idle maf readings are arround 10g/s..isn't that a bit too high?..it's a brand new maf,and i selected the appropriate profile(4,2L)..do i have to correct it in flowmeter correction?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Thanks I really appreciate it. Also don't I need a 5th wire to run into the cabin so I can connect it to the pole above the dead pedal? So then I need a 5 wire connector so I have two wires going to the pump, two going to the battery and one going inside to underneath panel. Does anyone know what pole I connect it to underneath above the dead pedal?



Budsdubbin said:


> I figured that was your issue:laugh:. You can go into any parts store and buy a 4 pin relay, look up various stock fuel pump relays. I don't remember the part number I used or I would provide that. Then buy some wire (don't remember the gauge I used but that info can be found with a bit of searching). Then just download usrallyteams inline fuel pump installation instructions from their website. Its pretty straight forward. Spade female terminals will be needed to connect your relay.


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## ljones125 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Basemap with 30 psi???*

So I bought my maestro kit awhile ago (APB) and just got around to messing with it. I flashed the basemap for K04 85mm hitchi 750


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

robbyrr said:


> First thing i did was calculated the IC en put in the factory BVC,and then drove for 50 min each time, and adjusted the values using the block 32 trims..but that lead me to an IC of 0,061938..rather high compared to the calculated 0,051837..trims are now close to 0..within 1 to 2%.
> 
> Is it normal to have such a difference between calculated IC and actual?..or do i stay close to the calculated,and adjust other maps like injection correction map?
> 
> another question..my idle maf readings are arround 10g/s..isn't that a bit too high?..it's a brand new maf,and i selected the appropriate profile(4,2L)..do i have to correct it in flowmeter correction?


I see this happen where people use LTFT's at a cruise to dial in IC value. You should be doing a WOT run and based on that correct IC. If you see that with your .051 IC o2 correction at WOT under boost is close to 0% I would look into injection correction or flowmeter correction instead of IC.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

one to the battery (on the switch side), one going to the pump (switch side), one going to the stock pump fuse above the dead pedal and one to ground either back to the battery or on the frame. Why would there need to be a 5th wire?


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> one to the battery (on the switch side), one going to the pump (switch side), one going to the stock pump fuse above the dead pedal and one to ground either back to the battery or on the frame. Why would there need to be a 5th wire?


If this is for the inline fuel pump, check my thread page 3. I have some goo explanation on how I wired up mine. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5948642-Sponcar-yes-this-is-my-build./page3


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I thought there was a fifth wire since I already have a Genesis Intake pump and by adding the walbro, won't that be sucking to much power and blowing fuses or relays?



Budsdubbin said:


> one to the battery (on the switch side), one going to the pump (switch side), one going to the stock pump fuse above the dead pedal and one to ground either back to the battery or on the frame. Why would there need to be a 5th wire?


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

just got my motor running again and i'm getting a small hesitation for a split second when i get on the throttle, i think it might be related to the VVT activating, any ideas? other than that it's running great


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

NJ1.8T said:


> I thought there was a fifth wire since I already have a Genesis Intake pump and by adding the walbro, won't that be sucking to much power and blowing fuses or relays?


No, use the power ON signal to the Genesis pump in your factory harness as a signal to turn on the relay that powers the inline pump. Relays on draw `~.5A at best, so thats nothing to be concerned about in regards to overpowering the stock harness/fuse. Other side (high current) of the relay is whats connected to the battery

On another note, I tried turning on the Power Enrichment Map, with essentially no other changes.

Here is what happened

Power Enrichment ON:




















Power Enrichment OFF



















Seems with the Power Enrichment off, I am getting more timing and less knock. Dont know how that is happening. Even driving the car, it has less bite.

Anyways here is the log with the PE on:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgMf58LTPUUodDRWVHRLdnpiTlpWcDVJeUdwWWZZeEE&usp=sharing

PE Off:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgMf58LTPUUodE9vN25xekdlcl9jekUydGZOVFo1T1E&usp=sharing


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> First thing i did was calculated the IC en put in the factory BVC,and then drove for 50 min each time, and adjusted the values using the block 32 trims..but that lead me to an IC of 0,061938..rather high compared to the calculated 0,051837..trims are now close to 0..within 1 to 2%.
> 
> Is it normal to have such a difference between calculated IC and actual?..or do i stay close to the calculated,and adjust other maps like injection correction map?
> 
> another question..my idle maf readings are arround 10g/s..isn't that a bit too high?..it's a brand new maf,and i selected the appropriate profile(4,2L)..do i have to correct it in flowmeter correction?


Sure it's not idling at 10 kg/hr. default logger value is not in g/s


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> I see this happen where people use LTFT's at a cruise to dial in IC value. You should be doing a WOT run and based on that correct IC. If you see that with your .051 IC o2 correction at WOT under boost is close to 0% I would look into injection correction or flowmeter correction instead of IC.


That's indeed what I did..a lot more cruise than wot..thanks for pointing that out.

What is the best way for adjusting the flowmeter correction? With the tracing option?


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> Sure it's not idling at 10 kg/hr. default logger value is not in g/s


Your right, sorry,typo 

But that is too high @idle right.. from what I read,it supposed to be around 4-5?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> Your right, sorry,typo
> 
> But that is too high @idle right.. from what I read,it supposed to be around 4-5?


4 to 5 grams per second. Mine idles at around 10 kg/hr which is about 3 grams per second


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

robbyrr said:


> That's indeed what I did..a lot more cruise than wot..thanks for pointing that out.
> 
> What is the best way for adjusting the flowmeter correction? With the tracing option?


Make sure IC is in check (you'll see o2 correction near 0% under full boost WOT). Take a average of the values from the cruise and trace your flowmeter, make a judgement on how much to add or subtract from the multiplier. I would make small changes based on the correction value. 

Multipliers can be adjusted using the trace feature. Other maps like optimal torque, throttle vrs air, alpha N and target filling you cannot simply just go off of o2 corrections.


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> 4 to 5 grams per second. Mine idles at around 10 kg/hr which is about 3 grams per second


ah,all good then.



budsdubbin said:


> Make sure IC is in check (you'll see o2 correction near 0% under full boost WOT). Take a average of the values from the cruise and trace your flowmeter, make a judgement on how much to add or subtract from the multiplier. I would make small changes based on the correction value.
> 
> Multipliers can be adjusted using the trace feature. Other maps like optimal torque, throttle vrs air, alpha N and target filling you cannot simply just go off of o2 corrections.


Im going to set back my calculated IC,and tune for WOT..and correct cruise with injection correction,and see where it gets me.

Do i have this right?: Since i have a maf,the ecu doenst uses alpha-n and/or Throttle Position Vs. Airflow(unless your outside the maf's reading range?)
I'm curious if i have to tune those maps aswell,even if i have a maf.i assumed not but..


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this....
I would like to know if with the updated Maestro Tuning Suite is there the possibility to load 2 files for 2 different fuels and to be able to use the CC stalk to switch as with the preMaestro years back?
I would upgrade on the spot.


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## WickedWorksVW (May 15, 2005)

WickedWorksVW said:


> ok so i just got my tuner today and trying to figure this stuff out.
> I turned off my:
> SAI Fault detection
> EVAP leak detection
> ...


Anyone? Still need to get rid of the o2 fault.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Turn off rear o2 diag :screwy:


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

What seems to be the consensus here with the n75 in Maestro... 

keep it? or get rid of it? 

I've been currently running with just the hallman pro boost controller. Its not horrible...but it isn't the smoothest operation in the world. 

just curious...had been doing reading into using the n75 above MAP sensor limits, etc. and was wondering whether it would be worth plugging back into the system and running the hallman MBC in parallel with it...

Joe


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## WickedWorksVW (May 15, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> Turn off rear o2 diag :screwy:


Thanks. I'm just a noob to the tuner and couldn't find exactly what I needed to disable.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> What seems to be the consensus here with the n75 in Maestro...
> 
> keep it? or get rid of it?
> 
> ...


definately run the n75 parralel with the mbc. you will love the change.

i dont have a mbc i have an ebc.....currently im working on getting the car running good without spikes on the n75 but its been tough.....i also want the option to run past 22 psi when wanted so ive been ironing out the n75 then ill incorporate the ebc as well


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

Will do that and make those changes this weekend. 
Now, in doing so the Hallman isn't going to control boost pressure anymore...namely onset/spikes. Is there anything I can do out of the box in plumbing it back inline to smooth things out and pull my 25psi? 

Forge wastegate is in the mix there too...

Joe


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> Will do that and make those changes this weekend.
> Now, in doing so the Hallman isn't going to control boost pressure anymore...namely onset/spikes. Is there anything I can do out of the box in plumbing it back inline to smooth things out and pull my 25psi?
> 
> Forge wastegate is in the mix there too...
> ...


Not sure man. I've been working on that myself. It's tough to dial it in. U can def try. There's a thread on eurodyne regarding boost over 22 psi on n75. I'd leave the mbc set at 25 psi then keep messing with boost maps so the n75 meets it. U may have to increase your max ve substantially so the car requests higher boost than it can read. And u may have to raise boost pid and n75 duty maps. I'm sure it'll work out


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

Reinstalled and tee'd the Hallman in parallel with the n75. So hella smooth now...forgot how big a difference it made.

Current...max sustained was 21.3psi with the controller set where it was before. However, made a couple adjustments on the forge wastegate...

Then...to look at the maps...

Joe


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

rogerius said:


> I don't know if this is the right place to ask this....
> I would like to know if with the updated Maestro Tuning Suite is there the possibility to load 2 files for 2 different fuels and to be able to use the CC stalk to switch as with the preMaestro years back?
> I would upgrade on the spot.



I guess I need to read the121 pages first! Nobody can answer this?^^


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

rogerius said:


> I guess I need to read the121 pages first! Nobody can answer this?^^


Not possible.


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## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

*log help*

can i get some help reading these logs, im having some trouble smoothing out normal driving. i recently did a 2.0stroker and just got my car running and its hesitating when under light load but if i put more throttle it kinda pushes thru it. also i have very low oil pressure about 15psi warm/idle and @2000rpm under 25psi warm, but when im driving normal oil pressure is above 50psi. not sure if the oil pressure is related to the hesitation? but here are the logs thanks for any help

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2rCumnFN5VbTVpPYUZmd0I2c2s/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2rCumnFN5VbVUswRk8tMGlPdWM/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2rCumnFN5VbVV9kZTFNaFYwU0k/edit?usp=sharing


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Haven't been playing with Maestro for awhile and have a random question for you guys.

I was running my Maestro AWP ECU in my TT for about a year. It was a swapped ECU setup but all I initially had to do to get it to run was flash it with an AWP file and turn the key.

TT came off the road and I popped it in my A4, mostly to pass inspection at the time and I didn't feel like paying for another tune. The A4's immobilizer would kick in until I checked the box "defeat immobilzer" and used a code provided by Eurodyne support. Ran like a charm.

ECU is back in the TT. Car won't turn on at all. Can flash and read the ECU but cannot do anything else. In the quick tune settings the Defeat immobilzer box is checked on. I'm considering turning it off as that's how it always worked in that car.

I know this is backwards thinking as most things are with Eurodyne but has anyone done anything similar or had experience with that check box?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Getting ready to try some 3rd and 4th gear pulls on my Jetta. I finally made my own harness with 4 wires. Power to battery with inline fuse, ground to the battery, power to the pump and then a yellow wire in which I will install to the 87 pole Diesel relay. How does this sound? oh also I will have another ground from the ump to a good metal ground on the car. So I just want to make sure since I have the Genesis Mk4 Fuel Pump in my tank already capable of 400bhp which is in the neighborhood of the low 300HP. I figured now with the Walbro inline setup I won't have to worry about running lean when I advance a few of the Maestro Setting.

So just for clairfication, pole for the Diesel is where I should put the signal wire and not actually on the fuel pump relay as two pumps would blow that relay.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> Getting ready to try some 3rd and 4th gear pulls on my Jetta. I finally made my own harness with 4 wires. Power to battery with inline fuse, ground to the battery, power to the pump and then a yellow wire in which I will install to the 87 pole Diesel relay. How does this sound? oh also I will have another ground from the ump to a good metal ground on the car. So I just want to make sure since I have the Genesis Mk4 Fuel Pump in my tank already capable of 400bhp which is in the neighborhood of the low 300HP. I figured now with the Walbro inline setup I won't have to worry about running lean when I advance a few of the Maestro Setting.
> 
> So just for clairfication, pole for the Diesel is where I should put the signal wire and not actually on the fuel pump relay as two pumps would blow that relay.


I put the signal on the relay screw for fuel pump. Shouldn't matter signal wire doesn't have much current


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Inline Pump Installed and then 3rd Gear Pulls*

Well, Installed the inline fuel pump to help with the leaning out situation. Here are the three pulls I did today after installing the pump.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdEVfUF92YjdDWC1hcURIX2xqaWIwSFE&usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdGJqd1FicTdDS1JWRHRscEwzOWZ6cHc&usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdDZhSHkwNnlCZ1VDZ1FRVFMxOFRQMVE&usp=sharing


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I don't see a lean condition.... I see lambda request at 11.8 and a actual of around 11.9 From 5500-when the pull stops..... Whats the issue?:screwy: Injection time is low. I see some serious timing being pulled to redline. 

14.7 is stiocheometeric. 
11 would be richer
18 would be leaner

11.5-12 is what you want to see at full boost
13- 14 would be too lean

So fueling needs to be tweaked for minor o2 correction and timing needs to be dialed back.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Agreed. Fueling looks deceny minus the corrections. 

In regards to the timing, I would say below 4500 you could add some timing, and from there pull a few degrees


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I did the pulls wen it was about 85 outside so not sure how much that affected the pull. So I need to drop down in timing. What do you mean by injection time is low? Does that have to do with injection correction? So how could I tweak fueling? and set the timing back?




Budsdubbin said:


> I don't see a lean condition.... I see lambda request at 11.8 and a actual of around 11.9 From 5500-when the pull stops..... Whats the issue?:screwy: Injection time is low. I see some serious timing being pulled to redline.
> 
> 14.7 is stiocheometeric.
> 11 would be richer
> ...


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> What do you mean by injection time is low?


Injection time, second to last before actual lambda..

Inj. Time X rpm/1200=inj.dutycycle..and yours is low i.e around 60% .thats low,which is à good thing,so Your not running out of fuel that way.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Injection time is low so idc looks good. Fueling needs to be dialed in but first you'll probably have to lower timing advance in the upper part of your power band.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I did te tracing and also dropped down all of the -6.00 by -3.00 and then there were a few -4.50 that I dropped down -1.50
So I did that for my timing and will do a few more pulls to see where the timing stands. But as far as fuel, what do I do there. Do I do the same thing, tracing and then apply then save?




Budsdubbin said:


> Injection time is low so idc looks good. Fueling needs to be dialed in but first you'll probably have to lower timing advance in the upper part of your power band.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Trace your MAF correction map. Use average values.


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

time delay for power enrichment now also available for the AWP non vvt maps

big:thumbup: to eurodyne


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

How do I trace my MAF Correction Map? Would that be the FlowMeter Correction. What do I do if I see say 7.65 and also cells that are -3.50

I did the tracing for the pump gas timing map and lower some of the cells so they rear -2.25 instead of -6.00 and the ones that were down low reading 0.00 I added some timing by putting in 1.50



Budsdubbin said:


> Trace your MAF correction map. Use average values.


----------



## ThatredHead (Apr 16, 2012)

New to the Eurodyne section and trying to learn but need some advice. Have a 225 TT with a AWP wideband swap and N80,N112,N249 and VVT all with resistors. Stock currently new plugs and coils installed. Have tried the AWP stage 1 file with changes to Injector constant and MAF and also to AWP stage 3 file and both are pulling fuel like crazy Idle isn't perfect but not horrible but impossible to drive. Trying to figure out where to start looking to fix this and get it running. Thanks

log at idle

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Arx4C1eXU9a-dEp3U0tjYS1hMEhLQlRuNWs2RTUzaGc&usp=sharing


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

ThatredHead said:


> New to the Eurodyne section and trying to learn but need some advice. Have a 225 TT with a AWP wideband swap and N80,N112,N249 and VVT all with resistors. Stock currently new plugs and coils installed. Have tried the AWP stage 1 file with changes to Injector constant and MAF and also to AWP stage 3 file and both are pulling fuel like crazy Idle isn't perfect but not horrible but impossible to drive. Trying to figure out where to start looking to fix this and get it running. Thanks
> 
> log at idle
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Arx4C1eXU9a-dEp3U0tjYS1hMEhLQlRuNWs2RTUzaGc&usp=sharing


Are Tt injectors different than awp stock injectors. Did u use an awp file with with 225tt maf specified. ? A lot could be wrong.


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> Are Tt injectors different than awp stock injectors. Did u use an awp file with with 225tt maf specified. ? A lot could be wrong.


Also the log u posted isn't able to be accessed


----------



## ThatredHead (Apr 16, 2012)

Fixed the link my bad
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Arx4C1eXU9a-dEp3U0tjYS1hMEhLQlRuNWs2RTUzaGc&usp=sharing

And yes the injectors are different then the stock awp file but I have modified the injector constant and maf map to compensate for this and also the stage 3 file based off the 225 components. 

Vehicle ran fine before the wideband swap but I've double checked everything I touched and haven't found anything yet. I flashed it and drove it Monday a little and seemed to run ok just no fuel trims as I had not installed SAI resistor yet. When first starting now it idles and runs ok and then gets worse I believe when switching to closed loop. If I'm reading it correctly that is I think its over fueling and trying to see what could cause this.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

ThatredHead said:


> Fixed the link my bad
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Arx4C1eXU9a-dEp3U0tjYS1hMEhLQlRuNWs2RTUzaGc&usp=sharing
> 
> And yes the injectors are different then the stock awp file but I have modified the injector constant and maf map to compensate for this and also the stage 3 file based off the 225 components.
> ...


Don't use a stage 3 file. Use a stage 1 awp. Use 225 maf profile. Adjust injector constant and bvc table.


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

tojr1088 said:


> Don't use a stage 3 file. Use a stage 1 awp. Use 225 maf profile. Adjust injector constant and bvc table.


And of course if you are using a stage 3 file verify that the main fuel corrections and injection corrections are set to zero


----------



## ThatredHead (Apr 16, 2012)

I want to use the AWP stage 1 just used the stg3 as test to see if it had any effect and it didn't. I have changed to the 225 MAF profile and also the 225 injector profile. Kind of makes me think hardware issue but it ran flawless before the tune.

Any way to differentiate between hardware and software issue?


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

ThatredHead said:


> I want to use the AWP stage 1 just used the stg3 as test to see if it had any effect and it didn't. I have changed to the 225 MAF profile and also the 225 injector profile. Kind of makes me think hardware issue but it ran flawless before the tune.
> 
> Any way to differentiate between hardware and software issue?


Well if ur using the correct file I'd assume hardware issue. Hard to say. Do u get fuel trims in block 32?


----------



## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

for the sake of being curious. 

is the amount of time advance in most the base files the same between the different "race map" profiles for the most part. 

How much does Tapp/Maestro advance timing typical with the race maps? 

Still trying to figure the best way to tune in the Water/Meth injection with Maestro. Best to adjust via QuickTune in the flash program....or legitimately focus it in within the maps?

Joe


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> for the sake of being curious.
> 
> is the amount of time advance in most the base files the same between the different "race map" profiles for the most part.
> 
> ...


always better to focus on the maps......i started out in the race gas map......


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> for the sake of being curious.
> 
> is the amount of time advance in most the base files the same between the different "race map" profiles for the most part.
> 
> ...


I have noticed typical timing advance between race gas and pump gas is about 7 degrees


----------



## SteelHeadBC (Feb 3, 2010)

so I have pulled out my rear O2 and now I have a code ...o2 sensor heater contr . circ.(Bank1(1)sensor 2 ) ... I have euroDyne and I have turned off the stuff regarding that but still got the code .. anyone help me out?


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> for the sake of being curious.
> 
> is the amount of time advance in most the base files the same between the different "race map" profiles for the most part.
> 
> ...


Hey Joe-

We logged a WOT pull on my car then loaded and traced that log on my pump gas map. Increased the cells I hit under load and cells around them to match the desired numbers gradually. Why use quicktune when you have access to the whole map to play with!


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

my old laptop crapped out, I transferred everything over to my new one. Im getting updats, but whenever I open maestro ailed to load *FTD2XX.DLL are the FTDI drivers installed"* any suggestions?


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Google FTDI VCP drivers-- download and install.


----------



## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

I have some block 32 logs and regular logs, looking for any input thanks.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIeUdydXRJVUJWQlE/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIeE1zOS1wckVGb0U/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIXzRucnRlbmtxdXc/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIOFBPTVU0QnN3OUE/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIcGlkczBwazIyZDA/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgISnhEem5xTlhOSE0/edit?usp=sharing


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

DougLoBue said:


> Hey Joe-
> 
> We logged a WOT pull on my car then loaded and traced that log on my pump gas map. Increased the cells I hit under load and cells around them to match the desired numbers gradually. Why use quicktune when you have access to the whole map to play with!



That's what I figured...with the old box tune...thats what we did/would have to do. 

However, guess I should have made it a bit more clear what I was looking for. 

In "tuning" the water/meth system into the basefile...is it best to "start with" the race gas map, and tune/adjust it from there...

or

do it in the pump gas map alone...

I like the idea of doing it and tweaking it "within" the race map profile for the sheer ability to be able to revert back to the "pump gas" profile within the same basefile should something go wrong with the system, water/meth not being available, etc. 


That make sense? 

My other question seems to have been answered....seems that most "race" gas profiles show around 7 degrees of timing advance. 

Joe


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Joe-

If you're going to modify the race gas map you should export the pump gas map and import it over the race gas map then edit that. My car on e85 knocked with the race gas map under low load and idle.


----------



## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

gotcha...

which now made me think of something else...

maybe the best way (and maybe what you were saying before...) to go about it would be to log/mod the pump gas map as you said (no mods to "race map") and once I'm happy with the "tune" on it..."export" that modified pump gas map and set it as the race map and retain a copy of the original as the "detune/pump gas" map in gas something was wrong with the meth system, supply was short, etc. 

Still wish we could switch between maps quickly on the fly...without the laptop. Hard to believe their isn't coding available to make it a cruise stalk switch similar to APR. 

One can dream right? 

That said...from experience...what do you think is the best way to go about logging and tuning the "pump gas map" for the meth setup...

(sorry for all the questions...have we mentioned we need a Maestro sub forum?)

Joe


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

post a copy of your latest file.

First thing I will say, is your timing is very weak. 9* isnt ****.

Fueling is all over, rich-lean-rich-lean etc.

Get a solid 3k to redline WOT pull. Start the log at the beginning, stop at the end.


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

I recently did a AEB 1.8t swap and installed the OEM OBD2 into a CE1 85 scirocco. the swap was simple minus all the custom fabrication needed but the wiring was straight forward and I love the 
simplicity of running OBD2. I am sold
I have been reading about this Maestro7 and am considering it for a turbo upgrade in the scirocco maybe next year.

I also have made 425whp and 361wtq on my ABA 16v w/ 034efi 1C waste spark setup it uses a 4 bar MAP sensor. I have 1000cc injs and a 80mm T/B, a GT3076R turbo and liquid intercooler. I use Ford TPS and GM Air Temp sensor. I have a External 60-2 crank trigger. I can reinstall the OEM ABA Knock Sensor. I want to move up to a fully sequential ignition and fuel injection system. I like what I see so far in the Maestro 7 capability. 

My question is If I install a OBD2 into my setup and switch to COP coils will the Mastro7 allow me to use the hardware and sensors I already have? 
I want to make at least the same power level, I.E. What is the limiting factor?
What is the limit the Maestro 7 on a larger turbo?
Is it the MAF?


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Aeb setups are a bit limited.

You might be better off going dbw with an awp harness if you decide to go with maestro.


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

Dave926 said:


> Aeb setups are a bit limited.
> 
> You might be better off going dbw with an awp harness if you decide to go with maestro.


I can wire in any ecu/harness 
will the dbw work with cable throttle?


----------



## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

last couple times I dyno'd this car, I couldn't get over 340whp. looking to see if I can get any help figuring this out:beer:



SGTphatboy said:


> I have some block 32 logs and regular logs, looking for any input thanks.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIeUdydXRJVUJWQlE/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> ...


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

SGTphatboy said:


> last couple times I dyno'd this car, I couldn't get over 340whp. looking to see if I can get any help figuring this out:beer:





Dave926 said:


> post a copy of your latest file.
> 
> First thing I will say, is your timing is very weak. 9* isnt ****.
> 
> ...


Post your file.

Repoman, they arent compatibke. Difference that really matters is that the awp/dbw setups are wideband native, and also use immo but that can be defeated with Maestro. With it being dbw, wideband, etc you get a lot better control over whats going on.


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

Dave926 said:


> Post your file.
> 
> Repoman, they arent compatibke. Difference that really matters is that the awp/dbw setups are wideband native, and also use immo but that can be defeated with Maestro. With it being dbw, wideband, etc you get a lot better control over whats going on.


I want the wideband control so I should find the awp harness and it's ecu. 
One thing I just thought of is I will need to install a CAM position sensor. are the crank trigger and cam trigger positions programmable on Maestro 7?


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

REPOMAN said:


> I want the wideband control so I should find the awp harness and it's ecu.
> One thing I just thought of is I will need to install a CAM position sensor. are the crank trigger and cam trigger positions programmable on Maestro 7?


U will need to use all the awp harness and sensors. Minus coils which u could use any


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

*Target/Limit EGT?*

I hope this is not a stupid question(s):
Is it possible by using Maestro 7 on a base file for stg3 to set a limit for how much the EGT can rise during a WOT pull? 
Is there a map or a checkbox option for this?
If YES, how the EGT input is transmitted to the ECU?
If NO, then the answer to "how to limit the EGTs" could be only by tuning on the dyno for AFRs and "timing" and boost such as to read the desired EGTs under wot conditions? Is this the only way with Maestro 7?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

rogerius said:


> Is it possible by using Maestro 7 on a base file for stg3 to set a limit for how much the EGT can rise during a WOT pull?
> Is there a map or a checkbox option for this?
> If YES, how the EGT input is transmitted to the ECU?
> If NO, then the answer to "how to limit the EGTs" could be only by tuning on the dyno for AFRs and "timing" and boost such as to read the desired EGTs under wot conditions? Is this the only way with Maestro 7?


What kind of car is this? Does the car have a dedicated EGT sensor (i.e. is it a wide-band car with a K04 turbo)? If not, then EGT monitoring is "simulated" using the O2 sensor, which generally under-reports. But you could install a free-standing probe to show you what the actual temps are. I use the one supplied by Auber Instruments.


----------



## GLI_jetta (Jan 3, 2006)

What's up guys, can I post a log in here and you guys can take a look? Or should I make a separate post? I finally got my car to the point where it actually moves haha, just not very efficiently.. I'm completely new to this and I'd appreciate some suggestions/feedback..

Thanks guys


----------



## ThatredHead (Apr 16, 2012)

Well finally got the car running and seems pretty close maybe just a little tweaking. Just looking for opinions since new and still learning a ton with this. 

Car is a stock wideband non-VVT 225 TT with 3" catlless DP with N80,N112,N249 delete

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7x4C1eXU9a-aGxyWHRScm1INzA/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7x4C1eXU9a-azFvbXZPWGRpYzg/edit?usp=sharing


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

GLI_jetta said:


> What's up guys, can I post a log in here and you guys can take a look? Or should I make a separate post? I finally got my car to the point where it actually moves haha, just not very efficiently.. I'm completely new to this and I'd appreciate some suggestions/feedback..
> 
> Thanks guys


Log and the .mstro file.

Use google docs and make sure its.not set to private


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

GLI_jetta said:


> What's up guys, can I post a log in here and you guys can take a look? Or should I make a separate post? I finally got my car to the point where it actually moves haha, just not very efficiently.. I'm completely new to this and I'd appreciate some suggestions/feedback..
> 
> Thanks guys


Pos it here n we'll try to help.



SGTphatboy said:


> last couple times I dyno'd this car, I couldn't get over 340whp. looking to see if I can get any help figuring this out:beer:


A WOT log will help. If u have 5-speed tranny do it in 3rd..if it's 6-speed, do it in 4th gear.


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> What kind of car is this? Does the car have a dedicated EGT sensor (i.e. is it a wide-band car with a K04 turbo)? If not, then EGT monitoring is "simulated" using the O2 sensor, which generally under-reports. But you could install a free-standing probe to show you what the actual temps are. I use the one supplied by Auber Instruments.


My "Auber Inst" is on its way. However I have another EGT probe on the car since the beginning. I see very high EGTs with the base file. That's why I'm worried.
It is a BT with 3" DP, a WB car, with Innovate WB probe as well and I'm seeing always AFR 12 @ WOT.
I just wonder if any people with BT ever watch theis EGTs and how high they could be BEFORE turbo.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

rogerius said:


> My "Auber Inst" is on its way. However I have another EGT probe on the car since the beginning. I see very high EGTs with the base file. That's why I'm worried.
> It is a BT with 3" DP, a WB car, with Innovate WB probe as well and I'm seeing always AFR 12 @ WOT.
> I just wonder if any people with BT ever watch theis EGTs and how high they could be BEFORE turbo.


What do you consider very high EGT?


----------



## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

If I WOT to redline in 5th, I always see in excess of 850degC (I've set an alarm at 850) and I let off the gas pedal immediately, before reaching 900. Imagine if I keep it WOT ! I could melt the head/pistons/sparkplugs etc.
The probe is in the exhaust manifold flange after the collector and just before the turbo.
Does anybody else watch his EGTs during WOT?
However, cruising at 14.7 AFR, I seldom see 750degC only on long uphills. 550-650 on flat stretches.On coasting goes as low as 200-300 as it should.

So, how to finetune with Maestro & with EGT limit in mind? Say max 900 under any circumstances? I would pay a tuner to use Maestro& for me, just want to know if its worth buying.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

850 preturbo is hot but should still be fine. I use to see about the same amount if not a little more. 3 years so far and I'm still good. How much boost are you running? What kind of timing advance are you running at said temps. Is there much timing correction? If not, advancing the timing may help lower get.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A chipped K03 turbo will endure over 950˚c pre-turbine. I see no reason to worry about temps below this value:


----------



## jetice (Jan 4, 2013)

Ok, I have been lurking on here for a while now, trying to get up to date on this thread. I am most of the way through now, and have not seen any answers to these questions, so forgive me if they were answered recently. Sorry if some of these are n00b questions.

1: Is there any plans for 2-step support for AEB?
2: Are AEB guys using the N75, or going EBC?
3: If using N75, how do the values correspond to the desired boost?
4: How do I go about deleting the post-cat O2 sensor? 

Thanks to all the guys for the support on this forum, it is helping me out a lot!


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

jetice said:


> Ok, I have been lurking on here for a while now, trying to get up to date on this thread. I am most of the way through now, and have not seen any answers to these questions, so forgive me if they were answered recently. Sorry if some of these are n00b questions.
> 
> 1: Is there any plans for 2-step support for AEB?
> 2: Are AEB guys using the N75, or going EBC?
> ...


Aeb tunes suck. I've been converting Aeb cars to newer awm wideband tunes. Pm me for info. I can make a harness for u


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## jetice (Jan 4, 2013)

tojr1088 said:


> Aeb tunes suck. I've been converting Aeb cars to newer awm wideband tunes. Pm me for info. I can make a harness for u


Wouldn't I have to pay for the credits if I converted?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

jetice said:


> Wouldn't I have to pay for the credits if I converted?


 2 people I have done conversions for have gotten Chris to transfer the tune for them


----------



## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

So I downloaded Maestro yesterday to my dedicated tuning laptop and for some odd reason when I go to open the program, it gives me an error code and wont open. Has anyone else had this problem? My tuning laptop runs windows xp and has 1g of ram so I assume it should be able to run maestro no problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Waffle (Mar 5, 2008)

Dowski12 said:


> So I downloaded Maestro yesterday to my dedicated tuning laptop and for some odd reason when I go to open the program, it gives me an error code and wont open. Has anyone else had this problem? My tuning laptop runs windows xp and has 1g of ram so I assume it should be able to run maestro no problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


 You need to have the cable plugged in to start the program.

If you have it plugged in, post the error and message.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Nevermind, I got it to work. I needed to download MS dot net 2.0 and then it loaded like a champ!


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Stage 1 file, 3" tbe, treadstone intercooler 

Max ve turned down to 163 ish to keep correctiond under control7


----------



## methadone (Apr 1, 2005)

Hey, im in Toronto, Canada... 

Looking for someone who can work with maestro, a dyno would be cool. 
Willing to drive up to 5 hours for a solid day's tuning. 

Also open to me doing WOT run logs and sending them and you sending me a file... 
would paypal for this... 

thx guys.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Point of maestro is to do it yourself, with pointers from others. 

That being said, post your file, with a list of mods and a few third gear WOT pulls. 

At that point anyone can edit it, you can review it and where/why changes were made.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

R32 spindles/arms with r32 sway bar. Clearance issues solved (aside from frame rail)


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Thanks appreciate it! 



TooLFan46n2 said:


> R32 spindles/arms with r32 sway bar. Clearance issues solved (aside from frame rail)


----------



## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

hey can someone help me figure out why my car is pulling so much timing? any load on the engine and it's pulling ~12*.. motor timing is all correct i believe, it's not throwing any codes and i just replaced a bad primary o2 sensor 

2.1L stroker 
built AEB head (stock cams) 
id1000's 
stock intake mani/tb 
mafless 

log: 
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-9d3K_mBqakV2ZpZ2pmOXF5Y2M/edit?usp=sharing 

tune: 
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-9d3K_mBqakdkZZS2pZVFh2Rmc/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Post your file.
> 
> Repoman, they arent compatibke. Difference that really matters is that the awp/dbw setups are wideband native, and also use immo but that can be defeated with Maestro. With it being dbw, wideband, etc you get a lot better control over whats going on.


 the file im using now or the logs? I posted the logs


----------



## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

tune1: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgILU5DWTZCYWw3NTg/edit?usp=sharing 

tune2: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIbV9PZERJYmtQaVU/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

SGTphatboy said:


> tune1: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgILU5DWTZCYWw3NTg/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> tune2: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIbV9PZERJYmtQaVU/edit?usp=sharing


 Which one coincides with the last set of logs that you posted?


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

Does anyone know what other maps share the RPM axis of Target Filling(KFMIRL),if any? in maestro first row is 4 rpm..seems wierd to me,and i rather have the rpm values the same like optimum engine torgue(KFMIOP)


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

dubbin_boho said:


> hey can someone help me figure out why my car is pulling so much timing? any load on the engine and it's pulling ~12*.. motor timing is all correct i believe, it's not throwing any codes and i just replaced a bad primary o2 sensor
> 
> 2.1L stroker
> built AEB head (stock cams)
> ...


 Just from running your logs, I would suggest you check to see if you have race timing map checked off. 



SGTphatboy said:


> the file im using now or the logs? I posted the logs


 PM sent


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

dubbin_boho said:


>


 This smacks of a knock sensor fault. Check them for correct tightness. If they're off, the ECU will instantly pull timing as soon as you touch the throttle.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

check timing marks also, if your off a tooth weird things can happen :laugh:


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

If it was engine timing it would throw a code (if enabled) and you would know for sure. When my car jumped a tooth it behaved & sounded extremely different. 

Definetly check your torque and range of knock sensors. 

Every Built 2.1 log I have ever seen has massive timing pull like shown above. I'm not sure if its lack of configured maps or if the actual displacement within the bosch code needs change--something we don't have an option for & I do not have the knowledge and understanding to follow those complex schematics to see what changes would affect.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Perhaps piston rock and ptw clearance play a role in this.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Which one coincides with the last set of logs that you posted?


 it was the second, but I got your message, thankyou dave, I will get some logs tomorrow and post them:beer::heart:


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

here ya go Dave 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIOVlvdFU1aVNrMGs/edit?usp=sharing 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgINU1JTXIweGFidm8/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Something isn't right with those.logs, they are only 2kb.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Something isn't right with those.logs, they are only 2kb.


 ok hmmmmm I will take a look and see what I did wrong


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

hope this is better: 
a lot of o2 correction 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIUVVVdG95OWpzR3M/edit?usp=sharing 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIYUxQSUxUTDVWYVk/edit?usp=sharing


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

SGTphatboy said:


> hope this is better:
> a lot of o2 correction
> 
> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIUVVVdG95OWpzR3M/edit?usp=sharing
> ...


 And timing as well!


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## ThatredHead (Apr 16, 2012)

Trying to work out some small tweaks with current file and need some suggestions. 02 wideband 225TT stock but DV, 3" DP and deletes. AWP stage 1 tune. 

1) On cold start up car stumbles and misses a few times and then idles fine and can restart without issue? 

2) Seems to hesitate on part throttle acceleration around 2300 to 3000 rpms turbo sounds like its spooling but car feels slightly sluggish but if you floor it don't really notice it much. 

Very new to eurodyne but getting the hang of it so If need anything else or I did something wrong let me know I can get it fixed Here is a log I took from 2nd through 4th getting on to the highway. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Arx4C1eXU9a-dF9WTkhxR3Q0OERpU2JjYXBaVXhVM2c&usp=sharing


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

ran some more logs tonight. 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIUmtLUnRLQXc3Rlk/edit?usp=sharing 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIbWRGaVBVNHh1dVk/edit?usp=sharing 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIeUhNd2lZcWtRZFE/edit?usp=sharing


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

why is your request at 3k 1 at wot? Timing curve and range is all funked up. Did you let off the throttle mid run? what is your setup? Is your maf readings turned to g/s? @ THatredhead 

as for SGTPHATboy 

You need to either lower your IC a tad or adjust injection correction map to pull a bit of that fuel at wot. I would make 5% reduction in those areas after tracing the map. Your timing needs be dropped to around 9 degrees by peak boost and hold that until you hit 6k then have it slowly ramp up to 15*at redline(looks like your running a MBC or EBC). Should do it for ya or ya need to boost your octane. Idk your setup exactly


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Logs*

Well, After I did some Histogram Tracing and changed up some of the lower RPM Values by 0.75 I did some pulls to see how my knock and also my Lambda was. Here are the results. I still can't figure out why my knock is up there over the -5 level? The days conditions were Sunny and around 75 with some humidity! 

I would put the file I am using on here but not sure how to do it using Google? 


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdEo2QWkxSUg1Y3doY093cEE3OXR4VFE&usp=sharing 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdHNrUTgxbGxJejJxaTR0YkFabC02c0E&usp=sharing 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdEVmQVlUcDNubFJWMmlrakRRblRHVHc&usp=sharing


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Budsdubbin said:


> why is your request at 3k 1 at wot? Timing curve and range is all funked up. Did you let off the throttle mid run? what is your setup? Is your maf readings turned to g/s? @ THatredhead
> 
> as for SGTPHATboy
> 
> You need to either lower your IC a tad or adjust injection correction map to pull a bit of that fuel at wot. I would make 5% reduction in those areas after tracing the map. Your timing needs be dropped to around 9 degrees by peak boost and hold that until you hit 6k then have it slowly ramp up to 15*at redline(looks like your running a MBC or EBC). Should do it for ya or ya need to boost your octane. Idk your setup exactly


 ok thank you very much, yes I am running an MBC


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## ThatredHead (Apr 16, 2012)

Budsdubbin said:


> why is your request at 3k 1 at wot? Timing curve and range is all funked up. Did you let off the throttle mid run? what is your setup? Is your maf readings turned to g/s?


 It was 2nd gear through 4th gear so while shifting I did let off the throttle fields 104 through 168 was wot 4th gear pull. 

Setup is stock AMU 225 TT with awp ecu wideband swap non VVT, 3in downpipe and diverter valve. Tune is the awp stg1 base file with changes to the injector and maf maps from pull down menu to see the larger TT maf and injectors 

As far as g/s couldn't tell you haven't messed with it.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

So who has tuned for E85? 

As I understand you have to adjust the BVC and the injector constant as well as adjust timing upto what you feel safe. 

How do you go about adjusting the injector constant and BVC? If you know how please put it on a basic level if that is even possible. 

I am hoping that given my vague knowledge of tuning I can (hopefully) easily switch to E85 with the current file that I have. 

Thanks!


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

derekb727 said:


> So who has tuned for E85?
> 
> As I understand you have to adjust the BVC and the injector constant as well as adjust timing upto what you feel safe.
> 
> ...


 Lookup Swoleguy's e85 tuning thread for some good info.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Lookup Swoleguy's e85 tuning thread for some good info.


 On it, thanks!


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Out of curiosity has anyone else here besides Budsdubbin actually attempted to read the Bosch docs?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I started to, but my head began to spin.:banghead: 

Im going to take another crack at it soon


----------



## ThatredHead (Apr 16, 2012)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Out of curiosity has anyone else here besides Budsdubbin actually attempted to read the Bosch docs?


 I've read through them a few times an slowly learn something everytime after my head stops spinning another goo source is the bosch automotive handbook. Tons of very technical stuff. 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0837616867i


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

ThatredHead said:


> It was 2nd gear through 4th gear so while shifting I did let off the throttle fields 104 through 168 was wot 4th gear pull.
> 
> Setup is stock AMU 225 TT with awp ecu wideband swap non VVT, 3in downpipe and diverter valve. Tune is the awp stg1 base file with changes to the injector and maf maps from pull down menu to see the larger TT maf and injectors
> 
> As far as g/s couldn't tell you haven't messed with it.


 Dude richen your mix to @ least .85 before full boost. I would take it to .82 on your enrichment fuel map. Then work on getting your timing table together once fuel is set.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Out of curiosity has anyone else here besides Budsdubbin actually attempted to read the Bosch docs?


 Lol these guys are getting lazy.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

NJ1.8T said:


> Well, After I did some Histogram Tracing and changed up some of the lower RPM Values by 0.75 I did some pulls to see how my knock and also my Lambda was. Here are the results. I still can't figure out why my knock is up there over the -5 level? The days conditions were Sunny and around 75 with some humidity!
> 
> I would put the file I am using on here but not sure how to do it using Google?
> 
> ...


 A/f looks solid but you are running way too much timing for whatever fuel your running so I would drop timing to 9 at full boost then hold until 6500ish then ramp it up to 15 degrees at readline that would be a better curve to start off with.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

ThatredHead said:


> It was 2nd gear through 4th gear so while shifting I did let off the throttle fields 104 through 168 was wot 4th gear pull.
> 
> Setup is stock AMU 225 TT with awp ecu wideband swap non VVT, 3in downpipe and diverter valve. Tune is the awp stg1 base file with changes to the injector and maf maps from pull down menu to see the larger TT maf and injectors
> 
> As far as g/s couldn't tell you haven't messed with it.


 So, ko4 on a ko3 base file? I woukd maybe do some importing/exporting of maps 



Budsdubbin said:


> Dude richen your mix to @ least .85 before full boost. I would take it to .82 on your enrichment fuel map. Then work on getting your timing table together once fuel is set.


 Welcome to the c.tapp stage 1 file. My car was requesting that egt protection kicked in at 4500 or so.


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## ThatredHead (Apr 16, 2012)

Budsdubbin said:


> Dude richen your mix to @ least .85 before full boost. I would take it to .82 on your enrichment fuel map. Then work on getting your timing table together once fuel is set.





Dave926 said:


> So, ko4 on a ko3 base file? I woukd maybe do some importing/exporting of maps
> Welcome to the c.tapp stage 1 file. My car was requesting that egt protection kicked in at 4500 or so.


 I was doing some comparing tonight from different base files and did notice a few differences between some of the maps and it had crossed my mind if my issues could be something to do with the k04 on k03 base tune. 

Since I'm kinda new to this which maps should I try importing. I'm thinking the torque control and boost control maps? Then adjust fuel from there?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I am running 93 octane. I only know how to add or subtract timing via the histogram. How can I get the timing down to 9 to full boost and then up to 15 degrees to redline? 



Budsdubbin said:


> A/f looks solid but you are running way too much timing for whatever fuel your running so I would drop timing to 9 at full boost then hold until 6500ish then ramp it up to 15 degrees at readline that would be a better curve to start off with.


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## MrAkalin (Jan 4, 2011)

I've been digging through this thread for about a half hour now.. 

I'm looking for answers regaurding NLS. Me and another Vortexer can't seem to get ours to work and I'm not finding many answers. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6027346-Maestro-7-no-lift-shift-help! 

If you guys can chime in that would be awesome^^ 

But a couple of basic questions.. My 2 step works fine, but no NLS. 

Can you guys 2 step your car without the clutch pedal pressed in? I can be out of gear, not pressing the clutch, just floor the gas and it 2 steps. 

What ms do you guys reccommened starting at for a "begginer" NLS. I have tried 50ms and 150ms and it is not working. I don't know if it's not working, because it's not working or that is simply to fast of a time for I guess you can call a begginer. 

Also is there a way to test to see if the NLS is working besides going out and doing a WOT pull and banging gears at a high RPM? I ask this because I feel if I go out and do a WOT pull and NLS at 7k rpms (and NLS doesn't work) I will slowly cause damage to my trans. 

Any help would be awesome! Thanks.. :beer:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

NJ1.8T said:


> I am running 93 octane. I only know how to add or subtract timing via the histogram. How can I get the timing down to 9 to full boost and then up to 15 degrees to redline?


 Take the log that you posted use the datalogger to highlight the cell selection,then play the datalog. Follow the logger when you see corrections happen look at the cell and the cells around it. Look up interpolation because I don't wish to devote a decent amount of time telling you about something that has been covered (not being a dick I just don't have the time to spare). 

but here :assume 
LOAD 160%180% 
rpm 
4500 {14.25}{9} 
5000 {15.00}{10} 


Lets say the moment correction happens is at 170%. No column? interpolate.... whats halfway between 14.25 and 9? 11.5ish degrees of ignition timing. Correction? I would drop the 14.25 down to 11-12 if we are looking at a pull of 1-2 degress. I donno if I can make it any more simple.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Here are logs I ran yesterday as well as the current file I am running. 
I don't know what is going on. I am seeing massive O2 corrections at low rpm;s 

I have made so many tweaks to this file I am wondering if it would be better to start fresh. 
If anyone has time could they take a look and see what they can find? 



https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B47DO3r50kI8TS14REhCSUZuODA/edit?usp=sharing 
idle 
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B47DO3r50kI8WmhHcFN2S2ZzM0U/edit?usp=sharing 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B47DO3r50kI8djBVbzNpbGdsX3c/edit?usp=sharing 
normal driving 


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B47DO3r50kI8TlQ2d2VCNFpwaE0/edit?usp=sharing 
3rd pull 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B47DO3r50kI8d0pKSHBTYnVxVkE/edit?usp=sharing This is the file


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, I traced my timing and made changes and then I decided to take the car for some pulls. As soon as I started it up I heard an exhaust leak. The Wastegate was coming loose. So now I have to figure out how to tighten it since it's in a hard to reach location.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

NJ1.8T said:


> Well, I traced my timing and made changes and then I decided to take the car for some pulls. As soon as I started it up I heard an exhaust leak. The Wastegate was coming loose. So now I have to figure out how to tighten it since it's in a hard to reach location.


 Just had this issues with the CTS kit Saturday. 

The easiest way to tighten it up without removing the DP is cut down an allen wrench so there is only enough material to fit inside the hex bolt. I got them as tight as I could be hand then hooked an 11mm wrench over for a 'cheater bar' 

Also make sure you did not blow out the gasket and your fire ring does not fall out. 
M8x1.25 x20mm should work fine for you. Grade 8.8. Do not use stainless. 
I also used NordLocks.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Finally got my tune dialed in. 

Stock ko3s, big treadstone fmic and 3" tb. Put my ev14 850ccs in friday along with my intank 450 setup from arnold in. 

Changed the injector constant, used the bvc from the 550cc profile. Drove a bit, 032 showed -8%. Filled the tank with~10 gallons of 93, ~4 gallons of corn. 

Timing pulk also dropped to almost nothing, just a few degrees on cylinder 2, where it was maxing out and hitting between 8 to 12 

032 went to 1% 

Adjusted the injection correction map using the histogram, and with the exception of one area i got a little to greedy with correction on a WOT pull is around +/- 1% 

Loving it, car is finally running right. Ill post some logs later


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

Anyone have issues with rev hang in between shifts? for some reason mine just started doing it. It is not real bad just jumps up a little but really annoying. 

:thumbup:


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

Vdubed13 said:


> Anyone have issues with rev hang in between shifts? for some reason mine just started doing it. It is not real bad just jumps up a little but really annoying.
> 
> :thumbup:


 sounds like the clutch switch under the dash is bad


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## MrAkalin (Jan 4, 2011)

Vdubed13 said:


> Anyone have issues with rev hang in between shifts? for some reason mine just started doing it. It is not real bad just jumps up a little but really annoying.
> 
> :thumbup:


 Had the same problem. Clutch switch. $31 bucks for the dealer


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## Matt_Dubbing_Lopez (Jun 10, 2009)

*630cc idle issue*

Running 630cc genesis injectors on my awp bt and I adjusted the BVC as USRT said to. Issue is during idle, the RPMs will bounce. HG (boost gauge) will fluctuate from 20hg to 10. Also during shifts when the RPMs drop it almost stalls due to it. 

I've read alot about 630cc issues but not a complete answer to the open/closed loop. Any advice since this issue was been around for awhile?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Matt_Dubbing_Lopez said:


> Running 630cc genesis injectors on my awp bt and I adjusted the BVC as USRT said to. Issue is during idle, the RPMs will bounce. HG (boost gauge) will fluctuate from 20hg to 10. Also during shifts when the RPMs drop it almost stalls due to it.
> 
> I've read alot about 630cc issues but not a complete answer to the open/closed loop. Any advice since this issue was been around for awhile?


 Start by making sure you have no Vac or Exhaust leaks, these issues will cause chaos when trying to dial in a tune, especially if you are mafless. 
What are your numbers in block 32? How are your O2 corrections at idle?


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## Vdubed13 (Jun 6, 2008)

dubbin_boho said:


> sounds like the clutch switch under the dash is bad





MrAkalin said:


> Had the same problem. Clutch switch. $31 bucks for the dealer


 Thanks dudes it just started doing it ill order one tomorrow


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

anyone running a 3 or 4 bar map sensor? looking to get my car dyno tuned soon and the shop i'm talking to recommended using a higher pressure map sensor for reading higher loads. i'm not using the n75 for boost control, just an MBC.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Changing to a differently-scaled MAP sensor is no small modification. I know such a thing exists from diesel engines, but there's very little corresponding software support.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I got both of them tight now and its running better. With that leak I was running a nasty idle, it would rev up and then drop to the point where it would almost stall. But it's good for awhile now. I will try and get a very small 3/8's drive and attach a wobble end so I can get in there to tighten them if they come lose again. 



hootyburra said:


> Just had this issues with the CTS kit Saturday.
> 
> The easiest way to tighten it up without removing the DP is cut down an allen wrench so there is only enough material to fit inside the hex bolt. I got them as tight as I could be hand then hooked an 11mm wrench over for a 'cheater bar'
> 
> ...


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> I got both of them tight now and its running better. With that leak I was running a nasty idle, it would rev up and then drop to the point where it would almost stall. But it's good for awhile now. I will try and get a very small 3/8's drive and attach a wobble end so I can get in there to tighten them if they come lose again.


 I cut a hex key down to just a straight piece, I than used a 6mm close end wrench to turn the hex key. This gives good leverage. 

Be carefull though, I found I had a bolt that bottomed out before the wastegate was tight. I ended up removing the manifold, drilling and tapping the damaged bolt hole and reassembling with proper length hardware. Since that I have not had a problem (knock on wood).


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## Matt_Dubbing_Lopez (Jun 10, 2009)

hootyburra said:


> Start by making sure you have no Vac or Exhaust leaks, these issues will cause chaos when trying to dial in a tune, especially if you are mafless.
> What are your numbers in block 32? How are your O2 corrections at idle?


 Already checked for leaks, it only starts after you give it fuel, if its idles on its own it'll start jumping. Here are the logs from idle. 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3venMcTJVCNTTM5RnE4bXFaREE/edit?usp=sharing


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Matt_Dubbing_Lopez said:


> Already checked for leaks, it only starts after you give it fuel, if its idles on its own it'll start jumping. Here are the logs from idle.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3venMcTJVCNTTM5RnE4bXFaREE/edit?usp=sharing


 better keep checking you definetly have hardware issues. o2 sensor good? 

and you can use the Maestro logger instead of measuring blocks for a more complete log


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## Matt_Dubbing_Lopez (Jun 10, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> better keep checking you definetly have hardware issues. o2 sensor good?
> 
> and you can use the Maestro logger instead of measuring blocks for a more complete log


 Update: replaced the o2 sensor again, and found a small leak at the intake manifold gasket only at cold starts. In addition I adjusted idle speed and idle torque to dial in a smooth idle. Idles great even in this freak cold spell we got in NJ tonight


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Anyone ever use the maf correction table to fix little fueling issues?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Its used for part throttle corrections mainly. It will have little effect on WOT tuning. IC will show better results. If its part throttle your looking to dial in alpha N will be the map to look into.


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

*Min coolant temp for closed loop after cold start, on a base 630 file...*

Anybody knows up to what coolant temp the car is in open loop with cold start enrichment?
For a base 630cc file, I see 11.5 AFR at idle until 60degC CT and from there on it goes 14.7.
Is this normal? What other people see?
I am trying to troubleshoot a long cranking at cold starts. Want to know how reach is it set @ cold start, from the base file!.
TIA!


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> Its used for part throttle corrections mainly. It will have little effect on WOT tuning. IC will show better results. If its part throttle your looking to dial in alpha N will be the map to look into.


Err, alpha n for what? Thought that was mafless files only.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

if you take the time to read into the bosch documents..... If your maf readings deviate to much from the alpha N values (alpha N values are not actual air mass values but numbers used in the equation for speed density), then your ecu uses the presets instead of the maf readings for airflow calculation. In certain situations such as part throttle maf readings are taken into account as well as speed density for reference. If you think speed density is only used in mafless situations you are wrong.:laugh:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

**** me.

Previously I more or less stock car, but with fuel pump issues. Replaced the pump with a walbro 450lph and arnolds intank surge, and put in some bosch ev14 850cc injectors to run e85.

Converted to corn, and it runs ok. It pulls like a bastard with 26° of advance up top, but fuel corrections are all over, consistently in the same spots.

Ive tried adjusting inj. Correction, and main fuel correction with less than ideal results. Its getting better, but 6 to 7 revisions later. Seems like a bit much if you ask me.

Also, cold starts are a bitch. 2 separate cranks gets it kicked over, but its undriveable for at least 2 minutes.


----------



## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

I occasionally get a P0172 code too rich bank one

and I just recently got a P2181 code....cooling system 

any suggestions?:beer:


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> **** me.
> 
> Previously I more or less stock car, but with fuel pump issues. Replaced the pump with a walbro 450lph and arnolds intank surge, and put in some bosch ev14 850cc injectors to run e85.
> 
> ...


You need to play with warmup fuel corrections. I bet your car is trying to run too rich at startup and e85's east favorite thing to do is run rich. Warmup corrections add fuel until the coolant reaches a certain temp.

Also if you're relaying on the wideband sensor to make the car drive able corrections don't kick in for 30secs to a min.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DougLoBue said:


> You need to play with warmup fuel corrections. I bet your car is trying to run too rich at startup and e85's east favorite thing to do is run rich. Warmup corrections add fuel until the coolant reaches a certain temp.
> 
> Also if you're relaying on the wideband sensor to make the car drive able corrections don't kick in for 30secs to a min.



I was always under the impression E85 required more on the warmup correction. Its better than when I initially started though. I keep forgetting to run the logger during the startup to see where its hitting on the correction map.

By undriveable, I mean it just drives like ****. Lower RPM, like when letting the clutch out around ~1200 or so it bucks and farts a bit. Once warmed up, its pretty good. 

Overall though, I think I will be pretty happy using this as a fuel. Car runs smoother, sounds a little 'healthier' and seems to be at its full potential for what it is.

Edit for some graphs:

02 Correction vs load


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> **** me.
> 
> Previously I more or less stock car, but with fuel pump issues. Replaced the pump with a walbro 450lph and arnolds intank surge, and put in some bosch ev14 850cc injectors to run e85.
> 
> ...


My car runs the exact same way on E85 with 2000cc injectors. Car is undriveable for the first couple minutes until it gets warm and then idle settles in at 14.7. Initial warm up is rich(usually 12.0 AFR or below). 

I have not made any changes to warmup correction maps.

As far as double cranking the car to start, try adding fuel to your cranking fuel map. Cold starts on E85 get progressively worse in cold weather. This usually isn't a problem in Florida but I could imagine it would be terrible in any other state where there are actual seasons


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Yeah. I had the same issue with my car. I got rid of it by essentially flattening most of my warmup fuel correction table. The map tracer won't trace the warmup map. Essentially lower the upper left 4x4 cells drastically and set the rest of the map to 0.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I will give that a shot this weekend. Im constantly screwing with the tune trying to figure stuff out.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

A few questions,

*1. What would cause the accelerator to go haywire?* It has accelerated on it's own twice, hit the brake and knocked it out of gear and it stopped. 

*2. My LTFT is +/- 5 which is good but watching my STFT I see numbers as high as 23 momentarily. Is this normal?*

*3. I have my tune at a nice level of performance and drivability. I want to give it a bigger punch now around 3000-3500 where I have full boost set to come on. What is the best way to do this without raising the boost?* (my timing is as high as it can go with w/m turned off ((CF-3*)) and I want it to stay that way. I don't want it pulling any timing with w/m on)


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

*1.* I had that same accelerator problem when my alpha N table was messed up. Try adjusting it.

*2.* I'm not sure about this issue. I guess it depends on what conditions you are seeing the large correction values. 

*3.* You should really base your timing on a dyno, best torque (really mean best tq) is what you are after, so you may actually make gains by reducing timing. Only a dyno will tell for sure.

- so really you need to put it on a dyno and tune for best tq. if you still aren't where you want to be, than you will have to raise your boost. Alternately try reducing your water meth, or turning it off until higher rpms. Again without more data it will be hard to determine wether the w/m is gaining you anything, or if you are using it before intake temps cause any power robbing issues.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

sabbySC said:


> *1.* I had that same accelerator problem when my alpha N table was messed up. Try adjusting it.
> 
> *2.* I'm not sure about this issue. I guess it depends on what conditions you are seeing the large correction values.
> 
> ...


I tune it with the w/m off. I want the tune to be solid before adding another factor. So, alpha-n, always been afraid to mess with that one.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

DMVDUB said:


> A few questions,
> 
> *1. What would cause the accelerator to go haywire?* It has accelerated on it's own twice, hit the brake and knocked it out of gear and it stopped.
> 
> ...


1. It could be a bunch of things. Torque miscalibration, intervention. The torque pedal & torque structure is 5-dimensional so in theory there could be a problem in any of those maps but most likely someting in target filling/opt eng torque

2. What do you mean +/-? It should be one or the other. No 23% is not good


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

for those with larger injectiors that are having these rich issues what are your Engine loads at idle?


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> 1. It could be a bunch of things. Torque miscalibration, intervention. The torque pedal & torque structure is 5-dimensional so in theory there could be a problem in any of those maps but most likely someting in target filling/opt eng torque
> 
> 2. What do you mean +/-? It should be one or the other. No 23% is not good


It's +5 no meth and usually around -2 though with meth LTFT. With my LTFT being in a normal level I don't get why I see these high spikes out of boost. It doesn't correct like that in boost only before boost.

Maybe if I understood the histogram map thing that'd help... in places where you want to add a little at a time it gives numbers that are higher than the map even allows. I'm not sure if it's just telling me to add/remove a little at those spots or add what it's saying until it doesn't have to correct to that level. 

It would really be nice if it wasn't correction factors but just telling it that you want the afr to be 12.7 here and 14 there...


----------



## Matt_Dubbing_Lopez (Jun 10, 2009)

Ughh I take back what I said. I now got p1297 at idle and p0172 after a few drives. This a headache.


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Matt_Dubbing_Lopez said:


> Ughh I take back what I said. I now got p1297 at idle and p0172 after a few drives. This a headache.


Reflash the base file, adjust the bvc and ic values and go from there.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17705/P1297/004759

Did you follow all these leads and ensure that you do not have a hardware problem? Are you running mafless or with a maf? I forget what all your issues are, but these tunes are not that bad, and usually issues are more related to hardware than anything else.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Ok so my lean condition is only at idle. I'm looking at logs right now and I'm actually excessively rich in boost, but polar opposite out of boost and it seems like it really jumps around at idle and just above idle, around 900rpm is where I see the highest number +31. As soon as I get over 1000rpm get little to no correction until I hit boost where I'm ~ -4 then at ~5000rpm it's pulling -12.25 from the fuel table. 

So this is where I'm stuck, I've added fuel to make sure I'm not lean at boost (I need to lower it in boost it's so rich) and I've remedied that and then some while my idle AFR is lean... 

Not really sure what I should be changing? 

When I do the injector correction on main fuel how much should I add or remove from a cell at a time? I started with 1.0001 as I was told was a good starting point so adding 31 at 900 rpm ( I don't even think it's possible) sounds like it would be the answer, though I know it's not. 

What percentage to the amount of correction is needed? 

If my map is 1.0001 for example and it says to add 20 I can't make that cell 20.001 so how to I calculate the addition? (or do I just add .1 until it starts to change the log?)

I'm not sure how I'm getting these crazy numbers while getting really good performance from the car... I do know my fuel economy is horrid, but that explains the richness up top. 

I'm also interested in running a mixture of E85 and Gasoline e30%/g70% (or as much as 550cc's can handle at 4.5Bar @ 15psi boost) but not until I can figure these maps out.


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Think of 1.001 as 100%

When you see a correction of say +20% you change the cell to 1.20. If -20% then it changes to .80. You should try and get all of your fueling on one side of the spectrum first. All positive or all Negative (I personally would rather have the ecu pulling alittle fuel than having to add in). You also need to smooth out the maps if your just changing individual cells otherwise the car won't run as smooth.

In other words just move the decimal place over two spots:

20% = .20
5% = .05
35% = .35
etc...

Also make sure that the MAF corrections map is set to 1.001. If I remember offhand the cells corresponding to idle on most base files pull some fuel out at idle via this map. Drove me nuts until I found this.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

spartiati said:


> Think of 1.001 as 100%
> 
> When you see a correction of say +20% you change the cell to 1.20. If -20% then it changes to .80. You should try and get all of your fueling on one side of the spectrum first. All positive or all Negative (I personally would rather have the ecu pulling alittle fuel than having to add in). You also need to smooth out the maps if your just changing individual cells otherwise the car won't run as smooth.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH!
This helps more than you could ever know!


----------



## Matt_Dubbing_Lopez (Jun 10, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> Reflash the base file, adjust the bvc and ic values and go from there.
> 
> http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17705/P1297/004759
> 
> Did you follow all these leads and ensure that you do not have a hardware problem? Are you running mafless or with a maf? I forget what all your issues are, but these tunes are not that bad, and usually issues are more related to hardware than anything else.


I'm running a stock awp maf with the gt2871r. I adjusted the BVC for genesis 630cc @3 bar
A leak was found but fixed and things smoothed out except now it says it's running rich and it will search for idle until you rev it for a few seconds. 

O2 corrections at idle are -22.23, when it searches I will increase timing +10. Drives fine minus a/f spiking randomly to 17.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Matt_Dubbing_Lopez said:


> I'm running a stock awp maf with the gt2871r. I adjusted the BVC for genesis 630cc @3 bar
> A leak was found but fixed and things smoothed out except now it says it's running rich and it will search for idle until you rev it for a few seconds.
> 
> O2 corrections at idle are -22.23, when it searches I will increase timing +10. Drives fine minus a/f spiking randomly to 17.


Why would you increase timing? Your car is obviously still not running right.
Throw up another log.
I said you had hardware problems before & I think you still do. If your car is kosher you should have no major issues out of the box. Did you select the AWP MAF from the MAF profile screen? You do realize the AWP MAF is maxed probably at like 10 psi from your turbo. 


The more specific you can be the more help you will get. Simply throwing up random codes w/o definitions is not a help. If your asking for help at least help out the people helping. Maybe I speak for myself but the last thing I want to do is take time googling P-xxx codes while I'm already taking time to read and decifer someone elses tune problems.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Matt_Dubbing_Lopez said:


> I'm running a stock awp maf with the gt2871r. I adjusted the BVC for genesis 630cc @3 bar
> A leak was found but fixed and things smoothed out except now it says it's running rich and it will search for idle until you rev it for a few seconds.
> 
> O2 corrections at idle are -22.23, when it searches I will increase timing +10. Drives fine minus a/f spiking randomly to 17.





TooLFan46n2 said:


> Why would you increase timing? Your car is obviously still not running right.
> Throw up another log.
> I said you had hardware problems before & I think you still do. If your car is kosher you should have no major issues out of the box. Did you select the AWP MAF from the MAF profile screen? You do realize the AWP MAF is maxed probably at like 10 psi from your turbo.
> 
> ...


Your previous logs showed massive swinging o2 corrections (from positive to negative) which is not good. They should change in a smooth linear fashion.

The lumpy idle is what makes me think you still may have an issue. What leak did you fix?


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Just to be clear, my issue sounds very similar to Matt Lopez's issue. I just don't have any rough idle. My care runs great just has wonky afr. 

Here's a question,

If I use the logger and get a histogram value of 10 in the main fuel map what do I do?

Lets say my numbers are 1.0001, I cant make it 11.0001 (+10) so foes that 10 mean it's adding 10% and to add 10% to 1.0001, or make it 1.0101? 

When I click apply values from the histogram I get a really uneven fuel map. 

Could someone who has a finished fuel map post a screenshot so I/we have an idea of what a finished map looks like? I know the timing map is kinda linear with bumps in it but I'm not sure what a finished fuel map looks like.


----------



## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

SGTphatboy said:


> I occasionally get a P0172 code too rich bank one
> 
> any suggestions?:beer:


I switched from the ev-14 550 file to the G2 630 file and Im getting the same code. Never got it before the new file/injector combo.

Searched, people said to look for leaks...Looked but everything has been replaced/deleted and seems fine:screwy:


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

DMVDUB said:


> Just to be clear, my issue sounds very similar to Matt Lopez's issue. I just don't have any rough idle. My care runs great just has wonky afr.
> 
> Here's a question,
> 
> ...


:facepalm:


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Like Spartai said
1.0 = 100%

1.10 would be a 10% increase.

Bro you really really need to do some more homework. Asking simple concept questions and attempting to write a tune a car with issues is just asking for more problems. I'm not trying to be a dick but if you don't understand fuel trims, %'s, correction factors & how ME7.5 even works go read some wikis, the handbook, efi articles online. :beer:


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Like Spartai said
> 1.0 = 100%
> 
> 1.10 would be a 10% increase.
> ...


I understand that.

I asking what the histogram is showing. Is it showing percentages or what?


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

...then use some reasoning. Its not that hard to see a value of 1.0001. The histo says 10. Click apply and it changes it to 1.10 

I don't know how you could take it mathmatically any other way? 

Seriously read more. If you read and undersood what I suggested you would have known that.


The only reason its 1.0001 is because of conversion binary coding or something..so in reality 1.0001 = 1


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

That's all I wanted to know... 

I just wanted to be sure.


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Whatever the values are in the histogram convert them to decimal equivalent.


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

DMVDUB said:


> Just to be clear, my issue sounds very similar to Matt Lopez's issue. I just don't have any rough idle. My care runs great just has wonky afr.
> 
> Here's a question,
> 
> ...


dont use main fuel. use fuel injection correction first and if you need to make larger than normal adjustments use main fuel. i've had good results getting my IC and BVC down to where it needs to be by use of trims then using injection correction to ween out the inconsistencies, while leaving main fuel at 1.0001.

of course alpha and tb vs airflow maps need to be setup before hand, as well as your maf curve if you are running one.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Rac_337 said:


> dont use main fuel. use fuel injection correction first and if you need to make larger than normal adjustments use main fuel. i've had good results getting my IC and BVC down to where it needs to be by use of trims then using injection correction to ween out the inconsistencies, while leaving main fuel at 1.0001.
> 
> of course alpha and tb vs airflow maps need to be setup before hand, as well as your maf curve if you are running one.


Ok, so I've got my fuel in line for the most part (a couple more logs and it'll be 100%). Though I have a new issue, it takes 2-3 cranks for it to turn over. By that I mean crank it over, turn key off and crank it again where it almost starts, then a last time and it starts right up. Doesn't do it when warm though. 

Spartiati,
Thanks, you've been extremely helpful! :beer:


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> Ok, so I've got my fuel in line for the most part (a couple more logs and it'll be 100%). Though I have a new issue, it takes 2-3 cranks for it to turn over. By that I mean crank it over, turn key off and crank it again where it almost starts, then a last time and it starts right up. Doesn't do it when warm though.
> 
> Spartiati,
> Thanks, you've been extremely helpful! :beer:


Sounds like you might be loosing your crank sensor.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

sabbySC said:


> Sounds like you might be loosing your crank sensor.


I'll check into it, it just seems that the tune made the difference. But, if it is the crank sensor that's no big deal. It could be an answer to the no crank issue I had before that suddenly fixed itself after a little tinkering but no major changes. Although I did lose all connection to the ecu for a bit, but changed out the fuel pump regulator and now that's fixed.

It is idling like it's got a big lumpy cam in it, when it's only an Autotech which I've never seen less than -20hg at idle and always had a smooth idle, nothing noticeable unless it was mentioned and not noticeable at all with the rpm at 900 - 925.


----------



## Matt_Dubbing_Lopez (Jun 10, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> I'll check into it, it just seems that the tune made the difference. But, if it is the crank sensor that's no big deal. It could be an answer to the no crank issue I had before that suddenly fixed itself after a little tinkering but no major changes. Although I did lose all connection to the ecu for a bit, but changed out the fuel pump regulator and now that's fixed.
> 
> It is idling like it's got a big lumpy cam in it, when it's only an Autotech which I've never seen less than -20hg at idle and always had a smooth idle, nothing noticeable unless it was mentioned and not noticeable at all with the rpm at 900 - 925.


I just PM'd you, we are both having the same issue. I use the "cam" expression to describe my idle once o2 corrections kick in. My A/R spikes while cruising at a constant speed to 17+, I'm gonna look at the IC first.

Sorry for not posting the code descriptions, I forget not everyone knows what the codes are off the top of their heads like me. :laugh:


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*3rd Gear Pulls*

Here are the last two logs I did. Block 32 read like this 0.0 and -1.50
For some reason though my A/F is still off, it wither reads at idle in the 15's or down in the 13's.
My O2 corrections are also all over the place.
Timing looks like it likes to do whatever it wants.
I've tried and tried to adjust things but to no avail. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdFVoLVBvWlY4elVqUjAxVC1LWUZkUGc&usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdDZrQ0xlSXFxbmFsYjctWTR1V3cxQnc&usp=sharing


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

When you turn up the boost I would lower that Timing curve in the quick tune before logging. Raise it until you start to see -3 corrections. Your Fuel doesn't look too far off I would try to make the small adjustments in injection correction to get the o2 corrections closer to +/-2%. I would go by -1% in those problem area's until it gets closer. If nothing is corrected from that then reset the map to what you had originally and try maf corrections. If MAF adjustment doesn't work then you may have an issue with calculated torque deviating from optimal torque too much and you'll have to make small adjustments as you would with IC based on o2 corrections since you don't have any actual torque values to go off of.

I would richen that mix at full load aswell to say 11.8 to be a bit more conservative.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Started a fresh file and it's running a lot better now that I understand the histogram. :wave:

Opened up my wastegate as much as possible too (almost the whole rod) to lower EGT as well.

Injection timing is the only fuel map I'm changing now and I only have rich spots, it's a little rough looking but I think a few more logging runs and it'll smooth out.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> Injection timing is the only fuel map I'm changing now


huh?


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> Ok, so I've got my fuel in line for the most part (a couple more logs and it'll be 100%). Though I have a new issue, it takes 2-3 cranks for it to turn over. By that I mean crank it over, turn key off and crank it again where it almost starts, then a last time and it starts right up. Doesn't do it when warm though.
> 
> Spartiati,
> Thanks, you've been extremely helpful! :beer:





sabbySC said:


> Sounds like you might be loosing your crank sensor.


Funny you guys mentioned this 

Driving along today...sputter sputtter dead:banghead: Called AAA, got it home, started right up. Classic sign of a dying g28 sensor. 

Swapped it out, and it starts right up. Tonight I am going to flash it with a fresh file and restart the tune, because I am sure for other reasons that thing has been flakey for some time (random stalls etc) and it screwed with the changes I made.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> huh?


Injection Correction is what I meant.


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Nj, that log doesnt look bad. Just adjust the fuel a bit. The timing oscillation isnt bad either.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> ... a dying g28 sensor.
> 
> Swapped it out, and it starts right up. Tonight I am going to flash it with a fresh file and restart the tune, because I am sure for other reasons that thing has been flakey for some time (random stalls etc) and it screwed with the changes I made.


You can log blocks 090 091 & 093 to get a gauge on how the G28 and G40 sensors are syncing up.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Stupid me forgot what file I used to do those pulls so now I am back at square 1



Dave926 said:


> Nj, that log doesnt look bad. Just adjust the fuel a bit. The timing oscillation isnt bad either.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> You can log blocks 090 091 & 093 to get a gauge on how the G28 and G40 sensors are syncing up.


Is there a list anywhere of the measuring blocks in Maestro? They seem a bit different than vagcom.


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

I would also like to see a tuned injection correction map from someone who has made a lot of changes for large injectors.


----------



## Matt_Dubbing_Lopez (Jun 10, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Your previous logs showed massive swinging o2 corrections (from positive to negative) which is not good. They should change in a smooth linear fashion.
> 
> The lumpy idle is what makes me think you still may have an issue. What leak did you fix?


Throttle body gasket leaked a lil so I replaced it. I changed the IC per Quintin (0.0596026). Idle is better but still once O2 corrections set in it'll stay at -22.23 and run to +8, go lean +18 and increase timing only for 2-3 seconds. Ill throw another log up. Throttle response still is slow.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3venMcTJVCNUlVNdFhOVTg2TFk/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3venMcTJVCNMWJhanhNRERSLWc/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## stockcarboy (Sep 3, 2006)

Being color blind really sucks i cant see most of the differences on the color lines on the data log files.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Dave926 said:


> Nj, that log doesnt look bad. Just adjust the fuel a bit. The timing oscillation isnt bad either.


Agreed, that looks much better than the previous logs we looked out. A/F & Timing is much more stable. :thumbup: Like Dave said dial in that fuel a little better and I'd starting inching the boost upwards then.

One question though, why is there no actual torque value calculated in NJ1.8T's logs? What determines when this value is present in the logs?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I asked tapp about that, and got a more or less "if your lucky you have it".

I used the me7 tuner wizard on mine, and except the occasionally jerky throttle it runs pretty good. The timing is less.jerky snd all over the place too


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

tuner wizzard = legit KFMIOP & IRL starting points


----------



## TheSilver337 (Oct 29, 2007)

NJ1.8T said:


> Stupid me forgot what file I used to do those pulls so now I am back at square 1


Just read it from the car Harvey lol!


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Getting ready to dial the tune on my car, with the e85.

The injection correction is all 1.0001, along with the main fuel.

My ltft sits at -1.7% after a 20 mile drive. Safe to say I can start I can start dialing in the fuel curve, or try to get it lower?

Using Bosch ev14 850cc injectors.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Dave926 said:


> Getting ready to dial the tune on my car, with the e85.
> 
> The injection correction is all 1.0001, along with the main fuel.
> 
> ...


Thats pretty ideal id say. Just make sure your injector pulsewidth looks healthy (min. set correctly) otherwise you won't get accurate results in the lower ms spectrum of the injection correction map.

.....e85 review ? opcorn:


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> .....e85 review ? opcorn:


No timing pull :laugh:

The dip in the timing is from wheelspin on the highway in 3rd, it was a little wet out tonight.









2 logs from tonight:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgMf58LTPUUodFJKemlnYzNBc1JpRldqM0RpbTdlWmc&usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgMf58LTPUUodHNxeWhad3JwS2RHYmhJSVVROTFTTlE&usp=sharing


quick chart for 02 corrections:


----------



## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

*maestro and LS2 coils*

anyone here using LS2 (D585) coils with AWP ecu ?
just ordered them and would like to know what have you changed in:
coil dwell vs voltage
coil dwell vs load
max coil dwell
also which spark plug and gap
(gt3082 turbo)
thanks !


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Leon mk1 said:


> anyone here using LS2 (D585) coils with AWP ecu ?
> just ordered them and would like to know what have you changed in:
> coil dwell vs voltage
> coil dwell vs load
> ...


Max coil dwell 5.5
For the dwell vs load(i believe this is the one the car primarily uses when driving.) and dwell vs voltage(I believe this is primarily used for startingthe car and a secondary cap yo max dwell based on voltage), You can just go in and highlight the entire map and add 1.5ms to everything. 2ms if you want it to be aggressive. I used the actual GM maps for the GMC Yukon. I believe they are posted in the d585 thread. 


As for gap maintain a. 028 or smaller. I run a bkr8eix on my small Turbo since it runs hot.


----------



## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

Thanks for the info mate
I runing denso ik24
I think they come right out of the box with .026/8 gap.


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Leon mk1 said:


> Thanks for the info mate
> I runing denso ik24
> I think they come right out of the box with .026/8 gap.


Always check the plug gap before installing. You Try to run the largest gap without having any breakups.


----------



## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

this time i will check
going to install new 1000cc genesis injectors with the LS2 coils and new set of spark plugs.
which coils are you runing by the way ?
i understand that i will be need custome ignition wire for the LS2 D585 ?


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Leon mk1 said:


> this time i will check
> going to install new 1000cc genesis injectors with the LS2 coils and new set of spark plugs.
> which coils are you runing by the way ?
> i understand that i will be need custome ignition wire for the LS2 D585 ?


Ls2 d585. You need Honda prelude spark plug ends unterminated. Then get the GM coil ends and crimp them on.


----------



## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

thanks !


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Was this latest update the Beta diagnostics that's like Vagcom? or did I just never bother to notice that? 

I wish they gave lists of what the updates included...


----------



## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> Was this latest update the Beta diagnostics that's like Vagcom? or did I just never bother to notice that?
> 
> I wish they gave lists of what the updates included...


Think so. Haven't ever gotten it to work tho


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

i think i got something new in the toolbar in the alphaN map..the letter A and it generates Y axis values for the airflow over tb map.

Or i missed it and it was already there?


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

robbyrr said:


> i think i got something new in the toolbar in the alphaN map..the letter A and it generates Y axis values for the airflow over tb map.
> 
> Or i missed it and it was already there?


It was always there, it is the tool used to generate the tb angle vs airflow axis whenever you adjust the values in the alhpa n table.


----------



## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

*maestro and LS2 coils*

i have 3 more questions
which color goes where between ls2 coils to ecu harness ?
what is the best option to connect between the LS2 coils to ECU harness ? (cut original connectors and soldering the ls2 wires ?)
and i also read that after the installation i will have CEL ? can i disable the CEL with maestro ?

i ordered some parts from MSD for DIY plug wire
LS1 Boots and Terminals
Silicone Straight Boots & Terminals
Super Conductor Bulk Wire 8.5mm

i will probably mount them on the valve cover with a nice bracket
your opinions ?

thanks


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Leon mk1 said:


> i have 3 more questions
> which color goes where between ls2 coils to ecu harness ?
> what is the best option to connect between the LS2 coils to ECU harness ? (cut original connectors and soldering the ls2 wires ?)
> and i also read that after the installation i will have CEL ? can i disable the CEL with maestro ?
> ...


If you mont them on the valve cover you will be exposing them to excessive heat, which will shorten thier life. I would mount them away from direct heat if possible.


----------



## Leon mk1 (Aug 29, 2011)

I know this is not optimal place for them,
But let's dont forget where the oem coils mounted.
anyway i prefer to mount them on calve cover and use shorter
Wires, unless someone can tell there is a major risk for the coils
On the valve cover
Thanks


----------



## D2O (May 12, 2012)

So I just got my car up and running with Maestro. I am pretty new with this so my knowledge so far is pretty (very) limited. Right now I am severely overboosting (30psi spikes!) on the F23. Is there a way I can quickly get this in check with the N75 (AutoX event is tomorrow)? I am planning on getting a MBC, but will take a bit of time to get. And yes - I will be running on the wastegate spring pressure in the mean time.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Screenshot your target filling map. You may have to lower the last column.


----------



## D2O (May 12, 2012)

Budsdubbin said:


> Screenshot your target filling map. You may have to lower the last column.












I am still running the AWP base file with only tweaks for the MAF (225TT) and injector size.


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Can someone with an 80mm throttle body and at least 1000cc injectors post a screenshot of their tweaked injection correction and main fuel correction maps???


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

whats your issue? State fuel trims. Problem area (if it might be idle or certain throttle positions). If Its idle whats your idle load o2 corrections during this time? Currect injector constant. Also are you running mafless?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

D2O said:


> I am still running the AWP base file with only tweaks for the MAF (225TT) and injector size.


Well you shouldn't be hitting that kind of boost on a target of >190 Have any logs? You may have to dial down your n75 duty cycle.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

I have a question about my idle issue I'm currently having.... Maffless, 910cc Inj, Torque at idle was I believe 30 last I looked.. 02 corrections at idle were -21... block 032 trims after 20 mile drive were 0 and .8 

I'm running the SEM 70mm alpha N, and TB airflow tables.. Only changes were I tweaked main fuel corrections, injector corrections using histogram averaging feature...

My part throttle and full throttle is pretty good, but my idle is horrible, running rich.. Any help on how to resolve this issue would be great...


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

One-Eight GTI said:


> I have a question about my idle issue I'm currently having.... Maffless, 910cc Inj, Torque at idle was I believe 30 last I looked.. 02 corrections at idle were -21... block 032 trims after 20 mile drive were 0 and .8
> 
> I'm running the SEM 70mm alpha N, and TB airflow tables.. Only changes were I tweaked main fuel corrections, injector corrections using histogram averaging feature...
> 
> My part throttle and full throttle is pretty good, but my idle is horrible, running rich.. Any help on how to resolve this issue would be great...


lower the first cell in alpha n while your engine is at operating temp. 

after you get corrections at full temp where you want them, adjust warmup fuel to correct cold idle corrections. thats what I have done and has worked well.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Rac_337 said:


> lower the first cell in alpha n while your engine is at operating temp.
> 
> after you get corrections at full temp where you want them, adjust warmup fuel to correct cold idle corrections. thats what I have done and has worked well.


Perfect, I'll give that a shot... Do I just lower by like 10% at a time, and log or what would you recommend??

Also If I lower alpha ne do I have to lower tb vs airflow table also??


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

One-Eight GTI said:


> I have a question about my idle issue I'm currently having.... Maffless, 910cc Inj, Torque at idle was I believe 30 last I looked.. 02 corrections at idle were -21... block 032 trims after 20 mile drive were 0 and .8
> 
> I'm running the SEM 70mm alpha N, and TB airflow tables.. Only changes were I tweaked main fuel corrections, injector corrections using histogram averaging feature...
> 
> My part throttle and full throttle is pretty good, but my idle is horrible, running rich.. Any help on how to resolve this issue would be great...


no way your idle torque is 30.... Possibly your engine load. Which needs correction.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> no way your idle torque is 30.... Possibly your engine load. Which needs correction.


Yes you are correct, it is engine load... Sorry:banghead:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

IM starting to think adjusting the main fuel correction might be better.

The other day my logs indicated -1 or so correction in certain parts of the map, mainly the high end .

Today, now it's -5 in the same spots. Adjusting fuel based on load seems to be a better idea.

Anyone comment this?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> IM starting to think adjusting the main fuel correction might be better.
> 
> The other day my logs indicated -1 or so correction in certain parts of the map, mainly the high end .
> 
> ...


Mine wouldn't run properly by only doing the IC map. I had to do the fuel map as well and now it runs 100%. With the IC only it would be -18 in one spot +16 in another and perfect in others. 

I've been able to make several different files using the first file once I had the fuel on point (just adjust the whole map up or down a few % ((for the most part)) for the boost increase and decrease). I now have a 12-15psi "eco" tune and a 20-23psi "fun" tune which are completely based on the same file, only the second has a bit more fuel and a 26-28psi + Timing "let's break something" tune, which is using the same bumped up fuel map plus some more timing and a more aggressive boost onset.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

At what point did you decide to adjust the other? Or did you just do it as you go sort of deal?

Just decided to adjust the tune by unplugging the evap thing to disable LTFT's. Lets see what happens now:laugh:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> At what point did you decide to adjust the other? Or did you just do it as you go sort of deal?
> 
> Just decided to adjust the tune by unplugging the evap thing to disable LTFT's. Lets see what happens now:laugh:


When I couldn't get my fuel trims to even out by just adjusting the IC I started to adjust the other. I go sick of it being all over the place. Now I've got a great platform to work off of for other stuff like my levels of tune and E85 mixes.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I just took a nice long log while on my way to work, and took my laptop with me.

Ill rinse it through main fuel correction. Stand by time in a AAA truck is nice lol.


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## D2O (May 12, 2012)

Budsdubbin said:


> Well you shouldn't be hitting that kind of boost on a target of >190 Have any logs? You may have to dial down your n75 duty cycle.


I do have a few logs - still wrapping my head around what it all means. For the boost duty cycle - I would lower this on the boost duty (and not the PID) map (sorry for my noob-ness)?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

D2O said:


> I do have a few logs - still wrapping my head around what it all means. For the boost duty cycle - I would lower this on the boost duty (and not the PID) map (sorry for my noob-ness)?


At first I suggest using the VE Map under boost (it's the line) to set your boost at levels you want. After that adjust the rest accordingly. The VE map will set your boost profile in a way that's very easy to understand. 

keep the first 3 numbers in the graph and then copy h 3rd for the rest of the cells (you'll have a fairly straight line). From there the boost should stay fairly low. Next raise accordingly until you hit your number.


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

Anyone have a issue with maestro, eurodyne flash and the logger working on Windows 8? Is there a work around for it? 

Got a acer tab last night to make tuning easier by not having to lug around the laptop...

Got them all downloaded but get a "unable to open this application" error. When I look at details, it's a "shim" error. Anyone had this?

Joe


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> Anyone have a issue with maestro, eurodyne flash and the logger working on Windows 8? Is there a work around for it?
> 
> Got a acer tab last night to make tuning easier by not having to lug around the laptop...
> 
> ...


Right click and try compatibility mode
Set the OS to windows 7


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

anyone have any luck/issues running Maestro using BootCamp on a Mac? I think I saw [email protected] doing it in one of his videos


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

RodgertheRabit II said:


> anyone have any luck/issues running Maestro using BootCamp on a Mac? I think I saw [email protected] doing it in one of his videos


Yes I run it in Parallels on my Intel MBP. Runs perfectly. I use it side by side with OSX too instead of rebooting in bootcamp. But yes you can do it either way.


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

spartiati said:


> Right click and try compatibility mode
> Set the OS to windows 7


Yep, figured it out. Seems to be working well! Still not used to Win8 and not sure if tablets are ready to take over the world but hope this is a better move than lugging the laptop all the time!

Joe


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Does the 2step work as the NLS as well?


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

got a question for all you veterans. my air fuel while building boost is at ~15 and at full boost its at ~13. I know this is too lean so whats the best way to correct this so that i can start actually logging my car without fear of running too lean? i have bosch white giant injectors and am running with the stock tt 225hp injector constant and compensation values 3 bar fpr and all other fueling components are stock. i have a 4 bar fpr available if i switch to that and re do the injector wizard will that make enough of a difference and accomplish what im trying to do? apologies for the lack of detail if you need more info i can provide it and if need be i can also provide logs as messed up as they are. thanks again guys. I can also attach my tune for someone to look at and tell me what to fix but i dont want freebes and someone to do it for me. thanks again guys


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

you have alot of learning to do.

Log some data, you might not have enough injector, or you might have a weak fuel system. Could be something else as well, but don't keep running your car the way it is. Figure out what is wrong first, it is not safe to run 13:1 afr under boost.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

sabbySC said:


> you have alot of learning to do.
> 
> Log some data, you might not have enough injector, or you might have a weak fuel system. Could be something else as well, but don't keep running your car the way it is. Figure out what is wrong first, it is not safe to run 13:1 afr under boost.


What is with the 1.8T community always tuning "rich" ? I'm Not saying that 13:1 is a is a good or bad number, but looking at the afr's I've had from friends cars, my car, and different tunes on my car, they all have one thing in common, Rich (Especially partial throttle and tip in to boost). 

Several of the people I know that run production fast turbocharged cars, EVO and WRX guys are tuning right on the edge of Stoio' 13:1 and right to the edge of 14:1 in boost. That said they have safeguards in place if something were to go wrong, not to mention hours of dyno and track and open road tuning. They're making pretty large numbers on mildly upgraded engines (bolt on's and slightly larger turbo's) and doing it reliably, while getting excellent mileage from them too.

It just seems that ALL of the 1.8t tunes are excessively rich.

WHY? 
-I know it's easier to stay "safe" if you're on the rich side, but extremes aren't good either way. Plus the amount of power that gets lost in a rich tune is ridiculous. I've saw gain in the 15+whp range on my car when it was running 9:1-10:1 to 11:1 on the dyno. The runs were back to back and the only thing we changed was pulling fuel. Now that I'm playing with E85 I have to reassess my AFR's but I was looking at tuning it for 12.5:1 - 13:1 in boost with w/m. 

Why does it seem ALL tuners for the 1.8t go overboard on fueling?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

All i know is my fueling is all over the ****ing place. 

Going to pressure test, and start from square one AGAIN.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> What is with the 1.8T community always tuning "rich" ? I'm Not saying that 13:1 is a is a good or bad number, but looking at the afr's I've had from friends cars, my car, and different tunes on my car, they all have one thing in common, Rich (Especially partial throttle and tip in to boost).
> 
> Several of the people I know that run production fast turbocharged cars, EVO and WRX guys are tuning right on the edge of Stoio' 13:1 and right to the edge of 14:1 in boost. That said they have safeguards in place if something were to go wrong, not to mention hours of dyno and track and open road tuning. They're making pretty large numbers on mildly upgraded engines (bolt on's and slightly larger turbo's) and doing it reliably, while getting excellent mileage from them too.
> 
> ...


Well if I recall the stock settings in maestro call for 11.9:1. That's not terribly rich. 

Going back before factory Turbo chargers were common, cylinder heads and combustion chambers were not as efficient as they are today. Their only means of dealing with knock and detonation was to decrease compression ratio, decrease timing and add fuel. Typically they ran 10.5-11:1. This was on the old foxbody mustang 5.0 v8's running 8.0 compression. Today motors are capable and purpose built to see boost on a daily basis. This why we are able to get away with higher compression and leaner conditions. 

With all of that said I shoot for 12.1:1 under full load. Sure I can probably go a bit leaner. Why risk it? I idle and cruise at 15.8:1 all the time.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> What is with the 1.8T community always tuning "rich" ? I'm Not saying that 13:1 is a is a good or bad number, but looking at the afr's I've had from friends cars, my car, and different tunes on my car, they all have one thing in common, Rich (Especially partial throttle and tip in to boost).
> 
> Several of the people I know that run production fast turbocharged cars, EVO and WRX guys are tuning right on the edge of Stoio' 13:1 and right to the edge of 14:1 in boost. That said they have safeguards in place if something were to go wrong, not to mention hours of dyno and track and open road tuning. They're making pretty large numbers on mildly upgraded engines (bolt on's and slightly larger turbo's) and doing it reliably, while getting excellent mileage from them too.
> 
> ...


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> you have alot of learning to do.
> 
> Log some data, you might not have enough injector, or you might have a weak fuel system. Could be something else as well, but don't keep running your car the way it is. Figure out what is wrong first, it is not safe to run 13:1 afr under boost.


Ya I'm still learning alot and came to you guys for some guidance. I swapped from stock injectors to 380cc because one was leaking and thats all i could get locally at the time. that being said when i was wot with stock injectors i was at around 11-12 afr so if im upgrading the injectors than shouldn't i be pushing more fuel? Im driving the car sparingly only to log and figure out whats wrong with it. Im pretty sure its not the fuel system either because i was running fine before i swapped injectors. anyone have some suggestions on what i can try to get rid of this leaning issue? It almost seems like i need to add x% of fuel accross the board because even at idle im running at about 14-15 which to me seems a little high.

edit


spartiati said:


> Well if I recall the stock settings in maestro call for 11.9:1. That's not terribly rich.
> 
> Going back before factory Turbo chargers were common, cylinder heads and combustion chambers were not as efficient as they are today. Their only means of dealing with knock and detonation was to decrease compression ratio, decrease timing and add fuel. Typically they ran 10.5-11:1. This was on the old foxbody mustang 5.0 v8's running 8.0 compression. Today motors are capable and purpose built to see boost on a daily basis. This why we are able to get away with higher compression and leaner conditions.
> 
> With all of that said I shoot for 12.1:1 under full load. Sure I can probably go a bit leaner. Why risk it? I idle and cruise at 15.8:1 all the time.


by looking at this I guess 15 isnt bad at idle. but its when im under load that im worried about i just dont want to leave it the way it is and then blow my motor next time i want to give the gas a little push


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

spartiati said:


> Well if I recall the stock settings in maestro call for 11.9:1. That's not terribly rich.
> 
> Going back before factory Turbo chargers were common, cylinder heads and combustion chambers were not as efficient as they are today. Their only means of dealing with knock and detonation was to decrease compression ratio, decrease timing and add fuel. Typically they ran 10.5-11:1. This was on the old foxbody mustang 5.0 v8's running 8.0 compression. Today motors are capable and purpose built to see boost on a daily basis. This why we are able to get away with higher compression and leaner conditions.
> 
> With all of that said I shoot for 12.1:1 under full load. Sure I can probably go a bit leaner. Why risk it? I idle and cruise at 15.8:1 all the time.


Good deal, and I got a little explanation from one of the guys on his tune

I got a fairly solid answer from my friend running the EVO. He is running 12:5.1 in boost and 16:1.1 Cruise, ~18:1.1-20:1.1 at idle. He said he continued to make power into the 13:1.1 ratio but it was negligible and the EGT's were getting too high to be comfortable. He's also running meth and has safeguards that essentially "limp" the car if it does anything funky.

BTW- I'm not arguing over better AFR numbers, just curious because this was a recent topic at the dyno. eace:


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> What is with the 1.8T community always tuning "rich" ? I'm Not saying that 13:1 is a is a good or bad number, but looking at the afr's I've had from friends cars, my car, and different tunes on my car, they all have one thing in common, Rich (Especially partial throttle and tip in to boost).
> 
> Several of the people I know that run production fast turbocharged cars, EVO and WRX guys are tuning right on the edge of Stoio' 13:1 and right to the edge of 14:1 in boost. That said they have safeguards in place if something were to go wrong, not to mention hours of dyno and track and open road tuning. They're making pretty large numbers on mildly upgraded engines (bolt on's and slightly larger turbo's) and doing it reliably, while getting excellent mileage from them too.
> 
> ...


Like Spartiati said, newer engines are more efficiently designed, and will run with higher AFR's.

What you really need to do, is tune on a dyno and adjust the afr to produce the best torque. Since we can't measure the combustion chamber temps accurately, we will have to assume a little extra fuel is safer. I'm the type who isn't a pro tuner, I don't like to go against conventional, time tested methods when it comes to tuning.

Out of curiousity, what afr do Gonzo's tunes target?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

sabbySC said:


> Like Spartiati said, newer engines are more efficiently designed, and will run with higher AFR's.
> 
> What you really need to do, is tune on a dyno and adjust the afr to produce the best torque. Since we can't measure the combustion chamber temps accurately, we will have to assume a little extra fuel is safer. I'm the type who isn't a pro tuner, I don't like to go against conventional, time tested methods when it comes to tuning.
> 
> Out of curiousity, what afr do Gonzo's tunes target?


They're in the 11:1.1 range if I remember correctly. Don't quote me on that though. I'd have to look at some finished tune dyno's to tell you. All of my tunes were test files and usually richer than the final product. 

I've come to the conclusion that no matter what you're doing you need to set aside time for dyno tuning. Ive got my car beautifully tuned for the street, but I guarantee I'm not making as much power as I can. I'd like to get a happy medium between the two. Since I like my car to feel like a "Stock" performance car on the street, I'm not sure how much I can get from just tuning for max power other than having a separate "race" file and slowly "merge" the race and daily files into one. If that makes sense.


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

Is there a way to change the lambda value in maestro from the 1.xxs to the 12.xx #s?

Ive seen it on some people's screen shots and would make things easier to read on the fly:thumbup:


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

I run base AFR (11.8-11.9) without w/m (just water) and 12.5 when using w/m (50/50).


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

RodgertheRabit II said:


> Is there a way to change the lambda value in maestro from the 1.xxs to the 12.xx #s?
> 
> Ive seen it on some people's screen shots and would make things easier to read on the fly:thumbup:


on the data logger?

theres a bullet on the right of the window that says afr or lambda.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

and for the convo i run my afr around 11.8 to 12 at wot. no w/m. This got me the best tq curve for my setup.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

cruzanstx said:


> Trying to adjust my idle, its currently at 10.0 afr at idle, underload its fine it sits around 12. My issue is that my Alpha N top blocks are all set to 0. do I remove 1.5 from that making it −1.5?





cruzanstx said:


> stock tb that came with the tt225





sabbySC said:


> Post your questions in this thread, try not to clog up space in this one...
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...g-FAQ-DIY-hard-data-and-advice-thread/page128



*cruzanstx* I quoted this here for you. 

Anyway to your problem, have you adjusted your bvc and ic for your current injectors? Running a stock TB, you should not be adjusting your alpha n map. The stock tb maps are dialed in well.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Rac_337 said:


> on the data logger?
> 
> theres a bullet on the right of the window that says afr or lambda.


For the record, e85 doesn't seem to like being rich. On a gasoline scale, I run it around 12.5, any richer it knocks. Research confirms this, as I've seen on some evo threads confirming this.


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

sabbySC said:


> *cruzanstx* I quoted this here for you.
> 
> Anyway to your problem, have you adjusted your bvc and ic for your current injectors? Running a stock TB, you should not be adjusting your alpha n map. The stock tb maps are dialed in well.


I haven't. I have 870s and thought the basemap provided from maestro for 870cc mafless were already dialed in. I'll do a search on the proper way to adjust bvc -> ic.

Thanks again.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

Kk gettin bvc in order. Now what is a good idle? And it is bad that I've had to make like 5+ -.05 adjustments to get in the ballpark? Seems like I was way off with the base file. Or am I misunderstanding the purpose of BVC?

The afr seems to be going from 16.2 to 16.9. Is that because the 870's aren't flow matched?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

Does the injector correction map have a correlation with load? If so what is it? when im at ~2000 rpm and floor it my afr's drop to ~10-11 which im happy with for now but they climp up to ~15 and then start dropping at ~3500-4000 rpm and settle to ~ 11-12 at around ~5000 rpm till i shift and they hold around there if i remain wot as i shift through the gears. The thing im worried about is when im cruising and floor it it leans out quite a bit. Im trying to figure out the correlation between the injector correction map and engine load. Any insite would be helpful instead of using trial and error.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I only use main fuel correction, with no more than 2% for changes in either direction. I didn't have much luck using injection corrections


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> I only use main fuel correction, with no more than 2% for changes in either direction. I didn't have much luck using injection corrections


Everyone is saying different things when it comes to this.

User X says use only injection correction for tuning 

User Y says use only main fuel correction 

Why is it so hard to get a straight answer when it comes to something simple like this?

It's hard to believe that both maps do EXACTLY the same thing so what is the real difference when tuning?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

polska_ts said:


> Does the injector correction map have a correlation with load? If so what is it? when im at ~2000 rpm and floor it my afr's drop to ~10-11 which im happy with for now but they climp up to ~15 and then start dropping at ~3500-4000 rpm and settle to ~ 11-12 at around ~5000 rpm till i shift and they hold around there if i remain wot as i shift through the gears. The thing im worried about is when im cruising and floor it it leans out quite a bit. Im trying to figure out the correlation between the injector correction map and engine load. Any insite would be helpful instead of using trial and error.


no but your on the right track with engine load:thumbup: If you look into flowmeter correction... Hmmmm how does the ecu determine airflow? If you read into the bosch documents regarding engine load you'd know that the flowmeter is the main influence on engine load. Obviously the ecu references a few tables to determine if the actual deviates from presumed load. Its up too you to be mindful of this and when you can notice certain instances of torque intervention your on your way.


Injection correction adjusts pulsewidths.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Why is it so hard to get a straight answer when it comes to something simple like this?


Because there are only a handful of people on here that actually do homework to figure things out.. The couple guys on here that know what there doing have spent hours in Nefmoto, trial and error ect.. Unfortunatly I'm not one of them as I've been out of town working 15 hr days so my weekends are consumed by doing things I should of been able to do on the weekdays:banghead: I have had good luck so far following Rac337 maestro tuning thread.. didn't have luck adjusting alpha N ect but by using Main Fuel corrections and injector corrections have worked ok...


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Everyone is saying different things when it comes to this.
> 
> User X says use only injection correction for tuning
> 
> ...


because there are many different steps to approach tuning various cars. You either learn, understand with time and patience or its not your for you. Me7 is just plain confusing to anyone you talk too when tuning. Seriously I've talked with many different professionals and without the car in front of them as they are viewing problem areas in real time its pointless. You have to have the ability to recognize and interpret the ecu and how its reacting in the problem areas. Then a tuner that knows what he's doing will develope a tuning strategy. 

Injection correction adjust injector pulse for nonlinear behavior. 
Main fuel is correction in fuel. Not sure how exactly its done but the end result is increased or decreased pulse. point is it doesn't really change load

I bet most of you are looking at Injector constant corrections or 20%. O2 corrections of +/- 15-22% at WOT. If thats the case you shouldn't be starting with your IC


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

anyone have issues trying to get Mastro downloaded/running on windows xp? I keep getting an error message right at the end of the download. Icons and directories seem to be there but they wont open.

Am I missing something?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> because there are many different steps to approach tuning various cars. You either learn, understand with time and patience or its not your for you. Me7 is just plain confusing to anyone you talk too when tuning. Seriously I've talked with many different professionals and without the car in front of them as they are viewing problem areas in real time its pointless. You have to have the ability to recognize and interpret the ecu and how its reacting in the problem areas. Then a tuner that knows what he's doing will develope a tuning strategy.
> 
> Injection correction adjust injector pulse for nonlinear behavior.
> Main fuel is correction in fuel. Not sure how exactly its done but the end result is increased or decreased pulse. point is it doesn't really change load
> ...


My issue was I adjusted ic perfect on a wot run one day, then next day when I went to do more logs for other stuff my corrections were all over. No where near where they were th day before.


Adjusting main fuel, well now it's much better.

Another thing I want to add, that I also learned the hard way is importing and exporting maps for the injectors.

With my 850s I initially just used the bvc values from the 550s and dialed in my injector constant based on ltft with main fuel and injection correction all 1.0001.

Even after many, many logs I had a nasty off idle sputter.

Imported the accel enrichment from the 750s, and it's much better now. 

My next step is to use the f21 file and mod it to suit, as I think the wall film factor isn't the same as the stock injectors, and it's causing drastic corrections after just coming down to idle and takes a minute to adjust.


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

Hey guys, I just wanted to know if I under stand this right.. I'm trying to set up a stage 1 BEA base map to run 630cc's on pump gas for the time being but in doing so and im not sure if I have changed what I needed so far but can some one give me a heads up on if I'm gonna have my head in my a$$ when I start this up or not. 

-The first thing is change the Injector constant to 0.052392.
-Next not sure if I needed to or not but as they are bigger chane the Injection Correction maps from a 630 on to the stage 1 map.
-Left the enrichment maps alone, decel maps, cranking, and full load maps. 

Will I need to swap the full load maps from a 630 base file? 

Befor anyone ask I'm trying to set this up on pump gas so later in the next month or so move to e85, I'm just having a hard time understanding a mass amount of info in this thread :laugh: great info but it's been stated 10x's over that you can do the same thing many differnt ways. 

Thanks for the help if any of you guys can point me in the right direction.


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

EDIT: Just needed to download Microsoft .Net 2.0 and it worked. only problem is now I can get to the base files to edit and save them but Eurodyne*Flash* wont connect to the ecu. Getting Error: "Could not get ECU info using CAN15764 protocol".... VCDS light works though.:screwy:

Update: As per Tapps email, Download .NET 3.5 and make sure all updates are done. Got it to talk to the ECU, just need to test and make sure I get some good logs.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> My issue was I adjusted ic perfect on a wot run one day, then next day when I went to do more logs for other stuff my corrections were all over. No where near where they were th day before.
> 
> 
> Adjusting main fuel, well now it's much better.
> ...



Injector constant is not the only means of correcting wot. If your getting corrections of 20+ LTFT's then you clearly need adjustments in other area's first. If you'd like to send me a log of idle, WOT, and lean spots email me your setup, BVC and IC. [email protected]


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

Dave926 said:


> My issue was I adjusted ic perfect on a wot run one day, then next day when I went to do more logs for other stuff my corrections were all over. No where near where they were th day before.
> 
> 
> Adjusting main fuel, well now it's much better.
> ...


What do you mean by "off idle sputter"? Also, why did you import the accel map from the 750s if you have 850s...? seems counterintuitive


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Please help tune for E85. 

I'm running low boost as of now and it's all good, but I'm not sure if it's searching for gasoline lambda and saying it's stoio' which would be bad. I know I need to be ~30% rich and it seems so far that my 550's at 5bar are working fine until I figure out what size injectors I'll need for 25psi ~330whp is what we're seeing at that boost and e85. 

Could someone give a quick rundown on tuning maestro maps for e85 to be safe. I'm not concerned with big power right now, just being safe until I figure the proper injector size.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Lambda is lambda. Its not 30% rich. It's ~30% more fuel for e85.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

RodgertheRabit II said:


> What do you mean by "off idle sputter"? Also, why did you import the accel map from the 750s if you have 850s...? seems counterintuitive


Just after letting the clutch out in first, maybe around 1400rpm. Since the 850s arent a "common" injector on maestroi decided to use values from them.

Tuning accel enrichment can be a real bitch. I did it on my ms1 16vt, and while doing it in real time made it easier its still not a fun thing to tune.

Keep in mind I am also using e85.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Just sharing...

I was able to succesfully use Eurodynes Beta Coding feature to recode my central conveince module for HID's on my mk5. It doesn't show the lines of code like vag-com but if you know the specific coding changes you can copy & paste them in.

:beer:


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## jetta021.8t (Feb 13, 2009)

Just had a quick ? . I was just tuned by a local shop yesterday and because of the rain we were not able to do many logs so he adjusted a few things and left the car run alil rich to be safe. I drove 1 1/2hrs home with no big issue . Wake up drive to work still not problem . Shut the car off then start it and the car just starts to stumble and back fire.. I try to press gas thinking its just loading up and it made no difference vac just goes for 10in to 0 with no rpm change. Any help would be nice as I'm still reading and learn this tune. 

I was able to put my uni 630 Ecu that I had back in to get the car back running .


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> Injector constant is not the only means of correcting wot. If your getting corrections of 20+ LTFT's then you clearly need adjustments in other area's first. If you'd like to send me a log of idle, WOT, and lean spots email me your setup, BVC and IC. [email protected]



I meant injection correction, not injector constant.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

jetta021.8t said:


> Just had a quick ? . I was just tuned by a local shop yesterday and because of the rain we were not able to do many logs so he adjusted a few things and left the car run alil rich to be safe. I drove 1 1/2hrs home with no big issue . Wake up drive to work still not problem . Shut the car off then start it and the car just starts to stumble and back fire.. I try to press gas thinking its just loading up and it made no difference vac just goes for 10in to 0 with no rpm change. Any help would be nice as I'm still reading and learn this tune.
> 
> I was able to put my uni 630 Ecu that I had back in to get the car back running .


I have had issues with the car 2 stepping at idle on occasion. Is your 2 step feature enabled because that's what it sounds like?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I a lost here, I flashed a file to my car then I went away for two weeks. When I came back I did some pulls. Now I want to trace them but not sure what file I flashed onto the car. Just wanted to ask is there a way to check what file your running on the car? Can I plug in Maestro and read to see what file is loaded on the car? 
Thanks for the help


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> I have had issues with the car 2 stepping at idle on occasion. Is your 2 step feature enabled because that's what it sounds like?


 Is your epc light on. Sounds like it could be 2 step or a throttle problem


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## jetta021.8t (Feb 13, 2009)

I was told by the guy that is tunning it that some of the blocks he was adjusting did not adapt right anyway so I guess he went to far and for some reason that one time of starting the car it finally changed. One more ? With tunes isn't it true that its possible to tune the car and he the AIT to rise . Some how my temps r at 70c. 

It did sound like it was on the 2step


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, Finally had to take my waste gate off and replace the gasket as it came lose and the gasket blew out. So my car was out of action for a little while. It took some time, to get that waste gate off and also the threads into the exhaust manifold were screwed up so had to re tap them. 

Anyways, I decided to do a two pulls with my base file and go from there. I did the tracing program a few different times with each different pull. But for some reason my cyl corrections keep bouncing up to over 3.00 to 6.00 

Here's my file and my pulls. 

File: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5hl_VunHpGHNWxRQTVkNF8wR1U/edit?usp=sharing 

Pulls: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdEoxN3BldUxKUUtDdGg1NHBfNURsS2c&usp=sharing 

Pulls: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdEh4ek9JV1oyWU1GQjliUUFvS3QtcHc&usp=sharing


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Not a bad looking set of logs. Still needs a little rinse and repeat to fix to fuel corrections, but not bad. 

I would use the logger and tracing histogram and pull a few degrees where its knocking. Do that till its minimized.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Gotcha, So keep doing pulls and then tracing till the cyl corrections comes down to a decent level of 0.00 to say 1.50 or so? 



Dave926 said:


> Not a bad looking set of logs. Still needs a little rinse and repeat to fix to fuel corrections, but not bad.
> 
> I would use the logger and tracing histogram and pull a few degrees where its knocking. Do that till its minimized.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

NJ1.8T said:


> Gotcha, So keep doing pulls and then tracing till the cyl corrections comes down to a decent level of 0.00 to say 1.50 or so?


 If you can get them all to be 1.5 or 0 that'd be impressive.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

How do I go about fixing the O2 corrections on Maestro. Which one is it that I can do the tracing and histogram on? Thanks for your help and assistance.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I prefer to leave injection correction at 1.0001, and use main load only


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

Is anyone using an integrated engineering intake manifold and 80 mm tb? I just want to take a look at your alpha-n map and throttle map. I'm trying to get mine to work be seems every time I try and adjust it runs worse than before.


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## SMOKii3Y (Jan 28, 2009)

a more simpler question: 


when i upload my base file (630cc) - how do i know if it is mafless? what do i need to do to make the file mafless?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

SMOKii3Y said:


> a more simpler question:
> 
> 
> when i upload my base file (630cc) - how do i know if it is mafless? what do i need to do to make the file mafless?


 Unplug your maf.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

polska_ts said:


> Is anyone using an integrated engineering intake manifold and 80 mm tb? I just want to take a look at your alpha-n map and throttle map. I'm trying to get mine to work be seems every time I try and adjust it runs worse than before.


 Did you import the tables from the sem and 80mm files? If that doesn't get close you will need to use a maf to log and populate the tables with the logged data.


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

So my new Pag set up had been running great since day one (base 630 file with Genesis G2 630s). However, the Last few days tq seemed to be down so I took some logs. Cyl #2 and #4 are seeing pretty drastic (and matching) timing pull values. 

Everything seems to be normal, havent changed anything since it started to act up. Comp test is good, 2.0t coils and and plugs looked ok (NGK iridiums), both about a year old. Thinking its the plugs but the pull is on 2 diff knock sensors and is identical so Im not sure. 


heres the log, It happens during idle and partial load especially when the Injector MS is about 3.5

Maestro Log 6/22


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Are you rrally pulling that kind of timing at idle? Check your knock sensors.


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

I plan on removing and re torquing them. What could cause one to go bad?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, did two more pulls with high humidity and also temps hovering around 90, Heres what the two pulls look like.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdFZhTGl2cTc1RURKNmNsVWlVcTV4NGc&usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdE03SElDQmpUWENwckgwSkhXSVJaa3c&usp=sharing


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> I prefer to leave injection correction at 1.0001, and use main load only


main load?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

RodgertheRabit II said:


> So my new Pag set up had been running great since day one (base 630 file with Genesis G2 630s). However, the Last few days tq seemed to be down so I took some logs. Cyl #2 and #4 are seeing pretty drastic (and matching) timing pull values.
> 
> Everything seems to be normal, havent changed anything since it started to act up. Comp test is good, 2.0t coils and and plugs looked ok (NGK iridiums), both about a year old. Thinking its the plugs but the pull is on 2 diff knock sensors and is identical so Im not sure.
> 
> ...



Your either your calculated load is off or your optimal torque map needs to be addressed for the timing pull. Your idle seems a bit ridiculous for 630cc remember that's total ms you have to subtract the bvc value ( based on battery voltage) from the total and that's your injector on-time. For instance my correct on time is .55 at 900rpm for 1000cc .


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

Well, I sorted the timing pull out. Redid the intake lines and made sure there were no leaks, changed, plugs, and fixed my coolant drip.

Now timing pull is within normal. Just need to iron out the swings from + to - corrections. Been running the base 630 vvt file with the BVC set for my G2 630s and trims are -7.7 and -2.3 respectively. Been thinking about using parts of the f21 file to pep things up.

Heres a log from today with a much happier motor: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As89XwxILorVdFVhZGJ6SE9ldktZUERnN0p6MUFtb0E


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

So, people using the VVT files to start with how can these be modified? I can definitley tell when it changes timing but I'd like to move it around on the dyno a bit to find the sweet spot. It seems for a hybrid spool isn't a concern, my concern is having this come on to help take advantage of the intake cam a little more and breath more at top end. I'm thinking if the cam timing allows for more flow then I may be able to get a little more ignition timing into the mix. Though with E85 I never really see knock, forgot to switch back to 93 file the other day and it pulled more timing than I've ever seen... surprised I still have an engine.:banghead:


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## SMOKii3Y (Jan 28, 2009)

I have a 2002 337 GTi AWP engine code 1.8T

im running a gt28 with 630s mafless

i originally put on the G2VVT BASE file and car felt great. was running a little rich but boost held strong and i had no backfire issues. I changed the file to the stage 3 630cc s4 mac to see if there would be a difference. BIG CHANGE. car wasnt running rich. idle was a little more steady. but the boost power was SIGNIFICANLTY lower than the original file. 

does anyone know the difference in these files? what boost levels are coming from these files? am i even supposed to be running one of these files?

OR 

how can i get the the proper file for my car with the boost levels from that VVT file ?


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

Are you runnin an s4 maf? If not did you import the awp maf maps from the other file?


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## SMOKii3Y (Jan 28, 2009)

I was.told.to.just u.plug the maf.

I have imported nothing. What should I import from what? 
Do you know which fil should be uploaded?


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

So I've read that DMVDUB and myself are both having sudden logging problems after the latest update. 

Anyone else experience this? I was suggested to run "Low speed" on the logger but still not any better


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

yeah mine's been crashing constantly.. i haven't been able to run logs very long before the logger crashes :thumbdown:


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

man, and I was reluctant to update it since I was having good luck:banghead::banghead:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

RodgertheRabit II said:


> man, and I was reluctant to update it since I was having good luck:banghead::banghead:


It keeps telling me to update Maestro and it uninstalls but doesn't install the update:banghead:

And the new Flash client / logger is fubar.


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

I sent a hint to Chris. hopefully we can turn this around in a timely fashion.

Of course, as soon as I get ready to start tuning this week...


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

Go go the restricted user area and manually download and install. Worked for me on win 7 64 bit

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

cruzanstx said:


> Go go the restricted user area and manually download and install. Worked for me on win 7 64 bit
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


That installs the oldest version. Look at the upload date right next to the file


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Disregard the time-stamps shown in the downloads section of their site. The files linked are always the most current.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I was plagued with connection timeouts forever. 
Here's what I do that works fairly well with minimal timeouts. Actually for the past week I've done 30 minute logs and never timed out once.

With the Ignition on, Engine off; open Eurodyne Flash
Select Slow communication speed (only speed I've tested) 
Wait until you get a connection and the data values appear in the logger.
Start the engine and proceed to logging.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

DMVDUB said:


> That installs the oldest version. Look at the upload date right next to the file





[email protected] said:


> Disregard the time-stamps shown in the downloads section of their site. The files linked are always the most current.


Yep Don't go by the date code... I don't use Maestro all winter and always have to go to the secure site to get the newest file.. I think I time mine out or something by spring


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

spartiati said:


> I was plagued with connection timeouts forever.
> Here's what I do that works fairly well with minimal timeouts. Actually for the past week I've done 30 minute logs and never timed out once.
> 
> With the Ignition on, Engine off; open Eurodyne Flash
> ...


That makes sense and is worth a try! 

Should be added to the non existent FAQ haha:laugh:

Just got this response from Chris:

On Jul 4, 2013, at 10:21 AM, Eurodyne support wrote:

Current flash version is 4.8.6
I just tested the 1.8T logger here, no issues.
There are plenty of tips in that thread from other users using it successfully, try them.
Also, on some laptops the logger will quit if it gets bumped due to some internal hard drive write protection.
There is nothing for me to fix in the software, because nothing has been changed.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

RodgertheRabit II said:


> That makes sense and is worth a try!
> 
> Should be added to the non existent FAQ haha:laugh:
> 
> ...


Strangely enough, I used my 5 year old beater Toshiba and it didn't lock up or have an error code once :sly:
I use my brand new MacBookPro with Windows 7 in Parallels and it works 1/2 the time... makes zero sense. 
It likes the craptop better than the nice one...


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Try this:

Go into the power options in windows 7 and turn off "Turn off hard disk after"

and 

Disable "USB Selective suspend settings"


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

spartiati said:


> Try this:
> 
> Go into the power options in windows 7 and turn off "Turn off hard disk after"
> 
> ...


Is this suggestion for everyone?


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

RodgertheRabit II said:


> That makes sense and is worth a try!
> 
> Should be added to the non existent FAQ haha:laugh:
> 
> ...


 The sudden motion/freefall sensor is what your talking about. I'm actually migrating to a ssd because of this right now. The drivers for my old hd don't allow me to turn this off.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

DMVDUB said:


> I use my brand new MacBookPro with Windows 7 in Parallels and it works 1/2 the time... makes zero sense.
> It likes the craptop better than the nice one...


Try this. Worked for me on my MBP. 

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1935

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> Is this suggestion for everyone?


Anyone with logging issues.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

cruzanstx said:


> Try this. Worked for me on my MBP.
> 
> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1935
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


HA! I totally didn't think about that! My Toshiba has it too, but Mac is so finicky at times.


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

just turned mine off. Comp sits at home unless logging anyways haha :thumbup:

hopefully better results today!


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

My Mac works perfectly if u run windows in boot camp. I run windows xp cause I only need it for eurodyne and vagcom. Not one issue. Works fast too


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

tojr1088 said:


> My Mac works perfectly if u run windows in boot camp. I run windows xp cause I only need it for eurodyne and vagcom. Not one issue. Works fast too


I deleted my bootcamp drivers  If I start it in bootcamp I can't do anything. I have to use Parallels, works great though and I can just swipe between OSX and W7.


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

tojr1088 said:


> My Mac works perfectly if u run windows in boot camp. I run windows xp cause I only need it for eurodyne and vagcom. Not one issue. Works fast too


This. I turned of my SMS and got much longer logs. on high speed even, will try low speed next.


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

cruzanstx said:


> Try this. Worked for me on my MBP.
> 
> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1935
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


forgot to say this doesn't work if you have an "after market" hdd like a Seagate Momentus-XT.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

i'm having a weird timing issue with my car.. it's maxing out timing pull with any load on the engine but it's not throwing any codes.. if i reflash my ecu it fixes the issue temporarily and runs perfectly but after a certain amount of time it starts pulling timing again with any load on the engine :banghead: 

any ideas? i don't understand why this happens, it can't be hardware related because reflashing my ECU fixes it..


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

dubbin_boho said:


> i'm having a weird timing issue with my car.. it's maxing out timing pull with any load on the engine but it's not throwing any codes.. if i reflash my ecu it fixes the issue temporarily and runs perfectly but after a certain amount of time it starts pulling timing again with any load on the engine :banghead:
> 
> any ideas? i don't understand why this happens, it can't be hardware related because reflashing my ECU fixes it..


Maybe need a new knock sensor.  Bad fuel? not 93oct?


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

DMVDUB said:


> Maybe need a new knock sensor.  Bad fuel? not 93oct?


both knock sensors are brand new and i always run shell 93 octane


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Are the knock sensors correctly torqued?


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

sabbySC said:


> Are the knock sensors correctly torqued?


yes @ 20nm i believe.. it's weird, i can sit at idle and rev the motor and watch the knock correction in the logger spike every time, but if i reflash the ECU with the same exact tune that's on the car and run it again it runs perfectly for a short amount of time until it starts pulling timing again


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

dubbin_boho said:


> yes @ 20nm i believe.. it's weird, i can sit at idle and rev the motor and watch the knock correction in the logger spike every time, but if i reflash the ECU with the same exact tune that's on the car and run it again it runs perfectly for a short amount of time until it starts pulling timing again


What is a short amount of time? Whats your fuel trims at after adaptation? Have you tried a complete base tune, non vvt just to test?


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

I had a timing pull issue last week. Knock sensors are not likely it, especially if they were just replaced. Use some Dielectric spray/grease to insure a good connection and make sure they connectors are clipped in.

When was the last time you replaced your spark plugs? Im pretty sure this cured my issue. I also when over my intake system to make sure it was sealed up.


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

sabbySC said:


> What is a short amount of time? Whats your fuel trims at after adaptation? Have you tried a complete base tune, non vvt just to test?


seems like a few key starts and it starts running badly again.. I'm running a non-VVT file, I haven't gotten the VVT files to run well on my car. my fuel trims have stayed at zero because I have all the emissions equipment deleted from my engine and I think one of my resistors is messed up.. 



RodgertheRabit II said:


> I had a timing pull issue last week. Knock sensors are not likely it, especially if they were just replaced. Use some Dielectric spray/grease to insure a good connection and make sure they connectors are clipped in.
> 
> When was the last time you replaced your spark plugs? Im pretty sure this cured my issue. I also when over my intake system to make sure it was sealed up.


I change the spark plugs every time I change the oil.. they only have a few hundred miles on them, and they're gapped at .025


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

dubbin_boho said:


> my fuel trims have stayed at zero because I have all the emissions equipment deleted from my engine and I think one of my resistors is messed up..


Fix your problems with the emmissions related issues. You need to get your fuel adaptations working correctly.

Did you ever have a working setup with no knock, or is this a new install where you are running into this issue?


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

hey guys

I recently went to 2.0L. beside the IC, what else should I look at for adjustment from my 1.8L tune?


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

spartiati said:


> I was plagued with connection timeouts forever.
> Here's what I do that works fairly well with minimal timeouts. Actually for the past week I've done 30 minute logs and never timed out once.
> 
> With the Ignition on, Engine off; open Eurodyne Flash
> ...


Worked like a charm today 20minute logs.:beer: 

Shouldve done this before the SSD swap but hey at least now my laptop boots fast.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Rac_337 said:


> hey guys
> 
> I recently went to 2.0L. beside the IC, what else should I look at for adjustment from my 1.8L tune?


I suspect ignition timing due to a difference in the bore/stroke, but certainly not something i woukd adjust until you start driving it.


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## privman (Jan 21, 2010)

Will maestro ever be fully compatible with mkvi (2013gti) ?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

privman said:


> Will maestro ever be fully compatible with mkvi (2013gti) ?


Most likely. Thats a pretty new vehicle, and VAG doesn't help tuners, so you will have to be patient.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I think on eurodynes site it shows compatibilty with tsi's. Only thing it it will.need to go to a dealer to get the initial flash.


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## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

Trying to find some options on a new laptop. My old one died. Do u guys know if the programs can run on an iPad. Thanks for any info.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

vwturbowolf said:


> Trying to find some options on a new laptop. My old one died. Do u guys know if the programs can run on an iPad. Thanks for any info.


Absolutely not. IPAD isn't a Windows OS it's not even a MAC os per sé, it's an IOS. There's also no USB on an iPad. You can run it on a Mac on Linux machine in bootcamp oe parallels /VM.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

stupid question time. What's the difference between a stage 1,2, and 3 base file. the stage 2 has 4 bar fpr. but there is a stage 3 with 371cc injectors and a tt maf. im having stupid problems with my car and im wondering if maybe im starting with the wrong base map. my fuel trims are all over the place and super inconsistent. idle is fine part throttle is ok but tip in and wot is where its messed up. plus when i let off the gas and just barely touch the gas my afr's will shoot down to like 10 and then settle back to 15~ when im cruising. I'm pretty sure i have some issues. Ive tested for leaks and fixed them all. Im not throwing any codes so im assuming that im fine hardware wise. anyone have any ideas? I can post logs and my tune if need be. here's a list of my mods:

-stock motor
-stock ko3
-stock maf
-700hp intercooler with 2.5" piping
-forge 007 dv
-aem tru boost elec. boost controller without use of the n75
-80mm throttle body
-intergrated engineering intake manifold
-380cc injectors (bosch white giant)


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

polska_ts said:


> stupid question time. What's the difference between a stage 1,2, and 3 base file. the stage 2 has 4 bar fpr. but there is a stage 3 with 371cc injectors and a tt maf. im having stupid problems with my car and im wondering if maybe im starting with the wrong base map. my fuel trims are all over the place and super inconsistent. idle is fine part throttle is ok but tip in and wot is where its messed up. plus when i let off the gas and just barely touch the gas my afr's will shoot down to like 10 and then settle back to 15~ when im cruising. I'm pretty sure i have some issues. Ive tested for leaks and fixed them all. Im not throwing any codes so im assuming that im fine hardware wise. anyone have any ideas? I can post logs and my tune if need be. here's a list of my mods:
> 
> -stock motor
> -stock ko3
> ...


That's your problem right there. You need to import Alpha N tables and Throttle angle vs airflow tables from the 80mm file into whatever basefile you are using. Also make sure you are using the stock MAF profile.

Considering you are on a k03 I would just throw the stock throttle body in there.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

polska_ts said:


> stupid question time. What's the difference between a stage 1,2, and 3 base file. the stage 2 has 4 bar fpr. but there is a stage 3 with 371cc injectors and a tt maf. im having stupid problems with my car and im wondering if maybe im starting with the wrong base map. my fuel trims are all over the place and super inconsistent. idle is fine part throttle is ok but tip in and wot is where its messed up. plus when i let off the gas and just barely touch the gas my afr's will shoot down to like 10 and then settle back to 15~ when im cruising. I'm pretty sure i have some issues. Ive tested for leaks and fixed them all. Im not throwing any codes so im assuming that im fine hardware wise. anyone have any ideas? I can post logs and my tune if need be. here's a list of my mods:
> 
> -stock motor
> -stock ko3
> ...


WHOA

Explain this further... Are you planning on going BT, making an E85 stock turbo record breaker (still need rods, fuel pump and bigger injectors) or what??? 

IE mani + 80mm TB doesn't meld well with the K03. The mani itself I doubt hurts anything, but I question how much there is to gain. The 80mm TB is also WAY overkill. 

So what's the further story?


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> WHOA
> 
> Explain this further... Are you planning on going BT, making an E85 stock turbo record breaker (still need rods, fuel pump and bigger injectors)
> 
> So what's the further story?


Haha it was bound to be asked yes everything at the moment is overkill im going big turbo this winter and just wanted to get everything set up. From the looks of it I made a good choice because running leam on the ko3 isnt as bad as running lean on a gt30. 

I have imported the alpha-n and tb vs airflow maps from the 80mm file and have also used the injector wizzard to calibrate my injectors. I am now running a 4 bar fpr and have adjusted everything accordingly. I looked into it further last night and it looks like it may be a problem with my requested lamda. Once I let off the gas req lam will hit about 14.6 afr (switched it to afr on maestro because I dont know which lamda numbers are good or bad.) If I just touch the gas req lam will shoot up to 11~. Im not sure if thats whats supposed to happen or if something else is up. 

Im running on the assumption that if one of my sensors (maf, map, knock, etc) was toast I would throw a code. I looked at lamda and it appears the weird spikes dont have anything to do with my maf reading. I started again from scratch last night and am in the process of tracing alpha-n and tb vs air flow. I checked my fuel trims with block 32 and it says theyre both within -0.8%. I will post a new log tonight though and hopefully someone can take a look and see whats up with it. If im missing any details let me know.

edit: just did some looking around and i think it may have to do with power enrichment? also what should requested lamda be on wot situations? on tip in my req lam is around 11 but when it reaches wot the req is at ~14. though my actual is slightly lower at ~13 im just trying to figure out is im now thinking properly and the problem is with requested lamda or if im still out to lunch and its something else. 

I'm assuming it should be something easy to fix because I really didn't change much on the car except for upsizing a few things. other than the intake track and injectors everything else is stock. and with larger injectors now i thought i would have been running rich and not lean thats whats confusing me. 

Last thing not sure if it helps but before when i would go wot my car would backfire on shifts. ive been re mapping alpha-n and that has started to make it go away.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Depending on how far off you actually are from the constant you could be wrong in your path too tune. It isn't always the same rinse and repeat with BVC and IC. Look at your wot and part throttle o2 spikes if they are 10-20%+ then your chasing your own tail and deviating from calculated krkte or injector constants.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Depending on how far off you actually are from the constant you could be wrong in your path too tune. It isn't always the same rinse and repeat with BVC and IC. Look at your wot and part throttle o2 spikes if they are 10-20%+ then your chasing your own tail and deviating from calculated krkte or injector constants.


Your 100% right my o2 corrections are like +-12-18% so do i look at my injector constants and bvc valuse to fix? is it basicly trail and error to solve it or is there a better way to do it? Thanks again for pointing that out atleast I know where to start adjusting.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

polska_ts said:


> Your 100% right my o2 corrections are like +-12-18% so do i look at my injector constants and bvc valuse to fix? is it basicly trail and error to solve it or is there a better way to do it? Thanks again for pointing that out atleast I know where to start adjusting.


My corrections were that high... and then I fixed my down pipe (the collector seperated from the pipe)


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

what do you mean by the collector? should i get a new gasket for it and see if that fixes it? everything looked fine when i installed my wideband and i tightened all the bolts down. maybe ill smoke test with seafoam this weekend. if that's not the issue though am i right in thinking the ic and bvc values are off?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I haven't checked the base files in a while. Compare alpha n tables and tb angle vs airflow tables between the 70 and 80mm files. I remember everyone was having problems because they were almost exactly the same. If this is still the case then this is your problem.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I haven't checked the base files in a while. Compare alpha n tables and tb angle vs airflow tables between the 70 and 80mm files. I remember everyone was having problems because they were almost exactly the same. If this is still the case then this is your problem.


alright I'll check when I get home. What would I do to fix it if this is the case? im tracing alpha-n and tb maps and there are only small variations in the 10-50% ranges +-~1 for trace histogram values max on average around +- .6


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Question:

At 28psi my AFR go lean and arratic,

At wastegate pressure 14psi, they are spot on at 11ish


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

derekb727 said:


> Question:
> 
> At 28psi my AFR go lean and *E*rratic, (spelling Nazi)
> 
> At wastegate pressure 14psi, they are spot on at 11ish


You're running out of fuel... If it can't be fixed via software it's time to look at HW. At least that's my philosophy


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Injectors are not maxed out. IDC is 84ish% max.

I haven't tried to fix it software wise yet. Just find it odd it's fine at lower boost. 

Also, the 044 is rated at 650crank. I doubt I'm making that much.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

derekb727 said:


> Injectors are not maxed out. IDC is 84ish% max.
> 
> I haven't tried to fix it software wise yet. Just find it odd it's fine at lower boost.
> 
> Also, the 044 is rated at 650crank. I doubt I'm making that much.


Then Histogram it and apply... sounds like you just haven't finished your tune.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> My corrections were that high... and then I fixed my down pipe (the collector seperated from the pipe)


and if it was an exhaust leak why would my corrections be so wonky at wot? i thought at wot the car runs open loop and doesnt take any readings from the o2 sensor so an exhaust leak would not cause the car to have such high correction values. just thinking out loud i may be wrong.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

polska_ts said:


> and if it was an exhaust leak why would my corrections be so wonky at wot? i thought at wot the car runs open loop and doesnt take any readings from the o2 sensor so an exhaust leak would not cause the car to have such high correction values. just thinking out loud i may be wrong.


It's just a suggestion, I'm not a guru. I'm just stating my experience.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> It's just a suggestion, I'm not a guru. I'm just stating my experience.


fair enough ill still double check it when i get home thanks. I think it might be something with my ic and bvc but its just weird that block 32 isn't showing larger corrections that only -0.8. does anyone know if the corrections in block 32 are just based of the average sampled values from stfm and ltft values or are they from something else?


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

What causes the ECU to pull timing besides knock?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

derekb727 said:


> What causes the ECU to pull timing besides knock?


Heat, over boost, lean


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

derekb727 said:


> What causes the ECU to pull timing besides knock?


lets not forget bad gas, old gas, and tuning errors. 

A local gas station I normally filled up at was caught selling regular (87 octance) as 93. I went crazy trying to figure out why my car all of a sudden went from pulling 3-4* at full throttle to 12*.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

polska_ts said:


> fair enough ill still double check it when i get home thanks. I think it might be something with my ic and bvc but its just weird that block 32 isn't showing larger corrections that only -0.8. does anyone know if the corrections in block 32 are just based of the average sampled values from stfm and ltft values or are they from something else?


Do not go crazy tuning BVC or IC yet! I just checked the alpha N and tb angle vs airflow tables between the 70mm and 80mm files. They are nearly the same. I had posted 80mm bins a while back but have since deleted them off of my dropbox. They helped some users with the same symptoms you are experiencing. If anyone has them and is willing to upload them I would try that out first.

Trace doesn't help with tuning alpha N and tb angle vs airflow too well.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

spartiati said:


> lets not forget bad gas, old gas, and tuning errors.
> 
> A local gas station I normally filled up at was caught selling regular (87 octance) as 93. I went crazy trying to figure out why my car all of a sudden went from pulling 3-4* at full throttle to 12*.


That's worth getting authorities involved. 

If that had wrecked peoples engines that station would be sued out of existence


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

so i think i figured it all out i adjusted my full load lambda map so that my requested lambda lowers sooner and going to test it tonight. only thing that still has me stumped is when i let off the gas and decelerate and coast for a but if i just barely touch the gas my requested lambda shoots to about 11 afr and then settles back to about 14 if i stay part throttle. anyone know which map i should look at to find this hiccup on?


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

DMVDUB said:


> Heat, over boost, lean


IAT Heat? Coolant Heat?

Overboost? how so?






spartiati said:


> lets not forget bad gas, old gas, and tuning errors.
> 
> A local gas station I normally filled up at was caught selling regular (87 octance) as 93. I went crazy trying to figure out why my car all of a sudden went from pulling 3-4* at full throttle to 12*.



Could drastic o2 corrections cause timing pull?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

What exactly are the Cam Position 1 & 2 timing maps? 

I've never touched them, only ignition timing...

Also the torque control mod... if it's on the ECU sees TQ or not? The wording is kinda strange.

With the Flowmeter "Line" map, it ends at 780 something kg/hr on the base stg3 map which means it can only go as high as 220g/s (rough numbers don't feel like looking at the conversions) If I change the MAF profile to TT225 (I'm using TT225housing w/ 1.8T sensor) it goes up some. What should I be doing here? 

I know this turbo moves 250+ g/s on my car, so shouldn't my MAF be set to read that properly?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

derekb727 said:


> IAT Heat? *YES* Coolant Heat? *YES*
> 
> Overboost? how so? *If you have boost set to a certain level (such as 15psi) and it consistently sees higher (22psi) it can pull timing and or limp (not 100% sure if Maestro still has the overboost maps in it, just hidden)*
> 
> ...


Timing pull is a last ditch effort for preservation of the engine. If you think of it as being alive :vampire: think of it like this, the engine gets scared (depending on deletes) it will, pull boost, slam the throttle shut, and retard timing. I'm sure it can do other things but these are the most noticeable.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Do not go crazy tuning BVC or IC yet! I just checked the alpha N and tb angle vs airflow tables between the 70mm and 80mm files. They are nearly the same. I had posted 80mm bins a while back but have since deleted them off of my dropbox. They helped some users with the same symptoms you are experiencing. If anyone has them and is willing to upload them I would try that out first.
> 
> Trace doesn't help with tuning alpha N and tb angle vs airflow too well.


Know where I might be able to start nagging people to get them? Im not even sure where i'd begin even looking other then trying to get them straight from eurodyne 

edit: looking online i might try the factory alpha-n and tb vw airflow maps and see what happens with that.

edit 2: spartiati i looked at an old post you made in 01-08-2012 this is what you did:

Lets see how the math works out. 

(59.5mm/2) ^2 * 3.14 = 2779mm^2
(60mm/2) ^2 * 3.14 = 2826mm^2
(65mm/2) ^2 * 3.14 = 3317mm^2
(67.25mm/2) ^2 * 3.14 = 3550mm^2

Assumed: 60mm vs 65mm = 17.34 % increase in diameter
Actual : 59.5mm vs 67.25mm = 27.74 % increase in diameter.

That's a pretty significant difference from the assumed values. 
This part I've been told is wrong and wouldn't work. Yes I know a MAF is the way to go but with no access to one at the moment this was all I could do. I increased all values in maestro for alpha N (except for zer0 and 100% load values) by 27.74%
I then decreased the throttle angle vs airflow maps by the same 27.74%

would i be able to do the same thing for the 80mm tb and get the same results if I can't track down the proper files?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I'll look through my emails and see if I have any 80mm bins. They were made by me but never tested directly by mr. Although those who had tried them said they were very close. This is where your problem lies. Do not use the stock airflow tables. Car will not want to idle and will be extremely lean.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I'll look through my emails and see if I have any 80mm bins. They were made by me but never tested directly by mr. Although those who had tried them said they were very close. This is where your problem lies. Do not use the stock airflow tables. Car will not want to idle and will be extremely lean.


Alright sounds good thanks again. Ill hold off using the stock files than.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Id like to try your 80mm bin as well if you don't mind.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

derekb727 said:


> Id like to try your 80mm bin as well if you don't mind.


I want to reiterate that I have not tested the bins. They will get you close but will need further tweaking. With all of that said i cant be held responsible. Please log log and log some more.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

polska_ts said:


> Know where I might be able to start nagging people to get them? Im not even sure where i'd begin even looking other then trying to get them straight from eurodyne
> 
> edit: looking online i might try the factory alpha-n and tb vw airflow maps and see what happens with that.
> 
> ...


That is wrong. The throtle plate is larger, but the relative change in air flow is variable throughout the range of the throtle blade. Also bear in mind the calculated values will be theoretical and depend more on the entire systems intake design.

I'm not a math egg head, so I can't give you the formulae to calculate the percentage difference. The most sensitive areas when using a larger TB are at idle and low throtle opening, as a small change in TB angle represents a huge change in air flow. As you approach full throtle the change is less noticeable, and is actually going to be limited by the intake requirements of the engine itself.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

sabbySC said:


> That is wrong. The throtle plate is larger, but the relative change in air flow is variable throughout the range of the throtle blade. Also bear in mind the calculated values will be theoretical and depend more on the entire systems intake design.
> 
> I'm not a math egg head, so I can't give you the formulae to calculate the percentage difference. The most sensitive areas when using a larger TB are at idle and low throtle opening, as a small change in TB angle represents a huge change in air flow. As you approach full throtle the change is less noticeable, and is actually going to be limited by the intake requirements of the engine itself.


I'd adjust the values for an 80mm tb plate and i understand it would only be theoretical but at least it would be closer than what i have now.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

What coolant temp and IAT would cause the ECU to pull timing?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

derekb727 said:


> What coolant temp and IAT would cause the ECU to pull timing?


Not quite sure


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## TheSilver337 (Oct 29, 2007)

There are tables for both that determine timing pull based on the set range for iat and also coolant temp. The default ranges are pretty fair and reasonable.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Ok that's what I thought. I've looked at both of the tables and I should not be pulling timing based on the temps my car sees. 
Any other thoughts for why car is pulling timing!?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

derekb727 said:


> What causes the ECU to pull timing besides knock?


Good question... Yes too much/too little timing, lean lambda or you've reached the knock limits of the fuel your running. Not sure if this applies to mafless setups, not sure why it wouldn't; but if your getting random bits of timing pull even 7 degrees at part throttle then you may either have to rescale your maf or you need to touch up your optimal torque map. If you don't have the torque model turned off at WOT in your diagnostics tab you may see timing pull aswell if not calibrated.

If you don't have a actual recorded torque in your logs then your going to have one hell of a time trying to get that straightened out.

If your running 23-26psi and your only hitting 187-191 or less engine load then your load calculation is off and the flowmeter needs adjustment. Every stage 3 base file I've seen out of maestro has been set at around 245% load limit if idk if you'll come close to that at 26psi.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Anyone have tips on getting decent gas mileage from Maestro? I switched back to a 93oct tune and I'm lucky to see 300mi to a tank on 550cc injectors and 20-22psi. On Gonzo's tune I was getting 400mi per tank or a little more.


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## TheSilver337 (Oct 29, 2007)

That's strange I get 400 to a tank even more if I drive like a grandma. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

TheSilver337 said:


> That's strange I get 400 to a tank even more if I drive like a grandma.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


I've got some map screwed up... my lambda never exceeds .90 on the richness side . I'm usually right on .98 - 1.05


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> Anyone have tips on getting decent gas mileage from Maestro? I switched back to a 93oct tune and I'm lucky to see 300mi to a tank on 550cc injectors and 20-22psi. On Gonzo's tune I was getting 400mi per tank or a little more.


Pfff i get like 15mpg with the ac on, 20 without.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

So in my logs knock cylinder 1,2,3,4 never says more that -3 in just one cylinder. but yet I'm only getting at most 9* in the upper rpm but the minimum the tune calls for is 16* given what load/rpm it is at. So I'm trying to find out why it is half what it should be.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Read my previous post^^^


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## seal66 (Nov 7, 2012)

*hi there guys*

So I have some Maestro question for you. 

I have a 08 B7 A4 6mt Q, and just installed a CTS ko4, IE drop ins, S3 injectors, with new main bearings and rod bearings. Did a break in, just to make sure everything was good. 

I have a file that was built by off a base file from chris from my ko3. I then had it modified after the break in period and a few very light pulls/ driving logs. I was wondering if anyone minds taking a quick peek at the File and the logs I did tonight testing the new file. I didn't boost hard since I am still breaking in my clutch and I wanted to see how the new file is acting on the car. 

Shoot me a pm, cause its late at night and trying to load up the Doc's and then post them is a pain. I'll send them to ya via email. Thanks


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Budsdubbin said:


> Good question... Yes too much/too little timing, lean lambda or you've reached the knock limits of the fuel your running. Not sure if this applies to mafless setups, not sure why it wouldn't; but if your getting random bits of timing pull even 7 degrees at part throttle then you may either have to rescale your maf or you need to touch up your optimal torque map. If you don't have the torque model turned off at WOT in your diagnostics tab you may see timing pull aswell if not calibrated.
> 
> If you don't have a actual recorded torque in your logs then your going to have one hell of a time trying to get that straightened out.
> 
> If your running 23-26psi and your only hitting 187-191 or less engine load then your load calculation is off and the flowmeter needs adjustment. Every stage 3 base file I've seen out of maestro has been set at around 245% load limit if idk if you'll come close to that at 26psi.



Okay, well I just looked at my logs and the highest engine load I could find was 185...I would guess this is my problem. My flowmeter needs adjustment.

I have no idea how to do that. Is it possible to do that without a MAF?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Post a screenshot of your alpha n , throttle vrs air then target filling. Just want to check if those are ok. Since your map cannot read past 22psi that could be your issue you've hit peak load the engine can read. So you have to think another way of adding pulse width at the same engine load in the higher rpm. Only way to do this would be the main fuel correction ( which may not be enough) I would add 15% just before peak boost in main at those engine loads then you may have to use injection correction to aid. It makes sense if your mafless there's no other way of load estimation.

Flowmeter adjustment will do nothing without a maf.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I'll look through my emails and see if I have any 80mm bins. They were made by me but never tested directly by mr. Although those who had tried them said they were very close. This is where your problem lies. Do not use the stock airflow tables. Car will not want to idle and will be extremely lean.


Any news on this? and not questioning your knowledge or anything but isnt the alpha-n map only active when the ecu is not using maf readings? so why are my fuel trims so wonky at all times and not just at wot? should I be looking at flowmeter correction? and if i should where do i start with it? how bad of an idea is it to use trace histogram on flowmeter correction and then smooth everything out.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Maf and speed density are used together. If the mad readings deviate from theoretical it will default to speed density. If they readings are spot on then they compliment one another, not exactly sure when one is used in certain driving situations but from what I cam tell in my logs part throttle acceleration coming from a stop or cruise for a second I believe it uses speed density, possibly because of the delay of maf response or being that speed density would me a more accurate calculation of engine load in that situation.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Maf and speed density are used together. If the mad readings deviate from theoretical it will default to speed density. If they readings are spot on then they compliment one another, not exactly sure when one is used in certain driving situations but from what I cam tell in my logs part throttle acceleration coming from a stop or cruise for a second I believe it uses speed density, possibly because of the delay of maf response or being that speed density would me a more accurate calculation of engine load in that situation.


Ok that makes sense im just trying to get everything working property. Ive richend up alot of my lean spots but theres a few situations when its still pretty lean. and then a few other times when my car will hickup. biggest time is then im decelerating in gear and come to a stop and if i pop out of gear the requested lambda will drop to about 0.8 and then go back to 1.0 after a few seconds. its really strange actually. im thinking it might have to do with a change of pressure at the tb but just not sure what i have to adjust to fix it.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

This WILL need refinement. It should run better than what you have been running now.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/spce2whdjr8df1z/qW7H3mgb7o


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

spartiati said:


> This WILL need refinement. It should run better than what you have been running now.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/spce2whdjr8df1z/qW7H3mgb7o


Thanks for that. It does feel like it runs better but my o2 corrections are still way high. ~20% at times. From block 32 my stft and ltft are 0% and -0.8% so i can see that they are fairly low so i dont know where to start looking. I'm still obviously learning but is it possible that messing with flowmeter correction would fix this? Im not sure how far my ic constant and bvc values would deviate from the theoretical calculated values but wouldnt they show a larger correction on block 32? Or am i just assuming that block 32 is always right spot on for telling you how much to adjust ic and bvc values? I've figured out how to fix my lean spots so i have less chance of ruining my car but im still stumped on the o2 correction.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

polska_ts said:


> Thanks for that. It does feel like it runs better but my o2 corrections are still way high. ~20% at times. From block 32 my stft and ltft are 0% and -0.8% so i can see that they are fairly low so i dont know where to start looking. I'm still obviously learning but is it possible that messing with flowmeter correction would fix this? Im not sure how far my ic constant and bvc values would deviate from the theoretical calculated values but wouldnt they show a larger correction on block 32? Or am i just assuming that block 32 is always right spot on for telling you how much to adjust ic and bvc values? I've figured out how to fix my lean spots so i have less chance of ruining my car but im still stumped on the o2 correction.


It won't fix it 100% with one go. You need to adjust airflow based on o2 corrections. You see the car adding X percent then you have to add the same percentage to the corresponding Alpha N and tb angle vs airflow cells.

To do this properly I would install a stock throttle body or a 70mm since we have airflow tables for those. Figure out the IC and BVC and tune injector correction. Then swap back to the 80mm throttle body and tune for airflow. At this point you aren't sure whether to adjust airflow or fueling stuff. You'll get there but you'll need some patience and alot of logs and revisions.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

spartiati said:


> It won't fix it 100% with one go. You need to adjust airflow based on o2 corrections. You see the car adding X percent then you have to add the same percentage to the corresponding Alpha N and tb angle vs airflow cells.
> 
> To do this properly I would install a stock throttle body or a 70mm since we have airflow tables for those. Figure out the IC and BVC and tune injector correction. Then swap back to the 80mm throttle body and tune for airflow. At this point you aren't sure whether to adjust airflow or fueling stuff. You'll get there but you'll need some patience and alot of logs and revisions.


alright ill slowly start tackling it but im still 100% stumped on why when i go into unthrottled mode and then the second i barely touch the gas my requested lambda drops to 0.8 and after a few seconds of part throttle it goes back to being 1.0. Ive checked through all the fueling maps and there is nothing that sets it off that bad.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Try using flowmeter correction for that if you have a bov on a mac set-up if not then injection correction


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## dubbin_boho (Dec 4, 2007)

well looks like i found my issue :banghead:


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Yeah that will give you some issues, nice find:thumbup:


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Maestro*

Is there a way with Maestro to adjust the accelerator pedal map to do what the sprint booster does at its highest level which in turn give you instant throttle with no hesitation? I have seen people lower it which kinda makes no sense to me but I would like to have instant response from the pedal itself!!


Thanks


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

NJ1.8T said:


> Is there a way with Maestro to adjust the accelerator pedal map to do what the sprint booster does at its highest level which in turn give you instant throttle with no hesitation? I have seen people lower it which kinda makes no sense to me but I would like to have instant response from the pedal itself!!
> 
> 
> Thanks


hopefully it has KFPED in there somewhere


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

NJ1.8T said:


> Is there a way with Maestro to adjust the accelerator pedal map to do what the sprint booster does at its highest level which in turn give you instant throttle with no hesitation? I have seen people lower it which kinda makes no sense to me but I would like to have instant response from the pedal itself!!
> 
> 
> Thanks


I made my pedal less sensitive and more linear. When you are coming out of a corner and increasing throttle input, you want a linear power outout rather than an abrupt surge of power. Look into the accelerator pedal map and increase the cell values.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

spartiati said:


> I made my pedal less sensitive and more linear. When you are coming out of a corner and increasing throttle input, you want a linear power outout rather than an abrupt surge of power. Look into the accelerator pedal map and increase the cell values.


An add-on to Spartiati's post, Don't mess with the top blocks, leave them Zero.



Ok, now for ME 

In the CARB (diagnostic MIL) section of Maestro it gives you options on what you want to disable CEL's for and some other things. 

Can I set it to 19 (I think that's it) for Lean so that the CEL flashes under lean condition but doesn't stay lit. Similar to a misfire. 

Would that have any adverse effect? 

I think it would be a good first reaction indicator if something went wrong (could be used for other things as well, there's a bunch of options...wish I could disable the CEL for my rear speed sensors and airbag light :banghead


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

This jerky timing curve is really getting on my last nerve










Though I think this is getting better:


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> This jerky timing curve is really getting on my last nerve


Have you enabled Maestro to ignore the torque model for timing calcs?


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Ok, so I went and took some logs, used the histogram to trace, then smoothed the graph out.

I have only made corrections to the injection Correction map. Could someone just look at this and see that it looks okay?

I have also loaded a pull I made.


P.S. I did a log in first gear and in one of the cells (1st gear) it went from 2800rpm to 8200rpm the next cell. Does that make any sense?

Version 1 of Injection Correction

2,3 gear pull


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Have you enabled Maestro to ignore the torque model for timing calcs?


No, i thought doing that would cause the car to run off the full load lambda map all the time. I prefer to run it off the power enrichment, and use full load when it gets toasty.

Its a base stage one file on steroids so to speak.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Your load calculation should be over 181 at peak load if your over 22psi. o2 correction shows it and so does erratic timing. Timing after top dead center at idle?:screwy: Load calculation is way off.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> This jerky timing curve is really getting on my last nerve
> 
> 
> 
> ...


have you not tryed fixing it in the timing maps?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Well its not erratic values in the map, thats for sure. I copied the timing map 1 values into 2, and thats the second graph that you see.

When i was all stock stage 1 file it was even worse. 5° changes all over the map.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

depending on your load values in those events yeah those timing maps can get choppy. I had a 2.0t fsi ko4 on maestro with a base tune. Timing advance was fine then tune settled in (fuel trims, load adjustments); then erratic timing from load changing and we hit parts of the map that were untouched. Fixed it since in both cam positions.


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

derekb727 said:


> Ok, so I went and took some logs, used the histogram to trace, then smoothed the graph out.
> 
> I have only made corrections to the injection Correction map. Could someone just look at this and see that it looks okay?
> 
> ...


If your sill running that tune from a car with similar parts as your car, stop 

Get a base tune from the library that closely matches your car and start from scratch.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> If your sill running that tune from a car with similar parts as your car, stop
> 
> Get a base tune from the library that closely matches your car and start from scratch.


I am, I will start try this.

Is there a reason behind this?


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

When tracing is there a way to quickly run through it so you dont have to wait for the entire log to play through or am I doing something wrong?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

derekb727 said:


> I am, I will start try this.
> 
> Is there a reason behind this?


Ill be honest, and dont take the wrong way.

That log is so ****ed up its not worth trying to fix the file. Use something like the 1000cc Sem file with the correct sized tb imported if necessary.



derekb727 said:


> When tracing is there a way to quickly run through it so you dont have to wait for the entire log to play through or am I doing something wrong?


No unfortunately.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> Ill be honest, and dont take the wrong way.
> 
> That log is so ****ed up its not worth trying to fix the file. Use something like the 1000cc Sem file with the correct sized tb imported if necessary.
> 
> ...


None taken at all. Care to give me a brief explanation of what all is f'ed?

I will post up the log from the new File tomorrow. I need to do a little service to my heatercore becuase I dont think it is flowing as it should.

Thanks for the headsup


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

well I went to the AWM base files in Maestro.

Downloaded: AWM.Stage 3. ID1000s.mstro

Then I added from: AWP_G2VVT_Stage 3. SEM Manifold. 80mm Throttle Body.EV14

Alpha N
Throttle Angle vs. Airflow


Is there anything else I should frankenstein in?

Thanks so much!


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

derekb727 said:


> None taken at all. Care to give me a brief explanation of what all is f'ed?
> 
> I will post up the log from the new File tomorrow. I need to do a little service to my heatercore becuase I dont think it is flowing as it should.
> 
> Thanks for the headsup


Seeing +20% correction says something is off by a mile on your calibration, assuming you finally fixed the hardware issues.

Also, the massive timing pull your seeing doesnt look right. But then again your desired vs actual lambda is 0.82 vs 0.89



derekb727 said:


> well I went to the AWM base files in Maestro.
> 
> Downloaded: AWM.Stage 3. ID1000s.mstro
> 
> ...


Seems right. I know someone on here mentioned that the 80mm stuff was the same as the 70mm stuff, when ideally it shouldnt. I think Spartiarti had a solution, pm him.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

spartiati said:


> This WILL need refinement. It should run better than what you have been running now.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/spce2whdjr8df1z/qW7H3mgb7o


Found em!



Dave926 said:


> Seeing +20% correction says something is off by a mile on your calibration, assuming you finally fixed the hardware issues.
> 
> Also, the massive timing pull your seeing doesnt look right. But then again your desired vs actual lambda is 0.82 vs 0.89
> 
> ...


I plan on working on it some tomorrow. I dont think that my coolant temps being 93-98*c has anything to do with it given the timing vs coolant temp is way higher.

I'll post back my findings after I work with Rac_337's guide//


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Thats the ideal temp, or at least where they normally run.

I assume that you fixed the cooling issues?


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> Thats the ideal temp, or at least where they normally run.
> 
> I assume that you fixed the cooling issues?


Yes I think I did. I just know the thermostat is 86* and looking at other people's logs I thought they had it under 90*


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Did a 30 minute log, closed log, went to measuring blocks while car was running, block 32 - 0's across the board.

Looks like I am not getting fuel trims.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

How did your requested lambda vs actual look?


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> How did your requested lambda vs actual look?




Well idk how close it should be, I am still adding 20% fuel. here are the logs I have

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8_cg_LOjMTIVXliWTJXOTEySVU/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8_cg_LOjMTIRVo5cWlxMTJBZkE/edit?usp=sharing

Interstate 3rd to 4th


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

derekb727 said:


> Well idk how close it should be, I am still adding 20% fuel. here are the logs I have
> 
> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8_cg_LOjMTIVXliWTJXOTEySVU/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> ...


Try this for fun.

Adjust your injector constant by 20%. 

I doubt the injector constant is set for a 2 liter, so give that a shot.


----------



## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

doing it now, will post back

Any thoughts why I am not getting any fuel trims in block 32?


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

If you had them before starting from square one, but dont now then doubke check all the relevant stuff is resistored and didnt come loose.

If not email tapp, but good luck with that


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

TIming pull is insane you need to back off timing.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

I appreciate all the help guys, I'm gonna just put the car in the garage for a little while. I've lost motivation. Exhaust leak is back and now the trans is starting to go. 
Maybe during the winter I will get some more motivation to make this thing right. Oh well.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Figured I could mention this,

I have been chasing my tail with my MAF for a while now. A couple days ago I unplugged it, and now my car is running like it's never ran before. It's got, power, it's got instant response, it's got toque, it's also linear and part throttle is fine. The MPG is back around 400 miles per tank. 

All of this with very minimal tweaking after the MAF was removed. I'm guessing I've been essentially tuning it without the MAF all along since the readings were so off. I really can't believe how much better it's responding. 

Now I just need to finalize my timing map (which I've learned that with some real work can make even a low boost setup very impressive). I'm adjusting all timing cells as high as absolutely possible without pull on 93oct without w/m on. 

After that map in finished I figure I can move this map over to E85/93oct blend I've been using (100oct) with ~10-20% increase in timing over the map (some places will have to be higher/lower). I've learned using the blend @ 40/60 blend to 50/50 (roughly becoming 100-101.5 octane) the fueling is quite easy to manage without going lean, even without changing injector size. If I run more than 50/50 blend @ 15psi-20psi I increase the fuel pressure to 4bar with 550cc injectors and haven't run into any issues until running 100% E85 at those boost levels. 

As it goes for the tuning aspect I've found that the 50/50 mix is quite easy to tune without having to change injectors (dependent on boost) and that timing can be run almost as high as running all E85. I've also found running 70/30 (E85/93) with w/m reduces the need for fuel adjustments almost completely and the benefits are awesome. 

I'm normally running ~15-18psi daily on the blend and it's like running 25psi on 93oct. I feel for daily use this puts less stress on my turbo, engine and setup in general while retaining all of the power. The only difference is you will notice a hit in mileage, but as a blend it's not bad. If you haven't tried it I suggest starting ~30/70 E85/93 if you're going to. Then once you've found that your injectors are keeping up you can add more E85 and more timing / boost until you're happy or start seeing excessive O2 corrections. Also at 30/70 you will start to see the benefits of the octane boost, but not so much as to go crazy with timing. It will though give you a feeling for what you will need to address in your tune.


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

Ok guys I drive a 2002 tt AMU with wideband conversion with the 870cc mafless tune on an AWP ecu with gt3076r with rods. I am running the base file from library with the only mods being to the BVC and IC using the STFT and LTFT. My block 32 is showing -6.0 and 1.6 in the STFT and LTFT. 

Using truboost EBC, not n75. not sure if this is my issue saw some post about "how to boost past 20psi on n75" but im not using it so wtf.

My issue is that for some reason I am consistently dropping boost/throttle slamming/limp moding at 20.5 psi. I took 2 logs of the situation and only thing that my noob eyes can see is wrong is that my timing is high, but Im not having any timing pull.

Can someone take a look? Thanks in advance.


3rd gear pull
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_yZ2ooSg2bZcmNyT1Q0NEdKelE/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_yZ2ooSg2bZUDVGTDVpZ3ZUZEU/edit?usp=sharing


edit forgot - map
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_yZ2ooSg2bZVFRsRE53UDRnMnM/edit?usp=sharing


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

One question I did have though is I flashed the car multiple times with the idle set to 1150 and it never once idled at 1150. Only 1000. Any idea what could have caused this?


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

Only thing I could maybe think is Cam Timing fault detection. All my CF's are 0 all the way through so maybe once it tries to pull timing it just limps out. Not sure if thats how that switch works but cant find any info on it.

Gonna try turning that off and doing a pull, I was running with basefile as is before and had no issues so maybe thats what it is. Only difference to mine and the basefile is I have all 02 sensor diag, Lambda, Misfire and Cam timing detection turned on.

Any help would be much appreciated. Did searching on this site and Audizine and finding no hits on this issue.


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

I took off Misfire detection and Cam Timing Fault Detection. And same issue happened always at 20psi, which makes me think its some setting in the tune im missing. Im not using N75 to boost though, using TruBoost solenoid, and Ive hit 28 psi before the o2 sensor fix. so no idea wtf.


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

cruzanstx said:


> I took off Misfire detection and Cam Timing Fault Detection. And same issue happened always at 20psi, which makes me think its some setting in the tune im missing. Im not using N75 to boost though, using TruBoost solenoid, and Ive hit 28 psi before the o2 sensor fix. so no idea wtf.


Is your peak engine load too high. Forgot what map in the boost control it is. Think its like max ve. Make them higher as that's essentially the limit the tune will let the engine load go too. And if ur boosting over 22 psi it'll try to adjust accordingly.


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## jetta021.8t (Feb 13, 2009)

Just a quick ?.. Is there a file for the r32 thorttle body ? If not should I use the 70mm or the 80mm?


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

tojr1088 said:


> Is your peak engine load too high. Forgot what map in the boost control it is. Think its like max ve. Make them higher as that's essentially the limit the tune will let the engine load go too. And if ur boosting over 22 psi it'll try to adjust accordingly.


thanks much for your response. 

my engine load doesnt hit requested, I think the highest it hit was like 180 when requested was 250's IIRC. my max ve is set to that same number also. 

I think I fixed it though but not sure wtf was wrong. I reflashed the basefile and used the BVC that I had before and IC and now no issues. Maybe a bad flash? either way its pulling strong with max 1.5 timing pull up top with 27 psi (highest I'll go since my boost guage can only see 28psi).


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Interesting find this weekend. I was looking through some base files and came across an interesting change between some. 

Opt timing map 1 and 2 are very different between the AMB, BEA and AWP. Now granted these were different cars (A4, MKIV, TT), but they all shared essentially the same motor. I assumed that they should be the same.

Has anyone played around with swapping the opt timing maps? All I have read about these maps is that they are theoretically the optimal timing to yield the most torque at 14.7:1. If anyone can elaborate further or point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it!:beer:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

spartiati said:


> Interesting find this weekend. I was looking through some base files and came across an interesting change between some.
> 
> Opt timing map 1 and 2 are very different between the AMB, BEA and AWP. Now granted these were different cars (A4, MKIV, TT), but they all shared essentially the same motor. I assumed that they should be the same.
> 
> Has anyone played around with swapping the opt timing maps? All I have read about these maps is that they are theoretically the optimal timing to yield the most torque at 14.7:1. If anyone can elaborate further or point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it!:beer:


Interesting. Must do some research. 



*Can anyone tell me what the two timing maps are for?* I only adjust ignition timing. Don't see how cam timing can be adjusted. I'm not talking about the VVT timing section either. It's the two cam pos 1 & 2 maps right with the ignition timing maps. What do these do?

*Also, can anyone give a good description on how to adjust target filling and torque maps? *They say that they should be reverse mirror images of each other, but I don't get it. I feel like there's something in there that could have a decent effect on my tune. I'm requesting 220-240 load a times (and have gone much higher) it seems to me that adjusting the Boost VE map to request (numbers are example) 250 @ 3500rpm shouldn't Target Filling match the levels of the Boost VE? I'm just afraid I'll screw the TF / TQ maps up. 

*More, What is the difference between the TQ control option and the other TQ control on timing option in the diag on/off section.* I've seen somewhere it can help tune everything else then go back and address those afterwards. 

As an update, I've given up on the MAF. I'm not spending anymore money on MAF's. I'm running great MAFless and my fuel trims couldn't be better! 

Does anyone also know what is the safest rail pressure to run injectors? I'm waiting on my ID1000's and I'd like to start working on my new E85 tune now. Is it safe to run 550's at 4.5-5bar? If I run them at 5 bar I can get 710cc's out of them (theoretically). I'm really just not sure if it screws up the flow pattern. I'd figure it'll atomize more. 

Found a new option for the Race timing profile, Nitrous Oxide  Lower timing for use of happy gas! and have the other file for no happy gas. I'm not like the rest of the VW community, I believe TQ in the Bottle is as good as it gets for weekend track days. It's actually dumbfounding since a 30shot of Nitrous is really more like 50-60whp and 60+wtq on turbocharged vehicles. Done right a 10lb bottle will last a long time and and extra 50whp on a 300-350whp car puts you in a whole new level. Add E85, and W/M and you have a recipe for 400+whp on a small frame turbo. E85/WM/CAM will net nearly (if not) 400whp on a hybrid without spray. Once I get my jeep back on the road I'm going to tear down the bottom end again as well as the head and see what E85/intake CAM/WM/ Bolt-ons/Nitrous can accomplish. I'd like to add a SEM mani into the mix but I don't think it'll make a big difference. I'm more thinking that I need to figure out how to get the exhaust flowing as freely as possible through the small K04 housing since nitrous is going to add a lot more emissions. 

I believe I'm looking at New Timing Belt (since head will be off), new EX valves and possibly opening up the exhaust ports a bit / maybe oversize valves, honing the block and adding new rings, inspect everything for signs of damage, and replacing rod bearings. I figure that'll make sure I'm safe before tuning and it won't cost much if anything. :wave:


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

The no timing influence above 100 percent load I always had checked off. This helps you always keep the timing advance as the map specifies without the torque model interfering with it. 

Maybe an easy way out but most people don't know how to dial in the torque maps correctly to achieve the timing they need anyways. Worked for me. 

Don't disable torque control altogether or the car will behave so poorly


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> Interesting. Must do some research.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As for the two optimum cam timing maps. I believe these are for when the Vvt is at either position 1 or 2 the tune will try to achieve optimum timing as specified in these maps.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

tojr1088 said:


> As for the two optimum cam timing maps. I believe these are for when the Vvt is at either position 1 or 2 the tune will try to achieve optimum timing as specified in these maps.


Thanks for the replies. I kind of thought the Cam timing maps were something like that. 

Thanks for the direct description of the TQ thing. I'm all over that one since I don't know how to do the Taget fill / TQ maps 

:wave:


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## SteelHeadBC (Feb 3, 2010)

So I'm trying to set in quick tune the Switching active box and its asking for a key.... I never got a key ... Or am I doing something wrong ?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

SteelHeadBC said:


> So I'm trying to set in quick tune the Switching active box and its asking for a key.... I never got a key ... Or am I doing something wrong ?


 it does that when you click immo defeat. I don't know why either


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## SteelHeadBC (Feb 3, 2010)

And also I have flashed a VVT550 file into my car and now it rev hangs bad .... so just for a test I put bACK in my stage 2 file and no rev hang .... I have no vac leaks at all ......Strange


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The two maps labeled "Optimum Timing Map..." are disabled. The only maps available to the ECU are labeled "Pump Gas..." or "Racing Gas.." The choice between these two is made in the QuickTune settings menu of the Flash Client.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> The two maps labeled "Optimum Timing Map..." are disabled. The only maps available to the ECU are labeled "Pump Gas..." or "Racing Gas.." The choice between these two is made in the QuickTune settings menu of the Flash Client.


 If you're referring to his "key" question I encountered it today when I clicked on the immo defeat optoin in quicksettings. I have a feeling the immo defeat is also causing my alarm, window controls from key fob and lock buttons to not work from the fob. (batteries are fine, it happened after the last update)


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

The torque model ( optimal torque map/ torque intervention) is turned off at wot situations only. Part throttle and idle torque control is still in effect when the override is enabled.


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> The torque model ( optimal torque map/ torque intervention) is turned off at wot situations only. Part throttle and idle torque control is still in effect when the override is enabled.


 What determines if a person should have this on or off??


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Of you feel the need to use the torque model and know how to calibrate it then go for it but leave it on if you can't. For wot it really isn't needed. That's my opinion though.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Some File Different Results*

First off, Thanks to everyone who has helpedme in this thread, without you I wouldn't have learned Maestro and the things I can do with it. 

Alright, I am running the following 
CTS Setup with a Precision 5558 Dual Ball Bearing Billet Turbo / Rods and all the good stuff internally 
4" inlet and 2.5" Outlet 
630cc Injectors 
BBM 6an Fuel Rail Internal Seiemans Pump and Extra Pump in Engine Bat so getting plenty of fuel 
TT225MAF 
2.0T Coil Packs 
3" into a 2.5" catback 
Stock intake mani and TB 

Here's what happens. I do pulls on a day when its about 85 degrees out, humidity about 75% and everything seems good, my block 32 is within good limits of about 1-3% 
I can run it and then two days later with the same temps and humidity and then I will get Block 32 of 7-9 

Not sure whats going on here and why it's screwing up Block 32 so much. 
So my next thought is should I go Mafless and see what happens there by starting out with the Base File and working it back up with some logging. 
Also how do I go about doing a long term log say for 30 minutes and then do tracing on that log to see how everything is? 

Heres the File I used on the days where the temp was the same and the humidity was about the same. 

File: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5hl_VunHpGHLTZnek5pOTJiN28/edit?usp=sharing 
File: https://www.dropbox.com/s/l03sy1akikp1naa/07282013 AWP TT225MAF 630cc.mstro 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdFJyQWpVaTJjSVRBR0J4emtGNFdscmc&usp=sharing 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdE5YaDNOQnJaUXU1UmhKdy1FeUUtbVE&usp=sharing 

P.S. If anyone has a good MAF and Mafless file it would be greatly appreciated, my email is [email protected]


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Does anyone know what ECU's work for a 2003 Jetta GLS 1.8T, Mine just got fried while reflashing a file to my car. Thought maybe a fuse or something but no, I used Vag Com to check the engine module and it wouldn't connect but everything else like central conv and instruments connected. Also does anyone have an extra AWP ECU laying around that they way to sell?


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> Does anyone know what ECU's work for a 2003 Jetta GLS 1.8T, Mine just got fried while reflashing a file to my car. Thought maybe a fuse or something but no, I used Vag Com to check the engine module and it wouldn't connect but everything else like central conv and instruments connected. Also does anyone have an extra AWP ECU laying around that they way to sell?


 The Ecu isn't fried. Send it to eurodyne saying the flash failed. It has to be manually reflashed on a bench. Happened to me twice but I fixed it myself


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> Does anyone know what ECU's work for a 2003 Jetta GLS 1.8T, Mine just got fried while reflashing a file to my car. Thought maybe a fuse or something but no, I used Vag Com to check the engine module and it wouldn't connect but everything else like central conv and instruments connected. Also does anyone have an extra AWP ECU laying around that they way to sell?


 Also try to take the Ecu right out of the car for 30 minutes then try to flash again. That's what Chris tapp will tell you before u send it out


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Awesome guys, thanks for your thoughts. I disconnected my battery but I will take the ECU out and see what happens. I sent an email to Chris and also Eurodyne and hoping they email me back tomorrow. if not I will try calling Eurodyne and see what they say. But If I did get another AWP ECU 06A906032LP, would I be able to put it in, read it and send it to Tapp and have him send me back the file would everything be ok or would I have to get it immo defeated


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, I decided to disconnect my battery for a few days and see what that would do, always thought it was a myth but it worked. I was able to read the Engine Module and also Flash a Maestro File onto my car. It started right up too! But now I am afraid to do any runs, adjust anything and then re flash it. So right now I am using the AWP 225TTMAF 630cc Base File. Thanks for your support and assistance! 
*If anyone has a greatAWP 225 TT MAF 630cc File I would greatly appreciate it probably more then anyone thinks right now. * 
*My setup is in my Sig below!* 

Harvey * [email protected]* 




tojr1088 said:


> Also try to take the Ecu right out of the car for 30 minutes then try to flash again. That's what Chris tapp will tell you before u send it out


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Harvey, just ditch the maf, imo it's not worth runing one.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

sabbySC said:


> Harvey, just ditch the maf, imo it's not worth runing one.


 i second this motion.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

sabbySC said:


> Harvey, just ditch the maf, imo it's not worth runing one.





Rac_337 said:


> i second this motion.


 Do you guys still use a big enough maf to trace your alpha n/throttlebody vs airflow maps?? Or can you tune these things without buying an s4 maf and tracing them???

Reason I ask is i tried running the 70mm alpha n ect and car won't idle for sh*t and when I come to a stop it runs so rich it dies..

So i used the factory alpha n and whatnot, got my LTFT to -.9 and 2... and set all my Main fuel corrections, and injector corrections to 1.0001 and car idles damn good. been using trace histogram and am still working on file but I have to pull so much fuel from them around 3500-5000rpm, 120-160 load as it was running exremely rich...

Anyway I would like your guys opinion should i invest in an S4 maf to trace my alpha n and whatnot to get it so I don't have to pull an ass load of fuel in that range??


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

sabbySC said:


> Harvey, just ditch the maf, imo it's not worth runing one.





Rac_337 said:


> i second this motion.


 So tuning the car to run in limp mode is a much better solution than keeping Motronic's main load input?


----------



## SteelHeadBC (Feb 3, 2010)

Here is my Setup and im looking for a File for it if someone can help me out ..... 

AWW Engine 
AEB Head 
W/Meth 
T3/T4 Turbo 
3" Turbo Back with no cat 
stock intake port matched to Head 
EV14 550 injectors 
3 Bar reg 
CTS Turbo Top mount exhaust manifold 
Mafless 
Stock Thotle Body 
Front Mount 


i have tryed the VVT stage 3 550 file and car had lots of power but had Rev Hang when you let off the thotle and made it hard to shift ... so i switched back to the stage 2 File and car runs good but dont have the power .....


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## tojr1088 (Feb 25, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> Well, I decided to disconnect my battery for a few days and see what that would do, always thought it was a myth but it worked. I was able to read the Engine Module and also Flash a Maestro File onto my car. It started right up too! But now I am afraid to do any runs, adjust anything and then re flash it. So right now I am using the AWP 225TTMAF 630cc Base File. Thanks for your support and assistance!
> *If anyone has a greatAWP 225 TT MAF 630cc File I would greatly appreciate it probably more then anyone thinks right now. *
> *My setup is in my Sig below!*
> 
> Harvey * [email protected]*


 Glad it worked for ya. Never worked for me lol.


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

One-Eight GTI said:


> Do you guys still use a big enough maf to trace your alpha n/throttlebody vs airflow maps?? Or can you tune these things without buying an s4 maf and tracing them???
> 
> Reason I ask is i tried running the 70mm alpha n ect and car won't idle for sh*t and when I come to a stop it runs so rich it dies..
> 
> ...


 Id like to know this too. I have a super rich condition, actually maxes out corrections, that occurs only under very low load or coming to a stoplight after cruising for a bit. STFT and LTFTs are normal, but I get a "rich Code" 

*The Problem was much wors when I tried using a vr6 (68mm TB) and a tweaked alpha N map. Im on the Stock TB now and the problem comes back, but takes longer. This leads me to believe the stock AWP alpha N maps dont coincicde with my hardware (OEM TT intake, AWP TB, g2 630s)? Thus tracing the alphaN with a MAF could spot the issue or correct it?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Ok, Once it stops raining here I will take the MAF out or should I just unplug it? So after that then I'll use the non maf file and have to do some runs to re adjust everything like timing and so on. Great, starting over from the beginning again. I'll ask, do you have a decent Mafless file I can start with and run till I get from NJ back to NC so if anything does happen to my ECU I at least have my shop and guys at Everythingeuro in Winston Salem to help me. 

Harvey [email protected] 



sabbySC said:


> Harvey, just ditch the maf, imo it's not worth runing one.


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

My mafless file is for 70mm tb and sem. 

As for the others, I didn't have to do much to my alpha n and tb/airflow maps to get my fueling to be good. 

For those with rich problems, have you tried adjusting fuel on decel?


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

sabbySC said:


> My mafless file is for 70mm tb and sem.
> 
> As for the others, I didn't have to do much to my alpha n and tb/airflow maps to get my fueling to be good.
> 
> For those with rich problems, have you tried adjusting fuel on decel?


 Which base file did you use??? I don't have vvt on my head and just used a different file but transferred the alpha n and throttlebody vs airflow maps to a the file I use now, and it is horrible so went back to my file that works... Just curious:wave:


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

I have vvt, but to tell you the truth I'm not even sure what base file I started with, I haven't touched my tune in 4+ months.


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

Im using a the g2 vvt 630 AWP base file. Tried non vvt and it killed spool up.


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## UFfitz56 (Oct 23, 2011)

jetta021.8t said:


> Just a quick ?.. Is there a file for the r32 thorttle body ? If not should I use the 70mm or the 80mm?


Ditto, anyone running a r32 TB and can post the alpha N?


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

Anyone have a file thats for the genesis 2 1000cc injectors and 80mm throttle body on a 2.0 Stroker?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

jettaman18t said:


> Anyone have a file thats for the genesis 2 1000cc injectors and 80mm throttle body on a 2.0 Stroker?


:banghead:

Use the injector wizard for your injectors, ask usrt for bvc values, and hit up spartiarti for the tb info. There was a way he calculated it that made sensor vs the 70mm tb


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Hey guys quick question, I know alot of people use a certain file and transfer the Alpha N and throttle body vs airflow maps over to there file...

I don't have a VVT tensioner just a normal plane jane AEB tensioner and was curious if I could just use the stage3vvt,70mm TB , sem IM base file and just set the cam timing map to all .00012... Would that be the only change I'd have to do to use that file 

Another question why do some base files have for example main fuel corrections at 1.0001 and some of the other files have them way different as in all below 1.0001 or way above 1.0001


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

One-Eight GTI said:


> Hey guys quick question, I know alot of people use a certain file and transfer the Alpha N and throttle body vs airflow maps over to there file...
> 
> I don't have a VVT tensioner just a normal plane jane AEB tensioner and was curious if I could just use the stage3vvt,70mm TB , sem IM base file and just set the cam timing map to all .00012... Would that be the only change I'd have to do to use that file
> 
> Another question why do some base files have for example main fuel corrections at 1.0001 and some of the other files have them way different as in all below 1.0001 or way above 1.0001


I'm sure you could run it. There is a big but though. even if you set the VVT to .0012, the ecu will still try and use the vvt on cold startups. There is no way of turning that off via Maestro. I don't know if the car will freak or not. 

In regards to the main fuel corrections it all based on the basefile, injectors used and MAF sensor/housing. It's essentially how Chris Tapp tuned that combination of parts, and tweaked the fuel in order to acheive proper airflow at varying loads, rpms, and Injector duty cycles.


----------



## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

spartiati said:


> In regards to the main fuel corrections it all based on the basefile, injectors used and MAF sensor/housing. It's essentially how Chris Tapp tuned that combination of parts, and tweaked the fuel in order to acheive proper airflow at varying loads, rpms, and Injector duty cycles.


So should I leave them set as they are in the file and do logs and adjust from there with histogram... Or do I set the main fuel corrections, injection corrections ect to 1.0001 and log from there??

Thanks for the help Spartiata


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, thanks to Sabby as last year he took the file I was running from Eurowise and did some work on it. He got me 5 different test files and also a file for running Mafless. I am going to run the file that is Mafless and just do some logging. I'll start off logging up to about 5500 rpms, see how it looks and then go up to 6000 rpms and so on till I reach that 7300 rpm range. To have the idle not jump around I raised it to about 980 rpms and that fixed that little issue. I will check the Main Fuel Correction and also the Pump Gas Timing. Is there anything else I can run the Histogram and Tracing on after doing logs?

Thanks Guys and Especially Sabby for his help over the past year!!




sabbySC said:


> I have vvt, but to tell you the truth I'm not even sure what base file I started with, I haven't touched my tune in 4+ months.


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

One-Eight GTI said:


> So should I leave them set as they are in the file and do logs and adjust from there with histogram... Or do I set the main fuel corrections, injection corrections ect to 1.0001 and log from there??
> 
> Thanks for the help Spartiata


I would suggest setting it to 1.0001.


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*BVC Values*

I did about a 30 minute drive and my Block 32 values were 3.2% and -0.8%. In regards to the BVC values and when adding or subtracting %, do you just do it to the top where it's highlighted in Blue or do you do it to both the highlighted Blue and also the White?
Also for the IC, do you take the 0.051837 and multiply it by 0.08? What would 0.8% be in just a number value?
Thanks for the Help and Assistance


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Don't touch your bvc or injection correction with fuel trims like that.


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Don't touch your bvc or injection correction with fuel trims like that.


Just to clarify, Budsdubbin meant injector constant.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

ok so leave alone the injector constant at 0.051837 and not to bring that up to a new something of 0.055983



sabbySC said:


> Just to clarify, Budsdubbin meant injector constant.


----------



## TheSilver337 (Oct 29, 2007)

NJ1.8T said:


> ok so leave alone the injector constant at 0.051837 and not to bring that up to a new something of 0.055???


If you want to completely throw everything off change the injector constant. Your block 32 would look completely different. Those numbers are not a reflection of a single value or table.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, think I got everything down to where I want it. I did a 30 minute log of Block 32 and the 1st block read -0.2 and the 2nd block read -2.3 so I feel good there. All I did was do a pull in third gear and then just did a histogram and tracing and applied values. Other then that, I raised my idle to get it smoother, changed up my rev limiter and over rev. I also did about a 30 min log just to see how that looked and all 4 cyls looked fine, nothing went over 1.50 which was awesome. Lambda also looked great.


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

Which maps did you histogram/trace just out of curiosity?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

NJ1.8T said:


> Well, think I got everything down to where I want it. I did a 30 minute log of Block 32 and the 1st block read -0.2 and the 2nd block read -2.3 so I feel good there. All I did was do a pull in third gear and then just did a histogram and tracing and applied values. Other then that, I raised my idle to get it smoother, changed up my rev limiter and over rev. I also did about a 30 min log just to see how that looked and all 4 cyls looked fine, nothing went over 1.50 which was awesome. Lambda also looked great.


Good to hear. 

IMO for the most part hardware issues cause people the most grief, getting a basic, reasonable tune shouldn't be that hard.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

All if did was the pump gas timing map. Other then that I set the Main fuel correction map to 1.0001 and injection correction to 1.0001




RodgertheRabit II said:


> Which maps did you histogram/trace just out of curiosity?


----------



## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

so you got those block 032 averages from just tweaking your timing map? Interesting.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

No I went back to the base Mafless file 630cc and used that file the way it was, just changed a few things like the rev limiter and over rev. But I drove it around for awhile and thats the values I got. So when I saw those values I did a 3rd gear pull and then did the tracing with histogram. I have yet to take it out for a long drive to see what happens with those values!I am sure the weather had some something to do with it as it was not a humid day at all. Today if I did it I am sure those values would change a bit as its in the upper 80's and humid her in NJ.

I wanted to ask about this:
which was posted by Rac_337 on his take of Maestro
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5775966-Maestro-7-My-guide-on-how-I-do-it.-(MAFless)

Now this is rather controversial, as i've been told not to do this by a few people on here, but it works for me and has no adverse effects that I can see on the tune. The reason I have modified the first row of these maps is so the computer has something to read from during idle. I found that without modifying these, the idle AFR hunts like crazy for target. I cant get a straight answer from anyone, including Chris Tapp on why this happens, so im going to run like this. Wrong or not it worked for me, it might not work for you.. so I suggest you try running first without this mod. If you notice AFR is hunting for target while correcting, try lowering min injector pulse width first before trying this. If anyone wants to suggest something else, feel free to post up and I will add it to this guide. If you do decide to modify these, make sure you make changes to both maps and that they are similar in values.

First, start the car and let it warm up and start correcting. at operating temperature, note the Throttle position value. Mine is 1.5%. If you notice the car at idle is too lean, or two rich, adjust the very first cell of alpha N (1000RPM, TPS 1.5%) accordingly. A higher value = richer, lower = leaner) Try to set this value ONLY ONCE YOUR CAR HAS REACHED FULL OPERATING TEMPRATURE! Why? because your warm up fuel correction map will interfere with this. If you try to set this when the engine is still cold, it will become very lean when it actually warms up!!!!
Another way to do this is to plug in a MAF and get the value from the sensor and plug this into the first cell, and then dial it up or down accordingly. Again, only do this when its warmed up fully.

Step 4: Part throttle fueling

Once you get your idle fueling right, its time to go out and start logging. First things first though. Go out for a long drive, 20 mins or so, and return to base. BEFORE SHUTTING THE CAR OFF, LOOK AT BLOCK 32 AND NOTE THE FIRST AND SECOND COLUMN VALUES AND WRITE THEM DOWN! Why? Because we are going to use these values to properly adjust your BVC and IC.
The first value is your short term fuel trim (STFT). From what I understand, this is the amount, in percent, that the ecu is scaling your BVC values by. So if you go for a drive and its reading -5.00%, this means that the ecu is subtracting 5% from ALL the BVC values you have entered. To adjust this, simply open your BVC map, and subtract 5% from all the values that are in MS using right click -> math functions. if the value in the column is positive, add this in percentage to all the values.

The second value is your long term fuel trim. This is a bit more complex, but still simple if you can handle basic math. This is the percentage amount that is being added or subtracted from your IC. 

If my IC is .037518, and my LTFT is +3.13%, you must find what 3.13% of .037518 is. 

3.13% is written as .0313

Knowing this, .0313 x .037518 = .001174. Therefore, .001174 must be added to .037518 to get the correct IC of .038612. This will be your new IC and you will never need to touch it again.

Again, if your LTFT is -3.13%, you will perfrom the same math:

.0313 x .037518 = .001174

Only now you must SUBTRACT from .037518, which will return the correct IC of .036344.
You can repeat this process as much as you like, 3 or 4 times should be more than enough. Once you do this and you notice STFT and LTFT stay close to 0% after a 20 min drive, you are done.

After this is set, I use my S4 MAF to trace my Alpha N and TB vs Airflow maps by driving around. These were pretty close to what Chris has entered, so I was able to just apply histogram values and leave it alone. To do this, log a long drive, and trace over your alpha n and tb maps.

After I get to this point and the previous items are completed, I adjust part throttle fueling via the Main Fuel Correction map. I have not touched Injector Correction Map at all, as I am using the values Chris has written from the 870cc base map. Some people have done it via opt torque map, but I was unsuccessful in doing so.

Next, go take a long drive and log. Once I finish logging, I open maestro, and trace my main fuel correction map using AVERAGE and not LAST VALUE. Just to note the bigger the log, the better and more accurate data you will have when using average. 

Once you trace, do not just apply histogram values. For fueling this doesn't work. The idea when creating fueling maps with fuel injection systems is to sculpt them so they are nice and smooth. Notice my main fuel map:








RodgertheRabit II said:


> so you got those block 032 averages from just tweaking your timing map? Interesting.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Please Come and Share your files. 
Put the engine code in the name and if you need help with the file there's a spot to post logs as well.
Let's get this thing moving and help each other. 
I confirmed today that sharing files works. 

Come to The Pandit Project, upload your file and let's see your work! I posted 2 random unfinished, but close files and Gulfstream uploaded a BT Stroker file. 

C'mon guys! Let's get this sub community going! 

We can use this forum for now to post what we need help with, while posting logs and files on Pandit. 

The more people that see the files the easier it'll be to help one another.

Click this link to The Pandit Project

All you need is a google account, I'm providing the space for sharing and it's fully public as well as free to use.

:wave:eace:


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I think this is a good idea,especially the way you have it setup with logs, files and so on!




DMVDUB said:


> Please Come and Share your files.
> Put the engine code in the name and if you need help with the file there's a spot to post logs as well.
> Let's get this thing moving and help each other.
> I confirmed today that sharing files works.
> ...


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

You guys need to stop making drastic changes to your injector constants.


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

I was just wondering what kind of coolant temps you guys are seeing on maestro logger? My temp sometimes gets above 93 celcius at idle. I do live in a relatively warm area and it has been warm out lately but I just want to make sure my car is not getting to hot. My temp gauge inside the car stays in the middle consistently and doesn't move up. I am also thinking of upgrading my fan for additional cooling.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

jettaman18t said:


> I was just wondering what kind of coolant temps you guys are seeing on maestro logger? My temp sometimes gets above 93 celcius at idle. I do live in a relatively warm area and it has been warm out lately but I just want to make sure my car is not getting to hot. My temp gauge inside the car stays in the middle consistently and doesn't move up. I am also thinking of upgrading my fan for additional cooling.


88-93 is what I typically see. We are around 90-100F ambient during the day.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I left mine alone st 0.051837 and thats where it will stay unless I get different injectors down the road. I just wanted to ask about what Rac_337 wrote about the block 32 and the IC and BVC. Does that make any sense or is that something thats a case by case scenario?

Also I think that The Pandit Project is a good idea for people just starting out and for people who know what they are doing. Its a great way to help out others!

[URL="https://sites.google.com/site/vwpandit/home"]https://sites.google.com/site/vwpandit/home[/URL]



Budsdubbin said:


> You guys need to stop making drastic changes to your injector constants.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Yes that would work but again to all that think that the values are kg/hr will match your actual air mass values obtained through the maf. That won't be the case they are values used in a equations based not only by throttle position and estimated airflow but also density, and charge temp. Idk why his values = actual air mass read. If you look in maestro tapps definition of the map will state that. Also for those who think that full load lambda and powerenrichment values are actual lambda values they are not. They are multipliers when 14.7 = 1 then .82x14.7 = 11.98 ish ( guess off the top of my head for the actual targeted lambda I'm lazy this morning).


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Knowing that will help e85 or alternative fuel tuning


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Here's my driving log of Block 32 along with my two pulls. Also I posted my file on the Pandit Project Link and called it 08192013 630cc Base Mafless.

3rd Gear Pull: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdHlLb0Z5NjlUdGpUWmItSW1HRlJrc2c&usp=sharing

Block 32 after Tracing and Histogram with the Pump Gas Timing: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdGJzRGtOby1nSzFIMndPWEFGd0k0UHc&usp=sharing[/URL]

I should have done another pull to see what the cyls readouts would have been but the rains came down so I will get out and do it again.








RodgertheRabit II said:


> so you got those block 032 averages from just tweaking your timing map? Interesting.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

NJ1.8T said:


> Here's my driving log of Block 32 along with my two pulls. Also I posted my file on the Pandit Project Link and called it 08192013 630cc Base Mafless.
> 
> 3rd Gear Pull: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aphl_VunHpGHdHlLb0Z5NjlUdGpUWmItSW1HRlJrc2c&usp=sharing
> 
> ...


Why is it adding so much between 5250 - ~6000 

it's going from ~1-3% correction to 10%+ @ around 5000-6000


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

My G2 630 vvt file does the same thing arond 5-6krpm but progressivly rises, not jumps.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Without reviewing the log, I'd say at 5k rpm you are seeing reduced load while at the same time seeing increased cylinder pressure. So to fix it you need to adjust your fuel correction table in that region.


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

sabbySC said:


> Without reviewing the log, I'd say at 5k rpm you are seeing reduced load while at the same time seeing increased cylinder pressure. So to fix it you need to adjust your fuel correction table in that region.


His load actual stays about the same, so I dont think thats it.

Few things i noticed, is requested lambda is too rich, too early. You dont need 11.94 afr at 2400rpms with 2psi.:laugh:

Maybe 13.5:1 afr till 4-5psi, knock it down to 12.5 by 10 psi. Set full load lambda to 12.0:1 afr. That wake the car up a bit.

Also, the requested afr varies a little in the logs as well.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

How would I go about doing this? I admit I am still learning Maestro and I will admit some parts of it is hard to understand. Also why is it adding so much between 5250 - ~6000 
it's going from ~1-3% correction to 10%+ @ around 5000-6000. How can I go about fixing this.

I really appreciate your guys input into this, it gives me the chance to learn even more which I like but at times I will ask questions on how to do certain things.



Dave926 said:


> His load actual stays about the same, so I dont think thats it.
> Few things i noticed, is requested lambda is too rich, too early. You dont need 11.94 afr at 2400rpms with 2psi.:laugh:
> Maybe 13.5:1 afr till 4-5psi, knock it down to 12.5 by 10 psi. Set full load lambda to 12.0:1 afr. That wake the car up a bit.
> Also, the requested afr varies a little in the logs as well.








Dave926 said:


> His load actual stays about the same, so I dont think thats it.
> 
> Few things i noticed, is requested lambda is too rich, too early. You dont need 11.94 afr at 2400rpms with 2psi.:laugh:
> 
> ...


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> His load actual stays about the same, so I dont think thats it.
> 
> Few things i noticed, is requested lambda is too rich, too early. You dont need 11.94 afr at 2400rpms with 2psi.:laugh:
> 
> ...


I agree. You can set your power enrichment to taper a bit more gradual as rpm increases. 

Also, the logs look good except for the massive correction. Try using inj. correction to add fuel in those ranges where you are seeing huge corrections. You should see it come back into line. If that doesn't work i would try either adding fuel via main fuel or of both of those dont work you need to adjust your alpha n / airflow in those ranges (99% tps and 4000rpm+)


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> His load actual stays about the same, so I dont think thats it.
> 
> Few things i noticed, is requested lambda is too rich, too early. You dont need 11.94 afr at 2400rpms with 2psi.:laugh:
> 
> ...


He is running mafless, thus at this point load is calculated/extrapolated. So using fuel correction table to reduce the corrections will work. Than after that is done, he can go after changing the full load lambda values to something a little leaner. Load staying the same while cylinder pressures increase, is the fancy way of saying you need to add more fuel to compensate. 

I personally think that a tuner should only change one thing at a time, and work systematically. Slow and steady wins the race when it comes to changing your tune.

So H. go ahead and adjust your fuel table in the rpm/load range where your logs show you having larger corrections. Than log again, see if the corrections come more into line. After that go ahead and drop your full load lambda values a touch and log data. Make sure that as you do each change you are not wandering into an unsafe condition.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Harvey, if you want I can send you a nice PE map/bin based on your boost curve, and a decent full load lambda map as well. I just need you to pm me your email.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Hey Dave, Sent you a PM and Thank you!




Dave926 said:


> Harvey, if you want I can send you a nice PE map/bin based on your boost curve, and a decent full load lambda map as well. I just need you to pm me your email.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Harvey, if you want I can send you a nice PE map/bin based on your boost curve, and a decent full load lambda map as well. I just need you to pm me your email.


How do you copy a .bin from one file to another?


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

You select the import map function under file in Meastro and you should be able to import it to your current file that you are using.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Beat the Heat said:


> You select the import map function under file in Meastro and you should be able to import it to your current file that you are using.


never works for me. It searches for a .bin but the files are all .mstro

I must be missing a step. 

I'd like to be able to import fuel and vvt settings from one file to another but it always asks for .bin...


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> How do you copy a .bin from one file to another?





Beat the Heat said:


> You select the import map function under file in Meastro and you should be able to import it to your current file that you are using.





DMVDUB said:


> never works for me. It searches for a .bin but the files are all .mstro
> 
> I must be missing a step.
> 
> I'd like to be able to import fuel and vvt settings from one file to another but it always asks for .bin...


You have to go to the file you want the bin from, export it. Then go to file your going to use, and import it.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

The file your in, theres two arrows up top red and green, they are basically your download and upload. Pic the fuel and export it, it will ask you where you want to save it. make a new folder on your computer called bin files. Save it tothat. Once thats doen, open the file you want that bin file to go to and then import it into your maestro file.




DMVDUB said:


> never works for me. It searches for a .bin but the files are all .mstro
> 
> I must be missing a step.
> 
> I'd like to be able to import fuel and vvt settings from one file to another but it always asks for .bin...


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

NJ1.8T said:


> The file your in, theres two arrows up top red and green, they are basically your download and upload. Pic the fuel and export it, it will ask you where you want to save it. make a new folder on your computer called bin files. Save it tothat. Once thats doen, open the file you want that bin file to go to and then import it into your maestro file.


Beautiful! Thanks!!


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Need a file for a gtx series turbo and 630cc Siemens with 2000 S4 Maf. Amu engine with awp ecu wideband swap.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Use a basefile appropriate to your hardware and tweak from there.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Appreciation and Help*

I just wanted to put this out there on this thread that a few people like Budsdubbin, Sabbysc and a few others have really helped me learn more about Maestro and have even taken the time to take a file I have been working on and fix it up to run better for the parts and turbo I run. 

I just wanted also to put another note out there that Dave926 has really been helping me no matter how stupid of a question or comment. He has taught me some new things to do to get my car running the way it should run and also how it should be enjoyed.

To all you guys, I just wanted to really say Thank You and I appreciate the help!! You have done alot I am sure with others but I haven't really seen any public Thank You's. 

So Thank You

Harvey


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

No problem Harvey.

Now post some logs and feedback on how it drives.


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

DMVDUB: I would like to thank you for setting up the Panda Project and just so you know this has saved me unknown amount frustration. For people like me where the base tunes offered by Eurodyne don't come close to working this is a life saver.

NJ1.8T: I would like to thank you for uploading your base file 08192013 630cc base mafless.mstro, this is currently on my car and it is very good for a base file. It still needs some tweaking but I don't know what you did with it but the difference between this one and the base one from Eurodyne is amazing. Thanks again.

I have a 2000 A4 with a GT28RS, 630cc Deka 2 injector, TT225 MAF (currently unplugged), with a AWM ECM and a Raceline harness. Before this the car was running the ATW ECM with a Stage 3 - 440cc tune from Uni and ran well enough. 6 months ago I bought Meastro and all of the parts needed to upgrade my car to wideband and then researched until I thought I was ready.

Almost everybody said get your base tune based on what you have and then start with the BVC and IC and then dial it in from there. Chris Tapp said the AWP files were the same as the AWM files but more options so I started with the non-VVT AWP 630cc TT225 MAF tune. I flashed this and let the car run and it wasn't too bad but the AF was all over the place but had a pretty steady idle that was a little on the lean side. I needed to get my adaptation numbers from block 32 so first I decided to drive around basically a city block and by the time I pulled up at my house my turbo was almost glowing. Light throttle at a low load the motor just ran like crap missing and the AF numbers were everywhere. From that point I tried different number for the injectors to calculate the BVC and IC and none of them made the car safe to drive. I read about 30 pages back that the AWP Frakenturbo 550 tune was a good base so I used this with the numbers from the injectors and it ran okay. 

At one point I flashed my ECM back to the stock tune because I only started it with the stock tune to make sure it ran but didn't drive it and it ran great but was pig rich on the AF right across the board. Finally the Panda Project was started and I used the base tune from NJ1.8T and the car ran amazing. My car needs a few tweaks but it is far better than the tunes offered. I need to tweak my idle, it hunts a lot with negative O2 correction and when I have a light load and trailing the throttle it will start to surge a little as I am on and off the gas. I am also seeing some knock under some conditions and there is a bit of hesitation at some points but it is pretty good for a base file. After the very first run I have had no boost so I think the TiAL 38mm wastegate stuck in place so it is hard to take a good log.

I have put about 160 kms on this tune so far and still no adaptation numbers so I have to look into this and see what is up. Here is a couple of light pulls and there is an idle log at the end. 

Thanks again to everyone who has put time into this thread because it really helps beginners get a grasp of what is happening. The information is here so I just have to put it all together and get this dialed in.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B29DP_cUk6zTai1DQ0FBWGdyQTQ/edit?usp=sharing


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

:beer:eace:


SpacedOutStar said:


> DMVDUB: I would like to thank you for setting up the Panda Project and just so you know this has saved me unknown amount frustration. For people like me where the base tunes offered by Eurodyne don't come close to working this is a life saver.
> 
> NJ1.8T: I would like to thank you for uploading your base file 08192013 630cc base mafless.mstro, this is currently on my car and it is very good for a base file. It still needs some tweaking but I don't know what you did with it but the difference between this one and the base one from Eurodyne is amazing. Thanks again.
> 
> ...


 :beer:eace:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DMV I uploaded a file, the stock turbo 1.8t one lol. 

Has anyone redone their dwell maps for the 2.0 coils? Might be a good bin to add to the panda thing.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> DMV I uploaded a file, the stock turbo 1.8t one lol.
> 
> Has anyone redone their dwell maps for the 2.0 coils? Might be a good bin to add to the panda thing.


I'm running .2 higher dwell on 1.8t coils 3.5max 3.2 is the highest in my dwell to load map. 

I've run 3.5 no issues. I don't notice any difference between 3.0 and 3.5. But I've been running 3.2 for months. 3.5 for about a month and in-between for i dunno how long. no issues.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I hope this doesnt create a ten page debate on coils and ****

I havent had a issue with my coils at all in almost 25k miles with mine at all. About 5k miles were really hard with the K03 cranked up good with tons of timing on e85.

Had about 10k miles on 1 set of bkre's running 0.024 for a gap, never had a misfire. Just recently changed them too.

They are just standard revision R pieces, nothing special.

If they ever poop, make no mistake Ill run LS2 coils, but until then......


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Has anyone redone their dwell maps for the 2.0 coils? Might be a good bin to add to the panda thing.


crazy.... i was just searching for 2.0 coils and dwell changes with maestro.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Hold on, I've still got one 2.0T coil in there. The rest died. 

Back to the new OEM revision 1.8T's never had a single issue with them. No arguing this issue. My experience. Also, .028 gap and I run 100%E85 or a mix of 93/e85 with w/m


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> What iTs your procedure for adjusting alpha N values?


Pretty simple. Up or down:laugh:



One of the last updates for Maestro allows you to trace anything you want on a map with a histogram. 

Start of with the basic stuff, make sure main load correction and injection correction are all 1.0001, bvc values and injector constant are dialed in

I trace using 02 correction, and make small adjustments to the Alpha N map based on 02 corrections. 

To cross check this to ensure its working, I run the data log though the main load correction map to see if the adjustments are working, but I dont apply them to the map. Just do it for a look-see. Eventually you will see the corrections on this map become better and better

Once the correction are reasonable, start making adjustments to the main load/injection correction.

I believe Alpha N should be used to 'rough in' the fueling, and the fine tuning should be done with either of the other two maps.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I noticed those new features, haven't tried them yet though.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Dave, Going to take the car for a ride today and do some logging and a 3rd gear pull and see how everything looks. I wanted to ask, can I also set the Eurodyne Flash module to low speed and just do a 30 minute normal drive with some little pulls in there along with just some normal driving and then look at the maps and see how everything is doing?



Dave926 said:


> Pretty simple. Up or down:laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I always use the fastest logging.

Once it goes over 976kb it just starts a new log, and all you have to do use it is copy and paste the top row that says (Time, Engine Speed, etc) and put it in the second log.

Once the first log is ran through, load the second one and your good to go.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> I always use the fastest logging.
> 
> Once it goes over 976kb it just starts a new log, and all you have to do use it is copy and paste the top row that says (Time, Engine Speed, etc) and put it in the second log.
> 
> Once the first log is ran through, load the second one and your good to go.


I just load the new log when the other one is done without closing the histogram and logger. Then continue to average. I think after 5-6 files it can get flakey though, not always.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

5-6 files gets me half way through my state.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Just gonna say this. 

With the new update, having the ability to trace over alpha n with O2 correction has made tuning a hole bunch easier. I started with a fresh base file on my 2L build, reduced decel fuel, set my IC and BVC and started by tracing Alpha N. After doing and getting that map in check for part throttle I traced some logs over injection correction. Car drives like a million bucks. 

So happy to have this function in place!


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Rac_337 said:


> Just gonna say this.
> 
> With the new update, having the ability to trace over alpha n with O2 correction has made tuning a hole bunch easier. I started with a fresh base file on my 2L build, reduced decel fuel, set my IC and BVC and started by tracing Alpha N. After doing and getting that map in check for part throttle I traced some logs over injection correction. Car drives like a million bucks.
> 
> So happy to have this function in place!


What have your benefits been with reducing decel fuel??? Just curious, and what have you done to the map, do you drop whole map by a certain %...

Gonna start over myself for the hundreth time and try the new feature, should make things way way easier:thumbup:


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

One-Eight GTI said:


> What have your benefits been with reducing decel fuel??? Just curious, and what have you done to the map, do you drop whole map by a certain %...
> 
> Gonna start over myself for the hundreth time and try the new feature, should make things way way easier:thumbup:


I just found it to be way too rich on decel. kept getting backfires at low rpm while shifting. after lowering it seems to have helped with the pops.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

What do you mean by trace alpha n with O2 corrections



Rac_337 said:


> Just gonna say this.
> 
> With the new update, having the ability to trace over alpha n with O2 correction has made tuning a hole bunch easier. I started with a fresh base file on my 2L build, reduced decel fuel, set my IC and BVC and started by tracing Alpha N. After doing and getting that map in check for part throttle I traced some logs over injection correction. Car drives like a million bucks.
> 
> So happy to have this function in place!


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Ricer question of the day 

I've been getting a lot of afterfire (not always a POP!) a big flame from the exhaust between shifts or lifting off of the accel' quickly. 

My Decel' maps are fairly low. 

I'm not sure what else could be causing this either... my fuel is on point too. +/- 2% max (if that). 

I'm not sure if it's been doing this and I didn't know it... 

All I know is an Integra pulled up next to me at a light and was going on and on about it. I then drove pass some reflective buildings to see if I could see it myself and hot damn! it looked like an afterburner. 

It's not constant, I can kinda guess when it may be happening... Since nothing is showing rich I'm not sure what's the deal. 

Ideas?? 

It does look cool, but I've brought my car back to almost OEM looks, hiding the FMIC behind the grills, and making my wheels look normal again no neon colors. Just a low, red Jetta with aftermarket wheels is all it looks like... the flames aren't helping keep my low profile.

I'm not really sure if I can keep going lower on the decel' map without it gettin jerky or having to retune the whole thing.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Rac_337 said:


> Just gonna say this.
> 
> With the new update, having the ability to trace over alpha n with O2 correction has made tuning a hole bunch easier. I started with a fresh base file on my 2L build, reduced decel fuel, set my IC and BVC and started by tracing Alpha N. After doing and getting that map in check for part throttle I traced some logs over injection correction. Car drives like a million bucks.
> 
> So happy to have this function in place!


Agreed.

Ive seen some files that have been floating around, along with the base files, with some of the values in the injection correction map or main load correction over 1.10xxx. 

I personally think that if the map requires that much correction, its a band-aid for another problem.

The more inline these cars are tuned to that way Bosch designed it, the better they will run.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Ive seen some files that have been floating around, along with the base files, with some of the values in the injection correction map or main load correction over 1.10xxx.
> 
> ...


Yep for sure. 

I had my old file with high inj. correction, but the maf input circuit on my ECU is messed so I had no way of calibrating alpha n. Now I do, I will recommend that everyone does this on a mafless tune before anything else. :beer:


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Rac_337 said:


> Yep for sure.
> 
> I had my old file with high inj. correction, but the maf input circuit on my ECU is messed so I had no way of calibrating alpha n. Now I do, I will recommend that everyone does this on a mafless tune before anything else. :beer:


Rac, do you have to make changes to throttle vs airflow map also since they work hand in hand???


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

When the MAF is unplugged it doesnt trace at all.

Either way all you have to change is the axis, and Maestro generates that for you


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## 96vrt (Sep 27, 2011)

So I after reading the posts about data trace tuning the alpha n I decided to start over on my a 2004 Audi A4 with a 2.1 (TDi crank) aeb head with Springs and retainers and alloy valves with a precision ball bearing 5857. Mafless with return style fueling. My I.c. Is right on with the base file after using the wizard for my I. D. 1000. Sits at idle with 0, 02 correction. The results at loads under 100 percent and rpm under 5000 are great. I am boosting around 30 psi and I am going to need to add more fuel at high load, high rpm. 
My question is should I use the injection correction map to do the final adjustments or Use the Main fuel correction which would seem to work better it has load as one of the calculators. If both what order have you had success. I know there are different ways that will work but what is the best. Thank you ahead for any advice. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

WiKKiDTT said:


> Need a file for a gtx series turbo and 630cc Siemens with 2000 S4 Maf. Amu engine with awp ecu wideband swap.


this


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I wanted to ask since Dave926 pointed out a few things to where my rev limiter is set at 7300 rpms. On alot of the Maps you can see where the RPM's only go up to 6000 rpms or 6500 rpms.
He had me tune the Power Enrichment up to my 7300rpms and also Full Load Lambda up to 7300rpms.
But what about the rest of the Maps, do you adjust them too or just leave them alone?

Say for instance the following:

Timing correction for air temp 6520 rpms
Main Fuel Correction 6360 rpms
Alpha N 6000 rpms
Injection Correction 9000 rpms
Power Enrichment 6520rpms
Flowmeter Correction 6000rpms
Boost Duty and Boost PID 7000 rpms
Optimum engine torque 6520 rpms


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Set the injection correction to 7400

The ecu will follow the value specified in the last cell. On certain maps it really doesnt make a difference, such timing correction for intake temp.

Other maps like injection correction, main load correction, or timing the less unused cells the better.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Logs*

Dave, Here's one of the 3rd gear pulls I was able to do today. It was kinda hard to find a location since there were people allover every road I use to do a pull. It started out -3.75 in Knock cyl 2 right off the bat, then it went down to -2.25 but ended up -3.75 to finish. I'll email you the file and also the log so if you want to look at it and see why that cyl 2 acted that way as I have now idea. My block 32 was -1.3% and 0.0%


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqnxPHwXZhBydHh5TjBLYm5UVlJlaUFIWUlyWDN0WHc&usp=sharing


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Ok so I'm trying to dial in my tune. Why are my O2 corrections so crazy at idle??

Here is a log of driving to the store. Have some idle and some regular driving. Let me know what you guys think.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4K4a6d_RyXjaXFHRXNNMk1WcWc/edit?usp=sharing


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## 96vrt (Sep 27, 2011)

When starting over with a base tune and preparing to do a Mafless tune, on a 2.1 build AWM, AEB head, with a precision 5857, S4 T. B. should I put the full load Lamda map to all 1.0001 like the main fuel and injection correction before data logging and tracing the alpha n? 

After getting dialing in the alpha N which fuel map should I start with to load tune fuel over the 99 percent load the alpha n map tops out at Full load Lamda or main fuel. I have always left the full load Lamda map as it comes in the base file. So if it gets put to 1.0001??? it would appear it needs re traced for optimum fuel enrichment under load. Or maybe let it be as it comes and use injection correction and main fuel to do the little changes??? 

I am hoping someone understands what and when the me7 is looking for first when looking out side the alpha N map. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Full load lambda is a target map, not correction. Power enrichment is also a target lambda map, before egt protection kicks on.

Main fuel and injection correction are adjustments made to minimize trims done by the oxygen sensor.


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## 96vrt (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks Dave. I should have remembered that difference. That is why it isn't grouped the other fuel maps. 
One of the reasons I questioned it was that I think it is requesting it to be to rich even before it starts boosting. I have adjusted power enrichment for this but I will also make some minor adjustments on full load Lamda. Thank you. 
I am happy with the results of the alpha n for low load, Any feedback on which map should be adjusted first for the higher rpm and higher load. I and thinking main fuel as it is based on load. Or should injection correction be traced First? 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

I have a quick question, why would I not be getting any values on block 32? I have put about 100 kms on the tune and still nothing in these two blocks and I know things are out. What would you suggest to be the first thing I check?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

SpacedOutStar said:


> I have a quick question, why would I not be getting any values on block 32? I have put about 100 kms on the tune and still nothing in these two blocks and I know things are out. What would you suggest to be the first thing I check?


Resistor anything you have deleted. Evap, SAI .... Those are needed for LTFT's.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

96vrt said:


> Thanks Dave. I should have remembered that difference. That is why it isn't grouped the other fuel maps.
> One of the reasons I questioned it was that I think it is requesting it to be to rich even before it starts boosting. I have adjusted power enrichment for this but I will also make some minor adjustments on full load Lamda. Thank you.
> I am happy with the results of the alpha n for low load, Any feedback on which map should be adjusted first for the higher rpm and higher load. I and thinking main fuel as it is based on load. Or should injection correction be traced First?
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2



Post a log w/file

What I suggest is make sure your Injection Correction Map and Main Load Map are both 1.0001, then adjust Alpha N.

Your car will request lambda based on the Power Enrichment Map and then Full load Lambda once your EGT gets hot enough. Fuel curve is established by requested torque and rpm.



Injection correction and Main Load correction are used to make adjustments to ensure requested lambda and actual meet, and used on the entire map, from low load/injector ms all the way to redline


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

On a side note, anyone interested in a DIY for making graphs using google drive? 

Might help some users learn how to understand the data better instead of the usual 'rinse and repeat' type of tuning that is yielded by using nothing but histograms.


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

spartiati said:


> Resistor anything you have deleted. Evap, SAI .... Those are needed for LTFT's.


The SAI solenoid is still there and plugged in but the pump and everything associated with it is gone and the evap system is still there and functional. Thanks for the reply.


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> On a side note, anyone interested in a DIY for making graphs using google drive?
> 
> Might help some users learn how to understand the data better instead of the usual 'rinse and repeat' type of tuning that is yielded by using nothing but histograms.


Yes.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I'm interested!



Dave926 said:


> On a side note, anyone interested in a DIY for making graphs using google drive?
> 
> Might help some users learn how to understand the data better instead of the usual 'rinse and repeat' type of tuning that is yielded by using nothing but histograms.


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## 96vrt (Sep 27, 2011)

.


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## 96vrt (Sep 27, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> On a side note, anyone interested in a DIY for making graphs using google drive?
> 
> Might help some users learn how to understand the data better instead of the usual 'rinse and repeat' type of tuning that is yielded by using nothing but histograms.


Yes 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

So on rac337's thread about tuning a mafless file he says that if your car is hunting for an afr at idle to lower you minimum injector pulsewidth before adjusting the alpha n and tb vs airflow maps. How much should I lower the pulsewidth? It's a pretty crazy decimal number so I'm not sure if I should lower it from, for example, .34176 to .24176 or something like .34176 to .34000. Those are just made up numbers since I don't have my laptop handy ATM but you guys should get the idea.

Thanks


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

burkechrs1 said:


> Yes.





NJ1.8T said:


> I'm interested!





96vrt said:


> Yes
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


Posted up HERE


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> To cross check this to ensure its working, I run the data log though the main load correction map to see if the adjustments are working, but I dont apply them to the map. Just do it for a look-see. Eventually you will see the corrections on this map become better and better


when you say the main load correction map which one are you talking about? its not showing up on mine for whatever reason.


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

I believe he is referring to the main fuel corrections map.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

polska_ts said:


> when you say the main load correction map which one are you talking about? its not showing up on mine for whatever reason.





burkechrs1 said:


> I believe he is referring to the main fuel corrections map.


Yes. Not the first time I have made an unclear statement


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

just wondering if anyone is running bosch white giant injectors on their set ups. i know there small and theres probably very few that run them but just wondering what your using for an injector constant. just want to know if im in the right ball park or if im way off. they are 36 lbs/hr im thinking since they are so small the injector wizzard should put the theoretical value pretty darn close to the actual but just wanted cross reference with someone.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

The injector wizard should spit out a pretty accurate number 

BVC value are what count


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

*Fuel trims won't fully adapt anymore?*

So I've been tweaking my injector constant and BVC values. I finally got my idle to stay within +- 20 of my target of 900rpm. When I finally figured out I was making progress I was stoked and couldn't wit to get home from work to check my block 032 trims and make the, hopefully, final adjustment so my idle stay perfect at 14.7 a/f. Right now it hang around 14-16 a/f at idle. 

Usually when I load a tune I load it in the morning before work, drive to work, then drive home and check block 032 in the garage. It has been 3 days of this now, and my block 032 is reading 0.0 and -0.8 with some funky hexadecimal code in the 3rd and 4th spots.

Is it possible for the first value in block 032 to be a perfect 0.0%? This hasn't happened before with any of my other revisions. I didn't touch any hardware either, strictly loaded the new tune and went to work. All the emissions stuff has been resistored with the IE resistors, I even double checked to make sure they were good before writing this.

Should I just reload the tune? Any ideas why my fuel trims randomly decided not to adapt anymore?

I figure the first block shouldn't be 0.0 cause I can read my o2 corrections at idle constantly subtracting 5% - 15% fuel.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Drive a little more. I have had 0.0% in the first before in my file, but my hardware is pretty mild compared to most.

I would like to think if you didnt have adaptions in the first block you wouldnt have them in the second either.


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> Drive a little more. I have had 0.0% in the first before in my file, but my hardware is pretty mild compared to most.
> 
> I would like to think if you didnt have adaptions in the first block you wouldnt have them in the second either.


Will do. I agree, it seemed a little odd the LTFT would adapt but not the STFT. I'll keep driving it. So glad I'm finally starting to understand this software.

On another note, whenever I hit the gas, whether it be shifting, beginning to accelerate or whatever, it always dips rich (11-12a/f) then jumps lean (16+ a/f) then settles at 14.7 a/f. I can feel this quick surge even though it corrects to 14.7 in about a second. Any idea what map I could adjust so this doesnt happen?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Acceleration fuel I think?

I just got done doing a few revisions.


My block 32 values are 0.0/0.0 after a 15 mile drive:laugh:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Acceleration fuel I think?
> 
> I just got done doing a few revisions.
> 
> ...


That's cool, but I've always gone by the school of thought that 0/0 LTFT means it's not reading at all. 

My LTFT changes from driving to the mountains or driving in the city. I'll get a higher LTFT in the mountains and a lower in the city. Never higher than +/- 2-3


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> That's cool, but I've always gone by the school of thought that 0/0 LTFT means it's not reading at all.
> 
> My LTFT changes from driving to the mountains or driving in the city. I'll get a higher LTFT in the mountains and a lower in the city. Never higher than +/- 2-3



I ended up clearing a code and driving home (~30miles) from work. Now my STFT are -0.8% and my LTFT are 0.0%. They flip flopped lol. Gonna be driving a little more tonight, I'm sure something will change. At least my STFT are popping up this time I guess.


I'll look in to acceleration fuel after I get this finished. I think I'll start by lowering the entire map by 2% and see if I notice any changes.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> That's cool, but I've always gone by the school of thought that 0/0 LTFT means it's not reading at all.
> 
> My LTFT changes from driving to the mountains or driving in the city. I'll get a higher LTFT in the mountains and a lower in the city. Never higher than +/- 2-3


My theory is that the longer they take to settle in, the closer the fueling is to what it actually needs to be.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Thats awesome, I got my first block to 0.0 and my second kinda flucuates a bit. From 1.6 up to 4.7 and then down to 2.3 
I wish I could get them to both be 0.0



Dave926 said:


> Acceleration fuel I think?
> 
> I just got done doing a few revisions.
> 
> ...


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

NJ1.8T said:


> Thats awesome, I got my first block to 0.0 and my second kinda flucuates a bit. From 1.6 up to 4.7 and then down to 2.3
> I wish I could get them to both be 0.0


No really you don't. If you don't see any corrections at all you'd have to start wondering if you O2 sensor is dead.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> No really you don't. If you don't see any corrections at all you'd have to start wondering if you O2 sensor is dead.


If those numbers are above zero, and not below at all, I would add a little to the injector constant.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> If those numbers are above zero, and not below at all, I would add a little to the injector constant.


:thumbup:


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## jonpwn (Aug 13, 2010)

sorry this is a little off topic. I was told there was a voting process currently happening for a Maestro tuning forum? where do i vote for this?

Thank you


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Ok so this has me stumped.

My STFT is 0.4 my LTFT is -0.8. I was driving today taking some logs and decided to see how everything was with AC on. This is what stumped me, when I turn my AC on, my idle is PERFECT.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4K4a6d_RyXjYU1ITzF1Uk54Tms/edit?usp=sharing

Here is a 1 minute log with ac on. Fuel corrections and lambda are outstanding and everything is perfect.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4K4a6d_RyXjSy1FM3UxaEpMNEU/edit?usp=sharing

Here is a 1 minute log with ac off. These were back to back logs. Only thing I did was turn the ac off. Notice the o2 corrections and the rpm speed and afr. 

Can anyone give me some insight here? I want my idle without ac on to be as perfect as my idle with ac on.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

burkechrs1 said:


> Ok so this has me stumped.
> 
> My STFT is 0.4 my LTFT is -0.8. I was driving today taking some logs and decided to see how everything was with AC on. This is what stumped me, when I turn my AC on, my idle is PERFECT.
> 
> ...


Most likely your BVC curve is off, so when your AC is on that voltage is correct as far as BVC values, but with ac off your BVC numbers are off for that given voltage

I didn't look at your logs as my computer is being a pain, but it sounds like the curve to me


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

One-Eight GTI said:


> Most likely your BVC curve is off, so when your AC is on that voltage is correct as far as BVC values, but with ac off your BVC numbers are off for that given voltage
> 
> I didn't look at your logs as my computer is being a pain, but it sounds like the curve to me


I wouldn't know which way or how much to adjust my BVC curve since my STFT and LTFT values are so close to 0. Right now both values are +-1% throughout the day.

I did review my logs and with ac on my voltage is ~13.3V and without ac its ~13.6V. Would you recommend increasing or decreasing my BVC curve by 1 or 2 percent? If so which way, up or down?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Make sure you have the correct injector data before anything.

When you dial in the entire 'curve', make sure nijection correction and main fuel correction are all 1.0001


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> Make sure you have the correct injector data before anything.
> 
> When you dial in the entire 'curve', make sure nijection correction and main fuel correction are all 1.0001


They are both set to 1.0001. My injector data is correct as far as I know. Fuel trims are +-1% in block 032 and I got the BVC values from the manufacturer. This is why I'm stumped. Once my block 032 values are that close I shouldn't have to touch my BVC and injector constant.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4K4a6d_RyXjRHlWUmVwbXh0bms/edit?usp=sharing

Here's the link to the tune I am running atm.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

burkechrs1 said:


> Ok so this has me stumped.
> 
> My STFT is 0.4 my LTFT is -0.8. I was driving today taking some logs and decided to see how everything was with AC on. This is what stumped me, when I turn my AC on, my idle is PERFECT.
> 
> ...


are you using the bvc values (curve) that the injector manufacture recommends? This is key.


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

I have questions about timing pull on the base AWP/630cc/TT225/No-VVT tune I was hoping someone could help with. I take this tune and run the Injector Wizard for the Siemens 630cc injectors to get the BVC and IC and then flash it to my car and I get this...










The timing pull causes the car to stumble and pop and you have to continually increase the load until it clears out which is just a little higher than the graph when it rips. I tried removing 7* on the regular timing map from this area as a test and it made no difference, I still get continual timing pulls under load. If I use the tune that NJ1.8T uploaded to the Panda Project on Sept 22nd I don't have this issue but I have other issues. His tune is also a VVT tune while my car is a swap car without VVT so I thought I would start fresh with the Maestro base tune but I get way too much timing pull. I have almost new BKR7E plugs gapped to 0.025" and have gone over my intake and exhaust and can find no leaks. 

I haven't been able to drive it long enough to get the second value from block 32 but the first is only -1.7 at the moment. The idle is good and full out seems okay but light load and acceleration causes lots of timing pull. The ECM is from a 2001 AWM with a new O2 sensor, Deka 630cc injectors, mafless, GT28RS, running at 43.5 psi fuel pressure.

What should I be looking at to correct this? The base tune does this but the tune from NJ1.8T does not so I don't think it is the car, I would use his tune but it is for a VVT and I can't get any fuel trim corrections out of it. I have gone over his tune and compared it to the base tune but his has so many changes that I am not sure where the difference is.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> If those numbers are above zero, and not below at all, I would add a little to the injector constant.


You're not talking about the map but the numerical setting, correct? 

If so how do I adjust it accordingly?

my numbers are always below now. 

Let's just say for everyone's benefit,

How would I adjust the IC for +10% LTFT (number for learning purposes only, it's a nice round number)

(IC # for instructional purposes only)

If my IC is:
0.05000

and my LTFT is:

+10%

What is the proper setting for the new IC?

IC + LTFT = LTFT (fixed) or 0.05000 + (+10%) = IC


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Rac_337 said:


> are you using the bvc values (curve) that the injector manufacture recommends? This is key.


Yes I am.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

DMVDUB said:


> You're not talking about the map but the numerical setting, correct?
> 
> If so how do I adjust it accordingly?
> 
> ...


If trims are 10% out after setting bvc and ic correctly something else is going on  (alpha n, maf etc)

but to answer your question yes you have it right. just add the percent value to the ic. :beer:


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

burkechrs1 said:


> Yes I am.


weird.

maybe try to play with your idle torque maps. sometimes bumping them up 5% or more helps.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Rac_337 said:


> If trims are 10% out after setting bvc and ic correctly something else is going on  (alpha n, maf etc)
> 
> but to answer your question yes you have it right. just add the percent value to the ic. :beer:


my trims are within -3% 

I just gave rounded numbers because they are easier to discern


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

SpacedOutStar said:


> I have questions about timing pull on the base AWP/630cc/TT225/No-VVT tune I was hoping someone could help with. I take this tune and run the Injector Wizard for the Siemens 630cc injectors to get the BVC and IC and then flash it to my car and I get this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Post the actual log, and file. Make sure there isnt cat piss in the gas tank



DMVDUB said:


> You're not talking about the map but the numerical setting, correct?
> 
> If so how do I adjust it accordingly?
> 
> ...


I always think of this, because I quite often confuse myself when it comes to this, and when I was fueling for corn......lol

Anyways the stock injector constant is ~0.10xxx.

If your current injector constant is 0.500, adjusting the number higher will richen the mix, lowering the number will lean it out.

Therefore your injector constant in this case with a +10% LTFT would 0.55


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Post the actual log, and file. Make sure there isnt cat piss in the gas tank
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think this is valuable knowledge right here!


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Rac_337 said:


> weird.
> 
> maybe try to play with your idle torque maps. sometimes bumping them up 5% or more helps.


I just made 4 tunes. I added 2% to all BVC values and it got worse. So I made a tune subtracting 2,4,6% from all values that I will try. If those don't work I also made a file increasing the idle torque values. Something I noticed while doing that; you can't use the 'Math Function' with idle torque. Trying to add 5% didn't change anything. You can only increase or decrease the values in .1 increments.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Idle torque only affects timing if I am not mistaken. Unless your running cams etc, this should most likely remain untouched.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

DMVDUB said:


> my trims are within -3%
> 
> I just gave rounded numbers because they are easier to discern


:laugh::beer:


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Idle torque only affects timing if I am not mistaken. Unless your running cams etc, this should most likely remain untouched.


good to know! didnt know that. I thought it was a additive to actual load in %.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Rac_337 said:


> good to know! didnt know that. I thought it was a additive to actual load in %.


I very well could be misinterpreting it as well, but I understand it as a timing thing at idle.
http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Idle_torque_reserve


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Just an off the wall question that I know a few people can answer, 

I've played with WinOls and .BIN files before with the appropriate Maps and there's a bit more than Maestro shows.

How many maps (estimate is ok) is Maestro leaving out? 

There's so much more that could be done with these ECU's it's mind boggling. I know people will say, well Maestro is good enough, etc. etc. 

Is it really though? What if someone actually made ALL of the possible maps available? 

I could be wrong about this, but it also seems (if you've ever looked at a .bin) that there's a ton of the memory that's not used. I'm guessing this is where tuners put selectable files, but that's just guessing. 

Will there ever be a "big boy" upgrade for Maestro? (I know.. rhetorical) 

With all of the updates we get a little option here and there, but it seems to me once you learn Maestro many people will start looking for more. Looking towards WinOls, or Standalone. 

Personally I'm drooling over the VIPEC unit. If I had a BT project I know I'd spend the extra money for VIPEC or Lugtronic. I'm still learning things in Maestro, but I've already got the, "that's it??" feeling...

It would continue to hold my interest if there were some more options added... I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way. 

$800 does get you a decent platform. 
Is it more than just decent though? No.

I would even pay an additional fee now for more control, not another $800... Something though. 

Thoughts? Opinions? 

If you've never looked at a file in OLS or similar you may have no idea what I'm talking about.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Ive heard around 300 maps.

Question is, do you really need to have that many? I think Maestro has enough to get the 'meat and potatoes' part of tuning done.

In the instance of ecu's that are not commonly hacked (regardless of vehicle brand) and canned tunes are the only resource for a performance upgrade, standalone ECU's are the best option. 

I really think that Vipec is an overpriced ecu. 

MS3 Pro will do everything it does minus DBW, and since most users here bitch about it then its a mute point. Set target A/F with tunerstudio and analyze live the car will tune itself.

PRO-EFI is supposed to be really good. Local shop has plans to run one with their drag car. Its not cheap, and starts at $2500. Ability to set a hysterisis on many different sensors that will shut an engine down in the event of a failure. Also has a very good integrated traction control with wheel speed sensors.

If money is no object, Pectel? 

What it really comes down to, and I will argue this till no end, is you cannot beat factory engineering.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Ive heard around 300 maps.
> 
> Question is, do you really need to have that many? I think Maestro has enough to get the 'meat and potatoes' part of tuning done.
> 
> ...


VIPEC is sooo expensive compared to other options. It's also nice having the OEM ECU with the maps it's supposed to have. I just think out of 300 something, there's a few more that would be nice to have. I won't get into it, but there's a lot of things that you "could" do if you had certain maps and enough creativity.


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Ok so I've tried multiple BVC values and they all make it worse. My best setup is how I had it before using the values the manufacture gave me. I have tried changing my alpha n values on the 1.5% TPS line with no luck either. This is really got me stumped and I'm starting to get irritated. I've been trying to get this idle smooth for a couple weeks now. I don't see any reason why it would be flawless with ac on but complete crap when it's off. What other maps could I change?

My friend seems to think it has something to do with my load at idle but I don't know what to change to test that theory. I haven't even began to learn about engine torque and load yet..

Anyone review my logs from above and have any other ideas. Would love to get past this for good.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

What injectors are you actually using? I know you have mentioned 725's, but not who makes them.


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Got some ID725cc in there right now.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Your BVC might require a little tweaking then.

14.995v is 0.669, should be 0.627
13.939 is 0.795, bring it to 0.789


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> Your BVC might require a little tweaking then.
> 
> 14.995v is 0.669, should be 0.627
> 13.939 is 0.795, bring it to 0.789


I'll give them a shot. Do the lower voltage numbers look right? I got the value from ID so they should be close.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

They looked spot on, but the last two were a smidge off. Given how close your car is, it just might make a difference.

Also here is a Power Enrichment map. The one in your file looks like a typical Maestro blunder, 11.8AFR at 2000 rpm.:facepalm:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwMf58LTPUUoY2FJYTdTSmtSZms/edit?usp=sharing

Im not sure when your boost will hit, but Ill take a wild guess and say between 3500 and 4000 its get a little fun.

Its just a target lambda map, fyi, and its not going to affect your block 32 values


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> They looked spot on, but the last two were a smidge off. Given how close your car is, it just might make a difference.
> 
> Also here is a Power Enrichment map. The one in your file looks like a typical Maestro blunder, 11.8AFR at 2000 rpm.:facepalm:
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for your help. I'l load this tune in the morning and give it a shot.

Does my minimum injector pulsewidth look fine? I've read some people lower it a substantial amount.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I did, but not sure what the minimum value should be for them. Yours is pretty low, and its possible the injectors at idle with the a/c off are at such a low pulsewidth its not liking it.

I would find out with the minimum pw is for them, and compare it to what your car is idling at


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> I did, but not sure what the minimum value should be for them. Yours is pretty low, and its possible the injectors at idle with the a/c off are at such a low pulsewidth its not liking it.
> 
> I would find out with the minimum pw is for them, and compare it to what your car is idling at


What makes no sense to me about min pw is all the searching I've found says the ID725 min pw is around 1.8ms. That seems ridiculously high and I'm not sure if I should try that value lol.

I did compare the ac/noac log again. The log with the ac shows a very consistent injection time right at ~2ms, the no-ac log shows a really sporatic injection time below 1.8ms.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> If money is no object


Bosch Motorsports ECU


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Then set it to 1.8ms and see what happens.

My minimum pulsewidth is set a smidge high, but the car idles butter smooth at 0.97 with 850cc injectors.


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks again for all of the help you guys have been giving to Maestro users, there is a lot more here than anywhere else. 

I have spent days comparing Harvey's tune that works for me to the 630 tune and exporting/importing maps and I can't find where the issue is. Harvey's tune runs fairly well on my car and it is drivable but needs a lot of tweaking and because of the changes he has made it is hard to say where to start to make it work on my car which is why I wanted to start from fresh and I don't have VVT. 

Yesterday I started with a clean AWP 630cc TT225 tune and ran it without the MAF. From reading this thread (I am about 1/2 through my second read) it was suggested that you clear out all corrections in the Injector Correction map so this is where I started. Here are the changes I have made to this tune while testing yesterday...

0001: Change Accelerator Pedal map to less aggressive one
0 out injection Correction map with 1.0001

0002: Used Injector Wizard settings from Maestro for BVC and IC for Siemens 630cc

0004: Change Minimum Injector Pulsewidth to 0.349377

0005: Raise idle 40 rpm on all blocks
Change Acceleration Fuel Map to Harvey's

0006: Change Pump Timing Map to decrease 7 degrees on all loads under 60%

This is the log from change 0001, it has a lot of idle time letting the car warm up and then a rip around the block.... https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B29DP_cUk6zTQmVDTUx6djd6aFU/edit?usp=sharing By the time i made it to my 6th change (change 3 was importing Harvey's entire pump gas map but it made no difference so I went back to change 0002 and then made further modifications) I was getting a lot of heat soak from the timing pulls and the car sitting. This is the full log from change 0006 https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B29DP_cUk6zTLVVuQndRQUhhU1U/edit?usp=sharing and this is the one i made the graph from https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B29DP_cUk6zTM0NWeFlONHQ4Y3c/edit?usp=sharing This is the current tune with all modifications listed above... https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B29DP_cUk6zTdUZ0M09EMWJtQWs/edit?usp=sharing

I have gone over the motor and I can't find any intake leaks or leaks in the vacume/PCV system. I don't have much between the O2 sensor and the turbo to leak although my O2 sensor may be a bit close. My turbo exhaust flange goes to a 3" v-band and I put a gasket on either side of this so I don't think I have leaks there...










It seems like it is something in the tune but it is beyond me what it might be.


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

I have a question about MAFs that I was hopeful someone may be able to answer. I used to have a Uni narrowband tune on this motor and it was using the narrowband TT225 MAF and housing. At some point my MAF went so I replaced it with another narrowband TT225 MAF and all went well after this. When I went to wideband I researched and found all wideband cars used the same physical MAF sensor in their respective housings so I bought the AWM sensor/housing and was going to swap this out into my TT225 housing. 

I have read that there is no swapping off sensors and housings so the question is, even though the part number of the actual sensor is the same on the wideband cars does this mean VW/Audi actually made changes to the sensors coding so they would need to be scaled differently? Usually there is a part number change when things are changed yet the Bosch numbers are the same for all wideband sensors from what I have found. This is the part number on the actual sensor and the MAF housing so it makes me wonder.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Im not entirely convinced that your not having any hardware issues. Use seafoam and a rag in the exhaust to verify there are no leaks.

Get in contact with Eurodyne if switching active is not turned on, your car is running with 0* of timing more often than not. I can remember other users in the past having issues with this.

If your having mild timing pull, -3 or less then it is nothing to worry about. If your having timing pull with excessively high IAT's at low loads, consider adjusting *Timing Correction for Air Temp.*

I believe someone verified there was a difference in the MAF sensors between the narrowband and the wideband cars.

Also, look at the cliff notes posted in Maestro. Sensor and housing need to match. Assuming you have no leaks, in this case unplug the MAF until you can get the proper hardware.

*Power Enrichment* is also not correct. The one on your file is not the one from Harvey's car, I know because I am the one that made it:laugh:. 

His turbo is a bit bigger than yours, so his fuel curve comes in a bit later but its a good starting point for you.

Minus some funny adjustments he did to the pump gas timing map, that base file he posted is pretty solid. I would say import/export the pump gas timing map from your current file to the one on panda project and go from there. The fueling maps are all 1.0001 too.


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

So I got the min pw value direct from ID. For ID725cc it is: 0.125ms. The rep I spoke to also said it shouldnt have any effect on my idle at all, it only effects my air/fuel mixture if it's idling that low which it shouldn't be. Basically he told me min pw isn't going to effect anything on my car as far as what my issues are.

Still waiting on my trims to correct to see if my BVC values helped. If not, I think I'm just going to call it good, unplug my N80 resistor and start tracing my alpha-n and start the fun stuff. As much as I'd love an idle smooth as butter, I can't waste a third week getting nowhere.



BTW, that power enrichment map you gave me dave, made a HUUUGE difference with the way the car feels when I'm on it. It was definitely running too rich with the old PE map. I'll have to make some mild changes to it but it is a huge improvement already. Thanks!


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

If you send me a WOT log Ill resend you another one. I just figured it would be better than what you had 

Also set the Time Delay for Power Enrichment to 0.5000


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> If you send me a WOT log Ill resend you another one. I just figured it would be better than what you had
> 
> Also set the Time Delay for Power Enrichment to 0.5000


Will do! It definitely made a huge improvement already.


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## jetta021.8t (Feb 13, 2009)

Having a little trouble dyno tuning my car last night one of the issue is I could not get my rev limit pass 6.8k-6.9k . Tried to change it a couple times use both rev limiter settings with no lucky. Thanks for any help u can give me


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Logs, file etc.

Can you get past that on the street? Misfires enabled?


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> If you send me a WOT log Ill resend you another one. I just figured it would be better than what you had
> 
> Also set the Time Delay for Power Enrichment to 0.5000


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoK4a6d_RyXjdGdNSURETmF0MnkwVU5oOHZfc3B4dFE&usp=sharing

Here ya go. Timing is looking a little crazy, and my fuel corrections definitely need work lol. But this should be enough to get my PE map rolling.


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

Im not entirely convinced that your not having any hardware issues. Use seafoam and a rag in the exhaust to verify there are no leaks.

- I can't argue there, I can't check between the exhaust manifold and the head but everywhere else is good so I will do this just to be sure. No matter how much you look it is easy to miss something so i will take care of this.

Get in contact with Eurodyne if switching active is not turned on, your car is running with 0* of timing more often than not. I can remember other users in the past having issues with this.

- What's interesting is that in the Read Me that pops up when you download base files it does state that all Stage 3 tunes need Switching Active enabled. When I tried to enable this when I first installed my base tune it asked for a code. I followed the link to the Eurodyne forum where it stated that this is only used on the request of Eurodyne tech support. I did e-mail Chris and he said this should be enabled without a code on all new versions of the Eurodyne Flash utility but mine is up to date and it asked for a code now and it did back then as well. He is wondering if my ECM is properly registered and I haven't heard a rely back because of the time difference so it should be sorted out tomorrow.

If your having mild timing pull, -3 or less then it is nothing to worry about. If your having timing pull with excessively high IAT's at low loads, consider adjusting *Timing Correction for Air Temp.*

- My intake temps are typically pretty low but I was getting heat soak from the crappy tune because I was not letting the car cool down enough between runs. Once it is up and running somewhat properly I will check into this and adjust if needed.

I believe someone verified there was a difference in the MAF sensors between the narrowband and the wideband cars.

Also, look at the cliff notes posted in Maestro. Sensor and housing need to match. Assuming you have no leaks, in this case unplug the MAF until you can get the proper hardware.

- There are two TT225 MAFs, one for the narrowband AMU engine which went up to 2002 and the wideband BEA MAF used in 2003 and newer TT225 engines. The actual sensor part number on the narrowband sensor is 'F 00C 2G2 040' and the part number on the wideband sensor is 'F 00C 2G2 049'. My car originally used the AMU TT225 sensor with my ATW ME7.1 and the stage 3 - 440cc Unitronics tune and its part number is 'F 00C 2G2 049' so it is narrowband. I bought a MAF for a AWM 2001 A4 and the sensor part number is 'F 002 2G2 049' just like the BEA MAF sensor. That being said I do not think I need to scale the MAF if I use the AMU MAF housing and the AWM/BEA sensor because they both use the same part number. I think this warning is for the narrowband guys trying to use the OE sensor on the wideband tune and not the way I want to use it. Again, I do not think Bosch would code the actual sensors differently and use the same body on each. Each ECM is expecting a certain sized sensor housing with the appropriate sensor so they would not individually code each sensor. Currently I am running maf-less so this is not a concern at this point. 

*Power Enrichment* is also not correct. The one on your file is not the one from Harvey's car, I know because I am the one that made it:laugh:. 

His turbo is a bit bigger than yours, so his fuel curve comes in a bit later but its a good starting point for you.

- I haven't tried this one yet, I only copied over the acceleration fuel map and was not sure about the power enrichment map so I was going to try his later. 

Minus some funny adjustments he did to the pump gas timing map, that base file he posted is pretty solid. I would say import/export the pump gas timing map from your current file to the one on panda project and go from there. The fueling maps are all 1.0001 too.

- I have a few concerns about his tune and the first being that it is for a VVT car and I have read way back in this thread that people had issues with the resister burning out when not equipped with VVT. Also, I can't get any short/long term fuel numbers on this tune and when I am off & on the throttle it is not smooth so I thought I would start from fresh. I was looking for ways to disable the VVT part of the tune but other than setting all of the cam timing map values to .0012 which i have not confirmed if it works or not from reading this thread. I am only on page 76 of my second read and my notes are already at 26 pages worth.

I do thank you all for taking the time to help people out though, this makes a huge difference to those of us that are struggling to get up to pace. Thanks again for the tips Dave926, this really helps and hopefully one day I will be able to actually drive the car with a base tune in it because it has been parked for a month or two with me screwing with this tune.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

AWP Stage 3 TT225MAF 08262013----This file posted on pandit is non vvt. Just unplug the MAF and it will run fine.

Power Enrichment is just a target lambda map.

Just from the few logs you posted, your car stay stoich until full load lambda kicks in, which is determined by *EGT Threshold for Full Load Lambda*. On your file it was set low (~472*c), and thats fine.

Harvey's car kicks in fuel right away using power enrichment, and his temp threshold is a lot higher (~800*c). His Full Load lambda still kicks in, but not until he is really getting into it for a little while and things start to get hot.

I think even after Tapp fixes whatever issue you car has with the ecu, its still wise to use Power Enrichment to turn up the fuel instead of waiting for a temperature set point.


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

Dave926 said:


> AWP Stage 3 TT225MAF 08262013----This file posted on pandit is non vvt. Just unplug the MAF and it will run fine.
> 
> Power Enrichment is just a target lambda map.
> 
> ...


Thanks again for the support and helping others out, it is really appreciated. I have not been using the MAF on any of these runs so I don't think this is a factor. I tried the 08262013 file after I tried his first one and the car idle like crap and was pulling timing and crapping out just like the base file so I went back to his previous file and it ran okay again. I think this relates to your point about needing Switching Active enabled, once this is corrected his file will probably work fine. Once I get a base file going that allows me to actually drive the car and start pulling down trims I will try my MAF because the way I have it set it should work as long as the AMU and BEA MAF housings are the same size. I will copy of the power enrichment map though and see what it does.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

:thumbup:


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

im probably over thinking this but i found the injector calibration sheet for my injectors:

http://www.boschdealer.com/specsheets/0280155868cs.jpg

now i have a question. for the voltage offset i can just apply the multiplier FNPW_OFFCOMP to the voltage offset and get close but what do i do for the minimum injector pulse width they have .703 at 39.15psi so im wondering what it would be for 3 bar? im just running around in circles right now with my injectors and my alpha n and tb vs airflow so im thinking if i just take values off a calibration sheet it will take alot of the guess work out and i can actually start fixing my issues.


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

polska_ts said:


> im probably over thinking this but i found the injector calibration sheet for my injectors:
> 
> http://www.boschdealer.com/specsheets/0280155868cs.jpg
> 
> now i have a question. for the voltage offset i can just apply the multiplier FNPW_OFFCOMP to the voltage offset and get close but what do i do for the minimum injector pulse width they have .703 at 39.15psi so im wondering what it would be for 3 bar? im just running around in circles right now with my injectors and my alpha n and tb vs airflow so im thinking if i just take values off a calibration sheet it will take alot of the guess work out and i can actually start fixing my issues.


That is what is said in the description of FNPW_OFFCOMP, multiply this value with your current fuel pressure with the values under FNPW_OFFSET and you will get the corrected values for the fuel pressure you are running. Many people say the values given by the Injector Wizard are close enough to start but if yours are not listed then try this value. I found they were higher than the values given by the Injector Wizard for the Siemens 630cc injectors but it is worth a try.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

SpacedOutStar said:


> That is what is said in the description of FNPW_OFFCOMP, multiply this value with your current fuel pressure with the values under FNPW_OFFSET and you will get the corrected values for the fuel pressure you are running. Many people say the values given by the Injector Wizard are close enough to start but if yours are not listed then try this value. I found they were higher than the values given by the Injector Wizard for the Siemens 630cc injectors but it is worth a try.


Thanks for the reply i got that for the battery voltage compensation (FNPW_OFFSET) but im wondering what to do for the minimum injector pulse width (MINPW). the sheet says .703 and i think stock injectors is .75 so im just wondering what to use if im running a higher fuel pressure than is given on the injector sheet.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Just put the number in.

I believe the lowest pw you can achieve is BVC+minPW.

Pw at idle always fluctuates a little. If it goes static, then you know the minPW value is in effect.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

alright thanks man ill try it out tonight and see how things go thanks again :beer:


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## jetta021.8t (Feb 13, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Logs, file etc.
> 
> Can you get past that on the street? Misfires enabled?


No not able to past 6.9k on the street and misfires is enabled .. Run 70mm tb 630cc file.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Full Load Lambda Map is little rich on that file. Try setting it to 0.81

Could be a hardware issue, bad G28 sensor.


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

Setting Switching Active made a huge difference, I used the base 630 file and used the Injector Wizard to set the BVC and IC and it runs great so far. The idle is pretty stable and no hesitation on acceleration so it is a good start. I tried the MAF on one run as well and it keeps the A/F pretty close to 14.7:1 but I get more hunting at idle. I dropped my Minimum Injector Puslewidth again and this didn't change much so I have unplugged it for now and will play with it later. I will take it for a longer run tonight and see if I can't tweak the IC and BVC a little more and see how it goes.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

ok so i plugged in the bvc values from the spec sheet and went for a normal cruise for about 15-20 min and i got a .6 and a -1.6 on block 32 applied the changes and went for another one this time logging so i could adjust my alpha n map. i was pretty aggressive this time around and when i stopped at a light noticed my o2 corrections were at like -21 so i knew something was up. then I kept driving and went home and stopped the log and just for fun i checked block 32 and it was -4.2 and -12.5 and this was only after a 10 min drive. so at this point im not sure what to do are these massive corrections due to the alpha n map not being right or do my bvc and ic still need massive tweaking? i took the values right off the calibration sheet so i thought they would be close but i may be wrong. any input?

edit: also does anyone know what oxygen sensor diagnostics 1,2, and 3 and also lambda config 1,2 actually do? right now only ones i have on are oxygen sensor diagnostics 2 and 3 because thats what was on with the base file. any ideas?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

SpacedOutStar said:


> Setting Switching Active made a huge difference, I used the base 630 file and used the Injector Wizard to set the BVC and IC and it runs great so far. The idle is pretty stable and no hesitation on acceleration so it is a good start. I tried the MAF on one run as well and it keeps the A/F pretty close to 14.7:1 but I get more hunting at idle. I dropped my Minimum Injector Puslewidth again and this didn't change much so I have unplugged it for now and will play with it later. I will take it for a longer run tonight and see if I can't tweak the IC and BVC a little more and see how it goes.


Thats awesome. I had a funny feeling that was the case with your car having no advance under load.



polska_ts said:


> ok so i plugged in the bvc values from the spec sheet and went for a normal cruise for about 15-20 min and i got a .6 and a -1.6 on block 32 applied the changes and went for another one this time logging so i could adjust my alpha n map. i was pretty aggressive this time around and when i stopped at a light noticed my o2 corrections were at like -21 so i knew something was up. then I kept driving and went home and stopped the log and just for fun i checked block 32 and it was -4.2 and -12.5 and this was only after a 10 min drive. so at this point im not sure what to do are these massive corrections due to the alpha n map not being right or do my bvc and ic still need massive tweaking? i took the values right off the calibration sheet so i thought they would be close but i may be wrong. any input?
> 
> edit: also does anyone know what oxygen sensor diagnostics 1,2, and 3 and also lambda config 1,2 actually do? right now only ones i have on are oxygen sensor diagnostics 2 and 3 because thats what was on with the base file. any ideas?


No idea on the diagnostics, i usually leave them all on.

Whats your setup? Alpha n should only have to get changed if you dont have a stock tb or intake manifold.


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

I've gotten a good starting point, the car has a really good idle and I have only had to adjust the BVC & IC once. They are now within 0.8 and 3.1 so this is a good starting point. I am getting a lot of knock on hard acceleration and it is almost pulling 10* in third up around 6,000 rpm. It doesn't react well to light load modulation but when driven in anger it pulls harder using the butt dyno compared to the Uni 440cc tune that was in there before. I am going to put the Stage 3 accelerator pedal map back in there because this is tied to other maps so it is worth testing. I am also going to import the Power Enrichment map from Harvey's tune my base tune and see how that helps things. This my first hard run, it is all over the place but a good starting point. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B29DP_cUk6zTdV9QT0VwMFFnaHc/edit?usp=sharing


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Whats your setup? Alpha n should only have to get changed if you dont have a stock tb or intake manifold.


Intergrated engineering intake manifold with 80mm throttle body.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

SpacedOutStar said:


> I've gotten a good starting point, the car has a really good idle and I have only had to adjust the BVC & IC once. They are now within 0.8 and 3.1 so this is a good starting point. I am getting a lot of knock on hard acceleration and it is almost pulling 10* in third up around 6,000 rpm. It doesn't react well to light load modulation but when driven in anger it pulls harder using the butt dyno compared to the Uni 440cc tune that was in there before. I am going to put the Stage 3 accelerator pedal map back in there because this is tied to other maps so it is worth testing. I am also going to import the Power Enrichment map from Harvey's tune my base tune and see how that helps things. This my first hard run, it is all over the place but a good starting point. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B29DP_cUk6zTdV9QT0VwMFFnaHc/edit?usp=sharing


Run looks a lot better. Few things:

Timing Pull is on th border line limit. Look at the graphing thread i posted so you can see where to adjust. Histogram will most likely do it for you, but it will help you as a tuner to interpret the data.

You lose corrections in a few spots due to desired lambda being richer than the ecu can control. I think the limit is 0.81. I would set pe to 0.845 or so by 10psi and set full load lambda to 0.81. Set temperature for egt protection a little high, maybe factory temp of 872. Set the tme delay for power enrichment to 0.500 so it kicks in quickly.


polska_ts said:


> Intergrated engineering intake manifold with 80mm throttle body.


You need to adjust alpha n lol. Just make sure main fuel correction is set to 1.0001 along with injection correction too.


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

Dave926 said:


> Run looks a lot better. Few things:
> 
> Timing Pull is on th border line limit. Look at the graphing thread i posted so you can see where to adjust. Histogram will most likely do it for you, but it will help you as a tuner to interpret the data.
> 
> ...


Thanks again, I put your PE table in the tune after work and took it for a good rip. I couldn't get any full out runs in any gear but I am still getting knock at high load. My trims are good after a few tweaks but I am still seeing O2 correction at idle and timing correction as well but the idle is still pretty smooth.

The real problem is I am still at the point where it is black box engineering because I understand the inputs and outputs but I don't have the understanding of how it gets manipulated inside the box. You look at those logs and see all kinds of issues and kindly give suggestions on how to improve it but I spend endless hours looking through CSV files and graphs and trying to understand what is causing what to go out of line and what can be done to fix it. This is the fundamental basis of tuning and there are people such as yourself who have obviously spent too many hours digging right into the meat and bones of ME7 and tuning. What I find is sad is the people who posted to this thread that were mad that Chris Tapp gave them an amazingly powerful tool but didn't teach them how to use it. This kind of reminds me of someone who would return a socket set to Sears because they didn't teach them how ti use it. I have a lot more reading to do, now that I have a better idea what Maestro cam do but I have to start learning more about tuning such as the stuff on the S4 Wiki.


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

I was able to get a good flat out second and third run today and no real changes from the last run. These runs were done at sea level but this was taken going onto a long bridge so it is actually an uphill run if that makes any difference. 



















Around 5,000 to 6,000 I am adding fuel and then it settles out but the timing isn't too bad. As soon as I am on it I start getting knock which persists then entire time. Green is load, red is TPS, yellow is timing, blue is O2 correction, and the other 4 are cylinder knock. 

Currently this tune is the base AWP Stage 3 - 630cc TT225 with the settings for BVC and IC were done with the Injector wizard and I have tweaked them a few times. Currently my fuel trims were +2.3 and -6.8 before i flashed the tune and the runs above had about 12 kms on a clean flash. The car is running a GT28RS turbo with a MBC set at 14PSI with the N49 connected. I have 2.0 FSI coils and NGK BKR7E plugs with the gaps set at 0.025" and they look good. 

Today was trying some changes to settle out the idle on the car. When I first flashed it I found the idle was hunting around so I lowered the Minimum Injector Pulsewidth to about 3.5-something from the original 7.5-something which really helped out. I have driven the car around for a while and have tuned the fuel trims and the numbers are pretty low. I am still getting some hunting so I was going to try a few things and see how it helped.










The purple line on the top is RPM which is currently set at its default which is 800 and it is still using the default torque. The green line is the load, yellow is timing, blue is O2 correction, and red is TPS. I was thinking the timing may be causing the issue because when you are running a log you can see the idle going between one block on the map and another. The first was increasing all blocks on the idle torque map by 5% to bump it up into the next higher block and then I increased the idle by 100 rpm across the board. I went back to the previous tune and then decreased timing by 7* in the idle/load area of the pump gas timing map and this didn't make any difference either. I went back to the base map and then upped my Minimum Injector Pulsewidth by 20% and this made it a little worse (this is the tune the idle chart above was taken from). 

The next thing I have to do is to go grab some Seafoam and check for exuast leaks because the idle issue can easily be a pre-O2 exhaust leak. There is no point spending lots of time diagnosing a problem when you haven't confirmed the basics are in working order.

These are the histograms from my drive home from work yesterday which is about 25 kms with all mixed conditions. The first is my Main Fuel Correction map histogram followed but the Pump Timing Map.



















I have only been working on the idle so I haven't set the suggestions by Dave926 but this tune is running his Power Enrichment map. Tomorrow I will throw my last set of plugs back in the car and then Seafoam and see if it has any exhaust leaks and then go from there. Once I am done checking for leaks I will implement Dave926's suggestions and then take it for a run and dial this in.

All in all it is going pretty good now so I need to address the ping and smooth things out across the board. It doesn't have that lower end bog the Unitronics tune had which makes the car much easier to drive. The car has a Stage 3 clutch which has an engagement area of around an inch and it was a bitch getting it moving on hills before but is much better now without it bogging.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

SpacedOutStar said:


>



Looks good. Just a few things to watch out for.

On the Fuel Correction map, limit any changes to no more than +/-2%. This will help in keeping the map smooooooth. Think a wrinkled carpet versus a mountain range. It might take a million more logs to get it like that, but the end result is a lot better.

Watch out for cells like 3000/9.75. Thats most likely a transient, and is a false piece of data. Huge spikes of 13% in either direction with no changes in adjacent cells initiated by the histogram are most likely false. 

Same thing with the timing map as well. Watch out for timing adjustments in cells you normally never hit. Adjust adjacent cells too, because you may not always hit the same load value that you did the last timing log.

Last thing, make sure 'Timing Mod over 100% load' is not clicked off. I would reserve that for users running big WMI setups or E85, where the engines are less prone to knock.


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## crazyass713 (Dec 28, 2006)

jetta021.8t said:


> No not able to past 6.9k on the street and misfires is enabled .. Run 70mm tb 630cc file.


Having the same issue... And it's not the crank sensor as someone suggested. On the Uni file that was in it, it would happily spin to 8500rpm. Both limiters are changed, but to no avail  Running the largest injector AMB base file (think it's 910cc or 1000cc) with lots of tweaking. Tuned lots of other Maestro cars and never had this issue, but none were AMB's


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I would give Tapp a call.

Can anyone with this issue post some logs?


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## crazyass713 (Dec 28, 2006)

Dave926 said:


> I would give Tapp a call.
> 
> Can anyone with this issue post some logs?


I've given up calling him, a longgg time ago. I'll have to get a log, I'm so pissed with tuning this AMB on Maestro that I just might pay a tuner or swap to the AWM ecu so I can run AWP base files that I've had great success tuning with


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

I have noticed that the car got lazy and not as an aggressive as before (maybe I got used to it? I don't know). I pulled some log last night on my way home. I noticed how my fuel is out of place and how big is the compensation from my ecu to get it on the spot. I had felt the car bog when coming to an stop and then take off. Also, I wonder how normal is that once I get the car out of gear to bring it on neutral my wideband goes full rich then full lean then back to idle (14.7 +-) ?:sly:

Here is a long log I took and a quick pull in third gear from 2800 rpms up to 6k.
pull start on cell A3533 and some of normal driving around city and freeway.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdG84bldKZWhvZXBJN1BtbHBETDNCX1E#gid=0

Tune is AWP_G2VVT_Stage3_Siemens630cc.mstro with Genesis 550cc @4 bars (635cc).
Injector wizard has been corrected if that counts.

Also, after a 15-20mins drive from work to home, I logged block 032 and I see my stft @ -6.0..

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdDgxQmZ4TnQ5emdLTU1aR3dGcFV3Nmc#gid=0


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Does anyone reload there flash just to wipe things clean? Sponcar, do you think it would change anything to just reflash your car with the tune that is on it?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

sponcar said:


> I have noticed that the car got lazy and not as an aggressive as before (maybe I got used to it? I don't know). I pulled some log last night on my way home. I noticed how my fuel is out of place and how big is the compensation from my ecu to get it on the spot. I had felt the car bog when coming to an stop and then take off. Also, I wonder how normal is that once I get the car out of gear to bring it on neutral my wideband goes full rich then full lean then back to idle (14.7 +-) ?:sly:
> 
> Here is a long log I took and a quick pull in third gear from 2800 rpms up to 6k.
> pull start on cell A3533 and some of normal driving around city and freeway.
> ...


Your tune needs help. These base tunes are meant to get the car running and driving, nothing more. Ive posted up some information in the last few pages that should help you. Look at the graphing thread I posted up, and look at my responses to other user's issues.

Timing pull is absolutely maxed out at -12. Fuel corrections are in the double digits. A few degrees of timing pull is okay, but not how much you have.



derekb727 said:


> Does anyone reload there flash just to wipe things clean? Sponcar, do you think it would change anything to just reflash your car with the tune that is on it?


Should not need to. He has an issue thats in the tune, and a reflash will do nothing.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

sponcar said:


> I have noticed that the car got lazy and not as an aggressive as before (maybe I got used to it? I don't know). I pulled some log last night on my way home. I noticed how my fuel is out of place and how big is the compensation from my ecu to get it on the spot. I had felt the car bog when coming to an stop and then take off. Also, I wonder how normal is that once I get the car out of gear to bring it on neutral my wideband goes full rich then full lean then back to idle (14.7 +-) ?:sly:


mine does the same thing but just doesnt go full lean. goes full rich and then goes to 14.7~ been trying to figure it out for a while. its doing what its supposed to because the req lambda hits like .8 than back to 1.0 which i have no idea where its getting the .8 req value from


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Your tune needs help. These base tunes are meant to get the car running and driving, nothing more. Ive posted up some information in the last few pages that should help you. Look at the graphing thread I posted up, and look at my responses to other user's issues.
> 
> Timing pull is absolutely maxed out at -12. Fuel corrections are in the double digits. A few degrees of timing pull is okay, but not how much you have.




I'm planning to spend the night to catch up with this thread today and find a way to work on my tune. I have always been concerned of great amount of timing pull since day one but nothing crazy like this.

Do you think that it would be better if I start from scratch (base tune) all over again or work on the one I already have?





polska_ts said:


> mine does the same thing but just doesnt go full lean. goes full rich and then goes to 14.7~ been trying to figure it out for a while. its doing what its supposed to because the req lambda hits like .8 than back to 1.0 which i have no idea where its getting the .8 req value from


Mine doesn't go all the way lean but it sure hits 17:1s and so you feel that the car bog then get back to normal. It never really bother me but I though it would be good to mention it so I can be helped to get in the right track.




derekb727 said:


> Does anyone reload there flash just to wipe things clean? Sponcar, do you think it would change anything to just reflash your car with the tune that is on it?


I was considering that as well but I'm assuming there should be something that keeps messing all my trims and maps. I think I will go with maf again to make things easier.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Question! Should I start by histogram tracing my maps then apply changes or should I focus on getting my IC and BVC dialed first.? I understand the math applied to it but I don't know where to apply the math on the battery voltage compensation.

My IC is at 0.051504 (Genesis 550cc @bars) if that helps.

Also, after spending a long night in this thread I found out that someone in here (I think NJ1.8t) was able to get his fuel trim on point by histogram tracing his pump gas timing map. How accurate is to do it this way.

I tried it just to see how it would look then I took a screen shot of it.



Reason why I am asking is because I don't want to trash these maps with changes that will mess up everything. 

Thanks in advance.


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

sponcar said:


> Question! Should I start by histogram tracing my maps then apply changes or should I focus on getting my IC and BVC dialed first.? I understand the math applied to it but I don't know where to apply the math on the battery voltage compensation.
> 
> My IC is at 0.051504 (Genesis 550cc @bars) if that helps.
> 
> ...


I read to always get your bvc and ic values dialed in first as that will make fuel trims easier to adjust.

I can't get the link cause I'm on my phone but google search "great maestro 7" and go to the thread similar to this on on audizine. Pages 1-3 have recalling in depth information on how to dial in your BVC and IC values really well.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

burkechrs1 said:


> I read to always get your bvc and ic values dialed in first as that will make fuel trims easier to adjust.
> 
> I can't get the link cause I'm on my phone but google search "great maestro 7" and go to the thread similar to this on on audizine. Pages 1-3 have recalling in depth information on how to dial in your BVC and IC values really well.


http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/402750-The-Great-Maestro-7-Tuning-Suite-Thread/page2

heres the link


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

question for people using 80 mm tb. did you guys just use maestros base tb vs. airflow map for the 80mm tb or did you guys edit it? i know you change the y axis to match changes in alpha-n but just wondering if you changes any values in the map itself or if there is even a need to.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*BVC and Injector Constant*

Well, With the help from Dave I got my Injector Constant and BVC dialed in but I decided to move my AEM Tru Boost and A/F gauges to the A Pillar and in doing so something happened to the Tru Boost Gauge or the sensor inside the engine department. Its running ERS or ER5 which means a solenoid issue. I ordered them thru Amazon and wrote them two days ago. they got back to me yesterday and said a new one will arrive tomorrow and that I just have to print out a label from them to ship the old gauge and sensor back. Very Nice Amazon. Great Company, just giving them some ups. 

Anyways, I have my Injector Constant and BVC values at the following: 0.049617 and 1520, 1.045, 0.731, 0.611 and 0.541

My fuel trims are 0.0 and 0.8 so I am happy that Dave really got me heading in the right direction with this Maestro


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

polska_ts said:


> mine does the same thing but just doesnt go full lean. goes full rich and then goes to 14.7~ been trying to figure it out for a while. its doing what its supposed to because the req lambda hits like .8 than back to 1.0 which i have no idea where its getting the .8 req value from
> 
> *Mine does the same, and I've seen it on a lot of other user's logs*





sponcar said:


> I'm planning to spend the night to catch up with this thread today and find a way to work on my tune. I have always been concerned of great amount of timing pull since day one but nothing crazy like this.
> 
> *Those timing maps are what I call optimistic lol. Unles your running E85 or a nice WMI setup you will never see those numbers without crazy timing pull*
> 
> ...





sponcar said:


> Question! Should I start by histogram tracing my maps then apply changes or should I focus on getting my IC and BVC dialed first.? I understand the math applied to it but I don't know where to apply the math on the battery voltage compensation.
> 
> My IC is at 0.051504 (Genesis 550cc @bars) if that helps.
> 
> ...





polska_ts said:


> question for people using 80 mm tb. did you guys just use maestros base tb vs. airflow map for the 80mm tb or did you guys edit it? i know you change the y axis to match changes in alpha-n but just wondering if you changes any values in the map itself or if there is even a need to.*I would just change the axis. That map only seems to trace when there is a MAF attached.*






NJ1.8T said:


> Well, With the help from Dave I got my Injector Constant and BVC dialed in but I decided to move my AEM Tru Boost and A/F gauges to the A Pillar and in doing so something happened to the Tru Boost Gauge or the sensor inside the engine department. Its running ERS or ER5 which means a solenoid issue. I ordered them thru Amazon and wrote them two days ago. they got back to me yesterday and said a new one will arrive tomorrow and that I just have to print out a label from them to ship the old gauge and sensor back. Very Nice Amazon. Great Company, just giving them some ups.
> 
> Anyways, I have my Injector Constant and BVC values at the following: 0.049617 and 1520, 1.045, 0.731, 0.611 and 0.541
> 
> My fuel trims are 0.0 and 0.8 so I am happy that Dave really got me heading in the right direction with this Maestro


:thumbup:


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

sponcar said:


> Question! Should I start by histogram tracing my maps then apply changes or should I focus on getting my IC and BVC dialed first.? I understand the math applied to it but I don't know where to apply the math on the battery voltage compensation.
> 
> My IC is at 0.051504 (Genesis 550cc @bars) if that helps.
> 
> ...


You always want to start by getting your BVC and IC dialed in first because they can really change the way the car fuels. Once you have your short and long term fuel trims under 5 +/- then you want to dial in the other maps. Depending on how your car runs you may be able to get away with just fuel and timing maps. 

I would suggest getting the BVC and IC dial in and then taking it for a drive while logging and see how it drives, Make note of any idle issues, on/off throttle issues, full throttle, and general driveability of the new tune. Once you do this note any issues and then read this entire thread with these items in mind and then read the one on AudiZine and then start making notes of what other people have had issues and what they did to resolve it and start tweaking.

As suggested above don't just blindly apply the histograms, find out where it wants to add and subtract values and then manually edit your maps. You want smooth transitions between each block and if one wants a high value and the next is small or nothing then give it a small bump and try it again. give the surrounding blocks a smaller increase or decrease as well so they transition nicely and then drive & log again. If you are concerned about changing maps then export the map in question and then make changes and then you always have a fall back. 

There are so many ways of tuning these motors and once you have gone through a few of these kinds of threads you will get many different ways to do it. It makes it confusing and reading these equates to information overload but it starts to make sense once you start tweaking things, logging, then tweaking some more. There are a lot of great people on this site that are always happy to answer any question and give you their expertise.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

After getting the IC and BVC dialed in, would it be a good idea of doing a long log with some pulls in it then doing a tracing and histogram? I did a long 30 minute log of normal driving with some 3rd and 4th gear pulls in it. I wanted to ask, with this kind of log the tracing histogram is probably going to be full of all kinds of different numbers. What should or can I do with this kind of log? Apply histogram or just in areas that I think need a little tweaking?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

NJ1.8T said:


> After getting the IC and BVC dialed in, would it be a good idea of doing a long log with some pulls in it then doing a tracing and histogram? I did a long 30 minute log of normal driving with some 3rd and 4th gear pulls in it. I wanted to ask, with this kind of log the tracing histogram is probably going to be full of all kinds of different numbers. What should or can I do with this kind of log? Apply histogram or just in areas that I think need a little tweaking?



Thats exactly what you want to do. 

Limit change to no more than 2%. It will take a lot of logs to get there. Adjust the adjacent cells to keep the map smooth. 

If a log goes over 976kb and rolls into another, open the first log, and copy and paste the title bar (one that says time, engine speed, etc) into the next log.

Once you run the first log, load the second one and you wont get an error


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Well it was about 922kb and when I did the histogram and tracing all the cells that lighted up were 0.00, so what would be a good add and where would I do it, up top or down below towards the 5000 to 7400 rpm range. Also can you add just .25 or does it have to be .75



Dave926 said:


> Thats exactly what you want to do.
> 
> Limit change to no more than 2%. It will take a lot of logs to get there. Adjust the adjacent cells to keep the map smooth.
> 
> ...


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

In the injection correction map? Shouldnt have been all zeros.

Email me your log and file, that doesnt seem right. Tapp added more features in the last update, but I didnt think it affected that.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I did it in the pump gas timing map not the injection correction map


Dave926 said:


> In the injection correction map? Shouldnt have been all zeros.
> 
> Email me your log and file, that doesnt seem right. Tapp added more features in the last update, but I didnt think it affected that.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

If your timing pull is under 3, i dont think the histogram will pull anything.

And i believe it has to be in .75 increments.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

So do the tracing and histogram under injection correction.



Dave926 said:


> If your timing pull is under 3, i dont think the histogram will pull anything.
> 
> And i believe it has to be in .75 increments.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

For fueling yes.

It seems though with testing on my car, injection correction has little to no effect on fueling at high loads. Use main fuel correction for that.

Ill post a crap map and a log to go with it to prove it later.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

I just realized I was running my genesis 550cc at 4bars with bvc values for siemens 630cc. I thought it was okay since the tune called for it but now that I'm reading and learning about maestro, I have realized that I needed the bvc of bosch 550cc ev-14 since Genesis are identical but stronger units. So my bvc has been dialed with 550c ev-14 bvc values now.

So far I have set my egt threshold at 871.999917 since it won't allow me to leave it at 872* and time delay for power enrichment at 0.500000. Is that right?

Now I'm stuck trying to figure out how to work on main fuel correction map, injection correction map, and pump gas timing map. 
Does anyone know where can i start reading to get more familiar with this? I need to find out how to bring down my pump gas timing map.

Also, I was wondering how can you tell if your race gas timing map is activated? I have a feeling that is why my crazy numbers on timing pull.

By the way, I'm sorry to ask this since I'm sure it has been answered multiple times but I have tried to find information on what do you mean by setting the main fuel correction map and injection correction at 1.0001. Does this mean dial the whole map at 1.0001 (write this down on each cell?).
Sorry if that sounded dumb but I would feel worst if I don't ask this and let myself lead by assuming for what i understand.

Dave, regarding the power enrichment map, is it the PE.bin ?
A few months ago, you adviced me to tweak my PE and so you smoothed down a map for me that i never tried since I didn't know how much you wanted me to decrease for the time delay for power enrichment at that time.

Here is your map.


And this is how mine have been looked since day one.


Should I use this now? or should I bring it to 1.0001 as you said?


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## 96vrt (Sep 27, 2011)

I have the same questions. Assuming main fuel and injection correction maps are set at 1.0001 do you first log and trace alpha n to get throttle position fueling better, and after alpha N is closer what to do you with throttle vs. Angle and do you go to injection correction from there to dial in fuel better or go to main fuel? I know there are different ways but mainly do you start with alpha n with a 80mm and then what do you do from there. Any help would be appreciated. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## 96vrt (Sep 27, 2011)

polska_ts said:


> question for people using 80 mm tb. did you guys just use maestros base tb vs. airflow map for the 80mm tb or did you guys edit it? i know you change the y axis to match changes in alpha-n but just wondering if you changes any values in the map itself or if there is even a need to.


I meant to quote this in my comments above. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

sponcar said:


> I just realized I was running my genesis 550cc at 4bars with bvc values for siemens 630cc. I thought it was okay since the tune called for it but now that I'm reading and learning about maestro, I have realized that I needed the bvc of bosch 550cc ev-14 since Genesis are identical but stronger units. So my bvc has been dialed with 550c ev-14 bvc values now.
> *Contact USRT, they will give you the values for your injectors.*
> 
> So far I have set my egt threshold at 871.999917 since it won't allow me to leave it at 872* and time delay for power enrichment at 0.500000. Is that right?
> ...


*Power Enrichment/Full Load Lambda are target lambda maps, not a correction map. Setting it to 1.0001 would result in your car running at 14.7:1 under boost. Setting Main Fuel Correction/Injection Correction to 1.0001 effectively shuts them off, so that you can make adjustments to your BVC and Injector Constant without another map interfering*



96vrt said:


> I have the same questions. Assuming main fuel and injection correction maps are set at 1.0001 do you first log and trace alpha n to get throttle position fueling better, and after alpha N is closer what to do you with throttle vs. Angle and do you go to injection correction from there to dial in fuel better or go to main fuel? I know there are different ways but mainly do you start with alpha n with a 80mm and then what do you do from there. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


Just click on the 'a' on the Alpha N map. It will auto calculate a new axis for the Throttle vs Airflow.

You can use injection correction or main fuel correction to dial in fueling from there.


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## 96vrt (Sep 27, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> *Power Enrichment/Full Load Lambda are target lambda maps, not a correction map. Setting it to 1.0001 would result in your car running at 14.7:1 under boost. Setting Main Fuel Correction/Injection Correction to 1.0001 effectively shuts them off, so that you can make adjustments to your BVC and Injector Constant without another map interfering*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK I will check that out. Thank you! I assume that has to be done every time that changes are made to the alpha N? What is your opinion on alpha N. Is this the first and only step before fuel correction. It is a 2.0 stroker FSI crank, Street strip cams 80 mm throttle body. I am having trouble at light throttle with it bucking. I understand timing and fuel once I get the larger throttle body tuning figured out. By the way, where Are you from Dave? You are a great asset to this forum. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Corrections to the Throttle Angle vs Airflow?

Yes.

Once you set your BVC and injector constant, start tuning the alpha N as described.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Computer question*

Does anyone know if the new Acer® ICONIA W3-810-1600 8.1" 32GB Windows Tablet that runs Windows 8 and also has a USB 2.0 Port will run the Maestro Software? I am looking to not use my laptop and to use something thats smaller and easier to deal with in the car when doing logs and pulls.


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## 96vrt (Sep 27, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> Corrections to the Throttle Angle vs Airflow?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Once you set your BVC and injector constant, start tuning the alpha N as described.


Got it. Thanks again. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Is this right?

How it used to look my pump gas timing map



and after doing changes.



Should I smotth it down?


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## 96vrt (Sep 27, 2011)

sponcar said:


> Is this right?
> 
> How it used to look my pump gas timing map
> 
> ...


This is way wrong. Did you use the trace histogram and apply changes. If it is showing 7.50 correction that means 7.5% correction or change. On a timing map it's always negative percentage. Retrace and apply the percentage calculations rather then changing the fields to the correction number. The trace will do automatically if you hit apply changes. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

This is what I meant


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> This is what I meant


Dave! I just went to check the car and I found out that sure enough, I was running race timing. How that happened, I really do not know.


Also, I have a fault code P0238 Turbo/Super Boost Sensor A Circuit, High Input. (Map sensor).
I checked it and clean codes. I'll keep on eye on it since it is the only sensor helping control boost for now.
When trying to switch to pump gas timing, maestro is asking me for a key string. I already talked to Chriss and he told me to upgrade my flash software to the latest version.

Now my question is that I found out I was running on the wrong timing map, should I still do the tweaks you have advised me?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Switching active isnt turned on from the picture you posted. Get in touch with Eurodyne to get that fixed.

I would still apply the changes I suggested. 

If I remember correctly, your logs were showing the Timing advance pretty close to 20*, and there is no way in hell your going to hit that without knock on pump gas.


Just remember, its easier to add timing than add pistons:thumbup:


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Switching active isnt turned on from the picture you posted. Get in touch with Eurodyne to get that fixed.
> 
> I would still apply the changes I suggested.
> 
> ...


Yeah and so a reason why I don't wanna drive it before getting everything sorted out.

So just to double check this is what I should be looking at, right?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Looks good.

I did forget to mention, but just make sure your minimum timing map doesnt have values higher than what is in your pump gas timing map


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Looks good.
> 
> I did forget to mention, but just make sure your minimum timing map doesnt have values higher than what is in your pump gas timing map


Yeah highest is -20.250 but I can set the switch activate. It keeps asking me for a key string.
I'm already talking with Chriss regarding this


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Your looking at that map wrong.

Look at the axis for the RPM and Load. Your car will never, ever hit a load value of 233 at 600rpm.

Pat's car might, but thats a different story for a different day:laugh:

But it can hit a value that high, or close to it at 7000rpm


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Your looking at that map wrong.
> 
> Look at the axis for the RPM and Load. Your car will never, ever hit a load value of 233 at 600rpm.
> 
> ...


Jesus,:facepalm::laugh:
All right then the highest would be 21.000, right? which I believe still under the values I have in my pump gas timing map. Or am I still looking at the wrong way?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

For that given RPM/Load, but the value the same RPM with a higher load the minimum timing will be less.

You want the values on this map to be lower on comparable areas in the pump gas timing map.

I would worry about the values above 100% load.

If you want, run/trace one of your most recent WOT logs through this map, and see where it traces.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> For that given RPM/Load, but the value the same RPM with a higher load the minimum timing will be less.
> 
> You want the values on this map to be lower on comparable areas in the pump gas timing map.
> 
> ...


I tried and no values were changed whatsoever. It looks like it is not tracing histogram in my minimum timing map or do I have to do it in my pump gas timing map?
because if I do it on the pump gas timing map this is what i get.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Reason I said run the trace on the minimum timing map is to see where the tracer hits. Its only for educational purposes lol.

For example:

You can set the pump gas timing map to run 1* of advance, but if your minimum timing map is set to 6*, well guess what....

Its going to run 6*. In some situations that might be too much, and cause your car to pull timing or knock.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Reason I said run the trace on the minimum timing map is to see where the tracer hits. Its only for educational purposes lol.
> 
> For example:
> 
> ...


Oh I'm glad i'm making you smile/laugh while you're schooling me about maestro.

Now does this mean I can go head and flash the car with this tune, then take it for a normal drive under 3-3.5k rpms around my town and log it?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

sponcar said:


> Oh I'm glad i'm making you smile/laugh while you're schooling me about maestro.
> 
> Now does this mean I can go head and flash the car with this tune, then take it for a normal drive under 3-3.5k rpms around my town and log it?


If you adjusted the minimum timing map as suggested, and set the high load areas in pump gas timing map like I suggested then go for a rip.

Just keep an eye on timing pull with the logger.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> If you adjusted the minimum timing map as suggested, and set the high load areas in pump gas timing map like I suggested then go for a rip.
> 
> Just keep an eye on timing pull with the logger.


Well the only areas I see I have a higher minimum timing than my pump gas timing map is where I dialed my timing at 8* which became 7.5000 2.5k + rpms and 140% + loads. Should I do the same thing on my minimum timing map or take it for a drive, do a log and trace histogram on my minimum timing map? because I don't see any change suggested when using my old logs.


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## 96vrt (Sep 27, 2011)

*80mm throttle problems*

Ok, I am doing it wrong and I can't figure out what I should be doing. :banghead: Engine is 1.8t now a 2.0 fsi crank, rods, J.E Pistons, aeb head, iE street strip cams, apr intake, GT35 / 84 hybrid turbo and the kicker an 80mm throttle body. I have had success before with switching intakes or going to a S4 throttle body but When I data log and trace apha N with the 80mm it wants huge changes and when I apply huge 19% changes and calibrate the throttle angle vs. air to the changes it drove better, but when tracing that tune it calls for just as big of changes again. So I apply the changes calibrate throttle angle, and it repeats. I know it cant be right and I must be doing it wrong. I tuned it before with out calibration alpha N etc and it took large changes to the main fuel map to make it run right. It runs like crazy (between 400 and 500 hp) with decent looking logs,but I am not completely happy with the low rpm low throttle. I was hoping to help the situation with tuning in throttle air / fuel first, but I don't know what I should be doing first with the 80mm throttle body. I am in over my head this time. Does anyone have any advice, or the Alpha N map from a similar set up? What about Torgue models, do these need calibrated also. Sorry for all the questions, but I understand well the timing and fuel part on maestro but this Alpha N and larger throttle body have me confused.:screwy::screwy: Should I just forget it and deal with a jerky low end throttle? Any help would be appreciated.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Just a heads up errrrybody h20 is around the corner, I'll be there with my 20th who's down for a meet and great for maestro users and diy tuners?:wave: 

Would be fun to get together and share tuning success and mishaps


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

96vrt said:


> Ok, I am doing it wrong and I can't figure out what I should be doing. :banghead: Engine is 1.8t now a 2.0 fsi crank, rods, J.E Pistons, aeb head, iE street strip cams, apr intake, GT35 / 84 hybrid turbo and the kicker an 80mm throttle body. I have had success before with switching intakes or going to a S4 throttle body but When I data log and trace apha N with the 80mm it wants huge changes and when I apply huge 19% changes and calibrate the throttle angle vs. air to the changes it drove better, but when tracing that tune it calls for just as big of changes again. So I apply the changes calibrate throttle angle, and it repeats. I know it cant be right and I must be doing it wrong. I tuned it before with out calibration alpha N etc and it took large changes to the main fuel map to make it run right. It runs like crazy (between 400 and 500 hp) with decent looking logs,but I am not completely happy with the low rpm low throttle. I was hoping to help the situation with tuning in throttle air / fuel first, but I don't know what I should be doing first with the 80mm throttle body. I am in over my head this time. Does anyone have any advice, or the Alpha N map from a similar set up? What about Torgue models, do these need calibrated also. Sorry for all the questions, but I understand well the timing and fuel part on maestro but this Alpha N and larger throttle body have me confused.:screwy::screwy: Should I just forget it and deal with a jerky low end throttle? Any help would be appreciated.


Jerkiness with a big TB on a small engine go hand-in-hand. When your making logs to tune the Alpha N, try to be steady and smooth with the throttle.

I would not suggest applying the changes to the Alpha N map directly from the histogram. Use it as a guide, and adjust the cells individually by using hotkeys (CTRL +) or just ( - ). Alpha N is to just 'rough in' the fueling. It will still need refinement at a higher resolution in the injection correction map or the main fuel correction maps once the 02 corrections on the Alpha N map get to around 1%



Budsdubbin said:


> Just a heads up errrrybody h20 is around the corner, I'll be there with my 20th who's down for a meet and great for maestro users and diy tuners?:wave:
> 
> Would be fun to get together and share tuning success and mishaps


I cannot stand all the little gender confused beiber kids that attend these shows anymore. I most likely will never attend these again.


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## 96vrt (Sep 27, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> Jerkiness with a big TB on a small engine go hand-in-hand. When your making logs to tune the Alpha N, try to be steady and smooth with the throttle.
> 
> I would not suggest applying the changes to the Alpha N map directly from the histogram. Use it as a guide, and adjust the cells individually by using hotkeys (CTRL +) or just ( - ). Alpha N is to just 'rough in' the fueling. It will still need refinement at a higher resolution in the injection correction map or the main fuel correction maps once the 02 corrections on the Alpha N map get to around 1%
> 
> ...


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Pm sent.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Pm sent.


No more PM's people, these need to be explained on here so everyone gets something out of it:laugh: there all pretty good questions opcorn:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Just so I can have a look-see at the file and log, and if i can find anything funny.

Would always report back with my input. Better to come up with a clear and concise piece of opinion than shoot off the mouth with it being completely wrong.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Just so I can have a look-see at the file and log, and if i can find anything funny.
> 
> Would always report back with my input. Better to come up with a clear and concise piece of opinion than shoot off the mouth with it being completely wrong.


Awesome, thanks Dave.. Alot of the questions being asked are basically what I'd be asking so its working out good... 

really appreciate what your doing here helping us people out. Huge help, I've learned more in the last three weeks than in 2 years:thumbup::thumbup:

Well that and Chris Tapp always eveloving this thing for the better


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## 96vrt (Sep 27, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> Pm sent.


Soory couldn't send. "Dave926 has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."

I can email it to you. Email me and I will respond. [email protected]


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Hey everyone, let me start by saying that I am not the kind of person that likes to admit defeat, but I've been dealing with this problem since day one and I cant seem to fix it. My tune is pretty damn good: Idle is steady (on 630 siemens :thumbup, Afr hits target under boost, fuel trims are good, o2 corrections are +/- 5% at part throttle.

My problem occurs under deceleration. If I shift into neutral, or depress the clutch, instead my RPMs dropping to idle (1000) and holding steady, they drop to ~700 (motor starts lugging/running rough for a split second), then rise to ~1800. The process continues until my speed is down to 5-10 mph. At this point my idle settles to ~1200 and falls to 1000 as my speed reaches 0. This happens with/without braking, and happens about 80% of the time I come to a stop.

Not sure what I can tweak with maestro but any help would be great. Thanks


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Poody said:


> Hey everyone, let me start by saying that I am not the kind of person that likes to admit defeat, but I've been dealing with this problem since day one and I cant seem to fix it. My tune is pretty damn good: Idle is steady (on 630 siemens :thumbup, Afr hits target under boost, fuel trims are good, o2 corrections are +/- 5% at part throttle.
> 
> My problem occurs under deceleration. If I shift into neutral, or depress the clutch, instead my RPMs dropping to idle (1000) and holding steady, they drop to ~700 (motor starts lugging/running rough for a split second), then rise to ~1800. The process continues until my speed is down to 5-10 mph. At this point my idle settles to ~1200 and falls to 1000 as my speed reaches 0. This happens with/without braking, and happens about 80% of the time I come to a stop.
> 
> Not sure what I can tweak with maestro but any help would be great. Thanks



Have you messed with idle torque and alpha N values at idle?


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

I changed 1 cell in alpha-n/throttle angle vs airflow to get my idle to hold steady, and I've increased my idle torque. My car idles close to stock if its at a stop, the problem only shows up when I'm coming to a stop. 

Ill include my setup in case that helps.

Mafless 630cc tune
stock TB, tt225 intake mani
no leaks, makes good compression
3bar fpr (limits my top end, but idle pulse with a 3.5 or 4bar is too low for these injectors)
Pag bottom mount precision 5558
3in exhaust


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

I had a little tendency to chase at idle some time ago. Resetting alpha n and torque cured it for me. Might be a different problem you have..

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk 2


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

figured i would post in here after reading some stuff that i have. just so the public has any information i gain as well! 

converting to e85 this weekend. my setup is:
awp motor 
aeb head
forged rods w/aeb pistons
stock intake and tb
f23 w/tubular manifold
fmic
630cc siemens w/ walbro 255
3" catless turbo back
all emission deleted

been reading through the thread and talking to Dave a little bit about it. any of you guys who have successfully converted to e85 i'd love to pick your brain. getting the concept of the tuning side down. and i understand that to run e85 you have to run 30% more fuel to burn the ethanol. from what i understand, you use the injector wizard and change your injection constant to make up this difference. siemens 630cc IC is 0.051759 from the wizard in the map specifically for these. would adjusting for 30% more equal 0.351759? or am i way off here. any help is appreciated! thanks


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

I added the stoich difference between gas and E85 to my IC and another 25-30% for cold starts. Cold starts and warmup fuel correction on E85 just takes a lot of fiddling.

Edit:

Just looked at my maps in Maestro. The stoich difference between E85(9,8) and gas(14,7) to get lambda 1 is achieved by multiplying your E85 value by 1.5. 9,8 x 1,5 = 14,7.

However, running the wizard in maestro using my motor as example I get an IC value for gas. This value I need to multiply by 1.604 to get the IC I actually use when I run E85. 

2008cc +4 cyl and 1680cc injectors = 0,021867

My actual IC running E85 is 0,035076. 0,021867 x 1.604 = 0,035075

:beer:


----------



## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

ok so i'd take my IC for 630cc injectors, 0.051837, and multiply it by 1.5, so 0.051837 x 1.5 = 0.0777555

correct?


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

booster_ginster98 said:


> ok so i'd take my IC for 630cc injectors, 0.051837, and multiply it by 1.5, so 0.051837 x 1.5 = 0.0777555
> 
> correct?


Multiply IC value from Maestro by 1.604


But your setup differs from mine so it might get you in the ballpark.


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

Gulfstream said:


> Multiply IC value from Maestro by 1.604
> 
> 
> But your setup differs from mine so it might get you in the ballpark.


ok gotcha. i wasnt sure if i should use the 1.5 or the 1.604 you suggested as i wasnt sure if that was yours ended up being after tuning. now im starting to get it. i think. basically as long as i can get in a decent ballpark figure to get the car running, i can tune from there.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Alright, I have my Block 32 once again back to 0.0 and 0.8, did a 30 minute log and did a tracing and histogram on my pump gas timing and alot of 0.00 from 2000 rpms up to 7000 rpms. So I did a slight add just adding 0.75 in all the blocks and up high just about at 7250 there were a few -1.50 in the middle and I applied them also!


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

resetting idle torque and alpha n didnt fix anything, just made my idle rough :/


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

i just went to update to eurodyne flash 4.9.7 and my Norton blocked it and removed the application. anyone else have that problem?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

any eurodyne jedi masters going to be at h20?


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> Just a heads up errrrybody h20 is around the corner, I'll be there with my 20th who's down for a meet and great for maestro users and diy tuners?:wave:
> 
> Would be fun to get together and share tuning success and mishaps


Budsdubbin is:thumbup:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

IDK about a Jedimaster :laugh:but I've definitely come along way from when maestro first hit the market. Few people can soak info on me7 up like a sponge but most can't. I pretty much just force fed myself the info available and had many different setups to experiment with. I believe I'm on my 6th vehicle using maestro and I've helped with a few standalone ecu's. Key is to know the basics to advanced tuning methods before you even look at the translation. 

Tapp made it alot easier by adding the torque model mod in the past year. For those working with MED9, the torque model mod hasn't been finished so your forced to try and make it work with you. Which is the latest project I've had to tackle with a friends ko4 FSI setup if you thought the base files on the 1.8t were incomplete :banghead::banghead::banghead:. 

Dealing with multiple cars including the fueling setup on mine before h2o... I've barely had the time or energy to post lately.



Dave926 said:


> I cannot stand all the little gender confused beiber kids that attend these shows anymore. I most likely will never attend these again.


I know what you mean man but I've never let that stop me from having a good time with some of the OG's from around here. I've got a good group heading down so as long as there is beer flowing then :thumbup:


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

If you knew how to tune the torque maps properly, you wouldn't need a mod.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Just look at a few stock files and test things out.

MED9 is not as picky as MED17. Its not even that picky to begin with.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> If you knew how to tune the torque maps properly, you wouldn't need a mod.
> 
> It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Just look at a few stock files and test things out.
> 
> MED9 is not as picky as MED17. Its not even that picky to begin with.


trust me I've been playing with it. I don't believe the maf is 100% accurate which maybe one of my issues(maf housing is similar but not 100% same ID as stock), inaccurate reading will give me wrong load and from there throw off actual torque reading. Maybe I'm thinking way too far into things but that's all I got.  Ill have to look into acquiring target filling and optimal torque maps. Ive used the spreadsheet before on nefmoto on a stock turbo 1.8 application which worked out well but I'm not sure it has the same resolution that I need for the 2.0. Hopefully someday I'll get the hang of using the torque model.

Other than a few timing dips his car is running pretty good with my adjustments so far. Compared go giac and apr.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Yeah you need proper MAF housing and do not use the Nefmoto spread sheet lol


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

The one for Optimum torque and Target Filling?


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> The one for Optimum torque and Target Filling?


 Yeah don't use that lol.

Use stock values and rescale those.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Yeah don't use that lol.
> 
> Use stock values and rescale those.


You keep saying this... 

I want to know more of this as well...

Doesn't matter if MAFless though...Does it?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

If its in the means to stabilize timing, because tapps stage one is so smooth, then please explain.

If its to run a higher map, thats easy enough to understand.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

If you tune the torque maps properly you will have amazing stock-like part throttle response with no jerkiness and no timing oscillations without the need for any hacks whatsoever. 

PS: For the record, the timing "optimal" maps are related to cylinder pressure. I wouldn't touch them unless you have a valid reason to do so. They won't fix any timing oscillation you may have caused by a botched torque model.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I'll take your word for it mang.:beer: Starting scratch with the torque model it is. As for the maf housing I may try either rescaling if I can find the actual inner diameter of the evoms intake or using maf curve correction map to get the readings in check. Hope to see the gonzo booth at h2o:thumbup:

If any maestro users would like to meet up, share some beers and shoot the **** PM me or I'll just see you guys around one of the meets.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Yeah don't use that lol.
> 
> Use stock values and rescale those.


I assume one goes up, one goes down if I am thinking correctly.

What I think I am missing is, what about the users where their target filling is much higher than that of what the map sensor can read?


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Target filling is just KFMIRL which is just a load request based on pedal % (that comes from KFPED or whatever Maestro calls it) and RPM. KFMIRL is capped by LDRXN (forget the name on Maestro but everyone uses it to limit boost request).

You shouldn't really be concerned about KFMIRL being high as long as you got a nice range. If you are capped at 210 and the last 4 or 5 rows are 210+ then your range isnt good. I just edit the last 2 - 3 rows depending on the setup most of the times and it feels perfect.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> You shouldn't really be concerned about KFMIRL being high as long as you got a nice range. If you are capped at 210 and the last 4 or 5 rows are 210+ then your range isnt good. I just edit the last 2 - 3 rows depending on the setup most of the times and it feels perfect.


I assumed this is how tapp did it, part of me thought possibly it was to prevent torque intervention? Not sure why he had 100% torque request (last cell in KFMIRL) based on throttle input targeting 270% load on his ko4 fsi file. I don't know if he just threw this car together for a base file or if there is reasoning behind this. 

Not to mention loads from 110-170% @ 2000-3300rpm are selecting negative timing advance (-2 to -8 degrees) for cam position 2 why would anyone target timing advance like then in low load/rpm.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Gonzo do you essentially use stock opt torque and target filling and just change the last few columns associated with full throttle?

Also do you want your peak target filling column to mimic what you are actually running or do you request more?
EX. If your car sees say 200 as actual load at full throttle do you request 215 or keep it close to what the car is actually doing?

Obviously whatever you do to target filling you carry over to opt torque correct? Torque models were never my strong suite.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> If you knew how to tune the torque maps properly, you wouldn't need a mod.
> 
> It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Just look at a few stock files and test things out.
> 
> MED9 is not as picky as MED17. Its not even that picky to begin with.





DMVDUB said:


> You keep saying this...
> 
> I want to know more of this as well...
> 
> Doesn't matter if MAFless though...Does it?


Yes torque model is still used because load% is still being calculated based on throttle position and map reading. Which doesn't help for loads over map sensor limit.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Budsdubbin said:


> I assumed this is how tapp did it, part of me thought possibly it was to prevent torque intervention? Not sure why he had 100% torque request (last cell in KFMIRL) based on throttle input targeting 270% load on his ko4 fsi file. I don't know if he just threw this car together for a base file or if there is reasoning behind this.
> 
> Not to mention loads from 110-170% @ 2000-3300rpm are selecting negative timing advance (-2 to -8 degrees) for cam position 2 why would anyone target timing advance like then in low load/rpm.


 I wouldn't look into base files that much. After all, what tuner would actually give out really good base files with "do it yourself" software?


spartiati said:


> Gonzo do you essentially use stock opt torque and target filling and just change the last few columns associated with full throttle?
> 
> Also do you want your peak target filling column to mimic what you are actually running or do you request more?
> EX. If your car sees say 200 as actual load at full throttle do you request 215 or keep it close to what the car is actually doing?
> ...


 Actual has nothing to do with request. Its more like "I want X amount of load at X RPM's and X throttle %". Whether you can reach that or not is a different story. The ECU will not complain about not reaching that target load, but it will complain about overboost/underboost if the timers are not modified (something you have no access to with Maestro).

I usually request a lot more than actual at the last row. It's capped by LDRXN so it really doesn't make a difference. As long as your optimal torque maps are tuned properly, everything will mesh beautifully and sing every time you mash the pedal


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Low End Power and Pickup*

I just wanted to ask if there's a way with any of the maps that you can work in some low end power and pickup?

Here's a link to my DropBox folder with the file, a long log and two 3rd gear pulls.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/inbgn93chzlx1xf/qt11yioi3M


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

I didn't check your logs but maybe you can add some timing pre-spool.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm really interested in the Tq map thing... I'm just not sure what it does in entirety. 

My car drives smoothly, I don't think I ever reach the set values. Does this affect HP? 

My Tq map is way higher than the actual load levels. 

This is also something I can't use the histogram on can I? 

For example should I run my car and compare what the values are actually showing compared to those on the map then adjust them more closely to the actual value. Maybe a little higher so it doesn't overboost or freak out?


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

DMVDUB said:


> I'm really interested in the Tq map thing... I'm just not sure what it does in entirety.
> 
> My car drives smoothly, I don't think I ever reach the set values. Does this affect HP?
> 
> ...


 Nope. Do not touch it. Optimal engine torque map is the "inverse" (using the term loosely) of the target filling. Only edit it to reflect any changes you do on the target filling map, and you want to do this manually. I explained this like 2 posts ago.

The optimum timing maps has to do with the torque model and cylinder pressure. Do not touch these at ALL unless you have a very good reason to.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I need to do some experimenting to play with this.

Dmvdub, you can probably trace load boost actual over target filling to see whats going on. That at least is what I plan on doing with my car.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> I need to do some experimenting to play with this.
> 
> Dmvdub, you can probably trace load boost actual over target filling to see whats going on. That at least is what I plan on doing with my car.


 There is no point in doing that. What will you gain?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> There is no point in doing that. What will you gain?


This is kind of my point... What is to be gained from this map? 

Is it more for drivability? My car is smooth as butter... Except when it takes off on it's own for a second after a cold start  :laugh: Not sure what that is... Maybe the W/M has wrecked the TB?


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Where would you start off by adding some timing, would it be from say 1500 rpms up to about 4100 rpms where the spool kicks in?



[email protected] said:


> I didn't check your logs but maybe you can add some timing pre-spool.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

NJ1.8T said:


> Where would you start off by adding some timing, would it be from say 1500 rpms up to about 4100 rpms where the spool kicks in?


Gonzo is obviously the better person to have answer your questions, but I'll shoot. 

I added timing over the board until I could literally add no more. With no pull that is... maybe an occasional 1.5* on 93oct. 

I then started to notice that I got some interesting effects from lowering timing right before full spool. I actually started to lose power and spool even though I wasn't pulling timing... figure that one out.

Are you using VVT?


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Yes I do have the VVT active.



DMVDUB said:


> Gonzo is obviously the better person to have answer your questions, but I'll shoot.
> 
> I added timing over the board until I could literally add no more. With no pull that is... maybe an occasional 1.5* on 93oct.
> 
> ...


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> There is no point in doing that. What will you gain?


So that target filling meets actual? That was my theory at least


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> So that target filling meets actual? That was my theory at least


 If you lower request to reach actual, I suspect you will be lowering request with every revision you do. But try it and let me know


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> If you lower request to reacha ctual, you will be lowering request with every revision you do :laugh:


Dammit what do I gain or not gain by adjusting this map? :wave:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I was thinking if actual is higher, to raise target filling as well.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

dave sent me a base file and now I cant load my old file. says there is a licensing problem with my cable
and I cant get eurodyne to get back to me via email or call:banghead:


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

SGTphatboy said:


> dave sent me a base file and now I cant load my old file. says there is a licensing problem with my cable
> and I cant get eurodyne to get back to me via email or call:banghead:


Have you download the new update? I had a similar issue trying to switch timing maps and setting the switching box activate. They sent me a key number but I ended up solving it by re-flashing after doing an update to my flash software.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

sponcar said:


> Have you download the new update? I had a similar issue trying to switch timing maps and setting the switching box activate. They sent me a key number but I ended up solving it by re-flashing after doing an update to my flash software.


it happened when I did the update. kinda weird, but eurodyne finally sent me a link to download from. however I still cannot acces their site
:banghead:


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

All right guys, I have gotten in touch with Jason (Cryser) and he was kind enough to share one of his non vvt tune for 550cc at 4bar. IC= 0.057831. I imported both pump gas and race gas timing maps from his tune as well as the power enrichment into my file. I manually set the IC, bvc and egt setting according to his tune. I dialed the main fuel correction, injector correction and flowmeter correction to 1.0001 so I can do normal driving logs then trace on the maps.

So far I have noticed that a cold start was horrible, rpms would bounce and pop some slightly backfires but then when it warmed up the idle would stay steady. Although I got a steady idle my wideband gauge and ecu is telling me I am way too rich for idle. The request is 14.7 and actual lambda is 11.xx  I took it for a drive and the car feels very responsive, lambda would go as requested when just cruising around and even rpms would hang between shift pretty alike as oem (when I first got the car) I don't know how good that can be. Anyways, I still can't get rid of crazy knocking on cylinders which will suddenly appear on low rpms and when pressing the gas pedal a little deeper than usual. 

I was reading through the mafless thread last night and I saw that it has been found to be more effective to trace O2 correction on the injector correction map and Alpha N instead of the main fuel map. Should trace average data into a alpha N to get my fuel sorted out for idle?
Also, I wonder if this will help me get my timing pull back to normal since I believe it's because my fuel is all out of place. 

Reason I want to trace on maps instead of calculate the IC and BVC again is because I was chasing my tail with my old tune. It would asks me to subtract then when I had it near to 5-6% it would ask me to add. After reading the whole mafless thread I realized I was facing a problem that most of us went through while getting their IC and BVC into the 5% correction range.

Here are some logs I took of normal driving around my town.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...k5YTdRUzhlWGpzY3NxWll0V1E&usp=drive_web#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...hTbm11bXR2cEdyV0QyWkU5dXc&usp=drive_web#gid=0


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

sponcar said:


> All right guys, I have gotten in touch with Jason (Cryser) and he was kind enough to share one of his non vvt tune for 550cc at 4bar. IC= 0.057831. I imported both pump gas and race gas timing maps from his tune as well as the power enrichment into my file. I manually set the IC, bvc and egt setting according to his tune. I dialed the main fuel correction, injector correction and flowmeter correction to 1.0001 so I can do normal driving logs then trace on the maps.
> 
> So far I have noticed that a cold start was horrible, rpms would bounce and pop some slightly backfires but then when it warmed up the idle would stay steady. Although I got a steady idle my wideband gauge and ecu is telling me I am way too rich for idle. The request is 14.7 and actual lambda is 11.xx  I took it for a drive and the car feels very responsive, lambda would go as requested when just cruising around and even rpms would hang between shift pretty alike as oem (when I first got the car) I don't know how good that can be. Anyways, I still can't get rid of crazy knocking on cylinders which will suddenly appear on low rpms and when pressing the gas pedal a little deeper than usual.
> 
> ...


What injectors are you using?

[email protected] are ~630cc

He also was running a 2 liter, and your still on stock displacement, correct?


----------



## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> What injectors are you using?
> 
> [email protected] are ~630cc
> 
> He also was running a 2 liter, and your still on stock displacement, correct?


Genesis 550cc at 4bars. 
He said that this tune was done before to even install water meth on his car.
I was testing his tune but idle would be ridiculous rich so I'm trying to see how can I lean it on idle for now and see how the car likes it. I was reading on the mafless file that this can be done either on injector correction or alpha N. I disconnected the n80 for those logs posted before. Otherwise I will go back to my previous tune and tweak the one instead.


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I would suggest using a base file appropriate to your setup from the library.

Relying on another's tune to work for your setup is a bad idea, unless absolutely identical.

That being said, you only need to tune alpha n when you change the intake manifold or throttle body from a non OEM part.

Injection correction seems to work well at low loads/low injector on time/low engine speeds. At higher loads and engine speeds it seems to not work as well, and using main fuel correction seems to work better.


----------



## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

If I buy an Audi s4 maf and housing am I supposed to swap the stock sensor in to it? Or use the s4 sensor?


----------



## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> I would suggest using a base file appropriate to your setup from the library.
> 
> Relying on another's tune to work for your setup is a bad idea, unless absolutely identical.
> 
> ...


THANKS! That is a really useful information.


----------



## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Can someone help me out to address this?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...0xT0JzMjJnWjJVdHdCUlFXQ0E&usp=drive_web#gid=0

Is it that my power enrichment creates a lean mixture to the point that it will make my engine bump a lot of cylinder correction?

My timing maps are set too high that it will pull timing then cylinder will try to do correction to avoid any damage?

1st I found out that my plugs gap were 0.35-0.40  I gap them back to 0.28 but I will replace them since they have some sort of carbon build up.

I have a 2 hours trip to do with this car today and I wouldn't like to damage anything.
I have currently set my boost at pressure wastegate 10psi.


----------



## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

burkechrs1 said:


> If I buy an Audi s4 maf and housing am I supposed to swap the stock sensor in to it? Or use the s4 sensor?


you're suppose to use the s4 sensor with its housing.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Main Fuel Correction*

Well I got my injector constant dialed in and also my BVC values dialed in. Block 32 showed 0.0 and 0.8 and that was after a 40 minute drive. I actually closed the program and re opened it to get back to block 32 and there it was 0.0 and 0.8 but sometimes the 0.8 would go to 1.6 but then back down.
So the question is how do you dial in the Main Fuel Correction after you have the other two dialed in. I did a long normal drive with some decent pulls mixed in. When i do the histogram and tracing, some of the numbers are like -11.05 and so on. How do I fix that or do I just take the whole map and smoothed it out?


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Run a log through the histogram, and post a screen shot.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Dave how do I post a screen shot?



Dave926 said:


> Run a log through the histogram, and post a screen shot.


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Press print screen on your pc, and copy/paste it in paint.

My way sucks honestly, ask groggory


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Here's a link of the screen shot from dropbox.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l39sutkreo1fjwd/Screenshot%202013-10-06%2018.14.22.png

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l39sutkreo1fjwd/Screenshot%202013-10-06%2018.14.22.png




Dave926 said:


> Press print screen on your pc, and copy/paste it in paint.
> 
> My way sucks honestly, ask groggory


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

<img src="https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/15OsrIxxo1J3s9OcUsDrWqt2umDy7FeponDPEuESbQlc/pub?w=1440&h=1080">


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Alright, If I wanted to do a long log what should I include? Normal driving with a 3rd gear pull and make it about 30 minutes long? Just want to be able to look at the main fuel correction and as many blocks as I can! Also putting in a new set of NGK BKR7E spark plugs, what gap would be the best as I have hear from 22 all the way up to 27




Dave926 said:


> <img src="https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/15OsrIxxo1J3s9OcUsDrWqt2umDy7FeponDPEuESbQlc/pub?w=1440&h=1080">


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

getteing a session failed 'timeout error' 

no idea why or what to do. any help?


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

sponcar said:


> Can someone help me out to address this?
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...0xT0JzMjJnWjJVdHdCUlFXQ0E&usp=drive_web#gid=0
> 
> ...


I told you to email me with the log you took. Your load calculation is off with no maf(load is lower than it should be), Try using main fuel correction to compensate before you do that drop timing in problem areas using the tracer or I can just email you a good starting point for timing adjustment. If I were tuning it I would start off with adjusting the timing advance. 

Another issue I see is part throttle timing pull your not in heavy load and your timing is not over advanced so torque intervention is most likely the cause.


----------



## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

I will read all the pages to find my answers!:thumbup:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> Another issue I see is part throttle timing pull your not in heavy load and your timing is not over advanced so torque intervention is most likely the cause.


Timing pull is from potential knock, not torque intervention

Torque intervention shows up with timing all over the place


----------



## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

thinking I had an o2 poop out

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIdmF5Wmpidk9ITk0/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgILU5NS1luWVRqeTg/edit?usp=drive_web


----------



## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> I told you to email me with the log you took. Your load calculation is off with no maf(load is lower than it should be), Try using main fuel correction to compensate before you do that drop timing in problem areas using the tracer or I can just email you a good starting point for timing adjustment. If I were tuning it I would start off with adjusting the timing advance.
> 
> Another issue I see is part throttle timing pull your not in heavy load and your timing is not over advanced so torque intervention is most likely the cause.


I emailed you but probably you didn't get it. I'll send it again.


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## jetta021.8t (Feb 13, 2009)

Need a lil help or some kind of direction on fueling issue . Car was on the dyno today for about 4hrs to try and smooth out my tune . Problem we r having now it the idle and light throttle the o2 corrections are in the -20. Once you put a load on everything seem to be a lot better as maybe +- 2 . My first ? Is with 630cc injectors what should the bvc be at(right now it is showing .051837?)? In search of trying to look up ways to adjust I found that ppl were having trouble tuning these 630cc injectors would ID 725cc be any better. 

Next issue was that I'm running a 75mm tb an there is no tune for this if I tube using the 80mm tb should I use throttle vs angle to adjust to the 75mm ? Is it possible to take the avg. of the 70mm and 80mm and use those numbers ?
Thanks for any help as I am slowly trying to learn this tuning .. I could possible get the file and send or post if that helps .

Setup- 1.8t gt30r ,630cc ,75mm tb, custom intake manifold ,ported awp head


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

New update (new to me) something is different but I can't put my finger on it. The new trace options are there from the update before, but I can't quite figure out the difference

Anyone know what is is or just bug fixes?


Also, just got home and I'm messing with my "eco sport" file which is 15psi with a 18psi bump (wouldn't call it spike). The First few rows of my IC table look like a mountain then settle down then come back up again as a little hill. I can't figure out what would be causing all of this correction in this area? 

Although after I run logs and adapt it I get very minimal corrections. Just seems strange to have all of this correction up front. Maybe it's my VVT setting.. I really don't know. 

I do know, between all the work I've done on it 15psi is ripping it for a daily tune. Very surprising. I'd compare it to a K03S EXTENSIVELY modded running 25psi to redline. This is on 93 at the moment too.


----------



## Jekyll337 (Feb 25, 2013)

What is a typical file size on the initial "read ecu" file? I ran it twice and got 1 that was 1kb and one that was 29kb


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

jekyll337 said:


> what is a typical file size on the initial "read ecu" file? I ran it twice and got 1 that was 1kb and one that was 29kb


1024kb

Looking at it in my bootcamp folder they are all 442KB, but a normal flash file is 1024KB


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## Jekyll337 (Feb 25, 2013)

Oh man so something was wrong, well guess I get to go try again. Lol Thank you dmv


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

double post


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Anyone know of improvements to the no lift shift feature? I've got issues with it in rpm's above 4k no matter how much delay I enable(right now its set to 58ms). Kind of a disappointment not to have it with my setup.

Testing to see if it works is stressful :laugh:


----------



## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> Anyone know of improvements to the no lift shift feature? I've got issues with it in rpm's above 4k no matter how much delay I enable(right now its set to 58ms). Kind of a disappointment not to have it with my setup.
> 
> Testing to see if it works is stressful :laugh:



I though Chris said it was good to go, so I tried to set it up and it does not work for me no matter what value I give it.

I will play a little more this weekend and see if it works.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Are you mafless?


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> Are you mafless?


Yeah I am, why? Dont tell me it doesnt work on mafless cars!


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> New update (new to me) something is different but I can't put my finger on it. The new trace options are there from the update before, but I can't quite figure out the difference
> 
> Anyone know what is is or just bug fixes?
> 
> ...


They are only there if you want to compare a variable besides 02 corrections.


PernellGTI said:


> Yeah I am, why? Dont tell me it doesnt work on mafless cars!


Not to sound stupid, but is it turned on in your file?


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> They are only there if you want to compare a variable besides 02 corrections.
> 
> 
> Not to sound stupid, but is it turned on in your file?


Yeah it is on, I have tried different values and I can hear and see in my logs that the clutch switch does cut ignition when at idle but while im driving there is spark and my engine goes sky high in rpms...


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I may try throwing my maf back on to see if that changes anything.... Your issue sounds similar to the one I'm having. I get a backfire when clutch depresses at WOT then rpms soar so it may have something to do with a lower calculated load value which 90% of mafless users on here have. I've messaged tapp on this but no response yet. Its been about 4 days so who knows.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Guys are your rpms skyrocketing when you hit the clutch while using the cruise control? This is a known issue. I've emailed Chris about and he said he'd look into it. This is on the gen 2 vvt files. I actually haven't tested it lately to see if it has been revised.


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

spartiati said:


> Guys are your rpms skyrocketing when you hit the clutch while using the cruise control? This is a known issue. I've emailed Chris about and he said he'd look into it. This is on the gen 2 vvt files. I actually having tested it lately to see if it has been revised.


It happens to me, also! I almost **** my pants when I tried to test if pressing the clutch will disable the CC.
AFAIK, the 2step/NLS on mine is not enabled. 
If I check the clutch switch in VCDS MB066, it shows its broken. 
On a ECU without Maestro it works OK.
What can I do to regain 100% functionality of my clutch switch on the Maestro 7 ECU, being given I don't want 2step/NLS ?


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

got a questions when im tracing alpha N as a function of o2 correction after i trace the histogram do i just trace the values or do they need some interpretation and adjustments? do i have to worry about transient values at all? also what function do you guys use to trace when tuning injector correction?


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

spartiati said:


> Guys are your rpms skyrocketing when you hit the clutch while using the cruise control? This is a known issue. I've emailed Chris about and he said he'd look into it. This is on the gen 2 vvt files. I actually having tested it lately to see if it has been revised.


Nope haha Happened 3 times to me driving to H20 thru the middle of the night. Too tired to think about that.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

RodgertheRabit II said:


> Nope haha Happened 3 times to me driving to H20 thru the middle of the night. Too tired to think about that.


There are two clutch switches on my car and one wasn't being pressed after I did a new clutch setup and that's what fix my issue. Should give that a try.


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

ctapp wrote:The current version of Maestro has a version of the 2 step that does not use the clutch switch routines. I will rework the no lift shift stuff in the next while.
======================
^^^ Is this still valid? Is our clutch switch independent of the 2step/NLS?
http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=703&start=30


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

WiKKiDTT said:


> There are two clutch switches on my car and one wasn't being pressed after I did a new clutch setup and that's what fix my issue. Should give that a try.


I have an orginial clutch pedal/switch. It really shouldnt be an issue. I messaged him myself with no reply or plan of correction.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

spartiati said:


> Guys are your rpms skyrocketing when you hit the clutch while using the cruise control? This is a known issue. I've emailed Chris about and he said he'd look into it. This is on the gen 2 vvt files. I actually haven't tested it lately to see if it has been revised.


This is possibly caused if you have max throttle 100% when brake depressed. (Brake boost) mine shoots up but I remember to just slow down before I take it out of gear in cruise.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Budsdubbin said:


> This is possibly caused if you have max throttle 100% when brake depressed. (Brake boost) mine shoots up but I remember to just slow down before I take it out of gear in cruise.


Interesting. I never changed that in the file. I'll lower that and see if that changes anything.


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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*FV-QR*

I'm not using cruise control but when I do come to a red light or any stops it seems that the engine likes to rev up to about 1500-1900rpms. Does anyone know why this is happening as I haven't touched anything but BVC, Injector Constant, Main Fuel and Injection Correction. If anyone knows why this might happen it would be great as this gets annoying and worries me.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Not sure if relevant... my antilag / LC does it's thing with the clutch not depressed. 4,000rpm's and it goes :screwy:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

NJ your alpha N is probably off either that or your tackling the problem in your fueling in the wrong area's.


----------



## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

NJ1.8T said:


> I'm not using cruise control but when I do come to a red light or any stops it seems that the engine likes to rev up to about 1500-1900rpms. Does anyone know why this is happening as I haven't touched anything but BVC, Injector Constant, Main Fuel and Injection Correction. If anyone knows why this might happen it would be great as this gets annoying and worries me.


What TB are you running?


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## pielout (Jul 12, 2006)

Anybody ever have an issue logging in to the protected area?? I just received my tune from eurodyne direct and I can not get in to download what is needed. When I try to have it verify my email(which I think is what is keeping me from continuing on) I never receive an email. I would love to take my car on its first test drive this weekend but think they are closed this weekend:banghead:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

pielout said:


> Anybody ever have an issue logging in to the protected area?? I just received my tune from eurodyne direct and I can not get in to download what is needed. When I try to have it verify my email(which I think is what is keeping me from continuing on) I never receive an email. I would love to take my car on its first test drive this weekend but think they are closed this weekend:banghead:


What do you mean? once you have the Maestro software just click download base file, hit the read me and bam! Files.


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I'm using the stock Throttle Body? The only thing I did was change the BVC values and Injector contstant to get block 32 values to around 0.2 on both blocks. Also with Budsdubbin comments, I don't believe I ever played with the Alpha N but in case I did I will go to the 630cc TT225MAF file and trnsplant that Alpha N Bin over to my file.



[email protected] said:


> What TB are you running?


----------



## pielout (Jul 12, 2006)

DMVDUB said:


> What do you mean? once you have the Maestro software just click download base file, hit the read me and bam! Files.



I was under the impression from the instructions that I had to download the the Flash/Logging/ and editor programs all from their site? Or can I just plug in the Powertap plug and it has all the programs on it?(Sorry not near any of the equipment at the moment to see if thats how this works)


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

pielout said:


> I was under the impression from the instructions that I had to download the the Flash/Logging/ and editor programs all from their site? Or can I just plug in the Powertap plug and it has all the programs on it?(Sorry not near any of the equipment at the moment to see if thats how this works)


No you're right. You need to download the flash loader and maestro from the site. I thought you were talking about base files. If you are still having problems with downloading I'll upload the latest updates onto the Pandit project database.


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## pielout (Jul 12, 2006)

DMVDUB said:


> No you're right. You need to download the flash loader and maestro from the site. I thought you were talking about base files. If you are still having problems with downloading I'll upload the latest updates onto the Pandit project database.


Thanks for the offer:thumbup: It took 24hrs but I did get my email and now I have got all the programs needed to get started and have already flashed over the basic 630 file.....no I just have to figure out what the hell I am doing lol I didn't see any options out there that are MAF-less on the base files, and when I click on the flowmeter tab I do not see any MAFless option

Guess I better get to reading the 100+ pages


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

pielout said:


> Thanks for the offer:thumbup: It took 24hrs but I did get my email and now I have got all the programs needed to get started and have already flashed over the basic 630 file.....no I just have to figure out what the hell I am doing lol I didn't see any options out there that are MAF-less on the base files, and when I click on the flowmeter tab I do not see any MAFless option
> 
> Guess I better get to reading the 100+ pages


There is no MAFless option. Tune it with the MAF on the car then remove the MAF and re tune. That's how I did it and it worked out very well.


----------



## pielout (Jul 12, 2006)

DMVDUB said:


> There is no MAFless option. Tune it with the MAF on the car then remove the MAF and re tune. That's how I did it and it worked out very well.


Good to know, thank you:thumbup:


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## pielout (Jul 12, 2006)

I was actually thinking about trying one of the tunes in the pandit project database....I noticed there is a 630 maf less file out so I may give it a go


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

Does anyone know why in doing a run that the program always gets an error. I am trying to do a nice 3-7 minute normal drive and then throwing in a 3rd gear pull along with a 4th gear pull hitting about 125mph. Will the program not hold this type of info or speed limit? Has anyone else had this issue? I have the latest in both Maestro and Eurodyne Flash


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

NJ1.8T said:


> Does anyone know why in doing a run that the program always gets an error. I am trying to do a nice 3-7 minute normal drive and then throwing in a 3rd gear pull along with a 4th gear pull hitting about 125mph. Will the program not hold this type of info or speed limit? Has anyone else had this issue? I have the latest in both Maestro and Eurodyne Flash


Hit or miss issue. I would try a different USB port, lower the logging speed to minimum and then check to see if USB suspend settings are turned off in power management in windows. These typically help.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

spartiati said:


> Hit or miss issue. I would try a different USB port, lower the logging speed to minimum and then check to see if USB suspend settings are turned off in power management in windows. These typically help.


When I switched to a SSD (solid state hard drive) all of those issues went away. Most if not all of those issues come into play when the computer goes into "shock protection" mode.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> When I switched to a SSD (solid state hard drive) all of those issues went away. Most if not all of those issues come into play when the computer goes into "shock protection" mode.


Forgot about that one as well. SSD makes a nice difference in overall system performance and reliability. I was going to junk my old Asus 1201n for overheating and being slow. Installed an old ssd and modified the case for better airflow and now it is a dedicated car laptop.


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

*2step/NLS*

Please, somebody who has these functions enabled (2step/NLS), just check with VCDS MB066 the 2nd field, 4th bit from the right = clutch switch bit, whether it is functional.
On mine it looks dead. I wonder if it interferes at all with the Torque Control. Shoud it?
Is the 2step/NLS altering its functionality?


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

I am interested in converting my MK2 Corrado 16V Gt3076R from 034efi to the OBD2 Maestro 7.

I currently use Waste spark with a Crank trigger VR setup. 
I will be looking for a donor ECU and Harness. Which one?
I already have a IAC Temp and Coolant sensor.
I will also require COP Coils , Knock sensors, 2 02 sensors and a Motorized T/B preferably 80mm like a GM or Ford. 
*Can Maestro7 control the IAC of that TB? *
I want control of Idle, AFR and Knock to run in closed loop. OEM Drivability
I like the histogram feature of this product and I am sure it makes tuning easier.

I tuned my current setup to 425WHP 361WTQ on pump but without Knock control I have left some on the table.

Will I need a Cam hall signal? 
if so how many windows? 
and does the 16v head turn the hall sensor the same direction?

I am looking to start collecting the pieces soon.

Thanks
:beer::beer:


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

REPOMAN said:


> Will I need a Cam hall signal?
> if so how many windows?
> and does the 16v head turn the hall sensor the same direction?


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4001222-MK4-MKIV-2-0L-8v-AEG-AZG-gt-16v-head-swap&p=52064585&viewfull=1#post52064585


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

Nice I like you CPS solution. Simple
:beer::beer:


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## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

Is their a place to get pre made maps? Somthing with in the ballpark? 

reply typed by trained monkeys


----------



## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

Just ordered... now to read at least another 144 pages, plus multiple PDFs. 

Initial setup will be on an AWP with FT21, 5 bar FPR with stock injectors. Seriously looking at e85 as an option like a fellow VW in our local wetdub club.


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

REPOMAN said:


> I am interested in converting my MK2 Corrado 16V Gt3076R from 034efi to the OBD2 Maestro 7.
> 
> I currently use Waste spark with a Crank trigger VR setup.
> I will be looking for a donor ECU and Harness. Which one?
> ...


Without proper calibration of the kncok sensors to your engine I would be a little concerned about how accurate they wil work.



1fast2liter said:


> Is their a place to get pre made maps? Somthing with in the ballpark?
> 
> reply typed by trained monkeys


Base file library for your hardware is there. Will need chages based on your turbo.


hallkbrd said:


> Just ordered... now to read at least another 144 pages, plus multiple PDFs.
> 
> Initial setup will be on an AWP with FT21, 5 bar FPR with stock injectors. Seriously looking at e85 as an option like a fellow VW in our local wetdub club.


Wast of time. You need bigger injectors and a stronger pump.

If your remotely considering corn, start with some 1000cc injectors. And walbro makes an e85 pump


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

I have a good tune with the 034 currently so I know where this motor works best. 
Injection and timing so I'm confident with a little dyno time and the Maestro7 I can find more safe power and 
tighter drivability.
That is the name of the game after all. 
high Whp with drivability. 
Any thoughts on a donor ECU? AEB maybe
:beer::beer:


----------



## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

Dave...

Really - 1000's with an F21? River is using 630's with an F23 for e85, but I'll take your word for it with no personal experience.

Anyhow, that will wait as yes, it seems I'd have to swap out the 2 Bosch pumps (a tank lift to surge tank and an 044 to the engine) with e85 compatible ones like you mentioned. I have bigger priorities first, so 105 unleaded for fun days will have to do for now.


----------



## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

If I may, I suggest something in the 750-830cc range @3bar for F23 on E85


----------



## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

Q: If you have a pump that will push sufficient pressure - why would you run at 3 bar?

I'm just asking this because everything I've read has said to go higher pressure first (if you can), then larger injectors, since you will get better atomization from the higher pressure.

Am I missing something here with 1.8T engines where this is not a good idea?


----------



## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

With E85 you will probably run 26 to 30psi of boost pressure.

30psi = 2bar. 3bar base fuel rail pressure + 2 bar boost pressure = 5bar actual rail pressure.


----------



## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

Ahhhh Ha! (light-bulb on) Relative fuel manifold air interface pressure, not rail pressure. Got it.

I had not thought of that. At high boost you certainly would need that, and under decel it would "climb" to almost 7 bar - although I was under the impression that the hose to the FPR from the manifold was supposed to help it follow the manifold pressure. Does that only work from atmosphere towards vacuum, atmosphere to some pressure limit, or both?


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

REPOMAN said:


> I have a good tune with the 034 currently so I know where this motor works best.
> Injection and timing so I'm confident with a little dyno time and the Maestro7 I can find more safe power and
> tighter drivability.
> That is the name of the game after all.
> ...


Awp ecu is wideband and drive by wire. Aeb is not either of those two.



hallkbrd said:


> Dave...
> 
> Really - 1000's with an F21? River is using 630's with an F23 for e85, but I'll take your word for it with no personal experience.
> 
> Anyhow, that will wait as yes, it seems I'd have to swap out the 2 Bosch pumps (a tank lift to surge tank and an 044 to the engine) with e85 compatible ones like you mentioned. I have bigger priorities first, so 105 unleaded for fun days will have to do for now.


A little headroom thats all. Ive got 815s and they work pretty hard with a K03s when i use corn.


----------



## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

Anyone have any experience running Maestro on an AEB?

It is either $900 for a one time tune or $800 anytime I want. Seems like a no brainer.


----------



## Leonturbo (Nov 26, 2012)

who can tune my car online tuning? and how much it cost? , ( i not from USA)


----------



## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

*Cooler Weather*

So with the cooler weather coming on, whats the best option in tuning? Make sure block 32 are within decent specs of under 5% and if so do a nice and long from 1500 to 7300rpm pull and see how everything reads? Everything I do a pull and use my pump gas timing, all the blocks are 0.00
I changed my Full Load Lambda and also my PE maps so is that the cause of getting the 0.00 blocks? 
I figured with the cooler weather I would be able to advance timing a pretty decent amout and leave it there no matter how cold it gets later on this year and next


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

woodywoods86 said:


> Anyone have any experience running Maestro on an AEB?
> 
> It is either $900 for a one time tune or $800 anytime I want. Seems like a no brainer.


An ecu thats not wideband native wont be fun to tune. More of a guessing game than anything else.

That being said, either convert to wideband or see Jeff at united


----------



## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> An ecu thats not wideband native wont be fun to tune. More of a guessing game than anything else.
> 
> That being said, either convert to wideband or see Jeff at united


That sucks.


----------



## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

So quick question how do I make it when the accelerator is floored that it gives me everything my motor has and the throttle body is opened 100%. I don't need any torque control or any nannies I just want it to act like a normal motor on dbc and ****ing go. What maps do I need to adjust. Also what's the downside to maximum ve being set for let's say 250 across the board. 

I'm not worried about breaking anything in my motor and my car is fast it's just like it decides how much power I should make when I floor it. 


Also part throttle feels faster then full throttle under certain circumstances.


----------



## KmosK04 (Dec 18, 2012)

Hello guys I'm interested to buy maestro for my leon 1.8t 20vt auq engine with k04-23 setup. Does it support multimap changing? Hard and soft launch control? Flatshift?


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

KmosK04 said:


> Hello guys I'm interested to buy maestro for my leon 1.8t 20vt auq engine with k04-23 setup. Does it support multimap changing? Hard and soft launch control? Flatshift?


Multimap - Not on the fly (you need to connect the computer every time)

No soft launch

Yes to flatshift


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Does anyone know when each dwell table is active? 

Dwell vs Voltage 

and 

Dwell vs Load


From what I can assume dwell vs voltage is somewhat of an overall ceiling as a max value based on voltage and rpm, whereas Dwell vs Load is what the ECU normally uses in most scenarios. Can someone confirm?


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Does anyone know when each dwell table is active?
> 
> Dwell vs Voltage
> 
> ...


Without bothering to look into it, I would surmise that dwell vs load is the target or ideal, and dwell vs voltage is the modifier for variance in voltage.

Think of it as that to achieve the targeted dwell value, the computer must use the value in the dwell vs load map and modify that by the voltage function in order to achieve the target.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> Multimap - Not on the fly (you need to connect the computer every time)
> 
> No soft launch
> 
> Yes to flatshift


Flatshift? It's working? Mine hasn't worked yet.



Has anyone used a tablet to log with the flasher? I'm considering getting one but most come with a mini usb idk if I can just use a adaptor to regular usb. I've also seen people convert android to windows operating systems. Wanna know from you people that are computer savy.


----------



## oscardiaz (May 31, 2013)

does it show missfire graphics to?


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

sabbySC said:


> Think of it as that to achieve the targeted dwell value, the computer must use the value in the dwell vs load map and modify that by the voltage function in order to achieve the target.


That's how I understand it. 

This feature provides a multiplier map for the base coil dwell setting based on
input voltage, typically, as voltage drops, dwell can be increase to compensate for
lost spark energy due to lower coil input voltage.
:beer::beer:


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> Flatshift? It's working? Mine hasn't worked yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone used a tablet to log with the flasher? I'm considering getting one but most come with a mini usb idk if I can just use a adaptor to regular usb. I've also seen people convert android to windows operating systems. Wanna know from you people that are computer savy.


I just had to set the time really high before it started working. I think it's set for almost 170ms at the moment and it's reacting ok.

I've used the logger on my girlfriends windows 8 tablet / laptop thingy. It works fine. 

Technically you should be able to take an Android laptop and load a linux distro on it, then run Maestro in wine or a VM. I started to do this with a Galaxy tab and it proved too damned annoying.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Good to know! Thanks.... I havnt tryed the anything above 60 ms guess setting the limit that high shouldn't matter once clutch is engaged.


----------



## jonpwn (Aug 13, 2010)

Hi guys,

I'm running the base F21 file at 3bar with 550cc's. Ever since I loaded the file, the fuel doesn't cut off instantly when I lift off the gas to shift. The rpm will still rise about 200-400 rpm and it really disrupts engagement of the next gear, especially in first and second. Anybody have any idea what I can do to resolve this issue?


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

jonpwn said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm running the base F21 file at 3bar with 550cc's. Ever since I loaded the file, the fuel doesn't cut off instantly when I lift off the gas to shift. The rpm will still rise about 200-400 rpm and it really disrupts engagement of the next gear, especially in first and second. Anybody have any idea what I can do to resolve this issue?


Lower the decel fuel about 5% over the whole map. It can also be caused by the MAF correction table. Most if not all of the Frankenturbo base files are junk to start with. They're an ok starting point but leave a lot to be desired. 

Basically, set main fuel and IC as well as MAF correction to 1.0001 then save and upload on to the ecu. Now with your new file log the hell out of it and run the histogram on Injector Correction and MAF correction. IF the IC has a consistent 10+ % change over the map adjust the BVC (injector constant) and don't adjust fuel values. Run histogram on MAF and apply the values. Leave the main fuel alone. You will NOT need to touch this table until the end of making the file, and depending how well you do the rest you may not "need" to change it at all. 

Also if you have Antilag and NLS turned on it can cause rev hang.


----------



## jonpwn (Aug 13, 2010)

DMVDUB said:


> Lower the decel fuel about 5% over the whole map. It can also be caused by the MAF correction table. Most if not all of the Frankenturbo base files are junk to start with. They're an ok starting point but leave a lot to be desired.
> 
> Basically, set main fuel and IC as well as MAF correction to 1.0001 then save and upload on to the ecu. Now with your new file log the hell out of it and run the histogram on Injector Correction and MAF correction. IF the IC has a consistent 10+ % change over the map adjust the BVC (injector constant) and don't adjust fuel values. Run histogram on MAF and apply the values. Leave the main fuel alone. You will NOT need to touch this table until the end of making the file, and depending how well you do the rest you may not "need" to change it at all.
> 
> Also if you have Antilag and NLS turned on it can cause rev hang.


gonna have to do some research on what it is I'm adjusting before I do it, but thank you very much for your help. I don't have 2step or NLS, also should have mentioned I have a 14lb flywheel as well. 

I will let you know of the results, this rev hang does bother me. a lot


----------



## ryanvw (Feb 27, 2002)

i might be blind but how many cars can you use this on? guessing more then one since you are doing your own tuning..... how many base tunes can you ask for?


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

ryanvw said:


> i might be blind but how many cars can you use this on? guessing more then one since you are doing your own tuning..... how many base tunes can you ask for?


As many as you want but you must pay for "credits" to tune each car. I think $400 per VIN#


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

DMVDUB said:


> As many as you want but you must pay for "credits" to tune each car. I think $400 per VIN#


After that, the user of the flashed car, can he buy his own cable to do small adjustments on his own?


----------



## ryanvw (Feb 27, 2002)

DMVDUB said:


> As many as you want but you must pay for "credits" to tune each car. I think $400 per VIN#


gonna have to do some more research then

Your purchase of the Maestro Tuning Suite includes the following

Powertap® interface

Maestro® Software Suite consisting of the following 3 elements

Eurodyne® Flash

Maestro® logging software

Maestro® Editor

And to get you started:

Unlimited no charge access to Eurodyne base file library at the tuning level of your choice

Stage 1

Stage 2

Stage 3


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

ryanvw said:


> gonna have to do some more research then
> 
> Your purchase of the Maestro Tuning Suite includes the following
> 
> ...


Not sure what the point of this is?


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

It's 499


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## ryanvw (Feb 27, 2002)

Unlimited no charge access to Eurodyne base file library at the tuning level of your choice

Stage 1

Stage 2

Stage 3

says unlimited doesnt say for one car or vin


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

ryanvw said:


> Unlimited no charge access to Eurodyne base file library at the tuning level of your choice
> 
> Stage 1
> 
> ...


It's one car.


----------



## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

Would any of you be willing to look over a log for me? Im trying to find out how to post it right now. I'm having a few problems. 1 I keep falling back on min timing no matter what I do and 2 under light loads very on a down hill but where your still on the gas it bucks like crazy and it keeps telling me its adding 20+ % .

I think this will work. 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAWUBLhw_ARdGF0MkdJWEhRVWtuTzdjYVNXT05QOVE&usp=sharing

Thanks in advance!

And I should add info about the tune..
BEA stage one map
IC map was reset to 1.001 along with the maf map
IC is .059607
The car is running on full E85 
3" turbo back, stock intake box, Autotech 195* intake cam, and ghetto front mount. 
630 injectors
no VVT and all others shut off. 

I have been been doing light load logs and trying to get the maf and the IC maps smooth but just started that not too long ago. I also have tried the 630 stage 3 in the past and never had problems with the timing falling on its face!


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## ryanvw (Feb 27, 2002)

20psi now said:


> Would any of you be willing to look over a log for me? Im trying to find out how to post it right now. I'm having a few problems. 1 I keep falling back on min timing no matter what I do and 2 under light loads very on a down hill but where your still on the gas it bucks like crazy and it keeps telling me its adding 20+ % .
> 
> I think this will work.
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAWUBLhw_ARdGF0MkdJWEhRVWtuTzdjYVNXT05QOVE&usp=sharing
> ...


looks good so far... no knock, timing is holding and or going up  do some logs 3rd gear(5speed) pulls say 2000rpm to 6200-6500rpm and post it up! can most likely add 4-10 deg of timing forsure!

bucks eh, what you using for fuel pump or pumps???


----------



## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

ryanvw said:


> looks good so far... no knock, timing is holding and or going up  do some logs 3rd gear(5speed) pulls say 2000rpm to 6200-6500rpm and post it up! can most likely add 4-10 deg of timing forsure!
> 
> bucks eh, what you using for fuel pump or pumps???


 really! I don't want to go crazy with timing but what to get back to where a chipped car would be at (the bottom end is going to be getting some rods very soon). I can do a log later on tonight or tomorrow for sure. As for the fuel I'm using the stock pump with a inline welbro 255 and a harness from USRT. This is a Audi TT 225 6 speed also, not sure if that matters.


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

ryanvw said:


> bucks eh, what you using for fuel pump or pumps???



This is a log of it when on a very light load, but I'm not sure why it's not bucking par say more like a surging feel too it, I can make it happen in any gear at low loads on a down hill slope while still on the gas to keep my speed. It happens really bad at 2500 rpm at 61 mph when on the interstate.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Ui1iOTBsX3FYOGUyMzNPdXhkNEE&usp=sharing#gid=0

Fixed the link, changed the settings to public.


----------



## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

Budsdubbin said:


> It's 499


Is this for the cable + dongle ? (in addition to the $400 for just being flashed by a dealer?)


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

rogerius said:


> Is this for the cable + dongle ? (in addition to the $400 for just being flashed by a dealer?)


Why dont you ask eurodyne or any dealer??? I swear you people are lazy.

The price is for the software and dongle, and you flash your own car.


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## ryanvw (Feb 27, 2002)

looking at o2 correction now looks like its adding fuel to keep the car running..... what you using for a fuel pressure regulator??? do you have a wideband installed on the car?


----------



## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

ryanvw said:


> looking at o2 correction now looks like its adding fuel to keep the car running..... what you using for a fuel pressure regulator??? do you have a wideband installed on the car?


Stock 3bar, and going off the stock wide band (BEA to start with). That last log its very faint surging But ill post another one of it at 2600 rpm. Other then that the car runs too damn good every where else.. I'm thinking it's a TB/air and Alfa N problem. The other thing I don't get is my injectior MS is 1.70ish the min is set for .79 I think and when you let off the pedal it will only drop to 1.40 if I understand this right that number is too high.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

20psi Now, Your fuel is all over the place. You're going very lean in places and pretty rich in others. You should be one or the other, not both. I believe your log showed a correction of +20% and more in spots. I would personally up the BVC 15% and then log it again. keep adding a little to BVC until you are running rich, THEN adjust the IC. Also before you do any of this set the main fuel and IC to 1.0001. Once you have it on one side of rich / lean (pref' rich) then using the IC will be much easier. There should be no need in adjusting main fuel until you're down in the +/- 5% range and lower. 

This is my way of doing it, I'm not sure it's how other people would do this but it works and it works well. 

Also, a very BIG piece of advice I can give you is to not adjust more than one map per revision. There is exception to the rule, but not until you can understand fully what you're doing. 

Steps-

1. Set Main Fuel and Injector Correction to 1.0001

2. Raise BVC (Injector Constant) by 10-20%

3. Log

4. Report back


----------



## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> 20psi Now, Your fuel is all over the place. You're going very lean in places and pretty rich in others. You should be one or the other, not both. I believe your log showed a correction of +20% and more in spots. I would personally up the BVC 15% and then log it again. keep adding a little to BVC until you are running rich, THEN adjust the IC. Also before you do any of this set the main fuel and IC to 1.0001. Once you have it on one side of rich / lean (pref' rich) then using the IC will be much easier. There should be no need in adjusting main fuel until you're down in the +/- 5% range and lower.
> 
> This is my way of doing it, I'm not sure it's how other people would do this but it works and it works well.
> 
> ...


Ok will do, basically starting where I started at to begin with but don't tuch the the correction tables right now. Should I also reset the maf table? I'll godo a log right now after iI reset the correction tables.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

20psi now said:


> Ok will do, basically starting where I started at to begin with but don't tuch the the correction tables right now. Should I also reset the maf table? I'll godo a log right now after iI reset the correction tables.


Yes make the MAF table 1.0001 (I always forget that one, I'm mafless  )

But yes, let's just start over. It's not a big deal to start over. Plus I've found doing fuel in this manner makes it much easier. Just toss the logs back up here when you're done. When you log it do one with several 2nd gear lowest rpm possible to redline, and 3rd low rpm to redline (if you can safely). Then do one of just driving around normally, going though stop signs / lights, cruising, just normal driving. This will give a full idea of what it's doing. Log it for a good while both times as well, you need the fuel trims to set in. Each log should be over 200kb I personally just hit log and run it for about 30min, this makes a few files when it hits its max.


----------



## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> Yes make the MAF table 1.0001 (I always forget that one, I'm mafless  )
> 
> But yes, let's just start over. It's not a big deal to start over. Plus I've found doing fuel in this manner makes it much easier. Just toss the logs back up here when you're done. When you log it do one with several 2nd gear lowest rpm possible to redline, and 3rd low rpm to redline (if you can safely). Then do one of just driving around normally, going though stop signs / lights, cruising, just normal driving. This will give a full idea of what it's doing. Log it for a good while both times as well, you need the fuel trims to set in. Each log should be over 200kb I personally just hit log and run it for about 30min, this makes a few files when it hits its max.


:laugh: I'll see if I can do a 3 gear pull, ill go play with it now though but need to be at work in 6 hrs so that should be me the logs at least for today.. Never mind I mess read your last post on my phone, lol.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

20psi now said:


> :laugh: I'll see if I can do a 3 gear pull, ill go play with it now though but need to be at work in 6 hrs so that should be me the logs at least for today. Thanks again added 15% to the IC so now its .068043.


Ok let's see how that changes things


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

This isn't Maestro specifically but it's a good definition source for most of the functions in Maestro. I really want one of these ECUs 

http://www.linkecu.com/support/glossary


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

Ok this is one 3rd gear pull, I'm gonna have to call it quits till tomorrow night when the street is more clear to be doing pulls and I can also see the screen on the computer! AF don't dip till 16psi!  

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAWUBLhw_ARdFdBOWpkSVpETzB6Wnk0MnVEdmRUYVE&usp=sharing

This one is just a cruise/ and the end some stopping and going. The other part of the log keeps popping up a message about some key... That part of the log has most of the stop and go on it. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAWUBLhw_ARdFM5dHpSeWhjYTFsVHdXLXUybWotZlE&usp=sharing

I also logged it with psi and AF so the its in the numbers that I like to look at now that I think about it the other logs I never changed just did it off the (dash screen). Also block 32 is sitting at 0.0 and -11.7 even though there are still lean spots (If I'm looking at it right)..


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> This isn't Maestro specifically but it's a good definition source for most of the functions in Maestro. I really want one of these ECUs
> 
> http://www.linkecu.com/support/glossary


:thumbup: I'm use to normal ecu's! Hondata is what my buddy use's in his turbo civic, and very simple to use and understand!


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## ryanvw (Feb 27, 2002)

do another 3rd gear pull and pull out spark plug number 2 right when the pull is done shut down car! post pic of plug......


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

ryanvw said:


> do another 3rd gear pull and pull out spark plug number 2 right when the pull is done shut done car! post pic of plug......


Ok I can do that, it will be Sat night though. I have a feeling this is going to be a long week! Thank god I have a beater to drive around.


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> 2. Raise BVC (Injector Constant) by 10-20%


i don't know if im misreading your post but BVC and injector constant are two different things..


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

robbyrr said:


> i don't know if im misreading your post but BVC and injector constant are two different things..


I meant Injector Constant, lots of tuning reading lately and I'm getting term happy. Add to BVC subtract from IConstant. 

This is from One-Eight GTI,

irst block in 032 X Injector Constant = time in MS.

the 032 block is in %. You injector constant is in ms/%. so..... % x ms/% (%) cancels out and you're left with (ms). This method is ONLY for adjusting Voltage Compensation.

The second block is simply scaling your injector constant by the second value in 032.
Example... 032: -1.875 +5% <====== -1.875 was originally +1.875. This was a typo.
Original hypothetical Constant = 0.05000

1.875% x 0.0500ms/% = 0.09375ms <===== subtract this from your BVC table.

5% = 0.05

0.05 x 0.05000 = 0.0025.. 0.0025 + 0.05000 = 0.05250. <==== your new Injector Constant.

This is from Maestro forum, but he's here too.

Link to that conversation, it explains what I'm trying to explain a lot better. I'm good a doing not teaching...but I try
http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1003&start=30


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

20psi now said:


> Ok this is one 3rd gear pull, I'm gonna have to call it quits till tomorrow night when the street is more clear to be doing pulls and I can also see the screen on the computer! AF don't dip till 16psi!
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAWUBLhw_ARdFdBOWpkSVpETzB6Wnk0MnVEdmRUYVE&usp=sharing
> 
> )..





I looked at that 3rd gear pull log and the turbo gets to 20psi 3krpm Small Turbo?
You are lean as **** for any power plus the timing is hella retard . 
It finally hits 12.4AFR at 4500rpm but timing is at full retard -7.5 BTDC No Power there.
There is a lot of 02 correction from 2500rpm until it goes pig rich at 6200rpm. What is causing that?
Knock on #3 added timing at 5krpm @20psi, fuel dipped below 12.5..
You got some tuning to do.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

REPOMAN said:


> I looked at that 3rd gear pull log and the turbo gets to 20psi 3krpm Small Turbo?
> You are lean as **** for any power plus the timing is hella retard .
> It finally hits 12.4AFR at 4500rpm but timing is at full retard -7.5 BTDC No Power there.
> There is a lot of 02 correction from 2500rpm until it goes pig rich at 6200rpm. What is causing that?
> ...


New info, he's running E85 on a BEA engine, stock K04-023 with 630cc injectors. I haven't gotten info back if he's running them at 3.5 or 4 bar and if he has a secondary HPFP on his setup. Since he's running E85 I have a feeling this is all happening because there's a lacking in supporting hardware.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

DMVDUB said:


> New info, he's running E85 on a BEA engine, stock K04-023 with 630cc injectors. I haven't gotten info back if he's running them at 3.5 or 4 bar and if he has a secondary HPFP on his setup. Since he's running E85 I have a feeling this is all happening because there's a lacking in supporting hardware.


Bye bye rods 

Better taper that boost spike.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Bye bye rods
> 
> Better taper that boost spike.


I'm not tuning it for him  

But yes that should be noted.


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

REPOMAN said:


> I looked at that 3rd gear pull log and the turbo gets to 20psi 3krpm Small Turbo?
> You are lean as **** for any power plus the timing is hella retard .
> It finally hits 12.4AFR at 4500rpm but timing is at full retard -7.5 BTDC No Power there.
> There is a lot of 02 correction from 2500rpm until it goes pig rich at 6200rpm. What is causing that?
> ...


Yes tuning hella lean in spool and boost, in the past I had imported maps from the BEA stage 3 and had it sitting at 12.2 at 6psi. But I got so far in to playing with things that every thing went to wack. I have always had problems tuning no timing what so ever since day one. Even when the car was on 91.

Parts on the car! 
034 compression droping sitting at 8.6.1 ish right now (long story about that) 
Autotech 195* intake cam only
Ghetto front mount 2.5" pipe
3" turbo back no cat
Single mass vaule stock replacement clutch. 
Welbro 255 inline 
630cc injectors
Still tuning 3 bar fuel pressure
No vvt what so ever
There is more I think I can't remember right now.

As for rods go I have another bottom end that will be hitting built come tax return, as for the past tunes that have been on the car every thong has been set for low boost 17 psi with little spike as I was trying to get this tune sorted out. Never been able to target the af I want when I want it. That's why I'm asking for some direction. I read till my eyes bleed and every one has there own way of going about tuning. I'm trying to follow as best I can but this is not a dd and most of my driving is done trying to get low loads set in place.


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

Target AFR's
14.7 at idle 
13.5 light cruise
13.0-12.7 under boost 
12.2-12.4 for safe 15psi up

retard 1-2 deg for every 3-5psi
Be sure your setting for Knock pickup retards 5 degrees when knock is detected. 
Data log Data Log Data Log.
This software has a histogram, Use it.

I don't know what a 20v 1.8t timing map looks like but my 2.0l 16v
has a idle of -9btdc 
1500rpm no boost 18btdc
3000rpm 26btdc to red line
under boost I pull down to -18 to -16btdc at 20psi on pump 92 octane.

The 20v head flows more then my 16v so less timing will be required. 
smaller bore = less timing.
under boost you are at 7btdc to 9btdc 
this could be correct for that motor or not.

SO in a nut shell get the AFR's dialed in then make sure the Knock compensator is PULLING timing not adding timing.
Then add 5 degrees of timing. Data Log. Look for any Correction. Add to map. 
I really got to get me one of these Maestro 7's...


----------



## ryanvw (Feb 27, 2002)

3bar yikes..... i would be using 4bar for this set up!!!


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## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

Man there are a lot of great minds in here! When it comes to tuning 

Maestro is next on my list of things to purchase.

Any recommendations on reading materials (textbooks, google, wikis, etc.) to help me be a little more adept not just on Maestro 7 but tuning in general?


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

woodywoods86 said:


> Any recommendations on reading materials (textbooks, google, wikis, etc.) to help me be a little more adept not just on Maestro 7 but tuning in general?


nefmoto is a great source, with a good wiki and lots of knowledge and some more.


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

Does he have the fueling system for 30% to 40% more fuel due to using E85?
it has to maintain 3 or 4 bar for a steady AFR.
The small turbo 630cc should be enough injector.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

REPOMAN said:


> Does he have the fueling system for 30% to 40% more fuel due to using E85?
> it has to maintain 3 or 4 bar for a steady AFR.
> The small turbo 630cc should be enough injector.


It should be, but I would personally rather have more injector than I need than less. Especially with a finicky fuel.


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

I think I saw 14-15ms injection at full kick on his 3rd gear pull data log. the AFR lambda was .82, that was good.
That is a lot of duty cycle,10ms is around 60%


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

REPOMAN said:


> I think I saw 14-15ms injection at full kick on his 3rd gear pull data log. the AFR lambda was .82, that was good.
> That is a lot of duty cycle,10ms is around 60%


I still think we need to get some more logs from him. I think he's going ahead and getting a 4bar just so the injectors have more room to play. I'm hoping by adding a 4bar with his current state of tune we'll see it go rich across the map, seeing that being on one side of stoich' or the other makes it easier to dial in I figure this a good solution. Plus if he ever decides to dyno tune it he will have extra fuel if he decides to increase boost. Depending on his boost curve he could probably get close to 300whp if he avoids a violent onset. I'm pretty sure I ran over 300lbft on stock internals but the boost was very linear. I'm not saying that's advisable. I know I ran 280lbft on the K03S and possibly more since that was at 22psi and I pushed that up to 30psi. Enough ranting, what I'm getting at is... if he tunes it on the dyno he can watch his toque levels and stop when it gets too high, while tuning for higher boost at higher RPM. How well does the K04-023 hold boost over 5K?


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

REPOMAN said:


> I think I saw 14-15ms injection at full kick on his 3rd gear pull data log. the AFR lambda was .82, that was good.
> That is a lot of duty cycle,10ms is around 60%



Don't think of duty cycle like this. Duty cycle is directly related to rpm.

15ms @ 5000 rpms = 62% DC
15ms @ 6000 rpms = 75% DC
15ms @ 7000 rpms = 88% DC

Also going to a higher FPR is going to put much more strain on the fuel pump. If the current one cannot maintain pressure at 3 bar then you may actually run leaner (under full throttle only) with the 4 bar FPR. 

If he does not have an upgraded fuel pump then this is where he should start.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

spartiati said:


> Don't think of duty cycle like this. Duty cycle is directly related to rpm.
> 
> 15ms @ 5000 rpms = 62% DC
> 15ms @ 6000 rpms = 75% DC
> ...


He does have an inline


----------



## ryanvw (Feb 27, 2002)

never understand why people dont just buy 1000cc injectors cost is the same pretty much and if you ever wanna go really big you can


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

spartiati said:


> Don't think of duty cycle like this. Duty cycle is directly related to rpm.
> 
> 15ms @ 5000 rpms = 62% DC
> 15ms @ 6000 rpms = 75% DC
> ...


I was taking a guess on the actual duty cycle.. I saw the ecu call for boost the tiny turbo giving it all then overshoot at 20psi the waste gate quick to control it. but the fuel was lean then overshot to rich.

1000cc is a good injector size but they can be difficult to maintain a good idle AFR at minimum pintal speed.
Great for race cars not so much for daily drivers.


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

REPOMAN said:


> I was taking a guess on the actual duty cycle.. I saw the ecu call for boost the tiny turbo giving it all then overshoot at 20psi the waste gate quick to control it. but the fuel was lean then overshot to rich.
> 
> 1000cc is a good injector size but they can be difficult to maintain a good idle AFR at minimum pintal speed.
> Great for race cars not so much for daily drivers.


Speak with Scott over at USRT. The 1000cc g2 injectors idle like stock and will fuel most of the common turbo setups.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

spartiati said:


> Speak with Scott over at USRT. The 1000cc g2 injectors idle like stock and will fuel most of the common turbo setups.


Yep the new gen injectors are sweet. Not hard to deal with like the old stuff. 

Like said before, use the biggest injector you can so you have room to play with and ability to use other fuels. Nothing sucks more than running out of injector, especially if you've spent a small fortune building a BT setup or even a cornfed Hybrid setup.


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> Yes make the MAF table 1.0001 (I always forget that one, I'm mafless  )
> 
> .


*why does the maf table need to be changed? He has a stock airbox, assuming a stock maf too. That map is for pre maf airflow correction. Only needs to be changed if he isnt using a stock airbox.*



20psi now said:


> Ok this is one 3rd gear pull, I'm gonna have to call it quits till tomorrow night when the street is more clear to be doing pulls and I can also see the screen on the computer! AF don't dip till 16psi!
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAWUBLhw_ARdFdBOWpkSVpETzB6Wnk0MnVEdmRUYVE&usp=sharing
> ..


Log looks good. You sure thats E85 in the tank? You shoukdnt be seeing any timing pull, especially withthat little advance.



ryanvw said:


> do another 3rd gear pull and pull out spark plug number 2 right when the pull is done shut down car! post pic of plug......


Good way to strip out spark plug threads on an engine with an aluminum head



REPOMAN said:


> I looked at that 3rd gear pull log and the turbo gets to 20psi 3krpm Small Turbo?
> You are lean as **** for any power plus the timing is hella retard .
> It finally hits 12.4AFR at 4500rpm but timing is at full retard -7.5 BTDC No Power there.
> There is a lot of 02 correction from 2500rpm until it goes pig rich at 6200rpm. What is causing that?
> ...


Your looking at the timing a little wrong.

That fueling curve is most likely due to how his fueling is setup. Using lambts with egt protection instead of lamfa for pre-emptive fueling.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave, I'm used to tuning for no stock air box and MAF so sometimes I miss stuff. 

I'm trying to help 5 different people right now get straightened out. So far I don't have any complaints from any of them and my base files are working well the way I do it. Some of the users are up to revision 5 to 7 of their file and are running strong. Not sure but it seems the way I do it is working. If I don't have to mess with the MAF table at all then maybe I won't from now, but most people don't have much of a stock anything if they have maestro.


----------



## ryanvw (Feb 27, 2002)

Dave926 said:


> Good way to strip out spark plug threads on an engine with an aluminum head.


never happened to me before done it a million times but ok.... old school tuning look at plugs


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

ryanvw said:


> never happened to me before done it a million times but ok.... old school tuning look at plugs


You're right about this tactic, but with our wideband sensors and if you have an aftermarket AFR gauge, it's made this tactic obsolete. I do look at my plugs when I change them every 3,000 miles to see if the cylinders are running equally rich, lean or stoich. 

So, you're not wrong. It's just not needed with the setups we have. The last thing you want to do is have to break out the helicoil because the head was still hot and you messed up the threads. I've never met an enthusiast that has never cross threaded something. Me personally, I've cross threaded the oil filter on my Jeep more times than I care to tell :banghead:


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

Dave926 said:


> *why does the maf table need to be changed? He has a stock airbox, assuming a stock maf too. That map is for pre maf airflow correction. Only needs to be changed if he isnt using a stock airbox.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just offering my read on his data log. It is retard for rpm and boost. it must be heat related. 
I really like this Maestro system. far more advanced then what I am running.

The fact you can tune per cylinder injection. Super sequential .

I see a difference on my plugs from Cyl#1 to #4. 
Number 4 being closest to my 80mm T/B runs leaner then 1 2 and 3.
So I have to tune for #4 cyl and run the others rich. 

Can Maestro 7 adjust per cylinder?
Super Sequential

:beer::beer:


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> Dave, I'm used to tuning for no stock air box and MAF so sometimes I miss stuff.
> 
> I'm trying to help 5 different people right now get straightened out. So far I don't have any complaints from any of them and my base files are working well the way I do it. Some of the users are up to revision 5 to 7 of their file and are running strong. Not sure but it seems the way I do it is working. If I don't have to mess with the MAF table at all then maybe I won't from now, but most people don't have much of a stock anything if they have maestro.


More than one way to skin a cat, I suppose.



ryanvw said:


> never happened to me before done it a million times but ok.... old school tuning look at plugs


Ive done it too, but keep in mind these cars have cylinder selective knock control and widebands. Fart next to the car, I guarantee you could log it.



REPOMAN said:


> Just offering my read on his data log. It is retard for rpm and boost. it must be heat related.
> I really like this Maestro system. far more advanced then what I am running.
> 
> The fact you can tune per cylinder injection. Super sequential .
> ...


Nope. Given the setup on your car, going on nefmoto and using something ffom there might be a better idea.


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

On a side note,

Does anyone have an issue with the ecu requesting something really, really rich as the engine returns to idle?


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> On a side note,
> 
> Does anyone have an issue with the ecu requesting something really, really rich as the engine returns to idle?


I've seen that a few times. I think it's that economy mode getting confused since at idle or off throttle it shoots for an AFR of like 40:1 :screwy: 

After a few revisions it seems to go away though. Also, I wonder if it's fuel left from before being burnt off slower when the revs go down.


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> I've seen that a few times. I think it's that economy mode getting confused since at idle or off throttle it shoots for an AFR of like 40:1 :screwy:
> 
> After a few revisions it seems to go away though. Also, I wonder if it's fuel left from before being burnt off slower when the revs go down.


Matt,

It *requesting* it.

At row 353.

Here is the log
.https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgMf58LTPUUodDZXcHdLSUVVMVA5SWxQbXpveVFXbFE&usp=sharing


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

What the hell?

That's weird... I was thinking about just a sudden dip in actual not request. 

1st Why would it do that?

2nd How would you change that?


What does the first few rows of your fuel table look like?

I try not to do any correction if possible (or as little as possible) to idle and up right before 2000rpm if I can. 

3rd This is why we need a Lambda map. Instead of corrections I would like a map that I can set my lambda request.

Edit: Could it be temp related?


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> What the hell?
> 
> That's weird... I was thinking about just a sudden dip in actual not request.
> 
> ...


No idea whats causing it.

Its something wrong with the code, or a map we dont have access to.

There is lambda vs temp map, but this car its all set to stoich.

Ive emailed tapp, but we all know how that goes.

Maybe gonzo has some insight, so I can let Chris know?


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> No idea whats causing it.
> 
> Its something wrong with the code, or a map we dont have access to.
> 
> ...


Personally I wish we could have a REAL update that take the training wheels off. 

I know we get a lot of updates but I don't notice a difference. I kinda feel like Chris made this and then said eff them it's good enough. In reality, we could've spent a couple hundred more and gotten a full function piggyback or standalone system that comes with startup or "Base files". Sure they are aren't specific to a turbo, but I don't use those anyhow. I'd be willing to pay $150 for an upgrade that gave us much more control. I really like how megasquirt does their maps... kinda wish we had some of those options.


----------



## ryanvw (Feb 27, 2002)

DMVDUB said:


> Personally I wish we could have a REAL update that take the training wheels off.
> 
> I know we get a lot of updates but I don't notice a difference. I kinda feel like Chris made this and then said eff them it's good enough. In reality, we could've spent a couple hundred more and gotten a full function piggyback or standalone system that comes with startup or "Base files". Sure they are aren't specific to a turbo, but I don't use those anyhow. I'd be willing to pay $150 for an upgrade that gave us much more control. I really like how megasquirt does their maps... kinda wish we had some of those options.


with standalone ecu's there would be many days your car dont start and so on.... factory ecu's have something stupid like 500+ hours of logging done.... so any temp and weather car runs, you just have to find out what is jacked in your tune/file... i would start with a stock tune then keep changing little things.... this is basically standalone set-up with using stock ecu


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

ryanvw said:


> with standalone ecu's there would be many days your car dont start and so on.... factory ecu's have something stupid like 500+ hours of logging done.... so any temp and weather car runs, you just have to find out what is jacked in your tune/file... i would start with a stock tune then keep changing little things.... this is basically standalone set-up with using stock ecu



If it takes you days to get a standalone setup just to start, perhaps it should be left to a professional.

On a side note,

Im considering playing with bigger map sensor. Lets brainstorm the ins and outs of doing this using Maestro.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

ryanvw said:


> with standalone ecu's there would be many days your car dont start and so on.... factory ecu's have something stupid like 500+ hours of logging done.... so any temp and weather car runs, you just have to find out what is jacked in your tune/file... i would start with a stock tune then keep changing little things.... this is basically standalone set-up with using stock ecu


I used a standalone system on my SVT Focus Turbo and we were running within an hour. It took one dyno session and we were set. Sure I had help, but looking back I could do it myself now without issue. Also, depending on the standalone some have base files like VIPEC.


----------



## ryanvw (Feb 27, 2002)

DMVDUB said:


> I used a standalone system on my SVT Focus Turbo and we were running within an hour. It took one dyno session and we were set. Sure I had help, but looking back I could do it myself now without issue. Also, depending on the standalone some have base files like VIPEC.


one dyno session and you car ran perfect every day??? I really doubt that..... starting the car is not a issue, getting it to run right and different temps and so on is a different story, I was just saying stock ecu has adjustment maps for every type of weather and so on!


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

In regards to requested lambda ... Lambda vs temp is the map for that. X axis is air temp I believe and y axis is coolant temp. 

I understand that's not what is requested 100% of the time but that is what it requested at idle and light loads. I used this map to set my afr to 15.5:1 and it certainly helps with cruising on the highway. Coming home two weekends ago from upstate with 4 adults in the car driving at a modest 75-80 mph the car got a hair over 440miles to a tank. Granted this was almost all highway but I never had a better tank than that. 

If you do change lambda vs temp you'll likely need to adjust the fueling to bring the corrections back in line.


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

People tend to overcomplicate tuning a standalone setup and quite often find themselves way over their head.
Theres a lot to it, but if you apply basic concepts to it, its not that bad.

That being said, I still want to talk about running a bigger map sensor.

What is the stock one, 2 bar or 2.5 bar?


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

REPOMAN said:


> I was taking a guess on the actual duty cycle.. I saw the ecu call for boost the tiny turbo giving it all then overshoot at 20psi the waste gate quick to control it. but the fuel was lean then overshot to rich.
> 
> 1000cc is a good injector size but they can be difficult to maintain a good idle AFR at minimum pintal speed.
> Great for race cars not so much for daily drivers.


Minimum pintal speed :laugh: never heard that one before. Depends on the manufacturer but when your talking about 1000cc injectors in a 1781cc motor injector on time will most likely act in a nonlinear fashion. Given the correct manufacturer's(assuming injectors unmodified) latency values and offsets there is no reason you couldn't obtain a solid idle. Your just going to have to pony up the $$$ for a quality injector with good injector data. My gen2 1000cc's produce a smooth idle. You also need to make sure your fuel delivery is setup properly and isn't causing excessive fluctuations in rail pressure.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

ryanvw said:


> one dyno session and you car ran perfect every day??? I really doubt that..... starting the car is not a issue, getting it to run right and different temps and so on is a different story, I was just saying stock ecu has adjustment maps for every type of weather and so on!


You can doubt all you like, and yes we spent about an hour getting it running (awfully rich) next day drove it to the dyno and after about 5 hours the car ran perfectly every day. I also paid someone to tune it, as it was when I was 22 I had much better things to do with my time. 



Dave,

The MAP sensor discussion is something that most likely won't be something that will work out with Maestro. There's a way to use a 5 bar but you need to scale all of the maps in half therefore losing half of the resolution. No matter what it will max out at 2250 or 2530 whatever millibar it is... so you'll always have to multiply by 2 to get the true value. The ecu itself can't do it.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> People tend to overcomplicate tuning a standalone setup and quite often find themselves way over their head.
> Theres a lot to it, but if you apply basic concepts to it, its not that bad.
> 
> That being said, I still want to talk about running a bigger map sensor.
> ...


2.5bar and the euro TDI is 4bar. I also contacted Tapp regarding this, according to him it wasn't possible, no response on the matter after linking nefmoto 5120hack(i had a feeling that would happen). Even though it is he may not give us the maps necessary. That being said this way of scaling would only help those who use n75 for boost control above 2.5 bar. Since there is a cap on what the ecu can actually read then mafless setups running at those boost levels will have to compensate in fueling because you'll eventually hit a wall in load calculation. 

If your looking for a wider range for boost control via then go ahead but other than that there are no other benefits. Sad thing is opening up a MED9 file and realizing he added 3 and 4 bar map options. :banghead:

An even greater disappointment is VW waited until the mk7 jetta 1.8tsi to introduce a speed density based fuel management system(mafless). :banghead:


----------



## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

MAP sensor is not used for fueling FWIW


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> 2.5bar and the euro TDI is 4bar. I also contacted Tapp regarding this, according to him it wasn't possible, no response on the matter after linking nefmoto 5120hack(i had a feeling that would happen). Even though it is he may not give us the maps necessary. That being said this way of scaling would only help those who use n75 for boost control above 2.5 bar. Since there is a cap on what the ecu can actually read then mafless setups running at those boost levels will have to compensate in fueling because you'll eventually hit a wall in load calculation.
> 
> If your looking for a wider range for boost control via then go ahead but other than that there are no other benefits. Sad thing is opening up a MED9 file and realizing he added 3 and 4 bar map options. :banghead:
> 
> An even greater disappointment is VW waited until the mk7 jetta 1.8tsi to introduce a speed density based fuel management system(mafless). :banghead:


Well then perhaps you big turbo/mafless guys can correct me.

Once the map sensor is maxed out, doesnt load go static at 190% too? 

My thought process is that by running a larger map sensor, it gives you the ability to scale things down. I know logged boost would obviously be incorrect.

Just brainstorming here.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Well then perhaps you big turbo/mafless guys can correct me.
> 
> Once the map sensor is maxed out, doesnt load go static at 190% too?
> 
> ...


Simply said, this isn't the right software if you want the ECU to read higher boost pressures. There's tricks to make the n75 produce a steady 22psi or a steady 28psi even 30psi, but it's all tricking it. 

I've been able to get reliably higher than MAP pressures from the N75. Sadly, Trying to explain how it's done would be like trying to explain how to read and then speak Aramaic without a "rosetta stone".

Sure the load maxes out and the Mbar maxes out on the ecu but as Gonzo mentioned this has no effect on fuel. The added airflow from the turbo has an effect, but the numbers themselves don't. 

Example: I can request full boost / load at 2000rpm but don't reach the ecu's preset full boost of 22.5psi until say 3500rpm. Even though it's requesting that boost it's not requesting the fuel until it sees a change in lambda.


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I get the whole thing about running boost pressure past the map sensor using the n75.

My thought process is, use a larger map sensor (for mafless users) to rescale the actual load so that 190% load is 30psi, not 22. 

By doing this, a big turbo user's fueling isnt the same at 30psi as it is at 22psi using the stock map sensor.


----------



## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

That's a lot of work.

You can just do what I plan to do. Do the 5120 patch and then add Boost * RPM fuel correction maps to the ECU logic.

Both solutions are out of the scope of Maestro, though.


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> That's a lot of work.
> 
> You can just do what I plan to do. Do the 5120 patch and then add Boost * RPM fuel correction maps to the ECU logic.
> 
> Both solutions are out of the scope of Maestro, though.



Thanks for mentioning that lol.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> MAP sensor is not used for fueling FWIW


When switching to speed density how else is the ecu sensing load? I mean there's throttle position, rpm and barometric pressure.


----------



## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Budsdubbin said:


> When switching to speed density how else is the ecu sensing load? I mean there's throttle position, rpm and barometric pressure.


In what Bosch docs did you read that ME7 runs on a speed density model?


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> In what Bosch docs did you read that ME7 runs on a speed density model?



I think he means mafless.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

spartiati said:


> I think he means mafless.


Steve, you know as well as I do if someone uses the wrong term (even though they mean the right thing) someone is going to jump on it. 

I use the wrong terms all the time, I just do stuff... I'm not a teacher


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> Steve, you know as well as I do if someone uses the wrong term (even though they mean the right thing) someone is going to jump on it.
> 
> I use the wrong terms all the time, I just do stuff... I'm not a teacher


Lol I know. Just clarifying...


----------



## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

MAFless, Alpha-N, and Speed Density are not interchangeable terms


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> MAFless, Alpha-N, and Speed Density are not interchangeable terms


Well... DUH :laugh:

Neither are orange and green


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> MAFless, Alpha-N, and Speed Density are not interchangeable terms


I read through the Bosch documents but focused more on info related to torque control. No you definitely got me I didn't slip up. I simply assumed something that gonzo corrected me on and it makes perfect sense.:banghead: Now it makes sense that a certain sensor is placed in a odd ball spot to me. your the mang gonzo or whatever your real name is.

No wonder all the fuel correction maps are so wacked out on mafless files.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> I read through the Bosch documents but focused more on info related to torque control. No you definitely got me I didn't slip up. I simply assumed something that gonzo corrected me on and it makes perfect sense.:banghead: Now it makes sense that a certain sensor is placed in a odd ball spot to me. your the mang gonzo or whatever your real name is.
> 
> No wonder all the fuel correction maps are so wacked out on mafless files.


His real name IS Gonzo. It's like my name is Matt, which is short for Matthew... 

Speed density MAF after turbo

Mafless No MAF

Alpha-N Flow Map


----------



## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

This may be dumb to ask buy why has no one found a way to follow the DSM guy's running a GM MAF after the turbo?
'


----------



## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

REPOMAN said:


> I think I saw 14-15ms injection at full kick on his 3rd gear pull data log. the AFR lambda was .82, that was good.
> That is a lot of duty cycle,10ms is around 60%


The MS is still under the 80% duty cycle on 630's...



DMVDUB said:


> I still think we need to get some more logs from him. I think he's going ahead and getting a 4bar just so the injectors have more room to play. I'm hoping by adding a 4bar with his current state of tune we'll see it go rich across the map, seeing that being on one side of stoich' or the other makes it easier to dial in I figure this a good solution. Plus if he ever decides to dyno tune it he will have extra fuel if he decides to increase boost. Depending on his boost curve he could probably get close to 300whp if he avoids a violent onset. I'm pretty sure I ran over 300lbft on stock internals but the boost was very linear. I'm not saying that's advisable. I know I ran 280lbft on the K03S and possibly more since that was at 22psi and I pushed that up to 30psi. Enough ranting, what I'm getting at is... if he tunes it on the dyno he can watch his toque levels and stop when it gets too high, while tuning for higher boost at higher RPM. How well does the K04-023 hold boost over 5K?


I have posted a log of the most resent run with new maps in place.



DMVDUB said:


> He does have an inline


Yes I have a welbo inline with the stock pump.



ryanvw said:


> never understand why people dont just buy 1000cc injectors cost is the same pretty much and if you ever wanna go really big you can


Hey now don't hate on the poor foke! :laugh:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAWUBLhw_ARdFpFekZONXRNRUlNTmpVLWVMNXVxVGc&usp=sharing


After this the tank is almost dry and Thinking I will be going back to 91 and giving up on E85 for the time being... I don't seem to have a full understanding on how the ME7 work and it seems to be the best option for me right now.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> His real name IS Gonzo. It's like my name is Matt, which is short for Matthew...
> 
> Speed density MAF after turbo
> 
> ...


Incorrect. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAP_sensor 

Your describing a blow through maf setup. Idk where you got the info that speed density is blow through.

.....No maf = mafless :laugh: I literally lol'ed at that.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> Incorrect. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAP_sensor
> 
> Your describing a blow through maf setup. Idk where you got the info that speed density is blow through.


Like said before I get terminology screwed up... either way, why would you want a speed density setup? You're relying only on IAT and MAP pressures when a blow through utilizes all of them and gives the most accurate readings.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

For one you have to find a maf that can take the punishment of the charge side without fail, then I'm sure turbulence in the flow of air could be a decent problem to tackle when calibrating. Depending on the placement you may have to worry about back flow from recirculation. Yes there are benefits but I don't see the hassle being worth it. I've chosen to run mafless fpr the time being in a forced closed loop which has worked out well for logging, idle and a more consistent lambda target being hit. When you have a setup like mine there are so many variables complicating issues when tuning with maf enabled(without a properly setup maf you'll notice you'll be chasing your own tail with fueling and torque control. So far my tune and the base files I've given to a few others on here have worked out well. 

I'm not big headed, I'm not the source of the end all be all answers, I contribute what I can when I can from my experiences but also learn in the process

We should stop talking about speed density when posting on this topic. gonzo pointed out something that I've been completely oblivious of which is somewhat embarrassing from this end.:laugh:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> For one you have to find a maf that can take the punishment of the charge side without fail, then I'm sure turbulence in the flow of air could be a decent problem to tackle when calibrating. Depending on the placement you may have to worry about back flow from recirculation. Yes there are benefits but I don't see the hassle being worth it. I've chosen to run mafless fpr the time being in a forced closed loop which has worked out well for logging, idle and a more consistent lambda target being hit. When you have a setup like mine there are so many variables complicating issues when tuning with maf enabled(without a properly setup maf you'll notice you'll be chasing your own tail with fueling and torque control. So far my tune and the base files I've given to a few others on here have worked out well.
> 
> I'm not big headed, I'm not the source of the end all be all answers, I contribute what I can when I can from my experiences but also learn in the process


I'm working with someone with almost the same setup you're running and we are using the MAF. I personally prefer MAFless, but I'm not having too much issue dialing it in. 

As for blow though setups, I used one on my 2G Talon / Eclipse and it ran flawlessly. Only real issue I see with blow though would be people who are running W/M. 

It seems to me when fuel trims get hard to dial in, it's easiest to go MAFless. Not sure if it's a cop out or not at this point. I'm not saying you're taking the easy way out (I'm in the same boat, I just got sick of MAF issues).


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

Budsdubbin said:


> For one you have to find a maf that can take the punishment of the charge side without fail, then I'm sure turbulence in the flow of air could be a decent problem to tackle when calibrating. Depending on the placement you may have to worry about back flow from recirculation. Yes there are benefits but I don't see the hassle being worth it. I've chosen to run mafless fpr the time being in a forced closed loop which has worked out well for logging, idle and a more consistent lambda target being hit. When you have a setup like mine there are so many variables complicating issues when tuning with maf enabled(without a properly setup maf you'll notice you'll be chasing your own tail with fueling and torque control. So far my tune and the base files I've given to a few others on here have worked out well.
> 
> I'm not big headed, I'm not the source of the end all be all answers, I contribute what I can when I can from my experiences but also learn in the process
> 
> We should stop talking about speed density when posting on this topic. gonzo pointed out something that I've been completely oblivious of which is somewhat embarrassing from this end.:laugh:



Well said, I agree. 
A maf with Dense, Supersonic air speeds at 30psi is an issue.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> I'm working with someone with almost the same setup you're running and we are using the MAF. I personally prefer MAFless, but I'm not having too much issue dialing it in.
> 
> As for blow though setups, I used one on my 2G Talon / Eclipse and it ran flawlessly. Only real issue I see with blow though would be people who are running W/M.
> 
> It seems to me when fuel trims get hard to dial in, it's easiest to go MAFless. Not sure if it's a cop out or not at this point. I'm not saying you're taking the easy way out (I'm in the same boat, I just got sick of MAF issues).


 Well it should make sense to you. Each bt has their own intake setup with different filters/diameters. This will make each setup different to tackle when calibrating the maf, at the end of the day you pull the maf out of the equation then that's one less variable to compensate for. Basically if you have a poorly calibrated maf then your going to run into problems with the torque maps.

Also your eclipse or talon obviously runs a entirely different ecu. A lot more basic then what we are working with. It's not a torque based system, you do not have a torque model to follow and to me the maps are pretty straight forward. Torque intervention is not something you'll be running into on a talon


----------



## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

Sorry guys I keep forgetting to share this on public! 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAWUBLhw_ARdFpFekZONXRNRUlNTmpVLWVMNXVxVGc&usp=sharing


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## Ronald_Reagan (Feb 16, 2012)

Whoever spots the problem first gets an internet high five.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Ronald_Reagan said:


> Whoever spots the problem first gets an internet high five.


That file sucks? Do I won something?


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

20psi now said:


> Sorry guys I keep forgetting to share this on public!
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAWUBLhw_ARdFpFekZONXRNRUlNTmpVLWVMNXVxVGc&usp=sharing


Jesus... Your fuel is all over the place. :screwy:


----------



## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> Jesus... Your fuel is all over the place. :screwy:


I'm trying! Work with me, that was the BEA stage one with fuel maps imported from the stage 3file. At least it dips richer with in boost! Like I sad the tank is almost dry block 32 was -3.1 and -11.5 if I pull fuel out of the injector consent it goes back to what I started with nd crazy lean. It will be back on 91 next weekend...


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

20psi now said:


> I'm trying! Work with me, that was the BEA stage one with fuel maps imported from the stage 3file. At least it dips richer with in boost! Like I sad the tank is almost dry block 32 was -3.1 and -11.5 if I pull fuel out of the injector consent it goes back to what I started with nd crazy lean. It will be back on 91 next weekend...


I wan't belittling you. I was just saying it's crazy. 

Why are you importing maps?

I personally use the stage 3 base file for every file I build. I just have to determine VVT or No. 

I've had the best success with these files as a starting point since they are the most basic of the bunch. 

Adjust the second to last number in the constant minus one. It'll come out -1.something but it'll be a 1% change not a 10% change.


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> I wan't belittling you. I was just saying it's crazy.
> 
> Why are you importing maps?
> 
> ...


Because I'm not all to sure how to go about making the car spool up right when it comes to the stage 3 maps, I have ran it in the past though and its like pulling the n75 out of the system and going to MBC on a stock turbo car... on and off swtich. Even thought the car is still on a k04 for the time being with I find the will or free time (my upcoming weekend) it will be back on 91. Like I stated I dont know much of the 411 on how to controle boost if you mess around with the VE maps (not sure) if there are inverse maps that need to be changed too like target filling, TB and Air flow maps, ect so I my self never have played with them.


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## Ronald_Reagan (Feb 16, 2012)

DMVDUB said:


> That file sucks? Do I won something?


Not even close.

Compare the two. The data Maestro is displaying is wrong. It has inverted axises.

This is a bug on all the "G2 VVT" files.

Tapp got you guys good with this one :laugh::thumbup:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Ronald_Reagan said:


> Not even close.
> 
> Compare the two. The data Maestro is displaying is wrong. It has inverted axises.
> 
> ...


Oh, that's common knowledge... I was looking too hard into it. lol 

It's how he keeps us from using our .mstro files on Winols


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

ok guys, i have a feeling i may get my @ss reamed for this question, but i just need to be sure. when flashing the ecm, do you have to do a "read ecu" every time before you do, or if you're already flashed just need to do the "flash ecu" without doing a read before hand.


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

Just flash ecu. Read is only used the first time when you have to send the file to tapp i believe


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Ronald_Reagan said:


> Whoever spots the problem first gets an internet high five.


Tapp skipped adding the multipliers from 4000 and up at pulses above 2ms?lol


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Ronald_Reagan said:


> Not even close.
> 
> Compare the two. The data Maestro is displaying is wrong. It has inverted axises.
> 
> ...


Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww seriously can't take the bs files from this guy anymore. Nothing will be done about this... once tax return comes in I'll be shooting Ya a pm about setting me up to flash in the spring.


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## pielout (Jul 12, 2006)

So I just finished putting the car together and ran my first log (cold start and just idle log). Now I am no expert in tuning AT ALL but this sure does not look right. The idle was bouncy as hell, my 02 was not reading, my timing adv is completely all over the place:banghead: This is my first time every doing any sort of tuning so I think this will be a long process in getting the car where it needs to be but I would of thought the basic 630 tunes would have it running better than this. I did take it for a ride around the block and it would drive "OK" and not buck or anything but never took it over 3k or 20ish mph. Could I have a bad 02 that is making it not read and bounce all over? I think I need to start doing my research on this tuning stuff...

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxuOo-eXDAYWV3YxMkhHN3BlOEE/edit


Car in question:
20th Gti/Awp/50trim/Tial Bov/630cc/Abd intake mani/mafless

Build Thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5482917-Project-MON3YP1T


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

You should clear fault codes"reset fuel trims" adapt throttle body block 060 and switch to basic then back. Then start the car and let idle for 5 mins without touching the gas pedal. Then see if you see anything on your afr gauge. Are you using the built in or external gauge?


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## pielout (Jul 12, 2006)

WiKKiDTT said:


> You should clear fault codes"reset fuel trims" adapt throttle body block 060 and switch to basic then back. Then start the car and let idle for 5 mins without touching the gas pedal. Then see if you see anything on your afr gauge. Are you using the built in or external gauge?



Ok I will try that....at the moment I am not even sure if it will stay at idle without touching the pedal I currently do not have a afr gauge(still undecided on which one to get)


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

pielout said:


> Ok I will try that....at the moment I am not even sure if it will stay at idle without touching the pedal I currently do not have a afr gauge(still undecided on which one to get)


A lot of people will have there opinion. Innovate is what I recommend.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## thiagoaa (Nov 16, 2013)

Hello, the Maestro suite support Bosch MED 17 (CCZA/B engines)?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Its on their website, but being for a TSI engine I believe they do.


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## tyfoon129 (Jul 25, 2003)

Is it normal to have 17-23 degrees of timing while under boost? Engine load is 192 and boost was at 22.3 psi. O2 correction was a little lean at +12.46. How would you increase fueling in the upper rpm's?

here is a log. Wasnt comfortable taking it to redline on this first run with the new tune. 
http://www.4shared.com/file/-uUFs7W0/2013_12_31-123559DataLog.html


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

tyfoon129 said:


> Is it normal to have 17-23 degrees of timing while under boost? Engine load is 192 and boost was at 22.3 psi. O2 correction was a little lean at +12.46. How would you increase fueling in the upper rpm's?
> 
> here is a log. Wasnt comfortable taking it to redline on this first run with the new tune.
> http://www.4shared.com/file/-uUFs7W0/2013_12_31-123559DataLog.html


First of all, dont use that **** site. Use Google Drive, its free.

If your not getting any knock, then its fine assuming the knock sensors are functioning correctly.

Also has to do with fuel type.

Can you get a just 3rd gear WOT log.


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## tyfoon129 (Jul 25, 2003)

ok thanks for the site advice haha

here is a 3rd gear log
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_xVdon65BtzWm1fMU9ySTNselE/edit?usp=sharing


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Your lambda is leaning out to 1.02 at 4700 for of boost 22+psi and timing 17 and up? how did this thing live through that pull:laugh:.

1. You have fuel delivery issues
2. You need a timing map setup for your setup because your calculated load is low(wrong).


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Budsdubbin said:


> Your lambda is leaning out to 1.02 at 4700 for of boost 22+psi and timing 17 and up? how did this thing live through that pull:laugh:.
> 
> 1. You have fuel delivery issues
> 2. You need a timing map setup for your setup because your calculated load is low(wrong).


It actually stopped regulating at the point


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## tyfoon129 (Jul 25, 2003)

Budsdubbin said:


> Your lambda is leaning out to 1.02 at 4700 for of boost 22+psi and timing 17 and up? how did this thing live through that pull:laugh:.
> 
> 1. You have fuel delivery issues
> 2. You need a timing map setup for your setup because your calculated load is low(wrong).


Ive only had this a few days now, dont really understand how to adjust things in the upper rpm ranges. Ive been trying to sort out the Idle with BVC and IC. Seem to have gotten that working ok. 

How do you find or create a timing map setup? 17 degrees is low correct? shouldnt the timing kinda mirror the boost curve, so lower timing in the low rpms and higher in the higher rpms?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

tyfoon129 said:


> Ive only had this a few days now, dont really understand how to adjust things in the upper rpm ranges. Ive been trying to sort out the Idle with BVC and IC. Seem to have gotten that working ok.
> 
> How do you find or create a timing map setup? 17 degrees is low correct? shouldnt the timing kinda mirror the boost curve, so lower timing in the low rpms and higher in the higher rpms?


Your tune doesn't matter right now your requesting 100% duty cycle. Injectors are going static regardless of what you do with the laptop. Find a timing map setup? No you'll have to create one based on your estimated load which you don't have because you are mafless. Yes boost should mirror timing in a way but yours won't with that file and your setup. Get your fueling taken care of then PM me your email so I can get a log after problem is fixed and the base file your working with. I'll give ya something that won't blow your damn motor.


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## tyfoon129 (Jul 25, 2003)

Budsdubbin said:


> Your tune doesn't matter right now your requesting 100% duty cycle. Injectors are going static regardless of what you do with the laptop. Find a timing map setup? No you'll have to create one based on your estimated load which you don't have because you are mafless. Yes boost should mirror timing in a way but yours won't with that file and your setup. Get your fueling taken care of then PM me your email so I can get a log after problem is fixed and the base file your working with. I'll give ya something that won't blow your damn motor.


This is all I got for now. Car lives in Wa. and I live in NC. Was just home for the holidays and while I was there I bought Maestro and 1000cc injectors. Couldnt get the car to start with any of the 1000cc files. None of the adjustments that Eurodyne or others recomended made a difference. So i switched back to the 630cc Injectors and file and turned down the boost. The fuel issue probably derives from the small injectors. after all this car now has a gt35r. Id be more interested in trying to get the 1000cc file to work. The 630 file is just a hold over so I can drive the car, but I figured I might atleast try and learn a bit about Maestro while I was with the car. Apparently I'm not doing to good haha.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

tyfoon129 said:


> This is all I got for now. Car lives in Wa. and I live in NC. Was just home for the holidays and while I was there I bought Maestro and 1000cc injectors. Couldnt get the car to start with any of the 1000cc files. None of the adjustments that Eurodyne or others recomended made a difference. So i switched back to the 630cc Injectors and file and turned down the boost. The fuel issue probably derives from the small injectors. after all this car now has a gt35r. Id be more interested in trying to get the 1000cc file to work. The 630 file is just a hold over so I can drive the car, but I figured I might atleast try and learn a bit about Maestro while I was with the car. Apparently I'm not doing to good haha.


Do you need a 1000cc file? I can send you a base.


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## tyfoon129 (Jul 25, 2003)

DMVDUB said:


> Do you need a 1000cc file? I can send you a base.


Man that would be awesome! Any real difference between the one already available as bases?


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## tyfoon129 (Jul 25, 2003)

Anyone have any ideas on why my car wouldn't start with any if the 1000 base tunes? All my new injectors ohmed out at 11.9-12.1 so they are good. Could it be that I am MAF-less?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

It would have to be off by a miles I suppose, but do you have the injector battery voltage compensation/offset data that should have come with the injectors?

I would also run the numbers through the injector wizard as well to double check the injector constant.

Whats your base pressure? If there is enough of a difference that could relate to your starting issues.

Do a little more searching there is some very good info out there free for the taking.


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## tyfoon129 (Jul 25, 2003)

Dave926 said:


> It would have to be off by a miles I suppose, but do you have the injector battery voltage compensation/offset data that should have come with the injectors?
> 
> I would also run the numbers through the injector wizard as well to double check the injector constant.
> 
> ...


I got the injectors off a buddy so no paperwork. But I found some good info on audizine and used a formula from Bosch provided there to find the constant. It was pretty close to what the injector wizard came up with. I guess I could email ringer racing and try to get some info from them. My base pressure is set at 3 bar.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

tyfoon129 said:


> I got the injectors off a buddy so no paperwork. But I found some good info on audizine and used a formula from Bosch provided there to find the constant. It was pretty close to what the injector wizard came up with. I guess I could email ringer racing and try to get some info from them. My base pressure is set at 3 bar.


Put up you specs and I'll put up a 1000cc base file for you.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Hey all, I've been using maestro for a year now, but I'm just now getting into really using it to its full potential. I recently gave up one getting my siemens 630s to drive and idle like a normal car, and bought a set of Genesis II 1000cc injectors. 
With my 630cc file, my car idled decently but far from perfect. My new injectors have the car idling much smoother, but I have noticed that it idles with a much higher TPS value than before. It used to hover around 1.5% and 20 engine load with occasional dips and blips. Now it likes to stay around 4% TPS and around 30 load. 

Any 1000cc users experiencing this, and is there a way to change it?


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## tyfoon129 (Jul 25, 2003)

DMVDUB said:


> Put up you specs and I'll put up a 1000cc base file for you.


* 18M AWM ecu 
* Garrett GT35R turbo
* Tial 44mm wastgate
* Tial 50mm blow off valve
* Precision Turbo 600 HP intercooler
* 1000cc Bosch ev14 injectors 
* NGK BKR7E Spark Plugs
* AEB big valve head
* Upgraded Rods (Not sure on brand) 
* Audi RS6 coil packs
* Custom 3" exhaust with cat delete
* 044 Motorsports Fuel pump kit
* Fuel Lab Fuel Pressure Reg set to 3 bar
* 034 billet fuel rail
* Maf-less setup


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

tyfoon129 said:


> * 18M AWM ecu
> * Garrett GT35R turbo
> * Tial 44mm wastgate
> * Tial 50mm blow off valve
> ...


I or someone else will get a file set up for you by the end of the day. If you want to send me your Email via PM we can discuss and I can attach files. 

I really prefer you start with a MAF, and once you're up and running then remove it. If that is Truly not an option we can work around it, but you'll see better results tuning it with a MAF and then removing it later.

What Boost are you running? Do you want to use the N75? You know for a FACT your fuel pressure is at 3bar (with vac line removed). 

I'll start putting together something for you. You do have a stock Manifold?


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

DMVDUB, he can't really use a maf because of the BOV. Well if he disconnected the vac line and didn't go into boost I suppose but thats no fun.

tyfoon, if you haven't already, check for intake/exhaust leaks, as both will make tuning both difficult and pointless. After you're sure you have a leak free system, ensure your base fuel pressure is correct. Test should be ran with the vac line off of the regulator, and prime the fuel pump several times since you can't get the car to start. 

If you can, post the injector constant and BVC curve you are running


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Poody said:


> DMVDUB, he can't really use a maf because of the BOV. Well if he disconnected the vac line and didn't go into boost I suppose but thats no fun.
> 
> tyfoon, if you haven't already, check for intake/exhaust leaks, as both will make tuning both difficult and pointless. After you're sure you have a leak free system, ensure your base fuel pressure is correct. Test should be ran with the vac line off of the regulator, and prime the fuel pump several times since you can't get the car to start.
> 
> If you can, post the injector constant and BVC curve you are running


Yes I understand the MAF and I've been talking with him. I PREFER to start with a MAF. Doesn't mean I NEED to.


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## tyfoon129 (Jul 25, 2003)

Poody said:


> DMVDUB, he can't really use a maf because of the BOV. Well if he disconnected the vac line and didn't go into boost I suppose but thats no fun.
> 
> tyfoon, if you haven't already, check for intake/exhaust leaks, as both will make tuning both difficult and pointless. After you're sure you have a leak free system, ensure your base fuel pressure is correct. Test should be ran with the vac line off of the regulator, and prime the fuel pump several times since you can't get the car to start.
> 
> If you can, post the injector constant and BVC curve you are running


I'll have it checked out for leaks. So basically pull the vac line off my regulator and see if my inline gauge stays at 43.5? Wouldn't this be evident since the car runs great on my old Unitronic 630cc tune which is set at 3bar? 

My IC for the 1000cc tune is .032718 on paper. Think maestro drops that to .0326x when it's input. Also I was using the provided BVC map on the AWP stage 3 EV14 1000cc tune. Never made any changes to it. Sorry I can't post it. I'm away from the car and my laptop....like 2200 miles away from it lol


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

tyfoon129 said:


> I'll have it checked out for leaks. So basically pull the vac line off my regulator and see if my inline gauge stays at 43.5? Wouldn't this be evident since the car runs great on my old Unitronic 630cc tune which is set at 3bar?
> 
> My IC for the 1000cc tune is .032718 on paper. Think maestro drops that to .0326x when it's input. Also I was using the provided BVC map on the AWP stage 3 EV14 1000cc tune. Never made any changes to it. Sorry I can't post it. I'm away from the car and my laptop....like 2200 miles away from it lol


I made the changed to the BVC from Injector Dynamics. The file should work now, you've got it.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Matt I hope to god you sent him the correct awm file, if needed. I *believe* one of the awm ecus can be cross flashed with an awp file, the other cannot.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Matt I hope to god you sent him the correct awm file, if needed. I *believe* one of the awm ecus can be cross flashed with an awp file, the other cannot.


Yeah I sent AWM. Very slim pickin's there.


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

Hi everyone I have a 2009 GTI W/ 2.0 TSI CBFA motor. I'm running Eurodynes stage 2 base map.

My requested boost says 10 PSI and so does my actual, but its supposed to be 18 PSI.

Any ideas?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

grasman94 said:


> Hi everyone I have a 2009 GTI W/ 2.0 TSI CBFA motor. I'm running Eurodynes stage 2 base map.
> 
> My requested boost says 10 PSI and so does my actual, but its supposed to be 18 PSI.
> 
> Any ideas?


Post the file for review


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

The Multiplicative LTFT (2nd box im MB032), besides adjusting them via Injector Constant manipulation, can I adjust by altering my adjustable FPR?
If YES, how. If NO, why?


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

rogerius said:


> The Multiplicative LTFT (2nd box im MB032), besides adjusting them via Injector Constant manipulation, can I adjust by altering my adjustable FPR?
> If YES, how. If NO, why?


If you change your pressure, your injector latency increases, so youll have to change your bvc, as well as your constant


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

can I decrease the Mult LTFT if I do not increase Injector Constant?


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

Dave926 said:


> Post the file for review


Okay no problem. What's the best way for me to post for you to look at it Dave? Do you want the log and the map? Or just the log?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Google drive.

And yes a wot log


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

Dave926 said:


> Google drive.
> 
> And yes a wot log


Here is the log > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwYavzDEM6gtRWc2TnNsbklkZGM/edit?usp=sharing

Let me know if you want the map. Thanks again.


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Interesting situation that just started occurring sporadically. Timing fueling and everything is dialed in on my car. It runs perfectly fine. After a full throttle pull it loses o2 corrections for a little bit. O2 sensor continues to read but just no corrections. I never noticed until I was looking at some logs. It Regains corrections after a few seconds. O2 corrections during a full throttle run are in the -3 - -6% range. Also my o2 sensor is about a year old. Any thoughts.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

spartiati said:


> Interesting situation that just started occurring sporadically. Timing fueling and everything is dialed in on my car. It runs perfectly fine. After a full throttle pull it loses o2 corrections for a little bit. O2 sensor continues to read but just no corrections. I never noticed until I was looking at some logs. It Regains corrections after a few seconds. O2 corrections during a full throttle run are in the -3 - -6% range. Also my o2 sensor is about a year old. Any thoughts.


What's target lambda during this limbo after a pull?


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

elRey said:


> What's target lambda during this limbo after a pull?


12.05 during the pull. 

15.39 on overun (throttle closed). I never changed this or at least don't think I did.

15.5 lean cruise and idle otherwise. 

Also this is on the 70mm g2 vvt active file.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

grasman94 said:


> Here is the log > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwYavzDEM6gtRWc2TnNsbklkZGM/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> Let me know if you want the map. Thanks again.


Few things I dont see as correct:

Fuel correction is pretty high, at +10%
Intake air temp is pretty low, are you using meth or live in the Arctic circle?
Airflow is pretty high for a given boost pressure, does your boost gauge jive with the logs?
Engine Load Specified seems pretty low, this is what most likely capping the boost out. Boost duty is low too

Post the map, or PM it to me if you want.


----------



## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

Dave926 said:


> Few things I dont see as correct:
> 
> Fuel correction is pretty high, at +10%
> Intake air temp is pretty low, are you using meth or live in the Arctic circle?
> ...


PM'd


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Question,

What is TRUE Maximum Timing Advance possible? 

This is a theoretical question. If you didn't encounter knock how far can you go? Also, Power isn't in the question either it's as simple as it sounds.

If I think about timing in terms of top dead center I know it's in degrees. Since the camshaft / crankshaft is a rotating assembly there could be 360deg, but that 360 seems like it would be 180BTC / 180ATC. 

Does the ignition timing represent a true number? 
(2 part)
Is the ignition actually firing (example) 20BTC in relation to the Crank trigger? 

When advancing timing, and the piston is reaching TDC in the cycle if/when the ignition is triggered before top dead center does this cause higher cylinder pressure? (Could having optimal timing actually increase compression ratio through the force of combustion and the piston's retained energy fighting one another?

What effect does timing have on intake/exhaust velocity?

Lastly,

When looking at timing the map isn't a (completely) smooth transition. Could you retune the timing by setting the entire map at a given number and raise timing, log, adjust, raise, log, adjust. Then when knock appears on other parts of the map only continue to raise the rest until knock arises again? Is there any advantage to having linear timing?


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

In general 
40 deg of timing can be had N/A. when IAT's are high, boost pressure increase, Octane ping, Timing is pulled.
An example of a liner timing curve is Idle -8 pulling to -32 to red line. modifier for boost pulling it back to 
-15 deg range.

Does the ignition timing represent a true number?Yes 
When the Coil Fires the Plug in relation to the Crank Rotation. Example Idle -8 deg Before Top Dead Center 
(2 part)
Is the ignition actually firing (example) 20BTC in relation to the Crank trigger? NO 
it is firing 20 deg BTDC in relation to the CRANK. #1 cyl TDC 

When advancing timing, and the piston is reaching TDC in the cycle if/when the ignition is triggered before top dead center does this cause higher cylinder pressure? Yes. the future you go the more pressure you create. to far and you push against it self. BAD
(Could having optimal timing actually increase compression ratio through the force of combustion and the piston's retained energy fighting one another? Yes, relative Compression NOT Static Compression.



When I install the Maestro 7 That is what I am going to do.
Give it a base map tune then set the pull timing for Det detection to pull 2 deg. 
then check the logs as I inch up the timing watching temps until I see Knock.
then go to the dyno and prove it is correct. The magic number is full ignition 
by 14 deg ATDC. This is a rule of thumb but remember all engines are different. 
just because it's a rule of thumb your motor might run better full burn at 12 deg ATDC.
To achieve this as the RPMs increase you adjust the ignition.
With this software you can find the magic number easily. 
just watch the numbers and Data log, Data Log, Data Log.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> Question,
> 
> What is TRUE Maximum Timing Advance possible?
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

_What is TRUE Maximum Timing Advance possible?

This is a theoretical question. If you didn't encounter knock how far can you go? Also, Power isn't in the question either it's as simple as it sounds.

Optimum timing map is maximum timing at Lambda 1, with no knock, good luck reaching it_

*Actually optimum timing is timing for mean best torque, and can be achieved via tuning on a load holding dyno.*


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## tyfoon129 (Jul 25, 2003)

What's the best place to make adjustments for startup? Car won't start up cold with my 1000cc tune unless I feather the throttle and then I have to hold the car at about 1200-1500 rpms till warm. If I let off the throttle it starts idling horribly at about 900roms then begins hunting and surging. Drops down to 500 rpms a few times then dies.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

No reason you cannot get 1000s to idle.

Set main fuel correction and injector correction to 1.0001, and tune the injector constant and bvc.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> No reason you cannot get 1000s to idle.
> 
> *Set main fuel correction and injector correction to 1.0001, and tune the injector constant and bvc.*
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


What he said here ^^^^

I've got several cars running 1000's they are actually pretty favorable to work with. When it comes to getting a car to idle I've found it's the "drilled out" injector sizes 910's for example. Getting the appropriate BVC makes a world of difference. 


I said this in another thread and I'll say it here (this goes for everyone using maestro),

DO NOT just use the histogram without looking over the logs themselves. If you have a mechanical issue that is starting to who it's face you will see it in the logs, otherwise it will just have the histogram chasing fuel, timing, MAF correction, whatever...


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

And when your tuning the fuel, make sure the n80 is unplugged.

You have no idea how much trims can really screw with things

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


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## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

Well - here goes my first try this weekend.

1. I choose the AWP_G2VVT_Stage3_EV14550c_FrankenTurboF21_VR6MafHousing file (an FT21, ceramic manifold, and aluminum MAF housing)
2. I went into the Injector wizard and clicked on the stock AWP 316cc button (using recently cleaned stock injectors)
3. I adjusted the Injector constant going from 3 bar (stock) to 5 bar FPR (with an 044 pump) to get 0.079920
4. Wrote out file

So next I plan to:

5. swap in the stock ECU
6. Hook up the battery charger, and laptop power cord (just in case)
7. open the flash program, making sure to disable the immobilizer
8. wait...
9. Do the ignition off on sequence and...
10. Drive my new "beta" ecu mobile. ;-)

Should be much better to start with than the APR stage 2+ with the FT21 anyhow...

Bryan


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

tyfoon129 said:


> What's the best place to make adjustments for startup? Car won't start up cold with my 1000cc tune unless I feather the throttle and then I have to hold the car at about 1200-1500 rpms till warm. If I let off the throttle it starts idling horribly at about 900roms then begins hunting and surging. Drops down to 500 rpms a few times then dies.


Instead of setting IC to 1.0001 look up the stock values in the stage 1 files (at least they should be close to stock) save it as a .bin and load it too your current base file. I've had to look them up myself in OLS. Disabling LT and ST fuel trims will help guide you in the right direction.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

hallkbrd said:


> Well - here goes my first try this weekend.
> 
> 1. I choose the AWP_G2VVT_Stage3_EV14550c_FrankenTurboF21_VR6MafHousing file (an FT21, ceramic manifold, and aluminum MAF housing)
> 2. I went into the Injector wizard and clicked on the stock AWP 316cc button (using recently cleaned stock injectors)
> ...


I don't really do anything with that, but that seems way too easy. If you can just put a new ECU in and click immo defeat you could make a bunch of money defeating ECU's. I have a feeling when you put the new ECU in you'll need to buy "credits" for it since it vin matches.


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## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

DMVDUB said:


> I don't really do anything with that, but that seems way too easy. If you can just put a new ECU in and click immo defeat you could make a bunch of money defeating ECU's. I have a feeling when you put the new ECU in you'll need to buy "credits" for it since it vin matches.


Why? That "new" ECU is the only one this maestro software has scanned or connected to - and according to support the cable already has 4 credits loaded. Many people have ecu's that have that defeat in place for that reason, why else would you actually do that? It just needs the immo defeat since the cluster and ecu don't match - or at least that is my understanding from many forum posts.

Anyhow, I actually emailed them the initial scan, thinking you still needed to send them that for Eurodyne to send back the new image with keys - but they don't do it that way anymore:

Your cable is loaded with 4 credits that will allow you license your ecu using one of the AWP base files available in Maestro.

Instructions on the process available here;

http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1120

... which says "You may get a message asking if you want to bypass the immobilser. This is for ME7 only, and is only neccesary if you are using *an ecu from another vehicle, and the immobiliser is active*." - so that sounds right.

Bryan


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

hallkbrd said:


> Why? That "new" ECU is the only one this maestro software has scanned or connected to - and according to support the cable already has 4 credits loaded. Many people have ecu's that have that defeat in place for that reason, why else would you actually do that? It just needs the immo defeat since the cluster and ecu don't match - or at least that is my understanding from many forum posts.
> 
> Anyhow, I actually emailed them the initial scan, thinking you still needed to send them that for Eurodyne to send back the new image with keys - but they don't do it that way anymore:
> 
> ...


I thought you said you were loading Maestro on one ecu and then IMMO defeating another one. Thinking you could IMMO defeat the other one for free. I guess you misunderstood me.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

How much do credits cost?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I believe $500 for 4 credits

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## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

Well - everything pretty much worked as advertised! And on windows 8.1 to boot.  Deep dive on ME7 in progress.

After flashing, and a hard first start (need to adjust "cold start" values) I took it out to do some easy runs, first at 5 PSIG, and then a planned 10 keeping a keen eye on the AFR. However, the second run seemed to hit a wall at 7 (partial throttle of course) - and I didn't push it in case it was seeing a lot of timing pull or something I could not see while driving (as I was just watching a stand-alone AFR meter and the boost level).

Looking at the logs, what I think might be doing this is the lamda value. It was a little low, dipping at one instant to 0.91. Not horrible, but not quite what I expect with closed loop. Possibly that 5 Bar FPR isn't quite as advertised, or it does not mix as well as was suggested to me with the stock injectors. Hmmm. Possibly causing the knock detected - also could be holding it back, more likely.

Other suggestions with the 7PSI issue - might this be the FT21 actuator item discussed here - as actual versus requested didn't track particularly well, with actual leading quite a bit?

5PSI: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6mIbz4pHMpjZjJzUjFFTS03NWc/edit?usp=sharing
7PSI: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6mIbz4pHMpjWHl1Mk5oSTJSZW8/edit?usp=sharing
Ref: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6mIbz4pHMpjOGxEeExOWTNJRkE/edit?usp=sharing

Mod list:
AWP engine
3" TIP, FT21 with ceramic header, 3" DP
Stock injectors with 5 bar FPR run off lift pump + 044 pump
Copper plugs, newer "stock" COPs
N75 with modified evo metal DV
Top-mount 944 Intercooler, stock MAP sensor
No evap, combi, n249, sai nonsense
91 octane fuel (usually 10% e)

Thanks in advance,

Bryan


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## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

Loving this software - does more than I realized.

*Max Throttle with Brake Applied - YES! No more need for my brake bypass switch for left foot braking. Oh happy day. :laugh: 

And almost all of the nanny CELs are gone. Just wish I could disable the airbag ones, since the only one in the car is sitting in the seat. *


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Few things first, and something I would love for everyone to get in the practice of.

Post your mod list and file.

From what I can see, your charging system is not working. You never really get past ~12.5v, so something isnt right.

Fix that first, then lets go from there.:thumbup:


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

Hey Dave and DMVDUB, it ended up being a faulty stage 2 file. 👍 Just thought I'd let you know.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

grasman94 said:


> Hey Dave and DMVDUB, it ended up being a faulty stage 2 file.  Just thought I'd let you know.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


Glad to hear you figured it out eace:


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## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

Hmmm, you are right. Odd since I just put in a new alt a couple weeks ago to replace the original one. I'll check that with the VOM in the morning to verify.

I updated the post with more info - probably forgot something, but its late.

I did just notice - no cruise control!  I hope I missed a box someplace, a 2500 lb car with close to 300 hp without cc = tickets

Hard start went away - starts great now.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

hallkbrd said:


> Hmmm, you are right. Odd since I just put in a new alt a couple weeks ago to replace the original one. I'll check that with the VOM in the morning to verify.
> 
> I updated the post with more info - probably forgot something, but its late.
> 
> ...


There's something goofy about Maestro (one of the many) where it will remove Cruise Control somehow every once in a while, then after a few revisions of the SAME file it will come back. If you don't use it much you wouldn't notice, but I noticed it real quick and I still have no idea what causes it. I do know if I just rename the file it will fix it sometimes which make absolutely ZERO sense :screwy:


On to another subject that I'm wondering about, 

When it comes to the torque / target filling maps I have my own "solution" to this but I keep wondering about these numbers. They are a "target" meaning it is going to try and reach that target even if it can't (for example you set the target filling map to 300 and your load tops out at 250 ((theoretical numbers)). I don't really see any way of using the histogram feature on this as it would make the map way out of whack and screw you right out of part throttle. 

So, what it comes down to is after you've reached the limit to where you want the file set, let's just say that a load value of 200 is specified and it maxes out at 175 for actual load. 

You go to your VE Boost "line" map (whatever you want to call it) and bring those numbers down to 180 where you want maximum power.

and 

You set the target filling to max out at 180 as well since the load maxes out at 175 it gives a little extra buffer

Remember the numbers I put up are THEORETICAL I chose easy rounded numbers. 

Wouldn't bringing the Specified load as CLOSE as possible to the maximum actual load give a more accurate reading? 

-Side Note-

The reason I bring this up is because of the ever popular (and stupid) way of attaining over 22psi from the N75 is by tricking it with the VE Boost / Specified Load. BUT when you do this your logs become really out of sync. There's a much better way of adjusting to gain ANY boost you want (that your WG is capable of) over 22psi reliably. Part of it IS by using the VE line but a bigger part is the duty cycle and matching them together for the result you want. 

I'm not sure if any of this made sense, but I'm seeing all of these files that go from essentially minimum load to requesting full load and the actual is so far apart (especially f you graph it). It's just like when I tune a car to use the N75. I will overshoot the load on the VE Boost line / map just to see what the spool looks like on the specific setup. Once I have that then I bring those numbers down so that of you look at a graph of requested versus actual they mirror each other (to an extent). Obviously this changes depending on what gear / rpm / TPS etc. but you get the idea. 

It just seems like pushing the Requests on boost or load / boost and load to the max may give you the performance you want but it seems like a half assed way of doing it. When I refine a file closer to the actual things start falling in place. 

If anyone understood the point of my rant I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, because you've either done this yourself, or you've seen it done. It's real easy to set everything to max out then dial in the fuel and call it quits but that seems like a pathetic way of making a complete file. eace:


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

So basically you log to find out what load values you have during certain conditions. Then you simply (in a nut shell) tune the VE line/map to the Target filling maps, while adjusting the Target/torque map accordingly...?

The closer you match to the VE line the smoother everything should run. eventually making more power?

Seems logical as the ECU is working less, which I believe I read at some point that this can generate more power.

I really havent played much with the software, but between this and tuning the N75 im all earsopcorn:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Matt have you tuned a car yet using an external wg, with a high rated spring?

It seems like a good way of going about tuning, but after 22 psi it's a moot point.

Elrey has a nice thread on calculating pid tuning on nefmoto, can someone link it here?

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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Matt have you tuned a car yet using an external wg, with a high rated spring?
> 
> It seems like a good way of going about tuning, but after 22 psi it's a moot point.
> 
> ...


Yes I have but not on N75. I am working on one that will use the N75 but we aren't going forward until it gets warmer.

That's not true (what I said), I have tuned one on the N75 but we still went back to EBC in car because he wanted to use it.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=517.0

Thread on pid tuning.

If I ever get my 3071 on before I die I will for sure be using the N75 for control. 

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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Anybody have tips for getting a smooth idle on Gen II 1000cc injectors? I have been working at it all month, and I just cant seem to get my idle to even out. 
I am using a TT225 Intake manifold, V8 maf, 3.4 bar FPR (measured) and stock displacement.

Here's my process:
Leave IC and BVC at the calculated values
Set MAF correction, Injection Correction, and Main Fuel to 1.0001
Unplug N80
Tune Alpha N/Throttle vs Airflow using histogram

Thus far I have achieved within 1% +/- O2 corrections in most areas of my alpha n map, with some reaching a high of 5%

With my N80 plugged back in, my fuel trims looked good, -0.8% for BVC, and -3.9% for injector constant

Here's what my idle looks like in Maestro log:
RPM @1000ish
Load stays between 18-24, looks like its trying to hold at 20%
MAF is reading ~16kg/hr
TPS varies, usually around 2.34%, but drops to 1.95 and then blips up to 3.5 or 4%
Timing at idle is unstable, hovering around 6, but jumping up to 20 and dropping to 0 frequently
O2 corrections stay around 5%, sometimes they are positive, other times they are negative. They dont jump between positive and negative while idling, but the correction trend tends to change every once in a while.

On one occasion, I had the car idling PERFECTLY for about 5 minutes. TPS stayed right at 1.95, timing was sticking almost solid at 18*, and O2 corrections were +4%, but then I drove the car 2 miles home and it went back to what I described above.

I'm not sure what maps I can tweak to fix or remedy this, and its driving me crazy, please help!!
:banghead:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I'm on this site as well. Nefmoto users tend to be a little less kind to Maestro users.

That being said, if you have a stock throttle body with a stock intake manifold your doing more than you need to.

Leave the maf correction map alone, leave alpha n alone and throttle angle vs airflow alone. If anything, import/export the alpha n and throttle angle vs airflow maps from the tt225 file (I think AMU code). Doubt there is a difference vs the AWP files, but you can never be too careful.

3.9% isn't that good, I'll be honest. When it's under 1.0%, then start adjusting things.

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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

I started adjusting Alpha N map (from the AMU base file) after reading numerous posts over on NefMoto about its importance in determining load/airflow out of full throttle situations, even in a MAF based setup. Doing so has reduced my O2 corrections during cruise from 10% down to 1-2% as stated. So far this is the most accurate way I have been able to adjust my fueling. Injection correction is good if corrections are within a few percent, but when half of the fuel correction map, whether it be IC or main fuel, is bright blue/red, something else is off, which was the case in my tune before I looked into adjusting Alpha N. Also, most people who seem to know their stuff recommend not straying from calculated injector constant and BVC values. Those numbers are derived through fluid dynamics and shouldn't have to be adjusted to get fueling "right".

As for my trims, I periodically check my them to see how my tune is falling into place. Maybe my injector constant is 4% off, perhaps I calculated it wrong, but I don't really see that being the case for the problems I'm having. 

My thought process is, if my fuel is only correcting 1% under 90% of driving conditions, then I'm doing something right. 

I just went out and logged my car idling for 5 minutes, and load has increased back into the 30% range, which I'm assuming is (at least in part) where my problem lies. Can somebody point me in the right direction towards lowering that to an acceptable number?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Poody said:


> I started adjusting Alpha N map (from the AMU base file) after reading numerous posts over on NefMoto about its importance in determining load/airflow out of full throttle situations, even in a MAF based setup. Doing so has reduced my O2 corrections during cruise from 10% down to 1-2% as stated. So far this is the most accurate way I have been able to adjust my fueling. Injection correction is good if corrections are within a few percent, but when half of the fuel correction map, whether it be IC or main fuel, is bright blue/red, something else is off, which was the case in my tune before I looked into adjusting Alpha N. Also, most people who seem to know their stuff recommend not straying from calculated injector constant and BVC values. Those numbers are derived through fluid dynamics and shouldn't have to be adjusted to get fueling "right".
> 
> *Read the description in Maestro. You only need to change those maps, if youve changed the hardware.
> Change the injector constant, not BVC. Alpha N is primarily used during MAFless mode. *
> ...


Load should ideally be closer to 20%, but thats dependent on a lot of things.

Try what I suggested and report back.

Or if you wish, ill send you a file to try but it wont be any different than what I suggested.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Will do. I'll report back here with any news


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

So I adjusted my IC twice, first -3.9%, then +2.3%
I reverted back to the base values of both Alpha N, Throttle vs Airflow, and Maf Correction for those adjustments. As it sits now, the car has 0.0% in both fuel trim cells after a 30 minute drive. 
Idle load has decreased to 22%, down from 30%. 
Idle still hasn't stabilized. Timing jumps all over the place, TPS jumps between 2.34 and 3.13% about twice a second, and O2 corrections hover @ +/-1%


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

What other mods on the car? Cams?

Post a short idle log on google drive if you wish.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

No cams or anything of that nature. I'll get a log posted shortly.

Edit:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9fej8UQof0ic0R1UENnRUN3a3M/edit?usp=sharing

There's a link to an idle log. I'm not sure if it even looks bad, but I assure you, I could almost get my 630s to idle better..
I know my 630s liked to idle at around 1.5% TPS, I've never seen TPS drop below 1.95 on this setup, and that has only ever happened the one time it was idling well


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

AlphaN needs some love with fuel trims disabled. Make the changes in alpha N be reflected in airflow vrs throttle plate and it should get better. Also try setting timing to around 20* at idle loads so your not jumping around when your theoretical load is changing which I would do before fuel corrections. Should help bring things together (in some cases I've had to change the Optimal timing tables so they wouldn't steer the idle timing off target), once you do that idle should start to fall in line or you've got some terribly mismatched injectors. After your done dialing in the table then try to revert back to stock timing. 

Either way you should be targeting around 20* at idle. But from the looks of it its possible your BVC is off or you have a set of mismatched injectors assuming your working with siemens.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I'm going to respectfully disagree with buds.

No need to adds more variables to the mix by adjusting something that is fine from the factory.

No need to mess with the timing map at idle, that's what idle torque is for.

Poody,

Why is your idle nearly 1000rpm? Lower it to 800 to 850.

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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> I'm going to respectfully disagree with buds.
> 
> No need to adds more variables to the mix by adjusting something that is fine from the factory.
> 
> ...


I'm going to take a guess that he raised it to get vibration from mounts, just realized he said no cams. 

Dave is right about not changing too many variables. I personally will change several on a "base" file, but that's because I have done those changes several times before and I know what they'll do. 

I don't suggest anyone do multiple maps at once. You'll find that things you don't think are related will cause corrections all over the place. 

Another thing that you can think about later is learning the Tq maps. Once I found out what the numbers stood for it was pretty easy and makes a big difference. Later though. eace:


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

I raised idle RPM to try to ease the vibrations from mounts, and reduce flywheel chatter. I did try a file with RPM set to 900, but with identical maps everywhere else, load increased to 35. I can try further reducing idle but I'm not sure how well it will work. 

Budsdubbin, I'm working with Genesis II 1000cc injectors, which are supposed to be flow matched. I had my part throttle fueling perfect, but I can't get my idle right, and I read on some forum that the process should go WOT, idle, then part throttle for fueling so I'm trying to fix this stupid surge/hunt or whatever you want to call it before I dial part throttle in again.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Your changing too much stuff.

Pull up a stage 1 file, change the injector constant and bvc values to what they need to be, change the MAF profile and flash.

I guarantee you will have a well running setup. If not, then you have a hardware issue.

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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Raising idle RPM by 100 is changing too much? I have the Stage 3 1000cc file with stock Alpha N and Throttle vs Airflow, which has idle set to 900. I undid the changes I made to Alpha N and TB/Airflow and adjusted IC instead. Thats where I'm at now. I have made small tweaks to the timing map and other maps here and there, but if it doesnt help, I immediately change it back. 
As for hardware, my MAP, MAF, IAT seem to be recording the right values, front O2 and Cam hall sender are new, I have seafoamed to check for exhaust leaks, and boost/vac tested up to 40 psi. I'm getting 20-22inhg vacuum at idle. What kind of hardware problems should I be looking for?

EDIT:
So I tried the Stage 1 file with the 750rpm idle. Car is shaking, flywheel is chattering like a squirrel on crack, and engine load is still in the 30% range. All I did was edit BVC, IC, and MAF profile to match my setup. Otherwise this was on a complete AWP stage 1 base. I still think something is off with my engine load

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9fej8UQof0iMUdUenVsd0I5ZkU/edit?usp=sharing


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## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

Dave926 said:


> From what I can see, your charging system is not working. You never really get past ~12.5v, so something isnt right.
> 
> Fix that first, then lets go from there.:thumbup:


Fixed. Turns out the new rebuilt alt was already failing, possibly due to bad conduction where the starter lead goes into the battery fuse block (battery lead attaches there as well). That's all fixed now and voltage shows more normal 13-13.6v ranges. :thumbup: 

What I am seeing now are generally good AFR values, with a minimum of 13.9 under this load.

Before I go further toward full WOT runs however, I am seeing quite a bit of knock on the #2 cyl and #3 cyl at the higher rpms, both showing -6 at about 5500. Before Maestro, I tuned the APR program with advance as far as it would go before knocking. So here I am inclined to back off advance before pushing it harder. But maybe I should be looking at something else first, now having more knobs to tweak (so to speak).

This is a "5" PSIG target run. Actually it suddenly surged on my gauge near the top of the RPM ranges from about 5 where I was trying to hold it, to around 7-8. It looks like the TPS shows a sudden full open, even though I was not doing that with the throttle pedal (wish that was also logged).

Feedback welcome: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6mIbz4pHMpjSGQydnpUZUw4TTg/edit?usp=sharing

Bryan


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Poody said:


> I raised idle RPM to try to ease the vibrations from mounts, and reduce flywheel chatter. I did try a file with RPM set to 900, but with identical maps everywhere else, load increased to 35. I can try further reducing idle but I'm not sure how well it will work.
> 
> Budsdubbin, I'm working with Genesis II 1000cc injectors, which are supposed to be flow matched. I had my part throttle fueling perfect, but I can't get my idle right, and I read on some forum that the process should go WOT, idle, then part throttle for fueling so I'm trying to fix this stupid surge/hunt or whatever you want to call it before I dial part throttle in again.


Take the injection correction and main fuel maps from the stage 1 file and import them over to your current file. Not sure if playing with your idle torque map will help its mainly there for keeping your engine from stalling when you have additional loads(such as the a/c compressor). You can usually leave them stock in most cases, lightweight pully's, aluminum flywheel may through it off. I've messed around with it and nothing good came of changing the values in the map but I have had to adjust the load axis before. I've Italian tuned the IC before but make sure the LTFT, STFT are disabled. There is no reason why you cannot set idle timing to 18-20* you'll have no ill effects. I don't see the issue some have with that specially when the throttle plate is opening and closing you'll have a change in load and if you take a look that the timing map it will bounce from 14 to even 30*! It just makes things easier flattening it at idle.

Stick to your theoretical injector constant and BVC. In the case of stock throttle and intake manifolds you could leave alphaN alone and its inverse alone, use injection correction for the changes but if your hitting 20+% corrections then I would dial in alpha N.

Keep in mind your idle injector on time should be close to .55ms so you know where you should be. Take your BVC (injector lag time) at whatever voltage your idling at which is around .9ms?(its been a while) and subtract that from your overall pulsewidth which will give you your injector on-time.


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## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

Poody said:


> Raising idle RPM by 100 is changing too much?


It looks like you idle at about 750, vs the 800-900 where I normally have set idle, I would definitely expect it to be rather harsh there. Each engine mount setup will have a sweet spot where it is smoothest (least harsh harmonics).


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Poody said:


> Raising idle RPM by 100 is changing too much? I have the Stage 3 1000cc file with stock Alpha N and Throttle vs Airflow, which has idle set to 900. I undid the changes I made to Alpha N and TB/Airflow and adjusted IC instead. Thats where I'm at now. I have made small tweaks to the timing map and other maps here and there, but if it doesnt help, I immediately change it back.
> As for hardware, my MAP, MAF, IAT seem to be recording the right values, front O2 and Cam hall sender are new, I have seafoamed to check for exhaust leaks, and boost/vac tested up to 40 psi. I'm getting 20-22inhg vacuum at idle. What kind of hardware problems should I be looking for?
> 
> EDIT:
> ...


Regardless of what file you use, Alpha N and Throttle vs Airflow must use stock values.

Quick and dirty way to check IAT and CLT values is on a cold engine that has not run in several hours, they should be the same or within a few degrees. Map should read at ~1000millibar, but will vary a little.

What I forgot to ask is if your using the stock airbox, if not adjust Flowmeter correction instead of injection correction or main fuel correction.

Block 90 or something like that will show timing correction based on the difference of TDC from the cam and crank sensors, and make sure cam timing fault diagnosis isnt shut off in Maestro.



hallkbrd said:


> Fixed. Turns out the new rebuilt alt was already failing, possibly due to bad conduction where the starter lead goes into the battery fuse block (battery lead attaches there as well). That's all fixed now and voltage shows more normal 13-13.6v ranges. :thumbup:
> 
> What I am seeing now are generally good AFR values, with a minimum of 13.9 under this load.
> 
> ...


Its not knock, its timing pull. Get that part straight LOL. The ecu is pulling timing because it thinks there is a chance it might detonate.

What your seeing for timing pull is a little much, maybe pull a few degrees out. Just graph it using the link in my signature, and do it RPM vs Load vs Timing Pull so that you adjust the correct columns.

As far as the throttle not opening enough, you need to increase the target filling map where it traces. Boost actual is exceeding Boost requested, and that would be the first thing that I would check to see if that fixes it.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I thought poody was mafless, in the case of maf based files you can either make the changes in flowmeter correction or rescale your maf all together as Dave suggested.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Anyone have issues with a mafless 80mm file running super lean on cold start? I'm talking like 20:1 until the car warms up. I tried adjusting warmup fuel correction maps with not much luck.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Post your file and let me take a look at it. Ill see of there is anything I can help with


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> Post your file and let me take a look at it. Ill see of there is anything I can help with


A log or the actual file?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

File at least. Log wouldnt hurt, but I am more interested in the file.

I know you run a 35r, gen2 2000s, 80mm with an SEM and on E85

What else?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Base 80mm airflow tables are essentially the same as the 70mm file. I had posted some base 80mm airflow tables a while back for user to use as a base.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

You have to be careful with that, Tapp changed the TPS axis on the 80mm files.

I prefer to make adjustments to the Alpha N maps based on 02 corrections anyways, seems to work well.


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## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

Dave926 said:


> Its not knock, its timing pull. Get that part straight LOL. The ecu is pulling timing because it thinks there is a chance it might detonate.
> 
> What your seeing for timing pull is a little much, maybe pull a few degrees out. Just graph it using the link in my signature, and do it RPM vs Load vs Timing Pull so that you adjust the correct columns.
> 
> As far as the throttle not opening enough, you need to increase the target filling map where it traces. Boost actual is exceeding Boost requested, and that would be the first thing that I would check to see if that fixes it.


Good points - thanks.

I trimmed the log to just 3rd gear to use the ECU plot program, and noticed that to get it to work I needed to delete the header row. Then I could easily see what ranges the timing was off (good). That has been adjusted some for the next flash/log attempt.

Going into maestro, I can also load the log and verify the blocks. Of course they all come up 0's for the target filling. Since the boost is higher than requested I would gather the cylinder is getting much more air in it than desired (I thought this table was supposed to match the numbers for the turbo). Anyhow, to change that, I need to (I think) raise those target filling values somewhat, as well as smooth in the ones around them. The question is, by how much. Do I just take the delta of the request vs actual so that request matches actual? That would seem reasonable, but maybe half-way would actually be more correct? So - any input here is welcome, as I am not finding a lot of suggestions against this table.

Thanks in advance.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> File at least. Log wouldnt hurt, but I am more interested in the file.
> 
> I know you run a 35r, gen2 2000s, 80mm with an SEM and on E85
> 
> What else?


Switched back to gasoline for now. Car was apart for awhile because the clutch was slipping. New clutch is back in and I was trying to dial in the tune on gasoline.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

hallkbrd said:


> Good points - thanks.
> 
> I trimmed the log to just 3rd gear to use the ECU plot program, and noticed that to get it to work I needed to delete the header row. Then I could easily see what ranges the timing was off (good). That has been adjusted some for the next flash/log attempt.
> 
> ...


Kind of difficult to describe what I am saying,

In the columns that traced, raise them to a little over what was logged. 

Take another log, see what happens



formerly silveratljetta said:


> Switched back to gasoline for now. Car was apart for awhile because the clutch was slipping. New clutch is back in and I was trying to dial in the tune on gasoline.


On a Mafless setup I would recommend setting Main Fuel Correction and Injection Correction to 1.0001. Adjust Alpha N (Dont forget Throttle Angle vs Airflow axis changes) using 02 corrections.

Then adjust Main Fuel Correction/Injection Correction

Warm up stuff should be the last thing you change, as they just conditioners/modifiers of your main tables.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> Kind of difficult to describe what I am saying,
> 
> In the columns that traced, raise them to a little over what was logged.
> 
> ...


Could you please explain in a little more detail how to convert the changes to alpha N on to the throttle angle vs airflow table?

Or can I just trace both maps and make adjustments using the histogram?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

If your lean in an area of the alpha n, then clearly you have a low presumed flow of air in a particular cell. So your instinct is to increase the value in that cell. 

Moving to the inverse airflow vrs throttle position map. You'll see an axis for kg/hr and the cells are throttle positions so if your lean then that must mean you have too much of a throttle angle for the presumed airflow. Make sure to correct the axis after you change alpha n.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Could you please explain in a little more detail how to convert the changes to alpha N on to the throttle angle vs airflow table?
> 
> Or can I just trace both maps and make adjustments using the histogram?



More or less what Buds said.

Set the maps the way I suggested.

Flash and log

Load log file

On the Alpha N map, change trace parameter to '02 correction'

Set histogram to 'Average'

The values it gives are average 02 correction, and thus you cannot apply the values directly to the map.

Instead you have to do it manually, figure one point in correction, one point in change on that map. If its rich, adjust the values down, and vice versa if its lean.

This map is pre boost.

Think of it as making course adjustments in the fueling on a MAFles setup, and using Main fuel correction or injection correction to fine tune it.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> More or less what Buds said.
> 
> Set the maps the way I suggested.
> 
> ...


Here is a link to the maestro file that I flashed this morning.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1ngou0oa15gu1m/2000cc80mmGas.mstro


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Has anyone installed maestro on a tablet like microsoft surface or similar with a proper USB port? What are the system requirements? My laptop is almost 5 years old giving me some problems lately :banghead:


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

Have a quick question..

If actual boost is higher than maximum VE, would that cause a fuel cut of some sort? 

Reason is,

my actual boost is higher than my Max VE around 3-5K RPM's. 

When I shift under full load, in the next gear I get a massive type of fuel cut, to the point where it feels like the car shuts off. And boost goes to like 3PSI, until I come off the gas and go WOT again.

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I can see thats more or less a base file from tapp.

Are you using vvt?

I would suggest setting the injection correction map to 1.0001 as well. If you arent using VVT, then use one of the regular files, as there is a known bug in the injection correction map

Adjust the alpha n like I suggested earlier, calibrate the throttle angle vs airflow and then go from there.

There are other changes I would make as well to the file, but to get driveability down thats a good start.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> I can see thats more or less a base file from tapp.
> 
> Are you using vvt?
> 
> ...


No VVT in my setup.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Then I would suggest you use one of the non VVT stage 3 files, the 630cc one is fine.

Import over the injector stuff, Alpha N and throttle angle vs airflow from the 80mm file

Then go about tuning like I recommended.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Okay, so reducing the idle to around 750 has made my issue less audible, but looking at a data log, the throttle and timing at idle are both still very unstable. Timing seems to sit right around 6*, sometimes dropping to -3. I logged block 90, and got a timing correction of between -1 and -2. Rosstech states that plus to minus 6 is within spec. I haven't touched my idle torque maps at all, but could they be causing the problem? If so, I would want to decrease the idle torque reserve, which would decrease the timing retard to a more acceptable level. Correct?

Edit: Changing idle torque hasn't seemed to help. I'm still trying to find a way to smooth my idle. I have also encountered another problem, where I cant get into boost after a hard shift. I built this car as a daily/drag car, which makes this a really annoying issue. Basically I can make full boost in any gear, but after I run that gear out and shift into the next gear, my throttle only opens to 30%. This also happens if I am part throttle up to about 5000rpm and then go WOT. Any ideas for that? Once again, I'm essentially working with a stock stage 3 file. Only edits at this point are injector constant and all timing map RPM axis


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Try making corrections to the MAF correction map, as I believe you mentioned not running a stock intake. See how your idle is in MAFLESS mode.

The pause in power between shifts is most likely because you traction control is on. I've heard rumors that a poorly calibrated target filling/optimum torque map causes excessive power interruption.

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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Yeah I've been making corrections in the MAF Correction map similar to how I would normally edit injection correction or main fuel. Make huge logs, cover as many cells for my intended map, and histogram. Take out any data that doesn't "fit" and smooth untouched cells to mesh with the map, making the map more "hilly countryside" than "spike pit of death" shaped :laugh:

As for the "pause", its not really a pause so much as I can't open the throttle more than 30%. Traction control is most definitely off, and it usually only occurs after an "on boost" shift. It almost feels like fuel cut due to injector duty cycle going over 100%, but I'm getting -5% fuel correction and duty cycle on a full boost run only hits 50%

I suppose it could be one of the torque maps. I'll just need to figure out how to tweak them to address this issue.

I'll check mafless idle after I finish making edits from my latest log


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## garytightpants (Jun 14, 2010)

I'm plannig on running maestro on an AEB A4, and i know that the functions for ME5 ecus is limited, I was wondering if you are still able to adjust the dwell tables in ME5 ecus?


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## edigi (May 31, 2003)

ignition dwell is not included in the normal aeb/me5 map pack.
Maybe Chris can add it? No clue if thats even possible.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Poody, post a log of a 3-4 full throttle run.

Your thought process is good, and its probably something simple.

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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Sorry Dave, is that a log of a 75% (3/4) throttle run, or a log of 3-4 full throttle runs? 
I have a log that shows this problem occurring post shift if that's what you're after. Either way, I can post what you need when I get off of work


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## garytightpants (Jun 14, 2010)

edigi said:


> ignition dwell is not included in the normal aeb/me5 map pack.
> Maybe Chris can add it? No clue if thats even possible.


Well, from what I've been reading after I posted that, its not possible, atleast with the 3-wire coils, and I plan on staying 3-wire.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Should've been specific.

Full throttle, all the way through third gear, fast shift into fourth and a little WOT there.

If anything do it twice, one time with traction control on and once with it off. Two separate logs.

Unless your making really really good amounts of power, tire spin should be non existent so it's one less variable to worry about.

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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Can anyone share their tweaked alpha N and TB v. airflow tables for an 80mm throttle body w/ SEM setup?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I can show you the one from geoffs car, but his setup is essentially an IE catalog.

Whats the issue?


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## th4tk1dsc0tty (Jan 30, 2012)

so i just bought my friends car that blew up, he had an 03 awp. i swapped my 01 aww motor and ecu into the car. when i had the awp ecu connected it wouldnt run I'm guessing thats due to it being immo3, and my aww being immo2. i email euro dyne to see what i could do to their [email protected] any one have any insite what i should do?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Why didnt you just swap the motor and leave the ecu in it?


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## th4tk1dsc0tty (Jan 30, 2012)

didnt think it would work right, being aww and awp different


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> I can show you the one from geoffs car, but his setup is essentially an IE catalog.
> 
> Whats the issue?


Seeing another persons calibrated tables would be very helpful.

The issue is I can trace the alpha N map and make corrections but transferring that data accurately over to the throttle angle v. airflow table is an issue without running a maf sensor. 

If I had some tables that were tuned on a maf-based car I could make slight alterations if necessary but no big changes should be required.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

All you need to do is change the axis, and the alpha n table has a feature to do it for you.



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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> All you need to do is change the axis, and the alpha n table has a feature to do it for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


The values are completely different on the airflow map. Can you explain this further?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

On the alpha n map, on the title bar where you have the buttons to import/export bins etc, there is a capital 'A'. Click on it, and it will auto generate the vertical axis for the throttle angle vs airflow map.

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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> On the alpha n map, on the title bar where you have the buttons to import/export bins etc, there is a capital 'A'. Click on it, and it will auto generate the vertical axis for the throttle angle vs airflow map.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Ok I will try this thank you.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Need someone in ohio or surrounding states to help me fine tune my file. Car runs great but wanna make sure all is perfect when I start cranking the boost up to 26-30psi on my pagparts gtx2867. Anyone wanna make some good money. Will get it on a awd dyno and tune it that way. Car is flawless so tuning is the only thing needed not a mechanic as there are no mechanical issues that would slow us down or make us troubleshoot issues. 


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## rossi46numberone (Dec 11, 2011)

*Maestro log issues....*

Hi everybody,
My name is Michele from Belgium.
I have an audi TT euro 2001,BT ,deka 630cc,FMIC,AEB head,R32 TB,etc...
I've made an AWP ecu swap for WB,evap,sai delete and the car is running fine and good and smooth idle(15~14.7 afr) .
The only one not resistored is the vvt.
I've put a stage 3 mafless file on it.
I begin to do some tune for air fuel ratio first at idle and now I'm trying to tune the whole map on the road.
But big issues happens:
When I do the some log at idle or the car is not rolling no problem I can do logs for hours If I want,but when I start to log,while I'm running, the software freeze and tell 
me "too many errors communications to coninue".
for now the only solution to get logs is using my LAUNCH CREADER diag tool, but I would like to use the trace history from the maestro software...:banghead:
Please help....

Michele.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Wikkidtt post a log and file for peer review

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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

You got it. Will get a third gear pull up by days end. 


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> On the alpha n map, on the title bar where you have the buttons to import/export bins etc, there is a capital 'A'. Click on it, and it will auto generate the vertical axis for the throttle angle vs airflow map.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


I did this and then inserted the new values into the Y axis of the throttle angle vs airflow map. I will take another datalog today. Do I just trace the alpha N map and then regenerate new Y axis values for the throttle angle vs airflow map each time until the tune is perfect? 

At which point would it be a good idea to start tweaking any of the fueling tables like injection correction map??


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

I have a few issues I need to address. A few of them I know what is wrong. I am having -6 timing pull across all 4 cylinders at idle. I think it has to do with engine load. I have a 2.0L stroker setup and aeb head. The engine load when I first startup seems pretty high. It usually is in the mid to upper 20's. When the 02 sensor starts to correct the load goes down and sometimes the pull goes away. If I rev the engine while sitting the pull will go away until it comes back down and then it is back again. Any insight would be appreciated.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Curious question. Does the rear o2 sensor get utilized at all or is it purely the front o2 that does all of the work? Obviously diagnostics are turned off for the rear o2 especially when you remove the cat.


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

The rear 02 sensor is spaced with the old wayne angle block. It is turned off in maestro though.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> I did this and then inserted the new values into the Y axis of the throttle angle vs airflow map. I will take another datalog today. Do I just trace the alpha N map and then regenerate new Y axis values for the throttle angle vs airflow map each time until the tune is perfect?
> 
> At which point would it be a good idea to start tweaking any of the fueling tables like injection correction map??


Yes.

Keep in mind the alpha n is only good for pre boost.

When I think it's gets close, I like to graph an entire log in the format of timestamp vs 02 correction using excel. Lets you see an overall trend as far as how the mapping is going.

I would really suggest using main fuel correction, not injection correction.

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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> Yes.
> 
> Keep in mind the alpha n is only good for pre boost.
> 
> ...


Why do you suggest using main fuel? I thought most people use injection correction map because it has a higher resolution???


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Injection correction has a bug in it, at least confirmed so in the vvt type files.

It just confirms my suspicion, because I've never got a car to tune well using it.

Main fuel works every time, and if you get alpha n right you can increase the resolution on the main fuel map where necessary. 

For example on Jeff's car I had to increase the resolution of the rpm axis between 3500 and 4800 rpm, as fueling would always over or under correct there.

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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> On the alpha n map, on the title bar where you have the buttons to import/export bins etc, there is a capital 'A'. Click on it, and it will auto generate the vertical axis for the throttle angle vs airflow map.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


My values in my alpha n map are too large for my throttle angle vs airflow map










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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

See the capital 'A', click on it.



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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Getting ready to do my log. Once done I'll share it and my tune


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Here is my 3rd gear pull log and also my latest tune

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6pxnTiInFr6NmdKSjFHR2hEZWs&usp=sharing


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Here is my current build info

I have a built 1.8t with rods and all the goodies but kept the stock displacement and compression. Small port head with valve job and ferrea springs and retainers and everything else

Pagparts Gtx2867r kit with a dual stage boost controller. The wg has a 14 psi spring and my boost is set at 18 psi. 

I have a S4 maf and Siemens 630cc injectors with a 044 inline pump and running 3bar

I do have a set of id1000's and a 034 motorsports intake manifold that will be getting installed once the intake gets back from powder coating. Along with a ie fuel rail. 

42dd intake/velocity stack which has been bored to accommodate the larger maf sensor. 

I am running audi r8 coils and iridium plugs that are 1 step colder

Tread stone fmic and a 3" turbo back that's very free flowing. All bfi mounts and dogbone. 

Many other goodies but those aren't needed to be listed for my tune. 


I will be adjusting my ve table tonight as it is pretty far off and is probably slowing my car down.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

WiKKiDTT said:


> Here is my 3rd gear pull log and also my latest tune
> 
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6pxnTiInFr6NmdKSjFHR2hEZWs&usp=sharing


Well the tune looks pretty good, and very safe.

Here is some basic graphing using the techniques from the link in my signature:



You could use a little more timing, between 3500 and 6000 rpm. Im going to guess your close to the limit, so add sparingly here. A degree or two at a time, till you get -1.5 consistently. No timing pull with ME7, for how sensitive the knock system is, means your leaving power on the table.

Overwise it looks good, are your using WMI because your intake temps are super low.


Lambda correction is pretty good up until ~4200 rpm. You lose corrections because its richer than the ecu can control. Others here will tell you otherwise, but you dont need to run it this rich. Max power on gasoline is like ~0.86 lambda. More on that later.



Little boost creep here, but overall looks pretty good. 

Its not plotted, but your injectors are maxed out. I calculated your IDC is somewhere n around 94%. If you dyno, I can guarantee your injectors will go static.

Other notes:

Fueling is different than how I would do it, but it works.

Power Enrichment map has that typical screwy Torque Axis. It essentially is shut off here, and only the last axis is effectively used. EGT protection is set pretty low, so full load lambda is essentially on all the time. 

It works though.

If I was to do it:

Set Delay for Power Enrichment to 0.500, Set EGT Protection to 700*. Watch and log this, you will see when it kicks in. I like to have it kick in after going WOT for more than a one gear power pull, like when you start going through a few gears at WOT.

Set to Power Enrichment and Full Load Lambda to this:


Apologize for the ****ty pic, Ive had a little too much moonshine:laugh:

Also set the axis value on the last column of the optimum torque map to 255.

Made the edits I suggested Here

The other thing I noticed, is your timing curve looks to be dictated by the minimum timing map.

Not how I would do it, and by setting the last column in the optimum torque map to 255, the car should follow the timing map pretty accurately and let you set the minimum timing map to a reasonable value.

Anyways, if any questions ask away. If you feel comfortable, review the edited file and flash if you feel comfortable.



WiKKiDTT said:


> Here is my current build info
> 
> I have a built 1.8t with rods and all the goodies but kept the stock displacement and compression. Small port head with valve job and ferrea springs and retainers and everything else
> 
> ...


Saw this after my post:

Your going to need the bigger injectors, but I suspect with the 1000s and the intake mani your going to be leaning on those injectors pretty hard lol.

There isnt really a VE table to adjust. If you want the car to feel like it has more snap to it, either play with the Accel pedal map, or the target filling/optimum torque maps.

I will say that leaning the car out a little in the file I posted should help the car feel a bit better.

That Treadstone FMIC is really working nice, I use one on my MK4 and it take quite a beating from a K03s essentially set on 100%wg dc lol.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Isnt the EGT protection number somewhat dependent on where the o2 sensor is mounted in the exhaust? Mine are pretty close to the turbine housing with a 3.5" downpipe. I would expect the EGT numbers in the exhaust to vary from setup to setup based on exhaust size, no??


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Theres about 4000 different factors when it comes to calculated EGT, and realistically the correct solution is to use an EGT gauge, and adjust the temperature threshold in Maestro to have protection kick on when you want.

I know pipe diameter and pipe thickness are factors.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

You were saying earlier that Alpha N only affects pre-boost driveability. If this is the case then why is it so important for mafless users to begin adjusting alpha N before other maps like main fuel etc???

Sorry for all the questions I haven't had time or opportunity to immerse myself in maestro until now.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Just another way to skin the cat, honestly.

It has nothing to do with preboost driveability. Thats what the torque control maps have to do with.

You could in theory leave the Alpha N stock, and fix the fueling with main fuel correction or injection correction. Would probably work, and if I had to guess, a few years ago when this tuning GUI started thats probably what you had to do.

If you tune alpha N first, because for a given airflow you need a given amount of fuel to reach a target lambda (1.0 here), the ecu has the ability to actually use accurate data to operate. I suspect this affects timing as well.

That little thing called 'pressure ratio for unthrottled mode' ties into alpha n and if I understand correctly, determines when the ecu no longer uses Alpha N. I think that is why you see erroneous values on the last row of this map.


Have you tried the way to tuning the Alpha N map as I described?


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> Just another way to skin the cat, honestly.
> 
> It has nothing to do with preboost driveability. Thats what the torque control maps have to do with.
> 
> ...


Yes I have reset all the fueling maps to 1.001 and started tuning just the alpha N map with fuel trims disabled. I will report back with early results tomorrow afternoon.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Just a little note if you're wanting to go Mafless; Tune the car with a MAF at first to see what your airflows are then adjust accordingly.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

This is a repost on audizine from a well known member is this info incorrect than on the maximum ve table

"The kicker is that while this map shapes your boost curve, it is also the map that sets the request for fuel and timing. This means that if you attempt to load a very aggressive boost curve that your hardware can't keep up with, then you will get sharp performance decrease. For example, if you are on a turbo that hits peak boost at 4000 RPM, and you are asking it to hit full load by 3000 RPM then you will end up requesting more fuel and timing than are necessary and the ECU will dial it back to be safe, but you end up with worse lag! So the key here is to shape your curve to fit your logs."


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

WiKKiDTT said:


> This is a repost on audizine from a well known member is this info incorrect than on the maximum ve table
> 
> "The kicker is that while this map shapes your boost curve, it is also the map that sets the request for fuel and timing. This means that if you attempt to load a very aggressive boost curve that your hardware can't keep up with, then you will get sharp performance decrease. For example, if you are on a turbo that hits peak boost at 4000 RPM, and you are asking it to hit full load by 3000 RPM then you will end up requesting more fuel and timing than are necessary and the ECU will dial it back to be safe, but you end up with worse lag! So the key here is to shape your curve to fit your logs."
> 
> ...


I brought this up recently. 

MANY people will just take the VE map and make the line go from say, 110 to 245 and then just fill the whole thing other than idle with 245. 

It'll run just fine, but you've effectively given up control. You're just telling it to go to whatever your theoretical maximum is. 

Personally I shape the VE around the spool of the turbo being used and the torque maps and then use PID to tell it how much boost I want. 

I've never seen it do anything crazy from people setting this map too high, but I consider it a lazy way of achieving higher than "allowable" boost. Plus I don't want my requested load to be maxed out at (random number) say 245 when the actual is only reaching 210. The load will change from setup to setup. Sculpt it to mimic the actual with a little added headroom.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Rather than argue points here, post logs and files. Or a dyno sheet.

Fueling and timing are not determined from requested load, they are determined from actual load.

Load is determined by boost pressure and MAF signal.

Having load actual go beyond requested result in torque intervention. That typically results erratic timing adjustments.

Fueling has nothing to do with this.



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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> Rather than argue points here, post logs and files. Or a dyno sheet.
> 
> Fueling and timing are not determined from requested load, they are determined from actual load.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:

One correction, though:

Having load actual go beyond requested *CAN* result in torque intervention (but doesn't have to).


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Rather than argue points here, post logs and files. Or a dyno sheet.
> 
> Fueling and timing are not determined from requested load, they are determined from actual load.
> 
> ...


That's what I would have thought I just wanted to make sure I was right. I'll be loading that file tonight and will give you my thoughts along with some logs. 


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Also what's your thoughts on the boost creep. I have a external waste gate "tial mv-s" that is connected to the turbo housing via a tap. When I remove my dual stage boost controller and run wg pressure I get 14 psi then creep to 16. I wouldn't have thought that I would get any boost creep with this setup. 

I'm not to concerned but when I crank the boost up to 24-26 psi I don't want 28-30 psi at redline on my pump gas file. 


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

It's most likely only going to happen at lower boost pressures. At a higher target boost pressure, less exhaust gasses have to bypass the turbine to maintain target. 

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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> I brought this up recently.
> 
> MANY people will just take the VE map and make the line go from say, 110 to 245 and then just fill the whole thing other than idle with 245.
> 
> ...


As long as the changes done on target load are reflected in the torque model this is the way it should be done. :thumbup:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> As long as the changes done on target load are reflected in the torque model this is the way it should be done. :thumbup:


indeed


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Now my performance shop is saying that I should play it safe and not lean out my tune just to gain a little more power as my car is made for track days he said playing it safe out weighs the gain on a track. I agree with him but countered and said how lean would you run and he said 11.7 max. Is there any power to be gained from changing it from 11.3 to 11.7? If not then I will leave it the way it is on fueling. And just tweak my timing and keep moving forward


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

WiKKiDTT said:


> Now my performance shop is saying that I should play it safe and not lean out my tune just to gain a little more power as my car is made for track days he said playing it safe out weighs the gain on a track. I agree with him but countered and said how lean would you run and he said 11.7 max. Is there any power to be gained from changing it from 11.3 to 11.7? If not then I will leave it the way it is on fueling. And just tweak my timing and keep moving forward
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's the beauty of me7.

Power enrichment to get fuel in there as you request it.

Full load lambda to fuel it at the current load when egts get too high. I think I set this on your file to ~0.8 lambda, which is roughly 12.0:1 afr.

There is a another stage of fueling disabled with maestro, and its knock based. More knock you get, the more fuel. I've got to email tapp about this.

No need to run it that rich if your doing a one gear pull, this isn't an evo or sti. All you do is foul up plugs and load an engine up with carbon.

If your going to track this car, consider wmi. Lot more protection for an engine than just running pump fuel super rich.



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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Tapp has been emailed requesting he enable KFLAMKR. 

I suggest anyone interested in having the ability to layer in another form of target fueling send him an email.

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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Just did


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

WiKKiDTT said:


> Now my performance shop is saying that I should play it safe and not lean out my tune just to gain a little more power as my car is made for track days he said playing it safe out weighs the gain on a track. I agree with him but countered and said how lean would you run and he said 11.7 max. Is there any power to be gained from changing it from 11.3 to 11.7? If not then I will leave it the way it is on fueling. And just tweak my timing and keep moving forward
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nonsense .8 -.82 is safe and should be your target.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> Nonsense .8 -.82 is safe and should be your target.



Using full load lambda, perhaps at the lower end of that scale. Combustion chamber temperatures are dynamic; as should target fueling.

Hopefully Tapp responds with my request, and not the usual no response.

Wikkiddtt keep us posted if you decide to try that edit I posted, and follow up with logs.


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

Leaner is Meaner. I tune for 12.2:1 or .83 lambda above 15psi of boost pressure. 
I have seen the most power at 12.7:1 AFR .86 lambda but the engine runs hotter. 
remember at the track you are making the motor hot so managing the temps
is what will keep you from blowing a head gasket.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Given Wikiddtt 's turbo, I don't think his intent is drag racing.

If it's autocross/road course, a little richer using full load lambda is okay.



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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Given Wikiddtt 's turbo, I don't think his intent is drag racing.
> 
> If it's autocross/road course, a little richer using full load lambda is okay.
> 
> ...


The purpose of this build was not for 1/4 drag strips but for autox and track days. Yes I will take it to the track in the beginning of spring to get a 1/4 mile number but that's the only time it will go. I also sometimes daily drive it depending on weather. Even though I have a Quattro with winter sport 3d tires I try not to drive It in bad weather. That's what I have my work vehicle for. And when that's not fun I drive my Subaru BRZ which is fun just doesn't have any ballz. Dave just relook at that file you told me to use and make sure you made the right changes. I will load it and get some logs. Also the injectors and new intake mani should be going in this weekend as it is back from powdercoating and my new raxles came in yesterday so that means sat install for all. 


The car has all interior and convenience stuff installed it's not a full up race car. Just so I don't mislead people



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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

From Tapp

What base file are you using?
I can probably add the map in the next release.



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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Wikkiddtt,

Flash the file, it will fuel fine.

When you log, try to do a multi-year pull. There's enough of a difference in requested lambdas between the two maps to see when it will engage component protection.

Tell tapp to add it to any of the stage 3 AWP files.



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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Wikkiddtt,
> 
> Flash the file, it will fuel fine.
> 
> ...


Will have to wait a couple of days. ice storm on its way. Cars are inside for now. 











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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Small tuning update. I have done 3 different logs and made changes to the alpha N map and generated the y axis values for the throttle angle vs airflow map each time. I am at the point where the last set of values for throttle angle v airflow didn't really change at all. 

The next step is to start logging and making changes to main fuel correction. The car starts going lean after 15psi in any gear under high load. 

Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

What amount boost will you be targeting?


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Budsdubbin said:


> What amount boost will you be targeting?


Wastegate spring is set at 20psi. Garrett 35R turbo, .63AR housing.

I did 2 logs and revisions of the main fuel correction map tonight.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Good morning guys! Been out of the scene for a while now that I sold my car. Quick question. My friend just updated his injectors to 750cc, IE intake mani, and a HEMI 86mm throttle along with new IC. What's the closest base file he can use from the library Tapp has in Maestro? Thanks so much in advance.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

a4e3y5 said:


> Good morning guys! Been out of the scene for a while now that I sold my car. Quick question. My friend just updated his injectors to 750cc, IE intake mani, and a HEMI 86mm throttle along with new IC. What's the closest base file he can use from the library Tapp has in Maestro? Thanks so much in advance.


Stage 3 / whichever one says SEM manifold and 80mm TB / Then just change the Constant for the injectors with the wizard. 

I know it's an IE manifold. The SEM file works fine with it. 

Make sure the file is the proper VVT on/off

set Main Fuel and Injector Correction as well as Flowmeter Correction to 1.0001 then log the piss out of it. 

Once the fuel is in line and you're not seeing knock then you can move over to boost and then adjust fuel accordingly as boost rises.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> Stage 3 / whichever one says SEM manifold and 80mm TB / Then just change the Constant for the injectors with the wizard.
> 
> I know it's an IE manifold. The SEM file works fine with it.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I will try with VVT off. For some reason my car never liked VVT and since it is not my car I will leave it off. He can turn it on later on if he wishes he he. Unless, as far as you know....has there been improvements to the VVT? I remember my car a lil jerky when VVT hit and backfiring when letting off the gas.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Small tuning update. I have done 3 different logs and made changes to the alpha N map and generated the y axis values for the throttle angle vs airflow map each time. I am at the point where the last set of values for throttle angle v airflow didn't really change at all.
> 
> The next step is to start logging and making changes to main fuel correction. The car starts going lean after 15psi in any gear under high load.
> 
> Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Before you go making changes to main fuel correction, take a nice long log with the n80 disconnected.

Using excel, plot it time stamp vs 02 correction. Doing that will let you see an overall trend as to what is going on.

If you want to ensure fueling during any boost situation while working on the pre boost fueling, just add like 10% to the main fuel correction map anywhere above 4000 rpm and 100% load. Its a half ass way of doing it, but for now it will be fine while working on driveability.





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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

a4e3y5 said:


> Thanks! I will try with VVT off. For some reason my car never liked VVT and since it is not my car I will leave it off. He can turn it on later on if he wishes he he. Unless, as far as you know....has there been improvements to the VVT? I remember my car a lil jerky when VVT hit and backfiring when letting off the gas.


I would recommend leaving it off at first as well. Although you shouldn't have any issues from it. If it was backfiring when the VVT was on that was some hardware issue you had. 

Needless to say it'll be easier to tune with VVT off. If he uses a VVT on file though, he can go to the cam setting and move all the blocks to the normal cam timing and then later add the cam changes later. Essentially just save the cam timing map for VVT and then he can pull up just that map later. Not sure if that made sense to you or not since I know what I'm trying to relay lol. 

If your friend would like a base file just send me a PM and I can send one to start with. It will be completely basic and will require all the tuning to be done, I'll just give you a starting point.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> I would recommend leaving it off at first as well. Although you shouldn't have any issues from it. If it was backfiring when the VVT was on that was some hardware issue you had.
> 
> Needless to say it'll be easier to tune with VVT off. If he uses a VVT on file though, he can go to the cam setting and move all the blocks to the normal cam timing and then later add the cam changes later. Essentially just save the cam timing map for VVT and then he can pull up just that map later. Not sure if that made sense to you or not since I know what I'm trying to relay lol.
> 
> If your friend would like a base file just send me a PM and I can send one to start with. It will be completely basic and will require all the tuning to be done, I'll just give you a starting point.


Thanks; appreciated. PM sent. I thought it would be the stg 3 SEM n 80mm throttle file as well, but cuz I've been off the scene for a while, I wanted to double check. I hope smoothing it out wont be that bad he he. Now, and this is for anyone...what was the formula to calculate inyector duty in %? I don't remember well but it was something like rpm x something and then divided by something else? Anyone? I want to make sure his injectors are enough for what he's running.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Rpm x injector ms/1200

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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Rpm x injector ms/1200
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Thanks Dave!!


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

High IDC % can also show up if the fuel pump is unable to flow the amount of fuel required.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

spartiati said:


> High IDC % can also show up if the fuel pump is unable to flow the amount of fuel required.


Yeah, that one I was aware of. Just wanted to make sure cuz he is running 750cc rite now so he shouldn't have any problems unless like u say...pump is not flowing. Really want see if they are close to max out (which I really doubt) since he likes to run hi boost (32-35 psi).


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

What fuel pump does he have?

Turbo?

Sorry haven't been up to date on vortex as of late. DAMN YOU GRAD SCHOOL!


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

spartiati said:


> What fuel pump does he have?
> 
> Turbo?
> 
> Sorry haven't been up to date on vortex as of late. DAMN YOU GRAD SCHOOL!


Not sure about pump (inline/intank/brand). Turbo is a 3071. He just likes boost, meth, and sometimes (more often than not)....race gas he he he


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Well unless he is on e85 then even a drop in walbro should be just fine @ 3 bar base pressure...


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Well unless he is on e85 then even a drop in walbro should be just fine @ 3 bar base pressure...


He runs on 93 n often on special juice he he he. Just covering all possible bases since the car is not mine. Some of my friends bought the program n never cared to learn so now im the one to go to when poop hits the fan...


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Get a better fuel system lol


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

schwartzmagic said:


> Get a better fuel system lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk


Or a running car :laugh:


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

anyone getting errors when trying to download flash 5.1.0 and editor 3.9.8?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> anyone getting errors when trying to download flash 5.1.0 and editor 3.9.8?


wont let me download from site either.

from the desk top icons it just sits there

from the site editor says address isn't valid and flash error says invalid target.

anyone else with these issues?:banghead:


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

SGTphatboy said:


> anyone getting errors when trying to download flash 5.1.0 and editor 3.9.8?


Yesssss .. I thought I was the only one lol

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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

grasman94 said:


> Yesssss .. I thought I was the only one lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


I also had some issues.


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## Sour Diesal GTI (Sep 5, 2009)

ok got a question.. i have my rear o2 sensor turned off, but im still getting p0036 code... any idea's why this code is being throw even tho its off in maestro???


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## blackie9900 (Jan 25, 2005)

does anyone have a map that gives a 1:1 accelerator pedal ?

thanks


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Emailed


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

What is with this update???????

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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

blackie9900 said:


> does anyone have a map that gives a 1:1 accelerator pedal ?
> 
> thanks


What are the advantages/disadvantages to this vs stock accelerator pedal map?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

This wasn't an update. Just a tweaked accel pedal map to keep the pedal feel more linear...


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> What are the advantages/disadvantages to this vs stock accelerator pedal map?


Don't know other than to say, 

Have you ever driven a DBC car? 

On a BDW no matter how linear you make the map to seem 1:1 there will always be a dead / overshoot spot. The question kinda answers itself. The stock map gives you a more on/off switch feeling. 

When it comes to motorsports (more RWD) having the full and direct access of the pedal is important. The more control you have, well... the more control you have. eace:


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

i need to start posting and reading more in this forum. the guys in here are probably the best and most helpful guys on this site, hands down.

bout to start tuning my setup, hit the track today on a complete base file, and was pretty embarrassed to say the least. i know a lot of it is just not being used to the car as it sits, and having an all season tire and not a radial or slick, but still. i know for a fact there is a lot more to be had with what im running. 

just to give a quick run down.
CTS turbo kit with a pte5431 (50 trim) with .63a/r housing, 38mm wastegate, 3" TBE, eurojet race fmic, stock intake mani w/ stock TB, mafless, currently running 870cc siemens injectors with the matching base file off eurodyne. engine has drop in 20mm rods with aeb pistons, aeb head, stock stroke (still a 1.8). 

first question would be, should i stick with the 870cc or should i drop down to the 630. i started with 630s because thats what i had with my f23 but decided to snag a set of 870s for cheap. i plan to stick with stock 3bar fuel pressure, and i currently will only run 91 octane since its the only fuel available besides race fuel, but may do e85 for track days, but will 870s be enough to keep up with a 50trim on ethanol or will i need to run 1000-1200cc injectors?

also, has any ever actually used the 2-step feature on eurodyne for more than a flamethrower?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

booster_ginster98 said:


> i need to start posting and reading more in this forum. the guys in here are probably the best and most helpful guys on this site, hands down.
> 
> bout to start tuning my setup, hit the track today on a complete base file, and was pretty embarrassed to say the least. i know a lot of it is just not being used to the car as it sits, and having an all season tire and not a radial or slick, but still. i know for a fact there is a lot more to be had with what im running.
> 
> ...


Injectors are too small for E85

Yes 2step can be used just fine if you dial it in properly.


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

DMVDUB said:


> Injectors are too small for E85
> 
> Yes 2step can be used just fine if you dial it in properly.


thats what i figured. i may just run the 870s and get the tune tweaked more, that way if i ever upgrade to a bigger turbo i'll have the fueling capabilities for regular gas, then i'll look into getting larger injectors to run ethanol if i decide to venture back down that road again.

good to know on the 2step. i've been timid about using it because i wasnt sure how effective it was, or user friendly. but after the track day today, being fwd and large turbo that doesnt spool as soon as you touch the throttle was difficult. wheel time will surely help, along with a better tire, but i figured being able to have some boost built under launch would also help.

as always, you guys are great. i'm sure i'll have questions later down the road to get my setup fine tuned. need to find a good MAF sensor so i can throw one back on the car to dial it in before i go back to mafless.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

When it comes to setting the anti lag you need to find out where your cars traction goes out the window. If you're using slicks vs radials there's going to be a big difference as well as if you have an LSD. With your tires you'll warm them up and when you launch you need to find that sweet spot where they spin for a second and then grip (if you can grip in boost with FWD without any spin at all you're doing everything right) expect to spin / chirp and hook under boosted launch. It's better to have a bit of spin than to bog down. Your launch is going to have way more to do with your ability as a driver and how your suspension is set up. If you want to make any decent time with a FWD car you're going to need slicks. Good drag radials are better than nothing but there's still going to be a huge difference. 

Another thing that comes with anti lag is the no lift shift feature. THIS is a pain in the ass to set properly. Set it too low and you're not going to cut enough during engagement and smash up your gears. If you set it too high you're going to lose a large amount of power between shifts (but you'll get a cool fireball). So this along with anti lag is something that you need to play with until it matches your driving ability and the ability of your car. You may be able to leave under boost at 15psi with drag radials and catch some traction while a regular street tire may only get 5psi, and a slick may get you 22psi (all theoretical). Having ballast on the front as well as your suspension loaded properly is going to dictate this even more.

So, set the suspension to maximize traction for your tires then play with anti lag it until you're not gaining anymore (losing anymore time on your 60'). Also don't think you have to floor it on your launch with anti lag. Feather it back (this will have to do with your tuning, if you tune it right letting off the accel a bit will lower boost but keep you in anti lag / if not you will lose all of your boost and have a weak launch) to the sweet spot so when you let the clutch go you give it time to grab, then go for it all. Some people may have different methods, but this is mine and it works for me. With my Talon (AWD) there was a whole different method going on, and after the 2nd rear end explodes you learn to modify it even more. It becomes a toss up if the race is worth all the parts you're about to break. Luckily your issue is going to be traction more than breaking axles, differentials and transmissions. 

Really though it all comes down to practice and what works best for you.eace:


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

DMVDUB said:


> When it comes to setting the anti lag you need to find out where your cars traction goes out the window. If you're using slicks vs radials there's going to be a big difference as well as if you have an LSD. With your tires you'll warm them up and when you launch you need to find that sweet spot where they spin for a second and then grip (if you can grip in boost with FWD without any spin at all you're doing everything right) expect to spin / chirp and hook under boosted launch. It's better to have a bit of spin than to bog down. Your launch is going to have way more to do with your ability as a driver and how your suspension is set up. If you want to make any decent time with a FWD car you're going to need slicks. Good drag radials are better than nothing but there's still going to be a huge difference.
> 
> Another thing that comes with anti lag is the no lift shift feature. THIS is a pain in the ass to set properly. Set it too low and you're not going to cut enough during engagement and smash up your gears. If you set it too high you're going to lose a large amount of power between shifts (but you'll get a cool fireball). So this along with anti lag is something that you need to play with until it matches your driving ability and the ability of your car. You may be able to leave under boost at 15psi with drag radials and catch some traction while a regular street tire may only get 5psi, and a slick may get you 22psi (all theoretical). Having ballast on the front as well as your suspension loaded properly is going to dictate this even more.
> 
> ...


wow thanks for going into depth like that, seriously i appreciate it haha. im going to be ordering a set of drag radials in a couple weeks to start with. i figured i'd start with these to get the hang of launching the car with my current setup and see how it responds. right now, my best 60' time was a 2.70, which is horrible. pretty much i either bog the hell out of it or it spins if i try to launch high with the turbo spooling. i know there is much more to be had, a lot of it is tuning considering i havent touched the maps at all. running a stock 870 map. i need more wheel time too. i've been used to being able to get off the line without launching too hard because i always had small turbo, but now with the low end gone, gotta get it launched harder. 

i appreciate the info. hopefully the weather holds out and i can get to doing some logging, and then the questions will begin again.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

870s at 4 bar will be almost 1000ccs, which will support ~375whp on E85.

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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> 870s at 4 bar will be almost 1000ccs, which will support ~375whp on E85.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Ahhh damn that does not look good for me, so 725cc Injectors at 4 bar is a little under 850 what kind of power can I see with that fueling?

Sorry for jumping in like that but marcus aurelios got me thinking when he said 725's are awful small for my turbo and e85


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Maybe 325whp or so.

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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

I found an injector calculator, so I guess you have to first figure out your injector size for your HP goals and then do your injector lbs x 1.47 to get the estimated size for E85

http://injector-rehab.com/shop/e85_injector_size.html

so according to this, I need 1200cc injectors for 400 whp on E85?

Thank you for your time Dave


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

That's about right. Geoff made just under 400 and his injectors were maxed out

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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> That's about right. Geoff made just under 400 and his injectors were maxed out
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Do you think there is more power to be made on pump and water and meth? I am aiming for 380-400 wheel 

I only get 91 oct gas in Phoenix

I guess switching to E85 is a bit silly since we need such large injectors, in the other hand, what injectors would I meed to make 400 wheel with 91 and wather/meth


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

PernellGTI said:


> Do you think there is more power to be made on pump and water and meth? I am aiming for 380-400 wheel
> 
> I only get 91 oct gas in Phoenix
> 
> I guess switching to E85 is a bit silly since we need such large injectors, in the other hand, what injectors would I meed to make 400 wheel with 91 and wather/meth


That depends on what kind of fuel pressure you want to run


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

How about my 725's @ 4 BAR? Would that be good for 400 wheel with water and meth?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Just go with bigger. 

I personally wouldn't run smaller than 1000's 

Look at it this way, injectors don't cost much to upgrade and it's better to have more than you need and not need it.


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## poopie (Feb 22, 2005)

Looking for some tuning help. 

Important info:
2008cc AWM motor with AEB head and intake manifold. stock throttle body
comp 5858 triplex extended tip
schrick 252/260 cams 
Siemens 870cc injectors
tubular manifold 

Mafless

I had the car running great on the 630s on this set up

I decided to upgrade to 870s since i found a set for a good price. Sold the 630s while i was installed the new tube manifold and fabbed the downpipe. 

Went into the eurodyne database and grabbed the 830cc basefile. 

The car has issues with idling. I played with the IC but nothing else. Can anyone point me in the right direction to at least get the car to idle properly? I tried using my modified 630 base file and adjusting the IC to 870 but that didn't help the idle at all. It behaves the same as the 830 file. 

When it starts up it runs slightly rich. As it warms up it goes into super rich mode and corrects way past 22% and the throttle cycles up and down to compensate. 

Here is the log and i as lucky enough the capture the moment it starts. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4MFlki_7aBOU0lGbTcyd0VIcXc/edit?usp=sharing


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

poopie said:


> Looking for some tuning help.
> 
> Important info:
> 2008cc AWM motor with AEB head and intake manifold. stock throttle body
> ...


Uhm I am not a pro by any means but I got my idle rock solid by adjusting both IC and BVC


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

DMVDUB said:


> Just go with bigger.
> 
> I personally wouldn't run smaller than 1000's
> 
> Look at it this way, injectors don't cost much to upgrade and it's better to have more than you need and not need it.


Ok Will go for 1000's at least, do you know where to get them at a good price? I saw Bosch 96 lb ones at 74 a piece, EV6's work?


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## poopie (Feb 22, 2005)

PernellGTI said:


> Uhm I am not a pro by any means but I got my idle rock solid by adjusting both IC and BVC


yeah i figured it would come down to this. I cannot find any data to even help with the BVC from Siemens. I don't want to give up though. I think this tune just needs some work on setting up the injectors.


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

yeah, I was never able to find a flow chart or anything from siemens and went with the 725's now I am going with 1000"s good luck to me lol


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

Can anyone try to get a file from the library? When I do I get the 404 error not found blah blah message, the file names also show incomplete. I wonder if there is a problem with the server?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

PernellGTI said:


> Ok Will go for 1000's at least, do you know where to get them at a good price? I saw Bosch 96 lb ones at 74 a piece, EV6's work?


STEVEBILT is having a sale on injectors right now I believe they are having a sale (could be wrong) I don't see the 1000's on their site but they do have them just email *[email protected]* or find the user here named Mike P. and shoot him a PM. 

Also USRT is always a great source for injectors, but I think Mike has them on sale right now so I'd see what he's got going on first. eace:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

PernellGTI said:


> Ok Will go for 1000's at least, do you know where to get them at a good price? I saw Bosch 96 lb ones at 74 a piece, EV6's work?


Go for 2000s, no need not to if you get an ev14 injector.

There's other benefits to corn as well, mainly being lower egts and an enhanced cleaning effect it has on the combustion chamber.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

**** I went with 1000's they were cheap!!! 40 each bosch brand new... they are EV6 I am going to need adapters?


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

PernellGTI said:


> Ok Will go for 1000's at least, do you know where to get them at a good price? I saw Bosch 96 lb ones at 74 a piece, EV6's work?


Pagparts! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

I ended up buying the Bosch 96 lb 1000cc injectors, they are EV6 so I dont quite understand what connector is that. Anyway I hope those and 4 bars of pressure will give me enough for 380 whp on E85 or even on 91 and water and meth.

They were 170 shipped on ebay brand new and that was almost impossible to pass. I will now sell my ID 725cc how much should I ask for those? I used them less than a year and paid 500 for them.


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

Just a quick note, the maestro library is not working, Eurodyne changed website and servers and files cant be downloaded for a little bit. Chris is aware and said he will look into it later.

In case someone noticed.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Did he do the update for knock based target lambda?

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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

PernellGTI said:


> Just a quick note, the maestro library is not working, Eurodyne changed website and servers and files cant be downloaded for a little bit. Chris is aware and said he will look into it later.
> 
> In case someone noticed.


is anyone else having issues logging into the download page?


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

carsluTT said:


> is anyone else having issues logging into the download page?


It wasn't working for me earlier, now it seems fine.... Library still down though.

I saw in your signature, you do a lot of custom work, by boost tubes you mean custom piping? I am curious...


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## poopie (Feb 22, 2005)

poopie said:


> Looking for some tuning help.
> 
> Important info:
> 2008cc AWM motor with AEB head and intake manifold. stock throttle body
> ...


Just to follow up...I broke the cardinal rule. - "Make sure your car isn't broken."

Turns out my o2 sensor was bad. My ecu was reading very lean and dumping fuel and my wideband was reading super rich.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Hey, I'm still in the process of getting my tune ironed out. I had a rough idle on my 1000cc Genesis II injectors, and never really got that figured out. I tried reverting from my 3.5 bar FPR back to the stock 3 bar (measured at 38psi with vac line off @ idle) and that didnt do much of anything but I decided to just roll with it. 

Now I'm trying to get my WOT squared away for a dyno day this month. I'm having some really weird O2 correction issues right now. On a 4th gear pull (best gear for traction) my corrections take a dive for -22% as soon as boost kicks in, then slowly climb throughout the rev range to +22%. My system is leak free. This is @ 32psi on a precision 5558 turbo. Not sure if MAF readings will be helpful but I'm getting ~1400kg/hr peak which is right on the money for ~450hp, around what the car put down last summer. Duty cycle hits a max of 71% 

Could it be my fuel pump isn't flowing enough to support this kind of power? I know DSM guys can squeeze 600hp out of a walbro 255 so I kind of doubt it but at the same time I don't know what else it could be...


Heres a log
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9fej8UQof0iekhSU3BRN3VqR1Y2TEtZTnQzVTlQcV9QS3Q0/edit?usp=sharing


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Sounds like you could be using the wrong IC or BVC. I see big sways in correction especially when BVC is wrong. My advice would be to adjust the constant and see what happens.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

That's the thing, I've adjusted my IC/BVC multiple times. I get -15ish% correction cruising around, -22 with any decent amount of load, but going WOT causes this to happen. Thought fuel pump made sense because my trims continue popping up 15% positive, yet I'm getting negative correction everywhere but WOT. If the pump can't sustain the proper flow under load then the ECU will try to correct and increase the injector pulsewidth, but the fuel flow just isn't there, which would result in what I'm experiencing. Sound correct?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Have you adjusted the MAF Correction?


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

DMVDUB said:


> Have you adjusted the MAF Correction?


Maf correction ? It's a WOT run is this w02 or n02 ecu? 

And it says MAF LESS so maf corrections aren't really applicable ! 

As long as actual lambda is meeting requested on a wot run then all is good. You can adjust the reaction time of the O2 sensor , but I assume and I haven't looked at your logs that you have a lean out in lambda just after onset of boost till it reacts and follows the desired? You can preempt this with the corrections but it's only really taming and something to be honest isn't , as long as actual follows requested when on full boost you need to worry about..

Edit:

Just read a bit more. It's just your lambda delay reaction time. By the time the ecu has computed it's going lean from 02 readings it's gone "leaner" than it would like.. so then it over compensates to get it back to were it should be, hence the swing.. not sure you can preempt this on maf less as there's no load calculations .. I think there was a m.a.p fuelling tweek around..


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Beachbuggy said:


> Maf correction ? It's a WOT run is this w02 or n02 ecu?
> 
> And it says MAF LESS so maf corrections aren't really applicable !
> 
> ...


Where did you get mafless from? It says MAF READINGS "1400kg/hr peak" 

But hey... What do I know? I've never gotten my IC tables reeled in by making sure my MAF corrections were on point or anything...


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

Sorry got username poodie and poody confused..apologies as 1 is maf less. 

Maf corrections can be used yes.. 
Is actually going leaner than requested?


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

And to be fair I'd be more worried about the 12 cf you got going on!


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

would any of you happen to have the proper table for a 3" maf? i am trying to determine if building the typical 3" aluminum tube with maf bung will be tunable for my new setup or if i should deal with one of the per-programed maf's already in maestro. yes maf-less would be a way to go but........ i have found idle issues on built motors running cams and maf-less tuning. so i will start off with a maf then down the road posibly go maf-less.


thanks


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

And the 0.75 lambda at part throttle ! 

With all due respect I'd serious look at that tune before you bore wash the hell out the engine or detonate it to heaven! 

Presently a slight lean condition at the onset of boost is the least of your worries..


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Well, beachbuggy, thats what I'm trying to take care of atm. Like I said, I increased my IC already, 15% over calculated value. Im assuming my trims are coming up positive because of the maxed corrections at WOT. My IC is definitely too high as shown by the rich part throttle. Before adjusting my IC, I attempted increasing main fuel by up to 20% in high load areas. I'm new to tuning, and don't honestly deserve any respect, so bash away on my tune if need be, I need all the help I can get. 

The question I'm trying to answer is, does it look like I have a maxed out pump? My injectors are more than capable of flowing for this level of power, but if my pump can't keep up with the turbo, then even if my injectors go static, there wont be enough fuel. Is it possible that this is what I'm running into? It does make sense that at 80psi rail pressure, the walbro 255 isn't able to sustain enough flow right? 

If not, whats protocol on adjusting WOT fueling with MAF correction table?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Keep to the calculated IC make sure the bvc is manufacturer spec. Part. Recale your maf curve based on the 02 corrections if lower loads are rich then lower the start of the curve in intervals of .05 - .1 if your lean up top then you can try raising the end of the curve (but I would try and use maf correction for that). It's a crude way to rescale but it works. In my setup I set alpha n and throttle vrs airflow before I touched upon any maf correction just to make sure it wasn't defaulting to alpha n from the high corrections.

Only assume your running out of fuel if your injector duty is maxed. Google the calculator if your not sure our to do that.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Hmm. I'm not assuming my injectors are too small, they should support 600+ hp at 100% duty cycle. I'm saying if my o2 corrections are maxed out and I'm running 80psi rail pressure, isn't it possible that my pump can't sustain that flow? That's all I'm trying to ask. I know how to dial in IC and BVC, I know how to tweak fueling maps, but if adding 20% correction factor at high loads still results in a 22.whatever o2 correction, shouldn't I rule out the tune at that point and look into hardware issues (vac/boost/exhaust leak, clogged injectors, weak fuel pump)? 

I'm just trying to rule out a hardware problem before I waste time messing with my tune. I just seriously doubt that after increasing my injector constant 15% from calculated value, adding 20% to main fuel, and seeing the maxed corrections I'm getting, (with 10% positive fuel trim again) that my tune is the problem. 

So, does this sound like a hardware issue??


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Why don't you post your current tune? Full mod list too 

Your getting a ton of timing pull
Way too much timing. Timing pull should be a max of -3.

Injector duty cycle is almost 75% based on your logs.

I'm trying to get tapp to turn on knock based fueling to help those out who are forced to run cat piss.

If your getting negative corrections at idle, but positive corrections the way you are at red line, something isn't right.





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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

Poody said:


> Hmm. I'm not assuming my injectors are too small, they should support 600+ hp at 100% duty cycle. I'm saying if my o2 corrections are maxed out and I'm running 80psi rail pressure, isn't it possible that my pump can't sustain that flow? That's all I'm trying to ask. I know how to dial in IC and BVC, I know how to tweak fueling maps, but if adding 20% correction factor at high loads still results in a 22.whatever o2 correction, shouldn't I rule out the tune at that point and look into hardware issues (vac/boost/exhaust leak, clogged injectors, weak fuel pump)?
> 
> I'm just trying to rule out a hardware problem before I waste time messing with my tune. I just seriously doubt that after increasing my injector constant 15% from calculated value, adding 20% to main fuel, and seeing the maxed corrections I'm getting, (with 10% positive fuel trim again) that my tune is the problem.
> 
> So, does this sound like a hardware issue??


If the pump was failing then Idc would be 100% and you'd be running lean at top end v requested.. 

Don't confuse stft and ltft .. 


Like said.. stick with the krkte and tvub set out for the injectors. . 

Understanding that part throttle fuelling is load based and wot is w02 will help you figure out what you need to do.. 

If the WOT is OK ie following Lamfa then small corrections to maf corrections will smooth out the profile..

Getting part throttle sorted is harder as it's all maf based.. 

I'd start by taking 10 degree timing out first though to ensure you don't go into knock and trigger other protection


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Dave, here's the file I had flashed to my car for the log posted above. Should be noted that my IC and BVC have been altered from calculated values. IC was raised 15% and BVC lowered 5% roughly. Edits to main fuel were made as a half assed way of getting some more fuel in at redline to see if it could be resolved in that way. At the time of the log above, block 32 read -4% and 13%


My full mod list is as follows: Pag V-band kit with Precision 5558 JB turbo, V8 maf, tt225 intake mani, stock TB, small Godspeed FMIC, Emissions deletes, Snow stage 2 meth setup, cheap 30psi MBC, TiAL QR, 2.5" IC pipe, 3" TBE, IE rods, walbro 255, 1000cc Genesis II injectors, 3bar FRP (measured @ 38psi). Also have a 3.7bar FPR which measured @ 50psi but I put the stock back in in an attempt to smooth my idle. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9fej8UQof0iYTVWV1JwUjJ6Ym8/edit?usp=sharing

Beachbuggy, I guess I don't quite understand how fuel corrections work. I just know that before this point, calculated KRKTE and TVUB have never been more that 10% off in any of my tunes. Something is definitely amiss when I have 15% added to IC in the tune, ~20% added through main fuel, 13% added to IC through fuel trim, and max o2 corrections. Am I exceeding the MAF/MAP limit in the ECU? I know there are limits posted in the S4 wiki page that it looks like I've exceeded, however you said WOT is based solely on WBO2 readings. 

Based on this: http://www.deatschwerks.com/resources/fuel-calculators/fuel-pump-calculator

I need a fuel pump capable of sustaining 215+ LPH at 73 PSI, where the wally 255 falls to around 150 in that pressure range.

Anyways, any insight/suggestions are welcome. Thanks dudes :beer:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

1. What's the deal with your load? 258 at all RPM?? 

2. LOWER TIMING!!! You won't be able to fix anything with it intervening 

3. You could adjust you WOT Lambda to match what it's adding / removing. You don't need .80 lambda, that's too rich. Don't go richer than .85 there's no point. If you lean out those spots on WOT it'll lessen the correction, then you just have to smooth out part throttle. 

Also, the actual load never goes above 202 so having it set at 258 isn't doing you any favors. Shape the load around the ACTUAL maximum load the engine reaches.

Take it or leave it but here's my advice for you,

Lower timing 10* / let the histogram fix it

Set your main fuel / IC and MAF correction to 1.0001

Adjust the WOT Lambda 

Fix load values / guessing it's the VE map maxed out

Start over eace:


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

DMVDUB said:


> 1. What's the deal with your load? 258 at all RPM??
> 
> 2. LOWER TIMING!!! You won't be able to fix anything with it intervening
> 
> ...


I'll get right on those edits. I've never touched load on any tunes I've played with so I'm assuming load is still set the same as the base file. Same deal with Power Enrichment, .82 was from the base file, I leaned out the lower rpm/torque areas just a bit. I'll reset my KRKTE/TVUB, remove the 20% from Main Fuel, and tweak the WOT target and VE tables and see if that helps. Thanks for the tips


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Shaping the load profile makes for nothing more than pretty lines on a data log that are irrelevant. 

What also needs to be reviewed is why the boost actual is so much higher than requested. 

Target filling needs to matched to suit, Or the torque model gets all messed up unless you have 'no timing influence over 100% load' clicked. Said timing mod is a hack honestly, and really should only be used on fuels like E85.

I'll take a look at your file tomorrow to see if I find anything funny going on.

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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Shaping the load profile makes for nothing more than pretty lines on a data log that are irrelevant.
> 
> What also needs to be reviewed is why the boost actual is so much higher than requested.
> 
> ...


If it's going to full load because the VE map is maxed out it will cause all sorts of stupid corrections along with making drivability suffer. I brought my load within 15 of maximum and it drives like a whole different car at part throttle. 

I run E85 and I don't use the no timing mod. I think it's half ass no matter what you're using.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> If it's going to full load because the VE map is maxed out it will cause all sorts of stupid corrections along with making drivability suffer. I brought my load within 15 of maximum and it drives like a whole different car at part throttle.
> 
> I run E85 and I don't use the no timing mod. I think it's half ass no matter what you're using.


What 'full load because the VE is maxed out' are you talking about? All max VE does is provide a safety net, that's it. It plays no part in load calculations. Either provide data or show documentation from the FR, because that's the equivalent to saying one toilet paper wipes my ass better than another.

Look at his boost actual, it's way ****ed up. Max VE isn't the issue here. Target filling isn't right.

That timing mod is a good way to squeeze every last bit of power out, but should be best done on something other than pump gas.



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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> What 'full load because the VE is maxed out' are you talking about? All max VE does is provide a safety net, that's it. *It plays no part in load calculations.* Either provide data or show documentation from the FR, because that's the equivalent to saying one toilet paper wipes my ass better than another.
> 
> *Look at his boost actual, it's way ****ed up. Max VE isn't the issue here. Target filling isn't right.*
> 
> ...


Here we go, if VE has no role then why is his req load 258 compared to the TQ maps and the VE... Oh and he's always over the rpm where VE load maxes out.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Requested load=Max ve 
Boost requested=Target filling.

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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

requested load does not = max ve. Load spec will = max VE. Load spec is not requested load. Anyone have a link to Poodys log? What tapp did with these files is a crude way of setting up Target filling and optimal torque but I feel it was the way he chose to go when setting up a off the shelf type base file.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

I posted a link to my log on the last page, but here it is again :thumbup:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9fej8UQof0iekhSU3BRN3VqR1Y2TEtZTnQzVTlQcV9QS3Q0/edit?usp=sharing

DMVDUB is sending me a new file to try out which hopefully will resolve the whacked out fueling, Timing CF has been addressed already


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

how much boost are you running on this log? You maybe running into the load limiter based on continuous knock... unless tapp maxed that out aswell but I dont think he did. Either way you clearly maxing out the map so I'm sure its well above 22psi. I'm sure once DMV dials in the fuel and timing, rl will be much better(but that doesn't matter because you must be running an aftermarket boost controller). Hopefully he can setup your target filling and optimal torque as well.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Boost was ~33psi. How does the load limit implement itself? My throttle stays wide open the entire time and the ECU is adding fuel just to hit target lambda.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

You need to invest in a lottery ticket after 12* of correction at .82 lambda under 33psi. :laugh:


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

1.8t is invincible (knock on wood).

On my old injectors I had my wastegate pressure line melt and freeboosted the turbo in the middle of a datalog. Maxed 630s showed 17:1 afr ~35 psi.

There is a god in heaven that wants this engine to live :laugh:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> requested load does not = max ve. Load spec will = max VE. Load spec is not requested load. Anyone have a link to Poodys log? What tapp did with these files is a crude way of setting up Target filling and optimal torque but I feel it was the way he chose to go when setting up a off the shelf type base file.


If you knock max 've down that's how it shows in the logs.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

your request is ~ 1600mbar, your n75 is clearly cut out of the equation, your hitting over 2500mbar. Point is there is no limiter your running into, only problem is with fueling and timing. Unless your saying your using the n75 and want less boost, in that case you'll have to work with dialing in target filling and optimal torque. I don't see any issues with actual load.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> If you knock max 've down that's how it shows in the logs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Are you sure LDRXNZK doesn't have a separate measuring block? If we new what rl was maybe that could help. Does poody have the n75 plugged in?


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Boost is controlled through an MBC :thumbup:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> your request is ~ 1600mbar, your n75 is clearly cut out of the equation, your hitting over 2500mbar. Point is there is no limiter your running into, only problem is with fueling and timing. Unless your saying your using the n75 and want less boost, in that case you'll have to work with dialing in target filling and optimal torque. I don't see any issues with actual load.


I'd have to double check the FR, but I'm pretty sure boost actual going over requested is a no-no.

Something is amiss here regardless.



Budsdubbin said:


> Are you sure LDRXNZK doesn't have a separate measuring block? If we new what rl was maybe that could help. Does poody have the n75 plugged in?


Either Rey or Gonzo said it's not usually enabled on the 1.8t files.



Poody said:


> Boost is controlled through an MBC :thumbup:


Is the n75 plugged in? Pretty sure it has to be, but that I'm unsure of



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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

n75 is not plugged in or resistored, hasn't been since I threw my turbo kit on, never had any major issues with fueling etc until now


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Plug it in, I think they can be resistored, but again ask others

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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Plug it in, I think they can be resistored, but again ask others
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Plug it in and jam it in the "waterfall"


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> I'd have to double check the FR, but I'm pretty sure boost actual going over requested is a no-no.
> 
> Something is amiss here regardless.
> 
> ...



Ok I wasn't sure what you were getting at before but now I understand... Yes he is overshooting request. But based on his actual load, I do not see a limiter in play on the load request side. Boost request is a different story. If by "not enabled" they mean its maxed like LDRXN then yes I've seen that on some files but I can't see him taking the time to legitimately code that out on stage 3 files. 



Poody said:


> n75 is not plugged in or resistored, hasn't been since I threw my turbo kit on, never had any major issues with fueling etc until now


I had a feeling you'd say that. lol plug it in that can pertain to request boost.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

You know I just realized something....

The ~1500mb his car is trying to run is limp mode, roughly 7 psi.

Makes sense since his n75 isn't plugged in.

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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> You know I just realized something....
> 
> The ~1500mb his car is trying to run is limp mode, roughly 7 psi.
> 
> ...


Good Catch


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> You know I just realized something....
> 
> The ~1500mb his car is trying to run is limp mode, roughly 7 psi.
> 
> ...



:thumbup: Although when I was experiencing limp it would limit not only boost request but also throttle position as well. Even with a boost controller I could only hit around 7-9psi without the n75 plugged in so the fact he can still overshoot 2500mbar kinda left me puzzled. That was before the torque model influence mod though so perhaps that had something to do with it.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

N75 is plugged in and boost request is back up where it should be :thumbup:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Poody said:


> N75 is plugged in and boost request is back up where it should be :thumbup:


Post some logs

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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Matt is helping me get it all figured out ATM. Not sure if it was having the n75 plugged in or the last file he edited for me but off boost response is definitely much better. Feels like he programmed virtual cocaine into my ECU. :laugh: No joke. Boost is lowered to 20 PSI for the time being, but at this boost level, it feels the same as 25psi used to. We will see what happens to fueling when boost goes up since that's where my original problem occurred but so far I'm loving every second I spend driving this machine :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::heart:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

anything that brings your o2 correction and timing pull within reason will be a vast improvement from the mess you started with :laugh:


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

No isht haha. In my defense that kind of correction only ever happened on ridiculous boost levels. Normally I run ~25psi

Either way, the tune I'm running now is much better than the crap that created that horrific data log a couple days ago. From here on out, I will refer to Matt as "Maestro 7 Jesus"


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

Just bringing this out there. If anyone has trouble installing updates. Run maestro as administrator first. Fixed my problem. Also, windows 8 users, if your program is not running, go to properties >compatability>check run in compatibility mode> click windows 7 or whatever you have, then try again. Jmust throwing this out there because I almost had a heart attack thinking I couldn't run it and I was searching everywhere and couldn't find anything lol, well here it is. 

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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

MAF....   


opcorn: :wave:


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

Poody said:


> N75 is plugged in and boost request is back up where it should be :thumbup:


This here got me thinking, can the N75 be deleted and put a resistor in place or not?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Test the resistance of a working n75 and you'll know the resister to use. Wire it in and your done.


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

yeah! the 330ohm 10w resistor worked.. now it is time to do rods and lsd. lots of work ahead of me and barely any time to do it. 

Hopefully I can hit 400 wheel when I am done. And hopefully 400 wheel will be enough lol.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

PernellGTI said:


> yeah! the 330ohm 10w resistor worked.. now it is time to do rods and lsd. lots of work ahead of me and barely any time to do it.
> 
> Hopefully I can hit 400 wheel when I am done. And hopefully 400 wheel will be enough lol.


It will be fun for awhile. Your gonna want more eventually


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

One-Eight GTI said:


> It will be fun for awhile. Your gonna want more eventually


you might be very right, has been like that all the time, first chip and bolt ons, then the gt2860rs eliminator, then the gt2871r with atp manifold, now this... I am just wondering what turbo should I get, not that I am swimming in money but damn, it is never ending.

I was just reading your sig, how much power did you put down on that car? I ask because I really don't know if my hardware is enough for 400 wheel.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

I will be sending my gt3071 out to pagparts to become a GTX3071 and running the 750cc injectors. what is people thoughts on this turbo? likes or dislikes. what kind of power are people putting down? appreaciate the help in advance.

:beer::beer:


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

PernellGTI said:


> you might be very right, has been like that all the time, first chip and bolt ons, then the gt2860rs eliminator, then the gt2871r with atp manifold, now this... I am just wondering what turbo should I get, not that I am swimming in money but damn, it is never ending.
> 
> I was just reading your sig, how much power did you put down on that car? I ask because I really don't know if my hardware is enough for 400 wheel.


I have no clue, never had it dynoed... Matt is gonna help me tune it this spring so I should get alot more than I have now out of it... I will be geting it dynoed this spring/ early summer as I'm going E-85 this year and need that tuned on the Dyno, so will do a before and after dyno comparison betweeen pump and corn:thumbup:



SGTphatboy said:


> I will be sending my gt3071 out to pagparts to become a GTX3071 and running the 750cc injectors. what is people thoughts on this turbo? likes or dislikes. what kind of power are people putting down? appreaciate the help in advance.
> 
> :beer::beer:


If your interested before you buy the 750's I will be removing my 910cc from my car as I've just bought some bigger genesis injectors to run corn.. I bought these injectors from Arnold a few years back there a bosch ev-14 injector....

Instead of going GTX why not get Arnolds Billet wheel instead


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

One-Eight GTI said:


> I have no clue, never had it dynoed... Matt is gonna help me tune it this spring so I should get alot more than I have now out of it... I will be geting it dynoed this spring/ early summer as I'm going E-85 this year and need that tuned on the Dyno, so will do a before and after dyno comparison betweeen pump and corn:thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I already ordered his 750's based on his recommendations. we talked about the wheel, he suggested I go with this rout. basically its his wheel plus some of the GTX kit. unfortunately I do not know the full details, im sending his sending the turbo in a week.


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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm having some problems with my F21 with 550s. In 1st-3rd gear if I try to go into boost (around 3k) it will pop and backfire. 4-6th gear are fine. I can even downshift to 3rd around 50 mph, and I have zero issues. 

This even happens on the base file from Eurodyne. I've checked all my hoses and can't seem to see what the problem is.

Also, can someone please advise me on the BVLs and Injector Constant Forumla?

My STFT is at -1.1% and my Long Term is at 13.3% even after I've changed them down from the base file constant of 0.059385

Perhaps the weather being warmer is causing me to run lean on long term?


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

kueckerdj09 said:


> I'm having some problems with my F21 with 550s. In 1st-3rd gear if I try to go into boost (around 3k) it will pop and backfire. 4-6th gear are fine. I can even downshift to 3rd around 50 mph, and I have zero issues.
> 
> This even happens on the base file from Eurodyne. I've checked all my hoses and can't seem to see what the problem is.
> 
> ...


what spark plugs and what gap are you running? Also, what coilpacks do you have?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

kueckerdj09 said:


> I'm having some problems with my F21 with 550s. In 1st-3rd gear if I try to go into boost (around 3k) it will pop and backfire. 4-6th gear are fine. I can even downshift to 3rd around 50 mph, and I have zero issues.
> 
> This even happens on the base file from Eurodyne. I've checked all my hoses and can't seem to see what the problem is.
> 
> ...


If you have ev14 550s, and you long term is off that far then you either have a leak or a bad MAF.

If it was off around +/-5% then correcting injector constant is the correct solution, but +13% something is off by a mile.

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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> If you have ev14 550s, and you long term is off that far then you either have a leak or a bad MAF.
> 
> If it was off around +/-5% then correcting injector constant is the correct solution, but +13% something is off by a mile.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


I guess this sounds a lot like my previous problem, and after checking EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING yes, indeed, it was a leak, my intake manifold got slightly loose, I don't know how. My car would misfire every time exactly in the same RPM just as boost was coming on. Sorry, the coils and plugs response was just the typical vortex response lol.


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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> If you have ev14 550s, and you long term is off that far then you either have a leak or a bad MAF.
> 
> If it was off around +/-5% then correcting injector constant is the correct solution, but +13% something is off by a mile.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


I'll go over everything again and see what I can find. I corrected the injector constant a few times and this was the number that rose. Prior to this it was in the +/- range of 5%. I guess I figured I could make it better if I dropped it off more. 



PernellGTI said:


> I guess this sounds a lot like my previous problem, and after checking EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING yes, indeed, it was a leak, my intake manifold got slightly loose, I don't know how. My car would misfire every time exactly in the same RPM just as boost was coming on. Sorry, the coils and plugs response was just the typical vortex response lol.


I have Iridiums gapped to .028" and brand new (as of 2 weeks ago) revised 1.8t coilpacks. I'll check my manifold and everything out. Its just so odd that the first 3 gears something happens, but the 4th-6th it doesn't. All of the intercooler piping and the vacuum lines appear to be in good condition, no kinks, holes, or loose clamps.

The MAF is brand new with the F21 and its not idling poorly.
The N75 has been replaced with a correct one (I had a race valve prior to the new turbo).
The car has the EVAP/PCV etc. deleted so there's really not extra vacuum lines to miss.


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## one_fast_vw (Feb 10, 2011)

Hey guys I just bought a car with maestro and it didn't come with cable how would I go about getting a new one.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Contact eurodyne

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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

is anyone running a gtx3071 with 750cc injectors? thoughts? what are you seeing for power?


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

SGTphatboy said:


> is anyone running a gtx3071 with 750cc injectors? thoughts? what are you seeing for power?


i am working on getting my motor setup with gtx3071r and 1000cc injectors. few weeks and ill be able to tell you how it worked out for me. :laugh:


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

carsluTT said:


> i am working on getting my motor setup with gtx3071r and 1000cc injectors. few weeks and ill be able to tell you how it worked out for me. :laugh:


right on and thank you. I should be out logging mine in a couple weeks as well


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

You could try closing the GAP on the plugs to .023 and see if the ignition brake up in 3rd gear under heavy load goes away.
I wouldn't go any closer then that.
:beer::beer:


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## Arsin (Apr 4, 2008)

So I just got my cable and software from Eurodyne. I was looking at the provided stage files specifically the Stage 2 base file but it says it's for 4 bar FPR. I am still running the stock 3 bar and wondering if I have to switch to a 4 bar?

My current setup is a front mount intercooler, full 3" turbo back exhaust, 2.0T ignition coils, and cone filter.

Just looking for some advice to get started with playing around with tuning.

I'm currently building a 2.1L stroked engine with a GTX3071R, Integrated Engineering intake manifold, 1mm over sized exhaust and intake valves and will tune that once it's fully built and in the car.


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

Arsin said:


> So I just got my cable and software from Eurodyne. I was looking at the provided stage files specifically the Stage 2 base file but it says it's for 4 bar FPR. I am still running the stock 3 bar and wondering if I have to switch to a 4 bar?
> 
> My current setup is a front mount intercooler, full 3" turbo back exhaust, 2.0T ignition coils, and cone filter.
> 
> ...


In Maestro 7, under injector wizard. You can adjust injector size, fuel pressure etc.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Just change the injector constant back to stock.


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## Arsin (Apr 4, 2008)

PernellGTI said:


> In Maestro 7, under injector wizard. You can adjust injector size, fuel pressure etc.


I was looking at that but not quite sure how it all works.

I guess the wizard sets up the Injector constant and that modifies the settings for everything else in the fueling area.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

You need the 4bar. It's a half ass way to increase injector size so they have enough headroom to run stage 2 power levels

When your ready to setup the tune post up. Most of us here are pretty well versed with Maestro and can set you on the right path to making power, safely.:thumbup:

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## Arsin (Apr 4, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> You need the 4bar. It's a half ass way to increase injector size so they have enough headroom to run stage 2 power levels
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Not quite sure what you mean by half ass way to increase injector size and headroom.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Arsin said:


> Not quite sure what you mean by half ass way to increase injector size and headroom.


Increasing base pressure essentially raises the injector's rated flow, thus giving you more fuel for more power.


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## Arsin (Apr 4, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> Increasing base pressure essentially raises the injector's rated flow, thus giving you more fuel for more power.


I understand that but I don't understand your previous post. I know a 4 bar allows more fuel to the injectors but wouldn't the injector constant allow the injectors to allow for more fuel at a lower fuel pressure?

You are saying that increasing the injector constant is a half ass way of increasing the duty cycle at a lower pressure?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Arsin said:


> I understand that but I don't understand your previous post. I know a 4 bar allows more fuel to the injectors but wouldn't the injector constant allow the injectors to allow for more fuel at a lower fuel pressure?
> 
> You are saying that increasing the injector constant is a half ass way of increasing the duty cycle at a lower pressure?


More pressure is essentially just giving you a bigger injector for cheap. For a moderate bump in power that's all that's needed unlike with bigger turbos you need a much bigger injector. For example I run 550s on 93 at 25+ psi and when I run e85 I run at 4.5bar making the injectors perform like a 700cc injector.


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## Arsin (Apr 4, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> More pressure is essentially just giving you a bigger injector for cheap. For a moderate bump in power that's all that's needed unlike with bigger turbos you need a much bigger injector. For example I run 550s on 93 at 25+ psi and when I run e85 I run at 4.5bar making the injectors perform like a 700cc injector.


I'm staying with the stock K03s so I don't need bigger injectors and didn't think I would need a 4bar FPR. I think I will be safe with just the 3bar and the stage 2 tune.

When I do the full build I will be running larger injectors and a high FPR.

Thanks for the advice.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Make sure you find a pump that will flow at those pressures. 4.5bar base pressure + 1.7bar boost is 6.2bar. Find out what your fuel pump flow at that pressure.


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## Arsin (Apr 4, 2008)

Gulfstream said:


> Make sure you find a pump that will flow at those pressures. 4.5bar base pressure + 1.7bar boost is 6.2bar. Find out what your fuel pump flow at that pressure.


I'm guessing that was a reply to DMVDUB?


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

So my fuel trims are +1.5 +2.9

My issue is my requested afr is not being satisfied once I'm on boost what map do I make the correction on as changing my injector constant would affect the whole fueling map which all I need to do is add about 4% between 4k and 7200 rpm

I'm requesting 11.5 and getting 12 this is a new issue since I put my id1000's in 


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I would not touch injector constant or bvc

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

WiKKiDTT said:


> So my fuel trims are +1.5 +2.9
> 
> My issue is my requested afr is not being satisfied once I'm on boost what map do I make the correction on as changing my injector constant would affect the whole fueling map which all I need to do is add about 4% between 4k and 7200 rpm
> 
> ...


As always, post a log and your file.

If requested isnt meeting actual, and corrections are over +25% then perhaps your fuel pump isnt keeping up

Main fuel correction or injection correction are used to fine tune things to minimize 02 corrections, and power enrichment/full load lambda are target lambda maps.

Also, 11.5 is 0.78 lambda, which is right on the cusp or past the limit of what the ecu can control.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> As always, post a log and your file.
> 
> If requested isnt meeting actual, and corrections are over +25% then perhaps your fuel pump isnt keeping up
> 
> ...


O2 corrections at max are 6% I have a 225 TT with a inline walbro running a 3bar FPR with ID1000's


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

If your actual load is hitting close too or at 191% then do the corrections in the injection correction map. :thumbup:


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> If your actual load is hitting close too or at 191% then do the corrections in the injection correction map. :thumbup:


My actual load is 210

I made the adjustments in injection correction and looks to be good now. I added 4% in the area needed and 1% before the area needed to smooth it out. Also what is the default number that should be in those blocks. 


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> If your actual load is hitting close too or at 191% then do the corrections in the injection correction map. :thumbup:





WiKKiDTT said:


> My actual load is 210
> 
> I made the adjustments in injection correction and looks to be good now. I added 4% in the area needed and 1% before the area needed to smooth it out. Also what is the default number that should be in those blocks.
> 
> ...


Post a log 

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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

[Q UOTE=Dave926;85258088]Post a log 

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Will post in about 20 mins



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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

https://drive.google.com/a/malanass...w?id=0B6pxnTiInFr6NmdKSjFHR2hEZWs&usp=sharing

There's a third gear and partial 4th this is before the corrections I made


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

WiKKiDTT said:


> https://drive.google.com/a/malanass...w?id=0B6pxnTiInFr6NmdKSjFHR2hEZWs&usp=sharing
> 
> There's a third gear and partial 4th this is before the corrections I made
> 
> ...


Just what I suspected.

Your requested AFR is richer than what the ecu can control. Fixing either injection correction or main load to for actual to meet requested is not always going to work.

Any particular reason your running it that rich? Regardless its costing you power no matter how you look at it.

Being that rich really only gets you that extra timing because flame speed begins to slow down, making the engine less prone to knock.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Just what I suspected.
> 
> Your requested AFR is richer than what the ecu can control. Fixing either injection correction or main load to for actual to meet requested is not always going to work.
> 
> ...



We are gonna start leaning it out and use the new map to add fuel under knock. Glad he enabled that for us. I'm at a steady 11.7 on full boost now which feels a lot better. I just want to have a safe tune that I have the ability to beat on and not worry about any failure. I'll keep uploading my logs as we push the car further. 


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

On the new map I assume we add to it to add fuel under knock correct?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

12.3:1 to 12.5:1 under boost... 14.7+ cruise... 

'nuff said. :wave:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

WiKKiDTT said:


> We are gonna start leaning it out and use the new map to add fuel under knock. Glad he enabled that for us. I'm at a steady 11.7 on full boost now which feels a lot better. I just want to have a safe tune that I have the ability to beat on and not worry about any failure. I'll keep uploading my logs as we push the car further.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





WiKKiDTT said:


> On the new map I assume we add to it to add fuel under knock correct?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There's another map that coincides with that, that tapp has not enabled.

I've asked him 3 or 4 times via email, but we all know how that goes. It's KFLAMKRL anyways if you want to try and ask.

By having that we can do some pretty cool stuff with a variable target lambda under multiple conditions.

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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> There's another map that coincides with that, that tapp has not enabled.
> 
> I've asked him 3 or 4 times via email, but we all know how that goes. It's KFLAMKRL anyways if you want to try and ask.
> 
> ...


I can think of a number of maps that would be nice to have... There IS a reason he doesn't open those features to us and it isn't the hassle of writing it into Maestro (since it probably already is, and isn't visible). I would just like to know why we only get this "amateur" version of the software. If someone spent enough time with writing a program to fully take advantage of this ecu we could have features that are almost limitless. Deleted sensors and solenoids could be controlled by the ecu for example making WMI a built in feature of a file. You could use load / rpm based tables to use nitrous to spool a BAT all from the ecu making it a flawless window switch. 

I've said it before, it's going to take money or competition to make him actually give us a REAL update. 

On the note of things not quite right, I've been playing with the TQ maps more and the ones that are in the base files seem like a "dirty" way of doing it. I know requesting a ton more load is what everyone else does but I like to see my data match (as close as possible) to what my requests are. I know people will say it make no difference other than pretty logs, but it's just not true. When my requests are closely matched to the actual the response is more linear as well as the corrections are more sensible. Take it or leave it. We all have our own ways of doing things...

If he really wants to do something cool, make a Maestro app for IOS and Android. I love using my spare android to monitor the O2 sensor as well as a slew of other things without having to add more gauges. Oh, and being able to switch programs by device or however would be a plus too... APR is doing it and they're asshats...


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Only thing I'm going to say is post data to prove your point about matching torque maps. 

Lowering them is capping the engine's potential output, which is where your getting that 'smooth' feeling. On a hybrid setup, yea maybe it's a good idea.

End of the day, it's not going to make a difference on peak output.

Having that knock fueling map enabled would be great.

Fuel the car for the initial hit.

Give a little extra based on knock to keep it under control.

Heavy enrichment for when your deep into BTS when your well into 4th gear.

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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

DMVDUB said:


> There IS a reason he doesn't open those features to us and it isn't the hassle of writing it into Maestro (since it probably already is, and isn't visible).


and what is that reason? 

are there really 8000+ maps as one APR employee stated? 



DMVDUB said:


> I've said it before, it's going to take money or competition to make him actually give us a REAL update.


the ~$800 for each tuning suite should be enough you would think...


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Lol idk about 8000+ maps but there's a lot of them. I've had to seek out roughly 15-20 different maps to get my first stage 2 file going. Proper big turbo file needs like 30-40+ maps.

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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

when ctapp enables a map, does that equate to a new Maestro release available to all? if so then that only serves to enhance the value of the product because current Maestro owners will provide great word-of-mouth recommendations. I can't see how this wouldn't be a good thing overall, if this is indeed the case.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I believe the number is around 350.

A good portion of them are emissions related, and are of no good use to us.

There's only a few others that we really need. FWD cars could really use a gear based load control. 

And knock based fueling 

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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> There's only a few others that we really need. FWD cars could really use a gear based load control.
> 
> And knock based fueling


these seem like a no-brainer to open up for use. what am i missing? is it because these maps are at different memory locations depending on the ECU? if its not that, then what?

what about an online petition to at least show mister tapp that the demand is there even if only a few of those people actually contacted him about it


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

i found that post about 8000+ maps, and i made a mistake. i believe the APR rep was talking about MED9/MED17. is there any legitimacy to his claim in that case?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I don't know his approach to locating maps, he may have software capable of locating maps of similar layouts or he may go in manually to locate them. Either way for each ecu# and software version maps are usually not located in the same places/different offsets/factors. So no it isn't as easy as looking up a map in a drop down list or directory.

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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

8000+ maps I guess if your counting EVERYTHING like scalers/emissions/abs/tractioncontrol/transmissioncontol/lighting/the list goes on forever. I'm sure he wasn't referring to the maps needed for tuning. 

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Well.....the manual from Bosch for me7 is 1800 pages.

I've heard med9 is 4500.

Med17 wouldn't surprise me if it was more.

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

As far as different software versions, that's not the issue. 

Finding maps by pattern when you have a fully defined one is pretty simple

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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Finding a pattern is somewhat easy sure if you know what to look for a good amount of the maps I found were just a leap of faith but some maps can look slightly different or have a different resolution. My point was you cannot use the same address for maps on different ecu # and all software versions. It is not universal. 

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

No, but the pattern is usually very, very similar if not identical

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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Alright dudes, I'm still trying to figure out my fueling problems. For those that don't know, Im running leaner than I would like under high boost, around 14:1 AFR at above 25 psi. My original post is on pg 155 of this thread.

I just finished throwing an 044 pump in place of my walbro, and it didnt solve my issue. I've tried multiple methods of adding fuel to my tune and I still hit the same lambda under WOT regardless. This leads me to believe it is a hardware issue, not an issue with my tune. I'm still using the stock fuel lines, which I've read are restrictive above 400whp. Last trip to the dyno my car made about 425 at the wheels, and my setup has improved slightly since then. Is it possible that my fuel lines are where the issue lies? I purchased a roll of 3/8 stainless fuel line that I eventually plan to use, but I would prefer to wait until summer to start playing with that if at all possible.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Fuel lines and injector rail 

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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

:thumbup: Cool. Whats the easiest way to run bigger lines? Surge tank with stock lines for feed and overflow and then 3/8 line to and from the rail? Just running 3/8 from the 044 outlet to the rail seems pointless when its still drawing through the factory feed line.

Also, I can't see any way to throw a bigger feed line on the stock pump so if that's even possible, links would be helpful and appreciated. I haven't found much with my searches. 



Blegh... I really don't feel like spending another $400 on fueling bits


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Have you changed the fuel filter? Is this on pump or e85? How old is your intank pump? Did the fueling get better when you tried a lower boost setting?

Maybe the stock pump isn't able to keep up with the flow demands of the inline pump ... Try swapping one from a buddies car and see if that helps... For 425whp on pump gas the 1000's should be more than adequate. If e85 then you may need more fuel pressure to keep up with flow demands.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Fuel filter is probably 20k old now that I think about it. Only ever ran pump gas, so the 044 should be able to push plenty of fuel for my requirements. My thinking was the walbro couldn't flow enough fuel for 450hp at 80psi rail pressure, and that was why I only experienced leanness under higher boost. Intank pump is stock and 130k old, but I don't have any buddies who could switch me pumps, and I don't think the wife would appreciate me stealing the pump from her "new" mk4 Jetta. Plus that pump has 20k more than mine. Fueling does get better at lower boost settings, my daily 25 psi is working pretty well as far as WOT fueling is concerned, only goes :screwy: when I crank the boost.

Now the question is, where do I start? I could be looking at restrictive fuel lines, or a weak intank pump correct?

Fuel filter isn't really an issue because i can swap that out in 5 minutes for $10, but how likely is it that mine is clogged already?


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

spartiati said:


> Have you changed the fuel filter? Is this on pump or e85? How old is your intank pump? Did the fueling get better when you tried a lower boost setting?
> 
> Maybe the stock pump isn't able to keep up with the flow demands of the inline pump ... Try swapping one from a buddies car and see if that helps... For 425whp on pump gas the 1000's should be more than adequate. If e85 then you may need more fuel pressure to keep up with flow demands.


I had a failing intank pump feeding an inline and it was giving me all kinds of issues.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

With 120k on the pump I would suspect that may be tired and need some refreshing. I would just try and swap the entire pump and assembly from your wife's car to your car. Maybe that pump is in better condition. 10 minute swap that's free to try just to confirm. Also the walbro would have been sufficient for 450whp. Even the stock lines. Not saying there is no benefit in upgrading to a larger line, but shouldn't be priority at this point. My friends car supported 540whp on stock everything(in tank pump and lines) with a walbro and massive injectors. He had similar issues to you at higher boost levels. Swapped my intank pump to test it and problem was gone.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

I see. Most other platforms suggest 3/8 line for anything over 400hp and there really isn't much on the vortex in the way of upgraded fuel lines and when it should be done, so I figured it was a possible cause. Like I said I have a 50' roll of stainless fuel line that I will use eventually but if I don't need to get that done then I will definitely wait for some dry weather. 

As for replacing my in tank pump, what would the community recommend? ECS has pumps for $100-250 depending on the brand, and I don't know if I should trust the off brand pumps with my high boost application. Should I risk pulling a factory pump from the local auto wreckers, or just suck it up and pay for the new DW e85 pump and ditch the inline?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Well my problems wernt just wot at 18+ psi on 30r with walbro but also idle pressure would bounce around while the fuel trims would struggle to keep up. Inclines run full steam at idle the way most on here wire them so imagine the size of your lines with a stock fpr trying to bypass all that volume and keep rail pressure consistent. 

I'm sure some have lucked out with the walbros on stock lines (was he running 1000cc injectors? - spartiati) but let's say a setup with 450whp running an injector time of like 10-13ms at full load on 1000cc's. Walbro running 100% at all times each time the injector sprays a large volume of fuel leaves the stock rail pressure will drop and the pump has to catch back up for the next injector. Forcing that volume through 5/16 line and a fuel rail designed for 380cc injectors feeding 1000cc's is a lot of work for that pump. I don't see a walbro lasting vary long on a setup like that. 

To ensure the pumps longevity id suggest running a proper fuel delivery. 

Also I switched my 255 for a 044 same setup inline with stock everything had same issues with idle and wot above 18+psi until I revamped my fuel delivery. 

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Correct he was on a stock fuel line... I dont recommend it but it is possible...

I have no experience with any of the ecs fuel pumps... When the DW pump comes in the mail I could give you a good deal on my USRT genesis 1 pump if you haven't bought anything until then. Pm me if anything...


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

hey guys, I've been lurking on here for awhile, made a few posts, nothing serious. but now its time to get serious, I think. im gonna try to not ramble too much, please forgive me if I do. just a little info, built my car last spring. awp block, forged rods, aeb pistons, aeb head, stock intake, cams. gone through a coupe different turbos, currently running the CTS turbo kit with a PTE 50trim(5431 to be exact). been running eurodyne maestro with no issues, running the siemens 870cc injectors/tune. running mafless due to BOV and that fact my maf sensor decided to crap out on me. but I know that im leaving god knows how much power on the table from no tuning done to the car. it runs ok, and by ok I mean it runs. just not the smoothest. I know some tuning will help/cure that. now I don't completely understand everything that maestro will do but I do know how to operate the system and work around it. just wondering if one or a couple of you guys would be willing to help me get a good grasp on it and get a good file setup for the car. its either that, or sell the maestro and buy a uni tune. I'd rather keep maestro, but I know that without any help I would never get out of my car what I really want to. plus with maestro furthering my modifications is a lot easier as i'll have access to much more than with an out of the box tune. anyways, like I said. if I could chat with some of you, maybe run a few of my data logs by you guys or something, that would be awesome. thanks


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

I would recommend reading up on the unofficial maestro tuning handbook thread to get an idea of what each map is an how it effects the car. 

Rac337 also has a good mafless tuning guide that will get you started. Make sure to read the info about dialing in alpha n on the second page of that thread as well. 

If you want someone to tune for you, talk to Matt (DMVDUB) and he will get you squared away. He does charge for his tuning services but I can vouch for his skills. It's worth it :thumbup:

I'm willing to help you out if you want. I'm not as skilled as some of the other guys here but I know my way around the software and can probably get your tune smoothed out for ya.

Either way, this thread is the place to be. Try to get started on you own and post here if you run into issues.


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

booster_ginster98 said:


> maybe run a few of my data logs by you guys or something, that would be awesome


if you post up your logs, i think that's probably going to net you the most helpful responses


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

PM me your email booster


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

Yeah I intend to spend as much time reading and trying to understand what to do as far as adjustments and which maps to change etc. tuning is new to me but everything else is like second nature. As always love how helpful everyone in here is. Ill likely be in here daily. 

And Dave, sending pm now


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Budsdubbin said:


> Well my problems wernt just wot at 18+ psi on 30r with walbro but also idle pressure would bounce around while the fuel trims would struggle to keep up. Inclines run full steam at idle the way most on here wire them so imagine the size of your lines with a stock fpr trying to bypass all that volume and keep rail pressure consistent.
> 
> *How would you recommend wiring an inline pump to prevent it from running so hard at idle?*
> 
> ...





formerly silveratljetta said:


> I had a failing intank pump feeding an inline and it was giving me all kinds of issues.
> 
> *What kind of problems were you having?*




Everyone feel free to chime in, I'm just trying to make the decision of whether or not to go grab a junk yard pump and toss that in the car to see if it makes a difference. I don't have $500 to spend on a new rail, FPR, and fittings so the cheapest part that makes sense is the route I have to go at this time. Trying to get this all squared away for a dyno day hopefully this month. If ClutchNet ever decides to ship me my f%$ing clutch that is...


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Wiring in a progressive controller like boost manager from eurodyne that manages the pump with a table setup by your input duty cycle could help with idle but wot with stock lines/fuelrail on 1000cc I don't see working out for vary long. I brushed over my reasoning for that in the last post I guess I need to find a different way of explaining it but I aint got the time fo dat right meow. I'll get back to ya


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Poody said:


> Everyone feel free to chime in, I'm just trying to make the decision of whether or not to go grab a junk yard pump and toss that in the car to see if it makes a difference. I don't have $500 to spend on a new rail, FPR, and fittings so the cheapest part that makes sense is the route I have to go at this time. Trying to get this all squared away for a dyno day hopefully this month. If ClutchNet ever decides to ship me my f%$ing clutch that is...



:laugh:...... because I was in the same position last year having vary little knowledge about how a important a proper fuel delivery is setup for big injectors. I was in denial myself for a while until a ponied up the cash and trust me it isn't cheap. :laugh:

USRT's intank option might be a cheaper option but your still looking at 3/8 fuel lines/fittings/FPRoradaptor/RAIL


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

I think I got it all squared away with a new in tank pump.

Ever since my initial install, I noticed my walbro pump growing louder, and just assumed it was my mounting clamps loosening or something. Its been unbearably loud for the last month or so. I read reports and data that stated that the 044 should be quieter than the walbro 255, but when I first installed my 044 and started the engine, my first thought was, "Dear God that pump is even louder..."

I think my in tank pump was shot, because after swapping in a new one, my 044 is barely audible under all driving conditions. I have yet to log a high boost run due to my laptop battery only holding a charge for about 5min at a time, but I'll post back in an hour or so with my findings. 

Then hopefully next month I'll try to get started on fabbing up parts for a new fuel rail and everything


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

alright guys, planning on going for a little cruise in the morning to get some data logs. my question is what sort of driving should I do and how long should each log be? thanks


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Get a nice WOT log by itself and post that here. 3rd or 4th gear depending on how your traction is, 2500-redline, traction control off. 

For your other logging, it depends on the map that your are tweaking. For example, if you are dialing in the Injection Correction map, you want to hit as many combinations of injector on time and engine RPM as you can, because that is what the map uses as its axes. Basically, you want to cover as many different load vs RPM conditions as you can for most fuel and timing edits that you will be making. Get some nice part throttle acceleration up to 5 or 6k, get some idle, get some WOT. If you just drive the car how you would normally drive it your tune should be fine.

As far as length goes, the longer the log, the more data your histogram has, and the more accurate your tune will be. You can take one 30 minute log, or 10 5 minute logs, whatever you feel like doing. Then just copy/paste them all together in a spreadsheet and you're all set. 

Make sure before you start logging to:
1: Let the car reach full operating temp
2: Ensure that O2 corrections have kicked on (Open maestro logger and before hitting Start, make sure the O2 correction box isn't staying at 0.00)
3: If you are making edits to a fuel correction map (Flowmeter Correction/AlphaN/Injection correction/Main fuel - not Injector constant or BVC table), unplug the n80 solenoid to disable fuel trims

Follow those directions and you should have some pretty solid logs to work off of. Anyone have something to add to that?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Almost correct.

Keep the n80 plugged in for a few days and check block 32 values and adjust injector constant/bvc accordingly.

Injection correction map sucks. Use that when your over 22psi.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Right. Thsts why I made the note of leaving it plugged in for those adjustments. It's still advisable to disable trims for logging after BVC and IC have been taken care of yes?

Also, what map do you recommend for part throttle fueling tweaks being that he is MAFless? I've only ever heard praise for Injection correction due to its high resolution. It should be especially useful to him near idle since he is using Siemens injectors which aren't even close to linear in the idle pulsewidth range.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

For idle speeds use injection correction.

With a stock induction setup the alpha n maps can be left alone, as those are primarily a "pre boost" sort of thing.

If your bvc is set correctly, along with injector constant not much "tweaking" should really be necessary, even mafless.


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

Kind of a strange thing happened yesterday. I activated 2 step and after I re flashed my ecu got a p0606 error code. Flashed it back the thr previous tune and it was fine. Any ideas? Just wondering if maybe the error code has something to do with the 2 step or if it was just bad luck.


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

polska_ts said:


> Kind of a strange thing happened yesterday. I activated 2 step and after I re flashed my ecu got a p0606 error code. Flashed it back the thr previous tune and it was fine. Any ideas? Just wondering if maybe the error code has something to do with the 2 step or if it was just bad luck.


try to enable 2 step again and see if it errors


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Is that the ecm error code?


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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

Ya every time I re flash I check for error codes and this is the only one that came up when I flashed the 2 step file on.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Possibly a hiccup in the checksum corrections. Send a log of next flash to tapp. 

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## polska_ts (Jun 21, 2009)

Sounds good thanks guys ill try it again. In the past its messed up cuz I tapped it woth my foot or something but ill try and flash it again and see what happens.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Just clear the code, it won't come back.

Happens sometimes when you use Quicktune but it's really a false code.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Can someone please post their modified alpha N and throttle body v airflow maps for an 80mm hemi throttle body car. I need to get my car running again.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Richie PM me your file and a nice long set of logs.

I'll give you some direction to get you going


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Can someone please post their modified alpha N and throttle body v airflow maps for an 80mm hemi throttle body car. I need to get my car running again.


I'd like to see that as well. Going from 70-80mm myself soon...


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Gulfstream said:


> I'd like to see that as well. Going from 70-80mm myself soon...


I was thinking about this quantitatively and an 80mm throttle plate is 25% more surface area than a 70mm. Why not just increase alpha N and the throttle angle v airflow maps by 25% and see where that gets you?


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> I was thinking about this quantitatively and an 80mm throttle plate is 25% more surface area than a 70mm. Why not just increase alpha N and the throttle angle v airflow maps by 25% and see where that gets you?


Well, it's not that simples. The different size TB influences flow through the engine in their own ways at various rpms and loads. 

I'll just have to map it in like I did with the 70mm TB. 

Another factor is that all our engines are different. Never the same flow at any given RPM/load.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Gulfstream said:


> Well, it's not that simples. The different size TB influences flow through the engine in their own ways at various rpms and loads.
> 
> I'll just have to map it in like I did with the 70mm TB.
> 
> Another factor is that all our engines are different. Never the same flow at any given RPM/load.


Would it get someone in the ballpark before doing actual logging with a MAF?


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

He finally added the other map for fuel enrich under knock. Update to the latest to use it


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Can someone please post their modified alpha N and throttle body v airflow maps for an 80mm hemi throttle body car. I need to get my car running again.





Gulfstream said:


> I'd like to see that as well. Going from 70-80mm myself soon...





formerly silveratljetta said:


> I was thinking about this quantitatively and an 80mm throttle plate is 25% more surface area than a 70mm. Why not just increase alpha N and the throttle angle v airflow maps by 25% and see where that gets you?





Gulfstream said:


> Well, it's not that simples. The different size TB influences flow through the engine in their own ways at various rpms and loads.
> 
> I'll just have to map it in like I did with the 70mm TB.
> 
> Another factor is that all our engines are different. Never the same flow at any given RPM/load.


Its really simple you guys are overcomplicating it, and you wont need a MAF to do it.

For a given target lambda (1.00) you need 'X' amount of air.

Drive normal, no boost, and plot the Alpha N log with the trace parameter set to 02 corrections. Adjust the numbers accordingly to minimize corrections, say under +/-2%, then dial it in the rest of the way with main fuel correction. Regenerate your Throttle Angle vs Airflow, apply the axis values.

Rinse and repeat till corrections are minimized.



WiKKiDTT said:


> He finally added the other map for fuel enrich under knock. Update to the latest to use it
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



He did, but the axis values are all ****ed up, so do not use that map until he fixes it. KFLAMKR needs to be engine speed vs timing pull, not whatever **** he filled the map with


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Its really simple you guys are overcomplicating it, and you wont need a MAF to do it.
> 
> For a given target lambda (1.00) you need 'X' amount of air.
> 
> ...


Wish he would get it right the first time has anyone told him yet


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

WiKKiDTT said:


> Wish he would get it right the first time has anyone told him yet
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes.

I was the one harassing him to do it in the first place


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Can someone explain how much effect alpha N and TB v airflow tables have at idle speed?


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

Parker is hard parked lol

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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

They do play a part if they are off a good amount. Injection correction should be used to fine tune. 

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Affects mixture only.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Just my experience, it's more accurate to use O2 corrections from a couple of ms later for adjusting maps.

e.g. for a row, don't look at the O2 correction from the same row, but 2 or 3 rows downs. The correction you see on a row is really a response to a combustion event that happen some time before. 

This can been seen by using excel and a scatter type chart. As you delete the top row of corrections and move the cells below up in relation to the input (rl, or ti, etc), you should see the scatter chart get more clear/sharp.

As for tuning Alpha maps, you have to start with at least one known good variable. Be it a calibrated, MAF, or calibrated injectors. If not, you're pissing in the wind.

And keep in mind, MAFless above MAP limit means you have to fudge the Alpha map to read rich in areas where you see boost above MAP limit. That's because it will not have the benefit of correction factor for boost from MAP. 

Alpha map does not consider boost. So you fudge it and make it read rich. So when you are in boost above MAP limit it's adding the needed fuel. However, when you're below your peak boost, it will still read rich and O2 corrections with fall very low. But this only applies to areas where you see boost above limit.

Practical example.

Say me car can see 26psi by 5200 in WOT in 5th. If Alpha is calibrated right, it says X g/s flows over TB @ 5200 BEFORE boost (NA). MAP then adds (multiples really) that value base on MAP reading. That's good up until 22psi (most cars). Above that, MAP stops reading and caps it's correction multiplication, yet actual boost AND mass air continues to rise. That causes O2 corrections to rises.


Now say I fudge the Alpha and make it read enough mass air @ 5200 for 26psi (after MAP correction of 22psi) for O2 corrections to be near 0. Now any time I part throttle it up to 5200 and then go WOT, it will dump fuel and cause it to bog down until O2 corrections catch up.

my 0.2 cents


I'd love to see any logs from a a well tuned MAFless car running high boost that part-throttles it well into it's boost RPM, then slams the pedal down.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Why not just use the main fuel correction for area's above map barrier? For the most part all of the mafless setups I've seen read vary low rl. So main fuel should raise that until you max the load out then you can use IC to finalize it. I don't believe I had any noticeable results with tuning wot alpha.

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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Remind me, what's the input into maon fuel correction? inj time or rl?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

rl is the input. I forget the actual name for it in the documents according to tapp its output is corrected rl(rlsol?). So it's a multiplier for load correction based on input rl. Which makes sense to be why stock files I've seen have it flat at 1.0001 or no correction.

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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Here's the catch. Alpha is used to calc rl. If Alpha is not fudged, the rl never rises once MAP limit is reached. rl flat lines, or even drops and never reflectes the rising boost above MAP limit. So, how can you use rl to correct for boost it does not see? You end up doing the same type of fudging except on a different map. However, result's the same. Fudge for high boost, yet fueling will be off for < peak boost because rl input for that map will be the same for both situations. 6 one way and half dozen the other.


edit: Fudging main fuel correction would be better because it could limit the affected area to 22psi > x < peak boost. Where fudging Alpha would affect everything below peak boost (in fudged area of map that is).


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Ahh I see so your suggesting alpha n to be used for dialing in request boost @ or under 22 psi. Then above the limit use main fuel for the rest which makes sense to me. Although won't rl cap at 191%? It's been a while since I've played around with a 1.8t file that needed this so I can remember is that's the limit.

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

You know it just clicked about the map being a multiplier. Kind of makes sense with air density etc that all ties in with the efi class I took.

So Rey, your talking about adjusting those huge erroneous numbers that sit at the bottom of the map, and why they have such a huge value to,begin with


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

They arn't erroneous. 

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I really thought they were, as I thought after a certain pressure ratio the ecu went into unthrottled mode.

I'm going to Have to play with this.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Anything after ~54% throttle is not use on the alpha map. There is a limit map before throttle % is use as an input for alpha. 

The alpha maps (Alpha N and Throttle Angle Vs. Airflow) are only for <= 0psi ( out of boost ). There is a map that tells what throttle % per RPM will achieve 95% VE ( @ or right below 0psi ). in that map it has 54% throttle will achieve 95% VE @ 6000 RPM. Actual tps is compared to 54% and the lessor is used as the input for Alpha N. So, none of those huge numbers are use above the 54% node unless you've modified the 95% VE tps map. 

Once the ECU determines maf over Throttle plate up to 0psi via Alpha N, it then multiples it by a correction factor based on MAP.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Book marking this. Just got my gtx3071 TT up and moving. Having a few running issues. Looking for some help


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

elRey said:


> Anything after ~54% throttle is not use on the alpha map. There is a limit map before throttle % is use as an input for alpha.
> 
> The alpha maps are only for <= 0psi ( out of boost ). There is a map that tells what throttle % per RPM will achieve 95% VE ( @ or right below 0psi ). in that map it has 54% throttle will achieve 95% VE @ 6000 RPM. Actual tps is compared to 54% and the lessor is used as the input for alpha. So, no of those huge numbers are use above the 54% node unless you've modified the 95% VE tps map.
> 
> Once the ECU determines maf over Throttle plate up to 0psi, it then multiples it by a correction factor based on MAP.


Is that why Dave was saying start tuning the alpha N map on a mafless file by doing a lot of driving without getting into boost?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

elRey said:


> Anything after ~54% throttle is not use on the alpha map. There is a limit map before throttle % is use as an input for alpha.
> 
> The alpha maps are only for <= 0psi ( out of boost ). There is a map that tells what throttle % per RPM will achieve 95% VE ( @ or right below 0psi ). in that map it has 54% throttle will achieve 95% VE @ 6000 RPM. Actual tps is compared to 54% and the lessor is used as the input for alpha. So, no of those huge numbers are use above the 54% node unless you've modified the 95% VE tps map.
> 
> Once the ECU determines maf over Throttle plate up to 0psi, it then multiples it by a correction factor based on MAP.


That's exactly what I thought before, except not really knowing about the other map you mentioned. What map is that throttle % vs ve?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Dave926 said:


> That's exactly what I thought before, except not really knowing about the other map you mentioned. What map is that throttle % vs *95% ve*?


WDKUGDN

It's used for both alpha maps (Alpha N and Throttle Angle Vs. Airflow). limits the input for one (Alpha N) and limits the output of the other (Throttle Angle Vs. Airflow).

Also, you can use KFWDKSMX (Maximum Throttle Angle) to set max tps for more controlled logging. Warning! could be dangerous if you limit tps and then need it to get out of the way of danger. I usually just need it for 4000 an up leaving me full tps range 3500 an below to drive normal.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

What are you considering 'both alpha maps'?

Or do you mean throttle angle vs airflow and alpha n?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Sorry. I believe the one you call alpha has an input of rpm and tps and output expected air flow (Alpha N). This is use in place of maf. the second 'alpha' map i'm referring to has input of rpm and desired air flow and output needed tps (Throttle Angle Vs. Airflow). It's the inverse of your alpha. and any time u mod alpha, it's inverse should be modded accordingly. It's not absolutely necessary, but improves drivability. The inverse alpha does not affect fueling guess throttle response. tho it may affect tipin fueling. ill have to look.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

elRey said:


> Sorry. I believe the one you call alpha has an input of rpm and tps and output expected air flow. This is use in place of maf. the second 'alpha' map i'm referring to has input of rpm and desired air flow and output needed tps. It's the inverse of your alpha. and any time u mod alpha, it's inverse should be modded accordingly. It's not absolutely necessary, but improves drivability. The inverse alpha does not affect fueling guess throttle response. tho it may affect tipin fueling. ill have to look.


This gets more confusing when we are not sure what maps you are referring to.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> This gets more confusing when we are not sure what maps you are referring to.


I'm sure he is referring to aloha n and throttle vs airflow as they are inverse of eachother


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Sorry, I added Maestro map names to my earlier comments. In my mind I group Alpha N and Throttle Angle Vs. Airflow maps together because one is the inverse of the other. And when u r tuning one u r tuning the other. (tune Alpha N and then u have the other)


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I'm having trouble finding how PVDKDS has any influence on rl..... I was under the impression it has no input on load but is only for pressure control. KLAF as far as I've read has no input from PVDKDS. Maybe you can correct me on this. KLAF does play a part in correction rl for density.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Are we still talking mafless? if so, it's by fpvdkds_w which is pressure ratio ( pvdkds / atm ). And KLAF input is affected by pvdkds via fpvdkds_w ( x atm back into pressure ) as well.

Are u looking thru the german me7 doc?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Yes we are talking mafless. no the translated document. So your saying that KLAF's input itsn't throttle position but driver request? or your saying the corrections are done in throttle vrs airflow KFMSNWDK. Its been a long day I may need to do a bit more research tomorrow because I cannot for the life of me find the connection.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

The english doc is for NA and is missing a lot of turbo related functions and differs in some functions. 

Look for the var I mentioned tho. It still shows it in the eng doc.

Do you mean KFLF or KLAF?

So to summarize: (simplified)

limited tps => Alpha N x ( pvdkds / atm ) => rl => KLFL 
So pvdkds affects rl and thus affects input into main fuel correction. And MAP limit throws a monkey wrench into it all.

(assuming u meant KLFL)

edit: after rereading your comments I see you probably did mean KLAF. In that case pvdkds does play a role in the input for KLAF. However, it may be limited, and for all intents and purposes, you may be correct. The input to KLAF is manifold pressure / MAP (pre tb) pressure limited by .95. So, input would be 0 - .95. I haven't looked much into KLAF, sorry. I'm not sure what affect exceeding MAP limit affect KLAF.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

So this is the default path for rl while maf is disconnected? I didn't think KFLF was used at all once the maf was unplugged. (pretty sure thats flowmeter correction)

Yes your correct I was talking about KLAF. I have been researching the limited info on KLAF but have yet to come across anything that gives me the strategy for determining rl once the maf is taken out of the equation. All I can recall is that FVVKS is used as a end correction filter for KLAF. Its been clear to me for a while now these ecu's do not have a solid strategy for mafless conversions. You can make a mafless car run well for a majority of the time but if the car is driven through all seasons there will aways be a day it will find a hiccup. The map doesn't read vaccum, as far as I'm concerned it has vary little to no input for rl at idle or vacuum conditions. Positive pressure related rl I'm still on the ropes about.

For those who have switched from non stock maf setups to mafless files you maybe shaking your heads because you think hey I've had better results tuning mafless this guys nutz..... Well the reason being you took a larger maf that isn't properly calibrated for your setup which added yet another variable to compensate for and many end up doing those compensations in the wrong maps. 

You want to get a solid running 1.8t all year round stick to maf based setups..... or jump on the gonzo train because he's working on a routine for map based fuel corrections. It still won't help with idle unless you relocate map for manifold vacuum and he can setup the resolution so vacuum is included in his table.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

rl & RPM => KFLF = fgru (ESGRU func)
fgru is used with or without MAF. (GK func)

for calculating rl, it's either MAF or Alpha N * MAP (simplified).

And one of the key details is that rl = is really the difference of current rl and measured load (MAF or AlphaN) + current rl.

rl = rl + (measured load - rl)

Again, very simplified.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Hmmmm often times my own logic will get in the way of understanding Boschs' logic. For instance why would they use a filter or multiplier for maf signal correction like KFLF for rl correction while mafless? Regardless good info! 

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## jetta021.8t (Feb 13, 2009)

In the middle of tuning my car for a bit now and have an issue with the throttle body .. There is no base tune for an r32 75mm .. Should I use the 70mm or 80mm ? What should I adjust to fine tune that? Or does someone have a base file for that .. Thanks for any help you can give me .


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Use the 80mm file, and adjust alpha n based on corrections


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## jetta021.8t (Feb 13, 2009)

Ok thank u... Also I just seen something I'm not sure about ... Do I need my n75 plug in even tho I'm right a MBC


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

jetta021.8t said:


> Ok thank u... Also I just seen something I'm not sure about ... Do I need my n75 plug in even tho I'm right a MBC


Yes! It must be plugged into the harness but not plumbed into the wastegate line.


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## jetta021.8t (Feb 13, 2009)

Ok .. Alil new to this but what problems will this cause by not being in since it will not see boost


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Ecu will think it has no way to control boost and be very unhappy.. Lol...

In all seriousness I believe it defaults you to a type of limp mode. I'll let one of the more experienced me7 guys chime in with what happens exactly...


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

You will see your requested boost be flat lined at like 1500mB. Actual may exceed, but to make things work nicely just plug it in


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## jetta021.8t (Feb 13, 2009)

Ok I will plug that in .. Maybe that will help with turning it .. Big problem is the big rich dip in full when it hits full boost


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

I just have my n75 plugged in. Still on a 630cc base map. If I had the chance COULD I plumb it in? Or will it mess with the tune?
Also, I'm having an issue communicating with the maestro suite to run logs. It will either time out after connecting, or just never connect. This happen to anyone?
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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

You could use the n75 for boost control, but it's going to require some changes to the tables regarding that.

I'd suggest getting your tune dialed in first then monkey around with that.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Ok so I randomly decided to try out the other basefile on the maestro repository. I was using the stage 3 Gen II VVT active file before and now I am using the "older" stage 3 file. 

WOW! I don't know but the difference is staggering. Driveability seems much smoother and more consistent. I carried over all my fueling, airflow, ignition tables over.

There is one issue... Going Full throttle seems to make the fueling and timing go crazy. Can someone look over the log and give me some insight? 

Basically the only issues with this file are:
1) It wants to run much more timing on full throttle than what is preset in my timing map. I am requesting 22.5* and it is running that much, but is also pulling 9*... Weird ... 

2) Fueling seems to lose corrections at around 3000 rpms 

3) It is triggering and running off of the Full Load Lambda instead of power enrichment even though EGT threshold is set to 1000*. I raised it from 800 to try and remedy this issue.

Here is a Log with some pulls:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/caev2efxabth8yj/New Basefile Log.csv

Aside from those three issues the file is running super smooth. Fueling at idle and around town hovers between 0 and -5% 

Any help would be greatly appreciated...


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

spartiati said:


> Ok so I randomly decided to try out the other basefile on the maestro repository. I was using the stage 3 Gen II VVT active file before and now I am using the "older" stage 3 file.
> 
> WOW! I don't know but the difference is staggering. Driveability seems much smoother and more consistent. I carried over all my fueling, airflow, ignition tables over.
> 
> ...


Jacking up the minimum timing has always been a Tapp way to dial in the timing maps. Its on every single one of his basefiles.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I did notice that minimum timing was requesting 21* @ redline but much lower before that. I lowered this and will test to confirm. Hopefully that takes care of the timing issue...

I tried maxxing out the value for the EGT threshold as well last night and it did the same thing. I believe it was set to something like 1250*. That did not help. I was hoping to set it up to run off the power enrichment map and then trigger the full load lambda to run richer in case things got too toasty. Would it be beneficial to just disable the map or change the values to suite my needs? I recall reading (not sure where) triggering full load lambda influences other things such as torque during full throttle runs...


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> You could use the n75 for boost control, but it's going to require some changes to the tables regarding that.
> 
> I'd suggest getting your tune dialed in first then monkey around with that.


So what you're saying is, the base maps don't control boost thru the n75? But it could be changed 

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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

switched laptops so my question is, is there a fix for FTD2XX.DLL drivers? ive googled them and haven't had much luck with updating mine everytime I open flash or maestro I get that error.
any help would be greatly appreciated


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

Did you download the latest version?

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

euroguy666 said:


> So what you're saying is, the base maps don't control boost thru the n75? But it could be changed
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


I wouldn't trust them blindly to be honest. If you desire to use the n75, plumb it in parallel with an mbc as a safety net


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> I wouldn't trust them blindly to be honest. If you desire to use the n75, plumb it in parallel with an mbc as a safety net


Okay. What do you guys normally do? Is there a general consensus ?

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

To be honest, there aren't many users on here that do use them on BT setups. 

Any particular reason you wish to use it?


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> To be honest, there aren't many users on here that do use them on BT setups.
> 
> Any particular reason you wish to use it?


I'm building a new intake bc the one cts gave me blows... Just seeing if I should weld an extra port on or not... My buddy thinks we should use the n75, but if the tunes don't run off n75, then why bother? I'll just put a port on it and cap it... I don't have a MBC at this time. But that could be today's project... But you are saying it should atleast be plugged into the harness right?

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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

OK so I leaned out the full load lambda a bit and it helped with losing o2 corrections at full throttle. 

I set EGT threshold to 1200 and it is still using that map. So it seems I will have to utilize that map regardless...

Now back to the timing issue. I am requesting 21* at full throttle and am getting 21* of timing advance along with about 6* or timing correction. I lowered the minimum timing table and it helped with this but its still running much higher timing than requested. Anyone else have an idea about this?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I assume your adjusting the map labeled "pump gas timing"?

Check the iat vs timing too, as they are additive to the timing maps.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

getting ready to fire up the GTI for first time with new injectors. going through base files all I see is a 725cc base. I have 750's from pagparts. any help would be great.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> I assume your adjusting the map labeled "pump gas timing"?
> 
> Check the iat vs timing too, as they are additive to the timing maps.


Correct I am adjusting that timing map and I also confirmed that is the selected map in the quicktunes menu.

The IAT vs timing is zero for all cells below 30* and only pulls timing as IAT increases ...


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

spartiati said:


> Correct I am adjusting that timing map and I also confirmed that is the selected map in the quicktunes menu.
> 
> The IAT vs timing is zero for all cells below 30* and only pulls timing as IAT increases ...


Check to see if the timing mod over 100% isn't clicked on.

Otherwise PM me your log and file. Sometimes an extra pair of eyes is all it takes:thumbup:


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## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

Hey guys, I'm trying to get maestro installed after not using it since 2010. I don't need to change anything with the tune, just monitor my start up since the car hasn't ran for two years. 
I'm using a different computer with windows XP and I assume the issue is with the .net framework stuffs, but just need it confirmed. I'm not very tech worthy so for me getting this stuff setup is harder than tuning

I keep getting an error message before the program open.


I vaguely remember going thru this with my old computer that died but again it's been four years since I did that,

Thanks in advance


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

vwturbowolf said:


> Hey guys, I'm trying to get maestro installed after not using it since 2010. I don't need to change anything with the tune, just monitor my start up since the car hasn't ran for two years.
> I'm using a different computer with windows XP and I assume the issue is with the .net framework stuffs, but just need it confirmed. I'm not very tech worthy so for me getting this stuff setup is harder than tuning
> 
> I keep getting an error message before the program open.
> ...


when you plug in your cable it will give you windows update, just update the FTD driver once that comes up. I just went through same thing


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

here are some quick logs with my 750cc injectors installed with the stage 3 sem 70mm TB 725cc injector base file. any thoughts?

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIVFA1TFpnSkFUNm8/edit

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIeFZBM1htYTUwSDQ/edit

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIQnNhUlRMSmQ4WEk/edit


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## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

SGTphatboy said:


> when you plug in your cable it will give you windows update, just update the FTD driver once that comes up. I just went through same thing


Awesome thanks man. Yea I was uploading it on one of the computer at my shop and didn't even think about the cable. I will do that when I get home


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

some log from driving it home.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIZDBMQ2pzZk9abmc/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIVXpMZl9mYlJVQ0k/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIRHlYZW9JWk5LWkk/edit?usp=sharing


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

vwturbowolf said:


> Awesome thanks man. Yea I was uploading it on one of the computer at my shop and didn't even think about the cable. I will do that when I get home


no problem man, hows that monster of yours?


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## garytightpants (Jun 14, 2010)

I made this post in the audizine thread for AEB+maestro, but I'll post it in here too. This is on a DBC AEB. 

So I have been really playing with maestro for a while now, and I have what feels like a noob-ish question. HOW DO I RAISE THE BOOST? 

I gave read a lot of the tutorials and diy's for the me7 guys. And i have a good understanding of how Max VE works, but I guess I'm having trouble grasping how it plays along with alpha N among other things. I can't seem to go above 16psi. 

I know that I can make more boost, as I was running 22psi with a MBC for a while, while I waited for some parts to show up. I am running K04-015, 630's, springs on my wastegate ( DIY by "maarcus" or something close on vwvortex), fmic, 3" straightpipe, and for the moment, back to the stock MAF ( to prove to a friend I can tune it with stock maf). 

Also, is there a recommended N75 for the K04?

Edit: the wastegate mod for anyone interested. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showpost.php?p=77542690

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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

Has TAPP been nice lately about still building solid base files based on basic parameters? 

Thought about dropping him and email to get close into the ball park on my new setup...

Joe


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

garytightpants said:


> I made this post in the audizine thread for AEB+maestro, but I'll post it in here too. This is on a DBC AEB.
> 
> So I have been really playing with maestro for a while now, and I have what feels like a noob-ish question. HOW DO I RAISE THE BOOST?
> 
> ...


How are you logging lambda values?

I would ask Tapp if he could play with the variables/offsets/measuring blocks so you can wire up an output from a wideband controller to your post cat 02 sensor (assuming catless).


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## garytightpants (Jun 14, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> How are you logging lambda values?
> 
> I would ask Tapp if he could play with the variables/offsets/measuring blocks so you can wire up an output from a wide-band controller to your post cat 02 sensor (assuming catless).


Currently (like a proper fool) i am not monitoring it with anything. I'm still waiting on a wide-band gauge. I've just been using my brain,taking things slow, and doing TONS of research before i make any tweaks in maestro. Figuring out which maps (of the few that we get for ME5 ) actually raise the requested boost is killing me. and yes, i am running catless.

I don't think Tapp is going to be much help. He hasn't been so far, and he told me he no longer has am AEB test car. I am having an issue where i cant log above 5500rpm, they have stopped responding about it.

and a lot of AEB guys just remove the post-cat 02, and use their wide-band in its place, just like you said, only we can't really log it through maestro, just separately. Or they run it in the pre-cat position and run the narrow-band simulation to the ecu through the wiring for the stock sensor.

anyway, for those who haven't seen what maestro for ME5/AEB looks like...









that's all we get, with a whopping 3 base files.

Any help/advice is appreciated


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Increase the boost duty.

Small increments.

What I was trying to tell you is hookup the wideband's extra output to the secondary 02 sensors input. You will have to adjust the scaling on the sensor to 0v=10afr to 1v=20afr, and then log it through whatever measuring block it is.

It may or may not work, but if it does it will be instrumental in getting an accurate tune.


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## garytightpants (Jun 14, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Increase the boost duty.
> 
> Small increments.
> 
> ...


my current Boost Duty
<a href="http://imgur.com/qbimxaX"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/qbimxaX.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /></a>

and my MAX VE table
<a href="http://imgur.com/2i6NGTZ"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/2i6NGTZ.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /></a>


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

What about playing with desired engine load, and max airflow?

I know the AEB doesnt use a MAP sensor, so perhaps either one of them?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Post desired load. 

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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

vwturbowolf said:


> Awesome thanks man. Yea I was uploading it on one of the computer at my shop and didn't even think about the cable. I will do that when I get home


Hey man, saw you gave someone advice on how to update their FTD drivers to get maestro to work again on their computer. Can you explain to me what it is and how to do it? Is it a windows thing? Or is it a eurodyne thing? Didn't wanna clog up the thread with the same question just because I didn't understand. I'm having this same issue. Thanks in advance 

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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

^ that was supposed to be a PM to vwturbowolf. Lol it won't let me delete it for some reason. Sorry! Tried to do the right thing

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## needlessthing (Oct 28, 2005)

*need alittle advice. Starting base file.*

2003 Jetta 1.8t . Car has been sitting for a year with a blown motor. (Stock turbo grenade)

engine rebuilt and back in the car. Currently running a basic tune. Stable Idol and drive smooth but I know I can get more power out of it.

AWP motor with following changes. 
Stock compression with awp port and polished head to AEB port size. Probably doesn't flow as well as an AEB but close.
Deleted SAI/EVAP and No rear o2. Wideband currently in its place.
Autotech Intake Cam
IE intake manifold
TT Maf Housing.
K04 Turbo
Stock injectors with 4 bar FPR
2.0t Coil packs think running a .38 spark plug Gap.

Wondering what base file I should start with. Currently with logs ECU is pulling -6.50 on timing at WOT and only pecking 16PSI. Which is down from the 19 I had with stock turbo on Giax over a year ago. Figured I would drop a few PSI with bigger manifold. Plus why would the car be pulling timing at WOT? from what I have read -6 to-7 is acceptable safe limits. Wideband says all is good from idol to WOT so don't think it is fuel issue. Could it be the intake cam causing the issue? I am pretty new to Maesto and just starting to get my hands dirty with it. Any input would be awesome from you guys or someone that might be in the North NJ area that can spare a day to show me a few thinks about maestro would be even better. Willing to pay for time of course.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

The timing pull is pretty normal for a base file. Timing is set pretty aggressive. Locals car I tuned was like -11.5 on an AWM base

Post a WOT log and file via Google drive here, and we can direct you along from there


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## 1.8T_Guy (Feb 8, 2011)

Hey guys, pretty new to eurodyne. I got a log going and I want to see what you guys think of it. Me personally, I somewhat know what I need to look for but don't what to adjust. If you guys can help that'll be awsome. I'm using the 550cc frankenturbo base file. 

Mods are: f21 turbo, TBE, FMIC, and water meth

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Z8SZkHDjX1cERZa0ZQbHB3eWM/edit?usp=sharing


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

1.8T_Guy said:


> Hey guys, pretty new to eurodyne. I got a log going and I want to see what you guys think of it. Me personally, I somewhat know what I need to look for but don't what to adjust. If you guys can help that'll be awsome. I'm using the 550cc frankenturbo base file.
> 
> Mods are: f21 turbo, TBE, FMIC, and water meth
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Z8SZkHDjX1cERZa0ZQbHB3eWM/edit?usp=sharing


Assuming your using 550cc injectors, your idc is through the roof.

What's the status of your pump?

Lambda actual is off a good amount of from requested. If you got meth, you can probably lean it out to 12.0.

Timing curve is pretty weak, I hope that wasn't with the meth on.


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## 1.8T_Guy (Feb 8, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> Assuming your using 550cc injectors, your idc is through the roof.
> 
> What's the status of your pump?
> 
> ...


Dave, this is what I wanted to hear. I figured something wasn't right. Yes, I am using 550cc injectors. Both the intank pump and inline pump should be good unless I'm wrong. That run was with meth on because I wanted to see if their was any changes to the previous run with out meth. Here is the previous run without meth, 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Z8SZkHDjX1TjNnSVowQ2h5dEU/edit?usp=sharing

To me, I don't see much of a difference besides the IAT


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

1.8T_Guy said:


> Dave, this is what I wanted to hear. I figured something wasn't right. Yes, I am using 550cc injectors. Both the intank pump and inline pump should be good unless I'm wrong. That run was with meth on because I wanted to see if their was any changes to the previous run with out meth. Here is the previous run without meth,
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Z8SZkHDjX1TjNnSVowQ2h5dEU/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> To me, I don't see much of a difference besides the IAT


A little bit more than just an IAT difference........



You have a fueling issue.

Check the fuel filter and go from there

I would suggest not letting it boost too much


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## 1.8T_Guy (Feb 8, 2011)

Will do. Car has been down for a while.

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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Ok. Car runs great since the install of my 1000cc ID and inline pump. My fueling is spot on. But now I have a small pop between shifts mostly when the car is cold. It's like a backfire in my exhaust. How do I fix this.?And is it bad? as it sounds bad ass and shoots little flames balls at night. 

This does not happen at wot. Only when puttin around. And only since doing my injectors and inline pump


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Subtract fuel from decreasing loads might bandaid it.

Problem is most likely fuel sticking to the intake ports and loading up a little during shifts.


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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

I'll be traveling to SoWo here in a week and was a little curious if I need to be worried about elevation changes and my flash, and what I'd need to change traveling from Omaha (1,090 ft) to Helen (1,447 ft). Obviously its not a huge change, but going through the mountains cruising I'm wondering about having drivability problems. 

Can anyone help to enlighten me? I'm running an F21 with 550s.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Shouldn't be an issue, assuming your tune is good where you live now. Like excessive timing pull, fuel corrections are reasonable etc


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

kueckerdj09 said:


> I'll be traveling to SoWo here in a week and was a little curious if I need to be worried about elevation changes and my flash, and what I'd need to change traveling from Omaha (1,090 ft) to Helen (1,447 ft). Obviously its not a huge change, but going through the mountains cruising I'm wondering about having drivability problems.
> 
> Can anyone help to enlighten me? I'm running an F21 with 550s.


Helen is not very high I wouldn't worry about it at all


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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> Shouldn't be an issue, assuming your tune is good where you live now. Like excessive timing pull, fuel corrections are reasonable etc


I'm still adjusting timing pull this week, so I should be okay. Getting some knocking at WOT near 5000 rpm, hopefully pulling it back will help. 



formerly silveratljetta said:


> Helen is not very high I wouldn't worry about it at all


I was more worried about the mountain passes coming down from TN, last year my old car struggled some (of course it wasn't turbocharged).


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## dannybarone (Oct 16, 2006)

Hey guys. I have a question. I have about 1k miles on my setup and the last couple hundred miles I've been getting the code, p1137 bank 1 system to rich. 

Any recommendations on what to check out. I have a gt3076r,630 injectors, bosch 044 inline pump, mafless 

Thanks 


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Assuming you calculated injector constant and BVC properly, check for intake/exhaust leaks. 

Easiest way to check for intake leaks is to block off the filter side of your TIP and then pressurize the system. Any leaks should be easy to find because they will leak air fairly audibly. Make sure things on the back side of the check valve running to your brake booster are sealed if you do this, because those wont present themselves under a pressure test and have me a massive headache with my setup. 

Then for the exhaust, just use seafoam. Follow the directions on the bottle to clean intake valves, then when you restart the engine, check around the manifold, turbo, and down pipe for any white smoke (don't inhale):laugh:

If you find leaks, fix them and see how that effects things, if not, post here or PM me and I can help you out :thumbup:


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

I need help guys. 

First issue I have is that my ECU is coded to 07500 for a VW and my car is an Audi AWM, but I can't recode it. Then my other issue is that I can't run the throttle body alignment, not sure why. I think it's related to Eurodyne. Can it have to do with the mapping on file? 

I know common issues when this happens is because either you have a bad ECU or a bad tb, but I have neither. I have an extra ECU and I was able to run the tb alignment and I recoded it for an Audi. Then I shipped both ECUs and cable to Eurodyne and they swapped the credits, when I go it back I flashed the ECU and it changed my code back to 07500 and the same issue with the tb. The car did turn on, but it's not idling great. I do have to build the exhaust too, not sure if this can be part of the idle issue.

Maybe I should start all over and get a good base file for an Audi AWM? Any help would be great! You can post here or pm me.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Why do you need to recode it?


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## pielout (Jul 12, 2006)

Hey guys I am very inexperienced with Maestro and have had the car running for a bit but runs very rough. Low vacuum(around 11gh at idle), lumpy idle and will die at times when coming to a stop. I have pressure tested multiple times without any results. I have just finished the 500 break in miles and ran these logs. If you guys wouldn't mind looking over them and letting know what you are seeing that would be great.

Cruise Logs:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzUPcaKREUt9NnVHUGI0akc5ZGM/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzUPcaKREUt9RktDaDdod2FDbU0/edit?usp=sharing


WOT 3rd gear Logs: (not shifting to redline, still makes me nervous on new build)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzUPcaKREUt9NHpfekN3YUNTS00/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzUPcaKREUt9Q2ZRcXFNcjN1d1E/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzUPcaKREUt9VXotRmJZVkdhcW8/edit?usp=sharing

One thing I notice on the logs is I have 0 knock. I know having minimal to no knock is a good thing(I think) but its weird that I have absolutely nothing.


Car is 20th GTI: FFE mini me turbo kit(precision 50trim), tial bov, tial wg, siemens 630s, stock maf and tb, eurojet fmic. I have put a new o2 sensor/cam position sensor thinking it would help but nothing. I don't want to be wasting $ on things if I do not have to.

Any help would be appreciated:thumbup:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Took me about 3 seconds to know the issue.

Go into quicktune, and turn on 'Switcthing Active'. Put it on pump gas

If you have any further questions either PM me or post here

Hold the **** on after, because your going to go from 0* of timing to probably 15* lol


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## pielout (Jul 12, 2006)

How is it that you can tell that from what I posted? Just so I can be enlightened. Like I said I am verry green when it comes to this tuning stuff but I am ready to get my hands dirty. There needs to be a Maestro For Dummies book 

Thanks for the help, I will give that a try and report back:thumbup:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

****ing magic :laugh:

Sometimes it happens when using a Stage 3 file. Your not the first person.

Chances are good you will have tons of timing pull, so be carefull


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Why do you need to recode it?


Well I saw a post somewhere that the abs works different with a Quattro vs a fwd, not sure if it's true or not. Right now I'm more worried about not being able to do the tb alignment. When I first turn on the car it revs from 1000 to 2000 up and down, up and down until it finally it idles, but it's pretty bad, then when I press on the gas there's no response.


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## pielout (Jul 12, 2006)

Dave926 said:


> ****ing magic :laugh:
> 
> Sometimes it happens when using a Stage 3 file. Your not the first person.
> 
> Chances are good you will have tons of timing pull, so be carefull




Well it was in Race gas "mode" so you were correct.(thank you:beer: ) The car def idles smoother but it is not perfect. My vacuum is still around 10-12hg and idle is still a little lumpy. I never got to take it around the block to log and to see how it runs. Wife would get pissed if I left the 2 little ones home alone lol. I will repost my logs when I get them:thumbup:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Trust me it wasnt in race gas mode.

Your timing was ~0* of advance.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Haven't been here in awhile. Some good discussions going on! 

Q: Has anyone found a solution to part throttle preemptive boost build up yet when strictly on a MBC? My car at part throttle always seems to want to go full boost and its annoying as hell. (Also dangerous i'd imagine)

I know its ME7 nonsense to always add more throttle than what the pedal is inputting to the ecu...I wonder if there's a map somewhere that controls the additional TB plate angle increase vs. pedal input? There must be if its is Bosch's logic to always add additional throttle plate angle and make it so non-linear to help with increasing loads. 

It would really make my day (and im sure a lot of other peoples days lol) if we could find a way to make the throttle more linear. I've tried a flat pedal map (Which works great) but im still seeing the issue. Anyone have any reading material on how bosch determines TB angle?

Thoughts? Am I missing something maybe? When I can im going to log pedal vs tb so I can see what the relationship is.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

look at KFVPDKSD / KFVPDKSE maps. Not sure what Maestro equivalent names are.


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

couple "generic" questions. not so much bout maestro but related. planning on changing injectors soon since i've heard the siemens injectors are a pain to tune with. found a set of genesis II 630cc injectors for a good price, but was considering going with 1000cc but thats another couple hundred bucks. also, anyone had any experience with the injector developement injectors? couple of the guys on here with 9 second gtis are running them and those are some high HP cars, and they are priced pretty well. wouldnt mind going with the genII 630cc as im pretty sure they would get the job done with what im running and planning to run in the futue. thanks


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

elRey said:


> look at KFVPDKSD / KFVPDKSE maps. Not sure what Maestro equivalent names are.


I was looking at that on S4 wiki. Unfortunately Maestro doesnt allow access to those.

I was also thinking KFWDKMSN - Mapping for throttle target angle map would also be worthy to look at.

I dont understand why Chris feels the need to handicap maps like this. They should make a "try at own risk" version of maestro to allow full access to everything.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

booster, try contacting Scott @ USRT. He will point you in the right direction. Their Genesis II line of injectors are much better than equally sized siemens injectors. 

size kind of depends on your power goals and what kind of fuel you will be running. Just to put it out there, my Gen II 1000cc setup has been great in the 6 months I've had it, and can support more power than I will ever make with the turbo I have.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

For anyone here, from stock turbo to 35r my recommendations are

Pump gas = 1000s
E85. = 2000s


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Poody said:


> booster, try contacting Scott @ USRT. He will point you in the right direction. Their Genesis II line of injectors are much better than equally sized siemens injectors.
> 
> size kind of depends on your power goals and what kind of fuel you will be running. Just to put it out there, my Gen II 1000cc setup has been great in the 6 months I've had it, and can support more power than I will ever make with the turbo I have.


On a similar note, I'm running 630s as of now. When I jump to 1000cc injectors, do I need to wire in a different injector harness? I was told I did. But not sure if that was for ID injectors, or all types

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

That all depends on the connector on the fuel injector. I can say for sure that the FID and Genesis II are factory connectors, not sure about 100% injector dynamics. Pretty sure they are offered with a factory style injector plug, maybe somebody else can chime in?

And lol @ 1000s on a stock turbo. 25% duty cycle FTW? :laugh:


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

looks like i may be saving up for genII 1000s then! thanks for the suggestions.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Poody said:


> That all depends on the connector on the fuel injector. I can say for sure that the FID and Genesis II are factory connectors, not sure about 100% injector dynamics. Pretty sure they are offered with a factory style injector plug, maybe somebody else can chime in?
> 
> And lol @ 1000s on a stock turbo. 25% duty cycle FTW? :laugh:


It was a pretty broad spectrum comment, but honestly the cost difference between 630s and 1000s is marginal, so why limit yourself? 

With a decent 1k injector you sacrifice absolutely nothing


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Rac_337 said:


> I was looking at that on S4 wiki. Unfortunately Maestro doesnt allow access to those.
> 
> I was also thinking KFWDKMSN - Mapping for throttle target angle map would also be worthy to look at.
> 
> I dont understand why Chris feels the need to handicap maps like this. They should make a "try at own risk" version of maestro to allow full access to everything.


Because it's just another group of maps to find for various ecu/software versions. It's just another PITA for him to add with no perk besides a few less complaints. Also most users have no idea how to calibrate those maps anyway. 

He has a lot of plateforms on his plate as it is but hopefully he can find the time to add them. I'll eventually be doing my own route if he doesn't. When I find free time to look up the adresses I'll email him the locations/factors and offsets so half the work is already done at least for the PL/LP/HR ecus. 

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Budsdubbin said:


> Because it's just another group of maps to find for various ecu/software versions. It's just another PITA for him to add with no perk besides a few less complaints. Also most users have no idea how to calibrate those maps anyway.
> 
> He has a lot of plateforms on his plate as it is but hopefully he can find the time to add them. I'll eventually be doing my own route if he doesn't. When I find free time to look up the adresses I'll email him the locations/factors and offsets so half the work is already done at least for the PL/LP/HR ecus.
> 
> Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


As nice as factory ECU's are im leaning more and more towards a vipec every day lol


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Vipec and lugtronic are butter to tune but there is nothing wrong with me7 in the right hands. Autronic broke into 9's on stock ecu. You just have to know what your doin, interpolation and scaling one map in most cases will need to be applied to other maps that share the same axis or have some relation to one another.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Budsdubbin said:


> Vipec and lugtronic are butter to tune but there is nothing wrong with me7 in the right hands. Autronic broke into 9's on stock ecu. You just have to know what your doin, interpolation and scaling one map in most cases will need to be applied to other maps that share the same axis or have some relation to one another.
> 
> Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


You are right. ME7 is a great bit of kit...but that still wont fix the lack of maps available lol

My MAFless tune is fantastic and I love it, but it could definitely use some more refinement to maps that Maestro does not allow access too. I only live 3 hours away from Tapp. I should go pay him a visit one day.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Im going to try playing with Max TB angle and pressure ratio to switch to unthrottled later this week. Will report back if I make any decent progress :beer:


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

Just a thought:

Has anyone every tried to increase PSPVDKUG beyond .95 to force the ecu to always use KLAF torque model to determine TB angle and not switch to using WDKSUGDT sub function?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

http://proefi.com/info/product-list/ecus/

Less than $900 for Pro48 and I'm pretty sure it does DBW

I've used Pro148 a little, and holy **** what that ecu is capable of, logging included


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## dogsbrekky (May 14, 2014)

*E85 Tuning*

I have a Porsche 996 Turbo and am tuned with Eurodyne Maestro 7 with a few upgrades like 1000IDs, EVOMS vflow intake etc, Wallbro 450 HPFP, new lines etc etc, stock internals, K24 turbos......

I am getting a tune for my new fueling system by one of the local Porsche Eurodyne experts, this will be for 93 octane as my clutch probably won't handle the extra power from E85 currently......

Anyway, there is ZERO info in the Porsche world of any use (we also own a VW GTI) so I have a simple yet maybe dumb question after reading literally hundreds of pages here and elsewhere on Maestro......

*Is the E85 tuning for my set up as simple as modding my current pro-tune (93 octane) by selecting the 100 octane map, then upping the main fueling map by 30%*

I would do detailed logging etc before doing anything crazy.

Thanks for any and all comments or if this has been covered if an E85 expert could refer me to the map changes etc


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I've never seen a Porsche file for Maestro, but the ecu functions are essentially the same. Is your car wideband native?

The general rule of thumb for an E85 setup is to add 30% greater fuel volume needed. The additional timing advantage is usually 5 to 6 degrees, but that exact number varies from one setup to the next

If you want to pm me your file and give you a better idea that would be great


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## dogsbrekky (May 14, 2014)

Dave926 said:


> I've never seen a Porsche file for Maestro, but the ecu functions are essentially the same. Is your car wideband native?
> 
> The general rule of thumb for an E85 setup is to add 30% greater fuel volume needed. The additional timing advantage is usually 5 to 6 degrees, but that exact number varies from one setup to the next
> 
> If you want to pm me your file and give you a better idea that would be great


Thanks Dave, I am getting the car back either Fri or next week.... the Porsche guru here in NY has added the mods and is tuning for 93 octane

Once I get it back I will email the current ECU tune !


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## dogsbrekky (May 14, 2014)

Dave926 said:


> I've never seen a Porsche file for Maestro, but the ecu functions are essentially the same. Is your car wideband native?
> 
> The general rule of thumb for an E85 setup is to add 30% greater fuel volume needed. The additional timing advantage is usually 5 to 6 degrees, but that exact number varies from one setup to the next
> 
> If you want to pm me your file and give you a better idea that would be great


Sorry yes it targets lambda (widebad)... I was looking at E85 WOT Lambdas around 0.83 and in winter when we have E70 around 0.81


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

Rac_337 said:


> Haven't been here in awhile. Some good discussions going on!
> 
> Q: Has anyone found a solution to part throttle preemptive boost build up yet when strictly on a MBC? My car at part throttle always seems to want to go full boost and its annoying as hell. (Also dangerous i'd imagine)


i had read that this was the case, so i was surprised when i think it was dave who said earlier that mostly everyone is running an MBC on BT setups. it seems like part-throttle-full-boost is a huge change over how the car drives when stock, so it doesn't make sense to me that MBC's are the norm, or that the maps to fix this aren't accessible.

does this mean tunes that utilize the N75 are not susceptible to this issue?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

dogsbrekky said:


> Sorry yes it targets lambda (widebad)... I was looking at E85 WOT Lambdas around 0.83 and in winter when we have E70 around 0.81


0.85 is a good place to start, but every engine is different. Some like that, some like a little richer etc. I really don't know a ton about Porsches, but if I had to guess heat is a major issue. I know you guys have massive cooling systems, ton of oil capacity etc but an engine crammed into a small space with a pair of hybrids at full tilt has got to generate a ton of heat



gitman said:


> i had read that this was the case, so i was surprised when i think it was dave who said earlier that mostly everyone is running an MBC on BT setups. it seems like part-throttle-full-boost is a huge change over how the car drives when stock, so it doesn't make sense to me that MBC's are the norm, or that the maps to fix this aren't accessible.
> 
> does this mean tunes that utilize the N75 are not susceptible to this issue?


There's a lot more to it. You can't think of n75 being used as boost control, but more like load control. Rac there's a good thread stickies on the top page of nef in their tuning section. If you wish I can link it but it's easy enough to find it, and it discusses at length of part throttle boost control


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## dogsbrekky (May 14, 2014)

Dave926 said:


> 0.85 is a good place to start, but every engine is different. Some like that, some like a little richer etc. I really don't know a ton about Porsches, but if I had to guess heat is a major issue. I know you guys have massive cooling systems, ton of oil capacity etc but an engine crammed into a small space with a pair of hybrids at full tilt has got to generate a ton of heat
> l


My main problem on the old GIAC tune was the DC% was going way over 100, pulling timing etc, getting a crazy overboost above 6000 rpms to 1.5 bar when the fuel system couldnt handle even 1.2 bar... on the newer Eurodyne base map it was doing the same.. also most 996 Turbo tunes I see are on the very rich side Lambdas... AFRS in low 11s to low 10s... the ECU adjusts even lower

The E85 cooling effect and the ICs in my car should be enough to keep IATs in check to about 600 crank hp... it was about 550bhp (450-460 awhp) before it broke the front diff/axle on a dyno

I will get the car back and see how it does with 93 octane on the tune being done now, then do a 100 octane run file, then slowly convert to E85


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

It shouldn't be too different as far as dialing in. Just scale IC 30% and go from there. Target lambda will depend on the motor and how the combustion chamber handles the mix. Some designs could be more susceptible to the formation of hot spots that may lead into knock so targeting a richer lambda maybe better. Others may actually knock at richer mixes. So start from .80-.81or 11.9-12.3 and work off of that. Monitor maf readings and keep an eye on knock to confirm improvements. E85 is obviously less susceptible to knock which is good and bad. Flash point of the mix could happen before any warning from knock. I've read horror stories of folks running timing advance close to MBT because of it.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> There's a lot more to it. You can't think of n75 being used as boost control, but more like load control.


let me see if I can ask a different way. specific to BT, if you have a tune that uses the ECU to control whatever factors influence the resulting boost level, instead of using an MBC, then are you as susceptible to the part throttle issues as described by Rac? or is there a specific configuration where this is less likely to occur (keeping ME7 of course)? is it a Eurodyne problem, or something more common than that? I think this information will help me understand what you were getting at, instead of the other way around.


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## dogsbrekky (May 14, 2014)

Budsdubbin said:


> It shouldn't be too different as far as dialing in. Just scale IC 30% and go from there. Target lambda will depend on the motor and how the combustion chamber handles the mix. Some designs could be more susceptible to the formation of hot spots that may lead into knock so targeting a richer lambda maybe better. Others may actually knock at richer mixes. So start from .80-.81or 11.9-12.3 and work off of that. Monitor maf readings and keep an eye on knock to confirm improvements. E85 is obviously less susceptible to knock which is good and bad. Flash point of the mix could happen before any warning from knock. I've read horror stories of folks running timing advance close to MBT because of it.
> 
> Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


So on the IC page where I would be running Id1000s which are 1015cc at a normal 43.5 psi on my 93 octane tune I would just change that to 60 psi or 4 bar even though I have a 3 bar car and then use the 100 octane map...... adjust lamdas and do some gentle tests, adjust, rinse and repeat


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

You have to recalculate the ic for the extra flow from the injectors, 3 bar vs 4 bar.

If your injectors flow 1000ccs on gasoline, to start with on E85, you need to tell the calculator they flow 700ccs. From.there you adjust the injector constant based on trims, but if you aren't having hardware issues it should be pretty close


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## dogsbrekky (May 14, 2014)

Dave926 said:


> You have to recalculate the ic for the extra flow from the injectors, 3 bar vs 4 bar.
> 
> If your injectors flow 1000ccs on gasoline, to start with on E85, you need to tell the calculator they flow 700ccs. From.there you adjust the injector constant based on trims, but if you aren't having hardware issues it should be pretty close


understand, thx


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

gitman said:


> let me see if I can ask a different way. specific to BT, if you have a tune that uses the ECU to control whatever factors influence the resulting boost level, instead of using an MBC, then are you as susceptible to the part throttle issues as described by Rac? or is there a specific configuration where this is less likely to occur (keeping ME7 of course)? is it a Eurodyne problem, or something more common than that? I think this information will help me understand what you were getting at, instead of the other way around.



I really wish I could understand it more, to be honest.

If you want to begin to understand it, heres a great thread that discusses it.http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=4381.0title=

I wouldnt suggest posting, as those guys tend to not take nicely to Maestro users


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

gitman said:


> let me see if I can ask a different way. specific to BT, if you have a tune that uses the ECU to control whatever factors influence the resulting boost level, instead of using an MBC, then are you as susceptible to the part throttle issues as described by Rac? or is there a specific configuration where this is less likely to occur (keeping ME7 of course)? is it a Eurodyne problem, or something more common than that? I think this information will help me understand what you were getting at, instead of the other way around.


Simplified:

Stock ECU assumes stock turbo and wastegate spring rate (~5-7 psi). Since 0% n75 will still produce 7psi the ecu can only regulate <7psi via TB. any >7psi it can regulate via n75. When you add a mbc, you affectively increase the wastage spring rate to whatever you set the mbc at. The ecu cannot regulate boost with n75. The maps I mentioned earlier are for the transition from TB to N75 regulation of boost. With those maps you can set up to what psi the ecu should still use TB to regulate boost. 

The situation you and Rac are discribing is where ecu requests more than 7psi. And it thinks it can only regulate it with TB = 100% and N75 = x%. ( log TB ). What you want is to tell ecu it has to regulation boost via TB up to what you have your mbc set at. Those maps do that. And the way you adjust the maps is you shift the pressure axis to where the transtion lines up with your mbc setting.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> I really wish I could understand it more, to be honest.
> 
> If you want to begin to understand it, heres a great thread that discusses it.http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=4381.0title=
> 
> I wouldnt suggest posting, as those guys tend to not take nicely to Maestro users


It doesn't matter if your a maestro user or not.... As long as you have taken the time to understand the maps your posting about then you should have little negative feedback. They've handed over the tools to learn but they arnt going to spoon feed it to you. If they pick up on your knowledge being attained from hear-say then your not gonna get very far.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

elRey said:


> Simplified:
> 
> Stock ECU assumes stock turbo and wastegate spring rate (~5-7 psi). Since 0% n75 will still produce 7psi the ecu can only regulate <7psi via TB. any >7psi it can regulate via n75. When you add a mbc, you affectively increase the wastage spring rate to whatever you set the mbc at. The ecu cannot regulate boost with n75. The maps I mentioned earlier are for the transition from TB to N75 regulation of boost. With those maps you can set up to what psi the ecu should still use TB to regulate boost.
> 
> The situation you and Rac are discribing is where ecu requests more than 7psi. And it thinks it can only regulate it with TB = 100% and N75 = x%. ( log TB ). What you want is to tell ecu it has to regulation boost via TB up to what you have your mbc set at. Those maps do that. And the way you adjust the maps is you shift the pressure axis to where the transtion lines up with your mbc setting.


thanks. let me take a stab at it and see if i got it.

As you said, the stock ECU [logical WG spring rate] is 7 psi (this is _because_ of the KFVPDKSD / KFVPDKSE maps?)
ECU regulates up to [logical WG spring rate] via TB
ECU regulates anything requested past [logical WG spring rate] via N75

let's say you install an MBC and set it to 20 psi, that's your [effective WG spring rate]. the ECU still only regulates up to [logical WG spring rate]. when the ECU requests anything over [logical WG spring rate], it expects the WG to have already cracked open, but it's _not_ going to crack for another ([effective WG spring rate] - [logical WG spring rate]) psi, so full boost is met basically because the ECU has no means of regulating boost at all at this point. adjust the maps to increase [logical WG spring rate], and the ECU can regulate with the TB once again. if you only apply enough throttle so that requested boost stays under [logical WG spring rate], then you don't experience the issue since the ECU is still able to regulate.

yes, i can see now how my original question was not really applicable. however that does beg the question, is the lack of access to these maps in maestro the reason why maestro tunes are (i believe the words used were) not to be trusted for using only the N75 (w/o MBC) to control boost? or is there another reason? and i'm assuming since maestro does not provide access to those maps that you have to use WinOLS to adjust them?


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## Schnitzelburnr (Nov 13, 2009)

*Detonation under load*

Hey guys I'm running a frankenturbo f21 with 550cc injectors, using the f21 vvt awp base file and I'm experiencing pinging/detonation between 3000-4000rpm, even with only 12psi or so of boost it still pings, running 94 octane gas.
Here's a file between mostly 3000-4000rpm as thats where I'm hearing the detonation.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pOA3XNiO9ON241WDVvNXhVNkk/edit?usp=sharing


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

First KISS

Try a different gas station
Pour in 4-5 gallons of race fuel when your really low on gas. If it still registers timing pull, check the knock sensors


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## Schnitzelburnr (Nov 13, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> First KISS
> 
> Try a different gas station
> Pour in 4-5 gallons of race fuel when your really low on gas. If it still registers timing pull, check the knock sensors


Sorry that was an old log with 3 boost leaks and a dirty maf, I posted the wrong one.

I seem to have fixed it, I think was something as simple as checking the box "switching active" in quicktune. What exactly does that do? I can't find much info on it anywhere. I think it has something to do with allowing the timing to be modified? maybe because this was a vvt tune and I had it turned off it was messing everything up?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Sometime it has to be turned on for the car to use the timing map, I think it's a weird bug in tapps code. Usually when it's an issue, the car will run no timing whatsoever .


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Hey guys, I'm helping someone out with a tune right now, and in maestro logs, actual torque is perpetually stuck at 0. Any ideas what that means and what can cause it?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Why do you need to see it?


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

I don't need to see it as far as I know. I just noticed that it is stuck at 0 and didn't know if that could cause any problems, or if it was caused by a failing sensor etc. Its just something I've never seen before and didn't know what to think of it


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

The VVT files sometimes show it, by otherwise that's normal


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

:thumbup::thumbup:

Cool cool. Thanks man :beer:

I have a lot to learn about Maestro. I know the fuel and timing maps fairly well. Torque control stuff just goes right over my head though. The trouble is theres like no documentation out there to help me (that I know of anyways). :banghead:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Poody said:


> :thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> Cool cool. Thanks man :beer:
> 
> I have a lot to learn about Maestro. I know the fuel and timing maps fairly well. Torque control stuff just goes right over my head though. The trouble is theres like no documentation out there to help me (that I know of anyways). :banghead:


The information is out there, in fact there is a very long thread on nefmoto about it


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm truly amazed that I haven't stumbled across it then. I'm on nefmoto for a couple hours a week just reading haha. I'll try to look a little harder


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=970.0


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## Richardsa4 (May 19, 2009)

My friend and I have just finished installing a new turbo setup on his 1.8t B6 A4. He decided to switch to maestro although nietherof us has much knowledge of tuning we've been reading a lot lately to get this car running. The car currently starst/idles/drives. We've only done one short 1-2 mile trip being very easy on it to get a datalog. We used the 725cc ev14 base file provide by eurodyne. There was no option for the cars correct injector size or 70mm throttle body. On the base file we changed the injector sizing to suit the 1000cc genesis II's with stock 4 bar fuel pressure, other than that this base file tune was left unchanged.

I'm hoping one of you could take a look the log and provide some input.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4NPqjPSXLYsSDZnYWFOR1RTb0E/edit?usp=sharing


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Doesn't look right at all. Car is running very lean with max o2 corrections.
Pm me the details of your build and I will send you a base file


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## Schnitzelburnr (Nov 13, 2009)

I'm trying to figure out eurodyne here, I'm getting a ton of knock correction, across the cylinders, and someone else was saying my timing advance seems weird. I've noticed that the 02 correction, almost seems to mirror my timing advance, is that normal or could my 02 sensor be toast? the car is throwing no codes or errors.

Here's a log from idle briefly 1st, 2nd, then through 3rd.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pOA3XNiO9Oam4zWTF6YTJhc0E/edit?usp=sharing

thanks for the help guys! new to this :beer:


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Heres two suggestions before you do anything else:

1. Pull ~5 degrees of timing from your timing map, and make sure you don't accidentally have the race gas map activated

2. Get your WOT fueling set to something more reasonable. You definitely don't need to run 11:1 under 14 psi. I think that is why you lost o2 corrections toward the end of your pull. Maybe somebody else can confirm that


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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

Just trying to tweak off the Franketurbo base file and I'm seeing a few things I'm unsure of. Boost request is 21 psi but it only seems to hit 15-16 normally. Also I'm seeing some knock and O2 correction. I tried to pull back the timing a few degrees in quick settings and the car just feels like it spools slower, and kind of loses power on the top end.

This is a 3rd gear wot log. Please give me some pointers on what to adjust. Thanks

https://db.tt/Fs2OOETc

And the file in question

https://db.tt/kukGZHYZ


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## Schnitzelburnr (Nov 13, 2009)

Poody said:


> Heres two suggestions before you do anything else:
> 
> 1. Pull ~5 degrees of timing from your timing map, and make sure you don't accidentally have the race gas map activated
> 
> 2. Get your WOT fueling set to something more reasonable. You definitely don't need to run 11:1 under 14 psi. I think that is why you lost o2 corrections toward the end of your pull. Maybe somebody else can confirm that


I thought it might be the race gas thing already so checked that. Just to be clear with the timing I want to go into the quicktune settings and move the timing -5 degrees? Would that not just further advance the timing and cause knock?

and with regards to the WOT fueling set up, I haven`t modified any graphs thus far, Should I just follow the 'maestro graphing made easy' thing?


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

No. For your WOT fueling, you want to adjust maps in the maestro suite. The two that are for Lambda target are called power enrichment and full load lambda. Set them around .82-.85 

Then reduce timing using the pump gas timing map. Pull timing from the rpm and load areas that you were encountering knock.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

kueckerdj09 said:


> Just trying to tweak off the Franketurbo base file and I'm seeing a few things I'm unsure of. Boost request is 21 psi but it only seems to hit 15-16 normally. Also I'm seeing some knock and O2 correction. I tried to pull back the timing a few degrees in quick settings and the car just feels like it spools slower, and kind of loses power on the top end.
> 
> This is a 3rd gear wot log. Please give me some pointers on what to adjust. Thanks
> 
> ...


*You dont need 0.82 lambda at 3psi LOL. I would take out 2*, thats it*



Schnitzelburnr said:


> I thought it might be the race gas thing already so checked that. Just to be clear with the timing I want to go into the quicktune settings and move the timing -5 degrees? Would that not just further advance the timing and cause knock?
> 
> and with regards to the WOT fueling set up, I haven`t modified any graphs thus far, Should I just follow the 'maestro graphing made easy' thing?


*Graph away. It will help you 'see' the data.*



Poody said:


> No. For your WOT fueling, you want to adjust maps in the maestro suite. The two that are for Lambda target are called power enrichment and full load lambda. Set them around .82-.85
> 
> Then reduce timing using the pump gas timing map. Pull timing from the rpm and load areas that you were encountering knock.


*Theres a little more to it than just dumping fuel, and dont confuse timing pull with knock, as theres a big difference. Knowing what lambda value for lean best torque along with thermal management, and how to apply it using Power Enrichment/Full Load Lambda is whats important.*


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> *Theres a little more to it than just dumping fuel, and dont confuse timing pull with knock, as theres a big difference. Knowing what lambda value for lean best torque along with thermal management, and how to apply it using Power Enrichment/Full Load Lambda is whats important.*


Who said anything about dumping fuel? I'm suggesting that he pull fuel because he's hitting 11:1 AFR at 14psi, and lost o2 corrections up top. I did misspeak by saying "knock" as opposed to timing pull. They are interchangeable terms in my head even though I do recognize their difference. As for my advice, I don't think it's in any way bad advice. He asked how he should go about adjusting WOT fuel so I pointed him to the maps that he can use to do that. And then I suggested he pull a few degrees of timing due to having 8-11 degrees of correction throughout the 3rd gear pull. 

Now maybe that won't immediately get him to the most optimal tune for his hardware, but running a reasonable afr and reducing timing pull is not a step in the wrong direction. 


Any input on that? Not trying to argue, just contribute to what this thread is for: Tuning advice and information on using maestro


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Poody said:


> Who said anything about dumping fuel? I'm suggesting that he pull fuel because he's hitting 11:1 AFR at 14psi, and lost o2 corrections up top. I did misspeak by saying "knock" as opposed to timing pull. They are interchangeable terms in my head even though I do recognize their difference. As for my advice, I don't think it's in any way bad advice. He asked how he should go about adjusting WOT fuel so I pointed him to the maps that he can use to do that. And then I suggested he pull a few degrees of timing due to having 8-11 degrees of correction throughout the 3rd gear pull.
> 
> Now maybe that won't immediately get him to the most optimal tune for his hardware, but running a reasonable afr and reducing timing pull is not a step in the wrong direction.
> 
> ...


If your talking about shnitzlwhatever (sorry) there is something wrong with his car hardware wise. 16psi and that much timing correction makes me think his knock sensors are messed up. A few gallons of race fuel on a really low tank will confirm that. I know Doug's turbos spew magma, but something isn't adding up


As far as 'dumping fuel' I'll give you hint. Power enrichment is based on torque request/rpm, full lambda is load actual/rpm. Each has a conditioner/constant when they turn on


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> If your talking about shnitzlwhatever (sorry) there is something wrong with his car hardware wise. 16psi and that much timing correction makes me think his knock sensors are messed up. A few gallons of race fuel on a really low tank will confirm that. I know Doug's turbos spew magma, but something isn't adding up
> 
> 
> As far as 'dumping fuel' I'll give you hint. Power enrichment is based on torque request/rpm, full lambda is load actual/rpm. Each has a conditioner/constant when they turn on


Correct. I am aware of this. Would you suggest leaning out power enrichment even further than .85? With a big turbo it makes sense to me to have less preemptive fuel to make more power and heat and get the thing spooled as fast as possible. Not that I've ever driven a hybrid setup, but as a hobbyist tuner, I would introduce more fuel just because I know that the turbo is already going to spool crazy fast and I would want more fuel to control temperature/possible knock. But hey, I have no formal training in EFI tuning and that just me doing what makes sense in my head. Have we seen his file to know what EGT full load lambda is set to trigger?

As for a knock sensor being bad, never even thought of that. I always assumed that a knock sensor would fail with no output and wouldn't give any feedback whatsoever, not cause all 4 cylinders to request crazy timing correction. But that was just my assumption. 

And schnitzel burner, it's never a bad idea to rule out hardware issues when you hit a wall in your tune. Not sure if you have tried much else but getting some high octane fuel in the tank is sound advice and I would take it


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Poody said:


> Correct. I am aware of this. Would you suggest leaning out power enrichment even further than .85? With a big turbo it makes sense to me to have less preemptive fuel to make more power and heat and get the thing spooled as fast as possible. Not that I've ever driven a hybrid setup, but as a hobbyist tuner, I would introduce more fuel just because I know that the turbo is already going to spool crazy fast and I would want more fuel to control temperature/possible knock. But hey, I have no formal training in EFI tuning and that just me doing what makes sense in my head. Have we seen his file to know what EGT full load lambda is set to trigger?
> 
> As for a knock sensor being bad, never even thought of that. I always assumed that a knock sensor would fail with no output and wouldn't give any feedback whatsoever, not cause all 4 cylinders to request crazy timing correction. But that was just my assumption.
> 
> And schnitzel burner, it's never a bad idea to rule out hardware issues when you hit a wall in your tune. Not sure if you have tried much else but getting some high octane fuel in the tank is sound advice and I would take it


Take the turbo size off the table

Really look at what I said about those two tables, and I'll add to that where ME7 always follows the richest requested lambda regardless of the table used. 

Look at the lambda table floating around Google that tells you specific data as to what makes best power etc. It's even in the first post of the big e85 thread in this forum. Report back with what you find, and figure out. I'm not going to give you the direct answer, because then you learn nothing LOL

As far as the timing correction, I made a pretty broad statement. Knock sensor could be loose, ****ty plugs, ****ty gas etc but there should not be that much timing pull for only 16lbs of boost and 10* of timing.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> You dont need 0.82 lambda at 3psi LOL. I would take out 2*, thats it.


Okay, I'll pull some timing on quick settings and run a few logs. 

What do you suggest I do about the boost? It's not reaching anywhere near what I'm requesting of it.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

kueckerdj09 said:


> Okay, I'll pull some timing on quick settings and run a few logs.
> 
> What do you suggest I do about the boost? It's not reaching anywhere near what I'm requesting of it.


Check for leaks

Your boost duty is over 80%, you should be seeing more. That is unless you have one of those fantastic franken**** actuators

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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> Check for leaks
> 
> Your boost duty is over 80%, you should be seeing more. That is unless you have one of those fantastic franken**** actuators
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


No leaks found. Holds boost great and doesn't drop off. 

...I think you may be right about the actuator..


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

kueckerdj09 said:


> No leaks found. Holds boost great and doesn't drop off.
> 
> ...I think you may be right about the actuator..


Run the wastegate direct to a pressure only source, leave the n75 plugged in electrically. I think doug claims for them to be calibrated for 12psi, so I would adjust preload until its at that level


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> Take the turbo size off the table
> 
> Really look at what I said about those two tables, and I'll add to that where ME7 always follows the richest requested lambda regardless of the table used.
> 
> ...


I did know about ME7 targeting richest lambda request from the s4 wiki. Also, I read a lot of the e85 thread when I was thinking of converting. Thanks for the info though. I'm sure it will be helpful to someone :beer:

I'm assuming what you're trying to get across is that power enrichment should target 13.5:1 AFR, because it produces more torque, and is a preemptive fuel target for a requested amount of load, which isn't instantaneously reached. Then when full load lambda triggers by egt model/when actual load builds up, the ecu will target whatever is set in full load lambda, assuming it is set richer than power enrichment. This is a similar to how my tune is set up, however I target slightly richer than that (.92 pre boost, then from 3500+ I have it taper from .89 to .86 slowly. That 13.5 number is off the top of my head, I'll check in a minute. 

I guess the way I thought of it was the small frame turbo builds boost so quickly, that load shoots up in the same fashion, as opposed to ramping up gradually on a larger frame. Because of that, I was assuming that running more fuel under power enrichment would prevent a sharp drop in fueling request that the car wouldn't be able to process fast enough. Now that I'm actually typing it out, it sounds a bit stupid though. I forget how smart the damn ecu is sometimes.


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## Schnitzelburnr (Nov 13, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> If your talking about shnitzlwhatever (sorry) there is something wrong with his car hardware wise. 16psi and that much timing correction makes me think his knock sensors are messed up. A few gallons of race fuel on a really low tank will confirm that. I know Doug's turbos spew magma, but something isn't adding up
> 
> 
> As far as 'dumping fuel' I'll give you hint. Power enrichment is based on torque request/rpm, full lambda is load actual/rpm. Each has a conditioner/constant when they turn on


I don't know where to get race gas. I have a different set of knock sensors I can switch these out for though so I can try that, it just seems weird to me that BOTH knock sensors are acting weird, and no codes are being thrown, is there something else that could be causing this? 
The car feels like it has no power until 3000rpm and then it wakes right up, like drastically, thought it might have at least some low end, could this be related, I've tried testing for boost leaks and all seems good there.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Schnitzelburnr said:


> I don't know where to get race gas. I have a different set of knock sensors I can switch these out for though so I can try that, it just seems weird to me that BOTH knock sensors are acting weird, and no codes are being thrown, is there something else that could be causing this?
> The car feels like it has no power until 3000rpm and then it wakes right up, like drastically, thought it might have at least some low end, could this be related, I've tried testing for boost leaks and all seems good there.


VP fuels and Sunoco have Race fuel locators on their sites. VP will also deliver it. 

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp-racing-dealers.html

http://www.racegas.com/fuelfinder


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

For the love of God lol

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Poody said:


> I did know about ME7 targeting richest lambda request from the s4 wiki. Also, I read a lot of the e85 thread when I was thinking of converting. Thanks for the info though. I'm sure it will be helpful to someone :beer:
> 
> I'm assuming what you're trying to get across is that power enrichment should target 13.5:1 AFR, because it produces more torque, and is a preemptive fuel target for a requested amount of load, which isn't instantaneously reached. Then when full load lambda triggers by egt model/when actual load builds up, the ecu will target whatever is set in full load lambda, assuming it is set richer than power enrichment. This is a similar to how my tune is set up, however I target slightly richer than that (.92 pre boost, then from 3500+ I have it taper from .89 to .86 slowly. That 13.5 number is off the top of my head, I'll check in a minute.
> 
> I guess the way I thought of it was the small frame turbo builds boost so quickly, that load shoots up in the same fashion, as opposed to ramping up gradually on a larger frame. Because of that, I was assuming that running more fuel under power enrichment would prevent a sharp drop in fueling request that the car wouldn't be able to process fast enough. Now that I'm actually typing it out, it sounds a bit stupid though. I forget how smart the damn ecu is sometimes.


DING DING lol

I usually leave it at 0.9 lambda, and let full load lambda take it from there. I like'm rich, and after seeing on a dyno (yes I know Ive said otherwise in the past) that it makes little difference in power thats how they will run. Of course Im talking at high loads of course here.

You have to remember as well that a small turbo will build boost quickly, but will also build heat quickly. Where full load lambda kicks in will be somewhat consistent, and you will see a change in requested lambda in the logs as well.


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## Schnitzelburnr (Nov 13, 2009)

I'm the guy with the crazy timing advance and knock posting earlier, I am actually throwing a code sometimes. I'm throwing a P1297(pressure drop between turbo and throttle valve), however I have a mbc installed set to 15psi and the target boost for the f21 550cc base file is 22ish psi. I'm quite sure I don't actually have a boost leak, I pressure tested the system, and have a fairly smooth idle. Would it just throw the code because its not reaching target boost? Is it bad to do what I'm doing? should I modify the target boost in the tune?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Schnitzelburnr said:


> I'm the guy with the crazy timing advance and knock posting earlier, I am actually throwing a code sometimes. I'm throwing a P1297(pressure drop between turbo and throttle valve), however I have a mbc installed set to 15psi and the target boost for the f21 550cc base file is 22ish psi. I'm quite sure I don't actually have a boost leak, I pressure tested the system, and have a fairly smooth idle. Would it just throw the code because its not reaching target boost? Is it bad to do what I'm doing? should I modify the target boost in the tune?


Why you using a MBC for a F21 :sly:


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## Schnitzelburnr (Nov 13, 2009)

To control spikes, and I want ensure the car is running properly before I turn up the boost

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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Schnitzelburnr said:


> To control spikes, and I want ensure the car is running properly before I turn up the boost
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2


There's absolutely no need to run a MBC to control spikes. There's many people on here running my files for Frankenturbo with no need for the MBC and that's controlling boost from 18psi to 30psi and in between. If they want a spike it can be added. It's not that hard. Lost the MBC it's pointless.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

I am running the 630 s4 maf file. Was building an intake with the s4 maf bung welded right into it. So in the meantime I was running my stock 225 maf. After replacing the maf sensor (other one **** out on me) the car ran/idled perfectly. Now that the slightly larger intake( 3" ID) is on with early s4 sensor, it idles like crap. Almost stalls but catches itself. You guys think the ecu adapted to the slightly smaller maf housing and now needs time to adapt back to the 3" ID like the tune calls for? Or could this be something else? Smoke tested for vac leaks already 

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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

just to confirm, you were running the TT MAF with the S4 MAF file and it ran perfectly?


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Yes, after replacing the sensor, idled perfect atleast. Didn't really get into too much boost

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Why not change it in the file so everything is correct?


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

It should be now, 630cc with b5 s4 (early) maf sensor and housing. I'm just saying the idle was better with the 225 maf housing. Wondering if its because I ran it with the 225 maf housing for awhile that the ecu adjusted a bit for the smaller housing. And now that the correct, but bigger housing is on, it needs some run time to smooth it out? Just seeing if anyone had this happen. If it doesn't smooth out on its own I'll see in the file if it can be smoothed out with some playing around. I'm new at this so I'm trying to get some guidance 

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I'm not sure what your getting at

If you have a tt225 MAF sensor, change it in your file

If you run a b5s4 MAF sensor, change it in your file

Only adapting it does is by fuel trims, but when a maf is your main load input, if it's not correct it will throw everything off


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

euroguy666 said:


> II'm just saying the idle was better with the 225 maf housing. Wondering if its because I ran it with the 225 maf housing for awhile that the ecu adjusted a bit for the smaller housing. And now that the correct, but bigger housing is on, it needs some run time to smooth it out?


If so, then simple, clear codes to reset adaptation. Done.


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## Schnitzelburnr (Nov 13, 2009)

Hey so I tried switching out both my knock sensors for some other ones I had laying around, it seems to me like nothing changed, still lose my 02 correction up top, lots of knock correction everywhere, seems like more than before. The car feels sort of weird under heavy load, it almost felt sort of gutless during my third pull up hill, really flattened out, sort of uneven power too. Also, not sure if this seems normal but I got 31 mpg combined city and highway driving like an a$$hole, seems too good haha. Could my 02 sensor be reading richer than I am actually running? pulled plugs and they look normal.

Here's a recent log from idle, briefly 1st and 2nd then 3rd

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pOA3XNiO9OLW9TTy13ZFhEV0U/edit?usp=sharing


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Go splash a few gallons of 110oct in there

Your showing 10 degrees of timing pull at part throttle. There is a hardware problem

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## Schnitzelburnr (Nov 13, 2009)

So just run the tank low and throw in some 110 octane fuel, change the quicktune set up to race fuel? then post a log?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

No put race fuel in and then log, don't change anything

And here is why, when trying to track down an issue/problem, this is why you only want to change one variable at a time.


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## Schnitzelburnr (Nov 13, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> No put race fuel in and then log, don't change anything
> 
> And here is why, when trying to track down an issue/problem, this is why you only want to change one variable at a time.


Yah that makes sense, wasn't sure if I would wreck anything leaving it on pump gas
other than my knock sensors which I tried switching out, what else could it be? cam position sensor, 02 sensor? 
Asked a couple buddies trying to figure out where to get race gas in a smaller town in Canada ahaha 

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

If 02 sensors fail in the sense of giving poor data, sure it's possible.

Anything leaded over 110oct isn't going to detonate or pull timing with 15psi on a frankenturd and 10° of timing


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

At 15 psi I can get over 22* on pump with no corrections. 15 psi and 10* shouldn't be an issue at all. Colder plugs than stock and tighter gap should be first things to address unless there is another issue at hand


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## Schnitzelburnr (Nov 13, 2009)

spartiati said:


> At 15 psi I can get over 22* on pump with no corrections. 15 psi and 10* shouldn't be an issue at all. Colder plugs than stock and tighter gap should be first things to address unless there is another issue at hand


 Running colder plugs bkr7e or whatever at .028" gap can't figure out why the car is pinging, it's not even at full boost sometimes when I hear the detonation now, just heavy load, hearing it at like 2700-3000rpm now, knock correction everywhere all the time


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

when maestro software updates are issued, is there a changelog that goes along with that?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Are you filling up at reputable gas stations or at those elcheapo places? I had an issue with cheap gas station gas one time right before waterfest. Was running low on gas and pulled into one place. Drove to waterfest logging my car only to see 12* of timing correction under low boost with water meth. Next gas tank I filled up at a BP and my car was running just as it was before.


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## Schnitzelburnr (Nov 13, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Are you filling up at reputable gas stations or at those elcheapo places? I had an issue with cheap gas station gas one time right before waterfest. Was running low on gas and pulled into one place. Drove to waterfest logging my car only to see 12* of timing correction under low boost with water meth. Next gas tank I filled up at a BP and my car was running just as it was before.


I fill up at chevron, which is the gas station everyone recommends for performance type cars up here in Canada lol


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## racinmasonc (Aug 3, 2008)

I have an awp is there a way to turn off the time it takes on a hot start to start o2 corrections? Mine on hot starts it waits like a min to start correcting but during that time its running about 18:1 afr. 

Gt3071r
630cc mafless file


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

If it's actually running that lean on your wideband gauge, not the readout in Maestro, then your injector constant is waay off

Otherwise there isn't much you can do as the ecu is warming up the 02 sensor for the first 30 seconds or so


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

gitman said:


> when maestro software updates are issued, is there a changelog that goes along with that?


*bump* seems like an easier one


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

No there isn't

I suspect it's mostly for the med9 and med17 that the updates are for, as the ME7 stuff is pretty stable


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Alright now how many of you that are mafless have been using no lift shift successfully. Its been a while since I've had a go with my own setup. For some reason 175ms seems to be the only case when the feature has worked correctly for me every time (by correctly I mean it holds rpm without soaring to redline). That time really isn't ideal for flat shifting in my setup because it simply isn't enough time.

Should start off with at least 350ms and dial it in from there but 355ms doesn't work at all. 
200ms seems to work after shift has happened. RPM's will soar so I shift normally and I get a backfire after gear change has happened with clutch pedal released. 
I think there maybe a flaw in the routine or in the ignition cut durations factor/offset.

Other than that when the feature is enabled every normal part throttle shift goes super rich and backfires happen. This is not the case when its disabled. Anyone have a bit of insite? I tryed discussing this issue before with chris a while back and got no response. I'll attempt it again though.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I'm not maffless, but I'll agree it being on 100% of the time is really annoying. I wish there was a TPS conditioner a logic added to the routine that controls the nls


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Yeah unfortunately my setup really needs it so if I don't get a response after spending nearly 3000+$ on credits between me and my friends/customers on editing flash software I think it will be time to jump ship, dump the eeprom and flash back to stock to start from scratch.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

I have a BEA ecu with vvt in my AMU car (for wideband conversion) the base map is for the BEA. I don't have vvt in my car. Is there a way to "turn it off" in the tune? Or does it not matter?

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Just resistor it. Should do the trick


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Just resistor it. Should do the trick


I don't have vvt in the harness.... Its an AMU TT. The ecu in the car came from an 04 TT with vvt

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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

So I figured out the problem with NLS at least in part throttle driving :laugh:. So its simply a timer activated by the clutch switch and is always on. So learning to flat shift under normal driving conditions has solved the backfire issue. So the extra heat generated from ignition cuts even in normal driving conditions maybe triggering a "overrunn" mode every time you go to an unthrottled mode which leads to rev hangs and a rich mix. If you keep throttle on between part throttle shifts then you prevent overrunn. I havn't had the balls to try WOT again just yet but I have a feeling a slight let off like 15% throttle may help WOT flat shifting. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I left mine on for like 3 weeks doing that lol

Even with a K03 it's still pretty nuts to use when going full tilt, and the looks on people's faces is priceless


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Morning guys. I know this question has been covered but after looking at several pages I can't find it.

**Some people have talked about that when coming to a stop the rpms will fall to around 500rpms, then surge for a second to 2-3k rpms, and then stabilize. How was this solved? This is using the SEM mani 70mm throttle file. (maffless).

On another note: **The above mentioned file is a VVT file, and I haven't have much luck with it in the past, therefore, what other file can be used and what maps can be imported to make it a 75mm throttle map? If not, anything that needs to be done to the 70mm file that will work fine with a 75mm throttle? The car seems to be running fine, but if there is room for improvement, it is welcome.

Last, the car takes up to a minute for the ac compressor to kick in.....anybody has the same issue? Thanks in advance


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

a4e3y5 said:


> Morning guys. I know this question has been covered but after looking at several pages I can't find it.
> 
> **Some people have talked about that when coming to a stop the rpms will fall to around 500rpms, then surge for a second to 2-3k rpms, and then stabilize. How was this solved? This is using the SEM mani 70mm throttle file. (maffless).
> 
> ...


I've tried from time to time to make the VVT files work, and while they are okay something isn't right.

You can import/export tables from one to the next without issue if you wish. I'd suggest using a non VVT file to see if the issue still exist, and if it does then start checking forbleaks


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I've been back and forth between VVT and non-VVT files many times.

Here is what I can say from my experience:

Non-VVT file:
Idles, drives around town buttery smooth with my 70mm TB.
Main issue is a big one for me. For some reason the ecu thinks that the load is basically the same for 15psi and for 23psi. I never touched the torque tables and this gives me wacky timing advance and fueling that is all over under full throttle. I may revert back and play around with this in the future. Also there are times where timing requested is 21* and the car is running 21* but also correcting 11.25*. Where the hell did that come from?

VVT file:
Cold startups are rough idling with the VVT enabled. The IE intake can must not play nice with cold start. Idling is smooth, but there is an occasional (not all the time) hiccup between 1400-1800rpms cruising around with little throttle input. Aside from that from 2000-redline it is smooth throughout. This file type runs the requested timing I want within the timing maps as well as reads the load properly for my two boost levels. Fueling is spot on. The other main issue is cruise control. Do not just hit the clutch while driving with the cruise control set. It will shoot the rpms way up there. This isn't present in the nonVVT file...

A bit of a ramble but you get the point... I'm currently on the VVT file even though I have disabled the VVT while driving around. I don't really need it with my quick spooling f23


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

spartiati said:


> I've been back and forth between VVT and non-VVT files many times.
> 
> Here is what I can say from my experience:
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Dave are you talking about the low rpm hiccup? There are times were the car can sometime buck if in low rpms just barely applying throttle lets say in stop and go traffic. Have to lift and let it settle before getting back into it. Glad to hear its not just my car/setup because I can't tell you how long I've fought to fix it...


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Yea

I played with accel fueling and managed to get it half way decent, but it still did it consistently

It gets to the point of diminishing returns, and other than maybe getting a larger turbo to light a few hundred rpm faster it isn't worth chasing your tail for 90% of the other issues


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

spartiati said:


> other main issue is cruise control. Do not just hit the clutch while driving with the cruise control set. It will shoot the rpms way up there. This isn't present in the nonVVT file..


this sounds exactly like when my clutch position switch started to go


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I too have played with accel fuel a decent amount and its helped, but like you said, not worth the time to figure it all out...

My clutch switch is brand new. It has to do with the VVT files. It did not do that on the nonVVT file at all...


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Nice to know its not just the hemi throttle calibration. If you watch the "mode" block when your at part throttle and go to decel or depress clutch to move to an idle position the "mode" goes from "part throttle" to "enrichment" to "overrunn". The enrichment is not caused by BTS or enrichment threshold according to my logs. I'm pretty sure when this happens Lmabda isn't even targeting a rich mix but I'll run more logs to make sure of this. It seems lambda request stays at 1 then actaul drops too .8. I may try more adjustments in decel fuel but it probably won't solve the issue. 

No return on the questions asked, he's pushing me to go it alone which is truly sad. What is the big deal with adding an RPM trigger for the NLS function?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Because it will require a lot of disassembly work, and probably something that will require a ton of work . But then again why he didn't think to add a TPS conditioner to the nls/anti lag circuit I don't know


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

No dissassembly needed.:laugh: The routine for the function is placed to a unused section of the binary. I'm not sure if he developed an application that automatically searches a binary to place the routine but I'm sure he has one all he would need is to add it. I have done it on stock 01 avant. I just haven't had the need to ditch maestro until recently. Its simple to add a rpm trigger if he's the one that has been programming the application. Either he uses a third party or he is just being difficult.


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

*af guage*

with mastero tuning and logging, is it worth while getting a wideband AF guage? iv got oil psi, oil temp, boost right now thanks


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I might be considered a little callous here, but if you have a wideband native car then no.


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> I might be considered a little callous here, but if you have a wideband native car then no.


yes its a wideband awp motor


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Maxpowerz said:


> yes its a wideband awp motor


I have one to keep an eye on cold starts before o2 kicks in which is nice to have specially if you don't want to lug your laptop around.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Hi everyone...my friend's car is throwing a "failed to start communications....check connections and make sure key is on" message. Ignition was on, we tried three laptops and a different cable (not powertapp) and no luck. It looks like it is going to connect but it doesn't...no yellow light come on. It doesn't throw the "unable to connect" or "unable to find id" or something like that. Pointers are appreciated.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

a4e3y5 said:


> Hi everyone...my friend's car is throwing a "failed to start communications....check connections and make sure key is on" message. Ignition was on, we tried three laptops and a different cable (not powertapp) and no luck. It looks like it is going to connect but it doesn't...no yellow light come on. It doesn't throw the "unable to connect" or "unable to find id" or something like that. Pointers are appreciated.


Does the car run?

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

euroguy666 said:


> Does the car run?
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


Yeap. Car is currently running.


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## dannybarone (Oct 16, 2006)

a4e3y5 said:


> Yeap. Car is currently running.


Will any other device connect to the car? 

Also does it have a aftermarket radio? 


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

dannybarone said:


> Will any other device connect to the car?
> 
> Also does it have a aftermarket radio?
> 
> ...


Yeap...he went to autozone and could access the ECU. And yes, I believe he has an aftermarket radio, but he has had it for the longest time. It is only now that he has had this problem.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

a4e3y5 said:


> Yeap...he went to autozone and could access the ECU. And yes, I believe he has an aftermarket radio, but he has had it for the longest time. It is only now that he has had this problem.


If he's taken his lower dash off lately maybe the obd plug that plugs to the back of the port is loose or he forgot to plug it back in?

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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

euroguy666 said:


> If he's taken his lower dash off lately maybe the obd plug that plugs to the back of the port is loose or he forgot to plug it back in?
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


Yeah. I asked him what has he done to the car lately, but he says he hasn't touched him. I emailed Chris about this, but you guys know it can take a bit before he responds. If anybody has gone through this you are welcome to chime in. Thx to all who replied.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

If auto zone can connect with there system maybe just get a new printer cable tgat connects the Eurodyne dongle to laptop. The ones that are provided only work so long (there cheap). I was having issues a while back and that's all it was


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

One-Eight GTI said:


> If auto zone can connect with there system maybe just get a new printer cable tgat connects the Eurodyne dongle to laptop. The ones that are provided only work so long (there cheap). I was having issues a while back and that's all it was


Tried it. Got my friend's cable and tried it but no luck.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I thought I'd do a little update on my end,

I know how everyone is all about who can make the biggest numbers but I've _almost_ perfected my daily driver file and it's quite nice 

Since I live in NOVA traffic is a bïtch and I have to routinely drive 100-500 miles in a day, and sometimes more. I decided to make a file that is smooth as butter, gets great mileage and to top it all off runs on regular gas (87octane).

This file runs with no water meth, and I'm getting anywhere from 33-35MPG! So cheaper fuel, more miles and the next plus... It's still as quick as a stock Jetta, maybe a bit faster.

*Economy File Specs:
*

Boost- 08psi / 87octane (max recorded MPG 35)
11psi / 89octane (max recorded MPG 32)
12psi / 93octane (max recorded MPG 32)

Timing- Occasional 1 - 3 deg pull on cyl 4 (seems to be caused by heat)

Throttle Response- Smooth and very linear (feels almost right on 1:1)

I'm figuring with WMI turned on I can gain a bit more MPG on 87 octane, I've also learned lowering the boost below 7 psi doesn't gain any MPG worth the effort. 

My goal for the next few revisions are to see how VVT helps (or hurts) mileage. I'm also going to experiment with more timing, since that should help mileage but I need to be weary of knock with the low octane fuel. 

My ultimate goal is to get 40mpg (I know it's not going to happen; but hey, aim high or don't bother). The other secondary goal is to still have a fun driving car. It's not going to win any races, but it's still not like driving a 2.slow. 

If anyone has any suggestions for increasing mileage for this tuning project / experiment I'd love to hear them!  

Thanx 
-M


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

I need some guidance:

I have the Stg3 VVT 630cc 70mmTB base file and the MB032 LTFT are -7 to -6 @idle, respectively +-0.5 @ cruising. This is after adjusting IC and BVC a few times.

What is the best way to adjust idle trims ?

A) Further attempt to decrease BVC by -7% x IC, OR 
B) manipulate 1st column in "Injection Correction map" OR 
C) log idle in several loading conditions (AC, lights on, etc) and trace hystogram for idle in "Injection Correction map?
D) any other suggestion

Please bear with me if the question seems stupid! Your input will be highly appreciated! (I have a few more Q's)


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

rogerius said:


> I need some guidance:
> 
> I have the Stg3 VVT 630cc 70mmTB base file and the MB032 LTFT are -7 to -6 @idle, respectively +-0.5 @ cruising. This is after adjusting IC and BVC a few times.
> 
> ...


You have a rough idle I'm assuming? Which 630's did you get? Had an issue with my idle aswell. Read about the seimens/deka injectors not having the right spray pattern for a 5v head. Causing the bad idle. I ditched my seimens 630s for Bosch ev14 1000cc. I'll report back when they go in tomorrow

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Lean out your target lambda if you haven't already.

You can cruise 15.5+ without issue, just timing may need a little extra advance to prevent surging

TDI 5th would help, but that's a considerable expense


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Well, 1000cc injectors are in, tune loaded. Idled great until the car warmed up. And it kinda "bogs" down and stumbles a bit when first slipping the clutch (almost like there's too much fuel) until it clears out. You guys think its just too rich of an idle? Should I correct using the battery voltage compensation? My car is a stroked to 2008cc. I haven't even looked at the injector wizard yet either 

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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

euroguy666 said:


> Well, 1000cc injectors are in, tune loaded. Idled great until the car warmed up. And it kinda "bogs" down and stumbles a bit when first slipping the clutch (almost like there's too much fuel) until it clears out. You guys think its just too rich of an idle? Should I correct using the battery voltage compensation? My car is a stroked to 2008cc. I haven't even looked at the injector wizard yet either
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


is the 1000cc tune for a specific brand of 1000cc injectors? if you're using different ones than what the tune is setup for, then my understanding is that you do have to adjust the BVC. i don't think you should really have to touch injector wizard unless you're using a different FPR than what the tune calls for (assuming it's already setup for 1000cc like you said). someone please correct me if i'm wrong...


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

The 1000cc file is for the Bosch ev14's which is the ones I bought and installed. I mentioned the injector wizard because I assumed the file was written with a 1781cc or whatever 1.8t stock bore and stroke are... The injector wizard asks you displacement of the engine so I figured it would effect it in some way

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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

gitman said:


> is the 1000cc tune for a specific brand of 1000cc injectors? if you're using different ones than what the tune is setup for, then my understanding is that you do have to adjust the BVC. i don't think you should really have to touch injector wizard unless you're using a different FPR than what the tune calls for (assuming it's already setup for 1000cc like you said). someone please correct me if i'm wrong...


Adjust BVC values to the injector dynamics numbers. The BVC value in the 1000cc base file is too high.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Adjust BVC values to the injector dynamics numbers. The BVC value in the 1000cc base file is too high.


Where can I find those numbers at? The ID1000 numbers are okay? Not the numbers from Bosch? I know the ID's are reworked Bosch units from what I understand. Could be wrong. But just want to make sure. Also, should I change my injector constant to allow for my extra displacement? 

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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

euroguy666 said:


> Where can I find those numbers at? The ID1000 numbers are okay? Not the numbers from Bosch? I know the ID's are reworked Bosch units from what I understand. Could be wrong. But just want to make sure. Also, should I change my injector constant to allow for my extra displacement?
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


Use the numbers from the 550cc table in this link: http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=320.0

Those are the values I use for my 1000's.

All 1000cc EV14 injectors are basically modified versions of the standard bosch 550cc injector. The internals of the injector are the same which is why the opening and closing times should be the same.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Use the numbers from the 550cc table in this link: http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=320.0
> 
> Those are the values I use for my 1000's.
> 
> All 1000cc EV14 injectors are basically modified versions of the standard bosch 550cc injector. The internals of the injector are the same which is why the opening and closing times should be the same.


Alright. I see what you're talking about. I'll give it a go. Thanks for the help. I'll report back. 

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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

euroguy666 said:


> Alright. I see what you're talking about. I'll give it a go. Thanks for the help. I'll report back.
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


Also, do you have flow sheets for your 1000cc injectors. Most 1000cc units don't really flow a true 1000cc, more like 960cc or even less. This will affect your injector constant. I think chris tapp sets the basefile to .032xx but my Injector connstant is closer to .034 since my injectors are flowed to around 950cc @3bar. something else for you to keep in mind.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Even plugging a 1000cc value into the injector constant is enough to get it running well, and then dial it in from there with block 32 values


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Also, do you have flow sheets for your 1000cc injectors. Most 1000cc units don't really flow a true 1000cc, more like 960cc or even less. This will affect your injector constant. I think chris tapp sets the basefile to .032xx but my Injector connstant is closer to .034 since my injectors are flowed to around 950cc @3bar. something else for you to keep in mind.


Yeah, I changed my constant. I'm bored and stroked to 2008cc so I did that with 1000cc. .036852. That's what I got from the wizard. To answer your question about the flow chart, no. I was expecting one from Pag Parts. But never got one. Would it be more accurate to convert 95lbs back to CC's? If not, I'll have to figure out where block 32 is to change in maestro. I'm very new at this. And if I do try to dial it in, how do I go about doing that? Up/down in what kind of increment?

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Dave926 said:


> Even plugging a 1000cc value into the injector constant is enough to get it running well, and then dial it in from there with block 32 values





euroguy666 said:


> Yeah, I changed my constant. I'm bored and stroked to 2008cc so I did that with 1000cc. .036852. That's what I got from the wizard. To answer your question about the flow chart, no. I was expecting one from Pag Parts. But never got one. Would it be more accurate to convert 95lbs back to CC's? If not, I'll have to figure out where block 32 is to change in maestro. I'm very new at this. And if I do try to dial it in, how do I go about doing that? Up/down in what kind of increment?
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


Flash the file drive for 40-50 miles and report back with block 32 values

What's your mod list?


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

euroguy666 said:


> You have a rough idle I'm assuming? Which 630's did you get? Had an issue with my idle aswell. Read about the seimens/deka injectors not having the right spray pattern for a 5v head. Causing the bad idle. I ditched my seimens 630s for Bosch ev14 1000cc. I'll report back when they go in tomorrow
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


My idle is pretty stable at 88o rpm. No problem.
Only the trims at idle i would like them closer to zero. 

I started with Tapp's BVC values and then i lowered the 13.3V value by 3%xIC which I calculated (the IC for the 1847cc displacement). I draw a curve with the max correction at 13,3v and from there proceeded graphically for the corrections of BVC at the other voltages of the table.I did not see the expected lowering of idle LTFT trims, though.

I was wondering if a direct drop of 5% in the table values of Injection Correction at idle (first 2 columns maybe with interpolation) would be a better way, if anyone has tried this approach?


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Flash the file drive for 40-50 miles and report back with block 32 values
> 
> What's your mod list?


Alright. Its a 2008cc stroker amu motor. (9.5:1 comp) BEA ecu with the unitronic wide band conversion. Gtx 3071. FSI coils. Bosch ev14 1000cc injectors. S4 maf sensor with 3" ID intake pipe with the maf bung welded right in. (No air straightener mesh. Possible issue?) 3" full exhaust. Catless. Its early and I just woke up. Lol anything else? 

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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

S4 sensor with MAF bung welded in is your issue. These sensors are very particular with the housing they are used in. Eurodyne basically only works with sensor and housing being used as a complete unit. 

With that said I'm sure you can make it work, but you'll have to rescale the MAF and use the MAF correction table to dial the MAF in.

Also make sure you are using the correct S4 sensor. Under the MAF profile tab click on the question mark and it'll tell you which part number for the maf sensor.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

I'll try to do that then aswell. I mean, the s4 housing and the pipe I have are the same ID. Figured that would get it close enough

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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm having a timing pull issue I can't seem to chase down. Even with pulling some timing on quick settings, I see no change. Here's the most recent log from today. Anyone have any thoughts?

F21, 3" MAF, EV14 550s, Walbro 255 inline

https://db.tt/sVq6mHEg


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Use the histogram to pull timing where needed, instead of globally with quick tune

Fix your fuel corrections as well, your looking a +20% correction factor which is not good

Overall I'd say your running too much timing but you've got a few things going on that need to be attended to

If you really want to push it that hard then your going to need WMI

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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> Use the histogram to pull timing where needed, instead of globally with quick tune
> 
> Fix your fuel corrections as well, your looking a +20% correction factor which is not good
> 
> ...


My actual vs requested engine load is really different too, any thoughts on that?


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Can I view/log block 32 from maestro logger? Or do I need to borrow my buddys vagcom?

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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

How are you logging request load? Maestro logger only uses "spec" and "actual calc" load. There is no request unless you know which measuring block is request load. On that subject for future reference has anyone figured out with measuring block is request load? I've been looking for a while and nothing strikes me as a possibility.

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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

In reference to leaning out cruising lambda target, what map/maps should be used to achieve this? I remember looking into that when I had first purchased maestro, and it looked fairly complex from what I read on nefmoto. I tried using full load lambda and power enrichment to target 15-16 under cruise, but apparently me7 has 1.05 lambda, around 15.3, as the leanest allowed lambda request, and those maps didn't effect my cruise AFR anyways. From what I remember, people were changing the voltage that the o2 sensor recognized as lambda 1 so it would think it was running stoich and would actually be targeting 16.x. The problem with that was every log from that point on would show an incorrect AFR because the ecu definition of lambda had shifted richer than actual. I don't remember the name of the thread but I believe I just searched for "tuning for mpg" or something along those lines.

I just cleaned my throttle body and although it wasn't even all that bad, I saw a 4mpg increase in mileage last tank. I would love to improve that further


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Lambda vs Temp

Or set EGT very very low and use full load lambda. 

Latter of the two I haven't tried yet


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

I think I fixed the idle issue. Bvc was the main culprit. I lowered the 8v column quite lower than 
What charts I've seen from different companies. It still is quite rich in the beginning of a clutch slip to a roll. Should I run a log and post it on here? Also, my o2 corrections are 0.00 until the sensor heats up a bit. After that, at idle they are pretty wild. -20 to -15ish but never settling. Is that normal?

Drove the car a bit today. Looked at block 32, all numbers were 0's. Possibly a hardware issue?

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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

euroguy666 said:


> I think I fixed the idle issue. Bvc was the main culprit. I lowered the 8v column quite lower than
> What charts I've seen from different companies. It still is quite rich in the beginning of a clutch slip to a roll. Should I run a log and post it on here? Also, my o2 corrections are 0.00 until the sensor heats up a bit. After that, at idle they are pretty wild. -20 to -15ish but never settling. Is that normal?
> 
> Drove the car a bit today. Looked at block 32, all numbers were 0's. Possibly a hardware issue?
> ...


Yes your car isn't trimming you have a hardware issue


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Okay, if that's the case, is it normally o2 sensor related? I can't remember if its the rear sensor or not. Maybe map sensor?

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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

euroguy666 said:


> Okay, if that's the case, is it normally o2 sensor related? I can't remember if its the rear sensor or not. Maybe map sensor?
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


No you probably have one of the emissions devices unplugged or something.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> No you probably have one of the emissions devices unplugged or something.


Yeah, I don't have any of that. Sai/evap ect ect. Just resistor it?

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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

euroguy666 said:


> Yeah, I don't have any of that. Sai/evap ect ect. Just resistor it?
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


all needs to be properly resistored or your car won't trim.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

False ^ 

All you need to resistor is your evap purge solenoid circuit. Everything else can be unplugged which is my current setup. Just make sure you remove the faults in maestro.

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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Budsdubbin said:


> False ^
> 
> All you need to resistor is your evap purge solenoid circuit. Everything else can be unplugged which is my current setup. Just make sure you remove the faults in maestro.
> 
> Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


Is that the only plug on the passenger side of the motor?


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> False ^
> 
> All you need to resistor is your evap purge solenoid circuit. Everything else can be unplugged which is my current setup. Just make sure you remove the faults in maestro.
> 
> Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


I think they all come checked off. You mean in the diag section down at the bottom of the list? Where the 2step and NLS stuff is?

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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Yes the plug on the passenger side. And the switches are under the diagnose tab.

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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Yes the plug on the passenger side. And the switches are under the diagnose tab.
> 
> Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


Cool. Thanks. Ordered those nifty oem plug-style resistors from UroTuning. Gonna start there with a clean base file. We'll see how it goes

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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

euroguy666 said:


> Cool. Thanks. Ordered those nifty oem plug-style resistors from UroTuning. Gonna start there with a clean base file. We'll see how it goes
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


Keep us posted.


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

what's the story on buying a used Maestro cable and ECU? since i'd be getting the ECU that was used with the cable, does that still mean I have to pay a license transfer fee?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Some of the earlier cars do not link the VIN to the ecu, so its not a problem. I think DMVDUB made out okay in this aspect, otherwise I believe the credits are ~$500. You would also need their username and password to ensure there isnt an issue with downloading any updates

I would ask Tapp, but just get ready for his sometimes less than ideal response


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

if you're buying used, chances are you'll need the instrument cluster from the car as well, or you'll be buying a new license as Dave said. it didnt used to be this way, but with the mk4 platform getting older and more people parting and selling their cars with maestro cables, or people just giving up with it more are being sold and becoming second and third hand items. you may get lucky, you may not.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

So I got the resistors from Justin at UroTuning. Dude is awesome. Peices are really nice too. We figured out I have one of the AMU cars that has two 2 prong connectors for evap on the pass side, not just one 3 prong like most. Plugged them both in, along with the N249 under the intake manifold. Reflashed the 1000cc base file... Fired it up, and let it idle. It smoothed out pretty well within a minute or so. Took it on some errands, no idle searching! Still needs some other driveability tinkering. But I'm stoked I don't look like a fool sitting at a light anymore! Gonna drive it more today and see what my block 32 looks like and I'll report back with actual numbers

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Didn't get too much time with her today to let the trims settle too much. Noticed at idle my maf is reporting 8-9g/s. Suuuper high obviously. I have a feeling its why my car is bogging down in the beginning. I just don't see why it would be showing that high. The intake pipe is3" id just the the s4 housing.. Anyone mess with their flowmeter corrections map to help with a custom intake/with a maf? 

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## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

has anyone passed a MA emissions with this?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

euroguy666 said:


> Didn't get too much time with her today to let the trims settle too much. Noticed at idle my maf is reporting 8-9g/s. Suuuper high obviously. I have a feeling its why my car is bogging down in the beginning. I just don't see why it would be showing that high. The intake pipe is3" id just the the s4 housing.. Anyone mess with their flowmeter corrections map to help with a custom intake/with a maf?
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


Something isn't right.

If you have good injector data then consider running Mafless


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

shouldn't he run the S4 MAF sensor as well? I didn't think that maestro lets you swap just the housing.


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

Does any one know the cost of additional "tokens" to allow me to flash another car is mine (in addition to the TT) with my existing cable? 

Just picked up a 06 passat wagon with 2.0t and I would like to stick with eurodyne...


Joe


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> Does any one know the cost of additional "tokens" to allow me to flash another car is mine (in addition to the TT) with my existing cable?
> 
> Just picked up a 06 passat wagon with 2.0t and I would like to stick with eurodyne...
> 
> ...


$500 US for credits toward another VW/Audi is what Mr. Tapp told me the other day


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

Considering the cost of a tune through APR and the lot...that isn't bad I suppose. 

The extra tunability (though, not sure how crazy I would go with the Passat) is nice as well. 

Too bad eurodyne didn't run "sales"

How has the response been to Stg1/2 FSI 2.0T tunes ? 


Joe


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

gitman said:


> shouldn't he run the S4 MAF sensor as well? I didn't think that maestro lets you swap just the housing.


It is. Well that's what I ordered atleast. I think part numbers are the same for Bosch units 

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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

euroguy666 said:


> It is. Well that's what I ordered atleast. I think part numbers are the same for Bosch units
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


ah OK, I misunderstood


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> Considering the cost of a tune through APR and the lot...that isn't bad I suppose.
> 
> The extra tenability (though, not sure how crazy I would go with the Passat) is nice as well.
> 
> ...


Don't think it's much different when it comes to mild stage 1/2 stuff.

I know there's a few users but most of them just run canned or pirated tunes


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Something isn't right.
> 
> If you have good injector data then consider running Mafless


Here's what I think. My engine load at idle is in the 50's. My maf signal is 8-9g/s. I think my maf isn't scaled properly there for throwing off my engine load calculations. Not 100% on that but its a hunch. If I can't get my maf scaled (if anyone has pointers on that I'd be greatful) I'll consider unplugging the maf and seeing if it runs better.

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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Your idle should be 3-4 g/s so start off 10% on the mad correction down low. Or rescale the curve all together.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

I think the whole thing needs to be rescaled. I haven't touched those maps so I'd assume its off because of my custom intake

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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Some of the earlier cars do not link the VIN to the ecu, so its not a problem. I think DMVDUB made out okay in this aspect, otherwise I believe the credits are ~$500. You would also need their username and password to ensure there isnt an issue with downloading any updates
> 
> I would ask Tapp, but just get ready for his sometimes less than ideal response


Yes I did  It was from a Corrado Swap


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Can someone help me out with getting a MAF to work? I've been running mafless for awhile and picked up a larger MAF. I've tried every preset MAF option and everytime the car stumbles hard then falls on it's face and stalls shortly after startup.

Part # 0 280 218 038
OD is about 3.5"
ID is 3"

Do I need to swap my stock sensor in or is there a preset for this one? I'm out of ideas but I'd really like this to work.

Thanks


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

burkechrs1 said:


> Can someone help me out with getting a MAF to work? I've been running mafless for awhile and picked up a larger MAF. I've tried every preset MAF option and everytime the car stumbles hard then falls on it's face and stalls shortly after startup.
> 
> Part # 0 280 218 038
> OD is about 3.5"
> ...


S4 maf? Should be a preset in the flowmeter settings. Should be an s4 sensor with housing. Hopefully you have a bit more luck with it than I do

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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

euroguy666 said:


> S4 maf? Should be a preset in the flowmeter settings. Should be an s4 sensor with housing. Hopefully you have a bit more luck with it than I do
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


Hmm i hadn't had any luck with that preset. I'll give it another shot.


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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

How does one add injector duty cycle? Currently running about 45% at 3 bar on my 550s. I'm planning to go to a 5 bar regulator with the same injectors on e85. I'll be changing the injector constant and battery voltage levels with the built in calculator. Just want some advice on what map to change for duty cycle.

Thanks :beer:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

What's your fuel system and turbo setup, because 550s at 5 bar plus whatever boost and E85 I hope you have an 044 in there.

You need to tell the injector wizard that your injectors are 30% smaller than what they actually are at your 5bar of base pressure.


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## turbo2.24.1990 (Jun 2, 2008)

Anyone have access to a base file for a simple stage one flash for maestro that they'd be willing to share with me-stock everything: turbo, injectors, manifold, maf sensor, etc. with all the deletes? tia


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

You can download it from the base file library


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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> What's your fuel system and turbo setup, because 550s at 5 bar plus whatever boost and E85 I hope you have an 044 in there.
> 
> You need to tell the injector wizard that your injectors are 30% smaller than what they actually are at your 5bar of base pressure.


It's an F21 with EV14 550s, a new stock intank pump and a walbro 255 inline pump. It's currently running 22 psi. 

I got my injector constant set and fuel trims look good, less than +/- 5% but I am still seeing a lot of 02 correction under load and timing pull. Do I need to change my injector correction map 30% as well?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

kueckerdj09 said:


> It's an F21 with EV14 550s, a new stock intank pump and a walbro 255 inline pump. It's currently running 22 psi.
> 
> I got my injector constant set and fuel trims look good, less than +/- 5% but I am still seeing a lot of 02 correction under load and timing pull. Do I need to change my injector correction map 30% as well?


Without getting into all the math, your looking at 95psi of rail pressure at peak boost, that 255 is not a happy camper. Even an 044 wouldn't be happy either.

If your getting timing pull with E85 then you need to reconsider your timing curve as well.


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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> Without getting into all the math, your looking at 95psi of rail pressure at peak boost, that 255 is not a happy camper. Even an 044 wouldn't be happy either.
> 
> If your getting timing pull with E85 then you need to reconsider your timing curve as well.


I should clarify, this is simply me attempting to get my 5 bar set up to run on 91 octane pump gas. I haven't begun to start looking into e85 yet at all


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## iiii (Jun 8, 2014)

Would buying the flashloader and ecu used for a 557p aeb ecu work or would that entail doing what was stated? i.e. Cluster from the original car.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

kueckerdj09 said:


> I should clarify, this is simply me attempting to get my 5 bar set up to run on 91 octane pump gas. I haven't begun to start looking into e85 yet at all


Even on 91oct with that much pressure a 255 isn't going to cut it. Get bigger injectors and run at 3bar. I know of a set of Genesis2 1000s for sale if your interested, just PM me your email.

http://www.enginelogics.com/fuel-pump-sizing/


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

So I resistored my evap stuff on the passenger side. Block 32 stuff is now correcting after warm up. I didn't get to resistor the 2 prong plug that's run with the coil pack harness. Its a TT so it had that ugly box mounted to the valve cover. After that I'm gonna take her on a cruise. Then run a log. I'm still getting a soft limp mode if I get into boost. The next gear always makes 0psi. When running the log, what kind of parameters should I log? And how do I post it on here? Do I need Google drive on my lap top?

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Just use the maestro logger, for the most part it logs the correct data you need.

Drive tends to make things easier and its free


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

The way these base files are setup you shouldn't be running into limp. Make sure you have the N75 plugged in.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> The way these base files are setup you shouldn't be running into limp. Make sure you have the N75 plugged in.


Well, its plugged in, not plumed at the moment. I guess the log will show something. When I get into it. It makes the car worthless to drive.

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## racinmasonc (Aug 3, 2008)

*e85 2000cc injectors*

there any advice try to get my tune to idle right? E85 2000cc injectors mafless.. the idle bounces around.. notice timing going from -5 to 24 during this time..have messed with idle speed, alpha n and cant get it to have a steady idle..


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Post a log.

Whats your injector constant?


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/chuck/My%20Documents/Downloads/2014_5_26-20.23.12.DataLog.csv


doubt i did this right. havent used a laptop in like 3 years. this is two third gear pulls shifting to forth.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9nSORNcberddGhqYWhhV3ZPdzg/edit?usp=sharing


maybe this


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Need permission to open


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Need permission to open


Damn, thought I had it... I guess I gotta make it public or something?

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Yessir


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Yessir


I'll give it a shot in the morning

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## racinmasonc (Aug 3, 2008)

*gen2 2000cc injector e85 log*

heres my log: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QfI1hdQV-EHUOycOVdyrV-cT7Ylj-7FivskMhpgOpOY/edit?usp=sharing

my IC is for 1300cc injectors..
gen 2 2000cc injectors
e85 gt3071r at 30psi


at the end of the log i got it to act up at very very light throttle while cruising it goes really lean and cuts out like i left off the gas almost. i noticed it happens when its at 20in vacuum.. if i even get it to 19 vacuum it drives normal and corrects normal. i think this may be related with the idle also bouncing since its at 20 vacuum - 18 vacuum bouncing back and forth. any input would be great.. i can email my file and log to anyone that can figure this out! all i need is the light throttle fixed and idle better!


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## L.I.VW13 (Apr 9, 2006)

Has anyone using maestro been able to figure out a way to use a 3 or 4 bar map sensor from a tdi or golf r? I have one of each just sitting in my tool box and would love to use it so the ecu can see over 22 psi.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

L.I.VW13 said:


> Has anyone using maestro been able to figure out a way to use a 3 or 4 bar map sensor from a tdi or golf r? I have one of each just sitting in my tool box and would love to use it so the ecu can see over 22 psi.


Hey Tony. Chris Tapp had mentioned in some emails that this is something he would be able to do. He would just need to resacle the MAP sensor tables. You lose some overall resolution but it certainly is possible. With maestro, he would need to be the one to "patch" the file for you. Try contacting him directly. Hope all is well!


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## L.I.VW13 (Apr 9, 2006)

spartiati said:


> Hey Tony. Chris Tapp had mentioned in some emails that this is something he would be able to do. He would just need to resacle the MAP sensor tables. You lose some overall resolution but it certainly is possible. With maestro, he would need to be the one to "patch" the file for you. Try contacting him directly. Hope all is well!



Thanks so much man! Long time no see. I tried emailing him about it and it's been a few weeks and I haven't gotten a response yet. When we get the car up and running I'll have to just give him a call. Thanks again Steve!


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I've always had better luck speaking with him over the phone. I've had a few 30+ minute phone convos. With that said I feel like he's transitioned more towards the Porsche scene. Hopefully he will make that an available option though... 

Lmk when you get the car back together. Would love to come check it out


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## L.I.VW13 (Apr 9, 2006)

spartiati said:


> I've always had better luck speaking with him over the phone. I've had a few 30+ minute phone convos. With that said I feel like he's transitioned more towards the Porsche scene. Hopefully he will make that an available option though...
> 
> Lmk when you get the car back together. Would love to come check it out


Yeah I hope I get through to him. It would be nice to have the ecu see the boost that's actually being made. E85 and big boost for 2014. The car is together and will be at force fed next week getting the final pieces made


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Just use the maestro logger, for the most part it logs the correct data you need.
> 
> Drive tends to make things easier and its free


Can I just email you the log? I had to run another log because drive some how deleted my old one. Now drive doesn't work on my computer. Or my gf suggested using drop box? I don't know

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9nSORNcberdSkw2emVxRW9xVEU/edit?usp=docslist_api
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Holy balls is that rich

First thing I'll tell you is your still in limp mode. Requested boost is very low

Second those 02 corrections need to be fixed. 

Third, slow down the timing.

Finally, I'll assume your using a VVT file. They leave a lot to be desired for anything other than full throttle


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Yeah, I'm assuming its a vvt file too. I don't have vvt tho. The ecu that is in the car came from a vvt car. I'm just using that ecu because it was wideband. And also, this is the base file for my injectors. Just bvc turned down a bit to what all the charts say to from the manufacturer. And the corrections done in the wizard for a 2008cc motor with 1000cc injectors. That log was a 3rd gear from like 1700-6200rpm or something like that. But I left it going after I went into fourth and hard back on the throttle so you could see the ecu go into a limp mode

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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Now that I think of it, I don't thinks its a vvt file... Its the 1000cc BEA ecu file. It doesn't have the letters vvt anywhere in the title

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Its in a limp mode of some sort the entire time. Your boost requested is locked around 1500mb during the entire 3rd gear pull.

This usually happens when the n75 is not plugged in, or there is some kind of electrical fault.


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

ok it's the first time I ever post in the maestro thread cuz usually I always been able to figure out things myself. Car is a 2001 AWW. It ran pretty well last year with a GT3071R and "normal piping" file was the SEM with 70mm TB tweaked and running mafless ( most of the tweaks we're done on AlphaN/TB Vs airflow ). Manifold was a homebrew so that's why thse maps we're to be modified.

This year my friend switched to a Precision 5858, different homebrew intake manifold and changed piping diameter ( 4" inlet , 2.5" outlet to intercooler and 3" to TB ). Still same injectors wich are siemens 630cc @ 4 bar

I've been able to tune WOT and part throttle to a pretty decent behavior but the idle drives me crazy... Regardless of what I try it is always super lean ( 1.45 to 1.67 lambda ) so before trying 1000 tweaks I'd like to know advice of people who had to deal with this just to give me a few hints on where to look.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Unless I have the n75 plugged in the wrong plug, which I don't think I do, then I don't see why it would be doing that. It makes 15psi off the WG and then holds me at no boost after I change gears. But its only for a few seconds. Almost like a soft limp mode. There's no "VVT button" right? The only vvt file I see in the base files is for awp motors

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Volksdude27 said:


> ok it's the first time I ever post in the maestro thread cuz usually I always been able to figure out things myself. Car is a 2001 AWW. It ran pretty well last year with a GT3071R and "normal piping" file was the SEM with 70mm TB tweaked and running mafless ( most of the tweaks we're done on AlphaN/TB Vs airflow ). Manifold was a homebrew so that's why thse maps we're to be modified.
> 
> This year my friend switched to a Precision 5858, different homebrew intake manifold and changed piping diameter ( 4" inlet , 2.5" outlet to intercooler and 3" to TB ). Still same injectors wich are siemens 630cc @ 4 bar
> 
> I've been able to tune WOT and part throttle to a pretty decent behavior but the idle drives me crazy... Regardless of what I try it is always super lean ( 1.45 to 1.67 lambda ) so before trying 1000 tweaks I'd like to know advice of people who had to deal with this just to give me a few hints on where to look.


Post the file and log, I can take a look. What specifically are you changing when tuning this car around idle? To do certain things, correctly, specific things need to be adjusted in a certain order for the desired effect.



euroguy666 said:


> Unless I have the n75 plugged in the wrong plug, which I don't think I do, then I don't see why it would be doing that. It makes 15psi off the WG and then holds me at no boost after I change gears. But its only for a few seconds. Almost like a soft limp mode. There's no "VVT button" right? The only vvt file I see in the base files is for awp motors
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


I was not aware of you using a BEA file, as the AWP vvt files usually show a value in the Torque column.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Post the file and log, I can take a look. What specifically are you changing when tuning this car around idle? To do certain things, correctly, specific things need to be adjusted in a certain order for the desired effect.
> 
> 
> 
> I was not aware of you using a BEA file, as the AWP vvt files usually show a value in the Torque column.


Gotcha. Yeah its a TT with a wideband conversion. I have a 30 or so second log of my idle aswell. I think at one point I put the ac on to show a voltage change and back off again. My load and maf readings are quite high as I think we talked about a week or so ago. I wonder if that's the place to start with the base file. Maf scaling would throw a lot off I'd say

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## kid vw (Jul 1, 2008)

hey i have a quick question can I use a AWM ecu with maestro installed on my AMB car/motor?


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

getting closer with the new billet compressor wheel from www.pagparts.com along with the 750cc injectors and the .72 hot side.

dyates is the man :beer::beer:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

SGTphatboy said:


> getting closer with the new billet compressor wheel from www.pagparts.com along with the 750cc injectors and the .72 hot side.
> 
> dyates is the man :beer::beer:


:thumbup:


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## BradMk4 (Mar 1, 2014)

I am buying maestro 7 in a few weeks to finish up my k04-022 setup.. any advice as to if ev14 550cc's will work good with my setup?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

They work fine, but I'd suggest jumping straight to the gen2 1000s

Why buy twice, and enough for E85 if you ever wish


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> They work fine, but I'd suggest jumping straight to the gen2 1000s
> 
> Why buy twice, and enough for E85 if you ever wish


If he runs a bosch 044 pump he could just run 6 bar base pressure on those 550s and still have enough for e85. I do agree with your buy once philosophy though.


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## BradMk4 (Mar 1, 2014)

Dave926 said:


> They work fine, but I'd suggest jumping straight to the gen2 1000s
> 
> Why buy twice, and enough for E85 if you ever wish


I don't plan on going e85 and I already have a brand new set of the ev14s with adapters.. is there a base file for the 02x in Maestro 7?


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

BradMk4 said:


> I don't plan on going e85 and I already have a brand new set of the ev14s with adapters.. is there a base file for the 02x in Maestro 7?


Use the 550 file with the appropriate throttle body size and it will run fine


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> If he runs a bosch 044 pump he could just run 6 bar base pressure on those 550s and still have enough for e85. I do agree with your buy once philosophy though.


Dont take this the wrong way, but I dont understand the infatuation with running absurd base pressure around here. Buy the right size injector from the rip.

8bar of rail pressure, assuming 2bar of boost, is a ton of pressure (~115psi) and the 044 will not be happy.


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

I used to cheat my old DIGIfant System with a Rising Rate FPR. 
At the track I almost launch myself threw the windshield when the injectors shut off at 8 bar FPR.
to much pressure and the pintle will not open.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Lol^ you sir just made my day


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Dont take this the wrong way, but I dont understand the infatuation with running absurd base pressure around here. Buy the right size injector from the rip.
> 
> 8bar of rail pressure, assuming 2bar of boost, is a ton of pressure (~115psi) and the 044 will not be happy.


according to USRT, better atomization. the gen 2's are supposed to support up to 8 bar right?


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> Dont take this the wrong way, but I dont understand the infatuation with running absurd base pressure around here. Buy the right size injector from the rip.
> 
> 8bar of rail pressure, assuming 2bar of boost, is a ton of pressure (~115psi) and the 044 will not be happy.


044 can handle 100psi no problem


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

gitman said:


> according to USRT, better atomization. the gen 2's are supposed to support up to 8 bar right?


But realistically what do you gain? 5whp? An extra mpg? We all drive turbo cars here, give it an extra pound of boost.



formerly silveratljetta said:


> 044 can handle 100psi no problem


But I bet flow goes to **** at that point. I know they were designed for CIS cars in mind, but they also made a lot less power too.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> But realistically what do you gain? 5whp? An extra mpg? We all drive turbo cars here, give it an extra pound of boost.
> 
> 
> 
> But I bet flow goes to **** at that point. I know they were designed for CIS cars in mind, but they also made a lot less power too.


Look at the flow charts they are pretty steady up there just saying


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Anyone buy injectors from Pag Parts? I got the ev14 1000cc set from them with no flow sheet. Looked up typical flow of them off a PDF from Bosch and it reads 910cc is actual flow @3bar. Pag Parts told me mine were 1000cc @3bar. But it doesn't list anywhere in their description that these are modified like the ID1000's are to flow an actual 1000cc @3bar

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

euroguy666 said:


> Anyone buy injectors from Pag Parts? I got the ev14 1000cc set from them with no flow sheet. Looked up typical flow of them off a PDF from Bosch and it reads 910cc is actual flow @3bar. Pag Parts told me mine were 1000cc @3bar. But it doesn't list anywhere in their description that these are modified like the ID1000's are to flow an actual 1000cc @3bar
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


Injector dynamics don't flow more either they just test with a different fluid


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Injector dynamics don't flow more either they just test with a different fluid


So they just tell everyone that they are modified to flow more?

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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Injector dynamics don't flow more either they just test with a different fluid





euroguy666 said:


> So they just tell everyone that they are modified to flow more?
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


If this is the case then they have done a pretty awesome marketing campaign to fool everyone lol


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

euroguy666 said:


> Anyone buy injectors from Pag Parts? I got the ev14 1000cc set from them with no flow sheet. Looked up typical flow of them off a PDF from Bosch and it reads 910cc is actual flow @3bar. Pag Parts told me mine were 1000cc @3bar. But it doesn't list anywhere in their description that these are modified like the ID1000's are to flow an actual 1000cc @3bar
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


I would suggest using BVC's from gen2 injectors (maybe taking out 10%). Try using the 910cc and using the injector wizard then tuning the constant and the BVC's with fuel trim corrections.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> I would suggest using BVC's from gen2 injectors (maybe taking out 10%). Try using the 910cc and using the injector wizard then tuning the constant and the BVC's with fuel trim corrections.


Yeah I set the flow to 910 bringing my constant to .040515 (2008cc) just did my first long ass log to start tweaking stuff

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## NJ1.8T (Nov 4, 2005)

I have a Maestro Cable for sale, $125 for the connector and cable, just pay for a new license from Eurodyne of $499 and your ready to go. Email me at [email protected]


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## Ccrawford (Feb 19, 2014)

*Map opitions*

I have a question, I am new to the tuning suit and I did the stage two map with the 225 injectors and the car is having a idle issue. The MAF is saying that it is getting 3x the amount of air it is and making it run rich. Can I change it to the stage three and unplug the maf? I have stock turbo but have every other mod that you can pretty much do full build with cams and exhaust pistons blah blah, Please I am new to maestro I have the stock MAF in it now


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## zeusenergy (Feb 25, 2008)

*Please help!!*

I need to know the possible methods of transferring Maestro from one car to the other. I have the ECU to go with the USB tuner. Immo was never defeated on it. Can this FD code ECU go into another car besides the one it was in originally? I know I can offer the cluster and key pill along with the ECU but this is a new beetle so not many people want this setup for NB's. I have like five people wanting this ECU and tuner that own golfs or jettas! PLEASE HELP!!!:banghead:


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## zeusenergy (Feb 25, 2008)

NJ1.8T said:


> I have a Maestro Cable for sale, $125 for the connector and cable, just pay for a new license from Eurodyne of $499 and your ready to go. Email me at [email protected]


You can do that? Sell the cable separately? I have one too trying to sell it along with my ECU!


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

Ok Dyates has been working with me remotely and last night I got some time on a dynamaite hub dyno at www.vems.us

here's what ive got:
PPT 3071 .76a/r w/compressor wheel upgrade. Running Bosch High Impedence [BSCH-EV14-75] 750cc injectors. SEM MOTORSPORTS intake manifold, 75mm TB, aeb match port and polish, ss&nitride valves and springs, IE 144x20mm rods, bearings, PPT exhaust manifold, 38mm tial external wastegate, tial 50mm bov, kinetic motorsports 450hp core intercooler, PPT custom 3 inch downpipe with dumptube to APR 3inch cat back, APR upgraded in-tank fuel pump and walbro 255 inline fuel pump. Spec stage 3+ clutch. Custom set of cams from bobq (his purple set if anyone remembers his write up on vortex)

last pull of the night:


here are some logs from the night: earliest to last: sorry if I screwed up the order, let me know if anything gets out of sequence:beer:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIU01Hclg3dE9ueG8/edit
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgISkVvV3lDUC1SSEE/edit
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIV1FTeGdHWVVXMjA/edit
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgISlhuTjRBbVFoSTg/edit
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgId2plMGhfQnNWNEU/edit
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIdkhHdG12ZUdmYmc/edit
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIZVNJVGs2eVB0VGs/edit
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Y6ADp8QqgIbzFUaUZOaW9sNkU/edit


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

SGTphatboy said:


> Ok Dyates has been working with me remotely and last night I got some time on a dynamaite hub dyno at www.vems.us
> 
> here's what ive got:
> PPT 3071 .76a/r w/compressor wheel upgrade. Running 750cc injectors. SEM MOTORSPORTS intake manifold, 75mm TB, aeb match port and polish, ss&nitride valves and springs, IE 144x20mm rods, bearings, PPT exhaust manifold, 38mm tial external wastegate, tial 50mm bov, kinetic motorsports 450hp core intercooler, PPT custom 3 inch downpipe with dumptube to APR 3inch cat back, APR upgraded in-tank fuel pump and walbro 255 inline fuel pump. Spec stage 3+ clutch. Custom set of cams from bobq (his purple set if anyone remembers his write up on vortex)
> ...


saw you post this on fb, was expecting to see a little more with your extent of mods but being the type of dyno you used its probably more accurate. all that matters is that you're happy with it tho! so congrats so far. im sure theres still more to be had!

dyates has been tweaking my car as well. crazy how big a difference it makes when its properly tuned. trying to set an appt for dyno time next week, will post results!


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Speaking of dynos, if anyone is in nj or is cruising down/up for waterfest early, my buddys shop in toms river is having a pretty waterfest party/dyno day.its a mustang awd dyno. If anyone is looking for something to do the night before waterfest PM me. Name of the shop is Island Sport Works. They are a Uni/Eurodyne dealer. 

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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

Does anyone have the BVL table for Genesis2 1000cc's? I'm trying to get my fuel trims corrected for e85. 

Its currently at -1.7% and 5.5% respectively after using the Siemens 630 tables in the injector wizard. I know this is 
within the acceptable range but I'm having a sporadic idle after the car goes into closed loop. 

Do I raise the injector ms in the BVL tables to correct this? Thanks. :beer:


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

kueckerdj09 said:


> Does anyone have the BVL table for Genesis2 1000cc's? I'm trying to get my fuel trims corrected for e85.
> 
> Its currently at -1.7% and 5.5% respectively after using the Siemens 630 tables in the injector wizard. I know this is
> within the acceptable range but I'm having a sporadic idle after the car goes into closed loop.
> ...


Use the values for the injector dynamics id1000 injectors.


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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Use the values for the injector dynamics id1000 injectors.


Where is this located? I can't find anything for them on ID's website.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

any other input on my data, I know dyates has been looking but I am vdry interested in seeing what everyone else has to say:beer:


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

booster_ginster98 said:


> saw you post this on fb, was expecting to see a little more with your extent of mods but being the type of dyno you used its probably more accurate. all that matters is that you're happy with it tho! so congrats so far. im sure theres still more to be had!
> 
> dyates has been tweaking my car as well. crazy how big a difference it makes when its properly tuned. trying to set an appt for dyno time next week, will post results!


trying to get my WMI moved to the drivers side and a new stage 2 snow performance controller as my older version stage 2 controller doesn't have the switch to go from maf to map and I need to run map.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I cannot stress failsafes enough.

You add a bunch of extra boost and timing, that system fails and it will hurt an engine without the proper safeguards


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

Been having a little bit of a problem. With every start up my car is resetting its fuel trims. It will idle rough and correct itself. I contacted Eurodyne about the tune and if maybe I have to adjust something, and that its all the time and not just when I reflash. He told me its not tune related and maybe something with my aftermarket intake, also maybe my MAF. Do you think the MAF could have a role in this? Or maybe a crappy air filter that hasn't been cleaned, possibly something with my ECU?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Disconnect the maf and see what happens


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

And let it run with it disconnected ?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Yes


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Yes


be prepared for fire and dragons haha....... naw you will be fine with it unplugged. although Kurt Cobain may come play you a soft sad song.


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

I did it. Car ran normal with it disconnected..


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

grasman94 said:


> I did it. Car ran normal with it disconnected..


You sir, just learned how to diagnose a faulty MAF. You can drive it unplugged until you can get a new one on there no worries.


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

What I mean by running normal, is that it drives fine as it always does. Its hard to notice the rough idle when I'm not on a cold start. On a cold start, it sounds like the car is about to stall ( that's how rough it idles. ) and then goes to a normal idle as if it learned the trims and corrected itself. But sure enough when I turn the car on the next time on a cold start it does the same thing over and over. Guess im gonna have to disconnect it on the next cold start and see what happens .


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

Does flashing the car on a cold start affect anything such as learning fuel trims?


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

burkechrs1 said:


> You sir, just learned how to diagnose a faulty MAF. You can drive it unplugged until you can get a new one on there no worries.


Sorry for being so confusing its just really hard to explain.


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

grasman94 said:


> Does flashing the car on a cold start affect anything such as learning fuel trims?


Every time you flash your car it resets the fuel trims. It takes a few drive cycls or 30-45 minutes of driving for them to readjust.


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

grasman94 said:


> What I mean by running normal, is that it drives fine as it always does. Its hard to notice the rough idle when I'm not on a cold start. On a cold start, it sounds like the car is about to stall ( that's how rough it idles. ) and then goes to a normal idle as if it learned the trims and corrected itself. But sure enough when I turn the car on the next time on a cold start it does the same thing over and over. Guess im gonna have to disconnect it on the next cold start and see what happens .


Do you still have you SAI pump? Could be a leak on that, would effect your cold start idle.


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

burkechrs1 said:


> Every time you flash your car it resets the fuel trims. It takes a few drive cycls or 30-45 minutes of driving for them to readjust.


Yes I've heard and am aware of that. Its just that it does it every time I start the car. I've been through 30-45 minutes of driving and it keeps on doing it :/


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

burkechrs1 said:


> Do you still have you SAI pump? Could be a leak on that, would effect your cold start idle.


Nope no leak on that.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Interesting finding yesterday. So I had posted a while back on the difference between the vvt active and nonvvt file in terms of driveability. Basically I always had a rough cold start and hiccups/jerking around 1500-1900rpms. 

Since I don't really need the quicker spool for my F23 I had always disabled the vvt by setting all the cells to 0. Well, there must be something else that oversees VVT function aside from that one table. I unplugged the vvt and put a resistor into the harness instead. All the hiccups are now gone. 

Has anyone else had this experience?


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

spartiati said:


> Interesting finding yesterday. So I had posted a while back on the difference between the vvt active and nonvvt file in terms of driveability. Basically I always had a rough cold start and hiccups/jerking around 1500-1900rpms.
> 
> Since I don't really need the quicker spool for my F23 I had always disabled the vvt by setting all the cells to 0. Well, there must be something else that oversees VVT function aside from that one table. I unplugged the vvt and put a resistor into the harness instead. All the hiccups are now gone.
> 
> Has anyone else had this experience?


so when you zero'd out the cells, that had no effect at all, or just not the effect you wanted? that's real strange, especially considering its either inactive (0) or active (-22). why do you suppose it only happens between 1500-1900 and not up to 4000?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Exactly what he said

Something else besides that map is commanding the vvt to engage. I too experienced the jerkyness in the rpm range he mentioned.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Correct I zerod out the cells and it would oscillate between active and inactive at 1500-2000 rpms... Now everything is much much smoother...


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

If my can timing table looks like that one up there does that mean my tune is looking for a vvt unit? Should mine be all 0's since I don't have vvt?

Edit: double checked the amu 630cc file (non vvt car) there's no can timing map. And any maps dealing with timing look really different. I have an amu motor with a Bea ecu (vvt equipped car) and tune. Should I import some of the relevant timing maps from the amu file since I don't have vvt?

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I would have to look, but as a rule of thumb you do not touch the optimum timing maps


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> I would have to look, but as a rule of thumb you do not touch the optimum timing maps


Well not even that one, look at the cam timing map in the 1000cc Bea file and then if you go into the amu 630cc file, it doesn't even give you an option for that. Which with that plus what you guys were saying up there about making the vvt inactive by making all the values 0, I assumed my file's timing maps are set up for vvt. Maybe that's why I'm getting misfiring codes and down low it studders like nuts. Originally I thought it was bc I'm too rich and I'm putting out the spark and fouling plugs. But I pulled my plugs, replaced them and gapped them a but tighter (.026-.027)... Still missing bad down low

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## F4M0U5 (Jul 20, 2014)

I just ordered my maestro tuning for my aeb passat, was runnig pc16 but was too rich for my liking down low. And at 12.7 by 6300. So far mods are k04 15 borgwarner, fmic, apr tip, testpipe and rest of turbo back exhaust, a aem intake on a 6" velocity stack. Custom heat shield . 034 intake manifold spacer, forge 008, relocated dv, icm delete with r8 coil packs, light weight flywheel with rs4 clutch from ecs tuning. And im prob forgeting some...

But n e ways I ordered ev14 440cc injectors because I heard good reveiws on theese wh turbod cars. Now my question is would i be better off starting with the k03 base tune and calculate for the 440 injectors. Or start with the 440 base file and just tune down boost and what ever else needs tweaking?

Thanks for help!


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Exactly what he said


understood, but i was wondering if there were any specific theories


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

When pulling the N80 to run an uncorrected log, your block 32 ltft and stft won't apply corrections correct? You'll still get o2 correction values in the maestro log. Correct?

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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

quick question

Just finished my build and got the car up and running somewhat still running of wastegate spring at 7psi 
630cc, 2l stroker and gtx2867r

I figured out how to do the logs, how to apply them and so on.

what boost should I start to do with the logs?

what should i start applying the logs to? fuel? timing?

thanks


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Start at WG pressure, go up in 3lb increments.

Post a log for review as well


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## F4M0U5 (Jul 20, 2014)

F4M0U5 said:


> I just ordered my maestro tuning for my aeb passat, was runnig pc16 but was too rich for my liking down low. And at 12.7 by 6300. So far mods are k04 15 borgwarner, fmic, apr tip, testpipe and rest of turbo back exhaust, a aem intake on a 6" velocity stack. Custom heat shield . 034 intake manifold spacer, forge 008, relocated dv, icm delete with r8 coil packs, light weight flywheel with rs4 clutch from ecs tuning. And im prob forgeting some...
> 
> But n e ways I ordered ev14 440cc injectors because I heard good reveiws on theese wh turbod cars. Now my question is would i be better off starting with the k03 base tune and calculate for the 440 injectors. Or start with the 440 base file and just tune down boost and what ever else needs tweaking?
> 
> Thanks for help!


Any help here? Im geting evrything in mail today


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Start with a 440 base file

However to tune open loop boost properly, your going to need an external device that logs boost and rpm, and then you will have to convert it to load manually


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

Maxpowerz said:


> quick question
> 
> Just finished my build and got the car up and running somewhat still running of wastegate spring at 7psi
> 630cc, 2l stroker and gtx2867r
> ...


here are some logs
any thoughts??

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBCpdC6Gx1X2ZfRHU3bnB1QWM/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBCpdC6Gx1TzBNOGh0NGMwTXc/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBCpdC6Gx1X2ZfRHU3bnB1QWM/edit?usp=sharing

thanks guys


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Timing first

But this isnt the first forged piston car ive seen with timing issues


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## one_fast_vw (Feb 10, 2011)

Hey guys I'm new to maestro 7 here are the specs for my car

-1.8t
-02m 20th 6 speed trans
-Clutch Masters FX400 W/ Billet Aluminum flywheel
-Driveshaft shop Stage 2.9 Driver side axle/Stock Passenger side
-Built bottom end (IE Rods Stock pistons)
-AEB Head (supertech valvetrain/Ferra exhaust valves/stock intake valves/5 angle valve job/ ported and polished intake side/ All guides were replaced when rebuilt/Autotech intake cam
-OBX Intake manifold and fuel Rail
-70mm Throttle body
-870cc injectors
-Bosch 044 inline pump
-Aeromotive FPR
-SS braided fuel line from rail to tank return and feed lines
-VF Engine and Tranny Mount with FFE Derlin inserts
-CTS Turbo KIT
-Precision 5857
-3" Custom SS Exhaust
-Eurojet Catch Can
-Eurojet FMIC and piping

any input on tuning for e85 I have done a little research. But would love some help on learning how to tune. I'm willing to pay to learn.


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Timing first
> 
> But this isnt the first forged piston car ive seen with timing issues


I have a similar issue: 6-10 degrees retards in the 1200-2000 rpm range, driving in traffic.
What would be the way to eliminate these CFs?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

rogerius said:


> I have a similar issue: 6-10 degrees retards in the 1200-2000 rpm range, driving in traffic.
> What would be the way to eliminate these CFs?



My first suggestion is to make sure your not on the race map timing via Quicktune.

My second suggestion is run the tank down really low, put 5 gallons of C16 in the tank. If it still pulls timing then you have an issue relating to the knock sensors. 

At that point I would ask Tapp if there is any way to lower knock sensitivity. Not the best thing in my opinion for sure, but realistically the only practical solution.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> My first suggestion is to make sure your not on the race map timing via Quicktune.
> 
> My second suggestion is run the tank down really low, put 5 gallons of C16 in the tank. If it still pulls timing then you have an issue relating to the knock sensors.
> 
> At that point I would ask Tapp if there is any way to lower knock sensitivity. Not the best thing in my opinion for sure, but realistically the only practical solution.


Is it possible for the knock sensor to go bad?


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## F4M0U5 (Jul 20, 2014)

Dave926 said:


> Start with a 440 base file
> 
> However to tune open loop boost properly, your going to need an external device that logs boost and rpm, and then you will have to convert it to load manually


Fml really? I thought people do it without buying a data logfer... I have a aem wideband and new south boost gauge.

just took it for a spin after loading 440 base file. Car seems strong. My a/f are decent. And my boost is a little hight. I also pulled up to 5 degrees timing at 4200. Il run the log and adjust the cells with positive numbers in the histogram? Just by a little go down to a smaller numbers?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Is it possible for the knock sensor to go bad?


Of course. But realistically they dont **** too often. If the engine has been rebuilt theres a better chance of the knock sensor torque being incorrect than an all out failure.



F4M0U5 said:


> Fml really? I thought people do it without buying a data logfer... I have a aem wideband and new south boost gauge.
> 
> just took it for a spin after loading 440 base file. Car seems strong. My a/f are decent. And my boost is a little hight. I also pulled up to 5 degrees timing at 4200. Il run the log and adjust the cells with positive numbers in the histogram? Just by a little go down to a smaller numbers?


Of course you can do it without the instrumentation I suggested.

The other way would be to have the wideband's spare output to feed into the secondary 02 sensor and log it that way, through the correct measuring block.

The wideband output would have to be programmed to 0v=min lambda and 1v=max lambda.

This of course is theory, but I know thats how other brands typically do it, or through EGR wiring.


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Timing first
> 
> But this isnt the first forged piston car ive seen with timing issues


Ill pull the timing back via the logs and ill re post with results. mine is on the road timing map not on the race one.


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

looking over the whole thread i think i might be using the wrong maf sensor... im using the tt225 sensor i think ending in 461ex but the maestro is written for 461m. 
anyway whats the best 3" maf to use?? or any one have the part numbers handy? some one earlier mentioned some vast kit but vast is out of business.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The Audi TT225 and Mk4 VR6 MAF housings are interchangeable. But the sensor itself is key. If you have one from an AWP MAF assembly, use that in the larger housing, whichever you have.


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> The Audi TT225 and Mk4 VR6 MAF housings are interchangeable. But the sensor itself is key. If you have one from an AWP MAF assembly, use that in the larger housing, whichever you have.


What these forums say it seems the maestro software is set for sensor+housing so they match. I know I can rescale the maf housing but I havent gotten that far, id like to just get a 3inch sensor that matches one of the options in the software . Iv emailed eurodyne to see what they say.


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## F4M0U5 (Jul 20, 2014)

Ok so I flashed the 440 file to my aeb. I ran a few logs for aeb and then ran the histogram and foxed where I was pulling timming. Did this 3 times till now its alot better. Now After I run the histogram it shows all 0s . (I only adjusted the ones that where out and had positive numbers left behind) and since they aere coming back with 0s I belive im on the right track. But if I look at the new log after new file im still pulling 2-3 degrees on 2 cylenders . Mostly on. Cyl 2 and 3 but some times 1 and 4 also. I also have seen 5 degrees of pull on only a single cylinder while two are at 0 and one at 2. 
Does it indicate somthing if not all 4 are pulling at the same time? And btw im maximg out my maf from 5000rpm up
Idk if this plays an effect

Also if I run the car for awhile then park for an half hour to an hour and start it back up the car would idle weird and my wide band reads over the top lean. And then it slowly made its way down to 14.7 after a full 60 seconds or more. I belive I did see at this time the short term fuel trim was holding 29.7 i belive till when it got down to 14.7 then it was around 3(but moving like it should). I also checked my long term fuel trim after a full day of driving. And thats around a positvie 16.(pc16 and stock both where around 3.7 so its gota be in the tune)

And my a/f ratio under load is awsome. Alot better then my pc16 never see over 12.4 (only hits this mid rpm range)usually goes between 11 and 12 11 around redline. My pc16 was burried into the 9s down low. And then 12.5 at redline.


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> My first suggestion is to make sure your not on the race map timing via Quicktune.
> 
> My second suggestion is run the tank down really low, put 5 gallons of C16 in the tank. If it still pulls timing then you have an issue relating to the knock sensors.
> 
> At that point I would ask Tapp if there is any way to lower knock sensitivity. Not the best thing in my opinion for sure, but realistically the only practical solution.


I have 100 Octane Shell V-Power racing gas in the tank, at all times. I also drive on LPG, which is more than 110 Octane.
The engine has been overhauled, that's a fact.
Pistons are forged CPs.
I will re-check the torque on the knock sensors, though.
In Quicktune, the pump fuel map is selected.

I tried to trace hystogram over the timing map but i have a hard time logging with Maestro in the first place:banghead:. When I step on the gas, it loses communication.
I think I am at a dead end here.:banghead:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

100oct vpower, is that R+M/2?

But on propane you should not be getting any timing pull. That being said, my knowledge of LPG is very limited.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

rogerius said:


> I have 100 Octane Shell V-Power racing gas in the tank, at all times. I also drive on LPG, which is more than 110 Octane.
> The engine has been overhauled, that's a fact.
> Pistons are forged CPs.
> I will re-check the torque on the knock sensors, though.
> ...


Try a medium comm speed. I have a TT and Tapp told me they only flash and log in slower speeds. Might be your issue as well. TT or not

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## F4M0U5 (Jul 20, 2014)

here u can see the warm start issue.


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

I redid the file from scratch again(used the sem 70mm vvt file), pulled the timing back a little, unplugged the MAF and no more knock. when i get off work ill bump the timing back to where it was before and give it a go

on a side note i used to get P1297 connection charger-throttle valve pressure drop after the second cold start from ecu reset( i think this leads me to think the maf was the wrong one)

butt dyno noticed a significant difference with these short bad logs

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBCpdC6Gx1alNhZnlTenkwUVU/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBCpdC6Gx1Tm1xQWdKdzFUWE0/edit?usp=sharing

any one know what is the best maf part# to get or use as per tune options?? i think there is only the v8 part number in the tune


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Looks pretty safe

Get a full pull to redline, and I will make up some graphs to illustrate the data so it does not look like a bunch of random numbers


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## David_Tedder (Oct 24, 2005)

gitman said:


> so when you zero'd out the cells, that had no effect at all, or just not the effect you wanted? that's real strange, especially considering its either inactive (0) or active (-22). why do you suppose it only happens between 1500-1900 and not up to 4000?



I had the exact same symptoms up to about 2500 and both cam timing maps were 0's, when i unplugged my vvt the car came alive, no more sputtering or jerkiness , cold start is also much better


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Looks pretty safe
> 
> Get a full pull to redline, and I will make up some graphs to illustrate the data so it does not look like a bunch of random numbers


its been abnormally hot here around 80f(28C) in the sun so once i drove it in the pm i got a little bit of knock with the same file as this am, should i pull back more timing? 
also i raised boost a little just to make sure that the mbc was working properly 8-9psi now. thanks:beer:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBCpdC6Gx1Q0hORExrWDBVbmM/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBCpdC6Gx1YnlSbDRiNDZmSzQ/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## F4M0U5 (Jul 20, 2014)

I tired ading fuel at all cells for 800 and 1000 in main fuel correction( started with adding .01. Then .1 then .2 ) this fixed the lean idle. And stft was +/- 3. Then drove and went under boost and was lean there ( cause I only added to idle) so I added the same amount of fuel in the rest of fuel map. Took for a ride and evrything seemed good a/f and no knock. Till I heard a screaching. Looked down and it was boosting 30 psi! I checked with a log and my boost duty cycle was going to 100%.. before wasnt going over 90% 25 psi


How would changing my main fuel effect my boost? 


Next I guess ill try to just subtract 20. Throughout the boost duty cycle map? Or what? What am I doing wrong



F4M0U5 said:


> Ok so I flashed the 440 file to my aeb. I ran a few logs for aeb and then ran the histogram and foxed where I was pulling timming. Did this 3 times till now its alot better. Now After I run the histogram it shows all 0s . (I only adjusted the ones that where out and had positive numbers left behind) and since they aere coming back with 0s I belive im on the right track. But if I look at the new log after new file im still pulling 2-3 degrees on 2 cylenders . Mostly on. Cyl 2 and 3 but some times 1 and 4 also. I also have seen 5 degrees of pull on only a single cylinder while two are at 0 and one at 2.
> Does it indicate somthing if not all 4 are pulling at the same time? And btw im maximg out my maf from 5000rpm up
> Idk if this plays an effect
> 
> ...


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Maxpowerz said:


> its been abnormally hot here around 80f(28C) in the sun so once i drove it in the pm i got a little bit of knock with the same file as this am, should i pull back more timing?
> also i raised boost a little just to make sure that the mbc was working properly 8-9psi now. thanks:beer:
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBCpdC6Gx1Q0hORExrWDBVbmM/edit?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBCpdC6Gx1YnlSbDRiNDZmSzQ/edit?usp=sharing


A little timing pull is fine, as its not actually knock until its above -12. Everyone has their preference, but I feel -3 is ideal.

Add a 4 to 5 lbs and do 3 back to back pulls, then report back.


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## F4M0U5 (Jul 20, 2014)

I droped the boost duty cycle 20. In evry cell on the boost duty map. Now 1-3 im only hiting 20 psi. And 4th/5th im hitting 25 still.... idk what im doing wrong. From what I see rhw boost duty map is only based off tps and rpm. Not load.


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

Ok finally I got my car running and I was able to run a few logs. Any help would be greatly appreciated!! :beer:


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_qu2sa1pyEJVWY1Y0ZZeHZxVmM/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_qu2sa1pyEJQVZHbFp0eXpfZzg/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_qu2sa1pyEJM2RXQjR4TlRGSTA/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_qu2sa1pyEJcE9aT2ZVNmo4X1k/edit?usp=sharing


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> A little timing pull is fine, as its not actually knock until its above -12. Everyone has their preference, but I feel -3 is ideal.
> 
> Add a 4 to 5 lbs and do 3 back to back pulls, then report back.


thanks did that here are some logs

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBCpdC6Gx1YmxqaVo1ZmRlV28/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBCpdC6Gx1eGRFbUZUM2xTOVk/edit?usp=sharing

Im thinking i should pull the timing back -1 and see what happens as at higher boost ill get further away from the -3 thanks


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

2-3 would be ideal.

Use the graphing utility in my signature so that you can overlay the data and see trends as to where you need to make changes.


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## kueckerdj09 (Jun 1, 2011)

Can anyone help me with the battery voltage calculation forumla. I'm still getting a slight rev hang on decel, but idle and 1/2 throttle feels good. 

Block 32 is at 4.1 and -3.1. 

I know how to calculate the new injector constant, but I just need to see if I can further improve this rev hang with the BVLs. Thanks.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

kueckerdj09 said:


> Can anyone help me with the battery voltage calculation forumla. I'm still getting a slight rev hang on decel, but idle and 1/2 throttle feels good.
> 
> Block 32 is at 4.1 and -3.1.
> 
> I know how to calculate the new injector constant, but I just need to see if I can further improve this rev hang with the BVLs. Thanks.


This will help...


Once you get your idle fueling right, its time to go out and start logging. First things first though. Go out for a long drive, 20 mins or so, and return to base. BEFORE SHUTTING THE CAR OFF, LOOK AT BLOCK 32 AND NOTE THE FIRST AND SECOND COLUMN VALUES AND WRITE THEM DOWN! Why? Because we are going to use these values to properly adjust your BVC and IC.
The first value is your short term fuel trim (STFT). From what I understand, this is the amount, in percent, that the ecu is scaling your BVC values by. So if you go for a drive and its reading -5.00%, this means that the ecu is subtracting 5% from ALL the BVC values you have entered. To adjust this, simply open your BVC map, and subtract 5% from all the values that are in MS using right click -> math functions. if the value in the column is positive, add this in percentage to all the values.

The second value is your long term fuel trim. This is a bit more complex, but still simple if you can handle basic math. This is the percentage amount that is being added or subtracted from your IC.*

If my IC is .037518, and my LTFT is +3.13%, you must find what 3.13% of .037518 is.*

3.13% is written as .0313

Knowing this, .0313 x .037518 = .001174. Therefore, .001174 must be added to .037518 to get the correct IC of .038612. This will be your new IC and you will never need to touch it again.

Again, if your LTFT is -3.13%, you will perfrom the same math:

.0313 x .037518 = .001174

Only now you must SUBTRACT from .037518, which will return the correct IC of .036344.
You can repeat this process as much as you like, 3 or 4 times should be more than enough. Once you do this and you notice STFT and LTFT stay close to 0% after a 20 min drive, you are done.


Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> 2-3 would be ideal.
> 
> Use the graphing utility in my signature so that you can overlay the data and see trends as to where you need to make changes.


Im having some issues with the ecuplot program, when i open the csv file it just hangs there, tried diff pc both windows xp and 7, am i supposed to delete some data from the files before the software can open it?

I pulled the timing back 1* as per last logs and played with the boost knob again 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBCpdC6Gx1RzN3NkJ5R2c0Z2c/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBCpdC6Gx1ZlB3VEM3NkV4ZFE/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBCpdC6Gx1QUFmN2hOUDI3S2s/edit?usp=sharing


i forgot to mention that when drive in gear above say 5500-6000 rpm very often i can hear the engine rev up without throttle when i shift gears

thanks:beer:


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Maybe somebody can help point me in the right direction. I'm in the process of tuning mafless to get my idle fueling right. Block 032 first bank is 1.7 second bank is 11. I think all I need to adjust now is my IC.

Once I'm all done with that I'm really trying to get my maf to work. It wont. It's an s4 maf. I'm using the 630 cc non vvt s4 maf base file but changed it for my fueling. When I start it with maf plugged in it idles very rough. 

Once I start trying to tackle this, what should I log and look for? What maps should I adjust. I couldn't find much in the 20+ pages I read back. Any input is appreciated I'd really like to get this maf to work.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

burkechrs1 said:


> Maybe somebody can help point me in the right direction. I'm in the process of tuning mafless to get my idle fueling right. Block 032 first bank is 1.7 second bank is 11. I think all I need to adjust now is my IC.
> 
> Once I'm all done with that I'm really trying to get my maf to work. It wont. It's an s4 maf. I'm using the 630 cc non vvt s4 maf base file but changed it for my fueling. When I start it with maf plugged in it idles very rough.
> 
> Once I start trying to tackle this, what should I log and look for? What maps should I adjust. I couldn't find much in the 20+ pages I read back. Any input is appreciated I'd really like to get this maf to work.


What's the rest of your hardware?


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> What's the rest of your hardware?


CTS manifold
GT3071r .63ar 4" inlet V1 pagparts wheel
stock displacement
scat rods cp pistons stock compression
fluidampr
bosch 044
725cc injectors from pagparts
OEM s4 maf new
transmission goodies

Engine Bay

I used a 630cc, S4 maf, no-vvt, basefile in maestro, but adjusted it for my injectors instead of 630s. I'm dialing in BVC and IC currently, have -1.3 | 6.3, going out to drive for a bit and log 032 again so I can make one more change. I plugged in the MAF when I last checked and it idles but not smooth. A/F bounces from rich to lean and back, stumbling in between. It's gotten better the closer I've gotten my block 032 numbers, so I figured I'd get them +-3% before I started working on my MAF. I just don't know where to start or look when I get there.


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## F4M0U5 (Jul 20, 2014)

Ok im slowly getting there. Quick qestions.

Since I started to get the tunes a/f good I now get 1 pop in between shifts when im off throttle. Is that fine? 

Also im trying to target 12.a/f up to 4700 and make my way to 11. At 6500.

My pc 16 ran 10.0 to 5000 and by 6300 was at 12.5!

What a/f are you guys running for peak power?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

burkechrs1 said:


> CTS manifold
> GT3071r .63ar 4" inlet V1 pagparts wheel
> stock displacement
> scat rods cp pistons stock compression
> ...


Stock intake manifold and throttle body?

F4mous, I wouldnt suggest going much leaner than 12.5, as the power gain is pretty minimal between that an 11.5


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> Stock intake manifold and throttle body?
> 
> F4mous, I wouldnt suggest going much leaner than 12.5, as the power gain is pretty minimal between that an 11.5


Yes stock intake manifold and tb.


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## F4M0U5 (Jul 20, 2014)

Ok cool so u was good trying to get around 12up to 5500 and 11 from 5500 up?

And any one else geting a single pop between shifts? I hope im not breaking somthing. Sounds like a small back fire. Not that loud tho.


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

burkechrs1 said:


> Yes stock intake manifold and tb.



So I got my block 032 values under +-5% and called it good. I plugged in the MAF and it still runs like crap. It's a brand new MAF so it can't be bad. It's an S4 MAF, with the 3" ID / 3.25" OD housing. Using the 630cc S4 maf file. So it should just be plug and play right? I logged block 003 (the one with airflow) and it's reading 6.6 g/s at idle. That seems incorrect. Idle bounces from rich to lean and back. Idle is smooth as butter right at 14.5-14.9 with the maf unplugged.

Pressure tested the system to 20 psi, no vac leaks, no boost leaks. Put the entire thing back together this weekend with cometic gaskets at all flanges and seafoamed after first start up, no leaks anywhere whatsoever.

If I knew what blocks to log or what I should even be looking for in my logs to calibrate this MAF I can probably figure it out, but I don't. I always figured it was "select MAF from basefile/dropdown menu, load tune, forget about MAF and profit" guess that's not right lol.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

burkechrs1 said:


> So I got my block 032 values under +-5% and called it good. I plugged in the MAF and it still runs like crap. It's a brand new MAF so it can't be bad. It's an S4 MAF, with the 3" ID / 3.25" OD housing. Using the 630cc S4 maf file. So it should just be plug and play right? I logged block 003 (the one with airflow) and it's reading 6.6 g/s at idle. That seems incorrect. Idle bounces from rich to lean and back. Idle is smooth as butter right at 14.5-14.9 with the maf unplugged.
> 
> Pressure tested the system to 20 psi, no vac leaks, no boost leaks. Put the entire thing back together this weekend with cometic gaskets at all flanges and seafoamed after first start up, no leaks anywhere whatsoever.
> 
> If I knew what blocks to log or what I should even be looking for in my logs to calibrate this MAF I can probably figure it out, but I don't. I always figured it was "select MAF from basefile/dropdown menu, load tune, forget about MAF and profit" guess that's not right lol.


6gs does seem a little high for idle.

Note injector on time when Mafless, and when the maf is plugged in, and maybe adjust maf scaling accordingly?


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> 6gs does seem a little high for idle.
> 
> Note injector on time when Mafless, and when the maf is plugged in, and maybe adjust maf scaling accordingly?


I forgot to mention I'm at 4800' elevation. I'm not sure what I should tweak. It says all bosch maf get a 200 offset so I don't think I should have to touch that. I can raise or lower the voltage graph 5% or so and see what happens. I would prefer to make educated tweaks though instead of just guessing. but if nobody has any ideas I guess I can start there and see?


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## F4M0U5 (Jul 20, 2014)

Ok im getting closer with tuning. Its pulling hard and smooth. And 22 psi so far (accidently had a few 30psi points after just raising my main fuel correction.) 
First off this is all new since maestro. It was a stock ecu and running fine with no codes. 


But any ways after reflash I check my codes and theres the one for p1602 evry time (for unplugging battery even tho I dont unplug battery)
I erase it evry time and instantly get a 65535 that wont earase. 

After 2 drives evry time I get a p0601 and lit cel. (And I cant see the 65535 till I earase it) 


I read that the code can be from a faulty flash.. ive tried doing it multiple times and it still comes back
any one have this issue or can help? Thanks


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

burkechrs1 said:


> I forgot to mention I'm at 4800' elevation. I'm not sure what I should tweak. It says all bosch maf get a 200 offset so I don't think I should have to touch that. I can raise or lower the voltage graph 5% or so and see what happens. I would prefer to make educated tweaks though instead of just guessing. but if nobody has any ideas I guess I can start there and see?


I'm having some issues with rev hang. I read that the 630cc base file could have some issues so I flashed the 725cc vvt base map with my updated fuel numbers and it still hangs. Usually happens low speed, generally when I go into neutral from 1st or 2nd. It will hang around 2k foe as much as 15 seconds. If I blurp the throttle while it's hanging it recovers fine.

What causes this? Everything I read points to leaks but I pressure tested and sea foamed again yesterday due to these issues. Nothing. My buddy who tunes Hondas says rev hang is common when tuning Hondas and it's almost never mechanical it's always tune based but I don't know where in maestro to tune it to not hang. 

Ideas?


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

there is an old thread on rev hang that recently got some activity, http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5252985-Rev-hang-what-actually-causes-it

hopefully you find it helpful


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

gitman said:


> there is an old thread on rev hang that recently got some activity, http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5252985-Rev-hang-what-actually-causes-it
> 
> hopefully you find it helpful


Thanks,

Can someone give me some advice please.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4K4a6d_RyXjZVhjTWF4bTlZOGc/edit?usp=sharing

Here is my tune I am currently running.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4K4a6d_RyXjQV9NemhuSzlyVWM/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4K4a6d_RyXjdW95cDhDYlAtWTA/edit?usp=sharing

Here are 2 logs of me crusiing through town. My afr gauge kept showing lean quite a bit so I never got on it. I noticed my o2 corrections are huge. I checked block 032 and both cells are less than 3. What should my changes be? I assume I will now want to start tuning injector correction?

Also, you can see my idle a lot on those 2 logs. I still can't get my S4 MAF to work right. Here is a quick log of idle with the S4 maf plugged in. Took the log when I got home after recording the previous 2. Any ideas comparing the mafless idle with idle with a maf? I'd really like that to work, just have no idea what to touch.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4K4a6d_RyXjek16NkY5c1ByaFk/edit?usp=sharing

In the meantime until I can get the MAF working, I'm trying to get it solid mafless. Any input is appreciated. Thanks.


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## David_Tedder (Oct 24, 2005)

Anyone running big cams on a mafless setup like the CVA1 have any stalling issues when coming to a stop or letting the rpm just drop I've checked for leaks and none across the board and no codes.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Anyone using an N75 valve? Any advice on boost duty or boost PID? Maybe just a laymen's version of what the difference between the two maps are?

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

No exhaust leaks either tedder?

These cams will work without stalling? Its just a bitch lol. Whats your idle speed?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Tedder, try raising the idle first and then also upping the idle torque from 1000 - 1500rpms. If you go too high here, you may get some rev hangs but between these two maps you will solve the stalling.


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

euroguy666 said:


> Anyone using an N75 valve? Any advice on boost duty or boost PID? Maybe just a laymen's version of what the difference between the two maps are?
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


this was discussed a few pages back. IIRC there is at least one map that needs to be made available in order to do N75 properly. I'm not sure which, specifically.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

gitman said:


> this was discussed a few pages back. IIRC there is at least one map that needs to be made available in order to do N75 properly. I'm not sure which, specifically.


Alright I'll scroll back a bit... I wanna say its the boost duty map. The boost PID map might be corrections for after boost duty map let's up

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

euroguy666 said:


> Alright I'll scroll back a bit... I wanna say its the boost duty map. The boost PID map might be corrections for after boost duty map let's up
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


i want to retract what i said. i think that was a slightly different scenario.

here's a good link on setting up Boost Duty - http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/561431-How-to-Maestro-Boost-Duty-Map


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

gitman said:


> i want to retract what i said. i think that was a slightly different scenario.
> 
> here's a good link on setting up Boost Duty - http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/561431-How-to-Maestro-Boost-Duty-Map


Thanks man. I'll read up on it and see what I get out of it. I'll report back

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

My jetta will be going to the scrap yard but would like to offer my ecu up. Aww motor 630 maestro. Pm me


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

I'm a little confused with setting up the fuel. I'm running 1000cc injectors with a 4bar, which is 58 PSI. On the wizard I set it up all with the proper specs and I also set the bvc with the specs of 58PSI that I got from FIC. Now I drove my car around and my car is running very lean. I checked Block 32 and made the corrections, but I look at the corrections on the bvc and compared it to the specs that FIC provided me and I'm running like 75PSI. I think this is way to high! So I'm starting over. 

I think my issue too is that I have a 75mm tb and the tune is meant for a 80mm and I'm running MAFless. If anyone using a 75mm and would share please let me know. 


I'm thinking in driving the car and look at the Alpha N and the Throttle Angel vs Airflow instead? I'll use the trace parameter. What do you guys think?



***** I also wanted to say thanks to Dave for helping me get started on this!! *****


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

un1ko said:


> I'm a little confused with setting up the fuel. I'm running 1000cc injectors with a 4bar, which is 58 PSI. On the wizard I set it up all with the proper specs and I also set the bvc with the specs of 58PSI that I got from FIC. Now I drove my car around and my car is running very lean. I checked Block 32 and made the corrections, but I look at the corrections on the bvc and compared it to the specs that FIC provided me and I'm running like 75PSI. I think this is way to high! So I'm starting over.
> 
> I think my issue too is that I have a 75mm tb and the tune is meant for a 80mm and I'm running MAFless. If anyone using a 75mm and would share please let me know.
> 
> ...


When you start out with that much hardware all at once, I just put the values in and then start adjusting Alpha N based on 02 corrections. Just keep in mind that at idle speeds small changes have a huge effect on mixture.


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> When you start out with that much hardware all at once, I just put the values in and then start adjusting Alpha N based on 02 corrections. Just keep in mind that at idle speeds small changes have a huge effect on mixture.


Yesterday I didn't get a chance to do anything. Based on what you're saying you agree that I should look more at adjusting Alpha N versus my fuel? Today I'll drive my car around and run some logs and see what happens.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

un1ko said:


> Yesterday I didn't get a chance to do anything. Based on what you're saying you agree that I should look more at adjusting Alpha N versus my fuel? Today I'll drive my car around and run some logs and see what happens.


Correct.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Correct.


You get my email with my file and log?

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I did.

Just a few things going on at once


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> I did.
> 
> Just a few things going on at once


No prob. I suck at google drive so just making sure. And this was supposed to be a pm. **** in tapatalk

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## jetta021.8t (Feb 13, 2009)

Having a problem starting my car when it is hot .. Unless you start back up with in say 5mins it cranks for about 10-15sec or so . Cold starts in the morning r no problem ..check a bunch of thing and have it at the shop where a get it tuned but wanted to know is there something that can be adjust for just hot starts ? Thanks for any help ..


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Hardware list?


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## jetta021.8t (Feb 13, 2009)

1.8t built head , homemade intake manifold ,75mm throttle body , ev14 72lb injectors HTA30r with maf less file


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

jetta021.8t said:


> Having a problem starting my car when it is hot .. Unless you start back up with in say 5mins it cranks for about 10-15sec or so . Cold starts in the morning r no problem ..check a bunch of thing and have it at the shop where a get it tuned but wanted to know is there something that can be adjust for just hot starts ? Thanks for any help ..


Sounds like a crank position sensor starting to crap the bed.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## jetta021.8t (Feb 13, 2009)

Yea I was thinking the same so I will order one and try that


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## GetBoosted84 (Apr 1, 2007)

jetta021.8t said:


> Having a problem starting my car when it is hot .. Unless you start back up with in say 5mins it cranks for about 10-15sec or so . Cold starts in the morning r no problem ..check a bunch of thing and have it at the shop where a get it tuned but wanted to know is there something that can be adjust for just hot starts ? Thanks for any help ..


Had the same exact problem at the last track day I went to. Ended up having to replace the crankshaft position sensor on the side of the road & luckily someone at the track was nice enough to give me a lift to the auto parts store. Installed the new sensor and good to go. Fired right up.


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## jetta021.8t (Feb 13, 2009)

Well sad to say $150 later and the new sensor didn't fix it ..


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## iiii (Jun 8, 2014)

...


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

jetta021.8t said:


> Well sad to say $150 later and the new sensor didn't fix it ..


Then there is something wrong with your tune


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## iiii (Jun 8, 2014)

I flashed the base aeb 630cc file a few days ago and no matter what I do this is all it will do. I did a throttle body adaption as I read that could be a contributing factor. Any ideas? I really need it to be running. It won't go over 3k and it is hard to get it to even go that high. It bogs and dies.


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

elRey said:


> Simplified:
> 
> Stock ECU assumes stock turbo and wastegate spring rate (~5-7 psi). Since 0% n75 will still produce 7psi the ecu can only regulate <7psi via TB. any >7psi it can regulate via n75. When you add a mbc, you affectively increase the wastage spring rate to whatever you set the mbc at. The ecu cannot regulate boost with n75. The maps I mentioned earlier are for the transition from TB to N75 regulation of boost. With those maps you can set up to what psi the ecu should still use TB to regulate boost.
> 
> The situation you and Rac are discribing is where ecu requests more than 7psi. And it thinks it can only regulate it with TB = 100% and N75 = x%. ( log TB ). What you want is to tell ecu it has to regulation boost via TB up to what you have your mbc set at. Those maps do that. And the way you adjust the maps is you shift the pressure axis to where the transtion lines up with your mbc setting.


just thought i would add that i found a graph that groggory had made while he was troubleshooting his O2 sensor issues that illustrates the behavior elRey explains above quite nicely.



groggory said:


> Look at this weird graph for block 062 and block 031
> 
> Red = Throttle body angle
> Yellow = Accelerator pedal angle
> ...


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## Leonturbo (Nov 26, 2012)

update now the eurodyne flash to 5.5.8 version and i got screen " lock system Please donwload latest version.." :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

who have it too?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Leonturbo said:


> update now the eurodyne flash to 5.5.8 version and i got screen " lock system Please donwload latest version.." :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
> 
> who have it too?


Go directly to the website and download the latest version and install. Happens to me from time to time.


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## Leonturbo (Nov 26, 2012)

i did it. the new version is 5.5.8
i donwload it now from the website and still have this error :banghead:
i am not drunk


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I just tried it and I get the same thing ... Weird. Probably something on his end he'll need to fix.


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## Aviaa25 (Jan 18, 2014)

i allso have same problem

but i got it worse!

in middle of flashing my ecu , software kick me out and say that need to update it
im on 5.5.8 version im confused :banghead: 

try to download it like 10 times but no luck..

btw my ecu can be reflash now?
damnn!


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

try disconnecting from the Internet before starting the program

I didn't think that it checked the current version at any other time than initial startup


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## Aviaa25 (Jan 18, 2014)

I wasn't on internet..

Btw finally tapp update his software to 5.5.9


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Download the latest from the website. It works....


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

gitman said:


> try disconnecting from the Internet before starting the program
> 
> I didn't think that it checked the current version at any other time than initial startup


It was an issue with the flasher itself


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

Finally we were able to log the car with Eurodyne logger. The new cable received, requests the drivers to be installed each time we want to log, but I don't mind since we had never been able to run the logger in the past no matter what combination of comm speed and key switching on/off we chose.
Maybe finally we will iron out the timing and fuelling peaks in the maps.

Anybody noticed the same ease of logging?


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## Aviaa25 (Jan 18, 2014)

New version of eurodyne flashing software downloaded , reflash base file again , now all good!
All i need is a fine tuning..
Will do it soon


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

It's been awhile since I was using maestro... so this is going to sound very noobish

It was my understanding that the Power Enrichment map is lambda control based on throttle position vs RPM. I can provide my car more reliable fueling when getting into boost if I could use this map. My issue back a year ago is I didn't know how to get this map to work.

Now Maestro has a little description on the map that it will only be used if calculated torque is met. Do you guys have a procedure for modifying calculated torque? I'm assuming this is related to the target filling / optimum torque maps.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Technically it's requested torque, not TPS if I'm not mistaken.

But regardless, half throttle at different rpms in different gears results in a different load, and when fueling is based on requested torque and not actual load, you may end up with part throttle boost and the ecu targeting stoich.


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## Aviaa25 (Jan 18, 2014)

i was thinkin that i could flash base file and start driving my car ... easy right?!
i was wrong alot of things need to be changed and i have no idea how to start 
my maf stop reading for some reson.
having problem with base file to start from..
damn 

two users from here try to help me but im still looking for help 
does any one have a proper base file for gt28rs ev6 500cc injectors stock intake and tb 3" maf with stock sensor inside 
(its apr stage 3+ kit..)

my car 
seat leon mk1
1.8t 6 speed auq engine.

btw
for now i flashed awp gen2 vvt stage 3 ev14 550cc
scale down the injectors and on quicktune take down boost to 40% cuz it boost like crazy
i drive it slow cuz also got high timing pull

please help


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Technically it's requested torque, not TPS if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> But regardless, half throttle at different rpms in different gears results in a different load, and when fueling is based on requested torque and not actual load, you may end up with part throttle boost and the ecu targeting stoich.



So what you're telling me is stick to the full load lambda map for requested AFR?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

For the most part.

I'll get the party started with Power Enrichment because requested load is always faster than actual.

Knowing this you can target two different lambda values appropriately for different situations


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

i just cant seem to get my fueling right..

I know its best to start tuning with only one part changed at a time, but i already am to far off that point..

75mm TB, 630genII, 4barfpr, gt3071r, rmr intake.apexi ebc.

calculated constant and injector lag time from usrt also doesnt do the trick..i get way to lean(because off the rmr and 75mm TB)

i initialy tried to richen things up with alpha n and calculated airflow but somehow it didnt worked..it never got richer,no matter what value i put in.

so i started playing with the constant and bvc.

car is now ok part thorttle and pulls hard wot, but as you can see in the log the O2 correction is rich in second gear and lean in third.

what would be best practice, iron things out with the correction tabled? if so which one?

Log is second gear, third and than 4th a bit.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...jfM-EftZQgw/pubhtml?gid=524853049&single=true

thanks!


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Fix the permissions


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

i was able to view it, but as html, so i pasted it into a csv and posted it up to my site for ease of access:

2014_8_29-19.36.38.DataLog.csv (right click, save as)


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

robbyrr said:


> i just cant seem to get my fueling right..
> 
> I know its best to start tuning with only one part changed at a time, but i already am to far off that point..
> 
> ...


If your going lean because of the RMR/throttle body, then you need to adjust your Alpha N map. End of story. Set the latency and injector constant as calculated, and leave them alone for now.

Lets start with making sure your adjusting Alpha N correctly. How are you doing this?


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

Sorry for the link. 2014_8_29-19.36.38.DataLog - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m-a7icjMf1akDr3XWVwXWnCzhs-grDCgjfM-EftZQgw/edit?usp=sharing

Hope this is the correct one..thanks gitman:thumbup:

I tried with the calculated and given values fir ic and latency but it was barely drivable. I then adjusted calculated airflow upwards so that it sees more airflow at a given % throttle opening and adjusted alpha n as its inverse.

But i never got the desired results..i will try it again and take some logs.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

You need to adjust Alpha N, then let it recalculate the axis for the other map


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## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

has anyone had this pass mass state emissions? if please message me!


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## Scirocco king (Feb 15, 2003)

Well I am new on the forum here, I have started reading through all the posts. Is there a file that anyone has for the following: -gt28rs, 630cc injectors, hemi 80mm throttle body, integrated enginering intake manifold, maffless, running a blow off valve?


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## Littleman456 (Aug 25, 2014)

I've been searching and reading about maestro but I have two questions still.

1.) How do I view/edit a .mstro file that I read off my ecu? Maestro says it's an unsupported file type. 

2.) Once I do get the file open is there somewhere that will tell me what size injectors the map is for?

(Hopefully these are my last dumbass questions)


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

You cant edit the file that you read from your ECU.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I'm sure this has been discussed earlier, but part throttle tuning without a MAF sensor question:

On the Alpha-N table we have TPS % vs RPM and the values are arbitrary numbers that tell the car how much air is passing the throttle plate.

1. Can we change the Y Axis (TPS) for better resolution in the 50-100 range? Has this been tested and does it work well?

2. Say I was having an issue with part throttle where the corrections were all over the place. If I target the map at that RPM vs TPS % and change the value that will effect fuel injection correct?

2B. If I increase the airflow value the car will run richer? If I decrease the airflow value the car will run leaner?

3. I'm assuming that this is a good way to do part throttle tuning adjustments, however, main fuel correction and injection correction are the best ways to tune for WOT ?

4. If my previous assumptions are correct do you guys take a long part throttle long and run the histogram average values to the alpha n table and just blindly apply them or do you edit them manually and use the average values as a guide? Do small adjustments make a difference here (such as increasing a value by a point or two).


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

you can change the TPS axis to whatever you want but just make sure your changes to that axis are reflected in the inverse throttle vrs air map or else its gonna run horribly. You can either use your own approach as far was what TPS situations are more important to you than others. I found just reverting back to stock TPS values to start out is the easiest way to start out then working from there. If you increase values it will be richer and low them you get the opposite. Values won't match actual airflow.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Doooglasss said:


> I'm sure this has been discussed earlier, but part throttle tuning without a MAF sensor question:
> 
> On the Alpha-N table we have TPS % vs RPM and the values are arbitrary numbers that tell the car how much air is passing the throttle plate.
> 
> ...


Any other questions?


----------



## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Any other questions?


Thanks for the help- preparing for some street and dyno tuning and haven't touched this software in about a year...


I'm running E85 / 30psi of boost and from last year I remember the only way to get my fueling under boost in-line was the main fuel correction map. I have to add over 20% more fuel in boost. Is there a better way to do this now? Also in the 5k RPM up range I had 1.18 added into the injection correction map.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I prefer using main fuel correction till map limit, then using injection correction till then.

If your sticking with ethanol, I'll do the same with the timing maps.

22psig for the pump gas map, then the race fuel map for your peak boost value


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Keep in mind that the Alpha N map and it's inverse are used only up until VE = ~100% (off boost).

Absolute throttle angle is NOT it's input. Throttle angle is first MIN() with output of WDKUGDN before it's used as input for Alpha N.

WDKUGDN is map of throttle angle vs RPM where VE = 95% (transition area from off boost to on boost)

So, worrying about the high throttle angle area of the map is moot.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

elRey said:


> Keep in mind that the Alpha N map and it's inverse are used only up until VE = ~100% (off boost).
> 
> Absolute throttle angle is NOT it's input. Throttle angle is first MIN() with output of WDKUGDN before it's used as input for Alpha N.
> 
> ...




:thumbup:


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> I prefer using main fuel correction till map limit, then using injection correction till then.
> 
> If your sticking with ethanol, I'll do the same with the timing maps.
> 
> 22psig for the pump gas map, then the race fuel map for your peak boost value


Yep only running E85 in this car.

You seem to be saying I can enable automatic switching between the pump and race gas maps at a specific PSI? Is this done in quick tune? I don't know about this feature.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Not automatic. You will need to use QuickTune to change between the timing maps.

Just that timing at 22psig is going to be different than at 30, as anything past the map limit the ecu just rides the last column.

Doing this just lets you optimize your timing curve for various boost levels.


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

i took a few steps back and now im trying to get the alpha N set up properly as well, when i change the alpha N say +1 do I change TB vs Airflow +1 same location? 
also when i pull logs with the alpha N do i want to do them with boost or without? this on on a mafless setup


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2013)

All the features of maestro are over my head. So my question is there an e85 base tune for an awp tt Quattro or should I stick with a gonzo or other canned tune


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Do you already have Maestro?


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## Schnitzelburnr (Nov 13, 2009)

*ECU part number changes?*

Ok...so when doing anything on eurodyneflash it comes up in that message box with ecu part number, software version, vin etc.

well... my 'ecu part number' on there doesn't match my actual ecu part number, and the part number it gives some how changes when I flash to a different tune, is this normal?
thanks!


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I wouldn't be concerned. Mine has done that between various updates, flashes and basefiles. I believe my ecu ends in DL but it shows up as an SV.


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

Maxpowerz said:


> i took a few steps back and now im trying to get the alpha N set up properly as well, when i change the alpha N say +1 do I change TB vs Airflow +1 same location?
> also when i pull logs with the alpha N do i want to do them with boost or without? this on on a mafless setup



This is a good fundamental question that needs to be answered (for myself also:wave


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

No boost if possible.

There is a button on the Alpha n Map that will regenerate tb vs airflow axis


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> No boost if possible.
> 
> There is a button on the Alpha n Map that will regenerate tb vs airflow axis


Thanks:beer:

got that going now that only generates the main axis do i still need to add/subtract values from the same cells as the alpha N trace or once the main axis is adjusted the rest of the tb vs airflow graph stays the same?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

*FV-QR*

Has anyone on here worked with USRT Genesis II Double Fogger 1200cc injectors? I'm looking for good maestro BVC values. I have received dead times from USRT, however, I received conflicting information. Used one of the tables to test out on my car and it ran terribly. Upon asking them to clarify I was told they are still under testing for the correct values.

If someone on here has figured out the BVC values can you please post them? Also what fuel pressure you're running at? I'm running 60psi base. Thanks!


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Doooglasss said:


> Has anyone on here worked with USRT Genesis II Double Fogger 1200cc injectors? I'm looking for good maestro BVC values. I have received dead times from USRT, however, I received conflicting information. Used one of the tables to test out on my car and it ran terribly. Upon asking them to clarify I was told they are still under testing for the correct values.
> 
> If someone on here has figured out the BVC values can you please post them? Also what fuel pressure you're running at? I'm running 60psi base. Thanks!


I am running the 1200cc double offers at 4 bar. I will have to check my laptop when I get home to see what the BVC values are. 

What kind of issues are you having?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> I am running the 1200cc double offers at 4 bar. I will have to check my laptop when I get home to see what the BVC values are.
> 
> What kind of issues are you having?


Thank you- if you don't mind sending me your injector constant too? (are you running gasoline? What size CC motor used to calculate?)

Having the above as a baseline would be very helpful!

very rich idle (.75) and very lean (1.2) when on the gas pedal but it will recover in the higher RPMS (without boost). There are a whole bunch of variables involved here though. This is the first night I've driven the car and I'm also running E85. I have prior experience tuning e85 on this car, however, not with these injectors. I didn't have much time to spend messing with it. This 5 minutes to flash a car nonsense is a pain in the ass compared to the MegaSquirt instant update I've been working with lately.

I calculated that 1200cc @ 43.5 psi changes to 1409cc at 60 psi. Removed ~33% from that and programmed it into the injector wizard.

2008cc, 4 cyn, 965cc = injector constant: 0.038184 - I'm not sure I trust the wizard.

The BVC values I ran last night were:


PSID8 Volts10 Volts12 Volts14 Volts16 Volts603.211.861.451.180.84

<tbody>

</tbody>

The other specs that USRT sent to me (and I'm going to try tonight) are:


8 Volts10 Volts12 Volts14 Volts16 Volts6016801105780580455

<tbody>

</tbody>


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Doooglasss said:


> Thank you- if you don't mind sending me your injector constant too? (are you running gasoline? What size CC motor used to calculate?)
> 
> Having the above as a baseline would be very helpful!
> 
> ...


I calculated my IC using 1781cc displacement.

I am running gasoline at the moment. These injectors do not flow 1400cc at 4 bar. 

They should flow closer to 1333 cc


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> All the features of maestro are over my head. So my question is there an e85 base tune for an awp tt Quattro or should I stick with a gonzo or other canned tune


I do not already have maestro or a e85 tune but in trying to decide. It's a 2001 audi tt 180q with an awp. Anyone know if there is an e85 base tune for me


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I do not already have maestro or a e85 tune but in trying to decide. It's a 2001 audi tt 180q with an awp. Anyone know if there is an e85 base tune for me


No e85 base tune.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2013)

spartiati said:


> No e85 base tune.


Anyone an awp e85 tune they could hook me with if I go this route


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Anyone an awp e85 tune they could hook me with if I go this route



Joe- you know you'll have to change injectors and add an in-line fuel pump at a minimum to support E85 right?

Also a tune that someone supplies you won't be a one size fits all application. You will need to tailor it for your car- it could be minor or major depending on how varied your hardware is.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2013)

Yes I know planing on a Bosch 044 and 630 cc injectors. Gonzo and many others offer a e85 canned tune so I don't imagine someone's 600cc e85 tune would be any worse


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2013)

Doooglasss said:


> Joe- you know you'll have to change injectors and add an in-line fuel pump at a minimum to support E85 right?
> 
> Also a tune that someone supplies you won't be a one size fits all application. You will need to tailor it for your car- it could be minor or major depending on how varied your hardware is.


Yes Bosch 044 and 630cc injectors is the plan. Gonzo and many others offer canned e85 tunes for the awp. So I don't see why someone's meastro file would be any worse. Not to mention if someone one here has a e85 awp tune on stock turbo I'm willing to adjust my hardware to match. Would at least give me a jumping off point to learn from and room to grow.


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## treid (Mar 3, 2012)

What are your HP goals? 630's won't go too far on E85.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2013)

treid said:


> What are your HP goals? 630's won't go too far on E85.


Well I want to keep stock turbo for now and stock rods so what ever the limit of that is but the way I see it e85 an upgraded intercooler and my 42dd down pipe and 3 inch straight pipe along with a few mods should be good for around 250


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## A4tuurbo (Dec 29, 2009)

So I just got my maestro setup yesterday and I'm having an issue flashing the car. I searched but I couldn't find anything that really answered my question. I was able to read the ecu and get my file sent to Eurodyne. My problem is when I go to flash the base file onto the ecu the flash loader attempts to connect and then I get an error that says "failed to start communications. Make sure the ignition is turned on." It doesn't get past the "waking up controller" stage of the flash. I tried changing the com port and I also checked all my fuses and everything is fine. Any ideas what might be wrong?


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

A4tuurbo said:


> So I just got my maestro setup yesterday and I'm having an issue flashing the car. I searched but I couldn't find anything that really answered my question. I was able to read the ecu and get my file sent to Eurodyne. My problem is when I go to flash the base file onto the ecu the flash loader attempts to connect and then I get an error that says "failed to start communications. Make sure the ignition is turned on." It doesn't get past the "waking up controller" stage of the flash. I tried changing the com port and I also checked all my fuses and everything is fine. Any ideas what might be wrong?


Try changing your flash/comm speed to medium 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## A4tuurbo (Dec 29, 2009)

I actually tried all 3 different com speeds. It doesn't even get to the point where it recognizes the ecu model number. Like I said I'm totally baffled because it read the ecu just fine and saved the file automatically.


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## volksspoolen (Feb 13, 2005)

> Interesting finding yesterday. So I had posted a while back on the difference between the vvt active and nonvvt file in terms of driveability. Basically I always had a rough cold start and hiccups/jerking around 1500-1900rpms.
> 
> Since I don't really need the quicker spool for my F23 I had always disabled the vvt by setting all the cells to 0. Well, there must be something else that oversees VVT function aside from that one table. I unplugged the vvt and put a resistor into the harness instead. All the hiccups are now gone.
> 
> Has anyone else had this experience?


I've always had the hiccup poking along at that RPM range

my cam timing value has always looked like this, from my base tune. values look off to me, should it be all .0012?


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## A4tuurbo (Dec 29, 2009)

A4tuurbo said:


> I actually tried all 3 different com speeds. It doesn't even get to the point where it recognizes the ecu model number. Like I said I'm totally baffled because it read the ecu just fine and saved the file automatically.


So I just switched cables and tried connecting with Vag-Com Lite and I get the same results. It recognizes the cable but can not start communications with 01-Engine, or any controller for that matter.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

volksspoolen said:


> I've always had the hiccup poking along at that RPM range
> 
> my cam timing value has always looked like this, from my base tune. values look off to me, should it be all .0012?


Dealing with this aswell... Its figure this all out finally!

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Hey everyone. Little issue I've just noticed on my car. Runs great everywhere. Only place I noticed it was in the logs. During a full throttle pull it will drop o2 corrections at around 6500 rpms. Thankfully it doesn't go lean but a little richer than 12:1. 

Now when this happens the corrections will just show the last corrected amount. 

I've tried tapering the fueling in the main fuel and Injector corrections table but that didn't help. In the log posted I set the second pull to taper a little leaner after 6000. Same thing. No leaks or anything wrong with the car that I know of. 

Last bit of info: never does it if I run 15psi to redline. Only if I run 22psi and taper to 20 by redline.

Anyone have any experience with this?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j8itc88ii18vf7e/logs.xlsx?dl=0


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

A4tuurbo said:


> So I just switched cables and tried connecting with Vag-Com Lite and I get the same results. It recognizes the cable but can not start communications with 01-Engine, or any controller for that matter.


When you turn the ignition, but not start the car. Does your check engine light turn on? If not, my first guess is you can have a bad ECU.


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Correct.


So I finally have my car on the road. Today I drove her to work and my Air/Fuel gauge has passed 18, so it's still running super lean, right now I want to concentrate on my throttle body before I move to the fueling. I'm see more ppl having issues with the 75mm tb like I am. On sunday I did a few good logs and ran a trace on Alpha N and Fuel Correction. The car is not run good, when I drive and want to stop, I press on my clutch and it stays reving like around 2000 rpms and it goes up to maybe 2500 and then back down to 2000. The way I stop it from doing that is by bringing the rpms down to maybe 800 and then it stays around there. I have a question though... Is Alpha N and Throttle Angle vs Airflow the 2 key tabs to adjust to get the 75mm tb right?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

un1ko said:


> So I finally have my car on the road. Today I drove her to work and my Air/Fuel gauge has passed 18, so it's still running super lean, right now I want to concentrate on my throttle body before I move to the fueling. I'm see more ppl having issues with the 75mm tb like I am. On sunday I did a few good logs and ran a trace on Alpha N and Fuel Correction. The car is not run good, when I drive and want to stop, I press on my clutch and it stays reving like around 2000 rpms and it goes up to maybe 2500 and then back down to 2000. The way I stop it from doing that is by bringing the rpms down to maybe 800 and then it stays around there. I have a question though... Is Alpha N and Throttle Angle vs Airflow the 2 key tabs to adjust to get the 75mm tb right?


I want to make sure your setting trace parameter to 02 corrections, and the histogram to average before letting the logger run.

Ive got 80mm units to drive halfway decent so a 75mm should not be an issue


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> I want to make sure your setting trace parameter to 02 corrections, and the histogram to average before letting the logger run.
> 
> Ive got 80mm units to drive halfway decent so a 75mm should not be an issue


I didn't do the trace parameter to 02 corrections, but I did do the histogram to average (I remember you telling me that). Tomorrow I will try it again. Thank!


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> I want to make sure your setting trace parameter to 02 corrections, and the histogram to average before letting the logger run.
> 
> Ive got 80mm units to drive halfway decent so a 75mm should not be an issue


And we are talking about Alpha N only right?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Yes sir


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

Noob Question. I noticed i have 2 AFR maps. Power Enrichment and Full Load Lambda. A little confused between the two. The Power Enrichment shows one steady AFR under full load. The Full Load Lambda shows my AFR's richening up the RPM range. I have read that it gets richer to prevent ATR detection?, what is ATR detection, and is it better to not have it rich out. I would believe it would richen out to prevent knock, but not sure. 

Also, I hit -2.25 on 1 and 4, at about 5,000 RPM's, i was told this is normal, but would love to get rid of that. Im at 198 in Target Filling and 13.500* of timing.

This is a Stage 2 Base map for a 2009 GTI 2.0 TSI CBFA.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Send me your file via PM. TSI stuff isn't openly available for review


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## grasman94 (Nov 26, 2013)

PM'd


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Hi guys! I've been away from Maestro for a while, hence I ask the following. How are you making the turbo spool more lineal/smoother? In other words, avoid that sudden spike that get the wheels spin. Car in question has a 3076, IE mani, and a bunch of other goodies. I remember seeing a post saying that after playing with X map the car felt 1:1, meaning gas pedal/response.
Thanks in advance


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## Littleman456 (Aug 25, 2014)

Here's the deal, maestro logviewer and flasher work but I can't load base tunes in maestro. Tried reinstaliing twice, updated to the latest version and it still opens the little window with the "read me" button but the area that should have the engine codes listed is blank. When I exit the little window it says "could not load base files". I tried this on several WiFi connections. Newer laptop with Windows 8 running the program in xp service pack 3 compatibility mode. Any ideas? Thanks.


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Yes sir


Ok the car is running way better. The only thing now that is bothering me is that I still have the rpms going up to 2000 to 2500 up and down and then the car idles at about 800 rpms. Any idea how I can fix that?


Also on 32 I have 7.9 and -7.0, so I'm going to adjust that. So far the injector constant is .030081


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Shut off long term trims


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Shut off long term trims


Hey Dave was this to me?


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

Yes I believe in order to properly adjust your STFTs, you need to disable LTFTs.


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

gitman said:


> Yes I believe in order to properly adjust your STFTs, you need to disable LTFTs.


ok thanks!


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

a4e3y5 said:


> Hi guys! I've been away from Maestro for a while, hence I ask the following. How are you making the turbo spool more lineal/smoother? In other words, avoid that sudden spike that get the wheels spin. Car in question has a 3076, IE mani, and a bunch of other goodies. I remember seeing a post saying that after playing with X map the car felt 1:1, meaning gas pedal/response.
> Thanks in advance


Anybody?


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

a4e3y5 said:


> Anybody?


I would say boost duty map if you are using an n75. Been working on getting the two maps down with Dave for awhile now

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

euroguy666 said:


> I would say boost duty map if you are using an n75. Been working on getting the two maps down with Dave for awhile now
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


Thanks man! The car does not have the n75 so I guess I need to play with some other map/s.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

a4e3y5 said:


> Hi guys! I've been away from Maestro for a while, hence I ask the following. How are you making the turbo spool more lineal/smoother? In other words, avoid that sudden spike that get the wheels spin. Car in question has a 3076, IE mani, and a bunch of other goodies. I remember seeing a post saying that after playing with X map the car felt 1:1, meaning gas pedal/response.
> Thanks in advance


Bump one last time....thanks in advance.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Do you mean where your not gettting part throttle boost, where its an all or nothing deal?


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Do you mean where your not gettting part throttle boost, where its an all or nothing deal?


Hi Dave. I want to soften the boost spike to minimize wheel spin...in other words make power a tad more linear. Car has a 3076, SLD, and other goodies so i know wheel spin is inevitable, ut if i can soften it a tad more that would be great cuz then i can play with a dual boost controller or such.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I think I didn't explain right. 

Like once you build boost you can't control it with the pedal, like it goes right to whatever your peak pressure is

You could always soften the timing when/where the boost hits.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> I think I didn't explain right.
> 
> Like once you build boost you can't control it with the pedal, like it goes right to whatever your peak pressure is
> 
> You could always soften the timing when/where the boost hits.


Thanks. I guess i have no choice. This is a favor im doing to my friend. He will be in a roll race soon and wanted to avoid spin since he cant mount stickier tires.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Yea just soften the timing down low.

If it's going to be flat out stuff like Shift Sector it won't hurt him too much.

Otherwise use another solenoid, some limit switches along with the dual stage boost controller so he can roll into it on the gate, and then ramp the boost up from there


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Yea just soften the timing down low.
> 
> If it's going to be flat out stuff like Shift Sector it won't hurt him too much.
> 
> Otherwise use another solenoid, some limit switches along with the dual stage boost controller so he can roll into it on the gate, and then ramp the boost up from there


It is one of tbose events where they simulate being in a half mile race while racing in a 1/4 mile strip. They leave the starting line at 30 mph.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Then I would use an evap solenoid of some sort (I think Hondas?) so you can run it off the wastegate.

30mph is gonna spin no matter what, may just have to pedal it


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Then I would use an evap solenoid of some sort (I think Hondas?) so you can run it off the wastegate.
> 
> 30mph is gonna spin no matter what, may just have to pedal it


Yeap...not too many options...i guess playing with the pedal may be the cure.


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Shut off long term trims


Car is running better, but I still have the car idling at 800. I went to 99 switched to basic and the LTFT is off then, I drove the car for a while, I'd say like 20 miles and now on 32 I have 1.9 and 9.4. All I adjust is the STFT and not touch the LTFT? Do I go back to 99 and turn it on?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

I don't believe that's how you 'shutoff LTFT'.


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

elRey said:


> I don't believe that's how you 'shutoff LTFT'.


I must of not understood this correctly then.

Disabling long term fuel trims (Force open loop)
The base maps should provide you with a good starting point but for those who want to truly dial in their car with a proper tune temporarily disabling fuel trims is necessary. By disabling the fuel trims you will turn off any air/fuel compensations, allowing the car to run in open loop mode. The benefit of this is it allows you to datalog raw uncorrected values. This is necessary to calibrate your MAF sensor & ALPHA-N. To force the computer into open loop you can remove the EVAP n80 valve from the engine harness or by using the Eurodyne Flash program. Open measuring blocks, Basic Settings, Block 099 to disable lambda regulation. WARNING: DISABLING O2 CORRECTION CAN HAVE SEVERE CONSEQUENCES IF CALIBRATION OR HARDWARE PROBLEMS EXIST! Only for experience users who clearly understand how motronic works.


Looking at this again I need to turn off air/fuel compensations, not sure how to do that. I did some search, but didn't find anything. Any help would be great!


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Unplug the N80 and log/tune away.

You want to shut off block 32. Shutting off via block 90whatever does not Stock.


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Unplug the N80 and log/tune away.
> 
> You want to shut off block 32. Shutting off via block 90whatever does not Stock.


What do I do if I don't have an N80? My car is an S4 with a 1.8T engine. 

I changed my file to AWP SEM Manifold 80mm 1000cc file and it's way better. I did change the fueling to match mine. 


I'm also thinking in maybe taking my car to a dyno and run some logs, is there any suggestions on what to do?


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## gitman (May 13, 2004)

do you still have the N80 harness and is it resistored? if so then remove the resistor, otherwise i'm not sure


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

gitman said:


> do you still have the N80 harness and is it resistored? if so then remove the resistor, otherwise i'm not sure


Lol! Yeah don't have it and not even resistored. So for tuning purposes I'm good because I'm looking to turn off, but once I adjust it I need to figue out how to get either an N80 or put a resistor. 


So 32 reads 7.9 and -7.0 should I adjust it the fuel or since I'm using a 75mm tb, should I run a log and then trace the Alpha N first?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

un1ko said:


> Lol! Yeah don't have it and not even resistored. So for tuning purposes I'm good because I'm looking to turn off, but once I adjust it I need to figue out how to get either an N80 or put a resistor.
> 
> 
> So 32 reads 7.9 and -7.0 should I adjust it the fuel or since I'm using a 75mm tb, should I run a log and then trace the Alpha N first?


 If your block 32 values are active your pissing into the wind making a calibration


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> If your block 32 values are active your pissing into the wind making a calibration


Ok this weekend I'll try to figure out how to connect the N80. I think I have one from what's left of my 98 A4. Thanks!


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## Canadian20th (Jan 23, 2013)

I got a quick question, and i want an answer from experienced maestro users. Not just from the low n show fanboys (so please don't say do some research)
I have a 20th, upgraded tip, dv, 3" tb exhaust, cai. NO TUNE
Firstly, am i damaging my motor by not running a tune with these mods?
Second, maestro vs canned tune? 
Any benefits i will realize with these mods alone with maestro? 
Does maestro help with reliability of the car? Also, may go BT in the future


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

You shouldn't be hurting anything.

Any tune will make a huge difference from where you are now. The stage 1 and 2 maestro files are great and will give you a huge jump in power from where you are now. If you never plan to do more than what you have now you can just flash a canned tune and call it a day. To fully optimize your tune I would recommend maestro even if you don't plan to go further in terms of power. You can really dial things in BUT... only if you take the time to read, log, tune and repeat.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

spartiati said:


> You shouldn't be hurting anything.
> 
> Any tune will make a huge difference from where you are now. The stage 1 and 2 maestro files are great and will give you a huge jump in power from where you are now. If you never plan to do more than what you have now you can just flash a canned tune and call it a day. To fully optimize your tune I would recommend maestro even if you don't plan to go further in terms of power. You can really dial things in BUT... only if you take the time to read, log, tune and repeat.


Well put.


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

so iv been playing with the alpha N for a bit and the mafless tune seems to be running really good. I was thinking of putting a MAF on it to see if it would be any benefit.
what sensor/housing would you guys recommend for the AWP tune? 
Looking at the readme in the meastro software i have 2 options
-2004 audi TT225 maf(this would fit my car the best)
-2000 audi s4 maf(does not specify hitachi or bosch)

I also read somewhere that the hitachi sensors are way better.
I don't want to really play with the sensor scaling if at all possible.

what sensor should i get?


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## Canadian20th (Jan 23, 2013)

Thank you very much for the informed reply. Looks like I'm going to do some more research and start saving up for maestro
Cheers


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## treid (Mar 3, 2012)

I just recently got my project up and running and am now tackling the tuning. I've been able to collect some logs, trace O2 corrections, and apply average values to the Alpha N map to get me started. One problem I'm running into however is during the drives the car wants to die on deceleration. As I come to a stop and hit the clutch, the RPMs dip way below idle. Sometimes I can tap the gas and get it to survive the stop, sometimes I can't. 

I believe this is a tuning issue - any ideas?


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## racinmasonc (Aug 3, 2008)

treid said:


> I just recently got my project up and running and am now tackling the tuning. I've been able to collect some logs, trace O2 corrections, and apply average values to the Alpha N map to get me started. One problem I'm running into however is during the drives the car wants to die on deceleration. As I come to a stop and hit the clutch, the RPMs dip way below idle. Sometimes I can tap the gas and get it to survive the stop, sometimes I can't.
> 
> I believe this is a tuning issue - any ideas?


are u on stock intake manifold? If so alpha n shouldnt change.

Nevermind seen ur post u have ie intake.. whats your full setup? That might help some guys to chime in?


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## treid (Mar 3, 2012)

racinmasonc said:


> are u on stock intake manifold? If so alpha n shouldnt change.
> 
> Nevermind seen ur post u have ie intake.. whats your full setup? That might help some guys to chime in?


Good point. I think these are the relevant specs:

2008cc
1000cc bosch ev14 injectors
80mm tb
IE intake manifold
3664 cat cams (high lift cams, the car idles at low vacuum probably less than 10inHg)
MAFless
non-VVT
50 trim turbo on wastegate only (no n75)

If I am missing anything let me know!

I'm starting from the AWP_G2VVT_Stage3_SemManifold_EV14_1000cc.mstro file as I think that is the best fit. 
Here is my current .mstro file: link
And here is the latest log: link

In that file I have set all the Main Fuel Corrections to 1.001 and I have gone through 2 rounds of tracing O2 corrections (one at idle only, one short drive like in the logs above). 

Now that I look at the log, I think the dying might be hardware related? Hard for me to say - this is the first log I've looked at. This log shows a lot of idling, and then some partial throttle runs in 1st and 2nd gear. It then shows the car dying at the end. There is some weirdness going on with the battery voltage, pulsewidths, and actual lambda right before it dies. Anybody seen anything like that before?

Also, how concerned should I be about those Timing Advance numbers? 

I appreciate any and all help. I'm new to this and have only done reading up to this point, so I don't know if what I'm looking at is completely normal or if the engine is only seconds from self-destruction.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

treid said:


> I appreciate any and all help. I'm new to this and have only done reading up to this point, so I don't know if what I'm looking at is completely normal or if the engine is only seconds from self-destruction.


The timing numbers under light load are normal. I thought the same thing when I first started. Like 30+ degrees advance ect ect. If it was under a hard pull and it was thru out the whole rpm range, then I'd be worried. But I think the motor would pop before reaching those advance numbers under full load/high rpm

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## treid (Mar 3, 2012)

Thanks for the reassurance ^^

I did some more logging today - I managed to keep the car from dying, but the RPMs still dipped well below idle a couple times as I was coming to a stop. The graph below shows me coasting in gear until about 1100 RPM, where I then press in the clutch. You can see the RPM drop to about 350 RPM, injector pulse time goes way up, and the battery voltage drops. 










I'm not quite certain where to go from here.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Well, I had the day off and decided it was time to get some tuning done on my car. I havent touched it since I got married in June and I want to get all of my problems resolved for a dyno day or two this spring.

I started off with a fresh 1000cc base file, tweaked my IC/BVC values for ~50psi base pressure, etc. Wanted a clean slate to start from.. AGAIN


Anyways, turned WMI off and took her for a spin. My block 32 values both showed negative (-0.9/ -2.9) so I made those edits, and drove around to see if they would hold steady near 0%. Both were within 1% so I tried out some WOT. 

O2 corrections were 15% positive in places, so I drove a couple hard passes on my tuning road and checked trims again. Still at about 1%, left it alone

I've almost never had the chance to play with ignition advance on any of my tunes, because I've always heard that fueling comes first, and I can NEVER get my effing fueling straight.. Anyways, I said screw it this time and decided to add some low end timing for some more grunt in the cruising range. If I have to redo this after more fueling edits then so be it. Added 2.25 in the 10-100 load/600-4000 rpm area. Drove the car and showed no KC so I added more. Rinse and repeat, ended up with like 8-10 degrees of added timing in the aforementioned area, upper range during WOT had minimal correction above 5000 RPM and 160 load so I addressed that. 

Question time:

How much advance are you other BT guys seeing on a WOT pull? Im sitting in the 20-25 range which seems a little high to me.

Here's a log from the end of my last run of the day. Only have arount 4500+ because this was taken from a bigger log and I wasnt specifically shooting for a perfect WOT log 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9fej8UQof0iYU9JZHRrOV9LSms/view?usp=sharing

I pulled 2.25 degrees advance in the area that had -4.5 correction, but thats how I left it for the day. Ill post my tune if anyone wants to critique


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Doesnt look bad.

Keep in mind every engine is different, some like a lot of timing some dont. That being said, your values look inline for only running 15psi


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

your seeing 20-25 degrees because your only hitting around 160% load. You either need to correct your load calculation or soften the timing map in those load area's, fixing the load calculation would make more sense which would also fix your 02 correction. Seems like your crossing into full load lambda for desired fueling because I don't think you mean to be targeting .86. So set full load lambda trigger up too 800*c then use your power enrichment map for fueling. .82 is a solid number to shoot for just before the start of full load. Reason why I'm telling you that is because if your playing around with varying boost settings and your using full load lambda then you'll be targeting leaner lambda at lower loads.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

.85 is actually where I have my full load lambda set under lower boost. Personal preference but I don't like running crazy rich to prevent detonation until above MAP limit. I know .82 isn't too far off but I have target lambda tapering to ~.82 after load is higher. 15 psi isn't much for my turbo so it should be fairly safe and it feels good. 

I've never played with load calculations thoigh. Is that done via torque control maps? All I've ever really done for fueling is fix my trims by just a hair and then try multiple ways of getting corrections in check. Main fuel never worked very well, injection correction was great for part throttle, alpha n and it's inverse was the best I've ever had fueling. Corrections never swayed more than 2% while mafless, but everyone says this is a no-no so I'm back to square 1. 

I have a v8 MAF but it's unplugged ATM. I want to get fueling right without a MAF, and then when it's plugged in, make any additional edits via the flow meter settings. Not sure if it's better done a different way but I'm still fairly new to knowing what map to tweak for the desired effect. I'm getting more tuning done today either way so any suggestions are welcome


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> your seeing 20-25 degrees because your only hitting around 160% load. You either need to correct your load calculation or soften the timing map in those load area's, fixing the load calculation would make more sense which would also fix your 02 correction. *Everyone has their own taste, but the timing is fine. Load values are correct, as LDRXN=(Boost-300)/10)*Seems like your crossing into full load lambda for desired fueling because I don't think you mean to be targeting .86. So set full load lambda trigger up too 800*c then use your power enrichment map for fueling. .82 is a solid number to shoot for just before the start of full load. Reason why I'm telling you that is because if your playing around with varying boost settings and your using full load lambda then you'll be targeting leaner lambda at lower loads.


Everyone has their own taste on fueling curve, but I prefer to start fueling with Power Enrichment but only on WOT. Anything less than that I just fuel via Full Load Lambda, to prevent a situation of having positive manifold pressure (part throttle couple lbs of boost) and a stoich lamba


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

So if load calculations are correct then what could be causing the large positive corrections?

My setup really doesn't make boost under part throttle and I've never seen lean lambda under less that ideal conditions while logging, but how would you set up power enrichment to come on in a full throttle run but have full load active on a part throttle situation? Seems like setting full load trigger low enough to engage under part throttle would also trigger it on WOT before power enrichment really does anything.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Load requested is always faster than load actual.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

I guess I misinterpreted what you meant then 

And as for the funky corrections?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

power enrichment uses throttle input(value isn't TPS but torque request from throttle map), full load uses calculated load for target lambda. You can use either map but if your using full load lambda and your not going to fix your load calc then adjust it for your actual load. I'm saying if your switching between low and high boost all the time then power enrichment is the way to go. Theres little to no benefit using full load over enrichment, resolution isn't needed you just need to pick a safe lambda to target. Leaning it out will make little difference when you hit the rollers. 

Your right about basic load calculation (I didn't take the time to calculate them). But thats for RL, there are other factors input to determine actual. Graphing RL and actual would be better than just basing it on peak load. I'll have to go back and do some digging to give more info on it.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

You lost me lol

I understand how the lambda requests work, and how to set my requested lambda to where I want it, and when I want it. I set full load to .82 and enrichment to .85 and found where the map switches under full throttle, tweaked it a bit to make it come on where I want it, and made a nice taper from .9 to .85 by the time my turbo is getting more airflow. 

So request load comes from torque control maps. Wot rl would be the last column of VE right?
I left that at 240 because I do plan on cranking the boost up after I'm done getting my corrections in check. 30 psi translated to about 230 load last time I ran my car that hard so I wanted to leave room in the maps for that, when I get there

I would love to try fixing the load calculation if it's something that will be necessary considering I'm tuning for 30 psi eventually, just not entirely sure how to go about it. Even if it doesn't fix my corrections, it would be nice to learn something new. I don't need a 5 page DIY or anything either. I'm very familiar with HOW to make edits in maps, just not sure which ones I should change in this scenario. Anyone care to throw me a bone?


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2013)

Anyone tinkering with e85 and a ko3s on an awp lately ?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I did.

What would you like to know?


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2013)

Dave926 said:


> I did.
> 
> What would you like to know?


I would like to know if there is a base tune I can adjust fueling on for e85 and if will have access to all the needed maps.

I also would like to know if I will be able to get any help from the community.

And thirdly lol. I would like to know if it is going to be any less difficult then starting from scratch with say winols or tuner pro.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

There is no E85 specific tune, but it is easy enough to do. Adjusting your injector constant is 90% of it


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Unrelated to my previous post (still working on getting corrections in check), has anyone here really played with the Knock based fueling maps? 

I've been reading up on it on nefmoto, and it seems like a good alternative to the way a lot of people here set target lambda.

As a lot of you know, lambda target is set by the richest requested value from a number of sources. It makes sense to set target lambda to different values for different situations. For example, set lambda for best torque output, and leave a series of safety nets so to speak, if the ECU detects anything wrong. We have power enrichment to set a rich lambda in preparation for increasing loads, full load lambda that triggers at a variable calculated EGT, and now knock sensor regulated fueling.

I'm working on setting this up right now, but here is the plan:

-Use power enrichment to target lean best torque for extra power out of boost and higher EGT to get my turbo going.

-Set up KFLAMKRL/KFLAMKR for general WOT fueling under the 0 KC column. I have load set up as 50, 75, 100, 120, 150, 180. I bring enriched fuel target on at 120 load. Fueling should follow Power enrichment table until 120 load is achieved at which point, KFLAMKRL will drop it down to .85 and taper to .82 as load increases.

-If any knock correction appears, lambda is reduced further to cool down cylinder temps and suppress knock. Lambda request tapers from .84 at 5.25 KC down to .75 at 22 degrees KC

-Additionally, I have full load lambda set up for enrichment when EGT passes the 750C mark on the EGT model. This setpoint is subject to change as I find how lambda request changes during normal conditions. 

Just wanted to spread this info here, as all of these tables are there for a reason, and I believe this is safer than just running PE for preemptive enrichment and then full load as the main WOT target. Knock enrichment could potentially prevent catastrophic failure, as it in theory should self regulate knock and keep the engine where its happy

I'll post back with results when I get done testing this out :thumbup:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Hey everyone. I've recently purchased an ASUS t100ta for logging and tuning purposes. Great battery life and fits perfectly in the larger revised glovebox.

I was curious to see if anyone has tried the newer windows 8 tablets (something like the Dell venue 7or8)with a USB OTG cable? Obviously I'd be using this mainly for logging and maybe flashing.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

That info isn't anything new. In your case sticking with power enrichment is the way to go. I've always used it. Also you won't be able to correct for 30psi because of the map limit. Stick with your current load calculation and make the adjustments in injection correction/mainfuel. If you want to play around with load calculation (which is different when your running mafless) then ask yourself how actual load is determined in that mode. Correction actual load is very limited in mafless setups. Your better off getting your idle/part throttle together then switching back to maf and calibrating your maf.


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

spartiati said:


> Hey everyone. I've recently purchased an ASUS t100ta for logging and tuning purposes. Great battery life and fits perfectly in the larger revised glovebox.
> 
> I was curious to see if anyone has tried the newer windows 8 tablets (something like the Dell venue 7or8)with a USB OTG cable? Obviously I'd be using this mainly for logging and maybe flashing.


i use a dell 8 pro with the otg cable and it works perfect except for software updates which seem to happen daily, you have to do those manually.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Maxpowerz said:


> i use a dell 8 pro with the otg cable and it works perfect except for software updates which seem to happen daily, you have to do those manually.


Eurodyne software updates or something else? No issues flashing with it or having any dropped connections during logging?


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

spartiati said:


> Eurodyne software updates or something else? No issues flashing with it or having any dropped connections during logging?


zero issues flashing with it and iv flashed it LOTS of times

when logging sometimes i get too many errors to continue, i find this comes up after i hit rough road. also if the dell goes to sleep everything gets confused and it takes a bit of playing to get reconnected, note to self set sleep timer to 5h

bottom line for 150 bucks a laptop with 6h+ battery ill take even if it has some kwirks. as i remember it a full HP laptop did have the same issue with too many errors to continue when i hit crap road.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Couldn't agree more. The Asus T100TA is also a solid platform. Cheap, over 10 hours of battery life and laptop/tablet mode ... I may grab the venue just to throw around.


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## DesmoLover (Dec 24, 2014)

Hey guys, need some help from the experts.

I've been running an older 630cc Tapp file (Not Maestro, deleted emissions, Mafless) with my 3076R for ~5 years with no issues. The car has always ran fine, good power, good gas mileage, and passed California smog without any issues. California recently updated its smog procedure/equipment and now I have 2 problems...The first problem is the automatic readiness flags as a "N/A" on the new machines (instead of Pass or Fail) . Second problem is the ECU VIN does not match my vehicle's VIN. I have the emissions equipment (with stock cat) still on the car, so the hardware is not the problem.

If I send the ECU to a Eurodyne dealer, can they update my 630cc flash to turn the emissions back on, and re-write the VIN?

If I purchase Meastro, can I accomplish both of those?

Any input or experience is appreciated, thanks!


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

DesmoLover said:


> Hey guys, need some help from the experts.
> 
> I've been running an older 630cc Tapp file (Not Maestro, deleted emissions, Mafless) with my 3076R for ~5 years with no issues. The car has always ran fine, good power, good gas mileage, and passed California smog without any issues. California recently updated its smog procedure/equipment and now I have 2 problems...The first problem is the automatic readiness flags as a "N/A" on the new machines (instead of Pass or Fail) . Second problem is the ECU VIN does not match my vehicle's VIN. I have the emissions equipment (with stock cat) still on the car, so the hardware is not the problem.
> 
> ...


The best thing is just call or email Eurodyne and asking them. As for purchasing the Maestro, if you're not going to be doing changes to your car then I don't think you should spend the money. If you are planning on changing your mods, then yeah I think it's worth it once you understand how to use it.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Hey guys. Weird issue I have come across. For some reason if I run the car above the 22.5psi map limit the car will drop o2 corrections around 6500-6600rpms until redline. O2 corrections prior to this happening are within 5%. This is with water meth disabled. I'll post a log when I get a chance to sit in front of the laptop.

Any ideas what can be causing this?
O2 sensor is less than 2 months old and no vacuum leaks.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

spartiati said:


> Hey guys. Weird issue I have come across. For some reason if I run the car above the 22.5psi map limit the car will drop o2 corrections around 6500-6600rpms until redline. O2 corrections prior to this happening are within 5%. This is with water meth disabled. I'll post a log when I get a chance to sit in front of the laptop.
> 
> Any ideas what can be causing this?
> O2 sensor is less than 2 months old and no vacuum leaks.


What target AFR?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

12.05 tapering to 12.15 towards redline. I leaned it out a bit to see if that would help but it didn't. Originally I ran 11.95 tapering to 12.05


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mx8xaeexfmxwn24/dropped o2.jpg?dl=0


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Hey guys. Weird issue I have come across. For some reason if I run the car above the 22.5psi map limit the car will drop o2 corrections around 6500-6600rpms until redline. O2 corrections prior to this happening are within 5%. This is with water meth disabled. I'll post a log when I get a chance to sit in front of the laptop.
> 
> Any ideas what can be causing this?
> O2 sensor is less than 2 months old and no vacuum leaks.


What temperature is your EGT threshold set for? I keep it at 950˚c to avoid having the ECU switch over to Full Load Lambda and the associated Open Loop control (or lack of it, really).


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> What temperature is your EGT threshold set for? I keep it at 950˚c to avoid having the ECU switch over to Full Load Lambda and the associated Open Loop control (or lack of it, really).


Lambda control algorithm does not matter. Ecu can maintain accurate closed loop lambda control with the target values posted, 1 post below what is quoted.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I have it set to 1050 currently.


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## Joe_Anni (Aug 20, 2014)

I had the same problem as you but with my WM kit on, and i got a CEL for O2 Heater, later on the O2 died and when i changed it it has around 2 mm of black carbon on it, i think it is because of the using of NSL??!!! Will be interested to know how did you solve it.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Still working on it. It dies it with meth on or off. I also don't use NLS or 2 step.


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## Joe_Anni (Aug 20, 2014)

spartiati said:


> Still working on it. It dies it with meth on or off. I also don't use NLS or 2 step.


It died with the Meth enable and the NLS and 2 step activated. When i remove it the head of the O2 sensor was all covered in black carbon...
I deactivated the NLS and 2 step, and replace the o2 sensor and the car is driving well . However still have a CEL from time to time concerning the O2 sensor heater and i guess it is related to the WM being on, sometimes i got these CEL 17524 & 17511 and the O2 correction will be zero, Dave told me it has something to do with my WM setup because it is spraying too much and there is not enough delay between the start spraying and full spray... Maybe i should drop my WM pump pressure below 170PSI? I dunno frankly.. I am enjoying Dave tune for my F21T and the 286whp!!!


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Lambda control algorithm does not matter. Ecu can maintain accurate closed loop lambda control with the target values posted, 1 post below what is quoted.


I'm not going to try and claim I'm a tuner, because I'm not. But in my years' experience with Maestro, when the EGT threshold has been exceeded the ECU switches to the Full Load Lambda map and goes into open loop. Why that happens, I don't know. Furthermore I don't know why the ECU will fall into open loop if the Power Enrichment map has cels with values below 0.80 Lambda. But it does. So my workarounds for both have been to keep the threshold value at 950˚c or higher & to have a minimum of 0.81 Lambda in all cells of the Power Enrichment map.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not going to try and claim I'm a tuner, because I'm not. But in my years' experience with Maestro, when the EGT threshold has been exceeded the ECU switches to the Full Load Lambda map and goes into open loop. Why that happens, I don't know. Furthermore I don't know why the ECU will fall into open loop if the Power Enrichment map has cels with values below 0.80 Lambda. But it does. So my workarounds for both have been to keep the threshold value at 950˚c or higher & to have a minimum of 0.81 Lambda in all cells of the Power Enrichment map.


Only true for narrowband ECU, right? My wideband ECU always stay in closed loop.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Still working on it. It dies it with meth on or off. I also don't use NLS or 2 step.


Forgive me for asking, but what is the G,S,T,U,V columns on your data log Spartiati? everything else I can figure out


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## Joe_Anni (Aug 20, 2014)

Cryser said:


> Forgive me for asking, but what is the G,S,T,U,V columns on your data log Spartiati? everything else I can figure out


I guess G is boost duty, S is Bat voltage, T is Injection timing, U is actual AFR, V is actual torque.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser said:


> Forgive me for asking, but what is the G,S,T,U,V columns on your data log Spartiati? everything else I can figure out


Long time no see Cryser! How are you?

G - boost duty but I am running an MBC with a resistor where the n75 goes.
S - Voltage
T - Injector on time m/s
U - Actual AFR
V - torque calculation


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Joe_Anni said:


> I guess G is boost duty, S is Bat voltage, T is Injection timing, U is actual AFR, V is actual torque.


Dunno why this post wasn't there when I just posted mine just now, but this is correct. Thank you sir.


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## Joe_Anni (Aug 20, 2014)

spartiati said:


> Dunno why this post wasn't there when I just posted mine just now, but this is correct. Thank you sir.


:thumbup::beer:


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

spartiati said:


> Dunno why this post wasn't there when I just posted mine just now, but this is correct. Thank you sir.


I've been doing well, school and life unfortunately has kept me from much progress/fun with the Miata but that's the way it goes. Hope to get some meaningful progress with it this year.

How are your optimal torque maps looking in the area where you are losing correction? In the row before you lose your correction I notice that both the injection time and the actual torque change quite rapidly and uncharacteristically according to the rest of the log. This same thing also happens at 6308RPMS, where according to the datalog the car actually hesitates before continuing to rise in RPMS (6308RPM, 6301RPM) the injection time uncharacteristically increases, although not as much, in this row as well.

Just a though, those things stuck out in the data at me.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cryser said:


> I've been doing well, school and life unfortunately has kept me from much progress/fun with the Miata but that's the way it goes. Hope to get some meaningful progress with it this year.
> 
> How are your optimal torque maps looking in the area where you are losing correction? In the row before you lose your correction I notice that both the injection time and the actual torque change quite rapidly and uncharacteristically according to the rest of the log. This same thing also happens at 6308RPMS, where according to the datalog the car actually hesitates before continuing to rise in RPMS (6308RPM, 6301RPM) the injection time uncharacteristically increases, although not as much, in this row as well.
> 
> Just a though, those things stuck out in the data at me.


Never noticed that. Interesting. I was in a closed off road with a dip here or there so that may actually be a bit of loss of traction coming over those little mounds. Just a thought. 

The torque maps are unchanged from the original file. I had tweaked them but reverted back to the stock tables to try and cure this problem. The injector duty cycle I believe is jumping as a result of whatever else is going on. The car typically wants to go richer when that does happen.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

how is actual torque matching up with the optimal torque in those cells?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yg2mlpenrl7f0ql/opt.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5e3u13ff0kgilcu/target.jpg?dl=0


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Optimal torque: 

In the 5520RPM row from cylinder filling columns 120 & 204 percentage I'd bump those up 1% MAYBE 1.5%
Then in the 7500RPM row in those same columns Decrease by 2%-3%

run it again and see if you regain fuel trimming in the top end and that clears up the corrections in that area. It looks like the bumps in the road you described happened there but when the tires are on the actual road the car wants to produce a bit more torque then torque table allows it.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Thanks for seeing that. I knew an extra set of eyes would help out. We just got some snow by me so I won't be testing anytime soon. Traction is hard to come by in 3rd and 4th gear is a little excessive to get to those rpms.


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

I have:
from -5% to -9% LTFT @ idle and between +1% and -1% LTFT @ part throttle. 

From time to time I get a CEL for "rich additive fuel trims".

My current BVC values are as follows: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected]
Injector constant is 0.05883 ms/%.
What do I have to do to correct this idle?

Shall I attempt first a 5% reduction in [email protected]? 

step 1: -5/100 x 0.05883 = -0.0029415
step2: -0.0029415+1.39=1.387 ms @ 8V, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

Is it correct?^^


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## Schnitzelburnr (Nov 13, 2009)

Last couple days when I try to access quicktune it starts initializing, reads the ecu info out, starts verifying or whatever then gives up all of a sudden and says 

*Session failed; error code: timeout*

really starting to make me angry... is there a known solution?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

rogerius said:


> I have:
> from -5% to -9% LTFT @ idle and between +1% and -1% LTFT @ part throttle.
> 
> From time to time I get a CEL for "rich additive fuel trims".
> ...


I know you've been running this for a long time. I would look specifically at the logs and see where you are maxxing out the furl correction (-22%). Making global changes is good to get your tune close to where it needs to be but not it may only need tweaking in a specific cluster of cells in one of your fueling tables


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

Thank you, Steve!
We did today a correction in the Injector Correction map by removing 9% fuel gradually from idle till 2000rpm. I'll see the results. U know my hands are tied...
I will do logs in the next days and will interpret.
We did not touch the BVC.


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## 03wolfsmichaud (Mar 11, 2012)

*Software Download Issues*

has anyone had a message pop up when trying to download the maestro software that says "Failed to Load FTD2xx.DLL. Are the FTDI drivers installed?"


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

03wolfsmichaud said:


> has anyone had a message pop up when trying to download the maestro software that says "Failed to Load FTD2xx.DLL. Are the FTDI drivers installed?"


Try plugging the cable in and starting up maestro or the flasher. If that doesn't help just reinstall them. That's always helped me.


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## 03wolfsmichaud (Mar 11, 2012)

Thank you!


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Latest Flash update completely changed the design. How do you find blocks now? Say block 60 to do a TB realignment. .....

It's under controller diagnostics. :thumbup:


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

what is the general consensus for idle rpm with Siemens Deka 630cc injectors at 3bar? Where is the sweet spot? Is it with BVC and Inj Min Pulsewith given in the base file or are they tweaked?


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

I also have issues with idle still... Just won't stop surging during warmup. Could this be because of the coolant temp vs rpm map? Messed with it a bit. Now the car stalls in cold weather unless you sit and hold the rpms at 2000 until it warms up a bit. But the surging is slightly better lol

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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

*FV-QR*

Why doesn't this have it's own forum yet?


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> Why doesn't this have it's own forum yet?


id guess the main reason is the 1.8t is the 2.0 16v of the early 90's and getting more out dated as the keg gets lower and lower....... :beer:


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

carsluTT said:


> id guess the main reason is the 1.8t is the 2.0 16v of the early 90's and getting more out dated as the keg gets lower and lower....... :beer:


Eurodyne had one, they took it down for whatever reason. I'm thinking with aem coming out with the infinity PNP ecu, eurodyne will slowly get pushed out anyway unless they step it up

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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> Why doesn't this have it's own forum yet?


Maybe have a Sub-Forum under Technical (VW & Audi) called Engine Management Tuning - This can be good for all types of tuning, standalone questions, etc..


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

euroguy666 said:


> I'm thinking with aem coming out with the infinity PNP ecu...


MAF not supported, factory MAP not supported... At least the harness is PnP.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Sim said:


> MAF not supported, factory MAP not supported... At least the harness is PnP.


They have a map adapter. Maf, not sure about. 

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## vwdirector (Jan 31, 2006)

I'm looking into buying eurodyne maestro but I can't figure out if the flashes provided with maestro 7 will work with my AWW engine


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

vwdirector said:


> I'm looking into buying eurodyne maestro but I can't figure out if the flashes provided with maestro 7 will work with my AWW engine


AWP files will work for you.


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## vwdirector (Jan 31, 2006)

sponcar said:


> AWP files will work for you.


Thanks


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## dubdesigner (Sep 16, 2009)

Since I've installed the new Bosch ecu with Maesteo tuning suite, my windows no longer roll down via the interior switch, but will roll up and down using key in door lock. I've also noticed my interior lights stay on longer and eventually dim out as I'm driving. It's an 02 GTI 337, anyone else have this issue? Or any insight as to what's going on would be much appreciated. Thanks!


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## BradMk4 (Mar 1, 2014)

Have a quick question. Eurodyne will be at my door tomorrow, just wondering if an 03 gti 1.8t has a stock wideband sensor.. Basically can I rely on eurodyne to give me accurate lambda readings so I can tweak a couple things or do I need a wideband sensor and gauge?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

BradMk4 said:


> Have a quick question. Eurodyne will be at my door tomorrow, just wondering if an 03 gti 1.8t has a stock wideband sensor.. Basically can I rely on eurodyne to give me accurate lambda readings so I can tweak a couple things or do I need a wideband sensor and gauge?


03 gti = stock wideband


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## dubdesigner (Sep 16, 2009)

dubdesigner said:


> Since I've installed the new Bosch ecu with Maesteo tuning suite, my windows no longer roll down via the interior switch, but will roll up and down using key in door lock. I've also noticed my interior lights stay on longer and eventually dim out as I'm driving. It's an 02 GTI 337, anyone else have this issue? Or any insight as to what's going on would be much appreciated. Thanks!


Anyone? Sorry I know it may be a bit off "main topic", but it has to be directly related to the new additions. Since I purchased off fellow vortexer, I had to install his cluster and obviously immo defeated ecu. Not sure if cluster is causing the disabled window switch.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

dubdesigner said:


> Anyone? Sorry I know it may be a bit off "main topic", but it has to be directly related to the new additions. Since I purchased off fellow vortexer, I had to install his cluster and obviously immo defeated ecu. Not sure if cluster is causing the disabled window switch.



Why would you need to install new cluster if ecu was immo defeated?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

elRey said:


> Why would you need to install new cluster if ecu was immo defeated?


I think that the maestro dongle is paired to the Vin on the cluster and ecu. So technically if it is immo defeated you can run it in any car, but can't flash it because the ecu and cluster don't match.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

spartiati said:


> I think that the maestro dongle is paired to the Vin on the cluster and ecu. So technically if it is immo defeated you can run it in any car, but can't flash it because the ecu and cluster don't match.




Ah, I did not know that.


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## dubdesigner (Sep 16, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I think that the maestro dongle is paired to the Vin on the cluster and ecu. So technically if it is immo defeated you can run it in any car, but can't flash it because the ecu and cluster don't match.


:thumbup:

Not ideal, but it works. The immobilizer light is in a different location in cluster, than the original from my car. I think the guy I bought it off of had a 5-speed awp motor and did a 6-speed swap. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the window issue I'm having. It's just about to get warm out and now my windows don't roll down :banghead: Any input is greatly appreciated.


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## onelightmind (Oct 6, 2010)

*Help help help*

After a 5yr to date project we are having tuning issues...PLEASE HELP. My builder is threatining restricting the TB and replacing the IE Race cams with Stock. I believe this is his first Maestro tune and for a guy that is an amazing builder that knows Motec im sure he is frustrated. 

2001 Audi TT 

1.8 built big turbo

Head Ferrea intake and exhaust 2mm over-ported
Forged rods/Pistons stock cr
IE Race cams
bosch 044 fuel pump
custom fuel surge tank...stock FPR
PTE 5857 billet Ceramic ball bearing turbo
3" full exhaust
Seimens DEKA 870cc injectors
80mm Throttle body 
Wideband conversion 
Eurodyne Maestro (obviously)
Having problems with crappy idle and roll into throttle...choppy...and surges.

Does anyone have a similar setup that can send the files or help him troubleshoot?? OR Remote Tune...OR TEXAS tuner



Different Girl and different wheels...have not see the car for three years...PLEASE HELP TO FINISH LINE


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Sim said:


> MAF not supported, factory MAP not supported... At least the harness is PnP.


Why would there be a need for factory MAF support on an advanced speed density fueling control that's not factory-style TQ based? 

 And why would anyone want to support the 1.8t factory pressure sensor (not technically a MAP sensor since they don't see/read vacuum, and are not metering pressure in the manifold)? The provided 3.5 bar true MAP sensor is much more appealing to me with it's functionality and usefulness. No?


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Why would there be a need for factory MAF support on an advanced speed density fueling control that's not factory-style TQ based?
> 
> And why would anyone want to support the 1.8t factory pressure sensor (not technically a MAP sensor since they don't see/read vacuum, and are not metering pressure in the manifold)? The provided 3.5 bar true MAP sensor is much more appealing to me with it's functionality and usefulness. No?


To be fully plug and play. PnP means plug it in and turn the key in my interpretation.
$300+ (their me7 connector harness) will buy you more sets of connectors for any other aftermarket managememt units (you'd have to modify your own harness tho).

Using a good and properly calibrated MAF will give you the exact VE (and load) of your engine.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Sim said:


> To be fully plug and play. PnP means plug it in and turn the key in my interpretation.
> $300+ (their me7 connector harness) will buy you more sets of connectors for any other aftermarket managememt units (you'd have to modify your own harness tho).
> 
> Using a good and properly calibrated MAF will give you the exact VE (and load) of your engine.


Yes, PnP means plug it and turn the key and AFAIK that's what it does. Plug it, turn the key and start tuning -- not go out of your way to support factory sensors that are limited in performance and largely irrelevant to the tuning model and logic. 

I could understand the appeal of a maf if the factory one didn't have huge performance limitations (losing resolution at high voltage and having a very low airflow measuring ceiling); but factory "map", and other limited/useless sensors have no need to be supported in a completely different speed-density model. 

BTW, the infinity is capable of supporting not one but multiple MAFs in the auxiliary line, they just didn't feel that supporting a MAF that caps in the 300 G/s range made sense to integrate in their 1.8t harness (understandably).


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Yes, PnP means plug it and turn the key and AFAIK that's what it does. Plug it, turn the key and start tuning -- not go out of your way to support factory sensors that are limited in performance and largely irrelevant to the tuning model and logic.
> 
> I could understand the appeal of a maf if the factory one didn't have huge performance limitations (losing resolution at high voltage and having a very low airflow measuring ceiling); but factory "map", and other limited/useless sensors have no need to be supported in a completely different speed-density model.
> 
> BTW, the infinity is capable of supporting not one but multiple MAFs in the auxiliary line, they just didn't feel that supporting a MAF that caps in the 300 G/s range made sense to integrate in their 1.8t harness (understandably).


Looks like you are already sold on this one, so i gotta search for another tester...


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Sim said:


> Looks like you are already sold on this one, so i gotta search for another tester...


Yeah mate, trigger is pulled on the infinity for me. I'm working with them doing the beta testing on the Haldex/AWD integration for the 1.8t PnP bundle. I'll start a thread soon to share my journey with the new option, and show the amazing capabilities. :beer:


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Yeah mate, trigger is pulled on the infinity for me. I'm working with them doing the beta testing on the Haldex/AWD integration for the 1.8t PnP bundle. I'll start a thread soon to share my journey with the new option, and show the amazing capabilities. :beer:


Good. Chris miller had talked me into it a month or so ago.

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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Yeah mate, trigger is pulled on the infinity for me. I'm working with them doing the beta testing on the Haldex/AWD integration for the 1.8t PnP bundle. I'll start a thread soon to share my journey with the new option, and show the amazing capabilities. :beer:


Looking forward to this, might be a good option when I put my stroked 1.8t into my R32 shell


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## dubdesigner (Sep 16, 2009)

*Please help dial in best base tune + adjustments for k04-02x setup*

Calling all Maestro Masters, you reach a point where you just have to admit you're lost and well I'm there. I get the bare bones of the Maestro tuning suite and it's little quarks including how to flash with base file, then log data and then load both simultaneously in order to make adjustments but it's at this point I'm straight clueless as to what my next DEFINITIVE move is. Any guidance on what you think would be the best base file to start with (based on details included below) and the most common sequence of things to adjust after logging data with base file. So here are the specifics of my current setup:

'02 VW GTI 337 - AWP - Evap/SAI deleted

Turbo: K04-022
Manifold: TT 225
Exhaust: 42 DD 3" downpipe (catless) v-banded to remaining 3" vband exhaust
MAF: 3" MAF housing w/stock sensor
Injectors: 415cc Genesis @ 4bar
Wastegate: controlled by stock N75F valve - crack pressure set to 7psi
Ignition: 2.0T coil conversion w/NGK BKR7E plugs gapped to 0.28
FMIC: Neuspeed core, modified Godspeed piping
TB: Stock
Intake Mani: Stock w/Power Gasket

Current Base File: AWP Frankenturbo VVT VR6 MAF
- I figured this was the best to start with because I essentially have the same K04 hybrid setup but I used the injector wizard to adjust my inj constant 
- It only spikes between 15-16psi, whereas I was spiking at around 25psi w/Gonzo stage 3 tune, but with his I had surging issues in 5/6th gear, which he was absolutely no help in trying to fix, thus the reason I went the maestro route. 

Any guidance would be very much appreciated or if anyone has a similar setup and would be willing to share their flash file. I will add 3rd gear WOT data log here shortly, THANKS! :beer:


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

I know this isn't a fs thread but figured would be a great place for it. I no longer have my getta but I still have the ecu and cable. which is maesto tuned. Aww motor and ran a 50trim and a gt3071 with it. Make me an offer shoot me a pm whatever you want. I just don't have a use for it anymore.


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## dubdesigner (Sep 16, 2009)

weenerdog3443 said:


> I know this isn't a fs thread but figured would be a great place for it. I no longer have my getta but I still have the ecu and cable. which is maesto tuned. Aww motor and ran a 50trim and a gt3071 with it. Make me an offer shoot me a pm whatever you want. I just don't have a use for it anymore.


You've got to include the instrument cluster from the car as well or it won't work on any other car. GLWS :beer:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

euroguy666 said:


> Good. Chris miller had talked me into it a month or so ago.
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk





One-Eight GTI said:


> Looking forward to this, might be a good option when I put my stroked 1.8t into my R32 shell
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Looking forward to it myself, and I will do my best to take pics to document the progress. It was about time for the 1.8t to get a good standalone tuning option with the wide support base that AEM provides. Should be interesting! :beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

dubdesigner said:


> So here are the specifics of my current setup:
> 
> '02 VW GTI 337 - AWP - Evap/SAI deleted
> 
> ...


Have you experimented with the "Maestro Logger"? You'll find it in the dropdown menu for "Other Functions". Data log using that in WOT and then review the boost requests vs. boost actuals. You will also want to look at the Boost Duty percentage. My guess is you'll be wanting to adjust to raise all these values.


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## Gu4rDi4N (Mar 11, 2005)

Hi!

Any people knows 4b MAP Sensor?

For change my Stock 1.8T 2.5b MAP and remap.

Thanks!


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## dubdesigner (Sep 16, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Have you experimented with the "Maestro Logger"? You'll find it in the dropdown menu for "Other Functions". Data log using that in WOT and then review the boost requests vs. boost actuals. You will also want to look at the Boost Duty percentage. My guess is you'll be wanting to adjust to raise all these values.


Hey Doug thanks for the response, I've logged a bunch and have a solid 3rd gear WOT and 4th gear WOT data log which I can post a download link to and maybe you could take a look at it? I will load it and take a look at the things you mentioned.


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## dubdesigner (Sep 16, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Have you experimented with the "Maestro Logger"? You'll find it in the dropdown menu for "Other Functions". Data log using that in WOT and then review the boost requests vs. boost actuals. You will also want to look at the Boost Duty percentage. My guess is you'll be wanting to adjust to raise all these values.


Here is a download link to a data log which starts in 2nd gear --> 3rd WOT --> 4th WOT until I had to brake to avoid crashing into back of car in front of me lol


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## ArTT Vandelay (Mar 31, 2003)

*I'm a lurker, but need help!*

Dave926 has given me lots of great help to date, but I feel like I take advantage of that situation, and wanted to introduce myself a bit here... So.

2000 Audi TT quattro, ATC motor, running AWP ECU with wideband on maestro.
been running 630cc Gen II double foggers, but i'm tuning for e85, and they aren't big enough.
Frankenturbo F21, built bottom end (scat, calico, etc)
Bosch 044 inline, 034 fuel rail, fuelabs fpr.
what else matters?

I am trying to get 1200cc Genesis II injectors that just came in the mail today running, but I don't have BVC values that seem to work. Tried the ones listed here for the 1000's, which are "supposed" to work. they don't. car won't even idle.

I threw the 550's I have back in, just to make sure it's not a motor problem. Won't run for $hit.  Car won't boost. Boost requested is 21, actual is only 13.

I know. There are a hundred variables, and all could be causing problems.

The reality is that last year, I was running the 630's fairly successfully on e85 until mid season, when it started acting like there wasn't enough fuel. Doing the math for my goals, there wasn't.

I can't figure out the boost issue tonight, maybe I've blown a vacuum hose somewhere and it's one of those boost leaks that will take forever to find. Maybe it's a wastegate spring? what else could it be?

Also, would REALLY REALLY appreciate if someone has some successful use of these 1200cc injectors. I guess I assumed there would be other folks using them.

Thanks!

Ben


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

My recommendation is to do what I did, pay Dave to get you an awesome tune. I screwed with maestro for years and suffered from a car that ran sub par since I went big turbo. Paid Dave a very reasonable fee and my car has never ran better. Last summer was when this all went down me logging, sending him file and he would send me a new file to try, log send him it and repeat till the car ran strong. Wish I would of did it years ago, my car rips now. But that's just my recommendation


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

I think Ben's problem is hardware related. I've been following his progress and helping when I can on QuattroWorld, and the car ran decently well for a while. This is a new issue and I doubt is software related since nothing was changed on that front. I have a feeling that his factory in-tank pump (acting as a lift pump now since he runs a high flow inline that he also replaced for good measure recently) is giving out, or he has a whacky FPR or something. The original 550's don't work, 630's dont work (they ran fine before), and now the new 1,200s don't run as well. Something is up with hardware, maybe vacuum/pressure leak to the FPR or a bad in-tank... I think it's time to pressure test the system and run a dynamic fuel pressure test under load.


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## BradMk4 (Mar 1, 2014)

I just got eurodyne and just wanted to load the stage 1 flash because being completely stock is boring and I read the ecu then downloaded the awp stage 1 and when I go into flash, under flash cable I don't see license my vehicle only vehicle info. Any help? Should I just read ecu and try again?

EDIT: found it under credits


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## BlackA4stage3 (Feb 2, 2010)

can anyone tell me what the "switching active" check box is for/ what it does?


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

I have been reading so much on this thread and other through google search, but haven't found an answer. I have a built 20/20 I am putting in my ME7 A4. Since it is a 2L and not a 1.8t, do I need to change a VE table to reflect 2L. Not ideal but I will be using the stock turbo for the time being until I get an exhaust mani for my gtx turbo. The file that I flashed the ecu with is a stage 1 file downloaded from Eurodyne through Meastro.

EDIT: Think I found what I needed in the injector wizard, resize the engine and it changed injector constant from .1038 to .1162....am I on the right track?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Stroked1.8t said:


> EDIT: Think I found what I needed in the injector wizard, resize the engine and it changed injector constant from .1038 to .1162....am I on the right track?


Definitely.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

When I floor it at low rpm, say less than 2500 Maestro does not allow 100% TB opening. Only like 12% . When it allows 100% I get a judder in the acceleration as I can find on my dynosheet. Any ways to force Maestro to allow 100% TB opening when I want it, even low rpm?


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

I have that same stupid issue....


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

There's a throttle limiter map that some vvt files have but not the others.

I'll find the correct Bosch map so someone can email tapp


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> There's a throttle limiter map that some vvt files have but not the others.
> 
> I'll find the correct Bosch map so someone can email tapp


If you find it I'd gladly email Tapp :beer:


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## Lony (May 31, 2003)

sorry for not reading 177+ pages... already tried to contact eurodyne with no answer. Is there a list with supported engine codes and model years? I want to tune some 1.8t new beetles with BNU and AWU engines.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

KFWDKSMX - maximum throttle angle.


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## dannybarone (Oct 16, 2006)

Quick question not sure how stupid it is but how do you tell what your injector duty cycle is ?


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## Silver TT (Jan 26, 2015)

Hopefully someone can help me out here: I did a wideband swap on my 02 TT AMU, the fuel trims were adapting before I flashed the ECU with stage 1 for the BEA. Then I was getting a P-code is 0012 – Camshaft A – Advanced setpoint not reached (over retarded), so I turned off the fault code (I also used a resistor for the VVT). I also changed a few settings to deal with the EGT sensor (P1435- EGT sensor; open or short to plus). It's not giving any fault codes anymore.

I'm looking at the values in block 32, I hope this is correct? Any ideas why the fuel trims aren't changing?? How do I check to see if the O2 sensor is working?
Thanks!


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

block 99 in measuring block will tell you if the O2 sensor is working and how much it is triming the fuel.
if you have problems with the resistor in the VVT plug, plug it into a high impedance injector, satisfies the circuit. as far as the setpoint advance error from not having a VVT, the cam position sensor is looking for the cam timing to change when the VVT is active but you don't have one. Go to the cam timing map, down ther by idle map and 2 step. you will see a huge dip in the map over a large range, bring it up to match the rest of the map and this should prevent the trouble code from coming back.


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

First part is hypothetical

Can someone tell me if I was to transplant an ME7 computer into a non VW/Audi 4 cylinder and I wanted to tune this ME7 computer with Meastro, suppose there wasnt any base files period, where would I start? 



My understanding of VE is the Target Filling map is the main map that tells the ECU how much that cylinder can be filled with air. 
The Main Fuel Correction Map is the main fuel map that would be that bulk of the fuel.

Is this correct?


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## Silver TT (Jan 26, 2015)

Stroked1.8t said:


> block 99 in measuring block will tell you if the O2 sensor is working and how much it is triming the fuel.
> if you have problems with the resistor in the VVT plug, plug it into a high impedance injector, satisfies the circuit. as far as the setpoint advance error from not having a VVT, the cam position sensor is looking for the cam timing to change when the VVT is active but you don't have one. Go to the cam timing map, down ther by idle map and 2 step. you will see a huge dip in the map over a large range, bring it up to match the rest of the map and this should prevent the trouble code from coming back.


I changed the map, that fixed it. Thanks!


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

Silver TT said:


> I changed the map, that fixed it. Thanks!


No problem man, like to help with things I know. I need help with understanding how this thing fuels. Being an ex Motec owner, meastro doesn't make sense. Can someone break down the priority of the fuel maps.
I downloaded the stage 1 map for my 04 a4, map is for a 1.8L obviously, I have a 2L. I changed the injector constant with injector wizard. Fueling sucked. Changed the power enrichment map that should be titled target lambda 1. Now fuel doesn't suck, it fuels to much according to lambda correction. Also changed the full load lambda map and fuel is great up top but lambda correction is pulling and pushing fuel. Nothing makes sense.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

So I still can't get my idle sorted...

I can give my car the tiniest amount of throttle and have it "idling" beautifully at 900rpm, O2 correction is steady, timing stays right at 20 degrees, load at about 20 and tps at 2%

But if I take my foot off the gas, tps, timing, O2 correction, load are all over the place. 

Here are the values im getting

Tps between .76 and 5%
Load between 15 and 30
Timing between -5 and 30
O2 correction between -9 and 0
Lambda between .85 and 1

I tried raising and lowering idle torque by 25 in quick tune, adding timing to the pump gas timing map, raising minimum timing and I don't even remember what else. I have pressur tested up to 40 psi and my intake is leak free, there are no exhaust leaks to be found. 

Someone steer me in the right direction please!!


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Poody said:


> So I still can't get my idle sorted...
> 
> I can give my car the tiniest amount of throttle and have it "idling" beautifully at 900rpm, O2 correction is steady, timing stays right at 20 degrees, load at about 20 and tps at 2%
> 
> ...


Dial in the injectors, then dial in the MAF. Start with a fresh file


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

This is probably the 20th time in 2 years I have restarted with a fresh file. Injectors are dialed in. Without the MAF plugged in I get negligible corrections cruising and a max of -5% correction under WOT depending on the day. I feel safe with that value because i would rather be a little rich than a little lean. Adding the MAF sensor, corrections are slightly more negative @ cruise and ramp to +10% WOT. I have been rescaling my MAF curve to remedy this and it's getting close, but idle is still far far off. I just can't understand why the ecu wants to request less than 1 lambda at idle. It doesn't happen if I start the car and let O2 corrections kick on, but any time I come off decel and clutch in/throw it in neutral it will request .78 lambda for a good 20 seconds or so or until I put additional load on the engine. 

Just seems odd that I'm getting such low lambda requests and terrible idle quality on an otherwise good tune...

I have all the fuel correction maps to 1.0001 and increased idle timing up to ~40 degrees other than that and fine tuning BVC and injector constant, the file is just a stock TB 1000cc tune.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Poody said:


> This is probably the 20th time in 2 years I have restarted with a fresh file. Injectors are dialed in. Without the MAF plugged in I get negligible corrections cruising and a max of -5% correction under WOT depending on the day. I feel safe with that value because i would rather be a little rich than a little lean. Adding the MAF sensor, corrections are slightly more negative @ cruise and ramp to +10% WOT. I have been rescaling my MAF curve to remedy this and it's getting close, but idle is still far far off. I just can't understand why the ecu wants to request less than 1 lambda at idle. It doesn't happen if I start the car and let O2 corrections kick on, but any time I come off decel and clutch in/throw it in neutral it will request .78 lambda for a good 20 seconds or so or until I put additional load on the engine.
> 
> Just seems odd that I'm getting such low lambda requests and terrible idle quality on an otherwise good tune...
> 
> I have all the fuel correction maps to 1.0001 and increased idle timing up to ~40 degrees other than that and fine tuning BVC and injector constant, the file is just a stock TB 1000cc tune.


The rich request as it returns to idle is normal, Ive seen that a million times but within a few seconds it will stabilize and go back to requesting 1.0 lambda.

You also have to adjust MAF offset when adjusting the scaling on the MAF, but I suspect that when scaling is unequal it might require a little fiddling to get it just right.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Dave926 said:


> The rich request as it returns to idle is normal, Ive seen that a million times but within a few seconds it will stabilize and go back to requesting 1.0 lambda.
> 
> You also have to adjust MAF offset when adjusting the scaling on the MAF, but I suspect that when scaling is unequal it might require a little fiddling to get it just right.


Good to know that the rich requested lambda is normal. Didn't know that the offset needed tweaking along with the scalars but it makes sense now that you say it. I'm assuming that decreasing the low end off the scale requires an increase in offset? I'll go give that a shot and see if it helps any

Thanks Dave


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Well, just updating my post to let everyone here know that I got a lot of my issues sorted this week. I started reading about fake 044 fuel pumps a month or so ago and have been thinking more and more that I had a fake one on my car. Free flow on the fake pumps is comparable to a real 044, but under pressure, pump flow drops severely as expected from a knock off pump. I pulled mine and confirmed that it is in fact a fake pump and not a genuine Bosch unit. :banghead:

I ordered a new pump and confirmed it was real before installing this morning. Idle quality has improved a ton, calculated injector set up specs are nearly spot on, and I'm not leaning out under 15+ psi like I was a year ago. Have yet to crank the boost past MAP limit but I'll assume things will be good there for now. 

Lesson learned: Watch out for these fake 044 pumps. They are getting more and more convincing.... 

Only question I have now is: how does our ecu calculate load for WOT fueling? Will a MAF signal input allow for proper load calculations above the MAP limit, or do I need to fudge the injector constant and pull fuel below the MAP limit through main fuel/injection correction maps?


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## dannybarone (Oct 16, 2006)

So I have never had a problem connecting to my cable before but yesterday I cannot connect to the car. The flash program won't pick up the cable and even in the editor program when you select a new base file it won't connect. When I plug it in the green light does light up also. 

Has anyone actually had the power tap itself fail on them or maybe just a cord?


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Ok. BT build was done about 1yr ago. And tuned and running spot on. Car ran great but decided to do a built head with IE cams. All the valve spring goodies. New valves. IE cam gear and a 034 Intake manifold. 

Need to know what I should change in my tune to accommodate the intake and new cams. I went with the middle option not the race only ones. Also gonna bump rec limiter to 8k


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

WiKKiDTT said:


> Ok. BT build was done about 1yr ago. And tuned and running spot on. Car ran great but decided to do a built head with IE cams. All the valve spring goodies. New valves. IE cam gear and a 034 Intake manifold.
> 
> Need to know what I should change in my tune to accommodate the intake and new cams. I went with the middle option not the race only ones. Also gonna bump rec limiter to 8k
> 
> ...


A lot.

Enough to consider a full retune


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> A lot.
> 
> Enough to consider a full retune


Should I keep my file and start from there? Or you a fresh file? 


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Fresh file, youve changed the engines VE so much that a lot will no longer work "right"


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## needlessthing (Oct 28, 2005)

*have a quick possible dumb question...*

took out all my sai and evap stuff a while back but now trying to pass inspection. All codes are go minus the sai improper flow code. is there a way to shut that off in maestro to pass inspection? SAI diag options are all off but guessing it is detected by the O2. and that is what throws the code. Any help would be great. thanks ahead of time.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

needlessthing said:


> took out all my sai and evap stuff a while back but now trying to pass inspection. All codes are go minus the sai improper flow code. is there a way to shut that off in maestro to pass inspection? SAI diag options are all off but guessing it is detected by the O2. and that is what throws the code. Any help would be great. thanks ahead of time.


Read something on this once. I don't think you can mess with the flow in maestro. I know a skilled tuner would be able to find requested flow and turn it to 0. So your requested and actual match. But again, not in maestro. 

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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

Ive passed readiness for our inspection several times with maestro and no SAI. you can turn the sensor off in Diagnostics or go to the "fault code" tab/section.

Just helped with my VSS code:thumbup:


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Finally decided to start on building an intake to be mafless... Anyone have suggestions on a bov? 

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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

Tial is what everyone usually uses. 

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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

euroguy666 said:


> Finally decided to start on building an intake to be mafless... Anyone have suggestions on a bov?
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Tial or turbosmart


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

Is there any Maestro update to take care of the "clutch switch issue"?
Mine is "dead" in Maestro only and I have troubles with CC and coming to a stop.
I wonder what is other peoples workarounds!


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

rogerius said:


> Is there any Maestro update to take care of the "clutch switch issue"?
> Mine is "dead" in Maestro only and I have troubles with CC and coming to a stop.
> I wonder what is other peoples workarounds!


Not sure if there is a workaround, but for some reason the clutch switch doesn't disengage CC on the VVT files. Works like normal on the non-VVT files.


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

Poody said:


> Not sure if there is a workaround, but for some reason the clutch switch doesn't disengage CC on the VVT files. Works like normal on the non-VVT files.


What would be the disadvantage if I flash a non-VVT file on a VVT car? What features are lost? Part throttle will suffer?


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Tial or turbosmart


Tial 50mm it is! 

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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

What needs to be included when selling/ swapping maestro to another car?

Do I have to include the ECU (obviously), cluster, and key? Or can I just give him access to my account, the ecu and maestro cable?


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

You can give access and switch the email over and such.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Anyone have the issue where you have to reflash the car to get it to start? I thought I read something on here about it before. Searched and nothing came up

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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

euroguy666 said:


> Anyone have the issue where you have to reflash the car to get it to start? I thought I read something on here about it before. Searched and nothing came up
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


I have... It's related to the 2 step and no lift shift. I've had some cars where they simply would not start or idle like complete garbage. Completely undriveable. Idle @ 1000rpms and 6ms of injection on time with an AFR of 10:1 (as rich as the gauge would show). This was on the Gen 2 VVT active files. Once they turned 2-step, off it never happened again.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I have... It's related to the 2 step and no lift shift. I've had some cars where they simply would not start or idle like complete garbage. Completely undriveable. Idle @ 1000rpms and 6ms of injection on time with an AFR of 10:1 (as rich as the gauge would show). This was on the Gen 2 VVT active files. Once they turned 2-step, off it never happened again.


Thank you sir. That did the trick. Anyone know why? Eurodyne need to fix this bug?

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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I think it is the file. The gen 2 files can be started without pushing in the clutch. Also they have the cruise control issue where rpms go to redline if you don't cancel the cruise with the stalk or brake...


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> Fresh file, youve changed the engines VE so much that a lot will no longer work "right"


Wanna make some money and help me get this thing tuned? One of the main people who helped me tune it no longer lives by me and can assist. I'm decent at it but some things I'm not able to do. Also what's your location. Maybe I'll fly you to me to tune the car and pay you for your time?


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Vegeta Gti said:


> You can give access and switch the email over and such.


What do you mean by switching the email?


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## NaSMK4 (Dec 12, 2011)

So guys my car makes around 397whp at 26psi I am curious if I was to upload my maestro file somehow for people to look it over im curious if I could get some pointers on what to tweak to perhaps make a little more power safely if there is no leeway for safety then obviously I don't want to tweak it but I am sure my motor can handle around 500whp.... after all the modifications I have done.

IE Springs
Supertech SS Valves Exhaust & Intake
Cat's Cams 3651's intake and exhaust
Pauter Rods
Fluidampr
Gates Racing Timing belt with IE Manual Tensioner kit

I could go on about various things done to the motor but thats pretty much the important stuff.

I have a Pag Parts Gt3071R-Ball Bearing Billet Wheel V2 Upgraded Turbo kit and Tial BOV and turbosmart comp40 waste gate

I daily the car around 22-24Psi depending on the weather when its hot out its around 23 when its cool out i see around 24 sometimes 25 if its really cold. I live in FL so it gets hot.

Perhaps I wont follow through on this but i figured it was worth asking some questions seeing as I have maestro and I have yet to fiddle with it at all.


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

NaSMK4 said:


> So guys my car makes around 397whp at 26psi I am curious if I was to upload my maestro file somehow for people to look it over im curious if I could get some pointers on what to tweak to perhaps make a little more power safely if there is no leeway for safety then obviously I don't want to tweak it but I am sure my motor can handle around 500whp.... after all the modifications I have done.
> 
> IE Springs
> Supertech SS Valves Exhaust & Intake
> ...


If you're near SFL you should go see Luis Rivera at LTMotorsports in Miami. He tuned my 2.0L stroker on a 5857 using e85. We made 372whp at 10psi, 510whp at 15psi and 525-528whp at 22psi running out of fuel. With my twin pump surge tank and new 1700cc injectors we should see over 600whp at 30 psi. Trying to max out my setup. Hope to hit 700 whp lol

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

NaSMK4 said:


> So guys my car makes around 397whp at 26psi I am curious if I was to upload my maestro file somehow for people to look it over im curious if I could get some pointers on what to tweak to perhaps make a little more power safely if there is no leeway for safety then obviously I don't want to tweak it but I am sure my motor can handle around 500whp.... after all the modifications I have done.
> 
> IE Springs
> Supertech SS Valves Exhaust & Intake
> ...


Post a log via google drive.

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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Still having cold start issues. Brought the car to a tuner and he "fixed" my surging idle. But the car was warm already. When it's cold, the car just bogs down and shuts off. I gotta hold the gas at 2k rpm until the coolant warms up a bit. What map can I take a look at? 

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

euroguy666 said:


> Still having cold start issues. Brought the car to a tuner and he "fixed" my surging idle. But the car was warm already. When it's cold, the car just bogs down and shuts off. I gotta hold the gas at 2k rpm until the coolant warms up a bit. What map can I take a look at?
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


If its pump gas then you shouldn't have to touch anything

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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Yeah it is. Not sure what map he messed with. It had a surging idle from day one. Checked for leaks with the smoke machine a billion times

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

euroguy666 said:


> Yeah it is. Not sure what map he messed with. It had a surging idle from day one. Checked for leaks with the smoke machine a billion times
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Anything less than a pressure test isn't going to cut it

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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

Pressure test for boost leak. Exhaust leak can mess with idle also as the ecu will be adding and removing fuel all the time.

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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

schwartzmagic said:


> Pressure test for boost leak. Exhaust leak can mess with idle also as the ecu will be adding and removing fuel all the time.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


I guess I'll give that a go then

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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

Every time i go to change my 2step rev limit, i get an error in the "searching" portion of the flash. It says error, unable to write ecu. Reflashed a tune and unhooked car battery.


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

All files I find on Eurodyne are for 1.8t. What does someone do that has a 20/20? I would think that the target filling map should be different because the engine is bigger, but im not that familiar with it. 
Another thing, when Im between 4000 and 5500 rpm I have no timing. 2 degrees at best, no timing is being pulled from knock. I have changed some timing maps to try and fix this, but no success.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Stroked1.8t said:


> All files I find on Eurodyne are for 1.8t. What does someone do that has a 20/20? I would think that the target filling map should be different because the engine is bigger, but im not that familiar with it.
> Another thing, when Im between 4000 and 5500 rpm I have no timing. 2 degrees at best, no timing is being pulled from knock. I have changed some timing maps to try and fix this, but no success.


Use the injector wizard and it'll ask you cc of your motor

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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

1. I noticed from the logs that the lambda regulation becomes active usually after coolant temp reaches 40degC. Is there a way in Maestro to anticipate the lambda regulation? To make it start sooner, like after coolant reaches, say, 30degC? Has it anything to do with warmup?

2. is it possible to tune the warmup fuelling? I would like it a little leaner after startup? Can it be done in Maestro and how?


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## needlessthing (Oct 28, 2005)

*Still a noob at this tuning thing.*

awp 1.8t stock injectors at 4bar. tt maf and Integrated engineering intake manifold. Stock TB. Autotech Intake cam.

Having couple issues. Car idles fine and runs perfect at part throttle and cruising around. Unfortunely as soon as I hit WOT...I lean out. 15.5 -16.1

I assume that my alpha N is not set up right for my intake manifold. So I did a nice long data log...when tracing log for 02 correction on alpha n...you use average right? and repeat this step over and over till there are very few changes?

also what maps do I start to change to correct my WOT afr?

Sorry in advance for noob question..but it is really hard to find out info for maestro and how to...when most of the info is in a hand full of threads that are 200+ pages long..and mostly people that know what they are doing brain storming ideas. Would be awesome if someone would compile all the info in a structured wiki. Thank ahead of time for any help.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Stroked1.8t said:


> All files I find on Eurodyne are for 1.8t. What does someone do that has a 20/20? I would think that the target filling map should be different because the engine is bigger, but im not that familiar with it.
> Another thing, when Im between 4000 and 5500 rpm I have no timing. 2 degrees at best, no timing is being pulled from knock. I have changed some timing maps to try and fix this, but no success.


Which timing maps are you changing?


euroguy666 said:


> Use the injector wizard and it'll ask you cc of your motor
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk





rogerius said:


> 1. I noticed from the logs that the lambda regulation becomes active usually after coolant temp reaches 40degC. Is there a way in Maestro to anticipate the lambda regulation? To make it start sooner, like after coolant reaches, say, 30degC? Has it anything to do with warmup?
> 
> 2. is it possible to tune the warmup fuelling? I would like it a little leaner after startup? Can it be done in Maestro and how?


Lambda regulation turns on 30s after starting


needlessthing said:


> awp 1.8t stock injectors at 4bar. tt maf and Integrated engineering intake manifold. Stock TB. Autotech Intake cam.
> 
> Having couple issues. Car idles fine and runs perfect at part throttle and cruising around. Unfortunely as soon as I hit WOT...I lean out. 15.5 -16.1
> 
> ...


Intake manifold has nothing to do with that.

Post a log

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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

I changed all of them individually, specifically the high load columns and I still got very low advance


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## needlessthing (Oct 28, 2005)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wpdt2zk4a2l2ljq/2015_7_7-14.41.42.DataLog.csv?dl=0

here is a link to log I took yesterday. It was a drive around town. Got on it alittle but not to much cause the leaning out issue. Didn't want to damage anything.

Also I figured the intake manifold wasn't the major issue with the WOT leaning out. But still curious how to tune for it. Everything I have been able to find says to start with the Maf Scaling and alpha N maps. Just not sure if when tracing with o2 correction you apply recent or average numbers...Thanks for your help Dave926 I am a bit clueless here and just trying to learn. Its a lot to take in.


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## needlessthing (Oct 28, 2005)

looking at the log some more...it really seems like my requested lambda never changes when I step on the throttle... when I let off the throttle the requested changes to lean it out. But stepping on the throttle it just sits at 1 and never changes to open loop and switches maps.. so the ecu I guess is trying to maintain a constant lambda of 1 through the RPMs. My EGT threshold is at 399.something. So I don't think that is it...so confused...


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

Well change the full load lambda map to get the afr you want, then log o2 correction and adjust injector correction to get it closer to zero o2 correction


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## needlessthing (Oct 28, 2005)

Stroked1.8t said:


> Well change the full load lambda map to get the afr you want, then log o2 correction and adjust injector correction to get it closer to zero o2 correction


full load lambda map looks fine...the problem it seems is the ecu is not switching to that map under WOT. (going to open loop) which is really strange. It seems my LTFT are sitting at 0 also..what would cause the ECU to not switch maps under WOT?


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

Couldn't tell you why it wouldn't switch, but if I would richen up either the power enrichment map first to see if you can get it off 1 lambda. If that doesn't work, put it back and adjust the full load lambda to get it off 1 lambda.


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## needlessthing (Oct 28, 2005)

turns out the maf was scaled wrong...and it seems the ecu uses the maf to calculate laod...so it was never registering high enough load to switch maps at WOT. thank you for the input though.


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

Hope do you determine maf is scaled wrong?


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

Can someone help me with my idle? Built 20/20, 260/260 cams, AEB head, stock everything else.


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

Timing is swinging from -9 to 22 while sitting at an idle.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

That's somewhat normal with larger cams as the ecu will use ignition timing to control target idle speed.


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

I can't live with this. These cams aren't very aggressive, can anything be done?


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

*Warmup Fuel Correction*

1. Warmup Fuel Correction:
-Anyone.... u r kindly requested to post a pic with ur Warmup Fuel Correction map (PM if possible). I don't have the hardware but I need to understand what/how to request the tuner to lean it up a little during warmup. I want to know in advance how this map looks for people that don't face any problems with their fueling during warm up.

2. After Start Enrichment:
-how does it work? When is it needed? Can I see a pic of this map, also? (PM if possible)

TIA!


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

Can someone tell me how the how the ecu can swing timing from -9 to 22 at idle to maintain a steady idle when there isn't a number that low in any of the timing maps?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

needlessthing said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wpdt2zk4a2l2ljq/2015_7_7-14.41.42.DataLog.csv?dl=0
> 
> here is a link to log I took yesterday. It was a drive around town. Got on it alittle but not to much cause the leaning out issue. Didn't want to damage anything.
> 
> Also I figured the intake manifold wasn't the major issue with the WOT leaning out. But still curious how to tune for it. Everything I have been able to find says to start with the Maf Scaling and alpha N maps. Just not sure if when tracing with o2 correction you apply recent or average numbers...Thanks for your help Dave926 I am a bit clueless here and just trying to learn. Its a lot to take in.


Can you post a shorter WOT log? Like just the pull itself?

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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Stroked1.8t said:


> Can someone tell me how the how the ecu can swing timing from -9 to 22 at idle to maintain a steady idle when there isn't a number that low in any of the timing maps?


There are many timing maps. At idle the ECU uses the torque table and runs the appropriate ignition timing (and throttle plate opening) to achieve said torque. 

With that said its possible that if your idle is set to say 850rpms, but the map has axis values of 720 and the next is 1000rpms, it may be jumping between the two cells causing the fluctuation. I rescaled my torque axis table to where I idle and its helped with the timing swing.


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

That is the information I've been needing, thanks spartiati

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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

Is this the main torque table or the small idle torque table?

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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Stroked1.8t said:


> Is this the main torque table or the small idle torque table?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


I dont believe they work independently but mostly Idle torque


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

I have played with the idle torque map without good results. I zeroed the map to see how it would effect the idle, no change that I could hear/feel. 

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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

What I discovered is the torque at idle doesn't land on the idle torque map as the map only goes to load 10. Actual load is 25-26, adjusting the main torque table cleaned up the idle considerably, also adjusting the timing table for idle cleaned it up further. 

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## Geneqco (Apr 28, 2014)

*How to Enable O2 Regulation*

Hi, I'm new to Maestro and I'm hoping someone can help me!

My datalogs show no O2 correction is happening... I found the following quote at the start of this thread:

"Open measuring blocks, Basic Settings, Block 099 to disable lambda regulation."

I checked Block 99 and it indeed shows: "O2 Regulation OFF" and there doesn't seem to be a simple way to change this.

I have also searched the forum but couldn't find an answer.

The car is a 2000 S3 with APY code but now has an AWP ECU & AWP File and is also using the Unitronic "WIDEBAND ECU CONVERSION HARNESS FOR AUDI ®* TT ®*1.8L R4 / 5VT (TURBO)".

The tuners originally installed a BEA ECU & File but had problems re-flashing it after 16 reflashes so they swapped this one in.

Unfortunately, they only ever did one datalog (which was actually with the BEA ECU) and at that time the correction was on and the log show the correction figures.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Just upgraded to win 10 on my PC and maestro no longer works. Anybody else with this problem?


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## NaSMK4 (Dec 12, 2011)

Gulfstream said:


> Just upgraded to win 10 on my PC and maestro no longer works. Anybody else with this problem?


u should do this:

1- Open Control Panel
2- Open Programs and Features
3- Click "Turn Windows features on or off"
4- Make sure the box's for .Net Framework 3.5 (includes .NET 2.0 and 3.0) are checked expand the folder and check off box's for Windows communication foundation HTTP Activation and Windows Communication Foundation Non-HTTP Activation and then expand folder for .Net Framework 4.5 Advanced Services should be right after the above mentioned stuff... Check off ASP.NET 4.5 then click OK and close out of that stuff.

NOW on each of your eurodyne maestro ICONS right click then click properties

Go to the Compatibility Tab Click the box that says Run this program in compatibility mode: then use the drop down menu choose windows 7 or which ever windows version u last had it working in. click apply and okay do this for each icon for maestro then give it a shot. Should work.


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*3 bar or 4 bar MAP*

Just curious: has someone put together a Maestro file for running 3 bar or 4 bar MAP sensor (for full N75 control beyond 22 psi limit of the stock 2.5 bar sensor)?


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

vtraudt said:


> Just curious: has someone put together a Maestro file for running 3 bar or 4 bar MAP sensor (for full N75 control beyond 22 psi limit of the stock 2.5 bar sensor)?


I think I talked about it like a year ago. I was told to email Tapp about it. I believe that he'd have to scale the map and change a few things on his end. I believe he's done it for a few users 

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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

euroguy666 said:


> I think I talked about it like a year ago. I was told to email Tapp about it. I believe that he'd have to scale the map and change a few things on his end. I believe he's done it for a few users
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


What are common methods to circumvent the 22 psi stock MAP limit?
I heard Unitronics is running fixed duty cycle on the N75 to fake boost control?
MBC?
EBC?
Running of wastegate spring?
Other ghetto solutions?


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

vtraudt said:


> What are common methods to circumvent the 22 psi stock MAP limit?
> I heard Unitronics is running fixed duty cycle on the N75 to fake boost control?
> MBC?
> EBC?
> ...


Dave could tell you more about that. I know you scale the fuel maps higher at the end to account for higher loads. I do not remember exactly what he told me to do. It's been a year lol. He'll see this and chime in sooner or later

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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

vtraudt said:


> What are common methods to circumvent the 22 psi stock MAP limit?


If all you're trying to do is force boost above the sensor limit, and your turbo is capable of that much output, you adjust upwards the values in the boost duty table. All of them, across all columns. This way the PID control system's output values correlate to a raised value in the duty table. A value of 95 in any active cel in the Boost Duty (lookup) table will result in 95% wastegate duty. If you carry that 95 value in every cel on that row, no matter what the PID output, the Duty table will force 95% duty through that row's rev range.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> If all you're trying to do is force boost above the sensor limit, and your turbo is capable of that much output, you adjust upwards the values in the boost duty table. All of them, across all columns. This way the PID control system's output values correlate to a raised value in the duty table. A value of 95 in any active cel in the Boost Duty (lookup) table will result in 95% wastegate duty. If you carry that 95 value in every cel on that row, no matter what the PID output, the Duty table will force 95% duty through that row's rev range.


I think he means he wants fueling to support the boost levels. I think. Not sure lol

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> If all you're trying to do is force boost above the sensor limit, and your turbo is capable of that much output, you adjust upwards the values in the boost duty table. All of them, across all columns. This way the PID control system's output values correlate to a raised value in the duty table. A value of 95 in any active cel in the Boost Duty (lookup) table will result in 95% wastegate duty. If you carry that 95 value in every cel on that row, no matter what the PID output, the Duty table will force 95% duty through that row's rev range.


Issue with that it's variable boost control at that point, as the ecu is no longer targeting a specific P/R and just locking at whatever duty cycle it's set at.

And from my experience, if the PID column values match actual, N75 duty cycle will drop regardless of what's going on.

That being said it's just easier to run either an electronic boost controller or an MBC if your looking to run above MAP limit.


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> If all you're trying to do is force boost above the sensor limit, and your turbo is capable of that much output, you adjust upwards the values in the boost duty table. All of them, across all columns. This way the PID control system's output values correlate to a raised value in the duty table. A value of 95 in any active cel in the Boost Duty (lookup) table will result in 95% wastegate duty. If you carry that 95 value in every cel on that row, no matter what the PID output, the Duty table will force 95% duty through that row's rev range.


Dough, that is what I call 'faking' it by running fixed N75 duty cycle. By definition, this is NOT considered 'controlling' boost, and just as ghetto as running MBC or running off the wastegate spring. 

True control by definition requires a) a boost pressure input (accurate) so that b) a corresponding response (control) can be issued. 

Maybe a 'voltage splitter' to hack the 0-5V MAP output of the stock (2.5 bar) MAP into a different value, then change all maps where that voltage is used accordingly?

Or write the correct software for 3 bar (or 4 bar). Just not sure if someone has done it for the B6 1.8T. I run it on my 2.7T (paid UK guy back then) with (IIRC 4 or 5 bar MAP sensor, measuring correct values and full boost control (N75)).


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

vtraudt said:


> Dough, that is what I call 'faking' it by running fixed N75 duty cycle. By definition, this is NOT considered 'controlling' boost, and just as ghetto as running MBC or running off the wastegate spring.


I'm not sure I'd call any of those three approaches "ghetto". But lacking the 3bar capabilities of more modern cars such as the Golf R, "forced" boost duty values are all you have -- or ever will have -- with Maestro. Asking Eurodyne to develop something on these ECUs isn't going to happen. Take this from a dealer who has a lot to gain from such an upgrade.

If you're looking for PID-based control at boost levels above the car hardware's limits, I recommend looking into this product:










The Torqbye CM5 is derived from Eurodyne's discontinued BoostManager. It will deliver what you want -- plus a solid suite of extra features.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

It's ghetto due to the fact that boost control accuracy will be the equivalent to using vise-grips

I guarantee your only going to meet whatever the target boost is in one gear

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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

vtraudt said:


> What are common methods to circumvent the 22 psi stock MAP limit?





euroguy666 said:


> I know you scale the fuel maps higher at the end to account for higher loads. I do not remember exactly what he told me to do. It's been a year lol.



Speaking of tuning above the MAP sensor's gamut, I thought Id post some interesting graphs that document another dynamic of Maestro-based tuning at this level. Because along with being "blind" to actual boost the ECU is also ignoring mass airflow readings. So even when you are tuning with a MAF sensor accurately calibrated, the ECU can stray way off course for appropriate fueling. Here is the experimentation we did.

Running our new, larger F25L turbo on a wide-band B6-series A4, we fitted a large 3" inside dimension MAF housing from the R32 motors. After scaling the Flowmeter settings for accuracy we started tuning. And what we discovered was the ECU wasn't firing the fuel injectors long enough. Fueling corrections were pegged at the maximum but still the injectors' times were too short. The fuel mixtures were falling lean as a result. This struck me as odd, because the airflow values were accurate. Why then wasn't the ECU coming even close with its injector on-times? As a test I decided to bump the scaling on the Flowmeter map. Perhaps if the ECU saw more airflows it would fall into line. Here are the before/after airflows the ECU registered:











Clearly the airflow values are dovetailing, just as they should after "over-scaling" the Flowmeter map. And here are some other before/after values...

requested Lambdas are unchanged: 











but, interestingly, so are the O2 correction values:











The ECU completely ignored the re-calibrated mass airflow values. It's still having to correct the fueling like mad. But after it gets pegged at the maximum it again can't increase the injection times. As a result, actual Lambdas were still going lean:










…and the injectors were still firing at the same timings:











16 millisecond timings at 5500 rpms are hardly the most the ECU can ask of the fueling. But with fueling corrections already at their maximum there is no way for the ECU to go any further. Not without examining the mapping outside of the Flowmeter.

And that brings us to the same torque maps that MAFless tuners rely on so heavily. So even when running a MAF sensor, Maestro's "Component Protection" regimes force a kind of open loop for the flowmeter channel. The values get ignored. And with boost pressures unknown by the ECU it really has not idea of how much air is actually getting into the cylinders. That's what makes it so important that the Optimum Engine Torque and (its inverse cousin) the Target Filling maps are accurately calibrated for your specific setup.

Thx


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

Someone please write a book covering all bases on meastro, I will buy it!

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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Stroked1.8t said:


> Someone please write a book covering all bases on meastro, I will buy it!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


I know right!


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Yeah, it would be great if someone with detailed knowledge of eurodyne could make a clear instructional step by step manual. I'm sure peeps would pay for it. I would!


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## BradMk4 (Mar 1, 2014)

Just installed a new 4bar fpr in my 1.8t awp replacing my 3 bar and flashed stage 2. Now the car starts up okay but then idle settles at 1100 and its sputtering/misfiring. Any ideas on what it could be? Vacuum is acting wierd bouncing from 8-11inhg when its usually at 19in hg. I have 2.0t coils with pfr7b plugs gapped at .040. Car ran great with the stage 1 flash and 3 bar fpr. Checked for any visual crack on vacuum hose leading to fpr and replaced fuel filter. Any input is appreciated :thumbup:


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Was the tune written for a 4 bar FPR?

If not then it's probably your injector calibration values. Make sure to edit both BVC and injector constant. Increasing rail pressure will increase injector dead time, so make sure to scale your BVC curve accordingly. Scaling factors for this will vary based on the injector used. Injector constant can be recalculated for the new rail pressure by using the injector wizard


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## BradMk4 (Mar 1, 2014)

Poody said:


> Was the tune written for a 4 bar FPR?
> 
> If not then it's probably your injector calibration values. Make sure to edit both BVC and injector constant. Increasing rail pressure will increase injector dead time, so make sure to scale your BVC curve accordingly. Scaling factors for this will vary based on the injector used. Injector constant can be recalculated for the new rail pressure by using the injector wizard


Yes in maestro it says Stage2 4 bar fpr should i still go into injector wizard and try that??

Car is stock turbo, stock injectors, 4bar FPR, 3 inch TB, And as stated before 2.0t coils with pfr7b plugs with a .040 gap currently


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## BradMk4 (Mar 1, 2014)

I noticed on eurodynes website that it says stage 2 only requires an upgraded downpipe and converter. In maestro it says 4bar after stage 2. Can anyone confirm what it actually requires?


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## BradMk4 (Mar 1, 2014)

BradMk4 said:


> I noticed on eurodynes website that it says stage 2 only requires an upgraded downpipe and converter. In maestro it says 4bar after stage 2. Can anyone confirm what it actually requires?


Edit: Runs fine now after i flashed back to stock then flashed the stage 2 file again. :screwy: Guess sometimes when it says success its lying


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Need some advice. My car runs like complete **** while its warming up. I actually have to hold the throttle for a few mins til it warms up. If I let off the gas it'll stumble and stall... The only way around it is to leave the key in the on position to let the o2 sensor warm up for a few mins then start it and then it'll run fine. Warm up fueling? Not sure. That map was never touched. Could my o2 sensor be on its way out? There's no code or anything. Car is a stroked 1.8t with a 3071r

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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Injectors? fpr? tb? maf or mafless? nb or wb? Turbo size is unless info and has no bearing on out-of-boost warm-up fueling. Please give relevant info.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

elRey said:


> Injectors? fpr? maf or mafless? Turbo size is unless info and has no bearing on out-of-boost warm-up fueling. Please give relevant info.


My bad. Mafless stock fpr 1000cc Bosch.

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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

euroguy666 said:


> My bad. Mafless stock fpr 1000cc Bosch.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk




Tb? nb or wb? some 1.8t's came with 4bar fpr.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

elRey said:


> Tb? nb or wb? some 1.8t's came with 4bar fpr.


Stock tb wb converted. Stock 3bar. The car didn't always run like this. It had a bunch idle and a tuner "fixed" it... Not sure what he changed and I can get a hold of him

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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Anyone in socal wants to get tuned. My shop does pro tuning for most stand alone's and cobb, etc.


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## StateSideS3 (Apr 13, 2007)

Quick question relating to 2 step/launch control through maestro

Has anyone encountered any issues once enabling this feature?

We had enabled it on my car and then within about 24 hours, dont know exact amount of key cycles, the car when running stalled out and then when restarted would have basically no throttle response and a bouncing idle as if the car was stuck in 2 step around 900rpm
We re flashed the ecu, car ran fine, then again within 24 hours time the same thing happened, this time the car was already off and when I went to start it it did the same thing'

So then we disabled it and the car then ran fine after.

So I am confident to say enabling the 2 step/launch control is whats causing the problem

Just curious if anyone else has encountered this same issue


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Been happening for awhile. Tapp refuses responsibility

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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

My 2 step will not change after resetting it about 5 times at the strip. He says its cuz i have an older TT and i need to put my ecu in a newer jetta or maybe pull the cluster fuse. Seems like crap to me. Pulled battery for 24hrs. Flashed fresh tune. Will pull fuse next. sounds like the LC is just crap. I miss my wot box


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

Hey here's a page on fb.


https://m.facebook.com/groups/472223752954631/


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Alec's TT said:


> My 2 step will not change after resetting it about 5 times at the strip. He says its cuz i have an older TT and i need to put my ecu in a newer jetta or maybe pull the cluster fuse. Seems like crap to me. Pulled battery for 24hrs. Flashed fresh tune. Will pull fuse next. sounds like the LC is just crap. I miss my wot box


Lol so Tapp told u to get rid of the car and keep the ecu. Must be the car.... ****ing Tapp 


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

It is 100% the file. I've isolated those two step events to the Gen2 VVT files. I had one friend accidentally stall his car while in bumper to bumper traffic. Had to tow the car home. Since then I've just kept two step off on all the cars I help tune locally. It's just not worth the risk of getting stuck (unless you have the cable and laptop on hand to bail you out).


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

Right when I finally think about using 2step/LC! 

Steve, you should be allowed to own/run the maestro Thread:vampire: 

Hopefully in the upcoming months Ill have time to start tweaking my set up


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Thanks Greg. Appreciate the kind words. There are many users that are far more experienced and versed in maestro than myself. I help where I can.


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## StateSideS3 (Apr 13, 2007)

Its very frustrating since its a software option that many people look for and then cant use because its causing issues and Tapp refuses to try and do anything about it and blames other things. If it was a one or teo person occurance then maybe. 
But clearly its a known issue which should be addressed.


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## dane. (Nov 16, 2007)

StateSideS3 said:


> Quick question relating to 2 step/launch control through maestro
> 
> Has anyone encountered any issues once enabling this feature?
> 
> ...


Same thing happened on my tune, just muuuuch quicker than 24 hours. We flashed back to a non launch control enabled file and the problem magically disappeared.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

spartiati said:


> It is 100% the file. I've isolated those two step events to the Gen2 VVT files. I had one friend accidentally stall his car while in bumper to bumper traffic. Had to tow the car home. Since then I've just kept two step off on all the cars I help tune locally. It's just not worth the risk of getting stuck (unless you have the cable and laptop on hand to bail you out).


The non VVT files do it too.

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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> The non VVT files do it too.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk


Ever since it did it to my car and my buddies car on the vvt active files I never decided to activate it on my non vvt when I retuned my car. It's not worth getting stuck if I'm caught without my laptop.


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## NaSMK4 (Dec 12, 2011)

I'm just going to put it out there i have a 2003 1.8t awp and my ecu i have no idea what its from i bought it used and i dont even remember because i sold my original ecu but my 2 step is set to 4k i believe or so and I have never had any issues like the ones u guys are talking about with my maestro tune. just my 2 cents. duno why but marc at vap motorsports in ft myers tuned my car and set up the 2 step


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Anyone have a timing map I can take a peek at? Some one with water meth preferably. I got my fueling down steady at 11.8 AFR at 35psi out of my gtx3071. But did not hit the power level I should've at 30psi. I want to see where and how much timing people are adding.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

euroguy666 said:


> Anyone have a timing map I can take a peek at? Some one with water meth preferably. I got my fueling down steady at 11.8 AFR at 35psi out of my gtx3071. But did not hit the power level I should've at 30psi. I want to see where and how much timing people are adding.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


If you're not seeing timing pull you can add in some more timing until the knock sensor starts to pull and correct. Generally 6* of correction is the "acceptable" upper limit. The ECU can correct for a total of 12* so you leave yourself a little buffer to account for variables like temperature and gasoline quality.

Every engine would respond differently to a specific timing map. Even things like altitude and locally available gas plays a hlbig difference in the final timing table.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

spartiati said:


> If you're not seeing timing pull you can add in some more timing until the knock sensor starts to pull and correct. Generally 6* of correction is the "acceptable" upper limit. The ECU can correct for a total of 12* so you leave yourself a little buffer to account for variables like temperature and gasoline quality.
> 
> Every engine would respond differently to a specific timing map. Even things like altitude and locally available gas plays a hlbig difference in the final timing table.


Alright. I'll take a look at my last log I did. I believe I remember seeing some pull. But I believe the knock sensors are reading my noisy ass twin disc aswell. You think the timing tables from the base are a good shape and I should just apply a small % change to the whole map? Or just in high load areas? 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

euroguy666 said:


> Alright. I'll take a look at my last log I did. I believe I remember seeing some pull. But I believe the knock sensors are reading my noisy ass twin disc aswell. You think the timing tables from the base are a good shape and I should just apply a small % change to the whole map? Or just in high load areas?
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Don't just blindly add timing. Look at corresponding rpm vs load and then confirm how much timing pull you are getting at those areas. From there, you get an idea as to what You can add to the corresponding cell.


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## Zackk44 (Oct 21, 2012)

Car is a 2001 1.8t 5 speed fully built dynoed 434whp
Long story short I'm having issues with the timing map. Whatever I input on maestro for timing wise I go to flash the ecu then and it says sucess no issues with it writing. But when I start the car and do logs or whatever the timing I review in the logs vs. What my timing tables really are in maestro do not correspond. Also quick setting work until I try to set my 2 step up. I set it for 5000 rpm click switching active an then flash the ecu all it say is done. I start the car and 2 step then ingages at defualt (3500 rpm). The only issue I have found with the car is my clutch safety switch is bad (ive read in this thread that you can now start the car without the saftey switch in meastro) but I do not think or feel that should have an influence on why the timing map does no correspond with what the ecu is telling me. And finally the car will stall when I'm coming to a stop and push the clutch in. Timing at idle says 0 with ocational blips to 12,3,-3,8 and so forth but it is never steady at whatever it should be. Any advise or help would be appreciated. Also I'm not an idiot I build this car myself everything is right for valve timing and so forth. But I am an idiot with trouble shooting electrical issues


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Zackk44 said:


> Car is a 2001 1.8t 5 speed fully built dynoed 434whp
> Long story short I'm having issues with the timing map. Whatever I input on maestro for timing wise I go to flash the ecu then and it says sucess no issues with it writing. But when I start the car and do logs or whatever the timing I review in the logs vs. What my timing tables really are in maestro do not correspond. Also quick setting work until I try to set my 2 step up. I set it for 5000 rpm click switching active an then flash the ecu all it say is done. I start the car and 2 step then ingages at defualt (3500 rpm). The only issue I have found with the car is my clutch safety switch is bad (ive read in this thread that you can now start the car without the saftey switch in meastro) but I do not think or feel that should have an influence on why the timing map does no correspond with what the ecu is telling me. And finally the car will stall when I'm coming to a stop and push the clutch in. Timing at idle says 0 with ocational blips to 12,3,-3,8 and so forth but it is never steady at whatever it should be. Any advise or help would be appreciated. Also I'm not an idiot I build this car myself everything is right for valve timing and so forth. But I am an idiot with trouble shooting electrical issues


Ecu uses closed loop timing correction to maintain idle speed

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

StateSideS3 said:


> Quick question relating to 2 step/launch control through maestro
> 
> Has anyone encountered any issues once enabling this feature?
> 
> ...



I have also experienced this in the past. It was touch and go I really don't know what caused it.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

ECU does other timing correction inaddition to knock retard. Very rarely with logged timing be uncorrected values from timing map. ECU corrects for afr, engine and intake temps etc. 

Does timing rise or lower in general when you rise or lower your time map?


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## Zackk44 (Oct 21, 2012)

Right but for example my timing is 14 degrees on my map @188% load. But I'm logging 18-19 degrees @188% load so that to me doesn't make sense. I'd understand if it was hot out and the car was correcting 2 degrees for heat. Or whatever have you but its shouldnt be +4 degrees of timing
Also it almost seems like the timing is fixed in the ecu no matter what I do on my map. This to me is the minor issue thou I'm still within timing pull corrections I more so worried y the 2 step isn't working properly and my stalling problem. Tbh its like something is messed up with my ecu like in the ignition circuitry.


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

I have the stalling issue also when coming to a stop and pushing clutch in. It's really fuggin annoying sobif anyone knows of a solution please post.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## Zackk44 (Oct 21, 2012)

That's the same problem I'm having and its sucks its the biggest problem of my build and there should be no reason for it


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Logviewer and logger in maestro does not work on my laptop with win 10. I have sent a few emails to Tapp but he doesn't reply. Pretty ****ty customer service tbh....


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I'm running Windows 10 with no issues. 

Right click on the icon and ensure that 'Run as administrator' is selected 

Also select 'run in compatibility mode' and select Windows 7. 

Try that and see if it helps.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

I do run everything in compatability mode (win7) as administrator. Maestro and flash works but not the logger. Does your logger work? V3 and inside Maestro? 

Sent fra min SM-T900 via Tapatalk


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Gulfstream said:


> I do run everything in compatability mode (win7) as administrator. Maestro and flash works but not the logger. Does your logger work? V3 and inside Maestro?
> 
> Sent fra min SM-T900 via Tapatalk


It does. 

If that's the case you may need to install and enable .net framework to get it to work. 

Try this and report back. This should do it though:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh506443.aspx


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

I message grog and he said he would propose the new maestro forum and got no reply. 

So hear i am. My Launch control is stuck. Every time i try to adjust it, it times out in "searching"

I have tried:
Battery pull over night.
Fresh tune flash.
Update maestro.
All 3 flash speeds.
Pulled various fuses.

Called and he basically blamed my car because its an older TT. Has this happened to anyone else?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I personally do not recommend running launch control. I have had many instances where the car will start up and essentially be stuck in launch control at idle. Car runs super rich, backfires and stalls. Turning launch control off solves the issue. I haven't been able to pinpoint an exact car/ecu that causes it. I have isolated them mostly the vvt active files. This has been on multiple cars I've helped tune in the tristate area.


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## StateSideS3 (Apr 13, 2007)

Also happens with non vvt tunes as im no longer running vvt on my car but when FFE did the retune it ha
Poened when the launch control was enabled. So currently we have it disabled and its been running good. Just very annoying that its a feature we basically paid for but cant use.


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

Also if i were to post a few logs for everyone to take a quick glance at, what blocks would i log for it to be useful? I have a tune that runs really solid, i just feel like there is power left on the table! Or what should i look for as a start to tweaking my own tune?


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

I think the problem resides in the eeprom.

Please state whether your car's ECU is originally IMMO2 or 3 followed by whether 2 step works for you or not


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

StateSideS3 said:


> Also happens with non vvt tunes as im no longer running vvt on my car but when FFE did the retune it ha
> Poened when the launch control was enabled. So currently we have it disabled and its been running good. Just very annoying that its a feature we basically paid for but cant use.


I think I was at FFE when your car was there. Lol.

My car is immo 2 and the 2 step works. It's locked up twice on me.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

spartiati said:


> It does.
> 
> If that's the case you may need to install and enable .net framework to get it to work.
> 
> ...




Well, I installed framework 3.5 and deactivated 4.6 but same results.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Gulfstream said:


> Well, I installed framework 3.5 and deactivated 4.6 but same results.


Did you try to uninstall the program entirely and reinstall now that you have the framework set to the way it is?


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

spartiati said:


> Did you try to uninstall the program entirely and reinstall now that you have the framework set to the way it is?


I cannot uninstall framwork 4.6 because windows say 3.5 is dependent on it. I'll try to make a clean install of 3.5 and try again ic:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Sorry I meant to say uninstall and reinstall eurodyne programs.


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

[email protected] Performance said:


> I think the problem resides in the eeprom.
> 
> Please state whether your car's ECU is originally IMMO2 or 3 followed by whether 2 step works for you or not


I beleive its an immo 3 ecu. It was an aww motor. And yes 2 step works, i just cant adjust it or anything in the quick settings for that matter


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

spartiati said:


> Sorry I meant to say uninstall and reinstall eurodyne programs.


Yeah, done that a few times with no change.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Alec's TT said:


> I beleive its an immo 3 ecu. It was an aww motor. And yes 2 step works, i just cant adjust it or anything in the quick settings for that matter


Try pulling fuse 11 and reading codes before trying to adjust it and report back


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

I could read codes before pulling the fuse, no communications after.

Edit: I added can bus high and low between my ecu and cluster as they are both out of newer cars and i was able to adjust LC before it stopped being able to write. It just stopped working at the drag strip.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Connect after pulling the fuse. This turns off the cluster.


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

Key off, pulled fuse, reconnected maestro. Unable to connect to car. My obd port must run off of or through the cluster somehow.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

You tried to connect with the key on, yes?

It was worth a shot.


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

Yeah, forgot the key on part! I have tried every trick in the book. Gonna make a bench flash setup and try that.


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## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

Can anyone suggust a good base tune for the following:

1.8T with a Beach Buggy Hybrid turbo K418 (K04-02x Hybrid) (7+7 2283 billet compressor, TFSI Turbine, and bored hotside to match manifold)
Full 3in turboback
AWIC setup
IE rods with stock pistons
AEB head with IE intake cam, springs and valves (VVT)
SEM Manifold with 70mm throttle body
N75, deleted emissions except for evap, Deleted rear O2 sensor
630 Double foggers (still waiting on a data sheet from Scott)

Monitoring AFR, Water temp, Oil temp and pressure, and boost.


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## kraftaroni (Feb 1, 2005)

Question for anyone that tunes here on vortex with maestro. 

I have a 2002 a4 1.8t quattro avant and I have just begun to tune with this program. I have many hours researching and tuning my initial tune. my question is why would my tune be so far off from baseline for 370cc injectors I'm trying to do a smog tune. Also with this tune and everything smog turned on will all readiness codes be present? also I have a stutter under load and my a/f ratios don't seem that far off I'm adding a screen shot of my fuel map and the histogram. any help would be appreciated. I paid some guy to tune my car via the net and he stiffed me. So I'm off on my own.








my car 
2.1 stroker kit
large port head/ported with ie stage 2 cams supertech valves and springs
gt3276x
3" exhaust
front mount intercooler
manual timing belt tensioner
arp everything
stock maf for the smog tune








[/URL]


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

woodywoods86 said:


> Can anyone suggust a good base tune for the following:
> 
> 1.8T with a Beach Buggy Hybrid turbo K418 (K04-02x Hybrid) (7+7 2283 billet compressor, TFSI Turbine, and bored hotside to match manifold)
> Full 3in turboback
> ...


I would personally use a nonVVT active file. Start with the stage 3 frankenturbo file. Just carry over the AlphaN and throttle angle vs airflow maps from a Gen II VVT file since you are running a larger throttle body. 

As for the data sheet this is the data sheet I received when I first got my double foggers :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aq5jqfqrikd0awk/630cc GENII.xls?dl=0

If you're having any issues PM me and I'll help you out.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

@Kraftaroni

May I ask why you are tuning for 370cc injectors with a build like this? You may not have enough fueling to run that turbo even at wastegate pressure. Also that main fuel map is terrible. You need to have smooth transitions, not peaks and valleys. I'm certain your AFR likely swings about trying to stay at STOICH while driving. 

I would personally just start with a fresh basefile. 

Also with the way the map is laid out you may have a vacuum leak.


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## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

spartiati said:


> I would personally use a nonVVT active file. Start with the stage 3 frankenturbo file. Just carry over the AlphaN and throttle angle vs airflow maps from a Gen II VVT file since you are running a larger throttle body.
> 
> As for the data sheet this is the data sheet I received when I first got my double foggers :
> 
> ...


What is the advantage of using a nonVVT file? What do you mean by Gen II VVT file?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

My personal preference. There are certain glitches in the gen 2 VVT active files that Chris refuses to address. 

To me the nonVVT active file is smoother with better fueling control and more consistent timing.


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## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

spartiati said:


> My personal preference. There are certain glitches in the gen 2 VVT active files that Chris refuses to address.
> 
> To me the nonVVT active file is smoother with better fueling control and more consistent timing.


So the VVT will still run in the nonVVT file :thumbup:, that was mostly my question. The Gen II question was about what is Gen II, haha I get it now through. Gen II 630 injectors 

I will try both and see what happens. This is my first attempt at tuning so this is going to be interesting. Thanks for the help!


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## kraftaroni (Feb 1, 2005)

I'm doing the 370 file because of smog the motor still looks stock for smog and even has the cat , air pump and all the goodies. but the standard 370 file was way to rich across the board that is why it looks so strange I'm running brand new 370cc injectors. I have 1000cc injector dynamic injectors for regular use after I get the car running. why would the base file be running at .7 lambada across the map? There are only 3 base maps for my ECU. any suggestions? the 760 line where it idles i couldn't make it any more lean or it would not idle.
Thanks
Chris


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

woodywoods86 said:


> So the VVT will still run in the nonVVT file :thumbup:, that was mostly my question. The Gen II question was about what is Gen II, haha I get it now through. Gen II 630 injectors
> 
> I will try both and see what happens. This is my first attempt at tuning so this is going to be interesting. Thanks for the help!


If you open maestro where all the basefile are, in there you'll see the Gen II files which are the VVT active. I didn't mean the injectors. 

But yes certain maps can be transferred from one file to another.


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## Leonturbo (Nov 26, 2012)

have problem
i update to 6.3.2 and the eurodyneflash cant see the cable :banghead:
who have it too?:facepalm:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

kraftaroni said:


> I'm doing the 370 file because of smog the motor still looks stock for smog and even has the cat , air pump and all the goodies. but the standard 370 file was way to rich across the board that is why it looks so strange I'm running brand new 370cc injectors. I have 1000cc injector dynamic injectors for regular use after I get the car running. why would the base file be running at .7 lambada across the map? There are only 3 base maps for my ECU. any suggestions? the 760 line where it idles i couldn't make it any more lean or it would not idle.
> Thanks
> Chris


What do you mean it runs .7? If it's always actually running at .7 lambda then something fueling wise is way off. I would start with your injector constant as that will get your fueling in the correct general area. Then you can use main fuel corrections to smooth out the fueling everywhere. 

If it's requesting .7 lambda under load you can change what is being requested in the power enrichment table or ... I'm forgetting the other name of the map off the top of my head.


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## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

Leonturbo said:


> have problem
> i update to 6.3.2 and the eurodyneflash cant see the cable :banghead:
> who have it too?:facepalm:


yes on 2 laptops on with win8 and win7

go into device manager in my computer on the win8 machine there was a device error so it had an exclamation mark it was under usb- serial adapter or something along those lines. in the win7 i had to remove some serial adapter or something i think it was called CDC serial. once i did that restart computer and when you plug in interface it will start working again.


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## The Snail (Oct 3, 2015)

Howsit guys!

Stuck here in SA learning how to use maestro, so far its amazing! Making 260kw and 390nm on my t3t4 50 trim .48ar on 440cc injectors (@1.5bar). Obviously turning boost down now because the poor injectors are beyond maxed.

Anyways to my question, while watching my logs i see that i basically never get to the timing advance values in my timing maps under a specific load. So what ive seen is that im hitting all my optimum engine torque (and cylinder filling) values. Now my question is do i increase my optimum engine torque (and maps related) in order for it to add my timing advance? (Obviously until knock prevents more).:laugh:

Thanks!


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## RoloGTI (Sep 7, 2008)

i think here is the right place to ask...I asked in a post, but this thread is better (I think)

A few years ago I had my car running with the base map file + some little modifications, AFR WOT 11.5, exhaust gases around 1300F, great idle at 15.3, smooth highway cruise, etc.
First I installed the base map without any changes...terrible..a nightmare, AFR idle 10 - 12, terrible idle, afr WOT 12.5 temperatures much higher. Then I copy all the fueling maps of the old map and paste them in the new one...same problem, then...I copy absolutely everything from the non vvt file and paste it into the vvt file...the car run worse and at idle it shut down.
I have gone back to the old file, and the car runs better, is faster, more power and it sound a bit better....
Any other one having this issues?

Stage 3 VVT 630 Siemens with TT225 MAF vs stage 3 630cc siemens

Any Ideas?...strange that the old file runs way better!!!....

Thanks!
Rolo


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Roll are you running a larger TB? If so you need to transfer the airflow maps as well. 

If not then you need to make sure you transferred ALL your fueling maps and values. 
Main fuel cor
Injector cor
BVC
Injector constant
Maf correction
Power enrichment
Full load lambda


Even with transferring those maps the two different basefiles calculate load and fuel differently so you would need to adjust anyway.


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## RoloGTI (Sep 7, 2008)

spartiati said:


> Roll are you running a larger TB? If so you need to transfer the airflow maps as well.
> 
> If not then you need to make sure you transferred ALL your fueling maps and values.
> Main fuel cor
> ...



Hello, OEM TB (Audi S3 / TT225 polished inlet manifold, but I think that don't make any difference)

I try with all Fueling...and then with all the maps...(also all constants...rev limiters and idle maps)

The car runs so bad that I don't know from were to start adjusting...It "wakes up" a bit earlier, that´s true, but...it don't worth how it runs...the AFR is any ware near the AFR requested, I change the Full load lambda, timing, make the idle leaner (also change the vs temperature values)...and no results..also I make all the high rpm / load more rich and impossible to go down 12.2....Then I load the old file...magic happens and I have back my old and great car....

P.D Until today morning I forgot how nice it runs with meth (but thats off topic)

P.D2 How many octanes are recommended for the race map fuel? (here we have 97 octane, I can use a troco accelerator..would it work or its better to get some race fuel?)

Thanks!
Rolo


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Okay gurus, Ive been using maestro for coming up on 3 years now. I have a pretty good grasp for how to set my tune up as far as fueling and timing go. I have the last 2 columns of the torque map edited as well as the axis changed on its inverse to reflect calculated load at WOT. I have zero issue with fueling or timing at partial throttle and at WOT. I've played endlessly with BVC and Injector constant, raised idle a few 100 rpm, done multiple intake/exhaust leak tests, adjusted idle torque offset in quick tune, played with injection correction to correct any possible unlinear injector response at low pulsewidth, etc. 

I cant get my car to idle well. I've tried everything I can think of. Some things seem to work for a while, but as soon as I drive the car (even with trims disabled) my idle begins to fluctuate again. Its nothing major, but I can see the car trying everything at once to stabilize my idle. Throttle fluctuates between 1.5 and 5% timing swings from -6 to +18, its just annoying. It "idles" just fine when I give light throttle input and keep rpms around 1000, timing is rock solid at ~25 degrees its just what I want. I just wish it would stay like that without me having to do anything. I'm not sure if i have an isolated case of something that is just odd, of if im overlooking something silly, but Im done playing around with it. If anyone would be kind enough to help me on a personal level, shoot me a pm or a text @ (541)-520-2511.

I dont want to crowd this already massive thread with simple suggestions again (I think this is round 3 or 4 of this same general post from me?). I will post back with the solution that is worked out for the benefit of the community, if that indeed happens.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Poody. Go into your alpha N and throttle angle vs airflow. The topmost row is 0. If you change that to something close to what you idle to then that should change your fueling stability at idle. I've found that if your throttle body sits at .78 or 1.5 but the lowest row only goes to say 2.5 in the map. The ecu is tying to extrapolate some number between zero and that row. Giving it a mor concrete number will stabilize things. It'll take some trial and error but that solved my issue with crazy fueling at idle.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Poody said:


> Okay gurus, Ive been using maestro for coming up on 3 years now. I have a pretty good grasp for how to set my tune up as far as fueling and timing go. I have the last 2 columns of the torque map edited as well as the axis changed on its inverse to reflect calculated load at WOT. I have zero issue with fueling or timing at partial throttle and at WOT. I've played endlessly with BVC and Injector constant, raised idle a few 100 rpm, done multiple intake/exhaust leak tests, adjusted idle torque offset in quick tune, played with injection correction to correct any possible unlinear injector response at low pulsewidth, etc.
> 
> I cant get my car to idle well. I've tried everything I can think of. Some things seem to work for a while, but as soon as I drive the car (even with trims disabled) my idle begins to fluctuate again. Its nothing major, but I can see the car trying everything at once to stabilize my idle. Throttle fluctuates between 1.5 and 5% timing swings from -6 to +18, its just annoying. It "idles" just fine when I give light throttle input and keep rpms around 1000, timing is rock solid at ~25 degrees its just what I want. I just wish it would stay like that without me having to do anything. I'm not sure if i have an isolated case of something that is just odd, of if im overlooking something silly, but Im done playing around with it. If anyone would be kind enough to help me on a personal level, shoot me a pm or a text @ (541)-520-2511.
> 
> I dont want to crowd this already massive thread with simple suggestions again (I think this is round 3 or 4 of this same general post from me?). I will post back with the solution that is worked out for the benefit of the community, if that indeed happens.


Had similar issues before and it turned out to be a bad injector. Have them checked in a a flowbench.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Rolo. If you want to remain with that basefile then I would just retune it from scratch.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

I have actually tweaked the map values of alpha n and the throttle vs airflow axis. Are you saying I should lower the axis of alpha n also? 

To be clear my fueling correction stays within a couple percent of 0 under almost all conditions. The throttle and related timing swings are what I'm struggling with.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Poody said:


> Okay gurus, Ive been using maestro for coming up on 3 years now. I have a pretty good grasp for how to set my tune up as far as fueling and timing go. I have the last 2 columns of the torque map edited as well as the axis changed on its inverse to reflect calculated load at WOT. I have zero issue with fueling or timing at partial throttle and at WOT. I've played endlessly with BVC and Injector constant, raised idle a few 100 rpm, done multiple intake/exhaust leak tests, adjusted idle torque offset in quick tune, played with injection correction to correct any possible unlinear injector response at low pulsewidth, etc.
> 
> I cant get my car to idle well. I've tried everything I can think of. Some things seem to work for a while, but as soon as I drive the car (even with trims disabled) my idle begins to fluctuate again. Its nothing major, but I can see the car trying everything at once to stabilize my idle. Throttle fluctuates between 1.5 and 5% timing swings from -6 to +18, its just annoying. It "idles" just fine when I give light throttle input and keep rpms around 1000, timing is rock solid at ~25 degrees its just what I want. I just wish it would stay like that without me having to do anything. I'm not sure if i have an isolated case of something that is just odd, of if im overlooking something silly, but Im done playing around with it. If anyone would be kind enough to help me on a personal level, shoot me a pm or a text @ (541)-520-2511.
> 
> I dont want to crowd this already massive thread with simple suggestions again (I think this is round 3 or 4 of this same general post from me?). I will post back with the solution that is worked out for the benefit of the community, if that indeed happens.


This also happens to me... When the car gets super warm, it smooths out a bit. Cold weather that obviously takes longer. It gets so bad the car will stall unless I hold the throttle a bit until it warms up a bit.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Poody said:


> I have actually tweaked the map values of alpha n and the throttle vs airflow axis. Are you saying I should lower the axis of alpha n also?
> 
> To be clear my fueling correction stays within a couple percent of 0 under almost all conditions. The throttle and related timing swings are what I'm struggling with.


I thought it was fueling. Then your answer lies most likely in the idle torque tables.


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## GTIfreak (Mar 25, 2001)

Alert: complete tuning newb post coming up.

So, I bought an Audi B6 1.8TQ with a Maestro 7 tune. I have the cable for the tune and I'm trying to get started. I have read the first couple of pages of the thread and I know I have a lot to learn about ECU management in general, but I'll try my luck here and see if someone can send me down a shortcut path to what I'd like to do.
First, do I just download the software from Eurodyne website, connect the cable and start reading the current file that is loaded on the ECU? 

The car has a GTRS Eliminator kit with 630cc injectors, 3" downpipe, 3" MAF etc.

My main goal at the moment is to establish what tune I have in there. That is, I'd like to make sure that it's set for 91 octane that we have around here rather than 94 octane that it could be set to from the previous owner. 
Then I would like to see what peak boost is the tune set to. I will likely be lowering it a bit as main tuning goal is reliability and driveability rather than max power. I know GTRS setup has peaky power with lag down low. If it's possible to do something about it with Maestro, I'd like to hear that too.
I see many posts say "just start logging", so to illustrate my level of newbiness, my question would be "log what and how?"

Thank you and don't hit me for stupid questions.


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Okay, so I've tried using the idle torque tables a few times, but I'm not sure what the best method to getting them just right would be. In the past I've just scaled the entire map up/ down by 5-10% without much in the way of progress. How should I go about it?


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

Poody said:


> Okay, so I've tried using the idle torque tables a few times, but I'm not sure what the best method to getting them just right would be. In the past I've just scaled the entire map up/ down by 5-10% without much in the way of progress. How should I go about it?


do u mean by Lemmi? last channel?


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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

No, not in Lemmiwinks/quick tune. 

I've HAVE scaled the quicktune idle torque value up/down in 2% increments all the way to 15% in either direction. Didn't seem to solve to idle condition.

I think what spartiati is referring to is the two idle torque maps in maestro. I have similarly scaled both maps by a few percent at a time in both directions to about 15-20% total change in either direction. This didn't seem to cure it either.

I'm just wondering if there is a way to know which cells need to be adjusted and in which direction they should be changed. Hopefully that makes sense.

The symptom I'm having is my idle is set to 900: 

It idle at slightly less than target idle, with throttle open @ about 4% and negative/slightly positive timing advance. Then idle jumps up to 1050 ish, throttle closes, timing advance goes to about 20 degrees, then idle drops to original value and repeats. Load at idle is about 25%, and drops to 16% when rpm briefly shoots up. Im sure some of you have encountered this before.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Poody said:


> No, not in Lemmiwinks/quick tune.
> 
> I've HAVE scaled the quicktune idle torque value up/down in 2% increments all the way to 15% in either direction. Didn't seem to solve to idle condition.
> 
> ...


Leave the idle torque tables stock if you're running stock cams.

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## Poody (Jun 13, 2011)

Okay. So I'll leave stock idle torque alone then. Would altering target filling be the route to take then?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

No sir

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

GTIfreak said:


> Alert: complete tuning newb post coming up.
> 
> So, I bought an Audi B6 1.8TQ with a Maestro 7 tune. I have the cable for the tune and I'm trying to get started. I have read the first couple of pages of the thread and I know I have a lot to learn about ECU management in general, but I'll try my luck here and see if someone can send me down a shortcut path to what I'd like to do.
> First, do I just download the software from Eurodyne website, connect the cable and start reading the current file that is loaded on the ECU? * Editor and Flasher is right on the customer login page *
> ...


I would suggest you pick whatever Big Turbo basefile appropriate for your ECU. Depending on year depends on what basefile you use, or else the ecu can lock up. 

Set the injector data and MAF data appropriate for your hardware and fire it up



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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> No sir
> 
> Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk


Dave, i have the same simptoms as Poody has.
Could u suggest a way of action?


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

Would there be a reason why my LTFT and STFT aren't correcting besides the n80 not plugged in? After reflash the only movement I see in block 32 is a 0.2% in the first number. Forget if that's long term or short.

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## GTIfreak (Mar 25, 2001)

Dave926 said:


> I would suggest you pick whatever Big Turbo basefile appropriate for your ECU. Depending on year depends on what basefile you use, or else the ecu can lock up.
> 
> Set the injector data and MAF data appropriate for your hardware and fire it up
> 
> ...


Thanks! I'll give that a try.


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

I have been running a base tune with injector settings and an idle tweek. I would like to start to refine it for some more power. I gonna list my full build to see if i can get a starting place and if someone could point me in the right direction of what to log so i can go from there it would be much appreciated!

2 Liter bottom end
aeb head w/ stock small port manifold and tb
stock cams. 
hy35 turbo
3 inch turbo back
1000 cc injectors at 43 psi
044 in an ie surge tank
cx racing fmic
e85
MBC Set at 30-32 psi
10.3-1 compression


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## Arsin (Apr 4, 2008)

I'm not sure if this is covered in this thread already and did a quick search and only found a few old threads on the topic but I was wondering if Eurodyne supports boost by gear. I'm pretty sure the ECU has an idea of what gear you are in based on speed sensors and such so would it be possible to limit boost by gear?


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

Not without add ons, i do not think it is possible. At least not with the stock ecu alone.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

The stock ecu is capable of it. We don't have access to do it with maestro.


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## Arsin (Apr 4, 2008)

spartiati said:


> The stock ecu is capable of it. We don't have access to do it with maestro.


That is the answer I was looking for, I knew the blocks for it were part of the ECU file. To me that seems like just reading and writing the blocks so a small change to Maestro and Flash Loader. I'm wondering if we could talk with Eurodyne/Chris Tapp and see if they could roll that into the next update of the software. If there are enough people they may add the feature. If not I may have to spend some time seeing if I could figure it out, I have a background in software development.


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

Alec's TT said:


> I have been running a base tune with injector settings and an idle tweek. I would like to start to refine it for some more power. I gonna list my full build to see if i can get a starting place and if someone could point me in the right direction of what to log so i can go from there it would be much appreciated!
> 
> 2 Liter bottom end
> aeb head w/ stock small port manifold and tb
> ...


No help?


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

Alec's TT said:


> No help?



You need to log everything! Load, Fueling, timing, knock, air flow, boost, duty cycle, calc egts.... list goes on and on and on.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Alec's TT said:


> I have been running a base tune with injector settings and an idle tweek. I would like to start to refine it for some more power. I gonna list my full build to see if i can get a starting place and if someone could point me in the right direction of what to log so i can go from there it would be much appreciated!
> 
> 2 Liter bottom end
> aeb head w/ stock small port manifold and tb
> ...


Start with a basic big turbo file, I prefer non-VVT.

Adjust latency
Adjust injector constant for E85
Set laMuda curve/values appropriate for your hardware

Be conservative with timing, till you can finalize it on a dyno. 

Get ready to run out of injector around 375whp (maybe a bit less for quattro), and run out of pump around 450-475whp.


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## Coledawgg (Nov 5, 2015)

I have a 2004 passat gls auto trans, awm motor. I bought a eurodyne and sent my ecu file to them. I got and email back from them saying that my is not supported by them. Any help on this? Any way to make it compatible?


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

Dave926 said:


> Start with a basic big turbo file, I prefer non-VVT.
> 
> Adjust latency
> Adjust injector constant for E85
> ...



Ouch, i was already hoping to be right around the 400 mark.


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

*New f21 install*

Hi guys 

Just installed an f21 on my awp motor. I am having issues with the VVT file. From what I see there are issues on these files? I am getting knock and 12 degrees on timing pull under boost. Timing requested is 16. LAMBDA is at .81 throughout. I've looked through the the VVT file and I have no clue of where it is getting the 16 timing from. The pump gas file is saying 9 and the histogram confirms this. Boost is maxing out at 25psi which is a little high for my taste.

Any ideas on the VVT file and the timing pull/knock? I don't know where it could be seeing the value of 16 for timing....

The non VVT file works okay although the power range is completely different and there are small issues in i. This is my backup plan.

I ad my k03s running smooth as butter on the maestro but the F21 is a brand new beast.....


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

UPDATE

Looks like I didn't have switching active on the VVT file. With it on it is much better. I am going to end up and start messing with the non-vvt file first.

Boost onset isn't great, revs are taking forever to drop, and car is having issues with cold starts. Fueling seems OK along with timing. Boost is high.

Does anybody have any quick tips for starting out with the AWP with F21 and Maestro? Lots more options to tweak here than the Stage 2 file.....



jearbear said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Just installed an f21 on my awp motor. I am having issues with the VVT file. From what I see there are issues on these files? I am getting knock and 12 degrees on timing pull under boost. Timing requested is 16. LAMBDA is at .81 throughout. I've looked through the the VVT file and I have no clue of where it is getting the 16 timing from. The pump gas file is saying 9 and the histogram confirms this. Boost is maxing out at 25psi which is a little high for my taste.
> 
> ...


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

Update 2

Been tweaking little things mainly in quicktune just to see if things help and things seem to improve a little after pulling out some timing and adding some fuel.

My biggest thing right now (and I assume my main problem) is the o2 correction. At idle it is fluctuating mainly between -2 and +2. At WOT it registers at 0 so I believe my trims are so out of whack it doesn't know what to do. Lambda is .81 on average under WOT.

Just looking for a pro tip to get started  



jearbear said:


> UPDATE
> 
> Looks like I didn't have switching active on the VVT file. With it on it is much better. I am going to end up and start messing with the non-vvt file first.
> 
> ...


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## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

Anyone every have their data stop logging because of too many errors?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Idle trim is fine.

0 trim at WOT is due to the ecu commanding a lambda value richer than it can control

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## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

Can anyone assist me with should be on and off in this chart.









Setup:

1.8T with a Beach Buggy Hybrid turbo K418 (K04-02x Hybrid) (7+7 2283 billet compressor, TFSI Turbine, and bored hotside to match manifold)
Full 3in turboback
AWIC setup
IE rods with stock pistons
AEB head with IE intake cam, springs and valves (VVT)
SEM Manifold with 70mm throttle body
N75, deleted emissions except for evap, Deleted rear O2 sensor
630 Double foggers (still waiting on a data sheet from Scott)


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

jearbear said:


> Update 2
> 
> Been tweaking little things mainly in quicktune just to see if things help and things seem to improve a little after pulling out some timing and adding some fuel.
> 
> ...


send me your file and I can help you out. You need to completely rework the PID control for a frankenturbo to make boost correctly.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

woodywoods86 said:


> Anyone every have their data stop logging because of too many errors?


I've never used the eurodyne logger, but with ME7Logger, MKIV's especially can be finicky to log. If you pull the fuse to the cluster while logging, I bet the communication issues will go away. There are obvious side effects to pulling the fuse, like no speedo/tach and bucking when you get on/off the throttle.


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

The boost isn't the issue, I can make it up to 22psi no problem. The problem lies with getting there! The car falls flat on its face and timing gets pulled and fueling goes open loop.
Here is a quick 4th gear log. I need to go out and get a 3rd gear to see the full range but just this 4th gear log makes me scared to do so.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8l-ZBFiN_x7QUJRWkRjNFF1SXBCbnNPbVE5YVlwOUhkQy00/view?usp=sharing

Doug from FT took a look at the log and marked it up a little.

The file is the stock file that is in Maestro for F21 VR6 MAF 550cc injectors NON VVT. If you want the one I have then PM me your e-mail and I'll get it over to you.

BTW I totally appreciate you taking a look at this. I don't even know where to start with it. Also thanks to you Doug at FT for even giving me the time of day regarding this! Awesome customer service.

EDIT: I also do have an upgraded SMIC and IATs have not been an issue before. Weather is currently around 50 degrees F when I am driving.



SB_GLI said:


> send me your file and I can help you out. You need to completely rework the PID control for a frankenturbo to make boost correctly.


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

So I ended up reverting back to my stage 2 file with the MAF map and injectors corrected from the frankenturbo file. Car runs much much better. Timing was only being pulled a MAX of 10 degrees and this was when the system went into open loop from being too rich. Brought down the boost for now and reduced some fueling, need to do some logs on it. Will also pull back some timing through the range.

Not sure what is up with the Frankenturbo file. It needs a lot of work IMO to be in with the base files. Maybe some people have good luck but it is not working well with my car.

IATs hit 58c with my upgraded SMIC after sitting in traffic (40c IAT) and doing a 3rd gear pull. Still high considering ambient temps were about 58f. Probably going to pull the trigger on an FMIC.

What are the usual IATs people are seeing with the F21? I know this turbo gets HOT HOT HOT...


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

Can someone post a screenshot of Warmup Fuel Enrichment map from a base file for 630cc injectors vs another WFE map for smaller injectors or even an ori file before Maestro tuning?

In other words, is there a desired/suitable Lambda value during warmup?

Do we need to tune the Warmup Fuel Enrichment map in Maestro? I am reading 10.1 AFR on my wideband Innovate gauge every cold start.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

Looked at your logs, and yes, PID does need work if you want quicker spool. boost duty is capped at 70% during spool up. This should be at 95% until just before your actual boost meets desired, otherwise you will get slow spool up. 

Boost request on this file is ridiculous. It requests load above the MAP limit as soon as you go WOT at 2,700rpm. NOT GOOD. You want to be right around 21psi. The ECU cannot read higher than 22.5psi. This causes all sort of problems. Open loop boost control is good for blowing up engines.

Timing is far too advanced causing the ecu to pull a ton of ignition timing. 

Your Mass Air Flow readings are all messed up. Not sure if this base tune has the MAF underscaled or what, but it's not even close to where it should be. I would expect 220 g/s by 5,500, your barely at 170 g/s.

My opinion is, that FT base file is absolute garbage. Your tune is very far off from being considered "good". I might even say that you're in the dangerous category right now. I'll send you my email so you can send me your file and I will try to help you out as much as possible.


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## 0mn1 (Aug 6, 2015)

*Save Tune*

Okay, i've searched for this but have had no results. Can you save your current tune properly to your hard drive? This is my first time using Maestro 7 and i've read the ECU it ceats the mstro file but i cannot open the file. It seems like its encrypted or something. Heh, pm if you have advice. I'm trying to optimize my tune for a meth kit that was installed in a big turbo build but i don't want to make any errors and not have a back up.


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## 0mn1 (Aug 6, 2015)

Bump is anyone in ct with maestro?


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## Joe_Anni (Aug 20, 2014)

i don't know if my question is dumb, but can i control the timing my on a stage 2 file for 1.8t AWP with k03s? i couldn't find the "fuel pump timing map" on the stg2 base file!!
if not how can i make the map more aggressive? with Maximum VE and boost PDI?

thx,


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

Yes you can and I believe it is cam timing map 1. This is the map I changed when I had to retard timing.

If you up the Max VE it will make your file more aggressive with boost and timing

I'd do some logs and make sure there is room before fiddling


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## needlessthing (Oct 28, 2005)

*Question about alpha n...*

when mapping alpha n...you you must be in closed loop and stay out of boost correct?

so how do you log data for population alpha n when you go to block 99 and force close loop? bringing up other blocks causes it to to go open loop again..and you cant be in measuring blocks and data logging through maestro dashboard at the same time. alittle confused here....i dont really have the option of removing n80 to do the same thing cause i have it tuned out...


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## Joe_Anni (Aug 20, 2014)

Guys i am having a weird symptom.
My friend car has a stg1 and run well, we flashed the car with stg 2 and 4 bar FPR as the map request, but we got a CEL of P0606 code ECM Processor faulty! And the car cut off on 3.5k rpm and won't rev anymore. 
I cleared the code and flash back stg1, the car is running good again... it happen only on stg 2.

What could cause such issue?


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

You sure you have the right file for your motor selected for the stage 2?

Worst comes to worst just port the maps over from the stage 2 file


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## Joe_Anni (Aug 20, 2014)

Yes it is a stg2 file for AWP with 4 bar FPR.. it is simple..


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## needlessthing (Oct 28, 2005)

anyone???

can not get my car to stay in open loop so I can data log and make changes to alpha n...

no matter what I do....block 99 says ON. 
Pulled resister for n80...still ON.

switching it off through block 99 works....but how do you log data to populate alpha N map?
you cant log through dashboard....and logging through the blocks just puts the car back into closed loop. 


is there another way to force open loop so I can accurately log data for alpha N?

this is getting frustrating...


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## Aviaa25 (Jan 18, 2014)

It look like no one here would like to share maestro info..
Too bad...

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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

You can go into the emissions tab and try turning off the emissions for Evap and whatever else you want in there.

If you're running a stock throttle body or 70mm then you shouldn't be messing with your airflow tables unless you are running crazy cams or some other TB. 

Not that people don't want to share info, just peoples lives are busy.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Anyone having trouble with communication between maestro and the ecu?

I wanted to scan the ecu today after months of not using maestro and after download the new updates, it keeps failing when trying to communicate with the ecu.


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## [email protected]+ (May 19, 2012)

For logs of alpha n you would log throttle position, RpM, and AFR adjustment percentage. From there, using the data in the air flow over throttle map (this is coming from tuning ME7 in general, maestro might use different names but it should say that above) adjust the given values by throttle angles per RpM by the given percentage values that were logged in AFR. I don't know if that's what you meant by "populating alpha n map" but those are the variables to log to do it.









That's not from Maestro obviously, but the map should be the same. You should be able to get this information using VCDS Lite if you can't use the logger from maestro 

Unless I mistook your question 


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

But also, whatever changes you do to Alpha-N you must also make to the throttle angle vs airflow map.


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## [email protected]+ (May 19, 2012)

If your referring to the one that is based off of MAF readings, that wouldn't need to be adjusted as alpha-n is usually associated to MAF-less operations. I know it can be adjusted and function with a MAF though in the instance that the MAF fails. 

However, if your talking about the inverse map i have never had to make many adjustments to it myself as I have never had WG crack pressure above 10 psi. Not that you can't delve that deep, just that I've never had much need. You can make similar adjustments throughout after the fact using FKKVS (or pump gas injector model i believe is what it's referred too, feel free to correct) to smooth out any irregularities. 

Feel free to correct any information on giving though, I'm still learning a lot of this myself. Also, in reference to the original question, FKKVS still needs to be open loop logging to adapt and correct. Which I also believe that can be achieved through VCDS if you have access to a licensed version by going to block 099-and switching LR Off in basic functions 




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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

You're correct I was referring to the inverse map. It's not the bad honestly. In Maestro it has a tab on the alpha N map that you click on after you've made your changes. It then gives you what to change the Y axis values to in the inverse map to match accordingly... 

Idk about the maps not matching but it honestly take 2 minutes to make the changes. No guesswork either with Maestro.


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## [email protected]+ (May 19, 2012)

Nice ok well then yea that should get done. I know it helps with throttle response I just never got around to it 


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

Anyone else locked out today? I can't get into the eurodyne site (updated VCDS and was going to update Maestro since I hadn't in a while). I get a "lock out" page. 

Joe


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Went to update it a month ago and had to log into eurodyne page to get most recent updates and can't for the life of me remember my passcode. Lol


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## 03WB-1.8t (Sep 11, 2010)

Hey guy, 
I have done a tone of reading, and searching and i am still having some issue. 

2004 GLI 1.8T 6 speed car
stock intake with drop in filter
3" catless downpipe - cat back exhaust
4bar FPR
BKR7E's @ .028

I loaded a Eurodyne stage 2 4bar base file on my car, started it, did the normal cold start, start up routine, went to back out of driveway and the car started misfiring and sounded like it has some huge cams in it. I cant touch the gas the car just spits, and coughs and pops, then check engine light starts flashing. 

Now mind you i drove the car running perfectly fine to the post office, picked up my package that had the eurodyne cable, drove home normal, loaded the flash and this started happening. I did rule out coil packs and plugs. I di 4 new OEM coil packs, and 4 new NGK BKR7E's gaped at 0.28.

I have tried to load the factory file back into the car, and i cant seem to locate the factory file.

Can anyone help me out? I am at a loss here. 

Thanks
Andrew


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

As far as I know you will not be able to load the factory file onto there (I had no luck since the original file that is read is encrypted)

Try loading a stage 1 on there and see how it goes. I have not had issues with loading the stage 2 on my car so I am unsure.

Right now I am using the stage 2 as the base file for my F21 turbo... I get the same symptoms if I drop the RPMs too much when it is being warmed up.

I would flash to a stage 1 and see how it works.



03WB-1.8t said:


> Hey guy,
> I have done a tone of reading, and searching and i am still having some issue.
> 
> 2004 GLI 1.8T 6 speed car
> ...


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## 03WB-1.8t (Sep 11, 2010)

jearbear said:


> As far as I know you will not be able to load the factory file onto there (I had no luck since the original file that is read is encrypted)
> 
> Try loading a stage 1 on there and see how it goes. I have not had issues with loading the stage 2 on my car so I am unsure.
> 
> ...


I tried the stage 1 file, but had same issues. I email Eurodyne, and they asked to make sure 2 step was NOT enabled and if it was, that it was set up correctly. I dont have 2 Step enabled, so that didn't help much.

Thanks
Andrew


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

that sounds really odd, did you try any other files not just the stage 2? i flashed my TT monday and had zero problems with both stage 1 and 2 files (awp motor code). are you 100% sure when you did the flash the system was able to finish loading properly?


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## 03WB-1.8t (Sep 11, 2010)

carsluTT said:


> that sounds really odd, did you try any other files not just the stage 2? i flashed my TT monday and had zero problems with both stage 1 and 2 files (awp motor code). are you 100% sure when you did the flash the system was able to finish loading properly?



I have tried stage 1 and tried stage 2 in multiple configurations, done full diagnostic checks on the car, looked over wiring, vacuum leaks, the whole 9 yards. I am at a loss at this point. I know the flash has installed correctly each time, and follow all directions form Eurodyne and this page step by step each time. This isn't my first time flashing a car myself. I am not sure what else to do at this point. I have tried talking to eurodyne very nicely, and not pointing the finger at them, and all he would say is its not the tune. I know its probably not the tune its self, lots of people run these same files with no issues and great results. There just has to be something i am missing, or a issue with the ECU took a ****, I am not sure. I have looked at all the files they said the stock read file should be in, and there is nothing, i don't see any factory files in my options list. I really wish i could flash back to a stock file to rule out a software issue. Eurodyne also emailed me back saying that there is no way to get me a factory file..... At this point i wanna buy another ECU with stock fine and see if that changes anything.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Can't you just scan the whole ECU and send the file to Eurodyne for them to see if something is wrong? Have you done anything, or has anything random happened (pothole, etc) out of the ordinary?


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## 03WB-1.8t (Sep 11, 2010)

l88m22vette said:


> Can't you just scan the whole ECU and send the file to Eurodyne for them to see if something is wrong? Have you done anything, or has anything random happened (pothole, etc) out of the ordinary?


That's what I called Eurodyne about earlier, and pretty much he told me of the tune went in with now issues then there really no point of reading the Ecu and sending it to him, cause if there was a issue with the flash the flash software is smart enough to to catch it blah blah blah. 

I got it running, and it's doing good, just now having a breaking up issue around 3k that I can't figure out. 

Thanks 
Andrew


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

How about some logs during your issue? Sounds like a boost leak or something like that to me


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## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

*Cruise Control*

DBW cruise control

Q1: Is it fixed on an AWP ECU with the latest version 5.1.2 (editor)?
Q2: Do I need to start again from a base map and re-input settings with this version, or can I use my current map file?

I ask because I tried several versions a couple years ago with no luck - and I need to take some longer drives where my right foot will get me in trouble after some time if I can't get it working. 

I noticed that in the screen with the O2 sensor settings etc, there used to be a option for cruse / no cruise - that never seemed to work, and I see it's no longer there. So maybe that all got straightened out at some point that I missed (wish they had a "what's fixed" log for each version). I'm happy with the current settings for this setup, so if I don't have to start from scratch and re-input all the changes - that would be great. But if that is needed to get it to work, I will.

Just looking for some advice.

Thanks!


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## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

Well, I tried again with my file - nothing.

I then tried changing it from 6 speed to 5 speed (which it really is) - since I saw that mentioned in one post - nothing.

Guess I'll send this all to Chris in email to see if he has ideas, as I'd really like to this to work. Otherwise, I may have to take the 2.Slow Jetta.


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## AutoMax (Jun 12, 2015)

03WB-1.8t said:


> I have tried stage 1 and tried stage 2 in multiple configurations, done full diagnostic checks on the car, looked over wiring, vacuum leaks, the whole 9 yards. I am at a loss at this point. I know the flash has installed correctly each time, and follow all directions form Eurodyne and this page step by step each time. This isn't my first time flashing a car myself. I am not sure what else to do at this point. I have tried talking to eurodyne very nicely, and not pointing the finger at them, and all he would say is its not the tune. I know its probably not the tune its self, lots of people run these same files with no issues and great results. There just has to be something i am missing, or a issue with the ECU took a ****, I am not sure. I have looked at all the files they said the stock read file should be in, and there is nothing, i don't see any factory files in my options list. I really wish i could flash back to a stock file to rule out a software issue. Eurodyne also emailed me back saying that there is no way to get me a factory file..... At this point i wanna buy another ECU with stock fine and see if that changes anything.


Just a thought, when it says 4 bar file it refers to the fuel pressure, are you running 4 bar static? 

Also, logs go a loooong way

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## 03WB-1.8t (Sep 11, 2010)

AutoMax said:


> Just a thought, when it says 4 bar file it refers to the fuel pressure, are you running 4 bar static?
> 
> Also, logs go a loooong way
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


4bar FPR, confirmed with Eurodyne. I am running and 4bar FPR. Did logs. Found it was leaning out and injectors were maxing themselves out. On OEM 117k miles factory fuel pump. Upgraded pump should be here tomorrow. See if that solves my fuel issue. 

Thanks
Andrew


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## AutoMax (Jun 12, 2015)

03WB-1.8t said:


> 4bar FPR, confirmed with Eurodyne. I am running and 4bar FPR. Did logs. Found it was leaning out and injectors were maxing themselves out. On OEM 117k miles factory fuel pump. Upgraded pump should be here tomorrow. See if that solves my fuel issue.
> 
> Thanks
> Andrew


If you're running out of injector I don't see how a new pump will help unless the pump cannot keep fuel pressure at 4bar.

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## LilNipper (Jun 13, 2015)

subscribed... man, I am only on page 17 way back in 2010 yet. Just got the basic stage 1 tune on my BEA 2003 audi tt 225 quattro


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## 03WB-1.8t (Sep 11, 2010)

AutoMax said:


> If you're running out of injector I don't see how a new pump will help unless the pump cannot keep fuel pressure at 4bar.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Pump was on its way out. Before my new one showed up I was having cold start issues. New upgraded drop in pump is in, and cleared up all my issues 100%. Now logging and tuning  Thanks everyone for the help. Making some final tweaks on the car tonight and will be on the Dyno tomorrow.


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## LilNipper (Jun 13, 2015)

*2003 Audi TT 225 quattro ME7 stepping up*

I emailed Chris Tapp asking if there was any stage 2 tune for the 2003 Audi TT 225 Quattro BEA wideband. I also informed him that I am going deleting emissions and that I am running a straight 3 inch no restriction turbo back to a single outlet.

According to Chris "There is no stage 2 available for that ecu because the stage 1 reached the fueling limits. You can use the editor to turn off fault codes if you have removed equipment and do not want the check engine light to come on."

He has not got back to me (day 3 now) about what supporting modifications are necessary to jump into the file named: BEA_Stage3_EV14_1000_S4Maf.mstro

I assume it would involve 1000cc injectors, a fuel rail and things to make the fuel rail work, and a S4 Mass air flow swap.

I can't figure out looking at the file what OCT fuel the tune was optimized toward either. 91-93? E85? Race Gas?

I also can't tell if the stage 1 tune will support the 3inch straight to muffler single I have for the car.

I emailed 034 about their fuel rail kit and 1000cc injectors this is what they had to say:


"Yes, our billet fuel rail kit will allow you to run either short or tall injectors. We supply spacers which are meant to be installed in the configuration below depending on your intake manifold and injector combo.

Installing Spacers:

Small Port Manifold & 48.8mm Injectors - 1 Spacer
Small Port Manifold & 60.3mm Injectors - 2 Spacers
Large Port Manifold & 48.8mm Injectors - No Spacer
Large Port Manifold & 60.3mm Injectors - 1 Spacer

https://store.034motorsport.com/dro...-golf-jetta-gti-gli-1-8t-billet-aluminum.html

You will need an upgraded fuel pump for 1,000cc injectors. We use the DW in-tank ones often, and this is the one for AWD applications: https://store.034motorsport.com/hig...3-tt-ttrs-quattro-deatschwerks-dw65v-awd.html

An inline fuel pump by itself won't be sufficient for 1,000cc injectors with the stock in-tank pump, unless you're using a surge tank. You may want to check out our FP34 Surge Tank to install in-line: https://store.034motorsport.com/fully-enclosed-fp34-fuel-pump-surge-tank-for-bosch-044.html

Regarding the injectors, we'd recommend checking what your tuner prefers. Many people run the Injector Dynamics ID1000 injectors, but your tuner may advise something different."


Hope that helps!"


Any help/suggestions/input/links to parts or part #s/etc would be awesome please.

Lilnipper-


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

No tune is fully optimized. That's why it is called a basefile. You take it and tailor it to your car. With that said ALL files are generally tuned for pump. None are tuned for e85. There is a race timing map that you can switch to in order to advance the timing further for when you run race fuel, water meth etc.

Now with that said, just because a tune says 1000cc doesn't mean the car needs 1000cc. If you're on a stock turbo with a full turbo back then you could run 550's. Especially if you have no plans to run e85 or an upgraded turbo, there is no need to run an injector that large. 

You can use the file you are currently running and just tweak the injector constant, Battery voltage compensation and fueling correction tables to make it all work.

In regards to the fuel pump you can get a genuine inline walbro pump that will handle anything up to 450-500whp safely. If it's a street car no need to go nuts with a surge tank. Heck you don't even really NEED to change the fuel rail. 

Walbro inline fuel pump (please dont buy from ebay, make sure it comes from a reputable source) with Bosch 550's is all you need. 

You can check to see if deutchwerks made an intank fuel pump upgrade for the TT. They have one for the mkiv that drops right into the factory location and will handle well over 400whp if you don't want to mess with wiring and plumbing in an inline pump.


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## LilNipper (Jun 13, 2015)

spartiati said:


> No tune is fully optimized. That's why it is called a basefile. You take it and tailor it to your car. With that said ALL files are generally tuned for pump. None are tuned for e85. There is a race timing map that you can switch to in order to advance the timing further for when you run race fuel, water meth etc.
> 
> Now with that said, just because a tune says 1000cc doesn't mean the car needs 1000cc. If you're on a stock turbo with a full turbo back then you could run 550's. Especially if you have no plans to run e85 or an upgraded turbo, there is no need to run an injector that large.
> 
> ...


I will likely be going efr7163 next year. We are aiming between 400-500 whp based on the cars in the class we are competing against. Hill climb racing.

Are there any youtube vids you folks can recommend on engine tuning?

Thanks for the reply btw.


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## trevwahh (Feb 10, 2011)

*low boost tune?*

so i just got maestro 7, gt2871r eliminator, tt 225 maf sensor and 630cc injectors. i know the base 630 tune is not stock rod safe which is a problem since i havent done the ie drop ins yet.. does anyone have some fast pointers so i can safely drive with a maximum of 18 psi of boost or a tune anyone would be willing to email me?thanks in advance :beer:


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## jueshen (Apr 4, 2016)

*No Lift Shift Question 1.8T*

Hi,

in regards to the no lift shift is there no way that it can only work when on WOT just like how the WOTBOX used to work?
now it works every time when the clutch is pressed and it sucks!
I wish I never sell my WOTBOX!!

if not is it possible that I can use my cruise control to have 2 maps
on for NLS on
off for no lift shift off

??

I am running maffless so cruise control does not work anyway..

thanks!


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

New Maestro user here. I recently just switched over to Maestro after completing the last of the hardware changes from my old setup to the current. I am running one of the base files now and looking to learn more about what I'm looking at to get the tune dialed in better, but first thing's first I am having issues running the Maestro logger. I have seen several older posts on the issue, but since so many solutions seemed to be device/Windows related I figured I would bring the issue back up and see if there are new solutions for newer PCs. 

I can log all day long using measuring blocks, but the Maestro Logger won't work for some reason. I will either not connect at all ("too many errors") or it will connect and just show outrageous values (15k rpm, etc) I've tried messing with the communication speeds, tried different sequences of events as far as turning the car on/starting the log, and have tried both a Windows 7 and a windows 8 machine. 

Appreciate any fixes that have worked for you all. Thanks!


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

Still learning the system myself but if I were you I would shift your whole max ve curve to the right a small bit and lower it... maybe lower some timing.... also lower the boost duty a bit to cap the boost

I don't know what the file looks like or what the setup you have can make power-wise though and like I said before I am pretty novice at this myself



trevwahh said:


> so i just got maestro 7, gt2871r eliminator, tt 225 maf sensor and 630cc injectors. i know the base 630 tune is not stock rod safe which is a problem since i havent done the ie drop ins yet.. does anyone have some fast pointers so i can safely drive with a maximum of 18 psi of boost or a tune anyone would be willing to email me?thanks in advance :beer:


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

My quick settings will not write. Emailed eurodyne, he said its because i have an older mk1 TT, i know that is not the case because i was adjusting my 2 step at the drag strip before it stopped working. I can flash new tunes just fine but when i try and write the quick settings, it freezes and say cannot write ecu after it starts "searching" anyone else seen this?


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## StateSideS3 (Apr 13, 2007)

Has anyone figured out why some files and cars with the 2 step enabled will stall out and then when u restart its like the 2 step is on at 1200rpm and it just pops and get not throttle?


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

Anybody know why my RPMs drop when coming to a light? Sometimes it even stalls out if I brake too hard and come to a stop and put the clutch in.

Was fine before the 3" MAF housing so I am assuming that has to do with it. Housing scaling for MAF should be correct.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

StateSideS3 said:


> Has anyone figured out why some files and cars with the 2 step enabled will stall out and then when u restart its like the 2 step is on at 1200rpm and it just pops and get not throttle?


I've found that the vvt active files have issues with the 2 step basically getting stuck on after a restart. Only way to solve it is to reflash the same exact file. I haven't tested it on the non vvt files. Honestly unless you have a laptop and maestro cable with you at all times I wouldn't bother running it ... If it occurs then you're basically stranded until you reflash.


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

jearbear said:


> Anybody know why my RPMs drop when coming to a light? Sometimes it even stalls out if I brake too hard and come to a stop and put the clutch in.
> 
> Was fine before the 3" MAF housing so I am assuming that has to do with it. Housing scaling for MAF should be correct.


same here, although mafless.So far could not find a fix.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Rpms dropping when you initially hit the clutch could also be because of a lightweight flywheel if you are running one. I had that issue for a while and noticed it completely disappeared when I changed my flywheel/clutch. The low mass makes the RPM changes more drastic.


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## Aviaa25 (Jan 18, 2014)

What about rpms raising when switching gears?
Its Like you still on the gas..

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


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## Yankeedude (Mar 20, 2007)

*f21 knock*

Flashed f21 vvt vr6 maf file and having a tough time with it. Boosting to 25 psi on 91 octane California gas and pulling timing -12 degrees. This base file is garbage. Scaled back timing by 5 degrees in pump gas map, race gas, cam 1 and cam 2. Hasn't changed a thing but bring boost down. Definitely very new to maestro. Open to suggestions.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

Yankeedude said:


> Flashed f21 vvt vr6 maf file and having a tough time with it. Boosting to 25 psi on 91 octane California gas and pulling timing -12 degrees. This base file is garbage. Scaled back timing by 5 degrees in pump gas map, race gas, cam 1 and cam 2. Hasn't changed a thing but bring boost down. Definitely very new to maestro. Open to suggestions.


As you mentioned, the f21 files are garbage. No finesse, max load request as to put ecu into open loop boost control. In fact, with maestro, you are missing some key tables which will make tuning a f21 correctly pretty much impossible.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Yankeedude said:


> Flashed f21 vvt vr6 maf file and having a tough time with it. Boosting to 25 psi on 91 octane California gas and pulling timing -12 degrees. This base file is garbage. Scaled back timing by 5 degrees in pump gas map, race gas, cam 1 and cam 2. Hasn't changed a thing but bring boost down. Definitely very new to maestro. Open to suggestions.


Go into the Max VE and VE knock tables and bring those down. The file is requesting too much load. Do that, log it and you can go from there in terms of tailoring boost onset and timing. 

Maestro may not be ideal but with some time you can have a good running car.


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

Do you have wmi or fmi? When I put my FMIC on it made running this turbo much easier, you really can't run the turbo on a SMIC efficiently.. I also ran the stage 2 file instead of the stage 3 FT file.

Exactly what sb_gli said, lots of maps aren't accessible. I've been tweaking mine for months and finally just got it pretty good. SB_GLI actually gave me a big hand in the early days and was a huge help.



Yankeedude said:


> Flashed f21 vvt vr6 maf file and having a tough time with it. Boosting to 25 psi on 91 octane California gas and pulling timing -12 degrees. This base file is garbage. Scaled back timing by 5 degrees in pump gas map, race gas, cam 1 and cam 2. Hasn't changed a thing but bring boost down. Definitely very new to maestro. Open to suggestions.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

jearbear said:


> I've been tweaking mine for months and finally just got it pretty good. SB_GLI actually gave me a big hand in the early days and was a huge help.


I'd be interested to see your logs to see how it's coming along!


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

I'll have to send some over! Still need to do the fine tuning on fuel but the rest seems good... 

Talking with Yankeedude maybe I need to give the stage 3 VVT file another go now that I have my FMIC.... Hmm.... curious to the differences....



SB_GLI said:


> I'd be interested to see your logs to see how it's coming along!


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## LilNipper (Jun 13, 2015)

How do I scale a new map sensor with eurodyne? 22psi of the factory sensor is not enough. Links and any point in the right direction would be awesome


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

*F21t ldrxn (max ve)*

Other Frankenturbo F21 users..... what does your LDRXN (Max VE) map look like? I am trying to get mine more dialed in. Pretty much have it close to what I want but I am very curious as to what others have... maybe mine can be optimized a bit more...

Also, what are the downsides to having too much request at low RPM?


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## 03WB-1.8t (Sep 11, 2010)

Anyone have a stage 2 file that works well on CA 91 oct? I have the stage 2 file from Eurodyne flashed and its pulls timing like crazy. I pulled a bunch of timing out of it to make it safe, but feel like i am leaving a lot on the table. 

Thanks
Andrew 

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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

Had the same issue. Best thing I did to that file was pull the boost duty down (if you are running N75).

I have a file I can send for the stage 2 but it isn't tweaked more than boost duty down to about 60 under boost and some timing pulled... maybe a little extra fuel

IIRC they were lazy with the boost duty and they pegged it at 95 across the board



03WB-1.8t said:


> Anyone have a stage 2 file that works well on CA 91 oct? I have the stage 2 file from Eurodyne flashed and its pulls timing like crazy. I pulled a bunch of timing out of it to make it safe, but feel like i am leaving a lot on the table.
> 
> Thanks
> Andrew
> ...


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## LilNipper (Jun 13, 2015)

Anybody on the map sensor deal?


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## 03WB-1.8t (Sep 11, 2010)

jearbear said:


> Had the same issue. Best thing I did to that file was pull the boost duty down (if you are running N75).
> 
> I have a file I can send for the stage 2 but it isn't tweaked more than boost duty down to about 60 under boost and some timing pulled... maybe a little extra fuel
> 
> IIRC they were lazy with the boost duty and they pegged it at 95 across the board


Sounds about rightm can you send me that file? I will give it a shot. 

Thanks
Andrew
[email protected] 

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

I just got up and running on Maestro for my 2871R 630cc setup and am also fairly new to tuning. Have a question for you on Cam Timing. I have two files I'm working with now- one of them being the base 630cc file from Eurodyne for the TT225 MAF and the other being a similar file from a friend where VVT is enabled. The Cam Timing on the file from my friend looks very much like the image below. The Cam Timing on the file from Eurodyne has is set at 18.0012 across the board. I was under the impression that our cam timing could only be set at 0 or 22 degrees because of the way VVT works. Is this an error on the Eurodyne file? The Optimum Timing maps for each cam position between these files are very similar, so it seems strange that there would be such a difference in the cam timing. 

I have driven the car on both files and was hoping I could figure out combining some of the better characteristics from each file into one. My fuel trims on the base Eurodyne file are horrendous, so was initially looking at bringing over the fuel maps. but now I'm thinking I need to better understand the cam timing as well


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## Yankeedude (Mar 20, 2007)

I am now really happy with the vvt 550 base file. Didn't check the active switching box initially in quicktune. Did that and removed 1 degree of timing and car is running stellar. 22 psi, no dead spots, doesn't hang revs much, almost zero knock, and very enjoyable.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Cam timing is simply when the VVT moves the intake cam. The files with 18degrees do not utilize this during driving. The file with 0 and 22 in the map use it to help increase spool. It has nothing to do with ignition timing.


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I figured the default position for a nonVVT tune would be 0 across the board, so good to confirm that 18 degrees is normal there. I realized the ignition timing is a whole different ball game, but probably over thinking the relationship between things. The base 630 file hasn't worked as well on my car as I had hoped, so likely making things harder on myself than I need to in order to get it running better. I'll share some logs once I can get the maestro logger working correctly.


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

*Boost PID in Eurodyne*

So what is annoying is on all these stage 3 files Eurodyne doesn't give you access to the P and D functions of the PID controller. This is extremely annoying because this is what is giving me problems with dialing in my boost

Has anybody had luck just tuning the I portion? I believe it is KFLDIMX. I can raise it and meet the boost requested but the oscillation and surging gets really bad and it takes a couple of seconds to hold the boost at my requested

Could I possibly raise the KFLDIMX and lower the N75 duty as a band aid? N75 duty cycle at 22psi is roughly 66% DC.

Planning on getting started with Tunerpro this weekend since Eurodyne Maestro is so restrictive.

EDIT: Here is a graph, as you can see it likes to settle at 65 to meet boost (22 psi). I've tried a couple different combinations to get it in the ball park but the surging is terrible

Blue is actual boost, Red is requested boost, gray is WG duty cycle


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## LilNipper (Jun 13, 2015)

jearbear said:


> So what is annoying is on all these stage 3 files Eurodyne doesn't give you access to the P and D functions of the PID controller. This is extremely annoying because this is what is giving me problems with dialing in my boost
> 
> Has anybody had luck just tuning the I portion? I believe it is KFLDIMX. I can raise it and meet the boost requested but the oscillation and surging gets really bad and it takes a couple of seconds to hold the boost at my requested
> 
> ...



You've nailed it on the head.

Edited to be politically correct


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

Good thing I am subscribed to this thread in my email  saw your original reply.

Emailed eurodyne twice, let's see if I get a reply. I wish they would have a view option for the blocks and be able to customize every aspect of it if you want. Hide all the blocks you don't want to deal with. Done.

I bought this for heavy customization and decent base tunes (stage 1 and 2 were fairly okay, F21 files are not good) but I feel like I'm not experiencing any of those things. Also customer service is pretty much non existent. This solution is not cheap (around $800). Funny that the free open source option has a lot more flexibility than this $800 package. 

Right now I just want to be able to tune the PID controller correctly! Just enable it!!!



LilNipper said:


> You've nailed it on the head.
> 
> Edited to be politically correct


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

Got a reply today back from Eurodyne, he said they were going to look at implementing the P I D maps but it might take a while

In the meantime I have band aided my problem with the boost duty. I upped the PID about 8% and boost duty about 3% (boost duty 66% avg and PID 78% avg). Holds good once it hits the boost target! Could be better though so we will see if I can refine it more without the full PID maps

Didn't get as far with Tunerpro as I wanted to over the weekend :/


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## LilNipper (Jun 13, 2015)

jearbear said:


> Got a reply today back from Eurodyne, he said they were going to look at implementing the P I D maps but it might take a while
> 
> In the meantime I have band aided my problem with the boost duty. I upped the PID about 8% and boost duty about 3% (boost duty 66% avg and PID 78% avg). Holds good once it hits the boost target! Could be better though so we will see if I can refine it more without the full PID maps
> 
> Didn't get as far with Tunerpro as I wanted to over the weekend :/



How did you contact him I've been emailing him and he has just not been answering my emails at all


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

LilNipper said:


> How did you contact him I've been emailing him and he has just not been answering my emails at all


I been having the same experience. Also tried calling, hoping that if I got the software issues straightened out I could at least learn to help myself on the performance side. All I got was a generic voicemail when using the number on the site.


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## LilNipper (Jun 13, 2015)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> I been having the same experience. Also tried calling, hoping that if I got the software issues straightened out I could at least learn to help myself on the performance side. All I got was a generic voicemail when using the number on the site.


I've called and emailed multiple times, no response for over two months....


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

I just emailed him twice about the same problem. I emailed him a while ago about the same problem. I'm fairly persistent but not like a crazy significant other persistent 

He might just use a random number generator to pick what emails to reply to 

I think he is too busy and emails get pushed off to the side which sucks.

It does suck and he should hire someone for customer service, maybe even someone strictly for maestro



LilNipper said:


> How did you contact him I've been emailing him and he has just not been answering my emails at all


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## LilNipper (Jun 13, 2015)

jearbear said:


> I just emailed him twice about the same problem. I emailed him a while ago about the same problem. I'm fairly persistent but not like a crazy significant other persistent
> 
> He might just use a random number generator to pick what emails to reply to
> 
> ...



The next time you email him could you email him about how to scale for a map sensor because we need to go to a 4 bar map sensor for ever going to see if more than 22 PSI. I have a BEA ECU.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

LilNipper said:


> The next time you email him could you email him about how to scale for a map sensor because we need to go to a 4 bar map sensor for ever going to see if more than 22 PSI. I have a BEA ECU.


Ha! Good luck with that. Ain't ever gonna happen. Not sure Tapp would know how to do this... this isn't just a single map that needs to be re-scaled. *Every* reference to pressure in the *entire ecu* needs to be divided in half (or values doubled) and other assembly code hacks as well. Let's just say that it's a major undertaking.

With that said, I am running a 5120 hack on my f21 jetta, and it's the only way to go when you want to boost above 22.5 psi. (many thanks to the late great ddillinger, wouldn't have happened with him  )


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I've asked him to do this mulitple times over the past 2-3 years. I would say don't hold your breath. 

It would be great to have the ECU being able to see the amount of pressure it is running. Truth is though he's moved on from the MKIV platform and is focusing on other cars. What we have is likely what we're going to ever have. Unless he has some downtime. Highly unlikely though.


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## euroguy666 (Apr 8, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I've asked him to do this mulitple times over the past 2-3 years. I would say don't hold your breath.
> 
> It would be great to have the ECU being able to see the amount of pressure it is running. Truth is though he's moved on from the MKIV platform and is focusing on other cars. What we have is likely what we're going to ever have. Unless he has some downtime. Highly unlikely though.


Ditto. It's been covered a few times. Eventually I will just go with haltec or infinity and take the car off the street all together

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## 20thAEGti1009 (Jan 28, 2005)

I recently installed maestro on my car and I am having an issue that I cannot seem to figure out. I have searched all over the place but cannot find any info. My issue I am having is that after a hard pull and fast shift my throttle will only open to 25%. If I am driving normal everything is fine. It is only when I am driving hard. I have to stay off the gas pedal for about 2-3 seconds so I can regain my throttle. 

Does anyone have any ideas what may be causing this. I have to fix this asap since I have a 1/2 mile event this coming weekend. Any held would be appreciated.


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Anyone have any experience with ECU swaps? I recently figured out that my Maestro issues were all due to the fact that my Eurodyne flashes were being blocked out by an APR EMCS chip on the ECU (never knew they installed one versus just flashing the ECU). I have another AWP ecu to work with but came from a car with an automatic. Do I need to get into recoding via VAG COM to address the trans difference or will that be taken care of once I apply my Eurodyne flash? 


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Finally got the ECU issues worked out and have Eurodyne on the car, Maestro logger working, etc. Figured I would post an initial log for some feedback. 

Setup is:

-mostly stock AWP with IE rods
-PPT manifold, GT2871R internally gated 7psi actuator
-Bosch Motorsport EV14 630cc injectors
-TT225 MAF

Running on the Eurodyne base 630cc file for the TT225 MAF with injector constant changed to reflect 630cc @ 3bar on 1781cc displacement

Car runs OK but not great. Idle sucks until the car is warmed up (but figure I'll address that later) Car pulls hard at part throttle, but at WOT and higher RPM even while holding boost doesn't feel very strong. Boost build at very low throttle inputs is extremely responsive, maybe even TOO responsive. 

Would really like some inputs on the basics here to start. The timing values seem much more retarded from where I figured they'd be? While I understand mostly how to dial in fuel using calibration and histograms, the timing I'm less sure on- if it's an adjustment thing or if timing issues are a response to other elements being out of whack? Also notice that I have a substantial difference between boost requested and actual, but figure that should be messed with after dialing in fuel and timing. Hardware should all be good as it's fairly new and was setup and running well on my previous software. I'll continue to work on dialing in the fuel and report back as I have updates.

Log
File


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## grayfox (May 13, 2003)

I'm not a pro by any means but...

First - are you using an MBC?

The boost request is way too high, it is going out of the limits of the system which is probably causing lots of issues (fueling open loop which is why lambda is .75). You also either have a boost leak or something else going on because you are not close to meeting requested. If you fix that then I think things will smooth out a bit but will probably still need more work.

I'd drop your max VE down maybe to a max of 195 to fix that while you figure out the timing and fueling. Dropping boost request is going to help with the fueling since it is going open loop. It is maxing out the reading @ .75

Timing histogram is easy. Just do a couple pulls and trace knock in cylinder 4. If you don't see any pull then bump it up by 1.5*. You don't have a lot of timing pull so I think you can advance it a small bit but get the fueling somewhat close first

What I did on my file (f21t) was drop max ve, get fuel trims in order (block 032), and take out all fuel corrections. After things started looking better then I went back and started making small changes.

You're going to find though that box files in Maestro are not very good and need a lot of work... also the software is pretty restrictive



flat6turboGT1 said:


> Finally got the ECU issues worked out and have Eurodyne on the car, Maestro logger working, etc. Figured I would post an initial log for some feedback.
> 
> Setup is:
> 
> ...


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## Dubstuning (Nov 1, 2007)

So a couple questions if anybody has advice that would be great. 04 B6 A4 6 speed(i know not a vw but i figured this was a better place to post), 50 trim, atp manifold, mafless, 630cc file. I dont get any knock feedback at all. The cylinder correction in the logger stays at 0 all the time. I altered the pump gas timing map thinking "hey i can add a bit more." Next, I added a few degrees at a time and still no timing pull via the cylinder correction boxes in the logger. Added a bit more and still no pull. Stopping at this point as the pump gas timing map exceeds the base race gas map and i feel like it should definitely be pulling timing but I'm not seeing it in the cylinder correction boxes like i should. Dumped the timing back down to what the base file had and stopping at this point. On top of all this - getting it at about 20psi and it is SLOW. Less than stage 1 would be. Ive checked over everything (exhaust restriction, intake leaks and restriction, compression) and cant seem to see why its so slow. The only thing i cant check at this point is the tune. Well, i can check it but im missing something. 

At this point im beyond frustrated. Any guru's out there want to help e tune this thing i would be ecstatic. Or if anybody can point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

Dubstuning said:


> So a couple questions if anybody has advice that would be great. 04 B6 A4 6 speed(i know not a vw but i figured this was a better place to post), 50 trim, atp manifold, mafless, 630cc file. I dont get any knock feedback at all. The cylinder correction in the logger stays at 0 all the time. I altered the pump gas timing map thinking "hey i can add a bit more." Next, I added a few degrees at a time and still no timing pull via the cylinder correction boxes in the logger. Added a bit more and still no pull. Stopping at this point as the pump gas timing map exceeds the base race gas map and i feel like it should definitely be pulling timing but I'm not seeing it in the cylinder correction boxes like i should. Dumped the timing back down to what the base file had and stopping at this point. On top of all this - getting it at about 20psi and it is SLOW. Less than stage 1 would be. Ive checked over everything (exhaust restriction, intake leaks and restriction, compression) and cant seem to see why its so slow. The only thing i cant check at this point is the tune. Well, i can check it but im missing something.
> 
> At this point im beyond frustrated. Any guru's out there want to help e tune this thing i would be ecstatic. Or if anybody can point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.


Are you using a file specifically for the b6 a4? those cars are returnless fuel system and you'd have lots of issues flashing a different binary.

What are your actual ignition angles during a WOT pull? Logs would help.


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## Dubstuning (Nov 1, 2007)

It's the right file. I'll post up a log in just a few here. I've done two others with maestro but never a b6 with return less fuel system.


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## Dubstuning (Nov 1, 2007)

Only used my google drive a few times so here goes. One was before and i think the other after making a slight timing and fueling change. 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1JVFyDe70R0SWFFZmZDS2k1Wms/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1JVFyDe70R0SWFFZmZDS2k1Wms


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

your ignition advance is very late. You are leaving 10-12 degrees on the table at least.

Are you using the correct map to adjust timing? Upload a screen shot of your timing map, and the vvt timing map too.


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## Dubstuning (Nov 1, 2007)

SB_GLI said:


> your ignition advance is very late. You are leaving 10-12 degrees on the table at least.
> 
> Are you using the correct map to adjust timing? Upload a screen shot of your timing map, and the vvt timing map too.


I was using the pump gas timing map. This is the log https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1JVFyDe70R0bGxwNUltdDBKWTQ/view?usp=sharing from this cam timing. 

Cam position one and two maps are untouched at the moment.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

hmm, perhaps maestro is not logging the correct memory location for timing correction factors on this binary. I'd verify by logging with it vcds. Something certainly isn't right based on what's calibrated in your timing tables.

Wait, what's this pump map vs race map nonsense in maestro? There's no such thing in ME7. There one for vvt on and one for vvt off. What does the "race map" have for values in it. Perhaps those are incorrectly defined



Edit: WTH are you doing running 15 second WOT pulls at 2,500-3,500? You looking to melt something?


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

jearbear said:


> I'm not a pro by any means but...
> 
> First - are you using an MBC?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback jearbear. I will run new logs this week, as Arnold at Pag helped me by pointing out that these retarded timing values were due to Switching Active not being checked off in Quick Settings. Once I checked off that box and wrote changes, the car was night and day better. I'm sure I still need to dial things in but it feels soooooo much closer now to where it should be I'll just need to get fresh numbers. I'm amazed that there would be such a feature available that would cause such detrimental performance changes and not be documented or pointed out in any way as part of the new flash process. Very glad Arnold pointed me in the right direction before I pulled my hair out or damaged the motor trying to get the timing to advance properly.

As far as boost control, I am running a brand new OEM N75. The system holds boost without any issue, so I'm thinking it is something else going on causing the gap between requested and actual. Possibly just boost duty needing to be dialed in for my WG actuator(?) At any rate, I bet this issue becomes easier to diagnose once I run some new logs with the timing not acting up like it was. I'll post up again as soon as I have a new log. Thanks again! :thumbup::beer:


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## Dubstuning (Nov 1, 2007)

SB_GLI said:


> hmm, perhaps maestro is not logging the correct memory location for timing correction factors on this binary. I'd verify by logging with it vcds. Something certainly isn't right based on what's calibrated in your timing tables.
> 
> Wait, what's this pump map vs race map nonsense in maestro? There's no such thing in ME7. There one for vvt on and one for vvt off. What does the "race map" have for values in it. Perhaps those are incorrectly defined
> 
> ...


Ill try logging with vcds i have no idea why it isnt logging the correction factors. Ive seen the pump vs race maps before. Apparently you can switch from one to the other in quick tune and maybe the cruise stalk or something. Im not sure how to tell if anything is incorrectly defined or other wise. 

Car was checked out after the run of logs and everything was fine. I dont think i could even have went wot for 15 seconds where i was driving it. Very windy roads but i guess i could have.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

edit... wasn't supposed to be here


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

SB_GLI said:


> There was a fella that posted before your last post in the maestro thread. He said
> 
> "as Arnold at Pag helped me by pointing out that these retarded timing values were due to Switching Active not being checked off in Quick Settings."
> 
> ...


FYI- Switching Active is located in Quick Settings under the Two Step tab. Never heard of this feature before Arnold mentioned it nor would I have ever found it since I'm not running Two Step. Hope this helps!


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## TTime (Jun 20, 2003)

Poody said:


> I have also encountered another problem, where I cant get into boost after a hard shift. I built this car as a daily/drag car, which makes this a really annoying issue. Basically I can make full boost in any gear, but after I run that gear out and shift into the next gear, my throttle only opens to 30%. This also happens if I am part throttle up to about 5000rpm and then go WOT. Any ideas for that?


 I've been having this very same problem unable to find the cause or fix for over a year. I've re-flashed previous tunes and eliminated any wastegate, bov and new 70mm throttlebody failure. Any input to help would be greatly appriciated. I am at a loss of its mechanical or tune related.


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## TTime (Jun 20, 2003)

TTime said:


> Poody said:
> 
> 
> > I have also encountered another problem, where I cant get into boost after a hard shift. I built this car as a daily/drag car, which makes this a really annoying issue. Basically I can make full boost in any gear, but after I run that gear out and shift into the next gear, my throttle only opens to 30%. This also happens if I am part throttle up to about 5000rpm and then go WOT. Any ideas for that?
> ...


No ideas?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

If you guys are running launch control and no lift shift, try turning it off and see if that solves the issue.

I assume this is the VVT active files? I've avoided using those for quirks in the software.


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## TTime (Jun 20, 2003)

Thanks , will give it a shot and disable. Yes also vvt. Fingers crossed, it's so frustrating.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> Thanks for the feedback jearbear. I will run new logs this week, as Arnold at Pag helped me by pointing out that these retarded timing values were due to Switching Active not being checked off in Quick Settings. Once I checked off that box and wrote changes, the car was night and day better. I'm sure I still need to dial things in but it feels soooooo much closer now to where it should be I'll just need to get fresh numbers. I'm amazed that there would be such a feature available that would cause such detrimental performance changes and not be documented or pointed out in any way as part of the new flash process. Very glad Arnold pointed me in the right direction before I pulled my hair out or damaged the motor trying to get the timing to advance properly.
> 
> As far as boost control, I am running a brand new OEM N75. The system holds boost without any issue, so I'm thinking it is something else going on causing the gap between requested and actual. Possibly just boost duty needing to be dialed in for my WG actuator(?) At any rate, I bet this issue becomes easier to diagnose once I run some new logs with the timing not acting up like it was. I'll post up again as soon as I have a new log. Thanks again! :thumbup::beer:


If your not hitting request you may need to adjust the PID. Try bumping up 5% in the area's where your falling short based on RPM. If you overshoot then bring them down. 50% duty may not be enough although I have no clue what your crack pressure is.


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Budsdubbin said:


> If your not hitting request you may need to adjust the PID. Try bumping up 5% in the area's where your falling short based on RPM. If you overshoot then bring them down. 50% duty may not be enough although I have no clue what your crack pressure is.


Thanks for the reply! I've got my fuel pretty damn close and just a few bits of timing to work out but I do still have this boost req issue and appreciate the feedback. I'm boosting over requested down low and pretty well under from mid range on. Hopefully this will get me going the right direction 


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

yeah I would start to drop the PID % when your overshooting based on your logs you shouldn't have to mess with n75 duty.


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

when it comes to the PID map, can that be tuned by tracing a histogram of boost actual and boost requested?


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## jueshen (Apr 4, 2016)

*No Lift Shift*

i hate that the NLS only works on clutch switch, in traffic it sucks
is there no way it can work at on clutch switch and WOT or from desired RPM?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I usually adjust in increments of 5-10% depending on how bad the spike is. Don't over complicate things just adjust in the area's where you overshoot.


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Have a few questions more on the strategy/theory side of things:

-how much deviation should I expect to see in my real time O2 correction numbers? My long term trims (block 032) are within +1% and -3% depending on what kind of driving I'm doing. Most of my real time O2 correction numbers look good, but I have a few isolated oddball 11s, 12s, and even a -21 sometimes in my logs. Is it normal to have anomalies like this in the real time numbers or should I be trying to dial these out?

-similar question regarding timing. I have been tracing my timing using cylinder 4 and have almost all of the timing pull dialed out at this point. I do still have some instances of .75 and 1 degree of pull on cylinder 2 though. I understand cylinder 2 is typically the "noisiest" so curious if I should move on to adapting my timing map based on this or leave it alone writing it off as noise?

Appreciate any thoughts, theories, or advice! :beer:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> Have a few questions more on the strategy/theory side of things:
> 
> -how much deviation should I expect to see in my real time O2 correction numbers? My long term trims (block 032) are within +1% and -3% depending on what kind of driving I'm doing. Most of my real time O2 correction numbers look good, but I have a few isolated oddball 11s, 12s, and even a -21 sometimes in my logs. Is it normal to have anomalies like this in the real time numbers or should I be trying to dial these out?
> 
> ...


I've chased those oddballs for a long time. I would say don't drive yourself nuts. Typically they come about during throttle transitions, off throttle and coming back into throttle. 

As far as timing goes i don't believe you need to eliminate all of the corrections. What i do is typically try to tune timing for driving around town on the hottest days as that's typically the worst case scenario. That way in cooler weather it'll be less likely to correct. I'll allow up to 3* blips during daily driving. If it's constant through multiple cells I'll address it.

After doing that i just reconfirm the things are fine when the weather changes and that's it. Take it from me, I've spent thousands of hours logging, flashing, repeating to try and fix those tiny nuisances. Don't drive yourself nuts.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Look at my log and check my tune for any issues. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w91ya3b2169pnts/AAAl6f_FbbmYNQ6W2b34UpzEa?dl=0


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

please?

Looks good. You are leaving some spool up time on the table if you are using the n75 with that low WGDC during spool up, otherwise it looks badass.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

SB_GLI said:


> please?
> 
> Looks good. You are leaving some spool up time on the table if you are using the n75 with that low WGDC during spool up, otherwise it looks badass.


Please! Yeah external tial with 19psi and turbo smart dual stage boost controller set for 24 psi daily and flip of switch 30psi for race gas and race timing. It is a GTX2867r Pagparts setup. It was 94° out when I did that 3rd gear pull too. Car made 344awhp on slightly less generous dyno in daily mode so not so bad for pump gas and 24psi. The 302awhp was waste gate pressure.































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## Zowexx (Sep 23, 2013)

*engine load confusion*

Hello!
I have a question about the engine load in the maestro 7 software, i cannot get my car to get over 160 ish load.... as u can see on the picture... what can i do to change this or to get the engine to get on full load
My ignition table on E85 down below and this log is 4th @ WOT

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd369/Pontus_Obstfelder/Timing map vs load confusion.png


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

That's your race timing map for both images!


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## Zowexx (Sep 23, 2013)

Yes but why won't my engine go to the cells beneath load 216?


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## carrolltoncorrado (Aug 8, 2002)

Hello!

I am running the AWP ev14 1000cc file. I have no check engine lights but cannot get long term fuel trim to adapt. Always at zero.

I am running no MAF and have the uro tuning resistor set for n80 n75 etc.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Zowexx said:


> Yes but why won't my engine go to the cells beneath load 216?


Because you don't have enough load to get it into those blocks. What is your setup?


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## Zowexx (Sep 23, 2013)

WiKKiDTT said:


> Because you don't have enough load to get it into those blocks. What is your setup?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


1.8t AJQ bottom end
Ported AGU head 

Brute IX rods 20mm wrist pin with rifle drilling
Wieseco 81.5mm 8:5.1 cr pistons
King main bearings
King rod bearings 
Supertech Incolonell valves
Tubular race exhaust manifold vbanded
Garrett 3071r with arnolds v2 comp wheel and ppt .72 exhaust housing
turbosmart 45 wastegate
Home made plenum intake manifold with 70mm TB
3" turboback no cat and 1 muffler


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## Zowexx (Sep 23, 2013)

I have more than enough blocks but how do I do the get the engine to log there?


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Post your tune. The reason your not in those blocks is because your engine doesn't have enough load to hit them. Dropbox link is the best way


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## WilboBaggins (Mar 16, 2012)

*Accelerator Pedal Map? Engine sluggish until 2,000 RPM*

So I'm looking for help or advice about an issue I've been experiencing with my car for awhile now. Basically, the car is very sluggish until exactly 2,000 RPM regardless of the gear. It's not totally bogged down, but it is difficult to take off from a start without riding the clutch somewhat. The problem is only exacerbated with the A/C on. It doesn't matter if it's 1st or 5th gear while cruising, you can feel and hear the difference in the engine at exactly 2,000 RPM every single time. It's like the car comes to life at 2,000 RPM but until then it will barely build any boost. If I floor it it, I can build a little bit of boost and then at 2,000 RPM it goes to full WOT.

I assume this is because the tune was designed to keep boost levels low until 2,000 RPM so you don't bend a rod. I noticed my Unitronics stage 2 tune did this too, and the Eurodyne Stage 2 that I'm running does it but not as severely.

Car is a 2004 Jetta AWP 5-speed with standard bolt-ons. Runs and drivers great. No vacuum leaks. 22 psi at peak boost and idles smoothly at -19hg. I drove for a week or two with most of these bolt-ons before getting a tune and did not appear to have this problem so I think it is only dependent with the tune.

I'm a notice with Eurodyne Maestro and haven't done anything except load the stock Stage 2 AWP 4bar FPR tune and raised the idle slightly. I thought maybe my accelerator pedal map was to blame, but when I loaded it, it appeared normal and showed 100% all the way across the 100% pedal position. I'm nervous to mess around with it too much. I noticed I can input values about 100, so I'm not sure if I can do this for the lower than 2,000 RPM area in order to give it some pick up in this RPM Range. Below is a SS of the accelerator pedal map. Any and all advice on this issue would be much appreciated! It's hard to drive around town with the A/C on and it's difficult to take off from a start. I'm afraid I'm going to fry my clutch because I have to ride it so long to get the car moving at a decent rate. Thank you!


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## WilboBaggins (Mar 16, 2012)

After doing some more researching and digging around, I think the sudden "jolt" in throttle at 2,000 RPM may be caused by the Boost Duty Map more than anything. The Stage 2 base tune has very low percentages before 2,000 RPM and then immediately jumps a lot of percentages at 2,000 RPM. So I played around a little bit with that, making things more linear but keeping similar low and high TPS values. Below is the stock Boost Duty Map vs the one I made. I haven't tested it yet, but would love to get some feedback. I've seen a few boost duty maps that are similar and a few that are different as well. Again, it's a K03S turbo with standard bolt ons and a 4bar FPR. Once I'm confident that this map is generally correct, I'll do some logging to see where I'm at and hopefully turn to this thread for some advance about refining it further.


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## blind (Nov 26, 1999)

Anyone have issues with Maestro7 not opening after an update?


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## WilboBaggins (Mar 16, 2012)

I did and I had to upgrade my NET Framework and it then opened fine.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Anyone else having maestro and the flasher take forever to start up?


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

I can't remember my damn password, sucks when you don't use it very often


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## WilboBaggins (Mar 16, 2012)

Can't you just make a new username and password? I don't think your account is tied to your ECU/cable or anything. When I set mine up it was just like making a free account anywhere else and then gave me access to the programs.

Bumping to try to get some help/advice on the Boost Duty Map too!


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

You shouldn't really be modifying KFLDLR (boost duty map) all that much for a K03. Your k03 won't make boost until after 2,500rpm anyway, so this table likely has nothing to do with your issue.

For a k03, you should stick with almost stock values in both KFLDLR and KFLDIMX. DIMX can be raised a few point in the last column to get boost stable.

Also, what you have listed as "Stock" really isn't stock either. This is maestro's modified table (which I think is wrong to begin with, but let's not go there)

Once you have boost actual lining up pretty close with requested on WOT, then you can slightly modify KFLDRL to "linearize" or smooth out the boost profile.


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## WilboBaggins (Mar 16, 2012)

THANK YOU for your response. I was afraid no one was ever going to respond.

Yes, I didn't mean stock, but "unmolested" Stage 2 Eurodyne. It's weird how the map is so uneven. Like for the 10% TPS, it is 10, 10, 10, and then all of a sudden at 2,000 RPM it jumps to 30%. I don't know what else would explain why the car's throttle is so bogged down until exactly 2,000 RPM in any gear, and then sudden comes to life...

I wish I had an actual stock file to play with and see what values are used. I contacted Chris (or Eurodyne at least), but he only responded with "where did you buy this?." After I told him I bought it used, he has yet to respond. I guess customer support is only for those paying full retail through a vendor... 

What map/value is DIMX by the way?


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Here is a pic of my throttle map, make sure to note that 3D map is backwards, 0% throttle is all the way to the right. This tuning is pretty progressive and responsive, and should at least be a good place to start :thumbup:


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## WilboBaggins (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks very much! I'll compare it to what the Stage 2 tune looks like (I remember it being more "blocky"). Is this for a K03(s) or does it not really matter? Just starting to dip my toe into these uncharted waters...


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Full bolt-on 225TT (ko4-023, wide-band, VVT). I'm not sure if it matters since we both currently have peashooter turbos.


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## k00ldip (Mar 18, 2013)

Gurus help!!!!
So I installed my set up on my old stock engine just to fit in right before the new engine went in..... and it ran fine. "630cc maffless file"
With exception of throttle body been stock.

Here's my current setup 
1.9 bore stock stroke
Gt30
2.7 piping and 3" intercooler 
50mm tial bov
R32 throttle body 
Apikol style intake manifold 
630cc injectors 
Dw65v intank pump
Hks ebc

Deleted stuff
Maf
Boost sensor 
All evap components
N75
Air temp sensor "not sure it is, located next to throttle"

Like I said car ran fine with stock throttle.

Looking for someone to guide me get this done thanks

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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

So you deleted the MAP sensor and air temp sensor and wonder why it's not running right?

Car will never run with everything deleted. You need to restore those and change the airflow tables for the larger throttle body. Particularly Alpha N and Throttle angle vs airflow.


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## k00ldip (Mar 18, 2013)

Thanks I appreciate this info will add map and air temp

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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

WilboBaggins said:


> What map/value is DIMX by the way?


"Boost PID"


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Hoping one of you guys can point me in the right direction by taking a look at these logs and/or my file. I still can't seem to get my boost actual to meet boost specified. Mostly this happens above 4k and/or at WOT, as below 4k at partial throttle I tend to meet or sometimes exceed boost specified. 

I have tried playing around with minor changes to both boost PID and boost duty. You'll see in my file I bumped PID above 4k by about 10% Am I just being too timid with my adjustments or do you think I maybe have an issue elsewhere? I've ruled out a mechanical issue by hooking up a basic MBC temporarily and can achieve desired boost levels that way. I would just prefer to dial this in with the N75. 

Totally open to any observations you have with the file. I'm still learning as I go and have only made basic tweaks to fuel and timing so far.

Really appreciate you guys and all the help so far :beer:

My file

Log 1

Log 2

Log 3

Setup:
-PAG vband mani w GT2871R
-Bosch Motorsport 630cc injectors @ 3bar
-TT225 MAF (housing and sensor)


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## k00ldip (Mar 18, 2013)

Has anyone had their ecu locked by eurodyne? ??? Mine did after flash (yes it was the right base file, no is not immobilizer) obd2 won't communicate to pcm but it will with comfort module.

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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

k00ldip said:


> Has anyone had their ecu locked by eurodyne? ??? Mine did after flash (yes it was the right base file, no is not immobilizer) obd2 won't communicate to pcm but it will with comfort module.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk


I initially had issues communicating after my first "flash" but ended up that I was not actually flashing at all bc the ECU had a soldered on APR chip. Was your car ever tuned or flashed previously? Fix for me was buying another ECU 


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## k00ldip (Mar 18, 2013)

I just found out that it's bricked and I wonder if a base file can be use as recovery while boot mode

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## Joel A3 (Aug 13, 2016)

Hey guys, Im new to the forum. I have been doing some research on this thread trying to find something similar to what is happening to me, but so far nothing.

I own a 06 A3 with 2.0tFSI BPY, F23 turbocharger, with the 8P0 ecu and Maestro software. Ever since I flashed the base map, the boost has been acting up. N75 duty map states 77% duty for 100% tps, but actual duty is lower in the 50's% and in the upper RPM's it starts spiking.

This is a third gear pull with the base map logg.










I did play with the PID maps, but didn't really get nowhere. So I emailed chris asking if boost could be run directly from the boost duty map while shutting off the PID's. His response was as following:

"If you set requested boost and load high enough, then it will run the duty at the top of the boost duty map."

Now as for the boost requested, it seems its already set to the maximum capability of the map, since it requests 22psi all accros WOT (so far ive noticed that this cant be altered). The specified load tho, I cant seem to also alter this value. Tried by raising the values of "MaxVE" and "Target Filling", but this had no effect.

Another third gear pull with "MaxVE" and "Target Filling" values raised. Same conditions as previous logg.










Anybody has had an issue like this before that could shime in? Emaild chris about this, but no response.

Trobleshooting so far done:
-smoke tested, no leaks
-tps working propperly ans 100% all across WOT
-map working properly
-maf readings are good
-O2 brand new, lambda is on spot.
-tried two new n75, same issue
-fuel pressures are good (pumps and module are new, press. sens. are new)

BPY engine with 8P0 ecu Maestro tabs are as following (they differ a bit from 1.8t's and even other ecu's for BPY engine):


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> Hoping one of you guys can point me in the right direction by taking a look at these logs and/or my file. I still can't seem to get my boost actual to meet boost specified. Mostly this happens above 4k and/or at WOT, as below 4k at partial throttle I tend to meet or sometimes exceed boost specified.


You probably need more DC to achieve the boost you desire. WGDC is capped around 80%. You probably have a lot more work to do to get boost control close.

Also, fuel goes pig rich after 4,500rpm and does not follow requested. MAF and injectors correctly calibrated?


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

Joel A3 said:


> Hey guys, Im new to the forum. I have been doing some research on this thread trying to find something similar to what is happening to me, but so far nothing.
> 
> I own a 06 A3 with 2.0tFSI BPY, F23 turbocharger, with the 8P0 ecu and Maestro software. Ever since I flashed the base map, the boost has been acting up. N75 duty map states 77% duty for 100% tps, but actual duty is lower in the 50's% and in the upper RPM's it starts spiking.


Base map is just that... a base. Like my previous response, you probably have a lot of work to do on the boost duty/pid tables to get your FT to boost correctly. The other issue you will find is that you don't have access to all the PID tables necessary to get that turbo react correctly (specifically the D term (Q2))


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

SB_GLI said:


> You probably need more DC to achieve the boost you desire. WGDC is capped around 80%. You probably have a lot more work to do to get boost control close.
> 
> Also, fuel goes pig rich after 4,500rpm and does not follow requested. MAF and injectors correctly calibrated?


Appreciate the feedback. I've had my WGDC up above .8 in those areas to tweak but sounds like there's more to it to bring that under control.

Regarding the fuel, I've run one trace over a long drive on the injectors but haven't done any work with the MAF. Is there a way to calibrate this manually? I have the correct MAF for the file but it may be worth looking at due to another issue. Car has a pretty rough warmup idle where it hunts between * and - 6 O2 correction. If I unplug the MAF it will even out the idle until up to operating temp. Originally thought I'd dial in the file for while it's running to see if that goes away but you might be onto something. 


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

What MAF are you using? It really appears as though the MAF calibration is the culprit.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

SB_GLI said:


> What MAF are you using? It really appears as though the MAF calibration is the culprit.


I see from above now. Here's one thing you want to check out. I had this problem in the past. The 225TT's came with two different MAFs, make sure you have the MAF from the wideband 225TT. The narrowband 225TT is similar enough to make the car not run like absolute garbage, yet different enough to cause fueling issues at part and WOT...

Personally, I would use the stock sensor in the 225tt housing and calibrate for that to make sure.

Always, fueling and MAF first... everything else after.


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

SB_GLI said:


> I see from above now. Here's one thing you want to check out. I had this problem in the past. The 225TT's came with two different MAFs, make sure you have the MAF from the wideband 225TT. The narrowband 225TT is similar enough to make the car not run like absolute garbage, yet different enough to cause fueling issues at part and WOT...
> 
> Personally, I would use the stock sensor in the 225tt housing and calibrate for that to make sure.
> 
> Always, fueling and MAF first... everything else after.


I'm actually using the wideband version. Bosch part sensor and housing. I've still got a stock housing and sensor that I could use and maybe try that profile just as a quick sanity check? 


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Little follow up on this before I start playing around. Was planning on swapping my AWP sensor in today to see if I have any better luck. Before doing so, I confirmed being on the correct Flowmeter profile and checked out my MAF correction map from the file I'm on. Looks like this file has a decent amount of correction in both my trouble areas: idle and high load above 4500 rpm. With that, would it be a bad move for me to flatten the MAF correction map and then dial it in for my specific setup? If I were to do so, what would I be looking at to determine what the correction should be?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Anyone able to get the Ecu to target something other than Stoich on part throttle on the VVT files? 

Tried a bunch of stuff but nothing seems to be working.


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> Little follow up on this before I start playing around. Was planning on swapping my AWP sensor in today to see if I have any better luck. Before doing so, I confirmed being on the correct Flowmeter profile and checked out my MAF correction map from the file I'm on. Looks like this file has a decent amount of correction in both my trouble areas: idle and high load above 4500 rpm. With that, would it be a bad move for me to flatten the MAF correction map and then dial it in for my specific setup? If I were to do so, what would I be looking at to determine what the correction should be?


Updating here, as I reflashed the car after having set my Flowmeter Correction to 1.0001 across the board. That seems to have cured my warmup idle issue, so thinking we are on the right track here.

Doing this sort of set off a lightbulb in my head that might change my approach to getting the fuel tuned in. This may be obvious for the more advanced users on here, but figured I'd get your feedback in case this is beneficial to people trying to figure this out for the first time like I am.

This exercise makes me believe that these box maps are only really useful if your setup is pretty much whatever Eurodyne used to establish them. Since I am running Bosch injectors with dramatically different characteristics than the Siemens injectors that these maps appear to be based on, I'm thinking that I should go with a similar approach of flattening my main fuel correction and injection correction before making adjustments (?) Previously I was adjusting my BVC and IC driving the car on the box correction maps. I'm thinking maybe part of my problem with the fuel is that I've been dialing everything in relative to those maps which have little to no relevance to my car. I'm thinking I should do something like the following:

1) flatten Main Fuel and Injection Correction to 1 across the board
2) dial in BVC and IC values as closely as possible
3) log and adjust injection correction as needed.

Is this good practice, or am I just making things up through my ignorance? Appreciate all your help learning my way through this :beer::thumbup:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

That's how I tune. I zero out all the maps, set the BVC to manufacturer specs and then dial in the injector constant to the best start position. Then fine tune the fueling maps by driving around town, as well as full throttle runs in different gears. 

While most swear by tuning injector correction table only, I use the main fuel corrections table. It works better for me.


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

spartiati said:


> That's how I tune. I zero out all the maps, set the BVC to manufacturer specs and then dial in the injector constant to the best start position. Then fine tune the fueling maps by driving around town, as well as full throttle runs in different gears.
> 
> While most swear by tuning injector correction table only, I use the main fuel corrections table. It works better for me.


Appreciate the feedback. I tried this before coming into work this morning. Figured my IC would be way off due to setting based on box correction maps, but overall looks like I'm in even better shape already. My previous block 032 trims were 0.8% and -4 %. Now I'm at -1.9 % and 1.6% over a similar length drive. 

I'll see how much closer I can get this with IC adjustments. Hopefully this squares away the fuel properly.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I also open up the file and log within maestro and play the entire log within the main fuel table. I select the "average" setting and then I can see what's happening at each individual cell. Then make global changes via this injector constant. Once that's taken care of go in and modify each individual cell to tailor it to your setup.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

As long as your within 5% your good. Below 3% is great. You'll keep chasing your tail trying to get it any better. Fuel quality, air temp, humidity have to do with it as well


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

WiKKiDTT said:


> As long as your within 5% your good. Below 3% is great. You'll keep chasing your tail trying to get it any better. Fuel quality, air temp, humidity have to do with it as well
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Appreciate the feedback guys. I was going to ask how close I should realistically expect to get before tweaking correction maps. I was never able to get a 1.anything before on my trims without overshooting and ending up on the other side of zero. Sounds like I should be happy with these numbers as trims and move to making my own fuel corrections now that I've flattened it(?) 


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

spartiati said:


> I also open up the file and log within maestro and play the entire log within the main fuel table. I select the "average" setting and then I can see what's happening at each individual cell. Then make global changes via this injector constant. Once that's taken care of go in and modify each individual cell to tailor it to your setup.


That's what I had done previously but didn't realize that it was fundamentally flawed doing that off the box correction maps. My trims were decent before but I had some high O2 correction numbers, probably compensating for those maps.

Did a short log going home today just to see where I am in a variety of conditions and my O2 correction numbers were single digits. I do still have a few spots of .76 lambda when it's wanting .8 but thinking I'm much closer now for going back and tweaking corrections. Other than that I'm pretty much within .03 lambda everywhere 


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

When you start modifying the specific cells you ideally want a nice long log. Especially if you are tuning city driving. Thankfully there is a closed down airport to me so I drive the car there and take it through the gears at different throttle inputs, starting at different rpms. 

With full throttle runs I'll do something similar where I'll start off and use different boost levels to get into different load areas of the map. Ex: wastegate, 15psi, 18psi, 22psi. Starting at different rpms and take it through 2nd-4th full throttle. 

Once you have a nice long log, sometimes you have to stitch the multiple logs into one continuous file, load it into maestro and let it play through in the main tuning map. I'll individually adjust the cells based on the final "average" correction. Rinse and repeat. 

After doing this several times I have a solid tune in terms of corrections. I tend to keep everything in the -5% - 0% correction. 

The key is long logs, different loads, patience and repeating.


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

So you just mentioned something I've been having some trouble with. When I run long logs, it appears that a new file is created every 9-10 minutes or so and only the first of these files will load successfully into Maestro. You mentioned stitching the logs into one file- is this what you were referring to and if so how do you go about doing that?

I've tried copying and pasting the values in excel to make a complete log but as soon as I save a new file that way it won't work in Maestro. What I've been doing in the meantime is trying to put together the most meaningful 10 minutes I can, but obviously that can be fairly constraining if any amount of traffic is involved.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I open the initial log file and then copy and paste each subsequent log into the original. Save it and keep the same formatting. You have to have the log closed before loading it into maestro. Otherwise it'll throw an error code when loading.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

spartiati said:


> Anyone able to get the Ecu to target something other than Stoich on part throttle on the VVT files?
> 
> Tried a bunch of stuff but nothing seems to be working.


TABGBTS and FBSTABGM are likely different from other files and causing no BTS enrich until a certain temp. You probably don't have access to those maps in maestro. I can probably patch it for you.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

SB_GLI said:


> TABGBTS and FBSTABGM are likely different from other files and causing no BTS enrich until a certain temp. You probably don't have access to those maps in maestro. I can probably patch it for you.


I'll shoot you an email as soon as I get home. As always, very much appreciate the help!


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## Aviaa25 (Jan 18, 2014)

Is there an option to add maps to maestro?

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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Aviaa25 said:


> Is there an option to add maps to maestro?
> 
> Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


If you know the map you want added, you can email Eurodyne and request it. With that said, I wouldn't be too optimistic that they would do it.


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## Aviaa25 (Jan 18, 2014)

I'll ask again
Is there option to add map without request it from eurodyne?


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## cerealcookie (May 22, 2016)

*eurodyne maestro*

alright everyone im new to these threads. i have a 2001 audi tt 225. justpt a cts turbo big turbo kit with a gt2871r and 630cc injectors and got aftermarket rods put in so i can go up to 400hp. i have eurodyne maestro and i have the stage 3 630cc injectors flashed to the ecu. im not familiar with the programsat all and id like to know what i can do to modify somethings for more performance. right now im pushing 24psi boost. im looking to get my car as fast asposible with the things i have done to it so far. any help with the eurodyne maestro program or recomendations on what i should do would be awesome!


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

*Car dies when shifting to neutral for coasting to a traffic light*

It is a mafless AWP, 70 mm throttle body, SEM manifold base file, 630cc.
MB032 is close to 3%, both idle & part throttle.
Still, it will die if shifted to neutral from say 2000rpm. It will not die if revs drop close to 1000rpm before shifting in neutral, but will oscillate 500-1200 before dropping to idle 820rpm.
Is there a map to take care of this (as KFMRESK = "idle torque with clutch pressed") and how should it be tweaked to get rid of this annoing behaviour?
Can anyone help?


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## luchos (Feb 23, 2012)

Anyone know where I can find a file for 2.1 stroker, iecva1 cams, ie intake manifold, hemi tb and pte5857? Currently running genesis II 1000's injectors and the 1000cc sem manifold maestro base file. I am finishing putting the engine back together and would love to drive the car to a tuner since there are none in the Midwest.


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## k00ldip (Mar 18, 2013)

Does anyone have a file to start with my r32 throttle body? ?? I'm 1.9t bore gt30 on 630cc 

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## BuckyN (Sep 6, 2016)

Hi guys New member here. Been reading forum for quite a while but never felt the need to actually register, but now I think this is time for me to ask for help.

Car is a 2002 A4 B6 with the Following:
Forged rods ( actually it's a AWP engine with forged rods that was in a BT etta that went stroker )
GTX3071R T25 with Pagparts Bottom mount manifold
FMIC
INA 040 Drop in fuel pump
630cc injectors

Running on slightly modified base file from the database
car runs relatively well, but if it boosts more than 23 psi ( it does it below but only minor ), there is a "hole" between 4000 and 5000 rpm, car misfires bogs and shake. as soon as it goes past 5000 it goes well and strong. A/f goes in extreme lean condition during this, so I would guess that it is related but my knowledge of the system is basic, and I can't see wich map or wich parameter would affect the behavior of the car that bad for only 1000rpm.

I can provide log and exact file for anyone that could lend me a hand with this!!

thanks in advance guys


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

BuckyN said:


> Hi guys New member here. Been reading forum for quite a while but never felt the need to actually register, but now I think this is time for me to ask for help.
> 
> Car is a 2002 A4 B6 with the Following:
> Forged rods ( actually it's a AWP engine with forged rods that was in a BT etta that went stroker )
> ...


I'm still very new at Maestro, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm guessing though that you may be having that problem because the stock MAP sensor only goes up to 22psi. There are several threads that discuss ways around that, but I have not personally dealt with it myself. Perhaps try dropping your Max VE to some point below 22psi and see if you run without issues. If so, I bet that's your problem.


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Do any of you guys have tips or best practices for adjusting acceleration and deceleration fuel maps? 

I decided to start my file over from the beginning, setting all my corrections to 1.0001 and dropping my max VE down LOW and try to get this fuel sorted from the bottom up. I have my BVC and IC dialed in pretty well and the car is following requested Lambda in most conditions. However the car goes extremely rich when I roll out of the throttle (all the way to .75 lambda in most cases). This happens only in transients; not when I get off the throttle all together, so I'm thinking this probably has to do with the deceleration map. 

I've read in some threads where it is recommended to adjust the whole map up or down by percentages. Is this the best way to go or is there another way?

thanks as always :beer:


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> Do any of you guys have tips or best practices for adjusting acceleration and deceleration fuel maps?
> 
> I decided to start my file over from the beginning, setting all my corrections to 1.0001 and dropping my max VE down LOW and try to get this fuel sorted from the bottom up. I have my BVC and IC dialed in pretty well and the car is following requested Lambda in most conditions. However the car goes extremely rich when I roll out of the throttle (all the way to .75 lambda in most cases). This happens only in transients; not when I get off the throttle all together, so I'm thinking this probably has to do with the deceleration map.
> 
> ...


 Below on the left is the deceleration fuel map that I've been running. On the right is a deceleration fuel map from the VVT version of the 630cc file. Is there any reason that these are so different? I get that a newer file may have an updated map but these curves don't even go the same direction, nor are they even close to the same scale. Am I taking crazy pills?


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## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

Anyone interested and helping me tune. I am having some trouble getting my Throttle angle vs airflow map going. I get a lot of 99's in places there shouldn't be. I am doing one map at a time and can't get passed this map.
1.8T
BBT 418T, K16 turbine mated to a 9 bladed compressor. Easily does 30+, that was a bad day.
Badger 5 Exhaust Manifold matched to the turbo
SEM Manifold
70mm TB
G2 630cc double foggers
Madmax DV
Truck Coils
IE Intake Cam
AEB Cylinder Head
3in TB
AWIC

I need to replace injector o-rings as they are leaking in vacuum.


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## Arsin (Apr 4, 2008)

I know I've asked this before and it was buried. 

Is there a way to control boost by gear through Eurodyne/Maestro?


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## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

Just got my car hooked up to maestro first time since 2010. Am I able to save my ecu' current tune. It was originally on my old laptop which is toast. I see in the flash it says read ecu(when instructed by Eurodyne). i did the read ecu and saved but trying to open it in maestro it said it wasn't the right file type. 

Update : I ended up just starting over with a new tune  I have some work to do too it runs a lot different.


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## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

Anybody have best advice for a starting tune. I'm on 630cc injectors and just modified my intake manifold for an 80mm throttle body.
I see the only tune he has for 80 is 1000cc injectors but I dont know if I should start with that and adjust fuel or start with one of the 630 maps and go from there


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

vwturbowolf said:


> Anybody have best advice for a starting tune. I'm on 630cc injectors and just modified my intake manifold for an 80mm throttle body.
> I see the only tune he has for 80 is 1000cc injectors but I dont know if I should start with that and adjust fuel or start with one of the 630 maps and go from there


I would try it both ways. I've been learning maestro over the summer and tried a few different versions of the 630 base files plus trying the EV14 file and adapting to 630cc and have honestly found no rhyme or reason for why some files work better on my car than another 


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

I'd start with the correct TB and just change the injector using the injector wizard that's built in and just start tweaking it


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## vwturbowolf (Nov 28, 2003)

WiKKiDTT said:


> I'd start with the correct TB and just change the injector using the injector wizard that's built in and just start tweaking it
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think this is what I'm gonna do. I'd rather stick with my current injectors . I have no need to go to 1000cc as my goal for changing the throttle body was to add a little bit of power for me to lower the boost 1-2 psi and still be in the same hp.

Thanks man


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Got a problem. My 02 corrections at WOT past about 5000rpm shoot up to 18 and then taper down to 7 by 8000rpm. I hit max boost at 3800rpm and my afr is spot on to my defined full load lambda. And looking thru my logs I have never had a issue like this before. Anyone have any insight on to what's happening. I'll post logs tomm. Along with my current file

My 02 corrections before that are +/- 2% cruising or at wot. And block 32 is 1% and 2%


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

Fuel pressure in check? MAF readings okay?


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## Cookiez (Apr 7, 2014)

Where did the eurodyne forum go?

ive found some links to how to's etc on the eurodyne forum, but it seems to be gone?


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

Cookiez said:


> Where did the eurodyne forum go?
> 
> ive found some links to how to's etc on the eurodyne forum, but it seems to be gone?


It's been superseded by nefmoto.


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

SB_GLI said:


> It's been superseded by nefmoto.


wow, that was fast i never even saw that forum...... was it getting much traffic?


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## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

*n-Heptane value 0.684 is for what octane?*

I'm doing the calculation for KRKTE (injector constant) and using what seems to be a standard value for n-Heptane at 0.684 g/cc. For my stock 317 cc/min injectors at 5 bar, I calculate 0.07998 with that value, which of course gets changed a bit to fit the hex numbers.

For what octane is that value valid? I'm assuming US 93. With only 91 what value should I be using?


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## Cookiez (Apr 7, 2014)

SB_GLI said:


> It's been superseded by nefmoto.


If you want to use nefmoto, yes.
If you want to use Maestro 7 no?


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## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

BTW, Anyone have a map for an AWP, TT225 MAF for a F21 in M7 - with working cruise control? Please! 

After I had to replace my ECU, I tried again with the updated VVT AWP_G2VVT_Stage3_EV14_550cc_FrankenturboF21_VR6Maf Housing base map, and it does not work. Yes it shows a G in the coding.

BTW, it's not a hardware problem as the cruise on this stock ECU, unlocked, worked just fine.


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## Cookiez (Apr 7, 2014)

What happens if i swap clusters?

Will i be able to drive the car, but not do changes?
Would i be able to do changes?

Would i get any codes?

ecu is immo defeated, cluster is immo3


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

hallkbrd said:


> I'm doing the calculation for KRKTE (injector constant) and using what seems to be a standard value for n-Heptane at 0.684 g/cc. For my stock 317 cc/min injectors at 5 bar, I calculate 0.07998 with that value, which of course gets changed a bit to fit the hex numbers.
> 
> For what octane is that value valid? I'm assuming US 93. With only 91 what value should I be using?


you don't modify krkte for different octane levels. You would modify krkte if you need to change base injection time... so a change in injector size (or fpr) or fuel type (Gas vs E85). E85 requires ~30-40% more fuel than gasoline for the same lambda.



Cookiez said:


> If you want to use nefmoto, yes.
> If you want to use Maestro 7 no?


You realize that Maestro is just a (un)friendly GUI wrapper around the same thing, yeah? All the information on nef is relevant to tuning in Maestro.


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## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

SB_GLI said:


> you don't modify krkte for different octane levels. You would modify krkte if you need to change base injection time... so a change in injector size (or fpr) or fuel type (Gas vs E85). E85 requires ~30-40% more fuel than gasoline for the same lambda.
> 
> I understand that it is the injector time constant, but the formula I found included the n-Heptane value as part of the equation which as the octane ratio changes, I thought did as well. Of course, it is very possible I might have misunderstood something and am completely wrong. I assume most people just use injector correction to adjust for octane (which I did). What I used was:
> 
> 50.2624 * ( displacement 1.781 liters / #cyl (4) ) / ( Flow Rate g/min (409.09) * n-Heptane g/cc (0.684) ) = 0.07998


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## Cookiez (Apr 7, 2014)

SB_GLI said:


> You realize that Maestro is just a (un)friendly GUI wrapper around the same thing, yeah? All the information on nef is relevant to tuning in Maestro.


Yes, but not all questions are related to the specific maps, there are questions about the software etc etc. And if you say maestro 7 at nefmoto they dont seem to eager to help 

and a shameless bump of my software related question:

What happens if i swap clusters?

Will i be able to drive the car, but not do changes?
Would i be able to do changes?

Would i get any codes?

ecu is immo defeated, cluster is immo3


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Hey all, figured I'd get this thread going again. I'm starting a new file going back to basics with everything I've learned over the last summer/fall, and as part of that want to address an issue I have with oscillating O2 corrections during warmup. It starts to happen once the car kicks into closed loop following startup and will oscillate between positive and negative O2 correction, getting closer and closer to 0 as it gets closer to operating temperature. This happens with and without the MAF plugged in. Once I get to operating temp, my idle fuel trims are dead on and the car runs really well.

At first I was suspecting *warmup fuel correction* or this other map that's only on the Gen 1 files, *After Start Enrichment*, but on another page someone suggested I first check my injector and MAF calibration by seeing what my corrections were with the MAF plugged in and unplugged. That revealed that while my trims with the MAF plugged in were good, my trims without it were terrible. I dialed my no MAF trims in at idle using BVC and now have my trims with or without MAF close to zero. That seemed to improve the overall running of the car, but I still have this warmup oscillation.

Any ideas? I'm using the Bosch Motorsport EV14 630cc injectors (# 0280158123) @3bar. As part of this "start over" file, I have my Main Fuel, Injection Correction, and Flowmeter Correction all set to 1.0001 to ensure those are not interfering with anything. Appreciate any advice! :beer::thumbup:


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## Nesho (Dec 5, 2007)

Hello guys,

Im new to Maestro and was hoping if someone could take a look at my log file and point me in right direction. What i have done so far is following; I chose base file closest to my setup possible. Then i scaled my injectors to proper side. I also chose right MAF sensor to get the car to run. When i tried it the first time it was running very rich once from 3000 rpsm on. I then reduced the fuel from 3000 rpms on in main fuel correction table by 10% increments until i got car to run smooth. Right now i have it to the point where it would run and hit boost properly but it seams like its not making as much power as it should. 

Here is my latest log.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2w6QB9oBwbhLWl2V3E3NEVxSTQ

Here is my setup.
2003 VW Passat
GTX3071R Garrett turbo
VR6 MAF
3"hot side to 2.5" cold side intercooler
2.7T S4 TB
IE Intake Manifold
750 EV14 injectors
4Bar FPR
In tank high flow fuel pump.
Autotech intake cam
AEB Head

Other than main fuel trim to get the car running i havent adjusted anything. What is the next thing i should try?

Your help is much appreciated while i try and learn this thing.


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## Nesho (Dec 5, 2007)

Nesho said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> Im new to Maestro and was hoping if someone could take a look at my log file and point me in right direction. What i have done so far is following; I chose base file closest to my setup possible. Then i scaled my injectors to proper side. I also chose right MAF sensor to get the car to run. When i tried it the first time it was running very rich once from 3000 rpsm on. I then reduced the fuel from 3000 rpms on in main fuel correction table by 10% increments until i got car to run smooth. Right now i have it to the point where it would run and hit boost properly but it seams like its not making as much power as it should.
> 
> ...


Anyone?


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Nesho said:


> Anyone?


I'll check the log when I get back from Wookies. How is your BVC calibration? I would get everything looking good at idle first before worrying about everything else 


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## Nesho (Dec 5, 2007)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> I'll check the log when I get back from Wookies. How is your BVC calibration? I would get everything looking good at idle first before worrying about everything else
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for looking at it for me!

Idle is almost perfect. It stays right around 14.7. I did change injectors constant from 725cc base file to calibrate to mine 750cc.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Battery voltage compensation.

Not afr 

Rios information comes with your injectors, or should

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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

*this

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## Nesho (Dec 5, 2007)

Vegeta Gti said:


> Battery voltage compensation.
> 
> Not afr
> 
> ...


Ah, ok. I did not get any information with my injectors. There was no spec sheets in the package at all. Is there a way to find that out?

This is what the file is set for currently.
8v-1.534
10v - 1.021
12v - 0.752
14v - 0.603 
16v - 0.501


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Nesho said:


> Ah, ok. I did not get any information with my injectors. There was no spec sheets in the package at all. Is there a way to find that out?
> 
> This is what the file is set for currently.
> 8v-1.534
> ...


Contact the person who sold you the injectors and ask for it. If they don't have it, there is a big EV14 thread on NefMoto with a lot of calibration sheets. Just make sure you are looking at one for the same part number as what you have. 

Are you running a Gen2 file set up for the EV14s? Some of those aren't a bad start for BVC numbers. Just make sure you get them dialed in at idle first before moving on to the rest 


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

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## Nesho (Dec 5, 2007)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> Contact the person who sold you the injectors and ask for it. If they don't have it, there is a big EV14 thread on NefMoto with a lot of calibration sheets. Just make sure you are looking at one for the same part number as what you have.
> 
> Are you running a Gen2 file set up for the EV14s? Some of those aren't a bad start for BVC numbers. Just make sure you get them dialed in at idle first before moving on to the rest
> 
> ...


Yea i will have to call 034 motorsport. The sheets i have seen on NefMoto have slightly higher numbers than what i have posted above. I will have to see what the part number is on injector to make sure.

Thanks!


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## DeckerVW (Oct 21, 2016)

*70mm throttle body issue.*

I asked this on the main tech forum but figured I would put it here in hopes of getting more help.

OK my Setup is
AWP head port and polished as close to AEB as I can get it.
Autotech intake cam
Integrated large port manifold.
GTX 3071r Big turbo. (ATP eliminator kit)
630cc injectors.
running s4 maf..
upgraged internals.

Running on maestro 7

had a 70mm throttle body for a while just not on the car. So lastnight at work decided to take my manifold off and drill and tap for the 70mm throttle body. put it all together. The car starts but runs super lean at idle...tried messing with fuel adjustments nothing...tried to copy the alpha n and throttle maps over from another base tune for a 70mm....and still idles lean...
no air leaks (I smoke tested the entire system) and my taps where good..
long story short...I put the stock throttle body back on reloaded my tune...and she fires right up and idles fine, dead on A/F ratios. So what is up? why cant I get the 70mm throttle body to run fine with maestro? 
Anyone able to point me in the right direction as far as tuning this thing?


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## Nesho (Dec 5, 2007)

DeckerVW said:


> I asked this on the main tech forum but figured I would put it here in hopes of getting more help.
> 
> OK my Setup is
> AWP head port and polished as close to AEB as I can get it.
> ...


Might be a dumb question but did you do TB adaptation with 70mm?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Just to confirm you loaded up both "Alpha N" and "Throttle angle vs airflow" tables into your file? You would need both of those.

You still may need to mess with the fueling tables regardless.


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## DeckerVW (Oct 21, 2016)

yes I did load both maps from the tapp 70mm base file hoping it would give me a jumping off point. to at least get the car to idle safely. 18:1 is not a safe A/F ratio to even be idling at. But I am still running a MAF...the ECU shouldn't even use those maps unless the maf is unplugged. Figured I would just be able to plug in the throttle body and maybe mess with fuel a bit and go from there....when that didn't work I tried to import the maps and still nothing. I tried adding a ton of fuel to see if I can even get it coming into range and still nothing. ECU is maxing out STFT at 26% which is nuts...then I thought maybe I messed something up and have a massive air leak somewhere though my taps for the mount holes. So I smoke tested it to 15 PSI....no leaks anywhere in the entire system.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Man that thing is never going to spool.

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## DeckerVW (Oct 21, 2016)

I hit 31 PSI at 4k what do you mean never going to spool?


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## k00ldip (Mar 18, 2013)

What am I doing wrong ? So inset up 2 step at 4500 and 15mph and flashed it. Once I start the car up runs fine but when I press the clutch it dies completely and it would not start up again, it will crank but won't start.

Went back to old file without 2 step and it's fine aigain.

HELP!!!!

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## NaSMK4 (Dec 12, 2011)

DeckerVW said:


> I hit 31 PSI at 4k what do you mean never going to spool?


id like to see a video of it spooling to 31psi at 4k if you can make that happen would appreciate it for science ive always been suspicious of that turbo is it a gen 1 or gen 2 gtx3071r?


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

New to this but more than willing to learn.. 

My setup is as follows. 
AWP 1.8T 
Frankenturbo FT21
Frankenturbo Manifold
500cc Injectors
VR MAF
3" Catless DP
2.75 Neuspeed Catback
Neuspeed FMIC

Running on maestro 7 AWP VVT FT21 550CC VR MAF File. 

The car fired up with zero issues on base file. I have done a lot of reading and it seems like there is a lot of outdate info, Eurodyne forums don't exist, and for someone like me willing to learn it seems like putting it out there and working through the issues is the best way to learn.. With that said I noticed at WOT 3rd gear pulls i am getting detonation... first question does the ECM need time to adjust? or should the file take effect immediately? I ask because i noticed an "improvement" at night when the weather was 20* cooler but that could of been due to weather. I also had an issue with the stock Charge Pipe retaining "C" clip keeps popping off so I am replacing with a Audi TT Charge pipe that eliminates the retaining clip. I was able to get a few WOT pulls before loosing the retaining clip and since have a temp solution to run logs without losing the retaining clips until the TT Charge pipe comes in. . 

Thought i would share my initial logs and see what suggestions you guys have. 

Log File can be found here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-3Sk_XZX_QtVzB5R1dBYmJPMTA?usp=sharing

Snapshot at idle: 










Snap Shot at WOT in 3rd:


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

MKIINIK said:


> New to this but more than willing to learn..
> 
> My setup is as follows.
> AWP 1.8T
> ...


Welcome! I'll start by saying that I just got into Maestro and tuning a little over a year ago, so definitely feel your pain as far as the lack of resources and what it's going to take to learn some best practices and start getting things right. You will likely start over many times before you really start seeing a file come together like it should. When I started learning this, I thought things would just be a matter of making minor tweaks to a base file, but what I quickly learned is that you still need to understand the basics and still need to build your file up to truly get it right. Spend some time reading through this thread as it walks through step by step how to set up a file. Some of this won't be applicable to you, but the basics will be. Read through the whole thread, as the OP learned and updated some things along the way.

In general, you want to do things with the following order: fuel/MAF, timing, boost. In looking at your log, you have a lot of work to do on fuel so I would start there and see how that impacts your timing pull. Your O2 corrections during WOT are pretty high and it looks like you are running pretty lean compared to requested. Consider dialing your boost back to near stock levels until you get your fueling closer. Also, for your WOT pulls, try to get your readings from a lower rpm all the way to redline. None of your pulls seem to be very long, with most starting WOT at around 4600 rpm. You'll get a better read of what's going on at WOT if your pulls go form around 2k rpm up to 6k. 

As far as learning, I found it best to focus on learning one concept at a time. Read up everything you can on fueling first and go from there. There are even lots of good resources outside of vortex. Inside of vortex, there are a few really good threads on specific topics, but you will rarely find one thread that has everything you need. Also check out the Maestro Handbook thread on here to get a good understanding of the maps if you don't already.


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> Welcome! I'll start by saying that I just got into Maestro and tuning a little over a year ago, so definitely feel your pain as far as the lack of resources and what it's going to take to learn some best practices and start getting things right. You will likely start over many times before you really start seeing a file come together like it should. When I started learning this, I thought things would just be a matter of making minor tweaks to a base file, but what I quickly learned is that you still need to understand the basics and still need to build your file up to truly get it right. Spend some time reading through this thread as it walks through step by step how to set up a file. Some of this won't be applicable to you, but the basics will be. Read through the whole thread, as the OP learned and updated some things along the way.
> 
> In general, you want to do things with the following order: fuel/MAF, timing, boost. In looking at your log, you have a lot of work to do on fuel so I would start there and see how that impacts your timing pull. Your O2 corrections during WOT are pretty high and it looks like you are running pretty lean compared to requested. Consider dialing your boost back to near stock levels until you get your fueling closer. Also, for your WOT pulls, try to get your readings from a lower rpm all the way to redline. None of your pulls seem to be very long, with most starting WOT at around 4600 rpm. You'll get a better read of what's going on at WOT if your pulls go form around 2k rpm up to 6k.
> 
> As far as learning, I found it best to focus on learning one concept at a time. Read up everything you can on fueling first and go from there. There are even lots of good resources outside of vortex. Inside of vortex, there are a few really good threads on specific topics, but you will rarely find one thread that has everything you need. Also check out the Maestro Handbook thread on here to get a good understanding of the maps if you don't already.



Thanks for the reply. I have looked at the thread you linked prior to this post and some stuff didn't apply but thats been the closest "guide" i have found on where to start. 

When you say look at:

Fuel/MAF 
Should i be looking at Fueling-Main Fuel Correction? 

Timing
Timing-Pump Gas Timing Map

Boost
Boost Control-Boost Duty

This is where I am lost. Can I use the Quick Tune to make these changes and if so I see the timing and boost adjustments what I dont know is which one is my fuel adjustment i should make. 

I added a file Quicktune with the highlights for Boost and Timing just not sure which one would be for Fuel if i tweaked that route.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

"Quicktune" are just the adaptation channels... see Unisettings/Lemmiwinks. Don't use these, tune the actual calibration tables.

I briefly looked over your log, there's a lot of things in there that don't make sense; such as, why is desired lambda always 1, but actual is enriching beyond that? I have a feeling that it's the logger that has a bug for your file version.

I think you have things so far out of whack for one reason or another, you won't get very far before blowing your engine up. I don't have explanations for what I am seeing in your logs, but fwiw, I don't have a lot of hope that you will be able to successfully tune your car with maestro in it's current state. It might be time to seek professional guidance... or just start reading a lot.

I mean, let's start with the CEL. Do you have a CEL? What codes are stored? When people come to me asking to tune, my first prerequisite is that you car is free of codes (other than minor emissions issues) before I even consider touching it. It's very difficult to chase your tail around hardware failures.


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

SB_GLI said:


> "Quicktune" are just the adaptation channels... see Unisettings/Lemmiwinks. Don't use these, tune the actual calibration tables.
> 
> I briefly looked over your log, there's a lot of things in there that don't make sense; such as, why is desired lambda always 1, but actual is enriching beyond that? I have a feeling that it's the logger that has a bug for your file version.
> 
> ...


You have a feeling that the logger has a bug for my file version? Should i load the non-vvt file and do some regular non spirited driving around? or are you saying the actual Maestro Logger version from Eurodynes website is buggy? 

I agree that things are out of whack. As far as hardware concerns my only concern at the time is the pressure\charge pipe coming off the turbo and i have one on order to replace the current C clamp style with a regular clamp style one at this point I have a temp solution in place that should not pup off. 

CEL - NO CEL on which i have found odd especially after the inter-cooler hose popped off i would expect a CEL

I have 1 trouble code P0171 Fuel Trim Bank 1 System to Lean.

^This is the only code and with detonation I am leaning on it needing more fuel.


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

anyone else have issue with quick tune not working? Mine times out every time i try to write the settings.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

MKIINIK said:


> I have 1 trouble code P0171 Fuel Trim Bank 1 System to Lean.
> 
> ^This is the only code and with detonation I am leaning on it needing more fuel.


When you say this is the _only_ code, it seems like you don't think it's a pretty major issue.

What are your fuel trims?


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

Alec's TT said:


> anyone else have issue with quick tune not working? Mine times out every time i try to write the settings.


just use unisettings... it's the same exact thing and it might provide you with more information than just timing out.


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

MKIINIK said:


> You have a feeling that the logger has a bug for my file version? Should i load the non-vvt file and do some regular non spirited driving around? or are you saying the actual Maestro Logger version from Eurodynes website is buggy?
> 
> I agree that things are out of whack. As far as hardware concerns my only concern at the time is the pressure\charge pipe coming off the turbo and i have one on order to replace the current C clamp style with a regular clamp style one at this point I have a temp solution in place that should not pup off.
> 
> ...


Based on your log and that code, I'm thinking at the very least your injectors are not calibrated properly. Did you get a data sheet to start with when you bought them?

As far as the maps, set your Main Fuel, Injection Correction, and Flowmeter Correction all to 1.0001 across the board and go from there. There are a lot of differing opinions on which ones to modify as you dial things in, so read up on those to see which makes the most sense for you making the above change will give you a good baseline for correcting this lean issue 


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

SB_GLI said:


> just use unisettings... it's the same exact thing and it might provide you with more information than just timing out.


Actually i am just trying to adjust my 2 step. I cant do that via unisettings. I can flash tunes just fine.


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

SB_GLI said:


> When you say this is the _only_ code, it seems like you don't think it's a pretty major issue.
> 
> What are your fuel trims?


When I say only code I mean exactly that it is the only code. I know its a major issue and needs to be addressed i guess somehow the word only made that code appear less significant than it actually is? 

I will need to go back and measure fuel trims blocks to get fuel trim at idle and elevated speed in vag com. From the logging i did today with maestro at idle and cruising speed Lambda values stayed in the .90 - 1.0 range for both if that says anything about fuel trims.


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> Based on your log and that code, I'm thinking at the very least your injectors are not calibrated properly. Did you get a data sheet to start with when you bought them?
> 
> As far as the maps, set your Main Fuel, Injection Correction, and Flowmeter Correction all to 1.0001 across the board and go from there. There are a lot of differing opinions on which ones to modify as you dial things in, so read up on those to see which makes the most sense for you making the above change will give you a good baseline for correcting this lean issue
> 
> ...


I did not get a data sheet. They were bundled with the Frankenturbo kit I bought from Frankenturbo. From my understanding if the file specifies the injector size there was no need to adjust the injectors. Also if the file doesn't specify that it calls for a specific FPR then it uses a 3 bar. I could be completely wrong tho so please correct me if i am wrong. 

I have been reading the Eurodyne Tuning Handbook which made a little more sense today after a few reads as to what each category and their sub category do and how they relate. I still need to do more reading but will try 1.0001 across the board on Main Fuel, Injection Correction and Flowmeter Correction sometime tomorrow if i get a chance. 

Also.. I remember reading on a Eurodyne PDF that you log, do a trace history apply trace, wash rinse and repeat.. is this actually part of the process at any point or is that more wishful thinking? I might be getting ahead of myself with that question but its one i have had so thought i would ask.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

MKIINIK said:


> I will need to go back and measure fuel trims blocks to get fuel trim at idle and elevated speed in vag com.


All you need to do is take a single reading of block 032. These are your long term fuel trims. The partial (multiplicative) will give you an idea of how far your calibration is off. You want to make sure that the values in 032 are within +/-5%. My guess is that you will either read 25% here (based on your lean code) or 0% because stuff is so far off that fuel trims are completely disabled. 

When you clear codes or flash a new tune, these adaptations reset. Go out and drive a few minutes to let these values build up again, record what's in 032, make changes to compensate... rinse and repeat until you get those ltft's close to 0.

Calibrating injectors and MAF go hand and hand. You should really one before you do the other so you are not chasing your tail.

Another sanity check for ensuring proper maf calibration... a F21 will flow about 230 g/s on it's very best day. If you see MAF readings that are much higher or lower than that at WOT around 5,500rpm, that will be a good indicator that your maf calibration is off.

To properly tune the ev14 550 injectors with a larger maf housing, you need to modify 1 constant and 2 tables and that's it. KRKTE, TVUB, and MLHFM. You might need to work a bit on injector corrections at a particular load/rpm or injection time/rpm once you get your trims zeroed, but that is nitpicking honestly. There's also the consumption display constant (KVB), but even professional tuners seem to miss that one.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

This needs to go here:

https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning

I know it's not maestro, but maestro is just a wrapper around all this ME7 stuff. If you are able to translate the real german table names into the "friendly" maestro map names, this page will tell you just about everything you need to know to get a your car decently tuned. I've tuned a fair share of cars, and I swear I reference this site for one thing or another almost every time.


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

SB_GLI said:


> All you need to do is take a single reading of block 032. These are your long term fuel trims. The partial (multiplicative) will give you an idea of how far your calibration is off. You want to make sure that the values in 032 are within +/-5%. My guess is that you will either read 25% here (based on your lean code) or 0% because stuff is so far off that fuel trims are completely disabled.
> 
> When you clear codes or flash a new tune, these adaptations reset. Go out and drive a few minutes to let these values build up again, record what's in 032, make changes to compensate... rinse and repeat until you get those ltft's close to 0.
> 
> ...


Believe it or not this is making more sense today than it did yesterday. I think I read enough yesterday to the point where things started clicking in my head. I'm sure more reading is still needed and I will have questions as I proceed. Hell I even remember reading how the MFA (consumption display constant KVB) would need to be reset in order for it to read correct


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

What SB_GLI said. S4wiki was great for me to reference a lot of this info. If you are running EV14s, there is a thread on the NefMoto forum that is also very informative.

A few other things:

1) I haven't ever looked at the Frankenturbo file, but you may be better off starting with a Stage 2 or 3 file and just tuning for your injectors. Some of the base files for specific setups have kind of wonky looking correction maps and other things that really aren't a good base for tuning. It's possible that file was super dialed in for whatever the test mule was and just isn't working for your vehicle.

2) FWIW I actually ran into some problems adjusting Injector Constant/KRKTE based on LTFT. I had much better luck leaving that value alone based on the wizard output and getting my fuel trims down by dialing in BVC and honing my Injection Correction maps via logging. This is more in line with what Rac337 moved over to doing on the second or third page of his thread. But again, it's one of many approaches to getting your setup right. I'm sure others have had success doing it differently.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> What SB_GLI said. S4wiki was great for me to reference a lot of this info. If you are running EV14s, there is a thread on the NefMoto forum that is also very informative.
> 
> 2) FWIW I actually ran into some problems adjusting Injector Constant/KRKTE based on LTFT. I had much better luck leaving that value alone based on the wizard output and getting my fuel trims down by dialing in BVC and honing my Injection Correction maps via logging. This is more in line with what Rac337 moved over to doing on the second or third page of his thread. But again, it's one of many approaches to getting your setup right. I'm sure others have had success doing it differently.


That's just the wrong way to do it. Let's take the MAF out of the equation for a second and just focus on tuning injectors (specifically non-modified ev14 injectors) to get LTFTs close to zero. For that, all you need is KRKTE and TVUB. If you need to modify anything else, then you have an hardware or calibration issues somewhere else. The problem with maestro is all the sh1t that is changed behind the scenes that you don't know about or have the ability to modify. It could simply be something else that is messed up in the base tune that's provided. I've seen a few maestro base files in the raw. Let's just said I would never trust that BS on my car, ever.

If you have a completely stock file, and you add ev14 550cc injectors, the only thing that you need to modify in the stock file is the injector constant (KRKTE) and voltage offset (TVUB). You modify KRKTE based on multiplicative trims (part throttle) and TVUB based on additive trims (idle). That's all, every time, every ME7 application.


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Are you suggesting that you never touch Injection Correction to dial in a file? I guess I could see not touching that if you are literally working on a stock file/car, but don't see how that's wrong to work with on a Stage 3/hardware change type situation.

In my case, my LTFTs were never outside of a 5% window with my correction map flat across the board. To get it further dialed in, however, i experienced problems by playing too much with the constant. I only used Injection Correction to minimize O2 corrections throughout the range and as a result bring LTFTs closer to zero. I was by no means suggesting that he change Injection Correction to cover up a fundamental problem 


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> Are you suggesting that you never touch Injection Correction to dial in a file? I guess I could see not touching that if you are literally working on a stock file/car, but don't see how that's wrong to work with on a Stage 3/hardware change type situation.


No sorry, that wasn't what I was going for. Yes, to dial in injector correction through rev/load/inj period range based on short term, that's what you would do. But, if you find yourself correcting all in one direction, perhaps your air flow metering isn't correct. Sorry, my head was stuck on trying to keep it simple for the purposes of the helping MKIINIK. In my experience, I have found all that is really needed to get the 550 ev14's almost perfect, all that is needed is what I stated before. I did modify FKKVS based on short term corrections in the past, but later, I found that most of the reason I even needed it was because I had my MAF calibration off.  YMMV.


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

SB_GLI said:


> That's just the wrong way to do it. Let's take the MAF out of the equation for a second and just focus on tuning injectors (specifically non-modified ev14 injectors) to get LTFTs close to zero. For that, all you need is KRKTE and TVUB. If you need to modify anything else, then you have an hardware or calibration issues somewhere else. The problem with maestro is all the sh1t that is changed behind the scenes that you don't know about or have the ability to modify. It could simply be something else that is messed up in the base tune that's provided. I've seen a few maestro base files in the raw. Let's just said I would never trust that BS on my car, ever.
> 
> If you have a completely stock file, and you add ev14 550cc injectors, the only thing that you need to modify in the stock file is the injector constant (KRKTE) and voltage offset (TVUB). You modify KRKTE based on multiplicative trims (part throttle) and TVUB based on additive trims (idle). That's all, every time, every ME7 application.


So I plan to go out later today and run some logs as well as get values for block 32. 

The plan is to Check for Codes, Make note of any codes, Clear if any codes. 
Begin logging
15-20 minutes of driving logged
Before turning the car off get a measurement of Block 32 making note of Idle Value and Part Throttle Value
Report Back Results

I am assuming the next step assuming i get back a value that is not 0 because stuff is off and trims are disabled it to make adjustments to the Injector Constant (KRKTE) and Voltage offset (TVUB). 
Idle Value (STFT) % is added or removed from the IC Value to compensate what is being subtracted or added by the ECU. 
Part Throttle %(LTFT) multiplied by IC Value = X <-- This will be added or subtracted to the IC Value and will be the new IC Value

Then wash, rinse and repeat this process until Block 32 Values are close to 0.

Once this is complete move on to MAF Calibration ?


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

MKIINIK said:


> Before turning the car off get a measurement of Block 32 making note of Idle Value and Part Throttle Value


There's no requirement to keep the car running. Adaptations persist, even if the battery is removed.



MKIINIK said:


> Idle Value (STFT) % is added or removed from the IC Value to compensate what is being subtracted or added by the ECU.
> Part Throttle %(LTFT) multiplied by IC Value = X <-- This will be added or subtracted to the IC Value and will be the new IC Value


Both Idle and part throttle are long term fuel trims (block 032). short term is what you see in block 033(?) Adjust TVUB based on idle trims, KRKTE based on partial trims.

Clear your codes to reset LTFTs and watch 033 and 032 at idle, you will see how they correlate. For instance, as 033 increases, you should see 032 decrease, and vice versa, until 033 it starts crossing zero and your long terms level out.



MKIINIK said:


> Once this is complete move on to MAF Calibration ?


As long as you understand you need to be running a stock MAF while tuning injectors and not touching MAF calibrations.


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

SB_GLI said:


> There's no requirement to keep the car running. Adaptations persist, even if the battery is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A stock MAF as in 2.5" even tho the file says its written for 3"?


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

I took some time to go out for a drive to get fuel trims and get some logs. 

I captured two snap shots of fuel trims. One Half way through the drive and another before shutting the car off. 

Logs: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-3Sk_XZX_QtNUlfcENzbHJJaHM

1st Capture of 32









2nd Capture of 32


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

To get your block 32 value as meaningful as possible, make sure you are recording after all kinds of driving. I.e. Don't just get on the highway and cruise for 20 minutes. These values aren't terrible. But your previous log showed corrections at WOT of around 22. So you want to make sure those conditions are reflected in your LTFT values 


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> To get your block 32 value as meaningful as possible, make sure you are recording after all kinds of driving. I.e. Don't just get on the highway and cruise for 20 minutes. These values aren't terrible. But your previous log showed corrections at WOT of around 22. So you want to make sure those conditions are reflected in your LTFT values
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The logs and the block 32 were a combination of stop and go driving and a a few drives cruising at 45-60. For the most part tho it was a variety of driving. I didn't do WOT pulls because of the detonation I experienced in my previous logs.


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

MKIINIK said:


> 2nd Capture of 32


Will wait on SB_GLI to instruct that this is correct before i save and upload to the car. Then repeat all over again. 

*BVC* - Going to select all Cells, Right click select Math Functions, Change Value 2.1 and select Add Percent based off the 2.1% in the first colume of Block 32 above. 

*Injector Constant*: Current Value 0.059385*.039= 0.002316015 <-- This will be negative since it was -3.9% in the second block. 
0.059385-0.002316015 = New IC Value: 0.057068985


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

MKIINIK said:


> Will wait on SB_GLI to instruct that this is correct before i save and upload to the car. Then repeat all over again.
> 
> *BVC* - Going to select all Cells, Right click select Math Functions, Change Value 2.1 and select Add Percent based off the 2.1% in the first colume of Block 32 above.
> 
> ...


Yes, that is how you would adjust KRKTE. I would have expected fuel trims to be much further off, but since they aren't you are likely dealing with a hardware issue. I didn't see the o2 corrections at WOT in the log, but if they were +22% like stated, you could be dealing with a fuel delivery problem. I would double check fuel pressure at the rail. It needs to be 3 bar + whatever boost you are running at that time. A bad fpr, clogged fuel filter, or tired pump could be supplying less pressure than expected and causing a lean condition.

Those trims as is are just fine. Something else is going on here.


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

SB_GLI said:


> Yes, that is how you would adjust KRKTE. I would have expected fuel trims to be much further off, but since they aren't you are likely dealing with a hardware issue. I didn't see the o2 corrections at WOT in the log, but if they were +22% like stated, you could be dealing with a fuel delivery problem. I would double check fuel pressure at the rail. It needs to be 3 bar + whatever boost you are running at that time. A bad fpr, clogged fuel filter, or tired pump could be supplying less pressure than expected and causing a lean condition.
> 
> Those trims as is are just fine. Something else is going on here.



One of my buddies suggested the pump might be weak point considering the fact that it could be original to the car. He also suggested putting a fuel guage to see what fuel delivery from the pump looks like. He said we would put a guage on it when he gets time next week to see if the pump is really pushing the values he expects from a good pump. 

I can replace the FPR and filter in the meantime to see if anything changes. I am also installing a wideband in the next couple days to keep an eye on A/F

Looks like my next action items are confirm pressure at the rail, swap FPR and replace fuel filter.

Edit: I ordered the DW65 intank from 034


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

MKIINIK said:


> One of my buddies suggested the pump might be weak point considering the fact that it could be original to the car. He also suggested putting a fuel guage to see what fuel delivery from the pump looks like. He said we would put a guage on it when he gets time next week to see if the pump is really pushing the values he expects from a good pump.
> 
> I can replace the FPR and filter in the meantime to see if anything changes. I am also installing a wideband in the next couple days to keep an eye on A/F
> 
> ...


Have you already adjusted your correction maps to 1.0001? My base file had some crazy peaks and valleys in both fuel maps, and that could explain why you have large corrections during certain driving conditions. 


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> Have you already adjusted your correction maps to 1.0001? My base file had some crazy peaks and valleys in both fuel maps, and that could explain why you have large corrections during certain driving conditions.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can try that today before replacing Fuel Filter and FPR.

edit: I still plan on replacing both as I dont think it will hurt. Same with the Fuel pump having those all new will give me some peace of mind.


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Yeah having a better pump is never a bad idea for big turbo applications. Any chance you could post your actual file? Maybe a few of us could spot some things for you.




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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> Yeah having a better pump is never a bad idea for big turbo applications. Any chance you could post your actual file? Maybe a few of us could spot some things for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is the Base FT21VVT File from Maestro - https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-3Sk_XZX_QtUnF6d20xMV8zY3c
This File has 1.0001 corrections for Main Fuel, Injector Correction, and Flow Correction (I have not loaded this file to the car or logged with it yet) https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-3Sk_XZX_QtTEp4MWRzRTBvMnM


edit; added 2nd file with 1.0001 Corrections


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

I'll try to remember to look this file over tonight as well. I don't use maestro, so I can see all the real changes in the file, not just the ones the maestro UI allows you to see.


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

SB_GLI said:


> I'll try to remember to look this file over tonight as well. I don't use maestro, so I can see all the real changes in the file, not just the ones the maestro UI allows you to see.


What are you using to read the files? I noted your earlier post about not having access to some maps and have picked up on this looking through different file types for Maestro, some of which give you access to more maps than others. It's frustrating if you get down a path for one file type but don't have access to all the maps 


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> What are you using to read the files?


Software that I developed for the good of the land, which I have no intention of distributing. 

If you feel frustrated with maestro, start reading nefmoto... a lot.


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

I added the file with 1.0001 corrections to Main Fuel, Injector Correction, and flow control. It is under the original comment with the Base file. 

I will upload and do some driving around later for logging as well as where fuel trims sit


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

I posted in your other thread. I am 99.967% sure you have a fuel delivery issue.


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## MKIINIK (Nov 2, 2009)

SB_GLI said:


> I posted in your other thread. I am 99.967% sure you have a fuel delivery issue.


I think you are correct. was going to try the other stuff just for kicks but i really think that either this car has a weak fuel pump because its original, at some point in its like the original pump failed and it was replaced with a stock 2.0 pump that may not be providing enough fuel or is weak.. I think my weakpoint is the fuel pump.

Edit: Swapped out FPR and the original came out in pieces. My luck the filter is clogged and the pump is on its way out. :laugh:


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## GTIfreak (Mar 25, 2001)

Newbie question:
I bought my car with Maestro tune and I have made these changes to the car:
- replaced test pipe with high-flow cat
- replaced high-flow exhaust manifold with stock OEM one

I will also be changing injectors from 630cc to 550cc.

Do I need to adjust my tune somehow to accommodate these changes or will it be fine as is?

Thanks.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

GTIfreak said:


> Newbie question:
> I bought my car with Maestro tune and I have made these changes to the car:
> - replaced test pipe with high-flow cat
> - replaced high-flow exhaust manifold with stock OEM one
> ...


You will need to change the tune based on the injectors you are using. Why so large of an injector if you are on a stock turbo? Are you running e85?


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## GTIfreak (Mar 25, 2001)

spartiati said:


> You will need to change the tune based on the injectors you are using. Why so large of an injector if you are on a stock turbo? Are you running e85?


Sorry, I should have added that the car is a GTRS Eliminator kit with larger MAF and TIP. So, basically Stage 3 with 630cc.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

GTIfreak said:


> Sorry, I should have added that the car is a GTRS Eliminator kit with larger MAF and TIP. So, basically Stage 3 with 630cc.


Ah ok. Either way if you're changing injectors then you would need to change the fueling tables. You can import them from another basefile with the correct injectors. Obviously still clean things up afterwards as well.


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## GTIfreak (Mar 25, 2001)

spartiati said:


> Ah ok. Either way if you're changing injectors then you would need to change the fueling tables. You can import them from another basefile with the correct injectors. Obviously still clean things up afterwards as well.


I guess I still need to learn the "clean things up afterwards" part. 

Eurodyne does have a 550cc base file. I wonder if I should load that instead and then adjust for larger MAF and HFC, which I still need to learn how to do.

I can just read and save the file I have in the ECU now and flash it back in case I mess something up, right?


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## kraftaroni (Feb 1, 2005)

*Bricked ECU*

[HR][/HR] I bricked my 2002 a4 b6 1.8t ecu, probably my doing I'm not completely sure. After writing a new file I flashed and upon finishing the client flash it started the flash process over. It stalled mid flash and now it says, Failed to connect. 

I have a Galleto flash cable and I'm trying to re-flash the ecu using that but I cannot use the maestro files in it. Anyone have the proper stock hex file for my car?
Thanks
Chris


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

kraftaroni said:


> [HR][/HR] I bricked my 2002 a4 b6 1.8t ecu, probably my doing I'm not completely sure. After writing a new file I flashed and upon finishing the client flash it started the flash process over. It stalled mid flash and now it says, Failed to connect.
> 
> I have a Galleto flash cable and I'm trying to re-flash the ecu using that but I cannot use the maestro files in it. Anyone have the proper stock hex file for my car?
> Thanks
> Chris


You can find what you are looking for on Nefmoto if you haven't already found it. PM me if you need help getting the correct original file.


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## Silver TT (Jan 26, 2015)

Hello,
I'm having some issues trying to tune my engine. Right now the idle is the largest issue: when I slow down at a light and push the clutch in the revs will dip below 500 rpm (sometimes stall) and the engine will shudder and then the revs will come back up to 900 and the engine will idle fine. I've tried changing the alpha-N map several times and that has seemed to help but it's not helping any more. I also tried increasing the idle torque value by 20% but that didn't help either. 

Here's a link showing what I've done to the car (2L stroker with AEB head and stock 60mm throttle body and cat 3658 cams. CTS top mount gt3071R). The boost is set to 15 psi and I've got the rev limiter set to 500rpm for now. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-to-replace-OEM-ashtray&highlight=w/m+ashtray

Some other questions I'm struggling with:
1) how come there are 3 idle maps???
2) how come there are 2 rev limiter maps???
3) The idle is super lumpy but sometimes it evens out when the ac is on. How do I emulate the extra load on the engine created from the compressor?

Thanks! I'm new to tuning so I appreciate the help. Here's a data log and the file I'm using.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/jtbwsz222z5daijikuvhb/AAAV8QR3oFd-i8APlnzTdv82a?dl=0&oref=e&r=AAZypPos_SLcBl3iVcNr7u5w0mZbADhoiPRZluyn5BhMC7GdYPoXmL3URzQMgMqmcPyPIki_AtEDAwPacEi1ieUT8r-R8WBdYDiDq4iwCOIhXrd76Mv1YeSXpbErQAH40Z2oM8REdyBrG9n-BB2Xkl-7nsCc3xO9aCbg9fLs4BfZeQ&sm=1


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

you have to increase the Idle Torque Reserve, 1 at idle and 1 at idle with clutch depressed. It must be 2 of the 3 idle maps you were mentioning.
Check the values in the maps and increase entire maps to 3.5. Let it adapt and if still lumpy, go up to 4.
Post a printscreen of the 3 idle maps and we'll go from there.


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## jvittum17 (Oct 10, 2016)

NEWBIE ALERT!

okay so I just finished my build 

1.8t AWP
2.0 stroker 
Gtx3071r gen2
80mm tb
AEB head 
Mafless
870cc at 4Bar

So I'm trying to get my car drivable so I can break in the engine but I'm stuck at the tuning end of things. 

Can someone give some some info or tips on how to tune my setup at least enough to drive around. I'm working off AWP stage 3 870cc file and I imported my new TB. 

Glad to see this is still alive, hope someone can help me out



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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Look up the thread by Rac337 called Maestro 7: my guide on how I do it 

That thread is fantastic for getting started. From there this thread will be good for specific issues and whatnot. Read his entire thread, as he changed strategies later on that worked better for me on my setup, most notably setting injector constant once and then leaving it alone. 

You'll find that there are a lot of different methodologies out there for solving the same things, but that thread is a great way to get a file started 


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## Silver TT (Jan 26, 2015)

Silver TT said:


> Hello,
> I'm having some issues trying to tune my engine. Right now the idle is the largest issue: when I slow down at a light and push the clutch in the revs will dip below 500 rpm (sometimes stall) and the engine will shudder and then the revs will come back up to 900 and the engine will idle fine. I've tried changing the alpha-N map several times and that has seemed to help but it's not helping any more. I also tried increasing the idle torque value by 20% but that didn't help either.
> 
> Here's a link showing what I've done to the car (2L stroker with AEB head and stock 60mm throttle body and cat 3658 cams. CTS top mount gt3071R). The boost is set to 15 psi and I've got the rev limiter set to 500rpm for now.
> ...





rogerius said:


> you have to increase the Idle Torque Reserve, 1 at idle and 1 at idle with clutch depressed. It must be 2 of the 3 idle maps you were mentioning.
> Check the values in the maps and increase entire maps to 3.5. Let it adapt and if still lumpy, go up to 4.
> Post a printscreen of the 3 idle maps and we'll go from there.


Thanks, I tried increasing the idle torque again as you suggested - first to 3% and then to 4% (on both idle torque maps). I drove it for 20 min each try and it made no difference. The engine still stalls when I let the clutch out. Any other suggestions? 

As for the three idle maps, it's probably a bug in the program. They are three identical maps for setting the idle speed (they are in addition to the idle torque maps).


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

after rising idle torque reserve, give it some time to adapt and increase idle rpm to 860-880


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## Silver TT (Jan 26, 2015)

rogerius said:


> after rising idle torque reserve, give it some time to adapt and increase idle rpm to 860-880


The idle is set to 900. How long do you need to wait for it to adapt? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the idea to get the program close enough that you aren't relying on the ECU to make corrections? Every time you clear a DTC the car won't run well until it adapts again... Do I need to increase the Idle torque and then make some adjustments elsewhere? Has anyone else had this issue and solved it directly?


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

what are your O2 corrections when the idle oscillates?


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## Silver TT (Jan 26, 2015)

Here's a graph of the data log showing the idle. The 02 corrections and the timing advance are on the axes on the right, rpm is on the left. 
The engine is kind of shaking in sync with the timing advance.


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## jvittum17 (Oct 10, 2016)

Newbie question! Don't hate me please lol

I have removed SAI, evap, n80 etc. I have yet to install the resistors but is it necessary if I have already deleted all that out of my tune or will it still make the car run like ****?


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

The N80 for sure needs it for adaptation 


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

Just look at your long term fuel trims to determine if everything is coded out properly. If the trims are stuck at zero, the ecu is saying, nope something is amiss, not going to bother with long term adaptations. If you have values in the LTFTs, then adaptation is working as expected, and there's not need to use resistors at all. It all depends on how maestro "codes out" these modules. If it's just disabling the DTC and not disabling the module (via ESKONF) then adaptations will be disabled as well. This is very typical when someone pulls all of their SAI stuff without properly disabling in the tune, or adding a resistor to the circuit. 

Also, Hi Brad. :wave:


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Hi Steve 


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## OBIWANKANNA974 (Feb 24, 2011)

I have a spare ECU without the pin code(car starts but cuts off because of immobilizer).Can i get this ECU pin code with maestro to adapt it to my car's immobilizer?


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

If you're setting up a new license you can run an immobilizer defeat and be in business pretty quick. I had to do this for my car since APR did me the favor of soldering one of their chips onto my original ECU that prevented anything else from flashing to the car.... if you're trying to move your license to a new ECU though I don't think that will work


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## OBIWANKANNA974 (Feb 24, 2011)

Yes it will be a new license. that's also cos my actual ECU has an APR eprom soldered inside that i need to use a spare ECU:banghead:


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

OBIWANKANNA974 said:


> Yes it will be a new license. that's also cos my actual ECU has an APR eprom soldered inside that i need to use a spare ECU:banghead:


Yep. Exact same issue I had. You should have no problem getting set up for immo defeat. Just make sure you read up on the process and follow the steps correctly. You shouldn't need the PIN for the ECU at all 


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## Paul#51 (Oct 25, 2012)

*Eurodyne AWP F21 VR VVT tune max MAF 170gps*



MKIINIK said:


> New to this but more than willing to learn..
> 
> My setup is as follows.
> AWP 1.8T
> ...


I'm fairly new to Maestro...
I'm running a similar setup, loaded the same tune. I had the opposite concern my MAF numbers were really low and no matter what suggestion(IC,FP,ect) I tried I was lean. If unplugged the MAF it ran alot richer. So I checked the AWP 550cc VR6 VVT tune and it was on the AWP MAF setting, changed to the VR6/TT225 MAF setting and BAM it hit the desires lambda...
I would of saved a lot of time checking and verifying the basics, but who would of thought the downloaded base tune had the wrong MAF loaded!


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## Alcrerion (Feb 16, 2012)

Hello

I've finally gotten my 2L stroker built and am in the process of getting it broken in. I have a Garrett T3/T4 60 trim currently on the car and am running the AWP 630cc non-vvt file.
When at cruising speed I've noticed that my boost/vac gauge is reading excessively high between -4hg to 1/2psi. Before the 2L I was running a stock 1.8t with a stage 2 AWP tune (with certain maps imported from an AMU file, but I forget which ones) and noticed that around cruising speed there was a lot more vacuum present and it wasn't as jumpy on the throttle.

Also have the stock small port head and stock intake manifold also, so the only variable I should be accounting for would be the increased displacement.

Can anyone point me in the direction of which maps to alter or how to sort out this issue?


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Assuming no vac leaks, have you updated the appropriate maps for the increased displacement?

I haven't done this myself, so I don't know what all maps are involved. I would assume Alpha N and Throttle Angle v Airlfow amongst likely others. I would be curious to know from someone more experienced what all is involved there 


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

Also, is Switching Active turned on in Quicktune?


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## remman4 (Feb 4, 2003)

New Maestro user here, trying to resolve long standing issues with the software/setup that I've ran on my GLI for the past 5 years
2005 GLI 1.8T
F21T
440cc injectors
N75 F valve
710n DV
Loaded the 550cc F21 file and corrected the injector constant based on the IC wizard
car was just fully leak checked and everything checked out to be in good working order

On this test drive the car started up fine and ran with a few minor hiccups, car would boost 5-10 psi and felt like it was surging. P1297 code was cleared but showed back up, bad DV?

here is the log, I'm new to reading these so don't know the red flags yet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/116998nknS2SPqsBKtiB5_dHnCYTwhoJWxSSGhvyqGhw/edit?usp=sharing


Car is at least driveable so I can get to work, but the long road of dialing in a tune starts here

any help is appreciated


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## remman4 (Feb 4, 2003)

Ran a bit more logging tonight and noticed the requested boost and actual boost are pretty far off at points, and my boost gauge doesn't match what the ECM is reporting; bad sensor?

Here is the log with conversions to psi less atmospheric pressure

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JqtdD-KRrMZNbWcxQrkr87q9x1ypTj0fKs5XSxVoer4/edit?usp=sharing


Car is still running rich but that could be due to the variance in requested boost vs actual


at idle the O2 correction is -20-21 at idle


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## agboostedjetta (Feb 23, 2008)

*Car stalling when coming to a stop*

First and foremost, please bear with me because I know nothing about tuning, etc.

I've had Maestro since 2011 (long time project) and have been running a base file since then. Setup is follows:

2 liter stroker
AEB head w/ cat 3658 cams
Pag GT3076r setup
SEM intake w/70mm TB
DW65v intank w/ Bosch 044 inline
Bosch 910cc injectors

On the original base file, car ran OK with an inconsistent idle and would occasionally stall coming to a stop. My wideband gauge showed good AFRs while driving around. My vacuum has been -11 hg at idle and -20 hg cruising at part throttle.

My laptop since took a **** so I loaded in a new base file, 70MM TB SEM manifold, 1000cc file. I have not made any corrections to the file. Since then, idle seems decent although running richer at times, 13-15s. Initially pulling out of my driveway experienced some rev hang. Cruising is the same as before, however the car stalls everytime when coming to a stop. Vacuum is the same as before, which I believe started since I did the intank pump but can't remember to be honest. I have checked for boost/vac leaks and everything seems fine. The motor sounds healthy.

I have made 3 logs at idle but can't do anything while driving (laptop issues). I would really appreciate if someone could give me advice to see if something needs to change in the tune or mechanically. I'll gladly share my logs if needed as well.


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## Siltard (May 16, 2018)

*Hey*

Hey people, what is that device for ? i have no idea !


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## OBIWANKANNA974 (Feb 24, 2011)

Hey guys, how would you improve engine throttle response when you off boost?


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## RoloGTI (Sep 7, 2008)

OBIWANKANNA974 said:


> Hey guys, how would you improve engine throttle response when you off boost?


More displacement? 

I think the only way is to have the VVT activated for what I have read it makes the turbo boost about 500 rpm earlier... I cant try it because for some reason the VVT file does not work good for me, EGT goes to the sky.... Yes I have a VVT head with all working fine...

Maestro does not have much support here...or anywhere... is more like try by your own and blow your engine by yourself


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

RoloGTI said:


> More displacement?
> 
> I think the only way is to have the VVT activated for what I have read it makes the turbo boost about 500 rpm earlier... I cant try it because for some reason the VVT file does not work good for me, EGT goes to the sky.... Yes I have a VVT head with all working fine...
> 
> Maestro does not have much support here...or anywhere... is more like try by your own and blow your engine by yourself


Make sure when you switch to the VVT file that the option Switching Active is checked in QuickTune. If not, timing will not advance and EGTs will soar as you described.


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## RoloGTI (Sep 7, 2008)

flat6turboGT1 said:


> Make sure when you switch to the VVT file that the option Switching Active is checked in QuickTune. If not, timing will not advance and EGTs will soar as you described.


I think I did (when I try the VVT file), but I will double check it... Thanks a LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

RoloGTI said:


> I think I did (when I try the VVT file), but I will double check it... Thanks a LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!


No problem. I've seen no rhyme or reason for when this option gets unchecked or checked, so I just make it a habit to check every time after I complete a flash.


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## paturicki (Dec 5, 2016)

Hi guys, I'm having a somewhat weird problem with timing while tuning my 1.8t Mk4 Golf.

I'm obviously new to tuning but I've spent 100s of hours reading on the subject both in general and on the ME7.5 and Maestro side of things before purchasing the program. I have a hybrid K04-015 turbo that I'm trying to tune to run as well as it did with the previous custom tuning before swapping to a Frankenturbo F23 or something similar in size. I started out with a base file for my 550cc Bosch EV14 injectors, the file was written for an F21 I believe. I then adjusted fueling following the guides on vortex and elsewhere and now I have it covered for most of my cells.

One problem I've been having with timing from the get go is that when I log with either VCDS or the Maestro logger, timing seems to follow what I've set it at when cruising and/or low boost, but as soon as the load increases it jumps to pretty much zero (like 0-1,5). It happened while the fueling was off by loads and LTFTs were enabled or disabled, and it's happening now that I've got the 02 corrections to really low values. 

Here's a log of a small pull while the fueling was still all over the place (the newer logs are on my other computer), but you can clearly see the line the ecu is just cutting injection to basically nothing.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12u1lWjptVhGvqhZCMLej6ESguRIcwyqKEDhTOha5eZE/edit?usp=sharing

Now that the fueling is better it doesn't even pull the 3 degrees timing it shows on the logs but the timing is still shown as 0. Also would someone have any insight why the actual lambda always creeps up to 0.75 even when the fueling has been adjusted and the 02 corrections are not that bad anymore. Could it be that my MAF is scaled wrong or that because I'm exceeding the MAP limit, the ecu refers to alpha N table and it shows the wrong values?

The car on the other hand runs great now and it doesn't seem to _show_ any timing pull at least. It also feels it has power that couldn't be achieved with so little timing but I'm not sure about that. If I seem like I don't know anything about tuning you might be at least somewhat right as I've just started learning this and I think this is the best place to ask because of the amount of knowledgeable people around.

TL;DR: Car seems to set timing close to 0 at higher loads no matter what's adjusted from fueling to target filling or maximum VE.

Edit; Finally figured out what this was, the answer was at page 111 but I didn't find it with the search function. I had the "switching active" thing on the quick settings disabled. The car runs like a dream now and pulls really hard!


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## OBIWANKANNA974 (Feb 24, 2011)

Hi guys.I run a greddy profec boost controller.
Is there still an interest to tune the 2 boost maps in my case as boost is now controlled by the ebc boost solenoid?
Thanks for your opinions.


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## zachhillmann (Jun 9, 2011)

is there a way to save the current file off your ecu if its with a different company? I.E. I have GIAC now and want to save that file.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

zachhillmann said:


> is there a way to save the current file off your ecu if its with a different company? I.E. I have GIAC now and want to save that file.


Lol gtfo

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## zachhillmann (Jun 9, 2011)

Bro......you mean I cant Keep peoples IP????? should have stated that I know better but thought I would ask.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Lol

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## jstnGTI (Jan 30, 2012)

Has anyone ever had fuel trims and O2 correction without having an "Actual Lambda" reading in maestro? Mine is just stuck at 1.02? 

O2 sensor is brand new. trying to work on fixing a lean condition at WOT


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## jstnGTI (Jan 30, 2012)

Also, is there any other community resources for asking Maestro-related questions? 

A fb group? Another forum that is active? I've started threads, commented, searched, etc and don't feel like the support has been great or huge.


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## just_a20th (Jan 2, 2019)

Ive been reading this forum for a couple of months and have read every page, planning to big turbo my 20th and wanted to use maestro 7. but it seems like this thread has died or is slowly dying. almost like no-one wants to self tune or help anyone. i would just search Facebook on those "mk4 owner" pages and ask if anyone uses Maestro and maybe they can help. best of luck:thumbup:


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## jstnGTI (Jan 30, 2012)

just_a20th said:


> Ive been reading this forum for a couple of months and have read every page, planning to big turbo my 20th and wanted to use maestro 7. but it seems like this thread has died or is slowly dying. almost like no-one wants to self tune or help anyone. i would just search Facebook on those "mk4 owner" pages and ask if anyone uses Maestro and maybe they can help. best of luck:thumbup:


Thanks for the suggestion! If you don't use maestro, what are you planning to use?


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## flat6turboGT1 (Sep 11, 2004)

just_a20th said:


> Ive been reading this forum for a couple of months and have read every page, planning to big turbo my 20th and wanted to use maestro 7. but it seems like this thread has died or is slowly dying. almost like no-one wants to self tune or help anyone. i would just search Facebook on those "mk4 owner" pages and ask if anyone uses Maestro and maybe they can help. best of luck:thumbup:


I think a lot of people have moved to the Facebook page. This thread has become too big to be manageable really. Always wished there would have been a Maestro section of the forum so it would be easier to search by topics/threads. Similar to the Roos tech section 


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## just_a20th (Jan 2, 2019)

Unitronic offers a couple of “off the shelf tunes”, but personally I look forward to the challenges and being able to tweak my tune. I’ll be going with a big turbo this summer as I have other things to focus on in my life this winter. But I will keep this forum updated as I start to tune. Let’s help bring this forum back!


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## BajanDub (Jan 8, 2004)

I’m having an issue with my NLS, it’s not my clutch switch. When I use a VVT file , my Ecu doesn’t register my clutch signal. If I use any other file it works. The car is a 01 with aww Ecu , it uses two clutch switches , one for the starter and the other for cruise control? . I contacted eurodyne about this and their response was “use a non vvt file then” . Has anyone encountered this , is there a way to fix it ? I’m thinking that the file maybe for newer cars that might only carry one switch ? Any insight ? 


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## 8vbunny (Oct 2, 2002)

Is there a database of files somewhere? Specifically ones for bigger turbo / injectors applications? Alternatively, are there any tuners in the NYC area that specialize in stuff like this? Thanks in advance! :thumbup:


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## aovalles2711 (Sep 18, 2019)

*Misfires and rough idle on MKVI with Stage 2 Maestro tune*

Hey guys, I'm currently dealing with a rough idle and misfires on all cylinders (Sporadic) whenever I clear codes and start the car. Any thoughts? Could it be a AFR problem? TBA?


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Plug type and gap? Coils? Coil harness? Vacuum leaks? Smoke test? O2 senator condition and age? 

Etc..... etc.. 

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## Lowdub02 (Nov 3, 2019)

Alright guys. How do you figure out the numbers in the graph? Mathematical equation. I'm learning so I am having a hard time with what it means. Ex. At 50% load and 3000rpm I'm at 30.7500.. how is that calculated. Any help would be seriously appreciated 

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