# How to remove and clean cupholders



## zelik (Nov 24, 2004)

*lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this*

Hi all,
I don't post that much here but I try to when I can. I, as well as my brother, have a 2004 Phaeton V8 and in general, we like the car very much (we bought them within a month of each other). We've both had problems with our cars but his have been more minor in contrast to the severe problems I've had. 
Let me list them:
1. Rear seat back falling off
2. Rear trunk cable broken and in effect cracked my rear windshield, requiring replacement of the rear windshield
3. engine light has come on 2 (or 3) times requiring me to bring it in
4. Slipping transmission that required a complete transmission removal and installation of a new transmission
5. Air conditioner unit breaking (twice)
6. Lower engine cover falling off and scraping the floor
7. Check engine oil levels light turned on
8. (and just today) Multi function display (in between the speedo and tach) gone haywire. Looks like "snow" on a TV screen.
I have a total of 29 thousand miles and have 7 thousand miles left on my lease (but a year and 2 months to go). I feel very annoyed that I have been constantly driving to the dealership for repairs. Worst yet, I have constantly had to drive non Phaeton or Touareg cars (as verbally promised by VW salesmen) for all my services and repairs.
Sure, I did not have to pay for these repairs. But the amount of time I've spent going there to get all these things fixed is extremely time consuming and testing my patience. I've just about had it. The final straw happened when I brought my car in yesterday for the 30k mile service (and repair the bottom engine cover as well as the "check engine oil level" light). I picked up my car the next day (today) and right when I started the car the multifunction display broke. The technician is boggled and after spending another hour diagnosing feels that a brand new instrument cluster is required (which, unfortunately, must be ordered). So, I have to go back again to drop the car off for repair.
What can I do? Is there a way to lemon this car or have VW end my lease early without penalties? I don't care to "gain" from this ordeal, I just want to be done with driving a car that is "driving" me.
Just venting and seeking advice. 
Thank you,
Victor
-04 Phaeton V8
-03 Cayenne S
-03 Mini Cooper
-06 SL600
-98 S500


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## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (zelik)*

Victor,
The "snow" in the MFI (Y24) display (the display that is located in the center of the instrument cluster) is a documented issue on the Phaetons that *does not* require a component replacement.
Here is a link to the thread detailing this issue:
TB: Distortion in the Display Unit in the Instrument Cluster (MFI, or Y24)
And here are the two technical bulletins regarding the issue:
PhaetonMulti-FunctionInstrumentClusterDisplayDistortion.pdf
InstrumentClusterDisplayDistortion-TB90-05-04.pdf
Please read the Distortion in the Display Unit in the Instrument Cluster (MFI, or Y24) thread completely. It is a very simple fix and takes only a minute to reset the display. The permanent fix will require your dealer to load a firmware update to your vehicle's Y24 controller.
I presume that your dispay looked like the picture below:

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view











_Modified by copernicus0001 at 3:01 PM 2-21-2006_


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (zelik)*

What was going on with the slipping transmission. I had a transmission replaced twice in my previous Audi (A6 4.2 V8) 2 years ago right before I got my Phaeton. 
Every now and then my transmission jerks, but I think it is more driving style adaptation. Would your transmission not go into gear, or slip out of gears?


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## martingie (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (dzier)*

Hi, David read through my post transmission noise. In my case it was a wrong trans. fluid filled in by the maker of the trans. This, (if you have an 8 cyl.) is the same trans than in 7 serie BMW, Audis etc. The problem is known for 04 models. They had to flush twice the trans. and replace the filter. It took 5 days to order the fluid from germany. Since than it is fine.I think slipping can be caused by that too.


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## zelik (Nov 24, 2004)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (dzier)*

Wow, thank you for that post about the MFD, I will send that to them to look at.
The transmission basically would "slip" like a manual clutch would. From a dead stop, I'd accelerate and it'd barely move then suddenly it'd engage and thrust me forward with a jerk. It'd also have very VERY rough transitions from 1st to 2nd.


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## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (zelik)*

Victor,
There are lemon laws for each state. Simply do a Yahoo/Google search on the subject and you will find the specifics.
The Indiana law (from memory) is like this:
The service events must have occurred within the first 18 months of ownership.
The vehicle qualifies if the same item has been repaired four times and is still faulty.
The vehicle also qualifies if it has been in service for 30 business days.
The refund is a percentage of the original purchase price based on the number of miles remaining to 100,000.
Best guess is that while you have been having issues, you may not qualify as a lemon. If that’s the case, you’ve come to the right spot to get the information necessary to assist in your repairs.


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## zelik (Nov 24, 2004)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this*

Hi,
Thanks for the info. I did to research on the lemon laws for CA and as long as the failures occured under dealer warranty coverage (which I qualify) then it's still valid. The one I have to try and get my service records to account for is "30 nonconsecutive days the car is in for repairs, of the same or different symptoms"
Too busy to deal with it today, I'm just happy I can try to fix my MFD for now. Thank you all again!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (zelik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zelik* »_...What can I do? 

Hi David:
Well, I guess the answer to that question depends very much on what you *want *to do. If you like the car and want to continue to enjoy it, by all means hang onto it, and the rest of the Phaeton owners here in the forum (self included) will do everything we can to share our knowledge with you - this will very likely minimize the number of service visits you have to make, and shorten up the service visits you do make. On the other hand, if you want to take advantage of the legislation in your state to get out of a lease because you are reaching the end of the mileage allowance - there's really not much any of us can say about that.
My experience gained from owning a Phaeton for 18 months and also participating in the forum here for 18 months is that the car itself is extraordinarily carefully built, and generally very well designed. The Phaeton is, however, a very complex vehicle, and it demands that the owner carefully read the owner manual from cover to cover, and that the technician servicing the vehicle also reads the service documentation (the Self Study Guides, the Service Manual, and the VW Technical Bulletins) carefully and thoroughly before working on the car.
The primary objective of our forum is to make Phaeton ownership (for the owners or lessees) more enjoyable and more trouble-free by providing the best possible explanatory and background information, and to make Phaeton servicing and troubleshooting (by the VW Dealer Technicians) simple, fast and effective by also providing explanatory and background information, and by sharing our individual experience.
My own analysis of problems that fellow owners have reported here on the forum (as well as retrospective analysis of problems that I have encountered with my own car) shows that the root causes of problems or service difficulties break out as follows:
*33%* of the reported problems arise from the owner either not understanding how the car works, or how he or she should operate the car.
Examples of this include the following:
- difficulty using the tire pressure monitoring system
- difficulty programming the keys, seats, and other convenience features to retain driver preferences
- dissatisfaction with the navigation system
- not understanding the importance of not letting the battery become discharged by leaving the ignition on but the engine off for long periods.
*33%* of the problems arise from the Phaeton technician either not understanding how the vehicle _should _be operated (e.g. how systems should work, from an owner point of view), or, not understanding how the vehicle should be serviced (in other words, not carefully reading the service literature, just jumping into it with the intention of 'learning by doing')
Examples of this include the following:
- attempting to adapt the TPMS when systems are still warm
- failing to hook up a battery maintainer, or, hooking it up to the terminals under the hood, where it will do no good
- 'shotgunning' the repair process by favoring component replacement over basic troubleshooting skills and analysis of paths of influence
- replacing radio control displays because the customer keeps complaining that 'the station presets keep changing', without realizing that the display is designed to constantly change to show what stations are within reception range
- plain old careless workmanship and lack of pride
*15%* of the problems arise from the owner simply not using common sense, for example:
- complaining of 'hesitatant acceleration' when they floor it, without considering that the car would accelerate a heck of a lot faster if they did not floor it and thus engage the kick-down switch
- driving the front end up onto curbs and wheel stops, then complaining that the underbody / engine components / bumpers are not 'strong enough'
- buying a car from a dealership far away to save a few dollars on the purchase price, then complaining that the local dealership they use to service the car doesn't treat them as a preferred customer
*15%* of the problems are component related:
- early battery monitoring controllers often did not divide recharge power up equally between the two batteries, resulting in a low charge condition on the vehicle power supply battery
- very early production TPMS controllers sometimes had problems
- early production door handles on Phaetons with keyless access can fail if exposed to very high pressure water blasts.
The remaining *4%* of the problems fall into the 'Act of God' or 'Stuff Happens' category, meaning, plain old bad luck.

_Quote, originally posted by *zelik* »_
1. Rear seat back falling off
2. Rear trunk cable broken and in effect cracked my rear windshield, requiring replacement of the rear windshield
3. engine light has come on 2 (or 3) times requiring me to bring it in
4. Slipping transmission that required a complete transmission removal and installation of a new transmission
5. Air conditioner unit breaking (twice)
6. Lower engine cover falling off and scraping the floor
7. Check engine oil levels light turned on
8. (and just today) Multi function display (in between the speedo and tach) gone haywire. Looks like "snow" on a TV screen. 

I can't really make an effective analysis of the problems that you have reported, because of the very brief descriptions that you provided. Items 1 and 2 I have never heard mention of before here on the forum. Item 3 - is that the MIL light (the emissions light) or the engine malfunction light? Item 4 - Martingie addressed a possible cause for that. Item 5 - What was the cause of the failure determined to be? Item 6 - either the technician did not put the cover back on properly, or, you scraped the front end of the car against something. Item 7 - be thankful for the notification the car provided, and add some oil to it. Item 8 - Douglas addressed that.
If you do want to keep the car, visit the forum from time to time and join in on the discussion and learning process that takes place here. Or, perhaps browse the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category), most especially the 'Troubleshooting' and 'Common Questions' sections.
The problem of few miles remaining on the lease allowance is a tough one to solve. I don't know what you will be charged for excess mileage on your lease. Perhaps you could call your lease company and ask if you can buy additional mileage _'en bloc'_ ahead of time. It's entirely possible that they might be willing to change your lease over to a higher mileage allowance for the same price as what this would have cost you when you originally leased the vehicle. Or, you could ask them what it would cost you to bring the car back at the end of the lease with whatever mileage you project to have (likely about 45,000, assuming you have a 3 year lease).
The only problem that we can't address here in the forum is the question of what vehicle you really want to drive. If you have cravings for the new Mercedes S series that went on sale this month, and you have a Phaeton and a '98 S500 you would like to get a divorce from to make room for that new platform S550 - there ain't nothing we can say here that will help you.
Michael


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (zelik)*

hmmmm, this concerns me a little. My transmission was smooth as silk for a long time, but the last several months, the car jerks a little from 1st to second, but not all the time (typically when cold). However, the car is accelerating fine.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (dzier)*

Hi David:
Have you spoken to Chris B. yet? I really, really recommend that you go see him while you are in the Chicago area. He knows his stuff, he is passionate about Phaetons, and he is a perfectionist. What more could you want?
Let me put it this way: When I had a transmission coding problem with my Phaeton after the Chicago GTG, and I couldn't fix it, I left my Phaeton with Chris, and he fixed it for me. 'Nuff said?
Michael


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## pretendcto (Nov 23, 2005)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_...Let me put it this way: When I had a transmission coding problem with my Phaeton after the Chicago GTG, and I couldn't fix it, I left my Phaeton with Chris, and he fixed it for me. 'Nuff said?

Was the transmission coding problem related to the paddle shifter mod and the desire for them to work in 'D' or 'S'?


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi David:
Let me put it this way: When I had a transmission coding problem with my Phaeton after the Chicago GTG, and I couldn't fix it, I left my Phaeton with Chris, and he fixed it for me. 'Nuff said?
Michael
Michael,
Was your car hesitating with the transmission coding error?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (dzier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_Was your car hesitating with the transmission coding error?


Uh, to tell you the truth, I don't know, you'll have to ask Chris...







...after I screwed it up (as a result of removing the paddle shifters) I gave it to Chris, who was kind enough to let me drive his personal Passat for the next week. I then left Chicago and went to Kansas. When I came back to Chicago a week later and picked up the Phaeton, everything was working correctly again.
Michael


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_Was your car hesitating with the transmission coding error?

David,
Michael's coding error was simply a matter of the transmission looking for paddle shifters that were no longer present & assuming there was a problem.
The solution came from convincing the TCM and Gateway (that's CAN-BUS, not the computers in the cow boxes) to go have another look, realize the paddle shifters were't there and give up looking for them already.
And, to answer your original question, the transmission was shifting fine while the error was present.
Good to talk with you -- look forward to seeing you Tuesday week!

_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I gave it to Chris, who was kind enough to let me drive his personal Passat for the next week.

I still maintain I got the better end of that deal.


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## zelik (Nov 24, 2004)

Oh don't get me wrong, when the car is working fine I enjoy the car. I don't want to "lemon" it because I'm out of miles, it was a "might as well" because I leased the car knowing I would go over mileage and accounted for the 15cents/mile into my budget. The reason I'm frustrated with the car is the constant issues I have to deal with regarding service. Just today, I noticed the passenger seat's rear cover is coming loose again. I don't have children, no one pulls on it, I rarely have any passengers in my back seat so I don't know why the craftsmenship on some parts is so poor. My center console "release" broke, so now the center console does not "click" lock when closed. I've also been into service to repair my cup holder because it was stuck. Also, both my driver and passenger side seatbelts had the plastic "clips" fall off (I don't see what major purpose they serve, but it's just annoying).
These are all just minor annoyances, I've owned many different cars and I didn't have to deal with so many minor problems within the first 30 thousand miles! Perhaps it's just bad luck? My brother has an exact same Phaeton (black) but has none of the issues I had. That is why I feel like I "got a lemon."


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (zelik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zelik* »_My center console "release" broke, so now the center console does not "click" lock when closed. Also, both my driver and passenger side seat belts had the plastic "clips" fall off.


The console lock will snap if you close the lid and lean on it while something is poking out the front edge - a pencil or phone cord for example.
On the seat belt clip issue, it appears the door will strike the plastic "clips" if the seat belt is twisted when you release it and it retracts out of the way. After a while, the fasteners that hold the two halves together crack and separate. Easy and inexpensive to replace if you lose the parts. Super glue is a solution if you have the parts.


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## geowben (Jan 26, 2005)

My console was broken when I got the car. It was repaired under warranty, and, surprisingly,is a fairly difficult job. 
As for the seat belt clips, a couple of mine have fallen off. No big deal, I just go without them. All they do is cover the stitching.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (zelik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zelik* »_...I've also been into service to repair my cup holder because it was stuck.

The cupholders will sometimes stick in the down position if a beverage containing sugar or milk spills inside the cupholder. There is a fairly easy fix for this, and you don't have to take the car to the dealer to get this done. Some dealers will complete this repair for you at no charge, as a customer courtesy. A different way of looking at your experience with the cupholder could be to consider that your dealer removed and cleaned the cupholder for you, at no charge, rather than to find fault with the vehicle as a result of what was most likely caused a beverage spill.
Here's what to do if you encounter this problem again:
*1)* Apply two pieces of masking tape to the console, one inside the cupholder and one outside, to assist you in orienting the cupholder correctly when you re-install it. Mark an arrow on each one to show the (rotational) position of the cupholder before you begin work.








*2)* Using an Allen key, remove the small bolt that prevents the cupholder from rotating.








*3)* Set the bolt and the key aside so they don't get lost during the process. It is a special bolt, not a standard 'stock' automotive item.








*4)* Twist the cupholder outboard (in other words, clockwise on the passenger side, counter-clockwise on the driver side) about 10°. Make a second mark on the exterior piece of tape to show you the 're-installation' position. *Depress the cupholder base all the way down*, then gently lift the whole assembly straight up.








*5)* Take note that the cupholder is *removed* with the base fully *depressed*, and will later be *installed* with the base fully *up*.








*6)* Before you take the cupholder to the kitchen sink to wash it with warm water, take note of where the existing lubrication is.








*7)* Note the difference in the tabs sticking out of the side of the assembly when the base is up vs. when the base is depressed. Now you can see why the cupholder can only be removed with the base fully depressed.








*8)* After you have washed the cupholders in the kitchen sink and removed the residue from the spilled beverage, pat them dry with a towel. Apply VW lock cylinder lubricant to the *bottom *(only!) of the three rails, as illustrated above, and also to the full length of the toothed track that is visible at the bottom of the assembly when the base plate is depressed. Operate the cupholder several times to make sure everything works well. Do not lubricate the tabs (shown above) - this is neither necessary or desirable.








*9)* With the base plate in the up position, align the arrow with the removal position, and gently wiggle the cupholder into the hole. *Do not force it down* - the wood trim around the hole that the cupholder goes into is brittle and can easily be chipped if you are ham-handed. Be patient, take your time, take it easy - the overall pace and delicacy of the insertion operation is somewhat analogous to, uh, reproduction.








*10)* This is what it looks like after it is fully inserted, but before you twist it back into the normal position to 'lock it in'.








*11) *Once it hits bottom, twist it 10° to line the two arrows back up as they originally were, then re-install the keeper bolt with the Allen key. Do not overtorque the keeper bolt. Gently snug is good enough.








The same procedure is followed to remove and replace the back seat cupholders in a 4 seat Phaeton, or, to remove and replace the cupholders in Touaregs that are equipped with similar design cupholders.
Michael


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## pirateat50 (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_
The console lock will snap if you close the lid and lean on it while something is poking out the front edge - a pencil or phone cord for example.

I broke my console latch this very way last week. I was very surprised at the cheap plastic quality of this part. Not the level of quality I expected at all. I hope my dealer will replace it as a warranted part. but I have my doubts--they charged me for a replacement for a dipstick with a broken tip. The service manager said I could have broken it by "ramming it in too far." 
I did not bother showing him the stop near the top that will only allow the stick to go but so far into the tube. He is a bit of a "dipstick" anyway, so I did not want to get into a "dipstick ramming" technique discussion with him. I think he must suffer from "dipstick envy!"











_Modified by pirateat50 at 9:13 PM 2-24-2006_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (pirateat50)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pirateat50* »_... they charged me for a replacement for a dipstick with a broken tip. The service manager said I could have broken it by "ramming it in too far." 

Gee, they should not have charged you for that, it is a 'known issue' with the 2004 W12 Phaetons. We have a post about it here: Broken Oil Dipstick - W12 Engine. I'm actually quite surprised that VW has not yet put out a Technical Bulletin about those early W12 dipsticks, because it is going to cost them a fortune to replace a W12 engine if someone overfills one with oil because the end of the dipstick is missing and they don't know about it. There are less than 500 W12's in NAR, that's $5,000 in dipsticks, and a single W12 engine lists in the parts catalog for $36,000. 
It's probably not worth fighting over a $8 part, but the way it was handled says a lot about your dealership's service department.
May I trouble you to take some photos (lots of them) of the broken console latch and cover? I think we should make a post about that, just to give everyone a 'head's up'. That problem is kind of borderline so far as warranty is concerned - reasonable arguments could be made both for and against covering it under warranty. It's an expensive part and requires a ton of labour to replace, around 3 hours or so. I want to make a post so that folks know about the risk of damage ahead of time, and don't accidentally break it. Just email the photos to me (up to 10 megs at a time) - click on my user name to the left of this text to reveal my email address.
Michael


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## pirateat50 (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I will try to get the photos to you today or tomorrow.
Thanks,


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## ciscokidinsf (Feb 17, 2008)

*Photos of Cupholder cleanup?*

Hey, Michael can the pics be re-hosted? I need to clean up my cupholders. 
Thanks.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Photos of Cupholder cleanup? (ciscokidinsf)*

I'll try to do it on Monday. I am in Switzerland now and have to get to Vancouver Island by tomorrow - no internet on the plane.








Michael


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## ciscokidinsf (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Photos of Cupholder cleanup? (PanEuropean)*

Michael, another friendly reminder, could you please rehost these pics when you have a chance? I'm actually thinking about replacing my plastic cupholders with the wooden ones. The ones I have have been scratched a bit more than I would like, and they are dirty!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Photos of Cupholder cleanup? (ciscokidinsf)*

Photos re-hosted, thanks for the reminder, sorry I forgot.
Michael


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## Otters (Dec 21, 2007)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (martingie)*

Very interesting post! I too am having transmission issues and am now wondering if there is incorrect fluid in the vehicle. I have the hesitation in first followed by a launch. The transmission is sloppy overall in 1st or 2nd gear. I also get a hard downshift from 3rd to second if I am slowing at a normal pace. I have actually adjusted my driving to brake quickly to avoid the hard downshifts. 
I had a dealer check it out but they said to just keep an eye on it. I know there is an issue but they stated they couldn't replicate. I am in the Chicago area and am new to the forum; I am a 2-month Phaeton owner. I have heard great things about Chris B; can you fill me in? I love the car but would like the transmission to work as well as the rest of the car. Any suggestions? How difficult is it to "flush" the transmission myself? Is there a recommended dealer or service person in the Chicago area (I live a little west of Barrington)? Any way to check what fluid is in the trans? Should I call the Phaeton/Torareg phone number? Sorry about all the questions! 
Thanks so much everyone.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (Otters)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Otters* »_I have heard great things about Chris B; can you fill me in?

He's probably one of the most stand-up, righteous, honest, smart-working, loyal, enthusiastic, handsome, froopy dudes you'll ever have the privilege of dealing with. He's also modest.







Too bad he doesn't work for VW anymore.
So, given that, I'd recommend either going to see Bill at Liberty Imports in Libertyville (847-680-8000) or John Paul at Autobarn Mount Prospect (847-392-6300). I have also heard good things from other members about Autobarn Evanston, but I don't have a contact there.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (chrisj428)*

*Archival Note:* Related post - Retrofitting Wooden Cupholders


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: lemoning a phaeton? Really need comments on this (PanEuropean)*

*Archival Note:*
Two posts (both by me) about the exact same (related) topic - guess I must be getting forgetful in my old age.
Repairing the Cupholder Release Button
Cupholder fix
Michael


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## dstalling (Feb 19, 2009)

*Re: Photos of Cupholder cleanup? (PanEuropean) Removing a cup holder with a broken cup.*

Michael,
I want to thank you for posting these pictures along with the how to remove! A word to the wise, don't put small screws in the cup holders. I had not noticed that there were holes that allowed small items access to the inner works. That resulted in a screw lodging in the bottom section that prevented locking the cup holder in the down position and caused one of the hinged fingers pivot points to break. I removed the unbroken cup holder to gain some access (and to see how the rotation grooves free the cup holder and allow it to slide up). 
To get the broken cup holder out, I took a 2" nail and bent the end into a "J" that I could use to pull the finger into the cup while holding the cover down in the bottom position (tricky). Having removed the small bolt, I could then turn the cup holder to allow it to be removed. I have yet to see if the polymer I use to repair the broken pivot points on the back of the cup will hold. The pictures and text were very helpful!
daves


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

*Cup Holder Broken*

I have a quick question, my passenger cup holder will not stay down...I believe either the spring or retention clip maybe broken.

Would the removal process be the same as documented above or should I be cautious of any other details?

Appreciate the assistance as always.
Uday


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## 611 (Sep 1, 2010)

I just took mine out to refinish them. Pushing it down changes the config of some moving parts so that it comes out smoothly. I would take out the working one so that you can see how it works and then you also can easily get a good hold on the broken one so that you can press it down and work it out. 

Kevin


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

Okay will give it a try...seeing as the dealership is charging upwards of $400cdn to put in a new one.


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Hi,

The removal procedure is not working for me on my 2004 V10. I have removed the bolt and manager to twist the upholder assay the 10 deg to the left (RHD passenger side) but there is no way the unit will come out even pulling quite hard.

I can get one side of it to lift a bit but it feels like there is definitely something holding it in.

The is a shame as I have the new part, €90 but the local dear is quoting €250 labour to replace it as they say that the whole of the centre console has to taken out!

Any ideas on what I might be doing wrong?

With thanks in anticipation,
Steven


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## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

Steven,

I took my driver's side one out on a UK car for the first time yesterday (to lubricate), following Michael's instructions, and it went like a dream. It was a little fiddly to pull out, but nothing serious. The only thing that occurs, and I may be mis-understanding you, or mis-remembering what I did, but I thought that on my drivers side (so your passenger side) I actually had to twist it clockwise not anti-clockwise i.e. to the RIGHT. In fact on the RH side cupholder (as you face forward) of the car I am sure it is clockwise twist (I would guess no more than 5 degrees) then lift.

You definitely do not have to pull hard, just make sure the cupholder is 'depressed' for removal (and 'up' for putting back) and fiddle with it keeping it always close to vertical.

PETER M


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

One of mine was difficult to remove, even though I'd rotated it. I solved it by removing the other one first, that allowed me to get my hand underneath the one I that was stuck and push it upwards. Once it had come out the first time, it came out more easily subsequently.


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

PeterMills said:


> Steven,
> 
> I took my driver's side one out on a UK car for the first time yesterday (to lubricate), following Michael's instructions, and it went like a dream. It was a little fiddly to pull out, but nothing serious. The only thing that occurs, and I may be mis-understanding you, or mis-remembering what I did, but I thought that on my drivers side (so your passenger side) I actually had to twist it clockwise not anti-clockwise i.e. to the RIGHT. In fact on the RH side cupholder (as you face forward) of the car I am sure it is clockwise twist (I would guess no more than 5 degrees) then lift.
> 
> ...


Hi Peter,

I've tried it again but it is stuck fast. I m going to try the suggestion of InvisibleWave, maybe that will do the trick?

Many thanks for your help,

All best,
Steven


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

invisiblewave said:


> One of mine was difficult to remove, even though I'd rotated it. I solved it by removing the other one first, that allowed me to get my hand underneath the one I that was stuck and push it upwards. Once it had come out the first time, it came out more easily subsequently.


Many thanks for this,

I'll be giving it a try in the morning, I don't want this to defeat me!

All best,
Steven


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## eburgerwa (Mar 27, 2011)

Expoman said:


> Many thanks for this,
> 
> I'll be giving it a try in the morning, I don't want this to defeat me!
> 
> ...


Hi Steven,

I took my cup holders out this weekend to center the pin on one of the cup holders that did not function properly (as explained at the start of this thread).

The cup holder that functioned properly was easy to remove, but not the one that was broken. The key here is not to use force as you can do more damage. If you have a cup holder that sometimes gets stuck in the down position, it will be more difficult to remove. I found that the assembly behind one of the little tabs that jut into the cup-holder recess (to keep a cup in place) was not fully seated, and this prevented me from removing the cup holder assembly.

I solved this by grabbing the supporting tab and pulling it towards the centre of the cup holder while at the same time lifting the cup holder out. This worked for me. 

I used some bicycle oil (Phil's Tenacious Oil) to lube the cup holder after I fixed the pin issue and it works like a charm. 

I hope this makes sense - I should have taken some photos.

Cheers
Eugene


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted.

Michael


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## Helioson (Mar 3, 2014)

Thanks so much for the photos, Michael! Turned out to be just the "pin" adjustment to solve my problem. This was my first "personal" fix since ownership in April '13...Immediately spent 5K on maintenance stuff & another 5k by Fidelity platinum (purchased through our respected Mr. Farnham) on repairs. Have been reading for hours on multiple days since discovering this forum: Awesome! Thank you all! Having a driver side lowbeam flicker issue though, since original "minimal" problem with passenger side flicker (more like vibration than flicker) issue. Initially replaced both bulbs (fixing passenger side), but resulting in the drivers side flicker. So, replaced ignitor on drivers side with no improvement. Read all related threads from this forum & not sure what's next, but way too irritating to drive as is (at least at night). No faults, so wanted to try troubleshooting with bumper off & switching bulbs (first to other side) & then if no improvement switching bulb to OSRAM D1S. This will probably be done by mechanic & not me. Did not use OSRAM the first time & maybe that's it? I think it was a cheaper replacement (Chinese), maybe...I wasn't exactly Phaeton savvy at the time & didn't know any better... Any other suggestions guys?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Christopher:

Welcome to the forum community. About that flickering of the headlights - check for corrosion (or possible heat degradation) of the cable from the ballast assembly to the bulb. The problem usually occurs at the bulb end of the cable, on the pins that make contact with the bulb.

Michael


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## Helioson (Mar 3, 2014)

Thanks for responding, Michael. I will follow the advice given & post final solution.


Chris


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