# "Shame on you"......VW



## RAfA95 (Mar 11, 1999)

*"SHAME ON YOU"......VW*

Just saw an advertisement on CBS (New York) about a story that will be on Thursday's News (SHAME ON YOU segment) about the Touareg.
Apparently someone is complaining that the Touareg does not do all that VW advertises it does... No details were really given... only Teaser type stuff... 
They had a tape measure and seem to be measuring the space between the top of the wheel and arch...








For those who don't know.... "CBS: Shame On You" is one of those segments on the news when people have a problem and can't get any resolve. They get the news to do a story kind of "Help Me" story.


----------



## KOPIER (Sep 23, 2003)

LET ME KNOW HOW IT WENT! IM IN SOCAL SO PROBABLY NOT SHOWING HERE.


----------



## SeaBiskit (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: "SHAME ON YOU"......VW (RAfA95)*

I just saw that as well, and was like WTF?








I bet this idiot doesn't understand something about the adjustable ride height. He may think he gets 24" of clearance in the wheelwell!







Who knows, but if that's the case, CBS will have some serious explaning to do!


----------



## donaldvanw (May 5, 2003)

*Re: "SHAME ON YOU"......VW (RAfA95)*

See post under Class III Hitch Alternative dated 10/24 regarding Touareg on the news by bluvalley.


----------



## bluvalley (Jul 20, 2003)

Hey SeaBiskit,
Be careful what you say. BTW, I'm not an idiot. Watch the report on Thursday and you'll see. It's more like VWOA has some explaining to do, not CBS.
Bluvalley


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (bluvalley)*

Do you know exactly when the segment will appear? Can you find out if the station will have it on their website? I would really like to see it and have a copy but our cable network doesn't carry any NYC network stations. 
Incidentally, i think he is recalling the incident when some TV producer put pyrotechnics on a car to make his news bit more dramatic. It might have been CBS too. I don't recall the incident though.


----------



## vwtregv8 (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*

if we can't see it online or otherwise have it posted, i know a reporter at the boston cbs affiliate who might be able to secure a copy for us...sounds like this is of interest to us all -- so lets make sure we see it


----------



## SeaBiskit (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: (bluvalley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bluvalley* »_Hey SeaBiskit,
Be careful what you say. BTW, I'm not an idiot. Watch the report on Thursday and you'll see. It's more like VWOA has some explaining to do, not CBS.
Bluvalley
f
Hmmm, be careful what I say? It's hard to take a wild guess what that problem was. And I wasn't calling _you_ an idiot. I was talking about Pablo Gusman or whoever was doing the story. But obviously he's not because the issue doesn't rely in the adjustable air susp.
Anyway, glad to hear you came out on top of the situation. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

http://cbsnewyork.com/shamestories/
It should show up eventually.


----------



## donaldvanw (May 5, 2003)

*Re: (GT17V)*

2 +2 = towing issues!


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (donaldvanw)*

....Like the Chevy Tracker towing a tractor trailer commercial?


----------



## meatster (Mar 9, 2003)

Hey bluvalley, you should have told Arnold Diaz about the keyfob problem too while you were at it. Maybe someone with some energy will after this and VWoA might tossed us a bone and fixed it.
meat


----------



## njtouareg (Jul 10, 2003)

*Re: (bluvalley)*

What time on Thursday?


----------



## RAfA95 (Mar 11, 1999)

*Re: (bluvalley)*

Just saw the commercial again...... 

Hey bluvalley... Is that you in the commercial?


----------



## nj TDI fan (Feb 15, 2003)

Bluvalley- can you just give us a synopsis, since it's your beef to begin with?


----------



## srohrbaugh (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (nj TDI fan)*

To save him some grief, see his original thread: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1017880 
and then
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1077613


----------



## RAfA95 (Mar 11, 1999)

*Re: (srohrbaugh)*

Just saw the report on CBS....... 
WOW.... this is huge!!!!!
VW better do some SERIOUS damage control or they are FFFFFFFFFFFFF'd


----------



## meatster (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (RAfA95)*

Did someone tape it? Did I hear right that VWoA said they would refund anyone's money who thought they were deceived?? If that's what they said than that IS HUGE!
Also, I thought they said that VWoA still says it CAN pull James airstream, just not the larger model displayed in the commercial. That don't make sense???
meat


_Modified by meatster at 11:32 PM 10-30-2003_


----------



## Professor Gascan (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: (RAfA95)*

For those of us who didn't see it, would you mind filling us in as to what was said.


----------



## Braski (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: (Professor Gascan)*

they said they would give anyone their money back if they bought it to pull an airstream or something like it.

Braski.


----------



## WaitingforaT-REG (Jun 29, 2003)

*Re: (RAfA95)*

This is big!
Do you really think we will all get letters explaining the problem or suggesting some sort of compensation?


----------



## meatster (Mar 9, 2003)

At best, expect a $50.00 gift certificate to vwgear.com;-)

The letter will probably state the towing capacity with some heavily padded safety margins. They'll also probably come out with a different towing hitch. And finally pray that people having other non-towing related problems don't run back to the dealer demanding a refund for being deceived. Not so mush for the towing issue but for the crappy service they've been getting. Hmm, this might be the mistake that gives people an out to stick it back to VWoA for any mistreatment...

meat



_Modified by meatster at 11:40 PM 10-30-2003_


----------



## vdubfan974 (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: (WaitingforaT-REG)*

The problem was with his towing hitch...it was the wrong tounge weight..he was told if he replaced the hitch it would void his warranty..its more the tow hitch that comes with the t-reg and the commercial more than the car.


----------



## meatster (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (Professor Gascan)*

Synopsis (correct me if I fugged up anywhere):
1. James asked them if it could tow his airstream, VW said yes.
2. He buys it but finds out it can't despite a print add showing it towing the same sized airstream and a tv add showing it pulling a larger airstream.
3. James asks about putting a different hitch to solve the problem, VWoA says they will void his warranty.
4. James tries to get a solution or his money back from VW for weeks.
5. James calls Shame On You, they contact VWoA and do a satellite interview with a VWoA exec who says "it's out first SUV and our marketing guys wanted to show it doing something dramatic and may have overstated it a bit". He also says that VWoA is sending a letter out to all t-reg owners stating the true towing capabilities of the t-reg and said that VWoA is solving James's problem.
6. They buy the t-reg back and say they will refund peoples money back that felt deceived.
7. Tina, Ernie and Arnold pat themselves on the back for showing up VWoA.
The End
meat


_Modified by meatster at 11:50 PM 10-30-2003_


----------



## RAfA95 (Mar 11, 1999)

*Re: (meatster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *meatster* »_Synopsis (correct me if I fugged up anywhere):
1. James asked them if it could tow his airstream, VW said yes.
2. He buys it but finds out it can't despite a print add showing it towing the same sized airstream and a tv add showing it pulling a larger airstream.
3. James asks about putting a different hitch to solve the problem, VWoA says they will void his warranty.
4. James tries to get a solution or his money back from VW for weeks.
5. James calls Shame On You, they contact VWoA and do a satellite interview with a VWoA exec who says "it's out first SUV and our marketing guys wanted to show it doing something dramatic and may have overstated it a bit". He also says that VWoA is sending a letter out to all t-reg owners stating the true towing capabilities of the t-reg and said that VWoA is solving James's problem.
6. They buy the t-reg back and say they will refund peoples money back that felt deceived.
7. Tina, Ernie and Arnold pat themselves on the back for showing up VWoA.
The End
meat

_Modified by meatster at 11:50 PM 10-30-2003_

Yea.. That's pretty much it.....

The other car companies are gonna have a field day with this.....

BTW: I taped it...


----------



## Professor Gascan (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: (RAfA95)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RAfA95* »_
The other car companies are gonna have a field day with this.....


I'd be surprised if they did. I haven't seen any manufacturer make any reference to Mazda and their well publized horsepower mistakes. I don't think this will be a large problem if VW contacts current owners to explain the situation, and tells people quite clearly what they can and can't do with the towing package (which I thought was quite clear anyway)


----------



## vlade31 (Oct 13, 2002)

*Re: (GT17V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_http://cbsnewyork.com/shamestories/


CHeck out the link u can watch the video there too..its pretty cool..couldnt stop laughing...







...finally someone busting the crooks at VW...although i do feel bad for the people who was decieved whether u will towing an airstream or not...


----------



## RAfA95 (Mar 11, 1999)

*Re: (Professor Gascan)*

Professor Gascan.... Check out the video and let us know what you think after seeing the tone of the report....



_Modified by RAfA95 at 7:54 PM 10-31-2003_


----------



## Rob in CT (Sep 15, 2003)

*Re: "SHAME ON YOU"......VW (RAfA95)*

So now James will buy a Suburban for the 3-4 times a year he needs to tow and unfortunately won't have the Touareg for the other 45 weeks.


----------



## bluvalley (Jul 20, 2003)

Actually, I bought a Lincoln Aviator. My first American car, and I have to say it's really great, more comfortable than the VW, better on gas, quieter, more powerful, 3 years of free maintenance, and 0% financing. And It pulls my Airstream with ease.
Good luck to everyone who might be experiencing the same problems I had.


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (bluvalley)*

I'm always confused by the Lincoln names versus their size. Isn't the Aviator the same as the Explorer? Or is it the Expedition size model, Or Excursion size?


----------



## pipes (Apr 7, 2000)

*Re: (spockcat)*

aviator is smaller, ala explorer.
navigator is expedition size and gets about 10-12mpg.


----------



## Coffeeman (Aug 8, 2003)

*Here is the link...*

http://cbsnewyork.com/shamesto....html


----------



## njtouareg (Jul 10, 2003)

*Re: (meatster)*

First off I think VW should have sent letters or called Touareg owners before the CBS show aired. There are only around 6600 toaureg owners across the county, so it's not like it would have been some huge mail merge project for VW. This is just another fine example of VW's crapy service. I feel extremely deceived and I feel like "gee what else are they [email protected]#" If people return their touaregs because of this and they had no intention of towing...so what, in my eyses VW committed fraud. Who wants to business with a company like that!
Ok, I think I got all my bitching out. Now is it possible for VW to make a new hitch, one that could handle the weight? Didn't they tell BlueVal if he put a different hitch on it would void the warranty? Well that leads me to believe that there are indeed other hitch products that would work...couldn't VW just make one themselves or team up with a company that does have them? Wouldn't this also help VW save some face by offering a product that is true to their ad....


----------



## meatster (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (njtouareg)*

Of course it would but if it takes them 5-10 days to return calls to their customers, how long do you think it would take them to design a new hitch to solve the problem?? They know what their limitations are and at this point returning people's money back is the only viable option for them;-) 
meat


----------



## njtouareg (Jul 10, 2003)

*Re: (meatster)*

Again, all good points Meat. 
I think CBS should do a Shame on You about their service too. I understand how bad it is, but what I just can't get through my head is that this is a huge global company...why can't they get their sh*t together????


----------



## mchatchet1 (Jul 2, 2002)

*Re: (vlade31)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vlade31* »_
CHeck out the link u can watch the video there too..its pretty cool..couldnt stop laughing...







...finally someone busting the crooks at VW...although i do feel bad for the people who was decieved whether u will towing an airstream or not...

While I do believe that VW did make a mistake with this, how about the salesperson/dealer who didn't ask him what his intentions were regarding towing. They weren't given the information If they had properly found out what he was going to tow, all of this could have been avoided. I sell VW's and I thank God I sold Jeep's before,so I knew a lot about towing before this. When VW introduced the Touareg, I went to anyone within my area management team to find out the whole story regarding towing ability(i.e. gvwr, tongue weight,etc.).
While I am glad VW is doing something for bluvalley, they never said the tongue weight would hold the trailer. They were taking a little extra room in their advertising(actually a lot of extra room)







. I am definately not taking VW's side. 
Good luck bluvalley with whatever you end up purchasing in the future. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WardO (Apr 7, 2000)

*T-Reg-Gate*

Not only does VW have poor service when you bring your defective T-Reg to the dealer, they now have lied to public re: its capabilities.


----------



## pipes (Apr 7, 2000)

*Re: T-Reg-Gate (WardO)*

-qoute: they now have lied to public re: its capabilities.
FYI: So has Mazda!, i.e. horsepower


----------



## OTTOG (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: (vlade31)*



vlade31 said:


> ...finally someone busting the crooks at VW...although i do feel bad for the people who was decieved
> Your prejudice and bad grammar go together. If indeed some poor schlub bought a Touareg to pull an airstream on the basis of a commercial, he is patholigically naive. To label a company as "crooked" for puffing makes you a perfect candidate for OSHA. Don't tell me, you're a government employee or a member of a union.


----------



## bluvalley (Jul 20, 2003)

Mr OTTOG,
I am far from "patholigically naive". I researched MANY vehicles before deciding on the Touareg, and I did not make my decision based on an advertisment. I based it on the actual specs for the vehicle which my Airstream came well within reaching. It was icing on the cake when I opened the Touareg brochure in the dealership the first time I checked out the car and there was a picture of the Touareg towing my EXACT model Airstream.
I am well aware of companies being guilty of faulty advertising but after reading virtually EVERY piece of information I could find on this car there wasn't a shred of evidence that hinted that this car could not tow my Airstream. 
Think about it. Why would anyone want to risk their own life as well as anyone else's by pulling a 4000 lb object at 60mph on the highway without making the right choice. . .


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (bluvalley)*

I have to agree with bluvalley on this one. I think that VW didn't do their homework. The German engineers just passed along the specs to the US guys based on German trailer standards without thinking about how US traliers are constructed. 
From what I could gather of the video, bluvalley's trailer was even within the rated specs of the car and it still didn't tow properly. 
Now all current Touareg owners will suffer with the slightly diminshed potential resale value of their cars (the resale to people who may want to pull large trailers has been killed). Will VW compensate us for this? I am waiting. Maybe a $1000 coupon towards a future VW/Audi purchase. Maybe a $750 instant rebate. We are all due something or VW needs to re-engineer their hitch to work to what the ad claimed it could accomplish. Plain and simple, it is false advertising.


----------



## Quick VW (Jan 20, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*

Damn!, I can't watch the video. I really need to though cause Kevin, a guy at my work just bought one for $48K.
I'm going to break his balls cause we use an Airstream as a hunting cabin and in a drunken state, I've moved it with my Honda 4 wheeler. Crazy wheelie with 3 guys sitting on the front rack, but it moved. Granted the airstream we have isn't as quite as big as the one in the commercial, but my 4 wheeler is no truck either.
I've been in Kevin's phatty Toureg though, and with the air adjustable ride, I find it hard to believe this is true. That thing feels like it could pull as much as my uncles F150 we use for the ****ty Airstream.


----------



## mweller (Oct 6, 2003)

*Re: (bluvalley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bluvalley* »_ I based it on the actual specs for the vehicle which my Airstream came well within reaching. 


Agree with you bluvalley in all cases except statement that Airstream tongue weight specs were "well within" range. 600lbs. is darn close to 616lbs but it IS within. I just want to make sure that it is the tongue weight that is the issue and not the total load weight. Is this correct?
There is no doubt, VW (in kind words) "mislead" us all on its capacity for towing.


----------



## mchatchet1 (Jul 2, 2002)

*Re: (mchatchet1)*

How many of you actually bought this vehicle to handle this kind of towing? I'm only taking a guess, but I would say that less than 2% of all Touareg owners are going to pull this kind of load. I will also go out on a limb and say that the Touareg will NOT suffer on resale value because of what the car has to offer. You all say that for the money, the Touareg is the best bang for the buck. Not one of you said that the price influenced the purchase based on towing(except for bluvalley).


----------



## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: (mweller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mweller* »_
Agree with you bluvalley in all cases except statement that Airstream tongue weight specs were "well within" range. 600lbs. is darn close to 616lbs but it IS within. I just want to make sure that it is the tongue weight that is the issue and not the total load weight. Is this correct?
There is no doubt, VW (in kind words) "mislead" us all on its capacity for towing.


I just saw the report... link is posted in another thread... the guy complaining bought a V8 touareg (you can tell by the rims) for $42K... the minimum V8 Touareg with air suspension is $44K... I don't think he had a Touareg with air suspension... the air suspension would have gone along way towards his main complaint...
Yes I believe it is the tongue weight issue... the hitch VW currently has the wrong rating....


----------



## bmw-vw (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_I have to agree with bluvalley on this one. I think that VW didn't do their homework. The German engineers just passed along the specs to the US guys based on German trailer standards without thinking about how US traliers are constructed. 
From what I could gather of the video, bluvalley's trailer was even within the rated specs of the car and it still didn't tow properly. 
Now all current Touareg owners will suffer with the slightly diminshed potential resale value of their cars (the resale to people who may want to pull large trailers has been killed). Will VW compensate us for this? I am waiting. Maybe a $1000 coupon towards a future VW/Audi purchase. Maybe a $750 instant rebate. We are all due something or VW needs to re-engineer their hitch to work to what the ad claimed it could accomplish. Plain and simple, it is false advertising.


i agree that some conpensation is in order from VW. Lexus encountered a similar situation with the GVWR of one of their suv's. they refunded peoples money if they wanted or they gave gift certificates to those that keep it which was good towards future service for the vehicle. VW needs to step up and learn from the pioneer of car companys that made it into the luxury segment.


----------



## RAfA95 (Mar 11, 1999)

*Re: T-Reg-Gate (pipes)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pipes* »_-qoute: they now have lied to public re: its capabilities.
FYI: So has Mazda!, i.e. horsepower

Apples and Oranges.... There is a big difference between these two situations....
Firstly..... Does the "Mass Populous" really care as much about Mazda....
Each day you go out on the road... count the amount of Mazda's you see vs. the amount of VW's you see.... VW's profile is a lot higher... so something like this will affect them a whole lot more than many others....
Secondly... You are talking about a "deception" or "mistake" (whatever) that changes you 0-60 time vs. one that can potentially Kill you and others around......
sorry... but I don't see the comparison.


----------



## mml7 (Dec 3, 1999)

*Re: (gizmopop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gizmopop* »_I just saw the report... link is posted in another thread... the guy complaining bought a V8 touareg (you can tell by the rims) for $42K... the minimum V8 Touareg with air suspension is $44K... I don't think he had a Touareg with air suspension... the air suspension would have gone along way towards his main complaint...
Yes I believe it is the tongue weight issue... the hitch VW currently has the wrong rating....

I'm not sure I quite understand your point here. AFAIK, VW makes no differentiation of towing capabilities between their V6, V8 or V10 models with or without Air Suspension. In theory, had VW correct spec'd the towing capacity, even a bare bones V6 should have been able to tow this Airstream.


----------



## TRegKnowItAll (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: (mml7)*

Not being able to see the video, Im going off the written artical. From what I have
gathered, the Touareg towing specs are what they are, and are not misleading.
However the trailer they are showing being towed exceeds those limits. Am I off here?
The print add and commerical may have been misleading, but had the sales person who
sold this truck know all the facts in reguards to towing, maybe the sale would have never
been completed.
I have never towed anything personally, but part of me wonders if you take the spec on any
truck on the road and put a trailer that is right at the max weight behind it, the results may
be less then ideal. Just like with any product, product adds will always tell the max on everything, even though you may get less then perfect results. 
But I have to agree with what was said above, how many of you that have bought a treg, made that choice with towing as the major deciding factor??


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (mchatchet1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mchatchet1* »_How many of you actually bought this vehicle to handle this kind of towing? I'm only taking a guess, but I would say that less than 2% of all Touareg owners are going to pull this kind of load. 

2% of $45000 = $900


----------



## vlade31 (Oct 13, 2002)

*Re: (OTTOG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OTTOG* »_


vlade31 said:


> ...finally someone busting the crooks at VW...although i do feel bad for the people who was decieved
> Your prejudice and bad grammar go together. If indeed some poor schlub bought a Touareg to pull an airstream on the basis of a commercial, he is patholigically naive. To label a company as "crooked" for puffing makes you a perfect candidate for OSHA. Don't tell me, you're a government employee or a member of a union.






vlade31 said:


> Sorry i didnt know there were english teachers in the forum...and u own a T-reg gee i wonder what makes u baised...the reason i used the word "crooked" is because i know how big VW is around the world...for VW to come out and say "oh we made a mistake" is a bunch BS..it can only mean two things either they are very stupid or they think their customers are stupid...and if u think this isn't such a big deal u fall under the latter because its about principle...atleast to me...and customer service is a freakin joke too...


----------



## SeaBiskit (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*

Quote, originally posted by mchatchet1 » 
How many of you actually bought this vehicle to handle this kind of towing? I'm only taking a guess, but I would say that less than 2% of all Touareg owners are going to pull this kind of load. 

_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
2% of $45000 = $900

Huh? What does that have to do with 2% of OWNERS actually towing that kind of load?


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (SeaBiskit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SeaBiskit* »_Huh? What does that have to do with 2% of OWNERS actually towing that kind of load?

Easy, if an average of 2% of owners (or potentail owners) would tow that load, and now they can't, or I can't sell my car to that market, then my car has lost 2% of its overall value. Besides, the $900 fits nicely into the $750 rebate or $1000 coupon towards future purchase that I suggested earlier.


----------



## denboathome (Nov 1, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*

OttoG makes a point. Perhaps Bluvalley meticulously researched specs but the Shame on You program made a big point of the advertising. Did anyone believe that a large Airstream trailer would cause a VW Bug to tip back on its rear wheels? Which part of that ad should you ignore and which part should you believe? Here in Colorado, you need pickemup trucks with loads of low end torque to haul boats & trailers. Maybe in New York you can use a Touareg.


----------



## SeaBiskit (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
Easy, if an average of 2% of owners (or potentail owners) would tow that load, and now they can't, or I can't sell my car to that market, then my car has lost 2% of its overall value. Besides, the $900 fits nicely into the $750 rebate or $1000 coupon towards future purchase that I suggested earlier.

A ha. Didn't see where you were going with that calculation.


----------



## RAfA95 (Mar 11, 1999)

*Re: (denboathome)*


_Quote, originally posted by *denboathome* »_
Did anyone believe that a large Airstream trailer would cause a VW Bug to tip back on its rear wheels? Which part of that ad should you ignore and which part should you believe? 

You don't ignore any part of the ad.... You form a conclusion from the ad... 
From this ad... you conclude that the Beetle can NOT tow the Airstream..... and that the Touareg CAN...!!!!


----------



## meatster (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (denboathome)*

Forget about the tv spot and even forget about the magazine ads. Just look in the t-reg sales brochure...
meat


----------



## denboathome (Nov 1, 2003)

*Re: (meatster)*

I guess you are not going to be a buyer.


----------



## denboathome (Nov 1, 2003)

*Re: (meatster)*

Oops. I see you already were a buyer. Sorry. Maybe you will be a plaintiff.


----------



## Murray249 (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: (meatster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *meatster* »_Synopsis (correct me if I fugged up anywhere):
1. James asked them if it could tow his airstream, VW said yes.
2. He buys it but finds out it can't despite a print add showing it towing the same sized airstream and a tv add showing it pulling a larger airstream.
3. James asks about putting a different hitch to solve the problem, VWoA says they will void his warranty.
4. James tries to get a solution or his money back from VW for weeks.
5. James calls Shame On You, they contact VWoA and do a satellite interview with a VWoA exec who says "it's out first SUV and our marketing guys wanted to show it doing something dramatic and may have overstated it a bit". He also says that VWoA is sending a letter out to all t-reg owners stating the true towing capabilities of the t-reg and said that VWoA is solving James's problem.
6. They buy the t-reg back and say they will refund peoples money back that felt deceived.
7. Tina, Ernie and Arnold pat themselves on the back for showing up VWoA.
The End
meat

_Modified by meatster at 11:50 PM 10-30-2003_

You forgot the most important one...James took what a salesman said at face value as well as what he saw on TV....WOW








Also James did not even know what the tongue weight of his trailer was...because if he did he would have realized that his trailer was ovber by more than 200#...I wonder why the T was porpoising a little with almost a ton pushing down on its back.


----------



## Murray249 (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: (bluvalley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bluvalley* »_Mr OTTOG,
I am far from "patholigically naive". I researched MANY vehicles before deciding on the Touareg, and I did not make my decision based on an advertisment. I based it on the actual specs for the vehicle which my Airstream came well within reaching. It was icing on the cake when I opened the Touareg brochure in the dealership the first time I checked out the car and there was a picture of the Touareg towing my EXACT model Airstream.
I am well aware of companies being guilty of faulty advertising but after reading virtually EVERY piece of information I could find on this car there wasn't a shred of evidence that hinted that this car could not tow my Airstream. 
Think about it. Why would anyone want to risk their own life as well as anyone else's by pulling a 4000 lb object at 60mph on the highway without making the right choice. . .

Youre right you are not patheically naive you are a liar...you now state that you knew what the tongue weight of your trailer was and still bought a car that didnt stand up. BTW the porsche was out for many months before and I am sure you looked at it also...guess what it is the same car basically and what do you know it has the same towing capacity...so cut the crap that you didnt know. I bet you are a lawyer


----------



## Murray249 (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_I have to agree with bluvalley on this one. I think that VW didn't do their homework. The German engineers just passed along the specs to the US guys based on German trailer standards without thinking about how US traliers are constructed. 
From what I could gather of the video, bluvalley's trailer was even within the rated specs of the car and it still didn't tow properly. 
Now all current Touareg owners will suffer with the slightly diminshed potential resale value of their cars (the resale to people who may want to pull large trailers has been killed). Will VW compensate us for this? I am waiting. Maybe a $1000 coupon towards a future VW/Audi purchase. Maybe a $750 instant rebate. We are all due something or VW needs to re-engineer their hitch to work to what the ad claimed it could accomplish. Plain and simple, it is false advertising.

and chevy/geo needs to make it possible to tow an 18 wheeler with the tracker or give my money back too.


----------



## Torags (Aug 18, 2003)

After the trailer tipped up the bug, the announcer says (affirmatively) this is a better idea. So it's not just the graphics you rely on.
Everyone is beating up the ad guys. Didn't they rely on the engineering dept who gave them the tongue capacity?


----------



## Professor Gascan (Sep 11, 2002)

What was the tongue weight of the trailer in question? What is the rated tongue weight of the VW hitch?


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (Murray249)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Murray249* »_
and chevy/geo needs to make it possible to tow an 18 wheeler with the tracker or give my money back too.

Murray,
In ads of this sort, they always have disclaimers. The VW ad has no disclaimer. Do you want me to email you a copy of the mpeg file so you can see that for yourself?


----------



## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: (mml7)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mml7* »_
I'm not sure I quite understand your point here. AFAIK, VW makes no differentiation of towing capabilities between their V6, V8 or V10 models with or without Air Suspension. In theory, had VW correct spec'd the towing capacity, even a bare bones V6 should have been able to tow this Airstream.


the air suspension is better at keeping the bouncing under control than the standard suspension...


----------



## mml7 (Dec 3, 1999)

*Re: (gizmopop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gizmopop* »_the air suspension is better at keeping the bouncing under control than the standard suspension...

Yes, perhaps, but VW does not mention this in their tow ratings. As the specs are published, it should NOT matter whether one has air or not and it should NOT matter whether one has a V6 or V8.


----------



## RAfA95 (Mar 11, 1999)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
Murray,
In ads of this sort, they always have disclaimers. The VW ad has no disclaimer. ?

EXACTLY!!!!! Just what I was thinking.....

There is NO disclamer that they could put on this ad that would make any kind of sense...


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: T-Reg-Gate (RAfA95)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RAfA95* »_
Apples and Oranges.... There is a big difference between these two situations....
Firstly..... Does the "Mass Populous" really care as much about Mazda....
Each day you go out on the road... count the amount of Mazda's you see vs. the amount of VW's you see.... VW's profile is a lot higher... so something like this will affect them a whole lot more than many others....
Secondly... You are talking about a "deception" or "mistake" (whatever) that changes you 0-60 time vs. one that can potentially Kill you and others around......
sorry... but I don't see the comparison.


For Mazda, with both the Miata AND RX-8, the cars made much less horsepower than advertised (even with the wheels to flywheel correction). What happen? Mazda took back and refunded the Miata and RX-8 owners their money and for the RX-8 gave them a $500 gift card.
The RX-8 made 20 less hp (manual) and 40 less hp (automatic)....that's a lot.
At least I know my Chevy Tracker can tow a tractor trailer


----------



## Murray249 (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
Murray,
In ads of this sort, they always have disclaimers. The VW ad has no disclaimer. Do you want me to email you a copy of the mpeg file so you can see that for yourself?

I've seen the commercial and all I have to say is that I would never buy a vehicle based on what someone said or what I saw on TV. I thought this forum would be full of very intelligent informed consumers...that was my impression anyways until bluvalley and another poster out in California both said that they bought the T based on this commercial...I asked the other poster what he used to tow it with and he quickly replied that he had already sold it (troll). I dont like to see america filling up with people who are out to sue or get something for nothing or try to get something based on making an uninformed decision. I think you were the one that said you should get money even though you did not buy for the towing capacity...it is not right...
I am not say that VW was right for deliberately trying to mislead us, but you remember what your mom said about two wrongs don't you.


_Modified by Murray249 at 4:13 PM 11-2-2003_


----------



## Murray249 (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: (RAfA95)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RAfA95* »_
EXACTLY!!!!! Just what I was thinking.....

There is NO disclamer that they could put on this ad that would make any kind of sense...


How about tow within the published limits. I bet if Bluvalley was honest with himself and put all his crap in the trailer and filled up the water tank that is typically located as far forward as possible to prevent "wagging" and then weighed the tongue it would exceed the 616# by a lot.
When I did that for my 21' Crownline cuddy I realized that I needed a car that would tow 6000# safely. Not the 3900# pounds that my boat says that it weighs. I ask people to be smart and take responsiblity for their action no matter what others are doing. I guess I am old fashioned but hey I am still in my twenties, maybe I was raised differently out west.

_Modified by Murray249 at 4:02 PM 11-2-2003_


_Modified by Murray249 at 4:03 PM 11-2-2003_


----------



## denboathome (Nov 1, 2003)

*Re: (Murray249)*

Here here. A man after my own heart. Isn't amazing how we have become a nation of finger pointers? My grandfathers are rolling over in their graves.


----------



## jojotreg (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: (Murray249)*

I still believe there are people on this website recruited by VW. who will go to any length to defend them- You must be one of them. 
Yeah Go ahead and deny it. And attack me.......


----------



## Murray249 (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: (jojotreg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jojotreg* »_I still believe there are people on this website recruited by VW. who will go to any length to defend them- You must be one of them. 
Yeah Go ahead and deny it. And attack me....... 

Actually I am in the business of defending your freedom to be a finger pointing american...on active duty...maybe that is where I get my sense of integrity
I dare you to reply


----------



## vlade31 (Oct 13, 2002)

*Re: T-Reg-Gate (GT17V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_
The RX-8 made 20 less hp (manual) and 40 less hp (automatic)....that's a lot.


first make sure u know your facts before u talk crap about other companies mazda said there is a 5% diff..which makes about 12hp less for the manual and even less change for the auto (which came with 210 hp to begin with)....and it didnt make CBS shame on you for them to start giving refunds


----------



## vlade31 (Oct 13, 2002)

*Re: (Murray249)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Murray249* »_
I dare you to reply

oh yea! thats really mature...this website cracks me up...i guess thats why i keep coming back


----------



## OTTOG (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: (jojotreg)*

I doubt that either Murray or Denboathome are "recruited" to do anything other than offer their honest observations about a societal problem exhibited when people pile on. Look what happened here: Volkswagen offers to give someone their money back on the strength of their representation that they justifiably relied upon misinformation. What happens? Do people applaud a good faith gesture? No. VW gets defamed as a "crook" and people fall over themselves to line up with their hands out, demanding satisfaction, whether or not they intend to tow so much as a radio flyer. Jacuse. That trait apparently offends Murray and Denboathome. Add me to that list. Oh, and by the way, thanks, Murray, for watching our backs out there.


----------



## pipes (Apr 7, 2000)

*Re: T-Reg-Gate (RAfA95)*

-quote: Secondly... You are talking about a "deception" or "mistake" (whatever) that changes you 0-60 time vs. one that can potentially Kill you and others around......

How many people in the US buy or are loured by cars with a good amount of horsepower, and how many people use HP as a decision factor?
I agree about the safety thing.


----------



## nj TDI fan (Feb 15, 2003)

Why hasn't anyone here mentioned the fact that most dealers don't do trailer set ups for just this reason? You have to go to a trailering expert and have it DOT certified, Yes? Am I wrong or is this only in NJ? There are too many variables to solve...
My .02 is that there are trailer guys, and there are SUV guys. Most trailer guys are "truck " guys and most SUV guys are "car" guys. A truck guy would never have made this mistake, and a car guy would never pull this weight with a SUV. What is the T-reg? An SUV or a Truck? Does it matter? 
Evidently in this case it does....


----------



## Torags (Aug 18, 2003)

"Why hasn't anyone here mentioned the fact that most dealers don't do trailer set ups for just this reason? You have to go to a trailering expert and have it DOT certified, Yes? Am I wrong or is this only in NJ? There are too many variables to solve..."
How do you reconcile dealers not installing factory tow hitches and then telling you will void your warranty, if you use an outside vendor.
Don't conclude their is a rational reason for the dealers when they may just be dumb as s**t about towing.
It is their responsibility to learn about the product they sell & they don't. Its sad..


----------



## Torags (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: (Murray249)*

You pose a good moral arguement.
But this is business, If VW don't eat now - they will eat it big time if someone dies.
That goes for Porsche too.


----------



## GOLFINI (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (Torags)*

If you buy based on a poster you are a duck. Haven't you seen athletic shoe ads where you can jump 20ft . Do you believe this. I've seen a motoring show on TV where a V10 Touareg pulled a 17 tonne combine harvester. But I'm not going to buy one to do it. Vlade31 can laugh but he can't laugh at Mazda. Same issue.


----------



## evlgreg (Jan 6, 2000)

*Re: (Murray249)*

Doesn't the ad say "when properly equipped"? I know it voids the warranty, but so would driving all day in 22 inches of water, it can do it, but it would fall under the "abuse" clause and it would also void the warranty.


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (evlgreg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evlgreg* »_Doesn't the ad say "when properly equipped"? 

NO, only disclaimer on the TV ad says: "may require towing mirrors". I have a copy of the ad on my computer and just viewed it.


----------



## nj TDI fan (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*

FYI -
December 2003 issue of "Trailer Boats" magazine has tow test of V8 Touareg with 6400 lb boat and trailer (600 lb tongue weight). Bottomline - they loved it. Closing comments "... VW not only created a vehicle tht can tow, but one that does so with vicious intent."


----------



## donaldvanw (May 5, 2003)

*Re: (nj TDI fan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nj TDI fan* »_FYI -
December 2003 issue of "Trailer Boats" magazine has tow test of V8 Touareg with 6400 lb boat and trailer (600 lb tongue weight). Bottomline - they loved it. Closing comments "... VW not only created a vehicle tht can tow, but one that does so with vicious intent."









Has anyone found a way to read that test on line? If so, please share.


----------



## corradokidg60 (May 14, 2002)

*Re: (GT17V)*

Shame shame shame on CBS2 for encoding their video in a horribly crappy format... jeeze. If they aren't going to use something nice and cross-platform friendly like QuickTime, at least use something like RealPlayer that's updated on both platforms.
The video played for me in OS X (10.3) with Windows Media Player, but it was all scrambled... at least I heard the audio. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: (corradokidg60)*

Panther, beautiful. It didn't work for me either, but then I was glad that it didn't. Probably wasn't worth seeing. So the marketing guys made a mistake, big deal. I thought the ads were funny and would have never taken them seriously anyway.








P.s.: That said, I'm not defending anyone or the dealers who didn't know c..p about what they were selling until this story hit the fan.


_Modified by sciencegeek at 5:33 AM 11-5-2003_


----------



## donaldvanw (May 5, 2003)

*Re: (donaldvanw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *donaldvanw* »_
Has anyone found a way to read that test on line? If so, please share.

Was looking for the trailer boat test.


----------



## Gus Polinski (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: (RAfA95)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RAfA95* »_
Yea.. That's pretty much it.....

The other car companies are gonna have a field day with this......

Actually, I think the other car companies are nervously reviewing their ad literature and tv campaigns.


----------



## jpinkert (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (jojotreg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jojotreg* »_I still believe there are people on this website recruited by VW. who will go to any length to defend them- You must be one of them. 
Yeah Go ahead and deny it. And attack me....... 

So you have nothing better to say than accuse people of representing VW...nice. How about everyone take responsibility for their actions? VW did. Gotta give them credit for owning up to it and offering options for those that feel cheated. I'd also bet that most here don't know a thing about trailers (not that I'm any authority). FYI, before attaching your trailer, you should always know what kind of tongue weight you're dealing with and have it balanced appropriately within spec. I prefer to have my tongue weight and overall tow capacity well below the vehicle maximums. Based on the loads some want to tow, I'd consider something bigger than the T-reg (longer wheelbase especially).


----------



## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: (jpinkert)*

Yeah I think the dealer itself has to own up to what they did. Telling the customer that his warranty would be voided if he went with an aftermarket hitch? 
1) They have to prove that the hitch itself caused the problem, if/when a problem arises. 
2) The dealer can say your hitch isn't covered by our warranty, in which case it falls under the hitch manufacturers warranty.
3) I've seen plenty of other VWs outfitted with third party hitches, I'm sure their warranty aren't in question.
4) VW could solve this by providing the appropriate hitch themselves...


----------

