# DSG Issue?



## chon.com (Nov 10, 2006)

Has anyone else had problems with their DSG tranny in their EOS. Ours is having very hard shifting problems. We had the meckatronics replaced, but the problem still persits and we have closed the 3rd RO on the vehicle and still issues shifting. Yesterday it felt like it went from 1st to nuetral then to 2nd and then wouldn't shift to 3rd and we almost got hit. Just curious if anyone else is having these same problems. Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
cheers










_Modified by chon.com at 11:39 PM 5-3-2007_


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## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: DSG Issue? (chon.com)*

chon.com, No we have about 15 k on ours and it shifts beautiful, smooth as silk, I cant drive 55 Doug


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## darien (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: DSG Issue? (minnvw)*

Same here. My Eos has about 7K miles now and DSG works like a charm. Again, the DSG shifts so much better and smoother than the normal automatic transmission on vehicles.


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: DSG Issue? (chon.com)*

6K. So far so good.. Slightly harder shift 1-2 and 2-3 under moderate acceleration but but ok once warmed up.
Andy


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## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

I've been good to 8800 miles...
I would question if the DSG assembly is the problem if it has been replaced it its entiretly already and the failure keeps occuring... but then again, I'm no VW mechanic either


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: DSG Issue? (cb391)*

Just to throw it in, Here's something that I've been wondering about.
VW has announced that the new generation of DSG will be 7 speeds and will use a dry twin clutch assembly, whereas the current geneartion uses a wet twin clutch assembly.
There is a rather expensive maintenence procedure every 40K miles to change DSG clutch fluid and filter. Although the newer DSG may eliminate this maintenence requirement, the fluid (I'm guessing) would also serve to cool the twin clutch assembly (or at least act as a heat sink) and dampen vibration which would prolong the life of the twin clutch assembly. So quite frankly, I'm wondering if a DSG with a dry clutch is a step in the right direction or not.
Also related, Borg-Warner broke ground on a second DSG plant in Germany to meet growing demand.
http://www.autospies.com/news/...14770/


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## chon.com (Nov 10, 2006)

*Re: DSG Issue? (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

We have 7K on the EOS as of last night. We took it in and they said they can not find the problem at all so I guess we are gonna wait till it gets much worse to take it in. Im kind of hoping for a new Tranny since they said that was the next step if infact the mechatranics did not fix the shifting problem.


_Modified by chon.com at 11:39 PM 5-3-2007_


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: DSG Issue? (chon.com)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chon.com* »_Yesterday it felt like it went from 1st to nuetral then to 2nd and then would shift to 3rd and we almost got hit. 



_Quote, originally posted by *chon.com* »_We took it in and they said they can not find the problem at all so I guess we are gonna wait till it gets much worse to take it in. 

This sounds like a dangerous situation! I wouldn't drive it like this. I would leave the car at the dealer until they can fix it or replace the transmission. I'm not sure what "mechatranics" is but if replacing the electronics does not make a difference that they need to be looking at the mechanical assemblies, gearbox, clutch ect.


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## chon.com (Nov 10, 2006)

*Re: DSG Issue? (solarflare)*

The Mechatronics is the control module and valve system for the DSG from what I have been told and what I have seen. I used to work for the dealer and my girlfriend works there still so we are there daily. We also live about 2 mins from the dealer so we just dont drive too far away. I want a new DSG tranny and I have felt that way every since it started shifting hard since I didnt want any mechanical pieces to be damaged and would feel better with a new tranny since I know it wouldnt have pieces of metal floating around. So hopefully they can duplicate what has been happening to us and we can get a new tranny in the EOS.
I still love the hell out of this car just for the record. It is one of the best cars VW has put out. This is just a bump in the road and its early which is nice since it happened now instead of later. I love the EOS!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: DSG Issue? (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Unless they use more than one type of fluid I would suspect that the same fluid is circulated throughout the trans to also lubricate the gear clusters. So a change of filter and fluid would be as normal as any automatic trans. I don't know what the cost on an Eos would be for this service but the dealer where my daughter bought her Chevy quoted her $249. I had this done on my Ford Escape at 35k by the dealer and they charged me $150. I suspect the new dry clutch pack for the seven speed will react faster with less slip. The fluid is used as cooling as it is circulated through its own radiator (again compared to automatic trans operation).
Andy


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## Shaka (May 20, 2001)

*Re: DSG Issue? (chon.com)*

What you describe is like a moment of lag, but a pretty long moment of no forward movement/accel. While that is not something we've had issues with, I have noticed when I drive the car hard in regulra "D" mode that it often lingers when shifting. However in sport of manual shifting modes, the car snaps between gears apparently faster. Although it may be my head, or the faster acceleration.
I think the DSG tends to up-shift earlier than I would in a manual transmission car, even when not driving aggresively. And because of this I think the 'sensation of delay' that many people mistake as being in neutral/etc is actually just a moment where the car is at such a low RPM that the acceleration is declined, but you are still moving along and accelerating just not as swiftly.
Try driving the car around in sport mode a bit and see if the same issues persist. But be wary of sport in that I have noticed it never seems to find 6th gear on the expressway, which could make for poor gas mileage on long trips if you stay in that mode.


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## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

i kinda doubt if all you need is a new tranny theyd give you a new car? woudnt make much sense to me?


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## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: DSG Issue? (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_
VW has announced that the new generation of DSG will be 7 speeds and will use a dry twin clutch assembly, 


 Wolf, I agree with you on this one, I was always under the impression that the 6 speed DSG was the best thing, since the invention of tolet paper? It sure didnt last long , I wonder how they can afford this major change , when the old one was suppose to be so good? Me too , Ive sure been happy with the 6 speed. I have had heavy equipment with both dry and wet clutches, and there was no comparison, the wet was superior ,run cooler, lasts longer, few adjustments, oh well what do we know? ha Doug


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: DSG Issue? (minnvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *minnvw* »_  I was always under the impression that the 6 speed DSG was the best thing, since the invention of tolet paper? 

Sort of expanding on my earlier thoughts, the new DSG was announced along with a new 1.4TFSI engine which is supposed to replace the 1.4L twin-charger (supercharged and turbocharged) engine. The newer 7 speed DSG's may turn out to be for very small engines to make the best power/driveability/economy out of a very small engine. Also, the new DSG is supposed to handle up to 250 lb/ft of torque, which means that it can be mated to engines all the way up to the 3.2L VR6, so it can go either way.
Also keep in mind what a DSG is. The twin clutch assembly comes from Borg-Warner, but they work with a transmission partner. In Volkswagens case its Getrag, so its really Getrag who is working on the 7 speed part of the equation. Borg-Warner is on the clutch end of the equation, and they must have recently developed a new clutch friction material that makes the dry clutch assembly possible.
Borg-Warner is also working with other transmission partners around the world (even Chinese) to implement their dual clutch technology with other automobile manufacturers, and their individual transmission suppliers.
Its worth pointing out that this is the problem with VW being the earlier adoptor of dual clutch technology. There's always going to be a learning curve in the beginning of any new technology, and significant changes like this are always a possibility. I just hope its actually an improvement, and not planned obsolescence.



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 12:49 AM 5-4-2007_


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## chon.com (Nov 10, 2006)

*Re: DSG Issue? (Shaka)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Shaka* »_What you describe is like a moment of lag, but a pretty long moment of no forward movement/accel. While that is not something we've had issues with, I have noticed when I drive the car hard in regulra "D" mode that it often lingers when shifting. However in sport of manual shifting modes, the car snaps between gears apparently faster. Although it may be my head, or the faster acceleration.
I think the DSG tends to up-shift earlier than I would in a manual transmission car, even when not driving aggresively. And because of this I think the 'sensation of delay' that many people mistake as being in neutral/etc is actually just a moment where the car is at such a low RPM that the acceleration is declined, but you are still moving along and accelerating just not as swiftly.
Try driving the car around in sport mode a bit and see if the same issues persist. But be wary of sport in that I have noticed it never seems to find 6th gear on the expressway, which could make for poor gas mileage on long trips if you stay in that mode.


It deffinately lags, but then shifts very hard and very rough and sometimes it doesnt lag at all, but just shifts super hard like someone that sucks at driving a stick. We have driven the car in Sport mode as well and the problem still continues. The only time the problem doesnt continue is when I use the manual shifting option. Its all kind of frustrating, but it will get fixed. I was expecting something to not be perfect since its a first model year vehicle and all. I still love the EOS. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Cheers


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## Gadgeteer1066 (Jul 28, 2006)

I have an Eos with DSG, now done 3,000 miles no problems. Also have a Golf, also with DSG, now done 36,000 also no problems. The DSG is widely available on a range of cars and, as far as I know, doesn't seem to suffer from any great reliability issues.
The Eos is new, DSG is not. Any individual car can suffer a problem, and this specific one needs fixing, But let's not start saying DSG is rubbish and to prove it there's a new better version coming out. Let's keep a sense of proportion. I would hate this to turn into another 'The Eos is crap because they all have rubbish roofs that leak and squeak all the time' issue that ends up in the general media who use it to bash the car.


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## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: (Gadgeteer1066)*

I have 30,000 miles on my DSG and never a hiccup. About 29,000 of the 30,000 miles have been chipped as well. Chipped in a TDI means boatloads of torque and the DSG has handled it just fine.


_Modified by Pelican18TQA4 at 12:47 AM 5-14-2007_


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (Pelican18TQA4)*

I should have linked to the official VW press release about the 7 speed DSG earlier, but here it is anyway...
http://media.vw.com/article_di...10132


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## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

One thing I didn't pick up on with the new 7-speed DSG, is its limited torque. According to the VW press release it's rated at a maximum torqure of 250 nm. That's only about 185 lb-ft. The current 6-speed DSG is rated at 350 nm which is 258 lb-ft.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: DSG Issue? (chon.com)*

Chon:
Perhaps ask your VW dealer to 'reset' the learned memory in your transmission. Most VW transmissions use fuzzy logic to adapt to the unique driving preferences of the owner. It is possible that your transmission might just have a slightly screwed up memory (think of it as the car equivalent of a 'preferences' file)... so, ask them to reset it, to clear the memory, and see if that solves the problem. This fix has worked for a few Phaeton owners in the past.
If the dealer is not familiar with how to do this, they can call the Techline for support. I believe that the Eos procedure is the same as any other VW... just enter and save a value of 0 (zero) in channel 00 of the transmission controller adaptation settings.
While they are at it, have them double and triple check that the transmission controller is properly coded to your vehicle.
There has been one technical bulletin issued for the DSG transmission in the Eos - you can read about it here: DSG Transmission- Intermittent Engagement Delay Upon Acceleration (TB 37-06-07). Perhaps discuss this TB with your service manager. I don't know if it would apply to your car or not, but it is certainly worth investigating all the "easy" troubleshooting possibilities before getting into more complex stuff such as replacing the thing.
Michael


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## chon.com (Nov 10, 2006)

*Re: DSG Issue? (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Chon:
Perhaps ask your VW dealer to 'reset' the learned memory in your transmission. Most VW transmissions use fuzzy logic to adapt to the unique driving preferences of the owner. It is possible that your transmission might just have a slightly screwed up memory (think of it as the car equivalent of a 'preferences' file)... so, ask them to reset it, to clear the memory, and see if that solves the problem. This fix has worked for a few Phaeton owners in the past.
If the dealer is not familiar with how to do this, they can call the Techline for support. I believe that the Eos procedure is the same as any other VW... just enter and save a value of 0 (zero) in channel 00 of the transmission controller adaptation settings.
While they are at it, have them double and triple check that the transmission controller is properly coded to your vehicle.
There has been one technical bulletin issued for the DSG transmission in the Eos - you can read about it here: DSG Transmission- Intermittent Engagement Delay Upon Acceleration (TB 37-06-07). Perhaps discuss this TB with your service manager. I don't know if it would apply to your car or not, but it is certainly worth investigating all the "easy" troubleshooting possibilities before getting into more complex stuff such as replacing the thing.
Michael


They called techline and ended up reseting the learned memory which caused much larger problems to the point where the car would not shift unless i shifted it in manual mode. they ended up doing the OY update over again and doing some other stuff along with replacing the mechatronics, but the hard or delayed shifting is still a problem. Hopefully they will end up fixing it cause its about to see a different dealership and I know they will find the problem since they love making money. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thanks for your input I will have to have a conversation with the Serive manager or advisor.
cheers


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## EOSmage (Feb 9, 2007)

I don't know if VW is the same, however, I had a <shudder> Ford Explorer at one point. It had <shudder> major transmission issues. I ended up having a rebuild once and two "factory new" installed over a two month period.
At one point, they told me that they had just finished "installing" a new one, and that they didn't yet have time to do the programming of the computer. They gave me a two page document that detailed how to "teach" the computer about the transmission.
I don't have the document handy right now, however, it was step-by-step detailed and consisted of very detailed instructions. "turn off and then on car. Shift to "d" and drive 10 km/h for 5 minutes, then increase speed to 30 km/h." etc etc etc
It was a real long set of instructions. At the end, it provided a "if you are interrupted during this process, please reset and start again by performing the following:".
I wonder if there is something that is needed for "teaching" the VW computers about the shifting points, etc. I know that when I first started, it shifted really hard and I was worried about the tranny. But it seemed to settle down during the process and was certainly smooth after it was done.
Of course, the Explorer had/has some serious transmission issues... This may just be a Ford Explorer "only" document.
--Jon


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## chon.com (Nov 10, 2006)

*Re: (EOSmage)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EOSmage* »_I don't know if VW is the same, however, I had a <shudder> Ford Explorer at one point. It had <shudder> major transmission issues. I ended up having a rebuild once and two "factory new" installed over a two month period.
At one point, they told me that they had just finished "installing" a new one, and that they didn't yet have time to do the programming of the computer. They gave me a two page document that detailed how to "teach" the computer about the transmission.
I don't have the document handy right now, however, it was step-by-step detailed and consisted of very detailed instructions. "turn off and then on car. Shift to "d" and drive 10 km/h for 5 minutes, then increase speed to 30 km/h." etc etc etc
It was a real long set of instructions. At the end, it provided a "if you are interrupted during this process, please reset and start again by performing the following:".
I wonder if there is something that is needed for "teaching" the VW computers about the shifting points, etc. I know that when I first started, it shifted really hard and I was worried about the tranny. But it seemed to settle down during the process and was certainly smooth after it was done.
Of course, the Explorer had/has some serious transmission issues... This may just be a Ford Explorer "only" document.
--Jon

Im certified with Ford and I know of this type of proceedure. They have the same sort of thing for brakes and noise vibration diag and some other things as well. Im not sure if VW does this, but I doubt it since Ford seems to have some kind of ways of going about a problem. I do like VW much more then Fords hence they dont break to the same degree I have scene Fords break haha. EOS issue is becoming a week by week process since they havent seen this issue much here.
cheers








EOS FTW http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## archiea (Nov 29, 2006)

*Re: (chon.com)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chon.com* »_
Im certified with Ford and I know of this type of proceedure. They have the same sort of thing for brakes and noise vibration diag and some other things as well. Im not sure if VW does this, but I doubt it since Ford seems to have some kind of ways of going about a problem. I do like VW much more then Fords hence they dont break to the same degree I have scene Fords break haha. EOS issue is becoming a week by week process since they havent seen this issue much here.
cheers








EOS FTW http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

any suggestion for a 2004 ford thunderbird owner being that you have 'inside" information. i know the frog tranny is the weakest link....


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## chon.com (Nov 10, 2006)

*Re: (archiea)*


_Quote, originally posted by *archiea* »_any suggestion for a 2004 ford thunderbird owner being that you have 'inside" information. i know the frog tranny is the weakest link....

What is your problem your having?


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## archiea (Nov 29, 2006)

*Re: (chon.com)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chon.com* »_
What is your problem your having?

A couple of things:
The rear plastic bumper, along the sides of the vehicle, as a couple of fit problems, and has what looks like "dents" along the side, even though its plastic. 
After a long drive (like 150+ miles) along a canyon road, I was using the engine to slow down the car. It wa still very mild use, no hard shifting. after the ride parked the car for an hour and then resumed driving. I noticed that thrid gear engaged a little hard as did fourth, but not has hard as Third. i drove a short distance, retired for the night, the next morning the problem was gone. 
this is a 2004, so i thinkit has that mid year change to the Reverse solenoid or something, that required the TSB to add the addative to the tranny fluid. 
other than that, the car is stellar!


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## chon.com (Nov 10, 2006)

*Re: (archiea)*


_Quote, originally posted by *archiea* »_A couple of things:
The rear plastic bumper, along the sides of the vehicle, as a couple of fit problems, and has what looks like "dents" along the side, even though its plastic. 
After a long drive (like 150+ miles) along a canyon road, I was using the engine to slow down the car. It wa still very mild use, no hard shifting. after the ride parked the car for an hour and then resumed driving. I noticed that thrid gear engaged a little hard as did fourth, but not has hard as Third. i drove a short distance, retired for the night, the next morning the problem was gone. 
this is a 2004, so i thinkit has that mid year change to the Reverse solenoid or something, that required the TSB to add the addative to the tranny fluid. 
other than that, the car is stellar!

I can try and find a TSB on it. You might need fluid, but its kind of new what is the miliage like?


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## chon.com (Nov 10, 2006)

*Re: (chon.com)*

Alrighty so Update on the DSG. They wiped it all out and the problem still exsits. They keep trying new things with techline and we are on the 3rd RO. The VW tech said he wants to put a new DSG tranny in the EOS and techline said deffinately not going to do that till they are done testing it.


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## Double0SevenGti (Sep 30, 2006)

*Re: (chon.com)*

I had THe Mecha unit replaced in Jan. (mine is a GTI) it didnt do a thing,. the car would still code out ( go into an emergency mode with flashing [ PRNDS] ). 

And the Dealer ended up replacing my Trans. NO updated software in the new trans. and a Slight Grinding noise is coming from the new trans. 
Best of luck


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## chon.com (Nov 10, 2006)

*Re: (Double0SevenGti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Double0SevenGti* »_ I had THe Mecha unit replaced in Jan. (mine is a GTI) it didnt do a thing,. the car would still code out ( go into an emergency mode with flashing [ PRNDS] ). 

And the Dealer ended up replacing my Trans. NO updated software in the new trans. and a Slight Grinding noise is coming from the new trans. 
Best of luck










We are already lookin at a buy back from VW under the Arizona state lemon law since we just closed our 3rd RO. I dont want to get rid of the car since I love the interior and color with all the options we got, but they just dont want to replace anything. All tech line wants to do is keep changing settings which now have made the car slugish and slow! The car now barely gets up to speed at times. You can put 75% throttle on and the car doesnt go anywhere and then out of no where downshifts and takes off. Im begining to dislike tech line very much!!!


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## Double0SevenGti (Sep 30, 2006)

*Re: (chon.com)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chon.com* »_

We are already lookin at a buy back from VW under the Arizona state lemon law since we just closed our 3rd RO. I dont want to get rid of the car since I love the interior and color with all the options we got, but they just dont want to replace anything. All tech line wants to do is keep changing settings which now have made the car slugish and slow! The car now barely gets up to speed at times. You can put 75% throttle on and the car doesnt go anywhere and then out of no where downshifts and takes off. Im begining to dislike tech line very much!!!

Have you filed the complaint with the BBB regarding these issues?
In the back of the owners manual you will find a # for the BBB auto line, You will have to file a dispute and go through a mediation / arbitration hearing with VWoA and the BBB. 
Just a Heads up, VW will not attend...... 
I went through arbitration, and now am off to file with the Local Division of consumer protection. 

> Good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## archiea (Nov 29, 2006)

Yeah i never understood that about cars... I mean if the tranny comes out of the factory pretty much busted as you described, why is the customer 
1) at best, issued a refurbished car after paying full price and waiting sometimes weeks for the repair
2) not just given a new car. The factgory take back the old one, throw it into the shop and work the defect into a revision in the following years... do whatever they ahve to do with the car, perhaps sell it later as a refurb, but DO NOT involve the customer in the R&D process of the freakin; car... the customer paid for a final product, not to be a crash test dummy in the car.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Laws written for businesses*

I agree and the only answer I can think of is that the companies do it because they can.

_Quote, originally posted by *archiea* »_Yeah i never understood that about cars... I mean if the tranny comes out of the factory pretty much busted as you described, why is the customer 
1) at best, issued a refurbished car after paying full price and waiting sometimes weeks for the repair
2) not just given a new car. The factgory take back the old one, throw it into the shop and work the defect into a revision in the following years... do whatever they ahve to do with the car, perhaps sell it later as a refurb, but DO NOT involve the customer in the R&D process of the freakin; car... the customer paid for a final product, not to be a crash test dummy in the car.


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## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (archiea)*


_Quote, originally posted by *archiea* »_Yeah i never understood that about cars... I mean if the tranny comes out of the factory pretty much busted as you described, why is the customer 
1) at best, issued a refurbished car after paying full price and waiting sometimes weeks for the repair
2) not just given a new car. The factgory take back the old one, throw it into the shop and work the defect into a revision in the following years... do whatever they ahve to do with the car, perhaps sell it later as a refurb, but DO NOT involve the customer in the R&D process of the freakin; car... the customer paid for a final product, not to be a crash test dummy in the car. 

 I totally agree with arch, chon.com has been more than patient with those service people, when hes pays big money for a new car , expecting something that reliable and ready to roll, a person should have to put up with that, he could of bought a used car if he wanted all the problems. I would rattle their cage big time at this point, runs some adds in the paper , park it out front on the street , big sign telling the public what a piece of crap they sold you, in front of the dealership , good luck Doug


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## archiea (Nov 29, 2006)

*Re: (chon.com)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chon.com* »_
I can try and find a TSB on it. You might need fluid, but its kind of new what is the miliage like?

like 21K miles... thanks BTW...


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