# dissapointed with my 2.0T !



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

ok you all prabably know my specs but here they are...
94 aba block
stacked gaskets
stock head /w diy polishing
270 cam
034efi stageI c
k26/to4e 57trim stage3, .6ar, 3" inlet
audi 5k exhaust manifold
audi 5k intercooler
audi 5k wastegate
custom manderal 2.5" dp
TT 2.5" /w dual res+borla
65lb injectors @ 3bar
aeromotive stunami pump
-6 fuel feed line
now im sure there is some more tweeking with the software but that can only do so much, im running about a flat 12-12.5 af/r under boost (15psi)
and i run perfect high 14's-low 15's while at part throttle....
the problem is im just not feelin' it. i got my butt handed to me by a stock 350z /w hondata and a 100 wet shot... which is like what, about a grand of engine mods... and im into the 5-6grand range








then up against a crx that was boosted @ 7psi + 50shot single cam 1.6L and took me by .2 seconds








i dunno, my launch and 60ft' is great but i just have NO top end past 5krpm, and if i mess with the cam i can barely get the turbo to spool but once it does i have alot more top end, but i can barely get that sucker to boost in 3rd gear, so i gotta keep the cam retarted a little bit.
same problem with the stock cam but worse, and trust me i've played with the timing alot!
needless to say, i need a higher flowing head, i've just reached the limit of the 8v head, i know this because the difference between 15psi, and a few runs i tried with 20psi, i can feel little to no extra power (now im just going by that, im sure with some tweaking and such a few more hp can be had) but the point is im not really reaching the goal i was hoping for, and the most cost effective way for me to reach it would be to swap out the 8v for a 20v head.
also the other problem i have is the transmission, the 9a is just WAY to short! for this kinda power


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## SSj4G60 (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_, i've just reached the limit of the 8v head, i know this because the difference between 15psi, and a few runs i tried with 20psi, i can feel little to no extra power 

have you gotten it dynoed yet ? what have you trapped at. i doubt your at the limit of the 8v head i think atleast 1 or 2 guys have gotten over 300whp on a stock xflow head


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

and what kinda power is this?


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## turboed'97 (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: (turbodub)*

ditch the cam and go with the stock one. i was able to get real power out of my 2.0t till i had some serious work done with ignition timing.cam timing has very minimal effects. 


_Modified by turboed'97 at 3:42 AM 6-23-2005_


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## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

I agree with '97 ^ ^ a 270 cam has WAY to much valve overlap etc.. Stock cam is the best or the autotech 260 at MOST... I say put the stock cam back in ASAP!


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## TheVolksracer (May 26, 2004)

*Re: (JettaGLSick)*

Or do what those other cars did














50 shot of naaaaaaaawwwwwzzzzzzz


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## JettaMatt (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I got TTs 268/260 in my 8v, it hits full boost by 3250 in every gear.


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (JettaMatt)*

I have run all kinds of cams on my 2l turbo and the one that worked the best was the TT 268.This was the straight 268 not the whooptie G60 cam.All this stuff about overlap is total BS unless your trying to run 10k rpm on your 8v.


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## 2slo4me (Dec 23, 2003)

yea the 270 cam is too much duration on my vr supercharged i had a 268 and it ran funnny just throw ina a stock cam and up the boost see how that works im sure ull be satisfied then if u do throw in another cam make sure its 260 or less


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

Please post some 1/4mi MPH or some dyno results so we can see this limit you've reached.
or was
>>and i run perfect high 14's-low 15's while at part throttle....<<
you're ET and not AFR's?


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_ which is like what, about a grand of engine mods... and im into the 5-6grand range









yeah but he has car payments, higher insurance and that's most likely his daily driver.
Anyway...I seriously don't think you've found the limit of an 8V x-flow head. Granted you could make more power with more valves at the same boost but I wouldn't toss it yet.
If you have some extra cash...hit up a dyno....and a weigh scale....that will answer a TON of questions.
L8r...


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (vdubspeed)*

i think this is a bad case of late night illegal street driving by a ***** wannabe.
i could be wrong, but statments like 
"i have a good 60ft" but no numbers to back it up
"i run consistent 14's and 15's at part throttle"
being dissapointed because your not keeping up with "joe blow's" car

all lead me to believe you have no idea whats going on.
sorry man, i dont normally tear into people, but your talking total nonsence. 
reading how you reached the limit of the 8v head just makes me laugh. your running 20psi and have great 60ft's but hit a 15 trap?
that means your either full of it, or have no idea what your talking about.(could be both).


_Modified by speed51133! at 6:41 AM 6-23-2005_


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (SSj4G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SSj4G60* »_
have you gotten it dynoed yet ? what have you trapped at. i doubt your at the limit of the 8v head i think atleast 1 or 2 guys have gotten over 300whp on a stock xflow head 

with a terrible 60ft of like 2.6 i was running about 19psi and my 1/4 mile was 14.3 @ 105
this was a stock suspension, crap tires, 16in wheels, stock aba, 2 head gaskets.
i would imagine with a 60ft as good as this dude is getting id be dippin into the 13's for sure.
this was in a 1998 mk3 jetta by the way, full interior.
i dyno'd it at like 255hp on a dynojet with the same settings. I am very confident with a better suspension, more dyno time, and some minor tweaking I can break 300hp and get mid 13's.


_Modified by speed51133! at 6:47 AM 6-23-2005_


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (the4ork)*


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Hardcore VW)*








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
dood, trust me you didnt hit the point where your head doesnt flow anymore, i can shilack a 350Z by numerous buslenghts. Hell i handed a SRT-6 its ass by a buss or two. Ive got less displacement and all stock specs oh and OBD2 aba head so go figure.








but im not using a autotech 270 cam i wouldnt be that foolish.







268/260 TT G60 cam, or no cam.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Hardcore VW)*

i was talkin AFR's and my 1/4mi and ET times will be left to myself b/c you guys enjoy bashing peoples times too much and take the facts way too seriously.
14-15 AFR's as in, air fuel ratio on the techedge wideband, just to clarify.
also i have switched between the stock cam and the 270 cam a few times at the same boost levels to butt dyno the difference. the 270 pulls waaay harder up top but my spool up time is later, but quicker. on the stock cam i feel alot less power above 5krpm, but alot of power off and into boost, as soon as it hits though power goes to poop compared to the 270, i've messed with cam timing a little, a few degrees on both, but i've messed with ignition timing quite a bit and it does make alot of difference. there was definately alot more power to be had when i first started tuning it and the car feels a whole heck of alot faster after countless hours of fine tuning the afr, mid 12's in boost, and 14-15's at part throttle. i feel very confident in my afr's and the plugs show it as well. after wot/part throttle driving the plugs looked perfect, and continue to still look perfect.
i just wish i had more power, today i boosted 20psi for a few pulls through the gears and the car seems a bit quicker, especially at the end of 3rd gear.
im just very weary on boosting more than 15psi (normally, or even while at the track) on stock internals. however with really good afr's it kinda makes me want to. however, then in the back of my mind i picture my 020 with this face on it







lol
so i dunno, the car is a blast to drive, and yes im still learning to drive it a little bit, especially since the clutch is starting to hook up ALOT more than it did! i've got the launch controll dialed in pertty good, im running slicks with completely hacked out set of fenders. i DO need a new trans + lsd, the 020 has been recently pulled tonight to put in a buddies car before i grenade it. i have an 02a cable clutch waiting install, i just need an 02a. im deployed right now, so the car will have to wait until september, by then i should have a game plan of what i want to do with it.


_Modified by the4ork at 12:16 AM 6-24-2005_


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (the4ork)*

also my IAT's are gettin a little high, im running in the yellow, off the top of my head i dont know for sure what the temp is. but does 45C sound right?
maybe matt or wiz could chime in, i dont remember. its not to the point to where the ecu starts pulling timing though, i checked that out in my timing map.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_needless to say, i need a higher flowing head, i've just reached the limit of the 8v head

I guess we can figure from that that you're,making high 300/low 400hp since that's what other people have run on an 8v head.


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_also the other problem i have is the transmission, the 9a is just WAY to short! for this kinda power

I guess we can use that to figure out how fast your going,we got a rabbit into the 10's back in 1999 on a 9a so if you're already at the limits of the trans, So between already finding the limits of the 8v head and the 9a tranny,you're probably hauling some serious ass!


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Hardcore VW)*

whatever, i dont even know why i ask anymore.
20v head, good cams, same boost and im sure i'll be happy. if not i have a wet setup with my name on it


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Hardcore VW)*

i dont even know why i ask anymore.
20v head, good cams, same boost and im sure i'll be happy. if not i have a wet setup with my name on it 
how much boost was 400whp made on the 8v? and im sure it was solid lifter, reved to 8k with a bigger turbo ect. might as well gotten a 20v head and some cams. but im an 8v junky and i'd like to keep it, i guess i just need to pour a few g's into the head


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (the4ork)*

edit: sorry i read your second post...
sounds odd tho, that your AFR could be perfect and timing and yet your making little power


_Modified by LagunaSecaBlueMK3 at 5:05 PM 6-23-2005_


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (LagunaSecaBlueMK3)*

it has to be timing, especially on the stock cam... i havent played with it enough to the point of detonation/pinging, its still conservative. i can tell what little i've played with it has made alot of difference. i just dont think theirs THAT much more i can do to the timing to really make a signifigant difference. when i get the 02a in there i'll take it to a dyno so i can really tell with the timing, and to double check my afr curve. also i think im going to try to trade the 270 for something a little smaller, would be a good deal for the other guy, it has barely any miles on it, and they get a bigger cam out of the deal http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
im not ready to give up yet, i'll give the cam plus dyno and timing and see what kind of numbers i can come up with. i'd like to hit 300whp on pump gas, and have the ability to switch back down to 200whp on a seperate map with conservative timing and higher afr's at part throttle (daily map)
we'll see what i can come up with. in the mean time i need a solid drivetrain


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

Since I'm done breaking your balls for being an ******* to me in other posts. I'll say that timing is everything and usually what seperates a typical parts hanger from someone that's happy with what they've done. There's very few people that have their timing curve right from what I see posted around here.


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

whats your total timing?
whats your timing @6000?


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (the4ork)*

Just for the record,if you haven't modified that Audi5k IC I'd be giving it some dirty looks if I were you.


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## Fox-N-It (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_Just for the record,if you haven't modified that Audi5k IC I'd be giving it some dirty looks if I were you.

Modify by ditching it would be the best way. Audi 5k intercoolers are a poorly designed POS. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_
1.270 cam
2.audi 5k exhaust manifold
3.audi 5k intercooler
4.65lb injectors @ 3bar

Dont know why you upgraded the Pump when the stock CIS unit will do just fine but hey here goes my take.
1.Wrong Cam.Get the 260* CAM.
2.You upgraded the turbo to a K26/T04E when you couldve got yourself a T3/T04E.If you needed an ATP manifold I have 1 or 2 lieing around somewhere that just need the broken studs taken out of them or you couldve had one made for under $300
3. Waste of time.Get a proper unit....look @ the deals going on in the classifieds.Getting FI parts has never been this cheap..
Both you and arturo are running relatively similar specs except his bottom end has ARP hardware and forged stuff througout (not like it matters).He seems to be happy with his 300+ so my advice is get to a dyno and lets see what its putting down.I am betting your @ 190whp.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Fox-N-It)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fox-N-It* »_
Modify by ditching it would be the best way. Audi 5k intercoolers are a poorly designed POS. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

we went low 11's on them on a budget thanks though.


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Dont know why you upgraded the Pump when the stock CIS unit will do just fine but hey here goes my take.
1.Wrong Cam.Get the 260* CAM.
2.You upgraded the turbo to a K26/T04E when you couldve got yourself a T3/T04E.If you needed an ATP manifold I have 1 or 2 lieing around somewhere that just need the broken studs taken out of them or you couldve had one made for under $300
3. Waste of time.Get a proper unit....look @ the deals going on in the classifieds.Getting FI parts has never been this cheap..
Both you and arturo are running relatively similar specs except his bottom end has ARP hardware and forged stuff througout (not like it matters).He seems to be happy with his 300+ so my advice is get to a dyno and lets see what its putting down.I am betting your @ 190whp.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif solid info, my guess would be less whp tho.


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (LagunaSecaBlueMK3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LagunaSecaBlueMK3* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif solid info, my guess would be less whp tho.

lower than 190whp on 15psi! That's downright mean.
I've been asking for this thing to go to the dyno for a LONG time. It would really help everyone understand were this 2.0t really sits.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (LagunaSecaBlueMK3)*

this is the best post ever.
it reminds me of talking "cars" with people at car shows.
have any of you ever done that? like start talking about what youve done to your car, how fast it is, how much poiwer, and your just looking at the guy thinking, "my god, i diddnt think you people actually existed in real life! I thought it was only on the internet!!"


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## zornig (May 12, 2001)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (vdubspeed)*

Its funny that you want help but your not providing the info needed to help you.
BTW theres nothing wrong with the cam you have!
SO WHAT IS TOTAL TIMING AT!!!!!!!
my guess is low teens and your 
AF is too lean


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
lower than 190whp on 15psi! That's downright mean.
.

with a 270cam? audi intercooler and mani? i dont think its that mean!! Ive seen 188whp at about the same boost level due to crappy tuning and wrong parts so its very possible


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (LagunaSecaBlueMK3)*

with a bad tune, on 15psi you can expect around 200.
i mean even on a good tune, with 2 headgaskets, and no cam gear to correct the wrong cam timing the 2 gaskets gives you I expect probably around 210-215.


_Modified by speed51133! at 7:02 AM 6-24-2005_


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

>>with a bad tune, on 15psi you can expect around 200.<<
Never underestimate people,or in this case overestimate! I've seen people do worse.


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## traderarturo (Oct 28, 2004)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

Rick, I was going to stay out of this post and better talk to you directly.
My best friend down here runs a TD04H Turbo at 10psi and he does 14.06 consistent on a 1/4mile. And that is a small turbo, I think something similar that a small T3 cause I have compared them both. He is running MSD 6btm and HKS AIC with 1 550 injector.
I have not taken my car to the drag, I will this weekend, I will post some pictures as well as other interesting info. What I have practice against my friend's 2.0t, without taking time, but with the xmas tree, and I take him by 8 cars lenghts, by watching the replay video. I have race other guys on the street, like a modified WRX and they are fast coming out, but the VW takes them on the last strech.
Don't know what is wrong with your setup, I hope you find a conclusion to your problem, Im pretty sure is tuning and maybe the cam? 
Good luck


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## 2dub2euro (May 5, 2004)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (the4ork)*

4ork, I think its time for you to rock the 16v.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (2dub2euro)*

im sure with his tuning experience he will soon hit the limits of the 16v head and MAYBE be able to pull on neons.


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## Rado.16vT (May 25, 2005)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (speed51133!)*


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## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (speed51133!)*

haha man thats cold. 
hell i dynoed a 98 2.0 jetta with a callaway manifold, ATP intercooler and the dreaded T3 Super 60 and even that made 216 whp at 10.5 psi, with an ATP "food poisoning" chip/310 inj setup.
any less than 200 at 14 psi something is wrong.


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## purple-pill (Feb 2, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (lugnuts)*

i think it is time to stick a fork in it


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## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (purple-pill)*

aw now thats not nice haha


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## TURBOPHIL (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (lugnuts)*

Yo 4ork, check this out, http://forum.vwsport.com/viewtopic.php?t=2036
"Submit to the dark side"


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (zornig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zornig* »_
BTW theres nothing wrong with the cam you have!

Master Burlew are you defying the words of [email protected] Autotech who HIGHLY recommended the 260* unit the 270* if you were going with a Turbo.


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## zornig (May 12, 2001)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Wizard-of-OD)*

just my opinion dont take it out 
_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Master Burlew are you defying the words of [email protected] Autotech who HIGHLY recommended the 260* unit the 270* if you were going with a Turbo.










just my opinion dont take it out of context


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## ghettobillgates (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_
the problem is im just not feelin' it. i got my butt handed to me by a stock 350z /w hondata and a 100 wet shot... which is like what, about a grand of engine mods... and im into the 5-6grand range










well he has a 30k sports car and you have a 4k vw. So really who has spent more money? his car has over 200 hp stock and yours has 100. So I wouldnt take that loss too hard.


_Modified by ghettobillgates at 2:15 AM 6-26-2005_


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Master Burlew are you defying the words of [email protected] Autotech who HIGHLY recommended the 260* unit the 270* if you were going with a Turbo.










Not sure if jims gonna defy the words of some guy at autotech, but i sure as hell will! Plain and simple 10 psi on a stock aba should make pretty much 200 whp! Also the 270 cam is the best upgrade i did to my car when i had an aba in my car. The top end was sick. The 260 would be fine too! But lets get real here with the g60 cam and the stock cam crap. are we all looking for mad torque down low. Not sure about you clowns but im not using my car to pull an RV!!!! Go with a big cam a real turbo and some real managment and only then you can tell me you reached the limits of a aba head. Until then stop posting!


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## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (turbodub)*

oh yeah how the hell do you put Hondata on a Nissan 350z???


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Master Burlew


What's with that "Master" comment anyway?...is there a possible way to not take offense to that?.... do you and the fork make it a point to rub people the wrong way and burn bridges or does it just come natrualy? 

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_defying the words of [email protected] Autotech who HIGHLY recommended the 260* unit the 270* if you were going with a Turbo.









What kinda power has autotech ever made anyway? Yeah they have a catalog with all kinds of catchy "Q-ship" phrases that we've all drooled over in the 1st year or 2 of owning a VW and sure they sell some nice parts but they aren't the end all of turbo engine tuning,matter of fact I don't even know they were the begin all...... TechTonics on the other hand I might have to stop,rethink or perhaps tell them more about the overall set-up before I inevitably did my own testing anyway. It always amazes me here that people that have actually done something are looked at as the biggest dumbasses on this forum.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_What's with that "Master" comment anyway?...is there a possible way to not take offense to that?.... do you and the fork make it a point to rub people the wrong way and burn bridges or does it just come natrualy?
 








It was a simple joke,was not supposed to rub James or anyone the wrong way.

_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_It always amazes me here that people that have actually done something are looked at as the biggest dumbasses on this forum.

This statement is getting old fast.Not because you have done something or doing something makes you greater than anyone else.Its a forum,Expect people to have a difference of opinion.
Since Ricky is running an Autotech cam,I am just relating what the owner/supervisor/guy in charge over autotech has to say.I spent a great deal of time discussing with Ralph what cam wouldve been best to use on an 8V and after listening to what he had to say in the 260* vs 270* debate,it was clear why the 260* was a better choice (to me at least).
Now has the 270* worked for others?....Probably has.If it makes you guys feel any better I have both the 260* and 270* Cam.I while do a dyno comparison just for the sake of it after I am done.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

fwiw hondata is expanding into other markets nissan toyota etc. not sure the details but they are.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_ 
This statement is getting old fast.Not because you have done something or doing something makes you greater than anyone else.Its a forum,Expect people to have a difference of opinion. 

_It has *absolutely NOTHING* to do with ANYbody being better than anyone!_ it's as simple as this:
A guy on a budget is having a problem, people say "go buy this this and that AGAIN.
Someone else says "Hey I don't think that's your problem,I had some decent expirience with those parts,I think your problem is something else"

Then people that gave the lame ass advice and DON'T have expirience with the part in question get all butt hurt for who knows why ( I'll go out on a limb here and say it's some type of insecurity issue) and start slinging sayings like "oh they think their better than everyone else blah blah blah".
All I know is I'd appreciate it if I could fix something in my setup without buying parts twice or reusing existing parts,especially if I didn't have a ton of money to spare. ESPECIALLY if the parts I paid for the 2nd time didn't fix the problem.
Take away the whole HCVW name,is it that hard to deny that there's a group of people out there that have been working on turbo VW's over the last 8 years and that they've shared those expiriences with each other? Take any one of the who knows how many members and they've helped or been helped (probably both) by other members. RARELY do you see any of them having sorry ass results. Why do you think that is? I'm sure it's easy to say "Oh see, so that makes them better than everyone else"?!?! No not at all,what it does do is make them good at using an available resource.
Even if you're talking about the other side of that coin and it's just a "different opinion" (I'm certain it's more than that) If you're trying to build a car that does _____ are you going to take advice from someone that's built cars that do _ _ _ _ ? I think I'd take the advice form someone that's done _________________. It doesn't even matter what it is! Like if I wanted my car to handle the best it could,I wouldn't just say "well I had koni's in my old S1 G60 and that never crashed so I defintely need to sell the Bilstiens I have and go buy koni's" I'd go find someone that *successfully* road races or auto-x's and listen to their advice.
Jim ran 300 some hp and went 11's with that cam. As far as the cam being the root of the problem,to many people that alone is enough to rule it out. To the rest go ahead and buy more parts work and spend twice as much as you have to. It takes enough just to try to help people,then to have to re-reseach and dignify every godamn pice of what you say gets old real quick. Does anyone ever wonder why people help other people less and less?
So to the OP, go ahead change 10* of cam duration, according to this it'll fix all your problems.

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_ 








It was a simple joke,was not supposed to rub James or anyone the wrong way.

Don't quit your day job..


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_fwiw hondata is expanding into other markets nissan toyota etc. not sure the details but they are. 

as in they are figuring out ways to modify nissan & toyota ECUs like they did with honda's OR people are putting Honda ECU and sensors into their car?
I'd like to see the hondata theory applied to a Bosch Motronic ECU.


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## 2dub2euro (May 5, 2004)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (lugnuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lugnuts* »_oh yeah how the hell do you put Hondata on a Nissan 350z???









Ask this guy


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

as in neptune and other romulator based stuff is cutting into their honda market too much so they are spreading out and figuring out other brand ecu's . 
They won't touch a vw i wouldn' think, why would you, when theres 9238i49034525325225 ricers with SR20 swaps who want tuning. lol
-----------
This might seem odvious but was the cam timing and trigger angle setup ever actually carefully checked? what about compression is it good in all 4 cyl? Lock your timing to 0 and make sure it is at TDC... Its not the cam you've got some other problemo under the surface. 


_Modified by fast_a2_20v at 5:12 PM 6-26-2005_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_Don't quit your day job..

Dont plan on....hope yours is still working out for you.
To Ricky : Get on the dyno and see whats your putting down then we can go from there.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Wizard-of-OD)*

If I wanted or needed a 9-5 I'd have one.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Wizard-of-OD)*

i'll get on a dyno when i get my 02a in, and i get back into town. i left friday for training, my buddy is tryingi to hook me up with an 02a while im gone so we can basically just throw it in when i get back, i have all the other parts minus a clutch kit.
for those of you who asked about timing i really cant tell you a whole lot w/o being able to get into the car and monitor it under boost. on the timing gauge in the software i usually run around 20deg under boost, coming down from around 30deg at idle. where abouts typically are you 2.0T users generally have thier timing?


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## vw16vcabby (Sep 19, 2001)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

hondata will never make a vw based ecu. simple reason-- vw owners are cheap. i cant see them making an ecu for vw's, and turning a profit. As older vw owners generally wont spend the money, and newer owners are not exactly doing stuff to warrant the ecu...
as for losing their market, no way in hell... granted, neptune is going on more an more cars, but mostly on 4th gens, and maybe a few 5th gens. Neptune is the poor man's way. Anyone who is dropping their money to build a motor is still dropping the money to go hondata.
also, where have you guys seen they were making other ecus? would have thought being a dealer of them, i would have known... Sure you didnt mistake AEM and Hondata????


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (the4ork)*

i wish the dyno shop was open on fathers day, b/c i was taking the transmission out the next day. i was really looking foward to it too.
i think i may just have javad tune it for me on the dyno, he said he would do it for me if i just paid the dyno fee's. i'll get him a 20pack or something at least








we'll see, cant wait to get home already, sheppard AFB sucks!


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (TURBOPHIL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TURBOPHIL* »_Yo 4ork, check this out, http://forum.vwsport.com/viewtopic.php?t=2036
"Submit to the dark side"

hey thanks for the link, some usefull information in there. especially about timing and track/street tuning. i never really thought of doing that. i know a perfect place i can street tune using that method while playing with the timing.
i'd rather do it on a dyno though, and more importantly i'd rather have javad do it. i will be observing him with a close eye b/c i dont what to have to drive up to oakland every time i change something about the motor to have him re-tune it. i will have him explain everything he's doing, even if it costs me a extra hour on the dyno


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## vfarren (Sep 11, 2000)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (Hardcore VW)*

Right on! Basically in a nut shell, the lesson is, don't be an ******* and listen to your elders, haha. Pretty much a sound way to lead your life in general.

_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_
_It has *absolutely NOTHING* to do with ANYbody being better than anyone!_ it's as simple as this:
A guy on a budget is having a problem, people say "go buy this this and that AGAIN.
Someone else says "Hey I don't think that's your problem,I had some decent expirience with those parts,I think your problem is something else"

Then people that gave the lame ass advice and DON'T have expirience with the part in question get all butt hurt for who knows why ( I'll go out on a limb here and say it's some type of insecurity issue) and start slinging sayings like "oh they think their better than everyone else blah blah blah".
All I know is I'd appreciate it if I could fix something in my setup without buying parts twice or reusing existing parts,especially if I didn't have a ton of money to spare. ESPECIALLY if the parts I paid for the 2nd time didn't fix the problem.
Take away the whole HCVW name,is it that hard to deny that there's a group of people out there that have been working on turbo VW's over the last 8 years and that they've shared those expiriences with each other? Take any one of the who knows how many members and they've helped or been helped (probably both) by other members. RARELY do you see any of them having sorry ass results. Why do you think that is? I'm sure it's easy to say "Oh see, so that makes them better than everyone else"?!?! No not at all,what it does do is make them good at using an available resource.
Even if you're talking about the other side of that coin and it's just a "different opinion" (I'm certain it's more than that) If you're trying to build a car that does _____ are you going to take advice from someone that's built cars that do _ _ _ _ ? I think I'd take the advice form someone that's done _________________. It doesn't even matter what it is! Like if I wanted my car to handle the best it could,I wouldn't just say "well I had koni's in my old S1 G60 and that never crashed so I defintely need to sell the Bilstiens I have and go buy koni's" I'd go find someone that *successfully* road races or auto-x's and listen to their advice.
Jim ran 300 some hp and went 11's with that cam. As far as the cam being the root of the problem,to many people that alone is enough to rule it out. To the rest go ahead and buy more parts work and spend twice as much as you have to. It takes enough just to try to help people,then to have to re-reseach and dignify every godamn pice of what you say gets old real quick. Does anyone ever wonder why people help other people less and less?
So to the OP, go ahead change 10* of cam duration, according to this it'll fix all your problems.
Don't quit your day job..


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (vfarren)*

anyways back on topic....
wiz, im not exactly sure on the timing, i can send you the map i've been most recently using that i've made and maybe you can tell me. i tried looking at the map in wordpad under all the timing values, but i cant seem to add/subtract all the different variables together to get an answer. 
if anyone is at least familiar with 034 maybe you can take a look at it. if you'll leave your email i can send it to you. i know im ~30-35 degrees at idle (1300-1400rpm) by redline im usually going to fast to glance down at the laptop to check to see where the timing is, too scary








as for the original question, how much timing are you guys generally seeing when full boost kicks in, and redline?


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## vfarren (Sep 11, 2000)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (the4ork)*

What are your EGTs? Maybe you can stand to add some timing. Leaving a crumb trail.........


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (vfarren)*

Have you verified that your ECU timing and the actual ignition timing are the same .. because you're chasing your tail if you haven't.


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## vfarren (Sep 11, 2000)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (the4ork)*

30 -35 degrees at idle is a lot of timing. Too much timing at full boost as well unless you are running race gas. EGTs will help you determine what direction to go in if you don't have access to a dyno. Most likely you need less timing.


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## automagp68 (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: dissapointed with my 2.0T ! (vfarren)*

hey guys,
Obviously im an ammature but i was hopeing somone could help me out.
I got an eip stge 2 8v turbo kit on my mk4.
I had been experiecning what i thought was a clutch slip problem. In like 4th and 5th gear at one point of watched my boost guage and wailed on it up the hill and the car pulled hard to like 10 or 11 psi and when i wne t over that immediateley my wastegate opened, ( set to 14psi) my rpm went a little high not to bad , so i immediateley thought clutch. Its an eip stage 2 9 puck street series. It only has 1000 mile on it so i was really finding it hard to beleave that it was slipping. the next day me CEL light came on so i got out my laptop and pulled vagcom up and i notice IAT signal high. I herd someone say once that if that is to high the computer will pull timing and i will have a serious power loss for the second it does pull timing. Does this sound like a clutch problem or a timing issue. The clutch feels real sticky and pulls hard as hell in 1,2,3 havnt really gotten on it in 4th and 5th again since that day, Is there a way i can figure this out useing my vag or VWtool on my comp, Any help much appreciated, before i start putting a new clutch in my car. Thanks


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## BoostFactory (May 27, 2005)

Not to take sides on this whole 260 vs 270 degree camshaft, but remember when the first vtec motors started being turbocharged and people kept saying that they wouldnt make as much power as an LS because of the valve overlap? Well, that died quickly didnt it? 
hth
Paul


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (BoostFactory)*

yeah i think i'll just go back to the stock cam when i hit the dyno, and maybe at a later date try the 270 again just to see if i can squeeze any more power out with it.
also, not running an egt currently, but it is on my list of things to get when i get home


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (BoostFactory)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BoostFactory* »_Not to take sides on this whole 260 vs 270 degree camshaft, but remember when the first vtec motors started being turbocharged and people kept saying that they wouldnt make as much power as an LS because of the valve overlap? Well, that died quickly didnt it? 
hth
Paul

These are a much more sophisticated design than the VW 8V head, so I don't know if we're comparing the same thing.
You are right though, some of the FI Integras have picked up 50 HP at high boost by messing with cam overlap - there seems to be some sort of "scavenging" effect of the exhaust gasses going on, even at high boost.

Here's a check list of things to check:
1. Total timing - double check your EGTs
2. Review your AFR - it looks a little lean at that high a boost
3. Is 20 psi beyond the efficiency range of your turbo - check the IAT, is it running really hot - is the compressor just pumping hot air?
4. Check the efficiency of your intercooler - check the air temps before and after the intercooler to see if it's cooling enough. You could try repositining the intercooler to max sure it gets the maximum flow of cool air, or try putting heat shields over the hottest parts of the engine, eg. the exhaust side of the turbo.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (ijcameron)*

i have a stainless heatshield that covers the manifold, wastegate, and hotside of the turbo from the intake manifold ect. also the dp has been wrapped.
my IAT doesnt move too much. problem with that is im using the stock 0bd1 sensor in the manifold. so i belive its reading more heatsoak than anything. it stays around 40deg-45deg tops. im pretty sure 20psi is within my turbo's efficiency range, it doesnt seem to heat my IC up, only very little


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## temporalwar (Nov 26, 2003)

*Re: (the4ork)*

Whats your transmission setup?
Do you have a LSD?, your 02A swap work out well?
your clutch have enough grip?


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (temporalwar)*

i was running a 9a, prepping to do an 02m swap
as for clutch slippage, it was at first, but once the clutch wore in (was brand new) i had no problems with it. TT 4puck solid, 16v pp


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