# APR Stage 2 HP gains



## Gracefulfury (Sep 5, 2007)

Hey, gtis goin in the shop in a week to get stage 1 and 2 along with an APR Sport TBE system. Just curious as to the stage 2 output. I know the stage one gives roughly 252 and stage 3 is up really high but where does stage 2 stand?


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## _leo_ (May 21, 2005)

stage 2 chip or stage 2 turbo which i guess you can say id a ko4 which is 300 horse and 323 ft/lbs. stage 2 chip takes into consideration the added intake flow and exhaust flow. there is also a 2.5 which is a stage 2 with a fuel pump program


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (Gracefulfury)*

APR claims another 18 or so hp in the midrange. typically dyno around 224whp peak with TBE exhaust on a dynojet depending on the intake.


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## mdeleo3 (Jan 29, 2001)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (02GTI-VR6-same1)*

So what would the total approx hp be? I'm guessing stage 2 is chip, exhaust, intake? Prob not turbo though...


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## Gracefulfury (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (mdeleo3)*

well stage 2 requires a new dp but i got the full exhaust, and i dont want to be running that system with the stock intake so im getting the carbino CAI. Im doing before and after (stock and chipped) dynos, ill have them posted.


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## Nvr2Fst (Jul 17, 2006)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (Gracefulfury)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gracefulfury* »_well stage 2 requires a new dp but i got the full exhaust, and i dont want to be running that system with the stock intake so im getting the carbino CAI. Im doing before and after (stock and chipped) dynos, ill have them posted.

curious to see your gains after... I know all dynos and conditions will show different numbers, but I am running basically the same set up, stage 2 exhaust specific software, full sport TBE from APR and a EVOM intake... have yet to dyno. plan on it in the spring, but I plan on doing alot of things and never get around to it..







I will be getting the 100 oct flash next week. drag radials and the strip in the spring... cant wait to see what she will run!


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## Gracefulfury (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (Nvr2Fst)*

yeah, ill have them posted up in this thread, but yeah im going to the strip once drag season opens. What 100 octane flash are you using?


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## Nvr2Fst (Jul 17, 2006)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (Gracefulfury)*

APR's new one that they just released


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## electricme (Aug 8, 2005)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (Gracefulfury)*

You should do your stock dyno then get your stage 2 dyno done a few days later give the ECU time to adapt and get up to full power... seemed like I didn't have the most power until two days later.


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## mdeleo3 (Jan 29, 2001)

BTW, is stage 2 simply a chip, exhaust, intake? Wouldn't that be around the 265HP mark?


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## Jetty! (May 10, 2006)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (Gracefulfury)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gracefulfury* »_well stage 2 requires a new dp but i got the full exhaust, and i dont want to be running that system with the stock intake so im getting the carbino CAI. Im doing before and after (stock and chipped) dynos, ill have them posted.

I would get something other than carbonio.


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (02GTI-VR6-same1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *02GTI-VR6-same1* »_APR claims another 18 or so hp in the midrange. typically dyno around 224whp peak with TBE exhaust on a dynojet depending on the intake.

I dont want to start a war between chip cie. I saw many stage 2 around 224whp. IMO this is low however.
Someone posted is number with Unitronic stage 1+(stock DP and no CAI) and it was 224 whp. It could be because of the temp, diff dyno, diff gear pull...



_Modified by jeff2.0t at 2:20 PM 2-12-2008_


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## mdeleo3 (Jan 29, 2001)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (Jetty!)*

Is Carbonio a bad brand? I saw them on the APR site so I figured they were 'good'

_Quote, originally posted by *Jetty!* »_
I would get something other than carbonio.


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## Gracefulfury (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (mdeleo3)*

idk, ive had it for 1k miles and im lovin it, it breathes easy and makes the nice CAI sound when you tear civics a new one.


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## AlexsVR6 (Jul 24, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (mdeleo3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mdeleo3* »_Is Carbonio a bad brand? I saw them on the APR site so I figured they were 'good'


the carbonio is the intake that APR makes it some people like it because it keeps the engine cover and because it doesnt make any noise. but some like the neuspeed etc. because it does make sound and it does remove the engine cover.
Also if your looking at Chip look at a Unitronic dyno sheet because they pull all the way until redline unlike APR that starts to taper off before it.


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## Speeddemon69 (Oct 22, 2007)

ok back on topic here, is there a big difference going from stage 1 to stage 2? If not i'd rather wait and us the money on susupension and other nicknacks. 
let me put it in a simple way, if i where to race a stage 2 mkv with the same mods as me(minus downpipe of course), how many cars will he pull on me?


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## T13R (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: (Speeddemon69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Speeddemon69* »_ok back on topic here, is there a big difference going from stage 1 to stage 2? If not i'd rather wait and us the money on susupension and other nicknacks. 
let me put it in a simple way, if i where to race a stage 2 mkv with the same mods as me(minus downpipe of course), how many cars will he pull on me?

I've heard some people say that the difference from Stage 1 to Stage 2 almost feels the same as going from stock to Stage 1. I'm still waiting for my downpipe to arrive to switch over to Stage 2 and find out. 
Not sure how many cars a Stage 2 will pull on you, but the difference in the 1/4 mile is about .4 seconds. Best Stage 2 I've seen is 13.6, and I'm pretty sure I saw some Stage 1's doing it in 14 seconds flat.


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## Speeddemon69 (Oct 22, 2007)

*Re: (T13R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T13R* »_
I've heard some people say that the difference from Stage 1 to Stage 2 almost feels the same as going from stock to Stage 1. I'm still waiting for my downpipe to arrive to switch over to Stage 2 and find out. 
Not sure how many cars a Stage 2 will pull on you, but the difference in the 1/4 mile is about .4 seconds. Best Stage 2 I've seen is 13.6, and I'm pretty sure I saw some Stage 1's doing it in 14 seconds flat.

hmmm....feels the same as going from stock to stage 1. i'd like to really believe that.


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## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (Speeddemon69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Speeddemon69* »_
hmmm....feels the same as going from stock to stage 1. i'd like to really believe that.

Believe it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Then do the fuel pump, its the same thing all over again


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## mdeleo3 (Jan 29, 2001)

So for the ultimate APR stage 2+, you'll want the APR chip, catback exhaust setup, intake, and finally the apr fuel pump?


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## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (mdeleo3)*

That all depends on how far you want to go. If your going to do anything more down the road the fuel pump is a must. The biggest difference with the pump in the Stage 2 setup is the insane bottom end. As a comparison my friends GTI with Cont. 225/40R18 tires did not chirp 2nd gear with stage 2 while my Cont. 235/40R18 spun like crazy with Stage 2 and the pump.

_Quote, originally posted by *mdeleo3* »_So for the ultimate APR stage 2+, you'll want the APR chip, *catback exhaust setup*, intake, and finally the apr fuel pump?

Down pipe, not cat back


_Modified by majid at 11:46 AM 2-18-2008_


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## HHBizzle (Apr 17, 2006)

just redo your entire exhaust


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## teriba (Dec 4, 1999)

*Re: (mdeleo3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mdeleo3* »_So for the ultimate APR stage 2+, you'll want the APR chip, catback exhaust setup, intake, and finally the apr fuel pump?

All you need is chip, downpipe and fuel pump. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif The catback is for sound and the intake is for looks/sound.


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## Gracefulfury (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: (teriba)*


_Quote, originally posted by *teriba* »_
All you need is chip, downpipe and fuel pump. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif The catback is for sound and the intake is for looks/sound.

nope, you dont need the fuel pump, thats for stage 3. but if you do get it you will see improvement although it isnt necessary


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (Gracefulfury)*

gracefulfury....they do have a fuel pump file for stage2 so you can get it and see power increases


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## Gracefulfury (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_gracefulfury....they do have a fuel pump file for stage2 so you can get it and see power increases

yeah i know, im just saying its not necessary, i got into an arguement with some kid yesterday when he told me "my fuel pump was going to explode" if i didnt get the new one with stage 2+
but as far as extra hp goes, apr fuel pump ftw, its a bit expensive but worth it


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## ShutItDown (Jun 14, 2007)

*Re: (Gracefulfury)*

the ULTIMATE Stage 2+ is 
1. Chip
2. Intake
3. Turbo-Back Exhaust
4. Aftermarket Intercooler
5. High Pressure Fuel Pump
this the the best because APR has a specific tune to take advantage of the more fuel/air from the intercooelr and fuel pump. thats the best you can get on stage 2.


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## wale (Jun 24, 2007)

*Re: (ShutItDown)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ShutItDown* »_the ULTIMATE Stage 2+ is 
1. Chip
2. Intake
3. Turbo-Back Exhaust
4. Aftermarket Intercooler
5. High Pressure Fuel Pump
this the the best because APR has a specific tune to take advantage of the more fuel/air from the intercooelr and fuel pump. thats the best you can get on stage 2.

how much ware do these parts do to the stock turbo and internals?


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_
I dont want to start a war between chip cie. I saw many stage 2 around 224whp. IMO this is low however.
Someone posted is number with Unitronic stage 1+(stock DP and no CAI) and it was 224 whp. It could be because of the temp, diff dyno, diff gear pull...
_Modified by jeff2.0t at 2:20 PM 2-12-2008_

not low for an APR stage 2 without an intake. most stage 2 guys with intakes (regardless of brands) are in the 230whp range but without the intake they usually arent running in the 230's. Even a stage 1 running 220ish (and there are many) still wont have the 3000-5000rpm kick a stage 2 car will have. DP's biggest gains are in the midrange not the peak numbers everybody brags about.


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## VitViper (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (02GTI-VR6-same1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *02GTI-VR6-same1* »_
not low for an APR stage 2 without an intake. most stage 2 guys with intakes (regardless of brands) are in the 230whp range but without the intake they usually arent running in the 230's. Even a stage 1 running 220ish (and there are many) still wont have the 3000-5000rpm kick a stage 2 car will have. DP's biggest gains are in the midrange not the peak numbers everybody brags about.

That's about right.


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## T13R (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (02GTI-VR6-same1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *02GTI-VR6-same1* »_
not low for an APR stage 2 without an intake. most stage 2 guys with intakes (regardless of brands) are in the 230whp range but without the intake they usually arent running in the 230's. Even a stage 1 running 220ish (and there are many) still wont have the 3000-5000rpm kick a stage 2 car will have. DP's biggest gains are in the midrange not the peak numbers everybody brags about.

That's an interesting point about the DP not making much difference in peak numbers. I think jeff2.0t was referring to me with his post. I finally had my APR DP installed recently. Just waiting to get reflashed to Stage 2, let it adapt, and dyno again. Will be interesting to see the difference between Stage 1+ and Stage 2.


_Modified by T13R at 8:29 PM 3-8-2008_


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## ShutItDown (Jun 14, 2007)

*Re: (wale)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wale* »_
how much ware do these parts do to the stock turbo and internals?

depends how hard you run the car. 

i might also add with those mods i mentioned about you could add a water/meth kit and use APRs 100 oct program and gain another 20whp.


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (T13R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T13R* »_
That's an interesting point about the DP not making much difference in peak numbers. I think jeff2.0t was referring to me with his post. I finally had my APR DP installed recently. Just waiting to get reflashed to Stage 2, let it adapt, and dyno again. Will be interesting to see the difference between Stage 1+ and Stage 2.

_Modified by T13R at 8:29 PM 3-8-2008_

Yes I was referring to your number. 
I just bought my ATP DP also... Keep us inform of your number... I cant figure out how you could only make 6 HP with a DP and stage 2...


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## _leo_ (May 21, 2005)

right away i went from stock to stage 2 and let me tell you its a huge difference people have dynoed APRs stage to at 250ish whp. and the general power loss to the wheels on the gti/gli is abotu 11% so do the math which is about 280 horse to the crank and well over 300 ft.lbs. there is so much power that its a struggle to keep the front wheels from slipping and the ESP always kicks in. acceleration is faster then my dads car with a big 4.4 V8 which pushes out around the same power as a might 2.0T with stage2


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## xxxfast (Jul 26, 2007)

*Re: (_leo_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_leo_* »_right away i went from stock to stage 2 and let me tell you its a huge difference people have dynoed APRs stage to at 250ish whp. and the general power loss to the wheels on the gti/gli is abotu 11% so do the math which is about 280 horse to the crank and well over 300 ft.lbs. there is so much power that its a struggle to keep the front wheels from slipping and the ESP always kicks in. acceleration is faster then my dads car with a big 4.4 V8 which pushes out around the same power as a might 2.0T with stage2

maybe with a fp and meth kit http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## _leo_ (May 21, 2005)

no with a forge dv apr downpipe, neuspeed p flo and apr stage 2 software


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## Nvr2Fst (Jul 17, 2006)

*Re: (_leo_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_leo_* »_ people have dynoed APRs stage to at 250ish whp. and the general power loss to the wheels on the gti/gli is abotu 11% so do the math which is about 280 horse to the crank and well over 300 ft.lbs. 

Have you seen dyno sheets to confirm this?


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## _leo_ (May 21, 2005)

lol yeah theres a video on youtube and everything


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (Nvr2Fst)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nvr2Fst* »_
Have you seen dyno sheets to confirm this?

Actually I have seen 250whp with a APR chip but they had a HPFP tune.


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## SoNgMaN (Feb 25, 2004)

i just put down 260whp today...255 corrected. APR stage 2, neuspeed intake, eurosport DP. 93 program


_Modified by SoNgMaN at 2:52 AM 5-5-2008_


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## ShutItDown (Jun 14, 2007)

*Re: (SoNgMaN)*

pics or it didnt happen.


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## aeproberts21 (Apr 10, 2007)

*Re: (ShutItDown)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ShutItDown* »_pics or it didn't happen.

x2. I will believe it if i see it.


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## GLI20V (Mar 28, 2005)

*Re: (aeproberts21)*

Well if my stock dyno was 201hp on a mustang I dont see why 240 ish isnt possible for a stage 2....My last GTI 06 that I had was putting down almost 260 w/ stage 2 with Water Meth !


_Modified by GLI20V at 11:57 AM 5-5-2008_


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: (GLI20V)*

this thread still going...there is a difference between "typical" and the occasional high dyno number....it seems that while the parts arent changing recently the dyno numbers seem to be getting higher. Part of that is probably due to more 07' up cars being dyno'd and they are just stronger than 06's cars...I still say with intake, DP and stage 2 programming 230-239whp is still the norm. 250-260whp is upgraded fuel pump range "typically".


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## asylum (Jan 11, 2000)

*Re: (SoNgMaN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoNgMaN* »_i just put down 260whp today...255 corrected. APR stage 2, neuspeed intake, eurosport DP. 93 program

_Modified by SoNgMaN at 2:52 AM 5-5-2008_

I can confirm this as this was on my dyno this past weekend


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## NEW2B (Dec 1, 2006)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (Gracefulfury)*

here are my crappy #'s
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3769852


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## Kong99 (Jul 3, 2008)

*Re: APR Stage 2 HP gains (NEW2B)*

I was at stock Stage 1 with APR. BIG difference going from Stock to Stage 1, night and day for me.
I then installed the VF Engineering CAI and felt a noticable increase, in particular torque.
I just went to Stage 2 with the APR DP and APR ECU. I have not noticed as much of an difference BUT I 'think' I know why. Stage 1 had quite a 'kick' whereas the Stage 2 seems to a smoother delivery of power and torque.


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## megsgti (Aug 30, 2010)

*Stage 2*

I just added the APR stage 1 upgrade to my 2010 GTI.,All I can say is wow.

This is just my thought and the way I'm going, before I go stage 2, I want the brakes and shock upgraded.

Ya more power is great but to me stopping is more important. 

Megan


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## akash_sky1 (May 30, 2010)

Gracefulfury said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *teriba* »_
> All you need is chip, downpipe and fuel pump. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif The catback is for sound and the intake is for looks/sound.
> 
> nope, you dont need the fuel pump, thats for stage 3. but if you do get it you will see improvement although it isnt necessary


Intake for sound only? Thats Nonsense. The stock airbox is very restrictive, any half decent aftermarket will VASTLY improve your throttle response and give you a good top end gain, my neuspeed did before I even got stage 2 GIAC software.


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_
> I dont want to start a war between chip cie. I saw many stage 2 around 224whp. IMO this is low however.
> Someone posted is number with Unitronic stage 1+(stock DP and no CAI) and it was 224 whp. It could be because of the temp, diff dyno, diff gear pull...
> _Modified by jeff2.0t at 2:20 PM 2-12-2008_
> ...


not that true a friend of mine has a stage 1 APR A3 with a carbonio intake and neauspeed pulley and he was pushing 221 to the wheels


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## Randum311 (Feb 15, 2010)

akash_sky1 said:


> Intake for sound only? Thats Nonsense. The stock airbox is very restrictive, any half decent aftermarket will VASTLY improve your throttle response and give you a good top end gain, my neuspeed did before I even got stage 2 GIAC software.


The intake also helps the throttle response while in 'D' mode (DSG users). Definitely helps smooth this out.


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## gti_4_eva (Oct 5, 2010)

*APR Stage 2 Hp gains*

here`s the thing guys..in order to do things properly you are gonna have to change a couple of things and obviously spend some money but it would be worth it .
first thing first guys..if it`s a turbo you gotta allow it to breath 
1.turbo compressor inlet hose (critically important) - this hose has much larger diameter than the factory one and has wire wrapping around to ensure that all of that air will go into the turbo which is very very important. It`s also made out of silicone to ensure smoother and faster air flow.
2.turbo throttle body hose - the purpose of this hose is to improve throttle response and decrease the pressure drop. And once again this hose also has a larger diameter which means more airflow. (this one is optional but highly highly recomended..(u wont regret it if u get it)
3. intercooler pipes - you have to change it. the stock intercooler is good enough to handle the job it`s just that the hoses are to small. bigger intercooler hoses means better cooling
4.downpipe - it is necessary if you want to go for a stage 2 chip (full exhaust is recomended but if you want to save some money the downpipe itself would do it)
5.intake - the intake is really optional, however if you do get it it will definitely make a difference in power gain and response + it would sound nicer.
This is up to you guys, but me personally i would go with apr because they do it safely, meaning that everything is tested out and precise so u wont blow your engine. Other chips might give u more horses but they might mess up your car really bad. Once again it`s up to u guys. I got this info from an apr dealer


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## VAGjunkey (Sep 13, 2009)

This is a good thread. Im going stg 2 really soon im stuck between apr and unitronic (revo is also a consideration). I want the power but dont want to murder my stock internals. I also want programming that wont harm my car. Which is why im considering apr (I dont know how safe unitronic is). Im also in a 91 oct state so that is a factor. I want some sort of smooth driveability still while SAFELY maxing out my KO3.


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## gti_4_eva (Oct 5, 2010)

*APR Stage 2 Hp gains*

yea i mean it`s up to you but my recommendation is to go with apr original parts which are OEM approved and i mean it speaks really good for itself the fact that is the official sponsor company for vw racing


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