# GTI FSI Head on ABA Block



## 2DR16VT (Mar 16, 2006)

Hi Guys..I'm planning on converting my current 16v turbo.
I want to use the FSI head that comes of the mk5 gti. I managed to get a complete head at quite a bargain.
What do i need to do to put this head onto a ABA block ?
So far i know there are a few oil holes that need to be closed.
I'm not sure about the injectors, i was planning on closing the injectors hole to the combustion chambers and running normal injectors on the intake manifold.
How do these cams work on this head ? Do they some sort of VVT ?
How will i control the VVT ? the management system i'm using does have a switching function that can turn any output switch on or off.
this is the link to the managment http://www.dicktator.co.za its the 60-2 version.
Please chime in guys....i'd like as much input as possible.


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## 75injectedSB (Feb 6, 2006)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (2DR16VT)*

Not sure it will work out for you. Take an ABA head gasket and lay it on the FSI head. Post pics when you do this so we can all see. The cams and VVT are another story.


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## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (75injectedSB)*

ive never read about anybody atempting this swap before... im gonna say your pretty much on your own... but i think comparing head gaskets is definitely the place to start


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## TheDoC808 (Dec 1, 2007)

wow man. i was thinking about doin something like this in the future to.
but i dont thnik the fsi head will fit on a 1.8t block. (correct me if im wrong)
if it does lmk so i can get started on my next project lol.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (2DR16VT)*

I have only mocked up the engine,not tested it or anything but I can only imagine that the end result will be the same as putting an AEB or other 20V head onto an ABA/pre 037 block.

_Quote, originally posted by *2DR16VT* »_
What do i need to do to put this head onto a ABA block ?
So far i know there are a few oil holes that need to be closed.
I'm not sure about the injectors, i was planning on closing the injectors hole to the combustion chambers and running normal injectors on the intake manifold.

The injectors holes need to be pluged but those are the least of your worries.
Unlike the ABA or AEB head the BPY/BMP FSI heads have a "chain" of coolant channels at the rear of the head.My recommendation is to dismantle the head completely and do the following:
* Overlay ABA head gasket on the BPY cylinder head cast and mark out the areas with a green or red sharpie marker (machinist use these as well as kids in school







)
* Weld the 3 centre oil returns at the rear of the head and reduce the size of the #1 and 5 oil return.More than likely these will need closing up a little as they needed modification on the AEB head.
* Weld up the chain of coolant ports @ the rear
* modify the front primary oil return
Since you are doing all this welding to the head then I would recommend getting the FSI injector holes welded shut them machined rather than plugged.

_Quote, originally posted by *2DR16VT* »_
How do these cams work on this head ? Do they some sort of VVT ?
How will i control the VVT

Control the VVT solenoid like you would with any GPO from your SEM.The FSI head is going to be the next best head to use as it can safely go to 8000 rpm's with no issues.
Let me know if you need an intake flange for either ITB's or a custom manifold http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 75injectedSB (Feb 6, 2006)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (Wizard-of-OD)*

So with all the work that needs to be done, what are the flow numbers for the head? Is it really worth all that work? Doesn't seem that bad, but how much better is the head than a 20v? Get it done man, glad to see people thinking out side the box a little and trying things...


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (75injectedSB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *75injectedSB* »_So with all the work that needs to be done, what are the flow numbers for the head? Is it really worth all that work? Doesn't seem that bad, but how much better is the head than a 20v? Get it done man, glad to see people thinking out side the box a little and trying things...









I would like to know as well, you have any flow numbers to compare 20v vs FSI 16v Issam?
I am looking into head options for later on down the road I was thinking more mk2 16v/MK4 2.0, but for now a boosted 8 valve is gonna make me happy.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (Jay-Bee)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jay-Bee* »_
I would like to know as well, you have any flow numbers to compare 20v vs FSI 16v Issam?

I do not have any flow numbers but they will come eventually in time.I have a solid lifter 20V head that I will flow against a stock FSI head for the forum in the new year.One of the BIGGEST advantages of the FSI cylinder head is the VVT gears.Once you have complete control over the VVT solenoids with a suitable standalone then the sky is the limit.I would not even both with the 9A/PL 16V heads as this is a much better built cylinder head.
Be careful though as there are many versions of the head.


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## thetwodubheads (Dec 6, 2004)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (Wizard-of-OD)*

I would love to see someone harness the "FSI" direct injection system and program a standalone system to run it. Imagine programming your own lean-burn cruise map into your tune. 400+hp and 40mpg highway


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (2DR16VT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thetwodubheads* »_I would love to see someone harness the "FSI" direct injection system and program a standalone system to run it. Imagine programming your own lean-burn cruise map into your tune. 400+hp and 40mpg highway










Contrary to popular belief, FSI injection in a big turbo application is not anymore efficient than running say normal 870cc high impedance injectors with an SEM system.


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Contrary to popular belief, FSI injection in a big turbo application is not anymore efficient than running say normal 870cc high impedance injectors with an SEM system.

Why


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (PhReE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhReE* »_Why

The "window" to spray fuel into the combustion chamber is limited.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Contrary to popular belief, FSI injection in a big turbo application is not anymore efficient than running say normal 870cc high impedance injectors with an SEM system.

Bingo, of course you could argue the atomization characteristics.
The real benefit of DI is the fuel consumption on low load stratified combustion process.


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## 2DR16VT (Mar 16, 2006)

*Re: (TheDoC808)*

Not sure about the 1.8t block but i know of 2 guys that have put the FSI head on an aba block.


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## 2DR16VT (Mar 16, 2006)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (Wizard-of-OD)*

Hey sounds like you've got your head pretty clear on what needs to be done and your pretty far ahead with your swap.
Thanks for telling me what needs to be done to this head.
oh yeah...what is an SEM and GPO ?
Going to get the head some time this week.Its of a friends car that rolled.
regarding the intake and exhaust manifolds....how different is it from 9a 16v head ? would i be able to just change the flanges or would i have to make new manifolds ?


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## 2DR16VT (Mar 16, 2006)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (Wizard-of-OD)*

The head i have is an AVX head thats of the mk5 GTI. Not sure if its of a BWA block .....?
This is the link to the stand alone efi i have wwww.dicktator.com. Its got control options for VVT.


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## thetwodubheads (Dec 6, 2004)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Contrary to popular belief, FSI injection in a big turbo application is not anymore efficient than running say normal 870cc high impedance injectors with an SEM system.

For power I understand, I was more or less talking about the people who will daily drive a project of sorts and not be boosting all of the time.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (75injectedSB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *75injectedSB* »_Take an ABA head gasket and lay it on the FSI head.

I had done this here, kind of, it is an ABF/ABA gasket over the FSI gasket.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4114970
I know there are different castings for the FSI head (actual port shape), but the oil and coolant passeges should be the same though. Kind of how VAG did the large port vs. small port 20v deal.

I take that back, another casting difference is how the exhaust flange bolts up.
This is what I have, totally different from the heads we got here in the states.










_Modified by billyVR6 at 1:33 PM 12-31-2008_


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## NeonGreenbangbang (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (billyVR6)*

Look at the size of those exhaust ports!!!! Holy flow!


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (NeonGreenbangbang)*

You must be looking at the carbon build up.
They aren't that big, and actually kind of small.


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## NeonGreenbangbang (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (billyVR6)*

Maybe that's it because I feel back in my chair when I saw it. I had initially thought big block chevy oval ports when I saw them.....


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (NeonGreenbangbang)*

The exhaust ports on that head are 38mm.
The carbon that you thought was the port is 44.5mm.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2DR16VT* »_
Thanks for telling me what needs to be done to this head.
oh yeah...what is an SEM and GPO ?

SEM = Standalone engine management - 034EFI / MS&S / VEMS / DTA/etc etc 
GPO = general purpose output - All SEM's should have 2 to about 8

_Quote, originally posted by *2DR16VT* »_
regarding the intake and exhaust manifolds....how different is it from 9a 16v head ? would i be able to just change the flanges or would i have to make new manifolds ?

You will most certainly need to change/develop manifolds.Nothing from a 9A/PL will work on a BPY FSI head.

_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
I take that back, another casting difference is how the exhaust flange bolts up.
This is what I have, totally different from the heads we got here in the states.

You have the better head....trsut me








Much easier to work with...want to swap for an extra BPY FSI head I have?


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_You have the better head....trsut me








Much easier to work with...

Sure, and I've seen some flow data come my way that says it's up on CFM too (not by a ton, but still). It is too early to tell if that will hold true, we'll just need to see more BPY bench results.

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_...want to swap for an extra BPY FSI head I have?

That's the funniest thing I've heard/read so far this year.
It took to long for me to acquire this stuff, not looking to take a step backwards. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
That's the funniest thing I've heard/read so far this year.
It took to long for me to acquire this stuff, not looking to take a step backwards. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 









I managed to get one but it has the FSI ports.I wanted it for the exhaust flange and the less complicated VVT system in the rear.Your head does not have the FSI ports correct?


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (Wizard-of-OD)*

What do you consider FSI ports?


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## 84_GLI_coupe (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (billyVR6)*

Must be talking about the ports in the combustion chamber for the FSI injectors, that usually get welded up for big power fun times.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (84_GLI_coupe)*

Yes, but both N/A FSI and Turbo FSI both use the same method of injection, but with slightly different port shape and flow (so we are starting to gather).
I have the Naturally Aspirated head (AXW), if that is what the Wiz is asking.


_Modified by billyVR6 at 3:03 PM 1-5-2009_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_What do you consider FSI ports?

For the injectors
There was one version that came blank (casted shut) similar to the inline-5 rabbit motor.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: GTI FSI Head on ABA Block (Wizard-of-OD)*

Ahh O.K., I have the AXW casting with the FSI ports. I did know about the inline-5, but wasn't aware there was a non-FSI port head available for 4 cylinders as well. Either way, everything I don't want is getting welded; first the injector ports, then later the actual intake ports.
These are the best images I have, didn;t take the time to do it up right.
Chamber.









Intake.









Exhaust.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Found it...the google search makes vortex archive simple.
p.s. got the weight of the part you asked me,found it on the reminder sheet from december.








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4085461

_Quote »_


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## 2DR16VT (Mar 16, 2006)

anyone know what duration the FSI turbo cams are ?


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Here is the key part to that topic...

_Quote, originally posted by *EXPENSIVE!!!* »_....there are only 5 in the world

I will just have mine welded up the next time I pull the head.
Either way, that's a good find for damn sure! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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