# Best bang-for-the-buck Coilovers



## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

Hey guys, just wanted to do a lil research n see if anyone has had experience with either of these...

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-TT_MKI-Quattro-225HP/Suspension/Coil_Overs/ES2142924/

and 

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-TT_MKI-Quattro-225HP/Suspension/Coil_Overs/ES240604/

I'm not ready to buy just yet(still need more research on camber corrections and mo' money), but wanted to see if I could get some feedback.

My end goal here is to do a decent suspension setup that will allow for wheel changes and making sure I also have funds left over for camber and bushings. 

I made the mistake of a cup-kit on my vr6 and have been too low ever since(yea, yea... i know). Height adjust ability is a must here.

I also really like how these come with new links


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## Mantvis (Jan 1, 2010)

Check out Raceland or Rokkor

thats what im getting, since i use my car only for daily.. i dont expect any big handling changes.. just want moaaar low


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## PLAYED TT (Oct 17, 2010)

ST by kw or V-MAXX are good. Also Gruvenparts control arms:thumbup:


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

Both Raceland and Rokkor make kits only for 2wd...

Quattro please


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## Mantvis (Jan 1, 2010)

whoooops haha:laugh:


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

V-Maxx looks to be same price as FK Streetline kit but without the links...

Cant find ST...


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## PLAYED TT (Oct 17, 2010)

VroomTT said:


> V-Maxx looks to be same price as FK Streetline kit but without the links...
> 
> Cant find ST...


Autotech carries them


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## 1.8 skeet skeet (Aug 11, 2004)

I have ST Coils and love them:thumbup:


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## Vdub 2.0 (Jan 8, 2008)

i was looking at K-sport they have adjustable height and dampening, along with a camber plate up to anyone have experience with these


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## eodtech (Nov 1, 2009)

Vdub 2.0 said:


> i was looking at K-sport they have adjustable height and dampening, along with a camber plate up to anyone have experience with these


I had them on my mk5. They rode pretty well. Just depended on where you had them set at dampening wise. They can be pretty stiff when they are all the way over.


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## NaudifreakTT (Jan 22, 2010)

have been looking at similar set ups for a while, 

what do you guys think is better vmaxx or fk street lines? also what else will be needed with either of these systems on a quattro? i have heard mixed things as far as correction goes


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

Again, these other kits are similarly priced and dont include the links...

Does anyone have experience with the FK's?

I would also like to know what else would be needed for a quattro set-up. 

Bushings, camber, etc... 

Not what you would like to do, but the things you need to at least do


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## taifighter (Dec 21, 2007)

I run VMaxx

The best thing to do is to do it right the first time. Don't waste your time with cheapass KMAC kit bull$hit bushings. Get adj control arms. Upper and lower cuz you'll need em to correctly dial your setup in to spec. I went with Gruven and didn't look back once I saw the quality and adjustability. Install is a snap and worth the cost in tire savings!


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

taifighter said:


> The best thing to do is to do it right the first time. Don't waste your time with cheapass KMAC kit bull$hit bushings. Get adj control arms. Upper and lower cuz you'll need em to correctly dial your setup in to spec.


Preach on broseph. Yeah, the whole offset bushing as a form of adjustment is rubbish. :thumbdown: Gruven is local to me in Atlanta, so that's what I'll go with when the time comes.


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## taifighter (Dec 21, 2007)

20v master said:


> Preach on broseph. Yeah, the whole offset bushing as a form of adjustment is rubbish. :thumbdown: Gruven is local to me in Atlanta, so that's what I'll go with when the time comes.


Fun story time:

I had my exhaust patched up at a local muffler shop, had to close up a couple pinholes. While on the lift, one of the guys came in and asked where I got my control arms because they would be perfect for his circle track car he was building. We chatted a bit and I found out that parts for cars like that are WAY more expensive than parts for our cars. He was looking at around $1500 for aftermarket arms, but when he learned he could get upper and lowers for a third of that price he was all about it. He said he'd make em work cuz the build quality looked outstanding, they are adjustable while still connected, and they are re-greasable.

I made Gruvenparts some $ that day.


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

So is the camber adjustment issue only in the rear??? The front will be fine? 

Also, are both upper and lower absolutely needed? I heard just lower will do.

I wont be slamming it anyway. Prob only an inch all around.

And what about strut bushings and misc stuff???


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I'd have to challenge you on the Kmac bushings being crap. I've had a full set of Kmac bushings in my car since way back when, think I only paid $200-250 for them or so- maybe 4 years ago and three sets of coilovers ago. They have NEVER moved out of the set -2.4' of rear camber since day one. I have only adjusted the stock toe adjustments back there during alignments.

Honestly I'd say that all coilovers mentioned in this thread aren't worth anyone's time. You guys should buy quality sets used. The only exception being that I drove an R32 with ST's and they aren't all that bad. On the soft side but a great improvement over stock. Aside from that I've driven on Racelands, Vmaxx, HPA's and blown FK's (because they always blow out) and wasn't impressed at all.

So why all the hate for eccentric bushings?


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## hotgrass (Aug 22, 2008)

DougLoBue said:


> I'd have to challenge you on the Kmac bushings being crap. I've had a full set of Kmac bushings in my car since way back when, think I only paid $200-250 for them or so- maybe 4 years ago and three sets of coilovers ago. They have NEVER moved out of the set -2.4' of rear camber since day one. I have only adjusted the stock toe adjustments back there during alignments.


2 sets of kmac with the same results. only took a month or two or three maybe.

























i would go with adjustable control arm. i had the gng control arms but i guess they shut downed. gruven sells one too.


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## [email protected] (Feb 6, 2007)

VroomTT said:


> Cant find ST...


We've got special pricing on ST right now. PM for details :beer:


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> Honestly I'd say that all coilovers mentioned in this thread aren't worth anyone's time. You guys should buy quality sets used. The only exception being that I drove an R32 with ST's and they aren't all that bad. On the soft side but a great improvement over stock. Aside from that I've driven on Racelands, Vmaxx, HPA's and blown FK's (because they always blow out) and wasn't impressed at all.
> 
> So why all the hate for eccentric bushings?


+1

I totally agree, the end result on eccentric bushing is ultimately the same when installed and set properly. However, the adjustable arms, I gotta admit, are a lot easier to adjust and look much cooler.

I also find it ironic to see "*I run Vmaxx*" and "*do it right the first time*" in the same post.


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## PLAYED TT (Oct 17, 2010)

DougLoBue said:


> Honestly I'd say that all coilovers mentioned in this thread aren't worth anyone's time. You guys should buy quality sets used. The only exception being that I drove an R32 with ST's and they aren't all that bad. On the soft side but a great improvement over stock. Aside from that I've driven on Racelands, Vmaxx, HPA's and blown FK's (because they always blow out) and wasn't impressed at all.


Agreed. I was on a budget, but I have no complaints from my Koni's. I would go with the St's mainly because they are V1's, just made out of a different metal:thumbup:


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## taifighter (Dec 21, 2007)

madmax199 said:


> I also find it ironic to see "*I run Vmaxx*" and "*do it right the first time*" in the same post.


You can do it right the first time by pairing the adj arms with any set of coilovers. Not everybody needs an SCCA prepped TT with $$$$ suspension, but everyone can benefit from the adjustments that those Gruven arms (or probably any manufacturer for that matter) can give you.

We've had this discussion before about the TT not being a real sports car and thus not needing the most expensive suspension setup or wheels that cost about half the value of your car. 

There are quite a few coilover setups that will work fine for your average TTer. There are also many sets of wheels that cost a fraction of what a set of BBS wheels cost that will serve a TT just fine. 

The TT is NOT the best designed performance car. Yes... it benefits from pretty much any suspension upgrade. Yes... they can be made to run quick. Yes... they look good. But after a while you are throwing money at a platform that is just not on the same level as other cars that can be had for the similar pricing.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

taifighter said:


> You can do it right the first time by pairing the adj arms with any set of coilovers. Not everybody needs an SCCA prepped TT with $$$$ suspension, but everyone can benefit from the adjustments that those Gruven arms (or probably any manufacturer for that matter) can give you.
> 
> We've had this discussion before about the TT not being a real sports car and thus not needing the most expensive suspension setup or wheels that cost about half the value of your car.
> 
> ...


Touche tai,
You are right, most around here seem fine with running almost anything, as long as they can
get "moar lo" and is cheap . 

I don't know why some around here think that you need to be building an SCCA competitive machine to want something that handles better than stock(koni,KW,Bilstein and H&R street) without braking the bank. 

I am not the one to advise anyone to run on exotic setup that they don't need or will never get to really use( H&R RSS, KW motorsports, Advance Design,Motons)

The TT is driven daily by my pregnant wife, it is not by any stretch a fully dedicated track car, everything I added to the car was budget minded but at the same time I emphasized on quality products that works.

Saying that the TT is inferior compared to other sport cars is another topic by itself. MY co-driver and I proved last year, going against highly regarded sport cars(miata, rx7, mr-2), that the TT is not to be taken lightly. Maybe nobody really took the time to prepare a TT to compete before but it is a beast in my book, being able to hang with miatas for half the time/money invested:thumbup:.


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

Okayyyyy...:screwy:

Def not trying to build a SCCA track car.

Daily driver, not going too low, and don't bespoke parts. 

Just looking for a decent set of coilovers that will last and anything else that is needed to be aligned.

Does anyone else know if FK's blow out quickly?

The FK highsport kit still seems like the "BEST-BANG-FOR-THE-BUCK" coils.

Factor in a set of lower control arms(not going too low so i think just the lowers would do?) and your looking at just over $1grand. Sounds like a good budget solution to me...


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## Tempes_TT (Oct 24, 2010)

Definitely agree with the whole SCCA track car statement... Not that that's what OP was going for, but I do feel like a lot of people seem like if we dont spend $1k per part, or dont get top notch name brand, that we did the wrong thing or are wasting our money. Now thats not to say I disrespect those whose opinions say that or anything otherwise, nor those who have had the experience with the product at hand (whether good or bad.) But, then again, it just all goes back to personal opinion and to each his own. eace:

But back to the main topic, Im also curious about the quality of those FK coilovers. I was actually eye-balling those since they look to be very promising and had a friend whose also telling me to get them..Now asking as a serious question, they wouldnt just blow up or something for no reason, would they? You'd figure half the $$ = half the quality? Id have no problem with that since these would be going on a my "fun to drive" daily and maybe someday God willing, track car.. Ive seen some pretty good reviews as far as quality.


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## [email protected] (Feb 6, 2007)

VroomTT said:


> The FK highsport kit still seems like the "BEST-BANG-FOR-THE-BUCK" coils.


Why do you say that?

KW's ST line is for all intents and purposes identical to their much more expensive Variant 1 set-up but with a galvanized body (vs. stainless steel) and 5-yr (vs. lifetime) warranty.

Even in harsh climates, a galvanized body will stay rust-free with a little bit of regular care (not letting salt, sand, etc build up over time).

We sell these for $799.52 + shipping, with an even better deal available via PM or email.

No doubt this is as self-serving a rebuttal as you're likely to see around here, but we push the ST because we believe it's the best bang-for-the-buck when it comes to coilovers. 

If you remain unconvinced, we also carry the FK line and would be happy to offer you a set of the Highsports at a most competitive price :beer:


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## Tempes_TT (Oct 24, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Why do you say that?
> 
> KW's ST line is for all intents and purposes identical to their much more expensive Variant 1 set-up but with a galvanized body (vs. stainless steel) and 5-yr (vs. lifetime) warranty.
> 
> ...


I like everything that was just said here... :thumbup::thumbup: 

Ill be in touch when the $$ rolls in


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## Vdub 2.0 (Jan 8, 2008)

if you want a product that lasts do not buy vmaxx.

if you want to go the cheapest route possible buy vmaxx.


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## taifighter (Dec 21, 2007)

Vdub 2.0 said:


> if you want a product that lasts do not buy vmaxx.
> 
> if you want to go the cheapest route possible buy vmaxx.


Funny, so far I've had mine for 2 1/2 years of DD duties, through Michigan winters, auto x, and ****ty midwest roads.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Yes FK's struts do tend to explode. Had a set on a mk2. It's almost as sure as a fact as all 020's blow up.

I've also owned a set of racelands. They were super soft but after about 3k they were super bouncy as well- requiring me to raise my mk3 up.

From those two experiences and reading about other people's on the mk3/4 forums I'd determine that any budget minded coilover you run the risk of it breaking or being inferior, but sure others have more luck. This is why I say to buy a set of USED coilovers for the same price from the mk4 R32 forum or TT classifieds. I sold my last two sets (HPA SHS & H&R Streets) for $450 & $650 and both sets worked perfectly- new owners are very happy and I never heard one complaint. I only sold them because I wanted to get a stiffer ride both times.

Is anyone here old enough to remember Patec? People praised those $650 coilovers when they came out. You saw threads about how Patec rocks and fanboys posting up in every thread that others should buy them. What did you read a year or two down the road? The complete opposite... I saw the same with Racelands on a 50+ page thread when I bought them for my mk3- I just knew that car wasn't staying around for long.

Seeing these photos of the KMAC deterioration I'm nervous now when I go to adjust my suspension and decrease the amount of rear camber this year.

OP to answer your other questions:

It depends on how far you want to go. I personally would spend a few extra bucks while you're in there and replace bushings that aren't required.

At a minimum you're going to need:
Suspension (struts/springs or coilovers)
Front strut mounts & bearings ~$30
Lower rear control arms to correct negative camber or a half kmac kit
An alignment

Optionally you could get:
Ball joints
front control arm bushings
tie rod ends
All new hardware

The optional stuff will make your steering response better and make your car feel less "floaty". I did the refresh at around 85k because it was feeling real sloppy. I also included defcons and poly bushings in replacement of the OEM rubber in mine. These modifications made a world of difference in how the car felt on the road. Made me much more confident behind the wheel. So I guess it depends on how many miles you have on your car and if you're a "I'll do it while I'm in there" kind of guy.


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

> [email protected]:
> Why do you say that?
> 
> KW's ST line is for all intents and purposes identical to their much more expensive Variant 1 set-up but with a galvanized body (vs. stainless steel) and 5-yr (vs. lifetime) warranty.
> ...


I say this for the following reasons:
1) They are a reasonably priced at $850
2) The struts are zinc coated(not sure how much that helps but its prob better than nothing)
3) They come with the new links
4) They come with the wrenches
5) They have a LIFETIME warranty
6) They have free shipping

The new links and the lifetime warranty are my sell points honestly. And FK is a company that's been around for a bit and I wouldn't be worried about calling to claim a warranty issue...

I checked your site and did not find the highsport kit... but hey if you offer the same kit to my door for less, my money goes to you friend:beer:



> DougLoBue:
> OP to answer your other questions:
> 
> It depends on how far you want to go. I personally would spend a few extra bucks while you're in there and replace bushings that aren't required.
> ...



Thank You!:beer::beer::beer::beer:

I'm pretty sure thats what myself and others were looking for.


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## [email protected] (Feb 6, 2007)

VroomTT said:


> I say this for the following reasons:
> 1) They are a reasonably priced at $850
> 2) The struts are zinc coated(not sure how much that helps but its prob better than nothing)
> 3) They come with the new links
> ...


Fair enough.

I readily admit that we still have a ways to go in uploading more product to our site, and I do apologize for the lack of FK representation. Feel free to PM me with whatever price I need to beat in order to strike a deal with you and I will reply with an offer :beer:

But for the record...  

Throughout the world, KW is typically one of the most highly regarded suspension manufacturers, they are far more active in all kinds of motorsports, and the fact they have a North American headquarters with full R&D, warehouse and warranty departments, IMO suggests that for a North American customer they are perhaps the safest bet of all when it comes to service after the sale.

Galvanized vs. zinc coating is a difficult subject to argue. Simply put, terminology gets in the way of ultimate factual detail. Next to stainless steel, a "hot-dip" galvanized treatment (what KW uses) is about as good as it gets when it comes to keeping oxidation at bay on steel-based items used in outdoor environments. But the same process involves a zinc coating, so I can't say for sure what FK uses - it could very well be the same and just as effective (I will look into this).

The ST kit comes with wrenches (but not end links).

I concede the value of a lifetime vs. 5-year warranty and totally understand your preference :beer:

We do not offer free shipping on the ST, but I can guarantee that even with shipping, and the purchase of new end links, you will still save money vs. the Highsports.

All the above aside, I'm appreciative of any opportunity to earn your business, and only post this "ST rebuttal" in case you (or anyone else here) were unaware of any of the details I've posted.

Cheers!


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Throughout the world, KW is typically one of the most highly regarded suspension manufacturers, they are far more active in all kinds of motorsports, and the fact they have a North American headquarters with full R&D, warehouse and warranty departments, IMO suggests that for a North American customer they are perhaps the safest bet of all when it comes to service after the sale.
> 
> Galvanized vs. zinc coating is a difficult subject to argue. Simply put, terminology gets in the way of ultimate factual detail. Next to stainless steel, a "hot-dip" galvanized treatment (what KW uses) is about as good as it gets when it comes to keeping oxidation at bay on steel-based items used in outdoor environments. But the same process involves a zinc coating, so I can't say for sure what FK uses - it could very well be the same and just as effective (I will look into this).
> 
> ...


Brad,
Let me start by saying that I appreciate a distributor coming into thread like this to answer questions about a product that they sell(not common here) :thumbup:.

I had promised myself before not to post in threads that involve certain brands of coilovers because obviously there is a market for them and the demographics involved in that market segment have a totally different phylosophy when it comes to coilovers and suspension in general.

The reason I am still here, although it may turn me into the bad guy, is because I get a few private messages a day lately, asking me about coilovers(from cheap to somewhat expensive). I feel that someone needs to be asking the hard questions for the rest of the community.

I understand that most have to do modifications, while staying within a budget and I'm all for products that are cheap(under a thousand for coilovers) but at least they need to work and perform as intended. I have a few questions that a lot of members would like to have answers to:

*1)* How come the coilovers are designed with a higher front spring rate(460lbs front and 400lbs rear) for a car with a motion ratio of 0.97 front and 0.63 rear? Shouldn't it be the oppsite?

*460 x .97= 466.2* effective rate at the wheel
*400 x .63= 252* effective rate at the wheel

That can not possibly work right when we all know that a higher natural frequency (in hertz) is needed in the back to keep the car from bouncing forever without having a chance to settle. That is why some coilovers are so bouncy all the time even with low spring rates(think honda civic bouncing down the highway)

*2)* You mentioned the galvanized treatment, and that's nice. However, a potential buyer I think need to know more about a product they are going to invest money in(I know I would).
You mentioned that R&D was done on the coilovers, what is the effective travel and droop on them.
If someone is to lower their car, as most in that market segment will, how can they kow they would not be bottoming out everytime they hit a dip on the road. I know other manufacturers have specific "go low" coilovers where they altered shock housing lenghts vs their inserts to allow more drop without sacrifying the available travel. Any inputs on that to your potential buyers?

*3)* Were the shock valving dynoed in the R&D that you mentioned was done?
As a distributor, I am sure you can request them from the manufacturer and post one so we can all see. So all of you reading this could understand what I'm talking about, all shocks have to be valved according to the spring rates and weight of the car they are intinded to go on. Without it, it's like buying cams with no specs; you are blind when it comes to the performance expected.

I am not trying to call you out Brad, or anything of that sort. As a matter of fact, the questions are open to any Vmaxx and other coilovers distributor/manufacturers in that "under a thousand" segment. I feel that the community need someone to ask the questions for them, instead of coming to me via PM, where I can only speculate and give "educated guess answers", without any real data.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

But I want to go low for cheap. :laugh: Seriously Max, you're way over most people's heads. As an engineer with a background in vehicle dynamics, most don't have the patience to sit down and read and interpret for themselves the things you're talking about. And that's exactly your point about demographics, most people don't care. That said, I appreciate you asking the tough questions because maybe people will start to see that something isn't "good" just because some company has been selling them for some time. I don't appreciate all the talk making me want to buy coils for my daily TT, but will one day use the info to modify the suspension of the other TT. In the mean time, I'm trying to put all the money into the drag GTI. :beer:


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## [email protected] (Feb 6, 2007)

madmax199 said:


> I am not trying to call you out Brad, or anything of that sort. As a matter of fact, the questions are open to any Vmaxx and other coilovers distributor/manufacturers in that "under a thousand" segment. I feel that the community need someone to ask the questions for them, instead of coming to me via PM, where I can only speculate and give "educated guess answers", without any real data.


Do not, for even a second, feel bad about asking these questions. While you are undoubtedly part of a small percentage of people looking for (or even able to process the implications regarding) such info, it's a positive exercise nonetheless.

That being said, for reasons I'm not entirely certain of, the data you've requested is not readily available, even to someone such as myself. I suspect that (perhaps by design?) even the manufacturers do not make detailed data available to their own people - especially those in marketing and sales. Why is this? No doubt it has to do with the "a little info in the wrong hands is dangerous" approach to marketing, as well as perhaps a perspective that such data is proprietary and necessary for keeping competitive advantage.

So to cut to the chase, I don't know the answers to your questions  I have my own educated theories, but I have copied and pasted your post and forwarded it to the tech dept @ KW. We have a pretty special relationship with these people and in fact recently worked hand-in-hand with them in developing a prototype coilover system for the new Jetta 6 (we're testing it on our company demo). So I expect some decent answers to the questions you've posed :beer:


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## beeyond (Oct 6, 2008)

V-MAXX @ Stratosphere


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