# New Amp - CC Speaker replacement ? yay or nay



## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

Hi, I could do with some expert opinions here.

Up until a little while ago, I was going to try and keep the stock speakers on my 2012 CC. I am going to be having a Audison Bit 10, and a JL 700/5, five channel amp installed later this week, all off the RCD510 head unit.. 

The JL 5channel amp is rated at 75w RMS x4, and I'm now worried that this will be too much for the stock speakers to handle, and I'll just blow them. 

So i guess I either need to get a lesser amp or upgrade the speakers to something more substantial.

I'm just not sure what's involved in replacing the speakers in all the four doors.. What replacement speaker is recommended for the CC ? that can be fitted without breaking the bank and no modding... 

If no modding is not possible, what about keeping them, and just running with what I was going to? Or do you think that is just a no no ! OR keep the stock speakers and just get a lesser amp. 

Advice please, as i said, all this was going to be installed at the end of the week, so any replies appreicated. 

This car does not have the dynaudio.. just the standard 8 speaker Premium VIII RCD510 setup.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

Take some time, save some money, do it in stages... and upgrade the speakers along with your new amp. 

I do recall that when I had my speakers upgraded, the stereo shop didn't just pop the new speakers in. They said that that would not be a good, tight fit. They made these little speaker mounts to help get a secure mounting to the door. The bass response of your speakers will partly depend on how securely they are mounted to the door. Again, save some money and have it done right (if you are not a DIY guy).

Good luck and happy listening.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

I ran a 70x4 amp on my stock speakers and they lasted fine over the 2 yrs i had them in. 

Sound quality with amping the oem speakers was substantially better. And you can limit the bass going to them making it lesser of a chnace to blow the speakers. 

You can also keep the gains turned down a little so the full power isnt getting blasted to them. 

Go for it amping the stock speakers wont hurt you at all. Aftermarket components will sound better and hold the power better but if you want to do it in steps go for it, im happy i did 
Sent from my EVO


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

Bill6211789 said:


> I ran a 70x4 amp on my stock speakers and they lasted fine over the 2 yrs i had them in.
> 
> Sound quality with amping the oem speakers was substantially better. And you can limit the bass going to them making it lesser of a chnace to blow the speakers.
> 
> ...


Great and thanks. I wonder, does anyone actually know what the RMS rating is on the stock speakers? 

I'm never going to crank it up that much, looking more for a tight bass and clarity over the muddy distorting mess it is now.


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

I just did this project and was surprised how hard I had to hunt for information. Hopefully, my recent install will help you with some of the parameters.

From what I have read, they will sound pretty good with a decent amp on them. But if you are going to go to the trouble of adding an amp, don't try to match it to the OEM speakers. Pick out some nice component sets that you will add later and get an amp to drive those. You can set the inputs up to not overdrive your stock speakers; then, redo it when you get some good speakers. 

I was impatient and had a local shop do my amp, speakers and line output EQ correction converter all at once. Was glad I did. They did a great job and, afterward, said that if they had to do it again, they would have charged me a lot more. 

There are always surprises with German cars. For instance, if you want to use the factory mounts, the easiest thing to do is cut the factory speakers out. I had seen this on the internet before the install and wasn't surprised or hesitant when the audio shop called and asked if I minded if they took a knife to the factory speakers. 

Also, you will find conflicting information on what size speakers will fit the front versus the rear door. I can tell you that 6.5" woofers and 1" tweeters will fit the factory location without spacers if you use the factory rings (at least the way my guys did it). For the front mid tweet, I went with a 3" just to be on the safe side, but I recall reading that it will take a 4" speaker. As for depth, my front speakers had a top mount depth of 2.63". My rears had a tmd of 2.5".


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

dcbc said:


> I just did this project and was surprised how hard I had to hunt for information. Hopefully, my recent install will help you with some of the parameters.
> 
> From what I have read, they will sound pretty good with a decent amp on them. But if you are going to go to the trouble of adding an amp, don't try to match it to the OEM speakers. Pick out some nice component sets that you will add later and get an amp to drive those. You can set the inputs up to not overdrive your stock speakers; then, redo it when you get some good speakers.
> 
> ...


Thanks !! This is the most useful post I've read on the whole project. Right now, I simply do not have the clearance from the missus to spend out any extra on the speakers, so I'm going to run with the stocks for now.. As above, using the 5 channel XD7005 tamed down. I'll repost tomorrow to let everyone know how good it sounds. I'll probably will get the speakers done at a later date and be able to compare. All in all, the Audison Bit Ten, XD7005 amp and sub, along with all the cables and install is going to cost me $1500.

My main concern was / is frying the oems, but it sounds like taming down the amp is all i need to do. 

Do you recall which actual model speakers you used? Even so, it still seems its going to take some modding, beyond my skills and all at more than I'm willing to pay right now.. Only bought the car two weeks ago, and that's already put a hole in my pocket. 

Thanks once again.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

TheDoc46 said:


> Thanks !! This is the most useful post I've read on the whole project. Right now, I simply do not have the clearance from the missus to spend out any extra on the speakers, so I'm going to run with the stocks for now.. As above, using the 5 channel XD7005 tamed down. I'll repost tomorrow to let everyone know how good it sounds. I'll probably will get the speakers done at a later date and be able to compare. All in all, the Audison Bit Ten, XD7005 amp and sub, along with all the cables and install is going to cost me $1500.
> 
> My main concern was / is frying the oems, but it sounds like taming down the amp is all i need to do.
> 
> ...


Im running JBL MS Series components they sound absolutely amazing. I would highly recommend using a sound dampening material on the door (i didn't do it when i installed an i regret it and also to turn the rear tweeters to there minimal output, being right behind your head they can be very overpowering


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

TheDoc46 said:


> Thanks !! This is the most useful post I've read on the whole project. Right now, I simply do not have the clearance from the missus to spend out any extra on the speakers, so I'm going to run with the stocks for now.. As above, using the 5 channel XD7005 tamed down. I'll repost tomorrow to let everyone know how good it sounds. I'll probably will get the speakers done at a later date and be able to compare. All in all, the Audison Bit Ten, XD7005 amp and sub, along with all the cables and install is going to cost me $1500.
> 
> My main concern was / is frying the oems, but it sounds like taming down the amp is all i need to do.
> 
> ...


Here are the speakers. The first listed were the most reasonably priced speakers with good reviews I could find in a 3 way that were still available at that time (there were some distribution issues with the Vibe Space 6 and the tweeter may have been too big).

MTX RE-Q5 to correct the EQ and output 4 channels line level.

Polk PA 500.4 4-channel amp (90 watts per channel RMS).

Front Stage: CDT CL6E32 3-Way 6/3/1 Component

Rear Stage: CDT CL-61A/TW-24 2-way Component

Purchased the speakers from Woofers Etc. Purchased the Amp refurbed from Polk's Ebay Store. Got the ReQ5 from an Amazon seller.


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

dcbc said:


> Here are the speakers. The first listed were the most reasonably priced speakers with good reviews I could find in a 3 way that were still available at that time (there were some distribution issues with the Vibe Space 6 and the tweeter may have been too big).
> 
> MTX RE-Q5 to correct the EQ and output 4 channels line level.
> 
> ...


Excellent info once again.

My car is currently in the auto audio store as i type this. Staying with the stock speakers for now and they're turning down the gain, until a later date as to when I can upgrade to the CDT's you spec'd.

My amp is a 5 channel JL XD700/5 So with that extra channel I'll be powering a small enclosed subwoofer. I'm not after windows shaking 3 miles down the road. This will be just to help with the warmth of some sub bass. 

For my equalization, I'm going with an Audison Bit/10, instead of an REQ5. I thought what the heck, it'll all come with me in any future cars, so may aswell get all decent stuff now.. The only thing that is disposable is the speakers, so if I'm happy with the sound, and i'm sure I will be, then I may just keep the stock speakers. 


Two weeks ago, I was driving an Audi A4 cab, and the integrated audio, was with no sub, but it definately had more presence than the CC's and was fine enough for me to not ever look at upgrading. However I didn't find it the same on the CC which prompted me to go out and figure out a way to improve.


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

Bill6211789 said:


> Im running JBL MS Series components they sound absolutely amazing. I would highly recommend using a sound dampening material on the door (i didn't do it when i installed an i regret it and also to turn the rear tweeters to there minimal output, being right behind your head they can be very overpowering


Hey Bill, on these JLB's MS's was that for the front / back or both? Actually looking at your profile it says you have a B6, not a CC. Is that correct, so possibly not suited for a CC ? 

I'm trying to price up what my best options are for me on a CC if I eventually did decide to replace the stock speakers with something else. So far DCBC's post on the CDTs look like the best bet, providing you cut out the stock and use the existing brackets. 

But of course, its good to weigh up all options.


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

TheDoc46 said:


> Excellent info once again.
> 
> My car is currently in the auto audio store as i type this. Staying with the stock speakers for now and they're turning down the gain, until a later date as to when I can upgrade to the CDT's you spec'd.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good plan. I definitely am happy with my choice with the CDT speakers, but go spend some time over on diymobileaudio.com and decide what's best for you and your budget. Lots of choices out there (although admittedly fewer when it comes to 3-ways if you decide to go that route). 

For the sub, I am probably going to take a hard look at the JBL GTO series. They get rave reviews and are under $100.


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## Trade-N-Games (Feb 22, 2008)

Ditch the rear tweet when it comes time for replacing them. They are inches from your ears and draw the sound back to quick. Just run a nice 2 way in the lower door or go custom in rear deck.


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

Trade-N-Games said:


> Ditch the rear tweet when it comes time for replacing them. They are inches from your ears and draw the sound back to quick. Just run a nice 2 way in the lower door or go custom in rear deck.


From reading a lot of your posts prior to my upgrade, this is definitely something I considered doing, but ultimately did not. Though I have not noticed any excessive highs from the rear tweets, I have considered fading the sound to the front stage a bit more. But when I looked in my music settings on the RCD 510, I was surprised to not see a fade setting. Is there one and, if there is, where is it in the menus?

I suppose I could drop my rear gains at the amp if I needed to.


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

dcbc said:


> From reading a lot of your posts prior to my upgrade, this is definitely something I considered doing, but ultimately did not. Though I have not noticed any excessive highs from the rear tweets, I have considered fading the sound to the front stage a bit more. But when I looked in my music settings on the RCD 510, I was surprised to not see a fade setting. Is there one and, if there is, where is it in the menus?
> 
> I suppose I could drop my rear gains at the amp if I needed to.


We'll there's definately one on mine.. I'm wondering if it knows that nothing's connected to the rear or front speakers, since the MTX is tapped into only one set. It's all on the tone controls button on the top left of the unit. 

Interesting. I thought you'd still have the ability to control fade & balance and tone controls via the HU, even using a LOC.


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

TheDoc46 said:


> We'll there's definately one on mine.. I'm wondering if it knows that nothing's connected to the rear or front speakers, since the MTX is tapped into only one set. It's all on the tone controls button on the top left of the unit.
> 
> Interesting. I thought you'd still have the ability to control fade & balance and tone controls via the HU, even using a LOC.


Sorry, that's the tone button on the TOP RIGHT of the unit !


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

TheDoc46 said:


> Hey Bill, on these JLB's MS's was that for the front / back or both? Actually looking at your profile it says you have a B6, not a CC. Is that correct, so possibly not suited for a CC ?
> 
> I'm trying to price up what my best options are for me on a CC if I eventually did decide to replace the stock speakers with something else. So far DCBC's post on the CDTs look like the best bet, providing you cut out the stock and use the existing brackets.
> 
> But of course, its good to weigh up all options.


I have the same setup in the front and rear. The passat and cc have the same speaker set up. 

The reason i didnt go with a 3 way set up in the front doors is bc of the price. 800+ (focals were all i found at the time of install and they were $3k iirc) for just the fronts and i want all JBL. Later on i can add mids if i really want to for about 300-400$ but right now with the quality of the sound i have its not needed. 

Sent from my EVO


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

dcbc said:


> I suppose I could drop my rear gains at the amp if I needed to.


This is what I did on mine, dropped the rear gain. Those rear tweets are awfully close to your head and I wanted a forward biased stereo image.

I believe the issues id'd above with speaker mounting in German cars is what I encountered and alluded to in a prior post. So again, the speaker mounting is not so straight-forward.


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

irongrey said:


> This is what I did on mine, dropped the rear gain. Those rear tweets are awfully close to your head and I wanted a forward biased stereo image.
> 
> I believe the issues id'd above with speaker mounting in German cars is what I encountered and alluded to in a prior post. So again, the speaker mounting is not so straight-forward.


Do you think its possible just to get two pairs of 6.5 2-way's? and be done with it? Surely has got to be better than the stock speakers? and be done away with all the complicated mounting?


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## Trade-N-Games (Feb 22, 2008)

Quick jack---- What dash kit looks the best for aftermarket head unit??? Metra or Scosch?

On Topic
Just speakers 2ways would not be much better. the fronts sound much better if you can get a little more power to them. I did my head unit in my first last Dub and the stock speakers were amazing.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

TheDoc46 said:


> Do you think its possible just to get two pairs of 6.5 2-way's? and be done with it? Surely has got to be better than the stock speakers? and be done away with all the complicated mounting?


You could but quality wise you're going to lose out 

Sent from my EVO


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

dcbc said:


> From reading a lot of your posts prior to my upgrade, this is definitely something I considered doing, but ultimately did not. Though I have not noticed any excessive highs from the rear tweets, I have considered fading the sound to the front stage a bit more. But when I looked in my music settings on the RCD 510, I was surprised to not see a fade setting. Is there one and, if there is, where is it in the menus?
> 
> I suppose I could drop my rear gains at the amp if I needed to.





TheDoc46 said:


> We'll there's definately one on mine.. I'm wondering if it knows that nothing's connected to the rear or front speakers, since the MTX is tapped into only one set. It's all on the tone controls button on the top left of the unit.
> 
> Interesting. I thought you'd still have the ability to control fade & balance and tone controls via the HU, even using a LOC.


Well I can confirm that after my install of the Audison Bit/10 and amp, that I no longer have my fader option. It's gone ! All my other controls are there, such as balance, mid, bass, treble etc, but fader is gone.

As far as the install went, it went WAY over what the shop was expecting. Actually they spent from 10am to 7pm on the install. They've done a great job on the wiring mind. Not sure exactly how I'm going to get to my stuff to play around with any dials, since its behind the carpet in the spare area over the rear arch. Everything has been installed professionally, no doubt. It was a Friday night, their guys wanted to get home, i wanted to get home, so the system wasn't correctly tuned. I will be going back in a week or two to have that part resolved. It sounded good, but not OMG this is unbelieveably great. But I think that's partially down to running out of time on tuning. It really was a v.quick tune and on my way. 

My biggest concern is the amount of time it took for the install. I invested a good amount of money in the assumption that it would be coming with me to my next cars, but if its taken them 9hrs to get in, then surely it's going to take htem a few hrs to remove and equally the same amount of time to put in to any future car. If labor is going to cost $80, then this is a concern ! 

Admitedly they did say they had not worked on my car before so it was a learning experience, and they are perfectionists so everything has to be metaciously done. I don't believe they took any short cuts on the physical install.. Perhaps the final touches on the cross over freq and tuning, but as i said, the shop had closed and they were still finishing up on the install, and they did say, you're going to need to come back for the tuning. 

Anyway, I'll report back after a few days of listening, once i figure out how to use this Audison Bit 10 EQ, which in all honesty looks like you need to be a sound engineer to figure out.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

TheDoc46 said:


> Well I can confirm that after my install of the Audison Bit/10 and amp, that I no longer have my fader option. It's gone ! All my other controls are there, such as balance, mid, bass, treble etc, but fader is gone.
> 
> As far as the install went, it went WAY over what the shop was expecting. Actually they spent from 10am to 7pm on the install. They've done a great job on the wiring mind. Not sure exactly how I'm going to get to my stuff to play around with any dials, since its behind the carpet in the spare area over the rear arch. Everything has been installed professionally, no doubt. It was a Friday night, their guys wanted to get home, i wanted to get home, so the system wasn't correctly tuned. I will be going back in a week or two to have that part resolved. It sounded good, but not OMG this is unbelieveably great. But I think that's partially down to running out of time on tuning. It really was a v.quick tune and on my way.
> 
> ...


I dont understand why your fade doesnt work, when u move it in either direction does the sound at any point turn off? 

If you used a 5ch loc you should have all 4 chs going into it the bal and fad should work as they do from the factory. 

And the amount of time is no Surprise, it took me roughly 6 hrs to install, sub, power cables, run the speaker wire, new head unit and all of its bits and pieces then installing the 4ch amp and the single ch sub amp. 

The on a different day i did the components install and that was another 8 or so hours start to finish.

Very long job 

Sent from my EVO


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## Trade-N-Games (Feb 22, 2008)

I dont have a fade button for front to rear on mine. I think if I went to the dealer and got a update flash it would be installed but Im getting ready to put a new head unit in so I dont care.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

Trade-N-Games said:


> I dont have a fade button for front to rear on mine. I think if I went to the dealer and got a update flash it would be installed but Im getting ready to put a new head unit in so I dont care.


You mean your HU has no fade at all in the settings? 

Sent from my EVO


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## M3Tech (Jan 26, 2007)

TheDoc46 said:


> Well I can confirm that after my install of the Audison Bit/10 and amp, that I no longer have my fader option. It's gone ! All my other controls are there, such as balance, mid, bass, treble etc, but fader is gone.


The OEM HU Fader adjustment display is determined by the speaker impedance detection. 

No speaker impedance detected by the OEM HU = no Fader adjustment.


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

M3Tech said:


> The OEM HU Fader adjustment display is determined by the speaker impedance detection.
> 
> No speaker impedance detected by the OEM HU = no Fader adjustment.


It's no big deal for me, since I have an Audison Bit/10 in which i can control the fader via my laptop and the Audison software. Not sure how you'd control it with an MTX-Q5 though? Something for people to consider if they're going with a less controllable LOC.


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

TheDoc46 said:


> Well I can confirm that after my install of the Audison Bit/10 and amp, that I no longer have my fader option. It's gone ! All my other controls are there, such as balance, mid, bass, treble etc, but fader is gone.
> 
> As far as the install went, it went WAY over what the shop was expecting. Actually they spent from 10am to 7pm on the install. They've done a great job on the wiring mind. Not sure exactly how I'm going to get to my stuff to play around with any dials, since its behind the carpet in the spare area over the rear arch. Everything has been installed professionally, no doubt. It was a Friday night, their guys wanted to get home, i wanted to get home, so the system wasn't correctly tuned. I will be going back in a week or two to have that part resolved. It sounded good, but not OMG this is unbelieveably great. But I think that's partially down to running out of time on tuning. It really was a v.quick tune and on my way.
> 
> ...


I got several estimates in writing before I had mine done. The shop that did it kept it nearly a week and worked on it when not working on projects for customers who bought their components from the shop (this was understood from the get go and they are the ones I wanted working on it - plus, their price was very good). Afterward, they said they would probably have quoted me double if they had it to do over again.

As for speaker cost, the CDT 3-ways ran me $299. If I had not run across these, I would have gone with 2-ways. The guy who did my install was pretty impressed with them, particularly the bass response in the rears.

I still have my balance control, but no fader in my tone menu. I did have it before the install IIRC. They must have just tied in the fronts.


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

TheDoc46 said:


> It's no big deal for me, since I have an Audison Bit/10 in which i can control the fader via my laptop and the Audison software. Not sure how you'd control it with an MTX-Q5 though? Something for people to consider if they're going with a less controllable LOC.


The ReQ5 has enough controls to dial the levels up and down just like the amp. Mine is installed under the driver's seat and easy enough to access. The way they set mine up, the rear tweeters aren't bothering me.

Here is a picture of the ReQ5.


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## xx4u2nvxx (Nov 28, 2010)

So I have been doing [a little bit] of research since I too want to upgrade my stereo [can't stand stock] and going to be adding amps to my stock HU -- though ReQ5 seems to be a common suggestion, others have suggest AudioControl [not sure which mode] as well -- thoughts...?


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## bugaudiophile (Mar 14, 2010)

I just wrote a massive post only to have it time out and now I don't feel like writing it again. Sorry.

Here is the abbreviated version.

Your fader doesn't work because the front speaker outputs are sending a signal to the Bit10. The rear speaker outputs on the radio are not hooked up. The Bit10 has independent level controls and you can adjust the front-to-rear fade through the Audison computer software. Using the gain on the amp to do this will "work" but is the incorrect method. 

READ THIS PART:

The way your installer hooked this up (at least what I have derived from your posts) is sad. Bring that thing back and tell them you want an active front stage. He should hook the rear speakers back up to the radio (fader will work again) and power the front tweeters from two channels of the amp and the front midbass from the other two channels. Sub stays put. This will allow you to take FULL ADVANTAGE of the electronic crossover, time alignment, independent level control, and eq functions the Bit10 has to offer.

You have all of the equipment you need to accomplish this and will only need some more speaker wire. Don't let them sell you anything else! :facepalm:

Oh, btw... The oem speakers will absolutely JAM with that setup. Save your money.


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

xx4u2nvxx said:


> So I have been doing [a little bit] of research since I too want to upgrade my stereo [can't stand stock] and going to be adding amps to my stock HU -- though ReQ5 seems to be a common suggestion, others have suggest AudioControl [not sure which mode] as well -- thoughts...?


To do all of the channels with audiocontrol, you would need to do a pair of Lc2i's. The Lc6i does not do eq correction. I bought one originally and had to sell it when I discovered this.


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

bugaudiophile said:


> I just wrote a massive post only to have it time out and now I don't feel like writing it again. Sorry.
> 
> Here is the abbreviated version.
> 
> ...


I'll ask them to go with an active front stage, once I get round to upgrading the speakers. Right now, the system is sounding pretty good to me. I had a tweak on the Bit/10 via my computer and tuned it more to my liking. The problem is, what sounds good for one genre of music, may not sound good for another. So I can see myself forever tweaking. Unfortunately all of last week, I had to fly away on business, so I have'nt really had a chance to fully settle in and get a proper impression. All that I've had so far was quick drives around my neighborhood and sitting in the garage. A lot of the distortion that was evident on the stock HU amplification is gone, so I may just stick with the way it is.. Another week or so or driving to work and back, will be what is needed to really get a feel if it's what I'm happy with.


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

bugaudiophile said:


> Oh, btw... The oem speakers will absolutely JAM with that setup. Save your money.


What do mean by that? 

Like sound good if you go with your recommended active front setup?

Or sound crap and save your money. 

i'm guessing you're probably saying the latter, but in general when you say JAM, you associate that with a positive meaning when it comes to music. Hence my questioning.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

bugaudiophile said:


> Bring that thing back and tell them you want an active front stage. He should hook the rear speakers back up to the radio (fader will work again) and power the front tweeters from two channels of the amp and the front midbass from the other two channels. Sub stays put. This will allow you to take FULL ADVANTAGE of the electronic crossover, time alignment, independent level control, and eq functions the Bit10 has to offer.


Yes! This is how I have mine set up except I use the RF 360.2. I have a channel for each of the 4 front speaks and have deleted the hardware crossover (added power drain and distortion). I control the crossovers, EQ, and time delay with my DSP and it sounds great. Highly recommended if you can do it.


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## bugaudiophile (Mar 14, 2010)

TheDoc46 said:


> What do mean by that?
> 
> Like sound good if you go with your recommended active front setup?
> 
> ...


The OEM speakers will sound excellent with the extra power and active crossover.


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

bugaudiophile said:


> The OEM speakers will sound excellent with the extra power and active crossover.


Cool. So by this active front stage, are you suggesting, removing the rear speaker ampiflication, and just using the HU's amplification for the rears? The amp is 5 channel.

ATM it's powering front component 3 way's as one, using 2 channels, and the rear component 2 way's as one, with the other two channels, and the last channel the sub. 

If you say use the 4 channels for the tweeters and the front mid's, then what's to amplify the front woofers, and the rear tweeters and woofers? The HU ? Surely I'll be bringing in distortion from those if they're only powered using the HU, since that was my main gripe in the first place. The lack of power causing the OEM's to flap, fart and boom, instead of clean, tight with a punch. Right now, i seem to have that setup. I know I could improve, but only with spending money on equipment that I wouldn't be able to transport into the next car, ie dynamat and replacement speakers. For the most part, I'm happy, i had a good drive today and really enjoyed the audio.. As soon as I stop analysing and actually get down to listening for enjoyment, that'll be the true test.


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

The audiophiles ordinarily concentrate on the front stage. I think you may understand his suggestion, but I'll let him clarify that. One point of clarification though. The stock front speakers are not 3 way components. They are 2-ways. Basically, a 3/4" tweeter and a slightly larger than 6.5" woofer. Premium 8 = 2 speakers per door times 4.


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## bugaudiophile (Mar 14, 2010)

TheDoc46 said:


> Cool. So by this active front stage, are you suggesting, removing the rear speaker ampiflication, and just using the HU's amplification for the rears? The amp is 5 channel.


Yes



TheDoc46 said:


> ATM it's powering front component 3 way's as one, using 2 channels, and the rear component 2 way's as one, with the other two channels, and the last channel the sub.


If you really do have a 3way front stage, then you have the dynaudio system. You won't be able to go full active in that case (at least not with the bit10). You can try hooking up the tweeters and mids together on two channels and the woofers on the other two channels. The tuning for this is going to get complicated though.



TheDoc46 said:


> If you say use the 4 channels for the tweeters and the front mid's, then what's to amplify the front woofers, and the rear tweeters and woofers? The HU ? Surely I'll be bringing in distortion from those if they're only powered using the HU, since that was my main gripe in the first place. The lack of power causing the OEM's to flap, fart and boom, instead of clean, tight with a punch. Right now, i seem to have that setup. I know I could improve, but only with spending money on equipment that I wouldn't be able to transport into the next car, ie dynamat and replacement speakers. For the most part, I'm happy, i had a good drive today and really enjoyed the audio.. As soon as I stop analysing and actually get down to listening for enjoyment, that'll be the true test.


READ THIS PART: Again...

The way your installer hooked this up (at least what I have derived from your posts) is sad. Bring that thing back and tell them you want an active front stage. He should hook the rear speakers back up to the radio (fader will work again) and power the front tweeters from two channels of the amp and the front midbass from the other two channels. Sub stays put. This will allow you to take FULL ADVANTAGE of the electronic crossover, time alignment, independent level control, and eq functions the Bit10 has to offer.

The rear speakers are for "ambiance" and should barely be audible when everything is up and running. Think of it this way... when you are at a concert or recording studio, the only speakers present are IN FRONT of you. Any sound you hear from behind is simply a reflection off of something. This is what you are trying to replicate in your car, right? Use all of the power and processing ability you have to control the speakers that matter, the fronts.


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## RudydG (Jan 15, 2012)

bugaudiophile said:


> Yes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So, in case of a 5 channel amp and a 5 outpit dsp like the bit ten, you prefer to split the fronts (high and low) and do no ampification or timing on the rears? That would mean, that we should get an advantage by going full 4 active on the fronts, versus a good timing af the rears?


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

dcbc said:


> The audiophiles ordinarily concentrate on the front stage. I think you may understand his suggestion, but I'll let him clarify that. One point of clarification though. The stock front speakers are not 3 way components. They are 2-ways. Basically, a 3/4" tweeter and a slightly larger than 6.5" woofer. Premium 8 = 2 speakers per door times 4.


Back in the day, when I was last into in car audio, which was back in the early 90's, and I was in England back then, we had smaller hatch cars, such as VW Gti's, and we'd take off the parcel shelf and replace it with custom MDF, and only use the front for ambience. In other words vice versa. I understand what is being said of recording studio, home etc, that you want the sound stage from infront of you.. But I'm not really being sold on the idea. Cars are different from recording studio's or your living room. In a car it's nice to be immersed with the sound all around. For me at least. Perhaps its not the correct way to do it to win competitions, but fronts of cars are not ideal stages anyway, the doors as enclosures can normally only house small woofers, and the rear has to house a sub. The transition from mid to low frequency will become more apparent IMHO using an active front stage. As I said, each to their own. I like an equal amount of clarity and punch coming from each door. I personally feel it blends in everything and immerses you better. 

I use to work in home audio more as a hobby more than anything. Audiophiles would come into the shop and spend an absolute fortune on a natural sounding amp, with absolutely zero control of the sound. But to me it sounded completely drab and unexciting. I personally liked an amp that had bass and treble controls, in which i could up the bass, and i always liked to include a subwoofer to give the music extra warmth and depth.. But to an audiophile that was a BIG NO NO !! It was like they were governed by a set of snobbery rules, which to me, made a 10k amp sound worse than a 2k amp. But this is a hobby and really each to their own. Not saying one way is the correct.. It's whatever each individual prefers.


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## bugaudiophile (Mar 14, 2010)

TheDoc46 said:


> "In a car it's nice to be immersed with the sound all around. For me at least.][Not saying one way is the correct.. It's whatever each individual prefers."


Your car-your money. Enjoy the new system :thumbup:


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## JHolmes (May 14, 2010)

I only picked up one thing from this post. Lol. 

Abbreviated - 'I can't imagine how much time/money it'll take to get it out."

Short answer - Little to none. Especially if the shopped has tapped into the factory wiring (Probably since you didn't install different speakers) You'd pull the main components, hide the wiring, pull the head unit, reinstall factory fittings and move on.

Cheaper to buy new wiring then remove it. 

* Didn't read the whole thread. Feel free to tell me to go the F on if I missed something. 


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

TheDoc46 said:


> Back in the day, when I was last into in car audio, which was back in the early 90's, and I was in England back then, we had smaller hatch cars, such as VW Gti's, and we'd take off the parcel shelf and replace it with custom MDF, and only use the front for ambience. In other words vice versa. I understand what is being said of recording studio, home etc, that you want the sound stage from infront of you.. But I'm not really being sold on the idea. Cars are different from recording studio's or your living room. In a car it's nice to be immersed with the sound all around. For me at least. Perhaps its not the correct way to do it to win competitions, but fronts of cars are not ideal stages anyway, the doors as enclosures can normally only house small woofers, and the rear has to house a sub. The transition from mid to low frequency will become more apparent IMHO using an active front stage. As I said, each to their own. I like an equal amount of clarity and punch coming from each door. I personally feel it blends in everything and immerses you better.
> 
> I use to work in home audio more as a hobby more than anything. Audiophiles would come into the shop and spend an absolute fortune on a natural sounding amp, with absolutely zero control of the sound. But to me it sounded completely drab and unexciting. I personally liked an amp that had bass and treble controls, in which i could up the bass, and i always liked to include a subwoofer to give the music extra warmth and depth.. But to an audiophile that was a BIG NO NO !! It was like they were governed by a set of snobbery rules, which to me, made a 10k amp sound worse than a 2k amp. But this is a hobby and really each to their own. Not saying one way is the correct.. It's whatever each individual prefers.


Hey, you're talking to the guy who is running front and rears off a four channel. I have rear passengers and they get their own speakers. I know there are guys who just want the front stage, but I"m perfectly happy running my fronts a little higher and keeping my rears well amplified. I know that rear tweeter is close to my ear, but too much loud music in my youth must have deafened me a bit. Because I really have to try to isolate it in my consciousness to notice it. 

Lastly, a true audiophile would never start the car or drive on the road. That road noise will just ruin good sound. 

Honestly, I get the point of what the diymobileaudio guys are trying to get, but each person has to do what is right for them. The way I have mine set up, everything is getting optimal power and sounds great. I get really nice bass from the rears and don't hear the highs. I don't hear sound from behind and am noticing details in my music that I haven't noticed in a long time. I call that great for what I want out of it.


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## jamesfarrell (Mar 21, 2012)

I have a couple questions. 

1. I'm from Mass. Are there any recommendations to who can do this in my state. That is install a sub, amp and 4 speakers?

2. What are the best speakers that will fit without butchering my CC 2012 sport?

3. There are only 4 speakers in the sport right? 

4. Will $1000 be enough for a nice system? I have an alpine NAV system in there. Want to keep that, but would like to upgrade the stock speakers as they sound like sh*t. 

I don't need an equalizer and crossover and all that. I want to keep it simple, have a loud system that sounds good. Not like the RAP guys bass but something decent. I have tinnitus as it is.


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## TheDoc46 (Feb 12, 2012)

jamesfarrell said:


> I have a couple questions.
> 
> 1. I'm from Mass. Are there any recommendations to who can do this in my state. That is install a sub, amp and 4 speakers?
> 
> ...


It sounds to me that all you really need, since you've already replaced the head unit, is an amp and some speakers. Not sure on the best fit, but nothing fits just in, you'll need to do some butchering. 6.5 component 2 way is what you need to be looking at. Speakers for two sets of 2 way components, you're probably looking at $600 + $200 installation, and an amp, you can either go with a 4 way and do an active front stage, and use the HU amplification for the rears, or if you're music taste likes more sub bass, get a 5 channel and add a small sub. But then you're looking more at around $1200 - $1400 . Post some pics of your hu please, so we can see how well it blends in. 

Thanks


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## jamesfarrell (Mar 21, 2012)

TheDoc46 said:


> It sounds to me that all you really need, since you've already replaced the head unit, is an amp and some speakers. Not sure on the best fit, but nothing fits just in, you'll need to do some butchering. 6.5 component 2 way is what you need to be looking at. Speakers for two sets of 2 way components, you're probably looking at $600 + $200 installation, and an amp, you can either go with a 4 way and do an active front stage, and use the HU amplification for the rears, or if you're music taste likes more sub bass, get a 5 channel and add a small sub. But then you're looking more at around $1200 - $1400 . Post some pics of your hu please, so we can see how well it blends in.
> 
> Thanks


Night time around here. Will take day pics too.


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## jamesfarrell (Mar 21, 2012)

Everything seems to work. Except the phone button on the left on the wheel does nothing until someone calls, then I can use it to answer. However I have to use the screen on the alpine to disconnect. 

Also, I don't know with the stock VW radio if you can scroll through the address book on an iphone. 
But the Alpine has the ability to scroll through address book, recent calls (which worked the other day but does not today) for some reason. 

Yeah I'll probably go with a 5 way amp to power a sub and the 4 speakers. The stock speakers sound like crap. 

So I noticed today there is a tweeter at the top of the door by the mirror? Is that right?


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## CC Rider (Jul 29, 2010)

@Jamesfarrell. Where in mass are you. I am also in mass and know of a few very good installers. I worked in car audio for a few years and have made some great contacts. I will be installing new speakers and amp in my CC this summer. I'm almost thinking I will amp the stock speakers just for fun. I really think the stock speakers don't sound to bad. JMO. I think with a small sub I can turn the bass down a bit on the stocks and get better sound from them. A lot of people say the speakers sound like crap, but how loud are they playing them?


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## jamesfarrell (Mar 21, 2012)

CC Rider said:


> @Jamesfarrell. Where in mass are you. I am also in mass and know of a few very good installers. I worked in car audio for a few years and have made some great contacts. I will be installing new speakers and amp in my CC this summer. I'm almost thinking I will amp the stock speakers just for fun. I really think the stock speakers don't sound to bad. JMO. I think with a small sub I can turn the bass down a bit on the stocks and get better sound from them. A lot of people say the speakers sound like crap, but how loud are they playing them?


Hi there. I'm in Worcester. I'd pay you to do it if your interested. I hate paying hacks and I'd do it myself but I told myself a few years ago, no more working on cars :what:

I listen to music like a teenager. I play in a band. Everything in my life is loud


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## CC Rider (Jul 29, 2010)

jamesfarrell said:


> Hi there. I'm in Worcester. I'd pay you to do it if your interested. I hate paying hacks and I'd do it myself but I told myself a few years ago, no more working on cars :what:
> 
> I listen to music like a teenager. I play in a band. Everything in my life is loud


I keep my music below 100db these days. And a disc problem has kept me from working on my car as well as others. I've been told by many that this place does fantastic work. Good luck. 

http://www.eckr.com/


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## SR7D1 (Sep 30, 2005)

Hey everyone. I hope this is not too dumb of a question, but here goes. I just bought a 2012 Lux Ltd cc with the standard audio and RNS-510. I would like to add an amp and new speakers, but can't find the harness that would allow me to hook the factory HU to the amp?

Sounds like you guys know all about this kind of upgrade, based off this thread. But I did not see how to keep the factory HU and attach it to the new amp?


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

SR7D1 said:


> Hey everyone. I hope this is not too dumb of a question, but here goes. I just bought a 2012 Lux Ltd cc with the standard audio and RNS-510. I would like to add an amp and new speakers, but can't find the harness that would allow me to hook the factory HU to the amp?
> 
> Sounds like you guys know all about this kind of upgrade, based off this thread. But I did not see how to keep the factory HU and attach it to the new amp?


You need this http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Foua8kDFn9w/p_161LC7IG/AudioControl-LC7i-Gray.html?tp=37274


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## SR7D1 (Sep 30, 2005)

Thanks Bill! I was hoping for a plug and play harness option. I did not want to cut and splice wires if I could avoid it. Anyone else?opcorn:


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

SR7D1 said:


> Thanks Bill! I was hoping for a plug and play harness option. I did not want to cut and splice wires if I could avoid it. Anyone else?opcorn:


There will be nothing plug and play. 

The only way to get a more "plug and play" hook up for these cars is if u were to buy an amp that has an LOC built in. 

Sent from my Galaxy SIII


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## Kvn22 (Apr 1, 2009)

OR You can buy my brand new and never installed JL Audio system.

900/5 HD
13W5
Two sets of C5 650's
Full clean sweep system
Amp kit
Two sets of RCA cables

All JL Audio Brand.

PM me for pricing


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## BSFatonovich (Jan 6, 2014)

I am replying to an old thread, but hopefully can get some help. I want to update my system. While keeping the HU, I am looking to do an amp and two sets of two way components. The JBL's look nice, but if anyone has some better ideas, they are appreciated. My other question is in regard to a DSP. Anyone use this, and how did you like it?

Thanks.


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

BSFatonovich said:


> I am replying to an old thread, but hopefully can get some help. I want to update my system. While keeping the HU, I am looking to do an amp and two sets of two way components. The JBL's look nice, but if anyone has some better ideas, they are appreciated. My other question is in regard to a DSP. Anyone use this, and how did you like it?
> 
> Thanks.


Try the CDTs I listed earlier in this thread. A couple of years later and they are still going strong. Worth a look.


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## Acampbell128 (Sep 10, 2013)

BSFatonovich said:


> I am replying to an old thread, but hopefully can get some help. I want to update my system. While keeping the HU, I am looking to do an amp and two sets of two way components. The JBL's look nice, but if anyone has some better ideas, they are appreciated. My other question is in regard to a DSP. Anyone use this, and how did you like it?
> 
> Thanks.


The JBL MS62 components are highly regarded in the caraudio forums. The CDT are one the most affordable packaged 3-way setups, another highly regarded components is the Image Dynamics CTX65CS. DSP is not required but will allow for better sound. As far as getting the signal from the OEM HU there is a few different options. The best option would be using something like the Audison Bit series or the JBL MS-8. I used a discontinued option(sony XDP-MU110 About $70 on amazon) but it works great for what i paid. As DCBC stated he used a MTX ReQ, if you don't care about sound quality you can use a cheap LOC.


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## gunner1000 (Mar 26, 2014)

If you did blow you factory speakers, would it be awful to replace the speakers as they blow. Not taking into the account the difference in sound quality between the aftermarket and factory speakers


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## Bas Hamans (Dec 21, 2013)

Acampbell128 said:


> The JBL MS62 components are highly regarded in the caraudio forums. The CDT are one the most affordable packaged 3-way setups, another highly regarded components is the Image Dynamics CTX65CS. DSP is not required but will allow for better sound. As far as getting the signal from the OEM HU there is a few different options. The best option would be using something like the Audison Bit series or the JBL MS-8. I used a discontinued option(sony XDP-MU110 About $70 on amazon) but it works great for what i paid. As DCBC stated he used a MTX ReQ, if you don't care about sound quality you can use a cheap LOC.


Hi Acampbell, please please watch out with adding a DSP into your audio system because this messes-up your Carkit. Using a DSP is adding time-delay to speakers in order to create a front sound-stage right. The funny thing is most EOM carkits have a echo cancellation algorithm which is completely messed-up when you add time delay. The result is people will complain hearing you double when they call you. For several car audio manufactorors such as Rockford and JBL I introduced DSP's all over the world, training distributors and car audio specialists and this is a common challenge all over the world. 
If you have don't have a Carkit it doesn't matter......

When you do have a Carkit please do purchase a DSP where you can switch-off time delay (preset) with one press on a button before you take the call. For the MS-8 we had to come out with an update to reprogram the wireless remote to add a button to switch off all processing. In the beginning when I received many complaints from the German market, especially VW, about this problem.

What I don't know is if these VW heads have a volume depended Equalisation. Is there someone on this forum who actually measured the output of the RNS-510/RCD-510? I have the strong impression these outputs are not equalized.
I will measure the outputs of my RCD-510 and post the measurements on this forum. Measuring is knowledge:wave:


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## gunner1000 (Mar 26, 2014)

Should, I be looking at an amp that produces 75x4 rms at 4 ohms or 2 ohms? Sorry for the dumb question


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