# Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hello Everyone:
Just a short report to bring you up to date on day one of the first German Phaeton Owner get-together, which began today in Dresden:
We all made our rendez-vous at a service station about 10 miles outside of Dresden. At first I could not figure out why we were meeting here – until I saw the police cars and police motorcycles. After everyone arrived – about 40 people, with about 20 Phaetons – the Dresden Police escorted us, as a group, in a convoy along the autobahn and through the streets of Dresden to the Transparent Factory. 
*Initial rendez-vouz at the service station – noon hour*








*Everyone was taking photos*








It is interesting to note that all of the Phaetons were SWB models, no-one brought a long wheelbase car such as we have in North America. Also, 16 of the 20 cars were diesels, 2 were 3.2 litre 6 cylinder engines, and 2 were V8 engines. No-one brought a W12.
*The lineup grows longer…*








After an entertaining and quite spirited ride – without any traffic lights or speed limits to worry about – we all arrived at the Transparent Factory. Parking for everyone was organized in the main piazza, excepting a guy from Canada who showed up on a motorcycle – the moto was stuffed behind the circular storage tower.
*Just like in North America, black and silver colours seem to be the most popular.*








*The car in the foreground is Marais green.*








*The factory borders on the Dresden Botanical Garden.*








*There’s always time to squeeze in a quick suspension tweak…*
_What’s the difference between the legal systems in North America and Europe? In Europe, the reception staff loaned us the measuring tape._








*I didn’t know you could put Oymant wheels on a W12.*
_This car rolled out of the delivery center while we were in the piazza._








*I also didn’t know you could have gradation buttons without adaptive cruise control.*
_Stay tuned for details about this retrofit, to come later in the week_








*At about 5:30, everyone gathered in the customer reception room for Champagne…*








*…and a welcome from our hosts. *
_Mr. Stefan Schulte, Manager of Manufacturing and Marketing, gave a short welcome speech_








*Then the tour of the factory began.*
_Here, we are in the atelier, where customers come to choose colours and options._








*We progressed to the assembly area...*








*…where the usual rule about ‘no photographs’ was temporarily suspended.*








*PhaetonChix was 100% correct in Auburn Hills…*
_…when she told us that when you hook up external power to your Phaeton when it is being serviced at the dealership, it must be connected to the Vehicle Power Supply Battery terminals, not simply to the ‘boost starting’ terminals under the hood at the front._








*Obviously, the folks in Dresden have been reading the Vortex forum*
_and have taken Joe’s advice about painting the rocker panels on Silver Phaetons._








*I think I now understand why VW of A does not allow us to have start buttons.*
_Note the lights on the instrument cluster – this car is ‘live’. Fortunately, this 3½ year old could not reach the brake pedal at the same time._








*At the end of the tour, we drifted upstairs for a light snack…*

















*…which lasted until about 11:00 that evening, when the bus took us all back to the hotel.*








Well, that was it for the first day – more to come tomorrow.
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

The silver Phaeton with the painted rocker panels and Helios wheels looks sweet. 
You people are having way too much fun!
























_Modified by Paldi at 7:56 PM 5-20-2005_


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

WOW!


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

Looks like they served 3 different wines...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (vwguild)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwguild* »_Looks like they served 3 different wines...

Correct, if you don't include the Champagne. It didn't mean much to me, I don't drink alcohol, but the rest of the gang seemed to be enjoying it, and VW laid on a bus to pick everyone up at the hotel, and then take them back again after dinner.
Michael
*Refreshments*


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PhaetonChix)*

Fabulous photos man. I still wish they would strengthen and offer the Helios wheel for the W12. The Omanyt looks good too. If they do this next year, I'm going!!!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (dcowan699)*

Do keep in mind it is 100% in the German language.
Michael


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

It seems like they spared no expense...but, more importantly...what is the temperature there regarding the PHAETON? Happy, enthusuastic owners like here? Did they discuss the future? What is the atmosphere? Why are they buying PHAETON v. the others?
BTW...in California, enjoying great wine is not considered drinking alcohol...it is just living...


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## phaetonfanatic (Apr 30, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

fantastisch!!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (vwguild)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwguild* »_... more importantly, what is the temperature there regarding the PHAETON? Happy, enthusiastic owners like here? Did they discuss the future? What is the atmosphere? Why are they buying PHAETON v. the others? 

Hi Peter:
Very good questions. The formal discussions about technical matters, what the owners want to have changed, owner squawks, stuff like that will take place tomorrow morning (day 3). Tomorrow afternoon is track day at the Eurospeedway.
Here is what I have observed so far: The Phaeton owners here in Germany are much younger than our same group in North America. This get-together was put together the same way as ours - by the German language Phaeton forum - so the bias towards Internet users should be the same in both groups, therefore, we can discount that. What is very remarkable is that the average age of owners is 'high thirties' - have a look at the number of small children, car seats, strollers, etc. in the pictures. One of the most common requests is for pop-up child seats (kinder-seats), like the Golf and Jetta has, and also some kind of larger play table for kids that can be attached to the middle armrest in the rear seat. The range of ages of owners who came to the GTG seems to be about 25 at the low end, to 70 at the high end, with the bulk being between 30 and 37.
Also, the German owners tend to drive their cars more than we do. I have seen lots of cars with 50 or 70 thousand kilometers on them (about 30 to 50 thousand miles). This are not 'older' cars, either.
I sat beside Mr. Stefan Schulte, the General Manager of the Transparent Factory, during dinner last night. He told me that the Phaeton has the lowest average age of ownership in its class - significantly below the age of BMW 7 and Mercedes S buyers. The younger German buyers tends to look at Mercedes as "your father's Buick", and would not be seen dead in one. Also - no-one, repeat, no-one has bought a long wheelbase car. I asked a few people, and their comment was 'what would I want that for - I am not in the hire-car business'. Everyone has a SWB, and 80% of the buyers choose diesels.
Phaeton sales continue to climb here in Germany - last month, Mercedes only sold 50 (fifty) more S class cars than VW sold Phaetons. The future is looking very good. I can see why the folks here are not very concerned about the USA market. VW is selling nicely equipped Passats here in Europe for more money than Phaeton VW's list for in the USA. Sure, they would like to goose sales in the USA up, but right now, there's much riper fruit to pick on other trees, for example, Europe and Asia.
The German owners seem to have the some of the same concerns we do - nav system is slow, doesn't display street names, no ambient footwell lighting, yada yada. A few owners have had problems with after-sales service from less than enthusiastic dealers, but VW handles things much better here - they just send someone from the factory out to the person's home with a loaner, and pick up the owner's car, and bring it back to Dresden to get everything done. There has never been a single buy-back in Germany, and the German owners were amazed when I told them some of the service stories that we have heard here in the forum.
There is no 'free service' on Phaetons here - you pay for your first oil change, and everything after that. The warranty is, I think, 2 years. No-one is concerned about cost of service, or the short warranty. The 6 cylinder TDI Phaeton is selling like hotcakes, and it is a very economical car to run - about the same mileage as a Jetta with a 1.8T engine. It will easily hit well over 200 km/h. I am going to borrow one for track day tomorrow, and see what it is like.
Anyway - hope that answers your questions, I should have better information after the tech sessions and the general 'town hall' meetings tomorrow morning, out at the track.
In the meantime, here's a copy of today's program - not very car related, we did a visit to a porcelain factory, where they turn mud into money. The VW executives figured they were in the wrong business after they saw the prices being charged for the porcelain - up to USD $500 for a single cup and saucer. There were some 'seconds' on sale, for about $300 each. I passed - think I'll stick with paper cups and plates for the time being.
Michael
*Day 2 of 3 Agenda*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

Well, here are a few pictures of our tour of the porcelain factory. Dull as dishwater. But, it is the local 'product of pride', has been made here for over 500 years, so I guess we had to make the pilgrimage.
*Dresden Porcelain Factory Tour*
_NB: The Golf has the same 3.2 engine as a Phaeton, as well as a DSG (direct shift gearbox transmission). It's no slouch. Belongs to one of the young people who work at the Transparent Factory._








*How to turn river mud into big money*


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## viscount (Jan 2, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

This is excellent Michael, thanks for posting everything! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Its great to get an idea of what's happening on the other side of the "pond" . It looks like it was a first class organized event which really speaks highly for VW and owners. Thanks for being our ambassador!!








Those oymant wheels look great btw.
Ed.


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

Well...the most important news regards local sales...This is HUGE, and a major turnaround from what I was hearing in 2002 from Dealers. I hosted a group of German Dealers at that time and they sounded like some of the US Dealers we love to hate...This is wrong, that is bad...made me furious...
But if things are going well in Germany; it will come across the pond...The US demographic is filled with folks that travel...success there means eventual success here.
Curious about the age spread though...I would have though that the 30+ folks would find the B6 Passat pretty appealing, rather than the PHAETON, although the PHAETON has been available much longer.
I still fail to understand this obsession with the street names in the NAV, but for the past 40 years the only NAV system I ever needed was the one that folds and goes in the Glove Box...Another odd thing is the ambient footwell lighting...I have it, front and back, why no one else? I guess they don't know about the Courtesy light switch by the moonroof dial.
Very glad to hear that the factory is stepping up re: service...Warranty coverage in Europe has always been minimal...That 24 months is twice the national average...Because the North American economies are primarily based upon Service Industires we have become really jaded, I guess. we are no longer impressed and pleased by great service, now we expect nothinng less...
It is very funny that you should mention the local porcelain factory...5 years ago a small group of us went to VW of Mexico, in Puebla...Same local artisanal feel...we spent a fortune on stuff, which was to be made and shipped up to our homes or offices here in California...most of us ended up with nothing...
Sad to say for them, the tours ended and so did the business the visiting VW folks provided... Kind of sad for us too, for what we had ordered was really beautiful.
Sounds like you are having a great time...Enjoy!!! Oh! that Papillon Silver is in my next order...just might keep it for myself..Sun Beige & Chestnut...










_Modified by vwguild at 9:15 PM 5-21-2005_


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (vwguild)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwguild* »_
...Another odd thing is the ambient footwell lighting...I have it, front and back, why no one else? I guess they don't know about the Courtesy light switch by the moonroof dial.
_Modified by vwguild at 9:15 PM 5-21-2005_

I'm glad you mentioned that Peter as I too have the ambient lighting. I've never made a post in that thread because I didn't understand what the problem was. Now that you've mentioned it, maybe it is just a switch that's been turned off.


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (dcowan699)*

David, I guess we should also mention the "Courtesy Light" switch in the back seat by the "Reading Lamp" switch...this activates the ambient lighting for the rear when the door is opened...


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## carrerarsr (Jan 5, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (vwguild)*

Michael, it was nice meeting you in dresden. We did have a lot of Fun and the information we got was first hand und very promissing. The formal discussion was that there will be some changes in the existing car and the next Generation will be an even better Best car of the world. By the way I drove the nice blue W 12 individual home (500 km) it was a great drive but I prefer my V 10. You guys actually do not belive what we saw, did and hear.
Regards
Frank


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (carrerarsr)*

*Day 3 Report*
Well, day three of the get-together started pretty early – we left Dresden at 08:00, in time to be at the EuroSpeedway track by 09:00. When we arrived, we were quite surprised to find another 12 new Phaetons, all with Wolfsburg (WOB) licence plates. These were the cars that we would be using for the track training.
Coffee was served, and the safety briefing held. After this, we split up into two groups of six drivers each. The track training was then held in two different groups.
The day started out with light rain, which was actually very desirable, because it made the track somewhat slippery. This made it quite easy to demonstrate the difference between running through the serpentine with and without the ESP (Electronic Stability Control) turned on. With ESP turned on, it was impossible to fishtail or slide the car. The ESP would always kick in at the last minute, applying braking to the appropriate wheel, redistributing the power to different wheels, or sometimes even reducing engine power if needed. With ESP turned off, it was possible to provoke some oversteer or understeer, depending on the nature of the mistake made.
By noon hour, the track had dried up, and the sound of squealing rubber was with us for the rest of the day.
A discussion forum was held concurrent with the track activities, since there were not enough cars for everyone to be on the track at the same time. For me, it was interesting to listen to the owner requests. Many were the same as what were made at the Auburn Hills GTG – requests for improvement in the phone system, the navigation system, and the interior (cabin) lighting. But, some requests were quite different, such as the request for built in child booster seats (kinder-seats), because older children can not easily see over the rear door windowsills if they are in the back seat.
The track day finished up at about 3:00 PM, with a round of short speeches from the organizers, and much applause for the volunteer organizers and for all the Volkswagen employees who put so much effort into making this a very successful event.
Below are some photos to give you an idea of how the day went. I have some documents I will scan and post later, I do not have a scanner with me.
Michael
*Early morning coffee (cappuccino, to be exact) to get things started*








*The poster illustrating what the day’s activities would be*








*A safety briefing for all participants, first thing in the morning*








*Our location – EuroSpeedway, a F1 track between Dresden and Berlin*








*A few million dollars worth of VW’s in the parking lot*
_(These are the cars that belong to the participants)_








*The VW Company cars we would be driving on the track*








*The ‘Town Hall’ discussion meeting and forum*








*Everyone had a chance to contribute their suggestions and criticisms*
_If you want good advice about designing a child booster seat, then it makes sense to listen to the person who will use it._








*Could you imagine VW of America hosting an event under a sign like this?*








*One of the drivers testing the limits of the ESP system*
_I'm not very good at taking track photos - the cars move too fast._








*The debrief at the end of the day.*


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## Mirage11 (Mar 25, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

Daimn it must be really fun. How I wish I could go during my holidays. My dad is in Germany now (though not too sure about the specific location) and although he tried to make time for a Dresden visit, time constraints proved otherwise. 
And, great pictures.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (Mirage11)*

Dresden is a wonderful city, arguably the most beautiful city in Germany. It is very much like Vienna - was ruled by the same monarchs for many years.
The Transparent Factory is open for visitors 7 days a week, so, anytime you can make it to Dresden is just fine. I suggest you allow 3 or 4 days for a first-time visit. So far as hotels go, I highly recommend the Hilton, not only for its excellent location right in the heart of the city, just a few steps to everything you want to see, but also because it is an excellent hotel in every respect.
Michael


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael,
Now that we've seen how VW organized the GTG in Germany I (we) hope that next years event in AH will be similar.
Waterford race track in not that far away and we could have a similar track day which would go a long way in helping us explore and understand the limits of the Phaeton.
Of course, VW will have to ship over all those company cars for us to use.















Thank you for the great information. Almost makes me wish I had studied my German in High School.


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## MrVette (May 23, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
it's good to see your here again after we've met on the Autobahn! 
It was indeed one GREAT GTG. We're planning for a second one in 2006 which might take place in Düsseldorf in an extremely nice hotel. We'll see and will let you all know. 
As to the long wheelbase - it is not being bought by "normal" people because it is EXTREMELY expensive! You pay an extra of about 6000 Euro just to have 11.5cm more. Plus, problems with parking space are guaranteed. 
The V6 3.0 Liter TDI runs - inofficially - almost 250km/h (155mph). It's a rocket. What I drove for the first time was the ship's diesel - the awesome 5-Liter-V10-Diesel with 313hp and 750NM. This car DESTROYS the street it's running on - just great. Acceleration of the W12 is slightly better, but on the first meters it makes you faint.
Phaeton Rules!
Daniel in Düsseldorf/Germany


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (MrVette)*

Hi Daniel:
It was great to meet you also, as well as all the other German Phaeton owners. I agree, it was a superb GTG.
Rick: I think we should consider holding the next North American Phaeton owner GTG in *Dresden*. Seriously, no kidding. If we start our planning this fall, we could probably arrange some kind of group package deal that would include 2 round trip air tickets and good hotel accommodations for 4 or 5 days for, perhaps, $3K per _couple_. That's not an unacceptable expense for a holiday. We have already seen that it is not really necessary to bring your own Phaeton, VW has lots of them. Plus, Dresden is a great city for walking around in - heck, you can walk from the heart of the city to the Transparent Factory in 15 or 20 minutes. Just some food for thought.
Michael


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I think we should consider holding the next North American Phaeton owner GTG in *Dresden*.

Sign me up!


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_Sign me up!

I'm game. I have enough Hilton Honors points from the Phaeton Touareg Luxury Ambassador program to stay for FREE!
Chris offered to be my sherpa too http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif That means I can bring my track gear, helmets take up too much valuable luggage space.
I've got one year to learn conversational automotive German.
~PC


_Modified by PhaetonChix at 12:18 PM 5-23-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PhaetonChix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhaetonChix* »_I have enough Hilton Honors points from the Phaeton Touareg Luxury Ambassador program to stay for FREE!

I smiled when I read that - I'm currently in the Dresden Hilton, where I always stay - always free - using Hhonors points. On top of a free room, because I am Diamond status in the Hhonors program, they give me a suite, free breakfast, and free indoor motorcycle parking as well...
Michael


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I'm in.








Phaeton, at 150 MPH on the autobahn. Yea!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
This would be a great opportunity for VW to introduce perspective Phaeton owners to the Phaeton and other owners.
Do you know where I can lease a motorcycle while in Germany?








However, I think a NA GTG would still be in order.
Maybe we go to the NA GTG for a couple of days and then leave from AH to go to Germany.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

I'm just gonna have to stop reading this thread !! The jealousy is eating me up.


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## phaetonfanatic (Apr 30, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
I think we should consider holding the next North American Phaeton owner GTG in *Dresden*. 
Michael

Outstanding idea! 
Michael S.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (phaetonfanatic)*

*Possible error correction*
Post content deleted by Michael (original author) - was a case of mistaken identity.
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 7:00 PM 5-24-2005_


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## fly4food (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_ I think we should consider holding the next North American Phaeton owner GTG in *Dresden*. 
Michael

I would make every effort to attend, as long as it is not in German!


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

I, too, would be very interested in attending a Dresden GTG for North American Phaeton owners (in English, please). Assuming United Airlines stays in business, I've still got 800,000+ frequent flyer miles to burn.
I'll be flying back to Germany in November (just there last month), but can probably justify a sales trip to Europe about anytime. On previous business trips I've been to the BMW Munich museum (terribly out-of-date), and the beautiful Audi all-glass museum in Ingolstadt. I've also visited the funky VW Beetle museum in Wolfsburg -- some of the customized Beetles there are amazing.
Now if we could just figure out how to drive a Phaeton on the Autobahn, that would be really nice. Last year I had to settle for driving an Audi A4 from Munich to Zurich.
- Dave


_Modified by uberanalyst at 9:12 PM 5-23-2005_


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## carrerarsr (Jan 5, 2005)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

Michael:
It was not the same car.
The car with the 6 cyl engine and the W12 exhaust had a licences plate MA - XX xxxx the one you took the photo was EE-XX xxx.
I think it is a W 12 with these nice rims.
Frank


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## peter.nasshan (May 24, 2005)

*Hello from Germany*

Hello Phaeton-Freaks,
I want to intruduce myself to this board. My name is Peter and I'm the owner of the V6 with the W12 exhaust.
I was also at the GTG and it was great.
Michael, I just want to say thanks for my "Beep", I'm very happy with it.
Michael, you are a crazy and sympatic guy like I didn't met many of them in my life!
Don't forget to send me the pictures you made for the large collection...
Best Regards from Mannheim, Germany
Peter


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Hello from Germany (peter.nasshan)*

Hi Peter, Frank:
Thanks ever so much for dropping by and providing that clarification. That means it looks like Oymants are approved for the W12, which is good news. Peter, I will send you the CD with the photos, for sure.
I have deleted the post I made about the safety warning, because it is no longer needed.
Michael


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: Hello from Germany (PanEuropean)*

This was an excellent post.... thank you very much.
I sure wish VWoA would do something like this here for VW owners of all model ranges.... especially an off-road course set up for TOUAREG owners!!!


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## sirAQUAMAN64 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: Hello from Germany (PanEuropean)*

Whether V6 or W12, those Omanyt wheels look super. As do the V6 TDI/US-spec V8 rims (multi-spoke flat machine finished ones similar to the A8L). The Helios wheels are nice as well. Some of the others aren't as much to my liking, but choice is always good








Looks like the GTG in Dresden turned out to be a phenomenal experience, and an eye opening one to highlight the differences in buyer demographics and content demand between North American customers and those outside. 
As always, great coverage Michael.
Enjoy!


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## Deflated_97 (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: Hello from Germany (sirAQUAMAN64)*

I dont own a Phaeton (although I will in the future), but Volkswagen does know how to treat its respected customers.


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## StattlichPassat (Feb 12, 2001)

*Re: Hello from Germany (PanEuropean)*

Brilliant, Michael! Combine a GTG like that with an Oktoberfest and you have the makings of my dream vacation. That looks absolutely superb! The Phaeton is an incredible vehicle and I'll own one some day. Until then, the 18" Challenge wheels from a W12 will have to suffice on my black Passat Turbo.


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## sieben (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: Hello from Germany (sirAQUAMAN64)*

wonderful post and wonderful event
now it's time to get VWoA execs and dealership owners/managers to see this
just one question:
'VW is selling nicely equipped Passats here in Europe for more money than Phaeton VW's list for in the USA. "
is that for real? Passats in Europe more expensive than Phaetons in the US?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Hello from Germany (silver30v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silver30v* »_Is that for real? Passats in Europe more expensive than Phaetons in the US?

Yes, it is 'for real'. A fully loaded Passat in Switzerland costs more than a base Phaeton V8 in America.
Michael


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## chucchinchilla (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: Hello from Germany (PanEuropean)*

My class is planning a trip from Weimar to Dresden in not this weekend but the following..is the Phaeton factory open for tours on Saturday? I know German factories are closed on the weekends but it would be nice to see this sehr modern facility.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Hello from Germany (chucchinchilla)*

Yes, the Transparent Factory is open for tours 7 days a week. It is best to phone ahead if you are a 'group'. There will be no difficulty arranging for an English language tour. Allow about 2 to 3 hours to visit the site - certainly no less than 2. 
We have a post here on the forum that provides a 'virtual tour' - just click on this link: A photo tour of the Transparent Factory in Dresden.
Michael


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hello Everyone:
*Initial rendez-vouz at the service station – noon hour*










Title of this photo is incorrect. It should be: *Michael is stopped by the police in Germany while riding his motorcycle. Fortunately for him, he has his squad of lawyers and character witnesses with him who bail him out.* 


_Modified by PanEuropean at 6:50 AM 5-31-2008_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (spockcat)*

Jim, I can tell you are 'through and through' an American.







There are no speed limits on most of the expressway network in Germany (except when topography requires a limit), and there are very few lawyers in the world, outside of the USA.
We did an informal occupation poll at the GTG - out of 20 owners, no lawyers.
Michael


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

Never accused you of speeding.








I've driven many kms there. But the German Autobahn is becoming more and more speed restricted all the time.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_But the German Autobahn is becoming more and more speed restricted all the time. 

Not sure I agree with you. If you qualify your comment based on 'miles of autobahn' that is speed restricted, yes, your comment is correct, because there are more miles with speed restrictions than there were before. But, if you measure it as 'percentage of autobahn that is speed restricted', and you do not count the sections with dynamic speed controls (which are generally unrestricted when the weather is good, and traffic density is not a problem), then your comment is not correct.
Anyway - getting back to the thread topic, here is the official group photo that VW took. They gave everyone who attended an 8 by 10 print of it.
*The Gang - First Phaeton GTG in Germany*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

VW did a little write-up about the first German Phaeton Owner get-together in the 2005 Summer-Fall issue (#4) of _skript manufactura_ magazine, which is the German language Phaeton magazine. I've posted some other articles from this issue in other places around the forum - including a picture of the new W12 engine intake cover redesign, which can be found here: Question about W12.
Below is a scan of the two page writeup about the GTG.
I recall that VW of A was thinking about doing a write-up about our Spring 2005 Auburn Hills GTG in an upcoming issue of 'Driver' magazine, which is the North American VW magazine - has anyone seen this yet?
Michael
*from skript manufactura Summer-Fall 2005*


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

What amazes me is how such young people can afford a $170K vehicle. I keep seeing a much younger crowd in those pictures than our GTGs. Looks like some are only in their early 30s with small children. 
Do you recall what occupations some of these folks have? 
*HINT*: My sons may want to do these jobs!!


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (dcowan699)*

Most of them are probably dentists! Remember what Michael was saying about paying for a root canal in CH







All those over here in NA who complain take note and be happy!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_What amazes me is how such young people can afford a $170K vehicle. I keep seeing a much younger crowd in those pictures than our GTGs. Looks like some are only in their early 30s with small children. 

Ah, a very wise and sharp observation. In fact, the 'hot topic' at the owner discussion meeting (with the VW engineers) was that you can't get the Phaeton with built-in child booster seats in the rear, like a Golf or Jetta.
Most of the folks who came to the GTG - probably about 70% - owned the SWB V6 TDI Phaeton. This vehicle is not available in North America. The SWB V6 TDI is the super-hot seller in Europe, and the reason why VW had to add a second (evening) shift at the Transparent Factory to keep up with demand. It is a very economical car to run - about the same fuel consumption, in dollar terms, as a gasoline powered Passat - and it is quite inexpensive to buy. It's about 70% of the cost of a LWB V8 Phaeton. So, do the math on that one - multiply the North American price of a V8 by 0.7, and you'll see that suddenly, you've opened the market up to a whole new group of people that were not being reached before.
The Phaeton is a fresh, new, modern car - with none of the 'your father's Buick' association that a large BMW has, or the 'taxicab' or 'wealthy Turkish immigrant who wants the neighbors to know' image that the S class Mercedes has. In Europe, the Phaeton - across all models - appeals to a much younger demographic than a similar size BMW or Mercedes product.
Michael


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Most of the folks who came to the GTG - probably about 70% - owned the SWB V6 TDI Phaeton. This vehicle is not available in North America. The SWB V6 TDI is the super-hot seller in Europe, and the reason why VW had to add a second (evening) shift at the Transparent Factory to keep up with demand. It is a very economical car to run - about the same fuel consumption, in dollar terms, as a gasoline powered Passat - and it is quite inexpensive to buy. It's about 70% of the cost of a LWB V8 Phaeton. So, do the math on that one - multiply the North American price of a V8 by 0.7, and you'll see that suddenly, you've opened the market up to a whole new group of people that were not being reached before.
The Phaeton is a fresh, new, modern car - with none of the 'your father's Buick' association that a large BMW has, or the 'taxicab' or 'wealthy Turkish immigrant who wants the neighbors to know' image that the S class Mercedes has. In Europe, the Phaeton - across all models - appeals to a much younger demographic than a similar size BMW or Mercedes product.
Michael

Well, wouldn't it be nice if the SWB V6 TDI Phaeton was brought into the NAR market when the new diesel (low sulfur) fuel regulations go into effect in 2006 (I believe that is the correct year)? If in fact they could keep the price down, it would be a much smaller price step up from the Passat. And wasn't that just what VW wanted the Phaeton for? To keep the VW owners in "the fold" and not move to Merc and BMW when they moved up-market? 
Let's see, 70% of 66K is about 46K. Hmm, nice alternative to the Touareg.
BTW, does anyone know about the performance of the diesel Phaeton? Any numbers? Is it AWD? I imagine the low-end torque is impressive.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (car_guy)*

It is AWD - all Phaetons are now - and from what all the owners said, it is more than zippy enough. The Touareg forum guys got hold of a V6 powered Touareg (same engine), and wrote a review about it here: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI.
Michael


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## njwiseguy (Jan 7, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_I keep seeing a much younger crowd in those pictures than our GTGs. Looks like some are only in their early 30s with small children. 


How about mid 30's with small children in the northeast.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (Gobuster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gobuster* »_Most of them are probably dentists! 

Bless their hearts. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Brutal job indeed.
Try being told you're hated 30 times a day while doing your thankless job and where getting paid is very tough and is a job in itself.... You wouldn't go back to work would you?
I even own a T-shirt that has the phrase: "I am a dentist and I HATE you too! " printed on the back


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_Bless their hearts.

ROFLMFAO!!!


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (chrisj428)*

It ain't funny


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_Try being told you're hated 30 times a day while doing your thankless job...

I can't quite comprehend this. When I had my root canal done a few weeks ago (just before I left for Africa), I fell asleep while the endodontist was doing his thing - and this was just with the usual local anesthetic, nothing else. The trick to being able to sleep through dental work is to not give back that lead blanket thing after the first X-ray is taken. If you keep it, you stay nice and warm, and it's easy to fall asleep.
Something I think is just the greatest invention since sliced bread is the latex barrier (dental dam?) that is now becoming quite popular. This thing stops stuff from falling in your throat, thus contributing to a better sleep. My endodontist told me that he likes them as well, because it keeps the work area isolated, and makes it easier for him to get the job done.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (PanEuropean)*

Believe me Michael, you're normal about things like that. You'd be amazed at what the spoiled Americans will bit*h about in my field. I simply rubbed a piece of cotton across someones teeth yesterday (while under local anesthesia) and she said that hurt!!!





























Now you know why I love Phaeton conversation and motorcycles. You usually won't see a Phaeton or a motorcycle in front of a psychiatrist office.








Sorry about the diverging conversation.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming!


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (dcowan699)*

My dentist used a barrier in 1948. Nothing new. Except, hardly no one does it anymore, I suspect because it's too much trouble.


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## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (njwiseguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *njwiseguy* »_
How about mid 30's with small children in the northeast.









How about 36 TODAY with no children (at least that I know of) in the Southwest?


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (loganflatt)*

Happy Birthday, Logan!


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## njwiseguy (Jan 7, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (loganflatt)*


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 (loganflatt)*

Happy Birthday, Logan! You lucky Guy!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted - a nostalgic 'blast from the past' from the Summer of 2005.

Michael


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

PanEuropean said:


> Photos re-hosted - a nostalgic 'blast from the past' from the Summer of 2005.
> 
> Michael


Michael,

Is this an annual event?

Best,
Steven


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Expoman said:


> Michael,
> 
> Is this an annual event?
> 
> ...


It should be!

Stu


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> It should be!
> 
> Stu


I think a European GTG in Dresden would be very good - anyone else up for this?

Steven


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## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Expoman said:


> I think a European GTG in Dresden would be very good - anyone else up for this?
> 
> Steven


Of course! The whole Low Land participants are planning one.... Beginning 2013.

Regards,

Wouter


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

wouterjansen60 said:


> Of course! The whole Low Land participants are planning one.... Beginning 2013.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Wouter


Please keep us up to date with proposed schedules etc. If I can make it I WOULD LOVE TO DO THIS!!
Even if its just to meet some "virtual friends"

Stu


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## laser21 (Jan 25, 2012)

We should do this!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

The Germany-based owners organize one 'formal' get-together every year - such as this one - in co-operation with the staff at the Dresden assembly plant. Details of this GTG are normally posted in the German language Phaeton forum (Motor-Talk.de), and they welcome participants from all other countries.

Regards,

Michael


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