# Stealership changes brake pads AND rotors?!? Why?!?



## hotsoup (Jan 8, 2002)

Hi guys, 

A bud of mine lives in Calgary, Alberta. He's been told by a stealership and an independent shop that his 2003 Passat 2.8V6 4motion needs pads AND rotors. The car has less than 100k km. And it already had a set of new rotors and pads already around 50k km. 

I've never had to change any rotors on any of my cars - Honda, VW, Toyota, etc. So I suggest my friend should ask if there's any damage or uneven wear on the rotors. 

So my questions are: Are they specific road/weather conditions in Canada that require changing the brake pads AND rotors every time? Or it's a "common" practice in Canada but absolutely unnecessary?! Any possible 4motion-specific work? 

I personally live in Southern California. I have no idea how/what harsh winters do to our rides. If you could give me and my bud any information, that'd be much appreciated.


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## greyhare (Dec 24, 2003)

The factory rotors have very little excess on them. It is possible to reach the wear limit in 31k miles. 

The only way to be sure is to measure the rotor thickness to see if it is too close to the limit.


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

With aggressive brake pads and aggressive driving, it's possible to wear out brake pads and rotors in 20K miles. Especially on a newer car with ABS brakes. Used to be that the rear rotors and pads would outlast several sets of front rotors and pads. But with the introduction of ABS brakes, more braking is now done at the rear of the car, and the rear brakes often wear out at the same time as the fronts.


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## hotsoup (Jan 8, 2002)

greyhare, 
I got the wear limit from the Bentley book. My bud is going to take the wheel off and see if the rotor(s) is within spec. 

germancarnut51, 
Driving style definitely plays a major part in how long the pads and rotors will last. Heavy breaking will for sure kills the pads and possibly rotors a lot sooner than...my sissy driving style, which allows me to still have my original set of pads at 130K and counting.


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## greyhare (Dec 24, 2003)

Minimum thickness should be stamped on the edge of the rotor. The Bentley manual is a good source of information but, it assumes the rotors are OEM or OEM specification.


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## Anony00GT (Mar 6, 2002)

germancarnut51 said:


> With aggressive brake pads and aggressive driving, it's possible to wear out brake pads and rotors in 20K miles. Especially on a newer car with ABS brakes. Used to be that the rear rotors and pads would outlast several sets of front rotors and pads. But with the introduction of ABS brakes, more braking is now done at the rear of the car, and the rear brakes often wear out at the same time as the fronts.


 Yep, it's all about driving style. I've seen people burn through brake pads in


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

hotsoup said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> A bud of mine lives in Calgary, Alberta. He's been told by a stealership and an independent shop that his 2003 Passat 2.8V6 4motion needs pads AND rotors. The car has less than 100k km. And it already had a set of new rotors and pads already around 50k km.
> 
> ...


Its hard to believe that you have never replaced brake disks, but perhaps if you live in a warm/dry climate I could understand how less frequent it would need to be done.

There are many different reasons to answer your question, but the truth is that nobody actually knows the specific reason you are looking for. It is true that in a place like Canada where corrosion is a large concern from the road salt and high humidity enviornments (not all places in CA) that you will have to replace your disks/pads more frequent, not to mention if he did a brake job at 50km and now at 100km seems like he is right on schedule ???

Something that you'll need to consider that Canada and USA could potentially be considered different markets and get different pads, often times from Europe the N.America vehicles get different brake specs based on the customers and enviornment the market is in... and for example CA now is passing the low copper friction law which could potentially make CA have a different pad than the rest of N.America.... Since the actual friction material is very important in understanding pad life its necessary to understand wear behavor of the material it self let alone the driving habits of the customer.

In reference to disks, its true metalurgy of the material can potiently lead to quicker wear because of the hardness. Although its not easy to understand because the metalurgy really depends on the foundary and its not like every disk from an OEM comes from the same place because it doesn't. So saying that one company has this type of disk compared to another would be difficult to prove. That being said the industry does consider certain materials to add to iron to make them less noisy, this can make the disk soft relatively speaking...increasing wear.

Now to know why VW no longer has a MIN THICK service spec for their disks is a mystery and only VW knows why. It is certainly some market strategy...could be to save weight for each vehicle, poor service history records, or just the fact they don't want to spend money turning disks anymore because its easier to replace than it is to service.... I dont' know but all you need to know is on VW's you should expect to replace your disks everytime your pads are serviced.

in closing.... regarding the ABS comment, it is true that the actual function of ABS should not increase pad wear, especially because of the function of ABS it actually releases brake pressure (it actually doesn't 'pump' anything) so it uses brakes less..... I believe the comment was more towards the brake spec setup for ABS vs Non ABS vehicle, speaking that an ABS vehicle may be more inclinded to have a higher RR bias because oversteer skid is controlled by ABS, that mindset has some truth to it, although is not gospel, brake bias logic can change depending on the vehicle and sought usage by the customer. For instance, if you have a vehicle that can carry 5 ppl but 99% of the time you drive it by yourself, than probably you will increase RR brake wear becasue the OE intended the vehicle to have a heavier weight in the RR than you are using it for....and the brake system is built around the vehicles intended usage..... hope that makes sense.


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## FCP Euro (Sep 4, 2008)

Did you friend ask why they recommended to replace both rotor and pads at the same time? I think most dealerships or independent shops will recommend that versus doing a 'pad slap' unless a customer requests just pads. Especially at dealerships, simply b/c with everything new you would not have to worry about new pads seating incorrectly to used rotors. With 'pad slaps' you may run into vibration, shuttering, or squeaking while the new pads try to seat. Issues like that would cause a customer to be unhappy, a potential 'come-backs', and money lost to the shop maybe.

Best thing to do is actually inspect the rotors yourself. Take the wheel off, look at both the outside and inside surface of the rotor. That way you can make the call yourself to whether the rotors need to be replaced with the pads.


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