# Model Generation Differences (GP0, GP1, GP2, GP3)



## keetybwoy (Jun 12, 2011)

Hiya all,

I last posted a thread titled "newby" and was after info on the Phaeton. 

Pierre asked a good question about the different modifications / construction / developments through the years regarding the Phaeton. 

In search for the answer I tried google, nothing so suggested I'd head off to my local Vw dealership (Wayside, St Albans, Hertfordshire) to find the answers. Spoke to a salesman called Melvyn who was helpful but didn't have any of the answers I was after. I asked to speak to one of the technicians but he said this would be a waste of time. He suggested that I contacted head office and ask specifically for the luxury car department and they would have the answers I am looking for. 

Arrived home and gave them a call. I spoke with Brian who was very helpful but advised me that there had been so many changes through the years and listing all of them would be near impossible and time consuming. He did however say he would look up significant changes and contact me as this would take a couple of days. 

So hopefully within a few days I will have my hands on a definitive list of significant changes to the Phaeton throughout its history. 

If this would be of help to you let me know. I know it'll help me in finding the optimum Phaeton in the range, which is my goal. 

Keith.


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

If you want an "ideal" Phaeton you should either get a GP3 (the current one with the front that looks like a rapper's teeth) or a GP1 which had the revised headlamps (with the LED fairy lights) but the old navigation system.

Harry


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

Prince Ludwig said:


> If you want an "ideal" Phaeton you should either get a GP3 (the current one with the front that looks like a rapper's teeth) or a GP1 which had the revised headlamps (with the LED fairy lights) but the old navigation system.
> 
> Harry


Ahh, but with a DVD based system for the GP1, and not the really old CD base one that was in the GP0...

Johan


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## TSAY (Jun 28, 2008)

Prince Ludwig said:


> If you want an "ideal" Phaeton you should either get a GP3 (the current one with the front that looks like a rapper's teeth) or a GP1 which had the revised headlamps (with the LED fairy lights) but the old navigation system.
> 
> Harry


No, honestly, it grows on you. 

I'm learning to live with it.


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## keetybwoy (Jun 12, 2011)

What is GP0, GP1, GP3 etc also CD, DVD base. I'm not going to buy a new one for the fact I can't afford it and it is kinda ugly or to be kinder, not to my taste. 

I have seen some 2010 models with an upgraded nav screen. Is this what you mean?

A bit wet behind the ears with the Phaeton range which is why I'm trying to find out as much info as possible before a purchase. By the looks of it my budget will get me as far as a 2007 57 plate model 3.0 diesel. Is this a good year or is the 2006 model just as good and I could save some pennies. 

This is the kind of info I'm after. I done this kind of research when I bought my wife an X5 3.0 diesel. The best model was the 2005. It had the newer engine but was in a lower tax bracket than the 2006 model which was twice as much. 

I'm an engineer by trade therefore research and attention to detail is paramount. You know the old addage, measure twice and cut once!

I'll keep you abreast of the info from VW. 

Keith


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

keetybwoy said:


> What is GP0, GP1, GP3 etc also CD, DVD base. I'm not going to buy a new one for the fact I can't afford it and it is kinda ugly or to be kinder, not to my taste.
> 
> I have seen some 2010 models with an upgraded nav screen. Is this what you mean?
> 
> ...


Hi,

GP0 is the car that was sold from launch until late 2007 (model year 2008) it had the original CD based satnav and the 225PS/222bhp TDI engine

GP1 was the first face lift, it was introduced to the market in 2007 and was on sale until late 2008 new headlights became with proper bi-xenons and chrome trim on the from of the car, rear light changed from red to cherry red. This version had the same interior, but with DVD based sat nav. It also came with the 234PS/230bhp TDI engine

GP2 was introduced late 2008 and is the same as a GP1 from the outside, but it had new instrument binnacle and and touch screen satnav. This car got the 240PS TDI engine 

GP3 is the car latest facelift that was launched early 2011 in the UK (announced to the world in autumn 2010), some new body panels on the exterior and a new steering wheel on the inside, otherwise much the same as the GP2.

The 'best' version in my view is the GP1, it is an improved version of the GP0, true to the old values of the car but with a better satnav and engine. 

The GP2 is one I personally would avoid, it is littered with software issues, and the GP3 is the GP2 but finished. The GP2 and GP3 are not a true to the original design specification as the GP0 and GP1 is.

The GP0 is still very good, but it has its idiosyncrasies, especially the satnav is now a bit old, and the engine (TDI) could be more frugal.


Hope that helps

Johan


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## keetybwoy (Jun 12, 2011)

Johan,

You are an absolute star mate! That's the kind of info I'm after. 

There seems to be more years of the gpo but the 1,2&3's look like quite close in years and may lap over eachother. With the product codes from Pierre I can avoid the ones made a year or so before registration as described earlier. 

I'm chasing Vw with the info but no results yet. When they come I'll post them or even start a new one so it's easier for newbies to find rather than trolling through this thread. What do you think?

Thanks again Johan, Pierre and everyone who's helping me on my quest, you're all very helpful and friendly. 

Keith


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

Realist42 said:


> The GP2 is one I personally would avoid, it is littered with software issues, and the GP3 is the GP2 but finished. The GP2 and GP3 are not a true to the original design specification as the GP0 and GP1 is.
> 
> Johan



Johan,

This is very interesting. Would you elaborate on why you think the GP2 and GP3 are not true to the original design specs. 

Thanks

Damon


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## AudianerA6 (Sep 19, 2007)

For example, the famous, electric and automatic front seat belts from the GP0 have been removed in favour of a less expansive manual belt system. This decision has been highly criticized in Germany by the Phaeton owners.

The new touch screen ZAB, used in the GP2 and GP3 needs much longer to boot, then the original old school ZAB. For example, the Navi is available from the get to go in 2 or 3 sec, while it needs a considerable loading time before you can use the Navi in a GP3.

The exterior manufacturing quality has suffered slightly in the GP3. To be more precise, the front cut lines.

Some small details here and there are of cheaper quality.

Improvements:

The ADR has evolved to ACC and is now able to stop the car to zero km/h.

The more powerful, more efficient V6 FSI have been introduced to the Phaeton GP2/GP3.

The V6 TDI is even more efficient in the GP3.

Some more improvements: Euro 5 Norm for all GP2 and GP3 models! as well as many parts that usually failed on our GP0 have been improved, for example the new Phaetons all use the plastic windshield wiper blade engine frame. They usually will fail in EVERY GP0 sooner or later.

New steering wheel design and new rims, a new 20' original rim is now available from Volkswagen for the GP3 only. By the way, the 20' rim is only compatible with the GP3, because they had to change some parts from the suspension.

Less exclusive colors and leather range for GP2 and even less for GP3. No more Heliochrome colors anymore. 

On the downside, VW missed the opportunity to fit the new GP3 with new and exclusive driving aids. The new Passat (EU version only) has much more new, high end electronics inside, like some real 'magic' driving aid stuff.

Rumors, that the GP2 is suffering from electronic gremlins is new to me... ..., actually 'every' Phaeton is suffering from electronic problems. The core hasn't changed so expect kessy trouble, PDK failures and so on from a GP2 as well.


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## keetybwoy (Jun 12, 2011)

Hiya guys,

I've found a 3.0d on ebay at £16,495 and looks pretty good. I've asked for the VIN number so I can check the year of manufacture rather than registration. It's a 2007, 07 plate. Would this be a GP1?

If you wish to take a look it's item number 370511655766

I still haven't heard from Brian at VW head office but promised a reply soon.

Am I right in thinking I could give the VIN number to VW and they'd be able to verify the date of manufacture, and I suppose whether it's the GP0 or GP1.

Cheers

Keith


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

AudianerA6 said:


> For example, the famous, electric and automatic front seat belts from the GP0 have been removed in favour of a less expansive manual belt system. This decision has been highly criticized in Germany by the Phaeton owners.
> 
> The new touch screen ZAB, used in the GP2 and GP3 needs much longer to boot, then the original old school ZAB. For example, the Navi is available from the get to go in 2 or 3 sec, while it needs a considerable loading time before you can use the Navi in a GP3.
> 
> ...



I think most things have been said by AudianerA6 about the differences, what is very apparent with the GP2 is that the word 'that will do' crept in to the cars design, and that is just not something that would ever have been accepted for the GP0/GP1, it had to be right, we will make compromises, but we will aim to over-engineer it anyway. 

What should be noted is that the GP2 does not have electronics gremlins, the electronics are very solid, it is the software/firmware that run in the car that just did not see enough testing, it is rough and ready, i.e. that will do for now. I have listed this in other posts on the forum, and these were key contributors to me rejecting the GP2 car we had bought. 

The GP3, and I have only driven one for about 350 odd miles, took the GP2, fixed many of the issues, the software saw more testing, and in the the end, it is not a bad car, in fact it is a very good car, but it is not as special, not are pure. It has lost bits that I love, gained things that I love... It has more modern bits on there, that much is clear. 

I think it is telling, as mentioned by AudianerA6, that the new Passat is the the technology flagship product for VW, it is sad and odd... Also telling for the UK, is that on the Phaeton RHD, VW do not support Dynamic Light Assist or Speed Limit Sign recognition, as there is no RHD version of the hardware or the software (camera looks in the wrong place and car approach on the wrong side...)

I could go on, but I think that will do for now... Let us just hope that the new 'new' Phaeton is given a better chance.

Regards,

Johan


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

keetybwoy said:


> Hiya guys,
> 
> I've found a 3.0d on ebay at £16,495 and looks pretty good. I've asked for the VIN number so I can check the year of manufacture rather than registration. It's a 2007, 07 plate. Would this be a GP1?
> 
> ...



Hi Keith, 

The car is a GP0, it has the 'interim bluetooth' kit, which, incidentally is the last kit that can take its own SIM card...

The GP1 is easily identified by the chrome effect on the lower part of the front bumper...

This is a GP1:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Volkswagen-Ph...mobiles_UK&hash=item2c5d7d907e#ht_1127wt_1049

Regards,

Johan


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## keetybwoy (Jun 12, 2011)

Aghhhhh! Johan,

At last, something I can use to tell the GP0 and GP1 apart from eachother. 

The hunt continues!

Just want to add a big thanks to all of you for your invaluable help. You guys have been great in assisting me. 

Still chasing the guy at Vw who's meant to be getting the modification info I'm after. I think he's trying to avoid me. 

Cheers. 
Keith


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## keetybwoy (Jun 12, 2011)

Just another thing I wanted to ask and it's about the Hi-fi.

Are there different grades or are they all the same. eg, like BMW, premium sound system (pants), Loud speaker system (a bit better) or Logic 7 (very good quality, no distorsion at all) ??

I like my music and wouldn't let a poor quality stereo spoil my driving experience.

Thanks,
Keith


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

keetybwoy said:


> ... premium sound system (pants), Loud speaker system (a bit better) or Logic 7 (very good quality, no distorsion at all) ??
> I like my music and wouldn't let a poor quality stereo spoil my driving experience.


Don't know BMW premium, but the 12 channel DSP sound system in the Phaeton is pretty good. And the later Dynaudio system probably all 3 you mentioned. BTW, you can find a lot of stuff by looking into the FAQ, then look for "Sound".

What is a "Loud speaker"? Aren't all sound systems allowing you to turn up the volume, up to a level that all speakers become loud speakers? 

Willem


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## keetybwoy (Jun 12, 2011)

Hello Willem,

true to the fact that all stereos can be turned up but it's the quality......eg imagine driving a 1000cc car at 70mph and the same with the Phaeton. Both would be doing the same speed but I bet the 1000cc car would be reving its n*ts off and be deafening in a different way.

What separates stereos is the quality in which the delivery of sound is given, ie non distorsion, crackling and ear piecing high rambling pitches. I like my music and like everyone who hears their favourite song wants to turn it up and sing along without losing quality.....well maybe not sing, I wouldn't admit to it, but you get my drift.

I was just asking for comparative differences in the quality of hi-fi's in Phaetons.

I'll look it up in the FAQ section.

Thanks for your help Willem,

Keith


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## AudianerA6 (Sep 19, 2007)

The dynaudio is worse then the original DSP, even though, dynaudio has got some more 'watts', 1000 to be precise against 'just' 270 watts, and some higher quality speakers, but,
it's part of the VW strategy to reduce costs, so the expensive dsp digital processor has been removed in the new system. No more Sourrund Sound, Orchestra or Jazz effects.

De facto, you need to feed your dynaudio system with high def quality sound, to get high def, while the old system was able to improve low def sound significantly.

Systems are not interchangable, just in case someone wants to 'upgrade'.


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

AudianerA6 said:


> The dynaudio is worse then the original DSP, even though, dynaudio has got some more 'watts', 1000 to be precise against 'just' 270 watts, and some higher quality speakers, but,
> it's part of the VW strategy to reduce costs, so the expensive dsp digital processor has been removed in the new system. No more Sourrund Sound, Orchestra or Jazz effects.
> 
> De facto, you need to feed your dynaudio system with high def quality sound, to get high def, while the old system was able to improve low def sound significantly.
> ...


It's interesting how they value engineer the Phaeton (as well as other VW products) and try to give the consumers the perception that they are getting better products. Current versions of the Jetta and so called Paasats here in the US are disappointing. I suppose it's actually not so surprising. What makes me love my Phaeton is that Piech created it with little regards the the bean counters. It seemed like it was more of a design excecise. I'm sure all versions of the Phaeton are still great cars and may be great cars in the future but psychologically does this take away the soul of the Phaeton? I'm certainly less inclined to purchase a new Phaeton if it is controlled by the bean counters. Could the Bentleys exist without the Phaeton or the Phaeton exist without the Bentleys? Either way, they cannot be separated as their development costs are intertwined. With all the info about the different versions it makes me glad I have the original.

Damon


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## Passat2001_5lover (Dec 11, 2001)

*'04 Phaeton Premium Stereo Audio review*



keetybwoy said:


> Just another thing I wanted to ask and it's about the Hi-fi.
> 
> Are there different grades or are they all the same. eg, like BMW, premium sound system (pants), Loud speaker system (a bit better) or Logic 7 (very good quality, no distorsion at all) ??
> 
> ...


Here is an independent car magazine's take on the 2004 Phaeton upgraded stereo system:

_*L.A. Car*_ magazine, the expert in car performance and design, has selected the Volkswagen Phaeton's premium audio system as the best new factory-installed car sound system, beating out the Mark Levinson audio system available on top Lexus models and the new Acura-ELS DVD audio system.
L.A. Car describes it as "*the best-sounding factory audio system on the planet*," and says, "*the sounds from top to bottom are immaculately free from distortion and presented with staggering three-dimensionality*."

The audio system, available as an option on the Phaeton, delivers a 270 watt sound system with 12 speakers, 12 channel amplifier, sub woofer, Digital Sound Processing (DSP) with 7 adjustable simulated modes, dynamic sound compression, AM/FM, and glove box mounted 6-disc CD changer.

The audio systems were tested by Roy Nakano, Executive Editor of L.A. Car. L.A. Car [http://www.lacar.com], Southern California's premier online automotive magazine, features a wealth of information and analysis on car design, performance, laws, history and culture. Nakano has served as the Editor of LA Audio File for 10 years, and has also been serving as an equipment reviewer for the New York-based audiophile publication, The Sensible Sound, for the past 17 years.

---------
I think that as far as the NA Phaetons, the DSP was identical, year-to-year '04-'06.
Regards, Tim


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## Bigpopa (Jul 8, 2011)

Exactly the information I was looking for. I now know I have a GP1.

I just got bought my 2008 this week and went to the garage to try to have the language changed. As there are not so many of these in Luxembourg, I had to go to 3 VW garages with no luck.


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## keetybwoy (Jun 12, 2011)

Thanks again guys


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

AudianerA6 said:


> The dynaudio is worse then the original DSP, even though, dynaudio has got some more 'watts', 1000 to be precise against 'just' 270 watts, and some higher quality speakers, but,
> it's part of the VW strategy to reduce costs, so the expensive dsp digital processor has been removed in the new system. No more Sourrund Sound, Orchestra or Jazz effects.
> 
> De facto, you need to feed your dynaudio system with high def quality sound, to get high def, while the old system was able to improve low def sound significantly.
> ...


 Hi, 

Again I find myself agreeing, but with some provisos. Having tried all the systems, the original 10/8 and the 12/12 (with the DSP), the current standard and the Dynaudio system. The 12/12 is a wonderful system, it makes listen a joy, but there is that issue about the DSP, and how is 'alters' the sound - Discussed at length here at the forum - and how the 10/8 system is such a poor relation to the 12/12 system. The new system in a standard guise holds up much better agains the dynaudio version, but it is in the top and especially definition of the lower sound range were the Dynaudio version simply beats all of them, with a good audio source (i.e. not a low bit rate mp3) it sounds simply superb. 

It may also be of interest that the Dynaudio version is now standard fit to all MY12 Phaetons (factory orders after week 22), so I guess they are not selling as many of them as they had hoped. 

Regards, 

Johan


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## keetybwoy (Jun 12, 2011)

Ok guys,

Here it is the build/mod differences through the Phaeton range. Just so you don't miss it on this now old thread I'll also put it on a new one. I hope this helps you in some way. 

Keith



Reference: VW-2011/06-025406

Dear Mr Jennings

Thank you for your interest in the Volkswagen Phaeton. As requested, I have outlined some of the major changes that the vehicle
has had over the last few years. Please accept my apologises for the delay in sending this information.

The development of the Volkswagen Phaeton has led to many individual patents for Volkswagen, specific to the design of the
vehicle. Its distinctive features include a draught-free, four-zone climate system, air compressor suspension system, and
standard Torsen-based 4Motion four-wheel drive.

The piano lacquer exterior body colour option is double-painted and sanded between the first and second paint application
providing the vibrant black colour that is well know with the Phaeton.
The Volkswagen Phaeton was released in 2003 with two engines options. It was available with a choice of two types of alloy wheel
with rim sizes of either 17 or 18 inches.

The two engine options were:
3.2 l V6 - 241PS - 5 speed auto tiptronic (available in front wheel drive only)
6.0 l W12 - 420PS - No longer in production (available in two and four wheel drive)
Both vehicles were available in the long wheel base (LWB) model.

The transmission was:
5-speed auto tiptronic transmissions only

The running gear functionalities were:
front and rear independent suspension
speed dependent servotronic steering
smooth steering with high utility control electronics
CDC air suspension with automatic self-levelling and height adjustment system.

The optional extras were:
electrically adjustable seating, keyless entry, navigation system 7" colour screen, phone preparation, multi-function steering
wheel, power operated boot (standard on 6.0L W12), cruise control, premium rear seats and bi-xenon headlights with washers.

From 2004 to 2006, a wide range of engines were introduced to the market, all with 4Motion powertrains. From 2004 onwards all
new models have only been available in 4Motion permanent four-wheel drive.

In addition to what was available on the 2003 model, further optional accessories and extras were introduced alongside a larger
range of alloy wheels.

The two engine options were:
3.0 l V6 TDi - 225PS
3.2 l V6 - 240PS
4.2 l V8 - 335PS
5.0 l V10 TDi - 313PS
6.0 l W12 - 420PS
With the exception of the 3.0 l, all engines were available on both the standard and long wheel base models until 2006. However,
from 2006, engines above 4 l were no longer available on a standard wheel base.


The transmissions were:
5-speed auto tiptronic (W12 engine only)
6-speed auto tiptronic (all other models)

In 2007, the 5.0L V10 was removed from the range, while 2008 saw a reduction of available engines sizes and a few changes to the
fitted accessories as detailed below.

The engine options are:
3.0 l V6 TDi - 240PS
6.0 lW12 - 450PS

The transmissions are:
5-speed auto tiptronic (W12 engine only),
6-speed auto tiptronic (all other models)

The optional extras are:
A new RNS810, 7" colour screen satellite navigation system, automatic hazard warning lights activation under emergency braking,
automatic door locking under speed (can be deactivated), remote boot lid release and fuel cap flap unlocking, dusk sensors,
automatic driving lights, wood and leather trimmed gear knob, chrome air inlets, "Cherry red" rear lights incorporating LED
technology, fewer 18" and 19" alloys offered but different styles available, the Dynaudio sound system (12 channel digital
amplifier., 1000 watt output and 12 speakers), the new rSAP (remote sim access profile), Bluetooth telephone preparation, side
scan lane change assist and the rear view camera.

In 2009, Volkswagen gave the interior and exterior of the Phaeton a minor facelift to offer a better alignment with our
competitors. This update included new LED daytime running lights, as well as a freshened centre console with revamped controls
and materials, new leather colour, new wood trims, white switch illumination instead of red, accent and switch trim in the new
"Warm gray" colour, an upgraded car key, makeup mirror in the rear on the LWB version, dampers optimised for low-friction, a
slightly modified radiator grille and a few additional exterior colours: Mocha, Anthracite Grey, Silver Leaf and Pewter Gray.

Currently only available in a 3 l model, the most recent Phaeton has received a new front chrome fascia to more closely resemble
the current Volkswagen styling direction. This includes new LED running lights, bi-xenon headlights and a new bumper with LED
fog lights. The rear LED clusters have been altered as well to mimic those found on the recently face lifted Touran, Sharan, and
new Touareg. The interior benefits from some new technologies as well but retains the 2009 Model layout. This is available in
either a standard or long wheel base models with a 5-seat or optional 4-seat layout. Available features include all-wheel drive,
air suspension and 4-zone automatic climate control, new model RNS810 navigation system with (rSAP and HPF) Bluetooth phone
preparation (not standard) and the Dynaudio 12 channel 1000 watt output sound pack.

You may order a current brochure and pricelist from our website by copying and pasting the following link into your web browser:
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/order-a-brochure

You can also visit your local Volkswagen Approved Retailer who can assist you with any further queries you may have.





I trust this information proves useful. Thank you for contacting Volkswagen UK.

Yours sincerely


Gareth Brenchley
Customer Relations Manager
Volkswagen Customer Services Centre

Tel: 0800 032 2278
E-mail: [email protected]
Internet: www.volkswagen.co.uk


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Some informations don't sound right.

Was there really a two wheels drive W12 ?
It also seemed as if the V10 diesel had stopped in 2005, not 2007...

P.


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

Zaphh said:


> Some informations don't sound right.
> 
> Was there really a two wheels drive W12 ?
> It also seemed as if the V10 diesel had stopped in 2005, not 2007...
> ...


Hi, 

I think that is right, when we ordered our first one, 2006, you could still order the V10...

Johan


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## keetybwoy (Jun 12, 2011)

A'ha,

Looks as though not all the information is as accurate as I'd like. Sorry guys. 

I'm still learning so kinda accepted that VW was being truthful. There is a lot of info there so he may have got this date wrong, well it looks that way. 

Have you found it useful though?

Keith


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## lucatambu (Apr 5, 2011)

Looks like this guy is a little bit confused.
It says that the RNS810 was introducted in 2008, but few row under,
it says that it was a 2009 emprovement.
:screwy:
the RNS810 is a 2009 feature, for what i know only for MY2010 (GP2)
and the screen is 8", not 7"


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

lucatambu said:


> Looks like this guy is a little bit confused.
> It says that the RNS810 was introducted in 2008, but few row under,
> it says that it was a 2009 emprovement.
> :screwy:
> ...


Hi Keith,

unfortunately the reply from VW sums up the complete lack of product training/support in the UK (and from reading between the lines, many (read MOST) of VW's European/Worldwide markets).
This I think comes about from the company not fully believing in the product. How many times have I heard "it cost how much?!!, its just a VW"
Well yes, it is "just" a VW, but so is a Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Audi, not to mention Seat, Skoda, etc.
I have had many Mercedes ( the last one being a Brabus CLK) a few BMW's, Audi's, even a big Renault Vel Satis (yes a £34k Renault)!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now take away the brand snobbery (not remotely deserved in most cases) and before I became a Phaeton convert, the best car I have owned was.... yes the £34k Renault! If only VW could get their head from up their corporate ass!!
Stunning product, pathetic marketing and even worse support, especially at dealer level!
Just buy one, everyone here can help sort the car, VW UK can't/won't, end of!

Stu


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## keetybwoy (Jun 12, 2011)

Hi Stu,

Thought I was doing a good thing getting this info but if it's inaccurate I'm doing the opposite. I don't want people like me who have a limited intellect of the Phaeton taking this info from VW as gospel!

This has really annoyed me. In my line of work I'm very precise and like to think VW should be to especially as it's their own product!!!

How stupid have I been. God, what a waste of time. I can't believe it..........anyway, calm…

Well at least anyone reading this thread wanting the info I'm after from the horses mouth as it were, will read on and find it's mostly pointly put, horse crap. 

Sorry guys:facepalm:

Keith


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## JockMacMad (May 18, 2011)

*If its a GP0*

If it's a GP0 on a 2007 I would say some negotiation on price is in order.

I got my GP0 3.0 TDI in April from a dealer with 12 months AA Gold Warranty for £15,000. So £16.5k + is a tad on the heavy side. I guess the spec could make a difference but IMHO I would say not.

I would try £14,000 as an opening. Anyone else have any price ideas?


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

JockMacMad said:


> If it's a GP0 on a 2007 I would say some negotiation on price is in order.
> 
> I got my GP0 3.0 TDI in April from a dealer with 12 months AA Gold Warranty for £15,000. So £16.5k + is a tad on the heavy side. I guess the spec could make a difference but IMHO I would say not.
> 
> I would try £14,000 as an opening. Anyone else have any price ideas?


Hi,

I would concur! Phaetons aren't the easiest sell (see my rant above)! Make sure that if at all possible, you get a DECENT warranty.

Stu


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## mollymuck (Jul 20, 2011)

Hi there

Keith I am a newbie to forum (this is my 3rd post) also and I wouldn't feel bad about trying to impart what you thought was helpful information as you were not to know how bad VW are. I have also found this thread very interesting and Stu's rant made me laugh (I am going to start a new thread about "Brand Snobbery").

I thought i'd take the opportunity to share my experience with VW & Forum to date. I visited the Bristol VW dealership around a month ago as they are one of VW's "luxury Car Dealers" i.e. apparently around 1 in 4 dealers have this status which means they can sell Phaetons. They had a demonstrator on display and when i asked the salesmen if i could test drive the Phaeton he made a very poor attempt at disguising a look of shock and disbeleif! He then recovered his composure particularly when he realised i was serious and when we test drove the car he said things like this is a real luxury car great engine ect

However when it came to answering any questions he was hopeless. Also i was stunned that they did not have any paint, leather or wood trim samples for the Phaeton!!! This is a big VW dealership and it shows how commited they are to selling the Phaeton when they don't even think its worth having these samples.........they obviously don't expect to sell any!

So i still had lots of questions nothing really technical just about colours and options which i couldn't get any help with until I discovered this forum. Well all the help and answers to my questions have come from the forum. I could also give many examples of incorrect information from VW for example in the Phaeton sales brochure it says that if you order the sensitive seats you get the leather extended to include the upper dash but Johan (who has been a big help) explained that you don't. So the brochure is wrong! I'm not out to give VW a bashing this is just my experience as a new buyer.

Anyway i am really excited about my new purchase and hope to have my new car by the end of November.

Paul


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

mollymuck said:


> Hi there
> 
> Keith I am a newbie to forum (this is my 3rd post) also and I wouldn't feel bad about trying to impart what you thought was helpful information as you were not to know how bad VW are. I have also found this thread very interesting and Stu's rant made me laugh (I am going to start a new thread about "Brand Snobbery").
> 
> ...


Hi Paul,

perhaps the best thing about VW's ineptitude is the rarity of the Phaeton. I still get at least 2-3 people stop me daily to ask about the car! My friend has an Aston Virage and to date no-one has even given it a second look!!!
Only last week I had a car park next to me (Citroen Saxo I think), out piled four burly Asian lads and a very pretty young lady, they came and asked if I minded them taking a picture of said young lady draped over the bonnet of "the best looking car they'd seen in ages"!!
I did offer to take the young lady for a "demonstration" of the Phaetons strengths etc (okay now I'm dreaming)!! But it goes to show the car is still fabulous in almost every respect!
Enjoy your new ride when she arrives!

Stu

ps re brand snobbery, I have to admit to telling people it is very much akin to the Bentley Flying Spur, not mentioning that it also shares many parts with a Skoda Superb! (or Audi A8)


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## keetybwoy (Jun 12, 2011)

Well Paul, Stu and everyone else,

I'm glad to see it wasn't time wasted. If you want to experience snobbery at it's best, visit a BMW dealer. Any one will do, they're all the same. I've owned several BMW's with the latest being a diesel X5 which I bought for the wife and kids. 

The best dealership I found was Lexus. Really really helpful and knowledgeable. 

Best of luck with your purchase Paul. Very jealous, but don't tell anyone :facepalm:

Keith


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## fdtinc (Dec 31, 2010)

AudianerA6, a question:

"the new Phaetons all use the plastic windshield wiper blade engine frame. They usually will fail in EVERY GP0 sooner or later."

Is that a commonly known issue around here?
i do not recall seeing any threads about it. If there are some, can you point me there, if not, can you provide some more information?

Ask, because we're stil lon CPO, sounds like something that ought to be checked out within the coverage.
Thanks for your help!


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## fdtinc (Dec 31, 2010)

AudianerA6 said:


> so the expensive dsp digital processor has been removed in the new system. No more Sourrund Sound, Orchestra or Jazz effects.


As someone with a bit of an audiophile pretension (these days the budget gets stretched thin very quickly with truly high-end audio), I found the "sound" options of the DSP interesting at first, but tired of it very quickly.
While it does its thing well, it;s not a great thing to me.
It gives the same, non-true, sound to whatever one listens to, none if it real in any sense.
True hall ambience can't be achieved in that way.

These days, it's either just the normal setting, or the driver-centric one, depending.
It is a nice little toy to show-off, as it does impress most people, because the DSP effect is so easily perceivable.
So, IMHO, I wouldn't miss the absence of the DSP, so long as the other Dynaudio parts were superior (which does seem to be the case from your post and the others ).
Just my take...

Also, about the comments on VW accuracy in providing information:

A few months ago, a at a local VW dealer, the salesman there who used to sell Phaetons, was telling me in all seriousness, that the Phaeton was identical to the A8 of the same model year, except for the design appearance, especially sharing the same platform.

No comment.


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

fdtinc said:


> As someone with a bit of an audiophile pretension (these days the budget gets stretched thin very quickly with truly high-end audio), I found the "sound" options of the DSP interesting at first, but tired of it very quickly.
> While it does its thing well, it;s not a great thing to me.
> It gives the same, non-true, sound to whatever one listens to, none if it real in any sense.
> True hall ambience can't be achieved in that way.
> ...


Hi

The last paragraph sums it up................

Stu


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## keetybwoy (Jun 12, 2011)

I suppose if you can't trust a Vw salesman who should know off by heart every aspect of every model, then who can you trust?

Oh yeah… guys like you on forums who own, drive and have an affiliation for your cars instead of a guy who sees you as his next commission payment. 

Or am I seeming to be too cynical?

Keith


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## mollymuck (Jul 20, 2011)

I am not sure it's a question of trust for example I trust the guy(Neil) who sold me my new car. I think it's more a question of technical incompetence. Although to be fair Neil was knowledgable about other VW's he just knew nothing about the Phaeton! Then again why should he after all it is there flagship model!!!!


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Realist42 said:


> Hi,
> 
> GP0 is the car that was sold from launch until late 2007 (model year 2008) it had the original CD based satnav and the 225PS/222bhp TDI engine
> 
> ...


This is really interesting. I have a GP1, 3.0 V6 TDI here in the UK, but when I got it on the dyno at the dealership I bought it from we got 243whp. I assumed I had the 240ps variant that had just been under quoted on its power and must have been higher than VW claimed at new. Looking at this though the GP1 only had 230bhp at new so I have somehow gained 13bhp over 10 years.

My assumption is this would have had to have been remapped at some point in the previous owners time with it. It had an ABT Performance badge on the back but nothing mentioned in the description.


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