# blown 24v



## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)




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## Turbonium20V (Jun 30, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

Numbers!! more info!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## stiffy (Jul 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

nice, very well hidden. I couldn't see the charger until I studied the picture for awhile. How much horse power are you planning on producing? Is this going to compete with Z-engineering's charger as far as price goes?


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## Eric24v (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

Oh my gosh!!! get this puppy up and running! WE WANT MORE INFO http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (VtecThisOneRiceboy)*

yah more info would be great.
dyno sheets please!!!


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## Got 24v (Feb 12, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*


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## FrankiEBoneZ (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Got 24v)*

Sweet, something serious for our 24v counterparts http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .


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## omeezy (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (FrankiEBoneZ)*

ITS ALIIIIIVE!!!!! Hell yea, bout time I've been looking forward t this kit for a lil while. Plan on getting it in may perhaps, but lets get some more info


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## climbingcue (Feb 2, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (stiffy)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Is this going to compete with Z-engineering's charger as far as price goes? [HR][/HR]​This is going to replace the Z-charger....


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## DERFahrenFuhrer43 (Oct 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (climbingcue)*

OMG OMG OMG!!!














gazooks man how much HP how much for cost!!!! jesus oh god im hyperventalating ohhh godddd!!! dammit control ummmm *drool* ok cost COST! im first dammit i was first in line!!! damn ohhhh wait







im cool im cool more info more info..............wow ok lets get some info!!!


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## BORA20VT (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (DERFahrenFuhrer43)*

Somebody give this guy a Valium, hahaha.


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## vwericvw (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

Man! Now i have to go change my underwear.







I want.
ERiC


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## mark4 (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (climbingcue)*

I get the feeling Z-chargers have got a bad rep. I have been in a Mk3 VR6 one and was hugely impressed. Even the install looked almost factory fitted. Are they unreliable or something? Or just too expensive?
Can anyone personally say anything bad about them from first hand experience - other than belt slip - which is easily curable - and probably down to a bad installation or incorrect pulley/belt combo.
I totally agree with the person who said something about a supercharger being more in keeping with the 24Vs character - i.e. smooth constant power delivery. Who needs lag - weve got DBW! Anyway - surely anything over 300whp (e.g. with turbo) is far too much for for the FWD chassis.


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

We dont have any numbers yet as we are doing the software tuning on GIACs new Mustang Dyno next week.
We dont think with our 3 yr unlimited mileage warranty that there will be much to compete with, but nonetheless, a Z-Eng kit made by the Swiss (never sold in the USA) but still sold in Europe is not bad. It has software issues and our retail outlet in the UK custom tuned most of the kits themselves at great expense. 
All our VF-Eng kits are custom tuned by GIAC and will be sold worldwide and this new VF-Eng kit will superceed all kits. It is the grand-daddy of our product range so far. Stage1 will push 6.0 psi into the 24v and we have calculated a rough estimate of 260 whp or 295 hp at the flywheel. We will be releasing dynos and description online next week and are also taking pre-orders in return for a 10% discount. Delivery is 2nd week of Feb approx.


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## jae (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

*drool* - if only money grew on trees.


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## 24VGLi (May 20, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (jae)*

I need a new job


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## DERFahrenFuhrer43 (Oct 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (24VGLi)*

w00t sweet i knew finally someone was gonna have a supercharger soon damn i cant wait to preorder cuz i will cuz i have nothing better to do then put myself in debt!


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## mtulashie (May 11, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (DERFahrenFuhrer43)*

Damn that thing is tight.
You know your warranty goes out the window for the engine and trans


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## lkwdVR6 (Aug 28, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (mtulashie)*

this is what i have been waiting for im gonna stay tuned


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## 20-Valves (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (stiffy)*

quote:[HR][/HR]nice, very well hidden. I couldn't see the charger until I studied the picture for awhile. How much horse power are you planning on producing? Is this going to compete with Z-engineering's charger as far as price goes? [HR][/HR]​Yea, cause you can't see the ginormous blower popping out














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
This lil' 1.8t is gonna be peein' in it's panties when that thing hits the streets!!


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (20-Valves)*

quote:[HR][/HR]This lil' 1.8t is gonna be peein' in it's panties when that thing hits the streets!!





















[HR][/HR]​you can take our word for it.

goodbye 1.8t, hello Mr. VR6.


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## bradleyland (Aug 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

I just want to know who the lucky SOB is that owns that car.
THANK YOU so much for putting out this kit... 6 psi, 95 HP increase... wow http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jae (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (bradleyland)*

what's one of these cost again? 
i wonder if my gf would let me buy one of these for her (for my car) in lieu of an engagement ring....
but on 2nd thought, probably not.


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## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (jae)*

DAMNNNNN!!!! See, in all honesty, THAT'S what I'd like to drop in my 337. A 24v VR6 SC. Those are some very sick numbers....
To the guy asking about the reputation of the SCs, I don't think I've ever heard a bad thing about them. Yes, they are expensive. Thus the reason why I never got one for my MKIII VR6







. But, if the money was there , I'd have done it in a heartbeat. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (dcomiskey)*

If stage I is 6psi anbd estimated 260whp (even if ti was 250whp), stage III at 10.5psi with air-water cooler would be what, like 300whp? 
What about tuning for cams? Have you got that planned, or just getting the basic bolt on kits setup first?


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## Eric24v (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

Everyone take a moment and think.... 
*Out on the highway- M3 go byeBYE!!!* 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for the SC and







to every car that now only gets to see our tail lights!


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## 20-Valves (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

quote:[HR][/HR]...goodbye 1.8t, hello Mr. VR6.[HR][/HR]​Umm, I wouldn't go that far


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## vwericvw (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (20-Valves)*

quote:[HR][/HR]...goodbye 1.8t, hello Mr. VR6.
Umm, I wouldn't go that far







[HR][/HR]​I agree. A stage 3 1.8t makes usually around 285whp. Uses A LOT more psi to make that, but still does it. The 24v though, retains the dual-plenum, VGi intake manifold which means it retains that nice feel from 1000rpms all the way to where ever VF sets the rev limiter at. What will be really interesting is when an R32 has this setup. 300whp is very easy to reach i would say and AWD to help the launch. mmmmmm...the ultimate hatch.
ERiC


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## Eric24v (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vwericvw)*

A month or two back, stage 1 was said to cost $3750. Is this still going to be true. 
Hmmmm... 260 ponies to the turf for this price.... just might have to void my warrenty a lil' early








VRoooom6


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## vtechTHIS (Nov 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

vf-eng: i assume that its a vortech head unit??? oil fed? or self-contained? looks like oil fed by the line coming from the top. if indeed oil fed, s-trim??, do you have to tap into the oil pan or do you have a seperate oil system for the blower? i am very interested and will more than likely be purchasing but my car is leased and i really don't want to have to replace the oil pan if i decide to trade it in at the end of the lease. also i noticed the route of the piping and realized the ease of mounting an aftercooler down in the bumber like an intercooler (i know they are basically the same, i have just always associated aftercoolers with blowers) do you have any plans for a stage 2 or basically a stage 1 with the aftercooler (exactly what i'd want)? also will the pump or injectors need to be upgraded?


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## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (vtechTHIS)*

"No, our kit is nothing like the other kit on the market. With our SC kit you:
- do not tap the "sender unit", we provide a T-piece to the oil pressure switch - plug and play.
- do not cut a hole in the frame for the oil return, our oil return line has a clear path to the oil pan.
- do not have to swap the oil pan or have your AC pulley machined down
- do not get any check lights, flat spots or lean conditions
- are supplied special tool to punch and tap to cut thread into pan
- do not have to fit an idler bracket and pulley
- greater belt wrap on the supercharger which has eliminated belt slip
- get a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty and options to upgrade to stage 2 and 3
- get safe fuelling mapping with injectors that are not being maxed out
All in all we have been supercharging VR6s for over 6 years and we have put all our experience into this new product. This kit takes about 3 hours to install if you have nimble fingers and only needs 8 bolts and 7 hose clamps to fit."


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## vwericvw (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vtechTHIS)*

quote:[HR][/HR] if indeed oil fed, s-trim??,[HR][/HR]​G-trim is listed on their website i believe, which is the right size for the vr6. The S-trim blower was never intended for use on a 2.8L engine. Its a freakin mustang v8 blower, which have motors quite a bit bigger than the vr6.
ERiC


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vwericvw)*

The info posted above is correct. 
With regards to removing the oil drain in the oil pan - we supply and very tidy looking blanking insert.
The kit for the 24v will be sold in 2 or 3 stages. 
*Stage 1* will be a clean cut bolt on setup with 6.0 psi. 
*Stage 2a* will consist of bigger injectors and chargecooler (air to water intercooler) and 8.0 psi.
*Stage 2b* will be as stage 2a but 9.5 psi
Final information, full text, photos and dyno will be online today http://www.vf-engineering.com/vw_mk4vr6u24.htm Driving the car is a such pleasure and everyone at the office fights for the keys. Rediculously smooth, relentless, never ending power. You get to 120mph without realizing.


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## vwericvw (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

should we expect the pricing to be $3750 for stage 1 just like the 12v vr6 kit?
ERiC


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## vtechTHIS (Nov 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

vf eng: is there any way to use a remote oil filter kit and cannibalize it to work with the charger instead of using the oil pan: for example use a dual remote filter kit. use one side for the oil filter and use the other for the charger??? i know it could work, just need a little ingenuity. i know others would prefer the same setup if at all possible. i really want this but i really don't want to have to swap pans. for an example of what i am talking about click below:
http://www.thebestoil.com/dual_remote.htm


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (vtechTHIS)*

If you are going to spend 4k on supercharging your engine, dont cheap out on something as insignificant as buying a replacement oil pan. Plus, once your car is blown you wont be trading it in at the end of the lease







, especially if they find out what youve done








I should change my sn to NIKE and tell you to *Just Do It!*


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## usfgtivr6 (Jul 29, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

I think I'm in love


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## omeezy (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (usfgtivr6)*

i just got off the phone with Euro-Sport Accessories talkin about the vF- Engineering tranny mount and he was telling me that the guy from VF- engineering was dynoing the stg. 1 24v as we speak. he said the nital numbers were around 250whp, which i think is a tad low but like he said that was after the first one or so. still tuning I assume. anyway, I'm very interested what the final numbers are gonna be for our motor.


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## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (omeezy)*

250whp is not low, a stock 24V puts out 174-180 whp. Those aren't bad numbers for 6psi


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## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (SCVR6)*

I want to know more. I want to see dynos. I hope they are posted soon.


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## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (Jeebus)*

Aight guys let them work out any bugs, tune it, make finaly software and release thier dynos








I think theres a lot of potential in this 24v, the stage III with mods (software/cams/headwork/etc..) will yield fantastic gains, I would imagine in excess of 300whp pretty easily. Now just need to beef up the tranny a little


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## DERFahrenFuhrer43 (Oct 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

well im just getting mah credit card ready to go and pre-order gonna see wats mah limit is. if its 5k im set if not dammit gonna have to call in a extension buhahhahaha more debt muhahahhaa! can a brother in need can get more than a 10% discount?







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







LOL


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Jeebus)*

Well here you go:
We dynod today on Garretts Mustang: http://www.vf-engineering.com/images/24vstage1md.jpg
Then we dynod on Eurosport's Dynojet: http://www.vf-engineering.com/images/24vstage1dj.jpg
product is complete and all info is now online: http://www.vf-engineering.com/vw_mk4vr6u24.htm
happy VR6ing


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## bradleyland (Aug 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

Man that kit rocks, but please tell your web designer to kill the shaking window... it's annoying.
40% power increase =






















I wonder what the chances of my tax return being $4000 are??? Time to bust open that piggy bank! The kit looks awesome, you guys really live up to your reputation.


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## zerind (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: blown 24v (bradleyland)*

I hope to have one of these kits on my car by middle of next month hopefully! Nik I'll give you a ring again tommorow


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## jae (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (bradleyland)*

i'll second the complain on the shaking window.
*drool* i really, really need a new job so i can get one of these.


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## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (zerind)*

Hey Zerind keep us up to date. I've been following your car(s) for a while and I can't wait to see it with this in it. I want to hear more about it. This is definitely something I'm seriously considering. I can't wait until you guys start installing them. I'm siked for you.


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## DERFahrenFuhrer43 (Oct 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Jeebus)*

BY tha way i was wondering how will the pre-ordering plan and 10% deal work out and when will i expect to recieve the kit if i order. also is the 4000k price include warranty too. thanks


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## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (Jeebus)*

This kit is going to rock the industry! Optional 3 year warranty, rock solid charger, plug and play, NO fueling issues!!


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## Nickel98 (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

quote:[HR][/HR] Driving the car is a such pleasure and everyone at the office fights for the keys. Rediculously smooth, relentless, never ending power. You get to 120mph without realizing. [HR][/HR]​Uh guys... Do you think I can have a turn? You know I do make the car payment, insurance payment, and I did fill the gas tank before dropping it off!
This is kind of like having your girlfriend in Playboy.








You guys can look, and dream, but don't touch!








Can't wait untill tomorrow when I finally get to drive it.


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Nickel98)*

how do you guys pick cars to test things on?
You just pick some lucky bastard and let them keep the kit?
or are they people who work for you?
do you take the kit back once its completed?


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## Driverwanted (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (bakersfield_gti)*

This is awesome.... I couldn't wait for the 24v so i settled for the 1.8t , not that i'm not happy with it , but my next VW will be a vr6 and i'll include the money for this in my loan.....
ps here are some numbers on Cost per 1HP
1.8T chip (APR) 799/23 =34$ per HP
APR Stage III 4000/110 = 36$ per HP
VF ENg Supercharger 3600/80 = 45$ per HP..... 
Stage 3 w/ 10% off = 6075/140 = 43$ per HP

So i guess what i'm saying is , if you are going to shell out the money for this , you should go with stage 3 - it saves you 2$ per HP


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## BORA20VT (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (Driverwanted)*

I have a few problems with the above dyno's.
Now, this isn't an annoying post from a bratty 1.8Ter...I'll be in a VR by Late this year so this is of interest to me as well.
1- It advertises 6psi at 7000rpm, however the dyno pull stopped at 6500rpm....so being that this is a centrifugal supercharger, you never saw full 6psi at 6500rpm.
2- It looked like it was still making power when the pull ended at 6500rpm, why wasn't it extended to the GIAC chip's 7200rpm redline (or 7000?).
3- Whats going on on the Dynojet pull around 5700rpm, there seems to be a serious pull back on timing or something, cause that drop up there is pretty uncharacteristic to Centrifugal blowers....is it a 24V VR6 charater hiccup or what??

Just curious cause it seems that if that top end fuzzyness was worked out and the pull was done to 7000rpm the numbers would look more like 265-270whp. Just follow the hp line at the same rate and approximate it over that 5700rpm drop then extend it to 7000rpm or even 7200rpm and you've got one helluva hp line.

Peter


[Modified by BORA20VT, 5:05 PM 1-14-2003]


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## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (BORA20VT)*

This is all very interesting. Can anyone elaborate at all on this. Why wasn't the pull made to 7000 rpm's? It almost seems like they are selling themself short. 
I guess we just need more people with these kits to get them dialed in pefect. Then we'll see the real numbers.


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## BORA20VT (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (Jeebus)*

HELLO?? Anybody home?


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

The dyno pulls were made to 7k rpm on the instrument cluster. For various reasons the cluster shows 7k but the dyno shows 6800. We are not going to increase the rev limiter beyond 7k on the cluster becuase that is as far as we are prepared to go. 
*The power that is achieved with this stage 1 is not going to improve any further. The stock fuel system is at its limit.* If we increased boost any further the fuel system would not be able to meet the demand. Hence bigger injectors are provided with stage 2.
We have achieved our goal and the power increase (as advertised) is shown in the 2 independent dynos we have provided. The reason the dyno is a little fuzzy up top is because it needs to adapt at the higher rpms as we hadnt given it the opportunity to do so. Later in the week we will re-dyno the car and if required revise software. We are not shipping for 4 weeks, so we have time for revisions. We are perfectionists, so you have our assurance that we do whatever it takes. 
-nik


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## jae (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

how does the warrenty you are offering work? 
if something goes wrong, it's not like i can ship the engine over to you guys to look at - if we were to need service, what would be the proceedure?


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## BORA20VT (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (jae)*

jae - good question
VF-engineering - Thank you for that clarification, I understand the fueling issue is the limiting factor at this point. Isn't the standard GIAC software limiter set at 7200rpm?? Is the 7200rpm limiter with the S/C a problem??
Again thanks a bunch, looking forward to the next dyno pulls with the sorted out top end....it at least "looks" like there is more up there.


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (jae)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
how does the warrenty you are offering work? if something goes wrong, it's not like i can ship the engine over to you guys to look at - if we were to need service, what would be the proceedure? [HR][/HR]​As with all aftermarket warranties, product warranties implicity cover the product only. This is made clear by most aftermarket manufacturers. Please be clear, our warranty only covers our product. Our experience in supercharging VR6s for over 5 years gave us the hindsight to build such a kit and fit it to this almost brand new car without worry about side effects to the motor. Furthermore we have been supercharging this 24v engine in Europe for over 2 years now. 
quote:[HR][/HR]Isn't the standard GIAC software limiter set at 7200rpm?? Is the 7200rpm limiter with the S/C a problem??[HR][/HR]​We do not have experience with n/a chip limiters. 7200 with our s/c is no problem at all. The SC specs are on our site in case you wanted to see them. Our kit is setup in stage 1 to run the blower to only 60% of its capacity.


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## 20-Valves (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Driverwanted)*

quote:[HR][/HR]1.8T chip (APR) 799/23 =34$ per HP
APR Stage III 4000/110 = 36$ per HP
VF ENg Supercharger 3600/80 = 45$ per HP..... 
Stage 3 w/ 10% off = 6075/140 = 43$ per HP[HR][/HR]​Please, allow me to revise - 
APR Stage I 93 Octane - 180BHP ---> 215BHP = Difference of +35hp
*$500/+35 = $14 per HP Gained*







That's the 93 Octane program only - $500... Wherever you get $799, that would include the Race Gas file making more than 215BHP...
Now, figure if you get the APR Stage III, you can get the Race Gas for free, hence you'll have the ability to make that kind of power - 180BHP ---> 338BHP = Difference of +158hp
*$3,995/+158 = $25 per HP Gained*








This is thinking logically with the cost you are paying. If you want to figure in clutch and all that extra nonsense, figure that you'll have to do that on either car - so the $:HP rate equivilates disregarding other additional components (install, drivetrain, etc)














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jae (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
As with all aftermarket warranties, product warranties implicity cover the product only. This is made clear by most aftermarket manufacturers. Please be clear, our warranty only covers our product. Our experience in supercharging VR6s for over 5 years gave us the hindsight to build such a kit and fit it to this almost brand new car without worry about side effects to the motor. Furthermore we have been supercharging this 24v engine in Europe for over 2 years now. 
[HR][/HR]​ right - i understand that - but you still didn't answer my question








say we did have a problem - how would we go about diagnosing that it's a problem w/ the kit? if we are on the opposite side of the country, it's not like we could stop by for you guys to take a look.
i appologize if i'm not asking this question clearly enough - if anyone else knows what i'm getting at and can ask in a more logical way, pls do so.


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## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (jae)*

Well first off you call VF-and give them a self diagnosis of what's going on with your car. Then I'm sure they can help you out, if it's something drastic you pull it off and you send it back to be fixed. Or if you near a authorized VF dealer you bring it to them for diagnosis. Use alittle common sense


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## GtiVr6SC34 (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (SCVR6)*

Nik and VF-Engineering provide truly excellent customer service. Nik is commited to making sure that everything works 100% with his kits. This has been my experience with Nik, and I'm in Canada. I'm a very satisfied customer!!


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (GtiVr6SC34)*

We even give you the tools to be self sufficient at diagnosis:
http://www.vf-engineering.com/faqmk4vr624vd.htm


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## DERFahrenFuhrer43 (Oct 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

hey ur 1800 number for orders dont work! crud dang it!


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## vwericvw (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (20-Valves)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Now, figure if you get the APR Stage III, you can get the Race Gas for free, hence you'll have the ability to make that kind of power - 180BHP ---> 338BHP = Difference of +158hp
*$3,995/+158 = $25 per HP Gained*








This is thinking logically with the cost you are paying. 














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif [HR][/HR]​I don't think its fair if your comparing a 91oct vf-kit to APR stage 3 that you use race gas dyno figures for the apr kit. I'm sure the vf-kit would be more powerful on 100octane.
The vf-kit gains you 280hp at the flywheel. and the APR stg 3 is 290hp at the fly. Both kits are the same price, difference to me being that the 24v SCed will be a much more streetable beast. Just my preference though.
ERiC
*Oh and WHY is the 24v kit $250 more than the mk4 12v kit???*


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## Driverwanted (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (20-Valves)*

quote:[HR][/HR]1.8T chip (APR) 799/23 =34$ per HP
APR Stage III 4000/110 = 36$ per HP
VF ENg Supercharger 3600/80 = 45$ per HP..... 
Stage 3 w/ 10% off = 6075/140 = 43$ per HP
Please, allow me to revise - 
APR Stage I 93 Octane - 180BHP ---> 215BHP = Difference of +35hp
*$500/+35 = $14 per HP Gained*







That's the 93 Octane program only - $500... Wherever you get $799, that would include the Race Gas file making more than 215BHP...
Now, figure if you get the APR Stage III, you can get the Race Gas for free, hence you'll have the ability to make that kind of power - 180BHP ---> 338BHP = Difference of +158hp
*$3,995/+158 = $25 per HP Gained*








This is thinking logically with the cost you are paying. If you want to figure in clutch and all that extra nonsense, figure that you'll have to do that on either car - so the $:HP rate equivilates disregarding other additional components (install, drivetrain, etc)














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif [HR][/HR]​Dood... This is a 24v Forum... do you think they care ? i'm not even gonna bother.


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## 20-Valves (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Driverwanted)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Dood... This is a 24v Forum... do you think they care ? i'm not even gonna bother.[HR][/HR]​I don't care if they don't care, I was correcting you. Dropped http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## butang (Oct 6, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (20-Valves)*

Haha, if 24Vers only cared about $$/hp, then we would have bought a 4 cylinder with a little turbo on it.








Now, if only I had some money left over from my car purchase so I could start doing some serious mods like this one!


----------



## BoGLI (Dec 8, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (zerind)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I hope to have one of these kits on my car by middle of next month hopefully! Nik I'll give you a ring again tommorow







[HR][/HR]​yo z, looks like i may have changed my mind. this may be a bit more reliable than what i was planning earlier. thats 2 now for TX.


----------



## Driverwanted (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (BoGLI)*

You all have too much money floating around......








i'm just jealous.


----------



## Nickel98 (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Driverwanted)*

Finally drove my baby! Damn! This thing moves!
Everyone kept telling me how smooth it was, ane how it felt totally stock (except of course with BIG balls). Well yada, yada, yada. Let me drive!
Well...they we're right. From start-up to drive off there is Zero indication you've got a beast under the hood. The only reminder is a tiny bit of charger whine. Where my old Z-Charger felt sluggish in the low revs, and came on fast & hard on the top, this car seamlessly builds on the boost and makes it feel like a factory monster. If you want big power, and you want the sophistication associated with VWs smooth VR6, this is THE ticket.
Although this thing is smooth, let me not forget that it is very, very fast as well. It remains very tractable through 1st gear, you just can't start with too many revs. 2nd & 3rd gear come by in a flash, and you'll see triple digits in no time. I still can't get over the torque when compared to my Z-Charged 97 GTI. You step...it goes.
I think the most exciting thing is that this is only the 1st step. Bring on Stages 2 & 3. Let's see how this puppy runs with 340 Hp!








Where's your 1.8T at now?


----------



## 24VGLi (May 20, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Nickel98)*

How much quicker is 0-60?


----------



## KingG2G (Jan 10, 2003)

*Re: blown 24v (Nickel98)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Where's your 1.8T at now?







[HR][/HR]​Right here in Huntington Beach. wanna set up a run















I drove a VF 12v car BTW


----------



## meatwad79 (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (KingG2G)*

thats crack for dubbers man...i would get one, but i'll be happy just to get my damn car outta the shop...been there for over a month now, and the company car im driving is a minivan!!!! DAAAAAHHHHH


----------



## Integrale (Aug 1, 1999)

*Re: blown 24v (Nickel98)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Finally drove my baby! Damn! This thing moves!
Everyone kept telling me how smooth it was, ane how it felt totally stock (except of course with BIG balls). Well yada, yada, yada. Let me drive!
Well...they we're right. From start-up to drive off there is Zero indication you've got a beast under the hood. The only reminder is a tiny bit of charger whine. Where my old Z-Charger felt sluggish in the low revs, and came on fast & hard on the top, this car seamlessly builds on the boost and makes it feel like a factory monster. If you want big power, and you want the sophistication associated with VWs smooth VR6, this is THE ticket.
Although this thing is smooth, let me not forget that it is very, very fast as well. It remains very tractable through 1st gear, you just can't start with too many revs. 2nd & 3rd gear come by in a flash, and you'll see triple digits in no time. I still can't get over the torque when compared to my Z-Charged 97 GTI. You step...it goes.
I think the most exciting thing is that this is only the 1st step. Bring on Stages 2 & 3. Let's see how this puppy runs with 340 Hp!








Where's your 1.8T at now?







[HR][/HR]​Is there any internal piston, rod, or block work done to the engine? Do you need to change the clutch or anything critical? Or is everything stock other than the supercharger?


----------



## Integrale (Aug 1, 1999)

*Re: blown 24v (20-Valves)*

quote:[HR][/HR]1.8T chip (APR) 799/23 =34$ per HP
APR Stage III 4000/110 = 36$ per HP
VF ENg Supercharger 3600/80 = 45$ per HP..... 
Stage 3 w/ 10% off = 6075/140 = 43$ per HP
Please, allow me to revise - 
APR Stage I 93 Octane - 180BHP ---> 215BHP = Difference of +35hp
*$500/+35 = $14 per HP Gained*







That's the 93 Octane program only - $500... Wherever you get $799, that would include the Race Gas file making more than 215BHP...
Now, figure if you get the APR Stage III, you can get the Race Gas for free, hence you'll have the ability to make that kind of power - 180BHP ---> 338BHP = Difference of +158hp
*$3,995/+158 = $25 per HP Gained*








This is thinking logically with the cost you are paying. If you want to figure in clutch and all that extra nonsense, figure that you'll have to do that on either car - so the $:HP rate equivilates disregarding other additional components (install, drivetrain, etc)














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif [HR][/HR]​
LOL...you really think your 1.8T can handle 338HP without any expensive modifications to the internals? Or Clutch? You'll be spending thousands....


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (Integrale)*

Ask billy T what he thinks about that.


----------



## Nickel98 (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Integrale)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Is there any internal piston, rod, or block work done to the engine? Do you need to change the clutch or anything critical? Or is everything stock other than the supercharger?
[HR][/HR]​The motor & transmission is 100% stock, and does not require anything further. THe VR6 drivetrain is really stout and is easily capable of 300+ Hp.
Alot of the upgrade clutches sold for the 1.8T are actually made from VR6 components. Fortunately, VW has the good habit of Totally over-building things.


----------



## 24VR6 (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (24VGLi)*

I would love to see bradleyland's acceleration/shift points chart with this kit. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=669131 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (24VR6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I would love to see bradleyland's acceleration/shift points chart with this kit. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=669131 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif [HR][/HR]​No need. Shift points with a centrifugal supercharger are ALWAYS at 
redline in every gear. Just the nature of the beast. The only limiting
factor with how much more power you can produce as the revs increase
is usually fueling. 
ian


[Modified by Daemon42, 1:32 AM 1-19-2003]


----------



## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (Daemon42)*

Positive Displacement Charger http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTiandrew (Nov 15, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

quote:[HR][/HR]This lil' 1.8t is gonna be peein' in it's panties when that thing hits the streets!!






















you can take our word for it.

goodbye 1.8t, hello Mr. VR6.[HR][/HR]​
It will be interesting to watch this thing run against APR Stage III 1.8t
I will bet my money on Stage III


----------



## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (GTiandrew)*

The VF- stage 3 kit will be putting out what the APR stage 3 kit does to the wheels if not more. 9.5PSI with aftercooler with well over 300whp! The VR6 will take it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (SCVR6)*

I totally agree. While the 1.8t is truggling to spool and find power the Vf equipped kit will put them to shame. Dont forget theres a lot of stuff you can do thats not even with the kit (displacement, headwork, cams, etc). Might even need new axles


----------



## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I totally agree. While the 1.8t is truggling to spool and find power the Vf equipped kit will put them to shame. Dont forget theres a lot of stuff you can do thats not even with the kit (displacement, headwork, cams, etc). Might even need new axles







[HR][/HR]​Your right, this kits numbers are based on a stock motor with no mods! No exhaust even, that will give it at least another 8whp with FI, then throw in some 256's and this thing is going to come alive!!


----------



## GTiandrew (Nov 15, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (SCVR6)*









If that is figure of $4000 stage I charger. Well, I will still bet my money on APR Stage III 1.8t
Im not making this 1.8t VS VR6 but vf engineering said quote:[HR][/HR]goodbye 1.8t, hello Mr. VR6.[HR][/HR]​. Well thats no figures to compete with approx same price tag APR Stage III 
Here is Stage III figure on 93 octane.

















Im not even going to mention the 100 octane figure. 



[Modified by GTiandrew, 4:26 AM 1-19-2003]


----------



## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (GTiandrew)*

If that is figure of $4000 stage I charger. Well, I will still bet my money on APR Stage III 1.8t
Well if you go to the APR site and look at the Stage 3 kit, it clearly states that a exhaust is not included in the kit. So keep that in mind and that kit is not making 300HP! By the way all their figures are rated at the crank not whp. So what I would like to see is what the car put's out with stock exhaust and 91 octane







Remember they are using 93 octane which makes a difference and we here in Cali only have 91, and the tuning isn't even finalized for the 24V. Sorry but theres no replacement for displacement


----------



## GTiandrew (Nov 15, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (SCVR6)*

This will be truly interesting to see. Hopefully they would have face off between SC 24VR6 vs APR Stage III 1.8t







Possibly in Waterfest 03? I will pay to watch that match!
and yeah I will still put my money on Stage III










[Modified by GTiandrew, 4:35 AM 1-19-2003]


----------



## Borax (Feb 24, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (GTiandrew)*

When is the euro version for RHD drives to be released, is ns-racing the distributor in the UK ??


----------



## Pocket Empty (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

Looks awesome!!! This will be something I'll be saving for! I know the boost will be enough for me!
How is the fuel consumption after installing the kit?
Also some of us are experiencing hot start stalling issues. Is GIAC working on a fix for this or this is not an issue anymore if I get this puppy installed? My car has this stalling problem right now.


----------



## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (Pocket Empty)*

I think it'll be easier to put the power down with the vr6. The powerband is much smoother. If this was a Posi Disp charger... it would just annhilate a 1.8t stage 3... it would not have more hp/trq, but you would not have to wait until 7000rpm to make peak hp








I drove my buddies 1.8t with Fm 3" turboback (race), chip, dv, and an intake. And it was hard to put the power down on his wide 17" tires. We lined up for a race, and it doesn;t matter how much hp he had, my vr6 with the basic i/c/e/cams/weight reduction, I just get a better launch and jumped like 4 cars ahead because he could not plant his tires. So it really is based on the driver. The turbo really kicks ass, and i could never imagine driving a turbo setup like that on the track... it would just be too eratic. Linear poewr band is where its at... and dri ver skill of course


----------



## bradleyland (Aug 25, 2002)

I love how everyone is comparing this kit with the State III 1.8t kit







The Stage I VF kit for the VR6 is only pushing 6 psi, that's less than a stock 1.8t. Give me some dished pistons and 20 psi though the 24v head and well see where the chips fall















I for one am very impressed with the current offering.
6 psi and almost 40% power improvement; that's about all you can ask for. As I remember, 40% improvement was on the optimistic side of their predictions... good job VF http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Edit: I was, of course, kidding about the pistons and 20 psi... it'd take more than pistons to run 20 psi reliably.


[Modified by bradleyland, 9:33 PM 1-19-2003]


----------



## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (bradleyland)*

40%? Where do you see those figures for stage I? Stage I is 250crank, and stock is 204hp, correct? Or are you talking about the 12v? Sorry I'm a bit confused thanks


----------



## bradleyland (Aug 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

Ummm. It's ok, I'll clarify.
If you'll take a look around, many 24v VR6's are putting down in the area of 180 WHP. The Stage I VF SC kit dyno is at the wheel. Thus 250-180=70; 70 is 38% of 180. Almost 40% improvement in power over stock... at the wheels, where it counts. 
Take a look here for a dyno comparison:


----------



## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (bradleyland)*

OH yea, Thats what I was thinking but I confused the 12v and 24v charts, haha. My bad thanks for the clarification. Yea those numbers are awesome, I think 300whp will be in easy reach with JUST the stage III... then header back, headwork, cams, software to match, maybe 3.0L







EW're in for some fun


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

quote:[HR][/HR]When is the euro version for RHD drives to be released, is ns-racing the distributor in the UK ??[HR][/HR]​We are shipping and chip tuning a 24v V6 4motion in the UK in March (note, the 97 octane may give better numbers!)
quote:[HR][/HR]How is the fuel consumption after installing the kit? Also some of us are experiencing hot start stalling issues. Is GIAC working on a fix for this or this is not an issue anymore if I get this puppy installed? My car has this stalling problem right now.[HR][/HR]​The fuel consumption is unaffected when you are on part throttle. When we hammer the car a full tank gets us 270 miles. Our test car thankfully has not suffered from any of the reported stalling issues. We have yet to come accross such a car. We have studied air flow patterns with our forced induction kits, and it is highly possible, that the recirculation system on our kit will eliminate the stall issue.
The 1.8t can be a fast car and the debate against the 1.8t is interesting, but sorry, the blown 24v is arguably in a class of its own. In our opinion the 24v owner is not neccessarily looking for traffic light launches, and earth shattering numbers. 
The VF-Engineering targeted customer is looking for sheer acceleration for effortless overtaking from 40-120 mph (laws permitting), and peak-less, spike-less power. Assured reliability with no comebacks.
Happy VR6ing,
VF-Engineering advocates safe and courteous driving at all times http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Nik.


----------



## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*



> The VF-Engineering targeted customer is looking for sheer acceleration for effortless overtaking from 40-120 mph (laws permitting), and peak-less, spike-less power. Assured reliability with no comebacks.
> 
> 
> > Its still Centrifugal though. If we had a bigger engine bay, Posi Disp might be easier, and would most likely perform better. Not necassarily more power, but where it would make the power would be key.
> > Nonetheless the new VF kits will be a revival of the S/C market for VR6's...


----------



## GTiandrew (Nov 15, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
The fuel consumption is unaffected when you are on part throttle. When we hammer the car a full tank gets us 270 miles. [HR][/HR]​WHAT??? You are getting reported 4 cylinder turbo engine efficiency out of blown 24v VR6? 
quote:[HR][/HR]Our test car thankfully has not suffered from any of the reported stalling issues. We have yet to come accross such a car. We have studied air flow patterns with our forced induction kits, and it is highly possible, that the recirculation system on our kit will eliminate the stall issue.[HR][/HR]​So the system isn't reliable yet. Since you are saying "Possible"
quote:[HR][/HR]
The 1.8t can be a fast car and the debate against the 1.8t is interesting, but sorry, the blown 24v is arguably in a class of its own. In our opinion the 24v owner is not neccessarily looking for traffic light launches, and earth shattering numbers. [HR][/HR]​Interesting enough, your site directly puts down turbo chragers. Well, that is given since SC is what you produce. You also have to expect the comparison when in fact you said "Goodbye 1.8t, hello Mr. VR6"


----------



## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (GTiandrew)*

Dont know if you know anything about business. But Demand and supply. Doesn't matter what make and if its the "best" if its whats in demand, thats what you make. Otherwise we would not have nya reliable shops/business's out there since they would all be out of business.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

quote:[HR][/HR]WHAT??? You are getting reported 4 cylinder turbo engine efficiency out of blown 24v VR6? [HR][/HR]​No. What is being reported is that the blown 24v has the same efficiency as the na 24v on part throttle.
quote:[HR][/HR]So the system isn't reliable yet. Since you are saying "Possible"[HR][/HR]​No. What is being said here is that we feel our kit could "possibly" fix the reported stall issues on the stock motor.
quote:[HR][/HR]Interesting enough, your site directly puts down turbo chragers. Well, that is given since SC is what you produce. You also have to expect the comparison when in fact you said "Goodbye 1.8t, hello Mr. VR6" [HR][/HR]​There are 3 ways you can interpret our posts.


----------



## Pocket Empty (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

You know I very much start to question VW's ability to write a program that actually focuses on taking advantage of their engine designs. I think there software developing team is only doing basic work just to get them going. But then again isn't BOSCH the one that writes it??? What do they know about VW engines and how to tune their software to the maximum? 
Anyhow just looking at your final product and results I'm very impressed and like to give you guys a http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Now I have to pay off my bills before I go for it. Are the installation instructions easy to follow for a local tuning shop to do this installation properly? Or do they need training?


[Modified by Pocket Empty, 6:52 PM 1-19-2003]


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (Pocket Empty)*

Not to start any arguments here (well maybe







), everybody that is saying buy bye 1.8t may be in for a little surprise. So 6k for the stage 3 (guesstimate based on 12v pricing) to put out what an apr stage III (4k) and $50 of race gas will do, plus you wont be making peak power until waaay up high. I know that those are just baseline numbers and im not figuring the cost of exhausts, lsd's, clutches, install etc. but please dont assume that you are going to be whooping on everything cause thats not what a supercharger is about. To me, a SC is just an almost bolt on and forget about it way to make a good chunk of SMOOTH power. I love my SC because the pull is very strong and i like the linear feel of it. However, I realize that I wont just be killing every other car I come into contact with.
Disclaimer= I also realize that the comments of bybye 1.8t were just in good fun, not a put down or anything.
As others said, people prefer different things. Some like the neck snapping wheel spinning low down torque of a turbo car, and some like the more refined power of a supercharger. With that said, I think the 24v SC kit will be tons of fun and if anybody in my area ends up with one I would love a ride







Enjoy fellas


----------



## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (leebro61)*

If you think those centrifugal are "linear" go drive a Posi Disp... you will love it. Example would be one of the new Benz's. Damn, taking out the C32 amg is like taking out neverending power fun


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

My car feels very linear. I think thats why it doesnt "feel" all that fast but you get moving very quickly. FUNFUNFUN


----------



## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

And it's true.. Centrifugal superchargers aren't linear, they're exponential.
A positive displacement blower moves a measured amount of air with each 
revolution and the total airflow increases in direct proportion to increasing rpms, 
but they are ultimately flow limited at high rpms as well as losing efficiency
due to high heat generation. Their biggest advantage is that they produce
boost at low rpms so the response is instant. The downside is that
at part throttle they drag as much or more than at WOT, so they're
usually designed with a bypass system of some sort. Some bypass
the airflow around the blower at part throttle and let the blower just feed 
itself, and others, like Mercedes do that, but also disengage the
blower completely with an electromagnetic clutch (like your A/C clutch). 
Generally speaking a positive displacement blower makes a smaller
engine feel like a bigger one. e.g. 4cyl->6cyl, 6->8, 8->whatever.
The supercharged Mercedes cars are indeed a huge barrel of fun.
A centrifugal blower (S/C and turbo compressors), has an open air path
between intake and outlet through the compressor fins, so they can't 
hold significant boost at low rpms, but they also don't produce
significant drag, so are more efficient than a positive displacement blower.
As rpms increase their airflow actually increases exponentially. Since 
the engine's demand for air increases linearly, what you typically see is
ever increasing power with higher rpms, up to where either the belts start
to slip, or the efficiency of the blower falls off, or you simply can't fuel it 
any more and have to stop the fun at the rev limiter. On small 
displacement, high revving engines a centrifugal blower can be quite 
peaky. On a larger displacement engine like the VR6 they work fairly well, 
because the natural low end grunt of the engine is then complimented by 
top end power that just goes and goes and goes. They don't have a 
neck snapping feel, but the speed just keeps rising the faster you go.
Since the power increases exponentially, and drag from air resistance
also increases eponentially the accelleration at high speeds feels
very "linear", which is why so many people talk about how smooth
they are. One interesting advantage they have, is that they can
be driven in the rain and snow, if all you do is shortshift, because the
low end power is not that much more than stock and there's no
moment where the power just nails you, like some turbos.
Launching a car with a centrifugal S/C at the track can be a trick though 
because there's often a pretty fine line between the revs being too low
go make much power and bogging, and a little too high and spinning the 
tires, so they're not always the best at the dragstrip, where a lot of people 
just want to sidestep the clutch and go. On the highway, they're 
damn hard to beat. A modded 1.8T may get a jump on you if you don't
downshift, but once it gets into the upper rpms, you'll just drive
right by em. 
ian


----------



## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (Daemon42)*

Yea, the stage III with some other mods will be pretty good on the highway. Nice explanations for everyone so they know what we're talking about







The Mercedes blowers are AMG tuned as well, as the compressed models are made by AMG. The guys there really know there stuff, and they make thier cars comfortable but with extreme performance in mind. 
Anyways VR6's are great engines, just have to harness thier power and get it to the ground.
I still want a VR6 with RWD... imagine a GTI with RWD (independent rear suspension obviously)... god it would be sweet!


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (Daemon42)*

quote:[HR][/HR]And it's true.. Centrifugal superchargers aren't linear, they're exponential.[HR][/HR]​Oh well, I goofed on the math term. Basically, the faster you go the harder you accelerate. It feels smooth instead of the automatic throw back in the seat of a turbo. I confuse terms easily


----------



## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (leebro61)*

Actually AMG does not make their own superchargers, they were designed by a japanese company for Mercedes.


----------



## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (SCVR6)*

Whered ya hear that from?


----------



## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

/me really wishes he wasn't leasing.
...Hmmm... I wonder how VW would feel about me bolting this badboy onto a leased car...
I just wet my pants. I WANT it.


----------



## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (^Doogie)*

Don't worry about it, I bolted one on to my car. 
Also the company that builds the supercharger is called IHI for the SL 55. Quote from Car & Driver "Made by IHI, the belt-driven supercharger is of the Lysholm type, with a Teflon-coated screw-style impeller delivering boost up to 11.6 psi. Quietly, too. No supercharger whine. " This is a Japanese company that built the superchargers for Mercedes.
Here's their contact info
IHI R&D
Materials Technology Department
Tokyo Technical Center
3-1-15 Toyosu, Kotoku
Tokyo 135, Japan
Tel: (81) 03-35343393; Fax: (81) 03-35343388



[Modified by SCVR6, 10:17 PM 1-19-2003]


----------



## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (SCVR6)*

Yea, sounds right. Thanks for the info. Yea I think they designed it for them, but AMG has thier mark on it. Japenese and german engineers are the best. I think it has to do with the culture and how they are raised into the world. Its really qiute amazing. I amprobably going to take a course studying it and maybe it'll help me to know how they differ








Wow, car&driver actually having some useful info


----------



## mtrainTurbo (Aug 16, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

Don't worry about modding a leased car. Lots of us do it.







THe nice thing is in my case I will probably get another Jetta, so all the mods go right over to the next car.







Platinum gray, baby.


----------



## BORA20VT (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (mtrainVR6)*

I just don't like that big drop in power at 5700rpm...its so uncharacteristic to a centrifugal blower. I know VF chimed in on it, but it seems the timing was pulled....perhaps their wasn't enough fueling after 5700rpm to just keep the power building...dunno. I know these are preliminary numbers and the software still needs to be finalized but it'd be nice to see a smooth line up top....where it matters.


----------



## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (mtrainVR6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Don't worry about modding a leased car. Lots of us do it.







THe nice thing is in my case I will probably get another Jetta, so all the mods go right over to the next car.







Platinum gray, baby.







[HR][/HR]​/me tries to brush the horned little mtrainVR6 off of his left shoulder. STOP!! STOP THE VOICES!
...Okay so now I'm over the leasing issue, vf, can you provide us with install instructions so I can get a feel for how intrusive/non-intrusive this would be, including the chip update?
Cheers.


----------



## bradleyland (Aug 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (BORA20VT)*

I've heard mention that the stock injectors are at their limit. I also thought it was a bit uncharacteristic. I'd invest in porting and upgraded injectors to smooth that out.
Care to comment VF?


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (bradleyland)*

You would need a chip tuned for larger injectors (enter stage 2 and 3) or the car would absolutely choke.


----------



## BadassVW (Oct 16, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

Assume NO (ie Drag launches) side-stepping clutch , though occasional power-shifting may occur...








Do you recommend a clutch upgrade to go with your package? 
If so, what (make/model) have you had positive experience with?
Oh, the temptation!!!


----------



## BORA20VT (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (BadassVW)*

Nic was very kind to answer my similar post on page 2 (i think) of this thread, saying that it was the software trying to adapt and that they would make sure it was perfect before the official launch of the product. He also said that they would have new dyno's of the top end hopefully smoothed out. 
Nic, just wondering if you've had the chance to revisit the top end stumble and if its been cured yet....It just looks like if the line had remained constant before the hiccup at 5700rpm, it would have pulled like a $hit out of a monkey's A$$ past 250hp.....maybe they need to run just "slightly" less boost to keep it smooth with the stock injectors....dunno!?










[Modified by BORA20VT, 4:15 PM 1-21-2003]


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (BORA20VT)*

We are working on that top end in the next couple of days in time for the European Car photoshoot at the end of this week.


----------



## Pocket Empty (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

quote:[HR][/HR]We are working on that top end in the next couple of days in time for the European Car photoshoot at the end of this week.[HR][/HR]​If we had your supercharger kit installed in our cars can we expect the same power gains? a +/- x amount of hp figures would be appreciated. Last thing I want is spending $4000 to find out I only have 50hp power gains instead of the claimed 80. Also can we expect the same improved top-end improvements if you do get to reduce the amount of performance drop above 5700rpm?


----------



## Nickel98 (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Pocket Empty)*

quote:[HR][/HR]If we had your supercharger kit installed in our cars can we expect the same power gains? a +/- x amount of hp figures would be appreciated. Last thing I want is spending $4000 to find out I only have 50hp power gains instead of the claimed 80. [HR][/HR]​I would hazard to say that the test car would represent the low end of the spectrum. It was COMPLETELY stock, and running on California 91 octane. Unless your car has some serious problems, it should run nearly 250 at the wheels. Others could possibly see larger gains with better grade gas, upgraded exhausts, etc..


----------



## Pocket Empty (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Nickel98)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I would hazard to say that the test car would represent the low end of the spectrum. It was COMPLETELY stock, and running on California 91 octane. Unless your car has some serious problems, it should run nearly 250 at the wheels. Others could possibly see larger gains with better grade gas, upgraded exhausts, etc...[HR][/HR]​How do you know? I wanna hear the right facts from themselves. Again I do not want to pay $4000 and take it for a dyno test and see I'm not getting that much power increase.


[Modified by Pocket Empty, 1:19 PM 1-22-2003]


----------



## MD-82 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Pocket Empty)*

-How do we know that the car was stock?
They said it already.
-How do we know that it was running on 91 Octane?
They said it already.
-Why should your car run 250 at the wheels?
Because VF said that preliminary! results yielded just that. 250 at the wheels.
-Why would better Octane and upgraded exhaust and intake better performance?
Because it's nature's law.
All in all. VF said about all they can say already. If you want an extra guarantee on this forum, you may get it. But it's still not going to apsolutely guarantee you will get 250 at the wheels. That you will get when you actually buy the product. That will be the warranty form..........3 year mind you ! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Xander


----------



## Pocket Empty (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (MD-82)*

If I'm looking at getting this thing I sure know all the stuff posted here and on their website. No one can answer my question but VF Engineering. So I do not want people here make smart comments if they do not even have this product installed in their cars and have done dyno tests for themselves to see that indeed if I spend this much money I should expect similar gains... I'm sorry but I do not know VF Engineering so well to know how reliable their dyno charts are for the 24V either. 

quote:[HR][/HR]-How do we know that the car was stock?
They said it already.
-How do we know that it was running on 91 Octane?
They said it already.
-Why should your car run 250 at the wheels?
Because VF said that preliminary! results yielded just that. 250 at the wheels.
-Why would better Octane and upgraded exhaust and intake better performance?
Because it's nature's law.
All in all. VF said about all they can say already. If you want an extra guarantee on this forum, you may get it. But it's still not going to apsolutely guarantee you will get 250 at the wheels. That you will get when you actually buy the product. That will be the warranty form..........3 year mind you ! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Xander[HR][/HR]​


----------



## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (Pocket Empty)*

Why would their dyno be any less reliable than anyone else's? 
Frankly, a lot of the dyno's individuals do, worry me more because they may
choose not to factor in the SAE corrections, and use inflated drivetrain losses
to estimate crank hp etc.. VF has been very up front about how and what they're
testing. VF stage 1, on stock 24V, 91 octane, Dynojet dyno, and 13% drivetrain loss
for estimating crank.
Sounds to me like you're just in the "wait and see" mode, while intimating that
VF is being misleading or dishonest somehow. In this business, at this pricepoint,
there is no good reason to inflate your numbers. If you do so, you'll get torn apart
in forums like this one, which VF-eng (formerly Z-eng USA) knows as well as we do.
ian


----------



## vtechTHIS (Nov 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Pocket Empty)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I would hazard to say that the test car would represent the low end of the spectrum. It was COMPLETELY stock, and running on California 91 octane. Unless your car has some serious problems, it should run nearly 250 at the wheels. Others could possibly see larger gains with better grade gas, upgraded exhausts, etc...
How do you know? I wanna hear the right facts from themselves. Again I do not want to pay $4000 and take it for a dyno test and see I'm not getting that much power increase.

[Modified by Pocket Empty, 1:19 PM 1-22-2003][HR][/HR]​ how does he know?? well it is his car there genius.


----------



## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (vtechTHIS)*

Nik has never over inflated his gains on any kit, First off you can't guarantee a specific whp # because you need to do a baseline dyno before and after. Every motor is not the same! Some cars put out more power than others from the factory. "PocketEmpty" your the type of guy who would female puppy dog an moan about his car putting out 245whp if it didn't hit 250







. And then complain your cars only getting 20 miles per gallon yet you gained 60+whp to the car at only 6psi. Any time you add FI to a motor you gas mileage is going to suffer! Do you buy a 996TT because of the HP or the performance? More HP needs more fuel, think about it


----------



## Pocket Empty (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (SCVR6)*

I dont' really know you and I'm sure you don't know me either. I never said I expect the same fuel consumption with a supercharger. Second I never said I won't be happy if I get 245 on at the wheels instead of 250. Read above please before you make any assumptions. It's a straight question. If you did notice I asked for a +/- hp power figures from what they claim. Again we are talking about $4000 here. 
quote:[HR][/HR] "PocketEmpty" your the type of guy who would female puppy dog an moan about his car putting out 245whp if it didn't hit 250







. And then complain your cars only getting 20 miles per gallon yet you gained 60+whp to the car at only 6psi. Any time you add FI to a motor you gas mileage is going to suffer! Do you buy a 996TT because of the HP or the performance? More HP needs more fuel, think about it







[HR][/HR]​


----------



## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (Pocket Empty)*



> I dont' really know you and I'm sure you don't know me either. I never said I expect the same fuel consumption with a supercharger. Second I never said I won't be happy if I get 245 on at the wheels instead of 250. Read above please before you make any assumptions. It's a straight question. If you did notice I asked for a +/- hp power figures from what they claim. Again we are talking about $4000 here.
> No I don't know you! I never said you expected the same fuel consumption just commenting to your question on page 4 "How is the fuel consumption after installing the kit?" And I don't see the car loosing 20whp from a little dip at 5700RPM's. These numbers are pretty concrete, and tell me what else your going to buy for 4000 with a warranty and no tuning issues. And I did read above and everything has been answered for you
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Pocket Empty)*

dear Pocket Empty:
Just to iterate, VF-Engineering is formerly Z-Engineering USA also known as Nik Saran Racing (UK). We have been supercharging the VR6 since 1997 in London, UK. Having supercharged several hundred VR6s around the world, we feel that we have the credentials to be taken seriously.
Nickel 98 is indeed the owner of the 24v test car and has given a true representation of the facts.
There are variations in engines but it is highly unusual to see a 20-30hp variation.
With GIAC software, a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty and a product that is 100% made in California, you are in good hands. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
FYI we are currently supercharging the Audi 4.2 V8, Porsche 996 and soon a Diablo.


----------



## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

i just wish it wasnt 4K
just under 3K would be sweet, but yah you guys gota get paid for your skills.


----------



## Pocket Empty (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

Thank you for your response. Another question that I had before but seemed like it got lost somewhere in here was the installation.. How straight forward is it for a local tunning shop to do this job? 
quote:[HR][/HR]dear Pocket Empty:
Just to iterate, VF-Engineering is formerly Z-Engineering USA also known as Nik Saran Racing (UK). We have been supercharging the VR6 since 1997 in London, UK. Having supercharged several hundred VR6s around the world, we feel that we have the credentials to be taken seriously.
Nickel 98 is indeed the owner of the 24v test car and has given a true representation of the facts.
There are variations in engines but it is highly unusual to see a 20-30hp variation.
With GIAC software, a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty and a product that is 100% made in California, you are in good hands. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
FYI we are currently supercharging the Audi 4.2 V8, Porsche 996 and soon a Diablo.[HR][/HR]​

[Modified by Pocket Empty, 6:58 AM 1-23-2003]


----------



## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (Pocket Empty)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Thank you for your response. Another question that I had before but seemed like it got lost somewhere in here was the installation.. How straight forward is it for a local tunning shop to do this job? 
[HR][/HR]​I believe the installation time estimates are based on a DIY effort. The Mk3 installation is a breeze because
there's not a lot of plumbing. 4-8 hours depending on what you've got done to the intake already.
Mk4 12/24V requires moving more stuff around and routing pipes under past the radiator and such so 
I'd guess it'll probably take about twice as long. I believe it states that no special tools are required
and I can believe that. I've de-installed a supercharger beside the road with a small bag of tools. 
Only thing new for me on the VF kit is the oil feed. 
ian


----------



## MD-82 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Pocket Empty)*

I wanted to second Pocket Empty's question. I don't live in the states, that's why. I have the equivalent of a Golf VR6 4Motion. A European VR6 implanted in a platform that's nearly the same as the Golf.
I've just learned that you this company/package has a lot of links to Europe. The origins of the company, the history of tuning VR6's in the UK and the Swiss blower (if I'm not mistaken). So maybe someone at vf-engineering can answer this for me.
In Europe there is a supercharger for the VR6 (in the Leon at least) which gives some 290 BHP. About what your kit makes. The swiss even sell it from the dealership like this. The go to ABT for tuning before going to the dealer. I've included 2 links. One that gives the ABT engine tuning option and the other is the swiss dealer sold car. There you can also see a picture of the mod. 
Do You have any knowledge that this is based on the same supercharger? Or if not would - you based on your knowledge and experience - think it is possible to install your kit on my automobile? If so, I guess the car has to be there for you to upgrade the chip right? Lots of question I know. I don't expect an answer to all, but just so I can contiue acting like a 8 year old on x-mas morning







, or go back to my usual self








Xander
http://www.abt-sportsline.de/produkte_frameset.asp?lang=gb&e1=2&e2=6&e3=63&s1=3&Sc=1 
http://www.leonclub.xtd.pl/cupra-kompressor.htm


----------



## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (MD-82)*

I've never heard of that ABT Supercharger before now, but the small photo
on one of those pages looks a lot like a Z-eng supercharger. It certainly
doesn't have quite the look of a Vortech. The Z-eng ZR2 unit might be able to
generate the 290 hp as it has smaller pulleys and a cogged belt. 
We never got it in the US because of a patent dispute with another
company that feels they own the whole concept of cogged belts on
superchargers. We've seen a modified Z-eng S/C put down up to 258whp
which would be about 295hp at the crank. (13% drivetrain loss).
That Seat Leon is an awesome looking car, btw. 
ian


[Modified by Daemon42, 10:27 AM 1-23-2003]


----------



## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (Daemon42)*

I believe Z-Designed a kit for ABT for the MK4 in europe.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (MD-82)*

Good research skills!
Whilst we (Z-Eng USA) were designing our own kit for the US MK4 12v using the Z-Engineering supercharger, Z-Eng (Swiss) had already made a kit for the Euro 24v 4 Motion and were selling it to ABT who rebadged it. It retailed for approx US$7500. For commerical and technical reasons, we (Z-Eng USA) refused to sell this kit in the USA and ended up spending 2 years on our own kit which we eventually completed and sold an initial batch.
In Sept 02 we dropped the Z-Eng product line for many reasons and changed our name to VF-Engineering. We have been spending the last 3 months designing 12 new supercharger kits based on Vortech units. One such kit is the Euro 24v 4 motion kit and this will be launched in Europe in March. We have also completed the MK3 VR6 and US MK4 12v VR6 and have exchanged almost all of our old MK4 Z-kits to the new VF-E design. We also have an upgrade program for old MK3 VR6 Z-kits to the new VF-E.
Our new VF-E kit has many advantages, the main ones being the upgradeability, perfected software and 3 yr warranty. The Swiss 4 motion kit has software"issues" and takes over 2 days to fit, with relocation of many parts, hence ABT would only sell it with in-house installation. However our Vortech kit for the 4 Motion is a simple do-it-yourself 8 hours true-the-the letter bolt-on.
To upgrade the chip, you can send your ECU to one of our UK dealers who has an electronics dept: Regal Autosport in Southampton. The ECU modification is simple and can be reverted to stock at anytime by the user. The chip is a plug and play item. 
-Nik


[Modified by vf-engineering, 1:16 AM 1-24-2003]


----------



## gimpstang (Oct 6, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

I for one want to thank you guys for working so hard on this kit for us. As far as I know you will be the first company to make a supercharger kit for the 24V. There are a lot of us out here skimping and saving for this kit because, well, 250 hp sounds like a whole lot of fun







Thanks again from those of us could be customers in the future http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

Stock R32 versus Blown 24v 1/4 mile and 0-60 timing slips (independent testing by Sport Compact Car) to go up on our site this week.


----------



## BORA20VT (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

Thats a little unfair power-wise...don't you think??


----------



## MD-82 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (BORA20VT)*

VF-engineering,
even if I can't come up with the dough, I'd like to say thatnks for the GREAT support you are providing to all of us. I know many can call this PR also, but if that's so there aren't many other companies even PR'ing anymore ! Even for this small guy who lives 1500 miles to the south of Florida on a 40-mile long tropical island you find the time to give me a thorough answer to all my questions.
Once again thanks......... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Alfonso T. (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

Vf-Engineering:
Is there any options or differences between your kit for a 24V with/without 4Motion?
If so, which are the expected performance differences and cost for the 4Motion one?
There will be some R32 around soon, and I have to be ready








Saludos!
quote:[HR][/HR]Good research skills!
Whilst we (Z-Eng USA) were designing our own kit for the US MK4 12v using the Z-Engineering supercharger, Z-Eng (Swiss) had already made a kit for the Euro 24v 4 Motion and were selling it to ABT who rebadged it. It retailed for approx US$7500. For commerical and technical reasons, we (Z-Eng USA) refused to sell this kit in the USA and ended up spending 2 years on our own kit which we eventually completed and sold an initial batch.
In Sept 02 we dropped the Z-Eng product line for many reasons and changed our name to VF-Engineering. We have been spending the last 3 months designing 12 new supercharger kits based on Vortech units. One such kit is the Euro 24v 4 motion kit and this will be launched in Europe in March. We have also completed the MK3 VR6 and US MK4 12v VR6 and have exchanged almost all of our old MK4 Z-kits to the new VF-E design. We also have an upgrade program for old MK3 VR6 Z-kits to the new VF-E.
Our new VF-E kit has many advantages, the main ones being the upgradeability, perfected software and 3 yr warranty. The Swiss 4 motion kit has software"issues" and takes over 2 days to fit, with relocation of many parts, hence ABT would only sell it with in-house installation. However our Vortech kit for the 4 Motion is a simple do-it-yourself 8 hours true-the-the letter bolt-on.
To upgrade the chip, you can send your ECU to one of our UK dealers who has an electronics dept: Regal Autosport in Southampton. The ECU modification is simple and can be reverted to stock at anytime by the user. The chip is a plug and play item. 
-Nik

[Modified by vf-engineering, 1:16 AM 1-24-2003][HR][/HR]​


----------



## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (Alfonso T.)*

There shouldn't be any difference between the kit for a 2.8L 24V VR6 GTI and 2.8L 24V VR6 Golf 4motion.. 
The haldex controller is pretty much self sufficient and lives near the haldex box at the rear.
But that's not really what you're talking about.
It's between the 3.2L 24V VR6 in the R32 and the 2.8L.
Obviously there's no way to know what the performance of a VF-eng blower on an
R32 is as there aren't any kits out yet. If you went by percentage increase in
displacement alone an equivalent Stage I kit should make about 320hp at the crank. 
But it may not be quite that simple, as the R32 has higher compression so it may not
be possible to push as much boost. There may also be fueling issues as there
was with the Stage 1 Mk4 12V VR6 kit which limited it to 250hp before having
to going to Stage II which includes new injectors. My guess is, the R32's stage II
will require bigger injectors and perhaps a copper head spacer to lower the compression
a bit. 
Otherwise the kit should be pretty much the same.. except for the R32's much larger
washer fluid resevoir which probably can't be relocated to the normal spot on the
otherside. So you'll have to drop back to the Mk4 12V's smaller fluid resevoir. 
ian


----------



## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (Daemon42)*









coming APR 03








[Modified by SCVR6, 9:46 PM 1-27-2003]


[Modified by SCVR6, 9:47 PM 1-27-2003]


----------



## GTIDane (Feb 4, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vtechTHIS)*

I still need to get the car. hands down VR6 blowing 10 psi hast to be the damn near sickest set up for the GTI. I want a 300 hp monstor. peace


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Alfonso T.)*

We believe our 4 Motion kit will be the same as our US MK4 24v kit except for the software. The performance numbers will be the same except you must take into account that we tune with the lowest grade fuel available: Californian 91 octane. So most people will see higher numbers than we publish.
Our R32 kit will be tested in California and as such completion is dependant upon our test car being delivered to us as soon as possible. At the moment it looks like it will be delayed to as far as September and we have no power or product info until then.
Regarding our 24v. We will be publishing overlaid time plots from European Car Magazine's speed measuring equipment which showed:
0-60 in 5.99 secs 1/4 mile in 14.51 at 98.7 mph - VF-Eng Stage 1 SC 24v VR6
0-60 in 6.45 secs 1/4 mile in 14.78 at 94.6 mph - bone stock R32 
Both cars were driven by the magazines test driver and tested on the same piece of track at California Speedway in Fontana, CA. last Friday within hours of each other.


----------



## vwericvw (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

This is incredibly dissapointing. I really like the vf-charger, and i'm sure its great on a roll, but those times are horrible. First of all, the R32 is running right about the same time and trap speed as my 24v with AEM CAI as the only mod. And your supercharged 24v is trapping only 4mph faster than me and only and a whoping 3tenths faster in the quarter mile.
Here's hoping for a crappy test driver, high elevation, and crappy/hot track conditions.
At this point I wouldn't get a vf-kit. I'd rather spend the $4k on lsd, clutch, flywheel, cams, chip, and suspension. 
The saddest part is that JoeM29 ran a 14.4 in the 1/4 with just chip and exhaust on his 24v and no weight loss. I can just see the 1.8t guys coming in and saying how crappy the 24v SC is and how much better their apr stage 3 kit is. be prepared.
Please tell me, was the vf-charger the only mod on the car? Any suspension, motor mounts, better tires, weight loss. I want the timeslips or at least 60ft times if you have them also.

ERiC


----------



## omeezy (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vwericvw)*

Whoa Eric chil out man. First of all the track that the car was tested was in cali and if you ask any of us Cali guys such as myself Bakersfield or Meatwad or anyone else who has gone to track, we'll all confirm that the times out here have been crappy in our cars for some reason compared to you east coasters. Matter of fact I beleive i have currently have the fastest 24v in cali (on the vortex at least) and the best i can squeeze out is a 15.3 which incidently was made on that same track where this test was conducted. I thinkt that track may be crappy plus we have 91 octane fuel and lately a lot more heat than you guys have gotten so that may be why our times out here suck so much. So when i look at those times I'm quite impressed because he's running about half a sec faster than me and I'm by NO MEANS a bad driver, just ask the the gutted turboed civic i beat lastnight. This is also why I think the GLI that Motortrend tested had such poor times, it was tested here In Southern California. So all i'm saying is don't let those posted times discourage you, plus I'm sure someone who is more familiar with the car like you or I could have gotten a little better times outa it. And if they take that car to say Englishtown or somehwere on your side of the country i have no doubt WHAT SO EVER that the car will easilly run 14 flat and very possibly 13s.
And just a word of advice to Nik Saran, perhaps you guys should try another test of the car at Pomona Speedway which is not only the nicest track around but one of the premier tracks in the country. I think you'll probally see better times there.


----------



## BORA20VT (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (omeezy)*

This is dissapointing for me too....being I have an R32 on order. However....I'll chalk this up to bad driver and/or bad conditions. The tested times for the R32, done by a German Magazine were as follows.
0-100kph = 6.1sec (Being this is 62mph, 0-60 would perhaps be in the 5.9sec range)
0-130kph = 9.6sec
0-160kph = 14.4sec (160kph is about 100mph)
0-200kph = 26.0sec (124mph in 26sec is no joke, people)
From these numbers you'd calculate a 1/4 mile time around [email protected], and that is pretty much what a car with that Power/weight ratio should do. Those numbers obtained by EC or SCC or whoever conducted the testing, are definately in the LOW LOW side. And I don't want to be the guy to bring the 1.8T into this, much less the Stage3 cars....but a 1.8T with STOCK turbo and full bolt-on will trap over 99-102mph and they are putting down a hair over 200whp...210whp TOPS. For 250whp....you'd at least need to see a higher trap, I'd understand a poor ET due to lack of traction but 250whp in a 2900-3000lb car = much more than 98mph trap speeds. RETEST damn-it








Peter
PS> "Something is rotten in the kingdom of Denmark"


----------



## aavwannabe (May 10, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (BORA20VT)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
0-100kph = 6.1sec (Being this is 62mph, 0-60 would perhaps be in the 5.9sec range)
[HR][/HR]​keep in mind that the car is moving at this point....


----------



## BORA20VT (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (aavwannabe)*

This is nothing against Nic or VF....I think you guys have been GREAT, both with keeping us updated and by bringing us great products that were lacking in the market.
But I find these numbers a little alarming. Just doesn't make sense. I believe a SC VR6-24 2.8L would trap around 4-5mph higher than a stock R32, after all it has a 50hp advantage. So if we say the R32 traps around 98mph with a competent driver in adequate conditions, and the STG 1 24V around 102-103mph....THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE. I know "it is what it is", but the information at hand just doesn't add up.... sorry!


----------



## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (aavwannabe)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
0-100kph = 6.1sec (Being this is 62mph, 0-60 would perhaps be in the 5.9sec range)
keep in mind that the car is moving at this point....







[HR][/HR]​And your point? Assuming constant acceleration it takes another couple tenths to 
reach 62mph from from 60mph. That's just basic physics. It's actually most likely falling off a 
bit up there, so takes even longer. But assuming linear accelleration, it's almost exactly 5.9 
seconds to 60mph based on 6.1 to reach 62mph. Two euro rags have gotten down 
into the 6.1 range (6.1 and 6.17 I recall).
Anyway, I agree that the times tested in California are very poor.. for both cars. 
Note that both cars have to shift to 3rd gear to get to 60mph, and to 4th gear 
to finish the quarter so that means the driver skill is a major factor.. but still,
the trap speeds are a major puzzle. There are chipped 1.8t's running almost 96mph
through the traps up here a mile above sea level at Bandimere. And they're making
nowhere near the quoted 240 or 280hp of these two cars. Elevation's not a 
factor at that track as it's only 150 feet above sea level.. Traction obviously isn't
a factor for the R32 although it very well could be for the VF-eng car. I've found
that it's a real pain in the butt to launch with a centrifugal supercharger. I'd love
to see the actual timeslips to see the 60 foot times. Perhaps that 91 octane
fuel really hurts that much.
It's going to cause a major furor when the R32's times are published.. sigh. 
ian


[Modified by Daemon42, 11:15 AM 1-28-2003]


----------



## aavwannabe (May 10, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Daemon42)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
And your point? Assuming constant acceleration it takes another couple tenths to 
reach 62mph from from 60mph. That's just basic physics. It's actually most likely falling off a 
bit up there, so takes even longer. But assuming linear accelleration, it's almost exactly 5.9 
seconds to 60mph based on 6.1 to reach 62mph. Two euro rags have gotten down 
into the 6.1 range (6.1 and 6.17 I recall).
[HR][/HR]​uhmm... "and your point ?" (hint: its exactly the same as mine....) schmuck







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (aavwannabe)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
uhmm... "and your point ?" (hint: its exactly the same as mine....) schmuck







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif [HR][/HR]​What the hell is your problem? Try explaining what you're upset about with something other
than a series of offensive emoticons. 
You originally replied to aavwannabe's assertion with a screwy icon and I simply pointed
out that there was nothing screwy about the original statement. So again, what's your point?
ian


[Modified by Daemon42, 11:28 AM 1-28-2003]


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (BORA20VT)*

Its seems everyone is forgetting we were using 91 octane and running in 85 degrees F. Totally stock conditions.
It is very subjective to calculate estimated timing numbers based on horsepower without including real life condions. 
Now, if everyone who seems to be disappointed in these independent numbers, brought their cars to an atmospherically controlled environment and lined them all up I would be surprised if any of the numbers thrown around on this thread would actually hold up relative to the comparisons being made here.
1/4 mile comparisons performed in different geographical locations with different qualities of fuels, tires, clutches, drivers, tracks, wind speeds, atm. temps, are so un-constructive and techincally have no basis for scientific comparison. We are a little surprised to see how seriously they are taken considering all the facts.
BTW, if you saw the magazine's driver slalom these cars, I am certain we would see retractions of the statements made about him.
What we have provided is a true back to back comparison. It is unsubjective to pit your numbers against ours unless they were derived under the exact same conditions. Try to keep it in perspective.


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## vwericvw (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

I agree that its nice that the 24v SC competed nicely against the R32. My question is, why didn't you bring a stock 24v out there, try to achieved the same or better 60ft that the SC 24v and show how much faster the 24v SC is. I'm sure if you did this the stock 24v would run 15.3 at best and probably more like 15.5.
Oh and by the way, if the stock injectors can supply enough fuel you should really raise the rev limiter to 7000rpms or 7200rpms like the GIAC chip does on an NA 24v. This really helps take more advantage of the 6speed and full usuable power of the 24v.
Please don't take my first post the wrong way. Can you please post the timeslips so we can see just how bad the 60fts were or do you have that data? Also, what is the elevation where you ran the cars?
ERiC


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## BORA20VT (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

I agree with you that the conditions are huge variables and that they alone make it very difficult to compare different times taken with different cars, locations, conditions, yada yada yada.....
However it would be nice to have some sort of "yard-stick" or something to base these "subjective" numbers too. Like somebody else said a stock 24V 2.8L....anything we could grasp as a comparison. Cause in this case the R32s times are very "up in the air" as are the VF-E car....it makes it dificult for us to get a good idea for either car's performance in this case considering the above numbers "seem" off due to the less than ideal conditions. Your point, I believe, is to show how much faster the 24V VR6 can be made with your S/C kit....it beat a stock R32, as it should! But I don't think that came as too much of a surprise....although the comparison alone of both cars is extrememly interesting cause they are both novelties and exciting cars at this point. However it would be nice to give us something to guage those "comparatively poor" numbers by. A stock car would have been great. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## aavwannabe (May 10, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Daemon42)*

erm... first off... i AM aavwannabe.... i was RE affirming the assertion ....
P.S. read the definition for assertion... thats all it was... im jumping on you becasuse YOU misunderstood what i was saying...


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## aavwannabe (May 10, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Its seems everyone is forgetting we were using 91 octane and running in 85 degrees F. [HR][/HR]​in all seriousness and fairness... your first post was a picture of the engine with the blower.... 
i, like many other people that dont read vortex for eveyones ******** replys, arent going to read through 5 pages of "







's", "







's", and other people one line posts about how "sweet" it is. I didnt see any numbers in there..... and im not knocking it either... 
and from what i have heard, stock 24v's are pinging on 91 octane... i cant imagine what its like on boost... how much timing is being pulled ?
on a side note, you guys should come down to florida and do this... we got 93 here and its been in average 60 degrees here for the last few months.....







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## aavwannabe (May 10, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

additionally.... if you are doing all this tuning on 91.... whats it going to be like with 93 in the tank ?
i know it probably wont make too much of a difference, but it may smooth things out for you guys... i know cali has 91... but most other states have 93 some have 94.... at least test it with some 93 at some point


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## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vwericvw)*

quote:[HR][/HR] Also, what is the elevation where you ran the cars?
ERiC[HR][/HR]​At California speedway elevation is not a factor. It is in the inland valley, I lived in Ontario next to it, maybe 1000 feet.
The 1/4 mile track is not that impressive. I was there in early January, and it didnt strike me as a great track. I agree with what someone else had already suggested, Pomona CA is a REAL drag strip, California speedway has a drag strip in the parking lot, not the best of setups. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
Now, that said, I dont understand how there could be that amount of power being made with that 1/4 time and trap. I want to stay on topic and say that at this same very track with the high temperatures and not very great track conditions, a stock 337 (which has the 6 speed, this is why I am mentioning it) ran a 15.1 there repeatedly.
Any other people that run at CA speedway got timeslips? I just dont see how a car making that much power isnt running a 14.0 or so, was it not running properly or anything?
My next car will be the 24v next year, so this is why I am interested. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

im getting sick reading some of these post.
especialy this 5th page.
its obvious a lot of you have no idea what your talking about.
i wish you guys would just zip it with your ignorance. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
keep up the good work vf-engineering, ill be buying a kit when i save up enough. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


[Modified by bakersfield_gti, 12:49 PM 1-28-2003]


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

Thankyou for all the comments. One thing that we did not make clear which we should have mentioned, was that both cars were not timed by the official Cal Spdwy timing traps. European Car / SCC used their own computer and timing equipment, which is what they use for all the cars that they test.
Once again, we published figures to give a comparison between our stage 1 and a stock R32, not as a means to say how fast our kit is compared to other cars (as we do not believe in 1/4 mie testing. Also our car is running stock everything other than the SC.


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## vwericvw (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

I know you guys have never like 1/4 mile testing, but i think you have to agree that people want it. If you want, do 0-130mph testing against a SC 24v and stock 24v. Show each segment of time:
0-10mph
0-20mph
0-30mph
etc....
That will show how much the charger pulls up top, because i know it pulls like crazy. The more load the better. 100-130 an SC 24v will walk a stock one hard.
ERiC


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## omeezy (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vwericvw)*

Well personally the best times I've been able to squeeze out of my car on that track has been a 15.3 and I had 100octane in the tank. Like I said, I'm by no means a slow shifter. But to be honest and I really don't mean anyharm when I say this but European car/ Sport compact car magazines like most other magazine that heavily focus on the aftermarket have never really been known for having the quickest times on their test. i've read several articles on cars they've tested where i see the times and sorta go woooow who on earth was driving?? but anyway, i think it would be all around better if you VF retested the car either on the east coast or at a real strip like Pomona here in Cali. And if they compared it to a stock 24v GTI. I have driven that 24v car and I know its capapble of better times than that of which are posted.


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (omeezy)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Matter of fact I beleive i have currently have the fastest 24v in cali (on the vortex at least)[HR][/HR]​I'd like to challenge that.


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## omeezy (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (bakersfield_gti)*

Well come on down and challenge it then buddy boy...matter of fact weren't you supposed to come down here a whille ago?


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (omeezy)*

we will work something out soon.


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## RITDR (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (bakersfield_gti)*

oooooohhhhh. fight fight fight!


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (RITDR)*

this will be a drivers thing cuz our cars are the same...


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## RITDR (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (bakersfield_gti)*

That should lead to a great smack talking / excuse post. "If I would have done this then ........." or " the only reason you beat me is .............."







good times


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (RITDR)*

I dont know if this is an appropriate place to ask, but i notice that the stage 3 is about 10psi or so, now i've also read that this supercharger can run up to 20psi, now i know this would be death for a otherwise stock motor, but if you built up the motor and had proper fueling, can this supercharger indeed pump 20psi into the motor or is there something i am missing.
b/c i read alot that people say that @6psi the charger is working at 60% of its max?? how is 6psi 60% of 20psi? Also i am very interested in supercharging/turbo charging, can someone point me into the direction to find ACCURATE information about both of these, such as books or something.
thanks alot guys i appreciate the help, i would really LOVE to see some videos of the various stages of charger tuning ripping it up that would be AWSOME and VF....I think that would be a great way to enhance the market for your charger.
Good luck to anyone that gets this system, it looks/sounds awsome...just one thing...knock a few $$$ off the price~!!!!!


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## Nickel98 (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Banditt007)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I dont know if this is an appropriate place to ask, but i notice that the stage 3 is about 10psi or so, now i've also read that this supercharger can run up to 20psi, now i know this would be death for a otherwise stock motor, but if you built up the motor and had proper fueling, can this supercharger indeed pump 20psi into the motor or is there something i am missing.[HR][/HR]​The charger is definitely stout. I'm not sure of the maximum upper limit of boost for this particular charger, but it is capable of pushing more air. From my conversations with Nik, the limit for boost is really our compression ratio and ability to fuel the charger. If you really wanted to throw money at it and lower compression, obtain even bigger injectors, and have custom software done the sky is the limit. Stage III is just the reasonable limit for a bolt-on kit for a stock motor.


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Nickel98)*

Thanks for the reply, I was also wondering if there is a way to hook this system up to an FMIC istead of the air to water that they try to push....i guess you can do anything w/ lots of money but i'm talking w/o having to do some serious work.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (Banditt007)*

Unless you really really want the look of an FMIC, the a/w is prolly a better option as the piping would seem to be alot simpler and alot shorter than the fmic --> alot less pressure loss. If VF can keep the air cool with the charger cooler they have then I dont see any reason to change it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (leebro61)*

Depends if we're talking Mk3 or Mk4.
On the Mk4, the FMIC really makes sense as the piping is already running across the front 
of the engine so you should be able to just stick an intercooler there somewhere along
the way.
On a Mk3, the piping is about 24 inches from blower to throttle body. 
Adding a FMIC, you'd have to turn the outlet around 180 degrees, run 
it down under the radiator, through the intercooler, 180 degrees again, back
across the car and then back up through the same space you came and on 
up to the throttle body. There just isn't room for that. As it is, the hole through 
the fender is already occupied by the filter/intake. 
I've seen a supercharged Ford 5.0 powered Volvo 740 running a air/water intercooler
and it made about 600hp. There's nothing wrong with the technology.
The advantage VF has using water/air IC for all models is well.. it's *one* way
for all models. The only variation is the length of the coolant lines. 
Still not sure how they plan to circulate it though. 
ian


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (Daemon42)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Depends if we're talking Mk3 or Mk4.
[HR][/HR]​Ehhh good point. Kinda forgot I was lurking in the 24v forum








Also, I had never really looked at the VF mk4 piping. I do know however that EIP's mk3 vortech plumbing is about 8 miles long...
I'd post a link but their page is down


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## Eric24v (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (leebro61)*

Im curious to see who has all ordered a SC


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## DERFahrenFuhrer43 (Oct 25, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (24v-VRooom6)*

me...kinda well err not really damn evil credit card company wont let me dig myself into debt! maybe i should just reason with them


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (DERFahrenFuhrer43)*

I've got one on order.. but the catch is.. It's for a Mk3 VR6.
ian


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## Pocket Empty (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (24v-VRooom6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Im curious to see who has all ordered a SC[HR][/HR]​I'm interested... But I will have to wait until I have paid off my car in 3.5 years and then decide in which direction I want to go for.


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## borax2 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

quote:[HR][/HR]When is the euro version for RHD drives to be released, is ns-racing the distributor in the UK ??
We are shipping and chip tuning a 24v V6 4motion in the UK in March (note, the 97 octane may give better numbers!)
.[HR][/HR]​Its nearly March, I hope this kit is nearly ready, i have money waiting


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## gtiNY (Sep 19, 2002)

would this kit work with a cold air intake or possibly nitrous?







crazy stuff


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## Pocket Empty (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (gtiNY)*

quote:[HR][/HR]would this kit work with a cold air intake or possibly nitrous?







crazy stuff [HR][/HR]​hehe seriously dude I don't think you'll need a CAI for 1-2 extra hp when you have 280hp...


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## gtiNY (Sep 19, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (Pocket Empty)*

yea, but more is always better make that 283 hp! haha


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## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (gtiNY)*

So your question is if a Supercharger will work WITH a Cold Air Intake? Yea...Do some research on Superchargers, a "cold air intake" for a S/C is a air-water cooler... Such as the one in stage 3 from VF


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## EURO-VW (Dec 18, 2000)

*Re: blown 24v (vf-engineering)*

*Will there be a grey area if this ever happens like............
Well you didn't have an AUTHORIZED shop do the installation, therefore you will void the warranty of our product???*

_Please answer this question http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif _

quote:[HR][/HR]
how does the warrenty you are offering work? if something goes wrong, it's not like i can ship the engine over to you guys to look at - if we were to need service, what would be the proceedure? 
As with all aftermarket warranties, product warranties implicity cover the product only. This is made clear by most aftermarket manufacturers. Please be clear, our warranty only covers our product. Our experience in supercharging VR6s for over 5 years gave us the hindsight to build such a kit and fit it to this almost brand new car without worry about side effects to the motor. Furthermore we have been supercharging this 24v engine in Europe for over 2 years now. 
Isn't the standard GIAC software limiter set at 7200rpm?? Is the 7200rpm limiter with the S/C a problem??
We do not have experience with n/a chip limiters. 7200 with our s/c is no problem at all. The SC specs are on our site in case you wanted to see them. Our kit is setup in stage 1 to run the blower to only 60% of its capacity.[HR][/HR]​

[Modified by EURO-VW, 6:29 PM 2-24-2003]


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## KurtP (May 24, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (EURO-VW)*

i dont think you guys understand how much power it takes to increase your trp 5mph....








i wish i bought the VR6 not the 1.8...thats for sure...


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (KurtP)*

quote:[HR][/HR]i dont think you guys understand how much power it takes to increase your trp 5mph....








i wish i bought the VR6 not the 1.8...thats for sure...[HR][/HR]​I think what they were saying was that a car with 25X whp shoulda trapped higher. From what Nik said, with the low octane and track conditions yada yada yada, who knows. I dont think anybody can argue that the kit performs, because 250whp is very nice. I dont think anybody would be unhappy with it


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## Pocket Empty (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: blown 24v (leebro61)*

Does anyone know how much more weight this supercharger adds at the front wheels???


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: blown 24v (Pocket Empty)*

If its anything like my V2 (a bit bigger) it prolly weighs at least 30-40+ pounds including brackets. I couldnt believe how heavy my charger was. That may be a horrible estimate since im not exactly a scale, but its fairly heavy.


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