# Manual Steering Rack?



## jbrehm (May 16, 2006)

I've been thinking about doing this, and I see that someone has made a solution so cheap that it's not worth my time to even consider doing it myself: MKIV Manual Steering Conversion.

Has anyone done this? I'm mostly looking for feedback from people who've done; and, hopefully people named Max  I'm so tired of all the lame PS lines routing all over the engine bay, and I bought a heat exchanger to delete the low-pressure side, but it would be nice to not have that in the way either. I'd also be happy to see the PS pump and reservoir go.

I've also thought about swapping in a nice manual rack, and just welding up some arms to make it work, but for $50 this would be a nice interim solution that I could test out first.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Converting a power assisted rack to not have fluid flow isn't really a manual steering rack. :laugh:


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## 20v GTI Guy (Aug 20, 2001)

I did this on my corrado and hated it. Go full manual or nothing. The car had a really bizarre steering response.


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

I have run manual racks in stripped mk2's. Gets old very very fast. My current track car project has a manual rack...depending on how much iron I need to pump in order to keep that thing on the track for 30 min sessions, I will most likely go back to power assist. (2200lb car) 

I would suggest sticking with the stock power assist rack, TT's are heavy steering as it is, driving mine around with a dead rack was aggravating at the fist need to park or drive into a parking lot.


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## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm interested in this for my race car I have been looking for a manual rack because my PS pump and lines were destroyed, but the rack is good so maybe this is a good option also reduces weight in the front. and I'm all about that. let me know if you give it a try opcorn:

for 50.00 its worth trying out but..... couldn't you just disconnect the belt to get a feel of this MOD? clearly wont run forever with out the belt but a quick spin around the block couldn't hurt


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## jbrehm (May 16, 2006)

Thanks for the input, guys. I'd like to hear from more guys who have done it, especially on their dailies. 




taverncustoms said:


> couldn't you just disconnect the belt to get a feel of this MOD? clearly wont run forever with out the belt but a quick spin around the block couldn't hurt


My city is currently covered in a sheet of ice, so I'll never get the full extent of the effort required with sticky tires and warm asphalt. I'll let you know if I end up doing this...for a measly $50 I'm sure I'll give it a go in the Spring, before I invest in a manual rack.


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

I had it done to my car just filled the rack and looped the line. It def freed up all the crap but it is a lot harder 
To drive . Max told me to pull the rack apart and cut of the internal disks that push and pull the fluid from side to side I haven had time to try. if anyone knows of a Manuel rack that will fit let me know that's what I want to try
Next. The reason I did it was to try and loss some weight witch we all know the tt is a little heavy for a small car


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

i looped the lines on my 2.0 mk3, that was stripped.

it sucked. parallel parking was annoying. took both arms and aggressivly cranking the wheel.

i then got a manual rack from canada and manual tie rods from europe.

it was better, but even this was not "good".

manual racks suck on daily drivers. i cant imagine how bad it would suck on the tt, being a heavy pig.

that "kit" to manually convert the rack is nothing more than a few inches of hose!


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Jeremy, personally I would *NOT* do this to any car heavier than 2000 lbs street/track or manual/modified assisted rack. Unless you're Popeye, you'll hate yourself with this on such a heavy car with most of the weight on its front wheels. I've done this to several cars, but they were CRX, Saturns that were sub-2000 lbs wet. In the Saturn, I had to stick with a 370 mm steering wheel diameter to provide enough leverage in fast transitions. 

IMO, an under driven assisted pump or a small steering wheel is the most I'd dare to do on a TT... and a manual rack that wasn't designed for the car could suck too. Stick to an assisted steering rack if you're only doing it for the hell of it!

In cases where you have to have it, the assited rack can be taken apart and the 360 metal seals on the main shaft cut in half to allow free fluid movement in the rack (careful not to scratch the shaft when cutting the metal seal). This would help reduce the effort needed a great amount, but until it's tried nobody knows how it would feel on such a heavy car. (Rick should be the test mule and report). :beer:


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

(Rick should be the test mule and report). :beer:[/QUOTE]

Yeah I'm def going to try it .I def wouldn't recommend it op I have deleted a lot of stuff and this is one I wish 
I never did :facepalm: and the worst part is I threw and gave away all the old parts :facepalm:


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

may as well buy a rack from a salvage car. if you are going to try gutting the internals...

I too HATE the lines, always in the way. I was thinking about switching to hydraulic hose and routing it out of the way. I have a pag parts bottom mount gt3076r with a 4in intake. Those hoses are a royal PITA. I have unbolted them from the rack and bent them out of the way....


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## jbrehm (May 16, 2006)

Thanks for all the input, guys. :thumbup: 

I hear ya', Speed - those lines drive me nuts! And the fact that they run all around the turbo/DP/manifold is just bonkers.

I think I'll just man up and replace the low-pressure side with a heat exchanger, run some hydraulic hose/fittings for the high-pressure side, relocate the reservoir, and eventually run a smaller steering wheel. 

I was just trying to convince myself to take the easy way out by looping the rack. :laugh: I'm also a little wary of any company that calls themselves an Engineering firm, yet has never even tested the product they're selling.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

jbrehm said:


> I'm also a little wary of any company that calls themselves an Engineering firm, yet has never even tested the product they're selling.


But they have benefits! Didn't you read about them? :laugh: Seriously though, "engineering" begins with "engine" and they're definitely "eer'ing". :laugh:


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

jbrehm said:


> Thanks for all the input, guys. :thumbup:
> 
> I hear ya', Speed - those lines drive me nuts! And the fact that they run all around the turbo/DP/manifold is just bonkers.
> 
> ...



Performance: horsepower is freed up by eliminating the parasitic drag the power steering pump has on the engine. *Um, bet you it is so little it wont even show up on a dyno*

Transitioning: the TRW and ZF power steering rack and pinion has a “longer” gear set, compared to the VW manual rack. This means there are less turns of the steering wheel required to move the wheels lock-to-lock. This is great for any type of racing where quick transitioning is required, such as autocross. *Longer?! Perhaps more turns lock to lock. Unless hulk, this will suck at the track in anything heavier than 2k lbs as Max stated
*
Fuel Economy: by eliminating the power steering pump you will increase highway fuel economy. The pump wastes energy during highway driving, continually circulating fluid when the rack doesn’t even require it to assist the driver. *Perhaps on micro levels, like .02 MPG's*

Simplify: reduce the number of components in your engine bay. It will have a simpler and cleaner look *Cleaner look?!
*
Save money: if there is a problem with the power steering system, repairs are often extremely costly, especially for the rack and pinion. For $49 and ½ hour, you can be on the road again. *Part of owning a car, saving money is useless if you cannot preform a rapid lane change to save your life. Self preservation folks*


Yes it can be done. But it is a band aid fix. Wont help the issue our cars typically have with blown rack seals.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

how about an electric motor to pump fluid and mount it ON the rack....i know this has been doen OEM...


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2222562

and thank you very much.
i win the search award of the day.

I will also be ordering one soon....any of you guys in???


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## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

speed51133! said:


> http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2222562
> 
> and thank you very much.
> i win the search award of the day.
> ...


nice find


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

speed51133! said:


> http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2222562
> 
> and thank you very much.
> i win the search award of the day.
> ...


Now that's a nice solution rather than just looping the lines and increasing forearm endurance. :thumbup:


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

i reath the whole thread. the guy Kiwi uses the first gen mr2 pump. he says its fine but noisy.

Later on there is a link to another thread where the guy uses the second gen pump from the 2000 years. It has an ecu onboard and resivoir all attached to the pump. It has the option of recieving a vehicle speed signal to modulate the motor, but they say it doesnt require the signal to operate.

read the whole thread and all the links. tons of info.

I would say to either live with our racks as is, try to open it up and cut the internals to free it up and remove all hydraulics, or swap to the electric pump.

there are no other choices. looping lines sucks.


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