# R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block



## phatvr6 (Nov 13, 2001)

will have some proper measurements soon, but the head fits straight on, and the M11 2.8 head bolts do still fit throgh the r32 head.
crank fits, and turns, haven't tried any other bits yet. 
conrods appear to be identical.
haven't measured pistons yet, but 3.2 ones look 2mm bigger, but 2mm shorter.
I'm sure there's a reason why vw used m10 head bolts on the 3.2, maybe it's because you can't bore it enough for the 3.2 pistons with M11 head bolts??? I'll find out soon.


----------



## NOVAdub (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (phatvr6)*

Thanks for the info. Im sure this will help someone in the future. I wonder if the 3.2L head flows any better than the 2.8l.


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (phatvr6)*

Interesting, I have heard that head flows a lot better ... The R32 has a longer stroke doesnt it? Sounds like the R32 head + 2.8L block bored a bit would make a nice high revving NA motor heh. Interesting I would like to see some numbers I can't believe nobody has actually tried this before. Do the oil/water passages line up? Timing Chain stuff?


----------



## mjille (Dec 3, 2004)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (PhReE)*

good info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

the guys in the 24v forums constantly tell people this can't be done... 
confused?


----------



## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (kungfoojesus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kungfoojesus* »_the guys in the 24v forums constantly tell people this can't be done... 

You are surprised that there is bull**** in the forums?







Come now.


----------



## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

I expect it ever since somebody told me to jack my car up by the rocker panel when I first got it.
Can we get some pictures of the alleged head and block that are doing so well together?


----------



## 2manvr6 (Sep 28, 2002)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (phatvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvr6* »_
crank fits, and turns, haven't tried any other bits yet. 


good info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i think the crank would be the most important piece as everything else can easy be duplicated.....
phatvr6 got some pics of that lupo u got 4sale?


----------



## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

i still want to see it! pictures please
ps can you send me that lupo in the mail?


----------



## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (phatvr6)*

read Bentley,the 3-2 is an evolution of the compact and proven 2.8 VR6. Capacity was increased by extending piston stroke (81.0-84.0mm) and increasing cylinder bore (90.3-95.9mm)compression raised to 11.25:1 from 10.5:1 including redesigned intake system(manifold & head ports).
They basically modded the 2.8. many parts are interchangable


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_
read Bentley,the 3-2 is an evolution of the compact and proven 2.8 VR6. Capacity was increased by extending piston stroke (81.0-84.0mm) and increasing cylinder bore (90.3-95.9mm)compression raised to 11.25:1 from 10.5:1 including redesigned intake system(manifold & head ports).
They basically modded the 2.8. many parts are interchangable

Bore is 84mm, stroke is 95.9mm


----------



## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (MarcoVR6SC)*

no it's the other way around.


----------



## phatvr6 (Nov 13, 2001)

Marco is correct. bore is 84mm


----------



## BigBlockBug (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (phatvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvr6* »_Marco is correct. bore is 84mm

 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: (phatvr6)*

So what your saying is Bentley publishers is full of ****. maybe they are because they get it backwards a couple of times so what are you supposed to believe


----------



## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

i've found a few things in my bentley that are incorrect


----------



## NORSK (Feb 26, 2006)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_
read Bentley,the 3-2 is an evolution of the compact and proven 2.8 VR6. Capacity was increased by extending piston stroke (81.0-84.0mm) and increasing cylinder bore (90.3-95.9mm)compression raised to 11.25:1 from 10.5:1 including redesigned intake system(manifold & head ports).
They basically modded the 2.8. many parts are interchangable

I would love to have 95,9bore and 84mm stroke.
It would have been a 3638cc high rev vr


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (R28buddy)*

I can't find in the Bentley where it's mentioned the other way around. Second the CR of the BDF is 10.75, not 10.50








To go back on topic, a lot of people were saying that it was not possible to swap the head from a 3.2l engine on a 2.8l. Problem was a different configuration of the oil and water galleries.


----------



## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

So did this thing run or what? I'm still waiting on pictures.


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (kungfoojesus)*

Didn't someone post pictures on here of the head gaskets showing that the oil and coolant holes weren't the same, and didn't line up?


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_
So what your saying is Bentley publishers is full of ****. maybe they are because they get it backwards a couple of times so what are you supposed to believe

Yes we have found several mis prints. Even some that are somewhat substantial, like for the G60 motor the bentley has graphs of the blue and black water temp sensor output voltages vs temp .. and according to the book they have the exact same curve .. well they dont ... (well known fact)
Anyways yeah the VR is a longer stroke than bore for sure -- this is a VW remember not a Ferrari...









Oh and yeah the CR is 10.7:1 or 10.75:1 not 10.5:1.
As far as the oil and coolant lines ... I asked about that above but havent got any responses back... ?


----------



## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (PhReE)*

so are we ever actually going to see living PROOF that the .:R head fits with the 24V block? Ever? Pics?
Less theory more examples!


----------



## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

hello?


----------



## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

weak sauce!


----------



## 2manvr6 (Sep 28, 2002)

*Re: (kungfoojesus)*

like i said earlier why not just use the .:Rs crank for the longer stroke and just bore out the 2.8, port out the head, add some cams, and you should be fine and over 240bhp....
with the crank alone and no bore increase you'll already be at ~3.0L then it moves up to just over 3 liters with an 82mm bored, and just over 3.1 with an 83mm bore....
i dont see the .:Rs head being that much better and worth all the effort when compared to just porting the 2.8 head out


_Modified by 2manvr6 at 8:18 PM 4-26-2006_


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 23, 2006)

interesting, whats the furthest bore you can get out of that block?


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (2manvr6)*

I think it would be interesting to put the 2.8L crank in an .:R block and de stroke it a bit, do some headwork, and rev it out some heh.


----------



## 2manvr6 (Sep 28, 2002)

*Re: (PhReE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhReE* »_I think it would be interesting to put the 2.8L crank in an .:R block and de stroke it a bit, do some headwork, and rev it out some heh.

that also sounds fun. with no other changes the 2.8 crank in the .:R would make it an almost exact 3.0L engine


----------



## BigBlockBug (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (2manvr6)*

yup, im calling shenannigans


----------



## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

blackhole tis bish


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 21, 2006)

interesting....


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I think the person that bolted that head up finally got around to starting the thing up, and one of two things happened:
A. It melted down and now they are ashamed to show their face,
B. It blew up and killed them


----------



## 2manvr6 (Sep 28, 2002)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

phatvr6 is not a someone who BS's people. give him time lil boys, im sure youll be happy in the end


----------



## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (2manvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2manvr6* »_phatvr6 is not a someone who BS's people. give him time lil boys, im sure youll be happy in the end









I hope I eat my pessimistic words. Really I hope this works. lol http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (2manvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2manvr6* »_phatvr6 is not a someone who BS's people. give him time lil boys, im sure youll be happy in the end









X2


----------



## BigBlockBug (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (MarcoVR6SC)*

ya, you have a good point, not calling him into question, just maybe his initial assumptions have been disproven by this point. From what I was told there were alot fo little reasons why the two would not work together
as pessimistic as I am by nature, I would also like to see this pan out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

i'd love an easy way to bore/stroke these vr's but the r32 head ain't going to cut it apparently


----------



## SLC4EVER (Oct 7, 1999)

*Re: (2manvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2manvr6* »_phatvr6 is not a someone who BS's people. give him time lil boys, im sure youll be happy in the end









Word. Paul is the man...well, one of a few UK gurus.


----------



## 2manvr6 (Sep 28, 2002)

*Re: (kungfoojesus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kungfoojesus* »_i'd love an easy way to bore/stroke these vr's but the r32 head ain't going to cut it apparently

the easy way to stroke the 2.8 is by using the .:Rs crank as ive said everytime ive posted!!!! the head has no effect on the bore/ stroke of a motor.


----------



## MrBlueVR6 (Apr 14, 2004)

is the R crank really THAT much easier/cheaper to purchase?
Hell, i can't even begin to wounder where i can buy it (stealership is NOT an option, as I'm sure all of u can agree).
SO, if it's that hard to find, u'd think that who ever sells it is going to do so at a REALLY high price.
If anyone knows where to purcahse said crank, please inform us all (hopefully out retina won't be burned at the site of the price tag).
later



_Modified by MrBlueVR6 at 10:53 PM 5-2-2006_


----------



## SLC4EVER (Oct 7, 1999)

*Re: (MrBlueVR6)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2578745
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MrBlueVR6 (Apr 14, 2004)

alright then


----------



## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

nobody builds NA 24v's around here? (300whp +)


----------



## R32Jetta (Oct 13, 2005)

*Re: (kungfoojesus)*

If this guy got it running, he either had to use SRI or custom intake mani or use r32 intake mani, TB, maf, fuel rail and inj., engine wiring,ecu and cluster.
He last posted on april 30th, surely hell be back on here to let us know soon


----------



## phatvr6 (Nov 13, 2001)

sorry for keeping you gusy waiting.
I haven't bee able to do much on the engine as I've recently been on holiday and crashed my motorbike, so I'm out of action for a while.
I have a 3.2 block, 2x 3.2 heads, 2.8 block, 2.8 head and all gaskets off both including a set of pistons and crank for both, so I can measure anything you want as soon as I'm up and able.
I'll go take a quick taster pic shortly of the 3.2 head on the block, and the 2.8 gasket laid on the 3.2 gasket. the only difference is the bore.


----------



## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

So this entire forum was under the impression that this wouldn't work why?
Sounds like a FI conspiracy theory to me! haha


----------



## jcc24vdub (Jun 2, 2005)

what would happen if you kept the same bore and swapped in the R crank? what else would need to be changed....


----------



## 2manvr6 (Sep 28, 2002)

*Re: (jcc24vdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jcc24vdub* »_what would happen if you kept the same bore and swapped in the R crank? what else would need to be changed.... 


_Quote, originally posted by *2manvr6* »_
with the crank alone and no bore increase you'll be at ~3.0L 

it would also be the same displacement (3.0L) if you destroked a .:R by using the 2.8 crank, which would make for a more rev happy engine, personally thats the way i would go. 
just find a R32 owner who wants to trade cranks, everyone benefits


----------



## jcc24vdub (Jun 2, 2005)

If i could find an R owner who would trade cranks? is there anything else i would need to do?


----------



## Rabbid Rabbit (May 1, 2000)

*Re: (2manvr6)*

What I would like to know is how "rev happy" would an R32 w/2.8 crank be? Anyone have any ideas?


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (Rabbid Rabbit)*

I would guess (with a nicely flowing head) you could be making decent power to ~8500 rpm with a destroked r32 block
I mean you would need some hotter cams and headwork and most likley standalone to really make the best of it -- but it would be a really interesting setup.


----------



## 2manvr6 (Sep 28, 2002)

*Re: (PhReE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhReE* »_I would guess (with a nicely flowing head) you could be making decent power to ~8500 rpm with a destroked r32 block
I mean you would need some hotter cams and headwork and most likley standalone to really make the best of it -- but it would be a really interesting setup.

yup, maybe not the standalone, but it always helps.... cams will be the most important piece of the ingredient


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (2manvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2manvr6* »_
it would also be the same displacement (3.0L) if you destroked a .:R by using the 2.8 crank, which would make for a more rev happy engine, personally thats the way i would go. 
just find a R32 owner who wants to trade cranks, everyone benefits









If you use a 2.8 crank on the R32 engine, it will decrease the CR and power(or you have to put a longer rod). Maybe a good base for FI?
Same for the 2.8 with a R32 crank, it will increase the CR, and probably hit the cylinder head.


----------



## jcc24vdub (Jun 2, 2005)

does anyone know, or have exact measurements that would suggest that a 2.8 with a R crank would hit the cylinderhead??? If this is possible without problems, it will probably be my next step... so any info or advice or anything would help.... thanks


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (jcc24vdub)*

Anyone know if the pistons are the same height or the rods are different?


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (PhReE)*

Don't know about the piston height or rod length, will try to dig that up.
If you put a 2.8l crank in the R32, you will reduce the CR from 1:11,25 to 1:7,03








Even for FI it's a little low, or if you are crazy enough and want to blow 40 psi in it.


----------



## R32Jetta (Oct 13, 2005)

*Re: (MarcoVR6SC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MarcoVR6SC* »_Don't know about the piston height or rod length, will try to dig that up.
If you put a 2.8l crank in the R32, you will reduce the CR from 1:11,25 to 1:7,03








Even for FI it's a little low, or if you are crazy enough and want to blow 40 psi in it.










Rods are the same as 24v.....the wrist pin is set lower in the R32 piston


----------



## M Hankel (May 8, 2006)

*Re: (jcc24vdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jcc24vdub* »_what would happen if you kept the same bore and swapped in the R crank? what else would need to be changed.... 

You would have to change to a shorter rod, or change pistons to a shorter compression height (pin location needs to be higher due to the longer stroke). If you tried to use the same pistons/rods as the 2.8, the longer stroke would drive the piston into the head.
Since it's already been said that the rods are the same between the 2.8 and the 3.2, then the compression height was reduced for the 3.2. At least we know there is enough clearance in the ring pack to take up the difference. A long stroke/low compression 24V sounds like fun to me. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Mike


----------



## jcc24vdub (Jun 2, 2005)

what about using just the R crank and then putting a head spacer on to adjust for clearance and compression?? let me know what you guys think...


----------



## M Hankel (May 8, 2006)

*Re: (jcc24vdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jcc24vdub* »_what about using just the R crank and then putting a head spacer on to adjust for clearance and compression?? let me know what you guys think...

That would be a pretty thick spacer and I'm guessing the longer stroke would allow the rings to cross into the spacer. But, I have no idea how thick the ringlands are on the 24V pistons. Aside from that there would be no way to get the spacer to line up perfectly with the cylinder bores without a crapload of machining to the block etc. At that point it would just be cheaper/easier/more reliable to just order some custom forged pistons in any compression ratio you desire. And, if you're going to order custom pistons,,,, you might as well overbore it....... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Mike


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (M Hankel)*

hell at that rate just bore it out and use .:R pistons


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (PhReE)*

And with a spacer that thick, the cam timing will be out.


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (MarcoVR6SC)*

The easiest way would be to buy a R32 engine, or why not the R36:
http://cgi.ebay.de/VW-R36-Tech...wItem


----------



## R32Jetta (Oct 13, 2005)

*Re: (MarcoVR6SC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MarcoVR6SC* »_The easiest way would be to buy a R32 engine, or why not the R36:
http://cgi.ebay.de/VW-R36-Tech...wItem


oooooh nice, I want one sooo bad......wonder what shipping would be to BG, Ky


----------



## M Hankel (May 8, 2006)

*Re: (PhReE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhReE* »_hell at that rate just bore it out and use .:R pistons

If the 2.8l block could take that much of an overbore, then ya, that'd be a decent way to go.


----------



## phatvr6 (Nov 13, 2001)

*Re: (R32Jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32Jetta* »_Rods are the same as 24v.....the wrist pin is set lower in the R32 piston









this man is correct.
hell, I think I need to go take some pics and get the verniers out.
I'll have a spare set of R32 pistons available in a few weeks.


----------



## R32Jetta (Oct 13, 2005)

*Re: (phatvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvr6* »_
this man is correct.
hell, I think I need to go take some pics and get the verniers out.
I'll have a spare set of R32 pistons available in a few weeks.

hey phat.....just wondering what route youre gonna take to get this running? Such as what intake, fuel rail, inj. etc......


----------



## phatvr6 (Nov 13, 2001)

I have a spare R32 head, inlet, injectors and TB. all I need is another R32 fuel rail (shame they are £80)


----------



## R32Jetta (Oct 13, 2005)

*Re: (phatvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvr6* »_I have a spare R32 head, inlet, injectors and TB. all I need is another R32 fuel rail (shame they are £80)

I have a spare set of r32 fuel rail and inj. (well I have a guy who owes them to me) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
But what about the intake manifold...going to use r32 or SRI???


----------



## VertigoGTI (Apr 1, 2001)

*Re: (R32Jetta)*


_Quote »_I would love to have 95,9bore and 84mm stroke.
It would have been a 3638cc high rev vr 

Now that would be hot.
I want one!


----------



## Rabbid Rabbit (May 1, 2000)

Just wondering if anyone has any new information about this frankin-setup. A high revving 3.0 24v VR6 would be VERY fun indeed....


----------



## VR6ix (Oct 27, 2003)

It's been toooooooo long... back to the top.
Any updates... pics... dead horses... anything?


----------



## phatvr6 (Nov 13, 2001)

still recovering from my bike crash at the Isle of Man TT, zero progress on any of my projects I'm afraid.


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (phatvr6)*

I hope it's not to bad, good recovering http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 21, 2006)

*Re: (phatvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvr6* »_still recovering from my bike crash at the Isle of Man TT, zero progress on any of my projects I'm afraid.

sorry to hear that...


----------



## WCoUtReT (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Someone make VW 3.0 VR6 history please. Heres to a quick recovery to you op:


----------



## 1st v-dub (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: (phatvr6)*

holy cow! Isle of Mann? That's some cahones bro! Hope you get better soon.


----------



## swapjunky (Jul 20, 2006)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (phatvr6)*

I just did an R32 front drive swap in my 24v gti . The R head is totally 
different . the injector seat are at a different angle . The fuel rail is different . The injectors are different . The front of the head where the intake is cut at a odd angle . The head bolts are 0.5mm off on the r motor . Its either all r32 or nothing . The 24v engine harness does plug right in to the r motor and i have the software to make it run right
Swapjunky


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (swapjunky)*

what software is that? is it a custom tune?
does it support the infinitely adjustable exhaust cam phasing? 
(2.8L only has 2 positions for exhaust cam phasing, r32 motor has infinitely adjustable) 
-- both motors have infinitely adjustable on the intake cams tho


_Modified by PhReE at 5:49 PM 7-24-2006_


----------



## Rabbid Rabbit (May 1, 2000)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (PhReE)*

Thought I'd revive this one. Anyone have any news to add?


----------



## VertigoGTI (Apr 1, 2001)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (Rabbid Rabbit)*

Almost forgot about this post.


----------



## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (VertigoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VertigoGTI* »_Almost forgot about this post.


wheres phat boy lol.


----------



## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (fourthchirpin)*

I think it's safe to say it doesn't fit.
Aaaaand if it did - it probably wouldn't be worth the trouble anyways


----------



## MrBlueVR6 (Apr 14, 2004)

what about the crank? i think thats the biggest concern for everyone.
a head swap would be gangster, but i think i speak for a lot of ppl when i say "i wish i had more displacement," and i know the larger crank would deliver that.
so what about the crank? will THAT fit?


----------



## R32Jetta (Oct 13, 2005)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (MeiK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MeiK* »_I think it's safe to say it doesn't fit.
Aaaaand if it did - it probably wouldn't be worth the trouble anyways









It does but as you said....have to change over to r32 stuff

_Quote, originally posted by *MrBlueVR6* »_what about the crank? i think thats the biggest concern for everyone.
a head swap would be gangster, but i think i speak for a lot of ppl when i say "i wish i had more displacement," and i know the larger crank would deliver that.
so what about the crank? will THAT fit?

Crank fits yes http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by R32Jetta at 4:10 PM 12-13-2006_


----------



## baptizedbyfire (Dec 14, 2006)

*Re: (kungfoojesus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kungfoojesus* »_blackhole tis bish
x2


----------



## betterwaystodie (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (phatvr6)*

all i have to say is why is every mod that would really make a difference on a 24v besides chip, exhaust, intake over a grand?
It's racism at it's finest.......
b-


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (phatvr6)*

Funny thing happened this weekend.Took the 2.8 Gasket and placed it against the 3.2 head.Looked the same to me and then I was sent this link tonight and I just had to bring it back from the dead...

_Quote, originally posted by *swapjunky* »_The head bolts are 0.5mm off on the r motor .

Do you know what 0.5mm is? How did you measure that!?








Just so you guys know everything is interchangeable between the heads.

_Quote, originally posted by *94volkswagen* »_
*24v 2.8 head *









*R32 3.2 24v head*











So that being said,nobody actually tried doing this or is this just typical vortex jibber jabber...


----------



## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (Wizard-of-OD)*

ahhhhh i want to make an oversquare high revving VR so bad


----------



## Dubbed95 (Jul 23, 2004)

*Re: R32 crank and head DOES fit 2.8 block (Wizard-of-OD)*

Wizard, I have this this setup on my engine stand as we speak. the 2.8 head studs/bolts fit fine thru the 3.2 cyl head and the 3.2 hg lines up with my 2.9 (2.8L) block. the sealing ring around the combustion chamber seem to be in exactly the same location as it would be with the 2.8 hg, and it doesn't interfere with the water jackets or oiling holes. should be completed and running by this summer if all goes well.


----------



## proshot (Apr 22, 2004)

So you have a 3.2 head on a 2.8?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (proshot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *proshot* »_So you have a 3.2 head on a 2.8?

As of this Morning YES
I am going to start reporting alot of the BS I read on this forum.Expect to see alot of threads disappear into thin air with the reason : "because I said so".


----------



## WCoUtReT (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

This is a very old and famous thread in my opinion. I'm glad someone is finally putting things together. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## tungub (Apr 7, 2007)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_As of this Morning YES 

Does it actually fire up and run?








robert


----------



## WCoUtReT (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (tungub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tungub* »_
Does it actually fire up and run?








robert


uhh i'm guessing no... there's still a lot to figure out. They're just trying to provide proof for a possibilty of a mechanical meshing of the R32 head and 24v 2.8l block.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (WCoUtReT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WCoUtReT* »_there's still a lot to figure out.

Like What!? How to put a man on Mars?
This is NOT rocket Science....
The tensioner bolts the same,the gears are the same,the camshafts are the same.The only thing that is different is the ports.
But its much easier to come on vortex and type "it does not work".


----------



## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (tungub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tungub* »_
Does it actually fire up and run?








robert

what does it have to do with firing up and running? i have an r32 head and head gasket sitting in my garage right now. if somebody can get me a stock 2.8 head gasket i will gladly line both up and take pics. this is all the proof one needs to run a r32 head on a 2.8 block. 
now with the crank, u can run the crank no problems also, just need to run the r32 pistons which are 84mm bore because the wrist pin height is higher.


----------



## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: (fourthchirpin)*

so make it go vroom


----------



## Dubbed95 (Jul 23, 2004)

*Re: (proshot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *proshot* »_So you have a 3.2 head on a 2.8?

YES, I do have this setup together currently sitting on my engine stand in my garage as i complete the modifications for the o2m swap in the rado. No it has not fired up to date. Im not one of these vortex members who seem to have money pouring out the backside to be able to complete a project in seemingly weeks time. Im on 3yrs plus now. As WIZARD stated, everything lines up, everything is identical except the hg part #'s. Shooting for wf14 to have it running and h20 to have it driving. But got lots of other bills to pay for, and i don't make 6 figures.


----------



## Snitches Get Stitches (Jul 21, 2007)

I am going to be using an R head on my 24v FI build....all research points to this puppy bolting right on-minus the 10mm to 11mm bolt holes....now I need to track down an R fuel rail..anyone who has one, hit me up for a quick sale...


_Modified by Snitches Get Stitches at 3:39 PM 1-30-2008_


----------



## Dubbed95 (Jul 23, 2004)

*Re: (Snitches Get Stitches)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Snitches Get Stitches* »_I am going to be using an R head on my 24v FI build....all research points to this puppy bolting right on-minus the 10mm to 11mm bolt holes....now I need to track down an R fuel rail..anyone who has one, hit me up for a quick sale...

_Modified by Snitches Get Stitches at 3:39 PM 1-30-2008_

Good Luck, I looked for 2 1/2 yrs before just breakin down and buying one from the dealer $183+ change







. the head bolt/stud size is a non issue. G/L







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Snitches Get Stitches (Jul 21, 2007)

thanx for the well wishes...think I found my R rail....look for a build thread around the end of March...


----------



## Sosl0w (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: (Snitches Get Stitches)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Snitches Get Stitches* »_thanx for the well wishes...think I found my R rail....look for a build thread around the end of March...

And by March he means March of 09


----------



## Snitches Get Stitches (Jul 21, 2007)

No--March into April 08.....this build has been ongoing since last winter...where it started with swapping a 2 liter for my 24 valve and continues with a GT35 t4 .63


----------



## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (Snitches Get Stitches)*

R32 hg (top) vs. 2.8 hg(bottom)








2.8 hg on a R32 head, every thing lines up evenly








R32 head with no HG.


----------



## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (fourthchirpin)*

bump!!


----------



## DuB_MaNG (Apr 26, 2007)

so let me get this straight...
stock R32 crank and pistons will turn a 24v motor into a 3L vr6 WITHOUT any other modification???


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (DuB_MaNG)*

No you can't use r32 pistons unless you bore the block. Otherwise, yes, and I think there is some minor block clearancing required for the crank to fit & turn properly.


----------



## DuB_MaNG (Apr 26, 2007)

so what if u use the crank alone what benifits would that give?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (DuB_MaNG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DuB_MaNG* »_so what if u use the crank alone what benifits would that give?

An increase in stroke = increase in displacement.You will still need custom pistons are you have to now move the wrist pin closer to the piston crown.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 21, 2006)

subscribed!!! Popcorn...... Check!!!


----------



## subrosasix (Jul 30, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

if your gona use r32 crank, u need r32 pistons OR custom pistons (pistons that side the wrist pin deeper into the piston, making the piston sit in the block more)
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3628261


----------



## GTIGLXVR6MK4 (Feb 17, 2008)

This is what I would like to to, just got off the phone with JE i was told to purchase an R32 crank (vw $3200)LOL bore my 2.8 to 84mm then im probably going to buy 8.5 comp pistons backed by a garret gt35r which would make my car a 3.2VR6T 12 Valve, any one know where i could get a crank used or new but cheaper than that


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (GTIGLXVR6MK4)*

.:r32 cranks are not very easy to come by heh


----------



## Matt49265 (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (GTIGLXVR6MK4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIGLXVR6MK4* »_This is what I would like to to, just got off the phone with JE i was told to purchase an R32 crank (vw $3200)LOL bore my 2.8 to 84mm then im probably going to buy 8.5 comp pistons backed by a garret gt35r which would make my car a 3.2VR6T 12 Valve, any one know where i could get a crank used or new but cheaper than that

So will you be running JE pistons for an R32 application (higher wrist pin) and running stock rods? or a least stock rod length?


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (Matt49265)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Matt49265* »_
So will you be running JE pistons for an R32 application (higher wrist pin) and running stock rods? or a least stock rod length? 

That would be correct, 2.8L & 3.2L use same length rods.


----------



## Matt49265 (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (GTIGLXVR6MK4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIGLXVR6MK4* »_This is what I would like to to, just got off the phone with JE i was told to purchase an R32 crank (vw $3200)LOL bore my 2.8 to 84mm then im probably going to buy 8.5 comp pistons backed by a garret gt35r which would make my car a 3.2VR6T 12 Valve, any one know where i could get a crank used or new but cheaper than that

this is for 24v 2.8's...not 12v.


----------



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (Matt49265)*

Wizard-of-OD and Phil at Dubsquared have finally created custom headstuds for the 3.2 head and 2.8 block, just FYI
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

orly? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: (pOrKcHoP bOy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pOrKcHoP bOy* »_Wizard-of-OD and Phil at Dubsquared have finally created custom headstuds for the 3.2 head and 2.8 block, just FYI
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Really head studs made for the R might have to get them


----------



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (newcreation)*


_Quote, originally posted by *newcreation* »_
Really head studs made for the R might have to get them

If you drive an R32, these won't work, just stick with the Raceware. 
For the record, my R32 cylinder head on the 2.9L Schimmel Built Bottom-End, fastened down by ARP mainstuds originally designed for Honda motors
























































































For mock-up purposes, philipwight utilized ARP mainstuds from an Acura Integra GSR 

























Valvecover works too
















































I will be the first one to receive the new headstuds specifically designed for this hybrid 24v setup, will provide feedback soon.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by pOrKcHoP bOy at 3:41 PM 11-22-2008_


----------



## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

Sorry didn't read it correctly lol.THought they were making head studs for both not a fan of raceware at all.Cool to see they are making a head stud set-up for the hybrid motor wish i still had my 04 24vavle as well to mess around with.


----------



## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: (newcreation)*

i wanna make a hybrid http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif


----------



## GTI 20th AE #1421 (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: (2manvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2manvr6* »_like i said earlier why not just use the .:Rs crank for the longer stroke and just bore out the 2.8, port out the head, add some cams, and you should be fine and over 240bhp....
with the crank alone and no bore increase you'll already be at ~3.0L then it moves up to just over 3 liters with an 82mm bored, and just over 3.1 with an 83mm bore....
i dont see the .:Rs head being that much better and worth all the effort when compared to just porting the 2.8 head out

_Modified by 2manvr6 at 8:18 PM 4-26-2006_

ok so let me get this straight, an .:R32 crank in a 2.8 VR. wouldn't the longer stroke cause the piston to hit the head,bend the valves and/or smash the plugs?? you also mentioned to bore out the 2.8 but to what? what else would i need to purchase or install in order to make this all work? what about pistons and rods? pistons i assume can be the stock 2.8, but the rods would need to be shorter to compensate for the longer stroke,correct?
with all this plus porting the head and dropping in new cams, would going FI be a good idea







? i saw somewhere in the post that compression ratio would be lower, thats good for a FI setup, right?
finally what is the $$ to HP ratio of running this setup on a 2.8? is this mod worth the money? or would i be better off just strengthening my bottom end and supporting mod for tranny so it can accept a BT setup?
i plan to go FI on my VR (GT35 or GT40 turbo) i want to put down somewhere from 400 to 500 HP on my VR. sounds







but hey you only live once right.
any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (GTI 20th AE #1421)*

Be prepared to spend at least $10-15k. 
I think the ideal set up would be to retain the 2.8l bottom-end b/c it is stronger than the R32 due to thicker cylinder walls and utilize the R32 cylinder head b/c the consensus agrees that it's a better flowing head. Wizard-of-OD has made over 500whp using a GT35R and over 1000whp using a GT45R on a R32 head/2.8 bottom-end setup:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4001630
The inverse is also possible b/c I've seen people retain the R32 bottom-end and utilize the BDF cylinder head, as well. Don't have any numbers on this setup, unfortunately.
Both combinations are possible http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Dubbed95 (Jul 23, 2004)

*Re: (pOrKcHoP bOy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pOrKcHoP bOy* »_Be prepared to spend at least $10-15k. 
I think the ideal set up would be to retain the 2.8l bottom-end b/c it is stronger than the R32 due to thicker cylinder walls and utilize the R32 cylinder head b/c the consensus agrees that it's a better flowing head. Wizard-of-OD has made over 500whp using a GT35R and over 1000whp using a GT45R on a R32 head/2.8 bottom-end setup:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4001630
The inverse is also possible b/c I've seen people retain the R32 bottom-end and utilize the BDF cylinder head, as well. Don't have any numbers on this setup, unfortunately.
Both combinations are possible http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Theres a mk2 or mk3 out in queens ny that has this setup running wolf v500. i believe on a rought tune it made 207whp a few months back


----------



## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (GTI 20th AE #1421)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI 20th AE #1421* »_*ok so let me get this straight, an .:R32 crank in a 2.8 VR. wouldn't the longer stroke cause the piston to hit the head,bend the valves and/or smash the plugs??*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32Jetta* »_
Rods are the same as 24v.....the wrist pin is set lower in the R32 piston










_Quote, originally posted by *M Hankel* »_You would have to change to a shorter rod, or change pistons to a shorter compression height (pin location needs to be higher due to the longer stroke). If you tried to use the same pistons/rods as the 2.8, the longer stroke would drive the piston into the head.



_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
You will still need custom pistons are you have to now move the wrist pin closer to the piston crown.


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI 20th AE #1421* »_*what else would i need to purchase or install in order to make this all work?* 


_Quote, originally posted by *R32Jetta* »_If this guy got it running, he either had to use SRI or custom intake mani or use r32 intake mani, TB, maf, and fuel rail 


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI 20th AE #1421* »_*you also mentioned to bore out the 2.8 but to what? *


_Quote, originally posted by *fourthchirpin* »_now with the crank, u can run the crank no problems also, just need to run the r32 pistons which are *84mm bore *because the wrist pin height is higher.

Did you read any of this thread before quoting a post from nearly 3 years ago and trying to ask him questions








Log out <------ Top right of your screen


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*

I am not sure if a 2.8L block can be bored to 84mm ? I would assume so.. but otherwise you'd need custom pistons for the R crank.


----------



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (PhReE)*

If you bored the BDF block out to 84mm, you've effectively eliminated the advantage of having thicker cylinder walls.


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

Yeah, I was talking about using the R pistons (for the R crank) but a lot of people say that you cant even bore that much. I guess they are talking about 12v's -- the 24v block must be ABLE to go 84m... right? The R block isnt that much different is it?


----------



## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (PhReE)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io2GrdCIWlE


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (PhReE)*

The only difference I can see in the R block is the smaller dia headstuds which leave more meat between thin spots in the bore. That being said even 12v blocks have been taking to 84/85mm before.


----------



## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (Dubbed95)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dubbed95* »_
Theres a mk2 or mk3 out in queens ny that has this setup running wolf v500. i believe on a rought tune it made 207whp a few months back

if it's the car I know your talking about. it's a 3.2 with a 2.8 head. and its a mk3.


----------



## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (fourthchirpin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fourthchirpin* »_
if it's the car I know your talking about. it's a 3.2 with a 2.8 head. and its a mk3.

12V punched to 3.2? Or an .:R block with a 2.8 24v head?


----------



## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*

R32 block with a 2.8 24v head. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xNPap-S1VM


----------



## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (fourthchirpin)*

Interesting combo


----------



## Dubbed95 (Jul 23, 2004)

*Re: (fourthchirpin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fourthchirpin* »_R32 block with a 2.8 24v head. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xNPap-S1VM



Thats the one


----------



## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

ok so if u go bdf bottom end with an R head u get better airflow...
and if u go R bottom end with a bdf head u get higher revs like vtec status??


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*

R bottom end has bigger stroke (with r crank), but in all reality the stroke isnt limiting rpm, its the airflow thru the head. Even with an R head.


----------



## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

so more air flow = higher revs??
that doesnt make sense cuz how do honda's do it ?
is that why b18's swap heads with k20's and what not?


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*

well, so to support high rev you need to make sure that your max piston speed isnt going crazy (make sure the stroke isnt too big) and also make sure the head can handle it, mechanically.
So now if you can spin up to 9k but the motor is making no power up there, then there isnt any point. Notice how pretty much all dynos drop off pretty good after ~7200 rpm? You would need a lot of headwork to flow enough air to make power up at really high rpm. Honda heads flow better than VW ones, so they can do that.


----------



## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

ok so which is why people are doing the R head right? so they can continue the powerband past 7k? and since the R head does flow better. it'll allow maybe an extra 1000rpms to spin at.....cool


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*

Since it flows better it also pretty much makes more power across the board. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif In turbo setups it will spool sooner, etc, etc.


----------



## Dubbed95 (Jul 23, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_MANGv2* »_
is that why b18's swap heads with k20's and what not?

and not to get off topic, but u can't swap K and B series honda parts. What i think you mean is B20's swap heads with B18's 16's and k24's with 20's







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
sorry, back on point


----------



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Dubbed95)*

Would you guys consider the R32 head | 2.8 bottom end to be similar to the GSR head | B16 bottom end?


----------



## VR6DPLMT. (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

I suggest the next time this is thought of the OP tries to do it first and when it is done posts the results rather than keeping everyone in suspense.


----------



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (VR6DPLMT.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6DPLMT.* »_I suggest the next time this is thought of the OP tries to do it first and when it is done posts the results rather than keeping everyone in suspense.

Did you miss the pictures on pg 5 of this thread?


----------



## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (pOrKcHoP bOy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pOrKcHoP bOy* »_Would you guys consider the R32 head | 2.8 bottom end to be similar to the GSR head | B16 bottom end?

gsr head doesn't really flow better then a b16 head. a b16 head is closer to a type r head in port characateristics. I know many people do gsr bottoms with a b16 head.
same thing for the kseries, many people use the k20 head and put it on the k24 block. hell I know a handfull of people with stock k20 heads built k24 blocks making 280ishwhp.


_Modified by fourthchirpin at 10:21 AM 11-28-2008_


----------



## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (fourthchirpin)*

Yes b20 bottom end with b16 head = b20vtec
Gsr bottom end b18 with b16 head = they call it poor mans type R but it works
K20 head with k24 bottom end makes alot of power my buddies running only 10lbs makes over 400whp


----------



## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

maaan if i had some bomb ass buds id totally smoke u fooz out haha. i sooo have a soft side for wanting to know about hondas lol. and i can totally listen to u guys talk about that crap alllll day. preach on brothers
are those the only combinations u can do? what about with the H series? i completely find it appaling how honda motors respond so well to every lil swap...its like the ultimate engine to build on in a cute lil 4banger package.









_Modified by DUB_MANGv2 at 8:56 AM 11-28-2008_

_Modified by DUB_MANGv2 at 8:57 AM 11-28-2008_


_Modified by DUB_MANGv2 at 8:58 AM 11-28-2008_


----------



## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*

h22 and use a new transmission adapter plate and use the b16 tranny really short gears car runs good that way
And lsvtec swap ls bottom end using a b16 head=high compression set-up usually don't hold together really long but sure run really good when they do.


----------



## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (newcreation)*

Honda-Tech forums have some good reads if you want to learn more about those swaps http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (RipCity Euros)*

Just wanted to update and show everyone the better fitment provided by the custom hybrid 24v ARPs. I hope you guys can make out the custom headstuds from the pics. There is plenty of thread left up top http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
















Compare to the Raceware Headstuds, they'd didn't have as much thread left and had to be backed-out several times







and that was on the shorter BDF cylinder head
















Again, big thanks to Philipwight and Wizard-of-OD for these headstuds http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (pOrKcHoP bOy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pOrKcHoP bOy* »_If you bored the BDF block out to 84mm, you've effectively eliminated the advantage of having thicker cylinder walls.



Yup,
the whole point of the BDF 2.8 block is to have the thicker cylinder walls.
2.8L is MORE than enough displacement to play around with.


----------



## Ld7w_VR (Apr 21, 2006)

*Re: (MeiK)*

yea i kind of cant wait to see what is found out.


----------



## dmitry88 (Apr 26, 2006)

*Re: (VertigoGTI)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------

