# 10-40 vs 5-40 in MKV's 2.0t FSI w/ DSG



## stuartcassity (Dec 4, 2008)

long story short... switched from 5-40 to 10-40 and noticed quiet a difference.. anyone else experimented with this and have anything to say about it?


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## franz131 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: 10-40 vs 5-40 in MKV's 2.0t FSI w/ DSG (stuartcassity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stuartcassity* »_long story short... 

That is a colossal understatement.


_Modified by franz131 at 8:12 PM 3/17/2009_


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: 10-40 vs 5-40 in MKV's 2.0t FSI w/ DSG (stuartcassity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stuartcassity* »_have anything to say about it?

You're jeopardizing your warranty. Sweet.


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## stuartcassity (Dec 4, 2008)

*Re: 10-40 vs 5-40 in MKV's 2.0t FSI w/ DSG (bcze1)*

postive feedback.. always nice.... and for the lack of inspection at most dealerships.. chances of the oil weight being an issue which, yes could happen.. are almost 1 out of 5 techs actually looking that far into a car.. watch most dealership techs.. they only do what they're told.. and do their job and go home.. most of your small issues cost them money to observe.. so they get overlooked.. and besides all of this.. doing your own oil change makes this issue ok..
the oil weight change takes the beating for the harder driving.. considering my two responses.. 5-40 is good for cold weather.. considering the light weight will run to the faster warm up of the car.. then in the heat.. the 10-40 is able to help a bit better with the "fun" driving..


_Modified by stuartcassity at 8:52 PM 3-17-2009_


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## franz131 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: 10-40 vs 5-40 in MKV's 2.0t FSI w/ DSG (stuartcassity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stuartcassity* »_5-40 is good for cold weather.. considering the light weight will run to the faster warm up of the car.. then in the heat.. the 10-40 is able to help a bit better with the "fun" driving..
_Modified by stuartcassity at 8:52 PM 3-17-2009_

Can you provide more detail about the methodology of using the low temperature pumpability measurement to determine high temperature performance?


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: 10-40 vs 5-40 in MKV's 2.0t FSI w/ DSG (stuartcassity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stuartcassity* »_postive feedback.. always nice.... and for the lack of inspection at most dealerships.. chances of the oil weight being an issue which, yes could happen.. are almost 1 out of 5 techs actually looking that far into a car.. watch most dealership techs.. they only do what they're told.. and do their job and go home.. most of your small issues cost them money to observe.. so they get overlooked.. and besides all of this.. doing your own oil change makes this issue ok..


It has zero to do with techs. In the (albiet rare) event you have a powertrain failure they'll ask to see your maintenance records. Since you can't produce proof you followed VW's requirements they can deny warranty claims. No rocket science involved. 
Just some friendly advice to someone with a newer car that's likely still under warranty. When warranty is done no one cares if you put tranny oil in your crankcase.


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## stuartcassity (Dec 4, 2008)

*Re: 10-40 vs 5-40 in MKV's 2.0t FSI w/ DSG (bcze1)*

cool, thanks


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: 10-40 vs 5-40 in MKV's 2.0t FSI w/ DSG (stuartcassity)*

Which brand 5-40 and 10-40 are you talking about?


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: 10-40 vs 5-40 in MKV's 2.0t FSI w/ DSG (stuartcassity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stuartcassity* »_
the oil weight change takes the beating for the harder driving.. considering my two responses.. 5-40 is good for cold weather.. considering the light weight will run to the faster warm up of the car.. then in the heat.. the 10-40 is able to help a bit better with the "fun" driving..

_Modified by stuartcassity at 8:52 PM 3-17-2009_

10w40 and 5w40 will have same effect in the warmer temperature....5w40 will flow better while colder.
I don't know why people put oil weight in their engine that's not recommended, if they recommend 5w40 stick with it.


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## Fugly-Racin (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: 10-40 vs 5-40 in MKV's 2.0t FSI w/ DSG (rajvosa71000)*

I have to agree that the OE knows what there talking about and does tons of engineering on every aspect of the automobile/engine. To think that your or myself's novice thoughts are going to come up with a better argument is preposterous. The OE is right. period. 

With that said this is how I see it:
As far as i know (please correct me if I am wrong) 5w-40 means the oil has pour (viscosity) test equivalent of cold 5w when cold and pour test equivalent of hot 40w when hot. This is achieved by (i think it is polymers) chemicals that tend to grow thicker with heat. 

Furthermore multigrade oil has a lot to do with economical operation (one of a cars selling points), an apparently thinner oil will consume less energy than its "thicker" counterpart.
I am a mechanic by trade and I personally choose the 10w-40 Castrol Syntec for three reasons I can not get the 5w-40 at my parts store with out waiting for it. (1 hour but it is still inconvenient) And the cars hot low idle oil pressure is about 18# where as with 5w-40 it is 11# I am just old school seat of the pants not comfortable with that low of an oil pressure. The pressure at operating speed is the same with ether oil. And lastly the very same viscosity improver's aforementioned allow the oil to "coke" at a lower temperatures (not that those temps should ever be seen). 
The wider the viscosity range the lower the burning temp of the oil. -taken from "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell-
I believe that VW recommends the 5w-40 because both PROTECTION and ECONOMY. The 10w-40 certainly doesn't sacrifice protection when compared to the 5w-40 so the only loss as I see it is the economy which is worth 11/32nds of a rats ass to me. And if you look at the old days (pre-multigrade) race cars used to run straight 50w or even thicker because the film strength is higher on thicker oils.
The OE still knows best (and I deviate, some may thing I am a hypocrite or an idiot, I don't care I am a stubborn old F***. The only thing that lasts with no oil pressure is babit bearings from pre-history haha)


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: 10-40 vs 5-40 in MKV's 2.0t FSI w/ DSG (Fugly-Racin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fugly-Racin* »_And the cars hot low idle oil pressure is about 18# where as with 5w-40 it is 11# I am just old school seat of the pants not comfortable with that low of an oil pressure. The pressure at operating speed is the same with ether oil. And lastly the very same viscosity improver's aforementioned allow the oil to "coke" at a lower temperatures (not that those temps should ever be seen). 
The wider the viscosity range the lower the burning temp of the oil. -taken from "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell-


can you explain the benefit of higher oil pressure....and can an opponent explain the possible harm from a higher oil pressure?
thanks


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## franz131 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: 10-40 vs 5-40 in MKV's 2.0t FSI w/ DSG (Fugly-Racin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fugly-Racin* »_I have to agree that the OE knows what there talking about and does tons of engineering on every aspect of the automobile/engine. To think that your or myself's novice thoughts are going to come up with a better argument is preposterous. The OE is right. period.

More than just "right" or "wrong", the OE designed the motor and the various sub-systems. Building something as complex as a modern engine is far more complicated than we think it is. 


_Quote, originally posted by *Fugly-Racin* »_With that said this is how I see it:
As far as i know (please correct me if I am wrong) 5w-40 means the oil has pour (viscosity) test equivalent of cold 5w when cold and pour test equivalent of hot 40w when hot. This is achieved by (i think it is polymers) chemicals that tend to grow thicker with heat. 

Furthermore multigrade oil has a lot to do with economical operation (one of a cars selling points), an apparently thinner oil will consume less energy than its "thicker" counterpart.

If you'll indulge me for a second, I'll fill in some gaps here.
The "W" or "winter" number is a pumpability number, not pour point. The limit is 60,000 cPs (water at room temp = 1cPs)and the temperature where the limit is reached determines the W number.
e.g.
-20c = 20w
-25c = 15w
-30c = 10w
-35c = 5w
-40c = 0w
The differences we see between 5w30 and 10w30 is based on the introduction of ILSAC GF-1 and API EC (energy conserving) and their decision to focus on 5w30 as the fuel economy grade. There is no physical reason for a 5w to perform differently than a 10w at operating temperature, besides the intent of the formulator.

_Quote, originally posted by *Fugly-Racin* »_And the cars hot low idle oil pressure is about 18# where as with 5w-40 it is 11# I am just old school seat of the pants not comfortable with that low of an oil pressure. 

Oil pressure is a good indicator of the operating viscosity of the oil, but the results with one oil should not be used to determine the performance of all oils of the same stated viscosity range. Different oils of the same vis range will perform differently, as will tires of the same size and wear rating.

_Quote, originally posted by *Fugly-Racin* »_And lastly the very same viscosity improver's aforementioned allow the oil to "coke" at a lower temperatures (not that those temps should ever be seen). 
The wider the viscosity range the lower the burning temp of the oil. -taken from "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell-

Oil technology has been exploding for the last 10 years, what we knew then is completely obsolete information now (like reading a 5 year old computer article). In 2009 we'll have oils with low-volitility phosphorus and liquid titanium, who knew that 10 years ago?
High spec engine oils have V.I.s in the 160+ range, which drastically reduces the need for viscosity improvers, improvers which are also much better in their shear stability and lifespan. Oxidization of the base component is the primary cause of carbon and sludge deposits. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Fugly-Racin* »_I believe that VW recommends the 5w-40 because both PROTECTION and ECONOMY. The 10w-40 certainly doesn't sacrifice protection when compared to the 5w-40 so the only loss as I see it is the economy which is worth 11/32nds of a rats ass to me. 

Fuel economy is what's behind the move to 5w30, but not where you'd think. The gains are in the start-up and mid-temp city phases, the HTHS limit is unchanged (high end of Xw40) as is the oil's contribution to highway phase economy. The 'W' number has no bearing on this. 
Most oil companies post their data sheets on their website, they don't tell the whole story but it's far better than anecdotal testimonials on the internet.


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## Fugly-Racin (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: 10-40 vs 5-40 in MKV's 2.0t FSI w/ DSG (franz131)*

Thank you for the information on the low number in the 5w or 10w aspect of oil


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