# A.W.E. Tuning Mk5 K04 Turbo Kit Update



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2008)

Big power. Big, reliable, usable, tire-roasting power. That’s exactly what we set about to make with our K04 Turbo Kit for the Mk5 2.0T.
As seen in the most recent issue of European Car magazine as a Proven Feature. Click here to read more:
http://awe-tuning.com/pages/press/index.cfm

With some clever components that we designed and also manufacture in house, along with some cutting edge tuning from GIAC, we've adapted this bruiser of a turbo to the Mk5 2.0T engine with satisfying results:
- 315 crank hp and 345 crank torque when using the stock airbox and intercooler system
- 325 crank hp and 346 crank torque when the Audi S3 intercooler is added
- 335 crank hp and 357 crank torque when the Audi S3 intercooler and a cold air intake kit is added
- 350 crank hp and 363 crank torque when the Audi S3 intercooler and a cold air intake kit on race fuel program
*“Why doesn’t your kit include a High Flow Fuel Pump and Injectors?”*
This is one of the most common questions we get about our K04 Kit. During the development of this kit we did extensive testing on the limits of the stock fueling system. Our K04 kit was designed with those limits in mind. We, along with GIAC, data logged time and again to ensure that our kit will run at these power levels safely. 
We will be offering a High Flow Fuel Pump and Injectors, as well as special GIAC programming to take advantage of these parts, as an add on option in the future. It will add more power and is designed as a stage upgrade to our current kit. No wasted money or labor installing our basic kit now and our fueling upgrade later. Stay tuned for more information regarding that upgrade. 

*The best part about this kit? It's in stock and ready to ship!*

The Complete K04 Kit:








Optional OEM S3 FMIC: an effective and economical way to cool the intake charge. On its own this FMIC is good for a 10 crank horsepower gain.









Dyno comparison between a Stock turbo Mk5 2.0T with GIAC X+ Software and our K04 Kit with S3 FMIC and Cold Air Intake.









*If you would like to learn more about this amazing K04 Turbo Kit, please call or email us. *
[email protected] or 1-888-565-2257
You can also go directly to our website. Here is a link: 
http://www.awe-tuning.com/page...05kit
If you have any other questions you would like to ask, please feel free. I will do my best to answer them.


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

Do you have any logs of this kit? A/F, Rail Pressure, Injector On-Times, etc.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*FV-QR*

You fail to mention you can only get those numbers with a full TBE and i'd also suggest a pump....
Just pointing that out since i'm already there....


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## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

For stock fueling it's a bit over priced. 
If it included the injectors/pump and race tune and flash loader for that price, then you are potentially taking away business from your competition. (MAYBEE). 
You all know that this issue has been discussed many times as far as stock fueling and Ko4 is concerned. For you all to just say that you have done numerous data logs and not show them is not enough. 
How long as this kit been out? How many people are using it? What are your customers saying about the results?
IMO it isn't the best bang for the buck when powerband is conserned. 
Ful Kit for Full kit, software programs for software programs
AWE $4845 
APR $5000


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## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

Search the forums. There are lots of user reviews. The kit has been on the market since late last year. As far as logs, I suggest you ask some our clients to post them so no one can claim we doctored anything.
I am not sure what other kits you may be comparing ours to in terms of pricing, but the APR comparison you made is incorrect.
Our kit with stock fueling and stock intercooler is $3795. Add $300 for a total of four possible programs, for a grand total of $4095.
The APR kit with stock pump and S3 injectors is $4399 with 4 programs. Add their pump to their kit, and it is $4999.
Our S3 injector/pump add-on will be priced south of $1k, so it certianly does seem that our pricing is right in line for comparable kits, if not actually cheaper.
There are cheaper kits on the market, but you *definitely* get what you pay for with them, speaking from first hand testing experience we have done here. Testing budget kit injectors on our FSI injector stand has been an eye opener and explains the hard starting and misfires with those kits!


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## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_You fail to mention you can only get those numbers with a full TBE and i'd also suggest a pump....
Just pointing that out since i'm already there....

You can do what now? Are you saying you can get the same hp and torque numbers you can with our K04 kit by just adding a TBE/HFP/software to a K03?
Don't get caught up in single dyno runs. Without a baseline from the same car on the same dyno, it's like comparing Cheetos to Fritos. 
We've done K03 TBE/HFP/software testing and while you can get good torque, the K03 runs out of breath up top. There is no comparison at higher rpms to the K04. The S3 K04 we use compares favorably to a GT28RS.


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

Todd,
What is the discount for current GIAC users? 
Maybe Craige-O can chime in with some logs?


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

Also...any update on the ETA of your fuel pump upgrade?


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## munky18t (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I am not sure what other kits you may be comparing ours to in terms of pricing, but the APR comparison you made is incorrect.
Our kit with stock fueling and stock intercooler is $3795. Add $300 for a total of four possible programs, for a grand total of $4095.
The APR kit with stock pump and S3 injectors is $4399 with 4 programs. Add their pump to their kit, and it is $4999.


so AWE = 4095 for 4 programs
and APR = 4399 for 4 programs and injectors
i think i'd pay the extra $300 (good price for the injectors btw) for the APR kit with the injectors and know that the extra fueling is there 


_Modified by munky18t at 11:00 PM 6-26-2008_


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## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: (munky18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *munky18t* »_
so AWE = 4095 for 4 programs
and APR = 4399 for 4 programs and injectors
i think i'd pay the extra $300 (good price for the injectors btw) for the APR kit with the injectors and know that the extra fueling is there 

_Modified by munky18t at 11:00 PM 6-26-2008_

Munky,
You happened to post when I was online doing some late night work, so I'll shoot a quick response.
There seems to be some confusion here about how "hard" the different kits are being pushed.
First, the APR kit uses S3 injectors and their HFP for $4999. They claim higher power, which they should given their fueling components. For the record, there is no such thing as an APR K04 kit for $4399. That price assumes you already have a HFP, so in reality, it is much more than a $300 price difference.
Second, each kit is being pushed appropriately for the given hardware. We are not pushing our kit to what APR would be doing with their kit, *because* we are running stock fueling.
However, our "stage 2" fueling add-on, which consists of S3 injectors and our own HFP, does push things harder with a special GIAC program. The extra boost and timing results in about 20 more crank hp over our "stage 1" parts. 
And because our kit is mostly composed of parts we designed and manufacture, we can keep costs lower than APR who is using a majority of S3 parts. S3 parts are getting more expensive by the day because of the poor dollar exchange rate against the euro.
I hope the helps clarify the details of the kit. We're not pushing our kit beyond safe limits for the stock fueling. We have no interest in blowing up customer cars, and we did a ton of testing on multiple test cars to ensure our results are solid. We have also done a ton of testing with our fueling kit add-on, and as stated above, more power is unlocked because of the etxra fuel available.


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## munky18t (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
And because our kit is mostly composed of parts we designed and manufacture, we can keep costs lower than APR who is using a majority of S3 parts. S3 parts are getting more expensive by the day because of the poor dollar exchange rate against the euro.


Thanks for the clarification, Todd.
Could you shead some light on what parts are manufactured in house? I had understood that all of these kits were primarily made of OEM components. From looking over the picture you posted, the onlu pieces that do not look oem would be the parts associated with the DV relocation


_Modified by munky18t at 11:37 PM 6-26-2008_


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*FV-QR*

DV housing & turbo outlet pipe.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
You can do what now? Are you saying you can get the same hp and torque numbers you can with our K04 kit by just adding a TBE/HFP/software to a K03?
Don't get caught up in single dyno runs. Without a baseline from the same car on the same dyno, it's like comparing Cheetos to Fritos. 
We've done K03 TBE/HFP/software testing and while you can get good torque, the K03 runs out of breath up top. There is no comparison at higher rpms to the K04. The S3 K04 we use compares favorably to a GT28RS.

I never said i'm on stock turbo.I'm on a K04..
My car has "twice" the stuff your kit advertises, (complete fuel upgrade,full TBE,and some other stuff) and i got 342 BHP on a MAHA.I am hoping with the Forge to see even higher numbers soon, but there is NO WAY you can make 350 BHP without a full turbo back, and injector/pump.
Cupras over here are making good numbers, but they don't have a BPY engine, and have different cams, and cylinder head.
And trust me when i say something, i've done my homework first....


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## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
I never said i'm on stock turbo.I'm on a K04..
My car has "twice" the stuff your kit advertises, (complete fuel upgrade,full TBE,and some other stuff) and i got 342 BHP on a MAHA.I am hoping with the Forge to see even higher numbers soon, but there is NO WAY you can make 350 BHP without a full turbo back, and injector/pump.
Cupras over here are making good numbers, but they don't have a BPY engine, and have different cams, and cylinder head.
And trust me when i say something, i've done my homework first....









Actually, this is a VERY good point. I misunderstood your first post.
Yes, a full turbo back exhaust is REQUIRED to make this power. We do have note about that on the site.
Regarding your power comments, like I said previously, it is impossible to compare power numbers across multiple dynos. The only way to be able to accurately compare is if you have a baseline, too. Then you can talk about the percentage gains your car made vs another one on a different dyno. That is assuming the dyno operator knew what he was doing...


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## MrVento (Jan 21, 2001)

"Without a baseline from the same car on the same dyno, it's like comparing Cheetos to Fritos."
That my friends was the "line of the day".








Speaking of TBE, some time ago AWE made a dual exhaust setup but nothing ever came of it in terms of full production, any info on this matter? 
For the record A.W.E. always makes incredible products for many years, these guys have tons of hours of testing and engineering under their belt. No rookies here these are seasoned veterans, you are going to get a quality product and support for it as well.


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## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: (munky18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *munky18t* »_
Thanks for the clarification, Todd.
Could you shead some light on what parts are manufactured in house? I had understood that all of these kits were primarily made of OEM components. From looking over the picture you posted, the onlu pieces that do not look oem would be the parts associated with the DV relocation

_Modified by munky18t at 11:37 PM 6-26-2008_

Take a look at the APR kit picture in Arin's for sale thread here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3832150
The pump is on the right and the injectors along the bottom left. Besides gaskets and fasteners and a custom made wiring harness extension, everything else is S3 parts. What they need 5 items to do, we do with 3. And two of ours (DV housing and turbo outlet pipe) are made in house.
Actually, I am glad the question came up, because I think our solution is not only cheaper because of the non-S3 parts used, it is much more elegant considering it achieves the same results with less parts.
We do require trimming the original turbo outlet hose, but otherwise our install is much simpler than converting over to S3 components. See our install manual here:
http://awe-tuning.com/pages/fa...AQ=67
Let me know if you have further questions.


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## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: (MrVento)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MrVento* »_"Without a baseline from the same car on the same dyno, it's like comparing Cheetos to Fritos."
That my friends was the "line of the day".









Haha! I get tired of the "apples to oranges" term.

_Quote, originally posted by *MrVento* »_Speaking of TBE, some time ago AWE made a dual exhaust setup but nothing ever came of it in terms of full production, any info on this matter? 

Funny you should ask that! We took delivery of an 08 TSI GTI and just yesterday completed a R32 rear exhaust section for our cat back. We're putting a bunch in production and I'll have pricing and pictures by Waterfest. Current owners or our cat back will have to cut the midpipe to adapt this rear section, but it will still be a bolt on (no welding required). We will also have optional diamond black tips, which have really been popular with our Porsche exhausts.


_Quote, originally posted by *MrVento* »_
For the record A.W.E. always makes incredible products for many years, these guys have tons of hours of testing and engineering under their belt. No rookies here these are seasoned veterans, you are going to get a quality product and support for it as well.









Thanks for the kind words. I know that we are not extremely active participants in this forum compared to misc Audi and Porsche forums, and perhaps some forum members are unaware of our heritage and capabilities. We have been around 17 years and have a state of the art facility and experienced staff including several degreed engineers. Take a tour here (some pics a bit outdated):
http://awe-tuning.com/pages/fa...x.cfm


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## MrVento (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

The availability i was referring to was a dual exhaust setup for the Audi A3...and if it was an option to get black tips...good lord that would be perfect.
Yeah i notice you guys are not on the forums as much as the other shops and well when you have some incredible cars to work in the shop, the forums would be the last thing on my mind too.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

any word on the a3 equivalent? dsg application?


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (whizbang18T)*

Getting word on DSG application is like pulling teeth.


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## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: (brandon0221)*

Wow, I just realized DSG still was not updated on our site.
Yes, DSG apps for all 2.0T transverse are complete. The European Car Magazine Proven Article was a DSG A3, in fact.
I have someone here adding it to our site. Pricing is the same, power is slightly lower because of the tranny shift point (peak on the Mustang dyno is past where the DSG shifts).
Sorry!


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## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: (rbradleymedmd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rbradleymedmd* »_Todd,
What is the discount for current GIAC users? 

Trade in for GIAC K03 chip owners is $250! We will add that to the site, too!


_Quote, originally posted by *rbradleymedmd* »_Maybe Craige-O can chime in with some logs?

Honestly, something like that would be best. It seems that the topic of "logs" is such a hot potato, I'd rather let a customer car do the talking so no one can debate it.


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## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: (MrVento)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MrVento* »_
The availability i was referring to was a dual exhaust setup for the Audi A3...and if it was an option to get black tips...good lord that would be perfect.

oooh. Sorry to say that we're not putting that one into production. Not enough demand and too many rear valence options...

_Quote, originally posted by *MrVento* »_
Yeah i notice you guys are not on the forums as much as the other shops and well when you have some incredible cars to work in the shop, the forums would be the last thing on my mind too.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

We absolutely keep busy here.
As further proof how "within our capabilities" the Mk5/A3 K04 kit is for us, I suggest forum members take a peek at this video:
http://www.awe-tuning.com/medi...t.wmv
That is our in house development car, and this bolt on kit has literally thousands of hours of R&D in it and is the first of its kind from a US tuner. 
700hp on pump, 750hp on race fuel without touching internals. We had to re-engineer the VTG turbos, intercoolers, throttle body/intake, headers, muffler, and of course software (with GIAC's expertise). 
In comparison, the 2.0T K04 was a walk in the park!


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

Thanks Todd, by chance...do you guys plan to offer the fuel pump separately?


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## VW03Getta (Jan 27, 2007)

email sent. I tried t "IM" you but you've got that disabled


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## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: (rbradleymedmd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rbradleymedmd* »_Thanks Todd, by chance...do you guys plan to offer the fuel pump separately? 

Yes, that is the plan.
Our final production parts are scheduled to finally arrive next week. We then need to do some batch QC spot checks and then do a formal release. Here is a picture of the pump and injector kit:








Some details on the pump and what makes it unique:
Patent pending high pressure pump design, suitable for all 2.0T FSI engines.

Specialty tools included for pump component swap.

Extensively street and dyno developed.

Coating -
PVD (Plasma Vapor Deposition) application of a DLC (Diamond Like Coating) - Low friction, extreme hardness and durability. Critical for long lasting performance

Tolerances -
Piston and bore are precision ground and matched to within microns (1 micron = .00004") 

Manufacturing -
5 separate manufacturing steps including, machining, heat treatment, grinding, and coating

QC-
Each set is checked with precision digital gauges with a resolution of .00001"

Further-
Our design uses the factory fuel pump spring retainer not a generic valve spring retainer like the other pumps. 
The factory retainer has smooth beveled edges and a mirror surface finish. Pumps not using the factory retainer have sharp edges and are slightly concave in the center, resulting in less load bearing area and the potential for stress concentrations from minor piston side loads. That type of design has been attributed to increased wear on cam followers by some experts.
Pricing will be ~$400 for the pump, as a do-it-yourself install kit, complete with specialty tools (pictured) to ensure install success.

To be perfectly honest, I respect APR's pump program in terms of the R&D and technical details they have shared, though I do feel their "in house rebuild only" program is overkill. Kudos to them for bringing such a highly engineered product to market so quickly. 
I can't be so complimentary about the other pumps out there. Copycatting is not something you can get away with on this product (hence the rampant siezing issues with other pumps). Appearances are deceiving with this part and copying outward dimensions is a recipe for failure.
We invested an immense amount of time and money into this part because all indications suggest that FSI is here to stay for a long time on many different car makes, so we needed to get the technology nailed down now to ensure long term success. 
Unfortunatley, we have to start all over again with the new TSI cars, as the pump is completely different and is also a sealed unit. Engineering a solution has already begun.


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

Thank you very much sir. I'm looking forward to release and following details.


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## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: A.W.E. Tuning Mk5 K04 Turbo Kit Update ([email protected])*

Wow, just saw this thread. I will try to get with a friend with a VAG to do some logs. My car runs *AWE*some and is spot on.. I always welcome test "rides" anytime you see me.. I have never been so happy with a bolt on product. What is really funny is that I took the car to a dealer and the did a warrenty on my DV. Had no clue the turbo was upgraded!!








Anyways, if anyone has questions feel free to post or IM me..
Todd, did the pics help for the R32 rear section?


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## labelskate (May 20, 2007)

*Re: A.W.E. Tuning Mk5 K04 Turbo Kit Update (Craige-O)*

Todd,
any word on when more vent boost gauges will be in stock?
Thanks.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

So it looks like you are: using a stepped piston design; reusing OEM seals; reusing OEM retainer; not including a higher rate return spring.
What kind of warranty are you offering on the pump?


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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (crew219)*

I can use this pump with the new giac k03(pump upgrade) software correct?
Hurry up and sell it to me


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
So it looks like you are: using a stepped piston design; reusing OEM seals; reusing OEM retainer; not including a higher rate return spring.


That is exactly what he said. Just for future posters dont come in here questioning AWE's quality. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (brandon0221)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brandon0221* »_
That is exactly what he said. Just for future posters dont come in here questioning AWE's quality. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Actually the only part of what i mentioned that he actually posted was reusing the OEM retainer. Perhaps you should read more carefully.
Dave


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Actually the only part of what i mentioned that he actually posted was reusing the OEM retainer. Perhaps you should read more carefully.
Dave

Well lets see Dave since you obviously seen the picture at least twice as you can see there is no upgraded spring and therefore they would use the stock one. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Actually the only part of what i mentioned that he actually posted was reusing the OEM retainer. Perhaps you should read more carefully.
Dave

Warranty will be 1 year to original purchaser.
I assume you are trying to insinuate the fact that we reuse the seals, have a stepped design, and no HD spring suggests that our product is inferior in some way.
The fact that it has taken this long to release our pump is simply because of the extensive testing and QC procedures we put in place to ensure success. Our intended market is far wider than VW.
We have several pumps in field tester cars with 10s of thousands of miles on them with no failure on the current design. We have torn down multiple pumps for inspection after lengthy periods of use.
Our own original designs were not so successful, resulting in multiple evolutions. Also, we originally embarked on our own pump design *because* we were getting such bad results from another company's product.
Based on other designs you have seen that are currently on the market, your concerns may be justified, just not in our case here. In reality, the vast majority of seizing failures happening with the other designs are from lack of precision machining control (this is VERY high tolerance machine work) and lack of understanding of what coatings/tempering are required. We did extensive research on the original Hitachi design, dissecting many engineering documents they released on their pump. 
Plus, the part that makes ours Patent Pending is another reason we have had such success.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
his predictions of how and why the AT pumps would fail have been 100% accurate. Keeping elements of the AT pump design is a bit worrying wouldn't you say?



His prediction has come true for every brand as EVERY brand, yes as proven here despite keiths blatant lies, has had each of the types of issues he described. Just because some spend more time covering them up than others doesn't mean its not happening.


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## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
I'm more concerned about the use of the stepped piston. As Enginerd pointed out, flaws with the AT design were both the plunger tip as well as the stepped piston. Not 100% sure if he mentioned the deficiencies of not upgrading the return spring. Nevertheless, considering he has extensive knowledge and experience in the field of high pressure pumps, his predictions of how and why the AT pumps would fail have been 100% accurate. Keeping elements of the AT pump design is a bit worrying wouldn't you say?
No surprise given that AT and APR pumps have been used in both the Mazda applications and i think maybe the GM ecotec setups as well.
I'm a bit curious, what exactly are you seeking a patent on? The overall design is patented by hitachi . . . and you're also reusing a lot of parts.
The only thing I could think of is perhaps the exact dimensions / mfg of the stepped piston and bore?
Dave
_Modified by crew219 at 6:43 AM 6-28-2008_

It's an improvement patent and it solves the issues associated with using a stepped design. It goes far beyond just outside dimensions. Once the patent is granted and the pump is released, we can go into this in further detail.
We're quite aware of all the different ways pump designs can fail. What do you think we've been doing this whole time while other pumps have been on the market? We ensured we would not suffer the same fate as the lesser engineered designs. We had multiple design failures ourselves, but instead of rushing to market, be kept revising until success was demonstrated.
Our tip design is also different than the AT one.

_Modified by [email protected] at 6:51 AM 6-28-2008_


_Modified by [email protected] at 9:54 PM 6-28-2008_


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
He has a point, Dave. You obviously did not take the time to read more carefully yourself, as answers to your own question about the HD spring were answered in my HFP pump post above. It is a shame to see someone who presents himself as so technically minded let his emotions get the better of him.

What are you talking about Todd?

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Further-
Our design uses the factory fuel pump spring retainer not a generic valve spring retainer like the other pumps.
The factory retainer has smooth beveled edges and a mirror surface finish. Pumps not using the factory retainer have sharp edges and are slightly concave in the center, resulting in less load bearing area and the potential for stress concentrations from minor piston side loads. That type of design has been attributed to increased wear on cam followers by some experts.

Where have you mentioned reusing the factory return spring itself? 
Dave


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_

His prediction has come true for every brand as EVERY brand, yes as proven here despite keiths blatant lies, has had each of the types of issues he described. Just because some spend more time covering them up than others doesn't mean its not happening.

OF course you would claim that and then use the excuse that you have an NDA that absolves you from posting any actual proof of all the failures.
All the APR pump failures that I've seen reported on the forums have been a failure of the OEM follower or cam which inevitably would damage the APR pump. You can't really claim that's a failure of the pump itself . . . 
AT on the other hand has either seized or the pump itself has placed excessive stress on the follower causing it to fail.
Dave


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
It's an improvement patent and it *solves the issues associated with using a stepped design. * It goes far beyond just outside dimensions. Once the patent is granted and the pump is released, we can go into this in further detail.


As you yourself mentioned, there is an issue with the stepped piston design, but what I don't understand is, why bother with a stepped piston if you can just use a normal, continuous diameter piston and provide an appropriately sized return spring? The stepped piston is simply a compromise to keep the piston weight down and close to the weight of the OEM piston so you could reuse the OEM return spring. That = cost cutting. AT used a titanium spring retainer in order to keep the weight down. You're reusing the OEM spring retainer which is undoubtedly heavier. Isn't that more reason to provide a spring with the proper rate for the weight of the new setup?

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Our tip design is also different than the AT one.


Of course the tip is different from the AT pump . . . you wouldn't be able to use the OEM pivoting retainer if it was the same as the AT ;-)
Dave


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## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
As you yourself mentioned, there is an issue with the stepped piston design, but what I don't understand is, why bother with a stepped piston if you can just use a normal, continuous diameter piston and provide an appropriately sized return spring? The stepped piston is simply a compromise to keep the piston weight down and close to the weight of the OEM piston so you could reuse the OEM return spring. That = cost cutting. AT used a titanium spring retainer in order to keep the weight down. You're reusing the OEM spring retainer which is undoubtedly heavier. Isn't that more reason to provide a spring with the proper rate for the weight of the new setup?
Dave

Since when is cost savings not a valid design target? We're not operating in a vacuum here. After all the engineering work, we still have to meet market pricing expectations.
Cost savings at expense of reliability is a whole other matter, but that is not what we did here.


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Since when is cost savings not a valid design target? We're not operating in a vacuum here. After all the engineering work, we still have to meet market pricing expectations.
Cost savings at expense of reliability is a whole other matter, but that is not what we did here.

Well it seems as if engineering costs would have been significantly reduced by merely emulating the Hitachi manufacturing processes and applying that knowledge to a proven piston design, rather than spending man-hours on trying to make a design with compromises work. 
The manufacturing of a stepped vs straight piston would have minimal cost differences (favoring the straight piston), a new return spring can't actually cost that much can it?
Dave


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
OF course you would claim that and then use the excuse that you have an NDA that absolves you from posting any actual proof of all the failures.


_Quote, originally posted by *rules* »_
The following posting guidelines are here to help you (and others) have an enjoyable experience here:
# Respect both forum moderators and administrators. It is a thankless job that we do, and cleaning up other people's messes is never fun.
# No SHOUTING. Don't use all caps when posting. It is difficult to read and annoying.
# Try to post to the forum that is most appropriate for the topic being presented.
# No cross-posting. (This is posting the same topic in more than one forum)
# Refrain from using profanity or cr3ative spell1ng to get around the censor filters. Posts that circumvent the censor may be removed.
# Respect the privacy of other members and individuals. Do not post personal information about them (i.e. addresses, phone numbers, passwords, etc.)
# Observe all copyright laws when posting copyrighted material.
#* Do not post messages that violate Federal, State, or Local laws which include, but are not limited to, anything that violates a copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret, or is bound by NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement).*


I'm sorry Dave but I respect my job, my contacts through it, and the rules of these forums.
Because you chose to live your life without morals or respect does not mean we all have to!


_Quote »_
All the APR pump failures that I've seen reported on the forums have been a failure of the OEM follower or cam which inevitably would damage the APR pump. You can't really claim that's a failure of the pump itself . . . 

There was at least one report of an APR pump seizure and it was the one I knew of. But yelled and bitched at by Keith that I was a liar when I said it and not a peep from him, you or the rest of the usuals when someone else backed it up.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Well it seems as if engineering costs would have been significantly reduced by merely emulating the Hitachi manufacturing processes and applying that knowledge to a proven piston design, rather than spending man-hours on trying to make a design with compromises work. 
The manufacturing of a stepped vs straight piston would have minimal cost differences (favoring the straight piston), a new return spring can't actually cost that much can it?
Dave

Some times you make me laugh man..(well actually most of the times)
Here you are telling AWE what they SHOULD have done, which lets face it is follow APR's design (cmon you can say it, don't be shy...), and yet, if that were tha case, you'd love to come out and yell CHEATING, cause they actually copied APR's UBER DESIGN...
FFS this is getting more ridiculous every time...


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
Some times you make me laugh man..(well actually most of the times)
Here you are telling AWE what they SHOULD have done, which lets face it is follow APR's design (cmon you can say it, don't be shy...), and yet, if that were tha case, you'd love to come out and yell CHEATING, cause they actually copied APR's UBER DESIGN...
FFS this is getting more ridiculous every time...
















I agree that this is starting to spiral negative.
Let's keep the post on topic about our K04 kit.
When our pump is released, we will start a new thread, and all the controversy can start anew!
Thanks, guys. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
There was at least one report of an APR pump seizure and it was the one I knew of. But yelled and bitched at by Keith that I was a liar when I said it and not a peep from him, you or the rest of the usuals when someone else backed it up.


Chris you very well know there was more than just 2 APR's failures, and failures that 100% led to camshaft destruction for that matter.
But as you pointed out, some go out of their way covering their track, and smokescreening to save their reputation.
So to summarize,when APR's pump fails, its the OEM parts that fail, whereas when other companies pumps fail...it the poor design....
Got it..... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I'm sorry Dave but I respect my job, my contacts through it, and the rules of these forums.
Because you chose to live your life without morals or respect does not mean we all have to!

There was at least one report of an APR pump seizure and it was the one I knew of. But yelled and bitched at by Keith that I was a liar when I said it and not a peep from him, you or the rest of the usuals when someone else backed it up.

Chris, as a company representative, you should know better than to make allegations towards other companies unless you have proof. Claiming you have information that you cannot share is not proof. 
Dave


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I agree that this is starting to spiral negative.
Let's keep the post on topic about our K04 kit.
When our pump is released, we will start a new thread, and all the controversy can start anew!
Thanks, guys. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Agreed . . . 
RE: the K04 kit . . . since you mentioned you would not provide logs since people would claim that they were falsified, can you at least provide a A/F chart from the Mustang dyno?
Dave


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
The stepped piston is simply a compromise to keep the piston weight down 


No Dave the stepped piston design is done in order to use the factory seals. A secondary benefit is it keeps the weight down.
Comments I believe about the stepped design were simply based in it could, but I never saw proof, have issues with "drag" I believe and resistance inside the pump due to air that it may "catch". Now last I checked that sounds like an air spring to me







and could in theory do the work of a stiffer spring without that weight and cost.
The problem with the stepped design is that it is difficult, but not impossible, to reinstall the factory retainer. Which is why autotech did what they did. It has seemed since the beginning that AWE will be reusing the factory retainer and supplying some sort of tooling to allow the end user to reassemble the press in tip on the retainer. This is a great idea and gets the best of all the worlds imho.
Also lets not forget that the expert opinion you keep referring to was involved with X company in the development of some of their components. That does not take away from them being an expert but it does make them biased.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Chris, as a company representative, you should know better than to make allegations towards other companies unless you have proof. Claiming you have information that you cannot share is not proof. 
Dave


EGTs what?


----------



## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_

EGTs what?

Oh that's right! I totally forgot you had never posted pics or data backing up your claim that EGT's weren't an issue! Glad you reminded us. When you get a chance you should post that up in the original thread.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
Chris you very well know there was more than just 2 APR's failures, and failures that 100% led to camshaft destruction for that matter.


This is off topic but the pictures of CSIH's cam were clear as day that it was an A cam and I in no way would point the finger at the APR pump on that. Much like Greg Alpers failure with the VF pump was clearly an A cam that had worn and would not have blamed on the pump.
While in both cases the increased pressure from the pumps may have increased the wear and caused an earlier failure then without the pump, chances are in both cases and others the cam would have worn through the follower stock and caused problems.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*FV-QR*

I'd like to see K04 logs so I can compare them to my own tune.







Chris, maybe in another thread you can post up some from that red a3 if it still has the k04. 
If the logs are from kit manufacturer thats fine. I'm doubting anyone would falsify them either because all it would take is one customer to log and show a huge difference to prove they were lying. So that being said, when either of you get a chance, can you post some up?


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
Oh that's right! I totally forgot you had never posted pics or data backing up your claim that EGT's weren't an issue! Glad you reminded us. When you get a chance you should post that up in the original thread.









Oh thats right neither did APR!
And for every log like the ones in Daves signature there is one matching it with APR software.
Point is like usual it was a negative marketing strategy starting from the same people.
I sold my stuck turbine housing so I don't have the pictures of the probe installed any longer.
I will post pictures of my new egt logging setup in a bit though


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_I'd like to see K04 logs so I can compare them to my own tune.







Chris, maybe in another thread you can post up some from that red a3 if it still has the k04. 


This is an AWE thread and logs from any of our cars or your car or any other car not running an AWE kit should not be posted here.
This has already gone way off topic...


----------



## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I sold my stuck turbine housing so I don't have the pictures of the probe installed any longer.
I will post pictures of my new egt logging setup in a bit though

Not quite the same but nice try.


----------



## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
This is an AWE thread and logs from any of our cars or your car or any other car not running an AWE kit should not be posted here.
This has already gone way off topic...

And you and GolfRS dragged it there so why stop now?


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I agree that this is starting to spiral negative.
Let's keep the post on topic about our K04 kit.



The thread went negative here:

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
There are cheaper kits on the market, but you *definitely* get what you pay for with them, speaking from first hand testing experience we have done here. Testing budget kit injectors on our FSI injector stand has been an eye opener and explains the hard starting and misfires with those kits!

Leave the negative marketing to those that have mastered it, there is no need to lower yourself to their level.
As far as I am aware every kit on the market is using either Genuine VAG injectors from an OE application or modified OE injectors. I don't see how anyone can be using budget injectors. When they all cost about the same before they are modified.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
And you and GolfRS dragged it there so why stop now?

Responding to comments supposedly said on topic are taking it off topic?
news to me.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
This is off topic but the pictures of CSIH's cam were clear as day that it was an A cam and I in no way would point the finger at the APR pump on that. Much like Greg Alpers failure with the VF pump was clearly an A cam that had worn and would not have blamed on the pump.
While in both cases the increased pressure from the pumps may have increased the wear and caused an earlier failure then without the pump, chances are in both cases and others the cam would have worn through the follower stock and caused problems.

Yes but you fail to mention 100% of APR's failures led to camshaft destruction, blaming OEM camshaft strength, whereas in Autotech's case the damage to the follower was the main culprit.
That could lead some one to believe Autotech is "kinder" to the camshaft (A or B) while being harsh to the follower, whereas APR's pump puts more strain to the camshaft by using a harder spring due to the increased piston weight...
Now i don't think anyone has ever mentioned the above...


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_

The thread went negative here:
Leave the negative marketing to those that have mastered it, there is no need to lower yourself to their level.
As far as I am aware every kit on the market is using either Genuine VAG injectors from an OE application or modified OE injectors. I don't see how anyone can be using budget injectors. When they all cost about the same before they are modified.


This needs a thread of its own, too.
I never stated that "budget" injectors were being used, I simply stated that "budget" kits are not using what we would consider to be appropriate injectors for the application. For example, the RS4 injectors that one of these budget kits is using are completely the wrong spray pattern for this engine, which is why the starts are hard and there are misfires (as measured first hand with a client car brought to us for diagnosis and also proven on our cars during development).
We have an ASNU FSI injector test stand. I think APR has one, too.
I'll start a thread later on injector testing. I think there is a lot of misinformation and false claims out there, and those of us with injector test stands perhaps need to set the record straight for the sake of the forum. Its plainly obvious that some kit injectors out there have never even been tested to confirm assumed specs.
My director of engineering is getting married today and is away for the next 10 days on his honeymoon. I'll wait till he gets back so I don't unintentionally spread bad info myself.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I never stated that "budget" injectors were being used, I simply stated that "budget" kits are not using what we would consider to be appropriate injectors for the application.


I guesss its just how you read it. Why mention budget though if you believe the injectors are not and simply the rest of the kit is budget? Although I don't see how offering a similar product at a lower price makes it budget, competitors aren't calling yours a ripoff are they?


_Quote »_
For example, the RS4 injectors that one of these budget kits is using are completely the wrong spray pattern for this engine, which is why the starts are hard and there are misfires (as measured first hand with a client car brought to us for diagnosis and also proven on our cars during development).

So GIAC is able to successfully tune for them in some applications but not yours? They are being used in other kits using GIAC software.


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected]echnik)*

Bottom line Crew219 AKA -Dave is an APR fanboy and he bashes everyone else's products. He sounds like he knows what he is talking about but hes just like the rest of them just going off what hes told. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: (brandon0221)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brandon0221* »_Bottom line Crew219 AKA -Dave is an APR fanboy and he bashes everyone else's products. He sounds like he knows what he is talking about but hes just like the rest of them just going off what hes told. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I guesss its just how you read it. Why mention budget though if you believe the injectors are not and simply the rest of the kit is budget? Although I don't see how offering a similar product at a lower price makes it budget, competitors aren't calling yours a ripoff are they?


The amount of engineering that is in these kits is what leads me to call them "budget" and is why they are lower priced, There is a place for them in the market, but all kits are not created equally here, and the forum needs to understand what they are getting involved in.
(God, if I ever do come off sounding as arrogant and condescending as APR, someone please shoot me)

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
So GIAC is able to successfully tune for them in some applications but not yours? They are being used in other kits using GIAC software.


I don't know what assumptions you are making, but GIAC has not tuned RS4 injectors successfully on any 2.0T kit, nor could they correct for the spray pattern with tuning. The combustion chamber hot spots that these injectors would cause on a 2.0T is reason enough not to even attempt to use them on a mass released kit.


----------



## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

This kit is anything but budget. I have put over 18XXX miles on my kit and 33XXX on the car without so much as a hick-up..
There is all this concern over bubget parts and what kit is priced the best. What it really comes down to is the drivability, quaility, and reliability.
There are kits priced better for sure, but look at there test time before market, failures, and drivability. I have yet to see another kit get this much attention. Either due to the company or the concern of how well this kit is and will be doing as well as all of the possitive hype involved..
As I state all the time, feel free to come for a ride or take a look. 
18XXX miles in 7 months tells me this kit is working awesome and is a great buy!!


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The amount of engineering that is in these kits is what leads me to call them "budget" and is why they are lower priced, There is a place for them in the market, but all kits are not created equally here, and the forum needs to understand what they are getting involved in.


You have absolutely nothing to back that up though unless you are there for the entire development process of another kit?
How do you have any proof at all that MORE engineering did not go into other solutions?


_Quote »_
I don't know what assumptions you are making, but GIAC has not tuned RS4 injectors successfully on any 2.0T kit, nor could they correct for the spray pattern with tuning. The combustion chamber hot spots that these injectors would cause on a 2.0T is reason enough not to even attempt to use them on a mass released kit.

So then there are unsuccessfully tuned kits out there with GIAC software?
Also are "greentops" still being supplied with the 2.7T KO4 kits? I mean its fairly bold to make comments about other people using "inferior" injectors especially due to spray pattern when for years you were supplying injectors known to be incorrect for an application, if not still.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Chris, not exactly what you asked for, but here's at least proof APR ran an EGT probe in my K04 during testing to verify temperatures were not deviating outside of the MFG's specifications. I just pulled back my K0forskin and snapped this photo with my iphone:


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Arin)*

Arin, thanks for finally doing that. Mine was mounted in exactly the same spot. The probe has just been tied up in my wiring harness since my GT35 install till this past week when it went back in with 3 friends







.


----------



## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_Chris, not exactly what you asked for, but here's at least proof APR ran an EGT probe in my K04 during testing to verify temperatures were not deviating outside of the MFG's specifications. I just pulled back my K0forskin and snapped this photo with my iphone:









That is the same spot they had the EGT in mine from the AWE's testing and developement as well.. I can also supply pics if needed!!!


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Craige-O)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Craige-O* »_
That is the same spot they had the EGT in mine from the AWE's testing and developement as well.. I can also supply pics if needed!!!

Awesome news. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Please do!


----------



## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
Awesome news. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Please do!


Will do as soon as I have the time to get the intake off....


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Craige-O)*

may not need to. I just pulled up the engine cover, stuck a lamp back behind the heat shield and held my iphone in there. and snapped a **** load of pix. One had it perfectly shown


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
You have absolutely nothing to back that up though unless you are there for the entire development process of another kit?
How do you have any proof at all that MORE engineering did not go into other solutions?

Then their results certainly leave a lot to be desired. The success of the engineering effort is in the results. Hard starting and misfires are directly related to the wrong spray pattern of the RS4 injectors used. If the injectors had actually been spray pattern tested, the issue would have been clearly seen and the hardware abandoned.


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
So then there are unsuccessfully tuned kits out there with GIAC software?

You got me. All I know is that GIAC cannot "tune out" the inherent issues of using RS4 injectors on a stock combustion chamber 2.0T. A lot of software effort went into it before the problem was identified as a hardware issue.


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Also are "greentops" still being supplied with the 2.7T KO4 kits? I mean its fairly bold to make comments about other people using "inferior" injectors especially due to spray pattern when for years you were supplying injectors known to be incorrect for an application, if not still.

LOL. No, the green tops are not still being supplied with the 2.7T kits as of 2 years ago. At the time, they were the best match to the stock spray pattern, but the problem was in the transient response (part throttle) because in essence they were a race injector. The current "green giant" type of injector supplied with our kit is much better in that category.
Plus, an pre-valve injector is a much different animal than a direct injection injector in terms of spray pattern atomization. Think about it.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I'm not "taking sides" here whatsoever on any topic, but I will say that Todd/AWE has over the years proven itself to be one of the most conservative and thorough tuners in the business.
I hope everyone can put aside whatever blinders they may have at the moment and at least take the time to consider the info being offered here. I've bee around a while myself and privy to much of the early TFSI aftermarket developments, and I'm sure as hell paying attention. 
Three years later TSFI/TSI tech is till very new to all of us and no doubt there's still much to be learned.


----------



## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: A.W.E. Tuning Mk5 K04 Turbo Kit Update ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I'm not "taking sides" here whatsoever on any topic, but I will say that Todd/AWE has over the years proven itself to be one of the most conservative and thorough tuners in the business.



Well said sir!!!


----------



## Slipstream (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: A.W.E. Tuning Mk5 K04 Turbo Kit Update (Craige-O)*

Cleaned up. Please keep the discussion on topic. If any discussions need to take place regarding an advertiser's products, please take it up with them offline or in PM. Thanks!


----------



## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: A.W.E. Tuning Mk5 K04 Turbo Kit Update ([email protected])*

Well, 19XXX miles plus on this kit and running really smooth. The only downfall is that the car likes to go fast and with this kit it does it with ease!!!


----------



## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Yes, that is the plan.
Our final production parts are scheduled to finally arrive next week. We then need to do some batch QC spot checks and then do a formal release. Here is a picture of the pump and injector kit:








Some details on the pump and what makes it unique:
Patent pending high pressure pump design, suitable for all 2.0T FSI engines.

Specialty tools included for pump component swap.

Extensively street and dyno developed.

Coating -
PVD (Plasma Vapor Deposition) application of a DLC (Diamond Like Coating) - Low friction, extreme hardness and durability. Critical for long lasting performance

Tolerances -
Piston and bore are precision ground and matched to within microns (1 micron = .00004") 

Manufacturing -
5 separate manufacturing steps including, machining, heat treatment, grinding, and coating

QC-
Each set is checked with precision digital gauges with a resolution of .00001"

Further-
Our design uses the factory fuel pump spring retainer not a generic valve spring retainer like the other pumps. 
The factory retainer has smooth beveled edges and a mirror surface finish. Pumps not using the factory retainer have sharp edges and are slightly concave in the center, resulting in less load bearing area and the potential for stress concentrations from minor piston side loads. That type of design has been attributed to increased wear on cam followers by some experts.
Pricing will be ~$400 for the pump, as a do-it-yourself install kit, complete with specialty tools (pictured) to ensure install success.

To be perfectly honest, I respect APR's pump program in terms of the R&D and technical details they have shared, though I do feel their "in house rebuild only" program is overkill. Kudos to them for bringing such a highly engineered product to market so quickly. 
I can't be so complimentary about the other pumps out there. Copycatting is not something you can get away with on this product (hence the rampant siezing issues with other pumps). Appearances are deceiving with this part and copying outward dimensions is a recipe for failure.
We invested an immense amount of time and money into this part because all indications suggest that FSI is here to stay for a long time on many different car makes, so we needed to get the technology nailed down now to ensure long term success. 
Unfortunatley, we have to start all over again with the new TSI cars, as the pump is completely different and is also a sealed unit. Engineering a solution has already begun. 



Just curious to see if there is any update on these pieces before possibly heading a different route?










_Modified by rbradleymedmd at 11:38 AM 8-1-2008_


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: (rbradleymedmd)*

The batch arrived and it did not meet our QC checks. New batch is due in Monday/Tuesday of next week and we will redo our QC checks.
This is an extremely high tolerance part and we're not taking any chances with it.


----------



## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_The batch arrived and it did not meet our QC checks. New batch is due in Monday/Tuesday of next week and we will redo our QC checks.
This is an extremely high tolerance part and we're not taking any chances with it.

Thank you Todd. I appreciate the quick response.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2008)

While we're on the discussing our Fueling Upgrade for the 2.0T, European Car Magazine recently tested this exciting new kit for the Mk5 K04 with some very impressive results! 
*31 Horsepower and 30 Lb Ft of Torque at the Wheel! *








This test was done on a DSG equipped A3 with our Mk5 K04 kit and Turboback Exhaust. The only parts added since the last test was our 2.0T Fueling Upgrade and an aftermarket intake.
Click the provided link to read the article and view the dyno charts.
http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/pdf/0908_EC.pdf


----------



## NoTsipa (Feb 26, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Great news sir . In case someone already has S3 injectors ,will AWE pump be avaliable as a stand alone part ?


----------



## das pui (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: (NoTsipa)*

would there be any problems running the fuel pump on a stock turbo?


----------



## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

I'm eyeing this kit & aiming for 380hp @ the crank
too much ?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: (das pui)*


_Quote, originally posted by *das pui* »_would there be any problems running the fuel pump on a stock turbo?

No problems. GIAC already has software in place for cars with the stock turbo and an aftermarket fuel pump.

_Quote, originally posted by *EL_3grab* »_I'm eyeing this kit & aiming for 380hp @ the crank
too much ?

This might be possible with a race gas file. Our tests show a reliable and daily drivable 355hp and 370 lb ft of torque at the crank on pump gas for our K04 Kit with the optional Fueling Kit. 
We are currently in the process of developing a Race Gas file for our K04 Kit with Fueling Kit. We don't have finals numbers yet, but will post them once they are available.


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

Alex,
How did the latest Fuel Pumps look when they arrived last week?


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I'm sold 
Race file with meth injection http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (HoldDaMayo)*

Doesn't AWE's test car being DSG make all these comparisons meaning less?


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## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (loudgli)*

Also to make things clear, my car is a *6MT* with AWE K04 kit with turbo back exhaust, 200 cell cat, VF intake, AWE pump & injectors, S3 intercooler and piping, and AWE mechanical DV. 
24XXX miles on kit and going strong!!


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## das pui (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: (Craige-O)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Craige-O* »_Also to make things clear, my car is a *6MT* with AWE K04 kit with turbo back exhaust, 200 cell cat, VF intake, AWE pump & injectors, S3 intercooler and piping, and AWE mechanical DV. 
24XXX miles on kit and going strong!! 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (Craige-O)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Craige-O* »_Also to make things clear, my car is a *6MT* with AWE K04 kit with turbo back exhaust, 200 cell cat, VF intake, AWE pump & injectors, S3 intercooler and piping, and AWE mechanical DV. 
24XXX miles on kit and going strong!! 

Craig, you dont have any track times yet do you?


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## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (loudgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *loudgli* »_
Craig*e*, you dont have any track times yet do you?

Sorry I do not. I think I will try to get it down the track at Fall Show-n-go. I myself suck at 1/4 mile driving but have someone that can do it for me.
I will post the times and a slip when I do run it.


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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (Craige-O)*

Sounds like you need to get setup with a 2 step/ WOT box and some sticky tires


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## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (loudgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *loudgli* »_Sounds like you need to get setup with a 2 step/ WOT box and some sticky tires










Hmm, might have to look into that...


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## NoTsipa (Feb 26, 2008)

*Re: (Craige-O)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Craige-O* »_ AWE mechanical DV. 

is it possible to post a pick of the DV ? Thanks mate http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (NoTsipa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoTsipa* »_
is it possible to post a pick of the DV ? Thanks mate http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Will try to get one up later today..


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## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
That's the APR way takes the focus off there poor results and most important the poor independent results of there customers







. Bob.G


I see that you have had a dealing with them on a more personal note. I read your thread from start to finish and looks like they jerked you around as well..


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## $GTI07$ (Feb 29, 2008)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

any info in the awe big turbo?????


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## adg44 (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: ($GTI07$)*

I just cleaned up this thread. This thread is for discussion about the AWE K04 turbo kit upgrade and that's it.
- Anthony


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## RED WHIP (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I just cleaned up this thread. This thread is for discussion about the AWE K04 turbo kit upgrade and that's it.
- Anthony

What Tony said...


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## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (RED WHIP)*

Great seeing everyone at AWE... Car is running awesome and the drive back to VT was a blast. Thanks for all the help and the new DV holds rock solid.


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## $GTI07$ (Feb 29, 2008)

*Re: (Craige-O)*

any updates on the big turbo from awe??


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2008)

*Re: ($GTI07$)*


_Quote, originally posted by *$GTI07$* »_any updates on the big turbo from awe??

I believe the "big" turbo is for the B7 A4.


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## casj75 (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

O-Craige.
What boost pressure are you running?
Do you have up-graded IC?


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## das pui (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: (casj75)*


_Quote, originally posted by *casj75* »_O-Craige.
What boost pressure are you running?
Do you have up-graded IC?


_Quote, originally posted by *Craige-O* »_Also to make things clear, my car is a *6MT* with AWE K04 kit with turbo back exhaust, 200 cell cat, VF intake, AWE pump & injectors, *S3 intercooler and piping*, and AWE mechanical DV. 
24XXX miles on kit and going strong!! 


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: ($GTI07$)*


_Quote, originally posted by *$GTI07$* »_any updates on the big turbo from awe??

As to my understanding they are in development and coming along. I am sure Todd or Alex will chime in. I know that when the bigger setup is ready, *I AM ALL IN!!!*
*Best company I have ever delt with in my life!!!*


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## $GTI07$ (Feb 29, 2008)

*Re: (Craige-O)*

but is it going to be for the gti???


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## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: ($GTI07$)*


_Quote, originally posted by *$GTI07$* »_but is it going to be for the gti???

Its for the MKV chassis. GTi, EOS or Jetta


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## HoldDaMayo (Feb 16, 2008)

*Re: (Craige-O)*

I got dibs on your K04 setup then...









_Quote, originally posted by *Craige-O* »_
As to my understanding they are in development and coming along. I am sure Todd or Alex will chime in. I know that when the bigger setup is ready, *I AM ALL IN!!!*
*Best company I have ever delt with in my life!!!*


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## QGMika (Jul 25, 2002)

*Re: (HoldDaMayo)*

Is it just me or the only part missing from the base kit is, how does the stock DV return air back into the intake side?


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: (Craige-O)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Craige-O* »_*Best company I have ever delt with in my life!!!*

Thanks for the kind words Craig! 


_Quote »_Is it just me or the only part missing from the base kit is, how does the stock DV return air back into the intake side?


Terrific question! This is achieved through two parts we designed in house, our Turbo Discharge Adapter and our Diverter Valve Adapter. 
In our K04 Kit, air coming out of the turbo flows through our Turbo Discharge Adapter, into our Diverter Valve Adapter and back into the compressor inlet. 
There are multiple benefits to this approach. Installation is easier, the air has a shorter, more direct path back into the compressor inlet, and it allows the use of any aftermarket intake. S3 Diverter Valve Conversions are not compatible with most aftermarket intakes; you must either modify your aftermarket intake or go back to the stock airbox. Our kit, thanks to these two pieces, can be used on any aftermarket without modification. 
We specially machine each K04 Housing before shipping in order to allow the Diverter Valve Adapter to fit. 
It’s more work for us, but it provides you with the best all around K04 Kit on the market. It is easier to install then the S3 Conversions available on the market and allows you to use any aftermarket intake without modification.


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## $GTI07$ (Feb 29, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

updates on bigger turbo??


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: ($GTI07$)*


_Quote, originally posted by *$GTI07$* »_updates on bigger turbo??

It is in the future, but there is no ETA. 
Once we have completed development on our B7 A4 Big Turbo Kit, we will be moving to the Mk5.


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