# The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post!



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Overview* Megasquirt is an aftermarket engine management system that can control fuel only (MS) or spark too (MSnS). It is a build it yourself or buy it pre-built system that can utilize most existing factory wiring and sensors, but a VW wiring harness is usually reason alone to rewire. Looking at the big picture it sounds hard, but focusing on each piece of the system one at a time makes it a fairly easy project. This post as well as others can help you with any problems.
Please Everyone chime in with your 2 cents from your own personal experience! This main page is composed of posts and links from several contributors in the VW community. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
*Use information and megasquirt settings, ve tables, and ignition tables found in this and any post at your own risk! *
*The Links:*
MegaSquirt FAQ- FIRST Thing to read
Second thing to read, formal introduction, purchasing instructions, pre-assembled kit options, it will get you started
Yahoo Megasquirt Group- Here is a forum dedicated to a anything megasquirt
Yahoo VWMegasquirt Group- A anything VW megasquirt forum/
Official Megasquirt Post in the Forced Induction Forum- Lots of information and a good post to read through check it out!
*Link to Megasquirt Ignition post ** that should eventually have all ignition info for Hall Sensor Ignition Systems!*
Timbo2132's  VW technotes site  very nice resource!! and great  wiring diagram
Martyn_16V sweet post and writeup *Definit Read* 

Captain16vGTI's *MK I Install Post * Good pictures and proof * MS can be done cheap *








 OttawaG60's clean and simple how to make an all fuel MS 2.2 system become MSnS
[email protected] - has good deals on fuel injectors and other stuff. View his home page link
 Many of your standalone parts needs can be met here! Good deals on Wideband O2, Air Intake Temp, and other sensors/wiring goodies
*Successful Installations*
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Anyone can do this project, for real.







’s for all who have got there cars up and running with it







If you want your name up here, ill put it up here. Thats how it works.
NJRrado
Engine: 9a 83.5mm JE Pistons, Scat Rods, Stock Head, Turbo
MS ver: MSnS -e 
Ignition: Stock distributor wired using MidnightGLI's diagram 
GTIMan82 (CrackerX)
87 GTI
Engine: Stock 9a, Stock 9a Head, AEM UEGO Wideband setup
MS ver: MS 2.2
Ignition: Stock CIS-E knock box ignition
parasight
Engine: 2.0 16v
MS ver: MS -extra
Ignition: Points with Vacuum advance (On way to MSnS)
s2je77
92 16V Golf
Engine: 9a, N/A 
MS ver: MS 3.0
martyn_16v
Engine: 9A with KR head and 'euro' KR cams, 50mm 'euro' manifold, 'euro' everything. 4- brach exhaust header with Techedge 2A0 wideband. Soon to have GSXR1000 itb's
MS: v2.2 board with MS'n'S-Extra 024s9
Ignition : Stock distributor using MidnightGLI's diagram. Soon to be EDIS
Other cool bits: Shift Lights
Captain16vGTI
84 Rabbit GTI
Engine: Stock 1.8 16v (PL)
MS ver: V3.0 With 024s13 code
Ignition: Stock CIS-E Knock Setup.
Cdn20valve
1993 MKI Cabriolet
Engine: 2.0 16v (9a)
MSnSE ver: V2.2 029q2 code
Ign: Stock distributor wired with LED17 spark out as per OttawaG60
Inputs: LC1 Wideband, GM IAT, GM CLT, Passat 16v auto TB
Outputs: Knock Sensor (KnocksenseMS), PWM Idle control (DIGI II ISV)
mjleamy
1991 Jetta GLI 16V
Engine: 2.0L 16v, i.e. the 9A
MS: v2.2 board with MSnS-Extra 029q2 from Patatron
Ign: MSnS-E using 16v distributor and a digi Bosch ignition module
injectors: Digi2 18.7 lb/hr
chadr
1990 Jetta GLI 16V
Engine: 2.0L, TT Street Cams, TT exhaust
MS: V3 board with MSnS-Extra high res code ver 0.08f
Ign: MSnS-E using 16v distributor and MS V3 board ignition module
injectors: 42 lb/hr
Link on msruns.com
*Programs or Tools*
There are several computer programs needed to interact with the megasquirt unit, and they can be found under the files section in the Yahoo groups forum link above. They are fairly straight forward in use, except the tuning program. The manual is a must read.
*List of hardware needed from stock CIS-E to Megasquirt:*
-TPS : I recommend a TPS from an automatic passat. The TPS is used for fuel enrichement reactions to throttle inputs. MSII and MSnS -extra code allow for no TPS to be used. Instead the rate of change of the MAP sensor signal is used to calculate fuel enrichements.
-Fuel Rail 
-Electronic fuel injectors and harness. See injector choices below.
-DIGI-II fuel injector holders. They will thread right into the 16V manifold
-Adjustable fuel pressure regulator
-High pressure fuel injection hose and fuel injection clamps. (Autozone, Advance)
-Big Bore Intake with cone air filter. You dont have to have the big bore intake, but its easier to find a cone filter to fit that instead of the stock intake pipe.
-Intake air temp sensor. You can plumb this in the manifold behind the throttle body with a tap set, or silicone it into an intake pipe. Intake pipe is recommended.
-Wideband O2 sensor w/ gauge. (recommended) The wideband will seriously help you adjust things to damn near perfect and make it that much more of an enjoyable experience. A perfectly tuned 16V on megasquirt is just awesome!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
*Sensor choices-Coolant, Air Temp, and TPS*:
When following the megamanual in regards to putting the main control unit together and picking the control bias resistor for the sensor inputs... I chose to use the standard 2.2K resistors and use the EasyTherm program to modify the megasquirt control unit for proper sensor interpretation. Basically EasyTherm tells megasquirt how to interpret your choice of sensor. 
The stock 16V coolant temp sensor, and a stock Digi II?? (I think) air temp sensor work great. The Bentley manual has graphical read outs for both sensors. The resistance is on one axis, and temperature on another. Using the EasyTherm program, one can easily grab points from the graph and stick them into the program. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The stock automatic 16V passat throttle body, and *throttle cable holder* (they are different from stock!) bolt right up to a factory 16V manifold and work fine. The automatic already has a TPS on it, so just grab the three pin harness and follow the instructions on how to figure out which wire is which located Here-click sensors and wiring on the leftl. Newer versions of MS such as MSII and MSnS -extra do not require a TPS. They use the MAPdot to figure accel and decel enrichments. 
There is only one vacuum port left on the intake manifold after the automatic throttle body install, but you can run up to an auto parts store and pick up a variety pack of vacuum T fittings or *make your own vacuum distribution block.* Also, there is no idle screw so you have to adjust the resting position of the throttle. When you do this, you have to recalibrate the TPS sensor using MegaTune. (takes like 2 seconds)

*Ignition*
Motronic users need to hook up MSnS -extra 
If you are running CIS-E, you can use your stock ignition! Simply leave the factory ignition/computers connected and when you are ready to start the car just turn her over








Tach Wire: 
If you hook up MSnS then you don’t have to worry about the tach signal, it comes directly from the distributor. 
The (-) lead on the coil typically has a lot of noise in the signal. A much easier and cleaner approach is to grab the green wire coming from the 3 pin distributor harness. Simply attach the tach wire to it. Somebody scared me about that wire being high voltage or potentially being high voltage. Because I didnt want to worry about it I added 3kohm resistor inline with the megasquirt tach lead to this source. Is it necessary? Probably not, but I know the max current that can flow through the 3kohm resistor is very low. Some peoples setups have it, some dont. Mine works fine with it in there. 
*Link to Megasquirt Ignition post that should eventually have all ignition info for Hall Sensor Ignition Systems!*
Fuel Lines
For the fuel lines I just cut the stock factory lines AFTER the hardware fitting lines so that later on I can install some steel braided lines. Autozones and other places do sell Goodyear brand high pressure fuel line. Thats what I used to connect everything and it is working fine.
The middle fuel line that went to the charcoal canister is some kinda emissions thing. I dont honestly know if you can simply plug it... For now I ran mine up and then back down into a strut tower bar bolt hole. Only thing is, when I had a full tank of fuel I jacked the car up, and when I let it back down... gas came out of it! Not cool!! 
*Anyone got any ideas on what "should" be done with this thing?* 
Fuel Injectors
For fuel injectors I am have successfully ran stock 19#/hr DIGI-II fuel injectors. I have adjusted my fuel pressure regulator to 50 PSI, and they work fine at around a max 65% duty cycle. 
I also used DIGI-II fuel injector holders, they threaded right into the 16V manifold. The settings for this in MegaTune are Simultaneous, 2 injections per cycle, Required fuel:16.8.
I now have 48# injectors and am going to try to use both injector banks to do it. When UltraMegasquirt comes out I plan on doing sequential injection.








 Constants  Updated 05/2004
DIGI II Injector constants pictured below








If you have an idle screw or idle issues with my VE map try Ottawa G60’s. Also, you might want to check his constants. He has a megatune msq file available for download from a link in this post:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1805445 

Enrichments Updated 08/03/2004
The Exhaust gas correctoin settings are set for tuning.
The EGO step % should be 1 and EGO limit 10 or so for normal driving.
The acceleration enrichments are now just about perfect
Warmup settings are pretty good:thumbup: But there is still some hesitation on heavy throttle inputs from idle. Gentle inputs do pretty well.








VE Table Updated 08/03/2004
A Wide Band O2 unit will SIGNIFICANTLY decrease tuning time and is awesome for achieving perfect or desired air/fuel ratios. There is an already calibrated sensor and control unit that can be purchased for about $346. Its the AEM UEGO sensor part number 30-2301. It can be found for this price here http://www.roadraceengineering.com/ems.htm just scroll down a little. There may be better prices out there.

My car idles around 30KPA and most acceleration runs jump immediately to 60+ on the map sensor.
The car also went down to around ~12 KPA when I let off of the throttle at high RPMS and about 20 KPA on decel on lower RPMS
Also, the RPM points may work better if you have one where you reach your Peak HP value. For instance, My car currently reaches peak at about 5800 RPMS on the Dyno, but if I had a point of reference there at 5800 I could possibly tune it for a little more HP. 
At WOT you are tunning between two MAP points (90KPA and 100KPA)for each RPM value. The car fluctuates around 95 RPM which makes tuning the WOT points a little more difficult. Keep in mind that it is sometimes necessary to adjust BOTH points to get the desired change.
You can also see where the Peak HP (5800) RPMS is reached. After the peak power is reached the VE has to decrease to maintain the desired air fuel ratio. This value for max power is close to where most stock 2.0’s max out. I am going to say that the factory ignition and a bad knock sensor are keeping the max power at such a low RPM.
*new stuff
The VE Table is really great up to about 4200 RPMS. Its got some holes after that but its still pretty good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif You can see the developing torque curve much more clearly now. It is more linear compared to before where it was more of a rounded curve. The colors can be confusing as to the actual progression of the percentages, but they are a pretty close representation.
In the future I am going to move the RPM points around to try and tweak my max HP and I will have that tuned better soon. Anyways, this is a great starting point, and the picture is updated below. Just right click on the first link to save the VE table to your computer.
http://members.cox.net/cracker...t.vex








You might also want to check out OttawaG60’s VE table/settings. Again, they are available for download here
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1805445 

How to tune your VE maps
*MSTweakComes with some good documentation in PDF Format that you should read before beginning to tune the VE map.* There are different settings you need to use for different RPM Ranges. When tuning those ranges you can also setup MSTweak to exclude other RPM ranges from the data by setting the min and max RPM in MSTweak to the specific range you are tuning.
Here is a brief overview, It tells you all this in a lot more detail in the PDF File that comes with MSTweak3000.
Set up your ignition events per second for the different RPM ranges you are tuning. If you want to tune the 1000-4000 range you need to have your stuff in the enrichments set up for that RPM range. Basically, set the Ignition Events per second to about 28-32 and your step% to about 1-2% (2 for more of a rough map).  Also, the limit being set to 75% is probably fine, but for tuning puposes you might as well put it at 100%. 
For higher RPM ranges 4000-7000 Set your ignition events per step to 64 and your step % to about 3. 
Once the map is set correctly or very very close, you probably want to put the limit down to 5-10% and your step to 1%. 
Now, thats just megatune enrichment settings.. *Be sure to setup mstweak correctly.* 
VE Range settings: the min RPM equal to megatunes EGO Active Above RPM value... ( Mine is 800 now) and the Max RPM set to 10000 is fine, max Map to 100 is fine for NA. 
VE Range Calculation: Should be set to Average, with Outlier Elimination checked. Sigma should be 1.8 or so, and your EGO Crossover Voltage should be .5 for a narrow band, or the target voltage you want from your wideband. (For My calibrated wideband sensor its 3.5340 for about 13.2:1.) 
Data Filtering and Fitting: Use 2 step with the second filter% about 1/2 the first one. Also, you should set the first filter from 60-85% Moving higher as your VE table gets closer to what it should be.
Again, most of that tuning information is in the PDF file that comes with mstweak.
I really hope this helps everyone. Megasquirt requires you to read a crapload of information but you don’t have to know it all at once. If you focus on where you are at in the overall project, then it is much more easy stay sane. Order it, assemble it, test it, install it, check over installation, and then try to configure it.

*Just some pics of my initial install... I am constantly changing things on this car, but here is how it looked when I first got it done *
































As you can see, not the best install! I have moved the relay board to the old CIS-E computer location next to the Ign Module and have rewired/cleaned up my whole engine bay. 

_Modified by GTIMan82 at 2:49 PM 12-27-2006_

_Modified by GTIMan82 at 7:02 AM 12-28-2006_

_Modified by GTIMan82 at 7:02 AM 12-28-2006_

_Modified by GTIMan82 at 11:49 AM 2-4-2007_


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 3:38 PM 11-21-2007_


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

Hopefully my kits come soon. How long did it take you to put everything together. I got the relay board and stimulator too. I am gonna get it running with the stock ignition and then put on the EDIS stuff. Does anyone need an EDIS-4 setup? I got two spares.


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## Jetta2dr (Feb 19, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Are you still using the stock cis-e fuel pump? Or did you switch to a lower pressure unit?


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Jetta2dr)*

You can use the stock pump, since you will be using a fuel pressure regulator on the rail.


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

Didn't get you IM. 
That's not that bad, I will be happy if it takes me twice that time. 
P.S. I put up a megasquirt for VWs forum on my site just now, if anyone wants to use it. I hate the format of the stupid yahoo groups. The address is http://hex3.com/megasquirt


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (plohip)*

You forgot the most important site-
*http://www.megasquirt.info*


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (PowerDubs)*

Excellent timing, I'm installing my CIS-E MS tomorrow!
I'll post any useful info I can add.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

I have dynoed my 16v, so I plunked the values into the MS tool.
http://www.megasquirt.info/manual/vetable.htm 
And generated a table:
Copy and paste that into myFile.vex
I'll let you know how well it works and if it can be used as a baseline table to get you started.
EVEME 1.0 //VEX format version 
UserRev: 1.02 
UserComment: Automatically generated 
Date: 05-05-2004 
Time: 14:05 
Page 0 
VE Table RPM Range [ 8] # expressed in RPM/100 
[ 0] = 8 
[ 1] = 13 
[ 2] = 23 
[ 3] = 33 
[ 4] = 43 
[ 5] = 52 
[ 6] = 62 
[ 7] = 72 
VE Table Load Range (MAP) [ 8] 
[ 0] = 20 
[ 1] = 30 
[ 2] = 45 
[ 3] = 55 
[ 4] = 65 
[ 5] = 80 
[ 6] = 90 
[ 7] = 100 
VE Table [ 8][ 8] 
[ 0] [ 1] [ 2] [ 3] [ 4] [ 5] [ 6] [ 7] 
[ 0] = 24 24 42 55 61 59 56 53 
[ 1] = 24 24 45 59 65 63 60 57 
[ 2] = 24 25 50 65 72 70 67 64 
[ 3] = 24 26 52 69 76 74 70 67 
[ 4] = 24 28 55 73 80 78 74 70 
[ 5] = 24 30 60 79 87 84 80 76 
[ 6] = 24 31 63 83 91 88 84 80 
[ 7] = 24 33 66 87 95 93 88 84


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (PowerDubs)*

I just threw the link up there, along with some pictures of my settings








Ottawa I think you just missed them








As far as the VE table goes, I find that the auto-generated one works well, but you may want to edit your map bins and ignition bins from the standpoint of where the engine operates for the most power, or where it operates most often. I think it might work nicer if the points are slightly more closer together where you expect peak power and for idle(if you care about it idling well). At least thats how I feel after tuning mine to the table I have. But it does work fine now, but the A/F ratio graph was a little bumpy around max power. Anyways good luck man! I hope you notice a huge improvement http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif After getting mine on the road I had a smile plastered to my face!


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## detvw (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (plohip)*

Just registered for your board. Now we just need some discussion there.
_Quote, originally posted by *plohip* »_Didn't get you IM. 
That's not that bad, I will be happy if it takes me twice that time. 
P.S. I put up a megasquirt for VWs forum on my site just now, if anyone wants to use it. I hate the format of the stupid yahoo groups. The address is http://hex3.com/megasquirt


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_I just threw the link up there, along with some pictures of my settings








Ottawa I think you just missed them










Oooops









_Quote »_
As far as the VE table goes, I find that the auto-generated one works well, but you may want to edit your map bins and ignition bins from the standpoint of where the engine operates for the most power, or where it operates most often. I think it might work nicer if the points are slightly more closer together where you expect peak power and for idle(if you care about it idling well). At least thats how I feel after tuning mine to the table I have. But it does work fine now, but the A/F ratio graph was a little bumpy around max power. Anyways good luck man! I hope you notice a huge improvement http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif After getting mine on the road I had a smile plastered to my face!
















I've also tuned an SDS before, so this isn't my first stab at PEM.
Have you used MSTweak? How did it refine the bins?


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

It refined the bins fairly well, I could feel definite improvements each time I did it... and an overall "pattern" began to form... but after MsTweak seemed to be happy with where the VE Table was I took it to the dyno and was able to tune another 15HP. I think the MsTweak would work a lot better if I had the wideband O2 sensor installed. 
Either way, its a good place to start.


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (detvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *detvw* »_Just registered for your board. Now we just need some discussion there.

lol, yep. I am gonna go and post the link to a few dozen sties tomorrow.


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## adidas_mc (Apr 26, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (plohip)*

why is megasquirt better than sds, other than being laptop tuneable?


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (adidas_mc)*

Price!


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (plohip)*

Here is the official MS forum http://www.msefi.com/ And there are actually people using it, not like mine.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (adidas_mc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adidas_mc* »_why is megasquirt better than sds, other than being laptop tuneable?

I have had an SDS and I wouldn't say it's better.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

Ok, mines installed, I'll be tuning it soon, I'll post anything I find interesting.


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## detvw (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

bump


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (detvw)*

I used CrackerX's .vex file from above, it's pretty much bang on.
Great MAP for anyone with a stock or near stock 16v (I've got some euro goodies).
Big thanks to CrackerX for the MAP.
My cold starts still leave something to be desired, but all in good time as my O2 seems to be on the fritz.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*


_Quote »_Enrichments
The Exhaust gas correctoin settings are set for tuning.
Setting the EGO step % to 75 and ignition events per step to 32 enables the logging option in MegaTune to grab lots of data points for MegaTweak.

events should be closer to the number of cylinders you have I think, as that is how many injector firings before it takes a reading.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttawaG60* »_events should be closer to the number of cylinders you have I think, as that is how many injector firings before it takes a reading.

Yea I got that from someone else, but I definitly got a LOT of points from putting in 32 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







You definitly want 8 or so for regular driving. 
I am Glad the VE map worked out for you!


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

So I just scale the table for my different req_fuel, since I have larger injectors? Right?


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (plohip)*

VE table, once set, should never change unless you do some thing physical to the engine.
REQ_FUEL, ya, just change that, I'm using G60 injectors, so mine is different


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

CrackerX, do you have decel bucking problems?


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

So what did you guys do with the origional wiring? just zip-tied it out of the way?


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (plohip)*

Much of the original wiring stays, like the dash coolant sensor etc...
I tiewrapped things out of the way until I am sure that I can remove them.


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

After problems with the manufaturer of the CNC'd cases, Glen has shipped my stuff today. He is in AL and I am in GA, I am hoping to have it monday or tuesday. I need to finnish my fuel rail, get some new injector o-rings, and run my wires. Should have everything ready for the install by Monday. Once I get it driving and install my tires I am going to start work on the EDIS-4 stuff.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttawaG60* »_CrackerX, do you have decel bucking problems?

Not really decel, but accel. I have pretty much smoothed out the accel... but it still bucks a little every now and again. I think I need to continue to decrease my accel enrichments...,
There is a field in the enrichments page for decel fuel % I think if you are bucking you may find the engine flooding or leaning out. Try to mess with the decel enrichment and see what happens... Being able to adjust it on the fly should enable you to get it set better quickly http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

I set my decel down to 80% helped out.
I figured since our setups are so close, we'd be encountering the same tuning issues.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

To be honest I have not driven it in about 2 weeks so i dont really remember if it does that... I dont think it does







maybe... I have had it up in the air to space out the rear stub axles, and I also have to try to install these ITB's i just picked up.







They should really ROCK on stock cams and stock head


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

My kits from Glen's garage got here yesterday. I started soldering everything today. This was my first time soldering on a PCB. I think I did pretty well. At least until I put a capacitor in wrong and fried it, on the mail ms unit. Damn you C15!! I am hoping that a local electronics supply place has a replacement, radio shack didn't of course. Everything else looks fine though. I tested all of the joints and they are all good. I also got to the power supply test step of the ms unit. Everything tested fine on it and then the cap. exploded. Here are some pictures, cause I am board.

I think these look pretty good for the very first time. I re-did some of the bloby ones.








Success!

























MegaStim!


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (plohip)*

Dont look bad







Dont forget to put your jumper wire on the relay board for the fast idle relay, and I hope you can find a capacitor somewhere local. Radioshack never had ANYTHING I needed for this project, that place has a skelton circuit components inventory now...


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## detvw (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

My stuff from Glen's Garage arrived yesterday, will be starting very soon!


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (detvw)*

Assembly was soo easy the way that Glen bags and labels everything. 
I finaly found a place that sells that capacitor! Gonna get it tomorrow morning.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

hey Cracker, how did u adjust your idle with the passat throttle body? i have the same one and there isn't an idle adjustment screw.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

My Passat TB has an idle screw.
If it doesn't, you can just adjust your VE table around idle


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_hey Cracker, how did u adjust your idle with the passat throttle body? i have the same one and there isn't an idle adjustment screw.

Yea I had the same problem... Its a simple fix, the Throttle body is COMPLETELY closed in its current state. The stock injection was counting on the idle air bypass system to provide enough air for the engine to operate at idle properly. To fix it simply change the resting position of the lever arm that the throttle cable connects to. Its a little 7mm? 6mm? nut on a small threaded rod that determines the resting position. Loosen the nut and screw it so that the throttle body is a tad bit open when it is in the closed position. Play around with it until you are idling where you want, and then simply recalibrate the TPS in MegaTune and you should be good to go. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

Well, I got everything built and tested. Everything works great. The only problem I had was blowing that capacitor, but I got a new one today. I just need to install everything now.


_Modified by plohip at 12:17 PM 5-28-2004_


----------



## groov2 (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: (plohip)*

Just wondering....
Can you get everything you need for megasquirt from Glen's Garage?


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (groov2)*

Everything but the sensors and wiring stuff.


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_
Yea I had the same problem... Its a simple fix, the Throttle body is COMPLETELY closed in its current state. The stock injection was counting on the idle air bypass system to provide enough air for the engine to operate at idle properly. To fix it simply change the resting position of the lever arm that the throttle cable connects to. Its a little 7mm? 6mm? nut on a small threaded rod that determines the resting position. Loosen the nut and screw it so that the throttle body is a tad bit open when it is in the closed position. Play around with it until you are idling where you want, and then simply recalibrate the TPS in MegaTune and you should be good to go. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

thx, thats what i was thinking i had to do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

For those of you that are done, where did you mount the megasquirt unit? I should be completly done this weekend, but I don't know where I want to mount it.


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (plohip)*

If I can find something to take out the 16v injector inserts, the car will start today!


----------



## ErosNJ (Oct 21, 2002)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

What happens to the unit when a sensor craps out? 
How does it affect the control unit? Does it use an average value from a recovery mode?


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (ErosNJ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ErosNJ* »_What happens to the unit when a sensor craps out? 
How does it affect the control unit? Does it use an average value from a recovery mode? 









It runs with whatever value it sees. I had a wiring problem or 2, both my coolant and MAT sensors, say the same value and it was 6C, the megaSquirt isn't smart enough to know that that's not right (how could it) so it runs with what it sees.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

Can anyone do a full blown how to use the CIS ignition module post on here? With pictures of MsNspark screen shots, wiring diagrams, and nice descriptions? I plan on doing that really soon, and the info is spread out between several other posts/websites. I will if I have to but I am hoping someone else may already have it setup and running?


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_Can anyone do a full blown how to use the CIS ignition module post on here? With pictures of MsNspark screen shots, wiring diagrams, and nice descriptions? I plan on doing that really soon, and the info is spread out between several other posts/websites. I will if I have to but I am hoping someone else may already have it setup and running?

why don't u compile all of the related info into this thread and then we can try and make sense of it all. only reason i ask you to do it is because you've been to and read the other posts from other websites. yahoo groups megasquirtnspark (or something similar) seemed to have a bunch of good info.


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

**straight from one of the megasquirtnspark file folders**
The ignition module is used to fire the coil at the command
of the MSS. MSS pin 30 (FIDle) is either grounded when it is time 
for spark, or with inverted output option the ground is released.
The output returns after 1/4 of the period.
NOTE the MSS does NOT control the dwell, this has to be done
by the ignition module. 
Most advanced ignition modules do this automatically 
depending on battery voltage, coil resistance etc.
When battery power is low (cold winter morning) an advanced
ignition module senses this and prolongs the dwell period.

The Bosch module 0 227 100 137 / 0 227 100 139 is designed to be used with Hall effect 
and also takes care of the coil dwell period. 
The module trigger when pin 6 is grounded, but the dwell control prevents 
it to create a spark at the first trigger.
Pin layout
1) Coil -
2) Ground
3)
4) 12V
5) Hall+
6) Hall-
7) Tach signal
If you use this module make sure you get the coil too. 
Normally there should be a label on the coil saying it is for use in transistorized ignitions.
This module has been used in a number of cars:
Alfa Romeo
75	2.0i T-Spark	87-92
164	2.0i T-Spark	87-92*
164	3.0/3.0-24V	87-92
Audi
80	1.6/1.8 76-86
80	2.0 83-91*
80	2.2 Quattro	81-84
90	2.2/2.3 84-91*
100	1.8E 82-86
100	2.0i 78-86
100	2.2i 82-89
200	2.2 80-83
Coupé	2.2i/Quattro	81-86
Opel
Ascona	1.6 82-83
Ascona	1.6/1.8 83-86*
Kadett	1.6S 82-84
Kadett	1.8i 85-86*
Manta	2.0E 78-88
Monza	3.0 GSE 78-83
Monza	3.0 GSE 84-86*
Rekord	1.8S 83-86*
Rekord	2.0S/E 78-86
Senator	3.0E 78-87
Senator 3.0E 88*
Saab
99	all 84
900	2.0 GL-Turbo	84-88
9000	2.0-16V 85-86
9000	2.0-16V Turbo	85-93
Volkswagen
Golf	1.6 84-88*
Golf	1.8/16V/GTI	83-86
Jetta	1.6 84-86
Jetta	1.8/GT 84-86
Passat	1.6 81-88
Passat	1.8 83-87
Passat	1.9 81-83
Passat	2.0 83-84
Passat	2.2 81-88
Polo	1.3 86
Santana	1.8/2.0 83-84
Scirocco 80-83
Transporter 79-82
Volvo
240	all 85-87
740	2.3 (B230A)	85-86

* = Not all cars of this model uses the module
Make sure the right Bosch number is on the plastic casing
This list is only a guideline to where you can find the module, there might be more cars fitted with module



















_Modified by MidnightGLI at 2:13 PM 6-2-2004_


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

How you should connect a Hall sensor to the MSS all depends on 
what comes out of the Hall sensor.
Turn the engine until cylinder 1 should fire.
Turn the distributor until the rotor point to the contact for
cylinder 1 in the distributor cap.
Make sure one of the metal finger edges are close to the Hall
sensor, either going in or out will be fine.
Turn the engine backwards until the edge is well out of the 
Hall sensor. Measure the output voltage from the Hall sensor
Turn the engine forward until the edge has passed through the
Hall sensor. Measure the output voltage.
If both voltages are low, attach a pullup resistor to the
output. A 1K resistor will probably be fine. Test again
If the output goes from high to low you should use schematic 1
If the output goes from low to high you should use schematic 2


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

How to set triggers to get MSS started 
1) Set the crank at TDC
2) Rotate the distributor (opposite direction) just until middle LED turns
OFF (sets the crank angle)
3) Make sure the rotor arm points towards the correct contact in the
distributor cap
4) Fix the distributor
5) Turn engine backwards until middle LED turns ON (should be almost 
immediately) and continue turning until it turns OFF again
6) Measure angle BTDC (+/- 10 degrees is good enough) at the crank
7) Enter measured angle in "Trigger angle"
8) Enter "Fixed angle" to 10 degrees
9) Start the engine
10) Adjust "Trigger angle" until the timing light is at 10 degrees
11) Set "Fixed angle" to 0
12) Start tuning


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

alright, everything is installed. The car just cranks so far, I don't have a notebook that I can use tonight so I will trouble shoot tomorrow. For the guys that have it running, did you jumper D8? Or are you using the diode. I have the diode in there but it is jumpered. 
Once I can actually hook up to the megasquirt to see if I am getting the tach signal or not I should at least be a little closer to fixing it. I am not worried yet.







It could be a number of things. At least I know it is not the MS unit, since that works on the stim. It has to be either my wiring, tach signal, or injectors. 
Wish me luck.


----------



## ErosNJ (Oct 21, 2002)

*Re: (plohip)*

MAke sure you have it powered by a circuit that has power on cranking.
VWs turn off a lot of circuits when cranking.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (plohip)*

Did you ever calibrate your TPS? I assume you loaded your VE Map and settings from a desktop computer?? Once it runs you will love it


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (ErosNJ)*

I think that is the problem, because the relays click off when I crank. I have 12v to the battery and ground to the transmission, but where should I get the switched 12v from? That is the one that turns off while cranking. 


_Modified by plohip at 9:33 AM 6-6-2004_


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (plohip)*

I hooked it up to the fuel pump switch 12v and it almost started! I forgot to adjust my passat TB and my battery is dying from trying to crank last night. Almost there.


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (plohip)*

I got everything figured out now. It almost fired up but I need to charge my battery or wait for someone to come home so I can get a jump. It fired twice while cranking but then the battery completly died.


_Modified by plohip at 12:52 PM 6-6-2004_


----------



## lasvegas16vgti (Sep 11, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

I considering this for my 2.1L Autotech rebuild of my 1.8L 16V. Any opinions? Other mods to do at the same time? Suggested engine recipe?
Can someone put into words the driving difference between CIS-E and Megasquirt?
Any pics of a completed CIS-E conversion.
Thanks in advance!


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (lasvegas16vgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lasvegas16vgti* »_I considering this for my 2.1L Autotech rebuild of my 1.8L 16V. Any opinions? Other mods to do at the same time? Suggested engine recipe?
Can someone put into words the driving difference between CIS-E and Megasquirt?
Any pics of a completed CIS-E conversion.
Thanks in advance!









Much smoother. Butt dyno says there is more power, but I haven't had a chance to dyno yet.


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

It runs! I had a multitude of idiot problems. First, the plugwires were wrong, the timing was too retarded, and I was dumpin too much fuel. It runs much smoother and sounds better. I just need to hook up the wideband for some more tuning. Once I finnish my brakes though. Thanks for everyone's help.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (plohip)*








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

i have a kr, have ms completed, bout to start harness, cannot find out where the original intake air temp sensor is tho? can someone point me in the right direction?
1.8KR CIS....
Am completely removing the intake box and plumbing, and have a new intake cone (RSD metal surround, v.nice - with a metal intake plumbing section to the throttlebody with twin outlet - 1 for ISV, prob use the other to screw in the suggested GM sensor??)


_Modified by vdublegend at 3:00 PM 6-15-2004_


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (vdublegend)*

There isn't an original CIS one. Either get the GM one or use a digi-2 one


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttawaG60* »_There isn't an original CIS one. Either get the GM one or use a digi-2 one

Yea one of those will work, I think mark 3's have intake air temp sensors as well, I am pretty sure some of the later 8v's do..


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

Yeah will do, its a pressure dependant FI system, so this would automatically take in to account intake air temp> air density... thanks


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

Here is a quick video of the car actually running. This was before I had the fuel leak. The rail was temporarily held onto the manifold with 8 zip-ties (black), once the engine warmed up the ties loosened and I got gas everywhere. It will be fixed tomorrow though. 
The video is a flash video, so just open it up in your browser.


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: (plohip)*

Do a video of it idling....and then drive it so we can see how it runs under load... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (PowerDubs)*

should be up and running tomorrow or saturday. Will post the vids then.


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (plohip)*

Hey guys, would you guys want a page with VW related megasquirt files? If you want to send me a msq or vex I will put it up with a short description of your setup. email to [email protected] subject megasquirt files.


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (plohip)*

Anyone else finnish their install? Oh and BUMP.


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

On my way to finishing a complete strip down and rebuild (AtariMaster style), rebore, pistons, bearings, new valves, guides and seals, gaskets, oil and water pump, the lot, and in the process caught the vorex bug and started pi**ing loads more than i intended to on it.








Have just finished the wiring harness, lying on the floor behind me, along with all the new runs of cable for the injector power, have the ms unit, in the extruded ally box finished and working with the stim. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Have purchased a RMR fuel rail with g60 fuel reg, and 30lb/hr injectors.
Have the engine in bits, all cleaned up, just had the block bored, new 83mm pistons and rods balanced, intermed. shaft checked, polished crank, new h.d. main + rod bearings, lightened and balanced flywheel, new p/p and clutch.
Finished my own p&p with the standard abrasives deluxe kit, gasket matched the intake and knife edged the dividers, cleaned up knife edged and polished the exhaust side, left the valve bowls (not too bad as-is, and didnt want to damage a valve seat and make a perfect head useless!)
Awaiting delivery of all the goodies for the head - TT 276's, autotech springs with ti. retainers, autotech adj. cam gear, lightweight lifters from Alex (Scirroco55?).
Have a 4-1 exh. manifold, with welded in 02 sensor, Passat throttlebody with tps, vw motorsports windage tray, ARP head and rod bolts, TM tuning RSD filter.
Once this lot is all together, hook up the harness, and harness the potential!











_Modified by vdublegend at 7:58 AM 6-23-2004_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (vdublegend)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Damn man, you go ahead!! Hope it works out well! 
Edit: You are definitly gonna have to adjust my VE table if you use it, as your car will be making more power after 6000 RPMS. You will probably want to step down all the % values using megatune and then manually adjust the values after the 6k RPM bank. You will get the hang of this after awhile but be careful! I would go to a dyno and get an A/F curve to adjust it from. Or pick yourself up a Widband O2 unit.... Remember the REQ Fuel value * VE%(+-)?(sensor stuff) is what actually gets sprayed. You can adjust the REQ fuel values as specified in the manual and lower the VE% so that they stay under 95 or so. Probably better to just read the manual a few times http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif



_Modified by CrackerX at 5:24 AM 6-27-2004_


----------



## lasvegas16vgti (Sep 11, 2003)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

I'm watchin' you guys and considering this conversion myself. Please post some pics of your efforts under the hood!


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (lasvegas16vgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lasvegas16vgti* »_I'm watchin' you guys and considering this conversion myself. Please post some pics of your efforts under the hood!

I will do so soon, in the middle of some other mods http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

Hey cracker, where did you locate the IAT sensor?
Are you using the OE mechanical FIDLE valve? Do you need to plumb in the Aux Air Regulator to enable this form of warm up enrichment, i hear loads of people talking about the Aux Air Reg - When i thought the FIDLE valve was all that was needed - after all the Aux Air Reg is plumbed into the exisiting CIS and has fuel lines to the 5th injector.....


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (vdublegend)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdublegend* »_Hey cracker, where did you locate the IAT sensor?
Are you using the OE mechanical FIDLE valve? Do you need to plumb in the Aux Air Regulator to enable this form of warm up enrichment, i hear loads of people talking about the Aux Air Reg - When i thought the FIDLE valve was all that was needed - after all the Aux Air Reg is plumbed into the exisiting CIS and has fuel lines to the 5th injector..... 

I called up a buddy in PA and I think he pulled it off of his 98 2.0 crossflow setup for me. He was in the middle of swapping in a 1.8T in his MKIII GTI.
I am pretty sure most of the MKIII 2.0 cross flows.... oh your in the UK and I dont think they had those there. Well, I can guess that the MKIII Injection systems had IAT sensors. I would check the junkyards and try to locate one on a MKIII.
As for the Aux Air Reg or the Idle Air Stabalizer Valves.... Screw them. You dont need them at all. I put mine on to try it out and its worthless, it idled at 1600k and then 1400k once it cut off. If I adjusted the idle down somewhat it still wasnt beneficial.... Simply adjust your idle air bypass screw or adjust the resting position of the Throttle plate. 


_Modified by CrackerX at 4:19 AM 7-1-2004_


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

Good info man. Im glad you said screw them cos i was getting a headache with all this idle crap....
As for the IAT i have actually sourced a solid brass ended (enclosed) type from an 8v digi, but i was wondering where you acutally located the thing, where you plumbed it into?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (vdublegend)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdublegend* »_Good info man. Im glad you said screw them cos i was getting a headache with all this idle crap....
As for the IAT i have actually sourced a solid brass ended (enclosed) type from an 8v digi, but i was wondering where you acutally located the thing, where you plumbed it into?

Oh ok. Well, i wish I took pictures. I went to the local bolt store, "York" bolt, and picked up a tap that matched the threads of the sensor. After doing this I plumbed it into my intake manifold behind the small butterfly valve from underneath. I used special heat resistant tape to protect if from the heat of the exhaust manifold. I spaced it with a washer and sealed it with an O-ring. It sticks up about 3/4" inside the intake manifold. 
It is probably a very stupid place to put it... but my metal "big bore" intake, 20hp gain!!!(kidding), doesnt have thick enough metal to tap into. The manifold is flat, and it was easy to tap. Be careful if you do the same thing, Aluminum is soft and it is easy to tap off center. Try to get the manifold level and try to use a drill with a sight bubble. I have had no problems in reference to it being over the manifold. The temperatures are reasonable after the car warms up... 100 when driving, 120 sitting. 
Hope that helps! Anyone with a better place to put the sensor please post it up!


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

What do you think to locating it in the 5th injector spot?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (vdublegend)*

I thought about it, but then I thought if it is going to be of any good value, it must have air flowing over it constantly. Thats why I ended up putting it behind the small butterfly in the intake manifold. That butterfly is always open first, and air will surely be flowing over it. There or in the intake tube should be fine.
Now that I think about it, I could have tried to mount it into the intake tube. I could have probably used a nut on the inside of the tube and some o-rings or silicone to hold it in place. If mounted from the bottom it would'nt be an eyesore either. Anywhere in the air stream would probably work fine.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

I put a IAT into the tube right after the Air filter.


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

cheers guys, was hoping of making something useful of the empty spot where the 5th injector went, but i suppose it does need a constant flow, and that small funnel would def not supply it, so now to think of something to block up that hole with.
I think i will locate it in one of the takeoff tubes from the intake pipe that leads to the tb, one is for the isv and one for the crank breather, was going to put a separate little filter on the breather anyway.... which leads me to, is it really necessary for the breather to 'see' a vaccum, because the lil' filter i have for it is mighty thin.


----------



## detvw (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: (vdublegend)*

Just finished building my MegaSquirt and Stim last night! Was alot easier than I thought it was going to be having not done anything like this before. Took about an hour for the stimulator and six for the MS. I still need to source a couple sensors (the non VW sensors) and a throttle body(got ripped off by the person I bought mine from). I have someone else constructing my harness, I should have that soon. I am projecting to be done within the next month. If anyone has any extra sensors and a throttle body laying around, send me a im.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

I moved my TPSdot threshold to .89 and my accel Time to .4
much smoother, less bucking.
Anyone else find this better?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

Never played whith those settings there ottawa... I probablys should have. 
Instead I just kept lowering my acceleration enrichments down until the car stopped bucking... Megasquirt is using how fast you change throttle position to determine how much to spray for the acceleration enrichment. With the initial settings mine bucked no matter how I changed the throttle position, but now that I lowered them all down until no black smoke comes out the exhaust the car doesnt buck anymore.
Also.... on a personal note







Ran a 15.45 in the 1/4 with a 60' time of 2.26 and an 1/8th mile time of 9.907. For a rebuilt 2.0 engine with 83.5mm pistons, TT exhaust&downpipe, extrude honed 42mm intake(<--wish I knew about the 50mm) I dont think thats all that bad. I was also shifting at 6000 RPM where my stock 2.0 head and cams stop making power. 
I cant wait to setup the ignition through megasquirt, redoing the ignition maps should net me a few more horses! I should be able to have my deshrouded, oversize valve, ported/polished, (solid lifter?), 1.8L 16v head done by this winter or next summer. That paired with a "special" bottem end should work out nice!!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Freerevving (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

yo cracker, what is the total cost of install on the megasquirt? just a rough estimate including all the materials THX http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Freerevving)*

Well MY total cost is different than others, right now I am at $1300 or so... but that includes 2 new sets of injectors, an AEM $350 Wideband O2 unit, an AEM $300 dollar adjustable fuel pressure reg, a megaview unit, and a daughter board which is only needed for low impedence injectors. Basically, I spent way more than I had to. 
This system could easily be done for ~700 dollars using used parts but I was doing a lot of experimenting ... and its my VW which typically demands 1/4 of every paycheck anwyays







so I really didnt mind the costs. PLUS the ability to set up the system your way, program it, and use the parts you find/want to use makes it great. SDS requires SDS specific stuff.... TEC II requires certain specific stuff... megasquirt pretty much lets you do whatever you want http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Freerevving (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

wow 1300 isn't bad either. is it hard to tune, or does the wideband eliminate most of the guess work?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Freerevving)*

After using the wideband, it made me want to buy another one so that I could hook it up to other peoples cars and fine tune them easier... It is ridiculously easy to tune with the wideband. 
The AEM unit that I posted up on the first page I think is only about $356 or something and worth every penny. You get a calibrated Bosh widband O2 with graphical readout of the sensors performance, a wideband controller, an O2 sensor bung for the exhuast, and instuctions http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Its really really nice, and very simple to tune... the wideband records great data using datalogging in megatune which can then be used with mstweak3000 for easy VE table adjustments. The narrow band did ok but it was way off...tuning on the dyno showed that (dyno tuning and re-run within 1-minute or less http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for laptop control!!) Anyways, now that I have the wideband in there I have datalogged and compared to where I had it adjusted on the dyno. Most of the 4000+ points stay the same and the ones below are slightly being adjusted.
Basically wideband + megasquirt = awesome.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_Never played whith those settings there ottawa... I probablys should have. 


Try both of those, I found the car much more driveable.

_Quote »_I cant wait to setup the ignition through megasquirt, redoing the ignition maps should net me a few more horses! I should be able to have my deshrouded, oversize valve, ported/polished, (solid lifter?), 1.8L 16v head done by this winter or next summer. That paired with a "special" bottem end should work out nice!!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I just finished porting a 2L head, I'd say start with a 2L head and port it, Exhaust flow is the real problem with 16v heads, 2L's is better and you can improve on the 2L intake with porting et al.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

I have enough of both laying around, I will check out the 1.8 first prolly or... mess with both http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

Ottawa, 
Agreed, adjusting those two variables does alot for the car. I have have fought a mulititude of" tip in" issues and finally got my best performance at 1.4 and .4sec.....


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Andrew Stauffer)*

I'll try moving my TPSdot up to 1.4 and see if that improves anything.
.4 seems to be a good spot of VWs if anyone is thinking about MS, make a mental note


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

Im sure I could look it up... but what exactly are those valuse controlling? Accel time is how long for accelerator enrichment?
Tps dot is ...?


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_Im sure I could look it up... but what exactly are those valuse controlling? Accel time is how long for accelerator enrichment?
Tps dot is ...?

tps dot is how fast your gas pedal (tps) moves before it adds accel enrich.
If it's too low, like .59, the slightest twitch will put it into accel
Accel time is how long to squirt the accel enrich in for. .2 was too short for me, I tried 2 ms, it totally bogged the car, kept going down until it started missing.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*


_Quote »_
Tach Wire: 
The (-) lead on the coil is a horrible place to connect the tach wire on the stock CIS-E ignition. A much easier and cleaner approach is to grab the green wire coming from the 3 pin distributor harness. Simply attach the tach wire to it. HOWEVER! that wire has about 120 Volts on it, so you have to make the following modification. In-line with the tach wire simply place a 1/2 watt 3k resistor. Your done.

Why is the neg side of the tach a bad spot?


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

Well, the negative spot on the coil on every VW I have messed with has generated a NASTY tach signal.... The ones I distastefully hooked up an aftermarket tach to the tach would bounce around after 3-4k RPMS. On my car when I installed megasquirt the tach signal was just all over the place.... and the wire coming from the distributor is beautifully clean signal. 

Also those setting you describe work great http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Runs much better on initial acceleration. I used the 1.4 for TPSDot and .3 for the accel enrichment time. I think the accel enrichment was kicking in just a hair too soon and thats why the car was having issues. Also, I think that on my NA setup the .2 might be a little better but I am messing with it.


_Modified by CrackerX at 4:24 AM 7-15-2004_


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

Mmmmm, I'll have to look at that, mine from the negative coil seems pretty clean.
Do you have a pic of where you spliced in? (is it the Hall sender wires?)


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

<>


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 11:55 AM 2-19-2006_


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

Yep, I just spliced into it right after the hall sender plug and put that resister on, works great.


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## kpgli84 (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (plohip)*

TTT


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (kpgli84)*

i'm working on my install right now. when i'm done i will have a really good schematic for all of you motronic users, including wire colors and locations.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_i'm working on my install right now. when i'm done i will have a really good schematic for all of you motronic users, including wire colors and locations.

Awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I was hoping this post would become a really good and informative post for people who are interested in doing this swap on their 16v's


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

Here are some pictures....
Edit: Pictures on first page 


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 5:08 AM 1-10-2006_


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

nevermind... posted it on previous post.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

i'm running a 2l 16v and can't figure out the correct cranking pulsewidths and req_fuel to keep the car running. i've got 33 lb injectors and factory 3 bar FPR from a G60. please HELP!


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

Updated the enrichments picture posted on the front page. I will have another low-mid range tuned VE map for a stock 2.0L posted up there soon.
Midnight, just keep playing with the required fuel. The VE table I have avaliable on the first page should be a great starting point http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

it's running!







i'm too embarassed to say why it wasn't working before, i'll leave it to you're imagination.







it's still really rough, it's running WAY rich, so rich my eyes started to burn after a few minutes even with the garage door open and fans blowing. the accel and decel also need some work, the car idles fairly decent, but anytime i give it gas it stumbles and tries to die, which now that i think about it makes sense, if the base fuel is running rich, any other enrichment just bogs the thing down and would also explain the small backfires through the intake... hmm... but whenever i lower the req_fuel the a/f doesn't change and the car just idles rougher... it'll take a lot more tuning, but i'm so stoked it's actually running, i was loosing faith today.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

Lol... its fun to figure it out for the first time








Just some advice ... IF You ever happen to be driving along and tuning your car dont accidently put in 50 instead of 5.0 for any fields that deal with fuel. Lol... boy was that one funny. I never seen so much black smoke and it actually flooded the car out and shut it off at 65 mph. 
Also, if you are driving along mindin' your own business and your car suddenly starts puffing MAJOR black smoke and you can only go 5mph with first gear floored.... DONT open up your laptop notice the coolant temp sensor is -40* F and change the -40*F Enrichment setting from 180 to 100 and press "send to ECU" WITH your foot still on the floor going 5mph in first gear!!!







YOU will immediately do a rediculous and embarassing burnout!! But that could be very bad!! Anways you should probably just plug back in the 37 pin data cable thats pulling out of the ECU


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_Updated the enrichments picture posted on the front page. I will have another low-mid range tuned VE map for a stock 2.0L posted up there soon.
Midnight, just keep playing with the required fuel. The VE table I have avaliable on the first page should be a great starting point http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

I'm running 70% decel value, I found below that it bucked, but above that seemed to dump extra fuel on Decel, which isn't needed.
I've also been playing with the start values.
I have priming pulse set to 0, not really needed.
then -40 @ 12
and 170 @ 3.2
Will be refining these values soon and will post changes.
CrackerX: You're running WB, have you tired different values for starts? What is your A/F? What about at idle?
When I start the car hot (no fast ilde) it hunts until it gets to operating temp.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttawaG60* »_
CrackerX: You're running WB, have you tired different values for starts? What is your A/F? What about at idle?
When I start the car hot (no fast ilde) it hunts until it gets to operating temp.

As far as the decel value goes I put mine at 95% because it was a little "gentler" on the decel. I can lower it down and see what happens, I plan on continuing to make changes to that first page until I am really happy with how the car is performing http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
A/F is about 13.0:1 For my sensor that was a calibrated 3.450 volts or so. At Idle I have tried to acheive the same A/F ratio. I have set the O2 WB settings to interfere with the moter from 700 RPMS and higher. This has allowed datalogging to collect data and interfere with my VE map somewhat around idle. I plan on setting that to 500 RPMS since 500 RPMS is my lowest RPM value in the VE table. The WB seems to read very well even at low RPM's http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Havent mest with the priming pulses or anything with starts, but so far its always fired right up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Edit: I should also note that 13:1 was where my car seemed to make the most HP.


_Modified by CrackerX at 8:18 AM 7-26-2004_


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

the problem i was having was the enrichments were kicking in before i had the VE table fine tuned, now it drives much better. it is still lacking ALOT of power though and it's running hotter than usual. my first few runs with the "tuned" VE map showed i was running consistantly rich (.6.5v-.7v) so i scaled the table down a bit so that i was running consistantly stoich or slightly rich (.5.5v-.6v). didn't feel much of a difference. 
for a high compression NA motor, what a/f am i looking for, and how does that equate to volts? and should that a/f stay consistant all the way across the powerband or should it richen at higher rpms and approx how much?
i've also got a small exhaust leak, when i removed my EGR i plugged the port with an "oversize" (all they had available at Pepboys) oil drain plug and it went in about 2-3 threads and stopped, but i can definatly hear the leak, will that cause massive loss of power and throw off all the settings? it's very small, kinda sounds like a belt squeek at light throttle (but definatly an exhaust leak)


_Modified by MidnightGLI at 7:36 PM 7-26-2004_


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

I think you're supposed to tune the VE table with the accel enrich turned off.
If you have closed loop on, it really doesn't matter if your VE table is a little rich as closed loop will keep you stoich.
Have you datalogged and used MSTweak3000?


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote »_for a high compression NA motor, what a/f am i looking for, and how does that equate to volts? and should that a/f stay consistant all the way across the powerband or should it richen at higher rpms and approx how much?

I think for an NA car, 13:1 is fine
remember that the narrowband O2 is best effort outside stoich, you're much better to get MSTweak to find out what your stoich value is, then calculate what 13:1 (or whatever value you want) is.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

13:1 is slightly lean correct? so that means i want <.5v on the narrowband? i do have the accel enrichments off but the car still runs rich and when i datalog and calculate in MSTweak it doesn't seem to change many of the VE values and is always still rich. also how do i know if i'm in closed loop mode and how to do i get it there?


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_13:1 is slightly lean correct? so that means i want <.5v on the narrowband? 


13:1 is rich, you want to be a little rich @ WOT
I read .75/.8 on the Narrowband in my datalogs (I think).

_Quote »_
i do have the accel enrichments off but the car still runs rich and when i datalog and calculate in MSTweak it doesn't seem to change many of the VE values and is always still rich. also how do i know if i'm in closed loop mode and how to do i get it there?

What size are you injectors?
Can you post your megaTune settings and VE table?


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*








Gonna let my girlfriend drive my car around tonight







YIKES! Only so I can play with the enrichment settings some more... I think the 95% decel may be putting too much fuel in.... While she drives ill check out the wideband on megatune http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

as funny as it sounds, i have no floppy disks anymore to transfer my settings so i can post them. i have 19lb injectors and it isn't running REALLY rich, so think i'm probably pretty close to 13:1 because MSTweak isn't doing much to your already bang on VE map. so i think i need to mess with enrichments and get my exhaust leak fixed (Eurosport race header and exhaust sitting in garage







)


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

Finally, TOMORROW, my car will be completely finished. After I cracked the stupid edis trigger wheel I bought a new distributor hoping to get it done today, but I had no luck. I am getting a new trigger wheel tomorrow, fishing the edis wiring, re-modding my MS, and ripping out all of the stupid VW ignition control crap that has given me nothing but trouble since day one. I also need to finish up the wiring on my brother's swapped CRX. Two 80's hatches!


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (plohip)*

sweet, i want to hear how it runs...
i'm having problems with my cold start running, keep in mind "cold start" means 100deg ambient temps here in AZ. the car runs and idles like utter crap, wants to stall, stutters with light throttle until it is warmed up 3-5minutes then it idles and drives "OK". what kind of enrichments should i be looking at and what kind of values would make sense?


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

I was having similar issues but only for the first minute of driving.
I changed the cold start accel enrichment to 102% instead of 105. I also lowered down the enrichments for those temp ranges.... 80* became 104% 100* was 102% and 130* became 101%


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_as funny as it sounds, i have no floppy disks anymore to transfer my settings so i can post them. i have 19lb injectors and it isn't running REALLY rich, so think i'm probably pretty close to 13:1 because MSTweak isn't doing much to your already bang on VE map. so i think i need to mess with enrichments and get my exhaust leak fixed (Eurosport race header and exhaust sitting in garage







)

Type them out in here, perhaps we'll be able to help you out.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_sweet, i want to hear how it runs...
i'm having problems with my cold start running, keep in mind "cold start" means 100deg ambient temps here in AZ. the car runs and idles like utter crap, wants to stall, stutters with light throttle until it is warmed up 3-5minutes then it idles and drives "OK". what kind of enrichments should i be looking at and what kind of values would make sense?

My car starts well, what are you using for start values?
Only problem I have is that when the car is warm (off for less than 5 minutes) it hunts a little until it warms back up.
Will iron that out soon


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

Hey ottowa, what are your cold start enrichment values? star values?? Started it again today and when its still cold (first minute) it still wants to stall if I keep the rpms really low when accelerating.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

i will post up my values tonight after some tweaking. i got my header and exhaust on (IT'S SO FREAKING LOUD) so that will remove the possibility of the exhaust leak doing anything weird. i tried to drive it last night and about a block from my house it stalled and noticed a strong smell of gas, one of my injectors wasn't fully seated in the fuel rail so it was pissing all over the road... fix that when i get home tonight and play with some the enrichments like Cracker recommended and see what happens. i'll keep you guys posted, thanks for the help.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_Hey ottowa, what are your cold start enrichment values? star values?? Started it again today and when its still cold (first minute) it still wants to stall if I keep the rpms really low when accelerating.

I turned my accel enrich down, found it was dumping in too much fuel.
I'm running 0, 12 @ -40, 2.3 @ 170
Do you have cold start valve?


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

I put my decel down to 70, didnt make much difference on this stock setup... put it back to 75 cause the O2 sensor read a hair lean after decel.
Startup I put your settings in and they seem better...
Still playing with ve table as far as low to mid rpms...


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

Cool, keep me posted


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

the car is running better, still pretty rough on cold starts. i dropped the afterstart enrich down to around 17 and that smoothed out the idle a bit but it still idles really low and wants to stall when the rpms drop from a shift. my acceleration is also very rough and "sticky" is a good word, not linear at all. it must have to do with my TPSdot, accel time and accel enrich. i've been doing quite a bit of datalogging for the VE and only a few values change slightly every time. one question, should i get the acceleration and enrichments straightened out before i start tuning the VE with datalogging, because won't that intefere with the actual o2 readings that help tune it?


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

Yea, I would try to get the accel enrichments down first... I just lowered mine down again. 
I will have a hopefully really really nicely tuned VE map you can dowload and try here soon, maybe by tomorrow http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I have been doing a lot of datalogging with the wideband, and a lot of the points on the map have changed from 4000 and below. 
The non linear power is from the car moving through the different VE points. The fact that ther power is non linear means that they are off somewhat.... My car is getting smoother and smoother as I do the datalogging and mstweak. Hopefully after some more driving around to and from work today and tomorrow the datalogging wont change the map much and I can post it up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

Man Wideband is SO the way to go... the VE map is getting just about perfect according to the continually smaller changes made by mstweak... And the car is getting beautifully smooth








I forgot I adjusted the wideband crossover point up a little bit from 13.0:1 to an A/F of 13.3:1. I could smell gas in the exhaust fairly often at 13.0:1 Also, 13.3 was where my car had the most power on the dyno. So basically the map will be tuned for my car for a 13.3:1 a/f ratio. Thats on a 6* stock CIS-E ignition with stock 2.0 head&cams, 2.0 bottom end with 83.5mm pistons, TT downpipe TT catback, and extrude honed 42mm intake. Stock 16v flywheel weight as well.


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## detvw (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

A friend of mine just had her Megasquirt dyno tuned. NA 2.0l 16v 177whp 163tq 150 ft lbs @2500


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (detvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *detvw* »_A friend of mine just had her Megasquirt dyno tuned. NA 2.0l 16v 177whp 163tq 150 ft lbs @2500


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## scandalous (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (detvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *detvw* »_A friend of mine just had her Megasquirt dyno tuned. NA 2.0l 16v 177whp 163tq 150 ft lbs @2500









What mods....? 
Magical vodoo powAr cams.?
240mm Uranus spec intake?
Vulcan mind metal internals..?
ok... Being serious now.. Those are some really impressive #s. Would love to know what mods got it there...


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## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (scandalous)*

Just finished installing my setup, after fixing a water leak, and two fuel leaks, got it to start can not get it to idle without keeping foot a touch on the gas.....
Warmed up a bit, then couldnt get it to start at all, killed the battery, on charge now...
Pics will follow later.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (vdublegend)*

Cool http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Try changing the rest position of the throttle linkage. I use that to control my idle speed and it works pretty well. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Glad to hear another install up and running








Also, I have expereinced a few VW alternators that do not kick on till you hit about 4k RPMS. Dont know why, but i have seen it on more than one occasion.


_Modified by CrackerX at 8:49 AM 7-30-2004_


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (vdublegend)*

Fine tuned VE map should be up sometime tomorrow... I noticed an increase on highway oil temps from 208* to 220* so i backed the a/f ratio down from 13.3:1 to about 13.2:1 and they dropped down to 214* 


_Modified by CrackerX at 8:47 AM 7-30-2004_


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## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

changed the throttle stop position, and got it to idle!!! now to tune those warm up enrichments....


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## Jilly16V (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (scandalous)*

I think my breasts help me get the high hp numbers, not vodoo!!!








Mod list should be here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1406961


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Jilly16V)*

ive done about 7 datalogs today and the car is running really lean all of a sudden, it's popping, gurgling and backfiring between shifts and on deceleration. my MAP at idle is also no lower than 45kpa, usually around 50kpa but the idle is smooth and consistant. does that mean i have a bad vacuum signal?
oh yeah, and now i can't get the car into reverse, could i have possibly melted a bushing or blown reverse in the tranny?
i have my TPSdot set really high, like 30v/s like suggested in the megamanual so the car never goes into accell enrich mode, that way i'm datalogging only the VE map without any other variables. i have the ego step set to 3%, limit 75% and events to 16. every datalog session (roughly 3-4 minutes of light driving up and down the road) only changes 1 or 2 values a very small amount in MSTweak. am i doing something wrong?


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

If your idle is 45 KPA then you may have a vacuum leak or your throttle rest position is causing the throttle to be open too much at idle. I typically idle around 30 KPA and on DECEL I go anywhere from 12-23KPA. Those values will typically be different for different motors, but mine is primarily stock and that can server as a reference for you. (bigger cams, higher map reading at idle...I think)
Reverse: You could have melted a bushing... but could just be a bad bushing. Try to manually put it in reverse from inside the engine bay. probably completely unrelated.
You need to set up your ignition events per second for the different RPM ranges you are tuning. If you want to tune the 1000-4000 range you need to have your stuff in the enrichments set up for that RPM range. Basically, set the Ignition Events per second to about 28-32 and your step% to about 1-2% (2 for more of a rough map). Also, the limit being set to 75% is probably fine, but for tuning puposes you might as well put it at 100%. 
For higher RPM ranges 4000-7000 Set your ignition events per step to 64 and your step % to about 3. 
Once the map is set correctly or very very close, you probably want to put the limit down to 5-10% and your step to 1%. 
Now, thats just megatune enrichment settings.. You should also setup mstweak correctly. In settings in mstweak make sure everything is set correctly.
VE Range settings: the min RPM equal to megatunes EGO Active Above RPM value... ( Mine is 800 now) and the Max RPM set to 10000 is fine, max Map to 100 is fine for NA. 
VE Range Calculation: Should be set to Average, with Outlier Elimination checked. Sigma should be 1.8 or so, and your EGO Crossover Voltage should be .5 for a narrow band, or the target voltage you want from your wideband. (For My calibrated wideband sensor its 3.5340 for about 13.2:1.) 
Data Filtering and Fitting: Use 2 step with the second filter% about 1/2 the first one. Also, you should set the first filter from 60-85% Moving higher as your VE table gets closer to what it should be.

There is a really good PDF file that comes with MSTweak that everyone should read before trying to tune with it. The stuff up above comes from that pdf file, and the PDF file helps explain how it works http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

thanks for the added info on the O2 settings and tweak. i replaced my shifter bushings today, they were thrashed. the car shifts fine now, and i've manually played with the VE map a little and it runs better than before. i'll try those settings you described tomorrow when i do some more datalogging. as far as the vacuum reference, i have it "t" off the end of the intake manifold, the other hose goes to the FPR. i can't seem to find any vacuum leaks though.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

Well, My cold start settings seem to be royally screwed. I honestly think it is directly related to their being no idle air bypass. In comparison with stock CIS-E the same symptoms of stalling/hesitation at low RPMS occurred in minor form after deleting my ISV. 
Anyways, I am struggling to get the accel, %enrichment, and cold start accel settings setup. The VE Table is really getting good, and although 4100 RPMS and up are still in need of a little fine tuning at less than wide open throttle, the rest of the table is about perfect. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I know I keep saying tomorrow, but the more and more tweaking I do the better it gets! I will post it as soon as I am really happy with it







Also, the coolant temps are running at 203* on the interstate now with no smell of too much gas in the exhaust.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

New VE table is posted, as well as enrichment settings...
I think I finally got the warmup stuff down, turns out there is a warmup wizard! Yea crazy little option in megatune I never saw until this morning







Well, it really helped get the settings where I need them to be. The acceleration is still a little off, but I can probably get that working soon.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_New VE table is posted, as well as enrichment settings...
I think I finally got the warmup stuff down, turns out there is a warmup wizard! Yea crazy little option in megatune I never saw until this morning







Well, it really helped get the settings where I need them to be. The acceleration is still a little off, but I can probably get that working soon.

Cool!
I'll have to check out my newly tweaked VE Table to see if it's way off yours.
What's your mileage like?
You find the 1 on your 170 start is enough? I'm at 2
I still haven't ironed out the cold cold starts, waiting for the fall.
I'm also using a higher accel time, I found .2 to be too short.
I'll have to check some of my other settings too.
2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

Last time I did a mileage check it was a little over 34 mpg on the interstate, and that should be the same for this map. The "cruising" range for me is very well tuned on this ve table.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

wow, I'm getting only about 22-25 mpg


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## scandalous (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

I'm getting about 30mpg on the highway with my 8v.
It's nice and lean at low load cruising, but when I hit decel it instantly goes mega rich.??? My decel value is at 65%. That's the lowest I can go without getting the bucking.
Also, I had to set my priming pulse to 12 and my warmup enrichments rediculously high (about 165% at 60 degree F) to get the car to start, idle and run "good" when cold.




_Modified by scandalous at 6:37 PM 8-3-2004_


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (scandalous)*

I am beginning to think that higher numbers are probably better for warmup enrichment. It might make the car run a little rich but at least the thing idles!!!
As far as your decel goes, the decel seems to work just like the accel. It only cuts the fuel when you let off the gas... anotherwords it senses the throttle closing via the TPS. After that initial throttle movement, the decel value doesnt effect anything. I would check what map value you have when decelerating and adjust the points along that map value down. Or, just do a lot of datalogging and let the car decelerate a bunch. When the engine is slowing me down my map values are about 12kpa at 6800-5500 and it goes up to about 23kpa below 5000 rpm. 
Probably a good idea to make sure that the map values you get when the engine is slowing you down arnt the same at idle or cruising speed... and they shouldnt be.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

Hey Cracker, your newest VE map is bad ass! i'm still having major issues on power through 1st and 2nd gear, car is seriously bogged down. 1st gear feels like the pull in 2nd gear and the pull in second gear feels like the pull in 3rd gear, u know what i mean? very sluggish. i have yet to attempt to tune my enrichments, but those are so short it shouldn't make that much of a difference should it? i'm wondering if one of my injectors isn't working correctly, or my throttle body isn't opening all the way. i'll need to play around with it tomorrow when the engine cools off. on a good note, it cruised for a solid 1 1/2 hours of highway driving tonight. the lower gears and high rpms feels good.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

What is your accel time set to? Try .4
What about your TPSdot? Try .98 or even 1.17
To tune your accel enrich, put the car in neutral, slowly rev the engine, adjusting the top bin (2v/s) if it stumbles (rpm dips before raising) you're too rich.
Press pedal a little faster, watch to see if it goes lean.
Work your way to snapping the throttle open very quickly, work it so that it doesn't go lean for a split second.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

Glad its working for you, or sort of working for you








You could try dropping/raising your required fuel by .1 until it runs perfect. Since we both have different injcetors and required fuel values, thats the values you should probably play with since the required fuel is multipled by the VE to determine what is actually sprayed. More info below.
(*******COPIED FROM http://www.megasquirt.info/manual/mfuel.htm )
REQ_FUEL (short for "required fuel") is the part of the computation that tells MegaSquirt how big your injectors are, and what your cylinder displacement (CYL_DISP) is. It is the length of time in milliseconds [ms] that MegaSquirt should “squirt” to give the stoichiometric amount of fuel (14.7 Air/Fuel Ratio for gasoline) at 100% VE, a manifold absolute pressure (MAP) of 100kPa, and an air temperature of 70 degrees Fahrenheit for a complete stroke cycle.
So basically the %'s stored in the VE table tell the car to spray what % of required fuel. I would try to tune your required fuel to the ve map as best you can, and then pay the money for the wideband and do some datalogging to fine tune it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif The AEM wideband unit I picked up was a really nice setup! Calibrated sensor graphs, charts, and tons of good info came with it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Even had an O2 sensor bung and threaded plug.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

we're both using 19lb digi injectors, but i think you have your fpr raised to 50psi, i have the stock 3bar digi fpr. so that means i could also scale the ve map down very slightly and not mess with the req_fuel, right?


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

No, scale REQ_FUEL.
VE table is how well engine flows, req_fuel is injector size.
What are you running now? I'd say somewhere between 17 to 19 should be fine.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

i thought that req_fuel shouldn't change unless you change your injectors? i was figuring to scale Crackers ve map because his map was tuned for more flow, therefore his map is slightly off to what mine should be. i'm running 19lb digi at 2 squirts simultanous, so my req_fuel is like 8.4 or something


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

You can adjust either, but I would slightly increment/decrement your required fuel until its as good as it gets.
You can get a friend or someone to do it while you are accelerating down the road, you should "feel" the difference even if you just slightly change it by .1. Especially if you are in mid acceleration (3000-4000) Rpms


_Modified by CrackerX at 9:51 AM 8-5-2004_


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

sweet, now i have a good use for my wife...







i'll try that tonight


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

i'm concerned that my knock sensors and the motronic ecu is wreaking havoc on my tuning efforts. i'm thinking any time it runs lean and knocks, the motronic ecu retards the timing (like it should) but that i'm thinking that is screwing up my datalogs. i'm also thinkiing that my code isn't the latest, the guy it bought it off of is thinking there might be some weird beta/experimental code on it that he was playing with and forgot about, so i've got to pull the box (which is mounted to my center console, not the easiest thing to remove) and update the code. megatune is doing some very odd stuff and not affecting the megasquirt module like it should.


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

Finnaly finished the EDIS install. It works! I just need some universal plug wires that will fit deep enough into the head. I can't wait to try the new VE table.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (plohip)*

i reflashed the firmware to V3 this morning, MegaTune is working much better now. before it was throwing in some weird values for the VE map and the "Tuning" option wasn't affecting the car the way it should have. now it more drivable and tunable. i still need to convert over to MSnS to rid myself of the knock sensors and motronic ecu. then i'll pay for some dyno time to really dial it in.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (plohip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *plohip* »_Finnaly finished the EDIS install. It works! I just need some universal plug wires that will fit deep enough into the head. I can't wait to try the new VE table.

I hope that works out better than stock ignition







Im gonna start futzing with controling the stock ignition module this week as soon as I get my Honda :rollseyes: on the road. 

_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_i reflashed the firmware to V3 this morning, MegaTune is working much better now. before it was throwing in some weird values for the VE map and the "Tuning" option wasn't affecting the car the way it should have. now it more drivable and tunable. i still need to convert over to MSnS to rid myself of the knock sensors and motronic ecu. then i'll pay for some dyno time to really dial it in.

cool http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Something to note with these VE maps that I post up... If you get your Air Fuel Ratio from a wideband then you can adjust the VE map to what ratio you want to run using mstweak. If you find out that on my map you are running at 14:1 or 13.5:1 or 12:1 or whatever then you can simply open up mstweak, load the VE map, go to EDIT-modify map then EDIT-create wbo2 target AFR map. You can now put your starting AFR in at the top, and then copy and paste the desired AFR on the right all the way down. So once you find out where you are starting from if you want a 12.8:1 or 12.9:1 AFR for max power you can plug it in there and adjust the VE Map accordingly. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif OR if you want to go max gas mileage plug in like 13.7:1. You would probably have to adjust idle a little richer, but for cruising MAP values 13.7:1 should be fine. I dont know how well the car will run any leaner than that! watch your temps if you try








I am working on another VE map with RPM Plots better suited to the torque/power curve of the engine. I am sure it will be close to anyones stock 2.0L motor. I am still setting the AFR of this map to 13.2. That will of course NOT be the same AFR anyone else will have on their car unless they are running the exact same setup I have. Anyways, I am gonna try to post that map up soon, before I start on the ignition.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

For cruising/no load, you can get away with quite lean, like 16:1, there is no real need to have it as rich as 13:1.
It's only WOT that you have to worry about, and since it's at a much higher Kpa, you can tune that part rich, lower values leaner.


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

I got my plugwires. Accell universal 3008. $20 for 8 wires boots and terminals. I put them on and get a much brighter spark than the junkyard EDIS wires. I didn't get a chance to start it because I blew all but one of the relays on the relay board (don't ask).


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (plohip)*

alright guys, i need some help. i've got my VE tuned pretty much right on with a friends help last night and a lot of rural driving. my problem is that in 1st and 2nd gear i don't have NEARLY the power i should, i'm running at say 75%, the car is SO slow from a stop all the way to redline in the first two gears. 3rd-5th pull nice and hard from 2000-7000rpm. what is my problem??? it's obviously not the VE map because all those points are shared through all the gears, so if my map is off all the gears should suck. and the acceleration is smooth and consistant, doesn't jerk or bog or stumble or backfire, the NB o2 is showing slightly rich at WOT but it just will not pull the rpms, feels like i'm towing a 3000lb trailer.
i've come up with a few possible reasons:
1. vacuum leak 
idles around 50kPa on stock cams, way too high. but why would that affect only 1st and 2nd gear accel?
2. accel enrichments 
possible that the enrichments play an important role in initial accel because the gears are so short and there is so much load? but at the same time you'd think the car would bog or stumble in all gears.
3. ignition timing 
i'm still running the motronic ecu with knock sensors to control ignition, the ecu could be pulling back timing due to bogus readings (sensors no longer there) or knocks. but then again, why would that only affect the first two gears worth of acceleration?
what do you think?


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_alright guys, i need some help. i've got my VE tuned pretty much right on with a friends help last night and a lot of rural driving. my problem is that in 1st and 2nd gear i don't have NEARLY the power i should, i'm running at say 75%, the car is SO slow from a stop all the way to redline in the first two gears. 3rd-5th pull nice and hard from 2000-7000rpm. what is my problem??? it's obviously not the VE map because all those points are shared through all the gears, so if my map is off all the gears should suck. and the acceleration is smooth and consistant, doesn't jerk or bog or stumble or backfire, the NB o2 is showing slightly rich at WOT but it just will not pull the rpms, feels like i'm towing a 3000lb trailer.
i've come up with a few possible reasons:
1. vacuum leak 
idles around 50kPa on stock cams, way too high. but why would that affect only 1st and 2nd gear accel?
2. accel enrichments 
possible that the enrichments play an important role in initial accel because the gears are so short and there is so much load? but at the same time you'd think the car would bog or stumble in all gears.
3. ignition timing 
i'm still running the motronic ecu with knock sensors to control ignition, the ecu could be pulling back timing due to bogus readings (sensors no longer there) or knocks. but then again, why would that only affect the first two gears worth of acceleration?
what do you think?









50kpa seems high, I'm running 33-34, what's your PW at idle?
How did you tune your enrichements and what are they currently set at?
Try unplugging the knock sensors, see if that makes a diff.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttawaG60* »_50kpa seems high, I'm running 33-34, what's your PW at idle?
How did you tune your enrichements and what are they currently set at?
Try unplugging the knock sensors, see if that makes a diff.

Definitly try that, I am curious to also know if motronic may go into limp mode without certain inputs. Also, Is limp mode based on ignition timing? 
I know for CIS-E the ignition system is completely seperate and not effected. 
The accel enrichments are typically felt very quickly and would not effect the fuel the entire time it takes to wind out a gear. I hope you can get to the bottom of this soon http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif You will love it once it starts running awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


_Modified by CrackerX at 7:15 AM 8-11-2004_


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

my idle PW is 3.0-3.3, my enrichments are set exactly to what Cracker posted on his first post, they seem to react quickly and feel good. i tried unplugging the knock sensors and the car idled like crap, wanted to stall out, backfiring through the intake. i'm going to try it again and try and do some datalogging to see if maybe that helps. first off i'm going to replace all my intake manifold gaskets, use some sealer and track down all my vacuum lines to see if i can find that leak. i'll keep you guys updated.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

I'm idling around the same spot.
Do you lean out for a brief second on accel?


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

i haven't noticed the leaning out, but what i have noticed on my datalogs is my o2 reading is VERY "spiky" it'll bounce from lean to rich all over the place. i'm thinking it has to do with my race header and the fact that the o2 is located all the way down at the collector, i've read that headers will mess with o2 readings because they are so thin that heat dissipates before it gets there. 
why do u ask about lean on accel?


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

You're readings will go all over the place if you're in closed loop.
I was wondering it your accel enrich were too lean.
What is your REQ_Fuel + highest accel enrich? Is it below 25.5?


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

my req_fuel is 8.4 and my highest accel enrich is 3.4, so i'm well within the range. i'm wondering since i have a california car, if the motronic ecu is somewhat different and causing ignition problems. i'm going to play around with the ve map some more on the low rpms and see if i'm maybe running too rich. my gas mileage has gone to crap, 20mpg highway when i used to get at least 25-27 highway.


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## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

Are these cars your daily drivers? How long did it take you to get everything up and running? I already have a built board from a friend who has a 240 but he decided it was tooo complicated for him. I dont have the luxury of having my car off the road for too long. And i laso have a wideband which might help me set it up a little faster. What do you guys think? Take a week of work? or can I do it in a weekend?


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (bahnblitz)*

Now that I have done it once I could probably do it in a weekend but the first time it took me about 2 weeks or more before it was up and running well... You have to read A LOT and then read some more. 
However.....








You can build it, prepare a wiring harness, get the parts, and everything else you need to do without having the car off the road. Leave the car driveable and measure out wires for the wiring harness, drill any necessary holes you may need for mounting, route and measure fuel line, find all the power wires, run your grounds.....etc. Then in a weekend simply remove the old, put in the new, and wire everything in to the pre-located places. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
_______________
Midnight, have you tried lowering your required fuel by .1 or so???


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (bahnblitz)*

Daily driver:yes, plan to drive it through a CDN winter.
As for install, get it all ready beforehand, you can install it in a day.
Depends on what's needed.
For VW 16v's, it's fuel rail/injectors and TPS that are the most problematic.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

took me about a week of 2-3 hours a day to get it installed, and it was running the 2nd day after installation (would have been the 1st day if i were retarded). so it's possible to get it done in a weekend if you are EXTREMELY prepared, organized and drink a lot of redbulls (minus Vodka







) 
Cracker, i did try playing slightly with the req_fuel and felt a slight improvement (might have just been mental) but my major concern has been 1st and 2nd gear power which nothing i've done has really affected. i think part of the problem is related to the motronic ecu, i've been reading the bentley and it states that the ignition timing is determined through the ecu by the air flow pot (part of the fuel dizzy, GONE), coolant temp (not connected to the ecu anymore), and engine load (throttle switches, GONE) to the ecu so that makes me think the ecu is just running in limp mode or without any ignition advance, which would make sense why the car pulls hard from 4000-5000 rpms and sucks balls everywhere else, i imagine the base timing is just right for that range but the advance required for the other rpm ranges isn't kicking in because the ecu doesn't know what the conditions of the car are anymore. i found a coil and ign control module from a dude locally that will sell them both to me for $30, i think i'm going to snag that and get MSnS running.


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## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

I already have a fuel rail made from a ross machine billet extrusion and my tps will be off my throttle body set up. Im more worried about the stage of getting the car up and running with the MS (messing around with values and tuning) so I can get back and forth to work. Ive already read the manual a few times as I stumbled onto the site about a year ago and watched some other memebers mainly trike and cnddub get their cars up and running. 
EDIT: The cams that I have are really worrying me. I see you guys are still ironing out details on relatively stock engines. Im thinking my monster cams are gonna give me more than a few headaches










_Modified by bahnblitz at 9:22 PM 8-12-2004_


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (bahnblitz)*

You can get most of the values from us, we've ironed most of it out.
What are the cams? 300s?


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (bahnblitz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bahnblitz* »_ 
EDIT: The cams that I have are really worrying me. I see you guys are still ironing out details on relatively stock engines. Im thinking my monster cams are gonna give me more than a few headaches








_Modified by bahnblitz at 9:22 PM 8-12-2004_

Ive been waiting to install my cams, 1.8 head, and ITBS because I wanted to get the stock version super fine tuned. I dont think the cams would do much harm to be honest... All you have to do is get the VE map to match the new torque/power curve of the cams http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Once I get MSnS setup with the stock setup I am going to start work on a modified engine VE map / Ignition table. A few enrichment settings will probably change as well.

_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_
. i think part of the problem is related to the motronic ecu, i've been reading the bentley and it states that the ignition timing is determined through the ecu by the air flow pot (part of the fuel dizzy, GONE), coolant temp (not connected to the ecu anymore), and engine load (throttle switches, GONE) to the ecu so that makes me think the ecu is just running in limp mode or without any ignition advance, which would make sense why the car pulls hard from 4000-5000 rpms and sucks balls everywhere else, i imagine the base timing is just right for that range but the advance required for the other rpm ranges isn't kicking in because the ecu doesn't know what the conditions of the car are anymore. 

Yea that sounds important to me! I havent had to study motronic ignition that much but if it depends on the air flow pot you are definitly screwed for using stock motronic ignition!







I should post that on the first page... 
Plohip has got the EDIS ignition setup, that might be easier to use than the stock CIS-E Ignition module but I dont know. Plohip said he was probably going to post up all the info for the EDIS swap when he gets everything worked out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
The $30 expenditure for MSnS sounds like your next best move. Let us know how it works out! I am planning on trying to wire up MSnS here soon as well after I swap bottom ends out...


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## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

260/280 hybrid cams with 12mms of lift. Doesnt sound like a lot but meant for ITBs/carbs only. This is a new grind by a secret company. Not telling until I get the dyno results


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

Yep, I will post pictures and stuff of the EDIS setup. It works so far! If only I wouldn't have fried my relay board by being stupid I would be driving the car now. It should get here Tuesday and I will build and install it the same day. Then I will post a video and pictures of it running with edis. With my new custom plug wires I get a REALLY nice spark, and that is with crappy plugs.


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## scandalous (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: (plohip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *plohip* »_Yep, I will post pictures and stuff of the EDIS setup. It works so far! If only I wouldn't have fried my relay board by being stupid I would be driving the car now. It should get here Tuesday and I will build and install it the same day. Then I will post a video and pictures of it running with edis. With my new custom plug wires I get a REALLY nice spark, and that is with crappy plugs.

Cool, glad you got it up and going... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
For anyone that wants EDIS info, hit me up via IM. Been running it for a couple of months now..


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## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (scandalous)*

Yep, scandalous definitely has the knowledge! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: (plohip)*

any of you guys runnign maegsquirt 2?


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (bahnblitz)*

Megasquirt 2 isn't out yet...


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## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

really when is it coming out? I need more bins!! and BTW What plug wires do you use for 16v edis install? maybe magnecore can make me some? If not i know where to get factory ends


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (bahnblitz)*

apparently MSII is coming out very shortly, but they are still working out some of the odds and ends. could be two weeks, could be 6 months...


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

Ill have to call my buddy who works with Mr. Grippo and see whats up... Man, that guy is so beyond genius its not even funny. Megasquirt is like a childs toy compared to some of the stuff that guy does everyday....


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

...wish i were smart...


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## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

You gotta love the disclaimer on all of the MS pages. Everytime I read it I laugh
BTW could MS function for timing only and not fuel?


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (bahnblitz)*

OMG Ultramegasquirt is so awesome... Its been awhile since I read about it. I program in C among several other languages. With Ultramegasquirt I could program it quickly in C or write nice Java GUI's that use C code to interact with megasquirt and OMG the possibilities are endless... I am so excited! I would have messed with the current assembly code but I hate assembly code. Its not hard, but annoying and I havent had a reason to mess with it yet







If i could program in C though...I would probably stay up countless nights programming up all kinda different stuff for it. With programmable inputs/outputs you could do all KINDA different stuff! Since it stores dual VE maps you could do an "economy" and "sport" mode switch. Man I bet I sound like a huge nerd about now.. and well... I suppose in the computer programmer/ I work as an IT for a living sense, I am a nerd







Thats just part of my life though... (anyone believe me? lol) 
Anyways, ultra megasquirt should be all kinds of fun!!








Anyone make any progress on using the CIS-E Ignition module and distributor for MSnS yet??? I decided to thouroughly clean my garage before I begin that project...







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by CrackerX at 12:52 PM 8-16-2004_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (bahnblitz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bahnblitz* »_BTW could MS function for timing only and not fuel?


I dont see why not.... You just have to have a fuel system that wont care if it suddenly stops controlling ignition. The stock CIS-E Fuel controller only requires a tachometer input as far as ignition goes... I dont THINK disconnnecting the outputs for the ignition module and such would be any kind of a problem. 
Motronic? I dont know... there may be a problem with the motronic fuel system if it doesnt control spark as well. Midnights did have trouble when he tried to allow motronic to control spark but not fuel. (No airflow sensor pot input to the ECU).


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_...wish i were smart...









If you got this far, your definilty in the smart category http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
There are a few exceptions to that however, as I am just plain retarded. The obvious is something that can take me DAYS to grasp lol.


----------



## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

for carbs but I wanna be the first!!! (keep it DL lol!) weber 45s and a nice EDIS install for my bros rabbit


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (bahnblitz)*

wow, carbs and EDIS














that'd be unique and no reason not to.
on a side note, i found a buddy with the ignition coil and ignition module (used on EVERY pre-92 vw except motronic 16v and digi II) so i'm going to be doing a lot of research and planning and probably start the MSnS on this Saturday. all of you CIS-E guys can just ditch your knock box with no need to buy any addition parts for the spark conversion.


----------



## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

if anyone needs a coil/ignition module i have a spare setup here!


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (bahnblitz)*

if any of you guys have done MSnS, please check out my diagram and see if it looks right. i wont be starting the install until next week, but i want to make sure it looks good.
_diagram removed due to inaccuracy... will edit and repost for all to enjoy!_ 


_Modified by MidnightGLI at 11:56 PM 8-20-2004_


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

*Re: Finished rebuild and ms install*

Hey guys add another success to the books have 2100 miles on my rebuild using ms.
Specs: 1.8KR - 83mm 1.9L pistons, TT276 cams, autotech hd springs, ti. retainers, autotech adj. cam gear, lightened flywheel, 4-1 header, VWMS windage tray, 30lb injectors, RMR fuel rail, lightened+balanced rods,pistons,crank, ARP head&rod bolts, port&polish, new everything.... and megasquirt of course.
So 6mths labour and £3500 later i have a new engine running on this fantastic standalone system. 
Have got a couple of issues to iron out tho i was wondering if some of you ms guru's (crackerx, ottawag60) could help me








I have the VE table dialled in pretty well up to 4k, but need to do the datalogging in the fun region. Its set up a bit wrong have a lot of high load, high rpm VE values above 100 but it runs well so dont want to mess with it. The initial req_fuel calc provided gave me a value of 10 running 4squirts alternating soa downloaded value of 5. Got it started initially with that value but since have lowered all the way down to 6.6 downloaded 3.3, runs fine on this so have left it.
Has a high MAP vacuum and idle, def. the crazy cams tho. Have the timing set at 0deg, TT recommends +3deg, only starts to pull like a train at 6k all the way to the 7800 i have set in ms as the max rpm bin







, would def pull higher if i set it tho, should make for some fun experimenting. I think the springs are rated to 8k, do you think its that dangerous to push it a bit higher? Well once i have the timing set at +3 i hope this brings the powerband down a lot, hoping for a pull at around the stock 4k, maybe 5k... we shall see, anyway enough ranting...
1. Cold starts- It fires after a couple of cranks but then immediately dies unless i give it some gas until it warms up to at least past the double dash on the mfi, doesnt seem to be effected much at all by richening or leaning the warmup enrichment.
2. I have kept powersteering - so it drives like a nice car, when in use it loads the engine and the rpms drop by 100-200, which is not a problem, esp. as the high idle allows room for this. When at full lock however the load just bogs the engine down until it dies. I have tried the trick suggested by ms manual referring to rolling idles required by big cams, putting a rpm bin below idle say 700rpm and placing a massive VE value (usually double idle value) in that section so as soon as the rpms drop the enrichment caused would compensated and bring it back up but to no avail...







to anyone with any suggestions...



_Modified by vdublegend at 4:28 PM 8-19-2004_


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Finished rebuild and ms install (vdublegend)*

I found a fast idle valve made all the difference.


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

interesting, now to find a working fidle valve. thanks


----------



## VW_NUT (Mar 16, 2000)

*Re: (vdublegend)*

Is anyone running EDIS for spark? Can I just grab an edis module from an escort? 
Anyone have a dyno of their car on Megasquirt.


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (VW_NUT)*

scandalous has it running on an 8v.
I am also using EDIS. It sparks really well. I did have to make a set of custom plugwires but it was easy. I haven't tested it with the Megasquirt yet though, because I am waiting for my new relay board kit to come in (fried the other one while being stupid). I should get that today or tomorrow and I will then install it and see how it runs. The car ran with the stock distributor and MS and now the spark works, soooo I am hoping that nothing else breaks and the car runs good. Then I get to tune the timing map.










_Modified by plohip at 11:18 AM 8-20-2004_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Finished rebuild and ms install (vdublegend)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdublegend* »_Hey guys add another success to the books have 2100 miles on my rebuild using ms.
Specs: 1.8KR - 83mm 1.9L pistons, TT276 cams, autotech hd springs, ti. retainers, autotech adj. cam gear, lightened flywheel, 4-1 header, VWMS windage tray, 30lb injectors, RMR fuel rail, lightened+balanced rods,pistons,crank, ARP head&rod bolts, port&polish, new everything.... and megasquirt of course.
_Modified by vdublegend at 4:28 PM 8-19-2004_


Just got back from a business trip and my brain is too full to try and process the rest of your post. I just wanted to say... awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Glad to hear its working out for you.


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: Finished rebuild and ms install (CrackerX)*

i got all the parts and spent a few hours installing the parts i need to convert to MSnS. i'm still







that motronic won't control ignition by itself, but it makes sense i guess. lesson learned, all you other motronic 16v users take note and take all necessary precautions.








btw, anyone actually have an ignition map for a 16v that i can use as a base?


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

*Re: Finished rebuild and ms install (CrackerX)*

Thanks cracker, sorry i didnt say earlier but thanks for all the useful input and informative posts you and the other guru's made, you know who you are.





















Have made my life a lot easier!


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: Finished rebuild and ms install (vdublegend)*

I too would have been pretty lost without everyone here's help.


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

hey guys just learnt how to adj. timing on my autotech adj. cam gear (been set to 0 for running in purposes, and not knowing how to change) and tried changing to +3 as recommended by TT for their 276's and car just wouldnt fire, didnt have my laptop with me so couldnt fiddle with the fueling, but do you think it would be the fueling not causing it to fire.....


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (vdublegend)*

unlikely, does it fire when u put it back to 0? does it act like it wants to start just doesn't stay running or does it just crank?


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

have set it back to 0 and all is fine, it doesnt even cough or splutter, just cranks...


----------



## scandalous (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: (vdublegend)*

Are you sure your getting fuel at all?
If you are, set your priming pulse really high. Like 10-15 or something.
Then set your warmup enrichments really high too. Something on the order of 165% at whatever the ambient temperature is... that should get it going if you have good spark.


----------



## 2Turbo4X4 (Dec 12, 2000)

*Re: (scandalous)*

Anyone have a spare EDIS4 setup? I'm looking to take everything out of the Rabbit and adding the MS&S setup with EDIS. The old wiring in the poor little bunning is getting way too old.
I'd be interested in the ignition box, toothed wheel and vr sensor. The coil pack would be nice, but not necessary since Accel sells them new.
I'll be needing all the connectors as well. Anyone?
Thanks


----------



## scandalous (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: (2Turbo4X4)*

I have an extra ignition module, coilpacks, and VR sensor..
All the stuff is super available at almost any junkyard though.
I'd recomend getting as much of the escort harness associated with the EDIS as it makes wiring it in much easier.


----------



## 2Turbo4X4 (Dec 12, 2000)

*Re: (scandalous)*

I unfortunately don't have a lot of extra time on my hands. By the time I get home from work, all the yards are closed. I also work weekends sometimes or something else is going on.
I'd gladly pay extra to have someone yard out an entire setup.
As it is, I'm having issues finding the time to work on the car.


----------



## scandalous (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: (2Turbo4X4)*

IM sent...


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (scandalous)*

Question for those with EDIS running. I have everything installed. After getting a new relay board and making a new relay board to MS cable everything works (tach signal, TPS, CLT, MAT everything). When I crank it I get spark. The car will not start. The warm-up enrichment LED blinks while I am cranking. I also hear a relay clicking on and off (not the main relay since the MS doesn't reset). I am thinking that the injectors aren't actually firing. On megatune it shows the pulse width so I assume it isn't a problem with the MS. Once I get somebody to turn the key for me I will multi-meter the injector wires to see if power is getting to them. Until then, does anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## scandalous (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: (plohip)*

Give it a shot of starting fluid and turn it over. If it fires then you know it's a fuel problem.
You said you had spark, so if it doesn't fire it has to be a timing related.


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (scandalous)*

Ok, so the injectors get power. And the car coughs a little. Probably not enough fuel, I will mess with the settings and also try the starting spray.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (plohip)*

Try increasing your priming pulse and warmup enrichment settings... try 6 for the priming pulse and 4 for the pulse at 170*


_Modified by CrackerX at 4:11 AM 9-1-2004_


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

So, I used the starting fluid and still no luck. Timing it is! I guess I need to break out the timming light? I am SO getting sick of this.


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (plohip)*

i got MSnS running today!!!! i had to borrow a timing light from a buddy tonight, so hopefully tomorrow the car will be back on the road. this nSpark stuff really isn't all that difficult, fired up on the first try


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

Sweet! Ill have to give it a shot sometime soon http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I have so much stuff going on, but hopefully that sometime soon will be before next month








Anyone want to help clean my garage?? I have super discount close out prices on almost everything in it! Even the vintage Reel Tapes, Orange ceramic dinner ware, and other classic 70's type stuff my dad has in there....
the garage 
Of course.... all of the Car stuff you see on the floor is not junk... Im a lot further along than that picture, but it would be nice to have it finished... I have been working on it a little each month but I dont have time to just "get er' done"


_Modified by CrackerX at 3:26 AM 9-2-2004_


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

success!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
i've got the nSpark pretty much close to dialed in for full throttle accel and my VE map is also very close and the car is fast as hell!! albeit i put a eurosport race header and eurosport header back exhaust on since the last time i drove it with CIS, but the power increase is amazing! i don't have much to compare MS and MSnS because my basic MS wasn't playing nice with motronic ign control, but i must say having the control over spark makes so much more room for performance improvement. i would recommend it to anybody doing the MS conversion, it only takes a few more hours of wiring (if that) and it isn't difficult to tune.
now i just have to replace my valve cover gasket (leaking like a siv) and fix my exhaust leak and i'll be getting speeding tickets left and right!


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

ok, here's the official wiring diagram that i used and it works wonderfully. i made it as generic as possible so anyone can understand it. i've also uploaded a diagram for an 87 GTI 16v for Cracker to use as a reference with some scribbles of mine showing what can be removed and what needs to go where. btw, i take no responsibility if you blow up your car, i'm just trying to give a little guidance from the little i do know.
Crackers diagram
http://sites.vwsport.com/gatoe...m.jpg


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

Awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Do you mind if I post all that up on the first page?? Of course I would give credit to you for digging up the info







That really helps! I think im going to have time to try the NSpark part on Saturday







Well... maybe after re-wiring a 36' trailer, changing a drive axle on a Mazda, and working on the garage.


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

i don't mind at all, also might be helpful for people that don't read this whole thread to note that Motronic won't control ignition well without controlling fuel.


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

hey guys, as you know already have ms up and running fairly well.
I have got big cams and since running her in have been having fun in the 7k region, i have the VE table upto 8000rpm but keep hitting a wall at 7300 i think its ignition rev limiter because the exhaust pops with unburnt fuel when i hit it, and i dont know how to get rid of it.
Its a KR so running on plain old CIS for ignition, with no knock box.....


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (vdublegend)*

megasquirt n spark, you can set your rev limiter to 25k if u like.


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

I would love to do the nSpark addition, but have the harness and everything all wired in nice and tidy have to rip the dash apart to get to it then make a new loom for the bastarb. Also dont have a clue about getting started, the initial ignition curves and advanced timing and such.....
I was looking for a simpler solution.


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (vdublegend)*

there might be a chip for the cis ecu to raise the rev limiter, but now that i think about it, i don't think there is.


----------



## Freerevving (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

there is a way to remove the CIS-E rev limiter. I read about it on Vortex a long long time ago.


----------



## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

hey freerevver, i know there is a way to sort out the limiter on your cis-e systems, you guys have knock box's that deal with limiters and timing and such, i have plain ol' simple euro cis (no "-e"), and therefore dont have a knock box and have a nasty ignition cut off at 7300, and with 276's its not much fun with a power band that starts at 6k and ends at 7k. Lord what have i done to deserve this!










_Modified by vdublegend at 1:41 PM 9-7-2004_


----------



## chois (May 12, 2000)

*Re: (Freerevving)*

There were a few early CIS-E knock boxes that did not have an ignition rev limiter - or so I have been told. Also the knock box is what defines your timing curve. The 8v boxes have a more aggressive timing curve, but lower rev limit (unless they are a no limit box).


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (chois)*

All you have to do is jump your fuel pump relay. It doesnt cut out ignition, but fuel. At least, jumping the fuel pump relay worked on this one kids car ...
I am currently removing 100's of wires, re-doing the megasquirt wires, wiring up the Nspark ignition stuff, and basically cleaning up my engine bay. I really should take a picture of its current state. I think I will it looks insane... I am glad I know what all the wires do!


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

exactly! i've been reading wiring diagrams for fun (sadistic isn't it) for last few weeks. it's a good feeling to know what everything does in the engine bay and removing what isn't needed.


----------



## chois (May 12, 2000)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

There is a fuel pump relay based limiter and a knock box based limiter. Some cars don't have the knock box limiter. The fuel pump relay rev limit can be disabled as noted above.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (chois)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chois* »_There is a fuel pump relay based limiter and a knock box based limiter. Some cars don't have the knock box limiter. The fuel pump relay rev limit can be disabled as noted above.

Oh, cool http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif that is good to know

Well, here are some pictures








Click if you dare, its a mess! 
ABS Harness coming through in a somewhat factory manner with factory gromet


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

spaghetti anyone?


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

Wow, I got the nSpark working today. I just need to get some plug wires, but I get spark at the coil now. I guess I can rip out everything too now. Thanks for the diagram MidnightGLI it really made it easy. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Andy Bro (Aug 24, 2003)

*Re: (plohip)*

After getting fed up with the wiring mess in my Scirocc 16v (the previous owners really messed it up) and the fact that it won't start, I began considering the alternatives. I am interested in MS, because the Scirocco is strickly for autocross/track days, I like the tune-ability, but I wanted to know the reasonable/average cost to complete the setup. I read a figure of $1300, but he said that was on the expensive side.
Thanks for any help.


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (Andy Bro)*

i would figure about $500 on the low side and around $1000 for the biggest and best. u basically need a fuel rail, injectors, fpr, injector cups, k&n cone filter, air temp sensor and of course the megasquirt module. you can use the existing wiring for the harness. a wideband o2 sensor is recommended to for fine tuning, but not necessary, that will be one of the largest expenses if u choose that route.


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

I got my car running really well with my 450cc injectors. I also cleaned up some wiring and rerouted the MAP hose. Now, when I start it up it pops and backfires. Also, when I try to rev it up, it revs VERY slowly and sounds different. Is it misfiring?
edit---
Nevermind. I put the plugwires back on wrong 1-2-4-3 instead of 1-3-4-2 this is the second time I have done this on this car. And I was thinking to myself to not put them on backwards. sigh.
I can be a real dumbass sometimes.










_Modified by plohip at 7:22 PM 9-19-2004_


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (plohip)*

miswired plug wires... i'm sure thats the problem! HTH!


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

I drove it around some. It seems pretty quick. I just need to get new injector orings It seems that using the old ones gave a a bad vacuume leak. Oh and I will need to play with the warmup enrichments.


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (plohip)*

Got the new orings. I now idle normally. 
Now that it is getting colder at night, how are your guys' cars starting up? I need to hold my foot on the gas for a minute or two until it warms up. How about you guys?


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (plohip)*

my warmups need some more work, i usually need to pump the pedal for about 30 seconds to keep it running which makes sense because the TPS enrichments kick in everytime, so i guess i need to enrich my warmup bins. also need to mess with the warmup enrich %, because the car bogs when i give it gas on cold starts. i think there is a very fine line to walk on warmup settings.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

I've got some decent warmup numbers, and I use a cold start valve, a must IMO.
I'll be driving this car all winter too, so I should have cold starts to -30 sorted out (either that or I'm walking to work







)


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

i'm not running a aux air valve, i couldn't if i wanted too, my Fidle is being used for n'spark.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

You can always just crack the throttle open a hair... always worked for me on CIS with no idle valve.... but I dont know, its still 60* here. 
Also, I plan on updating the first post sometime this week when I get a chance....


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

CrackerX, I just swapped to your latest VW Table, it was quite close to what I had MSTweaked, so I figured your WB was better than my NB.
One question, using that VW table, my idle hunts, even when warm.
I was running much richer @ idle, what's your kpa at idle?


----------



## mk1gti turbo (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

I am just starting to fit megasquirt to my 9a turbo. Very interested in the spark capability or the megasquirt, where do you get the new 'n spark software and will i need to fit a resistor to the circuit?. Does anyone have the resistance/temperature figures for a standard coolant temp sensor for a 9a motronic?. Exelent thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Steve.


----------



## ITB16v (Sep 27, 2004)

*Re: (mk1gti turbo)*

I've been using and playing with megasquirt since the very beginning, and from experience, I can really suggest you to tunethe idle first of all then the engine VE table. To do that you disable Accel enrichment and cold start enrichment. From there you could do the accel enrichment... Once it's good then you play with the warmup bins.... Read the megasquirt HOW-TO tuno manual. it's useless to try out some other people VE, start with anything then do big datalogs and you'll get your OWN table... Every engine requires it's own parameters.


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (ITB16v)*

So, have any of the nSpark guys tried out the MSnSextra code yet?
I am playing with the megatune 2.25 build 271 with the extra code enabled and it is looking really nice. I am really liking the 12x12 maps for both fuel and spark. Works with EDIS too. and has the dual table code. 
http://www.jsm-net.demon.co.uk/msns-extra/ for anyone that hasn't read about it yet, check the nspark section on msefi.com


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttawaG60* »_CrackerX, I just swapped to your latest VW Table, it was quite close to what I had MSTweaked, so I figured your WB was better than my NB.
One question, using that VW table, my idle hunts, even when warm.
I was running much richer @ idle, what's your kpa at idle?

MY Kpa at idle is currently about 30 kpa. 

_Quote, originally posted by *ITB16v* »_it's useless to try out some other people VE, start with anything then do big datalogs and you'll get your OWN table... Every engine requires it's own parameters. 

The point of me posting my VE Table is so that people with NA 16V engines can have a decent starting point for their VE table. (this is the 16V engine forum) The VE Table I have is for a stock 2.0 16V Engine with 83.5mm pistons. Yes different injectors, fuel pressures, required fuel values... engine components... etc... There are lots of factors that will change an engines operating paramaters, but again the goal was a good starting point.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_
MY Kpa at idle is currently about 30 kpa. 


any hunting problems?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

Not too bad, those %'s in the VE table may be a tad too high for your req fuel value. IM sent.


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

I got my coil today and started the car with MSnS extra. I am still using the 8x8 maps for now, I need to make a base 12x12 one. I am getting slight bucking in the 1400 to 1700 RPM range right as I lean on the throttle from decel, the bucking seemed to get worse as the sun set and the temps dropped some.. Also, I am idling at around 900 and a 45kpa MAP value. It sometimes hunts and goes to 1000, but it will settle again at 900. I actually drove it to Autozone to get a tire pressure gauge and the car drove pretty damn good. I should have taken my camera to take a pic of it there. lol


----------



## badroccog60 (May 17, 2004)

Ottawa, do you have any videos or audioclips of your g6016v being driven. 
I would like to hear what it sounds like since mine won't be running untill my ms comes in and i get it working.
curtis


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (badroccog60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badroccog60* »_Ottawa, do you have any videos or audioclips of your g6016v being driven. 
I would like to hear what it sounds like since mine won't be running untill my ms comes in and i get it working.
curtis

MS is on my daily driven 16vGTI, my 16vG60 is apart, headporting etc...
I've got some video's of it running when I first fired it up. IM or email me and I'll send you a couple.
I'll be installing a MS into my 16vG60 this winter, we should keep in touch so we can swap maps.
What setup are you using for your 16vG60?


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

How do I ground the MS unit and the sensors? 
I have the relay board. The last harness I built I just ran wire#1 to #1 on upto #37 to #37 - I didn't ground anything to the engine or chassis. It ran pretty well, but I don't think it's the right way to do it.
Do I ground the pins: 7,8,9,10,11 from the MS unit to the engine/chassis ground, or do I just connect these to the relay board end of the DB37?


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (ijcameron)*

make sure all the connections that are supposed to be ground are attached the valve cover or some other good ground.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (ijcameron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ijcameron* »_How do I ground the MS unit and the sensors? 
I have the relay board. The last harness I built I just ran wire#1 to #1 on upto #37 to #37 - I didn't ground anything to the engine or chassis. It ran pretty well, but I don't think it's the right way to do it.
Do I ground the pins: 7,8,9,10,11 from the MS unit to the engine/chassis ground, or do I just connect these to the relay board end of the DB37?

If you made a harness that had a wire connecting all 37 pins your fine as long as the relay board ground wire runs to the battery http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif The sensors and everything will use that single ground to the battery which is the best location.


----------



## VWGTIRCR (Nov 7, 2002)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

What throttle bodies are you 16vers using??? Excellent thread!!! very informative. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (VWGTIRCR)*

passat auto 16v or G60 auto


----------



## VWGTIRCR (Nov 7, 2002)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

ok, I am about to purchase a passat automatic 16v throttle body. is there anything I have to do to make this work? or will it just bolt on? TIA!


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (VWGTIRCR)*

Bolton


----------



## VWGTIRCR (Nov 7, 2002)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

Awesome! Thanks!


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

Figured I would give a little update. I installed my new headgasket last week and now the car runs much better/ is faster. I only have one problem, the car dies when I push the clutch in at 2500 RPM or more. I think that I read on megasquirt.info that you can richen it at a low RPM value to fix it, but I can't find it anymore. I just want to confirm that this should help me.


----------



## plohip (Sep 12, 2001)

*Re: (plohip)*

Fixed it. I messed with the idle screw and the fuel a little and it doesn't die at all today. I drove it 96 miles without problems. I also fixed a stumbling issue from between idle and 4000 RPM, the Dist. Cap was cracked and #2 was grounding. My brother also messed with the timming map some. Overall, the car is quick and the drivability is great!


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (plohip)*

I richened up my 500 rpm bins, so that if the motor stumbles, it has a little extra gas to come back up to idle.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

My car hasnt run in about 2 months or more...







Too many other projects http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif I might get it up and running here soon though... The wiring mess is coming along nicely.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

I'm daily driving mine, and plan to do so all winter, so I'll have some good cold weather numbers for everyone by Jan.


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

awesome, i'm daily driving mine as well. cold starts are a little hard and i'm having some other minor issues (non-MS related).


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*









What does pin #24 in this diagram connect to? I had it supplying power to my Hall Sensor (I was assuming that it was supplying constant 5V). I also blew up my MS board last night - something tells me I made a mistake








Now I'm thinking that it's still supplying the tach. input signal and that it's being used as a "pull up" circuit - when the coil fires, this grounds the circuit and sends RPM impulses to the MS.
So, Should pin#24 be left empty?

















_Modified by ijcameron at 2:38 PM 10-31-2004_


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (ijcameron)*

pin 24 should be disconnected, you can power your hall sender via a switched 12v or by pin 27. your tach signal is now being pulled directly from the hall input.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_pin 24 should be disconnected, you can power your hall sender via a switched 12v or by pin 27. your tach signal is now being pulled directly from the hall input.

Yea question about that.... I already had my tach signal coming from the hall input. I also had a 3k ohm resistor inline with it becuase the voltage was pretty high..... 
Do I still need to have this 3k ohm resistor????

Sorry about the trouble IJ http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif that stinks. Have a few beers and keep goin!














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by CrackerX at 3:00 AM 11-1-2004_


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

i did not use any resistors at all, i took pin two straight into the megasquirt box. i'm thinking that MS has some built in resistors (possibly only when all the jumper modifications are made) but i haven't had a problem.


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## vdublegend (Feb 9, 2004)

Have been daily drivin' all ok, 6k miles on new rebuild with ms, apart from cold starts. But need to install a ISV to help things along a bit. Also waiting to setup 'n'Spark, once setup and tuned, will take to rollin road to get tweaked.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Dave Cap*

A little update, I've been having warmup enrichment bucking problems, rare, but annoying enough.
Turns out it was also false triggering ASE during startup.
What was happening was I was getting rpm spikes (6000rpm), not often, but every once and awhile. Datalog showed me that's what's going on.
From some helpful advice at msefi.com I installed the Dave Cap and the problem has disappeared.
*I recommend that everyone install the Dave Cap*


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Dave Cap (OttawaG60)*

Yea I installed that right off the bat... I was having trouble getting a steady tach signal from the negative side of the coil.... but then I ended up getting the tach signal from the distributor. Glad the Dave cap fixed the problem for ya http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Man I got to get back to work on my car...







I miss it very much and I am really excited about getting the megasquirt & spark extra setup.
Plohip... You have that running right? Is it hard to setup? Only change is the 12x12(?)ignition map and the 12x12 VE map right??


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: Dave Cap (CrackerX)*

bump, don't want this to fall into the archives.


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## Action Jackson (Nov 20, 2001)

*Re: Dave Cap (MidnightGLI)*

Ya, another bump.. it been a while
I[m just starting to read up on MS. I think I want to switch to MS on a stock 16v, then worry about an FI build once the car runs well stock.


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## efritsch (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: (detvw)*

I know this thread hasn't been touched forever and a day but it interests me. I'm currently swapping a 2.8L Audi V6 into my 1987 Fox. I have some people telling me to go with the stock V6 ECU and an use Vag-Com to modify it. (turn off the ABS and other systems that my car doesn't have.)
Would Megasquirt be better? Give me some info please!!!


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## wethvento (Jun 3, 2002)

this is the best thread ever


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (efritsch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *efritsch* »_I know this thread hasn't been touched forever and a day but it interests me. I'm currently swapping a 2.8L Audi V6 into my 1987 Fox. I have some people telling me to go with the stock V6 ECU and an use Vag-Com to modify it. (turn off the ABS and other systems that my car doesn't have.)
Would Megasquirt be better? Give me some info please!!!

i don't know much about the ECU control with the 2.8 V6. but the VAG-Com is probably a good recommendation. if that motor is DBW (drive by wire) or has coil pack ignition (which i'm sure it does) than using MegaSquirt would be very difficult if not impossible.


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## mk1gti turbo (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

I would not have got my megasquirt conversion going without this thread







. 
16vt+msn's=


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (mk1gti turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk1gti turbo* »_I would not have got my megasquirt conversion going without this thread







. 
16vt+msn's=











good to hear that we helped you out! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

here is my most recent ignition map, it was derived from a factory ign map for the 16v posted previously (i would give credit where credit is due if i could remember). but anyway, i took that map and tweaked the bins and smoothed it out and modified it a bit to come up with this. this is perfect IMO.


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## live2board87 (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: (plohip)*

anybody selling a megasquirt completed ECU? IM me


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## wolf rocco (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (live2board87)*

wow guys thanks for the reading 
do you guys mind if i ask how much it cost you to do a complete setup ?
im thinking about trying to attempt this for my Eaton g60 motor so i can tune some of the little problems i have . plus it will save me cash so i dont have to get a custom Chip done


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (wolf rocco)*

bout $180 (don't remember) for the megasquirt board unassembled (it's really fairly easy to solder together, if you have never done it, just get a cheap fine electronics soldering iron and some solder and just practice on crap, it really is easy). you can buy new automotive grade wire to make a new harness or just cut your oem harness and splice in and remove wires where necessary (thats what i did). and you need a $20 aluminum case from a electronics supplier. and whatever application specific EFI parts you need (ie. fuel injectors, fuel rail, etc.). i would plan on spending between $200-$300 and LOTS of time reading, reading, reading, reading and reading then you can plan on spending LOTS of time tuning, tuning, tuning, tuning and tuning. it's definatly not an easy plug and play deal nor is it a weekend (or week for that mater) job, especially the first time around. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## wolf rocco (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

k so far im ok on the parts i have everthing run boost at the moment but im using digi 1 with stock injectors and a 3.5 bar FPR and a chip i picked up . im running 15 psi at the moment if i ever run more i want to upgrade injectors . so im hoping that mega squirt will open up a diffrent world for me so i can see what the motor is doing from the laptop .


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (wolf rocco)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## I-Rocco2 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

Where do you guys mount your ECU and relay boards I have a 16V Rocco. Will it fit behide the glove box? Or is that to hot in the winter?


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (I-Rocco2)*

i have my ecu mounted in my console but i have an a2. but you could put it in the glove box, that would be a good spot.


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## live2board87 (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

how does the megasquirt know when to fire the injectors? I will be using stock cis-e ingnition.


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (live2board87)*


_Quote, originally posted by *live2board87* »_how does the megasquirt know when to fire the injectors? I will be using stock cis-e ingnition.

It takes an rpm feed from the coil neg or hall sender, but it's batch injection so doesn't sync the injector firings to cylinder position if that's what you mean.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (martyn_16v)*

You know, I should update the first page with stuff from the thread.  I think I will work on that....







and try to make it good...
Glad to hear this thread has helped a few people http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

CrackerX, add my msq to your first page, as my idle numbers are different and I run mine in Canadian winter.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif You can IM me suggestions, I am sure lots of people have them


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

and post up your enrichment numbers and tpsdot, mine is all wacky...


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## BlownGTT (May 14, 2004)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

So how many guys are actually runing megasquirt on a FI car? All you guys are using distributors for spark? megasquirt website is way to informative, you need time to fit in there. So for around $180 you get Everything needed except wiring?


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif You can IM me suggestions, I am sure lots of people have them









I posted my info here, it would be good to add since it offers people with an idle screw a VE table.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1805445


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (BlownGTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlownGTT* »_So how many guys are actually runing megasquirt on a FI car? All you guys are using distributors for spark? megasquirt website is way to informative, you need time to fit in there. So for around $180 you get Everything needed except wiring?









I'm installing one on my 16vG60, my daily driven 16v is just plain MS.
I wanted to see how it handled daily driving and winter.
I recommend getting the relay board, it adds $$ to that 180.


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## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

Hey guys, I am installing MS on my 16v rabbit, and I just need to know what options I have for a fuel rail. I like the Bahn Brenner one for $170, but I was hoping to find an OEM solution for cheaper. Will the 1.8t fuel rails fit on a 16v? 
Also, if anyone has any components they might want to sell, I need a fuel rail, FPR, injectors, TPS, and ambient air temp sensor. Thanks, 
-Nick


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## Rd_Warrior (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (NTRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NTRabbit* »_Hey guys, I am installing MS on my 16v rabbit, and I just need to know what options I have for a fuel rail. I like the Bahn Brenner one for $170, but I was hoping to find an OEM solution for cheaper. Will the 1.8t fuel rails fit on a 16v? 
Also, if anyone has any components they might want to sell, I need a fuel rail, FPR, injectors, TPS, and ambient air temp sensor. Thanks, 
-Nick

One guy here did a acura b series fuel rail with fuel hose to extend it....it worked, but he had issues , with the hoses breaking, if you could *somehow* extend them, it'd work hella good.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (Rd_Warrior)*

Updated the first page somewhat, havent had too much time to mess with my megasquirt very much but I hope the edits help anyone building megasquirt...
After re-wiring/completely GUTTING the whole car except for the factory dash I still have a TON of projects to finish on this thing! I am getting a LSD put in my 02J tranny, trying to get my roll cage in, welding a few rust spots/holes in floor board, I need to purchase a new race suspension, need some light weight racing rims, need to finish my flow bench so I can figure out how to port a 16V head, need to port a 16V head, need to modify the ITB linkage, ........ ahhhhhh







does it ever end? 
Oh yea... Anyone want to sand/paint my car for me? For free? lol..... didnt think so. I guess she will just have to race in 6 color fashion...


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## Rd_Warrior (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_Updated the first page somewhat, havent had too much time to mess with my megasquirt very much but I hope the edits help anyone building megasquirt...
After re-wiring/completely GUTTING the whole car except for the factory dash I still have a TON of projects to finish on this thing! I am getting a LSD put in my 02J tranny, trying to get my roll cage in, welding a few rust spots/holes in floor board, I need to purchase a new race suspension, need some light weight racing rims, need to finish my flow bench so I can figure out how to port a 16V head, need to port a 16V head, need to modify the ITB linkage, ........ ahhhhhh







does it ever end? 
Oh yea... Anyone want to sand/paint my car for me? For free? lol..... didnt think so. I guess she will just have to race in 6 color fashion...

Still gonna be rocking EDIS on it? Lemme know how you go about doing a trigger wheel mount and the trigger sensor mount


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (Rd_Warrior)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rd_Warrior* »_Still gonna be rocking EDIS on it? Lemme know how you go about doing a trigger wheel mount and the trigger sensor mount









I was gonna try to copy a SDS setup on a rabbit, but the guy who owns the car is not around very much. Since it is so easy I am probably just gonna go the MSnS CIS-E ignition module route. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif However, I still want to go with EDIS so I dont know


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## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

I just ordered everything from Glen's Garage! Can't wait!


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## 16vExarKun (May 20, 2003)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

What did you guys use for an air temperature sensor? I thought the sensor in digiII was part of the mass air flow assembly.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (16vExarKun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vExarKun* »_What did you guys use for an air temperature sensor? I thought the sensor in digiII was part of the mass air flow assembly.

I used digi-2 for my 16v GTI, but you need the open element GM one for boosted apps (reacts faster)


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## 16vExarKun (May 20, 2003)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

Where did you get the sensor? autozone?


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (16vExarKun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vExarKun* »_Where did you get the sensor? autozone?

Digi-2 or GM?


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## 16vExarKun (May 20, 2003)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

The digiII.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (16vExarKun)*

the open element GM one works nicely, just snag that and drill a hole in your intake a size too small and thread that biatch in. DONE!


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## Rd_Warrior (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

If any of you guys wanna hook me up with some decent motronic fuel lines an injectors till I can piece together my megasquirt/EDIS setup...lemme know


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## 83rabbGTi (Jun 1, 2001)

*Re: (Rd_Warrior)*

let me ask a question...im sure it salready been answered in this thread.... but i dont feel like readin ghte whole thing. what benefits do you get for runnning this system with a stock 16v? is there any horsepower gains?


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## 16vExarKun (May 20, 2003)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_the open element GM one works nicely, just snag that and drill a hole in your intake a size too small and thread that biatch in. DONE!

Ok then can you tell me how much it is and where I might find it. What cars did they come in. Im planning on going turbo in the future so it may be worth while.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (16vExarKun)*

i just did a search on ebay for "IAT" or "air temp sensor" or the like... it was like $10 with the weatherpack plug. the megasquirt.info site has all the cars that originally came with that sensor. just go to autozone and say you need a GM air intake temp sensor with the open element. have em pull out a few and look at them.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

btw, i've got my old motronic fuel dizzy, injectors and cis lines if you have a need.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (83rabbGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *83rabbGTi* »_let me ask a question...im sure it salready been answered in this thread.... but i dont feel like readin ghte whole thing. what benefits do you get for runnning this system with a stock 16v? is there any horsepower gains?

I scored 128.9 @5800 RPMS at the wheels with a almost stock 2.0 Motor. It had TT Catback exhaust, 83.5mm pistons, and an extrude honed 42mm intake manifold(adds nothing). The stock 2.0 dyno's I have seen put around 109-113 at the wheels so thats a pretty nice gain!
P.S That was before I installed a wideband O2 sensor to properly tune the VE table, and it was still running stock ignition. I have no doubt the car runs better now and would net better dyno results.
*OK Everyone, here is a proposal:* 
Would people like to see another dyno run the same engine internals that ran 128.9? 
The differences/reasons for another run are: fine tuned VE table, stock ignition replaced with MSnS, 48lb injectors setup 2 per bank(I dont know if that works yet








), and I think thats it. Anyways, she should turn out more than 128.9 whp with those changes. 
The reasons for me not to make another run are: I have another bottom end ready to put in!!!

So I dont know, PM me if you really really want to see another dyno run, otherwise screw it I want to put this other engine in.



_Modified by CrackerX at 5:06 AM 3-23-2005_


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

would be interesting to see how much you gained, but would be a waste of your money for the most part. so i say drop the bottom end in. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Rd_Warrior (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_btw, i've got my old motronic fuel dizzy, injectors and cis lines if you have a need.

Hook it up! ...you gots a pm.


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## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

help me!
Post here or there,
Thanks
Kevin


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

arise from the dead!


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## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (hasnfefr)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (hasnfefr)*

Anyone have tach drop problems?
I'm running MSnS -E (021u3), just this weekend I developped a tach drop.
Happens with both the MS and the cluster.
Anyone else seen this problem? Thoughts on it's cause?


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## victor2.0 (Jul 6, 2004)

WOW.....still wondering if this thread will help me or confuse me when i go this direction with my car


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## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (victor2.0)*


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (hasnfefr)*

Back from the dead, going to be putting megasquirt on my rocco 16V here soon. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Hope this post has been helpful to more people than its confused


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## parasight (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

been watching this thread for a while now..
when you say jumper pin 27 and pin 24, is that in the cable, or on one of the boards?
I've got the D8 zener jumped, as well as the x11-xg1, and the x12 to JP1 - 8.
what else (aside from the external wiring of the ignition module) do I need to do to get this system working?
..having trouble following the thread because so many different things seem to work!
vehicle is a 2.0 16v scirocco, I have a relay board, ECM and LC1 wideband currently installed and powered- have not run on megasquirt yet.


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## diddle (Nov 6, 2004)

*Re: (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_ going to be putting megasquirt on my rocco 16V here soon 

Same here. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (parasight)*


_Quote, originally posted by *parasight* »_been watching this thread for a while now..
when you say jumper pin 27 and pin 24, is that in the cable, or on one of the boards?
I've got the D8 zener jumped, as well as the x11-xg1, and the x12 to JP1 - 8.
what else (aside from the external wiring of the ignition module) do I need to do to get this system working?
..having trouble following the thread because so many different things seem to work!
vehicle is a 2.0 16v scirocco, I have a relay board, ECM and LC1 wideband currently installed and powered- have not run on megasquirt yet.


crap, never saw this post! Did you figure out the answer to your questions yet?


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

Ot, 
I've got tach drop problems, the crew at MSEFI.com suggestd updating to the newest code as the solution. I haven't yet as it seems to go away as the car warms, dunno......but my intentions are to update as soon as I get my IC done.....


----------



## Freerevving (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: (Andrew Stauffer)*

is it me, or does mega-squirt seem as problematic as a scirocco?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (Freerevving)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Freerevving* »_is it me, or does mega-squirt seem as problematic as a scirocco?

No no no my friend, A scirocco's problems never end. Once I got my megasquirt setup to work correctly and tuned it has been fine ever since. That is different from a scirocco, where you fix problem A to move on to Problem B.. and then sometimes theres that damn problem K that intermitently rears its ugly head...

Andrew: Where are you getting your tach signal from? If its from the hall sensor of the distributor? I had no tach problems grabbing the hall sensor there with a "Dave" cap installed as mentioned in the initial construction of the board.


----------



## Rd_Warrior (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

Anyone on the left coast wanna help me install it







kekeke


----------



## Rd_Warrior (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (Rd_Warrior)*

Oh yeah, guys, I had an idea last time I was at the junkyard, seems that 1st gen 4g63 powered mitsu's got this cam angle sensor that runs off a cam . It looks VERY similar in mounting to the 16V distribtor. I was thinking if I can get that to fit, you might not even need a trigger wheel and sensor to run EDIS


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (Rd_Warrior)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rd_Warrior* »_Oh yeah, guys, I had an idea last time I was at the junkyard, seems that 1st gen 4g63 powered mitsu's got this cam angle sensor that runs off a cam . It looks VERY similar in mounting to the 16V distribtor. I was thinking if I can get that to fit, you might not even need a trigger wheel and sensor to run EDIS









Keep us posted http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and pictures would be great too


----------



## Rd_Warrior (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

Well,
I should be able to get you a pic of the CAS....I was reading on MSEFI.com forums some Eclipse AWD owners using that to run their EDIS stuff...so I just kinda put 2 and 2 together, now I just gotta see if the key on the sensor'll fit
*edit* here's an ebay link with one, the only thing i'm worried about is modding the key so it'll fit.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...=WDVW


_Modified by Rd_Warrior at 1:09 PM 7-16-2005_


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (Rd_Warrior)*

might take a lot of research and a bit of fabrication to get that to work properly. but it would be nice to get that to fit in place of the distributer. it appears that is just a hall effect sender, have you researched that at all? do you have any links from MSEFI.com with people using that to trigger EDIS, it'd be very interested in reading about it.


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## parasight (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_crap, never saw this post! Did you figure out the answer to your questions yet?

the answer to my questions ended up being a polo 16v vac advance/points distributor.. at least to get me through waterfest.
with about a half day to tune it, and using the -extra 12x12 fuel maps and 1950's technology ignition system I scored two trophies in the autocross, so I guess it did the trick for now.
once it started getting hotter out, the coolant/intake temp readings went above what we actually tuned, which made for a sputtering good time.
I'm going to try tackling the spark control again now that I dont have an event looming over my head, I'll let you know how it goes.








black scirocco in the foreground is me..


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## Ribulose16v (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

I have a 16v scirocco and want to do the megasquirt install when Winter rolls around. What hardware do I need? Is there a link on the list of components needed to switch from cis-e to efi such as fuel rail and other misc things? 
Found this in my search
http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum...67447
If people could verify and/or elaborate I appreciate the help for getting me up and runnung http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Ribulose16v at 10:29 AM 7-24-2005_


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Ribulose16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ribulose16v* »_I have a 16v scirocco and want to do the megasquirt install when Winter rolls around. What hardware do I need? Is there a link on the list of components needed to switch from cis-e to efi such as fuel rail and other misc things? 
Found this in my search
http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum...67447
If people could verify and/or elaborate I appreciate the help for getting me up and runnung http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by Ribulose16v at 10:29 AM 7-24-2005_

did you read the first post in this thread? if there is anything there that doesn't make sense, feel free to expand on your question. also read, read, read, read, read the megamanual http://www.megasquirt.info. that'll get you started. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

Just put up a section listing most of the parts/hardware needed to do the swap other than the obvious megasquirt controller, relay board, etc. If I left anything out shoot me an IM so I can put it up there. In fact, if anyone has any suggestions for that first page shoot me an IM if I like them, then I will put them up there







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Ribulose16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ribulose16v* »_Found this in my search
http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum...67447


That thread is the most useful thing on the internet and the author is a genius








On a more serious note, don't put your air temp sensor where I did, it suffers hugely from heatsoak stuck there. Being directly in the airflow instead of out on that elbow doesn't make any diffference either, it needs to get further away from the exhaust methinks.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (martyn_16v)*

Just put a link to your sweet post Martyn_16v http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rs4-380 (Dec 12, 2000)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

is there any reason that one could not use stock 1.8t injectors??


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (rs4-380)*

nope, stock 1.8T injectors should work fine.


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_Just put a link to your sweet post Martyn_16v http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

cool







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (martyn_16v)*

I plan on controlling fuel and ignition, and would like to have a stepper IAC control.
Do you guys think it's worth getting MSII, or should wait for the ultra MS?


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

waiting for UMS might get a little "old", it's been rumored for years now, i'm sure it'll happen at some point but who knows when. i would recommend either MSII or look into VEMS "GenBoard", the site is a little funky to navigate but the features are dynomite. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

Yea what UMS is trying to accomplish is a bit of nightmare to make "anyone proof" The programmable I/O ports have to be a nightmare to get working correctly. Think about setting an I/O to receive different ranges of voltage while at the same time being able to possibly put different ranges of voltage out. And then have the end user re-arrange these inputs/outputs several times.







What happens if an I/O port set to output 5 volts was really supposed to receive volts and it blows up? Its mind boggling to get all of that plus the software to work correctly.


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

I have begun the install of MS2 into my 16v scirocco, and I have a couple questions. Mainly, most everything I've read on converting from CIS-E does NOT tell me if the old CIS-E ECU can be removed. I want to run the knock box and the ignition module for now, until I get comfortable and want to switch to EDIS. Basically, I removed the stock ECU, but it had three wires connected into the knock box. I just clipped them, but...will the knock box run in limp home mode or anything like that? is the stock ECU required to be in place and powered up to run the stock knock box and ignition? Worst case scenario I can strip the knock box and just run the ignition module, but I would like to retain knock sensing ability (and I just recently replaced that knock sensor). Any suggestions or links? I haven't been able to find much of any information on this specifically. Thanks!


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

Well, I left both the ECU and Knock Box installed before going MSnS. Do they have to be? I dont _think_ so. I would say try it, the worst that will happen is you wont have any spark http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I dont think Limp mode worked from the knock box, but you will definitly know if it goes into limp mode. 
Let us know what happens, and I will post up something on the first page to let other people know about this issue.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

My buddy (parasight) did the MS conversion and took out the CIS-E computer as well as the knock box. No problems.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

I think he is trying to run MSII for fuel only while still using the factory ignition. I think...


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

The only think the KS ignition needs is power, ground, tach (hall signal) and a MAP signal. Nothing else from the CIS-E system, as I've run that on CIS basic before with no interconnections.


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## parasight (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

the only thing the knock box would be is dead weight if you left it in there.. all the wiring the ignition module needs would be coming from the MS ecu, coil and the hall sender, the knock would be unnecessary.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (parasight)*

Ok, we are kinda getting a mixed pot of ideas here. 
Lets clarify.
The ignition module must have something controlling its actions for spark advance. In CIS-E thats the knock box. KS Igntion on old CIS systems didnt need a spark advance, it had a vacuum advance system. You could also use MSII to power/control the ignition module, but as you stated you want to run stock CIS-E ignition until you can switch to EDIS.
Since you want to run the stock CIS-E Ignition system just go ahead and leave the knock box, ECU, and ign module hooked up. I know that works. The knock box stores the ignition table and controls the ignition module so it has to stay for the stock system to work. The ECU may or may not play a role in this, I dont know. If you want to figure out if a configuration without the ECU works or not, try it out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








I hope that clarifys things.



_Modified by CrackerX at 10:15 AM 8-2-2005_


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

Thanks for the quick responses. yes, I am attempting to run the stock ignition (knock box and ignition module) with MS2 doing fuel only. I figured that the huge learning curve in tuning fuel alone was enough for now, I'll tackle spark later.
I already went ahead and removed the fuel ECU out of frustration, leaving the knock box and the ignition module. There were only those three wires between the ECU and the knock box, and my bentley does not label what they are. I'll keep you guys posted on whether or not this will work, because I know most people would like to remove as much nonessential 20 year old wiring as possible. Plus, I freaking hate that CIS-E ECU, it needed to go! The wiring is much cleaner now, and many of the wires in the ECU harness were melted together (engine bay heat, not from the wires themselves it seems) and the connectors were all trashed. If this doesn't work, it is less than an hour of work to remove the knockbox as well, and have MS2 control the ignition module.


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

Actually, let me clarify a bit. I claimed the Bentley did not offer any clues to the purpose of those three wires, I was incorrect (reading schematics after 6 hours bent over a car is unreliable it seems). Two of the three wires are tied into the same inputs on the ECU as the throttle valve switch(labeled enrichment, so must be the WOT switch). I am assuming this is because the ignition map changes to a maximum value at WOT, so I may lose that function as I have removed the stock throttle body and put in one with a TPS. If this setup works, should I be able to feel the lack of maximum advance at WOT, or is that something I can easily check with a timing light? Maybe I can wire in a WOT switch as well from my old TB, the mechanical actuator arm is still there. That still leaves mystery wire number three, though it is obviously a signal wire of sorts, considering it is only labeled a .5mm wire in the Bentley. Ahh, I thought summer was going to be easy without summer classes, but I've learned (and am still learning) way more doing this than I have from most any of my classes....


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

You can probably use a MS switched output on TPS value to simulate the stock WOT switch. I can't remember if CIS-E had an idle switch, but if it did, that's the mystery wire. 
I know you can run that ignition separate of the computer, as many have the knock system on CIS-Lambda and CIS-Basic cars.


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

I don't think the mystery wire is the idle switch, considering in the schematics it just goes directly from the ECU to the knock box. I like the idea of the switched output, I am going to try to run it as is before I tackle that. If it gets to that point, I think I might as well trash the knock box as well though. *shrug* i have another day of wiring and fabricating before I have to worry about it, my fuel rail doens't even arrive until thursday anyway.


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

I don't think the mystery wire is the idle switch, considering in the schematics it just goes directly from the ECU to the knock box. I like the idea of the switched output, I am going to try to run it as is before I tackle that. If it gets to that point, I think I might as well trash the knock box as well though. *shrug* i have another day of wiring and fabricating before I have to worry about it, my fuel rail doens't even arrive until thursday anyway.


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

i have a question for y'all reguarding this diagram:








in my megasquirt box, XG1 is jumpered to XG2 to ground something coming from the opto-isolater (U4). if i follow this diagram and wire X11 (pin 25- hall sensor signal) to XG1 should i remove this ground jumper? any help would be appreciated. thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
-Drew


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

yes, i should have put a note on that diagram when i made it. XG1-XG2 jumper needs to be cut. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

dude, you are my hero. thanks for responding so fast. ive got three days to git this car up and running, and it looks like i might make it now. thankyouthankyouthankyou. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## parasight (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_yes, i should have put a note on that diagram when i made it. XG1-XG2 jumper needs to be cut. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

ooh, yeah you should have.. I tried everything I could to get that diagram to work before waterfest- might have saved me a days of almost hitting my car with a hammer.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (parasight)*


_Quote, originally posted by *parasight* »_ooh, yeah you should have.. I tried everything I could to get that diagram to work before waterfest- might have saved me a days of almost hitting my car with a hammer.

sorry for trying to help out, guess it would have been easier for you without that diagram...


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## parasight (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

I would have asked you if I knew you made it..








it worked out okay, I actually asked about it on the megasquirt board, nobody told me to cut that one.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (parasight)*

no one told me either, i just figured it out


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

^^^ it is kindof intuititive if you think about it.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (NJRrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NJRrado* »_^^^ it is kindof intuititive if you think about it. 

werd.


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

is somebody gonna make this post a stickey? its been really really useful to me. 
most of the info is on msefi.com, but the search is so damn hard to use there.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (NJRrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NJRrado* »_is somebody gonna make this post a stickey? its been really really useful to me. 
most of the info is on msefi.com, but the search is so damn hard to use there.

I posted the remove jumper xg1-xg2 above the diagram on the first page.

If anyone has anything to add to the first page that isnt there, please let me know. My goal with this post was to help people going from CIS-E/Motronic to megasquirt, and hope its somewhat useful to anyone who reads it.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

i already IM'd the moderator a while back about making this sticky, he didn't want to. i guess Digi 1 and Digi 2 are the only options...


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

ok, im at my wits end. I am installing ms2 in my 16v scirocco, but am having problems with the ignition stuff. I trashed the knock box and am attempting to run the stock ignition module. How much of the directions (including that diagram) transfer from megasquirt'n'spark to ms2 ?? I have attempted to just take the center (green) wire off the hall sensor and feeding that into pin 24 as a tach input, but it sees no RPM's while cranking, and the cranking indicator does not light up. I have tried hooking things up using the diagram with no luck either, I still cannot see a tach input. Am I wrong thinking I should see rpm's while cranking? any suggestions?


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

i think MSII requires an ign module that DOESN'T control dwell, and all VW modules do dwell AFAIK. that might be your problem.


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

tho that does not expalin why I see no RPM input while cranking....I am assuming that even if ms2 cannot control that module, I should still see rpm input while cranking, when I pull the input off the green wire from the hall sensor.....


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

Yep, you should see cranking RPM regardless. From what I remember the CIS-Motronic cars had an ignition module that didn't do internal dwell control. Also, the distro VR6 and 2L Mk3 cars have a 3pin ignition amplifier that will work as long as you use dwell control.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

the cis-motronic "power stage" doesn't do dwell? thats good to know!! might be a good option for those with MSII.


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

according to megasquirt.info there are several volkswagen and audi ignition control modules that are "dumb" and do not control dwell. I also cross posted this topic on the msefi.com board, and lance gave me a couple settings that might allow me to drive the "smart" ignition module, at what he considered an acceptable level. I was also talking to my dad (electronics guru) and after a couple seconds looking at the schematics in the Bentley, and the schematics for megasquirt, he had it all figured out and broken down. I'll post a better explanation tommorow, after he helps me get things back on track. Basically, he explained why those mods to the megasquirt PCB had to be done with the VW hall sensor. Like I said, I'll post more tommorow if/when I get this figured out, so other people going to ms2 don't have to pull out their hair like I have been all day!


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_If anyone has anything to add to the first page that isnt there, please let me know. 

With regards to MidnightGLI's ignition diagram...
You can jumper JP1-8 straight to pin 24 instead of going via X12/pin27. This frees up pin 27 for other uses if you need it. If you need +5v out from the MS it's on pin 24 already.
The Stim needs modding if you use this ignition diagram as well (whether you use pin 27/X12 or not). The MS'n'S-Extra site suggests jumpering pins 25 and 7 together on the stim, DO NOT DO THIS. If you do then T1 on the stim will spend half it's (now very short) life shorting 5V from pin 24 directly to ground. It will get very hot very quickly.
What you need to do is to cut the track between R9 and pin 24, and jumper R9 to pin 25 instead.








Bad pic of a filthy board, but it shows the cut at least. The lower cut is the one you need to make for the rpm, and the short green wire is the jumper to pin 25. The other mods on that stim are for wideband O2 simulation (with another couple of mods on the top side).


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

I'm trying to chase down an intermittent misfire at around 3-4000rpm and full throttle. It feels like a spark issue, and the logs show nothing out of the ordinary. After seeing a couple of posts on msefi about bosch modules and odd dwell I thought i'd try using the dwell control code to see what happened. The consensus from the MS'n'S-Extra forum was that even if it's a smart module turning on dwell control won't do any harm. So far my misfire has gone, but as with all intermittent problems it's probably only hiding for long enough for me to think it's fixed, then it'll come back.
The thing is i'm _positive_ I have a smart module. ETKA lists the same part for all mk2 golf's in europe, including the ones with nothing more than a hall sensor and vac advance distibutor, so it's *got* to be controlling dwell. My scrapyard explorations confirm this, they are all the same part. Time will tell, it could just as easily be a duff coil/wires/plugs but pressing one buttton is a far easier fix than swapping stuff out for now


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

ok, i have to start out this post with a long hahahahaha.
Here's the reason: got my ms2 install worked out and fired up, ended up toasting one bosch 124 ignition module because i was working too quick and didn't bolt it to the heatsink. Went back to the junkyard right as they closed, and only had time to grab a bosch module 111 off a BMW....I used a scope to verify it triggered with ms2 and seemed to work...so i got my car running, very roughly, and I drove around the block a couple times. I was pulled over on the side of the road about a half block from home, reading some megatune help files with the ignition on and my megasquirt powered up, but the engine was off. I hear a pop from the engine bay and I immedately think I've blown a radiator hose. Nope, instead, i caused my ignition coil to explode. this was at 11.30 at night, so I just pushed it home, came inside and made a gin and tonic and posted this message. Now tommorow I have to clean up this black tar goo stuff that is all over the back of my engine and firewall, and figure out what exactly i did wrong. I knew you could burn a coil out by having dwell duration be too long, but I didn't think you could make one explode! Especially when I kept the dwell duration to a short 3ms, and the maximum spark duration to a short 5ms. Anyone else running ms2 to control spark have any suggestions? (yes, please laugh, it's allowed).
Oh, one more thing, i seem to idle at around 45kpa, and I jump up to 80kpa at around 3000rpm and light throttle. I don't think i have any vacume leaks, but this doesn't seem quite right. I even went as far as removing all vacuum plumbing except the brake booster and the MAP sensor line. Is this normal?


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

45kpa seems near normal... It could be from your throttle body. If your throttle resting position is open more than other peoples then it will reflect as a higher kpa value. 
Sorry about your coil!


_Modified by CrackerX at 9:32 AM 9-29-2005_


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

i don't think there are many ppl on here that have taken the MS2 jump yet. the ignition control is the ONLY reason i personally haven't upgraded. i realize they are trying to make it more configurable and such but in my situation all it does is make it more complicated.


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

I am beginning to realize this. I should have it running today, I think I know why my coil took a nosedive. I believe it is the ignition module I am using. It starts outputting five volts to the coil from the moment I turn the ignition on (not the engine, just the ignition). If I remember right, the Bosch 124 I was using (before I fried it from not using a heatsink) only outputted on ignition events. I dunno, my dad is going to help me scope everything out and figure out whats going on today. I'll keep people posted so the jump to ms2 is easier on others!


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

I almost forgot...I have NO clue what ignition advance values are appropriate. My spark table is just the standard table generated by megatune. Anyone have any advice or direction they can get me pointed in to get a good spark table going (assuming I can get everything else working out!)


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## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kalvinlk* »_I have begun the install of MS2 into my 16v scirocco, and I have a couple questions. Mainly, most everything I've read on converting from CIS-E does NOT tell me if the old CIS-E ECU can be removed. I want to run the knock box and the ignition module for now, until I get comfortable and want to switch to EDIS. Basically, I removed the stock ECU, but it had three wires connected into the knock box. I just clipped them, but...will the knock box run in limp home mode or anything like that? is the stock ECU required to be in place and powered up to run the stock knock box and ignition? Worst case scenario I can strip the knock box and just run the ignition module, but I would like to retain knock sensing ability (and I just recently replaced that knock sensor). Any suggestions or links? I haven't been able to find much of any information on this specifically. Thanks!

I have been going through the same ordeal. This is what I have found so far: There should be 4 wires that get clipped I believe. After looking in the bentley I found that they hook up to idle switch, WOT switch, fuel pump relay, and one goes to the CISe ECU. I cut all of these and the car runs pretty well but something is not right with the timing. 
The car likes to run with a LOT of advance.... I'm guessing about 20degrees at idle. When I set it back to the factory 6 degrees, it runs like poop and feels like it is way too retarded (does that sound funny to anyone besides me?) I figure it has something to do with cutting those wires from the knock sensor unit. Because when I was running this same ignition setup with CISe, it timed perfectly. Any ideas? 
-Nick


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

I was looking through what it would take to remove the factory ECU and retain factory ignition, and it seemed you would need to either retain the stock throttle body and just add a TPS, or mod up a passat throttle body and add a WOT switch. the passat throttle body has an idle switch already, and adding the WOT switch would be easy. I am pretty confident these are important (setting base timing at idle with the idle switch) and having full timing retard at WOT to prevent detonation. The fuel pump relay switch is unimportant to run into the ECU, I believe it is what powers up the ignition coil. The last, from the ECU, is an unknown.
If you do get frustrated and are unable to get the factory ignition working, finding a bosch 124 module and controlling it with ms2 is easy to hookup if you know how. I had to learn the hard way by blowing up not one, but two coils. I should have everything finished and baselined tuned tommorow morning, it's too late tonight to sit in the driveway and idle/rev my motor. I'll put together a full writeup so other's have it a bit easier! I need to document everything I have done anyway or six months down the road I'll have no clue.


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## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

Well, I just found out from another post that you need to disconnect and plug the vacuum line going to the knock sensor control unit when you time it. I've been in rabbitGTI CIS world for too long, haha. Hopefully that is my problem. 
Does anyone know if running the ignition without a WOT switch will result in a loss of power at WOT? I figure that the WOT switch advances the timing curve in the knock sensor control unit under load and high rpms to give you better power. Any comments? 
-Nick


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## rs4-380 (Dec 12, 2000)

*Re: (NTRabbit)*

afaik the wot switch sends the ecu into closed loop (ignores 02 sensor inputs)


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## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (rs4-380)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rs4-380* »_afaik the wot switch sends the ecu into closed loop (ignores 02 sensor inputs)

Then why does it send a 12v signal into the knock sensor control unit at WOT? Wouldn't it just close the loop in the ECU?


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (NTRabbit)*

EDIT: new problem, i undid all of the hardware mods i did, even the jumber between pin 24 and pin 27 and for some reason, i am getting a crazy signal to pin 24 when nothing is attached to it. megatune tells me that my tach signal is reading like 3 trillion rpm. any ideas what wires i might have crossed or what i screwed up soldering this thing?
this isnt in response to the above topic, but hopefully someone can help.
ive setup msns -e according to midnightgli's wiring diagram, and when i go to set the trigger angle (by turning the dizzy to where the middle led turns on/off) instead of the middle light going on, the megasquirt unit turns itself off and then back on again. 
something's f-ed up, and ive checked all my power and grounds, so i think i might have botched something when i was modifying the board.
any ideas? help would be much appreciated, i just want this damn car to run and im starting to think its never going to happen. thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Drew



_Modified by NJRrado at 11:24 AM 8-20-2005_


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

I think your problem would require hands-on instead of hands-forum help







My suggestion to you would be to start froms scratch so to speak. Go over the board like you are originally assembling it and then compare to the modification diagrams. Over time, you will either see the problem or it will come to you. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by CrackerX at 9:32 AM 9-29-2005_


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

to me it looks like the passat throttle body sensor assembly can be bolted to the bottom of a 16v throttle body....am i on crack (for idle adjustment)


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*

the passat tb has its own idle screw that adjusts the rest position (open amount)

i have a couple questions of my own...(ive read the thread, excellent job so far guys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif )
where/how can i turn on the AFR target table...it shows up in my MegaTune 2.25 but its greyed out and i cant click on it...?
and also, where is the option to retard ignition timing under boost? i cant seem to find that either


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (ValveCoverGasket)*

stupid question, it sounds like somebody replaced or removed the digi2 stock IAT sensor frmo the VAM ....is this true? is there one i could swipe from another car and use? until i get a ms i neeed to replace mine and its doin the timing pull shuffle with a botched sensor


----------



## wannabaja (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*

i have built a 97 jetta 2.0 turbo and it runs but the drivability is poor. i nave a t3-t4 turbo but dont know the exact specs. it running mega squirt and spark. does anyone have a similar setup that i could borrow a map from to get it more driveable to take it to my tuner? any help is much appreciated!


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_stupid question, it sounds like somebody replaced or removed the digi2 stock IAT sensor frmo the VAM ....is this true? is there one i could swipe from another car and use? until i get a ms i neeed to replace mine and its doin the timing pull shuffle with a botched sensor










I dont think so.. your going to need a VW IAT sensor from some VW model. Most of the VW sensors have all the same outputs. 


_Modified by CrackerX at 6:22 AM 9-2-2005_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (wannabaja)*

If you are running MS, have access to a laptop, and would be willing to get a wideband O2 sensor I would suggest tuning it yourself http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
The first page of this post has fairly good summarized tuning instructions for the MSTweak program, and the program itself comes with a .pdf file full of good tuning tips http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

Well, hopefully I still have right to claim first vortex ms2 install...Everything runs great except a small stumble around 2200 rpm, low throttle input but medium to high load (low speed 3rd gear and accelerating for example). I have a few ideas of what might fix this, and it should be gone as soon as I have a few minutes to sit down and tune the car again. I'll post settings and such so anyone else performing this install will have an easier time of it than I have! Hopefully they will burn up fewer ignition components as well....


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

anyone know if the v3.0 board needs modification to run spark control? and if so, it is just the same mod as is done to the v2.2 and v1 boards?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

I read your post on msefi and didn't have enough time to answer your question. 
Anyway, here's my stab. Go to the igntion section and use a locked timing value of something like 20-30deg. Drive around. If the stumble is still there it's either a fuel problem or an ignition misfire, if it goes away, it's your spark map.


----------



## I-Rocco2 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

I built the 2.2 MS last year and want the daughter board up grade to v3.0 do I need a new complete board or can I use the daughter board? Were can I find this. Glens Garage web site says nothing about daghter boards?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (I-Rocco2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *I-Rocco2* »_I built the 2.2 MS last year and want the daughter board up grade to v3.0 do I need a new complete board or can I use the daughter board? Were can I find this. Glens Garage web site says nothing about daghter boards?

Go on the main megasquirt site and surf around there. The order forms enable you to order the daughter board and all components for it.
http://www.msefi.com/msinfo/index.html http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by CrackerX at 9:33 AM 9-29-2005_


----------



## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

I am building a v3 board to use for msns-e but I guess all the labels are different from the previous boards. For example, x11, xg1, x12, jp1 - 8 is not shown. Has anyone translated v2 labels to v3? 
I don't need the IGBT high current driver circuit because I am sending the signal to the ignition module, right?
Step 65 of the assemble guide (http://www.megasquirt.info/ms2/V3assemble.htm) is where I am now.

Thanks.


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (chadr)*

well, i got my car started tonight. but something funky is going on.
i have it wired up with led 17 spark out, my hall sensor signal wire to the tach signal pin (with pullup resistor), and a bosch 211 ignition module firing the coil.
i set my base timing using the middle led on/off thing described in the msns -e page. 
i have heard most 16v people run aroud 60-70 degrees trigger angle with this setup, however, my car wont run like that. The car will start and run between 1 and about 25 degrees trigger angle (this is the farthest i have tried, more will come tomorrow). i talked to a guy in canada who also had this problem, and i gather from what he said that he simply moved the distributor (changed his base timing) to fix it. has anybody else had this problem/know why this is happening?
the car is also running super rich, so i think im gonna put in ottowag60's fuel map tomorrow and do some tuning with the lm-1. hopefully i can figure out this spark thing.
also, does anybody know where i can get/have a spark map that i could start tuning with? it would be much appreciated!!!! thanks!
-Drew


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (NJRrado)*

Stock trigger is about 60-65deg, take the cap and dust cover off the distro and at TDC check to see if the rotor is pointing at the notch in the body. If not, move it there. Put the cap on such that #1 is aligned with the rotor if that was out of phase as well. You should be pretty close at this point. 
Double check your spark settings and make sure you're running the ignition output NOT inverted. It will do all sorts of silly things and make the car not want to run or run right at a normal timing value. 
Also, start with a locked timing value in the spark screen like 10-15deg and double check that with an advance timing light to get everything squared away before you go driving. There was a bug in an earlier version of the code that would do some funny things to the advance value if you put in a -10 lock value instead of -9.9 which worked. Strange


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (need_a_VR6)*

hmm, funky.
i have the distro rotor pointed at the arrow when the motor is at tdc, and i am sure that i dont have my spark output inverted. hopefully i can get this sorted out today.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (NJRrado)*

Im going to be building a V3 board in the next few months, and it seems a lot of people are In the meantime. If anyone has any solid stuff or figures out any solid stuff on what needs to be done to get around these problems please post it up, I am sure it will be helpful to everyone.


----------



## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (CrackerX)*

I posted on the MS message board as well :
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic...light=
There is a reply so far from someone recommending using the vb921 on the v3.0 board to control the coil... if that is the correct wording. There is a wiring diagram in the msns-e install guide. I'll give it a try when the time comes unless I hear otherwise.


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (chadr)*

anyone wanna detail what needs to be done to the v3 boards to run spark?
does it involve jumping the same connections as the v2.2 boards, as clearly the layout is completely different...


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## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (ValveCoverGasket)*

Im on the same boat, So far im under the same conclusion as the rest of us. It looks to like the v3 boards have a built in ignition control module of some sort. The msns-e websites states that it is recommended to use the onboard driver. Please correct me if im wrong.
Borrowed from the msns-e site.
- Dumb modules / V3 IGBT Since the Extra firmware supports dwell control, you are not required to use a smart-dwell Bosch module, you can also use dumb ignitors or IGBTs such as the VB921 on the V3 board. Using the VB921 is the preferred method. See the dwell control page 

http://megasquirt.sourceforge.....html


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

well, i ended up re-wiring my megasquirt according to midnightgli's diagram. This did fix my timing somewhat. 
my problem now is with setting my base timing, im following these directions i found from somebody in a uk vw club, but my megasquirt isnt reacting how it should be:
Setting the distributor and spark settings:
1) Rotate the engine to TDC
2) Power up MS (once you have set it to MS'n'S mode)
3) Rotate the distributor so that the middle LED on the ECU is on. Now rotate it anti-clockwise until the LED just goes off (sets cranking position).
4) Fix the distributor in that position.
5) Set the 'Trigger Angle' in MS to 50 degrees, and the 'Fixed Angle' to 10 degrees
6) Start the engine, and check the timing
7) Adjust the 'trigger angle' until the timing light reads 10 degrees. Don't move the distributor.
Cool Set the 'fixed angle' back to -10
my problem is with step 3. In order to make the middle led go off, i have to rotate the dizzy clockwise, not counter clockwise. I tried setting it to this point anyhow, putting the fixed angle to 10, and trigger angle at 50, and the car wouldnt start. It sounded mighty unhappy actually.
The funny thing is the only way i can get the car to run/idle is to set the distributor as far advanced (counterclockwise) as it will go, and set the trigger angle to ~80. At this setting it doesnt run real well, but its enough to be able to drive it around... sortof.
does anybody have an idea why this is happening? is there another way to set the trigger angle? thanks.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

regarding the ignition setup, this is what i did. set the distro so the car will idle, set the fixed angle to 10 degrees, turn the distro until the idle smooths out and hangs around 1000 rpms. then, start adjusting your trigger angle on the computer until you get it somewhere around 50-60 degrees, you will have to adjust your distro while you do this to keep the car running. now once you get your trigger angle right around 50-60 and the car idling smoothly around 1000 rpm, tighten the distro, you are done with it. now check your actual timing with your timing light set at 10 degrees advance and now make small adjustments to your trigger angle until the timing light shows 10 degrees. now set your fixed angle to 0 and start tuning your ign map.







 i know it's kind of a backward, round about way of doing it, but it still works just fine and helps you understand the concept a little better when doing it.

_Modified by MidnightGLI at 4:43 PM 9-18-2005_


_Modified by MidnightGLI at 4:43 PM 9-18-2005_


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

sweet, thanks for the help. do you think the problem im having with the middle led not going on/off at the right time is actually a problem? or does it not matter? 
im gonna try what you suggested tomorrow, i'll post up as to how it worked.
thanks again http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

They would probably be my instructions







I do remember it being a bit tricky setting the dizzy position, but IIRC it was mainly because where I mounted the ECU I can't see the LED's while holding the distributor. I didn't have to move it very far at all compared to how it was set for 6deg idle advance on the stock ignition.
It is fairly important to get the dizzy in the right place, this edge of the trigger window sets the cranking timing, if it's too far out you will have starting problems (e.g. if it's advanced you will be firing back against the engine during cranking and will probably have hot starting issues as well as straining the starter motor).


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (martyn_16v)*

MidnightGLI gives some good advice, and I would follow it. I'd like to know where you end up though with rotor to distro body phasing when you're done though. I didn't have a problem with the ~60deg trigger and setting so at tdc the rotor was at or very near the notch in the body. 
Be sure to double check your actual timing vs a locked value (6deg) to the flywheel mark. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

This thread needs to have a sticky!!


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (flyvwguy76)*

yes, it most certainly does, theres lots of good info here.
in response to my last post (and everybody's replies). i got everything working. my dumb self reflashed ms, and forgot to set spark out to led 17. So ms was firing the plugs based on a led 17 signal that was set to "squirt" in megatune. 
this would prolly explain the 60 deg. advance timing at idle, and the lack timing change when i adjusted the trigger angle. im amazed the thing ran at all!!!
after that, it was a cinch to set the trigger angle (63 degrees worked good for me), and it runs great. i cant wait till the motor's broken in and i can actually run some booooooost. i'll keep yall updated. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-drew


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

Updated main page a little bit... put MidnightGLI's method for ignition tuning up there. Thanks Midnight ! Ill be using that method on my Turbo Scirocco soon







Im running DIGI-I on her now but I will be putting together a V3 board soon.
Again, if anyone can post up clear cut directions for the V3 board ignition setup that would be great! I am getting married on Oct 15th, finishing up a total renovation of the house I got in June(tile floor,drywall,paint, etc.), and I am almost done with my Scirocco Turbo setup







I just have to finish some intake/inner cooler piping http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif SO I am a little too busy to start another MS project. Anyways, I still plan on keeping the first page of this post updated and eventually making it clear, concise, and cool with some HTML goodies. Sooner or later I might try to talk the future wife into making me a webpage with Flash and Graphics and such. I want to document the install on a MKII Motronic Jetta as well as on my Scirocco. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by CrackerX at 9:32 AM 9-29-2005_


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## s2je77 (Jul 20, 2005)

probably the most NOOB question n e one can ask,
ok... i have almost everything for my fuel only MS setup.... (missing the TPS)
i just got the fuel rail from eurospeed today, and i have injectors that i bought from ebay...
how should the injector fit the fuel rail? cuz mine seems loose! it won't stay in and will fall right back out... 
aren't all injectors the same size and will fit most fuel rails? 
did i get the wrong injectors?
please help!
thanx


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (s2je77)*

first off i'd replace the o-rings on the injectors


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## ditchdigger (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (martyn_16v)*

gotta stick this in my watched topics


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (martyn_16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *martyn_16v* »_first off i'd replace the o-rings on the injectors

Yep, sounds like your injector o-rings are shot. They shouldnt fit super tight, but slightly firm and they should not fall due to their own weight.
HTH


_Modified by CrackerX at 9:32 AM 9-29-2005_


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (flyvwguy76)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flyvwguy76* »_This thread needs to have a sticky!!

Yea who is the moderator for the 16v forum? Ill have to IM him or something


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_Yea who is the moderator for the 16v forum? Ill have to IM him or something

130_R i beleive
16v might still be a moderator on this forum, i forget


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Just got an idea through IM to put up a list of 16V members running megasquirt on the first page
If you would like to be included in this list please send me an IM with 16V motor size, aspiration (super/turbo/NA), MS board version, MS? or MSnS?, and anything special about your MS(nS?) setup. If you want to send me pictures of your setup just ask for my email. I can host them and put a link to the picture on the list. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

i like the list idea. sent you an im http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Yorick (Oct 31, 2001)

here's a question about injector sizing and megasquirt. 
I've been thinking of sticking with my race cams n/a for now, then going turbo (with mild cams) next spring. Everyone seems to recommend 42# injectors for a high hp turbo setup, only aren't the tuning/pulse width problems at idle, and thus have nothing to do with being under boost...?
Is it conceivable then that my car won't run any worse at idle with 42# injectors right now while n/a (with less HP) than it will next spring when FI?
TIA guys. Just ordered my megasquirt today, will be assembling it soon...


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Yorick)*

if you tune it right (req_fuel & VE) you should be fine


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*

I dont think that 42# injectors will get you to the limits of tuning the Req_Fuel and VE table, but if they do an adjustable fuel pressure regulator can probably get you where you need to be if you turn the pressure down. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## s2je77 (Jul 20, 2005)

thanx for the help, turns out... the injectors really didn't fit the fuel rail...
another noob question....
i have a 16V 2.0L engine, how do i connect the Fidle to the megasquirt?
i was told the Fidle is controlled by a signal sent in hertz... is that what the megasquirt sends?
any help / instructions / pictures will be greatly appreciated!

_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_
The middle fuel line that went to the charcoal canister is some kinda emissions thing. I dont honestly know if you can simply plug it... For now I ran mine up and then back down into a strut tower bar bolt hole. Only thing is, when I had a full tank of fuel I jacked the car up, and when I let it back down... gas came out of it! Not cool!! 
My latest understanding of why it is there is because the vacuum keeps oxygen out of the gas tank. When the car turns off the little vacuum valve closes, keeping a vacuum on the tank. Because there is a fuel pump in the tank, sparks/shorts can occur. If there is no oxygen then the sparks can spark all day long and the tank wont blow up. However, if there is oxygen then one spark and your car goes BOOM! I still don’t understand why there is a charcoal canister to filter tank fumes however.


its late, and i don't wanna spend an hr going thru 13 pgs to find out if this has been answered yet...
but the charcoal canister takes the fumes out of the fuel tank and when the canister becomes full, a series of 1 way valves will open to inject the fumes (mixture of evaporated gas and air) directly into the intake manifold side of the throttle body.
apparently (as i was told), this makes a more efficient use of ur gas and ur fumes won't be wasted... 


_Modified by s2je77 at 10:19 PM 10-8-2005_


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (s2je77)*


_Quote, originally posted by *s2je77* »_another noob question....
i have a 16V 2.0L engine, how do i connect the Fidle to the megasquirt?
i was told the Fidle is controlled by a signal sent in hertz... is that what the megasquirt sends?

The VW ISV (idle valve) is a PWM controlled valve, have a search for 'PWM idle' on msefi.com, you should turn up some decent info. I haven't hooked up a VW ISV using MS yet, but it does look fairly straightforward, i'm sure someone here must have done it by now...


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (martyn_16v)*

hey, i gots a question for yall:
could somebody give me an idea of what ballpark timing advance should be at 4800rpm and 160ish map? ive got a map thats giving 18-19 degrees advance at this point, and for some reason, it feels like im hitting a wall/flat spot. 
i know fuel is good, ive been watching datalogs from my lm-1 and im at about 11:1 all the way up (yes its rich). It honestly feels like im hitting a soft rev limiter. i checked that out, and no rev limiters are on, and i know fuel is ok, so that leads me to believe it could only be spark. Im relatively new at this spark tuning thing, so im not sure where to set things for the time being. any help would be much appreciated. thanks! 
-Drew


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (NJRrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NJRrado* »_hey, i gots a question for yall:
could somebody give me an idea of what ballpark timing advance should be at 4800rpm and 160ish map? ive got a map thats giving 18-19 degrees advance at this point, and for some reason, it feels like im hitting a wall/flat spot. 


What's your compression ratio?
18-19 degrees is way retarded IMO.
I think mine was closer to 28 deg in that range.


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

yeah you should be between 25-30 degrees at that rpm and load. load the map i posted a while back, should be pretty close to what you need.


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

my compression ratio is ~9.2:1
im gonna go looking for the map you posted, it was in this thread, right?
** do you mean the one on the first page? ie: the stock vw 16v timing map? i searched the whole thread (took awhile), and that was the only one i could find. if so, its good for my off boost numbers, but the problem im having right now is out of the range of that map.
i guess i'll just play with some values until i get something that works.
can somebody answer this question tho: what is the maximum amout of advance i ever want to run? what is the minimum? thanks.

_Modified by NJRrado at 10:16 PM 10-11-2005_


_Modified by NJRrado at 10:17 PM 10-11-2005_


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## Fast929 (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

Any chance someone has MS&S Extra wired up? Looking for how to configure my board to support VW's 4-window hall/dizzy for ign.
I'm confused as hell now. Looking at my board, I have a jumper from X11 to the D17 LED. The zener (D8 diode), is already jumped (to itself). XG1 is jumped to XG2. 
Doesn't match the setup posted by midnightGLI. Just trying to figure out how this is wired.
Thanks.


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

your setup is probably configured for led 17 spark out (which means you have spark output on pin 25 instead of fidle, X11 corresponds to pin 25).
the d8 zener should be jumpered, leave that alone.
if you want to run midnight's diagram, and keep led 17 as spark out, all you have to do is: 
1) cut jumper b/w xg1 and xg2
2) jumper xg1 and x13 (this puts your hall sensor input to S3, or pin 29 on the db37)
3) follow the rest of midnight's diagram, with the exception of connecting your spark output wire to pin 25, not pin 30 (as it is on midnight's diagram).
if you want to have fidle as spark output, you can just de-solder all the led 17 crap (there should be a resistor, as well as the jumper to x11), and run midnights diagram exactly. 
where did you get your ms board from? i take it it was alredy assembled?
htt,
-Drew


_Modified by NJRrado at 11:22 PM 10-11-2005_


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## Fast929 (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

It was already assembled.
So I take it the LED output is not the best option? I'm looking for the most robust setup to control ign with MS. Sounds like midnights setup is the better way of doing this?
Thanks again.


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (Fast929)*

no, they are both the same output, just different wiring. If you use led 17 spark out, then you can save pin 30 (fidle) to control a fast idle valve. 
you will still be using midnight's diagram (in effect) just changing where the inputs/outputs are.
im running led 17 spark out on my megasquirt, it works no differently then fidle out. If you already have it wired up, id keep it and just make the changes i suggested to midnight's diagram. 
One thing you need to make sure is that under "spark settings" in megatune you change it so that led 17 is set to "spark out," and fidle is set to "idle control." If led 17 is set to "squirt" (which is default), your car wont run very well.


----------



## Yorick (Oct 31, 2001)

bump for osnabruck


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## s2je77 (Jul 20, 2005)

does anyone know the model number of the stock coolant temp sensor for the 2.0 16V engine?
i can't seem to figure out the right numbers for easytherm...
better yet, if someone can give me those numbers, that would be EVEN BETTER!!!
thanks in advance!


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (NJRrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NJRrado* »_
can somebody answer this question tho: what is the maximum amout of advance i ever want to run? what is the minimum? thanks.


id say your minimum value should be roughly what you idle at. max i guess depends on the c/r but 30 or low 30s should be fine.
and yeah, if youre hitting a wall and its just not reving at a certain rpm @ WOT, put in a couple more degrees of spark...a degree at a time since youre having that issue under boost.

and hey that map of yours looked good, i havent driven around with it yet...tomorrow http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
perhaps ill have more to add after that


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (s2je77)*


_Quote, originally posted by *s2je77* »_does anyone know the model number of the stock coolant temp sensor for the 2.0 16V engine?
i can't seem to figure out the right numbers for easytherm...
better yet, if someone can give me those numbers, that would be EVEN BETTER!!!
thanks in advance!

there is a graph in the bentley, if you don't have one maybe i can try and find it for you.


----------



## slivervibe (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: (s2je77)*


_Quote, originally posted by *s2je77* »_does anyone know the model number of the stock coolant temp sensor for the 2.0 16V engine?
i can't seem to figure out the right numbers for easytherm...
better yet, if someone can give me those numbers, that would be EVEN BETTER!!!
thanks in advance!


The newest version of Easytherm has values for Bosch sensors.


----------



## Mickey Marrows (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (Fast929)*

Got my car running on MSnS E (v3.0 board) at the weekend using direct coil control, ie no TCI unit. I still can't quite believe it started the first time I turned the key. 
I didn't even touch the dizzy from its standard position, it ran with the trigger set at 60, I later dialled that in to 73 with a timing light.
I used Midnights VE, thanks man. Tweak3000 has altered it since, but it wasn't far off for my setup.
And yes, as above, I used MegaTherms Bosch values. Checked with a thermocouple and they seem to be within 5%. Excellent.

_Modified by Mickey Marrows at 8:08 AM 10-31-2005_


_Modified by Mickey Marrows at 12:57 PM 11-8-2005_


----------



## s2je77 (Jul 20, 2005)

the easytherm data were the only ones i tried...
in the morning, when i first get into the car (with a REALLY cold engine)... the mat is 7*C, but the CLT reads 25*C... that doesn't sound correct.. does it?


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (s2je77)*

Mines 0c 5500 20c 2500, 50c 900 and 100c 200 ohms.
I run 42lber`s at 4 bar (510cc/min) high impedance injectors on a V2.2 board with Extra with no problems, idle`s fine.


----------



## Mickey Marrows (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (s2je77)*


_Quote, originally posted by *s2je77* »_the easytherm data were the only ones i tried...
in the morning, when i first get into the car (with a REALLY cold engine)... the mat is 7*C, but the CLT reads 25*C... that doesn't sound correct.. does it?


No. I had the same, replaced my 'blue' coolant temp sensor and now the values are pretty close.


----------



## nabilsx (Jun 8, 2000)

*looking for a 16vt spark map*

guys anyone has a 16v turbo spark map and he cares to share?
infact I have a 380cc injectors with a 2.0 16v turbo engine, a fuel and ignition map would be great, if not just a spark one would be fine.
peace


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: looking for a 16vt spark map (nabilsx)*

Hey guys, I just wanted to let you all know that I did a write up on my ms converion. Let me know what ya think. Thanks
-Chris

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2297179


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: looking for a 16vt spark map (Captain16vGTI)*

i just read all 13 pages back from the start, it's amazing what we've all learned over the last year and a half... it also brought back bad memories of that stupid motronic ecu totally screwing up my ignition timing, i can't tell you the satisfaction i got from ripping the motronic board out of the casing and reusing the shell to house the megasquirt ecu. i lit it on fire in the street, the smell of burning electronics lingers for quite a long time.


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: looking for a 16vt spark map (MidnightGLI)*

i love your install of the MS board, super stealthy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
and i agree, quite a bit of knowledge on MS and its variations in the vw community now







in large part due to you guys that started this thread.
im happily running it on my 16vT now


----------



## jobimon (May 16, 2004)

*Re: looking for a 16vt spark map (ValveCoverGasket)*

why am i having such a hard time finding a throttle body with the tps


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: looking for a 16vt spark map (jobimon)*

not looking in the right place? FYI you no longer need a TPS when using MSII or MSnS -extra, it'll run your enrichments based on your MAPdot.


----------



## 3mpi (Oct 27, 2004)

first off, I would like to say this is a great post. secondly I have afew questions, I just started building my ms unit and so far everything is going really smooth. anyways my question is: is anyone running a PWM idle valve ive done some various searches but havent found anything on it.


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (3mpi)*

real men don't use idle valves...


----------



## 3mpi (Oct 27, 2004)

lol ok then, I also have a question for those who arent running the relay box, did you have any issues with wiring, any tips at all for the final install?? oh and btw, MidnightGLI your car is fairly impressive, what are you making for power if you know?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (3mpi)*

Just a note on wiring! There is some really cool tape that Summit sells, and various other places sell. Its a silicone tape that sticks only to itself and stretches three times its length. Wrapping a harness in it has several benefits: no sticky mess, easy to wrap, waterpoof, electical insulator, fixes holes in silicone hoses, good to up to 500* F, and a harness looks great wrapped in it. Since the tape is stretched when wrapped, slicing it makes it open right up for easy access to the wires. Its way better than electrical tape!
Summit sells it for $5.95 for a 10ft roll. You need about 45ft for a harness. You can check out the specs in the link below.
Summits Tape 
I can sell it to you for $12.00 +shipping for a 36ft roll.







If you buy 5 rolls Ill do it for $10.00/roll +shipping. (Limited quantity I only have 25 rolls left, but I will buy another 66 roll order if necessary) 

OK Back to wiring tips for the final install. I recommend making/measuring a harness all at the same time. If available, get some wax string thats flat and wont cut into wire insulation like kite string. This can be used to help assemble a wire harness overtop of the engine bay. Run wires to each component and then use the string to hold the wires together. You can use zip ties, but cut them as you wrap the harness to keep things looking good. Once thats done double check all your wires and cut them to length. The harness can now be wrapped outside of the car on a table(MUCH EASIER http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif). I recommend using factory connectors wherever possible. Soldered connections keep buldges from your harness, and the tape I have can insulate them. 
When connecting 2 wires to a connector, step the break in the wire. By that I mean cut one wire and then place the cut in the other wire further down. This means the final soldered connections are not side by side in the harness. This reduces bulges and any chance of a short in the harness.











_Modified by CrackerX at 3:00 PM 11-26-2005_


----------



## turboconversion (Oct 12, 2003)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

I must admit I didn't read the entire 14 pages, but If you take the signal from the Hall-sensor on your 16V distributor, do you still need to put a 60-2 triggerwheel on your car for MS2 to work for both injection and ignition ? 


_Modified by turboconversion at 3:13 PM 11-23-2005_


----------



## parasight (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

I probably should have posted this tip sooner.
with the harness in my car, I ended up using no solder, and no butt connectors.. paul and I took the wiring harness out of the _inside_ of a '97 vr6 gti.. this way, I had plenty of striped pairs (like black with green and green with black) in more than enough length to reach the inside of the car- additionally, the ends of the wires had the terminals that go inside the connectors already installed, they just needed to be pressed out of the plugs that connected to the fuse panel, then into the back of the sensor plugs.
I checked the ful length of the wire for breaks in insulation or abrasions after unwrapping it from the factory friction tape, but since it lived inside the car, it was all in great shape- I attached the plugs, ran the wires where they needed to go, and cut them to length.. then I checked them for resistance just to make sure.. but even using "previously owned" wiring was fine, and I felt better about the quality control with the original VW wiring connectors than I did with my own soldering joints. 
I still have a box with a bunch of extra wiring left over as well, in case I want to add additional sensors or something- most of the pairs were over 14' long, so I ended up with more than enough length. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
hope someone else finds this useful.
edit: I should add that this was the harness from the fuse panel to the rear of the GTI.


_Modified by parasight at 11:15 AM 11-23-2005_


----------



## 3mpi (Oct 27, 2004)

thanks guys, im sure those tips will come in really usefull when the time comes


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (3mpi)*

i just used the factory 16v motronic wiring harness, i had to make just one or two splices to make it long enough to fit in the passanger compartment (wish i had run it from the rain tray from day one...)
as for the power my car is making, i have no idea but it'll pull about a car length on a lightly modded MK3 gti vr6 up to about 80 so i'm guessing it's around 15 sec flat 1/4 mile. so maybe 150 whp? i'm not too concerned with numbers usually, all i need to know is that it's fun as fug to drive.










_Modified by MidnightGLI at 9:59 AM 11-23-2005_


----------



## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_real men don't use idle valves...









..... they just take the abuse when the g/f can't start the car at 6 in the morning


----------



## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (turboconversion)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turboconversion* »_I must admit I didn't read the entire 14 pages, but If you take the signal from the Hall-sensor on your 16V distributor, do you still need to put a 60-2 triggerwheel on your car for MS2 to work for both injection and ignition ? 


no. the hall signal is all you need. also, as of right now, I do not believe that MS2 works with 60-2 triggers, only 36-1, although support is in the works.


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (derekste)*

ok, i've taken a few minutes and updated my "infamous" diagram a bit to fix some inaccuracies and add a few helpful hints. if anything is incorrect, spelled wrong or want me add something (space is getting limited), let me know. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jobimon (May 16, 2004)

*Re: looking for a 16vt spark map (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_not looking in the right place? FYI you no longer need a TPS when using MSII or MSnS -extra, it'll run your enrichments based on your MAPdot.

so with ms2 with spark i don'tt NEED the tps or are you saying that i can get by without but i can still use it


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: looking for a 16vt spark map (jobimon)*

you don't need a TPS, you can accomplish the same thing using a new(er) procedure based on your MAPdot (basically the amount of change is your MAP reading, IIRC)


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: looking for a 16vt spark map (MidnightGLI)*

Updated Midnights Ignition table on the first page, and included the info about using the MAPdot instead of a TPS. Thanks for the updated Diagram Midnight http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: looking for a 16vt spark map (CrackerX)*

is anybody in here running knock control with their ms? im thinking that i wanna have some sort of knock detection system before i go playing too much with my timing map. I like the looks (and price) of knocksense ms ( http://www.viatrack.ca/) and was wondering if anybody had it, or was running something comprable.
i know there are other solutions out there, there's a wiring diagram or two in the msns -e manual, but id rather not build one myself (dont feel like running around to get all the parts - or trouble shooting it either).
so ya, is anybody running anything like this?
thanks,
drew


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: looking for a 16vt spark map (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_Updated Midnights Ignition table on the first page, and included the info about using the MAPdot instead of a TPS. Thanks for the updated Diagram Midnight http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

damn dude, i haven't read your first post in a while, GREAT info all around! for the love of god lets convince a moderater to make this sticky!! there's digi 1 and digi 2 threads that are sticky that are way less organized and much less helpful.


----------



## s2je77 (Jul 20, 2005)

hi
i just got new injectors (36 lb/hr). so i'm going into the tuning phase all over again (and the problems associated with it too)
1. the idle MAP is in the 50 - 60 kPa range... but when i'm on the throttle just a little bit, it drops down to 30 - 40 kPa, is that normal? cuz i don't remember seeing that the first time...
2. MS is rebooting, and when it reboots, i can hear a relay ticking... so i turned the car off and checked the relays, and they're warm/hot .... am i not using the right relays? is there a specific kinda relay i should use?
there's something else, but i can't remember what it is... so i'll ask it when the problem comes up again
thanks!


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (s2je77)*

That idle kpa seems a tad high to me. Mine idles around 38kpa and I believe the lower the kpa the better when idling. Off of the throttle my kpa will dip to about 18-20 which is kinda low. Ill work more on the decel when im close to done with my ve table. 

-Chris


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: looking for a 16vt spark map*

Both my reg 16v and 16vG60 idled in the 33-34 kpa range.
One ran a Passat 16v TB, other had a Mustang one


----------



## s2je77 (Jul 20, 2005)

i'm using the passat 16V TB too... 
what do you think might be wrong with my idle then?
o, and i just checked my relays, they're 12V 25A, does it mean it's too small and i have to go with ones that support a larger current?


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (s2je77)*

Do you have any vacuum leaks ? I would suspect one of those. How much do you have your tb butter fly cracked open ? 
-Chris


----------



## 16V-Sauger (Aug 9, 2005)

can someone give me a short introduction what mapdot means? i don`t have to use a tps and those 2 switches? so i guess i have to measure the manifold air pressure and the ecu calculates the needed fuel?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (16V-Sauger)*

The TPS is used to signal sudden changes in throttle position, which signals sudden changes in the air supply to the engine. There are enrichment settings associated with the rate-of-change of throttle position. These enrichments compensate and smooth out the engines operation during on or off throttle inputs.
The mapdot does the same thing. MS comes with a map sensor built in. Changes to the throttle position effect the map reading. The mapdot is the rate of change of the map signal and can be used as an indicator of throttle movement. Therefor the enrichment settings used to smooth out engine operation during initial accel/decel can also be associated to a given mapdot.
Make any sense? I hope?


----------



## parasight (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

"what's this I hear about you having problems with your TPS reports?"
"yeah, didnt you get that memo?"
I had my throttle change % (I think that was the name) set waay too high, so I never hit throttle enrichment.
once I got that set to where it was supposed to be, it worked way better.. running pig rich, but that's fixed now


----------



## 16V-Sauger (Aug 9, 2005)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

hmpf








i have to drive with a Alpha/N setup, so the mapdot is not useable for me


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: (16V-Sauger)*

I am a megasquirt newbie and need help. I have an 88 scirocco 16v which is highly modded. I am doing a MS 2.2. I am very confused by what needs to be done. First on my relay, How do I set up the fidle? Do I have the relay provide power or ground? What is the fast idle? Does everything in my engine bay wire to the relay board? I bought the relay to MS harness complete, My understabding is when plugged in nothing else needs to go to the MS ecu. Everything runs to the relay board. PLease Help I am probably going to live in this forum for a while.


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (sciroccoracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciroccoracer* »_I am a megasquirt newbie and need help. I have an 88 scirocco 16v which is highly modded. I am doing a MS 2.2. I am very confused by what needs to be done. First on my relay, How do I set up the fidle? Do I have the relay provide power or ground? What is the fast idle? Does everything in my engine bay wire to the relay board? I bought the relay to MS harness complete, My understabding is when plugged in nothing else needs to go to the MS ecu. Everything runs to the relay board. PLease Help I am probably going to live in this forum for a while.









honestly, this isn't the forum you need to be living in right now... http://www.msefi.com is the forum you need to spend your time in. also VERY IMPORTANT read the megamanual at http://www.megasquirt.info. read it, then understand it, read it again to miss what you didn't understand the first time, read it again and then ask questions. i'm not trying to be an ass, i'm just giving you the tools you need to understand this stuff.


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

Thanks. Ive been on there site for hours already. I will do more


----------



## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: (sciroccoracer)*

Just read all 14 pages







<--my eyes, anyways i'll be jumping into this in the next few months with my 88. Expect a few







and







and







and hopfully a http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif posts from me.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (wantacad)*

Cool, I hope everything works out good! By the time you are done building it, your eyes will definitly be







from all the reading! But when your eyes go







from the increase in drivability and fun you will know it was worth it! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jobimon (May 16, 2004)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

id like to see some more info on the breather setups you guys are running.....maybe some picks?????? and also anyone running the relay board
great thread though, cant stop reading it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (jobimon)*

I put up some pics of my engine bay on the first page. Although its not up to date, you can see the valve cover breather from a 2.0 Beetle. I still use the stock breather with a filter as well. Yes, I know it is kinda ugly, but with both breather setups I have Zero blowby and zero oil mess from the stock breather.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Part Number is : 06A 103 465 ~$20 from the stealer.
And yes I know in those pictures I have the fuel supply line going into the return port on the fuel rail. Lol, I fixed that after I took the friggin pictures.


_Modified by CrackerX at 10:25 AM 12-18-2005_


----------



## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

I'm guessing that's a custom fuel rail you made?


----------



## jobimon (May 16, 2004)

*Re: (wantacad)*

if i want to run an msd box shouldn't i have a wire coming out of pin 36????? i bought a assembled kit and i don't think i got what i paid for......if not then i'm returning it and buying a different one.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (jobimon)*

Yes custom fuel rail made by someone on the Tex. I forget who and I know they didnt have plans to make anymore because they could not get enough orders together.


_Quote, originally posted by *jobimon* »_if i want to run an msd box shouldn't i have a wire coming out of pin 36????? i bought a assembled kit and i don't think i got what i paid for......if not then i'm returning it and buying a different one.

I dont know about the MSD Box, but I do know that the pin or wire you are looking for could possibly be coming out of a different pin. Where did you get the kit from?


----------



## jobimon (May 16, 2004)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

i bought it from garagerival.com..............this is what i have http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW
and he told me that it comes out of the fast idle pin?????


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (jobimon)*

That is a good possibility, the fast idle pin is commonly used for something else. I would read a little bit about megasquirt to help understand the foundation of what you are playing with. With so much reading material out there, it can be hard to find where to start. Try http://www.megasquirt.info/ 
If your questions only cover this one issue then i would believe the fast idle pin answer.


----------



## s2je77 (Jul 20, 2005)

hi
i still have to fuel pump relay resetting problem
i talked to my mechanic about it... and he said a fuel pump relay will do that when there is too much pressure on the fuel pump, which will overload the pump and it's circuits (including the relay) so the relay will tick... 
has any of you have this problem? i'm using a fuel pressure regulator from a 944 and 36# injectors...


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (s2je77)*


_Quote, originally posted by *s2je77* »_hi
i still have to fuel pump relay resetting problem
i talked to my mechanic about it... and he said a fuel pump relay will do that when there is too much pressure on the fuel pump, which will overload the pump and it's circuits (including the relay) so the relay will tick... 
has any of you have this problem? i'm using a fuel pressure regulator from a 944 and 36# injectors...

that sounds pretty bogus to me, id check how youre grounding the relay.
are you having MS run the fuel pump or just having the pump on all the time? i just grounded my fuel pump relay so anytime you power on the MS with the key, it also turns on the fuel pump.


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Hey guys, I just wanted to fill people in on a program called VEXME. I've been using this program a lot lately and its awesome. Its kinda like megatunes autotune feature but better. If you guys haven't used this program yet please give it a try. I got my VE tabled worked out great in just a couple of runs. Let me know how it works out for you guys.

-Chris


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: (Captain16vGTI)*

How did you guys mount your fuel rail? My fuel lines come in on the right side of the engine so I put the fuel supply on the right side. Is this correct?


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (sciroccoracer)*

I pretty much covered the whole ms install in a mk1. Hope this helps http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

-Chris

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2297179


----------



## jobimon (May 16, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

could i get some feedback from people who bought preassembled kits? where from and how was the support? price? thanks in advance


----------



## jobimon (May 16, 2004)

*Re: (jobimon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jobimon* »_i bought it from garagerival.com..............this is what i have http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW
and he told me that it comes out of the fast idle pin?????









this is what i got and i'm on the verge of returning it cause this guy is kind of a jackass........no support from him at all


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (jobimon)*

Even though you bought the pre-assembled kits, your probably going to have to go somewhere else for the support. You can start by reading posts like this one and following the links to other posts on the first page.. Another good place to start is http://www.msefi.com. 
Ill say it this time, read, read, and go back and read some more. The pay off of getting it working is very much worth it!!!


----------



## jobimon (May 16, 2004)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

how do i now what is wired and what isnt.....its not like i don't know what i'm doing.....i've been a master audi teck for about 4 years now and i'm looking at this thing and all this info like..........





























i feel like i just need to be pointed in the right direction










_Modified by jobimon at 5:57 PM 1-1-2006_


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (jobimon)*

jobimon: I am not a big fan of the preassembled kits for that very reason. There is usually some custom tailoring of the board and wiring for each application, which is why I feel it's very important to assemble the kit yourself and develope the understanding behind the modifications. The first place to start is megasquirt.info and msefi.com. megasquirt.info will give you schematics, wiring diagrams and pinouts to let you figure out how your particular MS unit was assembled. The diagrams they make are pretty straightforward. Start there, and write everything down! There is so much information that I got it all jumbled up the first time I put it together. Starting a notebook is one of the biggest things you can do to help yourself. Also, with the V4 board, there are several build options. Did he tell you which options he built the board with? Many of them are unneccesary for our simple VW/Audi installs, which is yet another reason to build your own.
Goodluck!
Edited to add: If for some reason I did decide to buy or recommend someone buy a preassembled MS kit, I'd send them straight to http://www.diyautotune.com or http://www.glensgarage.com/catalog/index.php Both are excellent sites and well respected in the MS community.


_Modified by kalvinlk at 11:56 PM 1-1-2006_


----------



## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

hey guys,
just starting my install and when I go into megasquirt it says megasquirt.cfg -file not found
Im pretty sure I have to change the .ini file but I am unsure if that is a file with megatune or with megasquirt itself


----------



## tallpaul (Oct 3, 2001)

quick question guys,
I have a 2.0l 16v motronic setup. I just finished putting together my megasquirt (V2.2). My question is what would be the easiest way to take care of spark since my motronic setup won't work (according to this thread). the two options i'm considering is going with a cis-e setup for spark or edis. for the cis-e setup i'm not sure what engines i can steal parts from (1.8 16v would work, anything else?). i'm hesitant on the edis because this is my first MS project nd it seems like the less variable the better at the begining. eventually i will do edis or something like it.
i welcome any advice.
paul


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (tallpaul)*

I recommend you get a CIS-E or Digi-II Ignition module and run megasquirt ignition. To get factory CIS-E ignition to work you have to have both the igntion module and knock box hooked up. Hooking that up would be much more difficult than taking the few extra steps for MSnSpark. MidnightGLI's MSnSpark diagram on the first page of this post is not too hard to follow and the vortex community should be able to help you out.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## tallpaul (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

so i would need a cis-e (digi 2) ignition module and the corresponding ignition distributor (i believe it's different than the motronic distributor). which engines could i get a distributor that will work on my 16v? are the 8v dist. compatible?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (tallpaul)*

Yes, a DIGI-II or CIS-E Ignition Module or any Bosch Ignition Module with the 16V motronic distributor should work fine because it is functionally the same as the other 3 wire VW distribs. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif There is a list of other vehicles to source a bosh ignition module from on the megasquirt site.... here : http://www.megasquirt.info/index.html Click the Ignition link on the left hand side and find the Bosch section.


----------



## jobimon (May 16, 2004)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kalvinlk* »_jobimon: I am not a big fan of the preassembled kits for that very reason. There is usually some custom tailoring of the board and wiring for each application, which is why I feel it's very important to assemble the kit yourself and develope the understanding behind the modifications. The first place to start is megasquirt.info and msefi.com. megasquirt.info will give you schematics, wiring diagrams and pinouts to let you figure out how your particular MS unit was assembled. The diagrams they make are pretty straightforward. Start there, and write everything down! There is so much information that I got it all jumbled up the first time I put it together. Starting a notebook is one of the biggest things you can do to help yourself. Also, with the V4 board, there are several build options. Did he tell you which options he built the board with? Many of them are unneccesary for our simple VW/Audi installs, which is yet another reason to build your own.
Goodluck!
Edited to add: If for some reason I did decide to buy or recommend someone buy a preassembled MS kit, I'd send them straight to http://www.diyautotune.com or http://www.glensgarage.com/catalog/index.php Both are excellent sites and well respected in the MS community.

_Modified by kalvinlk at 11:56 PM 1-1-2006_

thanks for the advice.....im waiting for my money back from the ebay guy and after talking to both diy and spark and fuel i think i'm going to go with spark and fuel....i figure as long as i go with someone whos on msefi.com i'm good.
so hopefully soon ill be able to wire this thing up still have lots of other work though as you can see http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...58122


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

The bosch ignition module in most VW's is a smart ignition module that controls dwell. There is a few settings you can set to get around this, but I can't remember what they are off the top of my head, and I never had very good luck with them. I couldn't get my dwell setup correctly. I finally just hit up the junkyard and found some volvos and a saab with the bosch 124 module. I snagged a few spares for $2 a piece (a good thing, I burned a couple of them when figuring out my initial install). After getting everything squared away with the 124, I have not had any dwell problems.
Now things are even easier with the V3 board and it's ignition driver circuit. I wish I had some spare cash to get a new V3 board and new MS2 (i have a beta ms2 with the old code and no way to upgrade) and play around with the ignition driver.


----------



## tallpaul (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kalvinlk* »_...I snagged a few spares for $2 a piece (a good thing, I burned a couple of them when figuring out my initial install). After getting everything squared away with the 124, I have not had any dwell problems...

Do you happen to have any spares you want to sell, i don't have any good european yards around me.
tell me more about the new ms3 ignition driver. I've thought about getting the upgrade board, but i haven't done enough research to understand what benefits it will offer me. does it just take the place of the ignition controller?


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (tallpaul)*

Yes. It has a VB921 high current driver to directly drive the coil so you do not need a Bosch 124 or other similar model. On MSnS-E you can use multiple 921 circuits, either on a seperate daughterboard in your case (V2.2 boards) or on the prototype area of the V3, to drive multiple coils. MSnS-E has the code to drive multiple for a COP or wasted spark setup. MS2 does not have the coding to drive more than one VB921 at the moment (I wish it did, but I don't know C so I have to be patient).
As for any extras, it'll have to wait until this weekend to pull out my ignition box. I also have to grab the multimeter and test a few, because while cleaning the garage the bad ones got thrown in with the good. I'll let you know.


----------



## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

OK....so if i get this 88 gti 1.8 liter 16v, how much is this going to set me back?
i absolutely hate CIS


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (oopseyesharted)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oopseyesharted* »_OK....so if i get this 88 gti 1.8 liter 16v, how much is this going to set me back?
i absolutely hate CIS

your question should be, "how much time, effort, frustration and education am i willing to invest". if thats not what you're looking forward to and just want to get rid of CIS, just do Digifant 1 and never think about it again.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kalvinlk* »_The bosch ignition module in most VW's is a smart ignition module that controls dwell. There is a few settings you can set to get around this, but I can't remember what they are off the top of my head, and I never had very good luck with them. I couldn't get my dwell setup correctly. 

Anyone else have bad luck using the stock VW Ignition modules?


----------



## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_
your question should be, "how much time, effort, frustration and education am i willing to invest". if thats not what you're looking forward to and just want to get rid of CIS, just do Digifant 1 and never think about it again.

You can run digi 1 N/A?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (oopseyesharted)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oopseyesharted* »_You can run digi 1 N/A?

Yes, if interested here is the post http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1305329


----------



## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

awesome ....thanks man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jobimon (May 16, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (oopseyesharted)*

so with the ignition driver you dont need the ignition module at all???????
how about if you are running an msd box would you no longer need that either?????


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (jobimon)*

Using the high current ignition driver, you would not need an ignition module (ignitor) at all. The MSD boxes are just fancy ignitors, and could be eliminated when using the high current ignition driver in conjunction with MS. MSnS-E has more coil driving options. It seems that with their wheel decoder and the code they have implemented to drive all sorts of different coils, you can drive most common setups!
MS2 is getting there, but the code is taking a bit to be implemented. I am just so impatient I might jump back to MSnS-E!


----------



## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (kalvinlk)*

I know there's a good chance of my question being overlooked but figured I'd try here rather than starting a new thread.
First the vehicle specs:
1.8l 16v (unless I find a 9a block for cheap) running ITB's in a '78 rabbit diesel (previous owner commited diesel murder not me) to be used as a weekend/track day/noncompetitive autocross car.
I'd like to ditch ALL OEM electronics and have MS control fuel and spark.
Here's what I've gathered from what I've read (i'm going







from reading all this megasquirt documentation):
_Just looking for conformation on the following)_
-The stock 16v distributor/hall sender will provide the needed input to to MS (4 window)
-With the V3 board I don't need to use a bosch ignition module, I can just connect MS directly to the coil.
-It's easiest to use the GM IAT sensor as MS is already configured for it.
Now, on to my questions:
-Am I correct when I say the V3 board is the latest version of MS? And that MS&S -E is not the same as the V3 board? And MSII is is not a full MS system rather just an add-on to the main MS board? And a V3 board with MSII daughter card is NOT the same as MS&S -E but accomplishes the same thing without requiring an ignition module?
-I keep reading about changing all these jumpers to run this or that but can't seem to figure out which of those apply to the V3 board.
-I'm using GSXR750 ITB's; Can I use the stock TPS that is used on the GSXR? 
-Lastly, would I benefit from lowering the dwell time required by using the MSD 6A ignition setup?
TIA








edited for clarity



_Modified by Nefarious1.8t at 11:26 AM 1-18-2006_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Nefarious1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nefarious1.8t* »_
-The stock 16v distributor/hall sender will provide the needed input to to MS (4 window)
-With the V3 board I don't need to use a bosch ignition module, I can just connect MS directly to the coil.
-It's easiest to use the GM IAT sensor as MS is already configured for it.


Yes, yes, and yes but using VW Sensors is seriously not hard with the EzTherm program. You just have to read and follow the instructions on where to put the files. The files also must be included for the megatune program. A lot of people seem to overlook that.

_Quote, originally posted by *Nefarious1.8t* »_
Now, on to my questions:
-Am I correct when I say the V3 board is the latest version of MS? And that MS&S -E is not the same as the V3 board? And MSII is is not a full MS system rather just an add-on to the main MS board? And a V3 board with MSII daughter card is NOT the same as MS&S -E but accomplishes the same thing without requiring an ignition module?
-I keep reading about changing all these jumpers to run this or that but can't seem to figure out which of those apply to the V3 board.
-I'm using GSXR750 ITB's; Can I use the stock TPS that is used on the GSXR? 
-Lastly, would I benefit from lowering the dwell time required by using the MSD 6A ignition setup?


V3 (Circuit Board Version 3) is the lastest version. The MSII daughter card is an upgrade to ALL MS Board versions enabling increased capabilities similar to the MSnS -E Code. However, the MSnS -E code has not yet been adapted to run on the MSII daughter card.
The V3 board has the spark option built in making the MSnS- E code implementation supposedly easier. Less or no ignition circuit adaptation is required for a V3 board to run ignition with a VW 4 window distributor and stock coil. 
All the jumper moving and circuit modifying is in reference to a V2.2 board unless the V3 board is directly specified.
The stock TPS will work fine. The TPS is calibrated using the MegaTune program and it is VERY easy to calibrate.
I dont know about an MSD 6a ignition setup, but I know hooking up MSnS -E code to run spark is fairly easy especially with the V3 boards built in ignition module. Other opinions? 
OH and I would just get a V3 board and run MSnS -E code with it. The MSII is cool, but I think I would wait a few years for Ultra Megasquirt to come out. (if it ever does!!) What they are trying to accomplish with Ultra is incredibly complex.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kalvinlk* »_Yes. It has a VB921 high current driver to directly drive the coil so you do not need a Bosch 124 or other similar model. On MSnS-E you can use multiple 921 circuits, either on a seperate daughterboard in your case (V2.2 boards) or on the prototype area of the V3, to drive multiple coils. MSnS-E has the code to drive multiple for a COP or wasted spark setup. MS2 does not have the coding to drive more than one VB921 at the moment (I wish it did, but I don't know C so I have to be patient).
As for any extras, it'll have to wait until this weekend to pull out my ignition box. I also have to grab the multimeter and test a few, because while cleaning the garage the bad ones got thrown in with the good. I'll let you know.

124 is a Bosch dumb module that needs dwell controlled isn't it?


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

Correct, MSnS-E and MSII can control it no problem. Much easier than trying to figure out the correct settings on the original VW ignitor (most people don't have a scope available to figure this out).


----------



## Sucka (Apr 12, 2004)

i have a quick question for all of you cats out there, i some how lost my throttle sender clip in piece for my MS wiring harness, i was wonder where i can get a new one or what car can i get it from?


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (Sucka)*

Hey guys, This isn't a ms specific question but im kinda stumbled and was wondering if you guys have have some ideas to point me in the right direction. Recently my 16v rabbit running MSnS -E on my V3 board started having weird power problems. When I start it up it idles really lean and goes back to normal once I rev it for awhile to get it warm. Also when I turn my head lights on it starts to idle very rough and goes lean until I turn them off. Same thing happens when my fan turns on. 
My car has been running good up until recently. I swapped out all my power and grounds for 4g power cable because I thought the old shot ones might be doing this. After that it still does it but not as much. I checked the alt and it seems to be putting out 13.8. The battery is also fully charged. This is driving me nuts. Thanks in advance guys.
-Chris
EDIT.. I should also note that my o2 correction is off for tuning so that cancels out the possibility of the o2 having something to do with it. 


_Modified by Captain16vGTI at 11:21 AM 1-27-2006_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (Captain16vGTI)*

Sounds to me like a possible Power/ground/feedback/cold solder joint issue. I ran the power and ground for MS directly to the battery. Also, try resoldering the power connections to the megasquirt. HTH.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (Sucka)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sucka* »_i have a quick question for all of you cats out there, i some how lost my throttle sender clip in piece for my MS wiring harness, i was wonder where i can get a new one or what car can i get it from?

Is that a unique connector? IIRC thats a standard 3 pin style connection plug. I dont know the type/style name, but almost any VW should have a 3 pin plug you can snag....
I hope thats what you were asking for...


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

I talked to a buddy of mine today and he said that it might be the alt belt being to loose. I went outside and sure enough the alt pulley could be spun without the belt moving. That would make sense as to why it somewhat goes away when the car warms up. 
I think that the belt might warm up and start catching. At the moment I don't have a alt belt tensioner on it because the alt was hitting my 8v radiator. So I moved the alt down a bit on the same bracket and got a smaller belt. Ill let you guys know if that was the problem.
-Chris


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_Is that a unique connector? IIRC thats a standard 3 pin style connection plug. I dont know the type/style name

Bosch Junior Power Timer connector http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (martyn_16v)*

Well the I tightened the belt up and the car still runs horrible when the head lights or fan are on. If I adjust the a/f ratio to about 13ish at idle those accessories don't seems to bother the engine as much. Im wondering if I should run the relay board power straight off of the battery. I have it hooked up to the ignition switch right now. Any other ideas guys ?
-Chris


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (Captain16vGTI)*

Hook it up straight off the battery http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Fused of course


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

I am trying to find pictures of EDIS trigger wheel mounts. Who's got em? I designed a new 36-1 wheel and am deciding on how to attach it to my pulley. The problem I have run into is the waterpump drive pulley that is stacked onto the crank pulley. I think I need to cut another secondary spacer that sits inside the recessed pulley, so I have a flush mounting surface to bolt the 36 tooth wheel on. I don't want to "clamp" the waterpump drive pulley between the wheel and the crank pulley, hence the spacer. I would get the spacer made out of aluminum to save weight.
Any suggestions? I am getting these lasercut for free, and the goal is to design it to bolt straight on with no welding.


----------



## Rusty Shackelford (Jan 3, 2004)

*Re:*

I still can't figure out why this isn't a sticky... 
bump


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: Re: (Rusty Shackelford)*

i've tried communicating with the admins for them to sticky it. but they say "only threads that get sticky are the ones created by admins" i think they are taking the fact that VW was started by Hitler a little too far...


----------



## Rusty Shackelford (Jan 3, 2004)

*Re: Re: (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_but they say "only threads that get sticky are the ones created by admins"

Digi1 - digi2 sticky threads look to have been created by mere mortals.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Rusty Shackelford)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rusty Shackelford* »_Digi1 - digi2 sticky threads look to have been created by mere mortals.

And are still hard to understand, and total crapshoots when it comes to tech info. "Well it might be this, but it could be that, talk to SNS".


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## MBRACKLIFFE (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_And are still hard to understand, and total crapshoots when it comes to tech info. 


Hey now, I worked very hard to write the Digi2 16v FAQ. As an engineer I certainly do not pretend to be a writer but I certainly thought I did a thorough writeup.
On the other hand I just finished the assembly of my MSII V3 Board and I am looking forward to some warm weather in order to get it in the car.








Don't tell the Digi2 16v crowd...








Anyways the way my FAQ ended up getting made into a sticky was like this. I guess alot of people had sent messages to the admin's requesting that it be made a sticky. They pretty much told us the same thing they told you. However after some one on one talk with one of the admins (anthony) he agreed to create an empty Digi2 FAQ sticky post and then basically cut and pasted my FAQ into it. 
So as you can see in order for them to make a post a sticky it physically has to be created by an admin. Atleast that is the way I understood it.
Also I believe I had to go through the whole FAQ and consolidate all of the info into one post which is the first one you see when you open it because all of the replies and such were lost when it was moved.
Seeing how this FAQ has become extremely bloated and long and difficult to read through I would imagine that the same thing would have to be done. I know I certainly had trouble reading through the entire thing.
Anyways just thought I would chime in. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Re: (MBRACKLIFFE)*

I would love to do a consolidation to make it easier for everyone.... but here is the deal. I can make some pretty crazy web pages and I want to make that post into a nice Flash or java script page with links to msq files, VE Tables, blue-prints, 16V VW FAQ's, install pictures, anecdotes for each portion of the build, *BUT* I dont have much spare time to do that. 
Modifying this post is probably easier. I can organize it into sections; each section having the same template. Well crap... I might as well start doing that and compiling it together. THEN maybe they will make it a sticky


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: Re: (MBRACKLIFFE)*

Sorry, I was refering to the Digi I FAQ, which is useful, but kinda hard to read.


----------



## MBRACKLIFFE (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: (KingofNod)*

Now that my megasquirt is done I have a question in terms of throttle body selection.
I know that I can use the auto Passat but I was looking into using a mk3 single butterfly TB from a 2.0 8v or even trying to use a VR6 TB which is also single butterfly. I have a CNC machine at my disposal so making the adapter would not be hard. They both have TPS on them.
Has anyone done this ?? I would like your opinion on driveability.
I have done some experimenting with my current throttle body which is a two butterfly TB and is also a progressive TB so the small one opens before the large one. In some tests I have found that by tying the two butterflies together to make them open like a single butterfly ie: at the same time I get massive amounts of torque down low.
However the driveability is greatly reduced since the car wants to eat clutches now. I am curious if the single butterfly TB would have the same issues.??


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Re: (MBRACKLIFFE)*

I would say get the biggest TB you can get... VR6 single butterfly is bigger I think and will net you more top end power, but probably reduce low end torque.
The faster the air flowing through the intake ports, the more torque you have. The amount of air is also important, but being able to flow the correct amount of air as fast as possible will net the most torque. 
Opening any throttle body wide open may slow down the air at the ports because the restriction that creates the pressure difference is now limited to the intake port itself. That means air velocity will be slow until it gets to the intake port. A partially opened dual butterfly system may be able to restrict airflow enough to raise air velocity up while still flowing enough air to raise torque numbers. However at high rpm the dual butterfly setup probably restricts air flow more than a single setup.
That whole shpeal is basically why cars have variable sized intake systems... At low RPM the air flow velocity is kept up, and at high RPM the system opens up to not restrict airflow at top end.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kalvinlk* »_
Any suggestions? I am getting these lasercut for free, and the goal is to design it to bolt straight on with no welding.


I think thats the same problem as putting a serpentine setup on the 16V am I correct?? You have to either space the pulley or shave the crank pulley some to make the serpentine pulley fit. 
Would it be possible to shave the crank pulley?


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Re: (MBRACKLIFFE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MBRACKLIFFE* »_Now that my megasquirt is done I have a question in terms of throttle body selection.
I know that I can use the auto Passat but I was looking into using a mk3 single butterfly TB from a 2.0 8v or even trying to use a VR6 TB which is also single butterfly. I have a CNC machine at my disposal so making the adapter would not be hard. They both have TPS on them.
Has anyone done this ?? I would like your opinion on driveability.
I have done some experimenting with my current throttle body which is a two butterfly TB and is also a progressive TB so the small one opens before the large one. In some tests I have found that by tying the two butterflies together to make them open like a single butterfly ie: at the same time I get massive amounts of torque down low.
However the driveability is greatly reduced since the car wants to eat clutches now. I am curious if the single butterfly TB would have the same issues.??

Corky Bell's book Maximum boost has a formula for calculating the right TB size.


----------



## MBRACKLIFFE (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: (OttawaG60)*

So has anyone actually used a mk3 8v or VR6 throttle body with megasqurt on the 16v..?? 
I would like to know how it worked out.??


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: Re: (MBRACKLIFFE)*

I thought about using the MKIII TB. BUt decided that I will give the Passat Auto TB a try first. If for any reason I don't like the way it feels, I'll look into other things.
I still don't have my megasquirt running though. I'll be sending my ECU in for repairs.








The Cabby is in garage mode right now.


----------



## MBRACKLIFFE (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

I am debating on whether or not to implement the spark control with my MsII on the initial install.??
Any recomendations..?
I was leaning towards controlling just fuel and hooking into the stock ignition but I almost don't even want to bother with the stock ignition I would rather just remove everything and start fresh but I do not want to jump in over my head.
So let me know what you think...
Fuel and Full Spark control or just Fuel.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Re: (MBRACKLIFFE)*

I would say do fuel and spark if it is a V3 board, and if its a V2.2 board just do fuel. The V3 board looks much easier to hook up as far as spark goes because of the built in ignition module http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I believe there is a link to a post on the first page that contains information on the V3 ignition install.


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: Re: (GTIMan82)*

i gots a quick question about warmup enrichment and such:
do yall actually have gas mileage while you're warming up?
my car refuses to run well outside of maybe an 11.0-13.0:1 afr when the motor's cold. consequently, while im warming up it guzzles tons and tons of gas. ive tried bringing it up to 14, but it gets mad and bucks and the like. anybody have these issues? maybe i just need to finess my warmups a bit. its not a big deal, i just dont like using up all that gas. thought id ask http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: (NJRrado)*

mine isnt all that well tuned (the warmup map) so it likes it super rich, and sometimes dies when its too cold out for the first 30 seconds or so.
my buddies rabbit stays right around stoich during warmup though...its just a matter of tweaking the warmup table enough


----------



## MBRACKLIFFE (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Ive got a few more questions for you all.... They may have been answered earlier but I cant remember from when I read it.
Anyone used the stock ISV if so how did you set it up. I was going to keep the ISV since I plan on keeping my AC..? 
Has anyone run MSII V3 without the TPS ..?? advisable or no..? 
Wideband O2 sensor... I have been looking at the innovate LC1 due its inexpensive price compared to the others... any experiece with this sensor..? 
I am planning on buying new injector's since my Digi2 injector's are 14 years old should I buy them again or move on to something else..? Suggestions ?


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: Re: (MBRACKLIFFE)*

i was thinking about getting the innovate lc-1, but stumbled on a good deal on a practically new lm-1 so go that instead. innovate makes a nice product. i think the lc-1 would be perfect for ms. its small, has two outputs (you could send one to megasquirt and one to an in dash afr guage if you want real time feedback), and has most all the functions of the lm-1 without the giant gameboy looking plastic box.
oh, i tried to setup accel enrichments on my v2.2 without using the tps and that was a giant pain in the ass. maybe im a little slow or something, but i thought setting up accel enrichments using tps (v/s) was waaaaaayyyy easier then using the map settings (kpa/s). id go with a tps if you can.


_Modified by NJRrado at 10:51 AM 2-11-2006_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Re: (MBRACKLIFFE)*

Wideband- I have had good luck with the AEM UEGO single channel controller.
$377-> -- >http://www.coximport.com/store/30-2301 This is the controller, sensor, and both a 0-5v and 0-1v output but no gauge. 
$280-> http://www.rpmoutlet.com/aemgauge.htm This one is a 6 syle gauge kit that comes with the sensor. The gauge has the wideband controller built in and also has the 0-5V output for the engine mangement system.
Injectors: 
Move on to something else! The digi II's only fuel so much... I would get some bigger ones... 36-48lb from [email protected]
Depending on what your future plans are.


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (Captain16vGTI)*

Captain: here are my MS2 settings for my beta MS2 board. The settings on your version MS2 may be slightly different, but this should get you somewhere in the right direction.


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

Alright guys, I just got my 16v fired up using my v3 board to control spark. Im gonna try to make this a very detailed write up covering the whole process. Before I go on any further id like to say thanks to Dave (cdndub) and Calvin (kalvinlk) for all the help. This write up is based off of Dave's original write up but it will include a couple of things that were left out along with pictures. Thanks again guys.
First off, I purchased my v3 board already assembled because I didn't have the time to build it myself. Because of this I was kinda left out on the basic internals of ms. I read and asked a bunch of questions and eventually understood everything (well mostly everything







).
This pictures is good to use to get a basic idea of where things are located on the v3 board. 








With all that said I will now get on to the procedures that need to be made to make this thing control spark. 
First things first. TACHSELECT should be jumperd to OPTOIN. If its not please do so. 
2. After that you will need to solder a jumper wire to the previous jumper and run it over to the +5 pad above the proto area. You can see the +5 pad on the top side of the pcb. Like Dave said, This will give you 5v to power the hall. (cleaner signal)
3. Next you will have to cut the jumper between XG1 and XG2 if there is already one installed. After that you will need to run a jumper wire from XG1 and IAC-1A. This is the input for the tach signal from the dizzy.
4. If not already done you will have to jumper TSEL to OPTOOUT. 
5. This step pretty much depends on which firmware you are running on your v3 board. Basically this step is where you send a signal to the IGBT (onboard ignition driver) to let it know when to fire. On the v3 board the input is labeled IGBTIN. The output to this is what varies depending on what code you are using. The default output for the standard ms2 code is JS10 (ign). If you are using the standard ms2 code then run a jumper from IGBTIN to JS10. 
I on the other hand am still using the ms1 processor but running it with MSnS -E so I can control spark. If your running MSnS like I am then the default output is one of the led's. In this case you will have to run a jumper from IGBTIN to the top of R26 with a 330ohm 1/4 watt resister inline. You will be able to see R26 from the top of the pcb board. You can also refer to the pcb picture posted above. The reason you don't want to use JS10 with MSnS is because JS10 is a input for knock control. Check out the pictures below.
















6. Next jumper IGBTOUT to IGN if not already jumperd. This is the output to the coil (pulsed ground).
Now that all the internal mods have been performed we will move onto the wiring. Your basic hall sensor will have three wires. The three wires consist of a ground, power and signal. In almost all cases the middle wire is the signal wire. This wire will be ran to pin 25 or pin S1 on the relay board. 
Next is the ground wire. This wire will most likely be brown/white or just brown. You want to find a good grounding point for this wire. The last of the hall wires is the power wire. This wire should be red/black. The power wire will be ran to pin 24 or the TACH pin on the relay board. Finally its time for the coil wire. 
All you need to do is run a wire from pin 36 or S5 (relay board) to the negative side of the coil. This wire is a pulsed ground and will tell your coil when to fire. That's pretty much it guys. You've just moded your v3 board to control spark. If anyone wants to add to this or ask any questions please feel free. 

















-Chris


_Modified by Captain16vGTI at 1:19 AM 5-12-2006_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (Captain16vGTI)*

Awesome! I am going to be putting together about 3-4 V3 boards really soon so great! Would you mind if I posted up this on the first megasquirt page? I am in the process of redoing it anyways.
Also, anyone willing to email me their most recent 12x12 spark and VE tables?


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Yes please do. If you need to change anything around or add anything please do so http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Chris


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

i'll send a conservative spark map for a boosted 16v if you want it. my ve table isnt all that great, so i dont think theres much use posting it.
ive asked this before, but anybody care to share what spark advance they're running at high map/rpm values? say like 210kpa, 7krpm or thereabouts. im running about 17* advance there, and feel i have a little ways to go, but dont want to push it as i dont have access to a dyno or knock detection right now. 
edit: weeeeeee... page 17


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

Hey guys, one question...
For fiddle valve, can we use a DIGI ISV and just have it turn on with low engine temps, and off when not needed? Or do I really have to get the Bosch Fast Idle valve...?
Fiddle wire from relay board is it a voltage signal or a ground? 
Sorry guys I can't test, because I don't have my MS back from the repair shop yet... I'm trying to finish up my wiring...


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (NJRrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NJRrado* »_i'll send a conservative spark map for a boosted 16v if you want it. my ve table isnt all that great, so i dont think theres much use posting it.
ive asked this before, but anybody care to share what spark advance they're running at high map/rpm values? say like 210kpa, 7krpm or thereabouts. im running about 17* advance there, and feel i have a little ways to go, but dont want to push it as i dont have access to a dyno or knock detection right now. 
edit: weeeeeee... page 17

I just checked my dyno datalogs from last year, 180ish kpa, 24 deg total timing.


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

thanks! just out of curiosity, what compression ratio are you running with that g60? 8:1 or 9:1?


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

16vG60 with a pair of ABA head gaskets, I'm guessing mid to high 9's.
Lemme go to notsofast and work it out


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

9.6:1


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

thanks for the info jerome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
anybody notice that boostfactory's 034 thread just became a sticky? hmm...


----------



## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (NJRrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NJRrado* »_anybody notice that boostfactory's 034 thread just became a sticky? hmm...









Could have something to do with the fact that he's a forum sponsor?


----------



## Rusty Shackelford (Jan 3, 2004)

Well, as long as this thread isn't blackholed, It's still a great tool. I just got the last bit of my project delivered and I'm going to start soldering tonight. I'll be running V3 for spark and fuel, fine tuning it with an LM1.







Thanks to everyone who posted up info.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (martyn_16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *martyn_16v* »_Could have something to do with the fact that he's a forum sponsor?









Yea, sponsors typically have more pull than us members... but I wonder how much a $5.25 donation by me could help the cause. 
Im actually kind of glad they posted that sticky. They have standalone goodies like air temp sensors and that LC-1 wideband setup is a seriously good price. Im going to be buying a lot of stuff from them when I put together the 3-4 V3 boards...








I updated the first page a bit, but Im not done. There is a lot of settings discussion in the thread as well as a few other things I want to summarize.


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 4:56 PM 2-26-2006_


----------



## PintSized (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*









Had to get this one back on top http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (NJRrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NJRrado* »_anybody notice that boostfactory's 034 thread just became a sticky? hmm...









Paul Calado & myself are the 16V forum sponsours.Expect to see various threads stickied in the future from :
* 500whp on the cheap
to Turbocharger & general FI performance parts.

_Quote, originally posted by *Rusty Shackelford* »_Well, as long as this thread isn't blackholed, It's still a great tool.

Why would I have an informative thread black holed?Nope sorry...not this Forum Sponsour regardless if it conflicts with 034.I am better than that...








Megasquirt users still buy products from 034's website such as VR sensor brackets,etc.
Lots of info shairing to come shortly.


----------



## Rusty Shackelford (Jan 3, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

uh... didn't say it was going to be blackholed, just that it's a valuable thread as long as it's still available, even if it isn't sticky. That being said...
I just built my V3 board last week and i've already gotten a wealth of info in here. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Rusty Shackelford)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rusty Shackelford* »_ just that it's a valuable thread as long as it's still available, even if it isn't sticky.

certainly is a valueable thread and it should always remain available unless something goes wrong.I allready asked to make it a sticky and the administrators said no because it was not created by a moderator or administrator.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Why would I have an informative thread black holed?Nope sorry...not this Forum Sponsour regardless if it conflicts with 034.I am better than that... 
Megasquirt users still buy products from 034's website such as VR sensor brackets,etc.
Lots of info shairing to come shortly. 

There are a lot of people who want/*need* a standalone engine mangagement system. It is the age old exchange system of time for money. Want standalone tomorrow? Pay for 034EFI. Dont want to pay that much? How much time you got? Causes your gonna have to spend it setting up megasquirt and reading posts like this one http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . 
The purpose of this post as well as many others is to decrease the time it takes setting up megasquirt and to help answer most of the questions the VW 16V community faces. Im glad that Issam supports it!
And just to let you know Issam I added your post to the first page of this post as a good source for parts. Also, I ordered a few things from yall yesterday


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (Rusty Shackelford)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rusty Shackelford* »_uh... didn't say it was going to be blackholed, just that it's a valuable thread as long as it's still available, even if it isn't sticky. That being said...
I just built my V3 board last week and i've already gotten a wealth of info in here. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Glad this post has helped and that V3 board looks good!!! Nice logo! I just ordered one yesterday to put together for my friends attempted DIGI-II conversion Jetta. Apparently, he was still upset that my stock 2.0L with MS could whip his 2.0L with cams, headers, and other mods







He finally caved


----------



## MBRACKLIFFE (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Just got my passat throttle body with TPS, Quick question:
I have two plugs on my tps, one on the actual plastic housing and one coming off of it on a wire. Both are 3 terminal plugs. What is the difference ?
Also is there a place to buy the Bosch connectors that fit the 3 prong plug..?
One last thing my TB has an idle screw which I have read the auto Passats are not supposed to have. I am glad it does but did different years have it and others not or is it not a passat TB..?


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

is it possible to use megasquirt to replace the Motronic ECU but still run the mechanical injection system?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OhioBenz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OhioBenz* »_is it possible to use megasquirt to replace the Motronic ECU but still run the mechanical injection system?

Yes it is. However, I personaly dont want to develop the code to run it! You would have to tell the megasquirt system how to interpret all the motronic engine controls/sensors and then tell it what to do. It would boil down to controlling the idle valve and DPR. 
Another option would be to use the megasquirt to run the Ignition and somehow feed motronic the RPM input it needs... 
Hang on... why not just run megasquirt??









_Quote, originally posted by *MBRACKLIFFE* »_
I have two plugs on my tps, one on the actual plastic housing and one coming off of it on a wire. Both are 3 terminal plugs. What is the difference ?


The TPS is for the automatic trans, but motronic still needs the idle position and full throttle position inputs so the passat TB has both. The one coming off on the wire should be the idle and full throttle position switch http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Dont know where to get the connectors, I just cut a bunch at a junkyard and spliced them in.

_Quote, originally posted by *MBRACKLIFFE* »_
One last thing my TB has an idle screw which I have read the auto Passats are not supposed to have. I am glad it does but did different years have it and others not or is it not a passat TB..?

I am thinking it must have come on some years and not others. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for having it though


----------



## MBRACKLIFFE (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

Ok That makes sense for the idle and WOT switches I wasn't sure... 
Which terminal on the TPS goes where for megasquirt..?


_Modified by MBRACKLIFFE at 3:06 PM 3-2-2006_


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_
Yes it is. However, I personaly dont want to develop the code to run it! You would have to tell the megasquirt system how to interpret all the motronic engine controls/sensors and then tell it what to do. It would boil down to controlling the idle valve and DPR. 
Another option would be to use the megasquirt to run the Ignition and somehow feed motronic the RPM input it needs... 
Hang on... why not just run megasquirt??









Yeah, I have all the stuff except an fpr to do the conversion now to full msns. its my daily driver so i didnt realy want to spend so much downtime....does anyone have a stock 2.0-16v map for non-turbo?
i got the Passat TB sitting in my intake pile so thats all no trouble. will have to read up what all else i need. would like to put a kit together rather than buy a premade one too....


----------



## MBRACKLIFFE (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OhioBenz)*

Found this site that carries a good amount of the various Bosch electrical connector's. Too bad they are stupidly expensive but I guess if you really wanted them. http://www.eagleday.com/ampconnectors.html


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OhioBenz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OhioBenz* »_does anyone have a stock 2.0-16v map for non-turbo?
.

There is a link to an 8x8 map on the first page of this post. I think there is a conversion tool to a 12x12 if you are running the MSnS -extra code with 12x12 tables


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

Anybody using OttawaG60's Msns-E with fiddle conversion with a relay board? I'm currently having some wiring issues... Need to know if maybe the relay board is at fault... Perhaps it needs modifying...
Thanks,


----------



## flanders (Apr 5, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdn20VALVE* »_Anybody using OttawaG60's Msns-E with fiddle conversion with a relay board? I'm currently having some wiring issues... Need to know if maybe the relay board is at fault... Perhaps it needs modifying...
Thanks,

yeeeesssss? I built it








what are you trying to do? Is your Fidle not working?


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (flanders)*

Flanders, how much to fly you to toronto?








Seriously. I'm just trying to get my MS not to fry the main chip when I turn on ignition. 
Symptom: all three led's turned on when I turned ignition on, and the main MS chip got fried.
The same thing happenned when I used a non-modified stim, I fried the main chip on the MS board.
My MS works perfect with the modded stim.


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (flanders)*

[email protected] - hey, sorry to get on ya about the add stuff. i kinda forgot what forum i was in







as far as im concerned, the 16v forum needs as many sponsors as it can get http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
at the time i was generally pissed because i tend to see tons and tons and tons of "sale" thread from forum advertisers bumped for days on end in the corrado forum. they take up a lot of space in the discussion forum, when there is already a corrado classefieds forum that they could possibly have stikies in or something. either way this isnt the place for this discussion. sorry guys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## flanders (Apr 5, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdn20VALVE* »_Flanders, how much to fly you to toronto?








Seriously. I'm just trying to get my MS not to fry the main chip when I turn on ignition. 
Symptom: all three led's turned on when I turned ignition on, and the main MS chip got fried.
The same thing happenned when I used a non-modified stim, I fried the main chip on the MS board.
My MS works perfect with the modded stim.

Have you tried buzzing out the relay board when you turn the ignition? (ie. leave MS unplugged from it). You should be able to verify that if it's an 'input' to the relay board (output from MS) then there shouldn't be 12V driving it. 
Without seeing you're board, I'd guess you've got the relay board pushing 12V into a signal that the MS is supposed to using as an output, which could pooch it...


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (NJRrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NJRrado* »_
at the time i was generally pissed because i tend to see tons and tons and tons of "sale" thread from forum advertisers bumped for days on end in the corrado forum.

Totally understand where you are coming from because I myself am a regular user (wizard-of-od) and I tend to dislike insane bumping of products I can get anywhere.
Whatever the case if there is anything I can do to help you guys out with Megasquirt hardware development just drop me a line and Ill see how fast I can design it and get it to a machine shop.


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Whatever the case if there is anything I can do to help you guys out with Megasquirt hardware development just drop me a line and Ill see how fast I can design it and get it to a machine shop.









An affordable 16v 36-1 trigger wheel setup http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

-Chris


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Captain16vGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Captain16vGTI* »_An affordable 16v 36-1 trigger wheel setup http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Chris


The Megasquirt cant work with a 60-2?


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! ([email protected])*

Here is what I have been working on today... Spark output on LED17 as per OttawaG60's post on MSnS fiddle conversion http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2278613
Can anyone tell me if there is any problems here? I do have one question about the relay needed for the ** fuel pump/ignition module connection. How would I wire that up exactly... what wires where on the relay, and is a regular 30a 4 pin relay sufficient?


----------



## bunnyluv (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

It looks like he has it hooked up like this:








However, the disclaimer at the bottom left corner of that .jpeg schematic says - "This connection was recommended online so as to not have power going to coil at all times when key is in the "on" position. Control module will only recieve power when fuel relay is switched on."
You wouldn't need to add that relay to achieve that result. Either way, the fuel pump/oxygen sensor heater/coil/ignition control will all turn on with the fuel pump. The fuel pump relay clicks on once it recieves a signal from the tach input circuit (in this case the hall sender input to MS). Two seconds after MS stops seeing a tach signal, the fuel pump relay turns off.
Adding that control module/coil relay would just end up reducing the load on the fuel pump relay. It would work either way though. 
Edit: Might be too much of a load to run all of those accessories off of only the fuel pump relay. Probably a good idea to use the extra relay.












_Modified by bunnyluv at 4:09 PM 3-6-2006_


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! ([email protected])*

It can, just depends on what you want to do. MSnSe will decode many many different wheels, and use that to fire lots of different ouputs, COP, wasted spark etc.
MS2 is less feature rich, but the features are coming out steadily and will surpase MSnSe. There is now a wheel decoder to decode most missing tooth setups, BUT you can't fire an EDIS module with a 60-2, or drive a wasted spark setup directly. I am waiting for the code to fire a wasted spark coil using two ignition driver circuits, triggered off the 60-2 tooth on the ABA crank/block. Shouldn't be too far along, and my new scirocco should keep me busy for a while until the code is out.


----------



## qbngolf (Sep 22, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (kalvinlk)*

so i have my v3 board wired up like on page 28 of this link http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...ge=28 and when i turn the ignition key to on vb921 turns hot real quick, i have a 3 wire ignition module it is on an obd2 2.0 aba 8v. first i tried wiring the trigger wire to the middle wire on the coil harness, my problem was getting the car to stay running at idle. it did idle nicely but then out of nowhere it would die. so then what i did was i cut the ignition module off of the coil and i wired one terminal to the fuel pump positive and the other terminal to the megasquirt and then i turned on the ignition and vb921 got really hot. i dont understand whats going on. i guess my question would be do any of you guys have a similar coil and if so what have you done? any help would be greatly appreciated


_Modified by qbngolf at 6:58 PM 3-7-2006_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (qbngolf)*

Im putting a V3 board together right now... so I might be able to help you in a few days. I will try to keep your post in mind.


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

I`ve spent the last month trying to nail the idle using an ISV, nearly there!
Using the 029 idle code as a base, re-wrote most of it and added a timing table based on idlerpm that activates under idle conditions.
Don`t know if it`s just mine with the Kent`s and power streering but geting a rock solid 1000 rpm idle isnt easy!


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (KeithMac)*

Is the Megamanual hosted anywhere else? None of the megasquirt.info pages work.


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (KingofNod)*

http://www.megasquirt.info/v22manual/mtabcon.htm
Any use?


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (KeithMac)*

Thanks a lot! For some reason all of the links to anything on megasquirt.info were giving me "could not be found" messages.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (KingofNod)*

Hey Guys. I finally got my MS running! Working very well. I drove the car into work this morning. 
My only real problem, she's really hard to start when cold!!! Like below freezing point -2'C cold. I have to fix my prime table. More tuning to be done tonight.
Anyone have a good VE table and prime table for the N/A 2.0L 16v with DIGI II injectors?
And could anyone please share there cold start settings with me? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

You can adapt the ones I have posted on the front of this post to the new version of megatune, they are from my stock 2.0L with digi II injectors. Thats the best I can do for ya. Glad to hear you got it running http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

Yes, I saw those. And I will impliment them. But I can't read the numbers on the dark blue section of the VE table...


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

http://members.cox.net/cracker...t.vex That is link to the 8x8 table that may or may not load into the latest version of megatune. If you cant get it to load up, I can load it and post the values up here.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

congrats lovre, i was looking at some VE tables online and had a laugh... an aircooled dub's ve table is from 30 - 50 even at peak







talk about efficient!


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*

Yeah I'm pretty stoked. I just don't think I'll get her started here in the work parking lot (Below 0'c). I have a feeling the cold start is gonna give me a hard time. I'll let you guys know what happens.








I don't have amy laptop with me either, not tha tit would help though, as my laptop battery is inoperative. I can no longer charge it as of Sunday.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

Made it home. It was a pain to get her started, but once I got home I started tuning some more...
Got all the bugs worked out. Now she starts no problem, filddle valve working and everything. It is -1'C here right now, and she starts up great! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

No start this morning. -3'C. More tuning to do tonight. Except that my 3 month old rebuilt starter also just crapped out. I didn't even crank for that long. less than 4 seconds. Solenoid gave out.,
Some of you guys have gotten her started down to -30'c, is that correct?


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdn20VALVE* »_
Some of you guys have gotten her started down to -30'c, is that correct?

I drove my MS'd 16v through a winter in Ottawa, started up every day.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OttawaG60)*

Mind sharing any of yoru settings with us?
Trigger or time based ignition...?
etc thanks.


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

This is what I use.. Started at -7 ok. ISV`s at 50hz cold and 25hz hot while cranking.

Priming ms
12.5
11
11
9
9
7
5.5
4
3.5
3
ASE %
40
40
40
40
35
30
30
20
10
5
Warmup Enrich %
180
180
180
170
145
130
120
110
100
100


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (KeithMac)*

Just ordered a Megasquirt II V3 ECU w/ 3bar map for a friends MR2 Turbo from Glens Garage. The MR2 will be getting traction control, KnockSense, switchable rev limit, and a bunch of other extra features. Hopefully I can help someone apply all those features to a 16V running MS-II. The MS-II code does not have all those features setup yet, but I am a programmer maybe this will force me to actually look at the code
The MS-II V3 kits are not supposed to be in stock until 3/20/06 but I went ahead and ordered one. Glens Garage rocks... I really like the way they packed the MS I ECU V3 kit i just got... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Paying the little bit of extra money is way worth it.


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

what was the price?


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

Anyone here tap their 16v head for a GM CLT sensor?
I'm thinking of doing this as it make for the cleanest look. I'm just afraid to ruin a perfectly good head. The GM sensor has a way bigger tread!!! I'm afraid there will not be enough clearance...
To the guys that have done this... which port did you guys tap?


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

Your probably gonna need one of these.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2216529


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (Captain16vGTI)*

I was thinking about goign that route as well. I actually bought a fitting that fits right in the slot. But I need the side flange with the one port. If I can pick one up from my parts suppler this evening.
However, In my hand I'm holdng a 3/8 NPT tap tool.
Decisions, decisions...


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

http://www.glensgarage.com/catalog/index.php
$250 for a MS II V3 kit. Comes with 2.5 bar map, case, heat sink, everything. 
$280 for the MS II V3 kit with the 3 bar map.


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

I used the G60 IAT and Coolant sensors, work very well. Got the inc if anyone gets stuck.
Was going to have a play with RPM based traction control, anyone had any joy with this?


----------



## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: (KeithMac)*

KeithMac,
you used the G60 IAT and CLT? Do you have some pic's where you tapped (pre-existing holes) in on the intake and head? Does MS have any problems with the readings from them?
Thanks


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (sharpshooter33)*

I used a coolant boss on the side of the head with a hole for the G60 coolant sender, and made a boost tube coupling with a BBM boss welded in for the G60 co-pot.
You can use EasyTherm to re-write the lookup tables or I can supply the inc files, drag these into the src directory of the Extra firmware, click compile.bat and the resulting .s19 file will be compatible with the G60 sensors, it sounds more complicated than it actually is!
The G60 sensors work very well with ms, plus I already had them in from the digi1 swap..
IAT adaptor`s in one of the pic on this page,
http://members.aol.com/chappyrouter/16vg60/p8.htm


_Modified by KeithMac at 12:22 AM 3-18-2006_


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (KeithMac)*

Anything specific you Megasquirt guys would like to see?Brackets?etc?
just throw some ideas @ me and Ill see what I can do.


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (sharpshooter33)*

^^^ i can give a pic of the temp/resistance graph for the g60 blue clt if youd like too








i cant think of anything id like to see new for ms. my setup's just truckin along in all its simple glory, hehe. i bet some of the edis guys could think up some products. 
ooo... maybe an iac valve blockoff plate with a vaccuum source? i dunno.


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## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

Just to keep all the fellow 16ers updated.
I've ordered a knock sensor controller called knocksenseMS and a LC-1 Wideband controller. I will let you know how this all goes as soon as I have it installed... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## SlowCorrado (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Anything specific you Megasquirt guys would like to see?Brackets?etc?
just throw some ideas @ me and Ill see what I can do.









large bore 16V intake pipe w/fitting for GM AIT sensor? (w/nice mounting bracket)
16V ISV/cold start injector blockoff plate?


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdn20VALVE* »_I've ordered a knock sensor controller called knocksenseMS
 
ahhh finally somebody running knocksense. ive been curious to see how well this system performs. i'll be waiting for updates http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (SlowCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NJRrado* »_maybe an iac valve blockoff plate with a vaccuum source? i dunno. 


_Quote, originally posted by *SlowCorrado* »_
16V ISV/cold start injector blockoff plate?

Will draw it up tonight.Vaccuum source with a fitting such as this?or multiple fittings.


_Quote, originally posted by *SlowCorrado* »_large bore 16V intake pipe w/fitting for GM AIT sensor? (w/nice mounting bracket)

I did something similar for the ABA/VR6 throttle bodies...








Uses a stock 1.8T air temperature sensor.Can also be adapted to house a GM unit if need be.How many of you would be interested in something like this.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Count me in for both...

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Will draw it up tonight.Vaccuum source with a fitting such as this?or multiple fittings.


One fitting works for me

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I did something similar for the ABA/VR6 throttle bodies...
Uses a stock 1.8T air temperature sensor.Can also be adapted to house a GM unit if need be.How many of you would be interested in something like this.


Looks good also, I have the 1.8T sensor so one like that would work great.


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 4:20 AM 3-21-2006_


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## PintSized (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

I'd love to have one of those plates, that way I don't have to worry bout drilling holes in my pretty sri. Need one for a vr6 tb!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MBRACKLIFFE (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (PintSized)*

Found these over in the Carb/ITB forum, I couldn't recall if anyone had posted them here.
The values in this table I believe are on top of the 6 degrees static timing of distributer. I am not positive though.








This one was pulled from a tuned ABF 2.0 16v it was posted by GTOBB. The table is not stock.










Here is the link to that thread, there are more MS ignition tables posted there.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2384693
_Modified by MBRACKLIFFE at 2:13 PM 3-21-2006_


_Modified by MBRACKLIFFE at 8:53 PM 3-21-2006_


----------



## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: (MBRACKLIFFE)*

Just snatched those tables up for future reference. I've been reading this thread and learning alot. 
Was originally just thinking I would MS without n'S', but it looks just as easy to n'S' and it would allow me to adjust timing for the turbo. Has anyone wired a V3 PCB for Hall signal and is up and working? If so can you share the wiring setups? was wondering if the pin locations would be different fromt he V2.2 setup.
Sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread.

Thanks for the great thread
SS33
_Modified by sharpshooter33 at 11:27 PM 3-22-2006_


_Modified by sharpshooter33 at 3:22 PM 3-23-2006_


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_
Looks good also, I have the 1.8T sensor so one like that would work great.

What throttle body are you using?
p.s. Working on the ISV block off right now.Anything else you guys can think of?


----------



## 16vandy (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

here is the deal, i just purchased everything needed to convert from Montronic to DIGI II... now i hear that DIGI II does not work well. Howmuch will it cost for the rest of the megasquirt setup, if i already have the injectors and rail? whats the best place to purchase this, and howlong will it take me to hook up/tune? i hear megasquirt is the way to go, so i htink i'll give it a shot.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (16vandy)*

How much to do the rest? Prolly $600 or so + about 40 hours of work/reading. Get yourself a wideband O2, air temp sensor, and megasquirt kit itself. 
The megasquirt kit, mega stimulator, and relay board can be purchased from glens garage http://www.glensgarage.com/
and the wideband and air temp can come from http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2454001 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Putting together megasquirt is a worthwhile effort. I recommend you follow the reading on the first page of this post. Mainly the link labled first thing to read.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_What throttle body are you using?
p.s. Working on the ISV block off right now.Anything else you guys can think of?

I am using the stock 16V throttle body or an automatic passat 16V throttle body.
I am trying to get a short runner intake for my scirocco turbo, but have had little luck looking for one.
I cant think of too many other things right now, but I promise more ideas will be coming.


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## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Anyone care to shre their accel enrichment settings? I have a feeling somethin is wrong, because I've leaned out my VE tables quite a bit, but for some reason the plugs keep getting fouled after a drive.
Could it be the AE settings?


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

It could be the decel fuel enrich setting as well as the accel enrichments settings.
The settings on the first page of the post I _think_ are the ones that worked best for me... I can check to make sure those are the latest settings when I get home.
Do you have a wideband? Adjusting the VE tables by checking the plugs probably isnt the fastest way, but I guess it could work


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## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Well I know the only reason that I check the plugs is becuase without cleaning them, I can't get the car started.








They get so carbon fouled, and i just sit there cranking forever on a cold engine.
Wideband was ordered last monday. Still waiting for it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'll recheck my accell and decell settings when I get home as well..


_Modified by cdn20VALVE at 12:51 PM 3-28-2006_


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

cdn20Valve, did you get it worked out yet??


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## urogolf (Dec 10, 2000)

using info i got in this thread, and more specifically from communications with CdnDub, need_a_vr6, wolfgti, patatron and t3 bunny, my aba w/ itbs now has spark and the fuel pump cycling correctly. tonight i am replacing my fuel pump and the lil fella shoud come to life
thanks guys
keep this thread moving http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
i'll be sure to get a vid clip up when i do


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## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_cdn20Valve, did you get it worked out yet?? 


Yes sorry guys. I did get it working great! Blew the clutch though.















BTW, my wideband and my knock control add on arrived in the mail. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (urogolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *urogolf* »_using info i got in this thread, and more specifically from communications with CdnDub, need_a_vr6, wolfgti, patatron and t3 bunny, my aba w/ itbs now has spark and the fuel pump cycling correctly. tonight i am replacing my fuel pump and the lil fella shoud come to life
thanks guys
keep this thread moving http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
i'll be sure to get a vid clip up when i do

Glad the thread was useful! Thats what I put it up here for... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Well, I just put a V3 board together and hopefully I can revise the post to make it more useful. I really want to nail down the "what do I do here part" on the MSnS-E setup as well as for MSII. However, finding the time to do everything I would like is so very hard of late... 

Glad you got it working great cdn20, the wideband will help it get even better! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdn20VALVE* »_
Yes sorry guys. I did get it working great! Blew the clutch though.















BTW, my wideband and my knock control add on arrived in the mail. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

now u need an O2A tranny....


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## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

My 16v tranny is custom geared and has a bolt kit. I really like the ratios. It's just the damn clutches that keep breaking on me.


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

How are you guys running your Vacuume sources for you MS's MAP sensor? Does the hose lenth matter at all? I have my MS ECU in my glovebox, but the wiring comes through the firewall over by the fuse box. Would that be too long of a vacuum hose if I routed the hose the same as my wiring? 
Also, the instuctions for setting the software for MS on the Laptop's end are very unclear. 
Is there a basic list of all the software programs I should have to be tuning this? I'm going to be running MSNS-E with GM sensors. I *THINK* I have Megatune setup correctly (I followed the instructions on the Megasquirt.info page about it). However, half the options are greyed out. Will they become available when I hook the ECU up to the computer? I bought the ECU prebuilt, so it's already flashed with the MSNS-E software. Thanks. I'm trying to get this cleared up before I get my wiring finished so I don't blow my car up, start a fire, or something stupid.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Ok First thing.. 
No it does not matter what length the vacuum line is. 
The source does matter. You want a dedicated vacuum line to the map sensor with no other vacuum components T'd off of the line.
As far as MSnS-E Software goes... *Hold up!* This is where *code version matching* matters a whole lot.
First off, you probably have Megatune version 2.25 installed. The code for MSnS-E on the MS ECU probably needs to be updated before it will work with that version of megatune. 
Read this post to figure out which MS ECU code version goes with each version of Megatune.
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=6086
To cheat reading that link MSnS-E firmware version Extra024s13c works with the latest 2.25 release of Megatune.
Also, read how to setup the MSnS-E firmware here:
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/setup.html
To download the Extra024s13 MSnS-E firmware there are links in the above site, but here is a direct one. 
MSnS-E Files
The current version is Extra024s13c. Its a good idea to check back and get the latest firmware for bug fixes and stuff like that.



_Modified by GTIMan82 at 11:08 AM 4-8-2006_


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

The ECU is already loaded with the firmware, and has been tested on a car before it was shipped to me.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_The ECU is already loaded with the firmware, and has been tested on a car before it was shipped to me. 

I am sure it worked. But all I am sayin is make sure you get the right version of firmware and Megatune. If you get the latest version of Megatune and use it on an old version of firmware then problems might come up. To quote the MSnS-extra post 

_Quote, originally posted by *otherpost* »_To use Extra you MUST install and configure the correct version of Megatune and you MUST use the msns-extra.ini file that came in the Extra zipfile. Read instructions on:
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/setup.html
This is the recommended code release:
Extra024s13c - Megatune 2.25 release version
With this version you should use the Megatune configurator to File>Activate the 024s version of the msns-extra.ini 

Just trying to keep ya from havin any trouble










_Modified by GTIMan82 at 11:35 AM 4-8-2006_


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Okay, I'm pretty sure I have Megatune setup correctly now (although I won't really be able to tell until I can get the car fully wired up, and test the ECU myself). Is Megatune the only thing people are using? In the earlier posts of this thread Megatweak was mentioned, but those posts were almost two years old. Is Megatune used to create both fuel and spark tables for MSNS-E?


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

mstweak is a program that will modify your maps based on datalog files. i think its kindof dissapeared because newer versions of MT have this built in.


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

Hey, I've gotten power to my MS ecu, and the far left LED comes on. However, I tried hooking the ecu to my laptop, just to see if it was communicated, and MT doesn;t register it as being connected. I'm using a DB9 to USB adapter, but the Megamanual says that it should still work. I've tried different COM ports under the Communications option. Anyone got any ideas? Pretty much the ECU had power only, and no other inputs. Would that cause it to not show up? Thanks, I'm out in my garage right now wiring up the rest.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (KingofNod)*

it should show up in MT, are you sure youre using the right version? if you havent loaded the MSnS code the newer versions of MT might not read the computer. i remember having issues using 2.25 and trying to read regular MS code....if thats the case trying using MT 2.20


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (ValveCoverGasket)*

Alright, I'll give that a shot once I get my basic wiring done. 
Im wiring up my Ignition Control Module, and the diagram I'm using says that pin 4 on the module should go to the ignition switch. Does anyone know of a good place already in the engine bay that only gets power with the switch on that is suitable for this connection? Right now I have the ECU powered off the Red/Yellow wire from the stock CE2 motronic relay board. That gives power in the on position, and hopefully cranking. However, I also have the injectors powered throug that wire as well. Is there another place I should be drawing switched power from instead? 
Sorry if these questions are dumb, but I don't want to start an electrical fire.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (KingofNod)*

i ran a relay out to the raintray, that fired up the ecu and the ICM when the key was turned on, and cranking. the injectors get their power through the realy board, so that theyre fused and whatnot


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (ValveCoverGasket)*

Well I shouldn't need that relay, since that cable (Red/Yellow) comes from the factory Main relay (I decided against using a relay board). So technically that wire is relayed. So you are running the ECU and the ICM off the same source? I have my injectors running off that source as well, do you think I should add some fuses in-line somewhere to the injectors? Even though it goes through the factory fuse panel anyway?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (KingofNod)*

id run the ecu and icm on the same power wire, and not worry about the fuse for the injectors if youre sure theyre going to fused power already


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## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (ValveCoverGasket)*

Well, I got the trannny off, and one of th eclutch disc springs broke out! I replaced the clutch, installed my wideband and a knocksenseMS. 
I'm getting some weird tach signals now. Bouncing around. definitely some interference somewhere.


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## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

*Problem reading wideband O2 into megatune*
First of all, I have the MS V2.2 board and I am running megatune 2.25. I just bought and installed the AEM UEGO wideband O2 sensor last weekend. It works great on it's own, but my MS will only read it as a narrow band. In megatune I changed the _EGO sensor_ to wideband, and _switch point _to 2.5V, but it is still reading it like a narrow band (0-1V). So megatune thinks I am full rich, because the O2 reading is maxed out on the scale which can't read more than 1 volt.
In other words, I can run the car with EGO correction turned off, but it thinks I am running rich when it is turned on. Is there something I forgot to change in megatune? 
-Nick


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (NTRabbit)*

what is the wideband itself outputting? is it sending a 0-5v signal or a 0-1v signal? some of the widebands on the market have options to simulate a narrowband so that they can drive a narrowband afr gauge. i know the lm-1 does this, not sure about the aem. 
id bet if you're only seeing 0-1v at the ms unit, then it probably has more to do with the wideband than ms.


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## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (NJRrado)*

Well, the AEM UEGO does have a few different options for the signal output where you can change it to either 0-5V or 0-1V, but I made sure mine is on the 0-5V. If you open the realtime display window in megatune, you can see the 02 voltage gauge and the numerical readout shows the voltage up around 2 and 3 volts. BUT, the graphical readout shows the bar graph maxed out. Also, on the tuning page of megatune, my LED mixture bar is maxed out, as well as the O2 gauge. Shouldn't megatune recalibrate all these gauges when you switch the settings to Wideband?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (NTRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NTRabbit* »_Well, the AEM UEGO does have a few different options for the signal output where you can change it to either 0-5V or 0-1V, but I made sure mine is on the 0-5V.

Just get the Innovative LM-1 unit.Even comes with a pretty gauge option


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (NTRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NTRabbit* »_Shouldn't megatune recalibrate all these gauges when you switch the settings to Wideband? 

you need to go to the settings.ini file in your cars MTconfig folder for megatune, and scroll down until you see the narrowband and wideband lines. there should be a whole list of o2 sensors depending on what version of MT youre using (if you dont have 2.25 non beta, GET IT!) set it to whichever o2 you have, or whatevers closest to yours. im guessing you have this set to narrowband still
the new version of MT has an afr gauge option, which eliminates the need to buy displays with your widebands. just as a side note


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## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (ValveCoverGasket)*

ok, I was thinking that I would have to go in and change some things like that. The AEM UEGO 6in1 wideband kit is pretty cool. It has the sensor controller built into the display that goes in your car, so you don't have to hide the box somewhere. It comes with different color face plates to match your car too. And I got it delivered to my front door step for $265. For the sensor, gauge, and control box built into one, it's a pretty good deal. 
Anyways, I'll try to modify the *.ini file tonight and see what I can get out of it. Thanks.


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (NTRabbit)*

^^^ oohhhh i assumed you had already changed the stuff in MTconfig. sorry. do what VCG said http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Just get the Innovative LM-1 unit.Even comes with a pretty gauge option









Do you guys know which Innovate sensor is the correct one in the MT settings? They have two options. One with 1-2v and one for 5v. I have the LM1 as well from DIYautotune.
ALso, does anyone have a good running stock 16v MSQ file that they would be willing to share to get me started? I'm pretty much ready to fire the car up for the first time, but I would like a setup that I know is good so if it doesn't start, I'm not stuck with sorting through both hardware and software possibilities for problems. 

_Modified by KingofNod at 5:26 PM 4-12-2006_


_Modified by KingofNod at 5:26 PM 4-12-2006_


----------



## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (KingofNod)*

GTIman82 has all of his information on the first page of this post. He has his VE map on there too, so you could just copy everything from there. Although I would just try to do it yourself. If you follow the stuff on the megasquirt website for tuning MS and getting the car started, it gets you off with a pretty good base line. After you put in your engine size and injector size, it calculates your Req_Fuel and gives you a rough map to start. My car fired up immediately the first time I went at it. I could drive it around the neighborhood too even with the rough map. 
It does take a little bit of time to figure out how to dial it in, and it can be a little frustrating, but it is worth it. That way you will know how to effectively make adjustments in the future.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (NTRabbit)*

Yeah, i'm going through the tuning manual right now just so I can do it myself and learn the basics. I don't want to miss anything though.


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (KingofNod)*

Why would the Spark menu be greyed out in Megatune? I'm using version 2.25. 
I'm trying to add a spark table now. I have the settings file edited, and the ECU is running a compatable version of MSNS-E. Any ideas? The option was not greyed out earlier, but now it is?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_One with 1-2v and one for 5v. I have the LM1 as well from DIYautotune.

I did not think Innovative offered 2 different sensors?








Whatever the case The LM-1 has a programmable analog output which simulates narrowband output which your MS requires.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_I did not think Innovative offered 2 different sensors?








Whatever the case The LM-1 has a programmable analog output which simulates narrowband output which your MS requires.

Why would it have to simulate narrowband? Doesn't MS already support wideband signals?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_Doesn't MS already support wideband signals?

If it does,this is (great) news to me.


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Wizard-of-OD)*

yes, mt does support wideband signals. you dont need to make the lm-1 simulate narrowband.
as far as i can tell (im an lm-1 owner myself), you could make the lm-1 output anything you wanted (within reason), as long as you want a linear graph, you just pick your 10.0 afr voltage, pick your 20.0afr voltage, and let it go.
from the factory one of the outputs of the lm-1 is 0-5 volts, and one is 1-2 volts. if you're using the 1-2 volt output, you want to set the "innovate1-2" choice in mt config. if 0-5 set "innovate0-5." 
i hope im answering the right question this time.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (NJRrado)*

How did you Motronic guys wire up your fuel pump? I'm pretty sure my isn't comming on while I'm cranking (or at all). I have the MS fuel pump wire hooked to a source that gets power while cranking. I used to hear it prime, but now I don't.


----------



## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (KingofNod)*

are you using a relay board?


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (NTRabbit)*

I'm using the stock Motronic fuse panel/relay board.


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (KingofNod)*

thats one thing i dont understand...why people dont get the relay/fuse boards for MS...
it makes life so much easier.


----------



## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_thats one thing i dont understand...why people dont get the relay/fuse boards for MS...
it makes life so much easier.

He is right. It's worth the extra time and money (although it isn't much of either). But you don't have one now, so that doesn't help you, haha. 
When you turn the ignition key to the on position (not crank), do you hear the fuel pump turn on for about 3 seconds and then shut off?


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (NTRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NTRabbit* »_He is right. It's worth the extra time and money (although it isn't much of either). But you don't have one now, so that doesn't help you, haha. 
When you turn the ignition key to the on position (not crank), do you hear the fuel pump turn on for about 3 seconds and then shut off? 

I used to, now it doesn't anymore? I accidently had the MS signal wire hooked to switched ignition positive, when it should have been to the ground to activate the fuel pump relay. I've removed the wire, and attached it to what is supposed to be the switched ground wire to the fuel pump relay, but now I don't get anything.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

Finally got my car running on MS. It idles and revs. However, it idles right around 1200/1300 RPM's, and seems to climb very slowly (started around 1000 when I started the car). The Coolant temp doesn't seem to be accurate. The hose gets warm (coolant is flowing), but the sensor reads 85 degrees or so (moves up very slowly, took a minute or two for it to move 3 degrees). 
Also, my A/F guage in MT isn't reading correctly I don't think. Its greyed out like it isn't getting an input. AFR 1 has like a slowly moving needle around .9 or something which doesn't make sense. AFR 2 has like a constant 8.89 reading, which doesn't mean much either.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

I got a screenshot of MT running, and my VE table. 

















For some reason, today I got it to run correctly for a decent amount of time. I still had to give it gas to keep it alive at first, but it made its way through the warmup enrichments and came out of warmup mode without dying for the first time. What was strange, is that as it went up the warmup enrichement the mixture slowly richened up. I was idling very well at around 14.0 for a good long time. It came out of warmup, and the idle didn't change at all, but then my AFR guage stopped readin







. I shut the car down, started it back up (started right up and stayed on), and then it said it was running at 16.6 something AFR. I really don't know what to make of it. Changing stuff doesn't change the AFR at all it seems. Giving it more VE doesn't help, warmup isn't an issue past 160, should I try messing with the afterstart enrichments? Or are they not useful past warmup either?


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Everytime you make changes to the VE you send them to(update) the ECU correct? 
Also, are you changing the VE Table points at the right locations? 
Afterstart enrichments usually only last for a few or just 1 second and should be messed with last. They help get a quick/smoth engine start.
Sounds like you are on your way to soon be running good! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 11:49 AM 4-19-2006_


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Might be closer than I think. 
I ran the software that came with my 02 sensor to track the Wideband's AFR reading, and it was right on target. A little rich, but at least its readings made sense. Unfortunatly, I only have one port, and both MS and the wideband use it, so I can't have both running at the same time. MT says I have a solid AFR of 16.5-16.8 or something. I know that makes no sense, because it doesn't move when I give it throttle. The Logworks software was different. It read the AFR just as I expected it should. It cycles at idle between like 10.1 (rich, but close) and 14.0, richens up when I give it throttle, and leans out when I let off. I have the settings.ini setup for the right 02 sensor, and it was even working ealier today for a little bit in MT. I've been reading that some people with the LC1 (what I have) have had to set a generic WB controller, and type in LC1's values manually to get it to work right. Maybe I will try this.


----------



## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Sounds like you're on the right track. The hardest part of MS is when you first get it running. Thats when you realize that you have LOTS of unanswered questions that you didn't expect to pop up. Just got to knock them out one by one, and the **** starts coming together. It sounds like you are answering a lot of your own questions as you go along. I've wasted many hours at work thinking about issues until I figured them out, haha.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (NTRabbit)*

How is everyone wiring up their injectors? Are you all using both injector outputs? or just one. Do both outputs signal at the same time? I pulled everything out of my 16V awhile back and dont remember what I did!!








P.S. My brain is like friggin gone ...











_Modified by GTIMan82 at 5:05 AM 4-27-2006_


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

I have them all on one bank. I had them on two before, but I don't really understand the advantage of having both? Just another thing to worry about and moniter IMO. I guess if one failed, you could still run on two cylinders, but thats probably not very smart. I'm guessing it was designed for bigger motors in mind? Then again, there is probably a very good reason for having them on two. I'm still new to this game, and don't know much.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

it was designed for v8s and v12s to run multiple banks. i have mine all wired onto one bank, so if anything ever happens to that injector driver, i just swap to the other bank


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

it was made for alternating fire. you dont need to be spraying fuel at all times. 1 and 4 on one bank, and then 2 and 3.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (bonesaw)*

Ah now I remember what I had done... I had split a Digi II harness so that 1 & 4 were together and 2 & 3 were together but for some reason I combined them at the relay board to run on one bank. 
I cant say I have heard of an injector bank going bad, but keeping them on one had worked well for me... still managed to get 34mpg highway with potential for more (higher A/F ratio).
Bonesaw, do you have yours setup and running that way?


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_it was made for alternating fire. you dont need to be spraying fuel at all times. 1 and 4 on one bank, and then 2 and 3. 

Damn, never thought about it that way. Wonder if that improves gas mileage any?


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## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

I cant seem to find the exact info from the ms site but ill try to sum it up. When all the cylinders spray at the same time there is a pressure drop in the fuel rail. When they alter the fuel pressure in the rail doesn't drop as much and makes the engine idles smoother. Also, like Bonesaw said there isn't really a need for all the injectors to fire at the same time anyway. I have also heard that its harder on your injectors because they are now firing a lot more then they should be. Hope this helps.
-Chris


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_
I cant say I have heard of an injector bank going bad, but keeping them on one had worked well for me... 

ive seen one go bad on a buddies rabbit.


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## heyfu (Mar 27, 2006)

hey chris /gtiman82 you still working at bap/geon ?


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## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

so can MS run all 4 on 1 bank and then kick in another 4 on a second bank whenever tripped by a signal such as boost? i.e. staged injection


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

Ok to those who asked for the VR sensor & 60-2 wheel,its finally available for release:
*16v Crank Trigger Kit*


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## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

This trigger wheel setup looks very nice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . Wish it was a little more affordable though. Maybe it just seems high cause im poor


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Captain16vGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Captain16vGTI* »_This trigger wheel setup looks very nice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . Wish it was a little more affordable though. Maybe it just seems high cause im poor









It ca be pieced out individually but when you break down the parts into components it really is a very good deal compared with the competition.Your getting:
* 60-2 wheel
* VR Sensor
* Bracket for VR Sensor
* mounting hardware
* 60-2 wheel spacer plate


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

MS was whole reason i got rid of digi1 on my buddies car. Injectors should not be firing all the time. you can also wire it to both banks and in Megatune tell it simultaneous if you want that.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (heyfu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heyfu* »_hey chris /gtiman82 you still working at bap/geon ? 

Nope, I left Geon around August before I got married. I had WAY to much work to do on my house at the time, and couldnt afford losing the Saturday. It is unfortunate because now I only have a trickle of $$ going into my depleted VW fund.








Well, as far as the injectors go I think I will alternate off of both banks and see what happens. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Also, It is friggin awesome that a company actually builds something that was asked for! However, what is the 60-2 trigger wheel used for?







Benefits of using it / not using it?


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## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_
Also, It is friggin awesome that a company actually builds something that was asked for! However, what is the 60-2 trigger wheel used for?







Benefits of using it / not using it?

IIRC, it is used for spark control, as opposed to a hall sender/distributor signal. There's debate as to which is better. a trigger wheel and vr sensor are supposed to be more precise and accurate to a higher rpm than a hall sender, but the difference is barely, if at all, noticeable. I think the MS site goes into more detail. Here is some: http://megasquirt.sourceforge.....html


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

Well, it looks like its not a _major_ step foward, but it sure would make life easier for me considering how often I switch camsets or advance/retard the cam gear! I might have to order one of these setups for my friends Jetta GLI just because of that reason alone. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

What are you guys doing as far as deccel enrichments? I've had it all over the place and the thing still bucks when i let off the gas. Had it at 75, 100, 120, 150, 175. Any ideas? Or am I even in the ballpark?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

i left mine at 100 and theres not a whole lot of bucking.
when you get your wideband back see what the afr is doing when you left off the gas...perhaps the very high vacuum areas of your VE table need more fuel


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Yeah, that makes sense. I can't wait to get that damn thing back. I want to see what I can make this thing do. I can't even get into it now, or at least I refuse to risk it. Although it feels nice below 4000 rpm's at less than 50% throttle.








I got the boring part of the map okay I guess.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

just wait till you start unlocking horsepower haha
and remember the real power is in the spark map...martyn16v has a good one in the carbs/sem/itb forum standalone spark map post


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Yeah, his is the exact one I have it running on now. I haven't played around with it too much.


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## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

I got my engine back together today, finished wiring up the injectors and grounds, and tried to start...







but nothing. When I turn the key to run, the fuel pump primes, and a spark plug sparks (i have plug #1 grounded on the head to see if it is sparking). In megatune, I get a reading of 2 rpm, and a .4 pulse width. This is when the fuel pump is priming. After the 2 seconds or whetever it is, rpms and pw both drop to zero. When I turn the key to start, I don't get any rpms or pulse widths.
A couple things I've checked: there is power to both the ecu and injectors. I checked voltage at the hall sensor plug, across terminal 3 and 1 (red/black and brown) and with the key off, 0v, key in run 10.4v, start 9-10v. This is wired according to midnightgli's diagram. 
Here is how my car is wired:
ran new iat wiring
used stock clt wiring + extensions
used stock 02 sensor wiring
used stock wiring from hall sender:
....Green wire to pin 25
....Red/Black wire to pin 5 of ICM
....Brown/White wire to pin 3 of ICM
extended wire from ICM 6 to pin 30
extended wire from ICM 2 to ground
used stock switched power, from T6a/5 Black to pin 4 ICM
from same source as ^, T6a/6 black/yellow to ignition coil
just spliced a new wire into the negative side of the coil to ICM 1. I think I could have used a wire from T6a or T6b, but this was easier, and I know correct.
used stock fuel pump wiring - from T6a/4 Red/yellow to pin 37
As far as I can tell, it sparks every time I turn the key from off to run, but only once. If the hall sender is unplugged and I turn the key to run then plug it back in, the fuel pump primes again.
The board and megatune look fine when I use the modded stim, so I don't think it is the board.
I only was only able to troubleshoot for about an hour tonight. Maybe I can get to it tomorrow.
So any ideas?
problems:
1. no spark
2. no rpm signal, except when fuel pump is on








3. no pulse width/injection when cranking
What should my initial settings in megatune be? like cranking settings, spark - anything under general or code config?
thanks for any help http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
edit:
after reading through the msns-e thread, again, I have a couple things I will double and triple check. first, make sure the hall is wired properly, ie the signal wire, green/white goes to pin 25. Check the ground, pin 1 brown/white wire goes to ICM #3. Check power, pin 3 goes to ICM # 5. Check ICM 2 is grounded, and ICM 6 to pin 30. I checked pin 4 is a switched 12v source, I pulled it from T6 a/5. I will double check pin 1 goes to the negative side of the coil.
If all this checks out, I will check the signal wire - when I spin the distributor it should pulse, if it stays high there is a problem with the hall. Also, if I pull the hall plug, and the middle LED stays on, there is a problem in the MS wiring i need to track down.
If this doesn't help, I might just run a 5v source from pin 24 to the hall sender, and ground it directly, thus only 4 wires from the ICM. I'll have to see.


_Modified by DGruber58 at 12:53 AM 5-1-2006_


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

You need to make sure your fuel constants are setup correctly. Also remember you have to hit "Burn to ECU" before any changes you make in MT change anything. Make sure your cranking RPM isn't too low. (Megamanual suggests like 300 or something). Also make sure your pulsewidths aren't too small. That was my problem at first. It was cranking getting fuel and spark, but I wasn't giving it enough fuel.


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## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

The ecu isn't reading an rpm while cranking, nor is it sparking, aside from the initial key turn. I don't think the injectors are firing either (although I think that is because the computer doesn't think the car is cranking.)
so I haven't even gotten to fidling with those settings


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

Might sound stupid, but is your ECU connected to a power source that gets power WHILE Cranking? A lot of circuits cut power while cranking to keep battery drain down. If your computer is hooked to one that cuts power while cranking, well you aren't going to be getting much done.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

i was gonna suggest the same. are you using the stock ECM relay or?


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## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (bonesaw)*

I wired in a separate relay for the ecu/injectors power. I used a live wire (circuit 30) that originally went to the motronic ecu. the MS board definitely has power while cranking.


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## urogolf (Dec 10, 2000)

i had an issue where with a weakish battery and a rabbit starter on a 2.0l that meagsquirt would shutoff during cranking.... i swapped in a newer style (faster spinning) starter and charged the battery and things worked great
the old starter was drawing sooo much power during cranking that ms would shut off


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## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (urogolf)*

I don't think that's it, but it is something I'll keep in mind. I just got home from work so I'm going to troubleshoot for an hour or so here.
thanks
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
edit:
well, after a little bit of tinkering, I think I may have found the problem. Originally, I used midnightgli's diagram, but I didn't use an older ignition module harness. Apparently this had a resistor inline. Anyways, I didn't have this harness or resistor, and directly connected ICM 5 to to the + on the hall sender. This fed it 12v, and I think that killed it. So tonight I replaced the + hall sender wire, to pin 24 instead of ICM 5 (5vref as opposed to 12v battery). But I think the damage is done.
I tried a couple of the ignition component tests from the bentley.(ch8 pg11) I have a good voltage supply and ground to ICM, as well as voltage supply and ground to the hall sender. I also checked from the center pin (switch) to ground(I think) and got something like 3.8v. also of note, led18 is always on. When I first turn the key to run, it is bright while the fuel pump is running. then after the pump turns off, it dims slightly.
Then I tried the hall sender switching function test, but I didn't have an led, so I just used my multimeter. I didn't get any fluctuation, IIRC it was a steady 12v or so. I think this is what led 18 does anyway, flash every trigger, but mine is always on.
I also tried the coil test, but don't think I had it set up correctly, as I couldn't get any voltages (it is supposed to be at least 2volts for a second or two.)
so, can anyone confirm that 12v could kill a hall sender, which then give symptoms like listed above?
if not, any other ideas? GTIMan82 just informed me MS doesn't need the power stage a motronic coil has, so I will probably remove that and rewire the coil, but I don't think this would cause a no spark situation.
Let me know what you think http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by DGruber58 at 11:47 PM 5-1-2006_


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## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

well, a little bit of an update. I rewired my coil, removing the power stage. I also checked the rest of the wiring, hall was wired correctly, icm too. 
Then I found out my cams weren't turning, ie everything was still tdc, not spinning with starter. So I thought something was wrong with my starter, pulled that off, all the teeth were good, I was stumped, put it back on, still nothing. check my flywheel, not tdc.







turns out the crank bolt unscrewed itself, thus the crank was spinning but not the cams. I didn't hear the pistons hit the valves at any point, but I don't know how. I can rotate the crank without any tapping noises, and everything sounded fine. I had a hockey game, so I didn't have a chance to finish retiming everything to check it out. What are the odds my valves are fine? Like I said, the cams never turned, the cam pulley is at tdc. Maybe the valves are just right, that they aren't open enough to hit?
any ideas?
thanks


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

Considering the situation, your valves are probably fine. Especially if the cam pulley was at TDC. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif At least you found something to fix


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## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_Considering the situation, your valves are probably fine. Especially if the cam pulley was at TDC. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif At least you found something to fix









1) there are intake valves open on other cylinder(s) when #1 is at TDC








2) check the key part of the lower timing pulley - when they spin like that there is a chance of chewing up the key which screws your timing.
3) do a compression check after you get it all buttoned down again!
BTW that bolt coming loose is fairly common...just rebuilt a GLI that had that happen - and yes we did a valve job, but nothing bent...and it was running


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## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OhioBenz* »_1) there are intake valves open on other cylinder(s) when #1 is at TDC








2) check the key part of the lower timing pulley - when they spin like that there is a chance of chewing up the key which screws your timing.
3) do a compression check after you get it all buttoned down again!
BTW that bolt coming loose is fairly common...just rebuilt a GLI that had that happen - and yes we did a valve job, but nothing bent...and it was running









1. I think the intake valves on #3 and exhaust on #2 are slightly open, not fully, which I think might have saved my ass here.
2. The key and crankshaft were fine. It looks like the pulley was far enough off the crank to not to any damage.
3. will do
I might be able to look at it tonight, we'll see. Thanks for the suggestions


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

never hurts to put a couple drops of blue Loctite on that crank bolt!!
and i tighten mine with a 2ft cheater pipe on my ratchet...cos i cant get enuf leverage on my torque wrench when the engine is in the car.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (DGruber58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DGruber58* »_
1. I think the intake valves on #3 and exhaust on #2 are slightly open, not fully, which I think might have saved my ass here.


Yea #3 is in the process of closing and almost closed at TDC. Even if the pistons did hit it there is a chance the impact just closed it all the way. Most likely you are good to go http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif MS should run the car superb when everything is bolted back together







Your car will be the heat!







Even if stuff is totally broken, at least you felt optimistic after reading this post








Yes, loctite is a good thing! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by GTIMan82 at 4:45 AM 5-4-2006_


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 4:46 AM 5-4-2006_


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## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

how do you keep the engine from turning when you're tightening that pulley? To loosen it, I dropped a rope down the spark plug hole, I don't know if there is a better way tough..
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (DGruber58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DGruber58* »_how do you keep the engine from turning when you're tightening that pulley? To loosen it, I dropped a rope down the spark plug hole, I don't know if there is a better way tough..
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

put the car in 1st gear, either have someone hold the brake pedal down - or put a screwdriver into the vented part of your rotor - in the center of the caliper (both sides) that should hold it


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## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

I always use an impact gun to tighten. Never had it come loose. If you don't have an impact gun, you should really use some blue loctite like they said before. Clean the threads really well before hand too with some brake cleaner to make sure you get all the oil off before you put the loctite on


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## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (NTRabbit)*

I got it started http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . After I got it back together it just took a little fiddling with the distributor to get it started, but all my enrichments are way off. I had to keep feathering the gas to keep it running. After it warmed up, though, it seemed to run well, and idled. Today I'm going to try to get the timing/trigger angle sorted out, then work on my enrichments. Any idea which enrichment would cause the car to die in a couple seconds? It cranks for a bit, catches, revs to about 2k, then drops and then dies.
thanks for all the help http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (DGruber58)*








I fried my starter. F%#@
so much for having the car on the road for monday.
So I didn't really get to fiddle with the enrichments any. I think it is my afterstart. Like I said, if I can keep it running for a bit, it starts to run fine. I didn't get a chance to finish adjusting the timing, maybe I'm missing something. I adjust the dist so its at about 1000 rpms, but then I try to adjust the trigger angle from 10 to even 11 it dies before I can adjust the distr again.
Hopefully I can hit the j/y tomorrow, grab a new starter (probably off a mk3).
On a sidenote, the engine sounds really sweet. A big swoosh when you nail the gas from the injectors spraying. Oh, and you can ghetto fab an intake by chopping up your old fuel distr. air boot. I'll have pics later today. It will work until I can make an intake tube.


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

Can someone look this over really quick, and tell me if anything appears way off? It's just a screenshot, but it shows everything pretty well.
Its WOT 2nd and 3rd. I believe the richest that it goes is around 12.8, and the leanest it gets is high 13 (just under 14). 








Thanks.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

looks good to me, looks like youre also getting a clean tps signal, which is good. some folks have issues with noise on that line but that looks solid to me


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (DGruber58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DGruber58* »_I got it started http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . After I got it back together it just took a little fiddling with the distributor to get it started, but all my enrichments are way off. I had to keep feathering the gas to keep it running. After it warmed up, though, it seemed to run well, and idled. Today I'm going to try to get the timing/trigger angle sorted out, then work on my enrichments. Any idea which enrichment would cause the car to die in a couple seconds? It cranks for a bit, catches, revs to about 2k, then drops and then dies.
thanks for all the help http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Having the same problem, getting a different answer from everyone I ask.








A lot of people are suggesting that my warmups are too lean, but the car is at 12 AFR when its dying, and my warmups are almost as low as they can go. My VE table is a little rich at idle, but thats the only way to keep it idling smooth.


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

sounds like an afterstart enrichment issues if it catches and speeds up real quick for a few seconds then dies.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

For some reason it just hit me I had the same problem. To fix it I changed the throttle rest position so that it was open a little bit more and then readjusted idle settings. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif That worked for me.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Mines already propped open a bit. Its a fueling issue I'm thinking. If I keep it propped anymore, the idle will be too high at normal operating conditions.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

megasquirt 2 built, and functioning, had a backwards diode for some reason...







lmk if anybody has any ms2 build q's honestly if anybody follows the instructions you could build a megasquirt in your sleep.. friggin easy ... just tedious


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

034 post updated.









_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Working on the ISV block off right now.

Anything else you guys wanted besides an ISV block off plate that will house a GM Air temperature sensor/Vaccuum nipple?


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

just for clarification purposes, the lc-1 has two analog outputs and one input... the lm1 uses the input... or its terminated if you dont use an lm-1... 
the outputs are programmable, one comes set as 1-2v whatever it is for narrowband (stock ecu applications) ...and ne as 1-5v for "wideband" from what i hear they can both be setup for "wideband" 1-5v ... i prolly just made this more confusing!


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*

I spent an age getting factory style warmup back, the engine needs more fuel AND air when cold to idle properly, this is what the ISV is for. In the end I wrote my own isv control code, starts on the button cold or hot. If you have no ISV control you`ll have to manually open the throttle butteflie until the car wams up to give it more air, or run a mk1 aux air bleed valve.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (KeithMac)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KeithMac* »_I spent an age getting factory style warmup back, the engine needs more fuel AND air when cold to idle properly, this is what the ISV is for. In the end I wrote my own isv control code, starts on the button cold or hot. If you have no ISV control you`ll have to manually open the throttle butteflie until the car wams up to give it more air, or run a mk1 aux air bleed valve. 

Thats what I was afraid of, but people say they have gotten it perfect with no ISV? 
I know It will idle when cold with the throttle propped open, but then the idle is high after the car is warmed up.


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_
I know It will idle when cold with the throttle propped open, but then the idle is high after the car is warmed up. 

mine has a spot of a handful more degrees of spark down near 500rpms so when it drops itll rev itself up. no isv, and it warms up fine, sounds kind of lopey for a few seconds but its fine


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

I was able to find the happy medium of throttle open, enrichment settings, and spark advance. Idled great @950 RPMS right away even when cold.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

so none of you have just retrofitted a tps onto your cars you just bought those passat ones ?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*

Passat TB is what I did, but I dont see why a retrofit couldn't be done. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Well I was playing with it today, and can get it to start up and idle, but it just creeps up as warmups are pulled out. By the time the car is warm its idling steady at 1400 RPM's.








Tried pulling away timing at idle, but that wasn't a good idea. Tried taking away fuel, it just idled faster, tried adding fuel, the idle stayed at 1400 but a lot richer. 
In the end, I just closed the throttle stop again, and I'll have to wait till the engine cools till I can try it again.
Something strange and alarming happened on the test drive today also. The car would accelerate on its own. For some reason when I let off the throttle, and pushed IN the clutch (so it would idle while rolling), it would stay at 27KPA, and the spark would be advanced to like 27. It would idle at 3000, and keep increasing. The car essentially was accelerating on its own when I let the clutch back out. This is a pretty important thing to NOT have happen. Any ideas on what caused this? I tried restarting, and it still did it. I pulled over, loaded a previous file, it ran fine. Reloaded the other file, then it was idling and driving fine. Was it because I set my timing advance to like 2 around idle to keep it from iding at 1500? I changed it back to around 10 like it was before. 


_Modified by KingofNod at 12:56 PM 5-17-2006_


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

sounds like a vacuum leak, or something jamming the throttle?


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Yeah, but wouldn't a vacuume leak be apparent on the kPA gauage? Wouldn't it fluctuate? Haven't ruled out the throttle, but I'll check it.


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_Yeah, but wouldn't a vacuume leak be apparent on the kPA gauage? Wouldn't it fluctuate? Haven't ruled out the throttle, but I'll check it. 

are you running a regular vacuum gauge and an AF gauge?
if you are running a vacuum gauge a leak would lower the readings and AF should go leaner unless the O2/ecu are working to continually compensate - which then would cause higher rpm....more air+more fuel to keep from being lean= more rpm! Can you disconnect the o2 from the ecu and watch the AF readings? I wonder if the increased air without ECU reaction wouldnt show up as lean condition.
might isolate the cause a bit that way...


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

I'm just using the MAP gauge in MT to measure it. I don't have 02 correction turned on, so my 02 readings shouldn't be doing anything I figured? Maybe I'll check, because I played around with a lot of things, and it may have gotten put back on.


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Wierd problem that! Reason I went for ISV is because mine`s cammed and the power steering would kill the engine as well. Ran with no ISV on the Digi1 for a while as well, was a pain until warm.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (KeithMac)*

I have no powersteering or AC. Ran no ISV on Digifant as well, and it ran very well from cold starts.


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_I'm just using the MAP gauge in MT to measure it. I don't have 02 correction turned on, so my 02 readings shouldn't be doing anything I figured? Maybe I'll check, because I played around with a lot of things, and it may have gotten put back on. 

get a cheap vac gauge and hook it up before you start making more changes...
do you have an AF gauge?


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

Using MT's, or I can use Logworks'.


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

im sure MT's gauge will be fine, and it takes a bit of work and determination to turn on o2 correction, so im sure you didnt do that by accident


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Woohoo! Got my car running. Still haven't played with the starting settings much, still need to make sure my trigger angle is right. I drove over to pick up a timing light, about a 10 min drive. The car ran really hot, and coolant was overflowing. I'm hoping it is just an air bubble, but I had the car running for about an hour. idk. Anyway, I don't think my trigger angle is 
correct. 
After I got the car started and warmed up, I turned the distributor so the rpms were about 1000. Then I tried to change the trigger angle in MT by a degree or two and it would immediately die. So I tried setting it to 60, and that worked. But my idle kpa was around 60-70. Stock cams. I have my fpr and MAP sensor T-ed into the line that comes off the manifold and goes to the climate controls, and brake booster. AFAIK, this should be a good source? Would I need to plug up any of the barbs on the throttle body that aren't used? Namely the large one for the charcoal canister?. Assuming my vacuum line is good, any idea why my idle is 60kpa?
After I got the timing light, I checked how my ignition timing was, and ended up adjusting the trigger angle in MT to about 45 or 48 for the line to be close, about a half a degree off. But now my idle is like 1500-2000rpm. After I adjusted the trigger angle, the car ran a little cooler (coolant still overflowed, oil around 230 F) and had more power, didn't hit a wall at 4k. So, anyone know if I set the trigger angle correctly?
Thanks
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
edit:
after some reading: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic...art=0
seems I was using the wrong mark. I think I need to do this:
In MT, set Trigger angle to 10, trigger angle additon to 0, crank timing to trigger return, hold ignition to 0, spark output inverted to No, fixed angle to 10, trim angle to 0. Get car started, warmed up. Rotate dist. to about 1000rpm. Change trigger angle to 60. Check timing mark on flywheel(the 0 mark at tdc, not the | at 6 btdc) and change trigger angle until the timing mark lines up at 10 deg.
This sound right?


_Modified by DGruber58 at 3:32 PM 5-18-2006_


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

Set fixed angle to 6 degrees and use the stock timing marker to get your trigger angle dialed in.
48 degrees is no-mans-land in the megasquirt, you need to aim for 55+, or 0 to 20 in next clinder mode.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

You want a dedicated vacuum source for the map sensor. 60-70KPA at idle tells me you have a vacuum leak or your throttle rest position is open too much.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Mine idles around 34-40. However, when it idles at like 3500 RPMs, it goes down to like 27 or so, and the spark advance goes way up to around 25. 
I don't understand whats going on. It does it sometimes, then it stops, then it starts doing it again. The throttle is not getting bound. If I close the throttle stop, the car does not start and stay running if I turn off the car, and restart it. What are people doing for idle control? Getting MS to idle is ridiculous.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Sorry you are having trouble, have you checked the support forums for megasquirt? http://www.msefi.com/viewforum...rt=30
I would post a topic there with this problem or search for a solution.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

anybody using the GM CLT ballast resistors and used easytherm and used the stock blue cts that digi2 uses... (i had a digi2 16v before) i honestly dont think i want to use this friggin chevy piece..







its too tall to fit on the side of the f'in head


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_anybody using the GM CLT ballast resistors and used easytherm and used the stock blue cts that digi2 uses... 

Yes, I used the white 16V sensor, but it is functionaly the same as the digi2. The Bentley manual has the resistance vs temperature graph for the sensors, and easytherm worked really well for me.


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_You want a dedicated vacuum source for the map sensor. 60-70KPA at idle tells me you have a vacuum leak or your throttle rest position is open too much.

Yesterday I changed my vacuum source to the charcoal canister barb on the throttle body. That seemed better.
I also tried to set the ignition timing. But I only have an inductive timing light, not an advance timing light, so I'm not sure if I did this correctly. In MT, I have a 60 deg trigger angle and a 6 deg fixed angle. With this, I turned the distr until the flywheel 6 deg notch lined up with the pointer. Is this correct? I was trying to think if I would need to set it to 6 or 12 or add/subtract something.
And I'm still having problems with the coolant system, so I haven't even started tuning anything. Seems like I've been trying to set the timing so I can start tuning for 3 weeks.


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

Drove home today for the first time in long while. Turns out the o-ring on the expansion tank cap was folded over, so not maintaining pressure. After I fixed that, I set my timing as I said above. Then switched over to my spark map. Went for a little test drive







. Obviously a lot of tuning to do, but at least it's running. My idle kpa was fluctuating around 45-50, so I think something is still off there. Also, it stalls when I come to a stop if I don't feather the gas and sort of ease into the lower rpms. The ase and wue are way off, but once it's warmed up and driving, it's alright. I've been playing around with mstweak3000 and reading up and how to set up the enrichments. I need to configure the bosch coolant temp sensor again, as it was reading high. At least I've finally made some progress http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .
Any tips on honing in the enrichments?
Currently, my cranking/prime table starts at 13.9 at -40F to 3.6 at 160F, increments of about .4. My warm starts are ok, but cold I have to feather the gas until it warms up. I read on msefi.com that 20% of your req_fuel is a good warm cranking pw, and about 85% for cold. I figure I'll get the warm (160F) pw narrowed down, then set them all to that and start richening them as I need to.
Afterstart I have set to run for 10 sec, currently its an even 3% across all temps. Any suggestions on good starting points? I think for MS, not MSNS-e there is only 1 enrichment, as opposed to a table of temps/ % enrich, and about 20% is recommended. I guess start at 0 and work up? 
Any tips for the warm up as well? Is this in addition to the ase? So I have the 20% ase + the say 120% warmp up? If I'm trying to tune the ase, do I want the warmup to be the same enrichment, say 20%ase at 40F, and 120%wue at 40F, just to make sure the ase is correct? or do I want the wue all 100% until I get the ase narrowed in? This would probably mean the engine dies every 10 secs, but if I get the cranking pw and ase correct, and the engine reliably starts and runs for those 10 secs, then I can move on?
Guess it takes a little playing around to find a balance between cranking and ase, and then warmup as well.
Also, how does your map respond when your sitting in your driveway? If I stab the throttle I see the map spike but even if I hold the throttle it dips down to even 15-25. Is this because there isn't a load on the engine?
The car sounds really good. Gotta love the open air filter, especially when the second butterfly of the throttle opens.








Thanks for any information. this thread, as well as many others have been a great help. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

Can i take tach signal from the + terminal of my coil ? That is how i wired my car... it shuoldnt matter anymore since its not bosch anything really right?
Also, hall effect is what it uses for crank angle obviously? So if i have it wired wrong that is the sole reason for my megasquirt not receiving a cranking signal whenits turning over?
Thanks!


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

BTW. i ended up with the GM CLT sensor, i took my weird waterneck and a digifant 2 blank from the bottom of the stock front waterneck... cut off the top portion of it... threaded the plastic for it with a npt 3/8 tap... and drilled a hole in the bottom with a 3/8 bit and screwed the gm sensor in..used the stock o-ring and the put some silicone on the threads etc







YAY hopefully it doesnt burn my eyes out..haha
for the IAT sensor i took a 2.25" ? inch pvc, tapped it again with the 3/8" tap and screwed the IAT into it... woohoo! i used the motronic boot and my digi2 air meter sliced boot for this.. i will get some pics.


----------



## Knappsterx (Feb 18, 2003)

*Re: (mxman)*

Quick question: RS-autosport assembled kit.
In the options it lists stock, with hall input, and an option for vw hall distributor...is it wired for 5v reference instead of 12v? or is it just a reason to charge an extra $20?
Thanks.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (Knappsterx)*

I finally got a datalog of my car idling at 2500 or so. Looks like the TPS is getting a signal randomly? I have acceleration enrichments off, but does MS still compensate for TPS signal as well as MAP? 








Note that I blipped the throttle once near the middle there. The rest is the engine "idling".


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

looks like you might have some noise on that line...
whats the tps position say when youre just idling if you open up the realtime display in MT


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Pretty sure its 32. Megalogger records all of that. 
Any ideas on where this "noise" is comming from? Or why it just cropped out of nowhere? I'm trying to pin down what could be interfering with it. I can't really figure out how to recreate the problem, so I can't really narrow it down yet. 
I'm wondering though, could noise on the line cause the motor to accelerate on its own? Even if the throttle bodies are not opened? I'm noticing that while its idling high, the MAP is well below normal idle map, and the spark is way advanced. Could this suggest that the engine is indeed accelerating without extra air? 
I'm pretty sure I have AE's off competely. Both tables on the enrichments page are all set to 0. It seems to do this on either Map or TPS controlled AE's, but either way, they are all set to 0.










_Modified by KingofNod at 9:58 PM 5-25-2006_


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_
I'm wondering though, could noise on the line cause the motor to accelerate on its own? Even if the throttle bodies are not opened? 

no, the only thing it uses that tps signal for in speed-density is accel enrichments.
if you were running alpha-n, itd be a different story.
the engine will start accelerating if it hits more advanced parts of the spark table...it sounds though like you have a vacuum leak. you _need_ some accel enrichments, this could be the cause of some of your bucking issues that i seem to remember reading about. also, use tpsdot accel control, leave the map ones all to 0, makes it easy to just switch to those for tuning the VE table...having them all at 0.
noise on that line is caused from electrical interference...anything putting off some crazy magnetic signals near your tps?...


_Modified by ValveCoverGasket at 3:03 AM 5-26-2006_


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

I would say vacuum leak as well, but a few things concern me. 
If it was a leak, wouldn't the MAP go UP during this period? As if I was hitting the throttle? It drops down to mid 20's when its idling high, and the spark shoots up to like 27. 
Also, if it was a leak, why would it occur randomly, then return to normal? Anything on the 16v that uses vacuum intermittantly on the 16v that I should be looking for? 
And would a leak show up as a TPS input? Clearly MS is getting a TPS input when there is no input. 


_Modified by KingofNod at 9:59 AM 5-26-2006_


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Alright, turns out that there is a good chance that my problem was indeed the idle stop screw thing. I witnessed it turn several times with the vibration of the motor reving, because I didn't have the nut hooked up correctly. I'm hoping it was that simple, but who knows. 
Can someone with a pretty close to stock 9A post up their Acceleration enrichment bins, threshold, and all that good stuff for the TPS?


----------



## ACEdubs (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_
Can someone with a pretty close to stock 9A post up their Acceleration enrichment bins, threshold, and all that good stuff for the TPS? 

I could use that too


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

for accel enrichment id start with 2v = 1ms, 3.9v = 1.5ms, 8v = 2ms, 15.1 = 2.1ms...thats fairly standard, and see where that gets you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
a vacuum leak and tps input are two different things, it wouldnt show up as an input if there was a vacuum leak, but it sounds like you tracked down the problem....we had that same issue on a buddy's poly mounted big cam 8v...it would rattle everything loose. get some loctite and call it a day








the idea behind the accel enrichment is if you snap the throttle and it bucks, see which accel bin its hitting, and richen that bin up. if you snap the throttle and it bogs, lean that bin out. this is assuming your ve and spark are pretty close


_Modified by ValveCoverGasket at 1:35 PM 5-26-2006_


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## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

its been my experience that the 2.0-16v is seriously lacking in balance!!
stuff vibrates loose everywhere even with stock mounts. Waterpump housing bolts break on a regular basis.... Loctite isnt a real fix but it helps.
We built one for my son and i did a knife edge light & balanced crank + a lightened flywheel - its baby butt smooth!! Huge difference to my other GLI's


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## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

Ok guys. Those of us who have PWM idle control. Let's try to work this out. I'm having a hell of a time getting this thing to idle the way I want it too. Even cold starts are a bit of a pain.
I've DL'd the most recent code 029q2.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

What about the TPSdot Threshold? Thats the value that tells AE's to kick in at a certain TPS signal, right? Where should I have that set? Right now its aroud .98 or so.


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## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Mine is set at 2.
oh, and BTW, my ISV is LOUD! Sounds like a fog horn. 


_Modified by cdn20VALVE at 4:17 PM 5-27-2006_


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_What about the TPSdot Threshold? Thats the value that tells AE's to kick in at a certain TPS signal, right? Where should I have that set? Right now its aroud .98 or so. 

that should be fine, i havent noticed a significant difference between 1.9 and .98 on my car


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Here goes guys. MY ISV settings for PWM cosed loop idle control. It's a 2-wire VDO valve from DIGI II.
I have to admit my car idles rock steady. I'm very happy with the idle.


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

So you found a way to make the stock VW ISV' work? Was there any special code you had to implement? I have my old Motronic one laying around, and wouldn't mind trying to get that to work. How did you wire it up? Through the FIdle wire in the MS harness?


_Modified by KingofNod at 9:38 AM 5-29-2006_


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

The motronic one is a 3 wire valve I believe. It's easier to use a 2-wire valve from what I've read.
It's wired through Fiddle wire. pin30.
I'm using code 029q2.


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

does anyone here have an extra, good, no longer used 16v fpr laying around?
im trying to get this 1.8-16v to run right and cant think of anything else left that it could be....and i have no tester for the cis-e fuel pressure


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## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

Ohio, what is your set up and what seems to be the problem...?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_ Through the FIdle wire in the MS harness?


are you driving your spark through the fidle wire already?


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

I think my Fidle wire is just dangling somehwere unused.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Get your fiddle up and running. Good Idle = Happy dubber.


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

Subscribed


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

Where did you get that code, and how do you use it? Do you just download it, and place it in the mtCfg folder?


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

OMFG, megasquirt 2 working with the v3, stock coil vb921 if anybody has questions [email protected] or mxmang on aim... holy crap, it runs so much better than digi2 i think i will go throw the ecu across the room! 
btw, green and white = tps signal even if bosch / vw decides to switch the pinouts in the factory under the boot... . i thought i fried my hall!
Anywho, you need a 1k ohm resistor to get the stock coil going, jumper xg1 to xg2, use the two jumpers it mentions for the stock hall in the megamanual... s5 for coil negative (pin 36) and tach/pin24 for the coil negative, you can use your factory wiring for hte positive side of hte coil or run it off of the fuel pump circuit with a 10 amp relay... which is what i did... but ya, i will get this B__tch tuned and post some stuff!


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Msns-e FAQ --> Download latest code. 
You need to follow firmware update directions that come with the zip file. If your already usng an MSnS code it's pretty easy. If your updating from basic MS you need to enable the ootloaded on the MS board. Still easy but a bit more work. 



_Modified by cdn20VALVE at 11:14 AM 5-30-2006_


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_OMFG, megasquirt 2 working with the v3, stock coil vb921 if anybody has questions [email protected] or mxmang on aim... holy crap, it runs so much better than digi2 i think i will go throw the ecu across the room! 
btw, green and white = tps signal even if bosch / vw decides to switch the pinouts in the factory under the boot... . i thought i fried my hall!
Anywho, you need a 1k ohm resistor to get the stock coil going, jumper xg1 to xg2, use the two jumpers it mentions for the stock hall in the megamanual... s5 for coil negative (pin 36) and tach/pin24 for the coil negative, you can use your factory wiring for hte positive side of hte coil or run it off of the fuel pump circuit with a 10 amp relay... which is what i did... but ya, i will get this B__tch tuned and post some stuff!









No Doubt about it. Glad you got it working.
DIGI II is the Ulimate ****tiest EFI system out there. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
I should show you guys what I did with my DIGI II ECU when I was done with it. Too bad I didn't take a pic. I took a 12 inch long punch and a HUGE hammer and hit the punch right through the ECU. I then held the punch in my hand with the ECU on it up in the air and condemmed the damn thing to hell.
My neighbours must have thought I was crazy.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

i might keep mine incase it wont statr in -40, honestly though... lovre how much did you have to turn your distributor to get yoru car started ? i had to turn my dist all the way retarded to get it running... and the ve tables to 0 advance... i will play with the trigger angle dealio in megatune later tonight if i get a chance... 
yea, my car would sit idling before with digi2, the engine sounding like i had 276's in my valvetrain and it was running on carbs or something, now it idles like a honda civic or something.. lol i cant wait to tune it lovre!


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (mxman)*

Can someone give me a quick overveiw about Spark map tuning? Right now I'm using someone elses pre-generated spark map, and it actually runs very well. However, their car isn't exactly like mine, and I feel that I may be able to squeeze a little more power out by fine tuning. I've got the fuel looking pretty good at this point. Maybe a tad rich to be safe, but not by that much. 
Do the lower number means the closer it is to the fixed angle? For max power, would I want higher numbers, or numbers as low as possible before hearing knocking? Is there any general rules of thumb associated with spark tuning? 
Heres the map I'm running that I took from the SEM/Carb forum thread:










_Modified by KingofNod at 9:30 AM 6-1-2006_


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_..........

Yes MS is the bomb. Noyou shouldn't have to have your dizzy turned all the way to get it started. Please share your your MS spark settings.
Do you have an adj timing light? I bought mine from Princess AUto for 45.00. It really helps you nail down the base ignition. and the timing as per MidnightGLI's directions.


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_ .....
_Modified by KingofNod at 9:30 AM 6-1-2006_

Do you have a knock sensor hooked up to MS? This is the most important thing as it allows you to run a more aggressive timing map.
If you don't have a Kknock Sensor you need to tune it for most seat of the pants power without Pinging.
If you have a Knock sensor you can get away with more timing advance, and have greater safety margins in doing so. I installed Boris's Knocksense MS, and I'm very happy with it, $85.00 I believe afer S&H and taxes...
I'm also using the factory 16 Ignition MAP that was posted somehwere on vortex. I can't remember now though. From memory it looks really close to what you have! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Just remember that the factory used a Knocksensor. So if your going to use that map, you may want to consider one.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

Is there a way to use the VW knock sensors in MS? I've got two brand new ones laying around.......I would still need some kind of knock box though, right? MS doesn't have all that built in does it?


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_
Do the lower number means the closer it is to the fixed angle?

You're fixed angle should be set to -10 to use your map. If your ign timing is set up correctly, the number in your map should be accurate, ie at idle, using your map, your actual ign timing should be 10 deg, and WOT should be 26.
as for tuning, I have yet to start mine







but the more advance (higher number) the more power. I remember reading as a guideline increase until you hear it knock, then back off a couple degrees. obviously if you have a knock box you don't need to back off any.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_Is there a way to use the VW knock sensors in MS? I've got two brand new ones laying around.......I would still need some kind of knock box though, right? MS doesn't have all that built in does it? 

I havent gotten a VW knock sensor working with MS, but I am sure someone has. 
I just ordered knocksense the other day for a V3 MSII unit. MSII and MSnS-E can interpret a knock sensor, however only MSnS-E can use it to retard ignition timing. MSII does not have that in the code yet. The knock sensor we are using with the knocksense kit is the GM one recommended on the megasquirt site.
Hope that helps


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

KnocksenseMS recommends the volvo knock sensor. It's a two wire. And it wokds great.


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

Does anyone have a basic setup for a 16v? I am about to start my install and have idea what i am doing. So if someone has a baseline I would appreciate it.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (sciroccoracer)*

What do you need bud?
Base maps?


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

Yes. I havnt even installed the computer yet but will in a couple of days. Im looking for something that will allow the engine to run. I am only doing fuel. v2.2. My engine is a bit modified.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (sciroccoracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciroccoracer* »_Yes. I havnt even installed the computer yet but will in a couple of days. Im looking for something that will allow the engine to run. I am only doing fuel. v2.2. My engine is a bit modified. 

An 8x8 VE map is available on the first page of this thread. It was for a V2.2 fuel only setup and it is tuned very well. Once you get your required fuel value to work well with that map, the car should be very close to where it needs to be. The top end of the table might need a little work if you have cams.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Just wanted to let you folks know, the car is running and im driving it around with the msII.... i still need to nail down the base timing (dizzy position) i wonder if i have enough or too much dwell... 
right now i have dwell at 3 or 3.5 
The trigger offset is like 8 degrees.
Right now, i can rev it free in neutral and it revs fine and clean but when I load the engine, say...50-60 kpa, it starts to misfire, it isn't pinging from what I hear. I have a feeling it doesn't have enough timing to burn the fuel, maybe it has a bit too much or the dwell is wrong. Some help would be greatly appreciated








I made a TPS out of the stock 16v tbody, i welded a solid piece of wire on a washer which i epoxied onto the stock tblade nut. And chopped up a $2 radioshack pot... lol... one broke cause it was too tall and hit the hood, after a small trim on the inside sheet metal it works awesome. I will swap this unit out for another brand pot .. a weatherproof one soon hopefully since winter is coming, haha.
Anybody have this hilarious squeal when they open their primary butterfly on the tbody? My car makes this squeal and everyone stares at me like my cars going to explode, it's friggin hilarious! My map sensor sits around 25kpa at idle... nice n low.


----------



## MK1SRocc (Jan 7, 2003)

*V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps*

I;m sure someone else has done this already, but I figured I'd share how I duplicated the VB921 circut from V3 on the V2.2 board. Now I don't need the Bosch Ignition Module.
*Step One*
On top of the board the pins of the VB921 are jumpered to:
1 - the right side of R25 with 330 ohm resistor in line(to CPU)
2 - JP7 (ground)
3 - to X13 (coil signal out)








*Step Two*
The Jumpers on the bottom of the board are following MidnightGLI's diagram. JP8 to Pin24 (5v out to the hall) and XG1 to X11 (hall signal back in).
X13 to Pin29 is for the coil signal. The VB921 has a higher current than the origional trace could stand.








*Step Three*
Attach the VB921 to the top of the case.
That's it.

Here's how the circut and wiring looks:


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (86JettaWolfsburg)*

great information http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Are there any benefits to using the driver as opposed to the Bosch ICM?


----------



## MK1SRocc (Jan 7, 2003)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (DGruber58)*

With one coil the advantage is cleaner wiring mostly, a few less connections to make.
The biggest advantage will come for anyone wanting to run more than one coil. Like a coil on plug wasted spark setup. You can add circuts and VB921's as desired. 
That's going to be my next project. CBR 900 coil packs.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (86JettaWolfsburg)*

Hey guys, just to keep everyone up to date. Looks like I blew my LC-I wideband controller. I did not install a resisitor in line with the analog output. I thought I had a newer one that has the protection built in, since I just received it recently. I guess not though. 
I've emailed innovative for repair/repalcement.
If you have an LC-1, make sure to add the resistor in line.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (cdn20VALVE)*

I am going to install an LC-1 today, and I had not read anywhere about a resistor. What size resistor are you suppposed to install and where does it say this in the instructions???


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (GTIMan82)*

That is the problem. It doens't say it in the instructions.








However...
http://www.innovatemotorsports...istor


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (cdn20VALVE)*

Thanks for the info on the resistor. I dont want to fry my LC-1. 
Martyn's ignition map is pretty much spot on, it had a small ping for me up high. Prolly that lovely 100 octane british fuel they have.
I am using ethanol blended 94 octane. 
For an easy way to start your car on ms2, set your dizzy to almost full retard for the first start... set youer ignition map blank with 18 degrees of advance down low, set your cold enrichment at around 150, and then change the trigger offset to 30 or 35 and it shuold fire right up almost spot on, then set your dwell.. prolly about 3-3.5ms and use martyn's tables. Should be pretty close. I will do some datalogging later!
Anybody know if auto coils performance deteriorate over time? (aka the stock bosch one)


_Modified by mxman at 8:04 PM 6-8-2006_


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (mxman)*

Can someone take a screenshot, or post up all of their ASE's? I'm pretty sure my problem must lie there with my cold start issues. Either I don't have them turned on correctly, or they aren't set right. I just want to see someone else's working setup for an example. I've posted up my MSQ on the MSNS-E forums for people to look at to try an help. 
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=19585
Thanks.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (KingofNod)*

In Ms2 I think i am using 150 at 50 and 70 celcius.. ignition advance is also important ... make sure you have a bin with 500 rpm or soemthing and put 18 degrees of advance up to like 50 kpa


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (KingofNod)*

Another quick question. Can you guys show me your ISV, or at least your cold start injector blockoff plates? I have a vacuum leak comming from behind mine. Does anyone make a custom one? 
Also, I'm still working on getting my AE's down. I have the lowest bin setup well, as in at hardly any throttle it doesn't stumble much anymore. However, now, if I go WOT, the car stumbles and feels very weak for a second or two (a critical second or two), then goes back to normal. I had my VE's set perfectly with no AE's at WOT, so I'm guessing the AE's are giving too much fuel and richening it too much until they go away? Can I back off my higher bins? 


_Modified by KingofNod at 2:28 PM 6-10-2006_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_Another quick question. Can you guys show me your ISV, or at least your cold start injector blockoff plates? I have a vacuum leak comming from behind mine. Does anyone make a custom one? 
Also, I'm still working on getting my AE's down. I have the lowest bin setup well, as in at hardly any throttle it doesn't stumble much anymore. However, now, if I go WOT, the car stumbles and feels very weak for a second or two (a critical second or two), then goes back to normal. I had my VE's set perfectly with no AE's at WOT, so I'm guessing the AE's are giving too much fuel and richening it too much until they go away? Can I back off my higher bins? 

_Modified by KingofNod at 2:28 PM 6-10-2006_

For the cold start injector block off plate I used a piece of 12 gauge sheet metal I had laying around and drilled/grinded it to fit. Then I cut a piece of gasket material to fit that and bolted it in place. No leaks.
The AE's I have set on the first post of this thread worked best for me, is that what you started out with? Also take a look at the accel time... mine is only .2 and it works fine. In other words, dont be afraid to go lower.


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (GTIMan82)*

^^^ i did the same for my cold start hole, cept i drilled/tapped the center of it and put a nipple there for a vacuum source. 
def use universal gasket material, it can be had at most hardware or auto parts stores.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (NJRrado)*

So boys, car seems to be working pretty well, no tachometer as of yet. Runnin ms2 of course.. anything you need to know wiring wise that might help me along to getting this to work ? I am shooting 12v through the hall effect coming from a switched 12v grounding to the body. Anybody have any suggestions on how to get this working







?


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## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (mxman)*

if youre using the stock coil, there should be a single red wire, 20gauge I believe, that connects to the coil neg(-).








In this picture, you can see the black connector beneath my throttle cable.
I believe that is the tach wire.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

reading all this starts to worry me









i'm about to convert my 1.8GL 8v to a 1.8 16v KR engine using MS'n'E..
Running dizzy with hall and standard coil..

makes me wonder if i'm ever going to make this run!

The things i've got so far is:
MS II v3
Innovate LC-1 WB 02sensor
Passat auto 16c Throttle body
The 16v engine
IAT sensor
Corrado G60 injectors
BBM fuelrail
Bosh 3.5bar FPR

do i need more? guess i'm going to use the standard tempsensors on the motor and such..

all i know that i'm missing is the Cooland hoses (all of them), and the alternator adjusting bracket
Regards from norway
- Dan


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

Well, if you are running a MS II v3 board, you cant run MSnS-E (megasquirt n spark - extra) But I think you meant you were going to use MSII with Spark.
If you take things one step at a time you will be fine. The unkown pieces of the puzzle can be explored as you go. 

-
-
I want to get a "settings" page or something put together so everyone can compare how particular engines are setup in MS. However. HOW in the heck do you display all that info in one place. Make a cool flash scroll over display system? .... if I didnt work maybe... I dont know, megatune is not designed to display all the different settings at once. But it would be nice if we could get them up so that people could compare/discuss.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_Well, if you are running a MS II v3 board, you cant run MSnS-E (megasquirt n spark - extra) But I think you meant you were going to use MSII with Spark.



hmm... you know where i find the code for msII spark?
thought i had to use the MSnS-E code


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

MS II Actually has spark built in. The only thing you have to do is make sure the MSII V3 board is configured for a Hall sensor and configured to control the coil directly.
I take it you purchased an already assembled unit? 
Well you may or may not have been overwhelmed yet. Your first post sounds like you may feel that way! IF you do, dont worry yet... again 1 step at a time / solving 1 problem at a time makes this an easy project.

If so, you may want to follow a few of the steps in the V3 assembly guide
Mainly:
1)Check for or just download the latest MSII code on the processor and then download the latest version of Megatune.
2)Make sure the hall sensor ignition circuit is "jumpered" correctly. (Step 52 in the assembly guide)
Also, some of the instructions on using megatune with MSII are available Here-configuring MSII
All of those links are on the left side of the megasquirt site.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

I'm already done my ms2 16v, so ask me whatever you want.








So, gruber, which car do you have? (Make model and trim leve) So i can find it in my bentley. I don't think i have anything like that
I am a former digi 2 8v guy...







now ms2 16v....
So using the stock wiring for the coil is essential for the tach eh.. damnit.. I will check that later and see if it works. I wonder if its partially cause im using a 12v source switched on the ignition for the hall effect, not the factory wiring... hmmm I am kind of sick of no tachometer, even though i know my engine speeds by rpm, but it is nice.
My digi2 car had the two wires going to the negative side of the coil. 
Both red, one to the ecu, one to the interior harness, the interior wire must be the tacho wire. 
I will keep you posted !


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_MS II Actually has spark built in. The only thing you have to do is make sure the MSII V3 board is configured for a Hall sensor and configured to control the coil directly.
I take it you purchased an already assembled unit? 
Well you may or may not have been overwhelmed yet. Your first post sounds like you may feel that way! IF you do, dont worry yet... again 1 step at a time / solving 1 problem at a time makes this an easy project.

If so, you may want to follow a few of the steps in the V3 assembly guide
Mainly:
1)Check for or just download the latest MSII code on the processor and then download the latest version of Megatune.
2)Make sure the hall sensor ignition circuit is "jumpered" correctly. (Step 52 in the assembly guide)
Also, some of the instructions on using megatune with MSII are available Here-configuring MSII
All of those links are on the left side of the megasquirt site. 


Thanks.. i didn't get the preassebled one! did that one myself








hopefully i will manage.. but there isn't much that can be done without the rest of the parts needed


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

I thought i would just throw my MSII thoughts into this post.
For my CLT temp sensor, i took a digifant 2 waterneck plug, VW P/N : 357121140 hacksawed the top off of it, took that flange, a 3/8" npt tap and tapped threads in it. I used RTV on the threads. Then i filed the head slightly to make it fit in my waterneck with 1 sensor that bolts to the side of my head.








For the IAT, I used the motronic boot and put a piece of pvc. I drilled and tapped a 3/8" npt hole in there as well. 
For the TPS, i went to radioshack and bought a potentiometer, 10k ohm pot. I Sliced it to length and notched it. Then i welded a piece of wire across a washer adn epoxied that across the throttle body nut. 
For ignition with stock coil and the IGBT onboard ignitor :
Jumper IGBTIN (near the heat sink side of the DB37 on the bottom of the board) to JS10 (under the 40-pin CPU socket on the bottom of the PCB) 
Then
IGBTOUT to IGN - near the Heat sink end of the DB37 on the bottom of the PCB (this brings the ignition control signal out on DB37 pin #36) 
Make sure XG1-XG2 is jumpered.








For a switched 12 volts for the relayboard and other sensors i just used the black with yellow striped wire on my Canadian 1990 Jetta 8v digi2 car. This was up in the drip tray where the stock ECU was. Yours might be different. 
-Wire your hall sensor signal wire (green with white stripe) or center terminal to the pin 24 on the db37, or TACH on the relay board. The other two wires, (red and black stripe, and brown / white stripe) Connect a switched 12v source to the hall + and connect the - to ground. 
-For my install i used a 1k pullup resistor (1/4 ohm) This was installed across the hall +12v source switched and the hall signal lead. This will get you an rpm signal in megatune. (I think you use the stock red coil wire)
I used the stock coil wiring for powering the coil, but you should use a 10 amp fuse and run it off of the fuel pump circuit on the relay board or tap into the stock setup.
For my fuel pump wiring, i took a large spade connector and removed my stock fuel pump relay, I used the relay board to turn on my fuel pump on the hot terminal. It's a spade connector on the left hand side | shaped not -- shaped check this with a test light. 
Basically all the other wiring is easy from there. Message me if you have questions.


_Modified by mxman at 10:58 PM 6-13-2006_


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_I'm already done my ms2 16v, so ask me whatever you want.








So, gruber, which car do you have? (Make model and trim leve) So i can find it in my bentley. I don't think i have anything like that
I am a former digi 2 8v guy...







now ms2 16v....
So using the stock wiring for the coil is essential for the tach eh.. damnit.. I will check that later and see if it works. I wonder if its partially cause im using a 12v source switched on the ignition for the hall effect, not the factory wiring... hmmm I am kind of sick of no tachometer, even though i know my engine speeds by rpm, but it is nice.
My digi2 car had the two wires going to the negative side of the coil. 
Both red, one to the ecu, one to the interior harness, the interior wire must be the tacho wire. 
I will keep you posted !









I have a 2.0 16v 9a in a 91 jetta gli. IIRC, all mkII's use the same ignition coil, but certain models (like mine) have a power stage, which I removed. I don't have my bentley handy, but I know there are some great diagrams of the various ignition systems. You said there were two wires to the coil neg, I'm betting the one going to the interior was your tach. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

word, i will try it after work...
OK, just for your reference, the stock digi2 connector for the negative side of the coil goes to the ECU and the other to the tach. My tach is working again !








FYI as well, make sure you add cold ignition advance timing if you are using the IGBT ms v3 ignition driver to control spark. Start out with around 20 degrees at -40* and go up to around 0 at 71* C








Anybody a wiz with acceleration enrichment? Currently I have my slider in TPS VS MAP halfway. When it just gets out of WUE or close to it... my motor starts falling off a bit when trying to accelrate at low rpm, any suggestions? Also, the engine seems to be bucking about a bit. Any clues?







THX


_Modified by mxman at 8:15 PM 6-16-2006_


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

just another question for you MS guru's









On my Passat 16v auto TB, there are 2x 3pin sockets.. one is black, and the other is yellowish white..
do i need to use both of them?
oh.. and i feel like ranting aswell! can't load any code into my MS







i simply cannot make the computer contact the MS unit..

well.. blah.. or BLÆH as we would say here in norway


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

On the Passat Auto TB there the 2 connectors are for the TPS and the other is for the Idle and Full throttle switch. You only need to connect the TPS. 
Also, if you cant make the computer contact the MS unit, follow the steps in the V3 assembly guide on how to diagnose or backtrack that circuit.


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

Hey guys, almost done wiring my MSI v3 setup but im stuck at the TPS wiring... There are 3 wires, which wire has to go where on the board?? Does the middle wire go to TPS, then 1 to TPS RET and then 1 to a ground?? Is thats right, then which wires are which? Any help would be awesome! Thanks guys!


----------



## ACEdubs (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SweetSixteen* »_Hey guys, almost done wiring my MSI v3 setup but im stuck at the TPS wiring... There are 3 wires, which wire has to go where on the board?? Does the middle wire go to TPS, then 1 to TPS RET and then 1 to a ground?? Is thats right, then which wires are which? Any help would be awesome! Thanks guys! 

OH! I have the same question. The TPS connector on mine has broken off. I have the 3 wires to work with.


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

hrmph.. getting frustrated now... my fuel pump primed once and now it wont turn on again... Its working hard wired from the battery... I am not getting any power to the FP wire on the relay board anymore... the fuse is fine... the relay is good... This was a RS autosport board so the wiring should be good aswell... Anyone have any ideas on where I should start looking?


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

if the relay for the fuel pump is hard wired it should run all the time. if thats what you meant by hard wired?


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

no I meant when I hard wire it to the battery it works... it works when I put the power wire against the 12v on the relay board aswell... I think the relay board is messed up. I just yanked out all the wiring and im going to wire it without the relay board. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

The fuel pump primes for 2-3 seconds when MS gets power. It will only fun after that if MS has a tach signal (the engine is turning over)... dont know if that helps


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

damn, to late to go back now and check that out, I already cut apart the relay harness to make the full harness... Can I run seperate signal wires from the injectors to Pins 32, 33, and 34, 35 instead of going 2 wires into 1 then back into 2, like it suggests in the wiring diagram?? I already have my lines run like this from the relay board setup and it would make things alot easier... Any insight would be awesome! Thanks guys for the help so far!


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

Also, which relays am I supposed to be using when I make the full harness?? Can I take the ones off the relay board and use those or am I supposed to be using the factory ones from the fuse block??


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

use whichever relays you want as long as the power to the main power to the ecu/injectors/coil is relayed and fused and the fuel pump power is relayed and fused....
as mentioned above, fuel pump primes then runs once the engine is running if you have it controlled by megasquirt.
it doesnt matter how you run the injector wires...as long as one pin gets power and one pin gets signal on each injector, and the signal wires are wired to the proper injectors if youre using both drivers...


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

cool, thanks man! I was getting a little bit overwhelmed after wiring the relay board all day yesterday, "thinking" it was a problem with the board, snipping my db37 connector off, then realizing there was no problem.. lol ah well I have the full harness 3/4 done, so I will just finish it up this way! Thanks again guys! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SweetSixteen* »_Hey guys, almost done wiring my MSI v3 setup but im stuck at the TPS wiring... There are 3 wires, which wire has to go where on the board?? Does the middle wire go to TPS, then 1 to TPS RET and then 1 to a ground?? Is thats right, then which wires are which? Any help would be awesome! Thanks guys!


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

TPS= http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mwire.htm#tps


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

well.. i'm flooding this post with questions









anyways.. the injectors.. 

is it not possible to controll all 4 induvidually?

or do i have to connect them as a pair

shooting 1 and 4 at the same time and 2 and 3 at the same time?

stupid question, and the english sux.. but, as long as you understand









Regards

Dan


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weejunGL* »_well.. i'm flooding this post with questions









anyways.. the injectors.. 

is it not possible to controll all 4 induvidually?

or do i have to connect them as a pair

shooting 1 and 4 at the same time and 2 and 3 at the same time?

stupid question, and the english sux.. but, as long as you understand









Regards

Dan

You can control 2 banks of injectors as far as I know. I really don't see the advantage of having all 4 on individual banks. Since 1 and 4 are very close to TDC at the same time anyway. Currently, I have mine all one 1 bank. Of course, that means I also have to be firing all injectors at the same time, meaning I'm spraying fuel in all the cylinders all the time, and thats kind of a waste.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Has anyone here tried the MAP based AE's? I can't get TPS AE's to work for the life of me, and I drive around with NO AE's, because its smoother without them. However, launches/starts from lights, etc, are difficult, because at a very low throttle input, the AFR leans out a ton, and the car bogs. Combine that with load from letting the clutch out, and it will stall everytime, unless I roast the clutch by revving it higher. I really don't know where to start, becuase for all I know, it could be either going so rich its reading lean, or actually leaning out. 
On the TPS side of the AE's, when I hit the throttle, the little bar barely moves at all. However, the TPS guage in realtime display shows the TPS movement perfectly. With the AE's on TPS, when I floor it, or give it a large input, it bucks horribly a few times while accelerating. With AE's totally off, it accelerates perfectly everytime. Its just that shifting and launches are tough.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Have you tried the TPS AE's pictured in the first page of this post??? I know the new version of megatune has %/sec instead of V/sec but you should be able to match up the values. A 4 cylinder NA motor does not need much accel enrichment.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (weejunGL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weejunGL* »_
is it not possible to controll all 4 induvidually?


Not with MSII, but ultra megasquirt can. Ultra megasquirt is a long time from coming out.

_Quote, originally posted by *weejunGL* »_
or do i have to connect them as a pair
shooting 1 and 4 at the same time and 2 and 3 at the same time?


As stated above, you can connect them all together and select "simultaneous" in megatune.
Or you can shoot 1 and 4 on one injector output , and 2 and 3 on the other injector output. Select "alternating" in megatune. I have had megasquirt working both ways, and have ended up just using the alternating style. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_Have you tried the TPS AE's pictured in the first page of this post??? I know the new version of megatune has %/sec instead of V/sec but you should be able to match up the values. A 4 cylinder NA motor does not need much accel enrichment.

Yeah, those are the ones that gave me such poor performance. I tried making them higher with no luck.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Go lower, not higher http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I was running pretty small injectors (Digi 2 19#) so those values may be too much for higher flow injectors.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Regarding alternating injectors:
I am currently tunning alternating injectors. 
Band 1,2 fire together, and bank 3,4 fire together.
Car runs really smooth. 
However, i started thinking about it and wrote this down.
Firing Order 
1--3--4--2
I--E--P--C
C--I--E--P
P--C---I--E
E--P--C--I
(I)ntake, (C)ompression, (P)ower, (E)xhaust
So from the looks of it banks 1,3 and banks 2,4 should be together.
I might be able to make my car run even better.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

bump for a new daddy!








My car has a violent miss, i think my timing is advanced too much around 40kpa...








Got the idle down to around 900 rpm when slightly warm with some ignition advance... gotta get er starting turn key. Anyone have any other recommendations other than fattening up the VE ?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

Fairly sure that on an alternating setup for a 4 cylinder injectors 1&4(A) and 2&3(B) should be tied together. 
Then you woud have 1A, 3B, 4A, 2B. Interesting that it ran smooth the other way.... 
OH and congrats to a new Daddy!!! I got one in the oven right now and am both scared and very excited!










_Modified by GTIMan82 at 9:03 AM 6-27-2006_


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_Go lower, not higher http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I was running pretty small injectors (Digi 2 19#) so those values may be too much for higher flow injectors.

I'm only on digi I injectors, maybe around 21#? I'll play with them again when I get time. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Thanks guys!! It is really exciting being a new Dad. Having a baby is the best thing ever.
Back to MS though.







From my calculations, would you not want the injectors to squirt just before the intake stroke? In which case my proposed set-up would run best. No?
Edit, did more thinkin, and I'm wrong. GTIman is right,











_Modified by cdn20VALVE at 1:17 PM 6-27-2006_


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

Oh yeah... As some of you know my LC-1 Wideband got fried since I did not add a resistor in line to the analog wire. 
Anyways I sent the Controller to INnovative for warranty, and it seems that USPS has misplaced my item!!!!!!!








So now my car has been sitting in the driveway since June 10th. Patiently waiting for the replacement controller, but as of yet, innovative has not even received my failed unit.
Oh well, things could be worse I guess. Atleast I got insurance on the shipment. But the money will probably take forever to get back to me.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdn20VALVE* »_Oh yeah... As some of you know my LC-1 Wideband got fried since I did not add a resistor in line to the analog wire. 


Mad the same mistake. I strongly advise running that 470ohm resistor inline with the LC1 Wideband to anyone who isn't.


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

hey guys, I just finished 90% of my harness but I am not getting any power to the megasquirt box... I have power at both relays (main, fuel pump) but the fuel pump does not turn on and the megasquirt does not power up... the only things not hooked up are the TPS, Negative to the coil wire and the air intake sensor... should the megasquirt at least power up without these connections?? also where should I start looking to diagnose the problem? Also do I have to do something to the megasquirt unit before I run it for the first time??


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

Where is your 12v power source to the MS ECU connected too? You probably just have it hooked to the wrong wire. Be sure to have your grounds nice and tight first. Also, when running power to your ECU, make sure its a place that gets power BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER cranking. Many places on the car only get power after or before, but shut down during cranking. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

my power is coming from the thick red wire on the fusebox ('90 golf) and my 12v switched is coming from the yellow/black defrost switch. When I turn the key over, my fuel pump relay clicks and there is constant power where it should be... No lights come on my megasquirt unit and I cant find anything on my COM3 where its connected in megatune... hrmph..







Was I supposed to flash the unit or anything like that?! this is a first time installation..


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

Also, my battery is located in the trunk... should I maybe run the 12v constant right off the starter instead of the big red wire on the fuse panel?


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

ah.. okay I think I overlooked something... Where should the power wire on the ignition be ran to?? I ran the switched 12v off of the defrost switched 12v wire and it seems to be working good, but I dont think I ran a ignition power wire, that I circled in the picture...


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

Okay I just went and checked my wiring... I have the 12v source coming off the thick red wire on the fuse box to the 20amp fuse, then to the relays. I dont have the red wire coming from the 12v source to the ignition. I think this is my problem. Where do I solder in that wire?? Also for the yellow wire in the diagram I dont have it coming off the ignition itself, just a switched 12v source... is that okay?? Any insight would be awesome! Thanks guys! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

yeah, it needs to see battery power and switched power in order for the relay to go.
if its a first time install the ecu needs to be flashed, and code needs to be loaded to it....so you wont see anything in megatune until youve done this (unless it came from wherever you bought it already flashed)
either way, during normal power up with the "stock" settings none of the lights on the ecu will flash, so dont take that as a sign of it not working


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

okay cool... How do I "flash" the ecu?? When pulling the 12v constant off the thick red wire on the fuse panel which is always live, do I still need to run a wire from before the fuse to the ignition somewhere?? My relays are turning on but im also not getting power to my fuel pump... The only wire I am missing is the that red one but I have no idea what I should tap into for that...


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

okay nevermind about the flashing... I checked where I bought it and it was flashed with the v.3 code... My problem must be a power problem somewhere...


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

theres no such thing as v3 code...
its MS1, MSnS-e, etc.
you need to get firmware from online and use the boot jumper to flash it.
its all on megasquirt.info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

okay I just found it, thanks bro!







but as for wiring... On the diagram it shows the wires coming from the picture of the ignition... Where should I be tapping those from?? The actual ignition switch or what?? I tapped into switched 12v defrost wire for the yellow and I tapped the 12v constant from the thick red wire on the fuse box.. I dont have the red wire running back to the picture of the ignition in the diagram...


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

okay, I tapped into the switched 12v and constant 12v right at the ignition and nothing changed... The main relay clicks on when I turn the key to accessory and my fuel pump relay does not click and the fuel pump does not prime, but there is power distributed where its supposed to be... When I fire up Megatune, the screen stays pink and no gauges etc move.... Does anyone have any suggestions?? I am out of luck and there is nowone in the area who is willing or knows how to help me.. ANYTHING you can think of...


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

let me restate what i said earlier....
if your ecu hasnt been flashed, you need to flash it. yours hasnt been flashed
go find the MSnS -e website and download the code. follow those directions. then come back.
the fuel pump priming, megatune displaying anything, etc all require there to be firmware on the ecu.
go do this, then come back


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

It was flashed with MS1, I got a email from the guy who made it... But alas, I touched pin37 with a wire straight off the battery to see if my issue was power and the MS unit sizzled and smoked badly...







Thanks for the help though guys, to bad I couldnt get it running...


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

is 37 one of the grounds, or a 12v power feed?
either way, try checking the MOV, and the voltage across the 5v regulator...chances are it blew one of those.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Sweet I hate to break it to you bud. I was in the same boat as you a few months back. I blew a MS chip as well, and had allkinds of issues. Your best bet is to read as much as possible. It is alot of work!!!!! But you have to do it. You have to connect your MS to your ocmputer and upload the MSNS-E firmware than do all the changes etc... It's alot the first time, but you'll get the hang of it. 
http://www.msefi.com has tons of info. and it is pretty straightforward, as long as you follow the directions.
Do you have a stim? If you don't, you should get one. it really helps narrow down problems with wiring or ecu etc... 
Hopefully you didn't fry anything, but you probably did, since it was smoking. You need to take off the cover and look for anything burned. If nothing is visibly burned, you need to test the main chip. All directions to test the chip are in the megamanual... Again you need to use a computer.


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

I just opened it up now and C16 is burnt to ashes on the top...







that looks to be the only thing that got burned though... Should be salvagable..


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

Right on. Replace the burnt part and this time make sure you follow the firmware instructions on the Msns-E website.
Do you have a stim?


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

I dont have a stim... Hopefully I can order one next week...


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

Qustion for you boys... 
Cold it kind of idles like crap, i think it just needs a bit more advance. 
I have my dizzy retarded a bunch and 35 degrees in my trigger offset which seems to work great. 
MY BIG PROBLEM : 
It gets a bit warm say like just out of WUE or so... and ill be cruising at 2500-2700 rpm part throttle tach is steady, suddenly the tach will start bouncing around a bit and the car will start missing and the engine bucking... if i shift down and rev it up or floor it, its fine. Is there just too much timing down there? Is it changing my dwell and causing a miss? 
Should I install a seperate wire for the hall effect with tinfoil and shielding and ground the shielding somewhere? I almost think its just an interference problem at that rpm... unfortunately 2500 is my cruising speed...haha... so id like to get rid of this, its kind of irritating! 
Thanks in advance. Let me know if you need more info on the subject.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*

I'd just relocate the wire, and see if that improves. I had a similar problem, except the interference was in megatune, and did not show up on factory tach.. Relocating some wires fixed my bouncy RPM signal...


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

With a 3.3k resistor in-line with the green hall sensor wire that goes to MS there has not been any interference of the tach signal for me. 
The retarded distributor and high trigger angle make me think it could be that, but that would show up more often.
I would try the resistor and see what happens. Also, make sure there is not any power or high current cabling near your tach wire.
P.S. Its 5:10 AM on Saturday and I have been working since 4:30. If this does not make sense, well I hope I am not screwing anything up at work










_Modified by GTIMan82 at 2:19 AM 7-1-2006_


----------



## 801pete (Apr 20, 2006)

Would you guys be interested in a billet aluminum cold start blockoff plate?


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (801pete)*


_Quote, originally posted by *801pete* »_Would you guys be interested in a billet aluminum cold start blockoff plate?

YES. 

Would be even better if it was a blockoff plate with a nipple on the end for a vacuume source.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

I think I may have sorted out my acceleration issue. I tuned my VE table (heavy load, WOT) with no AE's, and got it nailed down pretty well. I was trying to use the settigns described in the Megamanual, and tune them more, but the car was not having it. Bucking all over the place on high throttle, but smoother on mild acceleration. Whereas previously with no AE's, mild acceleration caused the car to stumble and stall (making starting off from lights, shifting, and comming of decell, very annoying times). So I turned the AE's back on, tuned the top two bins (milder acceleration), and turned the bottom two off completely. Now I get best of both worlds. Smooth slow acceleration, and no riching out under heavy. Still need to fine tune it, because my laptop battery died, but I'm getting closer!


----------



## 801pete (Apr 20, 2006)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_
YES. 

Would be even better if it was a blockoff plate with a nipple on the end for a vacuume source. 

Cool, I'll probably do them both ways... So you can either have a really clean looking no vacuum source one (rather then fancy billet with a plug in it)- and a version with 1/4 or 3/8" or whatever NPT you guys want. 
I was thinking I might do away with the gasket and make them O ring seal as well. Gotta go look at the setup on my girls 16v / megasquirt and see if theres enough room to do the o ring. 
Any preferences on black anodized / raw / polished / whatever? I can do whatever... 
I just did a MS&S-E on my girls 16v because I didn't want to fix the CIS yet again, and figured this might be a handy part. BTW I used the maps on the first page of this post. Dyno tuning proved the fuel map was damn near spot on and the ignition map was about 1* across the board too hot (on 91 octane). I'll post dyno's and my revised maps once the guy with the dyno gets a damn ink jet cartridge. 124.xx whp and 128wtq @ 4500 ft/ totally stock 16v.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (801pete)*

Question:
would you make a blockoff plate that bolts directly to the intake manifold, or would it bolt to the ISV piece? I have my ISV deleted, and have also removed the part that bolts up there.


----------



## 801pete (Apr 20, 2006)

Probably one that bolts right to the manifold. 
Like I said though I can make whatever people want- 
I also removed everything on my girls car... That left me with a 2 bolt hole to blockoff.


----------



## h2odawg (Nov 29, 2002)

*Re: (801pete)*

I am going to give props to the thread starter, there is a bunch of useful information here. I do have a rather simple question for the gurus of MS. When looking at the three prong plug (like on the TPS plug) or a two prong plug (ala temp sensor) how can we tell which is positive vs negative vs ground? Pictures would be helpful.
Here are what I am talking about (sorry for the blurry pictures)









_Modified by h2odawg at 12:17 AM 7-3-2006_


_Modified by h2odawg at 12:18 AM 7-3-2006_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (h2odawg)*

The temp sensors are just resistors so it does not matter what wire is ground, but the factory VW wiring has all the sensor grounds tied to Brown/White wires. The brown/white wires all tie together in the harness and come out as grounds to the cylinder head, factory ECU, frame, and negative battery terminal. If you are using factory ground wires, make sure you dont hook up a ground in the wrong place!
I just hooked up a TPS sensor the other day using the factory idle/full throttle position switch plug. In order to get the factory brown/white wire as the ground for the new TPS sensor I had to change the wire orientation in the plug itself. I used the steps here(megamanual) to figure out what pin was what on the TPS. Once I found what wire was ground I just reconfigured the factory plug to match that.
Hope that helps. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

Does anyone know where I can buy the resistors for C16 and C17 to replace the ones that were fried on my MS board???


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

Over the internet, I don't know. I buy my parts from a local small electronics store.


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SweetSixteen* »_Does anyone know where I can buy the resistors for C16 and C17 to replace the ones that were fried on my MS board??? 

those would be capacitors...
id order some from digikey.com
the megasquirt assembly instructions will have the digikey part # on it, so find those two parts and search the numbers on digikey


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

Believe radioshack.com should also have stuff like that. Thats where I bought 470ohm resistors and transistors.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

I don't think radioshack.com serves us Canadians. Our Radioshack is super weak.


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

I ordered a stim from RS-Autosport last night and he just tossed the capacitators and upgraded my shipping to priority for nothing! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for RS-Autosport!


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Anyone care to email me a nice and tuned NA 16V 12x12 spark map?? I am kind of at a loss of time for tuning one of these things at the moment, and was hoping if nothing else I could get a nice curve/pattern to work from. email: [email protected]


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*









grabbed that one from the carbs/itb/sem forum


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Thats the one I'm using with no issues. I still feel that I might be able to add more bite to it for more power, but I have no knock sensor setup, so I'll have to listen for ping manually.


----------



## 801pete (Apr 20, 2006)

I pulled a degree out of that ^^ and made a couple more hp on pump gas - 91 oct... fwiw.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

Motor started idling high again today at 2000+ some. Don't know what caused it. Maybe been sealing my vacuum leak? The throttle stop had not moved like last time (threadlocked on). I unscrewed it some so it was resting on the stop, and the car idled fine, then drove it, and it refused to idle at all after driving it for a few minutes. Opened it back up, and got it idling again, but now I'm worried thats gonna start idling high again. Can't find any vacuume leaks, tried using the brake cleaner trick. Heading up to Waterfest next weekend, so I'm hopeing this doesn't become an issue.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Just hooked up a buddies Toy MR2T with MSII. Its running strong, but has a similar idle problem like that. We were tuning the idle and getting it setup, then it suddenly would raise up like 500 RPMS. After digging a bit, I found that his alternator was shutting off and on. 11.5V to 14V. The voltage change seemed to affect things quite a bit! Anyways, just trying to give you somewhere to look.
Are you running an idle valve?


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_
Are you running an idle valve?

No. I want to say its behaving just like a vacuum leak, but I can't find one. Its doing the exact same thing it was doing before, only last time it was just the idle screw vibrating loose and propping open the throttle. When it did it this time, the idle screw had not moved, and the TPS still measured 0% throttle or so.


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

do you have a datalog of it? If not, try and get one, see if Megatune shows anything unusual.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (DGruber58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DGruber58* »_do you have a datalog of it? If not, try and get one, see if Megatune shows anything unusual.

So difficult to get a good one with a intermittant/random problem like this though. I should have datalogged yesterday, but I was reading my guages in realtime as it was doing it. Throttle position was 0%, MAP was low like 25 or so as if I had the throttle open some, VE and spark behaved as if the throttle was open.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Wow, that sounds like a non-easy problem to find. A vacuum leak only sometimes... I would try moving around vacuum lines or potential sources of leaks to see if you can locate it. Brakebooster? Injector o-ring? Is the idle valve still in place, if so is it opening, if not, is it sealed off well?? 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif hope you can find that problem


----------



## monster007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Posting this hrer because I am stumped. Got V2.2 which I moded as per instructions on this thread for ignition. Now when I first installed it I had coil going to pin 24 not pin 25. And thats when all the problems started. Tried to start the car and it smocked the board on the underside from D20 to 30. and D13 to c15. so redid wireing and repaired the board and the same thing happened againe. any idears?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (monster007)*

The first part of this post is for MS2.2 boards, and the rest is for V3 and MSII
It sounds like a wire is mixed up somewhere... a power wire going to a ground through the MS2.2 board.
Make sure that you have the correct distributor wire, and the correct wires running to the ignition module as per the diagram on that post.


----------



## bens_cab (Oct 30, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

right guys here it
1988 golf gti cab with 20vt running megasquirt


----------



## bens_cab (Oct 30, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

right guys here it
1988 golf gti cab with 20vt running megasquirt 029q2 msns-extra
this was a budget install i started last year finnaly got round to firing it up 
im using 2 vb291s to fire the coilpacks wasted spark
it started on the button which was a big shock thought it would take ages to fire
any way hopefully you megasquirt boffs can help me out a bit
got my lc-1 wideband fitted for tuning but i have a fuel or spark prob somewhere
it will idle for a while then get really lumpy tried adjusting the fuel down as it was running rich 
didnt seem to make to much difference
timed it up with my light as follows
fixed angle 14deg
trigger angle 83deg once adjust using light
trigA 5
return 14
trigB 35
return 44
using the original cis pumps intank and main but i think im getting hot fuel ???
any ideas
ive blown down the return to the tank and it seems clear i did read somewhere that the cis pump is a 4 bar one my 20vt fpr is 3 bar so most of the fuel should be going back to the tank yes??
any how if you what my prob is let me know im struggling to find anyone else using megasquirt on a 20vt


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (bens_cab)*

First off how lean are you trying to get it? Secondly, make sure you have the LC1 configured the exact same way as MS in volts/afr. Also make sure to ground all points from the LC1 and the MS at the same spot, I've had trouble with voltage offset issues if that's not done. It'll throw the AFR way off. Have you verified the timing is right?
Speaking of timing, here's the easiest way I've found to set it up.
Trigger angle = 60deg
Fixed angle = 6 deg (or doesn't matter if you have an advanced timing light)
Get the car running by playing around with the distributor. 
Once it's running rotate the distro such that you see your flywheel 6deg mark with the timing light. 
If you can't, up the trigger by 5 and try again. Repeat if that doesn't work. Don't trigger higher then 70 though, if it still doesn't work go to 55deg and repeat going down. 
If you have an advance timing light you can set the fixed to anything and your advance light to match and go off of any tdc mark. I've found that to be easier in most cases. 
Verify that when revved that the timing doesn't change. If it does, you probably have your spark setting (inverted, non-inverted) wrong. 
Once it's all set, bolt the distro down, put the fixed to -10deg (map) and start tuning.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (need_a_VR6)*

Injector wiring questions again....
What are the opinions on which way is best? 
Method A) 1&2&3&4 all on one Megasquirt output. I have had this work very smooth.
Method B) 1&4 and 2&3 together. I have had this work pretty well.
Method C) 1&3 and 2&4 together. I have not tried this.
Method D) 1&2 and 3&4 together. I have not tried this.
My reasoning is the firing order: 1->3->4->2->1->3->4->2. 
Method B) 1&4 and 2&3 together.
Method B in firing order speak would be:
(1)1&4->(3)2&3->(4)1&4->(2)2&3->(1)1&4->(3)2&3->(4)1&4->(2)2&3 
But how do we know 1&4 and 2&3 dont get mixed up and fire one step out of sequence??
firing order: 1->3->4->2->1->3->4->2. 
Method C) 1&3 and 2&4 together.
Method C in firing order speak would be:
(1)1&3->(3)2&4->(4)1&3->(2)2&4->(1)1&3->(3)2&4->(4)1&3->(2)2&4

firing order: 1->3->4->2->1->3->4->2. 
Method D) 1&2 and 3&4 together.
Method D in firing order speak would be:
(1)1&2->(3)3&4->(4)1&2->(2)3&4->(1)1&2->(3)3&4->(4)1&2->(2)3&4

*So who thinks which way is best? *







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif just wanting to get things perfecto.


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 1:17 PM 7-20-2006_


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

finally back in business!







I just resoldered the capacitators and used the stim to load the base code and then 029q and everything is working now... One question though, since I removed the entire stock engine harness, (I dont have it anymore, only the connectors from the harness) How do I go about wiring the starter so the motor will turn over?? Can I just connect the connector that has the black / red wire at the fuse panel and run the wire to the starter connector?? Will that work?? Any insight would be key... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
EDIT: Also, I have the negative coil wire ran to the relay board, but where should I run a positive to the coil from?? Also should it be Switched 12v?? 


_Modified by SweetSixteen at 9:41 PM 7-20-2006_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

Yes to the starter black/red wire question.... use a 12 or 14 gauge wire though.
And for the +coil wire you need to run that off of the switched 12V side of your fuel pump relay. You should also put a 10 amp fuse inline to the coil. Attaching the +coil wire off of the switched fuel pump relay will kill power to the coil and fuel pump when the engine is not turning over. Thats a good safety thing.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

hey dudes, i finally got my dizzy back in the oem position with 60 in the trigger angle... my eurospec flywheel wasnt marked so im glad i marked the damn thing before installing it.
Anyways, yeah...my dwell was at 3.5 and i set it for 3 then 2.9 and it seems to have gotten rid of hte miss, get this though... before when it had the miss it would be at 2200-2500 rpm just cruising along so like 45-50 kpa... and it was violent but the tach would always drop before it happened...but now... after setting the trigger angle differently and making some changes to the advance curve... it was jumping all over and finally stopped moving completely... i think my megasquirt fried my f|_|cking tachometer!














... wtf is gonig on... 
the car seems to be alot better but still has a small miss that is really irritating around half throttle where the secondaries kick in... i have a feeling the miss i am experiencing might be from not enough ignition advance... anybody know? is more advance needed to burn higher octane fuel? (94 octane ethanol enhanced stuff) i think that was part of my problem before, martyn's ignition map didnt have any advance down low... i bumped all my values around 2000 rpm and over 50 kpa to 15 or 18 degrees and the car has a ton more torque and doesnt ping and the miss moved up a bit, so perhaps do i need more advance? i hope the megasquirt isnt throwinv voltage through my tach wire! 
is there a discrepancy between running MS2 off of the coil - and running my factory tach off of - as well? or am i mixing somehting up badly?


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

Wired up the starter to the fuse panel and it still wouldnt crank... Put another ground on the engine and its turning over!














Anyone have a decent .msq file I could use?? 16vt, t04e, 330cc injectors @ 4bar, 12psi... Im running MSnS 029q, and my email is [email protected] if you could send it over! Thanks guys!


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

why dont you just use valvecovergasket's msq and vex's ?


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (mxman)*

Since I couldnt find a stock 1.8 16v timing map I worked for 3 hours tonight turning the claimed VW 16x8 timing map into a MS 12x12 map.
I used Excel to create a 48x48 table and by using what numbers I had, I used averages and percentages to find the other numbers needed to make the 12x12 map.
There may have been a quicker way, and someone may have already done thins but I couldnt find it. I was just looking for a completely stock 1.8 16v map to start with.
*I turned this...








Into this...








*
I had more accurate numbers but Megatune rounded everything for me.


_Modified by L33t A2 at 3:54 AM 7-29-2006_


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

i am now starting to HATE MS!
i'm not able to communicate with the ECU box from my computer!

even though i got the right cable!
Send the box to al grippo a few weeks ago, then he fixed it, and loaded it with the right code.. then he shipped it back to me, and i got it on last thursday (27th) .. and i've yet to actually get my laptop to communicate








the MS is tested OK by al grippo. the cable is bought via DIYAUTOTUNE! so it should work..
i get echo from hypertherm when i jump pins 2 and 3 on the DB9 cable..
wierd **** huh?

i also have a USB to DB9 converter, also from diyautotune.. that too doesn't work








bah HATE HATE HATE HATE and no LOVE


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

OK new update on the missing and bucking problems I have had. Apparently I was running too much dwell (like i kind of suspected) but the reason I have trouble is the VB921 limits the current at 7.5 amps so anything over is turned into heat... explaining why my car only does it after it warms up a bit. I will buy a new VB921, but i will try lowering the dwell to like... 2 ms or something.... does anyone recall or calculated the stock bosch coil's dwell ?
THX

I had a friiend with this same exact problem. Check all the resistances on all the db9 connections... use a paperclip and an ohm meter... have you checked to see fi your serial loopback circuit is working via hyperterminal ? Make sure your baud rate is 9200 for ms1 and 115200 or whatever for ms2.... msg me on msn or aim if you need
hey leeta2, cool to see your cars working well.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

well.. i'm glad to inform that my MS is now alive!

was some confusion with the MT ini's









so, anyone got a decent "starter" map for a 1.8 16v with G60 injectors?









Contact me on mail [email protected] of you got one

Regards
Dan at volkswagen-graphics dot com


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

Congrats! 
hey gtiman, do you know if the stock digi2 ISV uses PWM or not? 
jerome (ottawag60) told me that it is just on or off like the volvo dealio....


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*

The VW Idle valve. Is a PWM valve. It is not a on/off valve. You need to upgrade the transistor on the board to a TIP 122. 

Here is the link with all the info you need.
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.....html
I have mine running 95% the way I want it to.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

Cool Lovre, come on msn soon and we can shoot the ****, haven't talked in a while... hows the youngin?
Thanks again on the digi2 fidle dealio.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*

That MSnS - extra site for the PWM valves has modification information for the V2.2 Boards. 
The V3 boards are a little different. The modification of a V3 board for PWM valves is in the V3 assembly guide. The resistor hooked up to the valve itself is the same.


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

no responses in my thread here or msefi forum, maybe this thread's traffic will help...

_Quote, originally posted by *DGruber58* »_I've been having some trouble getting my car fine tuned, but today I made some progress. The car wouldn't start up smoothly (always feathering the gas pedal), warm ups needed to be insanely high to make it driveable while warming up, etc.
Today I tried changing my req fuel, and now the car runs much better. Unfortunately, I changed my req fuel from 15.8 to 22.6 (roughly 21lbs/hr to 14 lbs/hr). I have vr6 injectors, which flow about 215cc/min ~ 21lbs/hr.
This is all with the base VE and Spark maps from the vortex threads.
Only thing that concerns me is now my duty cycle is almost 100 at red line.
Any ideas what could be wrong?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

I hope this helps you out... 
Basically the Req Fuel value is the "base" fuel amount and this base amount is multiplied by the VE table value and also adjusted with several other conditioning factors. Incresing the Req Fuel value effectively increases how much fuel will be sprayed by the injectors. 
With a high VE% and high REQ Fuel value, you will attain higher duty cycles because they are trying to spray a lot of fuel. The best thing to do is match the Req Fuel value with the VE table to achieve the desired air fuel ratios. If that requires you to increase the Req Fuel value too high (22.6), then change the number of injections per cycle to 2 or 4 until the Req Fuel value is lowered down enough so that it wont max out the duty cycle of your injectors.


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

I follow that much, and I already have 2 squirts and alternating cycles.
I guess my question is what could cause that to happen. They are VR6 injectors, which are supposed to flow ~210cc/min ~21lbs/hr, as per witchhunter's site http://www.witchhunter.com/Flo...3.jpg
What would cause the injectors to flow 67% of their rated flow?
Sounds quite severe for a clogged injector. Perhaps the fuel line fittings reducing pressure? Fuel pump on the way out? Maybe the injectors only do flow 14 lbs.
Any ideas?
at least the car starts easier and runs better now.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

The duty cycle is determined by the required fuel and VE Table. You can make them flow 100% of their duty cycle just by upping the Req Fuel and/or VE Table values. 67% DC is not bad at all. 
The 19lbs/hr Digi II injectors would run at 75% duty cycle at 50psi and max VE on my stock 2.0L...
The duty cylce has nothing to do with clogged injectors, or fuel line fittings reducing pressure. Certainly increasing the fuel pressure would spray a little more fuel and you would have to lower your required fuel value. But if an injectors clogs, your duty cycle value would be exactly the same as it always was because the computer is still determining what the duty cycle is. 
A stock fuel pressure regulator with 21lbs/hr injectors and a 67% duty cycle is fine. You want to keep the duty cycle below 85% if you can help it, but its fine. 
Just make sure the Req Fuel value you are using with the VE Table you are using results in the correct target Air Fuel Ratio values. If its too rich everywhere, lower the Req Fuel some. Too lean, raise it. You have to match your injectors(req fuel value) with the VE table for the engine to operate best. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 6:07 AM 8-3-2006_


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

I got the 67% by taking the 14lbs/hr divided by the expected 21lbs/hr, not the duty cycle. Sorry for the confusion. I'll have to get a couple datalogs of it running up to redline to see if it's leaning out or not. I might get new injectors anyway. I think USRT has some 24lb and 30lb injectors for like 150-160.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

Oh, i got ya. I probably just misread your post. 
I think its [email protected] who has some good deals off of Vortex, I have had good luck with their injectors http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Has anybody with megasquirt running on an na 16v dynoed lately (or in the past i guess)? 
im planning on ripping out my turbo setup and swapping over to a naturally aspirated 9a 16v, maybe with some 83.5mm pistons and a 276* tt cam.
the issue is, im gonna be crying going from the maybe 250whp i have now back to like 150 at the crank. tell me that somebody here is making more than the 134hp quoted by vw on the 9a... please...








thanks,
drew


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

martyn16v (thats his name on here IIRC) dynoed his worked 16v and provided us with some nice spark maps...
im sure he was making more than 150hp na


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

If Ved (valvecovergasket) hits me up with some screen shots of his meagtune stuff hopefully I can get my motor running this weekend! I just finished installing the fmic and piping a few minutes ago.. Heres a couple pics!


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

i am so stuck that you wouldn't believe it! pretty close to startup for me now! just need to make the correct settings in MT (i don't understand **** to be honest)
anyhow.. my problem is wiring for the hallsensor and controlmodule..

used this wiringdiagram









but, as i'm using the relaybox, things get me kunda stuck
so.. could anyone who have done this please help me out? i'm at a dead stop here now
PS: i'm running MSII v3 with no ISV/FIDDLE on a 1.8 16v (kr)
Regards..
Dan


_Modified by weejunGL at 3:53 PM 8-5-2006_


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

thats a diagram for version 2.2... why dont you use the v3 board to control spark?!


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

Heres the page... Scroll down to Captain16v's post (half way down the page) about how to use the v3 board to control spark, then you dont need the ignition control module at all... 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...ge=16


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

now i got even MORE stuck

so i don't need the ICM nor the hall sensor?

just a negative lead from the coil to the tach input on the relay board?

or?


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

You just have to solder those jumper connections on the V3 board that he explains in the post, there is also 1 thing specific to MSII so make sure you read it good. Then just wire everything directly to the relay board as it says in the post. A few things have to be wired to the extra spots on the relay board aswell. Everything is explained in full detail in the post. I had no clue what to do either but his post explained everything! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

and that will work with a MS2 proseccor?


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

well.. just did what the "guide" said i should do, and now i'm missing everything execept O2 and TPS on my stim, nothing else works


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

You have to burn the 029q MegaSquirt'n'Spark code and then setup your megatune to run MSnS 029q aswell... I had the same problem when I first did it... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

ok, so i can live up to my promises of screen shots....

























































bear in mind for anyone planning on using these, this is a 16vT with 42# injectors, running the stock distributor, stock MS MAP sensor, no IAC, v2.2 MSnS -e 0249, batch firing all 4 injectors only using one driver...
and the warmup and accel tables might be an ok place to start, but probably wont work perfect for a different car/setup, and you can tell the warmup hasnt been tuned in super cold weather anyhow...


_Modified by ValveCoverGasket at 2:13 PM 8-6-2006_


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

Ved, you are truly a life saver!!







Im going to print these off and burn them as soon as I finish eating!







Thank you SO much! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

i can post more later this afternoon if theres anything else thats relevant, but im not really using any other options (nos, water inj, shift lights, etc) and all that stuff is pretty straight forward anyhow...
i dont think theres anything else in there that actually helps the car run.


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

let us know how it goes


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SweetSixteen* »_You have to burn the 029q MegaSquirt'n'Spark code and then setup your megatune to run MSnS 029q aswell... I had the same problem when I first did it... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

problem, i'm using MSII.. and can't use the MS'n'S


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (weejunGL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weejunGL* »_problem, i'm using MSII.. and can't use the MS'n'S

oh bummer. ive always favored the MSnS myself


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_let us know how it goes









damn, I went out to get something done and the neighbour distracted me with the coronas..







i'll get on it tommorow!









_Quote, originally posted by *weejunGL* »_problem, i'm using MSII.. and can't use the MS'n'S

Then make sure you load the MSII code onto your board... if you were trying to set it up before with MSnS and the ignition module, then you probably dont have the right code on your board for MSII... The problem with these forums is 90% of people are running MS 2.2, 9% are running v3 and only 1% are using MSII, so finding people for tech support, the pickings are slim! Ved hooked it up large for me though!


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

ah well, i can wait a day to hear the good news









i think ill update my 16vT thread with those screen shots too, just for more exposure. hopefully answers some questions before people even get a chance to ask me


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weejunGL* »_well.. just did what the "guide" said i should do, and now i'm missing everything execept O2 and TPS on my stim, nothing else works










_Quote, originally posted by *weejunGL* »_
problem, i'm using MSII.. and can't use the MS'n'S



I mentioned multiple times in the "guide" that the directions are not for the MS2 processor. Check out the megasquirt.info site for the ms2 instructions.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: (Captain16vGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Captain16vGTI* »_
I mentioned multiple times in the "guide" that the directions are not for the MS2 processor. Check out the megasquirt.info site for the ms2 instructions. 

Well.. i've read the manual, and i've done somethings you didn't

anyhow.. i wrote that i was using MSII code version 2.36 didn't i? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

Megasquirt spark.
MSII instructions are in there too at the very bottom of the first post.
_Modified by GTIMan82 at 5:19 AM 8-7-2006_


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 5:19 AM 8-7-2006_


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

Damn... I just wired in the last 2 things I needed before firing and while I had the key turned over, plugging in the codes Ved sent me, I smelled the magic smoke... Looked under the dash and my relay board was on fire... I wired up a heated o2 sensor and the positive for the coil off switched 12v, so im thinking it was the o2 sensor wiring that did it since the +12 to positive on the coil was not wired through the relay board..







looks like im down another week untill I can get another relay board from RS-Autosport...







Heres a pic of the carnage...


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

damn... looks like I have something wired into S1 on the relay board... wtf... I better go and double check... I dunno why I would do that...







Its probably the 02 sensor signal wire....


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

yikes, thats pretty wild.
well, thats why they make relay boards, better that than the ecu


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

hrmph, it has to be either the fuel pump wiring or the signal wire from the hall sensor... the wire going to s1 is the signal wire from my hall sensor... I dont know why it would burn up now though, I have had the key turned over lots of times for longer then I had it today and nothing melted.. is there any way to diagnose which thing caused this? I dont want to buy another board and have it melt down on me again...


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

Would it make a differance that I took the +12v switched signal from the defrost switch wire?? Should I have ran a wire from the FP wire on the relay board to the + side of the coil AND to the fuel pump instead?? I also ran the +12v from the defrost switch to the o2 sensor heater aswell... I think I will get a ghetto 1 wire o2 sensor and just run the signal wire to that, and run a wire from the FP on the relay board to the + side of the coil for switched so I know it wasnt my wiring that mashed it up...







So close, now back to [ ] one...


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

Also can I still use the 3 wire o2 signal and just not hook up the heater / ground wire and just run the signal wire to megasquirt?? would that work?


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

yeah you can just use the 3 wire but only hook the signal up...also 3 wire o2s dont have an external ground, they have two heater wires and a signal. (two white = heater, and one black = signal ) maybe you hooked one of those white wires to ground, which would have cause a fire...
but honestly i wouldnt bother with a narrow band at this point...i only use one now for monitoring since the map is tuned.
its really not going to tell you anything useful before the map has been tuned...


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

yeah I definitely put one of the o2 sensor wires to ground... it was grounded with the rest of the MS sensors. That is probably 99.9% the cause then! I just ordered another relay board from RS, so hopefully when I install it minus the o2 sensor it shouldnt meltdown...







Thanks again Ved, you have been a huge help with this! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

but again dont bother with the narrow band anyhow








hopefully it works this time around


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

alright sounds good... so basically I dont even need to wire up the o2 sensor at all and just my wideband controller completely seperate from MS??


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*

thats right
eventually youll want to get your wideband controller a + and - but dont worry about that yet.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

anyone of you who is running a 16v passat automatic TB ? 
i need to know what the different pins are

ground = pin #
signal = pin #
+5 v = pin #
appreciate your time


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

facing the plug (on the tps itself), starting from the left, it should be:
1) Vref
2) Signal
3) ground
this is for an auto g60 tb, but i think the tps is the same on the passat tb. if you get stuck with this again, you can always just hook it up to ms, and mix and match the wires till you get a signal you like. thats how i did it, and it worked http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
plus i just went on a 450 mile trip today, and ms didnt miss a beat, woo hoo! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (NJRrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NJRrado* »_
plus i just went on a 450 mile trip today, and ms didnt miss a beat, woo hoo! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

i thought just a week ago you were a naysayer








glad to hear its workin out for ya.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

another question.. 

the dizzy, that operates on 12v right? and not 5v as the tps does?


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

the hall has 12v, 5v, and ground IIRC


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

that means that input is 12v, signal is 5 and ground pretty much is as said.. ground


----------



## Knappsterx (Feb 18, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

the hall is EITHER 12v or 5v ref (vw hall likes 5) split it off the 5v reference for the tps. then there is signal and ground. 
use a ohm meter, the two pins that yield low resistance at idle and raises as you open the throttle are the 5v reference and signal. The center is almost always the signal wire.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (Knappsterx)*

Well I started on a MSII unit to run my turbo scirocco, and the MSII Toyota MRII turbo install has been completed. The MRII just ran at a "track day" event in Canada and with the exception of overheating, ran quite well. 
I do have a question for anyone with a turbo setup, how are the accel enrichments set? We have been having a hard time balancing them.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

and now i hate MS AGAIN!!!
keep blowing the fuse for INJ2 when i turn the key and the realys kick in









anyone encountered this?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

Since that is a general problem better answers are probably on this forum http://www.msefi.com/index.php


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VCG* »_i thought just a week ago you were a naysayer








glad to hear its workin out for ya. 

ya, well, i guess yall made me realize that my problems werent necessarily with ms, but rather with the fact that i was trying to make a complicated custom turbo setup work as a daily driver--which on my budget is just not possible. 
im back tho, for now anyway


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

just found out why i'm blowing INJ2 fuse! its because the cable between the MS and the relayboard isn't correct







so, gonna redo that one


----------



## Knappsterx (Feb 18, 2003)

Does anyone know what would cause the ecu to reset itself randomly? If its idleing, sometimes its enough to kill the engine, other times it recovers. In the datalog i get a line that says "Mark 001 Reset..." the engine runs fine otherwise.
ms1 v3.0 MSnS-Extra v029q2


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (Knappsterx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Knappsterx* »_Does anyone know what would cause the ecu to reset itself randomly? If its idleing, sometimes its enough to kill the engine, other times it recovers. In the datalog i get a line that says "Mark 001 Reset..." the engine runs fine otherwise.
ms1 v3.0 MSnS-Extra v029q2

Could be noise in your charging system. Mine used to do it more often when I had my car idling at a lower rpm. I now have my car idling around 1k rpm and it doesn't seem to happen anymore. I also ran my relay boards power right to the battery. The battery kinda acts like a cap. At that point you shouldn't have any noise at all. Good luck
-Chris


----------



## Knappsterx (Feb 18, 2003)

*Re: (Captain16vGTI)*

rpm doesn't seem to affect when it happens. There is no interruption in power to the ecu. all sensor grounds and the ms ground come together and go directly to the battery. 
What noise would cause the ecu to reset itself?


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (Knappsterx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Knappsterx* »_rpm doesn't seem to affect when it happens. There is no interruption in power to the ecu. all sensor grounds and the ms ground come together and go directly to the battery. 
What noise would cause the ecu to reset itself?

Alternator noise. That's why it sometimes varies depending on idle speed. The slower the alt is spinning the more likely it is to get resets. That's what i've determined at least. Try swapping a alt with someone and see what happens. 
-Chris


----------



## Knappsterx (Feb 18, 2003)

*Re: (Captain16vGTI)*

i actually have a couple spare alts, you think maybe the diode on the alt is bad and is letting too much alternating current go to the battery? i better get the multimeter out...the voltmeter isn't enough anymore...


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (Knappsterx)*

Sorry to hijack a technical discussion, but MS is going on vacation. Actually, MS is going on a road trip!!! 5 hour road trip (2 way trip) Let's see how she does.
Fingers crossed.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I have the MS set to 16.0 AFR at cruise. Should net be some nice MPG's...


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdn20VALVE* »_Sorry to hijack a technical discussion, but MS is going on vacation. Actually, MS is going on a road trip!!! 5 hour road trip (2 way trip) Let's see how she does.
Fingers crossed.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I have the MS set to 16.0 AFR at cruise. Should net be some nice MPG's...

Good luck man. Let us know how it goes http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Chris


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdn20VALVE* »_The VW Idle valve. Is a PWM valve. It is not a on/off valve. You need to upgrade the transistor on the board to a TIP 122. 

Here is the link with all the info you need.
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.....html
I have mine running 95% the way I want it to.









I am assembling an MS2 on a V3 board, and can't seem to find any information on my stock Bosch IAC. The link provided above seems to indicate it is an on/off valve rather than a stepper motor, but I was under the impression it was a stepper motor? I have two, here is the part number of one, off a 2.0 16v Passat I believe.
Bosch 3 wire part #: 034 133 055
Anyway, if it is a stepper style motor, I need to figure out how to jumper it properly to get everything functioning. Thanks people.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

just another question.. where do i soldier inn the pullupresistor?
as i'm going to use the hallsender from the GTI16v 
I've jumpered all that the manual says, but still get no tach readout to my Ms tho


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*









what fuel rail is this? is it a oem fuel rail of some sort or a aftermarket one? looks like a stock fuel rail from a different car... i want a cheap alternative for a fuel rail for my digifant 2 16v


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kalvinlk* »_
I am assembling an MS2 on a V3 board, and can't seem to find any information on my stock Bosch IAC. The link provided above seems to indicate it is an on/off valve rather than a stepper motor, but I was under the impression it was a stepper motor? I have two, here is the part number of one, off a 2.0 16v Passat I believe.
Bosch 3 wire part #: 034 133 055
Anyway, if it is a stepper style motor, I need to figure out how to jumper it properly to get everything functioning. Thanks people.

There is hardly any support for the 3 wire Bosch valve. And believe when it comes to frequency selection, your going to need support. Ditch the 3 wire ones and go with a two wire bosch. (it's very easy to get. Any Digifant II Volks. You'll be much happier.


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (lemooresgliguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lemooresgliguy* »_








what fuel rail is this? is it a oem fuel rail of some sort or a aftermarket one? looks like a stock fuel rail from a different car... i want a cheap alternative for a fuel rail for my digifant 2 16v 

Looks like a 1.8T fuel rail.


----------



## Armagon (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Captain16vGTI)*

is there anybody that has a well tuned spark map table and would like to share that with us so i can try that on my 16v and go beat the s***t out of it and only leave hondas in my back ?
Thx


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

The two wire is a simple on/off fast idle valve, correct? I figured the 3-wire is a PWM valve, and it seems people are having success with it here and there, just not too much with MSnS-E. I already modded my board for it, so I figure it's worth trying at least.
Does the two wire you mentioned fit/sit the same as the 3-wire I have stock? I haven't looked at the two wire, but my goal is to look OEM. Well, aside from the fact it'll have no fuel distributor....and a k&n....and a fuel rail...well you get the idea


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Captain16vGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Captain16vGTI* »_Looks like a 1.8T fuel rail.

The 1.8t fuel rail actually lines up w/ the injector runners on the 16v? wow i didn't know that... you can probbly just use the 1.8t injectors then too huh?


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kalvinlk* »_The two wire is a simple on/off fast idle valve, correct? I figured the 3-wire is a PWM valve, and it seems people are having success with it here and there, just not too much with MSnS-E. I already modded my board for it, so I figure it's worth trying at least.
Does the two wire you mentioned fit/sit the same as the 3-wire I have stock? I haven't looked at the two wire, but my goal is to look OEM. Well, aside from the fact it'll have no fuel distributor....and a k&n....and a fuel rail...well you get the idea









The two wire IS a PWM valve. It fits the same way as the 16v, except it's a little bit skinnier AFAIK.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

Thats a custom fuel rail, not a 1.8T. The 1.8T rail needs some kinda modifications IIRC.








Armagon:
as for a spark map, I have one on my laptop at home and need to post it up. I got it from someone on the tex and have not had a chance to fully try it yet. My friends 2.016V Jetta is still on blocks cause he cant find a knuckle to connect to his manual steering rack.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

His Jetta a MKI?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

nope mkII


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

bah!!
damn hall sensor ****!

i got fuel.. but no spark now


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

seeing rpm while cranking?


----------



## Armagon (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

i happenned to me and the only problem was a bad connection. if you don't have rpm signal, you will know where is your problem


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (Armagon)*

No, not true. If you don't see any RPM while cranking, I have a strong idea what the problem is. Basically, our hall sensors are "reverse" from what MS was engineered for. MS is looking for a square wave "open-high-open-high" where high is 5volts. Our hall sendor puts out "open-low-open-low" where open is ground. So, you need to reverse the optoin circuit on the MS board so that it can read the VW hall sensor signal correctly.
How'd you mod your MS board to run spark?


----------



## HarielA4 (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

I can't seem to find any of the files for the Tables that everyone here is mentioning. Where would I go to get these?


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kalvinlk* »_No, not true. If you don't see any RPM while cranking, I have a strong idea what the problem is. Basically, our hall sensors are "reverse" from what MS was engineered for. MS is looking for a square wave "open-high-open-high" where high is 5volts. Our hall sendor puts out "open-low-open-low" where open is ground. So, you need to reverse the optoin circuit on the MS board so that it can read the VW hall sensor signal correctly.
How'd you mod your MS board to run spark?


i've done everything that the megamanuel said i should to read hallsensor..
even used shelded wire in the sensor signal too.. damn strange thing.. no loose or broken connectors anywhere
and this is how its done: (this is from my head, i don't exactly remember how it is)
Pullup from S12 (12v) to optoin, which is jumpered to the other opto thingy near the optoin
have a wire between opto out and J10 (to bring the signal to pin 36)

and this is how its connected:
Coil positive to FP, so i get current into the coil, then pin 36 to coil negative, and coil negative to battery negative (tried with and without gound on the coil, no difference)
12v from injectorbank on relayboard to + on the hall, and TPSret for hall ground..

should work, alltho it doesn't..
get loads of fuel tho.. 

[email protected] <= msn adress if anyone wants to help me out realtime


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

If you are getting fuel, you are getting an rpm signal to megasquirt... That means its working. However, your tahometer in your car may not be working.


----------



## bertelli (Aug 30, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

Thought you may like my info on 8v megasquirt install, just click my sig.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (bertelli)*

hmm... good question.. i don't have any speedo unit in the car right now.. don't need one.. but MS does not show me any RPM ..
and my sparkplugs are wet of fuel.. no spark..

so, here's the mods that i've done to the MS unit in order to use Hall sensor
Jumpered R43 
Jumpered D1 and D2 
Jumpered IGBTout to IGN 
Jumpered OPTOOUT to TSEL 
Jumpered IGBTin to JS10(ign) 
Jumpered TACHSELECT to OPTOin 
Jumpered XG1 to XG2 
Pullup resistor (1k ohm 1/2 - Brown, blue, red and gold) between S12 to the middle of the IGBTout and IGN 

Hopefully this is right? 

MS2 V3

Got some pics of the board with its mods aswell

check them out and give me some feedback on what the hell i'm doing wrong here
http://vw-gfx.com/media/thumbnails.php?album=7


_Modified by weejunGL at 9:19 AM 9-3-2006_


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

Whohooo.. finally got rpm signal!
still no sparkyspark tho

Pin 36 til coil negative, coil negative to battery negative!
Current from switched source which is always on when the key is in acc position, no currentloss on cranking..

but still no spark


----------



## G60syncro (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

Has anybody gotten MS-II to run with knock sensors on a 16v?? I'm planning on turboing my Golf and converting to MS somehow. I'd like to keep the knock sensors if possible and make somekind of electronic boost control. I'm still in the planning stages, so for now I'm open to any suggestions on how to go about this.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (G60syncro)*

i might do it soon man....(knock sensors)
anyways... so boys... i found my issue is just huge lean spikes... martyns map must be for g60 injectors cause i had to beef it up alot before i could get anywhere near the top..
I have the area of around 40-70 kpa and 2000-5500 beefed up a bunch but its getting incredibly lean spikes... should i just raise my REQ fuel? i think the values are like 75 ... i dont think i can tune this spike out... any suggestions? stupid 2 piece tbody..


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (mxman)*

injectors shouldn't matter, if your req_fuel is right. The VE table is calculating how much fuel is needed at that rpm and pressure relative to completely filling the cylinder. If you generate a VE table, it is very similar to martyn's table.
how are your injectors?


----------



## twinbeltg60 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

Hi,
I am interested in where you sourced your fuel rail as pictured in this post, was it manufactured by a Tuning company, or you..have you any details, as I would like to buy one of these if possible (I live in the UK)can you advise me? thanks a lot.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (twinbeltg60)*

so boys, i am having trouble with this dual tbody setup... my tps is like at 25% say and 35-40kpa ... then when it opens to like 30% the secondary opens a bit and it shoots to like 70kpa ... and it misses...
any suggestions for tuning this out on the accel enrichment ? should i maybe set the threshold higher ?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (twinbeltg60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twinbeltg60* »_Hi,
I am interested in where you sourced your fuel rail as pictured in this post, was it manufactured by a Tuning company, or you..have you any details, as I would like to buy one of these if possible (I live in the UK)can you advise me? thanks a lot.

The 16V fuel rail was made by someone on the vortex. He made like 10 or 20 but then stopped due to lack of interest. Your best bet is to buy one from o34 motorsport or a company such as Ross Machine Racing or Bahn Brenner Motorsport.



_Modified by GTIMan82 at 4:33 AM 9-12-2006_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_so boys, i am having trouble with this dual tbody setup... my tps is like at 25% say and 35-40kpa ... then when it opens to like 30% the secondary opens a bit and it shoots to like 70kpa ... and it misses...
any suggestions for tuning this out on the accel enrichment ? should i maybe set the threshold higher ? 

Sounds like the same problem i was having I would keep messing with your accel enrichments. If you have the option of mapdot enrichment, try to mix both map and tps based enrichment and then set the map %change points for that one special case.


----------



## PintSized (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_
The 16V fuel rail was made by someone on the vortex. He made like 10 or 20 but then stopped due to lack of interest. Your best bet is to buy one from a company such as Ross Machine Racing or Bahn Brenner Motorsport.

Try here http://www.racecraft-fabrication.com/ 
Rails are made by a texer and a MUCH better price. Beautiful pieces.


----------



## bertelli (Aug 30, 2005)

_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_so boys, i am having trouble with this dual tbody setup... my tps is like at 25% say and 35-40kpa ... then when it opens to like 30% the secondary opens a bit and it shoots to like 70kpa ... and it misses...
any suggestions for tuning this out on the accel enrichment ? should i maybe set the threshold higher ? 

Have you calibrated the TPS? If you have it could be that your throttle body is flowing too much when the secondary opens, not good for stable accel tuning. You could try the accel settings off my site (in the megasquirt section), I found the stock settings were a long way out.


----------



## twinbeltg60 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: (PintSized)*

To Pintsized & GTIMan82,
Thanks for your responses re fuel rail, I was interested in the one GTIMan82 has because it is very close to the original G60 Limited one by VW Motorsport in their Golf Ltd of the Late 1980's(16V G60) , and I wanted to try to replicate that Engine...(GTIMan82 , don't suppose you remember the supplier's details.?).
Many thanks anyway, all for some very interesting reading, almost makes me think I have bitten off more than I can chew with my proposed 16V G60 engine for my Right hand Drive Corrado G60.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (twinbeltg60)*

1 small piece at a time and you will get there http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

OK, got it running, sort of.
Anybody running v3 and MS2 wanna post some ignition settings for direct coil control using a scirocco 16v coil? I got the car running, but it's running rough and I know the timing is off considerably. I got my stock distributer changing voltages from 0-4v at TDC, and the only way I can get the car to run is with the following ignition settings:
trigger offset: -25
ignition input capture: rising edge
cranking trigger: trigger return
coil charging scheme: standard
spark output: going high


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

Try falling edge and 45-60 trigger offset... I am also doing a v3 ms2 in a rocco 16V T







Let me know if it works


----------



## jackyltardvaark (May 30, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

so the only thing i havent heard talked about is the ect, i bought my ms box with the gm iat, and ect sensors. Is everyone running these? Or is everyone using the stock 16v ect?


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

I wrote that message right before I took a beer and burger break, and I came back a bit tipsy and got her fired up!
The magic recipe? A higher dwell (5ms) and a trigger offset of 68, falling edge ignition input capture, and cranking trigger as calculated.
I dropped max spark duration down to 1.2 which seemed to help a misfire I had? I was afraid to advance dwell past 5ms, even though my coil only seems to get warm as a result of the exhaust, rather than frying internally, and the vb921 does not get hot either. I figure I am ok to advance the dwell a bit if the vb921 isn't hot? What dwell are you all running on a 16v coil?


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (jackyltardvaark)*

And I used the Bosch CLT sensor, but a GM IAT sensor if that helps. The Bentley will have the graph of reistance/temp that you need to calibrate MS with the Bosch sensor.


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

Ahh, disregard the above; I have my dwell currently at 2.6; at 2.4 the low rpm misfire came back, but car runs excellent at 2.6ms. Spark duration sits at 2ms and doesn't seem to make a difference when changed, so I am leaving it alone for now.
LC-1 helped me get a pretty decent map roughed out already, while my mom drove us to lunch and I tuned. My spark map seems very retarded though, to prevent knock, though my air filter location of infront of the radiator is not helping that at all I am sure.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

kalvink, im running ms2 and the stock coil with the vb921 etc..
i needed a 1k pullup to make mine get hall signal....

i run 2.5 ms dwell... it seems to work better with 0 ms of acceleration dwell.. it used to work better with .8 but it wont save that value....
get the v2.6 code, msg me i can get the url for you... it has support for XTau and other fancy stuff








i have some ... good? news? my afr hit 11.5 with 106 duty cycle near 6000 rpm... i think i need bigger injectors... haha hopefully this means im makin some decent power ...hahaha... my missing was improper table values, think i will need g60 injectors to even set my car up properly.... my req fuel is like 16.8 and the near idle values are close to 40 and 35... it idles at 1100 because it idled like crap when it was cold.... what do you think ? try and get the afr round 13.5:1 and then check what the duty cycle is ? it only spiked up there for a second ... most of the time its fairly low.







thx 
kalvinik and gtiman you should add me on aim or msn or something!


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*

anyone have a good AFR table for an NA 16v motor i can use for tuning with my VE table?


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

the afr table on the megasquirt site is pretty good duder
msg me on aim mxmang ...you're on my list i think


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (Knappsterx)*

PG 30!

_Quote, originally posted by *86JettaWolfsburg* »_I;m sure someone else has done this already, but I figured I'd share how I duplicated the VB921 circut from V3 on the V2.2 board. Now I don't need the Bosch Ignition Module.
*Step One*
On top of the board the pins of the VB921 are jumpered to:
1 - the right side of R25 with 330 ohm resistor in line(to CPU)
2 - JP7 (ground)
3 - to X13 (coil signal out)










Does it matter how the resistor is wired in?








It looks like you have it wired like the bottom one, but I'm not %100 sure. Thought I'd ask.


----------



## PintSized (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

Electricty will always take the path of least resistance. If you wire it like the bottom that is a short accross the resistor which will bypass the resistor completely. In the case of the second drawing you would not see the effects of the resistor.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (PintSized)*

Ok, that's what I thought, but the picture looks like the bottom one to me.
Thanks for clarifying. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Knappsterx (Feb 18, 2003)

*Re:*

MS-1 v3pcb running MSnS-E v029q2 with MegaTune 2.25
2.0 16v, digi2 injectors & fpr, GM IAT, Bosch CLT (use Easytherm) 
Some of you may recognize some of these values, that's because you've helped me get this thing going, I'm just putting it all in one place. The VE table is the origional I started with, after running MegaLogViewer several times it has changed and probably will continue to change, but that one should get anyone started.
edit: most pics stopped working, not sure why...


_Modified by Knappsterx at 10:21 PM 10-6-2006_


----------



## Digital-K (Jul 13, 2006)

anyone have a base map for a 16v on itb's and euro cam


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (Digital-K)*

No but I have a semi-monster ITB 16V engine with Cat 1215's soon to be squirted


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

This thread needs to be turned into a collaborative web page. Each time I go through an additional megasquirt install I recognize the need to better organize/link the many good MS threads and web pages together, and also clarify the fact that there are multiple "correct" ways of hooking up things. Anyways, If anyone else is a software engineer or web master out there with some willingness to work on a project like this please let me know. And im not talking about just throwing up a few web pages... I mean building something like the pros do by plotting out an organizational chart, page structure, and possibly using a free content manager like Plone







Serious IM's only please


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

I might be interested. I've done a bit with html, css, dreamweaver, photoshop, etc.
And on another note, I've been having some problems with MS.
August 24th I took the jetta on it's first long trip, 4hrs to school. Rough start in the morning (it's getting colder...), but made it just fine. Last weekend I went back home. I'd been having troubles getting the usb cable to work. After a little fiddling around, it was reading well. I updated to the 29q firmware and installed all the MS programs on my laptop. Since then I've been having trouble, the car is not running well at all. The car doesn't have any umph, and fades up top like the spark is retarding. I got back to school, and brought the MS board inside to test. I had the stim attached, and was running through review mode when I noticed some ****ed up settings, and then noticed the neg. battery power wire was broken, and possibly crossed something. 
I fixed that, but all the Megatune readings were fubar'd. I reinstalled the firmware, reset my settings, and everything was reading fine off the stim.
After putting it back in the car though, the problem persists.
It also idles really low, about 6-700rpm. I have to almost ease the rpms down to that at a stop, or else it stalls. Almost no acceleration.
I can't remember exactly when the problem started, before or after I updated the firmware. But I know the car ran well on the first trip up to school.
A couple things that might affect this:
1. My req_fuel. My calculated req_fuel should be 15.8 (vr6 injectors). To get the car to run well, I had to change it to 22.6. This is slightly rich. Anything over 20 can work once the car is running.
2. I never had good startup/warmup settings. Never could get them dialed in. Even hot starts. What worked well one day, wouldn't the next.
Thus, I am not sure if this is a hardware (engine problems?) or software(MS) problems.
Any ideas on troubleshooting this?
If I had the money, I'd love to get new injectors and a wideband, but alas, I'm a broke college student.
TIA http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Knappsterx (Feb 18, 2003)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

did you remember to update the .s19 file? If you have a bosch clt and it uses the table for gm, that would screw stuff up.


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (Knappsterx)*

I am using a bosch clt, haven't updated the thermfactor yet. Why would that cause running problems, even after the engine is warm? After the car is up to running temp, MS sees around 200*F I think, so it's not in warmup mode. It's definitely not helping, especially with start up, but I don't think it would be causing these problems.


----------



## bertelli (Aug 30, 2005)

Have you got a datalogger? Its the easiest way for people to review how the car is running.


----------



## jmaddocks (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (Knappsterx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Knappsterx* »_did you remember to update the .s19 file? If you have a bosch clt and it uses the table for gm, that would screw stuff up.

The temp-resistance chart for an OEM VW CLT sensor in my Bentley is very similar to the GM values in EasyTherm. I think it's a much bigger deal for the IAT sensor, which is used in the fueling equation. My $.02...


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (jmaddocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmaddocks* »_The temp-resistance chart for an OEM VW CLT sensor in my Bentley is very similar to the GM values in EasyTherm. I think it's a much bigger deal for the IAT sensor, which is used in the fueling equation. My $.02...

does IAT play that big a role?
I found this in the MegaManual:
REQ_FUEL*10 = 36,000,000 * CID * AIRDEN(100kPA, 70ºF)/(NCYL*AFR*INJFLOW ) * 1/DIVIDE_PULSE
and this:
PW = REQ_FUEL * VE * MAP * E + accel + Injector_open_time
where
E = gamma_Enrich = (Warmup/100) * (O2_Closed Loop/100) * (AirCorr/100) * (BaroCorr/100)
AirCorr is the IAT
I have a GM open element IAT, I haven't looked at it in a while, I think it's reading just fine.
This is frustrating because I can't tell if it's a hardware or software problem. 








just a little rambling here:
my 22.6 req_fuel is confusing. Especially since my mpg has dropped, now around 18-22. Yet 15.8 (calculated) doens't even get a reading from the O2 sensor. I'd like to get my fuel pressure calculated. Then I could confirm if my pump, injectors, fpr are good/bad. 
Here is a datalog I found.
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=144144#144144
Nothing more recent, or with the 29q code.
thanks


----------



## Knappsterx (Feb 18, 2003)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

I'm having an interesting problem. I'm getting stray spark. 
With a good 12v supply to the coil+ and only the ecu connected to coil-, i get random activity. It would cause the engine to buck against itself under cranking and some impressive backfires as well as a couple through the intake. Not cool. 
To try and find the culprit, I put the wire from the coil to distributor near the intake manifold (a ground) and turned the key. I was getting random sparks. The ecu was pulsing the coil for no reason whatsoever. 
Any ideas as to what would cause this? Its ms1 v3pcb from rs-autosport configured for vw hall. 


_Modified by Knappsterx at 8:13 PM 9-22-2006_


----------



## Digital-K (Jul 13, 2006)

*Re: (Knappsterx)*

is there a compilation of the tuning maps people are using? I'd love to get something to start with...


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (Digital-K)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Digital-K* »_is there a compilation of the tuning maps people are using? I'd love to get something to start with...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2010965


----------



## bertelli (Aug 30, 2005)

*Re: (Knappsterx)*

[I'm having an interesting problem. I'm getting stray spark. 
With a good 12v supply to the coil+ and only the ecu connected to coil-, i get random activity. It would cause the engine to buck against itself under cranking and some impressive backfires as well as a couple through the intake. Not cool. 
To try and find the culprit, I put the wire from the coil to distributor near the intake manifold (a ground) and turned the key. I was getting random sparks. The ecu was pulsing the coil for no reason whatsoever. 
Any ideas as to what would cause this? Its ms1 v3pcb from rs-autosport configured for vw hall.]
I'd start by checking your timing settings - with it backfiring that is the most likely cause.


_Modified by bertelli at 12:14 PM 9-23-2006_


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (bertelli)*

ive got the VE worked out pretty well, once the car is up and running it runs great! ive now started working on cranking and ASE. during cranking it nearly starts every time but just doesnt quite catch. if i give it a little throttle when its about to catch, it generally catches and fires up. 
assuming enrichments, VE map, etc. are void during cranking, the throttle blip would only be adding additional air correct? so if it needs that extra bit of air, then my cranking is too rich correct and i should lean the pulsewidths out by perhaps 0.1 each try since it is so close to starting on its own? 
i have been making changes to the cranking pulsewidths but i believe i was making adjustments that were too large for me to notice a positive change by going either shorter/longer. it is the same situation with the ASE changes making no positive affect. i have, however gotten some good results with the WUE. 
i dont have any datalogs during cranking, but can post some if need be. just let me know if you would like to see it without pedal or with pedal etc. i can also post my msq if that would help as well.


----------



## Knappsterx (Feb 18, 2003)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

ok, i got the spark under control. turns out i didn't have the spark output inverted (for controling coil directly) and instead the ecu thought it was controling an ignition control module. i updated my earlier post with the changes.
anyway, anyone have good dwell settings other than the given ones in the code?


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (Knappsterx)*

having trouble understanding the req_fuel setting can someone explain this like im a kindergartner lol
i have learned a lot about msns-e but still a few dumb questions, the req_fuel setting, it in cooperation with the ve table gives you the right amount of fuel at the right rpm right? i understand the ve table but how do i figure out my req_fuel.
__________________________
1.8 16v 42#/440cc injectors


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (L33t A2)*

req_fuel is calculated for you based on your inputs in the req_fuel calculater. its based on your engine displacement and injector size.


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk2dubbin* »_req_fuel is calculated for you based on your inputs in the req_fuel calculater. its based on your engine displacement and injector size.

oh lol im a tard, i havent gotten much chance to play with the software, i see now, thanks


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (L33t A2)*

Just a note, you may have to play with the calculated req fuel value some to get it to work with the ve table you have, or to get the ve table to achieve the across the board AFR you are looking for.


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

has anyone gotten their non-isv 16v to start reliably without using the throttle to induce extra air during cranking? no matter how low i take the cranking pulsewidths it doesnt seem to be enough to get it to start right up...


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

I have, but I had to open the throttle rest position somewhat to get it to work. I was able to get it to idle at 1050 when cold -> 1150 rpms when warm. It idled so smooth I really didnt care that it idled at 1150 rpms when warm. Anyways, try messing with the idle rest position set screw on the throttle body and see if that helps you out.


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

like gtiman said, you have to adjust the idle stop screw. Stock it's almost completely closed, so you're not getting any air when trying to start. It's a fine balance between cranking pw, ase, wue, and idle stop.


----------



## Knappsterx (Feb 18, 2003)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

sometimes my ignition just stops working, sometimes for a short period of time, sometimes for quite a while. even if the car is in mid warm-up the ignition will cut out, the engine will die, and i won't get spark under cranking even if turn the ecu off and on again. what would cause this?


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_I have, but I had to open the throttle rest position somewhat to get it to work. I was able to get it to idle at 1050 when cold -> 1150 rpms when warm. It idled so smooth I really didnt care that it idled at 1150 rpms when warm. Anyways, try messing with the idle rest position set screw on the throttle body and see if that helps you out.

my throttle is open, and my idle is tuned well. it idles in the 800's cold and around 1100 warm and like you - i am fine with that. i guess i just need to stay determined to make it start without the pedal and keep plugging numbers in until i see some results in a positive direction http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Passat tb question.*

I am installing megasquirt v2.2 on my scirocco. I am only running fuel but I purchased a passat tb for the tps. How do I wire it into my M.S? There are a number of wires comming off the tb and Im not shure which ones to use. I am just now atrting the install on my M.S so any help would be great. Also I am trying to figure out which wires from the original harness I need and do not need. (so I can remove the unnessasary stuff)
Thanks for the help.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Passat tb question. (sciroccoracer)*

OK good news, i finally found out my issue with the megasquirt, my tach was dropping pretty severely and it was missing around 2000-2500rpm, i think it had something to do with the way the Megasquirt 2 ramps up the dwell at that rpm and load. 
MS2 known good setting for predictor algorithm : "last derivative" instead of "1st rpm high 2nd low" and it cleared up all my issues! 
BTW, auto mixture control seems to work pretty well in the v2.6t5 version of the ms2 firmware. I just set the loadsites around 14.7 near idle and around 12.9 at high load no vacuum (100kpa) and it cleared my stuff up pretty well.
BTW thanks kalvinik for some base numbers to verify my numbers were within spec.
A note to you all, apparently the flash memory in the ms1 and i think ms2 chip is only good for around 10,000 flashes. So don't set autotune or auto mix control to 10 seconds per burn. Modify the ms2.ini file and set it for "600 seconds" or something, that's 10 minutes instead of 5 or 300 seconds like the stock code allows.
In addition, some of you might get better results trying to modify the skip pulses with a hall effect sensor since it skips the first 3 pulses thinking they might be erroneous. I am going to mod my code and see if i can enter 2 or 1. Basically with a toothed wheel that might only be 3 degrees before it fires the injectors but with the hall it won't fire your injectors until its made 3 full rotations of the distributor... that's 3 complete rotations of the engine. Is it not ? 
Hopefully my babbling helps some of you!


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Passat tb question. (mxman)*

Thanks mxman, if I ever have 1/2 a second to finish the MS2 turbo scirocco I for one will remember those pointers.


----------



## Digital-K (Jul 13, 2006)

*Re: Passat tb question. (GTIMan82)*

hey guys! just got my 9a 16v w/ 1.8 head and suku hollow intake cam (268 I think) w/ gsxr 1000 ITB's/TPS/rail/injectors setup running..... I just wanted to see if anyone had any input on fuel maps and spark maps for this setup. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 












_Modified by Digital-K at 8:15 AM 10-12-2006_


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Passat tb question. (Digital-K)*

Here's my project thread if anyone is interested: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2755698 
Wiring diagram(Thanks pat!):








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Digital-K (Jul 13, 2006)

*Re: Passat tb question. (Digital-K)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Digital-K* »_hey guys! just got my 9a 16v w/ 1.8 head and suku hollow intake cam (268 I think) w/ gsxr 1000 ITB's/TPS/rail/injectors setup running..... I just wanted to see if anyone had any input on fuel maps and spark maps for this setup. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


I'm going to put a wideband on tomorrow. This tuning business is hard.....the coolant temp sensor is reading very very high, its incorrect. And when you blip the throttle it jumps 25 degrees?










_Modified by Digital-K at 10:15 PM 10-12-2006_


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Passat tb question. (Digital-K)*

have you put it on a stim and made sure your setup is correct? 
check your bias resistors and the resistors very close to it and also check your db37 to make sure you dont have a missed solder tradce, check also the resistance acrosst eh wiring from the db37 to the terminals for your CTS... never know... also check if you have it wired to your tps or something, lol... TPS dependant coolant sensor!
and if you are using easy therm perhaps review it all and make sure you put in the right values under "SENSOR CALIBRATION"
Has anybody checked if a 1.8t or similar COP driver fits a 16v? I may have to try this out come spring!










_Modified by mxman at 3:42 PM 10-13-2006_


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: Passat tb question. (Digital-K)*

i combined a bunch of spark maps last night and threw it in the car and went for a drive. there was quite an improvement off-idle in the low-rpm/high-load range. no audible knock either, though my exhaust is pretty darn loud...
i had been running the map developed by martyn16v, as most of vortex is. so i started with that table and compared it to a tuned abf map and made a new table. the abf table added a bit more in the mid/upper rpm + high load band.
then i compared that to the stock 16v rocco table and added that in. the rocco table added a LOT more in the Lower/mid rpm band across the board. 
if anyone is interested in giving a try i could post it, i would love to hear some feedback on it. it feels better to me, but i honestly know very little about the ignition advance side of tuning. input would be great!


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Passat tb question. (mk2dubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk2dubbin* »_
then i compared that to the stock 16v rocco table and added that in. the rocco table added a LOT more in the Lower/mid rpm band across the board. 


Did you just take a couple of entries from that table or did you use the table that I converted it into ?...
I dont know if anyone has tried it yet, but a while ago i converted the vw 8x16 map into an msns 12x12 table. as soon as my wiring plugs and digi cup inserts come in i wanna use this as my base tune. i would have about 10 times already but i keep spending money on other non important things instead of car parts


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## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

Haven't any of you used extremely high advance numbers at idle? i got my kpa's down to 24 25 kpa and 14.7 :1 at idle with values around 25 or so near idle... aka... hella vacuum, my brakes worked better down there and the idle was much more stable...just a thought








BTW, it gives you the kind of torque you would have in an oem car where you can just let the clutch out and it pulls you away.










_Modified by mxman at 4:24 PM 10-15-2006_


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*

i am running 10/11 at idle and it seems to be fine. i would be interested in seeing your ignition table though since most of the surrounding numbers around there stock are low as you can see in the table above. how smooth are your transitions?


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

I would think the same thing, problems as soon as you're just above idle. any other opinions?


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

i bumped mine up to 15 at idle, and increased the surrounding bins accordingly to accomodate the increase. it felt fine on the way in to work this morning, but i hadnt adjusted my VE for the increase so my idle was at 1600. 
i dropped them down at lunch time, and will see how it does on the way home today. i didnt notice any knock coming off-idle so far, and it feels smooth and quick as he described. if all feels good i may keep it this high, but i doubt i will jump to [email protected]


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

25 at idle is awesome, this engine doesnt have that fast of a burning cylinderhead, come on, look at the stock map...friggin ... 45 degrees at like 3500 rpm... lol ... the car has a schwack load more torque, it now reminds me of my friends celica 3sge or whatever (nonturbo)
but ya, i dont think its warming up as fast, i would have no trouble with it being like... at 6 degrees dudes...but the thing is, it idles better but if you have it throwing 5-10 degrees of cold advance at the engine then it will soudn really scary if its hitting like 45 degrees or 30 when its at 3000, where i cruise...
****update
So Lance was telling me that low advance tends to be for short warmups and for better emmisions and 30kpa at idle is fine, you dont need much lower. So, for cold starts, barely any timing is good.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*

Interesting. BTW, I drove the Cabby into work today. Man is she ever great. 
MS is running really good. ONly thing I'd liek to get ironed out is the start-up. A cold start always takes 3 seperate cranks, then she catches no problem. Any tips?


----------



## Digital-K (Jul 13, 2006)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

if anyone wants to peek at this I could use some help...








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2880231
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bertelli (Aug 30, 2005)

Getting idle to work properly on MS is a nightmare. Recently was sent this link though, http://www.msextra.com/manuals...Fidle Gonna have another play with mine shortly.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (bertelli)*

lovre, what do you mean 3 seperate cranks? I assume you mean you are using the fidle to catch it after it starts... ?


----------



## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_Haven't any of you used extremely high advance numbers at idle? i got my kpa's down to 24 25 kpa and 14.7 :1 at idle with values around 25 or so near idle... 


What kind of cams are you running mxman? I'm running TT276's cams with MSnS-e fuel, but no spark yet. Going to set up spark this weekend so I can get the car to idle! I've found that I can make it idle with stock ignition at a high advance, but of course you can drive the car like that, so I'm hoping that more advance at idle in my MS ignition table will help that.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (NTRabbit)*

i have stockers, i was just trying to see what i could do with it, it definitely has more torque down low, my 16v seems to hate alot of timing, it responds with very coarse un smooth vibration and sometimes noise. It has a CRAPload of torque though. Trying to spin all the time. 
But yea, if you are camming, go with msns+e or ms2 with ignition cause...you can dial in some more, lance and the gang say that fuel does vacuum good but sometimes if the idles bouncing around the extra timing will keep it running, remember your cranking value is your threshold for starting , i had 30 degrees at 500 rpm but since my threshold was 450 or 425rpm it wouldnt ever slam into that...

hopefully this helps!


----------



## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_, lance and the gang say that fuel does vacuum good 


Are you saying that even with big cams I should be able to get good vacuum at idle, with a stock ignition setting of 6deg, by just managing the fuel at idle?


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (NTRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NTRabbit* »_Are you saying that even with big cams I should be able to get good vacuum at idle, with a stock ignition setting of 6deg, by just managing the fuel at idle? 

i am running autotech cams, and with spark @ 12deg at idle ive only gotten my map down to 45-50kpa. with 'big' cams, i doubt youre gonna see good vacuum at idle with only 6deg timing.


----------



## bertelli (Aug 30, 2005)

You won't get a good vac at idle with big cams, there is just too much overlap to keep it stable enough.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (bertelli)*

yeah, toss 20 degrees at it, its a non issue, you can run alot of advance right off of idle in the low rpm medium to low vac settings just toss plenty of fuel at it.... hell idled with 30 degrees vac, it was fine...
one of my buddies with a cammed v8 (302 ford saw 60-70kpa at idle)
try turning on a bunch of baro smoothing , i dont think ms1 has that though... boo ms1 blows ...jk









i think it supports 2 seperate map sensors, maybe that would help?
kalvinik knows about this ask him


----------



## neather1 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: (plohip)*


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_lovre, what do you mean 3 seperate cranks? I assume you mean you are using the fidle to catch it after it starts... ?

It takes three seperate key cranks to get the car to finally catch. The first time, the engien just turns over, nothing... Second time the engine barel;y catches. Third time it starts and idles!
This is onyl on cold start with the car sitting for ateast 8 hours. It is not temperature related. This happens wether it's -5'C outside of +20'C.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

Does ms1 have skip pulses? I know in Ms2 they put it right in the menu. Try a search in your ms1 or msns+e.ini file and find skip pulses if its in there.... in ms2 i changed it to 2 and it seemd to start faster...
also, you have time based under cranking trigger, change it to 1 second or something.. play with the values, maybe milliseconds...that should help start it easeir you would think
see in ms2 it has 3 pulses from the crank trigger before it starts...mayeb thats just how ms works... my car is exactly the same, the least ive ever had it turning over was 3 rotations too.

oh ya, maybe check your priming pulse and see if its CLT and MAT or if its just time based, or check your cranking pw's hopefully this helps










_Modified by mxman at 11:09 PM 10-19-2006_


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Passat TB brackets.*

I just bought a passat throttle body with tps and was wondering if I need a different throttle cable bracket than the scirocco version. The Passat TB did not come with the bracket and I don't see how the scirocco one will work. Thank you.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (sciroccoracer)*

my radioshack audio pot tps on the stock tbody works fine and i have an idle screw... suckers! 
that passat one looks like kind of a POS if i was to change anything i would get a welding shop to make a bracket up on the bottom of the tbody and get a D shaped tps rigged up or a chryco one where you could actuate it with a flat blade like a screwdriver.


----------



## rabbot16v (Jun 24, 2006)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_my radioshack audio pot tps on the stock tbody works fine and i have an idle screw... suckers!

any pics of how you set that up?


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (rabbot16v)*

hahahah its terrible but it works awesome, i have to use 4.5v/s for accel enrich though...








i just took a washer, welded a piece of single strand wire across it... notched out the potentiometer, made a bracket from a piece of aluminum and epoxied the washer to the throttleblade nut.. lol


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (mxman)*

Well, first morning at 0'C at my house, and the Rabbit didn't start. I fouled the plugs. Too much fuel I think.
Anyone else have starting probs?


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (cdn20VALVE)*

i updated my msns-e code to 029t last night. apparently 029Q has a bug in it that affects ASE and WUE. i couldnt ever get mine to start without the pedal, but after updating the code it fired right up first try with no pedal.


----------



## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (mk2dubbin)*

Hm... I noticed something funny when I switched to MSnSe with the 029Q too. My WUE light never turns off now. It will dim a little bit, but it is always on. I have also had a tough time with cold starts, but I thought that was because of all the re-tuning I have been doing. Maybe it is just the glitch you're talking about.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (NTRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NTRabbit* »_Hm... I noticed something funny when I switched to MSnSe with the 029Q too. My WUE light never turns off now. It will dim a little bit, but it is always on. I have also had a tough time with cold starts, but I thought that was because of all the re-tuning I have been doing. Maybe it is just the glitch you're talking about. 

I'm also running 029Q!!


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (cdn20VALVE)*

Update: I upgraded to the newest firmware. 029T. Wow, what a difference. Accell Enrichment is MUCH smoother, and she starts!
I drove her into work today. 
Now I just have to fix my broken rear muffler bushing. The exhaust is hanging low at the back.


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (cdn20VALVE)*

bout to switch over to 029t, but now with 029q i only have issues when the car is really cold...but i havnt really tuned to the cold start, just threw some base numbers at it...hoping the 029t solves that!!


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (VWralley)*

You guys should try out the high res code based of off 029t. I had it on the bunny before I sold it. The car was a totally different beast. I promise you wont regret it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Chris


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (Captain16vGTI)*

i've been out of the loop for a bit, what's the high res version?
I've been having runnning problems, but haven't been able to work on the car for over a month now. Don't know if it's MS or the car. Might have to give 29t a try.


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (DGruber58)*

The high res code pretty much runs the pulse width at a higher resolution. That's means that instead od a pw of 3.2 or something like that its now 3.218. The car will idle totally different and overall just drive better. Give it a try fellas.
-Chris


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (Captain16vGTI)*

Any else having problems with tons of TPS sensor noise? If anyone could hook me up with the resistance test numbers for the Passat TPS that would be awesome. I'm thinking my TPS must be screwed, because I was having troubles with it, ran a completely seperate ground, and wire loom for the signal back to MS, and i'm still getting mad noise. The car was running very well other than the noise triggering false AE's all over.


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## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (KingofNod)*

King, what code are you using?


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (Captain16vGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Captain16vGTI* »_The high res code pretty much runs the pulse width at a higher resolution. That's means that instead od a pw of 3.2 or something like that its now 3.218. The car will idle totally different and overall just drive better. Give it a try fellas.
-Chris

I upgraded to 029T, but how do I enable hi res... Or is it enabled by default?


----------



## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (Captain16vGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Captain16vGTI* »_The high res code pretty much runs the pulse width at a higher resolution. That's means that instead od a pw of 3.2 or something like that its now 3.218. The car will idle totally different and overall just drive better. Give it a try fellas.
-Chris

Does it increase the sampling rate of data out of MS?


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (NTRabbit)*

Alpha version 026h
I dunno really, its been awhile since I've bothered updating and whatnot.


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (cdn20VALVE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdn20VALVE* »_I upgraded to 029T, but how do I enable hi res... Or is it enabled by default?

http://sourceforge.net/project...05427
Its a totally differant code. You will need to download it and reflash it onto your ecu.


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (Captain16vGTI)*

thanks man!!
gonna try it this weekend


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (VWralley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWralley* »_thanks man!!
gonna try it this weekend









No prob http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (Captain16vGTI)*

i loaded it tonight, but my ecu didnt like it. it kept telling me i couldnt connect to the ecu when it was clearly connected... switched back to 029T and all was good. weird.


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (mk2dubbin)*

Switched to the high res code ?


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (Captain16vGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Captain16vGTI* »_Switched to the high res code ?

yea sorry, i tried the hi-res code and it didnt like it.


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Passat TB brackets. (mk2dubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk2dubbin* »_yea sorry, i tried the hi-res code and it didnt like it. 

Hmm. Thats weird.


----------



## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

Is a shielded wire needed to connect the hall sender signal wire to the ms unit on the vw 16v? I am using a relay board so I would need one section of shielded wire from the hall sender to the relay board and one more in the relay cable. I am getting ready to put the relay cable together and run it through the firewall so to add shielding later will not be fun. 
Chad


----------



## Sundie (Dec 15, 2004)

*Re: (chadr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chadr* »_Is a shielded wire needed to connect the hall sender signal wire to the ms unit on the vw 16v? I am using a relay board so I would need one section of shielded wire from the hall sender to the relay board and one more in the relay cable. I am getting ready to put the relay cable together and run it through the firewall so to add shielding later will not be fun. 
Chad

Nope. It's the ignition signal wire that needs shielding - the one that runs to the coil. That one will create a ton of noise.
It's not abolutely neccesary - you'll just have less gremlins in the end.
Cheers!


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (Sundie)*

so, yeah, i have a new setup for cold starts friends....

20 degrees of timing in the high vac low rpm section using the stock gti curve or rocco 16v crap..anyways...yeah..way more torque off the line...but ya... the cold advance is like 8 or 10 when the engine first fires... and then its -10 (soon to be -15)
this will help it warm up faster when the engine is cold... since it has so much advance
appaarently lots of advance is bad for a cold engine, it warms up slower... maybe a hot exhaust from the late explosion makes for a quicker warmin car


----------



## docspeed1 (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_so, yeah, i have a new setup for cold starts friends....


Hey Dale, I have a great setup for cold starts too! I turn the key, then the engine starts after a traditional 3-6 rotations! haha. Sorry mate, just another dig from a digi 2 evangelist! 
However, I am envisioning a snail in my future, so I may convert to MS yet! I'll be calling on you for help you can be sure!


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

Quick question. Should decel only be occuring in the time that the TPS is returning to idle position, or the entire time the gas has been released? When I let off the gas, my AFR is still very rich, and the decel light in realtime goes out as soon as the pedal stops moving back out. Is that correct?


----------



## bertelli (Aug 30, 2005)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

Decel will just flash on - like accel does as you come off the throttle, you can run quite lean during decel, its worth checking the VE table isn't too rich in the high rpm, low map areas.


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: (bertelli)*

I need some help with installing my megasquirt. I am using MS v2.2 for fuel only.Im not shure if I need to run my coolant temp sensor to the MS or If I can leave it connected to the stock ecm. And im not shure what to do witht he vaccum lines that went to the intake tube. Since I have to change it to a short ram. What items do I need to hookup to the MS. (fuel pump, coolant temp sensors, etc) Thanks for the help. DOES ANYONE HAVE A BLANK OFF PLATE FOR THE COLD START VALVE?
Here is my car 


























_Modified by sciroccoracer at 7:26 PM 11-6-2006_


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (sciroccoracer)*

you're gonna have to have a coolant temp sensor for ms to run. you can either make a gm one fit somewhere, or use your stock one and easytherm it. 
at a minimum, you're going to need a coolant temp sensor, mat sensor, vac. signal, a tps (you dont absolutly need this, but i wouldnt go w/o it), and thats about it for fuel minus fuel injector wiring, power, switched and ground. 
as far as a block off plate goes, i just made my own. i dont know if theres one commercially availiable. 
nice rocco btw http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
i think most of the info you're looking for should be on the front page of this thread. just out of curiosity, what ignition setup are you running?
-Drew


_Modified by NJRrado at 10:30 PM 11-6-2006_


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

The things you need are clearly on the first page but if you want to message me or instant message me on aim or something send me a quick IM im happy to help dude!

So boys, good news, im hitting 100% duty cycle at only 5500 rpms in 1st gear and 2nd...that tells me i have to change to some g60 injectors DARN makin too much power!







I hope i can dyno tune it next year!

the gm sensor fits int eh stock location with a passat or something coolant flange on the side of the head... well not stock.. you get my idea... anyhow, take a stock digi2 plug from the neck and drill and tap it to 3/8th npt and then use rtv to seal it in...







it works good on my car and its in -10 the mat i just used a piece of pvc and the 16v boot and tapped the pvc pipe!








msg me if you want, i have some buddies in ma that could help you prolly... 



_Modified by mxman at 11:22 PM 11-7-2006_


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (mxman)*

issam from boost factory has those, goto the link on the first page of this thread, i just used a fricken piece of metal or plastic and rtv'd it over with the stock bolts with some washers









and morley! whats up bro! anywho... yea man, my megasquirt starts after 3 turns like before i just meant i need to find the best combo to keep it running plus run the factory timing curve








go on msn some time jackass ill give you a hand!


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re:  (mxman)*

Do I have to use a seperate o2 sensor than the one in the car already? 
Acording to the first page I need a CTS , Inlet air temp sensor, vac line, and a tps. Am I missing anything?


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (sciroccoracer)*

are you building your meagsquirt ? I recommend it, buying one built is retarded and you will end up having so many q's you will be sick


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: (mxman)*

I bought it unassembled and have already built it. I am installing it and the relay board now.


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: (mxman)*

how much of a difference did the MS make with your 16v?


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_are you building your meagsquirt ? I recommend it, buying one built is retarded and you will end up having so many q's you will be sick

that statement should be striken from the record. there is no reason that you couldnt buy an assembled unit, install it and completly understand it. 
i have done about 5 MSnS 16v conversions an i have never built anything for the MS myself. each time ive used a pre-assembled unit with absolutly no issues what so ever.
whats wrong with having questions? not everyone can just read a few diagrams, and some info an understand everything. you confuse me to no end


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (VWralley)*

For all of your references my car runs best at 18-25 degrees advance when fully hot at idle with the stock 16v ignition table. It idles around 24kpa @ 1200 rpm, I want to do some more work with the afr and timing when cold, it idles fine when its cold at 800 rpm but I need to find a happy medium. Problem is it warms up pretty quickly so i dont have much time to set it!
***
I kind of scrapped the whole cold retard schema on my car.. it just didnt run that well. I just blocked my radiator instead and run alot of timing since i am running 10% ethanol fuel... 94 octane reg 92 octane...but yeah... my home made tps went out again. I think I might start making tps adapters cheap for 16v's those passat tbodies are crap.. the stock gti ones are much better seemingly. If i can find a cheap DIGIKEY cermet tps from CTS or something I will give r a go!
BTW, the new 2.687 code for ms2 is the ****. Alot of small things are fixed finally. And you can set your warmup wizard points!


_Modified by mxman at 3:33 PM 11-15-2006_


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (mxman)*

I've been having some running problems. Posted on msefi, maybe someone here knows.
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=150813#150813
thanks


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

I requested to have this thread stickied...but no word as yet.
Is there anything you guys are interested in?


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I requested to have this thread stickied...but no word as yet.
Is there anything you guys are interested in?

I would like a blanking plate for the cold start valve.


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (sciroccoracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciroccoracer* »_I would like a blanking plate for the cold start valve. 

agreed


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (sciroccoracer)*

I've got one I had lasercut, along with a 36-1 trigger wheel for 16v crank pulleys. I'll take a picture of both items when I get to my parents house later today/tomorrow.
Also, I need some assistance with my MSII. I let my car sit for a month and a half, and now I cannot seem to get it started. I tried all sorts of things to no avail; the engine wouldn't even sputter. I pulled the unit out of the car and stuck it on the stimulator, which verified the injectors and ignition outputs were OK. For some reason I decided it would be a good idea to try the latest stable release, because I had been running a beta release of the MSII code. So, eager to get things going, I flashed my firmware, but had forgot to save my settings before hand. That, combined with a re-install of WindowsXP two weeks ago meant I had no settings to go off of anymore :\
As it stands now, I inputted all the correct ignition settings I had written down, and put everything to what I remembered it to be. Now I can get the engine to cough a little, but not fully catch. If anyone can point me in an appropriate direction, or give me some good warmup/VE settings, I would appreciate it. With 18 credits this term, 20 hours of work a week and around 20 hours of homework per week, I am short on time!
Here are my current settings:
Ignition
Trigger Offset: 68 degrees
Predictor Alg: 1st high, 2nd low
Next-Pulse Tolerance, cranking: 50%
Ignition Input Capture: Rising Edge
Cranking trigger: trigger rise
Coil charging scheme: standard
Spark output: going high
spark duration: 2.0ms
Warmup enrichments
-40: 180
-20: 180
0: 160
20: 150
40: 120 Current Temperature is around 45
60: 115
80: 113
100: 108
130: 102
160: 100
Pulsewidth at -40: 12
pulsewidth at 160: 3
Afterstart enrichment: 25%
VE table is the megatune generated table for a 1.8l, which is what I used to get my car started originally.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

set it to calculated and going high inverted, set your req fuel a bit higher and throw 10 degrees of timing for all your cold advance bins until like 40 degrees...
oh ya and use last interval not 1st high 2nd low or whatever..








your 25% is way too low btw, id put in like 60 or at least 40..
get the new firmware, 2.678 works awesome, and you can have a table instead of that 2 point crap... 
set yoru -40f pulsewidth for around 25ms and around 2ms at 160f
(req fuel 16.8, 1 bank of injectors, 19lb'r's, low 30s in the ve table at idle and no idle valve selected.)
msg me on aim you foqqr



_Modified by mxman at 9:52 PM 11-21-2006_


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (mxman)*

Speaking of Afterstarts, can you guys throw me some numbers that seem to be working for you? As well as your injector size. I'm running G60 injectors (21lb/hr), but I'm having a hell of a time getting this thing to fire up and stay idling from a dead cold start without keeping my foot on the gas for at least 30 seconds before carefully walking it down to idle (reving and just letting off gas makes it stall, even when warm sometimes, even though my warm idle is high at like 1200 RPM). Is it just because im running no ISV of any kind? Might have to just deal with it if thats the case. Has anyone found a somewhat decent solution to an idle control valve that works? VW or other brand valves.


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

g60 injectors flow 285cc with your 3.5bar fpr, assuming you still have it installed. 3.0bar they flow 264cc.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

Just thought I would let you guys know that 36lb injectors are so big.... that revving my friends car to turn on his crappy alternator will stall out his engine. Turns out the 3.5 volt increase from the alternator causes the injectors to spray so much more fuel that the engine just goes kaput!







The digi II injector harness I had laying around definitely needs to be modified to an alternating harness for these 36 pounders to work!!!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_Has anyone found a somewhat decent solution to an idle control valve that works? VW or other brand valves.

I am working on getting a 3 wire VW Bosch idle valve working. However I am slowly getting there. I figured out how to get a factory Toyota MR2 PWM valve up and running, but I have not tried the factory VW valves yet.
I will try to post up what I got figured out so that someone else can try.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

Quick question:
is it possible to run an ICM with MS2 V3? i don't want to use direct coil control as that just does not work for me at all







no sparkyspark)
anyhow.. what do i have to do to run ICM ? anyone done this?

thanks


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

hey dude, did you remember to set your ignition to going high inverted? did you run a cable from db36 to your coils negative terminal? these are all things that arent in the ms2 manual...
i made my relay harness, then realized i had to run a cable between the pin 36 so i could use the tach? terminal on the relayboard off of my coil. 
msg me on msn


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

put a capacitor on the alternator charge wire if this is a big issue....
that alternating stuff sounds like a crappy way of doing it since its just piling fuel up in the intake mani anyways? maybe you need to just tinker a bit more with some XTAU? 
I dont even use xtau, i dont think i need it


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_I am working on getting a 3 wire VW Bosch idle valve working. However I am slowly getting there. I figured out how to get a factory Toyota MR2 PWM valve up and running, but I have not tried the factory VW valves yet.
I will try to post up what I got figured out so that someone else can try.

Please keep us updated. I need to figure out a functional idle control system to keep my idle RPM acceptable, and cold running not such a pain.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_hey dude, did you remember to set your ignition to going high inverted? did you run a cable from db36 to your coils negative terminal? these are all things that arent in the ms2 manual...
i made my relay harness, then realized i had to run a cable between the pin 36 so i could use the tach? terminal on the relayboard off of my coil. 
msg me on msn


Yeah! i did! done all that **** actually! still no sparkyspark for me


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

Do you see cranking RPM when you try to start it up? Or no signal at all? Because, running an ICM is actually more complicated then just using direct coil control. It just adds one more thing to the mess. Have you verified that your coil is being triggered? You can do that by checking DC voltage between the positive of the battery and negative of the coil. While cranking you should see a small amount of voltage, maybe up to 3 volts or so. If you see nothing, you are not triggering your coil. If you see something, but you get no spark, your timing is most likely so far off that the coil is firing when your rotor is completely out of alignment with your distributer cap contacts. These are problems that will come up with the wrong spark output settings, regardless of whether you run an independent ICM or direct coil control. I scrolled back a couple of pages, but could not find details of your setup or problems. Provide them all on one page and maybe we can help you out.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

I did see rpm when i cranked!... for a while.. then the rpm stopped..








and this happend.. burned the VB


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

it seems hes missing the transistor for the current limitting circuit, so maybe what happened he was trying to turn over his engine... and it had crank signal etc adn the dwell went through the roof but the currnent limitting wasnt there so ti blew his VB921? i would recheck everythign with the stim and check the componetns on the board
my ms2 has all the parts installed...







cept d1 and d2..








get a new vb921 and install the missing parts...good luck!


----------



## betajetta (May 29, 2006)

*how do you install a LC-1 with megasquirt?*

i have a 2.2 board with a VB921 for ignition and a LC-1, and i am getting ready to hook everything up but i am wondering what wire or wires you run into the megasquirt ECU? im assuming its either the brown or yellow but im not sure. i got my LC-1 from a friend and it didnt come with any instructions. i know alot of you guys have used them so can you please share how the heck you hooked it up? i heard you also need a 470ohm resistor inline with the anolog in?
any help would be appreciated....a diagram would be great.


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: how do you install a LC-1 with megasquirt? (betajetta)*

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support.php
The instruction manual is available as a .pdf here. I think the 'output 2' is configured for wideband output. Either way, it's all in there.
I installed a resistor in my analogue out trying to figure out some issues, but it made no difference. I'd rather have it there if it is helping I guess http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I found the wires a bit piddly thin to work with, but I guess that's the nature of the device


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: how do you install a LC-1 with megasquirt? (infront)*

my MS stuff is on its way...and im up to pg 10 of this thread








if anyone has some specific suggestions or startingpoints for my setup, pls LMK
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2970416
TIA


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*no spark??*

I have removed my cis fuel dizzy and plan on running my fuel on megasquirt. I have most of the kit installed but realized that I have no spark. I just took out the engine and rebult it but did not remoave any of the coil wiring. The coil is new last year and I was wondering if i needed to have the old fuel wiring hooked to anything to get spark? I know this is vague but any ideas would be great. 
I am running MS v2.2 fuel only here are a couple of pics.


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: no spark?? (sciroccoracer)*

you can use a cis-e knockbox to control spark, or convert to msns extra code and use MS to control it. The first post has some ignition related links, check those out


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: no spark?? (DGruber58)*

I have the original cis-e knock box and computer to run spark. I am only using the MS to run fuel. Nothing was changed on the factory computer and it worked before I pulled the motor. I was wondering if not having a couple of the fuel system components plugged in will cause no spark?


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: no spark?? (sciroccoracer)*

your ign should be able to function just fine w/o the fuel setup hooked up, double check your wiring on the coil to the box, that is what tells the ecu that the engine is tryin to run and needs spark from what i can remember from when i did this same thing (this was almost 2 years ago mind you)


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: no spark?? (VWralley)*

thank you. I will take a look.


----------



## betajetta (May 29, 2006)

*Re: V2.2 now has coil control in 3 easy steps (86JettaWolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *86JettaWolfsburg* »_I;m sure someone else has done this already, but I figured I'd share how I duplicated the VB921 circut from V3 on the V2.2 board. Now I don't need the Bosch Ignition Module.
*Step One*
On top of the board the pins of the VB921 are jumpered to:
1 - the right side of R25 with 330 ohm resistor in line(to CPU)
2 - JP7 (ground)
3 - to X13 (coil signal out)








*Step Two*
The Jumpers on the bottom of the board are following MidnightGLI's diagram. JP8 to Pin24 (5v out to the hall) and XG1 to X11 (hall signal back in).
X13 to Pin29 is for the coil signal. The VB921 has a higher current than the origional trace could stand.








*Step Three*
Attach the VB921 to the top of the case.
That's it.

Here's how the circut and wiring looks:










i have my 2.2 board modded like this and i cant get RPM or pulse width to work on my 2.1 stimulator...does the stimulator have to be modded somehow???
im also having trouble getting it to trigger the coil but im working on that now...ill post later if i cant get it to work.


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: no spark?? (VWralley)*

OK just real quick - I got my "used MS" stuff from PowerDubs in the mail yesterday - so last night i opened the case....
the main board is a v2.2, with a msns-e daughter board.
I'll figure out how its wired, jumpered etc, but what basically are the capabilities?


----------



## betajetta (May 29, 2006)

*Re: no spark?? (OhioBenz)*

hey man, i still got your cell number. i just got my 2.2 sparking but i still need to fiddle with the trigger angle to get it started. but when i get my car going if you want i can come up to amish country and help you with your megasquirt install and bring the money for those plug wires i still owe you for. send me an IM sometime and ill come up and help you.
MS 2.2 with msns-extra has alot of capabilities. you can run ignition if it has a VB921 installed in it, or you can run a Bosch ignition module as long as the pigtail has 6 wires. I built mine with a VB921 which acts as the ignition module. ill let you know how it works.
can you post a pic of what your board looks like? then maybe we can go from there. im kinda confused of what you mean by daughter card but maybe a pic will help me. it could be a circuit someone made for ignition.


----------



## betajetta (May 29, 2006)

*Re: no spark?? (betajetta)*

ok....i got my car sparking with the 2.2 board and a single VB921, but it is only sparking one plug. im assuming its because i have an ABA with a single window shutter in the dizzy and not a 4 like the older cars. so would ordering an adapter from techtonics to put a dizzy from a 1.8 with a 4 window shutter make all the plugs work??????
let me know what you guys think bc i need to order it asap if it will fix the problem


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: no spark?? (betajetta)*

are you running an ABA bottom? It has the 60-2 wheel right on the crank with a Hall sensor in the block....
Is it possible to use that for signal instead of a distributor? Thats why the ABA only has a sinle window shutter i thought...the data comes from the crank.


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: no spark?? (OhioBenz)*

I created this folder on Hotdub.com - it seemed so many older pix were no longer accessible so if anyone has old pix in this thread, or new ones, either send them to me with a page where they are supposed to be in this thread and I'll get them back in/on.
If you have pix you want to post - Hotdub.com isnt going anywhere - register and as long as its VW related you can put pix up and link to them without restrictions.
http://www.hotdub.com/pictures...um=38


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: no spark?? (betajetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *betajetta* »_
can you post a pic of what your board looks like? then maybe we can go from there. im kinda confused of what you mean by daughter card but maybe a pic will help me. it could be a circuit someone made for ignition.









msns-e daughter card w/ jumpers....








Back side of daughter card








main v2.2 board








back of main board








connector end of case.


----------



## betajetta (May 29, 2006)

*Re: no spark?? (OhioBenz)*

look like that board is modded pretty good. did you get a wiring diagram with it? it looks like it has circuitry to hook up a crank trigger?
i just got my 2.2 wired up and my 1 window shutter in my ABA only lights up one plug and fires one injector, so i have to wait till i get an adapter to put a 1.8L 4 window dizzy in my car.
im just getting into 2.2 board stuff, ive been a V3.0 board person, but somehow i ended up with a 2.2 board.
if you have a diagram it will help alot. otherwise its gonna take some time to find all the outputs and what that thing is capable of.


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: no spark?? (betajetta)*

no i got nothing with it.....
where can i find a schematic for the msns-e card?
i found one for the v. 2.2 board so thats a start


_Modified by OhioBenz at 9:58 PM 12-15-2006_


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: no spark?? (OhioBenz)*

hahahaha holy **** ohio hahaha..your board is nuts... v3 man v3!!!
So yeah, I accidentally touched my relay board - to + on the battery cuz of the cold wires. But yeah, I blew the hall, I blew the opto isolator and replaced it with a 4n35 i got free, i had a bent vane on the 16v dizzy allt his time frmo when i bought the engine from my buddy 3 years ago... its been grinding on the hall ever since... hahaha
So ya, the opto blew, i moved my pullup onto the jumper under the map sensor on the board to s12 on the board and i am running it at 12volts right now.
The 4n35 almost seems to make the car run smoother. I don't have a working TPS i think i prolly connected it wrong or something...haha.. I think i am going to install the gm 4 wire stepper motor for idle control soon. and a passat tbody finally ...haha ya ya


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

i found some info on the msns-e board - designed by Jacob Huh...
it allows for sequential shift lights, NOS, Boost control valve, Launch control. EGT logging and several other input/outputs. Not a bad board really. This one is wired for a turbo setup.... I might pull it and build one for the NA this setup is going into.
I havent figured out what the 2.2 is wired for yet - but it came with a really nice harness and a fuseblock board. Its set up for injection


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

dope bro, sounds like a good peice of equipment.
just so you guys know, you do not need a TPS for megasquirt, you can use map only enrichment... but you will NOT HAVE FLOOD CLEAR... maybe you could rig up something with the switches on the tbody, say a 5v charge going down one wire with the other end of the wot switch on a resistor dropping the 5v to ground or have a resistor dropping hte 5v all the time and then going to 0 for wot... basically when you have a tps you have two outer terminals and the center is the wiper...
the wiper varies the voltage from 0->5v or 5v->0 depending on polarity ..... *adjusts glasses* 8f


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OhioBenz* »_This one is wired for a turbo setup.... I might pull it and build one for the NA this setup is going into.

i dont know that you would have to rewire anything to run it NA, but i may be missing something. MSNS-E can handle whatever you throw at it. all you should have to do to run NA is change the maps for the most part...


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

autotune in ms2 is great haha... i set mine to burn every 10 minutes or something i should shut it off now that its pretty good though


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

hi guys, i've recently purchased MS1V3, with a knock sensor add on and the bosch module for my ignition... 
my problem is, i do not have the CIS-E igniton. my car is the EV 8v Gti with vacuum advance dizzy...
will the bosch module still be good to work with this setup?
thanks









_Modified by NasTnaS at 1:41 PM 12-21-2006_


_Modified by NasTnaS at 1:42 PM 12-21-2006_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*

Well the vacuum advance dizzy is an interesting question. The MSnS-E setup acts like the CIS-E knock box in that it controls when the ignition module fires the coil (IE advances/retards the ignition). A MS V3 board however should have an ignition module built in. A vacuum advance Dizzy would mean the distributor itself advances the ignition correct? At that point you would need to set the MSnS-E timing to "Fixed" so you did not interfere with the vacuum advance.
The Bosch module with the vacuum advance *and knock sensor*(revised) would provide an indicator of knock, but the MS could not do much about it except record that it happened.

However, purchasing/junkyarding a non vacuum advance dizzy should be an easy task and it should bolt right in. With that distributor, the MS can control ignition advance *through a Bosch ignition module or the V3 boards built in module* and it can trigger the MS to retard the timing should your knock sensor setup detect any pinging/knock. So with a standard digi II 8v dizzy you get the benefits of a customizable ignition map and ignition retard.

I hope that makes sense!











_Modified by GTIMan82 at 2:29 PM 12-27-2006_


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

my part number on the ignition module is 191 905 351 B, instead of 211 905 351 B [which the Megamanual recommends] i will revert to the Standard Passat 9a KE motronic Distributor which was originally there... lets hope all goes well...
thanks alot for that, and yes it made Great sense


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

just finished reading through the thread, (Had to do something while out with the stomach flu for the last 3 days)
this has really helped me decide what I needed.
I just want to verify a few things
I'm looking at ms1 v2.2
1. do I need any hardware like a daughter board to run MSnS-E?
2. I can run ignition coil directly without the bosch icm with the VB921 mod listed in the thread? or do I need to still wire it through the icm.
3. I can run my isv of the fidle, after I upgrade the electonics?
4. I can input a wide band o2 and knock sensor(with appropriate electronics)

also why is having dwell control of the ignition coil worth while?


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (weeblebiker)*

1. no, you do not need the daughter board
2. yes. The vb921 replaces the icm.
3. uh, ideally yes, but I'm not sure if anyone has successfully used MS to control the stock ISV
4. yes. ms knocksense iirc. and most widebands have controllers that interface with ms. innovative is popular, and cheap(er) at $200
not sure why it's worth while. I'd say whatever is easier for you, the vb921 or using the icm, will produce the same results. Maybe for a race application where every last detail is crucial you might be able to adjust the dwell for specific needs.


----------



## Knappsterx (Feb 18, 2003)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

The ICM serves two very important purposes. First, it takes care of dwell for you, and second, it acts as a buffer between the coil and the ecu (hence, the heatsink). At first I ran without an ICM and the coil would sometimes backfeed to the ecu. Fortunately I have v3.0 so the flyback circuitry protected my vb921 from getting fried, but in doing so it left me without ignition for a few seconds...not cool. I'm wired in the ICM and have been golden ever since.


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (Knappsterx)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif what I was looking for in a reply. thanks fellas
another question before I whip out the checkcard.
I was reading through all the features that MSnS-E suports and I'm kinda drooling over them








I'm envisioning knock control, using the wheelspin feature to control missed shifts(bouncing off the syncros) shift lights, and all the goodies that can be used when I drop a snail on the back.
so which is better for enabling all these features?
v2.2 with a daughter board
or 
v3
nm
just did more reading, v2.2 it is, I can make a daughter board










_Modified by weeblebiker at 3:30 AM 12-29-2006_


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## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

v3 ms2 is pretty sweet, v3 ms1 with extra firmware soundsl ike fun
they're dragging their asses on the megasquirt 2 extra...although ive seen the code, and ive seen the ignition development and it looks promising the only real benefit atm of ms2 is more ignition options supposedly. 
so yea, vac advance dizzy? toss it and get a digifant dizzy and you are set...

unless, you can get a megasquirt 2, it will run on points or any manner of old style dizzy, you're going to have to lock the dizzy mechanism OR... just run oem timing








these megasquirtted vws really dont need the ignition control.. unless you want to fiddle with the dwell etc..but hey my 2c


_Modified by mxman at 5:20 PM 12-29-2006_


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## ZyRott89 (Apr 22, 2005)

MS I V.3 Board MSnS ---- ARE THESE the proper Jumpers for this setup!???
My Current applicatoin:
VW 16v ABA Turbo.
- MSnS MS I V.3
- I will be running stock 16v Dizzy *hall sensor* with the stock coil.
- There is no Igition Module
Jumpered
TACHSELECT <-> OPTOIN
IGBTOUT <-> IGN
TSEL <-> OPTOOUT
XG1 <-> XG2
IGBTIN ---(330k Ohm Resistor)---> Top lead of R29
Are these the proper Jumpers? Do i need any other or am I set. to go as is?


----------



## ZyRott89 (Apr 22, 2005)

anyone?


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

hi guys, my megasquirt has arrived from EFI4TUNING and was wondering if anyone is using GM CLT and IAT sensors on a stock 9a 16v?
thanks...


----------



## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

Ok I'm right in the middle of my MSI assembly and I have a couple quick questions. Hope this is the right way to post instead of starting a new thread.
I'm currently working on MSI PCB V3 for a 86 Jetta GLI (standard CIS setup and engine)
I eventually want to go MSnSE with spark control and a knock box.
My questions:
1.I'm assuming that I can't setup the spark out now because it may short something out running MSI?or on the STIM?
I'm at the point in assembly where I choose my input for tach and my outputs
2. Should I setup my board for PWM Idle Valve? I've read somewhere here that there is some issues with ISV and PWM in MSNSX? For the 86 GLI which would be best? 
3. Looks like in step 65 MS assembly that I can install Hight Current Ignition driver? is this where I would use the V3 MSnSX mod's from this link to set it up for later spark control? Will these mods affect my stim?
4. When I install on my 86 Jetta GLI can I draw signal from ICU pin 7? if I'm running fuel only and using it for signal?
Hope these questions aren't redundant. It's been awhile since I read this post completely and I'm in the middle of the build and these questions were crossing mine.
Thanks for your time
SS33


----------



## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NasTnaS* »_hi guys, my megasquirt has arrived from EFI4TUNING and was wondering if anyone is using GM CLT and IAT sensors on a stock 9a 16v?
thanks...

Yes. I am using both, but it's not really stock.


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (Knappsterx)*

started assembly http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
a good suggestion for people with no soldering experience: perform all the ground connections on the sockets first, there are a bunch of em and if you oversolder one you aren't hurting anything.
it's what i did anyway, but it's going really easy, soldering the pin sockets let me get my temp setting and timing dialed in.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (weeblebiker)*

follow the assembly guide or dont even bother putting it together yourself
as for jumpers, look at step 65 in the assembly guide
as for gm sensors, yeah im runnin gm sensors...
the air temp sensor is in a piece of pvc pipe in between a digi2 boot and motronic boot tapped with a 3/8th npt tap...and the coolant temp i installed in a factory blank from a digi2 piece... i just tapped it and sliced it down and siliconed it into the threads tapped with the npt tap again....







you might have to file your head, i did... make sure you dont have 2 o rings in ther,e lol i took me 30 minutes to figure that out one day...







anyhow, good luck
btw, halfway through winter, ms2 is working fine still, i need a fidle valve badly, f'ing CWS tuning, lol cam is so lazy he didnt pull my passat tbody or my oldschool FIDLE valve $%@%@%
btw the 16v doesnt seem to like the stock map + 10->20 degrees of advance LOL when cold that is... it makes this weird ticking, oh well LOL


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (mxman)*

who needs a stinking assembly guide?








I was talking about soldering the ground pins first on the first 2 items soldered on the board, the db37 and db9 to get a few practice joints done before the joint quality mattered http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
so it's together now and I have a few more Q's:
what are people using for a db9 to usb connection?
then on to software, I have:
easytherm
megatune 2.25
megatweak3000
MSnS-E 029t
any other software I need/ or better than I have?


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## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (ZyRott89)*

Zyrotte, your settings look good... put a pullup resistor, 1k ohm from s12 on the bottom of the board (verify it has 12v, by energizing the megasquirt with your stimulator..) this is if you are using a 12v supply to the hall, i think gtiman would be happy to answer if this works for 5v as well.... send him an IM
xg1 -> xg2 is just to ground one of the legs of hte ignition circuit, if you have big problems with noise, i believe they say ground this straight to the engine or battery in the manaula nd it should help.
in ms2 you need to make sure your relay cable has pin 36 of the db37 wired up so your megasquirt can ground your ignition coil to give you spark...
you can check for ignition events like this but for some reason it says it can damage the megasquirt 2 cpu, so maybe leave it be.








btw all this crap is in the previous pages and in the megamanual








after you do all this bs, see if your car has RPM in megatune
(btw, my pullup resistor is from s12 to the jumper under the map sensor. Near the Db37)
all my posts are yammering, if it helps perfect, lol dont take it as the best advice otu there, all i know is my **** works


_Modified by mxman at 3:57 PM 1-8-2007_


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## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

just read the entire thread, when i reached page 4, im not sure, i ordered my MS1V3...
there should be a link from megamanual to this topic... this is really helpful.
cheers


----------



## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (weeblebiker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weeblebiker* »_
what are people using for a db9 to usb connection?


http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=3410
and I bought http://www.diyautotune.com/cat....html


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## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

yeah matt at diy is a good guy, he helped me when i blew the opto isolator out... 
one thing for you 16v'rs, check your shutters and ma ke sure they arent rubbing against the hall... this made my car run kind of crapola.. now it runs pretty awesome....


----------



## G60syncro (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (mxman)*

Here's another question... If I'm building a 16v out of an ABA bottom end, can I use the factory crank trigger with MS-II and run a distributor-less ignition system???
Please discuss. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Fuel only.*

I need a bit of help. I am running ms v2.2 on my scirocco 16v. But I am only using it to control fuel. So I am confused about what I need to wire into the relay board. Do I need to wire the o2 sensor. fuel pump etc? My stock computer should run these normally correct? Also if i wanted to run spark what would I have to add?
Thank you in advance. 











_Modified by sciroccoracer at 7:47 PM 1-17-2007_


----------



## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: Fuel only. (sciroccoracer)*

I'm just finishing my PCB 3.0 MS now. I'm not going to use a relay board. Looks like just more wiring to me. You need to wire the O2 and fuel pump thru the MS so I would say yes run them thru the relay board also. The O2 the MS uses for closed loop operation and the fuel pump needs to go thru the fuel pump relay, but be attached to the ms so if there is no idle or the engine dies because of a wreck the ms sees the no RPM and kills the fuel pump from pumping gas all over the place.
Just my $.02
I'm really a novice here and hopefully someone more knowledgeable will sound in
BTW I have 2 16v scirocco's and I'll be squirting them after my 1st is done on my Jetta for practice.
HTH
SS33










_Modified by sharpshooter33 at 12:04 AM 1-18-2007_


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (G60syncro)*

Sure Can, the megasquirt site has a complete listing of what needs to be done for a crank trigger wheel ignition system. Here is a quick link. 
http://www.megasquirt.info/megatune.htm#st
Basically you setup MS-II with a variable reluctor (VR) ignition circuit. In megatune you setup the trigger wheel information and now your MS-II knows how to interpret the crank trigger ignition.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

apparently to run coilpacks or distributorless you need a TDC reset like a missing tooth or something in the mix... "oh crap its 360 degrees later, gotta reset"
the hall sensor just breaks the magnetic field so it will work forwards or backwards and still pulse the coil negative firing the ignition coil


----------



## G60syncro (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_apparently to run coilpacks or distributorless you need a TDC reset like a missing tooth or something in the mix... "oh crap its 360 degrees later, gotta reset"
the hall sensor just breaks the magnetic field so it will work forwards or backwards and still pulse the coil negative firing the ignition coil

Which is why I was asking, because the ABA crank does have the "missing tooth"... I guess I'll pop my ABA crank in the Golf and keep the 2.0 16v one for the Passat... Great info, thanks guys!!
**Edit** Just clearing up my info: The Golf will get it's 9A bottom end taken out and replaced with an OBDII ABA block. I already have an OBDI bottom for my Passat but I'll keep the digi-1 setup on it so I won't need the sensor in the block, so:
Passat 16v-G60 gets OBDI ABA block with knife edged 9A crank and Digi-1
Golf 16v gets OBDII ABA block with OBDI ABA forged crank and MS running off the crank trigger.


_Modified by G60syncro at 4:04 PM 1-22-2007_


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: Fuel only. (sharpshooter33)*

you cant just pop the crank in unless you use an ABA block you wont have the sensor mounting hole...right???
or am i missing something here?


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Fuel only. (OhioBenz)*

yeah word, the 9a block has no crank sensor location....

so boys, uhh, ya i put my passat tbody in finally, the cable mount isnt the same so i pulled some slack out of it... i fired the car up and drove it around... omfg, does that thing ever rev fast with the 8lb flywheel, i am really going to have to take some video or something, its hilarious... 
I have a friggin rear seal leak with 5w30 mobil1 so i hope it goes away when i go to thicker oil..


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Fuel only. (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_
I have a friggin rear seal leak with 5w30 mobil1 so i hope it goes away when i go to thicker oil..

good luck


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

ok, guys, my MS is all wired up, i've put all the constants from the 1st page into MT, have not tried starting yet, because i cant hear my fuel pump, so i dont think it is working. before i attempted the MS i could hear my fuel pump. however on MT, in the green tab on the bottom, it says my Fuel pump is on when i try to start it. 
any help much appreciated.
my car is was a 1991 jetta 8V CIS now running a 9a 2ltr 16v on MS1V3 ver 029q.
im using DIGI II injectors and FPR, i've wired the fuel pump through the fuse box. i've pulled out the fuel pump fuse, and went about it that way, i saw the link on the first page of this thread. im using the bosch module ATM, hopefully when it starts and runs, ill go with the direct drive VB.
come on GURUS, help me out pls



_Modified by NasTnaS at 1:01 AM 1-23-2007_


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: Fuel only. (L33t A2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *L33t A2* »_
good luck

i wouldn't count on it changing with thicker oil....


----------



## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Fuel only. (OhioBenz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OhioBenz* »_
i wouldn't count on it changing with thicker oil....

I've heard when people change from normal oil to synthetic, they have a tendency to develop leaks on high mileage motors, might be worth a shot to try a heavier cheap oil, but most likely you're hosed.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NasTnaS* »_ok, guys, my MS is all wired up, i've put all the constants from the 1st page into MT, have not tried starting yet, because i cant hear my fuel pump, so i dont think it is working. before i attempted the MS i could hear my fuel pump. however on MT, in the green tab on the bottom, it says my Fuel pump is on when i try to start it. 
_Modified by NasTnaS at 1:01 AM 1-23-2007_

The fuel pump should be audible just like before, so it sounds like a wiring issue or a blown fuse. The MT is saying "hey im trying to make your fuel pump run", but for whatever reason it is not. 
The factory fuel pump relay is triggered by a ground or by 12V. I cant remember off the top of my head. MS triggers a fuel pump relay with a ground. So in this case you need to make sure the factory relay is looking for a ground to operate. If its not, you can bypass the factory relay by installing your own.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Fuel only. (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_
I have a friggin rear seal leak with 5w30 mobil1 so i hope it goes away when i go to thicker oil..

Dont count on it, its time to practice removing the trans again.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

thanks dude....
also, im having some trouble with easytherm.
im using my bosch CLT and my GM IAT. can some tell me how to downlaod the new thermistor tables to my MSnS E ecu.
its MS1V3 029q MSnS E using the bosch ICM.
thanks.
and my msn is [email protected]


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*

yeah when i setup megasquirt 2 and had all those [email protected]%@$%@$ 
problems with the ignition control algorithm it made my poor engine do alot of scary things, i think i will just get an aba and say screw it, then i can do coil on plug or wasted spark








so early abas have a forged crank and later abas have the 60-2 wheel right?


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

well i've spliced the wires that run from the fuse box to the fuel pump. the +ve and ground wires. and sent 12v to them and grounded them. but can only hear a fuel goto the fuel pump, but cant hear the main pump fire up? do you guys reckon its F#@!ed?


----------



## G60syncro (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_so early abas have a forged crank and later abas have the 60-2 wheel right?

All ABA's have the impulse wheel, the only difference is that OBDI has forged crank and rods with oil squirters under the pistons and OBDII has cast pieces and no squirters.
Anybody have more details on the coil-on-plug setup?? I can get my hands on spare 1.8t parts pretty easy!!


----------



## 16vgti2 (Apr 6, 2006)

anybody have any base maps for a 16v to get mine started. ms v2.2 fuel only is what i'm running


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (16vgti2)*

ive heard starting off with the autogenerate map is good and tune from there...
(still havent wired mine up)


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (16vgti2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vgti2* »_ ... 

There is a link somewhere on the first post of this thread to an 8x8 map that you can turn into a 12x12 if necessary. As with any map you get the idle section will have to be re-tuned, but the rest of the map is very solid especially in your case as it was developed on a fuel only setup. The distributor was set to the factory 7* mark with that map as well.










_Modified by GTIMan82 at 11:21 AM 1-25-2007_


----------



## 16vgti2 (Apr 6, 2006)

thanks gtiman82, will have to take a look at that


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## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

for MSNS E with bosch module, does spark need to be inverted?
i've got MS all hooked up, i've followed midnight procedure on setting triggering angle and fixed angle, but she just turns over... does not want to start, but when i turn the dizzy so the middle LED goes off, MS reboots itself. 
any ideas people.
the car has not been started since a month ago, i doubt that would be a problem.
i've pulled out a spark plug, and theres no spark coming from it?








the car use to get spark on the old CIS before i started this MS. also, during cranking my rpm is about 200.
this is the wiring diagram i used, but pins 3 and 5 from the ICM goto the hall sensor.









my system is MS1V3 029v on a stock 9a 16v


_Modified by NasTnaS at 11:20 AM 1-26-2007_


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*

i wonder if you have a bad ground or something is awry with your tps wiring .... sensors screwing up do that kinda schtuff


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*

spark should be non-inverted.


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

well, i've put back my old dizzy [saab distributor] on the 16v, and connected the Ignition control module as normal, took the tach reading for MS from the center hall sensor wire, and im getting spark at the plugs. 
then i tried the igniton module again with MS, this time using the FIDLE to control it, like the MSnS E manual says, but no spark again.
any ideas guys.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*

are you using hall in or vr in?


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: (mxman)*

from MS im running VR to the hall sensor


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

http://www.msextra.com/viewtop...ight=


_Modified by NasTnaS at 10:49 PM 1-28-2007_


----------



## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

wait, VR on a hall sensor? What are you using for a trigger? Stock distributor, or something custom?
If the unit has been modified following this post: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2545204
you need to use pin 25 for the trigger input, not 24 like your diagram is showing.
That post is assuming stock dist and hall sensor for trigger.


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: (xr4tic)*

i now have changed to use the VB921 module to control the coil.
before i did this, i was getting RPM on the stock dizzy, and the LED was blinking, but i was not getting spark at the plugs.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*

i mean theres some merit to using the vr in, but why? it works great on all our cars anyways... why bother blazing a new bridge for barely any reason especially since you
a> havent built a megasquirt and have no idea how it works
b> dont know what that guy rigged up in those diagrams 
c> ask tons of questions on msn but dont listen to what i say







lol
i give him a hard time cause he bugs me


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: (mxman)*

ah quit your moaning....


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*

he's a kiwi, lol... that explains it all, hard headed bugger
everyone wish dan luck (housey) the guy that blew his relay board up...lol..
as far as nastnas we got him on the right path i hope... 
As for my megasquirt install, ever since i installed the passat tbody it seems like my gas mileage has skyrocketted...kudos!


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: (mxman)*

er, the path that leads to






















or the VB921 module? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*

Dan got spark ! (the guy in norway)
omg!


----------



## 16vgti2 (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: (mxman)*

finally got mine all set up and fired up. i love megasquirt








And sexy Home Depot stylz.


----------



## Wraith04 (Jun 24, 2004)

*Re: (16vgti2)*

I knew you'd post here.







The devils in the details on these swaps.


----------



## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: (16vgti2)*

Where's your map sensor tied in at?


----------



## Wraith04 (Jun 24, 2004)

*Re: (sharpshooter33)*

Back of the throttle body, why?


----------



## 16vgti2 (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: (Wraith04)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wraith04* »_I knew you'd post here.







The devils in the details on these swaps.

bwahaha


----------



## Wraith04 (Jun 24, 2004)

*Re: (16vgti2)*

Whore it up man.














I don't think you had this many posts when you had Nathan.


----------



## 16vgti2 (Apr 6, 2006)

i was too busy changing diapers


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (16vgti2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vgti2* »_i was too busy changing diapers

Damn if that aint a full time job! My boy is advanced for his age. At 5 weeks he already craps like he's 6!








Congrats on getting it running


----------



## 16vgti2 (Apr 6, 2006)

wait til he starts eating baby food, talk about nasty


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (16vgti2)*

wait till he figures out how to take his diaper off


----------



## 16vgti2 (Apr 6, 2006)

yeah, he just dicovered his privates, reminds me of me. can't keep his hands off of it, lmao


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

BAH, getting SICK of my MS setup now! just wont start..
even posted a post on msefi now








http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=24930


----------



## Wraith04 (Jun 24, 2004)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

What are your startup enrichments?


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (Wraith04)*

its probably in your dwell control settings with the vb921. if it were v2.2 i would have some pointers, but not with 3.0. sorry. there was a thread on here or on pat's forums that discussed the proper dwell settings for your situation.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

well.. it started for 3 sec today








its all in the ignition alignment etc..
its at 55 deg in MS now.. and god knows on the dizzy


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

http://s119.photobucket.com/al...1.flv
http://s119.photobucket.com/al...0.flv


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

16v gti2 nice car brother

bah car didnt start today, hopefully the hall etc is fine... it smelled flooded...it flooded yesterday out of nowhere.. blah lol


----------



## 16vgti2 (Apr 6, 2006)

thanks


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (16vgti2)*

car started fine now, this is very strange...
dan (housey)'s blown v3 board showed up, im hoping to have it running by week end..


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_car started fine now, this is very strange...
dan (housey)'s blown v3 board showed up, im hoping to have it running by week end..









i got the old processor here aswell! alittle broken tho.. hit me up if you want it







$25 including shipping as i said


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

I can't figure out how to get easytherm to work with msns-e 029t. I downloaded the easytherm firmware and it reset the processor to 2.25
and my coolent tem is still reading 88*


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: (weeblebiker)*

did u click custom? you're suppose to dl the msns_mod file to MS.
hope that helps


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*

nm
helps if I hit F1 once in a while


_Modified by weeblebiker at 3:19 AM 2-10-2007_


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (weeblebiker)*

Hey guys,the 16V cold start delete plate should be done soon...
Is there anything else your looking for?


----------



## 16vgti2 (Apr 6, 2006)

that's where we put my iat sensor, now that's custom


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (16vgti2)*

When I try and set my trigger angle on my 16v(using msns-e), I'm getting the opposite result. Meaning, turning the disro clockwise turns off the MS LED instead of turning it counter-clockwise.
Do I have something wired backwards? I am getting rpm's in megatune though. Anyone?


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

Anybody? A simple yes or no would be nice. I can't get this turkey started and I'm trying to eliminate certain things so I can move on and hopefully figure it out.


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

it depends on your start point. remember 90* of on and 90* of off, so it depends on which side of the point ya start.
isn't there something about a tach signal inversion in the software? ya may want to check the spark windows in the software.
ya also may have your hall +/- backards


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (mxman)*

looking at minightgli's diagram.
does anything get hooked to pin 24 tach in??????
or do 24 and 25 hook to the Hall
all I see is pins 25 and 30 (or29 for the d17 mod)
so the signal in on 25 does not need to be sheilded?
and the o2 signal does not need shielding either?
this is the last wiring issue than I'm ready to start the car. after doublechecking everything.


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (weeblebiker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weeblebiker* »_it depends on your start point. remember 90* of on and 90* of off, so it depends on which side of the point ya start.
isn't there something about a tach signal inversion in the software? ya may want to check the spark windows in the software.
ya also may have your hall +/- backards

Inversion is checked. I'm not sure about the "start point". Is it a setting?


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

make sure the motor is at tdc first.
eyeball the distributor position, at about where it should run (remeber if it is set right, you can't get a bolt into the front lower mounting hole, so if the hole is about half exposed, your ballpark)
now start fiddling with the position and the led.
hope it helps,
I'm just about where you are now. my ms amd fuel is all good to go, just have to finish wiring the oil pressure switches and the oil and coolent temp sensors.
then I get to find my mistakes


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (weeblebiker)*

if your coolant or iat sensor doesnt work.... check the header on the db37 that happened to me too .. i didnt solder it properly...also check the ballast resistors, theres not much involved with the sensor inputs...

as far as the tach signal stuff, GOD msns+e is crap
that method is so bad... ms2 was nice with the trigger wizard. 
poor guys.. good luck, im me if you want... i just started building an MSNS+E ecu...i hope i dont have to blow my brains out lol


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (mxman)*

I gave up a few days ago. Maybe I'll have the motivation in a week or two, but if I try anything now I just might use the hammer in a bad way.


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

Hey Fellas
goodnews: I'm idling!!!!
I had to get on the back side of the 60 trigger angle, @ 75
Bad news: why did I have to take my req fuel down to 7.6 and single squirt???
I have bosch 0280 150 447 supposedly 241cc/min that came with my fuel rail which calculated a reqfuel of 13.8
my ve table starts @ 45 
I think I should lower the idle area but have no clue by how much.
please, I need this car running this weekend, my wife's '00 subie just blew the radiator so we're down to 1 car.
I probably would have been easier to buy some dig2 injectors so I could copy other's settings



_Modified by weeblebiker at 10:16 AM 2-17-2007_


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

hey check page 11-13 njRado had the same problem. he had led 17 as spark out and forgot to set the led to spark out in the software. it defaults to squirt
just another idea
it was causing me problems too! gunna go try it and go for a spin as soon as I get dressed. nothing like working on the car in my bathrobe and sandles, except teeshirt and underware in the summer








my ms battery pack just gave up (9v and 2 AA's ducttaped together and soldered to the db37 that came with the kit)


_Modified by weeblebiker at 12:19 PM 2-17-2007_


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (weeblebiker)*

something is wrong.
my kpa @ idle is in the 95 bin








when I pull on the throttle it goes down.
what's going on????


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (weeblebiker)*

I lost my idle


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Hey guys,the 16V cold start delete plate should be done soon...
Is there anything else your looking for?

heres mine, ran me about $11







cnc'd from a piece of alu


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

I cut mine out of a piece of 1/8" alu sheet with my dremel. 
cost- 3







to myself


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

hey, I need some help with ms.
I can't get it to idle
it catches and fires but won't stay going at all
v2.2 msns-e 029v
I have spark checked with an induction light on the cables.
I have fuel, checked injectors/rail off the manifold.
running the stock tb with the idle screw set in and out all over between
map.dot
bosch 447 injectors from audi/passat 1.8T aeb motor. my flow rate(I think) is 23lb/hr my reqfuel is 13.8
I have my spark trigger angle set @65 adjusted this all over the place by 5's
timing based
crank advance-10
fixed angle 10
timing angle 0
spark not inverted
wiggled the dizzy all over the place have it set were it cranks and catches well
cranking pulse widths 10-2.4
warm ups set to 0
adjusted the reqfuel from 6-16 in .5 increments
ve map pulled off this thread, idle area is in the mid/upper 40's
it dies as soon as it hits warmup / after start
what am I missing????????


















_Modified by weeblebiker at 4:04 AM 2-19-2007_


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (weeblebiker)*

goto tinyurl and put this at the end 24y8vq 
vwvortex isnt letting me post links
a vid of my car running like crap after tinkering , lol hence 1500 rpm idle..









dude
just play with the req fuel values, and verify you have spark 
put in 20 if you have to ...jsut to start it











_Modified by mxman at 4:24 AM 2-19-2007_


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*

if I'm not mistaken, reqfuel is in ms open
so the bigger the injectors, the lower the req fuel, right?
I'm checking your vid now.
Thanks!
linky no workum


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (weeblebiker)*

yes I am back up @ 12:30 in the garage.
had an epiphany in bed and went back out in my bathrob and sandles to reflash the 029v code.
it started right up on the first crank








so I guess your not supposed to burn anything to the processor while it is running?
so does all the changes made in megatune while the engine is running effect the controll unit?
Then you shut the engine off and turn the power back on to burn the changes in?
now back to bed


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (weeblebiker)*

you can burn on the fly, certain things in red usually require a reboot... good job on gettin it goin, lol, i was kind of like "i wonder if its the co...nawww it cant be the code.. haha 
which jumpers are you guys runnin for MSNS+E hall into optoin
i have xg1 xg2 ... 
tsel to tach or whatever
but igbt in goes to r19 top pin right? 
there still the optoout but i dotn recall where it was going and i jumpered r43 as per the instructions... i think when dan's hall blew it blew out his opto isolator.. i think im going to install a new one








Thanks ! 
-Dale


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (weeblebiker)*

it's almost running good.
I have to run a hot wire from the battery in the trunk up to the 30 track feed. right now I have power feeding off the starter where I have the battery cable and alternater cable joined. I think this is where my tach signal noise and ecu reseting is coming from. my voltage fluctuates like mad +/- 0.2 v and my tach fluctuates +/-50rpm like mad.
sometimes when I try to start it takes awhile cause the ecu keep reseting every 3rd crank. 
as soon as I get this running well, I'll post up some pics and tips on how to do this swap well on the max cheap.


_Modified by weeblebiker at 1:46 AM 2-21-2007_


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (weeblebiker)*

put a relay on the yellow black wire rmo the ignition switch in the drip tray to power the ignition module... but put a relay on it and use battery power to turn it on...run a new wire to the battery + and ground your relay board and or ecu straight to the battery - post.... 
you could do like me, i took out the #80 fuel pump relay and run my switched 12v and hall and o2 power off of the fuel pump turn on circuit with spade terminals the fuel pump relay shoots voltage into the relay terminal that goes to the fuel pumps out back 

i cant get the link to the video to work
goto www. street fire dot net ... and type in megasquirt and my video i sfirst in the list... vwvortex is censoring links from streetfire and tinyurl... bostards


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*

naw, no reason to do all that. I ran the ecu, hall and injectors off the power feeds to the old electronics. connected the fuel pump ground to the knockbox fuel pump ground and I was all done with that, stock fuses and relays a workin. I replacesd all the engine wires though cuase they were all brittle and breaking all the time.
if you can build a megasquirt, you can read the wiring diagrams for your car to hook into the stock wiring.
I tapped directly off the battery which cured most of the resetting,but I still have more noise than I'd like. I'll have to wire in my sheild tach wire to the hall and tap it into the right pin in the plug








besides all the 2 days of banging my head over the code reflash. the install went easy. and I didn't use a stim. I shouldn't have bought the harness, I should have made my own, that way I could have used sheilded wire for the tach and knock and ground wires for the sensors
and not had the extra wires(v3) I don't need.


_Modified by weeblebiker at 12:27 AM 2-22-2007_


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_ which jumpers are you guys runnin for MSNS+E hall into optoin
i have xg1 xg2 ... 
tsel to tach or whatever
but igbt in goes to r19 top pin right? 
there still the optoout but i dotn recall where it was going and i jumpered r43 as per the instructions... i think when dan's hall blew it blew out his opto isolator.. i think im going to install a new one








Thanks ! 
-Dale 

I'm running v2.2 
fyi the db9 driver is the weakest link and most likely to blow short of the chips on the board. I accidently applied 12v into the 5v out, effectively putting 12v to everything that should only see 5v. the db9 driver was the only thing I blew















I put sockets in for all the chips after that


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (weeblebiker)*

haha, the msns+e instructions are pretty unclear on things...
o well i think dan blew the optoisolator out, i'll replace it









woooooooot oil leak fixed...

note to self if using autotune set it to like 25 30 minutes lol...
i had it at 10 minutes i think i prolly wore it halfway out haha


_Modified by mxman at 5:59 PM 2-23-2007_


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*

an amendment to the ignition timing portion of the "midnightgli diagram" if you don't have a timing light that has advance, set the fixed timing to 6 and use the stock 6* mark on the flywheel. You can double check by setin the timming to 0 and see of if the tdc mark lines up. I found out my timing was way advanced on cis-e.
my startups suck ass, until I'm out of warm up. I used some settings I copied, but now I'm not sure if the warmup wizard and afterstart came from the same setup. 
could I get someone's warmup wizard, afterstart enrichment and req fuel?


_Modified by weeblebiker at 9:15 PM 2-24-2007_


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (weeblebiker)*

hey bud which injectors again? 
16.8 for digi2... 19 lbs....

btw friends when i changed my hall sender i forgot to time it and ya, ive been running it 10 degrees off... sure helps with the startups
btw.. if yo have no fidle valve... you can run aroudn 25 degrees advance at -40 interpolated back to around 2 at 160f or 140 or wathever the 2nd last box is...if you put anything in the last box it will ALWAYS ADD THAT MUCH ADVANCE when out of wue....
if you're running a fidle valve you can run like 10 degrees @ -40 and interpolate it back to 0 at 80f ? or whatever...
luckily ms2 has alot of little ignition settings it helps








ms2+extra is coming soon, i hear its using the gpio board...
hey weeble, hook me up with an exhaust cam mod


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I foung the block off plate on all saabs intake manifolds without cold start injectors......


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*

I got 23lbs injectors from an a4/passat aeb 1.8T. 4 bar fpr on the rail too








as far as the cam, read the threads and shoot me a pm. I'm working on advancing the cam a bit for NA. turns out my tach is off. it reads 7000 when ms reads 7500, and the cams blowing through the 7200 soft limit. as I set it should take good advantage of low to moderate boost with some advancing, it should pull hard to redline and increase torque at launch.


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (weeblebiker)*

I have 1 retard ??? can you use msd with megasquirt????


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Greengt1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Greengt1* »_I have 1 retard ??? can you use msd with megasquirt????

what's 1 retard???
probably but why???


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (weeblebiker)*

1 retarded ?......















i already have it and dont want to get rid of it...........


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Greengt1)*

I'd run it, if it is already in the car and dialed in. otherwise just sell it.


----------



## one fast 16V (Feb 15, 2007)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (weeblebiker)*

yup you can run an msd box with megasquirt. just run the signal from the megasquirt that is supposed to go to the coil to the msd box and then connect the msd box to the coil. run the same dwell settings as you would a vb921.


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (one fast 16V)*

To clarify things... I just ordered my ms and havent done anything yet but study the diagrams of how it should be hooked up....
from the looks of it I am still going to have to use a seperate ignition module to hook up to the ms unit then like what was said before...use the wires that go to the coil as triggers to msd and use the msd wires to the coil like normally...but wait, msd is an ignition module.....
so its possible to just go from ms directly to msd and so on......?


----------



## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Greengt1)*

if you run MSnS-Extra with ms1 you can control spark with the ms and wire it to the coil or run the msd.
HTH
SS33


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (sharpshooter33)*

I still havent gotten all the ms lingo.....


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Greengt1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Greengt1* »_but wait, msd is an ignition module.....
so its possible to just go from ms directly to msd and so on......?

Yes I am sure MS could hook up to the MSD directly as an ignition module. However, I think it would be easier to hook up the V3.0 MS board as per the MS Assembly guide with the VB921(ignition mod/driver). Then all you have to do is connect the -coil trigger to the MSD. Otherwise I think more wires would be running to the MSD, which could be more confusing. 
I would post this question on the megasquirt support forums and see what some of the gurus say.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Battery Charger and megasquirt*

OK so if your battery is dead and you have a really nice charging station to include ~200 Amp starter boost.... be careful!
Basically I was trying to get my friends 1992 Jetta with MSnS-E V3 running and suddenly MS would no longer power up. I think the battery was seeing 16+v and lots of voltage spikes and things. Zener Diode D12 in the power supply section of the board had shorted internally. I thought it was C16 the polarized capacitor cause hooked into the board it showed dead short, but I traced it to the diode. Anyways, that diode is part of the 5V voltage regulator circuit and it WAS working for about 13 minutes or so but then it kaput.







So watch out for crazy long term high amp charger situations!


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Battery Charger and megasquirt (GTIMan82)*

actually when runnin the msd you set your dwell to 25.5 you might have to mod the code, its on the msns+e site...but ya the settings should be the same for this







dont take my word for it but maybe find out

JFYI the alpha of ms2+e is around i might try it out this weekend!










_Modified by mxman at 10:37 PM 3-9-2007_


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Battery Charger and megasquirt (mxman)*

I just got my ms today;....yaaaaayyy. It was already assembled.. Now i have to make a harness... where do you think i should get it from or should i just make one?


----------



## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: Battery Charger and megasquirt (Greengt1)*

Definitely make one. As long as you have a DB37 making one is easy and you get just what you need.
The other option would be to get one from like T3Bunny or Patron they make specific one's for VW setups.
The one's that come from the general MS dealers have too many wires that you may not use.
my $.02
HTH
SS33










_Modified by sharpshooter33 at 12:04 AM 3-14-2007_


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Battery Charger and megasquirt (sharpshooter33)*

turns out my digi2 injectors may be enough for my setup... seemingly i need to do more logging though... my new laptop lets me load the msq while reviewing logs so its handy!







and the mouse helps lol
i had a ps2 keyboard and no mouse before with no usb ports or anything it was brutal


----------



## G60syncro (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: Battery Charger and megasquirt (mxman)*

Another question here... I got an Audi 5000 intercooler with an intake temp sensor in it... Can I use it instead of the GM IAT sensor I see all over the place??


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Battery Charger and megasquirt (G60syncro)*

YEP! it works fine. You just have to tell megatune what the sensor resistance=tempvalues are. Should be same as whats in Bentley.


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Greengt1)*

how much "noise" is normal in the tach reading?
my tach flutters about 75-100 rpm constantly.
is this normal?
I'm running signal off the hall sensor ala midnightgli, unsheilded tach wire. ecu power direct off the battery, grounds directly on the engine block which has a direct ground to the battery.
also do I need to run a shielded o2 wire?
I'm trying to tune with a narrow band right now. am I just doing an excirsise in frustration without a wideband?
honestly its running rather well. a bit of surging at slightly open throttle 1st gear parking lot speed. if anything I'mr running a little rich judgning by my guesstimated fuel milage

ya know this thread has more hits than the faq?










_Modified by weeblebiker at 5:39 PM 3-17-2007_


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (weeblebiker)*

it could be your ve table being inconsistant


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (weeblebiker)*

nope. 33% all around idle. the sound of the idle doesn't sound all fluttery and when I accelerate it sounds fine but the tach is fluttery all the time.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

hey, a quick question.. is there any of you who is using the blue "g60" temperature sensor for your MS setups? if so, whats the OHMs at the different temperatures? could be great to know








or the black sensor . does not matter since i can use both of them

thanks in advance!


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (weejunGL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weejunGL* »_hey, a quick question.. is there any of you who is using the blue "g60" temperature sensor for your MS setups? if so, whats the OHMs at the different temperatures? could be great to know








or the black sensor . does not matter since i can use both of them

thanks in advance!

theres a chart in the Bentley that shows that info.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OhioBenz* »_
theres a chart in the Bentley that shows that info.

and for those who don't have the bentley?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (weejunGL)*

When the stars align in such away that will allow me to bend time and space, I will go get my Bently and scan the Temp vs. Resistance Graph. Right now I dont have time to poop.


----------



## one fast 16V (Feb 15, 2007)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

anyone here been successful in installing megasquirt on a VR6 with the stock 60-2 wheel and sensor? I need the trigger positions you are running. I know for a 4 cylinder its: 
Trigger Position A: 10
Trigger Return A: 18
Trigger Position B: 40
Trigger Return B: 48
any help or picturs and info on your VR6 setup would help alot.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (one fast 16V)*

I just want to say that the Mechanical Fast Idle Valve, you know the one from early CIS euro cars (Volvo/BMW etc...) is amazing!
That is all. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## one fast 16V (Feb 15, 2007)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

sweet homie


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (one fast 16V)*

Sorry to ask such amateur questions this far in the post but I am lost. 
I am installing MS v2.2 on my scirocco 16v (fuel only) and have several questions. 
1. How do I wire the fuel pump. Do I leave the stock relay intact or cut the harness before the fuse panel and run that to the relay board?
2. For the injectors the relay board has four terminals but two are labled injector 1 and two are injector two. How do i wire that? Im sure it is important to have the injectors wired so the MS knows which is 1,2,3 and 4. 
3.The o2 sensor. I am using the factory spark, how do I wire it so the stock computer and the MS can use it?
4. How do I hook up the fuel return? I am using a corrado fpr and it has three prongs on it. I believe the top one if for vacuum, The side one is to connect it to the fuel rail and is the bottom one for the fuel return?

5. And last. I am using a passat auto tb. Should I hook up the original harness to the WOT and Idle plug on the side of the TB? I know I am hooking up the TPS to the MS but thought the stock computer may need it for spark. 
Thank you in advance for the help.


























_Modified by sciroccoracer at 9:25 PM 4-4-2007_


----------



## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (sciroccoracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciroccoracer* »_Sorry to ask such amateur questions this far in the post but I am lost. 
I am installing MS v2.2 on my scirocco 16v (fuel only) and have several questions. 
1. How do I wire the fuel pump. Do I leave the stock relay intact or cut the harness before the fuse panel and run that to the relay board?
2. For the injectors the relay board has four terminals but two are labled injector 1 and two are injector two. How do i wire that? Im sure it is important to have the injectors wired so the MS knows which is 1,2,3 and 4. 
3.The o2 sensor. I am using the factory spark, how do I wire it so the stock computer and the MS can use it?
4. How do I hook up the fuel return? I am using a corrado fpr and it has three prongs on it. I believe the top one if for vacuum, The side one is to connect it to the fuel rail and is the bottom one for the fuel return?

5. And last. I am using a passat auto tb. Should I hook up the original harness to the WOT and Idle plug on the side of the TB? I know I am hooking up the TPS to the MS but thought the stock computer may need it for spark. 
Thank you in advance for the help.






















_Modified by sciroccoracer at 9:25 PM 4-4-2007_

1st 16v Scirocco YES!!!!! I have 2
1. Here is a link to how alot have wired them to the fuel pump relay.
http://www.vintagewatercooleds...s.htm
http://www.vintagewatercooleds...s.gif
http://www.vintagewatercooleds...n.jpg
2. I don't know anything about the relay board - I don't use them. I wire direct with inline fuses(less stuff to problem shoot)but I would assume you can wire injector sets individually or just off one set on a wire from INJ1 and one set from Inj2
3.A much easier and cleaner approach is to grab the green wire coming from the 3 pin distributor harness. Simply attach the tach wire to it. Somebody scared me about that wire being high voltage or potentially being high voltage. Because I didnt want to worry about it I added 3kohm resistor inline with the megasquirt tach lead to this source. Is it necessary? Probably not, but I know the max current that can flow through the 3kohm resistor is very low. Some peoples setups have it, some dont. Mine works fine with it in there.
Link to Megasquirt Ignition post that should eventually have all ignition info for Hall Sensor Ignition Systems! This is on page one of this thread....I am running my tach signal from the pin#7 of the ICU
4. Sounds right...but again I don't have knowledge of the corrado FPR.
5.shoot me an email to sharpshooter33(at)roadrunner.com and I'll send you a pic of the TB setup I have with nice instructions....I'll try to post the pic here.
HTH and good luck with the rocco. Contact me off site and I'll send you some other links
SS33
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (sharpshooter33)*

so friends, anybody monitoring their fuel pressure? lol...
i have a stock FPR from a digi2 car from 1990 in my car..








i haev a funny feeling with the cis pump its spiking to like... 80 psi hahahaha....
any thoughts







? 
BTW, Put around 2ms max spark duration in your dwell settings if you have MS2!!








btw cdn20v, yeah i am running the mechanical valve, it seems to work well







i want a different one, sometimes my idles not exactly where i want it to be










_Modified by mxman at 11:33 PM 4-9-2007_


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*

Cold starts are a drag... Anyone here have first start of the day on one crank with nothing but turn key? It took 4 cranks this morning.


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

not without a little foot work


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (weeblebiker)*

too tell you the truth, originally when if irst put in the megasquirt my car started every time first crank at all temps then all my settings went into the ****ter due to not doing things right the first time although it was a mockup you know..but you want to drive it








lovre, i might put in a chevy idle stepper motor soon, im not really looking forward to tuning my car again if i put in an FPR.. :S
Should i put in a locked FPR or run a vac referenced fpr and leave in the 19 lb inejctosrs?i think they're dirty inside... should i perhaps put in my minty g60 injectors? sigh..








thx !


----------



## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*

Hi everyone,
I've just started my MSII V3 install on my Corrado. Having read the entire thread twice now







I can't find the easytherm values for the stock temp sender - only 'look in the Bentley'. Alas the Bentley doesn't cover the Corrado 16V since it was never sold in NA!
So, pretty please with sugar on top, could someone please post the values for me? I'm talking about the single-terminal thing that screws direct into the head above the tranny.
And while I'm here







has anyone got the standard 2-wire ISV working? Lots of posts asking about it but no-one seems to have done it?
Thankyou!
Mikki x


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MikkiJayne)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MikkiJayne* »_Hi everyone,
I've just started my MSII V3 install on my Corrado. Having read the entire thread twice now







I can't find the easytherm values for the stock temp sender - only 'look in the Bentley'. Alas the Bentley doesn't cover the Corrado 16V since it was never sold in NA!
So, pretty please with sugar on top, could someone please post the values for me? I'm talking about the single-terminal thing that screws direct into the head above the tranny.
And while I'm here







has anyone got the standard 2-wire ISV working? Lots of posts asking about it but no-one seems to have done it?
Thankyou!
Mikki x

the thing that screws directly into the head above the tranny....
on a 16v there is both a white 2 wire one, and a single wire for the gauge cluster - no values used from the single wire by the ECU.
the 2 wire white sensor info is in the 16v A2 bentley. I will try to scan that page since nobody seems to have that manual....
Hard to believe someone would do this extensive swap without having both the Rado and the A2 manuals - its got all the info about the motor you're dropping in and you can get them on ebay for $40 or less.....
I have a stack of manuals - just for my reference when i work on something.


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OhioBenz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OhioBenz* »_

Hard to believe someone would do this extensive swap without having both the Rado and the A2 manuals - its got all the info about the motor you're dropping in and you can get them on ebay for $40 or less.....
.

That's no joke








And I thought I was a tight wad


----------



## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OhioBenz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OhioBenz* »_Hard to believe someone would do this extensive swap without having both the Rado and the A2 manuals - its got all the info about the motor you're dropping in...

#1 It's a factory 16V so I'm not swapping anything. Even if I were it's not exactly rocket science!








#2 We don't get the Bentley in the UK (not easily anyway) and even if we did I'm not buying a Golf manual for one tiny bit of data!
#3 Sounds like NA electrics are different to UK so my whole question becomes irrelevant anyway








Btw I already have the Haynes for the Golf from many many years ago and it doesn't have the data for this temp sensor.


_Modified by MikkiJayne at 4:53 PM 4-12-2007_


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MikkiJayne)*

data for 2 pin blue sender common to g60 digi1 and golf jetta digi2, also the early digi2 white connector for 87-88 jetta, and motronic 16v's as well as maybe but im not sure cie-e 16v's


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (L33t A2)*

*aka #3 here*


----------



## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (L33t A2)*

Right thankyou http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif That picture explains a lot...
UK KR engines have a straight water outlet with no sender in. The top left hole that is obscured in that pic, #3 and #5 all have the same single-pin sender. #3 is the gauge, #5 is the ecu, and the obscured one is for the idle stabiliser computer (ISV). I don't have the sender shown in #3 at all!
Interestingly the graph you posted is identical to the one in the Haynes manual for the ISV sender, but it lists a different set of values for the ecu sender. Hence why I was asking for the Bentley values, since all three senders are the same! Aren't manuals great?








So I think I will do some tests and see if the single pin sender has the same curve as the 2-pin white one. At least now I have something to work from!
Thanks for your help















Mikki x


----------



## bertelli (Aug 30, 2005)

I never got my ISV working properly, but think keithmac did....


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (bertelli)*

Anybody running the 3-wire isv yet? got two cars wired up but cant find any info on setting it up


----------



## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: (VWralley)*

I've got mine wired up, but haven't installed it yet. I'll let you know when I get it running. 3wire ISV...Also have the fan relay wired to mine with a MSI V3 PCB..I'll post when I see how that works also.
SS33


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

hey guys.
im having some trouble setting up my stock 9a 16v on digi injectors to run...
it cranks and wants to run, but dies after i turn the key to the on position. 
i have my pulse width at 12...
cheers


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*

ive read the ms extra manual on tuning, and will play with the afterstart and PW some more...
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

well, the car is idling nicely, but my trigger angle is set at 30, with a fixed angle of 6 and i have run out of room on the dizzy to move it... its moved clockwise to the right maximum. [screw in the way]
am i doing this right?


_Modified by NasTnaS at 1:09 AM 4-18-2007_


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*

quick question...I've been reading about MS for years. I choose SDS over it about 2 years ago but I'll soon be putting a 16V in my bro's rabbit and I've decided to go MS. The question is:
Should I immediately take a plunge and go with a Ford EDIS ignition or try and let VW ignition take care of spark/retard. 
It seems much easier and cheaper to go the latter route.
Thank you,
Jason


----------



## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

I think if you set your initial trigger angle too low, you will run out of adjustment room
Check out this thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3171016


----------



## MK1SRocc (Jan 7, 2003)

*Re: (vdubspeed)*

I would say let Megasquirt control ignition. The V3 boards have it all built in.


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_Should I immediately take a plunge and go with a Ford EDIS ignition or try and let VW ignition take care of spark/retard. 
Jason

def let the ms take the control. is this car going to be boosted? if so def also run an msd 6a or similar, it has helped vastly to dial in tuning on the cars i have been working on as of late.
the ford edis was one of the first crank trigger options, now thanks in part to patatron, the ms can run either setup. if you do want to run a crank trigger setup, check out 034 efi http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
Should I immediately take a plunge and go with a Ford EDIS ignition or try and let VW ignition take care of spark/retard. 


A lot of people use VW Ignition with no problems with MSnS. I would say use it, it will keep the number of potential issues down while you are getting it running and fine-tuned.
Once it's up and running, then you can start playing around with other options.


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NasTnaS* »_well, the car is idling nicely, but my trigger angle is set at 30, with a fixed angle of 6 and i have run out of room on the dizzy to move it... its moved clockwise to the right maximum.
am i doing this right?

you need to set your trigger angle to 60 and your distributor back to around zero advance. you arent supposed to run a trigger angle between 20 and 50 on megasquirt. everyone else around here is having good results with 60 on any motor.


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (VWralley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWralley* »_
def let the ms take the control. is this car going to be boosted? if so def also run an msd 6a or similar, it has helped vastly to dial in tuning on the cars i have been working on as of late.
the ford edis was one of the first crank trigger options, now thanks in part to patatron, the ms can run either setup. if you do want to run a crank trigger setup, check out 034 efi http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

the car will be a 2.0 16V N/A. It will be my brother's daily driver. We are going for extreme reliability here in the beginning until he replaces it with another daily.
I'm thinking MSnS-E with VW ignition. 
SO MUCH TO READ


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (vdubspeed)*

on the trigger angle mentioned above...i have used the standard 60 setting in about 8 cars with perfect results http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_the car will be a 2.0 16V N/A. It will be my brother's daily driver. We are going for extreme reliability here 

it can be done http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
wish you were closer haha but best of luck


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

thanks guys, ill get onto it.


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*

I relize that this might be answered else where. But maybe someone here can answer it. I am building a ABA 16v. Want to squirt it. Looking into a Ms1 V3 board unit. Can I go with a spark set up using the factory crank trigger wheel? Do I need a coil setup like Issam sells? If anyone is doing this input would be very cool.


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (hasnfefr)*

you could read off the trigger wheel, it is just not TDC at the missing teeth but it is easy to figure out. you could also use the 4 window dizzy like everyone else does.


----------



## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

if you want to go distributorless, then you can use the ABA crank sensor, and the coil setup from 034.
Or you could just use the distributor and make it easy on yourself








you can always upgrade later


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (xr4tic)*

you also dont need to use the 034 coil you can use alot of different coils. GM DIS coils, mk4 2.0 coil pack, COP, the possibilities are endless


----------



## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re:*

Hi again everyone,
Well I've finally got my MSII V3 install running, but I can't get the idle stable.
It will wander up and down from about 850 1100 rpm, the timing wanders from 15 to 18 degrees, map from 30-34kpa, afr 14-14.6, and pulsewidth follows suit. It also misfires every now and then, both at idle and higher rpm. 
The MS clock is steady, and the timing light will show the misfire every time, and also shows the timing wandering. I've tried playing with dwell between 2.5 and 4ms to no avail.
In most MS posts I've read people seem to be pretty impressed with the idle so I must have something wrong but can't see what. I have new plugs, rotor arm, dizzy cap, and it ran just fine before MS.
I can't work out if MS is causing the instability or whether it's responding to something external?







Lag factors are all set to 90. I've set the timing to 15 degrees in the 4 bins it jitters between, so how is the timing wandering up to 18 degrees?
Where are you getting your map vacuum connection? Mine is T'd from the line to the brake servo, before the one way valve.
As usual any thoughts are most welcome!
Mikki x


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: (MikkiJayne)*

are all the ve bins the idle wanders through set the same also?


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (bonesaw)*

I really like all the nice quality stuff to make the 034 set up work. I read in a previous post about the trigger sensor set up. It seams pretty straight forward. To do a COP setup do you need a seperate VB921 for each coil?


----------



## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: Re: (weeblebiker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weeblebiker* »_are all the ve bins the idle wanders through set the same also?

Yes, all four set to 29.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Re: (MikkiJayne)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MikkiJayne* »_
Yes, all four set to 29.

I have found the 16V likes a rich idle Instead of the 14-14.4 try 13-13.5.
Also, you may want to adjust your VE and Spark tables with RPM bins closer together around the idle so you can fine tune them.
What size injectors? If they are big another option is to download the HR(High Resolution) code. This allows the VE and required fuel bins to be adjusted in smaller increments by adding a decimal place to their value. 


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 4:55 AM 4-25-2007_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_
try 13-13.5.

Agree. Also, put a restrictor in your map line, a mig tip works well. Had the same issue on a 16v recently. Also make sure that ego is OFF for idle, I've never had good luck with it.


----------



## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: Re: (need_a_VR6)*

I've just tried AFR as low as 12 didn't help








The injectors are DigiII. 
I've just tried a 0.6mm mig tip in the map line - also didn't help








This is what my idle looks like:








Check the blue line - thats CLT!







TPS, AFR timing and PW are all scattered too. I'm thinking something is wrong with the MS itself for the sensors to be this messed up








I have 'til Saturday to fix this, then CIS goes back on








Mikki x


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Re: (MikkiJayne)*

How and what are all the sensors grounded to?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_How and what are all the sensors grounded to?

Same question from me! 
Run a dedicated ground to the battery and also check your voltage---make sure your alternator is not fluctuating from 11~14V


----------



## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: Re: (GTIMan82)*

Hi guys,
The sensors are all grounded to the top of the head near the dizzy, and this then goes straight back to the MS ground pins. The main ground goes straight to the battery from the MS ground pins. Main power also comes straight from the battery via a relay next to the MS.
Battery voltage is rock solid at 14.2. This problem also happens with the alternator disconnected.
Thanks,
Mikki x


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: (MikkiJayne)*

where are you getting your tach signal from? ya using a sheilded wire?


_Modified by weeblebiker at 12:10 AM 4-26-2007_


----------



## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

does your signal bounce like that when the engine is off, or just while it is running?


----------



## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: Re: (weeblebiker)*

Hiya,

_Quote, originally posted by *weeblebiker* »_where are you getting your tach signal from? ya using a sheilded wire?

Tach signal is coming from the Hall sender. It's not shielded on the basis that the oem systems don't shield it either. Maybe that was optimistic?









_Quote, originally posted by *xr4tic* »_does your signal bounce like that when the engine is off, or just while it is running?

No it doesn't. It just sits there. I think we're getting somewhere now. The Hall and CLT wires are both next to the dizzy and are all messed up (maybe), yet the MAT is far away from the dizzy and is fine. The TPS shares +5Vref with the Hall and is also messed up.....








Ok I have a few ideas from msefi.com and a few from you guys. I have borrowed an oscilloscope from a friend so I can start digging a bit deeper so see if it's a noise problem or a setup problem.
I shall report back later...
Thanks all







Mikki x


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Re: (MikkiJayne)*

I would check for noise on the 5v line first.


----------



## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: Re: (need_a_VR6)*

I've started a new thread to stop spoiling this one








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3204725


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Re: (MikkiJayne)*

V3 MSnS -extra High Res code on an ITB'd 2.0L with Autotech cams. Will it run today? Film at 11


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: Re: (GTIMan82)*

I guess it did not run since your too busy fixing it to reply.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

Lol, well it got rained out!!! 
All we had to do was wire in the fuel pump relay, adjust the ITB's and reconnect the battery! However, on Friday when it was not raining my friend decided to work on removing his dashboard and any unnecessary wiring. Now we have the additional project of making a fiberglass dashboard with a digital gauge set.







But its cool















Maybe next week.


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*A question about the fuel pump setup.*

I am using MS v2.2 to run fuel on my scirocco 16v. 
I think I made a wiring mistake. Here is what i did. I removed the factory relay and ran three wires. 
#87 to the fuel pump terminal on the relay board. 
(I think this is where my mistakes were)
#15 to the switched power terminal on the board.
and #30 to the battery 12v on the board. 
When i turn the key on the ms computer comes on for about 15 seconds and then turns off. (or at least the middle LED comes on for 15 seconds then turns off) And when i turn it over the left LED flashes. But the fuel pump does not go on. 
Thank you.


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (sciroccoracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VTEC_EATER_16V* »_When I try and set my trigger angle on my 16v(using msns-e), I'm getting the opposite result. Meaning, turning the disro clockwise turns off the MS LED instead of turning it counter-clockwise.
Do I have something wired backwards? I am getting rpm's in megatune though. Anyone?

Well, I started working on the car again. I tried switching the + and - on the hall sender and it wouldn't do anything. So I put it back the way it was.
Then I decided to upgrade the firmware. Input some settings, set the crank position, cranked it, sputter. Cranked again with my foot on the gas a little and IT FIRED UP!





















Damn I'm stoked now.















All that for stupid firmware. Now I need a timing light............


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

rugerrupp or wahtever mk2dubbin etc... was saying he used the MAT compensation to cope with the heatsoak on the manifold...
are you guys running a temp sensor for IAT in the manifold? ]

I don't think the heatsoak effect would be that profound would it ?
like that it would affect the ambient temps... hmmm
my car idles way up when it gets heatsoaked sometimes and idles low when cold, any thoughts ?


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (sciroccoracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciroccoracer* »_I am using MS v2.2 to run fuel on my scirocco 16v. 
I think I made a wiring mistake. Here is what i did. I removed the factory relay and ran three wires. 
#87 to the fuel pump terminal on the relay board. 
(I think this is where my mistakes were)
#15 to the switched power terminal on the board.
and #30 to the battery 12v on the board. 
When i turn the key on the ms computer comes on for about 15 seconds and then turns off. (or at least the middle LED comes on for 15 seconds then turns off) And when i turn it over the left LED flashes. But the fuel pump does not go on. 
Thank you. 
 No help!


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (sciroccoracer)*

i have a relay board, i ran a wire from the main supply terminal on the fusebox to the relay otuput ... fused... but ya, fo you, all you need is to take the output wire from the megasquirt and put it into your activation terminal of the relay and you're golden
important tip i overlooked, i forgot to put a lean spot in super low in the kpas, i am pulling 12kpa when i let off the gas... HAHA 12!
so im going to make a lean spot at like 10 kpa in my tune and it should even it out, i hate the rpm going down so much when i let off the gas!


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (mxman)*

My temps were off(too high), so I did the easytherm thing and reflashed the ecu. Loaded my previous settings and now it's hard to start and sounds like it's running on 2 cyl.
EDIT: My guess- LESS fuel. But where?


_Modified by VTEC_EATER_16V at 9:00 AM 5-22-2007_


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

first just try tweaking your req fuel to see if it idles.... then go from there... msq file?
Also, could be your temp based WUE being your temps have changed...if you could get it warmed up and see how it runs you'd prolly know...
your whole map may be invalid and need to be retuned!










_Modified by mxman at 6:07 PM 5-22-2007_


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (VTEC_EATER_16V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VTEC_EATER_16V* »_My temps were off(too high), so I did the easytherm thing and reflashed the ecu. Loaded my previous settings and now it's hard to start and sounds like it's running on 2 cyl.
EDIT: My guess- LESS fuel. But where?

_Modified by VTEC_EATER_16V at 9:00 AM 5-22-2007_

why are you guessing!? you should have a wideband hooked up so you KNOW where the a/f ratio is. if the map is to lean/rich, but the overall worked fairly smooth, you can use the table transform tab to scale the map up or down in small increments to get the fuel mixture corrected


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (VWralley)*

Doh, it'd be good if I wired the wideband so it turns on w/the power relay and not the fuel pump relay.
I'll check the req. fuel and lower it down a little too and see if she'll start.


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

Tried adjusting the REQ fuel with no luck. Still is hard to start and when it does start, sounds like a 2 cyl.
BTW, I never got to the point of setting up a fuel/ignition map, I'm still trying to get it started.


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

do you have a base map loaded up with all the correct settings??


----------



## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (VTEC_EATER_16V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VTEC_EATER_16V* »_Tried adjusting the REQ fuel with no luck. Still is hard to start and when it does start, sounds like a 2 cyl.
BTW, I never got to the point of setting up a fuel/ignition map, I'm still trying to get it started.









Sounds like you flooded out a couple plugs.
Pull the plugs, see if they look fouled out, you might have to get some new ones.
I try to keep a couple sets of cheap plugs on-hand while tuning just for this reason.


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (xr4tic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWralley* »_do you have a base map loaded up with all the correct settings??

The manual says not to touch the map until you can get it started, which I can't do.

_Quote, originally posted by *xr4tic* »_
Sounds like you flooded out a couple plugs.
Pull the plugs, see if they look fouled out, you might have to get some new ones.
I try to keep a couple sets of cheap plugs on-hand while tuning just for this reason.

Well, it didn't start doing this until I flashed the ECU w/the easytherm-modded-one. It worked fine with the normal one.
I'll check the plugs though.


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

Well, I thought putting in 1800cc was making it too rich, so I changed it to 1780 and my req fuel doubled. Replaced the plugs too and it starts like it did before the "flash". The only thing I can think of, is I set the constants before "activating" a MSNSe code(I guess?).
It's always the little things.








Now when I get it to start, it idles like ass, but if I stab the gas, the AFR goes almost to 14.7, but at idles says 18







. Time for some afterstart enrichment and more fun.








The help is appreciated guys.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

reflash your firmware....
make sure the trigger setting is set for rising edge 
make sure your cranking is calculated or rising edge...
make sure you're spark is going high inverted....
do you have a stim


----------



## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (VTEC_EATER_16V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VTEC_EATER_16V* »_Well, I thought putting in 1800cc was making it too rich, so I changed it to 1780 and my req fuel doubled. Replaced the plugs too and it starts like it did before the "flash". The only thing I can think of, is I set the constants before "activating" a MSNSe code(I guess?).
It's always the little things.








Now when I get it to start, it idles like ass, but if I stab the gas, the AFR goes almost to 14.7, but at idles says 18







. Time for some afterstart enrichment and more fun.








The help is appreciated guys.












































I have noticed at times that if you switch some of the engine constants, the REQ_FUEL can do some funny things, like switching from alternating to simultaneous injection and back, and changing the number of squirts per cycle. Its a good idea to know what your REQ_FUEL is if you start messing with these settings
If your idle is 18:1, ASE isn't what you need to change. Do you have a warmup table defined? You're probably best off changing the VE table at the idle spots to ~13:1, and as it warms up, make sure it stays around there, you may have to lean it out as it warms up. Once your idle is set with the engine at operating temperature, then you can play with warmup tables and ASE


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (xr4tic)*

13.2 during warmup is for maximum vacuum while idling .... my car idles pretty well at 14:1 or so... 
but as far as 18:1 that can't be right ... but if it is, lol...richen it up...

between code versions there are a lot of changes to how the ecu interprets barometric correction...
get me a copy of your most recent MSQ and send me a logfile to
mxmang @ hotmail . com and make sure you indicate your firmware version, i will happily look at it!


----------



## Sucka (Apr 12, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

i have a question for anyone out there, when i try and open megatune this window pops up and says error:megatune.ini:0006, what do i do to fix the problem?


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (xr4tic)*

13.2 during warmup is for maximum vacuum while idling .... my car idles pretty well at 14:1 or so... 
but as far as 18:1 that can't be right ... but if it is, lol...richen it up...

between code versions there are a lot of changes to how the ecu interprets barometric correction...
get me a copy of your most recent MSQ and send me a logfile to
mxmang @ hotmail . com and make sure you indicate your firmware version, i will happily look at it!


----------



## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (mxman)*

Another 16V on MS up and running! I got my ecu from Patatron for running distributorless.
Motor is an ABF clone (OBD 1 ABA bottom end w/ P&P'd 1.8L 16V head and euro ABF pistons and 50mm manifold, header etc.) running off the OEM crank sensor and running wasted spark with a MINI Cooper S/Dodge Neon style coil pack. Running a returnless fuel system which is regulated back at the filter and has the return line back right by the pump as well. I'm running 24 lb. injectors @3.5 bar right now, but have plans to supercharge this setup in the near future, so I'll be swapping out to bigger injectors, probably 440's or maybe bigger.
So far I'm really happy with how flexible this is. It's great to be able to add/subtract fuel or timing whenever you want! I'd most def. recommend having a wideband O2 for running this or any other standalone system.
I'm still not done running all the wiring and vacuum lines the way I want yet, I've only had it up and running for a couple of days, so please excuse the zip ties holding the intake pipe in place etc.










































_Modified by evil-e at 10:53 AM 5-28-2007_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (evil-e)*

Sure does look clean! Post some more pics up here when its all done








Dyno that sucker if you get a chance











_Modified by GTIMan82 at 2:09 PM 5-28-2007_


----------



## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_Sure does look clean! Post some more pics up here when its all done








Dyno that sucker if you get a chance








_Modified by GTIMan82 at 2:09 PM 5-28-2007_

Thanks! I need to finish tuning the spark and VE tables and then I'd like to get it dyno'd in N/A form. Down the road I'll need to get it tuned again for the supercharger etc. and then dyno again. I'm not going for all out power, but I'm hoping for at least 230 ish whp by the time it's done. Possibly more if I can get away with running closer to 15 psi and not have any detonation issues.
BTW, I've read this whole damn thread a couple of times before and still didn't fully comprehend what people were talking about sometimes. The only way to fully understand is to do it "hands-on".


----------



## karmann16v (Sep 12, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (evil-e)*

I have MS v3 w/spark installed. Had for a couple of short runs, feels much better than the digi II http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Hopeing for bigger numbers on the dyno and smaller at the track.
Anyway.
I have a good steady idle at 1000 to 1050 rpms but MAP is 55 to 60 Kpa. Car has 268 cams, P&P head, Lightend flywheel etc. (previouslly made 140whp on dyno with digi II) . No ISV. I tuned the idle with AE and EOG off. Spark table in this area is about 18 drgrees. I basically ignored the a/f to get this idle but my AEM guage reads 11-12.
I'd like to get the MAP down to 30 Kpa and possibally a/f a little leaner. Tried pinching the vacuum line a little, no luck. I believe the cams are driving both up.
Can I get a better MAP and A/F ratio at idle? What have others experienced on there MS'ed 16v with cams?
Also, Its still pretty cold here and car takes some time to warm up, 5-6 starts and have to hold it at 2000rps for a while. Any-one have some afterstart suggestions that may help?


----------



## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (karmann16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *karmann16v* »_
I have MS v3 w/spark installed. Had for a couple of short runs, feels much better than the digi II http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Hopeing for bigger numbers on the dyno and smaller at the track.
Anyway.
I have a good steady idle at 1000 to 1050 rpms but MAP is 55 to 60 Kpa. Car has 268 cams, P&P head, Lightend flywheel etc. (previouslly made 140whp on dyno with digi II) . No ISV. I tuned the idle with AE and EOG off. Spark table in this area is about 18 drgrees. I basically ignored the a/f to get this idle but my AEM guage reads 11-12.
I'd like to get the MAP down to 30 Kpa and possibally a/f a little leaner. Tried pinching the vacuum line a little, no luck. I believe the cams are driving both up.
Can I get a better MAP and A/F ratio at idle? What have others experienced on there MS'ed 16v with cams?
Also, Its still pretty cold here and car takes some time to warm up, 5-6 starts and have to hold it at 2000rps for a while. Any-one have some afterstart suggestions that may help?

I've got a similar sounding setup except the cams are non-symetrical Autotech Sports. I think they are 258 intake and 268 exhaust, but I've gotten my Kpa's down to around 45 @ idle. If you play around with the timing and the VE's you can get get the Kpa's down a bit.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (evil-e)*

Start checking for vac leaks as well. Some ITB'd cars idle that high, but a car with a manifold should idle lower unless the cams are huge.


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (mxman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mxman* »_13.2 during warmup is for maximum vacuum while idling .... my car idles pretty well at 14:1 or so... 
but as far as 18:1 that can't be right ... but if it is, lol...richen it up...

between code versions there are a lot of changes to how the ecu interprets barometric correction...
get me a copy of your most recent MSQ and send me a logfile to
mxmang @ hotmail . com and make sure you indicate your firmware version, i will happily look at it!









It looks like there's something up with my (lc-1)wideband. Either I need to re-ground the blue wire(which is grounded seperate, but in a different location, instead of close to the others), or it's fried.
It only reads around 18 and never changes.
My band played a show on saturday and ever since then I've been drinking way too much







everyday and not getting anything done







. Hopefully that'll change today after work.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

You getting a heater error or something? The Innovate manual tells you to ground separate, but I've never had luck with that. Ground together and it might work OK.


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (need_a_VR6)*

No heater error, I just can't get it to read correctly. It just stays @18 AFR in megatune. In Logworks it only reads % which doesn't help me at all.
I'll give the ground thing a shot though.


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## Sandwar (Feb 21, 2001)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (need_a_VR6)*

... first off....pg 40 is owned!!
I have a 1989 Euro spec Corrado G60 that I'm replacing with a 2.0l 16V from a 91 Euro passat. What version MS and all would you recommend I use for this swap, Digi is out of the question!!!! I am going to be replacing the 16v later with a built PL 1.8 16VT but do not want to buy all new engine management again. 
any help would be great!!



_Modified by Sandwar at 1:41 PM 5-31-2007_


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (Sandwar)*

Be the first (on this post anyways) to do a microsquirt setup! you can always get the GPIO expansion board if you need to connect more stuff.


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 7:07 AM 6-2-2007_


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: A question about the fuel pump setup. (GTIMan82)*

what kinda IAT's did your cars run dudes? with the open element and the stock setup...
i have a 195f tstat in and its hitting fing 205f coolant with the gm sensor in a passat side head flange.... my open element air filter sitting in traffic is hitting as high as 122-130f when idling for a long time then dropping down to like 85-90 or less after driving a bit... but like, the car is pinging on only 91 octane.. stock timing map... i was using ethanol 10% or 94 octane.... if you will.... also, i can only run 22 degrees or so at WOT... for redlineish..thats horrible... 
i could run 26+ with the 94 octane and it pings on heavy load offs when getting hard on the throttle...and the 94 didnt ever ping ever...... weird... any thoughts? it's not lean either btw...
i put 20 degrees retard at 180f iat and like 6 at 100 f... short of this i'm dumbfounded, i wonder if blowby is killing me? i have a tad from the valvestem seals but i don't burn oil crazily or anything

thx










_Modified by mxman at 12:30 AM 6-11-2007_


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## bertelli (Aug 30, 2005)

Are you using a wideband or narrowband o2 sensor? what readings is that giving you? your temperatures don't sound too bad (intake is a little high)


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_
The middle fuel line that went to the charcoal canister is some kinda emissions thing. I dont honestly know if you can simply plug it... For now I ran mine up and then back down into a strut tower bar bolt hole. Only thing is, when I had a full tank of fuel I jacked the car up, and when I let it back down... gas came out of it! Not cool!! 
Anyone got any ideas on what "should" be done with this thing? 


the charcoal canister line comes from the gas tank to vent the fumes.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OhioBenz)*

So I had my first problem with MS since my install was completed. It rained heavily here yesterday for the first time since I finished by install early Spring.
The car started up then would stall right out. I eventually got it going, but I had to keep giving gas.
What I think happenned: I think Rain water got onto my unprotected, uncovered relay board in my rain tray. I guess it is more of a problem than I thought. I'm gonna make myseld a cover for it.
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif These things should have come with covers.


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## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdn20VALVE* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif These things should have come with covers.

This just convinces me to stay with the OEM fusebox....


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OhioBenz)*

Ok boys. Had to leave the rabbit home today. It would not start. No Spark.
I'm gonna check the hall sender for voltage, and start working my way back. 
My ignition switch is wonky, so I'm gonna try changing that, btu I'm pretty sure I wired my ignition off the fuel pump, and the fuel pump works...
Next thing to check is my knocksense MS device. It has been giving me problems lately, ie always detecting knock, so maybe it cut out the ignition signal to the MS ECU.
I'm at work now (got a ride in) so I'll try to get to the bottom of it tonight. Of course, I appreciate any tips you guys can give me to help me diagnose and get my Cabby back on the road pronto.















BTW, I'm gonna look at the basics tonight. Rotor, cap etc...


_Modified by cdn20VALVE at 9:03 AM 6-21-2007_


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

Ok Guys. I just got back from doing some diag.
Results, 
No spark at plugs, or coil.
Ignition Module gets very hot.
No tach on while cranking. But tach on in Megatune.
I'm also seeing 12 volts ar tha hall sender(pin1,3), should it not be 5 volts?


_Modified by cdn20VALVE at 7:17 PM 6-21-2007_


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

Depending on your setup, it could be 12 or 5 volts at the hall sender. Voltage there should mean that part of the ignition system is ok.
To stay in-line with most IT people, reload the firmware and then load your settings back. 
You may also want to check things with a MS stimulator so you can find exactly what part of the board has the problem.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

Well seems like the board is fine, as my LED flashes with spark. So it sending the signal. Not only that, but my setup runs intermitently.








I redid the test to my hall, and I get 5 volts. I don't know how I got 12 volts last time. 
Oh well, I have a feeling it's the coil, as it failed the test provided in the bentley.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

my relay board is in the drip tray where the oem ecu was but i have it covered in garbage bags....







my ecu is mounted in front of the fan on a sheet of aluminum i think i'm going to try to get some form of case for it.. 
anywho regarding your trouble...
take your ms out, make sure db37 pin 36 switching the ground on and off like its sposed to...to make the coil spark properly , it sounds like it is fine..
are you using the igbt or the stock ignition module? maybe check your relay board for scarring?


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*

igbt?


----------



## bunnyslayer (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

Hey ever one quick question 92 gtx I just wired in m/s and have it up and running







but now my abs isn’t working.. Is there some thing related here I checked all the fuses and they all seem to be ok the only thing im hooked in to on the stock harness is the fuel pump.. Im stumped…. dose the abs controller get powered by the stock ECM or some thing ?


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (bunnyslayer)*

Guys I'm now stuck. I've thrown parts at itm and it still won't spark. 
My MS works perfect on the stim. I really think the problem is my relay board. It looks like water got in in all the wrong places, and there is corrosion on the circuits. 
I'm going to rewire my car now, skipping the relay board entirely.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

Just got back in from rewiring my car using one of patatron's diagram. I skipped the relay board, got everything working. Except Spark!!
I need ideas guys.
Tomorrow I'm going to reload my firmware on my MS. Just in case, but I have a feeling it's not that.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (cdn20VALVE)*

Does the coil have power (fuse blown?)? If it does have power, as mxman said check the negative terminal of the coil for switching continuity to ground. If the stim/spark led are lighting up it SHOULD switch to ground with each spark event. If it does not, the wiring must have gotten pinched/mest up. 
Windshield wiper arms hit anything? 
Relay stuck closed???


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (bunnyslayer)*

The ABS controller gets a signal from the stock ECU, but I think its just a switched ground or voltage. On the MK III it is the gray/white wire IIRC... Check the wiring diagram in the Bentley to see what wire(s) ran between the ECU and ABS system. By the process of elimination, you should be able to figure out what function the ECU->ABS wire served.
Also on the MK III the small black/red and black/yellow wires went to the ABS Light which is controlled by the circuit board on the light itself. The ABS system outputs a signal on these two wires to activate the light.
On the MKII the ABS light may have been controlled by the ECU, but again IIRC the ABS system works without the light hooked up.


----------



## Midnightunersva (May 20, 2007)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

Hey i was wondering if anyone had any base maps or just maps at all for the 16v it would be very helpful. thanks


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

All my wiring is new. 100% new. Just did it last night, and it's the same symptom.
The problem first happened after a large rainstorm. Something must have gotten shorted out. Stupid relay board.
The coil gets 12 vots for about two seconds once you turn ignition on, then goes back to 0.
The LED's are lighting up and flickering with ignition events.
Windhsield wipers not an issue.
Relays are both cliking on. I get main power, and I get fuel.


----------



## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

The coil should have +12V while the ignition is on.
When you check for 12V at the coil, is the wire connected or disconnected? It could be the coil is grounding it out somehow, did you replace the coil?
You can try removing the current +12V wire, and run the coil right to the battery (fused just in case) and then try and see if it works.
I think the coil (and a few other things) gets power straight from the ignition switch. Does your fuel pump work? Maybe its a bad ignition switch?


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (xr4tic)*

Bro, I've changed the coil and the ignition switch. Both parts brand new.
When I check for 12v at the coil, everything is connected. I tried giving the coil 12v via the battery, and still nothing.
Fuel pump primes, and MS turns on. Everything in Megatune reports normal function. 
Only two things dont' work, No tach signal on dash, and no Spark from coil.


----------



## bunnyslayer (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Midnightunersva)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Midnightunersva* »_Hey i was wondering if anyone had any base maps or just maps at all for the 16v it would be very helpful. thanks









http://volksearch.com/patatron...?t=19


----------



## bunnyslayer (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_The ABS controller gets a signal from the stock ECU, but I think its just a switched ground or voltage. On the MK III it is the gray/white wire IIRC... Check the wiring diagram in the Bentley to see what wire(s) ran between the ECU and ABS system. By the process of elimination, you should be able to figure out what function the ECU->ABS wire served.
Also on the MK III the small black/red and black/yellow wires went to the ABS Light which is controlled by the circuit board on the light itself. The ABS system outputs a signal on these two wires to activate the light.
On the MKII the ABS light may have been controlled by the ECU, but again IIRC the ABS system works without the light hooked up.

thanx I was starting to think this was the case 
so I just took a look at the bentley I see how the lights are controlled same as the mkIII but I can't see any ciruits that go from the ecm to the controller on the mkIII dose the IIRC wire go to the abs controller or a relay?? I really hate vw wiring diagrams I find them so hard to read 
_Modified by bunnyslayer at 8:59 PM 6-24-2007_


_Modified by bunnyslayer at 10:10 PM 6-24-2007_


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

Finally!! Phase III on my 90 GLI 2.0-16v
I started on the GLI today, will be posting updates, pix on the Hotdub gallery: http://www.hotdub.com/pictures...um=26
The scheduled changes are: new bottom end with light crank, bored .040" over with Wiseco 11:1 pistons, ported head with bigger valves, Ti retainers, lightweight lifters, TT HD springs, 288 cams.
Custom intake with Ford Lightning twin 55mm TB, Rado radiator, two 10" thinline fans, Zex NOS airfilter 100HP shot.
Engine management will be MSNS-e running 42# greentop injectors, TT fuel rail with 4bar fpr.
To help fight detonation - and assist the NOS, WAI will be added into the intake also....
The current motor has 256K on the original bottom end - I fried another tranny - the 02A binds up when it gets hot so its coming out too...
Most of the learning curve will be with the MSNS-e fuel injection conversion........ There's lots of support but still, its a big change and nobody is running the big cams I have, nor the big TB.... So lots of things are up in the air.
I'm hoping to make around 200HP NA before the NOS......


----------



## NasTnaS (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

is your vb cooked? your dash gets its input from the negative of the coil.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (NasTnaS)*

THe car is alive!!. roginal problem was the relay board was corroded. I redid the wiring and used Patatron''s diagram. His pin out for ignition is different than the ECU instructions by Ottawa G60, 31 vs 29. 
So after fixingthat, my new harness works 100%. The car actually runs better now too. There used to be some misfires at times. Nothing serious, but now it's smoother. 
If you guys can avoid using the relay board, you'll be much better off in the end. It doesn't really make wiring easier, because you have to run so much more wires!! It also adds the risk of under hood corrosion affecting the sensitive circuit board.


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

has anyone installed the 2nd map sensor for constant baro correction on their V2.2? looking to add this to my patatron-built ecu and would benefit from your pointers!


----------



## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

I haven't done it myself, but was also interested in this. Seems like a safer setup, especially if you're driving at different elevations like up mountain passes etc.
Does anyone have an ABF spark map?
I loaded Martyn 16V's spark map into my ecu and haven't touched it since it was loaded. I have not gotten any audible knock out of my motor even running it on 87 octane on a 90 deg. F plus day when doing a WOT pull. Seems like I would benefit alot from advancing the timing a bit. I've been thinking about getting the Knocksense setup and tuning the spark using it and I may end up having to do just that. Just hoping someone might have an ABF timing map or maybe a more aggresive N/A 16V spark map I could give a try with.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (evil-e)*

32deg total on 93 oct is enough to go 13.55's in a mildly lightened Mk2 ABF with just a cold air, header and exhaust. Just verify your MS to actual timing is spot on and enjoy your lack of detonation.


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

32 seems pretty high for a mild 16v IMO. 16v's by nature dont like a lot of timing and the good old "butt-dyno" in mine seems a lot happier at about 26 (stock) at WOT. 
i will say however i havent run that much timing in a while and am more confident in my tuning now - and may give it another shot after i dyno this weekend on my current tune.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

High or not, there's no detonation, car runs well, no tell tales on the plugs, etc. 13:1 a/f no more no less. Still needs to hit the dyno to dial it in, and try race gas/more timing. 
If you think 26 is high, I dyno tuned a 20v with 12:1 comp and it like 33deg on 93 octane







It's a nicer chamber for detonation control though.
Also, I think that 16v timing map that's floating around only has the 'computer advance' in it, not + the static adv you get from the distro.


_Modified by need_a_VR6 at 2:41 PM 7-9-2007_


----------



## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_If you think 26 is high, I dyno tuned a 20v with 12:1 comp and it like 33deg on 93 octane







It's a nicer chamber for detonation control though.

Would a better designed combustion chamber / head / engine need less timing? I recall reading that some of the bmw engines require less advance than normal. Is that sort of true?


_Modified by chadr at 5:18 PM 7-9-2007_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (chadr)*

Yes, a well designed chamber/head combo needs less timing to hit peak power. Though at high compression and a domed piston, you lose some of the advantages of a good head design as the compression dome is right where you want your flame front to be. So, once you're past a flat deck piston, you're fighting yourself.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Re: (GTIMan82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIMan82* »_V3 MSnS -extra High Res code on an ITB'd 2.0L with Autotech cams. Will it run today? Film at 11









It ran finally yesterday.







Getting time off when my buddy is off of the boat can be difficult!
The ITBs sound... well... crappy and awesome.







They need to be tuned/matched up so they are working in unison. However, they are still pretty damn impressive! Cant wait for it to hit the road and film some video


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk2dubbin* »_has anyone installed the 2nd map sensor for constant baro correction on their V2.2?

i found this product today:
Dual MapDaddy
i really have no use for a 4bar sensor, but it is a nice little package and would really simplify the install. i may buy one of these and be done with it.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

Don't use the 4bar if you don't need it, the resolution sucks, especially for an n/a car.


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

thatll make it even worse then since im running throttle bodies... thanks for the tip. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## karmann16v (Sep 12, 2003)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

Thought I'd post up another megasquirt sucess story.
Installed MS&S v3 the past winter and have been doing some one person tuning since. With some help from a friend riding shotgun, I've managed to get the last bit of WOT tuning done today. 
Without a doubt the Megasquirt system blows the doors off the digi II system I was running on my 2.0 16v. Feels fantastic throughout all RPM's. I rev'ed to above 7000 rpm, could'nt do that with digi.
With the digi II system I had TT 268 cams, P&P head, Lightweight flywheel, LSD Header TT exhaust, 18lb injectors. Dynoed at 140 whp
Besides the MS I've added 34lb injectors, and adjustable fpr. I've added a AEM wideband, MSD shift light and knocksense to monitor. 
With a little more tuning I'm hoping for some better dyno numbers and track times.
Although I've also added a wet nitrous system, i hav'nt used it yet. I really want to tune this on the dyno.
I'll keep everyone posted on the results....


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk2dubbin* »_thatll make it even worse then since im running throttle bodies... thanks for the tip. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Even better, just run Alpha-N. After getting used to tuning it, it KILLS SD on an ITB'd car. You'll know what I mean after you get frustrated with no vac range http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Even better, just run Alpha-N. After getting used to tuning it, it KILLS SD on an ITB'd car. You'll know what I mean after you get frustrated with no vac range http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

thats the direction i am headed now. i dynoed on sat with my street tune, and am working on setting up my alpha-n tables now. we shall see how it goes...


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

If you search on msextra you can find info on how to run a map based spark map and use alpha-n for fuel only. Keeps things a little less complicated at first.


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

yea, ive dabbled with that in the past and it worked pretty well. i think i am going to make the jump right into alpha-n, and then i can use the standard map sensor for my baro correction rather than installing a second sensor.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Re: (GTIMan82)*

well, i've done a lot lately trying to get rid of my woes...
2L 16v stock (header and tt exhaust) with rice filter in the engien bay running ms2 stock vw spark map ... hall
i'm running a 92c (195 f tstat) and my iats are getting around 130f with the filter in the engine bay... i orignally tuned it with 10% ethanol 94 octane and it ran crappy in winter so i went to 92 this summer to try to counteract that... thing is on the 92 i coulndt even run 26 degrees of advance.. i've recently had the head off and cleaned the carbon out of there...it should be fine now
but ya 22 degrees of advance at wot to prevent pinging makes me say WTF......
does this head hotspot easily when idling for a long time? i'm just trying to figure out what i can do to test this... should i move the filter into the inner fender? 
what are acceptable iat's and what are acceptable clt's ? i just wonder if my fans are working worth a ****... maybe i should let megasquirt take over those duties? hmm
the thing is my logs hit 600kpa/s or something when starting out in 1st (8lb flywheel makes me feather the gas a couple times and the clutch to get going)... i wonder if this is all just a lean condition?
i've double checked the timing marks with a timing light at idle and like 2500 rpm and it seemd to be fine... anybody have any other suggestions?? thanks in advance!
-Dale :S


_Modified by mxman at 11:33 PM 7-18-2007_


----------



## Jrrrrrrr (Oct 30, 2001)

I'm planning a MS PCB 3 installation with a 034 waste spark coil, and I want to integrate the wiring as cleanly as possible into the stock CE2 system. In doing so, I made my own diagram in following the regular PCB3/coilpack diagram at patatron.com








- Basically, I'm thinking of using the stock digifant relay to power the MS ECU. I'm also thinking of using the stock fuel pump relay to power the pump and O2 sensor heater, as per the patatron diagram; however, I'm thinking of using the digifant injector power output from the fuel pump relay instead of the "power relay" in the patatron diagram. 
- I'm also thinking of running the coilpack 12v off of the switched coil output instead of teeing that into the fuel pump relay as per the patatron diagram.
- The ISV relay I want to tie into the stock CE2 motronic power leads as I have no other use for these.
- I have the kill switches in the fuel pump relay and ignition 12v because I want the ability to kill these circuits. 
- I'm also planning to modify a 5-wire digifant 1 injector harness and wonder if the inline fuses for the injector power are unnecessary? 
My biggest concern is that the digifant relay may not work to power the MS ECU for some bizarre reason. My other concern is that getting the tach in the VW cluster to work might be a PITA, but pataron.com seems to have advice on that topic. 
I think my diagram looks good and will work. Thoughts? 


_Modified by Jrrrrrrr at 3:40 AM 7-22-2007_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Jrrrrrrr)*

I wired one the same way on an 89 Golf with MS. Worked great. ECU relay gave 12v switched, fuel pump powers the fuel pump (but it could power the coil), the Digi1 injector harness will work the power for that wire is fused in the fuseblock.


----------



## Jrrrrrrr (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_I wired one the same way on an 89 Golf with MS. Worked great. ECU relay gave 12v switched, fuel pump powers the fuel pump (but it could power the coil), the Digi1 injector harness will work the power for that wire is fused in the fuseblock.

Awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (Jrrrrrrr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jrrrrrrr* »_
Awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Yeah, thats good news - I really didnt want to do the whole external power board thing.
Hope somebody can figure the tach signal wiring out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OhioBenz)*

If you have a single coil, tach works perfectly hooked up to coil -, it's a green/black wire I think.
Multiple coils you need to use the MS tach output circuit with an inductor wired in. There's good info in the MS-Extra manual.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (need_a_VR6)*

honestly i find the relay board to be a complete piece of ****, i somehow stripped the tach screwbarely tightening it... so i had to cut a piece of thw harnes back and wire it into pin 24... when inserting the relays it's almsot impossible to do it without almost breaking anything... there should be a screw down power connector ETC....
i think i have hall jitter... i retimed my car.. i had it at 46 degrees so it was synchd tdc with the gun at 10 degrees adn my table at 10 degrees (the whole ig table) so i rev it up it was out a few degrees... so i changed the trigger angle to 49, it seemd to be better... it was off slightly at idle but correct when revved... BUT get this... the light blinked tdc but woudl jump ahead and behind slightly... i might take my digicam and make a quick movie for proof....
i swapped halls a while ago... and left that ring out in the dizzy there is no way it's this is it?
-Dale


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*

Can someone help me out. I am starting my tuning tommorow and could use some base line tables to help me get it running. I am using v2.2 fuel only on a 9a 16v. I am running hot cams and high compression but anything to help me get started would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (sciroccoracer)*

with the dizzy in the stock position i think you could put in around 40 for a trigger value i cant remember... with my dizzy almost fully retarded it ran best a trigger value of 35
make sure you have spark and that your dizzy is in the right spot, if you're on ms1 2.2 you have to follow the directions to turn the dizzy back and forth blah blah
anyways, play wtih the req fuel until it starts .. 
for big cams you'll prolly wanna run like 15-22 degrees of advance around idle and like 28 or 30 or something at 500 rpm so that it will get more vacuum, basically you want the idle to be around 13.5:1 afr at idle to make the most vac (the lower the kpa number the better) play with the advance and make the kpa lower again and the idle more stable... make sure you have the cranking advance set for 10 degrees or something so that wont hit a wall of timing when turning over... 
after that, rev the car to 6k with as little throttle as you can say like 40 kpa at 6k, make sure the afr is like 14:1 or so... then try getting your wot run in and set that ... be careful the 9a heatsoaks pretty badly without a heatshield and it really makse tuning A PITA....
after you have a wide open throttle run (WOT) you can just interpolate the numbers a bit... when you get dyno time you can fiddle with your setup more!
hopefully this helps a bit


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (sciroccoracer)*

The first page of this post has a link to an 8x8 fuel only table tuned almost perfect for a 9A 16V. 
Shoot... here it is
8x8 VE table - right click and save to your computer 
The idle portion of that will more than likely need to be re-tuned. Every car is different..



_Modified by GTIMan82 at 1:33 PM 7-27-2007_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*

MXMan - Sounds like the base timing is off and so is your trigger angle. 
Check out This Post and read the instructions on how to set the trigger angle specified in the first picture. The goal is to get the trigger angle to 60*.
On another note the rotating knob on my Craftsmen timing light has gotten out of calibration. It is fairly easy to twist the knob too far in either direction and this can screw up readings. I re-calibrated and re-tightened the knob after borrowing a digital timing light.


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

Thank you so much.















Today I finished the install on my megasquirt. I havnt even plugged in my laptop to the ms yet and today i turned it over to check for fuel leaks and it started. It ran very poorly but I was suprised it ran at all. Is this normal?
Also is there any software that i have to load into my ms before using it? Ive been reading thru alot of stuff and it is all pretty overwhelming. 


_Modified by sciroccoracer at 10:14 PM 7-27-2007_


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (sciroccoracer)*

but isnt it awesome?
make sure you have a fairly new stable firmware with no issues loaded into the ecu.. i'd jus twork on getting it to idle for now, do you have an MSQ right now? 
thanks gti man, well the point of the trigger wizard is just to get it synched, but i'll try it at 60 degrees.. i may just use a light with a straight up value, this timing light i'm using is a piece of s||it








i may buy a digital unit soon... gr 
BTW i'm ms2


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (mxman)*

Yea getting the dizzy and MS timing synced is the main part but I have read about issues with when the spark fires in relation to the position of the rotor button. From what I understand a trigger angle right around 60* avoids that issue.


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 5:48 AM 7-28-2007_


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (sciroccoracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciroccoracer* »_
Today I finished the install on my megasquirt. I havnt even plugged in my laptop to the ms yet and today i turned it over to check for fuel leaks and it started. It ran very poorly but I was suprised it ran at all. Is this normal?
Also is there any software that i have to load into my ms before using it? Ive been reading thru alot of stuff and it is all pretty overwhelming. 
_Modified by sciroccoracer at 10:14 PM 7-27-2007_

Racer... when you get done tuning this would you mind sharing maps? I'm building an 11:1, 288 cams, P&P with Supertech valves, big TB motor and hope to have it ready for MSnS-e by winter break....
I'm just starting to assemble the block and still have some intake issues to work out yet...


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OhioBenz)*

Sure no problem. It may take a while to get it exact but when im done ill share with you. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (sciroccoracer)*

Update,
my eurospec flywheel was marked incorrectly... 
so i used the bolt and vw marks to find the location of TDC (the bolt is almost spot on to TDC.
As far as running, i just changed my trigger angle to 55 degrees loaded a 6 degree fixed table and dialed it in pretty close
made a new VE table ... set it with mat at 90f and engine at 160 ish F and then reset the accel enrich, added 5% mat correction around 100f intake temp, 6-8 around 110 8-10 around 120 i believe 
luckily it's like 100-110f + humidity .. argh.. out right now and i'm running high octane e10 94 octane


----------



## gli_ryan (Nov 12, 2005)

i want to try the stock vr6 spark map on my itb's. matt has told me that it works quite well in his car and i'd like to give it a shot too but i can't find one. so if someone could show it to me that would be great.
also im working on my accel enrichments. what a pain those are. could someone post theirs up if their running itb's and a fairly stock motor?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (gli_ryan)*

I posted a VR6 msq that I did not too long ago on msruns.com the msq is in the post under VW and Tim's VR6. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

big shout out to all of you guys still helping people get their problems solved, if anybody needs any info RE: ms2 let me know!
btw i tried ms2 E but i kept getting synch errors and stuff loading it


----------



## twocamvw (Feb 20, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*

my corrado started on megasquirt today. but i need to alot of tweeking for cold starts. couldnt get it to fire unless i poured some gas in it. 

2.0 16v turbo, megasquirt pcb v3 ms 1 running, msns extra , hope i said that right. with 52# injectors. msd coil with the stock distriburator.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (twocamvw)*

52# injectors, holy crap. You might want to try the MSnS -extra High Res code. Large injectors can make idle/low rpm tuning difficult, and the high res code helps by allowing for smaller adjustment increments. 


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 3:24 AM 8-20-2007_


----------



## twocamvw (Feb 20, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

well looked over my tune and changed it some. and now it starts without pouring fuel in it for its first start. seems to be rich but i havent installed my wideband yet so i cant say for sure. 
also i read i can't use the high res code unless i run resistors with my injectors. there low impedance. 
but im happy this thing starts and runs on its own now.


----------



## sciroccoracer (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: (twocamvw)*

I need a little help. I purchased an adapter from diy.com it adapts the db9 on my megasquirt to usb. But when i try to use it my computer says I do not have the correct driver for it. The website for diy.com says the drivers are automatically installed when you first plug in the usb. If anyone has this same adapter and can help me I would greatly appreciate it. I have not been able to communicate with my MS. Thanks


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (sciroccoracer)*

haha poor scirocco racer... 

so dudes, ms2 on a 16v, i have a ton of timing errors, it appears this is what has been plauging my install since day 1.... timing frickin errors from all the slop in the 16vs belt->cam->chain->dizzy... BOO!
i may have to go 36-1 to get rid of this.. i'm runnin around 17:1 for lean cruise now and the car burns the tires at quarter throttle, 
i tried the new algorithm for ms2 "alpha beta gamma" and tweaked the settings a bit and it works a bit better accelerating cruising the thing is that every time it has a timing error while cruising, it makes the tach move around kind of lose synch slightly and the engine kind of transitions (you can hear the transmission making noise.)
BOO! BOO I SAY! (BTW my tach signal is clean.. i'm running 55 degrees on the trigger wizard with triggering from the rising edge, weird!


----------



## karmann16v (Sep 12, 2003)

*Re: (mxman)*

hey. can anyone help me out here.
Had everything working perfectly untill I overheated and blew a head gasket at the track. 
MS 1 v3 extra, spark controlled with VB921 and hall.
Anyway, everything is back together now and runs good (better than before). After it warms up to about 57 deg C I get constant resets, one after another. I have run all new ground wires and terminated at the battery. All grounds are good. Installed a 12v noise suppressor (radio type) thinking I may have a noisy alternator. 
I cant seem to nail this down. Any suggestions?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (karmann16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *karmann16v* »_ thinking I may have a noisy alternator. 

Just undo the power from the alt and the exciter and go for a drive and see if it stops the resets. It'll run off battery alone for a while.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

If this is not a noisy alternator, post on the msefi.com forums I am sure they will help you out


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

re solder your db37, sometimes it comes loose, the first time i did my ms i didnt remember to fully solder one of the pins and my clt kept screwing up, remember analog circuits like the clt iat etc are suseptible (sp) to EMI... wrap them in tinfoil to test and ground one end to get rid of static and see what happens!


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (mxman)*

So, it appears eurospeed.ca has a 16v trigger wheel for only $100, it slides over the stock damper, i'm going to use CHEVY coilpacks this sensor and a FORD vr sensor... F U vw...the less vw parts the better
it will be nice to go from 90 degrees between ignition events to...
8 i believe? hahaha
the hall just has too little resolution BOO


----------



## karmann16v (Sep 12, 2003)

*Re: (mxman)*

I have rewired a new DB37 connector. Wired the grounds differentlly then previouslly.
Before I had created a bus bar inside the DB37 for grounds and had just two ground wires leaving the connector.
I have now individually connected wires to the 8,9,10,11 and 19 pins and have connected them together to the ground outside the connector. 
seems to be working now.
Thanks.


----------



## steve r UK (Sep 11, 2007)

Can anyone help with my 16v question here?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3437940


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (steve r UK)*

Got a call from the dyno. The guy is basically giving up. He said on the VE table it's either too rich or too lean and says I need smaller injectors. I'm using the USRT 315 genesis injectors. After waiting 2 months this is NOT the news I wanted to hear.
The motor is a 1.8l 16v, schrick 268's, header, exhaust, etc.


_Modified by VTEC_EATER_16V at 12:16 PM 10-10-2007_


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

Sweet, $750 down the toilet and my car still doesn't run %100. Next time I ask what size injectors, I sure as hell ain't asking USRT again.


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

WAIT!!!
before you do that, try this...
we have had all kinds of tuning issues with cars running larger injectors. adding an additional spark box and high output coil makes a HUGE AND DRASTIC difference in the cars we have tuned. adding these components have allowed us to use way too large of injectors in NA motors (usually with boost in the future)...
my recomendation (what we have found the best performance for $$)
Mallory 6a
Crane Cams Fireball universal coil
add that in place of the stock ICM and coil and you will have no problem tuning the car http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (VWralley)*

Well, I talked to the "other" tuner and he had new info for me. He said when he changes something in the VE map, it works great until he turns the car off and on again. When he turns the car back on the changes still appear, but the car runs like it did BEFORE the changes. So I might have a bad ECU? Or just too big of injectors?
He said he can give it %40 throttle, but after that it hits a brick wall. When he changed the map it fixed it, but then after the car turns off, it runs like crap again. Yes, he's hitting "burn to ecu".
I wanna jump off a cliff.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (VTEC_EATER_16V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VTEC_EATER_16V* »_He said on the VE table it's either too rich or too lean and says I need smaller injectors. I'm using the USRT 315 genesis injectors.

Jacob, I can almost taste your frustration. I was pointed to this thread and have given your comments a read. Is your tuner actually saying that your afr is "either too rich or too lean"? He doesn't know the difference? Or, do you simply not recall what he said?

_Quote, originally posted by *VTEC_EATER_16V* »_Next time I ask what size injectors, I sure as hell ain't asking USRT again

This is probably the first time that our injector sizing advice has ever been called into question since 2003. That's okay. I'll say this, though, 315cc injectors are not large at ALL. Those are pea shooters. There is no way that the flow rate can possibly be the problem here. You could run an NA engine on huge injectors and simply trim down the duty cycle. Remember that even the stoutest turbo engine is normally aspirated at idle. Again, 315cc is a very _small_ injector. They can be tuned easily if the hardware is functioning correctly and the tuner knows what he's doing.

_Quote, originally posted by *VTEC_EATER_16V* »_When he turns the car back on the changes still appear, but the car runs like it did BEFORE the changes. So I might have a bad ECU? Or just too big of injectors?

It sounds to me that the ECU is misbehaving. There is no way that these 315cc are too large for your engine. Anybody that knows their way around engine tuning will verify this claim to be true.


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i agree with scott also..315cc's are in no way too large for a 16v and you should not be having that many issues.
i have 30 lb/hr in mine with no ill effects what so ever (although i do use the additional spark box). I have seen a situation similar to yours and it was fixed by adding the spark box and coil. however that was on an 8v with 550cc inj...
see if you can get your hands on a different ecu and if that helps you situation, very strange that it will change then be basically erased after the car is turned off..


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (VWralley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Jacob, I can almost taste your frustration. I was pointed to this thread and have given your comments a read. Is your tuner actually saying that your afr is "either too rich or too lean"? He doesn't know the difference? Or, do you simply not recall what he said?


He said whenever he changed something, it would read either too high or too low and wouldn't go in the middle. He said if the ve map could do negatives, it'd work but it can't.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
This is probably the first time that our injector sizing advice has ever been called into question since 2003. That's okay. I'll say this, though, 315cc injectors are not large at ALL. Those are pea shooters. There is no way that the flow rate can possibly be the problem here. You could run an NA engine on huge injectors and simply trim down the duty cycle. Remember that even the stoutest turbo engine is normally aspirated at idle. Again, 315cc is a very _small_ injector. They can be tuned easily if the hardware is functioning correctly and the tuner knows what he's doing.


Yeah don't take it personally. I've been waiting to get my car back for over 2 months and now they're telling me they can't finish it. So while I said that, I take it back and am truely sorry. I'm just very frusterated right now.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
It sounds to me that the ECU is misbehaving. There is no way that these 315cc are too large for your engine. Anybody that knows their way around engine tuning will verify this claim to be true.


Yeah, that's what I'm thinking after getting that new info. I searched the MS forums and there seems to be a bug with MS not "saving" values sometimes. So I called the guy and told him how to fix it and he's going to get back to me. Thanks for the suggestions guys.


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

just a quick ?, is this tuner experianced with MS stuff? and has he had his wideband calibrated recently (if possible)...i know i had one that i hadnt calibrated for a long time (innovate lm-1 unit w/ bosch sensor) and it gave some wacky readings...


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (VWralley)*

Well, the last time he worked w/MS was a few years ago, so I was paying him hourly(at a cheaper rate) to "Get up to date" on it and tune it.
He's been doing this for a while(tuning cars). I'm pretty sure the problem though is the "not burning to ecu" bug. I guess after you modify something you have to click in a box you haven't modded yet, and THEN burn it. This supposedly fixes the problem, but I'm going to have to wait for him to call to see if it's indeed the gremlin.


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

that an maybe update the firmware to a new version to get rid of any bugs...not sure how old the ecu is


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (VWralley)*

It's a 2.2 ecu modded w/vb921 coil driver and it has the latest firmware.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

It sounds like he's tuning in the tuning screen and not burning to the prom before he keys off. You HAVE TO BURN TO ECU to make any changes permanent.
Also, there's no reason a VE number should need to be below about 40-50, and definitely not negative. Make sure all the constants are right, link your msq here or post some screenshots.


_Modified by need_a_VR6 at 8:31 AM 10-11-2007_


----------



## lostwabbit (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

hey are you still working with the megasquirt? because i have questions. i just finished putting together mine and installed it into the car and need some pointers on making it run better. first question is what fuel psi do you run with 24psi injector on a na 2.0 16v?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (lostwabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lostwabbit* »_first question is what fuel psi do you run with 24psi injector on a na 2.0 16v?

I think you mean a 24lb (250cc) fuel injector. Anyway, how much power are you trying to make here? Please specify whether you mean whp or bhp. Secondly, what's your compression ratio? Third, what's your redline going to be? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_It sounds like he's tuning in the tuning screen and not burning to the prom before he keys off. You HAVE TO BURN TO ECU to make any changes permanent.
Also, there's no reason a VE number should need to be below about 40-50, and definitely not negative. Make sure all the constants are right, link your msq here or post some screenshots.

_Modified by need_a_VR6 at 8:31 AM 10-11-2007_

Like I said before, they ARE doing that before the car is shut off. He tried clicking in a different cell before burning and tried to reload the msq file and neither things works. I think my ecu is bunk. Or I need to reflash.


----------



## lostwabbit (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! ([email protected])*

i would love to get about 150 whp. i have 9:1 compression, i was going to do a turbo with low boost later on. and my redline was going to be 7000. can you help point me in the right direction.


----------



## lostwabbit (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! ([email protected])*

i would love to get about 150 whp,but i'll settle for just running right. i have 9:1 compression, i was going to do a turbo with low boost later on. and my redline was going to be 7000. can you help point me in the right direction. has anyone used the stock O2, or does everone use the wideband. i'm having troubles getting the right fuel to air ratio, it surges when i even come close to the proper reading. thanks for hearing me wine...


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (lostwabbit)*

Okay, you could certainly use those 24lb injectors at 3bar and make 150whp. However, since 30lb won't be any harder to control, cost about the same amount but have a higher resale value, and impress tuner types more (







), that's the direction I'd go in. If you already have some 24lb, then keep'm and get to work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

Could be corrupt firmware or just a super old build of MT causing problems. Make sure you're using the latest MT (2.25P1) and use the latest Extra or Hires and see if you have the same problem.


----------



## lostwabbit (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! ([email protected])*

thanks for the tip. let me try to tune with a 3 bar fuel regulator i bought at a bugout. i was allways wondering about that, hopefully that will help me get the O2 reading closer.


----------



## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*COMPLETE Noob Questions*

Okay....First of All I HAVE read all 42 pages of this thread and many of the main links. It took three days, and I needed a snack.
I am excited about putting MS in my 1983 Scirocco that I am converting to a 16v with a 2.0l 9A setup. I plan to put in cams in the 266 range, some form of performance exhaust, p&p head. I am still deciding with respect to whether I will put in ITBs or stick a 3" cone filter on the stock intake manifold.....I am leaning towards motorcycle ITBs. Here is a link to what I am doing:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3404606

I understand that there are currently 2 different boards designs...a version 2.2 and a version 3 that I can get. I understand that I have a choice of 2 processors, MS 1 or MS 2. I understand that if I use MS 1 I will have to flash the ECU to run MSnS with my ex motronic system. (I would want to run spark too in any event)
I think I understand most of what I will need to do this, but have a few questions that I want feedback and opinions on:
1. I initially thought that MS2 would be 'newer and better' but I see that most people on this forum seem to be using MS1 with MSnS. Given what I wish to do, should I use MSnS or MS2. Please explain why.
2. Should I get a v2.2 board or a v. 3 board. Again, if you have an opinion, please explain why.
3. With either system, does it make sense to run ITBs? Any thoughts on this at all as a reasonable option.
4. Can I use the stock motorcycle injectors with MS? (I believe I can get injectors in the 315cc range) Would this be an advantage to using the ports in the intake manifold?
5. For a na setup (I have NO interest in boost) that I would like to get 150+wHP out of, what size of injectors. 315/317cc seem to be about right I think, but would like input.
6. What the heck is a fidle?
7. Can I start programming my MS setup with Megatune without actually having my MS hardware? That would be cool. I won't be able to actually put the MS stuff in my car until next spring at the earliest.
8. What is MS 6a. I see it mentioned on other forums, but rarely here.


_Modified by PASHAT at 1:35 PM 10-13-2007_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (PASHAT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PASHAT* »_
1. I initially thought that MS2 would be 'newer and better' but I see that most people on this forum seem to be using MS1 with MSnS. Given what I wish to do, should I use MSnS or MS2. Please explain why.

Most people are still using MS1 as it's cheaper and until recently there wasn't 'extra' code for the MS2 processor. MS2 extra is being used by people in testing, but I wouldn't recommend it for someone just starting out. You can always get the MS2 processor later. 

_Quote »_
2. Should I get a v2.2 board or a v. 3 board. Again, if you have an opinion, please explain why.

V2.2 is fine for a distro/hall/single spark. A V3 has a proto area and better support for a VR crank trigger and multiple spark putputs. 

_Quote »_3. With either system, does it make sense to run ITBs? Any thoughts on this at all as a reasonable option.

You can run ITB's on any of them.

_Quote »_4. Can I use the stock motorcycle injectors with MS? (I believe I can get injectors in the 315cc range) Would this be an advantage to using the ports in the intake manifold?

Yes as long as they're big enough for the hp you plan to make. Injectors upstream can cause some funny tuning problems at very low load, however. 

_Quote »_5. For a na setup (I have NO interest in boost) that I would like to get 150+wHP out of, what size of injectors. 315/317cc seem to be about right I think, but would like input.

Plenty big, I've tuned over 170whp on 4 x 30lb.

_Quote »_6. What the heck is a fidle?

Fidle = fast idle

_Quote »_7. Can I start programming my MS setup with Megatune without actually having my MS hardware? That would be cool. I won't be able to actually put the MS stuff in my car until next spring at the earliest.

Yes, download Megatune 2.25 P1 and start hacking away.

_Quote »_8. What is MS 6a. I see it mentioned on other forums, but rarely here.

Aftermarket CDI ignition, used on distro cars. Works well, I did an ABF with a 6AL before.


----------



## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (need_a_VR6)*

Thanks for your reply. 
I have downloaded Megatune for MSnS. It took me a while to figure out that there are two versions of MT....one for plain MS1 and a different one for MSnS. I had to uninstall the plain one to get the second one to install properly and give me ALL the options.
It is really fun to figure this stuff out and am glad to be able to look at the program without the hardware.
I still have three questions for clarification:
1. If I buy a MS1 2.2 board, will I have to buy a separate ignition module (my vehicle has no bosch ignition module so I think I need that VT thing.)
2. I do not see a listing for the MS 6A at DIYTUNING.com. Does the 6a refer to hardware or software. Also, what is a distro car. Is this a car with a stock distributor? 
3, Does 'plenty big' = 'too big'? Or is 315cc a good size to aim for?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (PASHAT)*

There's only one version, but you have to run the configurator to set it up for msns and a few of the other options.
1) You will need some sort of ignition module, be it a 7pin Bosch, a 3pin on coil Bosch (ABA, VR6 and 16v CIS Motronic use these), a VB921 or an aftermarket ignition like an MSD, etc. 
2) MSD 6A/6AL is a complete ignition system. Like THIS
3) Plenty big isn't too big, 42lb/hr on a sub 200whp car is.







30lb/hr is big enough for almost any setup and small enough to allow plenty of resolution.


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (need_a_VR6)*

I got my car back today. First thing I did when I got home was hook it up to my laptop. I changed some settings in the VE map, burned, then turned the car off and back on again and my changes were still there and made a difference(opposite of what I was told). I don't know wtf these ppl are thinking, or how they call themselves a business.
If you're in the oregon area, avoid Ground Zero Motorsports like the plague. What a ripoff.


----------



## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_There's only one version, but you have to run the configurator to set it up for msns and a few of the other options.


Thanks for pointing that out. I downloaded and thought I installed the msns options, but they didn't show up until I uninstalled the plain version and reinstalled the one with msns.


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
1) You will need some sort of ignition module, be it a 7pin Bosch, a 3pin on coil Bosch (ABA, VR6 and 16v CIS Motronic use these), a VB921 or an aftermarket ignition like an MSD, etc. 


I might have one then since my engine, coil and dizzy are from a 16v Motronic. But the VB 921 is pretty inexpensive. I will check to make sure my coil has one though.
I will have lots of questions later. Right now I am still gathering up hardware and rebuilding my head and block. A few months away from wiring it up.
What size injectors would be too small? (I am still considering using the ones that come with the ITB's. Seems to me that getting the TB, TBS, injectors and fuel rail as one "buy" might be the least expensive option.
Aren't most bike injectors downstream from the butterflies?



_Modified by PASHAT at 7:02 PM 10-15-2007_


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (PASHAT)*

if you use the stock 16v injector spacing, a 1.8t fuel rail will work with ITB's and cost a lot less then the other alternatives


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (PASHAT)*

I second the 1.8T rail, works nicely with a stock 16v lower mated to the GSXR throttles. 
You can go down close to a stock 19lb/hr injector from an ABA/VR6 just watch the duty cycle. If you're buying new, just go right to 30lb. Used the G60's are usually a good deal. 
The injectors on the GSXR ITB's are about 20lb/hr which will be enough for most mild setups. They are behind the throttle plates, but back far enough from the valve that you can actually SEE the injector pulse and afr difference at low load in the datalogs. After about 2000rpm it smooths out a bit though.


----------



## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (need_a_VR6)*

If I got Bike TB and injectors, I wouldn't need the i.8 Rail and injectors though, would I? Just have to block off the injector ports? 
And MS wouldn't care if it was controlling bike injectors or VW ones?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (PASHAT)*

So long as those injectors are high-impedance (i.e. 12ohms+) you can drive them with any MS ECU. If your MS is built to drive low-impedance then you can run any injector, period. Plug up any open injector ports and you'll be good to go. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions ([email protected])*

Do you determine whether they are high or low impetence by testing the leads with a voltmeter?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (PASHAT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PASHAT* »_Do you determine whether they are high or low impetence by testing the leads with a voltmeter?

Yep, that's right. The low-impedance injectors are typically in the 2 - 6 ohm range and the high-impedance are 12 - 16. Again, though, if your MS was built to work with either, then it doesn't really matter which you've got. Low-impedance is generally faster than an equivalent high. That won't matter a bit until we're talking about flows in excess of 630cc, though.


----------



## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions ([email protected])*

Thanks. Although it doesn't matter with respect to performance, I know I need to tell MS which ones I have!


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (PASHAT)*

The GSXR ones that I have are high impedance.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions ([email protected])*

wrapped my entire underhood harness and leads to sensors in tinfoil with split loom, seemed to help a lot.. thought i'd pass this on..

anybody thought of making a hall dizzy vane with 36 windows in it? just a thought for everybody..


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (mxman)*

regrounded all of my grounds i had to the chassis to the battery...seemed to help, not sure..
btw, a good place to steal your switched 12v is from the original fuel pump terminal, just make sure you have it only powerin ga relay under the hood and inturn powering the accesories like o2 heater and crank pos sensor since you don't want it to fry the fusible links in your harness/box. 
Also for powering the fuel pump itself... take a lug style spade and slide it in the slot after grinding it down a bit...woot.
I installed my g60 injectors and my duty cycle went from 100 to 80% at 13.2 @ 5800 rpm with an air filter on a stick, 4-1header and tt exhaust... woot.


----------



## machine_war (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions ([email protected])*

what kind of modifacation would i have to make on a 1.8t fuel rail for my ms?


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (machine_war)*


_Quote, originally posted by *machine_war* »_what kind of modifacation would i have to make on a 1.8t fuel rail for my ms?

um none unless its going on a setup it does not fit, then you would need to make it fit...


----------



## machine_war (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (VWralley)*








wait? so it does not fit?


----------



## machine_war (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (machine_war)*

what do i need to do to make it fit..


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (machine_war)*

what are you trying to put it on? 
kinda hard to answer your question with no idea what you are trying to put together










_Modified by VWralley at 9:50 AM 11-9-2007_


----------



## machine_war (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (VWralley)*

my 87 gli.


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (machine_war)*

thats the car, what MOTOR?


----------



## machine_war (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (machine_war)*

im putting together mega squirt and i got the rail from the junker yesterday sorry i should have been more clear...im a newb.


----------



## machine_war (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (machine_war)*

16 valle pl.


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (machine_war)*

i believe the spacing is correct, but you have to fab up some brackets to mount the rail


----------



## machine_war (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (VWralley)*

Alright thanks







what kind of injectors would you recomend.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (machine_war)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWralley* »_i believe the spacing is correct, but you have to fab up some brackets to mount the rail

This is correct. The 16v and the 1.8T both have a 90-90-90-90mm on center spacing. All you need are custom brackets to make it work.

_Quote, originally posted by *machine_war* »_Alright thanks







what kind of injectors would you recomend.

What kind of power are you trying to support? Are you running forced induction or staying naturally aspirated?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions ([email protected])*

The 1.8T rail won't clear the manifold unless it has ITBs, a short runner setup or the rail is modified. It might fit under an ABF setup, but the regular PL/9A one has a sharper bend.


----------



## machine_war (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions ([email protected])*

im going to stay n/a i wanna to make 180 whp or so.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (machine_war)*


_Quote, originally posted by *machine_war* »_im going to stay n/a i wanna to make 180 whp or so.

Okay, for that little bit of power you'd be well served with some 315cc/30lb injectors. The Genesis 315cc would be an excellent idea because of their quick response time and spray pattern. I've got 8 pieces left before they're gone forever, too. 
Paul is right on point with his advice regarding the intake situation, btw.







for him.


----------



## machine_war (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions ([email protected])*

ok so what do i need to do to get it to clear the mani? and if i did want to make more power later(still keeping it n/a) would those injectors hold up.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (machine_war)*


_Quote, originally posted by *machine_war* »_ok so what do i need to do to get it to clear the mani? and if i did want to make more power later(still keeping it n/a) would those injectors hold up.

Which manifold are you trying to clear? This is a details game, bud. You've got to explain yourself in full or we can't advise you properly. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
As for the injectors, you can certainly get 220bhp out of them at 3bar fuel pressure. Bump it up higher and you'll be able to support even more. By then, the 16v head will be at its flow limits. The point is that the 315cc should take you farther than you can possibly go.


----------



## machine_war (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions ([email protected])*

its the stock 1.8 intake manifold im not sure what size it is


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (machine_war)*

No worries, m8. If you're working with the standard manifold, the easiest and safest way to go is with an aftermarket piece built specifically for the task. You can find those on our website as well as some others.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions ([email protected])*

As far as I know the BBM fuel rail is the only one that clears the stock manifold without modifications.


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (need_a_VR6)*

im using the one that can be had on ebay for about 100-115 shipped, works great no fitment issues or anything


----------



## Eoin16V (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (L33t A2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *L33t A2* »_im using the one that can be had on ebay for about 100-115 shipped, works great no fitment issues or anything

is that the one that says 16v digi2 fuel rail on ebay?


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (Eoin16V)*

same one as this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW
and here it is in the car


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (L33t A2)*

you should connect that snail thing to your intake manifold!


----------



## winnipeg passat (Jan 19, 2007)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (mxman)*

I posted the following in the ITB post but have yet to get 
a response:
_
Hi all.
I'm almost finished my project and I need to get it running. The hard part now seems to be finding a nice .msq for my setup. It's a 2.0 16v with the Autotech cams, ported and polished head and Super Blackbird throttle bodies running on MS2 with an Innovate wideband. The fuel rail and injectors are from a New Beetle 1.8T. I'm waiting on a little bit of intake welding to get finished so I've decided that today is "Hook up the battery for the first time" day.
I'll admit it, I'm a MS noob and I'm scared.
I've searched numerous web sites from here to texasneons.org and not had any luck. Funnily enough, the links in Patatron's forum don't work any more...
Much thanks. 
_ 
I also understand that Alpha-N is recommended - true?
Share your .msq goodness.
Thanks.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (winnipeg passat)*

Definitely alpha-n.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (L33t A2)*

itb's ftw, i'd prolly run ms2 with the extra code so you can get the kpa/s enrichment (how fast the air pressure changes in the intake manifold as read by the map sensor 


_Modified by mxman at 3:41 AM 11-13-2007_


----------



## lostwabbit (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (need_a_VR6)*

i'm new to the MS also, and i just want to know the reason for the alpha-n setting vs. speed density.just want a vw guy to explain it to me. maybe i can understand it better .thanks


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (lostwabbit)*

The value in tuning with Alpha-N won't bend your brain at all. In order for speed density to work effectively, there must be a stable manifold pressure/vacuum. However, with ITBs there is no plenum in place to average out the pressure pulses that eminate from each cylinder. So, tuning only with speed density (MAP) on ITBs can make for a very foul running engine. The idle will hunt all over the place and throttle tip in response can be very poor. So... at low rpms the throttle position sensor's input is used alone and the MAP sensor is ignored. As the revs rise and the MAP signal becomes reliable enough to use, the ECU blends the inputs and transitions to mostly or only MAP. That's Alpha-N operation in a nutshell.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions ([email protected])*

Alpha-N doesn't use MAP at all unless you're intentionally using a blended type algorithm. If you have no MAP range anyway, there's no reason to use blended at all, it actually makes things worse.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Alpha-N doesn't use MAP at all unless you're intentionally using a blended type algorithm. If you have no MAP range anyway, there's no reason to use blended at all, it actually makes things worse.

Actually, I misspoke and should clarify... Alpha-N itself uses only TPS and RPM for tuning. The blending with MAP is commonly done for because engine load is more accurately measured by manifold absolute pressure vs throttle position. Of course, that's only if the MAP signal is stable/consistent to begin with.
For sure, blending solved my issues with tuning ITBs. MAP wasn't useable at idle up to around 2000rpms. Alpha-N down at the bottom and then a transition to MAP made it smooth. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions ([email protected])*

You must not have big enough cams or enough compression then


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (need_a_VR6)*

Well... It's got 11.3:1 and Schrick 268/276. I'm not sure if that's "enough" or not.







This is a 2032cc 16v engine, btw.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions ([email protected])*

If it idles under 70kpa you need more of something.







I would bet at part throttle you're 'double using' load points with that setup. As long as all your low load is tuned to stoich it's fine, but if you're trying to go any leaner it doesn't work at all. Going to full Alpha makes the tuning easier.


----------



## lostwabbit (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions ([email protected])*

thanks for the explaining it to me. i'm on speed density and i've been trying to make my car run right for two months now.on the tuning page i always wonder why my idle was moving all over the place, with your explaination i have some hope in tuning my car . thanks again guys...


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (lostwabbit)*

Make sure that afr at idle is nice and rich for more torque, more advance down low makes it run cooler at idle and easier to prevent stalling when running big cams i'm told. I also experienced lean afr and a lot of timing made my car too responsive when winter and stalled all the time.. real annoying if you ask me...









BTW, grounded XG1 to the battery and I don't think it did much. I'm going to get some new shielded rpm signal wire and see if that helps..lol


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (mxman)*

Ok just for everyone's reference.
USE A FOILED SHIELDED WIRE WITH DRAIN FOR TACH SIGNAL FROM HALL SENSOR. 
GROUND XG1-> HEAD/BLOCK/BATT-
GROUND WIRE BRAID (DRAIN) to HEAD/BLOCK/BATT-
It helped a bunch on my setup...lol.. and don't forget to install spares 1-4 on your relay cable if using a relay cable DOH i forgot, lol. I was scratching my head as to why i couldn't get tach sig, but the relay cable guide never tells you to install pin 36 or spares 1-4...hhaha..damnit!
Thanks in advance, hopefully this helps.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (mxman)*

What spark mods are you running because normally grounding XG1 will ground the input?


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (need_a_VR6)*

xg1 grounds the optoisolator paul







the cathode of the led








http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/v3pcb_3.gif



_Modified by mxman at 12:56 AM 11-20-2007_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: COMPLETE Noob Questions (mxman)*

You must be running high to low hall then, I always bring the hall input into XG1:


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## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

does this system run of a 60-2 trigger in any systems????


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (austin neuschafer)*

Yes, yes it does. Megasquirt I-extra, Megasquirt II and Megasquirt II -extra all support 60-2 trigger setups.


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## bertelli (Aug 30, 2005)

I use the stock 60-2 wheel on my Mk2 1.8t conversion, running ms1, msns-e & it works perfectly.


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## lostwabbit (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: (bertelli)*

has any one used the 60 tooth wheel on their 16v? if so what do you need. and how do you have it mounted? just wondering because i wanted to put a edis-4 ignition on mine. if i can keep it german i rather do that .


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## bertelli (Aug 30, 2005)

*Re: (lostwabbit)*

You can't use a 60-2 with edis - that will only work with a 36-1 crank wheel. You can use the coilpack from an edis car (like I have done) but not the module, you need to add another vb921 coil driver and run wasted spark.


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## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

*Re: (lostwabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lostwabbit* »_has any one used the 60 tooth wheel on their 16v? if so what do you need. and how do you have it mounted? just wondering because i wanted to put a edis-4 ignition on mine. if i can keep it german i rather do that .

You could try to get a hold of this crank position sensor. It's part # : 036 105 189 C...Its available for ~$88US or so.

__
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## lostwabbit (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: (frechem)*

with this set up do you think i could run the same coils the 1.8t have? has anyone made it work?


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## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (frechem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *frechem* »_
You could try to get a hold of this crank position sensor. It's part # : 036 105 189 C...Its available for ~$88US or so.

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This is just beautiful, PHAT stuff







- where's my credit card.....
exactly what the doctor ordered for my crazy 9A http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

Well, you can disregard this post. I'm embarassed to say, but on his laptop, the configurator was set to speed density instead of alpha-n.
Works now. It's magic.

















_Modified by VTEC_EATER_16V at 8:12 PM 12-3-2007_


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## JWJET1 (May 1, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mk216vt (May 1, 2007)

Im install megasquirt into my 16vt and was wondering if I just take out all of my old wires or will i need to save some.


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## winnipeg passat (Jan 19, 2007)

*Re: (mk216vt)*

Check my 16v MS2 distro thread.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3536196


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (frechem)*

this is a dealer part?
_Quote, originally posted by *frechem* »_
You could try to get a hold of this crank position sensor. It's part # : 036 105 189 C...Its available for ~$88US or so.

__
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## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

now i just need the actual sensor part number for that - found the other piece a while ago....
06 Lupo.. Anyone got ETKA-7?


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3558468


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## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

like frankenstien...back from the dead!


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## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (hasnfefr)*

wasn't hasnfefr what they had on looney tunes when we were kids? lol

btw i ordered a hall->60-2 from INA , what a good guy to deal with! 
I'll let you know how it goes!


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## Golden (Jun 14, 2002)

Hi guys, does anyone know where I can get a look at some VE and Spark tables based on AlphaN/Throttle position rather than MAP?
Thanks guys.


_Modified by Golden at 5:21 AM 2-3-2008_


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (Golden)*

Has anyone upfitted MSnS to a 88 audi 90. Converting off the stock FEI ignition system? Ive spent all this money on upgrading off the stock CIS and Im a bit frustrated!!







I thought I had all the wires right. Just not getting any negative pulse from pin 36 on MS to the Coil. ANYTHING would help!!


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## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

Do you have a pic of your connections for tach signal. Are you using the Bosch ICU?
Need more info? Are you trying to control spark at this point or are you just trying to get signal?
Was the old system CIS or EFI?


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (sharpshooter33)*

Here's the thing. Everything I have read was so indecisive, that I wasnt sure where to hook my tach signal up to. I bought my MS1 V3.0 from diyautotune.com along with the wiring harness. I believe that I would use the white shielded wire for the tach signal. But in reading so much. I thought that that wire goes to the middle wire of the hall sender.
I am trying to control spark. I found this site and was using this as a basis. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2545204. So, I modded my pcb according to what that site was saying.
The old system was CIS motronic.
I was trying not to use the stock ignition control unit.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

The first site you need: http://www.msextra.com/manuals...x.htm
V3 for hall: http://www.msextra.com/manuals...#hall
Use 5v low to high and get the hall power from TPS+ pin 26
V3 output for Bosch Module: http://www.msextra.com/manuals...bosch
I've used these before with success. 
If you have a V3 and have the VB921 fitted you can not use the Bosch module if you so desire.
You will need the stock 7 pin module but not the ignition control "knock box" that might be on your car. 


_Modified by need_a_VR6 at 1:32 PM 2-7-2008_


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

I have the FEI ignition system. So i dont have the 7 pin module. Its the 3 pin power output. I have a hall sender and I have a knock sensor. Im not too worried about the knock sensor.
I can crank the engine over, just no spark.
I also have my laptop hooked up so I can see whats happening.
If everything is hooked up right, are you supposed to see the RPMs go up during cranking?


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## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

you should see movement in the rpm when cranking. usually low rpm 300-500 maybe. Sounds like your not getting signal from the hall. How is your wiring to the Hall? I'm assuming since you have a 3 wire hall coming out of the dizzy? How are you wired from the connector on your dizzy? EFI still had ICU's on the VW's into the 90's are you sure you don't have an ICU sitting on top of the old ECU? Are your trying to control spark or just get signal on your MS? Was everything working on you Stim?


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (sharpshooter33)*

First off, I believe that my hall sender is a 12v. That being said, I have the middle wire as the signal wire. That goes to pin 25. Then the ground wire which is brown. That goes to the block's ground. And the power wire is connected to pin 15.
When I pulled my ECU out, It was only the black case. I think the ICU is somewhere on the drivers footwell.
Yes, I am trying to control spark with MSnS.
The only thing that didnt work on my stim was the Coolant pot. I could only adjust it a few degrees.


_Modified by thepkilla at 12:48 PM 2-7-2008_


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

From reading one of your earlier posts sharpshooter. I have adapted my MS to what your's is. That is, the hall sender pins. And the internal modding. I already had quite a few mods done. Im going to try to get the tach signal into MS and get a spark. Hopefully!! Do you still use pin 36 for the neg. signal to the coil?


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## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

I haven't messed with my MS for awhile. It is wired still like it was in my earlier posts. I believe it's the 36 Pin, but I would have to look at my drawings. If you have a MS1 running MSnS with a PCB 3.0 board then they are the same settings. What are your settings on your dizzy? you distributor has to be moved from it's original settings when you change from original to MS. there is about a 60 degree change. Offset angle. Did you set that up? 


_Modified by sharpshooter33 at 7:43 PM 2-7-2008_


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (sharpshooter33)*

No, I didnt know that. Do I adjust Clockwise or counter clockwise from TDC or from BTDC?


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## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

Here is a good post on signal;
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2545204
I'm not sure on the dizzy angle. I know it requires some change because there is a lag between signal to coil signal. The ECU has something to do with it vs the orig system. There is some writing on it somewhere I'll have to look. There was a good write up on it somewhere. Theat would not be your signal problem though. The signal in is not effected by that only the spark and timing. I think what you were saying is that your not getting a signal in. Relook at where your 3 wires are wired to. and take a look at the above link
BTW 12v or 5v is only a difference of where you wire from under the board. I think mine was wired from the 5v source you would use the 12v source under the board. I'll look for that link also










_Modified by sharpshooter33 at 8:23 PM 2-7-2008_


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (sharpshooter33)*

Thanx. Youve been a big help!!


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

Well, I have three wires on the Hall sender connector. They are: Brown, Purple, and Purple/black stripe. The solid purple is the middle wire. Now that goes to pin 26 on MS? Is the brown wire the ground? Where did you say the 12v source is under the PCB? One more question. I got a TPS from autohausaz.com P# 0280120308. Im having problems with it. It goes from 17% to 100% and flood clear mode in just a few inches of moving the pedal. Is there anything I can do to fix this? Or do I need a different one?


_Modified by thepkilla at 7:22 PM 2-7-2008_


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

I looked in my book and got the electrical wiring diag. Hopefully I have figured them out. (1)Ground (Brwn/Yel) (2)Signal (Vlt) (3)12v (Vlt/Blk). Really, that looks about right. I think thats the way I origionally had it setup. But, I dont think I had the signal connected to the right corresponding pin on the MS. I read somewhere in the forums that someone needed a 1k resistor between the signal and the 12v source. Sound right?


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## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

Here's what I had:
My PCB V3 is a little different that described above.
I have my:
hall signal wire coming in on Pin#24 (center wire green)
hall ground wire coming into pin#7 (ground wire brown or a good ground)
hall power wire coming into pin#26 (5+V power wire red)
Coil neg wire coming into pin#36(coil signal D17(R26) in megatune)
THESE ARE ALL PINS ON MEGASQUIRT I (no relay board)
MSI running MSnSE with the following internal wiring:
TACHSELECT to OPTOIN and wired to 1K resistor to 5v near Proto area
IGN to IGBTOUT
XG1 to XG2
TSEL to OPTOOUT
IGBTIN to 330ohm resister wired to top of R26
Megatune for MSnSE
Spark Out Inverted = yes
LED17 = SparkA

IF you use 12v to power your hall use connection to 28 (this is also the MS power in) and under the board you will connect to the 12v instead of the 5v I used on optoin
If anyone has anything else chime in


_Modified by sharpshooter33 at 11:01 PM 2-7-2008_


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## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: (sharpshooter33)*

THis is also a great page to read over. I can open my box up tomorrow and take a look, but I don't have digital to take pic's
http://www.msextra.com/manuals...#hall http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (sharpshooter33)*

Thanks, that page helped!! I think that I finally have it. Going out to install and wire. I'll let ya know if it works.


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

Found out last night that the hall sender is bad. Getting a new one. Apparently Siemens doesnt make hall senders anymore. I have to adapt one from honeywell. Hope it works! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

I got another hall sender and still no spark!! I know the the hall sender is giving the middle wire 12v but MS acts as if its not getting any info from the hall!! I decided to put a 1k 1/6W 5% resistor between sender wire and power wire. Still no spark!!







Any thoughts. 

V3 PCB


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

V3 pcb modded for 12v hall, correct? http://www.msextra.com/manuals...#hall
Using the low to high diagram?
Do you have a multimeter with a frequency feature? If so put that on the hall center pin and ground and see if you can read a frequency while cranking. Or if you have a 12v LED you can see if it blinks as you crank.


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Yea, V3 pcb modded for 12v hall. Using the low to high diag. There was a 12v frequency when I put an inline 1k 1/6w 5% resistor between the signal wire and supply wire close to the hall sender. Then I checked inside the MS and there was 4v at the tachselect pin. When I disconnected the resistor, I didnt get anything. I still didnt get a spark, or a RPM signal. It wasnt any type of intermittent signal either. Just a steady 12v. I'm wondering if these hall senders are supposed to be 5v instead of 12v. Maybe too much power. What a pain in my arse!!


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## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (sharpshooter33)*

Thap, most hall sensors in the aftermarket world are rated 5v-24v ...the oem handles 5 and 12, mine has used 12v for 2 years with no issues other than a bent hall vane wearing the magnet from when i shipped the engine from cross country originally...
60-2 kit from INA mounted... it seems to have rpm... i'm using ms2 extra in one ecu and ms2 b+g 2.870 for daily driving... i'm able to swap back and forth















two ecu's ftw...
i'll keep ya posted... i have it mounted with tooth 43 at TDC ..the only thing is i'm not coilpacks yet so i'll have to synch my advance with a timing light or something so the dizzy windows line up properly with the 60-2, any advice would be appreciated..
but yeah, xg1's primary usage with ms2 non extra is to bring signal frmo the optoisolator to ground xg2 i believe is the grounding pin..it really erally helped to ground xg1 to the valve cover noise wise.. i thoroughly recommend using this setup... but MS2E has trigger return now, so double the ignition teeth ... it takes the rising and falling sides of the vane into account!












_Modified by mxman at 7:47 PM 2-12-2008_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (mxman)*

They can run at either, and I've done both. If you tap your hall center wire to ground you repeatedly you should rpm. If you don't its a MS circuit problem, if you do then it's a hall problem.


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

I took a hall sensor from a running 1990 audi 100 and put it into the 1988 audi 90 with MS in it. Didnt get any spark. Put it back into the 100 and no spark! I dunno if I have some sort of wiring problem, but I cant figure out why I'm going through hall sensors.


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

Ok, ok! This sounds stupid. In all the assembly instructions, I misread a few instructions and didnt install the VB921 nor R43. Ha, HA.







Could this be why Ive burnt through two hall sensors??







BTW. If anyone needs a new hall sensor, check out newark.com. Long story short. Since I havent gotten my hall sensor yet, they sent me out another one next day air!!! Free of charge!!! Now thats SERVICE! Anywho, as soon as I get my hall sensor I'll try installing MS again. I got my DIGI II injector caps and some 30# injectors today!! Kinda pointless untill I get it running! Oh well, let the good times roll.


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## sharpshooter33 (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

Ouch. Which Stim do you have? Jim-Stim or 2.2 or older? Is your stim wired to show you spark out?


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (sharpshooter33)*

I have the 2.2 stim. It is wired for spark output. I broke a lead off the main transistor. I had to put a similar one in and just the last two LEDs work. I got the middle LED on the MS to show ignition output. So, thats good!


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

Anyone know why I dont get any intermittant signal from my new hall sender? I just get a solid +4.5v even when I spin the dizzy with my fingers!







Brand freakin new and still doesnt work!!


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## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (Captain16vGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Captain16vGTI* »_Alright guys, I just got my 16v fired up using my v3 board to control spark. Im gonna try to make this a very detailed write up covering the whole process. Before I go on any further id like to say thanks to Dave (cdndub) and Calvin (kalvinlk) for all the help. This write up is based off of Dave's original write up but it will include a couple of things that were left out along with pictures. Thanks again guys.
First off, I purchased my v3 board already assembled because I didn't have the time to build it myself. Because of this I was kinda left out on the basic internals of ms. I read and asked a bunch of questions and eventually understood everything (well mostly everything







).
This pictures is good to use to get a basic idea of where things are located on the v3 board. 








With all that said I will now get on to the procedures that need to be made to make this thing control spark. 
First things first. TACHSELECT should be jumperd to OPTOIN. If its not please do so. 
2. After that you will need to solder a jumper wire to the previous jumper and run it over to the +5 pad above the proto area. You can see the +5 pad on the top side of the pcb. Like Dave said, This will give you 5v to power the hall. (cleaner signal)
3. Next you will have to cut the jumper between XG1 and XG2 if there is already one installed. After that you will need to run a jumper wire from XG1 and IAC-1A. This is the input for the tach signal from the dizzy.
4. If not already done you will have to jumper TSEL to OPTOOUT. 
5. This step pretty much depends on which firmware you are running on your v3 board. Basically this step is where you send a signal to the IGBT (onboard ignition driver) to let it know when to fire. On the v3 board the input is labeled IGBTIN. The output to this is what varies depending on what code you are using. The default output for the standard ms2 code is JS10 (ign). If you are using the standard ms2 code then run a jumper from IGBTIN to JS10. 
I on the other hand am still using the ms1 processor but running it with MSnS -E so I can control spark. If your running MSnS like I am then the default output is one of the led's. In this case you will have to run a jumper from IGBTIN to the top of R26 with a 330ohm 1/4 watt resister inline. You will be able to see R26 from the top of the pcb board. You can also refer to the pcb picture posted above. The reason you don't want to use JS10 with MSnS is because JS10 is a input for knock control. Check out the pictures below.
















6. Next jumper IGBTOUT to IGN if not already jumperd. This is the output to the coil (pulsed ground).
Now that all the internal mods have been performed we will move onto the wiring. Your basic hall sensor will have three wires. The three wires consist of a ground, power and signal. In almost all cases the middle wire is the signal wire. This wire will be ran to pin 25 or pin S1 on the relay board. 
Next is the ground wire. This wire will most likely be brown/white or just brown. You want to find a good grounding point for this wire. The last of the hall wires is the power wire. This wire should be red/black. The power wire will be ran to pin 24 or the TACH pin on the relay board. Finally its time for the coil wire. 
All you need to do is run a wire from pin 36 or S5 (relay board) to the negative side of the coil. This wire is a pulsed ground and will tell your coil when to fire. That's pretty much it guys. You've just moded your v3 board to control spark. If anyone wants to add to this or ask any questions please feel free. 

















-Chris

_Modified by Captain16vGTI at 1:19 AM 5-12-2006_


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## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (Captain16vGTI)*

first off, don't use a digital multimeter on a hall sender, you can blow the wires out inside due to the draw, you're supposed to use an led... 
If you want to use an led, i believe the bentley says "+ of led to battery + terminal.... - to hall signal wire (ensure you have a 330 ohm resistor on the led + wire....) it should illuminate with key off ...turn off with key on and blink with engine turning








you shuold have a pullup wire, prolly 1k from signal to power (pref from the s12 (12v) port on the board under the igbt stuff if you have the bottom of the pcb facing you with the db37 on the left...
you should get RPM in megatune , if you don't do not worry about your VB what so ever, infact perhaps disconnect it .... also make sure that XG1 and XG2 are shorted so the stim works.. if you get rpm on the stim then your ms is fine... if you do not have rpm in the car with the hall connected you have to replace your hall , wiring or perhaps check for a pullup resisistor... i've never had issues with my hall running 12v, you could run a 5v supply from the proto board or 5L leg of the voltage regulator circuit..
ensure you use the center pin if thats the green with white stripe... (the dizzy hall plug should have + - and a circle i think which is the center terminal) 
as long as you have rpm in megatune THEN proceed to spark troubleshooting...


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## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (mxman)*

btw, the 60-2 wheel adds a lot of torque runs better overall and starts easier... even with the ecu synch out 40 degrees the car idled smooth chugging like a steam engine at 350 rpm LOL ... 
ms2e is kind of buggy so far but i'll get it going soon enough, toodles!


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## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (mxman)*

Thanx. A guy from the audiworld forums helped me. I got the hall sender working yesterday. I ordered another one from Newark last night. Thanx though http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

Anyone know what the hell this means?! I can't get my laptop to connect up


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (H8SV8S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *H8SV8S* »_Anyone know what the hell this means?! I can't get my laptop to connect up

























First you need to learn how to use the "Print Screen" button on your keyboard.
Second, You need to put the corresponding INI file that came with your new firmware version into the proper Megatune folder. I can't remember off the top of my head what folder to put it in but it should be in the documentation that came with the new firmware. Hope this helps.
-Chris


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Captain16vGTI)*

It should be in: C:\Program Files\MegaSquirt\MegaTune2.25\mtCfg if you used the defaults. You need to have it in there and use MT Configurator to activate the proper .ini file.


----------



## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

Thanks for the tips! I am useless with anything ECU-related. How exactly do i use the MT Config. to activate the file?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (H8SV8S)*

Run MT Configurator, click on the .ini version you want (such as msns-extra.ini.029y3 etc) and then go to File (I think it's in a dropdown) then Activate.


----------



## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

Cheers - just changed software and its all good now


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (H8SV8S)*

pimpin, glad you got some help and got it running... 
same for you h8









paul you crazy mofo... spring is comin here bro


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (mxman)*

Don't I know it, just got the Mk3 back up and running. Gotta bust butt to get the MS on it once the E70 turns back to E85


----------



## 20thAEGti1009 (Jan 28, 2005)

i am getting ready to install ms1 in my 84 gti and i am curious as to what i should do about ignition. Does cis have the same type of ignition module like cis-e? and if it does can i use that to run the 16v or will i have to do something different to get spark?


----------



## lostwabbit (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: (20thAEGti1009)*

if you are building the ms unit yourself, there is a mod that you can do to make it work. but the easiest is to just take it from the tach signal that comes off the ignition module.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (lostwabbit)*

http://www.msextra.com/manuals...x.htm
Everything you need to know is there, somewhere!


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

where did you get your fuel lines and pump for that paul?


----------



## fastmonkeywheels (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

This is a great thread, but I'm having trouble finding the stock timing table that was mentioned. Can someone direct me to it please?
I'm finishing up an MS install on my friend's 16v Cabbie. So far everything has been flawless. We're going to start it up for the first time tonight and it would be nice to have some tables to start from. I got the VE table from the first page but having the timing would be super nice.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (fastmonkeywheels)*

I'll try and post up the one from the ABF I tuned to give you guys a better starting point.


----------



## volkstypeone (Jan 2, 2006)

dumb question, but where is every1 grounding all of there stuff to? sensors.. and stuff


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (fastmonkeywheels)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastmonkeywheels* »_This is a great thread, but I'm having trouble finding the stock timing table that was mentioned. Can someone direct me to it please?


Heres the supposed stock timing map...








And I spent a few hours converting it using excel and calculating averages etc...


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (L33t A2)*

I've had good luck with that +5-6deg. on both stock 16v's and MS'd ones.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (need_a_VR6)*

welp, the 60-2 wheel is installed, sure makes things smooth, even with the crappy stock distributor and old worn out plugs , plug wires etc.. hoping to get some wasted spark or cop soon.. if i can get ms2extra up and going, it's a bit trickier to install since they've done away with trigger offset, they want you to set it perfectly with the teeth on your wheel.. hopefully i have luck with that, lol.. it'd be nice if they kept it since it was helpful for people that didn't have an OEM missing tooth wheel and didn't / can't line up the sensor perfectly..
owel!







car feels like a freight train accelerating now, can't wait for summer


----------



## volkstypeone (Jan 2, 2006)

do u really need to wiring megasquirt to fuel pump relay?? why can u just leave it be. 
and just run a main relay and idle boost relay to megasquirt?


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (volkstypeone)*

depends on the car, mk1 switch fuel pump on by ignition, i think so do ce1 mk2. ce2 mk2 and mk3 switch the fuel pump on with a ground wire from ecu so you need to tie it into MS.


----------



## volkstypeone (Jan 2, 2006)

ok i thought so.
another question. is people with mk1 16v's
the Idle boost valve.








this is what most people are running correct?
leaving the stock wiring in place. 
or do u tie it into ms. 



_Modified by volkstypeone at 7:44 PM 3-5-2008_


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (volkstypeone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *volkstypeone* »_ok i thought so.
another question. is people with mk1 16v's
the Idle boost valve.








this is what most people are running correct?
leaving the stock wiring in place. 
or do u tie it into ms. 

_Modified by volkstypeone at 7:44 PM 3-5-2008_

Its called a Auxiliary Air Regulator
I used one on my 16v Rabbit when I did my MS install. IIRC I Just fed a ground to the - side and a switched 12v to the + side. It will slowly start to close once the coil inside starts to heat up. By the time it is fully closed the engine should be warm enough to idle by its self. I did this quite some time ago but I think that sounds about right. Hope this helps.
-Chris



_Modified by Wishy Washy at 8:56 PM 3-5-2008_


----------



## volkstypeone (Jan 2, 2006)

yes it does. thanks Chris


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (volkstypeone)*

def wire in the MS for the fuel pump and the idle valve and get rid of the stock wiring. if nothing else you are replacing 20+ y/o connections an wires and i have found it to be more reliable personally


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (volkstypeone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *volkstypeone* »_yes it does. thanks Chris

You're very welcome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (Wishy Washy)*

My car is setup using alpha-n. When I go to stop and the rpm drops from a higher rpm, the car dies most of the time. But if I baby the idle down slowly, it doesn't die. If I let the car idle, it starts to bounce until it dies. Will switching over to speed density help this, since it's based off of MAP and therefor the brake booster wouldn't affect it as much?
If so, is switching to speed density going to require me to basicly start from scratch? Or will it be easy? Thanks.


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (VTEC_EATER_16V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VTEC_EATER_16V* »_My car is setup using alpha-n. When I go to stop and the rpm drops from a higher rpm, the car dies most of the time. But if I baby the idle down slowly, it doesn't die. If I let the car idle, it starts to bounce until it dies. Will switching over to speed density help this, since it's based off of MAP and therefor the brake booster wouldn't affect it as much?
If so, is switching to speed density going to require me to basicly start from scratch? Or will it be easy? Thanks.

I could be wrong but unless you're running ITB's you should be using map anyway. Alpha-N is primarily used when there is a lack of sufficient manifold vacuum to properly use a map system. Are you running ITB's ??
-Chris


_Modified by Wishy Washy at 11:32 AM 3-8-2008_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Wishy Washy)*

You can use alpha-n on a manifold car, sometimes it makes them easier to tune.
Most of your problem is the lack of an idle valve of some sort, or a soft throttle stop (like the OBD1 VR6's dashpot). Also look at your under idle timing value, it should be a few deg higher then at idle, it'll help kick it back up if it tries to stall.


----------



## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_You can use alpha-n on a manifold car, sometimes it makes them easier to tune.


You definitely can but in most cases its because of unstable manifold vacuum (lumpy cam). I have zero experience with Alpha-N but I've been told numerous times that its extremely difficult to tune. 


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Also look at your under idle timing value, it should be a few deg higher then at idle, it'll help kick it back up if it tries to stall. 

I would also suggest doing this. It will help out quite a bit. 
-Chris


_Modified by Wishy Washy at 6:31 PM 3-8-2008_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Wishy Washy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wishy Washy* »_I have zero experience with Alpha-N but I've been told numerous times that its extremely difficult to tune. 

Alpha-N is as easy to tune as speed density, it's just the cars that usually run alpha-n are pains in the rear anyway. It's like saying that you think football is hard after playing an NFL team your first time out.


----------



## VTEC_EATER_16V (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

I have an air valve from my 16v Scirocco, but it's 3 wire i think.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (VTEC_EATER_16V)*

The ABA and VR6 2 wire ones are much easier to use with MS, I've never personally seen a 3 wire PWM idle install work correctly.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (volkstypeone)*

run a wire with a spade lug to the wire going to the fuel pump out back
make sure you have a fuse in that line though incase it shorts!

btw vtec eater, what are you running for AFR at idle? 13:1 helped my dipping at idle another thing to watch though is your end pulsewidth... or it may get so rich that it blows out the spark so to speak...







if you also have a bin at say 12 kpa or something when the throttle slams shut (Find your lowest kpa value when the throttle slams shut) and use that for a loadsite... then lean the hell out of that loadsite and sometimes that will help immensly..
another thing that will affect your idle will be a lot of ignition advance right around idle, say if you have 25 degrees at idle then 30 at 1200 then 35 at 1500 rpm the engine transitions very fast and won't be able to recover, some things to think about! BTW paul is right, you want around 10 degrees higher for your 500 rpm value in your ignition table than at idle... my car runs great with the stock 6 degrees at idle but i'm stock cams and manifold.... 28-38 kpa idle depending on the temperature of the motor.







I've been able to pull 23 kpa idling but it would never warm up, lots of advance = no heat too little advance = hot .. hope that helps!

_Modified by mxman at 11:03 PM 3-10-2008_


_Modified by mxman at 11:06 PM 3-10-2008_


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*

i just wired in a summit ignition. i am still using the bosch icm - but i dont think i need it since the new ignition should be handling that. 
i think using the bosch module is adversely affecting the setup. i cannot run the car with spark inverted like the manual says - and i think thats why. any input?


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

your icm is probably just inverting the signal itself...







that's all.. basically your spark works or it doesn't most times if the signal is inverted or not ;D 
remember u3? the optoisolator inverts the signal before it hits the processor..


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (mxman)*

yea thats apparently all its doing, so thats not the reason my tach wont work (underlying issue behind the previous question). still working on it!


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_ I've never personally seen a 3 wire PWM idle install work correctly.

me either. pat had setup a buddys ecu for it and was gonna help test and figure out how to make it work. well you can guess what happened there...


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk2dubbin* »_
i think using the bosch module is adversely affecting the setup. i cannot run the car with spark inverted like the manual says - and i think thats why. any input?

use a mallory 6a spark box, it will make the spark work about 100x better http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (VWralley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWralley* »_use a mallory 6a spark box, it will make the spark work about 100x better http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

i just wired in the summit box last week - which is a repackaged mallory 6A. i removed the bosch icm tonight and am triggering the ignition directly from the ecu now with spark inverted and 50% duty cycle like the manual says. sems to idle and rev nicely - still no dash tach. tried the 8910 tach adapter and the car wouldnt even start; removed it and it fired right back up.
tested the voltage between the 12v ignition supply to the 6A, and the tach output from the 6A and am getting an almost constant 12.06v. shouldnt the tach be seeing a 12v square wave (i was thinking that showed up as about ~5v on a multimeter)?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

Two easy checks to see if it's doing something, check for AC voltage, check for frequency. The MK3 tachs want a 5v square wave to work properly.


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Two easy checks to see if it's doing something, check for AC voltage, check for frequency. The MK3 tachs want a 5v square wave to work properly. 

ill check that. ive got a mk2, so i think it takes a high voltage ~120v spike to the tach. i think an msd 8920 will give me that.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

Yep, that tach wants the voltage spike. There's some good info on msextra about using a relay coil to emulate that with a normal square wave tach driver.


----------



## vento3883 (Nov 2, 2002)

I haven't started my MS project for my MkI 16v, but I'm glad I found this page. This will help me out a TON! Can't wait to get rid of CIS


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

bump from the dead


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (hasnfefr)*

can't you pull square waves from the vr op amp? it's a square wave..going to 5v going into the processor. Food for thought


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (vento3883)*

ttt


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

raise the roof!


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

pow!


----------



## dogger (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (hasnfefr)*

Wow what a great find this thread is. I am about to install a 2.0l 16v turbo into my '90 Corrado with a Megasquirt. Hopefully with the help of this thread it will go smoothly!


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (dogger)*

all of you 16v guys should just buy 034's kit and put 93+ aba management on your cars haha


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

ding


----------



## kda33 (Jan 27, 2005)

adding to the watched topics


----------



## bikerjoedub (Nov 24, 2002)

*Re: (kda33)*

I have question about the location of my IAT sensor and MAP sensor fitting. Should the IAT be located on the intake manifold or somewhere else? Also should the MAP sensor fitting be on the intake manifold or should it be located before the throttle body? ALso this is a supercharged motor. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (bikerjoedub)*

IAT needs to be after any intercooler you have, other then that it's fair game. MAP sensor line should be after the throttle body.


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Hey everyone!! I finally got my Audi 90 running last week. In all my adventures of moving the megasquirt in and out of the car I had forgotten to put the map line back in the megasquirt. I think that was why I would rev the engine and it would almost die. Anyways... I had the car running. I messed with some settings, which included turning off the gamma for the injectors. So, I had to turn it off because I suspected it was running out of gas. I turned the car off. Now the injectors wont fire. I've check everything I could think of. Then I whipped out the multimeter and found that Megasquirt isn't sending a negative signal to the injectors. The megasquirt's LED's are lighting up, and MSnE on my laptop says that its firing the injectors. Can anyone shed some light on this?? Bad flyback circuit?? Do I need to replace my megasquirt?? Got all excited and now.... Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

Going across the injector plug you should see 0v when sitting with key on, and pulsing 12v while cranking. If you read 12v all the time the flyback is dead (fires the injectors all the time). Make sure to check inj+ voltage as well.


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Yea, thats what I thought. With the multimeter, I put the positive side on the posi of the battery and the negative on the neg side of the plug. I'm not getting any negative signal from the megasquirt. I have the + side of the inj plugs directly connected to the battery with an inline fuse. Do I just replace the flyback circuit componets?


_Modified by thepkilla at 2:01 PM 5-20-2008_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

I would try and test it out of the car to see if it can even switch an LED first and if it's full on or full off. I've never seen one fail to pullup voltage (+12) before. This a V2.2 or V3?


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

V. 3 pcb. I've got it modded to control spark.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

You have the additional high current flyback circuit installed?


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Are you talking about the Ignition driver circuit? If so, then Yes.


_Modified by thepkilla at 11:14 AM 5-21-2008_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

No, in the V3 build instructions you have the option to install or not install additional high current flyback components. If the board is nearly full populated you probably have them.


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

You must be talking about the PWM flyback circuit. Yes, I did install that.


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

I installed that thinking it was for my stock bosch intake valve. Now knowing it was for my injectors. LOL. I'm running high impedence 30lb injectors I bought from 034 motorsports. I checked that the injectors werent blown. They are good. Just no negative signal from the megasquirt. If I get some time tonight, I'll check it on my stim.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

Yeah check it out on the stim first. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

I've gotta do a bit of resoldering to my stim tonight. I smashed the NPN transistor and replaced it with something kinda like it, but It hasn't ever worked correctly. Hopefully this new one will. I'll let ya'll know if it works or not.
Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

I got the stim running today. No injector lights at all!! Its really weird though. The megatune on my laptop says that the injectors are pulsing. Still, no negative signal at all!! Anyone know what could be causing this??


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

I would just double check all the injector components are installed correctly, especially the diodes. After that it sounds like you have a bad component somewhere.


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Has anyone ever herd of getting feedback from the battery that damages any componets in the megasquirt?


----------



## kda33 (Jan 27, 2005)

Wanted to put this in the watch topics lots of good info here.


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

I got my MSNS running the other day!! Found out that having a battery charger on while starting will cause weird voltage spikes that damaged my internal componets. Luckily, I only had to replace 3 componets. Two diodes, and the IC for my injectors.
Anyways, I have a question. When the engine is cold, the car idles at 700-800 RPMs. When it warms up the idle drops below 300 RPM. I have to hold the accelerator pedal so it doesn't die. Anyone know why?
Any help would be appreciated,
Josh


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (thepkilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thepkilla* »_Has anyone ever herd of getting feedback from the battery that damages any componets in the megasquirt?

isolating the alternator and the ecu on the same side of a battery kill switch will toast the ecu if the kill switch is flipped while the car is running at higher rpms and the charging system is working


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Is there any way to fix that? Maybe a inline fuse to the megasquirt?


----------



## kda33 (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

Not to sound like I know anything, but you really should be running an in line fuse anyways.


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (kda33)*

Obviously, it should be already ran through the fuse box. Since I'm using the connnections from the previous ecu. Still, it did blow my injector componets. Seems kinda odd though.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

I've had battery chargers kill stock ecu's if you hook them up to 'battery start' with the key on. I don't see the MS being any different. You need to make sure your electronics are powered down before hitting them with the high current.


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

definitely. Thanx for the info. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

so i'm running ms2e and a 60-2 setup from issam abed... 034 guy... it's working pretty well, i had to load the code with my pc then use the laptop to tune it, i lost my o2 input i'm going to have to go back to b+g or reflash the ecu yet again... no sure why it corrupts oh well...








the overrun kicks ass...







saves a lot of fuel..


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

ttt


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (hasnfefr)*

i'll start making some progress on this project now that I've found a source for this VAG 60-2 setup to put on my 9A block....








pic courtesy of GintsK


----------



## JonnyPhenomenon (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (OhioBenz)*

hey OhioBenz. I am dying to know where you got that set. How much did everything cost you and where did you get it?








please respond


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

im sent


----------



## JonnyPhenomenon (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

IM responded! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I want to be the first person you IM when you get this worked out. count me in for one of these. thanks for the great info bro!


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (JonnyPhenomenon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JonnyPhenomenon* »_IM responded! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I want to be the first person you IM when you get this worked out. count me in for one of these. thanks for the great info bro!

i'll be too busy doing my "happy dance" to IM anybody LOL
but seriously, for those interested I will def be in touch... 
hopefully i can get it worked out when the $USD$ is a bit stronger so the exchange rate wont be so bad


----------



## JonnyPhenomenon (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

I dont care about group rates or low american dollars. if this works I want one.


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (JonnyPhenomenon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JonnyPhenomenon* »_I dont care about group rates or low american dollars. if this works I want one. 

if i didnt feel that way myself i would not have spent this much time trying to find a source....
the reason "others" haven pursued it is cos theres no room to make profits on "dealer only" parts LOL... so its much better to promote aftermarket setups....


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

i will be posting pix of the install as i get all the parts in - and make mods.. on this thread - where i first found out about it: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3516017


----------



## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

others have done this install with MS and VEMS and it works...


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

ABF msq people have been bugging me for.. 
http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=22466


----------



## adrian8426 (Dec 30, 2007)

Few questions:
I have a MSnS-E with MS1 & the 2.2 board I've made the modification to the board to run spark as midnight's diagram to use the ICM. It's currently running only fuel in a 91 passat 16v and spark is being run by the motronic (annoying).
1.) Can I run the Motronic (Joint to the coil) type ICM and what are the connections I've got to make? 
2. Can I take the computer out even if it's an automatic transmission car? (is the TCM part of the Motronic computer or is it joined at the wiring).
3. What cables should I leave in the engine bay harness that are necessary?

Thanks.


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (adrian8426)*

Why dont you just use MS to run the spark? It would make your install so much easier. At least after you figure out how to. LOL. I dont think anyone has run MS on a 88 audi 90. What a big hassle it has been







. I got mine running about 2 months ago. Just waiting on the alternator now. LOL. Stupid part to be waiting for.


----------



## adrian8426 (Dec 30, 2007)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

I am going to run spark, that is why I modified the MS to run it, but now I have to buy the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and I was wondering if I could use the 3-pin one on the Motronic's Coil which is also an ICM but it doesn't have the 7 pin configuration the other one has. That is why I am seeking to see if anyone's done it and how should it be wired since I don't want to mess my MS and it would defenately look cleaner than attaching a Bosch ICM to the car. .


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (adrian8426)*

Yes, I have. And you can do it. Here's what I did: I disconnected the 3 pin off the coil and did a direct connection. I connected the positive end of the coil to an ignition switched point. Then I connected the negative to the neg. lead to the MS. Simple, yet very effective. I actually used MS's ICM that was built in.


_Modified by thepkilla at 12:07 PM 8-7-2008_


----------



## adrian8426 (Dec 30, 2007)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

That's the point, I don't have an ICM unless I buy it and jumper it into my board because I have the 2.2. I was looking to see if I could use the ICM in the coil. Thanks anyways.


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (adrian8426)*

I have herd of people using the stock motronic control unit for just spark. Thats originally what I was goin to do, but it became too much of a hassle. I spent the few extra bucks to get the v 2.3 board. By the way there isnt a ICM in the coil. That 3 pin unit your talking about is just an ampliflier for the coil.


----------



## adrian8426 (Dec 30, 2007)

*Re: (thepkilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thepkilla* »_I have herd of people using the stock motronic control unit for just spark. Thats originally what I was goin to do, but it became too much of a hassle. I spent the few extra bucks to get the v 2.3 board. By the way there isnt a ICM in the coil. That 3 pin unit your talking about is just an ampliflier for the coil.

Thanks for clearing that up, a mechanic told me that was an integrated ICM in the coil... 
I am currently using the motronic unit for just spark but it's a hassle since the fuel map doesn't vary accordingly to the spark when it retards or advances due to the knock sensors and other factors. It's more of a pain than an advantage since sometimes the fuel map runs perfectly and other times it just sucks big time.


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (adrian8426)*

Hey, no problem. Thats why I spent a bit more and got the IC for MS. Trust me once you get it all set up, it just makes your life so much easier.


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

Speaking of which. Can anyone shed some light onto this issue? First, my setup: 88 Audi 90 non-Q, MSnS V2.3 board, 30lb injectors from 034, stock distributor, stock spark plugs, positive lead to ignition switched source, and negative lead to MS pin 35 I believe. Now, for the issue. When I want to start the car, I have to run through about 20 minutes of: turning the car over, then adjusting the distributor etc etc...
Once I get the car started, it runs really wierd. IE... It runs like a spark plug isnt firing. In my experience, I have connected the spark plug wires backward on another vehicle and it sounded similar. So, I checked with an induction gun to make sure I was getting spark on each plug from the dizzy. Confirmed. I believe that the timing is off, but I find that sweet spot where it runs the best. I'm not totally sure that the crank and dizzy are just on the wrong cycle. Or is something totally off in the settings?
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!


----------



## JonnyPhenomenon (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

dont know if its related, but it could be running way too lean.
I know when I start up my car and dont let it warm up, the wideband o2 sensor makes the car run incredibly lean until it heats up. 30 seconds or so.


----------



## thepkilla (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: (JonnyPhenomenon)*

Here's a stupid question. What if the O2 sensor isnt reading at all within the MSnS program. I mean, obvously it would be running really rich? Could that be the problem. I have just been pushing that expensive thing aside for awhile.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (thepkilla)*

Turn your o2 correct % to 0 and see if it changes things.
You can use the Motronic 3 pin igniter with MS, just hook the center pin up to your MS spark output.


----------



## grf (Oct 16, 2007)

I have a question regarding running an ms with the stock cis-e ignition box.
The loom would be of an PL Engine.
I dont know how it is done exactly, do I just leave the ignition box in there and just remove the injection computer with all its plugs?
I have the plan to modify the original wiring loom so that only the ignition stuff is left.
Is that possible? The wiring diagram shows three direct connections to the injection box and I don't know if i can simply remove them.


----------



## adrian8426 (Dec 30, 2007)

*Re: (grf)*

You have to take out everything having to do with the spark except for the ICM (ignition control module), the coil, and the hall sender in the distributor. Leave and cut the ICM's, and hall sender pluegs with a some of the wiring so that it will be easier to hook up and end up cleaner. Just crimp the wires that the MS diagram describes (with heat shrink tubing for a watertight fit) to their respective places. Anything that is ground can go to a good ground on the block or the firewall.


----------



## adrian8426 (Dec 30, 2007)

Up to not let die


----------



## 1.8T16vhead (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: (adrian8426)*

how do I set MS V3.0 for low z injectors ?
please help
thanx


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (1.8T16vhead)*

If it's complete with all the parts it's ready to go, just set up the PWM limits like the manual says.


----------



## mslifer12 (Aug 24, 2007)

what is the average price of a basic complete setup?


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

ttt


----------



## VW_NUT (Mar 16, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
You can use the Motronic 3 pin igniter with MS, just hook the center pin up to your MS spark output.

If you use the motronic igniter, do you still need to use the bosch 139 module, or use the bip 373 coil driver? 
To those on here using single coil set ups for boost how is it holding up at 10psi +? I haven't seen any reason yet to bother with a wasted spark system. 
Anyone using the MSII yet? I see most people using MSI Extra. I assume this is because of cost and the MSI has most of the features people need.


_Modified by VW_NUT at 12:26 PM 10-28-2008_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (VW_NUT)*

If you use the igniter on the VW coil, you don't need the BIP or Bosch 7 pin module. You do need to enable dwell control with the 3 pin though.
Single coil is good for BIG power, there are people well over 400whp with stock ignitions.
I've only built one MS2 system. The 'extra' code for MS2 isn't as stable, an the MS1 version in both regular and hi-res versions are plenty for most.


----------



## VW_NUT (Mar 16, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Thanks!! 400hp is more than I'll be making. Does it take long to find the dwell period or is it pretty obvious?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (VW_NUT)*

Cranking 6ms, running 3.6ms, min .1ms. Done.







The real way you need a scope.


----------



## mxman (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

so yea, the INA 034 motorsport 60-2 kit is alright but hte bracket doesn't like extremes of cold, my bracket shrank in cold weather and the thing like self clearenced it self ..jesus be careful with this thing


----------



## Mange3586 (Feb 17, 2004)

Ok so im sure its in here but i only looked through 26 of the 48 pages... But i burnt out two vb921's with the spark settings set to no for inverted or not. Im using valve cover gaskets tables. So im not sure whats going on. I have MS1 3.57 with 029q firmware and direct coil ignition. Any ideas?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Mange3586)*

029q is junk, stop using it, the code is compiled with a bunch of junk in the IAT/CLT correction tables. Upgrade to 029y4.
Most people with VW's use the Bosch ICM and have dwell set to fixed duty. For the VB921 you need to have dwell control enabled with 6ms cranking 3.2ms running, and .1ms min discharge.


----------



## Mange3586 (Feb 17, 2004)

How do i upgrade? I had been using 029y4 with the 029q and it gave the table coruption error upon startup. I have to change the firmware on the ecu itself right? I just ordered two of the new bosch replacement ICM's from diyautotune. They should be arriving soon. They will be better? I have my dwell set to 50% duty cycle right now. Fixed duty i believe


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Mange3586)*

What you need to do is create a new msq for the 029y4 much stuff has changed. You can export your VE tables from 029q but they *will* need retuning. All the other stuff you'll have to enter in by hand. Most of the time I just set 029y4 to active and open an older msq. It'll give errors just go through the setup and change what doesn't look right, sometimes it's not a TON of stuff. 
You can't run fixed duty with the VB921s attached directly to a coil, they will fry. The new Bosch BIP modules that you'll get from DIY are better, but you still can't run fixed duty. Turn dwell control on with the settings I posted and it'll solve your problem.


----------



## Mange3586 (Feb 17, 2004)

Alright sounds good. Thanks a lot... i have two new ICM's so theres room for error haha.


----------



## Mange3586 (Feb 17, 2004)

One more question... When you run the spark regular instead of inverted do you have to ground the shielding for the hall wire. No. 24


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Mange3586)*

With a hall you don't need a shield, only a VR sensor.


----------



## Mange3586 (Feb 17, 2004)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Outstanding. New ICM's are waiting at my house for me. I set up everything i needed to last night with the stim. Hopefully it is right because i was in a turkey induced coma. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BastardDuck (Dec 10, 2006)

I have a Bosch ICM from an Audi...
PN: 211 905 351 B which cross references to 0 227 100 103
Will this work in place of the 124 module or should I take the time to find the proper module...


----------



## Mange3586 (Feb 17, 2004)

The 330o resistor i got is for the jumper between the jp1 3rd pin position and the 5v power on the board I already did right?


----------



## BastardDuck (Dec 10, 2006)

I'm having a bit of trouble with spark on my MS-II 16v...I made the board modifications outlined on DIYautotune.com for using the Bosch 139 module...I am using the CIS-E amplifier for spark and using dwell control on MS...
I have plenty of fuel but no spark, the coil is getting hot, a bit too hot for my liking and I have no spark out...
My maxx dwell is set at 3.0ms but it is spiking at almost 9ms on the gauge of Megatune; it just doesnt seem to want to make spark...
Any help would be appreciated
Edit: I am getting a good clean RPM sig and every sensor is reporting proper values


_Modified by BastardDuck at 1:42 PM 12-5-2008_


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## Mange3586 (Feb 17, 2004)

Im having spark problems also... 1 and 3 are hot as hell 3 is weak after a few cranks and 4 is non exhistant. Car ran awesome with the settings for spark inverted set to yes and firing in basic settings set to even fire. ALso what should the teeth be set to for the tooth decoder? where you can set the second trigger and rising edge or falling edge and missing teeth


----------



## BastardDuck (Dec 10, 2006)

Mine finally runs and runs well!!!! Wohooo!!!!!


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

ttt


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

ttt


----------



## rcortez13 (Nov 21, 2005)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (hasnfefr)*

ttt
Can't let this thread disappear, I should be getting my ECU soon. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (rcortez13)*

From the dead bump!


----------



## luckie8 (Jul 21, 2007)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (hasnfefr)*

so which one should I get for my cis-e 16vT mk2? I would like to have full ignition spark control and eventually will be using wastespark setup, just not right away yet. MS1 v3 or MSII? is it worth the extra 80 bucks?










_Modified by luckie8 at 11:28 PM 5-1-2009_


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## raapulis (Apr 30, 2009)

heellooo, couls some one tell me right way to install this fantastic oil seal. question is about timing points. engine is on timing, but wich ir rigt way for oil seal


----------



## T3Bunny (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (raapulis)*

Paul your dah man! If your watching this, hit me up!


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## MidnightunersVaUS (Aug 29, 2008)

Hey guys i have a question for you guys i know its stupid but i have Cis-e Jetronic i have had megasquirt on the car for a while and today i decided to pull the stock computer ok i cut the wire's to it i have a few wires comeing from the ign mod and one from the knock box and one comeing from the alt anyone tell me what all those wires are and do they need to be hooked up any thing or a wireing diagram would be nice either or. Thanks


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightunersVaUS)*

Are you running spark as well right now, or fuel only?


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## MidnightunersVaUS (Aug 29, 2008)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (need_a_VR6)*

im sorry i should have put that in its fuel only but i want to keep the ign stock if i can maybe one day i will convert it over and run spark... thanks


----------



## fightinphilsphan (Aug 23, 2008)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (MidnightunersVaUS)*

bump
this thread should not be in the archives imo.


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## VR6SHOTS (Jul 9, 2004)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (fightinphilsphan)*

i read this whole thing. understood nothing.
but feel smarter already


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

anyone got any experience with the 2.57 pcb?
me and a friend of mine are struggling to get spark and rpm readout on his
tried everthing we have read on the megamanual, still no luck
anyone know for sure how to wire up vw hall sensor and direct coil fire? (have installed the BIP module)
with my MS2 V3.57 we got rpm readout, but no spark


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## diceman469 (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

I've been trolling for awhile, I thought I'd post here to get more insight. Car runs good, but some CC never hurt.
Setup is an ABA 16VT with a T3/T4 .63 hotside and 57 compressor. 52lb injectors, good enough intercooler and 3" stainless all the way back.
The tables:
























Any possible improvements? Car seems to stay +/- 3% on EGO control so the bins are pretty spot on. Can I add more timing? Am I as far as I can get? Car is boosting to 200KPA at the moment.


_Modified by diceman469 at 11:45 PM 8-25-2009_


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## 8716v (Sep 10, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

good to keep this up at the top


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

ttt


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

bumparoo!


----------



## CorsaCruiser (Nov 15, 2006)

*Re: The Megasquirt from CIS-E and Motronic Official Post! (GTIMan82)*

Awesome topic !
Here's my KR, going to run Weber 40's and EDIS(with MJLJ):
















I made the bracket, sensor is from a euro Ford Fiesta/Escort, and the trigger wheel came from ebay:
http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/bammotorsport/
Hole plugged:


















_Modified by CorsaCruiser at 2:26 PM 3-2-2010_


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## volks25 (Dec 14, 2001)

This thing not stickied yet?? Are there still digi 1/2 users out there








Got my MS1 setup running last night. Many thanks to ValveCoverGasket for posting the screen shots on p. 27. I think my problem was spark inverted was set to Yes, it's now at No and fired up right away.
Many thanks to Paul as well. He help me with the basic mods I did with MS1 and injector wiring questions.
I noticed in this thread many are having cold start problems... I can't get mine to idle for the first 10 seconds after start (hold pedal down). Any black magic I could do? I don't have an idle valve, just the passat auto TB with the adjustment screw.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Idle valve is the magic key







.
Failing that, crank the ignition timing up to 15+ when it's cold, it'll help.
Digi1Y00000000000!


----------



## Rado.16vT (May 25, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

is there differences in abf to 9a/kr distributors/hall senders?
Are you guys using the cam hall sensor as a secondary trigger to run sequential fueling? 
If so do you use the 4 tooth dizzy stock wheel?
What is the pin out of the hall sensor wires?
thanks


----------



## mrtn (Mar 18, 2010)

Hello,
Can anyone please explain what p/n to use for the TPS? I understood that it should come off a Passat 16V A/T, but is it possible to modify a stock non TPS throttle valve with just the switch of the A/T? or do I need a complete valve? A passat 16V A/T is pretty rare in my area...
Thanks x 1000!


----------



## volks25 (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (mrtn)*

you can use TPS from most car (as far as I know)... You need to adapt it anyways (even the passat one)


----------



## Mouth (Jun 24, 2009)

*Installer needed*

Good day people, 
I have a buddy with a 16v & ITB's setup.. We need to get this car up and running with this stand alone. We are in need of the standalone and the installer. We are located in new jersey and are wiling to travel within reasonable distance to get the job done.. Please if you or anyone you no can get this done please get back to me ASAP.. 
Thank you in advance 
Danny aka Mouth 
Vr6danny @aim.com


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## Richago (Oct 5, 2002)

1990 VW Passat 16v, MS2 v3.57 MSnS extra 2.10d, distributer/hall directly driving a single coil 

The ignition input is still a little uncertain to me - I understand that there are lots of ways to make it work, but that doesn't really make me feel better. 

My hall sensor is an open collector. With a 12v pull-up on it's output, it gives me a nice going-high signal, lines up with the rotor with a measured trigger angle of 90deg. (apparently this is *supposed* to be about 60 on my engine?) Rather than installing the resistor in the harness I installed it internally, and since it seemed silly to go to 12v and then back down, I went from the 5v supply pads to pin 24 and jumpered D1 - figured I would try that and then jumper D2 if needed. And now my Megastim (v2.21) tach input doesn't work? Then I realized that R57 is sitting there, a perfectly designed spot for this, so I am installing the pull-up resistor there, but I don't see that making the stim work. 

What is "trigger return" vs. "basic trigger?" I've been looking...and looking...and looking, and still don't know what this means? And, if I understand correctly, the "angle between main and return" is the duration of the low/ground output? 

Thanks to all!


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

not often this thread is being used anymore.. thats not good..

anyhow. just need some info

me and a friend of mine is trying to get an audi 90 with an inline 5 cyl to run nicely. (10v turbo)

this is essential the same as any other vag engines, we are using the BIP module, and direct coil control, the car starts, and run. but poorly

so my question is. doubt that i'll get some good answers, but i'm trying


what are the constants we need?

1 or 2 squirts pr cycle?
trigger rise, og trigger return?

running stock distributor and coil. clean ignition signal


and very unsure on HOW to set the timing correctly. we can't seem to get anywhere. and are soon one year into the tuing :s


and about dwell. what should that be? 

time after spark?
fixed? etc

running MSII v3.57 with MS2 extra code


I'm crossing my fingers for any good answers. we are soon about to give up


----------



## Richago (Oct 5, 2002)

Well, I just got mine running. I still don't 'get' everything (can't figure out how to data log), but I think I can answer a few of these! I'm actually running the same code and same computer, too!

Because you have an odd number of cylinders, you can run 1 or 5 squirts per cycle, simultaneous only. "You want this to be set so that your idle pulse width is no less than 2.0 ms, if possible, and your Req_Fuel is less than 12-15 milliseconds, but more than 8 milliseconds. These values allow proper tuning of the idle mixture while maintaining the ability to apply enrichments (acceleration, warm-up, etc.) under full throttle. This is the total injector events that you wish to occur for every engine cycle (360 degrees for two stroke engines and 720° for four strokes)."

With the hall sensor I believe you can do either. Basically, it's the difference between the rising edge and falling edge of the hall signal output. Once the car is running, setting the timing "correctly" is easy - you just verify that the number MS shows is the actual number you see with a timing light, and adjust it by either changing the trigger offset or adjusting the distributor.

I have max dwell at 3ms, max spark at 1.5, and cranking dwell at 6. This is most important at high rpm where, if there isn't enough time for both, it will shorten both based on this ratio.

And, in case you haven't been using it, the MSextra site is way more helpful than the regular one: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

we have it set up to run 1 squirt pr.cycle now. and simultaneous. our main problem is that the car stutters like crazy when under load. and don't get much boost. altho its set to about 1bar atm

i've got a vid, showing the idle, which is pretty good. and it will rev "good" enough when under no load

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj0GOelw7gU

and engine (don't mind the owners dog. or the "fox" as we call her  )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KLZsX0BmIU


----------



## Richago (Oct 5, 2002)

The revving seemed a little sluggish to me - maybe give it some more ignition advance? Have you checked the timing with an adjustable timing light yet? Do that first. And, do you have a wideband O2 sensor?


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

he has set it with a standard timing light, goign to adjust it with a good adjustable timinglight this weekend

we got an LC-1 on there, but the controller suddenly stopped working, but a new one is on the way

its a little sluggish yes.  but idle is great. and its even more "sluggish" when you are accelerating with load. i'll see if i could get a hold of the msq of the ecu


----------



## qbejs (Aug 31, 2006)

Hello,

Can anyone help me with choosing best MS for 16V Turbo ( 2.0 9A ). I want to run coilpacks, boost controller, wbo2, egt, knock sensor and sequential fuel+spark control. My friend told me that MS3 will be the best for my needs but this will be my first steps in standalone ( for now I tune Digifant I ECU's only ) so I want to talk with some more experienced people.


----------



## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

you don't really need MS3 

you can get away with using MS2 v3.57 with no problems


----------



## qbejs (Aug 31, 2006)

Ok, so one more question. MS II SMD PCB3.57 will run knock sensor without any changes in pcb ? It will be great to find megasquirt which will run all my wish list without modifications in pcb.


----------



## hasoooon93 (Apr 18, 2010)

good info guys:thumbup:


----------



## Scirocco16vGTX (Jun 17, 2011)

Hi guys,

Just registered myself so I could "abuse" this topic (fantastic topic by the way!!!!!!!).
I'm Chris aka Scirocco16vGTX, I'm from Belgium (Europe) and I'm currently preparing a VW Scirocco 1986 with 1800cc 16V (KR spec) engine.
Engine is fully overhauled with overbore KS pistons, sporty Cams from CATCams, full Supersprint exhaust ect ect..

Now I am in doubt to run the OEM K-jetronic, do a Weber-conversion or go full bananas meaning Megasquirt!!
I can buy a "90% complete kit" from a friend (who dropped his project-scirocco due to little time), I would only need:
* custom fuel rail
* a custom wiring for my ignition
* some basic (injection & ignition) mapping data, to start playing with

Anyone here who can help me out?
I already tried the "VW Megasquirt forum" but very little respons over there I'm afraid....


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

What do you need to know?


----------



## Scirocco16vGTX (Jun 17, 2011)

Scirocco16vGTX said:


> * a custom wiring for my ignition
> * some basic (injection & ignition) mapping data, to start playing with


those are the most important as for now I guess


----------



## Scirocco16vGTX (Jun 17, 2011)

Scirocco16vGTX said:


> I can buy a "90% complete kit" from a friend (who dropped his project-scirocco due to little time), I would only need:
> * custom fuel rail
> * a custom wiring for my ignition
> * some basic (injection & ignition) mapping data, to start....


anybody knows if I can use an aftermarket fuelrail which was designed for Corrado 16V, on my Scirocco 16V? I'm in doubt because the intake is on the other side!


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

qbejs said:


> Ok, so one more question. MS II SMD PCB3.57 will run knock sensor without any changes in pcb ? It will be great to find megasquirt which will run all my wish list without modifications in pcb.


No it won't. And honestly knock sensors are overrated at least with MS (they don't work all that well). BUT..... the developers are working on a totally new way of dealing with knock sensor input.

and lastly while you do have to make some mods (minor) to the board, KnocksenseMS is probabaly the best working knock sensor set up available for MS. And it should work really well when the new code is done.


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Scirocco16vGTX said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just registered myself so I could "abuse" this topic (fantastic topic by the way!!!!!!!).
> I'm Chris aka Scirocco16vGTX, I'm from Belgium (Europe) and I'm currently preparing a VW Scirocco 1986 with 1800cc 16V (KR spec) engine.
> ...


Ask away I'can probably help.


----------



## rodperformance (Oct 9, 2010)

Bump ! To much good info to let go to waste!! Superb work guys,to all that have shared their knowledge i'm very gratefull and hats off!! To all of you.Roderick


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## jfg69 (Mar 19, 2003)

^^ I agree! Hoping to get a MS project started on my Mk2Gti very soon, the info here is going to come in handy! :thumbup:


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## .:RDUBBIN (Jun 27, 2008)

Working on a 2.0 16v. Puttin it in an '80 caddy, and going to run ITB's, (GSXR Throttle Body with TPS) and MS1. I am a Noob to all of this, and am trying to figure it out for myself. I have a buddy that is walking me through it and he knows what hes doing, but i dont want to get to into it and have no clue how i got there or where to go if I cant get his help. Looking at buying MS1 PCB 2.2 or PCB 3.0. Would like to see this thread stay alive and know where to go to post my questions as they come up. Will be buying MS here in the next few weeks. Any opinons out there on PCB 2.2 vs. PCB 3.0?


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

.:RDUBBIN said:


> Working on a 2.0 16v. Puttin it in an '80 caddy, and going to run ITB's, (GSXR Throttle Body with TPS) and MS1. I am a Noob to all of this, and am trying to figure it out for myself. I have a buddy that is walking me through it and he knows what hes doing, but i dont want to get to into it and have no clue how i got there or where to go if I cant get his help. Looking at buying MS1 PCB 2.2 or PCB 3.0. Would like to see this thread stay alive and know where to go to post my questions as they come up. Will be buying MS here in the next few weeks. Any opinons out there on PCB 2.2 vs. PCB 3.0?


Do not waste your time with a v2.2 mainboard. For that matter get an MS2 not an MS1. MS2/Extra has direct firmware support for ITBs. It will be much friendlier on the street.


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## Jackasic (Mar 22, 2002)

I think I have figured our the ignition wiring with my HAL dizzy. last hurdle is injectors. Most diagrams show a set up for sequential, my G60 injector harness is set up to fire them all at once (batch). do I just tie the two injector signal wires coming from the MS box together?

This seems wrong for what I have, I know the ignition is:


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

If you are planning on using the g60 injector harness then just use INJ1. And be sure to use simultaneous injector firing only. Personally I would connect INJ1 to cylinders 1 and 4 and INJ2 to cylinders 2 and 3 and use 2 squirts alternating. I do all of my batch fire installs this way and get good results.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

If you do only use one output be sure to double your req_fuel or your VE will be very high and some other settings won't make sense. 

I'm with Jeff, wire the other driver unless you have a really good (lazy would swing me!) reason to not.


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## SpahnDirge (Dec 6, 2010)

*Edit: Nevermind got it running near perfectly now!*

I've been on the search for a well put together MSQ file, preferably for 029y3/4 code.

The engine is a:

9a block
kr head
autotech cams

using MS1 V2.2 with the 029y4 extra code.

Would be very much appreciated, as everything I've found is barely put together and from over 5 years ago! :banghead:

:thumbup:


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## Jackasic (Mar 22, 2002)

i am kind of flummoxed, here is what I have so far. Motor is a ABA 16v with 260 cams, g60 injector harness, HAL, Bosch modal, and an ABA throttle body. Basically I cam make it rev to 7500k but I can't do it under load. if you dab the throttle it just dies. it acts like there is no accel mapping (which there might not be)


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## StinkBugz (Jun 16, 2011)

*Megasquirt person in PA??*

I remember talking to someone here in PA that deals with MS and I forgot his info. I think it was Ken or Scott or something like that. The person has in depth knowledge of the VR application and I would like to speak to you again. Please PM me your info so we could chat again as I have a cabby that is getting a vr swap this weekend and MS is on my list of things to do.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Hi, PM me.


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## StinkBugz (Jun 16, 2011)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Hi, PM me.


 I have found u hrs ago .. been texting you, Calling you in the am..


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## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

87 scirocco factory 16v car 
2.0 16v 
ms3 
abf parts  
60-2 
7 pin ICU for spark onto msd coil 
02a/j with peloquin


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## JimLill (Dec 17, 2003)

*Wtd: Msq*

I am just starting to convert my race car to MS. It runs in SCCA Improved Touring B road race and the rules there limit mods. Until a couple years ago, we were stuck with stock fuel systems. So now that the CIS-E can go, I am having at it. Car is a 1986 GTI with 8V RD motor. The mods are few. Blueprinted, a tad of port cleanup (rules again!), header with open exhaust, and now some freedom on the intake and fuel. Must retain distributor, stock intake, and TB.

So I have on hand or on order:

MS3
MAF
TPS
18 lb injectors + BBM rail
WB Lambda
Crank 60:2 Trigger Wheel

I'll start wiring soon, but in the meantime I am looking for a close MSQ file to use as a starting point.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

JimLill said:


> I am just starting to convert my race car to MS. It runs in SCCA Improved Touring B road race and the rules there limit mods. Until a couple years ago, we were stuck with stock fuel systems. So now that the CIS-E can go, I am having at it. Car is a 1986 GTI with 8V RD motor. The mods are few. Blueprinted, a tad of port cleanup (rules again!), header with open exhaust, and now some freedom on the intake and fuel. Must retain distributor, stock intake, and TB.
> 
> So I have on hand or on order:
> 
> ...


Don't bother hooking up the MAF (just jam the trap door wide open) . The onboard MAP sensor in the MS3 will work just fine for measuring load


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## JimLill (Dec 17, 2003)

I took off everything from the atmosphere to the TB already

I have a large K&N routed through 3" duct to the TB. The MAF is a simple add with cheap stuff (


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## vr6unplugged (Aug 19, 2009)

*mk2 gti k jectronic*

I have a [email protected] GTI K jectronic, since you have so mucho knowledge I am thinking about a fuel system install with a megasquirt/ for natural aspirated i love to gain some horsepower with new higher camshaft.... what would I need in order to have a succesful setup. As far as the megasquirt install goes and what parts are needed/// if you or someone you know sales the harness for the injectors and the Meagasquirt ECU, that would be awesome.

Thankls in advance just bouth teh car and love to have a nice daily driver.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

thepkilla said:


> Well, I have three wires on the Hall sender connector. They are: Brown, Purple, and Purple/black stripe. The solid purple is the middle wire. Now that goes to pin 26 on MS? Is the brown wire the ground? Where did you say the 12v source is under the PCB? One more question. I got a TPS from autohausaz.com P# 0280120308. Im having problems with it. It goes from 17% to 100% and flood clear mode in just a few inches of moving the pedal. Is there anything I can do to fix this? Or do I need a different one?<BR><BR>
> <i>Modified by thepkilla at 7:22 PM 2-7-2008</i>



Thread revival:
0280120308 is a switch not a sensor. There's no gradual increase in resistance, only switch for throttle closed, throttle wide open. You'll need a gradual resistance sensor; 0280120308 is worthless.


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