# 2.Slow + Holset HX35 = win?



## audi4life20v (Jan 18, 2010)

Currently upgrading my turbo setup.

Have a 2.Slow with 260 cams, double stacked head gasket, MSD 6-AL2P / coil with MS 2.2 for fuel and a small custom Audi 5000 inter cooler with aluminium end tank.

Was running a 1.6TD at 12-15 psi this summer but I got my hands on a free Holset HX35 and a cheap log style manifold.

What kind of power can I make on 91 octane? Anyone know when I will spool? How much boost do you think I can get away with?

It will be a daily unless my new clutch will be a bitch to use going to work and/or less then 250km per tank of fuel.

Just post some thoughts or suggestions so I dont explode my engine first time I spool.

And it will be backyard tuned for now unless I can get some cheap dyno time.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Search 'holset user thread'. There is one user who has one on a 2l with a cam.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

and he's making about 400whp too.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I call shenanigans


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

explain


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## audi4life20v (Jan 18, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> I call shenanigans


The 400whp guy? 

With water/meth and some serious fkin tuning I could see it being possible on an obdI head or mabeh OBDII.

I shall take a search for it.

Thanks for the heads up as I r Vortex noob.

Have a picture to justify coming back to see my reply.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

That would be Q. Q's last dyno was 375whp on medium-boost. Ported head, tubular manifold, home-brew sri, w/m, 830cc injectors (I think), maestro, all forged internals, and a custom grind tt cam. capable of much more but he told me he keeps breaking axles.

Oh yeah, it's a mk4 too.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> That would be Q. Q's last dyno was 375whp on medium-boost. Ported head, tubular manifold, home-brew sri, w/m, 830cc injectors (I think), maestro, all forged internals, and a custom grind tt cam. capable of much more but he told me he keeps breaking axles.
> 
> Oh yeah, it's a mk4 too.


I was joking, but his 2liter is not. I assume his bottom end has the usual goodies?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Ah I couldn't tell. Well it's a 94 so it's got the "bottom end goodies" lol


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## audi4life20v (Jan 18, 2010)

I unfortunately dont have bottom end goodies or all of that fancy stuff. 

Just a basic home brew OBDII 2.Slow turbo that I'm going to attempt to get as much power from the stock internals as possible.

Who knows, maybe when I move out and actually have time to build a proper car I will. Till then I'll stick my cheap ass teenage ways.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

If you're keeping stock internals, you're probably better off looking at the 16g units. I *think* i remember reading odb2 aba rods were good until around the 400hp mark. the hx35 is a big guy. Even the "smaller" ones are still pretty big

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...-results-only-complete-installed-systems.html


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Hx30w ftw. Search g60scuzz, he had one on his pg running 24 psi or so, just a few short of 300 whp. That turbo had more to go but I think he was still on digi1.

Think disco potato on a budget.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

throw as much boost at that ABA as you can and blow it up. only wankers run forged internals...


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

please take note, spool on a holset is not very good for an 8v, just look at Q's graph.....
if you are looking for limited power (sub 300) you are better off suited with a different turbo, like a 16g as mentioned, or super60, or even a 50trim...something to get full boost below 4.5k.

When you make 400hp off an 8v I don't expect the spool to be awesome because you put a huge turbo to make it, its going to be lazy hes running 25+ lbs of boost, not sure if you can call that "medium" :screwy:, but maybe opposed to the 36psi he ran w/ c16  (pushing 500whp mark)


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

That was also on a non-twin scroll manifold with .93a/r turbine housing. If he was using the .55 a/r (or even .7ar) bullseye housings, or a twin-scroll manifold, it would have been a lot sooner.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

GTijoejoe said:


> please take note, spool on a holset is not very good for an 8v, just look at Q's graph.....
> if you are looking for limited power (sub 300) you are better off suited with a different turbo, like a 16g as mentioned, or super60, or even a 50trim...something to get full boost below 4.5k.
> 
> When you make 400hp off an 8v I don't expect the spool to be awesome because you put a huge turbo to make it, its going to be lazy hes running 25+ lbs of boost, not sure if you can call that "medium" :screwy:, but maybe opposed to the 36psi he ran w/ c16  (pushing 500whp mark)


What do you consider awsome? KO3? You cannot have awsome spool and 400whp.


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## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

TIGninja said:


> What do you consider awsome? KO3? You cannot have awsome spool and 400whp.


VGT might just prove you can but time will tell.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

TIGninja said:


> What do you consider awsome? KO3? You cannot have awsome spool and 400whp.


Hey now, reread... i stated that :sly:

I consider full boost before 4k to be 'awesome'.... my old setup made 280wtq by 3.6k... thats pretty awesome wouldn't you agree?


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

GTijoejoe said:


> Hey now, reread... i stated that :sly:
> 
> I consider full boost before 4k to be 'awesome'.... my old setup made 280wtq by 3.6k... thats pretty awesome wouldn't you agree?


Thats a good area. I get full boost on my ABA from the 5557 about that point as well.


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## lucas13dourado (Oct 1, 2007)

TIGninja said:


> What do you consider awsome? KO3? You cannot have awsome spool and 400whp.


yes you can, rotary + 35r done


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

not high hp/tq yet, but I'd say this spool on my hx35 is pretty good:


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

Is that on an ABA?
I wouldn't think so by your VRT in your sig, please confirm.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

if you can find a 9cm^2 tubine housing rather than the usual 12cm ones on the hx35, or swing an aftermarket one with a smaller A/r it will spool fine.


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

if you want quicker spool with the HX35 get the BEP .70a/r housing....but i mean i see 30psi by 4300 in 3rd with the oem dodge 12cm (.89a/r) housing on these 35* days....i think it's fine


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> if you want quicker spool with the HX35 get the BEP .70a/r housing....but i mean i see 30psi by 4300 in 3rd with the oem dodge 12cm (.89a/r) housing on these 35* days....i think it's fine


Q, no body likes a liar... keep your foot off the brake


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

GTijoejoe said:


> Q, no body likes a liar... keep your foot off the brake


bitch...i'm bout to go out to get a spare ecu now...i can do a quick vid for you girly man!


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> bitch...i'm bout to go out to get a spare ecu now...i can do a quick vid for you girly man!


You'll just brake boost that too


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

fine sally..here you go...guess the audio compression distorted the sound of the turbo spool..



and a freeze frame...just before traction went BYE-BYE:banghead::laugh:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

looks nice :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> looks nice :thumbup:


yea nice and useless :laugh:


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

GTijoejoe said:


> Is that on an ABA?
> I wouldn't think so by your VRT in your sig, please confirm.


12v :thumbup: (I know it's an aba thread, just wanted to share. I think these turbos do incredibly well at giving the best of both worlds. That's on the stock .89 a/r housing).


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## way2manydubs (Mar 10, 2006)

obdONE said:


> 12v :thumbup: (I know it's an aba thread, just wanted to share. I think these turbos do incredibly well at giving the best of both worlds. That's on the stock .89 a/r housing).


So... this has NOTHING to do with the original post. Thanks for the dyno graph. Any other non related stuff to post here for us?


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

way2manydubs said:


> So... this has NOTHING to do with the original post. Thanks for the dyno graph. Any other non related stuff to post here for us?


I'm going to have a begal for breakfast


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

GTijoejoe said:


> I'm going to have a begal for breakfast


you spelled it wrong ya big dummy!


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

way2manydubs said:


> So... this has NOTHING to do with the original post. Thanks for the dyno graph. Any other non related stuff to post here for us?


it was a comment made directly in correlation to spool characteristics of Holset turbos and others that may or may not have "great spool" (like Tig-Ninja's comment of a Rotary engine and a 35R. Would you like to call him out as well?). Yes, I qualified my statement saying that I am running a 12v which has nothing to do with the original topic. So, flame on internet maven. You're sure doing a great job of impressing me with your observational skills.


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## way2manydubs (Mar 10, 2006)

I thought maybe this was some sort of reading comprehension test. OP was referring to holset spool characteristics on a 2.0
Not any other engine.
Tig Ninja seems to contribute all sorts of useful topic related information all over the vortex.
Reading IS fundamental after all.
Ive never had a begal for breakfast... I consider them more of a brunch menu item.
Good to know you can see im an a$$hole. I was totally unaware til u noted that fact
Thank you for you time.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> you spelled it wrong ya big dummy!


I just doubled checked, thats what it says on the package ........ I had another one this morning :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

GTijoejoe said:


> I just doubled checked, thats what it says on the package ........ I had another one this morning :thumbup:


dont try to blame the BAGEL company for your stoopedness!


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> dont try to blame the BAGEL company for your stoopedness!


Well at least both 'Saralee' and 'Thomas' agree 

Is that enough unrelated topic info 






ps. Saralee begals are delicious


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

GTijoejoe said:


> Well at least both 'Saralee' and 'Thomas' agree
> 
> Is that enough unrelated topic info
> 
> ...


you damn right they are!! Now...strawberry or grape jelly!?

Cream chz or butter?


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

ok and to keep things on topic....

if i were to do another 2.0 + HX35 setup...i'd go for the .70a/r BEP turbine housing for sure :thumbup:


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> ok and to keep things on topic....
> 
> if i were to do another 2.0 + HX35 setup...i'd go for the .70a/r BEP turbine housing for sure :thumbup:


What are the exact specs on the turbo your currently using?

BTW I put honey and butter on my begals


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

GTijoejoe said:


> What are the exact specs on the turbo your currently using?
> 
> BTW I put honey and butter on my begals


HX35w
Comp. Wheel:
54mm Inducer
76.2mm Exducer

Turbine Wheel:
80mm Inducer
70mm Exducer

12cm^2 (.89a/r) hotside

So think of it as a t3/t4 50trim with a BIG ASS hotside.

And you OhiHO boys are wierd....


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## Northfox (Jul 6, 2010)

yo, OP, you reside in the edmonton area?


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## audi4life20v (Jan 18, 2010)

MASSSIIIIIVEEE OP BUMP!

Anyways Yes I reside in Edmonton area. I drive a white mk3 with a mauve? hood I got for free after I destroyed teh first one.


Sooo I'll update the situation.

Got the car running and tuned to decent AFR's @ wastegate pressure of 7 psi.(spooled full boost somewhere between 3500-4000) This was going from the old tune on the old K24...

So I got my Turbosmart manual controller in and read the knob to see which way would be fully open so I could see if it would cause any boost creep.

Now I'm sure im not retarded but according to the know I was supposed to turn it counter clockwise to open it. Well I guess I was wrong and when I went to test and only got 9 psi in 1st gear because thats not a long enough gear to load the engine....

Tried 2nd gear and got a nasty result... Boost hit 5 psi at 3500... 9 psi at 3900...... 20+ psi at 4000..........

Have yet to properly inspect the damage but there is fluid in cyl #1, cyl #2 has the spark plug steam cleaned and im burning tons of coolant in the 5 minute drive home from where I was....

No knocks and it sounds okay sans the constant miss on one of the chambers. But theres some water/coolant in the oil as my level went a bit up.

Was told its possible I bent the head, ****ed threads if the bolts stretched or worse. But with me having double stacked gaskets and stock head bolts (previous owner of the engine did this not me) its most likely I only blew out the head gaskets. I'm going to double stack again but with ARP hardware this time.... I may also go to an electronic controller if affordable...

On the bright side the turbo spools amazingly fast for the pressure I saw... :banghead:

My intake plumbing job and intercooler with plastic end tanks didnt blow apart at all,

And no rods or pistons made it out the side of the block thanks to Megasquirt going into limp mode after 15 psi and dumping as much fuel as possible into the engine when it overboosted. (10.0 AFR ratios + some black smoke out of my "exhaust" that goes out the hood)


Time to rebuild and hopefully take some smaller steps to 20 psi next time.... :thumbup:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

audi4life20v said:


> MASSSIIIIIVEEE OP BUMP!
> 
> 
> Tried 2nd gear and got a nasty result... Boost hit 5 psi at 3500... 9 psi at 3900...... 20+ psi at 4000..........
> ...


Bet it was fun as **** running 20 psi :laugh:. Use ms for boost control, no need to add external electronic devices and it would cost a whole lot less.


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## audi4life20v (Jan 18, 2010)

XD Well until it crossed the VE map limit/lifted the head it hauled some serious ass! XD 

I'm a MS2.2 noob. Aside from some tuning I never actually messed with the hardware itself.

I may stick with the knob now that I know its ass backwards. 

Also as an update I got 2 new head gaskets and I have my ARP studs.

Towed the car to the shop and tomorrow I rip into it. 

If all goes well and nothing is broken I should be able to get it running again soon... Then I can sloooooowwwly raise the boost and tune for the big pressure! 

Or just break it again! :laugh:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I didn't catch what you're using for a wastegate, but the stocker on the HX is notorious for being too small for a gas engine. You may need to go external or try porting out the hole.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

I dont recomend the "let the smoke out" means of testing.  The way you test this is to roll into the pedal and back out at all rpm points. Its hard to explain but it keeps people from overboosting like this.


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## audi4life20v (Jan 18, 2010)

need_a_VR6 said:


> I didn't catch what you're using for a wastegate, but the stocker on the HX is notorious for being too small for a gas engine. You may need to go external or try porting out the hole.


I've got the internal gate welded shut and I'm running a Turbosmart 38mm. When I was running the spring pressure (7psi on mine) it wasn't creeping or overboosting at all. Even in 5th loaded as hard as possible ;D


And yea I guess I learned the hardway how not to test for creep or to check how much boost my manual controller is set at....
A few of the guys I know on our local forum already gave me **** for doing it how I did lol. But oh well, just another step in learning. :laugh:


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

Just thought I would chime in.

Stock Holset HX35's can be found on any 95-98 Cummins truck. In 98.5 they added a 24v Cummins. From 98.5-2002, standards had an HY35 (HX35 with a 9cm housing) while the autos had HX35.

The divider in them are commonly drilled out to relieve the backpressure when the wastegate opened. This allowed the exhaust to bypass the turbine much easier from the front half to the rear half where the wastegate was.

94 and some 95's had a WH1C. H1C compressor, HX35 turbine.

89-91 had a H1C "baby". 50mm or 52mm compressor. Then 91.5-93 INTERCOOLED trucks had the H1C big brother with a 56mm compressor. But they had a laggy 18cm housing (92, in order to prevent more automatic warranty issues due to "too fast a spooling turbo" had a "Lagmaster" 21cm housing)

All 3 turbos can be had for around $100 (baby H1C) to $200 (Hy35). These turbos are useless once you turn up the fuel in a diesel.

HTH.


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