# 2.8L 30V Timing Belt Change--Lessons Learned



## EnduringCactus (Dec 20, 2009)

I want to thank you all for your advice on this project. You were an in spiration. I wanted to take some time to give a lesson's learned to help anyone on this journey in the future. I know nothing about engines so this is directed to someone like me.
1. Stay focused on the mission.
a. I thought it would save me some time to drain the oil while waiting on parts. No problem. When I later hand cranked the crankshaft to see if the timing was 'good' there was a loud clicking on the passenger side. This was a new sound. So I was very nervous that I screwed something up. To be certain I removed the valve cover to take a peek. All clear. While removing the valve cover I broke several brittle breather hoses. One in particular was desperately hard to install and I almost broke some stuff wile doing that.
b. While waiting on parts I changed the spark plugs. This activity damaged some of the wiring which caused the car to run rough at idle with very little power. I thought the timing was bad and an expert helped me figure out it was not the timing, but some other parts.
LESSON LEARNED: Change only one thing at a time so the cause of any new problems is easier to pin point.
2. Buy the TDC locking pin. I did the job the first time without the pin (nor the special bar) and had to re-install the belt a second time because the crankshaft moved. I wanted to be sure.
a. After I bought the pin I re-did everything to be sure it was all good. The pin makes it much harder to screw up because it keeps one componant of the system from changing while you do the work.
3. Buy the special cam alignment tool. I made my own out of a 2x4 and it worked (kind of). But you will feel much better by using the tool and it makes it almost impossible to screw-up.
Using the 2x4 was stressful because it was not exact and there was uncertainty in what the outcome would be.
4. Relax. Just do what the guide book says.
It's not a lot of lessons. I hope it helps. If you run into trouble let me know and I can try to help you.
Good Luck!


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## tryin2vw (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: 2.8L 30V Timing Belt Change--Lessons Learned (EnduringCactus)*

Glad things turned out OK.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

*Re: 2.8L 30V Timing Belt Change--Lessons Learned (tryin2vw)*

Feels good to save a pile of money, eh?


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: 2.8L 30V Timing Belt Change--Lessons Learned (DieGTi)*

Buy your TB kit from Bluaparts..they rent a complete tool kit to buyers of their parts for a nominal amount..$35 when I checked into it (B4 I got work done under powertrain warranty for free...WP failed)....the tool kit makes job much faster and less stress..includes not only the crank lock, cam alignment bar, but also cam gear puller, camshaft seal puller etc etc.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dstdub (Apr 5, 2003)

*Re: 2.8L 30V Timing Belt Change--Lessons Learned (spitpilot)*

enduring,,,which "guide book" are you talking about? which one did you use?
im planning on tack;ling this in a month or two. kind of dreading it, honesly.







tnx,.


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## EnduringCactus (Dec 20, 2009)

*Re: 2.8L 30V Timing Belt Change--Lessons Learned (dstdub)*

Follow this link it's far better than the guidebooks.
http://phatcat_ed.tripod.com/V6.htm
Buy the Hayes or Chilton, either are equally bad, but still worthwhile to give you a general idea and aid in learning. They are like supplements to the link above.
Buy the TDC pin ($30 more or less on amazon). Buy the cam adjuster bar, $100 (I did not buy it and fashioned one out of a 2x4). In retrospect, I wish I would have bought the cam bar. You can get the pin/bar together. You can even rent them. The cam bar idiot proofs the process.
Taking the bumper off is intimidating. Just take your time and think it through. I completely removed everything. I liked having plenty of room. Don't mess up the electrical wires (by stretching them). As an aid I used two 5g buckets and plywood 
After the bumper is off it's actually very easy from there out.
Watch out removing bolts as some of mine had lock-tite holding them in and I broke a bolt. If you do get an extraction kit. It's a little scary, but you can work it out.
Crank the engine by hand and listen carefully before you remove the belt. Study the noises, make notes what you hear and how it feels. When you change the belt listen and see if it feels the same. If it does then you are probably safe.
I replaced every timing/water pump part while I was there, and I think you should do the same. For the extra $200-$300 it's worth it to not have to do the procedure again for five years.
To get the TDC plug out and the TDC lock pin in, come in from the front of the engine. I have big hands and this was hard to do.
Wear those blue gloves and keep something on your garage floor as a dirty engine/fluids can make a mess.
Take your time. I had my car apart for 10 days waiting for parts, etc. Without a time pressure it made it much easier.
Good luck.
EC




_Modified by EnduringCactus at 8:18 AM 1-9-2010_


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## dstdub (Apr 5, 2003)

*Re: 2.8L 30V Timing Belt Change--Lessons Learned (EnduringCactus)*

enduring,,,
thanks for the tips! much appreciated. ill probably take front bumper off irst and see if i need the seals. then ill order.
i can take time as well as it just sits in the garage most of the time.


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## tryin2vw (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: 2.8L 30V Timing Belt Change--Lessons Learned (dstdub)*

You can check the seals by removing the timing belt covers, not needing to remove the front bumper cover.


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## dstdub (Apr 5, 2003)

good to know! tnx


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## gravityjunkie (Sep 4, 2010)

Thanks EnduringCactus, that link is great. I am about ready to start mine, waiting on the TB kit and tool kit rental from Blauautoparts. Just did the timing on an 07 2.0T A4, may have been the easiest car that have ever ever done the timing on. So I am looking to forward to doing the 2.8. I have heard all kind of horror stories, but having some know how and the right tools, I believe makes all the difference.
So here's hopeing all goes well


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

its the reason technicians hate working on european cars. You need lots of special tools to do the job correctly. My co worker like to fix things "his way" all the time, and believe me, its not very smart. opcorn:


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## V42 (Feb 25, 2008)

...and replace the t-belt tensioner even if it looks good. Mine **** the bed yesterday, now I have to pull the heads:banghead:


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## 2001 Variant (May 27, 2007)

Here are my experiences so far:

I'm in the process of doing the TB job. I'm not done yet since I only have time to work on it a few hours every session and I'm waiting for some parts as well. I finished up the disassembly and already have the new water pump and thermostat in place and the new belt on and tensioned (with all new components down to the relay lever for the tensioner).

I did not remove the radiator support (only moved it in service position) which made access a little tight but doable. Main issue with the tightness were the bolts for the fan bracket since they were hard to see (the ones hidden behind the pulley) and were pretty corroded/worn on the head. I ended up using a screw extractor on one of them. I'm currently waiting on new bolts (for the fan bracket and another one with stripped head from the vibration damper - replacing all 8 of them). I'm also waiting for a new lower TB cover (the one around the crankshaft) since mine is deformed and has rubbing marks from where it made contact with the idler roller.

I bought the cam clamp and locking pin as well as the "chopsticks" (two sticks that are hinged at one end and have pins on the side on the other end to grab into indentations in the fan pulley) and a 32mm thin wrench for the fan. The lock pin and cam bar were really essential and made it fairly easy. I don't know how you could do it without. Even with the sprockets popped off and the tensioner compressed it was still difficult to get the new belt on. I ended up loosening the idler roller which gave me a tad more slack to get the belt on. I put the belt on the tensioner roller last since it's the only one that is smooth (w/o teeth) and has no raised edge so slipping the belt on is easier. It was also somewhat difficult to remove the old belt from the crank sprocket since it is pretty tight in there. I can't imagine trying to get the belt back on in a specific position (based on marked teeth) if you would do the job without the cam bracket.
I had a difficult time getting the plug for the crank pin out. It was really stuck in it's cavity and I couldn't reach well at all despite having the car on a lift.
You really don't need to have the cam bar on all the time. I used it once in the beginning when setting the crank to TDC to double check that it would fit and to make sure I was in the right position (I was able to move the cams slightly by using the cam bar as a lever until I was able to plug it in on both cams - depending on quality of the bar this might not be a good idea since you could bend the pins). The TDC mark on the vibration damper and the lower timing cover were very close but not completely in line when the cams were aligned with the bar. When I screwed the lock pin in I did so by hand and rocked the crank back and forth slightly which would allow me to screw the pin in further. I did this a few times and every time the rocking play became less. The pin was still showing thread when I couldn't get it in any further and the crank was tightly locked. Don't use a wrench!

I initially had purchased a 24mm 6point socket to turn the crank. I knew I needed a 12point but somehow didn't realize it when I bought it. The only local place that carried a 12point in this size was O'Reilly Auto Parts ($7). I used a large torque wrench for leverage.

I don't think I really needed the chopsticks and 32mm wrench. I probably could have used a (cheaper) strap wrench to hold the fan pulley and an adjustable wrench for the nut. I opted for the special tools since I didn't wanted to have it as easy as possible (especially if the bolt had been seized on) but in retrospect I could have tried without. I did use the chopsticks to retain one other part but I forget what it was.

I used a 2 prong sprocket puller from Autozone ($45 to buy or rent for free - I opted to rent). It's made by OEM and is part number 27001. It's a little big but fits. I turned the jaws to the outside and removed one while I inserted the other side into the sprocket. Then I inserted the one I had removed into the sprocket and screwed it back into the puller. I used a 3/4 box wrench to turn the puller shaft (only took a few turns and the sprocket popped off with a loud pop).

I used a 3/32 drill bit to secure the hydraulic tensioner after I compressed it (I'm not intending to reuse it but you never know). The 3/32 bit fit perfectly.

I used an old L-shaped allen wrench that came with some assemble at home furniture to lock the accessory belt tensioner. I'm also not intending to reuse this one but again, you never know and you can't install it once it's tension is released.

I used compressed air multiple times during the process to clean dirt and debris from parts and to keep things clean.

Hopefully I'll get my parts soon and find the time to put it all back together. Since I'm waiting for the vibration damper bolts and the lower timing cover I don't have the TDC marks at the moment so I didn't want to hand crank the engine yet but I have no reason to believe that it wouldn't work.
Overall I think the biggest issue is getting the radiator out of your way (service position of remove - not much difference in amount of work to get there) and I'm worried most about getting those parts back together.


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## MolotovMan (Jul 7, 2006)

I just finished up my TB job as well. 
After getting everything done I'd say it was pretty easy if you have the right stuff. 

Must haves are the correct cam locking bar and Crank locking pin. Everything else you can get by with a couple allen sockets, a T30 torx socket, 1/2 torque wrench w/ 24mm 12 point socket, a 1/2 inch Breaker bar w/ pipe and an adjuatble wrench to get the clutch fan off. Use a cordless impact to remove as many bolts as you can- this will keep you from breaking things. A 10MM ratcheting wrench and some long bent needle nose pliers are nice as well.


Also have a couple of cans of degreaser, and a bucket or gatorade bottle to rinse the degreased areas off.

Open the front carrier. You don't need to take off the lower radiator hose, It will bend. The upper one is tough, but once you remove the locking spring just have patience, and wiggle it off.


Before you even start the TB job, replace any coolant hoses that are swelled due to oil leaks.

You DON'T need the chopsticks. Just take the fan off with the four allen bolts, then wedge a screwdriver in the pulley and remove the nut with an adjustable wrench.

The easiest way to get the plug out of the side of the block to install the crank pin is to remove one bolt under the engine mount that holds an electrical connector in place. After that you have clear access and can fit your big hand in there with a ratcheting wrench.
MAKE SURE TO USE A NEW CRANK BOLT IF YOU REPLACE THE OIL SEAL. The torque for it is 147 ft. Lbs Plus a half turn. Don't take the risk of reusing the old one, it could break.

Put everything back together the way it came apart, don't use your impact to reinstall things. 

Make sure to preload the timing tensioner before tighening the cam gears back down.

Crank the engine a couple times by hand before you put the carrier back together to make sure you got everything aligned right.

Good luck!


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