# Evans Coolant experiences...



## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

As the topic suggests, I am curious about any and all experiecnes with Evans Coolant, even in non-VW autos... I am curious especially in how high people have gone with their compression ratios, spark and/or cam advance, turbos, etc.= anything that can build excessive heat. I am sriously considering building a high compression 8V to go into my '83 GTi. Skeptics, post if you like, but I am more interested in EXPERIENCE with this product, good OR bad...


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## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

tell me more about it. I can put it in my old g60 and datalog the temp changes and dynamic effects by tweaking the ecu and seeing what comes out of it. My shiznit runs hot.


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## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (mrkrad)*

quote:[HR][/HR]tell me more about it. I can put it in my old g60 and datalog the temp changes and dynamic effects by tweaking the ecu and seeing what comes out of it. My shiznit runs hot.
[HR][/HR]​Go to evanscollant.com . There is a ton of info to sift through here, including an article about a semi that ran this stuff for 500K with no visible/measureable wear on the pistons. He saw something like a .75 mpg increase, which is hugw when you only get 6.5 mpg to begin with! Read about it... There is a ton of info to sift through, take you time and read it all to understand it. Look for the really old article from European Car, circa '92? They said that they thought one could run 12 to 1 compression with no knocks! I am a little scared of that, but it looks good...
David


[Modified by fahrvegnugen, 2:52 AM 7-23-2002]


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

The basics, if I understand it is that you evacuate ALL water from the coolant system, refill with the new stuff and run without presurrizing the system (no 15 psi cap on rad).
Said to conduct heat away better leading to reduced hot spots in the block/ head.
How am I doing so far?
TBerk


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (TBerk)*

The stuff sounds absolutlely wonderful. The Rabbit article is titled "Lurching towards Success" or something along those lines and can be seen on the Evans site, at least the last time I was there. 
The catch with this stuff is that if it truly does what it says, why doesn't EVERYONE use it? If you could run 12:1 cr on pump gas merely by using $40 worth of special coolant, the whole performance world would be on board. But they're not. I have no firsst hand experiences with the stuff, and have been sorely tempted, but the skeptic in me just won't shut up......there's a catch somewhere...........
I've spoken with a Vortexer or two that use it, and both reported satisfactory results, but neither had cr over 11:1. In my motor, 11:1 is handled by standard coolant quite well, no need for Evans. So these 2 guys aren't a good measuring stick. And my buddy Dave justs put it into his 2.0 8v Rabbit in an attempt to mitigate a hot weather ping problem and it didn't do much for him.


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (Andrew Stauffer)*

Why do they boast that there coolant is "Propylene Glycol"? So what!? Some of the gennaric green stuff is propylene glycol based. 
So there web site is fancy, does that mean it must be true? I am a true non-beliver when it comes to this stuff. I't probably works just as well as regular coolant mix. 
From Evans coolant... Get your boots on its getting deep in here!
quote:[HR][/HR]When vapor blankets the surface, water-based coolants lose their ability to absorb heat from the hot spots in the combustion chambers, leading to high metal temperature spikes well above critical levels. The result is loss of power from detonation or component structural failure from pre-ignition in the form of piston damage, head gasket failure, and/or warped or cracked heads.
Water-based coolant is operated near its boiling point. Cylinder liner cavitation erosion is caused by vibration-induced high frequency pressure changes at the metal-coolant interface. Coolant, near its boiling point, makes vapor bubbles that abruptly collapse against the metal surface, causing erosion of the metal. EVANS NPG Coolant contains no water and is not operated near its boiling point.
The boiling point of EVANS (non-aqueous propylene glycol) NPG Coolant is 370 degrees F in a non- or low-pressurized system. The coolant is normally controlled at conventional temperatures but functions perfectly well at higher temperatures, even considerably higher temperatures. Detonation/pre-ignition control and previously forbidden combustion chamber pressures and temperatures are no longer the danger they were to thermal engine efficiency and durability.[HR][/HR]​This is pure SALESMENSHIP! They use a lot of big words to make it sound more technical than it is _"Cylinder liner cavitation erosion is caused by vibration-induced high frequency pressure changes"_ WOW! I sure am impressed! 
Any gennaric green coolant has a boiling point close to 370 degrees if you don't mix it with water! 
High comp pre-ignition is caused by compression IT'S SELF, not because of the heat from the cylinder walls! If you do not believe me, then here is the theory at work ~> http://www.hollowtop.com/hopsstore_html/fire_pistons.htm 



[Modified by gearhead455, 2:33 AM 7-23-2002]


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

"Any gennaric green coolant has a boiling point close to 370 degrees if you don't mix it with water"
Remember that Chemistry 101 class you dropped out of? Mixing the regular coolant with water actually lowers the freezing point and raises the boiling point! European Car magazine has done a couple articles on this stuff as well as Circle Track magazine. Compression causes heat; Boyles Law (Chem 201). Everyone has an opinion but you could at least try and get a clue about the reality of the situation before you make your declarations.


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (Andrew Stauffer)*

A lot of people DO use it. Some of the "Big 3" attempted to use it and ended up in court because Evans had the patent. Evans won. One area of motorsports where it could really shine is on the roundy-rounders tracks. Unfortunately many tracks rule water only in order to keep the track surface raceable in the event of a leak onto the track. It's not the be all to end all but it certainly does work.


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (art.clemens)*

Incorrect Art... I have my story together; I'm not just making stuff up. Some normal coolants are PG based.
http://www.mallchem.com/msds/p6928.htm 
Physical and Chemical Properties
_Appearance: 
Clear oily liquid. 
Odor: 
Odorless. 
Solubility: 
Miscible in water. 
Specific Gravity: 
1.0361 @ 20C/4C 
pH: 
No information found. 
% Volatiles by volume @ 21C (70F): 
No information found. 
Boiling Point: 
188.2C *(370F)* 
Melting Point: 
-59C (-74F) 
Vapor Density (Air=1): 
2.6 
Vapor Pressure (mm Hg): 
0.129 @ 25C (77F) 
Evaporation Rate (BuAc=1): 
0.01_
Pre-Ignition from lack of octane or mega high compression is caused by the volatility of the mixture itself. 
Pre-ignition and detonation can also be caused by hot carbon, advanced timing, irregularities in the combustion chamber or overheating. Evans coolant will not function as a "Band-Aid" for any of the above problems. Good engine building practices and use of high-octane fuel is the key to a well performing high compression engine. Racing teams may use Evans coolant and I am sure that it is a great product, but I doubt any of the race vehicles are "skimping" out on high-octane fuel or a quality cooling system. There is a tremendous amount of talk on Vortex that "You can run 12:1 comp on pump gas, just use this coolant!" I find that irritating to listen to.
Boiling point of strait Peak RV Antifreeze:
http://www.peakantifreeze.com/msds/pkrv_marine_msds.html 
PG vs. EG Coolant
http://www.peakantifreeze.com/tech/tech_a.html 


[Modified by gearhead455, 1:17 AM 7-23-2002]


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

I'm going to refrain from comment on the materials that it's made out of and the gearhead-Art debate, and I do realize that more folks use it than I'm aware of, ie the big picture that encompasses more than just VWs, but I still suggest there's a catch somewhere. 
I just can't get over the fact that if this coolant would allow 12:1 on pump gas, every normally aspirated street motor built would go for it, it seems. In the last decade, BMW, Porsche and Toyota have all used 11.3:1 or even 11.5:1 on cars you and I could buy off the local dealer lot. These use conventional coolant, pump gas, I know it's the killer management that allows it, but somehow this still just does not add up.


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## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (Andrew Stauffer)*

BOYS, BOYS, BOYS! If you notice, I posted this originally to request EXPERIENCE with this stuff. Gearhead, I am familiar with your ideas, and thanks for the input. Now, can we stick to real-world experience? No, I am not questioning your comments, nor the info that you have kindly deposited onto this discussion, but that is not what I am looking for. I am looking for those that have worked with this stuff, and their experiences, GOOD OR BAD. Now, having said that, can we begin to talk about that, alone? Thanks........
David


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

I was wondering what happened to the question. 
I do love the squabbling though.


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## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (Vdubs)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I was wondering what happened to the question. 
I do love the squabbling though.







[HR][/HR]​Not me. Hey, go to bed, would yah? It's got to be late there... But, have you seen that stuff over there? I asked Evans what their connections were over there, and they said that they were only testing in Italy.... Curious to hear what their impact is over there...
David


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

I have no experience with Evens, but I have experience with engines that have a potential for serious detonation. I don't think I am currently having a problem with cylinder liner cavitation erosion caused by vibration-induced high frequency pressure changes. Since that is a fact, I chose to save my $40 for premium beer.


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Perhaps you should be more specific then. Peak and Sierra are NOT "any generic green coolant" "any generic green coolant" does NOT have a 370 degree boiling point. I see you have gone from a "true non believer" to "Racing teams may use Evans coolant and I am sure that it is a great product" I have ran this stuff for about 8 years in a couple different cars. I run 11:1 on 93 octane. I have taken other precautions like 160 t-stat, big oil coolers, thermal barrier coatings. I can confidently run hard in hot conditions without worrying about engine temps. If I ever can't find good gas I know it will still run OK on lesser octane. Darrell Vitone was the origin of the 12:1 16V line. He thought it would work. From what I have seen with this coolant I believe it. I wish I had gotten 12:1 pistons for the engine I am building now. Small Chevys have been proven to work well at 12:1 on pump gas with this coolant and that's a no knock sensor ignition setup. If you don't believe in it then by all means don't buy it. I sunk about $7000 into my 2096cc 16V and I sure don't want it to knock at all if I can keep it from it. I will continue to put Evans in all my hot motors unless something better comes along. It has proven itself to me.


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (art.clemens)*

I said normal green coolant had a boiling point _close_ to Evans. Pure EG has a boiling point of about 350 degrees F, which is still way above the engine melt down temp. I did not drop out of chemistry class and would never imply someone did as an effort to put someone down. My comments are harsh but are rarely directed at a person’s character. If you want to get your point across do it with facts.
I agree with everything you said about how YOU use Evans coolant in addition to a well-suited cooling system / fuel. I am afraid that people will think that just adding this coolant and a set of 12:1 slugs is all you need. The set up you describe is 11:1 with a knock sensor, use good fuel (most of the time), oil cooler, T barrier, and a 160 thermostat? Yeah... it won't knock. 
12:1 is really pushing it on pump gas. I just would not feel all warm n' fuzzy with my fresh rebuild running on 93, with Evans being the only thing between a holed piston and I.



[Modified by gearhead455, 4:49 AM 7-23-2002]


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## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I have no experience with Evens, but I have experience with engines that have a potential for serious detonation. I don't think I am currently having a problem with cylinder liner cavitation erosion caused by vibration-induced high frequency pressure changes. Since that is a fact, I chose to save my $40 for premium beer.







[HR][/HR]​G, I am not going to get into an argument with you. I have done some research, and have discovered the pitfalls in your arguments. If you wish to discuss them, then contact me privately, or anyone else interested may also contact me privately. As I said, I made the post to see REAL-WORLD results, not 'facts' taken out of context. BTW, why is that your favorite Vortex quote, hmmmm?








David


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## dkveuro (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

Okay...so, Who has used this Evans Coolant then..? Well, I for one and Mitsubishi Engineering for another...How does it perform ? go buy some and find out !








Chrome don't get you home !!


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (dkveuro)*

dkveuro,
Elaborate a bit, your post doesnt amount to much. For instance, why shold we trusst your opinion?(insert engine specs and results here).


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Ford [I think, maybe Dodge, could be GM] diesels had a big problem with heads being coroded away because of the antifreeze boiling out. They have an additive that suppose to prevent most of this. It is a true problem with some engines and with antifreeze boiling. It may not be your [or my] problem. I do like premium beer so I would probably just use regular antifreeze [it's free at work anyway, antifreeze, not beer].


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

F - I do not wish to speak to you privately. So far I have posted several articles that shoots down that propylene glycol is something special worthy of a $40 purchase. Evans is 100% PG and so is generic $8 a gallon RV antifreeze. If you have something to disprove what I have said than post it. 
No one has come forward and stated that Evans cured my detonation, if anything there has been posts stating the opposite on a different thread. (real world)
No one is really listening to what I am saying. I never said that I thought that Evans was bad stuff, I simply stated that it is just a piece in the overall picture. You need more than Evans to run high compression.
Also, you have to remember that there web site is a marketing tool and is naturally biased to putting a 30 page technical spin on there statements. I am still scratching my head wondering in this sea of impressive words why they have not taken the time to post a knock signal graph of PG vs. 50/50 EG? It's a vary simple test. Also Evans claims to "add power" yet they have not one dyno plot?
The quote is taken from one of your posts. 



[Modified by gearhead455, 3:00 PM 7-23-2002]


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

This is interesting...
Article from Circle Track magazine:
quote:[HR][/HR]Next, we wanted to know what properties in Evans' non-aqueous propylene glycol make it special. In looking at the spec sheet, the first thing that pops out is the fact that its convection of heat transfer is one-third lower than that of water. With propylene glycol's low heat transfer characteristics, you would think the NPG would not be able to get the heat out of the engine. 
We asked Jack Evans about this point. He said, "We found that getting the heat out of the engine is based on flow, specific heat, and the characteristics of the fluid. We discovered that, by adjusting the flow, we could get a lot of the convection transfer rate back. We knew if we kept the pressure drop (Delta P) across the engine very low, we could get a lot of flow through the engine. When we do that, it brings back the convection transfer. 
The Evans NPG cooling system consists of the non-aqueous coolant, the high-volume NPG coolant pump, and the zero pressure high flow radiator. You can run the coolant by itself in low horsepower engines. With increased power you will need the increased flow of the pump and radiator.[HR][/HR]​This states that if your engine utilizes anything that increases power, that you need to use a Evans high flow pump and radiator? How do you know that a radiator and pump upgrade wont fix the problem without Evans?
Evans states that the flow must be increased to equal the convection rate of what already existed with water?


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

Hey, go to bed, would yah?........... Errm, NO, that hasn't been said to me for 30 years. 

But, have you seen that stuff over there? .......... No we don't have it here.


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## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Counter points included in orig. post...


> Why do they boast that there coolant is "Propylene Glycol"? So what!? Some of the gennaric green stuff is propylene glycol based.
> -----I don't think that they are stating that their mix is completely unlike any other, they do say that it is PG based, but this does not mean that it is therefore the same...
> So there web site is fancy, does that mean it must be true? I am a true non-beliver when it comes to this stuff. I't probably works just as well as regular coolant mix.
> -----Your statement is not very empirical, is it? And if we were to live with probablys, well, we wouldn't be driving cars, would we? "Probably blow yurself up, boy..."
> ...


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## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Points in orig. post...


> I said normal green coolant had a boiling point _close_ to Evans. Pure EG has a boiling point of about 350 degrees F, which is still way above the engine melt down temp.
> -----What is the engine melt-down point?
> I did not drop out of chemistry class and would never imply someone did as an effort to put someone down. My comments are harsh but are rarely directed at a person’s character. If you want to get your point across do it with facts.
> -----Apparently you do not remember the thread that you took your favorite quote from... If I recall, you said something like you wished that people would get their facts together before pulling things from their arse. You said this after responding to my post. I called you on it. You responded that you were talking generally. Methinks you are waffling.... You do make personal comments, and I find them offensive...
> ...


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## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Responses in orig. post...


> F - I do not wish to speak to you privately. So far I have posted several articles that shoots down that propylene glycol is something special worthy of a $40 purchase.
> -----So the fyuk what?! That is not what I have asked for, is it? And read evans site again, it is *$25* a bottle, not $40.
> Evans is 100% PG and so is generic $8 a gallon RV antifreeze. If you have something to disprove what I have said than post it.
> Actually, you have just made a claim, you back it up. BTW, if you re-read their page, you will diprove it to yourself. It does not say 100% PG, if you find that somewhere in there, let us know. I do not remember seeing that at all...
> ...


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## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Responses inside orig. post...

quote:[HR][/HR]This is interesting...
Article from Circle Track magazine:
Next, we wanted to know what properties in Evans' non-aqueous propylene glycol make it special. In looking at the spec sheet, the first thing that pops out is the fact that its convection of heat transfer is one-third lower than that of water. With propylene glycol's low heat transfer characteristics, you would think the NPG would not be able to get the heat out of the engine. 
We asked Jack Evans about this point. He said, "We found that getting the heat out of the engine is based on flow, specific heat, and the characteristics of the fluid. We discovered that, by adjusting the flow, we could get a lot of the convection transfer rate back. We knew if we kept the pressure drop (Delta P) across the engine very low, we could get a lot of flow through the engine. When we do that, it brings back the convection transfer. 
The Evans NPG cooling system consists of the non-aqueous coolant, the high-volume NPG coolant pump, and the zero pressure high flow radiator. You can run the coolant by itself in low horsepower engines. With increased power you will need the increased flow of the pump and radiator.
This states that if your engine utilizes anything that increases power, that you need to use a Evans high flow pump and radiator? How do you know that a radiator and pump upgrade wont fix the problem without Evans?
Evans states that the flow must be increased to equal the convection rate of what already existed with water? 
[HR][/HR]​G, you're reading an old article. NPG+ is what they now sell, and it does not have these problems, nor these needs... Re-read the page...
David


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

Do you have anything useful to add? I seem to be the only one referring to any information about the properties of EG and PG. You are so interested about picking apart my post and writing back a snappy reply you have completely ignored the actual content of the thread. The only thing you have ever referenced was information from the vary site that wants to sell you the product. 

the facts are:
Evans claims power but has no dyno plot.
Evans has no spark knock signal chart
If Evans is 100% PG then so is $8 Peak RV antifreeze.
Evans states that modified engines require a high flow pump and radiator.
I cannot find one strait up comparison of NPG vs EG with a car that has a un-modified cooling system.


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## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

INside orig. posts....


> Do you have anything useful to add? I seem to be the only one referring to any information about the properties of EG and PG.
> -----That is you are the only one arguing against it *  WITHOUT ANY FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE  * . Read the heading, 'Evans Coolant experiences'. If you have nothing that fits in that topic, go away. Are you mental? Now, go away, will you?
> You are so interested about picking apart my post and writing back a snappy reply you have completely ignored the actual content of the thread.
> -----If you had something to actually add to the thread, I would give it more attention. This is the classic Straw-Man fallacy. Say that your opponent is X when he is not, and then defeat him on said qualtities. You are changing the topic, and then telling me that I am not responding to that topic. Look at the header, I started this thread, not you. You have attempted to change the thread; this is not a debate on whether or not Evans works, this is a thread about peoples experiences with it, *  good or bad  * , okay?!
> ...


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## dkveuro (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Well, I for one are/am, thoughly confused as to who said what !!! Okay girlz, break it up.... Listen.... The problem with a part water antifreeze is manifold...Evans has tried to reduce or eliminate these, and in MHO has done so quiet well.
Fact...Antifreeze is a POISON.
Fact...Antifreeze, like so many things in life, is a compromise.
Fact...Evens has sucsessfully developed a product that reduces the toxicity of coolant to animals/human when ingested...
Fact...The product is less likly to cause (ground water) pollution compared with conventional antifreeze's , when Bubba pours the stuff down the drain/creek/river/toilet etc....
Fact....You ain't no chemical engineers.(Before you screem, I ain't either!!!)
Evans is a product you buy or you don't buy. No one is holding a gun to your head to do so, although I'm sorely tempted...







.........
It seems that some people just like to be contrary.....
And another thing, why are these posts so abrassive ? If you don't think summat works, well okay, you stick with what you like, that is, after all, why there are so many different manufacturing companies making vehicles 'cose we all got different tastes/experience in life.
Me? I like to push the edges a bit to see if I can benefit from information . I AM using Evans and so far I have seen no problems. My feelings are, that with a zero pressure system the gaskets/hoses/pumps/ have a very easy life, ie, will last longer. Secondly the coolant is reportedly curing electrolosis corrosion in big rigs, a major problem on the life of cylinder liners in et all diesel engines. Apparently(I have not tested this yet..) Evans does not charge up electrically so usual corrosion is eliminated. Then there's the impact in the enviroment, the life of the coolant reduces the dumping of coolant into our ecosystem/enviroment by products that require changing on a more frequent basis.....anyone againt that ?
The life of hoses and other pressure impacted parts of the cooling system are reduced, remember the exploding heater cores in Golfs/Rabbits etc a little while ago, wouldn't have happened with a zero pressure system, plus, you won't get burned when you open the cap on a hot engine with Evans or have burst hoses washing down the highway, more enviromental pollution. Ever wonder how many gallons of antifreeze is dumped on the worlds highways every year from wrecks/burst hoses, failed water pump gland seals etc ? Oh, and another thing, this stuff is being used at some airports for de-icing fluid, anyone here fly ?
Well that's my take, so you do what you want and I'll do what I find works and I'll update you all if the test I shall do in the future on Evans are interesting enough to post...bye dk


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (dkveuro)*

F - It's right on the performance page.
"Evans NPG Coolant is 100% inhibited Propylene Glycol. It can maintain substantially vapor free, liquid - to - metal contact at all coolant temperature and engine loads...ect" 
Article from Circle Track magazine:
"Next, we wanted to know what properties in Evans' non-aqueous propylene glycol make it special. In looking at the spec sheet, the first thing that pops out is the fact that its *convection of heat transfer is one-third lower than that of water *. With propylene glycol's low heat transfer characteristics, you would think the *NPG* would not be able to get the heat out of the engine. 
We asked Jack Evans about this point. He said, "We found that getting the heat out of the engine is based on flow, specific heat, and the characteristics of the fluid. We discovered that, *by adjusting the flow, we could get a lot of the convection transfer rate back *. We knew if we kept the pressure drop (Delta P) across the engine very low, we could get a lot of flow through the engine. When we do that, it brings back the convection transfer. 
The Evans NPG cooling system consists of the non-aqueous coolant, the *high-volume NPG coolant pump, and the zero pressure high flow radiator*. You can run the coolant by itself in low horsepower engines. With increased power you will need the increased flow of the pump and radiator.
Would you concider a 16V with 12:1 comp making 1.3 HP per CI low horsepower?
Sounds clear to me.
Yeah yeah, I have not used it... So how about you put together a 12:1 2.0L engine without a knock sensor, run 93 and you let us know how that works out for you. I will not be the first to try this, so how about you do it. You are not going to find someone who went through all that work just to rely on coolant alone.

What are you so angry about anyway? Just because I think Evans (on it's own) will not save your engine from detonation when running 12:1 on crap pump gas? What is wrong with that statement? Because that's all this is about. 
PS. What does "yes...and?" mean? I don't understand why you write this as a response. 
dkveuro,
We are wondering if it can reduce knock? That’s the big question on everyone’s mind.



[Modified by gearhead455, 5:13 AM 7-24-2002]


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## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Look inside orig post


> F - It's right on the performance page.
> "Evans NPG Coolant is 100% inhibited Propylene Glycol. It can maintain substantially vapor free, liquid - to - metal contact at all coolant temperature and engine loads...ect"
> -----Fair enough. I shall call them and ask why they use the word 'inhibited'. Also, do you know for a fact that that is what Peak RV is?
> Would you concider a 16V with 12:1 comp making 1.3 HP per CI low horsepower?
> ...


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Would you consider a 16V with 12:1 comp making 1.3 HP per CI low horsepower?
Sounds clear to me.
-----What are you talking about?
[HR][/HR]​Evans states that a high horsepower application requires an enhanced pump and radiator. So it's an unfair comparison against a stock EG 50/50 system.
quote:[HR][/HR]12 to 1 compression I was not planning, but I might do it anyways, just to irritate you... [HR][/HR]​Irritate away!







Use Evans while you’re at it... I am desperate for some real comparison vs. EG / ignition timing / fuel. So far I have been disappointed with the lack of hard data on Evans site. Without that, it's just a bunch of technical spin. 
Treat yourself to 100 unleaded, if anything it's worth it just for the smell!


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Mmmm, 100 octane, smells very very groovy. 
Alrighty then, we've got a big debate, but we've got no more first hand experiences with EVANs. Dammit anyway, I wanna like this stuff, I want it do what it claims, but there are too many "red flags" for my personal liking......


----------



## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (Andrew Stauffer)*

I wanna like it and use it too. Maybe you guys should pump Art.Clemens for more info since he has used it.


----------



## dkveuro (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Does it (Evans Coolant.) reduce pre-ignition? The industry name for this is, Autoignition... Well, first we have to understand what pre-ignition is. Anyone here a Thermodynamisist ? No? Oh, then I am singularly on my own here...! 
Well, shall we begin ? Detonation of a fuel/air mixture is unwanted.
Controlled BURN is the name of the game. Imagin a circle of flat writting paper, set light to it at one point, this is the spark plug ignition point, a smooth burn all the way across is the ideal untill the paper is all burnt. However some variables are thrown in on this process which do not allow the burn to complete ideally.
Air fuel ratio.
Fuel composition.
Water-vapor content.
Residual gas content.
Any of these, less than ideal, throw off the burn. But, lets assume the F/A ratio is ideal and everything is hunky dory......What else would cause pre-ignition as far as the coolant is concerned ?
Let's see....An industry standard for coolant medim heat transfere is 20 Degrees rise in coolant temperature , so a coolant at 180 degrees will have an allowable rise to 200 degrees after it has picked up heat from the engine. This is fine for H2O, but if higher temperatures are encountered this becomes a problem. Faster flow does not result in more heat transfere to the coolant, it causes a boundry layer stagnation due to surface contact drag. This can cause heat to tranfere to the boundry layer coolant and initiate localized over loading of coolant medium properties, and, in extreem cases, a flash or steam pocket to form and reduction in surface contact and thus heat tranfere to the coolant, as the steam pocket acts as a heat dam. This can and does premote hot spots in the engine which, in turn, will result in pre-ignition, sometimes....I say sometimes, as other factors need to be in place to promote pre-ignition.
Now let's surmise that Evans removes heat at only 3/4 of a water/antifreeze , which is actually poorer than pure water at this job. Evans has a flash off to vapor of 375 degrees. We understand water/antifreeze will do the same at 260 degrees.
This means that Evans has a 115 degree margin. So, Evans will do the job with reserve. In an ideal world this alone would be enough to use Evans. Thing is, coolant, if stable, will remove heat at a faster rate as the temperature of the engine rises, this means that the heat transfere differential of the coolant to ambient increases and so the efficientcy of the coolant increases with a temperature rise. However, the limit for water/antifreeze, even under pressure is limited at 260, and we all have experienced a boil over, GAME OVER !!! 
Evans on the other hand is still transfereing heat at this temperature and will continue to do so for another 115 degrees, all the while removing more heat per degree rise, ie, transfering more calorific value per degree for each amplitude in temperature. This is a degree of safety, which I for one am pleased about.
Now, someone said a FIRE PUMP would ignite tinder to start a fire. Well if this theory is applied to a IC engine, even at cranking, we'd get pre-ignition. So, this is not a good reasoning to to explain PI. The limit of an engine to PI is usually it's design and available fuel. 93 octane will stand a imep of aprox' 180 psi. at a density of 0.80, which is usual induction efficiency of our engine. To increase this tolerence C/R needs to be lowered, ie, turbo engines. PI is also started by local carbon deposits/sparkplug grade and sharp edges in the combustion area.
Supposing the combustion chamber is clean with no sharp edges or hot s/plugs the efficiency of the coolant becomes a significant player in temperature control. 
This does not mean coolant has the last say over PI. The time fuel is in the combustion chamber is the critical measure of the propensity for it to PI. At very high speeds the time for burn is so short, the mixture would not burn if it was not for the spark . I refere to the turbo charged F1 engines running 42 to 45 inches of boost at 12000 rpm. It has been established that a surface temperature of 1600 F is required to make the fuel ignite if inlet air temperature is 200F.....This is very high, so we can conclude for PI to occure there is an ignition point in the combustion chamber, a glowing deposit or partical, this can also be the remains of exhaust gas too!! Coolant in this case is of no concequence. So why use a higher boil point coolant. Magin of tolerence. Plus, no corrosion. Plus, no coolant jacket deposits reducing heat transfere to the coolant. Low/zero pressure, with less strain on coolant hoses. Yesterday I ran an engine with a coolant temp of 278 degrees and the engine did not detonate. This temperature for Antifreeze mix would have already caused problems. My presumption is that hot spots premote carbon deposits to form which in turn glow after spark ignition events and incoming fuel now has an ignition point other than the spark plug. Keeping the engine temperature controlled reduces the carbon deposit problem and thus reduces PI.
If this indeed is true, then with knock control more work can be gotten from the engine at operating temperatures we are used to. This is a work in progress,







so excuse the deliberate lack of conclution for now. I feel though, Evans helps control temperature and corrosion way better than conventional coolants.
Chrome don't get you home.....


----------



## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (dkveuro)*

What's your compression, ignition system, displacement, fuel octane and so on. 
This my experience with a stock cooling system and is in NO way flaming Evans.
I'll run my engine up to operating temperature, then run a full 0-80mph pass on nitrous oxide on a 10:1 motor with no knock sensor and the temp never reaches above 200 degrees. The cooling system is completely stock 50/50 EG, with a stock thermostat and fan switch. I run a cold BP8ES NGK plug, 80 HP shot, 6 degrees BTDC and mix 25% toluene with 94 Sunoco (a tad more than 100 octane). Functioning cooling system + good fuel + proper ignition timing = no knock.
The fact that the cooling system in your car reached 278 degrees with Evans makes me not want the stuff more than ever. Even if the engine did not detonate at (if you have a knock box you will never know for sure anyway) 278 degrees, that sustained temperature is no good for any of the components of your engine, especially anything made from rubber. The oil temperature would be sky high, and the expansion of metal parts in the engine would be greater than ever intended. My $.02



[Modified by gearhead455, 3:45 PM 7-25-2002]


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (dkveuro)*

Do you work for Evans by any chance?


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (A1Rocco)*

hi folks, 
I experimented with plumbing up my coolant system non pressurized back in 95 or so and using Sierra PG coolant. It did help decrease knock sensitivity a bit, but i couldn't locate a smaller water pump pulley to up the flow. Sierra does have a 370F boiling point. I verified this by gauge over a stove. One thing - the stuff is utterly flammable at those temps - this was verified by my stove experiment catching on fire - not a good thing! 
The existing system has to be totally purged of all water. The bleed tube from the overflow tank also releases vapours that remind me of a waffle - is that something you can live with? You also have to ditch the stock oil/water coolant exchanger...for obvious reasons... over all temps will be hotter as well (at least was on my Cabby back then)..
just my $.02 worth...
regards,
Peter Tong


----------



## dkveuro (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

First, NO! ...I do not work for Evans.
Secondly...You where there ?
Don't jump in with suppositions Gearhead. I was cooking out the residual water in the system if you must know, with the radiator fan fuse pulled. Good grief, is it a sin for someone to express their findings now, or are you always so abrasive ? I couldn't care any less than I do now about your attempt to scrap you engine in the quarter...but what I do object to is some one with out a clue as to what I'm doing or why, butting inn with some jerk off reaction as to ''....I def' wont use that stuff now...and...what's that temperature doing to your engine... etc..!!!...''
You obviously have zero comprehension of thermodynamic maps within a running engine as you would not have made such a brainless statement to my post. When you realise that an exhaust valve head is operating at 900 degrees F and cylinder wall temperatures are close ot 1000 degrees F at the surface molecular level,( that is the first few microns of surface metal.) That exhaust gas temperatures are usually at 1400 degrees F to 1850 degrees F, your worry about piddily 275 degrees F is pathetic in the overall picture of things..especially when using a 375 F boiling point fluid. When you get back from the tight brown room your head is obviously in right now, I'd be happy to enlighten you about the temperature problems encountered in IC engines and course and effect in the cure of same...However, I suspect that your next post will be some diatribe of little imagination and even less information. Why don't you surprise us ?








Gentlemen, I bid you all a fond, goodnight. dk


----------



## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

The fact that the cooling system in your car reached 278 degrees with Evans makes me not want the stuff more than ever.
-----Man, do you have no concept of when your emotions step in, and reasoning goes away? And don't give me that ' I am just being logical' crap! Logic is a tool, it does not give direction without the emotional impetus to lead it!








Even if the engine did not detonate at (if you have a knock box you will never know for sure anyway) 278 degrees, that sustained temperature is no good for any of the components of your engine, especially anything made from rubber. 
-----Specifically, why?
The oil temperature would be sky high, and the expansion of metal parts in the engine would be greater than ever intended. My $.02
-----The oil temp would only be at an unsafe level if you were using the oil/water 'cooler, as it would carry the oil temp up with it, otherwise it will not rise that much more... As for metal expansion...?
David
'Reasoning it don't make it true'


[Modified by fahrvegnugen, 6:20 AM 7-26-2002]


----------



## 2035cc16v (May 18, 2000)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

keep discussing guys... btw there are other articles out there about how it works...and some vw specific examples (lurching to success)


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (2035cc16v)*

Come on now boys, healthy debate is good, lets not resort to name calling (lets leave that for the children), all things in life have their good points and bad points. This is an open forum for anyone to join in as they see fit, lets not take it all too seriously and keep up the debate in an adult like fashion.








I would appear that very few ppl have used Evans by the look of it so it can't be as clear cut as Evans would like to think.


----------



## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (dkveuro)*

WTF!!!!








What is so abrasive about my posts?! I stated that it's not a good idea to run a engine at 278 degrees and that's abrasive! If Evans makes my car run hotter, I don't want it. THATS ME, NOT YOU. I also stated my aggressive set up of my car with normal coolant and it runs fine without detonation. What's wrong with that?
I have worked at a dealer and know first hand what COOLANT temperature it take to damage an engine. According to the data log history of the car, you can find the last recorded temperature before it seized up. I have found that some cars that had run out of coolant, the last recorded temperature was in the 280 degree range just before damage. I know this because most PCM's will set CT sensor codes above 250 degrees in history. I have seen heads crack and warp at that temperature. So why is it so hard to digest that I don't think running your vehicle at that temp is a good idea?
THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF ABRASIVE:
"some jerk off reaction" 
"I def' wont use that stuff now...and...what's that temperature doing to your engine... etc"
"brainless statement"
"I suspect that your next post will be some diatribe of little imagination and even less information"

I don't disserve this! I have not once started name calling anyone on this thread and have never been angry at anyone until now. I have stated some opinions and some experiences and instead of a counter point all I receive is a barrage of childish name calling! I will not stoop to this level.
BTW You still have not stated your displacement, compression, ignition and fuel. I would just like to know because you state that this stuff works and I would like to know your application.
quote:[HR][/HR]The fact that the cooling system in your car reached 278 degrees with Evans makes me not want the stuff more than ever.
-----"Man, do you have no concept of when your emotions step in, and reasoning goes away? And don't give me that ' I am just being logical' crap! Logic is a tool, it does not give direction without the emotional impetus to lead it!"[HR][/HR]​If my vehicle reaches a higher temp with Evans, *I* don't want to use it. You interpret it any way you want. It sounds like a simple statement without "emotional impetus" or whatever you think it is.







BTW, You are starting to scare me... 




[Modified by gearhead455, 7:32 PM 7-26-2002]


----------



## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (2035cc16v)*

quote:[HR][/HR]keep discussing guys... btw there are other articles out there about how it works...and some vw specific examples (lurching to success)[HR][/HR]​
I am a skeptic to that article and I'll tell you why. (Please just an observation, don't beat me up!) The article mentioned that an upgraded cooling system was used. Such things as overdrive pulley on the water pump, upgraded radiator and a modified head gasket. The article concluded that Evans saved there engine from detonation but never bothered to test 50/50 EG in the same modified system. If you are going to make claims like that wouldn’t it be prudent to do a strait up comparison? Also wouldn’t the article be kind of biased since Evans did pay for the cooling system modifications? (I’m not saying they are but just think about it)



[Modified by gearhead455, 8:42 PM 7-26-2002]


----------



## dkveuro (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Gearhead....GM, the company you work for did quantative tests on a certain Corvair in the 60's. They found head temperatures reached 550 F under NORMAL hiway running. This, dear boy, was an air cooled motor.
History Logs in your GM products record last pre key off temperatures. However, the CTS does not record steam temperatures which will be around 400F + degrees. The CTS requires immersion to produce a sensor signal to the ECM. When the sensor becomes uncovered by the coolant boil off, it no longer produces readings consistant with the prevailing local temperature.............
You other point about Knock Sensors....How do you know there's no knock being produced without a knock map recorder ? The high frequency of knock cannot often be decerned by the drive, as confirmed by tests by Champion Plugs, who monitored driver responce to missfire/knock, and found that a driver will not detect 1 missed power pulse out of 7.
Next point.....Heat damage to an engine is real if there is no coolant to transfere the heat to the radiator, even at 278F my engine was doing this, however your experience of damage to engines is conditional. The engines suffered temperature related failure because they had previously discharged the cooling medium and a heat damm in the coolant jacket contined to allow the engine to produce heat that was not convected. The temperatures so reached and head cracking you have seen was not caused by 250F or even 300F temperatures. The local heat in those motors would have to exseed 600F to begine to cause siezure and metal failure.
Remember, the air colled Corvair/T1 VW bug, theses all rely on air draft cooling. I have measured 590F head temperatures on Bug motors after a quick blast down the highway....Oil will start to deterioate at 280F admited but whilst it continues to flow the temperature is convayed to the cooler. That same T1 Bug had an oil temperature of 215 degrees at the oil filter housing....I build mine with an external oil filter system. Sorry, your prognosis is not valid.
Next point....Volitility...so you've found a way to reduce the volotility of gasoline.?? If you are worried about fire hazards, maybe you should run a battery operated car ! Of course this Evans coolant is flamable, so is polypropolene rope !!!! The hazard existant from coolant is minor compared to the highly volotile gasoline which is also being supplied to a heat souce by 80 psi PRESSURE!!!!! I presume you travel around with more that a gallon of this stuff in the gas tank ???To say nothing of the fuel accumalator which has a cup full of gasoline ready to discharge should a leak occure, also at 80 psi !
With regards to your engine suffering damage at 278F, how do you suppose VW aircoolleds stay functioning, Mmmmmm ? I notice you ommited to include my comments about 900F exhaust valve heads, How do you explain that?







I recommend you go visit a reputable book store and buy/read ''The Internal-Combustion Engine in Theory and Practice.'' by C.F. Taylor. Produced by M.I.T Press. Volume 1 and 2. Then come back and refute my findings.........
Good day...........dk
Chrome don't get you home.


----------



## dkveuro (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

And to continue......You comments ARE abrasive....! Plus....the EVANS COOLANT we are talking about now is, NPG+, a 'drop in' coolant, not requiring any pump or radiator modifications. With the origonal pressure cap, the system will produce around 4 psi coolant pressure instead of your Rabbit's 15 psi....no reverse flow is required and temperatures are a few degrees lower if nothing else, other than the coolant is changed, for any given event.......All these other comments you made about Evans where historic, like your ECM codes !!! Let's get up to date. son ! Ye gods, I bet your a real party guy at the drag strip.....!








Let's shoot down your other opinion about temperature on coolant hoses.....the coolant hoses in a lot of vehicles are subject to under hood temperatures of 300F + when the vehicle is operating and after shut down. Hoses nowadays are made of a material that can withstand 400F continually, and this goes for crank seals, valve cover gaskets (Cork !) and other flexible items in an engine. Many times I've seen plastic header tanks on radiators unaffected by conditions that caused the engine to fail.
Now my final observations.......
Gearhead....I have reread my posts to you, but fail to see any name calling...I do see some observations of fact and make a general coment on a condition I see, however, I reiterate...I have not called you names...you are way too sensitive, name calling would be using these ...........Idiot. Pillock. Fool. Stupid. Moron. Jerk. and other costic terms in the personal directive. Being as my comments where on the opinions of the writer rather than on the person, I fail to see why you are of the opinion this reflects on you mental interlect....
You are somewhat misinformed about things and like so many others I have met, trot out parrot like, things you have read or heard, without the benefit of empirical testing results. What is more sad is you have not investigated phenomena and it's cause to futher your understanding of 'cause and effect.' Unless you can participate in a tests, observe first hand, authoritively quote something with other back up test results, you are going to be like those who first took ''cold fusion'' as a fact.
Don't feel to bad, it took me a l-o-n-g time to not open my mouth about things I thought I knew without the benifit of first hand experience/knowledge. I have over my many years availed myself of tests,studies, trials, etc to see if what I think would work, actually did. 
You might do the same.....








dk
P.S...." WTF" is tantermount to using obsene language...and you object to me saying your abrasive !


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (dkveuro)*

quote:[HR][/HR] butting inn with some jerk off reaction as to ''....I def' wont use that stuff now...and...
When you get back from the tight brown room your head is obviously in right now, [HR][/HR]​That was said by you, a personal insult if ever i heard one, you even listed jerk in your defence sayin that would be name calling. 
Tut tut. 
Lets just keep it to technical stuff, the childish remarks cloud the debate, although i do find it funny.


----------



## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (dkveuro)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Remember, the air colled Corvair/T1 VW bug, theses all rely on air draft cooling. I have measured 590F head temperatures on Bug motors after a quick blast down the highway.....[HR][/HR]​Remember air-cooled engines use a piston to cylinder clearance 1 - 1.5 times larger than water-cooled. I really don't need to explain expansion rates because you are a thermo dynamist, so I won't bother. (1.8L air-cooled vs. 1.8L water-cooled).
As far as me being the one out of line... refer to Vdubs post, it says it all.
Operating the engine above it's intended operating range is never a good idea, you will be ill pressed to convince me otherwise. So air-cooled engines where designed to run at 500+ degrees... So what, my water-cooled is not designed to see 500 degrees, only 220. Apples and Oranges.
BTW, what engine displacement, compression...... Third times the charm I suppose.


----------



## dkveuro (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (Vdubs)*

N


> butting inn with some jerk off reaction as to ''....I def' wont use that stuff now...and...
> _____________________________________________________
> Okay, john, knock it off me ol' china.....'' ..jerk off reaction...'' is a descriptive
> term, not a noun.
> ...


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (dkveuro)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
So, as an old Harrow boy [HR][/HR]​Sometimes somebody says something that totally destroys their credability.
Feel free to correct my english. Harrow boy lol

























[Modified by Vdubs, 2:51 AM 7-27-2002]


----------



## dkveuro (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Okay...HEAR YE, HEAR YE. 
An announcment on the i.c engine ......
Aircooled, an engine designed to be cooled by an onboard high displacement fan, air control ducting. IE, no intermediate cooling media.
Tolerances for piston/cylinder clearence/oil gap.
Porsche 911,cylinder new = 0.033mm/0.001''........how many Chebbies you built with piston to cylinder that tight, Gearhead....!?
I do wish you'd do a little research before you write about something that was never true to start with.....The MBZ' and Audi engines I build have a piston to wall clearence of 0.0007''. (That's ...seven tenths of one thousanths..) and no, I have yet to sieze one, Bug/Porsche or Wabbit.
......bye...


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## dkveuro (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (Vdubs)*

Hey Vdubs.....
Your mum know your up?










[Modified by dkveuro, 9:04 PM 7-26-2002]


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (dkveuro)*

I very much doubt it, but don't you tell her or I wont be allowed on here any more.


----------



## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*



> WTF!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (dkveuro)*

What is a chebbie? OH! You mean Chevy’s! 
Stop it man you’re splitting my sides.








I have not built any "chebbies". My water-cooled VW 1.8 is built to .025mm, still tighter than the 911. I suppose all the VW engineers went loose on the air-cooled spec because they like the sound of piston slap?
So anyway, I have asked 4 times now: You still have not stated your displacement, compression, ignition and fuel. I would just like to know because you state that this stuff works and I would like to know your application.
Sounds like you are dodging the question.


----------



## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

So anyway, I have asked 4 times now: You still have not stated your displacement, compression, ignition and fuel. I would just like to know because you state that this stuff works and I would like to know your application.
Sounds like you are dodging the question.
-----Gear, I am stepping in here, just for a moment... Have you ever taken Psychology? There is a small neurotic tic I have noticed that you appear to exhibit--- Projection, also know as 'Pot calling the Kettle Blackism'. You say he has yet to respond, and yet are guilty of the same misdirection. Did you mention that you were wrong about the piston to cylinder gap, water-cooled to air-cooled? No... Did you mention that you were wrong about coolant temp, that it does and can exceed 250+? No... If I were dkveuro, why would I want to offer those facts if you can't even admit that you were wrong/mistaken/upset/drunk/all of the above? (BTW, that is not name calling, incase you were wondering







) Play fair, and your neighbors will play fair with you, dear boy. And notice, not once did I say this in my outside voice (ie LIKE THIS!). You are obviously intelligent Gear, but you have to allow us the chance to show you that we are as well....
David 
BTW, what is with the crack about 'engineers enjoy the sound of piston-slap'? Is that not 'abrasive'? Or 'mine is better that yours'-ism? If it is not, then I am in error...



[Modified by fahrvegnugen, 7:14 AM 7-27-2002]


----------



## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

<Edit>


[Modified by gearhead455, 4:07 PM 7-27-2002]


----------



## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

<edit>

I had an answer back but I am tired of this, 
Goodbye from your favorite neurotic, Jerk, brainless, dropout.
Sincerely,
Mr. WTF



[Modified by gearhead455, 4:18 PM 7-27-2002]


----------



## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

I had an answer back but I am tired of this, 
Goodbye from your favorite neurotic, Jerk, brainless, dropout.
Sincerely,
Mr. WTF
Nothing personal, but do me a favor in the future: Please do not respond to my posts, or to folks who respond to me. It is now obvious to me that you and I are on such completely different wavelengths that we will never get along. With that in mind, please give me a large berth, alright? Your understanding in this area is greatly appreciated.....

Thanks for the help, but *no thanks!* 
David


----------



## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

I can post to anyone or anybody I choose.







None of this has to do with you or anyone who "responds to you". I have never attacked you personally, unlike the things you have said to me (neurotic ... ect). I only respond to what you have written with my views and could care less about you "personally". You make offensive comments targeting my accomplishments (ASE, ASAP, education) and you frequently call me names. I on the other hand have no opinion on who you are, what you do, or your education level. If somene make a solid statement on this forum against your veiw, you must not take it so personally. A lot of people have shot me down with somthing that was just to hard to dispute, I never once thought anyone wat trying to "make me look foolish".

If you think I'm out to get you, and stalk down all of your posts you are wrong, that's something in your own head.


----------



## rough_8v (Mar 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Yeah, but you are still a dick-end. G'night, Gramps!


----------



## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Look for more exciting drivle inside...








I can post to anyone or anybody I choose.







None of this has to do with you or anyone who "responds to you". I have never attacked you personally, unlike the things you have said to me (neurotic ... ect).
-----Oh give me a break... You're no victim... And let's be clear, I put ' I think' in front of that, which means I have not called you neurotic, altough you are neurotic for typing that.







BTW, do you know how to type 'I think'? I have not seen those words come from your keyboard just yet. 
I only respond to what you have written with my views and could care less about you "personally". 
-----If you are only responding with your views, then write it as such! Again, " I think,", or "perhaps". When you post, you offer ideas that are from your experience as if they are hard, fast laws of automotive engineering. You need to understand my hostility comes from the fact that you do not seem to know the difference... "Well, I worked at a dealership for XXX---", as if all dealrship mechanics have a clue once they put on that uniform. BTW, guess where I work? At a dealership. And most of the guys there I would not trust to do the work on my car. So, once again, "Facts know no authority" seems to fit. BTW, you sure that you are not trying to make me mad? By putting that qoute in you sig.?








You make offensive comments targeting my accomplishments (ASE, ASAP, education) and you frequently call me names. 
-----I have never called you a name. Offensive comments, perhaps. But, if I am supposed to harden up, the least you could do is do the same...








I on the other hand have no opinion on who you are, what you do, or your education level. 
-----You are lying know. If I worked for VWoA, and told you that I had done some testing on this product and found it to work, you would be posting my experience and my credentials all over this site! (esp if I proved the viability of the product to you). You are all about credentials, and authoritative resources. It is who you are... 
If somene make a solid statement on this forum against your veiw, you must not take it so personally. A lot of people have shot me down with somthing that was just to hard to dispute, I never once thought anyone wat trying to "make me look foolish".
-----You all will notice that even here he can't say that he 'was wrong'. Or 'might have been wrong'. Jesus, how do you fit your head in that Rabbit of yours?







Solid statment, shmolid sphatement. * THIS WAS A REQUEST FOR EXPERIENCE *, or did you forget that argument so soon? You step in where you are not appreciated, and yes you can post where you like, but get into that flame-safe box there buddy, 'cuz each time you can't read, I will remind you.









If you think I'm out to get you, and stalk down all of your posts you are wrong, that's something in your own head.
-----No, I don't think that, but I am begining to. I asked that so that we could drop this crap, and get on with what I asked for, FROM SOMEBODY ELSE? I asked that in an attempt to make peace and move on. Do you have a problem with that? You let me worry about my head, as I think that you should begin to worry about you own...








Let it die.
David


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## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (parz8v)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Yeah, but you are still a dick-end. G'night, Gramps![HR][/HR]​Oh look, another one of your fans! 
Yu tellum, Jimmie!


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## rough_8v (Mar 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

Let it die? No ****ing chance. Lets turn it into a good old-fashioned gypsy fight, bare knuckles, bike chain down the sock for later. Let's see the hilti gun fight!


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## dkveuro (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Dear Mr Gearhead....
I am so sorry you find it difficult to understand my humor.....I appologize if you are offended. The 'Farfagnugen' guy is right however and the problem here is you seem to disallow yourself usefull information, and yes, although new to this group, I have taken the time to read other posts you have authored. 
You said your engine in your Rabbit is built with 0.025 mm clearence piston/cylinder, of course, being an engineer you will know this is 0.001"inch....somewhat looser than my MBZ's and Audi engines at 0.0007''inch. , but what the hey.....look, the aircooled are not built loose, the piston properties account for tolerence at operating temperature.
Now, here's a little information for you to think about in your Rabbit, next time you bore it, for racing use, yes, even drags, the piston should be loose in the bore cold, I would suggest 0.0025''inch for you with a zero offset wrist pin in the piston. If there are no zero offset pistons, then turn your pistons around 180 degrees. Yes, you'll get a little noise, but you are racing ,yes, so things should be just about to break, because if you are not breaking things, you are not pushing it hard enough..... Also the use of file fit rings and close the compression ring end gaps to a tad under 0.006''inch, buy a 0.005 over set if you must to get them larger to file fit. You could pressure drill the pistons down to the first ring after you have ground out half the ring width to reduce ring tension or, buy pistons with the top ring 100th inch from the top to reduce exhaust/end gas contamination. Failing this, Total Seal second ring modification is a good way to increase usable piston work and reduce blow by. BTW, my aim is for below 2% leakdown on a new assembly, most come in below that with Total Seal rings. No, I don't work for them, but I've used them for 12 years. Call them, ask for Ed....1-800-674-2752.....He'll send you some literature.....
Why zero offset piston wrist pins ? Because this reduces the thrust loading ie, drag against the cylinder wall on the compression/power stroke.....
Compression ratio on yours should be 14 to 1 though, with the Tolulene and Sunco(?) fuel, especially if you keep the coolant readings at 160F. 
I also recommend you try Evans because the ability of the liquid to carry away heat from local hot spots that you have in a Alloy head around the exhaust boss and spark plug seat especially if you do the above.... You are using a distributorless crank fire system arn't you? 
For reduced drag in the engine a synthetic of 0W30 will work.
The best fuel power ratio is 0.9 on the Lamda scale.
If you ran a knock control you could bump the timing up and let the control take care of the timing too. Even on the motor your running 12 to 14 degrees btdc basic would be a good start with knock control. Most knock controls are capable of at least 9 degrees of retard in 3 degree steps back with a 1/2 degree forward per revolution. with an )2 in the system you could run a 0.930 vdc reading under load for max power, btw, Porsche runs 0.875 vdc on street vehicle non Lambda systems.

The engine with 278F the other day was a 1985 1.9 Vanagon....After the purge and top off, the coolant ran at 198f with a 190f thermostat. The fan kicked in at 185f like the switch low speed should, and I let it idle in 101F ambient for over an hour and there was no over heating and I recorded cylinder head water jacket temp's of 215f, at the same time the oil filter read 196f. This was with a zreo pressure cap and idle speed of 990 rpm and a fully functioning O2 system with a ignition basic of 11 degrees BTDC at 800 rpm with the idle stabalizer disabled. Should I have used a 170F BMW thermostat , no doubt the readings would have been cooler. This engine does not have a water/oil cooler. Compression is 8.5 to 1. On a run up the road, it seemed to operate well. with the coolant leak prevelent with a Vanagon engine and hoses difficult to find and very expencive, I think the use of this coolant is justified. Just one thing though, the weep hole/s in the coolant pump need sealed in case the zero pressure allows the pump to pull in air.
Tonight I am using it in a 1982 944 non turbo 'German Mkt' only, engine with 11.2 to 1 compression. I am hoping to get some feed back on this car as the owner is shipping it to Germany for his 5 year TDY, so it should get a squirt down the Autobahn at 130 plus, a few times.......I'll let you know what I find, if you wish...
My qualifications ??? Been in this industry for 45 years...ran a race team in England for three years, ran my own business in UK and now here, been in my own shop here in Oklahoma for 13 years......I really enjoy what I do.
ASE certified but not overly fond of these type of certifications, it really doen't mean much to me.....I read and research exstensively, and enjoy doing the 'impossible'......
Well that's about it, see you guys later....over and out. dk


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## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (dkveuro)*

Failing this, Total Seal second ring modification is a good way to increase usable piston work and reduce blow by. BTW, my aim is for below 2% leakdown on a new assembly, most come in below that with Total Seal rings. No, I don't work for them, but I've used them for 12 years. Call them, ask for Ed....1-800-674-2752.....He'll send you some literature.....
-----Aw man, you said the 'T' word. He HATES Total Seal....








That was our last argument/encounter..........'Total Seal experiences'--and yeah, I asked for experiences there too, and got more o' what I got here...
David


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## Fahrvergnugen (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

quote:[HR][/HR]<Edit>

[Modified by gearhead455, 4:07 PM 7-27-2002][HR][/HR]​Why the empty post? I got the email from you about the temp from the Saturn, and you said that you already responded to the aircooled piston/cylinder gap q. which you didn't respond to BTW. What is up?
David


[Modified by fahrvegnugen, 7:34 AM 7-28-2002]


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (dkveuro)*

I do not dissalow myself information, I just point out the holes. I have brought forth a list of four or five items why I am a skeptic (look back in the posts). I will need answers to these things, thats all.
My engine at this time is built on a budget, I even have cast pistons. The engine has been "blueprinted" to factory specs besides the balancing. This engine is sort of the "learning curve motor" for nitrous injection, how much can a cast piston take before meltdown??? I guess I will find out. The compression ratio is not safe to exceed 10:1 on the kind of shot that I will be running. Nate Remero ran a 1/4 mile record for a N/A rabbit running a non knock factory ignition, it will do just fine for me (on a buget). When I run nitrous, I need to know what the actual timing is without adjustment from a knock control. If I figure everything correctly it should be spot on. (even though it's more work to tune) 
If I had the money I would run stand alone FI with a turbocharger, forged pistons, and a crank trigger. Instead, I built a strong well built motor and spraying it all down with nitrous. It's "dirty" but should be quick for the $. 




[Modified by gearhead455, 1:52 AM 7-29-2002]


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (fahrvegnugen)*

I never sent you a E-MAIL about anything.
I have a comment but I am "letting it die" Per your request.


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## dkveuro (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (gearhead455)*

Hi, GH ....just what have you found to be a workable ignition timing curve ?
The cast piston will take a considerable ammount of abuse, I have run a T4 engine with a KKK ( Audi 5K turbo) at 19 psi boost with 6.25 to 1 compression and 28 degrees max timing with stock pistons.... The old bus ran out of speedo numbers and then roadway before it could stop accelerating ! Estimated around 115 mph when I aborted the run up the road.. Porsche 911 turbo spark plugs, no intercooler, and of course, no Evans ! Did run a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, found it needed 100 psi fuel pressure at 19 pounds of boost. AFC Bosch system.
Still think you'd do better with Evans and lower temperature stat' too.
What is your terminal speed through the quarter ? and at what rpm ?
What spark plugs are you using ? BTW, blue printing is okay for a street car, you need a looser piston set up for your car.(see my previous comments ..) Presume you use solid lifters too ?..........
dk
Chrome don't get you home.......!


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Evans Coolant experiences... (dkveuro)*

It's good to hear that the casties can take some abuse. My cast pistons are German made and not the Mexican ones...
On an 80 shot, it responds well to 6-8 degrees BTDC. 10 BTDC peppers the plugs slightly but they where stock heat range which may or may not have been the problem (fuel may have been an issue too). Since have gone 2 ranges colder and still playing with the timing. I just was able to get the fuel jets (n20) the correct size last weak. I should run the 1/4 mile by the end of August, (first attempt with this car). I am shooting for the 13-second range my first time out. Wishing for 12's with a 120HP shot by summer of next year. The head is Hydro







GTI (because that's what I had), I’m going to work on porting a solid head for next year. Maybe get Crower to grind me up a nitrous friendly cam. 
With the fan running all the time it stays cooler (185- 190 degrees).



[Modified by gearhead455, 4:21 AM 7-29-2002]


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