# I hate my Hawk HPS.



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Sorry to say it, but I am fed up with my Hawk HPS.
#1 - They make wayyyy too much noise during moderate braking on the street.
#2 - They aren't aggressive enough. I don't think I drive that aggressively most of the time either.
Basically I'm looking to swap out my front pads for something better. I have been doing hours of research and a few people mentioned that they were happy with Carbotech Bobcats. I want a pad that definitely has a higher coefficient of friction than the HPS pads and a higher fade resistance because I do a lot of fast highway driving(100mph+ frequently). 
The main gripe that I have with the HPS pads is the noise. I don't know what is causing it, but It is very annoying. My car sounds terrible.
Pads I have considered thus far:
Porterfield R4(might be too much of a track pad though








Porterfield R4-S
Carbotech Bobcats
Give me your honest opinions.


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## Jetta03 (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: I hate my Hawk HPS. (formerly silveratljetta)*

Weird that you have noise with the HPS. Mine are completely quiet, I've never heard so much as a squeek. Did you use the anti-squeal silicone on the backs of the pads?


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## Dirt road (Mar 11, 2003)

try adding some anti squeek goo to the back of the pads, did you change rotors at the same time? did you bed them in properly? I use Hawk HP+ in my rabbit, best pads ive used but squeeky at cold/low speeds(as with most aggresive pads)


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: I hate my Hawk HPS. (Jetta03)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jetta03* »_Weird that you have noise with the HPS. Mine are completely quiet, I've never heard so much as a squeek. Did you use the anti-squeal silicone on the backs of the pads?

yeah I put it on the back of the pads. Maybe I can take them out and put some more on. Is there a special kind of anti-squeak compound to use besides the cheap stuff they sell at autozone?
I can't even describe how bad the noise is under light breaking. It's not like it comes and goes, but it is always there. Once the pads get heated up after the first 2 stops they squeal like all hell.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

bump


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

My buddy said his porterfield R4-S are nice and despite being dusty they don't make any noise. How are the regular R4's?


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## [email protected] (Oct 7, 1999)

R4's are for the track only.
I'm running R4S' and they squeek from time to time. They don't dust TOO badly for what they are.
You sure you're not running the HP+'s I had those and they sounded like bus brakes. Buddy is running HPS and they don't make a noise.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_R4's are for the track only.
I'm running R4S' and they squeek from time to time. They don't dust TOO badly for what they are.
You sure you're not running the HP+'s I had those and they sounded like bus brakes. Buddy is running HPS and they don't make a noise.

I'm pretty sure they are HPS. That's what the box said. If they are HP+ I won't be going back because I have faded them during street driving.








I've heard some bad stuff about porterfields on the tex too. 
Carbotech seems to be fairly reliable for the street.


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## [email protected] (Oct 7, 1999)

Porterfields are pretty much the "standard" R32 brake pad upgrade. I've run them on my current car and our long-term A4 1.8T that we ran. Also getting ready to put them on our A3 3.2 so I'd take that "bad stuff" w/a grain of salt. The worse I've heard is either people wearing them down in two days at VIR which is notorious for killing pads or VERY rare the material separating b/c they are not riveting to the pad backing plate. 
I've only really gotten them to fade on track which is not surprising. You'll find WAY more positive than negatives about the Porterfields.
Having said that I'm going with either R4's on the front of my car or Carbotech XP8's or 10's for the track with Porterfields R4S' in the rear since those are basically along for the ride.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Porterfields are pretty much the "standard" R32 brake pad upgrade. I've run them on my current car and our long-term A4 1.8T that we ran. Also getting ready to put them on our A3 3.2 so I'd take that "bad stuff" w/a grain of salt. The worse I've heard is either people wearing them down in two days at VIR which is notorious for killing pads or VERY rare the material separating b/c they are not riveting to the pad backing plate. 
I've only really gotten them to fade on track which is not surprising. You'll find WAY more positive than negatives about the Porterfields.
Having said that I'm going with either R4's on the front of my car or Carbotech XP8's or 10's for the track with Porterfields R4S' in the rear since those are basically along for the ride.









ok. Thanks for the help.


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: (formerly silveratljetta)*

For a good street/AX pad I concur you will love the R4S even as a beginer and intermediate track pad they wear very very well and last a good long time. Once you get more advanced you burn them up pretty quickly. 
Case in point, my jetta has R4S front and rear (boxter 4 pot front calipers.) I used the car twice to instruct and went from 3/4 new pads to nearly toast at this point....but I am an instructor and really push my fat pig of a car pretty hard. The golf I run some serious pad so we wont get into that.
Oh and dave make sure those rears are nice and bedded, I didnt and mine lit on fire at vir!!!


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## collins_tc (Dec 19, 2000)

*Re: (jamesb)*

Very odd that you're having issues. As has been said, I would try re-bedding them. I run HPS for daily driving and they've never made a peep. On the other hand, I use HP+ or Blue 9012 for track days and they will be very loud for daily driving.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (collins_tc)*

I can use the instructions from stoptech and try to rebed them.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (formerly silveratljetta)*

My rear Hawk HPS's were squeaking like hell after a track day, but I just took the garden hose and sprayed the heck out of the rotors and caliper area, waited for the rotors to show some rust-spots, then did the stoptech bed-in procedure. No more squeaks.
I think its the brake-dust buildup on the edge of the pad which contributes to the vibration. Crack it off with a screwdriver and spray with the hose!


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_My rear Hawk HPS's were squeaking like hell after a track day, but I just took the garden hose and sprayed the heck out of the rotors and caliper area, waited for the rotors to show some rust-spots, then did the stoptech bed-in procedure. No more squeaks.
I think its the brake-dust buildup on the edge of the pad which contributes to the vibration. Crack it off with a screwdriver and spray with the hose!

you talking about the outside or inside edges?


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (formerly silveratljetta)*

The dust usually builds up on the trailing edge of the pad with respect to rotation so for front-axle that is the bottom edge of the pad and for the rear axle, thats the top edge of the pad.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: I hate my Hawk HPS. (formerly silveratljetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formerly silveratljetta* »_Sorry to say it, but I am fed up with my Hawk HPS.
#1 - They make wayyyy too much noise during moderate braking on the street.
#2 - They aren't aggressive enough. I don't think I drive that aggressively most of the time either ... I want a pad that definitely has a higher coefficient of friction than the HPS pads and a higher fade resistance because I do a lot of fast highway driving(100mph+ frequently). 

You don't need a anything more than OE equivalent pads - even if you "do a lot of fast highway driving" -- driving fast on a highway in no way taxes the brakes, even if you take every exit, and need to slam on the brakes from time to time to avoid traffic. If your car doesn't see the track (and I don't mean the drag strip) regularly, you simply don't need anything that offers you high temp fade resistance - really. A quality OE equivalent pad will give you more than you need (and yes, I've used Ferodo DS2000, DS2500, Porterfield R4S - all great pads, but since 99.9% of my driving is done on the street I'm using Pagid/ATE Front/Rear OE equivalent pads).
Edit:
The other advantage of OE eq pads is that they work - bite & modulation - from stop ONE on the street --- not many "sport" pads do this, and no RACE pads can even hope to do this.


_Modified by f1forkvr6 at 11:23 PM 10-16-2007_


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## Sigfod (May 26, 2006)

*Re: I hate my Hawk HPS. (formerly silveratljetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formerly silveratljetta* »_Sorry to say it, but I am fed up with my Hawk HPS.
#1 - They make wayyyy too much noise during moderate braking on the street.
#2 - They aren't aggressive enough. I don't think I drive that aggressively most of the time either.
Basically I'm looking to swap out my front pads for something better. I have been doing hours of research and a few people mentioned that they were happy with Carbotech Bobcats. I want a pad that definitely has a higher coefficient of friction than the HPS pads and a higher fade resistance because I do a lot of fast highway driving(100mph+ frequently). 
The main gripe that I have with the HPS pads is the noise. I don't know what is causing it, but It is very annoying. My car sounds terrible.
Pads I have considered thus far:
Porterfield R4(might be too much of a track pad though








Porterfield R4-S
Carbotech Bobcats
Give me your honest opinions.

Bobcats are LOUD as are XP8, and HP+ at least on my MKV they are. On the Sentra they are all quiet.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: I hate my Hawk HPS. (f1forkvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *f1forkvr6* »_
You don't need a anything more than OE equivalent pads - even if you "do a lot of fast highway driving" -- driving fast on a highway in no way taxes the brakes, even if you take every exit, and need to slam on the brakes from time to time to avoid traffic. If your car doesn't see the track (and I don't mean the drag strip) regularly, you simply don't need anything that offers you high temp fade resistance - really. A quality OE equivalent pad will give you more than you need (and yes, I've used Ferodo DS2000, DS2500, Porterfield R4S - all great pads, but since 99.9% of my driving is done on the street I'm using Pagid/ATE Front/Rear OE equivalent pads).
Edit:
The other advantage of OE eq pads is that they work - bite & modulation - from stop ONE on the street --- not many "sport" pads do this, and no RACE pads can even hope to do this.

_Modified by f1forkvr6 at 11:23 PM 10-16-2007_

Aftermarket pads that are better than OE equivalent have a higher coefficient of friction and therefore help you stop faster. That is what is important to me. Now if they didn't make noise that would be awesome.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: I hate my Hawk HPS. (formerly silveratljetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formerly silveratljetta* »_
Aftermarket pads that are better than OE equivalent have a higher coefficient of friction and therefore help you stop faster. That is what is important to me. Now if they didn't make noise that would be awesome.

Incorrect.

Higher cF brake pads does not mean stopping faster!!!!!!!
If you slam your brakes you can engage ABS with OEM!!! Any higher cF brake pad will also engage ABS. The only thing that will help you stop faster is higher cF tires.

Brake bias/balance is also important, so putting a higher cF pad on the front axle of a MlIV and keeping the rear axle OEM will stop you a little faster.
But when driving on the street, you don't actually want to stop faster in many cases otherwise the guy behind you will simply slam into you and **** your car up. What you want, is grippier tires that will allow you to TURN faster.
That is the whole point of ABS btw.
ABS stands for
*A*-ha
*B*rake
*S*teer

Many people forget that you can steer to avoid a collision MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH faster than slowing down in front of it.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: I hate my Hawk HPS. (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Incorrect.

Higher cF brake pads does not mean stopping faster!!!!!!!
If you slam your brakes you can engage ABS with OEM!!! Any higher cF brake pad will also engage ABS. The only thing that will help you stop faster is higher cF tires.

Brake bias/balance is also important, so putting a higher cF pad on the front axle of a MlIV and keeping the rear axle OEM will stop you a little faster.
But when driving on the street, you don't actually want to stop faster in many cases otherwise the guy behind you will simply slam into you and **** your car up. What you want, is grippier tires that will allow you to TURN faster.
That is the whole point of ABS btw.
ABS stands for
*A*-ha
*B*rake
*S*teer

Many people forget that you can steer to avoid a collision MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH faster than slowing down in front of it.

I don't know about you, but I would rather not hit the guy in front of me and get rear-ended than have to pay to fix someone elses car.
I'm running falken tires up front. I'm not sure how you feel about them?


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: I hate my Hawk HPS. (formerly silveratljetta)*

I think its better to avoid a collision entirely by turning rather than stopping. Yes folks will say that sometimes you have to stop. But you rarely get into those situations if you drive like you play poker: always leave yourself an "out"
BTW tire brand matters little - the specific rubber compound matters a lot. Summer for summer and winter for winter. All-season for mini-vans and chumps 










_Modified by phatvw at 12:24 AM 10-17-2007_


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## thecreeper (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: I hate my Hawk HPS. (f1forkvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *f1forkvr6* »_
You don't need a anything more than OE equivalent pads - even if you "do a lot of fast highway driving" -- driving fast on a highway in no way taxes the brakes, even if you take every exit, and need to slam on the brakes from time to time to avoid traffic. If your car doesn't see the track (and I don't mean the drag strip) regularly, you simply don't need anything that offers you high temp fade resistance - really. A quality OE equivalent pad will give you more than you need (and yes, I've used Ferodo DS2000, DS2500, Porterfield R4S - all great pads, but since 99.9% of my driving is done on the street I'm using Pagid/ATE Front/Rear OE equivalent pads).
Edit:
The other advantage of OE eq pads is that they work - bite & modulation - from stop ONE on the street --- not many "sport" pads do this, and no RACE pads can even hope to do this.

_Modified by f1forkvr6 at 11:23 PM 10-16-2007_

I agree...except I wouldn't really recommend Mintex Red Box (they are advertised as an OEM/slight upgrade type pad), I've found them to be worse than OEM. I wasn't happy with these pads from day one.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: I hate my Hawk HPS. (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_I think its better to avoid a collision entirely by turning rather than stopping. Yes folks will say that sometimes you have to stop. But you rarely get into those situations if you drive like you play poker: always leave yourself an "out"
BTW tire brand matters little - the specific rubber compound matters a lot. Summer for summer and winter for winter. All-season for mini-vans and chumps 









_Modified by phatvw at 12:24 AM 10-17-2007_

There's no winter in GA








I have been running falkens for the last 3 sets. Although they discontinued the ziex 512's which is the only reason I may switch brands.


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: I hate my Hawk HPS. (formerly silveratljetta)*

if you want a falken tire man up and get the rt-615's








yes the 512's have been discontinued but they have a tire that is going to replace it, the 712's i think...double check, but its replacement is already out.
personally i love falken tires, but only have rocked their rt-215/615's. both are excellent tires.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: I hate my Hawk HPS. (thecreeper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thecreeper* »_

I agree...except I wouldn't really recommend Mintex Red Box ... 

Neither would I - they're junk.


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## Willdue (Oct 14, 2007)

Go EBC man.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: (Willdue)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Willdue* »_Go EBC man.

Elaborate - why? Which compound? For what environments? How is the modulation? Cold bite? Dust? Rotor friendliness?


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## Willdue (Oct 14, 2007)

i had Green Stuff EBC pads, grab quick but not to quick, all around good pads for me, and i had them on my eclipse [heavier, and bigger tires]
The durst was not bad at all, and didt eat my rotors one bit


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: (Willdue)*

I didnt mind the greens, very very very good pad for the street and autocross. But VERY dusty and wore out quickly. I been thinking about EBC yellow for my jetta. Supposed to be the same as the R4S and the price I can get them for seems ok. But I am still not sure, I just like a good pad that has a nice cold grab but can handle some heat if I do take her on an instructing weekend.


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## a2gtinut (Dec 2, 1999)

*Re: I hate my Hawk HPS. (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Incorrect.

Higher cF brake pads does not mean stopping faster!!!!!!!
If you slam your brakes you can engage ABS with OEM!!! Any higher cF brake pad will also engage ABS. The only thing that will help you stop faster is higher cF tires.

Brake bias/balance is also important, so putting a higher cF pad on the front axle of a MlIV and keeping the rear axle OEM will stop you a little faster.
But when driving on the street, you don't actually want to stop faster in many cases otherwise the guy behind you will simply slam into you and **** your car up. What you want, is grippier tires that will allow you to TURN faster.
That is the whole point of ABS btw.
ABS stands for
*A*-ha
*B*rake
*S*teer

Many people forget that you can steer to avoid a collision MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH faster than slowing down in front of it.

you are correct sir.
all the people that say " i do fast street driving and my OE pads and others are not good enough" just do not know what they are talking about.
If OE pads are good enough for autobahn then they are fine for slow US highways.
I drove many cars on autobahn at 130+mph and was able to slow down without any drama.


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## jermarlang (Mar 26, 2000)

*Re: I hate my Hawk HPS. (a2gtinut)*

I have Bobcats on the rear of my Jetta VR6. They are great. No noise, much better wear than stock pads.[street only] I bought them with slotted rotors, so wear is very good. A bit more expensive than most pads.


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## rocco2gti (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I've had the R4S's for about 6 months now, which included 6 Auto-X events, and some *ahem* spirited street driving (professional driver on a closed course. Do not try this at home). I don't like them very much. I've NEVER had them fade. Panic type stops from 80 and they feel great. I find they take tons of heat to really work well, though. The first half of an Auto-x run isn't great with these pads. I've heard that EBC Green Stuff pads are excellent, and I've been cars with them. They seem very good. Good Luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Evan


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: (rocco2gti)*

Well for one thing I never liked the R4S on a sloted rotor, solid rotor felt much much better. As for AX, yes that first run they could be a little cold and not stop as well but its never been my issue with putting down a good time my first run. In 4 years of AX I had done my first run was never my fastest.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

I installed a tyrolsport brake caliper stiffening kit and the noise is virtually nonexistent now. What could have changed so drastically?


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (formerly silveratljetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formerly silveratljetta* »_I installed a tyrolsport brake caliper stiffening kit and the noise is virtually nonexistent now. What could have changed so drastically?

The solid bushing changes the way the whole assembly is allowed to vibrate. The vibration is still there, but probably at a different frequency and magnitude, so you don't notice it.
Note that the tyrolsport bushings won't eliminate noise for everybody - they may even add noise for some folks. Its all about the physical properties of all the pieces involved: weight of rotor, weight of pads, etc etc.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
The solid bushing changes the way the whole assembly is allowed to vibrate. The vibration is still there, but probably at a different frequency and magnitude, so you don't notice it.
Note that the tyrolsport bushings won't eliminate noise for everybody - they may even add noise for some folks. Its all about the physical properties of all the pieces involved: weight of rotor, weight of pads, etc etc.


I still get some squeaks at slow speeds like in parking lots, but in general they are a lot quieter.


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## rocco2gti (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: (formerly silveratljetta)*

FWIW - I've been running the porterfields for about a year now, and they're not bad. When they're cold they aren't any better than the stock pads, but when they're hot they're amazing.
-Evan


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## Elvir2 (Nov 19, 2007)

*Re: (rocco2gti)*

the only reason you got squeaks is because you did not properly break them in, i have the same brakes, and i LOVE them.. 
Elvir


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (Elvir2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Elvir2* »_the only reason you got squeaks is because you did not properly break them in, i have the same brakes, and i LOVE them.. 
Elvir


hey dumbass. Yeah I did break them in properly. I can actually read and speak english unlike you so I think I can read the bedding instructions on the box. I installed the tyrolsport kit and rebedded the pads in and now they are squeak free.










_Modified by formerly silveratljetta at 9:52 PM 2-6-2008_


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## Elvir2 (Nov 19, 2007)

*Re: (formerly silveratljetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formerly silveratljetta* »_
hey dumbass. 









Elvir


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (Elvir2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Elvir2* »_








Elvir


i'm sorry I should have rephrased it "hey smartass"


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## a2gtinut (Dec 2, 1999)

*Re: (rocco2gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rocco2gti* »_FWIW - I've been running the porterfields for about a year now, and they're not bad. When they're cold they aren't any better than the stock pads, but when they're hot they're amazing.
-Evan

good to know. I had them on my 16v and will get the same from new(er) car.
BTW. my Dad has HPS pads on his B5 Passat and they make some faint noise during easy stops (driveway). He can not hear them in the car and he doesn't care since brakes are http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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