# ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?>



## PoVolks (Oct 2, 2003)

Just like the topic says, I'd like to see if anyone knows just what limits there are for the S4/S6 sedans/avants even if its not 50-state legal. I realize what Dahlback Racing has going on with their 'Monster Golf', but I'd like to know what power can be made, even if its not that reliable, or even not quite street legal. I'm thinking along the lines of 500 + hp, not trying to make it a daily driver, but a weekend car. I'm sure internals would have to be beefed up and all that.
Are there any DIY guys out there that have created some impressive numbers with their own project. Where are the crazy UK guys and their monster 20v's? 
I'm just a VR6 guy that is fiendin' for some turbo'd 20v quattro action, and I'm not going to be happy with a bone stock setup. Any suggestions/opinions would rock.


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## Harold (Jul 31, 2000)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (Sciroccist)*

some people have used the 20VT swaps in other Audi cars, http://www.034efi.com might have some links


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## PoVolks (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (Harold)*

WOW! 
They definately do turbos for Audi.


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## Alex W (Jan 10, 2001)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (Sciroccist)*

You should browse on Audiworld's forum for UrS4s and UrS6s (http://forums.audiworld.com/s4s6/). The 20VT that came in those cars can make a good bit of power, even on stock internals. I just bought an UrS4 that I hope to do a turbo upgrade on before too long. I will probably choose a turbo along the lines of the K26/GT3071 to get good power without an extremely high boost threshold. I'd rather have more useable power down low for an everyday driver, even if I won't be top dog on dyno day. 


_Modified by Alex W at 1:11 AM 7-15-2005_


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## PoVolks (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (Alex W)*

The Audi 90's that competed in the Trans Am competition back in the day were some awesome machines. With Stuck and Haywood owning the racetrack those vehicles had over 600hp with so many victories. That was before the quattro/traction control combo was banned from motorsports. I wonder what they did to the 20v back then, besides slappin' one big-arse turbo on the lump.


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (Sciroccist)*

Hap Maguire's (in Colorado) S4 is probably the fastest one out there... as for "whats been done" it's pretty basic. He kept motronic engine management for quite a while and was using a large hybrid turbo with a Mustang Cobra R airbox and 928S4 MAF sensor, some big injectors, RS2 manifold, and the Happersized FMIC. Now he's doing a tubular header, and even larger turbo, and standalone engine management. I don't remember which he chose, but it wasn't 034EFI for some reason. 
Otherwise, I think Javad at 034EFI has the most powerful 20vt car in the USA, beyond 500 whp! Of course its in an 80q, so it doesn't fall into your "fastest Ur-S sedan" category.


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## Alex W (Jan 10, 2001)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (billzcat1)*

Billzcat let us know if any more UrS4 short shifters are made.
BTW I checked out your Audi 100 LS for sale. I had brown 1977 100 LS back in high school and the interior was identical to yours. Just looking at the pictures brings back everything but the smell. My seats were worn just like these:








/nostalgic old fart


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## PoVolks (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (Alex W)*

Awesome! 
I'm still just testing the waters on the 20v powerplant. I'm up for lots of modification, but I just don't want to deal with the typical 'engine-swap' issues, though a coupe' 20v would kick much a$$! 
Here are some questions for you: 
1.) What are some weak points in the performance area? (exa: handling, braking, etc.)
2.) What are some weak points in the service/maintenance, or OEM parts area? 
3.) Where is weight reduction good besides removing the basic creature comforts, or the backseat?
4.) Are H.I.D.s factory on the S4 as well as the S6? 
5.) How hard is it to find a euro-6 speed for this car (LHD)?
6.) Do high mileage cars feel worn, or tired in acceleration or performance? 
7.) What areas need to be resolved/replaced at higher mileage?


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (Sciroccist)*

1)Weak points in performance: weight, weight, and weight. The suspension has surprisiginly good geometry and handles quite well...for as heavy as the car is. The brakes are excellent... on a 3000 lb car. For some reason we got the smallest brakes on our S-cars of any market in the world. There are tons of upgrade options out there. I could talk brakes for hours, so I'll stop. 
As for power output: The stock turbo and exhaust manifold are pretty maxed out at around 300 bhp. The MAF is typically upgraded around 350bhp, and it should go without saying that injectors/chip should be tuned appropriately for your setup.
The 01E transmission is a weak point as well. 1st gear is notoriously weak. The slope of the torque curve on turbocharged engines is very steep, which puts a lot of stress on the gear and it can flex and gall the teeth, resulting in a clicking sound while in gear. More on this later.
2)Weak points in the parts arena? Not many. Most everything you would want is still available, but I suppose the weak point would be the price! S-car parts are notoriously expensive. IIRC, the serpentine belt tensioner is ~$180
3)Weight reduction - you're going to have to give up the creature comforts here. The OEM sport seats are very comfortable but very heavy. A set of "real" sport seats should save you at least 100 lbs. Otherwise, save weight by getting light wheels and by going to a big brake upgrade (which saves weight by using aluminum calipers)
4)HIDs are factory only on some euro-model cars.
5)Not hard at all, just spendy to get a good one. The 1st gear failure is very common, although it was never an issue on the 4.2L S4/S6 in Europe (with narrow first). The good 6-speed replacements have a wider 1st gear - physically wider by 7mm, but the same ratio. This was Audi's cure for the 1st gear problem on the RS2. There are a ton of gearboxes out there which have the wide first. A used 6-speed box with the standard 1st should run $500-$1200 ish. A used 6-speed with the good 1st gear should run $1000-$2000ish, and I used to sell rebuilt, zero mile RS2 6-speeds for $3600, which is pretty high but still a fair price.
6)High mileage cars only feel sloppy when they haven't been maintained. Suspension is the most notable area where neglect affects feel. The engines can handle a lot of abuse, but are not infallible. When considering a high-miles S, consider having a compression test done.
7)A few maintenance areas that sometimes pop up: power steering pump (rebuild yourself), center driveshaft support bearing (BMW part is the inexpensive replacement), and of course suspension, suspension, suspension. One thing I don't like is that the ball joints A)are integrated with the control arm and not replaceable and B)have no replacement for the rubber boot so if the boot tears, you have to replace the entire control arm.
Otherwise they're a pretty solid car. Not without their quirks, and of course this list is by no means all-inclusive, but it should give a pretty good idea of what's going on.


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## PoVolks (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (billzcat1)*

awesome dude. Lots of info that I'm looking to hear about. My GTI VR6 is nearly 3000lbs, ALMOST-no quattro and only 2 doors








That's why I'm selling her, but also I'm just ready for something bigger badder, and more exotic. 
Front seats I'd gladly junk for some manual, tasteful racing buckets, wheels, coils, and brakes is a must too. 
I must ask you though, how quick can these cars get at their finest hour?


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (Sciroccist)*

Define "quick". Are you looking for smile-inducing thrust, dyno plots, quarter mile times? Bear in mind most S-car owners couldn't care less about drag racing and if they have any track time in a year it is non-competitive driving events, so actual numbers on how quick an S-car is will be hard to find. 
It's funny when the occasional S-car owner goes drag racing for the first time (and usually the last time) and they do very poorly because they always assumed drag racing is easier than it really is.
Anyway, as with any car: "Speed costs money; how fast do you want to go?"


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (billzcat1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billzcat1* »_Hap Maguire's (in Colorado) S4 is probably the fastest one out there...

Hap's car is not the fastest/most powerful S4/S6 out there. Maybe after his upcoming work he can surpase to these numbers, but he has not as of yet IIRC. These numbers are from a 2.6ltr strocker AAN.






































http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PoVolks (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it ... (yumyjagermiester)*

do you have any performance figures with this? I'm sure it is an acceleration-beast!








I'll bet the 0-60 is a little over 4 seconds, and the quarter being about 12? maybe?


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## germantoyagain (May 12, 2004)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it ... (Sciroccist)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sciroccist* »_do you have any performance figures with this? I'm sure it is an acceleration-beast!








I'll bet the 0-60 is a little over 4 seconds, and the quarter being about 12? maybe?











if you want a 1/4 machine dont start with a 4000 lb car end of story. and no he runs 11.80s. But like i said i guarentee this car will destroy most anything on the highway


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it ... (yumyjagermiester)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yumyjagermiester* »_










I love it. 530whp and it has mudflaps!


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## TooLowForNYC (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it ... (billzcat1)*

they call the red one the HIGhWAY KILLER














insane car got to see it dyno'd at Waterfest i also have a video of it that i could post up


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## PoVolks (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it ... (TooLowForNYC)*

post that vid!!! or just hookup a link to the source! please


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## Eric Dow (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it ... (Sciroccist)*

Stock 95.5 S6 ran 14.9 1st try. I LOVED my S6. The 95.5's got a slight upgrade to some of the insides and some nice rims, but the big gain there was slightly stronger trannie. Blitz, was that the 7mm wider 1st? I just remember really having a hard time finding one, and when I did, and drove some older S4's on the same track it sure seamed a bit nicer. Then again, 3 years newer... Who knows.
Sorry for the ramble, headed over to the S Fest to see who shows up early and drool over the cars I don't have anymore







Got a TT 225 Quattro Roadster now. Not a bad trade for what I need.


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it ... (Eric Dow)*

Indeed, the 95.5 got the 35mm 1st gear. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PoVolks (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it ... (Eric Dow)*

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/...56858

Tell me what you guys think...
...should I buy her??? My favorite color, and local, and low'ish mileage.
-is it too expensive would you say?


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it ... (Sciroccist)*

I think too expensive consider it doesn't come with the wheels and has minor accident damage. S4s have been dropping in price a lot lately... I guess this guy didn't get the memo.


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## PoVolks (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it ... (billzcat1)*

heheh, 
yeah, I see that the kbb value for this S4 is acctually 8000, so $1500 above private party value seems like a rip. 
Though it sux trying to find a good example with low miles these days.


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## Quattro Krant (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it ... (Sciroccist)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sciroccist* »_
Though it sux trying to find a good example with low miles these days.








 Oh cry me a freaking river buddy





















, try finding a nice Ur-Q. And if that guy wants $ so bad, he might consider lowering the price a touch. i do LOVE the pearl white's though. When I was kicking around the idea of a Ur-s4, all I could find were green ones http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## europaS6 (Jun 28, 2004)

Here is the car you should buy.
http://www.audifans.com/market...=2520
Absolutely killer deal! 

_Modified by europaS6 at 3:59 PM 9/2/2005_


_Modified by europaS6 at 4:00 PM 9/2/2005_


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## PoVolks (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: (europaS6)*

Yo, that car has been taking steroids!








Gotta love MTM and Dahlback. It really sux that its out of my way...like really outta the way.


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## Harold (Jul 31, 2000)

*Re: (Sciroccist)*

Bah, can you say roadtrip? Fly up on Southwest and drive her back








Back when I had my GTI I drove to NYC ( 4hrs) just for an ABA shortblock.


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## PoVolks (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: (Harold)*

I so would, if it wasn't : Total Est. Time: 21 hours, 25 minutes Total Est. Distance: 1423.11 miles 
It would be cheaper to ship her...hmmmmm







i'm going to call some car couriers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## .7065 (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (Sciroccist)*

http://www.2bennett.com/gtr.1.jpg
http://www.2bennett.com/Watkinsglen_05.lo.mov
Some specs about this GTR # 2BGTR001
POWER-2.7L twin turbo V6
modified RS4 Ko4 turbos(Cosworth)
complete RS4 intake system w/ Ceramic coated APR Aluminum Bipipe
2B Exhaust system- twin 3" Stainless,mandrel bent turbo back w/ 2 side exits
APR 4 special programs for engine management (25psi)roughly 500hp
2B oil cooler kits for engine and transmission
2 all Aluminum intercoolers
2Bennett crankcase breather system
INSTRUMENTS-
APR center vent gauge holders (3)
Boost, Exhaust gas temp, 2B digital intercooler gauge, oil pressure, hour meter, etc
DRIVETRAIN-
2B Stage2 GT front brakes (featuring six piston Brembo caliperss w/ 14"directional vein rotors)
2B Stage2 rear- 2piece directional vein rotors 12.25"
2B Coil Program Double adjust suspension
2B adjustable control arms
2 to 1 reduction steering gear
Forgeline custom 3 piece wheels 18" x 11" 305/35/18 tires
BODY-
2B GTR carbon fiber body
2B Lexan windows
2B roll cage
2B Carbon fiber rear wing
2B Carbon fiber sunroof delete panel


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## PoVolks (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (xspeedracer)*

thats a bi-turbo 2.7L, not an UR S4. I was asking about the 2.2L 20v turbo cars. 
But MTM's S4 (Nogaro Blu) avant i think is more powerful. It has dual K16 911 turbos. 600hp est.


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## TooLowForNYC (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (Sciroccist)*

how about a 700+ HP Audi 200 20Valve Turbo (same engine as the URS4) look at the video, and tell me what you think
http://www.tunershop.com/usa/rs200/audibei300.wmv


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## Scott (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (TooLowForNYC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TooLowForNYC* »_how about a 700+ HP Audi 200 20Valve Turbo (same engine as the URS4) look at the video, and tell me what you think
http://www.tunershop.com/usa/rs200/audibei300.wmv

I think that was a very lame video...


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## TooLowForNYC (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (Colorado 16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Colorado 16v* »_
I think that was a very lame video... 

do you really


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## PoVolks (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (TooLowForNYC)*

that is a very cool car. The camera guy should have expanded the horizon...literally. 
Thats some high revs for a 200!


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## Scott (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (TooLowForNYC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TooLowForNYC* »_
do you really









Yes, they could have shown a LOT more! I am sure that car is totally kick ass, and I am not trying to downplay the car or the work that has obviously been poured into it, I am jsut saying the video itself was just.... well just blah... although I did like the music


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## TooLowForNYC (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (Colorado 16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Colorado 16v* »_
Yes, they could have shown a LOT more! I am sure that car is totally kick ass, and I am not trying to downplay the car or the work that has obviously been poured into it, I am jsut saying the video itself was just.... well just blah... although I did like the music
















well im sorry it is a bit hard trying to be a camera master at 210 mph


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## Scott (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (TooLowForNYC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TooLowForNYC* »_well im sorry it is a bit hard trying to be a camera master at 210 mph


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## PoVolks (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: ? Fastest/Quickest Ur-sedan in the US? Where is it at? What has been done?> (Colorado 16v)*

was that you behind the camera??


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