# 8v timing belt up grade ?



## VWMK2GTI (Feb 20, 2008)

Trying to upgrade my timing belt size,as in a wider belt.I seen it on some vw, which I like to do on my car. which timing belt do I have to buy ?


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

The timing belt that you probably saw is on the 16v motor.

Here's the million-dollar question: Why do you want to "upgrade" to a wider belt? 

To my knowledge, there would be absolutely zero benefit to doing this, and a lot of parts would have to be swapped in the process...

Unless you're planning to run a supercharger off the timing belt, there's no reason that it can't handle the duty of turning the camshaft and intermediate shaft. If there were, I bet the VW engineers would have addressed it, and/or we would have noticed the flaw after 20+ years of operation...

Just my $0.02


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

VWMK2GTI said:


> Trying to upgrade my timing belt size,as in a wider belt.I seen it on some vw, which I like to do on my car. which timing belt do I have to buy ?


Kent cams makes a performance timing belt.

http://www.eurosportacc.com/kentcams_contitech_belts.htm


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

I believe the people using wider timing belts on a 8v are using diesel pulleys and a diesel belt and there are a few other things that have to be changed also to accommodate the wider gears/pulleys.


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## VWMK2GTI (Feb 20, 2008)

*8v*

I was just wondering which belt would fit,and ur right abt the VW engineers. for n/a 8v power its fine,put if I were to turbo my 8v I would go with a 16v belt.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

You can not use a 16v belt on a 8v


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

Svedka said:


> You can not use a 16v belt on a 8v


 Yes and no. It would be a real waste as you have to swap all the gears over also due to the different tooth count, but it could be done. Real waste as it would have zero effect. The "racing" timing belts are stronger due to design (material) but if I recall they cost three or four times as much, again a waste if you are not racing and need it. Just adding a turbo to the engine is no reason to worry about the timing belt. What made you think that a different belt would be needed or help if you use a turbo?


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## Eric D (Feb 16, 1999)

You don't need a wider timing belt for an 8v turbo.
Check out what the Brazilians are laying down with a stock belt.

730hp 8.77 sec at 162 mph.
VW AP2000 83.5mm x 92.8mm
Head:OHC 8 valves non-cross-flow port and polish by Pro-heads
Cams: Sans Cams 296 degrees (9k rpm rev limit)
Springs and retainers: Crane
valves: 40mm intake and 35mm exhaust
Turbo: Garret GT4088R
Header: German (custom)
Intake: Belquip (custom)
Pistons: Iapel 83.5mm 8.5 CR
Rods: Howards
Crankshaft: OEM 92.8mm
Flywheel: Sapinho (custom)
Clutch: Multi disk by Barpan Argentina
Injectors: 8 x Bosch 160lbs/h
Fuel Pump: Weldon 2345D
Fuel Pressure Regulator: 2 x Fiat Tempra
Distribuitor, cables: MSD
Ignition and Fuel controller by HIS PW6X
Suspension: Impacto
Traction bars: Sapinho (custom)
Icecooler: Supercooler - the system is cold by the methanol.
Gears and spool: Forged and made by Sapinho
Booster: the car stars w/ 20psi, go to 35psi and finish with 43,4psi


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

WaterWheels said:


> Yes and no. It would be a real waste as you have to swap all the gears over also due to the different tooth count, but it could be done. Real waste as it would have zero effect. The "racing" timing belts are stronger due to design (material) but if I recall they cost three or four times as much, again a waste if you are not racing and need it. Just adding a turbo to the engine is no reason to worry about the timing belt. What made you think that a different belt would be needed or help if you use a turbo?


 If that was true 16v people would have swapped to 8v belts and used the franco cam gear. Also the 16v aba swap would be easier.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Eric holy **** that's some power from a counterflow


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## VWMK2GTI (Feb 20, 2008)

r there any videos of that car?.i would love to see some.thanks


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## Eric D (Feb 16, 1999)

Plenty of videos on YouTube.
Search Gol Sapinho or Sapinho FLTD.


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

Svedka said:


> If that was true 16v people would have swapped to 8v belts and used the franco cam gear. Also the 16v aba swap would be easier.


 I have to confess I really don't understand your response. If what were true (or maybe better what is untrue)? Who cares about that Franco cam gear anyway, it never really proved to be much to brag about, but it can also be done and what is the hang-up with doing an ABA with 16v head, I thought many people have done it?


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

If it was as easy as swapping the gears yes people would have used the franco cam gear there was a high demand for 16v variable cam gears. It may be older tech but it was proven. 

As for the aba 16v why would you go through the issues of swapping the aba to 16v gears if all you had to do was throw a 8v cam gear and belt at it. 


Please show me someone who has a 16v belt running on a 8v or a 8v belt on a 16v because if it is possible I would like to see it.


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

WaterWheels said:


> Yes and no. It would be a real waste as you have to swap all the gears over also due to the different tooth count, but it could be done. Real waste as it would have zero effect.


 Yes, swapping gears, and the tensioner, is the idea. But just where did I indicate "easy as" like you seem to have read into it? I used the words "real waste" to indicate maybe some work or effort was involved. The intent of my response was not to detail how you could do it, I will if you can't figure it out, but to correct the statement that you can not use a 16v belt on an 8v engine. Now if you had said it would require a little work or modification to do it then we would not be having this conversation. I would have just added true or correct maybe and that would have been the end of things unless someone asked any questions, right? Instead you said it was not true, not directly but you did none the less. So I ask again, in the hopes of not getting another repeat of the same none answer, "If what were true (or maybe better what is untrue)?" 




Svedka said:


> As for the aba 16v why would you go through the issues of swapping the aba to 16v gears if all you had to do was throw a 8v cam gear and belt at it. Please show me someone who has a 16v belt running on a 8v or a 8v belt on a 16v because if it is possible I would like to see it.


 Sorry but I can't show you any pictures of any nor do I know anyone who has done it. How would a picture help anyway as it would just look to be a normal engine with a belt on it, right? I have never seen a thousand dollar bill but I know they exist so that show me bit is a wasted argument. But that is not the real issue here now is it? If someone walked up to me and said they would pay me to change their 8v timing belt system over to a 16v belt, or vise versa, I could and would do it for the money. That is the point, it can be done. Is it just a swap of belt and pulleys/gears/tensioner? Not exactly but almost that simple if you have the skills to operate some common machines which can be found in any machine shop. You can forget all that Franco cam gear stuff too as a) I am not interested about it and b) it plays no roll in the topic at hand. 

Having never done an ABA with a 16v head I can only guess at what would be required to do the timing belt for such a modification. Here is my take on it without doing any research into it; bolt on an 16v crankshaft belt gear, bolt on a 16v belt tensioner and use a European ABF 16v belt (I believe the tooth patteren is the same), done. If I'm wrong then like I said in the last post, what's the hang-up, explain and I can discuss it then as you seem to indicate something different.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

has anyone actually ran a 16v belt and gears on a 8v and if you have please post up the pics and what you had to do because as far as I know it will not work, or the opposite the 8v belt and gears on a 16v because again as far as I know it will not work.


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

Is there some reason you are not talking direct to me? Is there some reason you decided to make another post asking for back-up but not address what I said above in response to your last post? Lets assume nobody has ever done this in either form, which I would think is true as it makes no sense, no benefit at all. OK, the 16v belt setup uses what VW calls in other engines a "Super Torque" design where the teeth are deeper and closer together, but that is no real great deal. But as I stated above, whether someone has or has not is not the issue, the "can not be done" part is the issue. So talk to me as I have asked before, why do you believe it can not be done? Disregard any discussion about has any one or Franco camshaft gears or benefits, just plain and simple, why do you think it is not doable? Explain, draw a picture, point to or post some reference, anything but not just "I don't think it can be done".


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Your saying it can be done and all im asking for is to see if anyone has ever done it so I am looking for actual proof.


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

Svedka said:


> Your saying it can be done . . .


 Correct, and you are claiming that it can not be done. That is what discussions are all about, people having different points of view and talking about them. So like I have been asking all along, *why* do you believe it can not be done? Forget the other things you decided to ignore in the search for some "proof" that it can be done and consentrate on the attempt here to have a technical discussion on the facts of *if* it can or can not be done. Or maybe explain just why you don't want to discuss it and I'll leave it at that.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

WaterWheels said:


> Correct, and you are claiming that it can not be done. That is what discussions are all about, people having different points of view and talking about them. So like I have been asking all along, *why* do you believe it can not be done? Forget the other things you decided to ignore in the search for some "proof" that it can be done and consentrate on the attempt here to have a technical discussion on the facts of *if* it can or can not be done. Or maybe explain just why you don't want to discuss it and I'll leave it at that.


 


Correct I said it can not be done and I have no proof. 

You say it can be done and have no proof. 

I asked if anyone knew of or has a 16v running 8v stuff or a 8v running 16v stuff for that reason, if it is possible I ask myself why for 20 years have I never seen one.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Svedka said:


> if it is possible I ask myself why for 20 years have I never seen one.


 What would be the benefits to having the 16V belt on an 8V motor. The only reason the 16V belt is wider and has bigger teeth is due to the extra load caused by the additional cam and associated valve train. Where would the bigger belt on the 8V be an advantage?


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

Brazilians make some sick 8vs I use oem timing belt on my turbo 8v works great waste of time trying to use a 16v i have never seen it done. franco cam gear is cool i wish i had one 8v vtec almost :laugh:


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

Svedka said:


> Correct I said it can not be done and I have no proof.
> 
> You say it can be done and have no proof.
> 
> I asked if anyone knew of or has a 16v running 8v stuff or a 8v running 16v stuff for that reason, if it is possible I ask myself why for 20 years have I never seen one.


 Proof, come on now and get real, enough with this avoidance blockade. Have you never done anything out of the ordinary prior to someone else doing it first to prove to you it was possible? Can’t you figure out something technically in your head and know it is possible or even do it without looking for someone else to do it first? How many people throught history have had theories about things that later turned out to be true even though the rest of the world said it was rubbish? This kind of mentality would have kept mankind in the stone age rather than inventing automobiles to drive and “discuss”. 

But in your defense you are correct, I have no hard proof. But I do have technically sound information about both engines to picture in my mind how it could be done. I have demensions which can support my theory and if a discussion had developed I would have shared them. I will not however with a second party that just side steps the issue with it can’t be done cause I say so. Am I or do I expect anyone to do this? No, of course not, never did. As pointed out by myself and others it is a total waste of time, effort and maybe money. But the “unproven” fact is, call it a theory if that helps, it can be done because the technical basis is there for it to work and work correctly. This part is what I have been trying to discuss with you all alone as a counter to the “it can not be done” point of view. But attempt as I may to get you to explain yourself or layout your reasons for your position, you just post it can not be done or I would have seen it in 20 years, bhah blah. 

I had hoped for a somewhat mechanical or technical or intelligent conversation but as they say, hope is the last to die. And I’m sure you will be happy to hear that I have about lost interest in getting your input on this, not your point of view mind you.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

^^^^^ lmfao


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