# ECU flashing using 87 octane...



## vwjetta252006 (Jul 31, 2009)

So other than C2, are there any other ecu software program companies that make the most out of the 87 octane, so that you dont have to go to 91 or 93?
I know GIAC, APR, REVO tech, unitronics all use 91 and 93... after they are chipped, C2 says you can keep using 87 and get the extra hp and torque... any other programs out there like c2??
and PS. what happens if you keep using 87 Octane on a chipped ecu that requires 91 or 93......... you only wont get the milage and the power correct??
or will something more damaging occur???



_Modified by vwjetta252006 at 7:55 PM 8-25-2009_


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: ECU flashing using 87 octane... (vwjetta252006)*

well if you use lower octane you risk pinging and that can do some severe damage to your motor!!!!! i wouldn't recommend you do that if you get the 91 program run at LEAST 91 octane. i got the stock, 91, 93 and 100 octance program with my apr and i'll tell ya you can feel a big difference between all of them. if i didn't toggle back to the 91 though after fueling up with 91 i know something bad would happen... the fuel allows the car to retard some timing to allow for more power if i remember correctly. if you want some info on how to MAKE 93 octane let me know i can hook you up with some facts!


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## vwjetta252006 (Jul 31, 2009)

*Re: ECU flashing using 87 octane... (TylerO28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TylerO28* »_well if you use lower octane you risk pinging and that can do some severe damage to your motor!!!!! i wouldn't recommend you do that if you get the 91 program run at LEAST 91 octane. i got the stock, 91, 93 and 100 octance program with my apr and i'll tell ya you can feel a big difference between all of them. if i didn't toggle back to the 91 though after fueling up with 91 i know something bad would happen... the fuel allows the car to retard some timing to allow for more power if i remember correctly. if you want some info on how to MAKE 93 octane let me know i can hook you up with some facts!

Sure im interested in more info on how to make 93 octane gas...








I dont mind the 91 or 93 if prices werent high here in canada.
I would've gotten my car chipped in a sec..
but i have to go to NJ to get the c2 ECU. chip for the 87 oct . chip....

for Octane 87 here we're paying 98.9 Cents/ liter ..... 
in the states its about $2.76 / gallon... 
each gallon = 4 Liters almost, so $2.76 div. by 4 = 69 cent / liter...

for us the octane 91 and 93 cost 1.08 cent/ liter and 1.22 cent/ liter or $ 4.72 /gallon and $4.88 / Gallon.. 
so if the same power and torque gains can be achieved with octane 87 ie... (C2 ecu mod) why go with the 91 / 93 ecu mods


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

87 oct is $1.10 CDN right now in BC. The same power from 91/93 oct programs can't be had with the 87 oct. The gains are minimal but the C2 program re-maps the torque delivery to improve in other ways. JGet the 91 and follow the "Golden Mean", that's what I've decided to do.


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## Jon1983 (Feb 21, 2009)

With the upgraded software, you get better mileage running 91 or 93. It should be enough to offset the extra cost of the more expensive gas.


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: (Jon1983)*

Increasing power by advancing the igntion timing only happens if the octane of the gas you're usin can keep the motor from knockin (pinging). If you advance timing curve and use low octane gas that will make engine knock under load...the knock sensors will retard the timing till knock goes away...and you're right back where you started. Any "flash" that claims to use 87 octane can't be advancing the ignition much if at all..and any power gain claim might just be from the fact they happened to pick a test car who's engine was at the hi end of VW's production tolerance....The German's are very tight with their specs..if they claim something you know you're gonna get it...manufacturing tolerances will mean that some examples will leave the factory outperforming the spec...so for instance some stock 2.5L engines will put out 175 HP not the claimed 170...if you happen to pick a test car that has this situation...or even more stock HP..say 178..you can claim "8 HP over stock with our XDRTGR intake" and show a dyno curve to "prove" it!


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## Jon1983 (Feb 21, 2009)

*Re: (spitpilot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spitpilot* »_you can claim "8 HP over stock with our XDRTGR intake" and show a dyno curve to "prove" it!









...which is why it's a good idea to ask to see a baseline plot for the car without the extra hardware or software.


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## darkk (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: (sagerabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sagerabbit* »_ The same power from 91/93 oct programs can't be had with the 87 oct. The gains are minimal but the C2 program re-maps the torque delivery to improve in other ways. JGet the 91 and follow the "Golden Mean", that's what I've decided to do.

when I got my 2.5 Jetta remapped a couple years back,Jeff told me the 91/93 octane program only added a couple more hp over the 87 program and that was at full throttle and at high rpm. so the 87 program will be great for the average driver.


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## Schagephonic (Feb 5, 2009)

*Re: (darkk)*

I 'm 5 days into my new C-2 87 oct. chip. I continue to be impressed with the improvements to the throttle response, lack of weird noises at startup. Even if it's only 8hp, the overall feel of the car is much improved.


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## vwgtipowr (Aug 26, 2002)

*Re: (Schagephonic)*

I'm planning on getting the C2 87 octane with intake flash in the next few weeks, so it is good to hear more positive feedback.
What was the total cost to you?
Says $299, but do they charge you a labor fee for the flash?


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## vwjetta252006 (Jul 31, 2009)

*Re: (sagerabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sagerabbit* »_87 oct is $1.10 CDN right now in BC. The same power from 91/93 oct programs can't be had with the 87 oct. The gains are minimal but the C2 program re-maps the torque delivery to improve in other ways. JGet the 91 and follow the "Golden Mean", that's what I've decided to do.


Even if the same powers cant be obtained, the 87 prog.. will be better than stock right??








faster jetta!!


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## vwjetta252006 (Jul 31, 2009)

*Re: (Jon1983)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jon1983* »_With the upgraded software, you get better mileage running 91 or 93. It should be enough to offset the extra cost of the more expensive gas.

Thats true on some cars fuel economy improves if you use 91 / 93 .. 
but the power i know turbo tuned cars ie the jetta GLI, lancer evo etc they need the 91 + to get the power and fuel eco.

but with this program more power might be reached...... but fuel economy as well since more power will be produced... 
After installing the carbonio CAI... my fuel economy went down significantaly! 
So i wonder what will happen with the reflashing of the ecu...


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## vwjetta252006 (Jul 31, 2009)

*Re: (Schagephonic)*

eh you know with our cars each and every hp counts!!!
8 for ECU 
5-6 for CAI 
10 hp for cat-back exhaust.. 
thats 24 horses!!
150 + 24 
174
that puts our 2.5Ls to the specs that VW claims the new jettas make!!


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

Keep adding.


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## vwjetta252006 (Jul 31, 2009)

*Re: (sagerabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sagerabbit* »_Keep adding.

wish we could get 500 + horses like jetta R-gt.... 
even though thats a v-6.......... we would be able to get at least 400.. imagine that........... pure cargasmic!!


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (vwjetta252006)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwjetta252006* »_eh you know with our cars each and every hp counts!!!
8 for ECU 
5-6 for CAI 
10 hp for cat-back exhaust.. *(avg. HP gain over stock for cat-back is around 5-8 HP)*
thats 24 horses!!
150 + 24 
174
that puts our 2.5Ls to the specs that VW claims the new jettas make!!






























unfortunately, HP gains don't work like that.
you may get that amount over STOCK *individually*, but you don't get that much added to your total HP for each mod.
realistically, with ecu, intake, and exhaust; you're looking at about 10-15 HP


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## Tuanes (May 16, 2009)

*Re: (MKVJET08)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MKVJET08* »_

realistically, with ecu, intake, and exhaust; you're looking at about 10-15 HP

What a downer. Ha. 
At least you can get 93 in Canada... out here in AZ its only 87,89,91. About a 10 cent cost difference between each octane.


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (Tuanes)*

i can get 93 here in virginia.
we have 87, 89, 93


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## Schagephonic (Feb 5, 2009)

*Re: (vwgtipowr)*

Mine was on sale for $260 total because they installed at "Dubs of the Rockies" show a few weeks ago. You can always ask for "sale" price.


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