# ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash



## efk141 (Sep 9, 2006)

Feb. 2, 2010, I had my '04 Phaeton in for service (88,997 mi) because it would not start. After diagnosis, found faulty brake switch and shifter mechanism. Removed and replaced brake switch, shifter assy, and PRNDL sensor. On Feb. 17, '10, after I started car, it sounded like it was in wrong gear and all drives were lit on dash. Turned off, started again and everything was OK. Called service tech to let him know; he said he would notify mechanic.
On Fri., 19 Mar. '10 at around 2:15 p.m., was driving and noticed again that all drive lights were lit on dash. Pulled off road, turned off motor, started again, and everything seemed OK. Went farther down road, entered super highway, pressed accel. to pass tractor-trailer, only to notice all gears were again lit, as well as a new engine outline (in orange). As I was passing the truck, car surged forward and then made a loud clunk, I drove at 60 on the 70 mph rd. to get to rest area. Turned off motor, looked in manual and it stated car should be taken to dealer. Since it was still "drivable" and I didn't need a tow, I tried calling the dealer 4 times, but only got through to an answering machine. I decided to take car to dealer.
When I arrived, I spoke to the only service writer at the desk, and he was new. Told me they were too busy to take my car that day. I asked to speak to VW service manager, and he said I should not drive car. Car now has 91,509 mi.
I was wondering if any of you, including Michael, know why all gear lights keep coming on at the same time, and why the car feels like it has to shift to the next gear. I am thinking the repairs on Feb.2 were not complete. I would appreciate hearing from you.


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (efk141)*

All the lights illuminate (PRND) when there is a fault stored in the Transmission Control Module. When there is a fault stored in the TCM then it will default to emergency running mode (by priority). Which then the Torque Clutch will stay open and the transmission will stay in 3rd gear for all forward driving. If it is a low priority fault like a tiptronic switch, then emergency mode will not be activated. 
Just found my notes! It states that if emergency running mode is active, say a solenoid valve fails, the transmission is protecting its internal parts. The emerergency running mode is indicated by the display in the dashboard. Hence the fully illuminated PRNDS. 


_Modified by KCPhaetonTech at 5:22 PM 3-21-2010_


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## efk141 (Sep 9, 2006)

Thanks Matt, I will print out this topic with your answer and take it with me when the VW service people call me. Right now I have a rental and I'll bet they will not get my car fixed tomorrow.
Eileen K.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (KCPhaetonTech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KCPhaetonTech* »_All the lights illuminate (PRND) when there is a fault stored in the Transmission Control Module. When there is a fault stored in the TCM then it will default to emergency running mode (by priority). Which then the Torque Clutch will stay open and the transmission will stay in 3rd gear for all forward driving. If it is a low priority fault like a tiptronic switch, then emergency mode will not be activated. 
Just found my notes! It states that if emergency running mode is active, say a solenoid valve fails, the transmission is protecting its internal parts. The emerergency running mode is indicated by the display in the dashboard. Hence the fully illuminated PRNDS. 

_Modified by KCPhaetonTech at 5:22 PM 3-21-2010_


Eileen:
Matt is always right on this kind of stuff! 
Here's hoping that it is something easily and inexpensively repaired. However, better yet I hope you have an extended warranty because transmission repairs on the Phaeton are never cheap.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (efk141)*

Hi Eileen:
Matt is correct, all the PRNDS lights illuminate if there is a fault reported by the transmission controller.
However - the fault might be quite minor in nature. For example, if there is excessive play (slop, backlash) in the plastic plate that fits over the shift lever and is used to determine what position the shift lever is in, the lights will also illuminate. This is a 'fault', but not a critical fault.
There is a lot of discussion about this particular problem on the second page of the  Retrofitting Keyless Start to Phaetons that are equipped with Keyless Entry post.
Michael


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
However - the fault might be quite minor in nature. For example, if there is excessive play (slop, backlash) in the plastic plate that fits over the shift lever and is used to determine what position the shift lever is in, the lights will also illuminate. This is a 'fault', but not a critical fault.
Michael

"All the lights illuminate (PRND) when there is a fault stored in the Transmission Control Module. When there is a fault stored in the TCM then it will default to emergency running mode (*by priority*). Which then the Torque Clutch will stay open and the transmission will stay in 3rd gear for all forward driving. *If it is a low priority fault like a tiptronic switch, then emergency mode will not be activated."*


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## efk141 (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (PanEuropean)*

VW called today and told me I need two new batteries. After they install them ($600 ! ! !), they will perform complete diagnostic. Service tech said new batteries should get rid of some faults, but I can't understand why I need two now, since everything seemed to be powered OK. I still believe the surging and clunking are NOT related to any battery, and I do believe Matt's comment that transmission runs in 3rd gear was my problem. So I OK'd the purchase of the new batts., and holding my breath as to what comes next. BTW, my batteries are the originals, so that makes them 5.5 yrs. old. Will read about batteries on this site to get more informed!
I also think it could be the "plate" issue on the gear shift as mentioned by Michael. Keeping my fingers crossed!
Eileen


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (efk141)*

Hi Eileen,
When you pick your car up can you check your invoice and see if the technician wrote what faults were stored in the TCM. This will help our diagnosis in case the batteries don't fix the concern. But let's hope the batteries do the trick!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (efk141)*

I think that's where they always start with anything. $600 isn't too bad for both batteries if it includes parts, you're looking at over $400 for both batteries if you buy VW. I recently had mine changed, they started with the left (expensive) one, that didn't fix it so they changed the right one which solved some issues but not others. I'm fairly sure if they'd just changed the right one, I would have been good to go for a while longer on the left one, even though I think it was the original battery (which would make it manufactured in 2003).


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (KCPhaetonTech)*

Matt, can the dealer see "low voltage" faults that don't show up with a VAG-COM scan?


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (invisiblewave)*

I haven't used Vag-Com software but from what I have seen from their data on the forum it looks like they access all the modules. Therefor what the dealer sees and anyone with a VAG-COM sees should be the same information (I assume).


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (efk141)*


_Quote, originally posted by *efk141* »_VW called today and told me I need two new batteries... 

Hi Eileen:
That sounds pretty reasonable. You could probably defer replacing the right side battery (the starter battery) if you want to, but from a preventative maintenance perspective, it makes sense to replace both of them.
Most of us have replaced our batteries by now, an automotive battery normally only lasts about 5 or 6 years, and model year 2004 Phaetons are now 7 year old cars (most of them were built in 2003).
Michael


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## efk141 (Sep 9, 2006)

Thanks to all of you guys, your comments make me feel some better. I surely hope they find the problem, battery or otherwise. And Michael, yours was the only place I found out how long a battery should last. And I appreciate your comment on the pricing. Now I just have to trust the VW shop that they install the right batteries, and NOT the "wet" ones used in showrooms (if that is the correct term).
Eileen


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## efk141 (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael, and You, Too, Matt,
What's a woman to do? I picked up my car at 6 p.m. today after paying $773 for two new batteries and (unrelated) gas bulb. Service people told me I needed the new batteries and all the fault codes will go away. I was shown about 20-25 fault codes which all did go away after the new batteries, but I never had them before! Belore leaving dealer, I did a peter-pointer shake "if I still get all those gear lights on this car, I will be right back." I was assured it would NOT happen. Well, I drove out their drive and only went about a half a block when all the gear lights were on again, the car surged again, and it clunked again.
I turned right around and tried calling the dealer to be sure the service writer was there, but he left. I then called again (all of this within 40 seconds or so) to get the service mgr. He did not answer his phone, but within a minute I drove into the service driveway, had my aunt get out of the car to get the mgr. so that I did not have to turn off the motor or shift into park. Mgr. did see all the lit gears, then he drove it himself and acknowledged it needs another diagnostic.
I wanted to post this tonight (10:40 p.m. Thurs, 3.25.10) so that perhaps you guys could read it tomorrow and might be able to give me some insight as to what I could tell the service people to look for. As Matt said in his initial response, I think the car is still staying in 3rd gear. I also agree with you, Michael, there still could be a problem with the gear plate. That was my original problem.
They assured me it was because of old batteries. Well, maybe it was a good thing to get the new ones, but my original problem is still here. I am sure that if I took the car home and kept driving it in that mode, the transmission or gears would eventually be wrecked!
BTW, with all those codes showing up, they talked me into replacing the right front bulb, and I was very fortunate that the cost of removing the bumper was covered because a control unit was needed. It's a shame the dealer techs do not perform the bulb removal under the hood as you explained earlier on another post.
I am anxious to find out what words of wisdom they have for me tomorrow. The saga will continue.
Eileen


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (efk141)*

Eileen:
Sorry to hear the bad news. I didn't want to speak out of turn or alarm you unnecessarily but I really doubted that the batteries were going to solve your transmission problem. However, if you were on the original batteries replacing them was very likely the first thing to do to ensure good clean diagnostic information. However, as Matt has said the transmission goes into limp mode to protect itself from essentially self-destruction. So it's time for them to focus on why it goes into limp mode. Since all codes were cleared and you have new batteries, hopefully a new diagnostic scan will point to the cause. I think it should be there since limp mode was activated by the TCM. If the local mechanic is having difficulty with diagnostics, VW dealers have access to what I believe is called the Tech Line. The Tech Line advisors represent the "best" VW offers in human diagnostics and troubleshooting. 
Thanks for updating your situation and good luck again.


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (efk141)*

Hi Eileen,
The reason it defaults to 3rd gear is actually a symptom not a cause. The control unit will put the transmission in emergency mode when it feels there might be a fault that could possibly damage an internal component in the transmission. Like Michael stated it could be something as simple and basic as a shifter plate out of adjustment or perhaps even a brake light switch. These will in fact light all the PRNDS lights on the dash to make the driver aware there is a fault stored. To put it simply it's like a "check transmission light". Now that a fault is stored that same computer uses a pre-programmed list to prioritize if emergency running mode is necessary. If normal operation of the automatic transmission is no longer possible, then it will default to that. Most likely what you felt when the vehicle surged and clunked was the transmission activating emergency running mode. 
Now, what could the problem be? The Transmission Control Module is definitely seeing something that it doesn't like and that something comes from a very long list of possibilities. I read your previous posts "Warning Light Next to R on Gear Shift" and "TCM/ECM - No Communications". The best thing is to narrow down when the PRNDS light were fully illuminated. Do you know if they were on before you went in for service? If no, were they on right after you picked your vehicle up? If the answer is no, and they yes it's possible during the repair something might have been accidentally left unplugged or not secured in place. It might also just be that it's coincidence and a new problem has occurred. The new fault codes stored however are crucial in our new diagnosis. This topic got me to go to my books and do a little research. 
These are the _electrical_ internal components:
Transmission fluid level sensor
sensor for RPM
Sender 1 for hydraulic pressure
Sender 2 for hydraulic pressure
Sender for Transmission Output RPM
Transmission Control Module
Valve 1
Valve 2
Valve 3
Valve 4
Valve 5
Valve 6
Valve 9
Valve 10
Components that are also used with transmission:
Back up switch
Access/Start control module
Vehicle Electrical Control Module 
Multi Function Range switch
Tiptronic switch
Selector Level Switch
Steering Column Control Module
Shift Lock solenoid
Any of these failing could be a cause, as could a very simple sensor connector not being seated all the way. 


_Modified by KCPhaetonTech at 9:43 PM 3-25-2010_


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (Jxander)*

While I was busy typing that Jim made some other very good points. On another note, you might strongly recommend a *nice long test drive *to verify it's fixed







.


_Modified by KCPhaetonTech at 9:09 PM 3-25-2010_


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## efk141 (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (KCPhaetonTech)*

Got a call from the service writer this a.m. He now tells me that I need a new alternator! He said something about power should read 14.3, when it actually reads 10.0. They ordered the part and it should be in on Monday.
I am almost willing to bet my life that the alternator is not the problem. My little experience with cars (and it is very little) tells me there is something else wrong that is causing the car to go into the 3rd gear and then surge and clunk as I accelerated.
Fortunately, warranty covers this new action, but I hesitate to hear what is "down the road" on this Phaeton. Will keep you posted.
Eileen


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (efk141)*

Eileen:
I'm certainly glad to hear you have a warranty. 
Not to disparage the people working on your car, but to put $700 worth of batteries in your car and not check the alternator output is very shocking to me. With the built in voltmeter on the Phaeton it only requires looking at the gauge to see voltage is too low. They don't even have to connect a meter!








I see you live in Spring Hill and I know that area has really grown. However, I doubt the local VW dealers sold many Phaetons as new vehicles. Thus, it is not too likely they have Phaeton certified mechanics on the staff. I'd check with Phaeton Customer Care and make sure your chosen dealership has one or more Phaeton certified mechanics. If not, I'd consider going to St. Pete(Bert Smith?) or Tampa(Ferman?) for servicing. So far you have had a brake switch, shift mechanism, PRNDS sensor, and two batteries replaced. In addition, they are recommending an alternator which is no small job. All of this is due to a single concern that has yet to be resolved. Since you have a warranty most of this is at VW's or Fidelity's expense but I'd still be concerned about the quality of the work since diagnosing problems is apparently not their strength.
Most of the oldtimers on this forum will tell you that a good competent & caring Phaeton certified mechanic is a necessity to avoid continual headaches.


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## efk141 (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: ALL Gear Shift Lights On at One Time on Dash (Jxander)*

Hi Jim,
I purchased the car at Bert Smith and had them service for a while, but they are 65+ miles away and I wanted to go a little closer, so I chose Kuhn Honda VW in Tampa. I also was going to Kelly VW in Holiday, FL, but sad to say they had money problems and stopped servicing at the end of '09. Kuhn did get a 23-year VW mechanic that had been working at Kelly's, so I do feel somewhat comfortable with him. I think he has made the circuit of a few VW dealerships. I never met any of the other mechanics at Kuhn.
You are right, it is a good thing that I have the extended warranty! I must say that I am pleased to be able to write to the forum to get some answers and ideas. And today, I e-mailed the 4-page writeups to the service manager just so he could read some of the comments from you folks. Hope they help in resolving my problems.
Thanks again,
Eileen


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## efk141 (Sep 9, 2006)

Hi Jim,
First week VW dealer had the car, they drove it about 140 miles and found it "OK" (i.e., after the new batteries were installed). This time they drove it probably another 100 miles and just yesterday after 45 mi., all the gear lights came on, car went into limp mode, along with the surge and the clunk. Now they tell me I might need a new transmission control module ($1900), so they again have to call the warranty people, probably get another inspector out, and then proceed.
This car is way too complicated with all the computer stuff, sensors, etc.
So far, I have 2 new batteries, a new bulb for DRL (it caused a fault), new alternator - and perhaps this TCM.
Hopefully, this will do the trick.
Eileen


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: (efk141)*

Hi Eileen,
What happened to the charging system only being 10.2 Volts? Has that problem since been "repaired" by the alternator? I just can't see how they are going from an alternator to a trans control module (not to say the TCM wasn't the problem all along) I sure wish I could get my hands on the faults stored in controller 02 - Transmission Control Module.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (efk141)*

Eileen:
All I can say is wow! At least the current recommendation of a TCM directly relates to your initial concern of the tranny going into limp mode. I'd let them have it another couple of weeks and you might get a new engine, a set of air shocks, and an AC system.







Kidding of course. 
I always felt that you were heading for a new TCM or total transmission replacement. Let's just hope that they are right that the TCM will do it and don't ultimately have to replace the entire transmission.
Here's hoping you some good luck. You certainly deserve some. Even if everything is covered by your warranty, problems are still problems. I'm sure it will take some time before your Phaeton regains your confidence. However, if the repair work is properly done, Phaetons, as most owners will tell you, are pretty reliable cars.


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## efk141 (Sep 9, 2006)

To Both of You Guys (Matt and Jim),
Was called yesterday, told inspector approved order of new parts, something is coming in today, something else next Monday from L.A. Was told I probably should have the car back by Wednesday (it's only been 14 days since I have had my Phaeton--am driving a Jetta). I will let you all know what was replaced! ! !
Eileen


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (efk141)*

Eileen:
Glad everything is moving forward and hope you get your Phaeton back soon.


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## efk141 (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: (Jxander)*

Hello, it's me again. . .
Got my car Thursday, with 2 new batteries ($480.99 which includes labor), 1 new alternator or generator ($872 labor and part), 1 new headlight with a control unit (this item was $829 for light and unit), 1 new megatron (sp?), new bolts, and lots of other new stuff (labor and parts $2538), all of these items which only included $773 from me and the rest under my extended warranty.
However, just today, while visiting a relative, when I went to leave I could not start my car again. This time I had a new text warning on the dash which was in red text: STEERING DEFECTIVE WORKSHOP.
What in the world does that mean? A man came over and was messing around with the buttons that set your steering to your comfort position, (and he even was able to move my steering wheel without the power ON). He then turned the key again, and it started!
I sent email to the VW service manager and hopefully he will respond on Monday. In the meantime, does anyone know why that kind of message would not allow me to start my car. I am ready to pull my hair out - they had my car for 21 days, and now this.
Eileen


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (efk141)*

Eileen:
Here's a discussion of your error message with some experience of others. Glad you are getting things sorted out but I wish your problems would slow down so you could gain confidence in your ride.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3912590
Thanks for the update. The info you posted is interesting. It looks like they installed a new mechatronic unit in your transmission. I learned from Matt(KCPhaetonTech) that the mechatronic unit includes both a new valve body and the transmission control module(TCM or the tranny electronic brain). Hopefully that will solve your transmission problem. "Only" $872 for an alternator is good news for the rest of us because that means that the replacement does not require the removal of the V8 engine which gets quite expensive.


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## efk141 (Sep 9, 2006)

Thanks, Jim, for the link. All I can say is "Excellent." I will forward it to the VW Service Manager on Monday.
Eileen


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## blipa (Jun 22, 2017)

efk141 said:


> Feb. 2, 2010, I had my '04 Phaeton in for service (88,997 mi) because it would not start. After diagnosis, found faulty brake switch and shifter mechanism. Removed and replaced brake switch, shifter assy, and PRNDL sensor. On Feb. 17, '10, after I started car, it sounded like it was in wrong gear and all drives were lit on dash. Turned off, started again and everything was OK. Called service tech to let him know; he said he would notify mechanic.
> On Fri., 19 Mar. '10 at around 2:15 p.m., was driving and noticed again that all drive lights were lit on dash. Pulled off road, turned off motor, started again, and everything seemed OK. Went farther down road, entered super highway, pressed accel. to pass tractor-trailer, only to notice all gears were again lit, as well as a new engine outline (in orange). As I was passing the truck, car surged forward and then made a loud clunk, I drove at 60 on the 70 mph rd. to get to rest area. Turned off motor, looked in manual and it stated car should be taken to dealer. Since it was still "drivable" and I didn't need a tow, I tried calling the dealer 4 times, but only got through to an answering machine. I decided to take car to dealer.
> When I arrived, I spoke to the only service writer at the desk, and he was new. Told me they were too busy to take my car that day. I asked to speak to VW service manager, and he said I should not drive car. Car now has 91,509 mi.
> I was wondering if any of you, including Michael, know why all gear lights keep coming on at the same time, and why the car feels like it has to shift to the next gear. I am thinking the repairs on Feb.2 were not complete. I would appreciate hearing from you.



Hi there! I am having the same issue on my 2004 Phaeton. I was wondering, did you find out what was the issue? 


Kind Regards.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

There are numerous possible causes for this, ranging from nothing to worry about (intermittent paddle shift switch problem) to the transmission being toast, and everything in-between. To diagnose it, you need a scan. The most likely problem is probably an issue with the shifter switch.


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## Phaeton Phix-a-thon (May 3, 2016)

My "Shift plate" inside the console is shattered, and all my PRND... lights are on. I glued it, and everything was good, till it broke again. Extremely fragile. If the car is otherwise working normally, check this first.


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