# Frankenturbo F23 install + some



## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

got ahold of a frankenturbo F23, came in today, so thought id do a little build on it since nobody has done one yet from what i can see or has not posted yet 

setup (old)
02 337, pro imports Ko4-23 
made 267 whp 252 tq on less than 20 lbs, WITH 2 BENT RODS lol:laugh::laugh::laugh:
stock motor
386cc injectors
3 bar fpr
3" glh tb
eurojet race front mount
Revo ko4 tune for this kit
stock clutch
stock fuel pump


(new setup)
all of the above +
IE rods
ARP head bolts
Frankenturbo F23
550 cc injectors
255 walbro inline
Revo stg 3
southbend stg 2 clutch kit
billet single mass fw
and some new wheels lol :laugh:


hoping to see what she will make 320+ hoping for around 350 whp if all goes well lol but only the dyno will tell 

on with some pics


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## sprockeTT71 (Nov 14, 2010)

subscribed


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

350 wont be possible.320-330 though maybe. Thats what im hoping for. I havent made a thread because i want to have the dyno to post everything all at once. Been having serious oil leak problems with the feed line so just waiting for that. Good luck with that setup buddy!

Glad there are people out there with a similar mindset and goal!


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Any chance for a pic of the turbine wheel?


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## Mr.Harvey (Jan 24, 2010)

Watching, I will be doing the same setup come spring!


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

l88m22vette said:


> Any chance for a pic of the turbine wheel?


ill get some more pics when i get the old turbo off, and get some side by side pics also, to compare


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

DaBeeterEater said:


> hoping to see what she will make 320+ hoping for around 350 whp if all goes well lol but only the dyno will tell


320whp with hope of 350whp?

Hmmmm. Good luck trying.
What exhaust manifold are you using to support this flow?


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

why are people pushing this little tiny turbo so much? Why not just get something bigger/healthier?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

dont start with that big turbo stuff please. People want to use this turbo so let them be. 

I did 295 whp on stock exhaust manifold. 
Highflow is necessary to support more topend. I did 310whp on the highflow manifold. This turbo and a high flow should be able to push 320ish... Well atleast thats what I'm hoping for. Everything is just speculation until we get her on the dyno.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

im gonna port my stock mani for now, gonna get a tubular one down the road,

but all things considering, i already made 267 on a stock ko4-23, which is dam good all things considered, so ill see what happens, will be going to the dyno in a few weeks after i get the clutch and motor broke in,


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

mescaline said:


> why are people pushing this little tiny turbo so much? Why not just get something bigger/healthier?



please man i dont want to turn this into a bt thread debate, its not about making huge power, its about having a super fun daily, period, if i wanted to go bt i would have put a billet 62mm on it and made tons of power i dont want that, thats what toys are for. i dont need that on my daily man,


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

badger5 said:


> 320whp with hope of 350whp?
> 
> Hmmmm. Good luck trying.
> What exhaust manifold are you using to support this flow?


Bill -- I think we're looking at very low in the 300s on the stock manifold. But I also think the spool will be very drivable and the power delivery will be a lot of fun. To get more raw numbers, we'll need a different mani, of course. Spartiati and I are going to tinker with one shortly.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I love tinkering! haha ...


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

slappy_dunbar said:


> Bill -- I think we're looking at very low in the 300s on the stock manifold. But I also think the spool will be very drivable and the power delivery will be a lot of fun. To get more raw numbers, we'll need a different mani, of course. Spartiati and I are going to tinker with one shortly.


remember me (us) in the UK when you come up with something reliable..
it will sell very well here


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

well got the motor out last night, gonna tear it down tonight and hopefully at least get the rods in and the head back on tonight, will take lots of pics for ya guys of the turbos can already tell the impeller looks a lot bigger,


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Good luck dude! Finally got my car running as well. Turbo is great so far! Nice difference from my old hybrid. Gotta adjuat the wastegate and reset the mbc and im good to go. 

Spool seems faster than my old turbo. Maybe 100-150 rpms quicker spool. Ill try doing some logs but northeast is being hit by a monsoon haha.

You're gonna love this thing!


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

thanks man, lmk how it feels lol, i cant wait to get mine dont hopefully she will be done by monday, then i just got to wait on my ecu to get back:banghead:


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

spartiati said:


> dont start with that big turbo stuff please. People want to use this turbo so let them be.


He is making the point that these turbos arent made to support that much power and the wheels are to small to maintain an actual powerband. A gt28r or rs would be more expensive, but have a much longer powerband and be faster with the same peak hp


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I understand completely. For some a f23 swap will cost them the price of the turbo and the work. A gt28r or rs conversion will cost much more than just the turbo and injectors (plus any other supporting mods).

This is no replacement for a garret 28rs nor will it make the same peak power. But it is a cheaper alternative to a garret and in my opinion better than a t3 super 60. 

Regarding powerband i have a flat torque band from 3400-6000. Slight taper to 7000 rpms. Not bad for a daily/weekend racer.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

so got some actual progress got the motor out, and pulled apart but forgot my dam socket to take the head bolt off :banghead::banghead: so got to go to work tomorrow and get that so i can get back on it and finish her up

got a few pic of the stock ko4 and the F23 for comparason u can deff tell the difference for sure but cant wait to get it on there 

got to get everything cleaned up before it all goes back together u never know how dirty ur **** is until ya dig into it, :banghead:

sorry my camera suck ass lol



















































as u can see there is parts everywhere lol


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

cincyTT said:


> He is making the point that these turbos arent made to support that much power and the wheels are to small to maintain an actual powerband. A gt28r or rs would be more expensive, but have a much longer powerband and be faster with the same peak hp


whats so wrong with a k04 hybrid powerband which is like this then?


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

well got the motor all up and put together today, 

COME TO FIND OUT I HAD 2 BENT RODS lol :laugh::laugh:

everything went pretty smoothe, only problem i had was the bolts for the return line i took off my old turbo were too long, and my dumb ass forgot to tap the manifold for the egt, so back off it comes, :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## R32dreamer17 (Oct 11, 2007)

very interested...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

DaBeeterEater said:


> ... forgot to tap the manifold for the egt, so back off it comes,


Thanks for getting that done. I know of at least one person aside from me (BadgerBill) who is keenly interested in your EGTs on a stock manifold.

More pix please!


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

well she is almost there, got it pretty much all back together today, still got to get the oil return line on, and have to chop off the bolts for the down pipe elbow so i can put a new gasket in it,
hopefully will be able to fire it up tomorrow, 

got some more pics
and few of the bent rods :laugh:


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## Fyalinks (Jan 11, 2011)

:thumbup:nice to know there are other minds out there that think like mine, im going to get myself a set for IE rods next month to save myself the hassle, sad that i probably won't be able to do my f23 swap until late summer  would be great to see what this setup does with a good tubular mainfold


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah the only problem is there is really not any good tubular manifolds out there for a ko4


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

well its pretty much done but still waiting on my dam ecu to come in :banghead::banghead:
so much for overnight :thumbdown:

then the only thing left is to do the 255 install.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

be patient. something is brewing ... Testing will start in a week or two ... 

inline pump is cake to install compared to everything else you've done. Don't forget to Prime the turbo! 

You'll love the powerband with this turbo check out my dyno thread with it.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah finally got my ecu, she is up and running, drove it to work after lunch, just tiped in to it a little and man it spools fast as hellllll, cant wait to get the motor and clutch broken in and rip on it,

and my pump install is not gonna be as easy im putting it under the car next to the fuel pump, with some quick release fittings so it looks semi stock, and not in the engine compartment


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

pretty much everything is done minus putting some actual coolant in it, and charging up my ac, 
got the egt up and working, along with re torquing the head bolts, and checking everything out, no leaks from the turbo horray 

but i got the dam infamous 02m clunking from the solid flywheel :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: that is gonna be annoying as F***


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Bag o' marbles? :laugh:


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yep it sucks :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## Vr6Wannabe (Jan 16, 2007)

got the same car as you, and really interested in ur new setup! subscribed!


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Glad you caught it before windowing the block, yet more proof to not doubt the power of a torque spike. I hope the few people who said I was wrong are reading this thread...


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## liloldbie (Jun 23, 2007)

Make sure you let us know what software and injectors you went with plus any final tuning tweaks so we can have some real data to start from.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

as for the torque spikes and bendind rods, i dont think a stock ko4 will ever bend rods, pretty sure mine were bent cause when i first got the car there were boosting problems and i did not know what settings the revo was set on and it spiked 30lbs a few times and im pretty sure thats what did it,

and as of right now its on revo stg 3, with 550's, i got it on 15 lbs now and she rides, deffinately big improvemet over the stock ko423, it spools so much faster, i got full boost before around or before 3k, it hits FASTTTT, and pulls hard, i have not went over 6k yet, but it pulls for sure, MUCH more than the stock one 

gonna get the 255 installed this week and turn up the boost:laugh:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

If you get results anywhere close to what I'm getting you are going to love it dude! Traction control kicking in 3rd gear on the highway.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeahhh man i cant wait to get my pump on and hooked up, and i cant wait to try out the his high flow mani to :thumbup:


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## liloldbie (Jun 23, 2007)

Makes me want to try this turbo out w/ Maestro and some 440's at 4 bar.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

440's at 4 bar barely made it on my car. That's why I upgraded. Inectors duty cycles were too high for my liking. Check out my post on results with this turbo.


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## liloldbie (Jun 23, 2007)

Would Bosch 550's cut it on 3 bar or would you recommend 4 bar and a 630cc Maestro tune w/ tweaks?


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

550's should cut it just fine, thats what im using, and hell i can run 20 lbs on this thing on a stock fuel pump,


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

550's are the sweet spot. I was going to go with them but I have afew extra things down the road I may experiment with (like e85). I would rather the extra headroom to grow rather than buying and selling injectors.


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## blackgolf1990 (Jun 26, 2008)

Hey guys im thinking about running the same build. Pop on a FMIC with IE rods and new injectors, fuel pump. As for the high flow mani, where would I find that? And since I don't know jack about engines, i'm going to have to take it to a shop. Can anyone give me a quote on getting the IE rods done? I've heard many different stories as far as labor... I've heard 300-400$ and then 1000 to 1500$$ just for rods. Can anyone shed some light on it?

Sadly my stock turbo on my GLI is going (leaking oil down the discharge pipe) So I figure i'll slowly upgrade with the IE rods and FMIC then pop on the F23 with fuel injectors and fuel pump with high flow mani and new oil lines as well as upgrade my revo stage 1 to 3.


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## DowNnOuTDubin (Jun 21, 2006)

Seems like this will be a nice build.. 

I don't mean to thread jack but I have a few questions. I've been thinking about the F4 for some time. Couldn't I just go this route and limit the boost some until I get rods?


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah u could run 15 lbs all day on this turbo as long as u ran a mbc so it dont spike. and u would be good to go. 

and spartiati what kind of gas mileage are u getting with the maestro n 630's, 

im pissed im still getting 23mpg and thats driving it easy and 80% of it on the hwy. 
exactly the same that i got before and im pissed

i dont know wtf is going on, i know this stupid e10 gas sucks but i did not think it sucked that bad


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I can't say it got worse.I stay about the same with gas mileage. Check you fuel trims. Also are you running the 550 @ 3 bar? If so I would throw a 3 bar instead of a larger one to start. Other thing I can think of is that the ecu is still adapting and will take a tank or two to get accustomed. 

You are also on a brand new engine (talking piston rings now). They need to seat properly before you get max cylinder pressure and motor running 100%. Gauge mileage after 1000 miles of driving.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah fuel trims are -3% right now on long terms and +1.6 on short terms so its pretty dam spot on 
and yeah im running them with the 3 bar, still no change and i got like almost 800 miles on it already so it should be bout broken in by now, the car hauls ass on 15, hell it was rolling the tires in 3rd this moorning on the way to work :laugh:


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## klodkrawler05 (May 1, 2009)

subscribed to see the dyno results!


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## DowNnOuTDubin (Jun 21, 2006)

DaBeeterEater said:


> yeah u could run 15 lbs all day on this turbo as long as u ran a mbc so it dont spike. and u would be good to go.


Last question I have. If I were to do that would I be about even with the F4, Or does this turbo hit that much more quicker of a torque spike?

Thanks :beer:


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

i dont know bout the f4 but this thing spools FAST!!!! it literaly hits boost almost instantly, if u are below 3k it takes about 5 seconds, if u are above 3k it takes like 1-2 sec and u are at full boost,


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

if you are worried about rods I would do the f23 and limit boost to no more than 18psi... F4 will spool faster and create much more torque down low.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

the f23 makes such good linear power its hard to go with anything else that is similar sized, it be a waste, i love how this turbo spools and has power up top to, i cant wait to get the tubular mani on it and see what she does :laugh:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Results with this turbo Just to interest anyone following this thread as well as anyone interestedi n the F23 in general 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5205941-1st-Official-Frankenturbo-F23-Dyno


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5215151-Frankenturbo-F23-meets-Maestro


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

man got the car on 18 lbs last night and she Fin rides out, i swear it will do 110 mph as it sits, its way faster than my ls1 rx7 and it went 110, cant wait to get this dam fuel pump on it, hopefully tonight i can get it on a lift after work and get it plumbed up

but i am very very impresses with this turbo, spools super fast, and pulls hard up top u dont feel it fall off at all its very sweet :thumbup: big props to doug on a well built turbo :thumbup:


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

What water/meth setup are you running? You've made some nice numbers for sure.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I had done 109 mph @ 13.5 with a 2.4 60' on my old hybrid setup with less torque and less power. With all the extra torque and power im sure itll do 110+ down the 1/4.

Running snow performance stage 2 with 2x 225 cc nozzles. Going to run larger nozzles soon .


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

DaBeeterEater said:


> cant wait to get this dam fuel pump on it, hopefully tonight i can get it on a lift after work and get it plumbed up


Did your VAG-COM come in? I'm really interested in seeing what the Revo Stage 3 is doing.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

well got teh 255 plumed up and wired in, time to turn up the boost after i get the lm1 hooked up, whooooo, 

and hopefully getting ahold of the vag com early this week some time,


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## dirosama (Oct 20, 2008)

When do you expect this to be done and have it dyno'd?


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

well now the car is completely done, i got the 255 in and wired up this weekend, and got some isues sorted out, i popped 3 coils this weekend:banghead::banghead:
only problem now is the boost is wierd, im gonna try my mbc tomorrow, it will hold 20 strong when it wants to, been messing with the revo settings and it wont hold a consistent boost, it will spike like 25 ish then right down to 15 then back to 22 then 18 then hold 20 lol its fin wierd, hopefully the mbc will help it might try the mbc in line with the n75 and might help the spiking i dont know

hopefully in a few weeks i can get to the dyno, maybe the first weekend in april, i got a wedding and some birthdays coming up soon so the next few weekend are full up,


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

DaBeeterEater said:


> as for the torque spikes and bendind rods, i dont think a stock ko4 will ever bend rods, pretty sure mine were bent cause when i first got the car there were boosting problems and i did not know what settings the revo was set on and it spiked 30lbs a few times and im pretty sure thats what did it,
> 
> and as of right now its on revo stg 3, with 550's, i got it on 15 lbs now and she rides, deffinately big improvemet over the stock ko423, it spools so much faster, i got full boost before around or before 3k, it hits FASTTTT, and pulls hard, i have not went over 6k yet, but it pulls for sure, MUCH more than the stock one
> 
> gonna get the 255 installed this week and turn up the boost:laugh:



what???
Seriously?

Just not the case... they bend/break rods on k04's more than any other motor..


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

where are u guys gapping ur plugs at, and what coils are u using and what plugs, im haveing all kinds of trouble with missfires already, 
i got the ngk r's the 6es plugs gapped at 30 right now and it seems a whole lot better but im still popping coils like a mofo, this crap is pissing me off, 

might just have to get some bolt down coils, and call it a day


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

You should not be using 6e's at all... too hot of a plug and will cause misfires. I am running bkr8eix but was running bkr7eix for a while gapped to .026... 

I am also using the latest stock coilpacks.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah i was thinking that but i figured 8's were to cold i was gonna try some 7's, but right now i still got the 6's in gapped to 32 now and its still doing good so far, gues ill pick up some 7's tomorrow and keep them around if i still have problems


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## dirosama (Oct 20, 2008)

DaBeeterEater said:


> yeah i was thinking that but i figured 8's were to cold i was gonna try some 7's, but right now i still got the 6's in gapped to 32 now and its still doing good so far, gues ill pick up some 7's tomorrow and keep them around if i still have problems


32 is the stock gap. You should be somewhere between 26-28


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

im running 8's with no issue. If your not going to run meth I would do 8's ... You can do 7's with meth.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

put some denso iridium 7's in it the other day and its running great now, no more missfires :thumbup:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

make sure you log block 011 20 and 031 to make sure overall timing, timing pull and afr is all happy!


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## Gberg888GLI (Nov 1, 2006)

need to read all of this... im looking into the fh4 and the f23... just cannot decide.


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## Fyalinks (Jan 11, 2011)

Gberg888GLI said:


> need to read all of this... im looking into the fh4 and the f23... just cannot decide.


 Might as well go f23 dude, similar price with much more potential, and rods are recommended for both.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

spartiati said:


> make sure you log block 011 20 and 031 to make sure overall timing, timing pull and afr is all happy!


 a/f is good to over 30 lbs :laugh: lol that is not a problem i should hopefully be picking up the vag com from a friend tomorrow, and i need to log the timing to see what the different settings on the revo does, or if my sps controller is even working, but she seems to be riding out pretty dam good right now, my only problem is my boost is not consistent, i can only get it to hold 18 lbs right now, 

gonna try my mbc when i get a chance to see what that does, see if it will hold near 25


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

DaBeeterEater said:


> my only problem is my boost is not consistent, i can only get it to hold 18 lbs right now,
> 
> gonna try my mbc when i get a chance to see what that does, see if it will hold near 25


 I don't think that Revo file is going to get you to 25psi. Not from what I've seen...


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Well one nice thing about revo coupled with there sps3 controller is that you can tweak timing and boost maps. By tweak i mean gross tuning that is. He can turn up requested by running a higher boost setting on the sps3 controller. Same thing with timing. 

Thats if you arent already running boost at setting 9. I think stock revo is boost 6 timing 3? Its been ages since i messed with revo. If not boost 8 should get you to spike close to 24-25 psi and hold maybe a touch more than you are now.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

i got the boost on 5 now and it will spike 25, but then immediately go back to 20, if im cruising around or on the hwy it will hit 30 psi, thats how i know my af is good till then lol, im stil lmessing wiht it a little at a time to see what each setting is doing, if it is doing anything at all, but that boost map would explain why it only holds 20 thought, and it would explain the spike down low cause this turbo spools 8-900 rpm earlier lol


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

on the contrary there shouldnt be a spike if the boost request is the way it is. N75 should be regulating and keeping it at the requested mark. 

Are you running a stock n75? If not that is def one possible cause. If not then I would run the mbc in parallel and use it to cap the pressure to 25psi


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

spartiati said:


> on the contrary there shouldnt be a spike if the boost request is the way it is. N75 should be regulating and keeping it at the requested mark.
> 
> Are you running a stock n75? If not that is def one possible cause. If not then I would run the mbc in parallel and use it to cap the pressure to 25psi


 it will spike if the actuators not stock open pressure, which it is'nt... 
mbc to cap its spike and get your revo boost set to 9, where it will hold more top end boost 
I run these (k04 based cars which suffer spike on std k04's, std n75's) to 20-22psi on mbc in parallel with n75, and generally make more power.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

no i got the stock n75, i was gonna try the mbc with it also but i dont know if i need to put it before or after the n75


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

DaBeeterEater said:


> no i got the stock n75, i was gonna try the mbc with it also but i dont know if i need to put it before or after the n75


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

ohh got it thank :thumbup:


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

worth mentioning this should be a ball and spring type mbc not a bleed valve


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

ohh dam i got a bleed valve mbc, i have never had a ball n spring one that ever worked right, i got a turbo xs mbc that always works,


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

slappy_dunbar said:


>


 
Why bother having the N75 in this setup? Why not just run the MBC alone?


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## Fyalinks (Jan 11, 2011)

Checkdaleval uses a boostvalve mbc and and it works fine for him, you can try that one, and if you have already then find out from him how his is hooked up.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

I use Forges Unos over here. Works a treat


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

sabbySC said:


> Why bother having the N75 in this setup? Why not just run the MBC alone?


 for those that want to retain part throttle from being jumpy with the boost then they do it this way. I personally just modulate boost with my foot. more gas more boost. I aldo run only 12 psi for everyday and have a flip switch and pneamatic solonoid valve to switch to my mbc and higher 22-23 psi.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

i still dont get why this stupid thing gets less than 22mpg, , this is pissing off, 
and im driving it easy as hell, this is stupid,


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## imalleuro'd (Nov 8, 2010)

DaBeeterEater said:


> i still dont get why this stupid thing gets less than 22mpg, , this is pissing off,
> and im driving it easy as hell, this is stupid,


 Im having a similar issue, either pegged or granny shifting at 2k every gear I still get no more than 230 miles on a tank. I have Revo Select so Im gonna take the car out today and fiddle with it a bit on the settings to see where shes at.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

DaBeeterEater said:


> i still dont get why this stupid thing gets less than 22mpg, , this is pissing off,
> and im driving it easy as hell, this is stupid,


 Log your A/F mix. Heck, log EVERYTHING!


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

What are the ambient air temps? 

Anything below 40 and really expect to get what you are seeing. Colder air is more dense. More air means more fuek for the same lambda/afr. I average 200-250 mix city and highway in the winter. Summer is 250-300 mix and can get close to 400 if cruisin just highway. My best was 405 with the empty light on for the last 10 miles. Roadtrip. I wouldnt be too concerned with mpg in the winter. Wait till the summer. 

I forgot that gas in the winter has higher level of ethanol. That also contributes to ****tier gas mileage.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah i have been messing with it, got a problem at idle, the a/f dips into the 12's at times and stumbles dont know whats causing it, it just does it then goes back to the 14's when it idles in the 16's sometimes it idles great, but wont stay there, think i might have a exhasut leak, so thats probably not helping, got to try n see where thats coming from and take care of it, 
but im lucky if i get 250-270 miles to a tank when the light comes on, and that is on the hwy or city it dont matter, 
and its sure as hell not cold down here the coldest its been is 55 at night its in teh 80's during the day,


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

Fyalinks said:


> Checkdaleval uses a boostvalve mbc and and it works fine for him, you can try that one, and if you have already then find out from him how his is hooked up.


 I am running the boostvalve in overboost configuration like the illustration that slappy posted and its worked great for me so far


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

post up a log of 031 and 011... I wanna see what your lambda request are. Could be what the file is requesting.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

DaBeeterEater said:


> yeah i have been messing with it, got a problem at idle, the a/f dips into the 12's at times and stumbles dont know whats causing it, it just does it then goes back to the 14's when it idles in the 16's sometimes it idles great, but wont stay there, think i might have a exhasut leak, so thats probably not helping, got to try n see where thats coming from and take care of it,
> but im lucky if i get 250-270 miles to a tank when the light comes on, and that is on the hwy or city it dont matter,
> and its sure as hell not cold down here the coldest its been is 55 at night its in teh 80's during the day,


 hows your front lambda probe? 
seen this on a failing sensor... and it would oscillate then clear at times for no apparent reason.. eventually popped an internal circuit error code, replaced it and it was all good after


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

its brand new just put it in when i did the swap, i think i got a dam vacc leak somewhere and i cant find it, its pissing me off, think it might be the big plastic one piece one way valve thing that t's off to the brake booster n stuff, think it might have a crack, sprayed some brake clean down there the other day and it made the idle fluctuate, so gonna pullthat off tonight and see how it looks


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

well found a vacuum leak last night and found that my TIP was half on the turbo inlet, took me 2 hours to get it on to where it wont come off again :banghead: 
car seems to idle slightly better, 

gonna pick up a vag come tomorrow and so i can finally log some stuff


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

make sure to clear the adaptations and do a TB alignment now that you solved that situation. It would adapt itself just by driving it but may as well make it a clean slate to adapt from. 

On a side note ima do a test and tune autocross session on sunday with the BMWCCA in my area. Lets see how my little Frankenturbo'd VDub holds up to some M-Series cars.


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## Fyalinks (Jan 11, 2011)

On a side note ima do a test and tune autocross session on sunday with the BMWCCA in my area. Lets see how my little Frankenturbo'd VDub holds up to some M-Series cars.[/QUOTE] 


Good luck vdub bud :thumbup:


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah did that lol, and i fixed a exhaust leak i found today, that seemed to help a lot to lol


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

woohooo got teh vag com today, all set to go now,


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

car is running pretty good now, waiting on the new exhaust manifold ( thanks doug), then off to the dyno in 2 weekends and see what she does, car runs stout though, it pulls hard up top, the mid range sucks but thats cause of timing curve, not the sweet ass turbo lol, and it runs little fat on the a/f but hell its a off the shelf tune so it is what it is


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## hollywood084 (Feb 9, 2010)

From what I understand, the f23 puts out a bit more power than the f4t?


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## jennekke (Jan 8, 2010)

From what I've seen, the tunes out there don't have as high an onset of torque, but have a flatter power band from 3.5-7k than the f4h. It means it outputs more torque/hp on the top end.

Both serve their purpose, and it's hard to deny the fun of ~300 wtq at 3.5k on the f4h.


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## hollywood084 (Feb 9, 2010)

jennekke said:


> From what I've seen, the tunes out there don't have as high an onset of torque, but have a flatter power band from 3.5-7k than the f4h. It means it outputs more torque/hp on the top end.
> 
> Both serve their purpose, and it's hard to deny the fun of ~300 wtq at 3.5k on the f4h.


So the difference is different power curves?


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## jennekke (Jan 8, 2010)

The f4h spikes earlier and harder from the dynos posted here. It's at ~300 ft lbs of torque by 3-3500 rpms and then tapers down to a little over 200 by redline... 6700 or 6800 from the dynos I've seen. ~260 peak wheel hp. The torque spike (max torque) is within 30 ft lbs and so is peak hp between all the stage 2/2+ tunes I've seen revo, uni, apr (k04 file)

The f23 from dynos posted spike to under 250, but climbs to close to 300 and doesn't taper off to under 200 until after 7000 rpms. 300+ peak wheel hp 

I don't think you'd be disappointed either way.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

In my updated dyno i have 300 lb/ft of torque by 3500 through 5500 which it then starts to taper. F4 should have more torque lower in the rpms.


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## Fyalinks (Jan 11, 2011)

DaBeeterEater said:


> car is running pretty good now, waiting on the new exhaust manifold ( thanks doug), then off to the dyno in 2 weekends and see what she does, car runs stout though, it pulls hard up top, the mid range sucks but thats cause of timing curve, not the sweet ass turbo lol, and it runs little fat on the a/f but hell its a off the shelf tune so it is what it is


Can't wait to see the difference the new high flow manifold makes. Btw the f23 is a more rounded turbo than the f4h.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm starting to build a new (to me) 1.8t this spring to be used in a Cq or A4 and I'm planning on going with the F23. 

I have a few questions, they rely on some speculating. But hey, why not...

So, the motor is an AMU with AEB head. Supertech VS,IC ex stems, Coated intake stems and ST springs. It's a toss up on the cams right now but the rest of the head is already built. It can handle alot higher rpms that the turbo can, but that more for safety than revving to 8k.

The speculation comes here,

with an AMU block, the AEB head I mentioned (will be P&P'd too), Con-Rods, and the main kicker here is to run ethanol or W/M with C16 or Q16 and try to pull 30psi out of this thing. 
(these are the main components there's more supporting mods but those are obvious)

With this formula do you think pulling 350whp 350+wtq could be possible? (Think of the TT running ethanol that's running K04 and 30psi at 300+whp and 375+wtq) 

Second part, I plan on running nitrous again on this car will this turbo keep me restricted to a 75shot like the K04-001 did?


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## jennekke (Jan 8, 2010)

This the one you're talking about? The one WITHOUT w/m is quite a bit lower. Unless you're suggesting everyone running this turbo have w/m? I imagine a few will, but there's a lot of people looking for a DD and keeping up with another point of maintenance is something most aren't willing to do.

f23 with w/m

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










f23 without w/m

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










f4h without w/m


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

well look up username Madmax... he has a tt225 with stock turbo and running e85. he managed 360wtrq and 285allwheel hp out of the stock turbo. now with all the bells and whistles you have those figures are def possible,


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

jennekke said:


> This the one you're talking about? The one WITHOUT w/m is quite a bit lower. Unless you're suggesting everyone running this turbo have w/m? I imagine a few will, but there's a lot of people looking for a DD and keeping up with another point of maintenance is something most aren't willing to do.


The differences with spartiati's car between plain pump gas and running the w/m were ultimately next to zero. The gains he drew out of the car while dyno tuning were purely owing to tweaks done in Maestro's timing maps. Take a look at where we ended up. 

This is 
1) run on straight pump NO METH
2) run with W/METH running via dual 225cc nozzles


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

The meth didnt make a huge difference. At most i believe it was 10-15lb/ft of torque in the midrange. 

On a stronger note the exhaust gas temperatures were over 100* cooler. I think that alone should justify its importance in the whole hybrid turbo scene. Keeping everything cool and happy!


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## jennekke (Jan 8, 2010)

I agree with you completely on the benefits of w/m, but people don't even want to grease up their dv ever other oil change... forget having to worry about a refillable tank that'll make your engine go boom if you let it run dry. Well... if you advance timing to make more power and aren't just using it for keeping intake temps down...


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Sad but true. With that said those are the e-tuners as i call em. Do all the talking they want on the forums but cant handle a wrench. Ultimately those are the ones that shouldnt be screwing with their cars in the first place. 

We'll see what happens when f23 and maestro meet a highflow manifold in due time. Thats when i think this turbo will shine!


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## leftside (Sep 25, 2005)

Watching this


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

high flow manifold is here should be going on tonight hopefully :laugh::laugh:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Goodluck on the install seen the clearances and itll be fun.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah lol hopefully it wont be to bad lol


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## leftside (Sep 25, 2005)

I'm curious about the F23 MK4 application.

So, other than what's included - turbo, downpipe adapter and inlet, what else is needed to make it complete?

1. TT 225 manifold
2. TT Oil/coolant feed and return lines
3. Charge pipe adapter if using stock charge pipe

Obviously software with the required injectors and MAF is needed too....and possibly a fuel pump. 

Is there anything I'm missing, or is any of the above incorrect?


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## DowNnOuTDubin (Jun 21, 2006)

I would like to add to the last post.. What if I was to use the Uni Stage 2+ (for the k04). Would I be better off with the big turbo 550cc software? I was planning on running about 15-18PSI until I get rods (which would be the best start).


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

got the manifold on and my car sounds like a subaru now :banghead::banghead: but seems to do work, gonan get a boost leak fixed today and get some logs tonight and see what it looks like


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## imalleuro'd (Nov 8, 2010)

post pics of the bay with the new manifold! Just talked to Doug today and he says once I see how everything is working out for you on the new manifold Im gonna get my order in!


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

sorry butpics suck


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

How does it feel?


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

dont know yet i had a dam silicone hose blow up on me and i rigged it for now but i think its still leaking :banghead::banghead: got to call eurojet tomorrow see if i can even still get the hose or else im back to making **** for it


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

What kind of silicon connector do you need? I have a box of random ones accumulated through the years. If i have the piece needed throw me whatever to ship it down and lets get you some dyno numbers.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

the hose from the throttle body to the intecooler pipe inside the fender well, im gonna see if i have the stock one laying around, just looked on eurojets website and the dam thing is 115 bucks :banghead:, that is rediculous, but if i dont have the stock one, im gonna need a 2.5" 45, and a 90, should do the trick,


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

screw it i just ordered a new one and got 2 day shipping, i got to have it so it is what it is


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## Fornazari (Sep 19, 2005)

Following... 
Just adjusting others things before ordering a F23 kit.. Think will be the first one in Brazil..

About the tubular exhaust mani... it causes me nightmares!! Already tried one of this kind and it leaks every week... Don´t know if it were a low quality but don´t want to try anymore...

Hope yours be good!

Good Luck!


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## Fornazari (Sep 19, 2005)

One fast question...
Is there a way to install this turbo with the OEM intercooler piping ? (OEM INTERCOOLER SETUP)


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

well he is still working on the tubular mani, trying to get soem kinks worked out, so im sure he wont be selling any in the near future, i was the test dummy lol, but i can tell ya it deffinately dont leak thats for sure, its working good so far, and as soon as i get my boost leak fixed ill be logging it to see if there is a difference


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

good luck with it..
I see you will be watching the egt's


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah they went down a little bit maybe like 75 degrees at wot, and went down at idle also, used to be over 800 all the time at idle now its under 800, and at wot in a 2nd -4th gear pull it got to like 1680 ish, and now its around 1600-1620 ish


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## 225TTRoadster (Oct 24, 2007)

l88m22vette said:


> Glad you caught it before windowing the block, yet more proof to not doubt the power of a torque spike. I hope the few people who said I was wrong are reading this thread...


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

DaBeeterEater said:


> ...at wot in a 2nd -4th gear pull it got to like 1680 ish, and now its around 1600-1620 ish


You were running 100˚F hotter than Spartiati on the same stock TT225 manifold. Same EGT probe. What could be the difference? A/F? Your exhaust system?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

water meth will make a difference. 

Also his manifold is tapped at the collector, preturbo, where mine is post turbo. 

Richer air fuel ratio also tends to run hotter as there is more fuel being burned, which that revo file is running half a point if not a touch more richer than me.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

that is also on a 3 gear pull, if i do just a 3rd gear pull it wont go over 1550 probably ill have to look at it, might not even be that, even with the stock mani i dont remember going over 1550 on just a single 3rd gear pull


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## Fyalinks (Jan 11, 2011)

What would be a good (bumper mod free) smic/fmic to complement this turbo as I'm not interested in running a w/m kit.


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## hollywood084 (Feb 9, 2010)

I've heard good things about tyrolsport SMIC, it's expensive though.


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

Fyalinks said:


> What would be a good (bumper mod free) smic/fmic to complement this turbo as I'm not interested in running a w/m kit.


I just bought a eurosportacc fmic. I haven't installed it yet, but it looks to be relatively mod free. Not a whole lot of cutting is called for in the install instructions. I will post up after I get it installed and let you know if it is as good or worse than they claim....


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## Fyalinks (Jan 11, 2011)

hatetolovemydub said:


> I just bought a eurosportacc fmic. I haven't installed it yet, but it looks to be relatively mod free. Not a whole lot of cutting is called for in the install instructions. I will post up after I get it installed and let you know if it is as good or worse than they claim....


sounds good, thanks man :thumbup:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Any larger smic will need some trimming to fit. Not bumper trimming but below the headlight assmbly. As for fmic if you have a jetta you have alot more room to start with. The eurosport fmic needs slight trimming on the lower part of the bumper on gtis. Eurojet street needs alittle trimming on gti and none on jettas. Eurojet race.... haha. Prepare to hack away!

With that said i think a smic will suffice for a daily driver, drag racer and autocrosser at 20psi. For road course work just go for the fmic. Considering the prices are pretty much the same 300-750 for a smic and 200-1000 for fmic, i would just go with a fmic to start.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

my eurojet race did not need much trimming just little bit it was not bad at all


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## Fyalinks (Jan 11, 2011)

DaBeeterEater said:


> my eurojet race did not need much trimming just little bit it was not bad at all


sounds great, i have a jetta so hopefully it can fit without me needing to trim anything, thank you all the the advice :thumbup:


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## Fyalinks (Jan 11, 2011)

is anyone running the new tube and fin bfi smic with the f23? just curious.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Im pretty sure there is only a handfull (you can probably count on your two hands) of people with this kit. It has literally just come out in the past two months. Once people see afew others results youll see the popularity increase. 

My eurojet street kit seems to be doing a great job with and without watermeth . With that said ill eventually upgrade to something with a slightly larger endtank for some better flow. Am i hoping for a big difference, No. But i figure instead of flowing through 2" diameter endtanks, 2.5" may help maintain flow and velocity 

Any updates with logs or dynos?


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

will have logs and dyno numbers for the tubular mani tomorrow :thumbup:

and yeah my eurojet race ic does a pretty dam good job, just got to get rid of the stupid ass chrome stainless pipes, they retain so much dam heat its not even funny, that is the next thing to go if i keep the car


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I would personally keep thr stainless pipes. You can get better clamping on the tbolt clamps. No blown off coupling or crushed pipes.

Any updates.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

update sucks ass

something is up with the car and is pulling all the timing out of it, it only did 262, which is less than the stock k04 that made 267, but there is absolutely no timing in mid range, and not much up top something is up wiht it and i dont knwo what, 

steve, i sent doug all my logs that i could get and im sure he will forward them to u, 

i got 2 good runs out of it and it pulled like a raped ape but spun the tires on the dyno so it did nto get a reading, but it had a good amount of timing in it and the air flow was wayyy up, should have been a easy 300+ hp pass


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

What kind of dyno? How much boost where you running? What gear were you doing the dyno pull?

Looking over your logs i agree that ur timing is low, but considering you arent running water meth its not that bad. I would fix that leaning issue you are having midrange. Once you find the source of that you will be gold. 

Think of it this way. Your computer is requesting .77 lambda. The car is giving it at that point 1.1+ lambda. Thats requesting 11.x:1 and the car is actually getting 16:1. At peak torque which is the most load on the motor thats one of the most dangerous spots to be leaning out that severely. The ecu sees this and in turn cuts timing down overall. 

Look everything over. Just for kicks unplug the maf sensor and do a log from 2000-7000 of 031, 011 and 020. Just to see what the ecu does when there is no registered airflow.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Also i forgot to ask if that was actual hp measured or with correction factor applied? Sae, std? All those play a big role in results. Email me the dyno files if you got em.

Trust me i know how you feel. First time i put my hybrid on (way before f23 was around) i dynod on my revo software and it made 250 hp and 240 lbft of torque. All i did was go to a eurodyne 440 file and went back to dyno and thr car made 285hp. People neglect software but that is a prefect example of how much of a difference it can make. Also looking at my thread you can see what i picked up with just messing with timing in maestro.

Get that fueling and airflow mess sorted and im sure you will be much happier!


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

it was a land and sea dyno, we had it on a 50% load while doing the pulls, 
and the car was never lean before i dont know whats doing that all of a sudden, 
did u see the 2 logs where it put like 8 ish degrees back in the mid range, thats when the car picked up really good and went like hell lol, and the air flow numbers came back up and everything, 
im gonna make a thing to pressurize the intake to see if can find some leaks, and also do the exhaust to, im like so over this **** i want it to be done with,


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

ok so i think i found the problem

looked at the knock sensor retard during a pull, and cyl 1 is good cyl 2 is 1.5 degrees ( understandabl)
cyl 3 ish 3-4 degrees, and cyl 4 is 4-6 degrees

and i think the clunking tranny from the single mass flywheel swap is causing the problems, 
think the clunking is so bad its tripping out the knock sensors


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Clunking tranny? If you are refering to flywheel chatter that isnt there when gear is engaged. 

Are your one step colder on plugs and gapped tightly? I run mine at .025 ... I felt even .028 wasnt closed enough.


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## VTFuturaYellowGTi (Jan 1, 2007)

*Yessss*

Just got my F23 the other day from doug looks awesome, not trying to thread jack, but I am going to be working with Mark at Malone tuning to see what I can get out of my AMU engine with 630cc injectors, FMIC, 3'' turbo back, inline fuel pump, tip, dv relocation, and r1 dv, and port and polished head should be interesting using malone tuning, everyone who has used them loves the tunes mark has developed and can customize for your car.


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## Fyalinks (Jan 11, 2011)

*@ VTFuturaYellowGTi*

nice, im also going with 630cc injectors and malone. currently working on my supproting mods though, in the process of putting together my fmic kit. decided go go with neuspeed's piping kit for the clean look (which they are willing to sell without the core unlike other companies like eurosportacc) and a nice universal core i found rated for at least 400bhp. good luck on the tune. looking for ward to see what it does :thumbup:


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

spartiati said:


> Clunking tranny? If you are refering to flywheel chatter that isnt there when gear is engaged.
> 
> Are your one step colder on plugs and gapped tightly? I run mine at .025 ... I felt even .028 wasnt closed enough.


yeah the chatter from going from a dual mass to single mass on the 02m, its rediculous i hate it 

and i got 7's in it gapped at 32 and it seems to be working great, no missfires anymore especially since i put a rubber block between the rear knock sensor, now its not retarding the timing in 3+4
and it seems to be good, no i just have to figour out whick maf sensor is which for sure i thought i knew but the data is not confirming that,


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Chatter will not cause the knock retard. When the tranny is engaged there shouldnt be knock. Unless there is something is up with ur tranny. I would def close that gap up. That will affect timing pull especially in the upper rpms. Above 5500 rpms.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

well if i close up the gap i get misfires and i start popping coils, thats what happened to me before that is why i opened up the gap, and im pretty sure its the tranny making it trip out the knock sensors, i put a rubber block inbetween and no more retard, check out the logs i sent doug last night, looks a LOT better, still think i might have a bad maf but not sure,

and i know the tranny should not cause knock, but if i have ever heard a dam o2m with a single mass fw, then u would know this **** is loud as hell man its rediculous lol

i sent u the logs to man


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

You're preaching to the quior. I have an 02m with a 6lb. Yes 6 lb aluminum flywheel. Trust me it isnt the tranny. If you are popping coils make sure they are the latest revision. Also if gap is too small like below .020 then you may cause a short causing coils to go. Make sure its a proper gapping tool as well. otherwise the only reason i see you going through coils is a bad ground.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

can somebody with a stock 1.8t maf, take the sensor out and give me the bosche number off of it, 
should be like F00c2g2 *** need to make sure i got the right sensor


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## mk4boost (Jul 31, 2010)

any updates? I tried getting that sensor off the other day for ya but naturally I lost that size star key to get it off :banghead:


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

i got a new maf, and car is all straight, but the stupid revo software if so god dam tweaky, its pull to much timing so it will never make power, 
if anybody is gonna get this turbo u HAVE to get maestro so u can do a custom tune for it or u will never get the potential out of it, DO NOT GET REVO


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## Fornazari (Sep 19, 2005)

I would recommend UNICHIP, but you´ll need standard ECU.

Piece of cake!


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## VTFuturaYellowGTi (Jan 1, 2007)

*Frankenturbo F23*

So finally got some time to put my frankenturbo in my 2001 TT 225. First had to get the ko4 out, that was fun, ended up cutting away a little bit of the rain tray to get it out, also had to remove the exhaust manifold, not much room back there. Got the frankenturbo in no, altering or fabrication needed bolted right up, all lines were exactly were they were suppost to be. The frankenturbo spools about 500rpms faster that the k04, boost pressure was lower with the frankenturbo, its spikes at about 21 and settles down to 20psi, with my ko4 and my APR tune it would spike at 23-24 and settle down to 21. I have a liquid tt in the car, it said with my k04 and APR tune is was getting 236bhp, with the frankenturbo and the APR tune I am now getting 260bhp. The big diffrence was the EGT with the k04 I was between 950-960 degrees celcius, now im down around 905-910 degrees. Really like the way the car feels now, drives better, less boost but more hp. 

Gonna start work with mark from malone this week, going with a custom tune from him with 630cc injectors, but cant put the injectors on till the fuel pump comes in so soon. Once I get all that down I will start logging and am currently looking for a awd dyno so I can get some numbers, will keep everyone informed. Im not trying to thread jack here just wanted to post a little info about the F23 and let other people know how good it is.


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## bagtf3 (Jan 17, 2011)

this kit makes so much power. its silly. VW should recall all the 1.8s still out there and install this, because that's what they should have had from the factory. 

If you look at the torque vs popular "mid-range" bt setups, these cars look like they should be quicker. fatter torque in the middle and comparable power up top.


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## Gberg888GLI (Nov 1, 2006)

Any updates?

I start work soon and thus will have money to blow. I want the F23 on my car by H20i running well... 

Any updates with the manifold?


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

VTFuturaYellowGTi said:


> Just got my F23 the other day from doug looks awesome, not trying to thread jack, but I am going to be working with Mark at Malone tuning to see what I can get out of my AMU engine with 630cc injectors, FMIC, 3'' turbo back, inline fuel pump, tip, dv relocation, and r1 dv, and port and polished head should be interesting using malone tuning, everyone who has used them loves the tunes mark has developed and can customize for your car.


All of those mods and your only getting a FT ? What a waste of time :thumbdown:


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## Gberg888GLI (Nov 1, 2006)

not everyone wants huge numbers or a ton of money to dump into their cars...

Plus, even the cheapest pagparts kit is like 2200 without fueling, tune, rods, and a whatever the basic turbo is...

This kit is like 1300 bucks... i have enough fueling with my 440s and all i need is a tune and rods... 

u tell me where this kit isnt a good deal???

besides... much over 300 whp in a fwd car is silly...


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

Gberg888GLI said:


> not everyone wants huge numbers or a ton of money to dump into their cars...


I respect that, but the user I quoted obviously is under the impression that his mods are going to be sufficient with a FT lol.. which he's up for a big dissapointment when a guy with less engine work and a more thoughtout turbo setup will blow his doors off. 

Those supporting mods should be paired up with a 3071r etc. not a FT


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## smugfree3 (Feb 20, 2006)

bagtf3 said:


> If you look at the torque vs popular "mid-range" bt setups, these cars look like they should be quicker. fatter torque in the middle and comparable power up top.


false


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

smugfree3 said:


> false


x 1,000,000


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## MKIII_96 (Nov 25, 2006)

16plus4v said:


> x 1,000,000


x1,000,000,000


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

16plus4v said:


> I respect that, but the user I quoted obviously is under the impression that his mods are going to be sufficient with a FT lol.. which he's up for a big dissapointment when a guy with less engine work and a more thoughtout turbo setup will blow his doors off.
> 
> Those supporting mods should be paired up with a 3071r etc. not a FT


Not true. They'll complement any turbocharged application. Larger Frame turbos will have a more positive reaction than the smaller based Frankenturbo.


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

spartiati said:


> Not true. They'll complement any turbocharged application. Larger Frame turbos will have a more positive reaction than the smaller based Frankenturbo.


My point is tha of it being a complete wate of time. As the FT is supposed to be a budget replacement for k04 users. Not BT.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

16plus4v said:


> My point is tha of it being a complete wate of time. As the FT is supposed to be a budget replacement for k04 users. Not BT.


For most i would agree. My frankenturbo with all the bells and whistles is a nice autocross setup. Thats what i had planned for the car anyways. Top end power wasnt a huge necessity but more low end and midrange torque. The aeb head and intake cam with the larger intake manifold all complement each other and give me a nice fat powerband.

Now dont take that statement as me saying frankenturbo>than a true big turbo setup. They each have there place. Straight line, drag racing or road course go for a nice big turbo. Autocross, small roadcourses, and everyday driving a frankenturbo or gt28 series setup is just what the dr ordered. If you have allwheel drive then you can get alot more down to the ground so have fun with much larger turbo setups!


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

at 10psi i can autox the HELL out of my car and bein ver competitive. and still make more power and torque than an [email protected]+psi

so i don't believe in any of the hype for it, once i get watermeth,long over due, it will be insane the amount of power i can push full tilt and the driveability and economy i have in my setup. 30mpg's..on 15" wheels from a nearly or more than 500whp 1.8t 3071 on pump....

yet i can turn the boost down and have a very dialed and fun autox car, or mild boost for a fun trackday car, little more for fun timetrials, more boost for the street adrenaline ush, more boost and race gas to strip the material off my seats.

i don't see less than 22mpg when completely and totally flogging [email protected], 23/24 in traffic.

now tell me how that is not an all around setup. controllable, dialed, fast and room to push. all in the twist of a knob.


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## DowNnOuTDubin (Jun 21, 2006)

Still you will have more boost lag than this hybrid KO4. 300whp sounds nice for not giving up much lag at all. You'll easily spend a 1/3rd less on this setup.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Vegeta i completely respect your opinion. For some an f23 is a nice nitch. for others they want and have the means to go all out and push it to the limits. For my daily i think this is a nice compromise. 

My entire build cost me much less than others. My cousin use to part vws so sourcing an aeb and tt turbo setup was close to free. Family discounts are nice. So all i had to do was swap in an f23 and have alot more fun or spend a hell of alot more money for a proper bt setup. Will the bt setup put down more power, absolutely. But where i sit right now i am more than happy with the car and couldnt want more. 

My next project is an e36 m3 with a gt40. Car thatll do everything and then some. For now im content with what i have.


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

DowNnOuTDubin said:


> Still you will have more boost lag than this hybrid KO4. 300whp sounds nice for not giving up much lag at all. You'll easily spend a 1/3rd less on this setup.


Wrong.

You will easily spend almost as much or more trying to make 300whp with this turbo.


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## DowNnOuTDubin (Jun 21, 2006)

The dyno videos I've seen, they were running the stock 1.8T mani with no water meth making those numbers. I will add though they were pushing the RPM's up to and over 7k and 25psi (before it falls off) from the F23.

Reference


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

That was my video. It was a spike to 24 psi holding 22-23 and tapering to about 19-20.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

spartiati said:


> That was my video. It was a spike to 24 psi holding 22-23 and tapering to about 19-20.


do you still have the eurodyno 440cc tune with your F23, if so, hows the turbo running so far?
I want to get into the 280-300whp and so far that tune can easly take me there.

I just wonder if its too much stress or anything going bad since the tune is not made it for that turbo.

Thanks


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Upgraded to maestro and running 630's. overkill yes. 

Ran great on the 440 file. Injector timing was alittle high and was also anticipating the higher flowing exhaust mani as well as afew other toys so i upgraded injectors and tune.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

as tuners have said..with 280-300whp range..you need rods.


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## VTFuturaYellowGTi (Jan 1, 2007)

*Update!!*

So about a month ago finally got my Frankenturbo F23 installed. Was running the APR tune with it, but have now moved on to Malone's custom tune. Figured this post needed an update and a bump. Prior to the malone tune I was seeing 265 bhp on my Liquid TT gauge, and boost around 23 but would drop down low, sometimes down to 16-17psi. Also noticed with the new Frankenturbo my EGT went down by about 50 degrees. Now with the Malone tune, I asked Mark for a tune with insta boost. Well he gave it to me. BHP is now at 295bhp and 21 lbs of boost, but never drops below 20lbs. Boost hits hard right off the bat, 1 bar by 2300 and full boost by 3000. Never got the wheels loose on my TT till now. Tune is just amazing. Mark also sent me a tune for my 550cc injectors, need to get the inline fuel pump in before I throw those in. Will update with dyno numbers, on both the stock and 550cc injectors. 

Can anyone give me some advise on how to turn the numbers from a log into graphs....Im assuming put them on excel and make a graph? Also can I find out HP and torque with my vag-com?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

VTFuturaYellowGTi said:


> So about a month ago finally got my Frankenturbo F23 installed. Was running the APR tune with it, but have now moved on to Malone's custom tune. Figured this post needed an update and a bump. Prior to the malone tune I was seeing 265 bhp on my Liquid TT gauge, and boost around 23 but would drop down low, sometimes down to 16-17psi. Also noticed with the new Frankenturbo my EGT went down by about 50 degrees. Now with the Malone tune, I asked Mark for a tune with insta boost. Well he gave it to me. BHP is now at 295bhp and 21 lbs of boost, but never drops below 20lbs. Boost hits hard right off the bat, 1 bar by 2300 and full boost by 3000. Never got the wheels loose on my TT till now. Tune is just amazing. Mark also sent me a tune for my 550cc injectors, need to get the inline fuel pump in before I throw those in. Will update with dyno numbers, on both the stock and 550cc injectors.
> 
> Can anyone give me some advise on how to turn the numbers from a log into graphs....Im assuming put them on excel and make a graph? Also can I find out HP and torque with my vag-com?


 
What are your HP numbers based on? Have you dynoed your car?


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## VTFuturaYellowGTi (Jan 1, 2007)

*Dyno*

I have been basing it off my Liquid TT gauge, which gives BHP. It uses the OBDII port just like a vag-com does. Will get real numbers when I get it on a dyno with both stock and the 550cc injectors. But again it all comes off my liquid tt gauge. I know its probably not perfect, but does allow me to see the diffrence between the 2 turbos and the 2 diffrent tunes.


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## VTFuturaYellowGTi (Jan 1, 2007)

*Dyno*

Anyone know where there is a AWD Dyno near or around VT/


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

VTFuturaYellowGTi said:


> I have been basing it off my Liquid TT gauge, which gives BHP. It uses the OBDII port just like a vag-com does. Will get real numbers when I get it on a dyno with both stock and the 550cc injectors. But again it all comes off my liquid tt gauge. I know its probably not perfect, but does allow me to see the diffrence between the 2 turbos and the 2 diffrent tunes.


 I see, you need to hit up a real dyno. Maybe a stupid question because I know nothing about awd setups but can you pull the drive shafts from the rear and run on a regular dyno?


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## VTFuturaYellowGTi (Jan 1, 2007)

Its not a stupid, but interesting question. Don't know the answer to that?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

VTFuturaYellowGTi said:


> Tune is just amazing. Mark also sent me a tune for my 550cc injectors, need to get the inline fuel pump in before I throw those in.


 Whose your whatchyer!!?? Where are those logs? Seriously, do I gotta be the last to know about this?


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## VTFuturaYellowGTi (Jan 1, 2007)

Sorry Doug, have not had a lot of time, been working a lot, and finally got out to auto-x the car over the weekend. I will get those logs out tomorrow. It took me a week before I installed the tune, even though it was sitting in my inbox, just dont have that much time. Have to send the logs to Mark to so he can make adjustments.


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## VTFuturaYellowGTi (Jan 1, 2007)

16 plus4v not everyone wants big numbers, I was looking for a quick spooling, midrange turbo, could have gone with a gt28 but its 1600 just for the turbo, and the EGT's would be through the roof. For auto-x I wanted something that spooled quicker and would not lag, also wanted a larger waste gate. 

Doug is a great guy, who was a big help, very quick to respond, my first question was sent to him at 11:30 at night, he responded within minutes. Good service and quick responses also helps sell a product.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

VTFuturaYellowGTi said:


> my first question was sent to him at 11:30 at night, he responded within minutes.


 
11:30 at night? It was probably a Saturday too. This Doug guy sounds like a total lame-o.


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## carcraz (Jan 25, 2011)

doug must have an iPad with him every where he goes..lol


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## klodkrawler05 (May 1, 2009)

VTFuturaYellowGTi said:


> 16 plus4v not everyone wants big numbers, I was looking for a quick spooling, midrange turbo, could have gone with a gt28 but its 1600 just for the turbo, and the EGT's would be through the roof. For auto-x I wanted something that spooled quicker and would not lag, also wanted a larger waste gate.
> 
> Doug is a great guy, who was a big help, very quick to respond, my first question was sent to him at 11:30 at night, he responded within minutes. Good service and quick responses also helps sell a product.


 Spool is something thats hard to explain to people who dont actively auto-x or need instant boost. 

think of it this way: 

GT30 bt setup with boost turned down to 300whp 
FT setup with supporting mods to make 300whp. 

for autocross you spend 90% of your time between 2500-5000rpms (at least on the courses around me according to my data logs) 

Experiment time!!! 
now find your nearest stage2 stock turbo friend and try this 
both of you start in 2nd gear at 2500 rpms. do a pull to 5k rpms as soon as you get to 5k hit the brakes. 
who hit the brakes first? 

people think its just about the raw number but in racing its all about power delivery not final results. 

using these example plots of a FT setup vs a very nicely built precision 5857 turbo setup (faster spooling than a gt30 setup) you can see how much fatter the area under the curve is for the FT in the "usable auto-x range" 
granted the car has nearly double the power by 5k RPM's but on the auto-x course you'd be shutting it down at or before 5k almost every time and in 2nd that rapid amount of power gain would likely cause you to lose traction and/or unsettle the car to the point that you'd be braking earlier to give the car an extra instant to take a set before you dive into the next corner. 
Notice: 
3k RPMS frankenturbo: 100hp 170ft/lbs 
4k RPMS frankenturbo 226hp 297ft/lbs 
5k RPMS frankenturbo 260hp 260ft/lbs 

3k 5857 setup 90hp 120ft/lbs 
4k 5857 setup 160hp 250ft/lbs 
5k 5857 setup 400hp 460ft/lbs 


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I'm not against big turbos at all, in fact my car will likely get one when the stock k03s gives up the ghost. 
but when these guys are saying this turbo is the ultimate DD/auto-x turbo they aren't joking. unless you feel the need to rev the piss out of your car every time you hop in it to go to the grocery store these little snails are going to be making more power for the entire amount of DD rev range. than your big turbo setup........although with a BT you'd be getting to the store much faster


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah this turbo is Fing sweet for somebody that wants something to auto-x, or a nice fun daily, 

i got a mbc on my car and it hits 25 lbs and holds 22-23 up to redline, according to my boos guage that is pretty accurate, if i could just get a dam manifold that dont cause exhaust leaks every 10 min id probably be happy with it, 

i also need to sell this revo and get some maestro, it does not make and dam power, pulls all kinds of timing when it should not cause its a "stock rod tune" who the hell in their right mind does a stg3 setup and not put rods  

also the guys at revo are ****ing *******, im totally done with them they are no dam help, all they will tell u is if u do not run a turbo setup that their software is tuned for they cant help u if it does not run right, 

i think that is bull ****, this turbo is dam near the same thing as a gt28 so how the hell can the tune be that far off lol, but what ever, if i can ever afford some maestro soon ill be getting it dyno tuned and hopefully putting up some good #'s and big appologies to doug for my car being a pos and not being able to get him some dyno #'s


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I 100% agree with you about Revo being a frustration. But... I also wonder if part of your problems are owing to that prototype manifold I sent you. The fabricators misunderstood our ambitions for them and thought we'd be "dry fitting" them only. So they didn't do a final machining to ensure surfaces were decked to hold pressure. You want a replacement? I just got fully finished ones in yesterday. Nice n' flat.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah it might help lol, these dam exhaust leaks are driving me F****** nuts lol


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Well...new and improved. (The collector outlet is now 42mm, allowing a better seal for the gasket)


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## liloldbie (Jun 23, 2007)

Love this turbo and this thread.

What's the price on something like this for 225 guys. Turbo + High Flow Mani?


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## hollywood084 (Feb 9, 2010)

frankenturbo.com


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## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

makes me want to forget the f4t and go straight to f23. that mani is sweet


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

have u tried to fit it on a head yet, can u get all the bolts on it and still put a socket on them or at least fit a boxed wrench on them, thats the major problem i had on the other one ??


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

spartiati can get his version on (or) off in ~30mins. But he's had a good bit of experience with his: BOTH flanges on his prototype needed decking. Hopefully he'll chip in with more specifics about the installation. Also, I will be supplying proper-length bolts for the turbo connection. They need to be M10 x 1.50 x 65mm. An odd length.


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## liloldbie (Jun 23, 2007)

hollywood084 said:


> frankenturbo.com


Just saw that the site is updated with the mani now. Wondering what's the special intro price...


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I have gotten to be a pro at swapping manis. I can go stocker to tubular in less than an hour start to finish taking my time. 

With tthat said there are only 2 studs that are a pain to get to. One of them I just don't bother with. One is the top one next to cylinder 1 closest to the passenger side and the other being the top one between cyl 3 and 4 closer to 3. Otherwise everything gets on there pretty easy.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah those the ones that gave me a problem except on cyl #1 on the left side of the tube, and the left side of cyl 3 also, what a pita !!! im just worried about them leaking, im so dam sick of exhaust leaks


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

dude the manis we got were suppose to be testers just to see if they fit. They were never properly finished and decked. Us as well as Doug were not made aware of the situation which is why you have leaks all over. I too had leaks all over ... had it "decked" on a belt sander (ghetto way) and it helped significantly. Now we had it properly decked and checked so we are just waiting on it to come back for reinstall. 

Not saying I recommend it, but one missing bolts is not going to make a huge difference and cause it to leak from there. It will leak if the flange is not 100% straight


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

spartiati said:


> ... 2 studs that are a pain to get to. One of them I just don't bother with.


eww.. Steve, dude....


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah id love to get this thing off of here and maybe it would run better and i can get it to a dyno


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

badger5 said:


> eww.. Steve, dude....


??

If you were leaking on the dyno then power is def down from where it would be.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah i thought it was not but it probably was it only did 260, which is less than before with a stock ko4-23, and some 380's, and with 2 bent rods lol, i dont see why it wont make 300 even with this ****ty tune

maybe i can get a new manifold from doug and see what it does


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

im consistently 295-305 on the stock manifold. So with the tubular you should be atleast where im at.


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## hollywood084 (Feb 9, 2010)

spartiati said:


> im consistently 295-305 on the stock manifold. So with the tubular you should be atleast where im at.


That's great to hear! What mods do you have?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

hollywood084 said:


> That's great to hear! What mods do you have?


F23 frankenturbo setup.
eurojet fmic
eurodyne maestro
3" full turboback
snow performance stage 2
rods
and since the head was off I put an aeb head on there with largeport intake manifold. I'm sure the head doesn't do a whole much on this setup but it doesn't hurt ill tell you that much.

Buddy of mine 04vdubgli I remembered dynod 264hp on a bone stock ko4-02x with abd intake mani, meth and other boltons. With 3" turboback and meth(not required but seriously recommended for running more than 20psi) this should be a 280-300 hp turbo. With the new manifold I see 300 being the average. We'll have a solid dyno in a weeks time (give or take).


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

spartiati said:


> ??
> 
> If you were leaking on the dyno then power is def down from where it would be.


not doing up a stud was my Ewww..


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

badger5 said:


> not doing up a stud was my Ewww..


Haha. Oh ok... well its just one stud. The other is just a pain in the a$$. The one stud between cyl 3 and 4 is so tight I can't even get my massive hand between the turbo and block to fit the nut on there. If I could I wouldn't be able to catch it with any tools with the turbo in the car. I am not going to remove turbo or head to fit one nut. There's 12 others holding it on.

I also said I don't recommend it to others. With that said, I haven't had an issue thus far.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

liloldbie said:


> Just saw that the site is updated with the mani now. Wondering what's the special intro price...


OK, I'm going to swap into my "advertiser" guise for an answer. The special intro price is a rebate of the full purchase price of the manifold in exchange for logs and a dyno sheet. To qualify you have to buy a turbo with it and get feedback to me within 60 days of delivery. The manifolds will be ceramic-coated schedule 10 mild steel, with a $349 price tag. 

Pic:

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And for those of you wondering what I look like in my "advertiser guise", I've dumped the coveralls for an over-the-shoulder number that really hugs my curves. Mee-yow!


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## six sigma (Jun 22, 2007)

Subscribed, been enjoying this thread while I look forward to my first turbo upgrade--mostly waiting to figure out the most stable software option for my DD.

A couple of questions for the OP:

In that first .jpg of the thread, is that a special TIP laying there with the other parts or the usual Forge/EJ/APR tip? I wanna know because I could just get one now and still use it with the upgraded turbo when I buy one.

Also leaning towards the Eurosport front mount if you guys think it's big enough to use with this setup.


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

six sigma said:


> Subscribed, been enjoying this thread while I look forward to my first turbo upgrade--mostly waiting to figure out the most stable software option for my DD.
> 
> A couple of questions for the OP:
> 
> ...


The TIP is not a for a stock KO3. so you need the one specified. And I have the eurosport FMIC, and it does ok, but my IAT's are pretty warm... I am using the F4T, not the F23, so I'm sure IAT's would be higher than mine. But WMI may be in my near future....


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

spend the money and get a eurojet race, my iat in boost are never over 40 degrees celcius and its 100+ degreees here in fl


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## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

I was messing around a little in Photoshop today and I lined up some dyno plots. It seems to be common knowledge that the F4-T spooled sooner than the F23 but this doesn't seem to be the case at all:










And just for fun here's the F23 vs the GT3071R:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

SMG8vT said:


> I was messing around a little in Photoshop today and I lined up some dyno plots. It seems to be common knowledge that the F4-T spooled sooner than the F23 but this doesn't seem to be the case at all:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess I didn't get the memo because I was always under the impression that the F23 spooled quicker and made more power. It seems a little off that the car wasn't really making anymore power with the WMI? You doing any timing advance?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

SMG8vT said:


> I was messing around a little in Photoshop today and I lined up some dyno plots. It seems to be common knowledge that the F4-T spooled sooner than the F23 but this doesn't seem to be the case at all:


Holy cow. And I've had these dyno plots for months...?


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## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

I just took them from Doug's site. Maybe that isn't what everyone thought but I read through the F4T and F23 threads recently start to finish and I saw that mentioned a few times.


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## cody1413 (Apr 29, 2011)

DaBeeterEater said:


> 3 bar fpr
> front mount
> IE rods
> ARP head bolts
> ...



plan to do the same, would you happen to have a rough estimate of what this cost you/best place to order?


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