# K-Jet turbo setup



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*13 sec K-Jet turbo & now a bigger turbo build! Vids on page 5!!!*

I'm in the process of building a k-jet turbo mk1 & have been gathering part's over a period of time. The car already has a Volvo 240 fuel dizzy & airflap assembly. I've also added in a permanent fuel pressure tester incl. a tap to test both the control & system pressures.
So far, I've got a saab T3 turbo, Mitubishi Galant turbo intercooler, audi turbo warm up reg, dual port dizzy assembly & a few other bit's incl. a callaway boost gauge & other bit's & pieces & also waiting on the rest of the conversion part's to arrive incl. manifold & A/F meter etc.
While waiting for these part's I decided to play around with some item's & tested the dizzy advance/retard pot.
I modified the pot & drilled out the retard stop & tested it. Under 10-15psi it didn't retard the ignition at all. At 20psi it retarded the ignition only a few degrees. Vacuum advance operated as normal.
I also fitted the audi warm up reg & tested it too. At hot idle without the vacuum hose fitted it would read 45psi (normal). As soon as I put the hose from the warm up reg barbed fitting to the throttle body full vacuum port it would run like a bag of crap & pull it down to 20-25psi! Even on the throttle body ported vacuum it would idle fine at 45psi, but as soon as you crack the throttle open alittle bit to pull vacuum it would again run bad & pull it down to 20-25psi!
If someone could please help, where about's do you plug the warm up reg. vacuum/boost reference into. Eg. throttle body ports, intake manifold to get the boost enrichment?
Also has anyone actually tested there ignition boost retard, as I'm interested in your result's to see if they actually do work.
What would be the approx power output of a k-jet turbo setup like this running 10psi?
Cheers
Tim.


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

Can't help too much in this department, as I am doing a similar setup and will also need advice.. But I know that my 240T WUR needs a check valve inline to the TB port for boost enrichment, so maybe yours does as well. As far as boost retard, I have an MSD box for that. If theres anyone to ask about this stuff, its Peter Tong, he is the man with boosted cis.
Steve-


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (BSD)*

Thank's Steve.
I'm already looking into it.
The only other thing is with a one way check valve is, will it trap the boost signal in the warmup reg too?


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mk1-20V* »_As soon as I put the hose from the warm up reg barbed fitting to the throttle body full vacuum port it would run like a bag of crap & pull it down to 20-25psi! Even on the throttle body ported vacuum it would idle fine at 45psi, but as soon as you crack the throttle open alittle bit to pull vacuum it would again run bad & pull it down to 20-25psi!

What port on the WUR are you hooking vacuum to? on the Audi 5000 turbo WUR's the one you wana use is on the side. If you apply vacuum to the port on the top it will reduce the control pressure and make the engine run rich.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_
What port on the WUR are you hooking vacuum to? on the Audi 5000 turbo WUR's the one you wana use is on the side. If you apply vacuum to the port on the top it will reduce the control pressure and make the engine run rich. 

The hose is connected to the barbed fitting on the side of the warm up reg.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)*

Here is my build thread from another forum
Over the last few month's I've been increasingly getting bored & needed something to do, other than help my friend's with there project's. 
Which has led me to get motivated to continue carry on with phase #2 on the 76er, my daily since building it in May 08.








I've been gathering part's for the build over the last few month's for the turbo build up.
I thought I'd have a go at doing it "ol skool" style being a K-Jet turbo. 
The spec is very basic & very, very mild. (only running 10psi, but maybe more if I can get the fueling right!) Nothing outrageous - Power expectation is unknown at this point. But hopefully it should be fun for awhile once sorted out.
Bone stock low compression "GX" "SLUG"
Autotech 270 Cam & Valve springs
Modified G60 intake
Ol Skool "BIG" Weber/Redline Throttle body I found. (This was a common mod to replace the stock twin throttle body in the 80's & can be a pain in the arse to find one) 
Same stock Volvo K-Jet I've already fitted, except deleted Aux. air valve & Cold start valve
Audi 5000T boost referenced Warm up Regulator
Stock modified Distributor
ATP Cast 8V exhaust manifold
Saab T3 oil/watercooled turbo. V-Band 3" wastegate/dump pipe
Mitsubishi Galant VR4 Intercooler
Custom 2.5" exhaust & 2" intercooler piping
Tial 50mm BOV. (I'll be using this for my next project in the future.)
I'll also be fitting a Innovate Motorsport's wideband Air/Fuel meter/data logger to help me with the tuning side of thing's along with a modified Autometer fuel pressure gauge setup & also my favorite part. A genuine Callaway boost gauge, as fitted as part there Mk1 turbo kit's in the 80's!
I'll be tuning this myself, as there isn't a hell of alot of people out there who can successfully tune this sort of injection system, especially turbocharged too!
Once I'm happy with the tune, I'll put it on a dyno to get a idea of the power output.
I'm still waiting on some part's to arrive soon, but I'll post up what I've got & work done so far.
Saab Turbo & boost regulator (Just have to remove a broken bolt from the exhaust housing! DOH!) It's not a big turbo by all mean's (it's tiny to the other one I have here!), but it should be enough for now, until I get really power hungry. Only a matter of time! haha








New Engine Breather/catch can setup. I know. No more Powerade bottle! haha








Audi 5000T boost referenced Warm Up Regulator fitted








Autometer Fuel pressure tester I modified for testing purposes of the K-Jet, as this is how you basically tune a K-Jet system Note: the fuel tap to switch between "System" pressure & "Control" pressure








Weber "BIG" Throttle body (pics stolen off here. just waiting on this to arrive)
















Test mounted up the intercooler to work out the bracket's & mounting after it was pressure tested. All good.








I placed it so it has full frontage coverage of the intercooler core & still has room to have the piping fitted. Once painted black, you won't even know it's there!








Had to relocate the Radiator back 1" & across to the driver's side 2" & then bend up a cover plate for the radiator core. Note: Underneath is is lined with some stick on foam to protect the rad. fins & keep it from moving.
















Intercooler with the mounting bracket's welded on 








It's not a very big intercooler, but it will do the job easy as. A friend fitted one of these to to his TRX CA18T & on 20psi it made 199rwkw's & didn't have any trouble keeping the intake charge cool as! 








Assorted boost piping & oil supply & return braided hoses & fitting's.








Volvo "Cobra head" K-Jet airflap intake boot








Innovate Motorsport's wideband A/F meter & data logger equipment
















Callway Boost Gauge. (I've had this for year's waiting for the perfect project!)








Stay tuned for more. Just waiting on part's now!


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## NA 8v for life (Apr 11, 2007)

More pics of your fuel pressure gauge setup pls! I've been wanting to do that exact thing to my car since I switched to CIS basic and pretty much have to check the pressures to tune it.
Seeing all this is making me want to go back to my 8v, that damn 16v is addicting though.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (NA 8v for life)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NA 8v for life* »_More pics of your fuel pressure gauge setup pls! I've been wanting to do that exact thing to my car since I switched to CIS basic and pretty much have to check the pressures to tune it.
Seeing all this is making me want to go back to my 8v, that damn 16v is addicting though.

G'day matey.
Basically, it's just an old Autometer fuel pressure gauge I had lying around from another project added with a T-piece & high pressure tap installed, along with couple of speedflow fitting's & a couple more speedflow fitting's brazed onto the old warm-up regulator hose ends


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)*

Lookin good man, I'm gona follow this build. I'm starting a K-Jet turbo setup as well. Are you going to re-circulate your BOV? That intercooler is plenty big enough, the one I'm using is a little smaller than that but it fits very well.


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 10:07 PM 8-28-2009_


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_Lookin good man, I'm gona follow this build. I'm starting a K-Jet turbo setup as well. Are you going to re-circulate your BOV? That intercooler is plenty big enough, the one I'm using is a little smaller than that but it fits very well.

_Modified by EuroKid83 at 10:07 PM 8-28-2009_

G'day EuroKid,
I don't plan on using a recirc BOV. I've ordered a Tial 50mm one, which I'll end up using on another project engine once I've had enough off this 8vT.
Alittle bit has been happening in the way of a good friend (tool maker) helping me out with a custom adjustable one way valve for the warm up reg boost reference.
















































Now still waiting on part's to arrive.


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)*

Interesting. What is the purpose of the one-way valve?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_Interesting. What is the purpose of the one-way valve?

My first post explains what happen's in regard to the boost/vacuum sensitive warm up reg.
The warm up reg. richen's the mixture with either boost or vacuum. 
So at idle & part load (ie cruise), I have a rich mixture. If I eliminate the vacuum side of it with this one way valve, then I can have proper idle mixtures at approx 2.0% 14.5A/F & then with boost pressure, it richen's the mixture to suit.
I understand that the idle CO A/F will be alittle richer than this once it's tuned, but hopefully I can get it close to this & also richen the mixture to approx 12.5 A/F under full boost which will also give it reasonable fuel economy too. 
I'll also put a tiny bleed hole after the valve so that boost pressure doesn't get trapped in the warm up reg & cause it to stay rich & come back to atmosphere pressure as it would normally see..
That's my theory. Hopefully it work's.
I just have to work out how to retard the timing properly, cause I've played around with the twin port dizzy incl. modifying the retard boss & it doesn't start to retard the timing till approx 20psi! So 10psi it is uselss & operates as normal. No good under boost!
I don't want to go to the trouble of fitting a $700+AUD MSD boost retard, as for another $500AUD I can go to a fully programmable stand alone ECU & get rid of the K-Jet all together, which I don't want to do.
That's too easy to do & I want to have a go at getting this old school system working properly 




_Modified by Mk1-20V at 2:16 PM 8-31-2009_


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)*

Interesting. I have a volvo 240 turbo WUR that I'm gona use. One thing I have noticed is that when you have vacuum it keeps the control pressure at 50 psi but as soon as the vacuum drops or goes away completely the control pressure drops to 20 psi. I'm not sure if the control pressure drops lower than 20 psi under boost but I'm going to do some more testing and see what happens.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_Interesting. I have a volvo 240 turbo WUR that I'm gona use. One thing I have noticed is that when you have vacuum it keeps the control pressure at 50 psi but as soon as the vacuum drops or goes away completely the control pressure drops to 20 psi. I'm not sure if the control pressure drops lower than 20 psi under boost but I'm going to do some more testing and see what happens.

Mine is the complete opposite & I've double checked the bosch part #'s too!
When mine is at idle it's rich as (approx 20psi) full throttle/no vacuum it's back to normal (approx 50psi) & when you apply positive pressure, it's back to rich (approx 20psi). 
With the reg not connected to anything & open to the atmosphere, it runs as normal & have noticed a increase in fuel ecomony too.
Hopefully this valve should sort it out. Ill get there in the end. I'm not chasing stupid power, just something different & hopefully fun for a while


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)*

So how are things going with your build? I wana see some new pictures!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_So how are things going with your build? I wana see some new pictures!

Not much as been happening as of late, as I've been trying to get other job's done first. See below.
All my part's should arrive this week, but I'm booked out till the end of the month, with job's & weekends away to car event's.
























Enough of that! Onto the intake. 
I did get a chance to remove all the useless mounting boss' off the G60 intake I've got here & went & sandblasted it today at a friend's workshop. I also drilled & tapped one of the manifold fitting's with a plug, as I only need one port for the brake booster. It also came standard with a boost/vacuum fitting on the end, which will come in handy for the other component's
These intakes do look alot bigger, but these intakes aren't really suited to NA purposes. These are mainly for forced induction only, due to slow air speeds through the runner's on NA application's. You'd be better off with stock 8V K-Jet intake properly match ported & bottom 1/2 half of the runner ported/blended for a NA application.
















Here you can clearly see how much larger the intake runners are compared to the standard 8V K-Jet intake of a GTI.
I'm also not running any cold start injector or a aux. bypass valve to simplify the setup & also less chances of boost leak's too!
























Depending on my exhaust fab. mate, I'm planning on doing the conversion on the first weekend of Oct. 
The plan is to take a Fri. off work & bang out the conversion on a Thurs. night, Fri. which should give me enough time to fit all the turbo gear up & then drop it off to my mate on the Sat & leave it with him to make the exhaust & intercooler piping & hopefully pick up the car on Mon. arvo, with everything done.
This way I'm not without a car for too long. Then I can spend the rest of my time playing around with the tuning side of things.



_Modified by Mk1-20V at 9:02 PM 9-7-2009_


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## ShaggysGTI (May 15, 2009)

Shouldn't the difference in size of runner change the intake velocity?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (ShaggysGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ShaggysGTI* »_Shouldn't the difference in size of runner change the intake velocity?

Your right in a way, but a larger intake runner/port for a given amount of air (how much the engine can actually take it), the slower the air speed becomes.
That's why I said it wouldn't be well suited to a NA application, but more suited to forced induction., as your actually forcing air into the intake/port, which can mean the bigger the better up to a certain amount. But the car will be lazier off boost though with this intake. 
When it's used as NA, your engine is trying to suck air in (difference in pressure from the atmosphere & combustion chamber.
A Vortex member did a heap of testing on flow rates of different 8V intake's I think his name is Ny Fam?
Try & think of it like this. 
Grab a foot garden hose & blow through it in one long breath & see how fast it comes out the other end.
Then try the same long breath into a Radiator hose & see how fast it comes out.
Same breath, same length hose, different size hoses & different pressures.
Same principles apply to the intake manifold/runner/ports.
Hope this makes some sort of sense


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

Another piece of the puzzle "finally" turned up today too!
Weber Throttle body & Redline adapter!
Needs only alittle clean up. Very happy with it.


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## MaxVW (Nov 4, 2004)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)*

why not just hook the vaccume reference line pre TB so it doesn't ever get vaccume?

_Quote, originally posted by *Mk1-20V* »_
My first post explains what happen's in regard to the boost/vacuum sensitive warm up reg.
The warm up reg. richen's the mixture with either boost or vacuum. 
So at idle & part load (ie cruise), I have a rich mixture. If I eliminate the vacuum side of it with this one way valve, then I can have proper idle mixtures at approx 2.0% 14.5A/F & then with boost pressure, it richen's the mixture to suit.
I understand that the idle CO A/F will be alittle richer than this once it's tuned, but hopefully I can get it close to this & also richen the mixture to approx 12.5 A/F under full boost which will also give it reasonable fuel economy too. 
I'll also put a tiny bleed hole after the valve so that boost pressure doesn't get trapped in the warm up reg & cause it to stay rich & come back to atmosphere pressure as it would normally see..
That's my theory. Hopefully it work's.
I just have to work out how to retard the timing properly, cause I've played around with the twin port dizzy incl. modifying the retard boss & it doesn't start to retard the timing till approx 20psi! So 10psi it is uselss & operates as normal. No good under boost!
I don't want to go to the trouble of fitting a $700+AUD MSD boost retard, as for another $500AUD I can go to a fully programmable stand alone ECU & get rid of the K-Jet all together, which I don't want to do.
That's too easy to do & I want to have a go at getting this old school system working properly 
_Modified by Mk1-20V at 2:16 PM 8-31-2009_


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (MaxVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MaxVW* »_why not just hook the vaccume reference line pre TB so it doesn't ever get vaccume?

There is no pre-TB line. There's only two outlet's on the throttle body. One is full manifold vacuum & the other is ported vacuum for Vac. advance on your dizzy.
There is still vacuum pre throttle body right upto the air flow flap. Both in NA & FI form.
Although with a FI it becomes positive pressure after the turbo outlet, but there is still vacuum form the turbo inlet to the air flap.


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## MaxVW (Nov 4, 2004)

you could "T" into the WG reference nipple on the turbocharger. im pretty sure there is never vaccume there. but i guess your little one way valve ensures you never see vaccume


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)*

Have you considered using a MK2 8V intake manifold? They flow better than the MK1 manifolds.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (MaxVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MaxVW* »_you could "T" into the WG reference nipple on the turbocharger. im pretty sure there is never vaccume there. but i guess your little one way valve ensures you never see vaccume 

There will still be vacuum even at the turbo compressor housing when it's not on boost, as it's "still" part of the inlet track.

_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_Have you considered using a MK2 8V intake manifold? They flow better than the MK1 manifolds.

The intake I've just match ported & sandblasted is actually a Mk2 8V G60 intake, hence bigger runner's, no aux. air valve, cold start valve, as these were Digifant.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

I dismantled the Throttle body for a clean up & inspection & removed one of the ugly brass fitting's it came with standard so I could plug it up.








Where the brass fitting used to be. You can see in a previous pic, a big tube style fitting hanging out of the side of it with a screw head on the end.








Get the Tap & cutting compound. This stuff is by far the best stuff I have ever used for cutting threads & even drilling!








Run the Tap down gently








New thread all cleaned up








Bung fitted & sealed with pipe sealant









Then onto match porting the redline adapter with the intake manifold gasket.
I didn't follow the line to the letter, as the material would have become very narrow even for the gasket, especially under boost pressure too, so I left some meat where it open's up the the bigger end!
You can see how much material had to be removed!
























Finished product. I finished it off with the flapper wheels. They work awesome at smooth everything out!
Redline adapter








Intake Manifold








I blended in the opening into the first port runner as smooth as I could. I'm not a pro at this. Just enjoy doing it! haha








With the adapter mounted up. I tried to make the transition as smooth as possible without sharp edges or turn's & blended it into the manifold.
Came up ok I reckon
















With the throttle mounted up. I also tapped & inserted a bung into one of the fitting's I didn't need in the intake too. I only need one fitting for the brake booster.
















Open wide!!!!!

















I'm not too worried about port matching to head at the moment. If the engine blows a headgasket & I remove & dismantle the head, I'll do it then. But can't be stuff with the engine still in the car.
I'll also do the exhaust manifold too when it turn's up, but I'll only match it to the exhaust manifold gasket's.
Enjoy


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)*

Well I've been flatout here lately, with car shows/event's & other general service stuff, but a big shipment has finally come in & everything has been going full steam ahead.
Heres the latest shipment of part's. Mainly the main part's I've been waiting on to get things going








I decided to get a Tial BOV with V-Band, as it matchs a Tial Wastegate I've got here for another engine build later on








Internal Wastegate assembly which transfers into a 3" V-Band
























BIG difference to the standard Saab exhaust/wastegate assembly & the "whopping" great big 2" dump pipe! Very restrictive too!
















The all important 8V cast exhaust manifold








Various gasket's, adapters & oil fittings








Some new brakes, as the old ones are, well old & warped!
ATE POwer disc's front & rear. I got some 280mm for the big wheels & some standard 239mm Ive I ever decide to put smaller wheel's on to drag it


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)*

So with nearly all the major parts in hand, it was time to get thing's moving along as fast as possible
Before Engine bay shots
























Didn't take too long to strip it all down & start mocking everything up & then came across some trouble! All this kit is for a LHD car! DOH!
There will be a few mod's here & there to get everything to fit O.K.!
But after scrounging through some various nut's, bolt & studs & even having to make different bolt's with the help of Dom, I finally got there
Fitted up the ATP 3" wastegate V-Band adapter in the process
I painted all the cast exhaust manifold, turbo housing in VHT High temp Matt Black . Awesome stuff & the rest of the dump pipe will get the same treatment
























It's a bloody tight fit! It's less than 5mm off resting on the steering shaft boot! Ah well. The old extractor's rested on it anyway!








Assembly mocked up on the bench with a few more part's fitted








































Mocking up a new Wastegate actuator.
I can see why company's such as Callaway etc all ran external WG. There is bugger all room down there for them. But I've come this far not to turn around, so I'll stick at it & make it work
































Then the die grinder had to be broken out again due to clearance issues with the G60 intake!
This took quiet some time & alot of fitting & refitting to get it right


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)*

With some of the stuff off getting finished welded & a few other part's I'm waiting on, I decided to tackle some other part's incl. modifying the dizzy.
Early "twin port" vac canister
















Stock GTI vac advance canister








To enable more boost retard, I drilled out the vac pot stop
















All mounted up after drilling some new mounting holes
















I also fitted a set of MK4 GTI 20vt spark plugs too. This should finish off the ignition system with only a couple of minor timing adjustments during tuning
I also decided to have another play around with the Audi Warm Up reg after some long thinking sessions.
The more I played around with it, the more I learned about it & decided to apply the boost pressure to the other chamber of the warm up (not the barbed fitting side) & put it to the test. I wound down the compressore to 10psi & put it to the test. It worked spot on & I played around with different pressure setting's & compared them to some old porsche K-Jet turbo spec's & were right on the money.
I no longer need the one-way valve my friend made for me.








During my thinking stage, I also wanted to try & add more fuel enrichment for higher boost level's, but didn't want to go down the programmable extra injector(s), as this basically defeats the purpose of building a K-Jet turbo. If you've got one or two extra injectors that can be programmed the way you want to supply the fuel, you might as well go to a full standalone ECU like Microtech, Autronic etc.
So I've had a flat plate of alloy welded to the face of the intake plenum & have drilled & tapped holes for an extra 2 cold start valves run off an adjustable hobbs switch.
Because the G60 intake doesn't have a cold start valve, I can put them where I want. The stock GTI spot isn't efficient enough to mix up the right mixture under boost anyway, as you've got say 10psi blowing right at the face of the valve, which will just blow the fuel right up against the No1 plenum wall & force it all into cyl. 1, causing the other cyl's to run lean.
So I've placed one of them between cyl 1 & 2, & the other between cyl 3 & 4. Hopefully setup like this, it should mix it up nice & supply an even amount of fuel to all cyl's.
Even if this setup runs rich as buggery on boost. It's better than running lean! Running rich can also drown out the piston melting pinging! We'll see how it goes. If it does run on the rich side under boost, I'll screw some more boost into it & see what happens.
My friend is also good with setting up water/meth injection kits as well, so theres another option too.
I plan on starting off tuning on Wastegate spring pressure which is roughly 7psi & work my way up.
In the event of it melting a piston, I've got some 20vt spare piston's & rods, I'll throw in along with a G60 metal head gasket, which should be more than enough for the little 8v
I'll put up some pic's when I get the intake back which should be very soon.

_Modified by Mk1-20V at 10:36 PM 9-24-2009_

_Modified by Mk1-20V at 10:47 PM 9-24-2009_


_Modified by Mk1-20V at 10:52 PM 9-24-2009_


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote »_http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/golfworx/IMGP3094.jpg

I love my ATP Vband wastegate... curious... what is the red stuff? rtv?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Southcross)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Southcross* »_
I love my ATP Vband wastegate... curious... what is the red stuff? rtv?

Spot on.
It's Permatex Ultra Copper gasket goo.
The factory wastegate housing didn't have a gasket as it places the wastegate flap too foo away from the exhaust housing & can cause it to leak
More pics
Various silicone hoses of different sizes & shapes. (What ever doesn't get used will get put away for the next turbo build) I't shard to judge what you might need when building these sort's of things without having most of the stuff already fitted.








Various mild steel mandrel's & piping. 








A couple of my friend's came down & built the dump pipe while I was at work & also installed the oxy. sensor bung. They done an awesome job too smoothing off the welds & making it flow nice & smooth. They'll also be helping with the intercooler piping.
I'll drive it to my friend's exhaust place like this & he'll rig up the rest of the exhaust. It will just be a 2.5" with a resonator & turbo rear muffler. Don't want it too loud as I travel 200km a day in it. So no drone for me!
In case your all wondering, this is my everyday car & travel 700+km a week in it, not a weekend warrior.
























Hobb's switch & Mk4 GTI 20vt (AGU engine code) spark plugs








A good friend of mine also gave me this.
A factory 1977 Mk1 GLS Radio.









_Modified by Mk1-20V at 10:48 AM 9-25-2009_


_Modified by Mk1-20V at 10:49 AM 9-25-2009_


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mk1-20V* »_
Spot on.
It's Permatex Ultra Copper gasket goo.
The factory wastegate housing didn't have a gasket as it places the wastegate flap too foo away from the exhaust housing & can cause it to leak

uhm.... every 5-bolt turbo I have seen has been metal to metal, I don't run any kind of seal and I haven't ever had any kind of exhaust leak. I give the RTV one full heat cycle


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Southcross)*

who can weld cast iron to mild steel? i never have but ive done plenty of aluminum


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (bunnyhopin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Southcross* »_uhm.... every 5-bolt turbo I have seen has been metal to metal, I don't run any kind of seal and I haven't ever had any kind of exhaust leak. I give the RTV one full heat cycle


Ah well. I'll have to see how it goes. If it does melt it/spit it out, it's me that has to fix it. 

_Quote, originally posted by *bunnyhopin* »_who can weld cast iron to mild steel? i never have but ive done plenty of aluminum 

You can weld cast to mild steel, but you have to heat the cast up first. My friend has done it before.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)*

Well, I finally got my intake manifold & intercooler back!
These were the last piece's in the puzzle from stopping my progress.
Now on with some more work
My friends tackled the dump pipe, so it was my turn to do the rest of the pipe work. Good fun! 
Intake with it's modded twin aux. injector (cold start valves) plate 
























Hopefully it should work ok. If not, the weber throttle body has another mounting for a 3rd cold start valve.
















Intercooler with all it's mounting brackets on








Mounted up the intercooler & then installed the radiator to start mocking up all the piping








There is still alittle bit of room between the intercooler & radiator. They aren't hard up against each other.
I also mounted it using scrivet's (pop rivet nut's) Work awesome!
























Various silicone hose joiner slugs
















Had to get the turbo intake pipe stretched to fit snugly in the volvo intake boot. 








Turbo intake pipe all done & mocked up. I'll get some more pics of this when it's back out of the car along with all the pipes








Then started mocking up the intercooler to throttle body piping
























Finished pipe
















Then mocked up the Tial BOV mounting position & then the Hobb's switch as well








Then started in the turbo outlet piping. Sorry but I forgot to get a pic of this out of the car
















Working out intercooler piping position








I wanted both pipes to run parallel with each other & make it a clean fitment. 
















Everything appears to clear everything, but only a test drive & time will tell. Hopefully I'll be fine with engine movement
Progress will slow down this weekend, as I've got a 2 day training course over the weekend, but I'll try & get in some work during the night's & back on it on Mon.


----------



## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Dual (or tripple) cold start valves???????????? I'm super lost

_Quote, originally posted by *Mk1-20V* »_
Ah well. I'll have to see how it goes. If it does melt it/spit it out, it's me that has to fix it. 


well... I don't know exactly what it will do... if its copper based it might stand up to the temps *shrug*
Just be prepared that it might burn up and turn into a giant cloud of nasty smoke the first time the turbo gets hot. I don't know if you have a CAT or anything right down stream from it, but burning chunks may wind up going through your exhaust
its a very interesting build... and way overdone on the photos, way to go!


----------



## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

dam nice build man looks great


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Southcross)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Southcross* »_Dual (or tripple) cold start valves???????????? I'm super lost

well... I don't know exactly what it will do... if its copper based it might stand up to the temps *shrug*
Just be prepared that it might burn up and turn into a giant cloud of nasty smoke the first time the turbo gets hot. I don't know if you have a CAT or anything right down stream from it, but burning chunks may wind up going through your exhaust
its a very interesting build... and way overdone on the photos, way to go!
















I'm starting off with twin cold start valves but as I said, if its not enough, there is another mounting point for a 3rd cold start valve in the weber throttle body.
This is a MY76, so I don't have to run a CAT. or any kind of pollution gear here in OZ
Sorry about all the pics. I'm just trying to help people see what goes into a build project like this or any kind of build, instead of a before & after shot & alot of kept secrets.
If it's too many, I'll cut it right back & just give you a before & after shot & keep all the little helpful bit's of info to myself.


----------



## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mk1-20V* »_
I'm starting off with twin cold start valves but as I said, if its not enough, there is another mounting point for a 3rd cold start valve in the weber throttle body.


is that for fuel enrichment under boost??


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Southcross)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Southcross* »_
is that for fuel enrichment under boost??

Yeah. It will be set off by an adjustable Hobb's Switch.
I'll set it at 7psi initially & see how it all goes with the tune. I may have to bring it in sooner, or may leave it later. But I just need a starting point.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

Well this weekend was alittle disappointing & not really happy with the progress. Crappy weather put a stop to painting & a so called dash -4 fitting decided to strip an oil supply adapter! Mmmmmmm.
But I did get some stuff done.
I finished welding all the pipe work, smooth & blended everything which took quite some time. Especially around the BOV. But the extra effort was worth it
















All the piping ready for paint tomorrow








Dropped the sump & fitting the oil drain fitting









I also decided to fit a VW Motorsport Windage tray I've had here for a long time. What better time to use it than now.
























Made up the oil return line & oil supply line For interest sake the supply is dash -4 & return is dash -10
































I also got time to modify the wastegate mounting bracket, due to how the turbo housing's are clocked, the original bracket jammed the wastegate pot against the intake manifold. I also had to mod the swing/push rod end too.
So out came some scrap metal, the hacksaw, linisher & welder.
My welds are slowly getting better.
































I'll be ordering some more part's tomorrow which broke, painting the piping & hopefully start reassembly tomorrow night!


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (DaBeeterEater)*

Got another good day in of work today.
Decided to set up a makeshift booth in the shed as it was crap weather all day again & line it with old massive blanket's & got the patio heater going! Crap I know, but it all didn't turn out half bad.
Managed to etch & spray all component's & then fit everything up. 
Just waiting on an oil supply fitting & then onto the wiring which shouldn't take all that long & then brake booster pipe, exhaust & aux. injector fuel line
On with the pics. Very pleased with the final product. Almost look's factory apart from the Tial BOV.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (DaBeeterEater)*

Before & after shot's. 








Engine look's alittle cleaner now with all the aux. air valve supply hoses deleted & the Warm up reg hoses/pressure gauge tucked away too.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

Got a chance when I got home to wire up the A/F meter, calibrate it & fit the boost gauge. These will only be fitted temporarily for tuning. Once I'm happy with it all, it will all get removed & back to stock interior.
Anyway I can safely say it runs!
Cranked over on the 2nd revolution & fired into life. Although alittle noisey & once all the gasket goo & exhaust paint had settled, it idled perfectly as before at 1000rpm.
I'll get a chance tomorrow arvo to drive it & see how it all goes.


----------



## Holden McNeil (Jul 26, 2004)

Fantastic job!!! I love all the hands-on fab work you did!
Something about this photo makes me want to turbocharge a lawnmower


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (DaBeeterEater)*

Well with the car still without an exhaust, test driving has been kept to a minimum.
I did get a chance to drive it though & initially boost was kept as 5psi. The turbo isn't even working! 
The A/F ratio is spot on at idle & cruise. approx 14.6-14.9:1, but under boost it richen's upto low 10's:1! That's without the Extra injectors even hooked up!
But after a few goes & alittle bit of playing around, I wound it up to 10-12psi & the surge starts to come in. Its still running rich as under boost, so there is sill some playing around to do yet with adjustment's etc.
I'll get more tuning in, once the exhaust is fitted which should be tomorrow.
But it's slowly getting there. 
No leak's, no fires & everything is smooth.


----------



## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

thats surprising, good to know that i wont really need do any manifold modifying when i get to turboing mine


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (nickzom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nickzom* »_thats surprising, good to know that i wont really need do any manifold modifying when i get to turboing mine 

You may still have to clearance the intake & exhaust manifolds to fit flush.


----------



## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (nickzom)*

a/f in the 10's, man crank that boost up lol your good to go lol, crank that baby up t0 20 lol


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (DaBeeterEater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DaBeeterEater* »_a/f in the 10's, man crank that boost up lol your good to go lol, crank that baby up t0 20 lol

Haha.
Yeah tried that already. spiked at over 15psi & popped & farted!
It's looks like it's going to be a juggling act of boost & timing.
I was surprised about the A/F. I thought it would lean out. That's why I installed the extra injectors. Haven't even hooked then up yet!


----------



## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

what plugs you have in there and what are they gapped at?? 
that could be why its popping, 
this is not much of a comparrison but my 600 hp car i run iridium plugs in it and we run it rich like 10.2's in boost to keep it safe and it does not brake up, i was very very supprised at the iridium plugs


----------



## booested4door (Jun 10, 2004)

*FV-QR*

it might be smart to make your valve cover vent go back to the air box. also you should try running a dv instead of a bov. both are releasing metered air, causing issues. she might run better!!!!!!!!


----------



## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *booested4door* »_it might be smart to make your valve cover vent

it will only vent metered air if connected to the manifold (like the NA engine)


----------



## booested4door (Jun 10, 2004)

*FV-QR*

ya.... i realized that after i sad it...duh!!!!


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (booested4door)*

Well fella's, the full exhaust is now on which is a 2.5" full mandrel system with a resonator & high flow rear muffler.
The car is now nice & quiet to drive, idles nice & after a few runs, I'm seeing better increases.
I've since increased the ignition timing & set boost at approx 10-12psi & now it's taking off!
This would eat my old 135hp NA setup for breakfast!
The plug's are mk4 GTI (AGU) plug's. You don't gap them, as they are 3 prong plugs.
I've alway's ran my valve cover breather into catch can's. It prevent's the buildup of crap in the intake system. I see this in new VW's all day everyday!
So far the BOV hasn't given me any trouble with unmetered air, or causing running rough. 
At the moment I'm getting closer & closer to the tune. It's just timing & boost. Fuel is spot on!


----------



## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

id try some nkg iridium plugs man they are the shiz lol, bkr8eix, 
id be very curious to see what this thing makes on the dyno lol, looks awsome man btw where you located at ?


----------



## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

i am surprised you got it running good with the stock fuel disto. thats what makes me happy.
i have a Audi manifold, turbo, wastegate, and downpipe, Audi Intercooler, and Audi oilcooler.
so all I need is a WUR then.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (DaBeeterEater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DaBeeterEater* »_id try some nkg iridium plugs man they are the shiz lol, bkr8eix, 
id be very curious to see what this thing makes on the dyno lol, looks awsome man btw where you located at ?

Might try those plugs later on. At the moment it's all working out pretty good. It's turning the tyres through the first 2 gears, so I'm slowly getting there. More tuning over the weekend.
Just a pain in the arse procedure!. Floor it, diagnose what it may be, stop, adjust boost, timing or fuel & try again. Only touch one thing at a time though, as it's easier to workout what does & doesn't improve.
Right now the timing & boost seem to be getting closer, now I need to richen it up some more. It's starting to lean off in the higher gears under full throttle at high rpm's, due to increased boost & timing.
I'm located over an hour out of Melbourne, Australia


_Quote, originally posted by *nickzom* »_i am surprised you got it running good with the stock fuel disto. thats what makes me happy.
i have a Audi manifold, turbo, wastegate, and downpipe, Audi Intercooler, and Audi oilcooler.
so all I need is a WUR then.

The fuel dizzy/airflap assy I've got is off an NA Volvo 2.2L from 1983 I think. The air flow sensor plate is larger & lifts up more than the stock VW one. This is how I ran it with the slightly modded NA 1.8L & it provides better throttle response & better fueling over the stock GTI setup. It also improves bottom end torque as well, but seem's to be upto the task of FI too.
The only mod I've done so far to the fueling system over a stock setup so far is fit an Audi 5000T warm up reg with the vacuum/boost supply to the large fitting above the barbed fitting. Not the barbed fitting! 
I'm yet to adjust the system pressure with the shim's.
_Modified by Mk1-20V at 12:39 AM 10-2-2009_


_Modified by Mk1-20V at 12:47 AM 10-2-2009_


----------



## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

is that compared to the MK1 Airflap? I have a MK2 so I think I will be good


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (nickzom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nickzom* »_is that compared to the MK1 Airflap? I have a MK2 so I think I will be good

Yeah it comparing to the mk1 airflap. But I think the mk1 & 2's are the same.
I'm using the complete Volvo 2.2L assy. Airflap & fuel dizzy.


----------



## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

MK1 is 60mm right? my car has a 80MM flap.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (nickzom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nickzom* »_MK1 is 60mm right? my car has a 80MM flap.

I'll be honest & say I'm not sure. I haven't' seen a stock GTI setup in years.

Some more pics for the sake of it
Innovate Motorsports Air/Fuel meter. Awesome bit of gear & should be on everyone's list for the home tuner! 
Happily idling away at 14.5-.14.9:2
















Fitted the LC-1 in the rain tray. The oxy. sensor lead isn't long enough to reach into the car








Callaway boost gauge








The matching pair of tuners tool's!








I'm still slowly honing in on the tune, but I'm now running out of fuel up top in the higher gear's/load, so the car is booked in next Fri. to have the aux. injector hosing made.
I took a friend for a spin on the light setting & he reckons it's alittle bit faster than a lightly modded WRX. Not sure on that though. It's scrabbling for traction in the first 2 gears, but it's still slow to me!


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

Got some more work done this arvo & also getting to the end of the part's list.
The faster I get this done, the sooner I can move onto other projects.
Fitted up my new ATE Powerdisc's & Pagid brake pads front & rear
I also decided to give the underneath a pressure wash, due to the weekend away bush bashing a few weeks ago.








Fronts are Corrado 280mm discs & stock Mk1 GTI style pads. 








Rears are just standard size Mk2 16V rear disc's & pads


----------



## zcxerxes (Nov 13, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

keep up the good work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (DaBeeterEater)*

Well I finally broke something today.
My old ABD short throw shifter. The top relay lever broke clean off the shaft! 
Stopped,opened the bonnet & manually selected 2nd gear on the gearbox & drove back to a mates house for some repairs too.
Other than that, its been smooth sailing. the car is performing without fault. Mixture's are good, fuel economy is the same as before if not better.
I've removed the tuning gear out of it, till I get my next upgrade which will be a MSD 6BTM. Boost retard ignition
The aux. injector fuel hose will be going on the Fri & I'll have some wiring to do as well.


----------



## ShaggysGTI (May 15, 2009)

What bolt pattern are those adapters to on your hub?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: (ShaggysGTI)*

Subscribed, nice workmanship!


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (ShaggysGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ShaggysGTI* »_What bolt pattern are those adapters to on your hub?

They are H&R adapter's 25mm thick 4x100 to 5x130 Porsche stud pattern.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

I'm not planning anytime soon on dragging it or dynoing it just yet. There is still some little bits & pieces I'd like to do to make it more consistant in power delivery.
At the moment, I'm driving it 200km a day round trip for work & more than happy to drive it, as it's nice & smooth & alittle quieter than before. Although with the 13b style idle & weber throttle body, it's a pain in traffic! 
I can now see why VW/Audi used a twin style progressive throttle, as a large single is just too sensitive on take off
I did manage to get in a drag race last night against my brothers mid 13sec 6L V8 family wagon just for interest sake.
On low boost (10psi) & rolling along in 1st we nailed it & it was pretty even steven till about 110km & he started to pull away. 
Then we tried the 80km roll on. In 3rd I pulled a car length & stayed in front till 140!
I had no expectation's of how fast it would be or how much power it would make & I was alittle suprised how fast it goes.
I honestly didn't think it would be this fast. 
Hopefully soon I can turn it up some & be consistent, once I get a few more upgraded component's incl. a MSD 6BTM


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

Well not much has been going on apart from driving the car everyday & no problem's have arose since getting it going.
I managed to get in some time to get the Aux. injector fuel hose made & then wire it all up today. I also tested the system to see if it would all work
System all up & running

















The cold start valve outlet








With the Hobbs switch bridged out








I'm yet to hook up the A/F meter & see what's going on. I'll do that once the MSD 6BTM has been fitted & then see how it all goes.


_Modified by Mk1-20V at 7:54 PM 10-11-2009_


----------



## ShaggysGTI (May 15, 2009)

That last pic is awesome!


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (ShaggysGTI)*

I also another xmas present today. I ordered it Mon. night AUST time & it arrived THURS. morning form the States! Hell yeah!
All my Ignition component's arrived today incl. MSD 6BTM & RPM limiter pills, Blaster 2 Coil & bracket, Ignition Leads & separator's.
















This weekend should be fun.
Once this is all fitted, I'll refit the boost & A/F meter & hopefully start to turn the wick up on this 300+K old stock GX engine! hahahah


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

well I finally managed to get some more work done, but it was a very very slow process. I started working on installing my new ignition when a friend decided to come down & help me. Well it was only a matter of time before the booze came out. That basically put an end to my progress.
I got the MSD & coil mounted & ran the wiring & started on the ignition lead's
Not much!
MSD box mounted up in the rain tray against the fire wall. I also fitted a 6600rpm limiter pill. I think I will change this back to a 6200 or 6400 pill.








MSD Blaster 2 coil mounted under the Expansion tank.








Onto today. Very slow & one very "very" bad hangover!!!!!
I finished off all the wiring, made the ignition lead's & got everything tidied up.
Bit of a mess under here, but aren't all Mk1's like this?








When I built this Mk1 I mounted alot of stuff out of view to clean up the engine bay. The only place to put it all is in the cabin under the dash! 
Here is the TCI switch mounted up









Mounted up the Boost retard controller.








With all the lead's made & fitted








With everything refitted, the MSD is hidden away not too bad.
























Anyway, I did get to drive it & have a quick play around with it tonight. I've now wound the boost upto 15psi & I can safely say the car is now fun to drive!
There is still some tuning/sorting out to do, as it now is just starting to lean out in the top end. I'll have more of a play around tomorrow. I think I'll start increasing the system pressure, to supply the aux. injectors with some more fuel & also retard the cam timing alittle bit. I can start to feel the engine nose off near the topend. I also had this problem when it was NA with the 270 Autotech fitted. I found 2-4 degrees retarded made a big difference to topend.
But just going off initial setting's, I can roll along at 60kph in 2nd & plant it & it will start to break traction. Whether it is turning the tyres or just trying to yank the steering wheel out of my hands & skipping the tyres, it's now very fun. It also try's & yanks the wheel in 3rd roll on from 80 too.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

Well I had alittle bit of a sleep in but managed to pry myself outside to have a play around with some System Pressures on the K-Jet.
Here is what the system pressure was before
72psi.








Here is where the system pressure regulator is located on the side of the fuel distributor. Above it are is the warm up regulator supply, then the fuel return & then the cold start valve fuel supply.








This is what I'm going to adjust to increase fuel flow onto all the injectors incl. the aux. injectors too.
Here is what the regulator looks like removed. This one is out of a spare fuel dizzy I've got here & what I raided the o-ring & pressure spring shim's out of








Here is the one out of my car :Note the two shims on the left of the o-ring. 








Shims removed








Then measure what size the shims are to increase or decrease if need be the fuel pressure.
My stock shims were a 0.30mm & 0.50mm giving a total of 0.80mm.
The fat shim was 1.3mm, so I installed this along with my other shims giving a total of 2.1mm








Everything refitted & onto testing the fuel pressures. 
Now 82psi








As far as how much improvement is made. 
It no longer lean's out in the top end & keeps a stable mixture right through the rev range, although on initial boost build up & can shoot as far as 9.5:1 A/F, but quickly lean's back off to normal.
Mind you today was 26+°C & I didn't have any problem's with pinging etc.
Very happy with all this has turned out.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

Only after 3 full days with the boost turned upto 15psi, the clutch is starting to let go.
Alittle pissed, as it's only a new clutch that I fitted when the engine let go & its only done approx 20K & that's all highway use too. Its also a Heavy Duty job with the 16V pressure plate.
So at the moment, I've had to wind back boost pressure to wastegate spring tension. approx 6psi!
I also haven't been riding the clutch either. All the work its done so far has been roll on full throttle stuff. It must be making some good power! haha
I think I'll have to source a button clutch in the mean time till I get the auto done.
I'll also refit the diesel 4spd & probably lock the diff too, so I can drag it.


----------



## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

call up southbend they make awsome clutches i highly recomend them very very drivable full face, no puck clutch crap that slips all the time, and very well priced for what ya get


----------



## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (DaBeeterEater)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Water Boy (Dec 14, 2007)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (Water Boy)*

Im loving this build... to bad my engine is a high compression build... and i havent touched the poor thing in 3 months


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (bunnyhopin)*

Thanks for the info & thumbs up fella's.
Sorry for no more updates, as there isn't anymore work being done on the car, rather just driving & enjoying it.

I'd like to get it to the drags by the end of the year.


----------



## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

nice progress http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i wanna do similar to my jh
with that blaster 2 coil i have heard they leak mounted sideways so id imagine they would upside down also. turn it over and you should be good. the high vibration one you can mount however though


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (bmxguy)*

Thought I'd do a quick update on how this has been going. 
I've been using the car everyday as my daily driver & it has done 5000K with the turbo setup & nothing out of the ordinary has happened (yet!). Getting better fuel economy than the NA setup too!
The engine is still breathing & filling up the catch can approx 3-4 weeks as it was doing when it was NA. 
Its also not using any more oil than before either, which is a good sign.
There is some bottom end noise now, when cold though! I think the 15psi beating on the stock bottom end is taking its toll! haha
Other than that it has been fun so far & has already added a few fast cars to its "win" street drag resume.
Hopefully get it to a street meet in a months time. I'll be fitting the semi slicks I've got here. I just hope the clutch holds out until then.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

Well I finally managed to get the car to the drags. 

Fitted up the soft semi track/road tyres. Drove to the track 1.5hr's one way!
Lowered the front tyre pressures to 20psi.
Got in a burnout, staged, took off with about 4000rpm dialled in, boosted up, shook the tyres hard (a few friends in the crowd said it had bad axle tramp!) grabbed 2nd & broke the shift relay linkage only to have to roll down the strip in neutral! Not happy!
Had to trailer it home!
Waist of a night, but ah well. Hopefully next time


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (bunnyhopin)*

Nice build, like the level of detail you've share with the group.
I would have chosen the mk1 intake as a core, looks like you chose a Fox type intake.
From the pictures you posted looks like the runners are longer, but in fact they are the same size. Just different casting. The mk1 plenum looks like it comes down further and the runners start lower but they don't. The mk1 runners have a larger opening into the plenum. Runners are same length, and plenum volumes are the same.
Velocities and flow will be different, but the interesting note is that by the time the runners get to the head the cross section area of the port is all the same.
Here is some flow data from a while ago comparing stock intakes.


----------



## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

what a great build...I am not into turbos, but your build quality is definitely something to praise.
Excellent work!!!!


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_Nice build, like the level of detail you've share with the group.
I would have chosen the mk1 intake as a core, looks like you chose a Fox type intake.
From the pictures you posted looks like the runners are longer, but in fact they are the same size. Just different casting. The mk1 plenum looks like it comes down further and the runners start lower but they don't. The mk1 runners have a larger opening into the plenum. Runners are same length, and plenum volumes are the same.
Velocities and flow will be different, but the interesting note is that by the time the runners get to the head the cross section area of the port is all the same.
Here is some flow data from a while ago comparing stock intakes.









Cheers for the info. I've actually brought a ported intake off you before for my NA set which ran 15.8 @ 85mph. Was a stock GX with a Autotech 270 cam, volvo 2.4L K-jet gear audi throttle body, 4-2-1 extractors & 2" exhaust.
The intake fitted to the turbo setup is a mk2 G60 if your wondering. Not a Fox sorry.
I chose this intake as I had one sitting around & also as these were more designed for forced induction, hence the larger runners.

I understand the principle of air speed/velocity with an NA setup, but for forced induction, generally if you can have larger runners than stock, the more fill regardless. Obviously this is very generalized, as if you go too large it can also have a negative effect.
My friends use the same theory on their street cars, I'm I'm not one to argue with some mates who have a 10.0 @ 141mph RX3 street car & a full street Evo3 with 320kwatws on 19psi in full street trim & 440kwatw on C16 & full race tune.

_Modified by Mk1-20V at 9:28 PM 11-11-2009_


_Modified by Mk1-20V at 9:29 PM 11-11-2009_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Those graphs show more than just flow. It shows that cylinder 1 flows less than the other three, which amounts to poor fuel delivery on the other three cylinders since that one rich runner is going to throw off the wideband, and any tuning attempts. The Rabbit intake is the least restrictive, yes, but it is also fairly even in it's air distribution. The MkII has better distribution, but less flow. The G60 is the most restrictive and also has the worst distribution. Use what you've got lying around, sure, I dig that...but keep an eye on your tuning.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Those graphs show more than just flow. It shows that cylinder 1 flows less than the other three, which amounts to poor fuel delivery on the other three cylinders since that one rich runner is going to throw off the wideband, and any tuning attempts. The Rabbit intake is the least restrictive, yes, but it is also fairly even in it's air distribution. The MkII has better distribution, but less flow. The G60 is the most restrictive and also has the worst distribution. Use what you've got lying around, sure, I dig that...but keep an eye on your tuning.

Yeah, I can see what your talking about. The only way to measure it properly would be to fit a A/F meter or pyrometer in every exhaust port, but as I'm not chasing all out power, a tenth of a second or chasing records, its just not viable & a waist of time in this application.
The G60 may be the most restrictive in NA form, but as far as forced induction goes, it flows the most, as it has larger runners
General Eg. you push 15psi of air through a garden hose & measure the volume per minute. 
Then push 15psi though a 2" pipe & measure the flow. 
Which is going to flow more? 
This is the same for turbos as well. You pump 15psi out of a K03 & then pump 15psi through a TA45. Which is going to flow more?
The same principle apply's to the intake. I'm not disputed the fact the G60 is the most restrictive under vaccum. But seeing as it has larger runners (as can be clearly seen in the pics) it must flow more under positive pressure.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

My comments were really at the build stage of your build, a few pages back. (during parts selection). I'm with you, I wouldn't change your setup. I didn't intend for my comments to nit pick your choice in your build. You have one of my intakes, you know its advantage. Your setup is very impressive. Its way to easy for anyone to site in their web chair and nit pick anyones dub. I know if I put my dub and progress on-line it would be a very busy thread with all the nit picking.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (ny_fam)*

Its all good chief. No harm done. 
Just thought I'd explain my reasoning behind it.
I also used the G60 not only for its forced induction advantages, but also as it already had a boost/vaccum port & it didn't have the aux. air valve port & cold start valve at the end of the plenum chamber so I didn't have to block them up at all.
Just for interest sake. The car has had a quick make over earlier this week & these pics were taken from the "Day of the VW" in Victoria yesterday
More pics here & there will be plenty more posted up over the next few days, so keep am eye out!
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.a...37449

I basically made the car as visually stock as I could, except for the sunvisor, roof aerial (even though it doesn't have a radio!) lowered, & large exhaust tip!
Very sedate & the best sleeper! haha
















Also fitted a bench seat too! Not many people noticed it, but when they did, they loved it!


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

whats best is that that original VW early mk1 is faster than 90% of the other cars in the lot there.
A true sleeper!
Nice interior too.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

Nice work Tim. It's been a while since I've been on the tex and it looks like you've been busy! Do you plan on spending any time on the dyno?


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_Nice work Tim. It's been a while since I've been on the tex and it looks like you've been busy! Do you plan on spending any time on the dyno?

I haven't been all that busy really. Just been driving it. It is my everydayer & covers the 200km round trip for work each day!
Its a fun car to drive & you should see the looks on peoples faces when they belt off from a set of lights & you stay with them & when it hits 50km/h & turns the tyres to 80, grab 3rd & it hits 110 within a few seconds! Priceless!
No dyno work just yet & no power output figures sorry.
I did take it too the drags, but it broke the shifter linkage, so it stuffed up the night & I didn't get a run.
If the engine holds up, I'll be back after xmas & the new year to race it. This time of doesn't leave much spare time!
I've nearly covered 10k since building the turbo setup & it hasn't giving me any drama's, except the stock old banger engine isn't really liking the 15psi!
It now sounds like a diesel at idle when cold. Sounds like its cracked a piston skirt & flogged out the bigend bearing. The oil light takes a while to go out in the morning! haha
But I'll keep driving it everyday till it lunch's itself! Not too bothered by it.
It does have a exhaust leak & a wastegate flap rattle which I'll look at very soon. As when it comes on to boost & hits the magic 15psi it vent's straight out like a screamer pipe! haha
All in all, I'm very happy with it, as it was done on a budget & the fuel economy has out performed my expectations. I even managed to get 430km out of 35L on a recent road trip!
Another shot of the interior & bench seat a friend took for me.








_Modified by Mk1-20V at 9:01 PM 11-29-2009_


_Modified by Mk1-20V at 9:05 PM 11-29-2009_


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

Can you give a little more detail on the rpm limiting setup?
I assume that your MSD box is not controlling the RPM limits. How and what do you use to bypass the fuel pump relay..(fuel pump relay limits the stock rpms right?)


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_Can you give a little more detail on the rpm limiting setup?
I assume that your MSD box is not controlling the RPM limits. How and what do you use to bypass the fuel pump relay..(fuel pump relay limits the stock rpms right?)


The MSD 6BTM is basically a 6AL with a built in rpm soft cut rpm limiter which is adjusted by changing rpm pills.
The only different between the 6AL & the 6BTM is the 6BTM has the extra feature of boost referenced timing retard control.
I've fitted a 6600rpm limiter pill.
The stock late model GTI rpm limiter's was in built into the ignition rotor button.(Thats how it is on my stock Euro 83 Campaign GTI) Old-school like alot of euro cars from that time incl. BMW! It was basically a spring mounted weight inbuilt in the rotor button & when it reached a preset rpm the weight would throw out & short to ground through centrifugal force. 
I rewired the fuel pump relay as a "ignition on", as it can't operate through the MSD ignition neg. coil trigger like a standard VW setup ie. You turn the ignition on & the fuel pump primes for a couple of seconds & then as you crank the car the fuel pump relay receives the trigger from the negative side of the coil & activates the fuel pump. 
If the car stalls, the fuel pump cuts out.
When you wire the fuel pump trigger upto the MSD neg. coil the msd starts & cuts out. They just don't work together.
So how I've had to rewire it is when you turn the car on, the fuel pump runs constantely & if the car stalls, the fuel pump still runs on.


_Modified by Mk1-20V at 11:17 PM 11-29-2009_


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

Nice interior. I like the bench seat up front. Looks good man, I like what you've done with the car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bubba_vw (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

what MSD wire set did u get to work with the stock distubutor cap?


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (bubba_vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bubba_vw* »_what MSD wire set did u get to work with the stock distubutor cap?

I just got this set from JEGS to cover all bases
http://www.jegs.com/i/MSD-Igni...51681
But I used the standard "socket" style dizzy ends.
This link is what I used & how I made them.
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.a...38054
Hope these threads help.
Oh. alittle update on this car too.
So far I've done 15+K on it & the stock tired old engine still is yet to give in! It's leaking alittle bit of oil, which is really nothing major, but the cold engine knock & rattle would make a normal person question whether or not it will self destructed today! But I still carry out the 200Km round trip for work each day without failure, so it's still hanging in there!
I'm amazed how much abuse it has now copped too!
Some of the cars to its attacked list is long now & just recently had a few more runs against some mid to low 13 sec cars with success! The drivers we're not impressed, as the car is so understated in its stock guise you'd never know what goes on underneath.
So its been a very entertaining car so far!



_Modified by Mk1-20V at 9:34 PM 1-26-2010_


----------



## bubba_vw (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

that's cool. im looking to get another set of wires. i want to do the turbo set up to my car also. thanks for the build


----------



## nairmac (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: (bubba_vw)*

Gonna bump this up as a fellow CIS turbo owner.....


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

Cheers guys
Well after months of trouble free motoring with the turbo setup, it finally played up & came crushing down. Big not in a big way!
It happened the day a good friend came down from interstate. 
Must be murphy's law I reckon.
When you actually want to show someone how it goes, it fail's!

It just wouldn't boost & felt like a massive slug. It would spool up, but only felt like wastegate spring pressure, which is approx 6psi!
So after messing around with it & deciding I needed to really fix the oil leak's, I'd investigate the boosting problem too.
So off with the sump, front timing cover & dump pipe.
Replaced the front timing cover seal & gasket. Resealed the sump & windage tray & gave it a service too.
Then onto checking the turbo blades & wastegate. All good.
I checked all the boost control piping & found the boost regulator base had come loose & also pinched the wastegate control hose!
The base had loosened which cause the unit to twist around & drop boost pressure & also causing the following pic's








Split hose in two places! One actually looks like its been pinched by some pliers. Mmmmm. Strange, as I'm the only one who has played around with it.
















The culprits of my car turning back into a slug!
























So after everything I'd fixed everything up, it was onto tuning again.
What a pain in the arse!
I re timed the ignition timing to how I'd set it ( which was wound up fairly high!), I had to reset the boost control, but it wouldn't play nice & I couldn't get it to consistently boost to 15psi no matter how I adjusted everything. 
I did get it to spike to 20psi & christ did it go (turned the tyres hard in 3rd!), but it was very unsafe on the poor old stock donk.
So I'm still at the point of trying to find the old setup tune, which may take alittle bit longer than expected.
I also have left the shed in an absolute mess trying to get this thing back on the road.
Hopefully I'll have it sorted by the weekend. I also have to replace the gearbox selector shaft seal too & then give it a complete pressure clean to clean off the mess.


----------



## bubba_vw (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

why don't u buy an electronic boost controller. get the one with 3 settings. my buddy has the new HKS controller in this 91 twin turbo 300zx


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (bubba_vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bubba_vw* »_why don't u buy an electronic boost controller. get the one with 3 settings. my buddy has the new HKS controller in this 91 twin turbo 300zx

Yeah i have seriously thought about adding an E Boost EBC from Turbosmart to make it boost more consistently.
But, this build is suppose to be more of a budget build. 
I don't want to really spend any more on this apart from regular maintenance & maybe a replacement short engine when the time comes
I'd rather spend the coin on both my other projects incl. a 99 Chevy shortbed








a fully built, big turbo'd 20vt with fully manualized auto. Hoping this will replace the engine in this white 76er at one stage.
& rebuilding my (what was once regarded as one of the best in OZ 83 Campaign GTI) crashed GTI.


----------



## NAVI51 (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

I must say that this post is







. Really good job 20V, keep it up!!!


----------



## Lysholm (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mk1-20V* »_
Yeah, I can see what your talking about. The only way to measure it properly would be to fit a A/F meter or pyrometer in every exhaust port, but as I'm not chasing all out power, a tenth of a second or chasing records, its just not viable & a waist of time in this application.
The G60 may be the most restrictive in NA form, but as far as forced induction goes, it flows the most, as it has larger runners
General Eg. you push 15psi of air through a garden hose & measure the volume per minute. 
Then push 15psi though a 2" pipe & measure the flow. 
Which is going to flow more? 
This is the same for turbos as well. You pump 15psi out of a K03 & then pump 15psi through a TA45. Which is going to flow more?
The same principle apply's to the intake. I'm not disputed the fact the G60 is the most restrictive under vaccum. But seeing as it has larger runners (as can be clearly seen in the pics) it must flow more under positive pressure.

love the car, and don't take my comments as disparaging, but your logic on the g60 intake flowing more is wrong, more importantly what B4S is trying to tell you is good advice, more equal flow across the runners is far more important than overall unequal flow...even if it were higher with the g60 intake...plus it will give you the chance to undo the single butterfly throttle for a progressive unit
lastly you should have added your additional injectors before throttle, you are most likely adding to your unbalanced a/f problem, and hobbs switch controlled cold start valves are counterproductive you really should ditch them in favor of a pulsed unit w/ a controller, or find the tuning with other cis forced induction tricks
peace










_Modified by Lysholm at 7:38 AM 2-7-2010_


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Lysholm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lysholm* »_
love the car, and don't take my comments as disparaging, but your logic on the g60 intake flowing more is wrong, more importantly what B4S is trying to tell you is good advice, more equal flow across the runners is far more important than overall unequal flow...even if it were higher with the g60 intake...plus it will give you the chance to undo the single butterfly throttle for a progressive unit
lastly you should have added your additional injectors before throttle, you are most likely adding to your unbalanced a/f problem, and hobbs switch controlled cold start valves are counterproductive you really should ditch them in favor of a pulsed unit w/ a controller, or find the tuning with other cis forced induction tricks
peace









_Modified by Lysholm at 7:38 AM 2-7-2010_

It’s all good. I take all advice & just about everything on board & think it all through.
Remember this isn't a race car or an all out power house which I think some of you may think it is.
One thing to remember is, this is an everydayer which is a home built, budget build up with what ever parts I had lying around.
I'm not trying to chase a 1/10th of a second or .09 of a kw. Just a fun, cheap car to drive
I can understand where you’re coming from with your suggestions though
But when you've got some good friends who build some crazy high powered street cars for eg. 700+hp 13b rotary, 750+hp 2.4L Evo 3 street car, 600+ small block ford falcons, streeter etc. one even has 1200hp alcho small block! 
You tend to take on board all facets of there thinking.
& I still believe under a positive pressure system, the G60 intake will outflow the stock mk1 version & the reasoning is in one of my previous posts. If it has a larger overall CSA (cross sectional area) it will out flow something with a smaller CSA under positive pressure. Go back to the example of the garden hose & test it.
The G60 only has one runner that is uneven too, where as the mk1 intake has 2 uneven runners. So I think I’m better off with the G60 version.
Thinking about the A/F ratio's. At wide open throttle, the ratios are perfect at approx a steady 12.5:1 from 4000rpm to 6600rpm. It also cruises on 14.7-14.9:1 & gets 400+km on 35L of fuel! So I'd say there isn't really too much wrong with the setup 
Yes it does have a fuel spike early on & runs rich, but only for a couple of hundred rpm's & then it cleans up.
So really without going to the expense or time of fitted individual A/F or pyrometers into the exhaust manifold, I honestly don't know how even/unbalanced they are. 
But is it really worth it for an approx $2K turbo build on a $50 engine with only maybe 200hp? Its not F1. Its VW!
So I reckon for where the extra injectors are it fine, It still make’s perfect sense to split extra fuel across the runners instead of fire it through the throttle butterfly, under boost & basically force it right down to the back of the plenum chamber into #1 runner.
The hobbs switch maybe a crude way of injecting extra fuel, but I didn't want to go down the route of PWS controller. 
As soon as you fit a computer control extra fueling system, you might as well just fit standalone I reckon. Much, much easier & take’s all the fun out of doing/learning about something different. Well in Oz anyway. I’ll save standalone for my next engine.
With this build I wanted it to be all mechanical full stop. Obviously the Hobb’s switch is electrical, but it’s very agricultural! It’s either on or off. No flow control.

I started this build after thinking long & hard about everything & to plan it as much as possible. I also studied & read as much info as I could find in forums, fuel injection book's, manufacturer documents & any other info I could get my hands & even chatting to old school blokes with backgrounds of Porsche training in the 70’s,80’s etc.
One thing that I kept hitting a brick wall with was very few people gave up the info on how to setup up & tune these systems or what little tricks you can do to fine tune.
I even PM'd several members on vortex about this, without reply's! Real helpful.
So I was basically left to my own devices & knowledge, with some logical help from what info I had & friends
That’s why I posted all this info & pic’s up. There is no hidden info or hidden tricks of the trade. It’s all here for everyone to see.
Anyone can follow this to the letter have a budget built K-Jet turbo'd 8V which can run with low 13 sec cars on the street!
I'm sure a lot of people could improve on the setup, but how much would the extra cost’s be & how much faster could it be?
It may be all crude simple, but it works.
Sorry for the rant. 
Just wanted to explain my reasoning’s.


----------



## NORDLAND (Jan 9, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I totally understand your reasoning....you are a true "hot rodder"...a dieing 
breed. In my younger days I used to run a 82 ZX, l28t with a "laggy turbo", 
"inneficient diesel truck intercooler" and of course pressure switches.
Was it optimal?...certainly not!
Did it run mid to low 12's and stay together?...yes...yes it sure did...man I 
remember when the LT1 vettes came out...those were the days!


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (NORDLAND)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NORDLAND* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I totally understand your reasoning....you are a true "hot rodder"...a dieing 
breed. In my younger days I used to run a 82 ZX, l28t with a "laggy turbo", 
"inneficient diesel truck intercooler" and of course pressure switches.
Was it optimal?...certainly not!
Did it run mid to low 12's and stay together?...yes...yes it sure did...man I 
remember when the LT1 vettes came out...those were the days!









Cheers dude. 
if you still have some pics of your setup, please post them up.
& your right. it may not be the most ideal setup or look the best, but it work's & works good!
A good friend of mine's dad used to run an RX3 coupe, 13b draw though weber'd homebuilt turbo setup with all kinds of fuel pump's, regulators & crazy home modded weber setups. Crude as hell but......
This held the fastest untubbed rotary record for over 10 years. In 1989 it set the record with a run of [email protected] on DOT tyres, through a mazda 4spd & was still a street car! 
It was also the only rotary in the elusive Aussie 9 sec street car club too of that era!
Got to love backyard technology & ingenuity sometimes! It can work


----------



## NORDLAND (Jan 9, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mk1-20V* »_
Cheers dude. 
if you still have some pics of your setup, please post them up.
& your right. it may not be the most ideal setup or look the best, but it work's & works good!
A good friend of mine's dad used to run an RX3 coupe, 13b draw though weber'd homebuilt turbo setup with all kinds of fuel pump's, regulators & crazy home modded weber setups. Crude as hell but......
This held the fastest untubbed rotary record for over 10 years. In 1989 it set the record with a run of [email protected] on DOT tyres, through a mazda 4spd & was still a street car! 
It was also the only rotary in the elusive Aussie 9 sec street car club too of that era!
Got to love backyard technology & ingenuity sometimes! It can work

I might still have some pics of the car, but taking pics back then was the 
last thing on our minds, much too busy hanging out in parking lots near 
the local "strips", impressing the ladies and trying to get some 
"gas money"...plus the money spent on a camera and film could be put 
aside and maybe you could get a "modified ecu" from Jim Cook Racing, 
or maybe some HKS stuff...I mean if it runs this good with stuff an old 
man, that thinks "big block Mopar, the rest is crap and then you got Japanese 
crap", told me what to do,imagine what it could do with "shiney parts".
Never did manage to get "racing parts"...got a whole bunch of catalogs 
though! Miss that old man...I learned a lot from him
R.I.P Arnie!....a true hot rodder.
"What guy?...the blue LX?...yeah you'll take him by 2...his car is crap 
just like yours"







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Lysholm (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

yeah that certainly was a rant...
i understand wanting to keep it simple and cheap, but let me point out that for the $ you spent on msd ignition goodies would have bought you a single injector controller...also keep in mind 15psi is high boost to be running without sorted fueling
and its great that your buddies have really fast cars, but since none of them seem to have properly fueled cis turbo dubs i'm not really sure why you chose to slap me in the face with that, especially since ive had three different Callaway cis turbo setups ranging from a water injected 1.6 running cis basic, an intercooled 1.8 with K-jet and pulsed injector controller, and currently an intercooled 1.8 w/ Digi 2 knock ignition, and programable stepping motor that modulates control pressure, all of which have had proper fueling curves, as long as your cool with it, i'm cool with it...carry on


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Lysholm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lysholm* »_yeah that certainly was a rant...
i understand wanting to keep it simple and cheap, but let me point out that for the $ you spent on msd ignition goodies would have bought you a single injector controller...also keep in mind 15psi is high boost to be running without sorted fueling
and its great that your buddies have really fast cars, but since none of them seem to have properly fueled cis turbo dubs i'm not really sure why you chose to slap me in the face with that, especially since ive had three different Callaway cis turbo setups ranging from a water injected 1.6 running cis basic, an intercooled 1.8 with K-jet and pulsed injector controller, and currently an intercooled 1.8 w/ Digi 2 knock ignition, and programable stepping motor that modulates control pressure, all of which have had proper fueling curves, as long as your cool with it, i'm cool with it...carry on
















Sorry about the rant, but was just trying to explain me reasoning about the setup & also with friends like that behind you, they do have a clue about all sorts of things. Just cause they don't have it on there cars, doesn't mean they don't know how it works or how to mod it.
I fitted the MSD as I wound the boost upto 20psi & needed a ignition retard system. The stock modded vac advance, just wouldn't aloow to retard the amount I required.
I don't doubt your experience with K-Jet turbo setups at all, but you keep talking about how my fueling curves aren't right etc.
On wide open throttle on 20psi, it has a slight rich stumble at approx. 3500rpm which is of little concern I reckon. Better to be alittle rich than lean.
Once through the quick stumble it cleans up & the A/F ratio is a steady 12.2-12.5:1 which is about as good & sorted as it gets with a turbo car running pump fuel. It doesn't lean out or run rich once through the stumble.

So yes, the fuel curve is wrong only for approx 200rpm, but not at WOT under 15+psi boost. Its just out on initial build up. So I wouldn't say the fuel curve is so far out of whack that I'll pop my engine. The only reason it will pop, is cause its a stock 1.8L GX with 15+psi wound into it.
Hopefully I can get the car to track soon enough & then we'll see just how crap it really is.
Please post up how fast your setups are, so I know how far off I'll be with my crap setup.


----------



## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

This is a top build. Just goes to show that with some brains and ingenuity, you can create something pretty fast and most of all, reliable on a small budget.
I don't really understand why you, "Lysholm" are so quick to criticize a car you have never physically seen or had any actual experience with??








I was lucky enough to take this car for a spin a few times last week and it does everything he says it does. I can also vouch for the steady AFR.
This car is pretty quick for what it is, flawlessly smooth off boost and without the boost screwed up to around 15-20psi smooth all the way to the rev limiter (it has a 100 or so RPM rich stumble on high boost as pointed out).
Whether or not you think my information is credible, i don't really care.
Big ups to Mk1-20v for going against the grain and doing it his own way! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Lysholm (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Preen59)*

i suddenly realize that winning a disagreement on the internet is akin to winning the special olympics, since any critique to the work that you posted on the internet is not welcome, i simply wish you good luck, peace


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Lysholm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lysholm* »_i suddenly realize that winning a disagreement on the internet is akin to winning the special olympics, since any critique to the work that you posted on the internet is not welcome, i simply wish you good luck, peace 

I can take any kind of criticism & I do take it on board for next time & how to improve on stuff. But what really gets me, is criticism after the fact.
I have no problem with it during development/planning or while throwing ideas out there etc. As that's how you can learn new things & other techniques/idea's etc.
But I already built it, proved it worked & work's great, then I get stuff about how my setup is wrong, or your fueling is all over place & you should have fitted this or done it like this or that.
I also got that kind of stuff about using a non-recirc BOV on a CIS setup & people say it can't work & it stuff's everything up. It does work & works fine without dead spot's or fuel dumps.
Don't you think if my tune was so stuffed up on a 300+K unopened engine (apart from cam & valve springs) it would have blown up within 2000km. All the plugs still come out with a nice tanned electrode too!
I've done 15+K on it now & still continue to drive it 600+km a week for work duties & its still A OK! It also gets a consistent 32-34 MPG too!

So when I put the questions out there for some help before I started this project about other setups or tuning tips etc., I got nothing. Not a cracker. I got the same answer most people get. "Search" button & even while searching through months/years of info, some of the little tricks & tuning stuff are still kept hidden.
So I go off on my own to set about sorting it the best way I can think of what would work best, get it going & going awesome & then I get the experts come out & say crap about it.
Tha'ts not really all that helpful.

I still don't doubt your expertise in this field with some of your mentioned setups (which I'll be 100% honest & say I probably couldn't get my head around straight off), but I'm not exactly a pig farmer in OZ that doesn't have a clue. 
I work on & modify all sorts of cars & engines incl. big powered engines for a living for over 14 years.
So I ask politely. What sort of power have your 8v CIS turbo setups made & how fast have they been? If they were built engines etc.
So I can work out how my stock turbo'd setup fairs against properly built setups or callaway kits etc.
Thanks


_Modified by Mk1-20V at 9:57 PM 2-10-2010_


----------



## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

I love the whole setup.... the fact that you have put as many miles on it as you have does it for me... and the dual cold start injectors with adjustable hobs switch... GOLDEN http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I cant wait to have a fun project like this on my caddy...


----------



## Lysholm (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mk1-20V* »_
Sorry about the rant, but was just trying to explain me reasoning about the setup & also with friends like that behind you, they do have a clue about all sorts of things. Just cause they don't have it on there cars, doesn't mean they don't know how it works or how to mod it.
I fitted the MSD as I wound the boost upto 20psi & needed a ignition retard system. The stock modded vac advance, just wouldn't aloow to retard the amount I required.
Please post up how fast your setups are, so I know how far off I'll be with my crap setup.

no worries i'm cool, and again wasn't trying to attack misunderstood the extent of fueling issue, i still not a fan of the cold start injectors, but if the car is staying pig rich you're right you probly not gonna pop the motor, in truth you really should talk to Pete Tong he has the most experience with fine tuning fuel on cis w/o outside fuel adders...i personally was never willing to put in the time and always turned to pulsed controller, and currently i'm really cheating with the programmable stepping motor system that car hasn't been on the road in two years still a work in progress, really hoping to fix the body b4 i go further, i'll dig up some old pics, i don't know how many ive got lying around and there not digital, i had some slips on my original stage two rocc but we are talking about 15+ years ago 
lastly i think your current setup is far from crap, we just disagree on the emphasis of were you spent the $, in fact i was very excited when i saw the post read all three pages, having burned some pistons i figured you were looking for people to throw their $0.02 in...and yeah i'm blunt


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Lysholm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lysholm* »_
no worries i'm cool, and again wasn't trying to attack misunderstood the extent of fueling issue, i still not a fan of the cold start injectors, but if the car is staying pig rich you're right you probly not gonna pop the motor, in truth you really should talk to Pete Tong he has the most experience with fine tuning fuel on cis w/o outside fuel adders...i personally was never willing to put in the time and always turned to pulsed controller, and currently i'm really cheating with the programmable stepping motor system that car hasn't been on the road in two years still a work in progress, really hoping to fix the body b4 i go further, i'll dig up some old pics, i don't know how many ive got lying around and there not digital, i had some slips on my original stage two rocc but we are talking about 15+ years ago 
lastly i think your current setup is far from crap, we just disagree on the emphasis of were you spent the $, in fact i was very excited when i saw the post read all three pages, having burned some pistons i figured you were looking for people to throw their $0.02 in...and yeah i'm blunt









No worry's at all. No harm done. Thanks for clearing it all up.
Would be good if you could source some of the pics & slips. Very interested. Cheers
I'm still yet to melt anything incl. piston's. The engine just has a cold start/running death knock like an old mk1 diesel. Once warm it clears up. 
Not bad considering its an old, stock unopened high mileage engine, but it is still lasting quite good & still yet to burn oil too! Just leak it which I've since fixed.
The starting idea was to see how much punishment a stock 1.8L GX could handle incl. boost & how long it could go for. To say I'm surprised is still an understatement!

I wouldn't say its pig rich, as its only a rich stumble for a split second. After it clears its fueling (A/F ratio) is pretty spot on through out the entire range under nearly all loads from 14.6-14.9:1 idle, part load & cruise up to mid 12's:1 under full throttle. 
Compare these A/F figures with some of the newer cars with stuff like APR & GIAC tunes etc. on there dyno graphs & I'm not too far off overall.
Over the next few month's (if its still running!), I'll be driving it to some interstate VW shows which are both roughly a 2000km round trip for me. So I'll hopefully be adding another 4000+km over the next couple of months.
Some pics from the first watercooled/VAG only show in OZ. Was an absolute smash hit & hopefully it will only get bigger & better.
The show is alittle different, as its a peoples choice vote. No judging. If you like the car, you vote 1st & 2nd, with alot of different catagory's! Much more relaxed & gets rid of all the crap talk & back chat of other judging sort of shows!
Ended up with 1st Mk1 too!
















More pics from the day here....
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.a...40789


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_I love the whole setup.... the fact that you have put as many miles on it as you have does it for me... and the dual cold start injectors with adjustable hobs switch... GOLDEN http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I cant wait to have a fun project like this on my caddy...

Thanks for the cheers.
I'm hoping to put many more km's on it in the next few months too!


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

Well I've got to thank Lysholm for this alittle bit
Cause without his comments about the tune & also a split boost regulator hose, I wouldn't have worried about it & would have repaired the hose & carried on with the car as it was.
But improvement does get the better of you.
So after a good friend came down & drove this around alittle bit.
We both sat down, had some drinks & threw some ideas around about the tune & how to improve & fine tune it. Cause after the boost regulator unscrewed & boost regulator hose split, it threw the tune way out & I just couldn't find the old crazy tune again.
So I thought I'd give a few of the idea's a try & play around with them.
First off, I cleaned the K&N air filter which hadn't been cleaned since I built the car. So more or less 50+K!!!!! To say it was black & chocka block with dirt is an understatement. I've seen cleaner filters in vacuum cleaners!
Then replaced the fuel filter too.
Then onto refitting both the tuning equipment, being the Boost gauge & Air/Fuel Meter Gauge.
I started off repairing one of the cyl. head plastic fitting's that broke yesterday, causing a major air leak, which was basically the start of whole process of playing around with the tune.
I removed the Hobbs adjustable pressure switch for the Aux. injectors (cold start valves) & bench tested & then readjusted it from a 7psi cut in to 13psi cut in.
So when it hits the magical 13psi mark the extra injectors cut in & supply extra fuel on boost. Instead of dumping fuel in earlier at 7psi. Now it has a fair amount of extra air volume before dumping in extra fuel.
Then I readjusted the system pressure of the K-Jet system. I reshimmed up the system pressure regulator from 82psi to 94psi.
Then redjusted the ignition timing to approx 10BTDC.
Reset the Air/Fuel mixute at idle to approx. low 14's/high 13's:1 & seemed very happy.
The onto the R/test to reset the boost regulator. This took several start/stops to get it right. As when bench testing it, you don't get the same volume of air from the turbo as you would from 60 gallon air compressor tank.
After alot of R/testing & playing around, I ended up with it set at 20psi & adjusted the timing retard to approx 1.5 degrees per pound of boost.
With these few changes, the car has now come alive again
It certainly doesn't have the same amount of kick it did, but now it doesn't have any stutter or fuel dump at all. It will pull cleanly in all gears with a nice smooth surge & then when it hits 4K the surge gets greater & feels pretty nice!
So in 3rd & 4th when the boost starts coming on at 3500 rpm, the A/F ratio jumps rich at the start approx 10:1, leans back out to 12.5 & then right at the 6K make leans out to 13:1. So yes, it is leaning outright at the end of the rev range overall not too bad I reckon. Its not pinging or making any weird noises. If it was really leaning out it would ping badly!
So you can cruise along in [email protected]/h, plant it & without any stuttering, it can pull all the way to (let your imagination take over).
Now it doesn't wheel spin like it did & makes bugger all boost in 1st due to not building up enough engine load, but in 2nd it will boost & turn the tyres, hook up & away you go, 3rd & 4th come about very fast!
If you in 3rd at 60, it will also squeal the tyres on hot mix, pull nice & smoothly past the legal speed limit.

So overall. Even though the car isn't as fast as it was or turn the tyres as violently as it did , its feels only a fraction slower & it's a much nicer & heaps easier car to drive. Which is also pretty bloody fast.

P.S. I do take criticism on board in a positive way!


----------



## nairmac (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

Thank you for all of the info you've shared in this thread- it will come in handy once I get my turbo rebuilt, very soon. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (nairmac)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nairmac* »_Thank you for all of the info you've shared in this thread- it will come in handy once I get my turbo rebuilt, very soon. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

No worry's at all.
My pleasure to spend the time, post up the info & pics & help people out.
I'm still yet to find a more detailed K-Jet turbo build up thread which provides all the tricks etc.
It maybe alittle crude in some aspects, but it works.

Hopefully very soon, I can put some coin aside & get it to the track & post up some times
Enjoy.


----------



## instg8r (Sep 22, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

awesome....after reading this I feel like back into a CIS Turbo car.

great build and thanks for the time spent on sharing it with us.


----------



## Lysholm (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

i dug up some pics of the 77 when i changed the engine trans from 1.6 4speed to 1.8 5 speed, i have more pics...everywhere...but i'll gather up some more stuff, got some pretty cool pics of callaway water injection nozzle etc.
the car...
















stg 1 setup coming out...
















stage two setup w/ head off, getting metal g60 gasket after some dope left a rag stuffed in intake port which got pulled into engine...you can see the freshly rebuilt/balanced rotomaster out back








i'll take some more pics of the new programable control pressure system


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Lysholm)*

Thats cool as Lysholm.
Keep the pics coming.
Did your Scirocco have a bottom mount style callaway intercooler in the 3rd? 

Love this stuff, cause we never got the mk1 gti or any fuel injected mk1 golf for that matter delivered in OZ, let alone having callaway turbo kits available here!
We have to source "a p p piece from here & a p p piece from there" (mad max quote) for setup's



_Modified by Mk1-20V at 12:12 PM 2-22-2010_


----------



## corwine123 (Sep 8, 2007)

great stuff man. Gives me a bit of inspiration for my next project. How did you go about doing the front bench seat?


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (corwine123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *corwine123* »_great stuff man. Gives me a bit of inspiration for my next project. How did you go about doing the front bench seat? 

Cheers dude.

I just stripped 2 front seat bases, welded & supported them together with some box & round tubing.
Then fitted an old rear seat on top & welded & supported the sides once I found a comfy backrest position.
The only down side was the seat sat up too high, but I didn't have to remove the handbrake lever either.
It was only fitted for that weekend.

Phase 2 of the bench seat will come about once I've built an auto & can remove the handbrake all together. Then the seat can be lowered right down & feel really comfy & low rider like.


----------



## Lysholm (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

got some more stuff, bear with me my wife's camera hates me so this is more work than it should be...
callaway intake pipe tapped for water injection nozzle, stage 1 setup, there was also a stage 1 throttle casting that had boss cast into it to shoot water injection directly at throttle plates








here's a really crappy pic of the water injection nozzle, activated w/ an adjustable honeywell hobbs switch








this is the turbonetics Deltagate 1 w/ the stainless bellows that worm gear clamps...and no i'm not kidding...to the downpipe, callaway later switched to the deltagate 2, which is plumbed the same way and interchangable 








callaway stage 1 throttle casting from turbo w/out water injection boss cast into it








this is stage 2 casting w/ 5th injector, followed by the callaway microfueler...i forget who made the controller for callaway but i don't think they are in business anymore
























couple pics of the Unwired Tools fuel system i run now, first is the stepper motor controlled needle valve body that fluctuates fuel based on map signal and engine rpm, which is laptop programable and flashed onto the controller in second pic
















and what happens when you get a little gauge crazy in the cabin...











_Modified by Lysholm at 5:00 PM 2-28-2010_


----------



## Lysholm (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Lysholm)*

just found the wall of shame stuff...these are a bit embarassing...
cold nite in january more than a decade ago goin 100+ mph for 20 miles down Interstate this happened, keep in mind the car had been sitting for a year undriven just before this
oops what happend to two








and the little bits of crap on the rear crowns of the other pistons are in fact pieces of the top ring on two...really 5psi did this








and the head








but have no fear still own the car, got a PG motor w/ twinscrew charger and then got bored w/ that and is now a long term project that hopefully will resume next fall
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2591332
cheers dude, stay out of the sun, i got a whole bunch of callaway literature that i'll scan and link to this for you, just gotta get a bit of time to do it...


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Lysholm)*

Your not wrong about having a gauge obsession!!!
Damn. 5psi & meltdown!!!!
Kind of makes me get alittle worried about running 16-18psi on my stock 250+K GX engine!!!. Still unopened too, apart from a Autotech 270 cam, HD valve springs & having the sump off to weld in the oil drain & fit the windage tray
Keep the pics & info coming!
This is all great stuff & good to see some more discussion about K-Jet & forced induction.
Hopefully we may hear from the K-Jet turbo king from this fame in the 90's!!!!


----------



## corwine123 (Sep 8, 2007)

how would you feel about the ability of the 1.7 to hold up to about 10psi. I think i might try it after i already have a spare 1.8 just incase.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (corwine123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *corwine123* »_how would you feel about the ability of the 1.7 to hold up to about 10psi. I think i might try it after i already have a spare 1.8 just incase.

If you can get your fueling & timing right (IE the tune), you shouldn't have any problems I don't think.
Is so far ran 23psi at one stage without any drama's on my stock engine.
But I didn't run it for very long like that & have since wound it down for conservative reasons & making it last abit longer.
But on 16-18psi its fine for everyday use.
I wouldna't run it for extended periods of time like this though. Dragging yes, but not for race track work. 
I still don't have an oil cooler for this thing yet, so its not exactly ideal for extended punishment


----------



## OchoCinco5k (Apr 19, 2008)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

This is a great inspiration to all CIS equipeed cars. Hopefully I should have something like this setup on my Audi 5000


----------



## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lysholm* »_
oops what happend to two










funny... same thing happened to the same piston on my 3A block on the Dyno... it was wastegated at 7psi (but still needed more tuning)


----------



## FetusGoulash (Jan 25, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Southcross)*

Fantastic build thread. Thank you! I just recently decided to start a new project car with a turbo CIS 8v as the starting point and your thread makes me really stoked to get started. 
I am sure you will hear from me later this year with questions! 
PS. you really need to get this car on the dyno before that motor grenades! I am very curious to see what sort of numbers i puts down
PPS: start working on your sierra pickup! cant wait to see what you do with that as well.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (FetusGoulash)*

Ok. Alittle update.
The car has now done 20K on the turbo setup & all has been going well until last Fri. night when the gearbox decided to start making some unusual noises which were more prominent in 2nd gear. (this is the powerskid gear, so it cops all of the abuse I dish out to it!)
I thought. Bugger it & I'll keep driving it. Whats the worst that can happen? right?
So I've been bumming around in it for the last couple of days & with a last minute decision to head upto the VW Jamboree, I was off with gearbox noise in tow.
By the time I finally got to the park, the car was making a loud enough racket that I could hear it over the engine especially in 2nd gear! Even with light taking off & babying it ,it was noisy as hell. You could even just have it idling away in neutral & it was noisy.
So after the show, we headed back to a mates house for a catch up & once again we were off. Well by the time I got into Melb. people were actually taking notice at how loud the noise had become in traffic! haha
But I pushed on (more like babied on!) for the 2 hour drive & finally made it into my driveway where on arrival it went *""BANG"" * 
It locked up in 1st gear & had no drive what so ever. The noise in neutral & idle is unbelievable! Just full of bearing & crunching noises! Lucky it didn't punch any holes in the casing either. But by the sounds of it, I reckon its junk!

So I'll bang in the ever trusty diesel 4spd which I always rely on in need which has never let me down.
that is until I push god knows how much power though it! Only time will tell.
I'd post up a vid of it idling away, but I have no idea how to upload vids off the camera & they are bloody massive files too!

Pic from the VW Jamboree car show. 
ended up with 1st best "standard" even with the bonnet popped! Funny thing is, it was probably the most modified VW there! haha









So finally something major broke! Just shows how strong the old bangers can be! Even with boost.

Haha. I thought the engine would let go long before the gearbox. Wonder how much longer it will last?


_Modified by Mk1-20V at 8:39 PM 3-21-2010_


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

Well I finally got enough motivation to get out into the shed & carry out what I thought would be a straight gearbox swap.
Not too be.
Once I removed the gearbox, I found bits & pieces of metal fragments inside the bellhousing & scratch marks all around the flywheel!
So off with the clutch & with a light I also found not only did I destroy the gearbox, I also destroyed the clutch drive plate!!!!!!
On with the pics
Think of your clutch plate drives your gearbox input shaft & from friction material drive section (outer section) is drives through a set of dampening springs & onto a metal star shaped item which then drives the input shaft.
Well I smashed up the metal star drive plate & nearly stripped out the dampening springs out of the housing too!

















































So after having a bit of a "what the f$#k do I do now?" moment, I moved onto stripping the gearbox to have a "captain cook"
What I found was no great surprise to me by the sounds the old gearbox was making but...
It stripped both 2nd gear driver & driven gear & also mashed up the layshaft out support bearing! 









































So all in all, pretty much screwed! No signs of the diff rivets letting go or any other bearing marks from little metal fragments getting through the oil.

So for now, I'll source another HD clutch hopefully this week & refit the trusty old diesel 4spd which I always resort too in times of need!


----------



## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

best boosted CIS thread ever!! tons of great info here!


----------



## NORDLAND (Jan 9, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (RABIDRABBIT1983)*

To the Op.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but have you tried tuning your boost curve to the cis (your) fuel curve?...you know how cis kind of starts off pig rich and tapers off...now if some how, some way (as cheaply as possible)you were able to play around with the boost curve, you know give it more where you got plenty of fuel....I'm pretty sure you know what I mean and I'm sure you could come up with something.
I wonder how this would work.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (NORDLAND)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NORDLAND* »_To the Op.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but have you tried tuning your boost curve to the cis (your) fuel curve?...you know how cis kind of starts off pig rich and tapers off...now if some how, some way (as cheaply as possible)you were able to play around with the boost curve, you know give it more where you got plenty of fuel....I'm pretty sure you know what I mean and I'm sure you could come up with something.
I wonder how this would work.

Its a very interesting concept.
The only thing that I can see is a problem is the boost curve is very short. 
Nothing happens till at least 4000rpm. It will start to boost before this, but nothing will happen & then it will come in with a bang.
I think this is a common problem with old early 80's technology turbos.
Hopefully someone with more turbo knowledge can chime in on this.
I've tried to tune the fuel as best as I could with the setup & have made it so I have extra fuel coming in with the aux. injectors just before the stock injector setup starts nosing off/leaning out.
At the moment with the boost set at 16-17psi, the fuel curve only just starts to lean a tiny fraction right at the end of the rev range, but only in higher gears eg 4th @ 6000rpm which you rarely ever see on the street.


----------



## NORDLAND (Jan 9, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mk1-20V* »_
Its a very interesting concept. 

Yes it is....its been done before.

_Quote, originally posted by *Mk1-20V* »_
....The only thing that I can see is a problem is the boost curve is very short. 
Nothing happens till at least 4000rpm. It will start to boost before this, but nothing will happen & then it will come in with a bang.
I think this is a common problem with old early 80's technology turbos.
Hopefully someone with more turbo knowledge can chime in on this.
I've tried to tune the fuel as best as I could with the setup & have made it so I have extra fuel coming in with the aux. injectors just before the stock injector setup starts nosing off/leaning out.
At the moment with the boost set at 16-17psi, the fuel curve only just starts to lean a tiny fraction right at the end of the rev range, but only in higher gears eg 4th @ 6000rpm which you rarely ever see on the street. 

Hmm....I wonder what the rise in boost curve would look like if the wastegate was clamped shut and kind of let it shoot up to where ever you still could maintain a nice afr and sort of taper it down while maintaining a decent afr.
As for "tuning the fuel", instead of tuning the CIS to the motor, think of tuning the motor to the CIS.
You're a "tinkerer"....I know you know what I mean, and I also know you can do this....If you want to that is!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (NORDLAND)*

wouldn't that be more settling for what cis can do? how about changing the curving of the funnel like el drifto does? then you wouldn't be sacrificing boost to have a "well tuned" system being limited by cis, but instead have a well tuned system with cis curved along with boost. maybe more trial and error to get the curve where you want it, and it'd still be a bit off..
or did you already do this somewhere in the build thread? i haven't read it in a while.
btw mad props. going to be doing a cis-e turbo soon hopefully


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (ziddey)*

As cool as all the idea's & thoughts are & appreciate all them 100%,
I'm pretty happy with how the tune is at the moment with boost, A/F ratio, power & fuel ecomony etc. & is an awesome daily driver.
At the moment, I'm not really concentrating on the CIS setup anymore, as I've accomplished what I set out to do (except for dragging it & seeing what its made of) & moving onto a couple of other builds incl. my Chev truck project & also looking into a massive power upgrade in this 76er with a auto'd 20vt fitted with all the goodies inside & a 3076r.
Hopefully this will sort of satisfy my power hunger when its all done. 
Oh. the mk1 will look identical to how it already & hopefully get some much needed body & rust straightened out! 
But for now I finally drew up enough motivation to fit a new clutch & fit another gearbox.
Its just a stock replacement 210mm clutch for now, but refitted the new clutch plate with the HD clutch pressure plate I already had for alittle more bite.
Hopefully the stock old diesel 4psd box can cope.

Time will tell! 


_Modified by Mk1-20V at 10:49 PM 4-3-2010_


----------



## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Great work as always dude.
Can't wait to see what the new improved tune is like since we played around with it last time! You better come up this way next month!


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (Preen59)*

Well, I finally got some time to bed in the clutch & take the old banger for a spin.
The old diesel 4spd ratios weren't half bad with the NA's 276TT cammed setup, but with the turbo.....
diesel ratios are 1st & 2nd are close then a long jump to 3rd with a short jump into 4th

So now it will light the tyres up just about where ever & when ever it feels in 2nd, whereas before it would still light them up, but would power on through to nearly 100. It was the power gear!
Now with the shorter ratio, its all over & done with much earlier & you have to shift into a far away 3rd & bogs down for a split second & then away it goes again.
Coming home it spun up in 3rd through a corner, so its still not tall enough that it can't break traction in 3rd pushing 100!

Will have to deal with it until the next gearbox failure!


----------



## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mk1-20V* »_Coming home it spun up in 3rd through a corner, so its still not tall enough that it can't break traction in 3rd pushing 100!

That's disgusting


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (ziddey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ziddey* »_
That's disgusting
















I wouldn't say its as crazy as it sound's, but its pretty fun.
Its stupidity in the wet too!

I should get some in car footage, when I can afford a proper video cam setup.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (BSD)*

Bordom has been kicking lately with this car so I thought I'd add something for stupidity & laughs.
Behold. 
Garfield!
My nephew & niece love it. Even though they don't actually know who Garfield is!









Also removed the stock wheel chrome centre caps for a more conservative base model black cap. I like it, but its a bit more of a pain to clean.
But much better than cleaning the old Ronal R8's & Porsche wheels

















The cars also done nearly 25K on the turbo setup & "still" going strong too!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well I finally got around to racing the HOS (mk1 golf) this arvo/tonight.

My prediction as many people would know was approx a high 13 @ 100mph.

Tonight didn't disappoint!

Ran the car in full street trim, as I drive it to work everyday. All that was removed was the spare wheel & jack.
Full seat's, trim everything, even down to the crummy 13" Bob Jane Allrounders!

I did cop alittle bit of flack while waiting in line, but after the first run & with that mph & high time, the true drag racers & people that know whats going on took notice, & then alot of people were interested & when I said its my daily driver that does 700+km a week, they were dumb founded & instantly said "that much be one fun street car!"



1st run

14.36 @ 101.8mph 2.6 60ft! Yes very lazy take off, but was also on the bald 165/65R13's!!

2nd

Fitted up the stickier road tyres with 10psi

13.99 @ 101.53mph 2.3 60ft. Still lazy & slow on the take off. Slight wheel spin & mild clutch slip

3rd 

13.78 @ 101.6mph 2.2 60 ft. Still very slow take off as I didn't want to just rev it up & dump it & break it "AGAIN!", slight wheel spin & mild clutch slip.


I reckon with a proper race clutch, alittle bit more track time & a few suspension tweeks there is still a few tenth's in it.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)




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## CFK (Dec 24, 2005)

WOW, very impressive. Almost makes me re-think my decision to bail on my CIS and go standalone. Very cool set-up, but since it's not a Callaway you should probably sell me that gauge


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

CFK said:


> WOW, very impressive. Almost makes me re-think my decision to bail on my CIS and go standalone. Very cool set-up, but since it's not a Callaway you should probably sell me that gauge


cheers dude.

Haha. I paid good coin for that gauge along time ago. 

I only fit it while tuning so its not fitted permanently.

Would consider it if the price is right!


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## CFK (Dec 24, 2005)

Just giving you a hard time, own 2 already........maybe. I couldn't find the my first. So I bought another . Hope it turns up, otherwise it got thrown in the garbage with the packing


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Some pics from the Meeting






















One of the most entertaining cars of the day!!!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Thought I'd just up date this as not much has been going on with the car apart from being driven & driven hard. 

Now the setup has clocked over 25+k & so far the only problem that has just started has been the $200 turbo has started to smoke just after cold start up during warm up. It doesn't smoke continuously, but the seals must leak oil during the cool down & pool up inside the exhaust housing. Which when warming up decides to smoke for a couple of minutes. Not to flash while sitting in traffic either!

So as the turbo has to be repaired, its much cheaper just to upgrade & I'll now be upgrading to a T3/4E 50 trim .48A/R & looking at retuning the K-Jet system with more fuel pressure & possibly another extra injector. 

I'd like to push the K-Jet gear as far as I can within money reasoning. If it gets to the point of having to buy more K-Jet gear (which is very expensive in Aust.), I'll just upgrade to standalone. 

But for the time being, I'll stick with it & try & push it as far as I can within reason. 

I'd also like to be one of the fastest FWD VW's in OZ (which is only a high 12 in a stripped out car with race fuel!) & would be nice & more of a challenge to use a fuel system which too many people in OZ underrate & think its crap & can't be tuned properly. It would also be nice to do it in a 34 year old Mk1 instead of everyone using the easier to mod Mk5's! 

If I can get it to do this all on still a bone stock 1.8L 300+K engine & make it live, I can't wait for EFI & a properly built engine!


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## 16v_kid (Jun 8, 2009)

Sounds very exciting Tim. 

Interesting in getting some times around the track? or just straight line?

Cheers mate,
G.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

16v_kid said:


> Sounds very exciting Tim.
> 
> Interesting in getting some times around the track? or just straight line?
> 
> ...


 Well at the moment, my new turbo is on hold, as a certain turbo company is taking its sweet arse time with replying. Like waiting over a month after repeated emails!!! 

Which is strange as I've dealt with them numerous times over the years, with nothing but excellent customer service. Never again!!!!



This engine/turbo setup is a ticking time bomb just waiting to happen! 

How long do you think a stock 300+K old engine can take 16-18+psi for???

Plus I still travel 600km a week for daily duties.

I'd rather keep it to being abused 13-14 secs at a time, instead of belted around a track for 20+min sessions. It just won't last. 

Plus with the gearing, I'm maxed out just after 400m too. So that really eliminates most of the local race tracks which have 500+meter straights. (Phillip Islands main straight is 900meters long!!!) Why flog a dead horse????

I've done some track work before with other cars & as fun as it can be & as competitive as I was with the equipment I had, I really just don't have that much interest in it.


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## 16v_kid (Jun 8, 2009)

John Milner said:


> Well at the moment, my new turbo is on hold, as a certain turbo company is taking its sweet arse time with replying. Like waiting over a month after repeated emails!!!
> 
> Which is strange as I've dealt with them numerous times over the years, with nothing but excellent customer service. Never again!!!!
> 
> ...


 
Fair enough Tim. 

Yeah, with that much km and running 14-15psi it is a ticking time bomb. What are you going to do when the engine blows? Re-build it or do I hear a 20vt  

Bugger about the company for the turbo's. I hope everything works out well mate.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

16v_kid said:


> Fair enough Tim.
> 
> Yeah, with that much km and running 14-15psi it is a ticking time bomb. What are you going to do when the engine blows? Re-build it or do I hear a 20vt
> 
> Bugger about the company for the turbo's. I hope everything works out well mate.


 
If the engine blows up, then I'll probably strip it & push it out the back & leave it to rot. 

I had thought about slapping in a set of stock 20vt rods & pistons I've got here into the 8v block & maybe convert it all to standalone. 

Which once setup, the conversion over to a 20vt is made easier, as all the major components will be set up already in the car, but at the moment, I'm just not interested all that much in cars anymore. I still want to race it again though. 

I could spend the money on other things.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well not too much has really been going.

Lost my licence last month for 30 days due to some scalliwag behavior earlier this year, so the car has just been sitting.

Finally got some new engine mounts 

Long story short, its not the ones I was actually after.

If these aren't upto scratch, a friend of mine will machine up some new ones using a harder compound. 


Also going to start on fabbing up some new style "bush" type front & rear engine mounts.

The black "block" mount is actually a genuine VW Motorsport mount I brought along time ago & is as stiff as bricks.

Hopefully this setup will eliminate engine/gearbox twist & put more power to the wheels instead of waisting power twisting up the engine/gearbox










Once these are installed, I'm going to have a play around with some more fueling mods & crank alittle bit more boost into it.

Hopefully be back at the track very soon with some better results. 

Low 13's, bust or blow up!!!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well I got around to fitting up the mounts today. 

Thought it would be fairly straight forward! No such luck!

Noticed that the RH mount is cast upside down!!!! The offset locating hole of suppose to be offset to the bottom.

But BFI cast it upside down with the offset up the top & with the cut out for the engine mount bolt.

VW have there offset's located down the bottom. You can see the arrow's which way is up










BFI cutout










Engine mount offset is upside down!!!!










Out with the die grinder & a square headed burr bit. 










The right way around!!




















Luckily I didn't wait around for the stage 2 mounts, as I was already waiting for 3 weeks without any progress of when I'd see them. So I just got whatever the distributor had on stock. Would of been even more pissed if I had of waited 1.5 months parts & then had to modify them!!!

Its annoying as you get some new parts & are all excited about fitting them up & trying them out, only to have the experience ruining due to incorrect fitting parts!!


Anyway, I did get a chance to try them out. Now I'm sure that the mount kit by itself is ok & would make it only slightly more rougher & restricting the engine/gearbox from moving. 

But with the rock hard VW Motorsport mount, its basically like solid mounting the engine/gearbox very rough!!!! The engine/gearbox doesn't move one bit


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well after a bit over a week of running with the BFI stage 1 engine mounts & doing nearly 600km with them. The car has nearly shaken itself to bits! 

I can safely say they are "definitely not" for the daily driver! 

But will keep them for another project somewhere down the line, cause they improve the gearshift quality heaps & also help put power to the ground. 

Will probably just fit the VW motorsport rear mount whenever I race it. 

Have since fitted a new set of genuine VW diesel mounts & the car is back to being nice, smooth & quiet. 

Now just have to fix all the rattles the other mounts have created!!!!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Its been a while since my last update & not much has really been going on, but there are some plans & parts in the making to keep me moving forward.

So far the turbo'd setup is 11 months old & has covered 31K without any major hiccups apart from a smashed gearbox & blown boost controller hoses. The engine is still going & feeling strong & still uses very little oil as before. 

I'm still traveling 500+km a week too for the work commute & daily drive.

I've just recently ordered a new clutch, which is the highest spec one I could get for serious drag & race duties along with a MSD 3 step RPM controller & a set of ARP 020 diff bolts. 

So until all the parts have arrived, there will be no racing till then. 

But the plan is to fit the 3 step module, have the flywheel machined, strip the gearbox & fit the bolt kit & lock the diff up too. (I've got some experience with welding up indestructible diff centres too! haha). 

Once its all done, I'll bed in the clutch, test out the 3 step & then off to the drags again. Hopefully get closer to the low 13 or maybe even faster! 

But I'm not in interested in stripping out the car to save weight to go faster. No point when its just a street car.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Thought I'd post up a update of whats been happening, even though there isn't much interest.

But for all the CIS turbo/tune haters, you can finally have a laugh!

The car finally had a bit of a melt down a couple of weekends ago.


How long will can a stock VW engine last for???

32,000km on a bone stock 350-400K unopened engine (bar cam & springs) with 16-18psi of boost using CIS. 

I drove the car 300km to a weekend performance car event & decided at the last minute to enter.

Anyway. The car copped a pasting all weekend by myself & a couple of mates with track duties, drag racing & powerskids.

On the morning of the last day, I thought I'd just check over the fluids, only to find the oil catch can had spewed a fair amount of oil out all over the RHS of the engine bay! It had also developed a fair amount of oil sweat around the base of #2 spark plug, which on removal I found it soaked in oil & had a build up of deposits on the electrode.

So I left the decision with a mate of mine if he still wanted to take it out & give it hell, to which he said "yes". So with a quick clean up, out he went again.

When he came back in after the session, the oil had spewed out again & lined not only the RHS of the engine bay, but also the RHF inner guard, all of its components & part way down the RH floor pan in oil too!

So I wound the boost back to spring pressure, cleaned it down & drove it the 300km home without a problem apart from being a tiny bit smokey on long hills.

Since being back at home, I found the engine to be still running strong (apart from alittle bit of smoke), so I wound the boost back upto 16-18psi, fitted my MSD 3 step module (which is absolutely awesome fun!!!) & have still been driving it for daily duties, hard driving/boosting & have added another 3000km on a stuffed engine!!!!! 
It still hasn't used much oil apart from being alittle smokey & spewing alittle bit out of the catch can & its still getting an average of 35L/420km.

But not to worry, as I'm still driving the car 500km a week & will continue to until all my parts arrive. So all up the engine will have covered 35-36K before I strip it down.

I've ordered a new set of rings & bearings along with a full set of ARP main studs, head studs & rod bolts & also a G60 headgasket. 
The plan is to strip it down, check whats wrong. Whether its a broken oil ring or a cracked piston. Replace the damaged parts (I've got a few spare stock GX pistons here), a quick hone & back together.
The gearbox will be stripped down at the same time & I'll fit the ARP diff bolt set, lock the diff up & fit the new clutch.
I'll send the turbo off too, to have it rebuilt & possibly have it high flowed at the same time.

Once its all back together, run in hard, I'll take it to the track & hopefully be able to shave a few tenths of my previous best of [email protected]

Photo's will come once the engine is pulled, stripped down & the rebuild commences.

Stay tuned.


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Hey John!

I've been following this thread since the beginning and its helped me out very much for my cis turbo build, keep up the good work :beer: 
I cant wait to see the results after the engine overhaul.
Heres a link to my project: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4985944-8v-engine-rebuild-CIS-turbo

Cheers!:beer:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

jason08 said:


> Hey John!
> 
> I've been following this thread since the beginning and its helped me out very much for my cis turbo build, keep up the good work :beer:
> I cant wait to see the results after the engine overhaul.
> ...


Cheers Jason.

Glad some of my info is helping others.

I had a read through your thread earlier today & I'm also very interested to see how it all goes.

Your setup list is very impressive. Especially building a proper motor to take boost instead of my slap together setup! haha.

Looking forward to seeing how your volvo turbo goes too!

I'd consider deleting your cold start system & utilize it for extra fueling with a hobbs switch. I'd also get rid of the aux. air valve, as this is just another place that hose/piping can blow off when boost is applied & also where boost can bypass/leak. Thats just me though, as I found the car runs just as well without it all.




Anyway. A couple of pics I had in my camera of a few parts & also some of the spewed out oil!

MSD 3 Step module. Which is now fitted & is an absolute blast to use. 2nd gear, hold the button, bring the revs upto the 4800rpm pill & have it start to pop, bang & fart while building boost upto 16+psi. Let the button off & dumped the clutch & enjoy the 60+m powerskids!!!!!

I wired it through a 3 way switch using the module earth to allow me to switch between using the horn as normal & then switch over to earth out the 3 step. There is also a normal 12V kill switch, so there isn't 12V constantly applied to the module. So all you do is power up the module, switch over from the horn to the 3 step & you have a very stealthy setup which is not only very easy to use but its within a fingers reach to the horn button & no extra buttons/wires hanging off the steering wheel. 

I may get a video of it before I pull the car apart.










This is only a tiny bit of oil compared to what actually came out after a weekend of track work.










Oil sweat bleeding past #2 plug.










The oil sweat pumped out into the entire RHF inner guard, all its components & part way down the RHS floorpan!!!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

A couple of pics from Performance Car Mania

Setting up camp. My friends old 500+hp Holden HG Premier & another friends airbagged Passat wagon.











As we were basically the photo car, there was nothing taken of my own car out on the track unfortunately. But it doesn't matter. We still had a ball.

This is sitting in line waiting to get out onto the track


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well I decided I'd finally get alittle bit of video footage of the 2-step in action. Mind you this is still on the existing engine with a cracked piston/oil ring & still has 16-18psi wound into it too!!!!

Was also good to get it done before the engine is yanked & rebuilt too. After several launches/powerskids it pumped a heap of oil out of the catch can too! But I'll continue to drive it till all the parts arrive next week sometime I hope.

Now I'm not sure, but I'm yet to see or find anyone else who has fitted a 2/3 step module to a K-Jet car before. 
I hope someone will post up & let me know, otherwise is may just be a first!

Also took some pics, cause I was bored waiting for my friend to meet me there

MSD 3 step module fitted in the plenum chamber next to the 6 BTM.










Boredom.




























2 step launch/powerskid in 2nd gear

The turbo isn't big enough for you to be able to hear it spool up from outside the car, but you can definitely hear it wind up inside the car!!!






Another one just for fun! I did try it in 3rd, but the poor old clutch is not only a stock replacement, but also shagged too


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well I picked up another box from Fed Ex & now I'm only waiting on one more part to come, which is the Clutch Kit. Should be here early next week I hope.

But for now, I have all the parts required to pull the engine & start on the rebuilding of it, which I should make a start this weekend for sure.

So far the parts line up is...

VRS set
G60 Steel Headgasket
Short motor gasket set
ARP Main Stud Kit
ARP Head Stud Kit
ARP Rod bolt kit
Main bearings set(6-piece thrust washer)
Big end bearing set
New oil pump pick up baffle
New NGK BKR7E Spark Plugs
New Hengst paper style oil filter (retrofitted a hengst late model style alloy housing, as it was just lying around not being used)
T3 flanged exhaust gasket
Oil Drain gasket
3" Dump Pipe Gasket
Full set of new Pressure Plate & Flywheel bolts
A full set of seals & gaskets for a 020 4spd box
ARP Diff Ring Gear Bolt Kit


The best bit!!!

The new turbo arrived today along with the new style Tial Recirc BOV. 

I decided to go with a recirc style valve not cause my current atmo one doesn't work. It works 100% OK, but rather sick of the noise. The car is stealthy enough, but when taking off, you get the whooooosh & I hate it!!
Plus this bolts straight onto my existing Tial mount, so I only have to mod the turbo inlet pipe with a 1.25" flange for a 90° hose to plumb it

Anyway, the turbo is a T3/4 50 trim, .48A/R with a stage 3 wheel.

The turbo is a fair bit bigger than the Stock Saab T3 currently fitted to the car & I think I may run into a couple of dramas in stuffing it in down under the intake along with the wastegate actuator. Which I had a couple of drama's fitting with the smaller T3!

The turbo also has a larger intake, so I will need to resize the intake piping.

Anyway. On with some pics














































Here is the T3/4 on the right with a GT3076R on the left, I have here for another engine build when much more funds allow.

Once the old T3 is out, I'll put them all up against each other for a comparison. I can safely say the T3/4 has a much larger exhaust wheel & compressor housing.




















I'll try post up pics along the way during the rebuild which will not only be the engine, but also all the porting of the head (which I nearly have down pat), match porting of the intake & exhaust manifolds & also the turbo exhaust inlet & the stripping & modifying the box of gears too.
The head will be skimmed & the flywheel will be surfaced too.

A bit of a play with some porting burrs. These are only test ports & haven't had any finishing work done with cartridge rolls etc. The proper ones will be mint!




















The plan is to get it all together, run it in hard on 10psi with a conservative tune, bed the clutch in properly & then start to step the boost up again. I'd like to hope that I can make the same power as before, but with about 12-13psi. So if I can fuel this turbo upto 16-18psi, it should thump the current setup, or just blow the engine up! We'll see. 

If everything goes to plan, I'll try & get it back to the drags to see how much of a improvement it has made.


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

I'll send your bad boy off (the one on the left) on Monday, mate! Can't wait to try these bad boys out.











A quote from my nitro tuner mate Rick in CA, who i got these sent to before i got them back downunder..



> Hey, Chris.... And now you want pictures? The pressure plates measure out to your dimension but I cannot measure the splined hubs. Seems like nice hardware, though. What's it for? A VW on fuel??? See you guys soon!
> Rick


He reckons they look just like a T/F clutch. Pretty impressed with them. Hopefully they'll handle 200+HP then hey? haha.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well I finally managed to source an engine crane to make life abit easier & basically went hammer & thongs to get as much done today as possible, as I was already running a day behind what due to having to sit on my hands waiting for a crane.

But once it was on the floor, it wasn't long before it was on the stand & the strip down began.

On closer inspection of everything, the engine was in pretty good condition, considering the amount of km & the even more amount of abuse it has copped with.

But all the big end bearing, main bearings, thrust washers etc were all in reasonable condition, with only a couple of score marks. The crank journals were also in good condition.

What really surprised me was how worn the pistons were. You could actually see the rings down beside the piston. I was also able to rock the piston a far amount in the bore, way more than usual!!!!!

Bores weren't too bad either apart being out of round for starters & also a couple of marks, water marks etc, from when it was sitting around on the floor for several years. 

Pistons, rings, rods etc were also in reasonable condition, apart from a couple of scuff marks.

Cyl. head wasn't in such a great shape. It appeared it had swallowed something in early in its life & the dents in the quench zone proved that. You don't get these sort of marks from pinging! 
All the valve guides were also worn, especially the exhaust which is normal. Valve seats weren't too bad either.
This head is also a 38mm/33mm head. Damn!!!!

After a strip down evaluation & a sit down for some lunch, I though about how I'll tackle it, as I don't have enough spare coin for a full rebuild incl. good rods, pistons, machine work, cyl. head overhaul, new valves, guides etc.

So after a bit of umming & arghing, I thought. Bugger it! I'll do exactly as I planned to do & reuse the worn pistons, rods, valves, cyl. head etc & see how long this engine can cope as a bit of an experiment.

Cause after a inspection I reckon as the engine hadn't damaged a piston/rings as I first thought, there would be no reason why this engine couldn't do another 30+K on the turbo'd setup.

Anyway. On with some pics





























































































































































































































































































Heres the old Saab T3 turbo next to the new T3/4.





















































































I got stuck into ported the head & I started off removing the sharp quench area's & also de-shrouding the valves.

I also decided to shape the intake ports & tried my best to try & redirect the intake around the long side of the port & direct the charge into the centre of the combustion chamber to promote a swirl/well mixed charge.

I also added a nice long bump on the short/inner side of the port to promote the charge to slow down to help with both slowing down the charge so it doesn't counter act against the fast moving long side charge & also help swing around the short turn
The exhaust I copied as before. I feel they came out better than my test port job.
They feel pretty smooth straight off the burr & have a nice smooth flowing surface to get in & out.
Still waiting on the cartridge rolls & will finish it all off sometime early next week


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Preen59 said:


> I'll send your bad boy off (the one on the left) on Monday, mate! Can't wait to try these bad boys out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome dude!

Can't wait to get my hands on this, fit it & begin to use my new foot press'! haha


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

I tried out some advice from a cyl. head guru over here which was to flatten out the port floor. 

I still have a couple of tiny things to blend & reshape on the guide boss', the port floor alittle bit flatter & also smooth out the radius' of the port floor to the port walls, but you get the idea. 

I'm yet to see another 8V port which is shaped like this, but happy to be shown some. 

I had some large round flap sanders which I was able to finish the port runners & bowls, but they are too large to get in & around the corners & guide boss' 

I might also reshape where the seat is pressed into the head & protrudes into the chamber. 

You can see a bit more clearly the damage to the cyl. head after it swallowed something in a previous life to when I've had it. 

Looking forward to seeing how they flow with a smaller 38mm valve compared to the big guns of VW head porting & even the eurospec heads. 

This is all for the pics of the porting for a while sorry. 

But I'll get some more once everything has been finally smoothed & blended. 

Then I'll try & flog my credit card some more to get some flow numbers to prove if all my work has been worth it.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well alot has been happening the last few days & most of it has been running around & just basic cleaning of everything. But I did get to drop the head off for a skim & also had the flywheel machined too.

I finally got the gearbox stripped down & cleaned. All looks pretty good inside (bearings, races etc) considering how old it is & also how much of a beating it has copped.

Got the diff out, drilled off the rivet heads & then pressed the rest out at work with an ol skool massive press. 

Now just have to weld in some thick plates for the spider gears to lock it all up & fit the ARP diff bolt kits.




























I also finally got my Porting Cartridge roll set & set to work blending & finishing everything off.

Very happy with how it all came out in the end. Sorry, but I didn't get a chance to get it flow tested, but I'm fairly confident its a massive improvement on stock.





































Also match ported the intake manifold, the exhaust manifold & also the turbo exhaust housing.














































Then I decided to clean up the factory inlet casting on the turbo compressor housing, as it had just a rough inlet surface & then a step into the compressor wheel. So ported & blended it all out to a smooth finish. You can see the factory casting & step in the 2nd pic



















I also ran the hone down the cyl. bores to give them a skim & to say the least, they aren't in the best condition & you can clearly see in the pics the lips at the tops of the bores. It really does need a rebore, but that can wait for next time along with a set of pistons, larger valves etc.

I did try & rehone another stock GX block here, but that one was even worse. But the pistons out of the other one were in better condition than my one, so I gave them a clean out & knocked the stock rod studs out.





































So after all that was finished of, I set about cleaning everything up with a pressure cleaner & then onto reassembling the cyl. head incl. lapping in the valves, new valve stem seals etc



















Once this was all sorted I got onto prepping the block & cleaning out all the galleries etc.










Then installed the ARP Main Stud kit.










Intalled the crank & checked all the clearances incl. end float

1 - 0.0020" (0.050mm)
2 - 0.0020" (0.050mm)
3 - 0.0020" (0.050mm)
4 - 0.0015" (0.038mm)
5 - 0.0015" (0.038mm)
End Float - 0.005" (0.12mm)


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Awesome work dude! Can't wait for the Weekend after next. Should be awesome.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Are you going to run the Weber TB?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Svedka said:


> Are you going to run the Weber TB?


Yeah I will be refitting the Weber TB. I ran with this turbo setup for approx 30K without ever having any dramas. The intercooler piping & silicone piping are also been made & suited to the Weber TB too. ie. how far out it sits from the intake with the adapter plate.

My idea was that is has less vacuum ports than a stock mk1 or mk2 which means there are less places to have to block off or have potential boost leaks. Theres no o-ring for the idle adjustment. (another less place of potential boost leak) & I feel its alittle bit bigger overall & more suited for forced induction, as there is only one place for restriction being the throttle plate, bar. Instead of the stock VW twin plate, bar setup & also a centre bridge between them.

I could be wrong, but like I said. I've never had a problem with it.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well I only managed a half day of work in the shed, due to a sleep in & a hang over. (Normal kind of stuff!)

But still got a bit done.

Gapped up all the rings. I decided to go with the later style rings with a 1 piece Oil Ring












Setting up the ring height using an old piston to guarantee the same measurement in all the bores. I pushed the rings down with the piston till its gudgeon pin cut out was level with the block face.












All the gaps weren't too bad considering the condition of the bores

Cyl. 1 
Top - 0.26" (0.686mm) 
2nd - 0.26" (0.686mm)

Cyl. 2 
Top - 0.24" (0.610mm)
2nd - 0.24" (0.610mm)

Cyl. 3 
Top - 0.22" (0.559mm)
2nd - 0.24" (0.610mm)

Cyl. 4 
Top - 0.19" (0.483mm)
2nd - 0.18" (0.457mm)












Then got onto installing the ARP Rod Bolts, all the pistons, & checking all the clearances.

Cyl.1 - 0.0020" (0.050mm)
End Float - 0.008" (0.203mm)

Cyl.2 - 0.0020" (0.050mm)
End Float - 0.008" (0.203mm)

Cyl.3 - 0.0015" (0.038mm)
End Float - 0.007" (0.117mm)

Cyl.4 - 0.0015" (0.038mm)
End Float - 0.007" (0.177mm)

Then set about tightening up the rod bolts using a "Stretch Guage" to the recommended stretch of 0.0085" - 0.0090"











Installed the G60 headgasket & also the ARP Head Stud kit.











Fitted, clamped down the head & then got to work refitting as much as possible




















Then at the days end. Got most of the stuff fitted, but theres still some parts I want to repaint before I refit them. I also have to modify the wastegate actuator bracket as the compressor housing on this turbo is a fair bit bigger than the previous one.














Money shot!!! This is what its all about!!!


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Solid effort, dude! Love it.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

I ended up stripping the guts out of an old points style distributor & also grinding off the drive gear teeth to act as a oil pump primer.











Using my Multimeter set on resistance/continuity, I was able to measure when I got oil pressure through the oil pressure switch. When there is no oil pressure, there is a circuit to earth meaning the oil light is on, on the dash










Then I ran the drill up for a few seconds with the turbo oil drain disconnected to bleed the system.





















Full flow












Oil Pressure switch now open circuited, meaning there is sufficient oil pressure.











Installed the ARP Diff Bolt kit.





















A bit of home butchery. But it will do. There are 2 thick arse steel plates in there somewhere.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well had a late night last night when I came home from work. 5am start & was up till 1am getting this heap abit further along.

Anyway, got the engine off the stand, fitted up the Spec stage 5 clutch kit mated to a freshly machined flywheel & used all new bolts etc.





















All fitted up.










Then fitted up the gearbox & swung the whole lot into place using a crane dragging it up from the bottom. A ton easier than any other way I can think of.










The new turbo was a bit of a long shot if it was going to fit without having to modify some things, but it worked out 100%. the gearshift bracket I had to modify for the old turbo had just enough clearance on the new turbo.

Its still a bit of a tight fit, but you can't really see down there anyway.






























All the bracketry etc all freshly painted & the dump pipe modded with some extra bracing, as it had cracked over a period of time.








































By the end of today, I had everything fitted up & turned the engine over for it to fire into life straight away. All I wanted to do was hear it run before the weekend. 

But I did wind the idle screw up & richened up the mixtures for the first fire up, due to the increase in air the engine will be sucking.

So for no I just got it going to bleed the cooling system & burn off all the gasket goo, paint & the oil etc in the engine before I fit the wideband & start retuning it tomorrow.

Straight off the bat once I set the ignition timing & idle speed, the throttle response is 100% better than how it was before. Its ultra responsive now. "In a sarcastic way" I reckon the cyl. port job has alot to do with that! 

Haven't had a chance to drive it except for back into the shed & the clutch feels awesome for a brand new unbroken-in clutch. It does shudder a bit, but hopefully will bed-in. But it has a solid feel, good feedback.& an positive engagement. Feels just as heavy as my previous HD Sachs clutch kit.


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Amazing progress John! Cant believe how fast you had that thing apart and back together and running  Keep the updates coming! Now... I should get my butt off this chair and do something with my project :banghead: 

Cheers!:beer:


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

nice build get some vids of the turbo spooling. i have a spec stage 4 in my fox feels almost stock but chatters a little but not bad but holds the power great.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Thanks peoples.

I like to try & organize/think of everything I could possibly need to do the job & bang it out as fast as I can & just get it done. 

Hate having cars sitting around doing nothing & I've still got a couple here that have been sitting for along time.

Also this is my daily driver too & miss driving it. 

I did get a chance to drive it the last couple of days & all is well. 

Started off with 10psi to get to the servo to fill it with some fresh 98, then started winding it up. Got a pretty close handle on the tune & its set at 20psi at the moment which I'm sure after 60km its not breathing very hard out the breather now! I reckon the rings are now bed in! haha. 

Now just playing around with some ignition timing, as it feels like it could handle a couple of degrees more, I reckon cause its getting a better cyl. fill from larger ports etc.
But so far it all feels smooth. The turbo is laggy, but only a fraction more than before & comes in more smoother too. Not "a all or nothing" setup as with the old turbo. The turbo does wind up a bit harder & is a bit noisier too. But it can still light the tyres up at will & will squeal them in 3rd at 80 no worries. Its been raining here & feeding it on in top gear, it will build speed upto 110-120 & then blow the tyres off with ease.
Also with the recirc Tial BOV, its awesome. No more whoooossssh noise when taking off. Loving it now.

Steering is somewhat "interesting" with the locker too. Very hard when making tight corners, pulling into driveways etc. But its all good! haha

Now for the bad part....

I had a quick look under the car this arvo & found its leaking from the input shaft seal. So back out with the box & will hopefully get a new seal tomorrow.

Kind of pissed, as the gearbox was 100% before & decided to replace all the seals as a matter of course just to be on the safe side & it has bit me in the arse.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwturbofox said:


> nice build get some vids of the turbo spooling. i have a spec stage 4 in my fox feels almost stock but chatters a little but not bad but holds the power great.


I will get some vids once its all sorted & the clutch has bed-in correctly. 

I have tried the 2-step but it was only able to build 6psi with a 4800rpm pill, so I will need to look into something like a 5500+rpm pill to help wind it up.

I did order a "in car" camera too & can't wait to use it.


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## Brunke_Stunkelmyer (Sep 21, 2009)

Hey, Im enjoying your build, just wondering why you welded the diff.? :beer:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Brunke_Stunkelmyer said:


> Hey, Im enjoying your build, just wondering why you welded the diff.? :beer:


Cheers dude.

I decided to weld the diff, as the last time out I had some problems with one wheel breaking loose at the track. 
I also didn't want to spend $1000 on a LSD or torque bias diff with the high possibility of breaking the gearbox, as I have had my fair share of broken 020's. Also spending $400+ on a spooled centre for the same reason.

So the cheapest & quickest option was to weld it up. 

If the box breaks, I'm only up for a couple of gaskets & a set of ARP diff. bolts, which I can still reuse & not an expensive diff centre & gearbox rebuild.

If this breaks, I just move onto the next diesel 4spd & do the same again.



So far so good with the car. Been daily driving it with no major drama's going on & the clutch has bed in nicely. Although it is squealy & shudders, but I suppose thats all part of the deal with a drag style clutch.
I backed off the ignition timing a couple of degrees, as the weather over here has started to get hot coming into summer. But its a very safe tune, which not only lights the tyres up from 60-90, but also gets 400-420km to 35L.

Tested the 2 step today & the car was happy to do an easy 2nd gear, 60+m powerskid on the rev limiter.

Hopefully get back to the track by the end of the year depending on the bank balance.


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

did the new turbo make a huge difference.any problems with fuel in the upper rpms?


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

John Milner said:


> But its a very safe tune, which not only lights the tyres up from 60-90, but also gets 400-420km to 35L.


:laugh:
This thread is awesome. Great work. That's better fuel economy than I get stock. Translates to ~27mpg.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwturbofox said:


> did the new turbo make a huge difference.any problems with fuel in the upper rpms?


The turbo has made a big difference to the drivability of the car yes.

It is a tiny bit lazier, but also comes on alot smoother when it does, so it doesn't just hit 4K & blow the tyres off in 2nd. The car overall is a much nicer car to drive regarding the power etc. With the locked diff & drag clutch, it can piss you off in town & traffic jams though!

With the new setup it will hammer the old setup. Its running 4-5 clicks less on the boost controller (5-8psi?), a few more degrees ignition timing (static) & also roughly 1.2-1.3 degree's per psi timing pull on the boost retard & it pulls a fair bit harder. Especially when dropping it into 4th at 130!

At the moment, its pretty safe & anyone can drive it without having to worry about it pinging etc. For the track I could screw the mixtures up alittle bit more rich to idle around 11:1 A/F, add a couple of clicks of boost & pull a tiny bit of timing & it will thump the old setup. 

To answer you question about the tune. I have maxed out the fueling setup I currently have & still running less boost as before.


The only down side I've really found with the K-jet turbo setup is in gear roll on eg. 60 in 3rd, it will ping when loaded up (floor it & build boost), 100-110 roll on in 4th it will also ping. Too much load & can't pull enough timing out. The MSD is limited to 15 degrees timing pull max. But if you take off, plant it in 2nd & race through the gears, it has no drama's. I've found its all a trade off between all out race tune, or a safe streeter/daily tune, which anyone can drive without me worrying about it pinging.




ziddey said:


> :laugh:
> This thread is awesome. Great work. That's better fuel economy than I get stock. Translates to ~27mpg.



I've been both very surprised & pretty happy with how fuel efficient it has been. I done 395km over the last couple of days & thumped it hard the last day & put 32L in it.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well I finally got out & had some fun testing the new clutch, the 2-Step again & also my new in-car camera.

So I thank you for being patient while I gather some videos for those who are interested.

Anyone who has any tips or suggestions about video editing, please don't hesitate to offer advice. I'm new to this & have very limited computer skills. But had a bit of a play around to try & make it arty & alittle bit funny at the end too? haha

But here you go. 

2nd gear 2-Step launch/powerskid pedaling it down the road 60+m 

I did try it in 3rd, but it needs a much bigger rpm pill to help build boost.








2nd gear roll on







Power run. (I won't post the speed, but anyone who knows there way around a Mk1 speedo will know how fast it wraps around the speedo if you look closely enough. "km/h too!")


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## Brunke_Stunkelmyer (Sep 21, 2009)

diesel tranny FTW...


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

nice representing turbo cis. maybe its time for a full 3 ich exhaust or just an electric cut out that would help with turbo spool and make a bit more power?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwturbofox said:


> nice representing turbo cis. maybe its time for a full 3 ich exhaust or just an electric cut out that would help with turbo spool and make a bit more power?


Cheers dude.

As nice as a 3" exhaust would be, this is my daily driver & like it to be as quiet as possible & not all that interested in dumped pipes, side pipes, pipe cutouts etc. 

I fitted the MSD 2-Step to promote turbo spool for burnouts & launches. Thats what there designed for. But as this turbo is a bit laggier, I need a higher rpm pill than the current 4800rpm pill, to really get the turbo going. Something like a 5500+rpm pill should see it make 15psi on the line. But I'll race it how it is, as it may just be an advantage getting off the line with only 6-8psi, as I'm still running on street based tyres. Also with the current pill, it lights the tyres up easily in 2nd, so I'll just have to see how it all goes.
I'll take some rpm pills with me too, to have a play around.

I like the fact that its 100% street & don't have to change a thing to race it. Apart from fitting a stickier set of front tyres (slicks with the new engine in the build), as thats just the way it is with dragging a FWD. As doing all that other stuff like exhaust cutouts, dumped pipes etc., really requires retuning & I can't see the point, as the current fueling setup I have, with a couple more psi in it has the K-Jet system maxed out. Cause after all, when you on the street, you don't line up a run & call out "hey, just let me dump my pipe & fit some slicks!"

Also, alot of mates who have built/owned cars had 3" systems on there 4 cyl. & Rotarys, only to change back to a 2.5" because of noise. Maybe were getting a bit older & hate having noisey cars.

But if their cars can make upto 280+rwkw's on a 2.5" & I think "Vegeta Gti" with the 20vt Mk1 Jetta on vortex also has a 2.5" system & makes 400+whp. So for me going to a larger pipe isn't all that necessary. It does have a 3" dump pipe only due to the fact that, that the ATP wastegate came as a 3" V-Band.

But for now, I'll just have to save some coin to get it to the track.


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

i daily drive mine with 3inch and one muffler little loud but i like it . i just know a lot of people gained a lot from going 2.5 to 3inch. i would love to have you rabbit here in the states right hand drive


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## michaelnahodil (Apr 27, 2010)

what is this intake boot off of?!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

michaelnahodil said:


> what is this intake boot off of?!


Its a Volvo "Cobra head" K-Jet airflap intake boot I cut the tail off, as it was too long for my application.

I don't know what cars they came off, as I brought it from off a bloke on Vortex. But it would be a safe bet to say it came off a Volvo 240T.


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Indeed, they're from a volvo 240 turbo :thumbup: 

Great progress btw john! loved the videos  


-Jason


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## michaelnahodil (Apr 27, 2010)

that really is a perfect CIS turbo boot... i might have to find one somewhere...


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Just an update...

Since bedding in the engine with 20psi in less than 10mins, I changed the oil & have done approx 1500km of daily duties.

Since I replaced oil, it hasn't used a drop of oil or breathed anything out the breather filter & only a tiny bit of vapours in the catch can tubing.

The clutch has settled in & is spot on. It shudders a tiny bit, but not all the time. Just depends how you take off from lights etc. It rarely squeals now too.

I'm hoping if the weather holds up, I'll get it to the track on the 18th this month. Hopefully picking up a new tow car soon, so I'll be able to get to more events over the summer. If the car holds up.

Been practicing my staging & launching techniques, so hopefully I can get into the 1.8 60fts & run onto a 104-106mph pass. 

Low - flat 13's might be on the cards!!!!



After having a play with this setup for a while, I'd like to try a auto setup, test it & then make a start on the 20v setup I think.


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

sweet i wanna see you do high 12s that would be sick. Good luck at the track


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwturbofox said:


> sweet i wanna see you do high 12s that would be sick. Good luck at the track


That might be pushing it I reckon.

I'm realistic of a low 13 @ 103-106mph

Please remember this car is still a 100% street car with full weight, trim etc. 

I know if I strip all the un-necessary weight out of it, it should run into the 12's & with all the bumpers off, fiberglass panels etc., it could run as fast as a low-flat 12, as I've seen many stripped mk1 golfs & scirocco's run on vortex.

Don't get me wrong, as much as I'd love it to run a 12, I don't want to strip it to do it, as thats not I'm about.

I prefer real street cars, bar a set of tyres.

We'll just have to hold our breath's & wait to find out.


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## wolfhalen (Oct 13, 2010)

Awesome 

Great thread, and mad skills there John 

How much boost would you reckon a stock CIS would fuel? 

So besides turbo, IC, and piping, I would need the audi WUR and timing canister?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

wolfhalen said:


> Awesome
> 
> Great thread, and mad skills there John
> 
> ...


 Cheers wolfhalen. 

Every car is different, but if I were looking at a mild setup, I'd find a late model US spec 1.8L. 
Mine was from a US spec Mk2 which is a low compression "GX" engine. I think they were 8.5-9:1 which is perfect for a turbo setup. 

You'll definitely need a Audi or Volvo turbo WUR & also a timing canister. 

I ran 10psi on a stock Saab T3 .48A/R turbo, on a totally stock ignition. But my fuel setup was from a NA 2.2L Aust. delivered Volvo. We never got the turbo version out here. But with this setup I didn't need any extra injectors or fueling. 

But if you plan on running the bone stock fuel system you have, I'd maybe look at increasing the fuel pressure which is very easy to do & helps when tuning too. 

I reversed the Vac advance on the dizzy to run at full manifold vaccum (instead of ported like it should be), so when you sniffed on the throttle, it would pull the timing out straight away. It was crude, but it worked spot on for 10psi. It did have a tiny initial dead spot only cause of the timing being pulled from the get go. 

Once I tried to wind it above 10psi, I ran into not being able to pull enough ignition timing & then opted for the MSD 6BTM setup. Then with the ability to run more boost, meant more fuel was needed, hence the added extra injectors. 

Its a snowball effect! 

You think you'll be happy with how it runs with 10psi & then wonder how it will go with 15psi & so on! haha.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

John Milner said:


> After having a play with this setup for a while, I'd like to try a auto setup, test it & then make a start on the 20v setup I think.


 I love this part . 

Great thread! With a properly built auto, you'd have a BLAST!


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## wolfhalen (Oct 13, 2010)

Thanks for the advice! 

I'm not sure about the turbo at all, as I have the 010 automatic, I don't know how it will really take full advantage of boost. For instance I'm already in 3rd gear by 35-40 mph. I just think I would be through my gears by the time any boost would be avail. 

the auto sure has short gears. 


I can relate about the snowball effect, I have a very all-or-nothing personality. I would have trouble leaving it alone. If 8 psi worked why wouldn't 12 and so on..


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4516976-The-010-Lost-Knowledge-Thread 
Have you seen this?  

What about this... 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5067852-Heading-back-to-the-track 

The second one is a great motivator for 010 turbo setups...


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

B4S said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4516976-The-010-Lost-Knowledge-Thread
> Have you seen this?
> 
> What about this...
> ...


 Yeah, I've read & been following those threads. Especially yours B4S. 

I have spoken & sent a few emails back & forth to Jeff at Transaxle Engineering & it looks like he has a total package worked out for me. 
Its just a case of getting the $$$$ together & get it sent out here. 

I'm shooting for a 4000-4500 convertor. To suit this current engine & also the planned 20vt with a GT30R turbo. 



But for now, I missed out on racing the car again this year due to a poor weather forecast coming up. 

I'll probably loose a bit of interest in this car over xmas & the new year, apart from daily duties, as I just brought myself a new daily driver/tow car. 
LS2 6L powered ute. Its just off having a bit of an engine/driveline upgrade as I write this. I've been informed it should make approx 300-330rwkws & run an easy mid 11 on MT street radials. We'll see. 

Tow car thumps the Golf on the trailer its towing. I suppose if I go to a VW event & someone is faster than my budget build banger & starts the smack talk, I'll unhitch the tow car & thump them in full street trim! haha Then tow my Golf home.


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Excellent stuff dude. Just caught up on the latest. Reading all the little bits you didn't tell me.

Should be fun to race this thing in Feb, man. Can't wait.


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

Preen59 said:


> Excellent stuff dude. Just caught up on the latest. Reading all the little bits you didn't tell me.
> 
> Should be fun to race this thing in Feb, man. Can't wait.


Look at us lurkers! :laugh:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well I picked up my tow car today after it having a bit of a tickle up.

Made alright power for a streeter. I should of really gone with the next size up cam, but it will do for now.

I was told if it was a manual it would of made approx 335rwkws, but as its a auto with a 3800 convertor, it made 313rwkws. Good enough I suppose.

Sounds angry enough & gets plenty of looks when you pull up at traffic lights etc.

I'm hoping the weather holds off so I can race it on Boxing day.

Got the Mickey T ET street radials fitted up on some steelie's today & I'm hoping to track down a set of Koni reds for the rear to stop axle tramp before the weekend


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

You have to put up at least one video of this you tease! :thumbup:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mikinoz said:


> You have to put up at least one video of this you tease! :thumbup:


will hopefully have a video if the weather is good on Boxing Day. 

Planning on heading upto heathcote to race the new tow car. Drive there, bolt on some MT ET street radials & race it. Drive home.

I'd like to finish off all the little bits & pieces before any pics are posted. Only just got around to finally washing it after owning it for 2 weeks. Its filthy!!!!! Still haven't done the interior yet either.

I don't think there'd be many VW'ers who would be interested in it, cause its from a very well hated product by VW standards, so I'm better off keeping it to myself.

More than half the cost of a R36, a tiny bit worse fuel consumption, 100% more reliable & making 200+ more hp!!! mmmmm. why do people continue waisting $$$$ on new VW's to go fast? & still cheaper than a 2nd hand mk5-6 GTI! haha

Oh!! The sound is awesome & I can actually use it & throw crap in it!!!!


It doesn't look like this now!!! but still NA.


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## Brunke_Stunkelmyer (Sep 21, 2009)

John Milner said:


> will hopefully have a video if the weather is good on Boxing Day.
> 
> Planning on heading upto heathcote to race the new tow car. Drive there, bolt on some MT ET street radials & race it. Drive home.
> 
> ...


Because new vw's look cool... Is that the new GTO?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Brunke_Stunkelmyer said:


> Because new vw's look cool... Is that the new GTO?


Only cool to some.

I work on them for a living & they are as boring as a wet week.

My 76er will thump a new Golf R!. There is no excitement (electricity) driving new VW's at all sorry.

Give me this any day of the week.

Its not a new GTO sorry, its the ute version.

Finally finished giving it a clean bar a polish & treating the leather. I still have a new drivers seat bolster to fit too.


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

Nothing to hate in an Aussie V8 ute! :thumbup:

I agree for fast, the $ you spend on Audi/VW are high compared to other makes - but thats what make us all different!

Post 1/4's please


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mikinoz said:


> Nothing to hate in an Aussie V8 ute! :thumbup:
> 
> I agree for fast, the $ you spend on Audi/VW are high compared to other makes - but thats what make us all different!
> 
> Post 1/4's please


You not wrong about high $$$$ to mod a VW.

Didn't the local APR agent throw $30K into a Mk5 GTI to run a 12.9 @ 110 something MPH?

Or another bloke drop nearly $20K on his Mk5 GTI to run a [email protected]

For that coin you could have your full LS powered street car family sedan running 10's, possibly 9's!! Or one hell of a street/track car.

Far out! Its not looking too good! haha. 

I reckon you could of built my Mk1 3 times over for $20K & it has the potential to run a low 13 - high 12 with the right setup in full street trim too. Not stripped out or running full slicks.

We'll find out one day soon.

Will post up how it goes Mik too.

The only thing holding my ute back will be how low it is, as it upsets the camber heaps which leads a very small tyre contact patch & also bad axle tramp.

I should really raise it back up with the stock FE2 setup & get the full tyre width planted.


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

yes the new vws are super heavy. dude this car or truck is sick i wish they had these in the states i would buy one.


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## Brunke_Stunkelmyer (Sep 21, 2009)

John Milner said:


> Only cool to some.
> 
> I work on them for a living & they are as boring as a wet week.
> 
> ...


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Nice work dude.

Ute looks good. And the times you messaged me are not bad either! ..... But i'll let you post them up.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Preen59 said:


> Nice work dude.
> 
> Ute looks good. And the times you messaged me are not bad either! ..... But i'll let you post them up.


haha. Cheers dude

A couple of pics from the Heathcote Boxing Day Challenge

The weather wasn't all the best for racing, so the times sucked, but it still felt good to get out there & give it a run.

Drive there & drive home is a good feeling too with a 5hr round trip!!!


Was 33°C with a headwind upto 20km/h down the strip.

Got 4 runs in & it ran 3 consistent [email protected]

PB [email protected] 1.82 60ft

Didn't feel like racing it anymore, as it wasn't going to go any faster in the crappy conditions.

Will have to wait for some more ideal weather conditions. Hopefully the high 11 is achievable. But then again. I don't mind. Its my every day driver.



Will get some quick vids up soon. Also have an in-car vid too.


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

Niice!

I am wondering what my 16v is going to get when I take it to WSID early new year - excited but know it won't be blazing! opcorn:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mikinoz said:


> Niice!
> 
> I am wondering what my 16v is going to get when I take it to WSID early new year - excited but know it won't be blazing! opcorn:


Without having feel how it goes etc, I'd have to go off a stock mk2 16v of about a low 15 @ approx 85-90mph.

I know of another 16v mk1 but that was a 2L that ran a mid 14 @ roughly 92mph. Not sure how much weight was removed either.

But........

Bring it down to Portland & race in Feb along with the QLD crew.

If my mk1 holds up during some test & tunes in Jan, I'll be there for sure.


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

I'd love to come down, but the reality does not give me that much time! 

I was going tomorrow but it is due to rain so we postponed until next week - fingers crossed.


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

I've still not got a quarter time.

Hows tricks?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

G'day Mik.

Not much has been going. 

Everytime I've planned on racing it, its been raining non stop!!!!!!!!!

Was really hoping to get a test & tune in before Portland to test & dial in the new setup, but looks like I'll be taking it down & holding my breath that its close enough.

Other than that & work, not much.

Not heading to SEDF, but friend twisted my arm & is taking it. I

'm heading down to a local weekend Hotrod run! (something I actually like!)

So fitted up a set of new tyres & wound it down another 55mm front & rear! Basically on the bump stops at the front with the RH driveshaft sitting on the chassis rail!

Car unloads the tyres pretty easy now! Even with the boost turned waaaayyy down!










Won't be racing it like this at all. Will set it up how it was for that.

Hows tricks????


----------



## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

love the rims the car looks sweet


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

How was the rod run? When is Portland?

Things are going ok. But I snapped my accelerator cable the other day and am about to drop it off this week to have the idler and cam pulleys replaced, engine mounts and a new cable fitted - along with a CV boot for good measure.

Once the adjustable cam gear is on I'll get it tuned.

I'm thinking I'll hold off on trying to get a 1/4 time until that all is sorted.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mikinoz said:


> How was the rod run? When is Portland?
> 
> Things are going ok. But I snapped my accelerator cable the other day and am about to drop it off this week to have the idler and cam pulleys replaced, engine mounts and a new cable fitted - along with a CV boot for good measure.
> 
> ...


Queenscliff rod run was bloody awesome!!!! & that's a major understatement!

Even a couple of friends who came over from Tassie couldn't believe that this kind of thing goes on & especially after I said that there is some kind of car event/show going on nearly every weekend throughout summer.

The rodders were cruising the streets basically all afternoon, right through to late into the night.

They didn't even let the heavy down pour of rain worry them! Plenty of 6 figure cars cruising in the rain without roofs! Thats hardcore!

More than I can say for a couple of people who pulled out of SEDF cause of the threat of rain & didn't want to get there VW's wet!! Weak as piss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Portland is in a couple of weeks. 18-20th of Feb. 

Kind of spewing I'm not going to get a chance to test the new setup, but these things happen. I'll probably just drive it around over the next couple of weeks & have a bit more of a play with the tuning.

Heres a couple of pics from Preen59 from the Sat. night Rod Run & one of the mk1 from SEDF.











Also managed to get my friend to take the interstater's for cruise around in his 51 Buick he finished recently. Cool as.





















I don't actually mind how it looks, but the ride quality is far from great!!!!

But if I can't sell these wheels, I'll definitely consider a set of rear drop plates & front strut extensions!!












I did see you had a bit of drama with the throttle cable, but at least you were able to jimmy something up for the time being. Thats the best part about those cars. You can just about anything to keep them going.
Look forward to the parts & tune results. 

I'm still tipping a low 15 - high 14 I reckon at 85-90mph for you!


----------



## IH8 (Aug 26, 2009)

Looks great that low on the tiny tires dude!


----------



## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

Hey Tim, I thought you'd like to know that there was a bit of action today, the pulleys went in along with a CV boot and the mount. 

Cam gear is now set at 5 degrees advanced and by oath it makes a difference - little sucker has heaps more punch from standing start and the power is much more useful in the lower rev range and this makes it easier to shift earlier into a higher gear and increase overall speed, where I used to get stuck high up in the rev band in a lower gear before.

FANTASTIC - so happy.

I'd almost say that is it for me and engine performance mods.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mikinoz said:


> Hey Tim, I thought you'd like to know that there was a bit of action today, the pulleys went in along with a CV boot and the mount.
> 
> Cam gear is now set at 5 degrees advanced and by oath it makes a difference - little sucker has heaps more punch from standing start and the power is much more useful in the lower rev range and this makes it easier to shift earlier into a higher gear and increase overall speed, where I used to get stuck high up in the rev band in a lower gear before.
> 
> ...



All sounds good Mik.

I remember when I first got my vernier cam pulley & tried it out. Was awesome the difference it made between advancing & retarding the cam timing. 

Good experience in also understanding cam timing & how you can get the most out of it.

I dare say that saying "that is it for me and engine performance mods". You'll change your mind! hahahaah.

Its only a matter of time!


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

John Milner said:


> All sounds good Mik.
> 
> I remember when I first got my vernier cam pulley & tried it out. Was awesome the difference it made between advancing & retarding the cam timing.
> 
> ...


Thanks Tim, all I need is more encouragement.

I am excited Portland is so close - looking forward to the report, pics and your numbers. :thumbup:


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

mikinoz said:


> Thanks Tim, all I need is more encouragement.
> 
> I am excited Portland is so close - looking forward to the report, pics and your numbers. :thumbup:


Bump for the numbers! :beer:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mikinoz said:


> Bump for the numbers! :beer:


Just a quick update

Car ran awesome all weekend & coped a hiding the entire time! Got my money's worth out of the 3-step module, drag clutch & locked diff.

I think I got the most runs in out of all the VW's entered with approx 17 pass', fastest watercooled ET, 2nd fastest MPH, won all the elimination rounds & then red lit in the final!!!! DOH!!!

Pre-loaded the clutch a tad too much, it got hot & bit & resulted in a red light!


But.....

Previous best 1/4 half track time was [email protected] 2.223 60ft with the old T3 setup only after 3 test runs.


It ran [email protected], 1.85 60ft in full street trim & weight!!! Best MPH for the weekend was 88MPH.

The only adjustments we made throughout the weekend were suspension tweaks & tire pressures. 

We did remove all the seats etc. but it went slower! 

Its running very consistent now & ran 5 8.4 pass' & several 1.9 60fts.

Very happy with a .8 & 6mph increase over the old setup over the 1/8th. Hopefully this results in a [email protected] approx 105-107mph over the 1/4 in full street trim/weight.


Will get some pics up later this week.


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

wow good job and keep up the good work 1.9 60 ft :thumbup:. I got my big 50 trim done and runs like a wild animal at 15 psi still tuning and tweaking to get it just right. tracks will open soon here then some track times .


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwturbofox said:


> wow good job and keep up the good work 1.9 60 ft :thumbup:. I got my big 50 trim done and runs like a wild animal at 15 psi still tuning and tweaking to get it just right. tracks will open soon here then some track times .


Cheers dude.

Best 60ft was 1.85 with street tyres! Pretty happy with the setup/tune so far. Didn't touch the boost, timing, fueling all weekend!


Glad to hear your still moving forward with your setup! Really looking forward to hearing of your results too! Keep us up to date.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Some pics from the weekend.

There are plenty more, but can't really be stuffed uploading 200+ pics sorry

Heres one of the 2 in-car vid's that were taken. The camera battery went flat, cause I forgot to turn it off after a run! DOH!!!!!
































































LHR spring perch decided to pick something up in the threads & lock up severely!!! not good, so the last resort was to pull out the biggest multi-grips I had in my toolbox!

Sometimes you just have to get it done, no matter what happens. We'd already set the other side up, so I had to even up the ride height!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well I finally got a chance to run at a full track after the local track had been washed out for a couple of months & tonight didn't disappoint one bit.

Managed to get 4 runs in, which for the amount of people that turn up, its pretty bloody good.

Car is still full weight/trim with street tyres & the only mods from my daily driver setup is a VW Motorsport rear trans mount, a couple of bump & rebound adjustments to the shocks & tyre pressures. No ride height changes.

Anyway they went like this

[email protected] 2.12 60ft ([email protected] 1/8th which is miles off the cars best of [email protected])

[email protected] 2.12 60ft


and.......



*[email protected] 1.96 60ft* ([email protected] 1/8th)



Very happy with this run, as my prediction was a [email protected] in a previous post.



4th run was go for broke and...

It launched hard off the 2-step, shook the tyres & smashed the RH outer CV joint.

Doesn't matter though. the car is running awesome & having a stock drivetrain handling 20+pass', plus the huge amount of street abuse, powerskids, clutch dumps off the 2-step in 2nd gear, I was expecting it to break sooner or later.

But for now, I'll replace the CV & head back out again for the 12....
































13.00 pass. Sorry, it was off my phone taken by a mate. & it doesn't have zoom. I really should of taken a camera with me, as I knew it was going to be a good night.







13.2 Pass






Going for broke


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Well done, Timmy Two-step!

That 12 will come, mate. For sure! 




IH8 said:


> Looks great that low on the tiny tires dude!



... Yeah, but I got airbourne on the freeway and It wasn't so great on my back! haha. 


Here's something I knocked up tonight..


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Cheers dude. Looks cool as ^^^^^


Anyway on to some repairs. 

My first thought was it shattered a CV, but after actually looking at it, instead of just hearing it, It appears to be a different story.

It ended up snapping the driveshaft. Clean as a whistle too!!!!!







































New shaft fitted & with the old cv's repacked with some cv moly grease. 

Change the rear trans mount over to the stock diesel one & the front tyres

Quick wash & its back on the road for the daily 600km grind for work.


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

Thats pretty amazing sheer there. Following this and liking what you've managed to do mate, 13.002 is SO close to the 12 mark it must be painful.

Keep at it, love that you turn around and daily it too!


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## Rabbitissimo (Dec 21, 2009)

Just finished reading about your adventures in Oz Dubness. Love your thread!
Vintage VW with CIS, turbo to sweeten the deal. I hope you break through to 12!
I also have found certain technical aspects of these vehicles to be a big secret. 
Hard to find information, considering how many people have done it and won it.
It is important with so many tuning issues to share the knowledge to help heal the smoky & oily.
I found your thread informative and compelling. Thanks!

12! 12! 12! 12! 12! 12! 12! 12! 12! 12! 12! 12! 12! 12!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Rabbitissimo said:


> Just finished reading about your adventures in Oz Dubness. Love your thread!
> Vintage VW with CIS, turbo to sweeten the deal. I hope you break through to 12!
> I also have found certain technical aspects of these vehicles to be a big secret.
> Hard to find information, considering how many people have done it and won it.
> ...


Cheers dude.

Really appreciate it.

I still don't really understand why people continue to keep info to themselves. 

Although on the other hand I do understand why tuners both old skool & new EFI skool keep stuff to themselves, as thats what makes them better than the rest & also the guys racing in certain class' where they are restricted to what they can & can't run.


But for this kind of stuff, its pointless. Its VW's, not F1 & its old as the hill K-Jet which very few use it, few know how it works, alot chuck it along with the opinion "you can never get it to work"


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

John Milner said:


> Cheers dude.
> 
> Really appreciate it.
> 
> ...


Pretty wise words. 

In Australia it's been hard for me to find people that have a clue that are not spinning you crap. I'm no dickhead and I'm willing to learn for myself but you get to a point that relying on people with basic knowledge does not cut it and you need advice from people with a real skill with the dub. 

I like seeing what your up to mate and think you do well to deliver and transfer knowledge without being aloof. I appreciate it.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mikinoz said:


> Pretty wise words.
> 
> In Australia it's been hard for me to find people that have a clue that are not spinning you crap. I'm no dickhead and I'm willing to learn for myself but you get to a point that relying on people with basic knowledge does not cut it and you need advice from people with a real skill with the dub.
> 
> I like seeing what your up to mate and think you do well to deliver and transfer knowledge without being aloof. I appreciate it.



Cheers dude.

This car & this engine setup is far from finished just yet, so they'll be abit more stuff going on soon enough.

But once the goal is achieved, I'll move onto the auto conversion which will be the next challenge.

Hopefully I'll get all this done before the ol 76er rusts away for good!!!!!


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## Rabbitissimo (Dec 21, 2009)

Oh and if you see my bro Sir Kevs A Lot in Bondi, say hello to him for me!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Rabbitissimo said:


> Oh and if you see my bro Sir Kevs A Lot in Bondi, say hello to him for me!


haha. 

Australia is a pretty big place!!

I'm a good 12 hours away from Bondi


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

A couple of pics from the last street meet.

Note the people laughing!!! you have no choice but to get used to it.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

Just read the whole thread. 3 hours well spent. Your Vauxhaul or however you call it is sick also. When I saw those for the first time on top gear I went nuts. The blower on those sounds soooo good. 

anyways keep it up buddy.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

g3mccotter said:


> Just read the whole thread. 3 hours well spent. Your Vauxhaul or however you call it is sick also. When I saw those for the first time on top gear I went nuts. The blower on those sounds soooo good.
> 
> anyways keep it up buddy.


 hahahahaha 

Cheers dude. 

Yeah the ute is a 2006 Holden VZ SS serie 2 ute. The series 2 came with the L76 6L V8 & the real late ones could also be had with the later & better L98 6L. 

Unfortunately these didn't come with a supercharger. They were all normally aspirated. But alot of local companys like Harrop & Walkinshaw along with a ton of other aftermarket mobs both local & international do both supercharger, single turbo & twin turbo kits. 

I was looking originally looking at a local single turbo kit which on pump fuel & 10psi on a bone stock engine bar a tune obviously would net 410rwkws. On E85 & 15psi it would have made 460rwwks. But I opted for the cam, stall, gears & tune setup for the grumpy sound & it worked out cheaper. 

But even now the auto has started to cry enough & will require a rebuild & major upgrade once it comes out. 

Cheers again


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well I know its April fools day, but this is no lie.

Woke up this morning, looked outside & sure enough, it was "drag racing" weather!!!!

Headed upto the track early & there was bugger all people there & was lucky enough to get in 3 hot laps! No waiting!!! Couldn't believe my luck!!

Anyway, straight off the trailer

[email protected] - 2.04 60ft, [email protected] Waaay off the normal 60ft & half track pace.



Then!!!!!!




*[email protected] *- 2.06 60ft, [email protected] Still off the 60ft & half track pace, but finally ran a full street trimmed & weight *12!!!!*

Last run I launched hard & mashed it & at half track started smoking like all buggery.

Didn't get a time slip due to below, but I looked up & still ran a smoking 13.1! haha

anyway, I broke it!

Stock pistons & rods with K-Jet can only take sooo much abuse.

Oiled down most of the track & made a mess everywhere! Oil was pumping out the breather like it was going out of fashion!

I dare say, its melted a piston & broke a few rings to pump out that much oil! It still runs 100% & drove it onto the trailer etc. But its now taken up smoking!!!












Where to next after this. I don't know. I've accomplished what I set out to do & now at the cross roads with not only this car, as its soooo bloody rusty its not funny & not worth the time & effort to fix, but also racing VW's in general! Can't be stuffed building another car to replace it. 

I suppose we'll see what we'll see.


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Congrats, dude! Well done.


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

sweet 12s:beer::beer:what psi were you at?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwturbofox said:


> sweet 12s:beer::beer:what psi were you at?


Cheers fella's!!!!


Fox, sorry dude l have no idea what boost it was on. I don't run a gauge, so l do it by feel. All l can tell you is l know its over 13psi, as that's what the extra injectors are fired at. Haha

I wound it's up 2 notches from how l run it on the mild street tune for the 600km daily commute. I could run it like this, but its a bit much on the street with a locked diff & 165's tyres. Also abit wild if someone else drives the car too that's not familiar with it. With this boost setup, it could do 3rd gear powerskids not even using the 2-step. On the 2-step, you could pdeal it & it could paint a set of lines the best part of 100m no handbrake either!

But l'd say at a guess, its probably nudging approx 18-22psi.


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

John Milner said:


> Cheers fella's!!!!
> 
> 
> Fox, sorry dude l have no idea what boost it was on. I don't run a gauge, so l do it by feel. All l can tell you is l know its over 13psi, as that's what the extra injectors are fired at. Haha
> ...


Thats crazy if you melted the piston must be the air/fuel was lean and boom but now looks like you will move onto your 20v swap?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwturbofox said:


> Thats crazy if you melted the piston must be the air/fuel was lean and boom but now looks like you will move onto your 20v swap?


l wouldn't really say it was lean, cause l've never had a problem with it with the new setup. I'd say its more that stock 400k pistons can only handle sooo much abuse.

If it was lean, it would of nosed over in the top end, but it felt strong as & ran its best mph too. No pinging etc.

Not sure what to do now. Might just chuck it in for a while. Done what l set out to do.

Its all a case of $$$$ now, with 3 cars that have to be built (GTI, another car to replace this rusty POS, the 20v & auto build, the chev truck), rebuild the ute auto & do house upgrades & maintenance.

Just too.much really!


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

John Milner said:


> l wouldn't really say it was lean, cause l've never had a problem with it with the new setup. I'd say its more that stock 400k pistons can only handle sooo much abuse.
> 
> If it was lean, it would of nosed over in the top end, but it felt strong as & ran its best mph too. No pinging etc.
> 
> ...


Very true lot of miles on stock pistons.I guess now its my turn to run 12s I know i can get mph than 106 just need to get mine all back together with the new cam,P&P,more boost :laugh: well good luck with all your other projects:beer::beer:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwturbofox said:


> Very true lot of miles on stock pistons.I guess now its my turn to run 12s I know i can get mph than 106 just need to get mine all back together with the new cam,P&P,more boost :laugh: well good luck with all your other projects:beer::beer:


Awesome dude!!!!

Really looking forward to seeing another K-Jet street car into the 12's!!!

I know if I had of been able to launch on my PB 1.8 60ft, the car would of run onto a 12.5-12.6! But it just wasn't to be.

Doesn't matter.


Some more carnage pics.

It still runs & runs smooth as, but just pumps out vapour from the catch can! haha










and its final resting place before it gets stripped down & parted out I reckon


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

For the lovers of time slips!!!!


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

Thats awesome man! Good for you. Not a better way to end that cars life. I wanna see that ute run 10s now. With 10 bails of hay in the back


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

g3mccotter said:


> Thats awesome man! Good for you. Not a better way to end that cars life. I wanna see that ute run 10s now. With 10 bails of hay in the back


theres NO REASON to end that beautiful cars life..


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

I agree completely. But there isn't a better way to do it if you were going to, PNW. I am not expressing my opinion here which you seem to love to do I am simply encouraging a fellow VW owner on his accomplishments.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Glegor said:


> theres NO REASON to end that beautiful cars life..


Its not all that good dude.

If you seen the car in real life, you probably wouldn't drive it.

Rust is everywhere & terminal, from the footwells, wheel wells, all the pillars, all the hanging panels, the front panel & rain tray are like swiss cheese!

Hence the reason, not to continue with it. Rego is due next month too. Just not worth it.


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

Congrats on the time. 

Condolences on the letting go. 

Packing it all up and parting it out will give you the headspace for new pursuits, you've been doing this for a while and a break is always good for the soul. 

Always sad to see the end of a mk1 though.


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## anlxn (Oct 18, 2009)

*here is another MK1 cis turbo*

this is mine I have had it a while now the previous owner was my cousin he owned it since 1989 and we built it together now I own and cuoldnt let it go ..........It needed some work since It sat in a barn for 13 years but it all runs fine now


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Thats is one very interesting setup from the wastegate to the individual throttles by the looks of it!

How does it go, performance wise?


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## deathhare. (Apr 1, 2008)

anlxn said:


> this is mine I have had it a while now the previous owner was my cousin he owned it since 1989 and we built it together now I own and cuoldnt let it go ..........It needed some work since It sat in a barn for 13 years but it all runs fine now


Cool stuff.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

deathhare. said:


> Cool stuff.


:thumbup::thumbup: That is very unique.


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## Water Boy (Dec 14, 2007)

Well done Timmy!


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## anlxn (Oct 18, 2009)

It was hard to say the car sat so long with water in the fuel tank that I rep[laced the tank,fuelpump,dissassembled the cis and cleaned it "all"up then I couldnt get it to run right It would miss on 2,4 cyls under load.....drove nuts I swapped out the Intake with a stock unit to rule out that








so It turns out the problem was the Injecter lines.
So in the near future I will Reinstall the ITB setup but not before I do a baseline run:thumbup:


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

anlxn said:


> It was hard to say the car sat so long with water in the fuel tank that I rep[laced the tank,fuelpump,dissassembled the cis and cleaned it "all"up then I couldnt get it to run right It would miss on 2,4 cyls under load.....drove nuts I swapped out the Intake with a stock unit to rule out that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like ITB on cis thats a first for me what throttle bodys did you use etc i want to know more.Also you want to sell your moroso valve cover?


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## anlxn (Oct 18, 2009)

well "turbofox"the ITBs are Alfa Romeo early '80s
as for the valve cover I cant bring myself to sell it yet.20 years ago I had 4 of these they were sold as wall clocks:thumbup:Rapid parts use to sell one that was simalar
I would be glad to answer any question ya got:thumbup:


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## konakle (Feb 8, 2010)

Hey john. What was the final outcome with the audi wur. I'm in the same boat i think with it running rich at idle. What was the final way you hooked it up.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

konakle said:


> Hey john. What was the final outcome with the audi wur. I'm in the same boat i think with it running rich at idle. What was the final way you hooked it up.


G'day konakle.

I had a play around with a air compressor wound down to 10psi & applied pressure to all the ports to find which one reduces the control pressure (richens the mixture!) using a home built K-Jet fuel pressure guage setup out of an old Autometer gauge

This ended up being the big port *"without"* the barbs.

The photo below is with the Vacuum/boost hose from the intake connected to the "barbed" brass fitting on the WUR. I found this isn't right for this application!!!
note - the vent breather in front of it!!!














This is how I forced the hose over the smooth large vent port! This is what made it richen up under boosted applications!













Hope this helps & let us know how you go!


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## konakle (Feb 8, 2010)

Got it figured out. The connection on the AF gauge wasn't right. Fixed it and it idles between slight lean and stoich. Driving normal its at stoich and when you punch it it goes to second to last bar of the rich side. Thanks.


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## anlxn (Oct 18, 2009)

hey john You could flip that wur around and it makes it easier to install the vacum lines


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

John Milner said:


> Its not all that good dude.
> 
> If you seen the car in real life, you probably wouldn't drive it.
> 
> ...


He's not joking! I've been underneath it. It's completely RS. Which sucks, because it's such at awesome car!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

anlxn said:


> hey john You could flip that wur around and it makes it easier to install the vacum lines


Yeah I had thought of that, but from memory, the reg didn't clear the oil filter & housing when flipped upside down as I run a diesel oil filter, as its a much larger capacity which always helps & also cause it acts like a big heat sink out the front of the motor. The last style filter I ran is a T4 filter which is even bigger again!

I also didn't really want to run the hose right over the top or around the back side of the reg, especially with all the heat coming off the block, but as it didn't fit anyway, it didn't matter


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Preen59 said:


> He's not joking! I've been underneath it. It's completely RS. Which sucks, because it's such at awesome car!


Rub it in why don't you!!!!!!!! I know its junk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bahahahahahahahaha


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## anlxn (Oct 18, 2009)

John Milner said:


> Yeah I had thought of that, but from memory, the reg didn't clear the oil filter & housing when flipped upside down as I run a diesel oil filter, as its a much larger capacity which always helps & also cause it acts like a big heat sink out the front of the motor. The last style filter I ran is a T4 filter which is even bigger again!
> 
> I also didn't really want to run the hose right over the top or around the back side of the reg, especially with all the heat coming off the block, but as it didn't fit anyway, it didn't matter


I see. 
i will post pics of my set up for oil its dual filters:thumbup:


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

anlxn said:


> I see.
> i will post pics of my set up for oil its dual filters:thumbup:


Cool i want to see pics also does your car have a rag top


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## anlxn (Oct 18, 2009)

vwturbofox said:


> Cool i want to see pics also does your car have a rag top


ragtop is out of a renault fuego and its power slide:thumbup:


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## Rabbitissimo (Dec 21, 2009)

So sorry to hear about your car.
We were all hoping you would make 12, and you did it...

I didn't want the car to die, though. 

A new shell would love your setup, the way you have it dialed.
If you swap it all out, could you rebuild this?
I would love to know what actually happened inside the engine, are the rods OK?
Crankshaft? Did melting pistons gouge the walls? 
The bearings? How do the bearings look?










Rest In Pieces

Good luck with what is to come...


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Rabbitissimo said:


> So sorry to hear about your car.
> We were all hoping you would make 12, and you did it...
> 
> I didn't want the car to die, though.
> ...


Well I wanted to see how far a stock old banger engine could last & how far it could be pushed. I knew it would lunch itself, it was just a case of when.

I do have a plan b if this doesn't sell after a few months & I will reshell it, along with build a proper 8v with proper machine work, good pistons, rods, larger valves & guides replaced & blend in the port bowls to suit.

I'll still leave it on K-jet for the time being & I reckon it can run consistent mid 12's with a proper "strong" engine.

Then maybe switch over to standalone & a low 12 - high 11 isn't out of the question.

If this is all the case, yes it will be documented on here & see how far a mild 8v turbo setup can go in full street trim, bar front tyres of course!!!

But for now, it rests in the quietness of the backyard waiting for a new owner.


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## deathhare. (Apr 1, 2008)

That funny looking sun visor couldnt have been helping the 1/4 mile times.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

deathhare. said:


> That funny looking sun visor couldnt have been helping the 1/4 mile times.


You'd be right in saying that too! 

But its a street car. Race it as you drive it. 

Plus its an absolute pain in the arse to remove it! Pop Riveted in & also stretched on.



So even if I did remove it to race, I'd just have to go through all the crap refitting it!

Couldn't be stuffed!!!



Remember even without the sunvisor, the car is still aerodynamically challenged! It will always be shaped like a biscuit tin!!!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well I thought I'd go out & move the car as its been sitting for awhile & blocking the shed.


It fired up straight away & ran smooth as.

After about 5 mins of idling, the catch can began to puff like a steam train as expected! haha, but while it was idling, I had a quick look over everything & I found that the warm-up reg boost signal hose has split in half!!!!! 


mmmmmmmmmm, $1 piece of hose caused the meltdown it. I hate when that happens.

I know why, as the warm-up reg port barb was jammed hard up against the oil filter housing which also jams the hose against it. 

Over a period of time & multiple hot/cold operations, I dare say it got hard & finally cracked under positive pressure ie BOOST!


But life goes on &......

The car has been for sale for ages out here now & no one has any interest in it, which sucks, as I've got a car here I can't sell & its cheap as all buggery considering all the awesome gear in it too!

Plus all the development/time put into it to make it an awesome package which you can use everyday, get great fuel economy & also be able to run 12's! But in safe mode, could still run a low 13.


So it looks like people are going to miss out on one hell of a cheap & awesome car, cause they can't look past the fact they have to buy a car & then spend very little money on it to get it running again!

Which you could just fit a good stock bottom end, swap over all the ARP hardware & run a conservative tune, get your good economy & low 13 street car!



IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

John Milner said:


> Well I thought I'd go out & move the car as its been sitting for awhile & blocking the shed.
> 
> 
> It fired up straight away & ran smooth as.
> ...


 If the shipping didn't cost so much i would buy it for sure.But good luck on selling the little beast :beer::beer:


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## mk1vDUBtec (Aug 12, 2009)

I know this thread is a month old, but I just wanna say that I read through the whole thing (well, skimmed) and this is awesome :thumbup:
So sorry to hear that you're selling it.
12's are veryyy impressive for an 8v 

I LOVE the front sun visor/bonnet...
Where would I get one/ Would you be willing to sell it to me? :beer:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mk1vDUBtec said:


> I know this thread is a month old, but I just wanna say that I read through the whole thing (well, skimmed) and this is awesome :thumbup:
> So sorry to hear that you're selling it.
> 12's are veryyy impressive for an 8v
> 
> ...


Cheers dude

I had it for sale & there was no interest in it at all! 

So I've got another banger engine here, I'll fit some rings, bearings & the ARP hardware, new gasket kit too & race it. 

Will also sort out the split hose too. 

So if it ran a 12.99 lean as buggery melting the piston & still with a crappy 60ft, it should go faster with the hose fixed/tune right.

So time will tell.

Idiots could of had a 12 sec car for SFA with only a tiny oultay to get it going again.

So I'll do it myself!


The sunvisor is off a locally produced (totally different car brand) car here in Australia in 70's. They are pretty rare to come across too unfortunately.


But sorry, I won't be selling it. (the visor I mean)


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

No work has gone on lately, as I've got another project I've got to finish first here to get some much required shed space back.

But I did get a package today which brought a smile to my dial!!!

Transaxles finest!!!! Bring on the auto build sometime soon!!!


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well the car has sat untouched now since April 1st & has been a thorn in my side taking up space & normally getting in the way around home. 

So I decided after I'd finished a few other major jobs I've had on the go & some upkeep around the house,I'd move it, clean off all the oil & mess it spewed out all underneath the car, then yank the engine & pull it apart for an autopsy. 

Well not in my wildest dreams did I think what it would have been due to how it unloaded the oil out of the breather & 300m of the race track! 

All the pistons ended up fine! The rings also look OK as well. The bores are that shot, that you clearly see the rings down the sides of the pistons!!! haha 

Yes & its been like since I even fitted the first turbo!!! Very surprising how much stock pistons, rods etc. can take! 


Anyway. I had alook all over & while looking at the rings, I noticed this below! 

Blew the centre compression ring out of a 3 layer factory G60 headgasket!!! 

It blew in 2 spots in Cyl.1 & one spot in Cyl.2. All the rest were all ok. 





















While I've got it all out & half apart, I'll strip it down completely & just have a look how the rings & bearing have faired after 10K of total street & race abuse! 

After all, its 99% still stock, apart from the G60 headgasket & my home porting! Stock valves, guides (shot to buggery!) etc etc. 

Hopefully have it all back together this weekend & driving a again, although this time I'll fit a tall ratio 5spd & a HD 210 clutch kit I have here for the daily commute for a while. 

I have another car here that needs a trans rebuilt. So once that trans is all sorted, I'll bang the locked diff diesel 4spd back in it with the stage 5 clutch & head back out racing! Hopefully by that time, the weather will have started to clear up! 

Wonder how much more abuse this thing can handle!!!


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## mk1vDUBtec (Aug 12, 2009)

Thats awesome news :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: 
Glad to hear it.... Aren't ya glad you didn't sell it now  
Haha, can't wait to see this thing run mid 12's!!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mk1vDUBtec said:


> Thats awesome news :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:
> Glad to hear it.... Aren't ya glad you didn't sell it now
> Haha, can't wait to see this thing run mid 12's!!


 Yes & no really as to selling it. 

On one hand, I could have saved a heap of coin & just kept on racing my ute! 

But as I'm now keeping it, I've finally got some motivation to build the 20v engine I've been meaning to build over 11 years as well, which I've had sitting here for 11 years too!. Just never had the funds or couldn't be bothered at different stages. 

So the plan is to getting it going again with the K-ket, race it with the manual & then build & test the 010 auto with a 4000-4500 stall, then later in the year build the 20v to fit with the auto. All the parts have been ordered & paid for, so just waiting for them to turn up. 


I could just go out & fit the 20v now & wait a few months for all the parts to arrive, then wait some more to get all the machining & head work done etc., 

But I can get the car going now, as I have all the parts here required & I know that the K-jet setup can still go faster. How much faster. Not sure, but it maybe a 12.5-12.6 I reckon, which isn't too bad for a stock setup with boost & factory K-jet. 

Time will tell, but I have some big things planned for later this year if all goes well & get to test & race it abit over xmas & summer. 

Then around the start to middle of the year, I'd like to restore the car. It will get all the rust, paint & chrome etc. engine bay smoothed, hidden wiring etc sorted. I have sourced nearly every NOS door & window seals/rubbers etc etc. Will also get the bumpers straightened & rechromed, powder coat the stock rims, although I'm getting a set of stock rims widen so I can run the M&H DOT 205 tyres. Want to keep it in full street trim, although, I know as some stage I'll have to run full slicks. 

So the plan is to have a completely restored, stock looking on both the inside & outside 76 Swallowtail 5dr, with very big heart!


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## mk1vDUBtec (Aug 12, 2009)

I've got a 20v in my rabbit... I highly recommend it. 
What trans are you running in the k-jet. And is it built at all (LSD?) 
I can't remember.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mk1vDUBtec said:


> I've got a 20v in my rabbit... I highly recommend it.
> What trans are you running in the k-jet. And is it built at all (LSD?)
> I can't remember.


 Nice! I had m 20v mounted in the car back in 2000, but never got around finishing. I spent the mone on building a tough V8 street car instead! haha 

The trans that I'm currently using for daily & race use is a stock Mk1 diesel 4spd, with a set of ARP diff bolts & I welded the diff centre. 

I've done roughly 10K after I modded it & haven't had any drama's with it, although parallel parking is a bit hard! But you get use it to & it helps as I'm running the stock 13" wheels & 165 tyres, so its still light to turn, just a pain in the arse to have to push it around a corner or into the shed! haha 

I've smashed a handful of 020 5spds now with both NA & the first T3 turbo setup & have always had to refit the same 4spd so I can still drive the car & I just can't kill. That box is also the same one that came with my very first mk1 all those years ago too, so its stood the test of time.


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## mk1vDUBtec (Aug 12, 2009)

a 20v in the back? haha sweeet. 

hmm interesting. 
And you do burnouts/abuse the 4 speed right? 
So are you saying that you've found the 4 speed to be stronger from the factory than the 5 speeds? Any idea why that is? 
What went bad in the 5 speeds? The diff rivets? Or did they have the bolt kit too? (just wondering, because I'm planning on swapping an FN trans into mine and doing the bolt kit mod... my 4k is wayy too short ratio to be fun on the highway) :beer:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mk1vDUBtec said:


> a 20v in the back? haha sweeet.
> 
> hmm interesting.
> And you do burnouts/abuse the 4 speed right?
> ...


 Nah, not in the back of the car. But back in 2000! Haha. 

I have found the 4spd to be a ton stronger, even after all the 2-step 2nd & 3rd gear burnouts & drag launches. 

They still have the rivets though, just about every 020 l think. But the 4spd also put up with this abuse when it was a stock open diff with rivets too!! Then l welded it & fitted the bolt kit. 

I wouldn't say its the best for hwy speeds though. I only cruise on the hwy's. 3500 @ 98Km/h. I'm not a fan anymore of going flatout on the street, as l've lost my licence for stupid crap & was very lucky to not have the golf impounded too! 

But it can still run nearly 107mph over the 1/4 & its just off hitting the rev limiter @ 6600. So it works out just about perfect for the current tyre size & power.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well I managed to get home early enough to get into the shed to continue part 2 of the engine autopsy! 

First up was the big end bearings, which appear to have copped a hiding! Scratched up pretty bad considering, but nothing had picked up & scored them that bad. 

Cyl. 1 crank journal though doesn't look to flash either. But I reckon a quick once over with some fine emery should bring it back to ok. 

All the other big end journals are still in good condition, although I haven't measured everything up. 

Next up were the pistons & I'm glad I decided to pull the complete engine down for a "just in case" feeling. 

My first though about melting/cracking a piston had come true!!! 

No.1 piston had cracked the top-2nd compression ring land in one spot & also cracked through the 2nd ring-oil scraper ring land too! 

No.2 piston had cracked through the top-2nd ring land in two places & you can actually see where the cyl. pressure has got in behind it & pushed the ring land section against the cyl. wall, as the section is nice & clean. 
It also jammed up the oil scraper ring too! 

All other pistons & rings are all ok. 

Main bearings also appear to have copped a hiding as well, but don't look too bad either. 

I also got some better picks of the head gasket damage on both No1 & 2 cyl.'s 


Cyl. 1 big section on the inlet side 










Also cyl.1, but on the exhaust side 










Cyl. 2 blown section on the inlet side too. 










This was the best picture taken of the big ends unfortunately 










Cyl. 1 big end journal 










Cyl. 1 Piston. You can clearly see the 2 cracks on the ring lands 










Cyl. 2 Piston. This is where the first crack is & you can see how the ring land is nice & clean to the left of the crack. 










This is were the other crank is/ends abit over 90° around the piston. You can see that the ring land is clean to the right of the crack, indicating where the ring land has been pushed out & made contact with the cyl. wall. 










Main bearings.. 



















Nearly all the parts are ready for the bin! haha 










I think the car will get used to this mounting position over the next half of the year with future abuse & upgrades!!!


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

Chris mentioned you decided to keep it, nice to see you have not let the sun go down on her despite the setback. 

When is the next hard waste night to ditch all those shagged parts? :laugh:


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## mk1vDUBtec (Aug 12, 2009)

yay for pictures! 
Now that you've seen the damage, what's your plan of action? scrap the 8v and throw in the 20v? or keep the 8v and put in new pistons, etc. for the time being?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mikinoz said:


> Chris mentioned you decided to keep it, nice to see you have not let the sun go down on her despite the setback.
> 
> When is the next hard waste night to ditch all those shagged parts? :laugh:


 Why wait till hard rubbish night! haha 

I've once threw a full cyl. head in the green waist bin! 

The bang was that loud at 5 in the morning when the truck dropped it into a nearly empty dumpster woke me up instantly & I had a fair old chuckle to myself! haha


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mk1vDUBtec said:


> yay for pictures!
> Now that you've seen the damage, what's your plan of action? scrap the 8v and throw in the 20v? or keep the 8v and put in new pistons, etc. for the time being?


 Well the plan was made ages ago & I got hold of another banger GX long engine which I was told was a "good runner". 

So I'll strip that one, see whats what & if the pistons & bores are good, I'll use that short motor& use all my top end stuff. 
If the bores are worse than what I have, but the pistons seem ok, I'll bang the those pistons in my original block & head. 

If all is shot? 

Well, I pick out the best of the best & slap it together for an experiment & see how fast a POS miss matched engine it will go! haha 

If I have the parts & time. why not I suppose!


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## mk1vDUBtec (Aug 12, 2009)

John Milner said:


> If all is shot?
> 
> Well, I pick out the best of the best & slap it together for an experiment & see how fast a POS miss matched engine it will go! haha
> 
> If I have the parts & time. why not I suppose!


 :beer: :beer: :beer:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well everything "was" going to plan! 

Engine is all stripped down, cleaned

Had a friend over for the weekend & we both stripped the other engine, cleaned, inspected all the parts & picked out the best bits. Only the pistons survived, which is good for me.










I started off cleaning up different bits & pieces, prepping the new flywheel & stock HD clutch, repainting the gearbox & rebuilding another set of driveshafts to suit the new tall ratio diesel 5spd with 100mm flanges for the daily commute. ("only for now though!" It will get the full race box & race clutch later on, one I get a few other things sorted around home & the weather starts to clear up.)


My friend started to assemble the engine, measure up all the main & big end clearance & then prep the pistons.

Then I find out I only had a set of rings for ONE piston :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

I know I ordered the right amount & the right ones.

SO, I recheck my order receipt & a receipt from a previous order when I last built the engine.

I had ordered the same part # rings & same quantity of ONE set of pistons rings as before, so everything at my end is spot on!

Only to have ONE set for ONE piston sent!



So its on hold for now. Sorry peoples. I really wanted it sorted this weekend, as I have a long list of things to get through & get done too, which all gets put back until this is running again.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well after the stuff up with the parts ordering, I finally got the missing parts & got to work ASAP.

I basically went out to the shed & started at 1.00pm & didn't come in till the engine was built, installed & running which the first fire up was at 4.40am!!!

Right now I've been up for 2 days straight. 

Great to be driving it again.

Only a couple of tiny things to sort out, but it now has a diesel 5spd, so it has tall ratios. [email protected]/h! Love it.

So now the Golf has a tall ratio 5spd, my old HD stock style clutch & open diff. Heaps better car to drive & cruise on long trips.

I also detuned it a fair bit, but it still turns the tyres hard in 2nd. The clutch won't let the tyres turn in 3rd. Just slips.

But with some boost taken out & some more timing, it still feels like it will run a mid-low 13 in full street trim.

The 5spd will be short lived though, as I'm going to make a start on the auto soon. But will refit the locked diff diesel box, drag clutch & race it again to try & improve on the 12.99. Then fit & test the auto setup & try & get on top of the high stall setup. Hoping for around a 4500 stall.

But for now. Just cruising daily duties.


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## mk1vDUBtec (Aug 12, 2009)

John Milner said:


> Well after the stuff up with the parts ordering, I finally got the missing parts & got to work ASAP.
> 
> I basically went out to the shed & started at 1.00pm & didn't come in till the engine was built, installed & running which the first fire up was at 4.40am!!!
> 
> ...


:beer:
which longratio diesel? FN? I just picked one of those up. Can't wait to install it. 3500 rpm @ 65mph is getting really old and I can't mess with cars on the highway because I top out too fast


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mk1vDUBtec said:


> :beer:
> which longratio diesel? FN? I just picked one of those up. Can't wait to install it. 3500 rpm @ 65mph is getting really old and I can't mess with cars on the highway because I top out too fast


To be honest....

I don't really know what the code is! 

The machined code surface has been ground away!!!!

But at 3000rpm in 5th it does 115km/h.


Tall ratios with the turbo is awesome. Detuned it with less boost & more timing & it will smoke the crap out of the tyres on the 2-step in 2nd!!!!

Also sprints like a bastard from a 50km/h roll on in 2nd. Roughly 2 seconds from 50-95 turning the tyres hard in 2nd & pulling like a hooker who'd charge $2000hr!!!!


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

Glad to see it going again:beer:Also my 8v just took a dump compression real low and tons of blowby will find out shortly the damage and order new pistons and rings and be good again.I guess stock pistons can only handle so much before going at 20 psi and a 1 1/2 of daily abuse and not being nice to it and have a big holset doesnt help hahahaha


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwturbofox said:


> Glad to see it going again:beer:Also my 8v just took a dump compression real low and tons of blowby will find out shortly the damage and order new pistons and rings and be good again.I guess stock pistons can only handle so much before going at 20 psi and a 1 1/2 of daily abuse and not being nice to it and have a big holset doesnt help hahahaha


No good, but still amazed at how much a stock piston can handle, providing you keep detonation at bay! That was my engines failure, due to a split boost sens WUR hose.


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

John Milner said:


> No good, but still amazed at how much a stock piston can handle, providing you keep detonation at bay! That was my engines failure, due to a split boost sens WUR hose.


a 90* rubber vacuum line connector would have saved you..

i picked one off a mid 90's TBI chevy pickup. its for the MAP sensor, works perfectly..

thats my fix for the boost hose barb being soo darn close to the flange..


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Bugger all updates sorry peoples.

But I finally got a pair of stock 13" rims widened to 6" & a pair of 205/60-13 M&H street/drag tyres.

They just fit with bugger all room between the tyre & coilover spring perch

I could of gone with a light weight alloy, like a weld rim or bogart etc, but I wanted to keep the stock-ish looking apearance. 

Can't wait to test them out. 

But will have to wait, as the weather here has been crap as & they are only running the strip once a month at the minute.

Also have to refit the drag clutch & locked diff box of gears too. But can't do that till the clutch hs been balanced with the other engine.

Ah well

Hard to believe that these are actual a legal street tyre with a DOT rating!! 

Full slick with 2 grooves!!! haha

Oh also a cross ply. not sure how they'll go in the braking zone with the radials on the back. 

If experience is anything to go by, a RWD car with cross ply's on the back & radials on the front isn't the best to drive at all!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Finally got a chance to play with the suspension setup to sort out some clearance issues.

Found out I had to raise it more than I'd like, as it now looks horrible sitting up this high, but...

Function over form!!

Also with it raised up, the front tyres, clear the coilover spring perch's without the need of 6mm spacer rings too & it give it a more stockish look when the stock wheels are fitted all round.

On the initial R/test to sort out the alignment & "re-round" the tyres, I put them to the test & holys%#t!!! These things hook up! HARD!

As its got the stock HD clutch, it just launched in 1st, hooked up, into 2nd & the boost came on strong & the clutch started to slip!

Can't wait to fit the drag clutch & gearbox setup & really lean on it!

Just have to play the waiting game now for the street meets to start up again, once the weather gets better.

Anyway. Some pics of the new ride height, street drag setup after a clean up.

I won't be driving on these all the time, if anything & store them properly. 

But I will use them to drive to & from the strip once the package is reliable enough. As I live 1.5hrs away from the nearest drag strip, so it has to be ultra reliable at that!!!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Its like xmas when stuff like this turns up!

Got all the modified brake pedal box & bias bar setup, to relocate all the engine bay brake linkages, cross bar set under the dash board.

This will become a non-assisted brake setup, so no booster/vacuum. If you use the right sized master cyl.'s, the pedal will have 100% feed back & also not too stiff/hard to operate.

I've gone with this setup, to remove all the engine bay brake setup to provide room for the engine upgrade to a 20v with a GT3076R, but also a future "larger" turbo upgrade when the need arises.

This setup was built by the original company in the UK who use to make the "Autocavan" style setups which were the "Bee's knees" back in the early days of modding & racing Mk1 Golfs. They also manufactured alot of other specialized parts for the Mk1 incl. 

The "Motorsport" front & rear trans mounts to stop engine/gearbox flex. It will vibrate a bit more than stock of course, but not as bad as the Nolethane style mounts or mount inserts which I've had before, along with plenty of other branded type engine mounts.

I'll make a front rad support brace as well to stiffen everything up. If the wheels start to pull forward too much under high load/hook up, I can also utilize this bar to fit sliding traction bars which will slip in/out for normal street use, but insert a pin & lock the rod to avoid the lower control arm moving forward. To add to this, I'll probably make a rear lower control arm bush brace to tie in both the rear mounting from trying to pull away from each other & pull the chassis legs aparts. 

But this is a fair way off still & will see how it all pans out.

On with the pics. The quality is awesome & can't wait to strip the car down & plumb it all in. 




























































































Also scored a Peterson twin inlet breather tank for a score off ebay! This will suit the block & head breathing with -12 fittings!


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## mk1vDUBtec (Aug 12, 2009)

looking good! :thumbup:


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## Dub Toffee (Apr 17, 2011)

Hi Mate its very stealthy with the sun visor hey 
Good to catch up with you on the phone too.
ive got the next 5 days off so im sure il find time to have a good read of this
Love that its back in business and definitely meaning business too
this insane mk1, Preens, and my White GTI what a fun day at the track thats going to be!
bring on the trifecta!! haha

ive got the motivation i needed now cheers ;-)


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Dub Toffee said:


> Hi Mate its very stealthy with the sun visor hey
> Good to catch up with you on the phone too.
> ive got the next 5 days off so im sure il find time to have a good read of this
> Love that its back in business and definitely meaning business too
> ...


haha. cheers dude.

Nothing like a bit of motivation to get things kicking again.

Not sure how my thing will go "around" a track, but it would still be fun once your pointing in a straight line! haha


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## anlxn (Oct 18, 2009)

WOW, John you impress me every time I look at this thread!
here is an Idea I got brewing for the spare parts egines I got laying aroun tell me what you think
1.8 16v block and crank+early 1.8T rods and pistons+16v head=9.0:1 comp ratio
what do ya think?........now thats a mix of parts:screwy:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

anlxn said:


> WOW, John you impress me every time I look at this thread!
> here is an Idea I got brewing for the spare parts egines I got laying aroun tell me what you think
> 1.8 16v block and crank+early 1.8T rods and pistons+16v head=9.0:1 comp ratio
> what do ya think?........now thats a mix of parts:screwy:


Sounds like a basket case!


I LIKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hahaha


Over the last couple of days, I've really been thumping the crap out of the car. Multiple 2nd gear 2-step 80+m powerskids with upto 3 people in it & it still pulls like a 16 year old reading lingerie mags!!! haha

Tyres are screwed & the engine isn't far off!

It pumped out 2L of oil & sprayed it all down the RHS of the car again!!! haha.

but not to worry! I drove it this morning gently up the road with less boost & it only had a couple of oil spray drops! So I topped up the oil & did a 200km round trip cruising with a few full power runs & it still spewed some oil out, & breathes pretty heavy, but its still going!

I can't believe how much abuse these stock engines can actually take!!! I thought I had destroyed it again for sure, the way it pumped out oil. 

So the boost is backed off to 13psi & I've added some timing so compensate. Feels really good & very smooth. Still turns the tyres in 2nd, but not hard. Feels like a high 13 setup.

Hopefully it will last a bit longer for daily duties until the next engine gets built, but I won't be racing it again with the K-jet setup. I don't want to do another 3/4 track oil down!!!


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## mileycyrus (Jun 1, 2011)

forgive the bump.....haters...


no...nevermind....im not sorry...this thread is outstanding on so many levels its unrealistic...



you my friend are a real driver, not afraid to try things, do things, make things, drive and enjoy your car....for what it is, should be and can be.

good **** man....i am insanely impressed, and i would like to thank you for the inspiration, and shear creativity......you are a serious marvel, people now never risk anything, nobody runs their projects to the max anymore, and it seems caution.....never goes to the wind, and i think it should...and with that...the enjoyment goes right out the window like a raggedy cigarette butt....

so my friend...HATS OFF TO YOU....:thumbup:

sincerely, 
Aaron, Tampa Florida, USA


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## CallawayTurbo (Mar 14, 2006)

Tim,

Can you help me out with some build question I have with my Callaway Turbo.

I have the 91 Mk1 Cabriolet which has the 2H engine with Digifant 1

and retrofitting everything back to the older K-Jet
with a volvo 240T CIS module and WUR.

what about the fuel pump and accumulator, should these be retrofitted as well ,
Is there a certain psi minimum ( I saw 72psi in your topic as example)

I saw you did not use a bracket from block to turbo at all.
does it hold the weight ? you think its not nescesary ?


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## deathhare. (Apr 1, 2008)

A digifant car's fuel pump will not deliver enough fuel for a CIS fuel system.


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## CallawayTurbo (Mar 14, 2006)

deathhare. said:


> A digifant car's fuel pump will not deliver enough fuel for a CIS fuel system.


do you know where I can find comparable operating numbers ?

and should the accumulator be changed out too ?


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## deathhare. (Apr 1, 2008)

CallawayTurbo said:


> do you know where I can find comparable operating numbers ?
> 
> and should the accumulator be changed out too ?


Digifant cars didnt have accumulators. If you want one, add one. They arent 100% needed but if you have one, its easy enough to add.
If you run a standard Bosch mk1 CIS pump with the Volvo stuff, you'll be golden. 
Ive personally done it.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Sorry peoples. 

Its been absolutely ages since I've been back on Vortex.

Been busy with other stuff incl. house renos, thumping & racing my other car at performance car events & the drag strip.

Pretty happy, as I finally got a chance to race my ute after I've had the high stall loosened up to 4200 & the auto rebuilt. 
On its last outing it ran its PB of [email protected] with a lazy 1.72 60ft in full street trim. Tarp, tailgate on etc. The works!!!! 

All I do is fit the MT ET streets at home, drive the 100km trip, let the rear tyres down to 17psi, pump the fronts up to 50psi & remove the cold air intake air filter & spare wheel.

If I let the intake cool off about 30mins longer, theres maybe a 0.1 sec left in it & some reckon a couple more if I remove the tarp & tailgate completely.

At its last car event.











Heres a video I put together of a few good friends & myself having a mess around at one of the recent performance car events. 






At the drags 







































Since my last post about the old 76er deciding to take up oil spewing again, it didn't last much longer after that last post & was then put out to pasture for a while, so I've been driving my ute as a daily since then doing the 200km round trip for work, plus several interstate trips, events etc etc.

So its been clocking up the km's & is just getting run down across the front, from road rash, small animals, exhaust is coping a hammering from speed humps etc. So not really too good for it. It still goes good, but the novelty of driving a 11 sec daily driver is wearing thin & getting boring. 


So.... 

Its time to resurrect the old white rust bucket again with another slapper 1.8L.

Here are the pistons from Cyl's 2 & 4. Needless to say, why it was pumping oil out of it like it was going out of fashion!!!










I recently got hold of another low km 1.8L & tore it apart, cleaned it all & measured it up.
It all appears to be in good condition. The pistons are all excellent, the crank & journals are all round & have no marks in them. The bores are all consistent & have reasonable piston-bore clearances of 0.0029" being the max. (not bad, as I've set my new 20vt up with 3" thou clearance for high boost & possible NOS.) The bores also cleaned up very well with a light honing stone too!

So I'll slap in some new rings & bearings, G60 headgasket, swap over all the ARP hardware & even throw in my old 20vt rods (which are mint & came out of my 30K old 20vt I brought back in 2000), throw it back in & run a safe tune with around 13-15psi for the daily commute. 

With the current tall ratio 5psd ([email protected]/h from memory), it cruised along awesome, quiet, its great on fuel & was getting consistent 440km for 32L.! (32mpg?)

No plans to race this setup, as I'd like it to last to save some $$$$$ (this costs far less to run than the ute!)


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mileycyrus said:


> forgive the bump.....haters...
> 
> 
> no...nevermind....im not sorry...this thread is outstanding on so many levels its unrealistic...
> ...



Thanks heaps for the big thumps up Aaron! 

Appreciate it & glad to be some sort of inspiration for yourself & others I suppose. Never really thought a setup so simple would get people inspired to be honest.

I've normally copped more of the CIS haters!



I've got hold of another 76 Mk1, but this one is a white 3dr. Not a swallowtail, but its the first year they were released in Australia & actually assembled here in Australia, so it has a few swallowtail parts fitted. Just not the main distinguishing feature of the rear bever panel.

Anyways, this may be the next car the K-jet turbo setup might find its way into for a daily driver while I restore this 5dr. I'd like the K-jet setup to continue & this is most likely the only way it will carry on. 

Cheers again for you post!!!!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

CallawayTurbo said:


> Tim,
> 
> Can you help me out with some build question I have with my Callaway Turbo.
> 
> ...



G'day chief!

deathhare is 100% right about the fuel pump setup! 

Due to the pretty beefy construction of the ATP cast exhaust manifold, I didn't feel it was necessary to make up a support bracket to brace the turbo.

But if you feel you should, its probable not a bad idea if you have concerns about it.


My setup has done around 30K now since I actually first turbo'd the K-jet a few years ago & have never had any problem with exhaust leaks from the head/exhaust, exhaust/turbo inlet or turbo/dump pipe. 

The only problems I've had with the exhaust, is braking the flex joint after the dump pipe once & with one of the dump pipe support brackets cracking the pipe in the early days. I've since rewelded the dump pipe bracket area as seen below with some thick pipe section.


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## CallawayTurbo (Mar 14, 2006)

thanks :thumbup:

pretty fast Holden you got there.

this has the LS corvette engine ?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

CallawayTurbo said:


> thanks :thumbup:
> 
> pretty fast Holden you got there.
> 
> this has the LS corvette engine ?


Cheers chief!

Yeah its the last year of this shape being a VZ series 2. This had the 6L L76 engine fitted with the DOD hardware. But the OZ market didn't have the DOD software. This came later.

All the DOD hardware has been removed & is now the later L98 spec. 

As far as mods, the engine has only had a cam, lifters & springs fitted internally. No other internal mods. Stock heads, intake, throttle body etc. Had a full twin 2.5" exhaust with 4-1 extractors, 100cel cats, Cold Air Intake, tune, 4200 stall, built auto & 3.9 gears fitted. 




















So very mild to say the least. Plenty more left in it & have thought about fitting either a procharger kit or a whipple style 2.4L blower. Its either that or a 100 hit of the good GAS! 

That may come later on, but for now, its all about the rust bucket.


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## CallawayTurbo (Mar 14, 2006)

slam a Callaway Supercharger on this :wave:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well, from the last post about the new engine bore measurements. 

Its now all assembled & running. All the bearing clearances measured up 100%. All between 2.1-2.3 thou! Crank end play spot on. 

Once the fuel pump had primed, it fired straight up & idled cleanly no worries. 

Washed off all the oil mess under the RHF gaurd & RHS floor pan, fitted up the A/F meter & boost activation light to fine tune it. 

Filled up with fresh 98 & have since put about 100km of hard driving on it since it's been running. So safe to say its now bed in. No more vapour from the breather filter, even after 20km!!!!! 15psi will do that!!! haha 

Settled on approx 15psi, safe fuel & timing. As its been 30+ degrees here for around a week now & more than likely the same for awhile yet. 

Still moves along alright, can squeal the tyres in 2nd upto 70-80km/h no worries & thats with the tall ratio 5spd too! 

If you quick change 1-2nd, you can pedal a 50m powerskid easily! 

All in all, it feels like a high 13 sec pass safe tune & that will do for a streeter. 

Forgot how nice it was to drive to be honest. Nice & quiet, smooth etc. 

Love being in a Mk1 again. 

Will get some pics tomorrow. 

But for now, its all clean & eksy ready to go for tomorrows cruise 











Also a pic of a recent interstate purchase. 

Another Mint 76 3dr golf. Not sure whats in store for it yet. Price was right & car is a 100% awesome solid base for a all out resto, performance build up or even just a tidy up for a stock daily driver. For now it can sit in storage till I find some spare time to get around to it.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Some more pics from todays Dub Stitute 2012 event. The aftermath! 

I should say thats its still clean other than some brake dust. 
















































Also something for a laugh on the way home & something I'd never guess would happen in a million years. 

We came across a AC Cobra 427 replica. Sounded like a real big block too! Big bloke driving it & was chewing on a 1" cigar/stogy hanging out his mouth. Which was pretty funny just in itself! 

We cruised past him at about 95-100km/h, dropped it back to 3rd & mashed it for laughs. Well the bloke bites & he's into it too! My friend who was following in his 20vt Mk1 GTI, got into too! 

Shifted into 4th & held it for tiny bit, looked down & 170km/h easy as, but called it at that. Bloke was only just starting to reel me in, in the top end. 

He pulls up along side, give a big stogy grin & thumbs up. Good sport! 

& luckily enough, my friend following got it all on film!!!!


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

Mate that post made my day, old middle aged men are the best to blow by. 

And I'm pretty jealous of your new whip as well. 

Happy new year mate.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mikinoz said:


> Mate that post made my day, old middle aged men are the best to blow by.
> 
> And I'm pretty jealous of your new whip as well.
> 
> Happy new year mate.


 Cheers Mik!!! Happy new year & holidays right back at you! 

The bloke caught me by surprise! I wasn't even up for a run. Just felt like going for it & he took a bite! 



Pretty happy with the 3dr. 

Not sure whats the plan for it. Brought it, as its mint & I felt the price was right. 

But maybe a tidy up, replace all the glass seals & door/window chrome trim (plastic chrome rooted!!!), S1 GTI plastic dash, retrim/re-foam the drivers seat & fix up the rust spots & it would be a real nice cruiser. 

Could go the extra length & go a Newton Comm. black door/side trim set, white roof liner & just re-trim all the seats in black vinyl with the same stitching pattern locally. Carpet is mint! 

"IF" all of the above does happen, I'll probably swap in the K-jet turbo gear, brake setup & fit some KW V2's for a daily. 

I'll hit you up for the S1 Ronal turbo's when your sick of them!!!!!! My favorite wheel of all time! 

But for now, it can sit in my dads shed, till I find time to look at it. 

Got a heap of other stuff on the go at the moment.


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

John Milner said:


> Could go the extra length & go a Newton Comm. black door/side trim set, white roof liner & just re-trim all the seats in black vinyl with the same stitching pattern locally. Carpet is mint!
> 
> I'll hit you up for the S1 Ronal turbo's when your sick of them!!!!!! My favorite wheel of all time!


 I don't think that I will be letting the turbo's go very soon, but your interest is noted!  

I agree, go out and get the cards/liner/parcel tray etc from Newton and make it nice and like new. I have bought these for my car and think that it really is worth the investment. 

Black vinyl re-trim is not that costly either. It will be a nice looking machine in that get up. :thumbup:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

mikinoz said:


> I don't think that I will be letting the turbo's go very soon, but your interest is noted!
> 
> I agree, go out and get the cards/liner/parcel tray etc from Newton and make it nice and like new. I have bought these for my car and think that it really is worth the investment.
> 
> Black vinyl re-trim is not that costly either. It will be a nice looking machine in that get up. :thumbup:


 Yeah I had another look around home & found I have a couple of "mint" spare seats with the same mustard color seat trims. 

So all I really need is to replace the drivers seat base trim & seat backrest foam & it will be mint. 

Parcel shelf is repairable, as I've done plenty before & then track down a Series 1 plastic GTI dash. 

Rest of the interior is pretty mint, although it could do with a roof liner replacement too. Stains & a couple of tears. 

The complete newton replacement would be bloody nice, but they don't do the arm rest style rear side panels. 

Also prefer "stock" original stuff. 

If the stock stuff is in nice condition, why not keep it all stock. Even if it is mustard!!! haha


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## 16v abf (Apr 3, 2009)

*mk1 golf 2 piece mounts*

where can i purchase the 2 piece front mount for the mk1 golf....wicked car even better than the tt mk1 of the 80s. thank you....:thumbup:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

16v abf said:


> where can i purchase the 2 piece front mount for the mk1 golf....wicked car even better than the tt mk1 of the 80s. thank you....:thumbup:


Thanks for the comments.


If your talking about the front engine/gearbox mount, they came out from the UK. I can't remember how much they cost, as I've since lost the invoice.

But you can contact the company on ClubGTI.com. Not sure if you need to create an account or not.


But the person your chasing is HRP Kim.

Hope this helps.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well, SFA has been going on with the Mk1 since its been rebuilt, apart from the daily grind.

The only thing thats been letting down enjoying the drive, is its had brake shudder for awhile now. I've had the discs machined twice & it lasts for about 3 weeks each time, before the shudder starts up again. I had a 280mm conversion before reverting back to the stock GTI discs & they also had the same problem, even after being machined.

I decided to just bite the bullet & replace the front hubs, bearings, new discs & pads. 

The hubs have done roughly 600-650+k & are the original hubs from my first Mk1, so it must have been due for replacement.

I ended up fitted another set of ATE Powerdiscs, Mintex pads, Meyle front hubs & generic front wheel bearings.

I did want to fit a set of ARP studs to the hubs, but they didn't come in time. 

Now the car is back to being a joy to drive again & really looking forward to doing some interstate trips in it over the next few months.

Over the last few weeks, its been averaging 33mpg, even with 15psi still wound into, so the tank range isn't too bad either.


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## anlxn (Oct 18, 2009)

Well John I am really impressed the milage/km you get with your car if indeed your conversions are correct and I dont see why not because you seem pretty smart. in the states our fuel is going down the tubes as far as quality and price lately and my Kjet is suffering for this it only gets about 205 miles per 9 gallons of fuel and if yhe car sits for a 2 week spell it runs really bad with misfire under boost then I make a few adjustments to get it to run good throughout the range and then refuel with fresh gas and start over back and fourth ........so for me I believe its time for some electronic management...........oh and back to the fuel here 10% ethonal wich absorbs moisture easily and degrades fast(looses octane)


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

anlxn said:


> Well John I am really impressed the milage/km you get with your car if indeed your conversions are correct and I dont see why not because you seem pretty smart. in the states our fuel is going down the tubes as far as quality and price lately and my Kjet is suffering for this it only gets about 205 miles per 9 gallons of fuel and if yhe car sits for a 2 week spell it runs really bad with misfire under boost then I make a few adjustments to get it to run good throughout the range and then refuel with fresh gas and start over back and fourth ........so for me I believe its time for some electronic management...........oh and back to the fuel here 10% ethonal wich absorbs moisture easily and degrades fast(looses octane)


I hope my calculations are right! haha

I'm getting 445km with a 32L fill. So what ever that works out to be?


Your right about fuel quality though. 

I've found K-jet is very sensitive to not only different octane ratings, time left at a stand still, but also brands of fuel. ie. Mobil, BP, Shell, Caltex. (not sure in the US though sorry).

Its also alot more sensitive when you apply boost to it too. Thats why I decided on a 'safe' tune with conservative timing. It does nose over in the top of 3rd on a cold night (hot days its ok), but thats pushing over the speed limit & rarely used. As long as it has some tyre squeal in 2nd & a bit of poke in 3rd to sprint to 100km/h its ok for a daily. 

Plus, as its a daily, its always getting a constant turnover of fresh fuel, so it doesn't have time to go off (turn stale). 


I have often thought about switching to a standalone & have a list of all the parts required to do the conversion on the 8v, but as I don't race it anymore, I think its better just to leave it alone as a daily & save the efi for the next engine (built 20v big turbo setup).

Even with a 'safe' tune, it can still put a smile on your dial. But as with most things, its hard to let go of what it was like as a 12sec time bomb! haha. 

Thats why I have my ute, even though I get more enjoyment out of driving the Golf on most occasions.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well a quick update on what was an ongoing build project.

My eventual plan was to build a built 20vt with a big turbo.

This has now been put on hold indefinitely due to dealings with (in kinder words) a very piss poor parts supplier, who regularly advertises on vortex!!!

Long story short...

After been treated like a mushroom (kept in the dark & fed s#$t), ongoing bulls#%t & being lied to for 7+months after forking out for a big $$$ engine build, I finally received all my parts, although even then, they couldn't supply the right parts I ordered either. (incl. blaming another major US parts supplier for the hold up. So I contacted the "major" supplier who had never even heard of the said company!!!)

Anyways, having all the parts sitting on the shelf just aggravated the hell out of me everytime I looked at them.

What is suppose to be a enjoyable & fun experience to start on a new project/engine build, was turned into anger every time I thought about it.

So to the remove the anger, remove the parts!!!

So I sold everything off I received to here, there & all over & will start on another engine build when I feel the need.




Only this time, will use suppliers I've had great previous dealings with!



Funny how you get more fun out of building banger stuff on a budget & the big $$$$ builds just piss' you off!


So I think this will be the end of the updates & build thread, as there won't be much going on at all, unless I feel the need to race the current setup at a much later date.

Thanks for looking......


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## DuB-P (Nov 18, 2011)

watching. WOW


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## RAB-817 (Dec 13, 2010)

Updates? Killed again yet? haha


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## mikinoz (Jun 20, 2005)

Not sure if your still about Tim but I need some K-Jet advice. 

If a WUR is at 24.2 ohms and the range specified is 16-22, could this be causing overfuelling? 

You know of a reliable secondhand source or a reasonably priced supplier of them new. 

Also where should I look to pick up a fuel pressure gauge to test the system pressure? 

Sorry to bother you, this is for Liam's GTI he bought off Matt and has never had it run proper. 

Chat soon. 
Mick.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

mikinoz said:


> Not sure if your still about Tim but I need some K-Jet advice.
> 
> If a WUR is at 24.2 ohms and the range specified is 16-22, could this be causing overfuelling?


The warmup regulator has a little heater in it to heat up a coil that changes a bi-metalic spring that changes with heat. When this spring contacts a fuel regulator inside the warmup regulator that changes the fuel pressure. This fuel pressure change, changes the fuel pressure above the control piston in the fuel dist. 

So in a nut shell, probably not. CIS may be difficult to understand, but I still do not get why anyone would not get a good fuel pressure gauge so the system can be diagnosed correctly. This constant guessing and talking about problems can be answered fairly quickly with a good gauge. So, yes, buy a gauge, and not just a cheap one. A good one. When the engine is cold the pressure out of the warm up regulator will be lower than it would be when it is hot. Everyone is different so there is no specs that fits all. 

As long as the pressure is changing when the electrical plug is installed and the engine is not running, then the heater is most likely working. As long as it is working [changing pressure], it is most likely OK. Sure the heater could be weak, sure the bi-metalic spring could be weak, and yes, the fuel regulator may be failing inside the warm up reg. But I would be checking other things before automatically condeming the regulator. There are ways to change/adjust the regulator to get things in specs, but in the hands of a rookie, it would most likely be f'd up.


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## anlxn (Oct 18, 2009)

Butcher said:


> The warmup regulator has a little heater in it to heat up a coil that changes a bi-metalic spring that changes with heat. When this spring contacts a fuel regulator inside the warmup regulator that changes the fuel pressure. This fuel pressure change, changes the fuel pressure above the control piston in the fuel dist.
> 
> So in a nut shell, probably not. CIS may be difficult to understand, but I still do not get why anyone would not get a good fuel pressure gauge so the system can be diagnosed correctly. This constant guessing and talking about problems can be answered fairly quickly with a good gauge. So, yes, buy a gauge, and not just a cheap one. A good one. When the engine is cold the pressure out of the warm up regulator will be lower than it would be when it is hot. Everyone is different so there is no specs that fits all.
> 
> As long as the pressure is changing when the electrical plug is installed and the engine is not running, then the heater is most likely working. As long as it is working [changing pressure], it is most likely OK. Sure the heater could be weak, sure the bi-metalic spring could be weak, and yes, the fuel regulator may be failing inside the warm up reg. But I would be checking other things before automatically condeming the regulator. There are ways to change/adjust the regulator to get things in specs, but in the hands of a rookie, it would most likely be f'd up.


well said butcher:thumbup:best advice is buy a guage and geta bosch book


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## CallawayTurbo (Mar 14, 2006)

Butcher said:


> .


Please advise me getting a good pressure meter.

I was told I need a glyserine filled type with meter up to 10 bar which should be around 150psi ?

price range 100 USD


oh and I am an expert rookie :laugh:


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## Road Boss (Jul 16, 2004)

I read this whole thread and really nice work to get these numbers.:thumbup:


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## 4-door crap rabbit (Sep 4, 2001)

NORDLAND said:


> you know how cis kind of starts off pig rich and tapers off...


If your cis starts off pig-rich and tapers off, there is probably something wrong with your control pressure.


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## T3Bunny (Mar 30, 2005)

4-door crap rabbit said:


> If your cis starts off pig-rich and tapers off, there is probably something wrong with your control pressure.


Well, CIS does run rich in warmup. This is normal. Not sure I would call it "pig rich" though... But I am not an expert on CIS, except how to quickly remove it and upgrade it to EFI! With aftermarket EFI, the warmup time is minimal. With the right combination of "pig rich" and timing, I can be at operating temperature in 3-5 minutes!


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## assai (Dec 25, 2014)

how you enrich the mixture? starting atomizer? from which they work? timer stayed home?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Well its been a long time between drinks for my Mk1 or even posting on vortex. 

Alot has been happening over the years, but I'll just focus on the Mk1. Yes its still going!

Last time I raced it, was April 2011!!

After hearing about a big group of mk1 numbers at a recent VW drag event in QLD Australia, I figured it was time to maybe have another crack with it.

So back in went the Spec drag clutch & the locked diff. diesel 4spd box.







I also fitted a new spherical shifter base for a more positive shift, as the original one was still fitted from 1976. The stock one wasn't sloppy, just time for an upgrade.



I also fitted some new front control arm bushes. When I first built this 76'er, I upgraded to 1979 arms with the larger balljoints & they still had the original bushes fitted from new. 
They weren't stuffed, but when you'd launch the car, the front wheel's would pull forward causing the alignment to pull into toe-out & the car would wander through the first 60ft. 
The new bushes are stiffer & noisy, but reduced the wheels movement on the launch. 



Another thing was to get some new tyres, as the original Toyo RA1'a I use to use are shot & hard. 
There are not many motorsport/drag tyres out there that are a street radial, 205 wide max & only 22" tall
So I was left with very few options. So on went some new Toyo R888. on some stock mk1 13" widened rims to 6". 



After all the bits were fitted it, a service (as it was just over 10K since its last one), new gapped plugs etc., it was onto getting the tune dialed back in.
After a few power runs I felt the mixtures, boost & timing were good & safe & the car felt strong pulling hard 2-4th..

So packed my stuff & waited for the next day.



First thing, got everything ready, threw in some Nulon octane booster as a safety barrier if I decided to put a few more degrees of timing in it & headed off to race it.
Half way into the trip I noticed the car felt very sluggish & didn't rev freely to its 7000 limit. 
The mixtures were alittle bit over the place & rechecked the ignition timing at the track. It hadn't moved & was all good.



As its my daily driver (not weekend car! Its my only car at the moment), I had to be careful how I launched it, as I also had to drive it home.
I'm also entered in the 5 day/4 track Drag Week type event here in OZ in a couple of weeks. 
So not only do I want test it out after all this time, also try & run some good numbers with it, but also have to be careful not to break it.

First run, no issues heating the tyres in 2nd gear. Staged, 2-step, build boost & launched gingerly & it struggled to rev & barely made anywhere near its boost limit! WTF! [email protected] 2.3 60ft. I was confused!

Came back & looked over everything. Everything was good. Timing was good, mixtures were all over the place though.

Screwed the boost controller up alittle bit & had another crack.
Boost still didn't want to come up, struggled to rev & [email protected] I thought this is crap! It was heaps better yesterday. 

So I decided to start pulling fuel out of the tune to lean it off a bit.

Next run [email protected] 2.0 60ft. Still crap & its best for the night!

This was basically how the night went on. Pulling more & more fuel out of it till it was lean & didn't make any difference! I was confused. 

It was down 3mph from its best. 

I thought, I know the K-jet is a very finicky & temperament system to different brands of fuels & thought maybe the octane booster has played funny buggers with it. 

The tank was nearly empty after the runs, & filled up with fresh BP Ultimate. Its 1.5hr trip each way to the track. Half way home with the fresh fuel, it started picking up grunt again & had no issues building boost or revving to its limit! By the time I got home, it was turning the sticky tyres from a 60km roll-on without issue!

So I put the night down to a learning experience in regards to octane boost & K-jet, as I'd never tried it before & it failed. 

But it was still good to get out racing after all these years & have a crack at it again
Also to test it before drag challenge & also be able to do a 3hr round trip, race it & not break anything. 

& if anyone has experience racing early fwd VW's, its like trying to hammer a nail in with a glass hammer! You can't be violent with these drivetrains. 

Was also surprised at the attention the rust bucket received too. 
All positive & were very surprised. Especially when you say its a stock early 1.8L, journal bearing turbo & mechanical injection (which 99% of people didn't even know there was such a thing!) & it has gone faster.

I would of like to at least run low 13's at least after a long hiatus , but it wasn't meant to be tonight. 

So will put another tank of fuel through, put all the tune settings back to how they were originally (I checked, marked & wrote down everything before playing around with the tune) & start again & have another shot in a couple of weeks. 

I can't guarantee any times, but I'd like to make it through the week with a low 13's average, but the ultimate would be to see a 12 again after a 4+ year rest from racing.


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## vwjunkie747 (May 22, 2013)

Awesome. I'm glad to see its still going!


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwjunkie747 said:


> Awesome. I'm glad to see its still going!


Yeah its still going & going strong. Now has 635,000km on the clock & I think around 30K on this current engine/turbo setup. 

A bit has happened & things have changed alot since the last update, so bare with me. 

Cheers


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

A bit of an update with proceedings.

As I'm getting a bit older, I've been getting over the KW V3 suspension in the Mk1. 
Yes they are a bloody awesome bit of gear, but the harshness for daily driving on the roads out my way are a joke. 
I've done over 130K with this coilover package, so its not like I'm chickening out from them. 
Everything has their place & that type of suspension with all the adjustability is more for the track.
So removing it, basically means, I don't have any plans on racing the Mk1 anytime soon. 

So I went on the hunt for some stock OEM style suspension. Nothing sporty! 
I eventually found a mob who do a complete kit with Bilstein B4 OEM replacement shocks, full Bilstein bump stop & dust boot kit & a set of Eibach "Pro-Kit" spring set.

I removed a set of original front & rear shocks from a bomb I have here.
The front struts were so original, they still had the factory paint markings on them!



So I cleaned them up & sent the front strut housings, top spring plates & rear top spring plates off to the powder coaters.

I received the suspension kit not long after & set about building up the shocks & fitting to the car. 
Long story short after some extensive research. I found the Aust. spec. cars had different front springs to the Euro. spec. cars. The Aust. version had springs straight up/down which sat inside a large top spring plate, where as the Euro. version have the top spring taper into a pigtail & sat outside a much smaller top spring plate. 

After a bit of research I found I could still order the Euro. spec. top spring plates from Vw Classic Part Dept. 

So once all the parts had arrived it was onto finishing up building the front struts & installing the suspension. 

Front strut comparison



Rear strut comparison



Yes it looks bloody ****house, but you know what....
I'm really past giving a **** these days. I don't race it enough to warrant having full race suspension fitted & killing my already crook back.

So.... Function over form. 

& with the new suspension, the ride is bloody mint!!!!!! It soaks up all the **** that our crap roads have to offer. Has quietened down inside with very few squeaks/rattles etc. & just an overall nice car to cruise in. It can still light the tyres up from 60 without issue & has no axle tramp, which is surprising.

But I'll have to refit the rear swaybar at some stage, as the dreaded Mk1 body roll has returned! haha

So its gone from being this low with the P-Slots




to.......


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Bugger all racing going on due to crappy weather, house, shed & car stuff. 

Hopefully out racing again later in the year if all the planets align. 

But for now, as my Mk1 is my only car & the rubbish pile has been building up, I needed a way of not only getting rid of it all, but also having to pick up larger type supplies etc., without having to borrow friends cars. 

I managed to score a genuine "steel bumper" mk1 tow bar from a friend & got straight into it. 

Rubbing it down & giving it a good thick coat of case paint.



Fitting it up & found for some strange reason the gooseneck facing down!! I couldn't figure out why. Its bloody way too thick to bend from anything a Mk1 could every tow!



So broke out the oxy, heated it up & straightened it up. Took bloody ages too. 





Another coat of paint, rigged up some trailer wiring & good to go!! 

Just need a half munched old tennis ball! 



heaving loaded trailer filled full! 
Not sure on the weight, but the mk1 still towed it ok without swaying around or getting nervous @100km/h & still managed to lite the tyres up Good fun. 






Now just waiting on some NOS rear mudflaps & try & source a set of genuine plain front mudflaps & we have full stock looking Mk1, but detuned to around 210hp. 
Good enough for me.

Also managed to source some tall ratio diff gears for my ultra long ongoing auto project. This will help it cruise alot better at hwy speeds & also work alot better with a turbo'd setup. 
Another piece of the puzzle. One day it will get done.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Slowly managing to find some factory fitted options for the "super stock" looks.

Managed to find some genuine NOS rear mudflaps with the blacked out emblems. 

I had my suspicions about how the factory ones were back in the day when Mk1's were brand new & having options fitted by the dealerships. 

I had suspected the rears were either a "blacked out" or "white highlighted" VW emblem's with the fronts being a plain style semi-stripped 
mudflap. 
I asked a friend about this & he confirmed my suspicions to be true, as he was an apprentice when the Mk1's were BRAND NEW!


Hopefully along my travels, I'll be able to source some factory plain versions for the front too.


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## vwjunkie747 (May 22, 2013)

Whats it like daily driving that thing with the locked Diff?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwjunkie747 said:


> Whats it like daily driving that thing with the locked Diff?


I had the locked diff. setup fitted for around a year as my daily. That was mainly hwy km's. 600+km a week. 

I only removed it, cause I came across a diesel 5spd & got sick of the 4000rpm cruise rpm. (2700rpm is much nicer, quieter & also getting 33+mpg with around 200hp) 

The locked diff wasn't too bad overall. Just a bit of a pain with parking & having to fight the wheel, both turning & unwinding to take city corners, roundabouts etc.

One thing that was sketchy was rolling into boost/power through a bend & the car wanted to go into oversteer & made it hard to unwind the wheel to correct it. 

I wouldn't recommend it unless your happy to have a fight with your car!



Hopefully later in the year I'll fit & test my next box, which will be a tall ratio auto filled with transaxle engineering internals & hopefully can get something like a peloquin 80% deal, as there is no lsd available for the 010 auto's.


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## vwjunkie747 (May 22, 2013)

I gotta say this thread has inspired me to try this for myself. I have 83 rabbit, US spec 1.7l cis lambda. Hopefully the old 1.7l will hold up as I have no idea on the mileage.
Cheers
Alex


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## madone (Sep 15, 2004)

Well that was worth the find of this thread and read. I have to say I do love a 8v turbo conversion for interesting than the modern engine conversions. Make me really want to try this setup on my mk1 cab. 

amazing thread, loving the details and the adventures your having in mk1 and down under too


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## Hoffa (Jun 7, 2001)

I remember reading this thread many years ago and just re-read it today. Learned a several things along the way that will come in handy (rod bolt stretch gauge!) now that I am working on my Callaway and have the engine apart. Thanks for sharing and in for any updates! 🍻


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