# Any Audiophiles?



## Acampbell128 (Sep 10, 2013)

Do we have any audiophiles in our group? Im in the build process of updating my audio system in my 2011 CC Sport, Looking at front stage options, My Amp Runs 4x200W @ 4ohm and 4x300w @ 2ohm, so plenty of power to spare. Im inbetween 3 way components and 2 ways. 
The 2 sets im considering:
3 way setup: Precision Power P65C3 http://precisionpower.com/store/prod...ts/p-65c3.html $239

Or 

2 Way Setup: Image Dynamics CTX65CS http://www.amazon.com/Ctx65cs-Dynami.../dp/B001NNOZNQ $179

Im looking for more audio fidelity/clarity versus SPL. But want something that can play pretty much anything i throw at it. Any suggestions or experience with these components. Is it worth it to spend the extra on the 3-ways?


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

Acampbell128 said:


> Do we have any audiophiles in our group? Im in the build process of updating my audio system in my 2011 CC Sport, Looking at front stage options, My Amp Runs 4x200W @ 4ohm and 4x300w @ 2ohm, so plenty of power to spare. Im inbetween 3 way components and 2 ways.
> The 2 sets im considering:
> 3 way setup: Precision Power P65C3 http://precisionpower.com/store/prod...ts/p-65c3.html $239
> 
> ...


Not bad but I hate passive crossovers. They're all garage and you can do a lot better with a DSP and some tuning. Have a look at http://www.minidsp.com/ and then I would get http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rs180-4-7-reference-woofer-4-ohm--295-374 for the doors and http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...stige-27tffnc/g-h1396-1-textile-dome-tweeter/ for tweeters.


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

If you want something a little cheaper for the midbass, look at http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co.../silver-flute-w17rc38-04-ohm-6-1/2-wool-cone/. I believe that is what I'll be buying when I upgrade my front stage.


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## Acampbell128 (Sep 10, 2013)

giantsnation said:


> Not bad but I hate passive crossovers. They're all garage and you can do a lot better with a DSP and some tuning. Have a look at http://www.minidsp.com/ and then I would get http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rs180-4-7-reference-woofer-4-ohm--295-374 for the doors and http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...stige-27tffnc/g-h1396-1-textile-dome-tweeter/ for tweeters.


Can you elaborate on the miniDsp. I looked into going active a few years ago, and all the DSP options at the time were very pricey Since the 2x4 is only 4 channel out would i need 2? one for left ( High and low) and one for right(high and Low) assuming im only doing front stage?


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

Acampbell128 said:


> Can you elaborate on the miniDsp. I looked into going active a few years ago, and all the DSP options at the time were very pricey Since the 2x4 is only 4 channel out would i need 2? one for left ( High and low) and one for right(high and Low) assuming im only doing front stage?


Nope just 1 dsp for the front sound stage - http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4 and the plug in http://www.minidsp.com/products/plugins/minidsp-2x4-kit-box-platforms/2way-advanced-detail - under $150. 2 in (use a cheap line out converter) and then 4 channel out (left midbass, left tweeter, right midbass, right tweeter).


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## Acampbell128 (Sep 10, 2013)

giantsnation said:


> Nope just 1 dsp for the front sound stage - http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4 and the plug in http://www.minidsp.com/products/plugins/minidsp-2x4-kit-box-platforms/2way-advanced-detail - under $150. 2 in (use a cheap line out converter) and then 4 channel out (left midbass, left tweeter, right midbass, right tweeter).


This is very tempting then.... I have a very cheap DSP kinda thing(sony DSP/OEM integration/6 CH line out converter) im using as a line out converter, however looking at this i would need to replace it with a standard LOC, as to not have to deal with defeating the sony EQ/TA. Or will that not make a difference? Also on the amp side, would i just run the HPF/LPF wide open?


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

Acampbell128 said:


> This is very tempting then.... I have a very cheap DSP kinda thing(sony DSP/OEM integration/6 CH line out converter) im using as a line out converter, however looking at this i would need to replace it with a standard LOC, as to not have to deal with defeating the sony EQ/TA. Or will that not make a difference? Also on the amp side, would i just run the HPF/LPF wide open?


I'm not too familiar with your sony so I can't answer that question. But yes I would just leave HPF/LPF wide open as these won't matter. You're basically using the amplifier to amplifier the signal you send it from the dsp.


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## Acampbell128 (Sep 10, 2013)

giantsnation said:


> If you want something a little cheaper for the midbass, look at http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co.../silver-flute-w17rc38-04-ohm-6-1/2-wool-cone/. I believe that is what I'll be buying when I upgrade my front stage.


Ive heard good things about these silver flutes...

How do you figure out crossover points, and what drivers will match with others?


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

Its a lot of trial and error but the minidsp's software will help. 

For your reading pleasure:
http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/sqsystem.html
http://xtremerevolution.net/the-crux-of-audiophile-sound-quality/#more-711 (Xtreme is a friend of mine from another forum and has built some killer systems on a budget)


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## kwalton (Sep 3, 2001)

Go active for sure!! I have been upgrading my audio in my gti over the last year and I am extremely happy with the outcome.

Mosconi 6to8 for the DSP
Focal K2 3 ways for the front stage 
Focal K2 2 ways for the rear stage
Focal 6 channel amps X 2 
Kenwood source unit and ipad mini in dash

Here's a link to the build
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7078409-More-audio-upgrades


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

Nice build! I'm surprised you upgraded your rear sound stage - most people, including myself, realize that after build a killer front sound stage, the rear is pointless (well for the driver and front passenger). I'm actually thinking about using the rear door panel locations for 2 6.5" subwoofers.


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## gunner1000 (Mar 26, 2014)

*What did you end up running?*

Hey man,
I am now looking to upgrade my cc. Both of the speakers you mentioned are on my list now. I was wondering which one you went with and how you liked it? I was leaning towards the image dynamics, because of sheer numbers of people recommending it.


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

gunner1000 said:


> Hey man,
> I am now looking to upgrade my cc. Both of the speakers you mentioned are on my list now. I was wondering which one you went with and how you liked it? I was leaning towards the image dynamics, because of sheer numbers of people recommending it.


I've good things about ID subwoofers but I have no experience with their raw speakers. I literally just received my speakers yesterday. I'm going with the silver flutes and seas prestige tweeters - best sq bang for buck. And I'll be going active with a mini dsp. 

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...stige-27tffnc/g-h1396-1-textile-dome-tweeter/
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co.../silver-flute-w17rc38-04-ohm-6-1/2-wool-cone/


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## gunner1000 (Mar 26, 2014)

giantsnation said:


> I've good things about ID subwoofers but I have no experience with their raw speakers. I literally just received my speakers yesterday. I'm going with the silver flutes and seas prestige tweeters - best sq bang for buck. And I'll be going active with a mini dsp.
> 
> http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...stige-27tffnc/g-h1396-1-textile-dome-tweeter/
> http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co.../silver-flute-w17rc38-04-ohm-6-1/2-wool-cone/


Gotcha man. Those look really good. I am really trying to run them passive for now, because of money. I want to run a set of nice components in front and some coaxials in back. My budget is 500 for speakers. And i will be running an amp that pushes 125 x4 @ 4 ohms. Any recommendations?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

Put your money towards the front sound stage - the rear is pointless. If you have the amp already, my set up would only cost you ~$300.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

giantsnation said:


> Nice build! I'm surprised you upgraded your rear sound stage - most people, including myself, realize that after build a killer front sound stage, the rear is pointless (well for the driver and front passenger). I'm actually thinking about using the rear door panel locations for 2 6.5" subwoofers.


After 15 years of spirited use, one of my 6.5" Infinity coaxials in my rear doors is acting up at high bass volume (more or less "blown"). I am thinking about replacing them with subwoofers just as you are. I figure with some decent MDF rings and deadening in the doors it might turn out halfway decent. Probably won't be "impressive", but certainly much better than blown coaxials.

Any advice? And/or let me know how your rear door sub install works out.

Other relevant data:
99 Passat
Infinity Kappa 5.5 separates in stock front locations (I won't pretend to call it "Front Stage")
5ch Infinity amp 50x4 + 200 (bridgable) with integrated crossover.


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

Sounds good - I'm doing the front sound stage next weekend so I'll have a better idea of what the door panels could handle.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

giantsnation said:


> Sounds good - I'm doing the front sound stage next weekend so I'll have a better idea of what the door panels could handle.


:thumbup:

Good luck and let us know how it goes


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

Feel free to sticky - http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7155664-SQ-Car-Audio-Build


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## Acampbell128 (Sep 10, 2013)

gunner1000 said:


> Hey man,
> I am now looking to upgrade my cc. Both of the speakers you mentioned are on my list now. I was wondering which one you went with and how you liked it? I was leaning towards the image dynamics, because of sheer numbers of people recommending it.


I ordered a set of the ID ctx65s first. I ended up having to send them back. One of the baskets on the mid driver was visibly bent. That put a bad taste in my mouth. I ended up with JBL P660C and have been extremely impressed. I found them for under $100. The tweeters are warm sounding and not shrill. The mids are good at best. For the price I'm beyond happy. I broke down and ordered a minidsp 2x4 and a minidc. Although, its been sitting on my desk at work. I bought the 2 way and 2.1 advance plugins but honestly have no idea where to start. I did prep for the minidsp install by mounting my passive crossovers in the trunk.


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

Acampbell128 said:


> I ordered a set of the ID ctx65s first. I ended up having to send them back. One of the baskets on the mid driver was visibly bent. That put a bad taste in my mouth. I ended up with JBL P660C and have been extremely impressed. I found them for under $100. The tweeters are warm sounding and not shrill. The mids are good at best. For the price I'm beyond happy. I broke down and ordered a minidsp 2x4 and a minidc. Although, its been sitting on my desk at work. I bought the 2 way and 2.1 advance plugins but honestly have no idea where to start. I did prep for the minidsp install by mounting my passive crossovers in the trunk.


So you want to use the miniDSP with the JBL P660C? That doesn't make much sense - I'd would suggest buying individual speaker drivers such as the silver flutes for mids and SEAS prestige for tweeters (these things are sick).


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## 04lss (Jan 5, 2015)

Honestly if I had the money I would go for the focal poly glass series, I had some of the integration series in a previous car, and they were fantastic.


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## Gyseln (Dec 27, 2014)

I went with the P660C and a Rockford Fosgate PBR300X2 amplifier with Punch Remote EQ. The bass is impressively improved over stock to where I now get annoying rattles in the doors (may need Dynomat) when listening to Daft Punk, and this is with the bass gain set to about +12 (out of 18) with the remote EQ. I think it could still sound better overall if the head unit could be de-EQd, but I don't know if that exists via VCDS and I don't want to spend money on a DSP for my little commuter.


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

Gyseln said:


> I went with the P660C and a Rockford Fosgate PBR300X2 amplifier with Punch Remote EQ. The bass is impressively improved over stock to where I now get annoying rattles in the doors (may need Dynomat) when listening to Daft Punk, and this is with the bass gain set to about +12 (out of 18) with the remote EQ. I think it could still sound better overall if the head unit could be de-EQd, but I don't know if that exists via VCDS and I don't want to spend money on a DSP for my little commuter.


*PLEASE DO NOT USE DYNOMAT* Its absolute junk that is overpriced and does not work. Check this out http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/cld-tiles. So much better - I used 5 tiles on each of my doors and its dead silent.


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

04lss said:


> Honestly if I had the money I would go for the focal poly glass series, I had some of the integration series in a previous car, and they were fantastic.


I can guarantee my budget build sounds 10x better than those and cost almost half as much. Just sayin - don't be a slave to the big box.


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## Gyseln (Dec 27, 2014)

giantsnation said:


> *PLEASE DO NOT USE DYNOMAT* Its absolute junk that is overpriced and does not work. Check this out http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/cld-tiles. So much better - I used 5 tiles on each of my doors and its dead silent.


Thanks for the tip. I will check this out and see what it can do for me. :thumbup:


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## macming (May 14, 2015)

04lss said:


> Honestly if I had the money I would go for the focal poly glass series, I had some of the integration series in a previous car, and they were fantastic.





giantsnation said:


> I can guarantee my budget build sounds 10x better than those and cost almost half as much. Just sayin - don't be a slave to the big box.


Sound quality is most in the install and tuning. Having said that, starting with good speakers won't hurt provided you are not taking shortcuts with your installation. 

I had a set of Focal K2Ps in my last car and I'm about to throw a set of Focal Utopia Be 3 ways in my JSW. Can't wait since I sound deadened the entire car. The doors will be also treated with mass loaded vinyl (MLV). I'm going to have a shop handle speaker install and initial tuning with a Mosconi 6to8 DSP. 

The sound system should turn out pretty good :laugh:


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## kanyedian (May 28, 2015)

I need King Kong in my trunk!!!


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

kanyedian said:


> I need King Kong in my trunk!!!


What?


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## Acampbell128 (Sep 10, 2013)

I'm double posting this here also just in case anyone has something to add. "What filter types are you using. I finally got around to fiddling with my 2x4. And yes I'm using them on the JBL components. I was able to get much better sound from the minidsp then I was with the passive crossovers. I'm still tweaking it and probably won't stop anytime soon. I'm currently running my mids with a lpf of 2k LR 48db/oct, HPF of 70 with the same LR 48db. Then the tweets are LPF bypassed and HPF at 1900 with BW 48db filter. I'm not sure if I'm anywhere near correct on crossover settings but it sounds better."

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## Non_Affiliated (Feb 12, 2002)

I have been around the car audio scene for some time, but what is this 2x4 u speak of. 
I just have my old school ppi Par-245 running into my OMX-432. 

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## Acampbell128 (Sep 10, 2013)

Its a sound processor. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/assembled-crossovers/minidsp-2x4-digital-signal-processor/

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## Non_Affiliated (Feb 12, 2002)

Sorry tapatalk shot me to the end of the thread that was cross posted, so I missed all the back story on this post.

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