# Launch control problem after installing APR DSG tune on a 16' S3



## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

Folks,

I am not here to bash nor to star a vendor/tuner war. Today I got my 16' S3 DSG tuned (APR DSG tune), previously I had their stage I engine tune (91oct file) and I have been very happy. I also received the newest v2.2 software revision. 

Tonite I tested the launch control and it is giving me repetitive issues. The car launches very hard at only 4000 rpm (lowest setting) but as soon as you are rolling from a dead stop not even 15-20 feet the car drops the rpm and falls on its face. Folks, this is the same feeling when you launch your AWD WRX, Evo , R32 or STI agressively and then bogs down, it feels the same way. 

I did a back to back 4 consecutive launches with a couple of minutes cool down and the result were the same:

- The engine would rev nicely to 4k and as soon as you let go the car spins all 4 very hard but immediately the rpms just drop on its face (below 2000rpm) and the car feels like a hard bog down/stall. The sensation is very unpleasant because it feels as if you hit fuel cut off or if the engine hits some limiter that causes the rpm to drop way below its range . It feels similar to when you downshift from 5th to second on a manual car, that initial stall but instead of having the rpms high the engine in this case drops the rpms extremely low. 

On a good note, the car shifts very fast when you are driving half throttle, the shifts appears on the dash on S and D mode and the car can build some serious rpms for launch control. I am really hoping to get this issue resolve before this Saturday, I was eager to take it to the dragstrip to test the new DSG software. I was also going to get the same DSG tune for my wife but I am now hesitant. Wish me luck and stay "tune".
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*New updates from 18 and 19 Feb:*

*18 Feb* So I have an updated folks. I took the car back to my local tuner jut to give another try and review the files just in case we missed anything. It seems like I had the 3000(min) 4000 rpm (mid) 5000 rpm (max) when I encountered the issues.

We went and put the 3000 (Min) 3500 (mid) 4000 rpm(max) DSG software in and it seems like it fixed the stalling issue described on page one. We went for a few launches and the 3000 and 3500rpms are absolutely unusable, it makes no difference what so ever, it is unnoticeable. We tried the 4000 rpm max but it will never launch aggressively, it launches OK but it doesn't feel better than the stock. We couldn't even manage to spin the tires.

Went back and changed the map again to a 3000(min) 3750(mid) 4500rpm (max), it seems a little more aggressive, barely spins tires. I am going to the dragstrip tomorrow to test it.

*19 Feb* On a different note, I was driving today at 30mph at work and all the sudden the car lost power and started downshifting. I hit the gas and it slowed down even more, it wouldn't accelerate at all, it went from 30mph to like 8 or 10mph. I kept hearing a tiny "click" it sounded just like a relay around the dashboard area (below the steering). This little "clicking" noise was going on every couple of seconds.

I turned the hazard lights on and I managed to drive like half a mile like that to work. I can't make assumption, I can't say that APR tune is causing it because it would be unfair to claim that without checking it but all this mess happened after I installed the DSG tune. Again, I can't prove anything.

*(20 Feb)* I will take the car to the track (dragstrip), a "modern and innovative" DSG tune should be able to improve my 60' and perhaps my ET. Time will tell.. If this doesn't work I can't say that I haven't tried.


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## roadrunner_oz (Jul 30, 2015)

Sounds like DSG protection kicking in. I never tried LC since I got the APR DSG 4 months ago and have since swapped to UniTronic's DSG tune. Much happier!

See my posts here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...e-benefits&p=93283673&viewfull=1#post93283673
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...UNI-tronic&p=93283689&viewfull=1#post93283689

Hope that you get it sorted


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## DVIPER11 (Nov 11, 2007)

I'm having the same issues....Definitely unpleasant feeling when you are launching hard and one second later the rpms drop fast and then begin to rev up again. Its like a whiplash! hopefully APR can chime in. I'm running Stage I 93 octane (not v2.2) with DSG tune.


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## drquibley (Apr 11, 2015)

ugh.. I have been eyeing the DSG tune for like 8 months.. way before the bricking debacle... But these comments and your posts roadrunner... have made me very hesitant. Guys, did the transmission work better in everything except the launch? The main thing I want the most is the manual shift delay reduction. In your opinions, does the software accomplish that? Obviously, if drive mode is awful though, id probably pass.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

DVIPER11 said:


> I'm having the same issues....Definitely unpleasant feeling when you are launching hard and one second later the rpms drop fast and then begin to rev up again. Its like a whiplash! hopefully APR can chime in. I'm running Stage I 93 octane (not v2.2) with DSG tune.


Have you contacted your tuner yet? I did, they are trying to get a hold of Arin. Hopefully it can be solved quickly.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

drquibley said:


> ugh.. I have been eyeing the DSG tune for like 8 months.. way before the bricking debacle... But these comments and your posts roadrunner... have made me very hesitant. Guys, did the transmission work better in everything except the launch? The main thing I want the most is the manual shift delay reduction. In your opinions, does the software accomplish that? Obviously, if drive mode is awful though, id probably pass.


With a proper launch control installed the car has no hesitation accelerating from a dead stop as long as the launch control works properly.


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## roadrunner_oz (Jul 30, 2015)

drquibley said:


> ugh.. I have been eyeing the DSG tune for like 8 months.. way before the bricking debacle... But these comments and your posts roadrunner... have made me very hesitant. Guys, did the transmission work better in everything except the launch? The main thing I want the most is the manual shift delay reduction. In your opinions, does the software accomplish that? Obviously, if drive mode is awful though, id probably pass.


TBH the UniTronic is better calibrated. Smoother shifts, better for everyday driving and anticipation of gear selection, none of those "WTF is this DSG doing" moments.


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## drquibley (Apr 11, 2015)

roadrunner_oz said:


> TBH the UniTronic is better calibrated. Smoother shifts, better for everyday driving and anticipation of gear selection, none of those "WTF is this DSG doing" moments.


So so you have an APR ECU tune with a Unitronic TCU? Any issues with that setup?


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## roadrunner_oz (Jul 30, 2015)

drquibley said:


> So so you have an APR ECU tune with a Unitronic TCU? Any issues with that setup?


No I switch both. Had no issue with the APR S1, but wanted UniTronic combo with higher HP/lower torque


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## DVIPER11 (Nov 11, 2007)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> Have you contacted your tuner yet? I did, they are trying to get a hold of Arin. Hopefully it can be solved quickly.


I figured that because it was inconsistent that poor traction/ road surface was to blame. Perhaps its a built in safety mechanism to avoid massive wheelspin when putting so much extra power down to prevent powertrain damage? Hopefully your tuner and/or Arin will chime in. I'm not too concerned as I do not launch the car regularly and also I'm still waiting for V2.3 and TCU update.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

Well.. I thought about it and I will be removing the APR DSG tune. The tuner suggested trying at 5000rpms which I see no point of testing it. Why? I want to use primarily the 4000 rpms launch and it doesn't work. This tune is pricey to begin with. Good luck to you guys with whatever you choose to use.:beer:


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> Well.. I thought about it and I will be removing the APR DSG tune. The tuner suggested trying at 5000rpms which I see no point of testing it. Why? I want to use primarily the 4000 rpms launch and it doesn't work. This tune is pricey to begin with. Good luck to you guys with whatever you choose to use.:beer:


Actually 4k is high without sticky tires and a good surface. 5k is downright nuts.

We usually suggest about 3500 as a good medium.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

Sean,

Believe me, 4000rpms is already a very hard launch, it spins all 4 tires violently. I might ask the shop to reduce the entire launch sequence to a lesser range and see.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

So I have an updated folks. I took the car back to my local tuner jut to give another try and review the files just in case we missed anything. It seems like I had the 3000(min) 4000 rpm (mid) 5000 rpm (max) when I encountered the issues.

We went and put the 3000(Min) 3500(mid) 4000 rpm(max) DSG software in and it seesm like it fixed the stalling issue described on page one. We went for a few launches and the 3000 and 3500rpms are absolutely unusable, it makes no difference what so ever, it is unnoticeable. We tried the 4000 rpm max but it will never launch aggressively, it launches OK but it doesn't feel better than the stock. We couldn't even manage to spin the tires.

Went back and change the map again to a 3000(min) 3750(mid) 4500rpm (max), it seems a little more aggressive, barely spins tires. I am goig to the dragstrip tomorrow to test it.

On a different note, I was driving today at 30mph at work and all the sudden the car lose power and started downshifting. I hit the gas and it slowed down even more, it would accelerate at all, it went from 30mph to like 8 or 10mph. I kept hearing a tiny "click" it sounded just like a relay around the dashboard area(below the steering).

I turned the hazard lights and I managed to drive like half a mile like that to work. I can't make assumption, I can't say that APR tune is causing it because it would be unfair to claim that without checking it but all this mess happened after I installed the DSG tune. Again, I can't prove anything.

I will take the car to the track(dragstrip), a "modern and innovative" DSG tune should be able to improve my 60' and perhaps my ET. Time will tell.. If this doesn't work I can't say that I haven't tried.


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## superwtc (Feb 19, 2006)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> So I have an updated folks. I took the car back to my local tuner jut to give another try and review the files just in case we missed anything. It seems like I had the 3000(min) 4000 rpm (mid) 5000 rpm (max) when I encountered the issues.
> 
> We went and put the 3000(Min) 3500(mid) 4000 rpm(max) DSG software in and it seesm like it fixed the stalling issue described on page one. We went for a few launches and the 3000 and 3500rpms are absolutely unusable, it makes no difference what so ever, it is unnoticeable. We tried the 4000 rpm max but it will never launch aggressively, it launches OK but it doesn't feel better than the stock. We couldn't even manage to spin the tires.
> 
> ...


Yikes! 

I have my launch set for 5k but never used it yet, more so of fearing of something breaking. But I did recently notice 1-2-3 shifts the dsg doesn't shift and hits limiter. I have friends asking me how is that possible considering the car isn't manual. Will also try reflash the TCU and see if anything was missed. 

Keep us posted on your drag strip testing.


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## will13k7 (Aug 30, 2015)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> The car launches very hard at only 4000 rpm...





1998GTIVR6 said:


> We tried the 4000 rpm max but it will never launch aggressively, it launches OK...


First, @4000 rpm, you say it launches hard, later, still @4000rpm you say its not aggressive. It seems like the road surface and weather was the only difference here? Is it still bogging for you?

[email protected]/[email protected], is it normal for the car to bog down like the OP indicates with certain road conditions, or is there a problem that needs to get fixed? Folks thinking about getting a TCU want to know!


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

will13k7 said:


> First, @4000 rpm, you say it launches hard, later, still @4000rpm you say its not aggressive. It seems like the road surface and weather was the only difference here? Is it still bogging for you?
> 
> [email protected]/[email protected], is it normal for the car to bog down like the OP indicates with certain road conditions, or is there a problem that needs to get fixed? Folks thinking about getting a TCU want to know!


The 4000 rpms launches were two completely different launch control set ups or profiles if you want to call it that way. If you look at the APR RPMS charts on the link(I am attaching it below), you will find out that 4000 rpms are used on multiple launch profiles. The APR tuner/vendor/Authorized dealer rode with me while we tried 2 different set ups/profiles. 

The biggest update that I can provide today is that I am happy to announce that the bog down has been eliminated. I am currently and finally using the 3000(min) 3750 mid) and 4500rpm (max) which seems to be the sweet spot. I tried the 3750rpm and it works marvelous but the 4500rpm max is just spot on. I am keeping it this way. I am not having the terrible bog downs anymore and the car is launching very well(more aggressive than stock) but not crazy hard, enough to spin tires for 5-8 feet.

If someone is undecided about what launch control to use they should consider my feedback. I can positively say that I have tried 3 out of 7 total available set ups.

Link: http://www.goapr.com/products/tcu_upgrade_dq250_mqb.html


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## will13k7 (Aug 30, 2015)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> The 4000 rpms launches were two completely different launch control set ups or profiles if you want to call it that way. If you look at the APR RPMS charts on the link(I am attaching it below), you will find out that 4000 rpms are used on multiple launch profiles. The APR tuner/vendor/Authorized dealer rode with me while we tried 2 different set ups/profiles.


So you're saying 4K in one set of launch RPMS (4,000 3,500 3,000) behaves differently in another set of launch RPMS (5,000 4,000 3,000)? Wouldn't have expected that, but I guess they could program it that way.



1998GTIVR6 said:


> The biggest update that I can provide today is that I am happy to announce that the bog down has been eliminated. I am currently and finally using the 3000(min) 3750 mid) and 4500rpm (max) which seems to be the sweet spot. I tried the 3750rpm and it works marvelous but the 4500rpm max is just spot on. I am keeping it this way. I am not having the terrible bog downs anymore and the car is launching very well(more aggressive than stock) but not crazy hard, enough to spin tires for 5-8 feet.


Awesome! Thanks for sharing this! Glad you guys found a sweet spot.

I did see this on APR's website:



APR said:


> Recommendation: When using launch control, excessive wheel spin will not improve acceleration and may cause undesirable behavior.


"undesirable behavior" is a bit vague, I wonder if it includes bogging down. lol.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

Folks,

I wish everyone the best of luck with your APR DSG tunes. I am the OP and after today I am severing ties with the APR DSG tune products.. there are no more chances for me.
I had my car re-re-re-re-re tune for DSG(that is 5 tries) and I am at a point where it is worst than stock.(read on page one)

Today I got the V2.0.1 DSG tune which is the most current version. I went and I tried 6 launches in which 4 came out terrible and with worst symptoms than from the very first DSG tune(look at page one). In addition to the initial symptoms (look at page one), I am getting the "overheat temp change your driving style message" . The car is also jumping into second gear right after a very bad wheelhop..


I just can't be the guinea pig for a product that is not ready for the market. Before I did this new revision V2.0.1 my car as running well with launch control, now is back to square one with more problems. APR is not a bad company, their APR tunes are wonderful on my Audis but I have had so many issue since I installed the DSG tune that is time for me to stay away. Perhaps APR will correct the glitches in the near future, I wish them luck.


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## PRGRMMR (Feb 9, 2016)

That's unfortunate :/ hopefully you have an APR dealer close, I couldn't imagine having to travel to get tuned that many times. That would end up being 10hr round trips for me if I was in your situation.

Are you going to go with another DSG tune like Unitronic or UM?


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

PRGRMMR said:


> That's unfortunate :/ hopefully you have an APR dealer close, I couldn't imagine having to travel to get tuned that many times. That would end up being 10hr round trips for me if I was in your situation.
> 
> Are you going to go with another DSG tune like Unitronic or UM?


Well, I need to clarify that the "re-re-re-re-retunes" were actually the first DSG tune then having to go back and try 3 different launch profiles (like re-tuning it 3 times), then I got the V2.0.1. I am very likely driving it stock DSG oem factory for a while and I will keep reading reviews.


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## roadrunner_oz (Jul 30, 2015)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> Well, I need to clarify that the "re-re-re-re-retunes" were actually the first DSG tune then having to go back and try 3 different launch profiles (like re-tuning it 3 times), then I got the V2.0.1. I am very likely driving it stock DSG oem factory for a while and I will keep reading reviews.


Just get UniTronic's DSG. That's what I did


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

1998GTIVR6, have you checked your fluid levels? If they are low, you'll have issues.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

Honestly I haven't checked it... the car has only 4,200 miles, I wouldn't think it would have loss any fluid. I am frustrated because if you read my original post it seems like my car was finally running well and without any issues before this latest V 2.0.1 .


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## BlackNight (Sep 22, 1999)

I have the DSG 2.0.1 on my S3

It works great. My launch control is awesome. I can't wait for summer to see how it will react to warmer temps.

Its been 36 - 42F here in Anchorage, Ak. I try to play when I can find dry pavement.

Lee


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> Honestly I haven't checked it... the car has only 4,200 miles, I wouldn't think it would have loss any fluid. I am frustrated because if you read my original post it seems like my car was finally running well and without any issues before this latest V 2.0.1 .


There were reports of underfills from the factory.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

Thanks!! I have been spending some time (the last couple of hours) trying to see if I can find the quick way to check the DSG levels.


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## will13k7 (Aug 30, 2015)

For fun I did a 3000 rpm launch on a wet road earlier today (very light rain), I felt about a half wheel turn of slippage with all 4 wheels and it launched great, I got that lose your stomach feeling. I have ecu stage2 v2.2, tcu tune v2.0.1, and the OEM conti summer tires. 

I went with 3000, 3250, and 3500 since I don't want to murder my DSG. I think Audi sets a limit for the number of launches since they think the DSG can't take too much abuse and they don't want to cover broken DSG's under warranty due to over usage of launch control.

When the rain stops and the roads dry up, I'm going to give the other launch RPMS a shot.

hopefully someone can figure out what's going in with your setup. :beer:


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

^^ That launch control set up is very low(my opinion). I am going to have a shop check my DSG fluid level. I have been looking videos on line and it seems like I have to remove the stupid plug from the bottom and check that plastic cone or whatever. I wish it was just as simple as pulling a dipstick and filling in from the same dipstick spot.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> Honestly I haven't checked it... the car has only 4,200 miles, I wouldn't think it would have loss any fluid.


I wouldn't think so either. However, what we found surprising were all the reports of low fluid levels on completely untouched cars. Some customers / shops / dealerships were reporting fluid levels "a couple bottles low" in some cases. I'd have this checked out, and topped up if it happens to be the case.


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## will13k7 (Aug 30, 2015)

FWIW here's 3250 for me, wheels slipping a bit and slipped into second gear, but quattro was doing its thing.


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## alberto59 (May 20, 2014)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> Honestly I haven't checked it... the car has only 4,200 miles, I wouldn't think it would have loss any fluid. I am frustrated because if you read my original post it seems like my car was finally running well and without any issues before this latest V 2.0.1 .



Hello, Plis check your DSG fluid, my car just have 1900 kms... And it come with the dsg fluid low and after that my overheating problems and dsg problem dissapear, my dsg was with 9 ounces low... I know it is not to much... But the dsg is too sensitive...

Thanks! Now im very happy with my tune, By the way i have the 300 400 and 5000 launch, and i think 5000 is too agresive i prefer launch my car in 4000 rpms


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## alberto59 (May 20, 2014)

alberto59 said:


> Hello, Plis check your DSG fluid, my car just have 1900 kms... And it come with the dsg fluid low and after that my overheating problems and dsg problem dissapear, my dsg was with 9 ounces low... I know it is not to much... But the dsg is too sensitive...
> 
> Thanks! Now im very happy with my tune, By the way i have the 300 400 and 5000 launch, and i think 5000 is too agresive i prefer launch my car in 4000 rpms




By the way my car is 2016


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