# Vent To Atmosphere Catch Can - Killing "The Stink"



## SpeedVision (Jul 7, 2008)

*Vent To Atmosphere Catch Can - Killing "The Stink" - Updated - Pressure Test*

I've had a recirculation type catch can on my car since the car had 5,000 miles (currently 18k). The recirculation type catch can does a good job of getting rid of the condensed (liquid) water, fuel and oil in the PCV system, but it does VERY little for the "smoke like" vapors produced by the FSI. Since the recirculation system will push the smoke back into the intake, some of the vapors will lead to the intake valve build up we are all trying to avoid.
Enter the Vent to atmosphere (VTA) concept. Knowing how putrid and fowl the "can juice" comes out, I knew the smoke couldn't smell any better. The question on everyone's mind is - how bad does it smell? In short, and in my opinion, BAD! To me, it smells like a cross between burning radiator fluid and a grease fire at KFC... 
Unfortunately, the ideal location (passenger front corner of the engine bay) is also a bad spot for the fumes to make their way into the fresh air inlet for the cabin. For those that are smart enough to live in warmer climates, roll the windows down, open the sunroof and the smell goes away as quickly as it comes. Also, at speed, the stink is nonexistent, this is only an issue when idling or moving slowly for extended periods. With a long, cold winter coming open windows or heat in recirc mode really isn't an option.
I don't intend to make this an advertisement for a particular brand, but I choose to upgrade original can to a Eurojet VTA system. Since all VTA's behave similarly, I'll let you decide what brand you prefer to choose. With that said, the EJ system does have a few features that make plumbing the stink away more feasible. Since their can is a box, the volume is very good and all plumbing is on top of the box. They have a total of 2 inlets and 1 outlet and the can maintains a low profile allowing for 90 degree AN fittings to fit on top of the can without interfering with the hood closing. All 3 "ports" can accept AN fittings with the appropriate adapter.
So how do you kill 95% of the stink? I simply added another AN fitting to the can outlet (where the breather filter goes) and relocated the can exhaust fumes to the other side of the engine bay into the void behind the fog light on the drivers side.
With this setup, I can sit and idle for a minute or two and barely smell any trace of smoke. Where before, after a short light (windows up, heat on, raining like hell) I felt like I was in a gas chamber. You need about 4 feet of hose and you have to be careful not to have any of the hose interfere with the cooling fans. I attached the breather filter to the end of the hose to keep the bugs out.
I use the stock engine cover (old man), but this should work fine with aftermarket CAI's as long as you have a path for the hose to follow into the space behind the bumper. Also, at idle, some of the open CAI systems (Neuspeed) will actually suck up the trace amounts of smoke at idle, further reducing the chance for stink after extended stationary periods. Once you get moving, I'm sure the smoke gets dissipated out the fender well, etc.
I'll post a few pictures tonight as long as nobody gives me grief for using clear ice maker water line.







Hey, it was an experiment. I'm curious to see how much smoke will condense in the line, so I'll keep it on for a few weeks as long as it doesn't show any heat stress. It's all good. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://is.rely.net/2-64-38733-l-006e1ozlIle2NBIL2h5Dw.gif" BORDER="0"> 









































_Modified by SpeedVision at 9:23 PM 10-27-2009_


_Modified by SpeedVision at 10:51 PM 11-20-2009_


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## BSH Speedshop (Apr 22, 2009)

*Re: Vent To Atmosphere Catch Can - Killing "The Stink" (SpeedVision)*

What size line are you running off the can?


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## SpeedVision (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: Vent To Atmosphere Catch Can - Killing "The Stink" (BSH Speedshop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BSH Speedshop* »_What size line are you running off the can? 

Ok, more like industrial strength icemaker tubing...








1/2" id, same dimensions as "supplied" hose...


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Attach a long heater hose to that other fitting and run it under the car behind the front passenger side wheel. Point the hose towards the back of the car.


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## SpeedVision (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (LEWXCORE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LEWXCORE* »_Attach a long heater hose to that other fitting and run it under the car behind the front passenger side wheel. Point the hose towards the back of the car.

Tried that I think... I ran a hose straight back and down though the opening in the firewall in the same vicinity, but not close to, the downpipe. This has potential, but the proper hose I used wasn't long enough and I ended up with only a small decrease in the stink. I wasn't about to use cheap hose down by all the heat. Also, I wouldn't use a K&N style breather down there so I was looked into a sintered muffler instead...


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## BSH Speedshop (Apr 22, 2009)

*Re: Vent To Atmosphere Catch Can - Killing "The Stink" (SpeedVision)*

Thanks for answering my question. Before I say what Im going too... Precursor: this is not meant to rain on your parade or be doom and gloom, just some very key points you will want to know about this setup.
Be careful with this setup. VTA catch cans function much differently then a recirc catch can. The recircs have a vacuum assist pulling the pressure out of the crank case. VTA setups rely on the pressure differential between the crank case and the atmoshphere to vent its gasses. For this to work properly you want a VERY large surface area too achieve proper and maximum performance from your setup. When we see cans coming out with tiny filters stuck on them it makes me cringe as that is flat out NOT how these systems work properly. 
Under no circumstance would I suggest running anything smaller then a 1.5" line or filter on any single element VTA setup. This is why we use twin -10 lines on our VTA setups. You might get away with something smaller, but understand you should have the absolute largest area you can possibly have for the system to work omptimally. 


_Modified by BSH Speedshop at 5:35 PM 10-27-2009_


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## SpeedVision (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: Vent To Atmosphere Catch Can - Killing "The Stink" (BSH Speedshop)*

Yes, "optimal" and "livable" are mutually exclusive, IMO. I think the stink will be less tolerable when the novelty of the concept wears off. Optimal is also somewhat subjective unless there are hard numbers to back up your claim. In theroy, I understand what you're saying; Flow, velocity, pressure, etc. are all related and bigger isn't always better nor is restriction beneficial relative to passive flow.
Fact is that I can neither approve or reject your claims without data that I don't think I'll be able to get my hands on (and give it to someone that can explain it to me, ttt). For now, I'll have to settle on monitoring can colletion rates and oil consumption.


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## BSH Speedshop (Apr 22, 2009)

*Re: Vent To Atmosphere Catch Can - Killing "The Stink" (SpeedVision)*

Spend a day at the track and you will get all the data you need. Its what works and is used by all real race teams and race cars. I know your car isn't a race car but you are implementing race car technology. If your collecting a lot in your vta can it isn't working right. Its supposed to vent it all while still in vapor form and catch what gets knocked out by a splash baffle, not hold the pressure untill it seperates.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Vent To Atmosphere Catch Can - Killing "The Stink" (SpeedVision)*

Nice choice on the can and interesting concept with your experiment. I like it when guys take things into their own hands and look for solutions. Keep us updated with your findings. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ssunnylee24 (Feb 7, 2009)

*Re: Vent To Atmosphere Catch Can - Killing "The Stink" (SpeedVision)*

I was thinking about doing something similar to this.
I didn't mind the smell much but I hated the fact something was smoking under my hood.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

damnit, someone beat me to it. The smell isnt a concern for me at all, but i wanted to work something up so my passengers or other car owners could benefit from.
i was thinking about running the line towards the rear of the engine bay and down... basically somewhere close to my downpipe, or my control arm. I know for a face that the gases come out very fast at RPMS other than idle, so i have zero doubt that there is enough pressure in the system to push it all the way out still, plus, since it will be running near the engine and exhaust, the temps inside will stay hot enough to allow the gas to flow at very high rates of speed, whether its hot or cold out.
one question though, where did u get that same black AN fitting? i cant find straight black ones. just the red and blue ones at the local auto parts stores.


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## SpeedVision (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_
i was thinking about running the line towards the rear of the engine bay and down... basically somewhere close to my downpipe, or my control arm. I know for a face that the gases come out very fast at RPMS other than idle, so i have zero doubt that there is enough pressure in the system to push it all the way out still, plus, since it will be running near the engine and exhaust, the temps inside will stay hot enough to allow the gas to flow at very high rates of speed, whether its hot or cold out.
one question though, where did u get that same black AN fitting? i cant find straight black ones. just the red and blue ones at the local auto parts stores.


Yes, when I get the proper hose, I will probably run the line back down my the dp as I mentioned earlier (for a more complete test, the hose I used before was only about 2 feet long). I like the idea of keeping the smoke as far out of the engine bay as possible. Also, if a little smoke condenses in the line, any residual dripping will go under the car vs. in the bumper... However, as you noted, the heat from the engine/exhaust should keep everything nice and warm and flowing well. My current setup would be my second choice and a very acceptable backup location.
Jegs.com is your friend for the AN fittings in black. I'm just not sure how their size specifications correlate to the hose. Seems metric, but I'm not sure... -6,-8,-10???


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## SpeedVision (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: Vent To Atmosphere Catch Can - Killing "The Stink" (BSH Speedshop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BSH Speedshop* »_Spend a day at the track and you will get all the data you need. Its what works and is used by all real race teams and race cars. I know your car isn't a race car but you are implementing race car technology. If your collecting a lot in your vta can it isn't working right. Its supposed to vent it all while still in vapor form and catch what gets knocked out by a splash baffle, not hold the pressure untill it seperates. 

That would require me to pretend to be something that I'm not - a "racer". Me, like 90% of the people on this forum are simply trying to make the best of what we have to work with and the cards dealt to us with the FSI and emmissions requirements. 
Also, I think you underestimate how climate impacts these engines (still). I would expect the collection rates to vary with how hard the car is driven (track) and the weather conditions. Sorry, but 10% humidity and 112 degrees F ambient temperatures certainly aren't ideal circumstances for the vapors to condense. Now, try 30 degrees F and 45% humidity and you have a different story. That's why I can literally go an entire summer without emptying a can, but I couldn't go more than a a week with my old, low volume, setup.
I'm not done testing and I have a few tricks







up my sleeve. I'll report back with my findings. Thanks.


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## StuMacLean (Aug 9, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (SpeedVision)*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN_fitting
AN fittings appear to be based on English measurements. You probably need a -8.


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (StuMacLean)*

we use -10 fittings and 5/8" ID hose. That's all you need!


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## Uber-A3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

This post is not to question anybody intelligence or start a war but,
How do you think that this can is working the same with this hose setup as it would with the filter right on the lid? You have increased the volume, length and pressure needed to vent to the atmosphere. It seems like a much larger hose is needed to keep the can working as it should. With only differential pressure venting the can you have made this setup less than optimal. Yeah it might work but it is working well enough? probably not and in fact you may be better off just leaving it stock if the can isn't venting. While it's a good idea I just think that you should keep on eye on it and be willing to change or scrap the idea if it needs be. Keep us updated.


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## SpeedVision (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Uber-A3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Uber-A3* »_This post is not to question anybody intelligence or start a war but,
How do you think that this can is working the same with this hose setup as it would with the filter right on the lid? You have increased the volume, length and pressure needed to vent to the atmosphere. It seems like a much larger hose is needed to keep the can working as it should. With only differential pressure venting the can you have made this setup less than optimal. Yeah it might work but it is working well enough? probably not and in fact you may be better off just leaving it stock if the can isn't venting. While it's a good idea I just think that you should keep on eye on it and be willing to change or scrap the idea if it needs be. Keep us updated.

Now wars and after 40 years I don't need to defend my intelligence unless I'm in a spirited debate with my wife...








Speaking of my wife (Accountant), one of her famous lines is - "The numbers don't lie, but people do." Truth be told, without the numbers I am no more wrong than Phil is right. What I do know, the "system" appears to be performing no differently than it did without the extension. At idle, it still chugs smoke no differently than before. What I don't know is the assumed increase in back pressure at WOT. The delta between idle and WOT might be revealing or a non-event.
Fortunately, with the flexibility of my Eurojet setup, I can run it as designed, I can add a second outlet line if I choose (doubling the venting) or I can punt and run it as a traditional recirculation can. This was the major reason why I went with the EJ system. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The books not closed on this yet. Part of posting in the first place is to help us all get our arms around this and see what shakes out. As many have said, "the stink" isn't bad, but passengers disagree.
Hopefully Phil won't say his can doesn't stink.







(Just having fun with ya Phil).


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## Malaco0219 (Mar 18, 2007)

very unique idea. 
however, if i recall, the Eurojet plate has a lil gap like the bsh stg 1 plate, allowing some vapours to go to the exit leading to the rear pcv, hence making it not a 100% filter. Correct me if i'm wrong, but i recall seeing a picture of a EJ plate as i described somewhere on here...


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: (Malaco0219)*

Has anyone looked into how challenging it would be to reroute the HVAC air intake? Since it is pulling air for itself, you could run a hose to the fender as long as you could get a seal around the port that it pulls air from.


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## ShutItDown (Jun 14, 2007)

*Re: (Malaco0219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Malaco0219* »_very unique idea. 
however, if i recall, the Eurojet plate has a lil gap like the bsh stg 1 plate, allowing some vapours to go to the exit leading to the rear pcv, hence making it not a 100% filter. Correct me if i'm wrong, but i recall seeing a picture of a EJ plate as i described somewhere on here...

That problem was fixed.


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *ShutItDown* »_
That problem was fixed.


they stopped making the gap in there blockoff plates?


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## fuscobal (Nov 24, 2004)

What about using a hose to send the dirt directly under the car like this ? >


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## SpeedVision (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*


_Quote »_they stopped making the gap in there blockoff plates?

Let's call it a channel for accuracy...
Did thet stop milling the channel???








Also, there was a poor fit gap on the block off, was this fixed too???


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (SpeedVision)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SpeedVision* »_
Let's call it a channel for accuracy...
Did thet stop milling the channel???








Also, there was a poor fit gap on the block off, was this fixed too???
 I just installed one on a friend's car on Wednesday. the channel i still in the plate.


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## SpeedVision (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (MFZERO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MFZERO* »_ I just installed one on a friend's car on Wednesday. the channel i still in the plate.

Figured. If I was too worried about it, I'd just fill the channel with epoxy and call it good.


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## SpeedVision (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: (fuscobal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fuscobal* »_What about using a hose to send the dirt directly under the car like this ? >


I'm not qualified to comment, but leaving the PCV system in place is still a problem. Second, I'm not sure the PCV will "function properly" without vacuum... Third, the blow by will eventually lead to sludge accumulating on the bottom of your car. Fourth, I hope insects don't make a nest in your engine some day...


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## utekineir (Jul 2, 2008)

*Re: (SpeedVision)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SpeedVision* »_
I'm not qualified to comment, but leaving the PCV system in place is still a problem. Second, I'm not sure the PCV will "function properly" without vacuum... Third, the blow by will eventually lead to sludge accumulating on the bottom of your car. Fourth, I hope insects don't make a nest in your engine some day...









i may and probably am wrong, but
-- but leaving the PCV system in place is still a problem::: supposedly the boost acting on the pcv system is the issue, in saabers thread it seems to be working fine once vented
--Second, I'm not sure the PCV will "function properly" without vacuum... ::: Don't the vta setups eliminate the vaccum from a recirculating pcv setup as well?
--Third, the blow by will eventually lead to sludge accumulating on the bottom of your car.::: Meaningless unless whats building up will damage the vehicle, it will never be seen except on a lift. 
--Fourth, I hope insects don't make a nest in your engine some day...







::: add a filter/screen, problem solved. Unless the filter/screen gets plugged.


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: (SpeedVision)*

Can anyone comment on how hard it would be reroute the inlet for the HVAC?


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## piston (Oct 17, 2008)

*Re: Vent To Atmosphere Catch Can - Killing "The Stink" (SpeedVision)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SpeedVision* »_
That would require me to pretend to be something that I'm not - a "racer". Me, like 90% of the people on this forum are simply trying to make the best of what we have to work with and the cards dealt to us with the FSI and emmissions requirements. 


You are worried about emission requirements and you want a VTA setup?


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## SpeedVision (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: Vent To Atmosphere Catch Can - Killing "The Stink" (piston)*


_Quote »_Me, like 90% of the people on this forum are simply trying to make the best of what we have to work with and the cards dealt to us with the FSI and emmissions requirements. 


_Quote, originally posted by *piston* »_
You are worried about emission requirements and you want a VTA setup?


ttt... No, I'm saying that emmission requirements are the reason the crank case gasses are being redirected into the intake...contributing to the problems... Since FSI motors don't have fuel to keep the back of the intake valves clean, VW fell asleep and didn't design the PCV system to accomodate their FSI technology...
I do car very much about the environment, that's why I'm doing the right thing and running a 200 cell cat on my DP. Al G. would be proud...


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## SpeedVision (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: Vent To Atmosphere Catch Can - Killing "The Stink" (SpeedVision)*

Just a quick update. I rerouted my boost gauge line to a fitting and installed it into the 2nd input for the EJ can to verify whether the can was properly venting under boost...with the remote breather as noted in my first post. I'm pleased to report that the needle on my boost gauge didn't move, not even a fraction of an inch verifying that no back pressure was being created by the "additional resistance" of the extended outlet.
Yes, I'm running stock boost, but I'm confident that chipped cars will find the same results. If you don't believe me, try it for yourself. This is a 10 minute project, especially if you don't use your stock engine cover...
Now, if you're a "track star" like Phil, and have a few thousand horses under the hood, it's probably best not to do this mod. However, for the rest of us daily drivers, you get the benefit of the VTA can without the stank!
Fortuantely, with the EJ can you don't have to be afraid of the stink! Nuff said. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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