# Stock Boost level?



## Ebbsnflows (May 31, 2012)

Can someone tell me what the CC makes for stock boost levels? Also, do the APR/GIAC chips increase that level in order to attain their performance increases?


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## njm23 (May 30, 2008)

Ebbsnflows said:


> Can someone tell me what the CC makes for stock boost levels? Also, do the APR/GIAC chips increase that level in order to attain their performance increases?


 yes, with a flash the boost is increased.. That is how you get more power out of a turbocharged car. Stock psi? Maybe somewhere between 7-10 I would assume. Flashed is around 20psi


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## Ebbsnflows (May 31, 2012)

njm23 said:


> yes, with a flash the boost is increased.. That is how you get more power out of a turbocharged car. Stock psi? Maybe somewhere between 7-10 I would assume. Flashed is around 20psi


 Perhaps that's how VW tuners get power out of turbo-charged cars...In every domestic forced-induction vehicle I've owned, in order to gain HP we simply tweaked the waste-gate settings (or swapped snails). Chips/Tuning were simply for dialing in the A/F ratio and spark timing at various RPM ranges...chips did nothing for boost. I had read a few posts on this forum that implied tuning was responsible for boost...I just wanted to clarify that. 

....the 20psi on a chipped CC surprises/concerns me a bit. I'm curious about danger levels for the stock bottomed CC, including the stock fuel system. Doubling boost pressure, must really tax the stock injectors/fuel pump.


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## njm23 (May 30, 2008)

Ebbsnflows said:


> Perhaps that's how VW tuners get power out of turbo-charged cars...In every domestic forced-induction vehicle I've owned, in order to gain HP we simply tweaked the waste-gate settings (or swapped snails). Chips/Tuning were simply for dialing in the A/F ratio and spark timing at various RPM ranges...chips did nothing for boost. I had read a few posts on this forum that implied tuning was responsible for boost...I just wanted to clarify that.
> 
> ....the 20psi on a chipped CC surprises/concerns me a bit. I'm curious about danger levels for the stock bottomed CC, including the stock fuel system. Doubling boost pressure, must really tax the stock injectors/fuel pump.


 no offense,but you really seem out of touch with the VW/AUDI aftermarket scene and turbo cars in general. You realize "tweaking" the wastegate is turning up the boost, WITHOUT adding any more fuel into the mix = running lean and no where near the potential of the setup.. Yes you could in theory do that with this turbo as well, if you didn't care that your Air to Fuel ratio was absolute garbage and in a dangerous scenario for your motor/turbo. 

The tune turns up the boost pretty much the same way using the cars computer, but compensates for the added air flow and higher psi with more fuel, to make sure your A/F ratio's are in check and making the most possible power. Tuning the stock turbo to 20psi is no where near enough to push the stock internals of these motors. As well, doubling the psi of the turbo will add more "stress" to the turbo, if you beat on it, no doubt, but the stock fuel system can completely handle it without an issue.


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## Ebbsnflows (May 31, 2012)

njm23 said:


> no offense,but you really seem out of touch with the VW/AUDI aftermarket scene and turbo cars in general. You realize "tweaking" the wastegate is turning up the boost, WITHOUT adding any more fuel into the mix = running lean and no where near the potential of the setup.. Yes you could in theory do that with this turbo as well, if you didn't care that your Air to Fuel ratio was absolute garbage and in a dangerous scenario for your motor/turbo.
> 
> The tune turns up the boost pretty much the same way using the cars computer, but compensates for the added air flow and higher psi with more fuel, to make sure your A/F ratio's are in check and making the most possible power. Tuning the stock turbo to 20psi is no where near enough to push the stock internals of these motors. As well, doubling the psi of the turbo will add more "stress" to the turbo, if you beat on it, no doubt, but the stock fuel system can completely handle it without an issue.


 No offense taken, We just speak different languages...to me "tuning", as I have done in my years of drag-racing, involves either manually or electronically altering air/fuel, spark, timing, fuel pressure, etc. I don't generally include waste-gate management as "tuning", primarily since many turbo systems utilize mechanical waste-gates (ie. Spring loaded/controlled), requiring hand tools for adjustment...not electronic "tuning". This variance in definition was the basis for my original question. As I have always been (and continue to be) an American muscle/performance car enthusiast, I am admittedly ignorant in many things "VW related". This is my first VW, and I'm trying to understand them based on Domestic/American performance as my point of reference and experience. The CC was purchased for what is: A 31mpg daily driver/commuter vehicle. It will never see the 1/4 mile, an auto-cross track or even a car-show. I have no intention of changing anything on it (maybe wheels)...I just want to understand the basics of VW and how they make power. 

But in the spirit of that, you bring up another point that I failed to address initially...perhaps someone else can chime in on this as well. With an addtional boost increase of 10-13 psi from the Chip (raising it from your estimate of 7-10 psi stock to 20psi)...I'm very surprised that only 50-55 additional fly-wheel HP is generated?? I would think that, of that 50-55 flywheel hp, 12-15 of it could easily be obtained simply from "tuning" the factory (inherently safe) A/F ratio, timing/spark etc. With no change in boost at all. This leaves only 40-45 HP to be gained from the enormous (13 psi) boost increase?? I would expect to see at least 70 fly-wheel hp with a 10-13 psi boost increase. In the world of domestic performance (again my only point of reference) this relatively small HP increase from such a significant boost increase typically indicates the existing turbo has been stretched beyonds its thermal efficiency and is basically just blowing hot air? Certainly this isn't true and I'm probably just missing something. Perhaps you or anyone could shed some light on this? Again...this is just for the sake of my own curiousity and in an effort to better understand VW. 

I'll leave my questions regarding the fuel injector duty-cycles and fuel pump LPH for another time.


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

opcorn::beer:opcorn:


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## njm23 (May 30, 2008)

Ebbsnflows said:


> No offense taken, We just speak different languages...to me "tuning", as I have done in my years of drag-racing, involves either manually or electronically altering air/fuel, spark, timing, fuel pressure, etc. I don't generally include waste-gate management as "tuning", primarily since many turbo systems utilize mechanical waste-gates (ie. Spring loaded/controlled), requiring hand tools for adjustment...not electronic "tuning". This variance in definition was the basis for my original question. As I have always been (and continue to be) an American muscle/performance car enthusiast, I am admittedly ignorant in many things "VW related". This is my first VW, and I'm trying to understand them based on Domestic/American performance as my point of reference and experience. The CC was purchased for what is: A 31mpg daily driver/commuter vehicle. It will never see the 1/4 mile, an auto-cross track or even a car-show. I have no intention of changing anything on it (maybe wheels)...I just want to understand the basics of VW and how they make power.
> 
> But in the spirit of that, you bring up another point that I failed to address initially...perhaps someone else can chime in on this as well. With an addtional boost increase of 10-13 psi from the Chip (raising it from your estimate of 7-10 psi stock to 20psi)...I'm very surprised that only 50-55 additional fly-wheel HP is generated?? I would think that, of that 50-55 flywheel hp, 12-15 of it could easily be obtained simply from "tuning" the factory (inherently safe) A/F ratio, timing/spark etc. With no change in boost at all. This leaves only 40-45 HP to be gained from the enormous (13 psi) boost increase?? I would expect to see at least 70 fly-wheel hp with a 10-13 psi boost increase. In the world of domestic performance (again my only point of reference) this relatively small HP increase from such a significant boost increase typically indicates the existing turbo has been stretched beyonds its thermal efficiency and is basically just blowing hot air? Certainly this isn't true and I'm probably just missing something. Perhaps you or anyone could shed some light on this? Again...this is just for the sake of my own curiousity and in an effort to better understand VW.
> 
> I'll leave my questions regarding the fuel injector duty-cycles and fuel pump LPH for another time.


 I guess no one else wants to have any input.. so i'll continue on my point of view. 

Well, yea I certainly hope no one bought a cc to drag race or autocross haha. The problem is, and why you see such small gains with the stock turbo, is because it is TINY. So yes, at 20psi the turbo is being pushed pretty hard and beyond its effeciancy range and becoming quite heatsoaked. 

From someone who deals with mostly american cars, i can assume you had decent sized turbos on your vehicle as most are added on after the fact, when you have a turbo that is bigger than the size of your fist, higher psi creates quite a bit of power. When I was running a HTA3076r on a 1.8t in my audi, 14PSI to 24PSI was over 150whp difference on AWD. This turbo is just to small to be able to flow that much air to see giant increases. 

And when you look at a "stage 2" tune, which has the higher flowing exhaust and intake, you are getting about 60HP out of the turbo. I think if you were to actually see how small these turbo's are, you would understand why such little gains.


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## bp328i (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe this will clear a few things up. 

The CC turbo stock runs 10 psi of boost. A stage 1 tune increases that to 16 psi of boost so it's only increasing the boost by 6 psi not 10 to 13. 

A stage one tune (Unitronic) takes the CC from 200 hp to 245 hp and 207 TQ to 280 TQ. 

Mind you I'm getting all this from http://www.unitronic-chipped.com/ecu-tuning/Volkswagen-Passat-CC-20L-TSI-2009-2010


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## milan187 (Mar 15, 2009)

bp328i said:


> Maybe this will clear a few things up.
> 
> The CC turbo stock runs 10 psi of boost. A stage 1 tune increases that to 16 psi of boost so it's only increasing the boost by 6 psi not 10 to 13.
> 
> ...


 This is correct. Tuned is around 16psi, and stock is around 9-10psi


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## Ebbsnflows (May 31, 2012)

bp328i said:


> Maybe this will clear a few things up.
> 
> The CC turbo stock runs 10 psi of boost. A stage 1 tune increases that to 16 psi of boost so it's only increasing the boost by 6 psi not 10 to 13.
> 
> ...


 Ahhhh...now THAT makes more sense. Thank you for clarifying the boost numbers.


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## njm23 (May 30, 2008)

bp328i said:


> Maybe this will clear a few things up.
> 
> The CC turbo stock runs 10 psi of boost. A stage 1 tune increases that to 16 psi of boost so it's only increasing the boost by 6 psi not 10 to 13.
> 
> ...


 maybe unitronic, but apr put you at 18-20 psi.. 
stage 1(everything stock just a flash) 254 hp 303tq 
stage 2 (with exhaust and CAI) 274hphp 314q 

The same psi..


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## bp328i (Mar 14, 2012)

njm23 said:


> maybe unitronic, but apr put you at 18-20 psi..
> stage 1(everything stock just a flash) 254 hp 303tq
> stage 2 (with exhaust and CAI) 274hphp 314q
> 
> The same psi..


 I'm getting my CC tuned next month and I have always heard Unitronic gives a "stronger" tune so when I just read your post I called APR to make sure I was not missing out by going with Unitronic. APR just told me their stage 1 brings your boost psi up to between 15 and 17.


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

I'm going with Apr....there are LOTS of ppl out there running their software and I haven't heard of any complaints about it (not saying there has never been one) and they seem to be very happy with it. If that doesn't say something then Idk....but to each their own, no one can tell anyone what to do with THEIR car, as long as they're happy is what counts most.


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## njm23 (May 30, 2008)

bp328i said:


> I'm getting my CC tuned next month and I have always heard Unitronic gives a "stronger" tune so when I just read your post I called APR to make sure I was not missing out by going with Unitronic. APR just told me their stage 1 brings your boost psi up to between 15 and 17.


 Well, I don't know what to say, maybe they are conservative just to cover themselves? as some/most people would expect 20psi to hold all the way to redline, which isnt possible on a turbo this small.. I am going off real world experience, first hand. Witnessing an APR tuned mkv jetta and mkv gti both hit between 18-21PSI, now if you run that to redline, yes, it settles to 15-17psi or so as the turbo is well passed its efficiency range to hold onto that boost pressure all the way through.


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## Ribz80 (Jan 18, 2004)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnnLiPJivP8&feature=player_embedded 

That video shows a spike to about 18psi. 

There are a lot of variables at play here, do not just look for the tune with the highest PSI. 

I highly doubt my stage 2 setup cracks 20psi.


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## giraffeneck27 (3 mo ago)

njm23 said:


> I guess no one else wants to have any input.. so i'll continue on my point of view. Well, yea I certainly hope no one bought a cc to drag race or autocross haha. The problem is, and why you see such small gains with the stock turbo, is because it is TINY. So yes, at 20psi the turbo is being pushed pretty hard and beyond its effeciancy range and becoming quite heatsoaked. From someone who deals with mostly american cars, i can assume you had decent sized turbos on your vehicle as most are added on after the fact, when you have a turbo that is bigger than the size of your fist, higher psi creates quite a bit of power. When I was running a HTA3076r on a 1.8t in my audi, 14PSI to 24PSI was over 150whp difference on AWD. This turbo is just to small to be able to flow that much air to see giant increases. And when you look at a "stage 2" tune, which has the higher flowing exhaust and intake, you are getting about 60HP out of the turbo. I think if you were to actually see how small these turbo's are, you would understand why such little gains.


 This is good info I have a cc and wasn't planning on dumping a bunch of money into the engine mostly just want cosmetics. Its quick but I was wanting to make it a little more fun to drive. Do you think the transmission would be able to handle the power gain of a slightly larger turbo kit? Or would I likely need to upgrade that as well? I drive the 2.0t 4 cyl automatic if that makes any difference.


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## WILLCCU (Oct 26, 2015)

Save yourself some money and by the K04 kits offered by numerous sources and the tune they sell with it. Best bang-for-buck out there and makes a tremendous difference in power and fun factor.


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## giraffeneck27 (3 mo ago)

WILLCCU said:


> Save yourself some money and by the K04 kits offered by numerous sources and the tune they sell with it. Best bang-for-buck out there and makes a tremendous difference in power and fun factor.


Thanks for the tip, I will look into getting it seems affordable and with a tune so I'm excited cause this is very doable!


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## WILLCCU (Oct 26, 2015)

Sale prices at most places coming soon. Pay close attention and save maybe 10%?


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