# Dad asked me to post about his A6, starting problem



## sneedham6 (May 9, 2010)

So my dads A6 is having a weird starting problem; not even his go-to mechanic. I'll try to cliff notes his explanation.

-Went to Toronto for a week, car was fine before this (which I also knew)
-Comes back, car not cranking
-Charge battery, car starts and very weakly. Has not been able to start since
-Cranking can be heard
-Mechanic confirmed fuel is being delivered and that there is spark.

The only thing his mechanic could think of trying was a new timing chain. Anyone think of anything else?


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

Exactly what happens when you try to start it? Does it crank slow or does it crank fast? Does it try to start but keeps "choking"? Do you hear any abnormal noises? Does the immobilier light flash? How full is the gas tank? If close to empty, fill up with good fuel - might have stopped at a gas station with crappy fuel. Any other details that in your opinion may (or may not) be helpful?

I don't quite understand what could be wrong with a timing chain. You can't skip a tooth on a chain (unless there is something different about this specific engine) and if it broke the engine would crank once and stop as the valve and pistons started making out. If it keeps turning, the chain is fine.


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## frankinstyn (Oct 11, 2004)

If the timing chain were bad it certainly wouldn't crank. Instead you would hear the pistons hitting the valves and then it wouldn't turn at all. 

It sounds like you have a pretty serious power drain somewhere or a bad alternator. This isn't something you can troubleshoot online. 

This power drain may very well have killed the battery. You should take it out of the car completely and place it on a battery charger. Give it a high amp charge for 20 minutes and then place it down to two amps overnight. Any new battery charger will automatically turn off when the battery gets full. When you're done with that, test the battery to see if it held the charge. Then recharge it as the test drains the battery.


Now for tracing down the battery drain. This article explains how to test for one if you suspect it and subsequently how to find that drain. Give it a read. You will need a multimeter that can read amps. You can get a $15-20 one from harbor freight that will do the trick. 

http://www.wikihow.com/Find-a-Parasitic-Battery-Drain

If you do find that it isn't a battery drain, the next thing to test is the output of your alternator. A combination of a non charging alternator and a almost completely drained battery will lead to a barely running or not running at all engine.


THAT ALL SAID...it is sadly most likely that your alternator is dead. A very rough way to test this is to use a multimeter set on volts across the battery terminals at idle (so you would have to recharge that battery and get the engine started first).

You get that reading. It should be between 13-15 volts. 13 or lower without the lights or fan running (everything electrical off) and you most likely have a bad alternator. Slowly turn everything on. Lights, radio and lastly AC. Then turn the AC fan on high as well. You should see the voltage output drop to almost 13 if not a little under 13 as you turn every thing on. 

If voltage is above 15 volts then you have a bad voltage regulator and you should turn the car off immediately and look into getting that replaced (usually a part of the alternator). The computers in the car can be fried by too high a voltage.


Do NOT go to the same mechanic you went to before. If he can't trouble shoot a little problem like this then he's not worth anything.


Oh and if its a A6 C5 (1998-2004) then it doesn't have a timing chain. It has a timing belt. That can skip teeth but not likely unless you're close to the changing interval....about 75 to 85,000 miles.


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## sneedham6 (May 9, 2010)

When we were trying to start it, it definately was cranking fast. The only other thing I can think of adding is that there were a few backfires.


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

If it was cranking fast, then it's not a battery issue. You said it started once, so the injectors are working. The mechanic said the fuel is there, but is there enough fuel pressure? Also as I mentioned the fuel quality could have an affect - I've seen cars not start due to low quality fuel or even dilluted fuel. A few sensors could cause starting issues - MAF, Cam and/or Crank speed sensor. Find somebody with a VagCom and check the inputs.



frankinstyn said:


> Oh and if its a A6 C5 (1998-2004) then it doesn't have a timing chain. It has a timing belt. That can skip teeth but not likely unless you're close to the changing interval....about 75 to 85,000 miles.


X2 :thumbup:


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## frankinstyn (Oct 11, 2004)

acincys said:


> If it was cranking fast, then it's not a battery issue. You said it started once, so the injectors are working. The mechanic said the fuel is there, but is there enough fuel pressure? Also as I mentioned the fuel quality could have an affect - I've seen cars not start due to low quality fuel or even dilluted fuel. A few sensors could cause starting issues - MAF, Cam and/or Crank speed sensor. Find somebody with a VagCom and check the inputs.




Yup. Could be any of those problems. My bet (albeit a bit premature without more information) is on the electrical system because he needed a jump at all. I have been known to make mistakes though....on rare occasion.


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

frankinstyn said:


> Yup. Could be any of those problems. My bet (albeit a bit premature without more information) is on the electrical system because he needed a jump at all. I have been known to make mistakes though....on rare occasion.


We all do. I mean look at my first reply.. Talking about a timing chain skipping a tooth? I wasn't quite sober yet from the night before.. I read your reply and thought to my self "why didn't I think of an amp draw..?"
I wonder if it cranks fast while jump starting.. Because he says it does crank fast now. But working in a shop, on more than one occasion I've seen people trying to jump start cars with 'crank no start' issues.


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## sneedham6 (May 9, 2010)

So update on my dad's mechanic that he relayed to me.

Car starts, has a rough idle. He also said he was told not all cylinders are firing.


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## imaudi6 (Aug 23, 2010)

Get the car scanned first. The only issue ive seen with the Da not starting is the temp sensor. Its buried on the passenger side below the intake tube. Good luck keep us posted.


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

imaudi6 said:


> Get the car scanned first. The only issue ive seen with the Da not starting is the temp sensor. Its buried on the passenger side below the intake tube. Good luck keep us posted.


Yeah, you can either go to a dealer/shop, find somebody with VagCom near you (search vortex - people post this kinda stuff), or go to a local parts store - some of them can scan you for free.


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## sneedham6 (May 9, 2010)

So the car finally produced a code, 1545 which is a throttle pos contr. malfunction. What do you guys think then?


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## frankinstyn (Oct 11, 2004)

http://www.passatworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166541 

Same engine. They are pretty much on the money. 

It might actually be the throttle body if your condition is that bad but please do yourself a favor and do the throttle body adaption first.


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## sneedham6 (May 9, 2010)

Okay just to make sure, my dad's car is a Drive-By-Wire and not a normal cable connection? 1998 A6 2.8 is his car.


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

sneedham6 said:


> Okay just to make sure, my dad's car is a Drive-By-Wire and not a normal cable connection? 1998 A6 2.8 is his car.


 Correct. VW/Audi has been doing drive-by-wire for a long, long time now. 

Okay, that other post is a lot of reading, so I give up on it.. Try this method before you pay anything for anything. Turn on the ignition (do not start the engine) and press the accelerator pedal to the floor for 10 seconds. Then release and turn the ignition off. See if that fixes it. Unlikely, but it's worth a try. 

Doing this tells the ECU where the full throttle is. The pedal constantly adapts, so if the car is driven with the throttle 70%, 80%, 40%, etc. down at the most for a few weeks, the ECU assumes that that pedal position is the farthest it goes. But usually when that happens, you get hard automatic transmission shifting concerns. So just try and see if anything happens.


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## sneedham6 (May 9, 2010)

acincys said:


> Correct. VW/Audi has been doing drive-by-wire for a long, long time now.
> 
> Okay, that other post is a lot of reading, so I give up on it.. Try this method before you pay anything for anything. Turn on the ignition (do not start the engine) and press the accelerator pedal to the floor for 10 seconds. Then release and turn the ignition off. See if that fixes it. Unlikely, but it's worth a try.
> 
> Doing this tells the ECU where the full throttle is. The pedal constantly adapts, so if the car is driven with the throttle 70%, 80%, 40%, etc. down at the most for a few weeks, the ECU assumes that that pedal position is the farthest it goes. But usually when that happens, you get hard automatic transmission shifting concerns. So just try and see if anything happens.


 The thing is, I looked in his Bentey and it said the 2.8s from 98-99 are not E-Gas which I thought was their name for DBW? No matter what I found a page for Throttle Body Adjustments for both DBC and DBW.


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

sneedham6 said:


> The thing is, I looked in his Bentey and it said the 2.8s from 98-99 are not E-Gas which I thought was their name for DBW? No matter what I found a page for Throttle Body Adjustments for both DBC and DBW.


 I suppose 1998 was a long time ago too.. It's easy to tell though. Just look at the throttle body and see if there's cables running to it or not. There will be a wire harness connector there regardless.


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## sneedham6 (May 9, 2010)

Okay so one more question before my dad gives up and imports a Phaeton into Canada.... 

He has been quoted for adding a new throttle body to possibly see if thats the problem at $1000. 

I right away checked Ebay and saw throttle bodies at around 99 dollars off good, reputable Ebay dealers. 

I kinda think a throttle body wouldnt be too hard to install for him; is it hard to do or not because he'd rather have me try to buy a used one for $100 then paying a mechanic $1000 so that he can install a brand new one. 

Thanks!


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

You're right, it really is not hard to replace. It may or may not, however, need to be adapted with either a factory scan tool or VagCom. If it does anyway, it will still be cheaper than $1000..

edit:
Wait, $1000 for a throttle body? That's a bit insanely pricey..

Phaetons are great! Especially the W12. I remember driving one a while back.
Did you know that Top Gear rated it better than every other luxury sedan they tested in the same episode? Maintenance will cost you an arm and both legs though. Oil change alone on the W12 is out of this world..


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## sneedham6 (May 9, 2010)

acincys said:


> You're right, it really is not hard to replace. It may or may not, however, need to be adapted with either a factory scan tool or VagCom. If it does anyway, it will still be cheaper than $1000..
> 
> edit:
> Wait, $1000 for a throttle body? That's a bit insanely pricey..
> ...


So my dad got the car back from his mechanic. We told his mechanic about the throttle body adjustment but he does not have access to a Vag-Com application.

I did a Google search for my dad and came across Ross-Tech. Anyone have experience using this program because he'd rather just pay the $200 for the USB code and still have it for future uses for any Audi/VWs repairs in the future.

The steps to do the TBA seem easy enough based on that prior link, he just wants to be sure that Ross-Tech is good.

Thanks!!


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

Oh, I suppose somebody should've mentioned this.. VagCom is made by RossTech. It's essentially a different name for the same thing.

You can get either a USB cord or a Serial one. USB is much more universal. Especially if your computer doesn't have a Serial port, it is very hard to make it work with adapters. Go with USB.


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## sneedham6 (May 9, 2010)

OH MY GOODNESS ITS RUNNING SMOOTHLY AGAIN!!!!

He bought the VAG-COM Ross-Tech equipment and he called me over to help him with it. Sure enough it worked!!!! Thank you so much everyone and if your ever in Winnipeg, my dad says you got beer coming!!!


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## Aren Jay (Jun 9, 2009)

Just to point out if anyone ever buys a Phaeton, buy a warranty.


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

sneedham6 said:


> OH MY GOODNESS ITS RUNNING SMOOTHLY AGAIN!!!!
> 
> He bought the VAG-COM Ross-Tech equipment and he called me over to help him with it. Sure enough it worked!!!! Thank you so much everyone and if your ever in Winnipeg, my dad says you got beer coming!!!


Hey, very happy to hear this! It's nice to be a part of a good cause 
What exactly did you guys do though? Throttle adaptation?



Aren Jay said:


> Just to point out if anyone ever buys a Phaeton, buy a warranty.


Yes! Unless you're very, very rich.


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## sneedham6 (May 9, 2010)

Yes, we bought the Ross-Tech adapter and went through the steps and it worked perfectly! It actually even runs better now!


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