# 2004 Phaeton Will Not Start (Kessy???)



## bnr0914 (Dec 27, 2012)

Hello -

I hope that someone can help us!

We have a 2004 V8. Last night the alarm began to sound and my remote would not turn it off. I entered the car manually and tried to turn off the alarm by starting the car. The car would not start and the key was locked in the ignition. I finally was able to release the key using the emergency release. Once the key was out the lights on the dash began to flash. I finally just left the car and the battery eventually died overnight. 

After reading many helpful posts, we removed the drain plug and water did pour out. Our next step is to find out if it is the Kessy. Where is it located and can we get to it to test it somehow? I called my dealer and he advised me that my extended warranty expired in November. 

Thanks!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Yup. Fried Kessy. 

The padding under the carpet is a gigantic sponge. You'll never get it 100% dry.

You've already pulled the drain plug. Follow the threads you have found and clear the drains so no more water gets inside. Tow the car to the dealer. Have the dealer order a new Kessy module, swap it in and program it and the keys. I suggest putting a plastic bag around the new Kessy and wrapping it shut with tape to prevent water getting in again in the future.

Good luck. Won't be a cheap nor quick fix. 


- Josh


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Btw- on the bright side, you didn't mention the car trying to start itself, so it could have been worse. Several people have burned up the starter due to this.


- Josh


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## bnr0914 (Dec 27, 2012)

Nothing is ever quick or inexpensive when comes to these cars! By any chance can you tell me how to access the kessy myself?


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

It is under the driver feet carpet. I think it is shown in the thread to install push button start. I am on a cell phone or else I would find it for you.


- Josh


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## bnr0914 (Dec 27, 2012)

Ok - We found it.... If we can get it out and dry it out really well do you think it will work? You were right about the sponge...


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## bnr0914 (Dec 27, 2012)

One more question.... where do you buy one? can we use a toureg kessy?


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## cowboy_ (May 16, 2011)

bnr0914 said:


> Ok - We found it.... If we can get it out and dry it out really well do you think it will work? You were right about the sponge...


Hi Bnr, 

Welcome to the forum. There is another postpost with pretty much the exact same problem you are having. You can give it a shot and try to dry the circuit but when a circuit board (coper, basically) enters in contact with water AND electricity, the results are really bad, but hey, it is probably already fried so you loose nothing giving it a shot, right? 

Good luck and let us know of your progress for other to see it.

Juan


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## bnr0914 (Dec 27, 2012)

Thank you for all of your help. We removed the Kessy, dried it and tested it - as of now everything is working....whew! Now, how do we keep the thing dry and prevent water from getting down there again.... Again, thank you so much for all of your help!


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

bnr0914 said:


> Thank you for all of your help. We removed the Kessy, dried it and tested it - as of now everything is working....whew! Now, how do we keep the thing dry and prevent water from getting down there again.... Again, thank you so much for all of your help!


You are really lucky. I recently tried to fix one (the one Josh was referring to) but although all I was able to remove all visible damage, this kessy still only can be unlocked and locked, but not started.
I guess that corrosion did not yet have a chance in your case because it was still fully immersed in water when you found it. Did you use distilled water to rinse it before drying?

Some useful threads for prevention of this happening in the future listed below. The most plausible cause is the absence of some body plugs:
Damage arising from Towing & Flatbed Transportation

Another possible cause and how to prevent the resulting water ingress is given in the thread below. 
Water-in-Front-Footwell-(Cleaning-Air-Intake-Plenum-and-Sunroof-Drains)

Some other useful information here:
Electrical-Problems-(possibly-due-to-water-in-cabin)
And here:
Key-not-working-car-will-not-start-alarm-activates

And here:
Car-won-t-unlock-recognize-key-release-key-from-ignition-or-start-(wet-controllers-)



PowerDubs said:


> ...I suggest putting a plastic bag around the new Kessy and wrapping it shut with tape to prevent water getting in again in the future....


When I received the damaged KESSY from Bob in Spain, I noticed that most damage was concentrated near the connector. The connector has 4 rows of 18 pins, however only three rows are actually used while the third row is empty, leaving some 18 little holes. This makes me conclude that the water is getting into the KESSY via the connector and not via a poor seal. When you put the KESSY into a sealed bag, you would need to seal each and every wire of the wiring harness, otherwise the water would still be able to penetrate the KESSY via the wiring harness and the unused connector pinholes of the unit. When you use a very long bag, long enough to make sure that the opening is above the maximum level to be expected, this method might be successful. But I prefer to make sure that no water can penetrate into the car.

Willem


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I agree. Prevention is the best plan of attack. 

When we bought our first Phaeton which was dead from a swimming kessy, I just figured a little extra protection was prudent given it cost about $1000 just for the module back then if I am remembering right.

This problem is quite widespread actually. I have several friends who are, or where dealer techs and I've heard of this more times than I would like. Just since we fixed ours 3.5 years ago, I've seen probably 6-8 guys just posting here on the forum with this issue. Sucks, because it is totally preventable and gives the car a bad rep as being unreliable. Combine that with a repair shop that may chase other symptoms due to the weird things the car does when wet..and headaches occur.

The official answer most go by is to be diligent in the removing of debris from the plenum section and sunroof drains.

My personal prevention method, suggested to me by friend who intimately knows the workings of Phaetons, A8's, Bentley's etc, is to completely remove the center plenum orange rubber plug and snip the ends off of the sunroof drain tubes.

If his credentials help in validating his experience and knowledge in making those suggestions, here is his resume-


Current- Operations Manager at Spyker Cars

Past- After Sales Manager at Spyker Cars
Bentley Technician at O' Gara Coach Company, Beverly Hills (4 years)
Shop Foreman at Santa Monica Audi
Audi Technician at Beverly Hills Audi
Shop Foreman at Steve Taub Audi


He also owns a beautiful white 2006 Phaeton himself.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Here are some discussion threads that provide more information about the "preventative measures" that Josh has recommended in his post above.

These preventative maintenance tasks are best done in the early spring each year, when you have a nice warm day and you can work on the car outside. You can do the work indoors, in a garage, but it tends to make a bit of a mess because a lot of water is used to flush debris out of the various areas of the car where debris collects.

Water in Cabin Footwell (Cleaning Air Intake Plenum and Sunroof Drains)
Water in Cabin Footwell (Leakage via Electronics Box in Right Plenum Chamber)
Water in Cabin Footwell (Leakage via Air Conditioning Evaporator Pan or Evaporator Pan Drain Lines)

Michael


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

#1 suggestion for the common quirk/issue thread as it does the most damage compared to things like coil packs, door trim, etc..

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Good point, Josh. Noted.

Michael


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## kend414 (Feb 10, 2009)

Glad to hear things are working! I see your in NJ.:wave: If your ever in need of help or a vag-com scan, feel free to give me a PM. I have some spare parts as well and can refer you to an excellent,reasonable mechanic, while not a certified Phaeton tech, he is Audi R8 certified, Porsche certified and is HONEST and diligent. I found that those two traits to be rare. As Josh has explained, some of us have removed the center plenum rubber drains to prevent accumulations of debris. I've also sealed my new Kessy unit in a zip lock bag and sealed around cable entering the bag. So far, no more problems. Good luck and hope to meet up at some point!
Ken


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Didn't notice you were in NJ. What town? I am here too.


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## Autosourceohio (Aug 25, 2016)

PowerDubs said:


> Btw- on the bright side, you didn't mention the car trying to start itself, so it could have been worse. Several people have burned up the starter due to this.
> 
> 
> - Josh


Hey josh what's that mean when the car is trying to start itself?


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## Autosourceohio (Aug 25, 2016)

PowerDubs said:


> Btw- on the bright side, you didn't mention the car trying to start itself, so it could have been worse. Several people have burned up the starter due to this.
> 
> 
> - Josh


Josh it's moe with autosourceohio can you text or call me 513-364-1566 this is my cell thanks


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Autosourceohio said:


> Hey josh what's that mean when the car is trying to start itself?


When the Kessy is flooded, it frequently shorts out the connection to the starter, which is ironic since it's essentially there to prevent the car starting, causing the starter motor to run continuously until it burns out.

Regards, Proxy Josh.


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## Autosourceohio (Aug 25, 2016)

My 2005 phaeton is trying trying to start itself on its own when I put the battery terminals on 
Does anyone know why??


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yes, your Kessy has shorted.


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## Autosourceohio (Aug 25, 2016)

So what do I do in this case ?


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## Autosourceohio (Aug 25, 2016)

I took the car to the Vw dealership and they replaced the messy module , and I came back in town to pick up the car from there and they told me that you probably will have to get the car towed out after I just paid them to replace the module .


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## Autosourceohio (Aug 25, 2016)

When you get a sec , can you give me a call 
513-364-1566 thanks man 
I wanted to ask your opinion on something


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

There's no easy fix, unfortunately. Have you had a lot of rain recently, or been through deep water or something?? There's a plethora of threads on this with detailed information, but you need to dig out the Kessy from the driver's footwell. If you suspect there might still be water present, the first thing you should do is pull out the rubber bung underneath near the jacking point. The Kessy sits directly above that. Josh & I both run our cars without that bung so that the Kessy is never sitting in water even if water gets in there, it has some waterproofing and the the problem seems to happen when the compartment is flooded and it's sitting in water for some time, incidental water splashing up is unlikely to cause any problems (some people have a different opinion on that, but I've never seen any evidence to support it).

Your options are: let it dry out and cross your fingers, repair it (possible in some cases), replace it with a used one (need to find someone who can program a used one, until recently this was thought to be impossible, but has been proven otherwise), take it to a dealer and have them order & program a new one.


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## Autosourceohio (Aug 25, 2016)

Autosourceohio said:


> My 2005 phaeton is trying trying to start itself on its own when I put the battery terminals on
> Does anyone know why??



So the kessy module I just replaced needs replaced again?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Autosourceohio said:


> I took the car to the Vw dealership and they replaced the messy module , and I came back in town to pick up the car from there and they told me that you probably will have to get the car towed out after I just paid them to replace the module .


So the dealer has recently fitted a new one???


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## Autosourceohio (Aug 25, 2016)

invisiblewave said:


> There's no easy fix, unfortunately. Have you had a lot of rain recently, or been through deep water or something?? There's a plethora of threads on this with detailed information, but you need to dig out the Kessy from the driver's footwell. If you suspect there might still be water present, the first thing you should do is pull out the rubber bung underneath near the jacking point. The Kessy sits directly above that. Josh & I both run our cars without that bung so that the Kessy is never sitting in water even if water gets in there, it has some waterproofing and the the problem seems to happen when the compartment is flooded and it's sitting in water for some time, incidental water splashing up is unlikely to cause any problems (some people have a different opinion on that, but I've never seen any evidence to support it).
> 
> Your options are: let it dry out and cross your fingers, repair it (possible in some cases), replace it with a used one (need to find someone who can program a used one, until recently this was thought to be impossible, but has been proven otherwise), take it to a dealer and have them order & program a new one.


Yea there's been a lot of rain , the car is at the Vw dealership now , I went there to pick the car up after they just changed and replaced the kessy module and went out back to connect the terminals and the car would try starting on its own


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## Autosourceohio (Aug 25, 2016)

Hey bud do you a minute to talk on the phone ?


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## Autosourceohio (Aug 25, 2016)

invisiblewave said:


> Autosourceohio said:
> 
> 
> > I took the car to the Vw dealership and they replaced the messy module , and I came back in town to pick up the car from there and they told me that you probably will have to get the car towed out after I just paid them to replace the module .
> ...


Yea the dealer recently fitted a new one


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## Autosourceohio (Aug 25, 2016)

Autosourceohio said:


> invisiblewave said:
> 
> 
> > Autosourceohio said:
> ...


So do you advise that I pull the module out and try drying it and see what happens ?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That's what I'd do. You also need to clear out the sunroof & plenum drains, check the FAQ section for full instructions. Blocked drains are what causes the problem, the dealer should have done that if the last one was damaged by water.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I am usually the one sticking up for VW dealers but I have to ask this:

Why isn't the VW dealer making this right?

-Eric


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## alexdassy (May 9, 2019)

*2004 Phaeton v8 Kessy I 3D0909137Ax*

I replaced the Kessy because the there was so much water water under the driver carpet. I have to change it again.
I am looking for a 3D0909137Ax for a vw Phaeton V8, and I can't find any, do you know if any others will be compatible?


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