# As low as you can go...?



## Susannah (Apr 28, 2005)

Are the control arms the limiting factor to going lower?
I went by H2sport today (Tom is the man, you may have seen his work in H2Sport spindles and replacement camber plates and rear trailing arm bushings), and started to brain storm on how low a MKIV can really go, and I'm fairly certain that the control arms is it.. Once they press against the ground the car cannot go lower.
So at this point I'm wondering what everyone's thought are on custom control arms.. (well it would probably be a whole sub-frame with higher mounting points of the control arms) but then the frame rails (which continue beyond the wheel well) are the lowest point and structurally cutting those bitches up is a bad pull no?
I don't really know what the point of all of this is, I'm just kind of brainstorming random stuff and was wondering if anyone else has thought of it.. Because really we should all be roughly the same height from the ground if our control arms are limiting us...


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## Shawn W. (May 6, 2007)

*Re: As low as you can go...? (Silver Snail)*

You are talking about raising the whole motor and subframe to get the car lower








along with shock towers







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Susannah (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: As low as you can go...? (Shawn W.)*

It's basically not possible, considering it would be for an 1" maybe...
So we'll all be the same height lol


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## Shawn W. (May 6, 2007)

*Re: As low as you can go...? (Silver Snail)*

Nothing is impossible if you either have the money or the knowledge and tools. . . 
I think its more than most are willing to go with their cars. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Susannah (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: As low as you can go...? (Shawn W.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Shawn W.* »_Nothing is impossible if you either have the money or the knowledge and tools. . . 
I think its more than most are willing to go with their cars. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I took Humanities in school not Engineering.. I guess thats my first mistake! 
Hrm..


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## Afazz (Feb 10, 2002)

*Re: As low as you can go...? (Silver Snail)*

Wheel size is a big limiter from what I've seen. Laying subframe on larger wheels is a big challenge, especially with airride. All the lowest cars around here are running wheels at the small end of the acceptable size range for its respective chassis. Does that make sense?


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## mystthebird (Jun 23, 2007)

arent poeple laying stock lips.... what are we all turning into mini truckers where we will drop till we lift the wheels off the ground.


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## Capt. Obvious (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (mystthebird)*

My car is pretty much as low as is mechanically possibly without heavily modifying the chassis of the vehicle. My upper control arms currently rest on my upper fenderwells (metal, and part of the structure of the car) when I'm aired out. To go much lower I'd need to do some pretty hectic stuff that I'm not prepared to do to a car as new as mine.


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## Still Fantana (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: As low as you can go...? (Afazz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Afazz* »_Wheel size is a big limiter from what I've seen. Laying subframe on larger wheels is a big challenge, especially with airride. All the lowest cars around here are running wheels at the small end of the acceptable size range for its respective chassis. Does that make sense?









Not necessarily true Mark (kracked_gti) is running 18s and is laying subframe (w. modified fenders). Just saying...


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## Capt. Obvious (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: As low as you can go...? (Still Fantana)*

Isn't he running tiny tires though?


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## Still Fantana (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: As low as you can go...? (Capt. Obvious)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Capt. Obvious* »_Isn't he running tiny tires though?

I dont know honestly..


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## ForVWLife (Nov 12, 2004)

*Re: As low as you can go...? (Still Fantana)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Still Fantana* »_
Not necessarily true Mark (kracked_gti) is running 18s and is laying subframe (w. modified fenders). Just saying...









he has custom struts though


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## Susannah (Apr 28, 2005)

HPS premium acctually. (the green/yellows) at least thats what Kevin at AAC said..


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## [email protected] (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: (Silver Snail)*

Not true.
He has Modified Comp struts.


_Modified by [email protected] at 5:41 PM 8-3-2008_


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## Susannah (Apr 28, 2005)

And there you have it.
I was thinking about custom subframes.. and raised motors.. But does anyone know how difficult trimming the frame rails would be? I mean it would be like notching the frame, but just in two places and more like shaving a "knee" lol


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## CAPiTA (May 28, 2004)

*Re: (Silver Snail)*

18x9 225/40 old wheels. i was affraid to mess with the rails... somehow reinforcing them so i could notch a bit so they wouldnt be pinching the tires.. see how the new setup sits then we'll go to work..
old setup:


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## Susannah (Apr 28, 2005)

Looks good.
Is that with the control arms on the ground? Most likely...


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## ForVWLife (Nov 12, 2004)

*Re: (Silver Snail)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Silver Snail* »_And there you have it.
I was thinking about custom subframes.. and raised motors.. But does anyone know how difficult trimming the frame rails would be? I mean it would be like notching the frame, but just in two places and more like shaving a "knee" lol

we already answered the question.....custom comp struts....a shorter strut is really the only way to get way low on a mk4 w/o seriously modifying the car..personally i have no desire to cut up my car...subframe... etc to get an extra what maybe an inch
when i can afford it im gonna try these comp struts...clearly he is plenty low


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## Susannah (Apr 28, 2005)

No you didn't. If you took a second to understand my dilemma you would know I can go just as low as Mark w/o competition struts. It's the control arms that are limiting me from going lower..


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## ForVWLife (Nov 12, 2004)

*Re: (Silver Snail)*

are your control arms on the ground?


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## Susannah (Apr 28, 2005)

Yup.








Same with Hinrichs and Mark... Thats it. On 17's with a 40 series tire mind you..


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## vdubfiend (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (Silver Snail)*

u guys are all weak..... 
worried about notching frame rails... fender "rails" at that.... any competent fabricator could handle this in no time 
on this same page of this forum someone is wondering why none of you here are "as low as the europeans" 
i wonder


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## Shawn W. (May 6, 2007)

*Re: (vdubfiend)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubfiend* »_u guys are all weak..... 
worried about notching frame rails... fender "rails" at that.... any competent fabricator could handle this in no time 
on this same page of this forum someone is wondering why none of you here are "as low as the europeans" 
i wonder
























I just want my car back


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## Santi (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: (Silver Snail)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Silver Snail* »_Yup.








Same with Hinrichs and Mark... Thats it. On 17's with a 40 series tire mind you..

then if your car is already on the ground how much lower do u want to go? 
When i began reading i thought you werent on the ground, but you are so ther ei s no worries, granted you are on 17s and 40 series tires, so if u test fit some 18s and still arent on the gorund then worry about it, but for now there is no reason. 
In my car the the control arms hit the frame, just like Rat4life, and he notched his, also my tie rods hit the frame, But i've also established that my struts are dont collapse anymore, so i need to change them up or change my upper strut mount bushing and make it a soild plate in order to keep strong enough and be able to make it thinner than the cut bushing i have right now.


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## Rat4Life (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (vdubfiend)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubfiend* »_u guys are all weak..... 
worried about notching frame rails... fender "rails" at that.... any competent fabricator could handle this in no time 
on this same page of this forum someone is wondering why none of you here are "as low as the europeans" 
i wonder

















last time i checked europeans run big ass bumpers and some low side skirts to make it look low , and dont get me started on their wheel choices 
then again my current wheels aren't any better


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## Lower it!! (Aug 1, 2007)

*Re: (Rat4Life)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rat4Life* »_
last time i checked europeans run big ass bumpers and some low side skirts to make it look low , and dont get me started on their wheel choices 
then again my current wheels aren't any better









Well if you look at the Mk3 guys over there they might run a different front bumper but they actually alter they're frame rails to sit better. A lot of time ditching the pinch weld and smoothing them.


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## ForVWLife (Nov 12, 2004)

*Re: (Santi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Santi* »_
then if your car is already on the ground how much lower do u want to go? 


exactly what i was thinking


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## CAPiTA (May 28, 2004)

*Re: (Lower it!!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lower it!!* »_
Well if you look at the Mk3 guys over there they might run a different front bumper but they actually alter they're frame rails to sit better. A lot of time ditching the pinch weld and smoothing them. 

thats what im gunna be doing.. notch the pinch weld to get the rail off the tire.. just reinforce it.


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## Rat4Life (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (Lower it!!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lower it!!* »_
Well if you look at the Mk3 guys over there they might run a different front bumper but they actually alter they're frame rails to sit better. A lot of time ditching the pinch weld and smoothing them. 

i already hammered my pinch weld over the tire flat , and my tires are not hitting it anymore. the problem i have now is my tires rest on the inner wheel well, the only way to fix it now is cutting into engine compartment.


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## Santi (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: (Rat4Life)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rat4Life* »_
i already hammered my pinch weld over the tire flat , and my tires are not hitting it anymore. the problem i have now is my tires rest on the inner wheel well, the only way to fix it now is cutting into engine compartment.


i need to do that to mine, i think it may have something to do w/ me not ebing able to go lower.


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## Still Fantana (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: (Rat4Life)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rat4Life* »_
i already hammered my pinch weld over the tire flat

Glad i did this on my original install. technically has saved me a 2 times when my bags pop was still able to drive. W.out i wouldve just ripped right thru both tires


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## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (Still Fantana)*

Suzi you are correct. The subframe itself can't really be "moved" up any. If you've seen how it bolts to the underbody, theres just no way it can be done short of cutting into the unibody and reforming it, which I couldn't even imagine the structural risk you'd be taking.
Get under the car and stare at it I guess. Maybe something will come to mind.
Oh, and the reason I'm over here is b/c I was going to suggest adding spacers below the motor mounts to raise the engine a bit so the axles aren't so angled at the CV's...but...looks like that's not the limiting factor haha.


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## Susannah (Apr 28, 2005)

LOL
Thanks Mike, I sort of figured. I was just wondering if anyone had done any "crazy European ****" to get their cars lower. Some of you have already discussed what MK3 owners have done to pinch welds so I rest my case. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


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## Santi (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: (Silver Snail)*

If i had another car, or access to a lift i would've cut some sh!t up alread. i really need to get my car lower.


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## PAULITO (Oct 24, 2004)

*Re: (Santi)*

time to make a tubular front frame


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## Still Fantana (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: (PAULITO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PAULITO* »_time to make a tubular front frame 

You 1st


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## PAULITO (Oct 24, 2004)

*Re: (Still Fantana)*








i'll pass


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## Still Fantana (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: (PAULITO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PAULITO* »_







i'll pass 

But you sounded so confident


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## PAULITO (Oct 24, 2004)

*Re: (Still Fantana)*

i typed confidently















pull a fender yes, made a structural frame no


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## Rat4Life (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (PAULITO)*

on the mk4 chassis is way too many problems to get it lower.
even after making a tubular subframe your next thing is raising the engine, after that the radiator support will be too low, so you gonna have to do something about that. and even if you will get it that low with making all the above, what kind of a front lip you gonna run on the bumper ? i guess none, but then it would look stupid when you driving.


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## Susannah (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: (Rat4Life)*

Mike, I think once the lip is pressed against the ground would be low enough... Maybe shave the bottom?


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## PAULITO (Oct 24, 2004)

*Re: (Silver Snail)*

haha lip with no little strip on the floor is the mk4 goal


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## Susannah (Apr 28, 2005)

Hey man thats like.. 1.5"!!


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## PIFF (Nov 11, 2007)

*Re: (Silver Snail)*

that little lip keeps us mk4ers sain haha.


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## Santi (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: (Silver Snail)*

Jetta lips, dont have that little flat part that comes down...


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## Susannah (Apr 28, 2005)

Or you mean yours is gone already?


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## Santi (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: (Silver Snail)*

whats gone? i had a GTI 4-mo lip long time ago, other than that i've only had the stock Jetta lip.


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## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (Santi)*

she means the lip on the bottom of the lip, assuming you rubbed yours completely gone from scraping haha


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## Santi (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*

Ha, no it never came with one... 
SEE


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## Susannah (Apr 28, 2005)

Oh!








Learn something new every day!


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## Santi (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: (Silver Snail)*

And also a stock Jetta lip looks deeper than the 4-mo lip. I have both, and i wish the 4-mo looked lower.


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