# innovate lc1 issues



## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

hey all, its getting to be out of bike season, so i need to put the bike in storage and get the vw running/tuned for the new alt (i moved) and its going to be COLD
its running ms2 and an lc1

ive kind of always had issues with my lc1. it likes to freeze even when i calibrate it and reground wires and such.

it will work fine for a bit, then freeze, then go to 22.2 then drop down to somethink like 13.1 and just stay there til i key off/key on a few times.

im wondering if this is a lost cause and should but a new one?
i like the look of the MTX-L. is it better than the LC-1/DB gauge? right now i honestly cant stand this gauge. its never worked 100% right. i cant hook it up to MS for correction because when it fails, it tells the ecu its running off, even though its not...so it drives like crap.


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

When is the last time you "free air" calibrated it?


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

i had an lc-1 as well and it was nothing but trouble. if you dig deep in its documentation you'll see that it is super-duper picky about its grounds. they also have a history of having some power supply issues.
i recommend what i did (of course ) - ditch the lc-1 and to play it safe ditch Innovate as a whole and buy a simpler a/f gauge by another maker. i know the recalibration bit seems nice, but in the grand scheme of things, if its reading is off by even 0.1ish, who cares?


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

i free air calibrated it 2 days ago.

even on my 5hr trip to move here, i calibrated it a day before i left. then on the trip it would work sometimes. and others, not so much

i have re-done the grounds. but still issues.
maybe its mad both grounds are on the same post, but i dont understand how something that simple can cause such a huge issue...

i do like the mtx-l
its cheap and supposed to be the fastest af gauge out right now, and it has a wider range vs my friends AEM....but my friends AEM was plugged in and has worked perfect ever since...
i just have to see if it will work with MS i guess...they are similar in price


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

The LC1 is *very* picky about grounding. I end up grounding *everything* at the same point on the head on all my installs and it works totally fine every time. 

I haven't used the MtxL yet but it seems like a nice piece and based on the LM2 and not the LM1/LC series.


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

I have mine grounded on the head right next to my megasquirt grounds  perhaps its just dead. Maybe ill try completely UN installing it, then re wiring it

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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Any errors showing on the led?


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

How long have you been using the sensor? Almost every time I have a goofy issue with my innovate products it can be solved with a new sensor


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

Error #8  

Its not that old of a sensor 
its in the downpipe...right behind the subframe.

I'm torn...aem or new sensor. I REALLY like the mtx-l but this is my second innovate sensor...i'm not down to keep shelling out 50$...

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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

You try and do a full recal, not just fresh air but the heater one too? Unplug, key on for 30sec, key off, plug back in and let it heat back up. Best to do in fresh air but see what that does.


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

Ill try that in a few min and see how it works out

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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

Right now i'm really between the PLX sm-afr with a dm-6 gauge. And the MTX-L.

Tough choice :/

Opinions?

Ill get to the heater test tomorrow, but i'm rather set on a new gauge.

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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

rocklizzard91 said:


> Right now i'm really between the PLX sm-afr with a dm-6 gauge. And the MTX-L.
> 
> Tough choice :/
> 
> ...


I've had pretty good luck with the MTX-L


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

For all the cars I build I use the NGK AFX with NTK sensor. Though I have plenty of customers happy with the MTX-L.


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

Good to know we have some good MTX-L users!

Matt Cramer at Diyautotune recommend the MTX-L and zeitronics

Ill look at the NGK too.

Anyone heard anything about the PLX setup? I really like that its a multi gauge I can string together

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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

well i tried the full recal
(unplugged sensor and all that jazz)
it did the recal, and as soon as it finished free air calibrating, it showed code 8 

i think im pulling the trigger on the PLX tomorrow unless someone says otherwise


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

rocklizzard91 said:


> Matt Cramer at Diyautotune recommend the MTX-L and zeitronics


whatever you do avoid zeitronics!!

terrible stuff, and worse customer service. we used to use one of those for tuning but it really didnt like being unplugged more than once or twice, and i cant remember how many power supplies it burned up... awful.


depending on how old your lc1 is it could be suffering from some of their power supply issues... i believe ones that they sold about 4 or 5 years ago were a "bad batch" of sorts, but they never admitted it and theres tons and tons of posts on their help forum about the issue (none that innovate actually responded to, of course).


lately ive been really digging the AEM integrated gauge... much nicer than the innovate stuff in my opinion....


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> whatever you do avoid zeitronics!!
> 
> terrible stuff, and worse customer service. we used to use one of those for tuning but it really didnt like being unplugged more than once or twice, and i cant remember how many power supplies it burned up... awful.
> 
> ...


yeah i dont like zeitronics. it looks cheap and my friend has one i installed. i HATED it.

my LC1 is more than 2 years old. ive had it for 2 and i got it used. it may be an old one.

i have liked the AEM but some forums said megasquirt doesnt like it for long. it has issues sometimes.

i ordered the PLX. ill post pics of it all and do a review on it since there are NONE out there.

i talked to PLX today and they said the newest model has been out for some number of weeks. however, they have had zero returns for faulty stuff. they laughed when i said its replacing my innovate gauge


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

ive had no issues with the AEM stuff and have quite a bit of time on it...
but im sure the plx will be an upgrade regardless :beer:


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

I had the gauge going from 7.4 to 22.0 etc, and I did a full recall and free air calibration.
No go.
Next I connected to LM Programmer or what's it called, and reset all. After a few tries, all good!
It's working fine since.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I had a few of the 'bad batch' ones and they usually weren't an error 8 but who knows. The fact its second hand won't help but you could try and RMA through them still if you can read the SN on the unit. Might be worth a credit for an MTXL, doesn't hurt to try.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

need_a_VR6 said:


> I had a few of the 'bad batch' ones and they usually weren't an error 8 but who knows. The fact its second hand won't help but you could try and RMA through them still if you can read the SN on the unit. Might be worth a credit for an MTXL, doesn't hurt to try.


i had a customer with a failed innovate box that i tried to wrangle them into fixing... no go.
they havent had the best customer service, in my experience


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

I have had great experience with the innovate customer service, I return my lm-1 and had it replaced when it was acting goofy, and I sent another one in years ago that had a similar issue. Both were replaced, and both still work awesome today


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

weird they really werent very nice to me. i even called and spoke to two different people... 

oh well :beer:


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

I did all my stuff via email, just sent an email with the issue, was told to send em in, and did. Got a new one back about a week later both times :thumbup:


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

if theres ever a next time... thats what ill do :laugh:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Just have him do it for you!!


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

i got the PLX in and installed last night!
its a very nice little gauge. ill be doing a review on it when i get a chance. 300mile trip on it tonight will show how it handles prolonged use

so far im very happy with it.
very simple to install and get working!
and much more compact than the lc-1


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

rocklizzard91 said:


> i got the PLX in and installed last night!
> its a very nice little gauge. ill be doing a review on it when i get a chance. 300mile trip on it tonight will show how it handles prolonged use
> 
> so far im very happy with it.
> ...


further review after another 300 mile roadtrip AND i tuned some more
i thought at first that the wideband was too overly touchy. i never got smooth data...it was very rough so i thought it was updating too fast or something.
it turns out i had accel enrich partially set to MAP (which i dont have tuned) so any slight pedal modulation (ie, hitting a bump) would trigger AE and dump some fuel.

i turned it back to TPS and it worked much better. nice smooth data
but this shows how fast the PLX updated. it was going crazy because all the roads here are overly bumpy (and im on ksports set on stiff...)

tuning with it was very nice. its reliable enough to leave the EGO authority percentage up pretty high and its yet to have any bugs!
i love this gauge! i would buy another!


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