# Dear VWoA.........................



## VWturbo2Ltr (Aug 4, 2001)

I would like to take a moment to share my disgust with your current decision to not release the New Scirocco to North America. Further I would like to offer an idea, postpone the release of the mk VI GTI for one year. Instead release a limited edition Scirocco to the US for that year. This way your fears of the Scirroco undercutting your GTI sales would be of no concern.


----------



## ShadowRabbit6 (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (VWturbo2Ltr)*

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE VW.....WE NEED A SCIROCCO!!!!!


----------



## Gberg888GLI (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (ShadowRabbit6)*

WTF VW send us the scirocco


----------



## VWturbo2Ltr (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (Gberg888GLI)*

as if there already isn't enough salt in our wounds from VW not sending us the new scirocco........ they dangle an R version in our face

AAAARRRRGGGGG














COMMON VW WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (VWturbo2Ltr)*

what you guys don't want a Routan?? or a Tiguan???
what kind of VW fans are you... wanting a scirocco... sheesh.


----------



## 13bpower (Jun 28, 2006)

*FV-QR*

**** that re-badged chrysler. give me a scirocco.


----------



## kkwas (Apr 15, 2003)

Drop the 2 door GTI and only offer the 4 door in the states. Offer the Scirocco instead. That being said where do I put my money down on an R.


----------



## 13bpower (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (kkwas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kkwas* »_Drop the 2 door GTI and only offer the 4 door in the states. Offer the Scirocco instead. That being said where do I put my money down on an R.

I don't like that idea though.


----------



## darkstarbfd (May 10, 2005)

*Re: (13bpower)*

very disappointed in VW


----------



## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: (darkstarbfd)*

yep... no more new VW's. next new car will be a WRX. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## darkstarbfd (May 10, 2005)

*Re: (The Hustler)*

how much would it cost if you bought the new scirocco in germany and had it shipped to the US?


----------



## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: (darkstarbfd)*

there is a thread about it on here. almost impossible.


----------



## kkwas (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: (13bpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *13bpower* »_
I don't like that idea though.

Well VW is worried about taking sales away from the GTI right? So put them in two separate markets altogether. If the GTI is only a 4 door then if you want a 4 door you buy it. If you want a sport coupe, then you buy the Scirocco. It makes sense, think about it.
How many 2 door lancer EVOs are sold? How many 2 door STIs are sold? Those are the main competitors and they don't offer 2 doors and are the most successful products in this market. Heck VW doesn't sell many 2 door GTIs in Germany either. Just get rid of it and simplify production and reduce costs further. Although I could be wrong.


----------



## 13bpower (Jun 28, 2006)

I follow you, but you're talking to a 2dr gti owner. lol


----------



## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: (kkwas)*

nah... there should be NO 4 door GTI's... if you want 4 doors get a GLI... oh wait, VW axed that one too...
VW. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## darkstarbfd (May 10, 2005)

*Re: (The Hustler)*

whats happening to volkswagen


----------



## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: (darkstarbfd)*

they want to make luxury cars, SUV's and minivans..







well thats what they want us to buy..








VW should stick to small cars. we have needed a polo or lupo for YEARS, but nope... we still have to wait for that, and even then it'll be as much as a rabbit was.


----------



## nachtmusik (Aug 1, 2006)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (VWturbo2Ltr)*

here's my take: dear vw, if you're willing to blow a bunch of coin on the cc and routan, then why not blow a little more and give us a car that might actually sell?
truth be told, however, what i really want is a new polo gti...the new style looks great.


----------



## 13bpower (Jun 28, 2006)

rocco isn't a rebadged chrysler, and I actually like the cc.


----------



## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: (13bpower)*

CC http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Phaeton http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
"VW's Phaeton was not a success for VW in the U.S. The company planned on only selling 20,000 of them, but they only managed to sell a quarter of that amount when they pulled the car in 2005. Even with though the car barely managed to register on the sales screen, the company is moving forward with the next version of the car.
The next 2010 Volkswagen Phaeton will use many of the same parts as the Audi A6 according to VW boss Martin Winterkorn. This means that the new car will be smaller and cheaper than the first generation. This should bring it closer to the most expensive Passat and close the current gap in the Volkswagen line-up. "

are you effing kidding me?!?!?!?!?! we get this POS and no Scirocco??












_Modified by The Hustler at 4:34 PM 5-27-2009_


----------



## crawl (Sep 24, 2006)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (VWturbo2Ltr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWturbo2Ltr* »_I would like to take a moment to share my disgust with your current decision to not release the New Scirocco to North America. Further I would like to offer an idea, postpone the release of the mk VI GTI for one year. Instead release a limited edition Scirocco to the US for that year. This way your fears of the Scirroco undercutting your GTI sales would be of no concern.

I don't see why it has to be 2.0T Scirocco, put less expansive engine and interior in it and sell @ Rabbit price range. It looks 100 times better and it will appeal to those who wants two door sporty looking car at reasonable price (POS Scion TC sells like hot pancakes in our village. Around 40,000 TC sold in US last year and only 20K Rabbits). I'm not sure how much more money does it cost to make Scirocco compare to regular Golf, but at $19 000 - $20 000 price range even with 2.5L I5 engine and features of 4 door Rabbit it will eat TC and others, IMHO.
VWoA it is your move!


----------



## kevinGTI02 (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: (13bpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *13bpower* »_rocco isn't a rebadged chrysler, and I actually like the cc.

He is talking about the van that VW released (routan), it is a rebadged chrysler and it is not selling....at all really. 
Every time I see the damn commercial for that van I bitch about it being a chrysler and all my friends look at me like








New scirroco would sell like fire if North America even knew about it. Let alone the R version. 
Point being, Americans don't know **** other than the few models that actually do sell here. Too bad VWoA is mentally challenged and has no idea what will sell in this market.


----------



## TechEd (Nov 11, 2000)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (VWturbo2Ltr)*

Jeeez. Here we go again, but I’ll bite anyway.
The knee-jerk, “lemonade stand” business sense that some self-righteous consumers extol in forums nowadays is extremely troubling to see. Oversimplified and shortsighted, this, along with deeming themselves victims when a beloved Brand fails to deliver something desirable, has become really pathetic. It’s time for many here to give their head a shake, walk a mile in someone else’s shoes and stop jumping on “misery loves company” bandwagons. In this case, the bandwagon is one critical of things on which little in the way of facts or reason is known. This is especially true for importing small numbers of *any* Eurozone product to the USA, be it cars or otherwise.
First, who died and declared VWGoA solely responsible for the decision to not import the Scirocco now? News Flash: It was *not their call*. The approval process is far more complicated than most can imagine. It’s likely that the importer provided competitive, local market data to VWAG and they validated it based on their own research and historical data. Initial certification losses and overhead financials relative to a small volume risk probably played a big role. Despite what the pundits have to say, especially in light of the current global automotive crisis, it was no surprise that the current business case as crunched by VWAG for Scirocco in the USA failed miserably. Like any cautious parent, we can imagine that VWAG will no longer tolerate import losses in the USA until the balance sheets here approach black …and the only time that is likely to happen is when profits on the books from VWGoA Chattanooga production offset the losses associated with imported sport niche or “brand magnet” models.
For those willing to understand, let’s put this into perspective: Remember that VWGoA has not seen an operating profit since 2002. It continues to lose money on every Eurozone product it imports. The crap exchange rate, along with only adequate long term currency hedging and meager margin offset from Mexican products is the primary reason. Anyone in any import business in the USA will immediately identify that the main goal of VWGoA product planners right now is not overall operating profit, but minimizing the losses on overseas product importation. Evidence of this is their reduction in model proliferation and number of build variants that always demand production premiums. Their future challenges for Polo and Phaeton business in the US exist in totally different contexts compared to the Scirocco. This is due to their unique projected volume/margin ratios. Sorry, it’s apples, oranges and strawberries.
It’s a noble effort in the most expensive world market in which to do import car business (certification, potential litigation, highest world market warranty costs etc.). Dabbling with low volume “brand magnet” models like the R32 and Eos, all the while suffering under a loss control strategy watched over by a conservative, yet powerful parent year after year must suck at the corporate level. But, their focus on keeping the Brand presence alive in the USA through decent margins for their Dealers, selling solid middle to mainstream and upscale product (much to the chagrin of those on the fringe), has proven successful (despite Rome crumbling around them as we speak). Importing yet another Eurozone niche model to their US portfolio, esp. in the small quantities associated with a sport segment cost structure, would be reckless and irresponsible at this time. They’re doing a fine job without it.
Indeed, the fact that VWAG and VWGoA have fared better than most during the current auto crisis should not be overlooked. The slain giants, GM & Chrysler, and Toyota etc., are now analyzing and benchmarking VWAG’s resilience in these tough times. Similar to Ford, VWAG went through a brutal cost-cutting and right-sizing process three years ago, re-emerging with refocused global business strategies and R&D investments. This resulted in market-appropriate products, served by the right number of dealers that were allocated volumes accordingly (not shoved down their throat) …these all being areas that the now-suffering giants constantly abused because they thought they could call the shots and afford to do so. Most importantly, analysts agree now that part of the success of the VWAG & VWGoA-AoA partnership was not yielding to consumer demands for new models with dangerous business case resumes. *Sometimes it’s smart to say NO because sometimes, the customer is not always right.* The saying: “We have met the enemy, and he is us” …comes to mind.
Reckless pandering to a car buying public that, for the most part, are fickle, unpredictable and self-absorbed is but one of many reasons why outfits like GM and Chrysler are in such bad shape. At its worst, the decision for men to buy a car is not made with the big head, but with the little head. As with clothes, women buy a car not for themselves, but for other women. The failure of GM and Chrysler actually mirrors the stupid behaviour of many of their customers …in that they lived well beyond their means and denied the eventual circumstances. It’s not the right way to live and not the right way to run a railroad. 
I’m a Volkswagen enthusiast who wants the Brand to remain healthy for many years to come. I want my children and grandchildren to drive and enjoy them, As such, VWAG is to be commended for not exporting the Scirocco to the USA at this time. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (TechEd)*

wow... you must be bored.


----------



## UnitedGTI. (Oct 1, 2007)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (The Hustler)*

dont know if it has been said or not but why not use the scirocco r20t model to replace the r32? it would be a whole new model and offer it in both manual and dsg? i would have my car sold and be in one of those before they even get off the assembly line! come on vw! send us the r20t!!


----------



## lexluthor (Feb 6, 2009)

Yeah why not use the R20 rocco to replace the R32 since nobody cares about the current R32. Also its amazing how vw is selling so many versions of the same car here. The scirocco would be a different variation and choice for the consumer. Yes people will say they are too similar but remember mercury is selling the same models rebadged as fords etc


----------



## acpjxm (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (UnitedGTI.)*

I would guess that the cost of certifying a new model like the Scirocco would be prohibitive if it is only going to be sold in limited numbers. On the other hand, because the R32 is based on the Golf/GTI, much of the certification has already been done, so the cost should be significantly lower.


----------



## blue4uevo8 (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (acpjxm)*

Looks like I will be going the Subaru STI or Hyundai Gen Coupe route next time. VWOA really is trying to loose sales.


----------



## blue4uevo8 (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (The Hustler)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Hustler* »_wow... you must be bored.










And on the VW payroll


----------



## vabeach337 (Aug 1, 2004)

I don't even want one...I'm happy with my 337 and GLI...however, I still voted yes! 
Bring a 4-door, candy white, 6spd manual R32...then we'll talk.


----------



## eurovseuro (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (kkwas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kkwas* »_
*Well VW is worried about taking sales away from the GTI right? * 

Thats it!! It will out sell the GTI. I would buy one if it was to come to the USA


----------



## Zwei Bora Tdi (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (TechEd)*

Hey, It is not the consumers fault VW or anyone else can't operate at a profit. Business 101: Economy of Scale. The company better offer what the consumer wants or it will fail just like the once big companies. They will lose their base and the base will leave. Look at Circuit City. VW in the '90's. Many other examples out there. As a matter of fact: The CEO of VW had to fight to bring the R32 here with an original 5500 or so units. They sold everyone of them. Then bring them over with a unpopular transmission: FAIL.
Bring cars to the U.S or Germany and don't give consumers what they want: FAIL. You also can't introduce Global Protectionist Policies into a debate about bringing a boutique car here. The Japanese have been subsidizing their companies for years which ruined this "exclusive market" Not to feel sorry for dumb EU Zone rules or regs. The big companies in Germany have all struggled in their OWN markets due to pressure from Japan. I lived in Germany for over 12 years (till '02) I can give you an earful about the great love and pastime of Germany being erroded by EU Regs/ Import Quotas Etc. Your beloved 911 is merely assembled in Zuffenhausen. It is assembled from parts from all over the EU and until recently the engine was made in FINLAND a non-EU country, but in the "EU Zone". Very confusing.







What has this to do with Me and some others wanting VWOA to bring a car to the U.S? Success! We aren't talking about a 43k Mitsubishi Evo or a Subi 2.5 WRX are we? Maybe? I would like the TTRS as well. I don't think asking for 5500 of a Scirocco RS or RT or whatever coming here will kill VWOA or VAG, but they actually might sell a few and keep their cult alive. Again, it is not the consumers fault if they don't operate at a profit. It is their fault. If they don't and can't figure out how to make cars that will sell, then they will fail too.


----------



## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (Zwei Bora Tdi)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (The Hustler)*

Why would VW bring the Scirocco to the USA *when they cant even supply enough cars for the European market?* The average time from ordering a car to delivery over here now is around 3 months.
I must say it is worth it though, after spending the weekend driving my brand-spanking new Scirocco 1,4 TSI


----------



## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (1,3LG60)*

just keep rubbing it in...


----------



## TechEd (Nov 11, 2000)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (Zwei Bora Tdi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zwei Bora Tdi* »_Hey, It is not the consumers fault VW or anyone else can't operate at a profit. Business 101: Economy of Scale. The company better offer what the consumer wants or it will fail just like the once big companies. They will lose their base and the base will leave. Look at Circuit City. VW in the '90's. Many other examples out there. As a matter of fact: The CEO of VW had to fight to bring the R32 here with an original 5500 or so units. They sold everyone of them. Then bring them over with a unpopular transmission: FAIL.
Bring cars to the U.S or Germany and don't give consumers what they want: FAIL. You also can't introduce Global Protectionist Policies into a debate about bringing a boutique car here. The Japanese have been subsidizing their companies for years which ruined this "exclusive market" Not to feel sorry for dumb EU Zone rules or regs. The big companies in Germany have all struggled in their OWN markets due to pressure from Japan. I lived in Germany for over 12 years (till '02) I can give you an earful about the great love and pastime of Germany being erroded by EU Regs/ Import Quotas Etc. Your beloved 911 is merely assembled in Zuffenhausen. It is assembled from parts from all over the EU and until recently the engine was made in FINLAND a non-EU country, but in the "EU Zone". Very confusing.







What has this to do with Me and some others wanting VWOA to bring a car to the U.S? Success! We aren't talking about a 43k Mitsubishi Evo or a Subi 2.5 WRX are we? Maybe? I would like the TTRS as well. I don't think asking for 5500 of a Scirocco RS or RT or whatever coming here will kill VWOA or VAG, but they actually might sell a few and keep their cult alive. Again, it is not the consumers fault if they don't operate at a profit. It is their fault. If they don't and can't figure out how to make cars that will sell, then they will fail too.









Of all the mindless, disjointed, denial-fueled drivel I've seen in my time, this one damn near wins the top prize. In this case, the name on the trophy is: "Best Lemonade Stand, Consumer-Centric Argument for Business 101 Applying to Foreign Parent Companies and their US Importer Subsidiaries = FAIL". Take off the blinders for a moment and take the time to do some simple math. In this light (should it be visible to you), VWAG's rationale and current decison stands as a smart move at a critical time.
http://www.motorauthority.com/....html
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...uMfew
http://www.businessweek.com/gl...sives
Also, don't go comparing small volume Asians (different currency challenges) and upmarket German product business to Scirocco potentials. Regardless of volume, the reason that Audi and Porsche are profitable is becasue customers that actually end up buying their cars (not the dreamers and wannabies tha hang out here), tolerate the markups that fuel the corporate margins. 
No current recoup of parent R&D investment + small export volume + 1.4177 Euro/Dollar differential (+ non-existent US sport coupe market + production premium for small volume US spec build + small volume mandatory US parts content + initial US one time certification + yearly certification + no tolerance for segmet markups) = no US Scirocco business case.
In essence, what you and many others are really saying is that you don't grasp how, or (if you do) don't care that the Importer loses their shirt on bringing the cars to the US, along with letting US staff go and canceling hundreds of vendor/supplier contracts, as long as YOU are happy. Self-righteous consumerism at its finest.
Under the market current circumstances, I have to laugh at past comments made here and elsewhere that "....VWAG and VWoA don't understand the US market". It's now obvious that no one, * not one* US domestic or Asian transplant OEM really, fully understands the US market, due mostly to the fickle and flighty nature of US consumer (yesir, the consumer *is* partly to blame). In that context ...purely from a consumers point of view, everyone fails. Indeed, it's disingenuous of consumers to disassociate themselves as being part of the problem. But, even though consumers may fault VWAG and VWoA for a lack of understanding, financial analysts see things much differently. They see excellent balancing and managing of Euro/Dollar product losses and appropriate product restraint along with decent US Dealer margins putting them in the top group of global manufacturers that were/are least affected by the current economic crunch. Unless you are a troll or a Unruhestifter of Scheisse, the truth ingrained in *that* math is irrefutable.


_Modified by TechEd at 4:45 PM 6-8-2009_


----------



## Zwei Bora Tdi (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (TechEd)*

I win a top prize! Yea! A 2011 Scirocco!







Then I will have 3 cars like the rest of America!


----------



## PHIXION AZ (Jul 16, 2008)

Dear VW: What do I have to do to get a new Scirroco R?
I will totally let you sleep with my girlfriend.


----------



## VWturbo2Ltr (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (TechEd)*

hey tech..... WOW!!!








I don't think anyone will dispute that you have a vast vocabulary that you really like to use, nor your ablity for inteligent conversation. I think you are missing the mark here. My original post mearly states that for one year VW should bring the Scirocco to the state instead of the GTI. Now since VW is going to bring the GTI to the states and has been for some years now. This should be more than enough to show that there is a demand for a "hot Hatch" just substitute the GTI with the Scirocco for one year as a "limited" production vehicle.


_Modified by VWturbo2Ltr at 2:32 PM 6-12-2009_


----------



## TechEd (Nov 11, 2000)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (VWturbo2Ltr)*

Okay, so you're suggesting they substitute an existing money-losing model with a new money-losing model, at smaller volumes, to enter a dead market segment? And this at a time when US residents are hard-pressed to buy any car of any kind? And, along with this you make no suggestions as how they could swallow the cumulative losses associated with importing a new model.
Your suggestion represents an *even worse* business case than just straight out addition of the Scirocco to their import portfolio. Would you run your own business this way?
Not only would the existing GTI demographic in the US be confused and protest, dealers (the only ones that profit from VW sales) would rise up as well. Current and future GTI business, which is undoubtedly considered to be part of their core brand DNA in the US, represents significantly more than the less than 10% interested in a new Scirocco. The versatility associated with a choice of GTI two and four door models, along with better practicality and broader market appeal would be compromised severely if temporarily removed from offer.
Regardless, this is all a waste of time anyway. The basis of your suggestion is totally invalid because Detlef Wittig’s clearly stated reason of for non-exportation at this time is the strong Euro. Everyone (including the green PR wags at VWGoA) would do well to once and for all stop perpetuating the knee-jerk “…afraid of pirating GTI sales” quote from a long-since departed VWoA boffin. At the time, it was assumptive and speculative at best, with no numbers of any kind to back it up. It's also very likely that similar knee-jerk comments contributed to him getting sacked. Since then, the business case numbers were officially crunched and, not surprisingly, the strong Euro sealed its fate. If VWGoA can be faulted for anything, it is that they failed to get on the same PR page as their parent company.


----------



## Zwei Bora Tdi (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (TechEd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TechEd* »_Okay, so you're suggesting they substitute an existing money-losing model with a new money-losing model, at smaller volumes, to enter a dead market segment?.
 
Yes we are. And who do you think will buy them?







The guys that drive VW's and Audi's and Subaru and Mitsubishi. You didn't read what anyone wrote.


----------



## Zwei Bora Tdi (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (TechEd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TechEd* »_
Of all the mindless, disjointed, denial-fueled drivel I've seen in my time, this one damn near wins the top prize. 


So, I am mindless?








Hummm. Disjointed?








You need to stop drinking booze and posting here old man


----------



## Zwei Bora Tdi (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (kkwas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kkwas* »_
Well VW is worried about taking sales away from the GTI right? So put them in two separate markets altogether. If the GTI is only a 4 door then if you want a 4 door you buy it. If you want a sport coupe, then you buy the Scirocco. It makes sense, think about it.
How many 2 door lancer EVOs are sold? How many 2 door STIs are sold? Those are the main competitors and they don't offer 2 doors and are the most successful products in this market. Heck VW doesn't sell many 2 door GTIs in Germany either. Just get rid of it and simplify production and reduce costs further. Although I could be wrong.










I agree! Look what was posted on Motor Authority about what Audi is getting ready to do 
"As part of its new model blitz to drive its offerings up from the current 23 cars to a total of 40, Audi is augmenting its lineup with new coupes, soft-roaders and sedans. Late last year Audi revealed the new S5 and A5 Cabrios and the Q5 SUV is already priced and safety-tested for North America. One of the next models Audi plans to bring to market is its A7 four-door coupe. The latest details reveal a car targeted at premium buyers with a taste for style and power, with both hard-top and cabriolet versions planned.
Production is a certainty now that Audi has decided to put millions of euros into the plant in Neckarsulm in order to make the necessary upgrades and changes to build the A7 there. Production will start toward the end of next year, Audi boss Rupert Stadler told Automobile Woche, leaving launch timing up in the air, but likely for a very late 2010 or early 2011 launch. Previous hints at a launch date had mentioned the second half of 2010 as the target, but the with the intervening global recession and corresponding downturn in the car market, the A7 program appears to have been pushed back a few months.
A very wide range of powertrains will be offered in the A7 and its S7 and RS7 sport-focused variants. Everything from diesel-electric hybrids to 600hp V10s will be found under the hood of one variant or another. The hybrid drive is expected to show up first in the company’s Q5 soft-roader. A diesel-electric version is rumored, but the company may end up using a gasoline engine instead.
The more ordinary A7 variants will be powered by a pair of V6s. The first, a 204hp 2.8L engine is the base model, while the 3.0L supercharged engine making 300hp will be the first step up. An upgrade to S7 trim will bring with it another 94hp in the form of a 4.0L V8. The RS7’s 600hp 5.0L twin-turbo V10 is the range-topper. The S7 and RS7 will be released two years apart, with the S7 arriving first in late 2010 or early 2011 and RS7 after that.
A six-speed manual gearbox and eight-speed automatic will be available in the lower-spec models, while a seven-speed dual-clutch unit is also expected to be offered in the higher-performance variants. North American models are also expected to get Audi’s quattro AWD standard, though it is not known if European market variants will have a RWD option. Audi’s new torque-vectoring system will also be part of the package.
Air suspension will replace the standard spring-based system found in other Audis. The change is designed to help the car compete with the progenitor of the four-door coupe genre, the Mercedes CLS. Sales of the car are only expected to reach the 40,000 mark, but the image boost it will offer with its high-tech features and glamorous look - especially in the soft-top variant - are important for Audi’s development as a brand."








SO Audi will jump into the Coupe and Ragtop and offer a whole new line up! AND we can't get a new Scirocco? Pretty crazy.









Guess I will have to just buy an A7 then.


----------



## andie68 (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (TechEd)*

This isn't a rhetorical question but (try not to be patronizing in your answer) .... Is the GTI a money losing line? It's really hard to imagine that. How do you know with certainty that the Scirocco will be a money loser? 
VW's argument now is primarily that the economy is weak and that's the argument driving no export of the Scirocco. Hopefully VWoA will consider manufacturing the Scirocco at the new TN plant. Companies do make mistakes, i.e., not offering the R32 manual for '08. It seems that VW doesn't truly think of the North America as a growth opportunity for it. 
I still enjoy my WRX but I wouldn't think twice about purchasing a Scirocco or R manual transmission if either were offered. BMW expanded their line by offering the 128i and 135i - wiithin the past < 2 years despite the economy. Both lines are doing quite well. Look at the Mini Cooper S (and JCW), that car is widely popular in America and selling without discounted prices. To get similar options in a Mini S (as a nicely appointed GTI), a person spends quite a bit more then they would on a GTI. There's definitely a potential market for these cars in North America; and I don't think it's limited to the niche VW loyalists. 



_Modified by andie68 at 3:49 PM 6-14-2009_


----------



## TechEd (Nov 11, 2000)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (andie68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *andie68* »_.....VW's argument now is primarily that the economy is weak and that's the argument driving no export of the Scirocco. 

The weak economy is *not* the reason for non-export to the US. The reason is the unfavorable exchange rate between the Euro and the US dollar. You can have a crap economy, but still have a favourable exchange rate with other currencies. 
For example: If a Eurozone import item unit cost is €20,000, at the current exchange of US $1.40 your actual unit cost is US $28,000 each. Should your local market volume be 5,000 units, you book an immediate loss of US $40 million. Even if you mark up the price to your dealers to US $28,000, and they further add their MSRP margin, you may end up with a retail price that is above what is acceptable for the competitive market. Your sales volume risk increases and you only break even as the importer. But, your ledger still contains overhead costs like employee salaries and health insurance, vendor contracts, building leases, yearly certification costs etc. While the following example is extremely oversimplified, it does illustrate the fundamental challenge for any importer of Eurozone products, and was likely a part of the failed business case for the US Scirocco.
In addition to the exchange rate challenges, also remember that factories always charge more for small volumes of many different build variants than they do for large volumes of fewer build variants. That’s why a choice of 2,500 6-speed and 2,500 DSG was a deal-breaker for the MKV R32.
Please don't shoot the messenger. I spent a week in Germany with a new Scirocco and completley fell in love with the car. As an empty nester now, I'd tracde my 911 project (rotisserie and all) for a Scirocco in a heartbeat as it would make a killer autocross car. However, the dead auto market in the US is not fruitful grounds for the Scirocco or any other mid-premium two-door sport coupe right now. A serious view of the purchase demographic for the Scirocco in the US reveals only a very small percentage of fence-sitters for the sedan-based Asian 4-door performance models, and even fewer as part of VWAGs export business. *But this is completely irrelevant* because the US Dollar performs so poorly relative to the Euro. *It wouldn’t matter if they sold 10 or 50,000 Scirocco (….or Rabbit, or GTI or CC or Tiquan), they’d lose money on each and every one of them.* VWGoAs trickle profit from Mexican Jetta and New Beetle is likely to help, but VWGoA has posted nothing but loss since 2002, so this trickle obviously can't fully cover Euro-based red ink. 
It's no surprise then, that all German parent companies no longer want to, or can afford to subsidize the exchange-based losses at their US importer subsidiaries. While that’s the main rationale behind the Chattanooga plant (and BMW and Mercedes plants in the US), profits from local production will only come from significant volumes of core product, not small volume niche. It is only core volume profits of local production that makes small voulme import of niche models viable ...so be patient.
It bears repeating that, compared to most, VWAG and VWGoA are among the least affected by recent economic events, and one of the reasons for this is because they learned to not live beyond their means. VWGoA does not need a car like the Scirocco to be successful; they’re doing better than most without it on core product alone.
Detlef Wittig’s Statement regarding the Scirocco for the US is very simple and, one would think, easy to grasp. Quote: _“At the current exchange rate there's no point, there's no profitability there." _The math is irrefutable and the decision is made. Time to move on.


_Modified by TechEd at 1:11 PM 6-15-2009_


----------



## CChaos (May 30, 2003)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (TechEd)*

It's a beautiful design.
Considering the questionable way they've played the US market they should just bring everything and see what they can sell...


----------



## VWturbo2Ltr (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (TechEd)*

setting aside your addiction to the hater-aide, tech.
why don't you use that enormous brain of yours and tell us why is VW selling any vehicles in the us??? according to you vw is losing profits left and right. BTW when i say limited production i mean limit it to one year of production







typical of an engineer to WAY over think the most simple of suggestions. 
I am glad i didn't post "what is the best way to walk around a city block" i am sure you would come on here half cocked and spit out all kinds of specs, measurements, tolerances, drag coefficients, & speed calculations, hell you would probably even through in there the load capacities of the sidewalk





























when the correct answer is......... you put one foot in front of the other























p.s. stay the hell off a forum if all you are going to do is come on here and spit the hate. and since you seem to have time on your hands take a look at the definition of an enthusiast, and then bugger off


----------



## GTI_LUV (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (VWturbo2Ltr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWturbo2Ltr* »_setting aside your addiction to the hater-aide, tech.

p.s. stay the hell off a forum if all you are going to do is come on here and spit the hate. and since you seem to have time on your hands take a look at the definition of an enthusiast, and then bugger off









One moronic statement after another http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
All he has done is contribute information, facts, and REASONS why the car isn't coming here. All you have done is thought of an irrational idea and backed it up with insulting comments. The only hate is that of which you are spreading.


----------



## VWturbo2Ltr (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (GTI_LUV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI_LUV* »_
One moronic statement after another http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


















_Quote, originally posted by *GTI_LUV* »_

All he has done is contribute information, facts 


Just so we are all clear, his "facts" are based on speculation
to his credit it does make for some interesting reading material. Mostly i am very entertained with this guys approach to all this, typical for an engineer.......lol


----------



## VWturbo2Ltr (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (GTI_LUV)*

I am just curious LUV, in your words why do you think this is such an irrational idea <-------- not hating, its just, i am curious, cuz once upon a time it was an irrational idea to think the world was round







i did not start this post thinking that VW would all of the suddon change their mind and bring the scirroco to the states. so forgive me when i find it blown WAYYYYYY out of proportion (although interesting) with he's long posts of what he has read on what he construes as pertanent. I tried to post to let him under stand the simplicity of the origns of this post. but he kept on so i decided to have a bit of fun with it







then you chimed in and had to go and ruin my fun


----------



## GTI_LUV (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (VWturbo2Ltr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWturbo2Ltr* »_I am just curious LUV, in your words why do you think this is such an irrational idea <-------- not hating, its just, i am curious, cuz once upon a time it was an irrational idea to think the world was round







i did not start this post thinking that VW would all of the suddon change their mind and bring the scirroco to the states. so forgive me when i find it blown WAYYYYYY out of proportion (although interesting) with he's long posts of what he has read on what he construes as pertanent. I tried to post to let him under stand the simplicity of the origns of this post. but he kept on so i decided to have a bit of fun with it







then you chimed in and had to go and ruin my fun









I guess I see your point. In regards to my statement "irrational idea" I was referring to you thinking TechEd is not an enthusiast, and also that he is spreading hatred - which I really think is false. I think everyone here wants a Scirocco. But I believe that everyone here = a very small percentage of possible purchasers. I'd rather not see a Scirocco here in the US- than see a limited production run- and have something go terribly financialy wrong with VWoA. The latter would be more severe I think. But Im not a number cruncher








P.S. Sorry for the "moronic" statement- I win the douchebaggery award http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif 
Edit because the word Scirocco is too hard for me to type



_Modified by GTI_LUV at 3:55 PM 6-16-2009_


----------



## VWturbo2Ltr (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (GTI_LUV)*

I understand Tech's posts on how VW is hemorrhaging its profits. He clearly states that the GTI is a looser on the profits & loses table. ThenIn my opinion What does VW have to loose by bringing over the scirocco. Bare minimum they stand to sell just as many Scirocco's as GTI's. I just get the feeling (from the demeanor of tech posts) that he, along with VW has forgotten that their most loyal customer base grew on the shoulders of us enthusiasts. And at point in their future history, are loosing ground to Honda, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota. Although the later has not offered a true enthusiast vehicle since the Supra..... again, MY opinion. Now look at the domestics' offerings all going retro with their latest mustang, camero, challenger, to name a few. The shear clout of these namesakes & the popularity. I am of the mindset that feels that VW too has a retro vehicle they can offer to their fans...... some sort of incarnation of the Corrado or Scirocco. Does it seem odd that the rest of the world gets to partake in the Scirocco legacy. It just does not sit right with me that the equation reads: Scirocco + rest of the world = profit but bring it to north america it equals huge loses. Again this is my point of view. VW needs to stop making dumb decisions i.e. MKV R32 offered ONLY in automatic........... Yep VW lost their asses on that decision. Ask yourself, what if they brought it over in ONLY 6 speed manual???? Or both??? I just cant help but feel that VW is making their decision to bring the current model offerings to north america based on the performance of such flops as the MKV R32, Phaeton, just to name a couple of examples. The platform did not fail, VW failed...... they failed to give the consumer what they wanted. Tech said that the consumer is not always right. I disagree...STRONGLY! Although his statement has some truth, (very little) but that is more like the exception rather than a rule. Once a company stops making a product the consumer is no longer interested in...... guess what, the consumer finds a company that does make the product they are looking for. Now I am in no way saying that vw does not make a product that nobody wants, they still make a nice product, but in my opinion, GTI vs Scirocco, the Scirocco has it









and this one is for Tech ---->


----------



## andie68 (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (VWturbo2Ltr)*

I agree the decision to bring only an automatic version of the R32 was a bad call by VW. But I would hardly classify it as a flop. VW enthusiasts bought the car, are selling the car, and others are buying it as a used car. I think the interest in performance cars with paddle shifters vs. a true manual is growing. (I wonder whether those who bought the R32 feel like they are missing something with the DSG). I look at the prices for used R32s and they aren't depreciating at any faster rate than what would be expected.
As for not bringing the Scirocco to the States, I would agree - it's short sighted. There would be Subaru converts like myself who would buy it, Scirocco enthusiasts, VW enthusiasts, and anybody who wanted an exceptionally well made car for a heck of a lot less money than a 128i or 135i. I think what will happen instead is people who want to buy a performance car stock, will have to look elsewhere because there are a lot of options now at reasonable prices. The GTI is a great car (beautfiully appointed) but it doesn't compete performance wise with the new WRX, Mazdaspeed 3, Lancer Ralliart - all of the manufacturers are upping the ante on their cars. I don't understand why VW doesn't enhance its performance. If they aren't going to offer the Scirocco or Scirocco R, why not answer the competition with the GTI? 




_Modified by andie68 at 9:09 PM 6-16-2009_


----------



## Zwei Bora Tdi (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (TechEd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TechEd* »_
Also, don't go comparing small volume Asians (different currency challenges) and upmarket German product business to Scirocco potentials. Regardless of volume, the reason that Audi and Porsche are profitable is becasue customers that actually end up buying their cars (not the dreamers and wannabies tha hang out here), tolerate the markups that fuel the corporate margins.
_Modified by TechEd at 4:45 PM 6-8-2009_

According to sales records the Asian car makers aren't "SMALL VOLUME". When you have a Government Subsidizing imports then the Germans can't compete either. The exchange rate for the Euro is the reason why we have a plant in Puebla Mexico. The Euro v.s. the Dollar will be bad for the next few years, so I guess according to your logic, VW won't be able to sell coupes? But Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, and everyone else can sell a 2 door coupe but you think otherwise?


----------



## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (Zwei Bora Tdi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zwei Bora Tdi* »_
According to sales records the Asian car makers aren't "SMALL VOLUME". When you have a Government Subsidizing imports then the Germans can't compete either. The exchange rate for the Euro is the reason why we have a plant in Puebla Mexico. The Euro v.s. the Dollar will be bad for the next few years, so I guess according to your logic, VW won't be able to sell coupes? But Subaru,*Hyundai*, Kia, Toyota, and everyone else can sell a 2 door coupe but you think otherwise?











ooh baby i http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif me a Genesis.

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


----------



## steaguejr (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (The Hustler)*

Does VWoA even read about what we want. Just curious?


----------



## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (steaguejr)*


----------



## caj1 (Feb 16, 1999)

Wow - someone took the time to break it down with all the relevant facts and some of you still don't get it. 
Typical for the US culture - give it to me now.


----------



## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: (caj1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *caj1* »_Typical for the US culture - give it to me now.


F'n A!!! give it to me NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## LoneStar99 (Mar 15, 2009)

i want a R20T with AWD http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## gizmo76 (May 26, 2005)

does anyone remember what the vw was geared toward... at all?
peoples car... not the rich mans car.. with that said the compremise of people not being able to afford a vw due to the thoughts that they should head towards luxury and an upper middle class is a bit lame. 
The reason why i say this is because the back bone of the company is the customers they always appealed to. My family has preaty much always bought a vw and can afford to purchase new ones, but the people who TechEd say are dreamers because they cant afford a new vw are infact the consumers that vw should stay providing affordable cars to. 
anywho yes i do feel that the scirocco should come to the states. Even if it takes 2 years and its some what affordable, i do understand that its a sports car kinda but i do feel they would make a ton of sales if they kept it in the 20 to 25k mid range so that the dreamers can stop dreaming and finaly afford a car they can enjoy. If not theres always american cars that do bring more of a power package for less( but i love vw's ) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

http://people.westminstercolle...y.htm


_Modified by gizmo76 at 2:02 PM 7-18-2009_


----------



## mr lee (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: (gizmo76)*

Dear VWoA, can I buy one of the US Spec test Scirocco that have been spotted in Ca, Az, Tx and even in the parking lot of VWoA ?
please?


----------



## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: (mr lee)*

i'll take the black one!!

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


----------



## 85yota (May 5, 2009)

*Re: (darkstarbfd)*

I have a buddy who just shipped his mustang from Ramstein Germany and it cost him $700. I know this is not doable for most but with us military guys if we are in the country for 30 days or more you buy the car tax free. I want one sooooooo BAD!!!!!!


----------



## cetanepusher (Mar 24, 2008)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (The Hustler)*

The problem with VW is they need to start building them here. Toyota is now #1 because they build them here, and don't have ridiculous pensions like the big 3 did. 
The downfall with the Big 3 is the Auto Unions, and the stupid high pensions and pay scale. Why pay Billy Joe $40 and hour to mount wheels on new cars???? Just because he's been doing it for 15 years means he's an idiot, and all he's good at is mounting wheels... 
They should builda Lupo at the new eastcoast plant, and attack the Smartcar and Scion Market. 
Build a Scirroco here as the next gen GTI, and the MK6 as a 4 door hatch and sedan. Ditch the Phaeton, and the routan, and build something similar to the Dodge/MBZ sprinter, and call it a Microbus. 
Keep the Tiguan, but offer it in AWD w/ a TDI, and take over the FJ H3 and Jeep market. 
Offer a clean TDi in EVERY Chassis, as Diesel hybrids will be the next BIG thing. 
The one thing I have noticed about every car manufacturer is, they do one niche well, and all other models suck. 
VW has the model base and the technolgy to capture multiple Niche's if they would just pull thier head out of thier @$$ and stop switching CEO's like they were manual transmissions.


----------



## sox1_4eva (May 30, 2006)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (TechEd)*

cliff notes version ?


----------



## o2bavr6 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (VWturbo2Ltr)*

I think VW could make everyone happy and still not impact GTI sales. Instead of the new Golf R32 or Golf R20, send us the Scirocco R20 with AWD.


----------



## cetanepusher (Mar 24, 2008)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (o2bavr6)*

nah, the 2.0FSI motor is garbage. Extremely High Failure rate, versus the 1.8T and higher lemon returns. 
You'll see the 2.5FSI before you'll see more 2.0FSI.


----------



## o2bavr6 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (cetanepusher)*

isn't that the 2.0 TFSI 260HP engine in the current Scirocco R20? I would way rather see the turbo 2.5 5cyl but that will never happen.


----------



## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (cetanepusher)*

Due to the chassie the Scirocco is built on, you will never see an AWD Scirocco.
Also, since it is built in Portugal, you wont see a 2,5 either, none of VW's cars in Europe uses this engine


----------



## o2bavr6 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (1,3LG60)*

That's a shame, because I try to avoid FWD cars at all cost








Too bad to because the lease on my wife's Passat is ending and I sure would have liked an AWD Scirocco.
I've owned a Scirocco, 3 GTI's, a Jetta, a Passat, and a 2004 R32. I would have been more than happy to send the money VW's way for a new car, when I sold the R32, but there was no model in the line up with enough HP... for me that is. So I bought a BMW 335i.
Not sure what VW's thoughts are, but in the USA there is not a huge following for VW, but the followers they have are usually very loyal.
I for the life of me cant figure why they would not offer one model that has at least 350 HP. How hard could it be to take a current R32 and add a factory turbo to it and sell it for $35K!!


----------



## dirtylowslo (Jul 1, 2007)

*Re: Dear VWoA......................... (The Hustler)*

i would drop everything and get to a dealer if vw brought it to the us.


----------



## gizmo76 (May 26, 2005)

i would trade in both my balls for one... o yeah


----------

