# How-to install a LOUD BOV without car running terrible.



## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

*ALL THIS IS DONE ON A CAR THAT COULD NEVER RUN AN OPEN ATMOSPHERE DV OR BOV WITHOUT PROBLEMS.*

THIS JETTA IS RUNNING A 2.5" DOWNPIPE AND A 2.5" TURNDOWN BEFORE THE REAR TIRES. I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN THE VOLUME OTHER THAN TELLING YOU TO REMOVE YOUR CAT-BACK. THERE IS NO POINT IN COMPARING THIS TO YOUR STREET LEGAL EXHAUST/DV. 







Ok I'll try to clear up the whole DV/BOV thing on 1.8t's We all know what the factory set-up looks like. Everyone wants to know why they can't just open atmosphere there factory DV? Well for years everyone asumed is was the blowing off of already measuered air that was tripping "check engine lights" and causing poor running conditions.The Blow off isn't ideal but it's not the problem. The problem is our factory DV's are designed to be open during idle.This allows the engine to bypass air past the turbo for better throttle response.All the time all incoming air is being measured by the MAF.If you simply make your DV open atmosphere you are letting you engine suck in unmeasured air thru your DV.

Yes you can run a very heavy springed open atmosphere aftermarket BOV but with several problems.You are no longer letting your engine bypass the turbo and you have a BOV that is useless on partial thottle.If your car has an idle Vacuum of 20 that means it needs to spike even lower to open the BOV.You can see how this is no good if you have a vac gauge in your car and drive it around normally for a few minutes.An extremely heavy BOV spring is equal to just removing the BOV when it comes to normal driving.I'm not bashing all the guys with this set-up,just explaing how it works.









A good boost/vac Guage.

The solution for all the people who just want to run there factory DV or even any aftermarket BOV open atmosphere is to simply stop the engine from being able to intake air thru the open DV/BOV.This allows you to run any factory DV or any aftermarket light spring BOV.This set-up will give everyone that's been asking for years a loud factory DV and more importantly help people who bought aftermarket BOV's only to find they don't work.










Get a 1/2 or 3/4 inch check valve like this from Lowes for about 8 bucks and install it so that air can go out your BOV/DV and not in. I'll show a bunch of pics and videos tomarrow if anyone cares.This works 100% and I did it today on my heavily modded jetta. The noise from my open DV was deafening and made everyone look at me. And my car didn't throw any codes or run any different than it does with the DV venting into my intake. I just pulled my DV out of the intake plugged the hole and installed the one-way valve on my DV. took me 2 minutes in lowes parking lot and now I have a super ricer BOV. Leave a comment if you need better instructions. I named it the "JohnsonMOD" *WOOOOSH*


Here are some pics of a simple one done. I suggest getting a high flowing check vavle. Also if you want to push the limits on noise you could carefully drill holes in the sides of the DV or even cut-off the out going nipple. But most of this stuff should be done by some one with some mechanical knowledge. And it's all of course at your own risk.










List from Lowes 
3/4'' spring loaded check valve = $11.43
3/4" pipe nipple = $0.98
3/4" pvc plug = $0.60








I cut off some of the DV nipple and it threaded tight. I'm not going into great detail on this because if you don't get it you should get a friend or someone to help you. Just make sure the check valve is facing the right direction and everything is sealed air tight. The more air your check valve can flow the louder and better the dv will work so if you are going for plain loud get a big high air flow check valve.Maybe get some high temp black paint.









Made this guy for my friend out of a spare factory dv...going to try it tomarrow.
It's called a "1"x1" Female adapter, solder x barb" $3.38 at lowes *presses right into DV snug.

Q:"wow. you said it yourself..ricer. a lot of 1.8ts dont throw codes with a regular bov and run fine. at least now you can connect that thing to your garden hose. i heard thats at least 25hp, better than the decal mod if you ask me "
A: Let me dumb down a quick explaination. Everyone thinks that open atmosphere DV 1.8t's throw codes bc of the blow-off...but in fact they throw codes bc when in vacuum the DV is open allowing the engine to suck unmetered air in. If you can run an open atmosphere BOV or DV it's either because the spring is to heavy or you have a vacuum leak. I'll post video of it tomarrow. I don't intend on keeping it on my car but it's an awesome thing for people who have been asking for loud DV's for years. Grainger and many other companies sell very nice looking check valves if a loud BOV/DV is your thing and you want it to look better. It's not my thing,but I know tons of people will really apreciate this information. If you have reasonable knowedge of cars you can go to your local hardware store and try it for 10-15 bucks. I have the ability to make my DV loud or quiet in a few seconds for 15 bucks and I decided to share the idea with everyone. Kinda hard to laugh at that. *It's easy to get check valves that look better*....."Jasc-Controls"









Q: "i dont see the reason to bash so much here..... "
A: People bash on forums because they don't have the stones to stand-up for anything in real life.

Q: "i can't believe i clicked on this... i guess im a sucker for stupid crap"
A: Yes, but this should have been noticeable when you listed "Cranked Wastegate" in your sig as a car mod.:thumb:

Q: "I think an adjustable valve that doesn't open at idle seems like less work and not quite so hideous under the hood"
A: Good thinking...but a Solenoid hooked to an Rpm activated switch will cost maybe 60 bucks but more importantly will still cause codes and surging under normal driving.Like when on the highway.We used to use solenoids and rpm switches to make really cool rpm activated 2+ stage boost controllers back in the 2.2 turbo fwd dodge forum days. This is hideous but it was just to test it and make sure it works fine. 

You could put this in the 3/4 inch hose heading from the turbo to the DV and be looking good. I just picked up one cheap that has an completely unresticted quality to try my idea.I might make a good looking one this weekend but really i like my DV quiet most of the time. Doing this mod Made it WAY too loud for me.

Q: "This guy know what he's talking about. I have been running an hks ssqv for a few years now and the only reason it works fine is because its a dual stage bov. Its closed at idle so it doesnt create a huge vacuum leak. This is a "ghetto" way to achieve the same thing."
A: EXACTLY. This for everyone who can't afford or justify buying an expensive BOV that might not even work on there car.Good imformation for everyone who did buy one and it didn't work.(I tryed BRAND-X bov and it had to be set waaaaay to stiff to work on my 1.8t.)My vac is around 21-22 at idle. So you basically have no partial throttle BOV.

Unless you are running a blow-thru MAF some how on your 1.8t The factory DV or Forge 007 are you best performance options. But it's not all about performance for some people.Some people are happy to just crank there wastegate as oppossed to spending several thousand dollars like i did to get more boost the right way. Really there are no performance gains for stretched tires or cars slammed on airbags only losses. But I like to try to be respectful of everyone's cars as we are all proud of them. But I do draw the line at this guy.




















*This squirrel stopped trying to cause drama on forums and went outside to face the real world.*


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## static.20v (Jan 4, 2010)

in


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## .LSinLV. (Nov 13, 2009)

really?


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## gtijun (Jul 17, 2008)

I have to see this!


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## mk4vrjtta (Feb 3, 2007)

wow. you said it yourself..ricer. a lot of 1.8ts dont throw codes with a regular bov and run fine. at least now you can connect that thing to your garden hose. i heard thats at least 25hp, better than the decal mod if you ask me


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## danny4756 (Feb 9, 2010)

so what is the difference from just running open dv?


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## black lavender (Aug 5, 2005)

possibly the dumbest thread I've ever seen here in 5 years


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## luckylindy03 (Sep 19, 2009)

i can't believe i clicked on this... i guess im a sucker for stupid crap


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## no vtec 4me (Aug 1, 2006)

i dont see the reason to bash so much here.....


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## Jetta02AWP (Feb 27, 2003)

I think an adjustable valve that doesn't open at idle seems like less work and not quite so hideous under the hood


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## luckylindy03 (Sep 19, 2009)

JohnsonMOD said:


> Q: "i can't believe i clicked on this... i guess im a sucker for stupid crap"
> A: Yes, but this should have been noticeable when you listed "Cranked Wastegate" in your sig as a car mod.:thumb:


im sorry i dont really go for the "lets piss people off with an obnoxious BOV"... im more into the "get all you can squeeze out of the hairdryer for a turbo" type of person. So yes cranked wastegate is in my sig. A perfectly great mod, for free! Nothing wrong with squeezing a few more PSI of boost


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## EJPolaski (Sep 24, 2008)

nice chunk of metal you got there


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## BigTimBigTurbo (Aug 13, 2007)

in for pics of set up and nude high school chicks


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## gtx4tec (Oct 20, 2009)

+10 more HP with this, and a small monkey under the hood with fast hands.


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## drumr (Jul 18, 2007)




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## BrockMyles (May 13, 2008)

page 2 
in for pics


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## mbg_euros (Feb 14, 2008)




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## IcanA4dIt (Jul 9, 2007)

This guy know what he's talking about. I have been running an hks ssqv for a few years now and the only reason it works fine is because its a dual stage bov. Its closed at idle so it doesnt create a huge vacuum leak. This is a "ghetto" way to achieve the same thing. 

OP just found another piece of home depot equipment to put on our cars when there are products designed for the same exact thing like the forge 2-diaphragm bov and the ssqv.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

Doing a better looking install pics will be up tomarrow. Just went out cruising at 22-24 psi and everything works fine.


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## JettaDude123 (Feb 8, 2004)

Not trying to hate, but I've got a stock dv and a cai and my car sounds just like that :/

No madness mods needed.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

JettaDude123 said:


> Not trying to hate, but I've got a stock dv and a cai and my car sounds just like that :/
> 
> No madness mods needed.


Your car in no way sounds like that. Try turning the volume way up on the video. My car is VERY loud. I'm running an open 2.5 pipe that turns down before the rear tires. If you make your dv open atmosphere and go for a short drive you will see that it's alot louder. This thread isn't about volumes....everyone already knows an open atmosphere DV is louder,sadly the volume of my exhaust kinda makes a bad video example. Go try an open DV for a few minutes and if you like it and want your car to run normal and make that loud blow-off ......


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## black lavender (Aug 5, 2005)

Car sounds EXACTLY like mine when I had a cold air intake...I even turned the volume up


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

blasian said:


> "possibly the dumbest thread I've ever seen here in 5 years"


It's easily twice as loud as my forge 007 running into my short ram set-up. 15,000 posts and still not one useful or helpful thing to say. But you keep argue'n that an open atmosphere dv is not any louder.....I'll look at all your past posts on VWvortex and just consider the source. You can and probably will post something even *stupider* to try and start forum troll drama with me but I'll just ignore you from this point on. And end by asking you nicely to stop spamming up everyones posts with useless negative comments.


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## Spiller337 (Nov 27, 2009)

JohnsonMOD said:


> It's easily twice as loud as my forge 007 running into my short ram set-up. .


So is a dv and a cold air intake.


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## JoeyVR6 (Feb 22, 2008)

JohnsonMOD said:


> You can and probably will post something even *stupiter*.


nice.


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## Kiddie Rimzo (Feb 21, 2008)

JoeyVR6 said:


> nice.


lolol beat me to it. 
car sounds like **** imo, but hey, props for being happy about your setup


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## shrykFC3S (Jul 10, 2009)

My dahlback racing DV is WAY louder than that. run it in the correct (read:relocated) place and orientation, and run it from direct manifold vacuum.

It scares children and the elderly.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

Spiller337 said:


> So is a dv and a cold air intake.


Forge 007 and a short ram isn't a dv and a cold air intake? ..... I'm lost...


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## Spiller337 (Nov 27, 2009)

JohnsonMOD said:


> Forge 007 and a short ram isn't a dv and a cold air intake? ..... I'm lost...


Do you know the difference between a SHORT-RAM intake and a cold air intake?


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

JohnsonMod - It's easily twice as loud as my forge 007 running into my short ram set-up. .
Spiller337 - So is a dv and a cold air intake.

this is where I got confused...maybe we misunderstood each other... you are saying your DV and cold air intake are twice as loud as my forge 007 and my short ram?
Bc when I said "It's twice as loud" I am referring to the open atmosphere DV....as it's twice as loud as my forge and short ram. A factory dv and a cold air intake are not really loud at all but the are loud enough to be kinda heard with a quiet exhaust. I think most people are failing to realize my car isn't street legal by a long shot. NO cat..revo stage II and a 2.5" turn down in place of the cat-back. I was a bit forgetful that most of you don't even know what a LOUD car sounds like. This set-up is for pure HP. I could care less about impressing Scott Tetterman when I leave the school parking lot. Go outside,take your cat-back off and post a video of your DV.


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## black lavender (Aug 5, 2005)

JohnsonMOD said:


> It's easily twice as loud as my forge 007 running into my short ram set-up. 15,000 posts and still not one useful or helpful thing to say. But you keep *argue'n* that an open atmosphere dv is not any louder.....I'll look at all your past posts on VWvortex and just consider the source. You can and probably will post something even *stupiter *to try and start forum troll drama with me but I'll just ignore you from this point *on. And* end by asking you nicely to stop spamming up everyones posts with useless negative comments.


you win


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

blasian said:


> you win


You corrected all my fast don't care typing errors....then wrote that? If you only see three things wrong in that post we are both idiots.How does any of this have to do with VW's? And explain to me how your cold air intake and dv are just as loud as an open atmosphere dv? I'm really not getting into a spellcheck fight. I'm here for love of VW.


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

Can I do this on my 2.0???


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

Jay-Bee said:


> Can I do this on my 2.0???


 yes, you can run three for triple powa!


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

Jay-Bee said:


> Can I do this on my 2.0???


If you are serious....the answer would be no.


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## gtx4tec (Oct 20, 2009)

You want the extra air from the DV to go back into the system to help equalize the air pressure on the turbo.

Or....you can stress out the turbo, and go for a pssh sound that gets really tired after a few weeks.

"I saw it on fast and the furious man, it was so rad...it changed my life"


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

gtx4tec said:


> You want the extra air from the DV to go back into the system to help equalize the air pressure on the turbo.
> 
> Or....you can stress out the turbo, and go for a pssh sound that gets really tired after a few weeks.
> 
> "I saw it on fast and the furious man, it was so rad...it changed my life"


I'm not a huge fan of the pssssh but it's cool thing to have sometimes....and that stuff you said about equalizing air pressure is questionable and should be pointed out.The air vented by your DV into the vacuum created by your turbo...is equal to spitting into the ocean.I do agree the factory set-up is best for the life of your turbo. That being said anyone running any aftermarket chip is shortening there turbo life drastically. But that is an arguement for another thread and I think has been covered a bunch.But thank you for actually contributing some useful thoughts....And what you say does make sense but I would definetly have to argue that in the scheme of things it's not nearly harmful enough to be afraid of. Many people have been running HKS SSQ with really heavy springs vented open atmoshere for tens of thousands of miles trouble free. It's nice to hear input from someone who understands and apreciates the complex design of our 1.8t DV system.All of the sounds on Fast and the furious are added in later and most are not even real.


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## sn34r (Mar 29, 2005)

8/10 troll. Under-hood pics with copper pipe would have been more convincing.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

sn34r said:


> 8/10 troll. Under-hood pics with copper pipe would have been more convincing.


hmmm...










I guess I could take some pics of me holding todays paper....with a local celeb and 3 proofs of I.D.
Seams odd to go to Lowes and buy/price check all the parts twice now........


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

The bigger uglier swingcheck valve is louder bc it clearly flows more air than this round one in the pic.But this round one basically has and adjustable spring in it(making it completely smooth on partial throttle) ....going to paint this set-up flat black and keep it in my glove box if i ever want a loud dv. Didn't post alot of pics bc all I'm getting is neg responses. Sadly this works PERFECTLY.


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

you sir, have hairy arms.


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## Do Werk (Feb 23, 2009)




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## ryan andrews (May 13, 2010)

I'm gonna try it out worse case I'm out a few bucks and se time


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

ryan andrews said:


> I'm gonna try it out worse case I'm out a few bucks and se time


So far I would suggest you buy a 3/4"" swing valve and thread it right on a spare stock DV. This will produce crazy noise and doesn't throw and check engine lights or stall my car. But there is ever so slight quirks in partial throttle....but they might be because of some of my mods. Maybe the Apexi boost controller....it tends to do partial throttle boost creeps and such.








The spring loaded 3/4 check valve I'm messing with now is slightly quieter but works flawlessly. As it tends to stayed sealed better under light vacuum. Going to play with it and take more vids and pics tomarrow.

I know it's a 1/2" valve and pipe in the pic but you will want 3/4" for both. I would get the quieter spring loaded valve if you intend on keeping it installed. But if you are just going to throw it on every now and then for loud fun get the swing valve.


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## ryan andrews (May 13, 2010)

I'm gonna wait until your done testing the different parts before I buy. I like noise as long as it's not hurting my ride. Any other easy ideas orvmods you have you want to share


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

Like I said the 3/4" spring loaded valve works flawlessly. I'll post more pics and stuff tomarrow. I'm just kinda refining it now but it works 100%. Costs about 12 bucks for the 3/4" spring loaded valve and you can just buy two 3/4"x maybe 3 or 4" long steel pipes,a 3/4" pvc plug,a foot of 1" i.d. rubber hose, and maybe a few hose clamps. Plug the hole where the DV went into your intake.Thread both 3/4" pipes in each end of the valve tightly. Put the valve into the factory 1" rubber line from the turbo. Put a 3" piece of 1" I.D. rubber hose from the check valve to your open DV. That's a temporary way to try it out or make it removable. Should cost way less than 20 bucks. 

I keep seeing people comment about "ghetto" and "Cheap". There is nothing wrong with being poor or doing low budget mods. I'm running a $600 boost controller on top of a revo stage II ecu flash. I'm not doing this bc I'm poor I'm doing it bc I enjoy working on cars outside of work.I have had plenty of friends ask me to help them do cheap mods on there cars bc they spend all there cash on there kids and families.I feal bad for making fun of the girl with the "cranked wastegate" but she kinda had it coming.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

where I'm at now with this...

I took a factory DV and made it able to be run open atmosphere (louder) for less than 20 bucks. It throws no codes and other than blowing off louder than a Forge007 and a short ram,causes no issues on my 1.8t.








I'll try to get a video of the sound tomarrow.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

MooneyRJ said:


> mine sounds louder with a forge dv and intake. plus its how the car is supposed to run


I would not be shocked if your DV compared to your exhaust is louder than my DV compared to my lack of exhaust. I'm not putting an exhaust on my car just to show how loud this set-up is. My 60lbs of fuel injection and 24psi of boost are not how the car is supposed to run.My boost guage stops at 20psi,but I know I can get 24psi bc my boost controller wired into my cars computer wiring harness and monitoring things like fuel injector pulse tells me. I am not scared of going outside the box on how my cars supposed to run.There's nothing wrong with staying close to factory but it's not for me.Anyone can bolt a few things on there car and take pictures.

I'm writing this and trying not to be offensive. What you have simply isn't louder. Go outside,open atmosphere your dv and plug the hole.It's going to idle like crud but you will hear a way louder DV.


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## ryan andrews (May 13, 2010)

What's the brass piece? Is that a different setup that your working on? What did you use to plug the hole up? The PVC 3/4" cap and a hose clamp?


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

It's just a 1"x1" solder on horn looking thing i put on a DV to make it look Bov for fun...I have plenty of old DV's to play with.Yes 3/4 pvc cap with a defined lip so theres no way it could go into the intake. And I drove around all day today with the spring loaded check valve/open DV in the picture above with no problems.


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## ryan andrews (May 13, 2010)

So do I need the brass piece. Going to lowes after work .


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## ManikGTI (May 18, 2009)

That is an interesting way to bypass it but that is actually hindering the car from what i hear. The Dv that recirculates the air back through the intake this helps keep momentum in the turbo when you left of the gas to shift which creates a faster spool in the next gear. Correct me if im wrong. Dont get me wrong i love the WOOOSH! i have a splitter on my car right now and it blows off really loud aswell.


-Frank WOOSH!!


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

ryan andrews said:


> So do I need the brass piece. Going to lowes after work .


No you don't need the little brass bell,and you don't need to harm our DV in any way if you buy the right pieces.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

ManikGTI said:


> That is an interesting way to bypass it but that is actually hindering the car from what i hear. The Dv that recirculates the air back through the intake this helps keep momentum in the turbo when you left of the gas to shift which creates a faster spool in the next gear. Correct me if im wrong. Dont get me wrong i love the WOOOSH! i have a splitter on my car right now and it blows off really loud aswell.
> 
> 
> -Frank WOOSH!!


Yes it is very interesting. The diverter valve in no way gives your turbo more power by blowing air into it.What you are getting into here will get very long winded and probably confusing. The main funtion of your DV is to be a quiet BOV with the ability to keep perfect tabs on your air/fuel ratio. It is an amazing piece of technology. It's design let's it use a really light spring ideal for light partial throttle usage. It also has the ability to let air bypass the turbo for smoother drivability.The blow-off compared to even idle exhaust pressure spinning the turbo is to small to measure. And if your DV could actually do this, it would be doing more harm in so many ways than good.Turbo's normally spin at 10x the speed of your engine and our little turbo don't need help spinning. The main funtion of a DV is just to stop boost pressure spiking quietly when your throttle plate closes suddenly.A Forge 007 is just a way nicer built DV with a slightly heavier spring.Any open BOV with a spring heavy enough to run ok on a 1.8t actually does more harm than this set-up.Of course the amount of harm is so small it's really not worth caring about.Unless you are road racing or something and really trying to squeeze every inch of performance out of your car. I almost bought a splitter once but the guy told me they have nothing but problems with them and he wouldn't suggest it.

This set-up is being flamed by people who spend alot on there set-ups and want everyone to think spending alot is better than knowing alot.I spent ALOT on my set-up and theres nothing wrong with just being happy bolting stuff on.I worked for years as an auto mechanic and now I'm now doing composite aerospace work.I say this so people know this idea isn't coming from a 17 year-old kid from a trailer park.


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## rcbaker (Aug 13, 2009)

you thread it right onto the plastic dv?
then the threaded steel pipe just goes into the hose?


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

rcbaker said:


> you thread it right onto the plastic dv?
> then the threaded steel pipe just goes into the hose?


Yes I cut the dv plastic nipple shorter and threaded the 3/4 "valve on it with a few dots of sealant. I used a 3/4" piece of pipe on the other end for the hose to go on. I should make it clear that this is just my rough and fast way of doing it and it's really up to you to make it look good. You can install the valve before your DV without hurting your dv.I have tons of ideas and plenty of spare DV's to mess with so I might go make a louder one today. The more free flowing the valve the louder it gets. The swing valve works the loudest but has some partial throttle quirks.


"Like I said the 3/4" spring loaded valve works flawlessly. I'll post more pics and stuff tomarrow. I'm just kinda refining it now but it works 100%. Costs about 12 bucks for the 3/4" spring loaded valve and you can just buy two 3/4"x maybe 3 or 4" long steel pipes,a 3/4" pvc plug,a foot of 1" i.d. rubber hose, and maybe a few hose clamps. Plug the hole where the DV went into your intake.Thread both 3/4" pipes in each end of the valve tightly. Put the valve into the factory 1" rubber line from the turbo. Put a 3" piece of 1" I.D. rubber hose from the check valve to your open DV. That's a temporary way to try it out or make it removable. Should cost way less than 20 bucks. "


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

*A few helpful tips*

Make sure everything is very air tight. If it leaks you will lose boost and the car will try to stall alot at idle.I used a few drops of rtv sealant. A rubber hose won't seal to threads so put it onto the unthreaded center of the pipe/pipes.Cutting off the threads would be easier.

If you use the louder swing check valve,it needs to be installed in an semi upright manner with the hinge on top. Basically so the weight of the flap inside tends to help keep it closed. this is why the quieter spring loaded valve works a little smoother.

Check the valve when you buy it to make sure it's really airtight blowing thru the one way.

As someone else mentioned connecting the small line directly to the intake manafold helps a little bit also.And while you are there it doesn't hurt to really go over all your rubber lines,checking for wear and leaks.


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## ryan andrews (May 13, 2010)

got installation pics. im just an idiot when it comes to this type od stuff and dont want to fuk anything up.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

ryan andrews said:


> got installation pics. im just an idiot when it comes to this type od stuff and dont want to fuk anything up.


I guess I can post some more pics....there should be enough on here to get it done by now.You don't have any handy friends?


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

Just plug the hole in the intake pipe and put the little vacuum line back on.Make sure the check valve is pointing so it blows out.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

Just an FYI:

Your charge piping is actually slightly pressurized at idle. The exhaust gases, albeit minute, are moving fast enough to spin the compressor and create just a bit of positive pressure in the piping between the turbo and the throttle body. A vacuum only exists after the TB, not before.

Therfore, there's technically no need for a check valve in that air will never flow back in through the DV. When your DV is venting to the atmosphere it actually is pumping metered air _out of the system_ at idle - not ingesting it. 

However, the reason why your trick may work is that the cracking pressure on your check valve may be high enough to counter the small amount of pressure in the charge piping at idle.

Don't believe me...go un-hook your valve, start your car, and stick you hand over the DV port on your charge pipe.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

NOLA_VDubber said:


> Just an FYI:
> 
> Your charge piping is actually slightly pressurized at idle. The exhaust gases, albeit minute, are moving fast enough to spin the compressor and create just a bit of positive pressure in the piping between the turbo and the throttle body. A vacuum only exists after the TB, not before.
> 
> ...



Smart thinking but try hooking up a vacuum gauge to it and driving it.....you will see negative pressure occur. your throttle body is never sealed air tight. Yes there are can be two different pressures before and after the tb. This didn't occur by sticking the valve in first and realizing the prob was solved....this thread happened by finding the problem and using the valve to solve it. I would recommend installing two boost/vac guages...one before and one after the TB. Then you will see it. The exact point of the problem occurs when you let off the gas and the rpm's try to drop to idle.Also keep in mind what you do with your foot isn't what your throttle body is actually doing.It's close but ultimatly your car's ecu controls the throttle. You can see this on an Avc-r boost controller...as it monitors the throttle plate position and it can be displayed on screen.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

NOLA_VDubber said:


> Just an FYI:
> 
> Your charge piping is actually slightly pressurized at idle. The exhaust gases, albeit minute, are moving fast enough to spin the compressor and create just a bit of positive pressure in the piping between the turbo and the throttle body. A vacuum only exists after the TB, not before.
> 
> ...


My levels of vac might be higher than yours and more noticable....with having total control over my wastegate. With the wastegate hooked up factory the ECU actually controls it.Awesome thinking tho.I'm glad to see someone else on the vortex still understands how turbo's work.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

Vacuum has nothing to do with it because we are looking at the piping between the compressor and the throttle body (vacuum only occurs between the throttle body and the combustion chamber for any vehicle equipped with a TB). At idle your wastegate will be completely closed - no matter what is controlling it - so the phenomenon is not limited to folks running the stock N75 valve either.

The test is really quite simple: un-hook your diverter valve, plug the both hole in the TIP and the vacuum line to the top of the valve. Start the car and go stick your hand over the hole in the charge pipe where the DV hooks up and you will feel a nice steady stream of hot air coming out.

What i'm saying is is that your hardware is good, it's your theory that's a bit off lol

Nonetheless, as long as the cracking pressure of the valve is high enough, this should work just fine and achieve your goal


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

NOLA_VDubber said:


> Vacuum has nothing to do with it because we are looking at the piping between the compressor and the throttle body (vacuum only occurs between the throttle body and the combustion chamber for any vehicle equipped with a TB). At idle your wastegate will be completely closed - no matter what is controlling it - so the phenomenon is not limited to folks running the stock N75 valve either.
> 
> The test is really quite simple: un-hook your diverter valve, plug the both hole in the TIP and the vacuum line to the top of the valve. Start the car and go stick your hand over the hole in the charge pipe where the DV hooks up and you will feel a nice steady stream of hot air coming out.
> 
> ...


Atleast you are thinking...Where to start.... Yes it will blow air at idle but hit the gas and it's going to vac pretty hard until the turbo catches up ....but yes at a steady idle you are correct....the big part you are missing is that I'm doing it with a swing valve(not held shut at all by any thing).. and you should just hook a vac guage up to your "charge" line and go for a drive...the problem occurs when you let off the gas and the idle trys to drop back down at that point there is also a vac in your charge line.Your explanation has two big flaws, 1:turbo lag isn't possible in your world 2:I'm doing it with a swing valve. Turbo's don't constantly make a ton of boost....yes I will agree it does stay positivly charged at idle but touch the gas and it will vacuum until the turbo spools. But you are partially correct I was wrong in saying that the DV sucks air at idle....it sucks air coming off of idle,returning to idle and sometimes during driving.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

If this theory was true....the swing valve would do nothing at all. You can blow in it without it touching it to your face and open it up. Literally all it does is stop air from going into your charge pipe. The spring loaded check valve works smoother bc when your charge pipe goes from boost to vac it seals instantly. It doesn't require a good neg flow of air to pull it shut like the swing valve.Until that neg flow gets strong enough it sucks in air.....making it kinda quirky. You can take my word or go hook up some guages and try it. I don't really need anyone else telling me why what I did worked....once again I didn't just decide to hook a check valve up to my dv for fun and stumble upon this....I researched the whole "Why can't I just open atmosphere my factory dv?" I drew out some diagrams ran some tests....drew out some more diagrams. The part that got me was heavy spring bov's work fine.So it couldn't be the loss of air during a blow-off.It had to be something more than that.I hooked up the valve bc I knew the factory dv was open at idle. And I know that the charge pipe goes into vac sometimes.Then it hit me.

Open atmosphere DV + Neg pressure charge pipe = Sucking in unmeasured air past the MAF.

But good call on correcting me about the idle....if it was sucking air at idle constantly......well it wouldn't even idle.I would go be more specific and edit the first post but then this conversation would be really confusing to people reading it.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

watching this thread


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

ryan andrews said:


> I'm gonna wait until your done testing the different parts before I buy. I like noise as long as it's not hurting my ride. Any other easy ideas orvmods you have you want to share


I have tons of useless imformation in my head. hmmm Did you know you can raise the pressure of your factory fuel pressure regulator for free...that's an interesting old 2.2 turbo dodge trick. An easy way to clean the fogging off your headlights is to buff them with toothpaste. you can use automatic trans fluid as tire black......if you unplug your back brake sensors it will disable the ABS and traction control until you plug them back in(good for trackday or bracket racing)..........


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

[No message]


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## [email protected] (Dec 20, 2008)

*Ho wow we can integrate youtubes on here now??*
Sorry for the crappy iPhone vid.


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## morbs_gt (Mar 21, 2008)

I'm liking all the information being tossed around in here, will keep watching. Thanks OP.


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## aar0n. (May 7, 2004)

Sounds like a dying bird.


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## j20thgti (Jan 29, 2007)

interesting


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

morbs_gt said:


> I'm liking all the information being tossed around in here, will keep watching. Thanks OP.


me too....reminds me of the old vwvortex.....this place used to be crawling with ideas and people pushing the limits......


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

JohnsonMOD said:


> Atleast you are thinking...Where to start.... Yes it will blow air at idle but hit the gas and it's going to vac pretty hard until the turbo catches up ....but yes at a steady idle you are correct....the big part you are missing is that I'm doing it with a swing valve(not held shut at all by any thing).. and you should just hook a vac guage up to your "charge" line and go for a drive...the problem occurs when you let off the gas and the idle trys to drop back down at that point there is also a vac in your charge line.Your explanation has two big flaws, 1:turbo lag isn't possible in your world 2:I'm doing it with a swing valve. Turbo's don't constantly make a ton of boost....yes I will agree it does stay positivly charged at idle but touch the gas and it will vacuum until the turbo spools. But you are partially correct I was wrong in saying that the DV sucks air at idle....it sucks air coming off of idle,returning to idle and sometimes during driving.


A vacuum only exists in your intake manifold when the engine is pulling against a restriction (closed throttle plate) - forced induction or naturally aspirated. When you floor it and your throttle plate opens up all the way, the only vacuum that can exist between the throttle body and the atmosphere is what ever can be produced by the piping losses associated with the intake tract as the air flows through it (and through the compressor for the brief moment it is not spooled in FI apps...where this transient value is small and doesn't last for long). 

MAF based cars running a VTA BOV have problems at idle and when trying to hold a constant speed at part throttle and low rpm's - both instances when there is a peak vacuum in the intake manifold and a "small" pressure in the charge piping because the throttle plate is entirely closed or just about...both instances when the car is losing metered air to the atmosphere, not ingesting it.

I'm saying that a swing valve absolutely will not work because it's not the anti-reversing characteristic of the original check valve that made your original setup work, it was the cracking pressure of the valve itself not allowing the air in the charge pipe out.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

aar0n. said:


> Sounds like a dying bird.


It's definetly not the monster MK4 you built Aaron. I mean you did crazy stuff like:

Revo Technik Stage 1 Software (September 2007)
Custom 2.5" Unresonated Catback Exhaust w/Magnaflow Muffler
ECS Stage 1 Clutch and 14.5lb Steel Flywheel
Eurosport Cool Flo Short Ram Intake
Forge 007 Diverter Valve
Lime Green Valve Cover

I don't let anyone insult my car but you have experience putting on a custom catback and painting your valve cover lime green.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

Ah, I have a better way to explain it:

As soon as you hit the gas and open the throttle plate up, the pressure is equalized on both sides of your valve. Therefore, when the throttle is open, the spring in your valve will keep it closed. The problem with a DV venting to atmosphere is not when the throttle plate is open, or the brief moment the throttle plate is opening, as in both these cases the valve will be closed...it's when the plate is closed or just about closed (at idle or at part throttle cruising) and the valve is open allowing metered air out.

The key is in understanding that you are not trying to keep air from coming in, you are trying to keep it from escaping at idle. Knowing this, the cheapest solution is to do just what you did: use a valve with a small cracking pressure in line with a DV. The DV will handle things when the throttle plate is open, the cracking valve will handle things when the throttle plate is closed.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> *Ho wow we can integrate youtubes on here now??*
> Sorry for the crappy iPhone vid.


I was just thinking about going out tommarrow and making a video of my jetta really taking off.....and then I see this........ Somebody should start a thread of MK4 take-off video's. Would be cool to watch.


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## beeyond (Oct 6, 2008)

*All you need to do*

Here is all you really need:








Part # 1208 
Stealth FX - Universal (25mm inlet - 25mm outlet) - RRP $449.00 AUD including GST AUSSIE $

fits a Make:VW
Model:JETTA
Series:MKIV/V and man others 
http://www.gofastbits.com/index.php?parentid=products&option=products&sub_option=bovs

hey a catback & down pipe would not hurt anything as well with a test pipe


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

NOLA_VDubber said:


> A vacuum only exists in your intake manifold when the engine is pulling against a restriction (closed throttle plate) - forced induction or naturally aspirated. When you floor it and your throttle plate opens up all the way, the only vacuum that can exist between the throttle body and the atmosphere is what ever can be produced by the piping losses associated with the intake tract as the air flows through it (and through the compressor for the brief moment it is not spooled in FI apps...where this transient value is small and doesn't last for long).
> 
> MAF based cars running a VTA BOV have problems at idle and when trying to hold a constant speed at part throttle and low rpm's - both instances when there is a peak vacuum in the intake manifold and a "small" pressure in the charge piping because the throttle plate is entirely closed or just about...both instances when the car is losing metered air to the atmosphere, not ingesting it.
> 
> I'm saying that a swing valve absolutely will not work because it's not the anti-reversing characteristic of the original check valve that made your original setup work, it was the cracking pressure of the valve itself not allowing the air in the charge pipe out.


In this video it is a 1" swing valve connected to a factory bosch DV completely open atmosphere.....so you might want to read over the post and do some thinking. When you get bored just click play and watch the video again. But we can discuss this more tomarrow man. It's fun to have someone to banter with.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

beeyond said:


> Here is all you really need:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's just a fancy heavy spring DV for 450 bucks.That thing better show up with about 300 bucks inside it or I would send it back.


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## Hawaii5-0 (Apr 10, 2007)

i would love to know what you have spent thousands of dollars on and allows you to think you're fast when you're still running a ko3. come on, please give us insight to your setup. i want my car to be fast too.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

I began responding to this with diagrams and talk about differntials and cracking pressures...but soon realized that it absolutely doesn't matter what I post; you have convinced yourself of something and are not in the mood to modify your logic.

Enjoy your valve; I'm bowing out now and letting someone with a bit more patience step in to explain.


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## joelzy (Aug 20, 2007)

NOLA_VDubber said:


> ...but soon realized that it absolutely doesn't matter what I post; you have convinced yourself of something and are not in the mood to modify your logic.
> 
> Enjoy your valve; I'm bowing out now and letting someone with a bit more patience step in to explain.


lol yeah that... no point in trying


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

Hawaii5-0 said:


> i would love to know what you have spent thousands of dollars on and allows you to think you're fast when you're still running a ko3. come on, please give us insight to your setup. i want my car to be fast too.


Your car will never be fast and it's ricers like you who are slowing killing vwvortex. Ko3s have been fast but most people who have a fast ko3s can't stand all the dumb kids in vwvortex with airbags and 10" wide back wheels.I on the other hand am just going to fire insults back and not show you my list of mods. It's kinda hard for you to offend me when all you can say is home depot.I can do 24 psi on 90% waste gate duty cycle. Can you? Let me guess you are chipped with a cat-back,and talking about performance. here I found this for that tard Kiddie Rose to look at.Make sure you read the comment "i'm not talking about the band of idiots on the vortex" from the car owner lmao.It's priceless.





Link to the page with comments from the owner of this car calling vwvortex a band of idiots


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

NOLA_VDubber said:


> I began responding to this with diagrams and talk about differntials and cracking pressures...but soon realized that it absolutely doesn't matter what I post; you have convinced yourself of something and are not in the mood to modify your logic.
> 
> Enjoy your valve; I'm bowing out now and letting someone with a bit more patience step in to explain.


You should take some of your own advice....Like I said I'm running a completly unrestricting 1" swing valve in the video.....So you might want to go try it out...The base of our arguement is that you are saying it won't work......sorry it works. 

"I'm saying that a swing valve absolutely will not work because it's not the anti-reversing characteristic of the original check valve that made your original setup work, it was the cracking pressure of the valve itself not allowing the air in the charge pipe out."

"you have convinced yourself of something and are not in the mood to modify your logic."

The first set-up was a 1/2" swing valve....it worked. It was kind of quirky due to not closing tightly until a strong vacuum occurs.(It does occur)
The second set-up was a spring loaded 3/4" valve.....it worked better bc it shut faster and sealed tighter,but was quieter than set-up one due to being more restrictive.
The set-up in this video is a 1" swing valve. A 1" swing valve actually has about a 3/4 opening thru it when opened so it's basically not there when open.





I have a boost guage and an avc-r so I can watch and even record and play this neg vacuum effect back.*I can actually watch both my intake and charge pipe pressures while driving right now*.I was enjoying your comments but I think you got frustrated when I wouldn't agree the world is flat.I'm still not trying to be rude but try and take some of your own advice.....I would show you video of this but lcd screen really doesn't show up well on a cam.


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## aar0n. (May 7, 2004)

My post got deleted for "insulting the user." Bottom line is the car does sound like a dying bird to me, it's an observation, and I don't appreciate having my car or myself insulted because I don't want my make my car fast (since apparently the only way to build a car is to go fast...). Done with this, good luck with your car.

But fyi, I know plenty of people with fast cars with big turbo setups and whatnot and a MK4 that put down 250whp on a stock KO3s. I had no problem with your thread or what you were doing but when you decided to take my observation as an insult and fire back at me, it made it pretty clear to me that you're being defensive as if you have something to prove to everybody when frankly, no one really cares


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

So all this just to make a loud 'BOV type" sound? Why not install a bigger DV like the Eurojet grenade?


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## tmvw (Jan 14, 2008)

JohnsonMOD, why do you care so much about "performance" on an entry level German economy car?


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## dubchuck117 (Feb 6, 2009)

how is the dv partially open at part throttle? watching this vid i dont understand anymore


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

Your boost guage is measuring pressure after the TB and only correlates to the charge pipe pressure when the throttle plate is 100% wide open. So, it doesn't matter what your boost guage is reading unless you also have a secondary sensor in the charge piping.

Your swing valve setups were 'kind of quirky' because they weren't doing anything to solve the problem of allowing air to escape the charge pipe when the throttle plate is closed.

dude, I'm a mechanical engineer. I know what I'm talking about.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

NOLA_VDubber said:


> Your boost guage is measuring pressure after the TB and only correlates to the charge pipe pressure when the throttle plate is 100% wide open. So, it doesn't matter what your boost guage is reading unless you also have a secondary sensor in the charge piping.
> 
> Your swing valve setups were 'kind of quirky' because they weren't doing anything to solve the problem of allowing air to escape the charge pipe when the throttle plate is closed.
> 
> dude, I'm a mechanical engineer. I know what I'm talking about.


My boost guage is hooked to my intake manafold. My Avc-r is hooked to my charge pipe. I can literally go drove my car right now and see my charge pipe going vacuum.....The swing valve works fine.....it was quirky bc I had it mounted in a bad way. I literally know mechanical engineers that can't change a tire. Not an insult....it's true.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

dubchuck117 said:


> how is the dv partially open at part throttle? watching this vid i dont understand anymore


First this guy probably has no MAF at all...just guessing. So if he loses or gains any air it just doesn't matter. It's really hard to comment on a video without knowing whats going on. I have some DV's cut-up here...I'll make a video similar to this here soon. But it's a cool video either way to watch. Try starting your car in and reving it up in neutral. See how your throttle body is wide open and you are still seeing times of vacuum? Trust me with a guage hooked to your charge line you see vac.....I'll set-up a video of this here soon. Got some other stuff going on right now but I'll work on it. To whoever does this mod to there dv and enjoys the piece of imformation,your welcome. It's here it works and I'm just about done arguing the crud out of it. If you have any questions I'll answer them.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

JohnsonMOD said:


> My boost guage is hooked to my intake manafold. My Avc-r is hooked to my charge pipe. I can literally go drove my car right now and see my charge pipe going vacuum.....The swing valve works fine.....it was quirky bc I had it mounted in a bad way. I literally know mechanical engineers that can't change a tire. Not an insult....it's true.


I'm not saying your charge pipe will never see a vacuum. It most definitely will. In the cases when your charge pipe does see vacuum (like when your engine is under a high load and you are at a low RPM) your throttle plate will be open and both the manifold and charge piping pressures will be equal. When they are equal, the DV valve will be closed beacuse of the spring inside, so it doesn't matter how many check valves are installed in this instance.

The key point is that problems occur when venting a DV to atmosphere when the charge pipe pressure and the manifold pressure are not equal - when your throttle plate is closed or almost closed, like at idle or part throttle. It is important to understand that in these situations, your charge pipe is ever so slightly pressurized (I doubt your guage will even read it) and air will be coming out of the open DV.

This explains why your BOV will vent even though your boost guage never shows that your manifold made it out of vacuum. That is, I can blip my throttle while driving around (putting the engine under high load thus opening the throttle plate and equalizing the vacuum accross the top and bottom of the valve), never get the turbo to spool past 5inHg vac, yet when I left off the throttle the valve open and dumps air out of the charge pipe quite loudly. This is beacuse while the throttle is open, the charge pipe can be under vacuum; while the turbo is spooling it acts as a restriction thus creating the vacuum...but as soon as that throttle plate closes, the pressure in the charge pipe will quickly spike up above atmospheric beacsuse the compressor is still 'compressing'.

You are missing this key point.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

aar0n. said:


> My post got deleted for "insulting the user." Bottom line is the car does sound like a dying bird to me, it's an observation, and I don't appreciate having my car or myself insulted because I don't want my make my car fast (since apparently the only way to build a car is to go fast...). Done with this, good luck with your car.
> 
> But fyi, I know plenty of people with fast cars with big turbo setups and whatnot and a MK4 that put down 250whp on a stock KO3s. I had no problem with your thread or what you were doing but when you decided to take my observation as an insult and fire back at me, it made it pretty clear to me that you're being defensive as if you have something to prove to everybody when frankly, no one really cares


Sorry man I'm being attacked from all angles here. But I truly am sorry. You kinda snuck up behind a ninja and tryed to give it a hug there.....my bad.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

This thread is fun


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

JohnsonMOD said:


> Your car will never be fast and it's ricers like you who are slowing killing vwvortex. Ko3s have been fast but most people who have a fast ko3s can't stand all the dumb kids in vwvortex with airbags and 10" wide back wheels.I on the other hand am just going to fire insults back and not show you my list of mods. It's kinda hard for you to offend me when all you can say is home depot.I can do 24 psi on 90% waste gate duty cycle. Can you? Let me guess you are chipped with a cat-back,and talking about performance. here I found this for that tard Kiddie Rose to look at.Make sure you read the comment "i'm not talking about the band of idiots on the vortex" from the car owner lmao.It's priceless.


First off, Im missing the point of this thread. You act like you discovered something new... My car has been running a bov for over 4 years now. Basically one of the first to do so and have been ever since. No issues.

Plus, Im sure your car is slow. My car with a ko3s makes far more power than yours on just pump and 18psi and not even a chip...


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## Kiddie Rimzo (Feb 21, 2008)

i wonder whats its like to be hated by an entire forum. or what would possess someone to keep preaching to hundreds of kids that dont care about anything he has to say.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

NOLA_VDubber said:


> I'm not saying your charge pipe will never see a vacuum. It most definitely will. In the cases when your charge pipe does see vacuum (like when your engine is under a high load and you are at a low RPM) your throttle plate will be open and both the manifold and charge piping pressures will be equal. When they are equal, the DV valve will be closed beacuse of the spring inside, so it doesn't matter how many check valves are installed in this instance.
> 
> The key point is that problems occur when venting a DV to atmosphere when the charge pipe pressure and the manifold pressure are not equal - when your throttle plate is closed or almost closed, like at idle or part throttle. It is important to understand that in these situations, your charge pipe is ever so slightly pressurized (I doubt your guage will even read it) and air will be coming out of the open DV.
> 
> ...


I fully get what you are saying but the first paragraph is slightly wrong. 

_"When they are equal, the DV valve will be closed beacuse of the spring inside, so it doesn't matter how many check valves are installed in this instance." _

When there is the slightest vacuum, a factory DV is open, I will in the near future be able to tell you what amount of vacuum it takes to open a factory dv.....now if you were saying an HKS bov I would agree with you but we already know a HKS BOV works fine open atmosphere.At that point when you say there is vac in both the charge line the DV is open and intakes un measured air. 

1.If there is Vacuum in the intake over the amount it takes to open a factory DV the DV is OPEN.
2.If there is vacuum in both the charge pipe and the intake.....The charge pipe is free to suck air right thru that open DV.
3.This is ok as it sucks it out of the already measured air after the MAF when hooked up factory.
4.When the DV is Open atmosphere your engine is sucking in unmetered air.

_"When they are equal, the DV valve will be closed beacuse of the spring inside, so it doesn't matter how many check valves are installed in this instance." _

The DV can and will only be closed if the vacuum is less than the spring.The only thing that will let that DV close is less vacuum in the intake.The only way to get less vacuum in the intake is to wait for the turbo to start making boost.*The time after you pushing the gas and before your intake/charge pipe gets to less vacuum than your spring can overpower......THE DV IS LETTING AIR IN.*


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

tmvw said:


> JohnsonMOD, why do you care so much about "performance" on an entry level German economy car?


Are you even serious? Wow vwvortex community has fallen.....I remember when VWvortex was all about beating the ricers while looking clean.


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## Kiddie Rimzo (Feb 21, 2008)

only people i know that care about beating ricers are under the age of 21 and immature. weird.


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## Do Werk (Feb 23, 2009)

and what part of this thread has anything to do about beating ricers or looking clean? This is a mod to make your car make a loud blow off.


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## Dutchmastr9 (Sep 13, 2004)




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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

JohnsonMOD said:


> I fully get what you are saying but the first paragraph is slightly wrong.
> 
> _"When they are equal, the DV valve will be closed beacuse of the spring inside, so it doesn't matter how many check valves are installed in this instance." _
> 
> ...


:facepalm:

You are 100% neglecting the fact that when the TB is open, the pressure is equalized on both sides of the piston i.e. when the TB is open and there is vac in the manifold and charge pipe, then these two values are equal and create an equal and opposite force on the DV piston, thus cancelling each other out. The reason the valve shuts when the throttle is open is not because the boost pressure closes it. The pressure above and below cancel out and the spring closes it.

so....there's no way a DV will be open at any point other than when the TB is closed or almost closed. That's it. During these cases, there will be a vac on the top of the piston and a slight pressure (barely above atmospheric) in the charge pipe. The key to designing a proper VTA system is finding a way stop the loss of metered air when the TB is closed without having to resort to a cracking pressure above 10psi (20inHg) needed to keep a single piston DV closed a idle.

The solution is to let your DV open at idle and use another type of valve to block the flow with a small crack pressure (say 1psi). A cracking check valve will do this. A secondary spring-piston valve will also work (combined this valve with the DV and you get a dual-piston BOV).

moral of the story, your original system works, but your theory as to why it works is wrong. Get over it, we all make mistakes. I'm not knocking the mod, I actually think it's kinda cool. However, without knowing what's really going on, you've ended up with a swing valve that will not work.

Go back to a spring type check valve and you'll be all good


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

cincyTT said:


> First off, Im missing the point of this thread. You act like you discovered something new... My car has been running a bov for over 4 years now. Basically one of the first to do so and have been ever since. No issues.
> 
> Plus, Im sure your car is slow. My car with a ko3s makes far more power than yours on just pump and 18psi and not even a chip...


Yes you don't get any of it. And I know 18psi is the max you can push with your car before you start to lean out.....you have a diode to trick the factory ecu boost cutout and I'm guessing a manuel boost controller.There's actually a video in this thread of my boost guage going above 20psi.....and it's ussually at 20psi for daily driving.I have a scramle boost button that jumps it to 24psi.Yes a stock ko3s can easily do 24 psi if tuned properly.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

Just to reiterate, no matter if the cars is in boost or vacuum, as soon as that throttle plate opens the valve closes. Therefore only time your valve can be open is when the throttle is closed.

When the throttle is closed and the valve open, air will be lost to the atmosphere through the charge piping as the idling exhaust gasses spin the compressor which creates a pressure ever so slightly above ambient in the charge pipe.

A secondary valve is needed to keep these low pressure gases from escaping. A dual piston BOV uses a second piston controlled by a very light spring...the same exact thing inside a spring-type check valve run in reverse!

I deserve 25 internet points for this.


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## 04 GLI Luva (May 30, 2007)

I think this tread has coined a new phrase for "ricer" its the *JOHNSONMOD*


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

Hawaii5-0 said:


> i would love to know what you have spent thousands of dollars on and allows you to think you're fast when you're still running a ko3. come on, please give us insight to your setup. i want my car to be fast too.


If you spend about $1,500 on just the bare min to get revo stage 2 and some dyno time you will end up with about 20 psi max holding boost and you would be somewhere in the middle of me and Shiddie Rose on performance.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

The only thing I can see this mod helping is to stop air from entering the bov under decel. I had that problem with my tial valve, I had to add some washers to stiffen the spring so it would not open under decel. But Nola is right, if it opens at idle it is letting air out not in.


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## 04 GLI Luva (May 30, 2007)

JohnsonMOD said:


> If you spend about $1,500 on just the bare min to get revo stage 2 and some dyno time you will end up with about 20 psi max holding boost and you would be somewhere in the middle of me and Shiddie Rose on performance.


$1,500?! LOL wow ur about as smart with ur money as u r with fluid dymanics


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## Zealot (Mar 9, 2003)

Kiddie Rose said:


> only people i know that care about beating ricers are under the age of 21 and immature. weird.


TRUTH


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

NOLA_VDubber said:


> Just to reiterate, no matter if the cars is in boost or vacuum, as soon as that throttle plate opens the valve closes. Therefore only time your valve can be open is when the throttle is closed.
> 
> When the throttle is closed and the valve open, air will be lost to the atmosphere through the charge piping as the idling exhaust gasses spin the compressor which creates a pressure ever so slightly above ambient in the charge pipe.
> 
> ...


Hmmm you do know your DV is not hooked to your throttle? It opens and closes on vacuum.And I'm not using a spring type check valve.I know I said it before but I think you are ignoring the fact that I started with and I am using a swing check valve right now.What you are doing is going out and searching the internet for imformation about how a BOV works.....We are discussing a factory VW diverter valve.

But you are completely barking up the wrong tree now. I am doing nothing to try to stop air from escaping my charge pipe.....as this is not the problem.Go look at a 1" swing valve and then come tell me it's stopping air from blowing out. I would never install anything on a 1.8t that would slow or stop air from escaping when the dv is open.(why I stopped using a spring check valve) Literally if you layed my 1" swing valve down on it's side like it's now installed it's not even sealed air tight until a vac pulls on it.Where we are having problems is I had some theories.I took them and put them all to the test and then shared all the results.You have some theories.But you are not trying to prove any of them.At this point you are saying that when the tb opens and there is vac in both the intake and the charge pipe some magical force shuts the DV instantly.*The fact is when the throttle body opens it takes a small amount of time depending on engine load for the vacuum to get low enough to allow the dv to close. In that time the charge pipe sucks air in thru your dv.* Tell me why it doesn't? I know this is all true. I have seen it myself. I have done everything but hook a meter up to the dv and literally measure it.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

DarkSideGTI said:


> The only thing I can see this mod helping is to stop air from entering the bov under decel. I had that problem with my tial valve, I had to add some washers to stiffen the spring so it would not open under decel. But Nola is right, if it opens at idle it is letting air out not in.


Wow someone finally said it. And yes he is 100% right the DV does let air out at idle.This causes no problem to a 1.8t. They will idle sitting still all day with an open factory DV. It's as I said a long time ago under decel and partial throttle with a load that the problem occurs.About 20 posts ago I said yes you are right about the boost escaping during idle.......but the problem is air sucking in at other times.....

Nola is saying that air will never enter an open atmosphere DV.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

I'm done.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

Kiddie Rose said:


> only people i know that care about beating ricers are under the age of 21 and immature. weird.


You keep posting in a thread started by me.....So w/e I am you are riding it pretty hard. But by all means keep bumping my thread.  Show em how bad you love me. You hoping maybe next time I'm in Pa I'll take you out to dinner? I'm not hated by VWvortex I'm just loved by Haters.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

JohnsonMOD said:


> Yes you don't get any of it. And I know 18psi is the max you can push with your car before you start to lean out.....you have a diode to trick the factory ecu boost cutout and I'm guessing a manuel boost controller.There's actually a video in this thread of my boost guage going above 20psi.....and it's ussually at 20psi for daily driving.I have a scramle boost button that jumps it to 24psi.Yes a stock ko3s can easily do 24 psi if tuned properly.


LOL, you have NO IDEA. I dont run any more than 18psi cause there is no point, the turbo cant flow it. My car already makes well over 300wtq on 18psi and 93oct (no meth or e85 either). I make more power without a chip than over 99% of those that do and that fraction of a percent, they run meth or race gas to beat me along with and extra 10psi. 

The only thing you need to do is have the valve closed at idle. Whats so hard about that? We call them twin piston bov's. Been around a LONG time. All you did was ghetto up your car with HD Racing parts and dangle the stock valve in the engine bay. Big whup. You didnt do anything that I and others have done for YEARS. Welcome to 2006 my friend, your kind of late to the party.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

cincyTT said:


> LOL, you have NO IDEA. I dont run any more than 18psi cause there is no point, the turbo cant flow it. My car already makes well over 300wtq on 18psi and 93oct (no meth or e85 either). I make more power without a chip than over 99% of those that do and that fraction of a percent, they run meth or race gas to beat me along with and extra 10psi.
> 
> The only thing you need to do is have the valve closed at idle. Whats so hard about that? We call them twin piston bov's. Been around a LONG time. All you did was ghetto up your car with HD Racing parts and dangle the stock valve in the engine bay. Big whup. You didnt do anything that I and others have done for YEARS. Welcome to 2006 my friend, your kind of late to the party.


You tryed to make your own ecu flash....and i'm ghetto?


So it takes 28 psi and nitro methane to beat your dioded 1.8t? FYI Just a revo stage 2 set-up will hold 20 psi and puts down about 240whp 295wtq on a dyno. That's about 280bhp at a 15% drivetrain lose. You are leaning out your 1.8t to the limit at 18psi.You are claiming bigger torque numbers with 2 less psi.

I'm done with dumb posts.


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## VDuBPL (May 10, 2006)

vroom.....wapachaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafiuodshgfsrhjgpoisdhfgopiahsfgpiuhsdfpiuiguhaspfdghgopsif


I hate this new vortex!!!




How is this thread still around!!!???!!!


WTF!!!!!


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

Hey guys sorry I am late to the party.....so whats going on over here? ....oh nevermind...I see it's another guy who thinks he can out design VW and Bosch and make a car run better with crap from Home Depot.

I shall now move along due to the fact there is no useful info here


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

JohnsonMOD said:


> You tryed to make your own ecu flash....and i'm ghetto?
> 
> 
> So it takes 28 psi and nitro methane to beat your dioded 1.8t? FYI Just a revo stage 2 set-up will hold 20 psi and puts down about 240whp 295wtq on a dyno. That's about 280bhp at a 15% drivetrain lose. You are leaning out your 1.8t to the limit at 18psi.You are claiming bigger torque numbers with 2 less psi.
> ...


No, i didnt ecu flash myself. Also, psi doesnt mean anything, flow does. A revo flash WILL NOT put down anywhere near those numbers. At 20psi it will barely clear 200whp and 230wtq. BTW, my afr is high 11's, so again you are wrong. 

The only people i have seen make more power than me are running race gas and/or water/meth injection and around 30psi. I have been around, built stuff, and did way more than what you know. There is a reason why many people are coping my setup all the time.

Good try though...


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

cincyTT said:


> No, i didnt ecu flash myself. Also, psi doesnt mean anything, flow does. A revo flash WILL NOT put down anywhere near those numbers. At 20psi it will barely clear 200whp and 230wtq. BTW, my afr is high 11's, so again you are wrong.
> 
> The only people i have seen make more power than me are running race gas and/or water/meth injection and around 30psi. I have been around, built stuff, and did way more than what you know. There is a reason why many people are coping my setup all the time.
> 
> Good try though...


Revo stage 2 dyno numbers are easy to find.

Done done done with dumb posts.


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## boostd12v (Jan 26, 2009)

I run a DV all day everyday and sound way better than any BOV


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## automan89 (Sep 17, 2007)

if you really want the loud whoosh sound follow these steps.

buy one of these 









every time you shift, make the whoosh sound like this









and it will sound like this


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

lol at Happy Dynos! 240wheel? hahaha where was that when I went to a bigger turbo?

Cincy's a 2.0 fella - that's why he's got the #s he does, but you're still prolly keep babbling so...


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## 20thAEGti1009 (Jan 28, 2005)

This kid is a MORON!! Dude quit bragging and actually make some real power before acting like you know it all.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

JohnsonMOD said:


> Revo stage 2 dyno numbers are easy to find.
> 
> Done done done with dumb posts.


How did i know you were going to show a MKV dyno... f'ing retard. You sir, are a joke in every way


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## dane. (Nov 16, 2007)

I like how serious this is getting.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

wylde said:


> I like how serious this is getting.


It's getting boring.Most of the posts in this thread are just pointless chatter.Pretty much all of it...just a ton of internet barking.Maybe we should stay a little more on subject.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

20thAEGti1009 said:


> This kid is a MORON!! Dude quit bragging and actually make some real power before acting like you know it all.


I have not even listed what's done to my car or claimed any numbers........


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

cincyTT said:


> How did i know you were going to show a MKV dyno... f'ing retard. You sir, are a joke in every way


sorry just did a quick search....I don't really care to even argue with you honestly sorry. Kind of a waste of both our time.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

screwball said:


> lol at Happy Dynos! 240wheel? hahaha where was that when I went to a bigger turbo?
> 
> Cincy's a 2.0 fella - that's why he's got the #s he does, but you're still prolly keep babbling so...


If you go start a thread I'll promise not to post in it.....


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

b2 said:


> I run a DV all day everyday and sound way better than any BOV


I figured I should quote this....I'm doubting anyone else will....


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## automan89 (Sep 17, 2007)

dude learn how to multi quote. unless your trying to get your post count up to make it seem like you know what your talking about.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

JohnsonMOD said:


> sorry just did a quick search....I don't really care to even argue with you honestly sorry. Kind of a waste of both our time.


Cause you know everything i said and done is true and all that you have said and done is just plain wrong. Backing up claims with a COMPLETELY different motor and turbo... LMFAO!!


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## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

wowowoowowowow. to the OP. YOU ARE A MORON.

oh and im a street racing ricer. heres my old 2002 GTI 1.8t, GT3071R, which ran 11.90 @ 120.1mph on 24psi of boost.. racing a big block 70s Chevelle SS from a dig.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

cincyTT said:


> Cause you know everything i said and done is true and all that you have said and done is just plain wrong. Backing up claims with a COMPLETELY different motor and turbo... LMFAO!!


You are trying to hard to argue with someone who does not care.....I thought you had a 1.8t....but still don't care...I just pulled up a dyno sheet quick by mistake....I still don't care....You win man Not really sure what I said and did that was plain wrong other than that. But I can truly promise you I just don't care.I have a fury with a 69 440 magnum in it.........should we compare 2 completely diff motors some more and see who wins? You are truly wasting your time trying to argue with someone who just doesn't care. I'll point out for the last time I never made any claims.....I never even listed what I have done to my car...........I'm not really interested with someone trying to be cool on a forum anymore......you missed all that bs 2-3 pages ago.If I did make a claim I could say w/e I want as there is no way to prove anything either of us are saying. So it's totally pointless. Go play internet coolguy somewhere else. I'm already bickering with half a dozen people I don't care about.


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## Mr.Fugge (Apr 15, 2010)

Almost good as this mod..


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

JohnsonMOD said:


> You are trying to hard to argue with someone who does not care.....I thought you had a 1.8t....but still don't care...I just pulled up a dyno sheet quick by mistake....I still don't care....You win man Not really sure what I said and did that was plain wrong other than that. But I can truly promise you I just don't care.I have a fury with a 69 440 magnum in it.........should we compare 2 completely diff motors some more and see who wins? You are truly wasting your time trying to argue with someone who just doesn't care. I'll point out for the last time I never made any claims.....I never even listed what I have done to my car...........I'm not really interested with someone trying to be cool on a forum anymore......you missed all that bs 2-3 pages ago.If I did make a claim I could say w/e I want as there is no way to prove anything either of us are saying. So it's totally pointless. Go play internet coolguy somewhere else. I'm already bickering with half a dozen people I don't care about.


I do have a 1.8t


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

boosted b5 said:


> wowowoowowowow. to the OP. YOU ARE A MORON.
> 
> oh and im a street racing ricer. heres my old 2002 GTI 1.8t, GT3071R, which ran 11.90 @ 120.1mph on 24psi of boost.. racing a big block 70s Chevelle SS from a dig.


No idea what that has to do with factory DV's.......or why you are showing video's of cars you used to own....I feal like you want some sort of response......sooooo......


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## CEAZE_ONE (Apr 4, 2007)

Hey mann this is really kewl! Can i do it to my 2.0 too? Let me know, thanks in advance.


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## JohnsonMOD (May 14, 2010)

screwball said:


> lol at Happy Dynos! 240wheel? hahaha where was that when I went to a bigger turbo?
> 
> *Cincy's a 2.0 fella *- that's why he's got the #s he does, but you're still prolly keep babbling so...


.....


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## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

your DV mod is stupid, as is this thread. trying to liven it up a bit.

go back to trollin' through lowes motorsports for some more go fast goods!



JohnsonMOD said:


> .....


2.0 20v BRO.


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## askibum02 (May 10, 2002)

This is done....


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