# 01 Audi TT225 compound turbo setup



## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

If you are reading this for the first time, this build was never completed, but instead became a single turbo stroker build. So if your interested in the incomplete compound build continue reading, if you are interested in the single turbo setup skip a head to page 7.


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

No pictures yet...... Take some :sly:......



And I'd really love to see how you fit two turbo's in the TT's engine bay :screwy:..




EDIT: Thats if this is a 225..


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## Audiguy84 (Nov 14, 2006)

well i wish you luck. i know it works as manufactures are doing it, i.e. BMW with their new TRI - turbo 6 cylinder that has the same layout only two turbos feeding one larger one. but alas I also WANT pics.


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## AlaskaTT (Oct 19, 2011)

Dowski12 said:


> No picutes yet as there really isnt much to see except for a lot of pretty black powder coated parts (tubos look sick).


Hang on a second! We love pictures of pretty powder coated goodies, especially sick looking turbos.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Well since you put it that way, ill have pictures this weekend. Kinda hard making it to the shop without a vehicle:banghead: 

Fitting the two turbos is definitely a challenge, origionally we were going to put the larger turbo below the exhaust mani and have the intake running to the passenger side wheel well. I didn't really like the idea of having a big gapping space on the driverside so now we are moving my battery to the trunk and putting the 60-1 on the driver side. Im not sure how he is going to run the piping yet but he seems confident. This isn't the first compound setup he's done either so I put alot of faith in his ability. 

I've put alot of time in researching these kinds of setups but you can always learn more so if anyone has any advice let me know.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

opcorn:


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Lets see what happens opcorn:


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## deltaP (Jul 26, 2011)

opcorn:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Should have waited for pictures and a fully running setup before posting. Pictures and dyno graphs are a must if you want any real attention and respect (gotta feed the sharks with something). Kudos to you though for doing something bold and different. May I ask what you are doing for tuning?


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Yeah i wish i could wait till i had pics and dynos but i have been without the car for about 3 weeks and i got antsy 

As far as tuning goes im using maestro on the dyno at fast times motorsports. I imagine its going to be a hell of a long tune. The last compound setup they did ended up taking 3 fill ups to finish and he was only making 400hp on a WRX so i cant wait to see how long mine will take. Though hopefully mine will go alot smoother since now he has some practice at this kind of setup.

I found out today i should be getting the block and head back on tuesday. Im going to pay the guy tomorrow so hopefully that will give him some insentive to get it done faster. 

opcorn:ME TOO!!!


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## Audiguy84 (Nov 14, 2006)

Here's a pic of what bmw is doing

edit: Ahh damn work cpu.. Just google bmw tri turbo engine.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

20psi now said:


> And I'd really love to see how you fit two turbo's in the TT's engine bay :screwy:..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not really sure how a 225 is any different than a 180 considering he is doing a real build. Using an SEM as he mentions makes this a drivers side TB. 

Exhaust plumbing and hardware placement are all that really set this apart from anything non-traditional BT.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

That tri turbo setup is pretty sick. I love how compact it is. Just doing my two turbo compound setup is going to take up more room than that...crazy!!!

I wonder if you will be able to by the tri turbo setup by itself. Might be fun to try and modify it for a 1.8t.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Ok so I have a couple of pictures, nothing spectacular because my mechanic fired one of his employees and that guy decided to take it out on a couple of my freshly powder coated parts The rest of my parts should be back from powder coating this week sometime and the block and head will be back tomorrow. Saturday, the engine should be back in the car and then we can begin building the turbo setup...fingers crossed!


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

I don't see any pics


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## Mantvis (Jan 1, 2010)

01ttgt28 said:


> I don't see any pics


same


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

IHI VF39

















Homemade Oil Catch Can









Hows that?


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

ejg3855 said:


> Not really sure how a 225 is any different than a 180 considering he is doing a real build. Using an SEM as he mentions makes this a drivers side TB.
> 
> Exhaust plumbing and hardware placement are all that really set this apart from anything non-traditional BT.


No, :laugh: Im just saying that there is not much room behind the engine it self let alone the engine bay. I would like to see how they/you would place two turbo in the TT with would having exhaust piping be a huge mess. Anything can be done if you have the cash flow but A single is going to be better then twins anyday, but thats all about what he really wants from the car.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Everybody says singles are the way to go, but if I wanted to build a larger turbo setup that could spool as fast as possible and make 500whp, first off the turbo I would have to buy would be silly expensive. Dual ball bearing, billet wheels, all cost $$$. I got both turbos brand new and custom built for $900. Second, even after spending all that cash for a bada$$ turbo i still wouldn't spool nearly as fast as i will with this setup. With the turbo selection ive made, I should be somewhere between 1800 and 2000rpm for spool. I dont know anyone else with a 1.8t that can make that claim even on a stock turbo.

This is a compound setup, not a twin turbo.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

20psi now said:


> No, :laugh: Im just saying that there is not much room behind the engine it self let alone the engine bay. I would like to see how they/you would place two turbo in the TT with would having exhaust piping be a huge mess. Anything can be done if you have the cash flow but A single is going to be better then twins anyday, but thats all about what he really wants from the car.


dude I can't really explain how awesome Compound is from my phone but uber high psi is easy cause of how the pressures compound. things like 45psi are easily obtainable and the low end response is nuts.

compound much much different from independent twins.

Google some of the math behind compounds its crazy

Sent from a phone.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

I've had this conversation with big turbo guys a thousand times. Most dont know the difference between a compound and a twin turbo setup, so they dont understand the benefits you get by compounding the turbos. Diesel Trucks use this kind of setup to produce up to 200psi for trailer pulls. Im not gonna be producing anywhere near that much, but becuase the work is destributed between two turbos to produce the same amount of boost that i would be producing using just one, neither turbo is having to work that hard. 

And because the smaller turbo produces low end power and spooles the larger turbo, you get a very linear boost curve from start to finish. That means the car pulls hard from beginning to end w/out dieing off in the higher rpms.


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## poopie (Feb 22, 2005)

http://forums.subdriven.com/showthread.php?5456430-1.8t-twin-turbo-project

i thought it was done?


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

Great info in this link, never really new what all goes in to this!! Lots of math and too much to know :laugh:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/custom-fabrication/336541-my-compound-turbo-set-up.html:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

poopie said:


> http://forums.subdriven.com/showthread.php?5456430-1.8t-twin-turbo-project
> 
> i thought it was done?


Busted? Lol


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## Audiguy84 (Nov 14, 2006)

you know I remember hearing about a supercharger out there for the 1.8T. I think it replaced the a/c compressor.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

LOL nope not done, was just trying to support a friend:facepalm:

20psi that link didnt work for me, but is it the orange eclipse? If so that was the post that gave me the idea for a compound set up.

If you go to youtube and type in streetfighter compound turbo you can see what kind of results this setup can produce. That eclipse has a couple of vids on there too.


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> LOL nope not done, was just trying to support a friend:facepalm:
> 
> 20psi that link didnt work for me, but is it the orange eclipse? If so that was the post that gave me the idea for a compound set up.
> 
> If you go to youtube and type in streetfighter compound turbo you can see what kind of results this setup can produce. That eclipse has a couple of vids on there too.


Hahaha yes orange eclipse. And streetfighter has some bad a** videos out there on youtube.


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## seth_3515 (Dec 26, 2008)

Im not saying this cant be done, but I think the placement of the turbos and extra exhaust piping that will be needed will cause extreme heat issues in the engine bay.. Are you going with a top mount or bottom mount? Top mount will be easier to run as far as connecting the turbos and you might beable to squeeze the large one in a similar fashion to the sidewinder tubular exhaust mani.. but my main concern is heat. The TT is already notorious for having ****ty heat dissipation properties. Do you have plans for that? otherwise the biggest obstacle will be tuning, if you are having a shop do it I would be leery unless they have tuned a compound turbo setup before. Its definitely possible, its been discussed before but I (personally) think it will be way too impractical.. Hope to see you succeed though! :beer:

-also, whats the plan for the intakes? the small TIP wont be a problem, but stuffing a turbo capable of 500whp will run a 4" inlet.. taper down to 3" and hope to fit?


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## rodhotter (Dec 24, 2003)

*challanging*

i guess you like to prove people wrong and love a challenge , i seen some twin scroll setups for the 1.8, never thought of a twin turbo setup, good luck


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Everything is being heat wrapped or ceramic coated, im hoping that will trap most of the heat. If not maybe ill just gold line EVERYTHING!!!(not really) If all else fails I might just end up cutting vents in the hood and filling them with mesh which might look cool, but i think heat wise i will be fine. I am going with a top mount for the smaller turbo. I should be able to run the exhaust pipe from the smaller turbo to the larger one easily, I'm just worried about how to run the exhaust back from the 60-1. There might be enough room to run 2-2.5inch pipe from the turbo and down and around the engine to meet up with my 3" dp. It may require moving some stuff around but i think its doable. The 60-1 has a 4" intake, I'm running mafless so im just using a 4" filter off of the turbo. 

As far as tuning is concerned, im using maestro on the dyno at Fasttimes Motorsports. They have tuned compounds before, last one they did was a Suby WRX that made 400hp so i should be ok.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Proving people wrong is great and all, but i really just want something different from everyone else. I have had BT cars before and it has turned me into the worlds premier loather of lag. Having a car that produces boost instantly is what i want and this setup will get me closest to that goal. Oh and *I always love a challenge*!!!

For all those that dont know how compound setup works, here is a diagram I made. Maybe not the best but drawing it out on paper is what helped me understand it in the beginning. This is how my orginial setup was going to look from the back of the motor.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

looking for a better pucture


http://www.atsdiesel.com/ats2/templates/template_06.asp?p=2029422272&c=36


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## ModsTTand (Jul 8, 2009)

all the bestopcorn:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Well the block didn't come back on Wednesday like we thought it would. Apparently, after installing the rods, the clearances weren't what they wanted so now he has to do some machineing. Thats good I guess, at least they are being thorough. Now they say it will be back on Saturday. Im going to the shop to help install the motor so ill get some good pics of everything then. Stay Tuned.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

I think this might be easier on an A4 where there is more room. But thinking about top and bottom mount setups I bet you could pull this off pretty stealth with some crafty fab.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Wouldn't your overall power be restricted to the flow of the small turbo's exhaust housing?


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Thats the great thing about this setup even if you are restricted by the small turbos exhaust housing it doesn't really matter. I think Im only going to be running the small turbo somewhere around 17psi which is well under what it can handle. You got to think, the larg turbo is for low pressure, your supplying your smaller turbo (high pressure) with already compressed air where it will then be compressed again and blown into the motor. This is why you can run much higher boost levels. I think we only have to run the large turbo at around 11psi to supply the small turbo with enough pressure to compress it to the pressure we need to make 500hp. I say "I think" because i am not the expert on this stuff. I understand the concept and all but as far as the math goes, thats all my mechanics job. There are a couple of faq sites about compound turbos. They have really good info that is pretty easy to understand until it gets into the math portion of it all. Take a look, they will be able to explain alot better than i can.


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

So what's up with some progressopcorn:


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## ModsTTand (Jul 8, 2009)

01ttgt28 said:


> So what's up with some progressopcorn:


 x2


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Update...FRUSTRATION!!! 

The motor hasen't come back from the machine shop yet and i found out yesterday it was because my mechanic never paid the deposit for the work on my motor in the first place(even though i gave him $2000 for engine and powder coat already). So therefore my motor has been sitting there not being worked on for about a month and a half. I called the machine shop yesterday to see what the hold up on it was and low and behold found out i was being screwed. So I called my mechanic and used a few choice words and that seemed to get results. 

He went by there today and paid the deposit so hopefully it will be done by the end of this week. I will be sure to keep you guys posted as soon as there is some progress.


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## ttwsm (Feb 27, 2011)

Wow that's a bummer. I hope things go better from here on out! Too often it seems like things that start badly also end badly...


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Well hopefully things start moving forward a little better. After speaking with my mechanic he seems to be back on track. Over the last month I've only talked to him a couple of times about my car, but since our little discussion yesterday, hes been blowing up my phone. So I dont see any problems with things not getting accomplished on his end once the motor comes back. Their moving into a new shop in the next couple of weeks, so he would like to get it done before then.


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Nice it always helps if you flash a couple more thousand in his face


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

I should do that...loan me a couple, Im good for it 

I did get a new intercooler. Its a treadstone TR1035


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## wrestler4life521 (Aug 12, 2010)

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Vdub 2.0 (Jan 8, 2008)

:thumbup: any more updates?!?!


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sorry nothing really to report yet. The machinist finally started on my motor last Thursday so if he dosent run into any complications then it should be back to the shop near the end of this week. Then the real fun should begin...I'll keep you guys posted.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Good news fellas!!! Block will be back on Monday 
Im taking the day off to go help with the install so I will try and take some pics of everything as it happens.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

opcorn:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Didn't get a chance to take pictures of the motor yet. Should be back in the car tomorrow but i did snap one of my newly powder coated SEM intake manifold, LOOKS AMAZING!!!


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Got some last minute parts in today. 

Aeromotive Adjustable FPR 








Aeromotive Fuel Pressure Guage 








42DD MAP Sensor Flange


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

After two and half months, here it is. Taken right after delievery so its sitting on a tire on the floor.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

been waiting for this build to get going.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Your tellin me. I was over there today helping install the motor. Got the mounts in and was lowering it into the car when I had to leave. Should be in by now though so now we can start with the fun stuff.


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Now where talking lets see what happensopcorn:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Clutch, Friction Plate and Tranny installed. Motor is in but it was too dark to take pictures.


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

Me gusta the power. Post any engine pic please opcorn: 


EDIT: Sorry, engine pic WITH turbos opcorn:


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Talk about perspective, the quattro 02m is huge, almost the size of the engine :what: 

...now get to bolting stuff on, good luck :thumbup:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Haha...JC, my mechanic said the same thing. The O2M is huge in relation to the motor, and its a heavy beast. The motor looks so different in the car without all the emissions bs. Talk about loads more room and all for nothing. All that extra space is now going to turbos and piping...well worth it, I HOPE!


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

By the way, anyone looking for 225Q parts, I got plenty for sale. If anyone wants them, Im letting them go for cheap, including my old FMIC and upgraded K04. Let me know and I will send you some picks of anything you want.


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> By the way, anyone looking for 225Q parts, I got plenty for sale. If anyone wants them, Im letting them go for cheap, including my old FMIC and upgraded K04. Let me know and I will send you some picks of anything you want.


 What kind of ko4?? :sly:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Its a K04-22 but its been ported out It was only on my car for about 4 months and Im not gonna say I didn't give it some gas here and there but there is no shaft play. I wasn't sure if there was really any difference between mine and a regular K04 but I had my turbo guy check it out and he said its deffinitley been modified.


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## musTTache (Apr 13, 2012)

Im glued.opcorn:

Send me a PM with prices on your FMIC and turbo.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

PM sent.

Got some more of the poweder coat back. The vlave cover didn't turn out as nice as the SEM. I haven't seen it first hand but if its not up to my standards ill just take it in to get redone when I take my wheels. Im tired of waiting so I can live with it for now. 

Also got my black PTP turbo blankets and black heat wrap in the mail today. Ill have pics of everything thus far this weekend.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Bolted on the valve cover and SEM manifold. Turbos will be back from powder coat tonight and starting the layout on monday. Stay tuned

























Dont mind the stock fuel rail, just plugging the injector ports till we get the custom rail finished.


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> Ask and you shall recieve. Bolted on the valve cover and SEM manifold. Turbos will be back from powder coat tonight and starting the layout on monday. Stay tuned
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks nice. Me gusta opcorn: 

Can't see the turbos with the engine in the bay, even if they WERE on... :screwy:
Need a photo with it out and the turbos on plz


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Turbos arent in yet. Im going over there tomorrow morning to decide on the layout of where we are going to mount them. JC wants to either put both behind the motor or both on the driver side of the motor. I want one top mounted behind the motor and one on the drivers side. I have final say so we will throw the turbos in tormorrow in different configurations to figure out which works best.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Went to the shop today, Intercooler is mounted. We had to trash the crash bar and we might have to trim the bumper, not sure yet.


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## lite1979 (Sep 9, 2005)

Dowski12 said:


> We had to trash the crash bar and we might have to trim the bumper, not sure yet.


So is your rad support the only thing connecting the left and right up front now, or do you still have the old IC pipe on the bottom providing support?


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

That transition pipe between the old SMIC's is long gone. We left the mounts for the crash bar connected. Thats what we used for the FMIC supports. We ground the ends off and then welded some thick metal L brackets to it and drilled two holes to connect to the IC, worked out pretty good. So basically yeah, the radiator support is the only thing upfront now. I figure if I wreck in my car I'll probably be doing something extremely stupid, at an excellerated rate of speed and that wimpy crash bar isn't gonna save anything anyway


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## Audiguy84 (Nov 14, 2006)

except preventing your front end from spitting like a banana, also don't you think it would be easier to fab up the turbo kit with the engine out of the car?


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Normally yes but becuase of where the turbos will be sitting and where the pipes are running there is going to be a very limited amount of space to fit everything. Doing it with the motor in will let us know where we can run the hot exaust pipes without melting anything. It also is giving us a good Idea of where we are going to have to re-route alot of the hoses and what not. Without even having the turbos in yet we can already tell we're gonna have to move the heater core hoses so even though the fab work will be alittle harder with the motor in, it gives us a good picture of where everything is being layed out. 

I'm certainly not the first person to remove the crash bar, I think it will be ok, if not I guess I will have two sides to a really fast car


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Intercooler is mounted, we're just waiting on the stainless piping to get here.

The dirtiest my car has ever been


















Used the crash bar mounts and some metal stock we had laying around, worked out pretty good. Definitley needs to be cleaned up though.









Also, ordered Maestro today, hopefully gets here before the fab is complete. Will keep you posted


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Removing the crash bar is a bad idea. If you get in an accident and the insurance adjuster sees that, you can almost guarantee your claim being dropped. Treadstone tr8 fits right behind the crash bar:thumbup:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

warranty225cpe said:


> Removing the crash bar is a bad idea. If you get in an accident and the insurance adjuster sees that, you can almost guarantee your claim being dropped. Treadstone tr8 fits right behind the crash bar:thumbup:


Not only that, you are loosing tons of front end rigidity. With the cross IC pipe removed and no crash bar, there is not much left to brace the two front frame rails. Personally, I'd look for a solution to bring back some structural rigidity to the flexy flex front end.

BTW OP, the radiator is not going to love the airflow available to it now, especially with the possible heat hike generated by the compound setup.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Not only that, you are loosing tons of front end rigidity. With the cross IC pipe removed and no crash bar, there is not much left to brace the two front frame rails. Personally, I'd look for a solution to bring back some structural rigidity to the flexy flex front end.


Not to doubt your experience and knowledge, but I think you exaggerate here a bit. There is the front strut bar as well as that large lump known as the engine/trans. Now if your side motor mounts are old and soft, then you're losing some there, but if you have VF mounts or other stiffer solutions on the market, then the engine itself is quite a brace. That said, the forces in the frame rail come from the suspension mounting points, meaning the strut towers and subframe mounting points are where forces enter the chassis. While deflection may be at the highest distances way out on the front of the frame rails, the forces causing that is far away from it. Have you added any bracing to your subframe at all or gone to solid subframe bushing/mounts (not sure if that's allowed in your class)?


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Havent changed bushings or anything yet. Ill have to check cause im not sure if its allowed in my class either. I did talk to JC about mounting a brace between the crash bar mounts behind the intercooler. He seems to think it should be fine without the crash bar since he runs 1400hp cars without them and they dont seem to be splitting in half, but he said he would do whatever I want him to, I'm not really that worried about it though. On the street I dont really ever drive that crazy and on the track, wrecking the car with or without a crash bar wont make much difference as far as saving the car when your going 100+mph. I dont understand why everyone seems to think the crash bar is meant to hold the car together. If that was the case I imagine it would be a hell of lot thicker/stronger material. 

The TR8 is too small for my HP goals. Later on im looking to swap turbos and see how far I can really push this setup.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

20v master said:


> Not to doubt your experience and knowledge, but I think you exaggerate here a bit. There is the front strut bar as well as that large lump known as the engine/trans. Now if your side motor mounts are old and soft, then you're losing some there, but if you have VF mounts or other stiffer solutions on the market, then the engine itself is quite a brace. That said, the forces in the frame rail come from the suspension mounting points, meaning the strut towers and subframe mounting points are where forces enter the chassis. While deflection may be at the highest distances way out on the front of the frame rails, the forces causing that is far away from it. Have you added any bracing to your subframe at all or gone to solid subframe bushing/mounts (not sure if that's allowed in your class)?


Adam, I hear what you're saying. I'm concerned about the 5th spring. There is quite a bit of dynamic unibody flex with steering angle and also with elevation variance of the road surface (think entering a driveway at an angle). It is a known fact that unibodies flex a lot, but how much does ours deflect with load? From what I can see, there is quite a bit of flex. Anyone can try the following to understand what I'm concerned about:

- Jack one of the front tires off the ground and check the door alignment/gap

- Put the car on a lift and look or measure the front end sagging from its own weight (no loads).

- Tie the two shock towers with a string (there can be a little slack) and go for a few spirited turns in both directions. The fifth spring/flex will take care of over extending the string with ease, even with the little slack, it will be broken after a few spirited turns.

To answer your question about bracing, I can't triangulate anything in my class but I've tied 2 single points in a few locations to help the chassis. Remember, I already have the second most rigid frame in the line up (3.2 coupe being the most rigid) and Audi already gave me a lot more to work with because of the additional factory frame bracing and OEM solid frame mounts . It may not mean much to the OP, and having extra dynamic toe, camber, and caster movement maybe low in the priority list but it's there (especially when you drop 75% of what tied the rail on the steering end together).


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Marcus, do you have any suggestions for making the front in more rigid? (besides using the crash bar that is)


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> To answer your question about bracing, I can't triangulate anything in my class but I've tied 2 single points in a few locations to help the chassis. Remember, I already have the second most rigid frame in the line up (3.2 coupe being the most rigid) and Audi already gave me a lot more to work with because of the additional factory frame bracing and OEM solid frame mounts . It may not mean much to the OP, and having extra dynamic toe, camber, and caster movement maybe low in the priority list but it's there (especially when you drop 75% of what tied the rail on the steering end together).


I'm aware there is a lot of chassis flex. Like you said, you can tell when the car is jacked up by how the doors close and line up. That said, my point was to brace where the forces are, not where the greatest effect is seen. How is the 3.2 coupe more rigid than a 1.8 coupe though, other than the engine and giant DSG? Is the subframe different? I wasn't aware of any differences other than the rear floor pan. What are OEM solid frame mounts you mention? Educate me please.


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## Charlie_M (Mar 23, 2011)

20v master said:


> I'm aware there is a lot of chassis flex. Like you said, you can tell when the car is jacked up by how the doors close and line up. That said, my point was to brace where the forces are, not where the greatest effect is seen.


A big part of the strut tower deflection is torsional, aka twisting. Both the crash bar and the SMIC connecting pipe do a lot to prevent the front frame rails from twisting, and combined, they are even better. It's not (just) about keeping the frame rails spaced apart the right distance.



> How is the 3.2 coupe more rigid than a 1.8 coupe though, other than the engine and giant DSG? Is the subframe different? I wasn't aware of any differences other than the rear floor pan. What are OEM solid frame mounts you mention? Educate me please.


Not sure about the 3.2, but the convertible has additional subframe bracing to make up for the reduced torsional rigidity due to losing the roof. I think even with uprated mounts, you can't count on much reinforcing from the engine & tranny.

Also, if you keep your FMIC setup like the pictures, you might want to add a little flexibility to the mounting; otherwise you could end up trying to use the FMIC as a brace, which would likely crack at some point.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

20v master said:


> I'm aware there is a lot of chassis flex. Like you said, you can tell when the car is jacked up by how the doors close and line up. That said, my point was to brace where the forces are, not where the greatest effect is seen. How is the 3.2 coupe more rigid than a 1.8 coupe though, other than the engine and giant DSG? Is the subframe different? I wasn't aware of any differences other than the rear floor pan. What are OEM solid frame mounts you mention? Educate me please.



You guessed it right, the 3.2 is the only coupe with the Roadster subframe. The roadster subframe reinforced the front end by 30% to make up for the 15% lost over the coupes. The Rodster frame mounts are also solid two pieces items (delrin I believe). All the Mk4 golf guys that road race upgrade to TT roadster frame mounts and replicate the extra bracing of the roadster subframe. According to them it totally transform their cars and can see it having the same effect on a regular coupe also (no exaggeration when I warn against removing even more front end rigidity by removing the cross pipe and crash bar).

*Roadster/3.2 subframe where you can see the OEM bracing and solid mounts *







[/B] *


Cross bar that I added to improve on the extra OEM roadster bracing 
*


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Charlie_M said:


> A big part of the strut tower deflection is torsional, aka twisting. Both the crash bar and the SMIC connecting pipe do a lot to prevent the front frame rails from twisting, and combined, they are even better. It's not (just) about keeping the frame rails spaced apart the right distance.
> 
> Not sure about the 3.2, but the convertible has additional subframe bracing to make up for the reduced torsional rigidity due to losing the roof. I think even with uprated mounts, you can't count on much reinforcing from the engine & tranny.
> 
> Also, if you keep your FMIC setup like the pictures, you might want to add a little flexibility to the mounting; otherwise you could end up trying to use the FMIC as a brace, which would likely crack at some point.


Charlie, we seem to be on the same wave length on this. I thought the same thing when I saw the FMIC mounts. I didn't say anything because I figured tha it would Just break the welded stud (intercooler side) when subjected to chassis flex. Are you an engineer by any chance?


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Well I guess I know what I'm doing after my build is done. Im ordering my coilovers and brembos next month so I guess Ill be getting a roadster subframe at the same time. Thanks for the info. I wasen't aware there was any difference in subframe design. 

Marcus, is the roadster subframe a direct fit or is there any modification involve?

As far as my intercooler mounts, the metal stock we used flexs pretty good. JC said that the mounts would have to be able to flex for the same reason you mentioned so hopefully I should be good there.


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## Charlie_M (Mar 23, 2011)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> *Roadster/3.2 subframe where you can see the OEM bracing and solid mounts *


And you can see unauthorized roll center correction and caster increase 



> *Cross bar that I added to improve on the extra OEM roadster bracing *


You might not be allowed to add triangulating bracing, but that's a pretty convenient & effective triangle you generated with one straight brace. :thumbup:


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## Charlie_M (Mar 23, 2011)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Are you an engineer by any chance?


Yeah, but don't hold that against me ...


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Charlie_M said:


> And you can see unauthorized roll center correction and caster increase


Yes, for caster and camber increase trough my custom ball joint relocating plates. I purposely didn't elongate the ball joint pivot to mounting point distance to relocate the roll center and keep it legal in my SCCA class. You have amazingly good eyes (although you missed the elongated swaybar arms that effectively reduce the bar's rate.



Charlie_M said:


> You might not be allowed to add triangulating bracing, but that's a pretty convenient & effective triangle you generated with one straight brace. :thumbup:


Yeah, the roadster existing factory braces made it hard to pass on the opportunity.




Charlie_M said:


> Yeah, but don't hold that against me ...


Definitely will! :laugh:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Dowski12 said:


> Marcus, is the roadster subframe a direct fit or is there any modification involve?
> 
> As far as my intercooler mounts, the metal stock we used flexs pretty good. JC said that the mounts would have to be able to flex for the same reason you mentioned so hopefully I should be good there.


The subframes are interchangeable between the models without modification. I would suggest that you sandwich some rubber grommets or something in between the welded IC bolts and frame brackets. It would make it much more durable to chassis flex.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Ok, I got plenty of extra rubber grommets so Im sure I have some that will work. Thanks for the help. There is a guy selling his subframe and control arms from his 05 3.2 for $325 shipped. My question is, do I need his control arms or can I just get the subframe and use my own? Also is there any benefit to swapping to his control arms? And finally is this a good price for everything?


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Dowski12 said:


> Ok, I got plenty of extra rubber grommets so Im sure I have some that will work. Thanks for the help. There is a guy selling his subframe and control arms from his 05 3.2 for $325 shipped. My question is, do I need his control arms or can I just get the subframe and use my own? Also is there any benefit to swapping to his control arms? And finally is this a good price for everything?


Nope, no need to get his control arms. They are all the same (except for the unicorn pre-recall "MK1 ones) and your arms will bolt to his subframe. As far as pricing, $325 seems fair although I've seen them go for dirt cheap. BTW while you have it out, before swapping the subframes, I'd weld the two round ears on the frame (the ones that house the rearward mounting bushings) to the diagonal roadster braces. It is worth the trouble, although I have not done it to my car due to classing restrictions. :beer:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Ok thanks for the advice. I think Ill take a look at my class restrictions before I weld anything though.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Got some goodies in the mail today. Nothing can stop me now!!!

Stainless Pipes for my intercooler









Podi Boost Gauge (my current one only went to 20psi)


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Wait..., your class allows you to run 2 turbos but you CAN'T add extra chassis support?


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

And is it just the angle or does the gauge read less than zero with nothing hooked to it?


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

20v master said:


> And is it just the angle or does the gauge read less than zero with nothing hooked to it?


I've seen that happen with many mechanical pressure gauges (usually Autometer). They can be fixed/calibrated to sit in the zero box but I'm not sure what that does to the accuracy of the gauge.


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## Luis92 (Jan 25, 2011)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> but I'm not sure what that does to the accuracy of the gauge.


it will take boost to get to "0" wich will mean "NO boost"


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> I've seen that happen with many mechanical pressure gauges (usually Autometer). They can be fixed/calibrated to sit in the zero box but I'm not sure what that does to the accuracy of the gauge.


Yeah, I like having my Zeitronix wideband with the ability to calibrate the boost sensor to compare to my analog gauge.  I just started a new job and moved recently, and decided that my stroker/35R setup is going in my black TT, along with the gauge setup. The GTI will have to make do with rods and a 2871. :laugh:


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

Should of got a tr8 or a tr12. Said it a few times that the tr10 is to wide for the crash bar. Much smarter to run the crash bar.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

I agree, would be smarter but theres no turning back now Definitely gonna add some support though to make the car more rigid at least. Buying a 3.2L subframe from a guy on here, hes sending it on friday so that will help. JC is going to weld a support between the crash bar mounts too, probably out of some nice thick round stock he has at the shop. It wont do much to save the intercooler but hopefully it will help protect everything behind.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

It is sitting below zero, not sure if its supposed to be like that but we'll see what happens when its hooked up. If its a problem ill swap it for a new one.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

JC sent me photos of the 60-1 after powder coat.


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## snow_muncher (Jul 6, 2010)

Awesome stuff :thumbup:

I'm currently on a GT2860RS, but want more power AND faster spool

Not prepared to suffer a laggy single big turbo though


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Update: Cold side intercooler piping is welded up and polished, turned out really nice. Hot side is half finished but we are waiting on silicone couplers to show up, should be here tomorrow. Both turbos are back from powder coat and welding, and both look amazing!!! Now on top of all that we are changing the layout of my setup. Instead of one being behind the motor on the manifold and one mounted on the driver side, we've decided to make a custom header to wrap around the motor and have both turbos on the drivers side (sitting side by side). After we mocked up everything with both turbos in the car, I can tell you this is definitely the way to go. Shortens up my piping quite a bit. Not to mention its going to look sick when you open the hood to find 2 turbos staring you right in the face. I will have pictures later. Went over today with my carmera but as soon as I tried to click the first pic, the batteries died. Stay tuned.

Oh also I recieved my maestro 7 tuning suite in the mail yesterday, and bought a 3.2 subframe off of a guy on vortex. Should be here Thurs


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sorry guys, been a while since I updated. Things have been crazy busy so I hadn't gotten a chance to get over to the shop and take pics. Just a few updates...

Cold side Pipe finshished and looking pretty, tight fit under the headlight









































Started my header yesterday, looking pretty rough right now

















The header should be tacked up today, I'll go and get more pics later...stay tuned


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Also bought a Sigma 6 short shifter today. Got to lookin at the pictures I posted and all I could see was metled plastic when I looked at the shift linkages:laugh:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


>


That yellow/brown stuff? That looks like cosmoline, a rust preventitive wax like goo they spray in places on the chassis. How it got there I have no idea.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

There used to be a factory sticker or something there that left the glue behind when it got pulled of. It looks all gross because after my clutch swap, the guy who installed my transaxle didn't tighten the torx bolts down enough and my axle came off while I was driving and got trans fluid all over the place Now I replaced both sides with regular hex heads so I guess it wasn't a total loss.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Header is welded and polished and ready for the chrome ceramic coating. Turned out really nice and should be about the shinniest thing under my hood once its done


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Went back and fixed a bunch of photos in my thread. Some were pretty terrible quality so now its not so much of an eye sore when reading through this thing:facepalm:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Heres a picture of my new/used 3.2TT subframe. Thanks for the advice max, and can't wait for those custom injector nozzles


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Looking good Steph!


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

looked into welding the arms on the subframe to the rearward facing bushing ears but my class restrictions only allow seem welds I could always try just welding the top side where it would be really hard to inspect with it on the car...what they dont know wont hurt them


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Dowski12 said:


> looked into welding the arms on the subframe to the rearward facing bushing ears but my class restrictions only allow seem welds I could always try just welding the top side where it would be really hard to inspect with it on the car...what they dont know wont hurt them


I wouldn't do it if there are class restrictions against it. If I was going to cheat by welding, I'd rather do it somewhere more useful like welding the said bars into the subframe (by the outer side of the ears that house the subframe bushings)... Or even better, weld a bar across, that would tie the forward control arms mounting point housing.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Hahaha...yeah when I got it in the mail I was just imagining all the great places you could weld on these subframes. I would never cheat like that though. As you know, they take that sh*t super serious and I'd hate to show up and not be able to race I might try welding a couple of points just to see how it performs on the street though. Might be neat to see how much handling improves with welds on different points.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Ok...so I've been talking to JC about my car lately and I think I am going to have him make me a custom tube frame for my car. He is going to look into prices and such for me and if its not too expensive, I'm pretty positive I'm going to do it. Only thing is that will take me out of the time attack game and really only leave me with drag racing...not sure how I feel about that

Let me know what you guys think.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Dowski12 said:


> Ok...so I've been talking to JC about my car lately and I think I am going to have him make me a custom tube frame for my car. He is going to look into prices and such for me and if its not too expensive, I'm pretty positive I'm going to do it. Only thing is that will take me out of the time attack game and really only leave me with drag racing...not sure how I feel about that
> 
> Let me know what you guys think.


Do you mean a tubular subframe? A "custom tube frame" will basically mean building a new car from scratch. If I'm not mistaken there is a company that makes one, as well as tubular control arms but I had too many beers celebrating the Heat in the NBA finals to remember the name of the company.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Nope, Im talkin from scratch, chassis and all. I've been looking at all the different class restrictions and not one time attack class allows tube frames. Buying one would be nice, but I could build one for much cheaper.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Dowski12 said:


> Nope, Im talkin from scratch, chassis and all. I've been looking at all the different class restrictions and not one time attack class allows tube frames. Buying one would be nice, but I could build one for much cheaper.


Cool to build but at that point it really has nothing to do with your car anymore or a name TT for that matter. It's kind of like what a NASCAR Toyota Camry has to do with the real car, basically nothing. JC can build you a tube frame car but not a custom tube frame for your car.


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## seth_3515 (Dec 26, 2008)

USRT is coming out with the tubular sub frame. Why not just pick it up and save time and money over a custom?


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Any more info on the subframe?


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Seth did you find any pictures of the USRT tube subframe. I looked all over and couldn't find anything on it.

This is kind of what I have in mind


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Got my Sigma 6 short shifter in the mail


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Talked to JC more about the tube frame, he seems to think it would be pretty easy to do. He wants to cut the floor out of the body and lift it off and build the entire tube frame and set the body back down on it. We would then replace the heavy floor with aluminum to cut down on extra weight. Material wise I think we will go with mild steel just to save money. JC thinks we can get the weight down around 1800-2000lbs. What do you guys think?


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> Talked to JC more about the tube frame, he seems to think it would be pretty easy to do. He wants to cut the floor out of the body and lift it off and build the entire tube frame and set the body back down on it. We would then replace the heavy floor with aluminum to cut down on extra weight. Material wise I think we will go with mild steel just to save money. JC thinks we can get the weight down around 1800-2000lbs. What do you guys think?


 opcorn: The TT is coming along nice man! would like to see pictures of turbos in engine bay but time will come!! As for the frame and weight, well wish you the best of luck but I for see a f*!$king race car that is going to be on the street....  This build has to be one of the better builds in the TT thread, the amount of work you are willing to do and money your willing to put in is just nuts!! :laugh:


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## seth_3515 (Dec 26, 2008)

Im sorry the USRT subframe isnt available yet.. Justin and Scott had mentioned it to me before but it hasnt come out just yet. Besides, it looks like you are wanting to go full tubular. The subframe would just consist of the 3.2 section you replaced your old one with.. Not a full front radiator support and all like Im thinking you are wanting. However, I think its a lot more time and money than it is "easy" to do what you are talking about, but if you are willing to spend the money then by all means man run with it!! :thumbup:


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

That's exactly what I was thinking.. if you want to go tubular for the entire frame you're just talking about a *NEW CAR*. If you really want to do it, might at well just keep the TT, build the tubular frame you want and make the whole damn thing as light as you want with fiberglass/aluminum everything and drop that motor in it. 


In any case, really interested to see what you do. Keep it up (with pics) please opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks for the kind words fellas... 

Racecar on the street is exactly what I was thinking. I have another build thread in the Utah/Navada regional forum, the guys over there aren't as optimistic as you all. Pete from IE said it would make a horrible street car, which I'm not inclined to disagree with him, but I'm not building this thing to be a boring luxmobile. Yes this is costing me alot but I only have my gullible wife to thank for it. When I told her I wanted to do a tube frame, I said it was because the benefit of having a lighter car was so that there was alot less strain on the motor and drive train so I would be saving myself money in parts in the long run...Its kinda true, dont judge me:facepalm: 

Sigma 6 Shot Shifter installed, feels much better


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Dowski12 said:


> Talked to JC more about the tube frame, he seems to think it would be pretty easy to do. He wants to cut the floor out of the body and lift it off and build the entire tube frame and set the body back down on it. We would then replace the heavy floor with aluminum to cut down on extra weight. Material wise I think we will go with mild steel just to save money. JC thinks we can get the weight down around 1800-2000lbs. What do you guys think?


 Maybe you're explaining it wrong but what you describe is just making a full cage but the hard way. 
We have a unibody, that body panels attaches to... if you build a tube frame, it entirely replaces the unibody and subframes. It is a tubular shell that will host suspension pick up point, drivetrain mounting points, as well as body panel. 

You don't cut a unibody from it's floor pan, build what would really be a cage and drop the old shell back on it :facepalm:. Stuff like A frames, roofs, firewalls etc. don't exist with tube frame cars. It's a tubular skeleton with body panel (usually a single fiberglass outer skin), suspension, instrument panel, seats, and drivetrain bolted to it.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Yes this is what I'm doing but I plan to use as much of the orginial body as possible. It will be a complete tube frame front to back, but what I am planning on doing is gutting as much unnecessary metal work from the unibody as possible with leaving the outer skin intact. There will be attachment points for everything you metioned but instead of the panels being fiberglass or plastic I want to use all the originals. Later on I can think about replacing hoods, fenders and trunk lids with composite material, but for now I think we can make the orignial skin work. Call it what you want, whether its a cage or a frame its going to be light!  

Unibody Tube frame Dogde Challenger 










Alot like this, I just want to replace more of the unibody frame then they did. Whatever we have to do to make it work I guess. I dont want this to look like a tube chassis race car with riveted on body work. From the outside I want it to appear as much like a factory TT as possible, and underneath I want a fire breathing track monster that no one see's coming.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sigma 6 Pics...


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

seth_3515 said:


> Im sorry the USRT subframe isnt available yet.. Justin and Scott had mentioned it to me before but it hasnt come out just yet. Besides, it looks like you are wanting to go full tubular. The subframe would just consist of the 3.2 section you replaced your old one with.. Not a full front radiator support and all like Im thinking you are wanting. However, I think its a lot more time and money than it is "easy" to do what you are talking about, but if you are willing to spend the money then by all means man run with it!! :thumbup:


 I called innovation design & Fab they said they could make a tube subframe but the cost will be over $1,000


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

I dont know if thats a good price or not. If it includes powder coat I wouldn't mind paying that, but I know JC could make it for me for less. My tube frame shouldn't cost too much. I'm gonna buy all the tubing over the course of several months and once I have enough for the whole frame JC is gonna fab it up for me. He does his own powder coating so I dont have to worry about other shops bumping up prices or anything like that.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Just thought I would snap a couple of more shots of the turbos since they should be in the car in the next day or two, stay tuned


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## seth_3515 (Dec 26, 2008)

Dowski12 said:


> Yes this is what I'm doing but I plan to use as much of the orginial body as possible. It will be a complete tube frame front to back, but what I am planning on doing is gutting as much unnecessary metal work from the unibody as possible with leaving the outer skin intact. There will be attachment points for everything you metioned but instead of the panels being fiberglass or plastic I want to use all the originals. Later on I can think about replacing hoods, fenders and trunk lids with composite material, but for now I think we can make the orignial skin work. Call it what you want, whether its a cage or a frame its going to be light!
> 
> Unibody Tube frame Dogde Challenger
> 
> ...


 If you are going to put that knid of money into it, why even cut up the TT? you could sell it. use the money to get fiberglass panels and be even lighter... I just think you are wayyyy beyond the point of impractical. As said earlier, its not going to be a good street car at all. You wont get the money out of it and it will just be a bottomless pit. Im all for badass streetmachines, but you are talking about building a strict racing car and not going to be taking it to the track religiously or following a circuit or regional race series.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Im not sure your following what I'm saying. Eventually, my car wont see the street except for maybe spirited runs throught the canyon or quick trips to the corner store when I'm getting the itch to drive it. I'm not looking to drive this thing cross country, this is a racer. Yes it will be registered and can be used on the street, but why is everyone assuming that is the only purpose of my car? Practical for you...maybe not, but I say, what is so impractical about a lightened race car. Im doing something new, and whether people agree with it, matters very little to me in the end. I do appreciate people's opinions but that doesn't mean I'm going to take someone's random online suggestion because "they" think they know whats best for "my" car. Thanks for the input though. I don't want to offend anyone and its not like I'm building the frame tomorrow. The direction I'm going with my car has changed a thousand times in the last year and I'm sure things will change a thousand times before I decide the final direction my car is going to go, but for now a tube frame sounds fun and interesting:laugh:


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## seth_3515 (Dec 26, 2008)

Even so, a full tubular frame car for te occasional corner store trip and canyon run is beyond impractical money wise. If you have more money than sense by all means do it. But for what you described the car to be used for I doubt you will ever need it not will you drive it to its capabilities.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Right now we are throwing around the idea of GT racing, so the canyons and corner store are not my only intensions. I assure you, this car will be pushed to its limits. Money is not the issue here, if it were it wouldn't be where it is now. Sense...I might be a little short on, that just makes things that much more fun:laugh:


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## Mantvis (Jan 1, 2010)

So what goin on? 

NASCAR now? :laugh: jk jk


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

Mantvis said:


> So what goin on?
> 
> NASCAR now? :laugh: jk jk


 It certainly isn't going to be a TT if it's a tubular frame  



I'd still love to see it built and see the times it makes in a 1/4 mile and how much faster it goes around a track, too :thumbup:


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## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

Dowski12 said:


> Just thought I would snap a couple of more shots of the turbos since they should be in the car in the next day or two, stay tuned


What heads are those? I know harley but turbos blocki.h alot of it. Twin cam?

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

Naybe sportster?

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Yes that is a harley head, not too sure what its from though, JC has like 10 bikes laying around his shop so it could be from anyone of them. 

Im not ******* enough for NASCAR:laugh:


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## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

Lol nice. Thought maybe you were a Harley man

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Ok fellas, the moment we have all been waiting for...TURBOS ARE IN THE CAR!!!


























































Pretty hard to get a shot of the header, but its installed, as well as the up pipe to the small turbo. Every thing is tach welded right now and we still need to fab an elbow from the large turbo to the small turbo's inlet, but I'm pretty happy with the progress so far.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Looks good dude. What are you going to do about the heat from those bad boys? The bigger one is in a bad spot. Your going to be generating a lot of heat where you have a bunch of electrical looms running wiring. Also, that turbo heat is going to heat up your intake piping. Love the idea though.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

I have turbo blankets for both turbos, all the piping is being ceramic coated, and I also have heat wrap for them if the heat is really that much of an issue. I also have black fiber glass covers for all the wiring in my engine bay. The turbos have plenty of clearance from anything with the potential to melt. Im cutting vents in the hood so I can get some air flow over the turbos, and I'm considering doing fender vents so all that air flow has somewhere to go. Not sure yet though, I dont want to cut up my car if its not necessary.


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

Wowza! Just half-ass the rest of it real quick so you can dyno it!! :laugh:



Looks good. Find some cold air for your intake and keep your battery from getting hot :thumbup:opcorn:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Haha...too much $$$ involved to half a$$ it. The battery is going in the trunk, I think it will be plenty cool.


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## seth_3515 (Dec 26, 2008)

Wheres te exhaust going to go? I know it's tight right through there.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Its running right off of the big turbo under the black transition pipe. It will run around the motor above the header and then mount to my 42dd down pipe. It looks like a giant cluster f*ck but there is actually quite alot of room left to fit everything. That wont be the case when we fab up the waste gates though. We had them mocked up with the setup how it sits right now and it just looked insane. When all is said in done, you wont be able to tell what goes where:laugh:


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Thats crazy, props for really making it happen, excited to see more :thumbup:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Im debating on which spark plugs to go with. JC told me to get NGK V-Powers but I haven't heard of anyone else using these on our cars. Has anyone used these?


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

People say to use the NGK copper plugs (V-Power) because "it gives a hotter spark", but you should replace those every 5k miles. Do that and you'll wear out your coil packs faster from pulling them out more often than normal. I'm sticking with the NGK Laser Platinums and changing them every 40k miles. Platinums aren't as good a conductor of heat as copper, but they last a lot longer and I have never had an experience with failed detonation.




For me, the choice between continuing to use the coppers vs the platinums was easy

hotter spark (seemed the same) *or* longer life on coil packs


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

I just bought the V-powers, I want to make sure this thing is going to work before I go buying better plugs. Hopefully if something is going to melt, it will be the cheaper v-powers before a piston or something important:laugh:


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## Scullies (Apr 17, 2012)

That is awesome, nice to see someone taking the challenge on.

Are you using the std ecu or are you going to use stand alone?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> I just bought the V-powers, I want to make sure this thing is going to work before I go buying better plugs. Hopefully if something is going to melt, it will be the cheaper v-powers before a piston or something important:laugh:


Vpower's will die fast but they are cheap at least.

I use NGK BKRE7IX stock number 2667

if you want one heat range colder swap out the 7 for an 8. They are NGK Irridium "racing" plugs. Only plugs I've used that last- found them on Max's recommendation.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Chuckmeister87 said:


> Do that and you'll wear out your coil packs faster from pulling them out more often than normal.
> 
> hotter spark (seemed the same) *or* longer life on coil packs


Really Chuck? Coilpacks failing because you take the plug out 

Stephen, the NGK coppers plugs will be fine for testing and tuning. I'd suggest the two step colder with your setup, I run 8 heat range in mine (4662 stock number)


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks Marcus, sounds like solid advice as usual


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Nice great progress :thumbup:


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Really Chuck? Coilpacks failing because you take the plug out
> 
> Stephen, the NGK coppers plugs will be fine for testing and tuning. I'd suggest the two step colder with your setup, I run 8 heat range in mine (4662 stock number)


Hey, that's what my parts guys said about them. They both said when you replace the spark plugs more often and you have to pull the coil packs out, it causes stress to the "shaft" area where the coils are wound. Over time, changing your spark plugs more often will cause the coil packs to wear out more often.

Now, not seeing any big difference when I changed from laser plats to copper (other than the coppers would gap much quicker and I'd have to regap them), I decided to just stick to the laser plats. My car is mostly stock. The only modifications I'm going to do to the drive of the car is it to improve the longevity of the car in any way I can. :thumbup:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Chuckmeister87 said:


> Hey, that's what my parts guys said about them. They both said when you replace the spark plugs more often and you have to pull the coil packs out, it causes stress to the "shaft" area where the coils are wound. Over time, changing your spark plugs more often will cause the coil packs to wear out more often.


That's why they are parts guys. I have previously worked in that field for over a decade, with advanced certification for many manufacturers including Mitsubishi, Nissan and Isuzu and GM. Most regular parts guys only have basic knowledge of the mechanics involved with the parts they sell, put them in front of an engine bay to do a proper diagnostic or even turn a wrench and they are lost. 

The rate at which you'll be taking coilpacks in/out to swap plugs can't have any realistic impact on the expected life of such a part. :beer:


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## Audiguy84 (Nov 14, 2006)

ya right.... I need to start quoting more coil packs because i take coil packs out all the time.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> Vpower's will die fast but they are cheap at least.
> 
> I use NGK BKRE7IX stock number 2667
> 
> if you want one heat range colder swap out the 7 for an 8. They are NGK Irridium "racing" plugs. Only plugs I've used that last- found them on Max's recommendation.


Correct answer. :thumbup: I ran 8's on my 10:1 2008cc 35R setup, but probably would have gone back to 7's on E85.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Not much progress but its somethin...


























I know the transition pipe between the turbos is welded and ground so I'll get some pics of it tomorrow morning.


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

Get this beast running already. I'm eager to see a dyno! opcorn:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

We were waiting on a v-band to get here so I can remove the entire turbo setup by just removing the V-band and a bolt from each turbo bracket. They origionally sent us the wrong size V-band so we had to wait for another one to get here. Now all we need to do is finish welding and grinding a few pin holes on the pipes and send those out to ceramic coat. While those are gone, we are going to relocate the battery, and do the complete fuel system so as soon as the pipes come back we will be about ready to fire this sucker up!!!


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

This thing is going to be crazy.

It might be time to go twin F23 on the TT:laugh:


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## ModsTTand (Jul 8, 2009)

warranty225cpe said:


> This thing is going to be crazy.
> 
> It might be time to go twin F23 on the TT:laugh:


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## EvilVento2.oT (Dec 1, 2003)

looks cool , way better then i expected


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks, Should look pretty amazing once everything is finished and hopefully the performance will match the looks


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## exboy99 (May 14, 2002)

this car is real? ...from the first page I was like hmmmm, but HOW? 

but it looks like it's happening. Good luck, hope to see it come together 
and give you the performance your hoping for. :beer:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

You can ask my strained bank account if its real...it will confirm it:laugh: 

But seriously its come a long way, and taken me alot longer than I'd hoped. My guess is it will be on the dyno in about 2 to 3 weeks. Theres really no telling though, I've been given a dozen finish dates and all have been overshot by a mile...or 1,000!!!


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> My guess is it will be on the dyno in about 2 to 3 weeks.


 Yeah, about that. It won't be ready then.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

How are you approaching tuning? Where did you start? Are you doing it yourself?


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

20v master said:


> Yeah, about that. It won't be ready then.


 What he said...:laugh:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

l88m22vette said:


> How are you approaching tuning? Where did you start? Are you doing it yourself?


 Car has to start before you can tune No I am sorry to say I have no tuning experience at all, but JC is the man when it comes to quality tunes. I'm sure he can squeeze all the power out of this setup, and leave me a shread of realiablity, what little there will be:laugh:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Anyone know a good shop here in Utah? Im getting pretty fed up with Fast times motorsports not working on my car for weeks at a time. It seems as though I have to be there for them to even lay a hand on it. I didn't work overtime this weekend since JC decided he wanted to make a big push to get as much done as he could and then i show up today and my car is parked outside and the shop is locked up. I dont think he realizes that you actually have to work on the car for it to get done...wierd. Tried calling him a couple of times and there is no answer as usual. Not sure what to do about it, hes the only one that I know of that knows how to tune a compound setup. Pretty sure I could finish the build myself its just the tune I'm not 100% on.


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## wrestler4life521 (Aug 12, 2010)

Yikes, sorry to hear that. Unfortunately I don't have any input but I do hope someone else here does.


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Just wait it out maybe he had a emergency you really don't whant to have some one else just jump in to some one else's work :thumbup:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Its not just this time. The car could have been done months ago but he keeps avoiding my project for weeks at a time. I told him yesterday he has 2 weeks to finish it or I'm taking it to someone that will put the time in to finish it. My wifes car took a Sh!t yesterday too so now we are down to one car. Hopefully he will put the time in to get it done. I dont want to take it somewhere else but if thats what it comes down to I wont have much of a choice.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Dowski12 said:


> Its not just this time. The car could have been done months ago but he keeps avoiding my project for weeks at a time. I told him yesterday he has 2 weeks to finish it or I'm taking it to someone that will put the time in to finish it. My wifes car took a Sh!t yesterday too so now we are down to one car. Hopefully he will put the time in to get it done. I dont want to take it somewhere else but if thats what it comes down to I wont have much of a choice.


 I'm sure that he will get things moving after you gave him a deadline. Having another shop jump in another shop's work is never a good thing. Hope you get running soon, I want to see numbers out this setup.:beer::beer:


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> I'm sure that he will get things moving after you gave him a deadline. Having another shop jump in another shop's work is never a good thing. Hope you get running soon, I want to see numbers out this setup.:beer::beer:


 :thumbup:


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## Atomic Ed (Mar 19, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> Anyone know a good shop here in Utah? Im getting pretty fed up with Fast times motorsports not working on my car for weeks at a time. It seems as though I have to be there for them to even lay a hand on it. I didn't work overtime this weekend since JC decided he wanted to make a big push to get as much done as he could and then i show up today and my car is parked outside and the shop is locked up. I dont think he realizes that you actually have to work on the car for it to get done...wierd. Tried calling him a couple of times and there is no answer as usual. Not sure what to do about it, hes the only one that I know of that knows how to tune a compound setup. Pretty sure I could finish the build myself its just the tune I'm not 100% on.


 Try calling Integrated Engineering in Salt Lake. If they can't do it, they'll know some who can.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Im gonna go over to JC's tomorrow and see what he got done this weekend. I'm just not sure how to react if he didn't touch it after giving him the deadline. Six months is just hard to swallow for a job he orginally told me 4 weeks to complete. I knew it wouldn't be done in that time frame but 6 months is a long way off from 4 weeks. I've been over there to help the guy a bunch of times, and when he actually gets down to working on it, he does great work. I just dont like the fact he pushes my car to the side if I'm not there to help, I'm mean what am I paying the guy for, because at this point its more of a storage fee. 

I would love for integrated to do the work on my car (and to sponsor the build) but its just a little out of the way. They're about 50 mins south of where I live so getting it down there would be a pain and then on top of that, going to check it out and document whats being done for you fellas would be near impossible with my work schedual.


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## rabbitchaser (Sep 20, 2004)

Integrated is not a repair shop or build shop they just build product there great guys just not a shop for repais


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

rabbitchaser said:


> Integrated is not a repair shop or build shop they just build product there great guys just not a shop for repais


 What part of a compound turbo setup is a "repair?" Let Pete and Dave decide if they can offer their services to this guy instead of steering him away.


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## Mantvis (Jan 1, 2010)

20v master said:


> What part of a compound turbo setup is a "repair?" Let Pete and Dave decide if they can offer their services to this guy instead of steering him away.


 x2 :thumbup:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Well it's official, I'm having my car towed 40 miles south of where I live to Rob's Speed Shop!!! They seem like a stand up shop so I'm pretty psyched to see what they can do for me. There's also been talk about a 2.0 stroker so stayed tune, this could turn into a totally new build all together. The only sh!tty thing about the whole situation is I'm already into JC for $4700 and I know I'll never get a dime of that money back, and now I have to pay another shop to finish the job. It blows but if it gets my car done, well worth it in my opinion.


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Sorry to hear about the run-around but awesome project... I can't wait to see how this pans out :thumbup:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Well I got the car over to Rob's speed shop yesterday and Rob was just full of bad news. After taking a look at everything JC had done, it turns out we cant really use any of it. Both turbos are F*cked to the point that he wont put them on the car. The header that JC made is useless because the runners are too small for my HP goals, and their not even port matched to exhaust flange. The wastegates are going to be too small. He said I was going to need bigger injectors then the ID1000's that JC told me to get (wierd). He doesn't like the stainless steel piping that we used for the IC piping and wants to change it to aluminum. Pretty much starting from scratch. Not a total loss though, I called JC today and now I'm getting $2200 back for all the crap he ruined. 

Rob suggested that I just do a single setup at this point. I am getting pretty short on cash but I'm not sure how I feel about abandoning the compound setup. What do you guys think?


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## Mantvis (Jan 1, 2010)

Dowski12 said:


> Well I got the car over to Rob's speed shop yesterday and Rob was just full of bad news. After taking a look at everything JC had done, it turns out we cant really use any of it. Both turbos are F*cked to the point that he wont put them on the car. The header that JC made is useless because the runners are too small for my HP goals, and their not even port matched to exhaust flange. The wastegates are going to be too small. He said I was going to need bigger injectors then the ID1000's that JC told me to get (wierd). He doesn't like the stainless steel piping that we used for the IC piping and wants to change it to aluminum. Pretty much starting from scratch. Not a total loss though, I called JC today and now I'm getting $2200 back for all the crap he ruined.
> 
> Rob suggested that I just do a single setup at this point. I am getting pretty short on cash but I'm not sure how I feel about abandoning the compound setup. What do you guys think?


Sorry about the news.
We want compound set up! 
But its up to you! your money


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Compound or bust!!!

Future plans for me include either a VGT Holset or Compound Holsets... would love to see what you can do with this :thumbup:


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Compound sounds great, but were you given any kind of ballpark for what it will cost? Also, why is this guy so much better than the first? I'd still call IE and get their 2¢, they are in-state and have a proven rep


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

IE is actually doing the 2.0 build on the motor for me. Rob's Speed Shop was recommended to me by IE. It is a really reputable shop while Fast Times Motorsports was just some place I found online:laugh:


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Nice, good to hear man, glad the sequel will be better :thumbup:


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## dsteele333 (Dec 18, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> IE is actually doing the 2.0 build on the motor for me. Rob's Speed Shop was recommended to me by IE. It is a really reputable shop while Fast Times Motorsports was just some place I found online:laugh:




Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk 2


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

I hope to see you go compound its different and very interesting .I would rather wait another year and follow this post then see you go single turbo but it comes down to money either way you got my support :thumbup:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Honestly man, it sounds like a load of bull from a shop that is scared of tackling the compound project. Some of the reasons given are ridiculous and they just want to start from scratch and do what they are comfortable with. The shop doesn't like stainless piping and want to redo everything aluminum, is it their money that's paying for it? The direction of your build shouldn't be dictated by any shop, you give them a project and they tell you if they can do it or not, period.

Everybody may not want to say it to you but I'm going to keep it real with you. IMO, it's time to do some damage control with this thing (good thing is that some cash back from the previous looser):

- Turbos are ****ed, send them to G-pop and have them rebuilt (couple hundred dollars)

- Wastegates aren't properly sized, get the right ones fitted.

- Injectors are too small (which I doubt) call Scott at USRT for the size that they recommend and tell him Max sent you. Put the ID 1000 in the forced Induction classified, they will go quick.

- After you confirm that the header is bad, have them fab a new one that will work. If they can't do that, run while you can.

- Ask them all the serious questions. Can they do a compound setup? How much it's going to take to finish what was started? What's the time frame? Can they realistically help with tuning since they are getting you commited to a specific injector size? 

Now, my question for you is how much do you want this project to succeed? What are your plans if this new shop can't tune it (the plumbing is nothing special or complicated for any competent shop, the tuning is the hard part). Was there any airflow calculations (in CFM) made for the setup?


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the kind words...

Max,

Its not really the shop dictating the direction I'm going with my project at this point. The only thing holding me back is money. After speaking with Rob and letting him know what kind of funds I'm left with after the previous F*ck up, it was just his suggestion to go single because I really dont have the money to start a compound from pretty much scratch. When I started this project I knew exactly how much money it would cost me to do the entire build, parts, labor and tuning. I had extra money put aside just in case my own estimate wouldn't be enough, but after six months of paying for basically nothing, the money I had just kept getting chipped away at until now, and theres pretty much nothing left. If it had been done right, and been done anywhere near the time frame I was told, paying for the project would have been no problem. It wouldn't take me very long to get the funds together to be able to accomplish my goal but at this point I just really need my car back. I'm still leaving the option open for a compound set up while IE is doing the 2.0 stroker conversion on my motor, but that in itself is gonna cost a couple grand. At least with the stroker, if I end up going the single route, will help with spool. If I go with a single setup, I figure I will go with a PTE 5558 dual BB with billet wheel and a v-banded hotside. Rob suggested keeping the turbo on the side of the motor just because it would be a pretty unique setup, which I like because if later I decide to do the compound setup, it wont take nearly as much fabrication. On the other hand, having the header wrap around the motor when it doesn't actually have to just seems like it would hender the spool.

I also thought that the ID1000's would be enough so Rob said he would do some calculations for me to make sure that we couldn't use them. Also he had already done some calculations for the flow I would need with the compound setup and it was around 80cfm which he said the header JC made wouldn't get me anywhere near.

By the way, if everyone really wants to see this get done I'd be glad to take donations:laugh:


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

By the way, if everyone really wants to see this get done I'd be glad to take donations:laugh

^^^^^^^ lmao!!!!!


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Ill call it "THE SCREWED TT FUND". Personally I think it could be a big hit. 

(By the way I dont except anything smaller than $1000)


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## seth_3515 (Dec 26, 2008)

So no full tubular chassis? I was more interested in that..


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Probably not being as that its gonna be a challenge to afford to get this thing running:laugh:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Ok some single setup thoughts...

What kind of spool and hp numbers could I be looking at if I went with a PTE 5858 CEA w/.82 TS hotside and a QSV, all on my new 2.0 stroker? Same for a 6262. I know that the quick spool valve's are supposed to reduce spool by as much as 500rpm and increase down low torque and mid range power. Just wondering what kind of spool characteristics I would be looking at if I were to throw the billet wheel, TS housing, QSV, and 2.0 stroker all in the mix. I would think it would make for a pretty impressive power band. I assume going DBB wouldn't make much difference if I was to use a QSV. Would I be better off going with a full twin scroll setup?


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## poopie (Feb 22, 2005)

i have a comp t4 5858 journal bearing on my a4. it spools like 20 psi at 4k and pulls hard till redline at 7800. once my built head goes on i'll stretch it out little more. spool comes on fast after 4k. i haven't gone too crazy on the boost yet. motor is still a little new.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

What kind of numbers are you making at 20psi? What size A/R is it? Are you running a stroker?


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Another thing that will help spool is by using VVT, Eurodyne (for example) allows you to have it function in low revs to increase spool/response - http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5116947-Who-is-using-VVT-to-make-power


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

l88m22vette said:


> Another thing that will help spool is by using VVT, Eurodyne (for example) allows you to have it function in low revs to increase spool/response - http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5116947-Who-is-using-VVT-to-make-power


Testing on my car showed horrible drive-ability and 1,000 rpm INCREASE in spool time to 5,500 RPM. The drive-ability was bad because you could literally feel and wait for the VVT to move the chains. Don't bother investing in this yet.

Spool concerning single turbo 5857: I run the smaller housing .62 vband and with a stock displacement motor/big port manifold/head/70mm TB I make full boost at 4,500 RPM. 30 psi I made 465awhp with a terrible tune.

I have logs from a 2.0L stroker running a GT30 with full boost at 3,500 rpm. 2.0L is going to be the best modification to reduce lag. Wish I would have done it honestly.

5858 vband .62 and a 2.0L stroker setup = :thumbup:

I'd stray from the 6262- I've only been in a stock displacement car but I can tell you they are laggy and I don't see the point in waiting until almost redline for boost. 4,500 rpm is late already but at least I have a powerband of 3k.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks for the info Doug. I'm also concidering a GTX3076R full twin scroll setup. I'd imagine it would have pretty decent spool and be able to make over 500hp on the 2.0 stroker.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

I hadn't heard about the VVT problems, thanks for the heads-up man :thumbup:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

After talking with Rob, he seems to think the TS setup on such a small frame turbo, wouldn't do very much in the way of spool. He said the GTX3071R would give me just as good spool by itself and paying $1400 for a tubular TS manifold would just be a waste of money. He also suggested a PTE 5558 CEA DBB turbo instead of the GTX. Says it gives better spool at a lower cost. Not sure about Precision though as far as reliability goes. Not to mention all the Precision/Garret crap going on right now, precision is just making themselves look stupid:laugh:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

So, more good news. Afte Integrated Engineering got my motor taken apart they found that the last machine shop left all kinds of crap in my motor. As soon as they got the head off, there was a bunch of dirt, hair and metal shavings that they said looked like welding slag, sitting ontop of the pistons. The piston ring lands had dirt and grim in them so when you turned the rings it feels gritty. Also when they painted the block, they got paint in the oil filter galleys, coolant flange ports, and on the bottom of the block where the oil pan is suppose to mate to it. When they pulled my oil pan bolt, it was cross threaded and there was more metal shavings. When they installed my ARP crack damper bolt, they didn't use loctite and it wasn't torqued to spec. Thats all they found so far but I'm sure I will be adding to the list the farther they get into it. Guess I'll be calling Jensen's auto machine shop this week looking for my money back. Modding cars is so much fun


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## Tempes_TT (Oct 24, 2010)

Dowski12 said:


> So, more good news. Afte Integrated Engineering got my motor taken apart they found that the last machine shop left all kinds of crap in my motor. As soon as they got the head off, there was a bunch of dirt, hair and metal shavings that they said looked like welding slag, sitting ontop of the pistons. The piston ring lands had dirt and grim in them so when you turned the rings it feels gritty. Also when they painted the block, they got paint in the oil filter galleys, coolant flange ports, and on the bottom of the block where the oil pan is suppose to mate to it. When they pulled my oil pan bolt, it was cross threaded and there was more metal shavings. When they installed my ARP crack damper bolt, they didn't use loctite and it wasn't torqued to spec. Thats all they found so far but I'm sure I will be adding to the list the farther they get into it. Guess I'll be calling Jensen's auto machine shop this week looking for my money back. Modding cars is so much fun


:facepalm:


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Dowski12 said:


> So, more good news. Afte Integrated Engineering got my motor taken apart they found that the last machine shop left all kinds of crap in my motor. As soon as they got the head off, there was a bunch of dirt, hair and metal shavings that they said looked like welding slag, sitting ontop of the pistons. The piston ring lands had dirt and grim in them so when you turned the rings it feels gritty. Also when they painted the block, they got paint in the oil filter galleys, coolant flange ports, and on the bottom of the block where the oil pan is suppose to mate to it. When they pulled my oil pan bolt, it was cross threaded and there was more metal shavings. When they installed my ARP crack damper bolt, they didn't use loctite and it wasn't torqued to spec. Thats all they found so far but I'm sure I will be adding to the list the farther they get into it. Guess I'll be calling Jensen's auto machine shop this week looking for my money back. Modding cars is so much fun


In light of this, and whatever else comes to the surface, it's a good thing you had to switch shops to finish your engine build. Better to find out now than when it's all buttoned up and you're terrorizing the track!


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Yeah, for sure. At least the motor is in the right hands now.


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## seth_3515 (Dec 26, 2008)

If you are that worried about spool, you could go 2.1l since you dont have the ALH block for 2.2l. That combined with a good awic setup with 2.5" hot side and 3" cold side piping to reduce lag as much as possible. I think I have a total of 2.5-3 ft of piping doing this. Stay away from the tubular manifolds and just go a nice cast PPT or similar to control heat and keep the velocity of the exhaust gases up. I haven't been able to drive enough for a good review on the 5857BB but from the little I got to drive it so far, the spool is definitely bearable and I'm not stroked (yet  ) if you stroke it and stay with a 3076 to 5858 sized turbo i think you'll be happy with spool and power. Also, get a vband housing if you can. I really wish I would've


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

We are doing a Billet 5858 DBB on a vbanded housing, .64 A/R, 2.5-3" IC piping, and tubular mani. I'm already goin to be stroked so even with a tube mani I should still get pretty decent spool. I'm pretty sure later on down the road I will re-visit the compound setup using my 5858 and something smaller that will match up good, but for now a single setup is more in my budget after wasting so much money on crappy mechanics.

Rob also offered to paint my car...well kinda:laugh:. We are going to do a little plasti dippin just for fun. I'm thinking either doing gunmetal with black accents, or the new matte blue with black accents. At the moment I'm leaning more towards the blue simply because the gunmetal looks too much like primer. The blue is really bright and will definitley turn heads. Rob has plasti dipped cars before so I assume it will turn out pretty decent, but if not it can always come off.


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> So, more good news. Afte Integrated Engineering got my motor taken apart they found that the last machine shop left all kinds of crap in my motor. As soon as they got the head off, there was a bunch of dirt, hair and metal shavings that they said looked like welding slag, sitting ontop of the pistons. The piston ring lands had dirt and grim in them so when you turned the rings it feels gritty. Also when they painted the block, they got paint in the oil filter galleys, coolant flange ports, and on the bottom of the block where the oil pan is suppose to mate to it. When they pulled my oil pan bolt, it was cross threaded and there was more metal shavings. When they installed my ARP crack damper bolt, they didn't use loctite and it wasn't torqued to spec. Thats all they found so far but I'm sure I will be adding to the list the farther they get into it. Guess I'll be calling Jensen's auto machine shop this week looking for my money back. Modding cars is so much fun


I hope you took pics of the mess with the motor that way you have proof just in case
They say they didn't do that :thumbup:


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> plasti dippin just for fun. I'm thinking either doing gunmetal with black accents, or the new matte blue with black accents. At the moment I'm leaning more towards the blue simply because the gunmetal looks too much like primer. The blue is really bright and will definitley turn heads. Rob has plasti dipped cars before so I assume it will turn out pretty decent, but if not it can always come off.



:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:

Do not do this. Trust me. I've done it and regret it.

It gets everywhere & it sucks to wash and collects dirt. It also isn't that easy to get off and good luck getting it out of the seals.


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## poopie (Feb 22, 2005)

good choice on the turbo! to answer you earlier question, yes i'm bored and stroked to 2.0l with a journal bearing billet 5858 .63 AR hot side. It is an awesome set up. From what i read, you don't really gain too much on the spool up with the triplex BB 5858, but the response and respool between shifts is much better. With the 2.0l it still feels like it has more torque down low than my chipped tt 225. You are flowing much more air even though you aren't at the same PSI levels. 


The compound set up would be cool, but i think a single turbo set up is more reliable and predictable. If you run into issues i think more people will be able to help you out.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

01ttgt28 said:


> I hope you took pics of the mess with the motor that way you have proof just in case
> They say they didn't do that :thumbup:


Yeah, IE took a bunch of pics for me and sent them to my phone and I asked them to take as many as possible so I have something to back me up.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

DougLoBue said:


> :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:
> 
> Do not do this. Trust me. I've done it and regret it.
> 
> It gets everywhere & it sucks to wash and collects dirt. It also isn't that easy to get off and good luck getting it out of the seals.


Yeah, I remember how much trouble it gave you but the only difference is I have someone else to take care of all that head ache:laugh:. Im only planning on leaving it on for like 6 to 8 months while I wait to respray my car. At that point I'm gonna sand blast the whole car anyway so I wont have to worry about peeling tiny pieces off at a time. Im gonna do all the prep work myself to save a little money on the respray.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Dont know if anyone cares, but this is the look I'm going for on the car once the build is done. Took me like 7 hours using paint on the computer to finish this...dont judge me:laugh:


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## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

I like it

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks 

By the way, anyone looking for an intercooler, I'm selling my brand new Treadstone TR1035, w/completed cold side SS pipe, and I have extra SS pipe to complete the hot side. I'm going AWIC and need to sell it asap to help pay for the fab work. If anyone is interested let me know, I'll let it go for $250 plus shipping.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Before








After


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## VelveTTrevolvr (Jul 31, 2009)

Any updates?

:beer:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Not really much to talk about as of yet. The motor is back from Integrated Engineering and is in the car. Currently I'm just getting the funds together to complete everything. 

On a side note, I haven't been able to get ahold of JC to get the money he owes me. After talking to a lawyer about the whole situation, I'm thinking the $2400 we agreed on isn't gonna cut it at this point. If I'm going the legal route, might as well go for the full amount plus damages, since JC has decided to give me the run around. I'm pretty sure that A$$hole changed shops too. I've been by his shop about 15 times to try and collect. Every time its closed up and all the cars he used to have sitting out side are gone. Go figure:banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> Not really much to talk about as of yet. The motor is back from Integrated Engineering and is in the car. Currently I'm just getting the funds together to complete everything.
> 
> On a side note, I haven't been able to get ahold of JC to get the money he owes me. After talking to a lawyer about the whole situation, I'm thinking the $2400 we agreed on isn't gonna cut it at this point. If I'm going the legal route, might as well go for the full amount plus damages, since JC has decided to give me the run around. I'm pretty sure that A$$hole changed shops too. I've been by his shop about 15 times to try and collect. Every time its closed up and all the cars he used to have sitting out side are gone. Go figure:banghead::banghead::banghead:


Dame u think he would close up shop over $2000 that's crazy maybe he has some other problem 
Going on ????


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

I dont think he changed shops just because of the money. He had already found a new shop, but to my knowledge, he wasn't moving for a couple of months. I think it was just a perfect opportunity to move earlier, and avoid paying me at the same time.


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Dame that sucks looks like u took th shaft!!!! :facepalm:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Yeah, with no lube...

I'm waiting on a quote for the rest of my build. Once I know how much the rest of this is going to cost me, the updates should come a little quicker.


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Your perseverance is noteworthy for sure :thumbup:

Looking forward to the final results :beer:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Well, got all the fund together and paid the man...parts are on the way. Waiting on my Precision 5858, a BBM oil cooler, and an AWIC set up to get here. The motor is being picked up for my custom tubular v band manifold tomorrow, so hopefully should have some pics in a week or so

I'm so glad I get to spend money again, I was going through withdraws


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

I'm so glad I get to spend money again said:


> Lol!!


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

:thumbup:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Finally some progress!!!










Custom made exhaust mani in the works


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Turbo came in today.


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Two turbos ???


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## ModsTTand (Jul 8, 2009)

01ttgt28 said:


> Two turbos ???


Same size??


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

haha...only one is mine, the other is going on an STI


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

BBM oil cooler, pretty impressed with the quality


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Are u ditching the factory oil cooler???


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Yes, the kit comes with a thermostatic sandwhich plate so there really is no reason to keep it.


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## wrestler4life521 (Aug 12, 2010)

Any updates?


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

As of right now, we have everything to complete the build. Rob's fabricator completed the exhaust manifold (which turned out amazing!!!) Still waiting on Rob to install the motor so the car can be towed over to his fabricator's shop to do all the pipework for the IC and downpipe. The guy does great work and is pretty fast too, so I would guess that we should be up and running in about 2 to 3 weeks. (Don't quote me on that:laugh

Oh, I was thinking of buying my big brake kit, I was going to wait and install it myself but since I'm wainting for my car anyway I figure I would just get it now and have Rob throw it on for me. I'm thinking about going with a Wilwood BBK, any thoughts/experience?


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## chrg-in (Jan 24, 2003)

BBK, for my input which is only worth what you paid for it 0.00.....
My group of friends have tried 5 kits so far, the Willwood was the least impressive.
Personally I've used Stoptech which was OK, after 1 test-drive on Alcon's I sold the Stoptech's and switched over.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Its not a dedicated track car or anything. Basically just my DD for now with track days (strip/circuit) every once and a while. I was looking at the Wilwoods just because the rotors are on the smaller side (rotational mass and all that jazz), but I like the added benefit of the the 4 piston caliper for better pedal feel. I don't really want anything thats drilled or slotted since it will pretty much be a waste for what I'm using it for. Not really interested in looking pretty behind my wheels either 

If I could get by with just upgrading my rotors, pads, and fluid, while being able to beat on them on track days, that would be ideal. Sometimes less is more :thumbup:

I'm not set on the wilwood's or anything so any suggestions are welcome.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> Its not a dedicated track car or anything. Basically just my DD for now with track days (strip/circuit) every once and a while. I was looking at the Wilwoods just because the rotors are on the smaller side (rotational mass and all that jazz), but I like the added benefit of the the 4 piston caliper for better pedal feel. I don't really want anything thats drilled or slotted since it will pretty much be a waste for what I'm using it for. Not really interested in looking pretty behind my wheels either
> 
> If I could get by with just upgrading my rotors, pads, and fluid, while being able to beat on them on track days, that would be ideal. Sometimes less is more :thumbup:
> 
> I'm not set on the wilwood's or anything so any suggestions are welcome.


If track days = road courses, then pads, rotors, and fluid changes won't make enough of a difference to last 20 minute sessions.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

20v master said:


> If track days = road courses, then pads, rotors, and fluid changes won't make enough of a difference to last 20 minute sessions.


Thats what I was thinking to begin with. There are some really good deals on porsche boxsters on ebay so I think I'll just pick up a set. What stock size upgraded rotors is everyone running?


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> Thats what I was thinking to begin with. There are some really good deals on porsche boxsters on ebay so I think I'll just pick up a set. What stock size upgraded rotors is everyone running?


I run C4S front calipers on stock size rotors.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Will a set of Porsche 911 996 Brembo Rear Brake Calipers from a 2000 model work? Not sure of the part number.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> Will a set of Porsche 911 996 Brembo Rear Brake Calipers from a 2000 model work? Not sure of the part number.


They should, but I can't guarantee. My C4S fronts are the same as Turbo rears, so a slightly smaller (piston size) rear caliper should work. I don't know if they all have the same bolt spacing though since I bought mine with adapters included. The only thing that may need to be done to make them work is to flip the crossover tubes so they're on the bottom and flip the caliper so the smaller piston of the two is the leading piston (clamps the rotor as it comes into the pad, not as it leaves). ECS has the correct banjo bolts to use with OEM/aftermarket SS lines.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

You dont by chance have a part # do you? Are the C4S calipers better than the Boxster calipers?


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

My caliers are 996.352.425 and 996.352.426. I don't know the piston size difference between all the calipers to know which is "better." These are Turbo rears from what I'm looking up, but I remember they were the same as some front calipers, but don't remember the model. Sorry.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

well I currently have a bid on some 2002 Porsche 911 996 Carrera Fronts. Hopefully their the right ones.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Got my porsche 911 996 front calipers today!!! Now I just need to find adapters, and 330mm 2 piece rotors...any suggestions?


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

I've got Zimmerman rotors. And you WILL need spacers.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

warranty225cpe said:


> I've got Zimmerman rotors. And you WILL need spacers.


 But 312mm or 330mm? Where'd you source the spacers?


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

^^^^^ 
This 

And if anyone knows where I can get adapters for these, I'd greatly appreciate it. I found some on ebay but there made in the UK and I dont feel much like waiting for them to get here


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Dowski12 said:


> ^^^^^
> This
> 
> And if anyone knows where I can get adapters for these, I'd greatly appreciate it. I found some on ebay but there made in the UK and I dont feel much like waiting for them to get here


 Not sure where to get them pre-made, but you can always have them cut by a machine shop. Very simple part to blueprint and have machined (shouldn't be too expensive if you have a place you use all the time).


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> ^^^^^
> This
> 
> And if anyone knows where I can get adapters for these, I'd greatly appreciate it. I found some on ebay but there made in the UK and I dont feel much like waiting for them to get here


 Got my adaptors of eBay in UK they where pretty cheap their in my build with the name of the company 
I got them from :thumbup:


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

Dude, finish it already! I really want to see what a biturbo TT is like. I've always had dreams of my own, but I'm not turning my AG baby into a demonopcorn:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

:banghead::screwy::what::banghead:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Chuckmeister87 said:


> Dude, finish it already! I really want to see what a biturbo TT is like. I've always had dreams of my own, but I'm not turning my AG baby into a demonopcorn:


I think you've missed a few updates buddy, haha. This was going to be a compound turbo setup, not a biturbo. Since I have moved the car to a different shop, and started completely over, it is no longer going to be a compound setup, just a plain jane single, with a precision 5858, and AWIC all on a 2.0 stroker. Sorry


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> I think you've missed a few updates buddy, haha. This was going to be a compound turbo setup, not a biturbo. Since I have moved the car to a different shop, and started completely over, it is no longer going to be a compound setup, just a plain jane single, with a precision 5858, and AWIC all on a 2.0 stroker. Sorry


Sorry ??? Still a great build :thumbup:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Yeah but it seemed like Chuck was pretty hyped up about the compound setup, just saying sorry for the disappointment:laugh:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Been a while so I thought I'd post an update. Went to Rob's shop today, not much progress but he has the motor put together, I had a bunch of broken exhaust and intake studs, and he got the exhaust mani bolted on with the turbo. He said it should be in the car in the next couple of days and off to the fabricator. 

Also I got everything I needed for my porsche brake upgrade, ended up going with slotted 312mm rotors instead of upgrading to the 330's. Also got front and rear braided lines, adapters, and Hawk HPS pads.

Sorry about the picture quality, my camera broke so all I got is my phone which is from the stone age.


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

If I did not know any better, you are going to run in to problems with the turbo hitting the under side of the rain tray. Unless you have some plan for that by now! opcorn: And yes still watching this thread, its a bummer it did not go over well with the compounds!


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Congrats on seeing some daylight with this project :beer:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Steph, seeing that it's a top mount and sitting real high due to the size of the turbo, I urge you to take care of heat management before it goes back in the bay. It is much easier/cheaper now that the powertrain is out, so take advantage. I would get the manifold and at the minimum the turbine housing ceramic coated, but in these cases even the cold side could use some help (can't really tell from the pic if the hotside is coated). Also, order a blanket and some heat wrap for the intake tube and downpipe. 

The number one issue faced by people with top mounted kits is heat management. Anything you can do now preemptively will save you some headaches (and melted stuff) down the road. Glad to see that it's coming together! :beer:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

20psi now said:


> If I did not know any better, you are going to run in to problems with the turbo hitting the under side of the rain tray.


Yeah, with how far the comp housing is from the valve cover, I can tell it's going to be a tight fit if it'll fit at all.


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## jbrehm (May 16, 2006)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Steph, seeing that it's a top mount and sitting real high due to the size of the turbo, I urge you to take care of heat management before it goes back in the bay. It is much easier/cheaper now that the powertrain is out, so take advantage. I would get the manifold and at the minimum the turbine housing ceramic coated, but in these cases even the cold side could use some help (can't really tell from the pic if the hotside is coated). Also, order a blanket and some heat wrap for the intake tube and downpipe.
> 
> The number one issue faced by people with top mounted kits is heat management. Anything you can do now preemptively will save you some headaches (and melted stuff) down the road. Glad to see that it's coming together! :beer:


Yes, definitely take care of this inevitable issue now.


And, guessing, based on your pics compared to my top-mount PTE setup, that setup won't fit in the car. It looks like you'll need some firewall massaging, and I bet your cold side hits the heater-core fittings. I'd grab some of these, and put them on while the coolant is already out.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

20psi now said:


> If I did not know any better, you are going to run in to problems with the turbo hitting the under side of the rain tray. Unless you have some plan for that by now! opcorn: And yes still watching this thread, its a bummer it did not go over well with the compounds!


Yes it is tight but Rob did a test fit and it clears everything, the fire wall did need some messaging but it works. I agree that the compounds would have been cool, but at this point I just can't wait to drive the damn thing :laugh:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Steph, seeing that it's a top mount and sitting real high due to the size of the turbo, I urge you to take care of heat management before it goes back in the bay. It is much easier/cheaper now that the powertrain is out, so take advantage. I would get the manifold and at the minimum the turbine housing ceramic coated, but in these cases even the cold side could use some help (can't really tell from the pic if the hotside is coated). Also, order a blanket and some heat wrap for the intake tube and downpipe.
> 
> The number one issue faced by people with top mounted kits is heat management. Anything you can do now preemptively will save you some headaches (and melted stuff) down the road. Glad to see that it's coming together! :beer:


Have no fear my friend, Liquid Inovations shares a parking lot with rob's shop and they do all kinds of coatings. They are doing the exhaust housing, DP, exhaust manifold, and I have enough heat wrap to cover the DP all the way down past the subframe plus to do anything else that might be an issue. I also have a PTP t3/t4 turbo blanket from the previous build thats going on over the ceramic coating :thumbup:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

jbrehm said:


> Yes, definitely take care of this inevitable issue now.
> 
> 
> And, guessing, based on your pics compared to my top-mount PTE setup, that setup won't fit in the car. It looks like you'll need some firewall massaging, and I bet your cold side hits the heater-core fittings. I'd grab some of these, and put them on while the coolant is already out.


Massaging, yes indeed. The heater core fittings are being rerouted already. IE is just up the street from rob's shop so everything I need is just a block or two away, thanks for the link though :beer::beer::beer:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Dowski12 said:


> Have no fear my friend, Liquid Inovations shares a parking lot with rob's shop and they do all kinds of coatings. They are doing the exhaust housing, DP, exhaust manifold, and I have enough heat wrap to cover the DP all the way down past the subframe plus to do anything else that might be an issue. I also have a PTP t3/t4 turbo blanket from the previous build thats going on over the ceramic coating :thumbup:


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Looking good im sure u cant wait to start getting speeding ticks lol!!! Im two ahead of you:thumbup: :facepalm:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

LMAO!!! Don't worry, I remember. I'm really hoping we can get it done before next month. I'm takeing a trip down to Vegas and it would be nice to get all my "break in" miles in one trip, not to mention there are loads of cops between me and Vegas so it will give me an opportunity to catch up :thumbup:


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> LMAO!!! Don't worry, I remember. I'm really hoping we can get it done before next month. I'm takeing a trip down to Vegas and it would be nice to get all my "break in" miles in one trip, not to mention there are loads of cops between me and Vegas so it will give me an opportunity to catch up :thumbup:


Lol!!!


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Motor is officially going in (hopefully for the final time) tomorrow!!! I'll post pics once it's all buttoned up :thumbup:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Dowski12 said:


> Motor is officially going in (hopefully for the final time) tomorrow!!! I'll post pics once it's all buttoned up :thumbup:


 Nice to see a light at the end of the tunnel :laugh::thumbup:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

So great to discover this thread. I haven't yet read it all, yet.

Just two days ago, I was contemplating a thread on this topic, since there's so much discussion about trading off spool-up for top-end flow. I was recalling of the "Twin turbo Supra," but realizing that it's misnamed, because "twin" means identical (like the Buick Grand National), rather than "sequential." My wife's diesel BMW X5 has the sequential setup, and both the response and power band is awesome. (On the other hand, my Dodge diesel with the Holset turbo has excellent response and powerband, too ).

I assume the challenges in our 1.8t configuration are the limited space for the turbos and plumbing, and the added weight up front. How did they solve this in the Supra, which isn't that much larger than the TT?

I look forward to reading through the rest of this thread with great interest.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Movin Forward!!!


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## Converted2VW (Apr 8, 2009)

Looking good! Tight like a glove in there, isn't it?


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks, just a little lube and it slipped right in haha


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> Thanks, just a little lube and it slipped right in haha


Nice makingsome great progress


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Yep, the car got towed to the fabricator yesterday so it shouldn't be too much longer now.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Making Progress!!!


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Nice dude!!


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks...its getting there, FINALLY!!! :laugh:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Well don't exactly know what to say about the progress...or lack there of :facepalm:








Only noticeable difference I could tell from the last picture he sent me was my BOV is installed. I hate cars.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

What's the plan for an intake and how will you combat the heater core lines?


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Hey, it's only been a month. That BOV must have given him hell! :laugh: J/K. I hate waiting on others, because they never do it when they say it will be done. Anyways, I'm digging the IC setup. Looks similar to what I was dreaming up in my head yesterday as I don't want a FMIC. Patience. :beer: Hopefully the rest will come together quickly.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

18T_BT said:


> What's the plan for an intake and how will you combat the heater core lines?


Wire mesh, and you don't need a heater core with the turbo that close to the fire wall. :laugh:


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

I see one major improvement, he tapped the SEM manifold for the TB, so no need for a clamp now  Sorry it's taking you longer than you like, see if you can do any of the work yourself, maybe that will speed it up?


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Not sure about the intake, I asked yesterday because he said the fab work was done. He said he wasn't sure if his fabricator made an intake or not. Things are looking more shady by the day. I purchased some 90 degree heater core fittings so they will clear the turbo inlet.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Dowski12 said:


> Not sure about the intake, I asked yesterday because my said the fab work was done. He said he wasn't sure if his fabricator made an intake or not. Things are looking more shady by the day. I purchased some 90 degree heater core fittings so they will clear the turbo inlet.


IT sucks that you cant trust anyone to do sh!t these days. And most of them that do, are clueless..


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Yeah...on top of everything Rob is going to Ireland till the end of next month, so I don't see my car getting done for another couple of months


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## chrg-in (Jan 24, 2003)

Just a little thing, you may want to change out the Allen bolts holding the turbo on to Studs. 
This way with heat and cooling you should have less stretch issues.


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## SteveCJr (Aug 3, 2008)

Saw this and reminded me of this thread.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Just a heads up, if anyone is in the market for a Maestro Tuning Suite, I'm selling mine (never used) for $600+shipping, that's $200 less then if you were to purchase it straight from Eurodyne. If anyone is interested let me know.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Well it looks like I will be finishing the build myself. I have no confidence that Rob will get it done within the time limit that I need him to finish it, and I believe by telling him that I need it done asap, he will just half ass the rest of the build, so to ensure that it gets done and gets done right, I'm taking the reigns. I've got Tyler from integrated engineering to help me so at least I will have someone with a little expertise on our platform to keep me going in the right direction. Before anyone starts to tell me that I should just leave it there, and that I should wait it out, know that my experience with Rob's speed shop has been about the same, if not worse then the last shop that had my car. The guy has no interest in finishing my car what so ever. He is all about making money, not about creating a quality build. I'm only thankful that the only interaction he has had with my car is taking the motor out and bolting it back in!!!


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Garage builds are the best anyways. Good luck moving forward. :beer:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Hopefully I can get it done before I move. I got excepted to flight school 5 hrs south of where I live, and I'm leaving Aug 12th. Not much time, but I dont want to cut corners after waiting this long. I got alot of texers that are local who are willing to help, so I think even with the limited amount of time, we should be able to make it happen.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Well got the car towed on Friday over to my buddies garage but didn't start digging into it till Sunday. The pics I posted before gave the impression that this thing was almost done and only needed afew things to be buttoned up before it was up and running, well let me tell you, nothing could be farther from the truth. There is honestly not a single thing that is complete (with the exception of the motor, done by IE). We started by removing the turbo because the wastegate wasn't installed, and we wanted to see if any piping had been plumbed for the wastegate...NOPE. While I was looking back there, I also noticed there was only one bung for my O2 sensor, even though I was assured by rob that there would be two so I could install my wideband gauge. There was also studs and nuts missing from the exhaust mani. From there we decided to remove the intercooler core and the intake mani because there was only 2 bolts and 1 stud holding the manifold on. After removing those we found that there was still blue masking tape over the intake ports from before the motor was installed. At this point I had to take a break since I was pretty much ready to take a hammer to the whole project. After a few beers and a little coming down, we decided to remove the radiator clip so we could install my new aftermarket radiator (another thing not done). That went pretty smooth other then the fact that pretty much every electrical connector I have found is either broken or ripped completely in half. We reinstalled the intake manifold with all new studs and hardware and finished installing the missing studs and hardware for the exhaust manifold. We installed my new coolant reservoir and called it a night. 

So basically I am at a point almost exactly where my car was a year ago. Built motor, half done fab work, and alot of broken and missing parts. I mentioned to Rob that I would be needing some of the money back that I already paid him, but he doesn't seem to agree, so small claims court is in my future. Can anyone tell me how you pay someone $16,240 (its actually more, but thats all I have documentation for), give them your car for a year, and get it back with nothing complete and not expect to recieve any money back

For future reference, if anyone happeneds to be in Utah and need some work done, DO NOT, under any circumstances, take it to rob speed shop. He will feed you full of lies, take multiple vacations on your dollar, a give you nothing in return!!!


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Car as it sat after getting everything torn apart to finish installing the parts that were supposedly already installed.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

16K is more than the car is worth, what is all that about? For that kind of money, you can ship it here to DMV, I'll install whatever you want and ship it back to you. Or you can fly out here and drive it back :laugh:


Good luck with the progress :thumbup:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Document EVERYTHING that the shop didnt do. Youll need it when you go to court. If you go about it right, you might be able to get ALL of your money back + damages for having to deal with so much bullsh/t. Take his sorry ass to court and make an example of him. You gave him an opportunity to make it right. Now drag his ass through the dirt.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

For Sure!!! Im Not Really Interested In Trying To Get All Of My Money Back, And honestly I Dont Think A Court Would Give It To Me Regardless. I Want To Get enough Back That I Can Complete My BUild Without Having To Dig Into My Own Pocket More Then I Already Have. I Dont Think Its Crazy To Think That Spending 20K And Giving A Year To Complete The Project, Should Be Enough Time And Money To Have A RUnning Car At This Point, And Im Sure The Courts Will Agree. Ill Be Sure To Document As Much As Possible.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Dowski12 said:


> For Sure!!! Im Not Really Interested In Trying To Get All Of My Money Back, And honestly I Dont Think A Court Would Give It To Me Regardless. I Want To Get enough Back That I Can Complete My BUild Without Having To Dig Into My Own Pocket More Then I Already Have. I Dont Think Its Crazy To Think That Spending 20K And Giving A Year To Complete The Project, Should Be Enough Time And Money To Have A RUnning Car At This Point, And Im Sure The Courts Will Agree. Ill Be Sure To Document As Much As Possible.


:thumbup::beer:


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## Converted2VW (Apr 8, 2009)

Good luck bro! :beer:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Things have progressed pretty good so far. Getting pretty close to the end goal.






Had to re-arrange some stuff but it will be better for it.


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## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

ITT: Motivation to do a BT build
ITT: Motivation NOT to do a BT build

Hope this thing sees asphalt soon!


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Well haven't posted in quite a while, left for flight school back in August so this is the first time I've seen the car since then. Pretty happy with the progress, Jason at JP Autoworks has definitely helped me out by taking on this project even though so much was messed up or missing. Getting really close.









Fuel setup is complete, along with oil cooler, brakes, boost piping and intake. Tune is paid for and we are just waiting on a wide band ECU to flash that sucker and get my car back on the road.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Got my new wideband ECU, hopefully the last piece of this crazy 2 year puzzle


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## FatAce (Jan 30, 2012)

opcorn:


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> Got my new wideband ECU, hopefully the last piece of this crazy 2 year puzzle
> 
> Crazy i havent been on hear in allmost 2years and your still going! but looking good keep it up theirs allways light at the end of the tunnel lol.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sorry I haven't been keeping up on this thread, been away at flight school so I've been short on time and on money so there wasn't much progress till now. Jason redid my AWIC reservoir to give me around a 5 gallon capacity in the system and also hooked me up with a better pump. I also had him add a filler neck on the side of the inter cooler since it's the highest point in the system. Couldn't find my crash bar after being moved from shop to shop, so he custom fab'd one for me out of some tubing. The wide band conversion is complete and my new ecu with my custom gonzo tune is installed. The battery has been relocated to trunk and we've decided on a final mounting location for my aem wide band and boost controller gauges. I've been in cedar city since August so these are the only pics I have of everything to date, let me know what you guys think.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Car was started for the first time in over 2 years today. Ran into a slight snag though, need new radiator fans. Jason said they started it up and what do you know the fans weren't running. Oh well small price to pay at this point. Now all I need to do is find the time to pick it up haha.


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

opcorn:


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## Converted2VW (Apr 8, 2009)

Awesome!!!


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Finished product!!!

Got to hear her start up today, idles smooth, and sounds amazing. Now just need to get the money together to get the car back and then off to the dyno to see what this thing can do.


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## Converted2VW (Apr 8, 2009)

Congrats sir! Hope you can come up with the green soon


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Awesome, excited for you Steph! :thumbup::thumbup:


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## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

Looks great. Cant wait to see the dyno!


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks fellas, shouldn't take too long to get the money, just waiting on a school refund so hopefully just a week or two.


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## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

updates?


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Cars Paid For, Just Doin The Breakin Miles Right Now. Dynos Already Paid For, So After The Breakin Period, We Can Tune My Aem Boost Controller And See What This Thing Makes. Ill Try To Post A Video Of The Dyno Run Hopefully In The Next week.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## lite1979 (Sep 9, 2005)

So, did you end up going with a single turbo after all? Looking good!


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Yes, Just A Single PTE 5858.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Well hit a few snags!!! Got to pull the ECU and send it in to Gonzo. Had a couple of codes pop up that need to be deleted. Cool thing is hes gonna load the newest file for me, bad news is it requires a 4 bar map sensor to run properly. Anyone know where to get a 4 bar sensor that compatible with our cars, and preferably cheap? 

I've gotten to the drive the car once about a month ago, unfortunately at the time the shift linkages hadn't been adjusted so my gears were all ass backwards. Made driving interesting haha. Car felt good though, and Jasen has been putting the miles on for me since I live down in Cedar City now. Hopefully we can get the ECU out and then back in the car. Really excited to get this thing on a dyno to see what 2 years and ton of money has gotten me. Stay tuned:thumbup:


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## Audiguy84 (Nov 14, 2006)

not sure on this, but I think B 5 S4 has a 4 bar map sensor


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

http://shopping.boraparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=278 :thumbup:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Thank You Sir, Part Is Ordered. Is There Any Special Info I Need To Send With My Ecu?I


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Well picked up the car in Salt Lake City this weekend and drove about 300 miles to my house in Cedar City without a hitch. Looked it over when I got home and the only thing out of place were 2 lugs nuts on the rear passenger wheel had come loose, can totally live with that. I still need to put about 100 miles on the car before we can get it on the dyno, and I still need to send the ECU out to Gonzo for the updated tune, but I'm cool with that being as I just spent 3 and half hours driving a car I've waited 2 years for. Played with the boost settings alittle bit and got it up to about 25lbs before I decided that was enough haha. Car felt great though, 2 thumbs up for JP Autoworks for getting this thing put together for me. Highly recommend them to anyone looking to get their car done :thumbup::thumbup:


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Nice  then we can see some numbers


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Got it on the Dyno back in December, just never posted the video, so better late then never



And the results, not spectacular. Plugs were gapped to large so we kept blowing out the spark and we only had an hour on the dyno so we never re-gapped them. Would have made over 500hp, either way, I'm happy with it. Put in new spark plugs and gapped them closer and pulls like a beast. I'll try to get it on a dyno again to see what she's really making.


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## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

Solid numbers considering your gap was big. with the tighter plugs that curve will be much more linear. Glad this all finally came together. Solid build. Well done SKI!


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks bud, it sure is nice to be driving it again.


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## ttwsm (Feb 27, 2011)

So sweet after all this time! :thumbup::thumbup:


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Absolutely, This Things A Beast. I Still Feel Like there's Still A Little Left On The Table, So When I Get The Funds, i'm Gonna Go With An AEM Tuneable ECU To Try A Sqeeze Every Bit Of Potential Out Of This Setup.


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