# C2motorsport VR6T software: anybody else having issues?



## JHBonarius (Feb 21, 2010)

Hi all,

Since a few months I've been driving my Eurospec Golf VR6 2.9 turbo stage 1 (9-10 psi)
For software i'm (or was) using C2 motorsports OBD-2 stage 1 turbo eurospec software v1.42

But I've been having issues.
- response seems to vary from time to time.
- having fault codes (system running too lean)
And the large issue: the car did not pass emmissions tests last week. CO value was 6, where it should have been below 0.7

So I had to take it to an expert tuner in my country. We discovered serious issues regarding the mixture!
It was running lean while idling, then rich when a little bit on throttle, then lean again, then rich again.
That explained the emissions.
The only time it had the proper mixture, was full throttle... but how much do you use that on a day to day basis.

We found a couple of correctional blocks, where the software had stored correction values. It seems the software uses this as it's "self adapting feature"

We did a VAG-COM log and I made a graph on it:









First we thought the lambda sensor was faulty, but it was not!
The tuner loaded back the original software and tuned it to my setup. After that everything was OK!
The car now drives great all the time and passes emission tests.
That means the error was in the C2 software.

I tried to contact Chris about this, but he does not repond.

Does anybody else have these issues?


p.s. while tuning we found that the 4" MAF housing is way overkill for a stage 1 setup. Only a small band in the fuel map is utilized...


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Yeah, There have been a few that have said some things about the tune quality. It is not ideal, though it is not setup for every car. I noticed some of my issues got better as I upgraded the system to flow more ie less restrictive exhaust, cams. I have also looked at lambda with vagcom and concur with your findings. My car also seems to never really adapt fully, it will eventually throw a code after a month or so. I have also replaced the maf, slaved in a known servicable TB and tried two diffrent O2 sensor, one being new, and also replaced all the coolant temp sensors to no avail. I may be going out on a limb here but I feel the 30# tune in more of a gateway tune of sorts. Its ment to get your foot in the door without you blowing something up. The tune was designed to run on all cars, not just one, with a wide asortment of setups. I think thats why it may act like it does on some peoples cars. The 42# tune seems to be much more drivable then the 30# setup. I have driven and rode in many with that tune and some of the issues with the stage 1 setup seemed to be addressed with the stage 2 stuff. 

In the deffence of the tune itself, others and myself included feel that alot of the issues are not really with the tune but more related to turbulant airflow in the MAF. This will cause alot of the fueling issues that some have had or are having. Until I myself try and make a flow straiting device I cannot comment on if it helps though others have had sucess. Bottom line is MAF based setups are very sensitive and are some times not ideal. I can think of several other things I will be adressing, to include moving the filter farther from the MAF, directing the DV port in the intake pipe twards the turbo rather than straight in near the MAF. I will also be switching to a 4in intake with the next turbo. I feel that the C2 chips are great, but they need to be setup perfect to get the most from them. Like most everything we do to our cars its not just bolt it on and expect no issues. I geuss thats all I have to input into this subject.


----------



## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

GinsterMan98 said:


> In the deffence of the tune itself, others and myself included feel that alot of the issues are not really with the tune but more related to turbulant airflow in the MAF. This will cause alot of the fueling issues that some have had or are having. Until I myself try and make a flow straiting device I cannot comment on if it helps though others have had sucess. Bottom line is MAF based setups are very sensitive and are some times not ideal. I can think of several other things I will be adressing, to include moving the filter farther from the MAF, directing the DV port in the intake pipe twards the turbo rather than straight in near the MAF. I will also be switching to a 4in intake with the next turbo. I feel that the C2 chips are great, but they need to be setup perfect to get the most from them. Like most everything we do to our cars its not just bolt it on and expect no issues. I geuss thats all I have to input into this subject.



Yeah the further the MAF is away from the compressor wheel, the better. I also put some square mesh over the end of my MAF to replicate the factory air straightner and that improved things a lot.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Yes, thats what I have come to beleive. Many people on here have done this with great sucess. I like others have blamed to tune before, but the guy who wrote this tune is always willing to help and that goes a long way in my book. It is amazing what can be had from our stock engine components, while other car makes require alot of bells and whistles to get a setup to run right. My vote will go with move the filter farther away and try and make a flow strightiner of sorts in front and behind the MAF.


----------



## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

Yeah the comp' wheel tends to pull the air in 'around' the MAF element instead of over it, so anything you can do to alleviate that will help matters. Some motors running the 42# software seem to run OK without it though. It's very much a try it and see thing.

Yeah I've seen some good results with Motronic tuning. I did consider the ME7 ECU from the Audi 2.7 Bi-turbo engine at one stage as an interesting project. A factory 6 cylinder boosted management system 
But I went standalone instead as I'm really picky and wanted the tune to be spot on, which it is :laugh:


----------



## eliosbluejetta (May 1, 2008)

funny you should ask this year i purchased a c2 stage 1 chip for forced inductiuon vr6 obd2 drove the car for 3 months the chip died i contacted him and he said he would warranty it sent to him sent back reinstalled it turned on the car ran extremely rich but ok it was on start up lets let her warm up fullly warmed still running rich now car misses ok shut off car lets change plugs done restart the car hmmmm doesnt start wtf yup chip died again i dint call him back cause i dont want anything from him ever again now im trying to find someone that can install software on my giac chip to run this thing


----------



## JHBonarius (Feb 21, 2010)

Thank you for your answers. But a lot of you say the setup is to blame...

How come then that the expert tuner had no issue at all? I mean, we did a new log and it looked very nice. Lambda correction was 0, with a small jump when going on boost.

A/F is nice 14.5 at idle and 11 at boost now... 

Tuner mentioned the story about the DV and MAF... but when he was writing the custom software, he experienced no issues...

But there are stories about the #30 tune being suboptimal/bad... There was no warning or such when i bought it! I feel ripped off.

In my opinion C2 might be nice on the dragstrip, but it can lean-out/ruin your engine when used for day-to-day.

@ginmsterman: chris did not write the software? who did then?

@eliosbluejetta: pleas use interpuntion  Did you handle the chip correctly? regarding ESD?


----------



## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

Naturally a custom tune will take into account the actual setup so it is expected to eliminate any effects from differences. That said you should not have gotten the result you did from C2 SW. Something was not right with the chip I am supposing. Could well be you were sent an incompatible tune. I only say this because I have had good AF at idle and boost from day one.

Sounds like you have a good resource in your tuner and are probably making better and more consistent power since you are not cookie cutter.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if your car isn't running right, it's your car. Not the tune.


----------



## JHBonarius (Feb 21, 2010)

Car is running right now with proper tune... so nothing's wrong with setup

Car was build exectly to spec that C2 motorsport sold me the software for.

OBD2
#30 bosch redtops
3 bar FP regulator
C2 95mm MAF housing
turbo pressure up to 0.6 bar = 8.8 psi

I had a lot of emailinteraction with Chris and he knew exactly what I had running.

the point is: they sell software which they tell is plug and play... but it does not seem to be so. At least in my case... and if I see the responses, there are more cases known...


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Oh, I had issues bro for sure. The only one that still presists is a slight stumble at light throttle cruising, A/F going lean. This happens driving around in parking lots or driving down a residential street. In boost I will say that the 30# tune is a bit rich on tip in, this chip was designed for stock CR so I will guess this would help prevent people blowing there 10+ year old 100K+ stock motors. One boost builds, I think it is perfect, holding a low 12 afr. The best fuel economy I could get after the chip was around 27 highway, down from the 29 I could get before hand. At first my old O2 was failing so I had a bunch of issues from that. Then my MAF took a crap and the spare I had was also bad, so that caused some confusion on my part. This chip really needs good quality sensors that work well for it to fuel correctly. 


The main thing people need to understand about these chips is it will not work the same way on car B the same way it worked on car A. The only "perfect" tune is a custom one, for the money you can't go wrong with these chips. I will tell from first hand experience that it is very important that when installing the chip, after disconnecting the battery or changing the O2 sensor to let the car idle for 20 min, this will set the short term fuel trims. After that it is important to go on a good drive on the highway without beating on the car, this will set the long term fuel trims, this can take up to three days! These chips still work of of the stock ecu program and still have to play by its rules. Its the same thing you have to do to set your rediness codes. I will go out on a limb and ask if you had recently cleared any DTC's or swapped your O2? If so did you let the car idle with no throttle input for 20 min? Did you take it on a long drive at highway speed? I bet you did neither and thats why your O2 readings were screwy, because the O2 rediness had not passed yet, just a thought. 

All I am saying is many have had issues and many have had sucess. We all get the same tune, so you have to make sure your 10+ year old car is up to the challenge. I have boosted my 134k motor @ 12psi on a kinetics kit for 1.5 years on a STOCK motor without blowing it sky high. Many trips to the track and she has never let me down yet. All on the same chip you have, V1.42.


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

to boost a car you need to make sure you have replaced all the important censors on your 100k+ car dont jsut slap turbo on it it doesn't work like that


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

Why is everybody here scared to blame the chip??, jeez, quit buzzing about the sensors!:banghead:
The cars AFr's etc were crap on the C2 chip, new software from different tuner: car runs with perfect afr's

Conclusion: It was not the setup it was the chip


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I was not trying to say one thing or another, just pointing out some things that could be causing the poor performance. I was also trying to let the OP in on some things I have learned from first hand experience. The first thing he should have done was contact the tuner, which he did. In addition, I was trying to defend the tune itself and point out that you cannot expect wine from water. The chip is what it is and is still based on the factory ecu. If C2 failed to help him then so be it and he has every right to voice his opinion on this matter for sure. 
Either way it runs good now and he is happy, I just don't understand what he was trying to get from this thread. OP if you want to discuss this with the tuner you can reach him at his new business
http://www.unitedmotorsport.net/ though he might be out of town for H2OI.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

JHBonarius said:


> I tried to contact Chris about this, but he does not repond.


sounds like business as usual for Chris (long standing reputation for terrible after sale support).

i'd suggest phoning or emailing C2 until you get the support you paid for.

He claims to have hired a very talented software tuner, perhaps this mysterious individual can fix your problems for you.


and the reason the new tune works where the old one didnt, is probably because it was tuned with your setups turbulence taken in to account, as apposed to being a tune designed around sensor accuracy/turbulence that is different than your setup.

:beer:


----------



## Filthydubber (May 7, 2007)

pimS said:


> Why is everybody here scared to blame the chip??, jeez, quit buzzing about the sensors!:banghead:
> The cars AFr's etc were crap on the C2 chip, new software from different tuner: car runs with perfect afr's
> 
> Conclusion: It was not the setup it was the chip


Not a surprise... since Jeff left C2, its been.... :thumbdown:


----------



## JHBonarius (Feb 21, 2010)

First: the car did idle for a very long time and I did take it for highway driving before boosting for the first time. It was the maiden voyage, so I had to prime the turbo, check for oil/vacuum/exhaust leaks and on the highway I was sacred a boost pipe would come off, so drove very carefully. No changes afterwards.

By the way: if those are really requirements of the software: why is there no manual with describes it?!
The software is sold as being plug and play. No as requiring calibration! It was a lucky coincidence that I did it the right way, but I can imagine people doing it wrong.

this is how he promotes the software


> Adding a turbo or supercharger to your car and need a way to TUNE it for maximum power? It’s as simple as a chip. Our plug’n play software uses your stock ECU for complete engine management. Install C2 for trouble-free tuning of your project.
> 
> NO expensive ‘standalone’
> NO paying for custom tuning
> NO paying to re-tune with every upgrade


BUT, it seems that it not true:
- its not plug and play
- its not trouble free
- retuning is required
- and i pay for a custom tuning in the end

see my point?
He sells it as if it should work with any setup: I based my setup on a lot of guys' here, so its pretty much the same.


Well, I wanted to know if there were more bad experinces with the software.
If I read some of the respones here, there are...

I would like my money back, but I think I have no way to achieve that from Europe. Especially if he does not reply. I do not think a phone call can add to that. I don't need a guy to fix it, because i had it retuned already.

I was pro-C2, because of the seemingly good results that were posted here on VWvortex. But now I see that that is only a facade.
And I end up spending the money (about 3x C2 chip) on a proper tuner, which I should have done in the first place. In the end I wasted good money on the C2 chip.

I think this thread is a lessons learned for other visitors here: C2 chips may "work" and perform on the dragstrip, 

....but dont buy C2 if you want a proper tune that garantees engine lifetime, emmissions and reliable day to day driving.


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

:screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy:


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Well, now that you put it that way I must agree with you. Please don't feel ill of my for asking questions, I agrre with you that you should get a refund. To be honest with you as I have tried to be I don't think very highly of my chip either, it took me a long time to get it to run ok. I still feel that the 30# leaves much to be desired in the way of daily driving, but it does preform well for the most part. 

I would also like to add that you have data backing up what your saying, most don't take the time to do this. If I could do it all over I would have not gone with C2, I would have gone with something else. In conclution I just feel one can only expect so much from a chip that was programed on a diffrent car than yours. I hope you get some answers from the company that sold you the chip, it makes me angry when they ignore people. Again I was only trying to help you out, not be a chip fanboi.


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

umm c2 doesn't ignore people they are just busy as hell you do realize that H2o is coming up right?


they are at the show they answer my emails all the time every time i email them with out nay issues.

I seen close to 10 cars in the last 5 years run c2 with out any issues and my buddy just did 2 more last month running c2 chips no issues again..... people that have issues screw up the install or they have other issues with the car prior to turbo and c2 install...


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Ok here buddy, for one thing I agree with what you are saying. The chip works well for some, some have had issues. I have to agree with the OP that C2's customer service does not have the best track record with some including me. He has the right to voice that opinon, which he did in a respectful manner. You don't know me from joe blow so before you start saying that people that have issues are doing it worng you should bite your tounge. Are you even running this setup? because if your not or have not you really don't have a place to base your statements on. I didn't see you posting anything helpful for the OP, only sensless banter about how it just always works for everyone. Stop being a typical Vortexer and read.:screwy:

Oh and my car was a stock 98k GTI with all rediness codes passed, no MIL and a 29mpg highway daily driver. My car was as perfect as a 10+ year old car could be minus the cruise control not working, which I fixed.


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

yes i just installed the kit on 1995 GTI OBD1 coil pack motor stage 1 works with no issues.... on the first try also started up and runs like a champ


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

my buddy installs c2 chips and kinetics kits all day long he did i think 4-5 cars this year and all of them run perfect..... so i don't know what to tell you except cant always blame it on the chip you know the chip has worked fine since 05


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

just because you don't have a check engine lights doesn't mean your MAF, or o2 censors are good.... they could be on the way out when you install a new chip that requires the MAF or the o2 censor to work harder you start seeing the issues because now they are old and tired... 


when doing a turbo car:

Coil Pack, Wires, Plugs, o2, and MAF and All VAC lines should be replaced and Air filter should be new.!


----------



## JHBonarius (Feb 21, 2010)

Hi dubbinmk2,

I got your message which was censored later-on. I don't get it: why do you judge me, while you do not know me, nor my setup.
The car is in very good contition. The engine has been completely rebuilt 40.000 km (25000 miles) ago. Lots of sensor inlcuding MAF replaced two-three years ago (with genuine parts). Rebuild tranny, rebuild rear differential. Air filter was new from C2..
Me and the previous invested lots of money into the car.
...And time... no, I don't have a check engine light... but if you really read my first post, you see that we made a VAG-COM log... So we /can/ check DTC's. And we have a wideband lambda, so we can compare compare readings.
Furtyhermore, the tuner has massive experience with the VR6. He saw no abnormal readings from the MAF.

Car was running fine, no issues...
Until I installed the C2 chip... Well it ran... but as you can judge by the graph: sometimes lean=bad, sometimes rich. The software seemed incapable of making up it's mind.
And now that I have another chip it runs fine again.... The expert tuner encountered no issues while writing the custom chip.

Make your own conclusion


Finally: the chip in 05 was a different one from now. And I guess the one now is tuned for the kinetic setup... however, they sell it as if it should work on any setup!
By the way: do you have exhaust emmisions test over there?

Why are you defending C2 so agressively? Are you a share holder?


----------



## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

I have a dead engine sitting on my garage floor from C2's 30# setup. Too lean/ too rich and kiss your rings good bye.


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

I'm not a share holder, and yes car passed emissions 2 months ago with flying color... I'm defending c2 because I have yet to see any issues with their software and i seen plenty of cars run c2


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

what ever I could care less about this argument so if you got a custom tune and your happy it is what it is...



there is no issue with c2 your setup is the issue not the c2 chip....


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

people that have c2 issues are you guys located in USA? or out side of US? maybe NON USA cars are different I don't know


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

if you put together your own turbo kit and than expect c2 software to function properly you are out of your MIND!


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

if you want a reliable no issues type of car buy your self kinetics kit with c2 chip and have fun day and night........


----------



## radoman57 (Jan 16, 2007)

I went through this a couple of years back, went through all the trouble to convert my corrado to obd2 and 
run the 42lb chip on a vrt. It ran so rich it barely ran, using vag com you could see the o2 correction go to
-25% which is the limit and still be at 10 afr. it was never driven beacause it wouldn't even run basically.
all the sensors were new. tried 2 ecu's, different maf's to try to isolate the problem even though all sensors 
were new just to make sure. tried stock chip and stock injectors, ran perfect, no codes and passed 
emissions no problem. That pretty much isolated the chip to me as the problem, had Jeff send a new chip, 
same thing. So I think it boils down to the C2 chip isn't as universal as it is claimed to be, works for most 
users but not all. 
I think you are really lucky to have a tuner that could sort it out, around here there just isn't that option in
the northwest. 
I finally gave up and went to lugtronic and learned to do my own tuning, having a decent base tune at least
got me running. 
My setup is kind of reversed form most setups, I made my own manifolds and the intake for the turbo is 
on the drivers side, I think that may have been why the C2 tune had problems but it's just a guess.
Also, the encrypter board they use serves no purpose for the customer except for the chip to fall off, the ecu
on a corrado is upside down and on one ecu it barely held on by itself.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

dubbinmk2, Are you having a tantrum? Do you need to go sit in time out? Seriuosly bro flooding this thread with sensless posts just makes you look bad. If we all wanted to read bs posts we would go to TCL or the MK3 forum, why don't you go find a stance thread to go nuts in.



> if you put together your own turbo kit and than expect c2 software to function properly you are out of your MIND!


This sums up how much you *actually* know about C2 chips and FI systems on our cars. I thought it was plug and play?



> if you want a reliable no issues type of car buy your self kinetics kit with c2 chip and have fun day and night........


Thats what I have.


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

I'm not arguing and i could care less but don't bash c2 tune and say it doesnt work good when 1 out 100 cars have this problem. Sorry you guys fell into 5 percent that doesn't work


when having a turbo kit that you put together your self your intake could be smaller different in size, your air filter could be a different brand than Kinetics etc, etc....



sucks it didn't work out for you what can i say..... there is always going to be one bad cookie in the cookie JAR the world isnt perfect.....


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

c2 software is plug and play............. just like when you plug in USB drive! 95 percent of the time it will work the other 5 percent is will say hardware failed to install and when you try a different USB port all of the sudden it works.....plug and play does not mean 100 percent compatible with all the vr6 cars in the world! there will always be a car that has issues, but dont come in here and say c2 tune sucks.... just because it sucks for you doesnt mean it sucks for 34321321321 other people that have the chip


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

You need to read more about how MAF based systems work before you make yourself seem stupid. The whole reason people love this chip is for that very fact, it works of the factory ecu and sensors, so it does not matter what turbo, intake or exhaust you run. It should still run good, just won't make as much power if you have a poorly flowing system. Don't just say C2 can do no wrong because everyone else says its gold. Thats called jumping on the bandwagen. GTFO.


----------



## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

dubbinmk2 said:


> people that have c2 issues are you guys located in USA? or out side of US? maybe NON USA cars are different I don't know


The OP said he has a European Spec Golf and had to take it to an expert tuner "in his country", so clearly this gentleman is not American. Read the posts more thoroughly instead of assuming people are just here to attack your precious C2. 
The OP merely came here for advice and produced a picture of some VERY wild lambda oscillations, which is a damn sight more info than most people provide when complaining about C2. Credit where it's due.

Since you mention it, Non-US ECUs are indeed different, we in Europe are several versions of OBD2 behind you.

I was sold a C2 42# tune once, and was told it would work perfectly on my car. It didn't. Boost fuelling never went richer than 13 and the idle was terrible. Curiously enough, part throttle cruising was a spot on 14.7 AFR and I got the usual over lean tip in problem.

Now, I had a V03 revision ECU and the chip I was given was for a V02 revision. Makes no difference they told me. Well actually it does.

Like the OP, a custom remap miraculously solved all the issues.

To be honest, people's first reaction to blame the car is getting a tad boring now. Give people some credit. We've built up turbo motors to a good standard and I think the majority of us know our way round the engine bay and can think beyond the usual "Replace your 02 probe" comments. MAFs and 02 work or they don't. Simple as that. They don't just decide to kind of half work one day.

The software is at fault here, no ifs, buts or maybes.


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

what ever...... if it doesn't work for you than it doesn't work.... who gives a crap mine works and plenty of other cars do so sucks for you


----------



## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

Well, some of us do give a crap to try and help others. Aren't we all in this for the same reason? 

Anyway, I have nothing against C2. They're doing some good things for the VW community and you guys in Americanland are lucky the software works out of the box. There's no reason to get defensive if the code doesn't work for some people


----------



## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Wow, this thread is a bit misleading but here's some input...

Stock ECU and generic chip should NEVER perform even comparable to standalone/custom tune. Are we even seriously making this comparisson?

Generic chip is way more cost effective than a custom tune even if lacking in performance (hp & drivability). You get what you pay for and the two methods of tuning are for different applications.

Custom tunes will hide, work around any sensor/mechanical anomalies that a generic chip will highlight.

Several people have had success with C2 chips while others have been disappointed, without doing an actual poll I don't think we can pass judgement on if their product is "bad" or not because some people have been unfortunate enough to have problems. I think we would need objective data so we could see a pass/fail rate.

I've had numerous C2 chips... Mk3, Mk4, OBD1, OBD2, 30-60lb and have had reasonable results. That being said, that does not mean that troubleshooting was not involved in some cases. As stated elsewhere in the thread just because a given setup (sensor/mechanical) worked in a STOCK configuration, it is of course not reflective of a boosted configuration. Your car is now demanding much more of sensors etc with bigger injectors, redefined piping and whatever misc junk you've added with your turbo build.

The 30lb software was one of the ealier products and there have been significant improvements in later tunes, eg OBD2 630 and even the OBD1 36lb.

Statistically if you have a car in reasonable mechanical shape, you do not have access to a personal tuner, you are on a budget... then the C2 chip makes sense. If you do not fit into the aforementioned category get a custom tune.

Disclaimer - I am in the US.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

> what ever...... if it doesn't work for you than it doesn't work.... who gives a crap mine works and plenty of other cars do so sucks for you


I think this sums up your personallity pretty well.


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> Wow, this thread is a bit misleading but here's some input...
> 
> Stock ECU and generic chip should NEVER perform even comparable to standalone/custom tune. Are we even seriously making this comparisson?
> 
> ...




thats what I met to say except he said it better :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

GinsterMan98 said:


> I think this sums up your personallity pretty well.


 *V-dubbulyuh* explained to you all ready I'm just tired of explaining my self!!! he explained better than I could ..... sorry but English is my second language just tired of explaining my self to you


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

*JHBonarius says my MAF has been repalced 2-3 years ago? ok doesnt mean it works good today 
*


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

DeckManDubs said:


> I have a dead engine sitting on my garage floor from C2's 30# setup. Too lean/ too rich and kiss your rings good bye.



not a c2 problem


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

Your an ass you know that? Your so high of C2 that its apparently imposible that there could be something wrong with the software.
Look how childlike you are reacting to someone who posts his problem with the software. It is stated that the problem lies with the software, his new tune is based on working with the exact same sensors and it runs fine now. 

It's absolute bullsh*t that it's imposible to post or state that you have a problem with your c2 software here on vortex. 
I've seen it numerous times: some guy posts that he has trouble with his c2 software > he gets bashed that it's his own fault > the topic quickly dissapears > no more bad talk for c2

Don't get me wrong i'm running the 42# tune, and untill now im loving it, but i'm scared sh*tless if i'm going to pas the emissions test next month.
just keep the topic realistic.


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

if your car runs good with c2 and you have no issues you will pass emissions with out a problem


----------



## JHBonarius (Feb 21, 2010)

dubbinmk2 said:


> thats what I met to say except he said it better :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


I think thats your whole problem.
...I mean you added 19 posts to this thread, thereby contributing almost 50% of the total post count...
And V-dubbulyuh can say /more/ in only one post...
(you seem to hit "post reply" instead of "enter"... explains 7000+ posts.. )

Seriously: if you want people to take you seriously, you should start underbuilding your arguments. Instead of all the aggressive swearing and cursing...

What have we learned from you so far:
- C2 is good software, because your friend builds cars with it.
- My car is old and my sensors are broken, because C2 chip does not work
- 1 in 100 is 5%
- 5% of 34.3 billion = 1.7 billion people /are/ experiencing problems with C2 motorsport chip. That's still 28% of the world population.
- lean and rich is not a problem caused by C2 software
- the people complaining here are lying, there problems are not caused by the software, and cannot be solved by changing software.
- kinetic kit and C2 chip is the best turbo setup.

Ok...

Well I don't know why I bother but: the MAF was measured by a VR6 specialist and it was o.k.

To the others: look, I'm not comparing a custom tune to C2...
I'm just poinitng out that C2 does not realize it's selling points.
And even that it can cause issues, like not passing exhaust test or leaning out and damaging the engine.


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

pimS said:


> Your an ass you know that? Your so high of C2 that its apparently imposible that there could be something wrong with the software.
> Look how childlike you are reacting to someone who posts his problem with the software. It is stated that the problem lies with the software, his new tune is based on working with the exact same sensors and it runs fine now.
> 
> It's absolute bullsh*t that it's imposible to post or state that you have a problem with your c2 software here on vortex.
> ...




Just to let you know I'm a IT system Administrator/programmer.... how can something be wrong with a tune when it's the same file being burn to every single chip? when thousands of cars are running with out issues all of the sudden c2 decided to screw up the code and you got a bad chip?


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

custom tune and c2 is completely different game my man


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

And this statement is based on? what?

My car runs good without a Cat but it won't pass emissions that way, so stating that a car will pass emissions because it runs good is nonsence


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

if you have all your sensors plugged and you're running a cat and c2 you should have no issues passing emissions


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

if the 30# tune would be what they claim it to be (addapting software that you can use on any vrt as long as your injectors and maff are the size the chip is programmed on), the lambda readings wouldn't be all over the place.

And don't come back at me blattering about the sensors etc. we've allready had that conversation


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

pimS said:


> if the 30# tune would be what they claim it to be (addapting software that you can use on any vrt as long as your injectors and maff are the size the chip is programmed on), the lambda readings wouldn't be all over the place.
> 
> And don't come back at me blattering about the sensors etc. we've allready had that conversation


what ever you think is right correct let be correct... man you also gotta understand your in Europe the c2 software was designed around USA ECU..... did you ever know that?


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

Did you know that there is also a C2.co.uk department?
And that the we when purchasing our software, told c2 that we were based in europe, that our car were from europe, and that we needed software for our euro cars, based on the differences between our euro cars and the us cars, wich offcource was no problem.


* i'm not going to respond to you anymore, at this point it looks like i'm bashing c2, wich i'm not trying to. i'm just trying to state that it should be posible to come forward here and say that you have an problem with the SOFTWARE, without being bashed....*


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

didnt know c2 was based in UK thats something new in the last couple of years


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

how can there be an issue with the software when millions of people have no issues? are u stupid? they made and finalized a code than they just burn it to a chip the actual code doesn't change every time they burn a chip. now you could have gotten a wrong chip with a wrong code burned to it sure.... like if you wanted 36# chip buy got 42# profile burned on it by accident then sure other wise it's not happening...


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Op, I only only wished to try and help you. I am sorry things didn't go well with your C2 chip. I am glad your car runs well, enjoy. To all others that helped by providing honest and factual statements, thank you. I am done with this thread before I lose my cool.


----------



## JHBonarius (Feb 21, 2010)

thank you for you input.

I agree with you.

Is this guy screwing up more topics like this?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

This is why the vortex is a sad place, you can't go against the norm or share your experiences with eachother without this happening. Hondatech isn't even this bad anymore. G/L in the future.


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)




----------



## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

i like frogs. they croak alot around my house. they get into my hottub sneaky lil bastids.

and grilled peanut butter and jelly sammy's.

but not any jelly. like a good raspberry jam or strawberry preserve. 

ya gotta grill the bread as if it were a grilled cheese sammy, one side only, and then add the PB&J.

if you do not do it this way, you will burn your mouthy as the PB gets real hot and slimy if you make it as if it were a grilled cheese sammy.

Jeff no longer is a part of C2, but he was the brains behind the software. he is doing his own thing now.

and it has to be white bread, like Wonder..... its so non nutritious its just plain GOOD!

drinkin n thinkin is fun.

toodles!!!!!!


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

well they have to be doing something right since they are still in business unlike EIP.... remember EIP tune? and car blowing up each week? now that's a bad tune!


----------



## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

dubbinmk2 said:


> well they have to be doing something right since they are still in business unlike EIP.... remember EIP tune? and car blowing up each week? now that's a bad tune!


do i ever.....

eipsucks.com has FINALLY been taken down..... LOL


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

LOL EIP hahahaha


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

GinsterMan98 said:


> This is why the vortex is a sad place, you can't go against the norm or share your experiences with eachother without this happening. Hondatech isn't even this bad anymore. G/L in the future.


The old timers making the big numbers on c2 have no issues. It's always the newer setups that **** up. Blame it on inexperience, or corners cut, whatever. If the system is made correctly, the software will run fine. If not, well, you already know.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I run there chip, I was not saying one thing or the other, only that some have had issues were others have not. This is a known fact, you agree? I will admit that some of my issues were do to my lack of experience or knowledge of how the system should be setup. That being said I feel that the 30# tune has issues with part throotle stumble and O2 corection/ adaptation. I have first hand experience with this. I nun a Kinetics kit, so I should have the most ideal setup based on the info in this thread. Overall I am happy as my car is more powerful then when I got it.:thumbup: I can not speak outside my steup as I have not messed with the 42# setup. It was never my intention to pick a side, I tried to help the OP by giving him my personal experience with what I have learned, no problem there.

What I am mad about is the fact you can't say certian things in here without being flamed or being blamed for your the issues you are having. If there is one thing this place needs to learn is that there is not one catch all solution to a problem, or a set way of doing things. I feel that certian people on here are just insane for just blindly following the norm, staying inside there little box. I have the 42# setup and will be switching shortly, if it does not perform I am going a diffrent route with my tuning, my choice. For my money I demand perfection, thats what they advertise and thats what I deserve as a loyal customer of C2. In my line of work issues that are not voiced cost millions of dollars worth of equipment or even worse death. I will never settle for the norm or the "vortex" answer to things, because of the fear of being shuned from mass opinion. I am not mad at anyone in here, just pointing out some things that bother me. I am sure if I met anyone of you we would go have a beer and talk Vw's.


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

GinsterMan98 said:


> I run there chip, I was not saying one thing or the other, only that some have had issues were others have not. This is a known fact, you agree? I will admit that some of my issues were do to my lack of experience or knowledge of how the system should be setup. That being said I feel that the 30# tune has issues with part throotle stumble and O2 corection/ adaptation. I have first hand experience with this. I nun a Kinetics kit, so I should have the most ideal setup based on the info in this thread. Overall I am happy as my car is more powerful then when I got it.:thumbup: I can not speak outside my steup as I have not messed with the 42# setup. It was never my intention to pick a side, I tried to help the OP by giving him my personal experience with what I have learned, no problem there.
> 
> What I am mad about is the fact you can't say certian things in here without being flamed or being blamed for your the issues you are having. If there is one thing this place needs to learn is that there is not one catch all solution to a problem, or a set way of doing things. I feel that certian people on here are just insane for just blindly following the norm, staying inside there little box. I have the 42# setup and will be switching shortly, if it does not perform I am going a diffrent route with my tuning, my choice. For my money I demand perfection, thats what they advertise and thats what I deserve as a loyal customer of C2. In my line of work issues that are not voiced cost millions of dollars worth of equipment or even worse death. I will never settle for the norm or the "vortex" answer to things, because of the fear of being shuned from mass opinion. I am not mad at anyone in here, just pointing out some things that bother me. I am sure if I met anyone of you we would go have a beer and talk Vw's.



you want a cookie?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Actually I do, atleast I built my car the way I wanted to. Lets take a guess what you drive....
A2 Golf VR6, check... 
wire tuck, check...
Shaved bay, check...
Create 5 post to say three sentences, check...
Say anything meaningful, no check.
How long have you been in the FI game, because I bet not that long by your brilliant and helpful posts.
Did you pay for your work? I bet you didn't.
You know I have never did anything to you, I just was trying to help the OP, what were you doing in here? Oh, thats right, just adding more numbers to your post count to fuel your ego.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

reality

95% of the software problems that are posted on here, are actually hardware problems.

the problem in this case probably wasnt the tune, it is the fact that it was a US tune on a EU ECU (they pin out differently).

i bet if you took this 'bad' tune and put it in a North American car it would work perfectly.

:beer:


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

You know, that may be so. I am sorry if anyone got there internet feelings hurt by me trying to help, even you To dubbinmk2. Even though I don't approve of your input on this thread. I just want to get back to my family and away from this place.


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Swapped my Corrado to OBD2 out of a 96' Passat VR6 5speed. I've been running C2's 42# OBD2 12V Vr software, 9:1 spacer, dsr 256 cams, and Walbro 255lph in line pump for over a year now.

The car runs flawless from 10-20psi. This is the most tested tune which is why I decided to go with it. Sorry, but anyone having issues with this SPECIFIC software, and I would bet it's an issue w/ a sensor or the car. Too many cars have run great on it.

That being said the folllowing parts are new on my car:
-MAF
-Both O2 sensors
-Throttle Body
-All 3 ECT sensors
-Coilpack is lightly used


----------



## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

dubbinmk2 said:


> yes car passed emissions 2 months ago with flying color...


when your car was NA... :beer:


----------



## scarboroughdub (Jul 8, 2002)

The problem is Jeff doesn't understand the software 100percent therefore the tunes are not as good as they can be. Sensors can be easily checked through vag com.

To be totally ohnest there is a handfull of Bosch tuners in the world and only a limited few in north America.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

LOL

I understand the software better than you think.

The 30# tune was done ~7-8 years ago BEFORE I started C2.
Now that I have sold out my ownership of C2, I doubt it will ever be improved.

-Jeffrey Atwood


----------



## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

scarboroughdub said:


> The problem is Jeff doesn't understand the software 100percent therefore the tunes are not as good as they can be.





Jefnes3 said:


> LOL
> 
> I understand the software better than you think.
> 
> ...


straight from the SOURCE..... been wondering when Jeff was gonna pop on in LOL.


----------



## JHBonarius (Feb 21, 2010)

opcorn:


----------



## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

JHBonarius said:


> 7-8 years before C2 started???


he said 7-8 years *ago* BEFORE he started C2. he *DID NOT SAY* 7-8 years BEFORE he started C2.

you forgot the one key word in the sentence, the little word "AGO".....

7-8 years AGO before he started C2.
7-8 years before he started C2.

see how different that statement looks with the omission of that one little word?


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Richard_Cranium said:


> he said 7-8 years *ago* BEFORE he started C2. he *DID NOT SAY* 7-8 years BEFORE he started C2.
> 
> you forgot the one key word in the sentence, the little word "AGO".....
> 
> ...


Way to call someone out on their attempt, intentional or not, to spread BS.:beer:

C2/ Jeff Atwoods tunes have plenty of fans so no need to defend them.

Their hate club was always one of the most irrational though. If you have the time, $$, and desire to go standalone or tune your own chip then have a ball. For others there is a $300 chip they can pop in and make 300-600whp, run 10's, 11's, w/ the vast majority of the cars running very well. What's the problem?

The jealousy that is caused by someone doing the same thing with a chip tune vs. a more elaborate setup is a terrible thing:laugh:


----------



## JHBonarius (Feb 21, 2010)

opcorn:


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

JHBonarius said:


> well, before C2 started anyways...
> 
> just curious... heard the rumor... and if the software is older then C2... maybe this is the time the myth gets busted...


What myth?

I know people who were test cars for a couple of Jeff's tunes.

To repeat a rumor is as bad as starting one. Go read a tabloid.:thumbdown:


----------



## JHBonarius (Feb 21, 2010)

opcorn:


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

JHBonarius said:


> yes, ok, jeff's tunes are ok...
> 
> ...but Jeff just said that the #30 tune is from /before/ he started C2...


Make software > start company> sell it


----------



## JHBonarius (Feb 21, 2010)

forget it, it's nothing to do with the original subject...

anyhow. I'm going to mail chris again


----------



## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

ha!


----------



## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

pimS said:


> Make software > start company> sell it


JHBonarius must be dyslexic. He see's
Sell it>Make software>Start company 
:laugh:

Jeff has been a key element of this forum for many yrs. People like him are the reason we're getting these big HP "chipped" beasts. If you were here longer then some of us ( member since 00'. Previous usernames were TurboXpert, BottlfedG60, GolfG60Guru...) then you'll know that the options were limited
before C2. Big HP chips were unheard of. Even when ATP started out, they had nothing reliable for the big HP guys. Say what you want...Pioneer status. Lugnuts...Pioneer status..BillyT, Killa....list goes on. Point is, if you're trying to start a revolution, you picked the wrong guy/company.


----------



## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

I think this thread needs to be less about blanket statements and more about figuring out the OPs problem.

Jeff writes great tunes. He's a great tuner. That being said, I had 36# on my obd1 and it ran like crap. I changed out every sensor and got 4 different chips from Chris. Everything was the same. I ditched the chip, went with MS, and my car ran like a top.

Jeff himself just admitted that the 30# was written before his time. I wonder how much of an influence he had over the 36# stuff too. I would also imagine that it was more tailored to obd2 cars than obd1 and just wouldn't adapt properly to obd1.

I haven't really heard of a single person running the 42# software that is having problems with it. I imagine that was Jeff's baby and he poured all of his efforts into it. That's why we see such great results from it.

OP, good luck trying to get your problem solved, but if your car is running well now, I would just call it even. At BEST, Chris will offer you a different chip (perhaps 42#), but he's not going to give you a refund. If he does give you another chip, well you'll be happier in the long run, but it will cost you a bit more to get there (converting to obd2, etc.)

good luck and :beer: to Jeff and all the hard work and innovation he has done for our community.


----------



## magner (Jul 26, 2009)

Jefnes3 said:


> LOL
> 
> I understand the software better than you think.
> 
> ...


was this tune based on the eip turbo chip but with maf trick that (collier aka chris from c2 ) tested here about 8 years ago? 


http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...-on-stock-ECU-Part-2&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

TBT-Syncro said:


> reality
> 
> 95% of the software problems that are posted on here, are actually hardware problems.
> 
> ...


Amen.

1) Many of these cars are 12-18 years old that have been hacked/swapped/not maintained/ you name it.
Add FI and you are trying to double or triple it's power. Original MAF, original fuel pump, original O2's, cracked coilpack, original ECT etc. Add to that the person installing the kit shouldn't be working on cars and all that = It's the chips fault.

I'm not saying that there aren't some weird ECU compatability issues in rare cases, but come on.

How many people have to prove the tune is spot on. How many cars are running flawless w/ the MK3 42# 12v tune? They're everywhere.

2) Standalone cars blow up too. 

Blow up a motor on a 30# dizzy tune? How? It runs 11:1 A/F. I drag raced that setup for 2 years on maxed injectors w/ no issues. 

How's the chip run fine and then suddenly make the car blow up? Do the parameters change?:laugh:


----------



## The Yoda (Nov 28, 2005)

magner said:


> http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...-on-stock-ECU-Part-2&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk


Anybody else notice the secret message in this thread?:laugh:


----------



## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

Jeff-

Summer is over and the streets are still empty....

please hurry....:thumbup:


----------



## JHBonarius (Feb 21, 2010)

magner said:


> was this tune based on the eip turbo chip but with maf trick that (collier aka chris from c2 ) tested here about 8 years ago?
> 
> 
> http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...-on-stock-ECU-Part-2&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk


@slcturbo: See now where the rumour comes from? This seems like evidence.

Great that the topic still exists... but Jeff has deleted all his replies, and we have to rely on google cache..
Why would he have done that? It seems vital information.


----------



## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

TBT-Syncro said:


> reality
> 
> 95% of the software problems that are posted on here, are actually hardware problems.


Not true.

I don't know what reality you suscribe to, but it's clearly one only seen in America/Canada.



TBT-Syncro said:


> the problem in this case probably wasnt the tune, it is the fact that it was a US tune on a EU ECU (they pin out differently).
> 
> i bet if you took this 'bad' tune and put it in a North American car it would work perfectly.


True.

A lesson learned by GIAC with their "UK Optimised" VF Stage 2 chips.

Out of interest, how many people in this thread actually know how to map an engine?

How many people have experience of C2 Motronic versus dyno mapped Motronic versus Standalone? And I mean years of experience, not just a quick drive down the street.

The majority of the C2 fanboys don't know any different. They pop a chip in because it's easy and everyone else does it, but they have no clue about other systems and just assume they can't possibly be any better.


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

kevhayward said:


> Not true.
> 
> I don't know what reality you suscribe to, but it's clearly one only seen in America/Canada.
> 
> ...


Your tone points to a an issue w/ people that like C2. Ask yourself why. I already know the answer

It's absolutely true. See the following list and pick one. They are the cause of the vast majority of issues w/ chip tuned cars. I can't speak for every tune but 30# dizzy VR and MK3 42# VR are very very nice.

1) Wrong spark plug/gap
2) Wrong fpr
3) Faulty install
4) Boost/Vacuum leak
5) Cracked coilpack
6) Bad MAF
7) Bad O2 sensor
8) Bad ECT
9) Faulty wiring (swap cars)
10) The car/engine is a POS that needed rebuilt in the first place.

"Better" is a relative term. If a $300 chip can make 400whp and run flawless is a $1500 standalone system better assuming the owner doesn't want over 400whp?

You spent alot of $$ on your setup and I'm sure it's real nice. Be comfortable with your choice and stop hating on those that went a more economical route.:beer:


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I promised myself I would stay away, but I have to give credit where credit is deserved. Great post, you are right. Apples and oranges I guess, I think I am going a diffrent route this time around.



> Anybody else notice the secret message in this thread?


Yes


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

Vital Info deleted.. coz he wants to protect his ideas/findings.

CCollier was doing the HW side. Jeff was doing all the tuning. End of story


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Oh, well I found what was there before. I just thought the message was funny, your not mad are you?
I wasn't trying to get at anything other than the hidden message:laugh:


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Oh, well I found what was there before. I just thought the message was funny, your not mad are you?
> I wasn't trying to get at anything other than the hidden message:laugh:


haha I lol'd

collier....is...thief...and...liar...x

Having fun jeff?


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

pimS said:


> collier....is...thief...and...liar...x


Not sure about that, but he did run his mouth to me over the phone once. If I'm ever at a show and I see a C2 booth it will get addressed in person.


----------



## rod_bender (Apr 14, 2007)

kevhayward said:


> Out of interest, how many people in this thread actually know how to map an engine?


One and it ISNT you.


----------



## nfx (Jul 18, 2004)

This thread made me laugh.


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Map an engine in a chip tuned thread:laugh:

Who the fk cares if you're running a chip. That's what you buy a chip for.

I'm sure it's brain surgery man. Splitting the atom type of stuff.

How many people can produce financial statements for large corporations or handle consolidations of huge companies w/ many subsidiaries? Find your expertise and pay someone else to use their expertise.


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

"My setup must be better b/c I spent 4x the money and have all the cool parts"

Beware of these guys. They'll never stop trying to convince themselves that the extra $5-$10k they spent on a build was not in vain and their car is somehow "special"


----------



## benzivr6 (Feb 16, 2001)

opcorn:


----------



## pvw4ever (Nov 19, 2001)

opcorn:

42# TUNE RUNNING JUST FINE FOR ME 
PASSED NJ STATE EMMSIONS WITH FLYING COLORS  2 MONTHS AGO!

C2 worked great for me!


----------



## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

@ StupidLittleC0ckturbo - The purpose of me asking who has mapping experience and indepth knowledge of different setups was to seperate the opinionated bolt-on heros such as yourself, from the _decent_ people with real skills.

Unfortunately these people rarely come out to play because they are over powered by the stench of BS that comes out of the mouthes of people like you. It's a sad fact that the people who know the most and achieve the most, say the least on places like this.

Nowhere did I mention "Hating" C2 or the people who like C2. You just concoted that notion in your own warped little mind.

I said further back, "Aren't we all in this for the same reason?", "C2 have done some good things for the VW Community", but I guess during your desperation to come back at me with a killer blow, you over looked those comments.

You just read what you want to read and twist everything else around to fit your own argument. Your head is well and truly up your own and C2's arses. If you want to be their little lap dog and closed minded, knock yourself out.


----------



## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

rod_bender said:


> One and it ISNT you.


Sure of that are you?


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

Checked mine yesterday.
almost passed emissions without a cat.

Running 42# tune on a euro vrt


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

> Running 42# tune


No offense bro, but maybe you should read the first post. This is not a 42# thread, so what you just said has no relavence to this topic.:thumbup: Have a nice day OBD2 30# is the topic here.


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

kevhayward said:


> Sure of that are you?


1) You're a hater bro of all things that cost less than what you spent, but get the job done just as well. C2 users, stock manifold, you name it. It's always the same bias. Get over it.

2) I don't tune cars because I haven't needed to and I'm busy doing everything else. Somehow I think I could handle it. ASE master tech, Volvo master tech, rebuilt my engine, trans, obd2 swap, etc. etc. When that's all done I actually race it and post timeslips:thumbup:

See I built a bolt-on car b/c I'm busy sitting in 4hr. night classes getting a 3.5 GPA while earning my 2nd degree after working on cars for 10 hrs a day.

I could never learn to tune a car:laugh:

Congratulations. You spent $10,000 to make 350whp while I spent $3k to make 400whp. Nice job


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Someone made a great product that you are happy with and that makes you a lap dog or kiss arse?

Part out your kit and build 4 C2 cars with the $$. Maybe then you wont be so angry.:laugh:

Look in the mirror and ask why it irritates you that some are very happy w/ their chip tuned cars. I think you know.


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

GinsterMan98 said:


> No offense bro, but maybe you should read the first post. This is not a 42# thread, so what you just said has no relavence to this topic.:thumbup: Have a nice day OBD2 30# is the topic here.


dude...
I know the OP personally and we have had a lot of talk about both the 30 and 42 tune lately, because we both run an euro vrt. he had bad results @ emissions, with made me **** my pants because i didn't know if i would make it.

For you guys it's easy talk, allot of US people are running C2 software, so for you it's easy to ask somone else for his experiences.
As far as i know JH is the only one running the 30# on a euro vr6 here in the netherlands, and i don't know anyone except myself running the 42#.

We were the only onces who had the guts to take another route, everybody over here go's to the same tuner, everybody runs the same amount of boost, gets the same results, no one has the balls to go over 17 psi without a full engine build etc etc..
Wich i think is f-ing boring, thats why i went with c2, but as we know it backfired for JH
See my point?


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

GinsterMan98 said:


> No offense bro, but maybe you should read the first post. This is not a 42# thread, so what you just said has no relavence to this topic.:thumbup: Have a nice day OBD2 30# is the topic here.


That's the OP's fault and a common one. Put it in the thread title. "C2 software" is thrown around like they make one file. What do they make 30?

30# isn't even specific enough. What 30#? Dizzy? Coilpack? MK3? MK4?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Cool down bro, didn't you see the smiley? I was just keeping it on track. Oh and it's not that easy to get support over here either. I just going to go ahead and say it, the C2 30# OBD2 tune sucks dookie. The 42# tune is very good for its cost, as I have been in a few car with that tune.

I have learned so much in the past year it's crasy. I have learned that I will never buy a chip tune again. I will now tune my own car from now on. The Vortex is full of bandwagens and clicks, not saying that about anyone here as I respect all of you. I am just tired of being told its my fault, because it's not.
With vagcom, I came to the same conclution as the OP. The O2 correction on this chip just doesn't work well or at all.


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Cool down bro, didn't you see the smiley? I was just keeping it on track. Oh and it's not that easy to get support over here either. I just going to go ahead and say it, the C2 30# OBD2 tune sucks dookie. The 42# tune is very good for its cost, as I have been in a few tuned with it.


Guess i have to agree with you.
I haven't had any troubles with my 42# software on my EURO vrt.
Runs like a dream, and gets through emissions.


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Cool down bro, didn't you see the smiley? I was just keeping it on track. Oh and it's not that easy to get support over here either. I just going to go ahead and say it, the C2 30# OBD2 tune sucks dookie. The 42# tune is very good for its cost, as I have been in a few tuned with it.


Oh not excited at all ma man.:beer:

Never ran 30# obd2, but if that's your experience then you should voice it.

(3) C2 obd2 42# cars at Pinks all out Maple Grove in May including mine. All (3) ran 11.2-11.9's all weekend w/ not one having an issue.

If you're having an issue w/ the 30# obd2 VR then go 42#.


----------



## pvw4ever (Nov 19, 2001)

slcturbo said:


> That's the OP's fault and a common one. Put it in the thread title. "C2 software" is thrown around like they make one file. What do they make 30?
> 
> 30# isn't even specific enough. What 30#? Dizzy? Coilpack? MK3? MK4?


opcorn:


----------



## Cuyler12VGLXVR6T (Jun 13, 2006)

62lb file has been working great since it came out, before I had the 42. no problems. Hell i even had the old EIP stuff and rarely had issues. maybe im just lucky


----------



## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Cuyler12VGLXVR6T said:


> 62lb file has been working great since it came out, maybe im just lucky


No not luck, I run their 60lb file presently on two cars and they are solid (on the Mk3 it was no less stable/drivable than the 42).


----------



## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

slcturbo said:


> Congratulations. You spent $10,000 to make 350whp while I spent $3k to make 400whp. Nice job


Hmmmm, what ever chap. I built for 800whp, but run 350whp. There is a difference.

If you want to see what I'm capable of - http://the-corrado.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=97435

You are completely insignificant against the likes of the people who I REALLY want to associate with on this forum. You are a glory hunter of the pre-made variety. I do research into what is the best and not part of the defacto standards. Have you heard of Denso 279500 - 1220 injectors custom tuned by Injector Dynamics? No, I'll wager $1000 you haven't. Of what relevance is that to you and your bolt on heroism? You'll never know :laugh:


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

I take the shortest and most economical route to my goal like any rational human being would if they have a life outside of toying with cars.

I'll look for videos of you using that 800whp legally on the street or a 7-8 sec. timeslip. Otherwise you built it to show off on the internet. Once again, nice job.:laugh:

Build a car to make power you can't use=ego stroke/compensating for a deficiency. Short, bald, fat, small ****, no life. Take your pic.

Custom tuned injectors-Woooooo:sly:

Have you heard of Siemens 630cc injectors? You put those in along w/ a pro maf and C2 chip and make double the power you'll ever use. Easy. More time racing, hanging out w/ loved ones, concerts, parties, sporting events and less time obsessing over some stupid injector. Priorities FTW!


----------



## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

I'm not picking sides in this little pissing contest you guys have obviously been involved in for some time now, but...



slcturbo said:


> I take the shortest and most economical route to my goal like any rational human being would


:beer: to you for that. I would rather make 350whp on an eBay turbo and manifold than 350whp from having spent 5x on a "name brand" alternative...


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

obdONE said:


> I'm not picking sides in this little pissing contest you guys have obviously been involved in for some time now, but...
> 
> 
> 
> :beer: to you for that. I would rather make 350whp on an eBay turbo and manifold than 350whp from having spent 5x on a "name brand" alternative...


Thank you sir. It's not my intention to start or finish a "pissing" contest.

However, if you're gonna take "shots" at my build for being made up of bolt on or stock parts then show me what you're doing with yours that made it worthy of at least 3x the price. What's it doing for you? Internet fan club build?

It's all bolt on that's why everyone runs 11.8's on 30# chip tunes or soon to be low 11's on 42# setups.

What was I bolting on when I spent at least 30 hrs porting/polishing the head or any of the other parts that were ported, polished, and gasket matched:laugh:


----------



## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

Wow. This is a total crap storm. 
I have a 96 golf that I swapped a vr into. 
I run the c2 1.41 30# obd2 tune. It runs very well 
I daily drive the car and have for over 2 years (25-30k miles) 
I pass emissions here in Arizona no problem. 
The only small issue I have is that it runs a bit rich at WOT. 
It is my 3rd c2 chip. Both before ran great too. I just wanted the newest stuff. 
My car made 262 who and 274wtq a few years ago on the older tune on a mustang dunk in all wheel mode. Not too bad for a chip tune.


----------



## Fast VW (Sep 24, 2002)

GinsterMan98 said:


> I just going to go ahead and say it, the C2 30# OBD2 tune sucks dookie. The 42# tune is very good for its cost, as I have been in a few car with that tune.


 Hopefully someone can answer a very simple question for me. How is the 30# OBD2 tune for the ABA engine. Good or not?


----------



## magicdave (Sep 27, 2008)

kevhayward said:


> Hmmmm, what ever chap. I built for 800whp, but run 350whp. There is a difference.


 Not with a GT35R you didn't. Your turbo is too small. GT35R will do you about... 600hp, give or take.


----------



## magicdave (Sep 27, 2008)

kevhayward said:


> Hmmmm, what ever chap. I built for 800whp, but run 350whp. There is a difference.


 
Actually, I looked at your list a little closer. 800whp also isn't happening because: 



kevhayward said:


> Techtonics Tuning 2.5" Exhaust
> Denso 1220 500cc injectors


 Also, given you like your brand names, there's no mention of any forged rods - stock ones bend at 500lbft. 


And the crowing one: 



kevhayward said:


> DTA S80 ECU installed and mapped by myself


 *shrug*


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

magicdave said:


> Also, given you like your brand names, there's no mention of any forged rods - stock ones bend at 500lbft.


 ahhh no they dont.


----------



## magicdave (Sep 27, 2008)

TBT-Syncro said:


> ahhh no they dont.


 Okay, let me qualify that a bit: 

They bend when the local dyno says 500lbft.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

magicdave said:


> Okay, let me qualify that a bit:
> 
> They bend when the local dyno says 500lbft.


 

we must have different rods 'round here.


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Or different dynos:thumbup:


----------



## Fast VW (Sep 24, 2002)

Fast VW said:


> Hopefully someone can answer a very simple question for me. How is the 30# OBD2 tune for the ABA engine. Good or not?


 I know this thread is in reference to the VR6 tune but anyone know?


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

^^drop in and go. works great


----------

