# Troubleshooting Tire Pressure Monitoring System faults



## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Tire Pressure Monitoring System fault*

Yesterday I noticed a new message upon startup stating there is a fault with tire pressure monitoring system. The message still appears after several operation (startup) cycles.
This exact message is not in the handbook, but it sounds like a sensor has gone out. 
Tire pressures are OK. 
Any ideas?
I have thought about reprogramming the tire pressures to see if that is the problem, but I'm waiting for the tires to get cold before doing that.
Jack


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Tire Pressure Monitoring System fault (Jack Orr)*

Jack...Just go to the "VEHICLE" soft button tomorrow morning, set new pressures and head out to the highway...10 minutes or so and the tire icon should disappear.
I have found that in town, starting and stopping, is not the most effective way to reset this fault.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Tire Pressure Monitoring System fault (Jack Orr)*

You say the exact message is not in the manual. What was the message?


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: Tire Pressure Monitoring System fault (dcowan699)*

The exact message was what I said in the header: "Tire Pressure Monitoring System Fault".
Jack


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Tire Pressure Monitoring System fault (Jack Orr)*

It wasn't in quotation marks so I thought you were stating a general idea of the problem instead of an exact message. Mine did this once when we had an extreme temperature change (for the warmer). Later that day as I reached interstate speeds of more than 5 miles to get the tires warmed up, the problem went away and never reoccurred.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Tire Pressure Monitoring System fault (dcowan699)*

Hello Jack:
I've had the same experience as David - when there has been a really significant temperature change (meaning, more than a 50°F / 25°C change from normal ambient temperature), the tire pressure monitoring system has displayed that exact fault code. This has only happened to me twice, once as a result of driving the car up to far Northern Canada (and the accompanying temperature drop), the other as a result of driving it back down south, then encountering unseasonably warm weather.
All I would add to Peter's advice above ('reset it') is that you might want to double-check that the pressures are correct first. Note that you can only reset the TPMS settings when the tires are cold, in practice this means you have to leave the vehicle parked overnight, then reset the pressures from the infotainment screen before you start driving the next morning.
Michael


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## ThwartedEfforts (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Tire Pressure Monitoring System fault (PanEuropean)*

I also have just received the error message, _Tyre Pressure Monitoring System Fault_. I've tried turning off the system in the menus, then turning it back on again, going for a longer drive, various combinations of the above (and so on and so forth), but to no avail.
Any idea what I could do to reset it?


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: Tire Pressure Monitoring System fault (ThwartedEfforts)*

Follow Michael's advice above. I later on noticed a mention in the manual to the effect that in colder weather the system may need a reset. I think that is exactly the cause of my warning. I simply reaired the tires when cold, and told the system to reset. After driving out to dinner and back, about 8 miles, everything was relearned and back to normal, except I noticed the pressures computed were one or two pounds off what I had aired up.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Tire Pressure Monitoring System fault (ThwartedEfforts)*

Hi Philip:
The 'trick' to resetting the TPMS system is that you have to initiate the reset (from the infotainment screen) when the tires are cold. In practice, this means after the car has been sitting unused overnight.
So, just put a sticky note on your keys to remind you to do it the next day. Once you initiate the reset, the 'alert' icon for the TPMS will persist in the screen between the speedometer and tachometer for about 10 minutes or 10 miles of driving, while the system gathers data. It will then disappear.
It's probably a good idea to double-check the cold tire pressures with a gauge before you initiate the reset process. The recommended tire pressures are normally found on a sticker located on the inside of the gas cap flap. Below is a picture of the sticker for a European W12. The North American Phaetons have much higher recommended tire pressures, this to ensure better ground clearance over the poor quality roads we have in North America. I have my W12 Phaeton (in Canada) set to the European tire pressures shown in the sticker below, this gives me a quieter and more comfortable ride. The roads are pretty good where I live - nowhere close to the standards of CH, D, or A, but better than, for example, what you find in some of the impoverished and/or mismanaged regions of the USA or Africa.
Michael
*Recommended Tire Pressures for the European W12's*


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## ThwartedEfforts (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Tire Pressure Monitoring System fault (PanEuropean)*

Thanks guys, I followed your last instructions to the letter and the mysterious "fault" on the info screen has cleared http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ThwartedEfforts (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: (Paldi)*









The mistake I was making was that I was turning the system on and off rather than resetting the data. Hope this helps someone in the future! Seems to be quite a common problem, even in places like the UK where the temperature doesn't vary that wildly.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (ThwartedEfforts)*

Just a postscript here, to avoid confusion later: Philip's European specification Phaeton allows the owner to turn the TPMS system on and off (to allow it to be turned off in the winter, when snow tires are fitted), Phaetons imported by VW of North America do not have this on-off control for the TPMS.
Michael
*European Phaeton - TPMS on/off control*


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre*

Started the car after breakfast and a prompt came on and said Defective wheel. Oh my I thought that perhaps something happened earlier in the day at the car wash. But thats another issue as I think the rims are getting rub damage on the Auto line there. 
But the defective wheel sign came on and I walked around the car and could see nothing wrong. It did not tell me which wheel position. So I took off and got on the Highway. after about 5 mins of 60 mph speed the Flat Tyre symbol came on and the Nav screen showed it being the right front tire. Pulled over and checked it and it was not flat. went about a mile to a filling station and used an air gauge on it and it 
37lbs. both fronts had 37lbs and the rears about 45lbs. Since I couldn't find out the problem I called the Phaeton Hotline thru onstar. What a waste of time as onstar told me the VW folks for Phaeton do not work weekends. Call them Monday. Ok... I can handle that. 
Anybody have any ideas as to what is going on with the wheel sensor and the tire. I will also post this by its self. 
Thanks....

_Modified by Kcmover at 8:44 PM 10-9-2005_


_Modified by Kcmover at 8:46 PM 10-9-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (Kcmover)*

Hmmm. That's an odd trouble report.
I encountered exactly the same sequence of events earlier this week - first a 'defective wheel' message (no explanation on the big infotainment screen explaining what wheel was defective), then, the following day, a 'flat tire' message. But, in my case, I found that I did have a tire that was losing air - it was about 7 pounds below the desired pressure, which was enough to trigger the 'flat tire' message, even though I could not tell by eyeball that there was a problem with the tire.
I removed the tire, tested it with soapy water, and sure enough, there was a nail in it, with little air bubbles coming out around the nail.
My guess is that you probably have a tire that has developed a leak. If either of the two messages appear in the future, check the tire pressures with a gauge before you add any air, and see if one tire has a lower pressure than the other one on the same axle. It might help you in the troubleshooting process if you check the 4 tire pressures with a gauge first thing in the morning, when the tires are stone cold, and see if they are all at the desired pressure level. If they are not, make a short trip (one mile or less) to a service station, inflate them all to the desired cold pressure, then put the TPMS through the learning process again. By doing this, you will know "for sure" that you have a tire problem next time a light comes on. Plus, you will know what your reference pressures are, based on what pressure you set the tires to (with the gauge) when they were cold.
Be aware that the pressures displayed on the big infotainment screen at the end of the learning process may vary by up to 3 PSI from the pressure that you set using a calibrated tire gauge. This means that if you are checking a tire to see if it has lost any air pressure, you need to compare 'gauge readings to gauge readings', not 'gauge readings to TPMS display pressures on the infotainment screen'.
Here's a few threads that might provide you with a bit more background information:
Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) - Design and Function - how it all works.
Tire Pressure System : Duration Of The Reset Process - a recent question from another forum member
How to change a flat tire on a Phaeton - just in case the TPMS is telling you the truth








and, our all important KC GTG thread...
Kansas City Phaeton owners
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (PanEuropean)*

An afterthought: Did you look at the TPMS detail screen (by pressing the VEHICLE button) when you got the 'Flat Tire' warning? The TPMS does not always identify the problem tire when you get a 'defective wheel' message, but it will always identify the defective tire if you see a 'Flat Tire' warning.
It is possible that the problem might have been with your spare tire, if the pressures on the four mounted tires were all OK.
Michael
*This message here...*








*...Will always be explained in more detail by this diagram here*


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (PanEuropean)*

never thought to check the mounted spare. Good idea. The Defective wheel indicator is still on this morning and I am waiting for the dealer to call me back. Perhaps at lunch time I will drive over there and let them inspect the vehicle. When the Flat tire indicator came on yesterday it did show the right front position. That is off now. But the defective wheel does not show any position. 
Thanks for the assistance.
Larry


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## BPVWPv8 (Dec 2, 2004)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (Kcmover)*

larry:
i had exactly the same messages. I also checked all 4 wheels and found that while my pressures were low, nothing was visibly wrong. i even proceeded to make a 1.5 hr drive home with the message on, assuming the message was in error.
once home i called my servicing dealer. he explained that when a tire loses more than a certain amount of air (like 10lbs) below the setting it will show as a flat tire (tyre), less than that will show an underinflation situation. i did have an indication of which tire from the large center diaplay. when i looked at it again, closely, sure enough, there was a nail in the tire...electronics win again!








btw, i recently had low pressure in the spare and it was highlighted in the display. once inflated up to spec, the waring went off.
good luck!
bob


_Modified by BPVWPv8 at 9:43 AM 10-10-2005_


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (Kcmover)*

I am an expert in this particular message, since I have been thru it quite a bit.
Once, I truly did have a low tire (slow leak) caused by a small nail.
The last time it happened, I waited a day and told the system to relearn, which it did. I had checked all the pressures and they were normal.
The fuzzy logic in this car is fuzzy a lot.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (Kcmover)*

I wonder... if the cause of the problem is seasonal. We are now encountering quite significant drops in outside air temperature, and as temperature drops, so does pressure. The TPMS system does compensate for outside air temperature/pressure drops, but I am guessing that it is possible that the tire cools more rapidly than the rim - and, the TMPS sensor is mounted on the rim, not the tire.
This means that if the tire temperature drops to, say, 45 degrees F because of a nice cool night, but the rim temperature does not drop at the same rate of speed, the system will notice the pressure drop in the tire, but not recognize that it is accompanied by a matching OAT drop - and thus signal either a loss of pressure, or a 'defect' - the defect being that things don't add up as they should.
Long before TPMS came along, I would always re-check tire pressures in the spring and fall - and always noticed that pressures dropped in the fall, and rose in the spring. Perhaps all we need to do to get rid of this problem is to re-check and re-inflate (if needed) the 5 tires one cold morning, put the system into learning mode again, and just re-establish the baseline reference now that the prevailing outside temperature has changed?
Michael


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## BPVWPv8 (Dec 2, 2004)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (Kcmover)*

i had both at different times but the last one was the defective wheel message. i guess that flat tyre shows when there is more than normal loss of air pressure and defective wheel displays when the tire has lost even more air than that. the tire shown on the display was the one with a small nail in it.


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## VPRKLR (Nov 29, 2004)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (Kcmover)*

I have had this problem more than once. I have gotten all tires flat some tires flat. I made a comment to my servicing dealer that maybe the electrical system was built by Lucas! 95% of the problems I have had with my car have been electrical. The new one is the dash lights won't come on with it set on automatic, After 10 minutes or so they come on???
I'll stop!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (VPRKLR)*

Hi Joe:
If you are having multiple electrical problems from different systems, you might want to have a look at this thread - or, perhaps print it out and give it to your dealer: J367 Battery Monitoring Controller Replacement. Implementing the two recommendations contained in that thread (replacement of the battery management controller with a new controller that has a *C* suffix on the part number, and making sure that the car is always supplied with external power *at the left side battery* (not from a connection made under the hood) when it is being serviced seems to have solved the problem for everyone else.
As for the original (isolated) tire pressure problem discussed above, my guess is still that it was caused by a seasonal change of temperature.
Michael


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## bigbugiv (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (Kcmover)*

talk about timing of a thread! I don't drive it everyday, in fact, sometimes it will sit for a week or even 2 before it sees the highway. but just this sunday, i took it out and i got the "flat Tyre" message. the info screen said "ok" to all four tires and i checked around the car and all looked fine. didn't have a gauge. will try again after all this rain goes away and will test the PSI and reset as well as look at the spare. the car wash "rub" is not uncommon. hand wasking (at least on the east coast) might be the only cure.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (bigbugiv)*

Hi John:
Because of the timing of all these inquiries (right around when the temperatures are starting to drop), I am almost certain that the warnings are caused by temperature change - meaning, the change from summer to winter temperatures, nothing to do with the tire temperature per se.
I remember that we had a flurry of inquiries about TMPS warning messages around this time last year also, because it was exactly a year ago this week that I started moderating the forum.
My suggestion (to everyone): Get a good tire gauge, drive (hopefully less than one mile) to the local service station one morning after the car has sat overnight, check all 5 pressures and add air as needed, then put the TMPS into learning mode and go for a 7 to 10 mile drive on the freeway. By doing this, you'll get everything all set up for the winter season, and you won't be bothered by a TPMS warning some day when you are pressed for time and don't want to be running around checking tire pressures.
My favorite tire gauge is shown below. It is made by Snap-On, and sold under the BluePoint brand. It is exactly the same type of gauge that is used in the aircraft industry. What is really nice about it is the little 'pressure release' button on the side. This serves two purposes: *1)* After you check the tire pressure, it locks the needle, so you can remove the gauge and look at it. *2)* It also functions as a pressure bleed valve, so the trick to filling the tire quickly and with precision is this: You deliberately overfill the tire a bit, then press on the bleed valve a few times until the pressure comes down to exactly what you want. A two second press bleeds out about half a pound of pressure.
Michael
*Blue Point Tire Gauge - about $25*


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## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Where might one air pressure guage neophyte purchase such a contraption?
Thanks,
Logan.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (loganflatt)*

Hi Logan:
I asked the Phaeton tech at my VW dealership to buy one for me, from the Snap-On sales rep. It seems that the Snap-On dealers have a set route that they follow - the rep comes to my VW dealership every Friday. The tech bought the gauge when the truck came around, and I picked it up and reimbursed him the following week.
If you don't know the tech, it might be possible to have the parts department purchase the gauge for you, and then you could buy it from them. That would probably be a somewhat more official (formal) way of doing it.
Michael


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (bobschneider)*

I bought the exact same gauge at Brookstone a few years ago, not sure if they still have it.
Rob


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## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (Gobuster)*

You can purchase tools directly from Snap-On... Here is a link to the same gauge that Michael has:
 Snap-On Pressure Gauge which sells for $24.55 USD.
They sell many gauges (about 20)...
Douglas

P.S. This is a great gauge... 


_Modified by copernicus0001 at 10:06 PM 10-14-2005_


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## snw (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (copernicus0001)*

Unbelievable timing….I encountered the same issue on Tuesday. In my case I took the tire/rim off and took to dealer. Dealer rang me today and advised that I have a hairline crack in the rim causing the leak. Strange phenomenon is that this is the second time I’ve had a cracked rim. Regretfully, I’m told that VW won’t warranty. 
p.s….my rims are OEM.


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Didn't Michael have a cracked rim on his W12 too? Perhaps someone needs to mention this trend to PCC...
~PC


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (snw)*

Hi Sean:
I also had a hairline crack in my (W12) wheel rim this past summer. The car had less than 10,000 miles on it at the time of the problem, and there was no possibility whatsoever that the tire / wheel had been subjected to any shock. In fact - the leak appeared after a long freeway drive from Toronto to PA, to visit Fred. All the pictures in the How to change a flat tire on a Phaeton thread (except the top one) were taken this summer, when I was changing this tire that had the crack. Fred (Paldi) took the photos of me sitting on the ground, removing the wheel.
When I got back home, my dealer found the crack. It was very small, and very difficult to spot. VW shipped the entire tire and wheel assembly to Dresden for more thorough analysis - it went out that night, air freight.
I have posted some pictures of the crack found on my wheel at this link: Stress Fracture in 'Challenge' Alloy Wheel. You might want to have your VW dealer discuss this with either the Regional Tech Rep or Phaeton Customer care, *if you are certain that it there was no impact* (pothole, curb stop, etc.) that could have caused the crack. If you think there is any possibility that you hit something, then it is understandable that the warranty would not cover it.
Michael


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## snw (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (PanEuropean)*

M....thx for the advice. In your case did the dealer warranty?


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (Kcmover)*

New to my wheel Saga.... On Thursday I called the dealer again about the Defective light coming on again. The tire was not losing any tire pressure at that point and we agreed to bring the vehicle back in on Monday. Friday Evening I went to Omaha, Reset the tire pressure after checking all four tires. I did have to some air to the right front. First time that happened. Got 100 Miles down the road and the defective wheel light came back on. Checked tire and added some air. It now had lost 10lbs of pressure. Everything ok unitil I got to Omaha. had to add 15lbs. Came out of hotel this morning and the tire was down and took it to a Tire dealer. Got the tire and rim off the car and the wheel has a HAIRLINE CRACK on the inside of the rim. The Rim is ruined







Not sure why this was not caught at the dealer on Tuesday when I was there. But I guess they didn't have it off the car. 
Told the Tire guy to install the new spare that had never been on the ground and I will deal with this when I get back to KC. Tire guy could not tell if the damage was from the air being low in the tire or if the rim was defective or if it had damage from driving. I never hit a curb that I know of at any time. 
Anybody have any advice to me other then buy a new rim. Its the 18" OEM rim. Has anybody ever had a cracked rim covered by VW.
The car has 21,000 miles so I guess to be smart I will replace the other front tire to match back in KC. Not sure if the other tire is safe to put back on to keep tire balanced and even wear. 
I also noticed that now that the defective Wheel is on the trunk. The sensors are really going crazy and show ALL FOUR TYRES ARE FLAT







I tried to reset a couple of times and it keeps coming back to this message. 
Thats my story today.


_Modified by Kcmover at 9:22 AM 10-15-2005_


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (Kcmover)*

Michael posted a series about his wheel that had a hairline crack in it. He said all was replace by VW and that they were so interested in this "Unique" failure that they had it all sent back to VW for "Study"
Hope you get at least the same treatment, especially now that Unique is converting to Rare.
Personally I like mine done "Medinum"


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (snw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *snw* »_In your case did the dealer warranty?

Yes. The first thing they did was to give me the brand new, never used spare out of their Phaeton demonstrator - that was to get me back on the road equipped with a spare. They then called VW to find out what the story was on warranty for the rim that had the crack.
It is interesting to note that although the folks my dealer talked to at VW of North America (not sure who this would have been - probably someone outside of the normal process, given that they made arrangements to have the rim sent back to Dresden) had no problems approving replacement of the entire rim and tire assembly under warranty, the local tech rep - the person who is responsible for supervising my dealership, so far as warranty claims is concerned - came by a few weeks later on a routine visit, and challenged the dealership staff about allowing a warranty claim on a defective rim.
I think that what we, as Phaeton owners, need to keep in mind is that VW probably gets 99.9% of their 'defective rim' warranty complaints from kids who own Golf GTI's who have put low profile tires on the original rims, then hit a pothole - or hit a curb with the rim. It's quite understandable that VW would take a generally defensive stand against replacing these rims under warranty. Phaetons are few and far between, and I think the key to getting a cracked Phaeton rim covered under warranty is to make sure that the dealership can provide photographic evidence that the rim and tire combination has never suffered any form of impact damage, and to perhaps contact Phaeton Customer Care if the dealer needs additional moral support for their warranty claim.
I really don't know much about the technology of aluminum rims, other than that it is normal for any light alloy rim (car or aircraft) to crack if it is subject to impact damage. It's fairly common for me to see cracked rims on aircraft that have been operating from unimproved surfaces, and I cracked a rim on my Golf a few years ago when I bumped a curb stop with it. Obviously, none of these problems would be covered by OEM warranty.
In the case of my Phaeton rim problem this summer, the 'low tire pressure' warnings first started to appear after I began a long (800 mile) freeway trip, and physical inspection of the rim, tire, and underside of the car did not reveal any evidence of impact damage. The crack itself was on the inboard side of the wheel, which discounted (but did not entirely rule out) curb damage.
Hope this info helps.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (Kcmover)*

Hi Larry:
Some suggestions and thoughts:

_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_ Came out of hotel this morning and the tire was down and took it to a Tire dealer. Got the tire and rim off the car and the wheel has a HAIRLINE CRACK on the inside of the rim.

Hot damn, I think hotel parking lots might be hazardous to Phaeton rims - I discovered my rim problem after staying overnight in the Hilton in Fred's town.







Seriously, though - please try and take some pictures of your rim - both sides - including close-ups of the crack itself. Maybe even hang onto the rim, and we can have a look at it when I come to KC in 10 days. It will be very interesting to see if there is any commonality between your crack and mine. The photos of my cracked rim are at this post: Stress Fracture in 'Challenge' Alloy Wheel 

_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_ Has anybody ever had a cracked rim covered by VW.
 
Yes, I did, as explained above.

_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_ The car has 21,000 miles so I guess to be smart I will replace the other front tire to match back in KC. Not sure if the other tire is safe to put back on to keep tire balanced and even wear.

There is a simpler and less expensive way you can keep the tires symmetrical on the car, so far as tire wear goes. It works like this: Find the original spare - the one you mounted when you had the flat tire - and put it on one of the front wheel positions. Now take your replacement tire - the one you just got to replace the damaged tire - and mount it on the other front wheel position. Take the leftover wheel, which will be a used wheel that was previously on the front of the car, and toss it into the spare tire well. Voila - you now have two new tires on the front of the car, and a used spare in the well at the back.

_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_ I also noticed that now that the defective Wheel is on the trunk. The sensors are really going crazy and show ALL FOUR TYRES ARE FLAT







I tried to reset a couple of times and it keeps coming back to this message. 

That's understandable, because Phaetons sold in North America don't give the driver the option of turning off monitoring of the fifth tire and rim, which is the one in the trunk. Chances are that tire and rim is either missing (at the dealer, being fixed) or flat. There is a workaround, it is described at this thread: Tire Pressure Monitoring System - watch 4 tires, or 5? How-to... In practice, though, it's a lot easier to simply ignore all the TPMS warnings until you get the spare repaired or replaced, then put the TPMS through a new learning cycle once you have 5 good wheels back on the car.
Be aware that any time you change a tire (in other words, shuffle the positions of the 5 tires that you have on board your car), you need to put the TPMS through a new learning cycle. And, as we all know by now, that has to be done the following morning, after everything has been allowed to cool down overnight, and all the tires and wheels are stone cold.
Lastly - I just want to remind everyone of the importance of putting a special VW wax compound on the flange that centers the wheel on the hub of the car whenever a wheel is removed and replaced. There is a post explaining the procedures here: Corrosion Prevention Precautions when removing and replacing Phaeton wheels. Because it is unlikely that you carry around a can of this wax in your trunk (for your personal use when changing flat tires...







), this means asking your VW dealer to remove the tire, remove any existing corrosion from the wheel hub, then apply the wax and re-mount the tire. This is a pretty quick and simple task. Remember that 'less is best' when applying this wax - only apply it to the very small area where the axle centering seat touches the hole in the middle of the rim, and to the beveled portion of the hole in the middle of the rim. Do not apply it to the large flat spacer, nor to anywhere else, and wipe off any wax drips before putting the wheel back on the axle.
Michael


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (Kcmover)*

Home from Omaha now. I have had a chance to clean and look at the damaged wheel and I can't see where the damage was caused by any road hazzard that I or the previous owner might have hit. Funny how the dealer had the car a whole day and couldn't find the bad wheel. 
Since I don't know how to post the photo's on this site. I will put a yahoo link here for the photo's. Greatly appreciate everybodies common sense and ideas about this issue and all the other ones with the fun Phaeton car.
[
_Modified by Kcmover at 7:48 AM 10-17-2005_


_Modified by Kcmover at 7:51 AM 10-17-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (Kcmover)*

Hi Larry:
Wow, that's exactly the same location as my rim, although your crack is a bit more obvious than mine.
Please email the photos to me (moore99 at rogers dot com) and I will host them for you. I can't download them at full size from your Yahoo account.
Can you clarify, is your car a W12 or a V8?
Michael


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Hope you got my pictures ok. My car is a V-8. Like to know your comments about the cracked wheel as I will go to Baron in the morning and discuss it with them. I am sure they really won't know what to say or do about it. They just don't seem to get a lot of Phaeton vehicles in there. They have a new Gray one on the showroom floor. My service rep there is very nice. He said that they had about 15 or 16 units in the KC area.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (Kcmover)*

Hi Larry:
The pictures came through OK by email, but they were quite small size - same as what is on Yahoo, not the original hi-res pictures. Could you perhaps check your files to see if you have the pictures at original size, and if so, send those to me?
About the warranty - personally, I've always found VW to be very good about warranty items, and this goes way back 10 or 20 years before I got the Phaeton, when I was buying Golfs and Jettas. They have never declined a warranty item for me that was reasonable - even when the car was out of warranty.
I think the trick to understanding warranty claims is that we have to comprehend that the dealer needs to get advance approval if the warranty claim is anything out of the ordinary. Cracked rims are very much 'out of the ordinary'. As I mentioned earlier, 999 out of 1000 cracked rims are the result of impact damage, so the automatic answer from a 'first line' person who is not familiar with Phaetons will probably be no. So, we have to give the dealers some time to contact a second line person (meaning, an engineer or a Phaeton specialist) and have them review the matter. Even then, it is reasonable that they might want to see the rim (at the regional office) before approving the claim. So, relax, go with the flow, and I am sure that you will get looked after OK in the end. 
If you have any concerns about the quality of the pictures, take a whole bunch more, including close-ups.
Michael


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Cold Weather Gremlins................Defective Tyres*

Well the temperture is droping and so is tire pressure. For the 2nd morning in a row. I have gotten into my Phaeton on my warm garage and driven down the street only to get the Defective Tyre warning chime and light on my dash. I got out of the car and checked all the tire as the position was not shown. 
Afterwards I got back in the car and started driving and the right rear position showed up. I again got out and checked the tire and pressure and it was fine. 
My next step was to reset the sensors in the learning mode and that was done. New pressures were 38 front and 43 rear. It seemed to work fine. No issues.
Went to lunch at 2:00pm and again after sitting for 4 hours the defective Tyre stuff started again.







Now I'm getting mad again. Checked all the tires and every thing was fine. It eventually cleared itself and nothing more happened that day. 
Got in the car this morning and pulled out of my warm garage and again the defective tyre warning chime and light on the dash. 
Is this something that every Phaeton owner has to deal with our is it just my Phaeton Gremlin. It is driving me









I do understand how the TPMS sensors work but maybe they are too sensitive to weather changes.

Larry


_Modified by Kcmover at 7:40 AM 12-1-2005_


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

PV=MRT
Or P=MRT/V
Lower the T
Keep everything else equal So P goes down. The TPMS does not compensate completely for T . 
I had the same situation on the Nissan Murano and the Mercedes. I feel that the systems should be more or maybe at least some compensation for temperature changes.
On the Murano I simply raised the Pressure about 2 psi to get it over the threshold. On the Mercedes I had to change the "Air" in the tires from Air to Argon and eliminated the problem that way. As soon as I can I will be switching to Argon on the Phaeton. Argon being truly inert also eliminates any oxidation of the rubber or any oxidizable components inside the tire beside having a much lower thermal conductivity and much higher "M" changing the slope of the P line relative to Temperature. 


_Modified by GripperDon at 3:18 PM 12-1-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cold Weather Gremlins................Defective Tyres (Kcmover)*

Hi Larry:
You have correctly guessed that the warning messages you are seeing are quite legitimate - the TPMS is doing exactly what it is designed to do, which is to advise you when the pressure in a tire drops below one of two thresholds:
*a)* the minimum value coded in the system for the weight of your car.
*b)* the 'normal' pressure of the tire, as learned during the last learning cycle. This may not be less than a), above.
From reading your explanation, it sounds like you are doing everything right, except for one thing. You wrote:

_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_...Afterward I got back in the car and started driving and the right rear position showed up. I again got out and checked the tire and pressure and it was fine...

The tire pressure was probably find at the time you checked it because the tire had warmed up (from rolling), and as a result, the pressure rose.
Then, you parked the car for 4 hours, the tire cooled off somewhat, causing a pressure drop, and you saw the warning again. You started driving, the tire heated up, and the warning went away because the pressure in the tire rose (again) due to the temperature increase caused by driving.
My guess is that the normal decrease in pressure that you have experienced as a result of seasonal temperature change in the KC area has lowered the *COLD* pressure of your tire to just a wee tad below what is allowed. The answer to this is fairly straightforward:
*1)* Get a good quality tire pressure gauge, such as the one shown in the picture below.
*2) *Check the tire pressure in the morning, before starting the car, after the car has sat overnight at outside (ambient) temperature. This ensures that all the components - tires, rims, and sensors - are cold-soaked and at ambient temperature.
*3)* Note the difference on each tire between actual pressure and the desired (target) pressure for your car. Now, drive as short a distance as possible (ideally one mile or less) to a service station that has an air pump, and fill the tires up to the target pressures.
*4)* If you have not, ever, initiated a learning cycle as a result of the warnings caused by seasonal temperature variation, then you don't have to put the car through another learning cycle. The warning message will go away after a few minutes of driving, as soon as the car realizes that the pressures are now back up to the desired levels.
*5)* If you have recently initiated a learning cycle under the wrong conditions (i.e. with warm tires, as you reported that you did), then you will need to initiate another learning cycle while everything is still stone-cold, once the tires have been re-inflated to the correct pressures. So, initiate the learning cycle, then go for a 7 to 10 mile drive on an expressway within 30 minutes of initiating the learning cycle. The learning cycle will usually complete once about 7 to 10 miles has been driven at freeway speeds - this is enough to heat everything up.
Hope this helps. Here are links to a few discussions that have come up in the past about this exact same issue. In all cases, it's not a problem with the electronics on the car - they are doing exactly what they should be doing, warning you of a low pressure. The problem is seasonal temperature change, and (sometimes) the owner not recognizing that pressures always need to be checked and corrected when everything is stone cold, that is to say, at ambient outdoor temperature.
Past Discussions:
Tire Pressure Monitoring System fault
Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) - Design and Function
Michael

*Blue Point Tire Gauge - about $25*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Hi Don:
Earlier in this thread, you wrote

_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_...The TPMS does not compensate completely for T.

I'm not sure exactly what context you are referring to T in. The TPMS system compensates for _*dynamic*_ changes in T that arise from the tire heating up and cooling down as we drive the car.
By design and by intent, it does NOT compensate for absolute pressure drops within the tire that are caused by seasonal variations in ambient T. You wouldn't want the system to do this. For example:
Car owner buys car in July in Flagstaff AZ, outside air temperature is 80° F, and inflates tires to the desired reference pressure of (let's say) 40 PSI, starts a learning process and successfully adapts the system. The owner then goes back to bed, sleeps like Rip Van Winkle, and wakes up on the coldest morning of January, outside air temperature is now -20°F. Assuming no leakage of any kind has taken place, the pressure of the tire will now probably be 35 PSI, which is below the 3 PSI threshold that will trigger a low pressure warning.
In such a circumstance, you would want the TPMS to alert you to this problem, because your tires are well below the desired reference pressure that you established of 40 PSI.
In the old days, we knew that it was necessary to always add air to the tires every fall to maintain the desired reference pressure. If our tires were perfectly sealed, we also had to let a bit of air out in the spring, but in practice, the tires were never perfectly sealed, so all we ever wound up doing was adding a bit in the fall. With the introduction of TPMS, we now have a monitoring system that is reminding us of the law of physics that you so clearly pointed out in your earlier post.
In 2007, TPMS will become mandatory on all cars sold in the USA - this is a legislative outcome of the Ford / Firestone tire fiasco of about 10 years ago. I can't wait to see what kind of hell breaks loose at all the Hertz, Avis, etc. car rental locations in the northern part of the USA during the first cold snap of the winter of 2007.







It ain't gonna be pretty.
Michael


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: (jmdpjd1)*

Air being 80% Nitrogen going to 100% is a small change in thermal conductivity, However 100% Nitrogen will eliminat the oxidation. I like going to Argon as it is trully inert Nitrogen still being not perfect.
What ever you do A flush out is in order as siply letting the pressure out and then refilling would leave you with a tire "full" of Air at atmospheric pressure. So I cycle it about 3 to four times to try and improve on that a bit.


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael
Quote, originally posted by Michael
"By design and by intent, it does NOT compensate for absolute pressure drops within the tire that are caused by seasonal variations in ambient T. You wouldn't want the system to do this."
Actually I would. I personally want a system that reports only on changes of mass of Gas in the tire. My tire Volume changes very little and it's temperature changes a lot.
If it ignored T and V and R then P=M which is what I want. I am not personally interested in haveing any alerts about my tires unless the mass of gas in the tire changes, as that would indicate to me that the tire has lost gas mass and therefor pressure. My operative phrase in my post was "compensate for temperature completely". I don't personally want to be annoyed with thinking my tire is flat or low when the only thing that has really happened is the temperature has gone down. (Your example is a good one, "no leakage of any kind has taken place") While some may be concerned that it is not good to drive with the 35 as compared to the 40, I am not. This is further compounded by the fact that I like my tires somewhat below the normal pressure, in that I am very rarely with more than 2 passengers or have luggage and I like the somewhat stiffer steering and softer ride. So I would never even have 38 to 40 to begin with.
I hear of so any folks complaining of low pressure warnings on so many kinds of cars and it causes so many dealer complaints that I know the NHTSA is already investigating a possible change in the rule.
So this is my desire to eliminate or reduce alerts and I accomplish this by altering the learned pressure, gas, settings, etc.. I do like the fact very much, that the Phaeton ( Siemens I think ) systme has learnable pressures where as the Asian systems do not.
I also have an air conditioned garage so I don't get more than 80F in the Summer (no 110F for my baby) and if it ever gets to -20F here I'll move as a matter of fact if it ever gets to freezing in my garage I'll move. I reserve my trips to Flag, Sedona and the like to summer and stay here in the winter where I can have Thanksgiving Dinner on the Pation and take a wonderfull walk in my shirtsleves like I did today. So all in all I really don't have a lot of cold temperature to deal with, thanks goodness.










_Modified by GripperDon at 5:06 PM 12-1-2005_


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_ With the introduction of TPMS, we now have a monitoring system that is reminding us of the law of physics that you so clearly pointed out in your earlier post.
In 2007, TPMS will become mandatory on all cars sold in the USA - this is a legislative outcome of the Ford / Firestone tire fiasco of about 10 years ago. I can't wait to see what kind of hell breaks loose at all the Hertz, Avis, etc. car rental locations in the northern part of the USA during the first cold snap of the winter of 2007.







It ain't gonna be pretty.


I agree, Michael, but disregarding the basic physics and different gases, wouldn't the simple answer be to just be able to set your own parameters. If it were possible to change the "threshold" from 3 psi to lets say 6 psi, then maybe no warning. Or better yet, just turn the system off. I personally want to know if there is a 3 psi difference. The damn tyres,(like the spelling), cost too much to replace because of uneven wear. And the low profile tires will do this in a heart beat. I guess we'll see how much influence the _Big Three_ has on the US Congress?







I bet it will be fixed before it happens. They will set it up to let you know just before there is a flat _tyre._








Regards,
Brent


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (W126C)*


_Quote, originally posted by *W126C* »_ If it were possible to ... just turn the system off. 

Hi Brent:
The TMPS system uses 0.3 bar of pressure (about 4.3 PSI) as the trip threshold for generating a warning caused by a non-dynamic pressure drop - in other words, a pressure drop that does not take place while you are driving. Because the system does not instantly monitor tire pressures as soon as you turn on the ignition (the tires need to rotate a bit, to allow the sensors to pass by the antennas), you might not get this 'static pressure drop' warning until you have driven a few hundred feet down the street from wherever you were parked.
As for turning the system off - Volkswagen's designers gave the Phaeton drivers the ability to do this in every market in the world, except the USA. In the USA, federal law prohibits the manufacturers from giving the driver the ability to disable the system. It wasn't VW's decision, it was the American government's decision.
*Phaeton TPMS Controls - Markets other than USA*


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## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_
I personally want a system that reports only on changes of mass of Gas in the tire. My tire Volume changes very little and it's temperature changes a lot.


Don,
I think your assumptions about the volume and temperature of the gas within a tire are valid:
1. The volume of gas changes very little.
2. The temperature of the gas changes substantially.
However, the mass of the gas within the container is not what is important. The pressure that the mass imparts is all that matters. The pressure (P) and temperature (T) and directly proportional and share a first-order relationship







(Ideal Gas Law).
The temperature of the gas really doesn't matter, as long as the temperature is within the operating extremes of the tire and wheel. Obviously, a change in temperature will result in a change in pressure as long as there are no leaks and the volume remains constant (reasonable assumptions). The primary thing to be concerned with is the pressure. This is what enables the tire/wheel assembly to function properly. If the pressure is too low or too high, you will have a much greater likelihood to experience tire failure. Under-inflated tires often generate higher sidewall temperatures and loose their ability to shed the heat adequately.
Many people have the misconception that you can put air in a tire once and then you can totally forget about the tires unless there is a leak... this is simply untrue. Tire pressure should be periodically checked (every oil change for the average user - or every 3 months) and adjusted appropriately.
Douglas


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## rps (May 2, 2006)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (PanEuropean)*

I've recently had problems with my tire pressure system. The Flat Tyre
warning came on--I checked all tires and found only only one to be a bit low. The next day Defective Wheel warning came on. I took the car to VW and they found low pressure in the spare-=nothing else.
One week passed, and today it happened in reverse. Defective Wheel warning came on-==when I switched off the engine to check the tires(all normal) and then started the engine again, the Flat Tyre warning came on. Any ideas?
Richard


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (rps)*

Hi Richard:
I strongly suspect seasonal temperature change as the cause for your problems. This topic has been discussed in more detail at this post: That time of year again -- check your tire pressures.
Michael


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## rps (May 2, 2006)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (PanEuropean)*

VW found a nail in a tire --hopefully the repair will solve the problem.
Thanks,Richard


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Defective Wheel notice and Flat tyre (rps)*

Yeah, I guess that could cause a warning message too...








Michael


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## 98741 (Oct 14, 2006)

*Car Wash link....*

Aside from temperature, I think there is another link between car washes and TPMS failures - mine happened today. Going in, no warning - after car wash (coin-op DIY type), 4 "defective wheels". Reset the system, drove 10 mins., now I have 3 OK tires and 1 flat tire that is not flat. I'll reset the system to new spec pressures tomorrow morning and hopefully it will go away.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Car Wash link.... (sethdallob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sethdallob* »_Reset the system, drove 10 mins., now I have 3 OK tires and 1 flat tire that is not flat. 

Remember that "flat tire" in TPMS speak may be low tire pressure (as little as 2 lb. below set pressure). Have you actually checked the pressure in each of the tires with a gauge or have you visually decided you don't have a flat?


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## 98741 (Oct 14, 2006)

*Re: Car Wash link.... (car_guy)*

It was fine yesterday. I'll check again this morning when everything is cooled down. It would be very odd if the tire spontaneously lost pressure at a car wash.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Car Wash link.... (sethdallob)*

I doubt that it would have lost pressure at the car wash. There is an off chance that perhaps the cooling effect of the water may have resulted in an imbalance of temperatures as measured by the sensor - thus causing the sensor to think that the pressure was lower or higher than it actually was.
This is a long shot, but keep in mind that the sensor measures it's own temperature, and assumes that is also the temperature of the air in the tire. Thus, if the valve stem was sprayed with cold water for an extended period of time (to get it clean), the sensor may have cooled down rapidly... this might have confused things.
Just a guess, only a guess.
Michael


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## 98741 (Oct 14, 2006)

*Re: Car Wash link.... (PanEuropean)*

Measured all 4 tires today, there was one a little low. Inflated it to spec, started the car cold, and reset the system...no dice. It says I have 4 defective wheels for 10-15 miles of driving, then tells me the right rear is flat. It is holding air just fine. Back at the dealer again - will keep the board informed.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Car Wash link.... (sethdallob)*

What was the pressure of the one that was low? Was it the right rear? What was the pressure of the other three? What pressures are you now trying to set the four tires to?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Car Wash link.... (sethdallob)*

Seth:
Be sure that you check the pressure of the spare tire too. The car monitors all five tires.
Michael


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## 98741 (Oct 14, 2006)

*Re: Car Wash link.... (car_guy)*

It was the right rear that was low @ 40 psi. IIRC, the car was set to 42 front/46 rear, and the other 3 tires were fine. I think the dealer turned off spare tire monitoring in the last go-round. I used to have separate psi readings for each wheel including spare, now I only have numbers between the axles. All was well for 1.5 months until I went to the car wash.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Car Wash link.... (sethdallob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sethdallob* »_ ...I used to have separate psi readings for each wheel including spare, now I only have numbers between the axles...

I kinda, sorta _(translation = 90% confidence)_ think that is the result of replacing a TPMS controller that is at software version 21 or lower with a new controller that is at software version 25 (next increment) or higher, *and *coding the new controller to NAR specifications.
Michael


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Car Wash link.... (sethdallob)*

Seth: "Aside from temperature, I think there is another link between car washes and TPMS failures - mine happened today. Going in, no warning - after car wash (coin-op DIY type), 4 "defective wheels". Reset the system, drove 10 mins., now I have 3 OK tires and 1 flat tire that is not flat. I'll reset the system to new spec pressures tomorrow morning and hopefully it will go away."
Car_guy: I don't understand the "defective wheels" message (Michael can probably explain it in this case), but in light of your later posts the system was correctly reporting your right rear as "flat", as it was four pounds lower than its set point and the corresponding tire on the same axle. The fact that this occurred at the car wash might be purely coincidental. It had to occur somewhere!
Seth: "Measured all 4 tires today, there was one a little low. Inflated it to spec, started the car cold, and reset the system...no dice. It says I have 4 defective wheels for 10-15 miles of driving, then tells me the right rear is flat. It is holding air just fine. Back at the dealer again - will keep the board informed."
Car_guy: The system reports a tire "that is a little low" (four pounds in this case) as flat. It will do that with a tire that is as little as two pounds low. I prefer this sensitivity as it identifies slow leaks effectively.
Seth: "It was the right rear that was low @ 40 psi. IIRC, the car was set to 42 front/46 rear, and the other 3 tires were fine. I think the dealer turned off spare tire monitoring in the last go-round. I used to have separate psi readings for each wheel including spare, now I only have numbers between the axles. All was well for 1.5 months until I went to the car wash."
I would like to propose a simple set of procedures to follow when the TPMS system reports ANY tire fault. I welcome suggestion/corrections to this list.
1. Check the pressures in the tires with a high quality air gauge. Concluding that the tires are all OK after a visual check is not sufficient. The spare tire should be checked as well if none of the other four has an anomalous reading. Remember that warm tires will have slightly higher readings than cold tires.
2. If a tire is found to be more than one pound different than its set point, adjust it to the pressure of the good tire on the same axle. This will eliminate any issues resulting from pressures varying due to the temp of the air in the tire. DO NOT reset the system. Adjusting the pressure should be sufficient to remove the warning. I don't remember how long it takes for the warning to go away. I think it was immediate or very quick.
3. If after adjusting all the pressures as necessary the warning does not go away, wait until the next morning and the tires are cold soaked to reset the system and specify new pressures. Michael has a post that gives details on the exact procedure for this.
Many owners are reporting problems with the TPMS because, after they visually examine the tires and they appear OK, they assume the system is making an error. I think it's a better bet to assume the system is correct, even though the "language" it uses is perhaps somewhat misleading. Simply put, when it tells you there is a problem with a tire or wheel, stop the car in a safe place, reach in the glove box for the accurate air gauge that you should have in there, and measure the pressure. In most cases it is a lot easier than trying to guess what is going wrong and what might have caused the problem.



_Modified by car_guy at 11:32 AM 3-6-2007_


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (sethdallob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sethdallob* »_I heard from the dealer today. Nothing is wrong with the tire, but they still don't know what is wrong. There seem to be a couple other incidents in this thread regarding car washes, so I'll be another data point. 

I looked through the thread and couldn't find the other references to car washes. Unless I missed them, I don't think there is a pattern there.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Car Wash link.... (car_guy)*

What Steven has written below is perfect, absolutely perfect. I wrote a much more elaborate version of what is basically the same statement a few pages earlier in this thread, but Steven has boiled it down to the three key points that need to be followed. 
This is perfect, print it, cut it out, stuff it in your glovebox:

_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_a simple set of procedures to follow when the TPMS system reports ANY tire fault. 
*1.* Check the pressures in the tires with a high quality air gauge. Concluding that the tires are all OK after a visual check is not sufficient. The spare tire should be checked as well if none of the other four has an anomalous reading. Remember that warm tires will have slightly higher readings than cold tires.
*2.* If a tire is found to be more than one pound different than its set point, adjust it to the pressure of the good tire on the same axle. This will eliminate any issues resulting from pressures varying due to the temp of the air in the tire. DO NOT reset the system. *Adjusting the pressure should be sufficient to remove the warning.*  I don't remember how long it takes for the warning to go away. I think it was immediate or very quick. _(up to 10 minutes or 5 miles, at the most - Michael)_
*3.* If after adjusting all the pressures as necessary the warning does not go away, wait until the next morning and the tires are cold soaked to reset the system and specify new pressures. Michael has a post that gives details on the exact procedure for this.

Steven has made several very important (and frequently overlooked) points which I have highlighted in red.
When I next get to Dresden, I will find out a bit more about how we can recode our TPMS controllers (both <= software 21 and => software 25) so it gives us full European functionality, in other words, shows pressures at each wheel. This might take some of the guessing out of the game.
Michael


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## 98741 (Oct 14, 2006)

Sorry, the mention of car wash is in this thread - http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1792364
"Started the car after breakfast and a prompt came on and said Defective wheel. Oh my I thought that perhaps something happened earlier in the day at the car wash. But thats another issue as I think the rims are getting rub damage on the Auto line there.
But the defective wheel sign came on and I walked around the car and could see nothing wrong. It did not tell me which wheel position. So I took off and got on the Highway. after about 5 mins of 60 mph speed the Flat Tyre symbol came on and the Nav screen showed it being the right front tire. Pulled over and checked it and it was not flat. went about a mile to a filling station and used an air gauge on it and it
37lbs. both fronts had 37lbs and the rears about 45lbs. Since I couldn't find out the problem I called the Phaeton Hotline thru onstar. What a waste of time as onstar told me the VW folks for Phaeton do not work weekends. Call them Monday. Ok... I can handle that.
Anybody have any ideas as to what is going on with the wheel sensor and the tire. I will also post this by its self.
Thanks...."
"talk about timing of a thread! I don't drive it everyday, in fact, sometimes it will sit for a week or even 2 before it sees the highway. but just this sunday, i took it out and i got the "flat Tyre" message. the info screen said "ok" to all four tires and i checked around the car and all looked fine. didn't have a gauge. will try again after all this rain goes away and will test the PSI and reset as well as look at the spare. the car wash "rub" is not uncommon. hand wasking (at least on the east coast) might be the only cure. "



_Modified by sethdallob at 8:18 PM 3-7-2007_


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## baremytone (Dec 7, 2007)

*warnings cannot be shown temporarily*

Just bought the car 2 weeks ago and always indicates a problem with TPS. At start-up tries to monitor the system and then SERVICE NOW comes up. No pressures have ever been displayed. Displays reads "Warnings Cannot Be Shown Temporarily".
I have adjusted tire pressures today - they were low - and reset to original settings but still no change in the display. I assume I've got bigger problem?
Anyone else have this error?
Thanks,
Brian.
I absolutely love this car!


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## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: warnings cannot be shown temporarily (baremytone)*

Is it safe to assume that you followed the instructions in the FAQ about checking the pressures when the tires are cold, filling them to spec, press the set new pressures button (or whatever it is labeled) and then driving for 20-30 minutes, much of that time at highway speeds?


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: warnings cannot be shown temporarily (baremytone)*

Don't forget the air in your spare tire!
The Service Now is likely something else, not the tire pressure monitor.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: warnings cannot be shown temporarily (baremytone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *baremytone* »_No pressures have ever been displayed. Displays reads "Warnings Cannot Be Shown Temporarily". I have adjusted tire pressures today - they were low - and reset to original settings but still no change in the display. I assume I've got bigger problem?

Hi Brian:
Welcome to the forum.
My first guess is that perhaps you have a coding problem, or perhaps the controller or sensors may be missing. It's kind of hard to troubleshoot something like this when you have no previous experience of the system working properly, because that leaves open many possibilities.
You might want to ask your VW dealer to do a diagnostic scan of the car, then have a look at the fault codes that are reported for the TPMS controller. That's really the easiest and best way to start troubleshooting.
Michael


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## strakit (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: warnings cannot be shown temporarily (PanEuropean)*

About a week ago, my Phaeton started randomly showing either Tyre Pressure System Fault or Flat Tyre...
I had the 90.000km service done this monday, and asked the guys at the dealership to check it out.
They showed me a printout of some diagnostic tool that showed that the tyre pressure sensors batteries were low. So i just decided to wait until i change to summer tyres to have it fixed. The said cost to replace batteries would be around 4€ each... not so bad. 
Anybody had same diagnostic???
Pedro


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: warnings cannot be shown temporarily (strakit)*

Hi Pedro:
I am not aware that it is possible to replace batteries in the sensors - I thought that the entire sensor needed to be replaced.
Michael


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## strakit (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: warnings cannot be shown temporarily (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael,
I will allow for a possibility for being "lost in translation"... I'm Portuguese, the service people are Estonians and we talk in English... But i'm almost sure they said "replace the batteries", not the sensor. Anyway, im gonna pass by dealership today and confirm this..
Pedro


_Modified by strakit at 1:29 AM 3-12-2008_


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## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: warnings cannot be shown temporarily (strakit)*

Pedro -
Let us know how the dealer replaces the batteries in the TPMS modules. I had wondered if the batteries were serviceable after taking note of the foam insert in the potted side (rim side) of the sensor. I have linked to photos of a Touareg sensor, which is similar to that used in the Phaeton:
*Tire Pressure Monitoring Sensor*
_This sensor is for the Touareg, which is similar to, but not interchangeable with that of the Phaeton._








*Opposite (facing rim) side of the sensor.*








For additional information regarding TPMS Sensors, please see this thread.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: warnings cannot be shown temporarily (copernicus0001)*

Hi Douglas:
I still have that sensor sitting on my desk at home (Toronto) - I'll be passing through there this weekend, and will try to take it apart.
Michael


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## jlindy (Mar 21, 2006)

I was told by my dealer yesterday that the sensors have batteries in them that can go bad after time and thus, they might have to replace the batteries.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (jlindy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jlindy* »_I was told by my dealer yesterday that the sensors have batteries in them that can go bad after time and thus, they might have to replace the batteries. 

Are you confirming that the batteries are a replaceable part of the sensors?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (car_guy)*

I don't know for sure, but I really, really doubt that the battery can be replaced by itself. I am pretty sure (99%) that you have to replace the entire sensor.
Michael


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## jlindy (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: (car_guy)*

That is what two different people told me. We shall see.


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## jlindy (Mar 21, 2006)

When I called the dealer to check on my car, they said nothing of the batteries and said one of the sensors was replaced so I don't know if the battery option is viable or not.


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## nascarpilot (Mar 17, 2008)

*Yet another TMPS question*

I wasn't able to find this specific issue addressed in the FAQ. I've had my 04 V8 for a week now and am pleased with the car. I expected a couple of squawk items, so no surprise a couple of things have shown up. 
Since the first drive, the TPMS system would never display pressures. It would always say that the information was not available at this time. Anyway, tonight for the first time, the TPMS warning didn't come on right away. I checked the vehicle switch and, sure enough, there were the tire pressures displayed for all to see. That's the first time in a week. And just as I said "great!", the TPMS warning went off and off went the pressures and I got back the "not available at this time" message came back. 
I'm going to see if I can reset the pressures first thing in the morning. Does the car need to be running when I do it? Or can I do it with the key in the ignition? They have never been displayed before, but I'm hoping they'll show up in the morning since they did show up twice tonight.
I'd appreciate thoughts from some who are more mechanically inclined than I.


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Yet another TMPS question (nascarpilot)*

Hi Robert,
Check this out, lots of good info. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2809125
I set my pressures first thing in the morning. Dead cold. All tires/tyres including the spare to spec. Start the car, place the TPMS in the learn mode and drive until it takes. Most of the time it is only in the early Winter months I need to do this.
Regards,
Brent


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## ciscokidinsf (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Yet another TMPS question (W126C)*

That's exactly what happened to me. TPMS would never learn. Then one day, it did show the pressures OK for a few minutes, only to die later.
My Tech did two things:
Let go the air on all 5 tires completely and reinflated them 
and
Changed the sensor in the spare tire. 
You would think that the sensors are independent of each other, but they aren't, if one is failing, the 'learning' cycle never takes. 
Hopefully the cold-start in the morning TPMS cycle will solve it, but if not, time to take it to the dealer.


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## nascarpilot (Mar 17, 2008)

*Re: Yet another TMPS question (ciscokidinsf)*

Exactly. Mine would never seem to learn. When the pressures did show up (however briefly) tonight, I noticed that the rear pressures were at 50 and the fronts were 40-something. Unfortunately I was so surprised to see the numbers I forgot to memorize them before they went away. Anybody know what the magic numbers should be for a US spec car?


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Yet another TMPS question (nascarpilot)*

See the inside of the fuel filler door for the specs. If you set them outside the range or if, ie. left front to right front has a difference of a few psi. it isn't going to take. Be sure to check the spare tire/tyer.
Regards,
Brent


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## ciscokidinsf (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Yet another TMPS question (nascarpilot)*

50 psi seems kinda high though for regular 17-18 inch tires. My tech set mine at front 39-back 42 (for 'comfort riding') I probably will get new tires soon anyway. 
But yeah, the Phaeton will set the TPMS warning if the tire goes below the minimum pressure, I don't think it would, however, go off if the tire is over-inflated as per the suggested manufacturer guidelines. (Maybe I'm wrong here)


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## GS340 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Yet another TMPS question (ciscokidinsf)*

If I had a second set of rims with sensors and wanted to swap them would I have to go through this procedure or does the dealer have to program the computer for the new sensors each time I swap the wheels?


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## mhoepfin (Dec 20, 2007)

Have you tried hitting the "Reset" button when you are in the "Vehicle" screen?
Also, be sure not to have more than a 7psi difference between the front and back tires or you'll see the yellow indicators for all the readings.


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## rbn3 (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: TPMS*

Mine (2004 w12) does the same thing. It reads 44 front and 50 back, though the "real" pressures are 42/48. I have re-set and re-learned many, many times. When I start the car I get the tpms "error" message on the screen, but the pressures measure 44/50, and the small icon at the top of the screen does not come on. Within 3-5 minutes, the thing beeps and the little icon lights and the screen gives "no measurement" message. All the tires are to spec...I've checked many times. 
I have not tried the deflate/reflate trick. But I'm strumped and will be going in for my 30,000 service soon.


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## v1mbrt (Dec 25, 2007)

Same same for me with my set of wintertyres. Might be empty batteries in the TPMS sensors. One or more. Use VAG-COM to find out the basic error.


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## AudianerA6 (Sep 19, 2007)

*TMPS behaving strange. Possible Answer insight?!*

I've got trouble with my Tire pressure monitoring system almost since I bought the car (04 model). But now I might have figured out why my system gives so much headache.
The system is behaving like this:
Car is parking in a deep-level garage, lower basement. Temperature always up to 20C° (Celsius) lower then outside in the summer (in garage 10C°, outside 30C°) and around 10C° higher in winter then outside. Also the rubber floor is even colder, sometimes wet.
Now I drive the car outside and after a minute or so driving, the car answers with a failure report that the tpms is malfunctioning (German: 'Systemstörung'). It's not a flat tire report, but that the whole system is failing.
Now, when I drive a little, let's say 10min, stop the engine and then restart, everything is fine again. No failure reports. Even the measured pressure is correct. No buttons touched, by the way.
Now, if I park the car outside the same day, of course, after the system isn't reporting failures anymore, the system isn't going to report anything strange for the rest of the day aswell. Even after several engine restarts.
As I said, just when I drive out of the garage and restart, after tires got warm, the system works the way it should.
Now, my theory is, that the sensors can't handle the quick temperature change and thus fail.
Just in case, that's how I setup my tmps usually:
After car was left in garage over night, I drive to the nearest gas station (less then 5min) to refill pressure for all 4 tires. Then I start the learning procedure and start driving for about 15min (between 80 to 120km/h), till the learning info disappears and pressure shown on display for all tires.
What do you guys think? Could this be the reason that many tmps are behaving strange?
Another important info. I got this behaviour before I changed my front tires. Now my VW dealer says that wrong valves have been used on the new tires, causing the trouble!? Is it right that you have to watch for the correct valves when changing tires with tmps rims? Just to emphasize, the tmps had it's own life before the tires have been changed, already!!!


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## mhoepfin (Dec 20, 2007)

You should underfill the tires and then have the system relearn the pressure at this underfilled state.
Then, once the system has relearned this underfilled pressure, put air back into the tires to put them at a normal amount of air.
Then when you have fluctuations like you describe, your TPMS will be fine since you have actually set it to only trigger at a much lower level.


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## mannyjoe (Sep 20, 2007)

We had this same intermittent problem with our 2004. Replaced all the pressure sensors because the batteries were running down. Fortunately for us the $800 cost was covered as a VW certified car.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: TMPS behaving strange. Possible Answer insight?! (AudianerA6)*

Hi John:
The process of troubleshooting TPMS function problems is rather 'slow and relaxed' - in other words, it's not something you can complete in a day or two, it will take you about a week or 10 days to go through the whole process of looking at all the variables and ruling them out one by one.
Based on the information you have provided, here is how I suggest you organize your troubleshooting program:
*1) *Park the car in the garage overnight (in other words, cold-soak the car), check the pressures the next morning with a good quality gauge, then inflate the tires to the recommended pressure when they are cold-soaked. Then, put the system through a learning cycle.
Seasonal temperature problems only arise when the outside air temperature is dropping (e.g. 3rd quarter of the year in the Northern hemisphere), never when outside air temperatures are rising (spring and summer). If you set your tire pressures when the car is cold-soaked, and calibrate the system (invoke the learning mode) when the car is cold-soaked, pressures can only be higher (not lower) if the car later warms up to ambient summer temperatures. This will not cause problems.
*2) *When doing all the above, don't forget to check the pressure of the spare, and do rotate the spare tire within its storage well so that the valve stem is at the 12 o'clock position when you view it from standing behind the tire. This puts the valve stem and pressure transmitter in the most favourable location for the antennas in each rear wheel well to pick up the signal.
*3) *The morning after you have inflated all the tires, check the pressures once again when the car is cold-soaked and make a note of the 5 pressure readings.
*4) *A few days later, once again check the pressures when the car is cold-soaked. The purpose of this is to rule out any slow loss of pressure in one of the tires (in other words, to ensure that the problem is not arising as a result of a leak in one of the tires).
*5)* If you have a diagnostic scan tool, check controller 65 (the TPMS controller) to see if there are any fault codes stored. At the same time, check the Measured Value Blocks to determine the age of the sensors in the 5 tires. The sensors are probably getting quite close to the end of their lives - the service life of the sensor is limited by the service life of the battery embedded in the sensor. The data in the MVB will show you the number of months of life remaining in each sensor.
*6) *If you have not identified the cause of the problem by this point, and if the problem re-appears, reset the TPMS controller (controller 65) by entering a value of 00 in adaptation channel 1 of the controller. You will need to do this when the car is cold soaked, because as soon as you reset the controller, you will need to put it through another learning cycle.
Personally, I don't think that the cold temperatures in your garage have anything to do with your problem. I think the most likely cause of your problem is that one or more of the TPMS sensors has reached the end of its functional life - in other words, a battery is dead. Or, second most probable cause, one of your tires has a slow leak.
You mentioned that your VW dealer stated that "the wrong valves" had been used with the sensors. This is possible. The valves are an integral part of the sensor, they are of metal construction (with a plastic cap) and the valve holds the sensor in place. It may be necessary to remove and replace the valve stem, the nut on the end of the valve stem, and the plastic cap on the other end of the valve stem. The valve stems are somewhat expensive (about ₡20 each) because they are made of metal and are unique to the Beru sensor assembly. It would make sense to replace the stems if they are suspect, however, given the age of your vehicle, it would probably make more sense (and be more economical overall) to replace both the stems and the sensors. In other words, if you are going to pull the wheel off and break the bead to replace a valve stem, you might as well replace the sensor at the same time.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: TMPS behaving strange. Possible Answer insight?! (PanEuropean)*

Here is some additional reading that will be of value to you:
Confirm TPMS Controller is properly coded (see my post of 10:26 AM 10-28-2004 on that thread)
Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) - Design, Function, Operation, and Troubleshooting This is literally the 'everything you ever wanted to know about TPMS design, operation, and concepts' post.
Broken tire valve stem (and related TPMS messages)
Regards,
Michael


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: TMPS behaving strange. Possible Answer insight?! (PanEuropean)*

Now that it's beginning to be about that time, this is also posted as maintenance by VW:
Every 6 years regardless of miles driven 
Spark plugs: Replace 
Air filter element: Replace and clean housing 
*Tire pressure sensors: Replace (where applicable) *


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: TMPS behaving strange. Possible Answer insight?! (KCPhaetonTech)*

Good point, Matthew.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: TMPS behaving strange. Possible Answer insight?! (PanEuropean)*

*Archival Note: *See also this post, which discusses the same topic and presents some additional information - TPMS Troubleshooting and Problem Solving Difficulties.


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## Phaeton05 (Oct 1, 2009)

*Re: Tire Pressure Monitoring System fault (vwguild)*

I just found this site and I have to say that there's a lot of good information posted. Like the advise on the Tire Pressure, I took your advise and sure enough it work. It save me a trip to my local vw dealer. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Tire Pressure Monitoring System fault (Phaeton05)*

Welcome to the forum!
Michael


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: TMPS behaving strange. Possible Answer insight?! (PanEuropean)*

I wasn't sure where to post this, but I inadvertently managed to fix the issue where the TPMS won't set itself, hopefully if I put it here people will find it. This is something other than the usual difficulty of getting it to register the pressure you require, or getting all the tyres to match, etc, etc. 
I had all the usual intermittent and learning curve difficulties when I first got the vehicle. Eventually, after two trips to the dealer, two unnecessary and dangerous stops on the hard shoulder, and several months of thought, I did get the TPMS working correctly.
Shortly after changing the tyres, one corner started registering as flat shortly after starting. Long story short (and a big thank you to Discount Tire), the sensor battery was weak. Discount Tire changed it for free since it happened right after putting new tyres on.
Couple of months later, the system stopped registering pressures altogether. After resetting, it would be in learning mode for about 30 miles, and at the exact same distance every time (I know, because I would always reset it before setting off for the drop zone which is 35 miles away), it would come up with the "fault" indication saying it couldn't register the pressures.
The dealer spent some time looking at it, couldn't get it to work, and told me that the batteries had gone in all the sensors. I was always a bit skeptical about this explanation, since I knew that one sensor was brand new.
A couple of days ago, I bought the VAG COM software and cable and followed Jim's posted instructions to disable the control unit. I removed the fuse and coded Controller 7 to 0500105. This worked perfectly, the screen reacted as if it wasn't installed, and the dash warning disappeared.
This morning, I reversed the job prior to taking the vehicle to the dealer for the broken variable intake linkages, since I didn't want them using my tinkering as an excuse to deny a claim (VW Phaeton Customer Service have since called me and declined to offer any assistance). After reinstalling the fuse and recoding Controller 7 to 0500305, the system reappeared with the usual "monitoring fault" message, so on a whim I reset the pressures and headed off to lunch. On the way back, I noticed that the dashboard warning had disappeared, so I hit the Vehicle button and there were all the tyres, registered and showing pressures!
I don't know which step fixed the problem (I also did a "dummy" recode on Controller 19, as per Jim's instructions), but my suspicion falls on the fuse removal. So, even if you don't have the software, it's worth pulling the fuse and see what happens (fuse 11 on the left hand side in the trunk).
The coding, btw, is for the V8, reading Michael's various posts on the subject it looks as if the coding for the W12 is different. The VAG COM software says that one of the digits (the first 5, I think) is the country coding. If I can find the necessary cajones, I might try changing that at some point to see if the on/off switch is then available on the dash.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted.

Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

Hello. I'm frustrated by my TPMS. After driving about for several years with non-working sensors, I replaced all four tires (new size 275x40ZR19) and had new sensors installed including the spare tire. The sensors were eBay purchased and are new with 433 MHz frequency. Today I took a 30-mile drive from cold. First pushed VEHICLE, then RESET. Then started off in learn mode. I was driving about 55MPH in snowy, wet road conditions. Outside temp was about 28 degrees. After that trip the system showed 70 degrees on the Infotainment display and also said 1060kHz, but no tire pressures. The warning light in the cluster is still on. Wondering if there is a better way to get the pressures displayed and that warning light out?


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

Also, what does the "1060 kHz mean? And the 70-degree F? Is that the temp of the tires after warming them up by driving a while??


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

The 1060 MHz is the radio station. Mine shows my normal radio station. I was browsing the manual just now waiting for my Phaeton to rise (never did) and saw the same header on multiple pictures of the ZAB.

The temperatures are for the HVAC. Mine were different on each side. I pressed the left button under the center vent to max cold and the left temperature changed to LOW.



I had to clear faults in my TPMS controller once before it would behave. However, I have two used ones from eBay that never did behave.

EDIT: Did you buy the same sensors as the controller calls for? Mine says "to be used in conjunction with transmitters TSSRE..."


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

Oh, that's funny. So the radio station and HVAC set temp shows up on the tire pressure screen. I should have figured that out! Thank you.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> EDIT: Did you buy the same sensors as the controller calls for? Mine says "to be used in conjunction with transmitters TSSRE..."


Earlier Phaetons used other sensors. It depends on which your controller calls for. I understand the programmable sensors work as long as the frequency is the same but I haven't tried those yet.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

I can't tell you. Where do I find out what the "controller" says to use? My eBay seller advertised that they fit a 2004 Phaeton V8 which is what I have and that they were 433MHz. I'll check all the pressures with a tire gage. Someone has said the difference between fronts and rears can't be over 7 pounds and the paired tires need to be the same pressure. Maybe the mechanic didn't do that.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Paldi said:


> I can't tell you. Where do I find out what the "controller" says to use? My eBay seller advertised that they fit a 2004 Phaeton V8 which is what I have and that they were 433MHz. I'll check all the pressures with a tire gage. Someone has said the difference between fronts and rears can't be over 7 pounds and the paired tires need to be the same pressure. Maybe the mechanic didn't do that.


It's right on the label of the controller. It's the only controller you can get at without tools.

You can also check VCDS scans. If it's a G, it wants TSSRE sensors. I think mine are TSSRE 4b but I bought mine by part number and that eBay auction is no longer showing . I have new ones that are TSSRE 4b that I am going to put in refurbished wheels.

I used the same G controller in both Phaetons because the one in 8486 took a dump. All I had to do was remove the fuse before removing the controller and put the fuse back after reinstalling the controller. Even though the pressures were different, the TPMS worked on both Phaetons without needing to learn each time.

The C controllers want other sensors. I think they are RDKS but will check eBay.

Edit: Here's a C:









2004 2005 2006 VW PHAETON 3D TPMS TIRE PRESSURE MONITORING MODULE OEM | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2004 2005 2006 VW PHAETON 3D TPMS TIRE PRESSURE MONITORING MODULE OEM at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





Here's a G:









VW Volkswagen OEM TPMS Tire Pressuring Monitoring-control Module 3D0907273G for sale online | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for VW Volkswagen OEM TPMS Tire Pressuring Monitoring-control Module 3D0907273G at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





The rears and spare have to be the same. I pump my rears and spare up to 50 psi according to my gauge. I pump the fronts up to 48. TPMS says they are all lower.


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## Phat One (Jul 10, 2009)

If it helps any, I bought these and they are working perfectly:
4PCS TPMS Tire Pressure Sensor 433MHz For Audi A8 Volkswagen Phaeton 4D0907275C | eBay
4PCS TPMS Tire Pressure Sensor 433MHz For Audi A8 Volkswagen Phaeton 4D0907275C | eBay


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Phat One said:


> If it helps any, I bought these and they are working perfectly:
> 4PCS TPMS Tire Pressure Sensor 433MHz For Audi A8 Volkswagen Phaeton 4D0907275C | eBay
> 4PCS TPMS Tire Pressure Sensor 433MHz For Audi A8 Volkswagen Phaeton 4D0907275C | eBay


Those are TSSRE. They would work in mine.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

Phat One said:


> If it helps any, I bought these and they are working perfectly:
> 4PCS TPMS Tire Pressure Sensor 433MHz For Audi A8 Volkswagen Phaeton 4D0907275C | eBay
> 4PCS TPMS Tire Pressure Sensor 433MHz For Audi A8 Volkswagen Phaeton 4D0907275C | eBay


I have those. There were 2 defective Shrader valves out of the 5. Still sorting things out. I wasn't aware the pressures had to match what is posted on the door frame. All tires were at 40 pounds.


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## Phat One (Jul 10, 2009)

Paldi said:


> I have those. There were 2 defective Shrader valves out of the 5. Still sorting things out. I wasn't aware the pressures had to match what is posted on the door frame. All tires were at 40 pounds.


I bought better valves here for not much money: VOLKSWAGEN PHAETON TPMS Sensors | OEM TPMS, Tools, Accessories | TPMSDirect


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I have tried a few different controllers that didn't work. The first one was for a later Porsche and it caused a bunch of warning lights when I tried it in 8486 and I couldn't even see it with VCDS. I don't have its part number handy but I posted about it before. 

The recent try was with a 7L5907273E (which the seller said came from another Porsche but was supposed to work on 2003-2010). I put that in 7579 and it didn't light up any warnings and I could see it in VCDS but I couldn't recode it. It takes long coding and VCDS wouldn't even let me change coding on it. 

My next experiment will be with a Touareg controller. I haven't bought one yet but they are around $59.00 used whereas used Phaeton controllers start at over $100.00 on eBay. 

The controller in 8486 died and the used Phaeton controllers I bought on eBay didn't work. I ended up swapping the good controller from 7579 back and forth. 

I am not willing to spend over $100.00 a piece for a used controller that probably won't work but $59.00 or so would be worth trying. I'll give it a go after I change out the struts on 7579.


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