# APR Presents: North American TT RS 2.5 TFSI ECU Upgrade!



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Product Page

APR is pleased to present the ultimate ECU Upgrade for the Audi TT RS and 
RS3 2.5 TFSI. After months of long nights and many hours of testing, development 
and more testing, we are pleased to offer you an ECU recalibration that is 
second to none. APR's extensive research and development provides you 
with a powerful ECU Upgrade with no loss of drivability or reliability. Expect 
tremendous increases in power and torque across the entire power band, 
improved throttle response and a smoother, more powerful top end.

The 2.5 TFSI's engine management presented new challenges to the 
Engineering Teams at APR in the form of new control strategies for 
torque management. Significant time was spent researching these new 
strategies to properly request more load and therefore more boost in the 
lower end of the power band. The results were simple, a torque curve that 
crushes the competition and delivers a rush of power like no other in the industry.

The Audi 2.5 TFSI ECU Upgrade is an expertly recalibrated engine control 
strategy that remaps boost, timing, air fuel ratios and other engine 
management paramaters to provide smooth and reliable power as if intended 
by the OEM. APR's ECU Upgrade is developed to work within the OEM 
and Tier 1 Supplier specifications for engine component stress tolerances 
and performance specifications. APR's ECU Upgrades are available in 
octane specific versions to allow you to take full advantage of the fuel 
quality available in your area.

APR’s Motorsport Left Foot Braking feature is now available allowing customers 
more control over their vehicle’s throttle. Under normal operation, throttle 
input is disabled while pressing the accelerator and brake at the same time, 
however this may be undesirable for those looking to get the most out of their 
vehicles performance on the track. Enabling the left foot braking feature, the 
driver will have complete control over the vehicle’s throttle and braking system, 
which may give the edge he or she needs at the track.

*Stage I ECU Upgrade*

Not only does our Stage I ECU Upgrade give you higher peak numbers of 
414 horsepower and 430 ft-lbs of torque, but also gains of up to 73 horsepower 
and 79 lb-ft are available at lower RPMs! APR's ECU Upgrade is the best 
power per dollar modification for the new 2.5 TFSI and gives it just the extra 
edge these cars lack from the factory without pushing the limits. With factory 
like smoothness and drivability APR's ECU Upgrade will fill the void in an 
otherwise excellent car.










Click here for figures measured at the front wheels on our in house Dynapack Dyno:
Dyno Chart












*APR Stage I ECU Upgrade Calibration Report*

Stock
As Reported by Audi AG
338 HP
332 TQ

Stock
As Reported by Audi USA
360 HP
343 TQ

Stock
As Measured by APR
375 HP
365 TQ

93 (R+M)/2 Octane
414 HP
430 HP
+73 HP @ 4,900 RPM
+79 TQ @ 4,900 RPM

*Application Guide*

All North American TT RS 2.5 TFSI 6MT's
All ROW TT RS 2.5 TFSI 6MT's or S-Tronic's
All ROW RS3 2.5 TFSI 6MT's or S-Tronic's

*Available Octane Modes*
91 (R+M)/2 - North America
93 (R+M)/2 - North America
100 (R+M)/2 - North America
95 RON - Rest of World
98 RON - Rest of World
104 RON - Rest of World

*US Price:*

$899

_Please check with your local importer if you are outside of the US for pricing in your country. _

All updates are available throught the ODB-II port at APR dealers (unless flashed back to stock).

North American and Tuning Protected Software Availability - At this time, all North 
American and Tuning Protected ECU's must be sent to APR to be flashed. APR 
anticipated availability at APR Dealers world wide as early as April 2012


Product Page
Order Form
Dealer Locator
Follow us on Facebook

APR LLC
4800 Highway 280 West
Opelika, AL 36830

+1 (334) 502-5181

GO APR!


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

hallelujah, it's here. just in time for next track event!


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

LongviewTx said:


> hallelujah, it's here. just in time for next track event!


Perfect! :thumbup:


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 30, 2007)

We've got a couple locals who are going to be very excited to hear this news! :thumbup:


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

All APR dealers are ready to go next week *without question *in US?


----------



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

There's a couple of interesting things there, besides the APR HP/TQ numbers.

1. The stock numbers.
2. The price.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

LongviewTx said:


> All APR dealers are ready to go next week *without question *in US?


None are. As stated, ECU's must be sent to APR for flashing until dealers get the tools to flash in house. We anticipate in house flashing in April.


----------



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> None are. As stated, ECU's must be sent to APR for flashing until dealers get the tools to flash in house. We anticipate in house flashing in April.


Oh, that's interesting too.


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> None are. As stated, ECU's must be sent to APR for flashing until dealers get the tools to flash in house. We anticipate in house flashing in April.


Are instructions to remove the ECU available from APR, or posted somewhere, for specifically the TT-RS?

And, what about the RSC Catalytic converter and back exhaust system? D
How much HP/Torque is added through its installtion above the ECU flash upgrade?

Lastly, I am wondering if the experts at APR have a recommnedation for replacement brake pads that are Street/Track combo useful and better than the OEM issue. Just planning ahead for the extra speed scrubbing requirements post flash.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

LongviewTx said:


> Are instructions to remove the ECU available from APR, or posted somewhere, for specifically the TT-RS?


The directions are essentially the same as the A3/GTI:

http://www.goapr.com/support/ecu_removal/gti_mk5.html

If you have any difficulty, an APR dealer can easily do it for you. I'll see to it we update the directions specific to the TT RS next week.


----------



## AppleChilli (Jan 10, 2012)

Very good news indeed; I'm so going to get this mod!


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

AppleChilli said:


> Very good news indeed; I'm so going to get this mod!


The acceleration is absolutely brutal. I love this engine so much.


----------



## AppleChilli (Jan 10, 2012)

I've noticed that the acceleration with the sport button pushed is 100% better than without; however, the suspension in a bit rougher. How is the acceleration w/o the sport button pushed or does it matter? Is the juice always on tap?


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

so canadians can send in the ECU as well? what is the deal with customs again? upon return shipment you just put down $899 as the value?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

AppleChilli said:


> I've noticed that the acceleration with the sport button pushed is 100% better than without; however, the suspension in a bit rougher. How is the acceleration w/o the sport button pushed or does it matter? Is the juice always on tap?


The juice is always on tap and the sport button functionality remains the same. 


On the dyno the car made the same power with and without the sport button enabled.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> so canadians can send in the ECU as well? what is the deal with customs again? upon return shipment you just put down $899 as the value?


Outside of the US we'll need you to send your ECU to an APR dealer.

Find a local dealer and contact them to arrange shipment. www.goapr.com/dealer/


----------



## AppleChilli (Jan 10, 2012)

Awesome! 

Do you have installers in Northern VA?

When will the tools be available and what will be the price of the exhaust?


----------



## AppleChilli (Jan 10, 2012)

AppleChilli said:


> Awesome!
> 
> Do you have installers in Northern VA?
> 
> When will the tools be available and what will be the price of the exhaust?


Saw the dealer locator


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

AppleChilli said:


> Awesome!
> 
> Do you have installers in Northern VA?
> 
> When will the tools be available and what will be the price of the exhaust?


We do! Try putting your zipcode in here:
http://www.goapr.com/dealer/

The exhaust price is still TBD. We don't have that info ready yet. 

The tools should be at the dealers in April if all goes to plan.


----------



## fourtunes (Sep 16, 2011)

Neat! Now I just have to hope that Audi manages to fix my car before 034Motorsports can perform the ECU update locally.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> *Available Octane Modes*
> 91 (R+M)/2 - North America


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

can you provide more info about the software, does it remove the 280kph speed limiter, does the boost graph in cluster functionality remain? and was it recalibrated for new boost settings? the throttle pedal stays lazy in non-sport mode and in sport mode is more touchy just like stock?


----------



## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

Woot! Looks great. I'm really excited about this mod.

Arin,

I'm an American living in Germany under military orders. My car is the NA version that I'm driving around here. I want to flash my car, but I have two problems:

1. I don't want to pay high Euro or British Pound prices. The exchange rate is brutal.
2. I don't want to ship my ECU to the States and back again. That would be a pretty devastating loss if it went missing.

So, I was wondering if it would be possible for me to (some time in the next few months) visit your UK HQ to perform the flashing there. But also at US pricing or something near it. I don't want to spend $1,500 on something that should only cost me $900, you know? What do you suggest?

Thanks,

- Jeremy -


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Thanks Arin! Important question for us out here in California / Arizona / Nevada: do you have a dyno curve for the 91 octane program? There is no link to numbers or curves for this in your post or on the APR product page.


Right now, unfortunately no, I don't have dyno figures for 91 octane. I know GoodSpeed in Arizona was itching to get a TTRS on the dyno so hopefully I can share their results! 



tdi-bart said:


> can you provide more info about the software, does it remove the 280kph speed limiter, does the boost graph in cluster functionality remain? and was it recalibrated for new boost settings? the throttle pedal stays lazy in non-sport mode and in sport mode is more touchy just like stock?


Speed limiter is removed. 
Boost in cluster still works and was not altered (it's just a sensor that reads boost, so no recal needed).
Sport/Normal throttle operation stays the same.



- Jeremy - said:


> Woot! Looks great. I'm really excited about this mod.
> 
> Arin,
> 
> ...


Please speak with APR Germany www.goapr.de. They offer discounts for US military personnel. 



> 2. I don't want to ship my ECU to the States and back again. That would be a pretty devastating loss if it went missing.


Our new flashing tools are almost ready for dealers. We anticipate on site flashing in April. 



> So, I was wondering if it would be possible for me to (some time in the next few months) visit your UK HQ to perform the flashing there. But also at US pricing or something near it. I don't want to spend $1,500 on something that should only cost me $900, you know? What do you suggest?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> - Jeremy -


Keith is handling much of the European operation now in the UK. I can get you in touch with him and we could see what can be arranged as I'm not up to speed on all the logistics in Europe with our network/pricing and such. Can you send me your email address in a PM?


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Right now, unfortunately no, I don't have dyno figures for 91 octane. I know GoodSpeed in Arizona was itching to get a TTRS on the dyno so hopefully I can share their results!


Thanks for the reply. So APR tunes for 91 octane offline from a dyno? It seems odd to sell a product (91 octane tune) with zero details about the performance. Any idea when APR will add this info to the product page? Thanks.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Thanks for the reply. So APR tunes for 91 octane offline from a dyno? It seems odd to sell a product (91 octane tune) with zero details about the performance. Any idea when APR will add this info to the product page? Thanks.


Very little of the tuning process actually takes place on the dyno as the car operates fairly differently on the dyno as it does on the road. We unfortunately did not get 91 octane dyno figures or 100 octane figures before the NA release. I'll see what can be done to get these figures in house but that may be difficult with the current Stage 3 project underway.


----------



## oldster1 (Oct 24, 2011)

ECU upgrade....how about one on the 2.0 TFSI. The RS is not lacking for power, the base TT could use some.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Very little of the tuning process actually takes place on the dyno as the car operates fairly differently on the dyno as it does on the road. We unfortunately did not get 91 octane dyno figures or 100 octane figures before the NA release. I'll see what can be done to get these figures in house but that may be difficult with the current Stage 3 project underway.


From the 2.0T TTS tune on the APR website, Stage 1 made 322 hp on 93 octane, and 313 hp on 91 octane (-9 hp, or -2.8%).

If we assume something similar for the TT-RS, then the 414 hp on 93 octane would drop to ~402 hp on 91. APR measured 375 hp stock, so that's a +27 hp (peak) increase (with greater gains in the mid-range, of course).

*Arin* - will Stage 3 upgrades be discounted for folks that already own Stage 1 (since the owner already has the APR reflash)?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> From the 2.0T TTS tune on the APR website, Stage 1 made 322 hp on 93 octane, and 313 hp on 91 octane (-9 hp, or -2.8%).
> 
> If we assume something similar for the TT-RS, then the 414 hp on 93 octane would drop to ~402 hp on 91. APR measured 375 hp stock, so that's a +27 hp (peak) increase (with greater gains in the mid-range, of course).
> 
> *Arin* - will Stage 3 upgrades be discounted for folks that already own Stage 1 (since the owner already has the APR reflash)?


I wouldn't assume anything when it comes to calibrations between different vehicles, but one thing to consider is that stock was measured with 93 octane, and not 91. 91 stock will produce lower figures than 93. 

Stage 3 always comes with one program, so if you have APR software, we give you a fully loaded ECU.


----------



## oldster1 (Oct 24, 2011)

no reply as to when APR will have anything for the 2.0 TFSI......


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> I wouldn't assume anything when it comes to calibrations between different vehicles, but one thing to consider is that stock was measured with 93 octane, and not 91. 91 stock will produce lower figures than 93.


Thanks Arin. Could be, although another possibility is that the stock tune is conservative enough that it will produce similar numbers on 91 and 93.

On the APR TTS Stage 1 chip page, the same power numbers are listed for stock for the 91 octane comparison and the 93 octane comparison (265 hp), so it's unclear which gas was used for the stock baseline.



[email protected] said:


> Stage 3 always comes with one program, so if you have APR software, we give you a fully loaded ECU.


If I were buy a Stage 1 reflash for $899 and later upgrade to a Stage 3, can I sell my Stage 1 program to someone else? That is, does APR support removing it from one car and installing it on another at a different location (for the cost of the labor to do the swap, let's say)? Or can the software never be transferred?

And lastly... can you clarify what a "fully loaded ECU" is?  Is that all program options (4 programs) plus all features (security lockout, etc.)?


----------



## VR6 NRG (Apr 23, 1999)

oldster1 said:


> no reply as to when APR will have anything for the 2.0 TFSI......


x349839835324 still waiting, its taking so damn long.

these 2.5T numbers are redonkulous though. man i wish i could afford the RS.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

oldster1 said:


> ECU upgrade....how about one on the 2.0 TFSI. The RS is not lacking for power, the base TT could use some.


We have beta software. Shoot me a PM with your contact info. 



Marty said:


> On the APR TTS Stage 1 chip page, the same power numbers are listed for stock for the 91 octane comparison and the 93 octane comparison (265 hp), so it's unclear which gas was used for the stock baseline.


We used 93. The only car I remember recently running a stock baseline using both was the B8 S4.




> If I were buy a Stage 1 reflash for $899 and later upgrade to a Stage 3, can I sell my Stage 1 program to someone else? That is, does APR support removing it from one car and installing it on another at a different location (for the cost of the labor to do the swap, let's say)? Or can the software never be transferred?


We don't offer software transfers. 



> And lastly... can you clarify what a "fully loaded ECU" is?  Is that all program options (4 programs) plus all features (security lockout, etc.)?


Typically it means 4 programs (stock, valet, 91, 93 or 100 octane are the normal ones), program switching through the cruise control stalk, fault code erase feature, security lockout and anti-theft.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

hahaha


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> We have beta software. Shoot me a PM with your contact info.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. I didn't realize that APR reflashes had no resale value. That seems like a big consideration for customers. It basically makes the cost of ownership considerably higher than if they could be resold. Though I understand that this would also reduce total APR sales.

But maybe APR would sell more reflashes if customers knew they could resell them? Tough business call.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> hahaha


Oh my lord! :facepalm:


----------



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

I've been on vacation, so I haven't been able to comment much.

No one else questioned the price, so I guess it must be fair. But, I'm not sure how APR sets their pricing. Most people would figure that if you buy a piece of software (that can't be transferred), the cost should be the same regardless of what car it goes in. But APR has flashes that range from $600 to $900 to $1500. The price doesn't seem to be related to the performance gain, but more likely to the demographic of the car owner. Hmmm.

Anyway, how certain is the "program switching"? That never came to fruition on the TTS, and I'm surprised it is somehow easier on the RS. Also, is that included in the price of the flash?


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

DrDomm said:


> I've been on vacation, so I haven't been able to comment much.
> 
> No one else questioned the price, so I guess it must be fair. But, I'm not sure how APR sets their pricing. Most people would figure that if you buy a piece of software (that can't be transferred), the cost should be the same regardless of what car it goes in. But APR has flashes that range from $600 to $900 to $1500. The price doesn't seem to be related to the performance gain, but more likely to the demographic of the car owner. Hmmm.
> 
> Anyway, how certain is the "program switching"? That never came to fruition on the TTS, and I'm surprised it is somehow easier on the RS. Also, is that included in the price of the flash?


As a separate datapoint, I had a Cobb reflash on my Subaru STI. It uses a stand-alone programmer that programs over the OBD port and locks the reflash to your car. You can uninstall the reflash at any time, and then the programmer can be used to reflash a different car (so it has a resale value).

I bought that Cobb reflash kit new for $650, and sold it 3 years later for $400. Cost of ownership: $250, or just 38% of the purchase price (neglecting the time value of money).

If I buy an APR reflash for my TT-RS, the cost of ownership is $900, period. Quite a difference!

Personally, I think the reflash cost of $900 is reasonable given the limited market *IF* I could resell it if I were to ever get rid of the car. The fact that the license isn't transferrable is a huge negative.

The APR reflash would have the same cost of ownership of $900 if it instead cost *$2500*, but you could resell it later for $1600. 

Maybe (if the immobilizer and coding details could be worked out), fellow TT-RS owners could trade ECUs as a way to get around the inability to transfer the license? Certainly not ideal, but a possible work-around if APR doesn't want to help.


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Marty said:


> As a separate datapoint, I had a Cobb reflash on my Subaru STI. It uses a stand-alone programmer that programs over the OBD port and locks the reflash to your car. You can uninstall the reflash at any time, and then the programmer can be used to reflash a different car (so it has a resale value).
> 
> I bought that Cobb reflash kit new for $650, and sold it 3 years later for $400. Cost of ownership: $250, or just 38% of the purchase price (neglecting the time value of money).
> 
> ...




I think the fact that you have to send in the ECU for the modification makes it more difficult to make this transferable. What if they have to make a physical change to the ECU circuitry? It might not be as simple as reloading the ROMs. With something like the Cobb access port I can see why it would be transferable because you've basically bought a license for the software that can be uninstalled and reinstalled.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The cost is directly related to r&d and volume.

A GTI is easy and sells billions. Cheap.
A ttrs requires new tuning tools and no one has this car. A little more expensive.
An s4 is nearly impossible to crack and not many have this car. Expensive.


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

for the record, I deem the price very fair for the performence gained and the expertise required to accomplish the feat.

Can't wait for the dealers to be ready, I'll be in the parking lot the next morning when they arrive to work.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> The cost is directly related to r&d and volume.
> 
> A GTI is easy and sells billions. Cheap.
> A ttrs requires new tuning tools and no one has this car. A little more expensive.
> An s4 is nearly impossible to crack and not many have this car. Expensive.


Curious: what makes the S4 so difficult to crack compared to other Audis? Just a newer ECU with newer encryption methods?



JohnLZ7W said:


> I think the fact that you have to send in the ECU for the modification makes it more difficult to make this transferable. What if they have to make a physical change to the ECU circuitry? It might not be as simple as reloading the ROMs. With something like the Cobb access port I can see why it would be transferable because you've basically bought a license for the software that can be uninstalled and reinstalled.


I can definitely see the challenges with the APR allowing license transfers. But it would be nice if you and your friend could drive down to the local APR dealer, bring your ECUs, and get the reflash swapped for a modest transfer fee. Disagree?


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Marty said:


> I can definitely see the challenges with the APR allowing license transfers. But it would be nice if you and your friend could drive down to the local APR dealer, bring your ECUs, and get the reflash swapped for a modest transfer fee. Disagree?


Meh... it's pretty rare that I buy anything with resale in mind. I had the mk1 for 10yrs and 150k miles. I knew I wouldn't get anything for it when I sold it and it didn't bother me at all. If I was to chip the RS I think $900 is a fair price for what I'm getting so I don't care that I can't resell it later and amortize the cost down to $450 or whatever.


----------



## gogogadget (Apr 14, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> The cost is directly related to r&d and volume.
> 
> A GTI is easy and sells billions. Cheap.
> A ttrs requires new tuning tools and no one has this car. A little more expensive.
> An s4 is nearly impossible to crack and not many have this car. Expensive.


How about the 2.0t guys... Why are we so left out


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Meh... it's pretty rare that I buy anything with resale in mind. I had the mk1 for 10yrs and 150k miles. I knew I wouldn't get anything for it when I sold it and it didn't bother me at all. If I was to chip the RS I think $900 is a fair price for what I'm getting so I don't care that I can't resell it later and amortize the cost down to $450 or whatever.


Fair enough.

Now, where are those stage 3 details?


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Hmm good question. The build threads on the UK forum have been quiet lately


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

LOL @ Thread.

"Wheres out tune bro?"
"Damnit I'd buy this right now if you guys had it!!"

Fast Forward:

"Well, why does it cost xxx?"
"Why can't I give it to a friend?"
"Why can't APR make it like xxx"

:screwy:


----------



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> The cost is directly related to r&d and volume.
> 
> A GTI is easy and sells billions. Cheap.
> A ttrs requires new tuning tools and no one has this car. A little more expensive.
> An s4 is nearly impossible to crack and not many have this car. Expensive.


 
I wondered why the S4 was so expensive...strange.

So the other part of my question was about the "program switching" option. When that is available, is it included in the $899 price?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

DrDomm said:


> I wondered why the S4 was so expensive...strange.


From another post:

R&D was light years more expensive and lengthy on the S4 than the TTRS.

The S4 uses a new ECU type: Continental Simos 8. 
The TT RS uses a "new" old ECU type: Bosch MED9 with Tuning Protection. 

We've worked with Bosch for over a decade. The TT RS uses an older operating system that was updated with new encryption. Getting in was and making new tools for this ECU was much easier and less expensive than the S4, however it was still difficult and required creating new tools to do so.

The S4 uses Simos 8 which is new and went uncracked by anyone in the world long before and after APR came on the scene with software. It was far more complex and expensive. It's still an unknown for many. 

Long story short, it was simply way more expensive and complex to crack and tune the B8 S4 and our pricing reflects that.




> So the other part of my question was about the "program switching" option. When that is available, is it included in the $899 price?


If you buy the software before program switching is available, all of the features and programs that will fit onto the ECU will be given to you for free, otherwise if you purchase the ECU after program switching is available, they will cost extra.


----------



## dogdrive (Oct 19, 2005)

joneze93tsi said:


> LOL @ Thread.
> 
> "Wheres out tune bro?"
> "Damnit I'd buy this right now if you guys had it!!"
> ...


Exactly my thought!


----------



## YYC Dubber (Jun 23, 2011)

*Awesome news*

of course happens when I´m on vacation


Will wait patiently for the 91 octane graphs.... dont get my car till May anyway.opcorn:

Hard to find 93 up here in chilly Alberta, Canada


----------



## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

In layman's terms, why is the new installation hardware needed for the TT-RS? It looks like a simple board with connectors that simply hook up to the ECU once pulled from the car. How is this different from using the OBD port? Has Audi/Bosch somehow limited what info can be sent through the OBD port and wiring? What kind of info can the dealer read/update from the OBD port, or do they too need to remove it for updates? Not doubting, just curious what exactly made this change necessary.


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

YYC Dubber said:


> of course happens when I´m on vacation
> 
> 
> Will wait patiently for the 91 octane graphs.... dont get my car till May anyway.opcorn:
> ...


Why does it matter what the 91 octane graphs are? All of the tuners will probably lose about the same percent performance going from 93 to 91.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

mtbscoTT said:


> In layman's terms, why is the new installation hardware needed for the TT-RS?


The new ECU has 1024 bit encryption, which even supercomputers cannot crack. 



> It looks like a simple board with connectors that simply hook up to the ECU once pulled from the car. How is this different from using the OBD port?


By connecting directly to the ECU, there are ways around the encryption. 



> Has Audi/Bosch somehow limited what info can be sent through the OBD port and wiring?


You can send the same info back and forth through the port as you always could, except the ECU will not allow new programming unless the ECU is presented with a 1028 bit key that's specific to the exact combination of bits within the ECU, which completely changes every time you change a bit. It's RAS 1024 bit encryption if you want to check it out on the googlnets. 



> What kind of info can the dealer read/update from the OBD port, or do they too need to remove it for updates? Not doubting, just curious what exactly made this change necessary.


The dealership can flash the ECU because the file they get from audi already has the RAS key generated for the exact file they are flashing. We could look at this RAS key all we want, but it doesn't matter because if you change 1 bit on the ECU, the key needs to be totally recalculated. It's also not as simple as comparing two or three ECU's in an attempt to reverse engineer how the key was generated. You simply would need to know the master key in order to do that.


----------



## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

Thanks for the explanation. I also spoke to someone at one of your local dealers this afternoon and he explained it to me in even more elementary terms that I could understand. He told me he had driven your test car and can't wait to do an install locally.


----------



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> If you buy the software before program switching is available, all of the features and programs that will fit onto the ECU will be given to you for free, otherwise if you purchase the ECU after program switching is available, they will cost extra.


So if I send you my ECU before program switching is available, I can then send it back or take it to a dealer to update it to have program switching when it's available for free?

But if I wait til it's available, I have to pay extra for it? I'm not sure that makes sense to me...other than enticing people to get the base software, even if program switching never is available.

I have 2 issues. I think the software is worth the cost with program switching...just to go back to stock for dealer visits. I'd go install it right now if both were available at a reputable dealer nearby. That's not the case. My closest dealer is 2.5 hours away. I'm interested in shipping my ECU, but not til the 3rd week in April when I'm away from my RS...but I'm assuming by then the shipping option will be gone.

This is slightly more complicated than I'd like. I'd be happy if APR committed to including program switching to stock in the price permanently, and if they kept the option of shipping them your ECU if there is no dealer within 60 miles.

BTW, can I assume that the program is not able to be overwritten at the dealer? Again, when flashing is so tedious (no local APR dealer and no flash tool) it makes this important.

Also, I was always under the impression that APR made different files for different octanes? It sounds like that is not the case.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

switching to stock mode i doubt is going to go unnoticed, i think you would have to flash original soft back on, go read whats going on with the S4's right now on audizine....

arin can you comment how much higher boost has been increased, 1-2 psi? etc and would it be a problem for high elevation places, such as 4000ft


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

DrDomm said:


> So if I send you my ECU before program switching is available, I can then send it back or take it to a dealer to update it to have program switching when it's available for free?


Yes sir!



> But if I wait til it's available, I have to pay extra for it?


Correct!



> I'm not sure that makes sense to me...other than enticing people to get the base software, even if program switching never is available.


You can look at it any way you want, but this is exactly what we did for the Audi A3 2.0 TSI, Audi A4 2.0 TFSI VL and Audi S4 3.0 TFSI.



> I have 2 issues. I think the software is worth the cost with program switching...just to go back to stock for dealer visits. I'd go install it right now if both were available at a reputable dealer nearby. That's not the case. My closest dealer is 2.5 hours away. I'm interested in shipping my ECU, but not til the 3rd week in April when I'm away from my RS...but I'm assuming by then the shipping option will be gone.


You can always ship the ECU. We'll never take away this option. Some people simply do not have a local APR dealer, so shipping will always be possible.



> This is slightly more complicated than I'd like. I'd be happy if APR committed to including program switching to stock in the price permanently, and if they kept the option of shipping them your ECU if there is no dealer within 60 miles.


We don't have any plans for that but as I mentioned, shipping directly to APR is always an option.



> BTW, can I assume that the program is not able to be overwritten at the dealer? Again, when flashing is so tedious (no local APR dealer and no flash tool) it makes this important.


The dealer can flash over the ECU if they have an update and usually you should allow them to do so. As far as I understand, they can't do this update without your permission, so if you really want, you can tell them no. Typically, you'll want the update, and we'll provide you with an update of our software that includes the updates they've made. The good thing is it seems they don't have many updates these days. The MK6 GTI's been around for years now and they're not updating those ECU's as far as I know.



> Also, I was always under the impression that APR made different files for different octanes? It sounds like that is not the case.


We do offer different files for different octanes. We have files for the following:

91 (R+M)/2
93 (R+M)/2
100 (R+M)/2
95 RON
98 RON
104 RON






tdi-bart said:


> arin can you comment how much higher boost has been increased, 1-2 psi? etc and would it be a problem for high elevation places, such as 4000ft


Boost is not a set number as the ECU is it's based on engine load and load is based on calculated mass airflow and mass airflow will change at different altitudes and ambient conditions. The ECU's also smart enough to not burn up the turbos at high altitude nor do we max out the turbos, especially on a stage 1 ECU upgrade. I'll see if I can gather some information from engineering to figure out approximately how much more boost pressure one will see, just keep in mind, it's not a set number so it will never be identical.


----------



## Dr. Bill (May 15, 2011)

Wow. Finally.

If I still had mine, I'd be knocking on the door at Goodspeed once they got the ability to flash the ECU there.

Should be an awesome upgrade!


----------



## 8J35R9 (Aug 22, 2011)

*<applause>*

The price is great.

The results are great.

And without a doubt...the service and support will be great.

:screwy:

If I would be willing to pay $600 for a GTI tune....then $1500 for the TTRS would be justifiable. Biggest plus being that it is a trustworthy tune.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

8J35R9 said:


> The price is great.
> 
> The results are great.
> 
> ...


 It's actually only $899, but I'm willing to make an exception and raise the price if that's what you want!


----------



## 8J35R9 (Aug 22, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> It's actually only $899, but I'm willing to make an exception and raise the price if that's what you want!


Well heck, then I'll take two. Would that double the amplitude of those curves on your graphy thing?

I did see the price. Just not a evry good rwiter.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Boost is not a set number as the ECU is it's based on engine load and load is based on calculated mass airflow and mass airflow will change at different altitudes and ambient conditions. The ECU's also smart enough to not burn up the turbos at high altitude nor do we max out the turbos, especially on a stage 1 ECU upgrade. I'll see if I can gather some information from engineering to figure out approximately how much more boost pressure one will see, just keep in mind, it's not a set number so it will never be identical.


yes as i understand the ecu is programmed to make a certain load, so boost will vary based on altitude, higher altitudes it will need more boost the make the same amount of load/power than lower altitudes... but i assume the increase in boost for stage1 is the same no matter what altitude you are at, but if you are saying at higher altitudes its not being maxed thats all i wanted to know really, 4000ft isnt that high yet, but 8000-10000ft hmmm

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-altitude-pressure-d_462.html

if i am reading that chart correctly, it means the turbo has to make 2 psi more boost at 4000ft than sea level, 10k ft would be 4.5 extra psi


----------



## gogogadget (Apr 14, 2007)

gogogadget said:


> How about the 2.0t guys... Why are we so left out


You seem to answer all the questions relating to the 2.5 tune, please PM or reply... Patiently waiting


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> The dealer can flash over the ECU if they have an update and usually you should allow them to do so. As far as I understand, they can't do this update without your permission, so if you really want, you can tell them no. Typically, you'll want the update, and we'll provide you with an update of our software that includes the updates they've made. The good thing is it seems they don't have many updates these days. The MK6 GTI's been around for years now and they're not updating those ECU's as far as I know.


Let me see if I understand this: if the TT has an APR reflash, and there is a software update that the dealer would like to apply and we say okay, then the dealer can reflash the car with the Audi update (overwriting the APR reflash) with no issues? 

And assuming that happens, then to get the APR reflash back, we'd have to go to an APR dealer and remove the ECU again (or remove it and mail it to APR headquarters), who would then have to reflash it again (assuming APR had the new file and had created an updated reflash based on it)?

Is APR willing to do the latter (reflashing ECUs that have been over-written by the dealer)?

And on a similar note...

Can APR dealers reflash completely back to stock over the OBD port if APR reflash is present (a subsequent reflash back to the APR file would need another ECU removal I assume)? And if so, would they be willing to reflash the car back to the APR file again at a later date for just the labor cost?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

gogogadget said:


> You seem to answer all the questions relating to the 2.5 tune, please PM or reply... Patiently waiting


I have specific TT 2.0L tune threads. We need a car in house to finalize marketing material before I can launch the software.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Let me see if I understand this: if the TT has an APR reflash, and there is a software update that the dealer would like to apply and we say okay, then the dealer can reflash the car with the Audi update (overwriting the APR reflash) with no issues?


Correct



> And assuming that happens, then to get the APR reflash back, we'd have to go to an APR dealer and remove the ECU again (or remove it and mail it to APR headquarters), who would then have to reflash it again (assuming APR had the new file and had created an updated reflash based on it)?


Correct



> Is APR willing to do the latter (reflashing ECUs that have been over-written by the dealer)?


Yes



> And on a similar note...
> 
> Can APR dealers reflash completely back to stock over the OBD port if APR reflash is present


Yes



> (a subsequent reflash back to the APR file would need another ECU removal I assume)?


Correct



> And if so, would they be willing to reflash the car back to the APR file again at a later date for just the labor cost?


Yes. 

Once you buy software, all updates, reflashes and typically all stages that don't change the turbo are also free. 

You don't need to show any proof of ownership to get a reflash... We just know.... even if the ECU was completely replaced.

It's up to the dealer on labor charges. We don't charge labor nor do we get a cut of any dealers charging labor.


----------



## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

So has anyone here done this yet? Lots of folks said they had money burning a hole in their pocket but haven't heard anyone's impressions yet. 
My local dealer told me late last week they now have the new tuning hardware "station" but will not have the TT-RS specific adaptors for "several months" still. They have offered to R and R the ECU at their shop and send to APR, going to check today to see how much that would add to the cost.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

I know quite a few people have the software already, especially overseas. 

034 Motorsport recently had a dyno day and [email protected] told me he was able to take a few people out in 034's TT RS with APR 91 octane software.


----------



## michalborz (May 14, 2004)

Me and my wife will be on a road trip and we will be driving through AL on abobout. April 11 dose APR welcomes walk in servic and can we get a tour of this state of the art facility


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

michalborz said:


> Me and my wife will be on a road trip and we will be driving through AL on abobout. April 11 dose APR welcomes walk in servic and can we get a tour of this state of the art facility


 Why yes we do! Just stop on in!


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

mtbscoTT said:


> My local dealer told me late last week they now have the new tuning hardware "station" but will not have the TT-RS specific adaptors for "several months" still.


 Anxious for the reflash but not going to remove the ECU due to method reqired, will just have to wait. * BUT, Arin, is "several months" mas accurate?*


----------



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

LongviewTx said:


> Anxious for the reflash but not going to remove the ECU due to method reqired, will just have to wait. * BUT, Arin, is "several months" mas accurate?*


 What method? Grinding a slot on the screw head to remove it? That is a bit of a nuisance. Otherwise, I think the removal looks pretty straight forward. It does look a little time consuming though. I wonder if APR dealers are going to charge extra for this "service", or if they view it as "included in the price".


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

LongviewTx said:


> Anxious for the reflash but not going to remove the ECU due to method reqired, will just have to wait. * BUT, Arin, is "several months" mas accurate?*


 The ECU removal method isn't going to change. Or are you referring to the reflash method before the custom harnesses exist? (is it a solder method or something?)


----------



## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

DrDomm said:


> I wonder if APR dealers are going to charge extra for this "service", or if they view it as "included in the price".


 I asked the local dealer for a quote and was told $899 for the software, 1 hour labor @ $105 for ECU R and R, plus tax, plus shipping to and from APR HQ. That's $1086 plus whatever the shipping is. A quick quote from UPS for insured overnight delivery back and forth is about $174! Yikes. At $1260 it will become perhaps the world's most expensive Stage I flash. I would really like to try it out but to be honest I'm balking at the cost.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

LongviewTx said:


> Anxious for the reflash but not going to remove the ECU due to method reqired, will just have to wait. * BUT, Arin, is "several months" mas accurate?*


 We anticipate it will be ready at the dealers in April. 

The ECU will need to come out no matter where you go unfortunately. 

We do replace the security screws with brand new ones if your vehicle has any!


----------



## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm feeling better already. Talked to the "other" APR dealer in town and he told me if I'll wait until they get all the necessary tools, he'll waive any labors and give me a "special" deal for being their guinea pig on a new model. Arin, please get the rest of the hardware out soon okay?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

mtbscoTT said:


> I'm feeling better already. Talked to the "other" APR dealer in town and he told me if I'll wait until they get all the necessary tools, he'll waive any labors and give me a "special" deal for being their guinea pig on a new model. Arin, please get the rest of the hardware out soon okay?


 We are working on it every day to make it seamless and perfect for our dealers!


----------



## Dr. Bill (May 15, 2011)

mtbscoTT said:


> I asked the local dealer for a quote and was told $899 for the software, 1 hour labor @ $105 for ECU R and R, plus tax, plus shipping to and from APR HQ. That's $1086 plus whatever the shipping is. A quick quote from UPS for insured overnight delivery back and forth is about $174! Yikes. At $1260 it will become perhaps the world's most expensive Stage I flash. I would really like to try it out but to be honest I'm balking at the cost.


 Look at it this way - how much would it cost to gain almost 40hp otherwise? People spend twice that amount for an exhaust that may gain 10hp on a good day and may actually lose torque. For the performance gain, it's very inexpensive. And about half the cost of an ECU flash on a 911 turbo. 

For my Cayman R, an ECU flash runs about $1300 and advertises 15hp gain. 

Like Einstein said - it's all relative.


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> None are. As stated, ECU's must be sent to APR for flashing until *dealers get the tools to flash in house. We anticipate in house flashing in April*.


 ok sorry, i was still under the impression that the above was going to be my perfered method. if the ecu has to be removed regardless and opened to facilitate the reflash, then i guess i should have already removed and ups'd to ALABAMA (hear forrest gump saying this to the evil berkley hippie).


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

LongviewTx said:


> ok sorry, i was still under the impression that the above was going to be my perfered method. if the ecu has to be removed regardless and opened to facilitate the reflash, then i guess i should have already removed and ups'd to ALABAMA (hear forrest gump saying this to the evil berkley hippie).


 Yeah, it unfortunately needs to be opened either way. 

BTW first thing I did when I moved down here was look for Greenbow, Alabama. I don't think it exists. :laugh:


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> Yeah, it unfortunately needs to be opened either way.
> 
> BTW first thing I did when I moved down here was look for Greenbow, Alabama. I don't think it exists. :laugh:


 hah! 

so, i am going to a track event this weekend to learn how to defeat the evil 911. 

when i return, the ecu is coming out. i do not want to wait any longer. just thought OBD II flash port was on much cleaner and safer method. and that's all i have to say about that.


----------



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Yeah, it unfortunately needs to be opened either way.


So, the ECU is opened? 

Anyway, I'm a little spooked by the whole oil pump chain noise thing. If I'm gonna need any engine work or new Audi ECU software, I'd wait before I got the APR flash.


----------



## michalborz (May 14, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Why yes we do! Just stop on in!


Arin I'm pretty sure since you released the software is rock solid but we going to put about 5000 miles in 3 weeks some of them in hot conditions some in high altitude mountain passes some in very remont parts of US with no cell coverage shoud I be worry driving with this flash?


----------



## walkwg (Sep 14, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> BTW first thing I did when I moved down here was look for Greenbow, Alabama. I don't think it exists. :laugh:


It exists only as a concept of rural south Alabama. 

Looking forward to meeting you tomorrow morning.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

DrDomm said:


> So, the ECU is opened?


Yes, all of the new ECUs require opening to flash. 




michalborz said:


> Arin I'm pretty sure since you released the software is rock solid but we going to put about 5000 miles in 3 weeks some of them in hot conditions some in high altitude mountain passes some in very remont parts of US with no cell coverage shoud I be worry driving with this flash?


You'll be fine! We have customers in extreme conditions already and the ECU is equipped with pressure and temperature sensors so if something's too extreme, everything's backed off. 



walkwg said:


> It exists only as a concept of rural south Alabama.
> 
> Looking forward to meeting you tomorrow morning.



:laugh:


----------



## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

Two questions, then:

1. Does the timing chain ECU update (I'm sure you've seen the thread) conflict with the APR flash? Should effected users get the ECU update first, then get an APR flash? Or will the APR flash overwrite the existing code?

2. When can we expect the TTRS RSC exhaust to ship?

Danke!

- Jeremy -


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

- Jeremy - said:


> Two questions, then:
> 
> 1. Does the timing chain ECU update (I'm sure you've seen the thread) conflict with the APR flash? Should effected users get the ECU update first, then get an APR flash? Or will the APR flash overwrite the existing code?


You'll need to direct me to the thread, I don't know what this is. 



> 2. When can we expect the TTRS RSC exhaust to ship?
> 
> Danke!
> 
> - Jeremy -


I believe April.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> You'll need to direct me to the thread, I don't know what this is.


This is the FW rev I was mentioning... Q-0020 vs. R-0010.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

If you're vehicle calls for an updated flash from Audi, just get it and then go get flashed by APR. Otherwise, if you get the flash, and are flashed over by audi, just come on back and we'll give you the latest updates for free (since you already bought the flash).


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> If you're vehicle calls for an updated flash from Audi, just get it and then go get flashed by APR. Otherwise, if you get the flash, and are flashed over by audi, just come on back and we'll give you the latest updates for free (since you already bought the flash).


I assume someone needs to get you the R-0010 flash file as a base for a set of APR changes over top of it, otherwise folks are going to lose their timing chain rattle fix.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> I assume someone needs to get you the R-0010 flash file as a base for a set of APR changes over top of it, otherwise folks are going to lose their timing chain rattle fix.


No, we don't ever flash anyone with an older or newer file than what's currently on the ECU. If we did, customers may run into computability issues if hardware or software on other controllers was changed in conduction with the updated audi software. 

Every time there is an update, we just get the new software from audi and merge it with our changes.

Some of this may sound confusing, but you don't need to worry about it. It sounds like you're a software guy.... trust me, we have everything covered in this area. All you need to do is say "Me want software" and we give you the correct stuff. :laugh:


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> No, we don't ever flash anyone with an older or newer file than what's currently on the ECU. If we did, customers may run into computability issues if hardware or software on other controllers was changed in conduction with the updated audi software.
> 
> Every time there is an update, we just get the new software from audi and merge it with our changes.
> 
> Some of this may sound confusing, but you don't need to worry about it. It sounds like you're a software guy.... trust me, we have everything covered in this area. All you need to do is say "Me want software" and we give you the correct stuff. :laugh:


Sweet. So when a local APR dealer reads the stock program, is their APR software tool package empowered to auto-generate a new tune based on that stock program if it's a different rev than you guys have ever seen?

I'm assuming not (that would be a rather dangerous thing to automatically do indeed). In that case, I assume that new stock file gets sent to APR, and then one of your wizards over there confirms the appropriate patches to make it a Stage 1 profile, and send it back to the local APR dealer. Correct?

If so, then I'd imagine that the latter could be a longer process... perhaps a day or two at best, which is and important factor when your car's ECU is removed for open heart surgery.

You said we don't have to worry about it... so many you could just clarify what's involved if there is a rev of software on the stock ECU that APR has never seen before?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Sweet. So when a local APR dealer reads the stock program, is their APR software tool package empowered to auto-generate a new tune based on that stock program if it's a different rev than you guys have ever seen?


They read the code, we analyze it and make the changes. When it's finished we let them know. They don't need a special tool to do this either. Every APR dealer can read the code now. 



> I'm assuming not (that would be a rather dangerous thing to automatically do indeed). In that case, I assume that new stock file gets sent to APR, and then one of your wizards over there confirms the appropriate patches to make it a Stage 1 profile, and send it back to the local APR dealer. Correct?


correctamundo!



> If so, then I'd imagine that the latter could be a longer process... perhaps a day or two at best, which is and important factor when your car's ECU is removed for open heart surgery.


I believe TT RS ECU's are simple. It's usually on an hour or so if I'm not mistaken.



> You said we don't have to worry about it... so many you could just clarify what's involved if there is a rev of software on the stock ECU that APR has never seen before?


ECU comes to APR or APR Dealer. 

ECU is scanned. 

New Revision Found. 

Code is sent to APR Engineers. 

APR Engineers analyse and merge to make a new file.

New code is flashed to ECU.


----------



## joek81 (Jun 8, 2011)

Arin,

I had my TTRS booked in for a stage 1 flash next Tuesday and have now been told by the dealer that APR is not allowing them to flash just yet. He initially thought that he had received all the new tools but he doesn't have the "additional CCD for programming with the UPD which has not been released yet". Is this the tool that is scheduled to be available by April?

Cheers,

Joe



---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?svqi12


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

joek81 said:


> Arin,
> 
> I had my TTRS booked in for a stage 1 flash next Tuesday and have now been told by the dealer that APR is not allowing them to flash just yet. He initially thought that he had received all the new tools but he doesn't have the "additional CCD for programming with the UPD which has not been released yet". Is this the tool that is scheduled to be available by April?
> 
> ...


yes


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

so has anyone got the chip and is able to report back?? apple chilli is the only person?


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 7, 1999)

I heard of one person here locally that has it and through a second-hand source they said driving the car is like playing a video game now... in other words.. it's that fast w/the chip.

I haven't driven one(chipped) yet so nothing firsthand from me unfortunately.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Here's a review. 

http://forums.quattroworld.com/tt2/msgs/18733.phtml


I have a couple more reviews around the world. It seems most TT RS US customers are not on the forums much, probably due to the rareness of the car.


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Here's a review.
> 
> http://forums.quattroworld.com/tt2/msgs/18733.phtml
> 
> ...



Thats me!


Guys, for those in doubt, don't look at the figures at redline and make assumptions.
This program completely changes the car into an ANIMAL. Somewhere between 2500-3000rpm's you get forcibly held into your seat, and you really have to watch the tach as redline will come on way faster than you remember.

I've had 2 quick tests of the changes:

*Mexico test track*
40-140 vs a good friend of mine with a 11sec F-Body. (Traps between 117-118).
He had some traction issues down low, but could never close any distance. Needless to say, he was FLOORED that it was just a 2.5L with a "canned" tune.

*Local 1/4 mile track*
3 Quick passes at a local drag strip that opened for a few hours on the first day of spring. During this, I learned 2 things: 1. I have no idea how to launch this car (B8 DSG Spoiled Me). 2. Wheel hop sucks. Anyway, ended up with 12.4 @ 115.7 w/ high 1.9 60's. :banghead: I was tempted to put a ringer in the seat and see 11's & prob another 1-2mph, but 1/4 mile performance isn't really a priority for me, and only go maybe once a year to hang out with friends.

I found both results to be very positive given a tune & 93 octane pump gas and in the 70's.
I'm working on doing something about the primary cat, and trying some race gas on 93 octane mode until APR gets me the program switching functions. I'm really happy with the trap speed given 93 and the crappy driver.

You seriously won't believe it is the same car when it adapts!

Thanks Again Arin!


----------



## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

115.7mph isn't shabby at all. With another off the shelf tune I used to have in my car (MC-Chip) the best mph I could manage was 111mph. 12.6 though.

So nearly 4mph more than an equivalent "400hp" tune. Very impressive!



joneze93tsi said:


> Thats me!
> Anyway, ended up with 12.4 @ 115.7 w/ high 1.9 60's. :banghead: I was tempted to put a ringer in the seat and see 11's & prob another 1-2mph, but 1/4 mile performance isn't really a priority for me, and only go maybe once a year to hang out with friends.


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

jibbed said:


> 115.7mph isn't shabby at all. With another off the shelf tune I used to have in my car (MC-Chip) the best mph I could manage was 111mph. 12.6 though.
> 
> So nearly 4mph more than an equivalent "400hp" tune. Very impressive!



Thanks!

I can't wait to put an exhaust on and try some good gas! :laugh:


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

I got a ride in an APR stage 1 TT-RS and it felt damn fast.


----------



## YYC Dubber (Jun 23, 2011)

joneze93tsi said:


> Thats me!
> 
> 
> Guys, for those in doubt, don't look at the figures at redline and make assumptions.
> ...


well... that just made my 8 more weeks of wait all the harder!!!!:beer:


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

YYC Dubber said:


> well... that just made my 8 more weeks of wait all the harder!!!!:beer:


It's worth it!

Wish we had more exhaust options available!
IE: A nice de-catted downpipe replacement that keeps the factory catback. Probably just going to run de-catted factory downpipe for now.


----------



## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

There's a guy over in the UK that's just done that (Decatted it), and ran an 11.3 in his S-Tronic spec'd car.

Looking at the exhaust system - it's all pretty good from factory!



joneze93tsi said:


> It's worth it!
> 
> Wish we had more exhaust options available!
> IE: A nice de-catted downpipe replacement that keeps the factory catback. Probably just going to run de-catted factory downpipe for now.


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

jibbed said:


> There's a guy over in the UK that's just done that (Decatted it), and ran an 11.3 in his S-Tronic spec'd car.
> 
> Looking at the exhaust system - it's all pretty good from factory!



Yes, "MitchyRS". He is on here and was kind enough to lend some help via PM.
I am going to start off by modeling after his simple build, K&N, De-Cat & Flash. If it's good enough enough for 123mph traps, it's good enough for me!

I'd be happy to buy a large catless downpipe, if it could be mated to the stock catback however!


----------



## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

Nice! Definitely an effective route. That gearbox is probably worth 3/4 of a second down the strip though.

Even if you can get a high 11 @ 120ish - that's still pretty impressive.

I've got a milltek race system to refit to my car, so keen to see how much extra power that free's up.



joneze93tsi said:


> Yes, "MitchyRS". He is on here and was kind enough to lend some help via PM.
> I am going to start off by modeling after his simple build, K&N, De-Cat & Flash. If it's good enough enough for 123mph traps, it's good enough for me!
> 
> I'd be happy to buy a large catless downpipe, if it could be mated to the stock catback however!


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

joneze93tsi said:


> I'd be happy to buy a large catles downpipe, if it could be mated to the stock catback however!


Working on it!


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> working on it!


Not sure if SRS, or waiting to insert "2 weeks" Joke.


----------



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Arin, what's the deal with the "Left Foot Brake" feature? APR's website mentions that the stock software disables throttle when brake is applied. Am I reading that right? It seems that I can brake and blip the throttle fine. What exactly does this feature do, and is included with the software upgrade?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

DrDomm said:


> Arin, what's the deal with the "Left Foot Brake" feature? APR's website mentions that the stock software disables throttle when brake is applied. Am I reading that right? It seems that I can brake and blip the throttle fine. What exactly does this feature do, and is included with the software upgrade?


Hold your foot on the brake and the gas at the same time and the engine will cut power after a moment.

In motorsport it's handy to brake with your left foot while not coming off the throttle. This reenables that ability.


----------



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Hold your foot on the brake and the gas at the same time and the engine will cut power after a moment.
> 
> In motorsport it's handy to brake with your left foot while not coming off the throttle. This reenables that ability.


I will try it. So is this something included with the standard stage 1 upgrade? I couldn't tell from how it was worded on the website...said it was "available", but didn't use the word "included".


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

DrDomm said:


> I will try it. So is this something included with the standard stage 1 upgrade? I couldn't tell from how it was worded on the website...said it was "available", but didn't use the word "included".


If you hit the brakes first and then hit the throttle, it works just fine stock (this is needed to enable "heel and toe" braking / throttle during down-shifting). The converse is where it cuts out.


----------



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Marty said:


> If you hit the brakes first and then hit the throttle, it works just fine stock (this is needed to enable "heel and toe" braking / throttle during down-shifting). The converse is where it cuts out.


Oh, so you can't just tap the brakes while on throttle to settle the car. Not a huge deal unless you track it.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

DrDomm said:


> I will try it. So is this something included with the standard stage 1 upgrade? I couldn't tell from how it was worded on the website...said it was "available", but didn't use the word "included".


Included.


----------



## bsmack (Oct 16, 2008)

Might have already been answered, but if I ship my ECU overnight to APR, does APR pay to overnight it back to me or is that an additional cost? Might have to garage my car for a few days to get in on the sale!


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

bsmack said:


> Might have already been answered, but if I ship my ECU overnight to APR, does APR pay to overnight it back to me or is that an additional cost? Might have to garage my car for a few days to get in on the sale!


 Shipping is up to the customers. We can ship it any method you like from ground to next day air.


----------



## bsmack (Oct 16, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Shipping is up to the customers. We can ship it any method you like from ground to next day air.


 Meh, $200+ for shipping doesn't sit well with me. Have you had any internal discussion on extending the sale for TTRS customers since dealerships do not yet have hardware? Everyone in my area says it'll be another 2-3 weeks.


----------



## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

bsmack said:


> Meh, $200+ for shipping doesn't sit well with me. Have you had any internal discussion on extending the sale for TTRS customers since dealerships do not yet have hardware? Everyone in my area says it'll be another 2-3 weeks.


 Yeah, hate to keep beating the dead horse, but when will my local dealer have the tools for my car?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

We are working on it now and expect the tools to be out in April. I'll have more details in the coming weeks.


----------



## Trbofly (Mar 20, 2012)

More important to me is the program switching. I love what APR stands for, but the switching seems to be a core need for me. GIAC is currently offering it, and I am finding myself more and more interested. 

Is this realistically going to happen in the next month or so?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Trbofly said:


> More important to me is the program switching. I love what APR stands for, but the switching seems to be a core need for me. GIAC is currently offering it, and I am finding myself more and more interested.
> 
> Is this realistically going to happen in the next month or so?


 From what I'm told, yes. They were in the final stages of it but the engineer working on the project was pulled to another one and will continue once he's finished.


----------



## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> We are working on it now and expect the tools to be out in April. I'll have more details in the coming weeks.


 Don't forget about the international customers, too!  

I plan to get Stage 1 (or 2?) and the RSC exhaust when they're available in Germany (or the UK). 

- Jeremy -


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

- Jeremy - said:


> Don't forget about the international customers, too!
> 
> I plan to get Stage 1 (or 2?) and the RSC exhaust when they're available in Germany (or the UK).
> 
> - Jeremy -


 What year is your car. Most European TT RS's are OBDII port flashable.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

i think his is US spec he's rambo or something


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> i think his is US spec he's rambo or something


 Ha, gotcha! :laugh:


----------



## michalborz (May 14, 2004)

We would like to thank APR for making our day today, it was an amazing experience. Everyone we talked to was polite and professional (special thanks to *Ryan*), must say, it is a pleasure doing business with you. 
As far as the tune, we drove mostly on the highway, but had a chance to feel the power getting from the on-ramp to the highway.......honestly the on-ramps are to long now, half way through the ramp I saw triple digits... 
Leaving APR made me feel like I have new car again 
Within next few days we will enjoy Tail of the Dragon, by then we will have a better feeling of the new tune


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

michalborz said:


> We would like to thank APR for making our day today, it was an amazing experience. Everyone we talked to was polite and professional (special thanks to *Ryan*), must say, it is a pleasure doing business with you.
> As far as the tune, we drove mostly on the highway, but had a chance to feel the power getting from the on-ramp to the highway.......honestly the on-ramps are to long now, half way through the ramp I saw triple digits...
> Leaving APR made me feel like I have new car again
> Within next few days we will enjoy Tail of the Dragon, by then we will have a better feeling of the new tune


 :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## Trbofly (Mar 20, 2012)

Whats the final word on TD1 codes being thrown on a ttrs?


----------



## AppleChilli (Jan 10, 2012)

michalborz said:


> Leaving APR made me feel like I have new car again


 My sentiments exactly! I cannot imagine what stage II & III will feel like?!


----------



## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

Trbofly said:


> Whats the final word on TD1 codes being thrown on a ttrs?


 The final word has been stated multiple times. The older style ECU of the TTRS does not collect TD1 codes.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Trbofly said:


> Whats the final word on TD1 codes being thrown on a ttrs?


 No TD1 codes on the TTRS.


----------



## Trbofly (Mar 20, 2012)

mtbscoTT said:


> The final word has been stated multiple times. The older style ECU of the TTRS does not collect TD1 codes.


 Much appreciated. Thanks


----------



## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> No TD1 codes on the TTRS.


 Seems interesting that Audi would go through the trouble of encrypting this old-style ECU without adding something like the TD1 code to it. Either they were too cocky and thought no one could break the encryption, or they've hidden something that the Tuners aren't seeing. 

- Jeremy -


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

- Jeremy - said:


> Seems interesting that Audi would go through the trouble of encrypting this old-style ECU without adding something like the TD1 code to it. Either they were too cocky and thought no one could break the encryption, or they've hidden something that the Tuners aren't seeing.
> 
> - Jeremy -


 It's simply an old ECU type.


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

bsmack said:


> Have you had any internal discussion on extending the sale for TTRS customers since dealerships do not yet have hardware?


Arin:

We are now down to a one-week window of opportunity for the Spring sale (if we flash at the dealers). Any ideas on if all dealers will be receiving their tools by this weekend *or* if you would be willing to allow us (TT-RS owners) the exception of paying now for stage 1 until dealers have the capability to flash?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

LongviewTx said:


> Arin:
> 
> We are now down to a one-week window of opportunity for the Spring sale (if we flash at the dealers). Any ideas on if all dealers will be receiving their tools by this weekend *or* if you would be willing to allow us (TT-RS owners) the exception of paying now for stage 1 until dealers have the capability to flash?


I don't have that information yet but I'll see what can be done.


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> I don't have that information *yet* but I'll see what can be done.


i heard today that all the dealers are receiving their tools tomorrow. is this true Arin?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

No


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

maybe it's just me, but it seems apr stg1 makes more power than the giac chip + exhaust + cat delete + intercooler... comparing the dyno runs at the wheels, both start off close to each other in terms of WHP stock (+/- 2hp), but apr seems to get 20 more...


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

tdi-bart said:


> maybe it's just me, but it seems apr stg1 makes more power than the giac chip + exhaust + cat delete + intercooler... comparing the dyno runs at the wheels, both start off close to each other in terms of WHP stock (+/- 2hp), but apr seems to get 20 more...


Except you can't compare results from different dynos. Someone needs to plot the percentage gain in power across the range for both tunes and compare those results, that'd be a bit better comparison.


----------



## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

tdi-bart said:


> maybe it's just me, but it seems apr stg1 makes more power than the giac chip + exhaust + cat delete + intercooler... comparing the dyno runs at the wheels, both start off close to each other in terms of WHP stock (+/- 2hp), but apr seems to get 20 more...


It could be that the other mods "find" horsepower that marginalizes the ECU gains. For example, an intake may give you +10 hp. A new exhaust may give you +15 hp. And an ECU tune might give you +35 hp. But all of them together aren't going to give you +60 hp. You might get +45 instead or something. I don't know why. It just seems to be the case with all car mods.

- Jeremy -


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

It's a shame there isn't a GIAC TT-RS in my area.
I'd be happy to make some "comparative runs". :laugh:


----------



## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

Arin, sale ends in a couple of days, did your local dealers receive their tools yet? specifically ELM in my town? Thanks.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Except you can't compare results from different dynos. Someone needs to plot the percentage gain in power across the range for both tunes and compare those results, that'd be a bit better comparison.


ohrly? did you miss how each dyno produced the same stock whp within 2 hp?


----------



## Trbofly (Mar 20, 2012)

Bump. Got money in my pocket. 

Will the sale be honored when we can actually get the tune?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

mtbscoTT said:


> Arin, sale ends in a couple of days, did your local dealers receive their tools yet? specifically ELM in my town? Thanks.


They don't, but we've extended the sale.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

does the sale apply to canada?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> does the sale apply to canada?


Our canadian importers set pricing in their own market. Give them a call! www.goapr.com/dealer/


----------



## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

dealers don't have the tools, i think the sale is just meant for people who are going to send their ecu's directly to apr in the mail.


----------



## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

tdi-bart said:


> does the sale apply to canada?


it does, but the dealer i spoke with charges an install fee of $100. plus they don't have the tools yet anyways.


----------



## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> They don't, but we've extended the sale.


Is there a good day to send it in or anytime before 1pm m-f?
Thinking of planning on it next week, just need to time it right so i have minimal car downtime with the shipping.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

canuckttrs said:


> Is there a good day to send it in or anytime before 1pm m-f?
> Thinking of planning on it next week, just need to time it right so i have minimal car downtime with the shipping.


Send it as early as possible.

We get ECUs in at 9 AM typically and ship them out by 5PM. 

The cut off time is 1 PM to get it out the same day if it happens to not come in at 9 AM.

Just make sure all of the paper work is filled out correctly with all of your contact information and return shipping method to ensure the fastest turn around time.


----------



## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Send it as early as possible.
> 
> We get ECUs in at 9 AM typically and ship them out by 5PM.
> 
> ...


Can you recommend a shipper? I prefer Fedex as i'm in canada but let me know which one gets it to you the earliest.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

canuckttrs said:


> Can you recommend a shipper? I prefer Fedex as i'm in canada but let me know which one gets it to you the earliest.


Almost all of our shipments out the door are through UPS.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

canuckttrs said:


> it does, but the dealer i spoke with charges an install fee of $100. plus they don't have the tools yet anyways.


what city are you in, they better waive that fee if i just drop the ecu off for them...


----------



## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Almost all of our shipments out the door are through UPS.


If you lived in Canada you would know what it really means to have a burning hot supernova hatred for UPS. But i digress. I'll try Fedex.


----------



## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

tdi-bart said:


> what city are you in, they better waive that fee if i just drop the ecu off for them...


near vancouver. i'm sure they would, you're just going to have to wait until they get the proper equipment to do it.


----------



## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

tdi-bart said:


> ohrly? did you miss how each dyno produced the same stock whp within 2 hp?


Oh boy, here we go. As John accurately pointed out, you guys all know that you can't compare absolute numbers from one Dyno to another. Relative differences measured on a single Dyno on different days is even a weak measure but at least more representative of reality. AWE is very professional and upfront about their measurements and observations. The baseline of my car on their Dyno was 360hp crank and 305hp at the wheel, the APR baseline was something like 375hp crank and 325hp at the wheel, if I remember right. They use that hub mounted dyno, so I'm not certain if that is still considered "at the wheel" or not. I'm not one for getting into the "my chip is better" arguement. They are all researched and developed by professionals that know what they're doing and aside from some of the functionality differences, the end results are much more similar than they are different. Having said all that, I'm happy to share my experience and observations thus far on my current setup.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

AWE Dyno:

Before
317 TQ 323 HP 

After
355 TQ 355 HP

Peak to Peak:
TQ Increase:10.70%
HP Increase:9.01%

Max Gains: 51 FT-LBS and 43 HP

http://www.awe-tuning.com/images/mar..._giac_ttrs.jpg

APR Dyno:

Before
349 TQ 325 HP

After
407 TQ 370 HP

Peak to Peak:
TQ Increase: 14.25%
HP Increase: 12.16%

Max Gains: 79 FT-LBS and 73 HP

http://www.goapr.com/includes/img/pr...s_s1_93_cw.gif

That's a big difference when comparing the delta between stock and chipped. Every dyno will read differently, so comparing peak figures between the two is often inaccurate, but if you compare the delta you can see there's a rather large difference between the two!


----------



## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

I must be missing something. Look at the first page graphs on this thread.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Black BeauTTy said:


> I must be missing something. Look at the first page graphs on this thread.


Now I'm confused. What do you mean?


----------



## J662 (Dec 8, 2011)

This thread is confusing. I have one simple question though: 

Where do I go to get a clean install/remap for APR Stage 1? I live in San Diego. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Now I'm confused. What do you mean?


 Doesn't the dyno plot show exactly what I said...375hp stock at baseline? Maybe I'm not reading it correctly, but that is what I was referring to. I have no idea where TDI's numbers came from, the links are dead. I just went by the info presented in this thread. My car "only" did 360hp at baseline on the Dyno at AWE. I suspect the difference is more Dyno variation than actual car variation but who knows, maybe you guys got a hot one from the factory somehow!


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

that is a graph showing crank numbers (375) 

if you goto the apr website, they have a graph showing power at the wheels, which was not posted in this thread... and that is the graph i got 325whp from to compare against the 323whp awe got


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Black BeauTTy said:


> Doesn't the dyno plot show exactly what I said...375hp stock at baseline? Maybe I'm not reading it correctly, but that is what I was referring to. I have no idea where TDI's numbers came from, the links are dead. I just went by the info presented in this thread. My car "only" did 360hp at baseline on the Dyno at AWE. I suspect the difference is more Dyno variation than actual car variation but who knows, maybe you guys got a hot one from the factory somehow!


 
It looks like the links got cut off. 

Here's the wheel data graph vs what appears the wheel data graph from the other company. I believe he was comparing the difference as number and percentage gains between stock an chipped.


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

New Best ET & Trap Today. 
Still can't launch for ****. Made 3 passes and called it a day. 

Density Altitude: 1437 feet 
Relative Density: 95.86 % 

ET: 12.29 
Trap: 116.2 

Mods: APR 93 Octane Flash & Milltek Secondary Cat Delete. 

DEAR AARON: PROVIDE ME WITH CATLESS DOWNPIPE & 100 OCTANE FILE ASAP, THANKS!!!!


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

joneze93tsi said:


> New Best ET & Trap Today.
> Still can't launch for ****. Made 3 passes and called it a day.
> 
> Density Altitude: 1437 feet
> ...


 Nice work! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

hmm no 11's? do 7k and drop it like it's hot, it will hook you will see haha 

but really i dump it around 4-5k and it takes off so hard... 

how would you say the chip compares to stock? also cat delete, noticeable diff in power or no?


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> hmm no 11's? do 7k and drop it like it's hot, it will hook you will see haha
> 
> but really i dump it around 4-5k and it takes off so hard...
> 
> how would you say the chip compares to stock? also cat delete, noticeable diff in power or no?


 Not sure on test pipe power honestly, other dyno's show 7-10hp on stock software, no idea on chipped cars. 

As far as the software goes, it's like flipping a ballistic missile switch. No comparison at all, night and day. I have a "low profile" gasket that seals the bay to the hood/windshield area. That & the added boost make the turbo & BPV noises loud as hell. It's like driving a totally different car now. 

Cant wait to fully de-cat and try the 100 octane tune.


----------



## MitchyRS (Sep 14, 2011)

12.29 @ 116.2 isn't a bad effort. What was your 60ft time. You should be aiming for 1.7x's 

Tyre pressures low, not high. F 28 R 26 (Hot) 

As to secondary cat bypass, doubtful they make any power, a couple of horsepower at most, they are more like noise suppressors rather than a power sapping restriction. The main culprit is in the downpipe. Get rid of that cat, dial in a bit more timing (not boost) and bobs your uncle. You should increase trap speed by another 2mph and cut the 1/4 down by around 2/10. You will easily get into 11's with some higher octane fuel, decent 1.7x launch, and a little weight out the car. Front passenger seat - 35kg, 5 min in out job. 

Good efforts though.


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Thanks Mitchy. 

I was about to gut the primary cat, but APR is supposed to be releasing a nice large catless downpipe that will mate with the stock cat-back. Figured I'd hold onto it in case my region decides to do emissions testing in the future. 

Huge difference this time launching vs the first time. 

Had about 33-35psi in the tires vs 40psi+ 
Had the car on non-s (softer magride!) 
Left at 4-5 vs 5-6. 

Only make 3 passes 1 1.7 and 2 1.8's. 

I'm done with drag racing for now. Rest of the season will be Auto-X and maybe a road course or two. I figure by the fall 1/4 mile days it will be cool, I'll have the cat sorted out, good fuel & 100octane file and less weight.


----------



## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

Great times Joneze!  What was your MPH at mid-track? Good job in any case!


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

jibbed said:


> Great times Joneze!  What was your MPH at mid-track? Good job in any case!


 1/8th MPH was consistent 91.2 - 91.4


----------



## 32vSC (Oct 11, 2009)

Black BeauTTy said:


> Oh boy, here we go. As John accurately pointed out, you guys all know that you can't compare absolute numbers from one Dyno to another. Relative differences measured on a single Dyno on different days ...


 Another variation is the correction factors used. 
And another variation is simple run-to-run measurement repeatability.


----------



## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

Nice! 

You definitely got most out of the run I'd think. 1.7sec 60ft is pretty good... 

Very interesting observation around leaving the line with S-Mode off (And magride). Did you compare with/without? 



joneze93tsi said:


> 1/8th MPH was consistent 91.2 - 91.4


----------



## YYC Dubber (Jun 23, 2011)

Black BeauTTy said:


> Oh boy, here we go. As John accurately pointed out, you guys all know that you can't compare absolute numbers from one Dyno to another. Relative differences measured on a single Dyno on different days is even a weak measure but at least more representative of reality. AWE is very professional and upfront about their measurements and observations. The baseline of my car on their Dyno was 360hp crank and 305hp at the wheel, the APR baseline was something like 375hp crank and 325hp at the wheel, if I remember right. They use that hub mounted dyno, so I'm not certain if that is still considered "at the wheel" or not. I'm not one for getting into the "my chip is better" arguement. They are all researched and developed by professionals that know what they're doing and aside from some of the functionality differences, the end results are much more similar than they are different. Having said all that, I'm happy to share my experience and observations thus far on my current setup.


 
best real world test will be back to back Vbox comparison runs. 
30-130 mph runs and in gear acceleration runs (eg 4th gear 60-80, 5th gear 60-100) 


0-60 and 1/4 mile times won't work for comparison because we dont have DSG trannies to eliminate driver technique from the equation.


----------



## Trbofly (Mar 20, 2012)

Arin, 

2 questions for you. 

1 is Stage 2 tuning available yet? 
2 what is the absolute minimum needed to support a stage 2 tune. Would a downpipe be sufficient?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Trbofly said:


> Arin,
> 
> 2 questions for you.
> 
> ...


 Just beta testing a few things but our intake and exhaust are almost ready. When they are, we'll write software.


----------



## Trbofly (Mar 20, 2012)

So I would need th.e full exauhst and intake to hit stage 2. Understood. 

Is switching going to actually happen, or is it one of those things you are striving for that may not pay out. 

About to call my local apr shop today, and that is th.e only thing holding me back. 

Since GIAC doesn't support the iPhone that is.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Trbofly said:


> So I would need th.e full exauhst and intake to hit stage 2. Understood.


 That's not set in stone. It probably will only require a downpipe. 



> Is switching going to actually happen, or is it one of those things you are striving for that may not pay out.


 Engineering says yes it will happen.


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

Arin: 

Can we get an update from you on the current anticipated delivery of "flash tools" to your dealers for the TT-RS, please?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

LongviewTx said:


> Arin:
> 
> Can we get an update from you on the current anticipated delivery of "flash tools" to your dealers for the TT-RS, please?


 Probably a couple weeks. Production was machining tools the last time I checked.


----------



## Trbofly (Mar 20, 2012)

Are we any closer to the dealers being able to flash a TTRS? Once again, really, really interested


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Trbofly said:


> Are we any closer to the dealers being able to flash a TTRS? Once again, really, really interested


Yes sir! Tools were cut, circuit boards printed, and software written. Just wrapping it all up.


----------



## Trbofly (Mar 20, 2012)

Any idea who the first dealer to get it in Colorado will be?


----------



## Trbofly (Mar 20, 2012)

*Checking in*

Hey Arin,

Just checking in to see how close we are to having the tune at a local shop. 

Thanks


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Trbofly said:


> Hey Arin,
> 
> Just checking in to see how close we are to having the tune at a local shop.
> 
> Thanks


Closer every day!

Here's DPP (DirectPort Programming), The UPD (Universal Programming Device), the CCD (Computer Clamping Device), Positioning Plate A (For TT RS Style ECUs) and ECU Interface A (For TT RS Style ECUs).


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

Arin:

We trust you survived SoWo and are still functioning on all cylinders.

Can you obtain an update for us on the distribution of the flash tools to your dealers, please?

I completed my third track event this past weekend and have loved the TT-RS as an OEM package. But, it would be nice to have that extra punch on the straights where some of the more powerful vettes have a bit of an edge. Next scheduled event is in July. I'm hoping to be back with that extra power and an APR sticker on the rear window (+ 5 HP I've heard).

Thanks


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

LongviewTx said:


> Arin:
> 
> We trust you survived SoWo and are still functioning on all cylinders.
> 
> ...


Speaking with the engineers they are still working on it. Right now, I really don't have any other updates to give. As soon as we are ready to start shipping, I'll let everyone know.


----------



## joek81 (Jun 8, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Speaking with the engineers they are still working on it. Right now, I really don't have any other updates to give. As soon as we are ready to start shipping, I'll let everyone know.


Any updates on availability Arin?




---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?fy32kp


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

hellloooo

so how is that flashing hardware coming or not coming


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> hellloooo
> 
> so how is that flashing hardware coming or not coming


It's going well. We'll be flashing TTRS's at waterfest, labor free. 

Dealers will have the tools soon. We are shooting for a release in the not too distant future after waterfest. 

Oh, and if you stop by the APR website, you can get a sneak peak into the stage 2 power figures...

http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_25tfsi_ttrs.html


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> It's going well. We'll be flashing TTRS's at waterfest, labor free.
> 
> Dealers will have the tools soon. We are shooting for a release in the not too distant future after waterfest.
> 
> Oh, and if you stop by the APR website, you can get a sneak peak into the stage 2 power figures...


Will stage2 require an intake or just the turbo-back exhaust?


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

on the chart it says just exhaust, i will be happy with 420 with just a decat :thumbup:

how about a waterfest closer to seattle beginning of august?


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> It's going well. We'll be flashing TTRS's at waterfest, labor free.
> 
> Dealers will have the tools soon. We are shooting for a release in the not too distant future after waterfest.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing! Looking forward to seeing some awesome pics of all the quality RSC turboback exhaust hardware.

But the darn monkey who is in charge of plotting technical data is at it again with those stage 2 plots... he changed the Y-axis scale between the stage 1 and stage 2 plots, making it impossible to click back and forth between them to see how the curves changed!

And don't get me started on the actual grid choices... the stage 2 plot uses Y-axis grid ticks of 16 hp, and x-axis grid ticks of 212 RPM. I challenge you to quickly read from the plot how much torque the car is making at 5500 RPM. Who comes up with this stuff? :screwy:

You guys execute the tunes and hardware so well, so it's just surprising that you don't execute some of your most critical communication (the power curves) at the same level.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

thats what happens when you use iChart, it just looks pretty thats about it :laugh:


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

So, anyone want to know what it's like to drive one of the APR Stage III TTRS Development Vehicles?






We just want to thank The Smoking Tire for their true Journalistic Professionalism as it's something often missed in magazines and other media outlets today. They were completely unbiased in their review and we were not even asked to cover their expenses. They were a class act operation and if anyone has the chance to work with them in the future, I say go for it.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

tdi-bart said:


> thats what happens when you use iChart, it just looks pretty thats about it :laugh:


No excuses... edit the damn axes.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> No excuses... edit the damn axes.


I have no idea what iChart is, but that's not what I use.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> I have no idea what iChart is, but that's not what I use.


Me neither. Still, no excuses for poor charts. The bar is high for you guys.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Me neither. Still, no excuses for poor charts. The bar is high for you guys.


I uploaded a cluttered chart above. I had to scale the chart much larger so you could read it. Small increments (like 5, 10, etc) nice and all but when the charting software neglects to put the last number in, if it doesn't end on that number, it looks horrible.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> I uploaded a cluttered chart above. I had to scale the chart much larger so you could read it. Small increments (like 5, 10, etc) nice and all but when the charting software neglects to put the last number in, if it doesn't end on that number, it looks horrible.


Sweet, thanks! You guys really extracted out some nice deltas with the stage 2 setup.

Here's just my 2 cents using that chart as an example for what you'd post on your site:

X-axis: plot from 1800 to 6800 RPM, major axis ticks of 1000 RPM, minor axis ticks of 200 RPM (5 minor ticks per major tick).

Y-axis: plot from 100 to 500 HP, major axis ticks of 100 HP, minor axis ticks of 20 HP (5 minor ticks per major tick). (I'd prefer plotting from 0 HP to 500 HP, but I understand that the tuners like their plots to start higher to show the gains a bit more...)

Viola! All of the numbers become super easy to read from the simplified chart, with minimal data removed for formatting.


----------



## YYC Dubber (Jun 23, 2011)

*Stage 2 with only downpipe*

WOW, super excited about this map. 

I was going to stay with only a Stage 1 map (it was my experience with the Mk5 GTI stage 2 that it only contributed to top end)

I value huge torque numbers that hit fast and I must say I am amazed you were able to make very significant gains below 3k RPM, especially since stage 1 seems to be unable to do this below 2.5 k.

Now a quick concern; I really like the OEM sport exhaust note and am wondering how using the downpipe will affect this curve instead of the full turbo back...


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

YYC Dubber said:


> WOW, super excited about this map.
> 
> I was going to stay with only a Stage 1 map (it was my experience with the Mk5 GTI stage 2 that it only contributed to top end)
> 
> ...


The factory catback system is not very restrictive so with just the downpipe you should see pretty much the same figures.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

Marty said:


> Me neither. Still, no excuses for poor charts. The bar is high for you guys.


joke, ichart probably doesnt exist, yet :laugh:


----------



## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

Hey Arin,

Curious as to whether or not you saw any gains at stage 2 with intake/intercooler? Or is the turbo pretty much the restriction at that point?

Cheers,
matt


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jibbed said:


> Hey Arin,
> 
> Curious as to whether or not you saw any gains at stage 2 with intake/intercooler? Or is the turbo pretty much the restriction at that point?
> 
> ...


I don't have that data yet.


----------

