# Secondary Air Pump No longer Running?



## GT-Dub (Mar 15, 2006)

My secondary air pump has recently stopped running. I first noticed this a few weeks ago on a -18 morning, my car was no longer crazy loud when starting cold. The car idles very very low and rough for about 10sec as if it was going to shut off and then it will slowly turns up to normal and drives just fine. When the engine is warm, or the weather is not so cool, the car starts normally. Has anyone had the same problem or any idea what to check? This is a 2005.5 2.5 with 61,000 that I have owned and maintained since day 1.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*

Has a CEL lit up? Seems to me if that stopped working one would as it's an emissions control.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*

SAI will NOT run when temperature is below ~35F, as it may be possible that ice has formed inside the pump.
-Jeffrey Atwood


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_SAI will NOT run when temperature is below ~35F, as it may be possible that ice has formed inside the pump.
-Jeffrey Atwood

Hey thanks! that's good info to keep in mind!


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## GT-Dub (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (BuddyWh)*

Slight correction, it's not as much as 10sec that the car acts crazy, it's closer to 3sec and yes CEL does stay on during that quick time and then goes off as soon as idle comes up to normal which as I said is usually between 2 to 4 seconds. I have owned the car for 4yrs in 3weeks, I think you are right about below 35 but it has not come on at any time, morning or when I leave work or when temp is over 35 and I have been watching it for a couple of months. I also noticed that if I leave the ignition on for a while before I start the car, the rough idle part goes away but the pump still doesn't come on.


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## Morridin19 (Nov 24, 2008)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*

Let it warm up in a garage if you have a chance, see if ice is the problem. I know I had a similar issue for about 3 days when it was really really cold out (-40C), but it went away after that, seems like ice if you ask me.


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## GT-Dub (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (Morridin19)*

Good suggestion but I believe that in the past couple of months, the car has pretty much been through multiple different starting conditions (super cold, freezing, warm, etc...) and I always keep it in the garage.


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*

There is a relay that's supposed to turn on pump...disconnect harness at pump and use voltmeter or test lamp to see if you get 12V on cold start..if yes..then its a pump issue, if no...look for pump relay and check that out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*

I know the OP said at the outset that he has 61K on the car, so normal warranties are obviously expired. But if the SAI is an emission control, and a CEL is lit, then seems to me it's still covered under the Federal Emissions warranty that doesn't expire until 80K miles.
It might be he has to fail an emissions test in order to claim coverage though. Dunno what the rules are in his state...just offering this suggestion 'cause most people seem to forget they still have that federal emissions warranty.


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## vince557 (Feb 18, 2006)

*FV-QR*

mine does this sometimes but my car is a 2008 and only has 12k miles


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## andoor (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT-Dub* »_ I also noticed that if I leave the ignition on for a while before I start the car, the rough idle part goes away but the pump still doesn't come on.


The same thing was happening to me and I noticed that doing this helped. My car now only starts with a rough idle if it is cold and the car has been sitting for more than a day. I know that the pump only works in a narrow band of temperatures if it is to hot or cold the pump doesn't cycle. o yea the car is an 07 rabbit 40K.


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## GT-Dub (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (andoor)*

It sounds like we are experiencing exactly the same condition. It was 72 degrees today, the car started just fine every time. I did not test the pump since I have no clue where to find the pump.


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## GT-Dub (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (BuddyWh)*

I will trade the car in before I ever dream of another warranty claim. As of 58K miles, VW had spent more than $20K in parts and labor on this car. I love the car and it's going on 13months without a problem; the longest in 4yrs but I think it has spent more time at the dealership than in my hands and dealing with VW customer care was an absolute nightmare since day 2! But... I still love the car.


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT-Dub* »_I will trade the car in before I ever dream of another warranty claim. As of 58K miles, VW had spent more than $20K in parts and labor on this car. I love the car and it's going on 13months without a problem; the longest in 4yrs but I think it has spent more time at the dealership than in my hands and dealing with VW customer care was an absolute nightmare since day 2! But... I still love the car. 

WOW are you serious!!








NORMALLY, the SAI would not activate if it is TOO cold. Otherwise, a cold start would yield 1500-1700rpm for about 10 secs. A warmer start would give 1100-1200rpm for about 5 secs. 
Normally, the dealer hooks up some tool to check to see if SAI is working correctly. It wont give you a CEL however. 
SAI is for emissions purposes. Its supposed to warm up the cat quickly so that the car gets better mileage(?) and better emissions on a cold engine more earlier. Its mostly for the emission "score" (lack of better word) given by the govt. or EPA or whoever is in charge of that department. You dont really NEED it, and if it doesnt work even in warmer temps (40+), you can just hold the gas pedal and rev around 1700rpm for 10secs and it will have the same efect.


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## GT-Dub (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*

Last weekend I decided I would disconnect the battery for 10min to see if this would fix my problem. I had nothing to lose so I thought. This fixed the problem but also opened a whole new can of worms. I reconnected the battery and true enough the pump came on this time and it's been operating normally since then, the pump that is. The car immediately also started making a terrible noise from the left side of the engine. The noise (long aluminum rattling) is around 1800 rpm and also when it's shifting gears. The car drives terrible, surges and hesitates while SEL is blinking like xmas lights. It's been barely driveable, of course it's at the shop now, what else is new...


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*

Wow that's pretty crazy! What else has gone wrong with the car since you bought it?


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## GT-Dub (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (classicjetta)*

What has NOT gone wrong is a much much shorter list. And I am that guy who never returns anything, I always believed that you get what you paid for until about 2 months after I bought this car. I just want it to work... too much to ask for I guess.


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## dogsanddubs (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*

sorry to hear about the problems, i know how you feel...
picked up my car used 2 weeks ago, and so far:
two spark coil failures
both rear speed sensors faulty
broken windshield
rear passenger shock failure
all within 2500 kilometres (1553 miles)
10 years driving volkswagens and they've never left me stranded, I could always limp it home, even after an accident 
within the first 36 hours owning this thing i had to get a tow
good luck with the car, hopefully it came out of the shop all in order http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif everything still working properly with the SAI now?


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (dogsanddubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dogsanddubs* »_sorry to hear about the problems, i know how you feel...
picked up my car used 2 weeks ago, and so far:
two spark coil failures
both rear speed sensors faulty
broken windshield
rear passenger shock failure
all within 2500 kilometres (1553 miles)
10 years driving volkswagens and they've never left me stranded, I could always limp it home, even after an accident 
within the first 36 hours owning this thing i had to get a tow
good luck with the car, hopefully it came out of the shop all in order http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif everything still working properly with the SAI now?


wow you serious? this is with the MKV?


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## GT-Dub (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (dogsanddubs)*

as far as I know, still no problems with SAI, unfortunately the last time I saw the car was 5 days ago when I dropped it off. They still don't know what is wrong but did find two broken injector seals. It will be Tuesday before they can get the parts, replace and diagnose again. 29 days is the longest they have kept it so this is still really not as bad as it gets...


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*

Just out of curiosity, when did you buy the car? (Month/yr)


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## GT-Dub (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (classicjetta)*

March 2005, the car went on sale on Friday, I bought it on Saturday morning.


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## dogsanddubs (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mujjuman* »_
wow you serious? this is with the MKV?

ya, the mkV... but, windshield was freak accident, and i don't think the coils will fail again anytime soon 

_Quote, originally posted by *GT-Dub* »_...They still don't know what is wrong but did find two broken injector seals. It will be Tuesday before they can get the parts, replace and diagnose again. 29 days is the longest they have kept it so this is still really not as bad as it gets... 

broken injector seals is surprising, is your mileage very high? (or very low?) just curious as to why they would fail/wear/dry-out?
29 days is ridonkulous to keep your car... were you able to get a rental under your warranty then?


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## GT-Dub (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (dogsanddubs)*

I think the mileage is high (65K) which always surprises me because I live less than 2miles from work, I don't get around much otherwise and we have a second car. Under warranty they always gave me a rental or a loaner. Of course car is out of waranty now so it's all out of pocket, I guess this is where they really get me.


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*

That's really crazy man, I think maybe the car was built wrong from the factory


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT-Dub* »_March 2005, the car went on sale on Friday, I bought it on Saturday morning. 

Ah so you got one of the first cars off the line. Unfortunately that greatly increases the chance of having problems








I wouldn't bother continuing to go to a dealer, they're rates are outrageous; particularly MAG who also services all the high end VAG brands (Audi, Lamborghini, etc.).
I'd recommend either of these places:
http://www.motorkars.com/
http://www.blagois.com/


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## GT-Dub (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (classicjetta)*

Update: The shop replaced spark plugs, injector seals, air filter, intake tube & invoiced $800. The car ran ok, still hesitating at times but the noise was still there although not as loud. 70% sure it's the cat converter they said. Took the car to the dealership, it's not the cat converter dealership said, $400 of diagnostics later, I was out of cash. Called VOA, they were rude and told me to go pound sand since car is out of warranty. 1 day later the car is worse it has ever been, although noise is just about all gone, runs great with foot on the gas but does not hold idle and dies, CEL is a light show again. Going to Motorkars on Wenesday... I am naming this car "Luci... fer"!


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

*Re: Secondary Air Pump No longer Running? (GT-Dub)*

If it is anything related to emissions then you're still covered under federal emissions control warranty. It's something like 8 years/80,000 miles.
I'm thinking your throttle is faulty somehow.


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

if it runs crappy at idle and good 2k rpm, then t could be the cam adjuster failing.


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (rustlerdude)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rustlerdude* »_if it runs crappy at idle and good 2k rpm, then t could be the cam adjuster failing. 

I have that in my BMW... I think its the cam position sensor


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## GT-Dub (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: (mujjuman)*

I just hope my next update will be that the car is driving so great, I am driving it to the moon.


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