# fun on a car treadmill



## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

My rabbit needed to excercise...haha


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## 4vgnugn (Apr 15, 2007)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*

so how did the dyno go?


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (4vgnugn)*

I cant give all my secrets out....we were testing some parts and will soon post results........trust me....big stuff is to come


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## subwoffers (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*

.....


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## jetta2pointfive (Sep 28, 2006)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (subwoffers)*


_Quote, originally posted by *subwoffers* »_.....

............................


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (jetta2pointfive)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jetta2pointfive* »_
............................

................................................................


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (jetta2pointfive)*

We have recreated the CEL people are getting with a CAI on the dyno and on the street....and have found a solution.....its actually pretty easy....


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_We have recreated the CEL people are getting with a CAI on the dyno and on the street....and have found a solution.....its actually pretty easy....

take off the cai and its gone


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## 2point5 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (absoluteczech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *absoluteczech* »_
take off the cai and its gone
















hahaha if it was only that easy...


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## subwoffers (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (2point5)*

If you found out can you let us know?


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (2point5)*

Think about the CEL everyone is getting....what does this tell you
_000369 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1: System Too Lean 
P0171 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 5
Mileage: 9495 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 22:51:46_
A.....you have a leak after the MAF
B.....you have more air coming in than the ECU programing can handle...

now what can you do to fix these...
A...make sure you dont have any leaks
B...Match the added air with fuel...



_Modified by sharons03jetta at 10:02 PM 4-30-2007_


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## 2point5 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*

Injectors???? Ive been looking for some bigger than stock but have had no luck...


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (2point5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2point5* »_Injectors???? Ive been looking for some bigger than stock but have had no luck...


No but they will most likley be needed for CAI and header....the stock ECU programing for the stock injectors is very conservative....THe ECU can only adjust fueling 25% richer or leaner....called fuel trim......When a CEL for: *Fuel Trim; Bank 1: System Too Lean *is found it means only one thing....The engine is getting more air than its used to and has added 25% more fuel and it still cant reach the desired A/F ratio...


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## blackhawk 76 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*

chip?!


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

stop holding out and just tell us whats in the works. hiding things doesnt help anything.


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (travis3265)*


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (~kInG~)*

no chip....you will know soon....I will show pics of my intake......and my header.....with dyno graphs...and explain why mine works.....Im a 1.8t guy so I started thinking like a 1.8t guy and it just came to me....I will tell you this....I have contacted a software company and when the time is right I will have an Eaton M90 supercharger on my car


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_no chip....you will know soon....I will show pics of my intake......and my header.....with dyno graphs...and explain why mine works.....Im a 1.8t guy so I started thinking like a 1.8t guy and it just came to me....I will tell you this....I have contacted a software company and when the time is right I will have an Eaton M90 supercharger on my car


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## rab_iter (Aug 20, 2006)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*

this guy has the right idea we should find out more about the stock setup its the problem.I also think theres a serious problem with the stock tunning/ecu (rev hold,terible clutch,injectors and so on)

anyone sticking with this car will be a guru when its all said and done


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## pslawinski (Dec 28, 2006)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_Think about the CEL everyone is getting....what does this tell you
_000369 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1: System Too Lean 
P0171 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 5
Mileage: 9495 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 22:51:46_
A.....you have a leak after the MAF
B.....you have more air coming in than the ECU programing can handle...
_Modified by sharons03jetta at 10:02 PM 4-30-2007_

Ha, that's from my car. Anyways, I'm pretty sure the problem for me is B. I am sure there are no leaks. I just don't see how air can get through all the tape I used on the joint between the hoses and the adapter.
I'm tired of dealing with the MIL, and I'm pretty close to selling the intake. Unfortunately I have bigger problems right now. Some poor a$$#ole lost a wheel while he was getting on the interstate. The wheel rolled in front of my car and I hit it.







Destroyed the Condenser, Radiator, support bracket, and tore the electrical connectors off the AC compressor. Of course since this guy was poor he was uninsured. I'm not even sure if the cops found him to be honest. So this is coming out of my insurance







I think I have the worst luck when it comes to cars. I've hit a plastic container that fell off a truck only a few miles from where I hit the tire. I also had a U-Haul truck come into my lane and hit my old Jetta in the same area.
Sorry for going so off topic, just needed to get that out. 


_Modified by pslawinski at 8:57 AM 5-1-2007_


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_Think about the CEL everyone is getting....what does this tell you...
A.....you have a leak after the MAF
B.....you have more air coming in than the ECU programing can handle...


hmmmm..... if it is B... so the mix is too LEAN? couldn't that lead to some serious problems down the road? like damaged piston(s)?


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (BuddyWh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BuddyWh* »_
hmmmm..... if it is B... so the mix is too LEAN? couldn't that lead to some serious problems down the road? like damaged piston(s)?









It doesn't end up THAT lean, but it's certainly something to consider if you keep using 87 octane and a CAI that doesn't address the issue properly. Over time there _may_ be consequences. Since no has near enough miles or experience with this motor, it's just better to stay safe at this point.
All this really illustrates is just how restrictive the stock intake track is AND that VW litterally built this motor near it's limits on the stock tuning with the equiptment it has from the factory (at this point. The 170hp model has yet to be seen).


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

oh yeah, and what about us who dont have CEL's? are you saying we are running too lean?


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (travis3265)*


_Quote, originally posted by *travis3265* »_oh yeah, and what about us who dont have CEL's? are you saying we are running too lean?

you tell me! log block 032 and let us know! You may have only set a soft code. The CEL comes on when you have exceed 25% fueling correction and your engine is cycled (usually). http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## pslawinski (Dec 28, 2006)

*Re: (magilson)*

I've looked at that on my car before. The first number stays below 1 usually, but the second number is usually around 10.32.


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## 4vgnugn (Apr 15, 2007)

yeah, i don't have a cel... what's going on with us?
but if it's a simple vag-com mod, then i'm down for it!


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (pslawinski)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pslawinski* »_I've looked at that on my car before. The first number stays below 1 usually, but the second number is usually around 10.32.

not bad, but that is higher than stock... I'd say with your current driving style that you may never have an issue. However, your intake may not flow as others or they may have used another method to correct the issue. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Have you taken any long trips and higher speeds? (what I'm driving at is higher sustained RPMs.)


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (4vgnugn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4vgnugn* »_yeah, i don't have a cel... what's going on with us?
but if it's a simple vag-com mod, then i'm down for it!

Vag-Com is not the miracle drug that somehow everyone seems to have come to believe. However it is an absolutely invaluable tool when it comes to understanding your car!
So there is no Vag-Com mod to solve this issue (that I'm aware of, I'll admit). However there are a few possibilities that may be at work that are keeping you from setting a CEL. This is not a CEL caused by a leak at the connecters post MAF as some less observant shops have had issues with. This is an issue with the stock tune regarding a/f and the way the injectors are controlled. There are ways around this that have been used in the VW world in the past. No mysteries there! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mk3trekk (Mar 11, 2005)

I'd like to hear more about these supercharger plans of yours.


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

if its an issue with the stock tune, then why dont i have a CEL and why dont a bunch of other people? these claims make no sense whatsoever.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (travis3265)*


_Quote, originally posted by *travis3265* »_if its an issue with the stock tune, then why dont i have a CEL and why dont a bunch of other people? these claims make no sense whatsoever.

Cool, don't worry about it then. What I am trying to explain is that some of us have figured out why the CEL is being set in the first place. One way to take care of it is to manipulate what the MAF is seeing. There are other ways as well which are being developed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif The reality of the situation is that both can be a solution, but one will yeild more power than the other.








Of course taking care of the root of the problem is the best solution.


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (travis3265)*

trust me its all in driving style...the current CAI is right on the edge in the means of Fuel trim.....the one guy has long term fuel trim of 10.23%.....this means at that driving style the ECU is adding 10.23% more fuel than it was written for to achieve 14.7/1 AFR or 1 lambda.....My car just driving around town was around 14.00%...but once I got on highway, were there is a lot of air and I was at part throttle (3500 rpm cruise) the car would run a bit lean and the ecu would add more fuel....once it reaches 25% more fuel it throws a DTC (not a cel)....the next key cycle if the fuel trim is still up around 25% the CEL will come on....after I went back to city driving....slower speeds the CEL would go off after 4-5 different trips around town (not just key cylces, you have to go drive) becuase the fuel trim will come back down to a "closer to stock" level....try what I did...go on the highway and log Block 032 and watch the second # (long term fuel trim/part throttle fuel trim)....it will go up with the current CAI installed
You can read about fuel trim here http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1201806


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (travis3265)*


_Quote, originally posted by *travis3265* »_if its an issue with the stock tune, then why dont i have a CEL and why dont a bunch of other people? these claims make no sense whatsoever.

give it a test....get on the highway for a while make a few stops along the way....I would like to hear what your outcome is because we will always be testing....the worst thing ever is to have a product out there that is causing a CEL


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_trust me its all in driving style...

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (BuddyWh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BuddyWh* »_
hmmmm..... if it is B... so the mix is too LEAN? couldn't that lead to some serious problems down the road? like damaged piston(s)?









our ECU is very self preserving...meaning it will do what ever it takes to keep from going boom.....If it senses something really bad it will pull timing....dump fuel....close throttle....usually in that order...


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## 2point5 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (mk3trekk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk3trekk* »_I'd like to hear more about these supercharger plans of yours.

X2....I plan to also use a roots style...whats your approach


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (2point5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2point5* »_
X2....I plan to also use a roots style...whats your approach

we plan to make a short runner intake manifold and install the M90 under that....I would really like to intercool it but space may be an issue..The stock ECU request an A/F ratio of 14.7/1 which is a little lean for a FI engine (actually a lot lean..haha) A little birdy told me that a certian software company will have FI software for the 2.5 at waterfest....not saying im going to use that but its always an idea....I already have the blower bought and am sorcing injectors as we speak..


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## chewy'sjetta (Feb 1, 2004)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_

No but they will most likley be needed for CAI and header....the stock ECU programing for the stock injectors is very conservative....THe ECU can only adjust fueling 25% richer or leaner....called fuel trim......When a CEL for: *Fuel Trim; Bank 1: System Too Lean *is found it means only one thing....The engine is getting more air than its used to and has added 25% more fuel and it still cant reach the desired A/F ratio...


you crazy if youi think VW used injectors running at near 100% duty cycle. Maybe you just need a fpr and turn the pressure up a tad.
Oh yeah and S/c are a waste of time and money. IMHO


_Modified by chewy'sjetta at 1:37 PM 5-1-2007_


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (chewy'sjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chewy’sjetta* »_
you crazy if youi think VW used injectors running at near 100% duty cycle. Maybe you just need a fpr and turn the pressure up a tad.
Oh yeah and S/c are a waste of time and money. IMHO

_Modified by chewy'sjetta at 1:37 PM 5-1-2007_

It's obvious you don't fully understand this car yet. To begin with this is a returnless fuel system. So turning up the pressure a tad won't work on the stock tune because the ECU is closely monitoring the pressure. Deviation from stock could very well set a code...
Second, no one is suggesting the injectors are at 100%. In fact, by design, no factory tune I am aware of takes the injectors past 80%. However due to the fact that the wiring harness et all were sourced from another manufacturer who just so happens to use a certain size injector VERY frequently means it was in VW's best monitary interest to go with that size. From what I've seen I'd say they are 40hp per injector. Add it up and it seems you could approach 200 hp safely. HOWEVER, you are again forgetting the stock tune and how it controls the injectors. I'd suggest spending some time in Vag-Com and I think you'd see what is being discussed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (chewy'sjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chewy’sjetta* »_Oh yeah and S/c are a waste of time and money. IMHO
_Modified by chewy'sjetta at 1:37 PM 5-1-2007_

While a turbo might be nice, you should consider the low rev limit of this car. While it may be possible to raise the rev limit, I'm not sure anyone has any proof that doing so is safe over the long haul.
Therefore sizing a turbo is more difficult and would probably provide less fun than a properly sized supercharger than can build the already rediculously flat torque curve. The turbo would have less Rev's to work in simpler terms.
However, no one knows either way. It's all speculation at this point.


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## 4vgnugn (Apr 15, 2007)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*

odd.... i stop and go on the freeway all the time as i live in california with the traffic and all. but no cel here.
wonder if there is a diff between the 05.5s and the rest. any other 05ers have CELs?


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (4vgnugn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4vgnugn* »_odd.... i stop and go on the freeway all the time as i live in california with the traffic and all. but no cel here.
wonder if there is a diff between the 05.5s and the rest. any other 05ers have CELs?

stop and go is the key. The issue is sustained RPM's. Like I said, you may never see the issue, the other intake manufacturers may have finally figured it out. However some people like to make sure there is no chance of a problem occuring rather than play the odds http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Again, just to be sure keep and eye on your block 032. If it never gets near 25% don't worry


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (4vgnugn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4vgnugn* »_odd.... i stop and go on the freeway all the time as i live in california with the traffic and all. but no cel here.
wonder if there is a diff between the 05.5s and the rest. any other 05ers have CELs?


I am curious to know as well.... Not many 05.5s in the area to test on...


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (chewy'sjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chewy’sjetta* »_
Oh yeah and S/c are a waste of time and money. IMHO
_Modified by chewy'sjetta at 1:37 PM 5-1-2007_

with our 5 speed/rev range/engine size/ a 90ci supercharger would make some great fun......
I want this torque curve --------------------------------.....get it







except a lot higher than stock...


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## chewy'sjetta (Feb 1, 2004)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_
with our 5 speed/rev range/engine size/ a 90ci supercharger would make some great fun......
I want this torque curve --------------------------------.....get it







except a lot higher than stock...

For the money you'll spend on a S/C you could spend the same on a gt28 make more power and have the curve prctically vertical from 2000rpms to 5800 rpm redline. 
With a S/C you'll make hardly any power. I've seen stg3 vf kits barely hang with chiped and bolt on 1.8ts. Another guys car has been sitting at VF with the promise that it'll make 350whp been a year and not there. The whole idea of a S/C on a small dicplacement motor is kinda ghey.


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_
give it a test....get on the highway for a while make a few stops along the way....I would like to hear what your outcome is because we will always be testing....the worst thing ever is to have a product out there that is causing a CEL

my daily driving varies and hits all different styles. i do city driving stop and go on the way to the gym during rush hour. then i do about 5 minutes city until i hit the highway where i hit about 80mph but hit 2 parts where i get down to 30-40 becuase of construction. then i do backroad country driving the rest of the way to work. repeat that on the way home. each day i hit all styles and i certainly dont take it easy on my car. no cel. thats why im a little lost here.


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## tua09282 (Sep 17, 2006)

you should go with one of those new fangeled electric supercharger


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: (tua09282)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tua09282* »_you should go with one of those new fangeled electric supercharger









no


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (travis3265)*

I see in your Sig you have a short ram intake....did you buy it, make it....any pics...


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (chewy'sjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chewy’sjetta* »_
For the money you'll spend on a S/C you could spend the same on a gt28 make more power and have the curve prctically vertical from 2000rpms to 5800 rpm redline. 
With a S/C you'll make hardly any power. I've seen stg3 vf kits barely hang with chiped and bolt on 1.8ts. Another guys car has been sitting at VF with the promise that it'll make 350whp been a year and not there. The whole idea of a S/C on a small dicplacement motor is kinda ghey. 



thats not my goal....350whp isnt what Im after and I doubt that many here are....as much fun as it is boil the tires on the highway...not my thing..Im not sure you know what a 90ci roots style blower can do...it moves 90ci of air for every revolution...our engine is 155ci and is a 4 stroke engine meaning it sucks in around 77.5ci per revolution....so if we spin it 1:1 we are makeing a little boost everywhere....aka idle to redline...so if we spin it 2:1 it would be pushing 180ci of air into an engine sucking in 77.5ci per revolution....as you can see boost is higher....EVERYWHERE...Idle to redline....and we are still only spining the blower 11,600rpm....no where near its max rpm of about 18,000 rpms.......these blowers came on 3.8l v6 and could make 350-400 whp....it can make all the power I need...EVERYWHERE...


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_I see in your Sig you have a short ram intake....did you buy it, make it....any pics...

i just didnt use the cold air part of the vwpartsMTL because its a peice of crap and didnt line up to the mounting points on 2 door rabbits (which they admitted to). i like the sound better and the throttle response is a bit more instant.


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## thumper07 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (travis3265)*

well after reading all that what did your car dyno at. its kinda the whole point of the title.
-matt


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## QuiescentPlunge (Aug 9, 2006)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*

Wait a minute...

_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_I will show pics of my intake......*and my header*.....

Shouldn't you buy us dinner first?








I'm all for holding out the details till you have everything all worked out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
But can you please let us no any work you've done- if any- on measuring vacuum? I'd like that very much.


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## chewy'sjetta (Feb 1, 2004)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_

thats not my goal....350whp isnt what Im after and I doubt that many here are....as much fun as it is boil the tires on the highway...not my thing..Im not sure you know what a 90ci roots style blower can do...it moves 90ci of air for every revolution...our engine is 155ci and is a 4 stroke engine meaning it sucks in around 77.5ci per revolution....so if we spin it 1:1 we are makeing a little boost everywhere....aka idle to redline...so if we spin it 2:1 it would be pushing 180ci of air into an engine sucking in 77.5ci per revolution....as you can see boost is higher....EVERYWHERE...Idle to redline....and we are still only spining the blower 11,600rpm....no where near its max rpm of about 18,000 rpms.......these blowers came on 3.8l v6 and could make 350-400 whp....it can make all the power I need...EVERYWHERE...










OK let look at it from a S/C stand point. Lets say this 90c.i. charger makes 60whp (being generous) at 2:1. At 2:1 you are robbing about 15whp (being conservative) from the motor. So now you're only making a 45whp gain. Ok lets look at the cost to fab up this charger. Assuming you are not cooling it my guess is somewhere in the range of $2000. 
If you want to make power at near idle you can run a t25 turbo make 60whp more and spool at 1500 rpms all for abouut the same price. A small t3 flanged turbo costing $300 spooling under 2000prms intercooled and everything done would also be about $2000 and wold be easier and less costly to upgrade later.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (chewy'sjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chewy’sjetta* »_my guess is somewhere in the range of $2000.

lol, no.


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (travis3265)*


_Quote, originally posted by *travis3265* »_
i just didnt use the cold air part of the vwpartsMTL because its a peice of crap and didnt line up to the mounting points on 2 door rabbits (which they admitted to). i like the sound better and the throttle response is a bit more instant. 


This is one reason you have no CEL....The current CAI has the filter in a great spot for cold air...to much cold air for the stock setup to correct....you have taken about half of the problem away....our CAI keeps the filter down low and keeps the CEL away...


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (chewy'sjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chewy’sjetta* »_
OK let look at it from a S/C stand point. Lets say this 90c.i. charger makes 60whp (being generous) at 2:1. At 2:1 you are robbing about 15whp (being conservative) from the motor. So now you're only making a 45whp gain. Ok lets look at the cost to fab up this charger. Assuming you are not cooling it my guess is somewhere in the range of $2000. 
If you want to make power at near idle you can run a t25 turbo make 60whp more and spool at 1500 rpms all for abouut the same price. A small t3 flanged turbo costing $300 spooling under 2000prms intercooled and everything done would also be about $2000 and wold be easier and less costly to upgrade later.




Ill take 45whp extra from idle to redline....and you take your car with a dyno graph that looks like a pyramid....lets see which one is more fun....like I said to get the power down low Im looking for from a turbo, yes Im sure a t25 would work great....but Im looking for a flat torque curve...not a spike of power....I love turbos dont get me wrong....my TT will get a BT someday


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## thumper07 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*

well can you please tell us what you dynoed?? i would like to know. thank you.
-matt


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (thumper07)*

stock dyno was 120 hp and 136 ft/lbs...I dont have the graph on this computer but I will try to get tommorow...This was on a 2007 5 speed with 2900 miles and break in oil still in....This was on a superflow dyno...Not going to release dyno #'s of intake yet....we want to get all the testing comleated...


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## bweed83 (Feb 25, 2007)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*

sounds like good things are coming....


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (bweed83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bweed83* »_sounds like good things are coming....


yes...plan on it...


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## 4vgnugn (Apr 15, 2007)

120 hp? that's low... even if it's at the wheels.


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (4vgnugn)*

all dynos give different results....what you look at is the % of gain...


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (4vgnugn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4vgnugn* »_120 hp? that's low... even if it's at the wheels.

Here we go again, okay the thing about all dynos...








They aren't all created equal. Dyno number are useless when it comes to comparing a product. Gains numbers are where it's at. Gains number show the change which takes out the discrepancies between dynos. Mustangs, DynoJets, Dynopack, SuperFlow, etc. They will all show different numbers. Not to mention I haven't met a single dyno owner who has ever had their dyno recalibrated after a it's been in use a while.
Not to mention the way the car is strapped down, the amount of air in the tires, the ventilation in the dyno room, etc all will cause bias in the results. So yeah, the gains are what matter, not the final numbers.
A clever dyno owner can easily make that same 120 whp number look like 150 and you guys would never know any better. Thats why you always ask for the gains numbers and take them with a grain of salt. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (magilson)*

here is a link to the stock dyno runs....three runs in 4th gear...
http://genuinesaab.com/vw/Rabbit25/index.htm


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## Cabrio60 (Oct 14, 2006)

These poor motors fall flat on their face at about 4900 rpm. Hopefully the INMOTION and soon to be GIAC chip fixes this.
These are very good numbers for 87 octane, I am impressed.


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (Cabrio60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cabrio60* »_These poor motors fall flat on their face at about 4900 rpm. Hopefully the INMOTION and soon to be GIAC chip fixes this.
These are very good numbers for 87 octane, I am impressed.









the stock cams and head are a huge restriction....look at this vag-com log.....the MAF has some good air coming in all the way to around 5000 rpms and then it starts loosing flow....and my foot was on the gas as you can see..... Cams and head porting is really the only way it will flow above 5000rpms...


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## 4vgnugn (Apr 15, 2007)

so what is your solution? new cams?


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (4vgnugn)*

cams and head work would be great....but I want low end grunt....I love to AutoX so I want power to come on low...this is my plan..


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (4vgnugn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4vgnugn* »_so what is your solution? new cams?

The solution for poor flow? Push the air in


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## 2point5 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*

Im sad...your blower looks nicer than mine.....







.....good luck with the install....how much boost do you plan to run.....


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## 4vgnugn (Apr 15, 2007)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*

is that what a supercharger looks like? i've never seen one uninstalled.... 
_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_cams and head work would be great....but I want low end grunt....I love to AutoX so I want power to come on low...this is my plan..


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (4vgnugn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4vgnugn* »_is that what a supercharger looks like? i've never seen one uninstalled.... 

That's what a rotary-lobe blower style supercharge looks like anyway.
http://www.superchargersonline...ID=76


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## IchBinDarren (Nov 5, 2005)

What is the exhaust like since you removed the back muffler?


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (IchBinDarren)*

the removed rear muffler is on the TT and it sounds great..


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## 4vgnugn (Apr 15, 2007)

give us an update on the cel solution you're working on.


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (4vgnugn)*

Pics will be up soon...long term fuel trims were at 0.8% as of yesterday....so the solution works...now we need to make up a finished product to take pics of...


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## Datic (Feb 19, 1999)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_no chip....you will know soon....I will show pics of my intake......and my header.....with dyno graphs...and explain why mine works.....Im a 1.8t guy so I started thinking like a 1.8t guy and it just came to me....I will tell you this....I have contacted a software company and when the time is right I will have an Eaton M90 supercharger on my car









I'm guessing you have found a way to up the fuel pressure. I remember when the first 1.8t's came out people were chipping them and having the same issue. A 4 bar fp regulator was the answer...


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (Datic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Datic* »_
I'm guessing you have found a way to up the fuel pressure. I remember when the first 1.8t's came out people were chipping them and having the same issue. A 4 bar fp regulator was the answer...

This car uses a returnless fuel system whos pressure is closely regulated by the ECU. Swapping FPR's isn't so easy in this case. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (Datic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Datic* »_
I'm guessing you have found a way to up the fuel pressure. I remember when the first 1.8t's came out people were chipping them and having the same issue. A 4 bar fp regulator was the answer...

we did find a way to up fuel....but its not pressure...


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## bweed83 (Feb 25, 2007)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*

what the heck your such a tease.....


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (bweed83)*








...


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_
we did find a way to up fuel....but its not pressure...









u will be sharing this information right?


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (travis3265)*

yes


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

higher rated injectors may do the trick


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*

they probably would help....not to sure if the average Joe wants to have to install injectors to make their CAI work though when there is an easyer way that is also cheaper....We are looking into a good upgrade in injector though....The 2.5l uses a Nippon Denso Style injector so we hare having to look a bit to find some with more flow...


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## bonestockgolf (Oct 16, 2004)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_the stock cams and head are a huge restriction

But I thought it was a Lambo head..?


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (sharons03jetta)*

nice, i knew this had to do with FI


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## davela72 (Jun 7, 2000)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (mujjuman)*

Probably one of the most informative threads I've read in a while, good job guys! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: fun on a car treadmill (davela72)*

parts of the finished product will be CNC'd here soon and I will have pics....We are currently looking for another part time machinest...so production is slow...The 2 ports for the Secondary air injection and PCV system will be made on a lathe out of aluminum....so we wont have to worry about a leak...


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## 2point5 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (QuiescentPlunge)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuiescentPlunge* »_Wait a minute...
Shouldn't you buy us dinner first?








I'm all for holding out the details till you have everything all worked out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
But can you please let us no any work you've done- if any- on measuring vacuum? I'd like that very much.

yeah....what about this header....is it even going to make any power on this engine....if the cams and heads are the restriction...how would a different header help....


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (2point5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2point5* »_
yeah....what about this header....is it even going to make any power on this engine....if the cams and heads are the restriction...how would a different header help....


we will address that before we make one.....we plan to run backpressure test on the dyno at different spots of the exhaust...we will weld in a bung so we can put a pressure sensor...before cat...after cat...after resonator...to see how much backpressure we have...if there is to much before the cat at WOT than maybe a header will benifit....We are getting near atmospheric on our vacum test...so it may help..It may not...usually the amount of hp you gain up top you loose down low....its always a trade off....


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## 2point5 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*

hurry up with the blower....


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whatsyourbeef* »_higher rated injectors may do the trick

This will also require ECU tuning. 
Bigger Inejctors = Different pulse width needed.


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
This will also require ECU tuning. 
Bigger Inejctors = Different pulse width needed. 



most of the time yes.....most of the time


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Scratchmaster_J (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (mujjuman)*

Bump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## scaldedhare (Mar 13, 2007)

Sharons03Jetta,
Are you part of a company who's making this product? I know you're a part of geniunesaab.com, but it seems more like a saab parts store than a manufacturing company. I'm really just curious. 
If you're selling this product, what's your targeted release date?
Also, would the CEL solution be part of the intake if purchased, or would that require the purchase of a separate software upgrade. What would be the total price?
I might be thinking a bit too far ahead, but it would be nice to know.
Thanks for making what looks like a fantastic product. Can't wait till it comes out!








Cheers








Oh, what all do you have on your rabbit other than the intake (suspension, etc.)
I saw the pictures of your bunny on the autox thread. I.. WANT... YOUR.. WHEELS...


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## anti bling (Dec 13, 2003)

*Re: (scaldedhare)*

any updates yet!


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (anti bling)*










Yeah....that was the first time having the wheels on...I love them....I just have our intake for now....header is my next mod....suspensions is stock but I am looking for springs with higher spring rate but same ride hight as stock....I will get Koni's soon...
we are working on a "VW" section of our website....updates will be up soon....


_Modified by sharons03jetta at 8:58 PM 5-12-2007_


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*

whoa the wheels look nice!!!!


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## OrlandoJetta (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (mujjuman)*

K, ive read through this whole post today... 
1. The supercharger is a GREAT idea, nobody has gone that route, Kudos
2. Evoms makes a short-ram if thats what your looking for
3. Headers for this car will make a world of difference alone... the stock set-up sucks worse than a hooker around christmas... you should dyno your SC wit the stock setup.
4. The wheels like hot, but you need to drop it








5. Much love from the 2.5 community for taking the time to help http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
6. Once I dyno my inmotion chip i will let you know if im making power after 4500


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (OrlandoJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OrlandoJetta* »_3. Headers for this car will make a world of difference alone... the stock set-up sucks worse than a hooker around christmas... you should dyno your SC wit the stock setup.
4. The wheels like hot, but you need to drop it









3. Not convinced on that yet. When logging with his new intake his MAP is reaching atmosphering and it's reaching it earlier, meaning backpressure doesn't really appear to be an issue. However I did draw up with exhuast mani and hopefully we can fab one up soon to see. Most likely results will be lost low end for a little more high end. It would be interesting to see how many people would truely be interested in losing any of the grunt this motor has.








5. Suspension travel can be a very important component of autocrossing. A drop in ride height doesn't always fare well with performance, but it sure does look a whole lot better! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (OrlandoJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OrlandoJetta* »_K, ive read through this whole post today... 
1. The supercharger is a GREAT idea, nobody has gone that route, Kudos
2. Evoms makes a short-ram if thats what your looking for
3. Headers for this car will make a world of difference alone... the stock set-up sucks worse than a hooker around christmas... you should dyno your SC wit the stock setup.
4. The wheels like hot, but you need to drop it








5. Much love from the 2.5 community for taking the time to help http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
6. *Once I dyno my inmotion chip i will let you know if im making power after 4500* 

I would really like to see the dyno on that one...Vag-com logs would be great as well if you have it...


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_
I would really like to see the dyno on that one...Vag-com logs would be great as well if you have it...









ohyeah! you can use the VAGCOM to make a rough dyno estimate


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (mujjuman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mujjuman* »_
ohyeah! you can use the VAGCOM to make a rough dyno estimate

http://forums.audiworld.com/vag/msgs/457.phtml
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## OrlandoJetta (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (mujjuman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mujjuman* »_
ohyeah! you can use the VAGCOM to make a rough dyno estimate

HOW DO I DO THAT???? I will do it tomorrow if you guys can tell me how... really not trying to jack this thread, sorry....


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (OrlandoJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OrlandoJetta* »_
HOW DO I DO THAT???? I will do it tomorrow if you guys can tell me how... really not trying to jack this thread, sorry....









ok ill write it soon..... but ill let you know


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (mujjuman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mujjuman* »_
ok ill write it soon..... but ill let you know









lol. or just follow the link I gave that tells you exactly how
http://forums.audiworld.com/vag/msgs/457.phtml


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
lol. or just follow the link I gave that tells you exactly how
http://forums.audiworld.com/vag/msgs/457.phtml
 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Motoring_Maniac (May 15, 2007)

*Re: (mujjuman)*

*sits and waits for the mod list*


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## JZoidberg (Jun 20, 2006)

_Quote, originally posted by *MK5EYELIDS.COM* »_You can check us off on software. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Software will run around $400.00 We are working on getting some piping along with a few other items. I will get back to you with some more info within the next week.

Anyone else catch this in the classifieds? Posted by mk5eyelids.com advertiser.


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## Slipstream (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (JZoidberg)*

I just caught this thread and the plans for an S/C solution. You have my attention.


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (Slipstream)*

Yeah after AutoXing my car this past weekend I would really like to have a bit more power in the low and midrange.....I cant wait for the blower...I will do a whole tHread with lots of pics of that one....


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