# Upgrading Phaeton Navi to new RNS 810



## AudianerA6 (Sep 19, 2007)

Any chances? I own the old Navi with CD System, so the really old one.
thanks


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## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: Upgrading Phaeton Navi to new RNS 810 (AudianerA6)*

wonder same thing


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Upgrading Phaeton Navi to new RNS 810 (Reflect)*

Things you might have to change...
At least
- infotainment wood panel surroundings
- new A/C control module and new A/C control panel
- new RNS 810
Probably
- new MFI control module (updated so it talks to the RNS 810 and to the suspension module(s) and to the user preferences and to the TPMS, since you are throwing away the old infotainment unit that used to be responsible for interfacing with those modules)
- which then, new instrument binnacle so that the new MFI control module has an MFI screen it recognizes and can talk to.
Possibly
- new metal chassis behind the infotainment unit wood so it can hold the new equipment which has new shapes, new screws, more parts, and probably new weights.
And there are other bits and pieces that may need replacement. I'd wager it would be a non-insignificant bill.


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## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: Upgrading Phaeton Navi to new RNS 810 (Itzmann)*

yes lol. no easy way around it, but oemplus said they can do it but not cheap. so if u got the $ shout at them


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## AudianerA6 (Sep 19, 2007)

Ok, then... Oempl, what's the deal?


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The 810 unit is not listed in ETKA yet, but I'm going off the history of these units being rather pricey. As a comparison, the RNS-510 (same touchscreen, but for Mk5, Passat, etc.) is $3600 retail.
I will keep an eye out for it and advise when the pricing is available.


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## MK3SUPER8 (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (OEMpl.us)*

Asking a question will this unit fit in a mkIV GTI,.Just asking.


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*FV-QR*

No.


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Okay, we have pricing on the unit. Everyone sitting down? $8600 just for the head unit...


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (OEMpl.us)*

GOOD GOD!!!!!!


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## mhoepfin (Dec 20, 2007)

Really, how in the world can a piece of electronics cost that much in this day and age?
They must be rolling the low production numbers along with R&D into that price!


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## HeavyOil (Dec 19, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (OEMpl.us)*

At current UK depreciation rates, a Phaeton will shortly cost less......


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## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (HeavyOil)*

Buy a screen get a free phaeton


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (plastech)*

I doubt it could be done. 
The RNS510 for the "other" VWs as well as the MFD2 RNS DVD units were continent specific. Meaning that an EU unit would not work in the US and vice a versa. Then you would also have to determine if there are any US maps available for the unit. I don't know if any Audi or BMW maps would work.
Finally, have there been any CANBUS changes in the Phaeton during it's production? This may also make compatibility challenging.


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Retrofit: RNS-810*

Hello All,

Been a while since we have posted in here, but we have some good news...

Today we received an RNS-810, the touchscreen navigation system from the 2008+ Phaetons. We have a customer car coming in next week and we'll start the retrofit and testing process.

Stay tuned for updates!


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## ruddyone (Feb 9, 2009)

Awesome!!!

I assume you also had to get the accompanying wood surround?

Looking forward to the results. Take lots of pics!

Nate


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

Interesting!

:thumbup:

We'll have to see if the suspension controls work... didn't those migrate to the binnacle screen... which they can't on our older software.


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

Good question about the suspension controls. We will have a lot of work in front of us, but will update this thread as we go...


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## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

I'll be following. Getting tired of taking my Garmin with me.


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

We've got the old unit out of the car and are comparing it to the new version. It looks like there will be some serious wiring adapters needed just to get the new unit into the car. From there, we're going to dig and see what other components have been changed...

This first shot shows the faces of the units. Not much to worry about for fitment, as they are the same form factor.










The second shot shows the backs of the units. Old one is on the left (as above) and has a triple-plug system for the main connection, much like the Audi's do. The new version has a more traditional "quadlock" connector that has been used across both VW & Audi vehicles for some time now.










The third photo shows the old unit in more detail. The three-connector system on the right is a known entity, but the wiring is a little different. The two connectors for antenna are standard and we have an adapter for them already. The green connector appears to be related to the climate control system that is bundled into this unit. We are digging on that more now. While not as obvious, there is a fiber optic connector on this unit that connects it to the rear console. The new version doesn't have this, so we are scratching the head a bit to see what we'll do with that.










This last photo shows the back of the new unit. Quadlock ist kein problem and the other 26-pin connector will probably be a pared-down version of the 32-pin connector from the old unit. The connector toward the bottom is an 8-pin, which might account for the pins missing on the larger connector...?










Here we go, should be fun!!


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*RNS-810 pinouts*

I posted this a while back on the old version of the forum, maybe these pinouts will help!

I was wondering about the J524/E265 rear climate control unit, as I thought this and the Nav were the two components connected to the J523 Infotainment via fiber optic cable, but in looking at the post on how to retrofit a rear climate control panel it seems the only wires going in are power, ground, CanHi and CanLo.

Not sure about the suspension controller, I would guess you might need a new instrument cluster...

From previous post:

I did a bit of digging through the 11/2008 version of the Communications workshop manual and found the following pin assignments for the new J523; they seem to be the same as the RNS-510 pinouts with the exception for Connector 6, which is at the bottom of the unit (where the new A/C controls are):

*Connector 1* (4-pin)	Hazard warning light switch (no change)

1	Warning lamp button

2	Terminal 31, negative

3	Warning lamp LED

4	Not assigned











*Connector 2* (8-pin)	Loudspeaker outputs	(*#1 in pic above*)

1	Rear right loudspeaker, positive

2	Front right loudspeaker, positive

3	Front left loudspeaker, positive

4	Rear left loudspeaker, positive

5	Rear right loudspeaker, negative

6	Front right loudspeaker, negative

7	Front left loudspeaker, negative

8	Rear left loudspeaker, negative


*Connector 3* (8-pin)	Voltage supply lines and CAN bus	(*#2 in pic*)

9	CAN bus, high

10	CAN bus, low

11	BOSE pin

12	Voltage supply, negative terminal 31

13	Not assigned

14	Not assigned

15	Voltage supply, positive, terminal 30

16	Anti-theft coding control signal, SAFE, positive


*Connector 4* (12-pin)	Telephone and microphone signals	(*#3 in pic*)

1	Microphone input, negative

2	Not assigned

3	Not assigned

4	Microphone output, negative

5	Telephone audio input signal left, negative

6	Telephone audio input signal right, negative

7	Microphone input, positive

8	Not assigned

9	Microphone output, positive

10	Telephone mute (mute switch for radio)

11	Telephone audio input signal left, positive

12	Telephone audio input signal right, positive


*Connector 5* (12-pin)	CD changer control and CD audio input signals	(*#4 in pic*)

1	AUX signal input, left

2	AUX signal earth

3	CD changer, audio signal earth

4	CD changer, voltage supply, positive, terminal 30, contact continuous load greater than 1A, temporary peak load 5A

5	Not assigned

6	CD changer, DATA OUT (data exchange for CD changer control from radio navigation system to CD changer)

7	AUX signal input, right

8	CD changer, left audio channel, CD/L

9	CD changer, right audio channel, CD/R

10	CD changer, control line, switched positive

11	CD changer, DATA IN (data exchange for CD changer control from CD changer to radio navigation system)

12	CD changer, CLOCK (internal check protocol for data flow monitoring)


*Connector 6* (8-pin)	CAN	(*NOTE: this is unique to the RNS-810*)

1	Terminal 30, positive

2	CAN high

3	CAN low

4	Terminal 31, negative

5	

6	

7	

8	












*Connector 7* (26-pin)	Audio and video	

1	Reserved for Debug RX protocol

2	Reserved for Debug TX protocol

3	Not assigned

4	Negative

5	Video signal output LF, right

6	Video signal output, screening earth

7	Video signal output, vertical and horizontal synchronization

8	Video signal output, green

9	Not assigned

10	Video signal input LF, right

11	Video signal input, screening earth

12	Video signal input, vertical and horizontal synchronization

13	Video signal input, green

14	Not assigned

15	Not assigned

16	Not assigned

17	Video signal output LF, negative

18	Video signal output LF, left

19	Video signal output, RGBS, negative

20	Video signal output, blue

21	Video signal output, red

22	Video signal input LF, negative

23	Video signal input LF, left

24	Video signal input, RGBS, negative

25	Video signal input, blue

26	Video signal input, red












*Connector 8* (Aerial, FM)	Aerial connectors	

1	AM and FM radio reception aerial connector, double Fakra, no coding, impedance 50 ohms (cream-white color)

2	FM 2 radio reception aerial connector, double Fakra, coding B, impedance 50 ohms, cream-white color
*Connector 9* (Aerial, Nav)

3	Navigation aerial connector, double Fakra, coding C, impedance 50 ohms, blue color


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

Great detail, thanks CL! We're working through these same issues and this should help us get a jump on making the adapter harnesses...


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

Itzmann said:


> Interesting!
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> We'll have to see if the suspension controls work... didn't those migrate to the binnacle screen... which they can't on our older software.


Hi, 
Not as active here as I have been, so I might be a little late with this. The suspension controls stay in the central display unit, it is only the TPMS and other onboard computer data that moves to the driver binnacle display. Suspect that this retor fit will be tricky do to without changing the binnacle as well as this is now where all the setup function for the car resides. I am perping a post on my car and what I have found... Just need more time to write it up (and our new car is in the shop anyway)
An ambitious and interesting project nevertheless. 

Regards,

J


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

The fiber optic I believe is for the CD based nav system (I had mine replaced)... my guess is the new one is DVD based. 

This is the neatest Phaeton development in a long time... Good luck with this venture!


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

Auzivision said:


> The fiber optic I believe is for the CD based nav system (I had mine replaced)... my guess is the new one is DVD based.
> 
> This is the neatest Phaeton development in a long time... Good luck with this venture!


Yes and no, Nav info is delivered on DVD, system then loads it onto internal HD, leaving DVD slot (internal in the unit) free for DVD movie.

Regards,

J


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

This is a great thread to hold *both* the RNS-810 pinouts and the J523 pinouts so that OEMpl.us or someone else can make the wire which would allow the exchange of these units.

Here are the pinouts for J523:

T32C (the green connector)









The DIN standard VW audio connectors next to the fuse on the lower right hand side:









The overall view of the back of J523


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Progress!*

We have the unit in and it's working (so far). We get the navigation functions, radio, button illumination, etc., but the climate controls do not work yet.

We cannot code these units very well, as there is no good data on them. If there is anyone out there in EU-land with this RNS-810 installed from the factory, I would love to get:
- Climatronic Coding
- Radio Coding
- Your VIN to confirm the wiring schematic


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Suggested Pinout Mapping:*

For the climate controller, have you tried connecting the CAN LK and CAN HK from the Green plug (T32 #16 and #32) to the new Connector 6 on the RNS-810?



2004 J523 Connector 6 ( 8-pin ) #07 - Terminal 30 [+]............2008+ RNS-810 Connector 6 (8-pin) #01 Terminal 30 [+]
2004 J523 Connector 1 (32-pin) *#16 *- CAN high, comfort........2008+ RNS-810 Connector 6 (8-pin) #02 *CAN high*
2004 J523 Connector 1 (32-pin) *#32 *- CAN low, comfort.........2008+ RNS-810 Connector 6 (8-pin) #03 *CAN low*
2004 J523 Connector 6 ( 8-pin ) #08 - Terminal 31 [-].............2008+ RNS-810 Connector 6 (8-pin) #04 Terminal 31 [-]


Also, I wonder if the RNS-510 radio coding might be similar (since the 810 seems to be a lot like the 510); I'll check out on Ross-tech to see what I can find...


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

Whatever happened to this project? Was it successful?

cai


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

bump


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## vinyin (Feb 28, 2010)

Bump


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

It was successful to a point. We are able to get the navigation system working, but the climate control system does not play nicely with the other components.

Our test car is n/a at the moment, so we're waiting for another vehicle to continue our R&D...


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## gekon111a (May 13, 2010)

Could your precise waht stopped the instalaton of RNS810?
Recently I have seen RNS810 that was foulty in Phaeton 2009 and clima option was out order (no display of temp and no light at the indicator of the air flow. After replacement of RNS810 all mentioned options have started again.
To be sure that your RNS810 is full operating, it make sense to check it in the model 2009-2010 if you have such a chance.


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

OEMplus.com said:


> Okay, we have pricing on the unit. Everyone sitting down? $8600 just for the head unit...


I just contacted a guy from *THIS COMPANY*, which is offering it for just 1850 Euro including VAT (2553 US$). The website is from a company in my country, so it in the Dutch language. South Africans should be able to read it 
I asked him a lot of questions, more specifically whether all functionality is conserved and improved, etc. etc. He is going to find this out and will call me back later. Hope it is not just a dream to have a fully functional upgrade looking like this:










Is there anything specific that I need to ask the sales guy of this company? I already asked him about CAN-bus compatibility and module compatibility.

Willem


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Willem:

Honest to God, I think it is a dream.

I recall talking with the electronics engineers at Dresden about this same subject 3 years ago, even before this new nav system was released. Huge changes were made to the networking in the car with the 2008 MY refresh, not to mention that the controllers that this head unit controls (sound, navigation, HVAC, central electrical, amongst others) were also changed.

I hate to sound like a pessimist, but I don't think there is even faint hope of retrofitting this head unit. Functionally, it is too different from the previous unit, and it is improbable that it will 'match fields' with subordinate controllers when commands are entered. The issue is not the navigation or the sound, it is interaction with other controllers that the driver controls via this head unit.

Michael


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

I agree with Michael here, at best it's going to be a quite expensive project.

Basically the RNS810 is a Super-RNS510 and thats where the trouble starts. The early Phaetons up to MY 2006 used a CAN Databus Version TP 1.6 and with MY 2007 they switched to TP 2.0. Technically an RNS510 can be made partly work with TP 1.6 with an adapter which translates the messages/signals but it will never have 100% functionality.

Some of the information from the radio/nav gets displayed in the instrument cluster and while earlier models used a Display Data Protocol (DDP) on top of CAN (TP 1.6 as well as 2.0), the newer model years switched to the new Operating and Display Protocol (BAP). Needless to say that the two don't mix well... So the RNS510 can be switched between DDP and BAP but the RNS810 was never sold with DDP to begin with so I would not count on the possibility that it can be switched.

So even if you get all the mechanical parts sorted, adding a RNS810 to a US Phaeton (< MY 2006) would be everything else than easy. Some basics from the RNS510 (Touareg) retrofits may apply but I would still consider this whole topic highly experimental at best. So unless sb. has a spare Phaeton and a couple of grand to give this a shot I'd advice against it.


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## ruddyone (Feb 9, 2009)

I thought I remember reading the OEMPlus was trying this. I'll search around for the thread and if I find it I'll update this post.

Nate

And here it is----

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4938661-Retrofit-RNS-810

Looks like they were getting pretty close.

Best Regards,

Nate

_*Nate* - I merged the two threads together after you made the above post, the link you provided above now points to this thread. Michael_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

ruddyone said:


> Looks like they were getting pretty close...


Close only counts with horseshoes and grenades. 

I think the fact that that thread died a quiet death, and we have not seen any advertisements on the OEM Plus website for a J523 (Front Information Display and Control Unit) upgrade/retrofit says it all - the project won't work, at least, not at a price that is less than the value of the car.

Michael


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Theresias said:


> I agree with Michael here, at best it's going to be a quite expensive project.


Theresias, this is absolutely true, for the first one. The first person to make this happen probably needs to make (design) a protocol converter in addition to a cable harness. Then he can make it available to a lot of other Phaeton owners by creating a retrofit kit with detailed DIY instructions. Seems like a good business to me.



Theresias said:


> Basically the RNS810 is a Super-RNS510 and thats where the trouble starts. The early Phaetons up to MY 2006 used a CAN Databus Version TP 1.6 and with MY 2007 they switched to TP 2.0. Technically an RNS510 can be made partly work with TP 1.6 with an adapter which translates the messages/signals but it will never have 100% functionality.


It is a bit strange to read that the 2003-2006 Phaeton is using CAN controllers based on the 1.6 since CAN 2.0 was already published back in 1991. Perhaps you are referring to CAN 2.0A (11-bit) and CAN 2.0B which is 29-bit?



Theresias said:


> the newer model years switched to the new Operating and Display Protocol (BAP). Needless to say that the two don't mix well... So the RNS510 can be switched between DDP and BAP but the RNS810 was never sold with DDP to begin with so I would not count on the possibility that it can be switched.


True, but since BAP just uses other (standardized) codes to control specific items in a vehicle - i.e. control of the HAVC - it seems to me just a matter of code conversion. Protocol converters exist throughout the industry just like RS232-USB converters are available for consumers electronics. The biggest problem seems to be that the BAP code is kept proprietary for the moment.



Theresias said:


> .... but I would still consider this whole topic highly experimental at best. So unless sb. has a spare Phaeton and a couple of grand to give this a shot I'd advice against it.


Uhhhh, some dudes see this as a great challenge to create something that is highly beneficial for a lot of 2003-2006 Phaeton owners who are currently missing the benefits of Bluetooth, Google assisted navigation, HD storage capability etc.

Willem


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

Nah, VW/Audi still uses TP 1.6 - even in 2010 models.

Had my fair share of challenges in this context - was probably one of the first putting Golf/Jetta MK4 clusters into a MK3, but things change and back in the day the most work was mechanical/electrical. These days you gotta have a software engineer and the proper access to normally proprietary information to make things like this happen.


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Theresias said:


> These days you gotta have a software engineer and the proper access to normally proprietary information to make things like this happen.


Absolutely true. I couldn't find any documentation on the latest Phaeton models (>2006). And the repair manual for the


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## Voodtje (Oct 23, 2009)

*rns810*

Hi Willem, did you got any wiser from the shop that offered the set in Holland? some advertisers claim, that it's just a swapping issue. lets communicate in dutch directly, just google my name.

of course, if i know more, i let the forum know.


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Although I haven't checked in detail, I would imagine that the sellers who say it's just plug-and-play probably don't have particularly robust returns policies...

Harry


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Hello Jean Pierre… welcome to the Phaeton forum.
I’ve been calling and writing with some dudes and companies who offer the RNS 810 as update for the Phaeton. None of them seems to know the answers to my questions, of which the main one is whether it will work on a Phaeton with MY 2004 control head installed. Or they don’t call back, or don’t respond to my e-mails. Just type in “RNS 810” in the search field of Marktplaats.nl and you will find a Belgian offer for the update for just 749 Euro.
To be honest, I wouldn’t offer my P to them to install the new head before they give me a solid proof that they have a solution which works. On the other hand, I’m quite happy with the classic control head as it is. I’m audiophile and I like the CD quality and the digital sound (even though two bass speakers are blown). I have the antique car kit with handset, but I love its simple operation, its crystal clear conversation quality, and flawless reception which even persists in tunnels. I use a Duo card from Vodafone and simply switch my smart phone to “flight mode” as soon as I enter the P. It is just the navigation which I find grossly outdated. My wife calls it “OM OM” (Dutch for detour-detour) and would love to have the Google assisted nav as on the smart phone.
For a successful modification/retrofit, there are various technical issues, of which some need extensive efforts and then I mean weeks, if not months of work. Main issue is that I have poor documentation about the wiring, signal levels and functioning, the coding of the convenience CAN and knowledge about the way the various CAN buses are interlinked in the P. Not for the faint of heart. In addition, I haven’t got the faintest idea how the TFT of the instrument panel is driven, which could be direct from the control head or by means of its own firmware. In the latter case, the instrument panel must be replaced. Interesting in that respect is that there is a Dutch company which can make custom instrument panels fully digital based on a concept using 3 color TFT screens. For the moment, it is still a dream, as Michael wrote. You might as well consider purchasing a new(er) Phaeton with the new control head when you really fancy all new features. What counts for me is that I am driving a fully original, very luxurious and almost classic car which still puts a lot of modern cars in the shade. Apart from the Nav and its mileage, it is perfect.

Regards,
Willem


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

Regarding the inadequacy of the Nav:

On long trips, we use the Ph Nav with discs updated to 2010 (the BMW TeleAtlas discs). The main missing item here Stateside is evidently the traffic update. 

But since our long car trips always have at least a pilot and a copilot (my wife and myself), if traffic is a concern, the copilot can always do navigation duty by pulling out of the bag either an iPhone or an iPad with GPS, and get instant free traffic updates via the standard "Maps" app. 

This setup has served us well. :thumbup:


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

*DVD SatNav in place of CD SatNav*

Hi again, 

can anyone confirm the possibility of changing the CD SatNav unit for the DVD based version? 

Thanks 
Stu


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Impossible. 

The DVD navigation CD reader is not compatible with the large center display in the first iteration of the Phaeton. 

Michael


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

PanEuropean said:


> Impossible.
> 
> The DVD navigation CD reader is not compatible with the large center display in the first iteration of the Phaeton.
> 
> Michael


 Damn it, 

first you took so long to answer (at least ten minutes) and then you blow my plan clean out the water 

Thanks Michael 
Stu


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## rowleav (Jul 12, 2011)

*Pinout connection*

Hello, please excuse my newness. I am in the UK and have just purchased a 2006 Phaeton. None of my local audio professionals can help me and Dension just sent an email saying that there were no Dension products available to link an iPod to the Phaeton due to a Technical reason. Here is a copy and paste of their response to my question of whether anything would fit. 

Dear Customer, 
We do not have for this car any car specific solution, on technical reason! 

If you want to use an iPhone, we offer you our new, universal solution, 
the Car Dock for iPhone. 

This is simply, clever, easy to minstall, and use, although fulfill 
nearly all the functionalities, you are looking for! 

More information here: 
http://www.dension.com/iPhone-car-accessory/car-dock-for-iPhone ore here 
http://www.incarwebradio.com/?q=node/3 

Best regards 
Dension Support Team 

Anyhow, looking at the pinouts in the excellent posts in this thread, can anyone tell me if it is possible to simply connect an aux socket to pins 18, 19 and 20 to plug an ipod directly into it via the headphone jack? 
It'snot ideal, but in the UK, we appear to be clueless all round and Dension appear to only offer the suggestion that I sell my phone and get an iPhone and end up using FM modulation. 

I have read about the Ice link, should I just order one and know it will work? 
Getting the CD changer out isn't an issue as my local audio centre already did it once to take a look at the plug on the back. 

With best regards to all. 

Andy


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hello Andy: 

Welcome to the forum! 

I'm not familiar with the product you refer to, however, I know that some owners of MY 2003 to 2006 Phaetons (the first generation) have fitted a product called a 'Solisto' to their car, and this has worked. 

There are numerous discussions about this general topic in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category). I've posted direct links to some of them below. 

May I suggest you browse through these discussions, then post your question (again) onto the end of the discussion that you think is closest to the subject that you have raised? That will keep all the relevant information together in one place. 

Michael 

Retrofit iPod, XM Radio, or Sirius Radio Installation (includes wiring diagrams for phone retrofits)
....How to add an aftermarket XM radio or cell phone
....- integrating video display into the Phaeton infotainment system
....- integrating consumer electronics into the Phaeton sound system
....- iPod integration by way of FM modulation
....- iPod integration by way of 'Ice-Link' adapter
....- iPod integration by way of replacing CD player


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

rowleav said:


> Hello, please excuse my newness. I am in the UK and have just purchased a 2006 Phaeton. None of my local audio professionals can help me and Dension just sent an email saying that there were no Dension products available to link an iPod to the Phaeton due to a Technical reason. Here is a copy and paste of their response to my question of whether anything would fit.
> 
> Dear Customer,
> We do not have for this car any car specific solution, on technical reason!
> ...


 
Hi Andy and welcome, 

the simple answer to you question is YES. I have a 160gb iPod classic in the boot on permanent shuffle! Works fine but it cannot be controlled from on the car! You could route cabling (not the easiest job) and control directly from you iPod. Quality is excellent (I use lossless files). 
However you must have the TV with aux in. 
I am currently in the process of installing a Mac Mini in the boot running Front Row. This will give full control of music incl album art, as well as video (TV in motion needs to be installed for video to the infotainment unit). This is also relatively straight forward thanks to Jouko and Hugh's perseverance! It also allows me to clone my iTunes library (over 350gb as we speak) and have full access wherever I find myself and my Phaeton. It is also VERY cost effective. 
Any question feel free to ask (I don't have pics yet as the install is not yet complete). 

Stu


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Stu, this is fascinating stuff, good to find out that you are an Apple man and as your car is a similar age to mine it gives me hope of doing something similar (although not myself, I think that would not be a good idea!). 

I'll have to try and meet up with you on one of your drives down to the S of F to see a demo in the car! 

All best, 
Steven


----------



## rowleav (Jul 12, 2011)

Gentlemen, thank you for the warm welcome. I have read many of the FAQ's that Michael has listed and I will now go and read them again. 
Sadly, I don't have the TV unit. All I really need is a simple aux socket. The CD changer looks to be analogue and so those pins 18, 19 and 20 look likey to me. I haven't tried it as I kind of hoped that the chaps who took on this upgarde initially would be able to poit me in the right direction. 

In my area, we have a really reputable audio installer who had just fitted sone very tasty equuipment for me in the boot space, this has improved low end massively, but nothing at all for an ipod. He had the chager out and reckoned that the only connections he could see were analogue. 
Dension say no, even though he thinks it could work. He can't order one in because he can't send it back if it doesn't. 

I'll re-read the posts ad see what I can find out. Again Gents, thank you for the warm welcome. I can see I'm going to like it here. 

Very best wishes, 
Andy


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Andy, 

I don't have time right at the moment, but try Fiscon or Solisto I believe that they offer a cable that bypasses the CD changer or allows you to switch (manually) between the changer and the iPod. 
I'll have a dig around myself later and try to find the relevant thread. 
There is also a German company that I have details for that allow you to attach an iPod without the TV option, I'll look for their details too. *Remind me if I forget!!!!!* 

Stu


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Expoman said:


> Stu, this is fascinating stuff, good to find out that you are an Apple man and as your car is a similar age to mine it gives me hope of doing something similar (although not myself, I think that would not be a good idea!).
> 
> I'll have to try and meet up with you on one of your drives down to the S of F to see a demo in the car!
> 
> ...


 Steven, 

assuming you have the TV this is really easy! I don't know why people haven't done this previously. It would take you no more than a day to complete (once I have all the necessary cable power supply details finished) 

Stu


----------



## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Expoman said:


> ...this is fascinating stuff, good to find out that you are an Apple man and ....


 Hi Steven and all other Apple men, 
This is indeed fascinating stuff especially for Apple people trying to integrate Apple gadgets into the Phaeton. I might want to do that in the future, just like many other forum members. 

Since this thread is really only dealing with updating the Phaeton Navi to new RNS810, may I kindly suggest that you look again at what Michael suggested? (above and quoted below). This makes future searching and reading about specific subjects a lot easier for all fellow members. 



PanEuropean said:


> There are numerous discussions about this general topic in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category). I've posted direct links to some of them below.
> 
> May I suggest you browse through these discussions, then post your question (again) onto the end of the discussion that you think is closest to the subject that you have raised? That will keep all the relevant information together in one place.
> 
> ...


 Regards, 
Willem


----------



## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Oooh, sounds a bit daunting to me Stu............there seem to be many clever chaps on this excellent forum and I must be careful not to move out of my league! 

Best 
Steven


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi there... 

I moved to Macs recently, being a linux guy and finding in macs a linux system with easy interface (and many restrictions with which I can live however). 

However, being a computer scientist, I use my macs as linux machines, and am not at all versed into mac lore, but interested in putting some macs in my Phaeton of course... 

P.


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Zaphh said:


> Hi there...
> 
> I moved to Macs recently, being a linux guy and finding in macs a linux system with easy interface (and many restrictions with which I can live however).
> 
> ...


 
Pierre, 

I am NO computer scientist thats for sure!! I run everything by Mac now, home security, home automation, music and video servers etc etc. Alas no VAG.com for Mac (and I refuse to use Windows since their OS trashed my PC at least three times)!! 
However, the Mac Mini (pre 2009) is perfectly suited to the Phaeton, specialist power supply/management systems are readily available at reasonable cost.Very compact and easily installed. If you have the built in TV tuner, control is easy (Bluetooth with full desktop display on the infotainment screen)! A marriage made in heaven! 
The reason (before people ask) for the Mini being pre 2009 is that after that date the video output is digital only, whilst conversion can be carried out to make this compatible with the Phaeton screen, it is both costly (VERY) and adds another box drawing a current from the battery. 
Hope this gives you an insight, albeit a small one, at what you could achieve. 

Stu


----------



## Bigpopa (Jul 8, 2011)

I have been reading through the the various threads related to installing the RNS 810 into hte Phaetons with the J523 unit.

After looking into the point addressed by Theresias concerning the CAN bus protocol, I had a VAG-COm scan done on my Phaeton (MY2009) from Nov 08. It turn out that it does have the 2.0 protocol which me me think that the unit could possibly work in the car and communicate with the convenience and infotainment buses without problems.

I have discussed with an installer the possibility of putting it into the car. They don't want to tackle the cutting of cables.

I have looked in ETKA and ELSA to gather infromation on the pinouts and connectors, but unfortunately could no ascertain which wiring harnesses are used for the J523 and RNS 810. I would like to use these for reference to request a firm to make up a wiring adapter for the connection of the old J523 harness (ISO) to the new RNS 810 (Quadlock). 

I think what will make this a challenge is the point referenced by CLMims in producing a cable split from the T32c to make a harness for both the T24 connector 7 and the Climate control connector 6.

We then have the same for the CAN bus connector in the T32c which also would now have to go to the Quadlock connector 3.

I have already bought the RNS-810, trim, Bluetooth unit (7P6035730G) and am now trying to put the final piece of the puzzle together.

if someone can give me some insight on the harnesses currently used in both instances for the j523 and rns810, I will move on to my next phase and request the cable


for reference, here is the recent VAG-Com scan :

Friday,02,September,2011,18:09:37:23145
VCDS Version: Release 10.6.4
Data version: 20110418



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 3D - VW Phaeton D1
Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 07 08 09 11 13 15 16 17 18 19 23 27 28 29 2E
34 36 37 38 39 46 47 55 56 57 65 66 68 69 71 75 76 77

VIN: WVWZZZ3DZ98001438 Mileage: 15280km/9494miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (CEX) Labels: None
Part No SW: 3D0 907 401 E HW: 3D0 907 401 D
Component: 3.0TDI EDC17G000AG 0010 
 Revision: --H01--- Serial number: VWX3Z0H1783987
Coding: 0406002C191F0160
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2143FF8F8159

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09L-927-760.lbl
Part No SW: 09L 927 760 R HW: GS1 9.1 1.4 
Component: AG6 09L 3,0 TDI RdW 3603 
Revision: --H04--- Serial number: 4465708
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 46894C134837

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 3D0-614-517.lbl
Part No: 3D0 614 517 AK
Component: ESP 5.7 allrad H33 0047 
Coding: 0008356
Shop #: WSC 04014 000 00000
VCID: 6BDFDDA73315

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 909 139 D HW: 3D0 909 139 D
Component: Kessy 6850 
Revision: 00H22070 Serial number: VWX3Z0H1783987
Coding: 0004328
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2A5118A3FC6F

Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 
Component: ELV XXXX

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 06: Seat Mem. Pass Labels: 3D0-959-759.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 759 CA
Component: Sitzmemory D1 BF 1720 
Coding: 0000003
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 77F7F1D77F5D

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 007 BE
Component: ZAB COCKPIT 2257 
Coding: 0400505
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 5DBB837FFDA1

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 040 K
Component: Climatronic D1 2032 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2649EC93E877

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3D0-937-049.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 937 049 M HW: 3D0 937 049 M
Component: J519 6500 
Revision: -4004--- Serial number: --------------
Coding: 610C0000EB2115060000000000000000
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 346D06DB2EAB

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 3D0-909-601.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 601 E
Component: 0H Airbag 8.4E+ H12 0935 
Coding: 0012360
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 254BEB9F9571

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 7L6-953-549.lbl
Part No: 7L6 953 549 L
Component: J527 3601 
Coding: 0001012
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 4895422B4223

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 920 885 P HW: 3D0 920 885 P
Component: J285 KOMBI-INST. 5232 
Revision: KPH06V16 
Coding: 0007101
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 377731D73FDD

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 18: Aux. Heat Labels: 3D0-815-005.lbl
Part No: 3D0 815 005 AK
Component: Standheizung 3426 
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 66C9AC9328F7

1 Fault Found:
01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533) 
013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-7L.clb
Part No SW: 6N0 909 901 HW: 3D0 920 885 P
Component: J533 GW-K-CAN TP20 5232 
Coding: 7FF6F7AE331002
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: F0E54ACB9A33

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 553 C
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C3V0 1122 
Coding: 0005521
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2757E197EF7D

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 3D0-959-760.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 760 CA
Component: Sitzmemory D1 F 1720 
Coding: 0000004
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 6FE7C9B7070D

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation Labels: 3D0-919-887.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 887 M
Component: NAVIGATION 2217 
Coding: 0400000
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 3E7924F310E7

1 Fault Found:
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 38: Roof Electronics Labels: 3D0-907-135.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 135 D
Component: Dachmodul 0802 
Coding: 0004159
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 244DF69B9E4B

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 933 H
Component: 4X HSG 0201 
Coding: 0000040
Shop #: WSC 04014 202 93244
VCID: 356B3BDF25D1

Part No: 3D1 959 701 H
Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 0201

Part No: 3D1 959 702 H
Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 0201

Part No: 3D0 959 703 G
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 0201

Part No: 3D0 959 704 G
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 0201

Part No: 3D0 909 610 D
Component: 3N HDSG 2430

Part No: 7L0 907 719 A
Component: Neigungssensor 0020

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System Labels: 7Lx-035-4xx-47.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 465 B
Component: 08K-AUDIOVERST 0113 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2045FA8B8A53

1 Fault Found:
00870 - Bass Speaker Front Left (R21) 
011 - Open Circuit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Xenon Range Labels: 7L6-907-357-A.lbl
Part No SW: 7L6 907 357 C HW: 7L6 907 357 C
Component: AFS-Steuergeraet 0132 
Revision: 00H04000 Serial number: 
Coding: 2213953
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 3B7F2DE703F5

Part No: 7L6 941 329 A
Component: AFS-Lst.-Modul l 0004 
Coding: 00000033

Part No: 7L6 941 329 A
Component: AFS-Lst.-Modul r 0004 
Coding: 00000033

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 68: Wiper Electr. Labels: None
Part No: 3D1 955 119 B
Component: Front Wiper 3501 
Coding: 0013685
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 376832
VCID: 2855E2ABE263

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 71: Battery Charger Labels: 3D0-915-181.lbl
Part No: 3D0 915 181 D
Component: Batteriemanagement 2800 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 244DF69B9E4B

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 76: Park Assist Labels: 3D0-919-283.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 283 D
Component: 01 Einparkhilfe 0907 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2B5F1DA7F395

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## gekon111a (May 13, 2010)

Hi Bigpopa,
I am in the same situation as you - MY2009 from IX2008 and I would like to install RNS810.
I am not en expert, but it seams that it is difficult or not possible.
Please share with me your results, so I could use it.
Raf


----------



## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Bigpopa said:


> I have already bought the RNS-810, trim, Bluetooth unit (7P6035730G) and am now trying to put the final piece of the puzzle together.
> 
> if someone can give me some insight on the harnesses currently used in both instances for the j523 and rns810, I will move on to my next phase and request the cable


 You can find the harnesses of both control heads in *Post 21* of this thread (RNS810) and the J523 pin-out can be found in post 26 of the same thread.
I really admire your courage to actually exchange the current J523 control head for the newer RNS-810. 
I went through your controller list and noted that you have the 8-channel sound system, which is not different from the standard sound system in earlier Phaetons with the old CAN protocol.

But what worries me most is that the new RNS-810 has 4 speaker outputs, where the old J523 just has two line outputs. These two are for left and right only and then the sound controller takes care of splitting it into front/rear as well as providing the 8 separate speaker channels. The RNS-810 is apparently intended for 4 speakers systems, i.e. 2 at the front and two rear. This implies that the RNS810 has 4 built-in amplifiers where it does not need an additional sound controller. Each of the 4 connected speaker (systems) make consist of 2 or more speakers with each its own cross-over filter. So you may end up with exchanging all your 8 speakers for speaker systems which are intended to be used with this new RNS810. 
I guess that this is one other pitfall, in addition to the protocol change.

Meanwhile, I suggest that you do something about your broken bass speaker, as the diagnostic scan indicated. This already improves the quality of the sound a lot. I had both bass speakers blown and fixing them made a day and night difference.

Willem


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

WillemBal said:


> ...I suggest that you do something about your broken bass speaker, as the diagnostic scan indicated. This already improves the quality of the sound a lot. I had both bass speakers blown and fixing them made a day and night difference.


I agree with Willem, I had an inoperative bass speaker in the front door for a long time (I was not aware of it), and when it was fixed, the difference was amazing.

We have a post that explains how to carry out the most common fix for the front door bass speaker problem here: Repairing Inoperative Bass speaker in front driver or passenger door (inside door panel removal, fixing broken speaker wire).

Michael

*Broken Wire (typical) - Front Door Bass Speaker*









*Michael & Willem - June 2011, Netherlands*


----------



## Bigpopa (Jul 8, 2011)

I saw the speaker in the scan. I hadn't noticed it and switched my balance over to the right side. And behold, the speaker wasn't working (thanks Vag-Com). My car is still under warranty and i thought i would go to the dealer and have them sort it out.

I used the info from Post 21 to validate the cabling I was looking up in ELSA. But what i couldn't find were the actual part numbers for the cabling harness for the 8 pin climate control on the back of the RNS810. i was looking at illustration 971-80 -82 to get the reference and it was like spaghetti. 
8Lo 972 977 G seems to fit the 32 pin for the J523. 7L6 972 726 for the 26 pin to th RNS 810. I thought the 8 pin might be 3B7 035 447 but thats were I got lost.

As these were the references I wanted to supply to the cable supplier, i thought it might be beneficial if the references to the actual cables were available to insure there are no mistakes with taking the right connector


----------



## Bigpopa (Jul 8, 2011)

*Finally I now know the answer*

The DSP vs BAP protocol is the killer. 

The radio portion would work, the climate control would work (connector 6), the navigation would work, but all of the drive canbus controllers would not be able to recognize the BAP protocol (Canbus version 2.0). It seems I have Canbus version 1.6. To change all the controllers to recognize this protocol would be a time consuming and costly work.


----------



## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Sorry to hear it didn't go very well.

Mind if I ask more detail about what didn't work and how it was failing? Specific things that you couldn't talk to or control, fault codes you saw, etc? Are you sure this wasn't as simple as re-coding of the CAN gateway to trigger an installed module list refresh?


----------



## JockMacMad (May 18, 2011)

An alternative would be to find a CanBus bridge see the Canshack CanBus 1.6 to 2.0 Gateway Adapter:-

http://www.canshack.de/manuals/canAdaptorEnglish.pdf

Some guys on a Tourareg site have used this to fit an RNS510.


----------



## Bigpopa (Jul 8, 2011)

*Update*

I contacted canshack.de. In the end they were able to modify the software for the canbus adapter for use in the Phaeton. It's not 100% sure all functions will work but I will update after installing


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi all,

I am resurrecting this, sorry!

Next year my SWB V10 (soon to be my only Phaeton) will be COMPLETELY overhauled. She is currently the wrong side of 170k miles and counting. I have had ZERO significant failures, but I feel I'm now on borrowed time, so, eew suspension, rebuilt (by ZF), and updated, transmission, FULL engine rebuild, new turbos, new ancilliaries etc. with power upped to approx 450 HP and 900 nm torque.

Leather will be retrimmed, all woodwork will be colour changed to burr maple in matte finish. New door seals all round etc.

Now the problem, I intend (therefore I will) to fit the RNS810. I am assuming that if I replace the instruments binnacle and associate controllers that it "should" work.

As has been documented on a few threads the Phaeton is still using TP 1.6 so everything should still be talking the same language.

Any further info on this subject would be GREATLY appreciated.

I know I must be mad, but I tried a new 3.0 V6 a few weeks ago and it's really not for me. I would appreciate a few more m's per g but I could not sacrifice the other attributes of the GP0 V10.

Yours 
:screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy:


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

We'll be following this transformation with interest! I hope you keep us posted.

regards
M


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

n968412L said:


> We'll be following this transformation with interest! I hope you keep us posted.
> 
> regards
> M


I think getting the engine/transmission sorted will be the easy part.............

Stu


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm right behind you in support! (Just out of arm's reach!) 

I read a book about CAN bus once, does that count?

Chris


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Paximus said:


> I'm right behind you in support! (Just out of arm's reach!)
> 
> I read a book about CAN bus once, does that count?
> 
> Chris


Well,

it does make you far far more knowledgeable than me! (But I didn't doubt that)!!

First appointment is Wednesday 14th November at Torque Developments in Essex https://www.tdi-plc.com/ Preliminary meeting to discuss the feasibility and scope of the engine rebuild. This is hopefully the company that will "divorce" the body from the running gear.

I will start a new thread on Thursday so that I can document each stage of the "evolution". I am looking at about a twelve month process all being well.

Stu


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

They look to be a serious outfit, ISO 9001 etc, very interesting. Do they subcontract to the racing teams?

I see a new palletted V10 lists at £11,951 + VAT in base (no turbos, manifolds etc) which I didn't think was too bad, considering. But that's in stock tune, of course.

Do you still have a "B on your bonnet" about a little stop-gap motor meanwhile? 

Chris


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Paximus said:


> They look to be a serious outfit, ISO 9001 etc, very interesting. Do they subcontract to the racing teams?
> 
> I see a new palletted V10 lists at £11,951 + VAT in base (no turbos, manifolds etc) which I didn't think was too bad, considering. But that's in stock tune, of course.
> 
> ...


Hi Chris,

yep, the flying B is still on schedule, although the dealer tried to tempt me with an AM something or other that had VOLVO switches :what:

Stu


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi,
I would like to raise a quetion that might be too obvious to some of you guys, but...
Other than aesthetics, is it really worth the hassle replacing the original ZAB unit for the newest RNS 810? Does it offer so many improvements?
Cheers.

Gabriel


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> Hi,
> I would like to raise a quetion that might be too obvious to some of you guys, but...
> Other than aesthetics, is it really worth the hassle replacing the original ZAB unit for the newest RNS 810? Does it offer so many improvements?
> Cheers.
> ...


Gabriel,

it is far easier to use, the nav system is eons ahead, DAB radio, Bluetooth, etc etc. IF it might be possible it WILL be a PITA for sure.

Aesthetically I prefer the original though.

Stu


----------



## cata1569 (Jun 25, 2012)

How much RNS 810?
Cata.


----------



## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> Next year my SWB V10 (soon to be my only Phaeton) will be COMPLETELY overhauled. She is currently the wrong side of 170k miles and counting. I have had ZERO significant failures, but I feel I'm now on borrowed time, so, eew suspension, rebuilt (by ZF), and updated, transmission, FULL engine rebuild, new turbos, new ancilliaries etc. with power upped to approx 450 HP and 900 nm torque.
> 
> Leather will be retrimmed, all woodwork will be colour changed to burr maple in matte finish. New door seals all round etc.


I like!

It seems like there should really be more of a market for this sort of thing, although I guess it's easier if there's more volume. We're seeing it now here in the US for a few models. Ford made a model called the Crown Victoria, a full-size sedan, that was immensely popular in law enforcement and for taxicabs. Big, reliable, long-lasting. When Ford discontinued it a few years ago, a market sprung up for whole-car rehabs. They take your Crown Vic, swap out the entire drive-train and suspension, swap out the seats and (I think) the carpet, clean it up and give it back to you. They take the old components and have them professionally rebuilt, have the seats re-upholstered, etc and later they go into some other Crown Vic being rehabbed.



> Now the problem, I intend (therefore I will) to fit the RNS810. I am assuming that if I replace the instruments binnacle and associate controllers that it "should" work.
> 
> As has been documented on a few threads the Phaeton is still using TP 1.6 so everything should still be talking the same language.


Anything can be done with enough money, but I don't think it's well-understood yet how much money you'd have to throw at the problem. After a certain point, you would be better off dropping your V10 drive-train into a new chassis. I think the instrument cluster has to be swapped, because I think the suspension controls move there. That affects everything else since it's the CAN gateway and it's involved in the Immobilizer security scheme. There's a poster here who documented a partial retrofit of new GP2 auto-steering headlights into his older Phaeton. As part of that process he bought a new instrument cluster. I think he had very little success dropping that new cluster into his older car, but I'm not sure how hard he tried. You might need a new KESSY, might need new ECUs (or need Immobilizer disabled by a tuner), might need all kinds of other new control modules.

I think you should start with a VCDS auto-scan of a newer Phaeton with a working RNS810 so we can see which control modules it can successfully talk to. Anybody here got one?

Jason


----------



## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

Am I the only one thinking that maybe it would be a darn sight easier to buy a later car with all the goodies you want and transplant the rebuilt v10 into it ?


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

8secondquarters said:


> Am I the only one thinking that maybe it would be a darn sight easier to buy a later car with all the goodies you want and transplant the rebuilt v10 into it ?


Here's the rub,

Its well known that I "am not keen" on GP3 styling, personal I know but the more I see them the better they look, but I still don't think it's for me.

Tried a GP2 a couple of weeks back, if it had been the first Phaeton I had looked at I would never have owned one. It felt cheap in comparison to the GP0. Things like seat belts that are "conventional" rather than our GP0 fancy fangled affairs, headlights that should only be seen on an Audi, etc.

Just little things really. I suppose I am spoilt, I have two at the moment, both with just about every conceivable option available in the UK, so finding a later V6 so well specced is nigh on impossible, plus you have the similar problem if the drivetrain is transplanted. Namely the canbus in the GP2 is unlikely to want to play with the engine/gearbox!

Six and two threes. I even asked VW if they could build a brand new GP0 V10! I'm not sure they were "keen" on the idea!

But, keep the suggestions coming, if, as I suspect, the RNS 810 is the only real issue I guess I could live without it. 

Stu


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

jyoung8607 said:


> I like!
> 
> It seems like there should really be more of a market for this sort of thing.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jason,

I can easily get a scan of a GP3, don't know why I didn't think to do that first!!

I'll sort it next week and post it and my project cars' scan too.

Stu


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> Six and two threes. I even asked VW if they could build a brand new GP0 V10! I'm not sure they were "keen" on the idea!


Building a brand new one, probably not.

But, I read somewhere the Transparent Factory and its staff also process lease-returned Phaetons in Germany before they go back out to dealers. I tried for a bit and I can't find the thread where it was mentioned. Maybe Michael could verify? Anyway, it might not be totally out of the question for VW to recondition your GP0 for you if you got it down there.

Edit: Sort-of mentioned in this thread

Jason


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

jyoung8607 said:


> Building a brand new one, probably not.
> 
> But, I read somewhere the Transparent Factory and its staff also process lease-returned Phaetons in Germany before they go back out to dealers. I tried for a bit and I can't find the thread where it was mentioned. Maybe Michael could verify? Anyway, it might not be totally out of the question for VW to recondition your GP0 for you if you got it down there.
> 
> ...


Thank you Jason.

Stu


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi,

can anyone tell me if the GP0 uses DDP or BAP to communicate with the CAN????

Don't ask I'm getting VERY confused!!

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Sebastian at Ross-Tech said this:


_Basically the RNS810 is a Super-RNS510 and thats where the trouble starts. The early Phaetons up to MY 2006 used a CAN Databus Version TP 1.6 and with MY 2007 they switched to TP 2.0. Technically an RNS510 can be made partly work with TP 1.6 with an adapter which translates the messages/signals but it will never have 100% functionality.

Some of the information from the radio/nav gets displayed in the instrument cluster and while *earlier models used a Display Data Protocol (DDP)* on top of CAN (TP 1.6 as well as 2.0), the newer model years switched to the new Operating and Display Protocol (BAP). Needless to say that the two don't mix well... So the RNS510 can be switched between DDP and BAP but the RNS810 was never sold with DDP to begin with so I would not count on the possibility that it can be switched._


But I expect you read that already.

Chris


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Paximus said:


> Sebastian at Ross-Tech said this:
> 
> 
> _Basically the RNS810 is a Super-RNS510 and thats where the trouble starts. The early Phaetons up to MY 2006 used a CAN Databus Version TP 1.6 and with MY 2007 they switched to TP 2.0. Technically an RNS510 can be made partly work with TP 1.6 with an adapter which translates the messages/signals but it will never have 100% functionality.
> ...


Chris,

I am of the opinion (I read it here somewhere) that even the GP3 uses TP1.6. I had an interesting email from a German company stating that if the GP0 uses DDP they CAN supply an adapter to enable communication (they DID NOT state the degree of functionality however)!!

But thanks for the info re DDP though, you are a treasure!!

Stu


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Stu,
When I run the VCDS scan tool on my 2008 Phaeton, I am sure that some of the controllers comunicate using TP1.6. 
Right now I cannot recall exactly which ones do, but I can have a look and report back if you want.

Gabriel


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Hi Stu,

I agree with Chris. There was a discussion with Theresias about a year ago in the same thread, near this post: Post 38

While you deeply wished you could replace the current J523 with an RNS810, did you ever consider to lift the control head to an even higher standard? This year, some car audio manufacturers came out with a new system, called Mirrorlink. It allows you to duplicate whatever applications you are running on your smartphone either hard wired or via a Bluetooth.
I have been doing some research about it and I THINK it is possible to direct the "old" video (with info about the HVAC system, TPMS, ride height adjustment etc.) to the new screen.
The Mirrorlink is a touch screen, accepting all kinds of devices, including additional gadgets like rear view camera's, etc. The video input can be used to accept the Phaeton's video TFT (that will me some work to sort out), so that the Mirrorlink's touch screen displays whatever you see right now when you handle controls. In other words, the current functionality of the display would not be jeopardized at all.

The biggest problem would be the fairly large installation depth of these units. It would require some (hardware) modification of the current control head. Good thing is that these devices come in the same dimensions, i.e. 6 1/2 and 7".

You can read more about it right here: Sony-Car-Stereo-XAV701HD

Willem


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

WillemBal said:


> Hi Stu,
> 
> I agree with Chris. There was a discussion with Theresias about a year ago in the same thread, near this post: Post 38
> 
> ...


Okay Willem,

you can fit it for me when I see you in February!!

Seriously though I will investigate too.

Thanks
Stu


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## Nick900 (Nov 13, 2007)

Hi Willem / Stu,

DId you get any further with the investigation into using a mirrorlink head unit?

Warm Regards

Nick


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## alexholmes (Dec 16, 2012)

Itzmann said:


> This is a great thread to hold *both* the RNS-810 pinouts and the J523 pinouts so that OEMpl.us or someone else can make the wire which would allow the exchange of these units.
> 
> Here are the pinouts for J523:
> 
> ...


Sorry to drag up an old post but does anyone have a wiring diagram for connector 6 at the back of the J523. I am attempting an install of a Parrot Mki9200 using an SOT-1002 iso adaptor and want to check compatibility before I connect it up. Full pictures and directions will of course be posted if I am sucessful.


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## alexholmes (Dec 16, 2012)

Found it... Will post an update over the next few days if successful.

Connector 6 DIN specification, same as a Golf, Jetta, Passat, and probably a Mercedes as well...
Multiple connector 6, 8-pin for Front Information Display Control Head Control Module J523 
Again, keep in mind that 'not in use' means 'not in use in North America'.
1 - not in use
2 - Telephone mute switch If you supply ground to this pin, then the radio will mute.
3 - not in use
4 - not in use
5 - Terminal 30, positive
6 - not in use
7 - Terminal 30, positive
8 - Terminal 31, negative


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## Pheaton04 (Jan 29, 2013)

*Rns 810*

Hi All, 

I'm new to all this and i got My Vw 2004 just a few month ago.
I do want to change the unit and wondering if the MirrorLink worked?

Tx
Rob


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## ErikO (Jun 14, 2014)

*I'd also like to upgrade my Phaeton Head Unit....*

So, did anybody find ANY solution to this well-investigated mess yet?

Regards.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

ErikO said:


> So, did anybody find ANY solution to this well-investigated mess yet?
> 
> Regards.


Several people have looked into it, myself included. It boils down to this:

1) The RNS 810 needs a newer instrument cluster to work correctly.

2) Due to CAN protocol changes around that time, the newer instrument cluster will probably hate absolutely everything else in the car.

So, it's probably not going to fly absent some extremely expensive or extremely heroic custom measures.

Jason


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## Phae Phae (Apr 22, 2008)

Bumping this thread because it seems like in the last year, we now have resources to change the cluster in the MK5 from red to white/color - or in other words from MK5 to MK6 gen, gaining BAP. So perhaps since it seems like people were able to defeat the encryption of the MK6 cluster, it might not be too far of a stretch to say the the GP2 Phaeton cluster isn't impossible. The only real difference is that fewer people are interested in the Phaeton platform.


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## august125 (Feb 21, 2015)

That, and I don't have room in my budget for all the difficult to source, expensive parts. I'm probably in the minority of Phaeton owners in that regard, though.


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Having owned P's with the J523 and then the RNS810, I personally wouldn't bother putting all that time, effort and expense in to swap them over. 

The J523 (year 2008) was pretty good, the RNS810 is better but not hugely. I particularly miss the "Trip" page that the J523 had.


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## noname123 (Aug 23, 2016)

Sorry for resurrecting this thread but I've been involved in the RNS810 development. As written above it's quite a task to get it working, even if possible. The new protocol (BAP vs DDP) requires rewiring of some of the par carts, a new gateway module, a new dashboard, possibly new steering controls, new AC controller (I think), possibly new amplifier. Assuming all is fine, the gateway requires specific coding for all the components. That's just the top of my head but it's likely to assume that everything that was on DDP before was converted to BAP, though the old amplifier and dashboard might still work, if the firmware supports still supports the legacy protocol. To get all the nice features you also need a TV module, the RVC module, GSM/3G module, BT high module.
The easier way is to try to integrate RNS-510 but I suspect a lot of stuff will not work and menus like AC will be lost. There are also specific EQ curves for each car. Also the screen is smaller and the buttons do not match the Phaeton theme and specifications.
I command anyone embarking on a project like this but it's close to impossible unless you are willing to spend thousands of hours into it. It might be easier to get hold of an RNS-810 and rewrite the firmware from scratch to support DDP.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

If you have unlimited funds, you could try stealing everything from a late model Bentley Continental Flying Spur.

It would be a very expensive gamble _and_ you would have to part out the Bentley and everybody would think you were crazy. :screwy:


I would need to play with the infotainment on the Bentley to see if it had the same functions as a GP0 Phaeton. 

You would also have to get an RNS 810 and the wood from a later Phaeton.

-Eric


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## noname123 (Aug 23, 2016)

The Bentleys (Flying Spur, GT, Continental Sport, ...) use an RNS810 derivative and electronics-wise are almost identical to GP2, AFAIK. So they're incompatible with GP0 and GP1.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

noname123 said:


> The Bentleys (Flying Spur, GT, Continental Sport, ...) use an RNS810 derivative and electronics-wise are almost identical to GP2, AFAIK. So they're incompatible with GP0 and GP1.


Well, my diabolical plan would be to strip both cars (the Phaeton and Flying Spur) and transfer the wiring harness and all controllers from the Bentley. Then I would have a modern harness and controllers with full capability to use the RNS 810.

I would do this to 4-seater W12s to "justify" the expense. Some of the Bentley Flying Spur interiors look very similar to Phaeton Individual interiors. Many of the Flying Spurs also have wooden picnic tables and video screens on the seat backs.


-Eric


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## noname123 (Aug 23, 2016)

Since both cars are manually assembled probably the harnesses are custom-made so they might not be compatible. Also the [new] gateway would have to be recoded so that it know the old modules. At least that's what I suspect, it's been a good few years since I last got involved. Not sure if the A/C controller is compatible as well between cars, but I suspect it is. With the exception of NAV, dashboard, possibly steering wheel controls, audio amplifier, gateway and A/C everything else should be the same at the infotainment level. That includes engine signals, seat/mirror memory, power on/off signals.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

noname123 said:


> Since both cars are manually assembled probably the harnesses are custom-made so they might not be compatible. Also the [new] gateway would have to be recoded so that it know the old modules. At least that's what I suspect, it's been a good few years since I last got involved. Not sure if the A/C controller is compatible as well between cars, but I suspect it is. With the exception of NAV, dashboard, possibly steering wheel controls, audio amplifier, gateway and A/C everything else should be the same at the infotainment level. That includes engine signals, seat/mirror memory, power on/off signals.


That's just one reason it would be a huge gamble. Actually, if I did do it, I would transfer all modules (see my last post). I would be taking the twin turbo W12, so I would need those controllers as well. 

I'm not sure how I would deal with the instrument panel. I'm sure the instruments, KESSY and steering column would all have to be from the same car. Whether the old KESSY components were "forward compatible" is probably a deal maker or deal breaker. 

If the instruments were transferable to the old cluster that might help. 

One could adapt the Bentley dash, but I much prefer the Phaeton dashboard. At a certain point it just gets pointless. 

-Eric


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## marduksoft (May 14, 2018)

*done. Upgrated from ZAB to RNS810 and instruments cluster*

Hello, after 3 months of research and schemes on ELSA, I managed to install RNS810 instead of ZAB. it's a lot of work but it can be done. The car in question is a Phaton 2008. I changed the Instruments Cluster witch is also the Gateway, the Central Electronics module, the Central Conveinence Module, the parking sensor module, the amplification station, the bluetooth module, and the climate module, although it worked ok with the old one. everything works ok, suspension, radio, climate, music, navigation, bluetooth.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

That's a substantial mod, congratulations! :beer:

I invite you to document some of your work here, it would add a lot of understanding, and this forum is well-enough known to be one place people would look for this type of information.

Thanks,
Chris


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Nice work! It's a little more involved again if you want to upgrade from a pre 2007 car, more modules to change .


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## CallumCarr (Oct 15, 2018)

Ceylon said:


> Nice work! It's a little more involved again if you want to upgrade from a pre 2007 car, more modules to change .


Am I right in thinking this is because they updated to a new version of can-bus in 2007 - I think I remember reading it coincided with the facelift and newer DVD Nav system?

In that case is it just the modules that are different? I'd always assumed they must have a totally updated loom.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

CallumCarr said:


> Am I right in thinking this is because they updated to a new version of can-bus in 2007 - I think I remember reading it coincided with the facelift and newer DVD Nav system?
> 
> In that case is it just the modules that are different? I'd always assumed they must have a totally updated loom.


It could be that VW supplemented the main harness with Fiber Optic cables for the upgraded bus. I guess they could have stuck with copper but I have no idea. 

That's one reason I want to get a manual that covers all years. I am going to budget for the one mentioned in my thread.


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## A-P59 (Feb 20, 2021)

AudianerA6 said:


> Any chances? I own the old Navi with CD System, so the really old one.
> thanks


Hi, I am new here. Have 2011 3.0Tdi Phaeton and it is produced without Navi and BT for phone connection. What are my options to have those features?
Bigthanks for everyone


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

A-P59 said:


> Hi, I am new here. Have 2011 3.0Tdi Phaeton and it is produced without Navi and BT for phone connection. What are my options to have those features?
> Bigthanks for everyone


RNS 810 Removal & Bluetooth installation


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## Lukas Kurtansky (6 mo ago)

Hi Pan European,

I am not sure what is the time in Canada, so not sure if you are asleep or not..but i would like to ask you for a help if you could please. I have had my Phaeton 2009-2010 model for several years now and i buy most of the spare parts myself and let VW authorised dealer to install it. I now struggle a bit as my car for the first time few weeks ago just completely shut down and they phoned me from VW dealership where i recovered it a week ago that after hours of diagnosing the problem, they found what was the cause for the engine to shut down. it is my Engine control module/unit under the windscreen shield and it got flooded as a result of water channels that are responsible for draining the water on both sides of windshield were blocked, water accumulated found its way thru the holes of the windshield wipers and flooded the unit. so far the bill for diagnosis is around £450 and they said that the new module is £2000 from them. I OF COURSE WANT IT CHEEPER as I always do and get the code to buy it myself and let them install it but i can not find new one on the internet so far. they are all used. so my question is, Would You happen to know where I can order it myself? I know it is Bosch manufacturer and the VW code i found for it (as of course VW dealership said it is company policy not to tell me the code as they try to make it for me as hard as possible) 3D0 907 401 E . or the other code which is I think Bosch code is 3911035570 . I live in the UK so some UK market compatible if that matters too. Thank You very much. it would be better to email me if you could help PLEASE PLEASE but if not, i am great-full for any reply anywhere . thank You. Lukas

[email protected]


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

You might have better luck searching for 3D0907401E.

I may be wrong but I think it has to be matched to the car like the Keys and the KESSY.

If it's like the KESSY, matching it to the Phaeton requires a dealer. There is no code for doing it yourself.

There is a test and controller matching system you can buy but the last time I looked it was around $5,000.00 USD and it may or may not work.

Speaking of the KESSY, that's usually what gets flooded if the sunroof drains are backed up. It would be prudent to check that also.

Seach for KESSY.

The Keyless Start retrofit thread shows how to get to the KESSY to check for moisture or water.

I don't know if it's on the left side on UK cars or if it's always on the Driver's Side.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> There is no code for doing it yourself.


If by "code" you mean part number, my dealer will give me part numbers. The part number 3D0907401E says it's for a 3.0 L Phaeton. 

North Americans only got the 4.2 V8 or the 6.0 W12. 

The VWOA parts site doesn't even show the 3D0907401E. My dealer can't get parts for other markets. I think other North American VW retailers might be able to get it but it would be a lot easier to get it in England.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Lukas,

In the early days, a replacement engine ECU arrived fresh from VW, was programmed into the car by the dealership using a remote link to the factory to set up the security certificates for the drivetrain canbus, then the ECU locked itself and could no longer be security programmed. So it wouldn't work in another identical vehicle unless all the other paired ECUs were also swapped out with it.

Today, knowledge is a bit wider, and I see that companies such as CarTech Electronics in Cornwall or ECUTesting in Derbyshire have the capacity to reprogram ECUs at less than a quarter of the price of dealer parts.


Chris


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## Lukas Kurtansky (6 mo ago)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> You might have better luck searching for 3D0907401E.
> 
> I may be wrong but I think it has to be matched to the car like the Keys and the KESSY.
> 
> ...





53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> If by "code" you mean part number, my dealer will give me part numbers. The part number 3D0907401E says it's for a 3.0 L Phaeton.
> 
> North Americans only got the 4.2 V8 or the 6.0 W12.
> 
> The VWOA parts site doesn't even show the 3D0907401E. My dealer can't get parts for other markets. I think other North American VW retailers might be able to get it but it would be a lot easier to get it in England.






53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> You might have better luck searching for 3D0907401E.
> 
> I may be wrong but I think it has to be matched to the car like the Keys and the KESSY.
> 
> ...


Hi,

thank You. I got wrong number. the Part.no is the same, just ending G instead of E. so 3D0907401G ..my wrong..when i sent You the message, i did not have it confirmed with the VW garage where my car is. there were three types. all the same part number just the ending was different : A / E or G. I thought it was the “E” one, but I phoned the garage just to get of them the confirmation of the part number and he corrected me into the “G” one...I knew it was not the “A” as that was older model i think, the one with the very basic “non-touch screen” before it got refreshed..But i might be wrong..anyway..phoned the VW and asked him wether he would be alright to fit used ECU and he said YES, but it is on me, therefore they wont guarantee wether it is going to work with my car and also they wont give me any warranty of course. And what surprise me here is, that it seems to be for the first time, when VW garage (dealership) is not trying to overprice me with their new car parts. They quoted £2000 and from my experience I can get everything for the half price at least but this time seems to be not the case. One other garage gave me price of £2300 for the part and I found it on the internet brand new for £1990 , so it seems like that bloody ECU is really expensive!!! I found one used ECU in Spain for around £450 (they drive left hand side, so the opposite) one on ebay.co.uk for the same price but not sure wether seller is from UK as the delivery time is suspiciously long, between 26july and some 10th august or something ridiculous like that. I would like to know wether it matters to have used ECU from left hand side car the one from Spain to be compatible with my UK one which is right hand side. I think I will check the sunroof drain channels on my car wether it is blocked or not....OH NOOO, WAIT, I HAVE NOT GOT SUNROOF!!!! neither do I have keyless retrofit ..I do not have keyless entry neither go..:/ got used to by now.. thank You very much for Your reply !!!!


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## Lukas Kurtansky (6 mo ago)

Hi Chr


Paximus said:


> Hi Lukas,
> 
> In the early days, a replacement engine ECU arrived fresh from VW, was programmed into the car by the dealership using a remote link to the factory to set up the security certificates for the drivetrain canbus, then the ECU locked itself and could no longer be security programmed. So it wouldn't work in another identical vehicle unless all the other paired ECUs were also swapped out with it.
> 
> ...


Hi Chriss,

thank you for your message. VW confirmed me that they will install even used one but without warranty. I looked at that ECU thing to find out what it is and i understand that if I buy used one, it will come with pre-installed setting (from previous Phaeton) and VW dealer should be able to reprogram it to my specification. Am i right or not?? are You saying that it will need more than just ECU replacement? I can get used for £450 from ebay,,,i am not sure wether to risk it or wether to let VW to get it themselves brand new for £2000...also when I try to google it, there are many results that come up advertising “repairing ECUs” ..i was thinking: what if my ECU is repairable!!!! but then, it is in their garage already ..i would have to go there, tell them to get it out for me to take it wherever they MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT repair it. i Have got experience with VW not very keen to repair parts, rather replace parts. I understand that that is the second half of the business to sell me their parts, but one quick story. My main screen, the satnav screen stopped working. or rather went into this “Loop mode” when after switching it on, it says its usual : “Welcome to Volkswagen” and then instead of loading the menu and all of it, it went blank and back to the “Welcome to Volkswagen”. It never loaded into the main menu. So i thought, well, seems like software problem and if not that, maybe little worse, something physically with hardware..I was in for a shock when the guy at VW came back to me to tell me that they tried to reboot it but they could not go thru as my RNS switches itself off in that loop before their programme can even diagnose it or go thru the reboot sequence or something like that...and so they can not fix it, only replace it..I asked him how much for replacement (altho it already sounded so ridiculous as it has not been smashed with hammer and surely inside of it, the RNS 810 is just almost as any PC, wright? Motherboard, hard drive, processor, maybe ram, sound or graphic card integrated or not,,lots of cables around and maybe most of it is just plug&play or so...And he said, replacement will be £4000 !! labour not included )) HA !!! i thought he is joking! HE WAS NOT! So i ended up driving for about a month (or little longer) as I could not find anyone who fixes these things.It was the time when i realised that the world we live in has shifted from good old traditional fixing broken things to just replacing them with new ones. Horrible consume world..I guess two decades ago, where I am from, there would be plentiful of tradesmen , some sort of car electrician technician in their houses in basement or garage capable of diagnosing the fault and replace whatever was broken soldering here and there....i found one in the UK but after reading bad review of one guy who left his car with them with promise of just few days ended up without the car for over month, no answers etc...But then i found one in Spain and one in Germany and because I am always paranoid, i had to go to Google maps to go to street view to see wether the address is not some mail box in the middle of nowhere and found ordinary street with houses , seeming to be some little man with small family business in his garage or so...so i decided to risk it, check the manuals how to take the RNS out step by step, contacted the German guy , packed it carefully in layers and layers and layers of bubble wrap, included the “locking code/password from the unit + the original software CD. He mentioned also to save anything from the 80 gb hard - drive in case he will have to go full “wipe-out”... Van collected it around 12am and I had an email from him next day at some ridiculous morning hours around 6am saying that my unit is fixed and ready to be dispatched back to me as soon as he receives the payment. I had it back next day, afternoon, all an all the whole process of dismantling it out, wrapping, sending and getting it back was around 48 hours and about 380 Euros including shipping!! MAN, how happy I was when i plugged it back, inserting the key into the ignition into position 1, ,,,Welcome to Volkswagen ,,,,,and then the menu i have not seen in weeks, hearing the sound coming out of the speakers!!! My CAR IS BACK!! plus all the music on hard drive remained...So now Iam thinking, SHOULD I PAY them £2000 or could I possibly repeat something simmilar as with the RNS 810 and the German Guy....????? Is Spanish ECU FROM left hand drive compatible with my right hand drive? and if yes, You mentioned something like possibility of me needing to replace more than just Engine control unit? ..more control units???? 
thank You Chriss

Lukas


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

It probably depends on your dealer if they would allow you to remove your ECU or ECUs (for W12 and V10) but it sounds like they would probably match a rebuilt or even a used ECU to your car. 

If they won't allow you to send yours in for rebuilding, I'd try to buy a repaired ECU and use yours as a core return.

As I speculated in the Concept thread, I think car companies don't allow dealers to repair stuff like controllers because if a repaired part fails on the road, it may cause fatalities. There is probably an ECE standard and likely an NHTSA standard. 

Car companies don't have the electronics repair facilities with ESD precautions to safely repair electronic parts at dealers. I don't think they can even repair starters at new car dealers. It's not all about profits. They could replace a few $ worth of brushes and clean up a starter and charge a few hundred just for the repair. 

They may have a certified electronic repair facility for the VAG group in which case they would have rebuilt electronic parts for sale through the parts department. If not, then you'd have to get the ECU repaired at an electronics repair shop which hopefully follows all of the ESD precautions. 

The company that made the ECU may or may not have reconditioned ECUs or even new ECUs. For instance, I know you can get new Valeo headlight controllers without visiting any dealer. I have seen the same Valeo part number advertised for Phaeton and Volvo and other cars.


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## nonameneeded (2 mo ago)

noname123 said:


> Since both cars are manually assembled probably the harnesses are custom-made so they might not be compatible. Also the [new] gateway would have to be recoded so that it know the old modules. At least that's what I suspect, it's been a good few years since I last got involved. Not sure if the A/C controller is compatible as well between cars, but I suspect it is. With the exception of NAV, dashboard, possibly steering wheel controls, audio amplifier, gateway and A/C everything else should be the same at the infotainment level. That includes engine signals, seat/mirror memory, power on/off signals.


hi, is there a way to talk to you privately? thanks


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## jolySong (1 mo ago)

OEMplus.com said:


> *Progress!*
> 
> We have the unit in and it's working (so far). We get the navigation functions, radio, button illumination, etc., but the climate controls do not work yet.
> 
> ...


Hello, I hava a car with 06 phaeton. I want to upgrad j523 to rns810, Is your suspension control system working properly? thisks


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## jolySong (1 mo ago)

CLMims said:


> 004 J523 连接器 6（8 针）#07 - 端子 30 [+]......2008+ RNS-810 连接器 6（8 针）#01 端子 30 [+]
> 2004 J523连接器1（32针）*#16* - CAN高，舒适......2008+ RNS-810连接器6（8针）#02 *CAN高*
> 2004 J523连接器1（32针）*#32* - CAN低，舒适......2008+ RNS-810连接器6（8针）#03 *CAN低*
> 2004 J523 连接器 6（8 针）#08 - 端子 31 [-].......
> [/引用]





marduksoft said:


> *done. Upgrated from ZAB to RNS810 and instruments cluster*
> 
> Hello, after 3 months of research and schemes on ELSA, I managed to install RNS810 instead of ZAB. it's a lot of work but it can be done. The car in question is a Phaton 2008. I changed the Instruments Cluster witch is also the Gateway, the Central Electronics module, the Central Conveinence Module, the parking sensor module, the amplification station, the bluetooth module, and the climate module, although it worked ok with the old one. everything works ok, suspension, radio, climate, music, navigation, bluetooth.


Hello, I hava a phaeton with 2006, I want to upgrad rns810 , can you help me? thinks


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

The RNS-810 uses BAP protocol and the ZAB (and your 2006 Phaeton) uses DDP protocol.

See post # 65


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## jolySong (1 mo ago)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> RNS-810 使用 BAP 协议，ZAB（和您的 2006 Phaeton）使用 DDP 协议。
> 
> 见帖子 # 65
> [/引用] thanks


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## jolySong (1 mo ago)

JockMacMad said:


> 另一种方法是找到 CanBus 桥，请参阅 Canshack CanBus 1.6 到 2.0 网关适配器：-
> [/引用]





Bigpopa said:


> *现在终于知道答案了*
> 
> DSP vs BAP 协议是杀手锏。
> 
> ...


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## jolySong (1 mo ago)

I have successfully installed rns810 with 06 phaeton!


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