# 2.0 TSI Carbon Buildup Issues



## KirkK (Apr 3, 2018)

I'm considering a new 2018 Atlas 2.0t, and have been watching several Youtube videos concerning carbon buildup, and mechanical cleaning of the intake valves on these engines.

Has VW done anything on the newer engines to reduce or eliminate this problem? (I know this issue is not limited to VW, but is present in many DI engines; especially when turbocharged.)

Thanks for your insight and comments!


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

KirkK said:


> I'm considering a new 2018 Atlas 2.0t, and have been watching several Youtube videos concerning carbon buildup, and mechanical cleaning of the intake valves on these engines.
> 
> Has VW done anything on the newer engines to reduce or eliminate this problem? (I know this issue is not limited to VW, but is present in many DI engines; especially when turbocharged.)
> 
> Thanks for your insight and comments!



I won't claim to be on the cutting edge of what VW is doing with their newest models but to my knowledge, no they have not. Manufacturers in general, not just VW, have been playing with different ways to mitigate the problem of carbon buildup on DI motors but so far it's been mostly experimental to my knowledge. Not experimental in the sense that they don't know how to get it working, they most definitely do, it's experimental in the sense that they probably aren't sure it's worth taking to the market and mass producing on all models yet. 

That's to my knowledge anyway. Someone who's a little more on the bleeding edge may come along and have better news but, for my part, that's what I believe is up-to-date news on this.

You could always modify your car with some water-methanol injection


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## jakeyjohn1 (Dec 20, 2017)

KirkK said:


> Has VW done anything on the newer engines to reduce or eliminate this problem?


I'm under the impression a newer crankcase ventilation system is used in the Gen3 EA888 compared to older engines. 

I don't think there is a general consensus on whether the carbon build up issue has been fixed. I can't find any recent posts (2015+) with pictures or testimonials of gen3 EA888 carbon build up, links to that if it exists would be appreciated! 

It seems many people have accepted cleaning the intake valves as regular maintenance, so that may be why the issue isn't discussed as much recently.


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

And VW claimed that PCV system on the Gen-1 and Gen-2 EA888 TSI was vastly improved versus the prior gen EA113 FSI....and the TSI engine has carbon build-up issues......and now VW claims that the EA888 Gen-3 has an improved PCV system...my guess is that the Gen-3 will also have carbon issues too. The surest way to really fix the carbon issue is to have a dual injection system (direct and port), so that the backside of the intake valves get cleaned off once in a while.

Also, the carbon build-up issue is not solely due to oil mist that comes from the PCV system. The normal amount of oil that seeps down the valve guides is the other significant contributor to carbon build-up.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

CC'ed said:


> And VW claimed that PCV system on the Gen-1 and Gen-2 EA888 TSI was vastly improved versus the prior gen EA113 FSI....and the TSI engine has carbon build-up issues......and now VW claims that the EA888 Gen-3 has an improved PCV system...my guess is that the Gen-3 will also have carbon issues too. The surest way to really fix the carbon issue is to have a dual injection system (direct and port), so that the backside of the intake valves get cleaned off once in a while.
> 
> Also, the carbon build-up issue is not solely due to oil mist that comes from the PCV system. The normal amount of oil that seeps down the valve guides is the other significant contributor to carbon build-up.


This


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## bilagain (Sep 26, 2003)

CC'ed said:


> And VW claimed that PCV system on the Gen-1 and Gen-2 EA888 TSI was vastly improved versus the prior gen EA113 FSI....and the TSI engine has carbon build-up issues......and now VW claims that the EA888 Gen-3 has an improved PCV system...my guess is that the Gen-3 will also have carbon issues too. The surest way to really fix the carbon issue is to have a dual injection system (direct and port), so that the backside of the intake valves get cleaned off once in a while.
> 
> Also, the carbon build-up issue is not solely due to oil mist that comes from the PCV system. The normal amount of oil that seeps down the valve guides is the other significant contributor to carbon build-up.


The local dealership told me I had carbon buildup started on my 2016 GTI at either 10k or 15k and wanted to do their chemical treatment on it. I said yes knowing that its not that effective but hoping that being early enough or being proactive enough it would help. I'm now at 25k and while it's not awful I know that by next summer (say 35k?) I will be doing the walnut media blast on it and before that, adding a catch can. 

They (VW) have improved the system but it still lets too much through, IMO. I've seen both sides argue their cases here but when I put my turbo muffler delete in, it was wet with oil mist and by the time I had the new piece to install in hand, there were 3 drips formed. Won't speculate as to the whys but I don't like it and will address it. -And no, laughing at a few people out there, I don't think that getting on the car harder will get rid of this. Gut feeling is that will create more blow by and more of this.


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## dokhollidai (Jul 16, 2014)

KirkK said:


> I'm considering a new 2018 Atlas 2.0t


I don’t know if you’re still looking but if you’re going with the Atlas, you really ought to do yourself a favor and get the V6 anyway. The Atlas is a big bastard, can’t imagine running a 4 cyl in it. Just my opinion.


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

bilagain said:


> The local dealership told me I had carbon buildup started on my 2016 GTI at either 10k or 15k and wanted to do their chemical treatment on it. I said yes knowing that its not that effective but hoping that being early enough or being proactive enough it would help. I'm now at 25k and while it's not awful I know that by next summer (say 35k?) I will be doing the walnut media blast on it and before that, adding a catch can.
> 
> They (VW) have improved the system but it still lets too much through, IMO. I've seen both sides argue their cases here but when I put my turbo muffler delete in, it was wet with oil mist and by the time I had the new piece to install in hand, there were 3 drips formed. Won't speculate as to the whys but I don't like it and will address it. -And no, laughing at a few people out there, I don't think that getting on the car harder will get rid of this. Gut feeling is that will create more blow by and more of this.


The technical paper that VW published on the carbon issue states that extended periods of high RPM usage (like long highway trips) does reduce the carbon build-up. So, this does not mean "beating on the car , hard", but an hour of highway travel can reduce intake valve deposits.


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## bilagain (Sep 26, 2003)

CC'ed said:


> Also, the carbon build-up issue is not solely due to oil mist that comes from the PCV system. The normal amount of oil that seeps down the valve guides is the other significant contributor to carbon build-up.





CC'ed said:


> The technical paper that VW published on the carbon issue states that extended periods of high RPM usage (like long highway trips) does reduce the carbon build-up. So, this does not mean "beating on the car , hard", but an hour of highway travel can reduce intake valve deposits.


I agree that oil mist is not the sole source of the carbon build up. I do think that higher boost levels = more blow-by = harder working PCV system, clearly different than a highway trip. Taking your statement about the highway cruise, I wonder how much EGR plays a part in all this mess.


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## nkresho (Aug 8, 2010)

ROW got secondary injectors in the intake manifold, which mitigate the issue by spraying fuel on the tops of the valves. US didn't get that feature in the GTI or the golf R. 

It would be great if they offered it stateside.

Maybe we'll eventually get it, but i'm not holding my breath.


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## tmw2442 (Jan 21, 2007)

Realistically, how long are you planning on keeping the vehicle???? Worst case you pay someone to remove the manifold and do a manual cleaning once ($300-400) over the entire life of the car.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

tmw2442 said:


> Realistically, how long are you planning on keeping the vehicle???? Worst case you pay someone to remove the manifold and do a manual cleaning once ($300-400) over the entire life of the car.


That depends entirely in the owner’s use case. Lot’s of short trips and idling, e.g city driving, will see carbon buildup accelerate exponentially, whereas longer commutes/typical driving (at least 20 mins) and highway driviing will see the buildup more like how you have described, only need one or max two cleanings in the life of the vehicle depending on how long that is


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## milan187 (Mar 15, 2009)

There was so many issues with Gen1 and 2 TSI, I would read about it everyday.
The Gen3 has been around over 4 years now with my car at 80k and no issues.
My 2010 CC started having symptoms of carbon buildup at 50k, car would idle very rough and vibrate on a cold start.


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## CDNjetta (Jun 9, 2013)

My R has had carbon build up removed twice in the last half year (warranty/misfire issues), first at 15000kms on the odometer and again just over 30000kms. While the build up wasn't excessive, it was pretty noticeable. So, no, VW has done nothing about the carbon build up issues.


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## MarkTDI14 (Sep 22, 2014)

CDNjetta said:


> My R has had carbon build up removed twice in the last half year (warranty/misfire issues), first at 15000kms on the odometer and again just over 30000kms. While the build up wasn't excessive, it was pretty noticeable. So, no, VW has done nothing about the carbon build up issues.


Do you have mpi on the engine? We in the US do not have mpi...


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## Mark10h (Sep 23, 2016)

*Carbon build up valve cleaning*

Martin in Sykesville MD

Had my carbon build up clean done this weekend. My 2013 GTI has 69,000 and was driving like a pig. 
Car now runs like a dream.

Can not recommend his services and professionalism enough. 

I went to VW who told me they would replace the plastic manifold and use a screw driver to scrape off the carbon, eeeeks.

Sorry mods if I’m doing this but this really is an invaluable service to the vw community.

Martin 443 851 6690


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## xkeyscore (Jun 21, 2019)

At 29k miles the dealer noted slight carbon buildup on the valves. I asked about using CRC turbo valve cleaner (which I did any way) and the service advisor told me the manifold is plastic and considered part of the 5 year drive train warranty. This person told me that "since you are mechanically inclined and the manifold is plastic, simply introduce a manifold leak. We'll fix the manifold and a carbon clean is only $300 once we have the manifold off."

So...that is a no brainer. Loosen the bolts and hit it with a rubber mallet.


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