# A few questions about Girling calipers.



## A2Carat (Jan 13, 2003)

From my research and whatever this 'search' function does on this site, I've only got bits and pieces on information on these. I have a 98 Mk3 Jetta (2.0) and want more brake pedal feel with more bite. I run OE rotors and Hawk HP pads and new fluid. I have Mk4 aluminum calipers in the rear. So, 10.1" up front. If I go with the Corrado G60 11" rotors (they are 4 bolt right?) and the Girling 54 calipers/carriers with a good pad, will this help the pedal feel and offer a lot more bite? 

I find that when I brake REALLY hard, the pedal will go to the floor, but the car will stop very quickly... it's just not 'biting' hard enough though. 

There was some information that you'd have to run a 25.5mm MC to gain proper performance from these front brakes, and others say no, 60's are comparative to 54's and so on .. they'll fit under 15" wheels?

Your thoughts and experiences?


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

Changing calipers is not going to make the brake brake harder. A MKIII brake pedal (when the brakes are working correctly, and adjusted correctly) going to be rock hard after a pedal movement of less than 1.5".

If the pedal is sinking on occasion to the floor, then the possibilities are: air in the brake fluid, brake fluid is contamined with moisture, or a/some external fluid leak/s, or brake fluid is leaking pas the seals inside of the master cylinder (master cylinder failure).

Since you say there aren't any brake fluid leaks, then the problem has to be contamined brake fluid, or a leaking master cylinder.

So, I would recommend a complete brake fluid replacement and bleed using at least 1.5.20 quarts of a quality brake fluid. Follow by a brake function test.

If the brake pedal is still intermittently soft, then the master brake cylinder is most probably bad, and in need of replacement. I recommend the Meyle Master brake cylinder from either autohausaz.com or europartsdirect.com for about $45 (free shipping on orders over $50).

Going to larger diameter brake rotors will gets you more square inches of rotor and more mass, which will get you more heat reserve. Meaning the larger rotors can dissapate more heat, meaning your brakes will be able to convert more motion into heat, and get rid of the heat so the brake fluid and brake pads will not overheat as easy as they would with smaller/lighter brake rotors.

My choice for larger brake rotors at minimal additional cost is 11" 4-bolt rotors and calipers from a Corrado G60. A simple bolt on (as long as you can find a set of Corrado G60 calipers and carriers) you only need the calipers and rotors from a Corrado 60, with the matching brake pads (same as 95 and earlier VR6 Jetta and VR6 Golf), and 11" 4-bolt Corrado G60 rotors (I used Meyle brand rotors from europartsdirect.com, about $32.50 each). The calipers are actually the same as 95 and earlier VR6 Jettas and VR6 Golfs, the Corrado G60 caliper carriers are the hard to get parts that make this conversion work.

The Corrado G60 11" calipers and carriers are actually very close to the weight of the stock MKIII ABA 10.1" calipers and carriers (weight difference is less than 5lbs). But, the larger/thicker 11" rotors are considerably heavier than the 10.1" rotors.

The other easy brake upgrade choice is Audi 5000 turbo Girling 60 dual piston front calipers. I've been told by some people that the actually braking is better than the Corrado G60 Girling single piston calipers, BUT other people say the braking is the same. The Audi Girling 60 brake calipers and carriers are slightly easier to find than Corrado G60 calipers and carriers, but there are a couple of disadvantages. #1 is the weight penalty. The Audi Girling 60s with carriers (less brake pads) weigh in at 30lbs (a set of Girling 60 brake pads weighs 2lbs). The Corrado G60s weight 20lbs, including brake pads. #2 is the brake pad cost. Audi Girling 60 brake pads include wear sensors, so they cost considerably more than the Corrado G60 brake pads which are available with or without wear sensors at lower cost, and #3 the Audi Girling 60 brake pads are not a perfect fit to the Corrado 11" 4-bolt rotors they are used with. The Audi brake pads overhand the rotors at the inner edge, and something has to be done (like grind off the inner 1/4" of the brake pads).

As I wrote earlier, my choice after considering both the Corrado G60 calipers and carriers, and the Audi Girling 60 calipers and carriers was the Corrado G60s. I use my car as a daily driver, and I don't need the hassle of the brake pad overhang, the additional cost of the Audi brake pads, want the additional weight of the Audi Girling 60 brake calipers and carriers.


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## A2Carat (Jan 13, 2003)

Thank you for all the information. That was great. 

The calipers are new all around, and I flushed all the fluid when I did replace them before the winter (November-ish). After about a 1.5", the pedal does get firm, but when you hammer the brakes, as the car will stop rapidly, the pedal slowly goes to the floor and I cannot lock the wheels up (no abs). 

It seems kind of silly to want to mash the brakes, but to me, something is failing. Since there aren't any external leaks, I am tending to think you are right about the master cylinder. I work next to a VW dealership, so I'll see what I can get for it. 

So, it's the Corrado G60 front calipers and carriers with the 11" 4-bolt rotors that I am after? Do the brake lines match up ok? I am thinking of getting the ECS Tuning braided lines for the remainder of the OE hoses I have.

... now I have to see if I can find any calipers/carriers. I'll check the local yard, which I doubt they'll have any, but who knows. 

Thanks for the offer for the mis-matched set. I'm going to look locally for a set first.


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

Don't waste your time going to the VW Dealer for the brake master cylinder. Youre going to find that the retail price is close to $200.

I buy as few parts as possible from the VW Dealer. I've found that typically, the price for VW parts from the VW Dealer is 4X to 5X what I can get the same exact parts from Aftermarket Sellers for. And I don't mean junk generic parts either, I'm getting OEM parts for a fraction of what VW gets for them.

A good example of this is front door handles. $134.XX from the VW Dealer, and $25.XX from europartsdirect.com. Same doorhandle from the same manufacturer.

The Meyle brake master cylinder is actually a better part than the original VW part. Precision cast, and machined aluminum alloy instead of cast iron Girling part (that rusts like crazy from VW) at a fraction of the VW part. I don't know if it will last as long as the VW part, as only time will tell, but the pedal is higher and firmer than it ever was with the Firling OEM part installed.


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## A2Carat (Jan 13, 2003)

Fair enough. I'll take a look into getting it from that site you mentioned. 
I hope this will fix the problem with the pedal dropping with the extreme pressures. I SHOULD be able to lock up the tires under full braking ..

.. Since I can't, although the brakes function ok now, the problem will only get worse I'm sure.


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