# Spartiati's Frankenturbo F23 Build Thread



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I've had many posts on here in regards to dyno posts but never an official thread. I guess from now on I'll be posting everything in here .... 

2001 VW GTI 1.8t


*Engine:*
1.8t stock displacement with drop in rods
Gasket Matched AEB head with Ferrea Exhaust valves and IE Street intake Camshaft
Frankenturbo F23 Turbo Kit with JBS Exhaust Manifold (extensively ported)
BadgerBill's Velocity Stack inlet pipe modified with 6" Velocity stack filter
SEM Intake Manifold with 70MM Throttle Body
Custom 3" TurboBack built by my friend
AGN Valve Cover
D585 Ignition setup (hardwired and re-wrapped with OEM Harness tape)
Snow performance Stage 2 MAP controller with USRT direct port injection and 1 nozzle Post TB.
DLI teknik motor mounts
APTuning stage 2 dogbone with upgraded spherical bearing
Genesis2 630cc injectors @ 3 bar base. 
Autotech Fuel Rail
Dw65 Intank fuel pump
Eurodyne Maestro Tuned by Me
All plastic coolant pieces changed over to aluminum variants
S4 Oil Cooler Swap
Custom IC
Valeo 3 row radiator
82* Thermostat
Colder fan switch
BKR7E gapped to .028
BoostValve 2-Stage Boost Controller

*Suspension*
H2Sport Spindles 
Powerflex Black series Poly strut bushings 
Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers
R32 Control arm bushings
23MM Front Sway Bar
25MM Rear Sway Bar
Reinforced K-Frame to reduce flex
Tyrolsport Solid K-Frame Mounts
Solid Steering Rack Mount
TST Rear Brace


*Brakes*
996 Turbo Front calipers on R32 rotors
20th rear calipers on 310x22mm Phaeton rotors
EBC Redstuff pads for the street


*Wheels/ Tires*
Summer:
Sumitomo HTRZIII 245/40/17 
Kosei K1-TS 17x8
Winter:
Falken EuroSport 225/45/17
Audi TT Fat Fives


*Body*
Ebay Front Lower Lip (Yes I like it)
20th Sideskirts and Rear Lip
Caractere 3 piece Wing
Bixenon Headlights 


*Interior*
20AE Aluminum Trim and Black interior swap
Innovate LC-1 Wideband
NewSouth Boost Gauge
Auberins EGT, Water and Oil Temp and oil pressure gauges 
Volk-L OEM Radio
Reiger Illuminated shift knob
Custom Alcantara/Leather R32 Steering Wheel
Black Leather Square Bolster w/ Beetle headrests

Purpose: Reliable Daily, Weekend Auto-X + HPDE's

Stock ... LOL


Not Stock... 




First Dyno ever: Gpop modified K04-02x on stock everything essentially:


Cleaning up the harness






Stealthy Water meth injection. Can't see it unless you are looking for it on the car.



Custom Coil Mount I made 




Porting on the JBS







Porting on the turbo Hotside






Coolant pieces

Thanks [email protected]


IE Cam sitting next to Revised IE Cam ... According to IE the latest revision to their street intake cam is more suited towards my powerband. More on this later


Out with the old Cam and in with the new-er



Final Bay shot hooked up to the Dyno


Back on the rollers to see the difference between the cams. That is NYC Salt stealth mode the car is in....


First pull done at 16psi. Gotta say I love that linear powerband. 


Dyno results are in, between the revised IE cam and the original. Well it didn't hurt the top end at all and woke up the car in the midrange a decent amount. Thanks IE!!!!


Fueling Looks to be within spec. [email protected] claims these are good for up to 85-90% DC. 


My tuning Secret Weapon!!!


Well from where I was afew years ago to now I'd say I've made some strides


Some action shots:











For a car on 93 octane and water meth I could not have asked for more . Come Spring time I will hopefully have a downpipe with a 4" expansion chamber and revised IC before I call it a finished project (nothing ever is). On just pump I am able to run about 21-22 degrees with 4.5-6* of timing corrections. With water meth I am capable of running 24-25* with comparable corrections. No E85 local to me so that is not really an option. 

I compiled a bunch of pictures to have everything in one thread. I will update it accordingly when I have the time. Unfortunately Grad school takes up most of my free time.

Fastest run when the car was making 325whp and wheelspinning a 2.5" 60' on a 95* day!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=664817703094&l=8067218601134744612

These were some fun runs at an autocross event. I was purposely coming in fast and lifting to get some lift-off oversteer. 





BMW Day @ Monticello Raceway (Full course) 2010 15psi runs.











Here is a bit of a Dyno Timeline:
Gpop Stock exhaust manifold vs 034 High Flow Manifold


Had to go back to stock exhaust manifold sinc ethe 034 cracked on me. This was the 440 eurodyne file vs Maestro 630 tweaked file swapped to an F23


Custom intake manifold swap with 65mm VR6 TB


Did some porting on the stock exhaust manifold 


New 630 basefile with VVT file active and 70mm S4 TB JBS exhaust manifold


Testing IE intake cam and NA Cam


SEM Intake manifold and back to the OE Exhaust Cam


Revised IE intake cam and direct port 


Back to studying.

Latest pics as of 4/19/14 ... Took advantage of the beautiful day!!!















http://frankenturbo.com/
http://www.forcefedengineering.com/


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Awesome! I don't see a need for a BT setup with these #'s on a hybrid.

You mention 16psi on the first revised dyno. What was the boost on the 366whp dyno?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Looks good.

Can't see the pictures from my phone, but what did the gpop turbo do and what are you at now

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

These are not your typical results... You can't expect to bolt on a kit and see these numbers. There's a lot of things that have come together to complement one another to bring the car to where it is now.

366whp run was 25psi tapering to 21by 7500rpms... 

And for the record the wastegate is set to 12psi crack pressure with no signs of creeping or issues controlling boost...


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> Looks good.
> 
> Can't see the pictures from my phone, but what did the gpop turbo do and what are you at now
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Gpop with stock everything else was about 288whp. Latest was 366whp. 

I made the images click-able so that way people don't have to wait forever to load the page.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Looking good :thumbup:


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

Nice to see all your progress in one thread. As was said, it's crazy what you've accomplished with a hybrid turbo on pump gas :thumbup::beer:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

4ceFed4 said:


> Nice to see all your progress in one thread. As was said, it's crazy what you've accomplished with a hybrid turbo on pump gas :thumbup::beer:


Thanks Jeff. I'm hoping to squeeze a little more out of it. Got a few things I want to try when I have the time...


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## LEBGTIMK4 (Sep 13, 2010)

Good Build man!!! :thumbup:
Excellent #s!!!:beer:
Good Luck


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## CupraR Carl (Jul 28, 2013)

Great to see you've got a readers ride up, that means less searching for me in the future. Enjoyed reading of your cars journey over the years and looking forward to what the future brings. Good work.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Good stuff, subscribed! :thumbup::thumbup:


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## Dubstuning (Nov 1, 2007)

Glad to see it all in one place. Subscribed


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

Very nice! You got the bay looking real nice and well put together.:thumbup:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Thanks everyone! I'll try and load some more pics and videos later on today...


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Nice. :beer: Sub'd. Any details on the tuning you did? Did someone do a base map, or did you do the whole thing?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I did the whole tune. Obviously I used one of the basemaps and carried over the airflow tables for the 70mm throttle body. Then was fueling and finally power via timing and boost. That's an over generalized thought process as that took many hours of logging and revisions ... Great learning experience though...

Pm me if you have specific tuning questions. I'll try and help out as much as I can.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

I take it Eurodyne supplied the base map?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

npace said:


> I take it Eurodyne supplied the base map?


It's a basemap from the Eurodyne maestro menu.


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## KmosK04 (Dec 18, 2012)

Great work Spartiati! Why do you put this ignition setup??


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

KmosK04 said:


> Great work Spartiati! Why do you put this ignition setup??


I never really had a problem with the 1.8t coils besides gaping the plugs down to prevent spark blow-out. 

My main goal for this build was reliability. That's why I replaced all the plastic coolant pieces with metal variants and changed to the ls2 coil system. Thanks to maestro and the ability to tune my own dwell tables I am able to open up the spark gap to .030 and run 20-25psi without issues repeatedly and reliably (close to two years now no problem)....


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

good work :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

badger5 said:


> good work :thumbup:


I'll say. Spartiati really is a fine example of what can be done with our products and Eurodyne's Maestro software. Here is video edit of his car's dyno run while using 93oct fuel.







I think the reaction by FFE's Fabian Barcenas says it all.

I will assemble a cut of the testing/results while running the direct-port WMI system and post it up a bit later.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Thanks for posting the video Doug! 

Hopefully if I have time this weekend I will sit down and post a timeline of various dynos with the modifications. It will be a nice way to see what changes happened and their effects on power output.


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## suffocatemymind (Dec 10, 2007)

:thumbup:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

updated OP with some dyno's along the way and some videos


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## Nateness (Jun 25, 2010)

Thank you Spartiati for sharing the info. Really interesting comparison between the "old" and "new" IE CVA3 cams. I thought that something was different when I received my CVA3 last month and the duration was noticeably milder than the original.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Nateness said:


> Thank you Spartiati for sharing the info. Really interesting comparison between the "old" and "new" IE CVA3 cams. I thought that something was different when I received my CVA3 last month and the duration was noticeably milder than the original.


The lift hasn't changed. Duration I believe is the same. I believe all they did was tweak the timing of it...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I haven't yet had the chance to sift through the video footage of the dyno runs while the WMI was active. But in the meantime here is a look at your logs while running pump gas:


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Thats without WMI right?

That timing looks like it needs more WMI or E85


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

ejg3855 said:


> Thats without WMI right?
> 
> That timing looks like it needs more WMI or E85


Thanks for posting Doug!

No e85 anywhere near me unfortunately.

That was with no water meth. It was running around 24-25* with the meth... I'll let Doug post the graphs with the meth active ... My graphs never look as nice...


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

I found 24 to be my happy spot on e85

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## CupraR Carl (Jul 28, 2013)

Looking forward to seeing the direct port wmi logs. Can you include CF's too please. Your max egt's of 1372 oF are incredibly low as that's around 744 degrees. I manage around the same timing pulling cf's of 3's with a 2280 compressor wheel on a V2 manifold but measure egts of 860 degrees . China fold, direct port and E85 making all the difference then.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

CupraR Carl said:


> Looking forward to seeing the direct port wmi logs. Can you include CF's too please. Your max egt's of 1372 oF are incredibly low as that's around 744 degrees. I manage around the same timing pulling cf's of 3's with a 2280 compressor wheel on a V2 manifold but measure egts of 860 degrees . China fold, direct port and *E85* making all the difference then.


Even more impressive as Spartiati doesn't use E85. 93 Pump gas only. :thumbup:


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## CupraR Carl (Jul 28, 2013)

Chickenman35 said:


> Even more impressive as Spartiati doesn't use E85. 93 Pump gas only. :thumbup:


Very impressive in that case.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

I found a solid 200F drop in EGT's with E85. 

Timing also has a very large impact on EGT's


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

ejg3855 said:


> I found 24 to be my happy spot on e85
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Eric, you have a 180TT now with the higher compression ratio correct?


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Yes the bottom end is AWP on this car.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

ejg3855 said:


> Yes the bottom end is AWP on this car.


OK! I'm realizing a pattern, the slightly higher CR motors seems to tolerate a bit less timing overall than the lower 9:1 225TT ones.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

That seems to make sense to me. Never experienced any knock on E85, its wonderful stuff. 

I have logs of accel vs timing and found that to be the spot where acceleration stopped increasing. So we decided that at 24ish degrees or more was just to the point of increasing cylinder pressure and not gaining anything.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Max I think you may be right. The most timing I have ever seen is 26.25... That was with the 3 nozzle setup including pre-IC.... I may be able to get some more out of my setup by adding another nozzle into the system. 

Currently I have the 4 direct port nozzles and one 100cc post TB.... Another 100cc post IC may help get me another degree or two of timing....


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## CupraR Carl (Jul 28, 2013)

spartiati said:


> Max I think you may be right. The most timing I have ever seen is 26.25... That was with the 3 nozzle setup including pre-IC.... I may be able to get some more out of my setup by adding another nozzle into the system.
> 
> Currently I have the 4 direct port nozzles and one 100cc post TB.... Another 100cc post IC may help get me another degree or two of timing....


What do you think your total flow is at the moment. Your setup will handle 400 cc / min before passing the sweet point.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

what are you using to verify that you haven't passed MBT ?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Timing is an interesting thing. Geoffs car made its most power at like 16*.

Different setup obviously, but just something to think about.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


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## CupraR Carl (Jul 28, 2013)

Dave926 said:


> Timing is an interesting thing. Geoffs car made its most power at like 16*.
> 
> Different setup obviously, but just something to think about.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Is that because CF's would had been a problem past this point.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Wonder what the fuel was?


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> OK! I'm realizing a pattern, the slightly higher CR motors seems to tolerate a bit less timing overall than the lower 9:1 225TT ones.


Yeah lower CR = more timing.

Lowering CR is never a bad idea when you are pushing 2bars+ of boost on pump gas.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

CupraR Carl said:


> Is that because CF's would had been a problem past this point.





ejg3855 said:


> Wonder what the fuel was?


E85, 9.5:1 compression 

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

For me the tuning was done on the street and then full throttle was finalized (timing mainly) on the dyno. It kept making more and more power as timing climbed. I just started approaching 6-7* of correction @ 24-25* so stopped there...

My total flow is probably closer to 250-300cc for wmi....


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## CupraR Carl (Jul 28, 2013)

spartiati said:


> For me the tuning was done on the street and then full throttle was finalized (timing mainly) on the dyno. It kept making more and more power as timing climbed. I just started approaching 6-7* of correction @ 24-25* so stopped there...
> 
> My total floe is probably closer to 250-300cc for wmi....


The problem with wmi is what the nozzles are rated at is a very crude measurement of flow depending on too many variables. If ever you have to remove the manifold for maintenance etc measure the total flow over 1 minute into a bucket say and include the post intercooler nozzle too. When testing flow over 1 minute be sure to have the car running so that you get full alternator charging voltage (14.5v) and not battery only volts since this can make a fair difference to pump efficiency.
The butt dyno is a good way to measure over dosing. I don't see any benefit in timing improvement past 35% meth / water dilution and I feel the greater presence of water adds to the steam pressure effect.
My car is only around 325 bhp and sings happily with 360 cc/min so I would try upping the doseage a little as your car has more power than mine and will benefit from a little more I feel.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

spartiati said:


> Max I think you may be right. The most timing I have ever seen is 26.25... That was with the 3 nozzle setup including pre-IC.... I may be able to get some more out of my setup by adding another nozzle into the system.
> 
> Currently I have the 4 direct port nozzles and one 100cc post TB.... Another 100cc post IC may help get me another degree or two of timing....


Definitely Steve, the more advanced and efficient at in-cylinder cooling (as opposed to IAT-lowering) your system is, the more timing you'll be able to extract (obviously up to MBT). I know for a fact that a good direct port like you did will give you knock protection allowing you to reach MBT. 



ejg3855 said:


> what are you using to verify that you haven't passed MBT ?


In my case I dialed on the dyno by advancing it until no TQ increase was seen. What's interesting is that the limit is at peak pressure which was around 4200 rpm for me. I get a bit lost when people usually only reference the timing they have up top, when the bottom of the curve (peak TQ/pressure) is as relevant if not more when discussing timing limits and MBT. 



Dave926 said:


> Timing is an interesting thing. Geoffs car made its most power at like 16*.
> 
> Different setup obviously, but just something to think about.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


It's a very interesting topic indeed! I feel that not many has bothered with pushing and discussing their findings like it's done with other platforms. What strucked me the most dialing my timing from scratch was that TQ gradually increased to MBT as expected than dropped off, but EGT at some point started rising a bit prior to getting to the best TQ. 


This is what my curve looked like on E85 with the 9:1 CR


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

The flow ratings I've mentioned are taking into consideration the voltage and pressure rating difference... More is very likely necessary upstream...


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Max for sure timing is one of the most viable ways to increase a motors output... On pump with meth the best I can muster is around 21* at full boost onset and increase slightly towards redline...

I'll try and post some graphs later with the meth pumping...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I'll try and post some graphs later with the meth pumping...


Allow me.











And here are the dyno sheets comparing the newest Integrated Engineering "Street" intake with the original:


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## TTazRS (Feb 1, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> And here are the dyno sheets comparing the newest Integrated Engineering "Street" intake with the original:


Hey Doug by original do you me stock AMU cam? Or original IE cam? Thanks!


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

This is comparing the latest IE cam with the original IE intake cam...


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## TTazRS (Feb 1, 2012)

spartiati said:


> This is comparing the latest IE cam with the original IE intake cam...


Thanks for the clarification! If anyone is interested, the difference between IE's v1 cam and their latest v2 cam-
http://www.performancebyie.com/integrated-engineering-1-8t-20v-street-intake-camshaft


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Thank you for posting that!


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## [email protected] Motorsports (Sep 24, 2013)

That's a nice improvement :thumbup:


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

spartiati said:


> This is comparing the latest IE cam with the original IE intake cam...


just the intake cam yea?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Thanks Don!

Correct Bill. The exhaust cam is the OE AWW cam.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

[email protected] Motorsports said:


> That's a nice improvement :thumbup:


I'm sure you must have noticed your intake manifold in the car. It seems a terrific match for the direct-port WMI injection Spartiati is using. If you look in this video, you can see the manifold, sporting a handsome powder-coat of some kind.







At the video's end you can see the numbers score between the two intake camshafts. To be honest, before we installed it I was a little skeptical. I didn't like the looks of its new lobe angle, and feared it'd result in lossy top end and higher EGTs. Instead, it works exactly like a "new and improved" product should. All benefit. No sacrifice. Nice job, Integrated Engineering. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*final logs with direct port WMI and Integrated Engineering Street intake camshaft*

Looking through spartiati's logs I realized I'd not posted the data collected on your final 25psi run. Here they are.











The last graph really tells the story: 630s at 3bar being pushed by a strong Walboro in-line pump. But the turbo is still flowing enough to push them into the 90s on the duty cycle scale. And that's with water meth going into the cylinders as well.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I'm still amazed that I am utilizing 630's to their full potential @ 3bar. 

I'm thinking of getting an adjustable FPR to get me under the 85% IDC mark. I'm sure I wouldn't have to run it at 4 bar to get there


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

I am going to be working on a pre-turbo and direct port setup with scott from usrt on my car. It might be worth the wait and go pre-turbo instead of pre-ic. I am still debating on whether I want a third nozzle post tb. It all depends on what Scott recommends with my setup. Still looking good bro!! Keep up the good work.


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## [email protected] Motorsports (Sep 24, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> I'm sure you must have noticed your intake manifold in the car. It seems a terrific match for the direct-port WMI injection Spartiati is using. If you look in this video, you can see the manifold, sporting a handsome powder-coat of some kind.
> 
> At the video's end you can see the numbers score between the two intake camshafts. To be honest, before we installed it I was a little skeptical. I didn't like the looks of its new lobe angle, and feared it'd result in lossy top end and higher EGTs. Instead, it works exactly like a "new and improved" product should. All benefit. No sacrifice. Nice job, Integrated Engineering. :thumbup:


Thanks Doug. The WMI does indeed work well with the SEM because of the high velocity it produces, it's great for fogging and atomization.
Good job :thumbup:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Teamed up with Scott @ USRT to test his new fogger 630cc injectors... Reset the fueling tables and these things are running beatifully . Very fast response time and I haven't even tweaked the fuel tables yet...

http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10_44_287&products_id=1894

Just to throw it out there I reset all the fuel tables and adjusted the injector constant and these things feel much much smoother than ever... Feels very smooth without even being dialed in fully....


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

spartiati said:


> Teamed up with Scott @ USRT to test his new fogger 630cc injectors... Reset the fueling tables and these things are running beautifully . Very fast response time and I haven't even tweaked the fuel tables yet...


Thanks, Steve. Please let us know how things work out after you do the full tune. As for why the performance is improved, it's all about the *atomization*, *spray pattern*, and uncommonly *fast response time*. You can actually see the difference here:

The "regular" Genesis II 630cc blow mediocre Siemens 630cc out of the water: 






*But*, then there's new *Genesis II 630cc "Double Fogger"* version:
[video=vimeo;87228038]http://<wbr>vimeo.com/87228038[/video]

The fuel mist goes where it's supposed to go on time and in the correct amount. This shouldn't be a huge distinction from so much else on the market, but it is.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Thanks, Steve. Please let us know how things work out after you do the full tune. As for why the performance is improved, it's all about the *atomization*, *spray pattern*, and uncommonly *fast response time*. You can actually see the difference here:
> 
> The "regular" Genesis II 630cc blow mediocre Siemens 630cc out of the water:
> 
> ...




do you have a comparison video of a normal bosch 550cc type injector in comparison to the genesis?
thats a better comparison for me... and the bosch 550's are the more popular here and price point are hard to ignore. I am curious what yours behave like in comparison

:thumbup:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Thanks for posting the videos Scott. Yes these things are so easy to tune with there fast response rate. I am 90% of the way there with only 1 revision from my basefile. The spray pattern really tells the whole story. 

Bill I grabbed this video from USRT's website (hope you don't mind Scott) of the popular 550's.
<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/51402964" width="500" height="367" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

So I've been testing Scott's 630cc fogger injectors for about a week now and so far things are looking great. I started from scratch in regards to the fueling tables. Many revisions later I have a pretty solid tune. 

Things left to finalize:
1) A little rich at cold startup
2) A small rich spot at high loads and low rpms.

All in all I have to say that the these fogger injectors make for a nice difference in spoolup and timing advance.
After finally getting some warm weather yesterday I was able to compare some spool times with the old injectors. Using 20psi as a marker for "full boost" and 1500rpms as the start point in 4th gear, I am seeing roughly a 150-175rpm decrease in spool time. 3275-3300rpms before vs 3125rpms now. 

Another nice bonus is the amount of timing advance I am able to run without water meth. I am seeing 22.5* of overall advance from 4000- redline with 6* of corrections thought. After I finalize the fuel tables I'll add the meth back in and see what it does from there...


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Excellent feedback on the new 630's - thanks for sharing :beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

spartiati said:


> So I've been testing Scott's 630cc fogger injectors for about a week now and so far things are looking great. I started from scratch in regards to the fueling tables. Many revisions later I have a pretty solid tune.
> 
> Things left to finalize:
> 1) A little rich at cold startup
> ...


Get me those data logs, please. I'll format some comparative graphs.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Not a before/after comparison here, but this is a look at boost onset while on the "Foggers" from a couple different start points.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I'll try and get a better log for comparison.


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

That is nice!!!


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

So many revisions later these injectors are pretty much dialed in. I received an adjustable FPR, complements of Doug over @ Frankenturbo headquarters (thanks buddy!) and increased the base fuel pressure to 51psi (roughly 3.5bar). 

I've done some logging and using 20psi as the benchmark, I am consistently seeing that by 2800rpms (give or take). On the older injectors this would come by roughly 3250...

Overall very pleased with these units: http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1894
For anyone looking for 630cc injectors then these should be at the top of your list.


Things on my to do list now:
1) Turn the water meth back on and do some logs to see how things are looking.
2) Spoke to Max and looks like his expansion chamber fits with the JBS manifold. This might happen during the springtime.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

spartiati said:


> Things on my to do list now:
> 
> 2) Spoke to Max and looks like his expansion chamber fits with the JBS manifold. This might happen during the springtime.


Your car will definitely benefit from it and an improvement in backpressure ratio. 

Fitment is tight with the V-band but it clears, should be a killer complimentary combo for a hybrid.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Did you have to switch to bolts or can you still use the studs for the turbo outlet?


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

The downpipe can be fitted with the turbine studs. The dry-fitment in the pics were done with my old factory turbine housing that had broken studs that were replaced with nuts and bolts.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Thanks Max. Lmk when you find out...


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Finally received my DW pump and decided to install it today. Straight forward swap with the intank pump. It was great to rip out the inline walbro and the wiring associated with it. Cleaned up the plumbing in the engine bay a bit. Filled up on gas and so far so good. Weather is rainy so no pulls just yet... 

I would like to change the fuel lines in the engine bay. I have the IE -6 adaptor but I'm not sure what kind of lines to go with. PTFE stuff looks great but is super expensive. Anyone have any recommendations?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

This isn't our pump -- and we don't even sell it, actually -- but here's a picture:










It's available through 034Motorsport.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Thanks for the pump Doug!!!! Its a great addition for anyone who is exceeding the needs of a stock fuel pump...


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

spartiati said:


> Finally received my DW pump and decided to install it today. Straight forward swap with the intank pump. It was great to rip out the inline walbro and the wiring associated with it. Cleaned up the plumbing in the engine bay a bit. Filled up on gas and so far so good. Weather is rainy so no pulls just yet...
> 
> I would like to change the fuel lines in the engine bay. I have the IE -6 adaptor but I'm not sure what kind of lines to go with. PTFE stuff looks great but is super expensive. Anyone have any recommendations?


Are you using E85 still? PTFE if you are. Genuine Aeroquip, Earl's, XRP and Goodridge are pretty good fuel lines and they have new hose formulations out that are better able to withstand modern fuels such as E10, E15 and E85 and Diesel. 

I normally won't recommend Hot Rod Magazine for any tech articles...but this one on new hose formulations is pretty good:

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1101_performance_fuel_hoses/viewall.html


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

^^^ Richard, Steve isn't using E85 because his area doesn't have stations selling it like we do further east.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Thanks Richard!!! I'll look that over in the morning with a fresh mind. 

Unfortunately Max is right though. E-85 isn't readily available to me to commit to switching over ...


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> ^^^ Richard, Steve isn't using E85 because his area doesn't have stations selling it like we do further east.


I couldn't remember who was using E85 and who wasn't :laugh:


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

spartiati said:


> Finally received my DW pump and decided to install it today. Straight forward swap with the intank pump. It was great to rip out the inline walbro and the wiring associated with it. Cleaned up the plumbing in the engine bay a bit. Filled up on gas and so far so good. Weather is rainy so no pulls just yet...
> 
> I would like to change the fuel lines in the engine bay. I have the IE -6 adaptor but I'm not sure what kind of lines to go with. PTFE stuff looks great but is super expensive. Anyone have any recommendations?


whats the spec of this pump? flow rates vs pressures etc?

why are you changing?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

http://www.deatschwerks.com/products/fuel-pumps/dw65v-detail-detail

That's a link to the pump. I like the drop in feature without needing to have extra things plumbed into the engine bay. Essentially cleaning up the engine bay. With that said I had no issues with the walbro and genesis 1 intank pump at all...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

With the G2 630cc injectors fed by 3.5bar at the fuel rail, your injector duty is too high. At least while running only petrol as you are now.










Granted, your fuel correction values are excellent. So the ECU is able to get the fuel it wants set up this way. But the Lambdas are a little shaky, which makes me think the injectors are struggling to meter accurately. I'd recommend raising the fuel rail pressure to 4bar and re-testing. That'd be an excellent challenge for that newfangled in-tank pump.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

spartiati said:


> http://www.deatschwerks.com/products/fuel-pumps/dw65v-detail-detail
> 
> That's a link to the pump. I like the drop in feature without needing to have extra things plumbed into the engine bay. Essentially cleaning up the engine bay. With that said I had no issues with the walbro and genesis 1 intank pump at all...


thanks for that

looks like 210l/h - 225l/h at 3bar fpr if running between 1.5 - 2bar boost level


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Bumped up the fuel pressure yesterday. Going to try and do some logs today...


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Took advantage of the day to do lots of logging and snap some nice pictures. I uploaded the shots to the bottom of the first post. 

In regards to the DW pump it is proving to be a worthwhile upgrade. I bumped up the fuel pressure to 58psi (4bar) to lower the IDC in the higher rpms. I am now seeing 85% IDC towards redline. This of course is with the water meth turned OFF for the time being. I will add that back into the equation this coming week.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A few days ago spartiati invited me to ride shotgun for some *pre-turbine* EGT testing on the car. The video below shows performance while on 93oct fuel. The water methanol system was NOT operational. Boost was capped to 22psi using the MBC. With a moderate preload on the turbo actuator, boost tapers down to 20psi by 7000rpms. Here are the resulting EGT findings:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

That thing is cooking!


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Thanks for posting Doug.

This was doing multiple 3rd-4th gear pulls back to back. I was finalizing the full load fueling before adding in the water meth again.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

What are the other gauges for?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> What are the other gauges for?


Water temp
Oil pressure 
Oil temp
Egt


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

opcorn:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Haven't had much of an update in a while. 

So as of late I had a slight mysterious coolant/oil leak with an occasional puff of smoke during first startup in the morning. Leak down test confirmed headgasket between cyl 3 and 4 were leaking. Pressure test showed normal 180+ across all 4 cylinders which I found interesting. 

Anywho, long story short I replaced my headgasket and timing belt essentials with the help of my buddy Tom over at SLK Auto. If anyone needs a VW mechanic in Brooklyn, N.Y., I highly recommend him. I would have done the work entirely myself but my back hasn't fully recovered for full heavy lifting just yet. 

While I was in there I contacted Doug and he sent me a new mixed flow design F23. I'll give that it's own thread when I do some logging. I want to get some miles and another oil flush before beating on it. 



What is the general consensus for flushing out that milky gunk after a headgasket? I flushed the oil twice so far and most of it is gone. I figured I do some light driving for the week and then do another oil change.

I'll upload some pictures tomorrow


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## suffocatemymind (Dec 10, 2007)

:thumbup: how'd the original F23 look when you took it out?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

suffocatemymind said:


> :thumbup: how'd the original F23 look when you took it out?


Turbo was in excellent shape. The head gasket was a whole other story. Something to put up on the wall.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)




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## Miguel_s# (Mar 28, 2014)

congratulation
nice topic


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

I've had to top off my coolant a few times the last few months and haven't found any signs of leaks. There's no contaminated oil, though. Looks like I may be pulling the head soon to try and get to the bottom of it. 

Do you have any picks of the HG? I went with OEM because it held up the first 100k miles before strapping my f23 on.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Sorry for not keeping this thread up to date. I'm in my last year of my Doctoral Program and spare time is next to nill. 

So I ended up pulling the head again. I rushed to swap the headgasket and quickly looked over the head. Checked the deck and it was true but never pressure tested it. 
What was the original issue was a tiny crack between the intake and exhaust valve on cylinder 2. It wiped the cylinder wall cross hatch out which made me have to rehone and rering that cylinder. 

What's the point of doing just one cylinder when everything is apart?
Good question. I just redid all 4 cylinders, through in a new set of bearings and did another break-in.

So far the car has been solid motor wise. The slave cylinder on the 02M then decided it had enough and failed on me. Let's just say it's been an expensive year. I just yesterday got the car back from FFE racing. New clutch, new longer final drives, steel shift fork upgrades. Drove it home and haven't had time to mess around with it. I'll try and get around to posting some pictures of the crack on the head. 


Hopefully it is not your case but do a leak down test and look over all the coolant junctions. If you are using the OEM coolant you'll get a milky white dry spot if there is a leak. Look into your coolant pressure cap as well. If it's old and over pressurizing or not pressurizing enough you can be pushing coolant past the clamps or boiling the coolant over. It's gotta be going somewhere....


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

I put an EGT gauge in the hot side of the turbo. If I don't let it cool to around 800* then I can here it boiling back into the reservoir. I assUmed this was the issue. Because I live so far south I run light of the OEM coolant and more water. Now that winter is near, I'll do a good flush and mix it proper. Then watch it until the New Year. I'll call around the local garages and see if any have a leak down set or maybe get a cheap one from Jegs.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

If it is boiling then something is a miss. Try swapping your coolant cap with a buddy to see if that is the culprit.


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

No one else else has a VW I know locally. I'll pick one up at the bone yard.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Brake Weight said:


> No one else else has a VW I know locally. I'll pick one up at the bone yard.


I'd just give you one if you were closer.


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

I'm all alone. I'm the only modded VW in the area. One of maybe 3 that even have different wheels.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

spartiati said:


> If it is boiling then something is a miss. Try swapping your coolant cap with a buddy to see if that is the culprit.


I think he means he can hear the coolant bubbling after engine shut off. That's pretty normal for me at least


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

It's NOT running out of the coolant ball. It's just bubbling up from the return line off the turbo when the car is shut down and the turbo is over 800*.

Edit: fooking iPhone likes to take away words sometimes.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Honestly I can't say I've seen or heard this. Maybe I just never paid attention to it.

On my friends car that was losing coolant and intermittently running too hot, a new cap solved his issue. 

The way I am thinking about it, the coolant system is a closed loop system. Boiling temp of water being the obvious 212* FF add coolant and about 10-15 psi and you raise the boiling point to well above 230*. This is my thinking off the top of my head. So I wouldn't expect it to boil off. 

I'll see what my car does next time I take it out.


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

I'll agree to that. 

I had a bottle of Water Wetter in there, too. Whatever that does. About half the required OEM coolant and the rest distilled water. I would top it off with more distilled water and end up cutting what coolant was there. 

I'll do a flush this weekend or the next and watch it to see how it does without letting the turbo cool down.


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

Now she's drinking like a 40yo hooker. I've literally had to fill the entire expansion ball three times in a week. It's just about pure water now I can't find a leak. I'll park in on some cardboard when these Amazon Christmas presents start rolling in.

Oil is good. So I've got a leak on my hands. Makes me feel better now.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Brake Weight said:


> Now she's drinking like a 40yo hooker. I've literally had to fill the entire expansion ball three times in a week. It's just about pure water now I can't find a leak. I'll park in on some cardboard when these Amazon Christmas presents start rolling in.
> 
> Oil is good. So I've got a leak on my hands. Makes me feel better now.


Reservoir cap not holding pressure?


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

Maybe too much if anything. It's not boiling out at the ball. It'll bubble up the turbo's return line some and that's it. Now it's just vanishing.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

If you have no sign of a leak under the car then you may be burning it off. If the oil is still good then I'm less inclined to think head gasket or a cracked head. 

I have seen a turbo CHRA crack causing it to burn coolant slowly. 

Are you getting a coolant smell inside the car? Heater core leaking inside the car? 

Just trying to think of scenarios where you'd lose coolant and not see it.


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

The heat does smell funny lately and I've ran the heat more now that we've had a cold snap.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

It may be a leaking heater core. 

They sell a dye you can put in the coolant and check with a UV light.


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

I'm halfway to Disney World right now and will return home on Thanksgiving. I stacked some boards up so I could garage it since there's supposed to be a southern freeze while we're gone. Last year it froze and blew two freeze plugs out of my tractor. That was another ordeal, but it was fine else wise. If it's a leak there should be a puddle after a week of sitting. If not then it's burning off somewhere or it needs to be under pressure to leak.


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## PoorMansDub (Nov 28, 2010)

I like those kosei rims OP! :thumbup:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Thank you sir. I love the Kosei's. 17x8 and light as hell. Pain in the ass to clean though. Lol.

I'll update the thread when this insane semester is over. I've done some drivetrain mods that are worthwhile mentioning.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

So overall it's been a bad year for me and the car. I dealt with the cracked head earlier in the year. 

Their was a crack between the intake and exhaust port on cylinder number 2. It didn't smoke while driving or anything like that, however it would hydrolock the motor and give me a hard time starting the car. This washed out cylinder #2 and all the crosshatching on the cylinder wall was gone.

So I called up Ed from FFE and he told me to head on over to take everything apart. I wanted no surprises popping up so I addressed anything and everything that would need to get done (motor wise). Since I was going to rehone and rering cyl 2, I wanted to do the same to cyl 1,3 and 4. So new rings, new rod bearings, new oil pump and freshly built head. Head received new guides, inconel exhaust valves, new lifters, Cat HD springs and the IE intake cam from the old head. This whole process happened back in August.

Well, come September everything was great. Taking it relatively easy breaking in the new rings, oil change and all that jazz. After a weekend trip upstate with the girlfriend I was pulling up to the house and reversing into the driveway when I almost hit the garage door. I pushed the clutch down and the car kept going. Well the slave cylinder finally decided to quit after 6 years of abuse. Can't really say anything bad about the clutch/slave, because in the past 6 years I've gone through 70+ dyno sessions, 50+ drag races, 100+ autocross runs, 7 track days and about a total of 40k worth of driving. Even after all of that the clutch still looked good for what it had gone through. 

First order of business was ordering a clutch. I called up 4 seasons and ordered myself a 16lb steel flywheel and clutchnet stage 2+ setup. It's a full face organic disc which is rated for 375hp. While I was going in there to do the clutch I figured I address anything else that may need fixin in the future. I called Ed @FFE once again and he gave me some ideas. He is very patient with me and took the time to address any concerns I may have had. We decided while going into the trans to upgrade to the steel shift forks as well as play around with the final drive ratios. My 02M came with 3.9/3.1 final drive originally. We changed it to a nice 3.6/2.9. Where these came from I don't know, but the difference is pretty amazing. 

So long story short I dropped the car off at FFE and picked it up all finished. I just don't have time to breath this semester let alone work on my own car. I was concerned that the gearing would make the car feel lazy. It is actually pretty awesome.. The car has a nice linear feel and spends more time in the meaty powerband. It accelerates smoothly with no real loss in performance. Clutch feels light and stock-ish. Rpms cruising on the highway in 6th are:
50mph @2000 rpms, 65ish @ 2500 rpms, and almost 80 @ 3000 rpms. Excellent cruising gearing. 

I'm still not beating on the setup nor am I hitting high boost until I break everything in. Once I do I'll take some logs with high boost and see how it feels at that point. 

I will try and update with pictures, but that is my ramble of what has been done to the car as of late.


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

Nice. Glad to see things looking good buddy.


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

I'm back home. A small 2" puddle was present and when I removed the top from the ball it was able to breathe. Then a steady drip(1 drop every few seconds) appeared from the t stat housing.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I would just get the upgraded metal version. I believe there are a few companies making them. 034 for sure has one. ECS might have one... 

I've replaced every plastic conduit on the car to avoid coolant issues.


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

I may start replacing with metal later on. I was able to finally get a chance to dig deeper and found the lower bolt was loose. I put this thing on when the engine was on an engine stand and torqued everything to Bentley spec. Oh, well. Topped it back off with a half gallon of fluid and the rest distilled water. I'll watch it a week or so more and then flush it.


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## ticketed2much (Feb 18, 2012)

So have you had time to do any tuning with the new F23 mixed flow, is it noticeably different that the OG F23?


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I'm a stickler for tuning the car. I always check logs whenever weather changes and see how the tune responds.

With that said the mixed flow, spools just as quick as the original with a bit more of a kick when boost comes in. Overall, it is a solid kit that delivers.


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## joshp912 (Dec 17, 2005)

BUMP Anybody making more power than Spartiati these days? 366 whp the best to date?

Anybody running e85 AND methanol??


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

On E85, with say, ignitron running a fkex setup. The right injectors, intake manifold, fmic, 4bar MAP, 4"DP, WG upgrade, etc. I think yes, it could be done. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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