# Sticky  Detailing Forum "How-To"



## adg44 (Aug 2, 2000)

Since there are a lot of repeat threads in here about "What is the best wax", "How should I wax my car", "Swirl Removal?", "How to properly wash a car", etc etc. This can be a first stop for getting information you may need. 
Here is how this works. Everyone choose a subject they wish to explain (that they know very well) and post it. Since there are so many different techniques for detailing a car, repeat posts are fine. 
I will do some write-ups later when I have some more time. 
But for now, go at it. Happy Detailing!








- Anthony


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## GeneH (Mar 18, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (adg44)*

a pretty good Auto detailing Forum

http://www.autopia.org/forums/index.php?s= 


within that forum are these good threads
The Definitive Porter Cable Accessorizing Thread 
POST BY 4DSC

_Quote »_
GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS 
Porter Cable dual action random orbital buffer / polisher / sander 
2500-6000 opm (orbits per minute) 
3.7 amps, AC motor 
5/16", 24 thread shaft / spindle diameter (aka "5/16-24") 
5/32" eccentric offset (orbit radius) 
5.75 lbs weight 
10" length (body) 
<14" size of box needed incl. cord sheath 
4" width 
4.5" height 
+5.5" with side handle 
Model 7424 polisher includes 5 inch counterweight, 6 inch polishing pad 54745 * 
Model 7424SP sander/polisher includes 5 inch counterweight, 6 inch polishing pad 54745, 5 inch sanding pad 13700, Meguiar's cleaner wax 
Model 7335 sander includes 5 inch counterweight, 5 inch sanding pad 13700 
Model 7336 sander includes 6 inch counterweight, 6 inch sanding pad 16000 
Model 7336SP sander/polisher includes 6 inch counterweight, 6 inch sanding pad 16000, 6 inch polishing pad 54745, possibly wax also 
Models 97355 and 97366 are just the 7335 and 7336 with dust collection parts 
BACKING PADS & COUNTERWEIGHTS 
Meguiar's W-64DA backing pad is 5" diameter 
Classic Motoring Accessories (CMA) VBP-6 backing pad is 6" diameter 
Griot's Garage backing pad for their 7336 is actually Porter Cable 18001 6" sanding pad (Thanks to Len_A for this info) 
3m Hookit pads - all these pads are yellow and NOT to be confused with Hookit II: 
Hookit Disc Pad 05775 is 5" (tapered edge) 
Hookit Disc Pad 05776 is 6" (tapered edge) 
Hookit Low Profile Disc Pad 05755 is 5" (almost flat edge) 
Hookit Low Profile Disc Pad 05756 is 6" (almost flat edge) 
All the above pads are velcro backed. 
Porter Cable sanding pads: 
5" standard (solid) adhesive-backed (non-velcro) pad 13700 (comes with 7424sp, 7335) 
6" standard (solid) adhesive-backed (non-velcro) pad 16000 (comes with 7336, 7336sp) 
5" 5-hole Hook & Loop (velcro) pad 15000 (standard), and pad 15001 ("contour" type - softer, thicker for PC's really thin polishing pads) 
6" 6-hole Hook & Loop (velcro) pad 18001 (standard) (comes with Griot's 7336 PC), and pad 18002 ("contour") (comes with Coastal Tool's 7424 bonus kit) 
Porter Cable counterweights (see above for equipped models): 
5" Counterweight 874011 
6" Counterweight 699933 
Counterweights are attached with 2 Torx screws, size 15 ( T15 ). * 


Two of the most popular PC kits and backing pads (or backup plates ) are the ones from Meguiar's and CMA. While it has been recommended in the past to match the counterweight to the diameter of the backing pad, recent posts (deleted by the server outage) have shown users to be happier with using the heavier 6" counterweight with the 5" Meguiar's backing pad. They report less vibration and smoother running at higher speed settings with this combination than when they were using the 5" counterweight. This seems to be the smoothest running combination (5" pad with 6" weight) especially at higher speed settings. A combination of a 6" pad (such as the CMA pad) with 6" weight also performs very well and is preferable to using the 5" weight. I spent some time testing some various combinations of weights and backing pads in this thread: PC Vibration Test which reinforces what a small number of users have told me about the 6" weight/pad combo. The current recommendation for buying a PC is to simply buy a 7336 series model or buy the PC 7424 Bonus Kit from Coastal Tool. This kit includes an extra 6" counterweight and the 18002 sanding pad. Alternatively you can try buying a 6" counterweight separately if you own a machine equipped with the 5" weight. People always had trouble in the past where they had to buy a separate counterweight once they bought a 7424 and the 6" CMA kit. Buy a 7336 or Coastal Tool kit and save yourself the trouble. 
Failure to get a well balanced combination of counterweight and pads MAY result in increased wear and shorter life for your PC (not to mention sore hands), especially if you run it at high speeds a lot. That is not to say you absolutely cannot use a 5" weight and your PC will self-destruct instantly, but it may not be best in the long run and it just doesn't seem to be the best handling setup. The owner's manual also recommends that you have your PC inspected and serviced (if needed) after about 100 hours of usage by an authorized service center. 
Both 5" and 6" backing pads will work with commonly used 6.5"(or even 8") polishing pads. They do not have to match their diameter or anything, just stay firmly attached. 
* Occasionally some people get an oddball PC with a mismatching counterweight (ie, 6" on the 7424) or different sized Torx screws (try T20 if T15 doesn't fit). 
SIDEBAR: What's that funny black washer for? Some people who have already purchased their PC's have been bewildered by this odd plastic or fiberboard washer that comes with their machine. According to Porter Cable, it is intended to fit between the backing pad and the spindle. The PC I bought came with this washer pre-installed on the backing pad, but often it's loose in a bag. My personal theory for why it goes here is so that it gives additional clearance between the pad and unit so getting the wrench in between them is easier. 

FOAM PADS AND KITS 
I'm going to try to keep this short since others will know more, and the hardest part about PC ownership seems to be just trying to get the pads on! I've only included the smaller 6" (really 6.5") pads because they are the most handy and popular, although some prefer the larger 8" size for some jobs. This listing is NOT exhaustive, as there are lots of other makes and types of pads available out there (CMA alone has many other types). 
CMA 6.5" Durofoam Variable Contact (VC) foam pads: 
These pads have a dish or depression on the middle face of the pad so that they are not flat, but slightly concave - hence the "variable contact" name. 
- Lambswool Leveling Pad 77-216 
- Yellow Cutting Pad 46-570VC 
- White Polishing Pad 46-670VC 
- Grey / Gray Finishing Pad 46-770VC 
- Porter Cable Accessory Kit DM-KIT (includes 6" backing pad, 1 cutting pad, 2 polishing pads, 1 finishing pad, 1 lambswool compounding pad, 2 terry bonnets) 
- Detailing Accessory Package DAP-KIT (identical to above but no 6" backing pad) 
- It's worth noting that Lake Country manufactures CMA pads. If you'd like to know the exact specific type of pad that any of the above are, note the CMA part number matches the part number you can find on the Lake Country website. 
CMA 4 Inch Spot Repair Pads: 
CMA sells these neat little pads with their own 3.5" diameter backing plate. The pads are only 4 inches big, so they're designed for repairing scratches and handy for polishing in tight areas. Not a lot of mention on the forum about this yet, but it sounds like a good idea. http://www.properautocare.com/4inspotreppa.html 
Meguiar's 6.5" Softbuff foam pads: 
These pads are flat faced pads, unlike the CMA ones. 8 inch pads are specified by replacing the "6" with a "0" in the item number. 
- Lambswool Cut 'n Shine Wool Pad W-4006 (yes, they DO make this!) 
- Maroon / Red / Purple Cutting Pad W-7006 
- Yellow Polishing Pad W-8006 
- Tan / Beige Finishing Pad W-9006 
- Set of 3 Pads WDAV99-B (includes 2 polishing pads, 1 finishing pad) 
- WDAV99 (identical to above kit but includes 5" backing pad and reportedly costs $8 more) 
Porter Cable 6" OEM foam polishing pad: 
White polishing pad with integral (permanent, possibly 5") backing plate, part number 54745 Even though Coastal Tool claims that this pad may be used with either the 5" or 6" counterweight, I have determined that (based on 2 members' experiences) that this pad works smoothly only with the 5" weight and vibrates excessively at high speeds with the 6" weight. 
Porter Cable also makes a 6" lambs wool velcro backed polishing pad part number 18007 
3M makes good pads, but only their 6.75" Perfect-it DA Glazing Pad 05729 is smaller than 8 inches. It appears that this pad is intended for use only with glazes and wax application, not polishing, so it may not be best suited for that use. Several members here like these type of pads with their convoluted foam face design that looks like fingers or a waffle type. These other pads are meant for rotary buffers and are 8" or larger, but might work with the PC. 
Link to all of 3M's polishing stuff (except backing pads) 
http://products3.3m.com/catalo..._html 
LINKS 
http://www.properautocare.com (aka CMA) 
http://www.meguiars.com (also have a tutorial about PC usage) 
http://www.griotsgarage.com (be sure to download his useful guide to PC usage in PDF format) 
http://www.portercable.com 
http://www.coastaltool.com 



Relative abrasiveness of 3M products 
POST BY 4DSC

_Quote »_
hanks for the question about 3M Car Care Products. It's difficult to give a perfect answer to your question because of the variety of tools and pads used to perform this function. They too can have an effect on the aggressiveness of the different products. But here is our best advice on the subject. I've identified both cut (how quickly it removes material - the higher the number the faster it cuts) and finish (how smooth the surface is after application - 0 being very high gloss). The perfect product would have a very high cut number and a very low finish number. 
Swirl Mark Remover: 25 cut, 2 finish (this product contains no waxes or silicones - wax should be applied as a second step) 
Medium Oxidation Remover: 45 cut, 2 finish (this product also has a wax in it which makes the finish look better) ...therefore Med. Ox. Remover should get rid of the scratches/oxidation/watermarks quicker and leave a very similar finish. 
The next most aggressive product would be Perfect-it II Rubbing Compound, 39002: Cut=65, Finish=12. Typically a professional would use Perfect-it II to get rid of all imperfections, then Swirl mark remover to remove the minor scratches or swirlmarks left from the compounding stage and then a wax. When working by hand you can often go straight from 39002 to a wax/polish. 
Hope this helps. 
Bill Wheeler 
3M Automotive Aftermarket Division


_Modified by GeneH at 9:57 AM 6-17-2003_


_Modified by GeneH at 10:01 AM 6-17-2003_


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## Triumph (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (GeneH)*

*Popular drying methods*
Since I don't feel like going through the entire process of washing your car, I'll focus on one aspect of it: the drying. But I'll make a few notes on washing, because they relate to drying.
*Washing:* Wash your car when it is cool and in the shade. Air drying is the main cause of water spots, and the heat from the sun and the paint surface only amplifies the effect.
*Rinsing:* For rinsing, remove whatever nozzle you usually use from your hose, and rinse the car with the open end of the hose, with a low water pressure. You don't need a jet of water pummeling your car now that it's clean. Just let the water "fall" onto the surface, and you'll see the difference! Definitely helps with the drying process.
*Drying:* Popular products
_100% Cotton Towels_ - True 100% cotton towels will not scratch your paint, and are fairly cheap, but they don't absorb water very well. There's also a chance of "100%" towels not really being 100% cotton. The stitching may be another fabric that can scratch your paint. 
_The Absorber(tm)_ - A popular product available at many different stores, The Absorber soaks up a claimed 50% more water than a cotton towel
_Chamois_ -
_California Water Blade_ - The Blade is a ~1 foot long piece of "medical" grade soft, bendable silicone that will conform to the changing surfaces of your car as you wipe the CWB over it. It looks almost like a windshield wiper. It will scratch your paint if it catches any dirt or grit, so be sure to clean the blade after each pass, and *never* use it to wash rain water off of your car. The CWB has mixed opinions on it, some can't seem to use it without it chattering over the surface, others love it. Myself, I think it is great for removing water from the large surfaces (trunk/hood/roof), then I follow up with a towel to finish drying.
_Microfiber Towels_ - 

I'm going to write more later, but I'm at work now. Enough goofing off.











_Modified by Triumph at 8:29 AM 6-20-2003_


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## basshead22 (Dec 17, 2002)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (adg44)*

Lets now add some good Glass Cleaners


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## basshead22 (Dec 17, 2002)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (B95P)*

I really meant hard water spots, i can't get them out even with 20/20 and Stoner glass cleaner.


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## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (basshead22)*

For cleaning glass, I use Plain blue Windex and newspaper (no lint)
After I'm satisfied that the glass is "clean" I grab my tub of polishing compound and do 1 window at a time. After the polishing compound, its onto a good paste wax applied by hand and removed with a buffer. For tight corners, I use my Dremel.








Anyone who has seen my car knows I am fanatical about perfect glass. I would have Oakley make my windows if it wouldn't put me in the poor house. 


_Modified by Clean97GTi at 5:14 PM 7-4-2003_


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## Lima (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (adg44)*

Here's a link to my debadging/rebadging thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=933352 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Cheers Liam


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## ketch (Jun 23, 2001)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (adg44)*

adg44, please allow me to restate what you have already done.
While I and my company would love to provide all of you the set of charts, please, understand, as I am sure you have, they are not all that helpful unless one has a certain amount of professional detailing knowledge, the correct tools, etc.
Plus, as I am sure you can share, after receiving them, they are rather expensive.
To all, I do appreciate the emails, and I have attempted to respond to all, but it is just not possible to provide them to other than professional detailers who are committed to our program which is directed at attempting to improve the image, the dedication, the "do it right" pro detailers.
Thanks again to all, sorry for not being able to fulfill your requests, just too darn expensive and as stated, would not really be of aid to most.
Ron Ketcham
(ketch)


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## Triumph (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (ketch)*

*Tips for cleaning and conditioning leather*
A few tips for cleaning and conditioning your leather:
- The hotter the better! Hot leather will soak up conditioner much better than cool leather, leaving you with less greasy residue and more assurance that the conditioner is getting down into the material and really doing its job. If the temp is in the 60's or 70's, let it sit in direct sunlight to warm up the interior nicely.
- Leave the conditioner to soak in for a few hours in a warm car, before wiping off any residue. Your seats will tell you if you've used too much or too little. 
- Use your hands to apply the conditioner. This works it into the material and gives you soft smooth skin, if you're into that.
- Cleaning/conditioning twice a year is probably good enough. Once when the weather starts getting warm and once before it starts getting too cold. For reasons mentioned above, I wouldn't expect to see great results at temperatures below say, 65F.
- Prevention is key. Repairing cracked leather is harder than preventing it. Tinted windows and windshield sunshades will also have positive benefits for the longevity of your leather, blocking harmful UV rays. Besides, tint looks cool.


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## gotta_jet (Feb 11, 2002)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (Triumph)*

*less painful way to apply tire dressing:*
make a circular cardboard cut-out the same diameter as your wheel, hold it in place, and spray your tire dressing like a madman. this way you won't have to worry about dressing over-spray on your nice wheels.
*cleaning mesh-style wheel "spokes"* 








gross! look at that brake dust!
what i have done, is bought a little brush that kinda loops..you know what i'm talking about. well, i bent the looped wire in there down to make a flat brush with bristles on all sides. take some water and your wheel cleaner of choice spray it, and perform the old 'in-out, in-out' on each of the spokes. it takes some time of course, but the results are great.
it's still tough to clean between each and every bolt, and the smaller 'mesh' thingies that don't go all the way through.


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (gotta_jet)*

Leather care info thread, incl. info on VW, Lexol and Leatherique:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=515653


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## Jesstzn (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (adg44)*

Couple of tips you might find handy
1) I use the kitchen sponges that are yellow with the green scouring pad back to apply tire dressing. Spray the dressing on the foam side and apply to the tire .. no more overspray on your clean wheels or up on your paint. These are like $2 for 12 at your local dollar discount and at this price disposable when they get dirty.
2) Use Westleys Bleech Wite to clean your tires before applying your favorite dressing. Once you spray this on your tire you will crap when you see the brown crud run down. As with car waxing a well prepared black tire will look better when dressed up. If you have non-cleared alloy wheels protect them from the spray. 
3) To apply your black trim dressing like Back To Black etc try using a foam paint applicator ( Foam wedge shaped brush on a plastic or woden handle) to put the dressing on. This allows you to get in those hard to reach places and also great for doing straight edges on the rubber around the windows. Just make sure you wipe off the excess so the coat is uniform.



_Modified by Jesstzn at 9:51 PM 8-1-2003_


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## pocket (Jun 11, 2001)

Car Washing Tips:
- First RINSE REALLY WELL. Take your time and do it right to ensure you remove as much of the loose dirt as possible. If not, expect scratches. Rinse each and every crevice really well; dirt gets trapped there too and will find its way to the wash thingy. I don't recommend a power washer as it can overcome certain pressure seals, but the highest water pressure your house provides should be fine. I think a really thorough rinse should take about 15 minutes.
- Wash. I'm not going to recommend a particular car wash, but here's my method and rationale. Wash from the top down. Not front to back or sectionally. Start with the roof. Then the windows, then the hood and trunk, upper side panels, inside door wells, lower side panels, then the wheel wells, underbody, tires, and finally rims. The rationale is that most of the dirt that sticks and doesn't come off during even a good rinse is at the lower body. If you start there, expect the dirt to get trapped in your wash thingy and scratch the rest of your paint. Also, never ever ever use your wash thingy for your paint for your wheels; use a different one.
- Wash the wash thingy. Clean it many many times during washing the car. I recommend a separate 20 gallon bucket of only water for this; return it there for a rinse before you resoap it in your suds bucket to prevent dragging dirt into yoru soap and onto your paint. Remember to throw the wash thingy in with your laundry for a thorough cleaning.
-Rinse. This time low pressure water fall flow is perfect. It will allow all the water to sheet off the car leaving less for drying. Someone's already talked about drying, so I only have one thing to add, make sure you shake all the lint from that towel or chamois or you will drive yourself nuts!
If I'm washing my car for a detailing, it takes me about an hour. For any in-between wash, like 30 minutes. Sometimes a rinse and dry is plenty.
Do it with friends, and you won't know it's work










_Modified by pocket at 7:15 PM 8-2-2003_


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## EuroDubbin (Oct 19, 2002)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (adg44)*

Heres a excellent site to check out as well
http://www.properautocare.com/index.html 


_Modified by EuroDubbin at 1:56 PM 8-9-2003_


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## Ted K (Jul 11, 2003)

*I'm a regular on the AW detailing forum*

Most folks there know me. Here's a link to my entire detailing routine, with list of products. Works very well.
http://forums.audiworld.com/detail/msgs/8901.phtml


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## Ted K (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (basshead22)*


_Quote, originally posted by *basshead22* »_Lets now add some good Glass Cleaners









Eimann Fabrik Clear Vision. Best stuff on the market for cleaning glass.


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## Ted K (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (gotta_jet)*

Even simpler. Use Eagle One tire swipes. Spray the swipes with the dressing (I prefer One Grand ERV) and then wipe on.


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## Jesstzn (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (Ted K)*

Even less money .. same results 
12/$1 at your local discount store


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## Ted K (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (Jesstzn)*

Personnally, these are not as nice as tire swipes. They are not only curved perfectly to cover the tire and not touch the wheels, but they have a hard little handle that's great at preventing the wet dirty tire dressing from getting on your hands. Last about a month also.


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## Jesstzn (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (Ted K)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ted K* »_Personnally, these are not as nice as tire swipes. They are not only curved perfectly to cover the tire and not touch the wheels, but they have a hard little handle that's great at preventing the wet dirty tire dressing from getting on your hands. Last about a month also.

Personnaly Ted .. they are so .. I have used both. The swipes got just as dirty as the foam and when you try to clean them they fall apart. Some here are on a budget and can't afford all the luxuries like Swipes and the high end detailing products. I wouldn't recommend them if it didn't work .. the green side gives a place for a firm grip and if the dressing is applied to one end of the pad only you get none on your hands .


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## Tornado Red Russ (Aug 4, 2002)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (basshead22)*

Plain water and some #0000 steel wool.


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## unixb0y (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (adg44)*

Carpet Cleaning tip http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=999804


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## Jesstzn (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (adg44)*

* Gum on the carpet/upholstery * 
Got discarded gum on my sandal yesterday, hot day .. 80f+ got in the car and promptly smeared it on the carpet but the tranny hump.. and rubbed it in with driving. I tried the freezing method to remove it but instead of ice I took a can of "Canned Air" used for cleaning computers. I turned it upside down and sprayed the gum. It froze instantly then a little rubbing with the finger nails lifted it right out and I had the shop vac there and sucked it up. Biege carpet ... purple gum.. 100% gone. Only thing I would do different is use a spoon to rub it off with ... nearly froze my finger tip. 


_Modified by Jesstzn at 7:52 AM 9-1-2003_


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## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (gotta_jet)*

I have found that a baby bottle brush works great to clean mesh/hard-to-clean wheels. They come in several different levels of brisel stiffness, find one that is not to stiff but will still clean without scratching.


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## Golf GTi 8v (Mar 4, 2003)

What happens if you wax your car without removing old wax or using dawn dish soap first?


_Modified by Golf GTi 8v at 1:31 PM 9-2-2003_


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## audiphile (Aug 18, 2001)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (Golf GTi 8v)*

hmm... tricks.... 
the chamois (a.k.a. "shammy") is your friend. Headliner stains can even be removed by a bit of all-purpose automotive cleaner on a chamois.
if you have access to compressed air, that, along with a detailing brush (tooth brush) will make quick work of dash/doors... great for vents and speaker grilles. Just spray the dash/door liberally with cleaner, go into any cracks with the brush, blow out the liquid with the gun, wipe clean with a cloth.
I am a detailer if you haven't guessed... I'll peak my head in again to see if there's any questions I can help with.


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## Jesstzn (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (audiphile)*


_Quote, originally posted by *audiphile* »_hmm... tricks.... 

if you have access to compressed air, that, along with a detailing brush (tooth brush) will make quick work of dash/doors... great for vents and speaker grilles. Just spray the dash/door liberally with cleaner, go into any cracks with the brush, blow out the liquid with the gun, wipe clean with a cloth.


How does it sit with someones expensive speakers after you squirted cleaner in them then blew all the crud into them.. Sure glad your not detailing my car


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## audiphile (Aug 18, 2001)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (Jesstzn)*

I dunno, ask the auction house





























_Obviously_ doing what I said is a good idea with stock speakers in a well protected grille. I don't do it in my car, because I have infinity components.
I'm glad I'm not detailing your car too.
EDIT: this is supposed to be a how-to thread anyways, obviously take anything posted on the internet using your own discretion. If it makes you feel better I will add a disclaimer to the end of each post I make in this thread, that way you won't pollute this supposed to be helpful thread with useless comments.



_Modified by audiphile at 8:01 PM 9-18-2003_


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## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (audiphile)*

Have any of you tried a product called "Dry Wash?" It's a light green liquid in a spray bottle. You never have to use water on your car, and you can clean the whole car with this stuff, even the tires and rims. It's a cleaner/protectant. Spray it onto a section of the car, use one rag to wipe it in, making a cloudy area on your car, then take a second rag and wipe it off, leaving one shiny and smooth surface. If you want, take a third rag and go over the car again to get any left over film off. Now most of you may be thinking, "this stuff must scratch the car if you don't rinse it first." Well...no. It doesn't, and if any of you can find this stuff, I'd recommend buying it.


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## Jesstzn (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (truckn13)*


_Quote, originally posted by *truckn13* »_Have any of you tried a product called "Dry Wash?" It's a light green liquid in a spray bottle. Now most of you may be thinking, "this stuff must scratch the car if you don't rinse it first." Well...no. It doesn't, and if any of you can find this stuff, I'd recommend buying it.

I will leave that for you to use. The idea of properly washing is to lift the particles away from and off the paint. We have a Dry Wash dealer here .. His car always looks nice with a great shine. Untill you look in the light... it is so badly swirled the paint nearly looks flat. Even the use of Quick Detailer on an overly dusty car will produce swirling.


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## Dr. Wagner (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (Jesstzn)*

It is okay to put the dressing on the black plastic parts before washing the car???


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (mk4driver22)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk4driver22* »_I have found that a baby bottle brush works great to clean mesh/hard-to-clean wheels. They come in several different levels of brisel stiffness, find one that is not to stiff but will still clean without scratching. 


That's exactly what I was going to say, except you want to stay away from the 'bristle' style brushes as they are intended to very thoroughly SCRUB milk and junk out of bottles, and may scratch painted wheels (of which 100% of newer VW's come with). I use the sponge style bottle cleaner, and it's basically a sponge wrapped up aroung a coat-hanger like wire that is set into a plastic handle.. a little torqueing back and forth and the wire breaks and you've got a sponge on a wire. What I do next is, I take that wire and actually stick it into the end of my drill. Lock it down, spray some SimpleGreen (vary concentration based on how much crap is on your rims - you never want to use harsh 'wheel cleaner' chemicals) and then you can just stick your spinning sponge cleaner in all the little places I used to get hand cramps trying to get my fingers in. Spray it off with some nice cold water and you're good. 
As far as Glass cleaner, I think I found "The One" with this. It's called SpryWay. I got mine at Costco (it might be at Sam's club too), and it came in a six bottle pack for about eight bucks I think. It totally rocks for three reasons:
1 It's a foam, so you can see where it's at, it doesn't run (at all unless you put too much) and a little goes a long way
2 It is ALWAYS streak free. You could wipe it across your window and when it dried you'd have no streaks (I've tested this!); 
and 3 It's safe for all surfaces so if you accidentally get some on your leather door inserts or on your seats you don't have to worry about dis-coloration or the leather drying out. Plus, it just smells really good and leaves a fresh clean scent in the car that is not overpowering. I learned about this stuff from a guy who replaced my windshield once, and he gave me the rest of his bottle and told me where to get it. A couple years later I had a different windshield replaced, and this other guy was also using it, so I think a lot professionals know about it.
One thing that a friend-of-the-family told me (who has owned a family run Auto shop for the last 32yrs - he's done it for 18 of them) is that most of the major products out there are comprised of almost all the same ingredients... i.e. you are not going to get much of a better product going from 3M to Meguires to Mothers to any 'professional' grade stuff. I use Meguires because they have a very large line of different products that meet specific needs, and from many of the car shows that have winning cars a good portion of them use Meguires too. A really cool thing to do is check out this website:
http://www.meguiars.com/carrx.cfm 
It's a tool that recommends what products to use, because they recognize that someone who lives with sea-salt blow up in SanFrancisco is going to have different needs than someone who endures 112 degree heat in Phoenix, ya know? It takes into account almost everything about how your car is damaged and suggests the right product. 

Oh, and lastly (sorry for the long post) I would highly recommend spending the $30-40 on a Random Orbit buffer. They make polishing, waxing (applying AND removing) and other things just that muck easier, and since it's Random Orbit you don't have to worry about swirl marks as much.


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (truckn13)*


_Quote, originally posted by *truckn13* »_Have any of you tried a product called "Dry Wash?" It's a light green liquid in a spray bottle. You never have to use water on your car, and you can clean the whole car with this stuff, even the tires and rims. It's a cleaner/protectant. Spray it onto a section of the car, use one rag to wipe it in, making a cloudy area on your car, then take a second rag and wipe it off, leaving one shiny and smooth surface. If you want, take a third rag and go over the car again to get any left over film off. Now most of you may be thinking, "this stuff must scratch the car if you don't rinse it first." Well...no. It doesn't, and if any of you can find this stuff, I'd recommend buying it.

As I said in my previous post, I have a good friend that owns a body shop. I asked him if there was any way to clean your car in between washings if you have a good wax on there.. he was shaking his head no even before I finished the sentence! You should always use a good quality "car shampoo" to wash your car before you try to remove dirt for several reasons.. you need to LIFT the dirt away from your car, and the foam in the wash doesn that. You also need to remove the grease, pollutants, oxidants, and minute particles that get physcially embedded in the paint (before you use a clay bar for them), and you can't do that if you don't have any water or soap to carry away the top layers of dirt. Simple answer, there are NO shortcuts for proper vehicle maintenance, inside or outside of your car.


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (Golf GTi 8v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Golf GTi 8v* »_What happens if you wax your car without removing old wax or using dawn dish soap first?

_Modified by Golf GTi 8v at 1:31 PM 9-2-2003_

Please don't EVER USE ANY TYPE OF DISH SOAP ON YOUR CAR!!! Besides the wax, which is a protective layer over the paint, paint in itself actually does have it's own nutrients and minerals that give it it's elasticity and deep gloss... if you use dish soap or any type of soap that breaks down those nutrients, your paint will start cracking earlier, it'll look dry all the time, you won't be able to make it look good no matter what you do. If you have done this, then you need to go buy some type of glaze for your car, I recommend Meguires no 7 Show Car Glaze. You apply it to the car like wax, then you let it SIT, for at least 30mins but I recommend an hour. Basically doing that will allow your paint to soak up all of the nutrients it needs to look deep and glossy again and then you just wipe or buff off the excess..
As far as removing the wax, you don't need to. Wax will come off with washings over time, and if you have properly prepped the paint surface before applying wax, there is nothing underneath the wax that needs to be removed. Basically you just wash like normal, attend to any surface defects you might have, and then wax. Here's my whole routine, since I've basically said it all anyways: 
1 Wash/Dry (Once a week or as needed for conditions) Wash car IN SHADE, or wait for dusk if you can do a lot of detail work inside your garage (note: regarding drive through car washes...I personally wouldn't take my car through anything that I wouldn't WALK through. I have in the past gone through a 'touchless' wash when it has rained for a solid week or more and it wasn't feasable for me to do it by hand, and while I don't recommend it because those water jets are really high preasure, if you have to it should be okay, just make sure you are ALWAYS keeping a good protective layer of wax on your car). Use a good Car Shampoo and never ever ever any household cleaners, like dish soap. If you have bird droppings or tar, get a non-chemical cleaner designed for bug and tar and just let it sit for 5 or 10 mins (mine favorite is Turtle Wax Bug and Tar and Sap because it's a conditioning oil-based solution that breaks down the contaminents and actually separates it from the car so you damage to the paint) , it should come right off. Dry your car. A word on Micro Fiber Towels: be very cautious of which ones you buy before using on paint. Look for MF towels that are DESIGNED to be used on cars. There are many many different types of MF towels that range from 20,000 TC to 100,000+ TC, and some are made with more polymers that are better for cleaning and don't work as well on cars. The polymers in some MF towels are not specifically abrasive, but, contrary to popular belief, the hooking action of some polymers can damage clear coat, creating a 'glaze' effect on your paint. If you could imagine taking a plastic bag and balling it up and rubbing on your car, it's like that. 







. That's why they are able to clean so effectively is because of the hooking/scraping action. I have found a few companies and local shops that sell 100% Pure Terry Cloth MF towels, and I use those with a leather chamoise. The chamoise removes a majority of the water and then detail with the 100% Terry cloth MF towels. Also, open all of your doors, trunk, and hood and close a couple of times to get water beads out of the cracks so you can dry em up, and roll your windows down and up a couple of times. If you just bought regular terry cloth towels, wash and dry them a couple times to break off loose threads and fibers so they don't get left on your car. Never use fabric softener when drying any towels or pads you are going to use on your car.
2 Clay Bar (about twice a year). If you are washing your car, and you take your bare hand and go over it and you can feel grit or little sand particles that don't wash off, or basically your car just does NOT feel like glass, you need to do this. It is AMAZING to see the difference if you've never done it. My car was brand new, and after a year I could feel a lot of that becuase of freeway miles. The paint felt like GLASS after I was finished, I was exstatic! It also removes oxidation that the shampoo can't get off (you'll see it because the clay is usually yellow and it'll start turning reddish-brown even though you just finished washing your car). 
3 Remove Paint Flaws (as necessary). The Clay Bar will help some, but for more use a swirl remover and a RA buffer if you can, or when you haven't clay-barred. If the scratch or imperfection doesn't come out, got to a Fine Cut cleaner, and then if not that a Medium Cut cleaner. If it stil doesn't come out, you may want to consult a body shop, because repairs that go beyond that are very sensitive and very circumstantial on how they are treated. Always use a foam pad with the RA buffer, as wool pads can be much too abrasive, and terry cloth pads are not as smooth as foam and won't come out as smooth. You might want to use wool if you are already up to the Medium Cut cleaner. Remember, don't overdue it - when youf fix these imperfections you are removing clear coat or paint to do it, so don't go crazy be conservative, and don't press to hard on the buffer, let the movement do the work (can you move your arms around 3 THOUSAND times a minute? I sure can't!







).
4 Surface Prep (every three months or about as often as oil change). Use a swirl remover or a fine cut cleaner and just go over the car to remove any very minor paint imperfections. If an area of the car really doesn't have any, just go over lightly. This does not have to be very rough, becuase a lot of the imperfections are hidden with wax if they are minor enough. 
5 Polish (at least six times a year, but you can every month if you feel like it!) Use a Glaze or Polisher that is not as abrasive as Swirl remover to give your car that last mirror polish. I recommend the glaze, especially on dark cars, because it gives the paint nutrients that will help with scratch repair in the future, and really give it a nice deep deep gloss (almost looks like you have a layer of glass over your paint http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ). This is the step that will take your car from "nice" to "Daayyuuuummmmm!". Just apply it like you would swirl remover, let it sit for a few, and then buff it off. 
6 Protect/Wax (once a month). Get a really high quality CARNUBA based wax and apply it in non-repetitive patterns on your ride. let it dry until it will almost just brush off (it will if it is a good quality wax) and then buff it off. Never use circulare motions if doing by hand. These can actually be mistaken for swirl marks. Use big oval motions going first up and down for a couple strokes then left to right for a fews. This should keep things random enough to look really nice! Or just use a RA buffer







. I can't stress enough how easy a RA buffer makes things for you! I recommend a liquid wax most of the time - they are just easier to work with and faster to apply, plus they tend to go on more even and you don't accidentally put on too much. You CAN put on too much wax... only the part that touches the car bonds to the paint, anything else comes off anyways and just makes your job a big pain in the arse. I use Meguires High Tech Yellow 26 (because it works BOMB with clear coat..) or there are many good ones out there. After you finish buffing it off, if there is any residue just follow up with Detailers Mist, or I use Meguires Final Inspection no 34. Don't go for Gimic waxes - i.e. "You never have to wax your car again! You can take a flame thrower to it and it'll never damage!!" No, they don't 'wax' airplanes and no wax or anything else you could put on by hand out of a little bottle could withstand flamethrowers







. Come on, people! Didn't your Mommy and Daddy ever tell you if it's too good to be true, it probably is??!!








6 Up-keep/Touch-up (daily, bi-daily, whenever needed). I have a California duster. I have heard mixed things about it, but I use it and it works well, as long as the car is DUSTY. Not DIRTY, just DUSTY. I think that's were people go wrong. If you push dirt around on your car, it scratches. Dust will come off and as long as it's not too thick, it won't scratch anything. You can also take the brush part off and throw it in the washer (liquid soap, no fabric softener same as your terry cloth towels). I use Mequires no 34 Final Inspection to polish it back up after dusting. Remember, if you have to do more than dusting, you're BACK AT STEP 1! I wash my car sometimes three times a week because I live in a state where it is impossible for the weather guy/gal to be correct. 
So here is the schedule: 
Daily (just like anything else, you gotta clean your toys before you put them away!







: Dust and detail.
Weekly: Wash/Dry. 
Monthy: Polish and Wax.
Three-months (oil change schedule): Suface prep, AND removing more than minor paint flaws. 
Six-Months (March after Winter, September after summer): Clay Bar for deeper settled contaminents.
You think, "Why wouldn't I take out scratches and more-than-minor defects when they come up, and not wait three months?". Well, simply put, because it's easier that way. It takes a good three to four hours to finish everything (that's WITH a RA Buffer and after some experience!), and you don't want to put yourself through all of that when you are going to do it in one or two months anyways. If the defect is major enough that it bugs you that much, you should probably take it to a shop and have them check it out anyways. Rule of thumb, if it catches your fingernail when you lightly drag over it, or if it is wider than a dime, you probably need some professional help, up to and including re-painting. 
Good luck y'all! Hope this helps! This is all my experience, and I don't work for a body-shop, but I have put a lot of personal time into my ride and have done a lot of homework a long the way, so IMO are defenitely appreciated! Also I don't work for Meguires, I just have had good experience with them, and in my opinion you should keep one line of products because they're usually designed to work with each other. 
EDIT: I changed my mind about MicroFiber Towels.. see above in Wash/Dry! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
EDIT: I corrected my view on MF towels to be less biased. 
EDIT: Removed the word 'oil' and replaced with 'nutrients' - some people were getting anal about my terminology







If you know what I'm talking about, then just leave it alone!!!











_Modified by SN2BDNGRZB55 at 7:18 PM 11-9-2003_


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## Jesstzn (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (SN2BDNGRZB55)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SN2BDNGRZB55* »_
1 Wash/Dry A word on Micro Fiber Towels: be very cautious of which ones you buy before using on paint. Look for MF towels that are DESIGNED to be used on cars. and that say they are 100% Cotton Terry cloth. Contrary to popular believe, some MF towels are actually made up partially of polyesther/polymers (plastics basically) that are not abrasive, but are not soft either. I use a leather chamoise and MF TERRY-CLOTH towels- remove a majority of the water with chamoise and then detail with the 100% Terry cloth MF towels. 

Can you tell me where to buy 100% Terry Cloth MF towels? 
Every MF towel I have seen/bought is no terry cloth.
The secret of the Microfiber towel is a state-of-the-art matrix of polyester and polyamide weave. Usually 75/80% polyester and 20/25% polyamide. 
Microfiber cloths are made from a new blend of 70% Polyester and 30% Polyamide. A single strand of microfiber is approximately 1/20th the diameter of a strand of silk. There are over 90,000 micro fibers per square inch of cloth. And each average microfiber terry cloth measures 15" x 15". That's over 20 million fibers in 1 cloth. These tiny micro fibers disperse dirt, grime, film, dust, and collect it deep in the cloth to be rinsed away when washed. Re-use over and over, microfiber cloths usually last for years of use.


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (Jesstzn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jesstzn* »_
Can you tell me where to buy 100% Terry Cloth MF towels? 
Every MF towel I have seen/bought is no terry cloth.
The secret of the Microfiber towel is a state-of-the-art matrix of polyester and polyamide weave. Usually 75/80% polyester and 20/25% polyamide. 
Microfiber cloths are made from a new blend of 70% Polyester and 30% Polyamide. A single strand of microfiber is approximately 1/20th the diameter of a strand of silk. There are over 90,000 micro fibers per square inch of cloth. And each average microfiber terry cloth measures 15" x 15". That's over 20 million fibers in 1 cloth. These tiny micro fibers disperse dirt, grime, film, dust, and collect it deep in the cloth to be rinsed away when washed. Re-use over and over, microfiber cloths usually last for years of use.



This is what I thought too, and that's why I avoided MF towels before. Being a MicroFiber towel just means that it was manufactured in such a way that there are 10's of thousands of strands per inch. There is no set number, and I have seen towels anywhere from 40,000 TC to over 100,000 TC (although over 100,000 is usally a polly/blend and not Terry Cloth). I purchased mine at Costco, and it was $9 for 12 16" x 16" towels! They are 100% Terry, and here is a link of another company that does the same thing! http://www.microfiberplus.com/ 
I think the 100% Terry MF towels are relatively new, and they were probably brought about by the demand by the automotive detailing industry. The main difference between the polymide towels and the pure Terry towels is that the polymide towels have those polymers, which do make better 'grabbing' action on hard surfaces and thus better for cleaning, but to BE better at cleaning hard surfaces it is actually 'scraping' the surface in a sense and that is the kind of thing you don't want to use on a nice painted surface, especially clear coat on dark paint! Look around and you can find one in the area usually. Hope this helps!


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## ChrisG (Jun 4, 2000)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (basshead22)*

one to one vinegar to water, or bar keepers friend for water spotted glass.
Best glass cleaner for unspotted glass is Stoner brand invisible glass cleaner








or... http://www.invisibleglass.com/


_Modified by ChrisG at 8:20 PM 10-9-2003_


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## JerrySpaeder (Oct 21, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (Jesstzn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jesstzn* »_ * Gum on the carpet/upholstery * 
I tried the freezing method to remove it but instead of ice I took a can of "Canned Air" used for cleaning computers. I turned it upside down and sprayed the gum. It froze instantly then a little rubbing with the finger nails lifted it right out and I had the shop vac there and sucked it up.
_Modified by Jesstzn at 7:52 AM 9-1-2003_

Great suggestion! Thanks for the tip.


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## Triumph (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (SN2BDNGRZB55)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SN2BDNGRZB55* »_
A word on Micro Fiber Towels: be very cautious of which ones you buy before using on paint. Look for MF towels that are DESIGNED to be used on cars. and that say they are 100% Cotton Terry cloth. Contrary to popular believe, some MF towels are actually made up partially of polyesther/polymers (plastics basically) that are not abrasive, but are not soft either. If you could imagine taking a plastic bag and balling it up and rubbing on your car, it's like that. You can glaze the paint and also scratch it, especially clear coat on a black car







. I use a leather chamoise and MF TERRY-CLOTH towels- remove a majority of the water with chamoise and then detail with the 100% Terry cloth MF towels.

I completely disagree with *SN2BDNGRZB55's* assessment of a MF towel. MF towels are generally accepted to be made of 70% polyester, 30% polyamide (or maybe 80/20), NOT cotton, and they include a very high strand count. They will *NOT* scratch your paint. They will absorb 7 times more water than any cotton towel, thin weave or not.
There may be some confusion because some resellers are calling their MF towels "Terry Towels," but they then go on to explain that they are composed of 70/30 polyester/polyamide. Pakshak is one such reseller. You can learn more about MF towels at the following links:
http://www.microfibertech.com/
http://www.properautocare.com/micwhatbigde.html
http://www.pakshak.com
I've never read here, or on Autopia, anything about MF towels being made out of cotton. If you have any doubt about the quality of a towel, do the CD test. Take a blank CD-R, which is much softer than any auto paint, rub the towel over it, and look for scratches. A MF won't scratch the CD.


_Modified by Triumph at 2:23 PM 10-27-2003_


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (Triumph)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Triumph* »_
I completely disagree with *SN2BDNGRZB55's* assessment of a MF towel. MF towels are generally accepted to be made of 70% polyester, 30% polyamide (or maybe 80/20), NOT cotton, and they include a very high strand count. They will *NOT* scratch your paint. They will absorb 7 times more water than any cotton towel, thin weave or not.
_Modified by Triumph at 2:23 PM 10-27-2003_

You can disagree all you want, and you are entitled to your opinion. The reality is, though, that there ARE 100% Terry Cloth MF towels out there; The definition of MF does NOT mean that there has to be polyester or polymides just that there are a certain amount of thread counts per square inch (10's of thousands); and, that some towels with polymides DO scratch paint. I stated my EXPERIENCE (that a MF towel with polymers did glaze/scratch my paint) and was just advising people of a better product available to protect them of it. I did also say (if you read it) that you should use MF towels specifically designed for car detailing, so if there is a good one that included polymers, than so be it - I wouldn't buy it but to each his own. 
I never stated that all polymide towels will scratch paint, but how do you choose between the ones that do? Wouldn't it make sense to eliminate the possibility and just buy a Terry Cloth MF towel in the first place? Your entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean it's right. I'm sorry that your reality is clouded by the past - just because in the past most MF towels were made with polymers doesn't mean that all towels in the future have too.... don't you think that a company that really cares about the towel you use on your car would eventually develop a way to make a Terry Cloth MF towel?? Well, guess what they have. And, if you want to continue using polymer towels because they are "generally accepted", then by all means go ahead...I'm just giving people info based on my experience in hopes they can use it, not trying to say I'm right. Are you?
J
EDIT: I did a pretty detailed reply to someones question on Terry MF towels above, you should maybe check out the link I posted for http://www.microfiberplus.com.....


_Modified by SN2BDNGRZB55 at 3:23 PM 10-27-2003_


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## Triumph (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (SN2BDNGRZB55)*

Obviously this website is promoting their own product, that's why they can make such outlandish statements as "You should, as a rule, avoid any cloth material that is not 100% natural. Stay away from polyester, rayon, nylon, and the like." This goes against my experience, and the experience of hundred of professional and semi-professional detailers at the Autopia forums. Surely, there are bad MF towels out there, which is true for any product. And obviously these bad products are not the ones being used by professional detailers. But I repeat, the good MF towels _do not_ need to be made from natural materials, and *will not* scratch your paint. I wouldn't even consider that an opinion, as it's been tested countless times.

_Quote »_Contrary to popular believe, some MF towels are actually made up partially of polyesther/polymers (plastics basically) that are not abrasive, but are not soft either. If you could imagine taking a plastic bag and balling it up and rubbing on your car, it's like that. 

That isn't contrary to popular belief. All of the _popular_ MF towels are made from a polyester mixture. The very website you linked to even says that polyester MF fibers can be soft yet abrasive. (which I don't necessarily agree with) The plastic bag analogy isn't even close to being true.

_Quote »_A word on Micro Fiber Towels: be very cautious of which ones you buy before using on paint. Look for MF towels that are DESIGNED to be used on cars. *and that say they are 100% Cotton Terry cloth.*

If you would just remove the bolded part, then I would be happy. Let's not turn the thread into an argument, because this isn't the place for it. The basic problem is that you would like to steer people away from ALL MF towels, and only use 100% cotton. You are misrepresenting MF towels, and a F.A.Q. is the worst place for misinformation. I say there is absolutely no need "just be on the safe side" and steer clear of all MF towels.


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (Triumph)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Triumph* »_Obviously this website is promoting their own product, that's why they can make such outlandish statements as "You should, as a rule, avoid any cloth material that is not 100% natural. Stay away from polyester, rayon, nylon, and the like." This goes against my experience, and the experience of hundred of professional and semi-professional detailers at the Autopia forums. Surely, there are bad MF towels out there, which is true for any product. And obviously these bad products are not the ones being used by professional detailers. But I repeat, the good MF towels _do not_ need to be made from natural materials, and *will not* scratch your paint. I wouldn't even consider that an opinion, as it's been tested countless times.

I didn't buy from that website. I actually purchased my towels before looking up a website - I just posted that in reference to answering a question and recommended people look online and look around. I said I bought mine at Costco. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *Triumph* »_That isn't contrary to popular belief. All of the _popular_ MF towels are made from a polyester mixture. The very website you linked to even says that polyester MF fibers can be soft yet abrasive. (which I don't necessarily agree with) The plastic bag analogy isn't even close to being true.

You're right, that sentence seemed a little off.. It didn't turn out the way I meant it to. What I meant was that most people think that all MF towels are very soft, when indeed there are some that have more polymers and are better for cleaning and not good for paint. Thanks for pointing that out (as you can see from my FAQ, I was typing a lot!







)

_Quote, originally posted by *Triumph* »_If you would just remove the bolded part, then I would be happy. Let's not turn the thread into an argument, because this isn't the place for it. The basic problem is that you would like to steer people away from ALL MF towels, and only use 100% cotton. You are misrepresenting MF towels, and a F.A.Q. is the worst place for misinformation. I say there is absolutely no need "just be on the safe side" and steer clear of all MF towels.

Sorry, I didn't mean to mis-represent ALL MF towels, and I defenitely wasn't steering people away from MF. That is not quite accurate, considering I explained my preferences... but I did update the info to be less biased, although I still prefer 100% pure Terry MF towels. 
J


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## Triumph (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (SN2BDNGRZB55)*

Here's a very helpful beginner's guide to using the Porter Cable random orbital buffer. Explains all about the different pads, and has good advice for what product/pad combinaions work well for differing needs.
Link


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## ketch (Jun 23, 2001)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (SN2BDNGRZB55)*

Excuse me, but who told you there are "oils" in today's modern high solid clear coats?
These new generation (starting in the late 80's) are low solvent/high solid urethanes, and there are no "oils" left in the clear following the OEM paint assembly plants bake process. It removes the main solvent carrier, which is an emulsion of water and a hydrocarbon in the process.
The closest thing that you can lay your hands on to a modern clear is plastic, it is a chemical cousin of today's clears, just less porus.
Many of the products you apply to the clear when waxing or polishing due contain petroluem distillates and some polydimethalsiloxanes or polyaminosiloxanes, but these are not true "oils".
Just attempting to clear up some "old wives tales" that are continually perpertrated by old school product sales/marketing types.
Ketch


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## ChrisG (Jun 4, 2000)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (ketch)*

I am on your bus! Poly synthetic and urethane blends are what most car makers use as flux in there paint which is usually not there paint but PPGs or any of the other makers they sub out for their production needs.


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## ketch (Jun 23, 2001)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (ChrisG)*

How about "ALL" vehicle manufacturers, all 15 majors use.
They don't use old akiloid enamels or lacquers, they use high solid materials.
Even the "refinish" materials used by any accredited body shop is high solid/low solvent material, it's the "law" of the land.

A big difference in the chemistry of OEM assembly plant materials vs "body shop", but in reality, it is only in the curing of the materials that is different due to the chemistry, both are high solid/low solvent materials.
Ketch
Ketch


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (ketch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ketch* »_Excuse me, but who told you there are "oils" in today's modern high solid clear coats?
These new generation (starting in the late 80's) are low solvent/high solid urethanes, and there are no "oils" left in the clear following the OEM paint assembly plants bake process. It removes the main solvent carrier, which is an emulsion of water and a hydrocarbon in the process.
The closest thing that you can lay your hands on to a modern clear is plastic, it is a chemical cousin of today's clears, just less porus.
Many of the products you apply to the clear when waxing or polishing due contain petroluem distillates and some polydimethalsiloxanes or polyaminosiloxanes, but these are not true "oils".
Just attempting to clear up some "old wives tales" that are continually perpertrated by old school product sales/marketing types.
Ketch

That's OK Ketch, we know you try. Just to clarify, there aren't any OILS in Urethane or other 'plastics' paint - I used that as an acronym so people could have a visual understanding of what it was doing for their paint. However, the paints themselves ARE pourous (if not on an almost microscopic level) and can be broken down and made more brittle by effects on the evironment - air, acidic chemicals in rainfall water, UV damage, and other pollutants due break down those 'plastics' that are used (IE have you ever found an old plastic toy under you porch or around that's been sitting out? THe plastic is brittle and it's dis-colored). Todays glazes, while not containing the same 'oils' that were used in the old Hot Rod Style enamel paints, due contain restorative nutrients and revitalizers that elongate the life of any type of paint, and help protect against further damage. They go beyond just a polish and/or removing of oxidation. If that were not the case, then why would over 85% of winning show car people use them along WITH polishers, cleaners and wax. I know you are in the "car repair equipment" business Ketch, and hear a lot of things, but could you please do a little more research before you post mis-information? IM me if you have questions, thanks. 
J

_Modified by SN2BDNGRZB55 at 7:02 PM 11-9-2003_


_Modified by SN2BDNGRZB55 at 7:21 PM 11-9-2003_


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## ketch (Jun 23, 2001)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (SN2BDNGRZB55)*

Well, I have to tell you that you try, but the "facts" just don't go with what you are saying.
Yes, enviormental contaminates do attack and will break the "resin" system of todays clears.
If you wish to see a highly magnified cross section of today's paint system, I put it up on our corp web site, look under Tech Tips at http://www.autoint.com , it is there, and was provided, as is the "how today's paint systems are applied" by one of the 4 major OEM paint supplier we work with on a daily basis.
If one wishes to "feed" a modern high solid clear, you would have to add the certain plastizers back into it that the use of high alkaline cleaners, certain enviormental contaminates, remove.
A plastizer is acid based, and just like with rubber, vinyl, and paint, provide the gloss and elastic values needed.
The "resin" system is the key to holding it all together, attack that and it all comes apart.
"Oils" do not have these needed values.
Are you aware that an unprotected high solid clear on average, will absorb over one pint of water into the paint surface of the average vehicle, that the only thing that stops it from reaching the metal or other substrate used is the "e-coat"?
I just returned from a two week trip to the west coast, the first week I spent a day each with 4 of the largest importers paint and trim engineers, the last week at SEMA in our exhibit. Our exhibit was not for enthusists, but was visited by global parts distributors, vehicle manufacturers from around the world.
While there, I was approached by two large world manufacturers of vehicles, regarding providing consultation to them, which leaves only 4 of the 15 in the world that we don't work with on a regular basis.
I am not sharing this with you to "brag", but to let you know where I am coming from.
How about you? Do you work with Toyota, VW, BMW, Ford, GM(all divisions), DCX(all but MB), Renault, Nissan, Hyundia?
Their engineering groups?
Not trying to be throwing down, but I do know about today's paints and the issues that affect them, and I work with the paint suppliers to these manufacturers as well.
It is how I have made my living, aiding in building our company, for over 20 years.
Ketch


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (ketch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ketch* »_Well, I have to tell you that you try, but the "facts" just don't go with what you are saying.
Yes, enviormental contaminates do attack and will break the "resin" system of todays clears.
Ketch


Bla bla bla. I guess you didn't read my reply before you posted. Like I said, I used the word "oil" to give people a visual of what happens to the paint, and why you use a glaze - that meaning got lost in your attempt to show people how affluent you were in the technical jargon of today's point. Is it really 'oil' or is it some kind of chemical that restores the "plastizers" and "resins" in the paint? Who cares. The REAL point is that when you prep and polish your paint, you DO need to use a glaze to restore some of the elasticity and gloss that is lost by the damage that is in everyday contaminents/pollutants. Also, dish washing soap does go through the clear coat and damage the base/pigment coat on a three-stage finish, so again whether it's oil or it's not, the point is don't use dishwashing detergent, unless you dis-agree with that..








It's always fun when people over analyze info, but then totally lose the point. All of that mumbo-jumbo but never once did you say that what I advised was bad...







Sometimes it's better to not say anything at all.... 
Oh, FYI. Here's a FAQ from Meguiars.com... uh, the company the over 90% of show car winners use... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
From Meguiars.com: 
"Can a clear coat oxidize?
Most modern car finishes consist of a base coat that contains the colored pigment, topped with a protective clear coat that is designed to keep the pigmented paint from oxidizing. UV protection is added into the clear coat that helps prevent the sun's rays from fading the color coat.
Oxidation was an obvious problem ten years ago because you quickly saw the color on a single-stage finish fade. With today's modern clear coat finishes, oxidation is less obvious, yet it still occurs.
Here is how it happens, the sun dries out the top layer of clear paint, just like it does to a single-stage finish and when this happens, the paints natural oils are lost.
Exposure to inclement weather and frequent washing, (especially with a harsh detergent like dish washing soap), further dries your paint out by leaching the natural oils out of your paint.
As the natural oils are removed, water and other destructive elements begin to attack your finish. If these oils aren't replaced, your clear coat paint will oxidize and the surface will gradually become duller. Although modern paint technology is much more resistant to oxidation, nevertheless, it will oxidize when neglected and/or improperly maintained. 

For more information call our Customer Care Center at 1-800-545-3321, and talk with a surface care specialist. Or, use the convenience of e-mail. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can a clear coat fade?
No and yes.
The word Fade means to, _lose color or brightness gradually_. 
Technically speaking, since the clear has no color… it cannot fade or lose it's brightness. At least if we use the above definition. It can become dull, but that's not the same as fading.
Can the color coat below the clear coat fade? In short… Yes. But, it depends on the environment. A car parked inside most of it's life, far away from the equator will not show much sign of fading. Conversely, a car continually parked outside in a desert region close to the equator will fade more quickly and the results will be more apparent over time.
These are the technically correct answers. The non-technical answer to the question, "Can a clear coat fade?" is yes, but very slowly. So slowly that most people cannot perceive any change through the course of day to day living.

For more information call our Customer Care Center at 1-800-545-3321, and talk with a surface care specialist. Or, use the convenience of e-mail. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can a clear coat get dull?
Most modern car finishes consist of a base coating that contains the color, topped with a protective clear coat that is designed to keep the pigmented paint from oxidizing. This outer clear coat adds UV protection that helps prevent the sun's rays from drying out the base paint. Oxidation was an obvious problem ten years ago because you quickly saw the color fade. Now that the outer layer is usually clear, oxidation is less obvious, yet it still occurs. The sun dries out top paint layers and natural oils are lost. If these oils aren't replaced, the paint oxidizes and the surface gradually becomes duller and duller. 
Even more than yesterday's paints, today's clear coat finishes look faded whenever the surface becomes contaminated by airborne pollution, acid rain, industrial fallout, and countless other factors. If the contamination isn't removed frequently, it reduces the reflective quality of the finish until it looks dull and lifeless. If the contamination is left on the car for some time, it can begin to etch into the thin clear coat paint layer and expose the base coat to direct UV rays and even greater damage. 
Once the clear coat protection is gone the car usually requires costly repainting. 
For more information call our Customer Care Center at 1-800-545-3321, and talk with a surface care specialist. Or, use the convenience of e-mail. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------"

and so on. I guess if I can't help you, maybe you should email Barry Meguiar? 
J



_Modified by SN2BDNGRZB55 at 8:37 PM 11-9-2003_


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## nOOb (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (SN2BDNGRZB55)*

k i read through some of the stuff people have submitted. some very good stuff. i detail showroom cars, ie. make them ready to go into the showrooms. can take up to 6-8 hours depending on the car and color. black ones are the hardest and take around 7 usually.
for everything i do i have a detail bay. sounds fancy not too hard to do youself. get some fluorescnet lights, a space heater or 2, dust free area, where you can hose off things. not too hard.
most people have the washing techniques down good.
for drying:
wash the car outside roll it in.i have already cranked the heaters on full blast so the room is freakin hot. i am sweating just standing there. i go over the windows with a squegee and the entire car with another one cleaning after each sweep. just gets the majoirty of the water off there :edit: any fine scratches you do put into the car you end up taking out when you do the color cut anywayz:edit:. i go grab a coffee let the heater do the rest 
next i claybar the car
claybar:
make sure you use a good bar. we use a bar from our supplier so i dont know what kind it is exactly buts its around $80 for the bars and we have different strengths for different colours and cars. 
try to use lots of lubricant, soap and water is really good, just somthing so the bar doesn't stick. make small circles and go panel by panel. try to wash the car after each panel so lots of grit doesn't get in there
do the whole car, sedans usually take around an hour and a bit to do. 
wash the car to get the soap and clay off, make sure you get it all off.
bring car back in and dry it off by hand. let the heater do the work again.
i usually let the car sit for about 15 minutes once dry in the hot bay so that the paint begins to become warm. makes for easy waxing.
waxing:
usually do 4 waxes in total, color cut, lustre, shine, and then a shine enhancer
when i use the color cut i usually do 2 coats and buff off with a wool pad on the buffer at around 1800rpm. if there are still some scratches i will do as many as neccessary.
lustre i will do about 2 or 3 coats again depending on the coat quality. light colors get done with a buffer dark ones especially black get done by hand.
shine: do a coat by hand and take off by hand
shine enhancer: again 2 coats take off by hand.
stand back and admire, fix any imperfections that are then seen.
key is to be in a warm bay. wax dries quicker, goes on better comes off better. it is usually better to let the wax sit for a few minutes until it is fully dry. it comes off easier but works better and doesn't haze the paint.
then i just roll it into the showroom and use a showroom cloth to remove any fingerprints and dust.....and wait for the little f u c k e r s to put their hands all over it.









hope that helped some people. 


_Modified by nOOb at 1:35 PM 12-5-2003_


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## nOOb (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (nOOb)*

to remove hard water spots on windows windex and a piece of light strength steel wool does the job and wont scratch. you can do it without the windex if you want and it wont do anything but we tend to use a little windex to help it slide better.


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## mike75bug (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (SN2BDNGRZB55)*

I would also like to add the "double wash" method. 
My friend was a detailing freak (washed his car almost every day, waxed twice a week). and what he would do wash a section (like the roof), rinse, then wash again, and rinse again.
I started using this method and was amazed at how much cleaner my car came out. It really didn't add a whole lot of time to the process of washing the car, but made a HUGE difference on how clean the car ended up.
Try it out, you will be surprised


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (mike75bug)*

Something came to mind now that is winter.... 
I usually put more wax on my car in October/November. I don't usually wax and fully detail my car until March, so for a longer period I use 2 to 3 coats of a thicker paste wax (I usually use a liquid wax during spring/summer). With the additonal precipitation - especially in the PNW where I live - you need additional protection for the extra junk and oil coming up off the road and through the rain/snow. I also wash my car more often - I go through a 'touchless' car wash if it's been a heavy week, even if it's raining that day. I don't like carwashes, but the touchless ones are better than the 'soft rag' or bristle washes. I also ONLY do that if it is a particularily heavy precipitation week (sometimes it rains 10-14 days straight around here). Don't buy any of that extra protection junk, just the basic $3-6 wash. It's good to keep the extra dirt off the car if weather doesn't permit spending 30mins outside washing your car, or it it's just really really dirty. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (SN2BDNGRZB55)*

I don't know why I didn't post this before, but here is a REALLY REALLY useful link to Meguiars CarCareRX tool - it asks you a series of questions and makes recommendations for taking care of your paint: 
http://www.meguiars.com/carrx.cfm 
Of course, it recommends Meguiars products, but if you have a different brand preference you can see the type of products used and how they are applied, and cross reference that to your favorite line of products. Happy Detailing!!


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## zapper65 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (Anthony[email protected])*

Simple, I have a 2001 black Jetta and all I use is the 3M perfect_it line of products


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (zapper65)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zapper65* »_Simple, I have a 2001 black Jetta and all I use is the 3M perfect_it line of products

I've heard that 3M is good (that's what a lot of body shops use...although most companies put out the same product at different levels...). Is that a professional/commercial grade product that is usually only available to shops, or is it an available consumer level product. There is a difference, and some products should only be used with certain types of equipment like a rotary buffer, while some are good to go for just a standard dual-action or random orbit buffer that is widely used by at-home detailers.. thanks! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DFTowel (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (SN2BDNGRZB55)*

Ok folks, I've been reading with interest the many comments about MF in this forum and I figured I'd better register and help clear up some of the gross misconceptions that are forming. The information being presented here is mostly incorrect.
First of all let me state that I am a textile designer and weaver and have been in the textile business for over 25 yrs. Much of what you read on the internet is hogwash, it is advertising hype and you must learn to read between the lines.
Microfiber is NOT any particular material, it is not strictly polyester, or nylon, or cotton, or cellulose, or whatever. MF is a term used to describe the thickness of a filamant of yarn. The technical term for this is "denier." A yarn of 1 denier is 9000 yards long and weighs 1 gram, microfiber is any yarn below a denier of .2 Therefore MF can be made from man made fibers such as polyester or rayon or it can be natural such as cotton or other cellulose. Microfiber is not any particular weave, when you say 100% Terry MF it makes no sense. 
MF filaments are spun together, usually with other materials, to form a single strand of yarn which is then combined with other yarn to make a thread which is used in the weaving of the cloth. Forget about 90,000 or 100,000 thread count, there is no such animal. Forget about thread count completely. Thread count has nothing to do with quality or softness. A good analogy would be that burap can have a higher thread count than a cotton shheet, would you use burlap on your car?
Without going intoi too much further detail suffice it to say that a natural materail is less prone to scratching than a man made. That is not to say that natural won't scratch! What you need to watch out for is the quality of the material and how it is made. It is a difficult thing to determine so the best thing to do is check web sites such as http://www.autopia.org, http://www.showcargarage.com, and http://www.detailcity.com and see what people there like to use. Make an informed decision as to what you think you may want and thenn buy a towel or two from the better manufacturers (stay away from Wal Mart and Costco as they have very inconsistent quality.) Once you get to try the towels you can then decide what is best for you, everyone has their own preferences.
Leo


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## DFTowel (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (DFTowel)*

Sorry but I need to elaborate on something. I keep seeing you mention that 100% Terry MF is something new. This is totally false! Terry towels made from MF yarns of various types have been around for 20 yrs! You also say that certain thread counts make a towel terry or poly. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Terry is a type of weave (the familiar loops you see on towels) it has absolutely nothing to do with content (poly, cotton, whatever) or thread size (MF or not.)
You need to understand that a terry towel can be all cotton non MF, cotton MF, Poly MF, Poly MF with nylon, cellulose MF with cotton, silk!, rayone, linen, etc. etc. etc. 
Something else you need to look for in a towel and that is the stitching. Many lower quality MF towels sometimes are sewn with polyester thread which in itself can scratch your paint so be carfull. Also be sure to remove any labels that may be attached.
You also need to be wary of mislabeled products. Many towels labeled All Cotton for example coming from India, Pakistan, and the Orient may not be 100% cotton, don't always believe the labels.
Leo


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (DFTowel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DFTowel* »_Sorry but I need to elaborate on something. I keep seeing you mention that 100% Terry MF is something new. This is totally false! Terry towels made from MF yarns of various types have been around for 20 yrs! You also say that certain thread counts make a towel terry or poly. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Terry is a type of weave (the familiar loops you see on towels) it has absolutely nothing to do with content (poly, cotton, whatever) or thread size (MF or not.)
You need to understand that a terry towel can be all cotton non MF, cotton MF, Poly MF, Poly MF with nylon, cellulose MF with cotton, silk!, rayone, linen, etc. etc. etc. 
Something else you need to look for in a towel and that is the stitching. Many lower quality MF towels sometimes are sewn with polyester thread which in itself can scratch your paint so be carfull. Also be sure to remove any labels that may be attached.
You also need to be wary of mislabeled products. Many towels labeled All Cotton for example coming from India, Pakistan, and the Orient may not be 100% cotton, don't always believe the labels.
Leo

Leo, 
Thank you for the detailed information about what to look for in a good detailing towel, and especially for clearing up a lot of mis-conceptions about what kind of fibers make what, and what Terry really means. I think most of us are so familiar with the terms "Terry" and "Cotton" in the same sentence that it is generally assumed that a "terry" cloth has to be cotton - I know I did. Also, I did mention in my experience that the towels I have seen advertised (advertised being the key word, as you mentioned) with higher thread counts usually stated a higher polymer/polyester percentage, but that wasn't meant as a rule, just what I had seen in my shopping around various sites and local car shops. Also, I did assume that Terry MF was new, only because MF was new to me in the consumer market in general and I hadn't seen Terry MF towels in the past. I apologize if I miss-informed anybody. 
However, I do have a question. Obviously you want to get a towel that is soft and won't have any potential for damaging your paint. So, are cotton towels generally less susceptible to scratching? What is the softest fabric? Also, what does thread count tell you about anything, or does it? Will thread count tell you how absorbent a towel is? What is typically the highest thread count you can get? The MF towels I found are Terry, they are Cotton, and they are MF (although it doesn't state thread count, and they are made in the U.S. so hopefully they are pure cotton). I did get them at Costco, however being skeptical of prior MF experiences, I tested them on an inconspicuous spot on my car before using them all the time. The ends of the towels have been sewn almost like a piping that is very very small - the tufts from the towel actually almost entirely encapsulate them. I tried using the towels on a CD like suggested by Triumph, pressing very hard, and the towels made absolutely not even a hint of a mark.. and they have been great on my car. I guess that makes them a good towel. But, I am curious if there are types of materials that you should AVOID when looking at good detailing towels. Can you elaborate a little? 
Thanks so much for your input Leo! It was great for you to jump in an help us enthusiasts make sure our cars had the best of the best! 
Jesse


_Modified by SN2BDNGRZB55 at 9:46 PM 1-23-2004_


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## DFTowel (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (SN2BDNGRZB55)*

So, are cotton towels generally less susceptible to scratching?
Yes but that is not to say cotton can't scratch. Nor is it saying polyester will scratch. Abrasiveness is more related to the treatment and production of the yarn rather than what it is.
What is the softest fabric?
That's like saying who is the prettiest girl or what is the best color car! A fabric that feels soft can be more abrasive than one that feels stiffer. Generally, however, softer fabrics are made of natural materials rather than man mades such as polyester. Sometimes softness is due to finishes such as silicone added to the fabric thus folling you into thinking they are soft, much like fabric softners.
Also, what does thread count tell you about anything, or does it?
It means nothing to the end user, thread count is simply the number of threads in a square inch (or centimeter.) Many distributors quote outlandish thread counts like 90,000 or more. 90,000 what? Are they quoting threads or the filaments that make up the threads. Are they quoting both sides or one side of the fabric? Thread count is typically the threads which usually can be counted at about 500 or so, anything much denser you will have a satin fabric which certainly will be too smooth and non absorbent. Forget thread count
Will thread count tell you how absorbent a towel is?
Not exactly, absorbency is more related to the content (cotton, linen, polyester, whatever) However, for a fabric made up of a particular fiber such as cotton for example, a denser weave (higher thread count) mauy be more absorbant than a less dense one. Again, don't worry about thread count.
What is typically the highest thread count you can get?
Depends on the yarn size and the content... FORGET ABOUT THREAD COUNT!!
The MF towels I found are Terry, they are Cotton, and they are MF (although it doesn't state thread count, and they are made in the U.S. so hopefully they are pure cotton).
You are again using the term MF as if it is a particular content, saying something is MF or cotton is wrong... MF refers to a very fine yarn which can be cottnn, cellulose, polyester, rayon, or other fibers. 
I did get them at Costco, however being skeptical of prior MF experiences, I tested them on an inconspicuous spot on my car before using them all the time. The ends of the towels have been sewn almost like a piping that is very very small - the tufts from the towel actually almost entirely encapsulate them. I tried using the towels on a CD like suggested by Triumph, pressing very hard, and the towels made absolutely not even a hint of a mark.. and they have been great on my car. I guess that makes them a good towel. But, I am curious if there are types of materials that you should AVOID when looking at good detailing towels. Can you elaborate a little?
Avoid steel wool!







Hard question to answer but my personal opinion is to stay away from man made fibers because they can be inconsistent BUT many people swear by them and never have a problem. To each his own!
The CD test is not gospel! It is only a guide, if the towel scratches the CD it still may not harm your car as the CD is much softer than your car's finish.


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (DFTowel)*

SO, thread count doesn't matter....? J/K I think we get the picture. 
I am trying to grasp the whole MF thing. Okay, so a towel really CAN'T be MF then, right? Tell me if this is right: MF is a _type_ of yarn? So a towel can be made of cotton MF spun yarn, and can be made with Terry loops, but that just basically makes a really dense cotton terry towel, right? Because the yarn is more dense when it is MF spun? SO, these companies are doing some type of irrelevant calculations on how many threads their towels have in each yarn to dupe people into thinking that it has 1000s of times more threads than normal towels basically. 
I think I'll stick to your website!!


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## DFTowel (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (SN2BDNGRZB55)*

In a nutshell: microfiber refers to very fine yarn below a certain diameter. That is simply all there is to it. It can be any of a number of fibers (cotton, polyester, rayone, nylon, wood!\ fiber, almost anything)
Try to think of it like pasta... spaghetti is thick, angel hair is very thin... but they are both made of the same thing. Same withh microfiber, you can have standard cotton yarn or you can have microfiber cotton yarn.
Clear now?


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## jettaivglxvr6 (Dec 26, 2001)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (DFTowel)*

To DFTowel and others:
Whoever answers this gets a prize,
When using a microfiber towel on your paint for polishing and waxing use ________________(varitey/brand/etc) and it can be found at________________.

I currently have three black VWs and I only want to do the best for my cars. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DFTowel (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (jettaivglxvr6)*

When using a microfiber towel on your paint for polishing and waxing use ________________(varitey/brand/etc) and it can be found at________________.
Well obviously my answer would be http://www.dftowel.com but there are plenty of choices out there for all different budgets.


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## AudiNick (Sep 27, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (DFTowel)*

I didn't see too many topics about engine bay cleaning so ill give my 2 cents:
first off spray down the engine bay, and do it after the cars cooled down (its not really that important but people think your having engine trouble otherwise







) be careful around open wires too.
get the Gunk brand engine cleaner (its a canadian product so i dont know if you guys get it) and spray it all on the engine bay, this product removes any dirt or any of that matter, spray it off, for hard hit areas use a brush to help get it off.
Dry off your enigine, then use some WD-40 spray it on the various tubes trimming and valve cover and wipe it down with a dry towel, this will give it a nice shine that lasts
enjoy!


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (AudiNick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AudiNick* »_I didn't see too many topics about engine bay cleaning so ill give my 2 cents:
first off spray down the engine bay, and do it after the cars cooled down (its not really that important but people think your having engine trouble otherwise







) be careful around open wires too.
get the Gunk brand engine cleaner (its a canadian product so i dont know if you guys get it) and spray it all on the engine bay, this product removes any dirt or any of that matter, spray it off, for hard hit areas use a brush to help get it off.
Dry off your enigine, then use some WD-40 spray it on the various tubes trimming and valve cover and wipe it down with a dry towel, this will give it a nice shine that lasts
enjoy!

I like the WD-40 tip - used it on other parts too. Thanks for bringing up engine bay - it's important and a lot of people forget it. Another good tip if you don't want to use a lot of high chemical degreasers is ... Simple Green! Most of the time it is watered down for general cleaning, but as it comes in its concentrate form it will make an engine beautiful, and no nasty smell. In fact, it smells pretty damn good! Always let your engine cool before applying water to the engine compartment - it just avoids putting stress on the metal from rapid temperature change. Mist the engine with water. Spray it down with concentrated Simple Green. Let it soak for a good 15-20 minutes but don't let it dry. Then just spray it off. It took off caked on motor oil that I had splashed on the head after topping off. It's "Green" too, enviro friendly. My .02


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## Triumph (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (SN2BDNGRZB55)*

Two things I realized recently that are often forgotten, but really make your car feel like new:
- Clean your door jams! These never come clean when washing the outside of the car. After I wash, I open up all the doors and clean everywhere with a soapy rag. I'm not so concerned about scratches here.
- Don't forget to treat your rubber door seams with your favorite vinyl/rubber treatment. They look so much better when you give them a new black shine.
It's the little things that matter, not those large boring surfaces of color.


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## 550spyder2276 (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (basshead22)*

Using any decent glass cleaner with a dedicated Micro fiber towel will guarantee streak free results.


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## 550spyder2276 (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (Triumph)*

_Modified by 550spyder2276 at 6:55 PM 2-29-2004_


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## DFTowel (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (550spyder2276)*

550spyder2276, you said the following in the now edited post above:
"There is no such thing as a 100% cotton micro Fiber. ALL microfibers are basically made of super fine strands of Nylon and Polyester."
That statement is 100% wrong and quite irresponsible. I love it when people who know nothing about a product or industry make such outrageous statements. Microfiber cotton filament certainly does exist, in fact, I am looking at a skean of it here in my office. Microfber only refers to the diameter of a filament of yarn, not to it's content. 


_Modified by DFTowel at 11:43 PM 2-29-2004_


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## adg44 (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: Detailing Forum "How-To" (DFTowel)*

This thread has gotten way off topic of what I intended when I created it. 
I will lock this thread now, and start a new one like that which is in the G/J IV forum, with links to topics answering frequent questions. 
So, for the time being, please post questions/answers like these in their own topics, so I can link to them later. 
Thank you,
- Anthony


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