# TDI in a B5 audi quattro ***swap idea, has this been done before***



## Old_school_hare (Feb 2, 2009)

*TDI in a B5 audi quattro: Swap idea, has this been done before?*

Looking for some info regarding an uncommon swap idea. Would it
be possible to fit a TDI engine into a B5 Audi A4 quattro? Models with
V6's are fairly cheap around here. A biodiesel powered quattro would
seem like a fresh idea. I know that the swap would not end with just
a simple engine transplant. Could the fuel tank from a passat TDI be
fitted on an A4? 
Please feel free to provide your 2 cents.



_Modified by Old_school_hare at 5:17 PM 2-2-2009_


----------



## erknjerk (Feb 23, 2006)

*Re: TDI in a B5 audi quattro: Swap idea, has this been done before? (Old_school_hare)*

Me want know too. Me want diesel!


----------



## AbsoluteNovice (Feb 12, 2006)

*Re: TDI in a B5 audi quattro: Swap idea, has this been done before? (erknjerk)*

It would fit but I always thought the factory beat you to, hasn't this been an option in other countries? You could make it work though, I'm not sure if other people have done it but it could work. I believe the 6 cylinder Audi motor uses a different bell housing so you may need to find a 4 cylinder one but everything else should work.


----------



## Old_school_hare (Feb 2, 2009)

*Re: TDI in a B5 audi quattro: Swap idea, has this been done before? (AbsoluteNovice)*

I believe you are correct. My next step was to find a copy of a shop
manual from a european source. Since I speak french, I could try
searching the Belgian, French and Swiss forums of similar sites.
Fuel prices will go up, I believe a 4wd car with a strong diesel engine
would make perfect sense. The quattro system is still the best IMHO.
And I have a thing for the first gen A4s. If someone from this forum
can help, please feel free to add a comment. I believe that this swap
is entirely doable, I just need to get an idea of the major hurdles I 
could encounter. Just switching fuels is something to consider. It 
would surely require a new tank (from a TDI passat?), new pumps
and fuel lines. Would a $10 000 budget be sufficient or would it
require more funds that that? I can fabricate many custom pieces
myself if required, but electronics make me shudder. I need a
few pointers in that area. A friend of mine told me that the 
quattro system requires a TPS signal to activate properly.
TDIs do not have throttle position sensors. Could a custom
''Pedal position sensor'' be adapted using a potentiometer? 
Who are the resident quattro experts around here?








Thanks


----------



## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: TDI in a B5 audi quattro: Swap idea, has this been done before? (Old_school_hare)*

It has indeed been done by the factory for many years. We've had 1.9 4-cyl and 2.5 6-cyl A4 Quattros since the B5. I have an A6 C5 2.5 TDI Quattro and its fab








The bellhousing is identical between 4 and 6-cyl motors so it would bolt straight up. But, the gear ratios would be wrong, since the TDI has much higher gearing than the gas models. You would really need to get the TDI transmission as well for it to work properly. I don't know what interaction the Quattro system has with the engine, so whether you could use an FWD donor or not I don't know, but that can be found out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Most of the A4 TDI Quattros are the 2.5 V6 engine, which you don't want in the US because its high maintenance and would be a nightmare to get parts for. Plus it probably wouldn't be legal, since you never got that engine in a production model. There are 1.9 Quattros knocking about though, for about $5000, or 1.9 FWD cars for about $2000 for which you'd need to source a Q transmission separately (about $1000).
Pay someone (







) to strip it and ship everything on a pallet, and you have a plug and play conversion








You would need the motor, mounts and hardware, intercooler & pipework, fuel system (lines & tank), electronics (motor loom & ecu, cluster, pedal cluster), water pipework & possibly rad.
Possibly you could just ship the entire car, but I doubt it would be legal to 'import' it, since you never got it as a production model. Whether there is a way of bringing in a car for parts I don't know.
I have all the factory manuals. Email me if you want pictures of anything in particular http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif (addy in my profile)
Mikki


----------



## Old_school_hare (Feb 2, 2009)

*Re: TDI in a B5 audi quattro: Swap idea, has this been done before? (MikkiJayne)*

You guys get all the good cars, we get the crumbs. Diesel engines are a rare sight around here except for large trucks, VDubs and Mercedes Benz. Why can't we get Mitsubishi Pajeros around here? It's the most common little truck everywhere else on the planet. What about the toyota Hilux and Nissan Patrol. That's not counting all the little hatches you get in Europe. The Toyota Yaris is powered by a diesel engine everywhere else but here. Why can't we get Polos and Lupos? 
Sometimes, I begin considering a geographical change. Southern
France would be nice.
Thanks for your input, but as I read your reply, I started wondering
if it was all worthwhile. If I ever import a vehicle from another
continent, it won't be a diesel audi. I'd have to wait 3 more years
for a 1996 model. Cars 15 years and older can be imported and registered easily in Canada.There are many right-hand drive JDM
cars around. But a 15 year old car is a 15 year old car. Considering
all the work involved, I'd choose a Golf MK2 country instead. Maybe
an UrQuattro. For now, I think I'll stick with my MK1 GTI. Rabbits rule. 
This pretty much answers my question about this particular swap. 
It does'nt seem possible to make it happen without importing 
many expensive parts. I would have considered the project if
parts could have been sourced out locally, but this is more 
than I care to take on right now. We can keep the post going 
though, maybe someone else would care to take the challenge.

_Modified by Old_school_hare at 5:56 PM 2-6-2009_


_Modified by Old_school_hare at 5:57 PM 2-6-2009_


----------



## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: TDI in a B5 audi quattro: Swap idea, has this been done before? (Old_school_hare)*

Well my post was really answering 'can this be done for under $10000?' - yes, and it will be plug and play.
But, if you want to do it cheaper then it is possible to use the TDI motor from a B3/4 Passat or mk3 Golf/Jetta (or indeed any 4-cyl TDI). That will bolt to the Q transmission, and you can get the mounts & FW from a Euro 4-cyl B5 easily enough. You need to fab the intercooler plumbing, exhaust manifold and downpipe, etc, and also graft the wiring in to the Audi harness. You can use the original fuel tank and lines with that motor too, since it has no lift pump. Plus with a decent turbo, injectors, and tune the TDI engine can make well over 200hp & 300tq.
Its all do-able http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Your biggest problem would be the transmission ratios, as the V6 is far too low geared for the TDI engine. Still, if the worst you had to do was import a TDI Q transmission for a couple of Gs thats not out of this world. You could even get a 6-speed too








PS don't come to Europe just for the small cars! With our overtaxed gas prices a Lupo TDI costs as much to feed here as an Audi V8 does in the US







We're currently paying about 3 times more than you, even with the crappy value of the £








You don't get the diesel versions of things because very few of them can meet US emissions regs. Its not worth re-engineering them to do so because of the perception of diesel over there, and the differential in diesel & gas prices.
Mikki


----------



## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: TDI in a B5 audi quattro: Swap idea, has this been done before? (MikkiJayne)*

You need this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Audi-A4-...wItem
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Old_school_hare (Feb 2, 2009)

*Re: TDI in a B5 audi quattro: Swap idea, has this been done before? (MikkiJayne)*

I really do appreciate your efforts, it has been very helpfull, but the
situation has changed. The project will have to wait, I may loose my
job shortly. No funds will be available for a new car. I may even have
to choose between my babies. Difficult choices are ahead but one 
thing's for sure, the MK1 is staying.
Is anyone else around here interested in keeping this thread going?
A parts list could be established, it could be usefull to someone.


----------



## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: TDI in a B5 audi quattro: Swap idea, has this been done before? (Old_school_hare)*

Damn this economy







Hope things work out ok for you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------

