# Just bought an EOS with blown BPY engine



## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

It is a 2007 with 86 thousand miles on it. The story surrounding the engine failure it car was running fine cruising at highway speed, engine started shaking and chugging, pulled into rest-area engine stalled and would not restart. Towed to VW dealer they said car needed a new engine. I bought it as it. when cranking one cylinder is firing other 3 dead. Has zero compression on cylinders 1/2&4. Leak down reveals air leaking out exhaust. Timing belt and cams are in alignment. Any tips on cylinder head removal?


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## ultraperio (Mar 6, 2013)

That sounds pretty much exactly like what happened to mine. Only it was a single cylinder with no compression.

VW said they had to pull the head before they knew it needed a new engine. I wonder how the dealer in your case came to that conclusion?


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

It is possible to look inside the engine with a scope through the spark plug hole.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Michael W Dane said:


> It is possible to look inside the engine with a scope through the spark plug hole.


Yes.......we use borescopes with a mirror attachment on them to go through spark plugs holes and inspect the valves for damage. 

You're sure the cams both line up? Have you pulled valve cover to check them yet? The issue with the BPY engines that were slightly neglected and did not have correct oil changes was the cam chain tensioner would loose pressure and cause slack in chain that would in turn break the chain and cause valves to hit the pistons. If the belt is still there and looks fine, the chain would be my guess. 

To get in there to it....
- Remove HPFP and follower
- Remove valve cover
- Remove brake vacuum pump(side of head by battery) 3 T30 torx
- Remove cam chain housing cover(side of head behind brake vacuum housing) 6 T30 torx

Then you'll be able to see everything. You'll probably find other stuff along the way as well if the engine was a sludge victim. 
J. Hines


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

Well I got the head off tonight. The interior of the engine is not sludged up at all. Just a normal golden coating of deposits. The cams were lined up perfectly, the oil in the sump looked fairly clean. (I have no service records whatsoever). The exhaust valves on the three cylinders looked more or less like the bad one in the other Eos with the blown motor. On one exhaust valve almost 1/2 of the head is burnt off. The cylinder walls look normal. No unusual smells from the engine like it was overheated. Coolant looks like new. I am an auto technician for 40 years and have always owned a VW but I don't work on them in my day job. The FSI engine is completely foreign to me. My other VW is a 99 Cabrio with the ABA engine, it has 232K miles on it and I swear it runs like new. My wife has a 98 Cabrio with 110K on it. We would like to upgrade her Cabrio with the Eos. Can I get some encouragement please.


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## vce1232000 (Apr 10, 2001)

You either source out some new valves.I believe someone on here suggested Supertech valves and send out the head to a machine shop and have them rebuild.Buy a head gasket set and reinstall.

Or get a used head complete and gasket set and install.I would get the head checked for warpage 1st.I see used heads go for about 500.00 to 700.00 for bpy code

Or get a used head and have the machine shop rebuild that one.


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

vce1232000 said:


> You either source out some new valves.I believe someone on here suggested Supertech valves and send out the head to a machine shop and have them rebuild.Buy a head gasket set and reinstall.
> 
> Or get a used head complete and gasket set and install.I would get the head checked for warpage 1st.I see used heads go for about 500.00 to 700.00 for bpy code
> 
> Or get a used head and have the machine shop rebuild that one.


I'm going to send this head to the machine shop and have those guys check it out. I am also going to pull out the pistons and re-ring them. I am baffled on how this could happen to an engine in normal operation though.


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## ultraperio (Mar 6, 2013)

Michael W Dane said:


> Well I got the head off tonight. The interior of the engine is not sludged up at all. Just a normal golden coating of deposits. The cams were lined up perfectly, the oil in the sump looked fairly clean. (I have no service records whatsoever). The exhaust valves on the three cylinders looked more or less like the bad one in the other Eos with the blown motor. On one exhaust valve almost 1/2 of the head is burnt off. The cylinder walls look normal. No unusual smells from the engine like it was overheated. Coolant looks like new. I am an auto technician for 40 years and have always owned a VW but I don't work on them in my day job. The FSI engine is completely foreign to me. My other VW is a 99 Cabrio with the ABA engine, it has 232K miles on it and I swear it runs like new. My wife has a 98 Cabrio with 110K on it. We would like to upgrade her Cabrio with the Eos. Can I get some encouragement please.


Possibly issues with the fuel injectors causing it to run excessively lean on top of the already
high air:fuel ratios these DI engines run at?


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

ultraperio said:


> Possibly issues with the fuel injectors causing it to run excessively lean on top of the already
> high air:fuel ratios these DI engines run at?


Maybe, of course the oil was diluted with gas, the battery was dead too when I got the car so no codes. Head is going to machine shop tomorrow. I've got to drop the oil pump next and pull out the pistons. When I flipped over the head to take a photo the head of a small 6mm (head size) 12 point bolt fell out. Any idea where this goes? here are a couple of photos of it. You have to copy and paste into your browser. I don't know how to post photos here at the moment. 
http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=667073&stc=1&d=1362708820
http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=667081&stc=1&d=1362708813

Here is a close up of the head 

http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=667089&stc=1&d=1362708813


Thanks for your input here.

Mike


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## ultraperio (Mar 6, 2013)

Michael W Dane said:


> Maybe, of course the oil was diluted with gas, the battery was dead too when I got the car so no codes. Head is going to machine shop tomorrow. I've got to drop the oil pump next and pull out the pistons. When I flipped over the head to take a photo the head of a small 6mm (head size) 12 point bolt fell out. Any idea where this goes? here are a couple of photos of it. You have to copy and paste into your browser. I don't know how to post photos here at the moment.


Your photos don't work. 
To post here upload them to somewhere like www.imgur.com, then copy their location and past it here with the







tags on either side, just like you do with a quote.

Have you pulled the HPFP off and/or taken a look at the cam and follower? Gas in the oil might be a HPFP failure.

No clue about the random bolt.


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

yes the HPFP follower and cam are in perfect condition. I removed the housing before delivering head to machine shop.


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

*2.0t bpy*

Today I removed the oil pump module and pistons. The oil pump drive chain appears worn as well as the crank sprocket and sprocket for the balance shaft, I suspect the chain is also stretched. The rings had a good end gap the oil control rings are not plugged with carbon, and the cylinder bores look very good. The piston rings seem to have little tension, maybe normal I don't have any reference. The rod bearings look great. Again, little sludge in the bottom end. I've noticed in the manual that many of the bolts I think would not be critical like the ones for the oil pump module are torque to yield and not reusable. I wonder if anyone reuses them. I also wonder where is the best place to source parts for this engine like piston rings, oil pump chain and sprockets, bolts, gaskets etc, besides VW. Still waiting to hear back from the machine shop on the cylinder head.


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## JOSHFL420 (Mar 17, 2003)

Fuel in the oil is ok to a point. Being that the car is DI there will always be a smell of fuel in oil. Even buddies WRX (non DI) smells of gas in oil, its common. 

If you put a new battery on it you might be able to see the codes that were stored in the ECU. 

How do the coils look? Any cracks on the bodies? What shape are the plugs in? How does the oil cap look?

I have had recent luck with PartsGeek maybe look for the parts you need there.


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

JOSHFL420 said:


> Fuel in the oil is ok to a point. Being that the car is DI there will always be a smell of fuel in oil. Even buddies WRX (non DI) smells of gas in oil, its common.
> 
> If you put a new battery on it you might be able to see the codes that were stored in the ECU.
> 
> ...


The coils look good no cracks. The plugs look black and fouled except the cylinder that still had compression. Oil cap looks fine, gasket is in good condition. anyone on the torque to yield bolts? Obviously I'm putting new on the head, rods, crank and oil pump sprocket.


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

*Fired it up!*

I finally got my Eos running tonight for the first time since I bought it and after doing a ring and valve job to it. It started right up. The problem I'm having is the lifters are very noisy. I am using Castrol oil and VW coolant that came right from the VW dealer. I didn't have much time to work after getting it started but I let it warm up enough so the thermostat opened. The lifter noise did go down slightly but not much. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.


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## U.G. MKV (May 31, 2010)

Michael W Dane said:


> I finally got my Eos running tonight for the first time since I bought it and after doing a ring and valve job to it. It started right up. The problem I'm having is the lifters are very noisy. I am using Castrol oil and VW coolant that came right from the VW dealer. I didn't have much time to work after getting it started but I let it warm up enough so the thermostat opened. The lifter noise did go down slightly but not much. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.


 Are you sure it's not the injectors? Direct injection makes some noise.


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

U.G. MKV said:


> Are you sure it's not the injectors? Direct injection makes some noise.


I listened with my stethascope and the noise semed loudest on the head. Next step for me will be checking the oil pressure. I don't have a reference because I normally do not work on these things and I bought this car with the engine not runing.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Oil pressure should be >1.2 BAR at idle and will rise as RPM goes up. Should not be >5.5 BAR at any point. It's not too fun getting an oil pressure gauge in there to check it. The BPY engines did have issues with exhaust lifters that would not pump up very quick. Caused misfires on the engines as well.

My advise to you is let the engine get to temp. and take it for a nice, easy drive. Don't go crazy on boost and just drive the car around. The oil pressure light begins to register a warning at around 2400 RPM, so if you do not have a light while cruising, then your oil pressure is likely good. When doing the repairs, did you replace the cam chain and tensioner? This is another weak point of the oiling system on this engine. If they did not use proper oil, ran with low oil, or did not change on time then there is a good chance this tensioner is weak and it will cause a good bit of clicking noise as well. LOUD when cold, and kind of faint once warmed up.

Dealing with these engines daily and owning mine for 190K miles and 6 years now. I've learned on them over the years. And one thing I would definitely do is get the Castrol out of there if you intend to keep the car long-term. The recent changes to the oil we are delivered at the dealer is crazy!!! It's not the same as it used to be and I can tell a huge difference in my cars. Have had excess oil consumption, lower MPG and quicker deterioration of the oil over last 6 months using Castrol(and I work at dealer)/ I recommend switching to Liqui Moly 5-40 or Motul oil.
J. Hines


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

jhines_06gli said:


> Oil pressure should be >1.2 BAR at idle and will rise as RPM goes up. Should not be >5.5 BAR at any point. It's not too fun getting an oil pressure gauge in there to check it. The BPY engines did have issues with exhaust lifters that would not pump up very quick. Caused misfires on the engines as well.
> 
> My advise to you is let the engine get to temp. and take it for a nice, easy drive. Don't go crazy on boost and just drive the car around. The oil pressure light begins to register a warning at around 2400 RPM, so if you do not have a light while cruising, then your oil pressure is likely good. When doing the repairs, did you replace the cam chain and tensioner? This is another weak point of the oiling system on this engine. If they did not use proper oil, ran with low oil, or did not change on time then there is a good chance this tensioner is weak and it will cause a good bit of clicking noise as well. LOUD when cold, and kind of faint once warmed up.
> 
> ...


Ok Tonight I had a little time and slapped on the Repair plate and took the Eos out for a 15 mile spin. The lifter noise never abated. The car drove fine though. The check engine light is on. once it runs for about a minute or tow there is a lope to the idle. For some reason my scanner does not communicate with this car. I found a blown fuse to the power outlet but that didn't make a difference. The transmission (DSG) worked great which is a relief. I'll change to oil again as soon as I can find some of the recommended oil. Maybe online is the best place?


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

Michael W Dane said:


> Ok Tonight I had a little time and slapped on the Repair plate and took the Eos out for a 15 mile spin. The lifter noise never abated. The car drove fine though. The check engine light is on. once it runs for about a minute or tow there is a lope to the idle. For some reason my scanner does not communicate with this car. I found a blown fuse to the power outlet but that didn't make a difference. The transmission (DSG) worked great which is a relief. I'll change to oil again as soon as I can find some of the recommended oil. Maybe online is the best place?


i run rotella T6 in my BPY. i guess it has a great additive package. people have had good UOA's with it(but also with others too) and its cheap at walmart.

i had an issue once with my VCDS cable not connecting. it turned out it was a fuse, kinda. the female part that hold the fuse wasnt getting a connection, i wiggled each fuse to find it. also my lights were always on, not matter if i had them switched to off.(i had disabled my daytime running lights) 

hope that helps. good to hear its running well. but kinda makes me worry i haven't been strict enough on maintenance.


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

*Carnage tonight*

I hooked up my oil pressure tester and started the engine. Oil pressure was 4 bar at idle cold. I was just waiting for the engine to warm up and watching the oil pressure when the engine made a nasty sound and stalled? The chain that connects the camshafts broke and bunched up around the exhaust cam scattering housing pieces on the floor. In this instance I'm glad it is my car and I'
m not fixing it for someone else. Is this what happens when the chain tensioner fails. Maybe that was the "lifter noise" I was hearing??


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

Michael W Dane said:


> I hooked up my oil pressure tester and started the engine. Oil pressure was 4 bar at idle cold. I was just waiting for the engine to warm up and watching the oil pressure when the engine made a nasty sound and stalled? The chain that connects the camshafts broke and bunched up around the exhaust cam scattering housing pieces on the floor. In this instance I'm glad it is my car and I'
> m not fixing it for someone else. Is this what happens when the chain tensioner fails. Maybe that was the "lifter noise" I was hearing??


Thankfully none of the valves are bent. The chain tensioner looks to have had a good supply of oil. I'm going to replace the lifters and timing chain along with the tensioner and have another go at it. I found a used housing on ebay.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Michael W Dane said:


> Thankfully none of the valves are bent. The chain tensioner looks to have had a good supply of oil. I'm going to replace the lifters and timing chain along with the tensioner and have another go at it. I found a used housing on ebay.


Yep.....that's what happens when the chain tensioner becomes weak. 98% of the time you bend at leats 2 exhaust valves, so if you bent nothing....you are one LUCKY man!!!


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## altxf4 (Apr 20, 2012)

Is there an easy way to check the chain/tensioner? I had the HPFP cam follower and intake cam done at 112K mi (per bulletin) and I am now at 122K mi. When I had the service done, I asked about the tensioner and chain. I was told they rarely fail. Hearing some of the stories here has me worried now... Not in a position for a catastrophic break down right now!


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

altxf4 said:


> Is there an easy way to check the chain/tensioner? I had the HPFP cam follower and intake cam done at 112K mi (per bulletin) and I am now at 122K mi. When I had the service done, I asked about the tensioner and chain. I was told they rarely fail. Hearing some of the stories here has me worried now... Not in a position for a catastrophic break down right now!


From what I observe and ascertain, part of the plastic shoe from the tensioner broke off and jammed between the chain and the sprocket causing the chain to snap and ensuing mayhem. 
I feel like I'm working blind on this engine but I bought the car cheap as a basket case so I'm not complaining and am thankful for the insight I've gained on this website.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Any update and resolution of your Eos project/repairs?


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

billymade said:


> Any update and resolution of your Eos project/repairs?


I got it back together it is running great, haven't had any trouble with the car whatsoever ever since. Loving it. Over 8k miles so for, knock on wood.


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## cameron2pt5 (Oct 19, 2006)

Well done! :thumbup:


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## english8 (Oct 10, 2009)

I have the same noise from my Bpy motor too . Sounds like the cam chain . but the still run 
But I get a warming light that come on and as STOP motor oil too low any info and advise 
And where to get the parts from


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## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

english8 said:


> I have the same noise from my Bpy motor too . Sounds like the cam chain . but the still run
> But I get a warming light that come on and as STOP motor oil too low any info and advise
> And where to get the parts from


 I got my tensioner from Hann Auto Parts and the chain on ebay.
Working on that motor is not for the feint of heart.


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## Boosted2003! (Mar 10, 2009)

From my experience working at VW dealership. Anytime we did a camshaft swap cause of the fuel cam lobe getting destroyed the time chain tensioner would fail. Not every time but it was about 1/2 the time and all different techs so it wasn't just one person screwing up the installs. At this point we came to a conclusion anytime working around that tensioner that required to compress it to remove it. It was safer to replace it . So my service manager would recommend anyone getting the camshaft replaced or any service work that required the tensioner to be removed he would sell them the part at cost so they would replace it. 

FYI: The lifters are like $5 bucks each so not to bad and tensioner is like $60 I recall.


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## Nevaeh_Speed (Jul 9, 2004)

Pics of said car. Great find, and glad to see you fixed the problems.


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