# Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (no mods)



## leesure44 (Jan 19, 2003)

Hummer 1 or 2, infinity QX56, Jeep(any), Range Rover, lexus lx470, Pathfinder, Land Cruiser, 4Runner or Volvo XC90?


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (leesure44)*

Touareg is better than:
Hummer 1 or 2, *No, yes*
Infinity QX56, *Yes*
Jeep(any), *Not rubicon, but stock Wrangler, GC*
Range Rover, *Tie*
Lexus lx470, *Yes*
Pathfinder, *Yes*
Land Cruiser, *Yes*
4Runner, *Yes*
Volvo XC90 *Yes*
Touareg wins mostly for one thing: locking center diff, not open center.
Other winning factors are: great approach and departure angles, generally adequately underbody clearance, hill decent assist, tiptronic gear selection, triple sealed doors (fording), locking rear differential option, air suspension option. All standard factory options.
Me, in my bone stock Touareg:








Of course, that picture clearly illustrates the Touareg's one major weakness: wheel articulation.


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## wrh3 (Mar 18, 2004)

I went and test drove the new Toyota FJ Cruiser, I wonder how it stacks up against the Touareg off road.....
http://www.toyota.com/fj/?url=img_button










_Modified by wrh3 at 11:02 AM 3-28-2006_


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_Touareg is better than:
Hummer 1 or 2, *No, yes*
Infinity QX56, *Yes*
Jeep(any), *Not rubicon, but stock Wrangler, GC*
Range Rover, *Tie*
Lexus lx470, *Yes*
Pathfinder, *Yes*
Land Cruiser, *Yes*
4Runner, *Yes*
Volvo XC90 *Yes*
Touareg wins mostly for one thing: locking center diff, not open center.
Other winning factors are: great approach and departure angles, generally adequately underbody clearance, hill decent assist, tiptronic gear selection, triple sealed doors (fording), locking rear differential option, air suspension option. All standard factory options.
Me, in my bone stock Touareg:








Of course, that picture clearly illustrates the Touareg's one major weakness: wheel articulation.


What he said!!!


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_Touareg is better than:
Hummer 1 or 2, *No, yes*
Infinity QX56, *Yes*
Jeep(any), *Not rubicon, but stock Wrangler, GC*
Range Rover, *Tie*
Lexus lx470, *Yes*
Pathfinder, *Yes*
Land Cruiser, *Yes*
4Runner, *Yes*
Volvo XC90 *Yes*


Having just sold my 12 year old Land Cruiser after 155,000 trouble free miles, I would have to disagree with you. My 94 Land Cruiser was a much better off road vehicle than my Treg and I would take it over my Treg in anything but highway riding.


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (Archimedes)*

First, I was referring more to current production vehicles, not a 94 model. Second, did your LC have an open center diff or a locking one?


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## wrh3 (Mar 18, 2004)

I would have to second the '94 Land Cruiser being better, mine did have the optional front/rear lockers, they come standard with center differential lock.
In the Treg's defense, I would have to say it is more fun to drive








Sure wish Moab was closer........great pics Aircooled.


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_First, I was referring more to current production vehicles, not a 94 model. Second, did your LC have an open center diff or a locking one?

No I had the open diff, which makes my point even more. While I never took it rock jumping in Moab, I did take it in some very knarly places offroad, in sand, mud, and through some all sorts of winter conditions. It was awesome everywhere. So far my Treg hasn't even handled 6 inches of snow well, getting stuck twice.
The biggest diff for me is that the firm suspension in the LC makes you feel so much more connected to the road than the Tregs. The Treg floats and I just don't have any confidence that I really know what the wheels/tires are doing. In the LC, you know, all the time.
Regarding the new LC, if you look closely, they're basically the same vehicle as the 94 FJ80, just a bit prettier and with a better motor. I rode in one this weekend and it was fantastic. Money no object, I would take one over a Treg any day of the week.
All that said, the motor in the Treg is better and the Treg has a nicer ride for sure.


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## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot?*

The H3 and FJ beat the pants off any Touareg, and so does a stock Wrangler. You're deluding yourself if you think a Touareg can keep up with a Wrangler. The power-to-weight ratio (and the articulation) are two serious drawbacks of the Touareg, which can only partially be compensated for by its traction control and superior ground clearance.
As far as SUVs go, the egg will win in some circumstances over a GX, and lose in others.
The other SUVs will not keep up. Range Rover? Give me a break. I'll take on a Range Rover over rocks any day.


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## frissen2000 (Oct 1, 2002)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (leesure44)*

We performed atets to find out...








as far as power and off road capabilities the Treg is not near the H2, nonetheless the huge proportions of the H2 slowed it down in narrow trails...
we also had a Cayenne S in hand and the Treg perfoemd better off road, unfortunately the Pepper has what some call the infamous "lurching" and it is dissapointing... the Treg was better off road by a bunch...
















as an overall car the Treg won because it performed each task asjed with flying honors, it did very well on the off road, tremendously well on road and carried the most satisfying power band and interior.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (frissen2000)*










That picture gets me every time I see it!!!


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## charlier (Mar 9, 2001)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_Touareg is better than:
4Runner, *Yes*
Touareg wins mostly for one thing: locking center diff, not open center.
Other winning factors are: great approach and departure angles, generally adequately underbody clearance, hill decent assist, tiptronic gear selection, triple sealed doors (fording), locking rear differential option, air suspension option. All standard factory options.

With all due respect some might consider the Toyota 4Runner as the Touareg's equal based on your criteria. 
The 4Runner has a limited-slip center diff with a Locking Feature. The approach and departure angles are 30/26 for the 4Runner and 28/28 for the Touareg. The 4Runner ground clearence is 9.1 inches versus the Touareg's 8.3 inches when equipped with the steel suspension. The 4Runner has Downhill Assist Control and Hill Start Assist Control (both standard). Air suspension is optional on the 4Runner. The engine, fuel tank and transfer case have skid plates. Turning Circle is 37.4 ft (4Runner) vs 38.1 ft (Touareg). All other exterior and interior dimensions are nearly identical. At 4505 lbs curb weight the 4Runner is 581 lbs Lighter than the Touareg's 5086 lbs.


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## Tahoe12 (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (charlier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *charlier* »_
With all due respect some might consider the Toyota 4Runner as the Touareg's equal based on your criteria. 
The 4Runner has a limited-slip center diff with a Locking Feature. The approach and departure angles are 30/26 for the 4Runner and 28/28 for the Touareg. The 4Runner ground clearence is 9.1 inches versus the Touareg's 8.3 inches when equipped with the steel suspension. The 4Runner has Downhill Assist Control and Hill Start Assist Control (both standard). Air suspension is optional on the 4Runner. The engine, fuel tank and transfer case have skid plates. Turning Circle is 37.4 ft (4Runner) vs 38.1 ft (Touareg). All other exterior and interior dimensions are nearly identical. At 4505 lbs curb weight the 4Runner is 581 lbs Lighter than the Touareg's 5086 lbs.

I agree. But the 4-Runner is a piece of crap to drive. I had one. The thing felt very unstable on the highway, rattled like crazy with the plastic interior and felt cramped inside. The exhaust manifold rusted and came loose at 50k and they wanted $1800 to take the engine out and fix the problem. It was a decent off-road performer, but the Touareg feels much more powerful and well made.


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## wrh3 (Mar 18, 2004)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (Tahoe12)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tahoe12* »_
I agree. But the 4-Runner is a piece of crap to drive. I had one. The thing felt very unstable on the highway, rattled like crazy with the plastic interior and felt cramped inside. The exhaust manifold rusted and came loose at 50k and they wanted $1800 to take the engine out and fix the problem. It was a decent off-road performer, but the Touareg feels much more powerful and well made. 

I took a new FJ Cruiser for a test drive (essentially a 4Runner with a different body) and it felt tight, no rattles but too new to see some of the problems that come with aging. If we didn't have a Touareg I believe this is what we would have, only problems immediately identifiable were blind spots, less rear legroom, and the dealer markups over MSRP related to demand.


_Modified by wrh3 at 10:25 AM 3-30-2006_


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## vwbunny (Mar 11, 2004)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (leesure44)*

I dont think a touareg is the best performing off-road vehicle by a long shot. I tend to think Jeep holds that one. Just my opinion. It most likely can keep up with an H2 (glorified suburban). Here is our XJ (cherokee). Stock im sure that the touareg can keep up with a stock jeep. (except the wrangler) You cant beat a solid axle for articulation.











_Modified by vwbunny at 5:26 PM 3-30-2006_


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## leebo (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (wrh3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wrh3* »_I took a new FJ Cruiser for a test drive (essentially a 4Runner with a different body) and it felt tight...

A thread I posted about the FJ was moved to The Car Lounge:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2528688
Some interesting off-road videos...


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## Rastahmann (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_
Of course, that picture clearly illustrates the Touareg's one major weakness: wheel articulation.

You almost make it sound like the Touareg's lack articulation is a minor thing. I know it's fun to see wheels hanging in the air in pictures, but a vehicle with a suspension like the Touareg's is a liability when you get into really bumpy, rocky, terrain. The more tires you can keep on the ground the better off you are. 
The other problem with the Touareg is the limited tire size you can run. Most every other vehicle mentioned earlier in this post (except the Volvo, Lexus, Infinity) have wheel wells that allow you to go with a larger tire more suited for offroad use. The Touareg is severely limited in this area.
I think 'best off-road' is a pretty broad range. When you start comparing against Jeeps, Range Rovers, even Pathfinders and 4Runners you need to be careful.
Using the trail rating system we use in Moab, I'd say a Touareg could handle a 3 rated trail in most cases, and if you didn't worry about body damage you could do some 4 rated trails taking the bypasses. (Porsche did testing with the Cayennes on Hell's Revenge - a 4 rated trail).
If you're not sure what I mean by the ratings, click the link below.
http://www.rr4w.com/trails.html
The other part of the equation is the driver. A skilled driver who is good at tire placement and working their way around obstacles makes a huge difference.


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## leebo (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (vwbunny)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwbunny* »_I dont think a touareg is the best performing off-road vehicle by a long shot. I tend to think Jeep holds that one. Just my opinion. It most likely can keep up with an H2 (glorified suburban). Here is our XJ (cherokee). Stock im sure that the touareg can keep up with a stock jeep. (except the wrangler) You cant beat a solid axle for articulation.









Touareg with the center & rear lockers does pretty well in limited off-road circumstances, but it's a big vehicle and suffers from that and the lack real off-road tires.


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## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (leesure44)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leesure44* »_Hummer 1 or 2, infinity QX56, Jeep(any), Range Rover, lexus lx470, Pathfinder, Land Cruiser, 4Runner or Volvo XC90?


VW cautioned that my (no mods) 
Touareg not be used off-road








It came with 19 inch wheels http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 



_Modified by Richard1 at 11:43 PM 3-30-2006_


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## RvDUB (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (vwbunny)*

*I UNDERSTAND THE JEEP THING, THAT IS WHY I OWN A VW










































* BEEN THERE DONE THAT, WON'T GO BACK !!!!!!!


_Modified by RvDUB at 5:04 PM 3-30-2006_


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (charlier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *charlier* »_The 4Runner has a limited-slip center diff with a Locking Feature. The approach and departure angles are 30/26 for the 4Runner and 28/28 for the Touareg. The 4Runner ground clearence is 9.1 inches versus the Touareg's 8.3 inches when equipped with the steel suspension. The 4Runner has Downhill Assist Control and Hill Start Assist Control (both standard). Air suspension is optional on the 4Runner. The engine, fuel tank and transfer case have skid plates. Turning Circle is 37.4 ft (4Runner) vs 38.1 ft (Touareg). All other exterior and interior dimensions are nearly identical. At 4505 lbs curb weight the 4Runner is 581 lbs Lighter than the Touareg's 5086 lbs.

- OK, didn't know the new 4Runner has locking center diff.
- A two degree difference in departure angle in not that severe a difference to separate the two.
-Touareg is HDC/HCA standard as well.
- 4Runner may have 9.1 stock, but from what I have seen the Toyota air suspension is a rear based system only. I couldn't find any specs on what it could increase rear height to, if any. For Touareg, once optional (but factory) air suspension is added, Touareg climbs to 11.7 in. Taller tires (a mod, I know) can push you to over 12.
- Touareg is 113 in wheel base. If the turning radius only increases by a 1/2 foot difference over a vehicle that is three inches shorter (109.8), I'll take that.
- Skid plates are a point of contention. You don't NEED them, but you really should have them. This is a weak point of the Touareg, especially since no factory options are offered for skid plates in the US.
- I can't argue weight, but I suspect that an optioned 4Runner V8 with rear air suspension weighs more than their site says. Still, the Touareg is fat. I won't deny that.


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (Rastahmann)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rastahmann* »_You almost make it sound like the Touareg's lack articulation is a minor thing. I know it's fun to see wheels hanging in the air in pictures, but a vehicle with a suspension like the Touareg's is a liability when you get into really bumpy, rocky, terrain. The more tires you can keep on the ground the better off you are.

Actually, I didn't make it out this way at all. I am fully aware of this short coming, every time I teeter-totter over an obstacle. However, more and more new vehicles are moving to an independent suspension of some sort. Some are four wheel independent, some are front wheel independent with a live rear axle, like the 4 Runner, and I believe the new Rovers.

_Quote, originally posted by *Rastahmann* »_The other problem with the Touareg is the limited tire size you can run. Most every other vehicle mentioned earlier in this post (except the Volvo, Lexus, Infinity) have wheel wells that allow you to go with a larger tire more suited for offroad use. The Touareg is severely limited in this area.

Your point is well taken. There have been better options that have cropped up on the last year or so if you want to go to a larger and better tire. This includes the 265/70/17 BFG All Terrain T/A which is not a slouch offroad. I'll likely replace my REVOs with the BFG AT TAs after they are worn out.
_However_, the original poster wanted to know the best *WITHOUT mods*, so I was trying to stay true to that request.
If we take into account vehicles that can be heavily modified for a dedicated or near dedicated offroad purpose, the Touareg will LOOSE.


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## Ross08TouaregV8 (Dec 14, 2005)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (aircooled)*

ill let you guys know how good the range rover is.... i made arrangements to borrow my pop's '06 range to go off roading on a pretty difficult course tomorrow afternoon.
then i gotta take my car out another time. its too new i dont feel like screwing it up yet. the range has almost 20k in 6 months so who cares, right? i think he has a 24 month lease










_Modified by Ross06TouaregV8 at 9:50 PM 3-30-2006_


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (Ross06TouaregV8)*

*Yeah, yeah, yeah... but can this...*








*DO THAT!!!!!*


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## Ross08TouaregV8 (Dec 14, 2005)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_*Yeah, yeah, yeah... but can this...*








*DO THAT!!!!!*









not with them rubbaz!








thread drift: anyone wanna sell me a lifted wrangler dirt cheap? running but rough, rotted, dont care. ~2grand. i wanna run it into the ground and fix it up and do it all over again.


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## pfb (Nov 28, 2005)

What's best "off-road"?
High speed fireroads / light jeep trails? I'll take the T-reg.
Rock crawling? Definitely something with a solid axle like a Wrangler.
Desert Running or river fording? H1 all the way.
Third-world touring? Land Cruiser
Navigating largish speed bumps at the mall? XC90
Beer cans after the football game? QX



_Modified by pfb at 8:03 PM 3-30-2006_


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## charlier (Mar 9, 2001)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_
- A two degree difference in departure angle in not that severe a difference to separate the two.

Agreed it is not that severe a difference, kinda my point about the whole 4Runner/Touareg comparison. 

_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_
- 4Runner may have 9.1 stock, but from what I have seen the Toyota air suspension is a rear based system only. I couldn't find any specs on what it could increase rear height to, if any. For Touareg, once optional (but factory) air suspension is added, Touareg climbs to 11.7 in. Taller tires (a mod, I know) can push you to over 12.
 
I don't have much info on the 4Runner air suspension system. My 4Runner does not have it. The Touareg clearance with the air suspension does seem nice. Personally I don't know I would spend the money for the extra 2.6 in. the Touareg air suspension gets you over the 4Runner's 9.1 in. non-air suspension. The air suspension could get even more costly when it has to be repaired out of warranty.

_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_- Touareg is 113 in wheel base. If the turning radius only increases by a 1/2 foot difference over a vehicle that is three inches shorter (109.8), I'll take that.

True, with the longer wheel base the extra 1/2 foot difference is not a big deal.

_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_
- Skid plates are a point of contention. You don't NEED them, but you really should have them. This is a weak point of the Touareg, especially since no factory options are offered for skid plates in the US.

The lack of skid plates on the Touareg is a weak point, no doubt about it.
It could also get expensive if the Touareg gets damaged due to lack of the skid plates.

_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_
- I can't argue weight, but I suspect that an optioned 4Runner V8 with rear air suspension weighs more than their site says. Still, the Touareg is fat. I won't deny that.

True, an optioned 4Runner may weigh more. Do any of the Touareg options (ie air suspension, etc) add even more weight to the Touareg?
BTW, for the record my V8 4Runner is VERY stable on the road and does not have squeaks or rattles. It also has PLENTY of power to pull my enclosed car trailer up mountains without breaking a sweat.


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## RvDUB (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (charlier)*

I owned a 2003 4Runner v6, that is all they had then, with a mechanical center locking diff. That was sold for the 2004 Treg. I have taken the Treg over the same Colorado Mountain pass's that I took my 4Runner. BOth made it over all of them with no major issues.
What I found is both trucks did great off road but the mechanical center locking diff on the 4Runner is better then the Treg's electronic locking Diff. I felt the 4Runner had a more solid feel on loose rock. The other 2 advantage the 4Runner had is the weight and wheel travel.. A lot less weight to drag over the pass made the 4Runner feel more nimble then the Treg. And of course wheel travel helps keep all 4 wheels planted firmly on the gound. 
In conclusion the 4Runner "feels" better off road. But the Treg can hang with the best of them and has proven that to me. Plus looking at the face of the Jeep owners is pricelsee!
With all that said I am still ecstatic that I have a Treg! And would not go back to a 4Runner for anything! There are plenty of boring vehicals on this planet and I am glad I do not own one!


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## cruisinforabruisin (May 4, 2005)

My off road experiance has taken place in a 200 jeep wrangler 4in lift with 33in super swampers, a 2001 dodge cumins pickup, 95 chevy puckup, 2002 ford expedition, and my v10 treg.
The jeep may have more clearance, but the treg has alot more grunt and traction, Also without a locked diff i have been stuck way to many times with my various pickups. the trucks do not ride nearly as well off road, the dodge is the worst riding car ever, but the best handeling truck i have ever driven. the jeep is a chore to keep on the road, its not fun unless you are really in some thick **** off road.
for light duty wheeling the touareg is amazing, with air suspension, lockign diff and more torque then i can shake a stick at, it amazes me, also with such a great approach angle its hard to get stuck, I just get scared driving in the middle of nowhere in a 60K truck.
But compared to all the other 4wd cars ive driven the touareg is the best on and off road, especialy in the snow with traction control is the best ive ever driven, and gives amazing grip in the worst conditions.


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## Ross08TouaregV8 (Dec 14, 2005)

*Re: (cruisinforabruisin)*

so i took the range rover off road tonight. impressive. its IMPERITVE to lock the air suspension in the jacking/high mode otherwise you'll ground out your running boards over bumps. I didnt, but i saw how close it would have been had i not. I went through probably 20in of water like nothing, and it rides really smooth. another plus of the range rover is the off road navigation (maps out where you've been so you can find your way out). I would never have been able to find my way out (especially since it was almost dark!) without it!
I forgot my digital camera, but I'll borrow the truck again soon and snap some shots. 
So, my conclusion is that the range isnt better than a lifted Wrangler, but its amazing. Its way more comfortable than a wrangler, of course. Once i get the intestinal fortitude to take my brand new BLACK touareg off the road, then i hope i'll see first hand that the range rover will have something to reckon with.


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## Rastahmann (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_
There have been better options that have cropped up on the last year or so if you want to go to a larger and better tire. This includes the 265/70/17 BFG All Terrain T/A which is not a slouch offroad. I'll likely replace my REVOs with the BFG AT TAs after they are worn out.


I used a set of the BFGs as snow tires this winter and they were great! Not too noisy, and they kicked butt in the snow. They will be great for some offroad adventures this summer.


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## raythompson (Dec 30, 2004)

I've owned Land Cruisers, Jeep Wranglers, and a Mercedes G500. The G500 is, hands down, the most impressive off-road vehicle I've EVER driven. On trails where you had to floor it with the Jeep to make it up muddy hills, the G500 simply crawls up and over. Three locking diffs: front, rear, and center. The real Hummer (H1) might beat it, but I think the G500 would be close...
Of course, after I moved out of the country -- where I had lots of places to play and where the road flooded about 5 times each winter -- I no longer appreciated the less-than-stellar ride quality of the G500. 
Though I miss it at times, I can't wait to get my new Touareg TDI...


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## Tahoe12 (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: (raythompson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *raythompson* »_I've owned Land Cruisers, Jeep Wranglers, and a Mercedes G500. The G500 is, hands down, the most impressive off-road vehicle I've EVER driven. On trails where you had to floor it with the Jeep to make it up muddy hills, the G500 simply crawls up and over. Three locking diffs: front, rear, and center. The real Hummer (H1) might beat it, but I think the G500 would be close...
Of course, after I moved out of the country -- where I had lots of places to play and where the road flooded about 5 times each winter -- I no longer appreciated the less-than-stellar ride quality of the G500. 
Though I miss it at times, I can't wait to get my new Touareg TDI...

What kind of fuel economy on avg. did you get in that box of a car?


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## raythompson (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (Tahoe12)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tahoe12* »_What kind of fuel economy on avg. did you get in that box of a car?

A very consistent 14-15 mpg. That was a great truck, but I think the Touareg TDI I have on order will be the best combination of the qualities I'm looking for. Roomy, comfy, reasonable handling, good offroad, quiet, and good range -- all in a great looking package...


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## Thai (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (aircooled)*

TLC/LX470 is probably better than what you wrote. With all real Toyota SUVs (TLC, LX, GX, 4runners), you have a lockable center differential. 
With LX470, you have the 4-wheel adjustable suspension, just like Touareg. In addition, it has a few other things the Toareg lacks:
- Body-on-frame design...a robust design at that. We all know that BOF design is superior to unibody in off-roading. On-road, unibody is better. 
- Solid rear axle...plus a relatively flexible front end, resulting in the best "IFS-equipped" Ramp Travel Index of ANY SUV, according to FourWheeler magazine.
- Bigger tires...well, you know that already. 
- Ultra-reliable...remember, _getting home_ from the off-roading site is just as important as getting there.
- Proven worldwide and heritage.
How would you rate the LR3?? It has center and rear diff locks. Air suspension. In addition, it has a body-on-frame design. 
Ground clearance. Remember, although you may have 11.7 inches of clearance, this ONLY applies to the middle of your Touareg. Your control arms hang down lower. And at this height, you have zero wheel travel. In addition, ground clearance (distance between diff and ground) varies with terrain with independent suspensions...so, 11.7" is NOT constant.
Except for size, i doubt that a Touareg can hang with Hummer H2. I don't see where Touareg has an advantage over H2 except for size. To be honest (and i personally don't like H2's), there are very few SUVs out there that can match H2 and H3's out-of-the-box off-road capability. Touareg is not one of them IMHO. It will kill the crap out of any Hummer on-road for sure though.
Wrangler vs. Touareg...i would like to have what you're smoking!







Even with open diffs, Wrangler will out run a Touareg over most terrain. 
Skidplates. It's a REQUIREMENT in my book. NEED IT. If someone feels that he/she will do fine in off-roading without skidplate, then he/she has NOT off-roaded! I still cannot believe that VW does not offer skidplates on Touareg.
Triptronic gear selection...remind me, what is so special about it?? Doesn't most SUVs mentioned have this feature?! And what's the big deal?? 
Not to be a critic towards your answers, aircooled, but i just want to give a more complete fair perspective.
Thai.


_Modified by Thai at 4:56 AM 4-30-2006_


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## dub*man (Aug 7, 2005)

cant you get drivers gear skid plates?


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## xinchenc (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (Thai)*

_With LX470, you have the 4-wheel adjustable suspension, just like Touareg. In addition, it has a few other things the Toareg lacks:
- Body-on-frame design...a robust design at that. We all know that BOF design is superior to unibody in off-roading. On-road, unibody is better. _
Really?I do not know, maybe you know "BOF design is superior to unibody in off-roading. On-road, unibody is better. "








Many people say LX470 or LR3 or Wrangler is better than Touareg, Please tell me somewhere where LX470 or LR3 or Wrangler can pass through while Touareg cannot.










_Modified by xinchenc at 6:15 AM 4-30-2006_


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## Thai (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (xinchenc)*

"Many people" can't be all wrong, right??


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## xinchenc (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (Thai)*

Just like "many people" know abacus is more reliable than computer








One person is just one person who may not stand for "many people"










_Modified by xinchenc at 9:28 AM 4-30-2006_


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## henna gaijin (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: (dub*man)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dub*man* »_cant you get drivers gear skid plates?

The "skid plates" available from VW DriverGear are plastic cosmetic trim pieces - would provide very little, if any, protection.
Further drawbacks of the front VW "skid plate:"
Covers up the Parking Assist sensors.
They cover up the mounting points for the Tow Eyes - very bad juju for real offroad use.
Overall a very badly thought out (and expensive) part from VW.


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## tbroadbent (Jan 4, 2005)

Well, we are talking stock vehicles....
They all suck at offroading because they cost too much and we don't want to scratch them. That is why we tow a $5000 Jeep wrangler and put $4,000 in offroad upgrades to the really bad trails. 
To answer the question (my opinion) - Best Stock offroad car of those given.....H3 not better.....LR3 don't know but probably about the same.....Volvo not better....Lexus not better.....Toyota same or possible better....
In general the Touareg has only been out for a few years and it will depend on the direction VW takes this car....better offroad options....or better on road options.....
But for us touareg owners I think it comes down to the fact that we really do get the best of both worlds.


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## Thai (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: (tbroadbent)*

How is the Touareg better than H3 in off-roading??


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## TORSEN TRACTION (Mar 27, 2002)

very interesting comparison. The H1 got really watered down over the years, it used to be awsome.
I would really like to take a Touareg off roading, hell even drive one. They are so cool


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## Thai (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: (TORSEN TRACTION)*

When did H1 get watered down?? How so??


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## Tahoe12 (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: (Thai)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Thai* »_When did H1 get watered down?? How so??

Aside from the new engine options, they haven't chagned much since they were first offered to the public in 92'. 
6.2 L Detroit Diesel V8/GM TH400/3L80 3-speed
6.5 L Detroit Diesel V8/GM 4L80-E 4-speed
5.7 L Vortec 5700 gasoline V8 TBI/GM 4L80-E 4-speed
6.5 L turbo Detroit Diesel V8/GM 4L80-E 4-speed
6.6 L Duramax LLY turbo Diesel/Allison 1000 5-speed (model year 2006)
6.6 L Duramax LBZ turbo Diesel/Allison 1000 6-speed (model year 2007 or 2008)


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## Thai (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: (Tahoe12)*

Yeah...that's my point. H1 has NOT watered down. I am not sure what the previous poster meant.








If anything, H1 got _better_ as the years went. Lockers front and rear are now available along with improved powertrain. I would love to own an '06 H1 Alpha. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Thai at 8:24 PM 5-1-2006_


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## dub*man (Aug 7, 2005)

but dont the treg's v10 have more power than the h1's


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## r32ryder (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (leesure44)*

Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon is better, so is the Mercedes Galendawagen.


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## r32ryder (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (Rastahmann)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rastahmann* »_You almost make it sound like the Touareg's lack articulation is a minor thing. I know it's fun to see wheels hanging in the air in pictures, but a vehicle with a suspension like the Touareg's is a liability when you get into really bumpy, rocky, terrain. The more tires you can keep on the ground the better off you are. 
The other problem with the Touareg is the limited tire size you can run. Most every other vehicle mentioned earlier in this post (except the Volvo, Lexus, Infinity) have wheel wells that allow you to go with a larger tire more suited for offroad use. The Touareg is severely limited in this area.
I think 'best off-road' is a pretty broad range. When you start comparing against Jeeps, Range Rovers, even Pathfinders and 4Runners you need to be careful.
Using the trail rating system we use in Moab, I'd say a Touareg could handle a 3 rated trail in most cases, and if you didn't worry about body damage you could do some 4 rated trails taking the bypasses. (Porsche did testing with the Cayennes on Hell's Revenge - a 4 rated trail).
If you're not sure what I mean by the ratings, click the link below.
http://www.rr4w.com/trails.html
The other part of the equation is the driver. A skilled driver who is good at tire placement and working their way around obstacles makes a huge difference.

When I said that I was considering buying a Touareg, my friends that go four wheeling said something along the lines of, real 4 wheelers are built not bought. They also mentioned that because of the independent suspension front and rear, that it would be hard, if not impossible, or extremely expensive to lift a Touareg. They drive a variety of vehicles ranging from old 4runners, Jeeps, and one of them has a land Rover Defender 90. From what I've seen, though, the Jeeps have been able to go through more stuff than the other vehicles, although the old Toyotas were pretty good too. I heard that there will be a new 4 door Jeep Wrangler coming out with a rubicon edition, maybe I'll wait for that. I was originally considering a 05 Touareg CDI. Hopefully the Jeep will be cheaper than the VW. Maybe I could lift my GTI?


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (r32ryder)*

The entire discussion is pointless. The Touareg was designed to be competant off road. Of course there will be better vehicles off road than the Touareg. But which of those can also handle Autobahn driving too? 
There isn't one person on this forum who bought the Touareg strictly for off road use. If there is, they have more money than brains. 

_Quote, originally posted by *r32ryder* »_ I was originally considering a 05 Touareg CDI. 

By the way, what is an 05 Touareg CDI? Is this a combination Mercedes/Volkswagen?


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## Thai (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: (dub*man)*

Power isn't everything in off-roading.


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## Tahoe12 (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_The entire discussion is pointless. The Touareg was designed to be competant off road. Of course there will be better vehicles off road than the Touareg. But which of those can also handle Autobahn driving too? 
There isn't one person on this forum who bought the Touareg strictly for off road use. If there is, they have more money than brains. 
By the way, what is an 05 Touareg CDI? Is this a combination Mercedes/Volkswagen?

Yeah That http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Flymia (Sep 3, 2006)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (Tahoe12)*

The point of the Touareg is to have the best of both worlds. There are not many stock SUVs better than the Touareg off road, H2 maybe, Jeep Warngler and a few others. But none of these trucks can go 0-60 in 7.3s and cruise at 120mph like if it was 70mph. The Touareg is great because you can go off road if you want or you can enjoy good on road performance. 
It is the perfect SUV. I much rather have my good off roading ability and my good on road ability than be able to just go off road and have nothing when I am on the road. I have a friend who drives a Wrangler and yea he does better than me off the road with some better clearances and being smaller. But driving home on the highway I always lose him when I am crusing at a slow speed of 80mph which is just about his top speed, he is scared to take his Wrangler any faster than that.


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## supertouareg (Jul 14, 2006)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (Flymia)*

range rover is better than the touareg.


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## quattroTDI (Jan 3, 2005)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (supertouareg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *supertouareg* »_range rover is better than the touareg. 

I’ll second that, the Discovery R3 would outperform the REG in rough terrain.


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (quattroTDI)*

Please explain to us why.


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## Phagus (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Is the Touareg the best performing off-road vehicle of the lot? (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_ *The entire discussion is pointless. ... *

no better way of describing this tread.


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