# Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on....



## Muleskinner (Aug 9, 2001)

Well, after choosing between a Toyota Camry and VW Passat wagon, I went with the 2002 Passat wagon. It was fun for about a year.
Then, last month as I rushed out of the house on the way to the airport, the check engine light came on and the engine starting running erratically. Luckily, I was 1 block from home, so I went back, called a taxi and just barely made my flight.
It turned out to be an bad ignition coil - one of four. The dealer told me it was a "bad batch" and replaced it under warranty. I asked about the remaining 4 coils - "no problem" they said. They'll be fine.
Yesterday I had about 10 business appointments scheduled. Another coil went out when I started the car. Luckily this time I was 1 block from a dealer! I pulled in and waited for an hour as they called a rental car. This is where the fun begins. 
They refuse to replace the remaining 2 coils! So now I'm driving a time bomb that will break down 2 more times in the next few months. The dealer referred me to National VW, national VW told me they will not replace the coils *UNTIL THEY FAIL*. Meaning that I will take the chance of being stranded in Northern New Hampshire or Maine, blowing the coil going 80 on the highway, etc, etc.
I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING! None of the used or new cars I've ever had have broken down more than once, so this is already the biggest lemon I've ever owned (out of 5 cars) - and it's only got 16,000 miles! The only thing that even comes close is the Fiat my dad owned back in the 70's.
My previous car was a Toyota that never broke down once. I may sell the Passat after Christmas when I have time. These cars are junk! Fun to drive, but junk just the same.


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## yrwei52 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

Yeah, VWoA is famous on “customer care” since ‘80s. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif I don’t know why they can’t learn anything from their history – from late ‘80s to early ‘90s. I had very bad experience with VWoA on my ’87 Vanagon with head gasket problem. They simply refused to fix it for me just because my dealer lied to me about the problem at the first place. I stayed away from VW for a while then came back to get a Passat. But apparently their attitude toward the faithful VW customers is still the same. Too bad.


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## RL331 (Oct 29, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

I know the coil packs are under warranty for you. But let me ask, because I'm not good at working on my own car, can the coilpacks be easily replaced like by even me??? I think they are about $60 each and if they are easy enough to pull out and put on your own, it may very well be worth it instead of wasting the time at the dealer. Can anyone shed light on replacing them on your own?


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## AlphaPepper (Dec 27, 1999)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

Muleskinner, 
I feel your pain








..Alpha


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## A3VWGOLF (Jun 29, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

Just because only the coil-packs are bad makes the entire car and its company crap?


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## SAEDave (Jun 16, 2000)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (A3VWGOLF)*

The complaint is not about the coil packs; it is about a very bad policy, probably necessitated by a parts shortage and not explained properly by the dealer or VWOA. This kind of treatment is part of the reason for the recent report of 15% reduction in U.S. sales for VW. 
Word of mouth is the most powerful advertising, either positive or negative. I do not recommend VW or Audi to friends who can not afford the probable expense and annoyance. The driving experience is great, but not the ownership. If I had significant budget or time constraints I would not be driving a W8.


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## jcopley (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

Unfortunately every car company makes a product that should probably be recalled, as is the case with the coils that everyone is having problems with. But I would love for you to show me a car company that hasn't had a problem with a production line of cars...


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## jcopley (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (SAEDave)*

It sounds as though you don't have significant budget constraints (also seeing that you can afford a W8). That said, why did you buy a W8 in the first place if you wouldn't recommend it to you friends? If I could afford 40K for a car, you're much more likely to see me driving a Mercedes or the like


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## ywang98 (Jul 11, 2000)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (jcopley)*

I don't recommend VW's products to friends either, but I am a glutton for punishment. So I have been buying VW products.
A friend of mine was in the market for a car. He asked me how was the Passat. I told him that if he doesn't mind the occasional problems, then go for the Passat. I told him that if he wanted a boring car but with superb reliability, then go for the Camery. He ended up with a Passat and he loves it, but I hope that he doesn't hate me later.


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## pipes (Apr 7, 2000)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (ywang98)*

I've had so far on the positive side success with dubs...I've had CELs before.
You can change the coil packs relatively easy (hex nut), but the CEL will take some time to clear.
I am curious, would anyone buy a Ford Focus now knowing there has been 12 recalls on it? You know the probability of more recalls occurring are still there, just like MS issuing a service pak or something.
I do understand the frustration, but to call a company horrible is over the limit when parts on are on short supply IMO. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
I guess VW should have tested the new coil paks better to avoid this fiasco.


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## simosdmd (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

Be persistent. If you have the original "H" coils it is likely that these will fail. You need the revised "J" coils. all four of mine failed, i don't recommend it.


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## DrewD (Mar 4, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

Look, some subcontractor who manfactures ingition coils for VW simply made a bad batch. That's all. Audi has the same problem in the newer A4's (probably the same supplier). If _every_ VW dealer replaced _every_ coil once _one_ blows, there would not be enough spare coils to go around! What would happen if your dealer had _none_ in inventory? At least you got your car fixed free of charge.
Is it a problem? Yes.
Does it suck? Yes.
Does it mean that VW is a HORRIBLE company? No


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

Enlist the assistance of your Sales Rep...Your advocate at the Dealership...


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## jeffp25 (Jun 25, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (DrewD)*

Everything you've said is true. BUT, If VW cared about its customers, it would say "we will replace your other coils free of charge, but give us some sime because they are in short supply."
I had a Ford Contour V6 Sport just before the VW. It was a lot of fun, but I gave up on it after 4 years because:
1. It was terribly unreliable,
2. It had continual recalls, with poor coverage.
The last straw was when the ignition wiring harness failed, taking out the alternator and a bunch of other things. When I mentioned that it should be under the warranty because there was a recall for faulty wiring harnesses, they said that this particular harness wasn't in the recall (yet), so I wasn't covered. I traded the car in as soon as it was fixed - for the Passat.
Jeff


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## sccaITA16V (Nov 5, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (jcopley)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Unfortunately every car company makes a product that should probably be recalled, as is the case with the coils that everyone is having problems with. But I would love for you to show me a car company that hasn't had a problem with a production line of cars...[HR][/HR]​show me the love...
hey deep down we all purchased VWs for the same reason, cause we are not sheep! if we have to put up with coil pack problems, hey stuff happens. But look on the bright side, at least our cars are not being recalled for "catching on fire" (ahem, honda accord) or recently, steering columns disengaging from the racks (ahem, GM) Lets not loose focus, please!


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## BBSturbo (Dec 4, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (sccaITA16V)*

They refuse to replace the remaining 2 coils! So now I'm driving a time bomb that will break down 2 more times in the next few months. The dealer referred me to National VW, national VW told me they will not replace the coils *UNTIL THEY FAIL*. Meaning that I will take the chance of being stranded in Northern New Hampshire or Maine, blowing the coil going 80 on the highway, etc, etc.
---quote
Sounds liek the usual POS VW stories I hear ,if VW continues this horrible dealer service they will lose many a customer


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## BBSturbo (Dec 4, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (BBSturbo)*

Time for a real car.....


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## outrun (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (RL331)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I know the coil packs are under warranty for you. But let me ask, because I'm not good at working on my own car, can the coilpacks be easily replaced like by even me??? I think they are about $60 each and if they are easy enough to pull out and put on your own, it may very well be worth it instead of wasting the time at the dealer. Can anyone shed light on replacing them on your own?[HR][/HR]​I'm not sure of the cost of these things, but you sparked up a pretty good solution (somewhat) to all of this. Just buy one coil pack (new style), and leave it on your back seat. Also keep handy any tools that are required to change one of these things. One might also want to practice changing these things before hand.
Now, when a coil goes bad, you don't have to remain stranded for hours until VW comes to pick you up. You can replace the coil on your own on the side of the road, drive to VW, and get a refund for the part you paid for. In the end, you'll end up breaking even and not be left for dead on the road in the middle of nowhere.
I think I'm going to do this very, very soon. But now that I've mentioned this, I'll probably blow one on the way home from work today.








-Craig


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## outrun (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (BBSturbo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Time for a real car.....
[HR][/HR]​What is that? A Sentra?








All these new Nissans look the same...
-Craig


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## vwconvert (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (BBSturbo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Time for a real car.....[HR][/HR]​Crap. Another troll. I like Nissans, I really do. If I didn't own a Passat, I may be behind the wheel of a G35 or Altima SE. The Maxima, however, is one ugly car. It's biggest competition in the style department is probably a 1994 Ford Taurus. But hey, to each his own......


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## prostfan (Feb 25, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (vwconvert)*

A Sentra. Now that's funny.








Speaking of I was telling my boss about my own coil pack issue (just had one replaced this week) and he starts telling me of his friend who just bought an SER-Spec V. After 4000 miles the car absolutely died. Still unsure of the cause.


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## VW-Newbie (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (BBSturbo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Time for a really ugly car..... [HR][/HR]​


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## Yanke (Jul 30, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (vwguild)*

vwguild, what if your sales rep is in CA and you are in WI?








anyhow, I've had the wagon since June and still love it. I'm expecting my coils to possibly fail, but oh well. it's a car after all, and in most cases they have mechanical issues every so often.


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## agarc (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

You're blaming the problem on VW when your dealership should actually be under fire. My dealership replaced all four coils as a precautionary measure. I'm lucky to have a dealership that actually does what it's supposed to do.
I hate it when people blame an entire company for something when the problem really lies with your dealership. Go to another dealership. Telling people not to buy Volkswagens doesn't fix the problem. Every make has bad dealerships.
I know several people who have Toyotas and have the same crappy situations. So does that make Toyota a bad company?








So, for anybody considering buying a VW for the first time, get one. Don't let these threads scare you away. VWs are some of the best cars on the road. And if you don't like your VW, get a boring Toyota and stop complaining in the VW forum. I mean, what do you want people to do, bust out crying for you?


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## B12Teuton (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Yanke)*

That Nissan is hideous!








Looks more like a Daewoo!


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## yrwei52 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (agarc)*

quote:[HR][/HR]You're blaming the problem on VW when your dealership should actually be under fire. My dealership replaced all four coils as a precautionary measure. I'm lucky to have a dealership that actually does what it's supposed to do.[HR][/HR]​agarc, apparently you did not read SAEDave post above. VWoA just issued a policy that the dealer can only replace the bad coil pack, not the good one like you did. Until you got screwed by VWoA, you won’t learn the lesson.


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## not_too_shabby (Apr 30, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (B12Teuton)*

A lady my wife works with bought a new maxima and the transmission died two weeks after she got it. Everybody has a horror story.
No coil pack problems here, but my 2001.5 may be "pre" bad batch. Plus the cold seems to aggravate it. Most of the people reporting multiple problems seem to be in the north and northeast.


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## agarc (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (yrwei52)*

I'm sorry, but I was just at my dealership this morning, and they are unaware of such a policy.








Do you have a corporate memo to prove this? Why would my dealership go out of their way to fix all four of my coilpacks? I know I'm not the only one who has had all four replaced.
I'm sorry, but the point of my post is that it's silly to label a company as "HORRIBLE" just because somebody has a problem with their car. All makes and models have problems. It seems pointless to come on a VW forum and tell everybody how horrible Volkswagen is when the problem is most likely the result of crappy dealership service (which is also not only a Volkswagen-only issue). Not that the owner shouldn't go on a rant, they should. But instead of complaining about the company, they should complain about the dealership and maybe go somewhere else.
quote:[HR][/HR]"You're blaming the problem on VW when your dealership should actually be under fire. My dealership replaced all four coils as a precautionary measure. I'm lucky to have a dealership that actually does what it's supposed to do."
agarc, apparently you did not read SAEDave post above. VWoA just issued a policy that the dealer can only replace the bad coil pack, not the good one like you did. Until you got screwed by VWoA, you won’t learn the lesson.







[HR][/HR]​


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## BBSturbo (Dec 4, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (agarc)*








<_---always will do ya good to have a membership to one of these.
It is annoying to have a fairly new car that the dealer wont back


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## yrwei52 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (agarc)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I'm sorry, but I was just at my dealership this morning, and they are unaware of such a policy.







[HR][/HR]​*VW revises coil pack policy - not good*


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## agarc (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (yrwei52)*

So you're deciding to believe what somebody else's dealership said. There's still no official word/memo that I'm familiar with. I just find this very hard to believe. That whole thread is based on somebody else's bad experience and hearsay.
So go on hating Volkswagen if it makes you happy.


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## lip (Apr 28, 2000)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (SAEDave)*

quote:[HR][/HR]This kind of treatment is part of the reason for the recent report of 15% reduction in U.S. sales for VW. [HR][/HR]​Actually VWsales have been super solid up until recently. However, every manufacturer has been effected by the downturn


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## yrwei52 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (agarc)*

quote:[HR][/HR]So you're deciding to believe what somebody else's dealership said. There's still no official word/memo that I'm familiar with. I just find this very hard to believe. That whole thread is based on somebody else's bad experience and hearsay...[HR][/HR]​Did you read the link? Seth did call VWoA about the issue and the "Customer Care" did tell him “we're not going to replace a part that is operating to normal specifications".


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## Muleskinner (Aug 9, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (yrwei52)*

OK, I've cooled off a little since yesterday. All cars made by VW are not bad; however, their reaction to this problem is despicable and shameful, IMO. 
I had defective brake rotors (all 4) replaced TWICE in the first 30,000 miles by Toyota as a precaution.
I'm sorry, but I believe in accountability. My $25,000 car has broken down TWICE before hitting even 20,000 miles - it ain't my fault, it ain't Ford's fault, it's a VW product. And if this is an indication of their top-down, worldwide attitude towards their customers, then I'll take my business elsewhere.


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## BBSturbo (Dec 4, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

Actually VWsales have been super solid up until recently. However, every manufacturer has been effected by the downturn----quote
that is INCORRECT
Nissan vehicle sales have increased


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## yrwei52 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (BBSturbo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Actually VWsales have been super solid up until recently. However, every manufacturer has been effected by the downturn----quote
that is INCORRECT
Nissan vehicle sales have increased[HR][/HR]​So as BMW, up 22%!!! A friend of mine had to pay MSRP to get a 330xi, not a penny discount!


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## Dafydd (Feb 25, 1999)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (BBSturbo)*

I was ripped off when the coil went bad; the dealer charged me about $500 to replace it! I probably will not buy another VW, but I am keeping this one as it is still cheaper than buying a new one.


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## BBSturbo (Dec 4, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Red Racer)*

They have to make money as you do. And if they scammed you go to another dealer ship...DONT BE A WUSS. If you have a problem then pay to fix it...Its called Love for your car...if your not feelin the love...go buy a honda ---QUOTE
Sorry,but that is an ignorant statement Love for his car thats a crook of **** 
If some people are dum enough to accept these problems on a new VW ,they will continue to manufacture these POS parts .


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## b5bel (Sep 26, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (BBSturbo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Time for a real car.....







[HR][/HR]​








besides the fact that there is major recall on lower control arms, and that Nissan is billions of $$ in debt, and is owned largely by Renault.


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## Wahaha (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (b5bel)*

Nissan, can you say DATSUN? junk.


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## BBSturbo (Dec 4, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Wahaha)*

besides the fact that there is major recall on lower control arms, and that Nissan is billions of $$ in debt---quote
Never heard of a control arm disorder but anyway the B5 has been plagued with its control arm problems and unresponsible VW hasn't issued a recall on it, at least Nissan has(taken from your statement above).
Nissan has been recovering from its debt,and even with its debt still has better quality control than VW
Please stop making excuses for the lack of quality control in VWs
bunch of POS's.
Nicely designed but vw needs to wake up if it wants to compete in the sales dept. with other family sedans like the Accord,Altima ,Camry


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## Schultz (Dec 12, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (BBSturbo)*

10. Thou shall love thy Volkswagen. Even if the child is sick, one shall love that child no less. Shower it with the gifts of custom accessories
2.Thou shall speak of Volkswagen several times daily and of a positive manner.
Commandments # 2 and 10 sould be helpfull here.
if that fails then crap man it's a car, things break, go wrong, go insane etc etc. Just cus my master cilinder went on my Prelude about 3000km after i bought it does not mean its crap, just cus my Rabbit has been perfect fo 20,000 km does not mean it's perfect. you want 100% reliablity get some running shoes.


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## b5bel (Sep 26, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (BBSturbo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Never heard of a control arm disorder but anyway the B5 has been plagued with its control arm problems and unresponsible VW hasn't issued a recall on it, at least Nissan has(taken from your statement above).
Nissan has been recovering from its debt,and even with its debt still has better quality control than VW
Please stop making excuses for the lack of quality control in VWs
bunch of POS's.
[HR][/HR]​Hey buddy, I work at as a tech in a VW dealership, and oh yeah, we also sell/service Nissans.


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## vwconvert (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (agarc)*

I think ultimately, VW has to be held accountable. Regardless of whether there is a specific coil pack policy or not, the fact is, there is way too much variation in the quality of VW service depts. VW is not doing something right in terms of the way they are regulating or incentivizing their dealers. Just as there is a lack of quality control in parts, there is a lack of quality control in dealer service. I was fortunate to find a truly first rate dealer here in Columbus. But I almost get the impression that they have to take hits themselves in order to serve the customer right. Good thing they sell other high end vehicles besides VW - they can probably subsidize their vw service hits. That isn't right because dealers are businesses and their job isn't to be altruistic to the public and take profit hits for the VW. Anyone see the latest JD powers poll about how dealers rate their manufacturers? Lexus dealers were happiest with their manufacturer. VW dealers were LEAST happy with their manufacturer. That's right, dead last. If VW dealers are pissed at VW, it makes serving the customer a little tougher. VW needs to get its sh$t together. 



[Modified by vwconvert, 6:03 AM 12-7-2002]


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## Jetta2.show (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

Hey bro







All makes of cars have their quirks, I have owned Nissan's, Ford's, Chevy's, Dodge's. The Nissan was always the brakes, rear tail lights would burn out often, and sometimes the car just never wanted to turn over. The Chevy was just a P.O.S., always in the shop for engine problems. The Dodge was a good car for a while, but the power is lacking greatly. The Ford's had 2 of them, both caught on fire, thatis why they are Found on the Road Dead (or) Fixed or Repaired Daily







As for My VW, I have had to replace i rear turn signal bulb, the 3rd brake light, and have my door lining replaced, BUT NO Engine or major Part problems http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Just remember when purchasing an automobile, that all makes have problems, itis unescapable








Take Care of Yourself and the Ones You Love,
Shawn


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## VeeDubLuv (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

there isnt a car on the road that has had or will have problems. things break, just consider yourself lucky that it broke while it was under warranty and you didnt have to shell out the cash to get it fixed. i totaly understand that it's a pain in the arse, and it's really annoying to have to go to the service department...but it's a car and they do in fact break.
i was a service advisor for Mazda and Volvo...you want to talk about unreliable products? i would never buy a Volvo...EVER. i know first hand how crappy these cars are. when the second or third year for the 850 rolled around, things just started to really go down hill...funny, that's about the same time the removed the 240 from production...but anyway. Mazda is about the same on the crappy scale...but guess what...they are both Ford products! suprise suprise!
personally, i will continue to buy VWs not only because of the unique styling, euro-ish feel and fun factor, but because VW is VW (and Audi and Porche...and that aint bad company to be in...heh). i like the fact that my car is really a VW. not some other car with a VW skin on. 
botom line is, if you want complete reliability...get a bike!


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## roccostud (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (outrun)*

its a Maxima, get one with the v6 and the manual transmission.... sweet car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

[Modified by roccostud, 7:02 PM 12-7-2002]


[Modified by roccostud, 7:03 PM 12-7-2002]


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## Braga_Dub (Sep 8, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (roccostud)*

Umm...
I have had nothing but good experiences at Springfield VW. Everytime we would go to get it fixed, they would call us and ask us if everything is still running ok with the car. But the problems would come back, finnaly he told us to leave it there for a week. (Since the problem would come back up after two days) sure enough, since then the car has been running fine








I Love Springfield VW








Edit: Cause of the way they treated us, we keep sending people there to buy cars







Most of them end up buying brand new VWs/Subarus. Just a few end up buying used.


[Modified by Euro Dude, 4:12 PM 12-7-2002]


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## BGK (Jul 29, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Euro Dude)*

VW does have reliability problems, no question about it. However, neither Toyota, Honda or Nissan has the brains in the US to currently sell a wagon version of the Camry, Accord or Altima/Maxima in the US. Btw, check out Car and Driver magazine's website for the first sneak picture of the new Altima based Maxima. It's unfortunately, UGLY.


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## Integrale (Aug 1, 1999)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (BBSturbo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Time for a real car.....







[HR][/HR]​
Ummmm....no.


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

Welcome, everyone, to the "VW Enthusiast's Website"!
...um, will the last VW Enthusiast to leave VWVortex please turn off the lights?
Thanx.


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## 6cylVWguy (Jun 14, 2000)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Integrale)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Time for a real car.....









Ummmm....no.[HR][/HR]​
Precisely!!! Not to mention that it appears that Nissan's famed ~260hp Maxima is apparently dynoing much less than what it should. I think there may be some legal action taken by some maxima owners. So, no the maxima is apparently not a perfect car either.


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (6cylVWguy)*

Y'know, the more times such irritating attitudes as the original poster's come up, the more convinced I become that my long-held loyalty to VW is worthwhile. Good Lord, if we all marched through this veil of tears nit-picking to _death_ everything that we experience the slightest momentary disappointment with, we'd all be one horribly miserable bunch of folks.








My currrent job is as a service advisor at a large Ford/Nissan/Mazda/Suzuki dealership. Okay, let's talk about how perfect Nissans are. The new Altimas, with their oingo-boingo gee-whiz clear taillamp housings, are having these units fill with condensation at a regular rate, which irritates owners no end, much less making the car look like trash. The interior trim-quality, already touched upon, is abominable, even for a third-world automaker. And, if you wanna really get down to ugly cases, we've got a new, low-mileage Altima in the shop that is blowing clouds of blue oilsmoke because of a broken piston ring.
This mythology that VW is the ONLY carmaker that has problems is just plain old bullsh*t.
Enough already.


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## ja jetz (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (vwlarry)*

Thank you Larry! Enough whining, moaning and groaning about VW quality, service or other such things. If you don't like VW, or have had bad experiences, then go buy a generic Asian car. Enjoy driving your somnambulant sedan and leave us real VW (and driving) fans alone. Oh, and by the way, my family and I have owned and driven more than 25 water-cooled VWs beginning with a '74 Dasher and all have been great cars. There have also been a number of Saabs, Volvos, Audis, Mercedes, BMWs, a Porsche and an MG in our fleets. We've even had a Japanese car or two (Mazda and Infiniti.) Funny, how those two were replaced, rather quickly, with European cars!


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## 1fastdub (Sep 26, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

Your complaining that they won't replace it. they're not broken yet. so i wouldn't expect them to replace it. Oh yeah, Volkswagen for life. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (1fastdub)*

I'm almost fifty years old. My heart MAY fail one of these days. Therefore, I want it to be replaced NOW.
Sheesh. We are the most mollycoddled, spoiled culture of nitwits in the history of...history.


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## VeeDubLuv (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (1fastdub)*

and this is EXACTLY how every single car maker looks at warranty...if it aint broke, dont fix it! (only exception to this rule i have ever seen is Lexus)
i cant even count (or would rather not) how many warranty claims were rejected at the dealership i worked at. mostly because a part was replaced either mistakenly or before it even had a chance to fail. granted...if the part wasnt replaced, the customer would almost surely make a return visit, as in Mr. Muleskinner's case. 
sucks royal...but that's just the policy.


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## borgron (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

I guess that your Toyota avoided the dreaded engine sludging problem.


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

Muleskinner:
Call the toll free VW national service number listed in your owners packet.
I believe it still is 1 800 444 VWUS
Expain your situation to the operator have your car information on hand, VIN number, dealer, ect., and tell this person that you INSIST on having a VW District Service Representative take this case on. You will be very satisfied by the response you get. 
Do not bother further with the dealer until you get the VW rep involved. He will MAKE the dealer (who is the real culprit here) replace the defective parts immediately. 
VW makes good product, the dealer network is the missing link.

Bill


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## mybabyjetta97vr6 (Sep 3, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (vwlarry)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Y'know, the more times such irritating attitudes as the original poster's come up, the more convinced I become that my long-held loyalty to VW is worthwhile. Good Lord, if we all marched through this veil of tears nit-picking to _death_ everything that we experience the slightest momentary disappointment with, we'd all be one horribly miserable bunch of folks.








Enough already.[HR][/HR]​Hallalooya.... for you. Isn't it true that with age comes wisdom! Very good reply.








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Passat2001_5lover (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HO ... (mybabyjetta97vr6)*

Warranty Service surprise: I recently took my V6 Tiptronic 2001.5 in for its 20K service and when it was returned, I found out my dealer had replaced the secondary vacuum line or hose, for free, under a recall. (remember the 2001.5 has free service until 24K miles) I am not even sure that my 2001.5 V6 has a secondary vacuum line recall. It was not broken, to the best of my limited knowledge, but it was replaced anyway. I certainly did not complain about it to my dealership. This somewhat disputes the earlier claims that VWofA won't fix a known problem piece that is still working--it did in my case. 
Can anyone confirm that this was done correctly, or did my dealership screw up?


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## VeeDubLuv (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HO ... (Passat2001_5lover)*

when the dealership replaces something under a recall campain it's a totaly different thing. if VW issued a recall then they _ *want* _ to replace that part. if the customer says "please replace this part because i know it is going to fail soon" they look at the customer like this:








and it's not an issue if the part is broken or not...the issue is that it _will_ break or do something to cause something adverse to happen. let me give you a funny example: Mazda put out a recall on it's tow eye brackets on Proteges...seems the brackets were too low and when some people went to park their cars up against those little cement curb stopper things...they would knock the tow eye and the air bags would go off. could you imagine parking your car then all of a sudden *BANG!!* air bag all up in your face! lol crazy mazdas


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## Elite Five (Nov 25, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HO ... (VeeDubLuv)*

i think your dealer sucks thats the problem


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## ibijo (Mar 31, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HO ... (Elite Five)*

I sense quite a bit of tribalism in here. Simmer down guys, he's not mad at your car or you specifically, he's mad at VOA and HIS car if it seems like he's putting down all of VW and all our cars, that's his problem in the end. It's only his opinion. Don't take the complaints too personally. Afterall, we all know it's no fun to have your car breaking down. Let's keep the discussions in a mature plane.


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## mybabyjetta97vr6 (Sep 3, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HO ... (ibijo)*

Very well said ibijo http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DieselLover (May 17, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (jeffp25)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Everything you've said is true. BUT, If VW cared about its customers, it would say "we will replace your other coils free of charge, but give us some sime because they are in short supply."
I had a Ford Contour V6 Sport just before the VW. It was a lot of fun, but I gave up on it after 4 years because:
1. It was terribly unreliable,
2. It had continual recalls, with poor coverage.
The last straw was when the ignition wiring harness failed, taking out the alternator and a bunch of other things. When I mentioned that it should be under the warranty because there was a recall for faulty wiring harnesses, they said that this particular harness wasn't in the recall (yet), so I wasn't covered. I traded the car in as soon as it was fixed - for the Passat.
Jeff
[HR][/HR]​I had a 97 Contour V-6 sport too. Just like yours, the wiring harness went (in Sept 2000). The following year, the alternator went (just after the warrenty expired). 
I traded it in on my 2002 Jetta TDI (no coil packs to worry about).
Stuart


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

This is similar to the window regulator problem that the MKIV Golfs/Jettas suffer from. It took a huge number of customers with this problem, to make VWoA see the light, they are now refunding peoples out of pocket money for any previous window failures caused by the plastic regulator, and from what I've seen most people are getting them replaced at scheduled maintenance visits. I think the coil packs will eventually end up this way...hopefully VW will realize a little pre emptive activity on their part could do wonders for their service reputation in the long run.
I have had one coilpack go on me in my 337( still under 5000 miles) and the dealer took care of me and provided a rental car, so I have no complaints....


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## Y2KVR6GTI (Aug 16, 1999)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (jcopley)*

"Unfortunately every car company makes a product that should probably be recalled, as is the case with the coils that everyone is having problems with. But I would love for you to show me a car company that hasn't had a problem with a production line of cars..."

I agree,
But for a car company to have many repeated problems with more than one item (ie: Window Regulators, MAF's, Coils etc..), and then not admit there is a problem at all, is unacceptable. How long did it take for us to get the memo admitting a problem on the window regulators; almost 3years after they were installed on some cars. Granted the windows were fixed uder warranty (often installing the defective part again), but VW is still refusing to admit a problem with MAF and Coils failing, resulting in the car owner paying for the costly repair. If you also factor in the high cost of missed work, getting stranded on vacation, or a possible risk to our safety...I think it's going to take awhile for consumers to trust VW again. 


[Modified by Y2KVR6GTI, 3:18 PM 12-11-2002]


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (Muleskinner)*

Dude,
I have had problems with VW AND my dealership that you cannot begin to imagine...this is why I will not be buying my 4th vw and I warn everyone I know away from anything VW/Audi.
Maybe one day they will figure it out...until then I will be driving almost anything else.


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## meDK (Dec 13, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (BBSturbo)*

Well, I'll add another "that's only one person's bad experience". Trust me there are many of us.
I've owned a 1.8T GLS for 2 years now and I haven't felt the turbo kick in for over a year. Constant problems that they can't fix. The car as just under 16K and it's 2 years old!!!!
It's at the dealer now awaiting my ONE coil. OK fine I understand shortage. I get it. Problem? My warranty is up next week. So, I call VWoA to get some sort of assurance that I will not have to pay when the other 3 coils go. I was told that VW is aware of the problem with coils but that I would need to purchase an extended warranty to ensure coverage. 
VWoA does NOT stand behind their products OR their customers. You can't know this until you've had to deal with them, plain and simple. You can't sit there and say VW is a good company if you've never had dealings with them aside from signing a contract. Why should we, who have had consistent problems (and I'm not talking about stupid broken cup holder either!) I'm talking about my engine cutting off while I'm taking a corner - Why would we come here and say that VWoA is a good company making a quality product? Perhaps many have not had problems. Yet, many others HAVE had problems that VWoA refuses to rectify and in fact, VW is making many of their so called 'valued' customers pay for it's defective parts







!!!


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## SchnellTDI (Oct 10, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (DrewD)*

Is VW a horrible company? Yes for hiring idiots - We have a service rep who has no clue what he is doing. I work at a dealer, and he allows the most outlandish repairs to go on(unneeded, inproperly diagnosed headgaskets, gobs of uneeded time spent on various repairs, but when a customer has a valid point, he doesn't allow that. He either is an idiot or he is being paid additional money to save VW money....well I believe he is wasting more than he saves. He hates me because I fix all of the trouble cars, and that seems to hurt his rating. What I and all of us need is a really good attorney. This coil issue is a joke - the mere design is a complete failure - the coils are easily replaced, but I caution anyone when replacing plugs....sometimes the coils break apart just by removing the coils. I can't wait for the Phaeton and Toureg to come out....hopefully I will be out of this dealer by then, and I'll let the rest of those guys struggle with those cars. I like VWs.....most of the engineering, but certain aspects are the worst. The people who created the "Marketplace concept" and "Brand Standards" have no clue about customer service, management, and the general treatment of employees, and with all of this, unless the Phaeton is a perfect car and never breaks, VW will falter.


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (SchnellTDI)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Is VW a horrible company? Yes for hiring idiots The people who created the "Marketplace concept" and "Brand Standards" have no clue about customer service, management, and the general treatment of employees, and with all of this, unless the Phaeton is a perfect car and never breaks, VW will falter.[HR][/HR]​
This nonsense is clearly at the feet of the US distributor, VWoA they think they are so clever that they will probably put themselves out of business, they already came close in the early eighties and mid ninties. 
VWoA should be liquidated and the manufacturer VW AG should run the show here.


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## SchnellTDI (Oct 10, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (golf strom)*

VWoA should be liquidated and the manufacturer VW AG should run the show here.

I agree that something has to be done, but I'm not so sure VWAG is the answer - they have for many years been blind to what is going on here in America....heck they are responsible for what VWUS does. I have even heard that they are the ones who are pushing the buttons here....ones like making techs put the 3 digit vendor code on everything we replace.....when most of the parts don't have them, or require that time paid just for test driving the car has to be on a punch ticket, ......I could go on and on.....problably the best one is that the labor/suggested repair time information is always out of date....sometimes by 10 years or more.....and they cheat themselves!!!!


[Modified by SchnellTDI, 4:20 PM 12-13-2002]


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## vwaudichris (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (meDK)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
I've owned a 1.8T GLS for 2 years now and I haven't felt the turbo kick in for over a year. Constant problems that they can't fix. The car as just under 16K and it's 2 years old!!!!
It's at the dealer now awaiting my ONE coil. OK fine I understand shortage. [HR][/HR]​First of all, you have a 10 year, 100k mi. warranty on your turbo....which "fluid passes through", so it's your fault you've been cruising around with a faulty one.
2nd, my 337 is waiting on one too, and they said they were only going to replace the bad one for now because there IS a shortage, and they're still not sure how many cars are potentially affected by this. After the initial "panic" blows over, they will likely go back to their original policy of replacing all four of them. They are however, replacing all four plugs at this time.
I DO hope they get their act together by the time these new models come out, but that in no way should mean that the person that buys a base Golf should be treated any different than the person that buys a Phaeton.
As they streamline the network and service dept's, they should weed out the bad apples that should stick to their GM mentality, as a lot of dealerships, (to the corporates' dismay) have several brands under one roof, and they're not usually all german brands either.
The Passat has the best resale value in its class.....the GS430 gives you a nose bleed in negative equity the second you drive it off the lot and burn your first tank of gas.
The only thing that *upsets* me, but not really, cause it did'nt affect my car, is the fact that some numb nutz for whatever reason made the decision to take the fog lights off the GTI's.....which does'nt make sense ANY way you hack it!
And one last thing just for the record. I've had 14 VW's including air-cooled's, and the most expensive repair I ever had to make was on an 85 Golf when my clutch (well worn and abused) went out. Other than that, I have'nt even had any trivial items come up. 
I have put hundreds of VW's on the road over the last 5 years and have never had one lemon-lawed on me, where-as I sold Jeeps for a year and a half and during that time had TWO lemoned on me. SO THERE!!!!!!


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (vwaudichris)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
I have put hundreds of VW's on the road over the last 5 years and have never had one lemon-lawed on me, where-as I sold Jeeps for a year and a half and during that time had TWO lemoned on me. SO THERE!!!!!!







[HR][/HR]​I am glad you have had nothing but wonderful experiences...but this is not what proves a company as good or bad. Its what happens when someone has a problem that proves a company's true mettle. And this is where VW is an absolute disaster. Even when there dealership screws up a customers car ( and they admitted to this) VWoA's answer is to simply tell the customer that they have absolutely no control over the dealership (which is BS as there is a franchise agreement). VWoA actually suggested that I should take the dealership to court.
If I wouldn't loss my butt trading this thing in I would already have disposed of it....but for now I am stuck in a car that even the manufacturer won't stand behind.


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## SchnellTDI (Oct 10, 2001)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (BryanH)*

I would really like to get a look at such a franchise agreement.....they pull money away from our dealer and others without blinking an eye - VW hates it when I spend time actually fixing a car, as sometimes it takes a lot of time to figure out difficult problems. They even make it harder for people who can fix the more difficult problems, and reward the idiots...and people wonder why they can't get their VW fixed at the dealer.


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (SchnellTDI)*

quote:[HR][/HR] VWoA should be liquidated and the manufacturer VW AG should run the show here.

I agree that something has to be done, but I'm not so sure VWAG is the answer - they have for many years been blind to what is going on here in America....heck they are responsible for what VWUS does. I have even heard that they are the ones who are pushing the buttons here....ones like making techs put the 3 digit vendor code on everything we replace.....when most of the parts don't have them, or require that time paid just for test driving the car has to be on a punch ticket, ......I could go on and on.....problably the best one is that the labor/suggested repair time information is always out of date....sometimes by 10 years or more.....and they cheat themselves!!!!

][HR][/HR]​I believe that VWoA is basically a independent company which is licensed by the manufacturer to sell and service VW AG products. 
If you speak to the average German VW owner and ask their experiences with VW service it would be totally the opposite from that of VWoA treatment of US and Canadian customers. 
Don't be fooled by VWoA propaganda they try to convince the US public that they are totally owned and operated by VW AG, but the fact is they are not. For example, VWoA has to state on product literature that they use VW AG trade names, like golf and Jetta with the PERMISSION of VW AG. 




[Modified by golf strom, 6:25 PM 12-15-2002]


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## Wazzudubchik143 (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (BBSturbo)*

...Being a VWVortex member, you should be ashamed of yourself for saying, "Time for a real car"....tisk, tisk http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## 1989red16V (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HOR ... (Wazzudubchik143)*

Time for a real car ............... AUDI S4 BI TURBO!!!!!!! thats just a little bit quicker than a nissan! 
GERMAN ENGINEERING PREVALES!!!!


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## wolfier (Mar 2, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (jcopley)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Unfortunately every car company makes a product that should probably be recalled, as is the case with the coils that everyone is having problems with. But I would love for you to show me a car company that hasn't had a problem with a production line of cars...[HR][/HR]​But the other companies RECALL them. This company waits for the failure to happen. Coilpacks, Window Regulators.
You're going to do it sooner or later anyway (VW shouldn't be that stupid to believe they are not design flaws and are just due to "bad batch"), why don't issue a recall just like all others do?


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## wolfier (Mar 2, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (agarc)*

quote:[HR][/HR]All makes and models have problems.[HR][/HR]​Well. Problems are not something that you either "have" or "have not".








VW cars seem to have _MORE_ problems than other brands (save for maybe Ford, Kia, GM and Chryslers.)


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## 1989red16V (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (wolfier)*

ya but unlike domestics they still run at 200,000 miles. A crapilier isn't doing that anytime soon.
LIL VOLK
Fx-motorsports


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## '03 Tradewind (Sep 21, 2002)

*Re: Considering a VW for the 1st time? Don't buy one! HORRIBLE company, read on.... (jeffp25)*

You know the problem is big -- and that VW will ultimately have to step up to the plate -- so just go to your trusted (non-genuine) garage, and have them replace your other three "defective" coil packs. 
Keep your receipt (that, of course, lists the 'defective diagnosis'), and drive your car with comfort -- waiting for the letter from VW which will advise that "...repairs that have already been made by the customer will be reimbursed, yada, yada, yada...").
You can sleep easy, cuz you will have "won".


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