# Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers??



## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

As most of you know Frankenturbo is devloping and working on a Hybrid turbo....the specs of this turbo can be seen here
http://frankenturbo.com/beta_F4h-t.html
I was curious what you guys would expect to see in terms of wheel horsepower and torque numbers.....I know there will be dyno's done and hard numbers provided but in the mean time it would be intresting to see what the thought is.
If slappy would like to weigh in on this, that would be great too.


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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (AWPGTI)*

someone weigh in on this


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (AWPGTI)*

He estimated 240whp, and considering its not built/tested yet you're asking for an armchair race...just wait til there is actual data


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## drmerdp (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (AWPGTI)*

If they can keep the price close to a standard borgwarner ko4-001 then sounds like a nice product.


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## slowonder (Sep 26, 2005)

if its gonna spike like some of the ko4's that have broken rods ill pass. if i have ot put rods in my motor im not putting a tiny ass turbo on there.


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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (slowonder)*

well it will prob need to be controlled with a boost valve


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## DeathKing (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: (slowonder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slowonder* »_if its gonna spike like some of the ko4's that have broken rods ill pass. if i have ot put rods in my motor im not putting a tiny ass turbo on there.

YUP ^
I'm really hoping there aren't any crazy torque spikes, otherwise there is no point.


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## ncsumecheng (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: (DeathKing)*

I hate to poop on the parade, but having had a K03s back in the day running around 230whp and a boatload of low-end torque, I can't say I ever would have purchased something like that. Looking back at it, that setup sucked. (I'm assuming non-Audi TT cars here....)
If I'm going to smoke tires in 1st, and maybe 2nd, why not go ahead and have some top end once you hit third by going BIG (3071 or more)?
Especially if this hybrid has rod snapping torque?


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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (ncsumecheng)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ncsumecheng* »_
If I'm going to smoke tires in 1st, and maybe 2nd, why not go ahead and have some top end once you hit third by going BIG (3071 or more)?


because of $$$


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (AWPGTI)*

all that power and no powerband sucks. Over 200whp and 300wtq and nothing past 5k (drop off at 4k)


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## The*Fall*Guy (Aug 10, 2009)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_all that power and no powerband sucks. Over 200whp and 300wtq and nothing past 5k (drop off at 4k)
No powerband eh? Compared to some of the monster turbos that many of you think are so great that spool at 5000, and your shift point is at 8000 ish?? That's no powerband!! Something like this would be great for the majority of enthusiasts..
I myself am getting ready to do a 3076r 63 ar build. Imo the biggest streetable setup that can be done.. So this turbo certainly isn't for me. But it would probably turn out to be a nice option for a guy who wants to replace his ko3s with something ever so slightly more efficient. 
Take it easy guys.. Not everyone is shooting for 500+ whp.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (The*Fall*Guy)*

When you have 20psi well before 3k just makes a stupid powerband. Only time this setup is decent is going 70mph on the highway and want to pass someone w/o downshift since you can hit 90 in no time.
I guess i shouldnt install my 35r .63 according to you 
10:1 2008cc motor doesnt need psi to get moving or pass people. Boost is just the added kick and when matched to a 35r leaves better control of when I go into it. It will have plenty of power from 3-8k, just lots more past 5k with the same spool as most peoples 3076r's


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_Only time this setup is decent is going 70mph on the highway and want to pass someone w/o downshift since you can hit 90 in no time.

Not such a bad thing to have, really.


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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (slappy_dunbar)*

When is this turbo going to be done???


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## saps (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: (slappy_dunbar)*


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (slappy_dunbar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappy_dunbar* »_
Not such a bad thing to have, really.









Having 1 positive with far to many negatives doesnt make it for most. Going from idle to 300wtq in 1500rpms isnt fun over and over again. I enjoy a powerband


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: (AWPGTI)*

Betas begin going out tomorrow...


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (slappy_dunbar)*

you can send one here if you want some real numbers. Deff wont harm my engine


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*FV-QR*

maybe if he did some clipping? I just think that thing's too small no matter what.
It'd be interesting to do something like an eliminator, but with a S256 or something, something with more powerband... The GTs are really peaky turbos.


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## -=GTI=- Zach (Sep 16, 2007)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

You could send a few for me to test on my VR








In all seriousness, I'm really happy that someone is developing some new turbos aimed at the 20v.


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## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (AWPGTI)*

i am interested in this hybrid ko4, my ko3s runs fine at 80k miles, but i know for sure it wont perform the same in next 80k miles...I got all the mods but no meth or mbc,,,,using apr.. i would have to upgrade to apr ko4 file,,,Apr ko4 claims 245hp 275lbs...But the hybrid ko4 it should be able to bring up to 260hp n 300 lbs.. but how??? vtune it ??? thats the problem.. having it tuned properly....


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## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (VWGolfA4)*

My god you guys are idiots.


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## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (AudiTToR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AudiTToR* »_My god you guys are idiots.

Why is that?


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## The*Fall*Guy (Aug 10, 2009)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (VWGolfA4)*

Popcorn anyone?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (02GTi1.8TcT)*

To answer your performance questions, the most significant object of this turbo is to provide a wider power band. Peak horsepower gains are a secondary issue, despite the prevalent enthusiasm for this statistic. You see, the compressor wheel we are using is not a drastic departure from that in the OEM K04-001. It just has slightly longer legs. Secondary to that, the manifold is meant to provide improved flow through the turbine, reducing backpressure and increasing force through the turbine wheel. Yes, that will raise the overall horsepower levels, but the main goal is to deliver a flatter, wider power curve. A comparison of the two turbos’ compressor MAPs will bear this out.
So please let's not get too breathless about the prospect of 260hp! Bottom line is that's not what this turbo is supposed to do.


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## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (slappy_dunbar)*

Listen....The k0- anything are great for stock applications. The reason vag used this turbo specifically was because it was the perfect turbo for the stock power band. Thats it, end of story. Once you start pushing it further than stock boost levels and trying to max it out, you basically have given this turbo its death sentance, and for what.....to drop a grand or so total to make maybe 50 extra horsepower? 
I dont care what housings you mix and match on what wheels, when you max out a turbo....dont expect it to be reliable. For all of you people out there talking about how the power band is so great and all, the power band will suck on this as well. sure you might not see boost fall off as much up top, but you have to remember you are pushing all that air through a hole the size of a pencil. Its going to create massive amounts of heat. As with every strung out Ko3 - Ko4 on TT's once you do that to these center sections, they will start spitting oil worse than your puking high school prom date. There are tried and true performance gains other than just slapping on a prayer k04 that will get you the same power increases and will also allow you to not respend that money if you ever get to upgrade at a later point.


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## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (AudiTToR)*

The ground work for creating great products has been layed out for us all pretty in a bow by the dsm world. If a company would like to make a lot of profit with very little work, then start to design housings to bolt up to the stock manifolds for the typical turbos. ATP did this back awhile ago with the Eliminator turbos...but they poorly designed the housings. 
The DSM boys have had the option of mating standard garrett T3/t4's for years. If a company would like to make a killing, I would suggest that they look into that as one of their main products.


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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (AudiTToR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AudiTToR* »_ If a company would like to make a lot of profit with very little work, then start to design housings to bolt up to the stock manifolds for the typical turbos.

this is a very good point my friend has a subie bolt a new tyrbo right up much biger much more power but very cheap http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (AWPGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AWPGTI* »_
this is a very good point my friend has a subie bolt a new tyrbo right up much biger much more power but very cheap http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

yup...my best friend is running around with at least 450awhp with a bolt on 50 trim on his 2.4 liter galant vr4. Stock manfiold.


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## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (slappy_dunbar)*

U made it clear to a deaf person about the wider power band...my ko3s is started to get worn out at 80K... the person who had it before me had GIAC. then i switch it to APR.....it time for a new oem turbo...Im ready to buy ko4 for 950 bucks...Franken turbo for 800 ? Ill give it a try.. otherwise i think this new longer legs turbo is waste of time n money...


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (AudiTToR)*

You guys are missing the fact that KKK manifolds flow for crap, and aren't good for a whole lot aside from something like one of these hybrid turbos; I would never want to put an actual BT-type turbo (28RS+) on an OEM or Kinetic manifold, they just aren't as good. I get the whole thing about wanting to easily bolt on bigger turbos but look at where our engine starts, either 180hp (the majority) or 225hp (225TT, mkI S3, etc); our engines have not had the 10+ years of development of a 4g63 (DSM/Evo) or EJ (Subaru) and they don't make good power out of the dealer. The OEM hardware is better (new Evo turbos are equivalent/better than a 2871) and there is a much bigger market for both cars. 
I AM NOT knocking Frankenturbo's ideas, I'm just trying to get the point across that its not as easy for 1.8T guys to make mad power with a mostly-stock setup; if you only want 250whp for your daily I see a hybrid as the best option http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Sketchykid (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (l88m22vette)*

I am very curious how these turn out working as I am working on a build under scca rules that requires stock turbo housing.
Anything helps at that point


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## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (slappy_dunbar)*

U made it clear to a deaf person about the wider power band...my ko3s is started to get worn out at 80K... the person who had it before me had GIAC. then i switch it to APR.....it time for a new oem turbo...Im ready to buy ko4 for 950 bucks...Franken turbo for 800 ? Ill give it a try.. otherwise i think this new longer legs turbo is waste of time n money...


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## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (02GTi1.8TcT)*

You can always wait for the K03 to die. Mine started dieing around 100k and I now have 122k. It still runs pretty well but smokes on startup, thats it. I dont have a gauge to test boost but it still pulls. Just do what Im doing, save up and see how much you have saved when it does die. That will determine what I can get.


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## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_You guys are missing the fact that KKK manifolds flow for crap, and aren't good for a whole lot aside from something like one of these hybrid turbos; I would never want to put an actual BT-type turbo (28RS+) on an OEM or Kinetic manifold, they just aren't as good. 


I take it you are talking about the Kindetic Manfiold for the OEM replacement?...at least I hope so.
care to explain why the stocker manifold flows so poorly?
It would be good for the kiddies to hear.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (AudiTToR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AudiTToR* »_
I take it you are talking about the Kindetic Manfiold for the OEM replacement?...at least I hope so.


I found that posting confusing as well. Are you talking about the OEM design? The aftermarket "high flow" casting (such as Kinetic)? Both?


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (AudiTToR)*

I meant either, the manifold flows fine for a k03 but I can't imagine using it for an eliminator 2871 or 3071; even the Kinetic would be a restriction with a big turbo. The runners do not have a huge volume and the flange outlet is small as well...again, I was just making a point, either would be good for a Frankenturbo


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?? (l88m22vette)*

The bottleneck in OEM is the manifold. When you swap it out for any "high flow" such as a Kinetic (or, uh, ours) the issue isn't the flange opening or the runners leading from there. At that point the bottleneck is the turbine wheel itself.


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## saps (Jul 10, 2009)

Stay tuned for some numbers gentlemen


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*FV-QR*

i always wondered how the kinetic mani (or similar "highflow" OEM style mani) could actually be high flow? seeing as exhaust STILL has to go through that little hole... i dont see it. someone enlighten me...


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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (saps)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saps* »_Stay tuned for some numbers gentlemen
have you tested it yet whats the time frame ??


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (5inchMAF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *5inchMAF* »_i always wondered how the kinetic mani (or similar "highflow" OEM style mani) could actually be high flow? seeing as exhaust STILL has to go through that little hole... i dont see it. someone enlighten me...

The runners have more flow and the collector is better, but your comment about the little hole (ie. the flange) goes along with what I said http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (l88m22vette)*

Alright, before anybody else thinks something dirty about "that little hole", keep in mind that the K04-series turbos all have a maximum scroll bore that's actually smaller than the manifold's outlet flange. The flange size is a non-issue when it comes to this configuration, in fact it's properly scaled to the setup.
That said, the OEM manifold is designed with constrictions exceeding those found in the flange and turbo inlet. Replacing it with a "high volume" manifold simply gives an increment of freer flow, helping top-end horsepower and throttle response. From our perspective, if you're going to upgrade the turbo, and you're already in there, why not change out the manifold as well? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## frostythesnowguy (Nov 28, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_
The runners have more flow and the collector is better, but your comment about the little hole (ie. the flange) goes along with what I said http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

thats why god invented dremal tools ha ha ha port that bitch sucka, port everything... always bt or kkk series. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: (AWPGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saps* »_Stay tuned for some numbers gentlemen


_Quote, originally posted by *AWPGTI* »_have you tested it yet whats the time frame ??

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## j. Kush (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (frostythesnowguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *frostythesnowguy* »_
thats why god invented dremal tools 

Actually, Albert J. Dremel invented the Dremel tool.


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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (j. Kush)*


_Quote, originally posted by *j. Kush* »_
Actually, Albert J. Dremel invented the Dremel tool.


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## jvw18t (Sep 20, 2009)

ive known a few people whether with the k04 or custom "frankenturbos" that think just cause its aftermarket means that it can handle max boost all the time, each one blew their seals and fried the turbos, so for the money idk im sure the extra kick is nice, fun for showing off, but to drive daily, forget it


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## frostythesnowguy (Nov 28, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (j. Kush)*


_Quote, originally posted by *j. Kush* »_
Actually, Albert J. Dremel invented the Dremel tool.









yeah... well, dracula called and he's coming tonight for you and I said ok.


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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (jvw18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jvw18t* »_ive known a few people whether with the k04 or custom "frankenturbos" that think just cause its aftermarket means that it can handle max boost all the time, each one blew their seals and fried the turbos, so for the money idk im sure the extra kick is nice, fun for showing off, but to drive daily, forget it
if you run any turbo at max boost all the time you will kill it, the best thing to do is treat it like a k03s and just enjoy the nicer torque curve


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (frostythesnowguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *frostythesnowguy* »_
yeah... well, dracula called and he's coming tonight for you and I said ok.


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## DH Photography (Sep 9, 2009)

I don't trust the hi flow mani's on these small turbos. Alot of people have have overspeed problems with them.
I'm crossing my fingers for this though, if its reliable, puts out alittle more power than the normal ko4 jimmy jam and is cost effective I'll probably get one. I've always hated how there is no in between a 1k turbo setup or $2,500.


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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (DH Photography)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DH Photography* »_
I don't trust the hi flow mani's on these small turbos. Alot of people have have overspeed problems with them.
I'm crossing my fingers for this though, if its reliable, puts out alittle more power than the normal ko4 jimmy jam and is cost effective I'll probably get one. I've always hated how there is no in between a 1k turbo setup or $2,500.
 the over speed is nothing a man boost controller cannt help, the manifold really isnt there for more power just to smooth out the curve and help on top end which is the biggest complaint on these


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: (DH Photography)*

FYI this will be a <$1000 setup


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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (slappy_dunbar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappy_dunbar* »_FYI this will be a <$1000 setup








another reason why it sound so good....


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## frostythesnowguy (Nov 28, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_









whats there to not get?
back to being serious, I think this would be a great idea for people looking for a little more pep from a daily driver. However this is not a new idea at all. theres a place in AZ gpopshop.com that will take your ko3s rebuild it and hone the cold side a bit and throw in a new compresser wheel that is 1mm bigger than the k04's compresser wheel and its only 400 bucks. I would go this route if I my 1.8 was my daily... but its not so I went BT


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (frostythesnowguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *frostythesnowguy* »_
... this is not a new idea at all. theres a place in AZ gpopshop.com that will take your ko3s rebuild it and hone the cold side a bit and throw in a new compresser wheel that is 1mm bigger than the k04's compresser wheel and its only 400 bucks.

Are you sure about that number? I think you're thinking of their OEM spec refurb. You send them a K03s and for that dollar you get a clean, shiny K03s back. Check their Turbo Upgrades section for a la carte pricing on wheel and shaft replacements. It gets more expensive when you add these goodies. Sorry.


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## frostythesnowguy (Nov 28, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (slappy_dunbar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappy_dunbar* »_
Are you sure about that number? I think you're thinking of their OEM spec refurb. You send them a K03s and for that dollar you get a clean, shiny K03s back. Check their Turbo Upgrades section for a la carte pricing on wheel and shaft replacements. It gets more expensive when you add these goodies. Sorry.

I called them because I was concidering doing it before I went BT. They quoted me 375ish for a standard rebuild and about 425-450 for the new comp wheel + rebuild etc... so still way cheaper than the frankenturbo. Not saying the frankenturbo is not worth it, its definatly worth it for the money. I would get the frankenturbo myself (if I was going that route) solely because then you have an "in case sh-it" turbo. props to you guys for the good ideas though http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (frostythesnowguy)*

do they have any numbers to back it up??


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (AWPGTI)*

The quote was in DOLLARS, not HP. You are clear on that right?








Otherwise that would be SOME K03!


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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (slappy_dunbar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappy_dunbar* »_The quote was in DOLLARS, not HP. You are clear on that right?








Otherwise that would be SOME K03!
I know that was $$ my point is they never showed any number on this


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## frostythesnowguy (Nov 28, 2008)

yeah definatly dollars ha ha. they have the same numbers you got pal, for half the price


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## frostythesnowguy (Nov 28, 2008)

ha ha bt sucka I don't play that ko4 **** anyway.... food for thought


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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (frostythesnowguy)*

in the end you have to ask would you want to pay the same amount for a rebuilt or used turbo....I think there is a simple answer


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## Vee-Dubber-GLI (Nov 27, 2006)

*Re: (AWPGTI)*

I'm interested because I'm looking at just providing a slight bump in power and performance and plan on DD'ing the car for awhile. Seems like a cool idea; pretty interested to see how this turns out.

__
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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (Vee-Dubber-GLI)*

then the thing to do is either get a K04 or this hybrid turbo when it comes out


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## Vee-Dubber-GLI (Nov 27, 2006)

*Re: (AWPGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AWPGTI* »_then the thing to do is either get a K04 or this hybrid turbo when it comes out 

Any info on distribution/distributors or will they just sell them from the Frankenturbo site? That and where did people find prices? I looked and didnt find any.








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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: (Vee-Dubber-GLI)*

The website is being updated today and tonight. You should see more/better info very quickly now.


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## Vee-Dubber-GLI (Nov 27, 2006)

*Re: (slappy_dunbar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappy_dunbar* »_The website is being updated today and tonight. You should see more/better info very quickly now.









Thanks man. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I replied to your PM but not sure if you got them.







Either way, thanks for the info.


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## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (Vee-Dubber-GLI)*

Any numbers on this yet ???


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## vwguy3 (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: (AWPGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AWPGTI* »_Any numbers on this yet ???

Ditto. also can expect about the Hp numbers if I put this turbo in my 03 passat?
Thanks
Justind


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## [email protected] (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: (vwguy3)*

Are thoses # out yet?
Sorry was busy at h20 but want to know without reading the...
Yes i am curious!


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Alex --
As sponsor of this forum (and thread) -- what Eurospec tune would you suggest for this level of turbo? For the sake of discussion let's assume a 2.5" MAF and stock injectors are present along with the FrankenTurbo.
Sorry, Alex, I stupidly called you Eurospec when I know enough to read the banner ad up top: Unitronic.










_Modified by slappy_dunbar at 7:41 AM 9-28-2009_


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## Bora Jon (May 31, 2007)

*Re: (slappy_dunbar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappy_dunbar* »_Alex --
As sponsor of this forum (and thread) -- what Eurospec tune would you suggest for this level of turbo? For the sake of discussion let's assume a 2.5" MAF and stock injectors are present along with the FrankenTurbo.

so this turbo seems to me to be a K04-02X hybrid in a k04-001 location? 
and the stock injectors wouldn't be sufficient I'm guessing for this turbo in a chipped application, at least the duty cycle would be crazy high from what I'm seeing in turbine sizes.








very interested to see what the power curve and hp/tq numbers look like. this could be a very good option for a guy like me who wants to have more power, but with a stock type setup in order to save $$$ this may be my deciding factor in how much money I dump into my new clutch in the spring.

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## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: (NH_Bora+)*

Wait, I am confused, I thought this was a K04-001 / K03s hybrid, nothing to do with a K04-02x.








I know he is going to do this in the future but I thought the test setups that are out there now were just the k04-001 hybrids?


_Modified by VWGolfA4 at 10:42 AM 9-28-2009_


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## Blu--Pearl (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: (slappy_dunbar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappy_dunbar* »_Alex --
As sponsor of this forum (and thread) -- what Eurospec tune would you suggest for this level of turbo? For the sake of discussion let's assume a 2.5" MAF and stock injectors are present along with the FrankenTurbo.
Sorry, Alex, I stupidly called you Eurospec when I know enough to read the banner ad up top: Unitronic.









_Modified by slappy_dunbar at 7:41 AM 9-28-2009_

na i would go with uni ko4 file with 380cc injectors. this will be a way better setup.


----------



## Bora Jon (May 31, 2007)

*Re: (VWGolfA4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWGolfA4* »_Wait, I am confused, I thought this was a K04-001 / K03s hybrid, nothing to do with a K04-02x.








I know he is going to do this in the future but I thought the test setups that are out there now were just the k04-001 hybrids?

_Modified by VWGolfA4 at 10:42 AM 9-28-2009_

from what I read and saw about the turbine sizes it seemed that they were a combination of ko4-001 and 02x wheels, but I haven't found an answer yet, hence the ?


----------



## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*FV-QR*

for me, it'll come down between a junkyard T3 (possibly w/ stage 3 wheel), or this turbo.
I don't expect huge HP numbers (maybe TQ), but I'm interested moreso in the curve.


----------



## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (-Khaos-)*

the curve will be nice it will prob hold boost to red line and give more HP which is what people complained about with the K04


----------



## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (AWPGTI)*

since there seem to be alot of people looking at this how would you guys fix an overboost issue ......i mean a boost valve would do it right?? but what would be a good level to clamp this off at 23psi or is that still too high?


----------



## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (AWPGTI)*

dyno......or it didnt happen.


----------



## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (AWPGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AWPGTI* »_since there seem to be alot of people looking at this how would you guys fix an overboost issue ......i mean a boost valve would do it right?? but what would be a good level to clamp this off at 23psi or is that still too high?


----------



## Boost Addicted (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (AWPGTI)*

T/T04E 50 trim with the .48. dont need rods.... cheap. and proven. Ive been BT for 35k miles not single hiccup. 50 trim spools at a little over 3k, and i run like a raped ape.


----------



## [pl] (Sep 13, 2003)

lets just stay on topic of the turbo. I would get this for the longer power band over the k04-01 and its price.
We all have opinions and preferences.
A turbo upgrade like this becomes more cost effective as supporting mods of a big turbo drain the wallet, and when i say supporting mods i mean a proper set up from manifold, internals to clutch, engine mounts, differentials. then add brakes and tires. All or nothing.


----------



## DeathKing (Jun 20, 2008)

Isn't this already cheaper than a regular k04?
Or does the $900 price only include the turbo


----------



## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (DeathKing)*

they told me it was $800 dollar for the frankenturbo..about $100 cheaper than the ko4.. I would say about 10ft-lbs gain using FT that's about it...like sum1 here said its a good swap only if your stock turbo goes bad.. The KO3s spools up lil faster than the ko4 on low ends.. so Ive worked hard and saved money and brought the APR stage 3 kit for 4K. You would save alot of money if you can do the stock turbo swap yourself, if not then you should spent a few thousands of dollars on something else.. dont yall agree ??











_Modified by 02GTi1.8TcT at 12:14 AM 9-30-2009_


----------



## DeathKing (Jun 20, 2008)

Huh?
- Who is they?
- I'd say a little more than 10ft-lbs
- If you want more power than you should spend more money yes. I personally wouldn't spend it on the APR kit though.


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: (DeathKing)*

The UNI Stage 2+ file would work great with this setup! I can help you with logging and tweaking once your ready to go!


----------



## DH Photography (Sep 9, 2009)

software that costs as much as the turbo= fail


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: (DH Photography)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DH Photography* »_...software that costs as much as the turbo....

No no, I think he's suggesting their less expensive tuning package for OEM, which runs right around what anybody else's tunes would. Yes, the BT software gets up there, but I'm guessing that involves a higher degree of logging/tinkering/adjusting.


----------



## DH Photography (Sep 9, 2009)

true. I have nothing against Uni, I like them but that ish gets expensive!
what is the F22 all about?


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: (DH Photography)*

we are moderately priced. Less than some others and comparable to others.
$650 for new installation. 
Upgrade price is the cost difference from your current Unitronics tune to the stage 2+. Say you're a stage 2 at a cost of 600 but you got it at a show for 500, you would still only pay the $50 difference from Stage 2 to 2+


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_we are moderately priced. Less than some others and comparable to others.
$650 for new installation. 
Upgrade price is the cost difference from your current Unitronics tune to the stage 2+. Say you're a stage 2 at a cost of 600 but you got it at a show for 500, you would still only pay the $50 difference from Stage 2 to 2+










I got to give a plus to unitronic because everyone i know that has got theirs tuned is happy but my own personaly experiance has been horible with them... even during office hours i cant get ahould of anybody working them and lavi expecially you are hard to get ahould of.... as much as i try i can never reach you.. unless you can call me tommorrow lavi i will be goin eurodyne you have my number.... plus when evr i talk to someone at eurodyne i never have a problem contacting them even after hours or before and they dont take 4 days to answer my questions


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_
I got to give a plus to unitronic because everyone i know that has got theirs tuned is happy but my own personaly experiance has been horible with them... even during office hours i cant get ahould of anybody working them and lavi expecially you are hard to get ahould of.... as much as i try i can never reach you.. unless you can call me tommorrow lavi i will be goin eurodyne you have my number.... plus when evr i talk to someone at eurodyne i never have a problem contacting them even after hours or before and they dont take 4 days to answer my questions

got your PM tonight, call you tomorrow. though im confused the last we we talked about was sponsorship application?


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
got your PM tonight, call you tomorrow. though im confused the last we we talked about was sponsorship application?


replied


----------



## leftside (Sep 25, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*

Watching


----------



## PhilW (Jan 3, 2006)

These are starting to become big business in the Uk now due to the expense of a decent priced RHD kit.
Most people are seeing aroundf 280BHP and 300lbs/ft.


----------



## Blu--Pearl (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: (DH Photography)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DH Photography* »_true. I have nothing against Uni, I like them but that ish gets expensive!
what is the F22 all about?


U get what u pay for. 
I would deff run uni with the turbo. There a kid here on a normal ko4 with highflow mani and he puching out 250whp on pump gas and meth. So this turbo plus the uni file and 380cc injectors should make that eazy on pump gas. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## tommypommy (Dec 3, 2005)

I want some figures! Australians are waiting!


----------



## steve05ram360 (Aug 14, 2006)

Yeah what is the holdup with dyno numbers?
Has it been requested that data be kept private until beta testing is complete?


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: (steve05ram360)*


_Quote, originally posted by *steve05ram360* »_Yeah what is the holdup with dyno numbers?
Has it been requested that data be kept private until beta testing is complete?

Not that im aware of. The few people im speaking with are gearing up to get software and probably have a dyno in a week or so.


----------



## steve05ram360 (Aug 14, 2006)

what s/w would you recommend for a stage 1+ owner & how much $ would it run?


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: (steve05ram360)*


_Quote, originally posted by *steve05ram360* »_what s/w would you recommend for a stage 1+ owner & how much $ would it run?

it would be an upgrade to the stage 2+, which is the cost difference. 550->650= so you would only have to pay $100 for the file
I will be speaking with Doug Harper in about 15mins and i will see if he can send up a kit and we can slap it on the 1.8t we have already hooked up on the engine dyno and see what this thing can do and any possible changes needed to the file!


----------



## Yosh_Cupra (Jun 28, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

LOL Mike will be using that setup to sort out the wot box issues on my file


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: (Yosh_Cupra)*

Looking good, Spoke with Doug Harper. really nice guy by the way, very excited about this project and making sure his parts are up to par!
I will know more hopefully monday, but should have a FrankenTurbo sent to HQ in the coming week and will slap it on the engine dyno and go from there!


----------



## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

very cool


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: (AWPGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AWPGTI* »_very cool

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## DH Photography (Sep 9, 2009)

I just have APR so I don't wanna have to switch to a different company just to get a decent tune out of this...
I'd love to see how this performs with manifold and with/without injectors


----------



## nomomk3 (Jun 9, 2006)

*Re: (DH Photography)*

I know unitronic has been working with sem and their intake mani which i think is one of the better ones for the 1.8t. i wonder what the numbers would be with the frankenturbo as well as sem's intake mani. throw in the uni tune and some injectors...the posibilities.


----------



## leftside (Sep 25, 2005)

*Re: (nomomk3)*

I dont think this has been asked...
Will this be offered without the manifold and DV? Or just a turbo and manifold option?


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: (nomomk3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nomomk3* »_I know unitronic has been working with sem and their intake mani which i think is one of the better ones for the 1.8t. i wonder what the numbers would be with the frankenturbo as well as sem's intake mani. throw in the uni tune and some injectors...the posibilities.


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (nomomk3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nomomk3* »_I know unitronic has been working with sem and their intake mani which i think is one of the better ones for the 1.8t. i wonder what the numbers would be with the frankenturbo as well as sem's intake mani. throw in the uni tune and some injectors...the posibilities.

Too bad it's designed for BIG TURBO applications. DonR specifically said "3071r and larger" to expect gains.


----------



## nomomk3 (Jun 9, 2006)

*Re: (16plus4v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_
Too bad it's designed for BIG TURBO applications. DonR specifically said "3071r and larger" to expect gains.

ya that is true i talked to a rep at sem a couple weeks ago he basically said that its not worth the money for what i was looking to do. but he also said that nobody has really tested it on a stock turbo.


----------



## steve05ram360 (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: (nomomk3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nomomk3* »_
ya that is true i talked to a rep at sem a couple weeks ago he basically said that its not worth the money for what i was looking to do. but he also said that nobody has really tested it on a stock turbo.


Maybe Lavi can slap it on there when he does the testing he mentioned earlier...
that would be nice to see what the before & after (mani) would be with this turbo.


----------



## nomomk3 (Jun 9, 2006)

*Re: (steve05ram360)*

i hope he has one lying around.


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: (steve05ram360)*


_Quote, originally posted by *steve05ram360* »_

Maybe Lavi can slap it on there when he does the testing he mentioned earlier...
that would be nice to see what the before & after (mani) would be with this turbo. 

Possible.... will look into it.


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *steve05ram360* »_

that would be nice to see what the before & after (mani) would be with this turbo. 



why? that would waste time. you can do it on paper, and realize very quickly that it would be mismatched. why would you use a mani that will, by itself, move the power band up to the right on on a motor with a turbo that makes nearly all of it power way down low. this mani on a k03/4 will do nothing but hurt performance....
there... i saved you guys all that time.


----------



## ~Enigma~ (Jul 8, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (5inchMAF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *5inchMAF* »_

why? that would waste time. you can do it on paper, and realize very quickly that it would be mismatched. why would you use a mani that will, by itself, move the power band up to the right on on a motor with a turbo that makes nearly all of it power way down low. this mani on a k03/4 will do nothing but hurt performance....
there... i saved you guys all that time.

cause its not a waste.... maybe not a big deal, but not a waste. the K series turbos make a low end burst and die up high, but if it takes a little from the low and brings a little to the top then IMO that is alright. Id rather have that. My low end is too torq-y, and Im mostly OEM spec, plus any upgrade in airflow is still an upgrade (maybe not worth the $, but not a waste to test)


----------



## steve05ram360 (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (5inchMAF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *5inchMAF* »_

why? that would waste time. you can do it on paper, and realize very quickly that it would be mismatched. why would you use a mani that will, by itself, move the power band up to the right on on a motor with a turbo that makes nearly all of it power way down low. this mani on a k03/4 will do nothing but hurt performance....
there... i saved you guys all that time.

lol, no YOU can go do it on paper... me & a bunch of others (I'm sure) wanna see dyno plots. more data the better.


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *steve05ram360* »_
lol, no YOU can go do it on paper... me & a bunch of others (I'm sure) wanna see dyno plots. more data the better.


why would you wanna see a dyno for THIS?!! a few of us have been doing this stuff long enough (and grasp the over-all theory well enough) to be able to accurately predict the outcome of something like this (especially something so trivial as this), without actually having to carry it out (because it would be a TOTAL waste of time/money)
the SEM mani (and its equivalents) moves the powerband farther over to/makes its gains in the higher RPMs, and will add a degree of extra lag to any setup it is used in conjunction with. the K03 makes ALL of its power in the low/mid-range (everywhere EXCEPT where the SEM mani will make its gains). adding lag to a k03 will do nothing but force it to try to flow air in an area will it already chokes. thus you would lose most of the only area of the rev range where the k03 does well. the point of an aftermarket intake mani is to improve flow at higher RPMs (but ALWAYS at the expense of low end power and added lag), yet there is no flow at higher RPMs with this tiniest of all turbos. in the end you would ABSOLUTELY lose power using this mani and make for a poor powerband while doing it http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif

_Quote, originally posted by *~Enigma~* »_
plus any upgrade in airflow is still an upgrade 


the problem lies in the inherent limitation of the compressor itself, the mani is not the issue.


----------



## RvGrnGTI (Apr 13, 2005)

*Re: (nomomk3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nomomk3* »_I know unitronic has been working with sem and their intake mani which i think is one of the better ones for the 1.8t. i wonder what the numbers would be with the frankenturbo as well as sem's intake mani. throw in the uni tune and some injectors...the posibilities.

what a waste of an upgraded intake manifold for a stock turbo... those manifolds are meant for turbos making *real power. *


----------



## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*FV-QR*

it's like upgrading the pancake pipe on stock turbo... Makes no sense. 

Anyway, we need numbers out of this thing!


----------



## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (5inchMAF)*

That's why I didn't bother to waste my money on the ko4 when my bad ass ko3s is fine,, i went for APR stage 3.. many out there says its over price kit. you can buy the kinetic turbo kit n tuning {injectors} either go uni or eurodyne..and it doesn't come with a little cute book of DYI...Its almost the same price. I got the kit for 4K. it comes with everything that i don't need to worry about buying anything else...


----------



## steve05ram360 (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (5inchMAF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *5inchMAF* »_
why would you wanna see a dyno for THIS?!! a few of us have been doing this stuff long enough (and grasp the over-all theory well enough) to be able to accurately predict the outcome of something like this (especially something so trivial as this), without actually having to carry it out (because it would be a TOTAL waste of time/money)
the SEM mani (and its equivalents) moves the powerband farther over to/makes its gains in the higher RPMs, and will add a degree of extra lag to any setup it is used in conjunction with. the K03 makes ALL of its power in the low/mid-range (everywhere EXCEPT where the SEM mani will make its gains). adding lag to a k03 will do nothing but force it to try to flow air in an area will it already chokes. thus you would lose most of the only area of the rev range where the k03 does well. the point of an aftermarket intake mani is to improve flow at higher RPMs (but ALWAYS at the expense of low end power and added lag), yet there is no flow at higher RPMs with this tiniest of all turbos. in the end you would ABSOLUTELY lose power using this mani and make for a poor powerband while doing it http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
the problem lies in the inherent limitation of the compressor itself, the mani is not the issue.


I'd want to see this because it is on an engine dyno in a professional establishment being run by experts who can bang this out in a few hours at the cost of the intake mani gasket & the operators labor. I have yet to see a dyno plot of a performance manifold on a mildly modded motor. I would expect the curves to change and that change is what i want to evaluate for myself. I have searched and searched and am coming to the conclusion that anything bigger than a K04-2x is not what I need since I enjoy driving my tt on a day to day basis on the twisties and anything bigger will be a let down. 
For straight line power I'd rather throw the $ into the ram that could scoot down the track quicker than the 1.8 will and still take me off road and get me 18~20 mpg.

How much testing have you personally done on your cars?


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (steve05ram360)*

Our engine dyno is awesome. We putted lot's of money and time to make it happen.
We have all 1.8T's, 2.0 FSI, TSI engines... a gaz tank with all pumps to replicate an exact running engine and so on...
Right now we already have a long list of files to develop on it but Lavi managed to have a frankenturbo and we will test our K04 001 file on it to see if we can extract more power from it.
In the next weeks we will finally develop and launch more engine specific BT files, water meth stage 2 files...
I dont remind having a SEM intake in stock but it can be done.
Personally i don't see the point with this turbo but...
Hey slappy dunbar maybe that turbo could endup in my car??


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers?*

Is the Frankenturbo somewhat similar to what HGP has offerred for the 1.8T for several years?
http://www.hgp-turbo.de/vw/1_8turbo.html


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers? (Imola Yellow GTi)*

I think so. I know our mexican dealers can provide me with some similar hybrids and i also saw a vortex user once did this turbo mix.
i personally have interest in it when my turbo will go.

_Quote, originally posted by *Imola Yellow GTi* »_Is the Frankenturbo somewhat similar to what HGP has offerred for the 1.8T for several years?
http://www.hgp-turbo.de/vw/1_8turbo.html


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *steve05ram360* »_
I'd want to see this because it is on an engine dyno in a professional establishment being run by experts who can bang this out in a few hours at the cost of the intake mani gasket & the operators labor.
*But why? EVERYONE here is telling you THERE IS NO POINT!!!*
I have yet to see a dyno plot of a performance manifold on a mildly modded motor.
*And you never will. IT IS A WASTE OF MONEY!!!! it will only HURT the powerband.*
I would expect the curves to change 
*well no sh!t theyll change, but only for the worse.*
and that change is what i want to evaluate for myself. 
*
Then fork over $1000 for a mani and some dyno time and evaluate away*









For straight line power I'd rather throw the $ into the ram that could scoot down the track quicker than the 1.8 will and still take me off road and get me 18~20 mpg.
*It all makes sense now after reading this statement. LOL. you drive a Dodge truck. no wonder common sense and the laws of physics make no sense to you.*

How much testing have you personally done on your cars? 
*Hundreds of hours*


----------



## 04VDubGLI (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers? (Imola Yellow GTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Imola Yellow GTi* »_Is the Frankenturbo somewhat similar to what HGP has offerred for the 1.8T for several years?
http://www.hgp-turbo.de/vw/1_8turbo.html


No. That's a turbine housing. That changes only the turbine housing a/r. This turbo is changing both of the wheels entirely. That means a new wheel --> new trim and different airflow specs compared to stock.


----------



## Bora Jon (May 31, 2007)

*Re: Hybrid K04 by Frankenturbo dyno numbers? (04VDubGLI)*

any dyno plots yet?


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

what max g/s are you seeing on logs from this setup? be interested to compare to the UK hybrids I see


----------



## NahRamp18t (Oct 6, 2008)

dyno numbers?


----------



## Blu--Pearl (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: (NahRamp18t)*

dyno that car already.


----------



## DeathKing (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: (Blu--Pearl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blu--Pearl* »_dyno that car already.

Wait for software already


----------



## Blu--Pearl (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: (DeathKing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DeathKing* »_
Wait for software already


go to yur nearest uni dealer, get the ko4 uni file and some 415cc injector run at 3bar. Put on dyno and tune it







it will work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: (DeathKing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DeathKing* »_
Wait for software already

I know this seems to be taking an eternity. But we are working on it: two testers are driving with the prototypes in. One is waiting on computer hardware so he can dial in his tune, the other is waiting for me to provide a prototype to Unitronic for them to test/program. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Trust me, we are very eager ourselves to see what this design can do -- especially when it's all dressed up with a custom Unitronic tune! -- so we're doing everything we can to keep the process moving. Thanks for your patience everybody!








slappy


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: (Blu--Pearl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappy_dunbar* »_
I know this seems to be taking an eternity. But we are working on it: two testers are driving with the prototypes in. One is waiting on computer hardware so he can dial in his tune, the other is waiting for me to provide a prototype to Unitronic for them to test/program. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Trust me, we are very eager ourselves to see what this design can do -- especially when it's all dressed up with a custom Unitronic tune! -- so we're doing everything we can to keep the process moving. Thanks for your patience everybody!








slappy

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Quote, originally posted by *Blu--Pearl* »_

go to yur nearest uni dealer, get the ko4 uni file and some 415cc injector run at 3bar. Put on dyno and tune it







it will work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

its 380cc injector "G"


----------



## vwguy3 (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: (slappy_dunbar)*

Is there anyway to run this turbo without spending 800 bucks on a chip? I am sure Uni is probably the best way to go with any turbo, but it seems kind of spendy for someone trying to save a little money on a big turbo kit.
Can't wait to see the numbers!!!
Thanks
Justind


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: (vwguy3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwguy3* »_Is there anyway to run this turbo without spending 800 bucks on a chip? I am sure Uni is probably the best way to go with any turbo, but it seems kind of spendy for someone trying to save a little money on a big turbo kit.
Can't wait to see the numbers!!!
Thanks
Justind

Stage 2+ software is only 650


----------



## DeathKing (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: (slappy_dunbar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappy_dunbar* »_
I know this seems to be taking an eternity. But we are working on it: two testers are driving with the prototypes in. One is waiting on computer hardware so he can dial in his tune, the other is waiting for me to provide a prototype to Unitronic for them to test/program. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Trust me, we are very eager ourselves to see what this design can do -- especially when it's all dressed up with a custom Unitronic tune! -- so we're doing everything we can to keep the process moving. Thanks for your patience everybody!








slappy

I just poking fun at the others, I already know once the software is on they'll hit the dyno.


----------



## NahRamp18t (Oct 6, 2008)

How is this compared to the k04-02x setup? Which would be a better bang


----------



## DeathKing (Jun 20, 2008)

Well hopefully, this....by a lot


----------



## 04VDubGLI (May 20, 2005)

*Re: (DeathKing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DeathKing* »_Well hopefully, this....by a lot

That'd be extremely unlikely. The k04-02x still has a larger compressor wheel - though the maps look similar ish. The turbine wheels do seem to be about the same size though. I'd say same performance best case scenario.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: (DeathKing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DeathKing* »_Well hopefully, this....by a lot

The F4 series turbo performance is not meant to exceed the OEM K04-02x design. While the performance will be comparable, it will not match the larger turbo's figures -- it just can't: the compressor wheel and housing are smaller as is the turbine housing. But also unlike the -02x, it is a simple drop-in form factor. Installation of the F4 is much simpler and less costly than the -02x. *Bottom line, performance vs. the K04-001 is the better question.* Versus the -02x, the question is "how easily does it install?" and "how much will this cost?"


----------



## Blu--Pearl (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: (slappy_dunbar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappy_dunbar* »_
The F4 series turbo performance is not meant to exceed the OEM K04-02x design. While the performance will be comparable, it will not match the larger turbo's figures -- it just can't: the compressor wheel and housing are smaller as is the turbine housing. But also unlike the -02x, it is a simple drop-in form factor. Installation of the F4 is much simpler and less costly than the -02x. *Bottom line, performance vs. the K04-001 is the better question.* Versus the -02x, the question is "how easily does it install?" and "how much will this cost?" 

Very tru. But ima give the franken ko4 a lil hope.








Seeing i made 253whp on a normal ko4-001 with highflow mani, 3" turboback, fmic, pumpgas and meth.
The franken ko4 should do pretty much in the ball park of 240whp to 250whp on pump. With the smae mods but with a better and longer lasting power curve. I know not big turbo power curve but better than a normal ko4-001 power curve. 
But Im gonna give yur


----------



## DeathKing (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: (Blu--Pearl)*

I didn't mean pure numbers

_Quote, originally posted by *Blu--Pearl* »_
The franken ko4 should do pretty much in the ball park of 240whp to 250whp on pump. With the smae mods but with a better and longer lasting power curve. I know not big turbo power curve but better than a normal ko4-001 power curve. 

This ^ plus the cost factor is what I am considering better bang for the buck
Oh and question. Are all the current testers using transverse kits?


_Modified by DeathKing at 10:19 AM 10-9-2009_


----------



## Vee-Dubber-GLI (Nov 27, 2006)

*Re: (DeathKing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DeathKing* »_I didn't mean pure numbers
This ^ plus the cost factor is what I am considering better bang for the buck
Oh and question. Are all the current testers using transverse kits?

_Modified by DeathKing at 10:19 AM 10-9-2009_

The website said it was looking for testers for both transverse and longitudinal. I believe most on here are of the transverse type though. Dont quote me on it though.


----------



## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: (Vee-Dubber-GLI)*

Where are these turbos made? Judging by the stamp on the compressor housing they are Chinese, same with the cover on the compressor outlet. Nothing wrong with Chinese products, borg warner makes K03's in china now, but they are at an automated facility, and the materials are spec'd by BW. What kind of power are these making, and what kind of balancing procedure is used in the manufacturing process?
*SS Autochrome*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...fa31b
*Frankenturbo:*
http://frankenturbo.com/F4h-t.html
*XS Power*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...366b0
They look similar, but franken turbo is 3-4 times the price, I'd be interested to see the results. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: (DeathKing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DeathKing* »_Are all the current testers using transverse kits?

We are definitely going to be producing a longitudal version. The first prototype will be coming in next week. We are going to need a tester for it, but I haven't really nailed down a candidate.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: (CTS Turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CTS Turbo* »_Where are these turbos made? Judging by the stamp on the compressor housing they are Chinese, same with the cover on the compressor outlet. Nothing wrong with Chinese products, borg warner makes K03's in china now, but they are at an automated facility, and the materials are spec'd by BW. 

*You are spot on. FrankenTurbos are assembled in China. Our site addresses that question and discusses how they relate to BW products also being assembled there.*

_Quote, originally posted by *CTS Turbo* »_What kind of power are these making, and what kind of balancing procedure is used in the manufacturing process?
*SS Autochrome*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...fa31b
*Frankenturbo:*
http://frankenturbo.com/F4h-t.html
*XS Power*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...366b0
They look similar, but franken turbo is 3-4 times the price, I'd be interested to see the results. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

*Really about the only thing shared among these three is that the Ebay products are made on the same continent. I don't even know what these two Ebay bad-boys are supposed to be. The ad claims K04-001 but the descriptions reference a K03 part number.*


----------



## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: (slappy_dunbar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappy_dunbar* »_
*You are spot on. FrankenTurbos are assembled in China. Our site addresses that question and discusses how they relate to BW products also being assembled there.*
*Really about the only thing shared among these three is that the Ebay products are made on the same continent. I don't even know what these two Ebay bad-boys are supposed to be. The ad claims K04-001 but the descriptions reference a K03 part number.*










There's nothing wrong with being made in china. All the Borg Warner turbos that are made in China are assembled by robots in an automated facility in an automated plant. So if these are assembled by the robots then all you have to worry about are the intricate inner workings of the turbos, thrust bearings, washers, hardness of materials, balancing and longevity.


----------



## NahRamp18t (Oct 6, 2008)

.....with that said....dyno!







)


----------



## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (NahRamp18t)*

Is this frankenturbo same size as this ? I don't mean to bash on the FT, I know it will be a better turbo than the ko4 or the ko3 but its a good turbo swap only if your stock turbo is going bad.. This turbo is 290HP, reliable and will last a long time with no worries by having 20psi to the red line.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (02GTi1.8TcT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *02GTi1.8TcT* »_Is this frankenturbo same size as this ? I don't mean to bash on the FT, I know it will be a better turbo than the ko4 or the ko3 but its a good turbo swap only if your stock turbo is going bad.. This turbo is 290HP, reliable and will last a long time with no worries by having 20psi to the red line.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Right..but you'll need that turbo, plus a t25 manifold, custom downpipe, custome inlet, oil and water lines, specific 28r flanges to actually hook up hoses to the compressor, etc...
I think there is a market for the frankenturbo....won't make as much power as a 28r..but it'll be way cheaper.
Hell, it's hard justifying a 28r....you have to buy all that hardware, and you end up with 270whp....might as well get a 50 trim for the same price and make 350+whp.


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_

Hell, it's hard justifying a 28r....you have to buy all that hardware, and you end up with 270whp....might as well get a 50 trim for *$400 less* and make 350+whp.
 

_Quote, originally posted by *02GTi1.8TcT* »_Is this frankenturbo same size as this ? This turbo is 290HP, reliable and will last a long time with no worries by having 20psi to the red line.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


were you just so excited to post pictures of your new turbo somewhere, that you would compare these two turbos in this thread, even though there is absolutely no relation between the two? 



_Modified by 5inchMAF at 12:13 PM 10-15-2009_


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (5inchMAF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *5inchMAF* »_ 
were you just so excited to post pictures of your new turbo somewhere, that you would compare these two turbos in this thread, even though there is absolutely no relation between the two?









Will I get the same results with this turbo ?


----------



## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (20aeman)*

I have everything that goes with the turbo. Its the APR stage 3, if you look harder you could see parts on the floor...


----------



## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (16plus4v)*

That is 1 big ass turbo...


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (02GTi1.8TcT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *02GTi1.8TcT* »_That is 1 big ass turbo...









I should do a k04 vs S366 picture lol


----------



## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: (16plus4v)*

so the eliminators arn't worth it? I got a awp in a rado, IE rods... I have the stock k03s on there, i'm getting a FMIC about 10 inches wide by 2 feet I think or so. I have the TT conversion DP from mk4 to mk2, no PS or A/C.
Now I dont want the world's fastest 1.8T or anything, but I did the rods while the motor was rebuilt. I was told by the builder its good to about 400 horse, pistons being the weak point of the motor now because they are stock (I was told they are forged from the factory, the builder said they were like hypercratic or whatever they call em) My goal was about 250 at the wheels, reliable. Which would be killer for a 2400 lb FWD car. 
I was all inclinded to get a bigger turbo - but I don't realy want to go through the hassle of needing a custom dp, custom this custom that just to run a bigger turbo.
My downpipe wasn't cheap and is either 3 inch or 2.5 I forget, I was all about getting the eliminator kit because it would be the less ammount of work and be perfect for my gains ya know. But as I read about all this the elimintors are suppose to be "unreliable" but the point of the matter is don't they still sell these eliminator kits? If they were a terrible product? Wouldn't people stop buying them? 
I was all about the GT2871R Elimintor? Would the eliminator be worth it or to go with one of thse modified k04's?
I got a stand alone so im good on the tuning end.


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoFuhrer* »_so the eliminators arn't worth it? I got a awp in a rado, IE rods... I have the stock k03s on there, i'm getting a FMIC about 10 inches wide by 2 feet I think or so. I have the TT conversion DP from mk4 to mk2, no PS or A/C.
Now I dont want the world's fastest 1.8T or anything, but I did the rods while the motor was rebuilt. I was told by the builder its good to about 400 horse, pistons being the weak point of the motor now because they are stock (I was told they are forged from the factory, the builder said they were like hypercratic or whatever they call em) My goal was about 250 at the wheels, reliable. Which would be killer for a 2400 lb FWD car. 
I was all inclinded to get a bigger turbo - but I don't realy want to go through the hassle of needing a custom dp, custom this custom that just to run a bigger turbo.
My downpipe wasn't cheap and is either 3 inch or 2.5 I forget, I was all about getting the eliminator kit because it would be the less ammount of work and be perfect for my gains ya know. But as I read about all this the elimintors are suppose to be "unreliable" but the point of the matter is don't they still sell these eliminator kits? If they were a terrible product? Wouldn't people stop buying them? 
I was all about the GT2871R Elimintor? Would the eliminator be worth it or to go with one of thse modified k04's?
I got a stand alone so im good on the tuning end. 


you should copy this post and put it in its own thread. i would contribute to it. id love to see some pics too!!!


----------



## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

Any updates on the k04-02X version?


----------



## DeathKing (Jun 20, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (5inchMAF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *5inchMAF* »_
you should copy this post and put it in its own thread. i would contribute to it. id love to see some pics too!!!

sadly someone would complain about anothe k04 thread


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: (CorradoFuhrer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoFuhrer* »_so the eliminators arn't worth it? I got a awp in a rado, IE rods... I have the stock k03s on there, i'm getting a FMIC about 10 inches wide by 2 feet I think or so. I have the TT conversion DP from mk4 to mk2, no PS or A/C.
Now I dont want the world's fastest 1.8T or anything, but I did the rods while the motor was rebuilt. I was told by the builder its good to about 400 horse, pistons being the weak point of the motor now because they are stock * (I was told they are forged from the factory, the builder said they were like hypercratic or whatever they call em) * My goal was about 250 at the wheels, reliable. Which would be killer for a 2400 lb FWD car. 
I was all inclinded to get a bigger turbo - but I don't realy want to go through the hassle of needing a custom dp, custom this custom that just to run a bigger turbo.
My downpipe wasn't cheap and is either 3 inch or 2.5 I forget, I was all about getting the eliminator kit because it would be the less ammount of work and be perfect for my gains ya know. But as I read about all this the elimintors are suppose to be "unreliable" but the point of the matter is don't they still sell these eliminator kits? If they were a terrible product? Wouldn't people stop buying them? 
I was all about the GT2871R Elimintor? Would the eliminator be worth it or to go with one of thse modified k04's?
I got a stand alone so im good on the tuning end. 


the factory pistons are most definitely a forged aluminum alloy from Mahle.
and never to my knowledge has anyone managed to break one. guys even over 700 hp have used stock pistons


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (coreyj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *coreyj* »_

the factory pistons are most definitely a forged aluminum alloy from Mahle.
and never to my knowledge has anyone managed to break one. guys even over 700 hp have used stock pistons 

I remember a guy breaking a ringland on one.....on a k04








But he was using an incorrectly flashed narrowband giac tune....


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## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (CorradoFuhrer)*

its sounds like you r getting most power from your stock turbo cos you know what you are doing..so u want 250whp, i would suggest you to try out this FrankenTurbo.. but for me, I rather spent 4k to get 270whp reliable on pump gas, with no worries and i will still beat them Hybrid turbos..to all tuners who has supersonic turbos [KO4]. Supersonic means too much air going in compresser causing it spinning way to fast..Shorten Its Life..oh u get what you pay for...









_Modified by 02GTi1.8TcT at 2:20 AM 10-16-2009_


_Modified by 02GTi1.8TcT at 10:54 AM 10-16-2009_


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (02GTi1.8TcT)*

If you only make 270whp after spending $4k you need your head examined. There are PLENTY of reliable 350whp BT setups that cost about $4k - the whole point of this hybrid is to get a cheap, bolt-on increase in power


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *02GTi1.8TcT* »_to all tuners who has supersonic turbos [KO4]. Supersonic means too much air going in compresser causing it spinning way to fast..Shorten Its Life..oh u get what you pay for...










wow.
you can overspin ANY turbo... even your "reliable" GT25


----------



## Sketchykid (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (5inchMAF)*

Does this turbo use the K-04 or the K-03 housings?


----------



## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

I got my head examined and I'm just fine, thanks. There are basically two different types of BT and I chose to go with the very first one for 1.8T that's been around and is known to be reliable. Now tell me if i got my head examined by looking at these three pictures..













_Modified by 02GTi1.8TcT at 3:46 PM 10-17-2009_


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

so what's wrong with the pictures?


----------



## RvGrnGTI (Apr 13, 2005)

*Re: (02GTi1.8TcT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *02GTi1.8TcT* »_its sounds like you r getting most power from your stock turbo cos you know what you are doing..so u want 250whp, i would suggest you to try out this FrankenTurbo.. but for me, I rather spent 4k to get 270whp reliable on pump gas, with no worries and i will still beat them Hybrid turbos..to all tuners who has supersonic turbos [KO4]. Supersonic means too much air going in compresser causing it spinning way to fast..Shorten Its Life..oh u get what you pay for...









_Modified by 02GTi1.8TcT at 2:20 AM 10-16-2009_

_Modified by 02GTi1.8TcT at 10:54 AM 10-16-2009_

QFT and GTFO http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

*Re: (RvGrnGTI)*

why is there always someone bashing k04's?
if this works out it'll net 250-270whp for under 1500 (including w/m). sorry but your apr kit just ripped you the **** off.
seriously gtfo of the thread unless you have something worth contributing. and pictures of your tiny ass big turbo arent worth it.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (burkechrs1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *burkechrs1* »_why is there always someone bashing k04's?
if this works out it'll net 250-270whp for under 1500 (including w/m). sorry but your apr kit just ripped you the **** off.


People bash them because people like you keep thinking you are going to make 250-275whp on them. THis turbo is no bigger than a 001 and the builder even stated that its smaller than a -20 and those people still dont make any more than 250whp. The other reason is that there is 0 powerband on these turbo. Sure, if you DO make 240-250whp, its for all of 200rpms if that. These turbos just cant flow that much air. If you are looking for 250-275whp, you are better off with a gt28r that has no real addition of lag and will make 250-275whp for 3k+ rpms instead of 200.


----------



## steve05ram360 (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
People bash them because people like you keep thinking you are going to make 250-275whp on them. THis turbo is no bigger than a 001 and the builder even stated that its smaller than a -20 and those people still dont make any more than 250whp. *The other reason is that there is 0 powerband on these turbo.* Sure, if you DO make 240-250whp, its for all of 200rpms if that. These turbos just cant flow that much air. If you are looking for 250-275whp, you are better off with a gt28r that has no real addition of lag and will make 250-275whp for 3k+ rpms instead of 200.
 
sure there is, it just isnt a gazillion hp like allot of you kids want.








some of us dont need a power band between 5~7k but prefer whatever can be obtained between 3~6k which is where my car lives 90% of the time I am driving it. if a k04 or hybrid puts it up some ponies in that area, I'm sure there would be many owners who'd be happy doing the swap.
ALL of the dyno's i've seen on the k04-01 show a bump in performance where I use my motor. who cares about 10 hp at 6500 rpm... it's the ease of the swap, less headaches & what happens in the 3~6k range. I think I saw a dyno that backs this up in the official K04-01 thread...


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (steve05ram360)*


_Quote, originally posted by *steve05ram360* »_ 
sure there is, it just isnt a gazillion hp like allot of you kids want.








some of us dont need a power band between 5~7k but prefer whatever can be obtained between 3~6k which is where my car lives 90% of the time I am driving it. if a k04 or hybrid puts it up some ponies in that area, I'm sure there would be many owners who'd be happy doing the swap.
ALL of the dyno's i've seen on the k04-01 show a bump in performance where I use my motor. who cares about 10 hp at 6500 rpm... it's the ease of the swap, less headaches & what happens in the 3~6k range. I think I saw a dyno that backs this up in the official K04-01 thread...

this is ALWAYS the pro-ko4 arguement. What i stated had 0 to do with the powerband in the 5-7k range. A 28r is making 20psi by 3k and will hold it till over 6k, how again is that NOT what you just posted?








Sorry if people with common sense would rather have a faster car with 250whp than a slow car with 250whp cause one has a powerband and the other does not. When a ko4 makes 250whp, its for a couple hundred rpms at best. Its over 220whp for MAYBE 1k rpms and the rest of the time its under 200whp. Peak isnt power. Its like someone running a gt4088r on a 7k rpms limit. Sure, it will make alot of power, but none of it will be useable since the power never levels off since you just hit the rev limit right after making peak power. Dont get whats so hard here.


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (02GTi1.8TcT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *02GTi1.8TcT* »_I got my head examined and I'm just fine, thanks. There are basically two different types of BT and I chose to go with the very first one for 1.8T that's been around and is known to be reliable. Now tell me if i got my head examined by looking at these three pictures..









Hey, its your money, I just don't get why you would spend the $4k on a k04 when you could get a turbo that is more efficient, makes more power, and has a lot more potential. I'd much rather take the time/effort/money and get 350whp with a fat powerband over 270whp with a powerband that looks like a road cone; to each their own...


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## Hawaii5-0 (Apr 10, 2007)

so i just spent half an hour reading this thread and still no numbers. people need to stop posting unrelated pics and worthless replies. K.I.S.S. keep it simple stupid!


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## steve05ram360 (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
this is ALWAYS the pro-ko4 arguement. What i stated had 0 to do with the powerband in the 5-7k range. A 28r is making 20psi by 3k and will hold it till over 6k, how again is that NOT what you just posted?








Sorry if people with common sense would rather have a faster car with 250whp than a slow car with 250whp cause one has a powerband and the other does not. When a ko4 makes 250whp, its for a couple hundred rpms at best. Its over 220whp for MAYBE 1k rpms and the rest of the time its under 200whp. Peak isnt power. Its like someone running a gt4088r on a 7k rpms limit. Sure, it will make alot of power, but none of it will be useable since the power never levels off since you just hit the rev limit right after making peak power. * Dont get whats so hard here. *









well it could be that most of us dont have 3k to drop on a BT setup... let alone having the thought n the back of the head that the rods could be an issue. I may have mentioned this before... if I were to plunk down 3k, it'd be a twin setup on the ram.
I think what you BT guys need to realize is that NOT EVERYONE wants to deal with a BT setup. Maybe there needs to be a BT forum & a LT forum


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (steve05ram360)*

so now you are telling me a turbo that makes ALL TQ is going to be safer on the rods at 250whp than a larger turbine turbo such as a 28r? Last time i checked, a 28r IS NOT a big turbo. Its smaller than many stock turbos. My car is making well over 300wtq on a ko3s and its out of gas well before 5k and is no fun to drive when im cruising and just as soon as i give it gas im out of the powerband. pushing a 215hp turbo to 250whp is beyond stupid. People pushing these turbos have 0 knowledge about usable powerbands.


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
People bash them because people like you keep thinking you are going to make 250-275whp on them. THis turbo is no bigger than a 001 and the builder even stated that its smaller than a -20 and those people still dont make any more than 250whp. The other reason is that there is 0 powerband on these turbo. Sure, if you DO make 240-250whp, its for all of 200rpms if that. These turbos just cant flow that much air. If you are looking for 250-275whp, you are better off with a gt28r that has no real addition of lag and will make 250-275whp for 3k+ rpms instead of 200.

this turbo was designed to have a longer power band. im not saying it will but if it works out the way they designed it to it'll have a much longer power band that a regular k04. 
and 250whp with meth is obtainable on a k04-001. i do beleive there are better turbos out there than a k04 but bragging because someone spent 5 grand on an apr stg3 kit only to gain 20 more whp than a turbo that cost 1/5th of that makes no sense to me.
but that is just my opinion.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (burkechrs1)*

This turbo WILL NOT have a noticable increase in the powerband than the orginal. Why? Because the size difference is tiny. The point im making is not "250whp is not obtainable," its that pushing this little turbo is stupid and there is no powerband (rpms at 250whp or even 220whp).
This also has NOTHING to do with APR. You can build a 28r kit for not much more than what people are investing in a ko4 setup (injectors, tune, wmi, etc). Its also going to be far safer on your rods than a 240whp turbo thats also making 280+ wtq before 4k. Go look at dynos of people running a 28r and you will see that they are in the 270whp or more on stock everything else and making that power for over 3k rpms where a ko4 isnt over 200whp for 3k rpms. A 28r vs a k04 at the same peak whp in a race, the 28r will walk them everytime.
This is just a replacement turbo, NOT AN UPGRADE


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_This turbo WILL NOT have a noticable increase in the powerband than the orginal. Why? Because the size difference is tiny. The point im making is not "250whp is not obtainable," its that pushing this little turbo is stupid and there is no powerband (rpms at 250whp or even 220whp).
This also has NOTHING to do with APR. You can build a 28r kit for not much more than what people are investing in a ko4 setup (injectors, tune, wmi, etc). Its also going to be far safer on your rods than a 240whp turbo thats also making 280+ wtq before 4k. Go look at dynos of people running a 28r and you will see that they are in the 270whp or more on stock everything else and making that power for over 3k rpms where a ko4 isnt over 200whp for 3k rpms. A 28r vs a k04 at the same peak whp in a race, the 28r will walk them everytime.
This is just a replacement turbo, NOT AN UPGRADE


i just lol'd cuz its so tru


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## steve05ram360 (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*

so you guys are going to tell me that the estimated 7 psi of boost at 5000 rpm indicated by this dyno plot will not provide a noticeable bump in power?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steve05ram360)*

not nearly as much as you think. The temps coming out of the turbo are insane along with forcing the turbo to hold the psi is just making it die sooner. I wouldnt be surprised if the wastegate was cranked also. Nothing like overspinning the turbo and choking out the turbine and calling it power.
so riddle me this batman, what turbo would you rather have making 22psi at 3k. 28r or ko4? The 28r will be making more whp, wtq and still be making it for another 1k after the ko4 has fallen on its face. Still dont know why people fight the truth


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## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (20aeman)*

there is nothing wrong with them pictures. the last pic of BT, it isn't reliable, it shows a custom turbo kit...{rods, intake manifold, eurodyne tuning..Not a daily driven car...BIG HP, I just want a kit that I can start my car and not have to worry about anything knowing I got 270WHP for the next 5 years! If thats isnt enough for yall, then get apr stage 3+.


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*FV-QR*

yeah, what he said.
also, for those of you insisting this turbo will have some broad powerband, the much bigger k04-02x has a weak powerband. this is smaller than even the k04-02x.
i can see using this if you just love some TQ super low in the power band, you never rev over 4K, and your K03 just died....
id like to some some dyon #s AND some logs...


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## steve05ram360 (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_not nearly as much as you think. The temps coming out of the turbo are insane along with forcing the turbo to hold the psi is just making it die sooner. I wouldnt be surprised if the wastegate was cranked also. Nothing like overspinning the turbo and choking out the turbine and calling it power.
so riddle me this batman, what turbo would you rather have making 22psi at 3k. 28r or ko4? The 28r will be making more whp, wtq and still be making it for another 1k after the ko4 has fallen on its face. Still dont know why people fight the truth










I'd be happy to have it at 20 psi going thru a good fmic, but you do make a good point with the heat. to answer your question, a gt28r eliminator kit, again for its ease of install & the smog nazi's here in cali.


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_not nearly as much as you think. The temps coming out of the turbo are insane along with forcing the turbo to hold the psi is just making it die sooner. I wouldnt be surprised if the wastegate was cranked also. Nothing like overspinning the turbo and choking out the turbine and calling it power.
so riddle me this batman, what turbo would you rather have making 22psi at 3k. 28r or ko4? The 28r will be making more whp, wtq and still be making it for another 1k after the ko4 has fallen on its face. Still dont know why people fight the truth









what do you think of the 28RS eliminator the? (I'm not looking for over 300whp, and IM looking for ease of installation that's why I'm asking)


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Volksdude27* »_
what do you think of the 28RS eliminator the? (*IM looking for ease of installation that's why I'm asking)*



Then NEVER buy ANYTHING ATP has to offer!!!! the Elim stuff for a transverse motor is EVERY bit as time consuming as any BT kit.... same amount of money too....


_Modified by 5inchMAF at 9:47 AM 10-18-2009_


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *steve05ram360* »_so you guys are going to tell me that the estimated 7 psi of boost at 5000 rpm indicated by this dyno plot will not provide a noticeable bump in power?












your modifications arent concistant to botho dyno runos you need to have the exact same mods and just switch out the turbo to compare the dynos if youre gonna play that card... when i stil had my k03 with revo stg 2 3 inch TB exhaust fmic TIP 4 bar fpr i was spiking 24 psi and hold 20psi all day long

_Quote, originally posted by *5inchMAF* »_

Then NEVER buy ANYTHING ATP has to offer!!!! the Elim stuff for a transverse motor is EVERY bit as time consuming as any BT kit.... same amount of money too....



the eliminator kits were originally designed for rhd dubs because the way the steering was.. they are just as constricting as a ko3 ko4 or this frankenturbo garbage.. if you want more power you need to move a bigger mass of air into the engine and with these turbo you just cant do it with the sizes of both the hot and cold side holes.... think of it like this take a hose and put a hose clamp on it and tighten it reall tight and when you turn the water on once it hits that hose clamp its going to stop and right after the hose clamp it may be spraying out kinda fast but you arent moving all the water you can.. thats how these turbos work in idiots terms... now you take that hose clamp off you can crank up the water and move more water through the hose .... simple as that with bigger the holes on these turbo the more you can move and when you are keeping the stock sizes its not going to do isht


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## steve05ram360 (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_
your modifications arent concistant to botho dyno runos you need to have the exact same mods and just switch out the turbo to compare the dynos if youre gonna play that card... when i stil had my k03 with revo stg 2 3 inch TB exhaust fmic TIP 4 bar fpr i was spiking 24 psi and hold 20psi all day long 


the important parts are all the same... 3"dp, K&N air. You guys all say the inlet pipe does nothing so that is tossed out, and the the smic is most likely going to have a bigger drop in pressure than the stocker simply because its got more volume (not 100% sure but it's my guess). Water injection, what is that going to do to your boost level? that graph is comparing k03s boost vs k04-01 boost... it shows ~ 7 psi delta at 5k.
If you really want to know what a mod is going to do, strip it back down as close to stock as you can and test a heat soaked motor before & after with 3 runs each run back to back, average the numbers and there you have the gains. testing under worst case conditions... it is the only way your going to get any meaningful data because all the 1.8t's start out basically the same. toss all the other mods on there for an overall bump and then measure your output.


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## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

U midunderstood, I spent 4K on APR stage 3 not on a KO4..


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (02GTi1.8TcT)*

oic didn't see that...why did you respond to me about what I said then? Spending $4k on an APR kit I understand


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steve05ram360)*


_Quote, originally posted by *steve05ram360* »_

and the the smic is most likely going to have a bigger drop in pressure than the stocker simply because its got more volume (not 100% sure but it's my guess). 


your guess would be wrong. Go look inside a stock smic and you can see why they suck. Its beyond restrictive. The BF initial launch they tested it had no pressure drop and the stock has 2psi


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (cincyTT)*

Funny thread.....


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## RvGrnGTI (Apr 13, 2005)

*Re: (02GTi1.8TcT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *02GTi1.8TcT* »_U midunderstood, I spent 4K on APR stage 3 not on a KO4..


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## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (cincyTT)*

speaking of smic, I took off the eurojet fmic using the ko3s, I notice I spike a lil more and hold couple more pounds of boost to the red line... Aftermarket FMIC for those little tiny ass turbo sucks.. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif My GLi is a lil faster and runs smoother with the stock smic... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 04VDubGLI (May 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (02GTi1.8TcT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *02GTi1.8TcT* »_speaking of smic, I took off the eurojet fmic using the ko3s, I notice I spike a lil more and hold couple more pounds of boost to the red line... Aftermarket FMIC for those little tiny ass turbo sucks.. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif My GLi is a lil faster and runs smoother with the stock smic... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

There's definitely more pressure drop across the FMIC than a stock side mount - not to mention the difference in piping length. However, the SMIC will 100% of the time heat soak after a couple gear pull. It may be "faster" feeling with it in there, but it's probably about the same just with slightly faster boost delivery. However, go do a couple of back to back pulls and it'll be slower w/stock SMIC. Plus this time of year does sort of help the car to feel faster... and keep the stock SMIC from heat soaking as quickly. Summer is a better gauge of performance for those things.


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## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (04VDubGLI)*

u do have a good point. maybe lucky me I live out east.. right now its 40 degrees outside and IM pretty sure my turbo is getting cold air..there always an aftermarket smic..shorter the piping the better it is..


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

any airflow logs from this thing yet?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: (badger5)*

We are getting very close: Unitronic is getting their prototype in a couple of days. Good news is that this final design has a test version of a two-coat ceramic thermal coating on the manifold and turbine housing. Since Unitronic has the ability to log EGTs we'll see good data on what the turbo is generating.
Of course their brand new Mustang AWD dyno is of real interest too. Heh.


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## [email protected] (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: (slappy_dunbar)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*FV-QR*

cincy makes a good point about powerbands, the ko(x) is like having sex without the climax...it starts out great but in the end, you're left wanting more. I have seen so many of these "bolt on turbo upgrades" thru the years, from the og 001, the super ko4 to the eo5. there was so much speculation on results that none ever lived up to the hype. they are the extenze of the bolt ons, useless. actually, they seemed to have a strong placebo effect on the famous and ever inaccurate "butt dyno" but on the real thing....not so much.
if you're happy with your cars performance and need a replacement this could possibly be a good option (pending testing) that might even add some extra power, but i have to smile on the inside when people start talking about $600+ sw & injectors and/or bolting on $850 intake manifolds w/ $400 w/m systems. 
how many people that say big turbo's (apparently anything bigger then a ko3s is considered a big turbo) are not for them have ever driven one? just because your not fully spooled by 3k does not mean that you are not making power. there is an important factor besides boost called flow (ex i'll race you filling up a pool, i'll use a fire hose at 10 psi you can have a garden hose at 20 psi (but only a spike then it will drop down to 14)). my 50 trim is faster everywhere even off my wastegate (14psi) and driveability has been greatly increased because i have a much more linear powerband and can easily modulate its delivery. you should really do your research before you spend your hard earned $$$, there is tons of info in the archives. check out dynos of different setups and observe not just peak #'s but the area under the curve. some people aren't here to just argue and hear themselves type, they have spent $$$ trying different setups and know not only what works, but also if it's worth it.


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## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (the awesome)*

If you are a KO3s tuner, and if you just wanna spend a grand or less on an replacement turbo, you will notice the difference. Just get the Ko4 file and keep your stock parts..NO w/m, aftermarket manifold,injectors or 3 inch maf..its a waste of time and money {reliable} unless you will go bigger turbo and u better pray that your 250whp hybrid ko4 didn't kill your motor..


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## tommypommy (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (02GTi1.8TcT)*

this is just pages of Yes but.. No but.. 
The turbo is a cheap upgrade for people with little time, money or knowledge, as someone said with the fire hose example having a turbo flow 20psi through a tiny housing is worthless, the K03 and Ko4 are restrictive
Im not knocking this turbo i am really interested, however, this thread could be 50 pages long, just wait until the figures arrive.


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (tommypommy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tommypommy* »_this is just pages of Yes but.. No but.. 
The turbo is a cheap upgrade for people with little time, money or knowledge, as someone said with the fire hose example having a turbo flow 20psi through a tiny housing is worthless, the K03 and Ko4 are restrictive
Im not knocking this turbo i am really interested, however, this thread could be 50 pages long, just wait until the figures arrive.









words of wisdom http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## novtec_1 (Jan 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Volksdude27)*

IN4#'s


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## Rubberband (Sep 28, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

I had a neuspeed super k04 on my jetta for about three or four years. It is basically the same principal as this new one. It was the k04 housing but the compressor inlet side was machined to get a larger wheel in there. I loved that thing, sounded like a freaking jet turbine when it spooled up, was reliable and served me well for all those years. 
I first was chipped on two different software types (1.1bar and 1.3 bar) on the stock k03s. By the time I got this kit, I already had all of the bolt ons you could do with the stock turbo. It was nice to just bolt it up, put in some 380cc injectors and the tune and run with it. This made about 230-240 whp on the dyno but the torque was almost 300. Great all around driver with a ton of low end grunt. I do agree with cincytt though, it was a peaky power band that ran outta breath quick. definitely not a drag racing type of power band I am just sayin that this type of setup worked well for a dd/freeway flyer. I bet you that the sk04 software would work with this turbo too. boost spike was 23-24 and held at around 20 and tapered off from there.
I am glad to see that someone is filling the gap between the full blown BT and the k04. I think frankenturbo will have a nice piece of the pie if this is a success.


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## dtcaward (May 10, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Rubberband)*

dyno numbers







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DH Photography (Sep 9, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (dtcaward)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dtcaward* »_ dyno numbers







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









Chill out and read the posts, they're coming once the proto is loaded.


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## steve05ram360 (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Rubberband)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rubberband* »_I had a neuspeed super k04 on my jetta for about three or four years. It is basically the same principal as this new one. It was the k04 housing but the compressor inlet side was machined to get a larger wheel in there. I loved that thing, sounded like a freaking jet turbine when it spooled up, was reliable and served me well for all those years. 
I first was chipped on two different software types (1.1bar and 1.3 bar) on the stock k03s. By the time I got this kit, I already had all of the bolt ons you could do with the stock turbo. It was nice to just bolt it up, put in some 380cc injectors and the tune and run with it. This made about 230-240 whp on the dyno but the torque was almost 300. Great all around driver with a ton of low end grunt. I do agree with cincytt though, it was a peaky power band that ran outta breath quick. definitely not a drag racing type of power band I am just sayin that this type of setup worked well for a dd/freeway flyer. I bet you that the sk04 software would work with this turbo too. boost spike was 23-24 and held at around 20 and tapered off from there.


Nice, thanks for putting this up, some positive feedback from an actual owner. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (steve05ram360)*

again.....dyno or the product is a bust.

this has been out for awhile now and owners have had it on their car for awhile.

When I went to my 30r years upon years ago....it was on the dyno a week after getting built.
The TT will be following the same trend and will be getting two seperate tunes while on the dyno.
Dyno time will be my christmas present as a combination from about 5 different people.....which all will probably still cry once the bill comes out.


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## 02GTi1.8TcT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (AudiTToR)*

still no dyno ??? 250whp ????


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## DeathKing (Jun 20, 2008)

One was dynoed at ~235whp on APR k04 software. Look around man.


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