# Routan is garbage.



## VAGMeister (Sep 7, 2005)

Hey guys, 
I was recently invited to a research group for the new VW Routan. I dont know if anyone else has been in one, but in my opinion, it is a pile of crap. I know everything there is shared with the Chrysler and it shows. The interior quality is typically American, with cheap accents everywhere. I do not know why VW is making this van. It will kill their good reputation for interior quality. Overall, if you appreciate anything VW has to offer you will most likely hate this van. just my $.02


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (VAGMeister)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VAGMeister* »_Hey guys, 
I was recently invited to a research group for the new VW Routan. I dont know if anyone else has been in one, but in my opinion, it is a pile of crap. I know everything there is shared with the Chrysler and it shows. The interior quality is typically American, with cheap accents everywhere. I do not know why VW is making this van. It will kill their good reputation for interior quality. Overall, if you appreciate anything VW has to offer you will most likely hate this van. just my $.02

Thanks for the info. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I guess I won't be considering the Routan afterall.


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## vwbugstuff (Mar 27, 2004)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (jsmyle1%@vw)*

jsmyle,
You should probably hold off your disappointment until you sit in one yourself. Personally, I disagree with vagmeister.
I think people need to realize that the Routans that are on the show circuit are not the absolute 100% finalized finished products. They were put together for the Chicago debut. I asked about opening the hood to see the engine and I was politely refused, probably because all the components had Chrysler ID's instead of VW stickers and such.
I thought the interior materials and finish were up to par or slightly nicer than our Eurovan, but that might be comparing apples & oranges.


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (vwbugstuff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwbugstuff* »_jsmyle,
You should probably hold off your disappointment until you sit in one yourself. Personally, I disagree with vagmeister..... 






























No worries. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif When I responded to _VAGmeister_, I wasn't anywhere _close_ to being serious. At 18 years his senior, I'm relatively selective in where I seek advice.








My response should have had a bunch of these







, but I chose not to.








The competitveness (or lack thereof) of the lease program appears to be the only issue that will determine whether another Odyssey will reside in my driveway versus the Routan.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (VAGMeister)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VAGMeister* »_Hey guys, 
I was recently invited to a research group for the new VW Routan. I dont know if anyone else has been in one, but in my opinion, it is a pile of crap. I know everything there is shared with the Chrysler and it shows. The interior quality is typically American, with cheap accents everywhere. I do not know why VW is making this van. It will kill their good reputation for interior quality. Overall, if you appreciate anything VW has to offer you will most likely hate this van. just my $.02


Let's see... you're 20 years old (according to your profile) --- completely not the demographic VW is going for with this vehicle.
I don't know your history, but anyone who posts in "absolutes" such as you have, I'm highly suspect. But, that's just me.


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## VAGMeister (Sep 7, 2005)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_

Let's see... you're 20 years old (according to your profile) --- completely not the demographic VW is going for with this vehicle.
I don't know your history, but anyone who posts in "absolutes" such as you have, I'm highly suspect. But, that's just me.

Well, I will admit my history is pretty short, but I have been around a lot of cars, especially German cars. I've been working at an Audi dealer since I was 17, been to two Audi factories (Ingolstadt & Neckarsulm) and have seen first hand what it takes to build these cars, have friends who are egineers for Audi in Germany, and I am on my third VW. Needless to say I have come to appreciated the VW/Audi group and their cars, mainly because of their wonderful build quality (which can be said for the other German automakers). I did not see the same build quality in the Routan as I do in other VWs built in Europe or Mexico. Check it out for yourself when they are at the dealers. Tap on the dash, feel the leather, use the controls and decide for yourself if the Routan feels like a VW. Although the exterior is quite nice, I doubt you will be impressed with the build quality.


_Modified by VAGMeister at 10:46 PM 3-9-2008_


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## MontoyaF1 (Apr 6, 2004)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (VAGMeister)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VAGMeister* »_The interior quality is typically American, with cheap accents everywhere. I do not know why VW is making this van. It will kill their good reputation for interior quality. 

I have a MkIV GTI, and I've sat in the MkV Jetta and GTI and I have to say that the quality of the interior plastics has gone down on those vehicles, so I can't imagine the Routan being solely responsible for ruining VW's reputation for interior quality.
On the plus side, parts should be cheaper for the Routan than other German vehicles and I bet there are many independant shops that can work on them since it is all Chrysler mechanicals. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Conejo GTI (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (VAGMeister)*

Well I went to check out the Town and country to get an idea for what the Routan Will be like and I think that while it is not a VW type environment it is defenaly at the top of the class


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## emPoWaH (Sep 21, 2001)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (Conejo GTI)*

The Routan's interior is much nicer than the T&C's... better materials, better graining, nice stitching, nice leather door inserts, more pleasing shapes, more ergonomic A/C vents, unique knobs and door handles, etc. Frankly all minivans use hard plastics inside; there's not a single soft-touch "rubberized" surface on our Odyssey.
Here's how they compare...
















Quite a world of difference..


_Modified by emPoWaH at 7:23 AM 3-12-2008_


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## emPoWaH (Sep 21, 2001)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (MontoyaF1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MontoyaF1* »_
I have a MkIV GTI, and I've sat in the MkV Jetta and GTI and I have to say that the quality of the interior plastics has gone down on those vehicles, so I can't imagine the Routan being solely responsible for ruining VW's reputation for interior quality.
On the plus side, parts should be cheaper for the Routan than other German vehicles and I bet there are many independant shops that can work on them since it is all Chrysler mechanicals. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Meh, I actually think the MKV's are better, but then of course, I have an MK4-Golf-era Passat with a bubbly dash, creaky door panels, dash rattles, and broken radio knobs. The MKVs seem much better assembled, even comparing new to new.


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## Saintor (Dec 28, 2003)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (emPoWaH)*

Nolstalgy.... guess what; the quality of the new Routan is probably 10x better than the Vanagon of yore.
I prefer the Chrysler dash to what I seee above....


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## Joaquin (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (TREGinginCO)*

I agree with moderator comments, I own a 2008 Passat V6 and 2006 T&C limited, IMO both are great cars, but in terms of quality I have to say that the T&C is better than the Passat, the T&C never has a problem and the Passat has two stays at dealer because quality issues, in the other hand if you have kids, you have different opinion
Any way lets see when the Routan arrives to the dealers
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## KevinC (Feb 16, 1999)

Here's what _thetruthaboutcars.com_ says about the Routan today.. wooo boy!
_What looks like a Chrysler, smells like a Chrysler, and has Plastech plastics like a Chrysler? It's the VW Routan minivan, a sad rebadge job that would make the boys at The Buslab, a Berkeley California VW bus specialist, cringe into their bean bag chairs. It looks like a giant bloated Chrysler minivan in person, and what's worse is that VW's hallmark high quality interiors go out the window in favor of a hallmark Chrysler interior. They've added buckets of chrome and it doesn't do any good whatsoever. The engine and transmission are also from Chrysler, so don't go expecting VW's 3.6 liter V6 or anything. I don't have much left to say except that it's an abomination._
Gotta agree 100%. This is yet another completely mindless boondoggle by the clowns running VW nowadays.


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## Corradokcid (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: (KevinC)*

.....whats wrong with chryslers???and why are you guys soo butt hurt over this??? this isnt the first time VW and chrysler teamed up on a vehicle......chrystler is by far the best american automobile builder we have....you guys act like VW's are reliable or somthing.....i love VW's but i personally thing they over engineer the vehicles and thats what makes them unreliable


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (Corradokcid)*

Well said. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sirAQUAMAN64 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (Corradokcid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Corradokcid* »_chrystler is by far the best american automobile builder we have....

The WORST. GM and Ford are ahead by a mile and a half.
That said, don't think the Routan turned out THAT bad. Certainly could have been worse.


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## KevinC (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (sirAQUAMAN64)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sirAQUAMAN64* »_
That said, don't think the Routan turned out THAT bad. Certainly could have been worse.

How is that possible? It's a big steaming pile as it is. Absolutely incredible that VW would want to attempt to sell such a turd. Then again, as inept as their upper management is/has been the past few years, I suppose we shouldn't be surprised at all.


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## singh073 (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (VAGMeister)*

Its garbage. I am so amazed that VW would take this risk. Its basically a Chrysler with VW badges and accents. 
Why would VW go this route I am amazed. I would buy a Honda Odyssey any day over this. Atleast I know I am getting something solid.
Amazing.


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## dking28 (Mar 20, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (singh073)*

Indeed!! The routan has Chrysler all over it...the HVAC control, headlight switch, Stereo, cheeseball gauges, bumpy seats... 
Unfortunately i think it's all VW can afford to make here in the US. It's probably not worth the little bit of profit they _might_ make if they brought over some of the other vans they produce for Europe..Touran, Sharan..The BIG Crafter. I've still got goosebumps that we even got the Tiguan!







(even though not diesel yet.)
In the end hopefully the new factory in Tennessee will give us some additional _authentic_ Volkswagen models.


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## Trixy (Jan 19, 2006)

*Re: (Corradokcid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Corradokcid* »_.....whats wrong with Chryslers???and why are you guys soo butt hurt over this??? this isnt the first time VW and chrysler teamed up on a vehicle......chrystler is by far the best american automobile builder we have....you guys act like VW's are reliable or somthing.....i love VW's but i personally thing they over engineer the vehicles and thats what makes them unreliable 

I wonder how many of these people ever owned or driven a Chrysler product? I only wish Chrysler would return to being the world's #1 in building turbo cars







.


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## Corradokcid (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: (Trixy)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dking28 (Mar 20, 2006)

*Re: (Corradokcid)*

I personnally have had two. a startus v6 stratus w/"auto-stink", and a neon. The stratus was ok....except for the floppy suspension and horrible auto-stink. Neon...well need I say more.? 
My mom has had two of the minivans. I've driven cargo vans with smoother suspensions. Btw the way...doesn't mitsubishi still make a bunch of their engines for them?


_Modified by dking28 at 12:00 PM 7-21-2008_


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## vidmanky (Jun 24, 2007)

*Re: (dking28)*

i have a 2008 Odyssey EX-L, and while it has a silky smooth drivetrain, it is a pos otherwise.
Rattles, noisy, cheap interior, and way overpriced for the limited features it comes with.
the interior of this ChrysWagon, looks miles ahead of the Odyssey in terms of materials.
give me the Honda drivetrain with this interior.


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## Iknowsecrets (Jun 7, 2008)

Funny thing about this post is all the complaints on the interior of the vehicle, and this is the area that VW took over. Its there design and there materials. Bumpy suspension is all VW not Chrysler. The T&C ride is by far softer then the Routan. As far as Chryslers quality goes I would like to know what you are basing there horrible quality on. Cheap interior panels? If so ok but thank Daimler for that one. But I am sure you arent talking about powertrains especially if you own a VW lmao. I have driven both vehicles for quite sometime and the Routan and T&C are pretty decent vans.


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## 1979GTI16V (Sep 22, 2001)

*Re: (Iknowsecrets)*

one word "pushrods"....haven't seen those in a VW (in the US) in about 16 years







those engine options are JUNK! VW makes more ponies out of a 2.0T


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## StallisVW (Apr 19, 2006)

*Re: (sirAQUAMAN64)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sirAQUAMAN64* »_
The WORST. GM and Ford are ahead by a mile and a half.


not true
Chrysler is up next to Toyota now, Toyota has fallen over the last year. They are both on top of quality side of things.
Chrysler has a horrible past but at this point they are doing extremely well.
I think it's good Chrysler is making the mini van, as well as chrysler still sharing stuff with nissan, it's good for the american market
i trust Chrysler with our VW's more so then Ford and GM


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## vwetzalgd (May 30, 2007)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (VAGMeister)*

VAGmeister, i think i would have to agree with you because my carpool people have the new chrysler van and it sucks and they say so too. Soo many squakes and rattles its not even funnny.It has a lot of problems.


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## Downshift #2 (Sep 17, 2004)

_Quote, originally posted by *Turbiodiesel!* »_
There's not much that the Germans do any better than anybody else these days; Volkswagen produces some excellent cars, but they're not pushing the envelope, and while they do a few things exceptionally well, they're not any more exceptional than any other automaker. Certainly not to a degree that justifies lazy brand chauvinism.

_Modified by Turbiodiesel! at 7:06 AM 8-15-2008_

I think the point that the "Pro" Chrysler Routan clan seems to miss is the simple fact that we buy VW because it is a VW and not a Chrysler or any other make. 
This vehicle does not have the VW touch and feel that makes us love them so much. And Yes the INTERIOR is extremely important, it's where we spend 95% of our time with our car. 
For example, the interior backlit guages in blue/purple and red vs. american black and blue, leather vs plastic immitation leather, soft touch dash boards, VW Red backlit window buttons, door panel materials, push button parking brake,
even the windsheild wiper controls are American, the HVAC unit is 100% Chrysler as well. 
For those of you with the argument that it's a minivan and doesn't need all the bells and whistles, then let's compare this to the least expensive VW in production, the Rabbit.
The Rabbit has the following that make it a VW.
Here we see the Blue & Red Backlit instruments, the VW Blue & Red backlit HVAC Controls, the VW Stereo with MP3 & iPod, A VW KEY, Soft Touch Dash, Red Backlit Window Buttons, Red Backlit Tech Cluster (MPG, Range, Trip Time, etc), 








These are the things that make Americans want to buy a VW.
It's why my wife has bought VW since she was 16 with her first car to her Passat now. We Buy VW because it is unique, distinct, and different from other car manufacturers.
I doubt we'll see commercials featuring the Classic Bug (that represents VW Heritage) for the Routan.
And another thing. Why would you support anything other than VW?
I've noticed people in the car lounge talking about a Ford Focus for crying out loud!!








In the IS300.net & Bimmerpost Forums, you would be laughed out of a thread for even considering a post about another vehicle. This is VWVortex, not ChryslerVortex or Focus-O-rama.com 
Where's the brand loyalty here people?








What's Wrong With You? 
The idea is that we buy a Volkswagen because it is distinctly, Volkswagen, German Engineered, and fun to drive.
So, yes, prior to my even test driving it, and touching it, based on the pictures that I have downloaded, and stared at for hours, I have tried so very hard to get excited about the Routan and overlook these things. Yet I can't bring myself to a state of excitement. It may be different when I test drive it, I'm really hoping so.










_Modified by Downshift #2 at 10:22 PM 8-15-2008_


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (Downshift #2)*

You are very passionate about VW and it shows.
You won't get an argument out of me with regard to why "we" like German cars.
If I may put in my own .02 though.....

_Quote, originally posted by *Downshift #2* »_.....
The Rabbit has the following that make it a VW.
Here we see the Blue & Red Backlit instruments, the VW Blue & Red backlit HVAC Controls, the VW Stereo with MP# & iPod, A VW KEY, Soft Touch Dash, Red Backlit Window Buttons, Red Backlit Tech Cluster (*MPG, Range, Trip Time*, etc), ..... 

Which Rabbit?

_Quote, originally posted by *Downshift #2* »_For those of you with the argument that it's a minivan and doesn't need all the *bells and whistles*..... 

Which VW currently has available from the factory the following:
- comfortable seating for more than 5
- accommodations for 2 car seats AND luggage AND....let's say 3 adults
- rear-seat entertainment of any kind (_whistle_)
- Bluetooth (_bell_)
- USB connection (_whistle_)
- remote start (_bell_)
- power adjustable pedals (_whistle_) 
On a side note, we certainly don't need to guess what your two favorite colors are!!


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (jsmyle1%@vw)*

It sure got quiet all of a sudden.....


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## Beakersloco (Oct 10, 2005)

Give VW a break. This allowed them to get a Mini-van on the market sooner instead of latter.
I for one like to make up my own mind about things as I have heard people say they dont like this or that about a brand of car or that they would rather pay to fix a chevy then drive a ford or vice versa and for some reason these companies have managed to stay around despite the people who say they will never own a ford or own a chevy. The companies must be doing something right. 
While I have always heard that Dodge and Chrysler cars are great for the first 50,000 miles they they are junk, VW must have seen something in them that made them choose to rebadge and use their vehicle as a base for there own mini-van. Check it out for yourself before listening to others badmouth it simply because its a hybrid of sorts part VW and part Chrysler.
VW is not the first car manufacturer to do this (take a competitors car and re badge it to get into a particular type of vehicle niche market) I just cant seem to remember who else did it. 
My wife does not like the T&C and she wants a Honda Oddessy .. I sent her some pictures of this and it will be interesting to see if she likes it. 
My only concern will be is that I have always heard that Dodges and Chrysler per say go to crap after 50,000 or so miles. Since this does have a Chrysler powerplant will it hold up or in 5-6 years will I be wishing I had waited untill the van was all VW ?
Think of it like this it like if no one buys it will VW simply endure and work to make it a full VW design or will they simply can the project ?
In my opinion with what they have been doing with the Tiguan and the Touareq you would think that they would simply stretch the frame and use the same exterior to start with and then redesign the interior. It would not surprise me if this simply is a ploy to allow them to tool up and get thier own factory setup here in the states. Then use the profits from sales of the van to build a new factory somewhere. 
But on the plus side you will more then likely be able to get the early models serviced at Chrysler dealerships. 




_Modified by Beakersloco at 4:16 AM 9-19-2008_


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

A couple of general comments:
1) Only the 3.8 liter V6 is a pushrod OHV design, the 4.0 liter V6 has a SOHC per cylinder bank.
2) As for these engines being junk, too funny, the 3.8 has a long history of being able to go _hundreds of thousands of miles_ with only basic maintenance.
3) While the 4.0 is a "new" engine, it is based upon the venerable 3.8, and other than the fact that it uses a timing belt to actuate the two cams (instead of a timing chain to drive the single cam of the 3.8), I have little doubt that this engine is good for an easy quarter of a million miles.
4) We currently have two Dodge Grand Caravans, both purchased new, and both have well over 100,000 miles on the clock, in fact, their combined mileage is nearly 300,000.
5) While both vans were able to achieve the old EPA ratings for fuel economy when new, the MPGs that they deliver is still improving even after so many miles. Not too shabby.
6) The single "repair" that either engine has needed over the years was the starter on our older one. It's a Nippon Denso unit found in cars produced by manufacturers from al over the world, and the original one failed at about 115,000 miles.
7) I'm on a couple of minivan boards, and the most miles I've seen a 3.8 liter engine achieve with no engine work (other than tune-ups and oil and filter changes) is something over 400,000 miles..., and counting.


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## Beakersloco (Oct 10, 2005)

Well my wife doesnt like it the way it looks so I doubt we will be getting one.


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## penclnck (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (VAGMeister)*

I've gone though my Routan training and I'm not impressed. They are nothing like VWs because, well, they are not VWs. The interior has a cheap feel to it, it just isn't a VW interior. 
Every one in the class I was in felt like this thing is going to be a failure. As a VW rep told me a few months ago, "we are just going to smile until the contract is up."
During class, we priced out a fully loaded Routan and Town & Country on the web sites and the Routan came up $3700 more but doesn't have the middle seats that store into the floor or the satellite TV package. There is the lack of a "lifetime" warranty and then the carefree maintenance covers oil changes every 6K miles but oil changes are due every 3K miles, gonna be some ticked off customers first time they go to the dealer for that "free oil change".
I think we will soon see a photo of the Routan with "EPIC FAIL" along the bottom.


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (dking28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dking28* »_Indeed!! The routan has Chrysler all over it...the HVAC control, headlight switch, Stereo, cheeseball gauges, *bumpy seats...*

the seat foam is actually VW. along with shock absorbers.


_Modified by acincys at 9:44 PM 9-29-2008_


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## TRUEBELIEVER (Apr 7, 2005)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (acincys)*

Their are actually more vw parts on the routan then you may think. Granted it does have the chrysler engines and whatnot but overall its not that bad for a minivan. I was preaching blasphemy at the dealership but once we got a couple in and i actually got to toy around with them i changed my opinion a little. The 4.0 motor is a bastard to work on the way its crammed in and with its giant intake manifold but the 3.8 is a nice and opened up engine bay. Anyone who buys one and likes to work on their own car will probably like this if they purchase the 3.8 routan. Overall though its not that bad everybody. Its not like this is crossing the line with what the 2 manufactures are doing. Companies have been cross swapping motors and ideas forever in the car industry.
Have you ever looked under the hood of certain old Dodge Omnis? Its a rabbit motor, end of story.
On the upside, this is probably the only vw right now that you can haul around a ton of crap in.


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (TRUEBELIEVER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TRUEBELIEVER* »_...Anyone who buys one and likes to work on their own car will probably like this if they purchase the 3.8 routan.

you're right... the 3.8 engine bay does have a lot of room. for two turbos








also, for those who will work on their own Routan, as long as they have a lot of black duct tape and a blue marker, nobody will ever be able to tell that the wiring harness has been touched http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TRUEBELIEVER (Apr 7, 2005)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (acincys)*


_Quote, originally posted by *acincys* »_

also, for those who will work on their own Routan, as long as they have a lot of black duct tape and a blue marker, nobody will ever be able to tell that the wiring harness has been touched http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

hA, so so true.


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (TRUEBELIEVER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TRUEBELIEVER* »_
hA, so so true.


yeah, and i also like their hood switch... which does not come on the base model anyway








and all the old-school mechanical crap, such as a radiator cap with a drain in the over-flow bottle.. or push-rod 3.8L engine... or the potential problems of the rear hatch power rod (or whatever u wanna call it) where if you unhook it from the hatch and hit the close button, you're effed... or how the wire harness for the side power sliding doors gets cought in the chain all of the sudden and gets ripped out... or a bunch of other crap... or in a loaded model, half the seats being manual and the other half power... whats up with that?
or another one... we've PDI'd 2 or 3 of them so far, and already found problems in 1 or 2 of them...
but what can i say... Chrysler minivan is the best selling one, right? so i guess they know what they're doing...























and i have left out many other things that are far beyond being just below the VW standard.
p.s. roof rails are an option










_Modified by acincys at 8:15 PM 10-2-2008_


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## steaguejr (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (acincys)*

When I first saw this in person, I Looked in the inside. It looked ok, but everything seemed cheap. Non VW. Then I heard there was suppose to be a v6 in them. I popped the hood and I saw JUNK. It didn't look nothing like a vw engine should look like. I told a friend that works with vw that it looks like a chevy or ford company built this. He looked at me and said it was built by chrysler.


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## i81b4u (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (steaguejr)*

I looked at a Routan on the Dealer lot last night, Now I want one, too bad they hit the market at this time, 40K vehicles may be a tough sell right now, nice mini van though.


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (i81b4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *i81b4u* »_I looked at a Routan on the Dealer lot last night, Now I want one, too bad they hit the market at this time, 40K vehicles may be a tough sell right now, nice mini van though.

40K is just about top of the line. they start considerably lower than that.


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## i81b4u (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (acincys)*

add anything to the 24K price, cross that with what most dealers stock, and you'll be looking at $32-39,000, triple stitched leather seats and HID lamps are a great benefit to the appearance of the Routan, and they don't come with the 24K van. What the heck is this?--->


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## Wagon05 (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (i81b4u)*

Yep - saw one at the dealer today. If I were in the mini van market - this would be my choice. If you are not a "student" of mini vans (please) , the vehicle is very appealing so probably would reach its intended target market.


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (Downshift #2)*

Thumbs up to this guy!!! I didnt think there were any of us left! My local VW forum started chatting about the 335i and 135i when they were coming out, and I quit posting on the site.
Back to the topic....
I havent even gone to look at a routan, because i could tell it was junk reading about it in a magazine. 
I read about the engine choices and expected to see 2.0t and 3.6, but instead I see OHV and sohc.
Vw re-did alot of things in the interior, but alot of things THEY DID NOT!!!
I am understanding of Volkswagen, that they needed to make this thing cheap to make money on it here..
******HOWEVER******** I will never forgive VW for this, nor will I ever buy a routan. 
With 2 new recent additions to the family, I thought that was gonna put me in the MV market....... Well, I was, till I saw this.... now, my wife will drive a tiguan, which she would rather have anyway.
I am TOTALLY EMBARRASSED as well! I cou;ld sell anyone a VW, and Im not even a salesman. I put VW on a pedestal. 
Now I look like an effing idiot because VW badges are superglued on chrysler's dung!


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## biggiephat (Jun 6, 2007)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (toomuchtoplaywith)*

if you haven't gone to look at it and give it a testdrive then what justifies you to critique it like this?


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (biggiephat)*

Ancient pushrod technology, 3.2l power out of 4.0l gas guzzler. 
Like I said, I understand this is only about the money.
Why dont they put a carb on it, and enter in MV NASCAR
I like to live in america, but alot of things made here are junk.
"Made in Germany" means quality
This is not Vdub, it is chrysler.....count me out
To reply to ur question, I dont need to look, the specs say it all


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## biggiephat (Jun 6, 2007)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (toomuchtoplaywith)*

fair enough but still...minivan made FULLY by volkswagen would of been a economic nightmare for them...it looks nice it runs nice and i cant wait to get mine. unlike driving around in the brick that is the town and country.


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## Sir Maestro (Mar 30, 2004)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (biggiephat)*

Saw and drove a Canadian "Comfortline" model a few days ago, and overall left satisfied, if not impressed with the Routan.
First, the engine - was initially skeptical that they went with a 4.0L as the only offering in Canada, but it was smooth and powerful, although on the noisy side under acceleration. Can't verify mileage from the test drive, but a claimed 8L/100km on the highway would be great.
Design/build - fit/finish and materials lived up to what I would expect from a VW product. Didn't go over everything with a microscope, but initial impression was good.
I'm not a fan of Chrysler products, but put some faith in VW that they wouldn't release a bad minivan to the market, knowing their previous inability to produce one with mass appeal in North America. It may not be a true "German engineered" VW product, however if faced with the choice of having the Routan or not having any VW product in this class, I'd take the Routan any day.


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (Sir Maestro)*

VW looked at the US market and said "Hey, if people atre satisfied with T&Cs, caravans, uplanders, ect.... then all we have to do is jazz one up just a bit, and those damned americans will be happy with that!"
They however did not take into consideration the VW enthusiasts that want 100% VDUB. I take pride in my 100+ "not so standard" features. 
As a mechanic, I drive different cars all the time. I have never been impressed with one thing on an effing minivan. I was expecting alot out of VW, I just didnt realize they hopped up someone elses junk...


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (toomuchtoplaywith)*

Thanks for stopping by.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 2000JettaGLXVR6 (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (toomuchtoplaywith)*


_Quote, originally posted by *toomuchtoplaywith* »_
"Made in Germany" means quality


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## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (2000JettaGLXVR6)*

Love that ShamWow dude!!
I got a German Minivan, and while I love it, I have replaced a *lot* of parts on it over the years. I have also listened to a lot of clunks and rattles. The Routan may not be everyone's cup of tea, but after spending a few weeks earlier this year with the Chrysler version, it ain't a bad van. The Routan, which I checked out when dropping off my quality German made van for its new transmission, is an improvement in many ways over the Chrysler version.



_Modified by aebad at 10:07 PM 10-20-2008_


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## vwbugstuff (Mar 27, 2004)

I'll be trading the EV for a Routan as soon as our trans falls out....I just hope the EV is paid off first....


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (jsmyle1%...)*

Yeah, not a problem http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
this is a thread "anti" routan.... what the hell r u doing here?? 
Just stirring up sh*t????? 
MOVE ON


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## 2000JettaGLXVR6 (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (toomuchtoplaywith)*


_Quote, originally posted by *toomuchtoplaywith* »_Yeah, not a problem http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
this is a thread "anti" routan.... what the hell r u doing here?? 
Just stirring up sh*t????? 
MOVE ON









I hope you're enjoying your rebadge MK4 New Beetle platform TT. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (2000JettaGLXVR6)*

Id rather drive a rebadged german car, than any asian junk....
Actually, what do you drive?? A suba-whO? What r u even doing here? You should get the hell out as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 2000JettaGLXVR6 (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (toomuchtoplaywith)*


_Quote, originally posted by *toomuchtoplaywith* »_Id rather drive a rebadged german car, than any asian junk....
Actually, what do you drive?? A suba-whO? What r u even doing here? You should get the hell out as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I've personally owned six German cars. If anything, I'd argue that the Chrysler minivans are the most European in the American market. After all, they were developed while Chrysler was under German control. Even the key is directly from Mercedes, much nicer than that cheap little switchblade. 
My "Asian-Junk", built in Indiana, will be on the road a hell of a lot longer than your VW.


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (2000JettaGLXVR6)*

U dis Vdub so much, yet you r the one posting on the vdub site... what an idiot
Being buit in indiana makes ur asian junk alot worse


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## 2000JettaGLXVR6 (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (toomuchtoplaywith)*


_Quote, originally posted by *toomuchtoplaywith* »_U dis Vdub so much, yet you r the one posting on the vdub site... what an idiot
Being buit in indiana makes ur asian junk alot worse

Oh really, a "VW site" huh? You don't say...
http://forums.motivemag.com/ze...age=2
I'm not bagging on "vdub", I'd be willing to be that if VW told you this were an all VW van, you guys would be jerkin' off to it like there's no tomorrow.


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## plastic_bullet (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (MontoyaF1)*

Its still just a caravan with a tiguan front end.... Still prone to chryslers reputation of epic transmission failures.... Oh and probably that weird hissy rattling sound that all caravans make....

Epic fail on Volkswagens part!
I have also driven one and yeah 100% garbage IMO.
I might be interested in a hemi powered routon badged as an .:R. Then again maybe not...


_Modified by fourtybucks at 1:28 PM 10-25-2008_


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## noslushbox (Mar 19, 2007)

I've never seen so many people who are not interested in minivans at all so worked up about one.
just relax and let VW sell this thing and make their money. some forget, making a profit is part of being in business


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (fourtybucks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fourtybucks* »_Its still just a caravan with a tiguan front end.... Still prone to chryslers reputation of epic transmission failures.... Oh and probably that weird hissy rattling sound that all caravans make....

Epic fail on Volkswagens part!
I have also driven one and yeah 100% garbage IMO.
I might be interested in a hemi powered routon badged as an .:R. Then again maybe not...

I'm thinking "epic fail" on your part for spouting off about things that you really don't understand. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## plastic_bullet (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (shipo)*

Please feel free to help me "understand"
Nothing wrong with what I said. Every thing I said about the caravan is true!


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (noslushbox)*

I actually thought now I could get a minivan that wasnt junk, and because its VDub, it would actually be cool...... I was sorely mistaken.
I do understand the need to make money however, 
so........
I will just leave it at that..... junk made to make money


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (fourtybucks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fourtybucks* »_Please feel free to help me "understand"
Nothing wrong with what I said. Every thing I said about the caravan is true! 

Sorry, little of what you wrote is true (or has been for some time).

_Quote, originally posted by *fourtybucks* »_Its still just a caravan with a tiguan front end....

True, however, I don't see that as a bad thing.

_Quote, originally posted by *fourtybucks* »_Still prone to chryslers reputation of epic transmission failures....

For the last decade or so, the only significant cause of transmission failures is due to folks not following the requirements for proper filter and fluid replacements. Either they A) didn't replace the filter and fluid at all, or they B) have the incorrect fluid installed (most non-dealer service centers still insist that Dextron with some miracle elixir will magically become ATF+4, talk about "epic fail"), or worse still C) have the transmission "flushed", a process that will pollute a transmission in very short order.
Said another way, for model years 1998-2000, if you simply dropped the pan every 30,000 miles, swapped the filter, and used ATF+3 (1998 & 1999) or ATF+4 (1998 or later), the 41TE transmission has no higher failure rate than any other minivan automatic (and way-way lower rates than say the transmission in the Honda Odyssey). For 4-Speed transmissions built since 2001, there is no service requirement at all.
As for the transmission in the Routan, it is an all new 6-Speed unit that has no history as of yet, but pinning the old transmission issue to it is silly.

_Quote, originally posted by *fourtybucks* »_Oh and probably that weird hissy rattling sound that all caravans make....

Ummm, I'm not at all sure what you're referring to here, we have two DGCs with the 3.8 and neither make any "hissy rattling sound". That said, I have heard some DGCs and T&Cs make a chirping sound, and as a general rule is due to the use of a cheap serpentine belt and/or an old and worn out idler pulley.

_Quote, originally posted by *fourtybucks* »_I have also driven one and yeah 100% garbage IMO.

"Driven one" what? A DGC, a T&C, a Routan? Saying they're 100% garbage also needs to be qualified. Garbage compared to a GTI? Yup, I'd actually agree with that. Garbage compared to other minivans? Sorry, you lost me there. We live in a neighborhood chock-full of minivans of every ilk, and our DGCs are easily a match for any of the other vans out there of similar vintages.


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## rollzroyce (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (emPoWaH)*

See I look at these two pictures and see a more refined dash with less clutter with the Routan.


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## pgaks2 (Jul 30, 2005)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (rollzroyce)*

ok we own a 84GTI, 00 Jetta GL, and a 05 dodge caravan. i like the idea of the routan, comparing it to my 05 it is a hell of alot nicer both inside and out. i would like to see a TDI version of it, and possibly in the future that will happen since VW is selling alot of there diesel motors to jeep/chrysler. 
and to the guy who said the interior is a big deal because thats where we spend 95% of our time, you must not own any mk1s








and to all the ppl touting that the routan has a cheap interior unlike VW, you need to ride in a mk4 more, my mk1 interior has held up better in its 23 yrs than my 00 has in 7, 
i have yet to go see one in person, as i avoid the stealership as much as possible here in Alaska, they have no competition, and their idea of service is a joke.
sheb


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (shipo)*

to a gti, yup, the routan is garbage. But as a real Vdub enthusiast. I didnt expect to have to say "better than other minivans, but garbage compared to a gti"
I expected 2.0t and 3.6 power. A fully german designed body, suspension system, unmistakable gauges and backlighting, optional DSG, ect..... I wanted a badass minivan!!!!
Financially, this must not have the the most profitable
I have always thought more of a Vdub driver, that of a "run-of-the-mill big3 minivan" driver. Now this van is big 3!
And now all I hear is people saying "pretty damn good (for a minivan)"
So really, is this Routan up to VW quality, craftsmanship, and originality?????? Or is it "just better" than the T&C under it's skin or the Honda Odyssey????


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## .KIX. (Sep 8, 2008)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (TRUEBELIEVER)*

I never try to answer to controversial threads but this one need some clarification.
First of all I live in Mexico city where we get all the USA minivans and THE VW minivans and SEAT minivans, namely the sharan and the Alhambra one comes in V6 and the other in 1,.8T.
As some of you may know MExico in general is full of mountani ranges and pretty sick elevations, so Mexico city is at 7000 feet above asea level and a quick simple trip to Acapulco means you need to get up to 8100 feet asl, then go down to 3000 feet then cross 3 mountain ranges on the way "down" to Acapulco, then the return trip.
Most Minivans cannot handle such an easy task, their auto trannies heat up and fail or simple give up the ghost. The VW minivans are no stranger to such conditions, blown trannies left and right, and the Fords and Chevys total POS. You see these minivans selling in their 2 to 3 year at ridiculuos prices because the repairs are stagering.
PROVIDED you dont replace the NEEDED fluids on your Chrysler minivan and put non specified ones, a DC minivan is unestopable. I have had other brands and my wife simply WONT change her minivan, in fact in 2004 and now I have pressed her a lot for a change but she doesnt want to!
WHY?
Because all her friends that have Other brands have gone the way of the ~SUV because of a miriad of problems with their "mom mobiles".
Her Grand Voyager is now 100K miles, and has yet to leaves us stranded in city or highway, we have gone to Acapulco more than 20 times to Can Cun and Belice 3 times ( a 3500 miles rund trip) fully loadesd with kkids and gear, it still works like a champ.
I took her to the DC dealer to see the Town and Country and SHE HATED IT, too boxy, too many electronic gizmos that can fail, way too many stuff we dont need. So we are waiting for the Routan to see if the import it here in a Basic 3.8 (excelent motor BTW) with 4 separate seats and a good radio. We dont need no dvd and sunroof or super navigation.
I Am glad VW choose DC as a partner since they have a proven product and the market as someone said is shrinking, why pour a billion bucks in a vehicle that will compete in a crowded market and will have low production numbers?
Id rather have `VW use that money to give us a great New Beetle version 2.0, a great GTI 6.0 and some other interesting stuff.
BTW I did reviews for auto magazines here in Mexico and altough we liked the Odyssey and the Sienna A lot they had as much electrical gremlins as the DC product and on top of that the mecanical problems. The Vw Minivans are speedy and light, but smaller and prone to tranny and suspension bushings failiure.
Now let hope VW Mexico imports an interesting Routan


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## vanaguy (Oct 18, 2002)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (toomuchtoplaywith)*


_Quote, originally posted by *toomuchtoplaywith* »_U dis Vdub so much, yet you r the one posting on the vdub site... what an idiot
Being buit in indiana makes ur asian junk alot worse

Eeeeyikes... Subaru engines are _the_ thing to replace the German crap in Vanagons, you know... mostly because of their longevity and reliability. Hope this helps you.


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## mattinbend (Oct 12, 2000)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (vanaguy)*

And you call yourself vanaguy?!?








disgraceful talk of fuji engines....


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (mattinbend)*

somebody mentioned in the second page that the Routan is a Caravan with only the front end of a Tiguan. False.
some of the things that i know of that defer:
the whole front end, tail lights, rear window, seat foam, seat fabric, the whole dash, steering wheel, suspension, wheels.. there's plenty more, i just dont know/remember of anything else.
and um... yeah, a Hemi Routan .:R would be nice








TDIs do already exist, but only overseas.

_Quote, originally posted by *mattinbend* »_disgraceful talk of fuji engines....

how so? are they not reliable? do they not last long?


_Modified by acincys at 4:08 PM 11-15-2008_


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

just curious if anyone knows... do the routans have lug nuts or lug bolts?


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## buggyman (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: (toomuchtoplaywith)*

Lug nuts,12mm x 1.5 thread pitch.
P#7B0-601-143-A for alloy wheels.
P#7B0-601-143 for steel wheels.
The studs in the hubs do not show as being replacable seperate of the hubs.


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

*Re: (buggyman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buggyman* »_Lug nuts,12mm x 1.5 thread pitch.
P#7B0-601-143-A for alloy wheels.
P#7B0-601-143 for steel wheels.
The studs in the hubs do not show as being replacable seperate of the hubs.









ETKA?


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## buggyman (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: (acincys)*

Si!,I work parts @Commonwealth vw-audi,Santa Ana,CA.


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (buggyman)*

No lug bolts!?!?!?!?!?!
"This mother-*ucker isnt one of us!!!! He said he'd f*ck a sheep!!"


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## buggyman (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: (toomuchtoplaywith)*

"No lug bolts!?!?!?!?!?!
"This mother-*ucker isnt one of us!!!!..."
Calm down














,100% VW Vanagons had the same stud/nut setup on the front axle














,there will be a transition in technology over time as the van evolves







.


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (buggyman)*

whew!!!!! I felt a heart attack coming on!


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

*Re: (buggyman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buggyman* »_Calm down














,100% VW Vanagons had the same stud/nut setup on the front axle

















really?


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## buggyman (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: (acincys)*

OK,you caught me







.
Correction:rear axle.


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## acincys (Jul 10, 2006)

*Re: (buggyman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buggyman* »_OK,you caught me







.
Correction:rear axle.









they really did one lug bolt axle and one lug stud axle? whatahell..?


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## buggyman (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: (acincys)*

"whatahell..?"
10 251-601-139 bolts front.
10 N-020-112-1 nuts rear.
211-501-619 hub rear with replaceable 211-501-627-A studs on a 5x112 pattern.
http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_category.php?id=372 
Depends on a FWD or a Synchro setup







.
Anything is possible,I run Porsche 944 rear discs on an IRS based sandrail http://www.chircoestore.com/ca...1#new ,just gotta know what you're doing and size everything up right,research







.


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## nicestance (Nov 24, 2008)

*Re: (Corradokcid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Corradokcid* »_.....whats wrong with chryslers???and why are you guys soo butt hurt over this??? this isnt the first time VW and chrysler teamed up on a vehicle......chrystler is by far the best american automobile builder we have....you guys act like VW's are reliable or somthing.....i love VW's but i personally thing they over engineer the vehicles and thats what makes them unreliable 

Are you kidding. I thought the idea of VW making a minivan was a good idea and was even considering driving one....... until I found out it was a Chrysler. They have been building junk for longer than most of us have been alive. Yeah they were fast in the 60's and 70's, but Ford and GM could have put together cars with half the tin and been beating them day in and day out. Governments loved Dodge's because of the cheap price, they were throwaways. Ford and GM are actually building some respectable vehicles as of late, but Chrysler..... come on. They look good, which has always been a Chrysler/Dodge thing, but are unreliable, poorly built, not ergonomic and definitely not aesthetically pleasing interiors. 
Some of the complaints that I have read in the Forum is about the interior. Stiff seats etc. This is VW all the way, including the suspension stiffness, and this among VW's other quirks is what makes me love them.


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## VWCHRYS (Dec 5, 2008)

*Re: Routan is garbage. (vanaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vanaguy* »_
Eeeeyikes... Subaru engines are _the_ thing to replace the German crap in Vanagons, you know... mostly because of their longevity and reliability. Hope this helps you.









agree....imagine buy a VW built by chrysler......stupid...


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## MRP2001GTi (Oct 6, 2000)

*Re: (nicestance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nicestance* »_
Are you kidding. I thought the idea of VW making a minivan was a good idea and was even considering driving one....... until I found out it was a Chrysler. They have been building junk for longer than most of us have been alive.

I take it you havent driven one in the past 10 years?







And I am not talking about one of their low end POS cars I am talking about the 300, Charger, full size Trucks, Town and County’s, etc. 



_Modified by MRP2001GTi at 4:22 PM 1-12-2009_


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## Motorwerks (Nov 6, 2002)

*Re: (MRP2001GTi)*

Mehh the O.P. is a Moron. We just got rid of our Tig for a Routan (we also just had twins and all of our Swag didn't fit anymore) and I like it as much if not more then the Tig(Dont let my friends hear that). Its got MORE bells and whistles for a similar price. Hell we pay 8 bucks less a month, for an extra row of seats, 2 DVD monitors, a second row of heated seats, and what seems to be a little more pick up. Dont like it don't buy it, also don't just go around just saying what trash it is just because you don't like it. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## pcm84 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (Motorwerks)*

I am sooooooooooo relieved VW decided not to use the same *seat foam * as the Chryslers. Just who do they think we are?


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