# My EOS is sooo irritating!



## kluski44 (Jun 11, 2007)

When I pay over $30k for a car I expect to not have to go back to the dealer. Ok, I expect to not have to go back to the dealer as often as I have to with my Eos.
My recent trouble is my driver window. It won't go down, not even the 1/4" jump when opening. Today was really bad and it even involved the passenger door. I was able to open the passenger door and then could not close it. Stupid me, I opened the driver door too, and that had the same problem. The windows would not bump down and therefore the window would not clear the seal and the door would not even clasp and hold closed. 
So I turned the car on and let it heat up for 25 minutes. The passenger window eventually moved and I was able to close it. But the driver door did not. I was able to close it enough so I could get to work. 
I know everyone will say bring it to the dealer. Well, I did already since this is a recurring problem. When it got to the dealer, they said they could not replicate the problem. They reset the computer window code and said; hope that works. Since I had trouble getting my car in a drivable state, I was already late to work so I did not have time to drive by the dealer this monring. And I was late last time I brought my car in last week (for the same problem). 
Back to my first comment. If I pay over $30k for a car, I should not have to live with a problem that the dealer can't replicate and therefore can't fix.


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## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

Man, I share your frustation, I feel the same way about the car and the service.
I've found I've been luckier when I already know what the exact issue is with the car, this way I can point them towards the problem and what needs fixing. Service folks are trained on purpose not to pay attention to our opinion on what's wrong, only to the symptoms we describe, but I have been able to engage the techs in conversation and direct them towards the problem elements. I haven't been wrong yet.
As bad is this sounds, If you don't think you are going to get resolution at your dealer, you probably won't without having additional info for them. 
The reason I personally dislike purchasing new cars is that I am at the mercy of the selling company for repairs during warranty time. And it's not that they are free, they are just included in the car price. You already paid for all possible repairs the car might need, the problem is that since you have already paid, You are the one interested in getting the car fixed, they already got their money. It's now your problem and not theirs. 
Although this approach is sad to embrace, it proves better for my sanity in the long run. I always expect crappy service for warranty work in the US, and I am surprised when it is not so.
Back on Topic:
Were the windows pretty much frozen shut without up/down movement ? or could you operate them using the switches inside the car ?
(Did the window roll up and down using the switches ?)


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: My EOS is sooo irritating! (kluski44)*

Assuming that your problem is related to things freezing up maybe leave it at the dealer outside overnight when you know that it is going to be freezing overnight; especially if there has been some moisture around to get into the door. Maybe that will help, but I understand your frustration.
The windows on my car do not like to go down when it is freezing, but my doors close. pushing down on the windows after it has been driving for a bit may free them up.


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## kluski44 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (ialonso)*


_Quote »_Back on Topic:
Were the windows pretty much frozen shut without up/down movement ? or could you operate them using the switches inside the car ?
(Did the window roll up and down using the switches ?)


They were frozen. They did not move down when I hit the unlock on the key FOB. I pulled on the door a little to get them open. Looking back, I must have pulled the window out from under the seal by pulling. After being open, I tried the individual window switches as well as the one big window switch. And I tried the key FOB a couple more times. Nothing for 25 minutes. Finally, I got frustrated and pushed the passenger window down while pushing the button and it moved. I tried the same with the driver window and it did not budge even with pushing it down lightly. 
Heck, I drove 20 more minutes to work and the window was still stuck when I parked my car at work. 
I thought about trying to see if I pulled the roof switch if it would be enough to move the windows. But then I thought the roof might not close and cause more problems. With it snowing, I really don't want the roof open. 
I try to understand the problem and explain it to the service guys. I even take pictures and video of the actual event.  But they still say that does not help. 

_Quote »_Assuming that your problem is related to things freezing up maybe leave it at the dealer outside overnight when you know that it is going to be freezing overnight;

That is what we tried the first time. At least it happened a couple times when I was showing the serive consultant. I pushed the button a couple times and it did not move. Then it broke free and moved. They kept the car outside and overnight and the next day it worked fine. 
My first problem a couple months ago was the windows moved too many times. Now they don't move. This will be my third trip in for a window issue.


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## Sealy (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: My EOS is sooo irritating! (kluski44)*

Here's my window story - - - A couple of day ago, sitting in the Eos with everything closed, my SO is talking to me from the front yard. I used the ALL button to lower the windows half-way so I could hear him. Then I used it again to raise the windows. After I ran an errand, I noticed that the passenger side rear window was still at half-mast. So I pulled up on the ALL button, to make sure everything closed. To my amusement, the back window goes down - nothing else moved. I used the window-specific button to raise it. No problems since. I'm thinking of calling an exorcist.


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: (kluski44)*

I feel your frustration. I have the same issues with my car when it's cold. No ice or frost on the windows but when the temp drops (doesn't even have to be 32 degrees, I've had problems ~36 and below) the windows do not work well. Fortunately (for me) most window issues relate to the passenger side but I've had a few issues with the drivers door window too. My last problem was last week with freezing precipitation. I was able to clear both windows from ice. I then slid my drivers license between the window and weather strip on the bottom of the window to free that seal, after this the driver side window worked but the passenger side window wouldn't budge, not even with the window switch.
Something in the door must stiffen up triggering some kinda motor current overdraw feature (guessing here) preventing the window from operating.
To me this is unacceptable behavior. I realize a frameless door will require the windows to move in order to open the door and clearing ice from the window is necessary but what else can you do after all signs of ice are removed and the darn window still won't drop preventing you from using the car? 
I suspect there will be a TB about this in the near future. For now I plan to use a plastic sheet from the hardware store and cover the windshield to the rear window and use magnets along the sides as a hold down when freezing precip is expected. Perhaps I'll invest in a car cover for these situations but I think the verdict is still out whether the problem is frozen water in the door or a stiff joint (caused by cold weather) 
OR maybe I just don't know how to work the windows












_Modified by solarflare at 3:32 PM 2-27-2008_


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## Funmobile (Feb 19, 2007)

Weird... must be car specific, and I think I lucked out. 
My windows have been fine through all sorts of cold weather. There have been one or two occasions where ice physically blocked the windows from going down, but as soon as I scraped it, it was back to normal.


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## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

To the folks with the windows problem, when was the last time you put krytox on the seals? I think that re-applying the krytox would keep the seal from freezing to the window...


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: (owr084)*

Krytoxed just before winter in November because I read in the manual that keeping the seals treated will help prevent windows from freezing. 
In my case when the passenger window would not budge that could have been some part of the window frozen to a seal but I’ve also had bizarre behavior like the window will drop just fine but will not go back up on its own. However, in this situation the switch will work for me so that I can close the window. Obviously in this case the window is not frozen as it opened just fine. However, something prevents it from closing when the ignition is switched on or alarm is set. 
The only thing that I can think of that would cause this is either an electrical defect (doubtful because it only happens when it’s cold) or stiff window regulator joints perhaps causing a motor over-current condition. Curious if door controllers would flag and store an error on over current. Probably not as this is most likely how pinch protection is implemented.
As an experiment, I'd like to disable pinch protection to see if the problem disappears.


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## kluski44 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (solarflare)*


_Quote »_To the folks with the windows problem, when was the last time you put krytox on the seals? I think that re-applying the krytox would keep the seal from freezing to the window...


I applied some in Oct and I looked at the seals and they are not showing signs of whiteness yet. But I thought the same. However, if the window sticks to the seal, after it gets unstuck, I would still expect the window to move. 

_Quote »_I’ve also had bizarre behavior like the window will drop just fine but will not go back up on its own. However, in this situation the switch will work for me so that I can close the window.

Yup, same here. But that only happens occasionally. 

_Quote »_Curious if door controllers would flag and store an error on over current

I think so. When I took my car in last week, they said they saw an error code on the window program, and reset the program. But I am not sure what they saw on the code.


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## mrAW11 (Mar 8, 2007)

you didn't realize that regardless of price, volkswagens are still unreliable? look at phaetons, they're spendy as hell and they break just as much as my pos jetta. 
look at it this way, the more crap your car has, the more its gonna break. c'mon now, you bought a car that has to roll the window down so you can open the door.


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: (mrAW11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrAW11* »_ you bought a car that has to roll the window down so you can open the door. 

No, I bought a car that will store it's roof in the trunk at a touch of a button http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'll bet these windows issues could be resolved with a less sensitive motor over current setting. Regardless, I don't have the time to run to the dealer every morning when it's cold so they can fiddle, nor can I be without my wheels for days on end. I'll just patiently wait for a TB like I did for the radio bass boost problem..


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## kluski44 (Jun 11, 2007)

Got in the car last night after work and the window still did not work. About 10 minutes later in my commute home, it was working. This morning it is still wokring. 
I did notice that when it does start working again, the auto "one push" feature does not. I have to hold the button the whole time the window moves. But today it is fully working.


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## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

Interesting. It sounds like wither the pinch protection setting gets cleared, or the window motor still requires so much current that it thinks there is some obstruction on the window.
Best of Luck resolving !


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: (Funmobile)*

How snow and low temperatures do you get in Arlington VA? I suspect not very.
Here in MN, the temperatures didn't exceed for 10F degrees for about a week (and went down to below -10F). At that point, my passenger window stopped moving. There was no ice visible or on the surface as I park indoors in the evening.
I don't believe this is car specific; its physics.


_Quote, originally posted by *Funmobile* »_Weird... must be car specific, and I think I lucked out. 
My windows have been fine through all sorts of cold weather. There have been one or two occasions where ice physically blocked the windows from going down, but as soon as I scraped it, it was back to normal.


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## Funmobile (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: (liquid stereo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquid stereo* »_How snow and low temperatures do you get in Arlington VA? I suspect not very. 

Arlington is much warmer than Minnesota!







We've gotten down to the twenties (some teens), and only 3-4 light snow/ice storms this year.
The reason I mentioned that it might be car-specific is that SolarFlare, who is also inside the DC Beltway, mentioned having the same type of problems as you, but has had the same weather as me. Also- I don't know if some of our friends up north have not had these problems parked outside in similar weather?
I'm not minimizing your problem or saying that it is your fault... VW should obviously build a car with doors that open wherever they sell it.








I just wonder what drives the different experiences... It could be that there are other variables like parking in the sun or shade, or the tightness of the settings on the window seal... I sometimes get wind noise, so maybe mine are looser and less prone to freeze. 
Whatever the difference... VW should figure out how to fix your car so that it lets you open the doors, regardless of whether you park in the sun or in a garage, or if rains or snows.


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## ashbinder (Nov 27, 2006)

*Re: (Funmobile)*

I haven't had the same seriousness for the problem - the only thing is that anything colder than -5C, my window sometimes won't go back up after dropping so I can open the door. But it never freezes up entirely. To be honest, I expected better - it seems that the window regulators are just inconsistent in terms of operation for different cars. Dont' get me wrong - I can understand the difficulty in designing them for an 80C temperature span, but that shouldn't be an excuse.
However, in VW's defence, I have heard of similar problems from Mustang and G6 owners that have the same "window dropping" mechanism. So no one's got it perfect.


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## kluski44 (Jun 11, 2007)

Temps here in Pittsburgh have been in the teens and low 20s. 
When the manual says the roof can be operated when the temp is 5 degrees or warmer, then I would expect the windows to do the same.


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## frissen2000 (Oct 1, 2002)

*Re: My EOS is sooo irritating! (kluski44)*

Hi, despite this well being an electronic problem...
I have also discover ( I don't own an EOS ) in my MINI, that dry and frozen soap used to wash the car may shut the window movement. Soap gets in the inseam of the window while whasing it, gets dry and frozen and shuts the window movement. To solve it pour some hot water over the side of the window.
Just an idea, this may have nothing to do with EOS, but its worth checking out...
For those thinking what the heck is a MINI owner doing over the EOS board I also own a cople of VW's...
1988 Passat








I love the VW scene and the Passat is perfect to hit the VW events...
2002 Sharan








Tremendous baby hauler... interior space and handling is superior to any minivan out there...

this is the MINI








window stuck drives me crazy... but is faster than most Ferraris and Porsche Turbos, just kidding... I finally used the MINI to pull some cars out to the track...
this one doesn't get the window stuck ever...








and nine more cars to drive...
daily driver 1








daily driver 2








anyway just justifying my intrusion...


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: (kluski44)*

Okay, based on the good info supplied here I think I understand some of the bizarre window behavior. It seems to me if a window triggers a fault (like when trying to open but frozen) then the controller won't try to close the window, perhaps as a safety feature from detecting a fault. This could explain the situations when the window will drop but will not close on its own. (could also explain why the one-touch feature is disabled) 
This morning my passenger window tried to open but didn't quite make it. The temperature was in the 20's no frost/ice on the window surface but who knows inside the door. This afternoon (temperature 35) that window dropped just fine but didn't even try to close. No movement upward and not even a sound as if the controller did not send the command to close but it did close just fine with the switch. Same behavior when I got home only I had to use the key lock cylinder to close that window because I was exiting the car. My guess is that window caused a fault code this morning and won't close normally until the fault is cleared. I'm not sure when the fault code will clear itself (more then a few operations I'm thinking) 
The root cause is still a frozen or stiff window mechanism so the solution remains to be determined. I still think a less sensitive over current detect will solve much of these troubles but only the VW designers know for sure how the door controllers behave. I can only hope they lurk here to get some valuable feedback on improvements.


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## kluski44 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (solarflare)*


_Quote »_I can only hope they lurk here to get some valuable feedback on improvements

That is one of the big reasons I post here even if I know no one can fix my problem. I figured they lurk here to get user feedback.
Mine was problematic today again. But to describe it a little further, mine does make a noise (or attempt) each time. In fact the back half of the window does budge slightly - maybe a 1/16 of an inch. But the front half does not. So I am not sure if it starts to move at an angle and then triggers a fault. I tried a few times while driving down the street and then it started to work properly.


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: (kluski44)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kluski44* »_
Mine was problematic today again. But to describe it a little further, mine does make a noise (or attempt) each time. In fact the back half of the window does budge slightly - maybe a 1/16 of an inch. But the front half does not. So I am not sure if it starts to move at an angle and then triggers a fault. I tried a few times while driving down the street and then it started to work properly. 

Yes, mine was too this morning. And your right. I could hear the motor try to move the window down but give up. This is the source of the fault. In my case this morning the passenger window was frozen (somewhere) so would not move, even with the switch and I could hear the motor trying. 
But I’ll bet this afternoon the window will be free but because of the fault this morning will not close on it’s own. In this case, I'll bet, the controller won’t try to close, but because the window is not frozen anymore the switch will work to close it.
Like I said before, I'll just wait patiently for a TB, winter is almost over anyway.


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (Funmobile)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Funmobile* »_Weird... must be car specific, and I think I lucked out. 
My windows have been fine through all sorts of cold weather.


Also in the DC area and no problems either.


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## Abtitude (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: My EOS is sooo irritating! (kluski44)*

i hope you go to the dealer and throw a fit cause it's the dealership's fault. you know what's even more frustrating is to try to fix something that's not occuring. 
cheers


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## burleyj (Nov 29, 2007)

*Re: My EOS is sooo irritating! (kluski44)*

I have been having the same problems in FL and there isn't a lot of freezing weather here








I had to lend our EOS to my dad, so I could use his van it tomorrow. It was so embarrassing to have to say yeah if you hear a lot of wind noise make sure the windows closed up when you shut the doors….I am not really to mad about the problems I have had with the EOS. It is my first VW after years of Hondas and one Toyota, so I expected issues based on reading posts and listening to other VW owners. I figured if any problems were gonna pop in a VW they would pop in this car since it has so many different complicated parts.


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