# Main reason of DSG issues



## nick31 (Jul 22, 2013)

Seems to be a differential used in this transmission. Apparently it wears over short time/mileage. Jerking, bucking etc is caused by metal dust and shavings from the diff entering mechatronic unit.
Metal shavings attach to sensors magnets, spoil mechatronic unit, solenoids and filters (there is a second filter with magnets inside DSG fyi).

Changing mechatronic unit helps only for a short time, until a new unit gets dirty again. Clutchpacks are rarely at true fault.
The long term solution is a new diff (peloquin, quaife, wavetrac), all new filters and seals, cleaning the housing/parts from metal shavings, cleaning mechatronic unit and replacing faulty solenoids.




























Discuss.


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## Blaylock1988 (Apr 22, 2012)

Oh wow, this is really interesting!

My DSG jerks from a stop and clunks when disengaging the clutch. Audi replaced my mechatronics and said it didnt fix it so they replaced my transmission. That still hasn't fixed the issue. Any thoughts on what the heck is wrong with mine? Seems like replacing the tranny would have fixed the issues you mentioned. Maybe they kept the same old diff?


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

Similar here. We tried a few different mech units and I have new longer/gear gear box... Mine works fine when cold, but gets lurchy when it's warmed up... It seems if this were the case, it would be pretty bad all the time.


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## nick31 (Jul 22, 2013)

@Blaylock1988
I had a replacement dsg tranny put in my car as well, and it is acting just like the old one. Diff is inside the tranny, so it definitely was replaced.
The issue here is that VAG doesn't ever put a NEW tranny, instead they always use REFURBISHED one. Check the service order, most likely your new tranny p/n ends in X.
And because of that you can never tell if a replacement tranny will have any problems soon.

@sentari
mine is exactly like yours, only acts up warm. the reason might be overheating or dirt in mechatronic's solenoids/tranny. it is not bad all the time because the diff is the cause of mechatronic's spoilage, which gets more pronounced with higher temps.


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## Blaylock1988 (Apr 22, 2012)

That makes a lot of sense. Mine is also only acting up when warm. I did see an X in the part number so I'm pretty sure its refurbished. I actually put a tune on it and it made everything worse. I just removed the tune on friday and the transmission shifts much smoother, but not perfect. Tunes increase the pressure and thus the temperature is higher as well so something is still bad in this new transmission that doesn't like heat.

I don't know if they put a new mechatronics unit on the new transmission or kept the previously replaced one (they did mechatronics just before the full transmission.) What do you think audi should be fixing/replacing next? Should I fight to have another full replacement?


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## YikeGrymon (Sep 12, 2005)

nick31 said:


> @Blaylock1988
> I had a replacement dsg tranny put in my car as well, and it is acting just like the old one. Diff is inside the tranny, so it definitely was replaced.
> 
> The issue here is that VAG doesn't ever put a NEW tranny, instead they always use REFURBISHED one. Check the service order, most likely your new tranny p/n ends in X.
> ...


Hmmmm. ENDS with an X or has an X within it?

The DSG in my Jetta (acquired as a CPO 2.5 years ago) was replaced by VW after I'd had the car for a coupla months. Much unholy transmission noises and behavior. Dealer said "VW has elected to just replace the whole trans." I was like "Okay." Seemed like something one would not wanna argue with. P/N for the new (or "new") unit noted on the the work order has an X in there, but not at the end. Does this mean anything particular?


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## Blaylock1988 (Apr 22, 2012)

YikeGrymon said:


> Hmmmm. ENDS with an X or has an X within it?
> 
> The DSG in my Jetta (acquired as a CPO 2.5 years ago) was replaced by VW after I'd had the car for a coupla months. Much unholy transmission noises and behavior. Dealer said "VW has elected to just replace the whole trans." I was like "Okay." Seemed like something one would not wanna argue with. P/N for the new (or "new") unit noted on the the work order has an X in there, but not at the end. Does this mean anything particular?


Is your replacement tranny driving poorly now?


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## nick31 (Jul 22, 2013)

My replacement tranny p/n is 02E-300-053-AX-00N, where X means it is a refurb. Brand new tranny p/n would be 02E-300-053-A-00N.
As far as I know, when the tranny gets replaced, everything gets replaced including mechatronic (it is bolted to the tranny).

I already got (free) new clutchpacks, full service and flywheel (not a part of a tranny, but VAG didn't know what to do, original flywheel had 1/2in play at most) after that replacement, still have issues (1-2-3 rough shifts, downshifting is a pain, heat aggravates everything). Then my replacement warranty (1 year only for replacements) ran out lol. If you are still in a warranty period, by all means fight for a complete replacement. VAG probably will go the same route (clutchpacks-mechatronic-tranny).

By the way, you will never know if your diff is failing or not until it is gone completely. BUT the symptoms are just like yours and mine. There is a way to check for dust/shavings, but you have to either remove mechatronic, or use a borescope thru the fill opening in the tranny.
Long term and out-of-warranty solution is finding 3rd party dsg specialist. _Approximate_ cost (labor, new diff, solenoids and so on) is 3k, which is cheaper than a new dsg.

On the original tranny I had new clutchpacks first, then a new mechatronic (which was fine for a few weeks, and then the car started to stall in reverse). I believe what happened was the new mechatronic fixing the issues, then collecting metal participles and failing in a very short time.


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## YikeGrymon (Sep 12, 2005)

Blaylock1988 said:


> Is your replacement tranny driving poorly now?


Nope. Seems fine. It's been in there since the end of Jan '13 now. Doesn't do anything odd. Once in a while I can hear it clack, but I know they all do that, given that they are actually manuals that can be left in a computer's hands to shift. I don't really tear around in this car (I have the R for that, heh), so it's not like it's subject to harsh usage conditions I suppose. From here I guess I just stay aware and hope for the best.

I was wrong about it having been a few months between purchase and when I really became concerned about weird/scary noises + behavior, as I said above. I see by my service records that it was actually only about a month after I took delivery that I returned to the dealership in Big WTF Mode.

The disturbing part here is that either they just wanted to move it and sold it as an A-OK, 121-point-checked, whatever else CPO... or that no one picked up on it being outta whack. I can't decide which is worse. I'm more attuned to stuff like this than most people are, so maybe either was the case and they figured Joe Dumbass Buyer just wouldn't know the difference. Great.

OR the reality is that it simply started flaking out a month after I bought it. Guess I'll never know.


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## YikeGrymon (Sep 12, 2005)

nick31 said:


> My replacement tranny p/n is 02E-300-053-AX-00N, where X means it is a refurb. Brand new tranny p/n would be 02E-300-053-A-00N. As far as I know, when the tranny gets replaced, everything gets replaced including mechatronic (it is bolted to the tranny)....


Interesting. The P/N for mine is 02E-300-052-TX-00Q. So I guess it wasn't new from the factory after all. It's possible that they never used the word "new" anyway, but referred to this operation as "replacing" it. It's not like that's actually a lie, right. Sorta reminds me anyway of the cleverness behind the stickers on a washer and dryer I bought about a year ago. I noticed that nothing actually said MADE IN USA on it. Rather, it's now DESIGNED AND ASSEMBLED IN USA. Soooo much is done this way now. Clearly the idea is that a lot of people won't catch that until later. And many others won't ever catch it. Still not necessarily a bad thing. Unless you're one of the people in this country who used to manufacture the parts and doesn't have a job anymore. But let's not get started on that.

Then again, refurbished isn't by definition a bad thing, either. So as I said earlier, I guess I just remain aware and hope for the best.

Thanks for this bit of info, nick.


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

The interesting part is that when driving a speed it works just fine not... Meaning, after take offs (coming to a stop is lurchy too). Is yours the same?

@sentari
mine is exactly like yours, only acts up warm. the reason might be overheating or dirt in mechatronic's solenoids/tranny. it is not bad all the time because the diff is the cause of mechatronic's spoilage, which gets more pronounced with higher temps.[/QUOTE]


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## P1NDLESK1N (Aug 11, 2010)

Interesting.

I've gone through more mech units than I'd care to share, only to have the same issue resurface after a couple months.

Now that I'm experiencing the same issues yet again I might have to check this out.

Do you think an aftermarket LSD would hold up better than OEM? Or just simply replacing the differential with a new one, instead of the refurbished tranny that VW would provide via warranty.


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## nick31 (Jul 22, 2013)

sentari said:


> The interesting part is that when driving a speed it works just fine not... Meaning, after take offs (coming to a stop is lurchy too). Is yours the same?


Totally. Great on a highway, sucks in the city. Gets worse after highway and going to city.

@P1NDLESK1N

According to reviews, aftermarket diff (peloquin, wavetrac, quaife) is times better than the one VAG used in dsg. And it does hold up. Afaik you won't be able to find stock diff, only from a donor dsg.
If you have warranty, just go with it. It is free. Just make sure your replacement dsg performs as it should, cuz you only have 1 year of warranty for it. VAG does not fix the internals of dsg, they send them back to germany for refurbishing.
If warranty is over, there is no errors logged, check if you have any metal shavings using a borescope (~$40), or take mech unit off and look inside. Shavings are obvious right away.

If there is no shavings at all, it might be the tiny dust from clutchpacks clogging mech unit. Take mech unit off, clean it, replace all inside filters and seals, solenoids (http://www.sonnax.com/parts/1648) if necessary.


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## Blaylock1988 (Apr 22, 2012)

I think if I were outside of the warranty I would do like you said and clean everything, with new solenoids and seals, install a wavetrac diff, a USP aluminum oil filter housing and also install a USRT IceCap external cooler.

I noticed one of the big things that bothers me is when coasting in 3rd or 2nd to a stop, the clutches will just clunk off very loudly and it jerks the car quite a bit while they disengage. Very annoying.


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## wichoz (Sep 14, 2011)

I learned something new, great... just a thought, what if we install something like the ECS Tuning magnetic drain plug in the DSG? So we can clean it in short intervals.


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## nick31 (Jul 22, 2013)

you probably would want something like that:

http://dsg-korpus.ru/
https://www.drive2.ru/b/1958654/

comes with a magnet inside.


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## wichoz (Sep 14, 2011)

nick31 said:


> you probably would want something like that:
> 
> http://dsg-korpus.ru/
> https://www.drive2.ru/b/1958654/
> ...


Thanks for the info!


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## Blaylock1988 (Apr 22, 2012)

nick31 said:


> you probably would want something like that:
> 
> http://dsg-korpus.ru/
> https://www.drive2.ru/b/1958654/
> ...


Is there one I can buy in the US? Looks like USP's doesn't have a magnet.


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## nick31 (Jul 22, 2013)

Blaylock1988 said:


> Is there one I can buy in the US? Looks like USP's doesn't have a magnet.


In the US USP case is the only option. Russians made their own version with blackjack and hookers (magnet and extra ribs). Main idea of this case is lowering fluid temperature, and afair they claimed -8 degC.

Magnet will not help much imho, cuz there is plenty of magnets inside of DSG and these will catch metal faster/earlier than the one in the filter case.


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## Blaylock1988 (Apr 22, 2012)

That is a disturbing amount of metal chips.


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## nick31 (Jul 22, 2013)

That DSG on the picture above only has 40k miles.


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## 08 MKV GTI (Aug 3, 2009)

I had my Mech unit replaced 2 years ago and enjoyed a few weeks of smooth shifting. I have to drive my GTI with traction control off in Manual mode to get smooth shifts. If I drive in Auto mode my car loses power between shifts and traction control light flashes between shifts 1-2-3 and everyone in the car gets thrown forward. Makes for an interesting first impression of my car to family.

Sent from my XT1031 using Tapatalk


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## EDM_R32 (Aug 2, 2014)

I'm a bit shocked that this issue doesn't qualify under lemon laws - if everyone is having multiple issues with the same repair or unit, the transmission, I can't believe we don't have any legal recourse to get out from under these cars. I realize we all love our cars and want to keep them. 

But where does this trail end? I mean is the solution, drive the car until the dsg/tranny warranty expires then dump the car?

Mine has 44k miles and outside of this issue everything is in great condition.

My mech unit was done in 2011 I believe when the previous owner had the car. Mine will be going in for dealer inspection within a week or so. Will def share info. Dealer who did my haldex said in the service managers words slips in 1st and 2nd, to me it's just slight jerking like everyone else has mentioned and still does the slow lurching in reverse.

Basically the same issue I had with my 2008 GTI DSG - but once they did Mech on that car, it worked flawlessly in forward and reverse til I got rid of it in 2012. Not sure if the new owner has had issues.


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## nick31 (Jul 22, 2013)

Well this diff issue usually pops right out of factory warranty, and is classified by some as regular wear due to abuse.. Abuse means wheel spinning, accelerating hard with the wheels not being straight, drifting in the snow or on ice, excessive time spent in traffic jams. If you have extended warranty, eventually you can pressure VAG to replace whole tranny for free. If not, at least you can REPAIR dsg with an aftermarket diff and eliminate future issues.
This is just a bad diff design.

As for lemon, how about much more serious chain tensioner issue? 3 different part numbers, and no solution.


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## killer666 (May 3, 2015)

I also had issues with my diff, I ended up replacing it with a MFactory LSD


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## Blaylock1988 (Apr 22, 2012)

Do you have more pictures of it installed into the tranny? Can you comment on how shifting and stop/go feels with the new LSD? Did you have any other work done to the Mechatronics?


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## nick31 (Jul 22, 2013)

The only work which needs to be done to mechatronic is thorough cleaning, replacing all seals and filters, and maybe replacing solenoids IF you had any DTCs.


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## killer666 (May 3, 2015)

I changed the location of the pictures, I hope that now they will show up, I did not make any changes to the mechatronic , I just cleaned the whole gearbox interns and changed the filters , cleaned the magnets











The car lunches much better now, i can barely see the ESP flashing 

I have also posted a short video on youtube


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## Blaylock1988 (Apr 22, 2012)

Wow your old diff was tearing itself apart! What symptoms were you having?

How is normal driving now? (Light throttle, shifting, stop/go)

My TT actually does really well under full throttle and launches. It's everything else that doesn't feel so smooth.


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## killer666 (May 3, 2015)

the only symptoms that I had was when I was going from N to Drive or Reverse I had a brutal shock(like a bang and the care was jumping for a meter) , also while down shifting gears had also some small shocks, with the LSD everything is smooth and lean, next step for me is to upgrade the software on the DSG to remove all the torque limitations and to apply more pressure on the clutches


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## Hilal (Nov 11, 2009)

Blaylock1988 said:


> Oh wow, this is really interesting!
> 
> My DSG jerks from a stop and clunks when disengaging the clutch. Audi replaced my mechatronics and said it didnt fix it so they replaced my transmission. That still hasn't fixed the issue. Any thoughts on what the heck is wrong with mine? Seems like replacing the tranny would have fixed the issues you mentioned. Maybe they kept the same old diff?


Perhaps a software update?


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## killer666 (May 3, 2015)

Try a basic settings adaption with the vag com


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## Blaylock1988 (Apr 22, 2012)

My new transmission already has the latest software. Tune didn't help, only multiplied the effects. I've done adaptation more times than I can count.


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## killer666 (May 3, 2015)

If you need a differential let me know, I have a golf 7 r dsg gearbox with 5000km for raining days sitting in my garage


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

If in fact there are metal shavings, does the tranny need to come out.. opened... cleaned? Or is it just the mech unit that needs to come out. And is that pretty strait forward?



nick31 said:


> Totally. Great on a highway, sucks in the city. Gets worse after highway and going to city.
> 
> @P1NDLESK1N
> 
> ...


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## nick31 (Jul 22, 2013)

Blaylock1988 said:


> My new transmission already has the latest software. Tune didn't help, only multiplied the effects. I've done adaptation more times than I can count.


I can definitely confirm this. Multiple adaptations, multiple software versions, tune, nothing helps.

Got rid of the car it's not worth the trouble.


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## nick31 (Jul 22, 2013)

sentari said:


> If in fact there are metal shavings, does the tranny need to come out.. opened... cleaned? Or is it just the mech unit that needs to come out. And is that pretty strait forward?


Tranny has to come out, opened and cleaned. Cleaning mech unit will only get rid of around 25% of contamination. The majority of shavings are inside of transmission. If you have shavings, you need new diff for sure.

It is rather involved procedure.


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## EDM_R32 (Aug 2, 2014)

This whole thing scares me, maybe it is in fact time to move to a BMW or a mk2.....my whole life has been VW, but the hit and miss of dealer service on this issue and the lower quality of the cars for volume purposes is really turning me off about VW --- and now they were caught with their pants down again lying about the emissions of TDIs. What a corrupt operation.


I'll go head and add my complaint to that federal registry about DSG.


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## Justin_DeSilva (Sep 12, 2013)

Does anyone recall where this washer and lock ring go?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz9rHIB0Bvk﻿

MK5 02E DSG HUT

Washer 65 ID x 71.3 OD x 0.5 mm thick
Lock ring 63 ID x 2 mm diameter


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## Voz (Aug 10, 2005)

nick31 said:


> I can definitely confirm this. Multiple adaptations, multiple software versions, tune, nothing helps.
> 
> Got rid of the car it's not worth the trouble.


That’s the only solution. Been there!!!


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2018)

sentari said:


> Similar here. We tried a few different mech units and I have new longer/gear gear box... Mine works fine when cold, but gets lurchy when it's warmed up... It seems if this were the case, it would be pretty bad all the time.


Finally someone with the same issue as me!!! 


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## findalex (Aug 15, 2018)

Same problem here with my '09 A3. Basic settings will fix it for a while, but then it starts to misbehave again. Still searching for a permanent fix.


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## solidsteel (Aug 27, 2012)

*Jetta V TSI DSG shifting on acceleration jerks*

My 2009 Jetta 2.0L TSI feels like it's having trouble shifting smoothly most pronounced when cruising on the freeway,then, when you need to depress the accelerator to speed up from current cruising speed, instead on downshifting from 6 to 5, there is a kickback(rough jolt) through the vehicle.This started occurring just after i performed a DSG fluid & filter change.
I also added about 30ml DSG oil above the drained out 4.6L, replace 4.6L method.So i was careful not to overfill, thank you- edH. Please let me know possible diag. & solution


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## findalex (Aug 15, 2018)

did you reset the transmission with VCDS/scan tool after the fluid/filter change?

did you measure and refill the fluid at the same temperature? oil expands.

if this happened after you did the change, you might want to re-do it to see if it was a bad filter, or maybe you have a small leak. you could also try re-doing the oil change using the factory method.


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