# V10 Turbo(s) cutting out



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi all, 

My MY2006 V10 started suffering from the dreaded turbo cut-out in the last 2 weeks. The symptoms are the well-reported unexpected reduction in power, usually after the hot engine is stopped and restarted half way through a trip, as in fuel fill-up or coffee stop. After another stop-start, or the next day, it's back to normal. 

There's no physical effects I have noticed, no noises or vibrations. There are no panel indications. 

A VCDS scan shows a turbo #2 error. This started happening during the last main dealer service, when they reported seeing this on their scan, although it had never happened to me before dropping the car off with them. 

I guess this 'dealer link' is a pure coincidence. But does anyone have any knowledge of how these things work, and whether there is anything that could happen during a service that could trigger a fault like this? 


Address 11: Engine II Labels: None 
Part No SW: 070 906 016 CM HW: 028 101 208 9 
Component: V10 5,0L EDCA000AGSª7001 
Coding: 0000175 
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000 
VCID: 5DBB60A0872AAFB 

1 Fault Found: 
18361 - Turbocharger Control Module 2 
P1953 - 000 - Defective - Intermittent 
Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 1785 /min 
Torque: 300.2 Nm 
Speed: 50.0 km/h 
Load: 29.8 % 
Bin. Bits: 00000000 
Bin. Bits: 00100000 
Absolute Pres.: 1285.2 mbar 
Absolute Pres.: 1774.8 mbar 


I have no idea what the Binary Bits mean, although I guess that the Absolute Pressures relate to the inlet and output pressures on the turbo unit. 

I have had some 'faults' in the scan relating to several controllers and can bus comms failures at 10.64V to 12.01V, so I will replace the 7-year old Power Supply LH battery in the next couple of weeks, but it seems too long a shot that this turbo controller fault is related to that factor. 

Cheers, 
Chris


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Paximus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> My MY2006 V10 started suffering from the dreaded turbo cut-out in the last 2 weeks. The symptoms are the well-reported unexpected reduction in power, usually after the hot engine is stopped and restarted half way through a trip, as in fuel fill-up or coffee stop. After another stop-start, or the next day, it's back to normal.
> 
> ...


 Hi Chris, 

firstly, don't panic! The fault could very well be battery related, (I have had the same experience with the car going into limp mode, a restart usually clears the problem, and this was cure with the replacement battery) but not necessarily. A possibility is the linkage to the VVT from the controller, or the controller itself might have gone bad. 
Problem, VW will not sell you a controller, however there is a company in Blackpool that will repair and warranty them! It could however be a sticky linkage, but the binary codes I have never seen before. 
The drawback to the problem being mechanical, you will be well aware of - engine out! The saving grace is, whilst it is out you can get everything else done at the same time, thus making the cost a little easier to stomach! 
Firstly though,try *fully* charging the LH battery and clearing the faults, it may give a more accurate picture of the possibility of a battery related problem. 
Keep us informed Chris as I have some good contacts and bits and bobs for the turbos! 

Stu


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Chris, 

scrub the last post (but I've left it in case it helps anyone else) 

See the fault code from mine below. 

18360 - Turbocharger Control Module 1: Defective 
P1952 - 000 - - - Intermittent 
Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 2709 /min 
Torque: 813.7 Nm 
Speed: 72.6 km/h 
Load: 88.2 % 
Bin. Bits: 00000000 
Bin. Bits: 00100000 
Absolute Pres.: 2254.2 mbar 
Absolute Pres.: 2590.8 mbar 

This particular situation was remedied with the new battery, not identical bus suspiciously similar!! 

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Stu, 

Thanks for the calm info, and the tips on dealing with the mechanicals! The advice to fix the Power Supply first is good, I'll do that. 

The "faults" list below is how it came back from the dealership after service. They clearly didn't use a battery maintainer. 

There have been some other unusual ones in the last week, in the list at the bottom of this posting, but most seem to relate to conditions when the engine is stopped, so I assume they too are to do with the Power Supply. 

I'm resigned to "engine out", so anything short of that would be a bonus! 

Cheers, 
Chris 




After the service 

*Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl* 
... 
3 Faults Found: 
00165 - Switch for Transmission Position P/N 
007 - Short to Ground - Intermittent *** this is always there - switch fault? 
00087 - Terminal 30 for Starting Relevant Consumers 
009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent 
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent 
*Address 06: Seat Mem. Pass Labels: 3D0-959-759.lbl* 
1 Fault Found: 
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent 
*Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl 
* Part No: 3D0 035 007 PX 
1 Fault Found: 
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded 
*Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl* 
1 Fault Found: 
01592 - Air Quality Sensor (G238) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent 
*Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3D0-937-049-V1.clb* 
1 Fault Found: 
00907 - Intervention load Management 
000 - - 
*Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 3D0-959-760.lbl* 
1 Fault Found: 
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent 
*Address 37: Navigation Labels: 3D0-919-887.lbl* 
1 Fault Found: 
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent 
*Address 38: Roof Electronics Labels: 3D0-907-135.lbl* 
1 Fault Found: 
00926 - Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent 
*Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl* 
8 Faults Found: 
00927 - Terminal 30 (Right) 
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent 
01516 - Terminal 30; Left 
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent 
00926 - Terminal 30 
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent 
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent 
01331 - Door Control Module; Driver Side (J386) 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent 
01332 - Door Control Module; Passenger Side (J387) 
 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent 
01333 - Door Control Module; Rear Left (J388) 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent 
01334 - Door Control Module; Rear Right (J389) 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent 
*Address 57: TV Tuner Labels: 3D0-919-146.lbl* 
1 Fault Found: 
02239 - Audio / Video Output 1 
007 - Short to Ground *** this is always there 
*Address 66: Seat, Rear Labels: 3D0-959-860.lbl* 
1 Fault Found: 
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent 



Random "faults" recently 

*Address 01: Engine Labels: None* 
Part No SW: 070 906 016 CM HW: 028 101 208 9 
Component: V10 5,0L EDCA000AGMª7001 
Coding: 0000175 
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000 
VCID: 5DBB60A0872AAFB 

2 Faults Found: 
18063 - Please check DTC Memory of Auto. Distance Controller 
P1655 - 000 - 
Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 0 /min 
Torque: 244.9 Nm 
Speed: 0.0 km/h 
Load: 0.0 % 
*Voltage: 12.01 V* 
Bin. Bits: 00010100 
Torque: 292.3 Nm 
Torque: 0.0 Nm 

18315 - Engine Databus 
P1907 - 000 - ECUECU Communications Fault - Intermittent 
Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 0 /min 
Torque: 592.5 Nm 
Speed: 0.0 km/h 
Load: 0.0 % 
*Voltage: 10.64 V* 
Bin. Bits: 00010100 
Torque: 292.3 Nm 
Torque: 0.0 Nm 

Readiness: 0 0 X X X 

*Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 3D0-614-517.lbl* 
Part No: 3D0 614 517 AK 
Component: ESP 5.7 allrad H33 0047 
Coding: 0008646 
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000 
VCID: 6BDF3E78499ED1B 

1 Fault Found: 
01314 - Engine Control Module 
004 - No Signal/Communication 

*Address 11: Engine II Labels: None* 
Part No SW: 070 906 016 CM HW: 028 101 208 9 
Component: V10 5,0L EDCA000AGSª7001 
Coding: 0000175 
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000 
VCID: 5DBB60A0872AAFB 

2 Faults Found: 
18361 - Turbocharger Control Module 2 
P1953 - 000 - Defective - Intermittent 
Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 2058 /min 
Torque: 316.0 Nm 
Speed: 77.4 km/h 
Load: 33.3 % 
Bin. Bits: 00000000 
Bin. Bits: 00100000 
Absolute Pres.: 1407.6 mbar 
Absolute Pres.: 2101.2 mbar 

18315 - Engine Databus 
P1907 - 000 - ECUECU Communications Fault - Intermittent 
Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 0 /min 
Torque: 592.5 Nm 
Speed: 0.0 km/h 
Load: 0.0 % 
*Voltage: 11.63 V* 
Bin. Bits: 00010100 
Torque: 292.3 Nm 
Torque: 0.0 Nm 

*Address 13: Auto Dist. Reg Labels: None* 
Part No: 3D0 907 567 H 
Component: AC101 V10D6HP324 09 0338 
Coding: 0001031 
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000 
VCID: 3163EC10AB327BB 

2 Faults Found: 
01316 - ABS Control Module 
013 - Check DTC Memory 
00472 - Control Module for Brake Boost (J539) 
013 - Check DTC Memory


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Chris, 

this is looking more and more like the Battery. I had several of the codes above, along with Level Faults and Running Gear. 
I replaced both batteries and all is well (touch wood) 
Perhaps Harry could organise one of those days, you know, we all turn up and remove engines! Far more fun than just clearing a few codes! 
I'll keep fingers crossed for you! 

Link to Battery retailer 

http://justcarbatteries.co.uk/index...teries/varta-agm-dynamic-019-battery-g14.html 

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I ordered a couple of batteries from your link... 

Chris


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Paximus said:


> I ordered a couple of batteries from your link...
> 
> Chris


 Fingers crossed  

Stu


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Chris, 

I'm sure you did this but if not here's the Ross Tech "diagnosis" of your fault code: 

18361/P1953/006483 - Turbocharger Control Module 2: Defective 
Possible Symptoms 

Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON 

Possible Causes 

Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Turbo Charger Control Module 2 faulty 
Turbo Charger Control Module 2 faulty 
Turbo Charger faulty 

Possible Solutions 

Check Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Turbo Charger Control Module 2 
Check/Replace Turbo Charger Control Module 2 
Check/Replace Turbo Charger 

Special Notes 

When found in VW Touareg (7L) OR VW Phaeton (3D) with V10 TDI (AJS, AYH, BLE, BWF), check Turbo Charger Linkage and Linkage Seal for Damage. If no Damage is found replace Turbo Charger as described in TPI 2009705. 

Try and get someone local to check the linkages *(they stick)*. If it turns out to be worst case scenario pm me, I CAN help with the turbos! 

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Stu,

I assume the linkages are the ones between the turbo vane control motor and the turbo housing itself (ie nothing to do with the EGR valve)?

Are the linkages accessible (joke!) from beneath, once the noise cover is off?

Chris


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Paximus said:


> Hi Stu,
> 
> I assume the linkages are the ones between the turbo vane control motor and the turbo housing itself (ie nothing to do with the AGR valve)?
> 
> ...


Chris,

you are correct re the linkages, I believe they are accessible (my pet spanner monkey is away racing)!! Also I believe that you can access the controllers too without dropping the engine. It is also possible to get at and remove the EGR's and the inlet manifolds (they will look like a rich coal seam!! I had mine removed and then had a software delete for the EGR's when the ECU's were re-mapped. (a MASSIVE difference).
Also try a good long blast with plenty of ignition on and off sequences, this has been documented to help with sticking actuators on Toerags.

Stu


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Chris,

any progress?

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Stu,

Both batteries were changed OK, but no reduction on the number of times the turbos cut off.

They either cut out at startup the 2nd or later time the car is used that day, or within 3 minutes of startup, or else stay working normally for the whole trip regardless of running time. Stopping and restarting the engine clears the effect for the rest of the journey.

During a 450 mile three day trip round Cornwall last week there were 2 instances, each of which went away after pulling off the road, stopping the engine and restarting. During 300 miles over last weekend it happened twice.

The car's going in to the indy tomorrow to see what sense can be made of the linkages, if anything. Although I'm not clear what to tell them, for example, is it safe to move the linkages by hand with the engine stopped, or will the drive motors be stressed?

Cheers,
Chris


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## Appaz (Oct 30, 2009)

Sorry for interrupting guys....

I just have a similar issue....

Explanation, in short - was same turbo failure issue as mentioned by author. 6 months ago engine was taken out, both turbos changed. About couple weeks ago same issue reappeared again - turbos went away, restart - all good. Dealer says - left turbo is out. Or Turbo module. Can not tell for sure - turbine it self, or module is dead.

So my question would be:
1. How is it even possible, after half a year turbo (or module) is dead again? What could be the cause? Dealer just keeps telling - it happens, lets take engine out and change everything! (no comments...)
2. Can it be checked at all - is this a turbine dead or just module cooked?
3. Or could it be anything else at all? If so - what?
4. If it is a module - this means an engine has to be taken out anyway? No way to change module without taking engine out?


Thanks for your help in advance. I am kind of pissed off to rip out engine every 6 months...


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Ed,

Sorry to hear of your problems, especially after gritting your teeth (and wallet) and having the engine out...

My scan claims that Turbo Control Module #2 is defective/intermittent.

Now, the problem is that we don't have a full list of possible turbo scan faults, so I cannot tell if that message means in fact that (a) the vane control motor is definitely OK and (b) the vanes are adjusting the compression OK and (c) the turbo compressor mechanicals are OK and (d) the data comms are OK or (e) the message is telling the truth and the electronics are broken.

Without knowing what other scan messages there could be, in order to eliminate the others, it could be any of those faults.

Here is my guess in order of likelihood:

1. The linkage between the vane control motor and the turbo vanes is too stiff, either the external bearings or inside the turbo.

2. The controller PCB stops working properly under certain conditions, or the controller motor driver is weak.

3. Some other piece of information from a sensor somewhere else being fed to the Turbo Controller #1 or #2 is inconsistent.

4. The stock fault whereby the $1 'C' clip on the vane control linkage falls off, so the vanes don't move properly. I do not know if the engine must come out to clip it back on, maybe on one side it must, but perhaps you can reach the other side OK.

5. The vane control motor is stiff.

6. It is possible to leak oil inside the turbo, which will ultimately blow the engine, but I think/hope that is not the problem.

7. My logic says that the mechanical turbine is OK, because it would explode, or seize, or make a whistling or grinding noise if the bearings were shot or a blade was damaged. Every other ancillary on the car is designed for > 150k miles, allegedly, and surely this mechanical component would have been under the spotlight.


I will see if the indy garage breaks it completely tomorrow! The fault never happened before until the exact moment the main dealer changed the oil. Coincidence... 

Cheers,
Chris


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Chris,

as previously posted I have two turbos that a dealer took off to replace with new ones, they said the turbos were shot, I took a risk and bought them with the intention of stripping, cleaning and rebuilding. When I took them to a specialist to ascertain the bearing sizes etc I was gobsmacked when the tech said the turbos were in perfect working order!!!
They are built like truck turbos, they weigh a ton and would take something special to destroy them! The stupid little electronic controllers however.................... Why oh why do VW do these silly things?

Fingers and toes crossed though.

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Stu,

Well, first refusal on those please! I didn't reply before because I was wanting to see what the indy made of access to the linkages.

After all, I am a gullible optimist at heart!

Regards,
Chris

Edit - Stu, do you mean that as far as you know the 2 controller components on your spare turbos are OK? Or do you just have the compressor assemblies?


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Paximus said:


> Hi Stu,
> 
> Well, first refusal on those please! I didn't reply before because I was wanting to see what the indy made of access to the linkages.
> 
> ...



Chris,

I only have the turbos, NO CONTROLLERS! BUT I can put you in touch with a company that repair (and guarantee) the controllers, plus I can personally recommend them. Turnaround is approx 14 days.

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Re-worked controllers? Neat, I like skilled folks working on things they do well and understand.

Does anyone have any drawings of how the controllers sit in the assembly?

CB


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## Appaz (Oct 30, 2009)

Stu, could you share these contacts please, I may someday sooner or later find them useful - Turbo modules repair. 

And, sorry for a 1st grade question - there is no way to uninstall (and install back later) turbo modules without ripping out engine?


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

There is barely enough room to see the turbos, never mind work on them. 

I am sure the engine must be dropped for compressor access, although Stu said that some things like changing the controller cards are possible in situ.

Chris


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## Appaz (Oct 30, 2009)

Of course, to change turbos, there is no other option, I am aware of that, thanks 
But, as you mentioned, there was some point made by Stu, about turbo control modules - something may be done with them without ripping engine out. Stu, could you please describe this a little more detailed? What can possibly be done with turbo control modules without taking out the engine? If there is any option to repair a faulty turbo module without engine ripoff, I am willing to know about it!


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

My local garage had the car on the ramp today to lubricate the turbo linkages. They made up a lubricator extension nozzle using some pipe taped to a rod.

I took a couple of photos. Access is not very good. The motor's bank no.2 is the LH one, viewed as usual from the driving position. So I _assume_ that turbo #2 is on bank no.2, on the left.

We also renewed a couple of underbody rubber bungs that were missing. When the car is lifted on a UK ramp one of these bungs sits right under one of the big rubber lifting arms. This is probably why it had popped out sometime previously.

Chris




*This is the view standing level with gearbox, looking up and forward at the LH front wheel drive shaft*












*Here the connector plug is pulled off the motor to be checked. It looked OK.*












*The equivalent view of the RH turbo. Not much to see. The control assembly appears to be wrapped in heat resistant cloth, although I might be looking at the wrong part.*


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks for the pictures... has made me cross my fingers and the rest that I'll never need to go there.

Reminds me.. I've been meaning to mention that when my V10 is started from cold, on pulling away I can hear the turbos whine. Not in any alarming way... just on the limit of audibilty... but once the engine is part warm I can no long hear them. Not worried (unless anybody tells me to be).. just interested to note.

Regards

M


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Chris,

excellent pics (I'm terrible with a camera) you even managed a good shot of the gearbox oil cooler Herr Sagert changed for me!

I work Tuesdays and Wednesdays but I will grab the details for you re the controllers etc on my return. 

It's been difficult navigating the A1 today, what with my fingers and so on still crossed for you!

Stu


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## Appaz (Oct 30, 2009)

Hey, could you please tell, as I am bit blank - is there any possibility to uninstall turbo control modules without taking out the engine? 
Thanks


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I have no personal experience... but I can see that it should be possible to remove the contents of the LH motor drive box, although perhaps the drive shaft would have to be removed, if this is feasible.

The RH box is more hidden, but I guess if you are removing parts, then maybe that helps there too.

I don't know what is in the motor boxes - is that where the controller lives? The motors are surely positioned by signals direct from the engine ECUs. There are only 4 wires, so I don't think the motor box is intelligent. It is probably a motor control signal amplifier/driver.

Here is a better photo of the pair of Garrett turbos. You can see that the plastic motor cover (at the top of the assembly in this picture, facing the floor) is attached with about 6 spring clips.

The LH turbo #2 has the motor at right angles to the main body, the RH #1 has it at an angle and is fitted with a heat shield cloth wrapper (the one on left side of the photo is actually the RH one in the car).

Chris










photo via allegro.pl


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## Appaz (Oct 30, 2009)

Exactly, controller module is upper side, facing floor on your image.
Thanks for your input and guesses that this may be done. I will definately ask repair guys to look for an option to remove control modules without ripping out the engine.
Thanks.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Here's a diagram that seems to show adequate access once the drive shaft (flange shaft) is removed. But these drawings are made on the factory floor with the engine out...

Chris


*Left hand turbo controller access with Drive Shaft removed*








image (c) volkswagen


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Appaz said:


> Of course, to change turbos, there is no other option, I am aware of that, thanks
> But, as you mentioned, there was some point made by Stu, about turbo control modules - something may be done with them without ripping engine out. Stu, could you please describe this a little more detailed? What can possibly be done with turbo control modules without taking out the engine? If there is any option to repair a faulty turbo module without engine ripoff, I am willing to know about it!


 Hi, 

sorry for the delay in responding (wife has me on new bathroom detail)!!!!! 

http://www.store2go.net/shop/radesigns/p/option_page/4/ 

Link for controller repairs (you need to ring them (be patient they are busy)!!! They can also "help" with rebuiding the turbos, but be warned, if they are shot, they are shot! Very few spare parts available for this "VW only" Garrett turbo. 

Hope this helps someone, the company have proved reliable and honest, which these days stands for a lot! 

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Stu, 

Thanks for that info, it's really helpful! That company seems to be in the same yard as a large professional machine shop, maybe they use them for the engineering work. 

I'll keep posting any reference materials I discover, someone may be interested. 

The turbos are made by Honeywell under the Garrett label, with the spec below. The actuation is described as 'REA', for what it's worth. 

Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Update: 

The UK company that Stu tipped in post #29 have discovered that their repair procedures work for all Garrett electronic turbo controllers except VW Phaeton and Touareg.  

Looks like I might have to get acquainted with the engine face to face after all! 

Before that, it's got to be worth one more try at checking the linkage stiffness by removing parts first for access, I think. 

Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

OK, another update. 

My independent garage had the car on the ramp to remove whatever parts were needed to investigate the V10's turbo linkages this morning, perhaps to remove the drive shafts. In fact they didn't need to remove anything except the acoustic covers and the front wheels. 

They managed to disconnect the lower linkage C clip where the linkage arm joins the Garrett REA controller module's motor. In this way the stiffness of the turbo vane control linkage could be felt by pushing and pulling on the linkage arm and compared, left with right. They did not attempt to rotate the controller motor/servo, in case it is worm driven. They noticed that at rest the right hand #1 controller linkage motor pin is 'up' and the left hand #2 one is 'down'. I guess this is by design. 

The left turbo (#2) vane linkage was definitely stiff compared to the right. They made up a lube pump using some tubing to reach up in the small space available, to free up the seal/bearing where the linkage enters the turbo housing. First they used ATF to penetrate, then moved on to a sachet of 1100-degC Wurth SaBesto brake paste. In this way the linkage movement was freed up after some 10 minutes of mechanical manipulation. 

They repeated this for the right linkage, just in case. 

I couldn't get any better photos than the ones posted earlier in this thread. 

They commented that the left #2 linkage seal/bearing showed soot, the right was clean. I don't know what this implies apart from the obvious, that the left seal/bearing weeps exhaust gas. 

The car now responds smoothly and accelerates properly again. I'll clear the VCDS faults and monitor the situation. I expect it to re-occur in a few weeks/months, but we will see. 

I hope this helps someone else having the same problem. 

Cheers, 
Chris 



PS - I think I'll end up with Option 2 below, but it's nice to learn about the problem and try Option 1 first! 


*Option 1: Hmmm, we'll see what we can do for £50* 











*Option 2: We can install one new turbo for £3,500.*


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

A few days ago I came across this australian thread: "http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f75/touareg-v6-tdi-diy-maintenance-33831.html#post749857" in which according to VW AU, it is recommended to lubricate the VGT linkages every 15.000km with high temperature grease.
Perhaps if VW technicians had performed this simple task when Chris' phaeton was serviced he wouldn´t have had to deal with the turbo issues.
Therefore I have just lubricated my phaeton´s turbo linkage and I noticed that the linkage ends are not ball heads, such as in the Touareg pictures shown in the thread above, but pin type secured with circlips.
I also lubricate regularly the intake manifold butterfly actuator linkages with silicone grease as it is known that these tend to fail with time.
So I still wonder why those parts are not lubricated when the car is serviced at the VW dealers as it is a simple operation but we have to do it ourselves.

Gabriel.


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## Nick55 (Jul 10, 2012)

*to Praximus*

Can you tell us what is the result of the lubrication pls?


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

*Controller Update*

Hi (Chris),

I think that I may have a solid lead for exchange controllers  I have sent off an enquiry to the Fatherland, and hopefully when (if) I receive a positive reply I will of course post the link.

Stu


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Nick55 said:


> Can you tell us what is the result of the lubrication pls?


Hi Nick,

on my V10 the lubrication has proved wholly successful, Chris will no doubt let you know his own predicament.

I can only presume that the VNT mech starts to stick (as they all do eventually), thereby placing undue strain on the controller. Perhaps I caught mine early before any long lasting damage occurred.

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Nick,

After the lubrication episode the turbo switch-off happened less frequently for a week or two, but then it progressively got worse. Now it's switched off for the first mile of most journeys until I stop and restart. It sometimes works for several hours after that, but even then occasionally stops again during the journey.


Hi Stu,

I think I have tracked down the company that fixes up Hella/Garrett turbo controllers, that all the other vendors buy their stuff from, see here and click 'listings allegro' half way down the page. The question is to make sure that the firmware in the controller is correct for the Phaeton, because the same Hella part number is used on BMW.

The remaining doubt for my own fix is whether (a) the controller motor is weak or (b) the turbo vanes are stiff or (c) both. Does anyone know how to find out the VCDS data monitoring addresses for the turbo pressures and motor drive feeds? They are undocumented for the V10. This would probably provide the answer.

But for now the question is still open. I get the car back tomorrow, so it needs a decision soon.

I wonder how many V10s are currently afflicted?

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Chris,

the company I have is in Germany, but hey, the more the merrier!! The company (who shall remain anon until I get a DEFINITIVE answer) do state that they can fix the PHAETON controller. Here's hoping, all being well I should know by the weekend. 

Good luck on the car being well repaired, I am currently having the warranty repairs repaired!!

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Stu,

Looks like we'll have 2 options (for a week, until I discover that yours does it properly and mine doesn't!)

I still need those VCDS turbo addresses though. I hope Michael is back from his adventures soon!

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## Nick55 (Jul 10, 2012)

*to: Stu*

Thanx - Stu,

My service just performed the same operation ( I have a v10 2005 model at 102000km) and will post after I had a chance of a longer trip.
Nick


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Nick,

Did the service tech report what he saw and felt on the control linkage(s)?

Mine reported a stiffness on the left linkage that was freed up to some extent by firmly manipulating it for a minute or so (while disconnected from the motor) while lubricating the bearings with brake fluid delivered through a piece of tubing, followed by high temperature brake grease applied by hand.

He also remarked that he could detect soot where the left linkage shaft entered the turbo, but not on the right. However, access to the right without removing the drive shaft is very restricted indeed.

Chris


----------



## Nick55 (Jul 10, 2012)

*to: Chris*

Hi Chris,

Indeed one of the linkages was stiffer than the other (the right one). Weirdly enough it was the left controller that was indicating a problem and they noticed there a bit of oil leak (which they said was normal and not excessive!?). I have not had the chance to put the car on a longer drive yet to see if the problem would reoccur. After the service I have not noticed any change in behavior (the turbo still feels a bit slow to respond) but otherwise the car is working OK. The guys there said if this works (which they doubt) then they will recommend to make a full cleanup of the turbos by removing them and using http://www.innotecturboclean.co.uk/ fluid... I am not sure what to do now but will first explore a couple of longer drives before making a decision. I am first owner for 7 years now and had the turbines changed around 23,000km by VW - I am really pissed off that the local dealer has no idea about how to fix this and they only recommend to change the turbos. I have heard that people do that and still in few thousand kms have the same issue so I will first try all other options.
Any idea why the turbos can respond slowlier than usual?
Nick


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

My turbo response feels slow as well, although not all of the time.

Sometime the throttle response is more or less as expected, but sometimes I get little response below 2000 rpm, and sometimes it feels slightly 'lumpy', as if the vanes/linkages are reluctant to unstick.

Also there is never any power available from cold for 1 minute, which makes exit up the slope from my drive into traffic extremely sedate and slightly scary. It won't exceed 10mph regardless of accelerator position.

Having said that, the turbos performed faultlessly since I picked the car up yesterday from the dealer 150 miles away.

I'd love to just have the turbos cleaned, but since the engine must come out to do this it would seem safer to simply replace them. For a second time, in your case. That is really unfair. It makes one wonder what the quality of the replacements were the first time you had it done.

Chris


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Mine is also decidely sluggish when cold... but then most diesels are. But a couple of minutes on the road and it starts to be much more reponsive... mind you it's often 10 or even 15 miles before the oil temp is up to the magic 60C when I'm allowed to floor the throttle.

Effect is also present on V6 - but much less noticeable - and the oil is up to throttle bending temparture in about one third of the time.

But no reoccurence of the problem a week ago... but it's early days yet.

Regards

M


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*More on turbos*

This posting is unfortunately not yet for a fix, but just to update some more info on the 5.0TDI turbo in case it is of interest to anyone. It's as much of a memo to myself as I progress through this problem (turbo shut-down).

I acquired a removed MY2006 Phaeton V10 left (#2) Turbo assembly from ebay for €1 to learn a bit more about this object. In particular, how the vanes worked and how sticky the actuator arm is with a given amount of soot.


*755297-5003S turbo Assembly*











The complete LH turbo assembly for our V10s was originally Garrett 755297-5003S but has been updated in some way, so that the replacement number is suffix -5005S. This defunct one is the older part.


*ACTUATOR UNIT*

First, the actuator assembly, top right in the above photo. It drives the pressed arm running along the top to the casting, where it is shown detached. It's made by Hella and has two sides which split apart like a clam shell, with a two pin connector to feed the motor. It has three identification numbers:

-- Garrett assembly number (730314-, the same as a Ford Mondeo or Volvo)
-- Electronics side number (6NW 009 228-, the same as the Ford etc)
-- Gearbox assembly number (G-22, unique to the Phaeton/Touareg, as far as I know)

I can't get anywhere near the one on the car to read those numbers, but they should be the same.

This unit shows zero wear on the worm gears, which appear as new. The only sign of use is that the rubber gasket sealing the two halves is slightly buckled, but the interior is clean and dry.


*730314- The output shaft is at the back. It rotates only perhaps 35 degrees (guess) stop to stop.*











*6NW 009 228- electronics and G-22 gearbox *











*The motor position is sensed by the gearbox data wheel locating against the printed sensor pattern when the clam halves are re-assembled*












*TURBO MECHANICS*

The burnt gas enters into an annular chamber surrounding the turbine wheel and is divided into two paths; roughly half the gas (during high output) bypasses the wheel and flows direct to the exhaust. The other path is directed into another annular chamber at the base of the turbine wheel, although the way is obstructed by a ring of 11 vanes.

By rotating, these vanes can be made to more-or-less block the path (at idle) or allow a fair-sized opening (during power demand). If the path is blocked, all the (low flow) gas goes through bypass chamber and away, and there's no compressor shaft power. If the path isn't blocked, the (fuller flow) gas is divided between the bypass and the turbine wheel. The turbine rotates and powers the compressor shaft. The turbine portion of the gas rejoins the bypass flow and goes on its way.

Each vane has a supporting shaft through the base, the other side of which is connected to a lever which has a pin which engages in a matching hole in the control wheel's circumference. The control wheel is rotated by the actuator arm to rotate the vanes, and block or allow the gas flow.

The vane surfaces are obviously in the sooty gas flow, but the chamber containing the control ring and each vane's control arm is not directly in the flow.


*Vanes closed*












*Vanes open. The lever (at 8 o'clock) has only moved about 18mm to do this*












*Vane control ring (centre of image). Its chamber is not in the sooty exhaust path, although soot could accumulate here through the vane shafts*











*CONCLUSIONS*

Regrettably, none as yet. The actuator arm on this example was completely free, with operation by a very light finger pressure. This was to the point that we opened the assembly expecting it to be sheared off or otherwise damaged. It wasn't.

I acquired the unit to assess the sooting, but my chum who opened it up didn't get the picture and thoroughly cleaned the vanes before I could check. However, the amount of sooting can be seen on the base of the turbine chamber and in the control ring chamber, and it's more or less what you would expect to see in an exhaust pipe. Black with the possibility of scraping it off, but not deposits of the order of millimetres thick.

Next I'll send the actuator off for testing. If it passes, I may fit it on the car to see what happens. Garrett and VW say that the turbine/compressor and actuator must be changed as a pair. The vane control ring is a precision component, but it is loose in its housing for obvious reasons. So I can see that mechanical assembly tolerances might affect the idle boost pressure, so maybe they make a compensation adjustment in the factory 'per assembly' to meet emission specs at idle.

I doubt this is going to affect the substitution of an actuator much, unless the DTC monitoring is very particular about bank1/bank2 equality at idle.


Sorry for a long post but, like everything else on the car, it's a long story for a simple and sublime experience. 

Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

And if I do have to have the engine out, I may take advantage of Quicker-Fit's new "On Your Way" engine replacement service


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Chris,

superb post once again!!

I have got one of the turbos I bought fully rebuilt with new controller and working "to spec". I will consider having the second done after Christmas.

At the moment the "Lancaster Bomber" is performing flawlessly (except for the ADC refusing point blank to play, something for a warmer day)! I will report back after our pan european (pun intended) jaunt which starts on Thursday.

Depart Hull to Zeebrugge
Zeebrugge to Frankfurt (lunch)
Frankfurt to Salzburg (dinner)
Salzburg to Pula (destination)
Return trip via a couple of days in Munich

Expected mileage 3700 miles
Fuel cost, national debt of Mexico no doubt!! 150mph on an autobahn  equates to about 
16mpg 

I will try and post some pics of the P in various locations of "interest"

Stu


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Below are some pictures showing how the variable-vane device fits into the engine. There are more cutaway photos of this engine at this post: 
Cut-away view of the Turbo Diesel Phaeton Engine

Michael


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Thank you Michael, I have been unsuccessfully searching for that type of display photo for months! I should have asked!

Sadly, my engine does not have the chrome plated actuator arm. Stu's probably does. 

Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Stu,

That sounds a great trek! I'm looking forward to some interesting pictures of the P in some outstanding European locations... 

Have fun,
Chris


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Paximus said:


> Thank you Michael, I have been unsuccessfully searching for that type of display photo for months! I should have asked!
> 
> Sadly, my engine does not have the chrome plated actuator arm. Stu's probably does.
> 
> Chris


I thought all V10's had polished actuator arms!

Stu


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> I will try and post some pics of the P in various locations of "interest"


We'll be holding you to that....

Regards
M


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

n968412L said:


> But no reoccurence of the problem a week ago... but it's early days yet.


Although I didn't post it at the time, this has reminded me that I did have turbo cut out once since this post. Original post was 13/7, second occurence (since I owned the car... no idea about previous history) was on 24 September, 1766 miles later. Once again engine stop/start cycle cured it.

The initial conditions were identical in both cases. Car had done about 20 miles - enough to just about be thoroughly warm. Stopped for about 2.5 hours. Initial start then with pretty warm engine, everything seemed fine for about 2 minutes... but then I became aware that turbos not working.

Just to add this to the catalogue of symptoms we're maintaining...

Regards

M


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

n968412L said:


> We'll be holding you to that....
> 
> Regards
> M


Should I start with Hull? :laugh::laugh:

Any offence to readers in Hull is entirely intended 

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Mike,

I have a feeling that it's a long mid-power pull within 5 minutes of starting that's one of the triggers to cut-off.

There's some kind of 'three times in 5 minutes' count-up in the controller that determines whether it lets you continue or it puts a stop to proceedings.

I had a three hour drive the other day with no problems, then on the way back it cut the turbos with the engine warm while pulling out of a fuel stop at Rownham services back on to the M27, where the ramp is a quarter-mile up hill. One re-start and then it lasted a further hour until it cut out again while on over-run where the dual carriageway peters out, again a quarter-mile ramp but this time slowing down going downhill.

Then yesterday it cut out after 3 miles from cold start, both directions. It's not really viable to continue like this. I hope you continue to have better results.

Chris


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Hull is bound to look nice if there's a Phaeton in the foreground


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I think Beverley Minster is the nearest I have been to Hull and still enjoyed the prospect...


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I sent the spare Turbo Actuator off to be tested. They reported that "the motor is weak and the gears could do with replacing". So that means the electronics PCB Assembly works OK.

When I asked 'how weak?' they were unable to say. This is slightly odd, because any test for strength must include an assessment. I would test by having the output shaft pull on a strong spring and check the extension, as in Hooke's Law.

Also, as is seen in the 'before' photos a few posts above, the worm gears were pristine. Perhaps they meant the small motor gears that were hidden...

So it's now refurbished and I'll try it on the car. They put on an exchange motor/gearbox and resoldered the PCBA link connections.

Chris


Refurbished G-22 Turbo Actuator


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*Fitted the replacement Hella actuator*

Update:

The refurbished left turbo actuator was fitted in place of the suspect one from underneath the car, without removing a driveshaft, by my dextrous indy tech.

The removed actuator was half a year older than the refurbished one according to the casing stamp at Dec 2004, but otherwise had the same part numbers for the gearbox, electronics and assembly as were posted earlier.

Access would be easy if you had arms like an octopus, eyes on sticks like a slug and the strength and patience of an elephant. Instead, flat spanners (not the angled head ones) and a Snap-On 'S' spanner set managed the trick, but it took nearly two hours, one bolt flat at a time. The three bolts are firmly Loc-Tite'd in.

While everything was clear the turbo vane actuator arm could be comfortably accessed for test. It was found to be very free-moving. Imagine it is broken off inside the turbo and that's how free it feels. This is the same as the complete test turbo assembly I bought off eBay, so that's what to aim for, anything stiffer and it is not how it left the factory.

Now acceleration is smooth, the lumpiness is gone, the power is back at lower revs and my 'Phaeton Grin' has re-appeared!

Fingers crossed. I hope this has postponed or cancelled the engine removal.

Chris


*View looking up towards front left of the car with your head level with the gearbox*












*Close up showing the three mounting holes and the actuator arm dangling*












*Necessary*


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

I am glad to hear that your V10 is up and running again Chris! :thumbup:
Perhaps you could open up the actuator that you just have removed, play a little bit with it, and post some pictures in case you find something interesting.
Cheers.

Gabriel


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

:thumbup::thumbup:

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Perhaps you could open up the actuator that you just have removed, play a little bit with it, and post some pictures in case you find something interesting.


Thanks! Alas - I just had a look at the removed actuator and it is exactly the same in appearance as the replacement. Clean and dry inside, no sign of wear whatsoever on the gears, no loose wires. I was hoping a pint of water came out or there were signs of heat on an integrated circuit!

Maybe it really is the motors that get weak. After all, there was no mechanical resistance at all on the arm it drives, and with the reduction gears and a worm drive it should pull a horse.

In any case, I'll send it off for testing.

Cheers,
Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Stu:   etc etc!!!


My feelings exactly! Thanks for your support in this!

Still looking forward to some travel photos featuring Fearless Phaetons in Far Flung places - or failing that, your travelogue... 

Chris


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Chris,

That's great news, well done, a due reward for your effort and persistence.

Cheers,
S


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi V10 owners,

just completed 3k miles round trip to Croatia (travelogue to follow) I can report NO issues once again re the turbo problem that I experienced about a year ago.

However, the trip wasn't devoid of "interesting moments"

1; morning of departure noticed sidewall damage to OSF tyre (brand new)!!! Ferry leaving at 5.30pm very rare tyre size (295x30x21) Managed to obtain tyre (at exorbitant price of £360) and have same fitted by 2.30pm!!

2; same morning, boot lid refuses point blank to do anything!!!! VCDS scan reveals no problem!! Ran output tests and low and behold, the thing springs back into life!!

3; departing ferry, engage ignition, check headlights warning and no left hand headlight!! Oh great thinks I, trip around Europe in a one eyed monster!! Stop for (cheaper) Diesel, start car everything fixed and hunky dory!!

4; during trip it becomes obvious that the sidewall damage has obviously passed on some "aftershock" to the suspension! Wibbly wobbly and knock knock, yep you've guessed it, drop link on
OSF bushing is shot to sh*t!!

Apart from these little issues 2990 miles through Germany (HIGH SPEED) ,through the mountains in Austria and Croatia, everyone felt comfortable and relaxed. Plus, 31mpg!! Not to mention Diesel at about 90p per litre in Croatia!!

Stu


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Chris - thanks for all the useful info here. I've converted this whole thread into a PDF and I'll keep it forever!

Stu - good to know you had a good trip. Of course you'll expect me to point out that probably a deal of your trouble is self inflicted... you'd have had no trouble running on 18" tyres...

And remember that I've just had a flat on one of mine... 5000 mile tyre... and I thought there was something wrong with the suspension ... rather than a flat!

Regards

M


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

n968412L said:


> Chris - thanks for all the useful info here. I've converted this whole thread into a PDF and I'll keep it forever!
> 
> Stu - good to know you had a good trip. Of course you'll expect me to point out that probably a deal of your trouble is self inflicted... you'd have had no trouble running on 18" tyres...
> 
> ...



Thanks Mike!!!!!!!!!

I was waiting for that one! 

However 165k miles on I'm still happy with the big Conti's. I'm getting around 16k a set which I think is good value, especially at my usual cost of £135 per corner. Only had one puncture issue, both front tyres at the same time!!! Thats when the "glue" and compressor come in handy.

I'll have some pics up of the trip when I can remember how :banghead:

Stu


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## randyleach (Jan 5, 2008)

*2006 Touareg V10*

stu, i am reading your posts regarding v10 turbo issues. fault 18360 ; P1952-000 is what i am seeing. i live in mexico and they can not support the v10 here at the local VW dealership as they do not import that engine. they did read the codes for me and said a turbo had failed. the dealership in san diego (closest to los cabos) said 'turbo failure must be replaced"
well since then the CEL has gone off for a day or so , back on, off, and back on. and the power loss has gone away for periods of time only to return. 
i am about to ship to the US and would like your opinion about this as i do not believe my turbos are bad, possibly only the controller, or as you suggested a few years back: maybe the battery. your help much appreciated.
thanks


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

randyleach said:


> stu, i am reading your posts regarding v10 turbo issues. fault 18360 ; P1952-000 is what i am seeing. i live in mexico and they can not support the v10 here at the local VW dealership as they do not import that engine. they did read the codes for me and said a turbo had failed. the dealership in san diego (closest to los cabos) said 'turbo failure must be replaced"
> well since then the CEL has gone off for a day or so , back on, off, and back on. and the power loss has gone away for periods of time only to return.
> i am about to ship to the US and would like your opinion about this as i do not believe my turbos are bad, possibly only the controller, or as you suggested a few years back: maybe the battery. your help much appreciated.
> thanks


Hi,

proceed with extreme caution!! If the turbos are bad (unlikely) then the engine comes out and you replace them (approx $2000 each). If, however its just the controllers then its......... engine out and have the controllers rebuilt ($$$)? Chris (Paximus) might be your best point of reference here.

Thing is you will have to drop the engine either way so you might as well just put new turbos on anyway!!

One other thing, especially in the U.S. your engine shop guys will need VERY small fingers, there is less room to manoeuvre the V10 than with the W12 and V8 motors. Also be VERY careful with the Diesel that you use in the USA, plus, the oil is VERY specific, you might be able to get the Gulf version over there, alternatively its Fuchs.

All the best
Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Randy,

As Stu says, it will be great to find a US garage that knows what it is doing. Perhaps one with V10 diesel Touareg experience might help, depending upon which State you will be in, although generally a garage with a Phaeton-trained tech will be best for non-engine maintenance. But those guys are getting rarer.

For the turbos, are you able to get a printout or memory stick PDF of the garage computer scan that you can post to help the folks here?

The message says it's #1 actuator (right) reporting a problem, although that doesn't completely rule out a damaged turbine assembly. It is possible to change the #2 (left) actuator without taking the engine out, as described in this thread. It _might_ be possible to do the right by removing the drive shaft.

The repair of the actuator module costs about US$320 in UK plus the freight forwarder charges for shipping and handling the customs export/import repair documentation paperwork in your case. The repairers advise that they can't be swapped left-right, or replaced by Touareg ones, they have to be exact. I haven't tested this position. There are many so-called 'facts' that don't bear scrutiny, but when it's your own cash there's less incentive to experiment! VW and Honeywell say they can't be changed at all except as part of the turbine assembly, but this does not seem to always be the case.

I recommend trying to sort out the actuator first, because the cost of removing the engine makes it a no-brainer to replace both turbo assemblies at the same time which bumps up the total cost a lot.

Is it straightforward to move your car from Mexico to US? Is there some kind of treaty that helps? It's almost impossible to move a car from Europe to US, at least for more than 6 months or unless you have diplomatic status.

Regards,
Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*Turbo update*

Disappointing. I did 20 hours driving over Xmas and the V10's turbos cut out twice.

The DTC was again for the left (#2) actuator, which is the one I replaced with a refurbished unit. It had run for the last 2 months with no cut-out, whereas the old one barely did 100 miles between cut-outs.

Chris


18361 - Turbocharger Control Module 2
P1953 - 000 - Defective - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1974 /min
Torque: 237.0 Nm
Speed: 30.9 km/h
Load: 31.4 %
Bin. Bits: 00000000
Bin. Bits: 00100000
Absolute Pres.: 1326.0 mbar
Absolute Pres.: 1948.2 mbar


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Chris,
Have you ever checked the wiring that runs from the control units to the turbos? It sounds a bit odd that with a new turbo actuator you still get the same fault.
Cheers.

Gabriel


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Gabriel,

Thanks for the comment! It's time for me to look more closely! Although I think that a cable fault would result in a message like this (although I have never seen such, so maybe it doesn't exist):

xxxxx - Connection to Turbocharger Control Module 2
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

Next I would like to put a monitor on the two turbos while I drive. I am curious to know exactly why the ECU thinks the turbo is not responding. It would be curious if in fact the #1 turbo was sticking open but the fault report was that #2 is giving low boost...

Anyway, I might learn something. But first I need a laptop that has a working battery, or else to hook up my DC to AC converter off the cigarette lighter socket.

Then I need to know what blocks to monitor in VCDS, and they seem to be undocumented.

Chris


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi again Chris:
These are the engine measuring blocks regarding the turbo operation on my 3.0 TDI. Perhaps if you look for similar measuring blocks on your V10 scan they might give you some insight.

_010 Air quantities_
_1) Actual air mass_
_At idle: 210 ... 280 mg/stroke_
_At full throttle: > 1050 mg/stroke_
_At ambient air pressure 970 ... 1020 mbar_
_2) Ambient air pressure_
_[mbar]_
_3) Actual charge pressure_
_At idle: 950 ... 1080 mbar_
_At full throttle: > 2150 mbar_
_At ambient air pressure 970 ... 1020 mbar_
_4) Accelerator pedal position_
_[%]_
_- With exhaust gas recirculation switched off, e.g. due to_
_high intake air temperature the air mass at idle may be increased_
_In this case press the accelerator in short bursts and check_
_whether the air mass then decreases._
_- Additionally check air mass via basic setting of EGR_
_and turbocharger basic setting._

_011 Charge pressure control_
_1) Engine speed_
_[rpm]_
_2) Specified charge pressure_
_[mbar]_
_3) Actual charge pressure_
_At idle: 950 ... 1080 mbar_
_At full throttle: > 2150 mbar_
_At ambient air pressure 970 ... 1020 mbar_
_4) Charge pressure control value_
_[%]_

_034 Charge pressure control_
_1) Engine speed_
_At idle: 610 ... 810 rpm_
_2) Charge pressure adjuster activation_
_[%]_
_3) Charge pressure adjuster feedback_
_[%]_
_4) Charge pressure adjuster output stage_
_[%]_
_Permissible difference between activation and feedback at_
_Idle: maximum +/- 2 %_

I have some engine measuring block records of the engine iddling in case you need them for your investigation.
Best of luck!!!

Gabriel


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Thanks Gabriel, that's a great clue!

I'll have a look and see if they correspond, or where the similar blocks are, and report back what I find.

Cheers,
Chris


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Chris, and all V10 Phaeton owners,
I was just wondering that it has always been stated that the turbo actuators were faulty, however why could not it be the charge pressure senders?
The VCDS scans show two absolute pressure figures. I guess that the first one is the actual intake manifold pressure, whereas the second one is the target figure calculated by the engine controller. The % load figure,is the diference between the targeted figure and the actual figure.
That makes me wonder if the turbo actuator was right, as Chris' replacement actuator, whether a wrong pressure sender reading could lead to that particular turbo VCDS fault.
Just a thought...

Gabriel


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

To be honest, I can't find the pressure sensors! The manuals are sparse for the V10 engine. But I suspect they are embedded so deeply that the engine would still have to come out. There's no room to swing a Dormouse, let alone a spanner. Anyone? 

I haven't had a chance to look at the VCDS logs yet, I was too busy chasing the dealer after the ACC/Brake sensor fault that appeared during their service. 

I found dealing with the dealer at a technical level was mentally exhausting. They are great on coffee, but they are frightened by service customers. They much prefer selling (not Phaetons, obviously - there are no sales materials!) 

Cheers, 
Chris


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Paximus said:


> To be honest, I can't find the pressure sensors! The manuals are sparse for the V10 engine. But I suspect they are embedded so deeply that the engine would still have to come out. There's no room to swing a Dormouse, let alone a spanner. Anyone?


 Chris,
AFAIK they sit at the top of the intercoolers next to the upper air hose connection.
I hope it helps.

Gabriel


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> AFAIK they sit at the top of the intercoolers next to the upper air hose connection.
> I hope it helps.


 Ah yes, thanks, now I have them - 3 bar MAP Sensor (measures Manifold Absolute Pressure and temperature). 

VW part is 038 906 051C and Bosch part is 0 281 002 401, used on a load of VAG cars, around £35. 

It's a bumper-off job. I think I will need some headlight bulbs soon, so I'll wait for that! 

Cheers, 
Chris


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## THUNDERA (Oct 26, 2009)

Interesting finding this thread, there is nothing at Club Touareg about this - probably because everyone here has Phaetons. 

I have a 2008 V10 TDI Touareg that is having boost/turbo cut-out issues that is becoming slightly more frequent. Also have an oil leak on something hot resulting in a strong odor or burned oil after prolonged driving that makes its way into the cabin via the HVAC system. Going into the shop Friday for the oil issue. 

Should I have them lubricate the turbo control linkages, or wait to see if this could be a sensor related thing? 

Thanks!


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi, 

Relating to very old versions of the V10 turbos, in Feb 2010 VW released TPI 2009705/15 which implies they found a problem with missing CAN-Bus messages which cause occasional shut-offs. They made a production change to action this, updating the turbo assembly. Then the updated assembly was updated a few times too. 

There must be a problem with the actuator electronics hardware or software. They do say to check and clean the actuator electrical connectors as well. 


*Ancient turbo assembly part numbers for update* 










I think many of the turbo/actuator assemblies removed from V10s are 07Z 145 873B and 874B (these are Phaeton numbers - the Touaregs have slightly different actuator mount angles and therefore different actuator gearbox settings to correctly offset the linkage pin). They are replaced with suffix G's. 


There is also a Phaeton-only notice that while the engine is out to replace the turbos, check or change the vacuum units on the EGR coolers which can fail. Perhaps the Touareg uses different vacuum actuators or has enough room to change them without removing the engine. 

It seems that the sensors are reasonably reliable, judged by the absense of failure reports, although no news is not necessarily good news. 

I changed the MAF sensors, mostly because they are trivially easy to reach, but it made no difference to the frequency of turbo cut-outs. Only changing the actuator assembly for a "refurbished" - dubious - unit improved the situation. I wish we could find a source of supply of new latest-version Hella turbo actuators, but VW only sell the complete Garrett assembly, which requires engine removal to fit. 

The linkage rods should be lubricated with high temperature brake grease, although once added this might gum up and then need regular service attention. The mounting pivot on the linkage can corrode on to the fixed pin, although this still allows some movement. The circlip used to spring off, but that is now well-known and in any case puts up a permanent fault until fixed. 

That brain dump does not give you much to go on, I fear. 

Regards, 
Chris


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## THUNDERA (Oct 26, 2009)

Thanks for the info Chris. 

I can't help but to think the problem between the two vehicles is related. Most likely isolated to the linkage/actuator. 

I will mention the suspected problem to the tech at the service appt. tomorrow and see what he recommends.


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## gartracescort (Apr 4, 2010)

Mine did this this morning for the first time....no error messages or smoke etc, just no boost. A traffic light reboot fixed it. Now what? 

105,000 miles


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

After reading the VW TPI I quoted above it seems to me that it might be due to a combination of motor weakness in the actuator gearbox (either mechanical or from a reduced drive current from the electronics) and a design issue in the CAN-bus handling in earlier Hella actuators. 

It seems that it 'just happens sometimes' with the suffix B turbo assemblies and it's best not to worry and to get on with life. 

I think that eventually we will find a reliable source of new updated Hella actuator units which can be fitted without removing the engine. I will get back on this question and try and contact the factories concerned, when I have some time. 

That's my hope, anyway. 

Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> I'll start replying to the other thread as there is more going on there. But here's the white paper from garrett:
> http://www.turbo.com.sg/e-news/Garrett VNT - Non-repair buletin.pdf
> 
> Again, in the case of a stripped worm gear failure I believe that the controllers are losing calibration (or not supplying the correct feedback) which prompts the ECU to exceed the duty cycle at the "minimum vane open" position (no boost). When this happens the controller motor is forced to stop because the lever won't move anymore, rather than the motor stopping where it needs to.
> ...


I found the white paper from Garrett unconvincing. They are suggesting that their machining tolerances are such that it is impossible to set up a metal arm connected to a metal ring at a mechanical position where the set of vanes are _just_ opening without running a matching actuator gearbox at the same time?

That stretches my credulity. The turbos I have examined 'for fun' have considerable slop in the vanes and control ring, presumably that's a balance between anti soot-gumming design and controlled operation, but I refuse to believe that they are not made to tight tolerances of slop.

This paper looks more like the salesman once had a career with IBM (remember FUD? Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. It sells more product).

The huge pile of broken Garrett turbos in the skip was not reassuring, either.

If I were to replace the turbo compressors on my car (by which I mean the bits that whistle round very fast and explode if they run dry, as opposed to the PCB connected to a motor) I would certainly use genuine new ones, because the labour costs overwhelm the parts costs and I don't necessarily trust unknown refurb shops. But I would not do it for the reasons thay are propagating in the white paper.


Chris


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## heath emson (Apr 28, 2013)

*heath*



Paximus said:


> My local garage had the car on the ramp today to lubricate the turbo linkages. They made up a lubricator extension nozzle using some pipe taped to a rod.
> 
> I took a couple of photos. Access is not very good. The motor's bank no.2 is the LH one, viewed as usual from the driving position. So I _assume_ that turbo #2 is on bank no.2, on the left.
> 
> ...


 Just registered here, as looking at buying the v10 touareg, and your posts made up my mind on what to look out for, 
Thanks Heath


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Heath, 

Welcome! I hope you soon find a car and win that V10 smile! 

Turbos cutting out will always leave a DTC trace in a diagnostics scan, but a 'smart' vendor may have cleared the record. If you are buying a warranty, do so on a clean diagnostics report. 

Good luck! 

Chris


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## Rajalin (Jun 16, 2014)

*Changing the actuators*



Paximus said:


> There is barely enough room to see the turbos, never mind work on them.
> 
> I am sure the engine must be dropped for compressor access, although Stu said that some things like changing the controller cards are possible in situ.
> 
> Chris



Yup, you can indeed demount and change the actuators from beneath, no problems. You need small hands ofcourse but that's always the case when trying to do anything with to the Touareg.

I've had my turbos both reconditioned and also the actuators, all four was in bad condition!
The problem is however still there, as i have the same number 2 actuator that gives me a headache. The most annoying thing is that i just realized that there's a second battery in the trunk that also needs replacing, so i'm gonna try that for next and see what happens...


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## Cois (Jul 11, 2014)

Hi Guys
Just registered. I have the same issue but on my V6. Do I need to buy a new actuator? is there a modification I can do? 
As I am from South Africa I dont have much recourses in fixing these electronic components. VW tells me I need to buy a new unit.

Thanks
Francois


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## Kah103 (May 12, 2015)

*Blackpool turbo fixer*



EnglishPhaeton said:


> Hi Chris,
> 
> firstly, don't panic! The fault could very well be battery related, (I have had the same experience with the car going into limp mode, a restart usually clears the problem, and this was cure with the replacement battery) but not necessarily. A possibility is the linkage to the VVT from the controller, or the controller itself might have gone bad.
> Problem, VW will not sell you a controller, however there is a company in Blackpool that will repair and warranty them! It could however be a sticky linkage, but the binary codes I have never seen before.
> ...



Hi.. New to this, ive got the linkage problems with turbos on my V10 Touareg!! Can i get the detais of the Blackpool company that can sort this.. 

Karl


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## Sputterputz (Mar 19, 2004)

Kah103 said:


> Hi.. New to this, ive got the linkage problems with turbos on my V10 Touareg!! Can i get the detais of the Blackpool company that can sort this..
> 
> Karl




X2


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## WalterGraham (Oct 22, 2013)

*V10 Touareg turbo actuator*



EnglishPhaeton said:


> Chris,
> 
> I'm sure you did this but if not here's the Ross Tech "diagnosis" of your fault code:
> 
> ...


Hello , I need some info on a V10 Touareg bank 2 actuator error.
I have taken the actuator out and sent it for repair , but now it needs to be learned with the turbo, but 
What tool can do it inside the vehicle, because it is a hell of a job to remove the engine. I have a Vas tool to learn the A4 3L TDI VDO actuator, but it has a Hella adaptor aswell , but the plug does not fit the actuator. You also said that you have turbos can you give me a price please.


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## Sputterputz (Mar 19, 2004)

You need the adp-1 tool or similar. You can get one from Poland or I may consider renting you mine. 


Sal 

www.s-pautomotive.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Sal,

Please could you explain what the adp-1 tool does, and double-check the link above?

Cheers,
Chris


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## Sputterputz (Mar 19, 2004)

The adp-1 tool will program the start and stop points on your turbo actuator. It's used when you have rebuilt the turbos or replaced the modules. 

Here is the link to a company that sells them. 

http://en.actuator-tester.com/


Sal 

www.s-pautomotive.


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Tempting fate... but no cutouts on mine for 14 months and 10k miles..... 

M


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> The adp-1 tool will program the start and stop points on your turbo actuator. It's used when you have rebuilt the turbos or replaced the modules.


Thanks Sal, that's really interesting. It would be nice to be able to do proper diagostics on the cut-out problem by tracking what is happening to the actuator arms in real-time. I was even thinking of temporarily mounting a pair of diagnostics cameras under the engine, but access to view the actuators on the Phaeton is really difficult.



> Tempting fate...


Fingers crossed Mike! I had no cutouts this year until last month, when the old 'cut-out after stopping on a long journey and fuelling up' event occurred. If I get the turbos working immediately after starting again they continue fine (even just a kick of the accelerator on a slip road works OK), but if I follow traffic for 20 seconds after pulling out of the filling station then they may not come on-line until I restart. Cold starts are no problem.

I also suspect that clearing any Engine I and Engine II DTCs does not help the situation, the reset seems to force a re-adaptation which makes things worse until they re-learn.

There is very little information on the problem, but I can understand folks reluctance to post if they feel they might be selling their car in due course and don't want to jeopardise a sale for what amounts to an occasional minor event. After all, the car still cruises at third-lane speeds without the assistance of the turbos, although it's a bit disappointing when you realise what happened!

Chris


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Your symptoms are the same as mine. Although it's a pleasingly long time since my last bad experience, I had two in quick succession - both on the same journey... 50 miles up the M6. Stop for a coffee for 20 mins. Rejoin the M6 and although it's fine going up the slip road, after a few minutes of cruising I'm aware that there is now no boost. Until I can stop and restart the engine. As you say, will still hold 70 mph... but it feels very odd....

M


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## Sputterputz (Mar 19, 2004)

I think it's the modules fault. I think they drop communication periodically. Then coupled with them getting sticky due to their environment they become stuck and jamb the gears in the actuator. 


Sal 
s-pautomotive.com


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

n968412L said:


> Tempting fate... but no cutouts on mine for 14 months and 10k miles.....
> 
> M


Would you believe it.... not stuck turbo problem... but the other engine gremlin I have.... hasn't happened since 13/07/13 20+k miles ago.... some glitch on the bus and the two ECUs and the ABS controller lose contact and cause alarms and MIL on...... happened again today.

Easily reset with VCDS. No permanent problem. This is, I think, the fourth time it's happened to me over 30k miles - and it's always when the box is locked into a low gear and the engine on the overrun descending hills.

Odd....

M


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

When you get that fault, Mike, does it disable the throttle? Mine had a new ABS controller a while back, and someone else in the forum had the identical problem simultaneously to mine. They initially changed the ECU but eventually traced it to the ABS controller. It started as an intermittent problem but eventually failed completely. When it failed, the engine would start but the throttle was disabled, I managed to get it home by idling in third gear. Both dealers took forever to diagnose it correctly, mine was under warranty so I didn't care that much, but the other guy had a bill of around $6500 if I remember correctly, although I believe they reduced it after some haggling. In retrospect, I wish I'd taken Willem's (I think it was Willem) advice and diagnosed it myself by pulling fuses, the dealer eventually identified the ABS controller as the source of the problem by physically disconnecting it at which point the throttle started working again. I strongly suspect that pulling the fuse for the ABS controller would have had the same effect.


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks Martin - I'll keep that info in case I need it.

No - the only symptom is that get load chime, Engine Workshop in the MFD, and MIL on, and ABS failure (but that one self clears). No noticeable effect at all on the engine. The faults just reset.

I think Chris had the sensible view that it could be a wiring problem - some known corrosion issues on ECU connectors (I think)... but I've never had the energy to follow it up. 

But I guess any controller going west could give rise to this... funny thing is though it's always when going down hill in tiptronic mode....

M


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## goldee1985 (Dec 24, 2015)

*2004 VW Phaeton V10 5.0 TDI - HELP!*

Hello Everyone  

I am new to this forum, and wondering if there is any one out there that would be willing to help give my 2004 VW Phaeton V10 5.0 TDI some TLC??

I am struggling to find anyone that is willing to work on these.. They are beautiful machines. I really want to keep the car. I have owned the car for about 12 months now and things are starting to go wrong.

Does anyone have any contact information for an independent garage that is knowledgeable and willing to work my Phaeton? I don't mind travelling.

I have the following fault codes present:

18617 (P2185) Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor 2 Circuit High Sporadic

18360 (P1952) Turbo Charger ECU Defective

16685 (P0301) Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected


Many Thanks

goldee1985


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi goldee1985,

Welcome to the forum!

The V10 is a great car and I'm sure there will be some help available here.

Please would you consider entering some info in your forum Profile? (click on 'My settings' and in the drop down menu select 'My profile'). This means that your country and approximate location will then appear at the left of each post, so no-one will embarrass themselves by recommending garages in Huddersfield if you live in Iraq. Many folks also add a first name, but that's your choice.

The fault codes seem to be specific, but perhaps the wording depends on the scanner model. For example, 'Turbo ECU defective' is an unusual fault report, it usually just says that the turbo is defective. Was the scanner a Ross-Tech VCDS?

Chris


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## goldee1985 (Dec 24, 2015)

*2004 VW Phaeton V10 5.0 TDI - HELP!*

Hi Chris

Thank you for the friendly welcome to the forum. I have just updated my profile 

In all honesty, I am not sure whether the scanner used was a Ross-Tech VCDS. An independent garage plugged my Phaeton into their ECU diagnostic machine and presented me with the fault codes. 

Phaeton are lovely cars, and if possible I would like to keep mine for a long time to come. I would like to find someone I can trust to work on my Phaeton.

Would you be kind enough to recommend any Phaeton specialists? I am willing to travel, so long as I can find someone who is experienced and knowledgeable with Phaetons. The garages I have approached, say the Phaeton is too complex and just refer me to the main dealers.

In my experience VW main dealers do minimum work with maximum cost and always recommend the most expensive options. Very disappointing!

I hope you can help.

Kind Regards
goldee1985


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Hi Goldee1985

In spite of 4 years of V10 ownership, I can't really help you... I usually take the coward's way out and allow the dealer network to do its best. No real complaints there, but I never given them anything hard to do....

Ian (entwisi) swears by an independent in Bury.. not that handy for you. Worth maybe loitering in some other forums for other VW models? If it's engine problems then probably independents might have the relevant experience through mending V10 Touaregs. Not that many of those around - but 10x the number of V10 Phaetons....

Good luck

m


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## chdavis (Nov 11, 2009)

Any updates on this? I'm now experiencing this problem on my Touareg... :banghead:


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## Sir Brian Middleton (Aug 20, 2011)

*Quick fix - but we might have been lucky*

2006 V10, started exhibiting the problem this thread started on. After a 150 mile or so regular motorway run (M74//M6 so no traffic) a 50 ml run on the A66 at variable bumbling speeds when rejoining the M66 turbo power was not available, car will still motor along at 70-80, not like limp home though. Pull in, restart, all is well, full power. Similar fast/slow driving patterns replicate the fault.

Lennox Service Station local to me are a VAG independent who are not frightened of unusual vehicles, they have 6 Phaetons and a dozen or so Touraegs as customers. Not uncommon to see Bentleys, Maseratis etc in the bays. They were TVR dealers in the past so I guess they learned a lot about odd problems there! Their response to my V10 purchase some 6 years ago was a shrug of the shoulders and "it's a Volkswagen..." They did upgrade their diagnostic kit then to cover all Phaetons, Since then they have sorted all glitches (actually few) including a novel domestic plumbing solution to the common corrosion issue on the power steering return pipe.

So, they always go simple first. Full diagnostic showed a turbo controller 2 fault. Obviously both turbos shut off if one is wonky, imagine the damage if only one bank was running. Cleared all faults. Then removed controller plugs both sides - easy access for once. A bit of a poke about and switch cleaner. Tested and no further faults came up.

I then did a 1000 ml + road trip over 5 days. I do confess to possibly exceeding the UK speed limit of 70mph at times, possibly even by a factor of two at one point, difficult to resist when arrogant Audi drivers try and jam in a "Passat" who is keeping to the inside lanes - watching them disappear as a dot in the mirror whilst they ask "what the h~ll was that?" is one of the joys of the V10. But otherwise a well behaved, but rapid trip, with a lengthy bumble through Norfolk roads which should have replicated the issue.

Well, you guessed it. Not a blip or failure throughout the whole trip. Fingers crossed. No charge from the garage, he is including it in the forthcoming MOT!

Phaeton is in the body shop now for some tlc to springing trim and bubbling paint on door edges. supposedly just some touch up but looked more like an 80% respray when I saw it in the drying bay. Spraying the under sills in body paint to match, experiment to fight our dire Scottish weather and salt laden roads. New alloys going on, 18" - not changing the spec, understated design. DRL fit, the easy one via the fog lights initially I think. I will post pics.

Last time I looked on "how many left" there were only 37 RHD V10 LWBs registered in the UK, there are 4 times as many Rolls Royce Silver Ghosts! I note the values holding and even creeping up. Look after them folks - they will not build anything like this ever again.


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Sir Brian Middleton said:


> difficult to resist when arrogant Audi drivers try and jam in a "Passat" who is keeping to the inside lanes - watching them disappear as a dot in the mirror whilst they ask "what the h~ll was that?" is one of the joys of the V10.


You're making me question my sanity in selling mine..... and I'm struggling to find anyone to appreciate it. 

Enjoyed your post. And good luck with continuing, and I hope long, ownership.

M


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Brian,

I think the VWVortex threads contain all we currently know about dealing with the turbo problem. My V10 often (but not always) trips on starting again from a service station mid-way on a longer journey, that is to say, not just to the next town. But if I activate the turbos in the first 30 seconds from starting the shut-off does not occur. It can be tricky to do this, going from 20 to 50mph in a flash on a forecourt ramp is not always easy! So I will live with it rather than take the engine out.

All non-new vehicles have some kinds of idiosyncrasies (and some new ones too), and that goes for my mobile phone, computers (oh yes!) and even the ride-on mowers, not to mention the laundry equipment. These are first-world problems. I suppose Stephenson's _Rocket_ would not start some days!

You have done very well to find that VAG specialist. I was just presented with a £1750 bill for steering pipe failure (and some new drop links) but the main Phaeton-certified dealer returned the car with a flat battery, 96 DTCs including a non-operational boot lid and a flat tyre. Then they bombarded me with questionnaires about their service level quality.

I had a certain amount of steam coming from my ears, especially when I had asked them to replace the bass horn while the bumper cover was off, which they omitted to do. At least the bumper cover wasn't cracked, since I asked the tech to take great care. He himself wasn't P-certified, but the labour rates were enhanced as if he was. I'm now looking for my own VAG indy.

Mike, it is interesting to follow the current UK sales market for V10s. I see the occasional trader who clearly has no idea what it is, but I suppose the flock of 3 litre diesels will have to "pass on" before the car is seen to stand out. Hang on for another 8 years!

Chris


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## Matt_TDI16V (Jan 4, 2009)

I know I'm bringing up an old thread, but probably better than starting a new one.

I own a V10 Touareg these days and have started fixing them for owners as well. Here in the U.S., they're definitely unique and there isn't anything like it to replace it these days, so owners like myself are definitely much more motivated to fix them than some people are for the average vehicle.

Anyway, I did have a turbo control module defective code in bank 2 for my 2004. The fix? First, I noticed that the codes came on instantly from turning the key on (a bit different than what's generally experienced here judging by freeze frame data). Turns out the modules do a quick self check and cycle min to max as soon as terminal 15 boots the ECUs up. Clearing codes keeps it off until the key is cycled again. As soon as the key cycled, could would return. I removed the linkage from the bank 2 module, cleared codes and cycled the key again. This time, the code did not return. Upon further inspection, the vane mechanism was not able to move through its full range of movement.

I had to pull the engine out to replace camshafts anyway (sadly, the V10 suffers the same fate as most other 2V/cyl PDs in terms of camshaft wear). So I decided I would take a closer look then. I assumed since this was the same bank with the worse of the two cams that maybe the extra soot caused the vane mechanism to jam/stick. But, to my surprise, once out of the car and I could move the arm in the turbo through its full range of movement easily, it became obvious where the issue was. Corrosion where the VNT lever and the arm that links the VNT lever to the actuator had corroded where the VNT lever attaches. Removed it, thoroughly knocked the rust out of the inside of the arm and the outside of the VNT lever, reassembled with a liberal amount of high temp caliper grease and 14,000 miles later, it hasn't been a problem since. 184,000 total miles on the vehicle.

Now, I do have a customer's vehicle here that sets a control module defective code very occasionally on both banks. Freeze frame indicating that it's happening like most of the previous posts here, under load, below 2000 RPM usually and the requested vs. actual is not matching. Unfortunately, reproducing the issue has proven difficult. The few drives I've done with it they have worked flawless.

BUT, just to add a little more insight from what I've observed with these turbos: they have to be able to be controlled independently. In fact, the aforementioned Touareg V10 of my customer's I just spoke of, it also had a fault for EGT sensor #1 on bank 1. Prior to replacing that sensor, when I went for a test drive I noticed that bank 1 was actually requesting almost 200 mbar less than bank 2 and the turbo was indeed responding in kind. Both were still requesting more than 2 BAR MAP, but it was interesting to see a difference when you'd expect them to be identical.

After replacing the EGT sensor and clearing the codes, I went for another test drive, DPF regen initiated and this time I notice that the boost pressure request is identical for both banks, as it should be normally.

Why all the detail? Well, the modules are wired to the same power and ground sources and the same powertrain data bus. BOTH engine computers, BOTH turbo modules, the ABS and the transmission computer are ALL sending and receiving data on those same two wires. These actuators are not wired individually to their respective ECU. This means being a 2 bank, 2 ECU and 2 turbo system, those turbo control modules have to know which bank they're on and thus have to be programmed to send and receive data packets specific to the bank they're on.

That is where I believe so many people are running into problems with aftermarket module replacements is no one seems to be aware of what needs to be programmed for the turbo control modules to be able to recognize which respective bank it is supposed to send and receive data for. I don't believe that it's necessarily critical for it to be matched to its own turbo, but more critical that it is programmed to send and receive data for bank 1 or bank 2. Not necessarily "matched pair" of turbos either. You could in theory replace just one turbo and it should function just fine so long as that module was infact correctly programmed for the bank that turbo is intended to be installed on.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Matt,

Now that's the most helpful thing I have read about the V10 turbos in years. 

It explains a lot. It's also unfortunate that to fix it would mean engine out for me, but now, at least I know!

Thanks for doing that research, most interesting.

Chris


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Checking my actuators is on my to-do list this weekend. I've got an odd one with my turbo control module 1 on my new turbos. It shows up as defective when the ignition is on, if cleared and you go back into faults straight after clearing, the fault is instantly back again without cycling the ignition or starting the engine etc. Wish I'd kept my old actuators!
Going to try some contact cleaner on the plugs as a starting point, but the turbos and actuators are new, so hopefully something simple... Don't fancy pulling the block again!


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