# Preventative Carbon Buildup Cleaning?



## twiggs462 (Mar 20, 2007)

I have a 2.0 Tiguan with the 4 Cyl Turbo EA888 Gen 3b engine. Being that the US only had direct injection I want to keep the car running well. I know that snake oiol exists but I have heard that this product can work well on engine that are not heavily soiled:









Amazon.com: Revive 1449-9400 Turbo Cleaning Kit: Automotive


Buy Revive 1449-9400 Turbo Cleaning Kit: Turbochargers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



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Anyone know if it is safe? My assumption is that if I can keep the intake relatively clean then I wont have to worry about doing a blast cleaning later.

I change my oil every 7500 miles and I give it the "Italian tune up" one a week on a nice highway stretch. I use high grade fuel (i do believe the additive so help keep the engine slightly cleaner.

Thoughts on these cleaners? What is your experience?


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## joedubbs (Nov 1, 2004)

GDI Fuel/Air Induction | BG Products, Inc.

I now have a second direct injection car and am considering this system; I am interested in a solution that doesn't require pulling the intake manifold off for media basting. I'm just replying in hopes that we both find some answers


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## wariozrx (Jan 18, 2010)

has anyone thought about using SeaFoam? SEA FOAM CASE STUDIES – GDI REVIVAL


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## gixxerfool (Dec 1, 2020)

joedubbs said:


> GDI Fuel/Air Induction | BG Products, Inc.
> 
> I now have a second direct injection car and am considering this system; I am interested in a solution that doesn't require pulling the intake manifold off for media basting. I'm just replying in hopes that we both find some answers


I have used this system and have not seen great results. I ended up needing to pull the intake anyways to clean the valves. YMMV


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## morbs_gt (Mar 21, 2008)

wariozrx said:


> has anyone thought about using SeaFoam? SEA FOAM CASE STUDIES – GDI REVIVAL


Was about to suggest seafom but OP seems to be looking at options for the turbo, or spraying something via the intake.


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## jerseynoob (Nov 29, 2010)

twiggs462 said:


> I have a 2.0 Tiguan with the 4 Cyl Turbo EA888 Gen 3b engine. Being that the US only had direct injection I want to keep the car running well. I know that snake oiol exists but I have heard that this product can work well on engine that are not heavily soiled:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So called 'cleaners' are trash just designed to empty your wallet as fast as possible.

Only reliable way to clean the intake valves is to get a 'carbon cleaning'. $700 to $800 from a VW shop. Don't know the price from a VW dealer. Job requires the intake manifold to be removed, find a good shop to do this. Some shops might charge half that, but they will reuse the old seals on everything which greatly increases risk of failure resulting in boost leaks, and various codes, which you could end up spending more money on trying to getting fixed.


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## wariozrx (Jan 18, 2010)

I’ve never used this - but seafoam claims you can use it with GDI cars. 









Sea Foam Spray | Intake Valve and Top Engine Cleaner and Lubricant


Sea Foam Spray Top Engine Cleaner & Lube works through an engine’s upper intake to clean harmful deposits from intake valves and chamber areas.



seafoamworks.com


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## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

Its a problem. Good video of the carbon caking up on intake valves after only 10k miles! ---> 








Carbon Build-Up, Intake Valves at 10k Miles, Surprising


For Direct Injection engines only, this is a problem. Only oil I know that claims to counter it with chemistry is "Valvoline Modern Engine", but it's not VW-spec oil, only up to the dexos1 level of performance & longevity. I don't like walnut blasting every 30k miles. Any other alternatives...




www.vwvortex.com


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## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

I'm using "Valvoline Modern Engine Oil" since they have patents and claim to have some chemistry there to keep the valve stems more carbon-free. Valvoline has stopped making that product, but some is available still in stores, Amazon, walmart, for now anyway. Who knows if it really works? The chemists & engineers at Valvoline says it does something for us, via oil mist circulation thru the PCV valve, & a little oil that gets on the stems past the stem seals for lubrication there.

Another thing big truckers use to de-carbon their engines, which certainly (proven) works on the rings, is "Valvoline Premium Blue Restore" 10w-30, available from Cummins shops or on the google internet somewhere, hard to get. . That weight can be used in our 0w-20 engines in the summer only. Bit too thick when cold. .... I wouldn't use something of that weight unless temperatures outside are over 60 deg F every day. 
They use a high aniline point in the chemistry, with POE base oils, etc., and depend on PCV circulation hitting the intake valve stems, and valve stem seal normal seepage, to get some "whatever" on the valve stems. I can only read the patents & listen to the successful use by truckers. 




Patent at: US20170029734A1 - Lubricant for preventing and removing carbon deposits in internal combustion engines - Google Patents

Comments section of the carboned-up rings trucker saga on youtube:
"_This oil is a carbon-dissolver. It gets rid of carbon fouling up the piston rings. That's how it lowers oil consumption, probably in any engine, diesel or gasoline, although Valvoline specifically created this to "solve" the Cummins ISX 15 engine problems that were angering truckers. ... It's expensive because it's unique, but it does also have super-high-priced PAO, POE, and AN base oils, It's base oils look almost exactly like Racing Oils, no kidding, that is the good stuff, very stable, practically refuses to oxidize over time. Valvolines patents for this talk about it's Aniline Point, etc., too technical for non-chemists, but it simply works to dissolve carbon. I think it's mostly the POE in it that dissolves carbon, although I'm sure it's boosted by the other elements, all too technical. ... Valvoline puts the usual typical Valvoline Premium Blue additive package into this, so I think you can use this oil in about any vehicle you want, from a Prius to a Silverado, gasoline vehicles. .... If you order it, make sure you see the word "Restore" in the name to make sure you are getting the right oil here, to avoid confusion with other Valvoline oils. ... You only have to use this oil about every 50k to 100k miles. It's expensive so you won't want to use it too often anyway. ... This oil's HTHS is about 3.6, so only use it in the summer time in vehicles who usually use an xw-20 or xw-30, but it will be fine in the summer for those thin-oil engines out there. ... Use it at the track if you have a hot rod or race car, & drive it around town, no problem, plenty of protection, lots of HTHS for that, & the best base oil mix I"ve ever seen in an oil._ "


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## Corrado1978 (Nov 29, 2018)

gixxerfool said:


> I have used this system and have not seen great results. I ended up needing to pull the intake anyways to clean the valves. YMMV


X2 don’t waste your Time and money with seafoam(i do it) i finished with the full job. It’s pretty simple if you do mechanic. It take me about 7-8 hours the first Time and 5-6 hours the next time ( i do it every 50k now preventive)


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## ribbit (Jun 4, 2012)

The problem discussed is for Direct injection engines,it has to deal the intake valves which is pre detonation,anything that deals with pistons and rings is post firing of the combustion cycle and exhaust. All the stuff about using additves to clean the combustion and exhaust valves misses the point.
I have not heard of a product or system that prevents carbon build up on the intake valves. Intake valves are closed when combustion takes place.


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## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

ribbit said:


> I have not heard of a product or system that prevents carbon build up on the intake valves. Intake valves are closed when combustion takes place.


 In reality, oil mist gets circulated through the PCV system and impacts the back of the valve stems where carbon buildup occurs. 
The carbon on a DI engine on the back of the intake valve stems is from this oil. Some carbon mass (soot, hydrocarbons) also comes from EGR, which does combine with the oil coating on the back of the intake valve stems. 

Also, motor oil seeps, normally, in small amounts past the valve stem seals, adding to the oil coating the back of the valve stems.

Valvoline took an approach to cleaning the valve stems by putting something in the motor oil, specifically with the "Valvoline Modern Engine Oil" product. It would be too boring to most non-tech readers to try to detail or name the chemistry here. I wrote some notes on it in previous posts.

Another Valvoline product that does have carbon-eaters/dissolvers in it is "Valvoline Premium Blue Restore" VPBR motor oil, which is proven to take carbon off the ringlands, which is a technical accomplishment. See posts above. When VPBR gets into the PCV system, it should help to dissolve carbon off the back of the intake valve stems.

As for other products, like SeaFoam or oil additions that have PEA chemical in it, like "Gumout multi-system tune-up", it could evaporate up through the PCV system and contact the back of the valve stems, sure. Not certain those would really work, chemically speaking. Can't recommend it.

Spraying something down the air intake path doesn't appear to do much from what I've seen.
Walnut blasting works yet most don't want to pay for that or trust a shop to be carefull with the walnut shell dust not getting into the combustion chamber when they do it, or the residual might not be air-blasted off enough.


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## twiggs462 (Mar 20, 2007)

I just talked to a mechnic that stated for the most part carbon build up is a concern in GDIs for folks that do not drive hard... He claims that running at 3K RPM for an extended drive after an "Italian tune up" will clear most of the problematic carbon build up. While it will not rid all of the carbon - it breaks off most of the loose carbon. Doing this every so often is good measure and will keep the path clear. Thoughts on this.

I do change my oil with Castrol Professional Synthetic 0w-20 on this car every 5k so I am not running old oil ever.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

wariozrx said:


> has anyone thought about using SeaFoam? SEA FOAM CASE STUDIES – GDI REVIVAL


Seafoam is not effective. I have tried it on my 08 Passat.

All the smoke you see... you may be thinking it's working, but it's the sea foam is getting burned


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## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

twiggs462 said:


> I just talked to a mechnic that stated for the most part carbon build up is a concern in GDIs for folks that do not drive hard... He claims that running at 3K RPM for an extended drive after an "Italian tune up" will clear most of the problematic carbon build up. While it will not rid all of the carbon - it breaks off most of the loose carbon. Doing this every so often is good measure and will keep the path clear. Thoughts on this.


Mechanic is probably wrong. Here is an example, with proof, that valve stem carbon build-up can happen at low miles (only 10k miles!) after driving it crazy: Carbon Build-Up, Intake Valves at 10k Miles, Surprising
Remember, high revs cause more PCV oil mist hitting the intake valve stems, as in this 10k-mile example. Driving easy & normal street driving may have far less oil mist than this example.



twiggs462 said:


> I do change my oil with Castrol Professional Synthetic 0w-20 on this car every 5k so I am not running old oil ever.


The example above changed oil often too, with Castrol. Since Castrol Pro 0w-20 hasn't been available for about a year (discontinued), the dealership's VW-branded Mobil 1 ESP X2 0w-20 they now have should work as well or better, given the plethora of certifications it carries.


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## MrFluffykens (Apr 8, 2021)

As far as I've seen and read from others who have done extensive mileage testing and "DIY fixes", there are none. Anything ran through the injectors is useless, as the injectors aren't behind the valves on non-MPI cars. Anything sprayed through the intake tract isn't strong enough to break it down once the buildup is there. Maybe if you bought the car brand new (or did a real carbon cleaning) and then used the intake tract cleaners every oil change? But definitely not once you have 20k+ miles worth of buildup. 

The only long-term proven solution is to add MPI to your car, but for most that's an expensive and cumbersome endeavor.


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## xabhax (Nov 3, 2019)

Seafoam and the like only work to keep the valves from being carboned up. Once they are there isn't any easy way to clean them.

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## Steely33 (Jan 5, 2022)

Walnut blasting is the only way to go in my opinion every 50k


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## Corrado1978 (Nov 29, 2018)

The only way to avoid carbon is
1- install mpi set up
2- do your oil change at 8-10 k km max after that the oil is to old and it contaminated with gaz/water(humidity) and with the grade spec many vapor come up and retirn to the intake 

I have a mk7 gti 2015 lease and i do the minimun maintenance on it up to 10k km the engine don’t take oil but btw 10 to 15 k km the engine consumed up to 1.5 liter

On my golf r mk7.5 i do the oil change every 7-8 k km and the car run like it should be no oil consumption. I check the hose at the entry of the intercooler and no oil on it( it’s a good way to validate it my gti when i do the clean up i found that the hose have a lot of oil residu on it)

But for now the engine is ok but it still a DI and one day it will happen and i will do the job


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## New 1.4 Owner. (Jan 8, 2022)

twiggs462 said:


> I have a 2.0 Tiguan with the 4 Cyl Turbo EA888 Gen 3b engine. Being that the US only had direct injection I want to keep the car running well. I know that snake oiol exists but I have heard that this product can work well on engine that are not heavily soiled:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No way around it.
DIY learn you tube VW dealer./Hard to find but they exist.Fair reputable Repair shop blast cleaning is the only way. Pay now or pay$$$ later.


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## DruzeTito (Apr 2, 2003)

I don't see why you couldn't blast a can of CRC valve cleaner every 15K miles or so to PREVENT build up. There are plenty of people out there that have tried it and conclude it is effective.


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## TheExile69 (Mar 14, 2017)

+1 with others, seafoam and additives is a waste of money. Do it right the first time, walnut blast it. Seems intimidating for a dyi, but it's pretty simple.


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## TwoToTango (Apr 24, 2021)

VWmechatronic said:


> Its a problem. Good video of the carbon caking up on intake valves after only 10k miles! --->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Using the CERETEC crank case fluid more likely allows the oil to stick onto serfaces for longer. It will definitely aide in suspending carbon and allow the regular oil to continue lubricating. BUT, when you have carbon more "Highly" concentrated splatting over the intake valves - it will definitely be more dense.
Run the same test, but w/o the CERETEC and you will see considerably less carbon build-up.

Just use quality lubrication, and choose the ones that have higher HT/HS numbers - this equals LESS BURN-OFF / thus, lower carbon footprint. This, plus increased OCIs will keep your intake tract cleaner for much longer. There are a number of GF-6 brands now that do list as "Carbon Neutral". However, that is (Quantity Of Carbon) vs (Quality of Burn-off).

*NOTE*
I am certain that CERETEC is a stout product; however, every oil manufacturer will typically recommend NOT mixing other fluids with theirs. There is a reason - as the properties will change.


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## Roald (11 mo ago)

Doing the blast is easy. Really just watch some videos and do it. All the chemical options have shown to be mostly in effective on our cars.
The first time doing it will take a bit longer. But I can get the whole thing done in 3~hrs now if I really take my time. Do yourself a favor and save money on chemicals for the right tools to do this.


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## Sorry Officer (3 mo ago)

I cleaned my intake valves last week the old fashioned way (with elbow grease and 4 hours of my day) getting the manifold off really isnt that hard and there are no real tricky parts, just awkward. Just be methodical. devoting 4-5 hours of maintenance toward a car every 50 thousand miles really isn't that much.
That being said, I will use a media blaster next time to save even more time and get better results.
As far as using sprays/cleaners... They do not work. I pulled my intake manifold off on Saturday afternoon and then left the valves soaking in a bath of Sea foam over night. The next morning there was literally no difference and I hade to scrub them just as much as the ones that were not soaking due to the valve being open. Don't waste your money on cleaners for the valves, invest that money in a media blaster and a bag of walnut shells and do it properly


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## C00KIE M0NSTER (Oct 13, 2011)

I pulled off my intake manifold and took a peek inside. I was expecting a lot more gunk but it looks like it's just on the stems. Engine has over 60k miles. Do the valves even need to be cleaned or would I even be able to get the carbon off of the stems?


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## Sorry Officer (3 mo ago)

Personally, I would clean them regardless of where the build up is. I mean, you've got the intake off, why wouldn't you clean what you can? The media blaster I ended up getting from Harbor freight was $30 and another $25 for more than enough crushed walnut shell to do the job many times over. My valves were a little worse than yours at 74k miles but not by a lot. The difference it made in responsiveness was pretty noticeable.


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## DieselKraken (5 mo ago)

Sorry Officer said:


> Personally, I would clean them regardless of where the build up is. I mean, you've got the intake off, why wouldn't you clean what you can? The media blaster I ended up getting from Harbor freight was $30 and another $25 for more than enough crushed walnut shell to do the job many times over. My valves were a little worse than yours at 74k miles but not by a lot. The difference it made in responsiveness was pretty noticeable.


Did you notice a change in mpg afterwards?


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## Sorry Officer (3 mo ago)

DieselKraken said:


> Did you notice a change in mpg afterwards?


Not anything significant but I haven't really been on any decently long journeys since and the trips I have taken have been in town and traffic so it's hard to really tell. The car does seem more peppy since doing it


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## Tseg (21 d ago)

Late last year I bought a used 2015 Tiguan for my son for college with ~62K miles. Based on some research I had the spark plugs changed at purchase and got a synthetic oil change. The car ran great for ~10K miles but a month ago my son advised a check engine light came on. I took it to the dealership for a synthetic oil change and to diagnose/resolve the check engine light issue. They called and advised it is a turbo error code AND it needs a carbon cleaning, intake gasket and injector seals... + the planned oil change and brake flush and the total bill quote is $4700, nearly 1/3 of what I paid for the car. Yikes! Unfortunately, I am not familiar with European repair shops and based on some research it sounds like both issues are not uncommon for this vehicle. My experience/gut instinct tells me to not cut corners resolving issues. Maybe I can save $500+ with an independent shop, but at this point I'm going ahead with the dealership repair and praying for another 70K miles before another big repair is needed. If issues remain after the repair maybe I'll have a little bit of recourse by using a dealership?

At least this thread confirms that the dealership advising the need for gasket and seals is the correct approach for the carbon issues, so I have some comfort I'm not totally being hosed with un-needed work.


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## DruzeTito (Apr 2, 2003)

Tseg said:


> Late last year I bought a used 2015 Tiguan for my son for college with ~62K miles. Based on some research I had the spark plugs changed at purchase and got a synthetic oil change. The car ran great for ~10K miles but a month ago my son advised a check engine light came on. I took it to the dealership for a synthetic oil change and to diagnose/resolve the check engine light issue. They called and advised it is a turbo error code AND it needs a carbon cleaning, intake gasket and injector seals... + the planned oil change and brake flush and the total bill quote is $4700, nearly 1/3 of what I paid for the car. Yikes! Unfortunately, I am not familiar with European repair shops and based on some research it sounds like both issues are not uncommon for this vehicle. My experience/gut instinct tells me to not cut corners resolving issues. Maybe I can save $500+ with an independent shop, but at this point I'm going ahead with the dealership repair and praying for another 70K miles before another big repair is needed. If issues remain after the repair maybe I'll have a little bit of recourse by using a dealership?
> 
> At least this thread confirms that the dealership advising the need for gasket and seals is the correct approach for the carbon issues, so I have some comfort I'm not totally being hosed with un-needed work.


Have them just fix the turbo problem. That bill is outrageous. I mean you're not getting a new transmission or anything. Brake flush is 100 bucks and a 62k mi vehicle is not likely to have severe carbon buildup, so they're just throwing that in there to milk your wallet.


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