# Which Flash is best???????? APR<REVO<UNITRONIC???? FOR B6 PASSAT



## jaysvwgti (Nov 5, 2007)

As the title states. Looking to flash, just cant figure out which to choose. Went and had the 5 hr revo trial for stage 1, not too impressed, lmk what you guys and gals think, thanks in advance


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jaysvwgti said:


> As the title states. Looking to flash, just cant figure out which to choose. Went and had the 5 hr revo trial for stage 1, not too impressed, lmk what you guys and gals think, thanks in advance


 
We discontinued trials almost 2 years ago, while some dealers might still have them to install I don't know anyone actually still doing them.

The trials also need to be setup just like the full versions. Do you know if they actually setup your boost timing and fuel?


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## Tmsracing37 (Aug 25, 2008)

jaysvwgti said:


> As the title states. Looking to flash, just cant figure out which to choose. Went and had the 5 hr revo trial for stage 1, not too impressed, lmk what you guys and gals think, thanks in advance


 What didn't impress you about Revo trail flash? 

Used Revo's stage 2 and 2+ tunes on K03 and then used thier Stage 4 tune when I was GT30 and stock block. I can tell you none of Revo's tunes were not lacking anything compared to others.


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## jaysvwgti (Nov 5, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> We discontinued trials almost 2 years ago, while some dealers might still have them to install I don't know anyone actually still doing them.
> 
> The trials also need to be setup just like the full versions. Do you know if they actually setup your boost timing and fuel?


 Not quite sure. It was recent as well. within the last year, and it was one of your dealers in nc. Just didnt seem to have the umph..... so to say that i expected.


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## jaysvwgti (Nov 5, 2007)

Tmsracing37 said:


> What didn't impress you about Revo trail flash?
> 
> Used Revo's stage 2 and 2+ tunes on K03 and then used thier Stage 4 tune when I was GT30 and stock block. I can tell you none of Revo's tunes were not lacking anything compared to others.


 Powa... i guess. I just thought it would be moar.....


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

Eurodyne


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## shepherdgti (Jan 5, 2011)

high_octaneGTI said:


> Eurodyne


 eace:


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## U.G. MKV (May 31, 2010)

Have been running Revo for 5 years with zero issues. Been stage 1 through 2+ and not one compliant. Get yourself a sps and your all set.:thumbup:


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## americanh3art (Nov 27, 2012)

I have REVO in my car for 4 years from stage 2 to 2+ to K04. Had issues that others K04 users have as detail here (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5311601-For-the-REVO-STG-III-K04-guys............) and *the REVO customer support was TERRIBLE* 

3 of my friends have the same engine (2.0t FSI) with APR - I've done runs with them and there is no clear winner, we always end up tie or very close to it 

They can change their tunes with a switch on the cruise control - I have to bring my laptop out, log and use the SPS plus to change a tune and in the end, my performance was just the same as theirs - except when they have issues APR's customer service has amazing to them. I even contacted APR myself for support on my APR HPFP and there is night and day difference between customer support and how I was valued as a customer. 

In the end, do what you want, I much rather have 5 less HP and amazing support then 5 more HP with TERRIBLE customer service. The only reason I picked REVO over APR was because I thought I could make more HP with the SPS+ fine tuning but now I regret my decision soarly after the terrible customer service I received and the extra 5HP i may or may have over my APR friends is def not worth it.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

OP, if you're not going to go past stage 2+, pick whoever is closest or has best deal at time of purchase. If you're going to go bigger turbo, well, you'll get some good input in the B6 area.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

*GIAC* 

eace:


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## U.G. MKV (May 31, 2010)

americanh3art said:


> I have REVO in my car for 4 years from stage 2 to 2+ to K04. Had issues that others K04 users have as detail here (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5311601-For-the-REVO-STG-III-K04-guys............) and *the REVO customer support was TERRIBLE*
> 
> 3 of my friends have the same engine (2.0t FSI) with APR - I've done runs with them and there is no clear winner, we always end up tie or very close to it
> 
> ...


 I think you're very biased because you had some issues and your arrogance and demand for answers now left you feeling less than satisfied. You can't deny that if you are the type of person that wants to go outside the cookie cutter box of tunes Revo is the only way to go. ALL the tunes are very close in power these days. 

I have had friends that have had with apr then changed to uni and finally ended up with revo. As far as customer service goes go on any forum people are begging for support from certain tuning companies more so than revo. Personally I have NEVER needed to call for customer support. Why? Because I have never had any issues at all. I ran stage 2 for four yeas and the only thing I was missing was fuel cuts. ZERO fuel cuts. That can't be said for some other companies. 

Back to the op. If you don't really need or desire to change settings or files get whatever company is closer to you. Giac has the flash loader for different files, Apr changes files on the CC stalk and Revo uses the sps which allows you to taylor you file to you needs or environments. 

Good luck:thumbup:


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## alerxovawo (Nov 26, 2011)

I'm extremely pleased with my Unitronic tune. Going from stock to stage 1 was a night and day difference. About to get flashed to the HPFP file so hopefully thats impressive as well!


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## americanh3art (Nov 27, 2012)

U.G. MKV said:


> I think you're very biased because you had some issues and your arrogance and demand for answers now left you feeling less than satisfied. You can't deny that if you are the type of person that wants to go outside the cookie cutter box of tunes Revo is the only way to go. ALL the tunes are very close in power these days.
> 
> I have had friends that have had with apr then changed to uni and finally ended up with revo. As far as customer service goes go on any forum people are begging for support from certain tuning companies more so than revo. Personally I have NEVER needed to call for customer support. Why? Because I have never had any issues at all. I ran stage 2 for four yeas and the only thing I was missing was fuel cuts. ZERO fuel cuts. That can't be said for some other companies.
> 
> ...


 I didnt have any issues up to stage 2+ and hence that's why you didn't run into any issues. If you search around the forum, you will see that this trend of bad customer service from REVO. Here's one: 



vdubkilla609 said:


> In selling a revo sps switch I am asking $180 shipped, it is brand new only used a few time when going to the dealer. I am only getting rid of it because I went to uni because of revos horrible customer service


 Source: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5934537-Revo-sps 

And just because you NEVER had to call REVO customer service doesn't make my opinion of them having bad customer service not true. Especially when I have first hand experience from REVO and also a rival company and they treat me completely different.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

americanh3art said:


> I didnt have any issues up to stage 2+ and hence that's why you didn't run into any issues. If you search around the forum, you will see that this trend of bad customer service from REVO. Here's one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

That guy called me 3 times in a row from the same number pretending to be 3 different people in an attempt to try and catch me lying to him.

What was his problem? That we didn't have software for a hardware kit he bought from someone else. His dealer then broke their programming cable once we did create the software and had to send it back to us for repair. Not a single issue he had actually was anything to do with us. 


YOU still have yet to actually provide me or your local Revo dealer with your ECU ID so we can see if the file you want is even available.


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## jaysvwgti (Nov 5, 2007)

I like my thread gets jacked for a bitchin session, im just looking for opinions. As for the issues ppl have had are. Random. No company puts out a flawless product. But thanks for the opinions.. Cheers
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

The B'in session is all your fault, LOL. You opened this can of worms...again. LOL 

GIAC - APR - UNITRONIC are plug and play. Every one is going to say get theirs or they'll suggest theirs or the one they now have. 

REVO is adjustable and may help you fine tune for the conditions where you live. 

Some believe the ecu has the capability to make those adjustments and some do not. And some just live with a plug and play and whatever it gives them. Honestly, if you live at a normal elevation a p-n-p tune should be fine. Another issue is, "do you want to mess with adjustments or not"? Some do not want to have to do this and some really do want/need to make adjustments. There are just too many variables from one mkv to another to say one is better than another. 

I've run better 1/4 mile et's with giac's pump perf. remap and an intake than others with uni and apr stage 2's and apr stage 2+. Never had a chance to match up to a revo...so...But you will get all variables of results. Over the past almost seven years we have been doing this topic to death and you will simply have to believe one and not the others. 

It is best to have whichever done that is local to you and are decent people.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

had APR stage 2 on my B6, switched to UNI stage 2 and i liked UNI stage 2 much more :thumbup:


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## beradycavs (Sep 22, 2010)

I can't get any info on pre tune requirements from revo or the local dealer who also has apr available I tried emailing apr and revo and any get much of anything back so I come on here to get some info but ereybody has nothin good to say sept mines faster than yours or those others suck ber ber ber:banghead:


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

Stage 1: nothing needed. 
Stage 2: upgraded downpipe is needed
Stage 2+ (hpfp) : 3in dp and upgraded hpfp

All of the tuners are the same with what is required 

Sent from my Galaxy SIII


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## beradycavs (Sep 22, 2010)

Can anybody back this up iv seen nothin about fpr for some some say you need an intercooler upgrade and the dp is pretty common must have upgrade but not everyone has the info available.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

Nothing is required for stage 1 from any tuner.


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## beradycavs (Sep 22, 2010)

I didn't think stage one need anything but a DV was advised. I can't raise any info from European concepts in greensburg pa. The closest flash shop to me.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

beradycavs said:


> Can anybody back this up iv seen nothin about fpr for some some say you need an intercooler upgrade and the dp is pretty common must have upgrade but not everyone has the info available.


 This is infonl that is readily available...... Plus i think i know what im talking about. 

Click the tabs. All tuners stages require the same thing. Only one that is different is UNi ko4 is stage 2+ and the hpfp file is stage 2 hpfp
http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tfsi_trans.html

Intercooler, catback, and intake are all recommended 

Sent from my Galaxy SIII


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## beradycavs (Sep 22, 2010)

I didn't say you didn't know, I just wanted a lil info about the revo tune I know the apr stuff is available. 


Sometimes this sites barely worth the hassle of dealing with the people.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

beradycavs said:


> I didn't say you didn't know, I just wanted a lil info about the revo tune I know the apr stuff is available.
> 
> 
> Sometimes this sites barely worth the hassle of dealing with the people.


 
Asking for somone else to back somthing up that is info easily found is a slap in the face when someone is trying to help. I could have beem one of the typical aholes on here and said "SEARCH!" bc both of your questions have been covered many times 

They are all the same stage wise. Im probably one of most knowledgeable B6 Passat guys here on this forum so if u have a question about the B6 myself, SickTRed08FSI and BsickPassat are prob the guys to ask

I know people that have runned revo, apr and giac they all like there tunes. 

If u look in the b6 passat forum here myself, trackstar, and sdbirdman all switched from APR to UNi and all of us are happier with uni. SickTRed08FSI switched from Revo to UNI and is happer with uni.

Sent from my Galaxy SIII


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## beradycavs (Sep 22, 2010)

Thank you.


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## Bo Toichi (Jan 15, 2013)

REVO stage 2 with a intake & downpipe and everything else working in good order will net anywhere from 240-257 whp and 280-300 ft. lbs. tq. on a dynojet. I have seen multiple cars do this. 
Also REVO stage 2 with downpipe only can beat a a APR stage 2+ with FP/IC/DP & full exhaust,I have seen it happen.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

Bo Toichi said:


> REVO stage 2 with a intake & downpipe and everything else working in good order will net anywhere from 240-257 whp and 280-300 ft. lbs. tq. on a dynojet. I have seen multiple cars do this.
> Also REVO stage 2 with downpipe only can beat a a APR stage 2+ with FP/IC/DP & full exhaust,I have seen it happen.


 Dyno sheets? 

Sent from my Galaxy SIII


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

REVO, UNI, APR, GIAC - stage1 = Nothing required 

REVO, UNI, APR, GIAC - stage 2 = DP and Intake. No reflash needed with giac 

REVO, UNI, APR, GIAC - stage 2+ = stage 2 hardware, a hpfp upgrade, and remap. FMIC is optional


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

ROH ECHT said:


> REVO, UNI, APR, GIAC - stage1 = Nothing required
> 
> REVO, UNI, APR, GIAC - stage 2 = DP and Intake. No reflash needed with giac
> 
> REVO, UNI, APR, GIAC - stage 2+ = stage 2 hardware, a hpfp upgrade, and remap. FMIC is optional


 Unitronic "stage 2+" is there ko4 file. The HPFP file is called "stage 2 HPFP"

Just to be clear :beer:

Sent from my Galaxy SIII


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## U.G. MKV (May 31, 2010)

Bo Toichi said:


> REVO stage 2 with a intake & downpipe and everything else working in good order will net anywhere from 240-257 whp and 280-300 ft. lbs. tq. on a dynojet. I have seen multiple cars do this.
> Also REVO stage 2 with downpipe only can beat a a APR stage 2+ with FP/IC/DP & full exhaust,I have seen it happen.


 My car has done all of the above while on revo2


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## Bo Toichi (Jan 15, 2013)

Here is a old dyno from when they first released the stage 2 for Mk5. This is on a Techtonics 2.5 " downpipe,since NOBODY was even making a 3" one yet! 








I have seen numerous cars make 240-250+whp on REVO. There is even a A3,that has all the bolt ons,and with a tweeked wastegate,and running 100 octane made 272whp and 327tq. on stock K03,NO fuel cuts!


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

That must be an extremely old dyno sheet. 

Being a dynojet tho they do show higher HP numbers. Most people need the HPFP upgrade to see close to 240 whp. 

Sent from my Galaxy SIII


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## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

Never see anyone mentioning United Motorsport...any feedback on their tune? 
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express


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## Bo Toichi (Jan 15, 2013)

Yes,that dyno sheet is 6-7 years old. REVO was making great power from the get go. 
I have used this dyno plenty of times,and a turbo'd 97 GTI VR6 dynoed exactly 403whp on this and ran a trap speed of 125 mph at the track,the GTI was FULL WEIGHT,so 400 whp and 125 traps is pretty realistic to me.


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## put it down (Feb 12, 2011)

I a fan of apr. That what im using and i love it


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## U.G. MKV (May 31, 2010)

Bill6211789 said:


> Dyno sheets?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy SIII


 Here ya go. 
 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

Yes, to be completely accurate, UNI and GIAC call their remaps, what should be stage 2+, stage 2 hpfp and HO Rail Pump respectively. 

These threads should be shut down like this one was; 

http://myfastgti.com/volkswagen/threads/19879-ECU-Stages-and-brands-Which-is-better... 

as they never answer the question of which one is best and always start a forum war. You can get either of them you choose, and still pull on another you weren't supposed to with a, claimed to be better than yours, remap. I beat every stage 2 and stage 2+(hpfp upgraded) mkv's with uni and apr with my stage 1 GIAC with a drop in filter and reso-delete running 14.0 to 14.1 sec. at 100mph all day. But, knowing some out there would easily better that. You will gain similar power with each tune. It's everything else that makes the difference; i.e. - driving, tires, how well maintained, etc. You just need to pick one from your local choices and believe in it.


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## 18bora. (Aug 18, 2007)

jaysvwgti said:


> As the title states. Looking to flash, just cant figure out which to choose. Went and had the 5 hr revo trial for stage 1, not too impressed, lmk what you guys and gals think, thanks in advance


 Sorry, I can't tell you which flash to chose, but I can tell you that APR just won a podium finish @ Rolex Daytona 24 Hours.


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## lausch (Mar 29, 2002)

18bora. said:


> Sorry, I can't tell you which flash to chose, but I can tell you that APR just won a podium finish @ Rolex Daytona 24 Hours.


 This.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

Normally I don't give a crap about peoples racing programs and the inaccuracies that end up on the forums in regards to what that means for street products.

But the R8 they run is a turn key race car you by from Audi, put your stickers on and find a driver to pay for the weekend. 

They didn't tune that car so it has NOTHING to do with this or any single product they sell. 

Even their 2.0 race cars have nothing to do with street cars, but the R8s are even worse examples.


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## Tmsracing37 (Aug 25, 2008)

http://www.audi.com/com/brand/en/au...acing/Audi_R8_LMS_ultra/audi_r8_grand_am.html


Its nothing new, alot manufactuers have been providing programs like this for many years. I will say the the team still has to invest countless hours of work/research into cars to yeild good results, esp. if other teams you're racing against has the same spec car. Also they probably provide Audi with alot feedback about the car to improve the chassis, engine, drivetrain, and the program itself. So Kudos to the race team that works on the APR car.


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## n3on3m0 (Jun 13, 2012)

Boostin20v said:


> Never see anyone mentioning United Motorsport...any feedback on their tune?
> Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express



Exactly. I was having a discussion with my local APR dealer and told him we don't think APR is exactly "aggressive" enough and that because of this, I was thinking about going w/ Uni instead. He didn't exactly deny what I was saying but merely added that if it's "aggressive" I want, he would put up "United Motorsports" up against Uni ANY DAY.

I personally haven't heard of them until now but I guess it's a division of APR?? It's definitely got me thinking but I'm most likely going to go with Uni anyways. 

We need to know more about United.

And to the dude who supplied the APR R8 photos as proof that APR is top-notch:
Nobody's denying that IF APR tuned that race car (which someone else was saying they didn't even touch that car...just stickers)....long story short, they know what they are doing when it comes to racing. However, since they are such a large company....when it comes to the general public....they are more interested in the marketing and flashing as many vehicles as possible with their product rather than tweaking the most out of their program. (hense the non-aggressive stuff). If you get as many people in and out with a more "reliable" program rather than a more "powerful" program, your track record is going to be mighty clean. They just don't want to take the chance on general consumers as they would with racers. No?


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't think that apr is anymore "safe" or "conservative". I think that's just a nice way of saying that it doesn't make as much power. 

If we know that these cars can take x amount of power, then what is the point of having a conservative stage 1 file if it isn't even near the power threshold? 

It doesn't take sense to me.


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## n3on3m0 (Jun 13, 2012)

Yep, i agree. They seem all cosmetic.


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## n3on3m0 (Jun 13, 2012)

Actually, probably the reason no one really talks about "United' is because they don't even offer it for the b6 passat.

Just looked at all the applications on the site and Passat is not one of them.

Unitronic it is Saturday @ 10 AM. Stage II son.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

n3on3m0 said:


> Actually, probably the reason no one really talks about "United' is because they don't even offer it for the b6 passat.
> .


yes they do CALL and talk to Jeff they did whipped up a tune for my buddys 3.6L B6 last week and it performs flawless . He started from scratch took him about and hour . Bob.G


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## n3on3m0 (Jun 13, 2012)

ugh every other tuning website has the passat listed. why not add the passat on united if the guys freakin support them.

or say, "your vehicle might not be listed but we may still support it. please call and confirm"

anyways thanks for clearing that up.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

You'll like the tune.


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## JohnnyDrama (Feb 15, 2012)

n3on3m0 said:


> Unitronic it is Saturday @ 10 AM. Stage II son.


 great choice! I know you'll enjoy it! :thumbup:


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## 18bora. (Aug 18, 2007)

n3on3m0 said:


> However, since they are such a large company....when it comes to the general public....*they are more interested in the marketing and flashing as many vehicles as possible with their product rather than the most out of their program.* (hense the non-aggressive stuff). If you get as many people in and out with a more "reliable" program rather than a more "powerful" program, your track record is going to be mighty clean. They just don't want to take the chance on general consumers as they would with racers. No?


 Unless you're one of the big ballers with a huge turbo and a mod list to the moon, neither *Uni* nor *Revo* is interested in "tweaking" your $500~ flash. However, APR pushes their *2.0T* race cars to the limit and applies what they learn to the "general consumers" flash. 

Unless I lived on a "race track", when It comes to acouple of HP difference, I would take a more "reliable" program over a more "powerful" program. In the end it's your choice, pick whatever makes you feel better.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

I know people who have had files "tweaked" by uni and overall like that they don't have a chip on their shoulder in the forums like some other company spokesman have shown they have.


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## 18bora. (Aug 18, 2007)

Tutti57 said:


> I know people who have had files "tweaked" by uni and overall like that they don't have a chip on their shoulder in the forums like some other company spokesman have shown they have.


 I know a *lot* of people who never had the need for their APR files to be "tweaked"


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

One example was to accommodate a unique hardware configuration. Again, customer service. 

From the looks of a lot of the threads I've seen on here lately, people have needed help with their software and have been given the runaround about it. Particularly k04 files. 

Toodloo.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

18bora. said:


> . However, APR pushes their *2.0T* race cars to the limit and applies what they learn to the "general consumers" flash.


 
Race cars restricted to stock boost levels running race fuel on engines rebuilt after every weekend.

This applies to street cars how?


There are things to learn from racing, less than 1% applies to the street in a way anyone reading this thread will benefit from. 

You race for marketing, same reason we are running in 3 classes this year. We aren't going to lie and claim that what we do for restricted class race cars or turn key purchased race cars ends up in a customers car. 




> Unless I lived on a "race track", when It comes to acouple of HP difference, I would take a more "reliable" program over a more "powerful" program. In the end it's your choice, pick whatever makes you feel better.


 Then you say this? The guy who bitches and moans that people don't track their cars enough? Just after saying that APR is better because they have race cars but then you don't live on a race track so it doesn't matter?

You do realize your entire post was a contradiction don't you Sam?


Our US facility is ON a race track, and our new UK facility is going to be located on an old air strip used as a track, that we currently have regular access to. We test our STREET cars with STREET products on the race track, that is what the customer gets and that is what matters, tunes from a restricted race car class don't trickle down to the street cars. This thread is about flashes, those race cars don't have street flashes.


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## n3on3m0 (Jun 13, 2012)

^well said mr. revo man. not sure how u can counter that!


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## Chr[email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

Tutti57 said:


> One example was to accommodate a unique hardware configuration. Again, customer service.


 A custom tune is a service one offers to customers, you can have bad customer service while doing this or good. A company that chooses not to offer custom tunes does not automatically have bad customer service, it simply means they do not offer that particular service or product. 

We get emails all the time people asking us to tune their Hondas and Subarus, things like that. We don't have poor customer service because we chose not to offer products to those markets. 

Ford doesn't have bad customer service because they won't build you a Camaro. But a Chevy dealer who won't return your phone calls when you contact them about a Camaro has bad customer service.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

but here is a race car anyway..










Mind you that is in the VW booth at the DC Auto show...


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> This applies to street cars how?


 I generally try to avoid responding to trash talk, but I am compelled to in this case. 

http://www.facebook.com/achtuning/posts/423764634373085 

Our computer controlled accusump product, which will be available soon from all APR dealers for all TSI cars came DIRECTLY from our racing program. 

We developed the kit and the hardware/software to go with it over on the motorsports side. Once they were satisfied, we wrote an instruction manual and ordered a bunch for retail sale. 

That's a perfect example of motorsports experience crossing over to production. 

There are many others, but that's an easy and current one.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> but here is a race car anyway.
> Mind you that is in the VW booth at the DC Auto show...


 Here is a racecar anyway. 
Mind you, ours is at the podium after the 24 hours of Daytona.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Race cars restricted to stock boost levels running race fuel on engines rebuilt after every weekend.
> 
> This applies to street cars how?


 Sounds like you're implying the engines are not being stressed, but they are rebuilt after each race? 

Strange. 

Anyways, boost is limited depending on how much they will allow us to run. It's not limited to stock levels, especially once you're near redline, where the engine stays for most of the race. We're running well beyond what the stock software does at that point. We just can't run loads of boost down low. 

This also means we must find ways to make loads of power without loads of boost. We're really good at that. 

Also, since this is the FSI forum, Our FSI powered race car CUSTOMERS (not APR, but people who pay for APR products on their race cars, not limited as much as we are) have won races all across the globe. This includes stage 3 supercopas in 24 hour races and most recently the 12 hours of bathurst. 



> There are things to learn from racing, less than 1% applies to the street in a way anyone reading this thread will benefit from.


 Not true one bit. We have many products in development now that are coming from our race program. This includes and has included software and the updates we've done over the years. Hardware and software comes from our race program. 



> You race for marketing, same reason we are running in 3 classes this year. We aren't going to lie and claim that what we do for restricted class race cars or turn key purchased race cars ends up in a customers car.


 *You*, Stasis, Revo, Eurojet, Whatever, are not running in 3 classes this year and you're not racing anywhere. 

Putting a sticker on another teams car in SCCA club racing is not even close to running a motorsport team in a professional race series.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

APR employees with reading problems.

This thread is about tunes not oil pumps.

None of you also have any clue to the level of our involvement with the vehicles we are running this year, it is well beyond stickers. 

But thanks for showing everyone here that you are incapable of having civil conversations, helps us sell product everytime. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> APR employees with reading problems.
> 
> This thread is about tunes not oil pumps.


 We are well aware, and we've discussed software: 



[email protected] said:


> We have many products in development now that are coming from our race program. This includes and has included software and the updates we've done over the years. Hardware and software comes from our race program.


 


[email protected] said:


> None of you also have any clue to the level of our involvement with the vehicles we are running this year, it is well beyond stickers.


 We've been in this game for a long time now. We know exactly what's involved. 



> But thanks for showing everyone here that you are incapable of having civil conversations, helps us sell product everytime. :thumbup:


 I don't see the conversation not being civil. Disagreeing with others is a part of normal human interaction.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

"Unitronic it is Saturday @ 10 AM. Stage II son."

Looks like he's all set for now. Next!


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

Tutti57 said:


> "Unitronic it is Saturday @ 10 AM. Stage II son."
> 
> Looks like he's all set for now. Next!


 Unitronic ftw! :beer::beer:

Sent from my Galaxy SIII


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## born2live (Feb 3, 2012)

Awesome choice OP, you are going to love the Unitronic Software :wave:


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## Q-NIC (Oct 17, 2012)

Its simple...GO APR!! :thumbup:


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

I read this thread and laughed. Customer service is key IMO, which is why I switched. Why do these dealers girl fight on a thread like this? Lulz.....


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Tutti57 said:


> I don't think that apr is anymore "safe" or "conservative". I think that's just a nice way of saying that it doesn't make as much power.
> 
> If we know that these cars can take x amount of power, then what is the point of having a .


 
That's because what you think is here nor there. Logs clearly show Uni and GIAC run more aggressive duty cycles and boost request particularly at high rpm than APR. You don't have to think the data is in black and white (as are the inflated hp advantages but thats another topic).


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

So uni and Giac are not safe? I've yet to hear of a stage one or two from any tuner being responsible for engine damage. 

The point is that the tunes are safe and make more power based on before and after dynos after people switch. 

Maybe this isn't the best analogy but its like filling a 20 oz glass of beer only to 10 oz instead of 16 oz because you're afraid it will spill. Just put 16 in, there's still room in there.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> We are well aware, and we've discussed software:


 So the software you run in the race cars is what you are selling?







> We've been in this game for a long time now. We know exactly what's involved.


 You do not have any information on our involvement with the cars we are working with this year. We have actually been in the race game longer and for more years total then you have. Current staff members have been involved in racing with Porsche Motorsports, Grand AM and SCCA. 

Its good to see you are scared though.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Current staff members have been involved in racing with Porsche Motorsports, Grand AM and SCCA.
> 
> Its good to see you are scared though.


 Lol, citing Stasis and Robin don't count. Then again, Stasis is practically all gone since REVO runs the show, so who knows. :laugh:


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

crew219 said:


> Lol, citing Stasis and Robin don't count. Then again, Stasis is practically all gone since REVO runs the show, so who knows. :laugh:


 
We are one company, so yes STaSIS racing history is valid to discuss. If people can bring up turn key not tuned by APR R8 race cars in a thread about tuning for a 2.0t we can discuss our company wide history of racing.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> We are one company, so yes STaSIS racing history is valid to discuss. If people can bring up turn key not tuned by APR R8 race cars in a thread about tuning for a 2.0t we can discuss our company wide history of racing.


 Chris, 

I'm not sure I understand the attitude, but we can have these discussions without being bitter. If you would like to discuss the differences between our race program, and an yours, I'll gladly do that. 

I would like to start off by saying the R8 program has been FAR from a turn key solution. APR was the only team to run a full season with the R8 last year and we worked tightly with Audi on the direction of the car to make it competitive given the rules packages and alterations from the LMS package which were stacked greatly opposite of our and Audi's favor. Only APR and Audi know the extent of our relationship and how closely we've worked together. 

Now, my focus in this discussion was NOT about the R8 program but was rather about our 2.0T racing efforts, which directly apply to this conversation. There are many things we learn from racing, and even recently engineering and motorsport were working hand and hand on new software tweaks which have their place in on the track and also have their place in our software across multiple engines and multiple engine managements. There's quite a lot to learn about the dynamics of the engine and vehicle as a whole which can never be seen on a dyno. Acceleration relies heavily on the application of torque which in many cases is limited by the ECU for one reason or another, or NEEDs to be limited or altered by the calibrator. This is an area in which we shine and an area where we can bring our expertise in motorsport to our street calibrations. 

I don't believe I need to rehash component safety as I covered this before. This is yet another aspect of racing which alters our understanding of OEM component stress tolerances and can only be found through real world accelerated life testing. 

APR competes in Grand-AM full time, and on an occasion we'll run in SCCA World Challenge for a race or two just for fun. Grand-AM is vastly different than club racing efforts in the SCCA. It requires a fully staffed team, and inclues races that range from 24hours, to 6 hours, all the way down to 2.5 hours. In contrast, SCCA races are under an hour, contain a single driver (no driver change) and no pit stops. Staffing requirements for a Grand-Am event vs the SCCA races are quite comical. One is simply a professional series, while the other is a high level club racing series with far less rules, far less regulation, and far lower budgest. 

Stasis competed in SCCA years back, but the did not compete with an engine relevant to this platform. They did use a vehicle that started with a 2.0 TFSI but the engine was removed in favor for the older 1.8T engine architecture. 

Revo, or SRG, simply supports teams in SCCA, but the main teams (Don Istook and Tristan Herbert) are not running 2.0T FSI engines which is what this topic is about. The level of support you are providing to each team is not something to be laughed at. It's a great gig for you, and we support several other 2.0T (EA113 & EA888) teams across the globe in many series, but it does not compare to our racing efforts in any way shape or form. Simply put, it's on a much simpler level as you're only providing support while each motorsport team is responsible for all of the other vehicle logistics, staffing, driving, etc. 

I hope that clears things up. 

I wish you luck this season. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I would like to start off by saying the R8 program has been FAR from a turn key solution.


 What does the R8 have to do with the questions being asked in this thread?

It is is as simple as that. Instead of simply answering a customers questions you prefer to come in and confuse them with stories of winning a race with a car that has nothing to do with this thread.

Congrats on the wins with it, the r8 doesn't have a 2.0t nor does it have anything to do with this thread.

Your racing program as a whole has nothing to do with this thread.


There is no attitude, I just don't lie to my customers, nor do I think they should have to deal with others lying to them just to get a sale.


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## jaysvwgti (Nov 5, 2007)

Damn guys, i just want an all around everyday flash, it's not for a race car, i just want a peppy grocery getter.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jaysvwgti said:


> Damn guys, i just want an all around everyday flash, it's not for a race car, i just want a peppy grocery getter.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


 Sorry to get off topic, but we have what you want and we have free trial software and a 30 day money back guarantee. 

Our software is upgradeable to stage 2 and 2+ for free. So if you add our high pressure fuel pump and downpipe you can get even more power. We have hardware and software all by APR all in house so you don't need to mix and match components. Basically, if you need it, we have it.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Back to the topic at hand. 

When somebody wants to move beyond a simple re-flash and puts a downpipe/turboback on their car with a high flow cat what kind of thought is put into allowing the end user to pass emissions inspections? 

Are there testpipe and catted versions of everyone's stage 2/2+?


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

GTI2Slow said:


> Back to the topic at hand.
> 
> When somebody wants to move beyond a simple re-flash and puts a downpipe/turboback on their car with a high flow cat what kind of thought is put into allowing the end user to pass emissions inspections?
> 
> Are there testpipe and catted versions of everyone's stage 2/2+?


 UNI, Giac, and APR all offers non test pipe files. Idk if revo does

UNI, APR and Revo offer test pipe files as well. Giac does not offer a test pipe file 

Sent from my Galaxy SIII


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## jaysvwgti (Nov 5, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry to get off topic, but we have what you want and we have free trial software and a 30 day money back guarantee.
> 
> Our software is upgradeable to stage 2 and 2+ for free. So if you add our high pressure fuel pump and downpipe you can get even more power. We have hardware and software all by APR all in house so you don't need to mix and match components. Basically, if you need it, we have it.


 Ok so where can i go to get a trial flash, how long is the trial, does it maximize the flash? 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jaysvwgti said:


> Ok so where can i go to get a trial flash, how long is the trial, does it maximize the flash?
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


 Any apr dealer: www.goapr.com/dealer 

The file is the production software. It last for 6 hours of driving time, which may be a week for some people. After that time it reverts to stock. If you call and want the software we can enable it over the phone with a code we give you. You just need to pay for the code.


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