# Carputer Question



## rawbdee (Sep 24, 2008)

I'm seriously intrested in building a carputer so I can run Vagcom constantly and my music and my movies from my computer but what kind of outputs would I need on the computer to connect to the factory stereo? 
I appreciate the help http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
and happy thanksgiving!


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: Carputer Question (rawbdee)*

onboard sound output would be fine, or upgrade to a nice sound card
1/8" stereo jack to RCA adapter cables to an amplifier


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## rawbdee (Sep 24, 2008)

Thanks for the quick response!
Have you ever done a setup like this? Anything I should be aware of ?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: (rawbdee)*

I use a carputer instead of a head unit, and I do all of my audio processing on it. Just remember to properly size your powersuply, and expect a lot of unexpected costs. First time around, my carputer ended up costing $1400 for all the parts/accessories. Second time around, it was about $500, but I already had bought the GPS, bluetooth, CD-rom drive, screen, software, etc. 
http://www.mp3car.com is the definitive forum dedicated completely to carpcs.


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## rawbdee (Sep 24, 2008)

*Re: (Pat @ Pitt Soundworks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pat @ Pitt Soundworks* »_I use a carputer instead of a head unit, and I do all of my audio processing on it. Just remember to properly size your powersuply, and expect a lot of unexpected costs. First time around, my carputer ended up costing $1400 for all the parts/accessories. Second time around, it was about $500, but I already had bought the GPS, bluetooth, CD-rom drive, screen, software, etc. 
http://www.mp3car.com is the definitive forum dedicated completely to carpcs.

I appreciate the help I've priced everything out and I'm pretty sure I'm ready to go.
It's going to be about $1100 before shipping. 
My friend drew this up, what do yout think? 








Is there a need to split rca twice?


_Modified by rawbdee at 11:26 PM 11-30-2008_


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*FV-QR*

It looks like he is trying to take a left and right channel from your PC and split it to the left and right, front and rear inputs on the amp. If you plan to do this without the use of a headunit you'll need a some sort of signal processor or EQ. Users typically dont have the greatest sound quality going right from a PC to an AMP.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (judoGTI)*

Judo couldn't be more wrong.
That would, however if you're going to split the signal like that, you should invest in a line driver. You would be better off running the speaker output on the pc into the front channel input on the amp, then looping a RCA from the "RCA OUT" on the amp back in to the rear channels. Remember, the speaker jack on the amp is actually TWO channels, so you wouldn't need multiple splitters. At most, one.
What happens with you use a y-splitter like that is it cuts the current down. Computer sound cards don't have the highest powered output, so cutting that down even more would require you to crank up the gain on the amp even higher (possibly max out) which would increase unwanted noise.
Also, don't use a power converter. They create a dirty signal that will cause issues with the computer. Instead use one of these powersupplies. They run off of 12v just like your amplifier.
http://store.mp3car.com/Automo...1.htm

_Modified by Pat @ Pitt Soundworks at 12:58 PM 12-1-2008_


_Modified by Pat @ Pitt Soundworks at 12:59 PM 12-1-2008_


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*FV-QR*

I dont know how Im wrong? Ive read countless threads on mp3car.com about the strong recommendation you get an EQ if you are going to go from your computer straight to an amp. Especially if you have an amp that doesn't take high level inputs or you dont get a sound card that offers low-level out. Especially splitting 2 signals to 4 channels and you plan on controlling the volume from the PC
Ive built a couple carputers in my day and have been on mp3car for 4+ years. Im not just spewing crap.


_Modified by judoGTI at 9:46 PM 12-1-2008_


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (judoGTI)*

Do you know what an EQ does? The only POSSIBLE reason for getting an eq if you're not using the computer as an audio processor is using it as a line driver. 
Do you know what the difference between a "high level" signal and a "low level" signal is? A hit: it's just the plugs used and the voltage along the wires. A computer sound card only puts out 1-2wrms. After you do any math you want, (do you know what your amps rated input impedance is? or the sound cards related OUTPUT impedance?) it's going to be less than the amps rated voltage input for gain control.
Running something like this will be more than adequate:
http://www.radioshack.com/prod...59117
Again, only accessory that might be "needed" is a line driver, and that can be avoided by looping the amps outputs back into it's rear inputs.


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## MNShortBus (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: Carputer Question (rawbdee)*

This can be pretty easy. But, everything revolves around if you have the stock monsoon system. Working with that amp is a PITA.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: Carputer Question (vdubber#3555)*

Working with the stock amp should be as simple as hooking the speaker output leads into the front channel inputs on the amp. 
I was under the impression we were going for an aftermarket amp...


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Pat @ Pitt Soundworks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pat @ Pitt Soundworks* »_Do you know what an EQ does? The only POSSIBLE reason for getting an eq if you're not using the computer as an audio processor is using it as a line driver. 
Do you know what the difference between a "high level" signal and a "low level" signal is? A hit: it's just the plugs used and the voltage along the wires. A computer sound card only puts out 1-2wrms. After you do any math you want, (do you know what your amps rated input impedance is? or the sound cards related OUTPUT impedance?) it's going to be less than the amps rated voltage input for gain control.
Running something like this will be more than adequate:
http://www.radioshack.com/prod...59117
Again, only accessory that might be "needed" is a line driver, and that can be avoided by looping the amps outputs back into it's rear inputs.

Im not saying what you are recommending won't work, but Im recommending a path to getting quality sound from your car PC. Using the EQ, will allow the carPC to send the cleanest unmodified signal to the EQ. Which would then be responsible for adding power (if going to high level input) and shaping the sound to your tastes. Or if you are going to a low level input (where there should be no power essentially just your signal/sound) Then get a sound card that can do that intentionally rather than adding a multitude of RCA male and female connections to dirty that signal up. There will be a large sound quality difference doing my way vs just running a multiple split line coming out of the headphone jack of a carPC. Especially if he is going to use a power converter like his image states. You'll have enough engine noise just with the converter that if you try to use any signal processing from your PC you'll get garbage by the time it gets to your speakers. 
10 ways to skin a cat but only one of them tastes good.


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## MNShortBus (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: Carputer Question (Pat @ Pitt Soundworks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pat @ Pitt Soundworks* »_Working with the stock amp should be as simple as hooking the speaker output leads into the front channel inputs on the amp. 
I was under the impression we were going for an aftermarket amp...









Not quite that easy. I wish it was... The monsoon amp doesnt have a remote turn on wire like most amps. It uses a 5v signal from the head unit, sent through one of the speaker wires to let it know when to turn on.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Carputer Question (vdubber#3555)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubber#3555* »_
Not quite that easy. I wish it was... The monsoon amp doesnt have a remote turn on wire like most amps. It uses a 5v signal from the head unit, sent through one of the speaker wires to let it know when to turn on.

I still use the Monsoon amp, but I have my sound going from my carPC to a pioneer headunit -> monsoon. For me it was the easiest way at the time, and it was fun relocating the faceplate too.


_Modified by judoGTI at 9:07 PM 12-2-2008_


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## MNShortBus (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: Carputer Question (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
I still use the Monsoon amp, but I have my sound going from my carPC to a pioneer headunit -> monsoon. For me it was the easiest way at the time, and it was fun relocating the faceplate too.

_Modified by judoGTI at 9:07 PM 12-2-2008_

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Any pics of the setup?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: Carputer Question (vdubber#3555)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubber#3555* »_
Not quite that easy. I wish it was... The monsoon amp doesnt have a remote turn on wire like most amps. It uses a 5v signal from the head unit, sent through one of the speaker wires to let it know when to turn on.

Right, this is what's needed:
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/ro....html

_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
Im not saying what you are recommending won't work, but Im recommending a path to getting quality sound from your car PC. Using the EQ, will allow the carPC to send the cleanest unmodified signal to the EQ. Which would then be responsible for adding power (if going to high level input) and shaping the sound to your tastes. Or if you are going to a low level input (where there should be no power essentially just your signal/sound) Then get a sound card that can do that intentionally rather than adding a multitude of RCA male and female connections to dirty that signal up. There will be a large sound quality difference doing my way vs just running a multiple split line coming out of the headphone jack of a carPC. Especially if he is going to use a power converter like his image states. You'll have enough engine noise just with the converter that if you try to use any signal processing from your PC you'll get garbage by the time it gets to your speakers. 
10 ways to skin a cat but only one of them tastes good.









I'm sorry, but if you're sending an "unmolested signal" out to the monsoon system, altering it with an EQ isn't going to help.
Plus what's the difference between an external EQ vs the winamp eq or a VST Eq? The line driving ability......


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## MNShortBus (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: Carputer Question (Pat @ Pitt Soundworks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pat @ Pitt Soundworks* »_
Right, this is what's needed:
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/ro....html

Awesome information. I really need to get going on this, but the monsoon system is just a pain.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: Carputer Question (vdubber#3555)*

f monsoon. It's a terrible system, anyway.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Carputer Question (Pat @ Pitt Soundworks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pat @ Pitt Soundworks* »_
Plus what's the difference between an external EQ vs the winamp eq or a VST Eq? The line driving ability......
<snip>
f monsoon. It's a terrible system, anyway.


It's using the best tool for the job. It's just like you saying the f monsoon its a terrible system... In reality, no it will work but its not the best. Modifying a signal with software (Winamp, WMP, etc...) then sending it a headphone jack on a motherboard, splitting each channel twice and then amplifying it will not get you the best sound quality. 


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubber#3555* »_
Any pics of the setup? 


Not at the moment, I'll snap some pics of it tonight or tomorrow and post them.


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## rawbdee (Sep 24, 2008)

This is why I ask questions haha, even you guys are fighting over the best way.
No monsoon amp, Aftermarket.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: Carputer Question (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
It's using the best tool for the job. It's just like you saying the f monsoon its a terrible system... In reality, no it will work but its not the best. Modifying a signal with software (Winamp, WMP, etc...) then sending it a headphone jack on a motherboard, splitting each channel twice and then amplifying it will not get you the best sound quality. 

If you understand each speaker jack carries two channels then you'll understand that the signal only has to be split once. You seem to miss this part as well (since we are talking about an aftermarket amp now): *looping the amp outputs back into the input does not require the signal to be spit and does not degrade the signal at all. All amps with rca outputs are a direct output of the front channel inputs, always*.
Plus I would rate any VST tool over any hardware tool ANY DAY. Less clutter, same exact end result, and it's free. There is no difference in the end result between the external eq and VST eq other than line driving abilities.
You're barking up the wrong tree if you're trying to argue VST tuning is a terrible system. Professional masters and sound editors use VSTs to make the music you listen too. 
I'm willing to bet you're still using kmixer with waveout, anyway.

Here's a simple step that will outperform any external processor, every time:
Download these:
1) put this in plugins folter 
2( download and install this
3) put this anywhere "safe"
4) in winamp, go to preferences
5) under plugin-ins, go to output
6) highlight "kernel streaming" and hit configure
7) make sure your sound card says output device, and hit ok.
8) under plug-ins, go to DSL/Effect
9) click VST host DSP and click configure
10) click the black text box on the small new window and hit load dll
11) navigate to where you stored the EQ.dll and hit open
Bam, you now have yourself a 31 band graphic EQ and simultaneously defeated kmixer while still retaining the ability to control volume through roadrunner.
A carputer is the BEST audio tool on the planet. It's stronger, faster, and more reliable than any third party processor. You're not limited in ANY WAY of what you can do. It's shear unadultered power. It's like driving the INA 500+awhp vr6 a4 around the track vs a standard 1.8t a4 quattro with a aftermarket intake and exhaust.
rawbdee, try the loopback method. If it's not loud enough, a simple line driver will do. You will get better results, guaranteed.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PAC-AUDIO-...%3A50



_Modified by Pat @ Pitt Soundworks at 1:31 PM 12-3-2008_


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## bcramer v2.0 (Mar 19, 2008)

*Re: Carputer Question (Pat @ Pitt Soundworks)*

I don't wanna get in the middle of this, but Pat is correct.
Jan Bennet is a six time USACi National Champion in SQ and *she* using *her* CarPC as *her* only source unit/EQ. 
edited for Pat.










_Modified by bcramer v2.0 at 1:24 PM 12-3-2008_


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: Carputer Question (bcramer v2.0)*

she


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Carputer Question (Pat @ Pitt Soundworks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pat @ Pitt Soundworks* »_

I'm willing to bet you're still using kmixer with waveout, anyway.


No Im using a E-MU 0404 Soundcard that has it's own signal processor. But regardless we are going to talk in circles all day because its a subjective question. Like I said there are 10 ways to skin a cat...
I'll try and find my camera and snap some pics for the other posters...


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Here are some pics. Please ignore the filth.
Here is the screen. I built a custom frame for it to fit and look flush out of t6 alum. Just spray painted black and it matches the interior well. The only bad thing with the metal is that Ive scratched it a few times and the paint came off so I had to touch it up and spray paint doesnt touch up well without taking it all out and just repainting it. Oh well though
















Here is the relocated faceplate. I took standard cat5 cable and soldered to the connectors and ran the cables. The HU is behind the seat (Im tall so no one can ever sit behind me. The pic is blurry sorry, but there isnt much to see. Just a strapped down HU with wires going to it.
















And here is the brains of it all, I placed it right about the Monsoon amp. This was a PITA for me because I used a miniITX (pico or nano ITX weren't out yet when I built it). I'd really like to build a whole new one off the picoITX mother boards and solid state drives that are out now. That would give you SO much more room to place with. It looks messy here because I pulled the cables out so you could see more, but it all fits nicely in there.



















_Modified by judoGTI at 9:19 PM 12-3-2008_


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## MNShortBus (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (judoGTI)*

Looks good! I really like the idea of putting the face plate up top like that. I just might have to do that too http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Just curious, what are the specs on the PC? And do you have any pics of how you did that face plate with cat5? 
Good work


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*FV-QR*

The motherboard is a via M10000 (really old, like I said if I were to build on today I would go picoITX in a second), I think its a regular 160BG harddrive 3.5" (again if I were to go picoITX, Id use a laptop HD or go solid state). The sound card is a E-MU 404, I like this car a lot because it has optical input and output, plus an assortment of regular RCAs that can be all used at the same time if need be. Worked great with my XMPCR with optical mod. Of course I dont subscribe to XM anymore so I should probably throw that thing on Ebay, but anyways.... Deluo GPS and iGuidance software, and VAG-COM, power supply Im using an older Opus 90W dc-dc unit and a 7" lilliput monitor.
All done on the cheap, but I love it. You'll never be able to go back to a normal radio/CD/Ipod player again once you do it. 
As for relocating the headunit, there really isnt much more to it. Take some cat5 cables, clip off the connectors if they are still on it. Each side should have 5 pairs of twisted wire that are uniquely color coded. Just match up the pins to the wires and solder. The only thing you have to be careful of is making the cables too long, some HUs dont put a lot of power to the connectors so you might lose enough signal that your faceplate doesnt work. I think mine are 15 feet and I have a Pioneer. People have had to go shorter with some Alpines but I think it just depends. 15" is plenty though.


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## MNShortBus (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: Carputer Question (rawbdee)*

Good info.







I've been reading a few threads at mp3car.com, and learned quite a bit. 
I'm doing the relocation thing for sure, I'm just concerned about voltage drop, and the actual face plate not getting enough power. I'm going to try my luck and go with Pioneer. Any certain Pioneer models that are know to not work? And how did you run the cat5 cable? Down the side by the door? I was thinking maybe over the headliner would be shorter...
Sorry for all the questions lol. I appreciate the help. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by vdubber#3555 at 8:51 PM 12-7-2008_


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*FV-QR*

I dont have any info on specific pioneer models, I just used the one I had in my car.








I ran mine up the pillar to the headliner.


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## MNShortBus (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: Carputer Question (rawbdee)*

What touch screen did you use? Liliput? Xenarc? 
I've seen something over on mp3car.com about on some of the newer screens, its a pain to wire up the power. Because they have some weird connection, not just power and ground. I'm assuming it a VGA connection for video too?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: Carputer Question (vdubber#3555)*

I use a lilliput, straight and simple power and ground, but I had to hard-wire the switch to turn on automatically whenever it sees power.
If I had the money, I'd buy the transflective....


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