# S3 Sportback press release



## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

The new Audi S3 Sportback
New 2.0 TFSI with 221 kW (300 hp) and 380 Nm (280.27 lb-ft) of torque, but just 6.9 liters per 100 km (34.09 US mpg)
From 0 to 100 km/h (62.14 mph) in 5.0 seconds
Five doors for even better functionality

Audi S3 Sportback

221 kW (300 hp). 380 Nm (280.27 lb-ft) of torque. From 0 to 100 km/h (62.14 mph) in 5.0 seconds. The new Audi S3 Sportback offers best-in-class performance. Its efficiency is also exemplary. The 2.0 TFSI averages just 6.9 liters per 100 km (34.09 US mpg).
The four-cylinder engine in the S3 Sportback has been overhauled. The only thing in common with its predecessor is a displacement of 1,984 cc. Its rated output of 221 kW (300 hp) is available at 5,500 rpm; maximum torque of 380 Nm (280.27 lb-ft) is constantly available from 1,800 to 5,500 rpm.

The high-performance four-cylinder engine responds immediately to the driver's wishes and boasts a sportily sonorous sound. When the Audi drive select system is in dynamic mode, the engine's power is also underscored acoustically. The 2.0 TFSI provides power and exemplary efficiency alike by relying on many new technologies, ranging from dual injection through the Audi valvelift system and an exhaust manifold integrated within the cylinder head to innovative thermal management.

When equipped with the optional six-speed S tronic, the S3 Sportback sprints from 0 to 100 km/h (62.14 mph) in only 5.0 seconds. The six-speed manual transmission needs just five-tenths of a second more. Top speed is electronically governed at 250 km/h (155.34 mph). Launch Control delivers the engine's power to the road with defined tire slip. The 2.0 TFSI consumes just 6.9 liters per 100 km (34.09 US mpg) on average when paired with the S tronic (7.0 liters [33.60 US mpg] with the manual transmission). This engine thus requires 1.5 liters per 100 km less compared to the previous S3 Sportback.

The lower gears of both transmissions are tightly spaced for sporty performance while the tall sixth gear reduces fuel consumption. The dual-clutch transmission can be controlled via optional shift paddles on the steering wheel and offers the automatic modes D and S in addition to manual mode.

Equipped with quattro permanent all-wheel drive and a redesigned multi-plate clutch, this new high-end vehicle in the model line can accelerate more quickly and safely when exiting a corner. It is dynamic and stable in all conditions, even rain or snow.
The front axle is 52 millimeters (2.05 in) farther forward compared to the previous model. The 2.0 TFSI is more than five kilograms (11.02 lb) lighter than the previous engine and is tilted backward by 12 degrees.

In addition to a sophisticated suspension and the S sport suspension, which lowers the body by 25 millimeters (0.98 in), the axle-load distribution (59% to 41%, front to rear) and new, progressive steering contribute significantly to sporty handling. The key to progressive steering is that steering movements determine the steering ratio. This results in stable and virtually neutral steering characteristics for outstanding precision during sporty driving and easier steering while parking.

The new Audi S3 Sportback features 7.5 J x 18 wheels. The low rolling resistance of the 225/40-series tires helps reduce fuel consumption. The calipers of the large brakes, which measure 340 millimeters (13.39 in) in diameter up front, are painted black and bear S logos. They can optionally be red. The electromechanical parking brake governs the rear axle. Electronic Stabilization Control (ESC) reflects latest-generation technology.

The new S3 Sportback comes standard with Audi drive select. This system handles characteristics of the electronic gas pedal, shift points of the optional S tronic and the steering ratio for progressive steering.

At the push of a button, the driver specifies whether these systems should operate in comfort, auto, dynamic or efficiency mode. An additional mode, individual, is available in models equipped with the MMI Radio or above. The optional Audi magnetic ride system, which situationally regulates the shock absorbers, is also controlled via Audi drive select.

Lightweight construction also contributes significantly to the very dynamic performance of the Audi S3 Sportback. This five-door car has a curb weight of 1,445 kilograms (3,185.68 lb) – 70 kilograms (154.32 lb) less than the previous model. Most of this reduction in weight is on account of the body.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Thanks for catching this. Dinner time on east coast and I had a commitment. I just added it to the site and will link this thread.


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## ArcticA3 (Aug 5, 2006)

Yet another cool Audi we don't get in the USA.


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

ArcticA3 said:


> Yet another cool Audi we don't get in the USA.


At the very least we will get the sedan.

Here is a link to the press release: https://www.audi-mediaservices.com/...3_sportback.standard.gid-oeffentlichkeit.html


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## Exousia (Feb 22, 2010)

Yeah, I can't see it coming to the US. Well, chip our 2.0T, buy the trim pieces, exhaust, wheels and call it an S3.

Still, with 34.09 US mpg and a decent price, I'd be all over it.


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## steaguejr (Aug 3, 2006)

VeeDubDriver said:


> At the very least we will get the sedan.
> 
> Here is a link to the press release: https://www.audi-mediaservices.com/...3_sportback.standard.gid-oeffentlichkeit.html


Sedan or sportback, I just want a S3 to come to the states!


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## Exousia (Feb 22, 2010)

"Upon request, Audi will equip the S3 Sportback with every driver assistance system 
available for the model series – including adaptive cruise control, which automatically 
brakes or accelerates the S3 Sportback as per the speed of the vehicle ahead. This new 
top-of-the-line model will be available starting in September 2013. The base price in 
Germany will be €39,800."

Somebody run that car price conversion- a raw one says 53k USD.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

An s4 starts at 47k in the states. The s3 will be much less than 53k.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Exousia said:


> Somebody run that car price conversion- a raw one says 53k USD.



Remember, prices are determined not by straight currency conversions but by what the local market will bear. Expect a US-spec S3 sedan to start at around $39,000 and move up from there.

Also, Euro prices that are listed are often inclusive of 18-20% VAT (depending on country).


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## Eurofan4eva (Aug 21, 2002)

This is the car I want! Damn you Audi!!!!:banghead:


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

I am hoping I can swing the RS3 when it comes over here, otherwise it may be the S3 to replace my Golf R.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

VeeDubDriver said:


> I am hoping I can swing the RS3 when it comes over here, otherwise it may be the S3 to replace my Golf R.


No word on an RS3 for the NA market, but the chances of it coming here are pretty slim when you consider the price point: $50k+ for an RS3 would be an extremely hard sell here.


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

Travis Grundke said:


> No word on an RS3 for the NA market, but the chances of it coming here are pretty slim when you consider the price point: $50k+ for an RS3 would be an extremely hard sell here.


I am remaining stubbornly optimistic!


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

Eurofan4eva said:


> This is the car I want! Damn you Audi!!!!:banghead:


No kidding!! I got my bonus from work, and I am sitting contently on it for a down payment on a S3. I WANT the Sportback, and this post does NOT make me happy. The sedan I will settle for...I WANT the Sportback.

Seeing as Canada never got the B5 S4 Avant and the US did, if Audi wants to makes this more like the B5, I can't see Audi Canada giving this to us even if US gets this...

Time to hit Google, and work on Plan B...

If S3 Sportback comes to North America, and only to US, how can I acquire...
Plan B, done and done...
http://carcostcanada.com/1/en/BuyingCarInUS.asp


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## greg964 (May 4, 2007)

I am holding out hope they bring S3 or RS3 sportback to the US.


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## scenturion (Apr 11, 2009)

Do you think that the engine in this car is based on the new dual injection 2.0L with a K04?


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

scenturion said:


> Do you think that the engine in this car is based on the new dual injection 2.0L with a K04?


Third gen EA888?


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

So is the S3 a maybe still for North America (Canada for me) or for sure not coming ? I assume no RS3 if even the S3 doesn't make it to NA

Read so many conflicting reports on the A3, I don't know what to believe anymore lol


Car looks amazing, If I had to special order an S3 and wait 6 months for one I would still buy it


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## Exousia (Feb 22, 2010)

I would say we are getting an A3/S3 sedan for sure, and at least the A3 sportback in a TDI and petrol engine trim. 

I don't think Audi of America wants to leave the current US A3 owners out in the cold: which is 100% sportback owners I would think. 

As for a S3 sportback, I can't be sure. Like you, I'd be willing to wait and pay for it. It is curious that in the press release, the convert the UK cycle mpgs to US cycle mpgs. That's probably reading into it a bit, but I normally don't see that in press for cars that aren't coming stateside in some form...


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## fjork_duf (Jul 13, 2001)

I would buy this today if they offered it in the USA. It's too bad the hot hatches of audi are not available in the here. I'm sure the sedan will be nice, but I prefer hatches. I'd pay 45k for it fully loaded if audi brought one.

I think they would surely cannibalize all STI and EVO sales with this car. SUPER nice looking, high quality interior DSG/AWD 300hp (Very tunable I'm sure). It's a win-win. WHY AUDI???

George! You need to get on the phone and persuade them. I had no idea the S3 would be such a nice car at 300hp. As much as I love the 5, I can say I'd have a hard time not opting for this car. 

Audi USA are you listening?


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## fjork_duf (Jul 13, 2001)

This is also making me shed a tear:

http://www.audi.co.uk/new-cars/a3/s3-sportback.html

Blue is so hot on this car.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

I will be ordering one, sedan or sportback, i dont care, the very first day the order guide comes out.

now to figure out which custom color mine will be in.
my 2013 allroad will be traded in on the S3 100% this IS my next car.


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## marauder (Oct 21, 2000)

Wow, looks even better in the blue. Sportback S3 6spd manual would be first choice, but i'd sign up for the sedan without hesitation. $44K with some options would be my sweet spot. 
Know we just need to hear that Audi will have it available in the US by Sept/Oct! done deal


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Rudy_H said:


> Third gen EA888?


Yes, EA888 but augmented. Think of it as what the old S3 engine was to the old 2.0 TFSI.


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## Exousia (Feb 22, 2010)

Oh dear lord that blue. Please god Audi, give us an S3 sportback. It's either glacier white or that blue for me. 44k near fully loaded?


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> Yes, EA888 but augmented. Think of it as what the old S3 engine was to the old 2.0 TFSI.


George - it will be the "Audified" version of the EA888 with valvelift and dual-port injection, correct? My understanding is that this will be exclusive to Audi, with VW foregoing the DPI and valvelift.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> George - it will be the "Audified" version of the EA888 with valvelift and dual-port injection, correct? My understanding is that this will be exclusive to Audi, with VW foregoing the DPI and valvelift.


Same tech just 0.2L more displacement and strapping a K04 to it.
http://www.aachen-colloquium.com/pdf/Vortr_Nachger/2011/A1.1_Wurms_Audi.pdf


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Travis Grundke said:


> George - it will be the "Audified" version of the EA888 with valvelift and dual-port injection, correct? My understanding is that this will be exclusive to Audi, with VW foregoing the DPI and valvelift.


The last S3/TTS/Golf R motor was an Audified 2.0T. EA 888 is already an engine developed by Audi whereas that was not the case for the last engine. EA 888 is a modular design much like MQB or MLB are modular platforms and it was developed under Wolfgang Hatz before he left Audi for Porsche.

Will VW use it? I really don't see a reason why they wouldn't use it as the step-up engine. Most of their vehicles are transverse and this is one of the more powerful applications that is applicable for transverse fitment. The next Golf R, for instance, would likely do well to use this engine.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> The last S3/TTS/Golf R motor was an Audified 2.0T. EA 888 is already an engine developed by Audi whereas that was not the case for the last engine. EA 888 is a modular design much like MQB or MLB are modular platforms and it was developed under Wolfgang Hatz before he left Audi for Porsche.
> 
> Will VW use it? I really don't see a reason why they wouldn't use it as the step-up engine. Most of their vehicles are transverse and this is one of the more powerful applications that is applicable for transverse fitment. The next Golf R, for instance, would likely do well to use this engine.


So are some engines used in Audi but not VW because of marketing reasons where they justify the higher cost of Audis with a slightly better engine? Or is it because Audi is actually a separate division where it keeps its engine technology in-house and not let its pedestrian cousin have it? Audi kept valvelift and any use of alum block from their own cars w/transverse platform (TT/A3) for the longest time. There was no reason to not develop it for the TT. Was it because once its developed for the transverse platform, VW could come and put it in their J6P cars?

Also, given the 1.8T has been completely revamped with a alum crankcase, when will it be applied to the 2.0T or even 2.5T. They are talking about cutting weight here and there (and apparently went with a lighter but less capable Haldex Gen V), but that extra 100LB or so sitting in the engine is not dealt with.


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

George, what's the thought on this coming to the states?


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Will the available 2.0T be a dual injection (Port+DI) like the new 1.8T?


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

i just got back from the canadian auto show. the audi rep there seemed convinced the a3 sedan wasn't coming until next year. he mentioned that there were delays but then he also mentioned maybe they were stalling to see how the mercedes cla was going to be priced.


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## fjork_duf (Jul 13, 2001)

Dear Audi,

I want the S3 sport back in the United States. I will put a deposit at my local dealer tomorrow if you bring it. 

Blue/DSG/Fully loaded

Thanks!

George: Who do we have to bribe in the Audi executive team to get this car to the USA?


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

LWNY said:


> So are some engines used in Audi but not VW because of marketing reasons where they justify the higher cost of Audis with a slightly better engine? Or is it because Audi is actually a separate division where it keeps its engine technology in-house and not let its pedestrian cousin have it? Audi kept valvelift and any use of alum block from their own cars w/transverse platform (TT/A3) for the longest time. There was no reason to not develop it for the TT. Was it because once its developed for the transverse platform, VW could come and put it in their J6P cars?
> 
> Also, given the 1.8T has been completely revamped with a alum crankcase, when will it be applied to the 2.0T or even 2.5T. They are talking about cutting weight here and there (and apparently went with a lighter but less capable Haldex Gen V), but that extra 100LB or so sitting in the engine is not dealt with.


So a modular strategy has been employed in many ways to allow for more cost effective production of multiple variants. This can be seen in a chassis architecture like MQB, infotainment platform like MIB and engine family like EA888. In some cases, things start in a higher trim level because of cost and may or may not matriculate down as needed (Valvelift). Valvelift started in A4 and it's now in A3 and TT, not sure about any VWs.

I don't want to guess what reasons they have for developing something, not developing something or not installing in this vehicle or that vehicle. That'd be guessing, but I'd be certain cost is a major factor depending on the cars' positioning. Are politics ever involved? Sometimes. I do hear that VW wanted the 2.5 TFSI but that thus far Audi has not wanted to share it. How they keep that from happening I won't say because what I hear is rumor and who knows on that stuff.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

djdub said:


> George, what's the thought on this coming to the states?


Sedan S3 = very likely
Cabriolet S3 = possible, we're the biggest cabriolet market for A5/S5 and R8.
Sportback S3 = unclear but possible. They're looking at Sportback body style. What that means for model proliferation and thus S3 or RS 3 remains to be seen. Likely this will all be sales dependent and thus maybe limited to facelift cycle as was done with RS 5, but I'm totally guessing on that last part.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> Sedan S3 = very likely
> Cabriolet S3 = possible, we're the biggest cabriolet market for A5/S5 and R8.
> Sportback S3 = unclear but possible. They're looking at Sportback body style. What that means for model proliferation and thus S3 or RS 3 remains to be seen. Likely this will all be sales dependent and thus maybe limited to facelift cycle as was done with RS 5, but I'm totally guessing on that last part.


I think part of the big fudge factor is that Audi has already stated that the Q3 will be coming to North America. Like in the A4 range, the Q5 has essentially rendered the standard A4 Avant a no-go in North America. Likely they're thinking a similar strategy with the Q3 / A3 Sportback - where the Q3 will render the Sportback moot, with the exception of a 'special' model, ala the allroad. 

Speaking of Q3 - any word on a NA introduction timeline?


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Travis Grundke said:


> I think part of the big fudge factor is that Audi has already stated that the Q3 will be coming to North America. Like in the A4 range, the Q5 has essentially rendered the standard A4 Avant a no-go in North America. Likely they're thinking a similar strategy with the Q3 / A3 Sportback - where the Q3 will render the Sportback moot, with the exception of a 'special' model, ala the allroad.
> 
> Speaking of Q3 - any word on a NA introduction timeline?


Will see what I can find out in Geneva. Some intel says RS Q3 is coming here as well.

-G


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## Eurofan4eva (Aug 21, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Will see what I can find out in Geneva. Some intel says RS Q3 is coming here as well.
> 
> -G


RS Q3 would be on my short list...


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## Exousia (Feb 22, 2010)

I wouldn't even consider any type a SUV, small or full-sized. Not at this time in my life, anyway.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

Exousia said:


> I wouldn't even consider any type a SUV, small or full-sized. Not at this time in my life, anyway.


couldn't agree more. never in my lifetime. no cuvs/suvs. they are not substitutes for wagons. shopping for a new car has become quite an exercise in frustration and futility. i've never driven an automatic and it seems every manufacturer has decided to kill the manual. audi killed the a4 wagon and the all road is auto only. not sure what to expect wrt the sportback in NA. bmw in canada only offers an awd manual in their top of the line 335xi. that's 54k bucks up here. luckily audi still offers the a4 quattro sedan with a manual. i would prefer the new a3 sedan or a3 sportback though. even a s3 sedan or sportback would still be a less expensive alternative to buying an overpriced 3 series if a awd manual tranny version comes.


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## t.oorboh! (Feb 11, 2012)

bmw is still going to bring the 328 touring xdrive and it should still be offered with a manual.

there's the golf R or GTI

i'd hate myself if i bought a q3 or any cuv

quite frankly the pickings are slim for wagon/hatchbacks. my next car might be the upcoming mazda 3 hatchback.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

Bmw doesn't even offer a manual in their wagons. The only xdrive avail with manual is the 335i sedan. The s3 sportback manual Quattro would be best possible alternative.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Exousia said:


> I wouldn't even consider any type a SUV, small or full-sized. Not at this time in my life, anyway.


Funny thing about that notion. Had you asked me when the Q5 launched I'd have agreed because I didn't appreciate crossovers. I'd still rather have the wagon or the Sportback but you have to appreciate the Q5 and Q3 for what they are (note I did not include Q7). The middle and smallest are based on car platforms, and in the case of the Q5 this means the wider track of the A5 with a shorter wheelbase. In many ways these cars are like tall hatchbacks (aforementioned Golf comes to mind) but with load-flat floors like the Avant.

If you have the chance, sit in an A3 and a Golf back to back. The Golf feels like a crossover, the roof is so crazily high. The Golf is very utilitarian and if you jacked it up and no Tiguan were on the market, it might be a credible crossover IMO. When you lower one of these smaller crossovers (RS Q3 especially so) it looks more like an upmarket GTi (lower case I meaning not VW specific) than it does a crossover. And while I've not seen a Q5 yet that low (RS Q5?) I have driven the SQ5 and it handles really very well. It lacks only a Sport Differential and otherwise I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

Would I buy an RS Q3 over an RS 3 Sportback? If they handled nearly the same (and I suspect they will) then I would if all other things are equal. Effectively it's a tall RS 3 Avant in form.


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## steve111b (Jun 2, 2011)

Yes, I have sat in an A3 and then a Golf. And yes, I was surprised at the headroom in the Golf. The first thing I check when I buy a car is the headroom.
I have always bought hatchbacks/wagons because I need decent headroom. I suspect I will not fit in the A3 sedan, especially when Audi Canada equips them with sunroof and power seats.
Your comments about the Q3 are very encouraging. I prefer to own a car (A3 Sportback), but you make a good case to think about the Q3.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

+1 George. You've hit the nail on the head. 

In North America hatches and wagons are a hard sell for any number of reasons. Valid or not, it is what it is. Crossovers and SUVs, however, are incredible cash cows for automakers. Find a nice middle ground between sedan+wagon+SUV (= crossover) and you've got gold - and why models such as the SQ5 and SQ3/RS Q3 may find their way to market.

Audi's test with the allroad and its pricing I think is an attempt to determine just how badly the wagon fans want their vehicles. Maybe this is Audi's way of trying to attach a premium valuation on wagons and change their perception. Maybe it's the only way to profitably bring a wagon to the US. Anecdotally they sure seem to be selling well, so maybe it's working.

I could see Audi doing something similar with the MQB Sportback - bringing over one or two 'unique' models for the wagon fans, but pricing it at a premium. If the wagon fans are there and are willing to pony up - they'll just have to.

I had a Q5 for an extended weekend as a loaner last year and really enjoyed it much more than I thought I would. The only downside was that there was more wind noise than I expected out of a $46,000 car. Otherwise, a Q5 is definitely on my list of future family cars. I really don't know if I would pay the premium for an allroad over a Q5, regardless how much I like wagons.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

George's comments about headroom also made me think about circling back to the advantages of the MQB/MLB architecture: niches. We may make fun of them, but the ability to *profitably *assemble niche vehicles is the best way to capture marginal sales and avoid people defecting to other brands. The A3/Golf/GTI comparison works great here: the Golf definitely feels bigger on the inside whereas the A3 feels much more intimate, with a significantly lower roofline, especially in the back.

The A5/A4/A5 Sportback is another great example: like the looks of the A5 coupe, need the functionality of four doors and think the standard A4 is a bit stodgy looking? No problem - Audi has the A5 Sportback to fit the bill. 

A6/A7/A8 is the same: want the luxury of a C and D segment vehicle but want to stand out a bit more from the norm? No problem - A7 is your friend.


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## Exousia (Feb 22, 2010)

Travis Grundke said:


> I could see Audi doing something similar with the MQB Sportback - bringing over one or two 'unique' models for the wagon fans, but pricing it at a premium. If the wagon fans are there and are willing to pony up - they'll just have to.


I am absolutely willing to may a resonable premium(read:not $10,000) for the wagon form factor. I can't see them doing the S3 really, but bring the TDI and a 2.0 TFSI and let folks pay for some options, and everybody should be happy.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Will see what I can find out in Geneva. Some intel says RS Q3 is coming here as well.
> 
> -G


This is sooo sad.

It's not just an Audi problem. I got to drive my friends dads Volvo V50 on the weekend on a short road trip. I was like 'hmmm why not check out the V50 pricing??' I wasn't thinking about it, but whenever I think Volvo I think wagon. Only because people I know who own Volvo's have had their Volvo for literally 10-15 yrs, wagon and going strong!!

Alas, in Canada, they completely discontinued wagons in Volvo's line-up.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> I had a Q5 for an extended weekend as a loaner last year and really enjoyed it much more than I thought I would. The only downside was that there was more wind noise than I expected out of a $46,000 car. Otherwise, a Q5 is definitely on my list of future family cars. I really don't know if I would pay the premium for an allroad over a Q5, regardless how much I like wagons.


Another issue...

I priced a Q5 vs S4. Yes two different cars, but think about the similarities...
Q5 was cheaper then an A4 (2.0T) and S4 (3.0T) with respective engines.

I completely agree on the premium side of things, if it's a a car, they simply cost more then SUV's. 

Poor people drive SUV's, spread the word. If you have class and money you buy sedans and sportbacks.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

I will not be buying any size SUV and even less interest in an RS version of one. I read the posts above but still don't understand the point of a tall, high powered, expensive SUV. You don't take it off road, it is heavy and doesn't handle nearly as well as the car version. I guess you can lower it and end up with something that makes even less sense.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

two things that kill me about living in NA. the obsession people have with suv and cuvs and the full on death march against the manual transmission.


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## fjork_duf (Jul 13, 2001)

The RSQ3 is cool but just not what I personally want. It's way too tall, heavy and the center of gravity is too high for the occasional track day and autox. With that said the TT-RS I have now is perfect but I can't fit anything in it. (4 people etc) That's why I want the RS3 or S3 in sportback form. A racy/sporty SUV just isn't as sporty any way you look at it. 

Audi is so hot right now they could sell the crap out of some sport backs.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Rudy_H said:


> This is sooo sad.
> 
> It's not just an Audi problem. I got to drive my friends dads Volvo V50 on the weekend on a short road trip. I was like 'hmmm why not check out the V50 pricing??' I wasn't thinking about it, but whenever I think Volvo I think wagon. Only because people I know who own Volvo's have had their Volvo for literally 10-15 yrs, wagon and going strong!!
> 
> Alas, in Canada, they completely discontinued wagons in Volvo's line-up.


BTW, I launched Swedespeed.com back in 2001 and my company still operates it. Chris Stewart manages that site now but I am still involved on it more behind the scenes. As such I do have a bit of a read on Volvo and our intel over there is telling us that the V60 is coming and will be shown at a North American show within the next 12 months. 

Is this an indication of a rebirth of wagons? We'll see. I suspect Volvo just really needs some new product for this market, but if it does well then I'm certain that others like Audi will take note.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Rudy_H said:


> Another issue...
> 
> I priced a Q5 vs S4. Yes two different cars, but think about the similarities...
> Q5 was cheaper then an A4 (2.0T) and S4 (3.0T) with respective engines.
> ...


Behind the scenes, there's more material cost in the S4 is one guess. The interior components (leather sport seats, carbon fiber trim) are all more expensive and it DOES come with sport diff and available S tronic or manual whereas no Q5 variant including SQ5 comes with these. Still, the way they have it priced (the Q5) it is an excellent value... especially with the new 3.0 TFSI


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

dmorrow said:


> I will not be buying any size SUV and even less interest in an RS version of one. I read the posts above but still don't understand the point of a tall, high powered, expensive SUV. You don't take it off road, it is heavy and doesn't handle nearly as well as the car version. I guess you can lower it and end up with something that makes even less sense.


That's why I didn't include Q7 in my post. That T architecture (about to get replaced by MLB for next-gen) is heavier and less agile. Yes, Porsche has done wonders with the Cayenne, but still. The Q5 is MLB and not much different from the A5/A4 in weight. With S5 or RS 5 (not sure the track) suspension components on the car I suspect the Q5 would sit the same and have only a very marginally higher center of gravity. That you perceive it as taller and heavier is likely more a testament to the Audi Design Team.

Q3? The current version has more in common with the current (not MQB) A3. The infotainment is more A1. That's all inside baseball, but where I'm going with that is that it may very well handle as well as say a current-gen RS 3 given the right suspension setup. I was really encouraged by the stance of the RS Q3 concept car. The production RS Q3, shown yesterday in CGI photos, looks to be slightly taller. We'll see at Geneva and more importantly when we have a chance to drive one.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

kevlartoronto said:


> two things that kill me about living in NA. the obsession people have with suv and cuvs and the full on death march against the manual transmission.


The MT thing is not an NA thing. Look at Ferrari and most of the new German models. You can't even get an MT6 S4/S5 in Germany any more. They see faster lap times and better fuel economy of the S tronic and logically don't see the need to develop the MT6. I prefer manual too, but that is the direction the auto industry is going.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Behind the scenes, there's more material cost in the S4 is one guess. The interior components (leather sport seats, carbon fiber trim) are all more expensive and it DOES come with sport diff and available S tronic or manual whereas no Q5 variant including SQ5 comes with these. Still, the way they have it priced (the Q5) it is an excellent value... especially with the new 3.0 TFSI


I will admit, I haven't personally sat in a A4 vs Q5 to compare. Neither of course a Q5 vs S4 to comment on quality. Looking at the pictures, the S-Line seats in the Q5 don't seem to compare to S4, and doubtful to the A4 S-Line to be honest, which looks like a good indicator in itself.

There were items though such as where in the S4 you would would put the Sport Diff, I would have chosen the panoramic roof. 

I won't argue though, the 3.0TFSI Q5 is one of the best values in Audi's line-up. If APR came up with a setup like in the S4, this could be a fun CUV, maybe some coil overs? 

Or just price a wagon the same price 

With others, I am willing to take a $4-5k premium for a S3 Sportback or A3 Sportback over the sedan.


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## fjork_duf (Jul 13, 2001)

s3 sportback - 3186 lbs 0-60 5.5s
rsq3 - 3800lbs 0-60 5.5s

Not to mention the ride height difference and fuel consumption differences. If you put the 2.5 5 in a RS3 sportback you are most likely sub 5s maybe 4.5s easily. Not to mention less body roll. 

I will make a deal with Audi. If they start a web site where they take deposits for the s3 in the USA I would put one on an S3 sportback today.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> That's why I didn't include Q7 in my post. That T architecture (about to get replaced by MLB for next-gen) is heavier and less agile. Yes, Porsche has done wonders with the Cayenne, but still. The Q5 is MLB and not much different from the A5/A4 in weight. With S5 or RS 5 (not sure the track) suspension components on the car I suspect the Q5 would sit the same and have only a very marginally higher center of gravity. That you perceive it as taller and heavier is likely more a testament to the Audi Design Team.
> 
> Q3? The current version has more in common with the current (not MQB) A3. The infotainment is more A1. That's all inside baseball, *but where I'm going with that is that it may very well handle as well as say a current-gen RS 3 given the right suspension setup*. I was really encouraged by the stance of the RS Q3 concept car. The production RS Q3, shown yesterday in CGI photos, looks to be slightly taller. We'll see at Geneva and more importantly when we have a chance to drive one.


No matter what they do to the RS Q3 or Q5 (or even Q7 in the future) it won't handle as well, be as fast, or be as efficient as the similar car with the same engine and equal suspension. 

You're saying that the new RS Q3 might handle as well as the current (soon to be old) RS A3? How about comparing the new RS Q3 to a new RS A3?

I realize you don't make the decisions but for me I am still looking for my next vehicle to be a car (not a small SUV based on a car platform).


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

fjork_duf said:


> s3 sportback - 3186 lbs 0-60 5.5s
> rsq3 - 3800lbs 0-60 5.5s
> 
> Not to mention the ride height difference and fuel consumption differences. If you put the 2.5 5 in a RS3 sportback you are most likely sub 5s maybe 4.5s easily. Not to mention less body roll.
> ...


The funny thing is, the RS Q3 just made Autoblog...it's getting torn apart bad lol. Here I thought it was just enthusiasts waiting for the MQB A3. Hopefully the new president of AoA knows what he's doing...


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## MickSF (May 22, 2008)

Exousia said:


> I wouldn't even consider any type a SUV, small or full-sized. Not at this time in my life, anyway.


I agree 100%


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

I just hope the USA gets one of these two choices. RS3 Sportback or RS Q3. I would love either one and will happily place a deposit when announced for availability.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

dmorrow said:


> No matter what they do to the RS Q3 or Q5 (or even Q7 in the future) it won't handle as well, be as fast, or be as efficient as the similar car with the same engine and equal suspension.
> 
> You're saying that the new RS Q3 might handle as well as the current (soon to be old) RS A3? How about comparing the new RS Q3 to a new RS A3?
> 
> I realize you don't make the decisions but for me I am still looking for my next vehicle to be a car (not a small SUV based on a car platform).


I'm talking like for like. Q3 is PQ35 chassis and closer to the first-gen RS 3 structurally.

What I'm saying is that if you put like-for-like suspension components on the chassis siblings (A5 vs. Q5, A3 vs. Q3) you'd have nearly the same handling. Yes, the center of gravity will be slightly higher on the Q version that is true, but that would make a difference that would be hard for most consumers to experience except perhaps on a track... and even then it'd be close.

The reason I emphasize like-for-like suspension is that they should be compatible and that from the factory they don't appear to be running the same setups. SQ5 (which I've driven, and is really a rock star for what it is) sits higher than the S4 Avant and more so for the RS 4 Avant. If you put the RS 4's suspension components and drivetrain in the SQ5, you'd have a very badass machine. The thing is more that from the factory they likely won't go that aggressive on suspension because it's not really where the market is.

Let me go back to the Golf vs. A3 argument for a minute. These cars are chassis siblings, yet the Golf has a higher center of gravity than does the A3 (so long as we're talking steel roof versions of each). Still, I wouldn't say the Golf is a lumbering barge as compared to the A3. There is handling difference, but that's primarily suspension tuning and not from the higher set mass of the Golf's roof structure. I'd argue the same applies to Q5 and Q3.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

i think most customers either want a car or they want a suv/cuv. there's a big wall between the two. i love wagons and hatches but can't stand suvs or cuvs. there's absolutely no appeal. comparing the two is a little futile in this regard.


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

Enough about the Q3....I want my S3! :wave:


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> I'm talking like for like. Q3 is PQ35 chassis and closer to the first-gen RS 3 structurally.
> 
> What I'm saying is that if you put like-for-like suspension components on the chassis siblings (A5 vs. Q5, A3 vs. Q3) you'd have nearly the same handling. Yes, the center of gravity will be slightly higher on the Q version that is true, but that would make a difference that would be hard for most consumers to experience except perhaps on a track... and even then it'd be close.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying but still you're saying at best the Q would almost be as good, not as good. Still can't see a reason I (maybe others would) would want the SUV version of anything over the car. I don't need ground clearance or a bigger vehicle and the weight and height that goes with it.

The Golf vs. A3 comparison doesn't seem to me the same as an A3 vs. Q3.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

it's not a sportback but why is this bad boy in the usa? http://www.autospies.com/news/EXCLU...Spotted-On-U-S-Soil-For-The-FIRST-Time-74824/


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## Exousia (Feb 22, 2010)

kevlartoronto said:


> it's not a sportback but why is this bad boy in the usa? http://www.autospies.com/news/EXCLU...Spotted-On-U-S-Soil-For-The-FIRST-Time-74824/


That's not the first time the A3 hatch has been spotted on this side of the pond, basically its here to dealer and product managers to check it out, train. I saw an Audi A1 with dealer plates last year in Dallas.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

kevlartoronto said:


> it's not a sportback but why is this bad boy in the usa? http://www.autospies.com/news/EXCLU...Spotted-On-U-S-Soil-For-The-FIRST-Time-74824/


There are a few floating around the US, notably in California and around the Washington, DC 'burbs near Audi HQ. Training fleet.


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

Starting to get super stoked. I really hope Audi of America comes through on the S3 Hatch/Sportback. Have a good weekend guys!


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## fjork_duf (Jul 13, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> I'm talking like for like. Q3 is PQ35 chassis and closer to the first-gen RS 3 structurally.
> 
> What I'm saying is that if you put like-for-like suspension components on the chassis siblings (A5 vs. Q5, A3 vs. Q3) you'd have nearly the same handling. Yes, the center of gravity will be slightly higher on the Q version that is true, but that would make a difference that would be hard for most consumers to experience except perhaps on a track... and even then it'd be close.


Except with 600-700lbs of extra mass your car is slower, and it will use tires more frequently. Not to mention the reduction in gas mileage.



[email protected] said:


> Let me go back to the Golf vs. A3 argument for a minute. These cars are chassis siblings, yet the Golf has a higher center of gravity than does the A3 (so long as we're talking steel roof versions of each). Still, I wouldn't say the Golf is a lumbering barge as compared to the A3. There is handling difference, but that's primarily suspension tuning and not from the higher set mass of the Golf's roof structure. I'd argue the same applies to Q5 and Q3.


Touche, but the Golf still has a weight advantage over a Q car. Also it's seating position. I prefer sitting lower, and closer to the ground. Feeling like I'm "in" the car rather than sitting on a pedestal like the Q series.

I think the bottom line is that I LOVE audis, as we all do. I hope it makes financial sense for the company to offer all the body options here. I have seen lots of activity on this S3 Sportback online, and I would say that it would sell well here in the USA. Audi financially is doing very well, so why not just offer the car special order only? I am still torn as to whether I'd buy the RS3 sportback or S3 sportback. I would take either with DSG honestly. 

Heck I'd still strongly consider the RS4 if that's all they offered in wagon form, although I generally prefer smaller wagon/hatch type cars. I almost bought myself the current-gen STI, but it was just too cheap feeling inside. The S3/RS3 hatch would fit my needs perfectly. There are no cars in the USA right now serving that segment.


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## Bryan S (Aug 28, 2000)

George, Travis - Thanks for the good information in this and other threads. I haven't had this interest in an upcoming car since the '04 R32. Hopefully the sportback is approved for sale, as I prefer that form factor, but wouldn't rule out a sedan until physically seeing it. Regardless of RS Q3 v. S3 driving dynamics, I assume the RS Q3, being an RS, would be priced higher than I could justify spending.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Bryan S said:


> George, Travis - Thanks for the good information in this and other threads. I haven't had this interest in an upcoming car since the '04 R32. Hopefully the sportback is approved for sale, as I prefer that form factor, but wouldn't rule out a sedan until physically seeing it. Regardless of RS Q3 v. S3 driving dynamics, I assume the RS Q3, being an RS, would be priced higher than I could justify spending.


Unfortunately, while the Sportback is being 'reviewed for sale', it is not guaranteed, nor are there any definite plans for its launch in the near future. 

That said, I just returned from an Audi Club event and spoke with an Audi of America rep who informed me that as of now the expectation is for the A3 to be announced at the New York autoshow and be on sale between August and September. The caveat given is that there is a possibility that the announcement could be pulled and pushed to Shanghai, but the current expectation is New York.

Take it for what it is worth.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

travis that makes sense. that way both NA and asia get their introductions.


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

Travis Grundke said:


> Unfortunately, while the Sportback is being 'reviewed for sale', it is not guaranteed, nor are there any definite plans for its launch in the near future.
> 
> That said, I just returned from an Audi Club event and spoke with an Audi of America rep who informed me that as of now the expectation is for the A3 to be announced at the New York autoshow and be on sale between August and September. The caveat given is that there is a possibility that the announcement could be pulled and pushed to Shanghai, but the current expectation is New York.
> 
> Take it for what it is worth.


Will the 2014 A3 Sportback in NA have quattro ? I was looking at the 2013 A3 Sportback on Audi UK and there's no option for choosing quattro when trying to build one  , I know the NA options will be different, but strange none the less ..... Need a new daily car, and trying to hold out for the A3 Sportback Quattro, or S3 Sportback if the price is right..... I guess we'll all be on the look out for the info from the New York Autoshow... hopefully they show the same love for the Canadian folks


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

The new sportback is available with Quattro in Germany.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Travis Grundke said:


> Unfortunately, while the Sportback is being 'reviewed for sale', it is not guaranteed, nor are there any definite plans for its launch in the near future.
> 
> That said, I just returned from an Audi Club event and spoke with an Audi of America rep who informed me that as of now the expectation is for the A3 to be announced at the New York autoshow and be on sale between August and September. The caveat given is that there is a possibility that the announcement could be pulled and pushed to Shanghai, but the current expectation is New York.
> 
> Take it for what it is worth.


I'm hearing "something" is in the plans for NY. Usually nothing of much merit is in the plans for NY, so I'm hopeful.


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

kevlartoronto said:


> The new sportback is available with Quattro in Germany.


Strange..... I guess we wait for NY Auto Show, and hope for the best.... The whole point of buying a new car is for the Quattro... come on Audi Canada lol


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

i'll be shocked if they announce that the new sportback is coming to NA at NY auto show. i'll be even more shocked if they bring the s3 sportback to NA given the s3 sedan most definitely will be coming. 

for me, i just want them to at minimum bring a manual transmission with quattro in the a3/s3 lineup. it would be stellar if it was an high output diesel but i'm not holding my breath.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

kevlartoronto said:


> i'll be shocked if they announce that the new sportback is coming to NA at NY auto show. i'll be even more shocked if they bring the s3 sportback to NA given the s3 sedan most definitely will be coming.
> 
> for me, i just want them to at minimum bring a manual transmission with quattro in the a3/s3 lineup. it would be stellar if it was an high output diesel but i'm not holding my breath.


I doubt there will be any Sportback news. I don't have specific info but if I had to guess I'd guess that the Sportback can and will come with the launch of the production e-tron. My gut says (and no intel) that if the line were to be expanded then that would happen after the e-tron is established in market and perhaps after the P.I. (facelift).

Sedan may likely be revealed in NY if I am reading something someone mentioned to me correctly.


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## Exousia (Feb 22, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I doubt there will be any Sportback news. I don't have specific info but if I had to guess I'd guess that the Sportback can and will come with the launch of the production e-tron. My gut says (and no intel) that if the line were to be expanded then that would happen after the e-tron is established in market and perhaps after the P.I. (facelift).


If that's so, I'll be taking my money elsewhere in the meantime. 

If they can't bring a petrol A3/S3 sportback to US shores by Spring 2014, even with the premium that people are willing to pay, or even as an order-only model, then I'll have to buy elsewhere. Simple. I'd make a point to not buy the GTI/GTD also, don't want the money to get to Audi indirectly.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> I doubt there will be any Sportback news. I don't have specific info but if I had to guess I'd guess that the Sportback can and will come with the launch of the production e-tron. My gut says (and no intel) that if the line were to be expanded then that would happen after the e-tron is established in market and perhaps after the P.I. (facelift).
> 
> Sedan may likely be revealed in NY if I am reading something someone mentioned to me correctly.



Agreed 100%. No Sportback for the foreseeable future.

On the sedan front, if you read today's anniversary announcement for Audi Hungary they mention the upcoming milestone of the SOP for a "new A3 model". Based on what I've read and heard from suppliers the official start of mass production is slated for May. Limited test runs of the new line were slated to start in February building to full capabilities in May. If the information I've seen is accurate that should put showroom cars on the ground in the US by August.


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## cyberpmg (Nov 27, 2001)

Travis Grundke said:


> No word on an RS3 for the NA market, but the chances of it coming here are pretty slim when you consider the price point: $50k+ for an RS3 would be an extremely hard sell here.


Audi is selling $60k+ TT RS in the US.... why not the RS3?


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

If I could lease an RS3 for the same price as an S4, I would be all over it!


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

Exousia said:


> If that's so, I'll be taking my money elsewhere in the meantime.
> 
> If they can't bring a petrol A3/S3 sportback to US shores by Spring 2014, even with the premium that people are willing to pay, or even as an order-only model, then I'll have to buy elsewhere. Simple. I'd make a point to not buy the GTI/GTD also, don't want the money to get to Audi indirectly.


it's a real shame but it looks like the sportback is going to take a back seat to the sedan here in NA. 

first they killed the a6 avant. then they killed the manual transmission option for the a4 avant. then they killed the a4 avant all together. i thought, ok, i guess i'm getting a rwd 3 series wagon..... surprise!!!!! no manual with their wagon either. now the sportback is on the chopping block. there are not a lot of options left esp if you want a manual. 

this is vehicular mass murder!!! (q3 does not equal hot hatch audi of america execs!!!) :what::screwy:


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

cyberpmg said:


> Audi is selling $60k+ TT RS in the US.... why not the RS3?


Well, I'll hedge and say "never say never", but the market for a $60k sports coupe is likely larger than it is for a $50k A3 sedan. The TT is a unique offering. The market overlap between S4, S5, RS5 and RS3 might be a bit much at this point in time.

One thing to keep in mind is that Audi is still a bit player in the US market compared to Mercedes, BMW and even Lexus. The business plan is to substantially grow the base, and with that growth we should see more speciality models trickle into the mix.

It's easier to trickle in very high margin product like the TDI A6, A7, A8, the S6, S7, S8 and the RS models because you can justify these models' lower sales volume. It's harder to do that on lower margin product.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

kevlartoronto said:


> how about a subaru sti? :what::screwy:


Sad and true...although I will say again, watch out for the WRX / STi for 2014. I have a strong feeling Audi is going to be in trouble based off their dull effort so far with the A3. The only thing that the WRX will share with the Impreza is the chassis, the WRX and STi are going up scale, which honestly the WRX / STi was arguably as good as the 8P A3...side by side interior wise. Performance wise it blew the A3 out of the water, and with the far superior system in the Subaru vs the Haldex...you will have to be a real brand whore to keep buying an Audi A3.

Of course if Subaru becomes a threat Audi has the whole stable over seas to bring over...but being German, that is just plain embarrassing...Germany always won by striking first and with guns blazing


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

oh their guns are blazing alright. killing every car i show interest in!!! 

my options for a manual transmission have been reduced so much i'm seriously considering giving up on the manual and buying the 328d xdrive with paddle shifters. at least with the 328d, i can get an high output diesel and awd together. every company is going full tilt into offering awd and bmw and mercedes is moving quickly into the diesel world here in NA. audi might end up being caught with their pants down if they are too slow and conservative with their offerings.


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

Give it time dudes!


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

LOL, this tread makes me sadder every day............ I could live with the Sedan, if it had Quattro, DSG, S-line and looked like the renderings (or close), if there is no sportback...... personally, I don't need another manual daily car, when its going to be an A to B kind of car...... Manual only would push me to end up buying an Evo 8 or Evo 9 lol........ The new A4's don't look good at all, the A5's blow my budget to pieces, and Merc C350 is a little too wide for my liking (drove my cousins, 650km in a day, mostly highway), New subaru's not to my liking, and manual only for the STI...BMW is over priced.... A3 series is my last hope for now, come on AUDI !!! 

Manual is a dying breed, I cant see them killing it off yet though. I would think Europe seems to have embraced DSG more than NA... If manuals dies in Europe it will die everywhere else


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

Boosted 01 R said:


> LOL, this tread makes me sadder every day............ I could live with the Sedan, if it had Quattro, DSG, S-line and looked like the renderings (or close), if there is no sportback...... personally, I don't need another manual daily car, when its going to be an A to B kind of car...... Manual only would push me to end up buying an Evo 8 or Evo 9 lol........ The new A4's don't look good at all, the A5's blow my budget to pieces, and Merc C350 is a little too wide for my liking (drove my cousins, 650km in a day, mostly highway), New subaru's not to my liking, and manual only for the STI...BMW is over priced.... A3 series is my last hope for now, come on AUDI !!!
> 
> Manual is a dying breed, I cant see them killing it off yet though. I would think Europe seems to have embraced DSG more than NA... If manuals dies in Europe it will die everywhere else


I totally agree here. I've had both R32's and I went to an 08 STI, besides the fun, which lasted about a month, I missed my R32's more and more each day. I previously owned a TT 225 as well and just can't ever see a Subaru in the same ballpark as these cars. (Numbers are one thing, overall engineering and refinement are another.) 

With that said, I'm really bummed that Audi isn't showing their love to the US Hatch/Sportback group. This also makes me question how long the S3 will take to come to market now. Any word if the release cycle will be around the same time as an A3? I wish we had more pull with someone at AofA to get these suits to understand how much better a Sportback would be. :-(


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

All of you wagon guys never stepped up and bought the A3 the last 7 years in numbers to convince AoA that the sportback was a profitable volume model to bring here! Everyone talks about how they had VWs and Subarus for their wagon fix.

I agree 100% with the repeated assessment of Subaru, though. My car has more rattles and creaks than an old barn now, but I put up with it because it handles like its on rails and puts out 280hp. Im a bit more grown up, and would like something more refined, but about the same size and performance with better engine tech for mileage. S3 manual sedan sounds absolutely perfect.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

ChrisFu said:


> All of you wagon guys never stepped up and bought the A3 the last 7 years in numbers to convince AoA that the sportback was a profitable volume model to bring here! Everyone talks about how they had VWs and Subarus for their wagon fix.
> 
> I agree 100% with the repeated assessment of Subaru, though. My car has more rattles and creaks than an old barn now, but I put up with it because it handles like its on rails and puts out 280hp. Im a bit more grown up, and would like something more refined, but about the same size and performance with better engine tech for mileage. S3 manual sedan sounds absolutely perfect.


True, but only in 2009 Audi started building an A3 worth buying (2.0T /w Quattro). It was an option but I went a much different route...coupe. After owning such a 'highly practical car' I regret not buying an A3...so when I went out to buy an A3 this summer, and before signing the paper, alas MQB is coming!!! Screw everything I am holding out! (I would love a S3 Sportback, but if only an A3 Sportback is offered well I am taking that instead of a S3 sedan).

That said since 2009, I have seen a LOT more A3's on the road, and I don't mean priors, new A3's. autotrader / used car sites are a good indicator of what the general public wants / wanted. I think what an enthusiast, someone who takes time to sign up to a forum and turn Audi into their religion, has a much different view then the general public.

That's the only reason why I can see the RS Q3 selling, a motor head will say it is useless, it's Audi's version of a Nissan Joke and an embarrassment to Audi but more importantly the RS brand...Audi on the other hand thinks different.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

they really have to make the a3 standout more from many of it's own vw products. i've heard the comment a dozen times over. yah i like the sportback but it's soooo much more expensive than the gti,gli or sportwagen. 

first rule, don't offer the same engine with the same hp. the new a3 should have the high output diesel and higher output 2L turbo gas engine and match the a4 wrt the quattro offerings. i.e., offer quattro with manual and s tronic!!!


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Production numbers - 

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/audi-a3-sales-figures.html

Year Audi A3
U.S. Sales Canadian Sales 
2005 5389 1065 
2006 8040 1531 
2007 6353 1175 
2008 4759 1351 
2009 3874 1245 
2010 6558 1322 
2011 6561 1289 
2012 7205 1409

Even the best year is less than 10k cars.

Surprised that people really think they should provide all versions of this car that are possible. Sedan, Sportback, Diesel, gas, hybrid, standard gas/S3/RS3, manual/DSG, FWD/Quattro, various packages, colors, options. Don't know what they are estimating they will sell but they will be making decisions some won't be happy with.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

dmorrow said:


> Production numbers -
> Surprised that people really think they should provide all versions of this car that are possible. Sedan, Sportback, Diesel, gas, hybrid, standard gas/S3/RS3, manual/DSG, FWD/Quattro, various packages, colors, options. Don't know what they are estimating they will sell but they will be making decisions some won't be happy with.


My understanding is that Audi is looking to move between 20,000 - 30,000 A3 models per year in North America. Clearly the core of that will be the sedan, and the big question is how many current Sportback buyers would be content with the sedan, or begrudgingly purchased the Sportback because they wanted a small, premium, fuel efficient vehicle? 

I think that with the sedan they'll be able to move 20,000 units easily. That's only about 1,600 units per month for both the US and Canada.


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## Exousia (Feb 22, 2010)

dmorrow said:


> Production numbers -
> 
> 2011 6561 1289
> 2012 7205 1409


So the A3 has only been sold in North America as a Sportback in its history, correct? These past two model years, they sold 7850(2011) and 8614(2012)?



Travis Grundke said:


> My understanding is that Audi is looking to move between 20,000 - 30,000 A3 models per year in North America. Clearly the core of that will be the sedan, and the big question is how many current Sportback buyers would be content with the sedan, or begrudgingly purchased the Sportback because they wanted a small, premium, fuel efficient vehicle?
> 
> I think that with the sedan they'll be able to move 20,000 units easily. That's only about 1,600 units per month for both the US and Canada.


So the sedan only, a lower price, and some led headlights are going to add another 12,000-22,000 units a year? I don't buy it. I think its a large assumption people bought the previous A3's begrudgingly because there was no sedan. 

I don't understand why any US consumer is trying to make a case for less choice in any market, auto or otherwise. I think there is a way for Audi to make those lofty numbers, offer choice and a great products to the US market, and make their profits while expanding market share.

I don't think "sedan *only*" is part of that. Some of you may feel differently, but I respectfully disagree with every one of you. Guess we'll find out in the next 12-18 months.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Exousia said:


> So the sedan only, a lower price, and some led headlights are going to add another 12,000-22,000 units a year? I don't buy it. I think its a large assumption people bought the previous A3's begrudgingly because there was no sedan.


That's not quite it. The A3 was brought stateside partially as an experiment so that Audi could test the waters with a premium hatchback. The results were disappointing. Keep in mind also that the A3 received virtually no marketing support and no lease subvention support (not that Audi subvents leases much anyhow). The A3 was a loss maker for Audi North America. 

Fast forward 8 years to today. Audi is in a much stronger position and has learned substantially more about US tastes and preferences. Crossovers good, hatchbacks...niche. Instead, they're going for the meat and potatoes of the US market - sedans. Audi North America is planning a very substantial push for the new A3 sedan and a much more aggressive business plan for the car. 

Once they've relaunched the A3 in a form that will appeal to a broader base it is likely we will see additional variants trickle in, such as the Sportback. Audi is trying to avoid equating the A3 with hatchbacks in the minds of North American consumers. A major launch with the sedan first is the best way to accomplish this.

You're talking with someone who drives and loves his A3. I would greatly prefer the wagon over the sedan, but that's not a deal breaker for me. I certainly hope to put my hands on another Sportback in the future, but at this point in time it looks like my next move will be the sedan, and I'm a-okay with that.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

yes audi needs to prioritize bread and butter models but they should also fill in the gaps. audi could easily add a higher output version of their 2L petrol to the a4 lineup (260hp?) as well as a tdi to match bmw's 3 series offerings. wrt the a3 sedan, it will be popular but thinking that sportback buyers will simply move on to the sedan is a big mistake. imo hatchback drivers will just move on to other hatches.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

kevlartoronto said:


> yes audi needs to prioritize bread and butter models but they should also fill in the gaps. audi could easily add a higher output version of their 2L petrol to the a4 lineup (260hp?) as well as a tdi to match bmw's 3 series offerings. wrt the a3 sedan, it will be popular but thinking that sportback buyers will simply move on to the sedan is a big mistake. imo hatchback drivers will just move on to other hatches.


Give it time, folks. Give it time.


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## dogbolter (Feb 28, 2010)

kevlartoronto said:


> yes audi needs to prioritize bread and butter models but they should also fill in the gaps. audi could easily add a higher output version of their 2L petrol to the a4 lineup (260hp?) as well as a tdi to match bmw's 3 series offerings. wrt the a3 sedan, it will be popular but thinking that sportback buyers will simply move on to the sedan is a big mistake. imo hatchback drivers will just move on to other hatches.


Agreed, I'm one of those people.:thumbup:


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

if they don't announce this thang here at the ny auto show there'sa gunna be a lynchin!! or we are all going to spontaneously explode. :sly:


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

worst case we all buy 5-door Golf R's and stick Audi badges on them


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

Rudy_H said:


> worst case we all buy 5-door Golf R's and stick Audi badges on them


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## t.oorboh! (Feb 11, 2012)

dmorrow said:


> Production numbers -
> 
> http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/audi-a3-sales-figures.html
> 
> ...


the current gen a3 was introduced in 2003. that's 10 friggin years without a redesign. the a3 has been audi's lowest priority.


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

Rudy_H said:


> worst case we all buy 5-door Golf R's and stick Audi badges on them


lol............. they need to put a DSG and White Color Option in the Golf R and I would buy one for a Daily Driver, no problem


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

t.oorboh! said:


> the current gen a3 was introduced in 2003. that's 10 friggin years without a redesign. the a3 has been audi's lowest priority.


From what I understand the refresh that took place in 2009 was intended to be much more substantial, ala the MK V to VII Golf. Audi had a decision to make: put the resources into a significant redesign or wait for MQB. At the time Audi was pouring all of its engineering resources into MLB for the A4, Q5, A5, A6, A7 and A8. 

Thus, the decision was made to wait for MQB, share the development costs with Volkswagen and to ride out the 8P chassis as long as possible. If you think about it, the 8P had two substantial "PI's" in its cycle: the original 2003, the 2005 facelift and then the 2009 facelift. 

MQB is more than worth the wait. It will be with us for another 10+ years, but will provide for substantially more flexibility than in the past.


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

That part is fine by me. This new one will be worth the wait. :thumbup:


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

I wonder how the performance of the S3 will compare to the current S4?


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## Jay07GLI (May 27, 2007)

Boosted 01 R said:


> lol............. they need to put a DSG and White Color Option in the Golf R and I would buy one for a Daily Driver, no problem


You could get a white R and retrofit dsg, slap on the Audi badges if you want and you're probably paying about the same as an s3 sportback


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

t.oorboh! said:


> the current gen a3 was introduced in 2003. that's 10 friggin years without a redesign. the a3 has been audi's lowest priority.


lowest priority here for the US but one of its biggest sellers in Europe.


i have my money in hand waiting to order an S3 in whichever physical form it comes in.


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

Saw a picture of the S3 at Geneva 2013..... any new info regarding distribution or dates ?


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Boosted 01 R said:


> Saw a picture of the S3 at Geneva 2013..... any new info regarding distribution or dates ?


The 3-door S3 was pre-announced in Paris last September but its on-sale date has been delayed several times now. At this point it is not scheduled to reach dealerships until May-June. The S3 Sportback isn't due at dealerships until late summer (August).

This is for European delivery only. None of the MQB A3 hatches have been confirmed for US sale. As of now we're still only officially slated to receive the sedan, due for an announcement in New York and/or Shanghai in April with availability this fall.


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

Travis Grundke said:


> The 3-door S3 was pre-announced in Paris last September but its on-sale date has been delayed several times now. At this point it is not scheduled to reach dealerships until May-June. The S3 Sportback isn't due at dealerships until late summer (August).
> 
> This is for European delivery only. None of the MQB A3 hatches have been confirmed for US sale. As of now we're still only officially slated to receive the sedan, due for an announcement in New York and/or Shanghai in April with availability this fall.


Ah ok, guess we'll keep playing the waiting game


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## fjork_duf (Jul 13, 2001)

FYI: I sent a direct message to @Audi via twitter letting audi know of my love for the S3 sportback. I also forwarded this thread as well as proof that there is a large amount of interest.

My message:

"Audi rocks. I love my TT-RS. Although I love wagons too. I would give my right leg to see the S3 sportback (or RS3 sportback) in the USA."

Response:

"We appreciate your interest in glad you're enjoying your TTRS! we will forward your recommendations internally for review. Thanks again"

Anyone who is interested in this car, please join twitter and send something @Audi about the car. Definitely mention you want the car in the USA and you're interested in buying!


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