# Rotors are shot with Hawk HPS in less than 1 year? Need new rotors and brakes.



## SledGe08Dubber (Jul 28, 2005)

My car now vibrates when I brake moderately. It's fine when I brake hard or very light, just not when I brake like normal. The rotors seem to have deep grooves in most of the rotors. I had the Hawk HPS on for less than 1 year and I thought the shop turned the rotors, so this irks me a bit.
Anyways, I am looking for a cheaper alternative to Hawk HPS brakes, but am also looking for a good set of rotors for all 4 axles. I prefer rotors that might handle Hawk HPS well if I should go back with that. 
I would also like to change out my brake lines to SS brake lines since my car is an early 2001 model (August 2000).
By the way, my rear O2 sensor has to be changed at the same time, so I'm really breaking the bank on these repairs....
Does anyone know of a good, cheap place where I can replace all of this?

update:
One final thing. I need to flush out my brake fluid since it has been 4-5 years since the last flush... (my bad)
I would like to get some of the Blue. How many liters will I need to completely flush my brake system and the ABS component?
Thanks in advance!


_Modified by SledGe08Dubber at 3:56 PM 8-7-2009_


----------



## Golf_kris (Dec 2, 2001)

*Re: Rotors are shot with Hawk HPS in less than 1 year? Need new rotors and brakes. (SledGe08Dubber)*

I have the Hawk HPS on a set of stock-size plain Brembo rotors- both of which I got from ECS and put on at the same time. I had some intermittent squeal issues but lately they've been squeal free. I'm guessing either the shop didn't turn your rotors that well or maybe you didn't bed the Hawks in properly. Everything I've read says don't go w/ cross-drilled rotors unless you really like the look of them. Slotted are supposed to be OK. I had my SS lines and brake fluid flushed by Pep Boys last February...they did a good job and the SS lines look awesome!


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

try MJM autohaus, also in TX.
Alternatives to Hawk HPS?
Pagid. Better cold bite. Dusts a ton more.
Mintex. Little dust. HOrrible in bite cold & hot.
.
.
.
there's a good thread on brake pads also

_Quote, originally posted by *Golf_kris* »_I have the Hawk HPS on a set of stock-size plain Brembo rotors- both of which I got from ECS and put on at the same time. I had some intermittent squeal issues but lately they've been squeal free. I'm guessing either the shop didn't turn your rotors that well or maybe you didn't bed the Hawks in properly. Everything I've read says don't go w/ cross-drilled rotors unless you really like the look of them. Slotted are supposed to be OK. I had my SS lines and brake fluid flushed by Pep Boys last February...they did a good job and the SS lines look awesome!

not supposed to turn & reuse rotors. They are disposable. You should buy new rotors (they are cheap enough)


----------



## SledGe08Dubber (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (GT17V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Golf_kris* »_
I have the Hawk HPS on a set of stock-size plain Brembo rotors- both of which I got from ECS and put on at the same time. I had some intermittent squeal issues but lately they've been squeal free. I'm guessing either the shop didn't turn your rotors that well or maybe you didn't bed the Hawks in properly. Everything I've read says don't go w/ cross-drilled rotors unless you really like the look of them. Slotted are supposed to be OK. I had my SS lines and brake fluid flushed by Pep Boys last February...they did a good job and the SS lines look awesome!


Thanks for the response. I must not have bedded them in well then. I will try the bed-in based on these instructions this time.
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp http://zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_
try MJM autohaus, also in TX.
Alternatives to Hawk HPS?
Pagid. Better cold bite. Dusts a ton more.
Mintex. Little dust. HOrrible in bite cold & hot.
.
.
.
there's a good thread on brake pads also
not supposed to turn & reuse rotors. They are disposable. You should buy new rotors (they are cheap enough)


My current (bad) rotors still have plenty of life. I also used to turn my rotors all the time when changing brake pads on my old '96 Camry. I used to buy my Raybestos brakes from Pepboys brakes for $70 back then... 
Well, I've just visited the website for MJMAutohaus. Their prices are almost competitive with other sites. Being out of Texas, I'm sure the parts will arrive faster.
My SS brake line choices are Neuspeed with free shipping and AutoTech for $5 less, but no free shipping.
I will probably get the Brembo blanks with the Hawk HPS again even though they are $80 more than the Mintex. I do enjoy keeping up with some of these Bimmers.


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (SledGe08Dubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SledGe08Dubber* »_
My current (bad) rotors still have plenty of life. I also used to turn my rotors all the time when changing brake pads on my old '96 Camry. I used to buy my Raybestos brakes from Pepboys brakes for $70 back then... 


Did you measure the thickness?
Just because you can turn rotors on your old Camry (I used to be able to do it on my old 88 Camry).... it doesn't automatically mean you can turn them on newer cars.
For the front rotors, the difference between a new rotor & one that needs replacement is 3mm of total wear!!! That is not a lot of room for wear.
All rotors warp to a certain extent (where it is not noticeable). Turning the rotors basically knocks off the high points of the rotor surface, so you have rotor thicknesses of varying degrees, which contributes to more noticeable warping. Turning the rotors, consequently, eats into your allowable wear. More than likely, after you turned the rotors, you already pushed the rotors well into out of service specifcation.


----------



## SledGe08Dubber (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (GT17V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_
Did you measure the thickness?
Just because you can turn rotors on your old Camry (I used to be able to do it on my old 88 Camry).... it doesn't automatically mean you can turn them on newer cars.


I turned them until the shop said "no more!". :-/
I was a cheap college student and still have a hard time getting away from that.
Anyways, I have just placed my order with MJM Autohaus for the Neuspeed SS brake lines, Brembo front and rear blank rotors, Hawk HPS brakes (feel terrible for throwing away my 1 year old HPS brakes, anyone want to purchase these once I change them out this weekend?), and 2 liters of Blue brake fluid.
Hopefully, a good bed-in will get my brakes to last 5 years.


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

do you have plenty of life on the Hawk pads?
I believe Hawk recommends you bed new rotors with existing hawk pads or the other way around (using their increasingly hard stopping method).


----------



## SledGe08Dubber (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (GT17V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_
do you have plenty of life on the Hawk pads?
I believe Hawk recommends you bed new rotors with existing hawk pads or the other way around (using their increasingly hard stopping method).



The Hawk pads still have plenty of life since they were changed in February of 2008. I will have to measure for exact thickness if needed.
Unfortunately, I did not follow the bed-in instructions specific to the Hawk pads. I will use this method this time around. Thanks for the reference!!
I also noticed that it is necessary to moderately sand the rotor with 130 grit sandpaper if it is being reused and if it was not turned. Something I didn't know before.... I learn something new every day.


_Modified by SledGe08Dubber at 12:18 PM 8-11-2009_


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

you can sand, in a circular motion to create a "cross-hatch" type of pattern.
Even on rotors that can be turned, you should do this step (often overlooked) to help bed the rotors to the pad


----------



## SledGe08Dubber (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (GT17V)*

Is this also recommened on new rotors?


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (SledGe08Dubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SledGe08Dubber* »_Is this also recommened on new rotors?

no. because it's already done.


----------



## 2000Jet1.8T (Mar 25, 2009)

To insure long like of new pads you should always change the rotors as well. They will match up perfectly and bed easily. Rotors are very inexpensive compared to years ago and worth it. Cutting rotors is a thing of the past and in my opinion not worth it.


----------



## SledGe08Dubber (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (2000Jet1.8T)*

If you consider $100 for a pair of rotors cheap... :-/
I don't know how much they used to cost, but I was thinking more towards $50 for a pair of rotors.
It's all good though. With my new brake pad and rotors, I think I'll be good for a long while. If I knew about this back in college, I may have saved from having to change my brake pads so often (every 2 years).


----------



## 2000Jet1.8T (Mar 25, 2009)

Back in the day rotors were made to be cut so they were thicker and would last possibly the life of your car. They were priced anywhere from $100 and up per rotor depending on the vehicle. These days most rotors are made to be used with one set of pads. You probably could get a second set out of them with resurfacing one time. You know you can get a set of front rotors for less than $100. Regardless, being that the MK4 front rotors wear very well and last $100 or less for front rotors every 3+ years in my opinion is cheap. Especially knowing that you are putting brand new ones on.


----------



## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: (SledGe08Dubber)*

Rotors have a very thin service thickness now. Meaning that the amount that can be shaved off in relation to the total thickness of the rotors is not that much.
On my Porsches, the wear thickness is 1.5mm on the rear and 2mm on the front. For many brake pads, that works out to one or two sets of pads before the rotors are too thin (even though they may appear to be thick) for further use.
I never turn rotors any more. When the pads are worn out, I measure the thickness of the rotors, if they are still thick enough to meet the manufacturer's minimum thickness, without grooves thicker than a fingernail, or cracks or raised areas, I go ahead and reuse them.
Rotors are not rotors. Rotors from Major Brand Name Manufacturers may be made the traditional way (cast virgin lump of high grade iron, add material to improve characteristics, and machine down to close tolerance). Cheap rotors are usually made in third world countries from recycled metal of questionable composition, barely machinced, and may not meet heat specifications, or even physical dimension specifications. Other inexpensive rotors are manufactured using MIM method (powdered metal, compressed and heated to form a solid). MIM is less expensive because parts are formed close to finish dimensions, minimizing machining (which costs money). Unfortunately if not done properly, you can end up with an off-balance, brittle, or crumbly product that wears poorly.
Most inexpensive brake rotors made other than in China are MIM. Raybestos (big name right?) low price product line is MIM manufactured (I have heard complaints about the quality, and I won't use them).
SO, pay attention to where the parts you are buying were actually manufactured. Ask about how they were made (careful, some European Parts houses have started sourcing the same junk Far East made parts that many of the large auto parts companies here in the US sell). You best bet for quality brake rotors would be US, Canadian, or European Manufacture (not just the name, check the origin of the product).
And yes, it is still possible to get quality, brake rotors for cheap (at least it used to). I was buying excellent quality Brazilian made 9.4" front rotors for my MKII for about $12 each from stopshopanddrive.com a few years ago. Don't know what the current price is now though...


----------



## SledGe08Dubber (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (germancarnut51)*

Thanks for the informative response. I've received my Brembro rotors which were made in Mexico. I hope the Brembo quality is still reflected in the craftsmanship from their Mexican plant. 
I have heard Zimmerman rotors are still manufactured in an American plant. Perhaps, I should live more frugal so that I can afford their rotors in the future. :-/


----------



## SledGe08Dubber (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (2000Jet1.8T)*

Thanks for your input! You opinion is well regarded.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

*Re: (SledGe08Dubber)*

I have an 04 vr6 gti. All 4 corners need new rotors/pads. I also want to get ss brake lines and blue brake fluid. 
So far ive heard brembo rotors and hawk hps pads are good to go.
Or are there beter combinations out there to buy? Keeping in mind a normal budget.
Also what are the best SS lines to buy and where same for the blue brake fluid.. Please advise!


----------



## SledGe08Dubber (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

My mechanic just installed my Brembo rotors, Hawk HPS brake pads, and Neuspeed SS brake lines today. After the Hawk Bed-in process, it is now running very nice. I will put on a few more miles this weekend and bed-in the brake pads one more time. My braking seemed spongy before the change and my clutch feels better even though my mechanic thinks that the master/slave cylinder may be getting old.... Braking is very responsive with good initial bite now; braking accuracy has also improved greatly during midrange braking.
I am not well versed in this field, but Brembo and Zimmerman seem to be the popular brand for rotors. My Brembos were made in Mexico; I have heard that Zimmermans are made in the US. MJM informs that Brembo blanks are fine for light autocrossing.
My mechanic runs Mintex Reds for brakes, but I chose Hawk HPS since I like canyon driving and might take my car to the road/autocross track once I change several more parts. I also wanted similar braking performance as my friend's '07 Acura TSX.
My mechanic isn't fond of "no-speed" products, but MJM Autohaus also sells AutoTech SS brake lines. I don't know if many differences can be found with SS brake lines. However, I was taken back that the Neuspeed SS brake lines were covered with a clear vinyl/plastic casing to shield the stainless steel from nature's elements.
Super Blue brake fluid seem to be the popular choice, but may not be allowed in some racing circuits(?). Its wet boiling point is pretty good - very important for good fluids - and the fluid itself is very thin. I used approximately 1.5 liters to bleed my brake lines twice. I did not have the instructions for 'abs pump' brake fluid cycle, but hope to do this later on.
In conclusion, I am not sure if the stainless steel lines improved my braking and clutch performance or if bleeding my brakes did. The last bleeding "should" have been performed 1.5 years ago when my timing belt, et al were changed during my 100k maintenance....
All in all, 1 set of brembo blank fronts, 1 set of brembo blank rears, 1 full set of hawk hps with super blue brake fluid (saved $5), 1 extra super blue, and 1 full set of neuspeed ss lines came out to be just under $499 without tax or shipping at MJM.
Hope this helps!


_Modified by SledGe08Dubber at 12:09 AM 8-16-2009_


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

Which would you guys recomend Zimmermans or Brembos rotors???


----------



## SledGe08Dubber (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

That's a good question. I think it's all personal preference at this point. Try asking MJM. I believe they have AIM to simplify communications.


----------

