# Retrofitting the OEM Fire Extinguisher to the Phaeton



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

In Europe, you can order a fire extinguisher as an option installed at the factory. This is quite an inexpensive option - about USD $100. The fire extinguisher is neatly concealed in a carpeted compartment at the back of the front passenger footwell, more or less underneath the front of the seat. There are pictures of the OEM installation at this thread: In-Cabin Fire Extinguisher.
I think it is a good idea, from a safety point of view, to have such an extinguisher, so, I ordered the parts needed to retrofit one from my Swiss VW dealer. I went to my dealership (AMAG in Kloten) today and picked them up. Below are the photos of the parts.
I have not yet ordered the extinguisher itself, because it might be tricky for me to transport this back to Canada from Europe. A pressurized fire extinguisher is considered 'dangerous goods' so far as air cargo is concerned, and this means I will have to make some further inquiries about whether or not I can bring it back as checked baggage. I might wind up needing to ship it by 'slow post' - in other words, surface mail that goes by ship.
I don't think installation of this will be very difficult. My guess is that I will need to cut a few small slits in the carpet, to accept the tangs that are visible at the front of the base. It is held in place by a few bolts, the bolts are VW standard parts that can be ordered in North America.
Michael
*Bottom side of Fire Extinguisher Holder base*








*Top side of fire extinguisher base, bottom side of cover*









*Top side of cover*
This matches my sun beige carpets. I will probably need to cut slits in the existing carpet to accept the tangs you see on the front of the base assembly.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting the OEM Fire Extinguisher to the Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

Here's the parts description. This same information, as well as pictures of what it looks like when installed, can be found on the thread mentioned in the first paragraph of the post above.
*Parts Illustration - Fire Extinguisher*


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

I have always carried a fire extinguisher in my car. But it is in the trunk stowage area and not particurarly convient. I'll have to check my dealer and see if I can order it here in the USA


----------



## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

I was at the VW dealership today and brought a printout of the ETKA parts list that Michael provided above. The parts adviser said that he could not locate any of the parts in his system that were indicated on Michael's printout, except for the tarp, which sold for $186.99.
I was planning on picking up the parts for the fire extinguisher and the warning triangle.
*Michael *- 
What country was the parts list sourced from?? (Normally, I wouldn't need to ask this question, but you are quite the globetrotter. I see above in this thread that you ordered the extinguisher parts from a Swiss VW dealer.)
Did you obtain the warning triangle parts in Canada? 
Do you have any idea for sourcing the parts in the U.S.??
Thanks Michael - I hope all is going well in Africa.
Douglas


_Modified by copernicus0001 at 12:42 AM 7-28-2005_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (copernicus0001)*

Hi Douglas:
I bought all the parts I needed for the triangle retrofit in Canada. The thread describing the parts needed and the installation process for the triangle is here: OEM Warning Triangle in Trunk Lid Retrofit.
There is a post describing the 'tarp' that you mentioned, including pictures of this part. It is a neat little thing that flops out over the rear bumper, to prevent scuffs and damage to the rear bumper when you are loading heavy objects (boxes, luggage) in the trunk. That thread is here: Protective Cover for Rear Bumper. Although that tarp is surprisingly expensive for what it is, it's cheap insurance against the cost of having to refinish a scuffed up rear bumper.
I tried to order fire extinguisher parts in Canada, but no luck on any of them, so I ordered them from my Swiss dealer. 
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 4:26 AM 10-3-2005_


----------



## fly4food (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I have asked Peter to see if he can get the fire extinguisher. If not, I sure would like to be on the list as well.
Philippe


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (copernicus0001)*

Hi Everyone:
I did a little editing (pruning) of this thread, because the discussion had veered off onto the topic of sourcing parts from a European VW dealer. We do have an arrangement now for sourcing parts from Europe, it is described here: European Parts Purchases. I hope no-one is offended that I pruned their posts from this topic - I just want to keep this post focused on the fire extinguisher retrofit.
Anyway - some retrofits are simple, and some retrofits wind up turning into a 'Pandora's Box' of parts purchases. It seems that the retrofits that appear at first glance to be the most complicated (e.g. Keyless Start) are usually the simplest ones, and the ones that you think should be super-simple - like this fire extinguisher project - turn out to be the ones that require a heck of a lot more parts than you ever thought possible. After I brought the initial tranche of Swiss parts home last month, I found out that the fire extinguisher holder - shown in the photo above - actually recesses quite deeply into the floor of the passenger footwell. This doesn't present a structural problem - I know there is a recess in the metal floor pan to accept the extinguisher holder - but it does present an installation problem, because the complete carpet segment on the front passenger side does not have a recess in it to accept the extinguisher holder.
So - back to the Swiss dealer for more parts. I have decided not to order a complete new carpet insert with a recess for the extinguisher holder (item 2 in the illustration below) for the front passenger area of the car because I really don't want to go to the trouble of removing the entire 250 pound front passenger seat from the car to install the new carpet liner - not to mention that I bet that carpet insert would be expensive. I think I'll just cut a hole in the existing carpet. Because the fire extinguisher holder is a permanent installation - bolted to the floor pan of the car - I am not too concerned about cutting a hole in the carpet insert. In fact, I bet that's the only difference between the carpet insert that I have, and the carpet insert for cars with a fire extinguisher - VW cuts a hole in the insert for you.
However - the floormat for the front passenger side (by floormat, I mean the removable bit of carpet that is held in place by two fasteners, not the actual 'base' carpet insert that is affixed to the car) is shorter on Phaetons that have a fire extinguisher, because the fire extinguisher holder takes up about 6 inches of space from the passenger seat forward. This means there is no way to escape the need to buy a new front passenger floormat that is shorter - so, I ordered one from my Swiss dealer. I will have to figure out a way to re-locate the two retaining clips on the base carpet so that they are about 6 inches further forward, to match the retaining clip holes on the new, shorter removable floormat.
Below is a parts illustration, and one of the four pages of the expanded text. The removable floormat is part number 21, you can see this at the very bottom of the diagram. It seems that there are about 6 different variations in part number suffix for the removable floormat, they work like this:
*Phaetons without a fire extinguisher*
Suffix *B* - normal floormat for cars built between May 02 and July 03.
Suffix *D* - normal floormat for cars built between Aug 03 and Jan 04.
Suffix *F* - normal floormat for cars built since February 04.
*Phaetons with a factory installed fire extinguisher*
Suffix *A* - shorter floormat for cars built between May 02 and July 03.
Suffix *C* - shorter floormat for cars built between Aug 03 and Jan 04.
Suffix *E* - shorter floormat for cars built since February 04.
I have ordered a suffix *C* floormat for my car - will post pictures of it when it arrives. It cost about USD $50, which is not too bad - in fact, a lot less than I expected.
Michael
*Carpet Related Parts*








*'Fussmatte für fahrzeuge mit Feuerloescher' means 'Floormat for car with fire extinguisher'*


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I picked up the shorter floormat that is required when the fire extinguisher holder is installed. It was fairly straightforward to order this from my Swiss dealer, however, I don't know if this part will be available from the North American VW dealers or not. Below is a picture of the shorter floor mat, overlaid on the normal North American floormat, and also a picture of the label from the back of the shorter floormat.
Michael
*Shorter front passenger Floormat for vehicles with a fire extinguisher installed*


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I will have to figure out a way to re-locate the two retaining clips on the base carpet so that they are about 6 inches further forward, to match the retaining clip holes on the new, shorter removable floormat.

I believe they simply screw into the carpet itself. If not, you should be able to ascertain their method of fastening by feeling around under the carpet once you have the hole cut.


----------



## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

Michael,
Did you ever complete the fire extinguisher retrofit?? Were you able to get the fire extinguisher to Canada?? Or were you able to get an OEM part number (the fire extinguisher is made by Kiddie, but I do not know what part number - I thought I could call Kiddie and source the extinguisher directly from them).
Douglas


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

I found a beauty of an All chrome extinguisher with a guage and a black bracket. Mouted it in the same place as the Phaeton unit. Fits perfectly not ever noticed as the seat is moved forward a bit. Checker Auto. $50 lot better than $500 
Don


_Modified by GripperDon at 6:22 PM 11-11-2005_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (copernicus0001)*

Hi Douglas:
You are really going to get a laugh from this. I was shopping in Migros here in Switzerland yesterday (Migros is the Swiss equivalent of Wal-Mart), and found the *EXACT *same fire extinguisher as the OEM Phaeton one on sale for CHF 39, which is about USD $30. So, that solves the extinguisher problem. Now all I have to do is figure out how to transport it back to Canada. A pressurized fire extinguisher is considered 'Dangerous Goods' by international airline regulations. I know I could ship it cargo, no problem, I just need to find out if the airline will accept it as either checked or carry-on baggage.
Michael


----------



## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

When you get a chance, let me know the model number - I will see if I can get one from Kiddie in North America. That would make the remainder of the retrofit fairly straight forward - just the logistics of acquiring parts from Europe.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (copernicus0001)*

I had a chance to look at the OEM extinguisher in more detail over the weekend - here are some pictures of it:
*OEM Extinguisher*


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting the OEM Fire Extinguisher to the Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

OK boys and girls, it's time to get this forum re-focused on our main fun activity, which is refitting goodies to our Phaetons. I'm getting bored with all this yada-yada about VW of America no longer importing Phaetons. As far as I'm concerned, VW of America can do what they want, because *we're* still going to import stuff to retrofit. Right? Right! I knew you felt that way too.
Now, about the topic at hand, which is retrofitting a fire extinguisher, I thought it might be a good idea to get some wise advice from some folks who have experience in this matter, so, I went to Dresden, and asked to be allowed to observe how the fire extinguisher is installed in the first place. All the staff at Dresden - reception, managers, and the craftspeople who build the car - are always delighted to have owners visit, so, they gave me a white coat, and we headed off to watch a Phaeton being assembled. We were lucky, the first car we came to was scheduled to have a fire extinguisher installed in it. Here's the story in pictures.
*Step One: Remove the front passenger seat and the front footwell carpet.*
*Hint:* _The job is easier if the front passenger seat and front footwell carpet has not yet been installed.
But, if your Phaeton has already been fully assembled for you by someone else, just visit the_ Keyless Start _thread for seat and carpet removal instructions._








*Obtain two each of the following parts from your local VW dealer*








*Install the bolt retaining sleeves (German: bn. mutter) in the holes that exist in the front seat support beam.*








*Turn the carpet upside down, and carefully cut a rectangular hole to accommodate the fire extinguisher holder.*
Remember the sage advice of the retired carpenter: "Measure twice, and cut once."








*Put the holder (shown above in an earlier post) in the hole, then re-install the carpet.*








*Install the two bolts in the appropriate holes, and, voila, you are done!*
(Uh, except for the minor details involved in re-assembling everything else, that is.)


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Shipping parts home*

Michael,
Ship the extinguisher home with your other set of rims? Surely, as parts, it's easier to do?
BTW, I'm totally jealous that you get to wear a white coat and watch Phaetons (the other Bentley) being built. The only white coats I see these days ask me about my co-pays and deductibles.
~PC


_Modified by PhaetonChix at 4:40 PM 11-19-2005_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Shipping parts home (PhaetonChix)*

Hi PC:
The problem with the fire extinguisher is that once the thing is pressurized, it becomes 'dangerous goods' so far as ICAO and IATA are concerned. It is difficult - though not impossible - to carry DGs as checked or carry on baggage on aircraft. Even tires and rims (when assembled) are considered DGs, although some argument could be made that if the valve was removed to ensure that there was never a pressure differential, they would no longer be DGs.
I have to be especially careful about this kind of stuff, because I am approved to teach courses to airline staff and crews about - you guessed it - proper handling of DGs. So, if I violate a rule, I will be really up the creek.
The most troublesome part of this fire extinguisher retrofit has been figuring out how to get the darn extinguisher to North America. The actual mechanical work is easy.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Shipping parts home (PanEuropean)*

Sometimes, the funniest things happen in the middle of these modifications. I was at my local VW dealer (here in Canada) yesterday, and the parts manager asked me what I was currently working on. I told him I had not made any progress on the fire extinguisher retrofit lately, because I haven't figured out a way to get the extinguisher back to Canada. He asked me what the part number was, and I gave it to him.
This morning, at about 10 AM, I got an email from my VW dealer - "Your fire extinguisher has arrived". I could not believe it, but sure enough, Blaine had found an extinguisher in North America, and he had it for me. I mean, the part number is not even listed in the ETKA parts catalog, but Blaine got me the part overnight just as easy as if it was an oil filter.
So, now I have everything I need to proceed - I plan to install this tomorrow.
*I finally found the extinguisher - at my local VW dealer!*


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Shipping parts home (PanEuropean)*

I finally got this retrofit finished today. It was time-consuming and troublesome, certainly more effort than installing a start button.
Before you begin, make sure you have all the required supplies. In particular, make sure that you have the two bolts P/N *N 908 085 01* and two nuts P/N *N100 355 01*. The nuts are not listed in the North American parts catalog. You can go ahead and install the fire extinguisher holder if you don’t have the extinguisher, but you can’t install it if you don’t have these two pieces of hardware.
Begin by removing the four bolts that attach the passenger seat to the floor of the Phaeton. The process is the same as that for removing the driver seat, this is well documented at the thread that describes how to refit a start button: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons. Note that the four bolts that hold the passenger seat in place cannot be re-used, you need to order (ahead of time) four new bolts to use when you re-install the seat. The part number for these bolts is *N 909 650 02*.
*Seat Retaining Bolts – you will need 4*








Once you have the passenger seat loose, you can carefully tilt it backwards to allow you to disconnect the electrical connections from the underside of the seat. You really need to have a helper here, because you first have to tilt the seat so that the front edge is about 4 inches above the floor, then disconnect a little clip that keeps the wiring harness out of harm’s way. Then you can tilt the seat back to the position shown in the photo below. The seat is heavy, and won’t stay in that position unless someone is in the back of the car holding it.
*Seat tilted back, after releasing cable retaining clip*









Once you have disconnected the electrical connections, you can push the whole seat assembly into the rear passenger footwell to get it out of the way. Don’t try to remove it from the car – it is too heavy to lift, and if you want to remove it from the car, you have to cut a plastic cover to enable you to disconnect the shoulder belt from the upper guide on the B pillar.
*Wiring harness unplugged*









Next you begin removing trim pieces that surround the front passenger carpet, to allow you to later remove the carpet. Pull the carpet away from the front of the passenger footwell – it is not attached with anything, you just grab it at the very top and pull it straight back. Then pull the carpet away from the front outboard area – behind the front right wheelwell – to get access to a single 10 mm plastic nut that holds the door sill trim in place. Remove this nut.
*Remove this nut*









Once that nut has been removed, you can lift the door sill trim piece away from the door sill aperture. It is held in place with spring clips. There are additional photos illustrating this process at the Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons thread. Then remove a circular cap that covers the bolt shown in the illustration below, and remove this bolt. There is another similar bolt at the front end of this trim piece – you will see it if you look up at the forward inboard corner of the passenger footwell. Remove this second bolt, then remove this whole trim piece. Again, see the start button thread for illustrations showing how to take this trim piece off.
* Preparing to remove the inboard trim piece*









Once the two trim pieces have been removed (door sill, and upper inboard), remove the black bezel that surrounds the rear footwell air outlet. This pulls straight off. Then remove the carpet from the passenger footwell. To remove the carpet, fold the front parts backward, as you can see above, then lift the FRONT part of the carpet up, as if the carpet was hinged to the floor at the back edge. You kind of squeeze the front part up past the glove compartment. Once you have done this, you can carefully thread the electrical cable out through the hole in the carpet. Do not put any strain on the connectors when you are doing this.
*Footwell after carpet has been removed*


















The challenge now is to cut a hole in the carpet to accept the fire extinguisher holder base. This is easier said than done. Rather than go through it step by step, I’ll just draw to your attention these thoughts:
*a)* Measure three times and then cut once – that carpet piece is darned expensive. I used a tire crayon to draw guidelines.
*b)* The outboard edge of the base needs to be against the outboard edge of the depression in the carpet. In other words, don’t try to center the thing, instead, gently push the black base until it touches the outboard edge of the carpet, and use that as your reference point.
*c)* The front to back length of the hole (measured in a straight line, from front to back) will be about 11 cm, as shown in the photos below.
*d)* After you remove the two floormat retaining posts, you will be left with two holes in the carpet – these work well as a guideline for making the forwardmost cut.
*e)* The multiple pins (forks) that stick out the front of the black plastic base go underneath the carpet, but the top edge (visible edge) of the base goes on top of the carpet.
*It takes a while to cut the hole and fine-tune everything*




































I found that if I test-fitted the base of the fire extinguisher compartment into the passenger footwell after I took the carpet out, this gave me a pretty good idea of how the base would need to line up with the hole in the carpet that the seat retaining bolts go through. Note that the screwdriver is holding the base in the position it will be in once the two bolts are installed.
*Test-fitting the base, to get an idea of left/right positioning*









Once all that work is done, and the base is installed in the carpet, you just re-assemble everything. Have a look at the pictures that I took at the Transparent Factory in Dresden (above) for details showing how to insert the nuts in the floor of the Phaeton, and then insert the two bolts to hold the base in place.
When re-installing the carpet in the car, fit it in from the back first. In other words, first pull the electrical cable up the hole, then fit the aft edge of the carpet under the front edge of the rear footwell carpet, then pivot the whole carpet down from the back edge. This is really the only way to do it.
*Part way through the re-assembly process*


















The two posts that were in the carpet liner for the purpose of retaining the removable floormats cannot be re-installed. Instead, order two beige colour retaining posts for a 2006 Jetta, and install these instead. The Jetta posts have a screw-in base, the OEM Phaeton ones were plastic-welded and cannot be repositioned. You can see from the photo below why a different, shorter passenger footwell floormat is required.









Lastly – if you have a gummi rubber winter floormat, you will need to cut a strip off the bottom to allow for the fire extinguisher. I cut the strip off so that the gummi mat was about 3 mm overlength, and I tucked the extra under the lip of the fire extinguisher base for a cleaner look.









Once you are all done, just hope and pray that you don’t need to use the extinguisher, because it is very difficult to get a replacement extinguisher from VW in North America.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Shipping parts home (PanEuropean)*

Photos re-hosted


----------



## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

I have fire extinguisher in my Phaeton and it is the cleanest, most invisible fire extinguisher I have ever seen. Check on left side…. There is an empty place perhaps you can store something special.


----------



## TXRanger83 (Nov 8, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting the OEM Fire Extinguisher to the Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

Can the OEM one be refilled or recharged?


----------



## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting the OEM Fire Extinguisher to the Phaeton (TXRanger83)*

Funny, this morning I was thinking about canceling the comprehensive portion of my insurance (the Ph is not worth as much these days as it once was), and buying an extinguisher just in case.
I like the mod, but it seems to involve quite a bit of work!


----------



## faterikcartman (Dec 22, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting the OEM Fire Extinguisher to the Phaeton (Itzmann)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Itzmann* »_Funny, this morning I was thinking about canceling the comprehensive portion of my insurance (the Ph is not worth as much these days as it once was)...

I don't owe a cent on any car I own and would love a discussion on this board about when it makes sense to cancel comprehensive and/or collision insurance.


----------



## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: Retrofitting the OEM Fire Extinguisher to the Phaeton (faterikcartman)*

I don’t owe a cent on any of my vehicles either, yet I still carry comprehensive. It’s really just a matter of risk versus costs. Many will have varying opinions. 
I would suggest if you are really interested in a discussion on this topic to please start it on a separate thread.
Thanks,


----------



## TXRanger83 (Nov 8, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting the OEM Fire Extinguisher to the Phaeton (TXRanger83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TXRanger83* »_Can the OEM one be refilled or recharged?

bump for this question


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting the OEM Fire Extinguisher to the Phaeton (TXRanger83)*

Yes, I believe so. But it is probably cheaper to buy a new one *IN EUROPE.* They cost about $50 in Europe. They are much more expensive here in North America because the fire extinguisher is considered 'hazardous material' for shipping.
Michael


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting the OEM Fire Extinguisher to the Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

It may also be worth noting the expert's advice about the size of the extinguisher: one kilogram is not enough for much else than putting out a cigarette. Certainly better than nothing but don't even dream about putting out a fire in the engine bay with it. I have had a 3 kilo extinguisher in my trunk for years. I know it is not big enough for a serious fire, either, and that it takes time to grab it from the trunk...
Jouko


----------



## TXRanger83 (Nov 8, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting the OEM Fire Extinguisher to the Phaeton (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Yes, I believe so. But it is probably cheaper to buy a new one *IN EUROPE.* They cost about $50 in Europe. They are much more expensive here in North America because the fire extinguisher is considered 'hazardous material' for shipping.
Michael

yeah because the price i have is about 300 with shipping for the OEM one, but if you can buy the same thing there for so much cheaper, when I go this fall I might just pick it up then...i know reading some of your previous posts on here you talked about checking to see if you were gonna be able to carry this or check this item when you fly, were you able to get a final ruling on this?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting the OEM Fire Extinguisher to the Phaeton (TXRanger83)*

Such an item cannot be checked as baggage. It MAY be possible to bring it on board as hand baggage, but that depends very much on the policies of the air carrier. Best if you contacted the air carrier (in writing) well ahead of time and asked for a ruling.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted.

Michael


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi,
Since I purchased my Phaeton, I have been thinking that retrofiting a fire extinguisher was a useful and neat project. However, the fact that the seat and the floormat had to be removed worried me a bit. Anyway, I decided to take the bull by the horns and ordered all the parts but the fire extinguisher that I already had.
My approach was a tad different as I decided not to remove neither the seat or the floormat. Following Michael's advice I first outlined the holder on the floormat, then cut just the upper carpet portion and removed it so that the actual foam padding became visible. Next I cut the padding, pulled it out and made three recesses so that the front edge of the holder would fit correctly.










Then, some trimming was necessary in order to adapt the shape of the hole to the holder and the captive nuts were inserted into their receptacles.










Thereafter, a small incision had to be done by the rear left corner of the hole so that it could accomodate a hook located on the rear side of the holder.










Next, I inserted the fire extinguisher holder into its opening making sure that the front catches grasped onto the carpet and padding and that the rear hook fit into the incision previously made. At that point it was a just matter of bolting down the holder and fitting the fire extinguisher.










And finally covering it with the lid.



The rubber floormat had to be trimmed too.

[URL="http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/Gabs08Phtn/media/DSCN8249%20Large_zpsgkmw5udf.jpg.html"]

These are the leftovers.



Sumarizing, it is a project that is not difficult to tackle and that would allow any Phaeton owner to carry a small fire extinguisher handy without affecting the passenger comfort.

Gabriel


----------



## dasantas (Mar 18, 2016)

Hello

is it possible to rehaust the picture on firtst page ?.

For fire extinguisher you have this on box : 3D0 860 282 A : First aid medical kit.


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

dasantas said:


> Hello
> 
> is it possible to rehaust the picture on firtst page ?.
> 
> For fire extinguisher you have this on box : 3D0 860 282 A : First aid medical kit.


This is what Michael shows for the part number in post # 18

3D0860277

I didn't see it in any U.S. VW online parts stores, but found it via a Bing search at this website. It's very expensive.:

https://www.oemvwshop.com/3D0860277-fire-extinguishers-p381682/

That just confirms the part number. You are going to have to find it in the U.S. or Canada if that's where you live. Read Michael's problems about trying to import one.


----------



## dasantas (Mar 18, 2016)

Thanks for pictures on this page but 1st page ?


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Dsantas/Moderators,
I have some of the original pictures of this thread.
If you wish, send me an e-mail adress so that I can forward them to you.

Gabriel


----------



## dasantas (Mar 18, 2016)

I want !!!

Thanks Gabriel.


----------



## dasantas (Mar 18, 2016)

Thanks for pictures


----------



## dasantas (Mar 18, 2016)

Hello

Somebody send me the pictures on page 2 please ?.

Many thanks.


----------



## TheWhale (May 22, 2017)

I'd bought all the parts (extinguisher, storage box, cover, bolts and bolt retaining sleeves) a while back and was finally getting round to the job the other day when I realised that being assymetrical (and having a part number beginning with 3D1, hence LHD) it wasn't going to fit under the front passenger seat in an RHD Phaeton.

I can't quite believe that I didn't think of this, well, right at the start of looking into it, let alone after I shelled out and was about to start work. At least I'd not yet cut the carpet...

I can't find any 3D2 equivalent part numbers so it looks like it's the part I have or nothing. I presume the Phaeton's floorpan is the same for LHD and RHD cars (and that it's just the various mechanicals that differ)? If so I can presumably fit it under the RHD driver seat, where an LHD front seat passenger would be, but I wanted to be sure of the above before I go chopping up carpet so any assurances (or to the contrary) would be gratefully received...

John

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

TheWhale said:


> I'd bought all the parts (extinguisher, storage box, cover, bolts and bolt retaining sleeves) a while back and was finally getting round to the job the other day when I realised that being assymetrical (and having a part number beginning with 3D1, hence LHD) it wasn't going to fit under the front passenger seat in an RHD Phaeton.
> 
> I can't quite believe that I didn't think of this, well, right at the start of looking into it, let alone after I shelled out and was about to start work. At least I'd not yet cut the carpet...
> 
> ...


John, it looks like the floor is the same. I don't see anything about LHD or RHD:

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/phaeton/phae/2006-258/8/803-803030/#24

As far as the fire extinguisher box, It looks like you are right and there is only one version. RHD Phaetons must have them under the driver's seat:

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/phaeton/phae/2006-258/8/860-860000/#15

If I did this mod, I would take the carpet all the way out which would mean removing the right front seat completely. Then I would see if there was any wiring in the vicinity. I'd test fit everything before cutting the carpet. 

Good luck. If you decide not to use it, somebody here would probably buy the kit depending on the cover colour. 

-Eric


----------



## TheWhale (May 22, 2017)

Thanks very much Eric  Great idea - I never thought of looking at the parts lists for the floor parts. I wonder what the labour for 'fitting' those works out at!

I'll be giving it another shot at the end of the month and will update on how I get on. It tends to just get driven once every two or three weeks (aside from the odd short urban trip if it's raining when I leave for work, but sometimes we don't even get those) so I'm neurotic about doing anything to wake it up during those periods in case it drains the battery to a problematic level. I have a 34 mile round trip around then so will work on it in between the outbound and return journey.

Thanks again,
John

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheWhale (May 22, 2017)

So that’s the fire extinguisher box installed now 

As I didn't have a helper with me I wanted to follow Gabriel’s process and leave the seat in situ. Because my installation was in front of the driver’s seat instead of the passenger's I wasn’t certain there were no wires unique to the driver’s side before I started, and as you mentioned Eric. I therefore went very cannily, cutting a small slit in the top layer of carpet and then feeling around for wires between it and the lower level of insulation with my finger before enlarging the cut. I then did likewise when cutting the insulation. I can confirm the driver-side area (at least on my spec) was just as clear of wires as Gabriel’s passenger side.










It went in easy enough.










The only issue is that the handle on my Kidde KSP1GM fire extinguisher appears to stick out a bit too far for the cover to fully close. Including the handle the extinguisher measures 12cm front to back.










How does the VW extinguisher compare in size? It's mighty expensive but the measurements would help me source an equivalent size of extinguisher knowing that it would fit properly. Or is it not intended to fully close?

John


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

TheWhale said:


> How does the VW extinguisher compare in size? It's mighty expensive but the measurements would help me source an equivalent size of extinguisher knowing that it would fit properly. Or is it not intended to fully close?
> 
> John


Hi John,

Does the lid close fully without the fire extinguisher inside?

I looked up the original part number 3D0860277 on the US VW online parts site which says it's NLA:

https://parts.vw.com/p/Volkswagen__/68867403/3D0860277.html

No luck on eBay or the other pars sites I checked. It's probably listed as NLA in North America but should be available ROW since it's listed as fitting from 2002 - 2016 Phaetons. 

7zao says it's used on plenty of other cars:

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/part/3d0860277/

You may be able to find it for less money at another dealer or find a used one and get it recharged. 

I would have liked to do this mod also and it was on the to do list - eventually. 

Good luck.

-Eric


----------



## TheWhale (May 22, 2017)

Hi Eric,

Thanks very much for taking the time with those searches 

Ummm, I hadn't actually tried closing it without the extinguisher in place and in fact it doesn't fully close that way either, though it's closer. I should have tried that first and saved asking, and then having you search.

It looks as though the handle of Gabriel's Gloria extinguisher might be in the way of the lid a little as well, though the body of it does at least fit under the strap, unlike mine. I looked up Gloria fire extinguishers and their current 1kg extinguisher looks a little different now but it does seem a good bit more compact than my Kidde going by the measurements.










The hinges on the top aren't catching either so all in all my installation isn't a total success. But in the end I have a extinguisher to hand and the cover, as much as it sits, keeps everything looking tidy.

John


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

TheWhale said:


> Hi Eric,
> 
> Thanks very much for taking the time with those searches
> 
> ...



You're welcome John. Did you play with the box before installation to see if it latched closed?

I have a few thoughts. You may not want to fully close the lid until it's all sorted out. Keep that in mind before doing anything I suggest below.

I am just going by the pictures online. I don't have detailed up close pictures and don't have one in front of me. 

Again, don't do anything until you investigate further. 


These are my thoughts based on the pictures:

I can't really tell from the pictures how the hinges fit into their slots. It looks like they just kind of hold the back side down rather than act as hinges. From the first thread, it looks like the lid just comes off:

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1635303

Can you feel the front latches starting to latch?

Perhaps if you press down a bit, you can get them to latch fully.

You don't want the fire extinguisher (or even the lid) flying around the cabin in a minor accident. 

That kind of defeats the "safety" aspect of it. Better to keep it all in the glove box or boot until you sort out the lid and the strap.


The front latches look like the same kind of latches or clips that are used to grab onto the tabs on trim. I am just going by the pictures which aren't close up.

The tabs on the lid also look like the tabs on trim, i.e. tabs that aren't really supposed to be removed on a regular basis. You press or push hard on the trim and leave it alone for the most part. 

The "avionics shelf" in the back has plastic tabs molded into the shelf itself that fit into clips in the sheet metal. Those tabs on 7579 are pretty chewed up and some are bent over. There are enough left that aren't completely ruined that the shelf will stay up long enough for me to remove or replace the screws. 

The lower A pillar / threshold trim has a few tabs like that also. Most of the trim clips on that part are removable but it does have at least one of those sacrificial tabs on each side. There are enough other fasteners to secure that trim if the tabs get destroyed. 


If you can take the box back out maybe try to remove one of the front latches to see if it has teeth to grab the tab on the cover. If it does have teeth, I would suspect that it's only supposed to open if you force it open in a emergency and they don't care if the clips or latches at the front tear up the tabs. Maybe that's why the lid is listed separately from the rest of the box on the parts diagram. Maybe the lid is considered a part you use once then replace (like the contents of the First Aid Kit).


Fun fact - the parts guy at my dealer told me if I bought a First Aid Kit, I couldn't return it. Not even if I just took it out to my Phaeton in their parking lot to see if it fits with him following me. The parts guy said it was a health issue or something. 


-Eric


----------



## TheWhale (May 22, 2017)

Hi Eric,

Many thanks again 



53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> If you can take the box back out maybe try to remove one of the front latches to see if it has teeth to grab the tab on the cover. If it does have teeth, I would suspect that it's only supposed to open if you force it open in a emergency and they don't care if the clips or latches at the front tear up the tabs. Maybe that's why the lid is listed separately from the rest of the box on the parts diagram. Maybe the lid is considered a part you use once then replace (like the contents of the First Aid Kit).
> 
> -Eric


You're absolutely right. I could see your logic with the cover being a separate part indicating the tabs potentially being sacrificial. I removed the box again and investigated its slots. Right enough the front ones have what seems to be teeth.










And yes, here are the lid's front tabs in greater detail.










Whilst right enough the rear tabs are not suited as hinges.



53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> You may not want to fully close the lid until it's all sorted out. Keep that in mind before doing anything I suggest below.
> 
> -Eric


I went as close as I dared with closing the lid on the box when out and it looked like it would were I to push it the final cm. The box was a little short front to back at first but I figured this was from being tightly squeezed into a slightly smaller space in the floor; when I stretched it out a little the lid was ready to fit.

While the box was out I took the chance to reinsert the captive nuts, this time with a little superglue around their inside lips to stop them spinning when the bolts are screwed in. Gloves were a must for reinserting with glue near the lip of course, and they proved their worth.

The space was widened ever so slightly to make the box a little less squashed.

So I just need to track down an original extinguisher or one with equivalent measurements and I'll be ready to finally 'shut the lid' on this retrofit.

As an aside I'd forgotten just how beautiful the Navy Blue interiors are, certainly in the flashlight of those factory installation photos in Michael's earlier thread you linked to. Certainly my joint favourite standard interior colour tied with, umm, two others...

Thanks so much again Eric 

John


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

You're welcome John.

Thanks for posting the pictures. 

You could probably open it a few times but each time would be a gamble to see if the tabs made it out OK. They do look pretty robust but I wouldn't chance it since you have to buy a whole new cover if the tabs get chewed up or one stays behind in its slot. 

You could take the clips out of the slots. You could get them out with a long nose pliers (some incorrectly call them "needle nose" pliers). If you did that, you could practice opening and closing the lid to your heart's desire. You might even be able to get them out by squeezing with a regular pliers or even your fingers. 

This is assuming the clips go in from the top:

You could even leave the clips out until after you reinstall the box. Make sure the cover closes over the extinguisher and everything fits great in situ. When everything fits perfectly, you can just pop the clips back in. 

-Eric


----------



## TheWhale (May 22, 2017)

Hi Eric,

Yes, I reinstalled the box, left the lid secured down in the boot, and think I'll wait until I have the right size of extinguisher before taking the lid out and fitting it. Good tip on clearing the slots though, should I open again after that and get a tab stuck there - saves ruining, or least compromising, a good box.

Thanks again for all your help. Best of luck if you get round to trying this retrofit yourself, though it doesn't seem to me as though you'll need any of that to make a success of it 

John


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

TheWhale said:


> Hi Eric,
> 
> Yes, I reinstalled the box, left the lid secured down in the boot, and think I'll wait until I have the right size of extinguisher before taking the lid out and fitting it. Good tip on clearing the slots though, should I open again after that and get a tab stuck there - saves ruining, or least compromising, a good box.
> 
> ...


Thanks John, but I can't find either the lid or the box online. 

Even if I did I would have to buy a spare carpet to practice on. I am no good at cutting the right size hole for stuff like that. 

-Eric


----------

