# what the going rate for 5k,10k,20k checkups?



## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

i am just curious as to what others are paying for these? my first one the 5k was like $70, now today i had the 10k and it went up to $110, i realize this one included the tire rotation, but still seems alot? i wonder what the 20K will be when they lubercate the roof? im gonna guess 200? what ever happen to the $19.95 change with a free car wash? i know thats price doesnt include syntetic, but inless you plan on keeping your car for ten years , i dont think syntetic is really all that nessary?


----------



## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: what the going rate for 5k,10k,20k checkups? (minnvw)*

Use the oil that VW tells you to use as a minimum. If you have an engine problem and cannot prove to VW that you used the recommended oil, then your warranty may be void. And it does not matter if you plan to keep the car a long time or a short time.
If the latter, then the person buying your car will see the use of the improper oil as a red flag telling them the owner didn't care one bit about maintaining the car. If the former, then why intentionally shorten the life of the engine by using an inferior oil?
$19.95 oil changes went out in the 70s/early 80s. If you don't want to pay the dealer, then learn how to do your own oil changes or find a trusted mechanic to do it for you (and jiffy lube (aka iffy lube) and their ilk do not count)..


----------



## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

Can you share with us what was on your bill for the 10K miles ?
My 5K service was $69.95+tax+SHOP FEE!? about $76, included only Oil Change.
Off topic:I hate fees in competitive services, they scream rip-off and lack of ethics in pricing to me. If you need to waste a $2 rag to change the oil, then add it to the price of the oil change, and disclose it up front ! Otherwise it stinks of "theft-like" behavior
But that's just me.

For $40 I might consider rotating my own tires !I would guess there was something else thrown in there...
Regards,
Israel


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: what the going rate for 5k,10k,20k checkups? (minnvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *minnvw* »_ i dont think syntetic is really all that nessary?









Synthetic oil has a higher evaporation point than traditional mineral based oils. I suspect that the requirement for synthetic oil is based, at least partially, on the higher temperatures the oil would encounter while lubricating the turbo.
I assume the 3.2 also calls for synthetic, and since it is not turbo charged, VW must recognize additional benefits to synthetics as well.
Additionally, with the recommended oil change interval for non-severe service at 10,000 miles (16000 km), the added cost of synthetic is offset somewhat by the extended interval.
Kevin


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (ialonso)*

The VW dealers, being independent businesses, are free to set their own prices for doing work. VW is forbidden by US law from regulating the prices that the dealers charge. In Canada, VW sets rules about maximum prices that can be charged (Suggested Repair Time x shop labour rate is maximum), but they cannot do that in the USA, it is unlawful interference with the right of the independent business to do as they please.
Having said that, there are two components to the cost of scheduled preventative maintenance, one is parts and the other is labour. Well, perhaps three components, because various levels of government want some sales tax out of it too.
Here are the suggested repair times (SRT) for carrying out some typical Eos preventative maintenance activities:
Eos 2.0L TFSI engine - 5,000 mile service 45/100ths of an hour
Eos 2.0L TFSI engine - 10,000 mile service 105/100ths of an hour
Eos 2.0L TFSI engine - 20,000 mile service 155/100ths of an hour
Eos 2.0L TFSI engine - 30,000 mile service 105/100ths of an hour
Eos 2.0L TFSI engine - 40,000 mile service 290/100ths of an hour
Eos 2.0L TFSI engine - 50,000 mile service 105/100ths of an hour
beyond that, you can usually figure things out from the activities listed in the owner manual. They generally consist of big/little/big/little, with the occasional 'very big' popping up every 40,000 miles or two years. The Eos will require more service time per visit than other VW products because of the attention that has to be paid to the roof.
Shop labour rates will vary - dependening mostly on how urban the area is. My dealer in Canada charges about USD $60 an hour. My dealer in Switzerland charges about USD $150 an hour. In Portugal, it's about USD $30 an hour. In Alberta, you just dispose of the car and get a new one at 5,000 miles, the labour rates are that high...








As far as parts go, keep in mind that the new synthetic oils are fairly expensive. Not half as bad as in Europe, but still, not $1.99 a quart either.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (ialonso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ialonso* »_For $40 I might consider rotating my own tires...

Naw, forget about that. You have to have two tires removed at the same time to rotate them, and that's difficult and dangerous to do without a lift.
I sometimes change my own snow / summer tires, just to save the hassle of making a service appointment, but that's easy to do - only one tire at a time. Don't forget that you need a torque wrench to tighten the bolts, though. A large torque wrench is fairly expensive (ca. $200 or so) - unless you share it with the neighbors on your street (what I do), it's tough to justify the investment for just one car.
Michael


----------



## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

The Mobil 1 0-40 Synthetic is $6.00/qt Which is still way better than the $7.50/qt I was spending on 505.01 oil for my TDI.
Also any place like Tires Plus, Mr Tire, or Generic Tire Chain Store will rotate your tires for around $10, unless you bought the tires from them, in which case it is free.
I definitely wouldn't put non-synthetic oil in an Eos. If you do it will undoubtedly burn more oil, and there is the sludging that was reported in the same engine (but in an Audi) before they came up with the new Spec. The 3.2 may be more tolerable, but if you put non spec oil in any VW (all the spec oils are synthetic) and it blows up, don't go crying to VW, because they'll test your oil before they shell out for a new engine.
Here's one of the older threads on this topic with the oil specs http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3020957


----------



## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
Naw, forget about that. You have to have two tires removed at the same time to rotate them, and that's difficult and dangerous to do without a lift.


You must also put your pants on both legs at the same time















Now me, I do it one leg at a time and when I rotate my tires I simply take one tire off, replace it with the spare, lower the car, swap tires, lower, then raise and replace the spare with the other tire and put the spare back in the trunk. Safe, effective, and only takes a little bit more time.


_Modified by owr084 at 8:16 AM 1-31-2007_


----------



## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_In Alberta, you just dispose of the car and get a new one at 5,000 miles, the labour rates are that high...








Michael

Our labour rates aren't too bad (I think about $70 USD/$85 CAD, but I'd have to check), recognizing that only 70% of people work in the oil industry and the other 30% need service every once-in-a-while too.








Now the fact that you have to book your 5,000 mile service two months *before* you order your car and six months before you receive your car, just to get an appointment, means that you just dispose of the car and get a new one.







Maybe I should try that tire rotation trick - use the spare for a while until the service is performed, park the spare, bring out the proper car for a few months, then rotate the spare back into use while waiting for the next checkup.








In case anyone was following my barely-woeful saga around customer service, VWOA did a phone survey on my last dealership visit. The numbers "2" and "3" were used a lot - so were "8" and "9" but less frequently. I'll be interested to see if that gets anyone's attention. The current labour market puts the dealership in a difficult position - tell customers not to come in and annoy them, or have too many come in for too few (quality) staff and have them disappointed.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (gilesrulz)*

Just a follow-up to Giles' comment above: I don't know squat about oil, and I am not a connoisseur of oil, however, I do know that there is one super-duper-important criteria that _MUST BE RESPECTED_ when you are choosing an oil to put in your Eos:
*It must conform to the VW 502 00 specification *(assuming your Eos is a North American vehicle - Europe has a different spec, as well as a third spec for diesel powered Eos).
Here's a brochure that explains the specification.


----------



## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

i just check with the valvoline instant change in town he only handles valvoline products, and claims they meet all manfutares specs, i asked him to read on the label, he couldnt because he uses bulk ,any one know if mobil 1 is? i know its not worth the few bucks id save to risk using some non approved oil , and void my warrenty


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (minnvw)*

On the chart of approved oils, Valvoline does have 2 different grades of their full synthetic "Synpower" that meets the Volkswagen 502.00 specification. Here's the list of approved oils in North America as of 2004...VW needs to put out an update.
http://www.vw.com/vwcom/conten...t.pdf
If the oil change buisness actually has oil meeting the 502.00 specification, its not gonna be bulk, you're gonna have to watch them put individual quarts of Valvoline "Synpower" into your car because these guys will tell you whatever you want to hear to get your money. So if you don't want to (or can't) micromanage the situation, just go to the dealer. Otherwise I guarantee you'll get the wrong oil.








The next problem is the quick lube having the correct tool to change your oil fliter. It takes a 36MM socket, here's a picture of mine below that I've been using on my BMWs. Most quick lube places do not have this tool...at least by me. 








Valvoline is headquartered in my town, flip a quart over and you'll see "Lexington, KY" on the back label. They have extensive test facilities where engines are run for weeks at a time, then disassembled to evaluate wear. I've had the opportunity to talk to several people who work at the test facilities, and they assure me that Mobil 1 is a better synthetic oil.



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 4:40 PM 1-31-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (minnvw)*

Hi Doug:
Download this list and see if the oil you are interested in is included. This is an *updated *version of what Wolfsburger referred to in his post above.
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 3:38 PM 1-31-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_... they assure me that _(insert name of favourite oil here)_ is a better synthetic oil.

Folks:
At the risk of continually repeating myself, the critical issue is not whether or not you get a 'better' oil, or 'the best' oil, or garden variety 'no-name out of a bulk drum' oil, the critical issue is that the oil must meet the VW 502 00 specification.
Think of it this way: Your boss sends you out to buy a pickup truck that your company can use for day to day running around. He or she says: _'I really don't care what kind of pickup truck you get, just get a pickup truck.'_ You come back later the same day with a brand new Rolls Royce Phantom that you were able to buy for half the price of a pickup truck because your brother in law sells Rolls Royces. Your boss then fires you, and you wonder why. He explains that a Rolls Royce Phantom may be the finest car in the world, but it doesn't meet the specification, which is that the vehicle has to be a pickup truck.
It's the *specification *- 502 00 - that matters, not the quality, nor the advertising, nor the brand name, nor what your daddy always used in his car.
Michael


----------



## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

And beware if it is says it "surpasses spec XXX.XX" but does not list it as meeting the spec. This usually means that they did not want to be certified by the manufacturer as meeting their spec and did it on their own...


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
It's the *specification *- 502 00 - that matters, not the quality, nor the advertising, nor the brand name, nor what your daddy always used in his car.
Michael

Of course the VW 502.00 specification should be strictly adhered to, that's not the issue...at this point everybody should be beyond that tidbit.
The problem is that within a grade of synthetic oil, or a specification such as Volkswagens 502.00, tangible quality differences still exist between brands that have nothing to do with what you pop likes, or whose marketing and product placement you've been exposed to.
Here's a good link that quickly explains the different classes of base stock that synthetics are made from. There's also charts below that show a number of parameters such as pour points, volatility, wear tests and the oil life expectancy directly from the oil manufacturer. Although these charts do not show 502.00 spec oil, they do illustrate how much difference can exist within a single grade of synthetic oil. It is also a good primer for understanding oil base stock.
http://www.technilube.com/sect...f.htm
This is something I was exposed to years ago in BMW forums, and my whole point in this VW spec 502.00 oil discussion is that most people are going to have to go out of their way to pursue what is effectively a "specialty" oil specific to their Volkswagen that is not readily available at every corner gas station or big box store. 
You might as well understand what you're getting and go after the best possible quality for your money. Mobil 1 is going to be, for most people in North America, the only readily available 502.00 spec oil that uses a true group IV synthetic base, as opposed to Valvoline (and most other manufaturers) who use a cheaper group III hydrocracked petroleum base. So the end lesson is that not all synthetic oil is created equally, performs equally, or has the same life expectancy. 
This difference in oil base stock should be of particular interest to those in love with the idea of a 10,000 mile oil change interval and something that was not specifically brought up in our earlier discussion on oil change frequency. Specifically, manufacturers of group III base stock synthetic oils can rate their oil life expectancy at 7500 miles or less (refer to the link in this post). So its really not enough to only ask the engine manufacturer what the oil change interval is, you also have to find out what the oil manufacturer rates the life expectancy of their product to be. I still feel very comfortable on my earlier claim in another thread that a 10,000 mile oil change interval is absurd, and motivated by the unfortunate marketing and sales requirement to generate a lower cost of ownership figure for comparative purposes with other car manufacturers...so cars get sold.
For some, this type of analysis is going to be beyond their level of interest, and I understand that so just pick your 502.00 oil and go with it. There will be others who find the extra detail useful. 



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 8:18 PM 1-31-2007_


----------



## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

yes i see valvoline - synpower, and mobil 1 both do meet the vw 502 specs, so i can go to valvoline have by little book stamped and still keep the warrenty valid, the miles i put on i think i might start doing that, it dont take a rocket scientest to change oil, ill still go to the dealer for inspections on the roof and major inspections,


----------



## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Just HAD to kick that dog that one last time didn't you?








I will say only this on that subject. No matter how many websites you or anyone else researches, you will never even approach the amount of testing, engineering, and expertise that went into the VW oil specs and change interval. 
I have never seen or heard a Volkswagen marketed by cost of ownership, and I feel absolutely confident that changing my oil every 10k miles and even using Castrol Syntec to do it, because that is what VW recommends and what they supply their dealerships with in the US. 
I use Mobil 1 0w40 because I think it's a better oil, but I know from experience that Castrol Syntec is a fine high quality oil that will happily go 10k between changes, because that was the only 505 spec oil available when I had my TDI.


----------



## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

yeah gil, i had to kick the dog once more, ha Im still waiting to hear from anyone thats been in for their 20k service? and how bad vw sticks it to them,, weve only had our 3mos and were over 10k ,


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_Of course the VW 502.00 specification should be strictly adhered to, that's not the issue...at this point everybody should be beyond that tidbit.
<<snip>>
For some, this type of analysis is going to be beyond their level of interest, and I understand that so just pick your 502.00 oil and go with it. There will be others who find the extra detail useful. 

Hi Wolfsburger:
I wasn't taking issue with any of the comments you have made about the various brands of oil. Personally, I'm quite neutral about oil brands - I have no opinion at all.
What I wanted to stress is pretty much exactly what you identified in your last paragraph. In North America, people don't pay very much attention to specifications at all - for example, if the gasoline specification listed on the gas cap flap sticker is premium, they put regular in; if the tire pressure specification on the B pillar door sticker is 42, they put 34 in, and on and on. VW of America knows this, and this is a big part of the reason why extended service intervals are not offered on NAR vehicles.
When it comes to oil, though, it is really critical that the owner uses an oil that meets the spec set for the vehicle (the VW 502 00 spec). 'Meeting spec' and 'high quality' or 'great reputation' are not synonymous. There are economy products that meet the spec, and there are very high quality oils that have highly respected reputations that don't meet the spec. This is what I am trying to emphasize - you have to first make sure that whatever it is you are considering meets the VW 502 00 spec, and then within that spec, you are free to choose whatever brand you wish based on whatever criteria or rational you wish to use.
This might seem obvious to you, but believe me, it is not obvious to the majority of NAR automobile owners.
Michael


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

My apologies to everyone. I did get overexcited and go off the deep end on that one. I'll admit it.


----------



## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: what the going rate for 5k,10k,20k checkups? (owr084)*

$19.95 oil changes might of went out in the 80s but i just saw a add at my local GM dealer for a $27.99 , which includes, oil change, tire rotate, brake inspection, and also a FREE CAR WASH , which i didnt get at my $105 price, i agree the synthetic is couple bucks a quart more but, thats quite a spread, im thinkin vw dealer is gonna have to find some one else, with a bigger pocket book


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_My apologies to everyone. I did get overexcited and go off the deep end on that one. I'll admit it.

Wolf,
Just for the record, I thought it was a good post, and enjoyed reading the article.
Also, you did qualify the post by stating it may be more info than some may want, and to take it for what it was worth.
Kevin


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: what the going rate for 5k,10k,20k checkups? (minnvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *minnvw* »_but i just saw a add at my local GM dealer for a $27.99 , which includes, oil change, tire rotate, brake inspection, and also a FREE CAR WASH , 

I'm sure you are already aware of this, but remember that offering to perform a service like this at, or below cost, is a marketing ploy. They want to get your vehicle in, look it over, and try to find some additional repairs that need to be done.
You can likely expect a phone call, or a note on your invoice, suggesting that your brake pads are close to worn out, or, we noticed your CV boots are cracked, would you like us to take care of this for you while we have the car on the hoist and the brakes apart already?
If the dealership is ethical, the repairs are likely required, but they are counting on being able to "supersize" a certain percentage of the work orders to make this a paying campaign.
I appreciate, and respect, the fact you are cost conscious and looking to maximize the value you receive for your money, but remember, if it sounds to good to be true, it quite likely is.
Kevin


----------



## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: what the going rate for 5k,10k,20k checkups? (just4fun)*

[
i was just trying to say i very much doubt if they could fine any cracked cv boots , or woren brake pads on our new eos , with only 10k on the clock,,so i dont think id get many calls?



_Modified by minnvw at 7:15 PM 2-2-2007_


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: what the going rate for 5k,10k,20k checkups? (minnvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *minnvw* »_[
i was just trying to say i very much doubt if they could fine any cracked cv boots , or woren brake pads on our new eos , with only 10k on the clock,,so i dont think id get many calls?
_Modified by minnvw at 7:15 PM 2-2-2007_

No, of course not. I was just pointing out that this type of marketing campaign has an alternative motive.
Kevin


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_
Of course the VW 502.00 specification should be strictly adhered to, that's not the issue...at this point everybody should be beyond that tidbit.
The problem is that within a grade of synthetic oil, or a specification such as Volkswagens 502.00, tangible quality differences still exist between brands that have nothing to do with what you pop likes, or whose marketing and product placement you've been exposed to.
--SNIP--
For some, this type of analysis is going to be beyond their level of interest, and I understand that so just pick your 502.00 oil and go with it. There will be others who find the extra detail useful.

THANK YOU!!!!








I have been trying to figure this out myself!








I also went through a similar thing for my aircooled VWs, and have found this information from a company which makes high-end VW/Porsche engine parts (most of which is about zinc & phosphorus levels in petroleum oils, but also mentions Mobil 1 and Amsoil among others)
I have been using Castrol GTX in my aircooled VWs (which rates well), but I am now considering *Mobil 1* or *a Amsoil group IV synthetic* at my 5k change in the Eos, rather than a Castrol group III synthetic.
BTW, I just called my dealership, which quoted me ~$70 for 5k, and "around $100" for 10k service. They told me that they carry only Castrol "full synthetic" 5w30 for my Eos _(which from the approved-list must be *Castrol TXT Softec Plus SL*, I guess?)_
When I asked about choices, they told me that it was published, and I said it was confusing to see SO MANY listed-- he recommended their Castrol *or Mobil 1*.(which I'd have to bring in)
I guess you bring your own oil filter too (maybe a Mobil 1 branded filter?)
*Of course*, I will use the proper weight oil, *from the 502.00 list*, but it is nice to be able to find some info about the differences.
I might have to bring my own VW Wax Spray too (Corrosion Prevention Precautions when removing and replacing wheels), since they didn't seem to know about using it when rotating tires...








William


_Modified by kghia at 11:37 AM 2-3-2007_


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (kghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kghia* »_
I guess you bring your own oil filter too (maybe a Mobil 1 branded filter?)
I might have to bring my own VW Wax Spray too (Corrosion Prevention Precautions when removing and replacing wheels), since they didn't seem to know about using it when rotating tires...








William

_Modified by kghia at 11:37 AM 2-3-2007_

Yes, I found the wheel mounting flange wax issue from the Phaeton threads very interesting. Its a little dissapointing that your dealer didn't know about it. The wax on the wheel bevel is the kind of thing I would do, but most people would call it obsessive compulsive....but that's fine, at least I'm not silly enough to waste hours yelling at a TV screen while its showing a football or basketball game.
For what its worth on the oil filter, I'd stick with an original VW part, or one from a German filter OEM like Mann. Bosch are Mahle are also worth investigating. I'm sure Mobil just relables someone elses filter, hence you have no idea what you're actually getting. Often with these cartridge filters for German cars, you end up with one from a German OEM anyways because American filter manufacturers are geared toward the production of the spin on type, so they just buy in bulk from Germany and repackage for "foreign" applications....but not always.
Mann has always been respected in the BMW community. Really any German car community.
Check Germanfilters.com, they have decent case quantity prices.
http://www.germanfilters.com/ 












_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 3:57 PM 2-4-2007_


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (kghia)*

OK, maybe the dealership has 5W40 Castrol also, since the Eos owner's manual says the use 5W-40, or 5W-30 _if you can't get 5W40_.
But the only Mobil 1 in 5W-40 seems to say for Turbo Diesel Truck 
On the other hand, the MobilOil.com website, when you specify 2007>Volkswagen>Eos,
lists Mobil 1 0W-40 as the proper oil. (not exactly the weight the manual says, although it *does* meet 502.00 and 505.00 and 503.01)
so I am wondering -- *does this 0W-40 weight meet warranty requirements?*








I know with my aircooled VWs that outside temp, driving conditions (opinions) could change which weight or weight range to use, but now there is another factor-- *Warranty*
My dealership's service did mention Mobil 1 when I asked about options, but since I would have to bring it in myself, I need to be esp. informed (and careful).
Is it up to me to decide the proper weight as long as it meets specifications, or _must_ I use either a 5W-40 or 5W-30 synthetic in North America?








William


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (kghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kghia* »_
so I am wondering -- *does this 0W-40 weight meet warranty requirements?*










It carries the VW 502.00 certification, says so on the back of a bottle, and here's the redundant info from their website.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-En....aspx
As a cross reference, it appears on the list of oils approved by VW. I would think that would be the information you're after. Although this table does additionally list Mobil 5w40, the specifications on the Mobil website do not indicate the 502.00 spec with this weight, so I'd avoid it. The list is worldwide, so it might be referencing a special Euro market 5W40 that is not available here. The Mobil website might need an update too.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...s.pdf
I also found it strange that its the only 0W40 on Volkswagen's (2004 North American) list, but also consider that all oils vary in their actual viscosity, regardless of what their labeled viscosity is. That was seen in my earlier link here...
http://www.technilube.com/sect...f.htm 
As you can see, oils that are rated the same weight in reality have significantly different viscosity indexes and cold pour points. In the 5w30 oils, cold pour point varies pretty widely from -38 to -60 although they all carry the 5W rating. 
Its sort of like the treadwear rating on your tires, there's alot of ambiguity in that specification too. A rating of, for example 400, means different things to different tire manufacturers. So you can use that figure to compare tires within a certian brand, but its less meaningful when you try to compare different brands of tires to each other.
Really if you're going to the VW dealer for your oil change, I'd just let them use all the VW parts (so long as they are actually doing that, you'll have to make sure they do). My opinion on parts has been from a DIY approach. 
Now to further confuse the issue, going back up a few paragraphs, there is niche products out there, and emerging questions about the quality of Mobil 1 (which at this point appears to still be strictly rumor) that I have not been able to precisely confirm. For the niche example, Castrol has a special German made synthetic that is purported to be a true group IV synthetic. Alot of hardcore Euro car guys I've seen go after this, and it does have the full suite of Volkswagen certifications on the back, although its a different weight. Here's a link that tells a little about the German Castrol and the Mobil 1 issues (which does need further research). There comes a point where you just have to pick something and go with it, and the world is a dynamic place that's always changing...so the oil quality issue needs constant evaluation due to its ever changing nature.
http://www.neowin.net/forum/lo....html
Look, a fluke. German made Castrol Syntec with group IV base (allegedly) and 502.00 certification. Maybe they make 5w40 too, I don't know. The label also says "Not for sale outside the Americas". German made strictly for the Americas...I find that very odd. There's discussion about this in other Vortex forums. Its often just called "German Castrol" if you want to search it here or in google.



















_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 11:38 AM 2-5-2007_


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_It carries the VW 502.00 certification, says so on the back of a bottle, and here's the redundant info from their website.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-En....aspx
As a cross reference, it appears on the list of oils approved by VW. I would think that would be the information you're after.
_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 11:38 AM 2-5-2007_

BUT, *is it up to me to decide the proper weight as long as it meets specifications, or must I use either a 5W-40 or 5W-30 synthetic in North America? * (per my owner's manual)
The same question applies to the German Castrol (which my local autozone carries) -- am I allowed to vary the weight if I meet 502.00 specs? I noticed both the "Made in Germany", and the "Only for North America..." labelling too















I have followed all of those other links, some of my own, and read a dozen bottles at the AutoZone...it just leaves me more confused now.
William


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (kghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kghia* »_
BUT, *is it up to me to decide the proper weight as long as it meets specifications, or must I use either a 5W-40 or 5W-30 synthetic in North America? * (per my owner's manual)


I would think you have the ability to select a weight of oil that meets your needs (based on the guidelines in the owners manual) so long as it carries the 502.00 spec. After all, the US is a huge country and you cannot expect the appropriate viscosity for Minnesota to be the same as Miami. If you are worried about possible engine warranty issues, I would send an e-mail to VWoNA to get a black and white response that can be referenced in the event that an issue arises.
I would be skeptical of the German Castrol, mainly because it does not appear on any approved oil list from VW (that I've seen). So obviously data is missing somewhere, if its NOT on the list from VW, but the bottle does have the VW certifications.



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 3:51 PM 2-5-2007_


----------



## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

That oil wouldn't be on the US list because it's not a US marketed oil. 
I would be skeptical about grey market items like this unless you had a very trustworthy supplier. If you have a problem with that oil, Castrol is certainly not going to come to your rescue because it's not packaged for this market. There would also be some question whether VW would help you since there is no guarantee that it is what it says it is since it's a grey market item.
As far as weight goes, the manual implies that 0w-40, 5w-30, and 5w-40 are all acceptable weights. All three of these oils would be fine for most of the US with the exception of the warmest regions of the country, where you would want skip the 5w-30.


----------



## just4fun_ (Jan 23, 2007)

*Re: (kghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kghia* »_
BUT, *is it up to me to decide the proper weight as long as it meets specifications, or must I use either a 5W-40 or 5W-30 synthetic in North America? * (per my owner's manual)
William









Expanding on Wolfsburger's response:
I don't have an owners manual to refer to, nor is it convenient right now for me to reference the brochure Micheal posted a few weeks back, but I think it really comes down to the verbage used.
I believe it states that the VW 502.00 is *required*, if it is a requirement then you will have to adhere to it to protect your warranty.
I also believe it states that certain viscosities are *recommended*, If it is a recommendation, then you cetainly have the leeway to make choices that best fit your operating environment.
If you keep your receipts showing you purchased and used 502.00 spec oil, I would suggest VW would be *required* to honor your warranty. The question is, would they try and fight it if a problem arises? If you get the oil change done at the VW dealer, even if you supply the oil, I would say you should have no worries about your warranty, the documentation exists to support any claim.
If the dealership has any concerns about your oil choice, they can discuss it with you before they put it in the engine.
If you are a DIY'er, then providing documented proof that you not only purchased and used the required spec oil, but also faithfully changed oil at the recommended intervals, can be more difficult. Or, even more likely, the requirement to maintain documentation is simply overlooked by many DIY'ers. If you are a DIY'er make a concerted effort to document, and retain, oil and filter invoices, and any other proof of maintenance you feel would support a potential warranty claim. Remember the more you can do to prove you followed the recommended/required process, the harder it is for them to prove you didn't.
Bottom line IMHO, use any 502.00 that makes you happy, as long as the *recommended* viscosity rating is suitable to your environment.
Kevin








One last comment: If anyone is really stressing over oil selection and warranty, just let your VW dealer do your oil changes with whatever VW recommended oil they use. If it is documented and performed by the dealer, there really should never be a warranty challenge on oil related claims.

_Modified by just4fun_ at 12:01 PM 2-5-2007_

_Modified by just4fun_ at 12:11 PM 2-5-2007_


_Modified by just4fun_ at 12:12 PM 2-5-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (kghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kghia* »_I noticed both the "Made in Germany", and the "Only for North America..." labelling too

Sharp observation, William.
Volkswagen vehicles sold in North America require a different oil specification (VW 502 00) than Volkswagen vehicles sold in the rest of the world, even if the engine is the same.
This is because the NAR (North American Region) vehicles are on fixed oil change intervals (time and distance), and the ROW (Rest of World) vehicles are on variable service intervals (thermal cycles, etc.).
The oil specification for the ROW vehicles is quite different from VW 502 00, and the two oils are not interchangeable. ROW oil costs about twice as much as NAR oil.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (just4fun_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun_* »_If you keep your receipts showing you purchased and used 502.00 spec oil, I would suggest VW would be *required* to honor your warranty. The question is, would they try and fight it if a problem arises? 

Hi Kevin:
If you choose to do your own oil changes, or have your oil changed an an independent service facility, VW will be *happy *- in fact, *downright friggin' delighted* - to honour any warranty claims that may arise as long as the following two criteria have been met:
*1)* You used the correct specification of oil (VW 502 00), and;
*2)* You carried out the required preventative maintenance according to the VW recommended schedule - in other words, you did the oil changes every 10,000 miles.
This presumes, of course, that there is no other nonsense going on, for example, you have not 'chipped' your engine, or used the car for drag racing every weekend, etc.
Keep in mind that the warranty is administered and paid for by Volkswagen of America - the importer - not by the independent Volkswagen dealers. Although VW of America encourages the owners to have the vehicle serviced at the independent dealers, their main concern is that the vehicle is cared for according to the maintenance schedule, not where it is cared for. If you can prove that you have cared for the vehicle in accordance with the maintenance schedule, then you have no worries about your warranty coverage remaining valid.
It would probably be a wise idea to ensure that the service records (maintenance receipts) from independent facilities show sufficient detail about the oil used to prove that it was VW 502 00 spec.
Michael


----------



## just4fun_ (Jan 23, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hi Micheal,
I realize I may have gone a little overboard on that last post, I was basically trying to point out what you confirmed, follow the rules, and you should be OK. But be aware you may need to substantiate your maintenance records if a conflict occurs.
I still find I'm a little taken aback by the concern expressed by some of the US forum members about warranty issues and purchase contracts, so I went a little overboard trying to clarify my point. I can only assume these concerns stem from the somewhat more litigous environment that seems to exist south of the 49th.
Kevin


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (just4fun_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun_* »_...these concerns stem from the somewhat more litigious environment that seems to exist south of the 49th.

Hi Kevin:
I hear what you are saying. The key point with warranty issues is to keep in mind the difference between 'VW the Importer' (Volkswagen of America), and 'VW the retailer' (your local, independently owned, franchised dealer). Warranty work must be carried out by a VW dealer, but it is paid for by VW of America. Hence, it is VW of America that approves warranty expenditures, not the local VW dealer.
For routine preventative maintenance such as oil changes, etc., you are not obliged to go to a VW dealer - though I personally think it makes sense to go to a VW dealer, and that is what I do myself. For more complex issues - such as the inspections and adjustments of the roof that are required at various intervals of the maintenance schedule - it would probably be best to go to a VW dealer. You might have a difficult time convincing VW of America to honour a warranty claim on a roof if you try to tell them that the kids at the local Kwik-Lube carried out the maintenance and inspection of the roof that is mandated in the Eos Maintenance Schedule.








For what it's worth, VW did have a number of warranty claims related to oil problems on one kind of engine a few years ago. Maintenance history of the affected vehicles fit one of three possible categories:
*1)* Vehicle was maintained as the schedule called for at the VW dealer. In this case, it was quick and easy to process the repair under warranty, because all the service records were available on the VW computer.
*2) *Vehicle was maintained as the schedule called for, but not by the VW dealer. In this case there was no problem processing the warranty claim as long as the customer could prove that the maintenance had been carried out (prove = show invoices with details of work done and parts used).
*3)* Customer did not maintain the vehicle in accordance with maintenance schedule... in some cases, it still had the original oil in it. This is when things became difficult.
Michael


----------



## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

hi michael, some good points there as far as where to have service performed at, i just would like to add the "Federal law gives you the right to service your vehicle wherever you like WITHOUT affecting your warranty coverage, lease vehicles not included depending on their contract


----------



## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

Not to be mean in any way, but only two posts contain your cost for the service.
Seeing how the title of the thread is 
what the going rate for 5k,10k,20k checkups?
maybe while we talk about the many on-topic things, we can al so add our cost for the service.


----------



## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

i dont know why we dont get any input as far as costs for service, i think i have more miles than any one, but i didnt get mine till end of october, i wished id hear from more ppl? i know i can call a few different dealer to find out the cost, dont know why ppl dont want to share that info?


----------



## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: (ialonso)*

My guess is that maybe not that many people have reached those points. We picked up our Eos on October 7th and have 4500 miles on the odometer. Will be glad to post the cost once we get the 5K service done.
Andy


----------



## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

andy yeah if you would that would be great, ours is on the road every day, 400 mi during the week with couple hunderd on wk end is not uncommon, were close to11k now,, sure is a fun car to drive, cant wait to drive it with top down ha,, sorry bout da bears, i was rootin for them oh well doug


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (ialonso)*

sorry that it got off topic somewhat,
although you might say that one price is $5017 = $17 for a bunch of quarts of cheap oil + $5000 for replacing an engine and it not being on warranty because of price#1
I called my local dealership _again_, and was quoted "about $100"
I asked what if I brought my own (spec'd oil) and was told $40-$60, plus my own oil.
I asked for detail of the oil, and was told Castrol Syntec 505.01, specially formulated for VWs, etc etc which can be bought from them at $6.96/qt part#G0521167A2
BTW, I count at least *4 previous replies on cost for service* (although like many, I haven't gotten to 5k yet, only called the dealer about it)
To summarize the onces with actual prices:

_Quote, originally posted by *minnvw* »_i am just curious as to what others are paying for these? my first one the 5k was like $70, now today i had the 10k and it went up to $110, i realize this one included the tire rotation, but still seems alot? i wonder what the 20K will be when they lubercate the roof?


_Quote, originally posted by *ialonso* »_My 5K service was $69.95+tax+SHOP FEE!? about $76, included only Oil Change.


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
Having said that, there are two components to the cost of scheduled preventative maintenance, one is parts and the other is labour. Well, perhaps three components, because various levels of government want some sales tax out of it too.
Here are the suggested repair times (SRT) for carrying out some typical Eos preventative maintenance activities:
Eos 2.0L TFSI engine - 5,000 mile service 45/100ths of an hour
Eos 2.0L TFSI engine - 10,000 mile service 105/100ths of an hour
Eos 2.0L TFSI engine - 20,000 mile service 155/100ths of an hour
Eos 2.0L TFSI engine - 30,000 mile service 105/100ths of an hour
Eos 2.0L TFSI engine - 40,000 mile service 290/100ths of an hour
Eos 2.0L TFSI engine - 50,000 mile service 105/100ths of an hour

beyond that, you can usually figure things out from the activities listed in the owner manual. They generally consist of big/little/big/little, with the occasional 'very big' popping up every 40,000 miles or two years. The Eos will require more service time per visit than other VW products because of the attention that has to be paid to the roof.
Shop labour rates will vary - dependening mostly on how urban the area is. My dealer in Canada charges about USD $60 an hour. My dealer in Switzerland charges about USD $150 an hour. In Portugal, it's about USD $30 an hour. In Alberta, you just dispose of the car and get a new one at 5,000 miles, the labour rates are that high...










_Quote, originally posted by *kghia* »_
BTW, I just called my dealership, which quoted me ~$70 for 5k, and "around $100" for 10k service. They told me that they carry only Castrol "full synthetic" 5w30 for my Eos _(which from the approved-list must be *Castrol TXT Softec Plus SL*, I guess?)_
When I asked about choices, they told me that it was published, and I said it was confusing to see SO MANY listed-- he recommended their Castrol *or Mobil 1*.(which I'd have to bring in)


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (kghia)*

Just a further thought about service prices:
My guess is that the cost of getting the car serviced in accordance with the requirements in the Preventative Maintenance booklet is not going to vary too much from VW dealer to VW dealer. My guess is that you might encounter a range of perhaps ± $50 or ± 20%, whichever is greater, depending on whether your dealer is rural or urban, family dealership or big corporate operation. Remember that I am comparing apples to apples here: Doing all the work that is on the list, and doing it at a VW dealer.
In light of the relatively small price difference when you consider it as part of the total vehicle ownership cost, it might make sense to pick a dealer that you know and trust - or one that you would like to get to know and trust - then stick with them, even if they are a bit more expensive than the next place down the road.
There are a whole heck of a lot of intangibles that come with having an ongoing business relationship with a service business (be that a hotel, a car dealership, or a house painter), and sometimes it is worth paying just a bit more in order to get the intangible benefits - things like getting recognized by name, being known as a regular customer, stuff like that.
I was at my VW dealer today putting a wiring harness in my Phaeton (I am retrofitting the OEM TV tuner), and working away quietly in one corner of the shop - I looked up and saw two almost identical Jettas side-by-side across on the other side of the shop, both with the hoods up. I asked what was happening. Seems the owner of one Jetta (a regular customer) had damaged a wiper arm removing ice from the car, but the dealership did not have a wiper arm in stock. So, they were removing a wiper arm from a new Jetta and installing it on the customer's Jetta, to get her on her way without any delay. When the new wiper arm arrives later in the week, it will be installed on the new Jetta, which is now sitting inside waiting for it.
Speaking only for myself, I didn't get the wiring harness work done on my car yesterday, despite putting in a 12 hour day. The lead technician at my dealership suggested that I take his car (his personal Touareg) home, and he would drive the dealership snowplow home. Heck, I'm not even a paying customer, and they are treating me nicely.
It's pretty hard to put a dollar value on things like that - but both the lady with the Jetta and myself have one thing in common, we are both regular customers at the same VW dealership.
Michael


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

My dealership had my car so a VWoA Eos tech could see what is required for a compass (long story in another thread).
While it was there, the service manager said he heard a rattling-- tightened up an O2 monitor or heat shield or something, under warranty of course.
I was following the oil discussion with the thought that I might take the oil I felt was best TO THE DEALER and let them do the whole service (maybe we need to bite the bullet and start on Oil thread). BTW, the oil they have is a Castrol 505.01 spec, suitable for turbo diesel even.
I think that the service people at my dealership know more about grumpy Customers than the salespeople. The bodyshop even seemed to jump to fix a small scratch (which they left, but still they didn't act as if it were unimportant by any means)
William


----------



## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

I have to agree that a good relationship with your service department is priceless. Although I have not reached that level with any dealer yet, I had a trusted mechanic before. I moved too far away from him, so I cannot use his services any more. Also my VW is under warranty, so to avoid warranty issues, I am sticking with Dealer Service.
What would you guys provide as suggestions to foster such a good relationship with a dealer whose service department is not as friendly, courteous and professional as you would like ? How do you improve these without changing dealers ?




_Modified by ialonso at 9:21 AM 2-8-2007_


----------



## just4fun_ (Jan 23, 2007)

*Re: (ialonso)*

Well, that could be difficult if you are not getting treated the way you would like, but if they are doing anything you appreciate here's an idea that I used that resulted in very positive results.
Several years ago I started dealing with the local Ford dealer, The service advisors were very friendly and helpful, nothing really out of the ordinary, but definitely worth recognizing.
I decided one day, that we too often take the time to bitch and complain if something is not right, but very seldom take the time to compliment if things are all good.
So I wrote a letter to the owner (not the manager, but the owner) of the dealership and told him how much I appreciated the friendly service I was receiving from (insert names here) in the service department, and what valuable assets these two individuals were to his business.
This letter was posted on the bulletin board in the service department for months, and I was immediately promoted to platinum customer #1 in the eyes of the service advisors.
After that I never had to ask about a TB or recall, they were done without asking before I ever received notification from the manufacture, If the shop was busy, they almost always managed to squeeze me in for repairs, and probably just as important, we always enjoyed a bit of bull session whenever I dropped off my vehicle. 
If you can find one or two positives about your customer service representatives, and put it in writing with a request to ensure those individuals are recognized for their efforts, you will probably find you are well on your way to the best customer service you have ever experienced.
Kevin


----------



## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

A long time ago when we were on this subject I mentioned that I would post the cost for my 5K service. Normally it should be just over $73. My dealer has an online newsletter which had an oil change coupon which brought my cost down to $54. They also gave me a little card that now has $11 credit on it and they will add to it every I come in for nonwarranty work. It is based on a percentage of the bill.
Andy


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: what the going rate for 5k,10k,20k checkups? (minnvw)*

I just had my 5k mile service done.
My dealer charged me around $10 too much for my mats, and gave me the oil filter for free in exchange (they offered to refund or give free filter)
So my 5k service was:
$36.00 labor, at usual $92 per hour
$31.25 for 5 qts/liters? of Castrol Syntec 5W40
$4.36 waste removal fee
$2.00 washer fluid
$2.24 tax
$20.00 tire rotation, which I requested based on recommendation of main dealership
------
$95.85
I called and they said that the filter would have been around $12-15 more (if they hadn't been giving it to me)
They also included a $6 credit for courtesy car wash, and then a $6 charge for the same.
When I picked it up, I talked with the service people some. We talked about the wax spray (which they said wasn't needed, because cars which got only alloys have an alloy centering hub--thus no dissimilar metals)
The Eos tech also gave me advice about putting on my rear splashguards, and about how they do the window adaptation (keep door closed, use a roll of towels to stop it)
William


----------



## The Fig (Mar 23, 2007)

In the UK, my dealer charges the following for a TDI service:
10K: $260
20K: $400 + $110 for brake fluid change
30K: $260
40K: $565 + $110 brake fluid + $800 cam belt change
and the cycle repeats ad bankruptum...
And if any of you in the US/Canada think that's expensive, you'd be absolutely right. I'm shipping my car to Alberta for its services (right Michael







)
Jason


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (The Fig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Fig* »_In the UK, my dealer charges the following for a TDI service:
10K: $260
20K: $400 + $110 for brake fluid change
30K: $260
40K: $565 + $110 brake fluid + $800 cam belt change
and the cycle repeats ad bankruptum...
And if any of you in the US/Canada think that's expensive, you'd be absolutely right. I'm shipping my car to Alberta for its services (right Michael







)
Jason


Actually Michael is in Ontario, which is good, it's a lot closer for you








Just checked the owners manual, in Canada the brake fluid change isn't until 40K miles (64K km) or every two years, whichever comes first. Do they actually recommend every 20K in the UK?
Kevin








EDIT: Checking the maintenance schedule further, the next brake fluid change isn't recommended until 120K miles (180K km), or two years, whichever comes first.
Without knowing the maintenance schedule in the UK owners manual it is unfair to comment, but if the dealership is recommending brake fluid changes every 20K, it sounds like maybe they are trying to pad their pockets a bit. 
Then again, 20K is likely a two year cycle for the average driver, which would fall within the recommendations.



_Modified by just4fun at 8:35 AM 3-30-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (The Fig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Fig* »_In the UK, my dealer charges the following for a TDI service... And if any of you in the US/Canada think that's expensive, you'd be absolutely right.

I have to agree, UK costs are very, very hard to comprehend. I occasionally have to fly an aircraft from Zurich to the UK (Southend airport) and drop it off there for service. I then return to Zurich the same day on a commercial carrier. When I make these little trips, I ask the staff at the Hilton in Zurich (where I live) to pack me a box lunch, because it is cheaper to have the Hilton pack me a box lunch than to buy a ham and cheese sandwich at a UK airport.
We had a discussion on the Phaeton forum a year ago about service charges, and some of the UK members reported what they were paying. I offered to come and do the work (the oil change and car wash) on my day off for half the price. Heck, I could even pay the jet fuel cost on the company plane and still come out ahead...








Michael


----------



## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Ah... Now I Remember
Reasons for moving 'across the pond'...
(1) I can afford a fully loaded EOS 3.2
(2) I can afford to maintain the above..
(3) I can almost afford to put fuel in the above








(4) In a bad year I have to drive to work with the roof up no more than 10 or 12 times..








-Mark

_Modified by mark_d_drake at 9:26 AM 3-30-2007_


_Modified by mark_d_drake at 9:27 AM 3-30-2007_


----------



## atlantanorth (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: what the going rate for 5k,10k,20k checkups? (minnvw)*

I just had my 5,000 mile servicing last Saturday. It cost me $76.55. It included:
Oil Change and filters
All other fluids top off
Lubricating Top Seals
Update on ECM due to recall notice
It was cheaper than the servicing on my former BMW I can tell you that.


----------



## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

hi atlanta,, yeah thats about the going rate for a 5K , yeah im sure the Beemer boys know how to charge ha ,, i was suprised they lube the top at the 5k, did you request that? its a good idea for sure


----------



## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (minnvw)*

I had my 5,000 service done last week, their normal price is $66, but they had a coupon for $49.99 they mailed to me a month ago. They also lubed the top because I had a couple of squeaks. My service guy did not charge me anything because he said I had to wait too long. I felt bad not paying, but he insisted in not charging...imagine the goodwill and referrals this creates.


----------



## atlantanorth (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: (minnvw)*

Yes I did ask for them to lube the seals, but they did not charge me for it. They had it listed as being under warranty on the print out.


----------

