# Another build thread, musta saw too many Porsche-Audi decals on old race cars.



## rohar (May 19, 2001)

I've been away for a few years, moving twice and having 2 kids kinda put cars on the back burner for a while. I picked up a new chassis a couple of years ago and immediately buried it in construction debris from rebuilding the house. Now that that's all done, off we go into more nightmares and I thought I'd share.

First project was new custom hubs to accept modern available rims. Stock bolt pattern is almost completely NLA. The fronts are billet aluminum and allowed me to upgrade to 911 disks and calipers:










The rears are stock hubs filled and redrilled to 4x114.4. Had to "massage" the rear fenders a bit to fit the new tires under there:










With the new calipers, a larger 911 master was installed as well.

...oh yeah, the hybrid part 

Test fit after removing some of the body work in the way:









Front motor mount cross member finished (from the phone, sorry 'bout the quality):










...and last for the night, a couple of pieces of stainless I had spun down so I can hook axles to the audi tranny:










I'll try and keep the updates coming in as I make progress!


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## dik-van-dub (Jul 25, 2010)

this is going to be nuts, never ever thought about doing anything like this but wished i did now


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Down side to working with these old Porsches, it was before they figured out anything regarding rust abatement. This example is actually in pretty good shape so I'm gonna get off easy. That said, I'm gonna have to grind all this rust out and laminate a new piece of metal to it.










If I'm not posting for a couple of days, it's because I'm busy curing cancer.


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## MrDave (Jul 26, 2002)

Audi V6 with modern Audi trans. Smart.
You car started with the side-shifter trans?

What are the plans for the shifter?


-Dave


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

MrDave said:


> Audi V6 with modern Audi trans. Smart.
> You car started with the side-shifter trans?
> 
> What are the plans for the shifter?
> ...


Yeah, this one was a side shifter. The last water cooled conversion I did was a 8v GTI block hooked to the 901 with a Kennedy adapter. It was spirited, but it was still a transmission designed in the '50s.

Since the Audi box is virtually identical and placement is similar, I just grabbed the shifter/cables/bellcranks off a bosxter. Total no brainer. Grafting a clutch master onto the pedal though, should present some challenge.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

*cancer treatment*

I'm starting to tire of lifting the car, pushing the engine tranny in/out, then dropping the car, then doing it all over again. Getting these mounts done would be so much easier with a lift.

To take my mind off things, thought I'd chase cancer for a bit, the hell hole (the spot just behind the firewall on the right side) has all kinds of angles and dangles. It's a structural member, so the 30 years of battery acid induced rust has to be dealt with. I'm way too damned lazy to go at it with any number of different sized wire wheels, so I decided to give it a shot with electrolysis.

Put some thin sponges over the area:










Soak it wit a mix of water and washing soda, toss a sacrificial anode on top.










Cover the whole mess with another sponge and a rock to ensure there's surface contact, hook the anode to the hot side of a battary charger, the cold side to the chassis, soak with more washing soda solution:










Let it cook for about an hour and:










A big black spot where rust used to be. It's pitted as all get out and I'll have to deal with that, but there's a bunch of rust gone.

I'm gonna need a bigger anode...


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## MrDave (Jul 26, 2002)

updates?


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

MrDave said:


> updates?


I had to deal with a week full of the "I don't wanna fabricate anything". The wife and kids left me for the 3 day weekend, and I've busted through one tryanny mount. I'm off to pick up more disks for the grinder and I'll polish off the other and post more pics.

I'm SO looking forward to getting the mounts done, the complicated fabrication is almost over...


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

WHOOHOO! The engine, tranny and chassis are now one. It wasn't pretty, and I had to sacrifice a couple of goats the the Porsche gods, but it's done. Now on to the brainless stuff.

A problem popped up though, my favorite auto dismantler sent me an email that they've got an Audi 3.6l v8 they're trying to unload. If I work them, I could pick up the engine, radiator, clutch master, full shift linkage and radiator for under $1k. Miles are a bit high, but compression numbers seem good. Seems silly to go though this much trouble without going mind numbingly big.

Thoughts guys?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

seems better than the 2.8 that you have now.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

...except that it's a nickasil block so it can never be rebuilt, I can never replace rings. Seems a bit of a gamble,


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Then I would at least go for a 30V 2.8 and not a 12V. Are there any decent performance parts for the motor you have now? Locally I have seen SBC and a 4.3L V6 put in these, and those go very nicely.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

But the 30v has been worked. The 12v hasn't. Much like the 8v 4 was relatively unworked when a couple of us went at it 25 years ago. The draw of pushing a cheep engine to the limit is hard to walk away from. 

That said, an extra 60hp before anything gets tuned up is hard to walk away from, especially when it shares the motor mounts with the block I've already fabbed around. It should just bolt right in.

I'm thinking a phone call to the rip it yard is necessary in the morning.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

yes, the unique build has it's allure. BTW, what are you planning to run these motors with?


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

ps2375 said:


> yes, the unique build has it's allure. BTW, what are you planning to run these motors with?


I was thinking gasoline 

Wait, that's too obvious, could you be a bit more specific?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Stock management or a stand-alone?


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

My plan was MS3.0. It's sitting on the bench and ready to go. If a 3.6 comes available, I may change my plans a bit. V8 on CIS seems interesting. Besides, the V8 has a distributor, no reason not to use it.

As to the idea of an American 4.3, it's a bullshiat solution. Good power, but the only tranny solution is a Kennedy adapter and the stock 901. All the power in the world but you can't shift for nothing as you suffer from SLAP. That's the primary reason I'm going with Audi components.


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## Rocco R16V (Oct 7, 2008)

very cool, I say get the V8! or 2.7tt?


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

After sleeping on it, better judgment got the best of me. Switching engines at this point would almost guarantee it won't be done by fall. I'm leaving the door open at a later date though. A 4.2 should be a pretty easy swap once the 6 is up and going.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Finally made some progress. Tranny mounts are done:


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

So it's been a bit. I've been working over interesting parts of the internet at mach speed recently. Work let up and I had a free weekend. Managed to get the radiator clamped and mounted. It's sourced from an Audi V8. You think it's big enough?










I'm thinking it's not gonna have much stowage in the front trunk anymore.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

For info, the Audi V8 is alusil, not nicasil. You can hone it and re-ring it, and you can even get bearings for it these days too 

Head over to Motorgeek for loads of useful info on the V8, including a couple of full rebuilds. If you can get a 3.6 then don't waste your time on the 12V 2.8 - the V8 weighs slightly less, makes 76hp more out of the box and is far more tunable :thumbup: You can run it on MS3 with Edis too. It will bolt up to the V6 tranny - you just need to source a flywheel and clutch.

Cool project :beer:


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

MikkiJayne said:


> For info, the Audi V8 is alusil, not nicasil. You can hone it and re-ring it, and you can even get bearings for it these days too
> 
> Head over to Motorgeek for loads of useful info on the V8, including a couple of full rebuilds. If you can get a 3.6 then don't waste your time on the 12V 2.8 - the V8 weighs slightly less, makes 76hp more out of the box and is far more tunable :thumbup: You can run it on MS3 with Edis too. It will bolt up to the V6 tranny - you just need to source a flywheel and clutch.
> 
> Cool project :beer:


Or even better use the stock ignition triggers with MS3/3X and run GM LS coils. They are plug and play with the 3X and as bullet proof as you can get.


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## groundupjetta (Feb 1, 2010)

sweet build, cant wait to see it all done!



Prof315 said:


> Or even better use the stock ignition triggers with MS3/3X and run GM LS coils. They are plug and play with the 3X and as bullet proof as you can get.


x2
the edis coil works pretty good too on the same application with options of aftermarket performance coils for dirty cheap


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

MikkiJayne said:


> For info, the Audi V8 is alusil, not nicasil. You can hone it and re-ring it, and you can even get bearings for it these days too
> 
> Head over to Motorgeek for loads of useful info on the V8, including a couple of full rebuilds. If you can get a 3.6 then don't waste your time on the 12V 2.8 - the V8 weighs slightly less, makes 76hp more out of the box and is far more tunable :thumbup: You can run it on MS3 with Edis too. It will bolt up to the V6 tranny - you just need to source a flywheel and clutch.
> 
> Cool project :beer:


Great, more design decisions half way through the project. YOU'RE NOT HELPING!!! 

On the lookout for a 3.6 but gonna progress anyway.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

rohar said:


> YOU'RE NOT HELPING!!!


:laugh:

Its a simple enough swap later anyway :thumbup: I'm about to do it to an A4


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

So time to put a water container in the car. Radiator braces:



















You can't see it, but under that fender washer there's a big rubber gromet to allow some chassis flex and not crack the radiator.

Top end, hey look, the manufacturers gave me a nut welded to the chassis in the right place!:









Air goes here, and yes, it's winking at you on purpose:







Why the heck is there an air matress pump on my front cowl? I never notice these oddities until I post the picsw on the internet...

Above view, something tells me I'm not gonna be putting groceries in the front trunk anymore:


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## mafosta (Dec 24, 2007)

this is gonna be cool


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Ok, got a bit sidetracked with some travel this weekend, but I wasn't going to bed tonight without some progress.


Removed the headlight motors, I'm gonna have to get out of the car to turn them on now. Oh, and hot air leaves here:


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Alright, shiat just got real. The project's gonna have to pause for a month or so because I just sold the house. Put an offer in on a property with a 3 bay shop big enough to park my 30' rv in with room. On acreage. Oh, and apparently there's a house there too.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

So the wife's banned me from working on the car until we're moved. On the up side, we've gotta be out of this house in like 2 weeks so the pause isn't as long as it could have been.

While the brain idles packing boxes, I've come to the conclusion that my axle solution sucks. I ordered more parts today. Stay tuned for a more eloquent solution. Oh, and when I was over in Seattle a bit ago, I ran into a parts yard that had 4 3.6l v8s. Now they've got 3. Dirt cheep and under 100k miles on it. Now I've got to move 3 engines. Maybe my timing was a bit off.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Finally in the new home. The shop is bigger than I remembered. I haven't measured it but it looks to be 50x50 by eye. Absolutely no storage in the shop so I'm hunting craigslist for cabinets. Gonna be another 2 weeks before everything is sorted out and I can get back to work.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Oo missed you'd bought a V8  

Jealous of your new shop!


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Yeah, couldn't help myself on the V8. The price was right. May pick up another when I'm back in Seattle. Too many bad ideas cookin now that I've been idle for a few weeks.


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## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

this is gonna be great 
keep up the work


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

What's this "gonna" you speak of. It's already great, now all I gotta do is tie all the parts I've accumulated into a functioning car. 

Spring is gonna rawk. Stay tuned, I've got a couple of twists planned for this story.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

So shortly, the /6 is gonna go on the bench and I'll deal with it later. There's no aftermaket for it and it's a nut I really wanna crack, but it's too much trouble to get the car running by spring. I picked up the new hardware this week. Say hello to my little friend, bad things are about to happen to it:


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*


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## MK2TDI (Feb 11, 2007)

Love the project :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:. Makes me miss my 73 914... Swapped out the original 2.0 for a 67 911s engine. Sold her 12 years ago  ... Still see her ocassionally. Was the same colour too. I have an Audi v8 that i've been wondering what to do with... Think I need another 914.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

All work and no fabrication makes rohar a dull boy.

Afraid I haven't been home/had free time in a bit. North Dakota for family, Seattle for work, parents came up from Florida etc. Anyway, that's behind me. Now that I'm sitting on the V8, I've gone through it and everything seems solid. Time to come up with a flywheel that'll work with this tranny. I'm off to the local wrecking yard then back to the machine shop with more cash in my pocket. Wish me luck.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

SCORE! VR6 flywheel and pressure plate in good condition for $50. Also came across a set of adjustable perches and springs for a MkIII golf for $35. Not sure what I'm gonna use them for, but they were there and the price was right. Now to remove the flexplate and do a bunch of measuring before machining.

Some days I think this project is never gonna get done, this is not one of those days.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Intrigued... 

Whats the VR6 flywheel for?


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Since there's few v8s with manual transmissions in the states, this one came with a flex plate. Somehow, I gotta make this work with the FWD 5 speed. I could shell out the money for the flywheel insert from 034 that's some real cash and I'm a CSOB. 

SO...

I'm taking a decent looking VR6 flywheel (because it's 10 bolt like the V8), tossing it on the lathe to relieve some metal then machining the starter ring off the flex plate. Put the two together and I've got a clutch solution for under $100.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Interesting idea. I heard the VR6 uses a different 10-bolt pattern to the V8 - I'd be interested to know if thats true or not. 

How does the diameter compare? The V8 uses a 240mm clutch compared to the VR6s 228 - I think the VR6 flywheel will be a little small to fit the V8's starter ring. 

I don't think the 034 insert fits the 3.6 flex-plate anyway - its designed for the ABZ iirc, so this or an OE fw are about the only options. 

Looking forward to your findings with this :thumbup:


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

I can confirm they're the same bolt pattern. I spent an hour with my favorite 80 year old machinist verifying everything. He doesn't let me get away with much, that's why you use old machinists.

Yes, the clutch is 228mm. I know I'm giving up a bit of friction going this direction, but it's an 1800lb car on 215/40/17s. The tires will break loose long before the clutch slips. I'm not worried about the starter ring. We're keeping the v8 flexplate/starter ring and removing everything from the flywheel that's in the way. Then I'll just stack them up on the crank flange. That'll leave me w/ most of a vr6 flywheel, vr6 pressure plate, audi tranny and a custom clutch to fit the audi shaft at the required diameter/thickness. All said and done I'm headed for about $200 for the whole mess. Compare that to the 034 solution and I'm feeling pretty good.

Something's gonna screw this plan up eventually, but that's the plan I'm taking for now.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Excellent  










Nice idea stacking them together :thumbup:

Given that there are clutch solutions for 500hp VRTs I don't think you'll have a problem at 228mm anyway.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

You stare at the VAG parts bin long enough, and drink enough beer, eventually it all makes sense


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Yeah lol :laugh: I need to go and find who said the VR6 was a different pattern to the V8 and poke them with a stick 

Oh, and mount a V8 transversely on a VR6 transmission


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

V8 engine on a VR6 tranny won't work quite as well. Different bellhousing. That can be resolved with a tig and a grinder.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Its been done  Can't find the picture right now though...


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Just because it has been done doesn't mean it should ever be done again. I mean really, Vanilla Ice has been done. I'm pretty sure none of us should ever do that again! 


...Ice Ice baby to go...


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

LOL! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

So it's been a while, some stuff has happened. Managed to get storeage built for the new shop but that doesn't help this project much. Also, came up with another chassis, probably more on that later. Fun part is the V8 is going in the new chassis so it's upward and onward with the V6. Probably better that way anyway as there's much to be done with this engine and the community can use what I do later. Few are playing with this lump. Lord knows I haven't before.

So today, in the sake of progress, I tear the intake manifold apart as it has to be mounted backwards to clear bodywork so the long runners are gonna have to be cut off to clear cooling pipes.

I knew it was a dual runner manifold, but I wasn't aware of how it worked until I split it. Look at that, the short runners (the ones I'm keeping) have their own butterflies. I'm thinking piss on a throttle boddy. Block off/cut off the long runners and use the butterflies for ITBish type set up.


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## syracusegli (Jan 22, 2005)

in for something really different :thumbup:


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

So everything went all sideways. I managed to snag an "almost running" 944 for $500. It's actually in pretty good shape. The "almost" part was just some electrical issues that have been resolved. This put me in a real corner as I had two engines and two cars that came with the wrong engines. I was planning on dropping the /8 in the 944 as a heavy car needs a big engine. As of today, that's no longer the plan. It's just too wide. So the /8 goes in the teener. There will be another thread at another day dealing with the /6 944.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Out with the old...


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Somehow that tranny looked a bit bigger on the other lump:










Merry Christmas and happy tuning!


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## FCP Euro (Sep 4, 2008)

Hell of a project. This is what having fun with swaps is all about, cant wait to see it finished. :beer:


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Slowly making some progress. The start of the passenger side motor mount.










No really, stop laughing. I'll make something of this ugly piece of steel yet.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Lookie here, passenger side motor mount stub all finished.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

So that's how you strap a big lump down:


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Is it solid mounted?  

I just got done with the two side mounts in my A4. On to the front one after tidying the motor up


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Almost. The cradle is bolted solid to the engine. Then the two little holes you see on the ends of the front cross bar are bolted to the chassis using 911 motor mounts:


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Ah ok  That makes it pretty easy to swap stuff in then :thumbup:


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

That's part of the reason I left the cradle on the /6. Motor swap can happen in under an hour if you're on your toes. I've got carts that fit the engines at height. Lift the car an inch, set it down on the carts, pull 4 bolts from the motor/tranny mounts, then use the cherry picker to lift the whole chassis off the engine. Grab the whole mess by the tranny and tug it out.

Thinking I should probably build a cradle for the I4 engines so I could compete in 3 classes in one day, just haven't made it there yet.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*



rohar said:


> Thinking I should probably build a cradle for the I4 engines so I could compete in 3 classes in one day, just haven't made it there yet.




Did you get any further with your hybrid flywheel?


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Still waiting on my machinist. Family and travel over the holidays have slowed him down a bit. Well, that and making a whole set of pistons for an experimental airplane that was ahead of me in the job schedule


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

[email protected]_Groton said:


> Hell of a project. This is what having fun with swaps is all about, cant wait to see it finished. :beer:


If I can get the energy together to get off the couch and back to the shop, we may see an engine mounted tonight.

Just noticed you're near Groton. Spent some of the worst years of my life on the sub base there. Had some of the best times in my life off base near there about 20 years ago 

Drove a 325 back then.

Suddenly, I miss the east coast.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Sonofagun! I managed to get the rest of the little pieces of steel cut and welded. Put the thing back on the engine and everything still fit so I obviously didn't warp it too much. It's back on the carts and ready to go under the car for a test fit. There's gonna be a marriage after the kids go to sleep.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Well that almost worked. The passenger side of the yoke ran in to the suspension ear. More cutting and welding tomorrow, kill me now.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

FINALLY! Got everything sorted. Here she is in her new home:


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## bimmerboy02 (Oct 2, 2005)

Very awesome! Just to help you a bit, 10v 90qs use a 228mm clutch with the correct splines for that tranny. Clutchnet or similar should make a sticky one.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Nice  You can even fit the dizzys :thumbup:


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

At under 2000lbs with only 215/45r 17s I'm pretty sure the clutch is gonna be the least of my problems, but I may as well go big. Thanks for the tip!


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Oh, and I'm tossing the dizzies. Not enough tuneability with the stock ECU and trying to make the twin dizzies work with anything else is a PITA. MSIII and CDI here I come. I'll probably mount the CDI units where the dizzies were though, just easier using the stock wire routing. I've got some ideas for some interesting dizzy block off plates with CDI mounts on them. Should be "interesting".


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Thats exactly what I was planning with mine, but using MSII and EDIS  Mount the coil packs on the end of the heads where the dizzys were and use the OE plug wires :thumbup: I might hack the Motronic to run coil packs initially to save a few ££s though, and then do MS later.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Hoping I can get the new tranny mounts done at lunch today. Sadly, work's a bit hectic so we'll see if that happens.

I'm gonna mount a tranny. Hehehe.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Steady now


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Ok, didn't happen at lunch. Got steel cut, but more cutting and welding to go. I'm really starting to hate welding. Never thought I'd write that, but it seems like miles of welds.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

The beginnings of a tranny mount. I know it's asymetrical, but so is the tranny so live with it:










It needs gussets, but I ran out of welding wire. Apparently, I wasn't paying attention.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

rohar said:


> Oh, and I'm tossing the dizzies. Not enough tuneability with the stock ECU and trying to make the twin dizzies work with anything else is a PITA. MSIII and CDI here I come. I'll probably mount the CDI units where the dizzies were though, just easier using the stock wire routing. I've got some ideas for some interesting dizzy block off plates with CDI mounts on them. Should be "interesting".


Rather than CDI you might want to consider getting the MS3X along with the MS3 and running LS coils. They are readily available at the junkyard, cheap and hotter than just about anything. AND they are plug and play with the MS3X and will work fired in waste spark mode if you don't have a cam signal for true sequential.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

I mounted a tranny:











No wait, I mounted a tranny.











I'm thinking next project is a lot of chassis cleanup and plumbing.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Looks good 

So is there a pair of mounts for the front cradle and another pair for the rear?


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Yup, 4 bolts hold the whole mess together. Scary as hell huh?


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Kinda convenient really


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

For me, it's awesome. While fabricating, engine/tranny goes in, then it comes out, then it goes in, then it comes out. Repeat until dead. It's best if you can do the insert/extract quickly.

Kinda like investment banking or sex. Strangely, I haven't lost interest yet.

Sadly, that was the joke.


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## 1.8TRabbit (Nov 15, 2004)

rohar said:


> Ok, got a bit sidetracked with some travel this weekend, but I wasn't going to bed tonight without some progress.
> 
> 
> Removed the headlight motors, I'm gonna have to get out of the car to turn them on now. Oh, and hot air leaves here:


Why not keep the fron t compartment intact and just custom fab a hood vent? Seems more logical than having it route out the side..


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Sanction. This one's gonna be a clubman and will see at least autocross time if not more. Venting through the hood is illegal downforce in most organizations. Silly, but true.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Rulez :banghead: Same reason I'm using a 3.6 in my A4 instead of a 4.2 ^ Its still within the 'capacity class' of the A4 body since the S4 had the 2.7TT


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Oh, I'll be tossed deep into GT, but I'm staying out of modified. Those bastards are a pack of wolves and I ain't got the chops.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Oh yeah I hear you on that. I'm trying to stick to modified road car for hillclimbing, rather than unlimited where I'd be competing with open-wheel ex-formula cars  The other discipline it will see is UK autocross which is actually grasstrack. In that I'm in unlimited for having Quattro so the engine doesn't matter 

Something that might be of interest to you - I discovered the other day that the 16V head will see roughly a 10% increase in flow solely from a 3-angle valve seat cut. I had to take the heads off mine anyway as it had sat with the inlet off for a while, so I'm porting them while they're off. I reckon with an ABT chip in the Motronic, and 10%+ increase in flow on the heads I might hit close to 300hp flywheel, which would be nice


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

rohar said:


> You stare at the VAG parts bin long enough, and drink enough beer, eventually it all makes sense


LOL, indeed.

Nice showing so far! 

I get the sneaking suspicion someone at some time told you "this can't be done". ..likely on the vortex :laugh:


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Heads are coming off shortly. Yes, 3 angle valve grind and using exhaust cams for intake. It's just 2 16vs stuck together, all the same old tricks apply. Kicking around a solid lifter conversion, but that'll most likely wait until after it's running.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

sdezego said:


> LOL, indeed.
> 
> Nice showing so far!
> 
> I get the sneaking suspicion someone at some time told you "this can't be done". ..likely on the vortex :laugh:


This isn't my first time down the water cooled 914 route, just my best. If anyone told me that, I ignored them so well I can't remember them. Now I've just gotta get the turn signals working on the 944 so I can get back to work on the teener.


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## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

rohar said:


> Oh, I'll be tossed deep into GT, but I'm staying out of modified. Those bastards are a pack of wolves and I ain't got the chops.


I love this biuld:heart:
awesome idea

but how in the world are you going to stay out of modified classes?
a guy I autoX with got tossed into modified with his vr mk2
and yours is just incredible
please explain for my learning:facepalm:


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Truth be told, I may not stay out of mod in SCCA, but that's just 1 of many racing organizations in the area. Either way, that downforce is the difference between CMod and AMod. I'm just trying to keep it as low on the scale as possible with the engine/chassis I've got.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

rohar said:


> Heads are coming off shortly. Yes, 3 angle valve grind and using exhaust cams for intake. It's just 2 16vs stuck together, all the same old tricks apply. Kicking around a solid lifter conversion, but that'll most likely wait until after it's running.


Apparently ABH / ABZ cams are the best for the 3.6. Not found any yet, but I'm sure some will turn up before I put it back together 

Pic for inspiration:










:beer:


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

So the engine/tranny is out again. Still a little clean up to do on the mounts. A couple of diagonals on the tranny mount and some gussets but nothing too severe. Every time I pull it out of the car all I can think is "that might be a little big".










I'm not putting it back until I'm ready to fire it. In the interim, time to clean up the chassis starting with the engine bay:


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Meh, got sidetracked. Had to build one of these for the wife. You know the drill, happy wife happy life. On the upside, all her crap is out of my shop:










The v8 is going up on the shelf for modifications later. I gotta drive and the v6 is the shortest path to there. Ordered a new flywheel Friday w/ a 60-2 trigger built in (later v6 model). I wasn't happy with the motor mounts I cut earlier, so this happened:


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Blasting today. Lots and lots of blasting. None of the cancer is too deep, but it's everywhere...


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## syracusegli (Jan 22, 2005)

thats a tall shed for the wife, why so tall?


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Hay loft. Apparently it goes with the animals. What would I know, I build things and she grows things. 

You don't wanna know how much lumber I had to carry up that hill so the loft could support 7 tons of hay. Couldn't drive up there, with the rain the clay got slick as snot.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

...still blasting. What fun. The new flywheel appeared today, don't have to worry about a trigger wheel for the MSIII anymore.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Sorry for the idleness in this thread, I kinda got distracted. Another car followed me home:










Spent the last few months prepping it as a track toy. Her first day out was a DE at SCR last weekend. Goes like snot. It was happily playing with the Pro-3 cars and holding it's own.

Now, back on the hunt with the teener...


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

So playing around with the 944 really set me back. If it wasn't for that thing, the teener would probably be up and running on the v6 as it's a dead simple engine. Now that winter's comming, I've got 5 months of no driving so the heck with the v6. I tossed it out so I wouldn't be tempted to go down that path again.

Modified the engine yoke to fit the V8










With the oil pan at the same height as the body pan, it sits nice and low:










I moved the engine/tranny 2" forward. This gives me a 4.5 degree axle deflection which is well within limits and moves the CG a bit forward. This'll also allow me to put most of the steel I removed from the rear trunk back:










Next up: get measurements done for custom axles.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

rohar said:


> the heck with the v6. I tossed it out so I wouldn't be tempted to go down that path again.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

So I managed to get all the axle measurements done yesterday. What a PITA. Measure all the changes you did to the OE setup, do some geometry on the wall with a sharpie, cut a stock axle in half and hose clamp it to a piece of angle iron to verify. bolt it in, verify fit, lift the car so it goes to fully extended. Verify fit.

After all that, 18.5" exactly. Darnit, they make 18.75 off the shelf. Guess that means more phone calls and more $$$.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Can you shorten those adapters you have mounted to the trans in the previous pictures?


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Nope. That was my first thought too. The skiny one doesn't have 1/4" to give. At it's thinnest, it's only 1/4" thick now.


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## MrDave (Jul 26, 2002)

Shift your engine/trans over 1/4" to the right, only make 1 custom axle.
Assume weight balance offset by driver's weight.


-Dave


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

I shoulda picked up a tranny with 100mm flanges (audi makes them) instead of these honkin 114mm flanges. Then I'd only have had to machine one offset spacer and use 944 axles with 5 lug rear hubs. Too deep in now.


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## sickmind (Dec 10, 2003)

Is it possible to swap the flanges ? On the O2A and O2J VW transaxles you can swap out the large flanges that come on the later ones with the earlier 100 mm flanges . Just a thought .


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

On these toys, I'm afraid it's not that simple. The flange and the radial shaft are one unit so it's almost a complete diff teardown to do it.

Problem solved though. Turns out swayaway axles have 3" splines. I only need 2" so I'll just grab a pair of 18 3/4" shafts, trim an eigth from each end and re-groove for the snap rings. 10 minutes on the lathe and bingo.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

With that piece of fabrication in the bag, off to the last few things that need to be destroyed before I turn the corner to putting it back together in earnest:










All the tar crap comes off the pan in the passenger compartment. Luckily very little rust. Hoping to have everything cleared out so I can blast both trunks, the engine bay and the passenger compartment Saturday. Hopefully I'll have primer on it Sunday.


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Well go figure, break in the rain today! The belly pan and trunk are now completely rust free. Probably the only example of a 914 in that state in the country.

While I was there, I tore the pedal box out as it's not gonna work and even banged out a couple of dents out of the floor where some DAPO put a jack in the wrong spot.

I'm done with bodywork for a while.

Stainless fuel lines and intake manifold gaskets will be here early next week. Time to start putting the old beast back together.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

:thumbup:


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## rohar (May 19, 2001)

Forgot about the 24 hour cure time on the rust converter (not that I needed it, but you can't be too carefull on these old beasts). Pushed the schedule back a day. Half the pan is now in primer, the other half will be done tonight. No glory here, but it had to be done.


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