# 3.6 motor in MK2



## Fungusamungus (Dec 30, 2013)

Starting to do research on my next build. What Crossmembers to use with the 36 motor?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Rear: Corrado/B3/B4/Mk3
Front: Corrado SLC

Just like any old VR6 swap from that point of view.


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## Fungusamungus (Dec 30, 2013)

I have those parts. Which trans mount to use? Which axles? Standard? No plus suspension, mk2 control arms, corrado g60 spindles! Girling 60's I have a vr car set up with this now.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

With an o2a just use what you are using now. In my mk3 I am using the o2a with all std mounts, mk2 arms and tie rods and mk2 length driveshafts. 

The front motormount bracket needs a small mod to fit the big oil cooler or swap to the smaller 2.8 ones. 

I dont think there are any off the shelf downpipes for these yet.


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## MK3.OT (May 4, 2010)

need_a_VR6 said:


> With an o2a just use what you are using now. In my mk3 I am using the o2a with all std mounts, mk2 arms and tie rods and mk2 length driveshafts.
> 
> The front motormount bracket needs a small mod to fit the big oil cooler or swap to the smaller 2.8 ones.
> 
> I dont think there are any off the shelf downpipes for these yet.


Looking forward to Seeing your VR3.6


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

There is a thread around somewhere.


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## #1~STUNNA (May 4, 2002)

Just curious do they have cams for the 3.6 yet?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Nothing specific that I know of. VVT gears are just like the Mk5 R and the 06 up TT, so those cams might also work. Can't track down anyone that's tried though.


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## #1~STUNNA (May 4, 2002)

Im surprise Schrick hasn't try a attemped to make cams for this engine at least a 268. I remember, I met you and another buddy of yours moons ago in e-town ready to go down the track had blast that day, but back to the topic. I still have my mk2 VR6 been out the seen for quit bit you know the deal get married wife kids blah... blah...blah... projects get put on time out. I'm still debating whether to do a r32 or a 3.6 swap to be honest, I really wanna do a 3.6 but the r32 has more after market products. I think both engine are a beast but the 3.6 mann... those exhaust ports on those heads made me go --> and I think a good 300-350whp NA would be sweet let's not even talk about turbo especially in a mk2. I was just wondering if there's any shop with CNC Machine that can make a cam profile for this block?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Cam making is *hard* and beyond the capability of most machine shops. Even many cam grinders don't want to touch this one due the complexity of the valve train (it's essentially designing a profile with four different lobes due to the chamber angles). Add to that low/no volume and no one is really in it. I am going to change my exhaust cam gear to the 11deg style and try and run Mk4 R32 cams in my motor and see what happens. If kaboom, at least I have spares!

On the R32 vs 3.6.. I took the 3.2 out of my car to put the 3.6 in, it's proven past 300whp with just simple parts and it's never bad to start with the biggest motor you can. The challenge is all the custom parts along the way if you dont' want to run FSI.


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## mattthethug (Apr 10, 2008)

Dude in a corrado put down 359whp with just intake, tune, and exhaust. His looked like it came from the factory. Plus cruise control and everything worked. 

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

mattthethug said:


> Dude in a corrado put down 359whp with just intake, tune, and exhaust. His looked like it came from the factory. Plus cruise control and everything worked.
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


Not saying it didn't happen, but that's well past what people have put down with 2wd 3.6's as a norm. Anyone have links to a dyno sheet?


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## #1~STUNNA (May 4, 2002)

^^x2 I would like to see a dyno sheet as well.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

If that dyno is accurate, I'd be pissed to be below 375whp... even with happy dyno numbers the track will tell the story!


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## #1~STUNNA (May 4, 2002)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Cam making is *hard* and beyond the capability of most machine shops. Even many cam grinders don't want to touch this one due the complexity of the valve train (it's essentially designing a profile with four different lobes due to the chamber angles). Add to that low/no volume and no one is really in it. I am going to change my exhaust cam gear to the 11deg style and try and run Mk4 R32 cams in my motor and see what happens. If kaboom, at least I have spares!
> 
> On the R32 vs 3.6.. I took the 3.2 out of my car to put the 3.6 in, it's proven past 300whp with just simple parts and it's never bad to start with the biggest motor you can. The challenge is all the custom parts along the way if you dont' want to run FSI.


-Paul had some question's for you on the 3.6 swap. Will the 3.6 bolt into the o2a tranny? can I still use the same slc cross member im using now on 12v VR6 for the 3.6? where did you source your 3.6 and what are the prices? Assuming to do a complete swap I would need longblock wiring hardness,ecu, do I need the shifter as well etc.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Yes bolts right up to the 02A, I am using a stock 02A just with the 02J shifter setup, but that is totally optional. 

The front motor mount bracket needs to be cut and welded if you want to use the 3.6 oil cooler. I just used a spacer behind it and am running no oil cooler. A stock 2.8 cooler would still fit, same issue is on the R32 oil cooler with a Mk3. 

I have a few motors from various sources, some local, some not. These motors have a tendency to break the motor mount bracket boss on the pass side during a front-ender. This totals the motor when using it in a Mk4 or later. Perfect for a Mk3 as long as it's not cracked through to the passage behind it. Expect to pay 1k-2k for a longblock, quite a bit more with manifolds as the intakes generally get mangled in a crash as well. All of mine are 06's and needed upgraded oil pump bolts. One of mine was a factory reman that didn't have it's headbolts tightened down :screwy: In any case, motors are out there, and pretty common.

To do the swap with FSI you need the whole motor incl hpfp setup, wiring harness, pedal setup swapped over, etc. I don't have that patience and I need the adjustability long term. Tough making parts for it (manifolds, etc) but in the end I think that's the way to go. I have had the motor in my car for over three years now.. and I'm still not done! As you said, wife, kids, etc!

Any more questions let me know. There's some detail in a thread I put in the NA forum.


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## #1~STUNNA (May 4, 2002)

Paul pardon my lack of knowledge on this motor but what is HPFP?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Sorry HPFP = high pressure fuel pump, needed to run the FSI. I have that removed and blocked off. Injectors are still in the head as plugs only.


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## #1~STUNNA (May 4, 2002)

Can you install one of those walbro fuel pumps like the turbo guys do to make it work? Since you eliminated yours did you loose hp or it really didn't affect hp.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

You need a pump that flows enough for 300whp at 6bar. Not an easy feat. You still need the hpfp, stock injectors run over 1000psi. 

Power.. dont know yet but I am on a custom manifold w regular injectors.


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## #1~STUNNA (May 4, 2002)

It seems in other words that with the 3.6 one will need a kick ass fuel system to run at full steam. You think one of these bad boy will take care of the stock injectors?

http://www.usrallyteam.com/bmz_cache/3/3025ce3ab14451487b8d8f42e4b6eef5.image.733x550.jpg


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I am going to start the car on 42s then switch to the ID 1k's. Want plenty of headroom on e85. 

Stock injectors on the fsi are a totally different thing. 120v triggered.


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## #1~STUNNA (May 4, 2002)

Can't wait to see this beast in action!:thumbup:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Me more than anyone!


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## #1~STUNNA (May 4, 2002)

Well..... come on hurry mannnn!:thumbup::laugh:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I would go faster but its tuning season and the dailies have some deferred maint i put off during the deeps of winter.


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## Fungusamungus (Dec 30, 2013)

I heard that you can use mk4 fuel pump, or is that the filter that you use. 6 bar FPR. The mechanical pump then cranks out the 1000 psi needed.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

None of the stock pumps (at least alone) will flow 300whp at 6bar. Now the FSI pump might be able to help that a bit if it can pull some suction. The only way to know is measure the pressure between the in tank pump and the HPFP (which I'm not sure people do).


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## #1~STUNNA (May 4, 2002)

Any progress?


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## Fungusamungus (Dec 30, 2013)

*Mine is.*

91 jetta received 25mm MC. Pulled a grey mk3 dash today.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I kicked mine after I couldn't get a tie rod end off.eace:


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## TyphoonSushi (Sep 19, 2013)

Guys,
Im glad that I found this thread as I am new in the VW family. I have an '09 CC 3.6 4Motion and trying to find out what else I can do for this car to perform as it is heavy and from what I have heard is that there are not much out there..


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## volks76 (Dec 8, 2004)

So one if the guys found a regrind available at colt cams in aldergrove canada 
Then someone also mentioned that the lobes on stock cams are pressed on so not sure if u want to be regrinding them 
I was talking to another fellow he was saying getting cams made bring in the stock ones and they will make new ones with the lift and duration u want 
There are lots of guys looking
For a bit more power 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Can you take a pic? The 3.6 manifolds and 3.2 manifolds I have are completely different. The 3.6s are more like the 12v ones at the outlet.


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## DBVeeDB (Aug 3, 2007)

Sure, what exactly would you like a pic of?

Oem mkv r32 down pipes on top, oem 3.6 passat on bottom





3.6 manis. I think they are very similar to 3.2, but different drillings/mounting





Mounted up, just like stock





Before I did the swap I saw the mani to dp gasket for the 3.6/3.2 were the same part #. And once I got my hands on the r32 setup, I could tell the flanges were identical as was their orientation.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Never had a set of mk5 r32 manifolds. Totally different from the 2.8/3.2 ones from the mk4.


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## 2003gtivr62.8liter (Sep 1, 2009)

Why not do the Eurospec 3.2/3.6 swap. You retain the R head so turbo set ups are easy to find.


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## DBVeeDB (Aug 3, 2007)

2003gtivr62.8liter said:


> Why not do the Eurospec 3.2/3.6 swap. You retain the R head so turbo set ups are easy to find.


It's a nice swap. But pretty expensive I think. 8-10k just for the motor



need_a_VR6 said:


> Never had a set of mk5 r32 manifolds. Totally different from the 2.8/3.2 ones from the mk4.


Sorry, neither of us specified the generation.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Good to know. The usp piece can make it easier for the swap guys. Not crazy about the design but its something. 

The one I got made for my mk3


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## #1~STUNNA (May 4, 2002)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Good to know. The usp piece can make it easier for the swap guys. Not crazy about the design but its something.
> 
> The one I got made for my mk3


the DP is it 2.5 or 3"? looks good btw:thumbup:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

2-1/8 to secret to 3.5" outlet.


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## #1~STUNNA (May 4, 2002)

need_a_VR6 said:


> 2-1/8 to secret to 3.5" outlet.


Damn... that's gonna sound sweet! any plans on throwing some N02 in the mix?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Probably not. Unless it's too slow!


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## #1~STUNNA (May 4, 2002)

I doubt it'll be slow... but man All motor 3.6 w/NOS Woo.. it will be sweet


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## vToe (Oct 19, 2003)

In for science. Starting a 3.6 swap myself. :thumbup:

-Vito


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## r32topher (Apr 14, 2012)

I am currently planning a 3.6 swap in my project and I will certainly pass the info along regarding the 3.2 cams fitting in the 3.6 head. I won't need the HPFP cam lobe either so I am keeping my fingers crossed. Do any of you 3.6 guys know the max bore size for the 3.6 block??

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## vToe (Oct 19, 2003)

I was told by Denon that the 3.6 cams are different but haven't confirmed myself either. I have stock pair of 3.2 laying around. Eurospec was planning a 4.2l option with the 3.6 block but then killed it cause of the already astronomical price of their swap option. None the less I believe they had a bored out motor. 

-Vito


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Using simple measurements the intake cam is identical. The exhaust cam is different than the mk4 r32 but might be same basic design as mk5 r32. Vvt gears are same as 08 r32.


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## vToe (Oct 19, 2003)

So I found someone who has a stock pair of mk5 R32 cams that's willing to let me hang on to them for a little bit. The quick plan was to do some 'simple' as you called in measurements of them. My understanding the bore centers of the cylinders are the same from the 3.2 to 3.6, but from what Ron from Denon just told me is that the head geometry of the valves is different and Schrick wont isnt interested in making any. I dont doubt that but I also would prefer to hear something from Schrick directly and not Ron. Obviously things dont get made if there's not enough interest so making some noise and trying to get their attention isn't a bad thing. I reached out to them via email and will see what they say. :beer:


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## r32topher (Apr 14, 2012)

How long would you need the cams for ? I have a set you can play with for a while. Also anyone know the diffrence from the early 3.6 to current I noticed on the newer ones the intake manifold got " nicer" I know Eurospec uses a 100 mm custom crank to get some more displacement if they could get to 4.2 there must be lots of room in the cylinders to work with.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Valve angles didnt seem different but I didnt measure that specifically. Thats pretty easy to check.


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## vToe (Oct 19, 2003)

r32topher said:


> How long would you need the cams for ? I have a set you can play with for a while. Also anyone know the diffrence from the early 3.6 to current I noticed on the newer ones the intake manifold got " nicer" I know Eurospec uses a 100 mm custom crank to get some more displacement if they could get to 4.2 there must be lots of room in the cylinders to work with.


Thanks for the offer. Gotta love the VW community. Someone was kind enough to let me hang onto another set for a bit. Just got them yesterday.










Also here's a good thread on the topic on different manifolds available for the 3.6. The concensious from people running them and UM tunning them is that the one variable length as VW calls them with the changeover valve is the best manifold. The later model ones like the 2009 BWS I have a split upper/lower design. The new ones have the same split but also have a type of changeover design in the plenum. 

Intake Manifold Comparison 3.6FSI




need_a_VR6 said:


> Valve angles didnt seem different but I didnt measure that specifically. Thats pretty easy to check.


I'm just not sure I have the right tools to measure the valve angles. I only have a typical angle tool. I'd think I'd have to pull a valve and place something in there to protrude and measure? Is there a better way? I have a lot going on. Tackling the wiring harness next week and also trying to figure out a fueling upgrade solution for these guys. I'll try to get to measuring over the next 2 weeks. 











Sorry to be jacking this thread. There needs to be a good 3.6fsi swap info thread for all this...


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

If you have the cams and lifters out you can do the valve angle with a big protractor and a piece of tubing, drinking straw, etc that will fit over the valve tip.


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## 92_MK_2 (Oct 11, 2010)

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