# Volkswagen I.D. Crozz Coming To U.S. In 2020



## vb22 (Jul 27, 2017)

> Will be followed in 2022 by the I.D. Buzz acting as a spiritual successor of the Microbus.
> 
> Originally unveiled in April at Auto Shanghai and then updated for the Frankfurt Motor Show in September, the Volkswagen I.D. Crozz will evolve into a production version in the years to come, likely with a different name. It will be the first U.S.-bound VW from the company’s new era of electric vehicles, which will also include a road-going counterpart of the I.D. Buzz. The latter will hit dealerships across the United States in 2022 to serve as a spiritual successor of the iconic Microbus. The two concepts, together with the I.D. from last year, have now come together for the first time in North America on the occasion of the 2017 Los Angeles Auto Show.
> 
> ...


*More: Volkswagen ID Forum*​
https://www.motor1.com/news/222850/vw-id-crozz-us-2020/


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

Ok: why in the hell is VW showing the T-Roc in LA when they have said over and over again that we're not getting it!? 

(Thread jack!)


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## vb22 (Jul 27, 2017)




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## spoonie (Dec 12, 2001)

looks... really heavy.


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## Ross1013 (May 25, 2012)

Wonder if this will be the Arteon AllTrack I was pining for in the other thread.


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## ZPayne (Jan 8, 2014)

silverspeedbuggy said:


> Ok: why in the hell is VW showing the T-Roc in LA when they have said over and over again that we're not getting it!?
> 
> (Thread jack!)


Because they have some sort of fetish about teasing the US market. Sort of like how the Mk7 Golf R wagon was unveiled at the LA auto show in 2015...


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## Ryukein (Dec 10, 2006)

silverspeedbuggy said:


> Ok: why in the hell is VW showing the T-Roc in LA when they have said over and over again that we're not getting it!?
> 
> (Thread jack!)


Those photos are from the Frankfurt auto show.

Here's VW's press release, since it isn't in this thread...



> STRIKING I.D. CROZZ CONCEPT VEHICLE PREVIEWS VOLKSWAGEN'S NEW COMPACT ELECTRIC SUV, DUE TO LAUNCH IN 2020
> 
> Nov 28, 2017
> 
> ...


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## ClownCar (Feb 16, 1999)

If those silver things are wiper arms, then they are pretty cool looking wiper arms.


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## vb22 (Jul 27, 2017)




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## vb22 (Jul 27, 2017)

*2020VW All Electric AWD Crossover Takes Aim at Tesla (I.D. CROZZ)*



> VW All Electric Crossover Takes Aim at Tesla (I.D. CROZZ) Debut from LA. It's a midsize crossover with about 300 hp and about 300 miles of range that is coming in 2020 for a price of a current midsize SUV/Crossover


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## Yuppie Scum (Mar 23, 2014)

vb22 said:


>


Looks great in video! Tesla is in trouble.


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

silverspeedbuggy said:


> Ok: why in the hell is VW showing the T-Roc in LA when they have said over and over again that we're not getting it!?
> 
> (Thread jack!)





Ryukein said:


> Those photos are from the Frankfurt auto show.


Old man yells at cloud!


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## vb22 (Jul 27, 2017)

*2017 LA AUTO SHOW l VOLKSWAGEN l ID FAMILY REVEAL l Press Conference l Full Event*



> 2017 LA AUTO SHOW l VOLKSWAGEN l 'Moving People People Forward' Full Event (ENG). Volkswagen Group of America revealed today it will introduce an all-new electric compact sport-utility vehicle in 2020 based on the I.D. CROZZ concept vehicle, which made its North American debut at the 2017 Los Angeles Auto Show. The all-electric compact SUV is expected to precede the revival of the iconic Volkswagen Bus in 2022, with a vehicle based on the I.D. BUZZ concept.
> 
> “The I.D. CROZZ-based electric vehicle will be an affordable and stylish electric SUV—and there is more to come!” said Hinrich J. Woebcken, President and CEO, Volkswagen Group of America. “The I.D. CROZZ and the I.D. BUZZ will help Volkswagen to kick off an EV revolution in the United States. All of our I.D. concept cars demonstrate the inherent flexibility, driving range and smart design that can serve the needs of 21st century drivers.”
> 
> The I.D. CROZZ and I.D. BUZZ, along with the original Volkswagen I.D. concept vehicle, appeared together for the first time in North America today. The modular electric platform the three vehicles share will underpin all future Volkswagen-branded EVs, and make possible Volkswagen’s goal to build 15 different VW EVs globally by 2025.


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## Air and water do mix (Aug 5, 2004)

Yuppie Scum said:


> Looks great in video! Tesla is in trouble.


Tesla may very well be in trouble, but not because of Volkswagen. They have plenty of brand recognition and they have goodwill that VW doesn't, especially after dieselgate. :beer:

That is not to say that VW can't sell a lot of electric cars, even in the U.S. (they very well might) but it doesn't put Tesla in trouble. Being a startup in an expensive industry is what keeps Tesla in trouble. I hope they can do well in the future, but there are still many hurdles for them to jump, the biggest of which is likely full production/sales of the Model 3. 



I just can't wait until we see more prototypes that are more realistic for production and they drop the stupid ID names, especially "ID Crozz" and "ID Buzz". :facepalm:


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## Mike! (Jun 18, 2002)

Whoever came up with "Crozz" should face ___________ (insert punishment here... I don't care... it's just bad)










Product idea is good though.


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## Yuppie Scum (Mar 23, 2014)

Why aren't we getting the golf-y one?


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## Air and water do mix (Aug 5, 2004)

Yuppie Scum said:


> Why aren't we getting the golf-y one?


Aren't we getting it? I thought we were.


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## smetzger (Oct 21, 2004)

Agreed. Why not call it 'The Thing'.



Mike! said:


> Whoever came up with "Crozz" should face ___________ (insert punishment here... I don't care... it's just bad)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Uber Wagon (Dec 9, 2003)

vb22 said:


>


:thumbup: Looks great. I just hope that Senate don't kill the EV tax rebates this year tho. (Thread jack )


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## baboondumdum (Apr 15, 2016)

Worth the wait IMO. But I'd like a version with a more conventional driver's steering wheel, especially when the odds are full autonomous vehicles won't be ready either technologically or legislatively.


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## Air and water do mix (Aug 5, 2004)

smetzger said:


> Agreed. Why not call it 'The Thing'.


Firstly because it has absolutely nothing in common with it other than 4-door and "off road". 

Secondly because the U.S. is the only place where it was called that. It was known as The Safari or Trekker in the rest of the world. Feel free to insert your own Mr. Spock jokes, but I'm not doin' it!  




baboondumdum said:


> Worth the wait IMO. But I'd like a version with a more conventional driver's steering wheel, especially when the odds are full autonomous vehicles won't be ready either technologically or legislatively.


Don't expect much of that interior to make it to production, certainly not the wheel, _almost_ certainly not the seats but maybe some facsimile of the dash. :beer:

That kind of thing is why I want to see prototypes running around. :thumbup:


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## GoFaster (Jun 18, 1999)

To me, this looks ungainly; the proportions are wrong. Fortunately, in addition to the above, there are more clues that this is still a concept vehicle, it isn't production ready. The real one will have mirrors, and door handles, and a B pillar (for side impact). I sure hope the wheels and tires will be more sensible (read: smaller) sizes. I sure hope the steering wheel is round or close to it. Steering column looks really awkward.

Concept vehicles frequently have exaggerated proportions and features.


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## bzcat (Nov 26, 2001)

Got to stretched my legs in the ID Buzz. It is a lot bigger than I expected.

Here are some potato cam shots


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## Seabird (Feb 8, 2002)

To me this looks like a concept from 1992.







Maybe it's the blacked out roof and pillars over the red bodywork.


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## 2000JettaGLXVR6 (Oct 17, 2002)

What's with the pop-up lidar? Bogus.


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## 2 doors (Jun 18, 2003)

Of these three, the red one is the one I like the least. Only 4 seats? Concept car nonsense. If the Buzz can seat 6 it wins. The hatch looks like a small hatch. The swoopy coupe CUV look has always been and will always be a stupid idea perpetuated by the Germans.


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## Car Problems (Jan 22, 2014)

I said it before and Ill say it again never believe that a VW model is coming to the US unless its on the showroom floor.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

1990s SUV -> 2000s CUV -> crossovers -> 2010s hi/po SUV/CUVs, coupe+convertibles variants -> -> -> 2020s normal sedans? Its like a slow devolution back to regular cars


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## HI SPEED (Sep 3, 2004)

If they need to make this ugly abortion to make the bus then so be it.


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

2 doors said:


> The hatch looks like a small hatch.


It has the interior space of a Passat.


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## vb22 (Jul 27, 2017)

*Upcoming VW I.D Cross Rendered In Production Guise*


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## chucchinchilla (Dec 25, 2004)

^So A Golf R nose, sedan side, and a backpack on the rear w/Scirocco lights.


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## Air and water do mix (Aug 5, 2004)

Man, I knew it'd be toned down, but if those are official renderings for this car they went too far. Of course they'll still have the ID and ID Buzz to possibly be on the wilder end of the spectrum. This one may simply be for the introverts. 

I'd like to see the interior now.


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## dieselraver (Nov 11, 2007)

bzcat said:


>



I'd love to know what happens when people drop coins and other "stuff" into the tracks and the chairs don't move back and forth... 
#parentingeye


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## FastGTi (Feb 16, 1999)

Air and water do mix said:


> Man, I knew it'd be toned down, but if those are official renderings for this car they went too far. Of course they'll still have the ID and ID Buzz to possibly be on the wilder end of the spectrum. This one may simply be for the introverts.
> 
> I'd like to see the interior now.


Those are just an awful frankenstein hack job.


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## AdrockMK2 (Apr 11, 2005)

FastGTi said:


> Those are just an awful frankenstein hack job.


I sure hope so! these are brutal.


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

The ID Crozz to be produced in Chattanooga in 2022.

https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/stories/manufacturing-e-cars-on-three-continents-4566

Note that the same article confirms the Buzz for US sale.


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

Seabird said:


> To me this looks like a concept from 1992.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hello Model X


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

vb22 said:


>


that looks a little better


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## VWAudiRally (Feb 3, 2006)

vb22 said:


>


Isn't this electric? What are the tailpipes for?


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## GoFaster (Jun 18, 1999)

That's just a crap rendering. Stop quoting it. I will just about guarantee that the overall styling will be closer to the concept vehicle than it is to a butchered Golf 7 ... and it won't have tailpipes!

Take the concept vehicle ... add outside side-view mirrors ... add door handles of some sort ... make the doors open the normal way (the concept-vehicle builders love the clamshell door concept but it generally isn't realistic for production) ... maybe add frames around the windows as opposed to the frameless concept ... maybe use more sensible wheel and tire sizes, at least on the lesser models ... and there you go.


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

VWAudiRally said:


> Isn't this electric? What are the tailpipes for?


To be fair, they are unusually small.


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## smoothsix (Jun 19, 2001)

Didn't realize this was originally from 2017. Was gonna say, they'll beat the Model Y to the punch! 

Wow, that render's tail looks like an e63 6 series with a bit of an extra muffin top. 

"2020" means "2022 production".. that's the VW I know and love! :laugh:


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

baboondumdum said:


> Worth the wait IMO. But I'd like a version with a more conventional driver's steering wheel, especially when the odds are full autonomous vehicles won't be ready either technologically or legislatively.


Seeing that as I'm closing in on 60, that's good news, because it will be a cold day in Hell before I would ever be interested in an autonomous car. That aside, my biggest concern about VW's early EVs (such as this "Crozz) is that we'll see a ridiculously high sticker price PLUS a battery that'll cost $20K to replace once it's shot. Then, too few charging stations to make long road trips feasible. I'm not into public transportation. At my age, I'm seriously considering buying 2 of VW's last gas cars within the next 10 years or so to last me until my Earthly exit.


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## GoFaster (Jun 18, 1999)

It's known that the ID hatchback (that some journalists have already driven, in camouflaged form) has a conventional steering wheel.

So will the others. The odd-shaped retracting design is concept-vehicle self-driving fantasy.


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## smoothsix (Jun 19, 2001)

fiftysomething said:


> Seeing that as I'm closing in on 60, that's good news, because it will be a cold day in Hell before I would ever be interested in an autonomous car. That aside, my biggest concern about VW's early EVs (such as this "Crozz) is that we'll see a ridiculously high sticker price PLUS a battery that'll cost $20K to replace once it's shot. Then, too few charging stations to make long road trips feasible. I'm not into public transportation. At my age, I'm seriously considering buying 2 of VW's last gas cars within the next 10 years or so to last me until my Earthly exit.


What does public transit have to do with anything?  

Meanwhile, my dad will be 80 this year, he just bought a Model S a couple years back and swears he'll never buy another gas car again


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## 2000JettaGLXVR6 (Oct 17, 2002)

vb22 said:


>


Why are you posing poorly butchered rendered photos from as "Upcoming VW I.D Cross Rendered In Production Guise"


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## worth_fixing (Dec 23, 2009)

wow.

just. that's a horrible name...but i mean, they just pushed the boundries of stylistic diarrhea so...


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

smoothsix said:


> What does public transit have to do with anything?



There are people out there already forecasting the complete outlawing of ICE cars by 2050, and furthermore, that 95% of people will no longer own their own car but rather order an autonomous vehicle to arrive at their doorstep. Like an airport shuttle service or a City Bus today, you may have to share rides with complete strangers if you're on the same "route." 
No thanks. I like the independence of driving MYSELF wherever I want to go.


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## R32kid (Dec 22, 2004)

Username checks out. 



fiftysomething said:


> smoothsix said:
> 
> 
> > What does public transit have to do with anything? <img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/confused.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Confused" class="inlineimg" />
> ...


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## NeverEnoughCars (Aug 2, 2013)

fiftysomething said:


> Seeing that as I'm closing in on 60,


Joined in 2003.
User name fiftysomething.
Currently 2019.
Just now closing in on 60.
LOL


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## WLFIE (Jan 15, 2019)

God, I can't stand the coupe SUV thing. Whenever I see a GLC/GLE coupe or X4 or X6 driving around, I chuckle. They couldn't have just bought the regular version. Oh no. They just had to buy the one with the big dumpy fat ass to stand out in the Whole Foods parking lot.


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## HI SPEED (Sep 3, 2004)

Why don't they bring the van first? First VW product in years everyone is foaming at the mouth to run out and buy. No body is pining to drive around a weird robot turtle, elephantitus, GTI, CUV, "coupe". :banghead:


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## SoCalDubber (Jul 21, 2004)

dieselraver said:


> I'd love to know what happens when people drop coins and other "stuff" into the tracks and the chairs don't move back and forth...
> #parentingeye


See also: Buick Enclave / GMC Acadia.


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## B_artman (Jul 28, 2001)

HI SPEED said:


> Why don't they bring the van first? First VW product in years everyone is foaming at the mouth to run out and buy. No body is pining to drive around a weird robot turtle, elephantitus, GTI, CUV, "coupe". :banghead:


counter point: launch the crappy ones first and let the SUV/Coupe loving lemmings market beta test/perfect the technology, and apply the learnings to the bus just in time for me to purchase to replace our Mazda 5! yes yes.. thats it!!! :laugh::thumbup:


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## Car Problems (Jan 22, 2014)

WLFIE said:


> God, I can't stand the coupe SUV thing. Whenever I see a GLC/GLE coupe or X4 or X6 driving around, I chuckle. They couldn't have just bought the regular version. Oh no. They just had to buy the one with the big dumpy fat ass to stand out in the Whole Foods parking lot.


It's so ugly every stay at home /rich guys wife will have one.


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## Yuppie Scum (Mar 23, 2014)

https://www.motor1.com/news/362267/vw-id-crozz-spied-first-time/










Looks like they’ve moved away from the “coupe” design to a more traditional crossover profile, unless the spoiler is obscuring the profile. If they can really deliver this at model 3 pricing, it’s a pretty compelling package.


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

Damn, that looks nice. :thumbup:


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

When is the Model 3 "SUV" (Model Y I think?) supposed to come out? Are there other electric SUVs coming in the next year? I have not been following this market well, so I have little knowledge of what's coming. Sure there's the e-Tron, but it's super pricey, and I'm wondering if VW will have the first "affordable" electric SUV on the market.


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

silverspeedbuggy said:


> When is the Model 3 "SUV" (Model Y I think?) supposed to come out? Are there other electric SUVs coming in the next year? I have not been following this market well, so I have little knowledge of what's coming. Sure there's the e-Tron, but it's super pricey, and I'm wondering if VW will have the first "affordable" electric SUV on the market.


Hyundai Kona EV?


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

Hajduk said:


> Hyundai Kona EV?


Ah yes. Much smaller than the Crozz/Tesla, but allowable. 

Building more on this: I think VW made a smart decision with bringing the SUV to us first (vs. a sedan or hatch). It's like they have an actual strategy (for once) for this one and our market.


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## bzcat (Nov 26, 2001)

silverspeedbuggy said:


> When is the Model 3 "SUV" (Model Y I think?) supposed to come out? Are there other electric SUVs coming in the next year? I have not been following this market well, so I have little knowledge of what's coming. Sure there's the e-Tron, but it's super pricey, and I'm wondering if VW will have the first "affordable" electric SUV on the market.


Ford MACH-E is supposed to come out around the same time as ID Crozz - around late 2020. And GM is planning some sort of Bolt CUV for Buick brand I think.

And obviously the luxury brands have a lot more on deck... Q4 e-tron is confirmed (MEB like ID Crozz) and I think Mercedes has something smaller than EQC coming as well.


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## smoothsix (Jun 19, 2001)

bzcat said:


> And obviously the luxury brands have a lot more on deck... Q4 e-tron is confirmed (MEB like ID Crozz) and I think Mercedes has something smaller than EQC coming as well.


E-Tron is out in Europe already; I was surprised to see one (and then a few more) in Norway a couple of weeks back. Not to say it won't be delayed for the US market, but it's not vaporware like so many EVs. 

Model Y is supposed to start production Real Soon Like Now but not planned for deliveries until Fall 2020?? So, I guess, 2021. :laugh:


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

smoothsix said:


> E-Tron is out in Europe already; I was surprised to see one (and then a few more) in Norway a couple of weeks back. Not to say it won't be delayed for the US market, but it's not vaporware like so many EVs.
> 
> Model Y is supposed to start production Real Soon Like Now but not planned for deliveries until Fall 2020?? So, I guess, 2021. :laugh:


The Q4 e-tron is not out yet. The larger e-tron SUV is available in Europe and North America.


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## smoothsix (Jun 19, 2001)

Hajduk said:


> The Q4 e-tron is not out yet. The larger e-tron SUV is available in Europe and North America.


My apologies. I wasn't aware such a thing was planned. I mis-read it as "4th quarter, e-tron is available". :banghead:


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## bzcat (Nov 26, 2001)

smoothsix said:


> My apologies. I wasn't aware such a thing was planned. I mis-read it as "4th quarter, e-tron is available". :banghead:


Q4 etron is Q3 size and basically Audi version of ID Crozz. 

https://www.audi.com/en/experience-audi/models-and-technology/concept-cars/q4-e-tron-concept.html


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## vwlifer27 (Jun 15, 2005)

Yuppie Scum said:


> https://www.motor1.com/news/362267/vw-id-crozz-spied-first-time/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think thats the case. They have been putting vertical blades coming off the spoilers along the sides of the glass (such as the GTI and R). If you look closely, you can see a line along the edge of the rear window and the vertical blade.


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

vwlifer27 said:


> I think thats the case. They have been putting vertical blades coming off the spoilers along the sides of the glass (such as the GTI and R). If you look closely, you can see a line along the edge of the rear window and the vertical blade.


Yes there is a vertical piece attached to the spoiler (a la GTI) but this is still not the coupe-style like the concept. The ID Crozz will come in two styles, the coupe and a traditional SUV- this is the traditional SUV style.


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## whitejeep1989 (May 15, 2007)

WLFIE said:


> God, I can't stand the coupe SUV thing. Whenever I see a GLC/GLE coupe or X4 or X6 driving around, I chuckle. They couldn't have just bought the regular version. Oh no. They just had to buy the one with the big dumpy fat ass to stand out in the Whole Foods parking lot.


There are traditional coupes and sedans that have offered "fastback" styling, as a more stylistic option to more formal styling.
It's not really a new thing.


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## WhatBlueVW (Nov 6, 2000)

NeverEnoughCars said:


> Joined in 2003.
> User name fiftysomething.
> Currently 2019.
> Just now closing in on 60.
> LOL


Glad I'm not the only one who was "obsessing" about this...:laugh:


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## whitejeep1989 (May 15, 2007)

Unilateral Phase Detractor said:


> Damn, that looks nice. :thumbup:


I agree.

It's interesting that they are quickly walking away from their current CUV (Atlas, Tiguan, Tarek) design language.

I suppose they want the electric cars to have their own design language, but this look will make the ICE vehicles look extremely blocky and conservative.


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## dwagner88 (Jan 14, 2011)

I really hope the naming scheme is only for the concepts. I can't stand it.


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

Supposedly it will start around $33k


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## EVW1 (Aug 30, 2019)

Although its a long shot from the Crozz concept I still like it. At $33k Volkswagen should have no problem selling these once they launch in 2020 (according to media reports)


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## SKing (Aug 30, 2019)

EVW1 said:


> Although its a long shot from the Crozz concept I still like it. At $33k Volkswagen should have no problem selling these once they launch in 2020 (according to media reports)


$33,000 is a really solid deal for an EV like this, VW better brace itself for all the orders they're going to get.


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## Bedlam (Aug 10, 2012)

EVW1 said:


> At $33k Volkswagen should have no problem selling these once they launch in 2020 (according to media reports)


Unfortunately I've seen other mfr's play games by including the Federal tax incentive and "potential savings" from years of using electricity instead of gas.

Does anyone know if that price is actual, or taking into account other savings?


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

Bedlam said:


> Unfortunately I've seen other mfr's play games by including the Federal tax incentive and "potential savings" from years of using electricity instead of gas.
> 
> Does anyone know if that price is actual, or taking into account other savings?


It comes from an interview with Scott Keogh 



> He also announced that the ID 4 will start at around $33,000 before any tax credits, which he said is "the dart for EVs."
> 
> https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/volkswagen-future-electric-cars-scott-keogh/


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## Bedlam (Aug 10, 2012)

Hajduk said:


> It comes from an interview with Scott Keogh


That is absolutely amazing. If true, this is very likely my next car.

But I am skeptical. The Hyundai starts at $37,000 and the Kia starts at $39,000. VW pricing 10-15% below Kia-Hyundai?


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## SKing (Aug 30, 2019)

Hajduk said:


> Supposedly it will start around $33k


There's a couple of more photos that I found that go with this one.


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## Bedlam (Aug 10, 2012)

Hajduk said:


> It comes from an interview with Scott Keogh


In a more recent interview he says the mid 30's price is _after _the federal tax credit, not _before_:

https://www.autonews.com/executives/vw-can-hold-ev-pricing-after-credits

I knew I shouldn't have believed him. *I f'ing knew it.* Too good to be true.


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## Mike! (Jun 18, 2002)

Bedlam said:


> In a more recent interview he says the mid 30's price is _after _the federal tax credit, not _before_:
> 
> https://www.autonews.com/executives/vw-can-hold-ev-pricing-after-credits
> 
> I knew I shouldn't have believed him. *I f'ing knew it.* Too good to be true.


So $39,999? That'd put it square with Model Y SR and actually under Mach-E SR, so that's not bad if this is as roomy as it looks to be. Bolt, Kona, and Niro are tiny and sticker about the same.


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

So much for the Crozz (or if you prefer..The ID4) being priced the same as a Tiguan. Unless you only count the loaded-with-all-the-bells-and- whistles Tiguan, that is. This is NOT price parity, folks. Price parity is apples to apples, not apples to oranges. If a Base Tiguan is around $25,000, then the ID 4 should ALSO start at around $25,000, NOT $15,000 higher. This is why EVs don't interest me. Tax credits are a joke, too. First of all, the credit is "up to" $7500, but this is NOT a $7500 discount or rebate, but rather $7500 knocked off your Adjusted Gross Income, which means maybe $1500 or $2000 less tax liability. What's up with the customer being charged for the fuel and maintenance savings? If VW or any other other automaker wants to sell EVs in high numbers, the price-gouging needs to stop. I personally love the ID Vizzion sedan, but I'm sure as hell am not going to pay $40,000 for one when I can get a gas Passat for $17,000 LESS. I'll put 40 bucks worth of gas or 80 bucks for synthetic oil changes or a few hundred bucks for maintenance in my Passat as I go before I pay 85% MORE up front to acquire the car in the first place....


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## aenea (Feb 18, 2002)

Cool.

The tax credit is a tax credit, not an AGI credit. It's not refundable, so you have to have at least $7500 in tax liability to get the full credit.


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

aenea said:


> Cool.
> 
> The tax credit is a tax credit, not an AGI credit. It's not refundable, so you have to have at least $7500 in tax liability to get the full credit.


An Accounting student told me it was merely $7500 knocked off taxable income, but even assuming this is incorrect, it's wrong to slap an extra $7500 onto the sticker and kick it up to $42500 to arrive at a net price of $35,000. (or whatever, $37,500 down to an even $30,000) . Keogh said that the ID 4 will be priced about the same as a Tiguan. Therefore, a BASE ID 4 should be about $25,000 and a LOADED ID 4 should approach $40,000. Period. Hopefully, VW's EVs will depreciate as their gas cars do, otherwise average working people that earn Wal Mart or McDonald's-like wages (about 8 out of every 10 people) will never be able to afford them. Since reducing humanity's carbon footprint is the objective, EV prices need to come WAY down or 75-80% of people will be forced into public transportation, riding bicycles, or walking. I make about $35,000 a year and MY idea of an affordable car is one that costs about $25-$28K new that can be had for half that once it's about 3-4 years old on a used car lot. Since EVs cost a good $10-$15K MORE than equivalent gas counterparts, this means that I'd have to wait until one was a decade old before I could get into one. Right now, from the perspective of a guy like me just 5 years away from being eligible for Medicare, the only affordable EV that comes from VW is a 3 or 4-year-old E-Golf, and that model is about to be killed......


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## vwguy97 (Oct 3, 2019)

Looking forward to the unveil and trim levels, if the base model comes nicely equipped for around $40k, I'll dumb my Tiguan.


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## RennWerks (Aug 19, 2003)

Hummm. . . WRT the ID4, aside from the (ahem) "unusual" name chosen . . . "Crozz"? Really? That's the best VW could come up with? -- there's nothing compelling about the design. Not a thing. The design theme works really well (IMHO) on the ID3; certainly it looks more contemporary and modern than the Golf Mk8, but when that same design language is morphed onto the ID4, it looks like what it is -- a jacked-up distortion of the original design. Worse, there's nothing about it that suggests it's somehow "special" among SUVs -- i.e., an *EV* -- which IMHO should be a principle objective for Volkswagen, given that this will be V-Dub's first meaningful attempt to announce VW's presence as a player in the U.S. EV market. 

And then there's the fact that *we won't get the ID3*. Dumb. Just plain dumb. 

Finally, _Car and Driver_ has reported the ID.Buzz -- yet another incredible awkward name -- will be a $70k vehicle. Seventy thousand dollars. With a base price of $40k the Microbus (much better name) would be a huge seller. Apparently $40k is not possible. OK: I could live with $50k because the concept and design are absolutely superb. But if _Car and Driver'_s reporting is correct regarding the cost, I can't imagine the Buzz will sell in sufficient numbers to become what it could be for VOA if it were less expensive: an icon.


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## veedubbin (Oct 13, 2001)

Sixtysomething said:


> An Accounting student told me it was merely $7500 knocked off taxable income, but even assuming this is incorrect, it's wrong to slap an extra $7500 onto the sticker and kick it up to $42500 to arrive at a net price of $35,000. (or whatever, $37,500 down to an even $30,000) . Keogh said that the ID 4 will be priced about the same as a Tiguan. Therefore, a BASE ID 4 should be about $25,000 and a LOADED ID 4 should approach $40,000. Period. Hopefully, VW's EVs will depreciate as their gas cars do, otherwise average working people that earn Wal Mart or McDonald's-like wages (about 8 out of every 10 people) will never be able to afford them. Since reducing humanity's carbon footprint is the objective, EV prices need to come WAY down or 75-80% of people will be forced into public transportation, riding bicycles, or walking. I make about $35,000 a year and MY idea of an affordable car is one that costs about $25-$28K new that can be had for half that once it's about 3-4 years old on a used car lot. Since EVs cost a good $10-$15K MORE than equivalent gas counterparts, this means that I'd have to wait until one was a decade old before I could get into one. Right now, from the perspective of a guy like me just 5 years away from being eligible for Medicare, the only affordable EV that comes from VW is a 3 or 4-year-old E-Golf, and that model is about to be killed......


Incorrect - Tax Credit is just that, if I pay in $4500 in federal tax in 2020 and get a $7500 credit I will receive $4500 back and the other 3k will roll over to 2021. If in 2021 I pay in $4500 then I will get back the remaining 3000. A tax rebate reduces your AGI - this is how mortgage interest, donations, etc. work.


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

veedubbin said:


> Incorrect - Tax Credit is just that, if I pay in $4500 in federal tax in 2020 and get a $7500 credit I will receive $4500 back and the other 3k will roll over to 2021. If in 2021 I pay in $4500 then I will get back the remaining 3000. A tax rebate reduces your AGI - this is how mortgage interest, donations, etc. work.


I must have misunderstood the accounting student.


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

RennWerks said:


> Finally, _Car and Driver_ has reported the ID.Buzz -- yet another incredible awkward name -- will be a $70k vehicle. Seventy thousand dollars. With a base price of $40k the Microbus (much better name) would be a huge seller. Apparently $40k is not possible. OK: I could live with $50k because the concept and design are absolutely superb. But if _Car and Driver'_s reporting is correct regarding the cost, I can't imagine the Buzz will sell in sufficient numbers to become what it could be for VOA if it were less expensive: an icon.


If the C & D journalists are correct, very few people (if any) will fork over $70,000 for a reincarnated Bus. Also, the die-hard air-cooled people could very well reject this modern-day Bus just as they did with the New Beetle.. To me, even $40K is $15,000 too much. Make it $25-$27K and you'd have a winner (at least for a while). If $40-$50-$70K is what we have to look forward to when VW rolls out their electrics, I'm sticking with my old gas models. That's just f.... INSANE.


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## RennWerks (Aug 19, 2003)

Sixtysomething said:


> If the C & D journalists are correct, very few people (if any) will fork over $70,000 for a reincarnated Bus. . . . To me, even $40K is $15,000 too much. Make it $25-$27K and you'd have a winner (at least for a while). . . .


Sixtysomething: I have 10 years on you. So, permit me to quote what my wife says to me on a daily basis: "You have no idea what things cost today." Most of the time she's right. 

Meander over to vw.com and check out the price of a VW GTI SE. The MSRP is over $33k. And that's for a VW product comprised of components that are well into mass production worldwide and have been for years. Thus, sir, the idea that VW AG could somehow manufacture what will be a limited production (boutique) battery-powered Microbus for $25-$27k just isn't possible. Actually, IMHO it's inconceivable. The running gear and the battery alone (mostly the lithium battery) will probably cost damn near $25k. Consequently, I recommend you do what I now do routinely: Whatever you think something "should" cost these days -- Big Mac, iPhone, movie, replacement windows, car of any sort, etc. -- double your estimate before you say it out loud. Works for me.


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

I'll take your word for it in regard to the GTI SE being over $33K, but I'm a very different kind of VW guy in that I don't need a loaded-to-the -gills trim level. Base trim VWs are just fine for me. If I was still into Golfs, I'd just buy a basic Golf. A Jetta in Base form is about $19,000. A Passat is about $23,000. A Tiguan is about $25,000, etc. My argument is that if EVs are going to be successful, their prices need to be more in line with gas cars. Apples to Apples.....If a Base Jetta is $19K, then so should some as-yet-unknown electric sedan in the same trim level. If a Base Tiguan is $25K, then so should the upcoming ID 4 (Crozz).......The problem is that a Base ID 4 will instead be priced like a Tiguan with all the bells and whistles, (around $42,500). People like me will stick with gas if this continues. At 60, that doesn't worry me too much since the goal of VW's head honchos is to have about a 20-25% electric portfolio by 2025. That leaves 75-80% still running on tried-and-true dinosaur juice (and much more affordable to the 46.5% of people in the US that earn $30,000 or less a year.........) Volkswagens are supposed to be People's Cars. The Phaeton failed here in the US because of its $60K or so starting price, the CC was a sportier-looking but overpriced Passat and I have a feeling the Arteon will suffer the same fate. Also, the Eos was essentially a Jetta convertible that cost $10,000 more........I'd rather pay $10,000 for a gas engine rebuild than replace a $25,000 lithium battery any day. I love the Space Vizzion concept, but won't buy one unless it's priced the same as a Passat.


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)




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