# 2003 New Beetle; Problem #1: Stalling/Dying at intersections



## hpp3 (Mar 15, 2015)

Hey all, I'm new here, hope I'm posting in the right place. 
I have a 2003 New Beetle that I bought new in 2002 (I still don't understand the "next year's model" racket the car industry has going on...) which has begun to forget its glasses and yelling at kids to get off the driveway, but I'll take it one problem at a time, so to start off:

My NB has a new trick of stalling at intersections. I'll pull up to an intersection/stop light/stopped traffic and ------ No coughing, wheezing or shuddering, just sudden flatline and the battery light comes on. I say _stall_, because I can start it up again, but it starts hard; takes about 2-3x as many engine turnovers as normal to get it started. I've done a search on this forum, but most (all?) of the questions regarding this same problem have the car unable to start again. After I get it started, I have a Check Engine Light that lasts for the next few drives, then goes away. Haven't had a chance to get a diagnostic done, but it's on the list.

One thing I noticed; the other day, I ran out of gas on the way home (payday is Friday, coasting on fumes Thursday, and bus service in this town may as well be replaced by water buffalo and hay wagons). I called my son to bring some gas out, and after putting enough in the tank to get home, I noticed it had _the same difficulty starting up_ as when recovering from an intersection stall, so that made me think maybe the gas pump is saying its tearful goodbyes.

So, my question is this; in absence of actual codes to go by, does this sound like a possible fuel pump issue? I plan on going to Autozone on Monday or Tuesday to get a diagnostic, so I'll know more then, but just getting feelers for now.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Hey, first of all; what engine and trans do you have? 

Diagnostics:

1. Get the codes read; this can give you some direction on what is going on. I recommend you get a Volkswagen compatible scan tool: they will pick up and show codes, that your generic scan tool will not. On the low end you can pick up a vw code reader on Amazon, the vs450 for about $30-$40 or go all the way to a Volkswagen factory level scan tool with the VCDS from Ross Tech. Many auto parts stores; will let you rent a scan tool; so that is another option but many codes, may not be accessible.

Cheap handheld vw compatible scan tools

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...++Scan+tool&rh=i:aps,k:+Volkswagen++Scan+tool

VCDS

http://store.ross-tech.com/shop/cat/VCDS.html

2. Fuel delivery: I would rent or buy a fuel pressure tester and see if it is in spec. Many possibilities: pump, filter, regulator etc.

3. Speed/crank sensor failure: these are prone to intermittent failure, most times a trouble code will be thrown for this. Scan for codes.

We can speculate as to the problem but until you start testing things with the correct diagnostic procedures and tools, you are essentially flying blind. Throwing parts at the problem; without hard cold facts, from the results of testing, is a waste of money and time. Using a process of elimination with the results from step by step diagnostic troubleshooting, you can usually find the problem! Let's fix this thing! 

Here are online manuals: to look up diagnostic procedures, specs et, for your car:

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswagen/


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## hpp3 (Mar 15, 2015)

> Hey, first of all; what engine and trans do you have?


It's a 2.0L automatic.



> Cheap handheld vw compatible scan tools


My wife already wants to just junk it and use what cash we can get to fund some small issues with the Passat we just picked up, so buying diagnostic tools for a car we might not have for long won't cut it with her. Which is why I was going to go with Autozone's free testing service, hopefully they can give me numbers I can work with. I am one of those guys who wants to fix anything that's on the sunny side of hopeless, and she'd rather cut losses while the horse is still breathing. I'm going to have to be REALLY sure that any part I purchase will fix the issue.

As far as testing fuel pressure, I'll have to look that up. Thankfully, this forum and the internet is full of advice. Aside from this problem, the car has run just as smoothly as the day we bought it, through a broken water pump, fouled spark plugs (which caused a similar issue previously), and broken wires (which will be the topic of another question), which is why we've kept it so long. AND it doesn't do the stall trick at _every_ intersection; it's a random lottery draw where and when it chooses to nap. 

I'd hate to let it go just for lack of a $50 part, but it appears I have my work cut out for me...


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## hpp3 (Mar 15, 2015)

OK, just got back from Autozone (what a great service! Free! and they were nice!). 
I got a code of P0322, which according to engine-codes.com is:

http://engine-codes.com/p0322_volkswagen.html


> P0322 Volkswagen
> 
> P0322 Volkswagen - Ignition Engine Speed Input Circuit No Signal


Digging further, it could be a bad wire, the Engine Control Module, or more likely, the Crankshaft Position Sensor (according to numerous links and videos on the internet).
The guy at Autozone said that thing is up behind the harmonic balancer, so would require pulling the transmission. 

However, the internet says it's a little pluggie deal held in by one bolt on the underside of the engine, so is nothing more heinous than a quick trip under the car with a socket wrench. The price, however, fluctuates wildly. Autozone has them in stock for ~$100 (not going to happen), but CarParts.com has some for $6.26. I know better than to go with the cheapest part on the block (and that is WAY too cheap to be looked at with anything but skepticism), but I gotta ask; has anybody had experience with these "Replacement" brand thingummies? Are they total crap, or will they do in a pinch? What's the next best to get that won't burn a hole in my wallet? (my wallet is fairly flammable, please be gentle...)


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Read this link; it is vw specific and no generic, like your link is. 

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16706/P0322/000802

_ENGINE SPEED SESNOR (G28)
Used by TCM to compare Engine speed with Vehicle speed for slip reduction. RPM signal to ECM then cluster.

Special Notes
The Engine Speed Sensor (G28) is also used as a reference sensor for the crankshaft position._


This was one of the typical issues; that I mentioned. Speed/crank sensor; get a good oem part, the factory part was made by Bosch. Don't buy junk aftermarket parts; get the real deal oem stuff. 

You can lookup your parts here: https://www.boschautoparts.com/

Pretty sure the below; is the right part # but use your vin # for correct parts. 


Part #0 261 210 199 
In Stock: Yes
Our Price : $110.75
List Price : $147.67
Weight : 0.50
QTY : 
Vehicle Application Data
Ships in 1 Business Day
Manufacturer: Bosch

Often referred to as sensor G28, Impulse sensor(sender), or Engine Speed sensor. The crank position sensor tells the engine computer how fast the crank shaft is rotating. This sensor plays a very important role in the operation of the vehicle. The crank position sensor failing may possibly result in a no start condition. 


Possible Fault Codes associated with the failure of this part
16706 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): No Signal P0322 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

16705 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Implausible Signal P0321 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent


For Volkswagen 2.0 engine codes AVH, AZG, BEV

For Volkswagen 1.8T engine codes AWP

For Volkswagen 2.0 Turbo engine codes BPY

To be used for VW part number 06A-906-433-L, 06A906433L, 06A-906-433-G, 06A906433G

Good price here: 

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=ema2cv55uc0cja55r24qdd45&partnumber=0 261 210 199


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## hpp3 (Mar 15, 2015)

> Read this link; it is vw specific and no generic, like your link is.


I saw that link too, thanks though, for confirming it's VW-specific.



> Don't buy junk aftermarket parts; get the real deal oem stuff.


Believe me, if I could, I would. Even if an aftermarket part gets me another 1,000 miles without the car dying randomly, then I have a case to make with my wife to get a better part and keep the car. 



> Pretty sure the below; is the right part # but use your vin # for correct parts.


I got part #0261210147, but I've found there's another in which the only difference is the length of the wire. According to one person I spoke to at O'Reilly's, the long one is made for models produced _up to_ 06/2003, and the short one for models produced 07/2003 and after. The VW parts are 06A906433L and 06A906433C, respectfully. I'm just going to go under the car once it stops raining and take a gander at how long the thing is. I couldn't find anywhere on the Bosch website to put in my VIN number.

P.S. At least two sites, AutoPartsWarehouse.com and Amazon.com say 0261210199 is the wrong one for my car. Pictures are no help though, APW shows the long one and Amazon the short one. :screwy:


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

The Bosch website comes up with this: 
With the Engine code: BDC

You can find your engine code by looking at these locations: 

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/tb-7192011vw.pdf


Part Number:
0261210147

Also, you can download the Bosch parts finder app: you can input your vin # to find the correct parts for your car. Available for iOS and android: 

https://www.google.com/search?q=bos...urceid=chrome-mobile&espv=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-US


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## hpp3 (Mar 15, 2015)

I don't have any Android or iOS devices, but thanks for the suggestion. I looked on my engine, and it is the AVH type. I also looked under the car at the CPS and it is the short-wire version. Still debating if it is worth keeping the car though, 219K is an awful lot of miles. I'll keep posted if we go ahead.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Well, even if you sell it; you need to fix it.... Or take a major loss. Let's fix this thing! 

Use your vin# when ordering parts.


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## hpp3 (Mar 15, 2015)

> Well, even if you sell it; you need to fix it.... Or take a major loss. Let's fix this thing!


Agreed. If I can fix it, I could probably get $1000 out of it if I sell it right. As it is now, the junk car guys say $200 - $400. I'll be working some odd jobs so we can at least afford to keep it on insurance for now.

THEN I can focus on replacing the timing belt (now at ~9k beyond when I should have), and some obvious wiring issues with the passenger side door. I'll save those for other threads. Payday is Friday, I'm gonna order that crank sensor then.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

If you are looking for a timing belt and water pump kit; check these guys out, excellent quality parts, include everything you need to complete the job and great prices as well. I have installed two of their kits; in the last year, excellent and no issues with the parts.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

www.blauparts.com


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## hpp3 (Mar 15, 2015)

Well, things came to a head this past weekend and sadly, the Beetle had to go. I got $1000 for it as-is (Ok, ok, he talked me down to $850), amazingly, and the guy who bought it was already making plans on what to do with it, so I know it's in good hands. The cash is now going to go towards fixing some small things on the Passat I got, so... upwards and onwards!

Thanks for your patience and time, Billymade. If you have any experience with Passats, I'll be posting in that section.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Hey, I stay mainly in the new beetle section but feel free to private message me; if you have any questions about your Passat. I will do my best to help!


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