# External Combustion Rocket Zero-lag Teaser



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

I know some people might be interested to get a sneak peak at something that may revolutionize Anti lag systems.















http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/id/2619/external-combustion-rocket-zero-lag-teaser.aspx

http://www.racedandrallied.com/tech...tion-of-the-subaru-wrc-rocket-anti-lag-system


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

....ok now that is ****in cool....


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

I concur! RPMS go back down, boost stays up!


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## masterqaz (Oct 5, 2007)

Sounded like a ****ing pod racer straight outta starwars


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

For real, always a solid 30psi knocking on the throttle body's door at just above idle speed!


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## Rapid Decompression (Dec 5, 2004)

Didn't they use this same type of system in early IMSA stuff?>


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

Nice


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

A company called Turbonique built a rocket-powered supercharger back in the mid 60's. So it's not really a new concept. 

http://www.tunersgroup.com/TunerWire_Live/Turbonique.html

They also built a rocket powered drag axle for RWD cars. Used some crazy unstable chemical mixture for fuel. Pretty much Wiley Coyote ****.


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## masterqaz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thinking the transmissions like..... Just kill me now!


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

It's something the last Subaru WRC cars were using at launch. It's technology that has probably been around for a decade, but as you can see in the video its much more refined.


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## scrapper (Feb 17, 2007)

Now to figure out a way to use it on a Automatic would be :thumbup:


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

scrapper said:


> use it on a Automatic


Ew.


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## scrapper (Feb 17, 2007)

Yeah this turd.





I guess I would need to start working on a standalone for the trans and trans break and maybe a higher stall. Hmm the possibilities. I like the idea tho.


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

AJmustDIE said:


> Ew.


Scrapper can say that with confidence. 

Anti-Lag setup has been around for eons. VW/Audi has been using an anti-lag setup since the mid 80's. As AJ said, its just more refined. The sucky part is that it will never be cheap enough for us to buy it. Even a 90's style Anti-lag setup will cost you near $10k.


Audi old 20v (Umluft) anti-lag system 











> They (and most other manuf.) used dual WG. Audi used a Porsche 930 (Big) and a 944 (small) wastegate. The bottom of the 2nd wastegate would connect to the U-pipe between the turbo and intercooler. its orientation is reversed to the airflow to prevent the mass inertia of the air playing any role in prematurely opening the 944 wastegate. The vacuum lines indicate that the 2nd wastegate (944) is triggered when the air pressure in the intake exceeds a certain pressure as dictated by the wastegate spring. There also was a computer which controlled vacuum pressure to the topside of the 944 wastegate which allowed it to open during idle.
> 
> Basically the system allows intake charge air to enter the exhaust stream via the wastegate. Its controlled by vacuum pressure post TB with some other electronic vacuum control not yet determined which connects to the topside of the 944 wastegate. The wastegate will be opened at idle via vacuum pressure on the manifold or from a computer control introducing O2 in to the exhaust stream which results in a very marked increase in turbo RPMs which means more CFM airflow generated by the compressor. To prevent turbo surge the unused air that is not consumed by the engine is vented into the manifold which provides O2 gases for post combustion or a rich mix. So for example the turbocharger is always providing some very high CFM number and always rotating at high RPMs. The 944 wastegate merely dumps whatever air the engine can't consume into the hotside. The complicated part is controlling the balance between the exhaust manifold pressure and the intake manifold pressure to keep flow going in the right direction.



No wonder why all of the ALS equipped cars have very thick exhaust mani's like this (Lehmann built mani)











> A car so equiped would idle at about 4000 rpms. Boost pressure is instant and power is fantastic with NO lag at all at any RPM. The problems encountered is that the system burns up exhaust valves and exhaust manifolds rapidly.


Being that there is no lag, it allows you to run a much bigger exhaust housing. This is why Audi went with a HUGE K27/29 #13 turbo








(L-R: K27, RS2, K27/29)


Newer Skoda 1.8T ALS


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## scrapper (Feb 17, 2007)

Capt.Dreadz said:


> Scrapper can say that with confidence.


 The car just got a lot faster over the weekend as well. Kevin/Lugtronic has been working his magic. Sure would be nice to utilize full boost at launch.


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

I think 2 step is the only way for a street car. Works (factory) race engines routinely get torn down so the bad side of this system isn't an issue. We, the DIY'ers can't afford to tear down the engine every few hundred miles to check for wear due to the pressure/heat generated.


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## scrapper (Feb 17, 2007)

Capt.Dreadz said:


> I think 2 step is the only way for a street car. Works (factory) race engines routinely get torn down so the bad side of this system isn't an issue. We, the DIY'ers can't afford to tear down the engine every few hundred miles to check for wear due to the pressure/heat generated.


Yeah I guess if your winning a lot races you could afford to replace burnt exhaust valves and exhaust manifolds and who knows what else. I hope they can continue the ingenuity because I do like the idea or concept. I would like to see a more friendlier unit that doesn't have such a costly effect on the rest of the motor. Glad to see it being done and utilized in the racing scene. In time I'm sure more refinements will be made as well as affordability. :thumbup:


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

The upside to this external combustion anti-lag system is that the whole suffering exhaust valve thing is no longer a problem. It's a standalone CFM producing unit with it's own air/fuel system. Keeps the turbine going (hence the car sounding like a passenger plain taxiing the runway) and the engine is only operating at just above idle speed with no negative effects.


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## scrapper (Feb 17, 2007)

Oh thanks for clarifying that! Sounds even more intriguing . Now that cost :sly:


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

Here's a quote that should sum it up...


> There are many levels of ALS which are used with different programs for different situations. E.g. the tarmac ALS program is the most aggressive, the winter/snow program the least, and so forth.
> 
> ALS has no place on a street car. You can fake it with timing tricks that most of the aftermarket EMS units can do, but true air injection anti-lag will destroy a steel turbine turbo inside of a thousand miles. That's why TTE went to very exotic materials to give the turbos any kind of life, and even then they only last a very short time.
> 
> ...


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## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

Well gee... I'll go pawn my American Racing wheels and pick a system up this weekend!! Woot woot... I has psi-chotic pawr!!

Seriously though... between the dead transmissions and the apocalyptic burnouts, I'm pretty sure I'd die happy!

But ya know even if a weak system was used and there was 6-8 psi at idle it'd still be a ridiculous rush!


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