# mk5 Jetta/Golf 4motion conversion findings



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

I would like to start this topic to keep all my findings regarding the Mk5 Jetta/Golf 4motion conversion. I am going to focus on the TDI engine, as this is what I currently drive. 
It appears it should be way easier to make the conversion in mk5 then in mk4. Here is a comparison of FWD and 4motion rear suspension:
This is FWD rear suspension:








And this is 4M rear suspension:








It appears the bolts attaching the whole thing to the chassis are in the same location. What is more important I can confirm there is a cavity over rear suspension in my Jetta that should allow Haldex to fit in. In other words: the FWD and 4Motion chassis APPEARS to be the same. Which should make any potential conversion really easy.
Here are two pics of the rear side of the drivetrain with the rear drive splitter (or whatever proper name of this thing is). One is from Passat B6 (most likely BMM engine code - Passat B6 shares lots of components with A5 Jetta/Golf), the other one is from mk5 R32.
Passat B6 4motion:








Mk5 R32:








The BRM engine that is in US Jetta TDI has a similar turbo setup: over the exhaust manifold. Again, this means there should be enough space to fit in the splitter.
Here are three pictures of the rear suspension: Passat B6, Mk5 R32 and Mk5 Golf TDI 4motion (available in EU and Mexico AFAIK):
Passat B6 4motion:








Mk5 R32:








Mk5 Golf TDI 4motion:








In addition here is the picture of the FWD Mk5 Golf suspension:








As I mentioned: there is a cavity in the Jetta chassis that should fit in Haldex.
One thing that also needs to be changed is fuel tank. I still look for the pictures of fuel tanks in Jetta, Golf and Golf 4motion.
I would be grateful for any info regarding 4motion conversion in mk5 Jetta/Golf, especially from the EU forums.


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## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: mk5 Jetta/Golf 4motion conversion findings (maloosheck)*

wow that sure does LOOK easy if it will bolt up. The lower trailing arms arm the same. If thats the case everything else will much 100 times easier then a Mk4 AWD swap... I would give it a shot


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## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: mk5 Jetta/Golf 4motion conversion findings (maloosheck)*

checked etka and the 4motion trailingarm and the regular FWD arm are the same..


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

Here is something that I am not sure. This is a picture of the 4motion 6-speed tranny with the detached splitter (anyone knows proper name?):








As you can see there are 4 holes to attach the splitter and there is no diff flange (most likely the whole part is different).
I found several pics of the 6-speed trannies that were in the FWD vehicles:
































Only the last one does not have the holes for the splitter bolts.
My question is: will the FWD tranny with the holes work with splitter, say after making sure that the diff flange from 4motion? Or are there any other differences between 4motion and FWD trannies that will not allow to attach the splitter to the FWD tranny?


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## jettaboy_gtx (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

the spliter as you call it is transfer case. And im not 100% sure but i think you cant put a transfer cas on a FWD tranny. why wouldnt you just find an AWD tranny and use that instead of trying to put a transfer case on a FWD tranny?


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (jettaboy_gtx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jettaboy_gtx* »_why wouldnt you just find an AWD tranny and use that instead of trying to put a transfer case on a FWD tranny?

how easy is it going to be to find a 6-speed 4motion tranny with TDI engine gear ratio in NA that I can use in mk5 Jetta?


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
how easy is it going to be to find a 6-speed 4motion tranny with TDI engine gear ratio in NA that I can use in mk5 Jetta?

You arent going to find with in NA, you need to look overseas.


_Modified by TBT-Syncro at 2:58 PM 9-23-2007_


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_Yyou arentt going to find with in NA, you need to look overseas.

Any idea how to easily bring it here, once I find it?


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

Ever imported a large/heavy item before?
Its all going to depend on the seller/shipper and what they're willing to do for you at their end. Bringing it through customs once it's here is easy.


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## boner (May 19, 2002)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*

purely unscientificly, i'd say that the pics look close enough that you can bolt the transfer case on a fwd trans. if i had to guess tho, you'd probably be looking for a different front diff cuz it's got to engage the transfer case. also, what about the axle seal on that side? is the OD of that gonna be the same OD as the part of the transfer case that goes into the box?
looks to me at first glance that were you to establish that you CAN infact attach the transfer case to the fwd trans, the rest of the car will more or less fall together, and for relatively cheap too http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i mean, looks to me all we're talkin about is the transfer case, rear suspension, custom exhaust and probably some misc electrical gizmos to control the haldex (are there any?)
the electrical scares me though. i mean, even the wipers on my gti are connected to the brains so that they go to intermittant when you are at a stop light.....


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## farfrumslow (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: (boner)*

there are also holes for fluid transfer in addition to the four bolt holes


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (farfrumslow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *farfrumslow* »_there are also holes for fluid transfer in addition to the four bolt holes

Heard about it. Any pics/other resources to validate this info?


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (boner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boner* »_the electrical scares me though.

AFAIK it should be the easiest part. Haldex is connected with 5 wires: power, ground, CAN-H, CAN-L and brake switch.
The only problem I can see here is that there might be different Haldex programming for Diesel and Gasser.


_Modified by maloosheck at 5:50 AM 3-7-2008_


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## tranceporter (Nov 30, 2007)

bump?


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## shortshiften (Mar 29, 2005)

nice......


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

This is what I need! Makes my Rabbit even more valuable!


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## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

these parts can be easily sourced in america..
ecodeparts will import thus fer shur


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (shortydub)*

wow sweet.


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## wuznmeTT (Apr 18, 2005)

Wow, I was just talking about this. I'd love to do it.
Looks like it may not just be a pipe dream.
Thanks for making the info available.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (wuznmeTT)*

Does anyone have pics of how the mkv r32 exhaust is routed?


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

nm


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

Bump


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## jetta9103 (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (jettaboy_gtx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jettaboy_gtx* »_the spliter as you call it is transfer case. And im not 100% sure but i think you cant put a transfer cas on a FWD tranny. why wouldnt you just find an AWD tranny and use that instead of trying to put a transfer case on a FWD tranny?

the "splitter" is NOT a transfer case...it is referred to as an "angle drive" or more commonly a "power transfer unit." it performs the same function as a t-case, but t-cases are usually used in longitudinal setups (and also where the transmission does not house a final drive of some sort), and power transfer units are typically used in transverse setups.
btw, cool pics in the OT. and cool topic. im interested in the answer... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_Any idea how to easily bring it here, once I find it?

Will cost you about 450-600US in shipping alone.Better to do it in a bulk shipment or have 1 of those specialty people (ecodeparts,etc) import it for you.
I guess VW finally got smarter and made both chassis the same.Andre you want to do this?


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Will cost you about 450-600US in shipping alone.Better to do it in a bulk shipment or have 1 of those specialty people (ecodeparts,etc) import it for you.
I guess VW finally got smarter and made both chassis the same.Andre you want to do this?









I was thinking of use using a audi tt 225 trans.


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## trastrim (Aug 11, 2006)

What is the estimated cost and workload associated with the possible swap of a 4motion drivetrain into the MK5 chassis. I'd love to do this one the Rabbit, especially if it's about the same price as a turbo (without labor)


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_
I was thinking of use using a audi tt 225 trans.

Same bell housing as the inline-5?
Wow VW is getting smarter


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## abeMKvGLi (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: mk5 Jetta/Golf 4motion conversion findings (maloosheck)*

inteerrestttinggg . .......


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## bwzimmerman (Jun 16, 2007)

any more info? What about us 2.0T owners? We got the Audi A4 2.0T Quattro to part from... right?


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## jetta9103 (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (bwzimmerman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwzimmerman* »_any more info? What about us 2.0T owners? We got the Audi A4 2.0T Quattro to part from... right?

no, not "bolt on," because you are still dealing with completely different drivetrain setups. Audi A4 = longitudinal (w/ a center diff)
your 2.0T = transverse (w/ PTU & Haldex)


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Will cost you about 450-600US in shipping alone.Better to do it in a bulk shipment or have 1 of those specialty people (ecodeparts,etc) import it for you.

Do you have any more details on how to ship anything from Europe? I found the transmission I want and I need to find out how to bring it.


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## mercury26 (Aug 20, 2004)

I am very interested in this thread and hoping I see a DIY come out of it. I purchased a DSG GTI, with hopes that it would be easier to source US parts to do the conversion. Looking forward to someone giving this a shot.
Cheers,
Chuck


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (djsaint)*


_Quote, originally posted by *djsaint* »_I am very interested in this thread and hoping I see a DIY come out of it. I purchased a DSG GTI, with hopes that it would be easier to source US parts to do the conversion. Looking forward to someone giving this a shot.

With DSG gasser all you have to do is to save some money and find the totaled mk5 R32 (one was already in the mk5 classifieds)...


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## Marshmallow Man (Jun 16, 2004)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

whats the orientation of the tiguan 2.0t? 
after all is said and done probably better just buyin the tiguan


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3842257


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

I wonder how much it weighs


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (EL_3grab)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EL_3grab* »_










It looks like vr6 has the same bolt pattern as any 1.8/1.9/2.0/2.5 inline... Good to know. Seems the r32 mk5 could be a donor for any mk5...


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## flint2.5jetta (May 2, 2008)

if this works, i'm gonna do this. this is so awsome.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_

It looks like vr6 has the same bolt pattern as any 1.8/1.9/2.0/2.5 inline... Good to know. Seems the r32 mk5 could be a donor for any mk5...

Maybe because I just woke up, but the doesn't look as if the bolt pattern is the same as any other bolt pattern except for the vr6.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_
Maybe because I just woke up, but the doesn't look as if the bolt pattern is the same as any other bolt pattern except for the vr6.

I think I was *wrong*. Indeed the pattern looks *different*.


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## mercury26 (Aug 20, 2004)

Sounds like an Audi TT or the (new) A3, 2.0T DSG Quattros are the best donor cars.
Cheers,
Chuck


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## jetta9103 (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (Marshmallow Man)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marshmallow Man* »_whats the orientation of the tiguan 2.0t? 
after all is said and done probably better just buyin the tiguan









tiguan is oriented just like the golf. i'd assume most of the parts are plug and play (key word: assume). probably just a good of a suggestion.


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## mercury26 (Aug 20, 2004)

*Re: (jetta9103)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jetta9103* »_
tiguan is oriented just like the golf. i'd assume most of the parts are plug and play (key word: assume). probably just a good of a suggestion.

Except the Tiguan does not come with 4Motion with DSG or 6MT, I believe it is the same Aisin (read crap) transmission in the Passat.
Cheers,
Chuck


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## gilotin661 (Aug 27, 2005)

*Re: (EL_3grab)*

nice auto trans but i like to see a 6spd 4motion trans that'll bolt on to 2.0T motor?


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

I am looking for the pictures of the exhaust from the mk5 Golf/Golf Variant 4motion (TDI or gasser, but not R32).


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## sipes216 (Nov 23, 2007)

question for you all.
lets speak on the jetta wagon...
what all pain would i have to suffer to convert that beast?
anyone gotten under one?


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

It should be even easier. In EU they have Golf Variant TDI 4Motion, so it is just the matter of cash to bring the parts here.


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## sipes216 (Nov 23, 2007)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

well, that's a great answer, however that's not quite where my question ends.
i'm a mechanic, i'l weasel myself around the transmission however i have to, to get it in.
i'm speaking more of how do you tell the car "hey, you're AWD now!" 
how do you tell the trans control module to start acting in 4mo?
the drive train differential (referred to as "splitter") HAS to have some sort of electronic linkage to the vehicle for the engagement of electro-clutches...

piecing the car together is easy, just getting it working is something else.
also, do we have a price list for these?
and for the trans, how exactly would i have it shipped over?
does anyone have any model part numbers of the transmission, and who can i source the parts from?
taken from VWoA's jetta sportswagon spec page:
gear------regular DSG-----TDI DSG
1st---------3.36 (3.46)----3.77 (3.46)
2nd--------2.09 (2.15)----2.09 (2.05)
3rd---------1.47 (1.46)-----1.32 (1.30)
4th---------1.10 (1.08)----0.98 (0.90)
5th---------1.11 (1.09)----0.98 (0.91)
6th---------0.93 (0.92)----0.81 (0.76)
R-----------1.64 (3.98)----4.55 (3.99)
Final I-----3.94 (4.06)----3.45 (4.12)
Final II----3.09 (3.14)----2.76 (3.04)


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (sipes216)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sipes216* »_i'm speaking more of how do you tell the car "hey, you're AWD now!" 
how do you tell the trans control module to start acting in 4mo?
the drive train differential (referred to as "splitter") HAS to have some sort of electronic linkage to the vehicle for the engagement of electro-clutches...


Haldex has its own module controlling the rear drive clutch. The module uses CAN-BUS and hand brake signals to determine the need for engaging the rear drive. Haldex module uses ABS controller to provide the Haldex module with signals from acceleration sensor. Therefore, you need a car with ESP. There are few other signals used from the following sensors: rpms sensor, acceleration pedal position, all 4 wheel rotation sensors, both brakes sensors. 
I have seen the custom stand-alone Haldex control module that was not connected to the CAN-BUS and that was made solely for the drag racing. It allowed to transfer the power to the rear drive 0-100% and only for the first two or three gears.


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## Exodusx7x (Aug 19, 2007)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

Just curious regarding the tranny out of the new r32. I have been wondering if the trans (being dsg only in us) would be a bolt on for the 2.0t? anyone have a clue? I currently have a dsg in my 08 gti and would love to dump some coin into a awd conversion or on the more crazy side Source a v10 tt toureg motor and drop that into my Gti


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Exodusx7x)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Exodusx7x* »_I have been wondering if the trans (being dsg only in us) would be a bolt on for the 2.0t?

Based on the pictures above it seems the r32 DSG tranny will *not* fit 2.0T.


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## Exodusx7x (Aug 19, 2007)

*Re: (sipes216)*

Well sipes I figure that instead of fiddling with all the elictrical mumbo jumbo I'll just yell at my car really loud and bam awd..... But seriously The electrical should be the easy part is fitting all the mechanical crap that would be a royal pain. I figure as long as the rear suspension could be bolted on for the most part aside from a random bracket or what have you then the only real problem would be figuring out a tranny and T case setup... then all you need to put it all together is alot of


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Exodusx7x)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Exodusx7x* »_I figure as long as the rear suspension could be bolted on for the most part aside from a random bracket or what have you then the only real problem would be figuring out a tranny and T case setup... then all you need to put it all together is alot of























Well, fuel tank is another thing to figure out. Not to mention the exhaust.
But we might have more information soon, as I am actively searching for anything I can bring from Europe to move from Research Phase to Attempt Phase


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## Exodusx7x (Aug 19, 2007)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

I was mulling this over with a buddy of mine and he suggested looking into some Audi goodies. doesn't the new Audi tt have like the awd and 2.0t engine with dsg? If so then that solves the tranny problem. Fuel tank is something to consider but the whole exhaust thing is simple nothing some creative piping wouldn't solve


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## AtomicOnionMan (Oct 23, 2007)

It seems very likely that the Audi and VW transverse AWD platforms will share a great many parts. In fact, I don't think it too far-fetched to think that one could even use the rear sub frame from a Quattro TT on the MkV platform. I myself have pondered trying to find a totaled TT S-line from which to salvage the K04 turbo, 6-speed manual transmission, and rear subframe to use on my MkV GTI. I don't have any proof of concept, but I really can't imagine these parts would be any different. 


_Modified by AtomicOnionMan at 7:43 PM 6-25-2008_


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (AtomicOnionMan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AtomicOnionMan* »_I myself have pondered trying to find a totaled TT S-line from which to salvage the K04 turbo, 6-speed manual transmission, and rear subframe to use on my MkV GTI.

1. Is there any 2.0L (either gas or diesel) quattro TT available in US?
2. Per audiusa website only 3.2 has permanent quattro drive. Per HPA it is still Haldex. If it is Haldex, it is most likely exactly the same as in mk5 R32.
Per available drawings it seems like it is exactly the same as mk5 R32:


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## AtomicOnionMan (Oct 23, 2007)

If I'm not mistaken, the Audi TT S line, which I believe is offered in the US, is the 265 hp 2.0T with quattro AWD. I believe you can also get a TT 3.2 in quattro with both DSG and manual transmissions for those considering either option.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (AtomicOnionMan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AtomicOnionMan* »_If I'm not mistaken, the Audi TT S line, which I believe is offered in the US, is the 265 hp 2.0T with quattro AWD. I believe you can also get a TT 3.2 in quattro with both DSG and manual transmissions for those considering either option. 

S-line in US is still FWD. But the fact that 3.2 is in 6MT is worth noting.


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## Exodusx7x (Aug 19, 2007)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

god with the sound of a gnarly r32 exhaust note and having awd standard I might just sell my mk5 and buy an r32 lol


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## jetta9103 (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
2. Per audiusa website only 3.2 has permanent quattro drive. Per HPA it is still Haldex. If it is Haldex, it is most likely exactly the same as in mk5 R32.

Permanent? In the TT VR6? No...it is also Haldex.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (jetta9103)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jetta9103* »_Permanent? In the TT VR6? No...it is also Haldex.

So do you think the Haldex controller is programmed differently, or the whole "permanent quattro" is just a marketing.


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## jetta9103 (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

No, it may be programmed slighlty different than a A3 or a Golf, but it is still mostly FWD under normal conditions. maybe they mean "permanent" in that the hardware is always there? or that there is always a minor bit of torque being tranferred to the rear? lol


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## Wizz (Jun 26, 2006)

In ETKA the mkV GTI and R32 chasie is different..
Dont you think that could be a problem? :/
I was thinking about puting 4motion from r32 to my gti too, but i doubt its possible :/


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

Remember that R32 has completely different exhaust than anything else. On the other hand you might be right: GTI has a spare wheel, R32 does not have one. With Jetta/Golf Variant there is no problem, because spare is moved far back.


_Modified by maloosheck at 5:35 PM 8-27-2008_


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

Well, it's time to move from theory to practice. I was in Europe in May and I found few parts from mk5 Golf 1.9 TDI 4Motion. After 3 months I have finally picked them up today. Here we go:
1. 6-speed MT for TDI 4Motion (FWZ) - it might require some changes to the gear ratio in the future, but at this point the most important was it should bolt in to my engine without any problems.








2. Transfer case from this transmission:








3. Haldex and rear differential:








4. Rear subframe and rear axles (still wrapped):








The plan is to try to install everything in 3 phases:
1. Front: Transmission + axles
2. Rear: Fuel tank + rear suspension
3. Connection: shaft + ABS
I am planning to pair engine with transmission using EU-spec 240mm DMF/clutch kit from PD170. It should handle my current torque as well as expected future upgrades.
This is how it arrived:
















And this is how I transported everything home:
















The whole load weighted 183kg per Bill of Lading (not sure if it is gross or net of packaging). Even with two transmissions on board (one under the hood and one in a trunk) the car was accelerating quite well.


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## Marshmallow Man (Jun 16, 2004)

*Re: (maloosheck)*








can't wait to see the progress on this! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Old Frog (Feb 20, 2007)

Mike; Good call. Your photos are consistent with what I had been told about the O2q and the transfer case. Good luck with the project. INteresting to read the flywheel choice. 
Bob


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## SBAtdijetta (Mar 11, 2007)

*Re: maloosheck*








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Makes my simple thoughts of a just a FWD 6spd with an LSD in my TDI seem very easy.


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

*Re: maloosheck (SBAtdijetta)*

That's just great
what you will be doing regarding the fuel tank ?


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: maloosheck (EL_3grab)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EL_3grab* »_what you will be doing regarding the fuel tank ?

Replace with Golf Variant 4motion one. Unfortunately, when I was in EU, I could not find one. I have to order it from here.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: maloosheck (maloosheck)*

mike i may be coming across an R32 to strip. gotta see if it's gonna get bought back. 04 R32, if so..the tank is yours. give me a couple weeks to find out if it's a go, cos i am gonna pretty much keep everything from the car. i will talk to you when you get here this weekend


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

*Re: maloosheck (maloosheck)*

Wouldn't it be cheaper to source half Golf Variant and ship it? 
I'm thinking this way; I've found a lot of wrecked TDI 4motion hatchback on the net

Whish you all the best


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: maloosheck (Vegeta Gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vegeta Gti* »_mike i may be coming across an R32 to strip. gotta see if it's gonna get bought back. 04 R32, if so..the tank is yours. give me a couple weeks to find out if it's a go, cos i am gonna pretty much keep everything from the car. i will talk to you when you get here this weekend























Chris, the biggest PITA with the tank is it must be for DEEZHL... If I was sure both gasoline and diesel tanks are the some I would not bother and grab one from US-spec mk5 R32...


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: maloosheck (EL_3grab)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EL_3grab* »_I've found a lot of wrecked TDI 4motion hatchback on the net

Where?


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## cb1111 (Jun 5, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Cool!


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## traderdesk (Jan 22, 2007)

Just curious on how you will activate your stock ECU to think it is now running the haldex? Have you compared the code on your stock ECU to a ECU that is 4motion/haldex on? If it almost the same and only a two digit change i.e. 03 34 23 4f 23 etc and you need only one number to be switch like 0F to be substitute to 07 will your ECU accept the change? I will be very interested to see if you have done this...


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## Marshmallow Man (Jun 16, 2004)

*Re: (traderdesk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *traderdesk* »_Just curious on how you will activate your stock ECU to think it is now running the haldex? Have you compared the code on your stock ECU to a ECU that is 4motion/haldex on? If it almost the same and only a two digit change i.e. 03 34 23 4f 23 etc and you need only one number to be switch like 0F to be substitute to 07 will your ECU accept the change? I will be very interested to see if you have done this...

Interesting....didn't think about that one


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (traderdesk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *traderdesk* »_Just curious on how you will activate your stock ECU to think it is now running the haldex? Have you compared the code on your stock ECU to a ECU that is 4motion/haldex on? If it almost the same and only a two digit change i.e. 03 34 23 4f 23 etc and you need only one number to be switch like 0F to be substitute to 07 will your ECU accept the change? I will be very interested to see if you have done this...


ECU has (to my knowledge) nothing to do with Haldex. Haldex has its own independent controller that uses signals from misc sensors over CAN-BUS. The ECU does not even have to know about the existence of Haldex. This is based on what I have read about Haldex. The reality might be of course different.


----------



## rallydiesel (May 10, 2006)

You are truly insane.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (traderdesk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *traderdesk* »_Just curious on how you will activate your stock ECU to think it is now running the haldex?

I am trying to figure it out over here


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

Ok, here is few more shots and status update.
All the goodies collected so far (a starter is on its way):








Transmission:
































Transfer case:
























Haldex + Rear diff:
























Rear subframe:
















Rear axles:


----------



## keisuke_z (Sep 22, 2008)

This is pretty cool - I've been asking around trying to get more information on this... definitely confirmed the 4motion setup from a MkV R32 doesn't mate up to the 2.0T GTI DSG... however, with the new 2009 Audi A3 2.0t Quattro... Anyone have ideas on whether this could be the ultimate "bolt-on" project?


----------



## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

maloosheck, can you get me the DSG part# from the Audi TT-S








Starting parts hunting next week, aiming for whole R32 drivetrain, rear floor pan and fuel tank, minues the trans
I wish the FWD DSG can be tapped for the transfer case, hopefully I find out next week


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (EL_3grab)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EL_3grab* »_maloosheck, can you get me the DSG part# from the Audi TT-S









Is it already in ETKA? If so, I can probably try to find it.

_Quote, originally posted by *EL_3grab* »_Starting parts hunting next week, aiming for whole R32 drivetrain, rear floor pan and fuel tank, minues the trans

Are you located in NA? So far I have heard about ONE totalled mk5 R32...

_Quote, originally posted by *EL_3grab* »_I wish the FWD DSG can be tapped for the transfer case, hopefully I find out next week 

If nothing has changed since my '05 FWZ transmission - you CANNOT tap transfer case to FWD transmission. The main reason is the AWD tranny has *2 separate output shafts* on the right side: one for the front right axle (internal) and one for the rear drive shaft (external). Which means the case is most likely different and so is the differential.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_I wonder how much it weighs 

I will do the weight comparison when I will be installing all my parts.


----------



## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

FWD DSG, you can see the casted 4 holes for the T-Case









AWD DSG, drilled holes









FWD DSG side view, grinding that bulge down









AWD DSG, side view









T-Case, side view, 









I need to see whats underneath the right axle flange on the FWD DSG, a sticking shaft or a shaft housing like the AWD DSG? 


_Modified by EL_3grab at 6:24 PM 10-3-2008_


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (EL_3grab)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EL_3grab* »_I need to see whats underneath the right axle flange on the FWD DSG, a sticking shaft or a shaft housing like the AWD DSG?

That I do not know. But if you remove the flange, you should see. However, I highly doubt the differential has that second shaft output.


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

hey mike how is it comin?? can't wait to be back in DC to see this in person..we can compare projects :]

mis sya man!! looks good!!!!


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (EL_3grab)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EL_3grab* »_maloosheck, can you get me the DSG part# from the Audi TT-S









'09 TT-S 2.0 Quattro Gasoline (CDL) trannies:
DSG: KRF (02E 300 012 007), KNN (02E 300 012 CF 007
6MT: KNZ (02Q 300 011 CE)
'09 TT-S 2.0 Quattro Diesel (CBB) trannies:
6MT: KNW (02Q 300 011 CD)



_Modified by maloosheck at 10:42 AM 10-3-2008_


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Vegeta Gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vegeta Gti* »_hey mike how is it comin?? can't wait to be back in DC to see this in person..we can compare projects :] 

It is going pretty well. Tracked the flywheel/clutch kit, now looking for front axles and shaft (found some, negotiating the price














). Everything is in EU, so I am looking for some inexpensive transportation options. If I get the axles/shaft next month, I will try to send everything to get it before Xmas. And swap the tranny asap.
Man, I am going to need you here to help me out with all that crap when I collect everything.


----------



## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

*Re: (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
'09 TT-S 2.0 Quattro Gasoline (CDL) trannies:
DSG: KRF, KNN
6MT: KNZ
'09 TT-S 2.0 Quattro Diesel (CBB) trannies:
6MT: KNW


Thanks, any part# to check how much


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (EL_3grab)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EL_3grab* »_Thanks, any part# to check how much









Added above. But the part no. are different depending on the market. I would go and ask about KNN. This is the one used with 2.0L CDM engine (265HP).


_Modified by maloosheck at 10:50 AM 10-3-2008_


----------



## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

Finally!!!!!, the 200hp 2.0TFSI is available with 4motion and DSG
Check the 09 Audi TT, they list it as an option on Audiusa.com and Audi.de
Can't wait to see a salvage one












_Modified by EL_3grab at 8:25 PM 10-3-2008_


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (EL_3grab)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EL_3grab* »_Can't wait to see a salvage one









It will be as rare as totalled mk5 R32... I am waiting for 200HP Diesel version







.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

I know it does not have anything to do with the 4M, but here is some info: 5MT starter is different than 6MT starter. Plus 6MT diesel starter is different than 6MT gasser starter. Diesel starter needs twice as much juice to start the engine...


----------



## DHill (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_Ok, here is few more shots and status update.









Haldex + Rear diff:










Wow they really cleaned that up and made it clean and modular. The bolt-on transfer case seems like a no-brainer. That splined shaft adaptation for the axle output is a great idea.
Cars are destined to become as self explanatory as Legos.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Update:
Just got few bolts today and attached Haldex to subframe. Over the weekend I will try to attach the rear axles and what is more important transfer case to transmission. There is only one problem: there is one bolt attaching right axle flange to the differential that requires super long Allen M6 bit: 10-12 inches long. I need to ask at local VW if I could borrow one for few minutes.


----------



## volcomska (Mar 7, 2006)

*FV-QR*

'scribed.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SBAtdijetta (Mar 11, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_Update:
Just got few bolts today and attached Haldex to subframe. Over the weekend I will try to attach the rear axles and what is more important transfer case to transmission. There is only one problem: there is one bolt attaching right axle flange to the differential that requires super long Allen M6 bit: 10-12 inches long. I need to ask at local VW if I could borrow one for few minutes.
 You should be good friends with the local dealers by now...







Hopefully they will oblige and let you borrow it so you wont have to buy it for one time use...








Keep us posted, and good luck


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (SBAtdijetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SBAtdijetta* »_ You should be good friends with the local dealers by now...







Hopefully they will oblige and let you borrow it so you wont have to buy it for one time use...









I really wish, but it is not that easy. I am not a frequent visitor at the dealership


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_









Is it just me, or R32 uses rear subframe made of steel instead of alloy? I order the brake pipe from R32 that goes over the subframe from the left side to the right brake, and it does NOT fit. Fortunately, I can replace it for the one I need, so there is no problem, but I wonder why they changed subframe from alloy to steel: costs? safety?


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Do not count on ETKA...*

Here is a reason why you cannot count on ETKA:








2 years of production, the recent update, and still nothing







...


----------



## SBAtdijetta (Mar 11, 2007)

*Re: Do not count on ETKA... (maloosheck)*

Agreed, they told me the BRM PD TDI turbo and CEBA CR TDI turbo were the same part #, I even saw it with my own eyes...







but you already knew that!


----------



## R32dreamer17 (Oct 11, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

due i live in centreville and my father's office is in sterling, any way i could see this some time. real impressed. would love to do a conversion on my mk4


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (R32dreamer17)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32dreamer17* »_due i live in centreville and my father's office is in sterling, any way i could see this some time. real impressed. would love to do a conversion on my mk4

Mk4 is a complete different story. I am still not 100% sure I can complete my swap. Apparently, the chassis part over the fuel tank is different in FWD and 4WD Golf Variant. It bothers me a bit, but as long as do not have to touch the part where subframe is attached, I am fine.


----------



## R32dreamer17 (Oct 11, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

yeah yeah i know it's different. just wondering if i could see this. it's so sick what you're doing. good luck with the rest of the project.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (R32dreamer17)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32dreamer17* »_just wondering if i could see this.

Sure you can. Although let me clean my basement from the wires laying all around. I was extracting wires for few other projects (climatronic, headlight washers and inverter 115V) and there is a total mess.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

I stopped by today to ask about the tool I need, but they did not have one.
I am looking for VW special tool T10107 to borrow for a day or less. If you have one, or know the place that have one please let me know. It is a very long (12-14") Allen M6 key to attach right axle flange in mk5 r32 to the differential.










_Modified by maloosheck at 5:36 PM 10-18-2008_


----------



## R32dreamer17 (Oct 11, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

awesome. i go to odu and won't be in town again until around the end of november. would love to see a project like this. thanks a lot man.


----------



## mtbr297 (Jun 4, 2004)

It is only 16 bucks here.http://buy.equipmentsolutions.com/eqs_va/Net/ItemDetail.aspx?Search=True&Group_ID=25&Item_id=19262 Anyone can buy from this website. I buy tools there all the time. Cost less than the other vw tool dealers.


_Modified by mtbr297 at 8:55 AM 10-20-2008_


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (mtbr297)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mtbr297* »_It is only 16 bucks here.http://buy.equipmentsolutions.com/eqs_va/Net/ItemDetail.aspx?Search=True&Group_ID=25&Item_id=19262 Anyone can buy from this website. I buy tools there all the time. Cost less than the other vw tool dealers.

Thanks a lot. Super useful information.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*FV-QR*

A bit more of homework: fuel tanks.
FWD Golf 5:








AWD Golf 5 (R32):
































I need to raise the rear or my car sometime soon and do the inspection of the space where the fuel tank is located...


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*








nice job. 
Is there anything else, what I could do for you
I installed oem trailer hitch at last feb.
Couple pics from back:
http://tos.pp.fi/ffp/isotkuvat/DSC02999.JPG
http://tos.pp.fi/ffp/isotkuvat/DSC03009.JPG
http://tos.pp.fi/ffp/isotkuvat/DSC03012.JPG

I think that is smaller than *½*motion Golf?


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (jaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_Is there anything else, what I could do for you

Thanks for the info.
If you ever have a chance to take pictures under the car, I would be grateful. Also, the picture of the floor/chassis under the rear seats would be appreciated.


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

I have only this pic from under rear seat:
http://tos.pp.fi/ffp/isotkuvat/DSC03002.JPG
I cant access to under car... 
But I could try to take some pics.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (jaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_I have only this pic from under rear seat:
http://tos.pp.fi/ffp/isotkuvat/DSC03002.JPG

Thanks a lot. That should be very helpful.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

I ordered the tool I needed:








It goes deep







:
























So the transfer case is finally attached according to specs: 4 bolts M16, 40Nm and 1 bolt inside Allen M6, 33Nm.

















I have also attached Haldex to the subframe:

















In a mean time I found the auto-leveling sensor I got with the tranny:









Now shopping for front axles and shaft...


----------



## R32dreamer17 (Oct 11, 2007)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

nice dude. cant wait to see this thing.


----------



## ajz9415 (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: (R32dreamer17)*

Wow this looks like fun


----------



## SBAtdijetta (Mar 11, 2007)

*Re: (ajz9415)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ajz9415* »_Wow this looks like fun 
 LOL looks like tons of fun once it is done... Looks like hell until it is http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to Maloosheck for attempting his best DIY yet.


----------



## ZPrime (Mar 7, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Not going to fit in the back, if the Golf/Rabbit platform is any indication.
The R32 has a completely different spare tire area compared to a GTI/Rabbit. R32 has a smaller spare and shallower tire area, so there's actually less cargo room in an R32's hatch.
This is all done in order to push the floor up higher, so the more complex rear end + Haldex + split gas tank can fit.
If the Jetta TDI is at all like the Golf in this respect, you're going to run into problems when you try to bolt it all up.
All of this aside - I love your project page linked in your sig. The wiring pinouts for the compass module will be helpful as I want to add one to my MkV R32 which supposedly doesn't have the harness plug in the headliner where it belongs on a Golf...


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (ZPrime)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZPrime* »_Not going to fit in the back, if the Golf/Rabbit platform is any indication.
The R32 has a completely different spare tire area compared to a GTI/Rabbit. R32 has a smaller spare and shallower tire area, so there's actually less cargo room in an R32's hatch..

Yes thats true. I have also smaller trunk in my TDI. You can see that from my linked pictures








I hope that the trunk of jetta will be ok.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (ZPrime)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZPrime* »_The R32 has a completely different spare tire area compared to a GTI/Rabbit. R32 has a smaller spare and shallower tire area, so there's actually less cargo room in an R32's hatch.
This is all done in order to push the floor up higher, so the more complex rear end + Haldex + split gas tank can fit.
If the Jetta TDI is at all like the Golf in this respect, you're going to run into problems when you try to bolt it all up.

I am aware of that. The plan for the weekend is to rise the rear of the car and do all the measurements.
This is the picture I have taken when I was installing R32 rear sway bar in my Jetta. It seems there is enough space over the rear part of the sub-frame to accommodate haldex.









_Quote, originally posted by *ZPrime* »_All of this aside - I love your project page linked in your sig. The wiring pinouts for the compass module will be helpful as I want to add one to my MkV R32 which supposedly doesn't have the harness plug in the headliner where it belongs on a Golf...

If you look at For Sale stuff, you can find OEM compass wiring harness for sale. It might need to be extended for R32 purposes, but it is a good starting point.


_Modified by maloosheck at 12:20 PM 11-6-2008_


----------



## vex004 (Jun 7, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

added to watched topics


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (vex004)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vex004* »_added to watched topics
















What's AWP O2M







?


----------



## jimmygomk3 (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

excited to see more progress!!


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*FV-QR*

I might be shipping few more parts from EU soon: front axles, flywheel/clutch, starter, and not related to this project turbo.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (vex004)*









That is really going to make swaps into old chassis's alot nicer.


----------



## subspd (Oct 26, 2007)

I love this thread!


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Little update: I got the rear brake pipe today. Funny story is no VW in NA uses this line, only Audi. There was a bit of confusion at the dealership, but the order went through.








I am hoping the next thing I post here will be pics of stuff from EU...


----------



## bwzimmerman (Jun 16, 2007)

wow just amazing.. maybe I missed it.. but could you do a full parts list of items needed for this swap? I got a 2.0T jetta.. i guess our rides are the same except the gear ratio's..


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: (bwzimmerman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwzimmerman* »_wow just amazing.. maybe I missed it.. but could you do a full parts list of items needed for this swap? I got a 2.0T jetta.. i guess our rides are the same except the gear ratio's..

Maybe the gearbox from S3 will fit?


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (bwzimmerman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwzimmerman* »_wow just amazing.. maybe I missed it.. but could you do a full parts list of items needed for this swap? I got a 2.0T jetta.. i guess our rides are the same except the gear ratio's..

There is no such list yet. The reasons are as follows:
1. It will be extensive to list all the parts one by one
2. I still do not know all the parts that need to be swapped, e.g. I recently found out that 4Motion ABS module uses different duo/multiple sensor module.
3. It sounds impossible, but not all the parts are listed in ETKA, e.g. I could not find PN for oem exhaust for EU-spec Golf Variant 4M.


_Modified by maloosheck at 6:54 AM 11-22-2008_


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_

2. I still do not know all the parts that need to be swapped, e.g. I recently found out that 4Motion ABS module uses different 

Where I can found that information from my car
ABS module serial number?
Or perhaps complete scan will help?


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (jaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_Where I can found that information from my car ABS module serial number?

Thanks for your help, but it is not that easy.


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

http://tos.pp.fi/koukku/22112008.3gp


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (jaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_http://tos.pp.fi/koukku/22112008.3gp









I did not realize Golf V is used as a snow plough in Finland





















...


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
I did not realize Golf V is used as a snow plough in Finland





















... 

Many times








Someday I will shoot a better video with my sony handycam

Here are couple videos from winter driving academy of world rally champion. Recorded from TV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l5uXjZthJU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated
And his web site:
http://www.juhakankkunen.com/


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*FV-QR*

I know Juha Kankkunen. I used to watch WRC when I was in EU.
There are some excellent pictures on his website.
BTW The only words I got from the clips were Haldex, Torsen and ESP





















...


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_I know Juha Kankkunen. I used to watch WRC when I was in EU.
There are some excellent pictures on his website.
BTW The only words I got from the clips were Haldex, Torsen and ESP





















...








He says: Torsen is the *best*.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Two more items crossed out of the list: ABS pump/controller and ABS multi-sensor.
Bonus feature of the ABS controller I found is Hill-Holding. Not that I really need it, but it will be nice to have it (I wish I had it in San Fran







). I need to check if it requires additional button as in Tig or it works straight forward (as in my wife's MCS).


----------



## YoungMedic (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

so was it determined that the transfer case could be bolted to the US FWD 6MT? or would the input shaft not work? 
im glad i found this thread, i have been mulling an AWD conversion through my head for the last week or so. would the 02M 121C 4WD from the 2.0t S3 work on the GTI? 
also also you completely clarified the ?'s i had about how the Haldex controller works with the ECM. 
cheers! and good luck!


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (YoungMedic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *YoungMedic* »_so was it determined that the transfer case could be bolted to the US FWD 6MT? or would the input shaft not work? 

AFAIK no.

_Quote, originally posted by *YoungMedic* »_would the 02M 121C 4WD from the 2.0t S3 work on the GTI? 

That should work just fine.

_Quote, originally posted by *YoungMedic* »_also also you completely clarified the ?'s i had about how the Haldex controller works with the ECM. 

No, this is still open. If my ECM will not work, I will grab 2.0L TDI CR 170HP from EU Tig 4M and swap the engine




























.


----------



## YoungMedic (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

haha, way to work the problem! 
thanks


----------



## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

Subscribed...


----------



## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: mk5 Jetta/Golf 4motion conversion findings (maloosheck)*

Skimmed through this very interesting thread and didn't see this mentioned, but another reason the R32 rear pan is different is becasue the battery is in the trunk. Not sure if this is the same with other 4Motion MkVs.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: mk5 Jetta/Golf 4motion conversion findings (Pelican18TQA4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pelican18TQA4* »_Skimmed through this very interesting thread and didn't see this mentioned, but another reason the R32 rear pan is different is becasue the battery is in the trunk. Not sure if this is the same with other 4Motion MkVs.

2nd page:


----------



## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: mk5 Jetta/Golf 4motion conversion findings (maloosheck)*

Saw the pic, didn't see any reference to the battery. My mistake!


----------



## TGZ (Jul 7, 2003)

*Re: mk5 Jetta/Golf 4motion conversion findings (Pelican18TQA4)*

Good luck on the project! I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Berlinetta Boxer (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: mk5 Jetta/Golf 4motion conversion findings (maloosheck)*

Wow, I remembered this thread from when it started, but I'm glad that you've been finally making progress!
So why are you going with a dual mass flywheel instead of a single mass? If there isn't a difference in flywheels and clutches between FWD and AWD transmissions, then you should be able to use a G60 flywheel and VR6 clutch. Most people over at tdiclub.com would probably suggest this over a dual mass flywheel. I'm mostly curious, as these would be easier and cheaper to get than the ones from a PD170, though it looks like you've already got them.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: mk5 Jetta/Golf 4motion conversion findings (Berlinetta Boxer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Berlinetta Boxer* »_So why are you going with a dual mass flywheel instead of a single mass? If there isn't a difference in flywheels and clutches between FWD and AWD transmissions, then you should be able to use a G60 flywheel and VR6 clutch. Most people over at tdiclub.com would probably suggest this over a dual mass flywheel. I'm mostly curious, as these would be easier and cheaper to get than the ones from a PD170, though it looks like you've already got them.

The mayor reason is PD170 (and all PD100, PD140) in mk5 Golf/Jetta paired with 6MT tranny use 240mm clutch. G60/VR6 is 228mm.
The other reason are vibrations from SMF.
I am planning to keep my G60/VR6 setup just in case I decide to go back to it, but at this point I want to try PD170 DMF/clutch.


----------



## rallydiesel (May 10, 2006)

I admire your DIY-ness but if I was looking for an AWD TDI, I would wait for an xdrive BMW 335d or a 4motion 170 hp Passat CC.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (rallydiesel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rallydiesel* »_I admire your DIY-ness but if I was looking for an AWD TDI, I would wait for an xdrive BMW 335d or a 4motion 170 hp Passat CC.

And I would wait for R8 V12 TDI







.
Not sure if 335xd will ever come to US. Plus it will most likely be in auto only. Same with CC: current gasser vr6 is sold with auto (not-DSG) only. The stupidest configuration ever invented.
But I would love Audi A4 Avant with V6 TDI 6MT AWD. The day it hits this shore, I wrap up my Jetta and let it go.


----------



## R32dreamer17 (Oct 11, 2007)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

hey i'm the dude who lives in cville and asked about a month ago or so if i could come see your project in sterling. looks really cool just wonderin you'd still be down to let me see it.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (R32dreamer17)*

IM sent.


----------



## R32dreamer17 (Oct 11, 2007)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

saw you im'd me. not quite sure when. I can let you know tomorrow probably and then I guess we'll also see when would be convenient for you.


----------



## ShadowGLI (Oct 27, 2006)

Wow, this looks great, I had thought about this on my GLI but did not have the money or time, can't wait to see this finished.. great work so far.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*FV-QR*

I was able to locate the 4M TDI fuel tank real cheap. The problem is this thing is big, so my carrier will not be able to bring it here. Any leads for how to have it shipped here in the least expensive way are highly appreciated.
Anybody stationing in EU, who plans to come back soon and could help me with that?


_Modified by maloosheck at 9:38 AM 12-31-2008_


----------



## Gotsol (Jan 25, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

any updates? Great project!


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Gotsol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gotsol* »_any updates? Great project!

Not much. Have a bunch of stuff to ship from EU and looking for the most inexpensive option. Once it all is here, I should be able to start tranny swap.


----------



## Hello Bob (Dec 22, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

A+++ on this project. You should get a PhD in Volkswagens when you're done with this.







I was thinking of doing a 4-motion GTI myself, and your thread has encouraged me even more. Anyway you can post a gathered list of all the parts you would need? Also, how are you setting the coding? With a normal ROSStech VAG cable?


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Hello Bob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hello Bob* »_Anyway you can post a gathered list of all the parts you would need?

As soon as I finalize the project, the parts will be listed. At this point it is hard to determine if I still need anything else.

_Quote, originally posted by *Hello Bob* »_Also, how are you setting the coding? With a normal ROSStech VAG cable?









Now, this is an excellent question, but I do not know the answer. Everything can be coded with VCDS, but the list of modules that need to be recoded is still unknown.


----------



## Hello Bob (Dec 22, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

Bro- you're my hero. I will reward you with my hot asian wife after this project is over.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Hello Bob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hello Bob* »_Bro- you're my hero. I will reward you with my hot asian wife after this project is over.









If my wife reads that, the project will never be finished, because she will kill me first





















.


----------



## Hello Bob (Dec 22, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
If my wife reads that, the project will never be finished, because she will kill me first





















.

If *MY* wife reads that, I won't be able to read the rest of your write ups!


----------



## Teknojnky (Jun 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

any updates?


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Teknojnky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Teknojnky* »_any updates?

Hopefully by the end of March I should have all I need for tranny swap in my hands.


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

Hi..
I found some weird oil leak (maybe) from bevel box.
http://tos.pp.fi/images/album/vuoto/
^_It needs */ *to the end, and then the adress should work._
Did you have any pictures; if there is some kind of breather tube or something in bevel box or gearbox?
I checked oil levels: normal
Thanx








ps. I also updated my front bumber:
http://tos.pp.fi/images/album/puskuri//

_Modified by jaah at 9:00 AM 2-26-2009_

_Modified by jaah at 9:00 AM 2-26-2009_


_Modified by jaah at 9:25 AM 2-26-2009_


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (jaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_I found some weird oil leak (maybe) from bevel box.
http://tos.pp.fi/images/image/vuoto/DSC00104.JPG


What is this wire connected to? Oil level sensor in the oil pan?


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
What is this wire connected to? Oil level sensor in the oil pan?

Yes thats it


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (jaah)*

I found this from etka, 5B
There is a breather. 
Maybe I have just a little hope, and it was frozen and then just a few oil comes out.


_Modified by jaah at 7:42 PM 2-26-2009_


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Update: ok, I found a fuel tank and a shaft. And Rich from oempl.us offered his help with shipping everything to US. The last parts missing are rear hubs, which I can source here.
So hopefully next winter / snow driving will be easier with a little help of 4Motion...


----------



## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

All the best http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (EL_3grab)*

sorry if this is common knowledge already, but you'll need the front diff out of a AWD car and if you use a FWD bell housing, you'll need to rip it all down and swap the AWD front diff in....
Again sorry if its common knowledge I just ran through this with my syncro... I put O2J gearset in my 02c.


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

pm sent


----------



## VeeJ (Jul 2, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Zupek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zupek* »_sorry if this is common knowledge already, but you'll need the front diff out of a AWD car and if you use a FWD bell housing, you'll need to rip it all down and swap the AWD front diff in....
Again sorry if its common knowledge I just ran through this with my syncro... I put O2J gearset in my 02c.

Well....I think he has the entire transmission from a 4motion, so that really shouldn't apply.
But I did manage to take a look under a wrecked MK5 R32. Why I was underneath an unstable wrecked R32 probably should be asked....but I did notice some major differences that might make this conversion a little more complicated. The rear end does look like it would accomodate a 4motion setup with the gas tank, I think thats what people have been saying and im almost 100% positive that it would. I think It would be almost stupid cost wise for VW not to make a similar setup for both considering that all MK5s are IRS. I did notice some sort driveshaft mount that is not there on the FWD models. Im going to take a stab and say that this will most likely needed to be welded on in the exhaust tunnel in a FWD car. 
About the rear floor pan situation and the battery. What I would recommend is *comparing other 4motion 4cyl models with FWD 4cyl models*. From what I have noticed is that all MK5 V6 models have the battery in the rear, and have a different floor pan. I know this because if you ever take a chance to look at a FWD 3.2 Eos, it has the battery in the rear. I managed to find a pic of a MK2 TT rear pan in which both the 3.2 and 2.0t have the batteries in the rear.








The GTI and most other 4cyl MK5 chassis cars do not have this recessed area for the battery. Which led me to believe that maybe all MK5 chassis 4motion cars have this recessed area. *BUT* then i got curious to see what the Audi S3 battery setup was since it was on an MK5 chassis and it has a 2.0t with 4motion. And voila....no rear battery. It is front mounted. Heres a pic of an s3 engine bay...it was all I could find, but you can see the battery tray on the right.








This makes me believe that the only reason why the rear pans are different is because of the battery tray in the rear. The non-V6/4motion and S3 will not have this recessed area. So from what I gathered it looks like it may be a direct swap considering the driveshaft mount. Does anyone have an etka diagram of an Audi S3?


----------



## VeeJ (Jul 2, 2007)

I have asked an overseas friend that actually has an 8p S3 to take a pic of his rear floor pan. So we will hopefully see what the difference is. Or what I might do is go down and take a peek at the NA '09 Audi A3 2.0t quattro and take a few pics, and hopefully the battery is in the front. That would be the easiest way as we should have quite a few in our local dealers.


----------



## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (VeeJ)*

The VR6-equipped cars have the battery in the rear because the airbox resides where the battery does in the 2.0T and 2.5 cars. The Eos doesn't have room for a 12v battery so it has two 6v batteries which are each much smaller. I am not 100% sure about the Passat 3.6 VR6, but I believe it too has the battery in the rear, regardless of FWD or 4MOTION.


----------



## VeeJ (Jul 2, 2007)

Yes thats exactly why all MK5 VR6 have a different rear floor pan, which is why the MK5 R32 will have a different rear pan. Ive just been reading a few post throughout this entire thread stating that the R32 pan is different and this is why.


----------



## FLASHGORDON1970 (Mar 17, 2009)

Good luck in your conversion. I registered here because of this thread I came across in a google search and I will be subscribing. I hope to learn a lot because I think doing an awd conversion to my gli would be pretty cool... It looks like you're pretty far along. Best of luck to you!!!! Take lots of pics


----------



## raddo (Dec 22, 1999)

*Re: (FLASHGORDON1970)*

I just found this thread, and the reason I posting is my buddy bought a stock 2.5 golf and put the whole drivetrain from a wrecked MK5 r32 in it. The car was way slow because he kept the 2.5 in it, but was cool none the less. About a month an a half ago he was T boned pulling out of his shop







he was fine but the car was done. I don't know what all was involved in the swap, but its very doable


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (raddo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *raddo* »_I just found this thread, and the reason I posting is my buddy bought a stock 2.5 golf and put the whole drivetrain from a wrecked MK5 r32 in it. The car was way slow because he kept the 2.5 in it, but was cool none the less. About a month an a half ago he was T boned pulling out of his shop







he was fine but the car was done. I don't know what all was involved in the swap, but its very doable

How did he match 2.5 with vr6 transmission? Any codes from Haldex due to a different ECU?


----------



## raddo (Dec 22, 1999)

*Re: (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
How did he match 2.5 with vr6 transmission? Any codes from Haldex due to a different ECU?

Don't know what is involved, but I will find out this weekend


----------



## Hello Bob (Dec 22, 2007)

*Re: (raddo)*

Who's gonna skip the headache and just buy the new R20 GTI-R that's suppoed to come out?


----------



## R32dreamer17 (Oct 11, 2007)

*Re: (Hello Bob)*

ive read various updates and reports on the rgti. both say 270 bhp stock but the reports vary as to whether or not that power will be put to all four wheels or just the front two.


_Modified by R32dreamer17 at 7:37 PM 3-21-2009_


----------



## 79RabbitDSL (Mar 26, 2003)

*Re: (Hello Bob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hello Bob* »_Who's gonna skip the headache and just buy the new R20 GTI-R that's suppoed to come out?

does it get 40 mpg? if not than i'd take the headache and stick with a TDI.


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: (79RabbitDSL)*


----------



## TurboVWCoupe (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

I've been contemplating converting to AWD on my 2.0t for a month or two now. This thread is very educational and exciting. The only other thing I can say is.. WOW, I can't wait to see how it turns out. 


_Modified by TurboVWCoupe at 9:44 PM 3-25-2009_


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: (jaah)*

New video..
Front summertyres and rear wintertyres with spikes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kJvKnA_qXg


----------



## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: (jaah)*

Cool vid and wow, the rear tires were spinning like crazy; not what I expected!


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: (Pelican18TQA4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pelican18TQA4* »_ the rear tires were spinning like crazy; not what I expected!

Yes thats weird. Maybe the right front wheel spinning also


----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

Thats the reason I prefer quattro/4motion, but haledex is better than nothing.


----------



## FLASHGORDON1970 (Mar 17, 2009)

So, any more progress on the AWD conversion?


----------



## YoungMedic (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: (raddo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *raddo* »_I just found this thread, and the reason I posting is my buddy bought a stock 2.5 golf and put the whole drivetrain from a wrecked MK5 r32 in it. The car was way slow because he kept the 2.5 in it, but was cool none the less. About a month an a half ago he was T boned pulling out of his shop







he was fine but the car was done. I don't know what all was involved in the swap, but its very doable

and there are no pictures or any concrete evidence this car exists right? did it vaporize after it was Tboned?


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (FLASHGORDON1970)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FLASHGORDON1970* »_So, any more progress on the AWD conversion?

At this point I am trying to arrange the shipment of remaining parts from EU. Most likely it will be around June/July, since I have to physically go there, pack everything and deliver to the carrier. So I would expect August/September to be the most likely timing for the next step. In a mean time, I still need to find rear hubs and find a solution for the exhaust.


----------



## !!DV!! (Apr 4, 2009)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

Received my 2.0 TDI 4Motion earlier this week, being the European GT Sport Spec it is not far off being on par with a baseline GTI, here in New Zealand. Missing the Moon-roof and Red brake callipers. 
Did notice the boot is not as deep as a FWD Golf MKV, no full size spare wheel and the battery box under the boot liner - unused.


----------



## gokartgti (Apr 4, 2009)

*Re: (!!DV!!)*

waiting in anticipation. a very sweet write up if I may say so and good pics to go. 
For the T-boned friend any chance that pics can be taken from under the car if possible to give us all a scope of any other issues that may arise and to give a heads up to our DIY man.
Actually any ideas if the Quattro system of a late model S3 will bolt into the GTI floor


_Modified by gokartgti at 7:17 PM 4-4-2009_


----------



## Hello Bob (Dec 22, 2007)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

I must ask... Why did you go through the hassel of ordering all these parts from Europe, and not just use parts from the R32?


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Hello Bob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hello Bob* »_I must ask... Why did you go through the hassel of ordering all these parts from Europe, and not just use parts from the R32?









Simple:
1. I drive diesel
2. I drive stick
3. I drive in-line engine


----------



## rallydiesel (May 10, 2006)

*Re: (!!DV!!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *!!DV!!* »_Received my 2.0 TDI 4Motion earlier this week, being the European GT Sport Spec it is not far off being on par with a baseline GTI, here in New Zealand.

I hate you.


----------



## Hello Bob (Dec 22, 2007)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

no, no, no... I ment the 4-motion parts. Why didn't you use the drive train parts from the R32?


----------



## mercury26 (Aug 20, 2004)

*Re: (Hello Bob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hello Bob* »_no, no, no... I ment the 4-motion parts. Why didn't you use the drive train parts from the R32?

If you read the thread from the beginning, you will get your answer.
Cheers,
Chuck


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*FV-QR*

*Due to unexpected change of my situation (lay off) the project is officially postponed. Since I might need to leave US soon, I am also considering selling all the parts I have collected so far and transfer all my knowledge to somebody interested in continuing this project.*


----------



## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

In for discussion....!


----------



## 79RabbitDSL (Mar 26, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_*Due to unexpected change of my situation (lay off) the project is officially postponed. Since I might need to leave US soon, I am also considering selling all the parts I have collected so far and transfer all my knowledge to somebody interested in continuing this project.*

Bummer Man. Maybe you can get some stimulus money to keep this going?







If you do decide to sell all the parts please keep me posted, Gonna have to take a harder look at the sportwagen rear floor and exhaust system now... Good luck with the job hunt, its no fun right now I know.


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_*Due to unexpected change of my situation (lay off) the project is officially postponed. Since I might need to leave US soon, I am also considering selling all the parts I have collected so far and transfer all my knowledge to somebody interested in continuing this project.*

Good luck!!!!! 
I still hope that we will got 4motion Jetta someday








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

Sorry to hear about your situation.
Could you email me [email protected]
Thanks.


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Audi4u)*

don't leave meeee miikkkkeee


----------



## rissa422 (Jan 17, 2009)

thats suck man. I'm looking seriously into doing this swap on my gti.
I may be buying a r32 drivetrain with my friend as he needs the motor.
let me know if your selling...
also does anyone know if i could take the splitter and front diff out of the r32 dsg trans and swap it into the 6mt gti trans?


----------



## braupe (Jun 7, 2008)

Watching this, can't wait to see the results.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (braupe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *braupe* »_can't wait to see the results.

Me too. I am pretty pissed off I cannot complete it this summer. I have almost everything I need, I just need to ship it here... Hopefully in Fall I should be able to swap the tranny...


----------



## cgstetson (May 27, 2009)

*Re: mk5 Jetta/Golf 4motion conversion findings (maloosheck)*

hey Maloosheck..I saw you did the window trim and was wondering where i could buy the chrome..also looked at your webpage...dude, your awesome.


----------



## burningchrome (May 1, 2004)

*Re: mk5 Jetta/Golf 4motion conversion findings (cgstetson)*

Just looked at this thread. Have you tried getting in contact with any military members stationed in Germany? For some remuneration they might be willing to pick up the parts and ship them via APO to you. There's a Germany forum on here.


----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*FV-QR*

progress?


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_progress?

Checking out the cheapest option to ship another load of parts from EU...


----------



## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
Checking out the cheapest option to ship another load of parts from EU...

What about a wrecked A3 AWD or an R32?


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B3sat16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B3sat16v* »_What about a wrecked A3 AWD or an R32? 

Wrecked R32? Right, I saw one or two to date. The power train was for sale as a WHOLE. No parting...


----------



## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
Wrecked R32? Right, I saw one or two to date. The power train was for sale as a WHOLE. No parting...

the underground one? That seemed like a crazy good deal


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
Wrecked R32? Right, I saw one or two to date. The power train was for sale as a WHOLE. No parting...

they are parted out all the time. cruise the classifieds forums, and they appear on a somewhat regular basis.


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (undercoverdubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *undercoverdubber* »_the underground one? That seemed like a crazy good deal

If you have a gasser with DSG - yes. I have a Diesel with a stick. I did check the classifieds. I asked everytime about the parts I was looking for (right now it is just rear hubs, the rest needs just to be shipped from my folks' place in EU). Everytime it was the whole powertrain for sale, no parting.


----------



## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
If you have a gasser with DSG - yes. I have a Diesel with a stick. I did check the classifieds. I asked everytime about the parts I was looking for (right now it is just rear hubs, the rest needs just to be shipped from my folks' place in EU). Everytime it was the whole powertrain for sale, no parting.

You can always get a 02M from a MKIV R32 and besides the front splitter should technically be the same for all trannies!


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (B3sat16v)*

This thread was the perfect reason to not get off of Vortex 20 minutes ago...bookmarked, I have to keep up with this level or car-geekness


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

I just wondering if I find haldex4 from golf6 or octavia 2 facelift.







Is it possible to replace my haldex2 unit.


----------



## Burnitwithfire (May 14, 2005)

*FV-QR*

I'm watching this! I hate the fact that VW only offers AWD in their more expensive models. I'd love an AWD Rabbit. My syncro is great but 500k km takes its toll on a car no matter what.


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

I tried some EDS/EDL working:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfLiwt2J6pg
When I stopped - 2 wheels up, and 2 wheels scratching to ground. 
It need some time and more gas to move...










_Modified by jaah at 10:10 PM 8-2-2009_


----------



## jetta9103 (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (jaah)*

Hmm...just a bit more explanation what you were doing?
In forward gear, simply engaging the clutch and applying throttle? What we see is solely the car's response to that?


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: (jetta9103)*

It's like this - Cross hanging 
EDS system braking different tyres to transfer power from spinning wheel...

It need some time to work








(My english is not so good, apologizes.) 



_Modified by jaah at 10:28 PM 8-2-2009_


----------



## Burnitwithfire (May 14, 2005)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_It's like this - Cross hanging 
EDS system braking different tyres to transfer power from spinning wheel...

It need some time to work








(My english is not so good, apologizes.) 

Ahhh I see. My syncro wouldn't even move an inch if one front and one rear wheel was in the air.


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Black Smokin' Diesel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black Smokin’ Diesel* »_
Ahhh I see. My syncro wouldn't even move an inch if one front and one rear wheel was in the air.








That is the point








Thanks


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Black Smokin' Diesel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black Smokin’ Diesel* »_
Ahhh I see. My syncro wouldn't even move an inch if one front and one rear wheel was in the air.

just put your left foot on the brake lightly to load the diff, and it'll move just fine.


----------



## Burnitwithfire (May 14, 2005)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
just put your left foot on the brake lightly to load the diff, and it'll move just fine.










I'm thinking the e-brake would work as well but only on the rear wheels.


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
just put your left foot on the brake lightly to load the diff, and it'll move just fine.









Did you know about brake (-light) switch?
It cuts all power from engine if you press brake (same time when pressing more gas).









And also haldex cuts power from real wheels when pressing brake.
The E-brake trick works.

_Modified by jaah at 8:24 AM 8-3-2009_


_Modified by jaah at 8:25 AM 8-3-2009_


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (jaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_
Did you know about brake (-light) switch?
It cuts all power from engine if you press brake (same time when pressing more gas).








And also haldex cuts power from real wheels when pressing brake.
E-brake trick works.

_Modified by jaah at 8:24 AM 8-3-2009_

but we're talking about syncro, and syncro doesnt have either of those kill functions








but E brake opens the rear diff on a haldex car, making it front wheel drive.










_Modified by TBT-Syncro at 10:27 PM 8-2-2009_


----------



## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
but we're talking about syncro, and syncro doesnt have either of those kill functions









I know


----------



## jash322 (Jul 29, 2009)

not to sound totally trerared but could an older audi model of some sort be used as parts to make a MK3 AWD or even just RWD


----------



## Burnitwithfire (May 14, 2005)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *jash322* »_not to sound totally trerared but could an older audi model of some sort be used as parts to make a MK3 AWD or even just RWD


Most audi have a longitudinal engine and uses a torsen based setup which won't fit in a tranverse engine bay without major mods. Better off going syncro or haldex.


----------



## jash322 (Jul 29, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Black Smokin' Diesel)*

Most audi have a longitudinal engine and uses a torsen based setup which won't fit in a tranverse engine bay without major mods. Better off going syncro or haldex.
ok...thanks what cars (if any) was the syncro or haldex allwheeldrive system used on or is it just an after market kit to make mkII/III awd. and could u direct me to an area where i could see others that have gone through with this
thanks josh


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## Burnitwithfire (May 14, 2005)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *jash322* »_
ok...thanks what cars (if any) was the syncro or haldex allwheeldrive system used on or is it just an after market kit to make mkII/III awd. and could u direct me to an area where i could see others that have gone through with this
thanks josh



The 1992 passat syncro is your best bet. Canada only though.


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## jash322 (Jul 29, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Black Smokin' Diesel)*

92 canadian passat great im in alliston(canadian home of honda







) so that shouldnt be to difficult to find


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## Slickvic (Apr 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (jash322)*

subscribed.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

The rear subframe crossmember has an additional lower brace that is not standard on the US R32. Where was this subframe sourced from?


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## rallydiesel (May 10, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (jash322)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jash322* »_92 canadian passat great im in alliston(canadian home of honda







) so that shouldnt be to difficult to find

There's several threads on this conversion, best to search and check the mk2 forums. You will have to do a fair bit of chassis welding.


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## jash322 (Jul 29, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (rallydiesel)*

thanks vary much searching and taking notes you have been vary helpful(ill probly get a shop to do the welding, even though welding can be fun)


----------



## vwgtimk41088 (Nov 1, 2007)

very interested in this. an AWD Jetta is what i want.
subscribed


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## excursion (Nov 25, 2006)

I've been working with this drivetrain for a while, and have compared facelift and pre-facelift drivetrain here:
http://www.mwstewart.co.uk/art...tab-8/
I explain some of the differences between early alloy and late steel subframes etc.
Cheers


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

Time for some update. I just came back from EU.
I was able to ship *most* of the missing parts:
1. Dual Mass Flywheel + Clutch from BMN (170HP) TDI engine
2. Starter for 6MT TDI
3. Front Axles
4. Main shaft
5. 4M ABS pump and controller
6. Multisensor for 4M ABS controller
7. 4M Fuel Tank
As soon as parts arrive, I will post the pictures.
In a meantime I have learnt the 4M tank has a second fuel gauge sensor connected to the cluster. This means I will have to cut a hole in the chassis below the rear seat on the left side. It is also where the Haldex is connected to the main harness. In addition, it seams the tank is attached to the chassis using U shaped holders. Unfortunately, for 4M tank the bolts are also located in a different spots, so it will not be as plug and play as I initially thought.



_Modified by maloosheck at 8:14 AM 10-5-2009_


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*FV-QR*

1. Fuel tank - this thing is the biggest PITA to transport. It is ONE freaking piece. No way to detach the inlet.








2. Front axles:








3. Propeller shaft - this is early 2-piece version. The one used in US-spec '08 R32 is one piece (no way to split it).
Front part:








Rear part:








4. ABS pump + module:








5. ABS multisensor:








6. Starter for TDI 6MT:








---
Time to move this project forward. The only things I will be fabricating locally is exhaust.
I am also looking for LuK distributor in US. I need to find out if I can get single mass flywheel replacement for 240mm 6MT clutch I brought. I am hesitant to install DMF back...


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (jaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Do you have any pictures of the bottom of your car?
I need few shots around transfer case and along the exhaust.


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
Do you have any pictures of the bottom of your car?
I need few shots around transfer case and along the exhaust.

I have only these shots, when the bevel box drops oil..
http://tos.pp.fi/images/album/vuoto/
I will try shoot some new pix with "real camera" soon


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (jaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_http://tos.pp.fi/images/album/vuoto

File not found?


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
File not found?


Hmm..
Use copy and paste, because the adress needs / -mark at the end.


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## Teknojnky (Jun 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

once it's all said and done, can you make a complete list of all the parts needed?


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
Do you have any pictures of the bottom of your car?
I need few shots around transfer case and along the exhaust.

Some new pix:
http://tos.pp.fi/images/album/golf/alusta/ 
Remember /, use copy & paste.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (jaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_ http://tos.pp.fi/images/album/golf/alusta/ 

Thanks, I appreciate. It helps a lot.


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*








If you need more, feel free to ask it








Today is the time for winter tyres (with spikes). 
As you can see in first pic...
It is legal in finland.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (jaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_







If you need more, feel free to ask it









I would be grateful for few pictures of a transfer case bracket to the engine.


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
I would be grateful for few pictures of a transfer case bracket to the engine.

Hmm.. I cant remove that engine bottom cover plate... 
Or where exactly?


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## crawl (Sep 24, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (jaah)*

Just sow on MK5 forum that DM Motorsport/Unitronic quattro Bunny go AWD working: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=4
sorry, if re-post.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

Got my special tools last night.
And went through (hopefully) all the procedures I have to do and made a list of bolts and nuts I have to replace. I did not realize bunch of bolts can be THAT expensive...


_Modified by maloosheck at 8:50 AM 11-3-2009_


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Ok, I need:
- about 200 bolts, nuts and washers
- 6 litres of different types of oil (tranny, haldex, differential)
- few brackets, seals, orings
- haldex wiring, 2 plugs, few contacts and grommets
Bottom line: $$$
That causes one problem: go with the DMF I have or save a bit more and go with non-OEM SMF...


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

A bit more research I had a chance to do today. I was checking the 4M fuel tank bolt spots and here is what I found.
*Rear right:*








The spot seems to be the same as in 4M.
*Rear left:*








Again, the spot seems to be the same as in 4M.
*Rear centre:*
FWD fuel tank does not allow to see that area. I would have to assume there is no bolt/nut.
*Front right:*








Again, the spot seems to be the same as in 4M.
*Front left:*








The spot is THERE, there is no hole. And most likely there is no nut on the other side. I plan to drill the hole and check. If there is no nut, I will use cage nut or rivetted nut.
*Front middle:*
















It looks exactly like 4M attachment for the heat shield.
In fact few other guys have already tried to install the 4M fuel tank in fwd body (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4292438&page=4) and it looks like my assumptions are correct.
Now, I just realize I am going to have slightly bigger problem with two other things:
1. Shaft - the one I have is from early Golf body and it was attached to the chassis inside the tunnel:








Same as this one:








I was not able to check under the heat-shield if these two spots are there. I need to remove whole exhaust to remove the heat-shield and get the one dedicated for 4M. If these spots are not there, I have to fabricate a bracket to attach to the bottom of chassis, same as in Tiguan:








BTW Tiguan shaft is just ONE piece per ETKA, so even if I would like to use Tiguan bracket, I have to buy whole shaft. Bloody VW...
2. Exhaust - I initially hoped I have keep my original downpipe. Unfortunately, I have to move it to the right a bit to accommodate shaft. Compare picture above with my car:








That can be done, hopefully with a little welding effort, or just custom straight downpipe. However, the bigger problem is behind the rear subframe. Here is how the 4M Golf exhaust is routed:








Here is Jetta trunk:








I wanted to avoid any body modifications, so I have to figure out what to do with that. I already have R32 narrow spare, so I could just cut that bloody spare wheel well by half.


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## TiCk_FLiP (Apr 7, 2009)

Hey Maloo... cant see the pics...


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (TiCk_FLiP)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TiCk_FLiP* »_Hey Maloo... cant see the pics...









Me neither. As soon as I set up my home sever all the pics will be hosted there.


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## NJRoadfan (Sep 16, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
Here is Jetta trunk:








I wanted to avoid any body modifications, so I have to figure out what to do with that. I already have R32 narrow spare, so I could just cut that bloody spare wheel well by half.

Is there a 4-Motion TDI Sportwagen? It might have exhaust parts you can use. Otherwise a skilled exhaust shop could likely rig something up.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (NJRoadfan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NJRoadfan* »_Is there a 4-Motion TDI Sportwagen? It might have exhaust parts you can use. Otherwise a skilled exhaust shop could likely rig something up.

There is. With DPF as far as I recall. Either way: it will be cheaper to fab it here.


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

I changed gear oil and differential oil.
Couple new pix:
http://tos.pp.fi/images/album/golf/alusta/etu/
^Remember latest / -mark, use copy & paste if link wont work.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (jaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_I changed gear oil and differential oil.









That's exactly what I needed.


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


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## throttle grotto (Oct 30, 2000)

*FV-QR*

going to watch this one..


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## NJRoadfan (Sep 16, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (jaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_I changed gear oil and differential oil.
Couple new pix:
http://tos.pp.fi/images/album/golf/alusta/etu/
^Remember latest / -mark, use copy & paste if link wont work.

Wow, the area around the down pipe is REALLY tight on these cars. I thought the quattros I own were tight underneath.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (NJRoadfan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NJRoadfan* »_Wow, the area around the down pipe is REALLY tight on these cars. I thought the quattros I own were tight underneath.

He has BKD. Turbocharger is below manifold. In BRM turbo is upside down so there is more space.


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## rissa422 (Jan 17, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

Hey maloo, i finally got around to bolting everything up in the car.
There aren't nuts for the driverside fuel tank mount and the rear center is missing a bracket I took of the r. This bracket is welded on. Everything else lined up the same. You could eyeball where to drill to add nuts to the driverside if you wanted to. There is an embosed circle where the nut would go in the front and in the rear the nut is about one inch straight back from a plug in the floor.


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## rissa422 (Jan 17, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

O I always forget to mention that the passenger rear brake line is different as it mounts to the rear subframe which is different for 4m. You could bend it to make it work.
The abs wires are also different (too long) and need to be adjusted a
bit or switched for the r ones.
Also I'm just leaving the float sensor on the driver side of the tank unplugged. It seems unneccesary anyway.
I'm hoping to get sometime to pull apart the r wiring harness and take a look at how the haldex wiring is ran throughout the car. 
Its nice to have the luxury of a parts car.


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## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (rissa422)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rissa422* »_Also I'm just leaving the float sensor on the driver side of the tank unplugged. It seems unneccesary anyway.

It's there for a reason. The fuel level in each 1/2 of the tank is monitored and there's an internal pump that equalizes the fuel level in each 1/2. Without both floats connected, I'd venture to guess that you will have a highly inaccurate fuel gauge.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (rissa422)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rissa422* »_There aren't nuts for the driverside fuel tank mount and the rear center is missing a bracket I took of the r.

I already got the rivet nut for the rear driverside mount of the U shape bracket. I might use the same rivet nut for rear center spot.

_Quote, originally posted by *rissa422* »_O I always forget to mention that the passenger rear brake line is different as it mounts to the rear subframe which is different for 4m. You could bend it to make it work.

I already got that line and attached it to the subframe. I have a aluminium alloy subframe and my brake line comes from TT.

_Quote, originally posted by *rissa422* »_The abs wires are also different (too long) and need to be adjusted a bit or switched for the r ones.

They are on the list of parts to get







.

_Quote, originally posted by *rissa422* »_Also I'm just leaving the float sensor on the driver side of the tank unplugged. It seems unneccesary anyway.

As Dave mentioned above: it is necessary to accurately determine the fuel level. And if you have the part car wiring harness, just take it. It is just one wire to the cluster (and power or ground in addition to that).

_Quote, originally posted by *rissa422* »_I'm hoping to get sometime to pull apart the r wiring harness and take a look at how the haldex wiring is ran throughout the car.

Oh, that's easy. There is a separate harness going over the fuel tank from the Haldex to the top of the fuel gauge sensor (the left one). From that place you have a connector to the main wiring harness. And the wires are as follows as far as I recall: power, ground, CAN-LOW, CAN-HIGH, brake, hand-brake.
The easiest way is to separate this harness at fuse box, CECM and CAN-Gateway.

_Quote, originally posted by *rissa422* »_Its nice to have the luxury of a parts car.

I was trying to get the wiring harness of the R32 from the junk yard, but I cannot justify $400 for just two connectors and few wires.


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## MaxHedrm (Jun 28, 2004)

What about losing the rear muffler altogether?


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (MaxHedrm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MaxHedrm* »_What about losing the rear muffler altogether?

There will be a straight pipe right after the cat. No muffler, no resonator.


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## rissa422 (Jan 17, 2009)

So the gas gauge will really be that affected by the lack of the second float? 
I opened the tank up and sloshed the gas around a lot and it seemed to level quickly even without the leveling pump. It looked as though it wouldn't be any worse than the sloshing in an open tank, perhaps better as the tank is essentially baffled and does a good job of leveling both sides.
either way, I may just hook it up


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Time for some update. Rear wheel bearing housings arrived:


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## .badrabbit. (Jul 8, 2008)

moree!


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (.badrabbit.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.badrabbit.* »_moree!

Soon. I am really desperate to complete this project asap.


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## ShadowGLI (Oct 27, 2006)

I am so happy this is still happening.. can't wait to see it finished up.. You need to drive to snow and do some doughnuts and drifts with your car..haha


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: (ShadowGLI)*

jus say the word..and i'll fly in for an extra set of hands my friend.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Vegeta Gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vegeta Gti* »_jus say the word..and i'll fly in for an extra set of hands my friend.









I am going to need them. I have to lower the subframe to accomodate 4M tranny...


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## .badrabbit. (Jul 8, 2008)

updates?


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (.badrabbit.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.badrabbit.* »_updates?

Not much. Just got the rear ABS sensors and will be ordering bolts for tranny swap in a week or two.


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## MKVdemon (Jul 9, 2009)

*Re: (Hello Bob)*

because it costs 37,000 euros, imagine how much that is going to be when its converted over to the weak US dollar.


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## poison (Feb 26, 2008)

quick question maloosheck, will an OEM r32 suspension bolt on to a jetta? and more importantly will it work properly?? ( weight diff etc.)


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (poison)*


_Quote, originally posted by *poison* »_quick question maloosheck, will an OEM r32 suspension bolt on to a jetta? and more importantly will it work properly?? ( weight diff etc.)

search on the forums on here. there have been more than one mk4 jetta converted with the r32 drivetrains.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (poison)*


_Quote, originally posted by *poison* »_will an OEM r32 suspension bolt on to a jetta?

not sure if you are looking for mk5 or mk4 info. and by suspension do you mean shocks/springs or subframe?


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## poison (Feb 26, 2008)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*

its mk5, i did search forums and net but didnt come out with much.


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## poison (Feb 26, 2008)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

mk5 , shocks/spring.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (poison)*


_Quote, originally posted by *poison* »_mk5 , shocks/spring. 

Same thing fittingwise. Different weight to carry, though.


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## poison (Feb 26, 2008)

*Re: (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
Same thing fittingwise. Different weight to carry, though.

i am not very experienced with suspension behavior, would the swap do more harm then good??
( makes me think its not a good idea because it hasnt been done much before, or at least i couldnt find any documentation on the subject)
thanks for ur help btw


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## poison (Feb 26, 2008)

*Re: (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
Same thing fittingwise. Different weight to carry, though.

i am not very experienced with suspension behavior, would the swap do more harm then good??
( makes me think its not a good idea because it hasnt been done much before, or at least i couldnt find any documentation on the subject)
thanks for ur help btw


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## brian1973 (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (poison)*


_Quote, originally posted by *poison* »_quick question maloosheck, will an OEM r32 suspension bolt on to a jetta? and more importantly will it work properly?? ( weight diff etc.)

no. r32 is configured similar to Audi TT but nothing like mk4 jetta/gti


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

Off topic:
Hmm Variant Golfs (Jetta SportWagen?) are made in Mexico. 
I just found a new price list of Finnish 1.6TDI 4motion - so, you have the opportunity to buy it?










_Modified by jaah at 2:28 PM 3-14-2010_


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

maloosheck
You might be interested looking into the new updated gen 2 haldex (gen 4 ?) used in the TTS, TTRS. 
Cheers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by EL_3grab at 3:51 AM 4-12-2010_


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

Hmmmm
Is that normal?
http://tos.pp.fi/images/image/...4.JPG
I just saw it...


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (jaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_Is that normal?
http://tos.pp.fi/images/image/...4.JPG

I will take a look at my shaft.


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
I will take a look at my shaft.

I also noticed that it is missing one nut!
I put new one...


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (jaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaah* »_I also noticed that it is missing one nut!
I put new one... 

I do not think you miss anything. Per ETKA there are no nuts there.


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: (maloosheck)*

But I think that there should be 3 nuts.
One is missing... for a long time because there is a rust.
http://tos.pp.fi/images/image/...2.JPG

But Im wondering about "fragmentation" of that "disc". 
It does not make a noise. Not yet...


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

Lets bump this nice project that got lost in vortex :thumbup:


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## ShadowGLI (Oct 27, 2006)

haha found it, and resubscribing :thumbup:


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## balliBTI (Sep 2, 2008)

okay since last week Ive started browsing the net for information on 4M con on MK5 GTI, and Im wondering, is it possible to swap the whole shebang from a Jetta, Passat or Golf Variant 4M to h/b GTI?

and what should I look for? engine specs and whatnot

I actually read the thread but Ive been up for like 26 hours and Im so freaking tired and I really dont want to read it again ... cause I kinda forgot everything .... nearly everything


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## opzrabbit17 (Dec 26, 2008)

Ive read most of the tread and inquired about the white Rabbit 4motion that DM Tuning did. 

In a brief nut shell, you will need the following: 

*Rear subframe from B6 Passat/R32/ mk2 TT/ Golf Varient TDI (to include diff, axles, drive shaft and wheel hubs) 
*R32 gas tank and fuel pump 
*Tranny 6speed manual tranny from B6 Passat/R32/ mk2 TT/ Golf Varient TDI ( with axels and shift linkage) 
*control module for the Haldex 
*cat-bak exhaust system will have to customized. (not sure if you have to alter the down pipe) 
*If you are putting this in a Rabbit or GTI, you will need the rear trunk floor from R35 or i think you just have delete you spare wheel well... 

I think that covers hardware.. 

My questions are: 

1. How, if possible can you connect the Haldex control module to work with the ASP. I think DM Tunning kept the ASP instead of upgrading to ESP (traction control). 

2. If you get the whole 4motion drive train connected. How will the Haldex system behave without intergrating it with the ABS, ASP and/or ESP systems?? Will sticking a Limited Slip Diff (LSD) help over come any of the above mentioned issues? 

2. I think a MK1 TT tranny would be easiest to source, but im not sure if any or all the possible transmissions for this conversion need any modifications to bolt up to a 2.5L or 2.0T 

IS ANYONE OUT THERE ATTEMPTING THIS CONVERSION???


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## opzrabbit17 (Dec 26, 2008)

bump


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

opzrabbit17 said:


> 1. How, if possible can you connect the Haldex control module to work with the ASP. I think DM Tunning kept the ASP instead of upgrading to ESP (traction control).


I doubt it is possible. It depends on the ABS control module. 4M ones are all ESP, not ASP. It would just be a waste of signals from sensors.



opzrabbit17 said:


> 2. If you get the whole 4motion drive train connected. How will the Haldex system behave without intergrating it with the ABS, ASP and/or ESP systems?? Will sticking a Limited Slip Diff (LSD) help over come any of the above mentioned issues?


It will work as additional ballast . NOT work at all. You can make a custom controller if you are into soldering.



opzrabbit17 said:


> 2. I think a MK1 TT tranny would be easiest to source, but im not sure if any or all the possible transmissions for this conversion need any modifications to bolt up to a 2.5L or 2.0T


I believe only vr6 uses different bolting pattern. 2.5 and 2.0T use the same one.



opzrabbit17 said:


> IS ANYONE OUT THERE ATTEMPTING THIS CONVERSION???


I am still doing it. We just have a beautiful baby girl - guess how much time I can spend on this project...


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## opzrabbit17 (Dec 26, 2008)

Thanks for the update.. I just puchase a wrecked R32 ... The donor R32 has all the nessesary parts except the tranny, brake & ABS parts... Im Looking forward to attempting this swap but i just bought a house, so it may be a while.. The 4M will be transplanted into my 2008 Rabbit.. Unfortunately i have to do some modification to the trunk floor to have room for the rear diff. I am going to swap in the trunk floor from the donor R32 so i can still have a spare.(donut).. LOL

1.What parts do i need to convert from ASP to ESP? My donor car did not come with any brakes or ABS...

2. You mentioned 5 wires going to the Haldex control module: power, ground, CAN-H, CAN-L and brake switch. Im not to familiar with wiring. Were exacting would i connect the CAN-H & CAN-L wires??


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

opzrabbit17 said:


> 1.What parts do i need to convert from ASP to ESP? My donor car did not come with any brakes or ABS...


ABS pump and module, 4 wheel rotation sensors and acceleration multisensor located under the passenger seat.



opzrabbit17 said:


> 2. You mentioned 5 wires going to the Haldex control module: power, ground, CAN-H, CAN-L and brake switch. Im not to familiar with wiring. Were exacting would i connect the CAN-H & CAN-L wires??


At CAN gateway under the dash. I have to double check but maybe you can also connect at CECM (way better access).


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## opzrabbit17 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.kisolutionz.com/ttforum/haldex.pdf


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## opzrabbit17 (Dec 26, 2008)

Question: according to page 29 on this link http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_333.pdf
i think we might also need a (J419) Brake Light relay and the Brake Light swith from a vehicle with ESP.... (to convert from ASR to ESP)


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## opzrabbit17 (Dec 26, 2008)

bump


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## shortwave360 (Jul 6, 2008)

Subbed. Danke!


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

I wish I had more time to finish this project. I will be ordering 80k oil + filters for my Jetta soon and I was hoping to swap the transmission at the same time. Just have to remember to order the tranny/transfer case oil too...


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## ShadowGLI (Oct 27, 2006)

I still love this thread


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## Paint_By_Numbers (Nov 7, 2008)

ShadowGLI said:


> I still love this thread


me too... I still love malooscheck... total mancrush


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

whats the status of this???

i'd be really awesome, if at the end of the swap, you posted a list, with part numbers if possible, of whats needed to do it.

Thanks.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

thygreyt said:


> whats the status of this???


There is a pile of parts taking half of my basement (I believe I have collected everything I need, except for custom exhaust) and total lack of time. Bear in mind Jetta is my DD, so it will be hard to have it off the road for several days.


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

Winter is coming.... :bs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T_e-9mirlA&feature=player_embedded


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## AMD IS THE BEST (Mar 15, 2004)

Awesome build thread! Subscribed! Very impressive work.


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## siren001 (Nov 6, 2009)

awesome was it ever finished?


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## KyleCrish (Mar 22, 2006)

any word on this?


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

KyleCrish said:


> any word on this?


Yes, I need some baby sitters to help   . But seriously, hopefully this summer this project can be finalized. I started hating all that crap in the basement .


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## KyleCrish (Mar 22, 2006)

maloosheck said:


> Yes, I need some baby sitters to help   . But seriously, hopefully this summer this project can be finalized. I started hating all that crap in the basement .


k, buy me a plane ticket to va and ill watch your kids. or ill bring my girlfriend, she can watch your kids and ill watch/help you.


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## dsm1983 (Aug 8, 2009)

and i'll watch/help the girlfriend :laugh:


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

Impressive, I hope all goes well for you in your swap this summer!


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

counting days for summer


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i truly hope this gets done..as i remember when the idea began and the parts started coming in...:beer::beer: 

miss you old friend.


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## siren001 (Nov 6, 2009)

how much it cost you so far?


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## Gazdok (Jun 5, 2011)

maloosheck said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *traderdesk* »_Just curious on how you will activate your stock ECU to think it is now running the haldex? Have you compared the code on your stock ECU to a ECU that is 4motion/haldex on? If it almost the same and only a two digit change i.e. 03 34 23 4f 23 etc and you need only one number to be switch like 0F to be substitute to 07 will your ECU accept the change? I will be very interested to see if you have done this...
> 
> 
> ECU has (to my knowledge) nothing to do with Haldex. Haldex has its own independent controller that uses signals from misc sensors over CAN-BUS. The ECU does not even have to know about the existence of Haldex. This is based on what I have read about Haldex. The reality might be of course different.


 Can you just run any Haldex module on any Haldex clutch as long as it is the same generation haldex? 

Very nice Project.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

maloosheck said:


> There is a pile of parts taking half of my basement (I believe I have collected everything I need, except for custom exhaust) and total lack of time. Bear in mind Jetta is my DD, so it will be hard to have it off the road for several days.


 If for any reason you don't do this swap I would be interested. The first 450-500WHP AWD GLI-R is something I would like to do. LMK. Bob. G


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

siren001 said:


> how much it cost you so far?


 Too much to give up now


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## Sdubs (Feb 26, 2011)

Somehow ran into this thread. Great read! What's the status on this? Would love to find out if this works. Been wanting a TDI 4-motion forever!


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## DJNastie (Mar 19, 2009)

did this work just obtained a rolled 08 r32 was going to transplant all the compenents over to my GLI, ive done measurements and everything appears to line right up. was going to transplant all the electrical compents and fueling and drivetrain components over as well.


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## sheepszies (Feb 1, 2008)

I want news on this - This thread has been officially bookmarked. I always wanted a 4mo conversion on my MK4 but wrote off the idea due to the exorbitant price. I now drive a 1.9 TDI mk5 and am seriously considering this.


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## opzrabbit17 (Dec 26, 2008)

*MKV 4motion on mkVI*

I have all the parts for a 4motion swap i had originally planned for my mkV Rabbit. I just traded it in for a 2011 Golf (dealer made me an offer i couldnt refuse)...

Will the MkV 4motion connect to MkVI. Harware i know is still the same as MKV, i was asking in refence to wiring. I think the MKVI rabbit came with ESP, so i dont have to worry about converting to ESP..


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## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

DJNastie said:


> did this work


worked on a gti I built



opzrabbit17 said:


> I have all the parts for a 4motion swap i had originally planned for my mkV Rabbit. I just traded it in for a 2011 Golf (dealer made me an offer i couldnt refuse)...
> 
> Will the MkV 4motion connect to MkVI. Harware i know is still the same as MKV, i was asking in refence to wiring. I think the MKVI rabbit came with ESP, so i dont have to worry about converting to ESP..



I think I spoke with you last year this time, at H2O on the phone. Is the asr signal in the mkv rabbit for certain different than the esp? anyway, i'll be at h2o again this year if you wanna check out the gti


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## opzrabbit17 (Dec 26, 2008)

akauf said:


> worked on a gti I built
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We did. I didnt make to H2O this year. Do you still have that tranny? I have to prioritize my projects. 1) 4 motion MKVI Golf 2) '67 camaro LS3 conversion 4) BMW 318ti M3 swap 4) house renovations... Choices...

Im hoping to have all the 4motion parts laid out before halloween. Im only missing the transmission.


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## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

opzrabbit17 said:


> We did. I didnt make to H2O this year. Do you still have that tranny? I have to prioritize my projects. 1) 4 motion MKVI Golf 2) '67 camaro LS3 conversion 4) BMW 318ti M3 swap 4) house renovations... Choices...
> 
> Im hoping to have all the 4motion parts laid out before halloween. Im only missing the transmission.


sure do!


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## FluxedSpec-V (Aug 22, 2011)

Sub!!

Bump for Fellow Virginian, if you need help I'll try to cruse up north


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

Ok, my wife just told me she might be out of country for a week and a half around Thanksgiving, so that means I can take Jetta off the road. Which would be perfect for the swap. I will order all the missing fluids and rear sub-frame bolts over the weekend to be fully prepared.

I need two custom things done in that week after Thanksgiving:
1. Shaft support
2. Exhaust

Now, question for fellow NoVa dubbers:
1. Anybody knows of a good fabrication place around Sterling, VA?
2. Anybody has a trailer I could use to take the car there?


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## Some_Day (Jul 19, 2011)

Bump! Can't wait to see it finished :thumbup:


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## KyleCrish (Mar 22, 2006)

youre the man maloosheck, cant wait to see this done!!!

even my gf was amazed when i was showing her all the things youve done to the jetta


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

Just ordered all (hopefully) missing pieces of the puzzle: rear suspension bolts, fluids, some hardware for brakes and tank... Some time this week I need to check what I have for tranny swap.


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## AsymmetricalDichotomy (Aug 13, 2010)

Drool. I can't wait and can only imagine how you must feel. :beer:


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## excursion (Nov 25, 2006)

Do you need any parts to finish? My project just finished and I have most of an MY2009 R32

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260909169492&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT


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## mtbr244 (Oct 27, 2006)

*I'm watching this again.*

I have an r32 that will be converted to tdi power.


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## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

I talked to Peloquin, it looks like the diffs themselves are the same, so I'm thinking that grabbing the front haldex from a TT with a few extra pieces should be enough to convert the car over.


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## Eletrik (Mar 9, 2011)

mtbr244 said:


> I have an r32 that will be converted to tdi power.


Same here. I have some feelers out for a totaled TDI to swap with my existing 3.2L and tranny. Ideally, I would do a near even swap. TDI's are being tuned to produce some decent HP and awesome torque these days. My R should still be a pretty solid performer except with almost twice the MPG after the swap. Plus I can run it on veggie oil. Anyone with info an a wrecked TDI drop me a line.

Here is my build so far:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5230330-2004-Tornado-Red-R32-in-Vt-build-and-mod-journal


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## bassmanjosh (Nov 6, 2004)

update? you always attempt the best stuff! so glad u have a mkv


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

I need the PN for the proper brake line... The one I ordered before xmas is wrong.


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## Varsity (Jan 15, 2012)

Hi to all,

New to the Forum but have been watching this thread for some while now.

We recently built a Jetta R, taking a 2007 Jetta 2.0TFSI and putting a hot R engine in, completed its running 343 proven on the dyno. See video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaSnmsaaTrk

The car is running TTRS front brakes with PFB discs and pads, KW V3 suspension, H&R front and rear roll bars, full decat Miltek 3" exhaust (turbo back), APR intake, MRC HP fuel pump, RS Fabrications fully bolted to welded base plates cage, MK 6 steering wheel, Passat LED touch screen NAV and US spec rear boot lid.

After being fed up of having little or no grip in the weather we are having I have decided to start the Synchro mission.

So, with the information here, the rear end of an S3, plenty of ETKA and Dealership help, we think this can be done.

Will also keep you informed and pictures.

Cheers


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## mYGeL (Oct 23, 2010)

Hello 

Also doing this conversion on my Seat leon Cupra  
Same Chassie as Golf GTI And S3 Engine from the beggining. 
Now fully built engine and about to be AWD. 

Build Thread. 
www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=283972&page=20


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## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

Great thread, would love to try and tackle this in my 10' A3 Tdi.


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

*4*motion
http://tos.pp.fi/images/image/golf/4motion/DSC_0348i.jpg


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## mYGeL (Oct 23, 2010)

well i forgott to update and conversion was ready for 4 weeks ago.. 

got some snow yesterday and wanted to test little.. but taking it little easy as the car is painted a week ago and also rims newly powdercoated.. 

but heres a video 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkOcP314huk


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## jaah (Dec 29, 2006)

^well done :beer:


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## danielstdi (Apr 17, 2010)

Really wanting to try this on my 2010 Jetta TDI. Did you finish the conversion?


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## RedWabbitVR (Mar 1, 2006)

why isn't this done yet.... I want to see the outcome. don't tease me, I'll drive down there and do it myself if I have to.


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## RedWabbitVR (Mar 1, 2006)

akauf said:


> Is done, been done for almost two years.
> 
> Installing a hep manifold, fpv, and building a new exhaust atm.
> 
> Trying to hit 500 awhp on pump gas with the standard 3076r


 are you the OP?? if not then I wasn't talking to you. :screwy: 

he's been researching/gathering parts for a few years I just want to know the outcome not whether it can be done or not. it's obvious it can be.


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## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

RedWabbitVR said:


> are you the OP?? if not then I wasn't talking to you. :screwy:
> 
> he's been researching/gathering parts for a few years I just want to know the outcome not whether it can be done or not. it's obvious it can be.


 hahaha, got two threads mixed up. 

It is obvious it can be done, I did it to a gti.


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

RedWabbitVR said:


> why isn't this done yet.... I want to see the outcome. don't tease me, I'll drive down there and do it myself if I have to.


 The only reason it is not done yet is my '06 Jetta is my DD and I cannot take it off the road for more than weekend. But I got the '85 Jetta TD recently that will be used as my spare DD and as soon as I fix few urgent issues in it, the 4Motion swap has to be completed.


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## Freestyle72 (May 3, 2008)

So just to confirm the chassis will accept the rear subframe bolt on?


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## RedWabbitVR (Mar 1, 2006)

Freestyle72 said:


> So just to confirm the chassis will accept the rear subframe bolt on?


 Did you even read this thread? Or how about just a couple posts up?


Sent from under my car.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Maloshak, just to let you know:

As of today, 4 successful 4wd have been built on the mkv platform, on the 2.5l engine.
1 by unitronic and 3 were done with united motorsports. If you have any questions, contact them.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## atrociousa3 (Aug 6, 2007)

any updates? need to convert a3 to s3


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## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

atrociousa3 said:


> any updates? need to convert a3 to s3


Lol... :sly:


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## atrociousa3 (Aug 6, 2007)

i get that look from everybody. i have a 2.0t 6speed and would really like to have it be awd. dont care for dsg. will an mkiv r32 trans bolt up to a bpy engine?


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## jakjak9210 (Apr 2, 2011)

atrociousa3 said:


> i get that look from everybody. i have a 2.0t 6speed and would really like to have it be awd. dont care for dsg. will an mkiv r32 trans bolt up to a bpy engine?


I'd way prefer to have an awd 2.0t a3, if its doable I'd be interested for sure! I love this engine but with fwd it just spins all it's power away. eace:


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## mYGeL (Oct 23, 2010)

if you check in my thread on Seatcupra.net
You can se exactly what is needed and also posted the Wiring for Haldex and fuellevelsender  

i have a seat leon but it is based on the golf so same work and wiring


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## atrociousa3 (Aug 6, 2007)

jakjak9210 said:


> I'd way prefer to have an awd 2.0t a3, if its doable I'd be interested for sure! I love this engine but with fwd it just spins all it's power away. eace:


yeah the whole just buy one with quattro doesnt work for me cuz i want manual and 2.0t. come next year im gonna try to start buying the parts. i can get the rear stuff easily im just still trying to see if i should go with a tt 225 trans or import an s3 trans from europe.


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## kyle_h (Aug 1, 2010)

Thread Resurrection I guess!

I just spent the last hour reading this thread and I must say I am very interested in the final result, any updates?


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

I have recently bought the Tiguan propshaft center bearing support. I will try to see if it will fit in next time the car is jacked. If I could use it, the only thing to fabricate would be exhaust...


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## Takuhari (Jul 10, 2008)

I've been tracking this thread since I bought my brand new 2008 golf 5cyl. 
Now I have had my 2010 TDi for 4 years now and I want to do this mod. 
It's got 80k now so it is about time to void my warranty. lol 

I noticed that my 6sp manual has screw holes for the transfercase (or whatever it is called). 
I wonder if there were a little modding, can we use the origional tranny without replacing it? 

Also Getting my car shipped to korea... so I have no limit on what modds I can do. lol 
NO HOLDS BAR! 

Just don't think I can bring it back to the states... especially since CA requires clean diesels. lol 
Oh well, it is a 1way ticket for this car. I will get rid of it before I come back. 

Maybe I will get the new VW truck here and try to take it back to the states if the states never sells them. 

ANYWHOS... I WANNA DO THIS MOD!!! 

W have 4motion golfs 6s and 7s but no stickshifts in this country. 
not sure of the golf 5s 

Wonder if I can find a wrecked one... 
Wondering if the parts for the golf5 and 6 are simular. 

Any info? 

(If it has already been covered, please refer me to the post page and number)


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## Takuhari (Jul 10, 2008)

Oh... and BTW.... 

UPDATED PHOTOS!!!! I wanna see what you have done! 
Did you figure out the gastank and the spare tire container? 

korea doesnt use a sparetire... too dangerous. the insurance company justs tows your car to a shop. 

So I guess I can crop mine. 
cheap to do so over here i guess...


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## BMKruse (Mar 13, 2012)

Great resource


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## remux (Dec 9, 2013)

anyone have found a way to recode the haldex and abs module in manual transmission mode ... 

im almost done with my awd swap in my mk6 gti everything is working out , but all the parts i used come from a audi a3 same years as my gti , the haldex are coded for a dsg transmission , the abs module was for 2wd so i used the a3 one but its also coded for a dsg transmission ... i contacted ross tech and they dont want to help me with this ... anyone have found how to do it ??


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## liteoff (Mar 4, 2007)

remux said:


> anyone have found a way to recode the haldex and abs module in manual transmission mode ...
> 
> im almost done with my awd swap in my mk6 gti everything is working out , but all the parts i used come from a audi a3 same years as my gti , the haldex are coded for a dsg transmission , the abs module was for 2wd so i used the a3 one but its also coded for a dsg transmission ... i contacted ross tech and they dont want to help me with this ... anyone have found how to do it ??


Did you end up cutting out your rear floor pan for your mk6 gti?


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## abuthemagician (Sep 25, 2002)

Amazing project


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## 2doorV6 (Jan 29, 2003)

*interesting project*

cool project i will keep watch on this


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## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

Been lightly researching this topic lately. Skimmed the first few pages on here. Anyone up to date on this topic that can give me a quick run through? Is it as easy as it appears to be at first glance? Rough end cost of conversion? I've got a 5 speed manual, want to convert to 6 speed AWD.


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## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

OK so I'm all caught up on this whole thing. The only thing I think I may have missed is what tranny Is being used? Will a 6 speed manual work? And if it works for your TDI it should work the same for my 2.5 correct?


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## wvwzzz1kz7 (Dec 30, 2012)

Hi!

You should check if there is a 6 gear AWD gearbox that fits on the 2,5 engine. The AWD gearbox is also connected to the engine with a bracket where the right drive shaft is connected to the gearbox. See the black bracket on the picture below:

There are many brackets for different engines available, it has to be checked if on the 2,5 you have the mounting holes and if one of the existing brackets fits. Without this bracket you might have issues later.

I am doing a Jetta AWD conversion right now in Germany, you can take a look here:
http://www.team-dezent.at/9869-jetta-1k-tdi-in-nordseegrün-metallic/thread17.html

It is in german, but the pictures help a lot.

Regards,
Ed


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## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

You thread does help even though it's in german. At least I can go through the pics and get an idea of where to look for possible issues. I do have one question. I believe in this thread it was said that the shallower spare tire area of the jetta is what is needed, not the deeper spare tire of the golf. In your pictures it looks like the deeper one is what is needed. Any clarification on this?


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## wvwzzz1kz7 (Dec 30, 2012)

There is no shallow and deep version for the Jetta. As the Jetta has the same floor pan as the Golf Variant (I Think is called Jetta Sportwagon in the US), I have compared the trunk floor between Jetta and Sportwagon FWD and the partnumber was the same. Than I purchased the trunk floor pan from the Sportwagon 4Motion, and found that only a small portion is different there. You can see in my pictures, my finger showes that region on the new trunk floor pan. This difference is only due to the exhaust pipe. The rear axle with Haldex fits without changing anything on the Jetta floor pan.
Regards, Ed


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## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

OK good that's what I thought. As far as electronics go, is there anything that has to be changed with the electronics I have already or is the 4motion pretty much it's own stand alone system? I have ESP on my vehicle. I'm not sure if that runs through my ECU at all. Would the 4motion hook up to that without issues?


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## wvwzzz1kz7 (Dec 30, 2012)

With a 2008 version you might be lucky with the ESP; in my case (2007) I needed a new one. Check if you have an ESP MK60 as I had or MK60 EC1.

New parts:
- replaced ESP unit (complete unit)
- replaced acceleration sensor unit for the ESP
- replaced the rear axle sensor for the Xenon (only with Xenon)
- new second fuel level sensor
- replaced 2x rear wheel speed sensors

Wiring:
- changed ESP wiring (same connector but different pin assignment + 1 new pin)
- new wiring for second fuel sensor
- new wiring for Haldex

Coding:
- chenged the engine
- set up the AWD in the gateway
- changed headlight aim control (only with Xenon)

Regards, Ed


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## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

Where would I be able to find what ESP I have?


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## wvwzzz1kz7 (Dec 30, 2012)

You can do a scan with VCDS, under 03 / Component you will find the type of the ESP.
Regards, Ed


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## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

Ah I see. Awesome thanks for the info! I'm in the beginning stages of this whole thing and because of money it's gonna be a few years till its completed, but right now what I really need is knowledge and information.


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## wvwzzz1kz7 (Dec 30, 2012)

This is how it should be :thumbup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1ZoqlG1nM0&feature=youtu.be


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## Waffle (Mar 5, 2008)

wvwzzz1kz7 said:


> This is how it should be :thumbup:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1ZoqlG1nM0&feature=youtu.be


Good job!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

Nice! Do you have pics of the underbody? What tranny and engine did you use?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## wvwzzz1kz7 (Dec 30, 2012)

Hi!

Engine: BMM
Gearbox: JLR
And here is the underbody:


But I think you were asking for this:







See also here:
http://www.team-dezent.at/9869-jetta-1k-tdi-in-nordseegrün-metallic/thread22.html

Regards,
Ed


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## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

Wow that's awesome. Did you have to cut anything? It's all pretty much bolt on isn't it? Did you use a stand alone setup for the haldex system or how does that all work?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## wvwzzz1kz7 (Dec 30, 2012)

We had to cut for two things:

1. opening for the second fuel tank gauge - here is the sheet metal under the rear seat already formed as it is used also for the Golf 5 Variant 4Motion (Jetta Sportwagon), just has to be cut out:



2. spare wheel mold due to exhaust: here we used a Golf 5 Variant 4Motion part



This step you need only for TDI if you use the OEM exhaust. If you fabricate your own exhaust, this is not needed.

For bolting on, you just need
- for fuel tank: a new weld nut and a new welded bracket, see marked in red in the second picture in this post
- for prop shaft: two welded brackets:


No big deal if done properly.

I do not understand what you mean with stand alone, the Haldex is completely integrated in the electronics of the car.

Regards, Ed


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## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

How do you integrate it though? If the car doesn't come stock with AWD how is the old system going to recognize the Haldex?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

wvwzzz1kz7 said:


> I do not understand what you mean with stand alone, the Haldex is completely integrated in the electronics of the car.


I have a question regard this: Can you run Haldex without error codes and CEL if ECU is coded to 6-speed manual FWD transmission? You have BMM engine, it has coding for both FWD & AWD, but here in the US we have BRM engine and it only has coding for FWD (manual/DSG).


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## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

There ya go that's what I was trying to ask! I'm still kinda learning some of this stuff.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## wvwzzz1kz7 (Dec 30, 2012)

Manual 6 Speed gearbox is no issue. I will try to get the BMM engine coded back to FWD and post a scan.
But just a question, was there any Audi A3 TDI Quattro or VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI 4Motion sold on the US market?
Regards, Ed


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

wvwzzz1kz7 said:


> Manual 6 Speed gearbox is no issue. I will try to get the BMM engine coded back to FWD and post a scan.
> But just a question, was there any Audi A3 TDI Quattro or VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI 4Motion sold on the US market?
> Regards, Ed


I am not aware of any TDI 4Motion on the US market other than Touareg, but I did not pay much attention to Audi. If there is any, it will be newer Common Rail TDI engine rather than old good (not) PD...


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## wvwzzz1kz7 (Dec 30, 2012)

Guys, it seams that you will be lucky. I changed the engine coding from 172 (4Motion) to 072 (FWD), and no fault codes, it works:

Donnerstag,08,Mai,2014,18:43:53:19761
VCDS -- Windows-basierter VAG/VAS-Emulator
VCDS Version: PCI 12.12.2.0
Datenstand: 20140225


Fahrzeug-Ident.-Nr.: WVWZZZ1KZ7Mxxxxxxx KFZ-Kennzeichen: simply different
Kilometerstand: 197290km Reparaturauftrag: 2014-05-08_001



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Fahrzeugtyp: 1K (1K0)
Scan: 01 03 08 09 10 15 16 17 18 19 22 25 37 42 44 46 52 55 56 62
69 6C 72 77

Fahrzeug-Ident.-Nr.: WVWZZZ1KZ7Mxxxxxxx Kilometerstand: 197290km

01-Motorelektronik -- Status: i.O. 0000
03-Bremsenelektronik -- Status: i.O. 0000
04-Lenkwinkelsensor -- Status: i.O. 0000
08-Klima-/Heizungsel. -- Status: i.O. 0000
09-Zentralelektrik -- Status: i.O. 0000
10-Einparkhilfe 2 -- Status: i.O. 0000
15-Airbag -- Status: i.O. 0000
16-Lenkradelektronik -- Status: i.O. 0000
17-Schalttafeleinsatz -- Status: i.O. 0000
18-Standheizung -- Status: Fehler 0010
19-Diagnoseinterface -- Status: i.O. 0000
22-Allrad -- Status: i.O. 0000
25-Wegfahrsperre -- Status: i.O. 0000
37-Navigation -- Status: i.O. 0000
42-Türelektr. Fahrer -- Status: i.O. 0000
44-Lenkhilfe -- Status: i.O. 0000
46-Komfortsystem -- Status: i.O. 0000
52-Türelektr. Beifahr. -- Status: i.O. 0000
55-Leuchtweitenreg. -- Status: i.O. 0000
56-Radio -- Status: i.O. 0000
62-Türelektr. hi. li. -- Status: i.O. 0000
69-Anhänger -- Status: i.O. 0000
6C-Rückfahrkamera -- Status: i.O. 0000
72-Türelektr. hi. re. -- Status: i.O. 0000
77-Telefon -- Status: i.O. 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 01: Motorelektronik Labeldatei: PCI\03G-906-021-BMM.clb
Teilenummer SW: 03G 906 021 JG HW: 03G 906 021 AB
Bauteil: R4 2,0L EDC G000SG 9392 
Revision: --H02--- Seriennummer: VWZ7Z0F4484725
Codierung: 0000072
Betriebsnr.: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 6DD4411E74DCCF76401-8038

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 03: Bremsenelektronik Labeldatei: 1K0-614-517-MK60-A.lbl
Teilenummer SW: 1K0 614 517 AD HW: 1K0 614 517 AD
Bauteil: ESP 4MOTION MK60-AT 0102 
Revision: 00H14001 
Codierung: 0006786
Betriebsnr.: WSC 70327 141 99291
VCID: 69DC350E4034D3562C9-803C

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 08: Klima-/Heizungsel. (J255) Labeldatei: PCI\5K0-907-044.clb
Teilenummer SW: 5K0 907 044 AM HW: 5K0 907 044 AM
Bauteil: Climatronic 130 0303 
Revision: 00002001 
Codierung: 0000000000
Betriebsnr.: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Datensatz: EV_Climatronic A01001
ROD: EV_ClimaAutoBasis_SE36.rod
VCID: 76E66E72C98A0CAEB1B-8023

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 09: Zentralelektrik Labeldatei: PCI\3C0-937-049-30-H.lbl
Teilenummer SW: 3C0 937 049 AJ HW: 3C0 937 049 AJ
Bauteil: Bordnetz-SG H54 2202 
Revision: 00H54000 Seriennummer: 00000006457571
Codierung: E7038E2701041500470000000F000000000954005C00000C000000000000
Betriebsnr.: WSC 01357 011 00200
VCID: 71EC5D6E68E42B96649-8024

Subsystem 1 - Teilenummer: 1K1 955 119 E Labeldatei: PCI\1KX-955-119.CLB
Bauteil: Wischer 260806 020 0501 
Codierung: 00040853
Betriebsnr.: WSC 01357 

Subsystem 2 - Teilenummer: 1K0 955 559 AE Labeldatei: PCI\1K0-955-559-AF.CLB
Bauteil: RLS 130606 014 1201 
Codierung: 00471077
Betriebsnr.: WSC 01357 

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 10: Einparkhilfe 2 (J446) Labeldatei: PCI\3C8-919-475.clb
Teilenummer SW: 1K5 919 475 HW: 1K5 919 475 
Bauteil: PARKHILFE 8K H07 0002 
Revision: -------- Seriennummer: --------------
Codierung: 310001
Betriebsnr.: WSC 01357 011 00200
VCID: F4E2D47A57F69EBE0FF-80A1

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 15: Airbag Labeldatei: PCI\1K0-909-605.lbl
Teilenummer SW: 1K0 909 605 T HW: 1K0 909 605 T
Bauteil: 2J AIRBAG VW8 020 2300 
Revision: 05020000 Seriennummer: 0038PD0M4HNT 
Codierung: 0012874
Betriebsnr.: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 3D74B15E643C9FF6B01-8068

Subsystem 1 - Seriennummer: 6332MSME0F0C6E4DZ

Subsystem 2 - Seriennummer: 6342MSME11224D498

Subsystem 3 - Seriennummer: 6351HSME0A3C143DD

Subsystem 4 - Seriennummer: 6361HSME0A3B12252

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 16: Lenkradelektronik Labeldatei: PCI\1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
Teilenummer SW: 1K0 953 549 AQ HW: 1K0 953 549 AQ
Bauteil: J0527 636 0070 
Codierung: 0002021
Betriebsnr.: WSC 01357 011 00200
VCID: 810C8DAED844BB16149-80D4

Subsystem 1 - Teilenummer: XXXXXXXXXXX 
Bauteil: E0221 002 0010

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 17: Schalttafeleinsatz Labeldatei: PCI\1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Teilenummer SW: 1K0 920 873 B HW: 1K0 920 873 B
Bauteil: KOMBIINSTRUMENT 3HL 1610 
Revision: V0003000 Seriennummer: VWZ7Z0F4484725
Codierung: 0021103
Betriebsnr.: WSC 70327 141 194866
VCID: 2B508F068A4801461E5-807E

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 18: Standheizung Labeldatei: PCI\1K0-815-007.clb
Teilenummer: 1K0 815 007 AP
Bauteil: Standheizer 020 3602 
Revision: 00020000 Seriennummer: 09011559000000
Codierung: 0001012
Betriebsnr.: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 72EE52626DE2108E9D3-8027

1 Fehler gefunden:
01415 - Umwälzpumpe (V55) 
010 - Unterbrechung/Kurzschluss nach Plus
Freeze Frame:
Fehlerstatus: 01101010
Fehlerpriorität: 0
Fehlerhäufigkeit: 1
Verlernzähler: 110
Kilometerstand: 197095 km
Zeitangabe: 0
Datum: 2000.00.00
Zeit: 00:56:51

Freeze Frame:
aus
Temperatur: 22.0°C
Temperatur: 87.0°C


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 19: Diagnoseinterface Labeldatei: PCI\1K0-907-530-V4.clb
Teilenummer SW: 1K0 907 530 AD HW: 1K0 907 951 
Bauteil: J533 Gateway H07 0110 
Revision: H07 01 Seriennummer: 230309F1000758
Codierung: E9A37F46404E02006002
Betriebsnr.: WSC 01357 011 00200
VCID: 69DC350E4034D3562C9-803C

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 22: Allrad Labeldatei: PCI\1K0-907-554.lbl
Teilenummer: 1K0 907 554 L
Bauteil: Haldex 4Motion 0116 
Codierung: 0000001
Betriebsnr.: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 3666AE72410A4CAE71B-8063

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 25: Wegfahrsperre Labeldatei: PCI\1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
Teilenummer SW: 1K0 920 873 B HW: 1K0 920 873 B
Bauteil: IMMO 3HL 1610 
Revision: V0003000 Seriennummer: VWZ7Z0F4484725
Betriebsnr.: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2B508F068A4801461E5-807E

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 37: Navigation (J0506) Labeldatei: PCI\1T0-035-680.clb
Teilenummer SW: 1T0 035 680 C HW: 1T0 035 680 C
Bauteil: RNS-MID H41 2720 
Revision: AB001001 Seriennummer: VWZ6Z7Kxxxxxxx
Codierung: 0A0104020400002000
Betriebsnr.: WSC 00121 219 44717
VCID: 2E568612795A746E39B-807B

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 42: Türelektr. Fahrer Labeldatei: PCI\1K0-959-701-MAX3.lbl
Teilenummer SW: 1K0 959 701 Q HW: 1K0 959 793 M
Bauteil: J386 TUER-SG FT 1133 
Revision: 31008001 Seriennummer: 00000520869213
Codierung: 0000247
Betriebsnr.: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 3C72BC5A7F2696FE87F-8069

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 44: Lenkhilfe Labeldatei: PCI\1Kx-909-14x-44.clb
Teilenummer: 1K1 909 144 L
Bauteil: EPS_ZFLS Kl.070 H07 1806 
Betriebsnr.: WSC 02069 000 90108
VCID: 3462947A57765EBE4FF-8061

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 46: Komfortsystem Labeldatei: PCI\1K0-959-433-MAX.clb
Teilenummer SW: 1K0 959 433 BT HW: 1K0 959 433 BT
Bauteil: KSG PQ35 G2 020 0202 
Revision: 00020000 Seriennummer: 00000000000000
Codierung: 40900A000106087F2D0284057008CFC6F0FC00
Betriebsnr.: WSC 00066 123 12345
VCID: 830087A6C258A906065-80D6

Subsystem 1 - Teilenummer: 1K0 951 605 C
Bauteil: LIN BACKUP HORN H03 1301

Subsystem 2 - Teilenummer: 1K0 951 178 
Bauteil: Neigungssensor 001 0101

Subsystem 3 - Teilenummer: 1K0 951 178 
Bauteil: Innenraumueberw.001 0101

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 52: Türelektr. Beifahr. Labeldatei: PCI\1K0-959-702-MAX3.lbl
Teilenummer SW: 1K0 959 702 Q HW: 1K0 959 792 M
Bauteil: J387 TUER-SG BT 1131 
Revision: 31008001 Seriennummer: 00000526188209
Codierung: 0000502
Betriebsnr.: WSC 05311 000 00000
VCID: 3D74B15E643C9FF6B01-8068

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 55: Leuchtweitenreg. Labeldatei: PCI\1T0-907-357.lbl
Teilenummer: 1T0 907 357 
Bauteil: Dynamische LWR 0003 
Codierung: 0000004
Betriebsnr.: WSC 01392 785 00200
VCID: F4E2D47A97F69EBE0FF-80A1

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 56: Radio (J0506) Labeldatei: PCI\1T0-035-680.clb
Teilenummer SW: 1T0 035 680 C HW: 1T0 035 680 C
Bauteil: RNS-MID H41 2720 
Revision: AB001001 Seriennummer: VWZ6Z7Kxxxxxxx
Codierung: 0A0104020400002000
Betriebsnr.: WSC 00121 219 44717
VCID: 2E568612795A746E39B-807B

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 62: Türelektr. hi. li. Labeldatei: PCI\1K0-959-703-GEN3.lbl
Teilenummer SW: 1K0 959 703 Q HW: 1K0 959 795 J
Bauteil: J388 TUER-SG HL 1120 
Revision: 12006001 Seriennummer: 00000003171891
Codierung: 0000208
Betriebsnr.: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 3E76B652693A84EEA9B-806B

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 69: Anhänger (J345) Labeldatei: PCI\1K0-907-383-MY8.lbl
Teilenummer SW: 1K0 907 383 E HW: 1K0 907 383 E
Bauteil: Anhaenger H07 0050 
Revision: 3A002002 Seriennummer: 00000116550873
Codierung: 0100000100000000
Betriebsnr.: WSC 01357 011 00200
VCID: 2F689B167E507D6632D-807A

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 6C: Rückfahrkamera Labeldatei: PCI\5N0-907-441.clb
Teilenummer SW: 5N0 907 441 HW: 5N0 907 441 
Bauteil: J772__Rearview 0021 
Revision: 00H05000 Seriennummer: PA8 J830925
Codierung: 0030010
Betriebsnr.: WSC 01324 785 00200
VCID: ECD2CC1ACFC6467ED7F-80B9

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 72: Türelektr. hi. re. Labeldatei: PCI\1K0-959-704-GEN3.lbl
Teilenummer SW: 1K0 959 704 Q HW: 1K0 959 794 J
Bauteil: J389 TUER-SG HR 1120 
Revision: 12006001 Seriennummer: 00000003102399
Codierung: 0000208
Betriebsnr.: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 3F88CB566E308DE6A2D-806A

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 77: Telefon Labeldatei: PCI\3C0-035-730.lbl
Teilenummer SW: 5N0 035 730 C HW: 5N0 035 730 C
Bauteil: J412 8506 
Revision: 00019000 Seriennummer: 0000330612042
Codierung: 0000141
Betriebsnr.: WSC 05314 000 00000
VCID: 285A700A9BBE2A5EF37-807D

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

Ende --------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards, Ed


----------



## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

Thanks! This was the last info I have been waiting for to start the project.


----------



## youngblood7868 (Nov 12, 2012)

Hpa has standalone haldex controllers.I know a guy with a mk4 gti converted to awd and he's using a toggle switch lol.Is haldex is either on or off.

Sent from my SCH-R970X using Tapatalk


----------



## ShadowGLI (Oct 27, 2006)

I'm so excited this is starting back up


----------



## kyle_h (Aug 1, 2010)

Would 2010 Jetta setup be the same? It uses MK6 electronics


----------



## kyle_h (Aug 1, 2010)

There's a guy on golfmk5.com with username 20GLI08 who has a 2008 GLI with a 4motion swap in it... he may be of some help...


----------



## youngblood7868 (Nov 12, 2012)

Can't find him


----------



## kyle_h (Aug 1, 2010)

he doesn't have a build thread or anything, I saw him mention it in a post on another 4motion thread, and I've messaged him a few times about it.


----------



## kyle_h (Aug 1, 2010)

Another question... What's the gear ratio difference between say a tt or r32 diff ad transfer case compared to a diesel euro one? Is it 1:1? I was just trying to figure a few things out. Also would the fuel tank and pumps gti a gasser work in a diesel?


Sent from my iPhone using the Tapatalk app, so that explains the typos...


----------



## wvwzzz1kz7 (Dec 30, 2012)

kyle_h said:


> Would 2010 Jetta setup be the same? It uses MK6 electronics


There are some differences on the 2010 Jetta, it has allready the EC1 ESP unit, and the Haldex Gen 4 instead of 2 should be used.




kyle_h said:


> Another question... What's the gear ratio difference between say a tt or r32 diff ad transfer case compared to a diesel euro one? Is it 1:1? I was just trying to figure a few things out. Also would the fuel tank and pumps gti a gasser work in a diesel?


All Golf 5 and 6 based 4Motion models have ratio of 1,6 on the prop shaft in order to reduce the size of it. As a Gen 4 Haldex should be used, you can use any transfer case that was used on a VW with Gen 4 Haldex.
Tank and pumps: do not mix gas and diesel components. It fits, but will not work without failures.

LG, Ed


----------



## kyle_h (Aug 1, 2010)

I'm considering this in the future, but it's a big investment 

So sounds like I'm equipped for a simple swap...

02Q manual, the case is the same for FWD and AWD, so theoretically I just need a 4motion diff, like an LSD, swap that in with some seals, and tranny is good for 4motion?

ABS is good to go I guess? I have 1K0-907-379-AS ABS unit.

I've checked out some Euro stuff and found the part numbers for the diesel 4motion fuel tank and both sending units.

The rest should be a swap regardless of gas/diesel (suspension, brakes, subframe, driveshaft, angle drive, differential/haldex) 

I may start accumulating parts, my Jetta should have clearance for everything, with the exception of slight exhaust issues with spare tire area.


----------



## wvwzzz1kz7 (Dec 30, 2012)

It was snowing yesterday, so I could play around for the first time with the 4motion after the conversion 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hkOI8a_CRu0

Happy Holidays,
Ed


----------



## Waffle (Mar 5, 2008)

wvwzzz1kz7 said:


> It was snowing yesterday, so I could play around for the first time with the 4motion after the conversion
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hkOI8a_CRu0
> 
> ...


Looks like fun! How's the car doing?


----------



## wvwzzz1kz7 (Dec 30, 2012)

@ Waffle: the car is doing well, thx. I got used to the 4Motion on dry roads, and now I accumulate some experience on slippery roads. On dry roads I could feel the difference in two situations:
1. accelerating out of a curve: the FWD transmission was at its limits very early, the traction control lamp gone on a lot, and with that either the wheel spin was stoped by ESP control or the engine power was cut. With 4Motion I have not seen this issue in 21.000 km
2. playing around in curves: with FWD the front was pushed to the outside, now the rear axle is comming. Is pretty neutral, but still new sensation.
On snow the rear axle is comming a lot, also with ESP you have to take care if you are fulling around. But, accelerating on snow is nice, the traction control lamp goes on only if all 4 wheels are spinning for a fraction of a second. It works fine, it feels like a complete different car due to the changed dynamics.

Regards,
Ed


----------



## Waffle (Mar 5, 2008)

Has anyone bolted a transfer case onto a FWD transmission successfully?

I want to do this with my DSG transmission. It would be nice if I could use my stock transmission and swap the differential to an AWD version.


----------



## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

Waffle said:


> Has anyone bolted a transfer case onto a FWD transmission successfully?
> 
> I want to do this with my DSG transmission. It would be nice if I could use my stock transmission and swap the differential to an AWD version.


I have some ideas that I will know the answer to in a couple weeks as I do my swap but it def isnt just bolt on as the bellhousing has a protruding flange for the cv flange seal on that side. Also as you said you would need the awd diff.


----------



## Waffle (Mar 5, 2008)

jettaglx91 said:


> I have some ideas that I will know the answer to in a couple weeks as I do my swap but it def isnt just bolt on as the bellhousing has a protruding flange for the cv flange seal on that side. Also as you said you would need the awd diff.


Great, let me know what you find, it would be great if I could use my stock dsg.


----------



## 87vr6 (Jan 17, 2002)

wvwzzz1kz7 said:


> I do not understand what you mean with stand alone, the Haldex is completely integrated in the electronics of the car.
> 
> Regards, Ed


What wires go where? I know on the MK4 platform, adding (the wiring) haldex is easy enough, just two or three wires into the ABS unit...


----------



## wvwzzz1kz7 (Dec 30, 2012)

The wiring is not the issue, that is simple and is already described in this thread. The integration is done over the system arhitecture, the communication with the engine, ESP and other controllers runs over CAN. The Haldex is deeply integrated into the vehicle electronics.


----------



## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

wvwzzz1kz7 said:


> The wiring is not the issue, that is simple and is already described in this thread. The integration is done over the system arhitecture, the communication with the engine, ESP and other controllers runs over CAN. The Haldex is deeply integrated into the vehicle electronics.


I personally haven't done it yet but I believe the haldex part is easy on the mk5/6 but on the mk6 I think you need a certain abs module and gotta run wires to the cluster for fuel gauge stuff


----------



## 87vr6 (Jan 17, 2002)

wvwzzz1kz7 said:


> The wiring is not the issue, that is simple and is already described in this thread. The integration is done over the system arhitecture, the communication with the engine, ESP and other controllers runs over CAN. The Haldex is deeply integrated into the vehicle electronics.


I must have missed that part. I'll review it later


----------



## euro-sudaka (Aug 22, 2006)

sooo... will the r32 transfer case bolt into the 02q gti 6 sp manual trans ??


----------



## euro-sudaka (Aug 22, 2006)

euro-sudaka said:


> sooo... will the r32 transfer case bolt into the 02q gti 6 sp manual trans ??


i read on someones thread that changing the fwd differential to an AWD peloquin will allow me to bolt the r32 transfer case to the stock GTI 02q ?? which peloquin diff though?? part number ?? 

thanks


----------



## Waffle (Mar 5, 2008)

euro-sudaka said:


> i read on someones thread that changing the fwd differential to an AWD peloquin will allow me to bolt the r32 transfer case to the stock GTI 02q ?? which peloquin diff though?? part number ??
> 
> thanks


I don't know if this has ever been confirmed.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

euro-sudaka said:


> i read on someones thread that changing the fwd differential to an AWD peloquin will allow me to bolt the r32 transfer case to the stock GTI 02q ?? which peloquin diff though?? part number ??
> 
> thanks


Yes, this is possible. I will be doing this as soon as my Golf R clutch housing case comes in. 
The 02Q transmissions are all the same on the other side (gear ratios are slightly different on some models) of the clutch housing including the case.
I'm using this Peloquins 4motion/Quattro diff to do the conversion. 
I have a transfer case off of an 2012 Audi TT Quattro, but as far as I've researched, the transfer cases are largely the same between most of the Gen 4 Haldex transmissions.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Yes, this is possible. I will be doing this as soon as my Golf R clutch housing case comes in.
> The 02Q transmissions are all the same on the other side (gear ratios are slightly different on some models) of the clutch housing including the case.
> I'm using this Peloquins 4motion/Quattro diff to do the conversion.
> I have a transfer case off of an 2012 Audi TT Quattro, but as far as I've researched, the transfer cases are largely the same between most of the Gen 4 Haldex transmissions.


So after spending some time with another 02Q transmission we had at the shop, it appears you do not need the AWD case to install the transfer case.
You'll still need an AWD differential and the mounting bracket but not much else.



















If you're interested in seeing more 4motion conversion stuff, feel free to check out my build thread.
I'll be posting up more pics of the transmission when we start that part of the build.


----------



## Waffle (Mar 5, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> So after spending some time with another 02Q transmission we had at the shop, it appears you do not need the AWD case to install the transfer case.
> You'll still need an AWD differential and the mounting bracket but not much else.
> 
> 
> ...


This is great information! Thanks.


----------



## KyleCrish (Mar 22, 2006)

Thanks for keeping us updated! its cool that we are still finding out new stuff about this platform :beer::beer:


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

Waffle said:


> This is great information! Thanks.





KyleCrish said:


> Thanks for keeping us updated! its cool that we are still finding out new stuff about this platform :beer::beer:


Not a problem, more than happy help you guys modify your VWs/Audis any way I can! :beer:


----------



## euro-sudaka (Aug 22, 2006)

Good stuff.... It might be a lot cheaper than I thought it would be ... Which mounting bracket are you using.. Any pics of that ? 

Me too I would like to swap this soon 












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

euro-sudaka said:


> Good stuff.... It might be a lot cheaper than I thought it would be ... Which mounting bracket are you using.. Any pics of that ?
> 
> Me too I would like to swap this soon
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The mounting bracket in question is 02M409905AH.

Here's the illustration of it in ETKA. It's part #1


----------



## wvwzzz1kz7 (Dec 30, 2012)

All this was already discussed in this thread. Malo has bolted the AWD differential on a FWD gearbox a long time ago. What is not mentioned here is, that VW has changed the ratio for almost all gears in the 4Motion gearboxes, so what you are building with bolting the AWD differential on a FWD tranny is not OEM. But it works.
The bracket what you are mentioning was also discussed, I presented it myself some time ago when I made the conversion. There it has to be checked if the engine has the mounting holes for it. Engines that VW has not used in 4Motion models might not have it.
Regards, Ed


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

wvwzzz1kz7 said:


> All this was already discussed in this thread. Malo has bolted the AWD differential on a FWD gearbox a long time ago. What is not mentioned here is, that VW has changed the ratio for almost all gears in the 4Motion gearboxes, so what you are building with bolting the AWD differential on a FWD tranny is not OEM. But it works.
> The bracket what you are mentioning was also discussed, I presented it myself some time ago when I made the conversion. There it has to be checked if the engine has the mounting holes for it. Engines that VW has not used in 4Motion models might not have it.
> Regards, Ed


I don't mean to be rude, but I looked back through the thread again, and the transmission that he shows is a 4motion transmission.
He even says it in his post on page 2:


maloosheck said:


> Well, it's time to move from theory to practice. I was in Europe in May and I found few parts from mk5 Golf 1.9 TDI 4Motion. After 3 months I have finally picked them up today. Here we go:
> 1. 6-speed MT for TDI 4Motion (FWZ) - it might require some changes to the gear ratio in the future, but at this point the most important was it should bolt in to my engine without any problems.


Once again, not trying to be rude, I've just never found any posts confirming that the FWD transmission will work with the transfer case and figured others would like to know this wonderful information.


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## euro-sudaka (Aug 22, 2006)

yeah Charles I read the thread as well and it was never confirmed... that's why I asked the question again... so thank you again for taking the time to see if it would work..

anyways..

have you done the convertion yet ?? opcorn:


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

One thing I am sure about is transfer case has 2 input shafts: inner for right front axle and outer for rear differential. So the real question is if FWD tranny differential has this pre-diff outer output shaft for rear diff. I did not have time to research this.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

maloosheck said:


> One thing I am sure about is transfer case has 2 input shafts: inner for right front axle and outer for rear differential. So the real question is if FWD tranny differential has this pre-diff outer output shaft for rear diff. I did not have time to research this.


No


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## vw4life4886 (Oct 22, 2013)

*Halidex + rear diff*

I am having bearing issues in my 09 cc vr6 halidex unit. I have been told that there is no repair for those. If you know of anything that could help that would be appreciated. With that said where did you find yours and how much did you pay?


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## rmv076 (May 13, 2015)

*Reviving thread*

Recently bought mk5 R32, and immediately wanted to convert the car to stick.. I have the 6 speed manual trans that i sourced from UK.. Just got all of the linkage, hydraulic lines, pedals, etc that is needed to do the swap.. the only thing i need to know now is how do i use the VagCom to tune the ECU to think it is manual.. Ive been through the whole post and read that there were no codes when changing the engine coding to 072 from 172.. I just need to know what the dsg code is and what the 6MT code is and once i know that the swap will be done.. I already have all the parts needed, just need to know what and how to change.
Thanks,
Ron


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## DuBnurD (Oct 22, 2014)

rmv076 said:


> Recently bought mk5 R32, and immediately wanted to convert the car to stick.. I have the 6 speed manual trans that i sourced from UK.. Just got all of the linkage, hydraulic lines, pedals, etc that is needed to do the swap.. the only thing i need to know now is how do i use the VagCom to tune the ECU to think it is manual.. Ive been through the whole post and read that there were no codes when changing the engine coding to 072 from 172.. I just need to know what the dsg code is and what the 6MT code is and once i know that the swap will be done.. I already have all the parts needed, just need to know what and how to change.
> Thanks,
> Ron


The R32 ECU don't accept manual coding changes (not that I have found so far anyway). I have a Euro 2006 MK5 R32 ECU here now, to go into my R32 Touran conversion, and changing to the codong for manual transmission results in an out of range error.

There are some wiring loom changes you'll have to make anyway, so you may as well do them, and then see what happens with your ECU coding. You can change the gateway coding so it doesn't see an autobox, and see if it works. you *may* need toe ABS module from a manual trans R32 as well.


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## BrewCitysJaack (Dec 2, 2013)

Has anyone on here tried to swap a mk5 gti to R32 drivetrain? That's a goal of mine but I'm sure it's more than I'm capable of seeing as I have very little experience. I believe a 2008 TT drivetrain would work and those come with a manual gearbox. Any insight is highly appreciated. 
Thanks guys! Awesome thread. 

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## freeze plug (Oct 26, 2006)

i have a 2009 Jetta sportwagen TDI 6 speed manual and am considering pursuing the 4motion swap. What year range of 4mo Tiguans would I be looking for that would have the compatible rear subframe, diff, and other bolt-ons?

Additionally, is there a difference between gas and diesel haldex units? I assume they're all the same ratio regardless, depending on the generation of haldex. Is a DSG angle drive the same as one from a manual, or how about tiguan auto?


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

freeze plug said:


> i have a 2009 Jetta sportwagen TDI 6 speed manual and am considering pursuing the 4motion swap. What year range of 4mo Tiguans would I be looking for that would have the compatible rear subframe, diff, and other bolt-ons?
> 
> Additionally, is there a difference between gas and diesel haldex units? I assume they're all the same ratio regardless, depending on the generation of haldex. Is a DSG angle drive the same as one from a manual, or how about tiguan auto?


I havent personally checked out tiguan parts but I think ideally you want mk5/6 R/R32 or A3. I think there are some differences on the tiguan stuff but could be wrong. Also Im pretty sure the tiguan angle drive would most likely be completely different as they are a regular automatic.


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## freeze plug (Oct 26, 2006)

I thought so too, about the tiguan angle drive. So the general consensus is that a DSG angle drive will bolt up to a 6 speed manual, if the mounting holes are there? So I should be good if I get one from an mk5/6 R32, Golf R, TT, A3 etc? how about mk7? I just want to confirm the years of Gen 4 Haldex, but that may only apply to the rear diff and haldex unit (as long as ratios did not change between generations). If anyone could confirm this, that would be great. I'd like to make a one stop shop and take everything from the same car if possible


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## Mkv_kyle (Oct 3, 2015)

Malo I'm attempting to do this swap myself and was wondering which parts you for sure had to get over seas. A lot of the info I'm finding seems to be left unanswered and I was wondering if I could get an update of what you had the worked, and what was still needing figured out. I'd love to help figure this one out because it's a pretty common dream for is mkv guys but I don't think anyone has achieved victory. This is a new account so I couldn't message you directly


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

Mkv_kyle said:


> Malo I'm attempting to do this swap myself and was wondering which parts you for sure had to get over seas. A lot of the info I'm finding seems to be left unanswered and I was wondering if I could get an update of what you had the worked, and what was still needing figured out. I'd love to help figure this one out because it's a pretty common dream for is mkv guys but I don't think anyone has achieved victory. This is a new account so I couldn't message you directly


I dont think anything needs sourced from overseas anymore unless you are looking for specific gear ratios or something like that.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

freeze plug said:


> I thought so too, about the tiguan angle drive. So the general consensus is that a DSG angle drive will bolt up to a 6 speed manual, if the mounting holes are there? So I should be good if I get one from an mk5/6 R32, Golf R, TT, A3 etc? how about mk7? I just want to confirm the years of Gen 4 Haldex, but that may only apply to the rear diff and haldex unit (as long as ratios did not change between generations). If anyone could confirm this, that would be great. I'd like to make a one stop shop and take everything from the same car if possible


The picture that I posted above is of an Audi TT 2.0T TSI DSG transfer case (or angle drive, whichever you prefer). So yes, you can use the DSG unit just fine. 
The only other component you need to interface the two parts is the differential. You will need an AWD differential to mate up to the transfer case properly.

As for the transmissions that have the mounting holes, I've been taking a look at all of the Mk5, Mk6, B6, Audi A3 and Mk2 TT vehicles that have come through the shop as work is done on them. 
From what I can tell, FSI/TSI Mk5s and 2006-2009 Passats and CCs all have the mounting holes for the transfer case. 

Your question earlier about the Tiguan compatibility, the rear subframe on that car and the differential will not work. 
I have had the fortune (misfortune?) of trying out the different rear subframes, rear differential assemblies and prop shafts on my CC.
The rear subframe and differential assembly from a A3/S3/Golf R are all the same dimensional-wise. However, the Tiguan, Passat and CC rear subframes and differentials are different from them.
Think of it this way, all the smaller chassis vehicles use the same parts and all of the larger chassis vehicles have the same parts.


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## freeze plug (Oct 26, 2006)

great, thanks for the info!


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

freeze plug said:


> great, thanks for the info!


No problem! We actually just finished putting my transmission back together and everything functions as though it was an AWD transmission from the get-go. 
Now to just wire everything up and figure out any ECU issues that arise.


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## euro-sudaka (Aug 22, 2006)

Good stuff charles!! 
Now what gas tanks options do we have? Only A3 and r32? 


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

euro-sudaka said:


> Good stuff charles!!
> Now what gas tanks options do we have? Only A3 and r32?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I believe that your only options are going to be those and the Golf R. However, I haven't really researched the specifics on that part of the swap for an "A" chassis car.
Most of my research has been into the B6 chassis, but there is a lot of overlap obviously. From what little I have researched on it, you will need to modify the body in order to complete the swap on a FWD Mk5/6 vehicle though.
The B6 chassis is a bit easier since everything bolts right up from a 3.6 4motion vehicle.

For those looking for more information on the transmission side of the swap, please feel free to check out my build thread. I've recently updated it with some more information and pics about that part of the swap.


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## kyle_h (Aug 1, 2010)

It saddens me to see this thread die 


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

It did not die. A friend of mine took all the parts and installed 4Motion in his Jetta TDI Cup Edition. Plus tons of other stuff:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206850133595160&set=o.159340420856565&type=3&theater


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## kyle_h (Aug 1, 2010)

maloosheck said:


> It did not die. A friend of mine took all the parts and installed 4Motion in his Jetta TDI Cup Edition. Plus tons of other stuff:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206850133595160&set=o.159340420856565&type=3&theater


Damn. I can’t refuse the offer I’m getting for buyback on my cup edition! I was originally going stage 3 4motion. But I have no rust warranty and car is rusting to **** up here in Canada. Saddens me. Next idea: mk6 tdi 4motion wagon


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## MK5_YEGDUB (Jul 25, 2017)

Why can i not see any of these photos, when you see the third party hosting image and you got to photobucket/p500 it wants you to pay to see the images.. and i wanna know all i can about the awd swap as i might take it on


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## drakore (Apr 5, 2015)

Going to try and resurrect this thread.

So I have a MK6 DSG GTI and I'm looking at doing the AWD swap (I'll stick with DSG).

Can the Tiguan AWD transmission be used? I only ask because it's cheaper for me to get one vs getting a A3 quattro.

Does the transmission code matter? or will any one do?

What are the pain points for the wiring and coding? Does anyone have any good links explaining what needs to be done on that front? I've heard it shouldn't be too bad since i'm sticking with DSG.

Thanks!


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## MkV_Racer (Sep 13, 2004)

dusting off the thread...

Any word on what folks did for evap? R32 lines and such are different. Wish I could dump it but don't want a constant check engine light.


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## Charles Devine (Aug 22, 2007)

wvwzzz1kz7 said:


> We had to cut for two things:


Might be a stretch here, when you opened the hole for cross over pump, did you use the same cover as you did for the fuel pump itself?

-Charles


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