# 6 Speed Automatic Transmission Concerns (V8 Phaetons)



## martingie (Jan 11, 2005)

*Transmission noise 8cylinder*

Hi, I just brought my Phaeton in,because under hard acceleration mostly between 3+4 or 5+6 for a short moment a howling noise with vibration into gearselector appears. I was able to demontrated it to the Technician, but he said there is not much to do because no Fault code will show up and if he ask VW they will say he needs a reference vehicle to replicate it. There is no other Phaeton in Honolulu, they all left to mainland. My question is did enybody else had something like it ?,or heard about it. Thanks for response


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission noise 8cylinder (martingie)*

Hi there:
Nice to hear from you again. Can you tell me what speed the noise occurs at, and if the noise seems to be speed related in any way?
Michael


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## martingie (Jan 11, 2005)

Hi, thanks. Yes I can but it is not speed related, those it does't show up under full acceleration from start. It happens mostly when I , for passing or making a traffic light , fully push down the pedal and than before downshifting it happens. More so when it is on an uphill part. I live in the montains above Pearl Harbor, and there I can provoke it every time. Like I said the car has to roll, or at least be in the 3 gear, from than on at any speed before the car has to downshift. I think it is more torque related.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (martingie)*

I think the best course of action you could take would be to call the staff at the Phaeton Customer Care Center - this is exactly the type of thing that they are really good at helping out with. The phone number is +1 (877) 742 3866.
Michael


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## AtlasD3Miami (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Funny question, but does it sound similar to a seal bark?


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## martingie (Jan 11, 2005)

Not as funny as it sounds. Yes, I guess you can say said . Did you ever hear that in your Audi? After all it is the same trans.


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## AtlasD3Miami (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (martingie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *martingie* »_Not as funny as it sounds. Yes, I guess you can say said . Did you ever hear that in your Audi? After all it is the same trans.

Yes on my previous 2004...ZF finally answered back after a month and stated the factory fluid fill was incorrect. The transmission fluid does not have the correct lubricating properties and was causing the clutch pack friction disks to bind under full torque load. Tranny needs to be flushed twice and refilled (which is difficult in temperate climates). Hopefully this will help.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

Mine makes a chirping sound on hard upshifts - has done it since I bought it with 11k miles on it.


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## martingie (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: (Paldi)*

Sonds like the same problem with another noise. Hard upshifts is what triggers mine too. So what did you do with it


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (AtlasD3Miami)*

Hi Atlas:
Great to hear from you, thanks a lot for helping out on this question.
Michael


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## martingie (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: (AtlasD3Miami)*

Thanks from me too. I will print that out and show my Dealer. It would be great if it is only that.


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## AtlasD3Miami (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (martingie)*

My pleasure...The problem (if this is it) seems to be a little more wide spread than first indicated and effects several versions of the ZF 6HP26 transmissions (including our BMW 760Li).


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (AtlasD3Miami)*

ZF's Head Office is only about a 40 minute drive away from my office in Zürich - they are just on the other side of Lake Constance, in Friedrichshafen. I talked to some folks there a few months ago, and they didn't indicate that the 6HP series needed any special attention. I have to go back to Friedrichshafen in the spring, I'll drop by and see if they have any further information. They don't actually make this transmission in Friedrichshafen, but most of their engineers are there.
*ZF 6HP Series Transmission*


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## martingie (Jan 11, 2005)

Hi, short notice what happend so far. I spoke with Carry from Customer Care yesterday. She did call the dealer and try to assist the technician. Got a call from the dealer today that they ordert at advice from VW new transmission fluid and filter, it will take about 5 days. They said I could drive the car in the meantime but I declined.I don't think it is good for the transmission. So I am driving a Nissan Maxima from Enterprise (VW is paying) Dealer has no Loaner Fleet. I'll keep you post it


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (martingie)*

Great to hear that PCC is helping you out with this and things are moving along quickly. One of the real strengths of the PCC team is that they keep records of all the unusual inquiries (like this one) that arise, which means that if your technician in HI is scratching his head over something he has not seen before, PCC can put him in touch with someone elsewhere in the country who has already encountered the same issue - and resolved it.
Let us know how it all turns out.
Michael


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## martingie (Jan 11, 2005)

Hi, I got her back today after transmission flush and filter change. What a difference, I did not know how much I was used to rough shifting. The car is very smooth now, even ideling is much better. I think that rough ideling when gear is engaged, like in front of a red light, the car was shaking, it could have come also from the trans. like slipping than,runing against the break and slipp and again. I don't know if this makes sense, but it is gone know . I try to provoke it 3 times on a steep incline with full throttle ( it even hurt me doing it) but no more noise and soft shifting. I am happy.---- Besides, the Nissan (a tin can light car) gave me 17.4 miles in town, my Phaeton 16.8,and I almost destroyed the car when I closed the trunk with Phaeton used effort. I think you can cough on the lit and it will close.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (martingie)*

Martin, thanks ever so much for reporting back to all of us about this - now we can add your experience to our collective list of useful information.
The quantity of fluid in the automatic transmission is checked every 20,000 miles at the 20K, 40K, 60K and so on scheduled service intervals. It is quite a complex procedure to check the fluid level. I watched the techs at my VW dealer do this check last Friday when my car was in for the 32,000 km (20,000 mile) check. I will make a post illustrating how the checking is done.
In the meantime - it's great to hear that you found such a simple fix for the problem.
Michael


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## martingie (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Sorry Michael, but it was not low on fluid , it was the wrong fluid, like Atlas said. ZF the maker of the Trans. filled the wrong one in I guess. ZF explained to Atlas that his had the wrong lubrication properties and made the clutch pack bind. My Tech even said the new fluid even smeled different.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (martingie)*

Whoops....














...sorry about that, and thank you for pointing out my error. I didn't read the whole post carefully enough. I think it's time for me to go to bed now, rather than staying up and trying to work on Hawaii time and Europe time at the same time.
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*The seal is barking!*

My 6-speed is starting to make the noise again on downshifts, a bark or horn blow sound that lasts a second almost two. I think I'll ask PCC for advice on it now. I've also noticed a slipping sensation on the 1 - 2 shift happening off and on depending on throttle application. At medium acceleration from a stop there can be a brief rise in rpm between shifts that is annoying.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: The seal is barking! (Paldi)*

*Archival Note:* related post - Transmission noise on down-shift?


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Transmission Needs Replacement*

Over the weekend, my car behaved abnormaly when shifting gears, and twice went into emergency mode. I already had an appointment with the dealer, but it was fine when I drove it in this morning. It was very "clunky" and I thought the transmission was behaving as if it was about to die. The service guy acted as if this was common, at least for a dealer that sold 10. Any thoughts?


_Modified by dzier at 10:11 AM 10-31-2006_


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission (dzier)*

Mine went "PRNDS" once just after the first night here below freezing. I had taken a 40 mile trip, parked and came out 3 hours later. I noticed the warning about 5 miles after I began my return trip. I pulled over, shut it down and restarted. It cleared itself and has been OK since. I got a "Gas Cap Open" warning the next morning even though I hadn't gassed up in a couple of days.
The transmission has been giving me a rough or delayed 1-2 shift for a month or two. It seems that it disengages first gear and them over-revs before engaging second. All other shifts are normal. Seems it learned a bad habit?


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission (dzier)*

This clunck is between ALL gears, not just 1-2. I know what you are talking about and have been through the 1-2 clunk thing.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission (dzier)*

How did they fix the 1-2 clunk?
The "all-clunk" sounds like something similar - a software issue or a fluid problem. Notice any leaks?


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission (Paldi)*

I need a new transmission. Coolant leaked in the transmission fluid and recirculated. I am not the first with this problem, but for the low volume of this car in the US, many transmissions have had to be replaced. This is frustrating!


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Who's had transmission replaced?*

My transmission is being replaced - coolant leaked into transmission fluid and circulated. How long should this take?


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## UntouchableGTI (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: Who's had transmission replaced? (dzier)*

u doin it or a shop? a shop should be able to get it in and out in a day, and its should take like 5 hrs on the ground the first time if u do it yourself and have never done it b4


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission (dzier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_Coolant leaked in the transmission fluid and recirculated.

I wonder how the coolant got in there? There is a transmission fluid cooler at the front of the car, however, I thought it used outside air flowing over it to cool the transmission fluid. 
Could there be some kind of 'transmission fluid to engine coolant' heat exchanger somewhere? I belive that the W12 Phaeton has such a device (see this post: W12 (only!) Underbody Cover Attachment Modification), but I didn't think that the V8, which uses a different transmission, had the same device.
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission (PanEuropean)*

Right side behind the fog lamp is a water to trans fluid cooler box on the V8s.
I noticed at 36k miles my radiator expansion tank shows coolant at the "min" mark when the engine is warm. Maybe I have a slight leak?


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Who's had transmission replaced? (UntouchableGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UntouchableGTI* »_u doin it or a shop? a shop should be able to get it in and out in a day, and its should take like 5 hrs on the ground the first time if u do it yourself and have never done it b4

They have to take the engine out, so of course I'm not doing it.


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission (Paldi)*

The service advisor is not very good, so I probably need to talk to the technician. I have no idea how this could have occurred.


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission (dzier)*

Now they tell me they are not certain that is the issue. VW is sending them equipment to analyze the fluid to see if the coolant is the issue. It may not be. The transmission is slipping, and they are saying they may need to replace more than the transmission. It is vague.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission (dzier)*

Here's a drawing of the fluid cooler.








And a photo of an ATF cooler damaged by hitting a curb or other road hazzard. (not mine)
This cooler came of a Phaeton that hit a center island or curb hard. The body shop threw the item out and I grabbed it along with a front fender, a radiator housing, lower front spoiler and a foglight - my garage is filling up with discarded Phaeton and DeLorean parts - and tires.








I'm wondering if there might be an internal problem with this cool can? Perhaps a bad weld or corrosion or some other latent manufacturing defect? If so, one would not see external damage at all.




























_Modified by Paldi at 3:36 PM 11-21-2006_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission (Paldi)*

Most interesting, Fred, thanks for posting that photo.
Michael


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission (Paldi)*

I have not hit anything, so mine should not be damaged. I think that is why they are not certain what is causing the transmission to fail as of yet. When I hear something, I will keep you posted.
David


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission (Paldi)*

Paldi,
The 1-2 clunk was never fixed. You might want to get it checked out further. Look what happened with mine. There have been many people on here complaining about the 1-2 clunk, and I wonder if it is a sign of things to come. The issue with my car is NOT the fluid, or anything leaking into it. They told me they may not know anything as to why it failed unless they dismantle my transmission back in Germany. 
I know others have had transmissions replaced, so i wonder how the cars have performed after replacement. This is really making me think I held on to this car too long. 


_Modified by dzier at 7:37 PM 11-1-2006_


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission (dzier)*

We need to change the topic title, as it is not correct. There is no fluid problem.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission (dzier)*

I changed it.


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

Transmission was received Thursday, as there were several already in the country. What have others experienced when having transmission replaced? Any issues I need to be aware of?


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_Transmission was received Thursday, as there were several already in the country. What have others experienced when having transmission replaced? Any issues I need to be aware of?

I believe my transmission had been replaced sometime prior to my purchasing my '04 V8 with about 16K miles about 19 months ago. I've put an additional 21K miles on the car and have had absolutely no problems with the transmission.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (car_guy)*

Another forum member had a transmission on a V8 replaced about 18 months ago - reported no problems as a result of it.
Michael


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

I have been told that my car should be ready by the end of the week, for pickup on Saturday or Monday. I have not received much communication, even from Phaeton Customer Service, so I am not sure if I should feel god or not about what is going on.


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## Highline (Mar 13, 2003)

1. Filling the exact quantity of ATF as per car's spec (I know is obvious but some time is neglected)
2. Checking the ATF after a while for any residue or loss in qty (leak) due to the assembling job of the new transmition.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_I have been told that my car should be ready by the end of the week, for pickup on Saturday or Monday. I have not received much communication, even from Phaeton Customer Service, so I am not sure if I should feel god or not about what is going on.

David, mine is in now... PCC knows it's in too. "John" same fellow talking with you... ?



_Modified by Paldi at 10:51 PM 11-17-2006_


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

I got word today that it is in fact the engine coolant was in the transmission fluid. They do not know why though, as there apears to be no outward damage, which is why they had reversed the finding early on. Someone from VOA is in Indianapolis now managing the issues with my car. Evidently, they got a kit to measure the fluid yesterday and they ran another test which found the fluid. Right now, they are assessing what needs to be replaced beyond the transmission, and they are not yet certain. It has now been in 2 weeks.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

One place where coolent and transmission fluid come *close* to each other is in the little radiator I posted a photo of up the page in an earlier post. Maybe a defect with that part? I noticed my coolent expansion tank was reading at the MIN mark when I took my car in. Had your coolent been low?


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

Update on mine... Not good news. Might need a new transmission too.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

Oh no... what is going on with these transmissions? Up to this point they have been really reliable, and I have not heard of any problems with them, other than a very insignificant problem that causes a caution light to come on even though the transmission is healthy.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: The seal is barking! (PanEuropean)*

*Archival Note:* two additional transmission-related discussions - 
Shuttering in drive line
V8 Transmission Problem (was: Engine Coolant in Transmission Fluid)


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (PanEuropean)*

Many people have been complaining about the "jerking" or "clunking" between 1st and 2nd gear. Mine was doing that for months, but told nothing was wrong. The weekend it clunked on all gears and went into emergency mode several times, I took it in on Monday.
I was not aware my coolant level was low, and it was not mentioned.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_Many people have been complaining about the "jerking" or "clunking" between 1st and 2nd gear. 


David, My new tranny is due to arrive at the dealership on Friday. They haven't said what's wrong with it, just that it was approved for replacement by VoA. If it's engine coolent getting into the transmission, they better find out where it's coming from or we'll need another one before long.

_Modified by Paldi at 4:42 PM 11-14-2006_


_Modified by Paldi at 5:56 PM 11-14-2006_


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

VoA has been parked here for my car. I think they are trying to solve the probelm so it does not happen again. The problem? I don't think they really know yet. That makes me worried. This is the THIRD week for my car. No one is telling me it will even be ready this week at all. The parts have been there for the tranny for more than 2 weeks. It is fixing the issue that caused the problem that seems to be the hold up.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

If they are still claiming trans fluid contamination with antifreeze, how many points of potential fouling can there be?
Link to an earlier thread on the subject...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2841889


_Modified by Paldi at 9:59 PM 11-15-2006_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_I think they are trying to solve the problem so it does not happen again...

I am sure they are working on that - probably 24 hours a day. A transmission is a hugely expensive part, not to mention the thousands of dollars of labour involved in removing and replacing it, and the inconvenience to the car owner.
I don't know much about this whole transmission issue - mechanical bits are not my strong point - however, I have scoured the German language Phaeton forum, and can't see any references to transmission problems there. So, maybe it might be some unforeseen thing that relates to North American operating conditions. A similar type of 'one region problem' came up a few years ago with an adhesive used on the Golf.
I'm pretty confident that once the VW engineers figure out what (if anything) is behind this, they will let us know. Two or three transmissions does not make an epidemic, but still, it is an item of great interest.
Michael


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
What's the url for the German Phaeton forum? I can read German reasonably well, so it might be interesting.
Many thanks
Stefano


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Motorista)*

I think this link will work.
http://www.motor-talk.de/f224/s/


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

They tell me my car will be ready Monday Nov 20.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

David, that's really great news. 
My new transmission arrived today. PCC says it will be finished the day before Thanksgiving.
One thing that concerns me is that the VW tech is not going to test the fluid in mine, despite the fact that my engine coolent is below the "MIN" mark and there are no signs of an external coolant leak. Given that yours tested positive for coolant contamination, I hope whatever is leaking coolant is inside the transmission or will be replaced along with it - like the cooler. Do you know?



_Modified by Paldi at 2:51 PM 11-21-2006_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

Fred:
Why not just ask your VW tech to save you a small sample of the fluid, and then post the sample to VW in Auburn Hills?
You could probably get a suitable sterile glass bottle at a pharmacy... that's what we use for aircraft oil samples.
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (PanEuropean)*

Good idea. Some is bound to leak out during the swap so no extra work involved.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

I am certain that your tech will not re-use the fluid that is in the existing transmission - in other words, I sure hope not. I'm not sure if you implied that or not.
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (PanEuropean)*

No I didn't mean to. I mean that they will have to unfasten the ATF lines to the radiator so the system will be open at that point and it will be easy to get a sample.


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

My concern is that they do not know why the fluid was contaminated. Just because they replced the transmission does not mean it won't happen again.
I am not sure why they won't test your fluid. They delayed replacing mine for 10 days until they got the kit to do the test.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

I was told by PaulW- guru of Audi A8 land - that a similar problem afflicted some A8s. Even though ATF is pumped at a higher pressure than water coolant, when the hot motor is turned off, ATF pressure drops but the pressure buildup in the hot radiator pushed water coolant from the defective ATF coolers and contaminated the transmissions. Interesting, but who knows if it applies the Phaeton?


_Modified by Paldi at 9:53 AM 11-18-2006_


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (PanEuropean)*

Regarding the Battery Controller, PCC says they are going to load new software into it rather than replace it with a "C" version. Does that sound right?


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

If this may have been something the A8 experienced, what was/is the fix? I am not certian they have done anything beyond testing the fluid and replacing the transmission. VOA had a representative here for a while and I have not heard anything about preventing the issue in the future.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Regarding the Battery Controller, PCC says they are going to load new software into it rather than replace it with a "C" version. Does that sound right?

Doesn't sound right unless VW has recently come up with a way of flashing the software in the battery controller, and I have not heard of it (this is very possible...) The last time I got into a deep discussion of battery controllers with VW engineering staff - about a year ago - I was told that there were hardware differences between A and B, and also B and C - hence the controller could not be updated with a software flash. But, it is entirely possible that even though hardware differences exist, VW has found a way to solve the recharge allocation problem that some B version controllers have via a software flash only. If so, this is good news for VW, because a software flash will be a lot less expensive than physically removing and replacing a $300 controller.
You might want to ask your VW dealer if there has been an update to technical bulletin 27-06-02 (Campaign OH). The last time I checked, this TB called for physical replacement of the battery controller. But, hey, if there is a way to get version 2700, 2800 or higher software into a B version controller, and that solves the recharge allocation problem, then great, that will do the job.
TB 27-06-02 (Campaign OH) can be found at this post: Electrical Problems - Includes TB 27-06-02, RVU (Campaign OH).
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (PanEuropean)*

Thanks Michael. PCC was taking the word of the Service Manager. Maybe they have figured out the proper approach by now. They are said to be pushing to get the car done by Wednesday. I told them not to rush it. I can happily drive the loaner for two more days. That would be much better than having a problem develop on or shortly after delivery which would spoil Thanksgiving.


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

I got my car back... and I must say that as far as I can tell, my dealer did a great, careful job (after our terrible history!).
The new transmission shifts as smooth as silk. Not even a remote hint of any kind of shock! (Like the Nissan Maxima commercial for the CVT trans). I think it is smoother than when it was new... it is imperceptable!! 
They fixed the noise in my steering column YET AGAIN! Even that is the best it has ever been.
They replaced the cooler as well as the transmission. (PARTS ONLY - $7500) I still am not sure if this really fixes the problem, and they could not guarantee it would not happen again. (Michael...do you know???)
My batteries were replaced (they were low and were receiving faults), so that was not expected, they fixed/replaced trim work that was lose on the driver side doors. 
The keyless start and entry still work. I have not tried the other keys, but they said they should work. I had to reprogram to my main Key, but I get a little key with a circle around it in the display (no battery with key fob?) but it works fine and battery is fine, so confusing. (It was doing that before.)
I am so glad to have it back!!!


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

I'm glad you are back on the road!










_Modified by Paldi at 2:49 PM 11-21-2006_


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

My engine and transmission are out and on the ground. The operation will carry through to early next week and will apparently include a new transmission cooler. 
The reason for the leak remains unclear but fingers point to the ATF cooler. Apparently this only fails on one direction - coolant gets into the ATF but ATF doesn't get into the coolant.


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

It sounds to me that the problem twith the trans could occur again. I will call Phaeton Customer Care today and ask them to follow up on that. I am not getting any good information from the dealer.
The steering wheel noise fix lasted one day. It is back to the "grind". This has been supposedly fixed so many times on my car, even the motor was replaced earlier....
SO, far, the transmission is flawless and I think better then when new. I have only driven 25 miles, so I will take it for a long drive today.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

Dave, that's great! Mine is scheduled for completion tomorrow or Thursday including a new battery controller. That part is on order. PCC has been great staying in touch. 
Apparently I don't get a new battery. Is that a warranty item or a wear item?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

Hi Fred:
You probably don't need a new battery. Once the new controller starts supplying additional recharge current to the existing battery, everything will work just great.
When the battery controller was replaced in my car, the tech checked the battery with the Midtronics tester beforehand, and the result was a message that said the battery was as sick as a dog. We both doubted this, so we recharged the battery, put the new controller in, and then tested the same battery three weeks later. The battery passed the test with flying colours.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_I get a little key with a circle around it in the display (no battery with key fob?) but it works fine and battery is fine, so confusing. (It was doing that before.)

Hi David:
There should be a text message accompanying the 'key with circle' message that you see in the display. It is possible to program the instrument cluster to display pictograms only (meaning, no language selected), but that is a very uncommon configuration. Perhaps ask the tech at your dealership to check adaptation channel 4 of controller 17, and make sure the value for that channel is set to 2 (English) and not to 7 (without text, pictograms only).
Michael


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (PanEuropean)*

The text indicates "battery not in key" (text is there when I start car. The cirlce with the key remains present all the time. The key fob works fine, so not sure why I get the message.


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

It may be the key battery is nearing the end of its life. I had similar messages, with both my keys. I asked for replacements (and they charged me). Problem went away.


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

Just to confirm, you were also getting the message that the battery was missing? (I am not getting a message that the battery is low.)


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

Sorry but I don't remember the specific wording. It may have said Low key battery or Empty key battery. Since batteries were replaced all is well. 
So, David, it's been a pleasure sharing a thread and a PCC representative with you! Here's to us both having 100,000 trouble-free miles going forward, at least.










_Modified by Paldi at 8:31 PM 11-29-2006_


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Fred:
Why not just ask your VW tech to save you a small sample of the fluid, and then post the sample to VW in Auburn Hills?
Michael

Michael,
They discovered my Phaeton transmission fluid was brown and smelled burned. It's possible there's coolant contamination too, but they don't think so. I'm a careful and slow suburban driver mixed with stretches of turnpike cruising. I can't figure out what could have gone wrong to burn clutches.


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

I spoke to my PCC person again today. It seems as if they are not sure what causes the problem, and the replacement was just the same parts replacement. I asked him to find out if there has been any upgrade or redesign to any Orings or Valves, or will this issue just keep occurring over time.
Michael, do you have any insights?


----------



## pretendcto (Nov 23, 2005)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_... I can't figure out what could have gone wrong to burn clutches. ...

I'd bet that your transmission was one of the few with the incorrect fluid from the factory. I'm still not convinced (by a long shot) of the 'lifetime' fluid' claim.








Transmission noise (caused by low ATF fluid) 
Shuttering in drive line


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (pretendcto)*

I hope you are right. It's been noisy since day one of my ownership. I remember writing a post about how my car "moaned" and made other whirring sounds in addition to the infamous barking seal noise. If that's it, then I don't anticipate a repeat in 35,000 miles. The trans cooler coolant leak problem David seemed to have had is a worry though. I think VW will be looking carefully inside both of these two transmissions.


----------



## pretendcto (Nov 23, 2005)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

I think the odds of a repeat failure are very, very slim. The ZF transmission seems to be a very carefully engineered unit and it's probably been through more durability testing than we can imagine. I hope you are back on the road soon ... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## maz60 (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

Hi Fred,
I have not posted in a long time but this is sounding all too familiar.
Before I leased my Phaeton, I had a 2001 Audi A8. I loved the car and thought about buying it at the end of the lease. I decided not to buy it because of the transmission problems with the A8. While I never had such a problem, they were well documented in the AudiWorld forum and Paul W has quite a bit of info on the ZF transmission in Audipages. 
See http://www.audipages.com/Tech_....html
This nonsense about lifetime fluid makes me think that the VW, Audi folks still have not figured out the need for transmission service. I fear the same problems may develop in the Phaeton. I know the V8 has a six speed transmission but the W12 has a five speed which I suspect may be the same or similar to the previous generation Audi A8.
Good luck with yours.
Mike


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (maz60)*

Ironically, the problems with the Audi 5 speeds was a contributing factor in my decision to buy a V8 with the 6. Next time I'll get the W12. It's a marvelous engine. I want black with a black interior next time around.


----------



## maz60 (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

I do love the picture of the "Audi god"
http://www.audipages.com/Tech_....html
"Lifetime fluid". 
Very true, when a $10,000 transmission fails on a car worth . . . .?








Mike


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

Anyone have any thoughts about VW taking action to prevent the corss contamination of the coolant in the transmission fluid? Have they designed new O-rings or valves when they replace the cooler and transmission?


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

David,
The coolant can looks pretty solid. The photo I posted shows the plate that holds it on bent by the force of impact, but the can is completely intact with a small dent. I'll take a hacksaw to it sometime and have a look inside. I expect to see a coil of tubing for the ATF and an open "box" that the coolant migrates through. What could spring a leak? Corrosion or some sort of stress crack in a coil?


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

This sounds fairly obvious to me the way you describe it. Unfortunately, I am being told they are not sure what happened as nothing looks damaged at all, except the transmission due to the coolant.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_Michael, do you have any insights?

Hi David:
No, none at all. I was in Dresden on Monday of this week and I asked the engineering and quality folks there if they knew anything about 6 speed transmission problems, and they said no, they had not heard of any problems at all. I then went to my Swiss VW dealer and asked them to check through all the technical notes issued for the Phaeton since 2003, and there were no references of any kind to transmission problems on the Phaeton.
However - here we are today, with several well known and well respected forum members having quite serious transmission problems. So, either there is some kind of remarkable coincidence happening, or, perhaps there is a problem of some kind. At this stage of the game, though, I have no idea at all what the problem could possibly be. Hell, I didn't even know it was possible for engine coolant to get into a transmission - I thought the engine coolant only cooled the cylinders and stuff like that, and never went anywhere near the transmission.
Our 'forum friends' in Dresden asked me to please collect the VINs of the cars that are having transmission problems, and then to forward the VINs to Dresden. That will allow the quality team people there to study the matter in more detail, see if there is any common link (e.g. transmissions within a certain serial number range, etc.), and also to review the individual case files for each vehicle that has had a transmission problem.
So - if your Phaeton has encountered transmission problems, please post your VIN here, and I will forward all this information to Dresden (truth is, I am pretty sure the Dresden team lurks here on the forum, so, the faster you get the VIN in, the faster the investigation can begin).
As for the link to the Audi transmission pages that Mike (Maz60) provided - the information there is fascinating, however, we have an entirely different generation of transmissions in our Phaetons (the NAR V8 uses the 'GUH' transmission), so, I don't think we can carry the conclusions in the Audi article directly over to the Phaeton. Nonetheless, it is very interesting to read about the initial symptoms that are described here: Automatic Transmission Noises and Troubleshooting.
Michael


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I would rather email you my VIN if that is ok.
The fact that the folks in dresden have heard nothing is a little alarming, since my service manager is communicating with others who are encountering the same issue. I am wondering if, over time and temperature exposure, cracks are develping within the cooler, causing the leaks. I was told there was no noticeable external damage at all to the cooler. They indicated to me they were talking to the engineers in Dresden, so i wonder who it was they spoke to.
Since the cooler is the same design, hopefully the issue is tied to a specific lot number or something, and not a design flaw.
I have 45K miles and I do have one of the first here in Indianapolis. Others have complained about the "clunk" between 1st and 2nd gear (when stopping) - which is what i experienced for 6 months. My service manager indicates that this was a sign of what was going on. The new transmission performs better than my orginal ever did - imperceptible and smooth as melted chocolate.


_Modified by dzier at 9:46 AM 11-30-2006_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

Hi David:
Sure, zip me an email.
Support for vehicles in the field is normally handled by VW of America first, then by specialists in Wolfsburg second. The factory people normally don't get directly involved in the service loop, although they do get feedback from Wolfsburg. In our case, we here in the forum have a pretty good informal relationship with the folks in Dresden because so many of us have gone to the factory and met the staff. Hope that explains things better.
Michael


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (PanEuropean)*

Michael, I'll email you mine too.
I'm back at the service department again this morning. Seems a front left tire and wheel were damaged somehow. It's a hard thing to point fingers about something like that, but I'm pretty fanatical about my wheels and tires and the damage is fresh. There's a chip at the edge of the rim and a slice in the sidewall - a kind of "V" shaped flap hanging there. Not safe, although the TPMS isn't objecting to the insult.
Sitting in the waiting room reading the Vortex...


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

SOunds like they are guilty..... my dealer has done similar things, but they wait to see if i notice.... But they have gotten better.


----------



## JCD (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (PanEuropean)*

I will also e-mail you my VIN. My V10 car has been in the workshop for four weeks now! Most of this time was to wait for a J518 Access/Start control module and then it needed a further Keyless entry module as well.
My transmission generates a 'thud' when slowing down to very slow speeds, ie changing from 2 to 1. The thud is intermittent and varies from being just irritating to feeling as though someone has driven into the back of the car. When parking, the car can feel as though it is going to lurch forward to hit the wall etc.
About six weeks ago the car had to be taken on a trailer to the dealer - it turned out that there was a broken wire between the transmission itself and the transmission / engine controller. When this failed the car really did not want to stop when approaching the first roundabout and then 'hammered' on and off as I limped the remaining mile to work.
Currently the dealer agrees that the transmission is not performing correctly but is at a loss as to what is the cause - they had hoped it was related to the J518 even though I had thought that unlikely. I am getting sick of the 1.9l Golf diesel (auto) that I have been driving for the past month!
John


_Modified by JCD at 10:28 AM 11-30-2006_


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

Key battery replaced for $5, message gone. They indicated the battery voltage did not even register it was so low when they relplaced it. Why doesn't the message say "key battery low" instead of bettery missing?


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_Key battery replaced for $5, message gone. They indicated the battery voltage did not even register it was so low when they relplaced it. Why doesn't the message say "key battery low" instead of bettery missing?

All three of our key batteries were replaced free by VW Wellesley (MA) when the message "Key battery low" (or similar) was displayed. We never got the "missing" message.


_Modified by car_guy at 6:32 AM 12-1-2006_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_ They indicated the battery voltage did not even register it was so low when they relplaced it. Why doesn't the message say "key battery low" instead of bettery missing?

I can only guess that if the voltage of the battery drops below a certain very low threshold (a second threshold), the car assumes that the battery is missing, rather than simply in a low voltage condition.
If the techncian told you that the battery voltage did not even register when he or she tested it, then it is reasonable for the car to assume that there is no battery present in the key.
Michael


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

Any updates on the status of your car?


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

Everything appears to be fine since I picked it up Wednesday night. 
The dealer offered to replace the damaged tire at the $280.00 wholesale cost to me - and mount and balance it ree. 
I requested he mount and balance my 4 Blizzak snows instead. He agreed. I'll find another tire on ebay.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Everything appears to be fine since I picked it up Wednesday night.

Great to hear that, Fred, I'm happy that everything turned out OK.
I have recieved everyone's emails with the VIN numbers and will forward the information to Dresden tomorrow.
Michael


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

I am curious as to how your transmission is working. I think Mine is better then when it was new. However, with a years worth of clunking, or more, I guess it is hard to tell.


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

My Phaeton was an untitled demo with 10k miles on it when I bought it in May of 2005. The transmission was noisy from the start of my ownership. Moans, whines, seal barks. The new one is certainly better. It's been quiet and smooth shifting over these past five days and 150 miles. Ask me again in 35,000 miles.


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

GOOD NEWS!! I hope.
Phaeton Customer care confirmed with Dresden that the cooler has been redesigned, and that the redesign is the only one available for replacement. The issue should not happen again.
Michael, is there any way to confirm that?



_Modified by dzier at 7:49 AM 12-7-2006_


----------



## ArtWarshaw (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

Fred and David
How bad was this "clunking"? 
I've noticed when I hit the gas and then coast for a bit that when the gears shift from 2 to 3 there is occasionally a bit of a clunk. That is the only symptom I've noticed but now you've got me wondering if mine is going up. I've got 20K on the clock
Thanks
Art


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (ArtWarshaw)*

My clunk was different. After a mile or two of travel, not while cold, the shift from first to second had a 'slip' and a 'clunk'. From a dead stop, accelerate in first, slip clunk, then continue on accelerating in second. The other shifts were smooth as silk. The problem wasn't noticeable on very slow acceleration nor in fast acceleration. Just on medium, every day stop and go traffic. It never happened first thing in the morning commute - I had to go a mile or two before it started the slip clunk stuff. Since I work six miles from home it took a while for me to notice the problem, but it got worse and worse over a couple of months. 
BTW, by 'clunk' I do not mean to suggest there was a noise - but rather a 'clunky' shift or a 'grab' after a 'slip' feeling. Not a noise.



_Modified by Paldi at 11:24 AM 12-7-2006_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_Michael, is there any way to confrom that?

I'll ask my friends.








For what it's worth, I am going to change the fluid and filter in my 5 speed automatic transmission later this week. Because I plan to keep the car a long time, I think the $350 or so in parts costs justifies the expense. It is a cheap insurance policy against having to buy a $8,000+ transmission a few years down the road.
The information on the AudiWorld site (link provided in an earlier post, above) about maintaining the 6 speed ZF transmissions is *superb*, it is well worth going to that site and having a look at it.
Michael


----------



## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

Do you know when VW started using the "new" cooler on the assembly line?


_Modified by petermueller at 10:14 AM 12-7-2006_


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (petermueller)*

Changing the defective cooler before it self-destructs and takes the transmission with it doesn't appear to be difficult or expensive, all things considered.


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

David:
Have you noticed any change is gas mileage? Mine has apparently dropped off considerably. I'm thinking the transmission needs to loosen up by driving it a bit before the MPG I'm accustomed to returns. Highway consumption has dropped to about 16 MPG from 19 MPG, this over four samplings...


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## ArtWarshaw (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

Fred
This may have nothing to do with you issue but, have your settings been changed? ROW vs NAR? That could cause an apparent drop in mileage if you changed from ROW to NAR. 
Art


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (ArtWarshaw)*

I haven't asked for any changes. Michael did my 'chimes' in July '05. The 'valet' icon goes on when I press the button so I assume it's not set to Imperial gallons. Either one or the other, correct?


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## ArtWarshaw (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

It seems to me that when my tech changed the chimes he did so by setting it to ROW which would be imperial gallons. If it was changed back to NAR settings the mileage reading would drop by 20%.
That said, are you looking at the infotainment system to do your mileage samplings or are you using a calculator and the odometer?


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (ArtWarshaw)*

Art:
My 'key in ignition' chime is working again, so it appears you win the prize! My average MPG on the infotainment - 300 miles since the transmission was put in, is 15.7 MPG with a mix of 70% highway and 30% stop and go commute. The data sample is too small to be scientific at this stage, but I notice its lower than before the transmission change and evident recode. I also just switched yesterday to shorter 27" inch tall Blizzaks from the 27.7" tall P-Zeros and this may also have an affect.



_Modified by Paldi at 6:32 PM 12-8-2006_


----------



## pretendcto (Nov 23, 2005)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_...Have you noticed any change is gas mileage? Mine has apparently dropped off considerably....

Fred,
I think the drop off in gas mileage is probably caused by the battery being disconnected during the transmission swap. The adaptive maps in the engine and transmission ECU were, most likely, reset during this procedure and it will take some time for them to re-learn their optimal settings. Of course, there is also the cold weather and the winter fuel blend to add to the mix.
PS - I have noticed that my Passat gas mileage drops considerably for a few hundred miles if I re-adapt the throttle. I tried this while troubleshooting a very, very minor tip-in lag.
Paul


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (pretendcto)*

Thanks Paul, that's encouraging. I monitor the readout on the display in the gauge cluster and almost never the trip data readout.


----------



## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (dzier)*

David & Michael,
I too would be interested in finding out from which VIN number did the factory adopt the new cooler. I have an early 05 and am beginning to worry. So far, I have not experienced any clunks. However, I have noticed some (faint) tremors in the driveline when accelerating from low speeds. This usually happens in sportmode, and is more noticeable when going uphill.
Michael, I will e-mail you my vin number as well, if you don't mind. Given how much I rely on the Phaeton, if a majore preventive repair is needed I'd prefer to plan ahead.
Stefano


----------



## ArtWarshaw (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Paldi)*

Hi Fred
Sounds like maybe a dechiming is necessary!!







That will make those numbers look better!!!
Art


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (ArtWarshaw)*

Perception is everything. LOL
I am now chimed and de-chined. I wanna be chined and de-chimed.


_Modified by Paldi at 1:09 PM 12-9-2006_


----------



## pretendcto (Nov 23, 2005)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Motorista)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Motorista* »_... However, I have noticed some (faint) tremors in the driveline when accelerating from low speeds. This usually happens in sportmode, and is more noticeable when going uphill. ...

Sounds like partial engagement of the torque converter clutch and totally normal. The torque converter clutch is the mechanism (inside the fluid coupling aka torque converter) that provides the direct link between engine and transmission, you can feel it when it's behaving aggressively like when the shifter is in sport mode or in the tiptronic gate. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (pretendcto)*

I changed the transmission fluid in my 5 speed transmission this week. The motivation was partly preventative maintenance, and partly curiosity to see what was inside a transmission. I made a post about it here: Changing Transmission Fluid on the 5 speed (FGE) Transmission.
I have not seen the final bill yet, but I caught glimpses of it as the parts were being signed out to my work order. I expect the parts bill is going to be about USD $400 or so, the vast majority of that being the cost of the fluid, which is very, very expensive. Because this work was elective in nature and I had no problem with the car, I pay for it.
Michael


----------



## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (pretendcto)*

Thanks for clarifying - that might indeed explain it, as I seem to have started experiencing it after I began to use the sport mode more often.


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*V8 Phaeton gas milage after trans swap.*

I'm seeing 20 -23 MPG on the highway now. I guess things settled down or loosened up.


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: V8 Phaeton gas milage after trans swap. (Paldi)*

My mileage seems to be the same, but maybe a tiny bit better in town - closer to 17 than 16.
So far so good - it reamains as smoth as the day got it back before Thanksgiving.


----------



## mkerr (Dec 12, 2005)

I'm noticing a kind of halting delay (lurch?) between 1 and 2 and 2 and 3 -- thought it was a delay in the throttle, but this thread is making me wonder. april 2004 production (v8). I notice this mostly at low speeds, but it happens during both acceleration and breaking. It's kind of a pain in stop-and-go traffic, because i'm either surging or downshift-slowing in unexpected ways.
Is this behavior what the transmission victims saw early on? I'm at 38k.


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (mkerr)*

Mine was just the 1-2 shift at part throttle. If I was moving very slowly from rest it wouldn't slip and grab, however it might have been slipping. At hard throttle acceleration it wouldn't do it, I assume because the line pressure was higher or the computer was making the shift too quick for it to slip. I never noticed it on a 2-3 shift or during downshifting while coasting to a stop.
At first I thought the computer in the transmission controller "learned" a bad habit which could be cleared by Vag-Com setting something back to ZERO and letting it relearn. That was wishful thinking.


----------



## dododavis (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: (Paldi)*

Uh oh, this sounds bad. When I had trans issues and tried to get a change of trans fluid, it resulted in a torque converter change (as well as the obvious change of trans fluid). Everything seemed good for the past month, but my “shuttering/surging” issue is coming back. I wonder if this could be contributing. I do not think this issue was raised with my dealership, and I don’t know if I have had low trans fluid or anything. I assume there was no trans fluid sample sent to eval for leaking coolant.
Paneuropean – I will email you my VIN. I have a 2005 V8, by the way.
Motorista – I had the same problem you state, had my torque converter replaced a month ago. Car was trouble free until this week, and now the shuttering/surging is happening again, very very subtle, but it is back. I posted a lot over the past 2 months. 
Predencto – Motorista posted - However, I have noticed some (faint) tremors in the driveline when accelerating from low speeds. This usually happens in sportmode, and is more noticeable when going uphill. ..., 
And you replied this may be normal, and I must respectfully disagree, as this describes the problem I had that got worse and worse, to the point that random people riding in my car said “I don’t know what that is, but your trans is broken”. And, as above, I ended up with the torque converter change.
The fact that my problem was fixed for awhile, and is now coming back, has me wondering if I have a coolant leak problem.


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (dododavis)*

Don't go by my experience because they said mine had burned fluid, probably not contaminated by coolant. However, the one may lead to the other. My coolant was low when I took it in...


_Modified by Paldi at 1:29 PM 12-19-2006_


----------



## pretendcto (Nov 23, 2005)

*Re: (dododavis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dododavis* »_... Predencto – Motorista posted - However, I have noticed some (faint) tremors in the driveline when accelerating from low speeds. This usually happens in sportmode, and is more noticeable when going uphill. ..., 
And you replied this may be normal, and I must respectfully disagree, as this describes the problem I had that got worse and worse, to the point that random people riding in my car said “I don’t know what that is, but your trans is broken”. And, as above, I ended up with the torque converter change.

I still think the very slight shuddering is the normal activation of the TCC (torque converter clutch) however, if it gets progressively worse, then it's probably a sign of fluid contamination or degradation. Automatic transmissions depend on knowing the exact frictional properties of the fluid used, otherwise unpredictable behavior is the result.
I wonder if a quick reset of the transmission 'adaptive' maps would shed some clues on this behavior? In other words, a reset to default ...


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (pretendcto)*

Just a shout out - how's everyone doing with tranny issues. My new one is holding up fine. Just passed 38,000 miles 2k of which is on the new one.


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: (Paldi)*

I am at 46K, about 1.5K with the new one, and it has been great.
My car has been in the shop since last wednesday for speaker replacement in driver door, and steering wheel noise. It will be a week tomorrow for those two things. ARGH!


----------



## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (PanEuropean)*

What is the life cycle before changing the Trans Fluid. My car is at 47,000 and it would be helpful to know what to have the dealer do at the 50,000 and final free







service. I sure will miss that part of the Phaeton deal.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (Kcmover)*

There is no change interval specified for the transmission fluid. In theory, it is a 'lifetime' fluid. In practice - maybe it might be worth looking at around the 4 year or 80,000 mile mark if you plan to keep the car forever. Otherwise, I would not be concerned about it.
There is also some anecdotal evidence that changing the fluid may have a bit of a bad effect on things. The fluid, when new, contains a certain amount of solvents. So, if you change 100% of the fluid in a transmission, all of a sudden you are flushing little bits of dirt and crud free, and these can block tiny passages and cause operational problems.
I changed my ATF at about 35,000 miles, more out of curiosity about the process than for any good reason. The fluid, filter, and the magnets in the pan all looked to be in fine shape when I changed it. There's a post describing the process here: Changing Transmission Fluid on the 5 speed (FGE) Transmission. The fluid changing process for the 6 speed is almost identical.
Michael


----------



## timwall (May 10, 2007)

*Re: Transmission Needs Replacement (PanEuropean)*

Hi I had to comment on this.
It seems to me, there is no doubt, there is an issue here!
I have had a new gearbox at ca. 30,000miles. The gearbox 'clunking' described previously on downshifts from 2 - 1 is exactly as I experienced and the ATF had 'boiled'. No mention of engine coolant mixed in and no mention that this problem has ever been reported previousdy.
After the change, back to a very smooth change...then! Further problems as the system went into 'limp home mode'. Gearbox valves and solenoids were diagnosed as malfunctioning, and replaced. Then the clunking came back.
When I reported this to the dealer they started a very detailed investigation, and are now fitting a new engine at 42K (V10 diesel)
The engine change is due to low compression in one cylinder and the theory is that this may be causing gearbox problems. I'm not convinced.
I've had the car for 2.5 years and it's been in the shop for around 6 months!
VW have offered a goodwill gesture that doesn't come close to covering an extended warranty (essential with this history) so am looking at changing the car as it is just coming out of the 3 year UK warranty.
I love the car and am considering a newer model with the same engine.







I must be mad, but will give it one more chance.
I'm looking at a late '05 V10, I hope it's not got the same issues.
Tim


----------



## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: (pretendcto)*

Paul,
Could you be a little more specific on your recommendation? The shudders I have reported have ever so slighlty increased in frequency, and now both on standard and sport mode. Car has 28k miles.
Stefano


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

At 43,000 miles all is well with mine since the replacement at 35,000.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Motorista)*

Here is a link to a recent post that discusses a VW of America "Tech Tip", published during week 18 of 2007, that addresses vibration and shudder concerns coming from V8 powered Phaetons. The V8 Phaeton uses the 6 speed transmission. I don't know whether this Tech Tip alludes to transmission matters or not.
Here is the link: Vibrations between 1,600 and 2,000 RPM - V8 powered Phaetons, and below you will find an image of the tech tip.
Before you take any action based on reading this tech tip, please read this post: Technical Bulletins (TB) - Philosophy, How to Use, Index. I originally posted this in the Eos forum, but it also applies to all other VW vehicles.
Michael

*Tech Tip 07-70*


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

*Archival Note:*
For information about transmission concerns on *V8 * powered Phaetons that use the 6 speed transmission, see these posts: 
2004 -06 Phaeton with V8; Vibration/Shudder Concerns
6 Speed Automatic Transmission Concerns (V8 Phaetons)
For information about transmission concerns on *W12 * powered Phaetons that use the 5 speed transmission, see this post:
Does my W12 need a new Torque Converter?
Transmission Function Concerns (includes TBs 32-06-01 and 37-05-01)

Please do not confuse the two transmissions! There are known issues that affect a minority of the Phaetons out there with both of the transmissions, but the two transmissions are as different as chalk and cheese! All V8 Phaetons have a 6 speed transmission installed, and all W12 Phaetons have a 5 speed transmission installed. There is no carry-over and no correlation between the problems described and solutions provided for the two different transmissions!
Michael


----------



## vipa (Nov 20, 2006)

*Re: The seal is barking! (Paldi)*

I have the same transmission symptom (seal barking) on my Phaeton V8 2004 - 67000 Km. Today my VW service technician took an oil sample from the transmission and found metal fills on it (tested with a magnet). Transmission oil is dark and we have noticed a strong burning smell. Transmission will be renewed.


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: The seal is barking! (vipa)*

Sounds like the diagnosis for mine too. Failed at 35,000 miles and was replaced under warranty. No problems now at 48,000 miles.


----------



## baremytone (Dec 7, 2007)

*whining noise too*

This thread is great but it scares me. I have the slippage between 1st and 2nd under light acceleration but also have a whining noise that is consistent. I can shift to neutral and the noise is still there so it is related to car speed not engine speed - could this be related to the transmission trouble? I also have read about wheel bearings needing replacement. My car is an 04 and is about no. 350 made. It has 39,000 miles and two months of warranty left. I don't have any clunking noise as others seem to have.
Thanks for your input. I've had to car for 2 weeks and really love it but it worries me - gonna check out the extended warranties for sure.
Brian.


----------



## gregraq (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: whining noise too (baremytone)*

My 2004 Phaeton needed a new transmission 3 months after I purchased it brand new. Symptom included slippage between gears and transmission fluid leakeage. After replaced, never had a problem, however was a major concern for such a premium car after such a short period of ownership (< 5,000 miles).
Greg


----------



## PHAETON8 (Feb 12, 2006)

*Re: whining noise too (baremytone)*

Had same thing between 1 and 2. Dealer replaced valve body under 
war. No problems anymore!
Good-Luck


----------



## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*V8 Transmission Vibrations Resolved*

For well over a year now I had been experiencing transmission vibrations in the range between 1500 and roughly 2500 rpm in my '05 V8. This happened regularly regardless of whether the transmission was in D or S, and, subjectively, it had become worse over the approximately 12 months since I first noticed it.
So I reported the problem to my trusted Phaeton Tech, Larry, at Day Audi VW in Pittsburgh, and he first suspected the torque converter and started planning its replacement. However, when I dropped off the car about a month ago, he got in touch with Auburn Hills, and, upon their recommendation, performed the following procedures instead:
"TCM & ECM controllers flashed via telediagnosis // ATF fluid flushed and replaced with different spec." 
Upon pick up I was advised that it would take approximately 500 miles for these procedures to have an effect. However, I felt the difference as soon as I drove off the dealership: the transmission was shifting perfectly, and subjectively much more crisply, especially in S mode, and the tremors were absolutely gone. A month and about 1500 miles later, transmission operation is still perfect. 
Needless to say, I am delighted at the outcome, especially as it did not require any major surgery. As luck would have it, Larry was off that day, so I do not have details on the procedures other than the service record as quoted above. However, I plan to call him or drop by in the near future to garner some details, which I will post here. This also confirmed my very positive experience with the dealer and Larry especially: he really loves and understands Phaetons. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
By the way, another procedure was doen at the same time, in response to an error code: Larry replaced the solenoid for the motor mounts. I understand that this is a pretty rare error code, and I doubt that it had anything to do with the vibrations, but I thought I would add it here for the sake of completeness.
Stefano


----------



## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: V8 Transmission Vibrations Resolved (Motorista)*

The new transmission fluid may have solved the shudder that you experienced. I would be interested in exactly what fluid was put into your vehicle.


----------



## wkoenning (Jan 9, 2008)

*Re: V8 Transmission Vibrations Resolved (Motorista)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Motorista* »_For well over a year now I had been experiencing transmission vibrations in the range between 1500 and roughly 2500 rpm in my '05 V8. This happened regularly regardless of whether the transmission was in D or S, and, subjectively, it had become worse over the approximately 12 months since I first noticed it.
So I reported the problem to my trusted Phaeton Tech, Larry, at Day Audi VW in Pittsburgh, and he first suspected the torque converter and started planning its replacement. However, when I dropped off the car about a month ago, he got in touch with Auburn Hills, and, upon their recommendation, performed the following procedures instead:
"TCM & ECM controllers flashed via telediagnosis // ATF fluid flushed and replaced with different spec." 
Upon pick up I was advised that it would take approximately 500 miles for these procedures to have an effect. However, I felt the difference as soon as I drove off the dealership: the transmission was shifting perfectly, and subjectively much more crisply, especially in S mode, and the tremors were absolutely gone. A month and about 1500 miles later, transmission operation is still perfect. 
Needless to say, I am delighted at the outcome, especially as it did not require any major surgery. As luck would have it, Larry was off that day, so I do not have details on the procedures other than the service record as quoted above. However, I plan to call him or drop by in the near future to garner some details, which I will post here. This also confirmed my very positive experience with the dealer and Larry especially: he really loves and understands Phaetons. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
By the way, another procedure was doen at the same time, in response to an error code: Larry replaced the solenoid for the motor mounts. I understand that this is a pretty rare error code, and I doubt that it had anything to do with the vibrations, but I thought I would add it here for the sake of completeness.
Stefano

Motorista,
Something must be going on here. Please see my post from this morning on the same exact topic and same exact resolution. I termed my issue to be shuddering, but you could call it vibrations as well.
I hope we both have positive long term results as well. Good luck.


----------



## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: V8 Transmission Vibrations Resolved (wkoenning)*

Wallace,
Very interesting. I will get fluid specs and post as soon as possible.
Stefano


----------



## VW Dealer Tech (Jun 14, 2003)

*Re: V8 Transmission Vibrations Resolved (Motorista)*

Keeping it simple and short, here is what I did to Stefano's Phaeton.
1- drained the trans fluid
2- refilled with new type fluid
3- let run to mix it all up
4- drained fluid again
5- refilled again with new type fluid.
6- the process consumed about 10L of fluid.
7- engine and trans modules were then flashed by VW tech department. From what I was told the trans pressures were raised slightly. There may also have been other changes but I don't know.

Regards,
Larry
The new spec fluid is blueish in color and has the part number of G055-162A2


----------



## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: V8 Transmission Vibrations Resolved (VW Dealer Tech)*

Thank you for clarifying, Larry! 
Stefano


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: V8 Transmission Vibrations Resolved (Motorista)*

*Archival Note:*
I merged the recent posts from Larry and Stefano onto the end of this existing discussion of V8 (6 speed) transmission concerns... it seems to me that it is a good idea to have the solution tagged on to the end of the 5 pages of discussion of the problem!








Many thanks to both Larry and Stefano for their very valuable contributions.
Michael


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: V8 Transmission Vibrations Resolved (Motorista)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Motorista* »_"TCM & ECM controllers flashed via telediagnosis // ATF fluid flushed and replaced with different spec." 

So my question is should the flush and fill and/or the flashing of the controllers be done on Phaetons that have not shown any transmission problems? W12 vs. V8? Or should we just leave well enough alone?
Steven


----------



## VW Dealer Tech (Jun 14, 2003)

my thinking is if it's not broke then don't fix it.


----------



## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: (VW Dealer Tech)*

Update report: 6000 miles later, transmission is still operating flawlessly: hooray for Larry at Day VW Audi in Pittsburgh and VOA for their help in finding the solution! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Stefano


----------



## mattsimis (Sep 19, 2005)

Is the same transmission used in the V10? I notice 2 minor oddities:
- Chirping when flooring it to overtake, sounds like a Turbo wastegate venting, which is understandable since the V10 is twin turbo
- Slightly clunky shifting from 2nd to 1st occasionaly and only in drive mode. No really a problem, but seems a bit crude in a such a sophisticated car


----------



## itsallbeendonebefore (May 13, 2007)

*V8 Transmission Vibrations Resolved*

i had mentioned a couple months ago about having the same vibration problem so since my 60k maintenance was due, i went to the service manager and mentioned about the tech tip for the shuddering that was happening and i am happy to say the problem has been resolved. 
The tech called the VW helpline which put him through to a certified phaeton tech somewhere and said that the computer needs to be re-flashed along with the correct transmission fluid replacement. the fluid was replaced by flushing the existing one and adding the correct one, then flushing the first batch of the correct one and adding a second batch to complete the solution (as mentioned by every person who had this done)
i did not ask for specifics since i was too excited to have my car back in tip top shape. i shall report back in the future with the progress and like others who have had it done, i am hoping i will only have a worry free transmission even another 300k miles later. 
i should also mention that the delaership (Autobahn VW of fort worth) gave me a loaner, a 2009 passat 2.0T, and the whole job was done in one day. looking at the bill the cost of the fluid totals up to $630 (2 sets) without labor and taxes. the 60k service was about $350 with labor and tax as opposed to some $2500







i was hearing about in another thread








looking forward to many more miles of happy driving


----------



## mhoepfin (Dec 20, 2007)

*Re: V8 Transmission Vibrations Resolved (itsallbeendonebefore)*


_Quote, originally posted by *itsallbeendonebefore* »_i had mentioned a couple months ago about having the same vibration problem so since my 60k maintenance was due, i went to the service manager and mentioned about the tech tip for the shuddering that was happening and i am happy to say the problem has been resolved. 
The tech called the VW helpline which put him through to a certified phaeton tech somewhere and said that the computer needs to be re-flashed along with the correct transmission fluid replacement. the fluid was replaced by flushing the existing one and adding the correct one, then flushing the first batch of the correct one and adding a second batch to complete the solution (as mentioned by every person who had this done)
i did not ask for specifics since i was too excited to have my car back in tip top shape. i shall report back in the future with the progress and like others who have had it done, i am hoping i will only have a worry free transmission even another 300k miles later. 
i should also mention that the delaership (Autobahn VW of fort worth) gave me a loaner, a 2009 passat 2.0T, and the whole job was done in one day. looking at the bill the cost of the fluid totals up to $630 (2 sets) without labor and taxes. the 60k service was about $350 with labor and tax as opposed to some $2500







i was hearing about in another thread








looking forward to many more miles of happy driving









60k service they should have also changed the spark plugs... did they do that for $350?
Glad to hear the transmission problem is resolved!!


----------



## GS340 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: V8 Transmission Vibrations Resolved (mhoepfin)*

I'm close to the 60k mile mark and my dealer recently quoted me $2500 to do a fluid flush. The fluid was majority of the cost. It doesn't make 1 bit of sense why it would cost $2xxx for trans fluid.


----------



## itsallbeendonebefore (May 13, 2007)

*Re: V8 Transmission Vibrations Resolved (mhoepfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mhoepfin* »_
60k service they should have also changed the spark plugs... did they do that for $350?
Glad to hear the transmission problem is resolved!!

just to revise and give u some accurate data, the 60k maintenance which included spark plug replacement, oil change, filter change, washer, filter element?, and some others came out to be $400** including labor and tax. 
the ATF fluid cost was at $56/quart for 12 quarts? coming to $673** without labor and tax.
i will be driving almost 800 miles in the next two weeks and i will report from time to time so this will ease the minds of those with the problem at the moment or the ones that could have this happen (hopefully not) to them in the future.
Robert, the fluid by itself only cost approx $680. u should inquire about how much they are charging you per quart. the amount of time it took for my tech to reflash the ECM was ~3 hours. my total bill came close to 1.4k including labor and tax for both. maybe u should try a different dealer? 2.5k definitely is a rip off.
**prices may vary depending on dealership









_Modified by itsallbeendonebefore at 5:22 PM 5-16-2009_


_Modified by itsallbeendonebefore at 5:24 PM 5-16-2009_


----------



## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: V8 Transmission Vibrations Resolved (VW Dealer Tech)*

Hi Russell,
Before you start stipping your gearbox down ask your tech to see what grade gear oil you have in, flushing could sort your problem out .
Tony

_Quote, originally posted by *VW Dealer Tech* »_Keeping it simple and short, here is what I did to Stefano's Phaeton.
1- drained the trans fluid
2- refilled with new type fluid
3- let run to mix it all up
4- drained fluid again
5- refilled again with new type fluid.
6- the process consumed about 10L of fluid.
7- engine and trans modules were then flashed by VW tech department. From what I was told the trans pressures were raised slightly. There may also have been other changes but I don't know.

Regards,
Larry
The new spec fluid is blueish in color and has the part number of G055-162A2


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: V8 Transmission Vibrations Resolved (plastech)*

Hi Folks:
There are about 5 different transmission fluids in use on all the various VW products at the moment (refer to the attached 'Tech Tips' bulletin from VW).
Please be very careful to make sure that you are using the correct fluid for the transmission in your vehicle. The exact specification for the transmission fluid may be found either in the appendix (technical specifications) section of the owner manual, or in the VW repair manual.
Michael


----------



## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*transmission problems*

I know Michael doesn't like VW bashing so I want to put a positive twist to my post. So the experience I share is only for your information and input. 
My transmission has begun acting strangely. First sign was some extremely harsh downshifts as car comes to a stop. Almost as if downshift was delayed and then occured just before stopping. In addition, transmission did not engage twice and engine was able to rev without any vehicle movement. I was going to take car on a road trip but decided it was best not to as I was concerned about ruining the transmission and I did not want to get stranded. Once I returned, I drove it again and observed it harshly hunting between 1st and 2nd gear while cruising a parking lot(with a steady throttle). I believe that if I continued to drive the car, especially if hard, the entire transmission would fail; so I took it in to a VW dealer with a Phaeton certified tech and after several days found that they had flashed the transmission controller and wanted to change the fluid(twice) and probably the filter to see if that would fix it. The car is a CPO with an additional year of coverage. Much to my dismay, I was told that VW expected me to pay for the fluid changing procedure(approximately $1000). I promptly told them that did not make any sense to me since I considered this operation to be a repair procedure and not one of service or maintenance. In other words the fluid replacement was to solve a problem in the operation of the transmission. I asked for the VW customer service number and was routed to Phaeton/Touareg Customer Care(PCC) and was essentially told the same story. I mentioned to PCC that the ATF was supposedly designed for the life of the car. He said he was unaware of any such claims by VW even though there are no periodic maintenance requirements.
Another piece of info is that the local dealer did say VW would reimburse me for the fluid change if that did not solve the problem and they would move forward from that point. In addition, the story may change as Phaeton Customer Care is to contact me by the end of business on Monday with their "final answer".
Do you think I'm being unreasonable not wanting to pay for a procedure to correct a defect in the operation of my transmission? Oh by the way I'm the same person that just payed $1300 out of pocket to replace under-rated tires(load rating = 99) that were on my CPO Phaeton when purchased. The service records on the car indicate it has never been serviced anywhere except at a VW dealer and that includes the tire installations. 
As you can tell, I am very unhappy with VW at this point. However, if they do what I think is the right thing, I'll be sure to let you know. If they don't, does anyone want to buy two VWs(Phaeton & Touareg)?










_Modified by Jxander at 4:39 PM 7-26-2009_


----------



## mhoepfin (Dec 20, 2007)

Sounds like you need a new dealer...
Since VW does not publish what is and isn't covered by the CPO warranty, it will be hard for them to deny this claim. There was someone else on the board who called Phaeton customer care to see exactly what the CPO covered and was told it is basically the factory warranty but without the maintenance.
You should continue to escalate. Or, you could tell them that you expect it to be fixed in a manner that doesn't require you to spend any money. Perhaps you should take a hard line approach and suggest that maybe they just put a whole new transmission in instead, since that would be fully covered by your CPO warranty!
This story is upsetting to me...
Good luck, keep us posted.


----------



## testarossaguy (Aug 13, 2007)

*Re: (mhoepfin)*

I can relate to your story....when I was an Audi owner I went through 3 repairs on a CPO car where I had to pay. One of those repairs was an incorrectly installed suspension bushing - done by the previous Audi service! I was on my 3rd A8L and was a long time loyal customer. I went through all official channels and still had to pay out hundreds for items that should have been detected during the CPO certification process, etc. I finally got so fed up that I left Audi and got the Phaeton. My wife always has a VW...and now we are totally a VW family with 3 cars. Your story sounds very similar to what I went through with my Audi. I hope VW does right by you in the end.


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: transmission problems (Jxander)*

Hi Jim,
Sorry to hear about your troubles. It sounds like the dealer is afraid of being denied reimbursement from VW for the repair and just going to you for payment. I have personally performed this repair under VW CPO and power-train warranty (5yr 60K) and had no problems. I believe you have a few options you may want to consider. 
1) Have them perform the re-flash only and test drive it afterwards to see if it fixed the concern. I have seen this re-flash fix all the 1-2 harsh shift/hunt, but not the downshift. The new blue synthetic fluid is for complimenting the new ECM and TCM shift application so your transmission not engaging at all would most likely not be related. However, that may be as simple as a plugged filter which would also not be covered. 
2) Bring it to another dealer that has more Phaeton experience and most likely cover the repair.
Being that customer care is going to call you back, hopefully this can be settled at your local dealer you are already at, but if not give us an update when you hear back!


----------



## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: transmission problems (Jxander)*

Just wanted to update everyone on the latest news. I did get a call from the service manager at the local dealership and had a nice chat. He said he had talked to more VW employees than he thought they employed and they weren't going to budge on warranty of any fluids and that meant my ATF change. He did offer to only bill me for the first drain and they would absorb the second. I agreed for them to go forward with the fluid change.
I assumed that he was calling in lieu of a call that I was promised from VW(Phaeton) Customer Care. However at 7 Pm I did get a call that I missed and a message from the VW Regional Case Manager that said they were still working on a resolution. So it's still possible that VW might come through somehow. She said I would hear from her by the end of the business day tomorrow. I plan to try reaching her earlier in the day.
So the saga coninues but I am impressed with the amount of energy VW has put into the interpersonal part of customer service. The irony is that they may have already spent more resources on trying to placate me than it would have cost to fix the problem.








Thanks again for all the info and support.


----------



## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: transmission problems (Jxander)*

I just wanted to update forum members on my transmission problems. First of all, VW did pay for the entire "repair" under the CPO coverage. Initially the local dealer was going to drain two times(drive in between) and replace the ATF fluid and filter as well as reflash the ECM and TCM. When it got time for the reflash, VW Tech Line became involved via the Internet and recommended a new type of ATF fluid that was not originally in the 2004 Phaetons. So I ended up with three drains. The last two used the new ATF, G-055-162-A2. 
All seems well with the transmission so far, but I have only driven around 25 miles or so. My understanding is that the repair was complimentary only because of the requirement that the new type fluid that was not originally in the car. Hopefully this will solve the problems without something more invasive. 
KCPhaeton Tech was dead on with his diagnosis & solution process from miles away. There is no substitute for experience and we owners are lucky to have such qualified individuals helping us through troubling times.
So I'm a happy camper and my two VWs are no longer on the market.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: transmission problems (Jxander)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jxander* »_Do you think I'm being unreasonable not wanting to pay for a procedure to correct a defect in the operation of my transmission?

No, not unreasonable at all.
I'm happy to hear that it all worked out well in the end. It is unfortunate that you had difficulties in the middle, though.
I hope that the fluid change solves your problem. I was not aware that there were any software updates available for the 6 speed transmission in the V8 Phaeton. I know that there are software updates available for the Touareg transmission, but this is the first time I have heard of an update for the Phaeton.
Michael


----------



## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: transmission problems (PanEuropean)*

Michael:
Thanks for allowing me to initially whine a little. VW really did come through in the end and I feel confident that if problems persist they'll do whatever is required to solve them. 
I'm not sure but I think the reflash is only necessary if the new ATF is added. My invoice says "Flashed ECM and TCM over Internet by Tech Line. Replaced fluid and filter and test drove 10 miles." Fifteen quarts(litres) of ATF were used in the process. The first 5 qts. had part # G-055-005-A2 and the last 10 were #G-055-162-A2. I noticed that the "newer" type of ATF fluid, according to ZF tech bulletin (previously posted by PanEuropean), is for the 6HP26A61 transmission used in vehicles with the Audi W-12 engine.
So you may still be corrrect that there are no real updates for the 6 speed.


----------



## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: transmission problems (Jxander)*

Jim and Michael:
There is in fact reflash available for the ECM and TCM. It is not a published bulletin, tech tip, or campaign so there is little information if one would want to know more but I can tell you this:
The reflash is available only telediagnosticaly (performed over an Internet connection direct from VW).
The ECM is brought to software level 0040 and the TCM to level 1905. 
Reflashes are for 4.2 V8 only.
The reflash was released around late 07 so it applies to all North American 04-06 Phaetons.
Once both updates are performed a different trans fluid is required to compliment the software: G 055 162 A2. The old fluid is drained, and then flushed with the new fluid. Then the vehicle is driven and then flushed again once more with the new fluid. The G 055 162 A2 compliments the different ECM and TCM solenoid shift application. 

Let's say you wanted to change your transmission fluid or filter as a maintenance item. Depending on your software levels, you would have to then consult the chart previously posted for ZF transmissions.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: transmission problems (KCPhaetonTech)*

*Arichival Note:*
Appended Jim and Matthew's recent contributions (last 6 posts above) onto the end of this thread, which is listed in the FAQ.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: transmission problems (KCPhaetonTech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KCPhaetonTech* »_...There is in fact reflash available for the ECM and TCM._ *It is not a published bulletin, tech tip, or campaign* _so there is little information if one would want to know more but I can tell you this:
The reflash is available only telediagnosticaly (performed over an Internet connection direct from VW). The ECM is brought to software level 0040 and the TCM to level 1905. Reflashes are for 4.2 V8 only.
The reflash was released around late 07 so it applies to all North American 04-06 Phaetons.
Once both updates are performed a different trans fluid is required to compliment the software: G 055 162 A2. The old fluid is drained, and then flushed with the new fluid. Then the vehicle is driven and then flushed again once more with the new fluid. The G 055 162 A2 compliments the different ECM and TCM solenoid shift application. 

Let's say you wanted to change your transmission fluid or filter as a maintenance item. Depending on your software levels, you would have to then consult the chart previously posted for ZF transmissions. 


Hi Matthew:
I was able to find the technical publication that documents the process you explained above. It is Technical Solution 2010262/4. I was only able to get a German language copy, which I have attached. It might be possible to retrieve an English language copy of this Technical Solution from VW Hub (ELSA) in North America.
Thanks again for bringing this to our attention.
Michael


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: transmission problems (PanEuropean)*

May we safely assume that there have been no such similar updates required for the W12's 5 speed transmission?


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: transmission problems (remrem)*

Ok. I'm left with this dilemma... My V8 Phaeton is 65K and working well... Should I get the software upgrade done and fluid changed, or since nothing is broke, I shouldn't attempt to fix it ?
What's your general opinion on this ?
P.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: transmission problems (remrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_May we safely assume that there have been no such similar updates required for the W12's 5 speed transmission?

Yes, as far as I know, there is no software update of any kind for the 5 speed transmission.
Before everyone gets carried away here - be aware that this software update is only required if you change the *specification *of the transmission fluid used. If you simply change the fluid, but stay with the same specification, no update is required.
Michael


----------



## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: transmission problems (Zaphh)*

Matt is absolutely correct: the new fluid and reflash go together, as I and my Phaeton Tech Larry reported to this forum and thread in February 2008 (see posts above by Larry and me). Since then my transmission has been operating flawlessly (48k miles to-date). 
Pierre, in my case the procedure (fluid and reflash) was done because of persistent transmission tremors, which were actually increasing. If you have no symptoms, I'd lean towards leaving everything as-is. If, however, you are experiencing even mild symptoms, I'd go ahead with the procedure as those symptoms are bound to get worse with time.
Stefano


----------



## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: transmission problems (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I'm not sure this bulletin covers the transmission tremors problems that I (and some other members, I believe) have encountered. The bulletin refers to noise and harsh gear changes, while I had nothing of the sort: just tremors and hesitation between gears. Besides, it refers to an ATF fluid spec change in production that dates back to February 2005, while Matt reports a spec change that was introduced in late 2007. The rest of the procedure, however, is very consistent with what Larry did to my car. I found the description of the additional adaptation recommendations in this bulletin very interesting also, and likely universally applicable to all cases of transmission controller memory loss. thank you for finding and posting this very interesting bulletin.
Stefano


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## SingaporePhaeton (Sep 5, 2009)

Hi, I recently bought a 2005 3.2 litre Phaeton in Singapore with about 50k km on the odometer. I have noticed the same transmission problems mentioned here and everything I have read suggests the transmission is the same as the 4.2 litre. I was hoping if i could confirm that the fix described above is appropriate for the 3.2 litre as well. At this point I am about to simply bring the forum contents to my aftermarket service provider and just get him to replicate the fix. I did not buy the car with a warranty and am extremely keen to do any preventative maintenance that i should.
After i bought the car i replaced the engine mounts and found that one of them was broken which i suspect has to do with the harsh shifting. Just for record the symptoms appear to be the same - harsh downshifts from 2nd to 1st when stopping, hesitation in upshifts where the transmission slips and reengages which occasionally elicits a hard thump. I have to say I am extremely grateful that there is a group of phaeton enthusiasts out there who have documented their experiences so clearly.
Regards, KM


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: transmission problems (Jxander)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jxander* »_Michael:
Thanks for allowing me to initially whine a little. VW really did come through in the end and I feel confident that if problems persist they'll do whatever is required to solve them. 
I'm not sure but I think the reflash is only necessary if the new ATF is added. My invoice says "Flashed ECM and TCM over Internet by Tech Line. Replaced fluid and filter and test drove 10 miles." Fifteen quarts(litres) of ATF were used in the process. The first 5 qts. had part # G-055-005-A2 and the last 10 were #G-055-162-A2. I noticed that the "newer" type of ATF fluid, according to ZF tech bulletin (previously posted by PanEuropean), is for the 6HP26A61 transmission used in vehicles with the Audi W-12 engine.
So you may still be corrrect that there are no real updates for the 6 speed.

Hi all:
I was right that VW was committed to doing whatever was necessary to resolve my transmission issues. They have just authorized a new (probably rebuilt) transmission and without any prodding on my part. 
Since the fluid/filter change and reflash, I did experience some intermittent but quite harsh downshifts. Most passengers in my car, would ask what was wrong. Since I don't drive the car alot, I patiently waited for things to "clean up and free up". That never happened. However, on a 25 mile I-4 trip the transmission slipped or kicked out of gear as I pushed on the accelerator and nothing happened except 6k on the tach. I let up and it apparently went into limp mode to keep from burning itself up. All transmission mode(PRNDS) lights were lit and it apparently was operating in third gear only. I limped about one-half mile to my destination, went to my appointment and returned an hour later and all was well with transmission operation. It upshifted and downshifted as designed and I was able to drive it to my dealer. I had called my local dealer and Phaeton Customer Care to alert then to the fact that I might be calling for a tow if the transmission gave up, which it didn't. 
They looked at it today and I assume saw an error code from going into limp mode. I immediateely received a call and was told, they had authorized a replacement transmission and it was already on its way.
So have a cold one for VW. They deserve a well earned compliment.








Thanks to Michael for preaching civility when dealing with problems and VW. If I had lost it on the first round of problems, I would have likely lost the battle. However, I just kept saying the transmission is not right and I don't want to get stuck in the middle of the night on state road ???, 250 miles from a Phaeton tech. It was frustrating but I guess they don't like replacing an expensive transmission based merely on a customer's complaints of harsh downshifts. Anyway, what do we cusomers know!


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## GS340 (Oct 26, 2007)

Thoughts on this fluid for our cars?
http://www.blauparts.com/prodd...D2100


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GS340)*

There are quite a few different specifications for the fluids used in various ZF transmissions. I think that in the case of the Phaeton transmissions, we need to first pay attention to the SPECIFICATION.
I believe that there is a much greater risk of getting into trouble by putting in a high quality fluid that is the wrong specification than there is of putting in a mediocre quality fluid that is the correct specification.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Attached is a technical bulletin from VW that lists the status of various software flash updates for transmissions, and also lists the correlation of required transmission fluid specification vs. what software is in the transmission.
Note that in some cases - notably the transmission used with the V8 engine - if the software is flash-updated, the specification for the type of fluid to be used changes.
The software updates are only implemented to fix specific problems, they are not like other software updates mentioned here in the forum that apply 'across the board' to the fleet. In other words, they are 'hotfixes', not 'service packs'.
I regret that I do not have an English language copy of this document, it is in German.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Attached is a *specification sheet* from ZF that sets out what fluid should be used in what transmission. This should be congruent with what VW has published in their service documentation, but, if there is any conflict, I would go with what VW recommends, not with this ZF document. Note that this ZF document is quite recent (2009 publication).
It is in the English language.
Michael


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## Ronntar (Nov 4, 2009)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael,
as I pointed out in this post:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2967745 
there is a great new way for to change the fluid AND "wash" the whole inner Transmissionbox. Especially when having "troubles" not beeing solved by just changing the old, brown fluid and replacing it with the blue Fluid and a software update... For any further information, just ask Tim Eckhart.
btw.: He talked to me yesterday due to my problems with VW Chemnitz not beeing able to deal with the "fluid-change-topic" in a propper manner and he told me, that the is a new software update for the automtic transmission AND a new GREEN coloured Transmissionfluid! Or maybe it is just the new green fluid together with the first software update...
Maybe you can check that in the near future. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Ronntar


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## Georgic (Nov 17, 2009)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I have recently purchased a 2004 Phaeton. CPO coverage through Spetember of 2010. Currently, the car has 54,000 miles on it.
I have what I would describe as slipping between first and second gear, not so much when cold, but more often after warming up.
My "new" dealer has indicated they recognize a problem, but want $1523. to drain, fil, drive, re-flash, drain fill and drive again.
They say this is not covered under the CPO. Obviously, I am very unhappy about this, as they are calling it an update that is not covered.


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## Georgic (Nov 17, 2009)

*Re: transmission problems (Jxander)*

Seems I have a similar problem, and I am being told it is not covered.
Is there a specific person you might recommend I contact regarding this issue?


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (Georgic)*

I had a similar problem and was told the same thing. Ultimately VW required a new fluid(blue) that was different than the original fluid. They finally covered the drain, fill & reflash job based on the fact that a new type of fluid was required. However, this didn't solve my transmission problems and VW finally replaced the entire transmission under CPO warranty after the tranny went into limp mode(3rd gear only going forward) on a short highway trip.


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

*Re: (Ronntar)*

Rontar,
So how do I get in touch with Tim?
Dennis


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: (madreg98)*

Hi Martin, 
Thought it would be easier to move this over here! 


> That's good to know, thanks Matt! Although on second thoughts, not so good that you've actually had to do it! What are your thoughts on whether or not using the paddles hurts the transmission? I assume it can't, since they still work via a software interface that presumably irons out any problem requests.


100% certain no damage can be caused to the transmission. The software is programed to not allow you to shift at an unreasonable request. The reason for the replacement on the said vehicle was for a "double" 1-2 shift that was not corrected by the transmission fluid exchange and reflash.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (KCPhaetonTech)*

Good to know! Thanks! I've noticed that it quite often intervenes on downshifts, even when I wouldn't really expect it to. I've found that on tight corners the software always wants to go round them in third, but second is a much better option for performance purposes, you notice the tendency to understeer then, but if you're coming down briskly from higher gears, it'll shift all the way to third but then ignore the request for second.


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## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

*What constitutes a trans replacement?*

When a transmission is replaced due to a faulty part that seems to pop up occasionally, what does the dealer use to replace the old unit? Is it a same year transmission, or the newest available unit that will work in that car? 

My worry is that if my transmission is replaced due to a piece of it going bad, the dealership may be sent an identical unit that could very well fail in the same way, even though newer versions may be available that have been redesigned or improved. 

Can anyone shed any light?


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## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

*oil cooler changed out*

Got the car back after the transmission replacement. It took a few extra days because the oil cooler and lines were ordered as well (possibly later) and it took extra time to receive the parts. I'm interpreting that as VW has linked some of these transmission issues with the cooler and might now either require or strongly suggest replacing the old unit with a new unit if a transmission fails.

Either way, car runs great now, hats off to David Maus VW North. Next step is to get new TPMS sensors from somewhere because apparently my CPO warranty doesn't cover them (like the regular batteries). $1200 seems a bit high for replacing tire sensors.


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## unlimitedpaydays (May 24, 2008)

*Warranty letter from vw of America*

Hi everyone. About a week and a half ago, I received a letter from VW regarding an extension on the 6 speed ZF transmission on my 2004 Phaeton v8. I was wondering if, as a group of owners, have many of you had troubles you could share with the rest of us? In my case, my car went into service Nov 2004, so my extended warranty goes til Nov 2011. In addition to that I also have the Platinum warranty until Jan 8th 2014 with $100.00 deductible so I don't think I should have any major headaches to worry about the tranny, but I asking you guys for some input, thanks Dennis


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Wow, that is quite fascinating - do you have a copy of the letter (a scan) that you could post? If necessary, mail the scan to me (paneuropean at hotmail dot com) and I will de-identify the letter (remove your personal information) and then post it here for others to view.

Michael


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

Also very interested! My transmission has been making a noticeable squeal on downshifts. VW helping out with this would be amazing.

Brian


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

My 2004 V8 (odometer reads 48K) suffers the same 'loosey goosey' first to second shift that was mentioned above once everything has come up to proper operating temperature. When the transmission is cold the one - two shift is silky smooth. All other shifts (with the transmission warm or cold) from second on up are noise free, vibration free and perfectly smooth. I too await the posting of the letter from VW opcorn:.
Ron


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## Curtsr (Oct 26, 2010)

opcorn:
Sits back, pops popcorn and waits also...
This is an interesting thread to me since I have 11 months left on the CPO warranty w/ 51K miles on the clock. The transmission issue alone concerns me enough to find reasonable value in a $100/month warranty extension at a cost of $4800/ 4 yrs.
I saw earlier in this thread an attempt to identify the assembly line in-service date of the redesigned cooler. Was that ever identified, or a beginning VIN # ?


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*V6*

Hmmm... My ELSA virtual machine is down at the moment. Is this the same 6-speed that is used in the V6TDI, V10 - well, more like any but the W12?

Michael?

/p


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Yes, I believe the 6 speed is the same in all the Phaeton applications (excepting of course the very rare FWD only that was offered in Europe in 2003). The W12 uses a 5 speed.

Michael


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## unlimitedpaydays (May 24, 2008)

*vw warranty extension on 6 speed transmission*



unlimitedpaydays said:


> Hi everyone. About a week and a half ago, I received a letter from VW regarding an extension on the 6 speed ZF transmission on my 2004 Phaeton v8. I was wondering if, as a group of owners, have many of you had troubles you could share with the rest of us? In my case, my car went into service Nov 2004, so my extended warranty goes til Nov 2011. In addition to that I also have the Platinum warranty until Jan 8th 2014 with $100.00 deductible so I don't think I should have any major headaches to worry about the tranny, but I asking you guys for some input, thanks Dennis


 Hello everyone,I sent an email to( Michael) Paneuropean today about the transmission warranty extension that I got on the mail from Vw of America,Michael will post it soon for all to read, Dennis:grinsanta:


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Dennis:

Thanks very much for forwarding the letter to me, I have attached it below for the benefit of everyone.

The document below appears as a thumbnail, double-click on it to open it. There are three pages in the PDF.

Michael


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Dennis and Michael:

Thanks for sharing this information with our Phaeton community. I do believe that there have been more 6 speed transmission problems than ZF and VW are proud of. Most of these have been occuring at relatively low mileage and ages. However, I have always had confidence in the ZF transmissions and believe they are essentially robust. 

I had my 6 speed transmission replaced under CPO coverage. However, I always felt that total replacement was overkill as my symptons always seemed related to harsh shifts(especially 2 to 1) and some hunting for the proper gear. If I had been paying the bill and thus making the decision of the appropriate action to take, i would have replaced the valve body(mechatronic unit) which can be done without transmission removal. 

I personally feel that we would not be talking about this issue if ZF and VW recommended changing transmission fluid at some prescribed interval (50k miles?). But I know that is something that is still subject to debate. With a "new" transmission, I have new fluid, so hopefully I won't have to worry about this for quite awhile(i drive my Phaeton about 6k miles per year). 

Jim X


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## TaiwanPhaeton (Dec 22, 2010)

Dear Sirs:
I am a forum rookie that owned a V6 3.2 2005 in Taiwan. I am a little confused about ZF transmission in my car. Is it 6HP19 or 6HP19A? Should I use transmission oil VW G55005 or G060162?
Two years ago the agent used G55005, now they suggest G060162. They say it improved the vibration between shift 1 and 2. I do'nt know which one is better!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hello, and welcome to the Phaeton forum. We have a few other members from Taiwan here, and it's great to have you here as well.

I'm not exactly sure what the specific model number of the transmission used on the V6 Phaeton is, because that car was never offered in North America. I think your Volkswagen dealer should be able to tell you this information if you provide them with the VIN.

Concerning fluid, there was a change in the specification of the fluid used in six-speed Phaeton transmissions (this was concurrent with a change in the software of the transmission, to take advantage of the newer fluid), but I believe that change took place during the production run of the MY 2004 cars. This means that your MY 2005 car "most likely" has the newer software and uses the most recent fluid specification.

If you go browsing through this whole very long (6 page) discussion about the six-speed transmission, I believe you will find additional information about when the fluid specification change took place, and at what VIN it was cut in at the factory.

Best wishes,

Michael


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> Concerning fluid, there was a change in the specification of the fluid used in six-speed Phaeton transmissions (this was concurrent with a change in the software of the transmission, to take advantage of the newer fluid), but I believe that change took place during the production run of the MY 2004 cars. This means that your MY 2005 car "most likely" has the newer software and uses the most recent fluid specification.


The fluid was changed from "yellow" to "blue" in MY2005. Cars built in fall 2004 although they are MY2005 may still have the yellow fluid (as mine, built in Oct2004, has).

My gearbox presented some (very mild) symptoms last summer (@90k miles: occasional rough shifting from 2>1, seal barking from the torque converter while shifting from 2>3>4 under heavy acceleration). These symptoms appeared out of nowhere and were getting worse during a period of just a few weeks. The from-the-factory oils were drained, filter replaced and new oil filled in. This cured the symptoms immediately. I have since then drained and refilled the gearbox two more times (and as a result, practically all of the old oil is out of the system) and the gearbox works like new.

The "old" yellow oil (G-055-005-A2) is substantially cheaper at less than 20 euros/liter versus almost 50 euros for the new spec oil (G-055-162-A2) so I felt it was not worth it to change the oil type. A gearbox with the blue oil cannot be filled with yellow. But - at least my experience is - that it may not be worth it to upgrade from yellow to the blue stuff.

Jouko


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## Curtsr (Oct 26, 2010)

The warranty letter seems to be very limited in that it addresses only the valve body. Nice place to start but it seems like there is a lot that is either nebulous or not covered.

Am I mistaken?


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

*Extend Warranty*

My 2004 V8 is not currently covered under any warranty. Does anybody know if this extension would be applicable to my car? Or is VW picking and choosing. I am getting hard shift between 1 and 2 when the trans is cold. After warm up no problem. Do get occasional hard down shift not under load. Performance has not changed since I got the car 10,000 miles ago but am getting nervous.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

I get the impression that the warranty extension that is outlined in the letter is intended to solve a specific problem, and if you have that specific problem, then perhaps (probably?) the extension applies to you.

Best suggestion I can give you is to visit your local VW dealer, take along a copy of the letter, and ask them to look up the campaign - along with your VIN - and see what the status of things are.

Michael


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

madreg98 said:


> My 2004 V8 is not currently covered under any warranty. Does anybody know if this extension would be applicable to my car? Or is VW picking and choosing. I am getting hard shift between 1 and 2 when the trans is cold. After warm up no problem. Do get occasional hard down shift not under load. Performance has not changed since I got the car 10,000 miles ago but am getting nervous.


Michael is probably right about checking with your dealer and possibly soon. Note that the letter from VW states that the transmission warranty is extended to whichever is first, 7 years or 100k miles. The 7 year count starts from the insevice date of your vehicle. Thus, if the inservice date is Feb 2004 the extension is about to run out in Feb(or Jan?) 2011. So many of the 2004 models are almost out of the extension period and some may have already expired. The 2005 and later models should have some time if they have not surpassed the 100k mileage limit.

Jim X


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

Pretty clever how the sentence in the VW good will/ warranty extension letter reads, "T*O* 7 years or 100K miles" rather than '*FOR*' seven years or 100K. If read quickly it would be easy to make a calendar mistake and be left out to dry. Calling Phaeton customer care isn't what it used to be so calling them for help might prove to be fruitless for those owners that literally just past the end of the coverage extension and who most likely never got the letter. Being a forum member certainly can be very useful :thumbup::thumbup:.
I wonder if the VW Real Driver Platinum warranty would/will cover this repair/solution if an owner is experiencing a transmission problem, especially considering that VW issued a letter [to some] stating that VW knew there might be a problem and extended their coverage? My in service date is 1/1/04 so I better book an appointment and get on record with a service appointment pronto. 
Ron


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

I will be contacting my dealer on Monday. Will post their response.


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

*Customer Care*

Spoke with VW customer care today. They claim they have no information concerning a Warranty Extension for Transmission Valve Body for Phaeton. Their records say that there is some information on Bugs and Passats but absolutely nothing on Phaetons. Anybody have any further info?


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

*Customer Care ??*

Hmmm. The situation is getting interesting. I spoke with the dealer today and they acted as though they were aware of this notice and told me to bring in the car and they would handle it. Surprise, surprise! My breath is not holding but the car is at the dealer.


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

Should be interesting to see if a Phaeton is one of the "Certain 2003 - 2008 MY Automatic Transmission Vehicles". I wonder who interprets the definition of 'Certain' in the vague disclaimer that's used in the subject heading of the VW letter - the dealer or VWNA?

So far no one seems to be able to answer if VW Real Driver is a player for the repair if it's needed. Wink to Chris. As a Real Driver broker can you shed some light here?

Ron


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

I happened to be visiting my dealer yesterday to replace a torn cv boot, and brought along a copy of the letter that Michael posted for Dennis in post #202 of this thread. He said he was familiar with the letter, and said it applied to certain Passats and some other models, but didn't think it applied to any Phaetons, or at least he hadn't seen any yet. Has anyone else here received this letter for their Phaeton?

I realize this thread refers to the V8 / 6 speed ZF transmission, but the fact is that the W12 / 5 speed transmission is also a ZF product for which it was originally claimed that the transmission fluid never need be changed, and then about 3 years ago they announced that the fluid should be changed every 20,000 miles. So, I am wondering if the problem this letter is intended to address is a result of unchanged transmission fluids. And if so, then perhaps the issue could affect the 5 speed transmissions as well?


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## calmone (Feb 15, 2006)

i assume the six speed trannie is the same as on the audi A8. any comments or info on the warrenty extension for the A8 or A8 problems? i ask because i liked my phaeton so much that literally yesterday i bought an 05 A8 for my wife. (just couldn't have 2 cars exactly the same).


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

Ron,

Exactly wht the dealer told me after they got the car. Claim they spoke with VW central and there is no documented issues with the Phaeton Trannys. HMM! Also they said my fluid was low and since it was a closed system I was probably burning fluid and this was in the gear box not the valve body. Further stating that "you can't repair these items" so VW is recommending a replacement. I am not convinced. I asked them to do some research on fluid since on this forum people are talking about going from "yellow" to "blue" when you flush. Reading ZF's TE-ML 11 sheet on automatic fluids (01.10.2010 update) they are state for the 6HP19A use 060162 A1/A2/A6 ATF. This is neither part number quoted in earlier threads. Also, what is A1/A2/A6? I have the dealer researching this part number to see if it is the correct one as far as VW central is concerned. Maybe this is the "blue" fluid referenced in earlier threads. In Michael's 2009 thread he showed a picture of two containers - one red and one gold. No mention of blue at that time. I'm getting a headache, just want to get the correct fluid in car. Stay tuned!

Dennis


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

madreg98 said:


> Claim they spoke with VW central and there is no documented issues with the Phaeton Trannys.




It would help if the type of vehicle (at the top of the letter) and the campaign # (bottom of letter) weren't blacked out. As it is that paperwork does no good.


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## unlimitedpaydays (May 24, 2008)

*6 speed auto trans warranty extension letter posted by Dennis*



PowerDubs said:


> It would help if the type of vehicle (at the top of the letter) and the campaign # (bottom of letter) weren't blacked out. As it is that paperwork does no good.


 The letter I got from VOA P.O. box 217022 Auburn Hills Mi states : Subject Warranty Extension- Transmission Valve Body Certain 2003-2008 MY Vokswagen Automatic Transmission Vehicles. Dear Volkswagen Owner of WWVWDS71K37W211916 Campaign Code US ----- insert here my Vin # which I just gave. I would say from this information that VW stated clearly in my letter that the type of vehicle is a Phaeton, a 2004 , mine. The only other information I can see on this letter is this code that appears above my mailing address. GAVBUSA-00138408. I hope this clears up some confusion by some on this forum that maybe thought I wasn't try to be helpful. The truth is I posted my original reply about this matter, and Paneuropean -Michael thought this would be helpful to the group at large. At Michael's insistence, he asked me to blot out my personal information, Dennis


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

My comment wasn't intended to imply that you were not trying to be helpful. No attack was intended. Help and forum participation is always a good thing. :thumbup: :beer:

If we had a copy of the letter showing the VIN, that would indeed proof that VW referenced an issue with the Phaeton specifically. As of now, the dealer is claiming no issues related to the Phaeton. (pretty standard behavior with any car dealer regardless of brand to avoid paying out repairs)

If you could email me an unblocked copy of your letter to [email protected], Dennis and I would appreciate it as his Phaeton is currently at the dealer to try to get his sporadic lower gear clunk resolved.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

_"...they said my fluid was low and since it was a closed system I was probably burning fluid and this was in the gear box not the valve body..."_


I know very little about how an automatic transmission works, so I was wondering if one of our more knowledgeable forum members could comment on this: Is it correct that a valve body problem would be unrelated to the cleanliness and/or quantity and/or type of transmission fluid?  Thanks.

Ron M.


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

Took my '04 V8 to VW in Old Saybrook, CT (new dealer for me as we just moved to the area). Very impressed, the service manager bent over backwards to accommodate me. His take on the letter which I brought with me and after considerable computer time with VW is that the campaign relates to early DSG transmissions. He found no mention of the V8 Phaeton trans. The car goes in Wednesday for routine service at which time the Phaeton tech will check for leaks and drive the car after it's reached normal operational temperature. If he determines (he most likely will) that my 'loosey goosey' one two shift is something wrong inside the sealed transmission or a fluid issue a call to Real Driver will be his step #2. We'll see opcorn:.
Ron


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## calmone (Feb 15, 2006)

i am not expert enough to know whether phaetons have "DSG" trannies or not, or what years having these may be effected. i have read a little on the net about the DSG problems, but they appear to have been, in vw's case, with 08-09 models. so, the recent letter may be the result of a problem different from the other DSG issues or an extention of those problems to other model years. the problems appear to be related to an unwanted shift to neutral while driving or general loss of power. see: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/28/vw-has-more-problems-with-its-dsg-transmission/


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## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

We have an '09 Jetta TDI that had the DSG issue. I don't think any Phaetons had the DSG.
VW repaired the issue which was a faulty temperature sensor and updated the software so the transmission would not shift to neutral if it sensed an overheat.
My wife had it happen in the left most lane (6th) of the Beltway, she got good at popping the car in neutral, shutting the car off and restarting it quickly without missing a beat. Doing so would reboot the car and the transmission would go back to normal.
We got it fixed quickly after a few of those episodes!


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## WoodlandHills (Jan 1, 2006)

*Madreg98 - Any update? Different story at my dealer but still $$*

My '05 V8 is in for it's 90k service and I was advised codes show transmission issues but valve body is OK. Recommended $700+ fluid replacement as "maintenance". I have a year left on my Platinum warranty and an in service date of 12/30/05. Spoke to VOA Toureg/Phaeton Cust Care who make clear they have nothing to do with the VW labeled Fidelity policy and not to get my hopes up. They provided an end of tomorrow c/b commitment. In the past they were interested if I was the original owner and today they asked if I had owned other VW's, past and present. 1st car was a '79 Scirocco and had a recent Jetta and GTI in family. We'll see.


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## WoodlandHills (Jan 1, 2006)

*It's my dime*

VW and Fidelity both advise I am on my own for the transmission fluid replacement.
Better luck to others of you.


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

If your transmission issues worsen and a transmission replacement is in your future will your Platinum coverage replace it or will you be blown off with them saying, "your transmission is old and you wore it out - have a nice day"? I too wonder what the Audi 4.2 camp is finding or experiencing as mentioned in an earlier post?
While we're at it - how complicated can a fluid change or top off be with this non user serviceable transmission for a reputable transmission service shop with a foreign car background to do? I've got a lift so if any or all transmission coverage is denied I might just take a wrench to this puppy myself. I'd just as soon not but I would have nothing to loose monetarily based on price quotes and covered repair denials I've been seeing here. 

Ron


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## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

Rowayton said:


> If your transmission issues worsen and a transmission replacement is in your future will your Platinum coverage replace it or will you be blown off with them saying, "your transmission is old and you wore it out - have a nice day"? I wonder what the Audi 4.2 camp is finding or experiencing?
> 
> Ron


That was my concern and after getting turned down on a few minor items I decided not to renew my warranty. It seems like more and more the wear and tear excuse or some other excuse comes up!


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## WoodlandHills (Jan 1, 2006)

*Tranmission failed after new fluid x2 and factory flashing*

Service writer expects Fidelity to replace and is optimistic previous "maintenance" fluid change will be covered, too. We'll see.


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> While we're at it - how complicated can a fluid change or top off be with this non user serviceable transmission for a reputable transmission service shop with a foreign car background to do?


This is definitely a DIY project even for a skilled home mechanic - not to mention a professional workshop. Michael has documented the whole process in this thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2967745 (it is about the 5-speed tranny but in this respect they are pretty identical. But do ignore the parts # references!)

All you need is access to car lift and a simple oil filler canister + piece of hose. You probably should replace the oil filter too: for that you will need the filter plus the oil pan gasket and suitable torx head for removing the oil pan bolts.

I have had my transmission (in a V6 TDI - but it's the same box we're discussing here) flushed twice at an independent transmission shop. They used an air-pressure powered, specialized oil filler which made the process very simple - you just insert a j-shaped nozzle to the transmission fill plug and pump in as much oil as it holds before it starts splilling out. This is done (as is explained in the aforementioned thread in great detail) with the car on the lift, with the engine running and an other person going through the gears at the same time.

This is what the transmission workshop I have used had to say: screw the detailed instructions on the overly scientific transmission temperature requirement. Once you remove the tranny drain plug you will get out as much oil as there is to come. If you do it the "proper way" with tranny oil at 35.00 degrees Celsius, you could perhaps get out a few more deciliters oil than from a colder or warmer tranny. But, as you will never get out all the oil at once anyway, the drain&refill should be repeated a few times in any case. So just get out the old oil - measure how much you got - and make sure you fill in as much new oil as you can - the excess will come out. Make sure you get in at least as much oil as you got out. It is not possible to overfill as the filler plug will let the excess out. There was no problem whatsoever in getting in as much new oil into my tranny as came out in the first place.

I do now wholly agree about the instructions being just the "overly scientific crap manufacturers tend to print on their manuals". yet I am the guy who always laughs at - and ignores - the kind instructions telling to disconnect both battery terminals before changing the wiper blades - this is standard in most factory workshop manuals 

I have no idea what my transmission oil temp was at the time of change. I suspect it was pretty much more than 35 deg. C anyway. At least no cooler than that. Car had been standing perhaps half an our after the drive. 

I did not feel like questioning this older guy who had been working with (especially ZF) transmissions for half of his life. And, fortunately, right after the first flush (about 4 liters out of 9 renewed) all the ill symptoms were gone. After two more flushes (again, about 4 liters drained and refilled) it's still great. 

The costs? New oil is pretty expensive - even the older golden colored oil costs nearly 20 euros a liter (25 bucks a quart). If you have a 2005+ with the newer oil type, the oil change WILL be expensive no matter who does to job!

Jouko


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## WoodlandHills (Jan 1, 2006)

*Fidelity will cover failed transmissin, not fluids, so back to VWOA*

I'll keep updating.


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## dish_dr (Jun 2, 2006)

*Copy of Letter*

Can I get you to email me a copy of the letter (not blacked out). I too have had transmission problems in my 04 V8 Phaeton. I was told I needed a complete transmission repair to solve very similar problems. This may help me re-state my case to Phaeton Customer Care.

Thanks,
Robert


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

I bumped into the shop foreman at my VW dealer last week. Really nice guy who seems to know his stuff, and he's always been very accommodating and friendly. I mentioned the letter and he said the valve body issues pertain to a completely different transmission (one actually made in Japan!?), and not the ones found in the Phaeton. He guessed the letter must have been sent regarding a different VW model that the recipient owned. When I told him the letter specifically identified the Phaeton by its VIN number, he just scratched his head and said it must have been a computer error  So, the question still remains - is there really a campaign pertaining to the ZF transmission or did VW accidentally send a letter to one of our members? Has anyone else received this letter yet, or so far is it just Dennis?

Ron


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## ChrisM (Sep 13, 1999)

unlimitedpaydays said:


> ...Dear Volkswagen Owner of WWVWDS71K37W211916...


This VIN is for a 2007 Rabbit 4dr 2.5L, and it is probably safe to assume it is an automatic.

There are two transmission 'situations' with VW right now:
(1) The valve body extended warranty for the Aisin 6sp.
(2) The Mechatronics recall for the DSG.

Unfortunately, neither of these remedies are applicable to the Phaeton.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

unlimitedpaydays said:


> Hi everyone. About a week and a half ago, I received a letter from VW regarding an extension on the 6 speed ZF transmission on my 2004 Phaeton v8....


The above quote is from the original post by Dennis on the previous page that started this whole discussion about a possible warranty extension on the transmission.

It now appears that this warranty extension applies to a different group of VW transmissions - nothing at all to do with the Phaeton. I am sure that Dennis did not intentionally mislead us, it was just a matter of confusing warranty letters applicable to one VW product with another VW product.

Michael


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

*Mechatronic unit*

Just to close the loop and open another vein I bit the bullet and brought my 2004 V8 to the dealer to flush the fluid (~$750) to see if that would help the shifting issues - hard 1 to 2 when cold. Did not change the performance. Have a technical question - Worked with 1stvwparts and they said for a new valve body I need part number 09L927760G based on VIN number. I have access to a O9L927760A with software upgrade. Talked with a couple of tranny outfits and they have no clue whether I can use the "A" in place of the "G". Also discussed with ZF services in NA and he said they have no cross reference ZF part numbers with VW so really couldn't help me. Have a call in to my service rep at the dealer I use to initiate a discussion. Any suggestions? Anyone, anyone, Bueller? Does anyone have any connections with VW germany that would have the experience and access to determine if this is possible?

Dennis


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

madreg98 said:


> Anyone, anyone, Bueller?





According to ETKA you need an L, not A or G.


It is $1167.25 from Parts.com


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

BTW, in looking at the Bentley, swapping this out is quite simple.. throw the car on the lift, take off a cross member that goes under the trans. Drop the trans cover, remove the filter, take off the bolts that hold the unit to the trans, unplug the unit.. plug in new unit and bolt/fill everything back up.

Nothing we can't do on a Saturday with a pizza and beer. :thumbup::beer:


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## WoodlandHills (Jan 1, 2006)

*New transmission installed, car purring, and VWOA agreed to pay for "diagnostic" flush*

So after the "maintenance" flush that VW insisted was my responsibilty determined that the transmission had failed, Fidelity covered the replacement but refused the fluid. Dealer had no success with VWOA. I called back Phaeton Customer Care insisting that $1000 dollars for fluid and labor to diagnose a failure in a sytem that was not supposed to require maintenance seemed unreasonable and was told the maintenance decision was final. I persisted that I wanted to talk to a superviser despite being told there would be no change in VW's position. Rep then got back on the line and said to send in my reciept for reimbursment.

A lot of hoops buts a very fair outcome.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

WoodlandHills said:


> So after the "maintenance" flush that VW insisted was my responsibilty determined that the transmission had failed, Fidelity covered the replacement but refused the fluid. Dealer had no success with VWOA. I called back Phaeton Customer Care insisting that $1000 dollars for fluid and labor to diagnose a failure in a sytem that was not supposed to require maintenance seemed unreasonable and was told the maintenance decision was final. I persisted that I wanted to talk to a superviser despite being told there would be no change in VW's position. Rep then got back on the line and said to send in my reciept for reimbursment.
> 
> A lot of hoops buts a very fair outcome.


This sounds exactly like my experience. VW eventually also came through as in your case but it took some persistence on my part. As soon as I purchased my car with 57k miles on it i was trying to convince my VW dealership to drain, new filter, and refill my transmission at my expense and kept getting that this is not a maintenance item and was not recommended. So when my transmission began "behaving badly" i was not happy when i was told it needed a transmission fluid change at my expense. Their denial was based on we don't cover fluids. My position was that they were responsible for repairs to my car and this was a repair and not a maintenance task. They finally covered it based on the fact that it required the new type fluid and not merely the original stuff. Well, that didn't work and they finally replaced the transmission. 

All's well that ends well. 

Jim X


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

*Mechatronic unit vs VIN number*

Looking at Josh's post I need to understand the meaning of the "F" numbers that differentiate the "A", "G" and "L" units. IF they are VIN number breakdowns they are greek to me since after the "D" my number is "9". Spoke with VW parts and they said you ignore the "9" blah, blah, blah.:banghead: Can anyone help me with deciphering the numbers as they are stated on the ETKA picture in this thread? I am still trying to get a "A" to work in place of the VW stated "G".

Dennis


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## ChrisM (Sep 13, 1999)

I can translate..

Here's a (fake) Phaeton VIN, for example:

WVWAF93D358002686

In the parts catalog they are looking at:

------3D-5-002686

'3D' is the body type, '5' is the model year, and '002686' is the sequence number.

so, in the example above...

F >> 3D-4-006050
means up to and including this VIN (up through mid '04)

F 3D-4-006051 >> 3D-5-010000
means from this VIN to that VIN (from mid '04 through '05), and 

F 3D-6-000001 >>
means from this VIN on ('06 on)

Looking at the fake VIN above, you'd select the 'G' mechatronics unit for that car.

I should ad that the asterisk (*) indicates that this is an approximate number, and if your VIN is close, you should inspect the original part in the car to confirm the correct replacement part number.


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

*VIN decode*

Thanks Chris.


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## unlimitedpaydays (May 24, 2008)

*regarding vw warranty letter for 6speed transmission for Phaeton*



PanEuropean said:


> The above quote is from the original post by Dennis on the previous page that started this whole discussion about a possible warranty extension on the transmission.
> 
> It now appears that this warranty extension applies to a different group of VW transmissions - nothing at all to do with the Phaeton. I am sure that Dennis did not intentionally mislead us, it was just a matter of confusing warranty letters applicable to one VW product with another VW product.
> 
> Michael


To everyone regarding the letter I rec'd about extending the warranty on the valve body portion of the 6 speed trans on my 2004 Phaeton, I just realized yesterday that the letter I got is not for my car ,but for my son's 2007 vw Rabbit 4dr 2.5 engine.I failed to do my research here, I got the letter because I am the co-signer on my son's car. Of course looking at the VIN # on said letter it is not a Phaeton #. I am so sorry! to everyone, I did not intend to lead anyone astray, humbly ,Dennis


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Dennis,

I am glad you have unlimited paydays since you are cosigning for your son.

No worries mate.

Steve


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## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

unlimitedpaydays said:


> To everyone regarding the letter I rec'd about extending the warranty on the valve body portion of the 6 speed trans on my 2004 Phaeton, I just realized yesterday that the letter I got is not for my car ,but for my son's 2007 vw Rabbit 4dr 2.5 engine.I failed to do my research here, I got the letter because I am the co-signer on my son's car. Of course looking at the VIN # on said letter it is not a Phaeton #. I am so sorry! to everyone, I did not intend to lead anyone astray, humbly ,Dennis


My Jetta has the same 100K deal on the DSG.


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## phaetonnwdc (May 28, 2008)

*Transmission noise*

I have an '04 V8 Phaeton and when the transmission shifts from 3rd to 4th it makes a brief noise that I can only describe as a burp of sorts. The harder I accelerate, the louder the noise. It sounds like it's coming from the back of the car. It started a few months ago and it was very faint in the beginning. Now, it's gradually getting louder as time goes on. Has anyone come across this already and know what the fix is going to entail?


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## phaetonnwdc (May 28, 2008)

*seal bark*

with the "seal bark" occurring between 3rd and 4th gears, is there a consensus on whether or not the problem is solved simply by flushing and replacing the ATF?


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> with the "seal bark" occurring between 3rd and 4th gears, is there a consensus on whether or not the problem is solved simply by flushing and replacing the ATF?


 Dunno if there is a concensus but my car started exhibiting the same symptoms about a year ago. Changing the transmission oil (twice or was it three times...) and filters (just once) cured it completely. We used original (yellow) oil and did not change to the newer type. Nor did we reflash the ECM. Total cost was about three hundred including parts and labour. 

Jouko


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## phaetonnwdc (May 28, 2008)

Thanks Jouko. Your situation gives me hope. My seal bark started several hundred miles ago and was barely perceptible initially but has been gradually gotten louder. I will have to take it to the dealer and have them change the fluid. Seems the car has hit a point where fluids are starting to break down. I've got close to 80,000 miles on her and in February the power steering started to make noise but has been fine since replacing the fluid.


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> Seems the car has hit a point where fluids are starting to break down. I've got close to 80,000 miles on her


 Yup, my car had 95k miles when I first heard the seal bark. It got quite a lot worse during a course of a few months. Only to disappear completely right after the first oil change (in which not even half of the total oil volume was renewed!). _"Sealed for life - no oil change necessary"_ 

Jouko


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## phaetonnwdc (May 28, 2008)

*seal bark*

I can report back that I had the trans fluid replaced Friday and the seal bark between 3rd and 4th is no more.


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## phaetonnwdc (May 28, 2008)

*seal bark*

Replaced trans fluid Friday and the noise is gone.


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## payday (May 13, 2010)

PhaetonNWDC,

Where did you get the fluid replaced at and how much did they charge you.
Also do you know what color fluid they used.
Thanks.


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## coolsig (Jan 4, 2011)

*transmission fluid for a 2005 phaeton v8*

What kind of transmission fluid do I use ? I just called a few dealerships in my area and the quoted me $45-$49/liter of transmission fluid. Is that how expensive the fluid is ? I looked up napa auto website and they have pentosin ATF1 for $15.74/Liter. Here is a snippet of info from the website :

Features and Benefits: Formulated from synthetic base oils and additive components. Surpasses all DEXRON III quality level requirements providing superior ATF fluid performance. Meets ZF TE 11 & 14 specification standards. 

Is this the right fluid to use ? 

Thanks in advance.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Attached are two PDFs: 

One is a Tech Tip from VW reminding technicians that there were (as of the date of publication of this tech tip, in 2007) five different types of fluids used in VW transmissions, and they are not interchangeable.

The other is a specification from ZF (the manufacturer of the transmissions) that lists the approved fluids. The V8 Phaeton uses the 6 speed "6HP19" transmission.

Michael


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## boreal (Aug 18, 2005)

I don"t know if I apply to this thread but my car seems to shake/shudder on the highway.. I brought it to my dealer and they changed the center drive shaft but the shaking is still there. The wheels are straight and well balanced. The transmission shifts smoothly with no clunks. 
The mileage is about 120,000km"s. Could an ATF flush/change be the cure??? 
Thanks, 
Bill


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## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

I think I have the same problem since they replaced my Tranny end of last year.. I had two bad tires that I replaced that I thought might caused the problem.. 

I called my VW dealership to make an appointment...


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## coolsig (Jan 4, 2011)

Any tips on changing the transmission fluid? On my minivan I usually tap into the lines going to the transmission cooler and then with the engine running I drain the fluid coming out of the transmission cooler and pump new fluid through the hose going to the transmission till I see new fluid come out of the transmission cooler. That way I know I have flushed the entire system instead of just dropping the pan and replacing the fluid in the pan. If someone can tell me which hoses are the in and out hoses on the transmission cooler that would be very helpful. Also does ZF Lifeguard8 supersede ZF Lifeguard6. Can I use ZF Lifeguard 8 in 2005 v8 transmission? 

Thanks in advance.


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> Any tips on changing the transmission fluid? On my minivan I usually tap into the lines going to the transmission cooler and then with the engine running I drain the fluid coming out of the transmission cooler and pump new fluid through the hose going to the transmission


 This is a common procedure I know many professionals prefer. Yet it is not the VW recommended one. In Germany there is a guy named Tim Eckart, who has worked a lot on this kind of flushing system and has made adapters for various transmission types, including the ZF used in Phaeton. I am unsure if there are any Phaetonists here who have had their tranny flushed with the "Eckart method", but I have read quite a few positive comments from the German Phaeton forum. 

See http://www.automatikoelwechselsystem.de/preise.html for info on Eckart's system. 

You could of course get the Eckart flush kit or fabricate one yourself. The other alternative - which most of us have done - is to drain the tranny via the drain plug (the oil pan needs to come of too, to change the filter of course). This process needs to be repeated two-three times to get a substantial amount of "fresh" oil in there. 



> Also does ZF Lifeguard8 supersede ZF Lifeguard6. Can I use ZF Lifeguard 8 in 2005 v8 transmission?


 Be careful! As discussed in this thread, the VW oil types are not directly interchangeable and the same applies to ZF fluids. Lifeguard 6 is same stuff with VW G-055-005-A2, meaning the "old yellow stuff". Upgrading it to newer "blueish" Lifeguard 8 / VW G-055-162-A2 will require a complete flush plus a reflash of the transmission ECU. 

By the way, there is a neat cross-reference chart for ZF vs. VW at http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=product&id=184&parent=0 

I personally would not hesitate using ZF fluids instead of VW's OEM oils if I'd get to buy the ZF for less. So far, this has not been the case around here. 

Jouko


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## asummers (Apr 19, 2009)

*Necessity of reflash?*

I just had my transmission fluid changed today by my trusty indy mechanic. They used G060 162 A2 (green) fluid which they said all their references (including the VW dealer) listed as appropriate for the 6 speed transmission, and my specific VIN entered into VW's system. I believe the car originally came with G055 005 A2 (gold) fluid. What few references I can find suggest this is the newer fluid for this transmission but a software upgrade is needed (all references I found related to using this in an Audi A6). The car drives beautifully now. Do I really need a reflash? I think I would have to go to the dealer for this.

Thanks for any info

Andy


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## coolsig (Jan 4, 2011)

do you happen to know how did he change the entire fluid ?


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## rushcoil (Apr 17, 2011)

My wife drove my car the other day and, other than also backing it into a green wall, said, "It doesn't accelerate very fast."

I was thinking, huh? I can outrun a hell of a lot of cars in that bajillion pound car...

Then I realized, once in a while (very rarely) there is a slight pause between 1 and 2....

I guess I am on the road to sadness, but I would say in, what, 6 months of ownership it has happened less than 10 times... no noises or anything... just that slight delay... reminds me of when I had a BMW 318 in the mid-90s... 

The rest of the time it's smooth sailing and an engine growl that, when I pound the throttle, wakes up passengers.


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

*Internal Transmission Leak - 4.2L 6 speed*

2004 Phaeton 4.2L V8, 6 Speed Transmission, 54k Miles

Symptoms:
Gear oil leaking onto exhaust pipe and burning causing fumes to emanate from under car. No deterioration of performance is exhibited.

Diagnosis:
Leak source is from the breather port on top of the final drive (Torsen differential housing just aft of the transmission. It appears that the only way it could leak at that location is if the Torsen differential is overfilled which is not possible because the transmission/differential has never been serviced. The conclusion is that the transmission is actually leaking internally into the differential housing thus producing an overfill condition and causing it to expel at the breather port. Please see the attached photo for reference. I called ZF Industries and spoke to their technical support (Steve 847-478-6868) and he concurs that it is likely an internal leak from the transmission into the differential housing.










Repair:
Transmission is to be replaced. Normally this would require the removal of the engine and transmission as one unit but the technician was able to do it without removing the engine which is less invasive, leaving alone the AC, cooling, and power steering intact.

Repair Facility:
Capitol Volkswagen, San Jose California

Technician: Chris Gladgo, Shop Forman
Chris is very familiar with the Phaeton and I highly recommend him.

And now for the images:

On the lift;









The crate:









Supporting the engine from above:









Evidence of the leak:

















Subframe removed:

















Starter to be removed from old unit and reinstalled on the new rebuilt transmission.









Transmission is out. This is a view of the flywheel. No evidence of a main seal leak!









Transmission ready for installation:









Chris is very methodical and his "attention to detail is staggering".  Where did that phrase come from? This image shows how organized he is:









Location of starter in new transmission:









Replacement transmission is in with the subframe installed:









Drive shaft installed:









Back together:









Credit for some of the photos go to Chris. He was gracious enough to take images of the process while he worked. He also insisted on being part of the active delivery when I went to pick up my car. When I arrived, he had the car on the rack and pointed out what was done. He also accompanied me on a test drive. Chris has two lifts at his station and on the other lift was another Phaeton with the same issue although it had roughly 100k on the clock. This fellow lives in Palm Desert, I believe, and comes up to San Jose so that Chris can service his car. I can see why. I've done my homework interviewing Phaeton technicians and I am very comfortable with Chris. Even though there are some technicians closer to where I live, I chose to drive 65 miles to his facility. The Service Advisor, Jason E., is also a pleasure to deal with. Upon our test drive, you would never know that the transmission was replaced. In fact, the transmission shifts ever so slightly smoother than the old one even though the old one never had any problems and was the smoothest in my fleet. It drives perfect thanks to Chris.


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi,

nice set of pictures! I only hope that I can get some as good when I visit ZF in Dortmund with my car later this month. Good to see another Phaeton being lovingly cared for.

Stu


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

Thanks for sharing the story and the images! There's also a very good (and potentially cost-saving) lesson to learn from it: The factory manual instructs that the replacement of the 6-speed transmission (applies to all V6 and V8 Phaetons) begins with the removal of both the engine and the transmission from the car. So they "should" come out together and only then be separated from each other. As you said, that would add substantially to the complexity and cost of the operation.

Now, as it seems the transmission can be exchanged with the engine in place, that makes it quite a lot more sensible to consider repairing the existing unit or exchanging it for a used one. If the complete removal and reinstallation of the engine would be required (as per manual), at least I would think twice before "experimenting" with anything else than putting in a factory new or rebuilt unit. The lower cost of labour involved in Chris' work method makes me reconsider...

This falls into the same category with the timing chain tensioners in a V6 TDI: "engine needs to come out first", but yet a competent mechanic can do the job with the engine in place in an hour.

Jouko


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

> Repair:
> Transmission is to be replaced. Normally this would require the removal of the engine and transmission as one unit but the technician was able to do it without removing the engine which is less invasive, leaving alone the AC, cooling, and power steering intact.


Wow - that's amazing. It looks like the engine was merely supported and not moved at all. I think someone else has posted that the engine also need not be removed for the starter replacement. That's two repairs that have traditionally involved the removal of the engine and some creative techs have found ways to do it without removing the engine.

My hats off to your tech.

Jim X


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## asummers (Apr 19, 2009)

Am I correct in thinking that this job was done using a standard lift, with an engine support? It doesn't require the special VW lift? Do you know how many hours it took? Gives me hope that maybe it would be cost effective to keep my car going, even after transmission failure.

Thanks

Andy


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

Andy,

I do not think he used the table lift. He has a picture of the new transmission on a standard transmission jack. He said without taking the engine out, he saved about 8 hours.

Damon


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## kend414 (Feb 10, 2009)

Jxander said:


> Wow - that's amazing. It looks like the engine was merely supported and not moved at all. I think someone else has posted that the engine also need not be removed for the starter replacement. That's two repairs that have traditionally involved the removal of the engine and some creative techs have found ways to do it without removing the engine.
> 
> My hats off to your tech.
> 
> Jim X


Yes, I had posted my technician was able to replace the starter without removing the engine . He said it was buried and had to remove a lot from above and lower the subframe and use supports on the drive line. He thought it saved many hours. Everything working as it should. I love utilizing competent technician. I have to drive an hour to get to him but it's worth it.


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## EricFromPA (Jan 8, 2010)

*NA 4.2 liter V8 Phaeton - 6HP19A or 6HP26A transmission?*

Hi,

Do the NA 4.2 liter V8 Phaetons have the ZF 6HP19A or the ZF 6HP26A transmission? I've seen some information indicating it's the 6HP19A, but I've seen other information that suggests it's the 6HP26A. Which is it?

Eric


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## tomasty (May 24, 2011)

EricFromPA said:


> Hi,
> 
> Do the NA 4.2 liter V8 Phaetons have the ZF 6HP19A or the ZF 6HP26A transmission? I've seen some information indicating it's the 6HP19A, but I've seen other information that suggests it's the 6HP26A. Which is it?
> 
> Eric


It is a 6HP-19A, I have confirmed this with ZF.

Tomas


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

aTOMic said:


> Hi,
> I've been searching but couldn't find the answer; is there a date code or S/N at which the dreaded internal leak was corrected? I was saved from buying a nice Phaeton with oily exhaust pipes by this phorum (sorry) and I thank everyone, especially Michael the Ubermoderator, for this most excellent of forums! No misspellings, apostrophes only where they belong, real names... I've found a home! Now if I could find a Phaeton!
> I'm also looking at an A8L (2004) which I deduce has the same ZF unit, so in case there is additional info please include it here.
> (Link to ZF6HP26A leak on exhaust thread)
> ...


Tom,
I'm really not sure if there were many of these issues because I extensively searched the net and only found one documented case on an Audi A4. The ZF engineer at the time stated that production is so tight that if there was a premature failiure of the seal on my transmission, there would be more faliures from the same batch. I don not think ZF or VW tracked the failiures with production dates of serial numbers. I was surprised he said that with such confidence. I don't think my technician has ever seen this particular case; I was the first. It is interesting that after mine was repaired, they got another 2004 in the shop with the same problem but he had more than twice my milaege. Mine failed at under 50K.

Just a note, leaks in that area can also come from an output shaft seal which is a common problem and an easy fix.

Damon


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## aTOMic (Mar 12, 1999)

Thank you Damon, this is some good news. 

-Tom


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

*Transmission repair*

Now it's our turn to have V8 6-speed transmission problems fixed, especially since our Fidelity Platinum extended warranty on the Phaeton expires this month. Car is a 2004 Phaeton with only 64000 miles.

Original Symptoms: Hard downshift (feel a slight "jolt") every time car comes to a stop, likely the 2 > 1 gear downshift. Also (rarely occurs) the the "seal bark" sound when accelerating at highway speeds. Also using a VAG-COM scan, I found a fault in the transmission controller Address 02: "Shift monitoring, 1 - 2 shift intermittent"

Repair 1: Dealer consulted with the VW "tech-line," who recommended the transmission fluid be replaced/flushed FOUR TIMES with a different fluid, combined with re-flash of electronic controllers to accommodate the newer blue (rather than original yellow) fluid. Total cost was a staggering $2200. Dealer called Fidelity who refused to pay since they claimed this was just "maintenance." 

Result of Repair 1: After fluid replacement, downshifts when coming to a stop are now nice and smooth. But a new more serious problem emerged: when accelerating onto a highway around 40 mph the transmission will slip and then WHAM -- jerk into 4th gear. This kick from behind is not subtle.

Repair 2: Dealer consulted with VW tech-line again, and again called Fidelity warranty company. Fidelity actually sent a rep to the dealership to investigate the repair. While replacement of the transmission valve body might fix the problem, Fidelity's experience with other Phaetons was that it often doesn't. So Fidelity went ahead and authorized total replacement of the transmission.

Dealer ordered a new 6-speed Phaeton transmission, which will take 12 days or so to be shipped from Germany (there are none in the US).

It appears that the warranty company will pay for the new transmission, but not for the 1st repair transmission fluid/re-flash procedure that (if it had worked) might have saved Fidelity the much higher cost of a new transmission. Stay tuned for further developments...

- Dave


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

They flushed it FOUR times??? WTF! I feel somewhat vindicated now after the huge argument I had with the dealer recently. The tech insisted vociferously that there was no need to flush more than once, said he'd never heard of multiple flushing, and claimed there was nobody he could call at VW to get further information.

Have you called the customer care line? I would have thought you'd have a good case for at least a partial reimbursement for three of the flushes.


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

invisiblewave said:


> Have you called the customer care line? I would have thought you'd have a good case for at least a partial reimbursement for three of the flushes.


Is there still a Phaeton Customer Care line in 2012? I am the original owner of our 2004 Phaeton, but I figured VW in the US would have shut down the PCC years ago.

If I eventually strike out trying to get Fidelity to pay for the $2200 transmission fluid replacements under their Platinum warranty, I may try calling PCC. However I'm going to wait another week or so until the new transmission arrives and is replaced and then go back to Fidelity for reimbursement of all the transmission repair costs.

And yes, I thought replacing the fluid 4 TIMES was excessive, but that was the advice given to our dealership by VW's Tech-line. :screwy:

- Dave


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yes, I spoke to them recently, although it now includes the Touareg and the service doesn't seem to be quite what it was before.


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

The new transmission arrived from Germany and is now being installed in our Phaeton. Got fingers crossed that everything will work correctly after the tech puts the car back together.

To swap transmissions the tech had to remove the front subframe, front half-shafts, front sway bar, and much of the exhaust system. He also had to disconnect the engine mounts to temporarily lower the engine slightly.

Here's a photo of the old transmission -- notice where the front half-shaft attaches for AWD.
- Dave


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## chillson (Sep 6, 2010)

*Transmission Reset*

Hello all! This question concerns the 6-speed transmission in NAR V8s. It is my understanding that the transmission learns the driving style/tendencies of the person driving the car and then adapts the gear shifting patterns to that driver. I am the second owner of a Phaeton with 65K miles. My question is this: is there a way to reset the "memory" so that the transmission starts learning my driving style/tendencies and forgets the style of the previous owner? I have two Phaetons and they seem to have different shift patterns. Neither transmission is problematic, I just prefer the one that I have driven 50K miles compared to the one that I have only been driving a few thousand miles. Thanks in advance for any feedback...Jay


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Open the transmission controller, enter a value of 0 (zero) in adaptation field 00, test that value then save it.
> 
> The procedure ... causes the transmission to flush out all the 'learned' behaviour concerning driver preferences and patterns, and start learning again from scratch.
> 
> Michael


The above is quoted elsewhere in the forum.

Good luck,
Chris


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## chillson (Sep 6, 2010)

Awesome! Thanks Chris. That is exactly what I was looking for...Jay


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

There are quite a few comments somewhere in the forum on this particular shift, I made one myself a few days ago. Mine often feels less than silky between 1st & 2nd, and numerous other people have said the same. I doubt you'll see anything on the scan.

The official VW position on the ATF is to check it at 100k and change it if it's found to be dirty (how could it not be???), which is what I'm planning to do at the next service.


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## pgoober (Jan 4, 2009)

*ATF and _perhaps_ left side battery*

Dear Dead Horse,

Given my experience (n=1) and my read of the forum, I would change the ATF and consider replacing the left-side (comfort) battery. When you replace the battery (arguably best done at a dealer) everything resets. You then can get to know the car confident that there are no electrical gremlins due to low battery power. 

I found that after the fluid change things were better but that following the battery replacement (I had periodic system shutdowns and it was rather old but never registered anything on the gauge on the dash suggesting a problem) the car shifts more predictably and and slightly higher revs. If I punch it, I get a problem in 1 - 2 but in stop and go it shifts just fine. My assumption is that my rough shift under maximum acceleration is the result of something sticking or restriction in the "mechatronic" valves and solenoid section of the transmission, but I am talking out my rear. When I punch it there is a delay between gears and a slamming/pop into gear followed by neck snapping acceleration when it clicks in....so I don't drive like that.

-BD


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## Eis (Oct 2, 2012)

After reading this thread and other threads on cars with ZF transmissions, I am having serious doubt to purchasing a Phaeton even with less than 60K-miles.

I think manufacturers are screwing up a lot of people by specifying "lifetime" fluids. It's a pity because most parts of the car can last for 20+years, but it sounds like the "glass" transmission can last 80K.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I don't think it's an "achilles heel", at least in terms of reliability, since there are very few reported transmission failures. Of course, it sounds bad when half a dozen people post about a failed transmission, but the vast majority are running just fine. If there's an achilles heel, it's in the maintenance advice and service support from VW. If they had a dozen ZF transmission service centres across the US like the one in Germany, most of the problems would be solved.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Eis said:


> After reading this thread and other threads on cars with ZF transmissions, I am having serious doubt to purchasing a Phaeton even with less than 60K-miles.
> 
> I think manufacturers are screwing up a lot of people by specifying "lifetime" fluids. It's a pity because most parts of the car can last for 20+years, but it sounds like the "glass" transmission can last 80K.


Any transmission can last 80k. The last two cars I owned in the US were GM, and neither transmission lasted past 90k. For the current price of a V8, even if you had to stick in a recon transmission a couple of years down the road, you're still getting a heck of a lot of car for your money.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> After reading this thread and other threads on cars with ZF transmissions, I am having serious doubt to purchasing a Phaeton even with less than 60K-miles.
> 
> I think manufacturers are screwing up a lot of people by specifying "lifetime" fluids. It's a pity because most parts of the car can last for 20+years, but it sounds like the "glass" transmission can last 80K.


Hi Eis (sorry, I don't know your name),

I agree about the manufacturer's 'lifetime' fluids. Of course, ZF have a different story to tell and recommend service at 80k miles or less to set the transmission up for its next 80k. I assume that this is because the non-maintenance parts in the Phaeton are (in general) designed to last 150,000 miles without replacement. This is half as long again as the 'lifetime' of an economy runabout.

If the economy car's transmission breaks at 100k then it's design job is done. On the other hand, we expect the Phaeton to go on for hundreds of thousands of miles if required, because it is a quality, strong design.

I do not believe that the ZF transmissions are more prone to failure than the others. All pieces of technology have a certain defect rate, perhaps a fraction of a percent of all production units. This is equally true for washing machines, cars and Space Shuttles. There will always be failures in some samples, which get reported. If it is not broken then there will be few comments reporting the fact.

The Phaeton transmissions are the same designs as those fitted in, for example, BMW and Rolls Royce. It is a strong design, well known, and almost all of them should last hundreds of thousands of miles without breakdown, given decent servicing.

The Phaeton usually looks and drives much the same at 120,000 miles as it does at 20,000 miles. There is no 60k 'barrier' to cross, as you used to find on mid-range mass-market vehicles. However, maintenance costs are proportional to original price, not what you pay for the car. A fully-equipped new Phaeton can currently list at over €120,000 ($150,000) so you could expect costs to be proportionate. It is hand-assembled, it is not a mass-market car.

I hope that helps you to make up your mind. I absolutely love mine and would not hold a transmission replacement at 160k against it, should that happen. I have had to replace transmissions on Chevrolet Caprice and Ford Thunderbird at 120k, so what's new?

Regards,
Chris


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Honestly, if a 4-5k trans issue scares you, this isn't the car for you.

As already said, the Phaeton is a hell of a lot of car for the money. You should just look at it as buying a 25k car~ 15-20k up front and another 5-10k in _possible_ maint costs.


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## Eis (Oct 2, 2012)

I think this is one of the best owner's forums because of the wealth of information beyond that of dealerships, but it is easy to get despondent when reading pages and pages about transmission failures.

With all due respect, I expect another 10K for self warranty.

It is just disappointing that VW built this amazing car, stopped selling it after just three years, and then let the owners figure out when to replace ATF so they can keep their beloved cars forever. I also am thinking of a 2011 S-class, but I love the Phaeton much more. I hope they are bringing this car back in 2015.

I know ranting does not help, but I just needed a little bit more encouragement haha. Thanks guys!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Before you decide on the Merc, you might want to read about Tomasty's C class flare-shifting problems: http://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w204/445277-flare-shift.html, then look up his thread on his Phaeton transmission issues (which he solved eventually with an ATF change). The ATF change on the V8 is only about $400 at a dealer, although I'm seriously thinking about having them do a double flush on mine.


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## pgoober (Jan 4, 2009)

*80k is not the limit*

If you want encouragement, it is a great car and clearly with a little TLC will outlast plenty out there.

Mine is at 112,000 with the original transmission and I bet it goes a very long way before the transmission quits. 

I have to floor it from a stop to produce a delay that I notice. take the pedal down 70% and it whizzes across the intersection and scoots your but into the seat back.

Floor it on the highway and the vehicle quietly pulls away from all neighbors and gets you into mandatory reckless driving speeds before you hear or feel anything to indicate your idiocy.

I love mine. Plan to keep it until it catches up with my diesel Merc in miles at 220k. Either that or they lock me up for speeding.


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## stefanuk (Jul 7, 2010)

Not sure if this will help or just add to the confusion around the transmission.............however, i was reading an article in car mechanics today about the various auto transmission, one of which was the ZF 6 speed fitted to Phaetons.
Apparently the ATF is good for 200,000 miles and they suggest that any jerkiness etc with gears is more likely due to the mechatronics needing replacement, as they say that if you're experiencing probs then it's unlikely a fluid change will help. 

Stefan


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> ... article in car mechanics today about the various auto transmission, one of which was the ZF 6 speed fitted to Phaetons. Apparently the ATF is good for 200,000 miles...


ZF themselves say the ATF is only good for 80k miles under heavy use (which car manufacturers define as being what many people would say is normal road use, see most engine oil change specifications).

ZF's repair and maintenance facility in Dortmund clean and service the mechatronics unit when many folks take their cars there with jerkiness or similar. Forum users have reported that an ATF flush often has the same results, presumably by cleaning the mechatronics unit as much as by restoring the friction capabilities of the ATF.

The score so far: Journalist 1, Owners 1 

Chris


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## dstalling (Feb 19, 2009)

*Transmission oil change at 95,000 miles - leak observed after changing*

After following all of the exchanges on this topic, I decided it wouldn't hurt to get the trans oil changed due to a bit of abrupt down shift roughness going into low range. The good news is that it really helped the overall transmission shifting smoothness and I am glad to have had it done. I visited my son after getting the car back and he decided to do a professional wax job on the car (buffer and multi grade polish & wax); turned out great. The next day he sent an email suggesting I check to see if I had an oil spot under the Phaeton as he had an oil spot where I was parked. Sure enough, I had about 1/4 cup of oil on the garage floor. Called my VW Service and made arrangement to get it into their hands. Problem was that in changing the trans oil, one of the oil pan connections developed a crack. They replaced the oil pan and gaskets, etc. w/o charge. Thought I'd share this and suggest that if you have the trans oil changed to be sure to check for oil leak. I don't want to think about not finding the leak until the trans failed. Things can happen but I am very happy with the overall service given by my VW dealer! 
daves


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Dave, 

You managed to get that fixed in good time! Did the garage explain in more detail what actually cracked? Needless to say, ZF define a strict method for re-tightening the ATF pan bolts to avoid cracking the pan. 

Chris


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## snapdragon (Aug 8, 2006)

I would say if you changed the fluid you are supposed to reset the adaptation with VCDS and do an adaptation drive. If it still doesn't shift perfectly, then reset the adaptation and do the drive again and see if it changes. 
I had to do 3x3 adaptation drives with resets in between before I was happy with the result, as it is virtually impossible to do in the UK due to road design from the middle-ages, traffic levels etc.. even at night people were coming up behind or pulling out in front of me. 

Adaption drive sequence for 6-speed automatic gearbox 09E/09L/0AT/0B6 
An adaption makes sense under the following circumstances: 
I Customer complains of harsh gear-shifting. 
I ATF change. 
I Repairs to clutches. 
I Replacement of mechatronics unit or gearbox. 
I After a software update. 

YZNote: 
- Resetting of the adaption values for the clutches was phased-in to the software in model year 2006. Perform a software update as necessary. 

- The number of adaptions carried out is an indicator of whether the gearbox has adapted sufficiently. If the driver's driving style is highly performance-oriented, adaption rarely takes place, as the adaption conditions are not met. An adaption helps to take account of the wear within the gear-shifting phase. For more instructions and information refer to SSP 385. 

The adaption drive is carried out in four segments, on a flat stretch of road with a good surface: 

In segment 1 the so-called quick adaption takes place. This adaption is possible above gear oil temperatures of 40°C, and adapts the fill pressure for the clutch B, C and E. 
Sequence: 
Accelerate the vehicle from a standstill at very low torque (around 100Nm) up to 4th gear in D. Then allow the vehicle to free-wheel down to 40km/h without braking, then brake slowly down to a standstill. Wait 5 seconds at standstill. The action is a maximum of repeated 3 times. 

From segment 2 of the adaption drive onwards, a pulse adaption is carried out on an unused clutch. A gear oil temperature of at least 55°C is required. The following procedure adapts clutches B and C: 
Drive a 3-4km stretch at a torque of around 100Nm in Tiptronic 5th gear (manual) in the engine speed range 1600-2800 rpm. Then accelerate the vehicle and continue driving in Tiptronic 6th gear (manual) at 1600-2800 rpm for a further 3-4km. 

In segment 3 clutches A and C are adapted according to the following procedure: 
Drive the vehicle in Tiptronic 5th gear (manual) between 1400 and 2100 rpm for one minute (pulling) and then allow the engine speed to fall to 1400 rpm (overrun). Run the entire procedure until clutches A and C have been adapted once, though no more than three times in total. 

In segment 4 clutches D and E are adapted (if they have not already been adapted in the course of the other segments) as follows: 
Keep the vehicle in Tiptronic 3rd gear (manual) at 60Nm torque in an engine speed range between 1400 and 2100 rpm for one minute, then slowly brake down to a standstill and remain stopped for 5 seconds. Run the entire procedure until clutches D and E have been adapted once, though no more than three times in total. 

End of adaption drive: 
- Run a test drive through all gears, assessing the gear-shift jerk at standstill and during driving. If no improvement has occurred, adapt specific individual clutches.


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## dstalling (Feb 19, 2009)

*Follow up to question on what happened to cause cracking/leak.*



Paximus said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> You managed to get that fixed in good time! Did the garage explain in more detail what actually cracked? Needless to say, ZF define a strict method for re-tightening the ATF pan bolts to avoid cracking the pan.
> 
> Chris


 Sorry I can't add more detail. After the fluid change, I was very pleased with the shifting profiles and did nothing special but drive it. I will be taking a 2400 mile trip later this month so I can enjoy the luxury of the Phaeton on the Interstate Highway.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:
*
See also this discussion: Phaeton 6s Transmission issue Clunky or slow engagement of 1st gear.

Michael


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## twgin (Apr 25, 2012)

I just had my recently purchased MY 2004 (96K miles) looked at by a dealer (Hayward VW in San Jose, CA, tech is Chris Gladco who is well spoken of earlier in this tread and others, and is very impressive in person).

I don't have any trans problems, but his recommendation based on this and the 96K miles and no evident previous work on the trans was to flush with the original fluid, no reflash recommended.

I guess I am looking at this from the perspective of an owner of a Phaeton well out of any warranty and looking to get another 100K out of the car. I'm not poor but buying an original Phaeton would have been well out of my price range, so while I feel fortunate to own such a car I probably wouldn"t spring for a 6K new trans ... There are probably more than a few owners in the same frame of mind, more as time goes by and the mileage on used Phaetons continues to climb.

For someone in my position, to summarize this thread...

For our V8 trans which is described as a 6HP19 model:

No trans problems - flush with original fluid G 055 005 A1/A2/A6 (old yellow stuff) and keep driving

Onset of problems - reflash ECM to 0040, reflash TCM to 1905, flush twice with G 055 162 A2 (new blue stuff), re adapt 1X or 2X or even 3X per snapdragon post #300 above.

Still problems, investigate rebuild of valve body (discussed other places in the forum)

Still problems, have to reevaluate at that time...

Specific question - the Amalie Wolfs Head Synthetic ATF fluid, significantly cheaper fluid, seems to be well thought of, I cannot find a specific reference as to equivalence to the G 055 005 A1/A2/A6 original ATF fluid in the Phaeton. More research required, but has anyone nailed down such a reference ?

Finally, trying to work through ATF numbers, what a mind numbing task... G 052 vs G 055 is not a typo !

Terry


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I think he's right. If you have no symptoms, do a flush with the original fluid (if it's available, I think the reason people have done the flash is because only the newer fluid is available). If you use the newer fluid, you might consider a double flush, do it once, drive 500 miles or so, then flush again. 

Personally, I wouldn't use any fluid other than the VW one or an OEM version of it.


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

Terry,

Can you please clarify, VW of Hayward is in Hayward, Ca not San Jose. Capitol Vw is in San Jose, Ca. Which is where Chris was a foreman there previously. Did he move dealerships?

Thanks,

Damon


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## twgin (Apr 25, 2012)

Sorry, you are correct, used to be something else, is now Capitol in San Jose, and Chris Gladco is still there, here I am a Gilroy boy and mixing up my Bay Area towns.

Taking the Phaeton in was a bit of deja vu for me as about 4 years ago we bought a used Suburban from Capitol in the exact same showroom I was waiting in...

If I did this right here's a thumbnail of some oldies but goodies in the showroom:


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## twgin (Apr 25, 2012)

Still talking about the Wolfs Head ATF fluid, I emailed the company and got the following response:

---begin---

Terry,

First let me say that is a great vehicle. A couple of years ago VW was talking about re-introducing it to the American market. Wolf’s Head Super Universal Synthetic can be used in your transmission (ZF 09L series). It is fully compatible with and exceeds specification requirements for fluid code G 055 005 Suffix A series.

Regards,
John DiSilvestri
Technical Director
Amalie Oil Company

--end---

There are those who won't use anything but VW fluid and those who will use other fluids. There is probably a little overlap between the groups; maybe this information will be useful...

Terry


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Just got my car back after having the transmission changed due to reported "slippage" between 1st & 2nd. This particular slippage seemed to trigger Fidelity to approve the change under warranty, although there wasn't enough slippage for me to notice, the tech reported it after a test drive.

After the change, there's a much more noticeable clunk when putting the car in drive, and it feels as if it comes from the rear. Once in drive, at idle there's a vibration through the steering wheel which wasn't previously present. Neither feel like big issues, just different than it was before, and the other gear changes are now silky-smooth, including downshifts when coming to a stop, which previously weren't smooth. Since the change, I haven't felt the thing I and a few others have reported where it feels as if the car isn't going to stop, just before you come to a halt.

The transmission installed is a VW remanufactured unit, apparently those are the only transmissions in the country. It only comes with a 12 month warranty (I think it'd be the same with a brand new transmission), which is a tad disappointing.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

It will be interesting to see on the next scan if the transmission controller now has different software from before.

Chris


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yes, I'll be scanning it shortly! It had a couple of things on the scan when I took it in, one of which was the rain sensor from when the windscreen was changed. The shifting, especially in lower gears, is significantly smoother. The clunk seems to be when R has been engaged and then you shift to D. There's definitely a difference in the downshifting in the lower gears, too, as you come to a stop.

Edit: Here's the scan, looks as if the transmission software level is 1003. I also notice that neither the rain sensor nor the mirror potentiometer errors were fixed by the dealer, despite me asking them to do so:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 3D - VW Phaeton D1
Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 07 08 09 11 13 15 16 17 18 19 23 27 28 29 2E
34 36 37 38 39 46 47 55 56 57 65 66 68 69 71 75 76 77

VIN: WVWAF63D348007164 Mileage: 150290km/93385miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 4D0-907-560-BGH.lbl
Part No SW: 4D0 907 560 CS HW: 8E0 907 560 
Component: 4.2L V8/5V G 0040 
Coding: 0007873
Shop #: WSC 25019 444 00532

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09L-927-760.lbl
Part No SW: 09L 927 760 C HW: GS1 9.0 4.1 
Component: AG6 09L 4,2L V8 1003 
Coding: 0001102
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 3D0-614-517.lbl
Part No: 3D0 614 517 AK
Component: ESP 5.7 allrad H35 0047 
Coding: 0008376
Shop #: WSC 25019 000 00000

1 Fault Found 
01826 - Sensor for Steering Angle (G85); Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
000 - - - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 909 135 K HW: 5WK 470 25
Component: Kessy 6400 
Coding: 0002280
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000

Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 
Component: ELV XXXX

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 06: Seat Mem. Pass Labels: 3D0-959-759.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 759 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 BF 1401 
Coding: 0000003
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 008 M
Component: ZAB COCKPIT 0188 
Coding: 0500305
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000

1 Fault Found 
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 040 K
Component: Climatronic D1 2137 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3D0-937-049.lbl
Part No: 3D0 937 049 G
Component: STG.Bordnetz 5001 
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000

1 Fault Found 
00907 - Intervention load Management 
000 - - 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 3D0-909-601.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 601 D
Component: X6 Airbag 8.4E+ H07 0924 
Coding: 0022582
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 3D0-953-549.lbl
Part No: 3D0 953 549 C
Component: Lenksäulenmodul 3301 
Coding: 0000232
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 3D0 920 980 N
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB4 0311 
Coding: 0005121
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901 
Component: Gateway KCAN 0101 
Coding: 0000006
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000

1 Fault Found 
01302 - Control Module for Telematic (J499) 
004 - No Signal/Communication

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 28: HVAC, Rear Labels: 3D0-919-158.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 158 B
Component: Klima-Bedienteil D1 0117 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 29: Left Light Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No: 3D0 909 157 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l) X012 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 553 B
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C1V0 1101 
Coding: 0017700
Shop #: WSC 98765 666 30407

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 3D0-959-760.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 760 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 F 1401 
Coding: 0000004
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation Labels: 3D0-919-887.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 887 AX
Component: NAVIGATION 0147 
Coding: 0400000
Shop #: WSC 25166 444 98490

1 Fault Found 
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 38: Roof Electronics Labels: 3D0-907-135.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 135 D
Component: Dachmodul 0802 
Coding: 0000015
Shop #: WSC 25018 444 125853

1 Fault Found 
01520 - Rain and Light Recognition Sensor (G397) 
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 39: Right Light Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No: 3D0 909 158 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r) X012 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 933 F
Component: HSG 0101 
Coding: 0000040
Shop #: WSC 25018 444 91367

Part No: 3D1 959 701 D
Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 0104

Part No: 3D1 959 702 D
Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 0104

Part No: 3D0 959 703 D
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 0104

Part No: 3D0 959 704 D
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 0104

Part No: 3D0 909 610 C
Component: 3L HDSG 2330

11 Faults Found 
00927 - Terminal 30 (Right) 
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
01516 - Terminal 30; Left 
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00926 - Terminal 30 
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
01504 - Bulb for License-Plate Light (X) 
009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220) 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00929 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Passenger Side (F221) 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
01735 - Potentiometer for Mirror Adj. Horizontal; Pass. Side 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
01737 - Potentiometer for Mirror Adj. Vertical; Pass. Side 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00930 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Left (F222) 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00931 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Right (F223) 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System Labels: 7Lx-035-4xx-47.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 466 
Component: 12K-AUDIOVERST 0115 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 65: Tire Pressure Labels: 3D0-907-273.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 273 G
Component: Reifendruckueberw. 0026 
Coding: 0410201
Shop #: WSC 25166 444 03677

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 66: Seat, Rear PS Labels: 3D0-959-860.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 860 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 H 1513 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 68: Wiper Electr. Labels: None
Part No: 3D1 955 119 
Component: Front Wiper 2005 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 71: Battery Charger Labels: 3D0-915-181.lbl
Part No: 3D0 915 181 C
Component: Batteriemanagement 2700 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 76: Park Assist Labels: 3D0-919-283.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 283 C
Component: 03 Einparkhilfe 0807 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Your transmission scan when you had that ABS controller replaced last year was this:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09L-927-760.lbl
Part No SW: 09L 927 760 A HW: GS1 9.0 4.1 
Component: AG6 09L 4,2L V8 0901 
Coding: 0000102
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So you are definitely operating different software now, updated from 0901 to 1003.

Chris


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Are you stalking me??? Good to know they did the flash as well, I assume that means I'm now on the new specification of fluid. Do you happen to have the transmission adaptation procedure I recall seeing some time in the past? Something about driving to a certain speed, moving through the gears, etc.


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## twgin (Apr 25, 2012)

see snapdragon post #300 above, is that what your looking for ?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That's it! Knew I'd seen it somewhere. Thanks!


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

More adaptation information here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...flash-code&p=80751988&viewfull=1#post80751988

Damon


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Are you stalking me???


That would be a waste of time, you are invisible! 

CB


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

While I was on the phone with Fidelity yesterday, I asked how much they'd paid out on my policy. The current grand total is $25,831!!!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Forgot to mention that with the software upgrade for the new transmission, the paddle shifters no longer work unless I move the gear lever to the tiptronic position. Guessing it needs a coding change but I haven't got round to looking it up yet.


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## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

*Tranni is slipping*

I experienced a strong shudder in my transmission when shifting out of 1st gear. So I took it to my local VW dealer. At first they said that VW technical support said that a tranni flush, add the new blue fluid and a software update would solve the problem. Actually, they gave that an 80% success rate for a whopping $1400.00. I told them to pass on that since I had mechanical insurance and felt that the tranni was covered in that policy. 

Today they test drove the car and got some slipping codes. They presented the codes and the recommendation for repair to Preferred Insurance for a whopping 9k. Preferred is asking them to consider taking the tranni apart or possibly putting in a used one from a damaged car. VW said that would rather not do that and go with the VW remanufactured version. Tomorrow, an adjuster will contacting VW to come up with a solution.

My concern is that Preferred may not cover the tranni and then I am hosed. Anyone, have any ideas? By the way my 05 Phaeton has 136k and we just replaced the tranni pan gasket, filter and put in about 7 qts of the original fluid.

Ernie O.


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## twgin (Apr 25, 2012)

Hi Ernie, sorry to hear of your problems...

So, just to understand, the transmission problems began after draining some old ATF out, changing the filter, and refilling with new ATF ?

The transmission was fine before any work was done ? 

(yuck, if this is so, every guy out here in Phaeton land with a 100K transmission is re evaluating whether to flush a perfectly good transmission or just wait for it to fall off the car...)

Was the filling done with careful attention to levels and fluid temp and all that ? i.e. do your local guys know Phaetons ?

Off the wall, but can't small errors in fill level cause problems at the margins of transmission envelope ?

Terry


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm sure once the insurance company is presented with an estimate for dismantling the transmission, they'll be more likely to agree to a remanufactured unit. If they're balking at the current estimate, you might also think about trying a different dealer. Mine was just replaced with a remanufactured unit and the bill to Fidelity for that was $6600.


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## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

The insurance company hasn't balked yet, but we will see what happens today.

As for the issue prior to the replacing the seal. I can't say as I never punched it to get out in traffic from a stop. However, I have punched it from 4th to 6th gear and have noticed a high rev and a slight delay.


As for the flushing of the tranni, the dealer advised against that as well. He said that it might loosen up bits that might create more problems than expected. The deal did check the levels and said all was fine. But they said that there is a new BLUE fluid that should be used. Yet they sold me the RED fluid, go figure.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The blue fluid, assuming that the VW tech who explained it to me is correct, is a _temporary_ fluid. The old fluid is drained, filled with the blue, then the vehicle is run for ~500 miles, after which the blue fluid is flushed and replaced with the other fluid. He said it's used for a very specific issue (which I think was clutch slippage on a particular clutch). He told me it was used on the W12 transmission only, but I wasn't entirely convinced by that particular assertion.

This dealer is also WAY over-charging for the fluid flush. I've had two quotes, one for $800 and the other for $450, both from VW main dealers.

One other thing I should add, my "new" transmission isn't perfect. There's a clunk going from R to D, occasional hard shifts (mostly 4 to 3, but this morning going up from 2 to 3), and idling in D produces a noticeable, cyclical vibration.


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

invisiblewave said:


> One other thing I should add, my "new" transmission isn't perfect. There's a clunk going from R to D, occasional hard shifts (mostly 4 to 3, but this morning going up from 2 to 3), and idling in D produces a noticeable, cyclical vibration.


Have your dealer inspect the transmission and motor mounts.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I don't think it's the mounts, it only does it in certain circumstances. I suspect the vibration is something to do with the torque converter and the hard shifts something internal to the transmission. I could live with it as it is, my concern is that twelve months and one day after installation, it'll need to be replaced.


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

invisiblewave said:


> I don't think it's the mounts, it only does it in certain circumstances. I suspect the vibration is something to do with the torque converter and the hard shifts something internal to the transmission. I could live with it as it is, my concern is that twelve months and one day after installation, it'll need to be replaced.


Random vibrations that is not consistent all the time sounds like mounts to me... A lot of odd vibrations turns out to be mounts. By 80,000 miles... several mounts are worn out by now if they never been replaced. Look, you got warranty... the dealer is happy to inspect them for you.

As for transmission, there is no excuse for anything other than perfect.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

You're preaching to the converted, I've had $26k's worth of work from the warranty, and I'm taking it down there on friday for them to take another look, and also to have the black trim panels looked at by the VW rep.


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## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

*Preferred Warrantee Company...*

So the insurance company is only going to replace the tranni with a used model. They have one with 75,000 miles and will have it installed for 3500.00. VW said no way. They will only put in a VW remanufactuered unit for 9k. 

What a mess!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

If that's the most the insurance will pay, my suggestion would be to find a dealer who's willing to do the job without the 50% markup and pay the difference yourself. To give you a bit of extra ammo, the invoice for mine lists the remanufactured transmission (part number 09L-300-035-PX) at $6608, the core return at $1500, and the labour charge at $1517.

Mine was also done in Texas, btw, so the worst case scenario would seem to be that you drive to Dallas and pay $3000 of the job yourself. Based on my experience with Fidelity, I'd also recommend calling the insurance yourself and haggling, tell them you've found a dealer that'll do it for $6600 and offer to split the difference with them between that and their $3600 proposal.


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## twgin (Apr 25, 2012)

Everyone wants to swap out whole transmissions - there might be cheaper and easier ways if anyone would stop and think. Ernie, not speaking of you, but rather your VW people, insurance people, etc. It sounds to me like they are knee jerking their way along...

Right now your transmission has a mish mash of old and new fluid due to the fact that only about half of the old fluid was removed via the drain pan. Whether or not the software flash has been done is up in the air (sounds like not). The VW tech's comment about new fluid dislodging chunks of debris I have heard from other transmission people, although it was in the context of using a "cleaner" solution along with a "fluid exchange" type of flush as opposed to a "drain the tranny pan" kind of flush.

If this were me I would at this point assume keeping the old transmission until it was clear it was bad. I would insist on the software flash and, if using the drain pan flush, at least a couple of flushes to insure that 80 to 90 % of the fluid in the tranny is indeed the new stuff (blue).

If the tranny still wasn't behaving I would investigate having the valve body reconditioned.

Only after all these alternatives were exhausted would I agree to a new transmission, and I think I would feel this way warranty or not.

These are all much cheaper and less invasive procedures than simply swapping in an already old (75K miles ?) transmission or even a new transmission.

Invisible - I thought the old (yellow) and the new (blue) fluids were indicated by whether or not the tranny software had been flashed (yellow - no flash upgrade, blue - flash upgraded). Your comment that the blue is a "temporary" fluid is new to me.

Finally, in the epic Tomasty transmission thread there is a forum member who impresses me as knowing a whole bunch about these ZF boxes (he seems to rebuild transmissions as a sort of paid hobby !) and also references to a New York based ZF transmission guru who knows just about everything. I would track these guys down and get their opinions.

Terry


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The problem with the multiple-flush approach is the cost. He said they quoted him $1400 for a flush, so by the time you've flushed it twice you're already at half the cost of a remanufactured transmission. Even if you find a dealer willing to do it for less, flushing is still an expensive option with no guarantees. From what I recall of Tomasty's flush, the new fluid wasn't blue, it was gold, same as the old fluid wasn't it? I also don't recall anything about a NY based ZF guru. Do you have a link? I know more than one of us here has searched in vain for a ZF facility capable of doing the service they carry out in Dortmund.


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## twgin (Apr 25, 2012)

OK, here's a link to the Tomasty thread. Ernie, wouldn't hurt you to read through this:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5517943-Phaeton-ATF-Concern-(Please-Help!)

The knowledgable forum member is: bjohns86 

here is a quote from him from the Tomasty thread:

If you would like a good resource with ZF automatics as a whole from an independent, ZF authorized shop you should call Eriksson Industries in New York. Ask for Nat, he is the owner and exceptionally knowledgeable with ZF's as this is their bread and butter. He may not know which software is correct for your car but he has direct access to ZF databases and is a very friendly guy. The website is www.erikssonindustries.com. Let me know what you find. Good luck!

Terry


----------



## ArtWarshaw (Feb 15, 2006)

*Transmission Flush Cost Question*

I replaced the fluid in my transmission a few months ago but had not discovered the tech tip post recommending the second flush and reflash of the TCM and ECM. 

The dealer is quoting $1000 to do the second flush with the new fluid and reflash. They said the fluid itself was $400. They only charged me $159 labor to change the fluid the first time which means they are charging $450 for the reflash. I'm thinking the reflash means they hook it up to a computer and do other things while the download is happening. This strikes me as an unreasonable amount of money for this process. Am I completely in error here?


----------



## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

invisiblewave said:


> The problem with the multiple-flush approach is the cost. He said they quoted him $1400 for a flush, so by the time you've flushed it twice you're already at half the cost of a remanufactured transmission. Even if you find a dealer willing to do it for less, flushing is still an expensive option with no guarantees. From what I recall of Tomasty's flush, the new fluid wasn't blue, it was gold, same as the old fluid wasn't it? I also don't recall anything about a NY based ZF guru. Do you have a link? I know more than one of us here has searched in vain for a ZF facility capable of doing the service they carry out in Dortmund.


I was quoted a price today of $1,000.00 for a full flush with filter change. This was from a business in or near Atlanta-German Master Tech using the Tim Eckhart method. I thought this was a bit expensive but after reading some of this thread I'm not so sure.
This price didn't involve a reflash

Cantrell


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I think mine was reflashed when they put the new transmission in, presumably because it came with the new fluid. It was several weeks ago, but I think I remember checking the software on the controller and comparing it with an old scan. I can take another look if you like, if they put the new fluid in and don't flash it I suspect you'll run into shifting problems.

Still not happy with my new transmission, there's a very annoying idle vibration that wasn't there before they did the job, and it clunks going into D.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 6, 2012)

*The torque converter........*

My experience with my 6 speed have caused me to conclude that many of the problems with the transmission derive solely from the torque converter and the valve body. When things go "pear shaped" with the torque converter no codes will be thrown; so "diagnostic" logic goes out the window - "no codes so there's nothing that can be done about the symptoms" is a frequent quote from dealers and repair shops alike. So we are encouraged to trundle on until something else pops up. The symptoms usually do get worse, and wind up costing (somebody) a transmission - probably needlessly.
In my experience the first place to look to resolve rough shifting problems (in the 6 speed) and the myriad symptoms of wonky transmissions (slipping, rpm blips etc., etc.) is the torque converter. The torque converter is not in the transmission..... it is sandwiched between the transmission and the engine. And when the TC is not right the valve body gets overworked (particularily the lock-up valve) and eventually it needs repair too. If a transmission has been replaced it would not be fully "done" 
unless the TC has been replaced and the valve body has been (at the very least) bench tested for performance.
I recently replaced my TC at 100,000 miles (an off-warranty adventure) and all the problems were 
solved. No re-flash was done and, so far, no indication that it was necessary. I would urge anybody who experiences "the symptoms" to not waste time and treasure on flushes. Start with the valve body - have it bench tested and refurbished. Then, if "the symptoms" don't go away - immediately - go after the torque converter. The transmission can come out of the car without removal of the engine and, in my case, the removal and replacement of everything took 14 hours.
I'd be willing to share more details of my recent "transmission" experience...... just don't want to wear out my welcome on this post.


----------



## tomasty (May 24, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> My experience with my 6 speed have caused me to conclude that many of the problems with the transmission derive solely from the torque converter and the valve body. When things go "pear shaped" with the torque converter no codes will be thrown; so "diagnostic" logic goes out the window - "no codes so there's nothing that can be done about the symptoms" is a frequent quote from dealers and repair shops alike. So we are encouraged to trundle on until something else pops up. The symptoms usually do get worse, and wind up costing (somebody) a transmission - probably needlessly.
> In my experience the first place to look to resolve rough shifting problems (in the 6 speed) and the myriad symptoms of wonky transmissions (slipping, rpm blips etc., etc.) is the torque converter. The torque converter is not in the transmission..... it is sandwiched between the transmission and the engine. And when the TC is not right the valve body gets overworked (particularily the lock-up valve) and eventually it needs repair too. If a transmission has been replaced it would not be fully "done"
> unless the TC has been replaced and the valve body has been (at the very least) bench tested for performance.
> I recently replaced my TC at 100,000 miles (an off-warranty adventure) and all the problems were
> ...


[email protected], big welcome! I always feel the problem with my transmission is the torque converter or to be more specific, the TC clutch, we would eager to know more about your experience with the transmission, please share with us, at this point, I am kid of getting to live with the fact that the transmission or TC might have a design flaw when it reaches certain mileage, just by the amount of problems forum member reported with their V8 Phaetons.

Tomas


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 6, 2012)

*Thanks Tomas! More details..........*

Thanks Tomas!
Your posts (and others) on this thread were very helpful to me as I tried to figure out (over a period of 1 year and 6,000 miles) an effective way to resolve my transmission "symptoms". I have no warranty, so careful planning was in order.
On the face of it, flushes seem to make sense. I started that way too. My mechanic drained the transmission, put in a new filter and re-filled with the VW spec trans fluid. The whole process took 1 1/2 hours. The re-fill was done from the bottom of the trans without the pan on - the mechanic is very familiar with the 4.2 quattro drivetrain, so he did it the same way on the Phaeton as he has done for years on the Audis that he services.
The benefits at this stage of the process were as follows:
1) new oil and filter in the trans
2) inspection of the magnets - sludge present, but no metal filings
And, initially, the trans responded nicely. The shifts up and down smoothed out, the lock-up was more crisp, "rev blips" between 1 & 2k rpm went away and there was no shuddering (chattering). That lasted about 2000 miles - and then the problems were back (but no worse than before).
I decided to try another trans fluid change. No re-flash was done, and the trans, once again, responded well. This time it lasted 3,000 miles, over which time the "symptoms" gradually returned and things started to get worse - specifically the shuddering (particularily on soft acceleration, and especially going up from 2 to 3) and hard downshifts from 6 to 5. A clunk when coming to a stop also started to become apparent. And, curiously, an intermittent rumble coming from the right rear was becoming more audible and more frequent.
During all of those miles the MIL light never came on, and frequent scans never turned up any untoward codes or messages. The trans never went into limp mode, and there was never any change in the display to indicate any distress in the gearbox - so I wasn't immediately concerned about the gearbox itself........ so we went ahead as follows;
The valve body was removed and sent out to be refurbished. I drove the car about 200 miles.... the symptoms came back.
The problem, then, had to be (and was) the torque converter. It was removed, sent away for a total refurbishment and re-installed. The transmission now operates "as new", and the entire drivetrain is quiet, smooth and vibration-free.
Time will tell, but I'm confident that this will prove to be a long-term, cost effective solution.
The valve body refurb and the TC removal, refurb and re-install cost a little less than 4,000.00$....... 16 hours was needed to complete everything.
I hope that this info will prove helpful - I'll update this post after I've had a chance to put some more mileage on the car.
Regards,
[email protected]


----------



## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Thank you Sacha for sharing the information. Very conclusive diagnostic.

Torque converter causing that issue... who would have thought about...and dealers don't care... they think it is just a better way to replace the whole nine yard than to try to figure out the problem.

Just out of curiosity... how much did the labor cost to replace the torque converter? I know VW still has them for clearance for $200 but the labor cost to swap that out is the question...

Assuming there is no metal shaving in the tranny pan... the cost of the flush or the valve body repair is used to replace the torque converter first... would make sense...


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The net cost of a complete VW re-manufactured transmission, which includes the torque converter, is $5k.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 6, 2012)

*The torque converter, the valve body, and the Phaeton owner...........*

Hello Tiger,
In my case (4.2 V8) it took the mechanic 14 hours to remove and replace the transmission. It should be said that, while they have worked on many, many Audi 4.2's, this was their first look at a Phaeton - so extra time was spent to make sure they got it right (maybe 2 hours extra). The Phaeton is "put together" differently than an Audi.
To be fair, I think that many service providers (and warranty administrators) would recommend a complete overhaul/replacement of the trans rather than risk having a customer coming back unsatisfied. But here's the thing - I think the trans itself is very, very tough. And, what's more, it has been engineered to "protect" itself when, and if, the input and/or satellite systems fail. But, if the "symptoms" are left untreated for too long, the components in the trans can eventually become damaged too. The key is, if you are experiencing "the symptoms" don't wait!
Finally, to the last observation in your post, I agree: flushes may well be an unnecessary step. If, on first inspection, there is nothing in the pan to indicate severe distress inside the trans, the best use of time and money really is to get the valve body out, have it tested/repaired and move on from there. In my case the valve body removal and replacement took 2 hours. Prices are different everywhere...... a quick check online shows that a TC can be had for 800.00$ to 1,000.00$. A remanufactured TC (as in my case - mine was sent out for reconditioning) can cost 800.00$ or less depending on where you shop and how severely damaged the unit is. A warrantied unit from VW at 200.00$ sounds like a real bargain!
Again, Tiger, all of my experience and info shared is based on the 4.2 V8 engine. Things may be very different in the case of the W12 engine - particularily time estimates.
Regards,
Sacha


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## fingerlakes (Apr 9, 2013)

Just my 2 cents. I had some shift flare from 4th to 5th under hard acceleration. I did a complete flush and filter change... slowly the problem disappeared and happened less frequently. Now I don't get it at all. I have 125000 miles on it.


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Thank you Sacha.

This topic is referring to V8 6 speed transmission only. My car just had the transmission replaced under warranty... is totally different from the 6 speed issue.

$200 is for the V8 torque converter... is available via VW clearance parts list... has been for a long while since I own my Phaeton.

Whew! 14 hours labor...


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## [email protected] (Apr 6, 2012)

*Valve body and torque converter repair.... 1,000 miles later.*

I've used the Phaeton every day since the valve body and torque converter were replaced (October 8, 2013). A combination of city (lots of hills) and sustained highway driving (all day in the 50-85 mph range) has revealed zero problems with "the fix". The final bill for all the work was 3,600.00$.
The tech report on the TC was that there was an unusual amount of wear throughout the unit (clutches, plates etc.) There was no evidence of "catastrophic breakage" or "part failure" in the TC - just excessive wear due to higher-than-average slippage.
Had I done the valve body at the outset (1,400.00$ parts and labour), I might have avoided the cost of having to replace the TC...... but I'm still very happy with the results that have been achieved.


----------



## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

Mine does a "HUNCK"/"ERK" sound combination between the same gears.

-John


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Three years ago I purchased a Phaeton with 30,000 miles. It was my second. My wife loved the interior and exterior colors (black/anthracite).

It had a tranny that caused RPM variance and at the time required a flash/flush with VW's equivalent of ZF's Lifeguard6 IAW VW tech bulletin.
It has worked well, now at 78,000. My wife is putting on the miles. A lovely car for a lovely woman, and she gets compliments and questions at the most unexpected times. If I have to replace a driver's window regulator, that'll be the reason.

Nine months ago I had my mechanic at Garnet drop the pan and replace the fluid and filter on my first Phaeton at 63,000. 
After consultation with ZF they suggested Lifeguard8. I used VW's equivalent and did not do a flash.
It has worked well. My son was initially embarrassed to drive such a nice car. But I showed him the Phaeton vs Polo YouTube again and told him to get over it. It's a part of my love language to keep the people I love safe.

I now have the four seater, my car, (although I offered it to my wife) at Garnet to do the same tranny fluid change at 57,000 miles.

My wife's car is due for another transmission oil change, with almost 50,000 on this batch (78,000 total). 
I'll probably replace it with VW's equivalent of Lifeguard8, even though it had a flash with the last flush. 
Then again I might go with Lifeguard6 for the sake of continuity. If it's not normal (due to the flash), I'll go back to Lifeguard6.

I'll make sure the four seater is normal before doing it though, so I have a sample size of two.

I'll update the knowledge base in due time.

FYI Lifeguard8 is for trannys with 8 gears ostensibly. I'd wager that if it was available when they encountered the fluctuating RPM's, they'd have done a flush rather than a flash/flush.


----------



## AndrewO (Aug 19, 2012)

*Mechatronic Replacement/Repair (Range Sensor Fault) Part 09L927760A*

My 04 Phaeton (106000 miles) began intermittently lighting up the PRNDS and going into limp mode. Eventually, the check engine light came on and I took the vehicle to Garnet VW. Their scan indicated a faulty transmission range sensor that is part of the Mechatronic unit, Part No. 09L927760A, which VW has discontinued. As a result, the only service option they can offer is to replace the transmission. If anyone knows of an available replacement part or can reccomend a less drastic fix, I would greatly appreciate it!


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Andrew,

That (discontinued) mechatronics unit listed at about €2,800. If it were me, I would first get a ZF-certified transmission shop to do a 2-part transmission flush. This is where you drain as far as you can, refill, run the car for a while and then repeat, having cleaned the pan and fitted new filters and swarf magnets. The dual-drain shifts most of the degraded fluid and particles. Or, they may offer to completely drain and separately flush the mechatronics unit, if they are techy enough. It uses a lot of rather expensive ATF, but that's an order of cost less than €3800.

You never know, maybe cleaning the valve orifices and valve seats might just flush out some contaminants and give you a lot more miles.

Phaetons and all other cars with sophisticated digital fault monitoring, have a complex reaction to faults. What you see on a scan is not necessarily the root cause. Is it possible to borrow a VCDS from someone nearby and post a full vehicle scan? The dealer scans often use a 'guided fault-finding' technique that isolates the most likely subsystem, but a raw data scan might help because there are thousands of other scans and diagnoses posted on-line to compare with.

I assume since you posted here that you have a V8, which assumes a ZF 6HP19A transmission?

Chris


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## Phat One (Jul 10, 2009)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-VW-PH...ALVE-BODY-MECHATRONIC-/143393896473#vi-ilComp


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

It's also possible to get them refurbished. I agree with Chris, though, a VW dealer is the last place I'd rely on for diagnostic help with my transmission, I'd let a good transmission shop look at it and try a flush.


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## AndrewO (Aug 19, 2012)

*Mechatronic Replacement/Repair (Range Sensor Fault) Part 09L927760A*

Thank you gentlemen for your suggestions. I did have the transmission flush about a year ago, along with replacing both fuel pumps, and had sigificant improvement. The mechatronic for sale on eBay is the right part number, but apparenty my vin number is too high. I contacted ZF North America and they indicated they don't sell the valve body and referred me to Eriksson Industries (800-388-4418). Embarrassingly, I don't have a VAG-Com although I have been planning to get one since 2012  However, I picked up the car from the dealer, with the fault and MIL light cleared, and the car seems to be back to normal. I spoke with Nick at German Auto Specialists in Plymouth Meeting; he seems knowlegable and has worked on mechatronics on some other vehicles(he mentioned Audi TT along with some others),and he is willing to try to troubleshoot-so I guess that is my next step if the issue is recurring, along with buying the Vag-Com so I can scan and publish the results (and reclear my TPMS warning light, which John T was kind enough to clear for me back in 2013. It came back on after the above mentioned dealer service. When I complained, they offerred to attempt to clear it for $135.00 plus tax, with no guarantees!)
Andrew


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

There's a kit to refurbish the valve body, but you really need to send it somewhere that can pressure-test it after refurbishing. Not sure if the kit includes any sensors, but as Chris suggested, the likelihood is that the sensor is ok but that wear & tear on the valve body itself is causing pressure drops.


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## Phat One (Jul 10, 2009)

www.sonnax.com makes the kit. You can get it from a distributor


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## AndrewO (Aug 19, 2012)

*Mechatronic Replacement/Repair (Range Sensor Fault) Part 09L927760A*

The PRNDS/MIL/limp mode returned. Hopefully found the part in Germany through Eriksson Industries. In the meanwhile, here is my scan:


https://event.on24.com/wcc/r/[email protected],20,April,2020,11:47:17:01202
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows XP x86
VCDS Version: 19.6.2.2
Data version: 20200210 DS308.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWAF63D748008592 License Plate: PHAETON
Mileage: 171580km-106614mi Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 3D (3D - VW Phaeton (2002 > 2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 07 08 09 11 13 15 16 17 18 19 23 27 28 29 2E
34 36 37 38 39 46 47 55 56 57 65 66 68 69 71 75 76 77

VIN: WVWAF63D748008592 Mileage: 171580km-106614miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 4D0-907-560-BGH.lbl
Part No SW: 4D0 907 560 CS HW: 
Component: 4.2L V8/5V G 0040 
Coding: 0007873
Shop #: WSC 12265 002 1048576
VCID: 79F99FD133DDE087E2-515E

1 Fault Found:
18032 - MIL Request Signal Active (Check TCM for errors too!) 
P1624 - 008 - - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09L-927-760.lbl
Part No SW: 09L 927 760 G HW: GS1 904 1
Component: AG6 09L 4,2L V8 1905 
Coding: 0001102
Shop #: WSC 06527 444 61844
VCID: 3B7545D979611297B0-515E

1 Fault Found:
17090 - Transmission Range Sensor (F125) 
P0706 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 40
Mileage: 171557 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1440 /min
RPM: 640 /min
RPM: 128 /min
(no units): 1.0
(no units): 52.0
Temperature: 65.0∞C
T.B. Angle: 19.2∞


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 3D0-614-517.lbl
Part No: 3D0 614 517 R
Component: ESP 5.7 allrad H33 0043 
Coding: 0008376
Shop #: WSC 05073 000 00000
VCID: 316967F1AB2DE8C71A-5142

1 Fault Found:
01119 - Gear Recognition Signal 
000 - - - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 909 135 K HW: 5WK 470 25
Component: Kessy 6400 
Coding: 0002280
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2D517B81B7158C273E-515E

Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 
Component: ELV XXXX

1 Fault Found:
00165 - Switch for Transmission Position P/N 
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 06: Seat Mem. Pass Labels: 3D0-959-759.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 759 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 BF 1520 
Coding: 0000003
Shop #: WSC 05074 444 00083
VCID: 356153E15F45C4E746-515E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 008 Q
Component: ZAB COCKPIT 0223 
Coding: 0500105
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 285F8A9598F7A90FCD-515E

2 Faults Found:
01300 - Control Module for Navigation with CD-Rom (J401) 
004 - No Signal/Communication
00384 - Optical Databus 
004 - No Signal/Communication

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 040 G
Component: Climatronic D1 1132 
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 05074 444 00083
VCID: 224B98BDFECB435F93-5142

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3D0-937-049-V1.clb
Part No: 3D0 937 049 G
Component: STG.Bordnetz 5001 
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 05073 444 58471
VCID: 2E537C8DBA13F73F07-515E

1 Fault Found:
00907 - Intervention load Management 
000 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 3D0-909-601.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 601 D
Component: 0A Airbag 8.4E+ H07 0934 
Coding: 0012353
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 24479EA5E4DF4D6FE1-515E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 3D0-953-549.lbl
Part No: 3D0 953 549 E
Component: Lenks‰ulenmodul 3401 
Coding: 0000232
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2F6D6189BD19FE370C-515E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 3D0 920 981 A
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB4 0312 
Coding: 0007221
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 254183A1EFE5B467F6-515E

1 Fault Found:
01325 - Control Module for Tire Pressure Monitoring (J502) 
004 - No Signal/Communication

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901 
Component: Gateway K<>CAN 0101 
Coding: 0000006
Shop #: WSC 47415 001 1048576
VCID: 70EFA2F560A7A1CF55-515E

1 Fault Found:
01325 - Control Module for Tire Pressure Monitoring (J502) 
004 - No Signal/Communication

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 28: HVAC, Rear Labels: 3D0-919-158.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 158 F
Component: Klima-Bedienteil D1 0117 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2E537C8DBA13F73F07-5142

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 29: Left Light Labels: 3D0-909-157.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 157 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l) X012 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 66C3C4AD52637F7F3F-515E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553-V2.clb
Part No: 3D0 907 553 C
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C3V0 1122 
Coding: 0007722
Shop #: WSC 12265 002 1048576
VCID: 275D89A995E9A677C4-515E

2 Faults Found:
01577 - Turn-Off due to Over-Temp 
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
01583 - Leak in System Detected 
000 - - - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 3D0-959-760.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 760 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 F 1520 
Coding: 0000004
Shop #: WSC 05074 444 00083
VCID: 2D517B81B7158C273E-515E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 38: Roof Electronics Labels: 3D0-907-135.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 135 D
Component: Dachmodul 0802 
Coding: 0000047
Shop #: WSC 05073 444 11888
VCID: 24479EA5E4DF4D6FE1-515E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 39: Right Light Labels: 3D0-909-158.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 158 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r) X012 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 67DDC9A95569667704-5124

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 933 E
Component: 4D HSG 3212 
Coding: 0000034
Shop #: WSC 06506 444 180514
VCID: 326B68FDAE2BD3DF63-4B1C

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 3D1 959 701 D
Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 0104

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 3D1 959 702 D
Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 0104

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 3D0 959 703 D
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 0104

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 3D0 959 704 D
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 0104

Subsystem 5 - Part No: 7L0 907 719 
Component: Neigungssensor 0020

1 Fault Found:
01325 - Control Module for Tire Pressure Monitoring (J502) 
004 - No Signal/Communication

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System Labels: 7Lx-035-4xx-47.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 466 
Component: 12K-AUDIOVERST 0115 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 5FCDD1498D392EB7FC-515E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 66: Seat, Rear Labels: None
Part No: 3D0 959 860 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 H 1513 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 05074 444 00083
VCID: 2E537C8DBA13F73F07-5142

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 68: Wiper Electr. Labels: 3Dx-955-1xx-V1.clb
Part No: 3D1 955 119 
Component: Front Wiper 2005 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 66C3C4AD52637F7F3F-515E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 71: Battery Charger Labels: 3D0-915-181.lbl
Part No: 3D0 915 181 D
Component: Batteriemanagement 2800 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 24479EA5E4DF4D6FE1-515E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 75: Telematics Labels: 3D0-035-617.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 035 617 HW: 3D0 035 617 
Component: Telematik NAR1 0101 
Coding: 0061860
Shop #: WSC 05074 444 01149
VCID: 5DB1EB4187353CA7EE-515E

1 Fault Found:
01526 - Emergency Call Button (E276) 
009 - Open or Short to Ground - MIL ON

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 07:57)--------------------------

Any comments/suggestions will be appreciated!

Andrew


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

You should address your leaking shock before you burn out your compressor.


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