# Updating NAR Phaetons to 2015 technology while retaining the J523 Infotainment Unit



## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

*Phaeton backup camera, Bluetooth hands-free and audio streaming, and GPS upgrade*


----------



## jac1d (Oct 18, 2014)

Victor,

Very nice! Solid work.

How did you get video inputs on the J523? I don't see a TV button?

-Jeff


----------



## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Victor. 

Wow.

Regarding the blue tooth integration, did you also use Keith Bloom's mod for this? If you didn't use his mod, how much would you lose?

Roughly how much would this cost to do what you did?

How did you run the wire for the back up camera?

How much hi fidelity do you lose when using Pandora for the music?

Very, very impressive.


----------



## dadakey (Jan 10, 2015)

so did the cd changer have to be rendered useless or was the spot needed. how much did it cost and who did it. been looking for these updates for a while but would like to keep the changer


----------



## Dorward (Jan 22, 2015)

This is exactly what I want to do! When you get time, will you please post the details of how and what you used to do this?

Thanks,

Chris


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Very impressive Victor.


----------



## dbduece (Dec 16, 2014)

Must have your recipe, sir!


----------



## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

Hi guys,

Thanks for the kudos!

I did a writeup with specifics - choice of individual pieces with links to the original manufacturer's websites, links to informational and "how to" posts, and pictures.

John from SeriousAboutSound did the NAV-TV and camera install. I have linked some details as to what the requirements for the NAV-TV install are in my writeup, but that install is way above my ham-fisted abilities. My strengths are in research, analyzing and planning rather than DIY skills.

Dave, John's assistant, is planning a write up about the entirety of the backup camera/NAV-TV install as this does not appear anywhere on the web.

I believe that the questions asked in the replies to date will be answered by the writeup. If not, let me know...

Victor


----------



## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

These upgrades were pieced together using aftermarket technology from various sources. There are obviously many different ways in which one can accomplish all of this, but after a great deal of very extensive research to find the “best” products and visualizing how this all would fit together, this is what I came up with. Pieces were added at different times, but everything came together when I decided to get a backup camera system this Christmas.

Here are all the individual pieces in order of how I obtained them:


*Solisto Pro upgrade: *

Here is a picture of the unit; the website can be found *here*. 



I first read about this on the forum *here*.

There were also nice forum posts as to* how to remove the CD-changer*. (There are others also.) The trickiest part of this install was the removal of the CD unit. As noted, there are many posts on the forum as to how to do this. Once that is accomplished, it is simply a matter of unplugging the CD changer and plugging in the Solisto.

The problem with this replacement is that it does require sacrificing the CD-changer. I explored the possibility of an A/B switch tokeep the changer as well and ultimately came to realize that even if one were made, switching inputs from A to B would require turning the car off each time. This is because the J523 Control Unit is operated via the CAN bus and turns on when you just open the door of the car. This problem would hold true for any replacement system.

So, I lived with the loss of the CD changer but no longer lament it. The Solisto Pro has a 3.5 mm Audio input but also has a USB input where one can make six folders (CD1 through CD6) on a USB stick and put up to 99 tracks into each folder. Far more data than on CD’s and CD’s could easily be ripped to mp3 files, eliminating any need for the changer. 

N.B., however, the USB input here supports the "mass storage device" protocol for USB only, i.e. no power available via this input, nor the ability to use a USB-bluetooth adapter to input via this port.

Finally, for Apple products, the unit has a connection to plug in iPods and iPhones.


*Bluetooth phone:*

By now, most of you know of Keith Bloom’s brilliant adaption of the Bluestar unit, designed for GM cars, to our Phaetons using the obsolete analog OnStar units in MY ’04 and ’05 (not ’06) Phaetons.
It uses the unit designed by *Costar technologies*. 



This does require removing the OnStar controller button module from the overhead console and sending it in to Keith for mods. 










After that, reinstalling this module is required, as is removing the OnStar module in the trunk and replacing it with the Costar box. The latter step is made more complicated due to the need to migrate wire terminals in the connectors, but I had no trouble with this.

A detailed thread started by Keith on this with links to instructions can be *found on the forum*. I posted my own experiences in installing this on that thread.


*Tunelink Bluetooth system*

Wanting Bluetooth audio streaming in my cars, I, at length, researched products that would allow this. There is a myth that a device such as a phone can only be connected to one bluetooth receiver at a time. This is not true, depending on protocols used. I wanted a device that would allow me to connect my phone to the Solisto via bluetooth for audio streaming while also being connected to the Bluestar cell phone.

I ultimately settled on the *Tunelink Auto Universal system* from New Potato Technologies. 



This device can either serve as a FM transmitter with the inherent limitations and loss of sound quality of that technology, but, more importantly, has a direct connect output via a 3.5mm audio jack. This allows me to plug the audio directly into the Solisto’s input with no sound quality loss compared to the wired CD-changer.

The "install" of the Tunelink entails sticking the unit into a cigarette lighter power plug. I posted on this unit *here*. The thread only garnered 244 views, and no replies, perhaps because the wire was deemed too unaesthetic… or perhaps because nobody cared?

When I decided to have a backup camera installed that required accessing power from the car as part of the install anyway, I asked if an additional cigarette lighter plug could be installed in the glove compartment so I could plug the Tunelink in out of sight and near the Solisto unit, eliminating the visible wire.


*Backup camera*

In the post above, I lamented about wanting a Phaeton back up camera. This is something that I haven’t found on the forum despite extensive searching. While there are occasional posts about this having been accomplished (see *here* and *here*, none of these are particularly helpful. Here is *another one*; while again not helpful, I at least got a good laugh out of (? former) forum member stjarna’s comments. In one thread, though, someone did *ask about the NAV-TV unit* as an option… 

I ultimately purchased a system (actually two – one for each of my Phaetons. I have all of the upgrades in this post on both cars.) using the NAV-TV system. The central piece is the *NAV_TV BNT-kit*.



NAV-TV has a set of install instructions as a *direct downloadable .pdf* file. The instructions are detailed in terms of how to install the NAV-TV into the J523 and I would have no problems doing that, but they totally gloss over how to install power to the RGB module - steps 10 and 11. I would be hopeless in trying to figure that out.

Couple that with the need to *remove the infotainment unit* and it was clear to me that installing this is way beyond my talents, so I had this professionally done.

The backup camera itself came from* Tadibrothers *



I had this installed by 

*Serious About Sound LLC.
2096 Pennsylvania 212
Coopersburg, PA 18036
(610) 346-9333*

They came highly recommended as installers, and they are familiar with NAV-TV, as they are dealers.

Their website is *here*. John, the proprietor is an extremely talented and meticulous man. Together with his assistant, Dave, they managed to do the install on cars they had never seen before and, due to the rare nature of Phaetons, there was little information on the web to guide them. This forum was a big help.

Despite John being very genial and generally upbeat, it was clear to me that even for a professional installer, a talented and seasoned one at that, this was a most difficult and challenging install. Amazingly, he did not appear to get frustrated at all. John tells me that he and Dave took pictures and Dave is planning a write-up of the install for the forum. I need to defer any details of this to them. A point of interest here, though: As I had the backup camera installed into both my four-seater and my five-seater, John tells me the install was actually more difficult to do on the five-seater, having to do with running the wire to/from the camera mounted on the rear license plate frame.

As the NAV-TV unit has two video inputs, John, who does a lot of custom installs, suggested I could use the second input for a custom installed DVD player. This was of little interest to me, but it got me thinking…



The final annoyance as far as technological obsolescence on the Phaeton is the CD-based navigation system. Not only is it tedious and time consuming to enter destinations and one needs to change discs when crossing state lines, but, most annoyingly, the system itself is terrible at routing. It has taken me in circles on many occasions. This is in spite of my regularly updating CD’s when new BMW ones become available. I had of late taken to using Google maps for my navigation, but this was not integrated with the rest of the system/car.

Thus, the idea of replacing the navigation functionality occurred to me. My HTC One M8 cell phone does have the ability to put data out through what I believed was its Micro-USB port. On researching how I could get the phone signal into a regular composite video input, I discovered *MHL* technology.

Now all that was required was an adapter. Upon researching, I found the *Orei HD-M2AV MHL Micro USB to Composite RCA Video Converter*.



This is designed for use with analog TV’s/monitors and comes with an AC adaptor. 



John of SAS, though, noted that my Tunelink adaptor had a 5V DC out via its USB jack, just what the Orei unit required. 



John said he could adapt a cable for this, but I found a high quality cable commercially available: * USB to Type M Barrel 5V DC power cable.*



Note: Anybody interested in the Orei adaptor needs to look into MHL technology and make sure their phone is compatible with this. Even Orei, the company, uses the wrong terminology, calling it a “Micro-USB” converter when it really is an MHL converter. The unit has has some bad reviews on the internet. I believe the confusion between MHL and Micro-USB explains this. Both of mine work perfectly.

Hence, the final configuration: 



The Video 1/2 toggle switch is installed in a box John built that also has the cigarette lighter plug for the Tunelink. The Orei unit is mounted upside down, attached with industrial Velcro with the box reversed to maximize the length of the MHL cord. A 3.5 mm audio cord connects the Tunelink and the Solisto, and power for the Orei unit is supplied via the USB jack of the Tunelink.

Net result of all of this: 


Audio input options (Solisto)
Bluetooth phone (Keith Bloom/Costar) – really a stand-alone project but it integrates with everything else, with the phone taking highest priority and muting everything else via the infotainment system
Bluetooth audio (Tunelink)(also Bluetooth GPS – see 5.)
Backup camera (NAV-TV/Tadibrothers/John at SAS)
Replacement of navigation system with Google maps (NAV-TV/Orei coverter/HTC one M8 cell phone) (Also, myriad of other video options) (Thanks, John)


All I need to make this “perfect” is a reliable, stealth way of mounting my cell phone that does not look like a “stick-on” option. None of the solutions I have yet seen fit my requirements, but I keep looking… 

Victor


----------



## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

For those of you who don't know what I mean by "stick-on" options, here is a photo of a taxi I took in Japan.



While all of this is undoubtedly "functional", the aesthetics are, shall we say, at least debatable. The Phaeton's interior is a thing of beauty and I don't want to mar that. My solution has no visible changes to the interior, with everything in the glove compartment. 

For now, I am using a *removable mount* for the cell phone when I use the GPS function. Even getting the holder out, mounting the phone, connecting the MHL plug, and speaking my destination by voice takes less time than tediously entering all of the information into the Phaeton's system. I continue to be on the lookout for other options, though, especially as I no longer need to see the screen on the phone while driving. I do have something in mind which I will post on once I get to try it out and see if it works...

Since using the GPS function, however, is not a regular daily event, most of the time my cell is in my pocket and I listen to both music but mainly audiobooks via the bluetooth. Incoming calls mute the audio (pausing the book ), with it automatically resumimg when the call is done.

Victor


----------



## Dorward (Jan 22, 2015)

Excellent write up Victor! Thanks for taking the time to put everything together with great description!!
Hopefully I will be able to duplicate what you accomplished.
Chris


----------



## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

Very nice upgrade Victor, thanks so much for sharing!


----------



## jac1d (Oct 18, 2014)

johnt26 said:


> Very nice upgrade Victor, thanks so much for sharing!


Victor, just curious why you went Solisto and then added Bluetooth instead of going MediaBridge which has iPod, Aux and Bluetooth already on board? 

Nice work on the TV unit, although the installation sounds expensive and daunting. Every time I look at this I come back to the idea of perhaps installing a 7" tablet instead. But optics are an issue as you note. I wish it was practical to repliucate the HVAC and other systems in software so the in dash unit could be replaced...


----------



## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

> steveskinr
> 
> .... Very, very impressive.


Thanks, Steve! PM me if you have more questions...



> johnt26
> 
> Very nice upgrade Victor, thanks so much for sharing!


Thanks, John! Nice to hear from you.


Great to hear from phellow Philadelphia Phaeton Phans! We really do need to try to *get the group together again*. Perhaps seeing these upgrades in person might be a little inducement? 

Victor


----------



## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

> jac1d
> 
> Victor, just curious why you went Solisto and then added Bluetooth instead of going MediaBridge which has iPod, Aux and Bluetooth already on board?


Jeff,

The answer to your question is two-fold. 

1. The first is historical - as I linked above, the first I read about the Solisto unit* was in Peter Mills post in 2010.* I ultimately bought my first Solisto unit in January 2011 following lengthy research that also included corresponding with technical staff at Solisto. My second unit for the second car followed shortly.

Discussions on the Phaeton forum as to alternatives for the CD changer have been on-going. Here is a post nearly two years after I purchased my first unit questioning *"Dice vs Solisto vs Pie vs BlitzSafe vs What?"* The thing is, the DICE unit everyone was talking about then was the *DICE i-VW-T/5v*, not the* DICE Mediabridge you posted on*. You yourself note in Oct 2014:



> jac1d
> 
> There is almost no good info about the MediaBridge and the Phaeton, especially the 2004-2006 North American units.


Bluetooth technology in cars was not as ubiquitous when I first purchased my Solisto units; it is now common place. I am very happy with the Solisto units and then was one of the first adaptors of Keith Bloom's Bluetooth phone integration. As I then became interested in wireless audio streaming, I looked for a way to integrate this function via Bluetooth with the existing pieces. I was initially informed that would not be possible, that an inherent limitation of Bluetooth technology was that a device can only connect to one Bluetooth receiver at a time. Delving into this showed that this was not true, and, in investigating devices that would allow me to do this, I came up with the *Tunelink*. As noted, *my post on this* was not received with particular interest or enthusiasm, but I think it is an excellent piece of technology. (The unit has received mixed on-line reviews - almost a bimodal distribution, with some users enthusiastically endorsing it and others stating it failed shortly after they bought it. I discussed this with the manufacturer, New Potato, and was informed that they had manufacturing problems with a vendor in China that resulted in bad batches, accounting for the failures. They assured me that this issue was now corrected and told me they stand by their product and offer a full year replacement warranty.) Beyond the functionality, a major feature that sold me on this unit was their claim under the *"Advanced Features" tab*:_ "Performance that will dazzle and delight even the most discriminating audiophile."_ (see below ) I have not seen this statement with any other device.

2. The second reason has to do with me personally and my hobby history. Starting the 1970's, my primary hobby was that of being an audiophile. This continued over the years and as my budget permitted, I developed my "ultimate" system. I became a believer that individual components designed and optimized to to do one thing were superior to units that tried to do several things at once. Thus, my system has a separate preamplifier, amplifier, and tuner rather than a receiver. As the years went on, I have expanded this into a Home Theater system, with separate audio processors and video processors as well as many other separate components, continually adding and upgrading individual pieces as I feel this would improve things. I also developed an interest in computers, and have taken this same approach with computers I have built, choosing motherboards and adding additional features e.g. separate videocards and audiocards even if the motherboards had these functions built in, all in an ongoing quest to optimize performance.

You will recognize this same approach with these Phaeton upgrades. While I realize there is no "best" (which is why I put that word in quotes in my writeup on my upgrades), for me, the Solisto offers much higher quality with more features and functions than most, and the Tunelink offers an optimal Bluetooth audio steaming with truly superior audiophile sound. The two together offer total system integration in the Phaeton and beautifully complement my Bluetooth phone. I have not looked into the DICE Mediabridge in great depth as I already have an excellent solution for the functions it offers. Others, however, may find it more appealing than my personal choices.

It is a big world out there...

Victor


----------



## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

Here is nice treatise on Bluetooth *wireless audio streaming* for those interested. You will note that this followed some years after Bluetooth hands-free calling and is a little trickier in terms of achieving high quality audio.

Victor


----------



## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Excellent Victor.

I might give John a hoy. 

I have one Solisto, two of Keith's blue teeth, though only one car is wired. 

I'll be interested in what Jeff does also.


----------



## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

My wife would like the reversing camera also.


----------



## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Audi Bob put in a Bentley unit that gave him a Reversing camera. 

If Jeff is interested in the reversing camera, he might get similar functionality to you with fewer pieces.

You might have to arrange a jaunt to Vancouver. I'm not sure if my afterburner ears are sufficiently audiophile to differentiate between his stereo after he's finished and yours. .


----------



## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

Steve,

The NAV-TV BNT kit is for Bentleys (BNT). My guess is that this is what Audi Bob used also. I recall several years back that OEM Plus sold a Bentley camera interface for the Phaeton, but this was price-prohibitive - well over $2,000 as I recall for just the hardware. This has not been listed on their site for some time, so I can't be sure it was the NAV-TV unit.

One of the advantages of my install is that it is fully modular. One can do the camera alone;, so, if your wife wants this, it is a stand-alone project. If you want to input any other video, line (composite) video can be plugged in directly; otherwise a converter of some sort, e.g. the MHL one I chose, can be added at a later time. You can add GPS units, cell phones, and even tablet or laptop computers to the J523 this way if you want, at any time you want, once the NAV-TV unit is in. 

It is childishly simple to add a Bluetooth adapter to the Solisto if you do want audio-steaming; again, I highly recommend the Tunelink for its quality. You could just plug this in via the cigarette lighter like I showed in my *original post* on this, and either just live with the wire or look at alternatives for hiding this...

Yes, there appear to be newer alternatives to replacing the CD-changer with alternate audio input options, some of which do include Bluetooth audio streaming. As noted, I had already invested in the Solisto units, though, and, moreover, I am also looking to optiimize sound quality as well.

As noted, the Bluestar phone is also an independent project but all of these ultimately integrate beautifully with priorities of: hands-free phone>GPS via Google>audio streaming. Seamless, as I tried to show in the video.

I did all of the installs myself except the video and camera. Also, since I was having that install done anyway, I asked John to install an extra cigarette lighter plug in the glove compartment so I wouldn't have the 3.5mm audio jack wires between the Tunelink and the Solisto visible. I can deal with electronics; dealing with electricity is not something I am comfortable with.

I, also, would indeed be interested in Jeff's choices and ultimate install, but, realistically, I won't be going to Vancouver anytime soon...

Victor


----------



## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

I am getting a quote from John.


----------



## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Thinking of moding three. Get a $100 discount for each unit on volume from Nav TV.

If anyone else wants in that might make it feasible for you.


----------



## PolluxTroy (Feb 11, 2015)

Victor, Great job on this! I love it 

Have you considered an HDMI -> Composite (RCA) adapter for "Video 2" on the NAV-TV ? (link for reference, 5th white box in from the left) 

That way you could plug in, say, a Chromecast, and wirelessly stream your phone to the unit. 

Just a thought!

I will be doing similar updates to my infotainment system in the future, so I really appreciate the post!

Cheers! :beer:


----------



## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

Interesting thought. One would have to try this to see... HDMI inputs are sometimes tricky, requiring a "handshake" between the input and output device, and scaling of the video signal may also be an issue.

Nevertheless, an excellent suggestion. The cost of the components is not prohibitive, so it is definitely worth a try!

This is the beauty of building these upgrades in a modular way - one can swap out a component if a better solution shows itself.

Victor


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yes, HDMI isn't like other a/v connections, it's a two-way comms protocol. Just splitting the HDMI output from my cable box to two tvs turned out to be a major undertaking, the "simple" splitters didn't work. I ended up having to buy a fairly expensive Gefen box to do it, and even then it's somewhat flaky. Worth a try with Chromecast though, if it worked it'd be fantastic!


----------



## tjua (Mar 31, 2013)

Victor

Very nice and interesting write up. Just curious on how the Google maps appears on the infotainment screen. I assume it displays all map data that you have, in Google maps, choosen to display. But going into map details require interaction from the phone? Any information from Google maps also displayed in the little screen in front of the driver?

Best regards
PerM


----------



## tjua (Mar 31, 2013)

Gents,
Solisto now offers a Bluetooth USB adapter that comes with a cable for the aux in


Best regards
PerM


----------



## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

> Just curious on how the Google maps appears on the infotainment screen. I assume it displays all map data that you have, in Google maps, choosen to display. But going into map details require interaction from the phone? Any information from Google maps also displayed in the little screen in front of the driver?


Everything on the phone screen is displayed on the infotainment screen. But yes, if you need to change things, then you need the phone's touchscreen. The only way around that would be to install a touchscreen into the infotaiment system. There is a tread on the board discussing just that but that is beyond my skill set and smells like big $$$ to pay to have someone else do this professionally.

I use this mainly for GPS. Once the destination is set, I don't generally fiddle with the touchscreen. I am very happy with the results...

Victor


----------



## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

A bit late, but thank you Victor for the great work. I would sacrifice the CD changer in a second since I don't use it any ways (in all my cars). The reverse camera looked great.

Regards


----------



## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

How did you solve the poor gps signals in the phaeton. When I use Google maps inside the car I got a bad gps signals. Even with Tomtom or navtec systems.

Jorg


----------



## tjua (Mar 31, 2013)

I used an iPad and was able to use Google maps with GPS positioning. But I only tested it for a short time so difficult to say if that works all the time. Using my speed camera alert box is nearly impossible due to poor GPS signal 


Best regards
PerM


----------



## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

*GPS signal booster*

Jorgsphaeton,

Sorry, been off-line for a while.

I had actually looked into how to optimize GPS reception because I was having problems with this as well. I went as far to buy a GPS signal booster from *here*. It turns out, in my case, the problem was due to the phone and not the reception inside the Phaeton, and I have W12s with the extra shielding in the glass. Once I replaced the phone, everything worked fine and I had no need for the signal booster.

You might give this a try. I am not sure why you are having this problem, as I doubt that this would reflect an issue with GPS in Europe vs. in the US. It may simply be a problem with your phone, as it was in my case.

Good luck!

Victor


----------



## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

My CD changer just died in my '04 V8. I'm thinking the Solisto Classic+ with the Bluetooth adapter looks pretty good. Can I assume this is really just a simple "plug and play" replacement for the CD changer? Just seems too easy (especially for these cars!).

Thanks.


----------



## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

Yes, it is that simple. The most challanging part is removing the CD changer but there are multiple posts on how to do this and I had no trouble. The Tunelink adapter I got fits into the cigarette lighter slot. You will need to plug an 8mm audio cable in to connect the Tunelink and the Solisto.

Victor


----------



## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

Victor R said:


> Yes, it is that simple. The most challanging part is removing the CD changer but there are multiple posts on how to do this and I had no trouble. The Tunelink adapter I got fits into the cigarette lighter slot. You will need to plug an 8mm audio cable in to connect the Tunelink and the Solisto.
> 
> Victor


Thanks Victor. What is Tunelink?


----------



## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

See post #9 of this thead. *Link*


----------

