# What to look out for



## GroceryGetter82 (Apr 6, 2012)

My family and I are looking into purchasing a Routan in the next few months and I was wondering what I should be looking out for.
Are there any years to stay away from?

We are buying 1) to get back into a VW 2) We have another baby on the way so the more room the better 3) I like the way it looks

Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance. 


Charlie


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## routan2010se (Jun 17, 2013)

I can't speak other than I went kinda through the same thing recently. I ended up with a 2010 SE. Researching most reliable and etc, I looked at the Chrysler Town and Country for a reference (much more information on the web). Which from I think 2008 up is the Gen 5 for the platform and what the VW Routans are based on.

2009 was the first VW year and would be second for Chrysler. That was the year for the pinched wire harness I believe that start fires in the doors.

2010 is the last model before the interior gets a slight facelift. Better Steering wheel and slightly better cluster from what I can tell. Much more powerful engine in 2011 so 280hp vs the 2009, 2010 198hp. Torque is about the same, so I didnt really notice. The 2009,10 engines are more proven and seem to be reliable. The 6TE or something like that transmission first went into service in 2007 I think, some people have had issues with them on the Chrysler side first few years, but starting in 2010 models they seem to be better.

If you are looking for features, let me know, I can kinda tell what options are out there in used and pros and cons.

Brakes are a problem. Make sure those are good.

My opinion, best looking Minvan out there, 2nd best is the Toyota one, but way too much dollars.


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## Ipfreely49 (Jul 20, 2011)

GroceryGetter82 said:


> My family and I are looking into purchasing a Routan in the next few months and I was wondering what I should be looking out for.
> Are there any years to stay away from?
> 
> We are buying 1) to get back into a VW 2) We have another baby on the way so the more room the better 3) I like the way it looks
> ...


I have a 2011 with over 60000 miles and going strong. Getting ready to do brakes for the first time. Read the many posts for more info on that. The only issue I had was at 50000 and a transmission seal went out that was covered under the power train warranty. Still getting 26 city mpg without any problem. Lots of power and comfort to haul the family and a trailer around. I have the SE with the rear seat entertainment RSE it had dual DVD players and screens for the kiddos help lots with road trips. AC is strong.


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## GroceryGetter82 (Apr 6, 2012)

Thank you for chiming in. :beer:
My wife wants to look in to the Honda Odyssey but I really want to get the Routan and I think I have her 80% there. 
I just remembered that I read that one of the years was prone to repair. 

There is one at a local lot that we might look at VW Routaon SE

Not sure about the white but we will check it out


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## Ipfreely49 (Jul 20, 2011)

GroceryGetter82 said:


> Thank you for chiming in. :beer:
> My wife wants to look in to the Honda Odyssey but I really want to get the Routan and I think I have her 80% there.
> I just remembered that I read that one of the years was prone to repair.
> 
> ...


That looks like a good deal. I can't believe it only has 8000 miles plus it just might have the HD brakes they look a little beefier than mine. I still owe almost 25000$ on my 2011. 

You might want to look for a heavily discounted new one too. Might be same price since they are closing them out. 

It already has tinted windows too. 
I couldn't tell if it has the dual DVD players but it should. 

I like the white but I live in Texas... Mine is a light blue. Glad I didn't buy a black one...


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## GroceryGetter82 (Apr 6, 2012)

Ipfreely49 said:


> That looks like a good deal. I can't believe it only has 8000 miles plus it just might have the HD brakes they look a little beefier than mine. I still owe almost 25000$ on my 2011.
> 
> You might want to look for a heavily discounted new one too. Might be same price since they are closing them out.
> 
> ...


I stopped by the other day (when they were closed) and I looked at it a bit and I think that it does have the DVD player in it. 
Maybe one of these days I will go test drive it


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## 97vr6blu (May 7, 2008)

GroceryGetter82 said:


> Thank you for chiming in. :beer:
> My wife wants to look in to the Honda Odyssey but I really want to get the Routan and I think I have her 80% there.
> I just remembered that I read that one of the years was prone to repair.
> 
> ...


Dear God, buy the Honda! Save yourself many trips to your local dealership's service center! The Odyssey is a far superior van. We went with the Routan because they're so cheap. If you do decide the Routan is the choice for you, get a 2012; not only do you get the awesome Pentastar v6, but you get the bigger front brakes, too.

Oh, and for price point comparison, we paid 24,300 for our brand-new 2012 SE with RSE.


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## Ipfreely49 (Jul 20, 2011)

97vr6blu said:


> Dear God, buy the Honda! Save yourself many trips to your local dealership's service center! The Odyssey is a far superior van. We went with the Routan because they're so cheap. If you do decide the Routan is the choice for you, get a 2012; not only do you get the awesome Pentastar v6, but you get the bigger front brakes, too.
> 
> Oh, and for price point comparison, we paid 24,300 for our brand-new 2012 SE with RSE.


Have you priced the Honda... I agree it's a very good van but the price is astronomical when I bought mine the Honda was a good 10,000$ more for the same thing


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## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

I might be one of the few that, without reservation, would buy my Routan again. I love the van, price cannot be beat, and the looks are great with plenty of great quality options. Like all vehicles, there are the good and the bad; including the Honda and Toyota. There are trade offs and brake problems have plagued Hondas for some time. You will find problems with each of them. And you will find some have better track records than the Routan, but at a very significant price sometimes for very inexpensive problems, such as brakes. The only problem that I have had and which I am disappointed in, is the brakes. So I saved about $10k on what I feel is a nicer looking van, but I have had to spend $600.00 to buy quality rotors and pads. No brainer for me.

As to your goal, you should if you don't, know that the Routan is built by Chrysler. Has plenty of VW flavor though and some good upgrades that Chrysler's products don't have. As to room, I never thought in a million years I would drive a van and like it. I love it. You can't beat the room, but I have four kids, so I don't know if this is the same issue you have. If I had two kids, I might look at another TDI option that gets really good mileage. Finally, I agree I think the Routan looks great. I would buy another today if the price was right.

That gets me to what would I do differently now that I have owned a 2010 SEL for about three years. I would get an SEL Premium. I love options. My family and I spend a lot of time on the road and we love having everything we can. I regret not getting a Premium. I would get a 2012 and ensure it has the larger brakes. And finally, if possible, I would buy new or very close to new. Free service, peace of mind and there were amazing deals that made buying new worth it. At the minimum, get the towing kit, NAV, two DVD screens, leather, 2012.


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## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

Ipfreely49 said:


> I have a 2011 with over 60000 miles and going strong. Getting ready to do brakes for the first time. Read the many posts for more info on that. The only issue I had was at 50000 and a transmission seal went out that was covered under the power train warranty. Still getting 26 city mpg without any problem. Lots of power and comfort to haul the family and a trailer around. I have the SE with the rear seat entertainment RSE it had dual DVD players and screens for the kiddos help lots with road trips. AC is strong.


I thought I would make a comment that I think it's great that you are like the only person who has had brakes last 60000 miles. Really amazing. But I have to assume that since you get 26 city mpg, which is also crazy good, you drive ... conservatively. Probably not how most people drive to achieve those stats. When you decide to sell your Routan, you need to get a premium. I can only imagine it will look and drive like new. I had a Durango that I tried to drive ultra conservative for about two weeks to see if I could get better mileage than my wife. It about killed me. She was getting 11mpg, I was able to get up to 17mpg, unheard of, but at the cost of my sanity and a lot of middle fingers. I gave up and bought a Jetta TDI.


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## Ipfreely49 (Jul 20, 2011)

Steveaut said:


> I thought I would make a comment that I think it's great that you are like the only person who has had brakes last 60000 miles. Really amazing. But I have to assume that since you get 26 city mpg, which is also crazy good, you drive ... conservatively. Probably not how most people drive to achieve those stats. When you decide to sell your Routan, you need to get a premium. I can only imagine it will look and drive like new. I had a Durango that I tried to drive ultra conservative for about two weeks to see if I could get better mileage than my wife. It about killed me. She was getting 11mpg, I was able to get up to 17mpg, unheard of, but at the cost of my sanity and a lot of middle fingers. I gave up and bought a Jetta TDI.



Thanks Steve. I don't really drive that conservatively. I do however not ever ever use the Eco mode. That thing is crap. I also don't use the cruise control much. If I drive normal in pure stop and go city get 23-24 but 24-26 average is normal. In pure highway road trips we get 27-28mpg at 70mph. 

So when I pulled the brakes yesterday the front had plenty life left. At least another 20k miles. The rears were completly toast on the verge of metal on metal. Maybe 1-2mm of pad left. 

I too love this van. I never thought I would buy a minivan. I went to the VW dealer to buy a Golf or Jetta TDI and they showed me this van for the same 26k$ that the Golf TDI was and 2k$ cheaper than the Jetta with way more features and the room and the dual DVD I drove it and liked it. 

I would buy it again in a heartbeat. I would however have liked stow and go seats rather than the removable ones. I spend more time removing and installing the spare captains chairs than I would like too.


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## 97vr6blu (May 7, 2008)

Ipfreely49 said:


> Have you priced the Honda... I agree it's a very good van but the price is astronomical when I bought mine the Honda was a good 10,000$ more for the same thing


Yes, I have. Hence the reason I stated we went with the Routan because it was so much cheaper. It still doesn't change the fact the Honda is a far superior van and will be more reliable and hold it's value better. I just can't afford one. 

You also may want to calculate your in-town mileage using mileage divided by gallons used. There's simply NO WAY you're getting 26mpg city. It's pretty much IMPOSSIBRU.


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## Ipfreely49 (Jul 20, 2011)

Ipfreely49 said:


> Thanks Steve. I don't really drive that conservatively. I do however not ever ever use the Eco mode. That thing is crap. I also don't use the cruise control much. If I drive normal in pure stop and go city get 23-24 but 24-26 average is normal. In pure highway road trips we get 27-28mpg at 70mph.
> 
> So when I pulled the brakes yesterday the front had plenty life left. At least another 20k miles. The rears were completly toast on the verge of metal on metal. Maybe 1-2mm of pad left.
> 
> ...



I recently got married and my new wife spends all the time driving the kids around and running the errands I ended up with her car a horrible PT Cruiser which I got to trade on a Chevy cruze last month and absolutely love it. Although I wish I could have afforded the diesel version. The Cruze is way nicer than the golf or Jetta. The gas version gets me 34mpg on a regular basis with a high of 40mpg they have the Eco and diesel versions getting more than 50mpg with manual transmissions.


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## CDJackson (Feb 28, 2013)

My wife and I went through the same Odyssey versus Routan calculation. It basically came down to price--the Routan was simply the better value. We paid $23,500 for a certified 2012 SE with RSE & Nav that had just 6,000 miles. A similarly-equipped Odyssey was at least $10,000 more. You have to run the numbers out over time, though, since the Routan has a much steeper depreciation curve than the Odyssey. If you're only planning to keep the vehicle for a few years, there might not be a huge difference in cost. If you keep the van a long time, though, the Routan is clearly the better value.

I definitely recommend purchasing a 2012 (or, at least, nothing older than 2011). The vans got a major powertrain upgrade in 2011 and all the brakes at all four wheels were SIGNIFICANTLY upsized by 2012 (this may have happened in 2011--I'm not sure). I had a chance to see a 2010 parked next to a 2012 on the dealer lot just this past weekend--the difference in brake size between the two was almost comical. I can't believe the early model Routans had such tiny brakes. You will see that there is a huge jump in price on the used market between 2010s and 2011s. There is a reason for that price gap.

I ditto the comment above about fuel economy. There is simply no way anyone is getting 26 mpg city mileage in this vehicle (unless they are using hypermiling tactics). The trip computer does not calculate mileage accurately and you cannot rely on it to tell you what mileage you're getting--you have to do the math at the pump. The 2012 Routan is EPA-rated 17 mpg city/25 mpg highway, and that is about what you should expect.


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## Ipfreely49 (Jul 20, 2011)

Ok you guys got me... I don't get 26mpg city... It's really 25.8 and it is calculated at the pump. I don't hyper mile in the van just drive easy. If I romp on it it's closer to 23 and I darn near want to bang my head in the wall when it dips to 21. :banghead:

Last summer on a pure highway trip we did get 27.8mpg over 150 miles on the highway between Houston and Austin. Going between 65 and 70mph. 

According to the reports here there is no way I should have gotten more than 60000 miles on my brakes but I did. :laugh:

Next you will tell me that I couldn't possible have gotten 60000 miles out of my factory tires... :screwy:


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## Artem (Dec 26, 2012)

I'm getting 22.5mpg hwy but I drive fast and often keep the van in 5th gear to prevent engine from 6th gear 1500rpm torture when climbing even the lightest hills.

In the city driving cycle my average is about 15mpg but again I don't mind heavy acceleration. 
I look at it like this: I may have spent $1 more on gas but I have arrived at my destination 10 minutes earlier than the 26mpg guy.


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## 97vr6blu (May 7, 2008)

Ipfreely49 said:


> Ok you guys got me... I don't get 26mpg city... It's really 25.8 and it is calculated at the pump. I don't hyper mile in the van just drive easy. If I romp on it it's closer to 23 and I darn near want to bang my head in the wall when it dips to 21. :banghead:
> 
> Last summer on a pure highway trip we did get 27.8mpg over 150 miles on the highway between Houston and Austin. Going between 65 and 70mph.
> 
> ...


Out of EVERY Routan owner, you are the ONLY one getting that kind of gas mileage in the city cycle. I just don't see how ALL of us aren't coming close to that figure, but somehow, you are WAY above the EPA ratings. 

Seems real strange you're the only one in the nation getting that kind of mileage. Maybe your odometer is jacked up and you really only got 40k out of those original brakes and tires. :laugh:


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## Artem (Dec 26, 2012)

what if he rides some lowrider 13" wheels, that would explain the inflated mileage.


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## Ipfreely49 (Jul 20, 2011)

Hey buddy those are 12" with gold spokesand spinners....

I'd believe that the electronic odometer could be flawed. 60000 miles in 24months. Seems a little high to me


But seriously I probably am not in true city as y'all are since I live near Austin and commute in and out. The roads are almost all 55-60mph limits and I commute early morning and late evening with lighter traffic so I almost never sit in stop and go traffic. For sure in stop and go i see 18-20 but for a full tank average it will pick up to 23-24. 

I also don't use the worthless Eco mode. The first two month I tried that thing out and saw the 20mpg y'all are talking about. Not using it and not using cruise I do much better. 

Fwiw my wife gets about 23 average with more city cycle like driving taking the kids to and from there stuff.


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## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

You guys that have the 3.6 motor probably do get better mileage on the highway; city driving less of a difference I suspect. I have the 4.0 so not entirely a fair comparison. I get 17-20 around here, not extreme city driving by any definition, mostly highway. Regarding tires, I did pretty well on that front. I got about 40k on my tires. Not bad to me. A little better would be nice. Brakes, not even close.

Look, I suspect this, you can get 60k out of tires and brakes and get 26mpg if you are driving mostly freeway and easy at that. Then it is completely possible. I can greatly improve my mileage if I take a trip and don't get on it. And obviously brakes don't get used much and tires wear faster with braking due to constant changes in friction from stop and go traffic and turning which causes a loss of energy as well. Simply put, I believe you get what you are telling us, just a different driving style and a lot of freeway is my guess. Definitions of city and freeway driving, hyper mileage, etcetera, will differ from one person to the next. All things being equal, most people will never achieve your numbers.


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## Ipfreely49 (Jul 20, 2011)

Hi Steve, I had a 2008 Chrysler Pacifica with the 3.8 before this and couldn't do better than 20-21 and usually averaged 18-19 so I agree this 3.6 is pretty fuel thrifty compared to the earlier engines. 

I fully believe that if I lived in a neighbor hood in town and worked in town I probably would be closer to yalls numbers. 

My commute takes me across town and I do go through many stoplights and that affects things. But the first half my commute is highway. 

Now I can tell you that the Eco mode was devastating to my mpg the lugging then harsh downshift and over revving at any little hill or acceleration just caused more gas usage than it could possible save. Maybe in a flatter true urban enviroment it would work out but around Austin it was useless. 

We live outside town and drive 20,000 miles a year per vehicle at least and so when the Pacifica fell apart at 90,000 and I bought the van I vowed to be very gentle with it and try to get as much out of it as possible or at least pay it off before it fell apart. I just can't afford to be in another upside down loan on a vehicle that's not safe for my kids to get around in.


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## GroceryGetter82 (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks everyone for posting! I haven't been thinking about a new vehicle due to my wife being laid off for being pregnant (long story) 
I have a few freelance job (in addition to my full-time position) offers coming in so buy a new vehicle for my soon to be family of 4 might be an option soon. 

Still love the idea of buying another VW product but I guess we will test drive a bunch of different cars and see which one is best for us. 

Cheers :beer:


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## sladethesleeper (Oct 28, 2011)

Gotta love life.

Sorry for the late chime in. My background, I'm a bit of a gear head. I build classic cars for a hobby. I usually drive a 65 mustang convertible to work. However my 'daily' drivers tend to be very utilitarian. Explorers, Volvos, 1/2 Pick ups. The Routan is that...very utilitarian. I've shoved so much crap into the back it's been impressive. Now that I put a hitch on it...so much the better.

I'm still on the fence about my Dodge Routan. I like the features and I do drive the minivan daily (wife gets to drive the Mini Cooper). We just recently moved from Boston to Houston and I had the minivan packed solid and towing a 5'x8' uhaul trailer that was packed to the gills. Basically things we didn't want on the moving truck. Forced it to stay in 5th on the highway and it towed like a charm. I wish I had had time to install the airbags, but overall not bad. Managed around 18MPG at the pump.

Now, I've never gotten north of 25 MPG on the highway, ever. Sure, the computer tells me 27, but using the pump, it's always 2MPG less than the computer. I've tried different gas stations (big name, mom and pop, etc), driving like a granny, driving like a mad man, using 5th and not 6th. Never can break 25 MPG when I go 65-70MPH. Does that bother me? Not really. I wish the computer was more accurate as my previous volvo's computer was dead on money accurate. Now on a comparison, I went from driving an S70 T5 volvo that would average 24MPG on my daily commute (when in New England).  The Routan got around 23MPG on the same commute. In my book not bad giving that the Routan is obviously more of a brick then the turbo brick was.

Transmission...not happy with it. It's a Doctor Jekyl and Mr. Hyde transmission. Sometimes it is smooth as silk on shifts. Other times, it feels like when you try to shift a stick shift without using the clutch at all. I've come to complete stops (much more noticeable on hard stops) where it sounds like the transmission just dropped out of the car. Noticeable clunk and sound. Unfortunately for me, not consistently reproducible yet for me to show the dealer. my 1991 explorer's transmission shifted smoother than this junk box did, even at 300k miles (well, 150k on the first rebuild).

And 6th gear? Honestly it should be removed from the transmission altogether. Absolutely useless. Well, I take that back...useless anywhere where even a small hill is on the highway. When in New England, many times I put it in 5th when driving on 95 through RI, CT, NY, MA...well anywhere really. The only time I haven't is now that I've moved to Houston where there is practically no terrain to cause a change in elevation. What really bothers me is less the uselessness of 6th, but the extremely poor programming of the transmission, especially if you are using cruise control Going up a small hill in Rhode Island at 70MPH, this was the typical response. 70-69-68-67-66-65 then mega downshift, not to 5th, but to 4th with the engine reving to 3500+ RPM to race back to 70. What happened to 5th? And these were relatively minor grade (at least in my book) hills. I did some testing before on some out and back trips. I got practically the same mileage in 5th as 6th, without the annoying downshifts and reving of the engine. So I tended to drive in 5th as a result. the ratio of 6th gear is completely useless for a vehicle this size at the power band of the duratec engine. It may be fine for the Nitro or Jeep Liberty which is a bit lighter on the scale, but useless in the Routan that needs to be closer to the torque band.

Tires. Ditch the stock Michelin eco tires that generally come on these. Horrid traction even in the best of conditions. It's almost embarrassing to have the tires squeal as you pull out, even if you don't do it in a hurry. They suck in the rain. Suck in the snow. Suck when it's cold, suck when it's hot. They are loud going down the road. I can honestly say I don't miss the .1MPG they may have been saving me. 

Now all that said, would I buy it again. Yes.

Sure, I'd love to have gotten the Odyssey. Far and away a better vehicle. But that's like comparing a Dodge Colt to a Honda Accord. But I wasn't willing to spend $36k on a box with wheels. I much preferred my $25k price tag. Sure, my resale won't be high, but I tend to buy cars and drive them until they are worthless anyways. If you worry about resale in 4 years, don't buy this car. My 91 Explorer I bought with 40k miles and drove it to 320k miles. My 98 Volvo, bought at 40k miles, drove to 250k miles. My 04 Silverado, bought at 60k miles, still using it at 330k miles. but this is why my wife hates car shopping with me. It literally takes me a year to find a car I want because it has to be perfect.

Now I do have reservations that the Routan may not last much beyond 100k, or 150k, which means another 3-4 years for me (averaging 25k a year right now). I do have concerns over the transmission, but with the $11k I saved over the honda, I can replace that transmission 3 times and still come out ahead. 

It has enough power to carry heavy loads and tow within (or slightly beyond) rated capacity. I've hooked up car trailers and towed short distances with it. I've towed moving trailers for long distances. However, if you are towing trailers without a brake monitor or without inertia braking systems, give your self a LOT of room. The brakes are slightly underpowered in my opinion, even when it's not loaded. So if you plan to do much towing, get a brake monitor or only tow with inertia braking trailers (like the larger uhauls have, like the 6'x12' versions). The minivan needs help for braking. However, the minivan was generally heavy enough with enough wheelbase to avoid the trailer controlling the minivan on rough pavement or in high winds. I've been generally happy with the towing ability (so long as you put it into 5th gear). 

I'm at 35k now on the clock and brakes are holding up just fine. I measure them prior to bringing it into service everytime, just to know. Probably around 50k they'll need work. But easy enough to do in the driveway.

It does okay in the snow. Again, it's not my volvo or my pickup. But if you know how to handle a FWD properly in the snow (which unfortunately most people don't) it does okay. However I do recommend if you find yourself driving in snow frequently (like New England) to get a set of snow tires for it. Works wonders.

Basically it does it's job. Hauls the family places. Has the entertainment system and Nav. Power doors and liftgate (which I've grown to love with the random downpours in Houston). I can go places and if I find something large I want to buy and bring home, most times it fits. It's like have twice the cargo room as my explorer, with 30% better mileage. 

Only regret...wish I splurged on the SEL vice the SE. Why? I miss my automatic climate control. I hate fiddling with dials to get it to the right temp. I want the car to stay at 70, and forget about it.

Also, get the Lockpick from ecoastaltech or see if you can have your dealer 'forget' to lock the nav input. It's annoying that I can't see where a video is and start it up for the back seat or that my wife can't input an address while the car is moving, even from the passenger seat. Until I got the lock pick, meant I had to preprogram some new destinations prior to leave our house.


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## fattymatty20 (Aug 21, 2013)

My dash mileage from a 750 mile round trip from the Balt/Wash metro area to the Outer Banks in NC, around town for a week (maybe 50 miles) then back. I reset it just before I left. I had the cruise control on almost the whole way to and from and had it set ~5mph above posted speed in almost completely clear roads. I know the dash always lies to me but this is still pretty encouraging.


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## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

Wow, that's crazy mileage. I looked at getting a Q7 or Toureg TDI just to get that type of mileage, but with substantial cost. 

I can only get that type of mileage downhill and behind a tow truck.


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## GroceryGetter82 (Apr 6, 2012)

I just pull the trigger on a 2012 SE with Nav-RSE and so far I love it! It had 9,987 miles on it when I picked it up this morning. As stated above I do not like the Michelin tires that came in the car, I might put some better tires on it before the winter. 
Thanks for posting in this thread I appreciated it! 
I will post some pictures once it stops raining and I can clean it up. 
Of you want to please feel free to post pictures of your Routans.


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## CDJackson (Feb 28, 2013)

Our trip computer showed exactly the same mileage on our trip from DC to the Outer Banks ... 29-point-something mpg. Don't believe it. The actual mileage at the pump: 26.2 mpg. That trip computer is worthless. Car & Driver had an article a few months back in which they showed that trip computers in several different vehicles were ALWAYS wrong and ALWAYS wrong on the high side (i.e., showing better mileage than the vehicles actually got). The error tended to be small, but persistent.

I can't say that I'm disappointed in the mileage on the Routan, though. It's pretty much in line with its 17/25 EPA estimate.


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## sladethesleeper (Oct 28, 2011)

Don't trust the trip computer. Mine routinely says 27-29MPG with highway driving at 75MPH. But when I've checked it at the pump (miles/gallons) I'm consistantly 10% less than indicated. But now that I know it's about 10% high, I just adjust for it. 

I'm not unhappy with the mileage. Hurtling a huge brick through the air at 75MPH and managing 25MPG is fine with me. My 91 explorer got 20 on a good day in its prime. My 98 volvo wagon got 28. 25MPG is just fine for me. Gotta put a lot of miles on it to make up the price difference to the higher mileage Odyssey. 

Trust me, I love it. It suits its purpose perfectly. Family truckster with lots of features for a reasonable price.  If I can get 150k miles out of my 2011 (about 5 more years) I'll be thrilled. I've very utilitarian minded for my daily driven car. I love having the room. Love sitting up a little higher. Love that we can go somewhere and if we find something we want to buy, most times it'll fit in the back pretty easily. Given the same scenario again I'd buy it again.

I have a 65 mustang convertible in the garage for my fun car.


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