# Passat starting problem



## ktbstudio (May 5, 2006)

Hy, there is a litle question about a vw passat, make 2006, engine code BKC, 1.9 litre Tdi.
The problem is:
The car starts wery bad, sometimes it starts at the 3'th cranking, other times starts for the first cranking. When the engine is running at idle, it changes the sound of the engine, it hears a little knocking. When i press the acceleration above 2500 rpm, the engine stops. It feels like the engine is to be suffocate.
Here is a auto scan resoult:

Tuesday,15,April,2008,18:28:30:17842
VCDS Version: Beta 803.3
Data version: 20080317
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chassis Type: 3C0
Scan: 01 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 52 53 56 62 72 77 7D
VIN: WVWZZZ3CZ6P023371 Mileage: 115980km/72066miles
00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: Malfunction 0010
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
25-Immobilizer -- Status: Malfunction 0010
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door,Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
77-Telephone -- Status: OK 0000
7D-Aux. Heat -- Status: OK 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 03G-906-016-BKC.lbl
Part No SW: 03G 906 021 AN HW: 028 101 208 5
Component: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 7004 
Revision: --H01--- Serial number: VWZCZ000000000
Coding: 0000071
Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
2 Faults Found:
005659 - Glowplug for Cylinder 2 (Q11): Open Circuit 
P161B - 000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00110000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 6
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 11.48 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Temperature: 1.8°C
Bin. Bits: 00110000
005658 - Glowplug for Cylinder 1 (Q10): Open Circuit 
P161A - 000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00110000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1155 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 14.36 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Temperature: 18.9°C
Bin. Bits: 10110000
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 3C0-614-095.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 614 095 M HW: 3C0 614 095 M
Component: ESP 440 C2 H015 0001 
Revision: H015 Serial number: 0657567130
Coding: 0013569
Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
1 Fault Found:
02839 - Wake-Up Line from Control Module for Electrical Parking Brake 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 6
Fault Frequency: 4
Reset counter: 81
Time Indication: 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3C0-907-044.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 907 044 Q HW: 3C0 907 044 Q
Component: ClimatronicPQ46 042 0202 
Revision: 00042004 Serial number: 00000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
1 Fault Found:
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285) 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 64
Mileage: 169994 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2007.11.29
Time: 16:48:16

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Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3C0-937-049-23-H.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 937 049 E HW: 3C0 937 049 E
Component: Bordnetz-SG H37 1002 
Revision: 00H37000 Serial number: 00000001855675
Coding: E1888F0700041A00000A00000F00000000095D435C
Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
Part No: 3C1 955 119 
Component: Wischer VW461 012 0503 
Coding: 00065493
Shop #: WSC 00028 
Part No: 1K0 955 559 R
Component: RegenLichtSens 010 1010 
Coding: 00208933
Shop #: WSC 00028 
1 Fault Found:
01800 - Light Switch (E1) 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 64
Mileage: 115103 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2007.11.29
Time: 06:10:00
Freeze Frame:
ON 
Voltage: 13.95 V
ON 
ON 
OFF 
OFF 
OFF 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 3C0-909-605.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 909 605 C HW: 3C0 909 605 C
Component: 03 AIRBAG VW8 028 2421 
Revision: 07028000 Serial number: 0038XSB8X3KI 
Coding: 0012339
Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 3C0-953-549.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 953 549 A HW: 3C0 953 549 A
Component: Lenksäulenmodul 005 0010 
Revision: 00005000 Serial number: 3C5953507C 
Coding: 0000013
Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3C0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 920 870 G HW: 3C0 920 870 G
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VD1 3938 
Revision: X0031000 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 0007105
Shop #: WSC 26972 143 52138
1 Fault Found:
00771 - Fuel Level Sensor (G) 
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101010
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 6
Reset counter: 92
Mileage: 169705 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2007.11.08
Time: 13:39:20

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 3C0-907-530.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 907 530 C HW: 3C0 907 951 A
Component: Gateway 007 0040 
Revision: 00007000 Serial number: 0700C055170CD1
Coding: 3DFD2C04C61002
Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
1 Fault Found:
00381 - Databus Instrument Cluster 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 1
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 64

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 3C0-959-433-25.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 959 433 H HW: 3C0 959 433 H
Component: IMMO 038 0364 
Revision: 00038000 Serial number: VWZCZ000000000
Shop #: WSC 131071 1023 2097151
Part No: 3C0 905 861 A
Component: ELV 021 0350
3C0905861A ELV 021 0350 
2 Faults Found:
02815 - Steering Column Lock; Supply Voltage for Locking Motor 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 4
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 54
Mileage: 169704 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2007.11.07
Time: 09:54:33
02817 - Steering Column Lock; Enabling Wire from Steering Wheel Electronics 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 4
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 54
Mileage: 169704 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2007.11.07
Time: 09:54:33

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver Labels: 1K0-959-701-MIN2.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 701 K
Component: Tuer-SG 024 2359 
Coding: 0000181
Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist Labels: 1Kx-909-14x.lbl
Part No: 1K1 909 144 H
Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.12 1502 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3C0-959-433-46.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 959 433 H HW: 3C0 959 433 H
Component: KSG PQ46 ELV 038 0453 
Revision: 00038000 Serial number: VWZCZ000000000
Coding: 00910A0801860E763804941570084F0E703C00
Shop #: WSC 26972 143 07448
Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H03 1301
Component: NGS n.mounted 
Component: IRUE n.mounted 
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. Labels: 1K0-959-702-MIN2.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 702 K
Component: Tuer-SG 024 2359 
Coding: 0000180
Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 53: Parking Brake Labels: 3C0-907-801.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 907 801 B HW: 3C0 907 801 B
Component: EPB VC8HC001 013 0001 
Revision: 013 
Coding: 0000011
Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 1K0-035-1xx-56.lbl
Part No: 1K0 035 186 P
Component: Radio GR0 015 0019 
Revision: 0001503S Serial number: VWZ2Z2E1177343
Coding: 0022200
Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door,Rear Left Labels: 1K0-959-703-GEN2.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 703 F
Component: Tuer-SG 021 2417 
Coding: 0000144
Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right Labels: 1K0-959-704-GEN2.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 704 F
Component: Tuer-SG 021 2417 
Coding: 0000144
Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 77: Telephone Labels: 3C0-035-729.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 035 729 E HW: 3C0 035 729 C
Component: Telefon 6009 
Revision: 00008000 Serial number: 0000000628971
Coding: 0016123
Shop #: WSC 26972 143 52138
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 7D: Aux. Heat Labels: 1K0-963-235.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 963 235 E HW: 1K0 963 235 E
Component: PTC-Element 0404 
Revision: 00800000 Serial number: 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
No fault code found.
End ---------------------------------------------------------------------
At channel 1 the two foults are resolved, i changed the glow plugs. The fuel filter is changed too. I cleaned the intake manifold and the egr valve but nothing cahnges.
One more thing, when the engine is running at idle, at the end of the exhaust it hears a sound like a blow.
Thanks for view.


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: Passat starting problem (ktbstudio)*

On the 2.0l TDI's there has been a known issue with the glow time control modules with the supplier code WLO. Replacing it should solve the issue and in theory you should have the same module installed.


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## ktbstudio (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Passat starting problem (Theresias)*

Can the glow time control module affect the running of the engine after the engine has been started?


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## ktbstudio (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Passat starting problem (ktbstudio)*

I think the problem comes from the tandem pump.
Everything else is ok and no faults are stored.
What do you think?


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: Passat starting problem (ktbstudio)*

The glow plug system should not cause problems when the car is warm and running, but the starting issues are most likely caused by that. My next step would be updating the ECU to the latest available software which is 03G-906-021-DP @ 7870.
Then check if all problems are gone and if not, start with describing the whole issue with the engine shutting off more detailed. Personally I would not think this is related to the tandem pump based on what you have written so far...


_Modified by Theresias at 5:11 PM 4-19-2008_


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## ktbstudio (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Passat starting problem (Theresias)*

Hy, i found something, i clamped off the return hose between fuel filter and tandem pump, using hose clamp, and tadaaa, the engine started and didn't stopped after acceleration. But at idle, when i removed the hose clamp, the 
engine stops imediately.
What do you think, tandem pump or the o rings at the unit injectors cause this. I found something about it on elsa.


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: Passat starting problem (ktbstudio)*

Did you actually read my last reply?








If this would be related to the injectors you should see a noticable difference between the cylinders when logging MVB 013, 018 and 023.


_Modified by Theresias at 4:00 PM 4-20-2008_


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## ktbstudio (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Passat starting problem (Theresias)*

Theresias, here is a log file from the mvb 13, 18 and 23.

Address 01: Engine (03G 906 021 AN)
10:46:54 Group 013: Idle Stabilization (Injection Quantity Deviation)
2.99 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 1
-2.54 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 2
-2.02 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 3
-0.71 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 4
10:46:54 Group 018: Injector Status
0.0 Injector Status Cylinder 1
0.0 Injector Status Cylinder 2
0.0 Injector Status Cylinder 3
0.0 Injector Status Cylinder 4
10:46:54 Group 023: Injector Switch Time Deviation
-116.0 Switch Time Deviat. Cylinder 1
-124.0 Switch Time Deviat. Cylinder 2
-103.0 Switch Time Deviat. Cylinder 3
-102.0 Switch Time Deviat. Cylinder 4

I understand what you wrote for me, but there is a little problem, here can't be done the ecu refresh. Our vw dealer said, they do for about 400 euro, and the car owners don't want to pay so much.


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: Passat starting problem (ktbstudio)*

Since the car was built in 06/2005 it is very likely out of warranty unless the owner decided to buy the extended warranty. Did he? An ECU update takes about 1-2 hours absolute maximum, so the 400 EUR is WAY too much. Sooner or later you may want to talk to them or find another dealer who is able to perform such updates, you will run into this problem again - and a "no can't do that will not fix cars".
The data you supplied was supposedly taken with the engine running, sadly it is only a snapshot and not a real (continuous) log. We do see a quantity deviation for cylinder 1, have you swapped for example the cylinder 1 injector with the one from cylinder 2 to see if the deviation moves too?


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## ktbstudio (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Passat starting problem (Theresias)*

The owner didn't have the extended warranty. You have right about the ecu update.
I did not swapped the unit injectors becouse before i connect vag-com again and saw this:
Address 01: Engine (03G 906 021 AN)
11:15:49 Group 013: Idle Stabilization (Injection Quantity Deviation)
-3.01 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 1
-0.54 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 2
0.52 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 3
2.99 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 4
11:15:49 Group 018: Injector Status
128.0 Injector Status Cylinder 1
128.0 Injector Status Cylinder 2
128.0 Injector Status Cylinder 3
128.0 Injector Status Cylinder 4
11:15:49 Group 023: Injector Switch Time Deviation
-73.0 Switch Time Deviat. Cylinder 1
-96.0 Switch Time Deviat. Cylinder 2
-91.0 Switch Time Deviat. Cylinder 3
-80.0 Switch Time Deviat. Cylinder 4
And for a second time:
-3.01 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 1
2.99 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 2
2.99 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 3
-3.01 mg/str Injection Quantity Deviation Cyl. 4
Do you see the diference? Thats why i don't swap the unit injectors.
The last save was taken one second before when the engine stops. One more thing, the actual injection quantity at mvb 001 was about 14-16 mg/stroke.
That's too much, i think.


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: Passat starting problem (ktbstudio)*

Snapshots (even with the engine running) are not really helpful, please perform a real log and send/post the log file.


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## ktbstudio (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Passat starting problem (Theresias)*

Here is a log file, http://www.ktbstudio.eu/test/L...3.CSV
You can see that the engine is running at idle, then i press the acceleration 2 times then the engine starts to run rough and then stops.


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## ktbstudio (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Passat starting problem (ktbstudio)*

Hello, i found one more thing about the starting problem. I measured the pressure of the tandem pump, after a lot of cranking the car starts and the gouge measures 0.5 bar at idle, i measured another pdtdi tandem pump at a Vw Golf, engine code Atd, the pressure was 3 bar at idle.
I think this is the cause of start problem, and the cause of engine stop after accelerating. 
What do you say Theresias?


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