# How to stop fresh air (outside air) from entering the cabin?



## carlosMIA (Apr 30, 2006)

How do you avoid air (fresh??) thru closed vents? I switched the a/c off and cold air was coming in thru the closed vents. Then I turned the fan on, the vents open and I put it in Economy with the air coming from the upper panel (windshield), then shut off the fan and the vents closed. But cold air was still coming by the "closed" vents. How do you avoid that?


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: AIR COMING IN THRU CLOSED VENTS (carlosMIA)*

Hi Carlos,
I think, but I'm not sure, that if you engage the recirculate button *before *turning off the fan (thus the climate control system) that fresh air will be prevented from entering the cabin.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Thats right, just put it on recirculation mode.
If you don't want to start the compressor, press recirculation before you start the engine. then trun the climate control off. Now you can start the engine.


_Modified by Kuwaity at 9:07 AM 2-2-2009_


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: AIR COMING IN THRU CLOSED VENTS (carlosMIA)*

Carlos:
I haven't tried what REMREM states but I experience the same thing. Sometimes I want ALL air off. But when the air is off, the recirculate button isn't available. Thus there is always some air entering the vehicle.
I found that if I put the temperature on something comfortable then cut off the fan, it will send that temperature air flowing through the vent. I was told in a post last year that turning the air off completely wan't possible (strange).
I'm going to try REMREM's suggestion but if you beat me to it...let me know if it works.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: AIR COMING IN THRU CLOSED VENTS (carlosMIA)*

I'm going to try it later today too, to see if my suggestion is valid. However, I do remember reading somewhere that there is some safety requirment that won't let car makers completely deprive the cabin of a little bit of fresh air, even when in recirculate mode. I think they might want to avoid CO2 build-up that might make the driver and passengers pass out(?), or maybe they just want to avoid build up of body odors


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: AIR COMING IN THRU CLOSED VENTS (remrem)*

RemRem someone last year in my post said that too. But here's what I don't understand. In all my other cars, Mercedes, Acura, Nissan etc. You could cut off the outside air. So why is the VW some different?
Now maybe in my other cars the air wasn't completely cut off...maybe there was some air seeping in somewhere. But at least it wasn't on my feet or in my face. If there was air creeping it must have been creeping in somewhere that wasn't directly pointed at me. In the VW I feel the air at my feet even though the air is off. Whatever temperature I last had on my climate control is the temp I feel coming on under the dash (floor area). I've learned to keep climate control at a calm 73 all the time any I'm comfortable. 
Let me know what you find!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: AIR COMING IN THRU CLOSED VENTS (remrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_...I do remember reading somewhere that there is some safety requirement that won't let car makers completely deprive the cabin of a little bit of fresh air, even when in recirculate mode. 

That is correct. The primary motivation for always letting in a little bit of fresh air is to avoid having all the windows fog up (from water vapour caused by driver and passenger respiration). It's not an issue of carbon dioxide.
If you are over 50 years of age, you can probably remember driving in your parents 1950s or 1960s car in the winter, and the inside of all the windows fogging up like a steam bath. That rarely happens anymore, regardless of the ignorance of the driver about proper operation of the defrost and heating system controls.
Michael


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: AIR COMING IN THRU CLOSED VENTS (derrickonline)*

Because it was about 70F degrees here today, it was not the ideal environment to perform this test, but it sure was a beautiful day!
Anwyay, this afternoon I tested my theory and activated the recirculate switch before turning the fan off (i.e. turning off the climate control system), and it did seem to stop the flow of outside air into the cabin, or at least dramatically reduce it.
Then, in addition  to engaging the recirculate function I also tried manually _deselecting_ all 3 vent controls (up arrows, sideways arrows, and down arrows) before turning off the fan, but I couldn't tell if that made any difference.
One other thing I noticed was that the switch directly beneath the clock (which I believe we've read in other posts regulates the relative air temperature between the upper and lower vents) *remains active * even when the climate control system is completely off. I don't know if it was actually doing anything, but the indicator lights still cycled through the red and blue led displays. Perhaps for those of you in colder climates you may discern some effect.
As for Kuwaity's comment about turning off the compressor, I was under the impression that that was what the "Econ" setting was for, and didn't think the recirculate button had any relation to the compressor. Is it possible that his Phaeton is set-up differently in this respect because it is a ROW?
Anyway, give the above a try guys and let us know if any of it helps.


_Modified by remrem at 8:41 PM 2-2-2009_


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: AIR COMING IN THRU CLOSED VENTS (remrem)*

derrickonline
In most cars you could turn on the recirculation even when the ac is off. It’s a good feature. But not all VW like this, In my Jetta, if you turn the climatronic off, no air will get inside regardless of the previous recirculation status.
We solved this problem in the Phaeton, but I really miss this feature in my B6 Passat. I can’t block the air no matter what I do. I just do one little trick, turn on ECON, turn on recirculation, put the blower to its lowest speed and select a temperature just below the outside temp., in this way I can enjoy the sunroof without a misty warm air from the vents 

remrem
I meant that if you don’t wish to start the compressor then turn it off in few second (time to push the recirculation then turn the system off), just follow our suggested sequence but don’t start the engine before turning the system off. 
You can select ECON while engine is running but it will propably run the comp. when you select recirculation (I did not tried this in the phaeton, but in most cars it will run).
I just hate starting the A/c compressor and turn it off again, maybe it’s just me, but I hate doing that!!


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## mhoepfin (Dec 20, 2007)

Hey guys, I gotta ask this question.. Why?


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: (mhoepfin)*

Thanks guys.
remrem: I drive like that all the time (no air output selected, in other words no illuminated arrow to direct air anywere). When it's selected like that, you'll feel the air at your feet more than anything.
mhoefin: Why what? You mean why do we want the air off? Sometimes it's nice outside we'll say yesterday was near 60 degrees. The day before it was 30 degrees. At 30 degrees my air was on auto at 75 degrees. The next day when it was 60 degrees I cut the air off. But I still feel 75 degree air coming through the vents beneath the dash (under the dash) and I just want to enjoy the fresh air, not the air blasting to my feet through the vents that I assumed OFF meant OFF which it doesn't really. So now I'm forced to always keep climate contol on at a comfortable temperature, or adjust the temp then cut the climate control off (therefore making the air seeping through the vents a comfortable temp) versus burning my feet off when it's 60 degrees outside.


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## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: (mhoepfin)*

Here's the trick guys.
Select lowest fan speed (1 notch) and select recycle on.
next step find out which air directly bother you the most. ( for me today was the face or upper body were hot and the feet was even more) 
So then deselect the down arrow and middle and this will close the vents. while leaving the air coming out the top vent in the windshield (one you cant close).
Now just select the temp that you will like the air from outside to come in at and shut off the whole system by turning the fan left to the off position.
Now only a little bit of outside air will come in and give you fresh air and prevent fogging up to.
Now if you want to get smarter and you are alone, deselect all the arrows on your side, up left down. and select the passenger ones (whichever) to the on position and then shut off the fan.
Now the car will direct any little bit of fresh air to the passenger side and you shouldnt feel any. just remember to set a desirable temp before turning off or the vent control to HOT(red) or cool(blue).
Try and confirm by me today while waiting for service on my Phae, but you all free to try it. http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


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## carlosMIA (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: AIR COMING IN THRU CLOSED VENTS (remrem)*

Derrick, you are right. I put recycle, econ, move the the 3 switches beneath the clock to the center and turned off the fan. Very little if any air came in.


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## carlosMIA (Apr 30, 2006)

*Stopping outside air coming in*

With the cold weather in Florida I closed the ventilation and a/c but driving on the highway cold air continue to enter from the closed wooden doors and the little perforated holes in the top of the dashboard. 

No windows or sunroof were open. Then I pressed the recycle button but did not help. 

Any suggestions how to stop the external air?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Carlos: 

Nice to see you back, have not heard from you in a while. 

There is one central entry point for all outside air, that is in the middle of the car just forward of the windshield. It is possible that something might be preventing the flap there from fully closing. 

Have a look at the thread in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category) entitled Water in Cabin Footwell (Cleaning Air Intake Plenum and Sunroof Drains). There is a photo there (reproduced below) that shows the outside air intake flap. You can visually inspect it yourself for proper closing and opening if you take off the plastic panel over the air intake plenum (that process is explained on the post I referred to). 

Michael 

*Outside Air Intake (for all cabin air)*


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## carlosMIA (Apr 30, 2006)

*everything is OK, but air still comes in*

Michael, thanks for your post. I did exactly what you suggested. Everything is properly in place, opened it and there was no debris, is very clean. With the air on, those two flaps open completely and when in re-cycle mode they close very well.

So air continues to enter and for Miami standards, is cold. Any other suggestions?


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Carlos:

Yes I can agree that it has been unseasonably cold in Florida and you're 250 miles south of me.

I'm grabbing at straws but thought I might throw out something I saw on manual recirculation. It seems that if you push the recirculation button to the right of the Hazard switch, all outside air should be prevented from entering the cabin. Here's an excerpt from the Phaeton Self Study Guide on HVAC,




> ● Manual air recirculation function
> Pressing the air recirculation button in the
> row of climate controls switches the climate
> control to air recirculation mode. The air flow
> ...


It's possible that this might solve your issue. 
Another solution, and I know you're in Miami, is to turn the HVAC system on and turn the temperature up so that the air is no longer cool. I do realize your Chamber of Commerce may not allow you to mention on an international forum that you are using your heat. But who's to know.

Good luck and let us know if you find a workable solution. Keep in mind it is possible you have some flawed air flaps somewhere in the system. There are many of these and a diagnostic scan will reveal them.

Jim X


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

I have exactly the same problem. We discussed this problem earlier in some thread here in the forum.
I found the problem in the Phaeton and the B6 Passat, the good news to you is that you can prevent the air coming in the Phaeton but not in the Passat.


Simply follow my steps and you should be fine:

While your HVAC system is fully ON, push the recirculation button and wait for few secs so that the flaps can fully close. 
Now simply turn the fan speed knob to the lowest setting until the system is OFF.
At this point you should not feel any air coming from any direct or indirect vent.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi guys,

Check out this old thread where we (including you Carlos  and you Ahmad  and of course Michael ) previously discussed this subject in great detail:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...OSED-VENTS&p=54965668&viewfull=1#post54965668

Perhaps these threads should be merged and/or included in TOC? :wave:

Best regards,
Ron M.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Ron:

Great idea to merge the threads - I'll do that now.

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

carlosMIA said:


> ...I closed the ventilation and a/c but driving on the highway cold air continue to enter from the closed wooden doors and the little perforated holes in the top of the dashboard...


I think Jim kind of hit the nail on the head with his suggestion about 4 posts up.

Carlos, what you are trying to accomplish is to (basically) shut down the vehicle HVAC system, and I don't think that the HVAC system was designed with this possibility in mind. Rather than shutting the system down, just set the temperature to the desired cabin temperature (e.g. 70 degrees), then close the mid-level vents manually if they are open.

Air exits from the cabin via the two tunnels at the base of the outboard rear seats, goes through the trunk, then exits from the trunk via louvered openings that can be seen in the aft face of the spare tire well. These louvered openings are located in an area of low pressure when the vehicle is in motion, which means that you are always going to have 'negative air pressure' in the cabin if you shut down the HVAC system totally. Because of this negative air pressure, outside air will flow into the cabin via the path of least resistance. Sounds like outside air is being sucked in through the normal path that air follows (past that flap). Consider also that the flap in the front is quite intentionally located in an area subject to high pressure when the vehicle is in motion.

Michael


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

I did notice in the Self Study Programme for Phaeton HVAC a warning as follows



> The manual air recirculation mode is not
> switched off automatically. As no fresh air
> enters the vehicle interior, this function
> should not be in operation for a longer
> period.


I assume the Phaeton is so tight that with manual recirculation activated and no outside air entering the cabin, the interior air quality can become a hazard. So VW warns against continued use of manual recirculation and Michael's arguement for turning the Phaeton's HVAC on and adjusting comfort with the temperature controls is strengthened.

Jim X


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## carlosMIA (Apr 30, 2006)

Next week I have to drive on I-95 and should be cooler again. I will try all the suggestions and reply. 

I understand what Michael is saying related to HVAC, my point is the needed ventilation should come from the little perforated holes in the top of the dashboard but not from the closed small space between the wooden doors and the vents' frames. 

You will hear from me, thanks to all of you.


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## carlosMIA (Apr 30, 2006)

*Managed to stop the incoming air*

I did the following:
While the HVAC system is on, I pushed the Economy, then push the recirculation button, then with the fan speed knob I shut off the system, and the flaps closed.

No air was coming from any direct or indirect vent. 

Thanks again.


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