# Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap...



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

So last Sunday, I finally swapped out the 5th gear I purchased about a month ago that was being used as a paper weight at work 
I'll try to make a step by step (i am not good at this crap):
1. Took the wheel off








2. Removed the fender liner.
3. Drained the tranny.
4. Removed the six 11mm(







) bolts that hold the end cap.
5. Removed the bolt holding the shift fork bracket.
6. Removed the two bolts holding the shift fork and took it off.
7. Wiped of as much oil as i could of the gears.
8. Took off the big Torx bolt and washer holding the "big" gear on the left. 
9. I took off the ring and the three clips that hold/push the syncro, slid that out of the way (but i don't think it's necessary). 
10. Wiped as much oil as i could off the gear.
11. I used a propane/butane torch to heat up the gear(not the shaft!) for about a good minute.
12. I modified/grinded the hell out of the "fingers" of a gear puller, to fit it behind the gear(big one). 
13. It came off real easy with an impact(weakest setting).
14. Took torx bolt off the smaller gear on the right.
15. Heated it up for a minute too. 
16. As i went to install the puller, the gear fell off!
That's pretty much it. When i put the new gears on, I also heated them up for a minute and they went on real easy







Don't forget to fill up the tranny. I used the OEM stuff, 1.9 liters.
Driving impressions: For those of us with the 3.94 final drive, it should have been like this stock.
Just to give you an idea: My revs use to be 4500 at 100mph. Now, at 4500rpm I am right at 135mph







I couldn't believe I was cruising along at about 120mph(normal for the autobahn) and the motor wasn't screaming for help.
Not to mention the powerband is much wider in 5th. It's real nice to shift from 4th to 5th now. Actually pulls harder at higher speeds, because i am in the meat of the torque.
I am not for sure about MPG savings, but i am very curious(especially with gas prices) This is totally worth it in the sense of noise and engine friction while at higher speeds. It sounds like a completely different car in 5th. I will post MPG changes in the next week or so.
BTW I purchased the gears locally for about $230. and I can get any combo you need, just let me know. 

Adrian


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## Sid-Rage (Jun 15, 2004)

that sounds great.. thanks for the input


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## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (Sid-Rage)*

how does the car feel at 170. I know mine at 160 feels real light. Maybe its the stock suspension and H rated tire's. Who knows, its pretty scary


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*

Honestly, it feels the same after about 150mph. Everything goes by real fast







I have race springs with Stiffest Bilsteins available, so its very controllable. However, at those speeds, one little movement and you are three lanes over... 
FYI, I don't normally drive a 170mph. This was just a test to see the difference. I use the same flat strip of autobahn I always do for my tests







My hands were sweating big time, but I wasn't nervous or anything, just natural reaction i guess...


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## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

Good info.


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## spoolin turbo s (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (QuickK03Crap)*

so at 60-70 mph where are you at rpm wise


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (spoolin turbo s)*

The rpms are at [email protected] 60mph, at 70mph not sure, but I can check and post later. Keep in micd that I have the old 3.94 final drive, yours is a 3.6XX I believe...
Ad


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## spoolin turbo s (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

no mine is more like 4:10 
i have a six speed in the ole turbo s beetle
i was just curious i love my gear ratios the way they are right now............i wish first and secons were a little longer but other than that i think its perfect.......... just not for drag racing


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (spoolin turbo s)*

Gotcha... Didn't notice the "S" sorry. Yeah, i actually considered the 02M 6speed, but with my budget, the 5th swap was ~$1500 less
Adrian


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## flanders (Apr 5, 2001)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *El Romano Loco* »_The rpms are at [email protected] 60mph, at 70mph not sure, but I can check and post later. Keep in micd that I have the old 3.94 final drive, yours is a 3.6XX I believe...
Ad

ahhh...that's perfect! I still gotta get around to doing this


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (flanders)*

Just got back from a beautiful drive on the autobahn. 70mph is right at 2500rpms. 
Lovin' it!!








I can get this setup for $250 shipped. Nobody else offers it in the states...
Adrian


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## Ricky_Rockstah (Aug 3, 2003)

good to see someone doing this. I' m *VERY tempted*


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (Ricky_Rockstah)*

IMHO, It's totally worth it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Ad


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## 16vracer (Jul 12, 1999)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *El Romano Loco* »_Just got back from a beautiful drive on the autobahn. 70mph is right at 2500rpms. 
Lovin' it!!








I can get this setup for $250 shipped. Nobody else offers it in the states...
Adrian

Sweet. Sounds like a great winter time swap http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (16vracer)*

This is more of an afternoon swap. Piece of cake.


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## 16vracer (Jul 12, 1999)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_This is more of an afternoon swap. Piece of cake. 

True, but it'll be winter before I have the extra cash to do it


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (enginerd)*

lol, no poop. I was counting on 3 hours min... I was done in less than two, cleaned up and everything








If you guys want to start a group buy we can do that too








Adrian


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## E7TDI (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

You have part numbers?
John


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## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (E7TDI)*

i did this in '01, got the parts from http://www.thescirocco.com/ - cost was ~200ish


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## d0wnShifT (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (Boostin20v)*

oh and how i wish i was back in the motherland again. The autobahn is something everyone should experience at least once in their life.. I need to come visit










_Modified by d0wnShifT at 11:20 PM 10-18-2005_


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## RoyalOakMichiganJim (Apr 6, 2003)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

........I wish it was that easy for the six speed trans that I have....







That O2M with 2 final drive ratios is a different breed of cat........


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (E7TDI)*

John, the part number are:
02a 311 361m & 02a 311 158r
these are for the .718XXX ratio. Also available for any 02A or 02J tranny are the .75XXX and .68XXX gear sets. For about the same price. Actually the .68 is about $10 cheaper...
other guy, Yes the 02M is a diff story all together. 
other guy#2, I checked that link and didn't find anything.








Adrian


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## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

as other guy #2....the site doesnt list half the stuff you can get from them....but if you contact them you can get the gear sets needed for the conversion.


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*

lol, other guy #2, couldn't remeber your SN and didn't wan't to go back... So, you did this same swap? .71XX gear set? What was total price shipped? 
Thanks!
Ad


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## an204421 (Sep 9, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

Is there anything like this for an automatic (the 4 speed), maybe adding a fifth gear


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## JDriver1.8t (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (an204421)*

Unfortunately, there isn't anything that can be done for an auto.


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## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (JDriver1.8t)*

I paid ~200 bucks shipped for the parts back in '01


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## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

Any chance you could see what the rpm drop is between 4th at redline into the new 5th? Where it puts you after the shift basically.


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## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

Great info - thanks. I have these gears on order right now. They are currently available in the US. 1stvwparts has them for $285. Prices have definitely gone up over the recent years. Below is what I had previously recorded for pricing.
As for speed/gearing, I believe my estimates (with 3.94 final) were suggesting:
85mph - was:3800, will be:3200
80mph - was:3600, will be:3000
Here's the previous pricing info I had found:
For the .717 gearing you'll need:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=713538 (2/18/03)
02a311361M is $80.50
and 02a311158R is $122.10
I just (8/18/05) checked these sites and found:
1stvwparts.com:
02a311361M: $110
02a311158R: $174
worldimpex.com:
02a311361M: $142
02a311158R: $226


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## slickfisher (Oct 16, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

Congrats. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Your my hero.
Only when I have the money, time and energy.
Big envy.


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## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (slickfisher)*

on my AWD revs dropped roughly 500-700rpms after the install. Sorry but I cant be more specific, the car was down in '01 for 8 months and this year its been down since May.


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (QuickK03Crap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickK03Crap* »_Any chance you could see what the rpm drop is between 4th at redline into the new 5th? Where it puts you after the shift basically. 

I will check tomorrow morning... on my way to work I usually see 130mph, and if I am running a bit late, well... you know








Schoolbus, Yeah those are old links and they don't work. I have no idea why the prices would go up ( maybe cause gas prices







). I talked to the manager of our local VW dealer and he said he would give me discount for sure if I were to buy 5 or more sets. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Adrian


_Modified by El Romano Loco at 9:56 PM 10-19-2005_


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## zooyork155 (Nov 10, 2003)

Very interested in the MPG difference. I commute in 5th and the RPM drop should save $$$


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## Ricky_Rockstah (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (QuickK03Crap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickK03Crap* »_Any chance you could see what the rpm drop is between 4th at redline into the new 5th? Where it puts you after the shift basically. 

That's totally what I want to know as well.


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## KGilman (Feb 3, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

K-Town







....swing by Hohenfels and say hi for me, I miss Germany.


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## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (QuickK03Crap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickK03Crap* »_Any chance you could see what the rpm drop is between 4th at redline into the new 5th? Where it puts you after the shift basically. 

Just compare the ratio of gear-ratios to see what the reduction is at any RPM.
For instance, I will be replacing my 0.837 5th gear with this 0.717 5th gear. Therefore, I will end up at 0.717/0.837=85.7% of my previous RPMs. If I apply that to a variety of RPMs, I will see:
OLD: NEW: 
0.837:	0.717:
2000	1713
2500	2142
3000	2570
3500	2998
3800	3255 <-- This is ~85mph in my Golf
4000	3427
4500	3855
5000	4283
5500	4711
6000	5140
6500	5568
7000	5996


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (QuickK03Crap)*

quickcrap...
quote: "Any chance you could see what the rpm drop is between 4th at redline into the new 5th? Where it puts you after the shift basically"

Can you be more specific about redline? 6500 or 7000 or 7200?








Gimme that info and I will get yours...
Adrian


_Modified by El Romano Loco at 12:22 PM 10-20-2005_


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## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

7K or 7200, either.


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (QuickK03Crap)*

gotcha, will do be back on here later tonight with results...
PS: I love driving at high speeds, to me, it's one of the few things I enjoy in life...
Adrian


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## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

At least you live somewhere where it's not so looked down upon.


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (QuickK03Crap)*

yeah, like underage drinking... at 20?!?! bull****. 16 for beer, 18 for hard stuff. They never ask anyway. 
People are different here, they respect each other more, are less ignorant, and more educated. Which in the end makes them more responsible, i guess... 
With that said, I do miss living in some places of the states, where it is still not so corrupted.







Everything is more convenient in America.
Adrian


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## double0vr6 (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

Can you do anything for the 6 speed.


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## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (RoyalOakMichiganJim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RoyalOakMichiganJim* »_........I wish it was that easy for the six speed trans that I have....







That O2M with 2 final drive ratios is a different breed of cat........


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## slickfisher (Oct 16, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

Been to Europe a couple of times. I think you pretty well nailed it. Our convenience is not worth the corruption/hypocrisy/lack of consistency we face.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

This is very interesting. Can you rate on a scale of 1 - 10 the level of difficulty this change is? Average weekend warrior work?


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (judoGTI)*

LOL, not a weekend warrior job, more like afternoon warrior. 
You guys shouldn't be so hesitant on taking that cap off the tranny, everything goes back simple and you won't have many parts laying around to figure out...
If anyone wants details about the install, send IM at will








I am always willing to help anyone. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 








BTW, weather sucks right now. Will try to check that 4th to 5th rpm tomorrow again. Sorry, but I just can't see much driving so fast when its raining








Adrian


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## E7TDI (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (KGilman)*

Thanks Adrian, Must be nice to go out and hammer @ 150+ ........


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (E7TDI)*

It is a privelage. I am gunna miss it when I go back to the state again...
So, this morning i checked those rpms you guys wanted to know about. Please always keep in mind I have the 3.94 final drive(pre 2001)AWD. 
From 4th to 5th @7000rpm's. When I shift to 5th , it drops me to 4900rpm's. Hope this helps...








if there is anything else you need, let me know.
Adrian


_Modified by El Romano Loco at 9:34 AM 10-21-2005_


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## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (QuickK03Crap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickK03Crap* »_Any chance you could see what the rpm drop is between 4th at redline into the new 5th? Where it puts you after the shift basically. 


Again, this should be able to be determined by the gear ratios.
I'm assuming he has the 1.029 4th gear. 
He used to have a 0.837 5th gear, and now has a 0.717 5th gear.
The RPM in 5th gear when shifting from 4th gear, at the same vehicle speed, will be (5th_gear/4th_gear)*4th_gear_RPM
4th - old_5th - new_5th
2500 - 2034 - 1742
3000 - 2440 - 2090
3500 - 2847 - 2439
4000 - 3254 - 2787
4500 - 3660 - 3136
5000 - 4067 - 3484
5500 - 4474 - 3832
6000 - 4880 - 4181
6500 - 5287 - 4529
7000 - 5694 - 4878
7200 - 5857 - 5017

What the above is showing is that with these 4th & 5th gears mentioned, if one shifts at 6500 in 4th gear, they previously would have ended up at 5287 RPMs in 5th gear, but now with the taller 5th gear, they will instead end up at 4529 RPMs.
NOTE: The above reflects shifting at a constant speed. If shifting under acceleration, speed will increase during the shift and thus the resulting 5th gear RPM will be higher than above. 



_Modified by Schoolbus at 9:47 AM 10-21-2005_


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (Schoolbus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Schoolbus* »_

Again, this should be able to be determined by the gear ratios.
I'm assuming he has the 1.029 4th gear. 
He used to have a 0.837 5th gear, and now has a 0.717 5th gear.
The RPM in 5th gear when shifting from 4th gear, at the same vehicle speed, will be (5th_gear/4th_gear)*4th_gear_RPM
4th - old_5th - new_5th
2500 - 2034 - 1742
3000 - 2440 - 2090
3500 - 2847 - 2439
4000 - 3254 - 2787
4500 - 3660 - 3136
5000 - 4067 - 3484
5500 - 4474 - 3832
6000 - 4880 - 4181
6500 - 5287 - 4529
7000 - 5694 - 4878
7200 - 5857 - 5017

What the above is showing is that with these 4th & 5th gears mentioned, if one shifts at 6500 in 4th gear, they previously would have ended up at 5287 RPMs in 5th gear, but now with the taller 5th gear, they will instead end up at 4529 RPMs.
NOTE: The above reflects shifting at a constant speed. If shifting under acceleration, speed will increase during the shift and thus the resulting 5th gear RPM will be higher than above. 
_Modified by Schoolbus at 9:47 AM 10-21-2005_

Can you explain why 4th(7000rpm) goes to 5th(4900)?
Adrian


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## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *El Romano Loco* »_
Can you explain why 4th(7000rpm) goes to 5th(4900)?
Adrian

Exactly as the chart shows... 7000 RPMs in 4th gear when shifted into 5th would yield 5694 RPMs with your old 0.837 5th gear, but with your new 0.717 5th gear, it yields 4878 RPMs. You're testing is consistent with this.
The difference between 4878 and 4900 is due to either estimation on your part by reading the guage, and/or that as you were accelerating and shifting, the car increased in speed just a tad bit to get it up that extra 22 RPMs








Regards,
Mark


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (Schoolbus)*

Ha ha, you modified the chart, it use to show 39XX at 7000rpm for the .71...
you tricky guy...








that's cool, that makes sense now, 4900rpm is exactly what i get.
thanks for fixing that!!
Adrian


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## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *El Romano Loco* »_Ha ha, you modified the chart, it use to show 39XX at 7000rpm for the .71...
you tricky guy...








that's cool, that makes sense now, 4900rpm is exactly what i get.
thanks for fixing that!!
Adrian

Ha, I guess you saw it pretty quick after I posted it originally, or you read it in an auto-email that contained the post. When I first pasted it in Excel, I accidentally pasted such that the right column was calculating a percentage from the middle column instead of the left, thus why the numbers were off at first - good catch


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## VDUBRACER187 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (Schoolbus)*

let me know if your gonna do a group buy on this... i am *very* interested


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## _AxS_ (Oct 1, 2005)

wow, this would be sweet...
So uh, the .71 works for a 3.94 final drive on the older AWD trannys.. does anyone know the math (and even better, part numbers) for the gear that would give a similar speed<->rpm for newer ('03, '04) 1.8t 5spd trannies?


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (_AxS_)*

yeah, just get the .75 tdi fifth. Should turn out to about the same as what i have... as for part numbers, I don't have them in front of me right now, but I am sure the TDI guys now or someone else on here...
Adrian
About the group buy, i will be starting another thread for the GB.
Adrian


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (El Romano Loco)*

Is there any way to confirm the tranny and what ratios I have without looking at the tranny? I'd want to be certain about getting the right parts... it's an '03 1.8T so I think it has the 3.938 final... would the .71 be to tall?
this is great by the way...


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## E7TDI (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*

Adrian, The part numbers you gave me for .71 ratio ...is this the same for the TDi or should it be .75? also what size tires are you running? I would love to go 18" on my car and keep 48 mpg....








Thanks
John


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*

Pretty much all the AWD motors(2000-2001) have the 3.9 final. All the AWW/AWP's(2001-2004) and in the New Beetle's 2001 and up(except the S) have the 3.6XX final drive.
In your case, you would be much better off with a .75 final.
Adrian


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (E7TDI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *E7TDI* »_Adrian, The part numbers you gave me for .71 ratio ...is this the same for the TDi or should it be .75? also what size tires are you running? I would love to go 18" on my car and keep 48 mpg....








Thanks
John

All the TDI's and 1.8T's have swappable gears. That's why we usually can get the TDI 5th from them when they switch to the .71 or .68...
Talk to: david_594 for more info on the TDI's. I hooked him up with a .68 5th.
My wheels are stock 17" Long Beaches with 225/45 tires. 
Adrian


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## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (El Romano Loco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *El Romano Loco* »_Pretty much all the AWD motors(2000-2001) have the 3.9 final. All the AWW/AWP's(2001-2004) and in the New Beetle's 2001 and up(except the S) have the 3.6XX final drive.
In your case, you would be much better off with a .75 final.
Adrian


Adrian, you might want to check on that "All the AWW's have 3.6xx" statement.
My AWW (2001 Golf 4dr 1.8T) has an EGX tranny with the 3.938 final:
1.8T trannys coded: EBQ, EMT, EGX, FBW:
_1st__2nd___3rd___4th___5th___R&P_
3.300-1.944-1.308-1.029-0.837-3.938
Make SURE you check your tranny code.
This picture's not great, but the first 3 letters say EGX:








And it can be found here:











_Modified by Schoolbus at 11:22 AM 10-23-2005_


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## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (Schoolbus)*

Yea AWW's have 3.94...but AWW was only out for what half a year? 02 they changed it.


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## Sid-Rage (Jun 15, 2004)

so i got a aww? does that mean switching to a tdi gear wouldn't really help me out?


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (Sid-Rage)*

Make sure you check the tranny code as said above.
If you have the 3.9XX final, the TDI fifth will help, but the .71XX would be more worth it IMHO. 
It all depends on you








Adrian


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## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (Sid-Rage)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sid-Rage* »_so i got a aww? does that mean switching to a tdi gear wouldn't really help me out?

I would pay more attention to what ratio your current 5th gear is. The difference will be dependent upon the change in ratios between those gears, not the final drive. 
The final drive isn't directly related, though it might be informative to some which would tell them which 5th gear is in such a tranny. I don't know that info off hand. Nonetheless, it's the change in 5th gear ratios you want to focus your attention on. Do you know what your current 5th ratio is?
Mark


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## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (Schoolbus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Schoolbus* »_
I would pay more attention to what ratio your current 5th gear is. The difference will be dependent upon the change in ratios between those gears, not the final drive. 
The final drive isn't directly related, though it might be informative to some which would tell them which 5th gear is in such a tranny. I don't know that info off hand. Nonetheless, it's the change in 5th gear ratios you want to focus your attention on. Do you know what your current 5th ratio is?
Mark

Putting a 3.65 in and pulling out the 3.94 will get you better gas mileage also tho. All the gears go thru the final drive. I think it's a 200-300rpm difference in 5th.


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (Schoolbus)*

I've been looking at this for a while and been playing with a spreadsheet I found off one of the links that calculates a bunch of this stuff... I've got the 3.65 final (i think!) and here are my RPMs with the following 5ths at 80 MPH:
.71 --> 2789
.756 --> 2970
.837 --> 3288 (stock)
and the following speeds for 3000 RPMs with the same gears respectively:
86.1
80.3
73.0
At 80 MPH, my "savings" is 318 RPMS for the .756 and 499 for the .71
Is my only disadvantage with the lower .71 (instead of the .75) gear that I have to downshift to 4th to accelerate?
...and why didn't they make it stock this way to begin with?








thanks, this is fun


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_
Putting a 3.65 in and pulling out the 3.94 will get you better gas mileage also tho. All the gears go thru the final drive. I think it's a 200-300rpm difference in 5th.

Oh, I didn't think anyone was talking about swapping the final drive as well. I thought it was just about changing 5th. If I missed that, I apologize. I just meant to say that if you're swapping out a 5th gear, all that you need to know is your current RPMs in 5th, the old 5th ratio and the new 5th ratio to see what the changes will be. Final doesn't matter because it will be the same throughout (thus my assumption of it not being swapped)


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhirsch123* »_I've been looking at this for a while and been playing with a spreadsheet I found off one of the links that calculates a bunch of this stuff... I've got the 3.65 final (i think!) and here are my RPMs with the following 5ths at 80 MPH:
.71 --> 2789
.756 --> 2970
.837 --> 3288 (stock)
and the following speeds for 3000 RPMs with the same gears respectively:
86.1
80.3
73.0
At 80 MPH, my "savings" is 318 RPMS for the .756 and 499 for the .71
Is my only disadvantage with the lower .71 (instead of the .75) gear that I have to downshift to 4th to accelerate?
...and why didn't they make it stock this way to begin with?








thanks, this is fun










Are those values above all from a calculation, or have you verified the speed/rpm in your car? Just read the code on the tranny (you can see by popping the hood) to be sure.
I'm putting the 0.717 (out with the 0.837) in my car which has the 3.938. This is going to result in ~3000 RPMs at 80 MPH. It looks like you could achive the same result by putting the 0.756 in with your 3.65 (if that's what you have).
Part of the decision is going to be based on your driving. I cruise on the highway for 70 miles each way to work/home on cruise control. So for me, I want the lower revs. I won't mind downshifting if I really need to accelerate fast in traffic/passing/etc. If you're on and off power a lot at those speeds, you may want to look closer to see the RPM changes between 4th and 5th (as noted in a post above) for your car, to see if you'll end up with too big of a gap between the gears.
Also, here's a Gear/Speed/RPMm calculator on my website that I made:
http://ctny.audiworld.com/mark/s4/gears/
Regards,
Mark


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

Thought you guys might like a visual showing the gearing change...
Here is the theoretical RPM vs Speed for the EGX tranny (ratios listed on graph) using the stock 195/65R15 tire for calculations. The solid yellow line is the stock 5th gear (0.837) and the dotted yellow line will be my new 5th gear (0.717)


----------



## mrivera (May 4, 2005)

i thought driving at 105mph was scary.. you guys are talkin 150? damn.


----------



## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

Has anyone else done this yet? I've got the 3.65 final and am still thinking about going with the .71 instead of the .75. Using 70 miles per hour, it would put my RPMs at 2650 with the .71, 2800 with the .75 and 3100 .837 stock gear.
Does anyone else use that setup? 
What level of expertise should I have before doing this? 
I highly doubt I could do it in 3 hours but certainly should be able to get it done in a day or two....


----------



## david_594 (May 16, 2004)

Here are some pictures with the side of my tranny opened up http://linux.itsafish.com/5thgear/ I did the .681 gear but it should all look the same. 
TDI for the win, I spin 2300 at 75 mph.


----------



## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (david_594)*

Man that's great! That sounds pretty low. What is your final drive? I recently convinced myself I need to go lower than the .75, so I was thinking the .71 - now I'll have to go through the same thing with the .68... Either will be huge improvement from the .837... Why did they go with such a low gear?
Dave, how long did it take you to get through all this? 
Thanks a lot!


----------



## david_594 (May 16, 2004)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*

The whole swap can be done in about 2 hours assuming you have all the right tools on hand. I came up short one T60 torx bit and had to make a trip out to the auto parts store. You just need to make sure you have the right size pullers to get the gears off. The ones I used were a little modified. 
I dont know how well suited the .68 would be to any of the gas motors. To tall of gearing and you might start having.... um... torque issues.


----------



## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (david_594)*

Is the same transmission I have? O2J? Just wondering how much the pics will vary from what I'm looking at. I guess I'll stick with the .71 or .75. Wouldn't want to push it (or not be able to) with the .68.... 
Any other kinds of tools and stuff you can think of off the top your head?


----------



## 20vraddo (Oct 27, 2005)

looks like my next mod will be a .71 then


----------



## david_594 (May 16, 2004)

*Re: (20vraddo)*

Yeah. The TDI has the 02J tranny also so it should look pretty much identical.


----------



## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (david_594)*

Anyone know where I could get the .717 gear pair?


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*

By the end of this week, I should have a prices and such to start offering a Group Buy. 
Keep your eyes open in the VW mark IV classifieds, and in here too, i suppose.
Glad to here those gears worked out for you Dave.
I tried signing up on tdiclub form work and I was having some security issues... I will try tonight from home and introduce myself.
Thanks!
Adrian


----------



## zooyork155 (Nov 10, 2003)

Any word on gas mileage difference?


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (zooyork155)*

Let me make something very clear first: I am in no way try to convince anyone of doing this. It is strickly up to you.
I was going to post my findings separate, but since you ask now...
I am actually in a trial right now, but I can already tell it's a big improvement. Before, with the tank topped off(to the rim), cruising at 90 mph in 5th, I was getting no more than 130-140 miles by the half tank mark. 
Now, I just hit the half tank mark and I am 198 miles








Despite what anyone has to say about this, I am happy with this mod, I can say it helps quite a bit, and I do recommend it to long distance drivers or anyone who doesn't agree with the short 5th VWoA gives us... 
Adrian


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

What are the gear ratios for the newer 1.8T trannys that have a 3.6x final? I'll create a new graph with those if someone lets me know what they are.
Mark


_Modified by Schoolbus at 2:21 PM 11-1-2005_


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (david_594)*


_Quote, originally posted by *david_594* »_Here are some pictures with the side of my tranny opened up http://linux.itsafish.com/5thgear/ I did the .681 gear but it should all look the same. 
TDI for the win, I spin 2300 at 75 mph.

Damn, I was previously looking for a lower gear like a .680 but couldn't find one








Here was one of my posts when I was gear hunting:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2097570
Mark


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

I added the other two 5th gears mentioned in this thread to show their impact on the 3.938 final 1.8T tranny. I'll do the same for the 3.6x tranny when someone posts those gear ratios.








Mark


----------



## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (Schoolbus)*

I found this on the forum. I know I have a 3.647 final with the EHA tranny, AWP engine code which should be these ratios:
EHA
1st: 3.300:1
2nd: 1.944:1
3rd: 1.308:1
4th: 1.034
5th: 0.838
Final: 3.647:1
108mm cup
Not sure what the cup is... Thanks Mark. Do you think the .71 would be too tall for cruising at 75 or 80 MPH? I can send you a spreadsheet if you can post it somewhere...
Thanks,
Jon


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*

Here's the graph for the 3.647 tranny per the ratios provided....


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhirsch123* »_ Thanks Mark. Do you think the .71 would be too tall for cruising at 75 or 80 MPH? I can send you a spreadsheet if you can post it somewhere...
Thanks,
Jon


Jon,
Personally, I would be fine with that. It appears like you would end up around 2600 RPMs at that speed (assuming the ratios I used were correct). My drive is long and boring on mostly flat highway - as such, I would be fine with 2600 RPMs. Variables that might be involved here would be the speed one normally drives in 5th, the amount of traffic which might dictate how much passing power you need in 5th, and also what kind of power do you have in the car (stock 150HP, chipped, big laggy turbo, etc). Those items are going to be different for each, and they might impact whether or not one should do this, or with which new gear.
Mark


----------



## JCJetta (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: (El Romano Loco)*

See, this is why I like the Vortex so much. I'm going to keep this in my watched thread. 
Just keep in mind his "cruising" speed is 90mph; I would be interested to know what the car feels like at 70-75mph. I feel with just my self in the car I can move up to 80-85 to pass on the freeways when needed with no trouble, no downshifting. The power range is just great there, but the RPM is still too high IMO. 
Keep us posted on your MPG results! Great thread.


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (JCJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JCJetta* »_See, this is why I like the Vortex so much. I'm going to keep this in my watched thread. 


Just for the record, I am traditionally an "Audiworld-er". It's the relationships & people I have encountered there which have encouraged me to want to create, share, etc such data, info, and the like. In the same timeframe I have made ~230 posts here, I have made ~23,000 posts over there. Not making any comparisons between forums, just wanted to give credit where it is due. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Mark


----------



## david_594 (May 16, 2004)

Ditto to what schoolbus said. I am a "Tdiclub-er". I have like 900 posts there and a whopping 70 here. I only really come to the vortex when im looking for used parts. 
People on TDIclub have been swapping in the .717 for like 4 years now and the .681 gearset has always been rumored about. I resurrected the idea with the help of a dealer tech in florida and we found the .681 that should work. And in the end i guess we just plain lucked out. 
Vortex does have some original mod ideas every once in a while.


----------



## cxg231 (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhirsch123* »_I found this on the forum. I know I have a 3.647 final with the EHA tranny, AWP engine code which should be these ratios:
EHA
1st: 3.300:1
2nd: 1.944:1
3rd: 1.308:1
4th: 1.034
5th: 0.838
Final: 3.647:1
108mm cup


First off - great thread!!! Second off - does anyone have the part numbers required to do the 0.71 5th gear swap (on the AWP engine with EHA tranny as above)? Thanks.


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (cxg231)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cxg231* »_First off - great thread!!! Second off - does anyone have the part numbers required to do the 0.71 5th gear swap (on the AWP engine with EHA tranny as above)? Thanks.


The 0.717 5th gear set that fits the 02J tranny is listed multiple places and Adrian appears to be doing a group buy on them.
I purchased them recently through a VW parts reseller. I have these prices noted from this particular parts store:
1stvwparts.com:
02a311361M - $110.01
02a311158R - $174.18 
Mark


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (Schoolbus)*

That's right, as Mark said, I will be starting a new thread with the group buy. This will not only include the Tex, i will post at TDIClub also.
I am shooting somewhere around $250 shipped. 
By Friday morning I will have the post up.
keep an eye out!!!
Adrian


----------



## cxg231 (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: (Schoolbus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Schoolbus* »_
1stvwparts.com:
02a311361M - $110.01
02a311158R - $174.18 


Thanks very much! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *Schoolbus* »_The 0.717 5th gear set that fits the 02J tranny is listed multiple places

Your kindness & effort saved me time and confusion, so thank you for listing them again!


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (cxg231)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cxg231* »_Thanks very much! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Your kindness & effort saved me time and confusion, so thank you for listing them again!









No problem at all. In fact, here is a bunch of data I had collected prior to purchasing my gear set. It was designed just to be notes to myself so use it as such:

Autotech kit 0.72:
http://www.autotech.com/pdfcat/D_driveline.pdf
10.310.072K
"pair of gears"
$299

2 of the parts (both gears I guess)
02a311361M
02a311158R
I thought the kit included some gaskets, tools, or something, but now I'm not sure. I asked here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2176436

worldimpex.com:
02a311361M - $144.76
IMPEX SKU # 41344
5TH GEAR
5TH GEAR
Manufacturer: GENUINE PART
02a311158R - $226.05
IMPEX SKU # 41286
GEAR
GEAR
Manufacturer: GENUINE PART

1stvwparts.com:
02a311361M - $110.01
02a311158R - $174.18
So it seems I could get these parts from 1stvwparts for $285 and hope I have the right parts, or I could just order the stuff from Autotech for $299. I guess I could check locally to see what these parts cost at the dealer too.

Langan VW:
02a311361M - $152.38 (ft worth texas has it)
02a311158R - $237.95 (9/14/05 eta in ft worth, texas) from: 92-93 passat
a previous vortex post of mine:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2097570
0.717:
http://www.techtonicstuning.com/TransRatios.html
"02A" 5 Speed G-60, Passat 16V, VR6
ASD 3.300 1.944 1.308 0.971 0.717 3.944 Passat 16V
CHA 3.778 2.118 1.360 0.917 0.717 3.944 TDI Passat
0.717:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=642917
02A:
CHA====3.778=2.118=1.360=0.917=0.717=3.944==VR6 Canada
ASD====3.300=1.944==1.308==1.09==0.717==3.16==TDI I've heard of a few being bought in the USA but I believe its a euro MK3 TDI tranny
0.72 (probably the 0.717?):
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1897748
we (Autotech) offer a .72 5th gear conversion for 02A & 02J transaxles. I'm not going to provide those part numbers. The gear pair sells for $299.95
0.712?:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1675878
TDI's have 0.712 and 0.795 5th gears as well.
0.756:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1610560
TDI trannys coded: DQY, EBJ, EGR:
_1st___2nd___3rd___4th___5th___R&P_
3.788-2.118-1.360-0.971-0.756-3.389

And some prices:
For the .717 gearing you'll need:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=713538 (2/18/03)
02a311361M is $80.50
and 02a311158R is $122.10
I just (8/18/05) checked these sites and found:
1stvwparts.com:
02a311361M: $110
02a311158R: $174
worldimpex.com:
02a311361M: $142
02a311158R: $226


_Modified by Schoolbus at 12:53 AM 11-12-2005_


----------



## cxg231 (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: (Schoolbus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Schoolbus* »_In fact, here is a bunch of data I had collected prior to purchasing my gear set.

Truly, that post is above and beyond the call of duty. Quite exceptional really, considering the "quality" of a lot of the posts we see on the vortex...
If we ever meet in person, remind me that I owe you a







or three. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## watercop (Nov 3, 2005)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*

I don't want to get in trouble over here with my very first neon-green newbie post, but if I manage to acquire and install a 0.681 5th gearset into my '03 Jetta TDI, and I manage it without pulling teeth off the present (not-stock) 0.717 gears, I'll have a surplus set of 0.717 gears...


----------



## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (Schoolbus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Schoolbus* »_
For the .717 gearing you'll need:
1stvwparts.com:
02a311361M: $110
02a311158R: $174
worldimpex.com:
02a311361M: $142
02a311158R: $226

i know the first one is 5th gear, but what gear is the second part number?


----------



## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (heysuperman)*

i have the 4.24 FD and it's killing my highway unless i drive 70 mph.








think i should go even farther with .68? or stick with .71?


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (heysuperman)*

You have to buy the gears in sets of 2, or the teeth will not match...
reminder, post for 5th gear swap Group Buy will be up tomorrow!!
Adrian


----------



## beachball6 (Apr 22, 2003)

whoh! post a link in this thread cuz we all know the mk IV classified moves fast as hell.


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (beachball6)*

will do
Adrian


----------



## L33TX43RT (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (El Romano Loco)*

I have an '03 Jetta 1.8T. What's my final drive ratio?


----------



## MeetleBan (Jul 29, 2001)

*Re: (L33TX43RT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *L33TX43RT* »_I have an '03 Jetta 1.8T. What's my final drive ratio?









You can find out, if you look at the graphs 'schoolbus' kindly posted. IE, make a mental note of what rpm's you are doing at say, 60mph in 5th, and match it to the graph. Worked for me.


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (MeetleBan)*

I am pretty sure that yours is a 3.6XX final...


----------



## MeetleBan (Jul 29, 2001)

*Re: (El Romano Loco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *El Romano Loco* »_I am pretty sure that yours is a 3.6XX final...

Sorry, were you replying to me, or L33TX43RT?
I suspect my fd ratio is 3.938, as it tallies with schoolbus's graph. 90mph in 5th = 4000rpm in my 1.8T Bug. Too high!
I have my eye on the .756 5th ratio...


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (MeetleBan)*

Correct i was replying to L33TX43RT.
I was in the same situation as you, and I would not get the .75... 
the .717 would be more worth the money and work.
Just my opinion though. If you are set on the .75(TDI 5th) then go for it!!
Adrian
BTW, I have been held up a bit, but I will post the GB thread within 2 hours, and I will offer all 5th gear sets possible(.68,.71,75)








thanks!!


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (El Romano Loco)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2275749








Adrian


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (El Romano Loco)*

Id love to see a Pictorial DIY write up when you guys start to get these in. It sounds easy enough, but I surprise myself everyday with shortcomings....


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

El Romano loco no esta tan loco. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## hemi (Nov 3, 2005)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

My 05 GLI runs that and I've still got 6th gear to play with got any info on upgrade for mine???


----------



## david_594 (May 16, 2004)

I am doing a write-up with pictures on how to do this swap. I did mine last week. Its pretty easy, but I know you will all appreciate the pictures just to put your minds at ease.
dave


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (david_594)*

Thanks dave!
about the 02M tranny, I am not very familiar with that setup. Maybe someone else can help?
thanks,
Adrian


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (El Romano Loco)*

For those that still want in on this deal, try this:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/show...49102
Thanks again, 
Adrian


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (El Romano Loco)*

My tranny says I have an 'EHA' anyone know which I have?
Its a 2002+ AWP GTI
Thanks!


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

Schoolbus? Could you help this guy out. I thought we mentioned most tranny codes/final drives in this thread...
I can check with local dealer, but I am sure someone else on here can give youa quicker reponse








Adrian


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_My tranny says I have an 'EHA' anyone know which I have?
Its a 2002+ AWP GTI
Thanks!

Using the search engine, I searched for "eha" on the 'Manual Transmission' forum in archived content and it came back with this:
Trans code EHA?
And even better, this too:
http://www.bentleypublishers.c...a.pdf
Mark


_Modified by Schoolbus at 12:44 PM 11-6-2005_


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (Schoolbus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Schoolbus* »_Using the search engine, I searched for "eha" on the 'Manual Transmission' forum in archived content and it came back with this:
Trans code EHA?
And even better, this too:
http://www.bentleypublishers.c...a.pdf
Mark

_Modified by Schoolbus at 12:44 PM 11-6-2005_

Thanks, I didnt even know we had a Manual Tranny forum here. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Now I just need to convince myself to drop the cash before the group by is over.... Hrmmmm


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

email replied








Adrian


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (david_594)*


_Quote, originally posted by *david_594* »_I am doing a write-up with pictures on how to do this swap. I did mine last week. Its pretty easy, but I know you will all appreciate the pictures just to put your minds at ease.
dave

Great write-up on the tdi forums!


----------



## david_594 (May 16, 2004)

write on the swap can be found at http://linux.itsafish.com/gearswap.pdf


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (david_594)*

Here are the pics of my 0.717 gears, hopefully going in my tranny later this week when my LSD arrives...
























Waiting patiently:


----------



## roly (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: (Schoolbus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Schoolbus* »_









did you find that at the beach with a metal detector?


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (Schoolbus)*

those look familiar... 
Good luck with everything!
and thanks again for all the info you have provided to us







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Adrian


----------



## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (El Romano Loco)*

soooOOoo...can you get it for us even after this month?


----------



## Shad (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *El Romano Loco* »_You have to buy the gears in sets of 2, or the teeth will not match...
reminder, post for 5th gear swap Group Buy will be up tomorrow!!
Adrian

Yes, but how can you do that since the dealers sell them as separate parts?


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (Shad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Shad* »_
Yes, but how can you do that since the dealers sell them as separate parts?

You buy the two parts you need, such as I pictured above. It's better that they are not sold as a pair - if they were, you'd have to buy both if you chipped just one of them.
The gear RATIO comes about because one gear is bigger than the other. If you count the teeth on the gears I pictured above, you will see that the smaller one has 33 teeth, and the larger one has 46 teeth. 33 divided by 46 (33/46) equals 0.717391... That's how this is a 0.717 gear SET. You need both to make it work.
The stock 5th gear SET in my tranny consists of a 31 tooth and 37 tooth gears. 31/37 = 0.83783...
Because the gears are located on parallel shafts that are always the same distance apart, if you change one gear (bigger or smaller), then the corresponding gear also has to change in the opposite direction so they will mesh properly. 
On a bicycle, you don't have to change both the front and rear gears at the same time because you have a chain with excess length that is spring loaded to adjust as such.
Hope that helps,
Mark


----------



## Shad (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (Schoolbus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Schoolbus* »_
You buy the two parts you need, such as I pictured above. It's better that they are not sold as a pair - if they were, you'd have to buy both if you chipped just one of them.
The gear RATIO comes about because one gear is bigger than the other. If you count the teeth on the gears I pictured above, you will see that the smaller one has 33 teeth, and the larger one has 46 teeth. 33 divided by 46 (33/46) equals 0.717391... That's how this is a 0.717 gear SET. You need both to make it work.
The stock 5th gear SET in my tranny consists of a 31 tooth and 37 tooth gears. 31/37 = 0.83783...
Because the gears are located on parallel shafts that are always the same distance apart, if you change one gear (bigger or smaller), then the corresponding gear also has to change in the opposite direction so they will mesh properly. 
On a bicycle, you don't have to change both the front and rear gears at the same time because you have a chain with excess length that is spring loaded to adjust as such.
Hope that helps,
Mark

For sure it helps someone, but not me. In fact I was concerned about the machining of the gears. Won't a pair of gears made in different days, by different machinists, with different tools, be noisy?


----------



## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (Shad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Shad* »_
For sure it helps someone, but not me. In fact I was concerned about the machining of the gears. Won't a pair of gears made in different days, by different machinists, with different tools, be noisy?

The majority of a car's parts that connect to each other are made on different days, often by different manufacturers, in different countries. Yet somehow our cars stay together. That's what specs are for, not to mention it's all computer controlled/produced - it's not like there are blacksmiths hammering out VW gears.


----------



## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (Schoolbus)*

Schoolbus,
If I've ever met anyone who I would think would have been a blacksmith back in the day, you would be him.
Excellent point! - specs are specs and that's why we have them


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (jhirsch123)*

Found something interesting:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/show...t=all
There is still time if you want in...








BTW, Schoolbus, do you have a P/N for the stock .75 TDI 5th Gear Set? 
TIA,
Adrian


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

if you drive at all this mod will pay it self off in months.


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## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_if you drive at all this mod will pay it self off in months.

I'm not so sure about that. I'm doing the mod, but I'm not *expecting* to make my money back anytime soon. And I drive a lot of highway miles.
I've been averaging 26.2mpg. Let's just theorize that with this taller gear, that bumps up 2mpgs to 28.2mpg. Let's see how long it takes me to break even. I paid $285 for my gears, so I'll use that number and I'll assume free labor for install. Gas is currently ~$2.50/gal, so we'll use that number as well. According to my Mileage Page, I have been averaging 28k miles/year. Ok, that's the data we need, now let's do the math...
Using that data, let's answer "How many months will it take for these gears to pay for themselves?"
$285 = (gas cost per month with old MPG for X months) - (gas cost per month with new MPG for X months)
$285 = ($2.50/gal / 26.2miles/gal * 28kmiles/yr * 1yr/12months * X months) - ($2.50/gal / 28.2miles/gal * 28kmiles/yr * 1yr/12months * X months)
$285 = ($222.65 * X) - ($206.86 * X)
$285 = $15.79 * X <---- This means I'm saving $15.79 per month
X = 18.05 months
So if I get 2 more MPG (26.2 up to 28.2) and I drive 28,000 miles per year, and gas costs $2.50 a gallon, then it will take a year and a half to pay for itself.
I haven't double checked the math, so anyone else is welcome to. Also if gas prices go down, or if people drive less miles per year ... those things would just make it take even longer to break even. And vice versa.
I'm still doing the mod. I will enjoy my engine running lower RPMs during my long highway commutes. At the above numbers, I will likely gain about 30 miles or so on a tank of gas, so I'll enjoy slightly less frequent stops at the gas pump, etc. I'll enjoy my monthly gas bills being slightly less ... but I won't expect it to pay for itself anytime soon...








Mark


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## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *El Romano Loco* »_
BTW, Schoolbus, do you have a P/N for the stock .75 TDI 5th Gear Set? 
TIA,
Adrian

I don't know off hand, however I know there is a post in which I believe Autotech responded confirming the P/Ns as they didn't sell that kit. The search is down right now and I can't seem to find the thread on "Ask Autotech" forum. If I remember, I'll try again later.
Mark


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (Schoolbus)*

That's right, I remember that thread, I will check too.
Thanks Mark!
Adrian


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## Shad (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *El Romano Loco* »_Found something interesting:
BTW, Schoolbus, do you have a P/N for the stock .75 TDI 5th Gear Set? 
TIA,
Adrian

You asked him, but here you got: 02A.311.361.Q and 02A.311.158.E


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (Shad)*

Thank you very much!!
Adrian


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

Doesn't 28 dollars for the gasket (02A-301-215-A) sound like a lot!?
That's what the dealer was looking for...
Would it be stupid not to replace the gasket? 



_Modified by jhirsch123 at 4:19 PM 11-14-2005_


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (jhirsch123)*

Yeah, that is high, albeit normal. I purchase mine locally for 7.80 euro








It might not be necessary, depends on your local climate. When I took mine off, I was thinking I could of re-used it, but... 
Anyway, the one I can get is a rubber OEM gasket. 
BTW, have you received the goods yet? Some people already have http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Adrian


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (Schoolbus)*

Way to crush my dreams, why not just tell me that my AA degree from the local community college won't get me anywhere in life too! 
hahaha.
Well 18 months is acceptable to me too. I'll have to start really monitoring my MPG now for a few weeks and then relish in the change.


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (judoGTI)*

I have reused the oem gasket a bunch of times no problems at all. Save the 20$


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

Any recomendation on gear pullers? I might try to hammer this out this weekend.


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (judoGTI)*

Check here please:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/show...ge=15
You should find a craftsman P/N in there somewhere. 
Good Luck!
Adrian


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

Nice, looks like a standard gear puller. 
I just wonder how much of the lip needs to be shaved off to wedge it in there to get the thing started coming off.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (judoGTI)*

Great mod! I'm seriously thinking about doing this! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_I have reused the oem gasket a bunch of times no problems at all. Save the 20$

It looks like tdiclub.com is putting together a CT gear swap GTG.... Any chance you would want to help out?


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (dieselgti)*

Oh boy.....
Swapping out the fifth gear now... well until this... Got the Torx bolt for the shift fork off, then when trying to take the two off, we thought an alan wrench or torx would work in those twelve point guys. Afterall, it's only 18 foot pounds right? The first one came off fine. The second, uh... not so much! DOH! WHAT THE HECK IS THAT? Metric ratchets? so it's a little stripped and I'm contemplating pounding a stripped bolt remover thing on to get it off. 
If it's not so stripped, can I put it back on with the teeth marks? Should I replace the bolt? should I get the tool I need to try and remove it with that, assuming it's not stripped to much








There was WAY more torque than 18 foot pounds BTW...
Any suggestions are welcome








I'm kind of assuming I'll hear, "Put it back together and don't quit your day job!"


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (jhirsch123)*

Couple of suggestions:
Use a 3 prong gear puller for the selector gear, 120 degrees and there's more clearance between that and the syncro...
It would be nice if the writeup had the exact wrenches to use...
We probably could have done this in 2-3 hours if we knew every move to make. I wouldn't start the job on a Sunday night when you have to drive your car to work the next morning.








Also, we used Acetelyn and Oxygen. Not quite sure how it worked with propane... uh...








I'll try to put some of the specific wrenches together later... 
BTW, haven't tried it out yet, hopefully it works but I'm waiting to finish putting the snows on... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*

Did you use the gear swap .pdf that david_594 put together? Sounds like you had pretty rough night.... How did the test drive go?
http://linux.itsafish.com/gearswap.pdf


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (dieselgti)*

yes I did... there are a couple of things that would probably help others... I'll write it up later. Going to Utica now... test drive:
Totally Sweet








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*

I swapped my 5th gear tonight and before I put the cover back on and filled it with tranny oil I tried to put the car into every gear.
The car will go into every gear EXCEPT 5th. Is this normal until I get some new oil in there and start her up?? Or should it go into the new 5th gear even dry like it is now?
What should I be looking for? Something with the synchro maybe? Thx


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

Fixed this issue, but now i get some vibration, going to try and realign the shifter rod with the fork selector tomorrow.


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

yeah, i have vibration in fifth, not like before, but only in the lower RPM ranges. I drove about 150 miles and have noticed the stick shift vibrate in fifth when under load at about 60mph. I also notice that when I push the stick shift to the upper right, the vibration goes away. The vibration isn't significant enough so that I notice when driving the car, unless I'm touching the stick. Hmm...


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_I swapped my 5th gear tonight and before I put the cover back on and filled it with tranny oil I tried to put the car into every gear.
The car will go into every gear EXCEPT 5th. Is this normal until I get some new oil in there and start her up?? Or should it go into the new 5th gear even dry like it is now?
What should I be looking for? Something with the synchro maybe? Thx






























This is another point about the gear selecor assembly:
It goes together in a VERY specific way. Look that up, or fiddle with it for a while







This job would take two hours if you knew EVERY MOVE! So if you don't it'll take...


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*

Have you checked here about the vibrations, hard shifting?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/show...ge=17
hope this helps!
Adrian


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhirsch123* »_This is another point about the gear selecor assembly:
It goes together in a VERY specific way. Look that up, or fiddle with it for a while







This job would take two hours if you knew EVERY MOVE! So if you don't it'll take...

Does anyone have the Bentley diagrams showing how this goes together? Mine didnt say anything about the gear selector and how it goes together. I am 90% sure I have it together correctly though, here is a drawing as to how I have it. Let me know if I am doing it wrong.... ?


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

Also, the side of the tabs that face outward (this edge would sort of be parallel to the spline shaft) are flush with the part of the selector ring it mates with. It's hard to explain. I'll edit if I think of a better way








That makes sense about the vibration... It makes sense that it's a calibration issue with the shift fork...


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, aren't the pins supposed to be in the larger openings?
Adrian


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (El Romano Loco)*

So I took the endcap off the tranny to adjust the shift fork because it vibrates in 5th gear at certain speeds. 
Am I supposed to unscrew the bolt connected to the shift fork, push the stick shift to the upper left, then re-tighen the bolt?
The other problem is that I noticed that the outer C-clip was chewed up in the lower right hand corner of the tranny case. It must have popped out... Anyway it's useless. Does anyone know the part numbers for the following?:
C-clips
The bolt holding the shift fork to the shift rod
The two bolts holding the shift fork to the pivot?
How bad of an idea is it to drive the car without that other C-clip? Can those 3 locking teeth things come out with out that C-clip in?
Thanks for the help...










_Modified by jhirsch123 at 6:26 PM 11-20-2005_


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*

I wouldnt drive with only 1 c-clip. If anything just take the 5th gear out and drive with 4 gears until you can get the parts you need.
Bump for the part numbers though I need those 3 bolts as well.


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## numbnutz (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

This is a good mod for any ride. I did the .75 swap in my '84 GTI and I haven't looked back yet. 
After a few more horsepower gets added I will probably swap cases to lower final drive and do a .71 swap.
Cheers,
nn


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

After further inspection I have discovered that 4 teeth on the new big gear have been chipped. It probably happened right away when the C-clip came out. They're not bad and I drove the car about 130 miles for the test. I'm considering driving it for a few hundred miles then checking it to see if the condition is worse. I can post a few pictures to show what the extent is. 
So Adrian, how much was just the big gear, .71?


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*
















I wonder what from... The vibration, it sounds like your vibration wasnt that bad to start with... Hmmm...


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

I think the vibration is either the fact that the shift fork isn't aligned, or that the C-clip was missing. The chipping of teeth must have come from the C-clip getting into the gears after it popped out. My C-clip had a notch on only one end. Does anyone have any idea how that's supposed to be oriented?


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhirsch123* »_I think the vibration is either the fact that the shift fork isn't aligned, or that the C-clip was missing. The chipping of teeth must have come from the C-clip getting into the gears after it popped out. My C-clip had a notch on only one end. Does anyone have any idea how that's supposed to be oriented?

i dont think orientation matters but it has to contain the three clips properly


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

Someone has told me that the notch is supposed to go underneath the locking tooth, and just make sure that the other one is anchored underneath one of the other locking teeth. I guess that means that there isn't equal force for those but then again I guess the spring stays better. Just ordered the parts - total was about 7 dollars worth, shipping was about 31.50


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*

Did you get the part numbers for the selector fork bolts?


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

No, the place just said they had a bunch of used ones and would throw some in the bag. I'll get them if I talk with them again, but it looks like Growler will be able to get to it tonight on the TDIclub site...


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

The other thing he said is only the removal of the two bolts are necessary, not removel from the shiftfork... We wouldn't have to be messing with the calibration either if we hadn't messed with it...


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (jhirsch123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhirsch123* »_The other thing he said is only the removal of the two bolts are necessary, not removel from the shiftfork... We wouldn't have to be messing with the calibration either if we hadn't messed with it...

Well I think it would be hard as hell to get the gear puller in there if we didnt take the shiftfork out?


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## DEMUS (May 12, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (numbnutz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *numbnutz* »_This is a good mod for any ride. I did the .75 swap in my '84 GTI and I haven't looked back yet. 
After a few more horsepower gets added I will probably swap cases to lower final drive and do a .71 swap.
Cheers,
nn


What can I expect with a .75 5th gear swap. I have a EKG code tranny (2.0L 5 Spd with AWP engine swap)
1ST 3.78
2ND 2.12
3RD 1.36
4TH 1.03
5TH 0.84
FINAL 4.24
Does anyone have a chart of this tranny showing expected mph gains?


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (DEMUS)*

OK, here's what not to do! I think that the vibration in fifth, because we didn't know to calibrate it before re-assembling, could have caused the c-spring to pop out and feed itself to my 5th gear set for lunch. In the process, four of the big gear teeth were partially chipped. After we opened it up to calibrate 5th, I noticed the c-spring laying there. Also, my C's only had one notch, which apparently should be anchored undertneath one of the three detenses (locking teeth), not right next to it. I plan to run it this way but for very long, just until I get the new gear...
Chip1:








Chip1:








Chip2:








Chip3:








Chip4:








Where to anchor a C-spring with only one notch:








Anyone think I'll have big problems with the damaged gear?
If anyone wants higher res pictures I have them.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (jhirsch123)*

Just got back from a 800 mi. road trip, best milage was 35mpg with the new 5th gear. Averaged 32.5 for the whole trip. Not only does it get better milage its SO much quieter while cruising. 

If you do a lot of highway driving you could even go with the .68 gear since I was at 2850rpm @ 80mph


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## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (judoGTI)*

wouldn't the drop in rpm's from 4th to 5th with a .68 would be to much? i'm thinking it might be.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (heysuperman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heysuperman* »_wouldn't the drop in rpm's from 4th to 5th with a .68 would be to much? i'm thinking it might be.

If you do a lot of highway driving I think it would be perfect. If you do a lot of city driving I think you'd want the .717


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## jhirsch123 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (judoGTI)*

I'm not so sure, I've got the 3.65 final and went to a .717. I think it will be great from I've test drive with it. I think the .68 would be a little too low, even with a chip... but I'd like to see someone try it out







People thought I wouldn't like the .717 because it was too tall, but I liked so much I bought another one


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## GiddyGTI (Sep 28, 2005)

so where can i get the .717 set for EHA tranny?


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (GiddyGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GiddyGTI* »_so where can i get the .717 set for EHA tranny?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/show...ge=17


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

thanks Judo








or here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=121801 http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif 
Adrian


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## beachball6 (Apr 22, 2003)

and up because i finally sent the money! cant wait


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## GiddyGTI (Sep 28, 2005)

just sent paypal now too... hope 273 is correct amount.


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## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

Just a quick update. I put in my 0.717 last week (I have 3.938 final).
I've driven about 1100 miles since then. I've only gone through 3 tanks of gas thus far, so I don't have enough data to really say how things will look long term, but as of right now, my MPG's increased almost 1 mpg. I had averaged 26.2 previously, and during these 3 tanks, I am averaging 27.1. Again, I'll wait until I have more data to see how it settles, but for right now it's at least in the right direction.
I should also note that when I put in the taller 5th gear, I also put in an LSD, a single mass 228 flywheel and a different clutch. All of those bits were heavier than the stock parts, so they are likely hurthing MPG rather than helping. Nonetheless, just wanted to note that for completeness sake.
Also today I broke 400 miles on a tank, which was one of my hopes.
See all of my mileage data here:
http://ctny.audiworld.com/mark/golf/mileage/
Mark


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## david_594 (May 16, 2004)

Glad to hear people here are loving their new 5th gears. It does make for very happy highway cruising. 
I know I enjoy turning 2500 at 80mph indicated.


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## Schoolbus (Feb 24, 2000)

Also, here is the theoretical RPM-vs-Speed graphs for my 3 cars. I know some of the lines are hard to see at first, but I'm sure if you take your time you'll see where they all are. What I notice is that my Golf's old 5th gear (solid yellow) was identical to my S4's 5th gear (dashed yellow). My new (0.717) 5th gear(solid ivory) (still with my standard 3.938 final) is now identical to my S4's 6th gear (dashed teal - hard to see, directly under the solid ivory).








Note: these are indeed *theoretical* based on a sold circular tire of the stock dimensions listed. In reality, these values change as the tire isn't a solid circle. Since I computed these all in the same method, I feel they are valid to compare to each other. Separately, I have found that the actual Speed-vs-RPM that the car's computer sees is different, and I have also noted that the gauges are also different from that. I'll leave all of that for a separate conversation as it's not directly applicable here.
Regards,
Mark


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (Schoolbus)*

Good times, Im working through my first 'city driving' tank right now. Ill let everyone know. On the highway I think a 450mi tank is completely possible.


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## jimmytj (Nov 18, 2005)

hey, will someone please repost this mythical PDF file describing the gear swap... every link that i can find for it is dead... or just email to [email protected]
thanks a lot!!


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (jimmytj)*

Check here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/show...ge=14
Adrian
I have it on my desktop. i'll try emailing it to you...



_Modified by El Romano Loco at 12:03 PM 12-4-2005_


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re:*

Just an FYI 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2331276
"I get a consistent 3rd -> 5th gear grind when I shift at anything over 4000rpm.
Do try and fix this, would I want to replace the 5th gear synchro?
"


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (El Romano Loco)*

Adrian, I just sent you an email about a .68 gear set.


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## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (dieselgti)*

Judo, could be from not having it in right the first time, might have messed up the syncros a bit. 
FWIW, I have had "0" problems since the swap and I have put at least 5k on her so far!! (knock on wood)
Let me know if you need anything else








dieselgti, email replied.
Adrian


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (El Romano Loco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *El Romano Loco* »_Judo, could be from not having it in right the first time, might have messed up the syncros a bit. 


Yeah Im just trouble shooting, not saying its an invalid mod at all.


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## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

is the offer still good?


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## bh123 (Jul 17, 2006)

*Re: (david_594)*

Hello,
Has this be researched for an automatic, if so if this practical ? or is this too radical a change for automatics ? (software, mechanics, etc...)


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## mudanddust (Oct 24, 2007)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (El Romano Loco)*

bump


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## fobyulous (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: Finally did it - .71 5th Gear swap... (mudanddust)*

WHOA!







someones been diggin through the archives.

interesting stuff though...wish there was something like this for the tippy


_Modified by fobyulous at 12:46 AM 10-7-2009_


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## rider4life350 (Oct 14, 2010)

Has anyone done this in the pa area? I would be very interested in this but don't know if I would be able to do it.


----------

