# Looking at Routan tomorrow, thoughts?



## sladethesleeper (Oct 28, 2011)

*Looking at Routan tomorrow, thoughts? (UPDATE)*

Looking at a new 2011 Routan SE w/ Nav and RSE. Very nice price. Was originally looking at a Mazda 5, but the price on this thing, combined with 0% for 72 months (confirmed price and financing with dealer prior to going in, it's a dealer we have a relationship with) made this one get a second glance.

So, how have people liked theirs? I know it's a reskinned Dodge with a few 'upgrades'. Has the brake issue be resolved for 2011, or should I still look at some upgraded brakes (or just check lug torque on the wheels?). I know my volvo (which this is replacing) was extremely sensitive to the lugs being overtorqued.

We've tested about every minivan but the Nissan Quest. Either the combination of options or price just have been unappealing until now. The Mazda 5 was a contender with cheap price and nice handling but lack of features hurt it. This, we can basically get for $2k more than a top line 5 (once you figure in financing offers) but with all the bells and whistles (and worst mileage unfortunatly).

Hopefully we'll really like it and I'll be joining you guys on Saturday.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

sladethesleeper said:


> Looking at a new 2011 Routan SE w/ Nav and RSE. Very nice price. Was originally looking at a Mazda 5, but the price on this thing, combined with 0% for 72 months (confirmed price and financing with dealer prior to going in, it's a dealer we have a relationship with) made this one get a second glance.
> 
> So, how have people liked theirs? I know it's a reskinned Dodge with a few 'upgrades'. Has the brake issue be resolved for 2011, or should I still look at some upgraded brakes (or just check lug torque on the wheels?). I know my volvo (which this is replacing) was extremely sensitive to the lugs being overtorqued.
> 
> ...


The fuel mileage is supposedly up on the 2011's from what the sticker says. I'd assume the brakes are still in question, haven't seen the mileages to where they begin to warp. If I was replacing my 2010 SEL, I'd be getting a 2011 SEL Premium with the sick discounts! Can't give you any advice on the Mazda 5, wife needed to get away from our Passat wagon that we out grew, and the 5 is essentially a wagon with sliding rear doors in my eyes, sorry to be blunt. And if your getting the 10K discount and 0%, I'd almost say it's foolish to look else where.


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## VWroutanvanman (Feb 12, 2011)

*Buy VW*

Buy the Routan, you won't be sorry, especially when you load up the van with people or stuff, and you'll appreciate all the amenities you get to play with with the Routan. No word from anyone about brake problems on the 2011s, and they've been out for a year now. Also, you can't beat the deals out there nowadays. The Mazda is a really nice little van, seats six, but is a bit underpowered, according to reviews I've read, but you can't beat Mazda build quality. As I reported on another post, the only problems were the rotors, which were covered by the VW dealer under warranty, otherwise zero defects. I've had 7 other Chrysler vans over the years, this one is #8, and this one is the best screwed-together van yet. Everything works, no squeaks, and the Euro-tuned suspension (from Chryslers european export van) is terrific. All in all, a good investment. My van is an SE w/RSE, 2010 with 21k miles.


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## sladethesleeper (Oct 28, 2011)

kafer, you are right, the 5 is basically a raised roof wagon with sliding doors. This vehicle is replacing my volvo wagon. It had a good run. Bought two volvos in 2001. Sold one in January with 250k miles, and will trade this one in with 150k miles. I just can't justify the current prices or quality of Volvos. 

But yeah, it's the discount that is drawing me in. $10k off is just too good to pass up. My local dodge dealer can't/won't even match the price for similarly equipped. So, we'll see how we like it tomorrow. Then, when I called to confirm they will honor the 0% financing as well with that price, too good to at least not look at. 

Guess we'll see how tomorrow morning goes. Only wish they had the gun metal grey version. They have white and glacial blue.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

sladethesleeper said:


> kafer, you are right, the 5 is basically a raised roof wagon with sliding doors. This vehicle is replacing my volvo wagon. It had a good run. Bought two volvos in 2001. Sold one in January with 250k miles, and will trade this one in with 150k miles. I just can't justify the current prices or quality of Volvos.
> 
> But yeah, it's the discount that is drawing me in. $10k off is just too good to pass up. My local dodge dealer can't/won't even match the price for similarly equipped. So, we'll see how we like it tomorrow. Then, when I called to confirm they will honor the 0% financing as well with that price, too good to at least not look at.
> 
> Guess we'll see how tomorrow morning goes. Only wish they had the gun metal grey version. They have white and glacial blue.


I know it's probably pushing it, but check other dealers in your area and find the color you want and see if they'll do a dealer trade(or if they'll match this dealer). Chances are if you tell them its XX miles away they won't want to lose your sale to that dealer.

Best of luck!:thumbup:


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## Volvos Rock (Oct 13, 2011)

slade, kinda funny we bought our 10' SE, last month and traded our 02 V70XC, on it. we were gonna go XC90 but they had a fatal flaw, two baby seats meant the only access to the third row was climbing over:banghead:. You won't be disappointed, the only thing I even kinda miss is the moonroof.


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## luckeydoug1 (Feb 11, 2001)

Make sure you do a panic stop with the van fully loaded to see if the stopping distance is acceptable to you.

I wish I would have thought to do this before we purchased our 2010 SE. The stopping distance is totally unacceptable. The brakes do warp, but the stopping distance is of bigger concern to me. The vehicle wanders quite a bit, sometimes it pulled to the left other times to the right. 

We owned our Routan for a year, and just under 7000 miles. It is the worst VW we ever owned and the second worst vehicle in nearly 40 years of automobile ownership. Yes, the prices are nice, but there is more to consider than just the price. The vehicle was used to transport 5 adults in my family on a regular basis. For the last 4 months we owned it, no one really wanted to ride in it and I was the only driver of the 4 licensed drivers in the family that would drive it.

I traded our 2010 in on a 2011 Touareg a couple of weeks ago. The trade in value was horrible, due mostly to all the incentives on the new ones. It was a trade we had to do, though. No amount of $$ was worth my family's safety. Yes, the Routan was that bad.

I am not the only other Routan owner that felt this way about the unsafe brakes. At least one other Routan owner has posted of similar safety issues with his brakes in these forums.


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## sladethesleeper (Oct 28, 2011)

I'll miss the volvos, but frankly, wasn't impressed with the new products for the asking prices.

The deal originally looked at was bum. We walked into the dealer, did the test drive, and started talking numbers. Only, they weren't adding up until I asked about the financing and thats when they started telling me the low price was not able to be combined with 0%. Fine, would have been fine with that if I had known going into the dealer. But when we went over the fact they confirmed the day before they could be combined, they tried all sorts of tactics to keep us from walking out. Even down to the classic "We are looking for your trade in keys". Yeah, give me the keys, we are gone. Again, would have been fine had we not be lied to over the phone to very specific questions the sales manager confirmed.

So, we walked out. And then we found another dealer nearby that had more Routans, and even better pricing. They also had the color we wanted (Silver, so I don't have to wash it. Loved my silver volvo). So, got out the door on a SE with RSE and Nav for $25.5, which was about $1800 less than the first VW dealer. 

But was an interesting day. We called the dealer earlier in the week to confirm pricing, and available financing terms for those prices. They were honest. My wife went in yesterday to get a copy of their loan agreement (checking for the old rule of 78s or prearranged loans) just to make sure everything was normal (they were a reputable dealer, but always gotta check). Decide to go in today and buy it. 

We are signing the paperwork, only to find the paperwork we were signing had the wrong VIN for the vehicle we were buying and that the title with the VIN for our car was given to someone else. Basically, it looked like we would have to wait to take delivery of our car until after they got the certificate of origin back from the RMV, which I'm sure is no small task. As we were leaving, a little bummed about having to wait an unknown time, our salesman (who was great before this) asked what was wrong (this all happened inside the finance office) and we explained it. We get home, and an hour later the saleman calls and says "I wanted to confirm and sort the details first, but I thought we had another silver SE with RSE and Nav on the lot. We do, and I talked with the finance manager to redo the paperwork for that vehicle so you don't have to wait for us to clear up our mess" 

A+ service. Think he will get my business next fall when I'm looking at the sportwagen.

So, early next week I'll have the Routan in my driveway.

Just at $25.5k with RSE and Nav, couldn't resist the deal. Time will tell. I guess, more importantly, the wife likes it.


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## early74B (Feb 18, 2009)

*Hope it will last a long time ...*

From your post it looks like you kept the Volvo for quite awhile ... we had two DGC's (a '90 and '97) before our '09 Routan SEL (has Navi and remote start but no RSE) and for the most part its been OK but just has a few annoyances that make me want to trade it before the warranty expires next August (brakes already mentioned, saw the 'bill' to be sent off to VW if it wasn't covered -- new front rotors and discs $780 !). I'm just not sure what we may have to deal with post-warranty -- the van is quite good on long trips which is when you'll get the best mileage; can carry much much more than your Volvo could. It's interesting that you compared it with a Mazda5 as we had one (not the latest one) as a rental just a few months ago, we also own an '06 Mazda3 hatch and '99 Miata and can speak to Mazda's build quality compared to this VW/Chrysler van. The Mazda5 we rented was a base automatic model (no Navi or leather, etc.) but pretty solid -- I was having my Mazda3 serviced at the dealer and saw the newest Mazda5 in the showroom, not wild about the new styling but they did a nice job on the interior. I'm actually waiting to see the new Mazda CX-5 which will be 'unveiled' today -- it has the new Skyactive engine which promises much better fuel economy in a nice compact package. These 2.0 L direct injection/turbo crossover/SUV's are all starting to come out (Audi Q5, Ford Edge, Mazda CX-5 and a few others) which interest me because they have the higher ride height (like the Routan) and a bit more space than wagon's but not so huge that you have to guide them into your garage like an aircraft carrier (hopefully you don't have to move it in and out of the garage for the wife -- Routan's don't have electric folding mirrors). The new Ford C-MAX Energi (plug-in hybrid) may even be a possibility. I think if you can keep on top of any warranty issues (brakes and electronics especially) you should be fine and hopefully now that we're two model years in you won't get as many recalls as the '09's. Good luck with your new Routan !!


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

early74B said:


> but just has a few annoyances that make me want to trade it before the warranty expires next August (brakes already mentioned, saw the 'bill' to be sent off to VW if it wasn't covered -- new front rotors and discs $780 !). I'm just not sure what we may have to deal with post-warranty --


Earlier this week I made an appt. for this coming Friday at the dealership to get some things done, the front brakes being one of the pending items. The fronts squeal on occasion (but fairly regularly) on the front-right, and the brake pedal has developed a strange feel to it. Nothing is grinding or pulsating, but during aggressive stops it certainly doesn't feel quite "right" and doesn't exude confidence in the braking system. Anyway, after seeing this posting about nearly $800 for just _front_ brakes, I called the dealership back and asked them how much it would be for pads and rotors on the front, worst case scenario. He said $530 for pads & rotors and $220-$230 if it just needs pads. Including labor, out the door price. Not quite $800, but holy crap. $500+ for pads and rotors for just one axle is ridiculous. Even for a dealership.

It's hard to top $300 just for parts/supplies for primo aftermarket (vented + slotted rotors, and Hawk pads), and labor isn't $200 for a front brake job. So how the dealership is coming up with $500-$800 for a front brake job blows my mind.

I called the indie shop I've taken my non-VWs to for years, and getting fronts and backs done with his super-duper, ultra, primo parts comes out just under $800. He even apologized, sort of, at the quote for being so high. And that's front and back. Where is the dealer coming up with $500-$800 for just the fronts? Our Routan is at 51k miles and my indie guy said he would be really surprised if it needed new rotors already. When I told him it would be at least the third set on this vehicle, he said that was unheard of for any vehicle with that kind of mileage. His shop has been open for a long long time before I started taking my vehicles to him, and I started taking cars to him in 1991. Wow.


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## VWroutanvanman (Feb 12, 2011)

*Chinese parts?*

You may have heard of the Mustang Chinese transmission parts failures, and Chinese tire failures, and all the other Chinese manufacturing problems, killing their children, and our dogs. I read somewhere that the head of Chrysler purchasing loved Chinese parts, or at least their lower costs. I can imagine that a boatload of Chinese rotors probably were used for the '09 and '10 model years. Poor quality from China strikes again, and kills any good will people have had for our Routans. A stupid purchasing decision affects the new car buying decisions for years to come......... I bought a new Chevrolet Malibu in '79, and had a leaky rear-end seal from the day I bought it off the showroom floor, and the Chevy factory rep wouldn't cover the replacement under warrantee because I had put Minilite wheels and Pirelli tires on it (said I raced it, yeah, my wifes 4 door Malibu), so I ended up replacing the seal twice a year for 5 years at my cost. The housing had been machined wrong, causing pinion bearing wobble. I promised to never buy another GM product again, and I haven't in 30 years (I do like my Routan though, and would buy another).


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## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

All due respect, if a mechanic told me that he never heard of a vehicle needing brakes this often, I wouldn't go back to him. Lots of vehicles have had brake problems. My boss' Ford Explorer Trac had brakes done 15-20k regularly. But more importantly, if the mechanic has worked on chrysler products, specifically the Journey, Caravan and Town & Country, then he would have known the brake issues. I did brakes myself on my Journey (same platform) between 15-20k. 

That said, it is a joke that they have this problem. But my local VW dealer, unlike the Chrysler dealer, replaced all rotors and pads at no cost to me, even after I was out of warranty. I was very impressed because when my journey had the problem, they said take a hike, it's not their fault. 

As to the vehicle overall, I love the Routan, I'd buy again. If they have a 2013 model that is decent, I may trade my 2010. Hopefully there will be some good improvements if they have the routan still, or maybe that nice concept van.

I almost forgot, $800 for front brakes is a rip off! Find a new dealer and never reward them again by going back. New rotors and pads are only $150-180 if you do it yourself using Napa or checker/oreilly parts. I did many, but I would go with a better rotor next time. Pads are fine, but the rotors need to be upgraded. I also went with ceramic pads from Oreilly.


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## Trail Ryder (Jul 18, 2011)

luckeydoug1 said:


> Make sure you do a panic stop with the van fully loaded to see if the stopping distance is acceptable to you.
> 
> I wish I would have thought to do this before we purchased our 2010 SE. The stopping distance is totally unacceptable. The brakes do warp, but the stopping distance is of bigger concern to me. The vehicle wanders quite a bit, sometimes it pulled to the left other times to the right.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your poor experience. So far our 2011 Routan experience has been very good. I too had heard about Routan / DCG braking issues, but other than some above normal rear brake dust, we have no complaints.

Last month we got to try them out in a panic stop from 55 MPH. We were travelling down a 5-lane road, we had a green light, and this stupid teen runs out in front of us ... thinking she could make it to the other side of the road before we got there. Well, I slammed on the brakes ... full panic stop and the Routan brakes worked great (no complaints). We missed this bimbo by inches. If we would have had our old Blazer, she would have been taking an ambulance ride for sure.

Also, the acceleration and MPG on our 2011 Routan has exceeded our expectations.


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## Trail Ryder (Jul 18, 2011)

On RockAuto.com, Raybestos HD rotors are under $51 and a set of 4 pads is $24 to $64 depending on the level of quality you want. So at most, we are talking $166 for parts per axle.

Most shops around me will install rotors and pads for under $99. And I have a couple of buddies that will do it for $40.


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## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

Trail Ryder said:


> On RockAuto.com, Raybestos HD rotors are under $51 and a set of 4 pads is $24 to $64 depending on the level of quality you want. So at most, we are talking $166 for parts per axle.
> 
> Most shops around me will install rotors and pads for under $99. And I have a couple of buddies that will do it for $40.


The Raybestos heavy duty rotors, which are listed as the Premuim or professional grade, are the same ones I put on my Journey and are a direct fit and same part number for the 2010 and 2009 Routan. In fact, I was doing rotors on the Journey so much that I bought and still have an extra set of Raybestos rotors turned and sitting at home. They can be put on the Routan later if I desire. There is no current listing for the 2011 Routan, which means they maybe a different design or the online catalog is out of date. At any rate, those rotors (part no. 780683R) did warp after about 24k miles. After the second time of doing rotors, I bought a second set to simplify the job. I kept one turned and ready for installation so I didn't have to leave the car on jacks and wait for the parts store to resurface the old ones. I can tell you that the Raybestos rotors may have warped, but they did not wear down like the OEM rotors. The OEMs were out of spec by a lot within 18k miles. But the Raybestos, while warped, could be turned and resurfaced to use again. So a better material. Based upon my research, I believe the pad to rotor surface area is too small for the weight and size of the vehicle, thereby overheating the rotors and causing them to warp. I don't know if there is a long term fix to keep the rotors from warping without upgrading the size of the rotors. Unless those really high end rotors can dissipate or tolerate heat better, which I don't know a lot about. If someone has put on the really high end rotors, I would love to know how they are doing after 20k, 30k, 40k, etcetera.

I did the front and back rotors and pads on the Journey using these rotors and the best ceramic pads I could find at the parts store. The pads lasted and the rear rotors did not warp again, at least not while I had owned it. Only the fronts kept warping.


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## Volvos Rock (Oct 13, 2011)

Unfortunately I have found that Raybestos also equals warping, in the past 5 years or so their product went to crap... I have had excellent luck with ATE Premium One rotors and akabeno pads (bonus no dust), or Brembo/Akabeno set up. If you have to pay to have brakes done do not waste your time with the VW/Chrysler junk, buy good aftermarket stuff. If the dealers gonna cover it under warranty let em have at it.


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## sladethesleeper (Oct 28, 2011)

Well, I'm finally home after a week on the road. Wife picked up the car on Thursday night to "break it in" for me. I think that meant having my son eat pretzels in it already.

I like it. Still love the look compared to the Dodge and Chrysler cousins. 

As for brakes. not really too concerned. I do my own brakes because they are easy and cheap to do. This weekend I plan to check the torque on all the lugs. If they are like my volvos, any overtorque from factory spec = warped rotors. The volvos were 81 ft-lbs. you take it to a dealership or a brake shop, and 99% of the time they will air gun them on to around 300 ft-lbs. I think these are supposed to be around 95 for the routans. So tomorrow, I'll pull out the jack, air gun them off and reset the torque on them. 

My volvo brakes lasted forever though. My first 98 volvo lasted 100k miles on the original rotors. Lots of highway though. 

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with the one volvo I have left. Got a 98 V70 GLT sitting beside my garage now. Runs fine. Think I may still use it for awhile for some business travel. Each trip it makes me about $500 in mileage reimbursement after fuel costs. Few more trips and I may just give it to my brother in law. Just hate to get rid of it since I have new tires, rotors, pads, struts, shocks, strut mounts, shock mounts, and a new passenger side axle. Wasn't going to give it to the dealer for the $700 they offered me.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Before you take your lugs off, get 10-15 FT/LBS less than spec and incrementally work up to spec and see how far past they already are. Chances are if the dealer checked the van in they burried the lugs on with a gun. Give a guy an air gun and he's instantly HE-MAN. With all the work and restoration stuff I do that is the least used tool in my tool box, only ever used to remove the lugs and tranmission bellhousing bolts, never to install them. I prefer a good old ratchet, I like to feel how the bolts are threading in.

I'd keep running the old Volvo, if she's making you 5 bills take it. That's a nice car payment if you got one.


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## VWroutanvanman (Feb 12, 2011)

*Torque wrench usage*

Here's an interesting way to bolt on wheels: Use an air gun to run the lug nuts tight, then use a torque wrench to check the tightness. That is how a national chain mounted my wheels when I bought new tires. Kinda kills the need for a torque wrench, as the only reason they used a the t-wrench was to make sure the lug nuts were on tight ENOUGH! Were they on at the correct value? Who knows. I'll need to re-check the tightness. 58kafer is exactly right, you need to work up to the 95 ft. lb. value in increments.


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## taxman100 (Apr 30, 2011)

Another example of where having maintenance done, such as rotating tires to make them last longer, can end up costing you (or Volkswagen, if in warranty) more money.

One related comment - the energy saver tires on the 2011 do not seem to have the greatest traction - it is pretty easy to squeal the tires when turning and accelerating from a stop, or when the tires are sitting on the white paint at traffic lights when damp outside. 

On the pluse side, they are energy efficient, and are rated to last a long time. We don't drive like maniacs (in the van, at least), so the pros are important to us.


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## sladethesleeper (Oct 28, 2011)

58kafer said:


> Before you take your lugs off, get 10-15 FT/LBS less than spec and incrementally work up to spec and see how far past they already are. Chances are if the dealer checked the van in they burried the lugs on with a gun. Give a guy an air gun and he's instantly HE-MAN. With all the work and restoration stuff I do that is the least used tool in my tool box, only ever used to remove the lugs and tranmission bellhousing bolts, never to install them. I prefer a good old ratchet, I like to feel how the bolts are threading in.
> 
> I'd keep running the old Volvo, if she's making you 5 bills take it. That's a nice car payment if you got one.


I agree completely about the air guns. I restore old mustangs as a hobby. Keeping my volvo's running is my other hobby. My air gun is only used to remove stuff, never put them back on. I had one place put new tires on my volvo. I drove home and it took a fixed socket with a 3' cheater bar to free them up.

My brother in law is debating if he wants the car. Guess it doesn't fit his image (30 year old driving tuned Honda's) but he needs a car that actually runs reliably. It'll be making at least one more trip with my to Philly. But after finally driving my Routan this weekend, I can't imagine wanting to make too many more trips in it. While honestly, it's no quieter than my volvo or any smoother going down the road, I do like riding up high like I do in my pick up.


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## fraanz (Jul 3, 2003)

i wouldn't buy another. while it isn't inherently awful, it's got it's shares of issues. we've put 75k on one since feb 09. That in itself is why i say it isn't inherently awful. 

Roomier than our previous mazda mpv, and nicer. the seats are good, but the headrests are at awful positions (least favorite thing about the van.

issues we've seen:
expired a.c. hose after one year
been in for the electronic doors more times than i can count.
horrible brake components. if you change rotors stay away from OEM.
I also think the brake bias is wrong (rears wear out 2x as fast as the front).

if you can get a good deal and don't mind quirks, it's a great vehicle, but since the powerplant is a chrysler engine, see if you can get the same van for a better price with a different badge, unless you have a really nice dealership in your area.

pm me if you have any specific questions.


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

fraanz said:


> if you can get a good deal and don't mind quirks, it's a great vehicle, but since the powerplant is a chrysler engine, see if you can get the same van for a better price with a different badge, unless you have a really nice dealership in your area.


That was our initial thought as well last summer when we were shopping for a 2-yr old used minivan. But we couldn't find a Dodge or Chrysler with the 4.0L engine that wasn't significantly more than the VW. At first I didn't even consider the VW because I was under the impression that it was at the top of the pecking order from DGC, T&C, Routan - and therefore if the Dodge and Chrysler were getting out of our price-range with the options we wanted (leather, RSE, and 4.0L - which were my 3 req'ts), then I assumed the VW would be way out of our price range. So didn't even look at VW intially. Ended up finding the '09 Routan SEL for about the cost of the DGC or T&C with cloth, no RSE, and the 3.8L engine. Perhaps it was a timing issue, or luck, or whatever, but at least at that time the VW was the better deal than the Dodge or Chrysler.

In any event, we put a little over 2k miles on it over the Thanksgiving week and overall pretty happy. The RSE did its job keeping the 3 year old entertained. Got about 23.5 MPG overall (but must have been getting 26 or better with the 1 tank we filled up that didn't have any ethanol in it).

Also had the front brakes replaced before we left. As I mentioned earlier, the dealership quoted $520 for front rotors and pads, so I ended up not even taking it in to them. Went to an indie and with the Napa branded stuff, with the ceramic/semi-metallic hybrid pads and the Napa "premium" rotors. With the departure date quickly approaching I didn't have time to hunt down ATE or Brembo or Zimmerman or similar, so just went with the best the shop could get on such short notice. I will report back how well they fair. We don't seem to have a very big sampling of people using after-market brakes, since VW has mostly been replacing them under warranty with more OEM crap. So we'll see how the non-OEM stuff wears.


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