# are 268 cams to aggresive for my supercharged vr?



## skybear (Sep 27, 2010)

I am currently rebuilding my 98 12v vr6, I was orig. planning to run N/A higher compression. I was going to run 268 cams, tt hd springs, and mk4 head gasket. But I decied to supercharge it instead. Will the 268s be ok, or should I get something else? What is the ideal cam for a supercharged 12v vr? I am not going to be running the mk4 head gasket either anymore.


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

Run all the stuff you listed with the supercharger. No issues


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## 12V_VR (Aug 11, 2010)

^ x2 :thumbup:


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## skybear (Sep 27, 2010)

even the mk4 headgasket? I thought i wanted less comression for FI, not more? I am new to this, i am just going off what makes the most sense.


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

What boost are you planning on? A low boost/high(ish) comp setup is lots of fun


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## skybear (Sep 27, 2010)

whatever votech stg 1 is 6-8lbs maybe?


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## Banana.Phone (Jun 3, 2008)

*FV-QR*

I had almost the exact question. Curious about the head gasket as well


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

MEKA NECK said:


> whatever votech stg 1 is 6-8lbs maybe?


You have nothing to worry about. The mk4 gasket is better for holding cylinder pressure since its metal and not fiber. 
I built a vrt with a mk4 hg with stock internals and 11-13psi. 
Great car to drive on and of boost


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## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

i have been running schrick 268, mk4 gasket and 13 psi on a V1 ( with w/m) in the wifes cabriolet for 2 years now with no issues. the 268's feel a lot better then the 262's i had in it before


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## Banana.Phone (Jun 3, 2008)

*FV-QR*

I've heard from a few people 256s for s/c. What would the difference be? Would you lose a bit of TQ with the 268s?


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## zwogti (Jan 11, 2004)

moving the power band up, few extra HP up top, torque loss is minimum or none, but car will few much stronger up top, since you don't race below 4k rpm you should go with the 268* cams.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

Run the 268's and ditch the MK4 HG as it causes detonation issues. 268's on 10-17psi is


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## skybear (Sep 27, 2010)

What about tuning? Who makes a chip for sc and 268s?


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

Standalone. Only the GIAC chip is any good for SC applications if you want longevity.


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## skybear (Sep 27, 2010)

So I can buy a chip from GIAC for what I need?


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

MEKA NECK said:


> So I can buy a chip from GIAC for what I need?


Are you running a VF kit? They are the only kit that comes with GIAC. 

AMS style using V1's used their own software that is pretty good, but it is hard to find these days (only used) 

If you run the VF engineering kit, you need to run stock cams due to that is what the software is written for.

Check out this thread for lots of information. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...rged-reference-thread*-specs-setups-et-cetera

-Noah


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## skybear (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks for the link :thumbup:

I am looking into a used setup, and I want the v1 charger with 268 cams. So apparently my options are limited to an Ams or C2 kit? I like GIAC software, but I don't like the idea of using stock cams.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

MEKA NECK said:


> Thanks for the link :thumbup:
> 
> I am looking into a used setup, and I want the v1 charger with 268 cams. So apparently my options are limited to an Ams or C2 kit? I like GIAC software, but I don't like the idea of using stock cams.



Then standalone is your only real option, check out Lugtronic PNP setup.


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## skybear (Sep 27, 2010)

Ok. I will check that out. Is standalone something I can do myself?


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

MEKA NECK said:


> Ok. I will check that out. Is standalone something I can do myself?



Yes, the Lugtronic plugs into your stock harness.


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## skybear (Sep 27, 2010)

Just looked into it. $1,300!!! that's a little salty. You don't think the chances of finding a used Ams kit with software are very good? Btw. I appreciate the help.


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## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

You could not pay me to run GIAC s/w on my car... Nothing but Jeff Atwood tunes on all my FI cars( 3 cars) no issues at all, drive like stock, been on boost since 2006


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## skybear (Sep 27, 2010)

What company does he work for? And do
You send out for his software?


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

MEKA NECK said:


> Just looked into it. $1,300!!! that's a little salty. You don't think the chances of finding a used Ams kit with software are very good? Btw. I appreciate the help.



They show up every once in a while on here for sale, kits range from 2k-3k or so. As for the standalone....Having used chip tunes for the past 8 years for VR6's, now I will only use GIAC for dizzy and MK3 VR6's for 268's in N/A form. Anything with boost, either turbo or supercharged gets standalone in order to save money in the long term. 

Supercharger $2,000
Differential $950
Brackets/pullies/injectors $1000
Standalone $1300

***Note that standalone allows the ditching of the MAF sensor so it does not need to be mounted in a way that can suck up water (just put a filter on the inlet of the blower) which simplifies the setup in reliability and ease of maintenance as standalones us MAP sensors, so you can eliminate the diverter piping and such and run a BOV***

Standalone is priced pretty reasonably considering that you can pick up a book and learn how to tune your own car and dial in any additional mods you do (E85/Race Gas Files/Cam Changes) 

Dont get me wrong, MAF based chip tunes work....however they cannot ever compare to full control over the systems of the car. Yet the more you expand away from the original setup the file was built on, the worse the setup runs. The system adapts some what, but never to its full potential and within safe operation levels. Changes in intake manifolds, exhaust, intercoolers, throttle bodys, injectors and turbo's and superchargers all change the way the car runs. 


You can go with a chip file and be perfectly happy. But out of my experience pushing both turbo and supercharger setups to their limits, I have found that standalone is better in every way, other than it has a higher entry price.


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## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

MEKA NECK said:


> What company does he work for? And do
> You send out for his software?


Unitedmotorsports is his new company , he used to be the tuner at C2.


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## skybear (Sep 27, 2010)

i see what you mean. I am not going to be daiy driving the mk2vr s/c, but i do want it relaiable enough I can drive a couple hrs away with no worries. I would idealy want an AMS kit. 

So what do you say to that? And where would I post a wtb on an AMS kit?


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## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

I have driven my wifes cabriolet straight from west Texas to northern Virginia with no issues. your setup will be reliable if you use quality parts and maintain it correct, it may take a few weeks to get everything dialed in on the car after you get it together.


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## skybear (Sep 27, 2010)

are you talking about the c2 setup? or standalone??

I am leaning towards a used c2 setup, only because of the price of standalone. Although i prob would run standalone if I had the extra doh..


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## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

i am running a c2 tune from 2006-7 ish


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

DeckManDubs said:


> Run the 268's and ditch the MK4 HG as it causes detonation issues. 268's on 10-17psi is


Care to explain this? I run 25 psi on pump gas and a 9.6 to 1 comp ratio


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## skybear (Sep 27, 2010)

Hmm


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

.therealvrt said:


> Care to explain this? I run 25 psi on pump gas and a 9.6 to 1 comp ratio


That is definitely doable but the Mk4 gasket is not 9.6:1. Beyond that I don't get his comment either.


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> That is definitely doable but the Mk4 gasket is not 9.6:1. Beyond that I don't get his comment either.


What im saying is with a 1pt comp drop i run alot of boost. No det issues.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

.therealvrt said:


> What im saying is with a 1pt comp drop i run alot of boost. No det issues.


Yep but you are still ~ 1 pt lower than a Mk4 gasket. Unless he is running w/m, e85, standalone etc he is not gonna want to run anywhere near what you are running for boost. On a Mk4 headgasket, pump gas and chip tune the most I have run "comfortably" was ~14 psi. The whole "ditch the Mk4 gasket it causes detoation" is kinda misleading though.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

.therealvrt said:


> Care to explain this? I run 25 psi on pump gas and a 9.6 to 1 comp ratio



MK4 gasket raises the compression beyond what GIAC/C2/AMS/UM tuned for.


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> Yep but you are still ~ 1 pt lower than a Mk4 gasket. Unless he is running w/m, e85, standalone etc he is not gonna want to run anywhere near what you are running for boost. On a Mk4 headgasket, pump gas and chip tune the most I have run "comfortably" was ~14 psi. The whole "ditch the Mk4 gasket it causes detoation" is kinda misleading though.


 Yes. My point was that a 10.5 to 1 motor at the boost levels supercharger kits run are not an issue for chips and det issues are something else. I have run 11-13psi on a mk3 vrt with a mk4 hg no problems


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## skybear (Sep 27, 2010)

so unless I go with standalone, I am going to run the stock mk3 head gasket.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

MEKA NECK said:


> so unless I go with standalone, I am going to run the stock mk3 head gasket.



Correct. If over 13psi you should to drop the compression to 9.0:1 unless fitting an intercooler setup. I have first hand experience with MK4 HG's causing detonation on SC setups.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

.therealvrt said:


> I have run 11-13psi on a mk3 vrt with a mk4 hg no problems


Agreed.

I'm actually in the process of doing another FI project that will use the Mk4 gasket but the car will not see more than 12 psi. Works out well for on/off boost combination.


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