# 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

Here's the beginning of my 4motion project thread. I bought my bug new in 2000 and is Reflex yellow and a 1.8t. I'm using the rear end and transmission from an Audi TT, and an aftermarket haldex controller instead of the original setup. Right now I'm concentrating on getting the floor of the TT into the rear of the Bug. I've been doing body work for a long time now, and others have done it, so I'm going to try







Here are some pics of the TT rear clip I bought. Yes, the parts I need are good (Amazingly). I'm going to start by chopping this up for the parts I need. Then I'll cut my bug apart. I decided to buy the clip minus the suspension because the JY wanted too much money for it. I'll start searching for a less expensive one when I'm ready. So for now, the floor and gastank will suffice. Everything else on the shell is for sale... The gascap is not saveable, but the wing is mint if anyones interested... I'll post pics again next week when I get the clip dismantled and start cutting
























Anyone need a left rear quarter? HA!


----------



## a1only (Nov 22, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

Ambitious! I love it!


----------



## radgti8v (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (a1only)*

Lets hear some of the info you have about how to procede with this swap please.


----------



## DubG60 (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (radgti8v)*

Whats this aftermarket Haldex controller??? I was lookni at a TT set-up but I dont have a compatible OEM system for it (and was considerin Audi 80 rear ends too) But you may have found me an out


----------



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

As the theory goes, all MK4s are relatively the same... I am cutting the rear floor pan out from the rear of the floor where your feet do, to the rear where the bumper mounts, and between the inner fenders. The frame rails in the back are different as well as all the panels inbetween. The gas tank is different, and that's hopefully all. It looks and measures like the TT pan will slide in OK once I get everything removed. I did a ton of homework before this attempt. Right now I'm just concentrating on the rear. The front bolts together with no major work to put the TT trans and transfer case in. I found the haldex controller on I think the European Forge Motorsports site. It was there... so if you can't find it you can call. It hink it's down for maintenance as I can't get into it... but I know the link is good







http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/index.asp I believe it is stand alone. You can bias the front and rear manually... solves a lot of my electronic nightmares too







I think it was around $1,000... still cheap compared to the time getting the factory setup to work right.


_Modified by reflexbug at 8:38 AM 9-27-2003_


----------



## Whitelake (May 27, 2002)

*I am sure you will love me soon *

Hey Reflex ;-)
I bet if you read the next reply you will love me for a serious period of time!







)
How about a detail view of a 4Motion New Beetle Chassis?
You like the idea ;-)
GO - read ahead








wbr from the Labs
whitelake


----------



## Whitelake (May 27, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

Rearview undercarriage 1-5
http://www.pixum.de/viewalbum/?id=976706

More?









*approved/improved link*



_Modified by Whitelake at 8:56 PM 9-27-2003_


----------



## punkassjim (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (Whitelake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Whitelake* »_Rearview undercarriage 1-5
http://www.pixum.de/members/rf...c1034 
More?









tragically, the link is broken. He no love you, methinks.
btw...click...bookmark! can't wait to see more!


----------



## elicitvr6 (Jan 10, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

Would this swap be possible in a MKIII Jetta? I've been curious about it for a long time but nobody seems to be able to tell me if it would work or not.
Kudos to you to doin' it. That's gunna be one bad a$$ bug when it's done. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## punkassjim (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (elicitvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elicitvr6* »_Would this swap be possible in a MKIII Jetta? I've been curious about it for a long time but nobody seems to be able to tell me if it would work or not.
Kudos to you to doin' it. That's gunna be one bad a$$ bug when it's done. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I think what you need to do is look up the wheelbase of your car and compare it to the wheelbase of all the 4motion/Quattro vehicles you can think of. If you can find a similar wheelbase, it can probably be done.
Syncro would be easier, though...it's been done a few times, and personally I'd prefer the Syncro system anyway.


----------



## farchuki (Sep 22, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (punkassjim)*

Jim...
why would you prefer the syncro system? Im just looking for opinions. Good luck Reflex.


----------



## punkassjim (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (farchuki)*

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not sure I have my facts straight, but I've always preferred the AWD systems that were based on a viscous coupling. My brother has a 1990 BMW 325iX, and the slight rearward bias on that system is perfect. I've never driven a Syncro vehicle, but from what I've heard about its components, it is VW's closest cousin to the iX all-wheel-drive system. I remember someone detailing the 4motion system on the boards somewhere, and I didn't like the complexity of the system, or the inherent qualities...I can't remember now, but there was something about the 4motion system that seemed less desirable to me.


----------



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

I have gotten the clip, and it's on the trailer and in the garage. My trusty sawzall in hand, I began to cut. There are a lot of good parts on this, so I have to be really careful. I cleaned all the garbage out of it and saved anything good, then vacumed all the glass out I could, and got to work... I removed the seats, the passengers is good enough to recover and the drivers side is junk. My thoughts before I started were that if I ruined all the metal to get to what I want, so be it... and everything is already junk, so I don't feel bad. I started with the drivers side rear quarter. I have since made more progress than in the pics, but you get the idea. I now have it so only the pass side quarter is on, no drivers side, rear seats or rear apron. I found a nice 6 disk changer while cutting the drivers side apart







The pic is with the drivers quarter skin peeled off. Audis are made well, I'll give them that. This is a pain to cut apart. Tere's lots of bracing on a TT that isn't on a Beetle... or rather... not on anyone elses







no wonder they're so much stiffer. I need to replace both the frame rails on the drivers side. They're just to twisted to save... Since I'm going this far, I want everything to be straight when I put it in the Bug, so I'll spend the few hundred more. I'll update again tomorrow with pics of it torn down to just the pan.


----------



## punkassjim (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *reflexbug* »_I need to replace both the frame rails on the drivers side. They're just to twisted to save... Since I'm going this far, I want everything to be straight when I put it in the Bug, so I'll spend the few hundred more.

so wait a minute...you're actually going to graft the rear clip from the Audi onto the NB? Wow, I didn't realize it was going to require such a structural change. Why can't you use the NB's frame rails? Wrong dimensions?


----------



## dbottles (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (punkassjim)*

http://www.davesport.com/cgi-b....html
Nice guy rallys a 4wd NB.


----------



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

The frame is actually similar, but the Audi rear is structurally better (Lots more steel), all the mounts are already welded on, and are in the right place. I also want to swap the shallower floor in the trunk so I can run a TT exhaust


----------



## slowgti (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (dbottles)*

thats a syncro swap


----------



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

Yup, I just emailed Dave and he confirms it's a Passat G60 Syncro swap. Nicely done though


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

Can I share some stuff to this? 
Matt (my 4Motion buddy in case you read this) I hope you don't mind my contributing some input for this thread, it's one way we both see this and my project come to life. thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 









































Is it okay to join this 4Motion club?










_Modified by atoson at 2:23 AM 10-7-2003_


----------



## radgti8v (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (atoson)*

I want to know how much hp a syncro set up can handle before it starts acting up? Also do you know of any tuners that sell parts to beef the system up? I have asked this before but I haven't got the answers I am looking for.
Thanks


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (radgti8v)*

This one went for almost $3k


----------



## punkassjim (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (atoson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atoson* »_This one went for almost $3k

That's not really what he was asking.
If you want to beef up the propshaft of the driveshafts on the Syncro system, get in touch with the people at http://www.driveshaftshop.com ...they custom-make driveshafts rated up to 500hp. If you're likely to exceed that, then you're the type of person who probably knows where to get better stuff at that point. The rear differential and transmission with xfer case can be beefed up too, but I'm not familiar with where to have that done.
If you want more power and more sturdy components, I'd suggest building your own setup from the AWD transmission of your choice, a modified Haldex controller and custom prop/driveshafts. The Syncro setup was originally intended for cars with 150-200hp. I wouldn't trust it with anything over 250, even with the custom shafts. That rear diff might disintegrate.


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (punkassjim)*

sorry I get excited when my knowledge base starts to absorb more info.


----------



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

Instead of the factory Haldex controller, I've got another trick up my sleeve to manually bias the front and rear wheels


----------



## gruppe5 (May 10, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

Doug??? Is that you??? Is that Clint's rabbit there in the background??? What up, it Malcolm... you just can't make up your mind on what you want to do can you???? come by the house and see the new project, maybe we will finish them at the same time, BTW, I moved to manchester, get my number from kevin and get in touch.


----------



## radgti8v (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (punkassjim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *punkassjim* »_
That's not really what he was asking.
If you want to beef up the propshaft of the driveshafts on the Syncro system, get in touch with the people at http://www.driveshaftshop.com ...they custom-make driveshafts rated up to 500hp. If you're likely to exceed that, then you're the type of person who probably knows where to get better stuff at that point. The rear differential and transmission with xfer case can be beefed up too, but I'm not familiar with where to have that done.
If you want more power and more sturdy components, I'd suggest building your own setup from the AWD transmission of your choice, a modified Haldex controller and custom prop/driveshafts. The Syncro setup was originally intended for cars with 150-200hp. I wouldn't trust it with anything over 250, even with the custom shafts. That rear diff might disintegrate.

Thanks, I sent you a email.


----------



## slowgti (Jul 15, 2003)

how are you going to control the 4motion system manualy? maybe controling the voltage of the wheel speed sensors? please im i would like to do a 4motion swap myself and am looking for info.


----------



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

Malcom baby! waassssuuuuupppp?! Yup, that's the Clint car








Almost runs... just got to finish wiring it... I noticed you're talking 20v... If you don't have a 20v top end yet... I've got the complete setup including turbo from my Bug I may be willing to part with







I'll call Vega and get your number







As you noticed... I've got a new project too







never enought time or money though


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

you've got mail! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Cabrio1.8T (Jan 6, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *reflexbug* »_never enought time or money though









Coming from the guy who has a 2000 Bug trying to Syncro.







I'm not alone!









I saw this setup on Ebay, didn't get to see what it got up to.
Basically this is a bump for you, And a bit of Good Luck for you!


----------



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

Here are some more progress pics... as you can see from the first pic, there is a bit more damage than originally though, so I'll end up cutting that out of the way and replaceing with dealer parts. The tank is out, and the rest of everything underneath is stripped out, so a little more trimming and I'll start drilling spot welds. There's only around like 1,000 of them







Can't wait. But it'll be a super clean swap, so it'll be worth it... or that's what I'm going to keep telling myself. By next week I hope to be ready to start disassembling my Bug. Maybe be cutting that apart by the beginning of November. If all goes well, this may take less time than expected. Anyways, here are the new pics with more cut away... I'll post more later in the week with the rest of the passenger rear quarter cut away before I start drilling welds out.


----------



## OZ jetta (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

where do you have the time and money for this swap if you don't mind me asking? Because i have a 1.8t that i won't have time to finish till spring break.


----------



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

I don't sleep


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

Doug, any way you can shoot under the donor to give us a better look at it?


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (atoson)*

this guy seems to have an air spring suspension.


----------



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

Sure, I'll post some underneath pics tomorrow


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## orangea2vr6 (Jan 25, 2001)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

Hear are some pics I found While researching for my swap.

















































Pics of underside on my donor TT










_Modified by orangea2vr6 at 4:42 PM 10-9-2003_


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (orangea2vr6)*

Hey, this are pretty good, no, they are really great. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (orangea2vr6)*

onrangea2vr6, these are awesome. I can see from the pics that they used the stock panel under the rear seat and only changed the frame rails and trunk floor. It also looks like they used the TT gas tank. It looks easy enough to do


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

doug, any ideas you can come up with to minimize the cost of this project?


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (atoson)*

here are some more resources.
$850.00 4Motion rear hanger assy








$350.00 Golf/Jetta 4 Motion Tank








I spoke to Ron of Denon Performance (AKA original Ron's Parts) and asked him whether he could supply the floor. He mentioned that his doing the same project for his car in 2-3 weeks. He scouted the floor and said he'll call me when he's ready (maybe a group buy), really ain't sure what he meant but sounds like a good idea. As long as it's not asking extreme oomph from your bank account, that would be the ticket for me. 
_Modified by atoson at 7:27 PM 10-9-2003_


_Modified by atoson at 8:32 AM 10-12-2003_


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (atoson)*

Q: Is the red circled area the only piece you need from the donor or is it together with the yellow too?


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (atoson)*

Any updates regarding this topic?


----------



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (atoson)*

I believe you only need the red circled areas. I'll let you know tomorrow for sure as I can look under the rear seat of my car. I hope that's the case, because I've already cut through mine (needed replaceing anyways). But if you can use your stock underseat, you need to at least cut a hole for the other gas tank unit. I need to post more pics tomorrow, I've almost got mine all apart ready to go into the bug, so I'll start cutting the bug apart next week. I also noticed in the pics Orangea2vr6 posted, that shop must be in Europe, because the spare tire well is a eurospec part... there's no depression in the bottom of the spare tire well like in his donor for the evap stuff. Just an observation







They also didn't weld on the spare tire hold down bracket at the front of the well. If you look and study it... they used the original underseat panel, but welded a reinforcement on the top of it, hence the piece of bent sheet steel. That's not a dealer part... it only comes attatched to the underseat panel when you order it from the dealer, not available by itself. It's an important structural part to add if you're piecing together one from dealer parts and don't have a clip.


_Modified by reflexbug at 11:11 AM 10-11-2003_


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

I think it's local since they use a Lincon jack.


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (atoson)*

doug, you're in good hands bro http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif can't really say anything but thanks and good luck. check your mail


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

doug, hope everything is fine with you dude.
ed


----------



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*

Unfourtunatly I have had a change of circumstances, and am no longer to be able to do this project. Life happens







Thanks,
Doug


----------



## punkassjim (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (reflexbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *reflexbug* »_Unfourtunatly I have had a change of circumstances, and am no longer to be able to do this project. Life happens







Thanks,
Doug

are you ok? building a quattro bug one week, selling it the next. what happened? this is too bad man, I was looking forward to your progress. Hope everything is well.


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (punkassjim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *punkassjim* »_
are you ok? building a quattro bug one week, selling it the next. what happened? this is too bad man, I was looking forward to your progress. Hope everything is well.

the legacy will continue over here http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## radgti8v (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (atoson)*

So whats it going in ???


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 4Motion swap into 2000 New Beetle (radgti8v)*

2k gti vr6/t


----------

