# Cadillac ATS versus A3



## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

I had an opportunity to drive a new ATS 2.0 recently and I have to say - the dynamics of that car were impressive. 

Has anyone else checked out the ATS and put any thought into replacing their A3 with one?


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

Saw one for the first time up close yesterday. It was AWD and loaded. Looked fantastic! Wayyy better in person than in pictures.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

A good friend of mine has one, and its a great drive.

I would consider it seriously (as it actually has a manual option) but I cannot stand the oily gloss-black dash with the haptic touch buttons, nor the rear end/trunk styling.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

djdub said:


> Saw one for the first time up close yesterday. It was AWD and loaded. Looked fantastic! Wayyy better in person than in pictures.


I've driven one twice: the 3.6 (I think it was), and the 2.0. I was absolutely blown away by the handling and overall dynamics of the car. Steering, turn in, body control - everything was just incredible.

My gripes would be on the interior. Those damned haptec controls need to die yesterday.

That said, the ability to lease a manual transmission, 2.0 ATS with everything except navigation, 3/36 for around $325 with about $775 out of pocket is *really* appealing. Since Audi won't give me the Sportback and now they won't give me a 6MT option...why not at least take a stab at a car with substantially better handling characteristics?

I never thought I'd ever even consider a Cadillac, but this puppy is definitely on my radar now.


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

I sat in one and had huge issues with the touch controls and their inconsistent behavior. I also found the trunk to be incredibly small. Finally, and this is going to sound very petty, but the center arm rest was too short and the leading edge of the U shaped cutout dug into my elbow when I rested it there, which is something I like to do when I drive.

Ultimately, I am more interested in the straight line performance of an S3, and the ATS 2.0T doesn't quite measure up in that department. 

Having said all that, I applaud GM for their impressive efforts with the ATS. Perhaps an ATS-V might be worth waiting for?


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

no matter how hard cadillac tries to make it seem like their car is performance oriented. It is still only grandpas buying their car. The CTS has one of the lowest pct of young buyers.


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

I have looked at the ATS, but the prices are high..... At those prices I would rather buy a Merc C350


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

VeeDubDriver said:


> I sat in one and had huge issues with the touch controls and their inconsistent behavior. I also found the trunk to be incredibly small. Finally, and this is going to sound very petty, but the center arm rest was too short and the leading edge of the U shaped cutout dug into my elbow when I rested it there, which is something I like to do when I drive.
> 
> Ultimately, I am more interested in the straight line performance of an S3, and the ATS 2.0T doesn't quite measure up in that department.
> 
> Having said all that, I applaud GM for their impressive efforts with the ATS. Perhaps an ATS-V might be worth waiting for?


So, here's the funny thing: I went and drove one again this evening and damn if that arm rest didn't irritate the crap out of me. The center console positioning is actually really uncomfortable unless you have a tall torso or place your seat very high.


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## t.oorboh! (Feb 11, 2012)

ATS is on my radar as well. :thumbup:


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

Travis Grundke said:


> So, here's the funny thing: I went and drove one again this evening and damn if that arm rest didn't irritate the crap out of me. The center console positioning is actually really uncomfortable unless you have a tall torso or place your seat very high.


It is often the little things, that you don't notice on that first test drive, that can sour the ownership experience.


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## 02GOLFGTI1.8T (Feb 13, 2002)

my 0.02 cents, it took vag group a while to make the 2.0T engine reliable, to me the GM engine does not have enough of a track record yet...


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

VeeDubDriver said:


> It is often the little things, that you don't notice on that first test drive, that can sour the ownership experience.


Bingo. The car is an absolute blast to drive, however. It has a LOT going for it. The two downsides for me were the positioning of the armrest and the fact that the 2.0T was actually pretty coarse sounding for a $43,000 car.


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## lotuselan (Apr 9, 2008)

I had a difficult time with the manual gearbox.


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## mookieblaylock (Sep 25, 2005)

lotuselan said:


> I had a difficult time with the manual gearbox.


seems kind of a nice car but awd in auto only so i would probably want the 6 cyl which probably ends up stupid expensive


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

i have to tell you shopping for a sport sedan has been an exercise in frustration so far. 

the ats was surprisingly good but no manual with awd. i had a chance to drive the rwd manual but the shifter was quite notchy. the silly packaging ended making this car as much or more than a 3 series 

the cla. no manual. could have seen that coming from a mile away. no 4matic until next year. 

the q50. no new engines and they killed the manual. 

lexus IS. they killed the manual and it's the ugliest car i have seen in quite sometime.

bmw 3 series. no manual with awd. the base 328i with manual was quite good but you definitely have to go for the sport line or m sport or your getting the all new soften up dumbed down 3 series. ultimately the m sport package is not avail on the 328i in canada and the sportline doesn't get sport suspension. :banghead:

a3/s3 sedan. no manual. this is like a dagger to the heart. it was like the obiwan kenobi of this group for me. i thought for sure they would bring the manual. more :banghead:

a4. it's at the end of it's run. would be interested in the replacement. i've heard rumours it's coming next fall?


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

kevlartoronto said:


> i have to tell you shopping for a sport sedan has been an exercise in frustration so far.
> 
> the ats was surprisingly good but no manual with awd. i had a chance to drive the rwd manual but the shifter was quite notchy. the silly packaging ended making this car as much or more than a 3 series
> 
> ...


At the risk of stating the obvious, have you looked at the Golf R?


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

the golf R is awesome but it's just that little bit too small. 2 young kids=stuff. i love smaller cars so i end up battling the "stuff war" all the time. i'm still winning that battle.


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

kevlartoronto said:


> the golf R is awesome but it's just that little bit too small. 2 young kids=stuff. i love smaller cars so i end up battling the "stuff war" all the time. i'm still winning that battle.


I understand that. I have a seven year old and the R works for us, but we always have the option of folding half the seats down for more room on a trip. With two kids, obviously that option disappears.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

VeeDubDriver said:


> I understand that. I have a seven year old and the R works for us, but we always have the option of folding half the seats down for more room on a trip. With two kids, obviously that option disappears.


believe me that car has been hovering on my radar for awhile. i wonder of the golf VII will come with the R first thing.....dreaming.....i am now wondering if i can actually fold and buy a paddle shifter equipped vehicle.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

As to the A4, it should bow sometime in 2014, probably later in the year, which puts it in North America likely sometime in CY2015. No doubt Audi is planning on the new A3 sedan cannibalizing some A4 sales, but expect the next A4 to make a substantial leap forward in both dynamics and design. Latest word is that they're aiming for a 200+ lb. weight reduction and some substantial powertrain changes. Expect it to also employ the new design language that is likely to debut on the next Q7 this fall.



kevlartoronto said:


> i have to tell you shopping for a sport sedan has been an exercise in frustration so far.
> 
> the ats was surprisingly good but no manual with awd. i had a chance to drive the rwd manual but the shifter was quite notchy. the silly packaging ended making this car as much or more than a 3 series
> 
> ...


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

Travis Grundke said:


> As to the A4, it should bow sometime in 2014, probably later in the year, which puts it in North America likely sometime in CY2015. No doubt Audi is planning on the new A3 sedan cannibalizing some A4 sales, but expect the next A4 to make a substantial leap forward in both dynamics and design. Latest word is that they're aiming for a 200+ lb. weight reduction and some substantial powertrain changes. Expect it to also employ the new design language that is likely to debut on the next Q7 this fall.


they could easily have a A4 that's 200LB less by selling a barebone model that has every feature being an option, from AC to radio to heavy thick interior materials.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

LWNY said:


> they could easily have a A4 that's 200LB less by selling a barebone model that has every feature being an option, from AC to radio to heavy thick interior materials.


...and that five people would buy. 

One of the rumors going around is that Audi will start introducing "ultra" versions of cars, perhaps under the title of the RS models, that employ extreme weight savings.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

I will be looking at the ATS also.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

Travis Grundke said:


> ...and that five people would buy.
> 
> One of the rumors going around is that Audi will start introducing "ultra" versions of cars, perhaps under the title of the RS models, that employ extreme weight savings.


oh yeah, i forgot. you have to charge them extra in order to strip out all those weight inducing options.


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## lotuselan (Apr 9, 2008)

LWNY said:


> oh yeah, i forgot. you have to charge them extra in order to strip out all those weight inducing options.


Others have made decontented club racers. Unfortunately some like Porsche charge extra for it.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

i don't know about how the ATS is packaged in the states but in canada caddy really sticks it to you with the packaging. once you choose the 2L turbo and add on awd, xenons, sunroof and leather you have added over 15k dollars. when i did my test drive i told the rep i wanted the above features and the price was just under 50k!!! that's not even fully loaded. i think the s3 is going to be 5-6k less.


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## ghanaboi (Dec 30, 2006)

kevlartoronto said:


> i don't know about how the ATS is packaged in the states but in canada caddy really sticks it to you with the packaging. once you choose the 2L turbo and add on awd, xenons, sunroof and leather you have added over 15k dollars. when i did my test drive i told the rep i wanted the above features and the price was just under 50k!!! that's not even fully loaded. i think the s3 is going to be 5-6k less.


I have the strong suspicion that by the time u get the S3 with all the desirables, it will be $49k (US). I love these cars but VAG vehicles just seem to inflate very quickly!


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## v6er (Dec 18, 2000)

Took a look at one at the dealership a few weeks back. I thought it looked ok, wife thought the front end was butt ugly. I have nothing else to contribute to the convo. :laugh:


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

Travis Grundke said:


> A Latest word is that they're aiming for a 200+ lb. weight reduction and some substantial powertrain changes.


They said that too for the MQB platform! But unfortunately it ended up being only a modest weight loss when you add in the US safety requirements/equipments. 

I might be jaded.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

kevlartoronto said:


> i have to tell you shopping for a sport sedan has been an exercise in frustration so far.
> 
> the ats was surprisingly good but no manual with awd. i had a chance to drive the rwd manual but the shifter was quite notchy. the silly packaging ended making this car as much or more than a 3 series
> 
> ...


BMW 335 is still available with AWD and stick.
test drove one last week.
lease pricing was comparable to my current A4 (largely due to the higher residuals that BMW uses)


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## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

You guys could always wait for this.....
3 door wagon in brown....dunno if stick is going to be an option or not.
http://www.volvocars.com/us/all-cars/concept-cars/concept-estate/pages/default.aspx


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Cyncris said:


> You guys could always wait for this.....
> 3 door wagon in brown....dunno if stick is going to be an option or not.
> http://www.volvocars.com/us/all-cars/concept-cars/concept-estate/pages/default.aspx



The new V60 is a fantastic car. Drove one about a month ago and loved it. Unfortunately, no stick will be offered in NA, otherwise I very well would have put an offer on the demo unit I drove. Even with the autobox I'm still tempted by it.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Cyncris said:


> You guys could always wait for this.....
> 3 door wagon in brown....dunno if stick is going to be an option or not.
> http://www.volvocars.com/us/all-cars/concept-cars/concept-estate/pages/default.aspx


TCL-approved, especially if they change it to a "shooting brake."


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