# Routan/Chrysler Minivan



## averagecdn (Jan 26, 2015)

I have a question for the Routan owners, I am not sure if the US is different from Canada but I was specifically told that the VW Routan is actually just a re-badged Chrysler Minivan. If this is true how is the vehicle for reliability. Do you see issues that are common to the minivans? Really interested in know more. I might become a dad one day and need a minivan.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

averagecdn said:


> I have a question for the Routan owners, I am not sure if the US is different from Canada but I was specifically told that the VW Routan is actually just a re-badged Chrysler Minivan. If this is true how is the vehicle for reliability. Do you see issues that are common to the minivans? Really interested in know more. I might become a dad one day and need a minivan.


Couple things:
1) YES it is ALL Chrysler. Only differences are front and rear body panels, suspension, and some minor interior tweaks. It has no stow n go either. 
2) I would NOT buy one again. It's like any other Chrysler in that it's relatively unreliable. It's nice but still a Chrysler. If I could do it all over again I would've gone with the T&C over the Routan. 

Just my opinion. Coming from a VW guy through and through. 


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## lowey (Jun 4, 2008)

Brakes are a well documented problem. I am on my third set at 67k. Otherwise, no major issues. 


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Agree with Nater. If I were to buy another, I'd probably go with a '13 or later Dodge GC version R/T. Or go with an import. After the Routan discontinued, I believe Chrysler tightened up the suspension on the Chrysler/Dodge versions, which had been one of the differences in the VW versions from 2009-2012. The Routan was given a stiffer suspension to make it more "German-like", while the Chrysler/Dodge were supposed to be cushiony American vehicles.

I'd always heard the Routan was 85% Chrysler and 15% VW, but even the 15% unique to the Routan is still manufactured by Chrysler. Most of that 15% is body panels, light lenses, and mid-row seats. Also the interior/exterior colors are unique to VW, so even a lot of the identical body parts & interior are technically unique to Routan due only to the color differences.

In addition to brakes, the heater hose assembly and sliding door tracks are other common problems. And the Chrysler transmission seems to be proving problematic as miles rack up. We're around 105k miles and it's turning into a rattle-box like other Chryslers as they age.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Yea I've already dropped$2200 on a trans rebuild, rear power reclining seat stuck in recline, heater hose left us stranded. Overall crappy trans


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

We had the 30% side of the powered third row with the seat-back stuck face-down on the seat-bottom. It's apparently a designed safety feature that happens when there is interference where the seat latches down into the floor. Supposed to be able to release it but I could never figure out how or where the manual release is. At the time I had a no-deductible extended warranty, so I ook it to VW dealership and they just replaced the entire seat (just the 30% side). I don't think it was necessary replacement though, but VW techs either couldn't figure it out or didn't want to bother when they could R&R for well over $1k.

That's the other reason I wouldn't buy the Routan again. The VW dealerships don't really understand them and don't want to either, and they typically have higher labor rates than Chryco dealerships. And worst of all is the crappy VW warranty compared to Chrysler. Not just from the factory, but also factory replacement parts. I had the transmission replaced at VW dealership and they said it only comes with VWoA standard 12 months/12k mile warranty, while the Mopar booklet the mechanic left in my passenger seat says 3 years / 100k miles if it had a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep badge on the vehicle.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Yea I've already dropped$2200 on a trans rebuild, rear power reclining seat stuck in recline, heater hose left us stranded. Overall crappy trans


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## CDJackson (Feb 28, 2013)

The fact that the Routan is basically a Chrysler actually gave me slightly MORE confidence, as VW has historically been towards the bottom of the pack in reliability (which matched my experience owning a highly problem-prone 2000 Jetta). Chrysler hasn't got the greatest reputation, either, but it's no worse than VW--in fact, the latest J.D. Power vehicle dependability study has the two brands basically tied. Although we have yet to hit 40,000 miles, our 2012 Routan has been rock-solid with no issues whatsoever. I think most of the problems with the Routan (especially the brakes) arose with the earlier 2009-10 model-year vehicles. The 2012s got upgraded brakes and the newer Pentastar 3.5L V6 engine. I do expect to eventually have transmission issues--I think that's the weak spot on these vehicles--but a lot of minivans eventually have transmission issues. If I can get to 100K on the original trans, I'll be happy. And we purposely did NOT get the gee-whiz power 3rd row seats because I knew they would eventually break (really, how could something like that NOT eventually break?) The seats are easy enough to fold down manually.

Maybe we'll encounter more problems as we put more miles on it, but so far we've had a good experience and wouldn't hesitate to recommend a (late model year) Routan.


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## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

CDJackson said:


> Chrysler hasn't got the greatest reputation, either, but it's no worse than VW--in fact, the latest J.D. Power vehicle dependability study has the two brands basically tied.


What are you talking about? Chrysler is looking like a rock star compared to the news on Volkswagen these days.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

papa_vw said:


> What are you talking about? Chrysler is looking like a rock star compared to the news on Volkswagen these days.


I think he's talking about reliability. 


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## SYMAWD (Apr 20, 2014)

I bought a 2011 in August of 2011. Just traded it in on a 2016 Q5 3.0t, but in the 4 years and 45,000 miles I had it, not a single issue and just one set of brakes (at 35k).


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## tdube (Aug 20, 2015)

There are some odd comments from people here... almost as though they don't really know the van... the Routans have ALL the same issues as their Town & Country and Grand Caravan cousins. I bought a 2012 Routan S back in May and it's spent more time in the dealership chasing down a gremlin than in our own driveway. I've done so much research on this van that I know it better than the VW mechanics working on it. Even the VW engineers who've worked with the mechanic had some quite idiotic methods of troubleshooting the problems it has.

The VW Routan was built alongside the Chrysler/Dodge minivans in Ontario, Canada. It is for all intents and purposes a Chrysler product that was cosmetically redesigned for Volkswagen. The front clip (bumper, grill, lights, hood and fenders) are all unique to the Routan. The rear clip (hatch, bumper and rear quarter panels) are all unique to the Routan as well. The only parts on the exterior that are interchangeable with the Dodge and Chrysler are basically the doors, windows and roof. The Routan also has the Chrysler Corp sticker in the engine compartment located on the rad mount bracket.

There were a few interior tweaks to incorporate VW. The steering wheel is Chrysler's but the rubber boot over the airbag was rebranded with the VW logo. The cluster was redesigned a bit, but has the Chrysler mini-info centre on it. Stereo, DVD, all Chrysler.

The Routan DOES have 3rd row Stow 'n Go seating and has the associated pockets in the second for for it as well. The difference is that VW opted for plusher second row captain's chairs so they do not fold into the Stow 'n Go pockets. I don't know why Nater would say it doesn't. The second row seats are interchangeable, so you could actually put in the Stow 'n Go captains chairs from a Chrysler/Dodge van into the Routan and fold them as they're designed too right into the pockets.

VW set the features of the entry Routan to be in the middle of the entry Grand Caravan and Town & Country. So the entry Routan S is basically a Grand Caravan SXT but with a better, tighter suspension.

The powertrain is all Chrysler. The 2008-2010 models came with the 3.8L and 4.0L engines while the 2011-2014 models came with the 3.6L Pentastar engine. VW officially ended production of the Routan in 2012 due to poor sales. They had a contract until 2014 however, and in 2013 a total of 2,500 Routans were built and only sold to fleet purchasers as 2013 and 2014 models.

The computer, otherwise known as the TIPM (Totally Integrated Power Module) is a Chrysler product and is notorious for having faulty fuel relay issues between 2010 and 2014 that affected millions of Chrysler models, including the minivans. Since the Routan was built alongside them, it has the same problems. VW flashes their own TIPM, but when scanning it with an OBDII reader, you'll still get more information by selecting Chrysler or Dodge rather than VW.

Troubleshooting problems by looking up the Routan is sparse. You need to look up the information for the Town & Country or Grand Caravan of the same years, as there'll be far more information available. The transmission problems that people are mentioning is related to a firmware upgrade that can be performed at a VW dealership that fixes the hard shifting problem. There was a new upgrade this year after the "recall" upgrade made last year. I would only do the upgrade if the shifting problem exists, otherwise people have reported that the upgrade actually created the problem for them.

The people posting that they'd rather purchase a 2013 Town & Country instead are still going to have problems, especially if they're unlucky enough to get one with the TIPM issue. It doesn't really matter what the nameplate on the outside says, every problem they experienced with their Routan they'd have expired with a Grand Caravan or Town & Country the same year.

In my case, I got a hardcore lemon that has cost over $4,000 just in diagnostics and repairs, not including my time doing research, going back and forth to the dealership and the mounting frustration. I'm still dealing with trying to get the TIPM in mine changed and just today, the bloody airbag light came on.

While the van is currently the bane of my existence, I can say that it does ride well and is comfortable on road trips. Fuel economy when the Eco button is on, is actually very good and I'm seeing about 8.3L/100km on the highway. There is a lot of room inside, even with the 3rd row seat up, there is still a good amount of cargo room since you can use the well that the seats fold into.

By the time you're ready to buy one, you could get a 2015 Grand Caravan or Town & Country for a decent price. One of them is supposed to be discontinued, but they keep flip flopping on which one is going to be canned.... first it was the Town & Country, now it's the Grand Caravan. Either way, your options for a minivan is either going to be a Chrysler product, Toyota, Honda or the Kia Sedona.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

VW does not have stow n go seating. The compartments are there but the seats do not stow. I was referring to the 2nd row-the only one that matters. 
Can you swap in the seats? Of course! But I wasn't talking about that. The rear seats stow, but that is (again) not what anybody refers to when they speak of "stow n go". 
That's why I said that, since you asked. 


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## rick chi-town (Jun 14, 2010)

and for the record, anyone on here saying the Routan suspension has been modified, or tweaked by VW to make it more "German-like" well, that's just poppycock. I have a Routan SE, and while I love the VW dash colors and tweaks, and I DO love the car, this sucker drives exactly like 2 DGC's I have at work. No better, no worse, and definitely not German-like at all, that's for sure. I have 2 BMW's, so yes I can say that. If there was a German engineer that came along, and tried to tighten a bolt, or something on the suspension, he failed. Just my .02 cents. Rick


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

I put that in quotes because there is nothing German about the Routan, other than the badge, and even that was likely made here. It definitely handles like a typical American vehicle.

But Chrysler supposedly stiffened the suspension on the Routan compared to the T&C and DGC. Not sure if that was only for 2009 and 2010 models, or for the whole run of the Routans. At some point, Chrysler did the same with their versions too. Or so they say.... Again, not sure if that was for the refresh beginning with 2011 MY, or if it was only after the Routan discontinued beginning with 2013 MY.


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## kptaylor (Apr 7, 2001)

So is it better to go to a Chrysler/Dodge shop for service or a VW shop? Is the TIPM software proprietary or straight Chrysler?

Having starting/stalling/stumbling issues, so it may be the fuel relay fault in the TIPM and VW service is having a hard time diagnosing it. Thinking it may be better to take it to the local Chrsyler or Dodge dealer... So far they've changed the fuel pump twice in the past week! :screwy:


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## routan2010se (Jun 17, 2013)

The StarScan system, that Chrysler uses to get more money out of folks, only works on Chrysler cars. For example, lets say you plug in the fog lights, you want to use them but the TIPM has to be programmed to enable the function on the computers, to trigger the relay, to turn on the light.

So trip to the dealer. The dealer pays god knows how much per month for access to the system, and if it is like the Porsche system I am familiar with, you have to pay Chryco a kickback to enable the option from the system, and the dealer charges you too.

This system is not able to connect to a Routan.

So guess what VW has, the exact same system, but ONLY works on a Routan. 

When I got my fog lights, the dealer was like we never use the system, have no idea how to use it and it took them 4 HOURS, to figure out how to enable the fogs.

Shop manual says charge customer for .5 Hours labor


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## sladethesleeper (Oct 28, 2011)

rick chi-town said:


> and for the record, anyone on here saying the Routan suspension has been modified, or tweaked by VW to make it more "German-like" well, that's just poppycock. I have a Routan SE, and while I love the VW dash colors and tweaks, and I DO love the car, this sucker drives exactly like 2 DGC's I have at work. No better, no worse, and definitely not German-like at all, that's for sure. I have 2 BMW's, so yes I can say that. If there was a German engineer that came along, and tried to tighten a bolt, or something on the suspension, he failed. Just my .02 cents. Rick


Yes and no.

The "sport tuned suspension" on the routan is the towing package for the Caravan, which is an option for the Caravan and T&C. It is possible your ones at work have this already as an option, but if you compared it to a stock dodge without the towing package, you'd notice the difference. Am I carving corners? No. But having the towing package has been nice for me and been used many times. Combined with load assists in the rear, it actually tows pretty well. Not as solid as my full size truck, but still pretty good.

Otherwise, I know I'm late to the show, but here I go anyways.

I have a 2011 Routan, with 93k miles. 

Brakes:
My first set of brakes lasted ~ 75k miles. that included quite a bit of towing. 2nd set lasted 20k, but that was mostly because one of the front calipers seized and in the matter of a few days had eaten the pad, and scarred the rotor. It never made any noise like I've heard on frozen calipers before, so I did not notice anything was up until the grinding of metal on metal.

Slightly under powered, but not that bad.

Transmission: 

Do not use ECO mode. It's a joke and probably does more damage to the engine and transmission. Also, no noticable effect on the mileage. 

Transmission is schizophrenic. most of the time it's great, sometimes it sounds like its about to drop out of the car. The biggest problem I've noticed is the software shift points just suck. it avoids downshifting too long, and that results in a lot of load being applied while shifting. If you go up a small hill on the highway, in 6th gear and start to slow, the transmission only goes to 5th for a split second on the way to 4th when it revs the engine. If I'm driving in hilly country, I found I get better performance and mileage just manually shifting it into 5th and leaving it. This is honestly something that could be address with software, but VW/Dodge probably will never look at it. The other hard shift point I've found is from 2nd - 1st as you slow down, particularly in stop and go city highway traffic. Sometimes it will just clunk into 1st. 

So, in summary, not the best shifting transmission but seems okay so far.

Overall Impressions 
We bought the Routan when VW was basically trying to give them away. Drove off the lot at $25.5k with 2 miles on the clock, which was only $2k more than a Mazda 5 (but the 5 was significantly smaller), but $15k less than comparably equiped Hondas and Toyotas. It was still $5k cheaper than a comparably equipped Dodge. 

I've had a caravan with stow and go, and we never used it. I'd rather have the larger seats and keep the storage space under the deck. I keep cargo straps, First Aid Kit, moving blankets, and a tool kit in there. Now when I know I'm getting lots of stuff, I'll just take the middle row seats out, or even just one. I think one time I was somewhere and bought something bigger than I had thought, so I just pulled one seat out and put it off to the side. 

Interior is nicer, and more subtle than the shiney plastic bling of the Chrysler. But that's personal preference.

AC is a bit under powered if you are in a hot area. When I lived in Boston, no issues. Now in Houston...on a hot sunny day, it's on full blast almost all the time just to keep it cool.

It does have a bit of road noise. My next improvement on the routan will be sound deadening mats in the floor boards. Did that to my 65 mustang and it made a huge difference. Hoping the same here. Swapping out from the OEM michelins helped some. 

I do end up chasing a lot of little electrical gremlins. I had the seat warmer on my drivers seat catch on fire. The wiring loom was not properly supported and the fuse never blew. I will say though, even though I was out of warranty, VW fixed the seat and problem with no fuss. Generally most of the electrical things are just annoyances. Sometimes ECO mode will randomly try to turn itself on, ignition switch broke, and some others I know I'm forgetting. 

But overall, it does its job. It's reasonably comfortable. Sure, I know I may end up replacing a transmission at 150k miles, but with a $15k difference between the Routan and Honda, I can replace 3-5 transmissions with the savings. It has an interior volume that bested my explorer, with mileage that rivaled my Volvo wagon. I expect to be able to get to 150-200k miles reasonably well.


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