# Aftermarket Stereo wiring Help...



## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

OK, I am using the Metra "VW CAN 12V Interface" to connect to the stock wire harness, but I am not 100% confident that the wires match up on the touareg.
Has anybody used this adapter or can someone tell me what the UB+ pins are on the VW harness?
Also, is the UB+ with the two little symbols have anything to do with a power antenna??
Thanks for any help.


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Aftermarket Stereo wiring Help... (tbgame32)*

Nobody?
Ok... crossing fingers, as I hope I don't blow something up...


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## nsho13 (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: Aftermarket Stereo wiring Help... (tbgame32)*

no clue man.... but good luck, let us know how you made out. Take some pictures if you can.... Don't mess it up, or you'll end up having to put the rig on a boat and bring it to the south shore!


_Modified by nsho13 at 11:51 AM 11-9-2006_


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: Aftermarket Stereo wiring Help... (tbgame32)*

All I can think of is to look at the stickers on the top of your stock vw head unit. You should see all of the plugs and the function of each pin. With that you should be able to map and connect to something else.
Good Luck!


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Aftermarket Stereo wiring Help... (v10tdiguy)*

ya, that's the sticker I am looking at, but they are symbols and letters??
I know the ground...
then there is:
Safe
CanH
CanL
Alarm
UB+
UB (with two sysmbols??)
Tel Mute
The Metra harness does not have wires going to Alarm or Tel mute, so I have that covered. The battery wires are going to the UB+, so I am assuming that UB+ is battery power. Metra has you connecting a power antenna wire to the UB (with two symbols)... I was not aware that the touareg antenna needed power of anykind or why it would be switched?? The dimmer wires and 12 AC power are going to the CAN pins... but they first go through a seperate adapter, so maybe it is correct??
Ah hell, who knows... I'm just gonna fire this sucker up and see what happens... I'll post what happens...
if I don't, I'm on fire in my garage


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: Aftermarket Stereo wiring Help... (tbgame32)*

OK, I did not remember what you were quoting were the codes printed on the unit. Your assumptions sound correct but if you want me to verify I will check the wiring diagram. It looks like the connector in question is the 16 pin one. If you want me to check any of this let me know and pin numbers would be helpful as the diagrams do not reference the codes you have shown. Also let me if it is nav or not.
Also if we are speaking if the same connector both pin 15 and 16 are for power.
You will most likely be done by the time you read this!


_Modified by v10tdiguy at 2:41 PM 11-9-2006_


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## xtant666 (Apr 1, 2006)

just cap off the can wires unless you need them for steering wheel controlls or speed sence. the antenna is powered but it is powered throught the antenna itself so you will need the powerd antenna adaptor from metra . and the tuareg does not have a regular switched accesory wire even though its listed on the harness you will have to find a switched source elswere and use a relay to turn on the radio.


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (xtant666)*

Well, didn't get far at all... went to hook up the harness and realized my stock harness is missing the speaker wires!! I didn't even check, but I'm assuming my car has an amp, which makes this so much more fun, grrr.
I have the CD Nav, Sound Sytem II with 11 speakers.
Wonderful, more work... starting to think this home job is not fun anymore!
Xtant, since you seem to have done this before... The Pioneer Z1 does ask for a speed sensor wire, dimmer, reverse and parking brake. I was just going to start guessing and looking around, but if you know exactly what wires to tap into, that'd be a huge help.  Does the speed sensor and steering controls require another adapter?
I know how to disable the security feature of the Z1, but I still need to hook up those wires first... it says it won't be as accurate without the speed sonsor, so if there is a way to get it hook up, I'd do it.
Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

Here is the Harness I am using... XSVI 9003


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

Ok, talked directly to PAC and they won't be releasing a Touareg compatible Steering Wheel Interface until Jan/Feb 2007, so that solves that.
Also, bypassing my Z1 requires grounding the PArkign break and grounding an addittional empty location in the Z1 harness (go to http://www.sminntech.com/z1flash.html to learn how to bypass a Z1... depends on your build date)
After searching around FOREVER and getting some much appreciated email help, I'm still left with one big question...
How do I connect the Z1 to the cars amp? The metra harness does have speaker connections, but on my Touareg's stock harness, the speaker connections are not there (RF, LF, RR, LR)??
Also, details about what exact wires I should tap into for the dimmer and reverse leads would be great!
Anybody?
By the way, MEtra makes a new Double Din kit for the Touareg and it looks great. The finish texture is not a perfect match, but color and fit are great... I'll post pictures if I ever figure this sucker out.
Thanks


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

Per the Bentley wiring diagram the only lines shown going from the head unit to the amp are from the 12 pin connector next to the CD connector.
Pins 3,8,9 go to the amp.
They are both also connected to the CAN system.
Pin 3 is L+ (LO-L), Pin 9 is R+ or (LO-R), Pin 8 is ground shown as (Line (ground symbol)).
The stock amp must use the can system to decide how to distribute the Left and Right to the various speakers.
I realize this may not full answer your question. I thought the wiring info may be of some use.


_Modified by v10tdiguy at 1:48 PM 11-10-2006_


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (v10tdiguy)*

Thanks! Definitely getting somewhere now...
Can you possibly list pin 1-12 for me?
If those are the only wires that go to the amp... 'm completely guessing here, but should I just take the Front L and Front R speaker wires from the Z1 harness and connect them to these LO-L and LO-R wires and then ground to the ground?? How would he fader work at that point?? Or would I not be able to fade with aftermarket deck??
Thanks


_Modified by tbgame32 at 6:38 PM 11-10-2006_


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tbgame32* »_Thanks! Definitely getting somewhere now...
Can you possibly list pin 1-12 for me?
If those are the only wires that go to the amp... 'm completely guessing here, but should I just take the Front L and Front R speaker wires from the Z1 harness and connect them to these LO-L and LO-R wires and then ground to the ground??
Thanks

None of the other pins pertain to signal out to the amp. As far as how to connect them I am not the person to ask as I have never done an aftermarket install. I have the VW wiring diagrams and know how to read and interpret them if that is of help to you.
Your guess above sounds like it would work. Although I am not sure your new head unit knows how to talk to the vw amp for eq and fade and other functions.
It would be best if someone else could comment on the specifics of what is needed to make your setup work.
Good Luck!


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

What seems to make this potentially very complicated is the use of the vw amp. I would think this would all be pretty easy with an amp designed for use with your head unit.
Does anyone know if you can use an aftermarket head unit with the vw amp and retain all normal functionality?


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## xtant666 (Apr 1, 2006)

you cannot play out from the z1 into the vw amp. you must bypass it. which means running your 4 sets of speaker wires back to the passenger rear quarter panel where the amp is located and grabing the speaker leads on the output side of the amp. as far as speed pulse and such use this piece from soundgate. http://www.soundgate.com/index...d=217& the canpulse 1 or 3 i forget which one i used.


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (xtant666)*

Alright, I've got the amp and have the wires accessible... does nybody have details on the harness and pins connected to the stock amp?
It has two 24 pin connectors... the only wires that are familiar are the normal yellow and red power wires and the brown ground wires... I can also see the L and R wires coming from the radio harness at the dash.
It would be ideal if this amp has LR, RR, LF, RF inputs.... that way I can just bring the Z1 wires straight back to the amp and use it, rather than bypassing it.
thanks


_Modified by tbgame32 at 3:25 PM 11-11-2006_


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## xtant666 (Apr 1, 2006)

even if the amp had LR, RR, LF, RF inputs which it doesent you would not be able to use it. the amp is designed to take a low level signal and amplify it. not an already amplified high level coming from your z1 it would sound bad, head up, and you would only be able to turn the radio up to like 5 on the volume nob. just find the output side of the amp. and use a 9volt battery to pop the speaker wires to find out which is which and polarity.


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

This info is how to connect to the speakers directly to the output side of the VW amp from your aftermarket head unit.
I am providing the info below but I make no assertions regarding the connection to your head unit. I would not be surprised if you can not use all of the speakers below properly with the aftermarket head.
These connections are on 2 different connectors, pay close attention to the info below as in some cases one speaker is wired to 2 different connectors.
The descriptions below are per Bentley. You will have to decide how you want tho connect them to your head unit.
I not 100% sure on polarity but I would assume that the wire with red is +
I will base the polarity below on that assumption. You may be able to confirm polarity by looking at a speaker connection.
Pins 9 on T24a &12+ on T24a LF DSP Midrange 
Pins 24 on T24a & 21+ on T24a LF treble
Pins 15 on T24a &18+ on T24a RF DSP midrange
Pins 2 on T23b &23+ on T24a RF treble
Pins 15 on T23b & 18+ on T23b LF Bass speaker
Pins 9 on T23b & 12+ on T23b RF Bass speaker
Pins 7 on T24a &8+ on T24a LR DSP Midrange
Pins 4 on T24a & 5+ on T24a RR DSP Midrange
Pins 3 on T23b & 6+ on T23b LR Bass speaker
Pins 22 on T24a & 1+ on T23b RR Bass speaker
Pins 1 on T24a & 2+ on T24a Center mid/high range speaker
_Modified by v10tdiguy at 2:00 PM 11-11-2006_


_Modified by v10tdiguy at 2:17 PM 11-11-2006_


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (v10tdiguy)*

V10, thanks for the details.... much appreciated. Is it possible to list all the pin connections on both adapters at the amp? I can not figure out how the stock head unit controls the fade if it is only sending a Left and Right signal to the amp??
Xtant, I was told that the Soundgate XR4 adapter would let me make the necessary adjustments between the high level pioneer output and the low level VW amp leads... do you know anything about this adapter? http://www.logjamelectronics.com/soundoem4a.html
I was told that wiring directly to the speakers in the Touareg would be problematic, as the factory amp acts as a crossover as well, thus I would have no way to distribute sound differently to all those 11 speakers correctly straight from the Z1. Thus, the only way to really use ALL the exisitng speakers and make it sound good, would be to use an aftermarket amp and crossover setup. I know that you mentioned this before, but it seems as though it would be much easier to just find a way to tap into the existing amp and speakers.
Again, the help is much appreciated and I realize that someone with my limited knowledge probably shouldn't be attempting this, but I enjoy messing around with this stuff... but I am very close to handing it off to a professional! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by tbgame32 at 5:46 PM 11-11-2006_


_Modified by tbgame32 at 5:46 PM 11-11-2006_


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

Please be very careful as you may be heading down a path that could damage some or all of your factory components. And none of this may work.
Also please consider that I have typed all of this in manually. I have made an effort to make sure the info is correct but I could have made one or more typo's!
It looks to me like that factory head unit talks to the amp with the CAN Bus. This is a network that requires a common communication protocol. If your Z1 is not capable of this and I would assume it isn't, there will be no way to make this work. The adapter you speak of above may only be attenuating the line levels so you can use your head as a preamp. It may not be capable of the CAN communication either.
I would heed Xtants advice as he has actually done this. It sounds very risky to me to try and use the VW amp without devices and wiring that is confirmed to work with it.
I will provide the rest of the pins below for your information.
Pin 10 on T24a = Pin 3 on factory head
Pin 11 on T24a = Pin 9 on factory head
Pin 13 on T24a = Pin 8 on factory head
Pin 14 on T24a = Pin 11 on factory head
Pin 17 on T24a = Pin 5 on factory head
Pin 16 on T24a is Can H
Pin 19 on T24a is Can L
Pins 20, 21 and 23 on T23b are all for power +
Pins 16, 19 and 22 on T23b are all Ground
_Modified by v10tdiguy at 4:18 PM 11-11-2006_

_Modified by v10tdiguy at 4:22 PM 11-11-2006_


_Modified by v10tdiguy at 4:27 PM 11-11-2006_


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (v10tdiguy)*

ahh, there we go... the amp does communicate through the can bus, I had ASSumed it didn't.
Thanks again for all the help and I will definitely be careful.
Have a road trip from MA to NC planned for the end of next week and really would be a shame if I can get this thing fired up in time... ran all the wires for XM, iPod w/video, bluetooth, antennas, etc today, so if I can just figure this speaker situation out, I'd be good to go.
At this point I think I'm going to hand the rest off to a professional installer, but I'll post back with some pictures and the final workaround.
Thanks again!


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

My assumptions regarding theory of operation are based on my interpretation of the wiring diagram. I have no direct knowledge of how this system works. Since I only saw the L&R output lines I am deducing that all other communication between the head and amp must be taking place via the CAN data bus. So don't take what I say as gospel it is just my opinion.
I hope you get it all working soon. Keep us posted as I now feel invested in this somehow.
Good Luck!


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## xtant666 (Apr 1, 2006)

you could use that adaptor , or even better the jl cleansweep . but the factory uses canbus for most of its operations so no dive on that. you are right all the signal distrobution is done from the amp so you will need some sort of pasive crosover network. you could probably use an off the shelf one from an aftermarket 3 way setub but i dont know how good it will sound or how hard it will be on the factory speakers because the frequency ranges will most certainly be different. these are what we refer to as all or nothing systems. you can **** around and just do the head, or just do the speakers, or just add an amp, but you will be cutting corners and using bandaids. i recomend puting in a nice 5 channell amb some new door speakers and a little sub. now im not saying you cant use the stock speakers with the pioneer im just saying it wont be perfect unless you can have someone design you a one off passive crossover network for the factory speakers. i had the low end 10 speaker no amp setup in my treg so there were just the regular 4 speaker leads behind the radio which would make your life easier. however i didnt bother using them. i ran 12awg speaker wire directly from my amps into the doors for 2 reasons. 1 i am running 300 wats rms to each door so i needed a much larger guage. and 2 i wanted my system to be completely seperate from the car. the only part of my stereo that is hoocked to factory wiring is my main power run to the alternator to cahrge my second battery. and the chassi for ground. everything else is seperate. that way vw cand bitch at me and say the stereo is causing a problem i can just pull the fuse and say ok now what.


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (xtant666)*

V10 or anyone, can you tell me what Pins 5 and 11 at the factory head stand for (Nav AF+/-) and why the amp would be getting this signal?
I wanted to put the following speaker locations in pin order on the harnesses, so I could reference it easier at the amp, so I figured I'd post it for the next poor soul who goes down this route...
(I tried to be as careful as I could in copying it over, but if anyone else wants to double check it, go fo it... also, this detail is not confirmed in the car, just a list from above.)
Sound Sytem II Amp pin and speaker detail:
T24a:
1 = Center mid/high range speaker
2 = Center mid/high range speaker
3 = 
4 = RR DSP Midrange
5 = RR DSP Midrange
6 = 
7 = LR DSP Midrange
8 = LR DSP Midrange
9 = LF DSP Midrange
10 = Pin 3 on factory head
11 = Pin 9 on factory head
12 = LF DSP Midrange
13 = Pin 8 on factory head
14 = Pin 11 on factory head
15 = RF DSP Midrange
16 = CAN H
17 = Pin 5 on factory head
18 = RF DSP Midrange
19 = CAN L
20 = 
21 = LF Treble
22 = RR Bass Speaker
23 = RF Treble 
24 = LF Treble

T23b:
1 = RR Bass Speaker
2 = RF Treble
3 = LR Bass Speaker
4 =
5 =
6 = LR Bass Speaker
7 = 
8 =
9 = RF Bass Speaker
10 =
11 =
12 = RF Bass Speaker
13 =
14 =
15 = LF Bass Speaker
16 = Ground
17 = 
18 = LF Bass Speaker
19 = Ground
20 = Power
21 = Power
22 = Ground
23 = Power
24 =


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

I stumbled on the following... its in German, but it shows line outs in LF, RF, LR, and RR... not sure why they are labeled as NAV AF on the radio... but it would now make sense that those are also going to the amp. SO, balance and fade should be controlled by those wires and it should be possible for me to connect the Z1 directly to those wires using a line level adapter.
Can anybody confirm that the following detail is correct and why on my radio its labelled as NAV AF (pin 5 and 11)??
C: EXT Control Connector 
1 - MIC IN (-)
2 - RFSL
3 - Line Out vorne links = (LF)
4 - MIC Out (-)
5 - Line Out hinten links = (LR)
6 - TEL NF IN (-)
7 - MIC IN (+)
8 - Line Out GND
9 - Line Out vorne rechts = (RF)
10 - MIC Out (+)
11 - Line Out rechts hinten = (RR)
12 TEL NF IN (+)


_Modified by tbgame32 at 10:45 AM 11-12-2006_


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

Good find! I have no idea what pins 5&11 are for I guessed that it had something to do with NAV audio out. I wondered what they did myself but the only info I have is the sticker on the unit.
There is a possibility that the European Nav head has different pinout.
I would propose a simple way to confirm the function of those pins (5&11) Remove them from the harness at whichever end is easiest and then determine if you have sound to the rear speakers.
If you do not have rear sound and you don't mind some risk of frying your stock amp hook them up and power everything up. It may just work!


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

tbgame32,
Please check my post above before reading this if you have not done so.
One other thing I would recommend is to confirm the number of wires coming from the NAV head going to the VW amp and the color of each. I say this as I have found omissions in the wiring diagrams in the past.
According to Bentley there should be 5 lines.
NAV Head Pin#5 Color Lilac/Green
NAV Head Pin#11 Color Lilac/Brown
NAV Head Pin#8 Color Brown/Green
NAV Head Pin#9 Color Lilac/Red
NAV Head Pin#3 Color Lilac/Blue
It is now looking more likely that you will be able to use your stock amp although I am curious why you would want to? Since I would think sound quality will be the same. Is this just to get a better NAV?

_Modified by v10tdiguy at 10:00 AM 11-12-2006_


_Modified by v10tdiguy at 10:05 AM 11-12-2006_


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (v10tdiguy)*

Yup, my main reasons for the switch to the Z1 are for the better Nav, touchscreen, direct XM traffic control, direct ipod control and bluetooth... I know I could accomplish some of this with stock radio, but the stock Nav and lack of touchscreen kills it all for me. I'm not thrilled with the stock sound, but I can live with it, plus I want to be able to hook the stock radio back up with ease if I go to sell, so I don't feel like rewiring or replacing speakers.
I'll confirm those wires, thanks.


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

Did you read my suggestion in the previous post to determine the fx of pins 5&11 if so are you going to try this?


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (v10tdiguy)*

I think so, just wish I could confirm that detail about the difference in that German version and my radio having the NAV AF +/- ... I have a bad feeling that it is simply the audio for the navigation audio directions... as in when the navigation talks over and mutes the music slightly... which would suck.
I'll try and remove those wires at the dash and plug my old stereo back in and see what I've lost...


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

I would definitely remove them and give it a try as you may have discovered L&R rear low level line outputs. If this is the case it would be of value to others too!
It may be that recoding could change the functionality of what those lines are for on the amp.
If you determine that the lines are or could be recoded to be L&R rear low level line inputs then I think the title of this thread should be changed and placed in the faq's. The new title should be something like replacing your head unit while using the stock amp.
Good Luck!


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (v10tdiguy)*

Bad news, I disconnected those two NAV AF wires (rear line outputs on the German version) and they are definitely the navigation voice guidence line outs and all the speakers (front and rear) were still working, but when I enter a destination I got no voice commands. Which brings me to my next question...
Does the amp have rear line inputs that are simply not being used by my stock radio? Probably not, but if they did, I could switch the NAV AF wires to the unused pin locations at the amp for rear input.
Its clear that with the german description of the deck above, that there is a radio to amp setup that does use rear output wires, but does that require a different amp or just different connections? Is there a non-Nav setup that uses the external amp? ... ie, a 10 speaker system with external amp? If so, like you said, maybe the change can be made with coding?


_Modified by tbgame32 at 1:13 PM 11-12-2006_


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tbgame32* »_
Does the amp have rear line inputs that are simply not being used by my stock radio? Probably not, but if they did, I could switch the NAV AF wires to the unused pin locations at the amp for rear input.
Its clear that with the german description of the deck above, that there is a radio to amp setup that does use rear output wires, but does that require a different amp or just different connections? Is there a non-Nav setup that uses the external amp? ... ie, a 10 speaker system with external amp? If so, like you said, maybe the change can be made with coding?

_Modified by tbgame32 at 1:13 PM 11-12-2006_

I found the info below in a thread on installing a subwoofer in the faq's
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=2 on page 2

_Quote, originally posted by *VenetianGreenTouareg* »_
Spock,
That design would truly baffle me. Absolute crap.
Here is where I got this crazy idea in the first place...perhaps you can validate? I'm referring to a PDF that I got from the Vortex (probably you!), called, "Amplifier for Radio Systems "Sound I" &
Sound II".
On page 91-52, it shows the pinouts for the amp. The Multi-pin connector A, 24-pin, has the following pins of interest to this project:
14-Leftrearaudioinput-
15-Leftrearaudioinput+
17-Rightrearaudioinput-
18-Rightrearaudioinput+
20-Leftfrontaudioinput-
21-Leftfrontaudioinput+
23-Rightfrontaudioinput-
24-Rightfrontaudioinput+
This would lend support to the idea that at least on some radio/amps, there are four separate low-level inputs to the amp. 

This person does not mention which connector is being referred to but it would suggest that on the amp or some version of it that low level inputs exist for F&R.
I do not have ETKA access but it would be interesting to know how many p/n's there are for the amp.


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (v10tdiguy)*

Yup, sounds like there are different amps... post above from Spockat I think is the amp from a Non-Nav system, which would be using speaker level outputs from the HU, thus requiring all those inputs on the AMP...
those pin details don't match the pin details from earlier at all, so that leads me to believe there are different amp for each setup.
I think I am at a dead end at this point. I'm going to try and plug in the Z1 using the L and R output to the amp only using the Front L and R on the Z1. I will obviously have no control over fade (which is a nigthmare in the Treg, seeing I was faded 75% rear with stock deck).
Hopefully this will at least give me audio for the drive to NC and then I will take it somewhere to have an aftermarket amp setup installed.
We were close!


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

I agree that it does not look promising.
In the long run it seems like you will end up with a much better system using an amp, crossovers, head unit and speakers all designed to work well together.
It may not be completely dead though. It would still be interesting to know what could be done with coding and how many variants of the amp exist. Also Euro wiring diagrams would be of interest.
If you are going to try hooking up to your stock amp you may be able to adjust fade from the stock system. It could be that the last fad setting the amp received from the stock head unit is stored until it receives a new command. If it does work this way you could splice in so you could run either head (separately) and make adjustments until things were satisfactory. The line out signal from your Z1 may be more than the amp can handle!
Also you are going to going to generate some fault codes when you remove your stock system. You may be able to code somehow to avoid this if it is a concern.
Good Luck!


_Modified by v10tdiguy at 12:38 PM 11-12-2006_


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (v10tdiguy)*

More bad news... plugged it all in using the existing L and R line out wires... nothing. I get power and the Z1 works just fine, but no sound. No noise of any kind... Now I'm assuming the stock head unit would tell the amp to turn on, which further complicates things.
Z1 Powers up just fine... although the Metra harness did not give switched power or dimmer as promised, so basically that whole Metra wire harness is useless in my situation, as I can simply wire switched and constant power directly from the fuse box. Dimmer is a different story and not sure if the light switch will provide a connection for that.


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

It would make sense that the can bus is used to turn on the amp.
Too bad though as I was hoping this would work out for you somehow.


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (v10tdiguy)*

It would be helpful to figure out the difference in amps. The German version of the amp detail replaces the NAV line outs with REAR line outs, so the amp in that setup must be the exact setup I am looking for.
Are these two different amps or is the same amp just wired or coded differently??
Also, I wonder if there is another way to trip that amp on and off?
These may be a questions for another thread... we might be getting lost in all these posts.


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tbgame32* »_It would be helpful to figure out the difference in amps. The German version of the amp detail replaces the NAV line outs with REAR line outs, so the amp in that setup must be the exact setup I am looking for.
Are these two different amps or is the same amp just wired or coded differently??
Also, I wonder if there is another way to trip that amp on and off?
These may be a questions for another thread... we might be getting lost in all these posts.


To determine how many different amps there are will require the help of someone with ETKA. Can someone out there provide help with this information?
If the amps are the same you could look at coding. I am not aware of a case where coding changes the pinout but it is possible. You could always experiment. There is coding for many different vehicles in the faq's
I would guess that the amp is turned on be the CAN. It is possible that it has a sense line somewhere, possibly one of the undocumented pins. Again someone with more info would have to help.
I wish I could be of more help but I do not have any other resources to help you with. Hopefully someone else will step in and provide the missing pieces.
Good Luck!


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## henna gaijin (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: (v10tdiguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *v10tdiguy* »_
To determine how many different amps there are will require the help of someone with ETKA. Can someone out there provide help with this information?


All I have is a Parts List, but it does show 2 different amps:
Amplifier, 8 channel 7L6 035 456 $611.93
Amplifier, 12 channel 7L6 035 466 $500.95
I have no idea why the 12 channel amp is cheaper than the 8 channel amp, but there it is.
HTH


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (henna gaijin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *henna gaijin* »_
All I have is a Parts List, but it does show 2 different amps:
Amplifier, 8 channel 7L6 035 456 $611.93
Amplifier, 12 channel 7L6 035 466 $500.95
I have no idea why the 12 channel amp is cheaper than the 8 channel amp, but there it is.
HTH


Many thanks!!!


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (v10tdiguy)*

Does the manual also show connections for the 8 Channel amp? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*

tbgame32,
There are two other relevant systems shown in the Bentley manual are Sound System 1 with an amp and without.
There is no system in Bentley with an 8 channel amp called out. I should clarify this as I am making the assumption that since 11 different speakers each have their own discreet connection to the amp assembly that there are 11 amplifier channels. I don’t have any way of knowing how many mono amps are contained in any of the VW amp assembly. It could be that each speaker is receiving its own connection due to internal crossover circuitry versus a separate amp. It may be that 8 channel indicated by HTH is for a European system.
The system with the amp has 11 different connections for each of the speakers. It is also connected to the can bus. This system uses connectors labeled differently than your system. They are T24 and T23a in System 1 and T24a and T23b in System 2. Unless your amp has unused connections I would say that this amp is different. If I map 24 to 24 and 23 to 23 there are differences in the pinout. For this reason I don’t think it will be of use to anyone for me to spend the time documenting the pinout of the System 1 amp. The system 1 amp is driven by 8 lines from the 16 pin connector on the head unit which would indicate to me that it is using high level inputs. I am sure this would be of use to you if the amps appeared the same but unfortunately they do not. This amp is also connected to the Can bus as you would expect. There is no way to know to what extent it uses the can system but I would guess that it at least uses it to turn the amp on.
The system without the separate amp connects 10 speakers to the 4 channels of the head unit via outputs from the 16 pin connector. No external crossovers are shown in the diagram. Clearly this system has the amp contained in the head unit.
I am guessing that the info above will not be of any use to you unless there are unused connector blocks on your amp.



_Modified by v10tdiguy at 8:26 AM 11-13-2006_


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (v10tdiguy)*

Thanks for checking into that...
Still doesn't explain the discrepency in that German detail with the rear line outs?? There must be a setup that uses those.
Oh well, it appears that the Nav unit with 11 speakers is anything but an easy setup to replace with an aftermarket deck!
Time to switch gears and use an aftermarket amp... screwed for that trip down to NC... one more with the stock nav!


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## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: (tbgame32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tbgame32* »_
Still doesn't explain the discrepency in that German detail with the rear line outs?? There must be a setup that uses those.
Oh well, it appears that the Nav unit with 11 speakers is anything but an easy setup to replace with an aftermarket deck!
Time to switch gears and use an aftermarket amp... screwed for that trip down to NC... one more with the stock nav!









It is possible that the 2 amps listed by HTH above are both for the US systems and not for Europe. There was a TSB in "04" To replace the amp if a customer indicated insufficient bass output. The second amp listed by HTH is the one the one to be installed via this TSB. The amp being replaced could be the first amp. Not that this is material but it is still likely that there are one or more amps being used in Europe that are different from the US amps.
I think you are making a wise decision to move on to an aftermarket amp. This will give you the opportunity to enhance the sound coming from your system along with the head unit.


_Modified by v10tdiguy at 9:07 AM 11-13-2006_


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## tbgame32 (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: (v10tdiguy)*

ya, but wiring to the doors and replacing speakers with new mounts, etc is beyond me...
Ok, this whole thing is probably beyond me, but it was fun, albeit frustrating at times, trying.
Thanks for the info.
I'll post pictures whenever this project gets completed!


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