# 2.0aba 8v on CIS



## notsoslow (Nov 5, 2009)

*2.0aba turbo on CIS*

I just got this setup on the road and i am have a problem with it gettin real lean when I get into boost. What it is: 2.0 aba bottom end, 8v counterflow head, CIS Basic, Audi 5000T Wur, I am running a narrow band A/F meter that is spot on under normal driving conditions. my turbo is a Greddy tdo5h 18g. as soon as I get into boost the car dives on the A/F meter... it goes really lean. What am I missing? 
I am suspect of the stock fuel pump not being able to keep up. should I look into getting an 044 fuel pump, or is there something else I should look into? Thanks for your input.

















_Modified by notsoslow at 8:12 PM 2-23-2010_


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## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*FV-QR*

what size injectors are you running?
get a wideband A/F gauge
the stock CIS pump is plenty powerful for what you need

this setup looks like yo put a lot of time and money into it. why did you decide to keep the CIS?
megasquirt can be had for under 500 bucks.


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## notsoslow (Nov 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Flipdriver80)*

I am running the stock but new Injectors, which I understand a re more than capable of flowing enough fuel. I have a narrow band AF meter. I know it dosnt tell me exact ratio's but it does tell if I am close in the ball park. I built this car with CIS because I wanted to see if I could do it ( honestly I didn't even know that Mega Squirt was so in expensive)
I did a lot of research and it seems like the system should work I just feel like there is one little detail that I am missing. It is soo close. 
Thanks for the complement on my work, this has been a build from scratch project. Can't buy a kit for this project ( aside from an old Callaway)


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## booested4door (Jun 10, 2004)

*FV-QR*

check fuel pressure at wot... you might need to shim the fd..also, whats up with the kinked hose off the intake mani? prolly not helping!


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## notsoslow (Nov 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (booested4door)*

I am trying to set up a fuel pressure gauge but it is tough coming up woth fittings. I did add a .99mm shim to my existing shim of .99mm already, giving me a total of 1.98mm Ive seen guys go up to 2.1mm but no further. The kinked hose is just my brake booster vacuum line( brakes still work just fine, but I do plan on fixing this) 
As far as checking the fuel pressure should I check WOT pressure at the control pressure side or the supply pressure side? 
Where would be the best spot to tap it in at?
Thanks for the help. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (notsoslow)*

it looks like you've only added the audi wur to the vw fuel dist
the vw cis distributor "funnel" lacks the "full load curve" according to robert bentley publishers "Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management" 
i've never seen the full load curve on any vw & always on any other makes so...it fails na as it is (dont remember looking or seeing three different funnel angles in basic though)
basically the 5000 had a full load curve & you dont
you can look inside any funnel & see two or three distinct machined surfaces, you need 3 but i'm not aware of a 4 cyl "proper" funnel
all the 5000 wur does is allow the cis plate to go up easier (richer) & since you lack the full load curve...
in the eighties, i saw somebody adding a sleeve to insert into the funnel & it would become a full load curve, up top only, that would make the plate go higher for the same amount of air flow, but only with lots of air already moving
so i tried to make one myself & although it's all quite shameful, i had success
http://i659.photobucket.com/al...4.jpg
http://i659.photobucket.com/al...7.jpg
http://i659.photobucket.com/al...3.jpg
i redid this once with even more influence for e85, but i didn't get pics & it's outta here
you'd wanna stay off control pres & measure fuel pres, but the fuel pump should have no problem maintaining oe sys pres, with the cis plate all the way up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
your 4 cyl cis funnel is completely different than the 5 cyl funnel, not in the extra cylinder air, but in the missing "full load curve"/VE map fail of vw's version IMO
i think i said full load curve too much


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## notsoslow (Nov 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (EL DRIFTO)*

Thanks for the response El drifto but I don't understand what the tabs that you bolted into you air funnel have to do with leaning out under boost? I will go out and get some pics of my intake funnel and post them up.


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## notsoslow (Nov 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (notsoslow)*









This shows the three different machined surfaces that the air funnel has.















This shows the first line separating the machined angles















This Image shows the Separation between the second and third angles. is this what you had in mind by your previous post Eldrifto?


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (notsoslow)*

my 16v scirocco had cis-e, it didn't have that & the proper cure is an electronic device you set to increase the dpr ma @ an adjustable rpm
i just put the fins there to cause an air restriction & the plate would have to move up higher to let the same amount of air through
yours are obviously there


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (EL DRIFTO)*

I love seeing cis builds


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

*FV-QR*

thats a nice Cis setup
We we did that last Cis setup we used A 924 Fuel meter


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## notsoslow (Nov 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Daskoupe)*

^^ thanks... how did the 924 fuel meter work out for you? what kind of specs do you have on your last setup. I am always trying to refine the tune. Wasn't the 924 a 6 cylinder what did you do with the other ports on the disto?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (notsoslow)*

That looks like one very neat setup you have there & look forward to hearing about how it goes when its all tuned up.
As far as your lean out problem...
An quick & easy check & the first thing that came to mind is, I'd check which side of the Audi Warm Up Reg. you have fitted the boost signal hose.
You don't fit it to the barbed fitting.
You fit it to the other non-barbed open/vent fitting. This will give you boost enrichment.
Post up a pic to comfirm if in doubt.

Check my sig & my K-Jet build up incl. a bunch of pics about setting up & tuning this kind of stuff.

I originally had mine fitted to the barbed fitting & tested it with a compresor regulated to 15psi & found it didn't lower the control pressure & thus richening up the mixture.
Once I fitted it to the other fitting/vent above it & retested it, it dropped control pressure & richened up the mixture.
Hope this helps


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## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*FV-QR*

were there ever any cars on cis that came turbocharged?
maybe you could run 2 fuel distributors? i know it sounds crazy but the old ferarri testarossa's came with Bosch CIS and utilized 2 intake assemblies with fuel distributors.


















_Modified by Flipdriver80 at 7:44 AM 2-25-2010_


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## instg8r (Sep 22, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Flipdriver80)*

narrowband a/f meter is useless....
get a wideband.

when i had my old cis turbo car, the narrowband a/f meter would dive lean....but the car was choking on fuel








I ended up tuning the car myself by smell and sound. That was more usefull then the narrowband.
i'll never trust one of those...


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## notsoslow (Nov 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

Mk1-20v Thanks for posting up I am going to check the hoses out first thing this morning. I was and am hoping it is something simple like this.
I will definitely post up some pics and stats on the results.


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## notsoslow (Nov 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Flipdriver80)*








http://i9.photobucket.com/albu...e.jpg









Hey Flipdriver80 do you think this motor will fit in myMK1 Rabbit?


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## notsoslow (Nov 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Mk1-20V)*

I switched the vac hose from the small barbed fitting in the back to the larger one in front. It did seem to run a little better under boost but still only about 4 lbs or so.






























I think I will try and hook up the MBC and crank it up tommorrow and we will see what happens I still have to adjust my linkages to miss the charge side of my turbo then i will be good to go.
Do youthink that I will need to add a fith injector (micro fueler)/?


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## VWDugan (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (notsoslow)*

i know its ugly....but my friend used a mecedes benz v8 cis setup on his 16vT rabbit....that thing was disgustingly fast and never leaned out. the whole setup was super ghetto but it worked beautifully...
btw...the turbo on his motor came off a for f-350 6.0L powerstroke diesel lmao


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (VWDugan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWDugan* »_i know its ugly....but my friend used a mecedes benz v8 cis setup on his 16vT rabbit....that thing was disgustingly fast and never leaned out. the whole setup was super ghetto but it worked beautifully...
btw...the turbo on his motor came off a for f-350 6.0L powerstroke diesel lmao

















Now that is one very banged up looking engine bay from the clearance made to clear the turbo, to all the cable ties & the lake of the bonnet latch!!!
How smashed up is the radiator !!!!! 

Still though, one very impressive looking setup & I'm sure it would haul arse!!! 
Love the short runner intake too.

You don't really notice its a down draught setup too, but thats how the merc CIS was.

Seeing this has given me some ideas if I ever do another K-Jet turbo


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## notsoslow (Nov 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (notsoslow)*

I added I NC/NO Pressure swicth and added a fifth injector. Now its seems to run quite a bit better. still working on the tune, but it seems to get better the more I drive it and adjust a bit here and there.





























































I am hoping to get it running really well and get it on a local dyno.. If it would hook up with the pavement I would like to get on the track this spring.


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