# WTF Integrated Engineering (IE)



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

guys, i just wanted to say this:

WTF? we know INA took the time and did this for us... and is also offering it at a GREAT price...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-Oil-Cooler-Kits-Billet-Valve-covers-amp-More

so.. why would Integrated engineering would do THIS:

http://www.intengineering.com/Integrated-Engineering-p9551637-1-2.html

this is the reason why i deal with INA. they dont copy, they are honest.

i just wanted to show people what IE is, and why is it not good to "help" this company to stay afloat.


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## HIBB 304 (Nov 8, 2008)

thygreyt said:


> guys, i just wanted to say this:
> 
> WTF? we know INA took the time and did this for us... and is also offering it at a GREAT price...
> 
> ...


opcorn:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i'm aware that IE will and should flame me.

they are going to say that im a fan boy or something.

But in all honesty, i'm just "reporting" what happened... after what OBX did to EJ, i strongly dislike when one company copies another, such as this case.

INA's design...









IE copied design


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

While I find it amusing that you think we "copied" the INA plate, there are two things you fail to realize... 1) Both are the exact shape of the outside of the OE oil filter housing / cooler, so unless you want us to machine a pretty bow in it or something for you, it's going to look pretty much the same. 2) Ours came out only a couple of days after the INA one... It was at anodizing before we even knew of the existance of the INA one. Go back on this forum and check the exact dates if you care so much... So, while we were disappointed to be beat to market, it was a physical impossibility to have copied the "design" in the first place. Not to mention that anybody with half or even a quarter of a brain can see that the two parts are not the same. :sly:

Have fun with your little conspiracy theories / bashing. :thumbup: :laugh:


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## aquino (Mar 12, 2007)

OH SNAP gif anyone?


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

You people don't get it. Obviously the part does the same thing and INA's, yes. The bolt holes have to be drilled the same, OR IT WOULDN'T FIT. Same with the placement of the oil fittings. The shape of the plate are completely different! But that doesn't matter! How many exhaust company's are there? TONS. Are some of their parts the same looking as other company's, YES. That's because its a design that works, and its the only way for it to work. You gunna bash them for making connecting rods for the 2.5? Say that they copied VW's design? Dont go out bashing Integrated for no reason. They are a reputable company and i have several of their manufactured parts on my own car. Your just making your self look bad in front of the entire vortex community, which unfortunately contains people like yourself who are just a bunch of tire kickers and know-it-all's. END RANT


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Well, I just want to say that I regret making a thread in which I don't want to destroy a company's rep by posting the bigger picture.


You think I'm wrong? Great for you...

Oh, and brabbit32 I thought you were done with vortex... Just saying


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

not really wanting to go on any side here at all....BUT i'll voice a company opinion and insight. 

-how many R32 rear adjustable control arms are out there? all the same thing, all the same fuction, none better then the other. no perfromance differnce, just design differences
-how many 16v fuel rails, or dist block offs are out there? all the same thing, all the same fuction, none better then the other. no perfromance differnce,
just design differences
-how many catch cans are out for a 2.0FSI? all the same thing, all the same fuction, none better then the other. no perfromance differnce, just design differences
-how many SAI block offs are out there? all the same thing, all the same fuction, none better then the other. no perfromance differnce, just design differences
-how many race tow hooks are out there? all the same thing, all the same fuction, none better then the other. no perfromance differnce, just design differences


not trying to be mean at all but do you get my point? companies are out to make a product and sell it. just because it does the same function, does NOT mean they copied. certian parts you CAN'T do a differnce design or idea because theres only one way to do it. these kits DON'T look the same. both will work.....and work well.


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## elitist (Apr 18, 2006)

It's people like you and threads like this that hurt the industry.
Thank you,
-B


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

elitist said:


> It's people like you and threads like this that hurt the industry.
> Thank you,
> -B


i do try...


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## DrivenAllDay (Mar 13, 2010)

if it wasn't for copying, we wouldn't have an industry. End result is more options to choose from, and healthy competition. This whole industry, and it's progress is innovation!eace:


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

I'd buy either kit and rock the crap out of it.


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## rags2riches (Jan 2, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> Well, I just want to say that I regret making a thread in which I don't want to destroy a company's rep by posting the bigger picture.
> 
> 
> You think I'm wrong? Great for you...
> ...


Dude you, in all due respect, step in a pile of **** with this thread. Like NLS dude mentioned, certain things are hard to put to use on a car without relying on many of the same principles that other companies before them. Sylvania and PIAA both make headlight bulbs and they both have to rely on the way light bulbs work. They look very similar and function the same but a company can't claim to have a patent on how lights work. Same thing with block off plates. I can go make my own custom oil filter/cooler relocation kit the same way INA and IE did. Should they bitch cause I figured out how to do it? Calm down and enjoy the fact that INA doesn't have a lock on this market cause then they'd have no business incentive to provide parts at a cheap price. It's called economics and it is a good thing.


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## dmgraz (Jan 3, 2008)

ib4tl...you just nightshifted yourself


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## seanmcd72 (May 14, 2008)

this is better than a nightshift1983 thread! Wow, what exactly are you trying to achieve here? Get down off of your high horse.


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## aquino (Mar 12, 2007)

seanmcd72 said:


> this is better than a nightshift1983 thread! Wow, what exactly are you trying to achieve here? Get down off of your high horse.


Now that's low.......:laugh:


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

More options is better for us all. A little competition never hurts and besides, we should be thanking any vendor who risks investment in aftermarket parts for our under-appreciated little 2.5L lumps.

Oh, so thank you INA and IE.


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## IJSTROK (Oct 2, 2007)

You complain that there isn't enough 2.5 support and then you say we should try and sink companies that actually give a crap about this engine? C'mon man


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

When your dealing with adapter plates and things like that you cant really stray away from the design or shape of what it mates to... This is like saying BFI should be ashamed of themselves coming out with a mount similar to VF or BSH... Im sure INA could have a few fingers pointed at them as well


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

all of us 2.5ers complain about prices and lack of aftermarket support. 2 companies making the same part solves both issues. Its not like IE is some chinese ebay company like obx


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

BlackRabbit2point5 said:


> all of us 2.5ers complain about prices and lack of aftermarket support. 2 companies making the same part solves both issues. Its not like IE is some chinese ebay company like obx


x2 :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Brabbit32 said:


> rabbbblllleeee rabble rabble rabble whaa whaa cry cry sniffle sniffle


I thought you were going away for good opcorn:


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## HIBB 304 (Nov 8, 2008)

So much fail here.:thumbdown:


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## elitist (Apr 18, 2006)

This turned out just as you wanted it. No? bummer, eh?
:laugh:
-B


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## turtles (Mar 17, 2010)




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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)




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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

turtles said:


>


Hahahaha nice, I see what Greyt is saying and I can understand where hes comin from buttt, I gotta agree with everyone else on this one. Theres only so many ways to make certain parts and some of them will look very similar. They will all do the same thing and perform exactly the same for the most part. From what Ive seen from both of these companies tho gives me nothing to complain about. They both make quality parts that most other companies havent even thought of producing yet or havent produced. Most likely, one of these guys will be coming out with cams that everyone has been wanting for a longgg time. Thats saying something right there.


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

Come on, grey. I didn't expect something like this from you..

IE and INA are offering similar products. So what.
Everything is reverse engineered, plain and simple.
Competition is good for the consumer anyway. 
Kudos to both companies for 2.5l innovations!


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## 13713 (Sep 10, 2011)

Anyone with a 2.5l Jetta has been hurting for parts for quite some time. Especially those of us who own the last batch of them, as more and more 2.5's go past the warranty you are going to see more performance modifications and parts hit the market. There are going to be a lot of parts that look damn near the same or exactly the same minus company name and perhaps color so get used to it. INA should feel honored that other companies are finally breaking into the industry to focus on not only 1.8 upgrades but also now 2.5 upgrades, they might have been the first for a lot of things and they have a huge advantage by jumping on board for 2.5 upgrade development first as their knowledge is much more extensive and advanced over the competition. 

Live and let live, if you have to post something angry about a performance part from a company that has yet to gain your trust or support, base it on the foundation of bad design, production flaws or blatant rip off that is a fluke and not advancement. No reason to let things like this get to you or your going to have high blood pressure for the foreseeable future as now that companies have seen INA manufacture parts for our cars they are started to dip their own feet into the water and test the temperature...


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I think in the end....the more the merrier! If I have fifty companies making the same product, then the game starts getting fun! We need as much product development that we can get with the 2.5!

What this thread sounds like to me is for once, we have OPTIONS! we aren't used to that with this motor! Maybe greyt (correct me if I'm wrong) would have liked to see another (different) product made by ina! But its all about timing!

I think of it like this... This snafu will light a little fire under the rear of every company! Making them jump on r&d and get that coveted "first" that every company wants... A couple days is nothing to get mad about...both companies make AMAZING products, have great customer service and excel at pushing the boundaries of product development... 

Whatever the case, I doubt greyt was trying to be malicious in any way, maybe mis-informed... 

Looking forward to seeing what goodies we can lap all our drool up over in the future from BOTH companies!

/thread!


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> so unless you want us to machine a pretty bow in it or something for you:


That'd be great!


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Another good example is the dog bone mount insert. I'm not sure who came up with the first one, but everybody makes their own version of the same thing in a different colour. BSH, ECS, BFI, and I'm sure others. As well as Autotech who makes their metal insert. And then HPA comes along and makes their OEM replacement lower engine mount thingy. Any development from a company who actually cares about and caters to the VW community is good with me.

For example, if this part thats being referred to was suddenly made by Cobb or Skunk2 or something JDM I would definitely raise a stink. IE is making good quality products for the community. When it comes time for me to get rods and internals, I will look no further than IE, unless someone else comes out with a quality product that competes with it.

Bottom line, keep the money and the support with the companies that eat, sleep, and breathe VW the way all of us do, otherwise, don't expect them to come when we're calling for new parts.


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

lessthanalex said:


> Another good example is the dog bone mount insert. I'm not sure who came up with the first one, but everybody makes their own version of the same thing in a different colour. BSH, ECS, BFI, and I'm sure others. As well as Autotech who makes their metal insert. And then HPA comes along and makes their OEM replacement lower engine mount thingy. Any development from a company who actually cares about and caters to the VW community is good with me.
> 
> For example, if this part thats being referred to was suddenly made by Cobb or Skunk2 or something JDM I would definitely raise a stink. IE is making good quality products for the community. When it comes time for me to get rods and internals, I will look no further than IE, unless someone else comes out with a quality product that competes with it.
> 
> Bottom line, keep the money and the support with the companies that eat, sleep, and breathe VW the way all of us do, otherwise, don't expect them to come when we're calling for new parts.


heh actually most companies (BSH and ECS at least) resell the NRG suspension insert as their own. Same part can be had for $13 if you don't mind sending money to a company thats more into the JDM market


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## elitist (Apr 18, 2006)

TylerO28 said:


> I think in the end..../thread!


That about sums it all up. Another worthless MK5 thread that just hurt the VW world more.
:beer: cheers to you Mr Grey.
-B


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Thanks, I do try my best!


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## darkk (Jun 22, 2006)

Competition is good for business.....


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## vento86 (Oct 13, 2008)




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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

darkk said:


> Competition is good for business.....


Well competition is good for the consumer since they have more options and vendors must be cost/feature competitive. Not sure it's good for business. Most businesses prefers monopoly.


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

Wow don't tell thegreyt that there are BBS replicas out there... his head might explode. Just kidding dude 

Good luck though and keep on fighting the good fight brother!

Both companies are building a plate to cover a hole that is cut from a block of metal. There's only so much room for these products to vary in the sense that both companies are providing a quality custom machined product at a price point as low as their time can be worth.

Now if INA and IE somehow both had the exact same CNC progam, that would be copying... actually stealing. Which I'm sure if you sat down and mic'd these pieces is not true.




Oh, and don't compare this relationship between block off plates (again a plate over a hole as cheap as u can make it on a machine that cuts stuff programmed by two guys with similar experience, and probably training) to the header situation with OBX. The header situation was completely different and i'm sure IE really resents the inferred comment to the effect of "IE is selling block off plates on ebay!" which is essentially what that comparison makes. If you've got an exhaust header, designed independently by two companies, just like an intake manifold, you're going to get very different results. Again, a plate over a hole... for as cheap as they can justify building one, not so much.

If I make a block off plate that fits over a hole i'm copying anyone that made a plate to fit over that hole, unless i add LED lights or custom engraving? I mean come on dude its a HOLE and a COVER. Please tell me how different you think two machinists/engineers are going to design and manufacture something when the only goal is low price, low price, low price, in a niche market and the only thing the plate does is cover a hole... its not like this is a complex device with flow characteristics, custom fabrication, and hundreds of prototypes and six figure research budget....

In my engineering classes you'd be shocked how often two groups come up with practically identical solutions to simple problems like this. The magic isn't in the product itself, but how you build it... for example someone that can make something in 6 cuts with 1 tool is going to make more money than the guy that does it in 7 cuts with 2 tools. So appreciate the competition because one of these days someone is going to come along and "copy" something, but make it at half the cost and you'll be right there lining up to buy it.

If you want to talk about engineers copying each other, look at the ford four link suspension from before the MK5 and then crawl up under there, try not to get to hurt that you're driving a VW that copied ford, not even a modern ford at that lol.


I guess the first company to come out with an injection molded plastic block off plate for about $14 is going to be coping all of them? Or is that not copying because its made out of plastic instead of a fancy shiny brag to all your friends expensive billet piece?

What about the random guy that decides to make a run of plates at his shop on the side? Is he copying because he is also a machinist, engineer, and building a plate to cover a hole?

I'm just really confused where the line is drawn here and feel that this one is a bit of a stretch bro. They're both cut from blocks of metal, designed to cover a hole, and created by professionals with similar skill level and experience who probably know from many years of CNC work how to build something, to specifications, as cheaply as possible. Just think back to kindergarden, where you're all cutting ducks out of a piece of paper. You're all tracing the same duck, cutting the same duck, using same tools, and same paper. Now tell me how differently these ducks are going to end up? Some kids will cut from one starting point, others another, some will cut out lots of little pieces, some lots of big pieces, some maybe even ONE long cut! Now in the end, you've got a lot of ducks but tell me who copied who? The only real difference is going to be in the manufacturing with some products. Appreciate the competition, and learn to love the clever bastard that does it for half the cost of the other guy. 

Quite frankly, tracing a hole and then building a billet plate to fit that hole isn't much different from ducks to these engineers. They're clever clever lil you know what's...

After my 24v, 12v, and 16v motors, this is nothing new to me. I wish I was behind the scenes to know what these guys are really making, but honestly they all copy each other. INA does incredible head work and that is something that will never be copied. You don't have to stick up for him he's been around a long while and definitely knows what he is doing. Won't be going anywhere.

Ok /end rant and grey, no offense dude. I still love you. If you want to sit down with a mic and hire a machinist to explain to us in a technical way, why these are copied and could not be independently designed then go for it. But somehow I think INA has already looked into this for himself... if not, then its not worth his time. God i wish I made that kinda $$$ and possessed those skills.

Can we just turn this into an INA is god thread plz?


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## darkk (Jun 22, 2006)

kungfoojesus said:


> keep on fighting the good fight brother!Can we just turn this into an INA is god thread plz?


Dude!.... I wish I had some of whatever it is that you are smoking!


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Ducks are ducks...who gives a ****? haha. Well put.


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## elitist (Apr 18, 2006)

darkk said:


> Dude!.... I wish I had some of whatever it is that you are smoking!


He is an idiot anyways.
-B


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

elitist said:


> He is an idiot anyways.
> -B


lol i have a fan woot. thanks dude for the helpful comments and opinions on this topic!


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## timmiller05 (Mar 26, 2010)

I wish i thought this thread was a joke...Grey you must be 7 for even starting a thread like this.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

He said he has his reasons. He also said he won't divulge that information. So there we have it. The thread is a joke


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