# ITB super high idle, MS2 Inside



## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

*FML more crap, connection problems now*

So, I just put the OBX ITB on my 82 rabbit, ABA. With the Vacuum connected to the MAP sensor it Idles at 3500RPM, with it disconnected it runs at approx 1200, which is fine by me, can someone look at my settings (MSQ file) and see what I may be missing? It has been a while since I have had to tweak anything and am kindof stumped. I am using factory TPS, GM CTS and factory CKP.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

seems you need to retune, what was on it before those ITB's? You may need to switch from speed-density to alpha-n for tuning. Who tuned the prior setup?


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

I set it up previously, 3 years ago, stock intake mani, custom piping and cone filter. I will take a peek at my fuel metering settings, can I send you my file to see if I have something stupid turned on that should be off?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Sure, but you do know that the kPa range on a motor w/ ITB's is generally much narrower than the same motor w/ a manifold with a common TB. Meaning it will be harder to tune with the speed-density settings and will need the switch to alpha-n. MS2 may have some other features to make this easier.

PM sent.


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

Awesome, PM responded. Emailed attachment.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

if you stay speed-density or go alpha-n, you will have to rebuild your tables, as in change the range of the kPa(for speed-density) or switch them to Throttle ADC (for alpha-n). And change the "# of squirts per cycle" to 1 from 4 since you have all the injectors on one bank.(If I am wrong, someone please correct me.)

Then you will have to re-tune the tables. Start with getting the idle good and go from there. It might be beneficial to maybe get a sync tool to ensure each TB is pulling the same amount of air. We never got that far with our ITB build.


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

So, I can't use Alpha-n unless I have a functional TPS then correct? Mine binds because the throttle sensor hookup on these ITB's does not fit properly so I had to make a bracket, and I think it is slightly off center, causing the throttle to not return properly and have excessive pull on the cable.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

ps2375 said:


> And change the "# of squirts per cycle" to 1 from 4 since you have all the injectors on one bank.(If I am wrong, someone please correct me.)


 You're wrong . Leave it at 1 squirt.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

The biggest deal when tuning ITB's for me is getting them properly balanced. Proper balance is critical to a decent idle. Actually a proper balance is critical to good drivability period.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Prof315 said:


> You're wrong . Leave it at 1 squirt.


 If you read that, that is what I told him to do, as he currently has it set for 4 squirts per cycle.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

ps2375 said:


> If you read that, that is what I told him to do, as he currently has it set for 4 squirts per cycle.


 Well that's what I get for replying while not yet fully awake!


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

More bs. I got my POS running and Idling ok, took it on a 4 mile test drive, got back, shut car off, would not restart and lost comm with the ECU. Verified power and ground, I can't get it to respond. Any idea where to start? This is really pssing me off, it's summer dammit!


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## psychobandito (Sep 10, 2009)

Are you running direct coil control? if so, how many grounds from the ECU do you have?


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

I am running the bip373 coil setup, for fielding one ABA OE coil. I have all the grounds atttached to one lug, body grounded. I hooked my Stim up for S&Gs and still have no communication, the Laptop sees that there is a connection, but will not communicate still... 


:banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## psychobandito (Sep 10, 2009)

How many black wires are coming out of the harness? I didn't have a ground on 1,3,4,5. and blew the com board.


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

6 ground wires. I bought the ECU and harness from DIYautotune How would I determine if my comm is bad then


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

Ok guys, I may have gotten it fingered out, I ultimately removed the ECU, powered it up inside, fnally got it to write firmware after like three tries, I upgraded to the latest release. Updated Tunerstudio INI file yada yada. It shows up on my tuner studio now with all wrong values as it is just beng powered by the stim, but it is communicating, that was the hard part. Now I have to rewire several connectors that I pulled apart to check for poor connections, such as the CKP.. 

Ultimately, could the firmware have gotten corrupted by something like a power spike hooking up the battery if the key was rolled forward? 

I am now basically looking to put logic to the cause of the problem, the loss of com. I am hoping that can prove to be the explanation as I have no other ideas for it once I get my wires reassembled.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

The only time I have seem firmware problems is if it's supplied with low voltage, either on key on or crank. 

If you want to keep most of your tune, power up use the current controller version, then load your msq over it. Accept errors and then go through the msq from there.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

When you get back to the idle issue start with these questions: 

Do you have a common collector for vacuum sampling from each cylinder? Running speed density on itb's is a no-no for most setups. The vacuum swings of being so close in physical proximity to atmosphere are huge which would have you jumping back and forth on for fuel VE1 and ignition map. You want to read the TPS as primary.


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

Low voltage is also very possible, I have a small motorsport battery, I may have been partially discharged. It has a vacuum rail yes, and Thanks Paul, I will give that a shot as well. Hopefully will have results after work tonight.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Ditto on tps load. 

Another idle tip, lock timing at a fixed value and tune fuel around idle then un-fix it and smooth timing in the same area.


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, I upgraded the firmware to 2.9something, and now none of my settings will cross over, what is the easiest way to look them back up and enter them again?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Open your old msq offline, export all the tables. Go through the msq from scratch for the rest.


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

I think i got most of the crap switched over, however the CKP is reading 5k at cranking speed and bouncing around.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Trigger settings

-Andrew


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

I understand that, however, I set all the values in the newer setup of tuner studio and it doesnt have the same options for settings.


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)




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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Post a screen shot of your old trigger settings?


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

Should I have any trigger offset on a standard ABA 60-2 tooth wheel? I am thinking my crank sensor may have gone out, causing a large portion of this headache. I will test with a scope this evening. And have a G28 sensor on hand if that is the case. However it is off to work I go for now. I


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

No offset on crank trigger. 60 teeth, 2 missing, 78deg tooth1 angle should be it. 

Also, what firmware is that, it doesn't look familiar.


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

That's what I thought, And It is 2.90500 Not familiar to me either. Maybe I need to get different firmware on it? I dunno.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Yes, go with newest firmware release found on http://www.msextra.com


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Ah 2.9x is ms2 B&G code. Use /Extra


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

I love you guys. Will post results tonight around 730 hopefully.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

ps2375 said:


> Sure, but you do know that the kPa range on a motor w/ ITB's is generally much narrower than the same motor w/ a manifold with a common TB. Meaning it will be harder to tune with the speed-density settings and will need the switch to alpha-n.


 i had good luck tuning an AE86 with 20v throttle bodies on S-D... it ran a bit richer than needed at part throttle but idle and full load were excellent. 
could be worth a shot to at least try, its easy enough to change the tune. 

that particular setup was on a rally car though, so they werent trying to drive it at part throttle for more than a few minutes to move out of the pits...


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, my rpm comes and goes from 300rpm to 0 while cranking and is not producing spark. Going to try a ckp and report back.


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> i had good luck tuning an AE86 with 20v throttle bodies on S-D... it ran a bit richer than needed at part throttle but idle and full load were excellent.
> could be worth a shot to at least try, its easy enough to change the tune.
> 
> that particular setup was on a rally car though, so they werent trying to drive it at part throttle for more than a few minutes to move out of the pits...


 Good to know, I do some part throttle while driving, mostly wot when i can  
There is now a ITB setting for fuel and spark control, have people had good luck with that?


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

twas the ckp. Car starts now I get to start down the long road of retuning lol and tweaking my idle back down.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Running the extra firmware? It's good stuff.


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

Yeah, now I'm running extra lean, I think I may have a bad fuel pump or plugged filters, it just keeps getting better lol.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Try bumping up your required fuel. Check fuel pressure with a gauge before you make repairs of course. 

-Andrew


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

I have 45psi +- 3 psi running, my wideband gauge is indicating while running it starts around 14:1 and ramps up to 21:1 then returns and repeats. I have my required fuel at 17.3 So I must have ****ed up some other setting somewhere. Any suggestions on where to start looking? I have a rattle in my engine right now too. I am praying it is just from running way to lean...


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

17.3 sounds like a big reqfuel, what injector size?


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

Stock. I tried bumping it up to make it not run so lean. I am just stumped. And now am worried I damaged my engine.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

There's barely a load on the engine at idle so it is very difficult to break something unless you run it for a very very very long time.


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

:\ I know, but I own a demon. So I am expecting the worse


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Lean can be from misfires too, try going the other way with fuel?


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

Whatever it is, my injectors only flow like 1.4 ms at idle, and shut off every couple seconds


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Thats not right, you getting resets? Take a log?


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

IT looks like possibly over-run fuel cut was on for some reason. No idea why, this appears to have been causing the fuel cut out. However it still idles lean. And high again.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Add fuel in the lower left of the fuel table.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

^what he said... once you have the req fuel known and an idle, it's time to start tuning.


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, back to running normal again, albeit a little high, I will be driving it tomorrow, toning down the idle a bit and giving it some much needed repairs. Thanks a TON for all the insight and I will post up if I have any more questions. 

pix for clix.


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## psychobandito (Sep 10, 2009)

what fuel pressure regulator are you running?


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## ojeeztutone (Oct 31, 2009)

45 psi


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