# 1990 Vw gti 8v



## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

I was told to post here as I may get some better insight on my issues. I'm gonna start out with the info on the car it's a 90 gti 8v it runs pretty good has about 186k. The car has been tampered with by a "foreign mechanic" according to receipts found in glove box from previous owner. Now the car runs good, but I mean it's got random wires and random ground points, the electrical plug for the thermos witch was hard wired in so no plug there, the fab and headlights when one take up so much load, the ignition is wired to a relay in the dash that was clearly aftermarket, the car runs great some days and some days it doesn't, I've checked all vacuum lines and everything is good till recently that one broke and well now car runs a hell of a lot better, I also did the AFM mod but I turned it clockwise meaning the wheel went counter clockwise and pin went forward, and that didn't seem to help, the O2 sensor is new, oh and worse of all the one I hate the most, well two, the gas gauge doesn't work and also the ac switches on the hard line in front by radiator are cut so no ac. Also the car has gotten this habit of sometimes not starting, thought it was ground but cleaned it all up and didn't change much. 


I'm gonna post some pics and I'll add more to whoever has a good idea on these engines, I also noticed the digi isnt even bolted down and it's also grey not black like most I've seen. 











https://vimeo.com/117296937

https://vimeo.com/117297041

https://vimeo.com/117297178

https://vimeo.com/117297266

Those are all in a timely order. The last video being after the vacuum line broke. Still haven't pin pointed the starting issue but it hasn't done it again. Please ask me questions and help me figure this thing out I'm trying to get it daily material. And I just can't yet. I ordered the spark plug wires gonna do a tune up soon also some Vw vacuum line to replace all the lines then next will be better ground as well as proper grounding as I see no ground to the head or alternator only grounds are from battery to chassis to trans bolt. 

Thank you!


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Bump? Any ideas where to start with this behemoth?! Lol 


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

First I'd remove the alarm sys. Buy a Bently and get wiring figured out. And poss a new ign sw, as it seems they thought it easier to do the sw in the dash than to replace the sw. And my next big thing would be to discard the digi system and replace it with Megasquirt(my Rabbit ran it's best for many years in it).


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

I've tried to search the megasquirt and can't find much on it, is it a whole ecu and harness or what? As for the alarm it's all removed from what I know. Cuz the box in the engine bay had cut wires and the led light inside was also cut. 


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

MS info is in the standalone forum and at various MS sites. It is basically an ECU for fuel and/or spark that is very tune-able and user friendly. There is many places to get help with building, tuning and installation, it was originally meant as a diy type of thing, but there are varying levels of peoples abilities and thus, you can get unassembled kits to full built systems.


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

I'm researching it now and wow. Don't understand a thing haha. I messaged DIY tuners and he quoted me pretty much $900 for a full plug and play basically. But damn that's almost what I paid for the car!


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

I did mine for about a third of that with all the other stuff I needed to buy, but most of it was used. Depending upon your skill level with mechanical and then the electrical parts, pnp is one end of the spectrum, I was at the other end being able to understand and do all my own stuff. Not saying is was super professional looking, but MS NEVER left me stranded on the side of the road. And I put over 100K miles on it with the MS installed.


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Wow that's great. Definitely researching every chance I get. Funny cuz today I was gonna take it to work with me but I went and cranked it up and it started great and was revving great like this weekend it was(still with that vacuum hose disconnected/broken) and then I realize it has a huge fuel leak, the line right after the fuel filter that goes into the box reservoir thing I forgot the name(module?) has a huge slice on it. Had a LOT of pressure coming out too and car was still on and idling perfect. Now I know that could be great but I mean considering how weird everything this car is to me lol I'm not sure what to think of it. So that's next on list fuel filter and short little hose lol. 


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

So I did some ground cleaning today. Rewired the O2 as all the wires were corroded. Found a wire there through harness that looked like a ground so I did. And car ran like pooop so I removed it. The wiring on this car is a mess. I really wanna try and save it before I jump into megasquirt since I don't have the time to put such a thing together. But then I removed the ground and it ran better in fact it's running great. But that vacuum for the fuel is still disconnected. I don't understand! 

https://vimeo.com/117688778
That's how it was running, down low it would just choke but once it got up there it opened up real nice and quick.bthat was with the wire grounded which I will show below.








this is where the car has most of its grounds apparently, nothing to the head. And the yellow one is the one I grounded it was that short off the firewall harness bundle so I figured it had to be ground. It was a weird wire had a wire inside of a wire is about as clear as I can explain it. Any idea what it is?









These three on my finger are the O2 which I spliced into halfway down because of corrosion and openings, I'll most likely replace everything but I mean does that look correct color wise? Sorry if quality isn't best.









I also noticed the alternator doesn't have a ground to it like I've seen in some 8v and there's a loose plug there, not sure what it's for. But car does dim it's lights once fan kicks on or when radio is turned up pretty high.


Any suggestions and ideas would be great. Thank you




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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

My previous response seems to have disappeared -- so I'll try again.

- It isn't unusual to find the grounds attached to the side of the intake manifold as in your car. Normally they are attached to the bottom stud/bolt of the coolant hose flange at the end of the head.

- The O2 sensor should have 3 wires. One is a shielded wire -- like coaxial cable. That is for the sensor. The shielding is usually grounded. The other two wires run the heating element in the sensor. One is power and the other is ground. It wouldn't surprise me if the car has a bad sensor. The car will run without it and they cost some $$ so they get neglected. The car will run better with it. Replacing the sensor can be a chore as they are usually quite well frozen into the exhaust system. 

- You are correct -- there is usually a flat copper wire from the alternator to the bracket or engine. The connector you are asking about at the alternator usually has a blue wire which goes into the fuse and relay panel and ends up in the cluster. That is for the alternator light. Does your light work???? It should come on when the key is turned. 

There is also usually a larger flat woven copper wire with a black coating that runs from the lower coil bracket bolt to the engine. That wire is often missing and can sometimes be found hanging by the firewall -- it usually attaches to the cylinder head cover -- right rear corner. FR


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Fat Rabbit said:


> My previous response seems to have disappeared -- so I'll try again.
> 
> - It isn't unusual to find the grounds attached to the side of the intake manifold as in your car. Normally they are attached to the bottom stud/bolt of the coolant hose flange at the end of the head.
> 
> ...


I'm working on just getting a complete harness and re running everything. This ones just too tampered with. 


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## vwjunkie747 (May 22, 2013)

Jon316 said:


> I'm working on just getting a complete harness and re running everything. This ones just too tampered with.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


thats probably your best bet


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Have you guys done the AFM mod? I can't seem to pinpoint whether the wheel goes clockwise or counterclockwise. They way I moved it was the needle forward hence needle clockwise but actual wheel counter. Is that correct?


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Just wanna run this problem on here just in case one of you guys have come across it. So Saturday I picked up the car in the morning and went out gas and drove it around everywhere got some errands done, and for a while now occasionally the car won't crank. You turn the key and just nothing, but most of the time it just takes a second to crank or just a couple more tries. And then bloop starts perfectly fine. But yesterday, all day once again running great it did it twice but only to the point where before I can let go to go troubleshoot it cranked. I went by parents house and dad told me to take my truck that I don't have time during the week for it to give me issues and of course being hard headed I didn't listen, literally as I was leaving their house bam car did not wanna crank for anything. I played with ignition wires, went and played with starter wires and even banged the starter a bit to see if it was stuck and nothing. Had to push start it and drive it home since I had the car full of laundry lol. And then it stalled at home and well cranked up fine. I just don't understand! It's driving me nuts. And it's something that's been tampered with, it has a weird relay setup going on. This damn car is so frustrating not because it's a piece of junk cuz it's not but everything that the previous owners "mechanic" has touched has been so half assed! Next weekend I'm gonna do a Bentley ignition troubleshoot and probably remove starter and test that a few times. But any input from you guys would help. I can provide pics if that helps.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Have you relaced ign sw or do you still have PO's rigged setup in dash? Easy way to test starter is to jump 12V to solenoid and see if it triggers it and cranks.


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Yea same one, don't wanna jump into it till I understand the rig as its relayed and everything but has a weird jump on it 


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

There is your problem, now how you are going to fix it is up to you.


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

I'll get you guys a pic this afternoon. Because although it is a rig it looks like it was done somewhat professionally. I did find a bunch of receipts in the glove box and the company was a "foreign auto specialist" the previous owner "knew" but then again this said mechanic raped the PO with a $370 bill trying to find a "noise" on the front right wheel that he never fixed and well I fixed it with a simple $32 upper shock mount. So yea this car just has me in a loop. I'm thinking of swapping the motor but I REALLY don't wanna make this a project it was intended to be a daily. But of course needs to be reliable for that !


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

Since you don't want to mess with the ignition switch until you have checked it out throughly -- the issue could ba a starter solenoid that isn't working correctly. Used to be that you could replace the solenoid for a few bucks and drive hapily off into the sunset but these days the solenoids are fairly expensive so it is likely better to get a rebuiltr starter with at least a one year warranty (the longer the better). That way you have some recousrse. BTW not starting on-and-off is a symptom of a bad ignition switch. The fix for that is inexpensive (usually under $10 on line)but does take about an hour of time and some wrenching. PM me if you decide to switch it out and I'll cover how I found is best to do it. FR


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Any recommended places to get ignition switch? Or regular eBay one should do? 


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

There are two parts to an ignition switch. The key part and the electrical part. You want to purchase the electrical part. The last one I bought cost around $7.00 on line. One from a FLAPS ran $30 plus at the time -- but I could get it in 24 hours. I imagine that shipping would be about the cost of the switch of you bought it on line. FR


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Forgot to get a picture today when I went by the house between work. But I did go ahead and start the car over and over for about 8 or 9 times and perfectly fine. I'll try to get a pic tommorow of the relay setup and etc. what do I search for just ignition switch? Same for all golfs and Jetta and etc right


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=150572292356 is that it?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Do you not have any local import part stores near you? And, yes, that looks to be correct.

Have you bought a Bently manual yet, THAT is what ebay can be good for.


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Yes I have one. And local auto parts doesn't carry much stuff for Vw sadly and the import ones are all Honda and Toyota. Miami is horrible in the Vw scene! 


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Finally got around to getting to the job. And as usual with things hit a huge speed bump. 

First I want to demonstrate the fuse box, I replaced some of the bad ones in the pic, but there is a spot on top that's burnt out and a wire on the left that looks like it's gotten super hot, and could not pin point them in the Bentley. 








. ^the top fuse 


















^^this random wire? 


















^^the burnt cable 


Also got to the ignition job but came to find out the modules are indeed different. I checked on websites and they seem too look like the one I bought, could I have a later model one? 











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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

There were two different ignition switches used on the 1990's. The early cars used 111905865L -- the same as the '89's. While the later cars used the one you bought 6N0905865. Because the 1990 year was split parts wise you should always buy parts by (1) part number on the car or (2) by the vehicle VIN number. IIRC 1989-1990 was when VW Golfs moved from Central Electrics I to CE II. Early '90s were CEI and later were CE II. Keep than in mind as you look for electrical harnesses.

VW is known for changing parts in the middle of model year runs and it would drive parts people crazy even way back in the air cooled days. Sometimes even the VIN references in the microfiche parts cards were not clear. I remember one air cooled VW that needed a new front fender which was ordered in by PN and painted to match the car only to find out once it was installed, the running light position was slightly different (but noticeable) between the two sides of the car. And I had parts on my '80 Rabbit that, according to the dealer parts department, "couldn't possibly be there" because they were not called out for the car. (It was a year end build out and apparently they used parts from '80 and '81 models to build it.) FR


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Any of you guys know what the prong on the outside of the switch is I hope it's not power..apparently my old switch didn't have it and I can't find any JUST like it. Here is the new switch and the plug that came with the car, as I replaced the switch and nothing no crank.




















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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Got another harness and what happen to be the same exact ignition switch the car had off another member here. I did not put the harness as I wanted to see if the switch alone would cure he issue. But it did not. Below I show what the wires look like. They really dug into this cars wiring and ran a weird really setup. This things an electrical madness and I'm probably gonna have to opt out and just call an electrician. I just can't have this when I'm trying to make the car my daily. 

Anyways here are the pics..


































Notice the odd jump wire with the resistor in the relay and also two wires being spliced. Now I mean the car worked perfectly when I got it, and then started doing the starting issues intermittently then in less than two weeks it would just do it whenever it wanted. It's driving me nuts.


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## kpn3nc (Jul 5, 2008)

you sir, have quite a clusterf*ck of issues. If you're going to get it professionally fixed I'd like to recommend someone to you who has been a friend for a long time. And although you live in Miami, if you can get your car back together and in running order you should drive up to Vero Beach (Exit 147 off of I-95 if I remember correctly and get yourself to Ken at EPR. he's right off of 4th street and US-1. Tell him Joe (with the ugly jetta coupe) sent you. He's a master mechanic and has never failed me in explaining what I needed to do to sort things out. He was always reluctant to do it for me because I was broke though :laugh: But he's the best, hands down. Looking at all of your issues with the ignition and stuff, the only thing that has helped me (because believe me I've had all of those problems and some) were new harnesses. and you have a ce2 car so any of the mk3 cars you might find in a junkyard have the same ignition harness (just some stuff you wont use). I know you have u-pullit's down there and a few other pick and pull yards, so I say good luck to you. Also, on vortex Fat Rabbit knows his stuff, he's helped me out of a few jams too when I couldn't get to ken but had internetz :wave:


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Yea fat rabbit has helped me out a lot! And well o actually have another harness for the the ignition but that relay above is wired in between it all, so I don't wanna remove the relay and end up frying things up. At the moment it's not cranking, and I also happen to be dead broke and gonna be for a few months so sadly the car that was meant to be my daily is now my project. Might just get mad later on in the year and do a vr6 swap! But I really wanted to make this little 1.8 growl.


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Sorry to bring this back but once again, not surprising, car is BACK down. Dad went to go move it said it wouldn't crank and said he saw smoke in the interior. So something burnt up. Took starter out and tested it and it's perfect. I inspected all wiring nothing looks burnt maybe the relay? I took the fuse panel out and well although there is this weird thing on top of it that was always burnt, I think it may have gotten worse. Can anyone enlighten me on what it is? Also anything missing on my fuse panel that's important?










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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Doing some trouble shooting. The relay is clicking fine but something is vibrating when I turn key to on position. There is a short somehwere but why now? Out of nowhere when the day before dad cranked it I literally drove it around block a couple times and it was running perfect better than ever before. 


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

That looks sort of like a fried fuse holder -- IIRC some cars along the way had separate fuse holders above the fuse and relay panel for things like AC and Power Windows. It is hard to see from the pictures. 

I think that this is on the order of the ignition switch issue -- due to when/where the car was built. With the heavy red (power) wires I would think maybe AC and a 30 AMP fuse. FR


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

I'll try putting one in and see. But it always ran fine(well not perfect lol) without it since I bought it. 


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Figured it out, it was just a mess of a bad relay, weak battery. Got the relay and gave it a jump and she cranked right up. 


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## Mr.loops (May 27, 2010)

Jon316 said:


> Figured it out, it was just a mess of a bad relay, weak battery. Got the relay and gave it a jump and she cranked right up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


jon 


Nice work!

Which relay was it? The fuel pump?

Don't forget to address those burnt wires


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Well unfortunately yesterday had to move it and did not crank. My inlaw who is a mechanic for mostly older vdubs made a piggyback for me to run in between the solenoid wire as he says they don't put out enough juice to pop an old or weak solenoid to spin. Sounded promising. Tried that and didn't work. So switched the batter for another my dad had that was fully charged but smaller than one it has(it's starts a chevy 350 so should start this) and no luck, so tried jumping it and nothing, put the old battery back on and it cranked but only with a jump. How weird! Never had such a weird problem. And we'll the starter is "perfect" as the guys at the shop who tested it said. But then again solenoid could still be weak and the Vw just can't juice it enough. Anyone else heard of this case?


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## G_Lader_91 (Dec 28, 2006)

Just ran into this thread.

Congrats on the car, I love me some 8v's. Especially digifant 2. 

I would try directly jumping the starter, like with a screwdriver. Works great. Also,

http://www.a2resource.com/ and a Bentley should be your best friend. 

My advice, if you don't want to keep it all original? Delete all that is possible and avoid further electrical issues/spontaneous combustion. 

Clean all of the dried/dead leaves out of the engine bay/rain tray please! 

The fan can be simplified. A direct wire from batt/fused through the switch can be performed and works flawlessly. Screw all the extra wiring.

If the AC works, I vote keep it.

Serious, just get a long handle screwdriver and jump the starter directly from the battery post to the top prong. MAKE sure you have a good plastic handle with NO metal hanging out the back. I use a pry bar actually. Its how I check for spark by myself. Call me crazy. I have yet to get shocked. If that doesn't make it crank over fast then yes, it could very well be the solenoid. 

Also, how good are the wires attached and how good is the ground strap actually grounded. 

Wire for starter is red/black and alternator wire that is missing in the pic (pretty much gauge wire) is a blue wire. Ask me how many mk2's Ive owned :laugh:

Depending on your location, I reccomend a few parts suppliers. I too use ebay, but I have recently discovered FCPeuro and absolutely love them. Plus lifetime warranty on everything. Yep. 


Megasquirt would be a complete waste of money on a bone stock or even lightly modded 8v. Thats over 1k for an ecu and harness shipped.

Microsquirt would be perfect, and honestly WAY easier than trying to figure out someone elses mistake. You main expense is going to be paying a tuner. A microsquirt ecu/harness can be had for $350 or so. My entire setup in my corrado runs off 6 fuses. And two of those are for accesories.

Get the necessities fixed if they are broke (headlights, revers lights, turns etc) and then worry about the engine, just my .02. 

Keep us posted and best of luck!


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## FCP Euro (Sep 4, 2008)

G_Lader_91 said:


> Just ran into this thread.
> 
> Congrats on the car, I love me some 8v's. Especially digifant 2.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the kind words. My name is Dave, I handle the Audi/VW portion of the online parts catalog for FCP.

Please feel free to send me a PM on here or email me directly with anything you need. Even if its something not listed on our site it's possible we may be able to get our hands on it.

Lifetime warranty on all the parts we sell.

[email protected]

Best Regards
Dave


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

You should have the battery from the car load tested. Lots of places will do that for free. I've had batteries go bad overnight. Sometimes electrical issues can be very frustrating.

However based on your posts I think that your starting issue is with the wiring. You previously posted that the starter itself has been checked. Check the wiring from the battery to the starter. Also check the ground wiring. Better yet replace both wiring segments with new. I've seen wires corroded to the point they won't transmit current with the corrosion internal to the plastic covering so it can't be seen. Continuity testing can be done with a multimeter or test light but a wire can have continuity and not transmit sufficient current. I also have used a jumper cable between the battery negative and engine to test the ground. If that doesn't produce results focus your attention on the positive feed from the battery. FR


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## Jon316 (Sep 17, 2014)

Had battery checked, good, ran the piggy back along with a second solenoid/relay and nothing still needs a jump. I'm gonna try to get a spare starter off of here and give that a shot. Started school again so time is very limited didn't want to buy a new one and get stuck not being able to return it. 

Also I've been coming across a theory in my head. My car is a California car, I had bought an ecu digi 2 and didn't work(figured that out afterwards sadly) BUT I have a wiring harness of another 90 gti 8v in way better shape than mine. Anyone know the significant difference in the two? If I ran the new harness can I technically run the non California Digi 2? Maybe that's part of all the issues too so much wiring issues on the current harness.


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