# SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO?



## DarkBlueGolf (Jul 16, 2003)

Would I notice any differnce with Stainless steal brake lines if I were to buy them an install??? My car has 20k miles its a gti 1.8t mk4. What do you guys think? How hard is the install?


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## audipanzerwagen (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (DarkBlueGolf)*

There 's been a great debate about the benefits of ss lines, some modders say they are great others say not at all. I guess it depends on who'd ops you are comfortable with. If you do go ahead and do this mod, better have the right wrenches and a heat gun. Those brake lines will not give up the ghost that easily.


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## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (DarkBlueGolf)*

No, you will not notice a difference. The SS braided lines have a teflon liner contains the pressure. So do the stock lines.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (bobqzzi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobqzzi* »_No, you will not notice a difference. The SS braided lines have a teflon liner contains the pressure. So do the stock lines.

Right. You will likely notice the same improvement from replacing old OEM lines with new OEM lines as you would with SS lines. The only advantage that SS lines give you is that they might last a little longer because they are more protected from the environment. Brake lines ought to be good for about 4 years or 2 full brake fluid flushes,


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (DarkBlueGolf)*

Do they make solid metal brake lines?


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (judoGTI)*

They need to flex!


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (DarkBlueGolf)*

New flex lines are more important than shiny flex lines. Most of the "improvement" people notice from replacing old rubber flex lines with braided stainless flex lines is actually the improvement from flushing and replacing the fluid. Also, old lines (either rubber or braided stainless) get somewhat elastic and newer lines (either rubber or braided stainless) will be stiffer and give a firmer pedal feel.


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## Mr Mini (Apr 14, 2001)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (Racer_X)*

I am probably doing a rear disc conv. this weekend, and was thinking of going with stainless lines.... but can't justify spending $200+ (cdn) for a set of SS, when the OEM rubber lines will work just fine (plus my mechanic pretty much gives me his cost!)


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## PhOO (May 23, 2000)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (Mr Mini)*

MKIV cars come with SS lines from the factory


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (PhOO)*

My lines were rubber.


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## PhOO (May 23, 2000)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (ROCKnRLR)*

when you peel off the outer layer they should be ss braided undeneath


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (PhOO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhOO* »_when you peel off the outer layer they should be ss braided undeneath

There is a steel braid inside the rubber lines. All "rubber" lines have either a steel or nylon braid inside to give them strength to handle the high pressures in the brake lines. 
If it's steel braiding, it's not stainless steel, and you shouldn't peel off the protective outer coating. The steel braiding will rust quickly if it's exposed to the elements.


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## g60inNE (Oct 12, 2003)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (Racer_X)*

i've found out on my past cars(not vws) that replacing the flex lines with either stock or ss braided ones the intitial feel is the same brand new car brake feel and the pedal is hard as a rock when you push down. my opinion(based on using both types on the same type of car at the same time) is that the ss braided lines keep that feeling better and longer than the stock lines. think of a ss braided line as a stock one with 1 or 2 extra layers of ss braidein on the outside to keep the line from expanding. they are good and the cost is justified as you prob would never replace them again for the time most people own their cars. this is jst my opinion though. oh the cars i used them on was an 87 firebird and a 90 trans am. i have the lines on my corrado that i currently own.


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## jtdunc (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (DarkBlueGolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DarkBlueGolf* »_Would I notice any differnce with Stainless steal brake lines if I were to buy them an install??? My car has 20k miles its a gti 1.8t mk4. What do you guys think? How hard is the install?

Three weeks ago another texer and myself installed some Autotech SS braided lines and some new pads and Super blue fluid on my 95 Jetta.
*And I certainly feel a much more firm pedal and more even braking.*
Due to less line flex in the ss braid lines.
You can buy lines for $70 a set for four from Evolution Sports.
Why waste your time with rubber hoses when you can upgrade to ss braided?


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## jtdunc (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (PhOO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhOO* »_MKIV cars come with SS lines from the factory

True


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (jtdunc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jtdunc* »_Three weeks ago another texer and myself installed some Autotech SS braided lines and some new pads and Super blue fluid on my 95 Jetta.
*And I certainly feel a much more firm pedal and more even braking.*
How old were the rubber lines? Were they the original lines from the factory? How long has it been since you flushed and changed the fluid? Did you install the same type pads as you took off? Or did you upgrade to a higher performance pad?
If you pulled 9 year old rubber hoses off, the improvement was due to new hoses, not due to stainless steel hoses. Actually, I'd bet that most of the improvement was due to fresh fluid. 
To determine how much improvement the stainless steel lines made, compare them to new rubber lines with fresh fluid and new pads. That's the only way to be fair in the comparison. 
In my experience, new rubber flex lines are 10 times better than old rubber flex lines (or old braided stainless flex lines). New braided stainless flex lines are about 11 times better than old flex lines.

_Quote, originally posted by *jtdunc* »_Due to less line flex in the ss braid lines.
So, why did you bother changing fluid and pads. Those changes didn't make any improvement?

_Quote, originally posted by *jtdunc* »_You can buy lines for $70 a set for four from Evolution Sports.
Why waste your time with rubber hoses when you can upgrade to ss braided?
Again, unless you've compared new rubber lines to new braided stainless lines, how do you know how much better braided stainless lines are compared to rubber lines. Any new flex line will be lots better than rubber flex lines that came from the factory in 1995.


_Modified by Racer_X at 2:52 PM 7-23-2004_


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## jtdunc (Dec 7, 2003)

Look new rubber hoses are running $40 and you can buyAutotech OEM fit SS braided lines for $70.
Isn't it worth $30 to go SS?
Not even an issue to me.
And I've installed both rubber and SS lines on cars and the SS are superior for feel and consistency.
nuff said!


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## JettaVT (Jul 27, 2004)

*Re: (jtdunc)*

How'd you end up getting the clips of the rear brake lines to replace them with the SS ones? What tool did you have to use to squeeze in that little gap?


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## jtdunc (Dec 7, 2003)

Flat head screwdriver - carefully pry off.


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## ewongkaizen (Apr 19, 2002)

*Re: (jtdunc)*

One reason I have for SS lines (esp on the 4Runner) is that they braid on the outside appears to be more critter resistant than the OEM rubber types....
Thats right - when parked at the trail head the critters chew on em for the road salt that coats em.... leaky brake lines = BAD...
I think the cooant hoses are too large for them to get their mouth around to munch...


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: (ewongkaizen)*

Stainless brake hoses are often not DOT approved because they have very poor wear characteristics. The stainless steel braid traps fine dust, sand, and grit which then abrades the teflon liner. Catastrophic failure is more likely with SS hoses. Non-DOT-approved stainless brake hoses are intended to be replaced frequently. 
Something to think about. Sure they feel better, but you should not expect longer life from them unless they are a DOT approved or the SS braid is coated.


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (billzcat1)*

ECS Tunning SS braided lines are covered in a vynil (or other clear material) tubing.


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## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (jtdunc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jtdunc* »_
True 

then why do they have ss kits? is it to replace oem ss lines? i do see ss lines in most areas, but isn't there some rubber lines closer to the caliper?


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## jtdunc (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: SS BRAKE LINES? YES OR NO? (traffic)*

Don't the MK4s come stock with SS braided brake lines.
Whether for feel or durability, they seem to be a logical upgrade.
And my Autotechs have a direct OEM fit - no difference- so there should be no more or less abrasion as contemplated by VW.
It's just a DD.
As to replacement, the vast majority of the cars out there replace every 10 or so years - if they keep the car that long.
I'll be into my Porsche Boxter by then


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## jtdunc (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: (billzcat1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billzcat1* »_Stainless brake hoses are often not DOT approved because they have very poor wear characteristics. 

What brands are not DOT approved?
People are using Autotech, EBC Tuning and BF Goodrich around here.


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## jtdunc (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: (jtdunc)*

Just did some reserach.
DOT approval is needed for manufacturers to sell their cars from the factory or for brake lines in competitive auto racing events. The DOT exercises their authority.
Some of the brands like Autotech are designed for average consumer usage for DD like me. So none DOT approved is fine for daily driver cars.
If you're hitting the track or are concerned, then you must use the DOT-approved to race - so get the BF Goodrich or EBCs. But I don't think most of us will have the same cars in 8 years. My rubber lines on my minivan are 10 years old and feel and look fine. Some never get replaced.
But with the Autotechs, you can even use the factory rubber bushings to keep the hose suspended away from rubbing against any metal. 
And people have been running non-DOT approved ss braided hoses for years w/o event. Autotech lines have not had any of their customers coming back with "catastrophic" failures. And a lot of vendors carry their lines like Evolution Sports - don't think they would ever carry an inferior product.
BTW - DOT is not the only standard - the Europeans appear to have their own cert and E-codes and many HID lighting systems which are far superior to DOT approved dim headlights like our factory VW jetta headlights are also DOT approved.




_Modified by jtdunc at 10:31 AM 7-30-2004_


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: (jtdunc)*

Listen, I'm not saying that everyone who goes and buys X brand SS hoses will have hose failure, just that it is MORE likely than with a rubber hose. I would have no hesitation to use ECS hoses as they are vinyl coated. 
Some brands are even crafty enough to DOT approve half their brake line offerings. Take the case of Earl's hoses. Their "Hyperfirm" brake hoses are DOT-approved and comprised of the same components as their "speed-seal" line of hoses. Speed-seal? Not DOT approved.
[edit] I neglected to mention that the Hyperfirm hoses are also $40-60 more per set than the speed seal...
Also, abrasion doesn't just come from a poorly routed hose as some imply. If any of the SS hoses out there are rubbing anywhere, thats a cause for immediate concern. It's the fine gritty contaminants rubbing on the teflon liner that concerns me. 
Lastly, BF Goodrich doesn't make brake hoses. They make tires. Goodridge DOES make brake hoses. Easy mistake to make, but they are two different companies! 


_Modified by billzcat1 at 3:53 PM 7-30-2004_


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## jtdunc (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: (billzcat1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billzcat1* »_
Lastly, BF Goodrich doesn't make brake hoses. They make tires. Goodridge DOES make brake hoses. Easy mistake to make, but they are two different companies! 

You do know your stuff! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

yeah get them, why not, almost anything is better than stock!


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## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (Pifiu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pifiu* »_yeah get them, why not, almost anything is better than stock!

Uh, no, the stock ones are very high quaility


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: (jtdunc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jtdunc* »_Just did some reserach.
DOT approval is needed for manufacturers to sell their cars from the factory or for brake lines in competitive auto racing events. The DOT exercises their authority.
Some of the brands like Autotech are designed for average consumer usage for DD like me. So none DOT approved is fine for daily driver cars.
If you're hitting the track or are concerned, then you must use the DOT-approved to race - so get the BF Goodrich or EBCs. But I don't think most of us will have the same cars in 8 years. My rubber lines on my minivan are 10 years old and feel and look fine. Some never get replaced.
But with the Autotechs, you can even use the factory rubber bushings to keep the hose suspended away from rubbing against any metal. 
And people have been running non-DOT approved ss braided hoses for years w/o event. Autotech lines have not had any of their customers coming back with "catastrophic" failures. And a lot of vendors carry their lines like Evolution Sports - don't think they would ever carry an inferior product.
BTW - DOT is not the only standard - the Europeans appear to have their own cert and E-codes and many HID lighting systems which are far superior to DOT approved dim headlights like our factory VW jetta headlights are also DOT approved.
So much misinformation.
The USDOT has inspection and testing procedures for various safety related items. Brakes and lights are both important to the safety of your car. If you drive your car on public roads, you should use DOT approved brake parts. If you fail to maintain your car with DOT approved brake parts, and you have an accident, you could be found at fault as a result of your failure to maintain your vehicle in compliance with federal and state safety laws and regulations. Your insurance company also might not cover you if you fail to maintain your car with DOT approved brake parts. 
Brake lines that are not DOT approved are usually intended for off road use. They are for vehicles that will *never be driven on public roads*. Most race cars are in this category. Most race sanctioning bodies set up the rules to allow race cars to use almost any brake parts that the racer wants to use. DOT approved parts are not required for most racing cars. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Pifiu* »_yeah get them, why not, almost anything is better than stock!

I hope that was a sarcastic/humorous comment. The stock lines are usually excellent and more than adequate for most street driven applications. If you keep the flex lines replaced on a regular schedule (every 4 years or sooner), you'll have no problems with them and there will be little improvement in going to braided stainless lines compared to going to new rubber flex lines. 
The biggest advantage to the braided stainless lines is they are tougher and they will handle more abuse without cutting or coming apart. I run them on the race car because I might have to make a lap at fairly high speeds with a flat tire that's disintegrating and coming off the wheel rim, and braided stainless lines will take a lot more punishment from steel reinforced tire pieces beating on them than rubber lines. For most folks, that shouldn't be an issue for a street driven car.


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## jtdunc (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: (Racer_X)*

Perhaps you're right on some points.
But several of the tex sponsors sell these ss lines - with neary a problem.
But as a corporate attorney you're in my camp now when you talk about insurance and lawsuits. It's all based on fault - who caused an accident. So DOT or not, it's irrelevant. I deal with insurance companies every work day.
Also the DOT is just like other large federal government agencies. They like to promulgate rules which they "think" will make things safer. But most time, not necessary. 

Even the FAA has a lot of outdated rules regarding aircraft. Companies like Boeing are always to trying to bring these government agencies into the 21st century because when you pay the average government worker crappy pay, intelligence. real world experience, and technology escape them. 
Some of these agencies are still running Pentium 2's. So don't put too much faith in their rules. But the DOT does do a good job managing highway safety.
Nuff said.


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