# small engines ridiculous horsepower...........



## FNVR6T aka 2k1 vr6 (Nov 16, 2006)

went to a car show yesterday and seen a EVO with a dyno sheet on his car. not sure if this thing was BS but how the hell did he get 673whp and 500 something TQ. how the hell do these little cars do that. his engine bay didn't even look highly modified







i have a vr6t and having that much WHP would be nice


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (FNVR6T aka 2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FNVR6T aka 2k1 vr6* »_went to a car show yesterday and seen a EVO with a dyno sheet on his car. not sure if this thing was BS but how the hell did he get 673whp and 500 something TQ. how the hell do these little cars do that. his engine bay didn't even look highly modified







i have a vr6t and having that much WHP would be nice










The turbo spools at ~6k.


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## crazysccrmd (Mar 31, 2006)

i was at a dyno yesterday and saw an evo make 855whp on a dynojet. broke the dyno on its 3rd run too


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## uberrabbitguy (Jun 24, 2006)

*Re: (crazysccrmd)*

evo's are f****** crazy, i would kill to own a 800whp all wheel drive car http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

The turbo spools at ~6k. 

eh, no, those guys spool 42r's before that.








Its called a tough bottom end and a sick head- and lots of cylinder pressure.


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (fast_a2_20v)*

Heh, let's not compare VR's to efficient engines.


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (formulavr6)*

its called a properly flowing head.
our 12v heads suck. PERIOD.


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## TURBOPHIL (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_its called a properly flowing head.
our 12v heads suck. PERIOD.

Well said http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif , not to mention most of those guys are running the 2.3 setup, although i prefer the 2.1 setup and rev the piss out of the engine.
The fastest vehicle I have ever driven was my friend evo 8 with a 35r, It made over 500whp and from the outside looked completely stock.


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## mk3aba20vt (Dec 28, 2006)

*Re: (crazysccrmd)*

I was at USP too when it hit 855 awd on the first run while spinning in 4th...







then the second run i was inside the showroom and it shook the building lol


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (mk3aba20vt)*

this is nothing new... back in the 80s BMW started out with a 90hp 1.5L, and by the end of the program they were making up to 1500hp out of it in the qualifying setup.
The point is if you got the money to throw into an engine you can make ridiculous amounts of power. The fact that you start off with a block that can handle ~400awhp in stock form and a cylinder head that flows around 300cfm stock is definitely a big plus


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## hpfreak (Jun 21, 2005)

We have an EVO locally here putting down 924whp and runs 9.6 @ 153mph in the 1/4 mile with a 2 liter!!
That EVO just put down 1009whp still on 2 liters!!


_Modified by hpfreak at 7:01 PM 9-2-2007_


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (FNVR6T aka 2k1 vr6)*

I hope ya all know that 700whp+ EVOS and S14 etc boost* ~40-45PSI.*
They do not make any power under 6k at all.
http://www.madtech.se/bilder/facts/129.jpg
just check dyno of one of the phatest 2litre engine out there on the http://www.madtech.se page.
855Hp


_Modified by [email protected] at 3:34 AM 8-27-2007_


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## BoostFactory (May 27, 2005)

Alky does wonders to aid spooling in these turbos, and i dont mean akly added, i mean straight.


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## Kudagra (Sep 13, 2005)

*Re: (hpfreak)*

How much do you think that car cost total.
I know a guy running a Busa easily making those times. Total of about $11K.
If you want into the nines the cheapest way is a Busa or a ZX14


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## FlyGTI84 (May 1, 2000)

*Re: (Kudagra)*

The guys down in Brazil have some pretty cool little engines, I found these in the 8v forum. Torque is in Nm


















_Modified by FlyGTI84 at 4:46 PM 8-27-2007_


_Modified by FlyGTI84 at 10:23 PM 8-27-2007_


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## maddfras (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: (crazysccrmd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazysccrmd* »_i was at a dyno yesterday and saw an evo make 855whp on a dynojet. broke the dyno on its 3rd run too

iwas there too that was crazy!!


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (FlyGTI84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FlyGTI84* »_The guys down in Brazil have some pretty cool little engines, I found these in the 8v forum. Torque is in Nm


















_Modified by FlyGTI84 at 4:46 PM 8-27-2007_

_Modified by FlyGTI84 at 10:23 PM 8-27-2007_


engage warp speed @4500 rpm going from 100hp to 700


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## uberrabbitguy (Jun 24, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

sick motor


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## ZX6R1033 (Oct 5, 2005)

*Re: (skillton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skillton* »_back in the 80s BMW started out with a 90hp 1.5L, and by the end of the program they were making up to 1500hp out of it in the qualifying setup.


You are fairly close, but slightly off in the details. I am impressed that Im not the only one who remembers this, though.
The BMW F1 project started in the late 80s. The engine was the 2.3l M3 engine, which produced 198 BHP. They modified the engine so it would withstand a 16,000 RPM redline, and fed it about 45psi of boost through an intercooler that was about 2.5 feet tall by 3 feet wide. 
The true dyno figures on that engine were not reviled until nearly 8 years later, since the dyno maxed out at 1400 hp... however... That engine had the dyno maxed before it reached 13000 rpm, with 3000 rpm to go. 
and all out of a well built 2.3l engine with a lot of boost and a very efficient intercooler.


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## dhutchvento (May 8, 2006)

*Re: (ZX6R1033)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZX6R1033* »_

You are fairly close, but slightly off in the details. I am impressed that Im not the only one who remembers this, though.
The BMW F1 project started in the late 80s. The engine was the 2.3l M3 engine, which produced 198 BHP. They modified the engine so it would withstand a 16,000 RPM redline, and fed it about 45psi of boost through an intercooler that was about 2.5 feet tall by 3 feet wide. 
The true dyno figures on that engine were not reviled until nearly 8 years later, since the dyno maxed out at 1400 hp... however... That engine had the dyno maxed before it reached 13000 rpm, with 3000 rpm to go. 
and all out of a well built 2.3l engine with a lot of boost and a very efficient intercooler. 

hmmmmm....... the bmw s14 motor is a beauty........running factory itbs in the 80s E30 M3 chassis.........with a very high flowing head for its time.....club racers were making over 300+ NA whp in race versions of this motor back in the day.......years before the honda k-series i-vtec motor came out.....another small displacment motor capable of 300 whp when highly tuned........in NA form
now strap on a turbo to a bmw s14......can't imagine the chaos.....


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## ZX6R1033 (Oct 5, 2005)

lol no doubt. I've seen them doing upwards of 450whp... but the compression had to be dropped rather drastically, since the E30 M3 motors were high compression.
BMW has always been an innovator on head design though. Look at their modern cars. The throttle control is done with variable valve lift. They don't even have throttle bodies anymore.
Oh and while we are talking about sick engines... imagine a boosted version of the V12 BMW engine used in the Mclarean F1.


_Modified by ZX6R1033 at 1:43 PM 9-1-2007_


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## dhutchvento (May 8, 2006)

*Re: (ZX6R1033)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZX6R1033* »_lol no doubt. I've seen them doing upwards of 450whp... but the compression had to be dropped rather drastically, since the E30 M3 motors were high compression.
BMW has always been an innovator on head design though. Look at their modern cars. The throttle control is done with variable valve lift. They don't even have throttle bodies anymore.
Oh and while we are talking about sick engines... imagine a boosted version of the V12 BMW engine used in the Mclarean F1.

_Modified by ZX6R1033 at 1:43 PM 9-1-2007_

too bad vw motors don't flow that kind of cfm thru their heads....at bmw and others are capable of........but you can dump 15 grand into building a fast bimmer NA motor........like its a drop in a bucket.........I guess when I make more green someday I'll graduate to a BMW or Porsche to tinker with.....till then I'll mess with my homely veedub.....


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## Patrick Swayze (Dec 19, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

The turbo spools at ~6k. 

you must not get out much.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Patrick Swayze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Patrick Swayze* »_
you must not get out much.

Sorry, 5500.










_Modified by cabzilla at 8:39 PM 9-1-2007_


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## Patrick Swayze (Dec 19, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*

that car makes 400 at 4800? you're using very poor logic.


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## FNVR6T aka 2k1 vr6 (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_its called a properly flowing head.
our 12v heads suck. PERIOD.
so these 4cyl. cars have good flowing heads. with this type of horsepower, do they still have to lower their compression. what kind of HG do they use to handle 600+ whp? they must stack it


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Patrick Swayze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Patrick Swayze* »_that car makes 400 at 4800? you're using very poor logic. 


The poor logic is quoting that dyno in your sig. If you want an AMS evo dyno I can find one.


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## ZX6R1033 (Oct 5, 2005)

*Re: (dhutchvento)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dhutchvento* »_
too bad vw motors don't flow that kind of cfm thru their heads....at bmw and others are capable of........but you can dump 15 grand into building a fast bimmer NA motor........like its a drop in a bucket.........I guess when I make more green someday I'll graduate to a BMW or Porsche to tinker with.....till then I'll mess with my homely veedub.....


I had an E30 325IS. You would be surprised how little money it actually costs to buy and tune a Bimmer. Actually, I was heavily contemplating building another IS over doing a VRT Corrado. I like the looks of the Rados too much, though. We'll see what can be done with this one.
FYI, I had less than 2,000 under the hood of that Bimmer, and it dynod at 248whp N/A. They have an odd power curve, too. They come in to it like a forced induction car. nothing until 3K, then you cant peel your stomach off the back of the seat.


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## Patrick Swayze (Dec 19, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

The poor logic is quoting that dyno in your sig. If you want an AMS evo dyno I can find one. 

i can find you hundreds since they are minutes from me. 
they build cars everyday that would murder anything you've ever touched. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Patrick Swayze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Patrick Swayze* »_
i can find you hundreds since they are minutes from me. 
they build cars everyday that would murder anything you've ever touched. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

EVER


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (FlyGTI84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FlyGTI84* »_The guys down in Brazil have some pretty cool little engines, I found these in the 8v forum. Torque is in Nm
_Modified by FlyGTI84 at 10:23 PM 8-27-2007_

that's an 8v engine too. 1.8l


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_
EVER


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Patrick Swayze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Patrick Swayze* »_
i can find you hundreds since they are minutes from me. 
they build cars everyday that would murder anything you've ever touched. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Dunno, I've been around some 1100whp domestics, but you're making 410whp on 11psi and know everything.


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## tim 18t (Jan 24, 2005)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
Dunno, I've been around some 1100whp domestics, but you're making 410whp on 11psi and know everything.









please discontinue talking


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (tim 18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tim 18t* »_
please discontinue talking

Did I offend your boyfriend?


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## tim 18t (Jan 24, 2005)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
Dunno, I've been around some 1100whp domestics, but you're making 410whp on 11psi and know everything.









you posted a stupid point in a valid topic, you got owned 3 times you still keep talking.
i dont care what cars you've been around. i've been around top fuel car's. my company sponsered one, does that mean i had a single thing to do with it?
the fact is you've never built a car that can stand in the shadows of the ones you are knocking. plain and simple.


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## mavric (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*

bwahaha
funny stuff
oh no that a 800hp evo! thats soooo unheard of
wait till you get to drive a 0-340km/h (211) in 19.2 seconds with a screwed up tranny.....ultima GTR street legal lexus twin turbo v8 (what that doesn't count as small deplacement?!)
Only beat the vyron by almost a second 0-300
0-100-0mph in 9 seconds


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (mavric)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mavric* »_
Only beat the vyron by almost a second 0-300


Too bad it's not a street production car like the Veyron


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (tim 18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tim 18t* »_
you posted a stupid point in a valid topic, you got owned 3 times you still keep talking.
i dont care what cars you've been around. i've been around top fuel car's. my company sponsered one, does that mean i had a single thing to do with it?
the fact is you've never built a car that can stand in the shadows of the ones you are knocking. plain and simple. 



I'm going to propose a reading comprehension test for signing up here.


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lil red roket* »_
Too bad it's not a street production car like the Veyron









Problem is that they sell it like kit car and the company need to build X amount with same setup othewise its custom.








I know the 3 ultima cars his talking about .
They were built localy to me and his friend bought the silver one .
here is the red one 
http://www.zatzy.com/showthread.php?t=246275


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

I'm going to propose a reading comprehension test for signing up here. 

Or maybe there should be an aptitude test for people such as yourself. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*

Who cares if a big turbo 2 liter evo doesn't spool until 5k, it spins to 10k, thats a 5k power band








And if you dig race, the solution is called anti-lag, and you have a car capable of making the move on anything on the street.
[email protected] down in florida has a t67 2 liter evo cleaning up the streets . He made the move on and beat best of three digs against a 402 glide braked 300 shot Formy. Heh. Bring on the hate, I'm a fanboy of epic proportions


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (blueG60rado)*

Or Jonus 1300Hp Audi 5cyl cleaning up Norris 900hp+ Evos







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd5_XgHpSQE


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## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Or Jonus 1300Hp Audi 5cyl cleaning up Norris 900hp+ Evos







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd5_XgHpSQE

I'm not internet bench racing anybody, I'm just saying people who discount high powered dsm/Evo/hondas because of 'late spool' are either jealous or stupid.


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (blueG60rado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_
I'm not internet bench racing anybody, I'm just saying people who discount high powered dsm/Evo/hondas because of 'late spool' are either jealous or stupid.


But its hard to drive and Norris evo often bogg at start








One nasty side affact of big turbo on small engine


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... ([email protected])*

Here is good example of 800hp+ 2 litre engine
Biiiiiiiiiiig turbo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r60Vkgd9YTg


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## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... ([email protected])*

Yeah iirc the norris evo uses a 1.28 hotside on their 4202... which is not a turbo I would use in a street car, which was kind of the context of this entire discussion. I mean that Audi must be a mid 8 second car right? If he is consistently beating up on a properly set up 42r Evo.


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## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
Dunno, I've been around some 1100whp domestics, but you're making 410whp on 11psi and know everything.









wow 1100 V8 power. Thats insane.. Now come back when it is 1100whp 4 cylinder








tim 18t and patric are the same person im pretty sure. He has like 50 names. 48 of them are banned


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_
wow 1100 V8 power. Thats insane.. Now come back when it is 1100whp 4 cylinder








tim 18t and patric are the same person im pretty sure. He has like 50 names. 48 of them are banned


Not much of a surprise, since he believes he has a 11psi 400whp hr.


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## tim 18t (Jan 24, 2005)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

Not much of a surprise, since he believes he has a 11psi 400whp hr. 

when did i defend anything? i presented the evidence i was given, if you dont like it thats too bad. 
assuming we ever meet id be happy to race your too big turdo'd cabrio and put car lengths on you before you even got going. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (tim 18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tim 18t* »_
when did i defend anything? i presented the evidence i was given, if you dont like it thats too bad. 
assuming we ever meet id be happy to race your too big turdo'd cabrio and put car lengths on you before you even got going. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

No less than 5 people with far more experience with you dismantled your ********* dyno yet you're still bleating on about it.


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## tim 18t (Jan 24, 2005)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
No less than 5 people with far more experience with you dismantled your ********* dyno yet you're still bleating on about it. 


what are you even saying, i told you we could race if you'd like, or you can race any of the other cars ive built that have much smaller turbo's than you do. then we'll talk about what i do or dont know.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (tim 18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tim 18t* »_

what are you even saying, i told you we could race if you'd like, or you can race any of the other cars ive built that have much smaller turbo's than you do. then we'll talk about what i do or dont know. 


Sigh... You have the *only* turbo vr *ever* built with a dyno that shape. Let that sink in, if it can.


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## tim 18t (Jan 24, 2005)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
Sigh... You have the *only* turbo vr *ever* built with a dyno that shape. Let that sink in, if it can. 

again.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (tim 18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tim 18t* »_
again.


Proof, kids, that extra chromosomes are bad.


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## tim 18t (Jan 24, 2005)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

Proof, kids, that extra chromosomes are bad. 

again.


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## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (tim 18t)*

im starting to think this is the most worthless forum ever.
No trap speeds or dyno graphs, just bickering and claims of 'when they break traction' hahahahhaha
if anyone in ohio wants a 40 roll w/ an R6 im game, last weekend I put buslengths on a 423 whp 35r 1.8T red GTI. And dont say im stupid for calling out w/ a bike, its all i got, and summer is almost over.


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

Proof, kids, that extra chromosomes are bad. 

So what exactly do you bring to the table, because obviously knowledge isn't it. Or are you just proof to the kids that too much time on the internet can make you stupid full of useless knowledge of everyone elses accomplishments and yet have nothing to show for your own feats. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif You're a turd!


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (blueG60rado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_im starting to think this is the most worthless forum ever.
And dont say im stupid for calling out w/ a bike, its all i got, and summer is almost over.

Hmmmm, apples vs. oranges, and it's apples for the win!!!! Yay the crowed goes......home, because that was the gayest argument in this whole thread.
Congrats your bike is faster then a car, wooooo roll out on four wheels and I'll make the trek down. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lil red roket* »_
So what exactly do you bring to the table, because obviously knowledge isn't it. Or are you just proof to the kids that too much time on the internet can make you stupid full of useless knowledge of everyone elses accomplishments and yet have nothing to show for your own feats. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif You're a turd!










Just trying to keep the BS to a minimum.


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

Just trying to keep the BS to a minimum. 

How? By fighting it with bigger BS?!?!








This started off simple, itty bitty motors can and do make really big numbers. FACT


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## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lil red roket* »_
Hmmmm, apples vs. oranges, and it's apples for the win!!!! Yay the crowed goes......home, because that was the gayest argument in this whole thread.
Congrats your bike is faster then a car, wooooo roll out on four wheels and I'll make the trek down. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I was beat by a fwd 2g talon sporting a precision sc61, an aem and slicks. He beat my buddies F4I even worse. these were from 40,50, and 60 rolls. 600cc bikes are not that crazy fast.
Don't be sad that your Volkswagen sucks balls.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lil red roket* »_
How? By fighting it with bigger BS?!?!








This started off simple, itty bitty motors can and do make really big numbers. FACT

Where did I dispute this?


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (blueG60rado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_
I was beat by a fwd 2g talon sporting a precision sc61, an aem and slicks. He beat my buddies F4I even worse. these were from 40,50, and 60 rolls. 600cc bikes are not that crazy fast.
Don't be sad that your Volkswagen sucks balls.









Yeah it sucks you're right, you know all you are now crowned king supreme. So tell me a couple things, was the GTi on a tire? If not then again, not comparable to the world renowned talon that whooped your ass. Got video? No, then I call bullsh:t. Or and why do you choose a bike, oh that's right because it is the cheap easy way to go fast, no brains or money involved.


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## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*

You are doing damn good if you can trap 120-125 on a stock R6. Common knowledge.
Now look and see what properly built DSM's are trapping. 130+ is very common on 35r side turbos and larger.
Yes it is completely unbelievable that a higher trapping car beat a bike in roll race








I am also a very good roll race w/ a local 300zx twin gt28rs making about 500 on pump. Oh that's right, bikes aren't aloud to play b/c they are super ungodly fast.


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## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (blueG60rado)*

the gti was not on tire, but im pretty sure it would be irrelevant as we went from a 60 and a 70.


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (blueG60rado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_You are doing damn good if you can trap 120-125 on a stock R6. Common knowledge.


Okay and I trapped at 115mph with 2.6 sec 60ft on 12lbs of boost. 
So if your theory is correct I should be more then a good match for you since I now run 25lbs of boost and have rubber. 
And I never said that bikes were ungodly fast I just said that you choose bikes because it is a cheap, easy, no brains way of going fast. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (blueG60rado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_the gti was not on tire, but im pretty sure it would be irrelevant as we went from a 60 and a 70.

So what you're saying is one guy knew how to drive and the other didn't, good observation. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
Where did I dispute this?



_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
Sorry, 5500.










Show me on that dyno how the turbo is spooling at 5500-6k as you originally stated.


----------



## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*

No I'm saying the DSM was faar superior to the Volkswagen.
The 35r on that car was not even in its efficiency range. He couldve made the same power w/ a 3076. 
Can you spin a 1.8t or any VW to 9500+ ? That would be my point. And from what I hear Shanton drives a hell of a car...


----------



## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lil red roket* »_
Okay and I trapped at 115mph with 2.6 sec 60ft on 12lbs of boost. 
So if your theory is correct I should be more then a good match for you since I now run 25lbs of boost and have rubber. 
And I never said that bikes were ungodly fast I just said that you choose bikes because it is a cheap, easy, no brains way of going fast. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

So that means you want to run? I got some cash burning a hole in my pocket.


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (blueG60rado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_No I'm saying the DSM was faar superior to the Volkswagen.
The 35r on that car was not even in its efficiency range. He couldve made the same power w/ a 3076. 
Can you spin a 1.8t or any VW to 9500+ ? That would be my point. And from what I hear Shanton drives a hell of a car...
 
Hell yeah you could spin a VR close to that if built properly. RPM don't make power, Who's to say that the 35r was the proper choice for the 1.8t anyway? Tell me that you actually know that there aren't full interior 1.8t's trapping in the 120+ range at 11.5 so I can think even higher of you.


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (blueG60rado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_
So that means you want to run? I got some cash burning a hole in my pocket.









If you have so much of it and you get way better gas mileage, and have a very inconspicuous vehicle I'm just outside toledo.


----------



## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lil red roket* »_ 
Hell yeah you could spin a VR close to that if built properly. RPM don't make power, Who's to say that the 35r was the proper choice for the 1.8t anyway? Tell me that you actually know that there aren't full interior 1.8t's trapping in the 120+ range at 11.5 so I can think even higher of you.










Actually rpm does win roll races. That's why all the serious DSM's are 2 liter.
You should come to Quaker Steak n Lube north side of columbus this friday night. I guarantee you will be able to get some runs off.
So now there are plenty of dubs running around trapping 120s, yet initially you insinuated I was stupid for wanting to run a car.







I'm confused.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*

It's not "on" until over 5k. Maybe this illustrates my point better:








or this








or this


----------



## tim 18t (Jan 24, 2005)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*

that car is making more than yours ever will at 4500 rpms? 
are you seriously mentally challenged?


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (tim 18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tim 18t* »_that car is making more than yours ever will at 4500 rpms? 
are you seriously mentally challenged?


Never commented on if they were fast or not. Just when they spooled. Again, reading comprehension is king.


----------



## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*

Hi, just something to lighten up the mood:
http://www.*******.com/car-vid...t.htm
Launch anyone. Lag? yeah, no.








That is all.


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (blueG60rado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_
Actually rpm does win roll races. That's why all the serious DSM's are 2 liter.


Actually RPM doesn't you could gear a car to do that. I'll spank honda'sall day long no matter dig or roll and they have PLENTY of RPM but no POWA! HP will make you fast great, but torque will get you to the line quicker. 


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_
So now there are plenty of dubs running around trapping 120s, yet initially you insinuated I was stupid for wanting to run a car.







I'm confused.


Tell me where in that last statement I said ANYTHING about running your bike.







You stated DSM's are far superior due to trap speeds, obviously your statement was that of a typical "know it all" that's why you again ride a bike and refuse to use any of your obvious infinite wisdom to actually builde a car.







Oh but you did make a Corrado low, congrats you did what people have been doing since before they even hit this side of the pond. Cheers to your inovative spirit.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lil red roket* »_
. I'll spank honda'sall day long no matter dig or roll and they have PLENTY of RPM but no POWA! HP will make you fast great, but torque will get you to the line quicker. 




Quoted for staggering ignorance.


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

Quoted for staggering ignorance. 

Do explain oh all knowing master of all that is automotive even though you can't read a dyno sheet but do know when to back peddle after being shown up. HAHAHA








Spools at 6k, no 5500, up no just after 5k (scrambles for more dyno sheets that fit said numbers instead of pointing out on the ORIGINAL sheet that the statement came from.)


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*

Oh, you must be confused with the fast/quick talk, it's easy for people that don't understand to get confused. 
You see quick is time. Fast is mph. 
Now that you're that far this is where it gets real tricky for you guys. 
HP=MPH TQ=ET 
TADA!
Put a car on the stripe with 1000hp and only 600lb/ft of tq it will not be equal to that of a car with 1000hp and 950lb/tq. 


_Modified by Lil red roket at 5:53 PM 9-2-2007_


----------



## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

Quoted for staggering ignorance. 


X2


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (blueG60rado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_

X2

It's good that technical discussions can weed out the idiots REAL quick.


----------



## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*

You just claimed your VW is superior to the 4G63 and Hondas.
Apparently b/c you have more torque and quicker spool, neither of which you can put down for **** anyway.
Which one of us is credible again?


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (blueG60rado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_You just claimed your VW is superior to the 4G63 and Hondas.
Apparently b/c you have more torque and quicker spool, neither of which you can put down for **** anyway.
Which one of us is credible again? 

I never said anything about 4G63's 
And my **** don't spool until 4500 RPM with the .96 hotside T04 that a honda wish it could spool. I was squashing your claim that RPM is the holy grail for making cars faster then all other cars. And on that note, you NEED to understand that there are MANY different ways of making power then just a turbo, turbo's only get you so far. You're probably one of those people that think 25psi is just 25psi no matter what turbo it comes from. 


_Modified by Lil red roket at 6:17 PM 9-2-2007_


----------



## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*

And you are probably one of those people who doesn't understand the concept of pressure ratio.
Again Hondas are a better platform to make power w/, and your lack of openmindedness is the only thing I am arguing with.
I am done here.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lil red roket* »_
I never said anything about 4G63's 
And my **** don't spool until 4500 RPM with the .96 hotside T04 that a honda wish it could spool. I was squashing your claim that RPM is the holy grail for making cars faster then all other cars. And on that note, you NEED to understand that there are MANY different ways of making power then just a turbo, turbo's only get you so far. You're probably one of those people that think 25psi is just 25psi no matter what turbo it comes from. 

_Modified by Lil red roket at 6:17 PM 9-2-2007_


Wow. Nobody gives a rat's ass about your .96 t4. The drag Hondas are running 42rs in ARs that would blow your mind. You're an idiot, as others have stated, and I am done as well.


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (blueG60rado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_And you are probably one of those people who doesn't understand the concept of pressure ratio.
Again Hondas are a better platform to make power w/, and your lack of openmindedness is the only thing I am arguing with.
I am done here.










Oh yeah my lack of open mindedness, riiiiigght. All because I told you that you were an idiot for jumping right in and challenging people with a bike that you just bought? Congrats again on taking the easy way out and not doing something worth talking about to a car, have fun reading other peoples build ups and then acting as if you know. It's obvious of the quality of one of your builds by the turbo kit in which you're selling. LOL
















It only leaks a "little"


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

Wow. Nobody gives a rat's ass about your .96 t4. The drag Hondas are running 42rs in ARs that would blow your mind. You're an idiot, as others have stated, and I am done as well. 

O really, street cars with how much work? You guys must not get the point that you can take just about any motor these days and make 600-1000 hp out of it no matter what brand, the question is how much money will it take, so this argument can go on forever and NO ONE will ever be right by saying one manufacturer is "superior" to another, it's the people that make those engines do that, that are the superior ones and it's obvious neither of you have anything to bring to the table except "I've been around plenty of 1,100HP cars" congrats you've been to the NHRA nationals now show me one of those that's yours and you roll on a daily basis. I'll just sit here and hold my breath.










_Modified by Lil red roket at 7:39 PM 9-2-2007_


----------



## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*

I bought that kit from a guy in Montana two days before my car got totalled.
I got a check from State Farm and was bored so I went and bought a bike.
Anything else you would like to know.
BTW, you are taking this way too far.


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (blueG60rado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_15-20K miles on this setup and it runs awesome! 


How do you know then?


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_
BTW, you are taking this way too far.

No it was taken, and I am just along for the ride.











_Modified by Lil red roket at 6:59 AM 9-3-2007_


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*

(7:44 PM 9-2-2007) blueG60rado: I do find it funny how you valiantly defend vw's when 90% of the people on this very board admit they are inferior in just about every way.
(7:44 PM 9-2-2007) blueG60rado: except for corrados b/c they look so damn cool
(7:44 PM 9-2-2007) blueG60rado: other than that vw's are ****
(7:44 PM 9-2-2007) blueG60rado: yeah you heard me
(7:45 PM 9-2-2007) blueG60rado: no plug and play standalone, brittle ****ty transmissions
(7:45 PM 9-2-2007) blueG60rado: the list really does go on and on
(7:45 PM 9-2-2007) blueG60rado: what you dont like yappin your trap on im
(7:45 PM 9-2-2007) blueG60rado: cuz i do
(7:47 PM 9-2-2007) blueG60rado: And if you ever come to cbus, i want to run your pathetic ass for cash
(7:48 PM 9-2-2007) blueG60rado: unless your too big of a ***** to run a bike
(7:48 PM 9-2-2007) blueG60rado: which im pretty sure you are
(7:49 PM 9-2-2007) blueG60rado: but i have run into a talon, a t67 integra, an evo, 300zx, and a gti who arent skurred
(7:49 PM 9-2-2007) blueG60rado: but make sure you bring some cash
(7:49 PM 9-2-2007) blueG60rado: bitch
All this sh:t talking in IM's and yet all you talk about are everybody elses cars. LOL BUILD SOMETHING OF YOUR OWN!!!!!










_Modified by Lil red roket at 6:18 AM 9-3-2007_


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

those dyno's are not very good examples. none of those cars are revving very high. Who cares if a Honda can't spool til 5k? It still has another 5k of powerband. Hell I probably can't even count the number of 700+ whp honda's we have here in Utah. Hell one guy just finished his car the other day and made 890 whp on 35 psi.


----------



## ACschnitzer23 (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: (DarkSideGTI)*


----------



## brew city (Aug 3, 2007)

wow


----------



## Dubmekanik (Apr 6, 2002)

*Re: (ACschnitzer23)*

All I can say is wow..


----------



## mk3aba20vt (Dec 28, 2006)

I want that oil pan!!! does it cost extra for the jb weld over having a bung welded on?


----------



## ZX6R1033 (Oct 5, 2005)

lol. 
I am not, by any means, picking sides in whatever the hell is going on here... but I will throw out a couple of facts. 
1) a modern stock 600cc supersport will be able to take a Stage V 300ZX TT any day. Stage V is ECU, Boost Controller, race/test pipes, catback, and intake. I know this for a fact because I used to own a stage V tt, and I still own my 2003 ZX636. 
2) TTs are not good cars to compare to much of anything. Even the 500hp Zs have a hard time breaking low 11s. I have seen a few 550-600hp cars break into high 10s, but it is rare. 
3) Stock Q/M time on my bike (2003 Ninja ZX6R) is 10.58. A Dynojet PCM and race pipe will put you into the low 10s. 9s are common for 1 liter bikes currently. The ZX-10R trapped mid 9s completely stock. Hyabusas are beasts that, when modified correctly, remain out of the reach of most cars at a very respectable 7-8 seconds. 
4) DSMs are known for running 10-11 seconds in full street trim. How they do it, I do not know, but I know many of them exist. 
5) not too long ago, there was an all-motor Honda that clocked 11.02 in the QM. For all I know, It has broken into the 10s since I read the article.
6) RPM is, in fact, a major player in HP gains. This is evident by so little as using a Turbo Calculator you can find on the net. Google it, I am too tired to find the link.
7) HP does not make a quick car, as previously stated. This is evident by the mass number of 800+ whp Supras which cannot break into the 10s. Many can, granted, but just simply owning an 800 hp car wont get you there.
8) I could very well be wrong on this, but didn't I read somewhere that the 4G63 engine found in Eclipse turbos (gs-t and gsx) was also the same engine (give or take a few tweeks) found in the EVO?
Last but far from least... Wouldn't discussions such as this one be far more fun and informative if the personal attacks were left out of it all?


----------



## Rado.16vT (May 25, 2005)

*Re: (ZX6R1033)*

a real bunch of ... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (ZX6R1033)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZX6R1033* »_
7) HP does not make a quick car, as previously stated. This is evident by the mass number of 800+ whp Supras which cannot break into the 10s. Many can, granted, but just simply owning an 800 hp car wont get you there.


This is exactly what I said, HP doesn't make a car quick it makes it fast. Torque makes a car quick. All the horspower in the world won't make you have a low ET if you can't get the car moving quickly, however it will directly effect your trap speed.










_Modified by Lil red roket at 6:33 AM 9-3-2007_


----------



## dhutchvento (May 8, 2006)

*Re: (Lil red roket)*

I hate to say it but nowadays the Honda and DSM forums are becoming less stupid to me.......and have actual discussion and interesting info........and more recently on here.......just alot of chit talkin......alot of people making claims and defending to the death the performance of vehicles they have never seen or driven.........and just defending what others (the sheep) may have said


----------



## ZX6R1033 (Oct 5, 2005)

*Re: (Lil red roket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lil red roket* »_
This is exactly what I said, HP doesn't make a car quick it makes it fast. Torque makes a car quick. 

_Modified by Lil red roket at 6:33 AM 9-3-2007_

Actually, that is a debate all in itself. I am of the firm belief that hp and torque are the same thing... different way of measuring. Even dynojets read torque and convert it to HP. 
That being said... I agree with you whole-heartedly that the main trick to building a fast car is the ability to set it in motion as fast as possible. All the top end in the world will do you no good if you don't have enough to get your car there to begin with. I guess it could all be summed up by saying "the ability for your car to come into its peak power as fast as possible." Hondas tend to do this more with weight reduction than anything. Lower weight to power ratio is a very good thing. Traction is another HUGE factor in this. But then again, everyone already knows that.


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## ZX6R1033 (Oct 5, 2005)

*Re: (dhutchvento)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dhutchvento* »_I hate to say it but nowadays the Honda and DSM forums are becoming less stupid to me.......and have actual discussion and interesting info........and more recently on here.......just alot of chit talkin......alot of people making claims and defending to the death the performance of vehicles they have never seen or driven.........and just defending what others (the sheep) may have said



You want to see arrogance at its finest... stop by 300zxclub.com. Sure, there is a lot of insults being thrown back and fourth here.. but over there, if you are not absolutely 100% in love with Zs and have not sworn off any other car... you are worthless trash. They are also very into the "you get what you pay for" bit... which works fine if you never do any of the work yourself, but most people know better than that by now. Its ridiculous. 
Honda forums have moved in the other direction, though. The cars are so cheap that the people you find who are tuning them... they would do anything to save a nickel. Most of their work has been custom fabricated on their back lawn. There is a vast difference in knowledge between those who own fast cars they had someone build and those who own fast cars they fabricated everything for themselves. Not a lot of people understand that. However.. like any other forum, it is still a mixed bag. There are those who are serious contenders and those who just barely got their license and still know nothing. Take everything with a grain of salt.


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## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_
eh, no, those guys spool 42r's before that.








Its called a tough bottom end and a sick head- and lots of cylinder pressure. 

no. buschers highly tuned 42r 8sec evo. 









_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Or Jonus 1300Hp Audi 5cyl cleaning up Norris 900hp+ Evos







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd5_XgHpSQE

i fail to see any audi eating up a norris evo in those vids. what i see is an evo having issues, and than walking the audi on the big end. 

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Here is good example of 800hp+ 2 litre engine
Biiiiiiiiiiig turbo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r60Vkgd9YTg

if my 800hp+ car only ran 123mph, i'd kill myself. 
198km/h=123mph.







123mph=800hp?????












_Modified by mirror at 7:36 PM 9-3-2007_


----------



## whiteriot (Nov 10, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (mirror)*

another thread that blows my mind...i just don't understand why i still come on here cause more often then not i get totaly let down by the bs, ignorance, anger and malice towards each other. i'm starting to see this trickle from the car specific forums into the tech forums which is pretty sad.







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## dhutchvento (May 8, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (whiteriot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whiteriot* »_another thread that blows my mind...i just don't understand why i still come on here cause more often then not i get totaly let down by the bs, ignorance, anger and malice towards each other. i'm starting to see this trickle from the car specific forums into the tech forums which is pretty sad.







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

well the only VAG site that doesnt seem too riddled with crap anymore is http://www.motorgeek.com, has alot of cool (mostly Audi) builds on it...... but im sure it will catch up with the others.......like the last guy said -- take everything like a grain of salt......or however you say it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ZX6R1033 (Oct 5, 2005)

exactly. Remember, white... people like you who know the lack of value found in personal attacks ARE the balance to those who have nothing to offer. People like you ARE the ones that everyone looks up to when they come here looking for serious answers. People like you ARE the future of these forums. You will outlive the trolls (people who come here only to start crap)... so in essence... it is very important for people like you to stick it out and try your best not to get involved. Those who need serious advice know who they can and cannot talk to by reading threads like this. Don't let it get you down. Its no different in real life. Just go to street night at the drag strip, and you will see what I mean.


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## ACschnitzer23 (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: (ZX6R1033)*

Honda engines truly are amazing pieces of engineering. BMW is the only other car company that engineers N/A engines to this degree. I know there are a lot of honda haters on here, and sure they don't have fat broad torque curves, but nobody can argue that Honda K series heads are probably the best flowing on the market period.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (dhutchvento)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_i fail to see any audi eating up a norris evo in those vids. what i see is an evo having issues, and than walking the audi on the big end. 

Does not change the fact that Jonas won all 3 runs Jay.Fastest the Norris car ever ran was a [email protected]'s Audi is a high 8s car.

_Quote, originally posted by *ACschnitzer23* »_Honda engines truly are amazing pieces of engineering. BMW is the only other car company that engineers N/A engines to this degree. *I know there are a lot of honda haters on here*, and sure they don't have fat broad torque curves, but nobody can argue that Honda K series heads are probably the best flowing on the market period. 

Because they dont understand or respect good engineering.The K20A motor is an engine to marvel at.

_Quote, originally posted by *dhutchvento* »_well the only VAG site that doesnt seem too riddled with crap anymore is http://www.motorgeek.com, has alot of cool (mostly Audi) builds on it...... *but im sure it will catch up with the others*

Not if I have anything to do about it....Motorgeek has to be the most "mature" VAG forum on the internet.


----------



## mavric (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Wizard-of-OD)*

wow this thread just cracks me up!
so much ignorance
honda heads = great engineering and make alot of power
and solution to giant ass turbo that doesnt spool till super late, smaller turbo to spool first, then switch to bigger tubo, problem solved


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (mavric)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mavric* »_
so much ignorance
honda heads = great engineering and make alot of power


Who said otherwise?

_Quote, originally posted by *mavric* »_
and solution to giant ass turbo that doesnt spool till super late, smaller turbo to spool first, then switch to bigger tubo, problem solved










That's actually way more work then you really need. Standalone that has anti lag should take care of that without all the extra b.s. and what about gearing the car to aid in getting the car outta the hole and into it's workable RPM range faster?


_Modified by Lil red roket at 3:48 AM 9-4-2007_


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## mavric (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*

Strange that ford now uses sequential turbos on their f350-super duty, i mean why would they do that? i guess its "more work" then just tuning their trucks correctly?
maybe its because anti-lag destory's turbos and if you dont have the money to be changing out burned up turbo's all the time...
no to mention the exhaust mani and dp, that doesn't take stress at all. A turbo normally is running at what, around 800 and anti-lag is known to cause a 25-30% temp increase, thats oh around 1100



_Modified by mavric at 12:30 PM 9-4-2007_


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Does not change the fact that Jonas won all 3 runs Jay.Fastest the Norris car ever ran was a [email protected]'s Audi is a high 8s car.


i don't see jonas beating the ND evo at all. 1st run, which looks like ND lifted and started peddeling down the track. the other 2 runs, it looks like the ND evo walks the audi.


----------



## dhutchvento (May 8, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
i don't see jonas beating the ND evo at all. 1st run, which looks like ND lifted and started peddeling down the track. the other 2 runs, it looks like the ND evo walks the audi.

that evo was all over the place on some of its launches......bit scary actually.....







impressive none the less......also impressive is a car that is more than a decade older then the evo.....and still can hang it out with the most successful awd platform........in recent rally history......


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (dhutchvento)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dhutchvento* »_
that evo was all over the place on some of its launches......bit scary actually.....







impressive none the less......also impressive is a car that is more than a decade older then the evo.....and still can hang it out with the most successful awd platform........in recent rally history......

i agree. something to keep in mind, ND has yet to bolt on slicks to it's evo, and is so close to running a 8sec 1/4.


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (mavric)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mavric* »_Strange that ford now uses sequential turbos on their f350-super duty, i mean why would they do that? i guess its "more work" then just tuning their trucks correctly?


Great and CAT has been using sequential turbo's for a whole hell of a lot longer, we're not talking about diesels here now are we? Diesels are a whole different ball game.









_Quote, originally posted by *mavric* »_
maybe its because anti-lag destory's turbos and if you dont have the money to be changing out burned up turbo's all the time...
no to mention the exhaust mani and dp, that doesn't take stress at all. A turbo normally is running at what, around 800 and anti-lag is known to cause a 25-30% temp increase, thats oh around 1100


800 deg. what at idle and cruising? Tell me it's at 800 under full load.


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
i agree. something to keep in mind, ND has yet to bolt on slicks to it's evo, and is so close to running a 8sec 1/4.









The Norris evo got beat 6 times on 2 different events.
All 3 runs on in the movie and all 3 races the yer before.
Its pure drag racing with both time card and first to goal.
Not like EDPS were we here in skandinavia just run on time card and can have 10sek reaction and still win.
The black car Jonus use is just a couple of weeks old.
The green audi 80 he also owns is also pretty fast


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## mavric (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (Lil red roket)*

800 deg. what at idle and cruising? Tell me it's at 800 under full load.







[/QUOTE]
no at idle, 1200-1300 under full load, and you'll get those same egt's with at IDLE with ALS on


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (mavric)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mavric* »_Strange that ford now uses sequential turbos on their f350-super duty, i mean why would they do that? i guess its "more work" then just tuning their trucks correctly?


apples to oranges buddy...


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (mavric)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_
apples to oranges buddy...

Thank you. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *mavric* »_no at idle, 1200-1300 under full load, and you'll get those same egt's with at IDLE with ALS on 

Exactly with it on, which would ONLY be when you need it you know like a "race only" file. So now explain to me how that is that much different then going out to the strip and beating on your car for the afternoon? It's not, you're beating on your car and causing EGT's to be 1000+ degrees either way.


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## vwhammer1 (Jul 27, 2004)

*Re: (ZX6R1033)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZX6R1033* »_You are fairly close, but slightly off in the details. I am impressed that Im not the only one who remembers this, though.
The BMW F1 project started in the late 80s. The engine was the 2.3l M3 engine, which produced 198 BHP. They modified the engine so it would withstand a 16,000 RPM redline, and fed it about 45psi of boost through an intercooler that was about 2.5 feet tall by 3 feet wide. 
The true dyno figures on that engine were not reviled until nearly 8 years later, since the dyno maxed out at 1400 hp... however... That engine had the dyno maxed before it reached 13000 rpm, with 3000 rpm to go. 
and all out of a well built 2.3l engine with a lot of boost and a very efficient intercooler. 

Actually Skillton is correct in this matter.
The rules for F1 during that era mandated that no turbocharged engine could displace more than 1.5 liters.
Perhaps they started with the 2.3 liter engine but in the end it was only 1.5
If you wanted to run NA you were allowed to go as high as 3 liters.
In the early 80s cars were running around 45 pounds of boost and reaching 750 Hp in race trim.
At their peak in the mid 80s, in qualifying trim, the cars were running nearly 80 pounds of boost














and puting down 1300 hp.








Generally though, in race trim, they would keep they boost back to a modest 50 pounds and run between 800 and 900 HP 
And they did all of this at a relatively low 11,500 RPM
One thing to consider though is that the Peak torque for these engines was almost always less than 400 ft-lb.
Most of the hype about these engines making 1500 hp was started by the drivers and team owners due to some of the engineering tests.
Could they reach 1500 Hp?
As a matter of fact yes but not with the limitations placed on them by F1 
It has been rumored that the engineers, while testing the engines, would regularly take them above and beyond their F1 specified limits and peg dynos at 1300Hp with plenty of RPM left.
How ever in 87 F1 started regulating boost levels and the types of fuel they could use and this put an end to the 1.5 liter turbo engines in F1

It doesn't look like much but here is the engine that did all of this


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: (ACschnitzer23)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ACschnitzer23* »_Honda engines truly are amazing pieces of engineering. BMW is the only other car company that engineers N/A engines to this degree. I know there are a lot of honda haters on here, and *sure they don't have fat broad torque curves*, but nobody can argue that Honda K series heads are probably the best flowing on the market period. 

No, they just have very short gear ratios instead








BMW isn't the only other car company to make a 100+ bhp/litre engine..... what about Porsche, Ferrari, lamborghini, etc and Audi are just about there with it's 4.2 V8. Even normally aspirated aviation and tank engines in the 1st and 2nd world wars had high flow heads, 4 valves per cylinder and twin plugs. What Honda have done is not new. It's just marketed and hyped up well.
What they've given us is a high revving motor, which makes it's power from revs rather than cylinder filling, using the same old recipe of low reciprocating and rotating mass, lightweight valvetrain, aggressive cam profiles and unrestricted flow. Well that's fine if you like that sort of thing, Motorbike and F1 engines have enjoyed the same characteristic for a very long time. 
What I can't go along with is this whole VR6 head flow is crap just because a Honda's isn't.
It's called built for purpose. The VR6 motor was an excercise in compact packaging, not outright performance, which was precisely Honda's aim from day one with the VTEC engines and sank a whole heap of cash into achieving it. The VR6 doesn't have crap flow, it just doesn't flow aswell as a VTEC head, but so what? Buy a VTEC if you're that impressed by it. Down my favourite country roads, demanding good torque out of 2nd gear turns, I'd rather be in a VR6 than rowing the gearbox of a Rhonda trying to find some torque..... but that's just my preference


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## ACschnitzer23 (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: (kevhayward)*

rowing gears is fun! 
torque is also fun. I have a VRT with a .58 turbine housing so I know all about 2nd gear torque, especially at 3000rpm









BMW has been building fantastic 100hp/liter engines for awhile. Without FSI technology. Sorry Audi. Not to say the 4.2l RS4/RS8 engine isn't amazing which it most certainly is, but BMW has a long history of excellent NA engines stretching back to the 70's and 80's such as the origional M3 and M5 motors with ITB's.


_Modified by ACschnitzer23 at 12:52 AM 9-8-2007_


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## mavric (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: (ACschnitzer23)*

not to mention wasnt the vr orginally going to be a diesle?!


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (FNVR6T aka 2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kevhayward* »_I'd rather be in a VR6 than rowing the gearbox of a Rhonda trying to find some torque








...I just spat the coffee over my screen.I can just picture it now.
3rd gear selection : "shizzer!! no torque there...flah"
2nd gear selection : " damn ...back to first?"

_Quote, originally posted by *mavric* »_not to mention wasnt the vr orginally going to be a diesle?!

Diesel and yes it was.There is actually a prototype VR6 Diesel engine but I am still waiting images of it


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## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: (hpfreak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hpfreak* »_We have an EVO locally here putting down 924whp and runs 9.6 @ 153mph in the 1/4 mile with a 2 liter!!
That EVO just put down 1009whp still on 2 liters!!

_Modified by hpfreak at 7:01 PM 9-2-2007_


thats IFARTED from the evom forums... i watch them destroy the rear end at Battle of the Imports.... that car was tuned by Lucas English.... and you didnt mention the fact it made 1009whp on E85


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## hpfreak (Jun 21, 2005)

*Re: (boosted b5)*

I know because the focus of the thread was on engine size and displacement. Fueling is a whole other story and thread.


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## Pinepig (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: (ZX6R1033)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZX6R1033* »_

You are fairly close, but slightly off in the details. I am impressed that Im not the only one who remembers this, though.
The BMW F1 project started in the late 80s. The engine was the 2.3l M3 engine, which produced 198 BHP. They modified the engine so it would withstand a 16,000 RPM redline, and fed it about 45psi of boost through an intercooler that was about 2.5 feet tall by 3 feet wide. 
The true dyno figures on that engine were not reviled until nearly 8 years later, since the dyno maxed out at 1400 hp... however... That engine had the dyno maxed before it reached 13000 rpm, with 3000 rpm to go. 
and all out of a well built 2.3l engine with a lot of boost and a very efficient intercooler. 

Your just a hair off the details too, the block was an m10 out of a newclass ( 1500, 1600, 1800 2000,2002) they used "seasoned" blocks with about 70k miles on them before they started in on the machine work, the head was not an s14 unit but one of it's own design , if you look at a picture of an F1 BMW motor of the era you will notice that the exhaust and intake are on the opposite sides from the S14 head. The S14 motor in the E30 M3 was based on what they learned from playing with small 4 banger 16valves since the mid 60s.


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

Yeah there was an "intent" by VW to make the VR6 a multipurpose engine (inc diesel) and if you look at how conveniently placed the throttle coolant hoses are and how much space there is down the back, you can almost imagine VW had a petrol / diesel VRT in mind too!!
The accountants soon nipped that in the bud.....aswell as the standard fitment of the variable intake!
What makes me laugh is the Vento (Jetta to you guys) Cup Challenge 2.8 race cars came with engines from VW with a guaranteed minimum of 220hp at the fly! But road car customers had to put up with a lot less......because of the sodding accountants.....so yeah, blame them for the head not flowing aswell as a Honda's! Honda obviously have accountants on the same side as the engineers!

_Modified by kevhayward at 9:03 AM 9-10-2007_


_Modified by kevhayward at 9:04 AM 9-10-2007_


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## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (kevhayward)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kevhayward* »_The accountants soon nipped that in the bud.....aswell as the standard fitment of the variable intake!


We have the variable intake, the barrel rattles around on them a lot and I've had to replace a few


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*

He's probably refering to the Schrick version for mkIII's not the lame crap that came on MkIV's. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (Lil red roket)*

MkV has them too on the 2.0 T


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mechsoldier* »_MkV has them too on the 2.0 T 

That's right and there is ALWAYS faults for them in ECM fault memory. 
And so did the Passat 2.8 V6 and the T-reg V6 & V8 and well a whole bunch of other VW's.


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## BoostFactory (May 27, 2005)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (mavric)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mavric* »_bwahaha
.....ultima GTR 

Funny you mentioned that, we had one come here to the street races and only got beat by a low 11sec dsm, cops closed the street down and watched them go at it


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: small engines ridiculous horsepower........... (BoostFactory)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BoostFactory* »_
Funny you mentioned that, we had one come here to the street races and only got beat by a low 11sec dsm, cops closed the street down and watched them go at it








damn even the cops had to see that one!!


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