# gt28 vs t3/4



## l3 onp (Jun 14, 2008)

I'm in the process of building a 1.8kr 16v turbo. Now I'm just wondering which turbo would be more suited to the engine. Pron and Cons
thanks


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## nimbusmk1 (Aug 12, 2003)

It really depends on which t3/t4 you are thinking about. I would go with a 50 trim t3/t4 over a gt28.


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## l3 onp (Jun 14, 2008)

what would the prons and cons?


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: gt28 vs t3/4 (l3 onp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l3 onp* »_I'm in the process of building a 1.8kr 16v turbo. Now I'm just wondering which turbo would be more suited to the engine. Pron and Cons

Both are families of turbos. All GT28 turbos are ball bearing, which is good. They come in a T25 turbine, which I don't like. You can get them with a T3 turbine with no gate, but it's optional.
T3/T4's are inexpensive and are available in a wide range of sizes / housings. 
What is your power goal? That is the only way you will be able to choose the right turbo.


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

wow agtronic that was the most ill informed reply ever, and is endemic of what is wrong with the turbo charging world today... just his power goal alone is not enough to determine a turbo setup... say his goal is 400, there are PLENTY of ways and turbos that can reach that goal. a beter question is, what is your hp goal? tq goal? where will this setup be driving (street/track) when do you want to hit boost? to you want 400hp with a punchy low end or 400hp with a nice mid to high end with room to breath. sorry agtronic dont mean to be mean or sound harsh, but there are more important questions to ask other then power goals


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

My question is a starting point for further discussion. Without knowing the power goal, it's difficult to suggest a turbo.


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

sorry for jumping on you, all too often is the case that the discussion degrades to a simple "well if you want 500hp get X turbo"


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## l3 onp (Jun 14, 2008)

Looking for around 280-300hp, with 240-60ftlb torque. boost to come in at around 3500rpm and carrying on till 7500rpm.
hope this helps


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

honestly its a toss up, boost for the gt28 is gonna come on sooner, but youll be able to hit your hp tq marks... one thing i dislike about the t3/t4 is it only comes in oil cooled.... no water cooling = the suck


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## l3 onp (Jun 14, 2008)

I'm planing to modify the turbo, 0.50 Ar, 360 bearings ported and polished internal turbine housing to aid the performance.
Just want to know if it was worth it, or is the GT28 a better turbo? Where would the boost come in on these turbos?


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

the gt28 will last you a hell of a lot longer.... no water cooling of a turbo means you MUST let the car cool down for at least 1-5 min after driving it...... if i had to choose and had the cash id go with a nice gt28 any day, some flow up to 480 hp


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## l3 onp (Jun 14, 2008)

ok, whats the draw backs of the GT28? remebering this is a standard GT28, not rs or 71.
the t3 will be the spec of a super 60


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (l3 onp)*

I like T series turbos mainly b/c they are alot cheaper and I can make as much power as I need to make w/ one. In a FWD I also don't mind the slower spool(think traction). As for longevity of a journal bearing non-water cooled T-series, setups constantly change, cars get sold, and I don't drive the car much.


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## The Green (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: (slc92)*

I have to check again, but if I'm not mistaken my t3/t4 has oil and water


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

nope.... but if you do find out it does, POINT ME IN THAT DIRECTION!!!


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

You can most definitely get a T3/T4 in the wet variety. My T3/T04B Super-S TRIM has water passages. You can also get them in dual ball bearings. But at that point, you're looking at the same price as a GT turbo.
There aren't too many ways to get 400 whp. You need a certain amount of boost, and the right compressor / turbine for the job. 
In the case of 300 whp, you have a few choices. GT2871R and T3/T04E 50 TRIM are popular, and easy to come by. They will all make the power, but I would opt for a T3 turbine because the T25 will hinder top end, especially on an 8V. You will need ~22-25 psi to make 300 whp on an 8V.
Hope that helps ...


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

he has a 16 v you artard... actually READ the post... oh and post a link to the so called t3/t3 50 trim with water passages


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

Seriously dude, could you relax? Do you really need to call people names in a post about turbos? 
Okay, so 16v will require less boost to make same power, but same turbo choices apply. 
I would personally just go T3/T04E 46 or 50 trim. It's an inexpensive turbo, with a good compressor, and reliable CHRA if you treat it right, and don't feed it excessive oil pressure.
As for the watercooled 50 trim :
http://www.atpturbo.com/Mercha...e=GTB


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## whiteriot (Nov 10, 2004)

*Re: (Agtronic)*

i run a T3/T4 60trim with a .63A/R hotside and i'll hit full boost (12-13psi right now) by around 35-3700rpm. Comes on nice and smooth and pulls pretty hard right now but i need to work on my tuning still.
I don't see what the big deal is with a journal bearing turbo, they're easy to maintain and easy to rebuild whereas if a ball bearing CHRA sh*ts the bed say good bye to a hefty chunk of change buying a new one or sending it off to be rebuilt by the manufacturor, also with that comes a much longer down time for your car.
I figure save yourself the money get a proper sized turbo, spend ~$80 on a turbo timer, and count the moneys you just saved doing this as opposed to a ball bearing unit.
2LTurbo calm down and quit being a moron, you don't got your sh*t straight and figure you know more than anyone here but that's obviously not the case. Next time you decide to attack someone like an ass get your facts straight, especially a guy with knowledge and fab skills like agtronic (look in the fabrication forum)


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## digiguy (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: (whiteriot)*

I agree with Whiteriot on all accounts. I've been driving my ABA with an old K24 (Oil only and journal) for 50 000 kms and it still works flawlessly. I have a turbo timer but only use it if I was bagging on the car right before I parked it. On another note 2L, dude you do need to go back and read some of your posts to see how quick you judge others on here and I don't think every Honda guy or DSM guy knows more about his engine than 1.8T guys, some do, some don't. We have a guy here in Edmonton with a 10 second VRT Rabbit whose been roasting those guys for years.


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

i was poking fun at him not reading it was a 16v.. and i am VERY VERY greatfull he posted that as i wanted this turbo but couldnt find it in water cooled version


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

like i said though... only the ball bearing comes in tht flavor..... show me the t3/t4 journal bearing in water cooled and ill be happy


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## whiteriot (Nov 10, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

agtronic has posted it up picture and all, that center section is oil lubricated/cooled along with water jackets.


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

that is a BALLBEARING turbo.... i would like to see a journal bearing turbo. god i wish people would READ the posts all the way through


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## l3 onp (Jun 14, 2008)

*Re: (whiteriot)*

I'm like the sound of your spec'd turbo. How power you running? 
I think I might be convinced into choosing the t3/t4 because of its flexiabilty, and power delivery. Then just run a turbo timer, to prolong the life of it.
The GT28 is a good turbo out of the box though.


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

personally i would never run a not water cooled turbo... but then again look where i live!







turbo killing capital of the world


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## whiteriot (Nov 10, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_that is a BALLBEARING turbo.... i would like to see a journal bearing turbo. god i wish people would READ the posts all the way through

here you go spaz, a small turbo but no less it's a journal bearing turbo with an oil lubricated/cooled CHRA with water jackets.
http://www.extremeturbosystems...=1392


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

spaz? thats not my point... read my post..... i want a t3/t4 hybrid not a small as t15..... my point is i have never seen a water cooled t3/t4 hybrid


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## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_spaz? thats not my point... read my post..... i want a t3/t4 hybrid not a small as t15..... my point is i have never seen a water cooled t3/t4 hybrid 

Does the person who started this thread care?! Get back in your box








Get a GT28 if you can, otherwise a T3/T4 with a .48 a/r is reasonable. I find the .63 a bit full on, but it has its place for bigger power setups. Mine has a little over 300hp at the crank and that's more than enough in a Mk1.
Edit: Bear in mind also the KR, as a 1.8, has less balls down low so a bigger, slower spooling turbo isn't the best idea.


_Modified by H8SV8S at 2:03 AM 9-20-2008_


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## l3 onp (Jun 14, 2008)

*Re: (H8SV8S)*

out of interest whats the spec of your engine?
looking at the flow rates they flow pretty similar, my t3/t4 is gonna be more like a super 60. 
would this make any difference you think?


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## whiteriot (Nov 10, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_spaz? thats not my point... read my post..... i want a t3/t4 hybrid not a small as t15..... my point is i have never seen a water cooled t3/t4 hybrid 

sorry misread that but it also appears that on turbonetics site you have the option of getting water jackets on their journal bearing T3/T4's but either way i know at some other point i've seen it as an option on websites. Like Agtronic said you can get them but by the time you spend the money you're only a few hundred dollars away from getting a ball-bearing CHRA.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (l3 onp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l3 onp* »_out of interest whats the spec of your engine?
looking at the flow rates they flow pretty similar, my t3/t4 is gonna be more like a super 60. 
would this make any difference you think?

The Super-60 is a straight T3 (not a T3/T4). Turbonetics liked to offer "super" versions of certain compressors. The Super-60 is a T3 60 trim, with a slightly larger compressor inducer (1.9" vs 1.83"). Power level and compressor maps were almost the same, with the Super being slightly better.
Don't confuse the T3 60 trim with a T3/T4 60 trim. T3 60 TRIM compressor is good for ~270-300 while the T04E 60 trim is good for ~450 ...
Check out this old Turbonetics table to familiarize yourself with the different T3 and T3/T4 combos. There are MANY. 
Compressor wheels : http://64.225.76.178/catalog/comp_wheels.html
Compressor maps : http://64.225.76.178/catalog/compmaps/fig1.html


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