# Keys, Key Blades, Immobilizers, and Remote Unlocking



## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Cold Weather issues!*

Looking out my window I see my Phaeton covered in Snow. Yes, friends its got about 1" of snow covering it. My question is regarding the keys.
I have two keys to the car. No valet key. 
Can I start the car with Key 1 and then lock it up so I can go inside and let the car defrost. Then use Key 2 to unlock the car and get back into it. It seems when I have the key in the Ignition that the passenger door stays unlocked. So I know that I have to program it to deal with that issue. 
Any advice.

Larry


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

The car will not lock if any key other than the valet key is left in the car. Part of the anti-lockout programing.
Sorry.
~PC


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

PC,
Thanks for the Quick reply. So I need to go buy the Valet Remote and have the dealer program it for me. Only choice.
Now I have to learn about residual heat operation. But I did read the thread last month on they topic and Michael defined the operation really well on that topic.
Thanks.
Larry


_Modified by Kcmover at 10:07 AM 12-7-2005_


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (Kcmover)*

PC,
I called my dealer in KC and they only knew about the plastic emergency key for about $55.00 and programing. They sent me a PDF diagram which I can't post but it shows the keys and door handles. anybody with a parts manual would see it.
Its listed Illustration 837-10 and update 658 issued on 7.12.2005



_Modified by Kcmover at 11:29 AM 12-7-2005_


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (Kcmover)*

Larry,
I just went out to the car to try two different scenarios. With the start/stop button, I started the car then got out and locked it manually with the key. All doors locked and engine running. I had to unlock it with the key, the KASSY didn't seem to work. Next I used both keys, one to start the car and the other to lock it, again manually. And again, all doors locked and engine running. I had to unlock with the key.
So you don't need the valet key to do what you want. http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif 
Regards,
Brent


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (W126C)*

Some interesting observations here.
Larry, do you have keyless access on your Phaeton? I think that will make quite a difference to the possible outcomes. As PC pointed out, you cannot leave a key inside a Phaeton that has keyless access and then lock the car. It doesn't matter if the key is in the ignition switch, in the glovebox, or if it has fallen down underneath the seat and you have no idea where it is - if a key is physically present inside the cabin or trunk of a Phaeton with keyless access, you ain't gonna be able to lock it up... at least, not electrically, anyway.
I wonder, though, if you could go out and start your Phaeton with the key in the ignition switch (assuming no start button), keyless access or no keyless access, and then lock the driver door using the blade of a second key in the driver door key-hole? In other words, you would be locking the car mechanically, not locking it electrically. I kind of suspect that the car would allow you to mechanically lock it up even if the engine was running and another key was left in the ignition switch. (This is, I think, what Brent is reporting works for him).
Another possible work-around (this is clunky) would be to physically release the single key from the ignition switch using the emergency key release feature (sort of like how you get a floppy disc out of a computer with a paper clip). However, not all Phaetons have this emergency key release from ignition switch feature - it is against the law in the USA to allow the driver to do that, and for that reason was not installed in Phaetons after VIN sequence number 12171, which is a late MY 2004 production date. VW technical bulletin 48-04-01 refers.
Michael


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Haven't tried this but if you take the battery out of 'key #2' which would now be your winter pre heat key and start the car with that key, would the car know that it is 'running'? If key #2 can't transmit, does it exist?
RB


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (Rowayton)*

You should be able to leave one key in the ignition (or start the car with the start button) and then lock the driver door from the outside manuall with the blade.
All electronic locking/unlocking aids are inoperational from the outside when the engine is running. However, one twist of the key clockwise in the driver door lock cylinder should lock all unlocked doors (providing the driver door is closed, of course). One twist counterclockwise should unlock the driver door. A second twist counterclockwise should unlock the rest of the doors.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

Problem solved. Everybodies solution was a working one. Thanks Brent, Chris, PC and Michael. 
It Seems that with my Key 1 in the Ignition with the car running that key 2 will lock the car and I can walk away from it. Strange how it didn't work a month ago but it does now. 
My car does not have the keyless feature on it. So I am dependant on the two remotes.
But it worked and you can bet as the temp is only 5 degrees today that I will be using it this way often.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Rowayton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rowayton* »_Haven't tried this but if you take the battery out of 'key #2' which would now be your winter pre heat key and start the car with that key, would the car know that it is 'running'? If key #2 can't transmit, does it exist?

Hi Ron:
I think you are mixing apples and oranges a bit, although considering the complexity of the keys and the vehicle security system, I can't really fault you for that.
There are three components to the key assembly: The key blade, a small transponder that is located very close to the key blade, and a large battery powered remote control device. The key fob will separate into two pieces fairly easily, the first piece containing the key blade and the transponder, and the second piece containing the remote control device, complete with push buttons, battery, and transmitter.
To enter the car without setting off the alarm (assuming the alarm has been activated) and to start the car, you only need the small part of the key fob assembly, which is the key blade and the transponder. You would need to stick the key blade into the driver door handle, then, stick the key blade into the ignition switch and twist it. You would not need any part of the radio transmitter that is contained in the remote control device. The ignition switch assembly polls the transponder that is included in the key blade portion to determine if the key is 'authorized' or not before allowing the engine to start. In fact, it is interesting to note that the ignition switch assembly does not even contain mechanical parts that pay any attention to the grooves cut in the key blade - you can operate the ignition switch with a Popsicle stick if you want. As long as the Popsicle stick has a transponder embedded in it, the car will start.
So, to sum up so far: The driver door lock cylinder operates in response to the grooves cut in the key blade (like an old fashioned lock), and the ignition switch and immobilizer responds to the transponder in the key blade assembly, without any mechanical security verification of any kind. This explains why you have to put the key blade into the ignition switch and turn on the ignition within 15 seconds of mechanically unlocking the driver door with the key blade, otherwise, the alarm will go off.
As to the remote locking and unlocking transmitter assembly which makes up the other portion of the key (and about 80% of the mass of the complete key fob): It is a totally different system, although it does pass information to the alarm and immobilizer system. If you unlock the car by pressing the button on the remote, the doors unlock, and the alarm/immobilizer system is then advised that the car has been unlocked by an authorized user. This is why there is no need to turn the ignition on within 15 seconds (to avoid the alarm sounding) when you unlock the car with the remote control. The process of actually starting the car - turning the ignition on - is the same as previously described. You then stick the key blade (or a Popsicle stick with the correct security chip, or transponder, attached) into the ignition switch and twist it, and if the security chip passes scrutiny when the ignition switch interrogates it, the car starts.
I'm not entirely sure how the system works when you use the keyless access and keyless start (start button) feature. I think that the car interrogates the security chip in the key blade for both door unlocking and ignition/start control, but I am not sure. I also think that the whole process of unlocking and starting Phaetons with keyless access and keyless start could be accomplished if the remote control device was physically removed from the key blade and chip device, but again, I am not 100% certain of this.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Kcmover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_But it worked and you can bet as the temp is only 5 degrees today that I will be using it this way often.

Great to hear that! I was getting worried we would have to start researching a Standheizungen retrofit!
Michael


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

After reading the link, It seems you have already done the research needed on the standheizungen retro fit.








Michael if you were being put thru a deposition your answer would always be: ASKED AND ANSWERED ALREADY!


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks again Michael,
Would love to program a popsicle stick as an extra key but my Phaeton is a 'no eating zone'. It seems to me that it would be very tough, if not impossible, to install a remote start in this car. Not a feature I really need but a gadget is a gadget and one can never have too many gadgets. I'll go back to the car and see if I can find a function that will stump you








RB


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (Rowayton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rowayton* »_It seems to me that it would be very tough, if not impossible, to install a remote start in this car. 

*NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!! Oxi. Nyet. Nie. Non. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif *


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## iluvmcr (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael,
I ran my key through the washer and then the dryer. It seemed to be completely destroyed from an electrical standpoint. I took the battery out in hopes of drying it out and used the key without the battery. I do not have keyless access. The car started OK. Doesn't the transponder use the battery in the key fob? If so, why did the car start?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (iluvmcr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iluvmcr* »_ Doesn't the transponder use the battery in the key fob? 

Hi Robert:
The transponder that is interrogated by the immobilizer (anti-theft system) does not use the battery in the key fob - in fact, it has nothing to do with the transmitter in the key fob that is used to lock and unlock the doors when you push the buttons on the key fob.
I'm not 100% sure about the key construction, but, I am about 99% sure that it works like this: The complete key unit can be separated into two different parts. One part will consist of the key blade, which has the immobilizer chip (transponder) built into it. The other part will consist of the rubber-covered pushbuttons and the battery. The two different parts will perform their individual functions independently of each other - that is to say you can unlock and start the car using just the key blade portion (as you did), or, you can remotely lock and unlock the doors, or open the trunk, using the pushbutton and battery part of the key.
Below is a picture of a very small 'emergency key' that is supplied with Touaregs - I guess the idea is that you keep it in your wallet, or stuff it in your swimsuit after four wheel driving over the sand dunes - this key contains a key blade and a transponder (immobilizer chip), but no remote door locking or unlocking components.
As for the key that you washed - perhaps try leaving it standing on end in a dry place for a few days, and see if it comes back to life. You can take the key apart fairly easily - if you examine it closely, you will see a tiny notch on one side of it - just put a small slotted screwdriver in the tiny notch, and twist. The two halves should come apart, you can then take the battery out, and stand the push-button part up to dry for a few days. Maybe it will come back to life.
Michael
*Emergency Key for Touaregs* - the immobilizer chip is in the round part where the VW logo is.
Will also work in Phaetons, more info here: Tiny, wallet-sized key for Phaeton


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (iluvmcr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iluvmcr* »_Doesn't the transponder use the battery in the key fob?

I believe the transponder is a passive one that uses something similar to RfID technology.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (iluvmcr)*

Hi Robert:
Just a follow-up on the post I made earlier: The transponder (immobilizer chip) in the key is shown in the illustration below. The complete key assembly comes apart more or less where the two horizontal lines are at either side of the body of the assembly. If you turn the thing around in your hand and look, you should see a very tiny space that you can put a small slotted screwdriver in to pry the two halves apart. It is a friction fit.
The chip in the key blade is interrogated by an induction coil in the ignition switch assembly - this is what actually provides the authorization to start the car. The grooves that are cut into the metal key blade are only used by the lock cylinder on the driver door - not by the ignition switch, which as I mentioned before could be operated with a Popsicle stick, provided the Popsicle stick had an appropriate immobilizer chip attached to it.
The only thing that you might want to be aware of, if you are using the key blade portion only (while the section with the buttons and battery is drying out somewhere else) is that if you open the driver door with the key blade, you might need to get the key blade into the ignition switch and start the car within 15 seconds, otherwise, the anti-theft alarm might function. I'm not fully knowledgeable of how the anti-theft system operates concerning opening the door 'mechanically' (meaning, with the key blade only) rather than opening it in the conventional manner by use of either the remote control buttons or touching the door handle and activating the keyless entry system (if your car is so equipped).
I am also not sure of whether the keyless entry system will work if you only possess the key blade and transponder, as opposed to the complete assembly including the buttons and battery. Perhaps you could do a little investigation and let the rest of us know the answers to these questions:
*1)* If you open the driver door mechanically with the key blade, and do not start the car within 15 seconds, does the alarm sound?
*2)* If you have keyless access on your Phaeton, will the keyless access system allow you to open the door if you possess only the key blade and transponder chip, and do not have the buttons and battery portion of the key anywhere near the car?
Michael
*Illustration showing location of transponder (immobilizer chip) in key*


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## mkerr (Dec 12, 2005)

*Key fobs*

Hello all. I'm a long-term lurker, convinced about the car but waiting for the right deal on a used 04. Anyway, I'm curious about something that I didn't see listed in the FAQ page -- the keys.
I took a test drive on one possiblilty and noticed they only had a sngle key, and that it looked like there was a piece missing from it (there was a gap on the side where it looked like another piece would click in). I'm pretty sure this dealer got the car from an auction, and it was missing some other things too (ciglighter flashlight, Nav CDs) etc., so this isn't surprising, but I'm a bit concerned about the key fob issue. 
Is there a slide-out remote built into the key? How do the keys work? I know the car has various features that sense when you're in the car for example, but I'm not sure how it works. Can you get replacement keys and/or remotes if neccessary?


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

New Phaetons come with three keys: driver one, driver two and a valet key. These are standard VW keys and replacements for them, the flashlight and Nav CD can all be ordered throught the dealerships parts department.
~PC


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## iluvmcr (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
*1)* If you open the driver door mechanically with the key blade, and do not start the car within 15 seconds, does the alarm sound?
*2)* If you have keyless access on your Phaeton, will the keyless access system allow you to open the door if you possess only the key blade and transponder chip, and do not have the buttons and battery portion of the key anywhere near the car?

Thanks very much for the information. To answer your questions:
1) The alarm *definitely* goes off if you do not start within 15 seconds. I have gone to the car to get my cell phone, unlock with the key blade, lock it again without starting it, only to find the alarm going off within 15 seconds. In fact, I must start my Phaeton every time I enter the car, even if it's unlocked when I enter it or the alarm will go off (probably the motion detector).
2) My key cannot be fixed. With nothing to loose, I took it apart and attached the key blade to pliers (to use as a handle) without the transponder chip. The car would not start. Then I placed the chip close to the blade and the car started.
What's interesting is that when you turn the key blade in the ignition switch without the transponder, you get the immobilizer warning and eventually the alarm. Without moving the key, I brought the transponder up to the key blade. The alarm stopped and the electronics came alive, then I turned the key blade and the car started. 
The transponder must be within 2 cm of the blade to work. The car won't start if the chip is at 5 cm from the blade - I measured 5 cm distance and the blade didn't work.
Also, with just the blade and transponder (no buttons or other electronics.), you get the warning: "key battery is empty."
The transponder is on the same circuit board as the buttons. I physically tore the transponder off the circuit board and it still works.
I think I need a new key!


_Modified by iluvmcr at 9:39 AM 12-22-2005_


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## iluvmcr (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Follow up post:
Once the vehicle is started (the vehicle accepts the transponder), you can remove the transponder from the blade and the vehicle remains started. Apparently the initial interrogation is all that is required from the transponder.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (iluvmcr)*

Hi Robert:
Thanks a lot for providing that very valuable information to all of us.
For your information - to help keep you key bill down to a minimum - all you need to buy is a replacement for the 'button and battery' part of the key. You just clip the new 'button and battery' part onto your existing 'blade and chip'. I think that the button and battery part is actually the less expensive of the two pieces - I do know that it is generic to all VW and Bentley products.
A very important tip for you: When the new 'button and battery' piece arrives at your VW dealer, you will need to bring *ALL *the car keys in to allow the Phaeton technician to adapt the new button and battery piece so that it will unlock your car. In other words, for any service action that involves new keys, adapting new keys, stuff like that, you must bring in the car and *every *key. Although this might at first glance sound cumbersome, it makes a lot of sense from a security point of view - it prevents someone from adapting a new key to a VW without the owner of all the other keys being immediately aware of it.
Michael


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## jmdpjd1 (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: Key fobs (mkerr)*

That key may have been the valet key only door lock and unlock buttons. Blank spot for the trunk.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Key fobs (mkerr)*

Here are some pictures of what the key fob looks like - perhaps this will help you identify what is missing. A Phaeton comes with three keys - two of them have three buttons on the side with the rubber covering (lock, unlock, and trunk release), and the third key - the valet key - looks exactly the same except it does not have a button to release the trunk lid.
Michael
*Normal Key*








*Other side of key*








*Cover removed from battery compartment*








*How to remove the key battery cover*
_NOTE: Phaeton and Touareg keys only! Other VW keys use a different procedure!_


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## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

That's interesting, as we in the UK do not get three keys we only get two, we do not get the emergency key that fits in the wallet.... By the way Michael everything working just great thanks again.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (pilgrim7777)*

Hi Terence:
North American Region (NAR) is the only place in the world where VW supplies three keys. The third key is actually a 'consolation prize' for not getting a rear foglight. VW of America asked Dresden to delete installation of the rear foglight from the Phaeton, in keeping with their practice of not providing rear foglights on any NAR VW product - this because drivers over here do not know what they are for, and tend to leave them on all the time.
Rather than leaving a blank space where the rear foglight button is, someone came up with the idea of using that button to disable opening of the trunk lid and glovebox under the following circumstances:
*1)* The button is pressed (activated) subsequent to the car being started with one of the two 'normal' keys, and;
*2)* The car is then driven using the third (valet) key, the one that does not have the trunk button on it.
This feature could, in theory, be easily enabled on a Rest of World (ROW) spec Phaeton simply by changing the country code in the central electrical controller, but if this was done on your car, you would suffer two unwanted consequences - first, your car would have Daytime Running Lights (DRL) conforming to the NAR specification, which is headlamps only, and second, you would lose the ability to turn your rear foglight on.
You might have also noticed that ROW Volkswagen keys do not have the little red 'panic button' on the side of them - that is a feature unique to the NAR market. When pressed, the car theft alarm goes off and all the parking lights begin flashing. It is a major PITA for NAR Phaetons that have had a start button refitted, because about once every 2 months, a coin will press up against the red button whilst the key is in the driver's pocket and set off the alarm. That's lots of fun when it happens just as you are negotiating a busy intersection.
Phaetons are not supplied with the tiny key in any market of the world. That tiny key is actually a Touareg part, but Phaeton owners can order one if they wish (about USD $100) because the Phaeton and Touareg share the same controller for access and start authorization.
Michael

*Comparison of Normal Phaeton Key and Valet Key*


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## iluvmcr (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: (iluvmcr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iluvmcr* »_ The alarm *definitely* goes off if you do not start within 15 seconds. I have gone to the car to get my cell phone, unlock with the key blade, lock it again without starting it, only to find the alarm going off within 15 seconds. In fact, I must start my Phaeton every time I enter the car, even if it's unlocked when I enter it or the alarm will go off (probably the motion detector). _Modified by iluvmcr at 9:39 AM 12-22-2005_

*CORRECTION*
If you unlock your Phaeton with just the key blade in the door handle (do not use the buttons), you must put the key blade in the ignition switch within 15 seconds or the alarm will sound. I said before that you must start the engine or the alarm will sound. You do not actually have to start the vehicle's engine to avoid the alarm.
When you put the key blade in the ignition switch, you bring the key's transponder up to the switch. That's what the car actually requires (if you didn't use key buttons to unlock the car).
I associated starting the engine with no alarm. Perhaps that's a trivial point but I dislike being inaccurate!


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## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: (iluvmcr)*

I think that I have the answer from the above string to a further question, but may I ask it here to be certain?
I would like to be able to hide a spare key (I will call it key3) on occasions externally on my Phaeton (which is standard form without keyless entry). I have purchased as key3 an additional standard key & remote for this purpose (not at the time knowing of the mini keys pictured above). I therefore need to ensure that the transponder in that key cannot be read by the car where/whilst it is hidden, otherwise I understand from the string above and 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2013331
that the hidden key could be disqualified - by being in 'reading' range - when I lock using my normal key (key1).
My wife also carries a key (key2) so that if for example we go shopping and split, whoever gets back first can get into the car, and we never have a problem, with her key2 even if she is very close when I lock it with key1. 
My VW garage advised that the transponder is only read very close to the ignition key hole. That concurs with the experiment above by iluvmcr on 9:29 AM 12-22-2005 where he said "The transponder must be within 2 cm of the blade to work. The car won't start if the chip is at 5 cm from the blade - I measured 5 cm distance and the blade didn't work". Earlier in the string however there is suggestion that the transponder range may be greater.
In summary, if key3 was temporarily hidden externally, say at the back of the car, is (i) the key's function or (ii) car's security impaired (other than, of course, if key3 is discovered by a third party!). Also if it is hidden as I describe, can it be (iii) 'detected' by a third party through its transponder or remote 'emissions'? If any answer to (i) -(iii) is yes, then would wrapping it in tin foil, or even thin lead, cure the problem?
PETER
_Modified by PeterMills at 10:38 AM 9-6-2006_


_Modified by PeterMills at 10:42 AM 9-6-2006_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PeterMills)*

Peter:
I'm going to have to do a bit of further research before I can reply to your question.
The problem is this: Phaetons built for the UK market are equipped with certain very, very tough security features that are specific to the UK market (something to do with 'Thatcham' industry standards). So, we have at least three different model variations to deal with and document:
*1)* NAR (North American Region) market
*2)* ROW (Rest of World) market
*3)* UK specific (Thatcham)
Michael


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## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael, id you have any further thoughts on this? Hope you don't mind me asking.
PETER MILLS


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PeterMills)*

Hi Peter:
Based on the investigation I have done, I think you could conceal a key on the exterior of your car without problems, because you don't have the keyless entry package. That means your car doesn't have a whole bunch of antennas in the door handles, bumpers, etc. that will always be looking for a key.
From a practical point of view, probably the best type of key to 'conceal' would be the tiny Touareg-type key pictured above, simply because it is so lightweight and would not require the same sturdy attachment as the rather heavy key fobs with the push-buttons in them. However, if you do elect to conceal a push-button key fob, take the battery out of it to ensure that the buttons will not function - this will prevent inadvertent locking or unlocking.
If you open the driver door using the key blade (on any Phaeton, with any type of key, with or without keyless access), you have 15 seconds to get that key blade into the ignition slot and turn the ignition on, otherwise, the alarm will activate.
Lastly - if you purchase an additional key (a tiny key), be aware that you have to bring the car plus every key you have to the dealership to have the new key adapted to the car.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_If you open the driver door using the key blade (on any Phaeton, with any type of key, with or without keyless access), you have 15 seconds to get that key blade into the ignition slot and turn the ignition on, otherwise, the alarm will activate.

I need to qualify that statement.
Phaetons shipped to NAR and to Continental Europe have the central comfort controller set to allow a 15 second delay between opening the driver door with the key blade and sounding the alarm. It is possible to configure the car to sound the alarm instantly if the driver door is opened with the key blade. So, if you are not sure about this, test it out as follows:
*1)* Lock the car using either the keyless access push button on the door handle (if so equipped) or the lock pushbutton on the remote control key fob.
*2)* Unlock the driver door using the key blade. Be careful to not touch the door handle as you do this if you have keyless access, otherwise, this will 'authorize' your entry.
*3)* Wait either 0 or 15 seconds, as applicable, and see what happens. You can then stop the alarm by either putting the key blade in the ignition, or, pushing the unlock button on the key fob.
If your car is configured to sound the alarm instantly when it is unlocked with the key blade, you can have your dealer set it to give you a 15 second grace period to get the key into the ignition. This is done by changing the value in adaptation channel 26 of the J393 Central Controller for the Comfort System (controller 46) from 'zero' (no delay, instant alarm) to 'one' (15 second grace period).
For those of you who might be wondering what all this is about - VW did not install a component in the driver door handle key slot that recognizes the immobilizer chip on the key. This is because no-one ever uses the key blade in the slot - we all either use keyless access or the remote key fob push-butttons. So, when you open the driver door with the key fob - as might be necessary if there is some malfunction in the radio transmissions from the key fob (like, a dead battery in the key fob), the car doesn't know that this is an 'authorized' entry. The key slot in the ignition switch does have a device that recognizes the immobilizer chip in the key - so, if the key fob battery is ever dead (non-keyless access cars) and you have to open the door with the key blade, now you know that you need to get the key into the ignition switch without undue delay in order to avoid the alarm sounding.
Michael


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## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thank you Michael. If you ever thought to set out a VW garage in Suffolk, England, you would have my custom just like that! Joking apart, on that subject I have made other post.
PETER MILLS


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PeterMills)*

Since this thread covers a lot of topics related to ignition keys, it makes sense to me to attach a TB about ignition keys here. The TB is number 48-04-01 and is entitled "Ignition/Starter Switch -E415- Deletion of Emergency Key Release Feature". It affects Phaetons and Touaregs.
This TB does not require any action of any kind, it is just an information document that advises VW technicians in North America that a basic feature of the Phaeton - the ability to release the ignition key from the ignition switch with the end of a paper clip - has been discontinued on NAR (North American Region) Phaetons because this feature is against the law in the USA.
The idea behind the emergency ignition key release is that if the batteries in your Phaeton become discharged and the key is in the ignition slot, you can stuff the end of a paper clip into a little hole that is hidden behind a rubber flap and release the key. This is a security feature - it means you don't have to leave the ignition key in a Phaeton that has discharged batteries.
However - there is a law in the USA that says ignition keys may only be removed if the engine is switched off, and FMVSS testers have determined that it is possible to release the ignition key with a paper clip while the engine is running, in other words, on a perfectly healthy Phaeton. That is against the law.
VW is not recalling cars to plug up the hole, but any new ignition switches that are shipped from the parts warehouse in North America will not have this release feature, and ignition switches in 2005 and 2006 NAR Phaetons will not have this release feature.
Anyway, enough of the explaining, below is a picture of the release hole (I have an older, 'scofflaw' ignition switch in my Phaeton), and below that is a copy of the TB.
Michael
*Ignition Switch Release Feature*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

*Archival Note:* Related discussion about ignition keys, key batteries, etc. - Tiny, wallet-sized key for Phaeton


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

And, here's another TB about the Ignition Key Emergency Release feature. This TB is for information only (no action required), it just reminds technicians to set the parking brake before using this release button to remove the ignition key. It is TB 94-04-03 "Ignition Key, Emergency Release Revision".
Michael


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I have a related question. My Phaeton came with two Valet keys but no master. I found this out when I had no way of popping the trunk other than the button on the driver's door. 
My wife bought a blank master Phaeton key online from a place that specializes in OEM keys. Before you write it off as junk, I received the key and inside and out (down to the writing on the circuit board under the battery cover), it's definitely a genuine VW part. The FCC ID is exactly the same- the only difference I can see is the part number underneath the word Siemens. On my valet key it ends in an F, the master key is exactly the same only it ends in a Q. I'm guessing this could either be the distinguishing difference between a master key and valet, or it could mean its a different model that won't work with my Phaeton.
I took this key to my local dealer who after an hour said he couldn't do it, though I question their abilities since they told me they didn't need all the keys for reprogramming and sure enough my other valet key is useless now. My question is before I go and waste another $50-$100 at a dealer trying to get this key to work, do you guys see any reason why it shouldn't? Is there anything I can do on my side to program this? I took the keyblade out of one of my valet keys so that's taken care of. Just need to code the RFID and remote functions.
I'd really REALLY like to open my trunk from outside the car. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Brian


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

Bump- any help on this guys? I'm dying here without a master key.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (zenmoused)*

Brian,
Assuming a competent dealer has the necessary equipment and the part is OEM (and functional), I don't see why it shouldn't work. Having said that, I've yet to see a dealer able to laser cut the keys with any acceptable degree of repeatability. Indeed, every key I've ever ordered for a customer whilst working at a VW dealership has been ordered directly from the parts depot via the VIN.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos and PDFs re-hosted.

Michael


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## Steve_1962 (Apr 4, 2012)

I have a quick question regarding the emergency key release. I have a 2005 phaeton with a newer vin number than the TB states and therefore should not have the release feature. I do have the cover on the ignition switch that looks as if the button is underneath it but can not remove this cover. Would it be glued in place to not allow access? I have a dead battery and am trying to get into the trunk. All I have is the main key and a valet key. If I cannot release this key will I have to purchase a new key to get into the trunk. The car has absolutely no power. If I try to charge through a CTEK charger via the cig lighter all I get is a spinning clock. Hopefully I can get this issue fixed.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Steve,

Presumably since the only full key is stuck in the ignition you have tried the right-left-right ignition key sequence to parallel the batteries, but everything is too dead to respond.

And you don't have the ski pass-through hole in the back seat to manipulate the release cable, or else there isn't a mechanical release.

Post #11 in this thread: Dead Battery Locked out of Trunk any Ideas from Willem shows the jump-start post, with its split construction, one half from each battery. The first step is to measure the voltage on each side of the split, to see if either of the batteries are alive at all, as Willem shows in the photo.

Then it may be possible to connect a high-grade electronic-controlled charger to each in turn and allow the charger to try and revive each battery. If one of them is absolutely flat this could take a day or two if the charger is smart enough to know what to do.

Chris


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## Steve_1962 (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks for the quick reply Chris
I have tried all the above fixes.
I just ordered a new key from VW to hopefully open the trunk.
Thanks
Steve


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Good luck with the new key. I guess it can't be added to the car's security coding by the dealer until the power supply is restored, but hopefully it will operate the mechanical lock without having to authenticate its chip against the KESSY.

Chris


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## Steve_1962 (Apr 4, 2012)

Received new key, I got into the trunk, charged battery for 18 hours and all is well.
Thanks for your help Chris.


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## dovetaildoc (Jan 3, 2009)

*Key locked in car!*

Guys,

I thought I remembered that the car wouldn't lock with key in the car.
I had my car detailed to sell to a nice guy coming on Sunday. The detailers shampooed the carpets, back to like new, but they were wet when I saw it early in the day. I told them that I would pick up the car after work tonight, and to leave it outside with the key in the glove box.... He called at the end of the day and said that his guy accidentally locked the key inside, and to bring a spare key. I arrived tonight with both spares, with new batteries, but neither one would open the door. I couldn't even get the key blades to go all the way into the drivers door key slot.

Questions running though my mind:

Is it possible to lock the car with the key inside normally?

Do I have a Kessy problem, possible enough water in the footwell from carpet shampooing?

I'm going to call AAA in the morning. Is it easy to slim-Jim or flat-bar the door open?

Anything ring a bell in the minds of this distinguished group of enthusiasts? Any help would be greatly appreciated by me and the potential buyer!

Mike


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Okay, so you have two basic problems. Your VPS battery cratered while it was being detailed, and there's something wrong with your driver's door lock cylinder. If you had cabin access, putting the key in the ignition would enable emergency start procedures, but you don't have access to the cabin. The combination of the two problems is something of an inconvenience.

Step 1: Unlock and open the trunk with the mechanical lock cylinder hidden inside the VW logo.

Step 2: Provide temporary power to the VPS battery. Either attach a jumper pack to it, or jumper cables from another car, or (carefully) jumper positive-to-positive between your start and VPS batteries (negative is effectively already bonded).

Step 3: Unlock the car using your keyfob remote and open the driver's door.

Step 4: Detach your temporary power support from the VPS battery.

Step 5: Perform a "normal" emergency start using the right-left-right key turn in the ignition method. If it's very dead, just right once may be enough.

Step 6: Drive the car home, and upon arrival, assess the condition of your VPS battery. Recharge at minimum, and consider replacement.

Please note the order of steps 4 and 5. Jumper pack or jumper cable power to the VPS side won't be very clean or stable, and it would probably do more harm than good during startup. At Step 5 we WANT the car to declare the VPS battery dead; otherwise KESSY/Battery Management may not kick in emergency mode for you.

Jason


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## dovetaildoc (Jan 3, 2009)

Thank you Jason

I went back to the car before I read your plan to see if warming the spare keys (possibly a frozen lock cylinder here at zero degrees) and a little more force would open the door, but to no avail. The spares only went in about a half inch. I tried the keys on the trunk, and they went in fully and turned, only to set off the alarm. I didn't try to open the lid at that point, to follow through with your excellent plan. I just waited for the alarm to stop, then came home.... I'll get into the trunk tomorrow....

Thank you for your suggestions.

Mike


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Mike:

Jason's plan is flawless, however, you might want to try a slightly different strategy first, simply because it might be faster and easier:

1) Go buy a small aerosol can of lock de-icer... you can get this stuff at most any garage or truck stop.

2) Spray a good blast into the driver door lock, then work the key in and out, in and out...

3) Repeat step 2 several times, hopefully the key will eventually go all the way in, then you can turn the key and unlock the door. 

If / when the alarm sounds once you open the door, just put the key in the ignition switch and rotate it back and forth to both cancel the alarm horn and start the engine.

Michael


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Does all this mean that the alarm is one of those few consumers of power fed from both batteries??


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## dovetaildoc (Jan 3, 2009)

Jason, I owe you!

Your plan worked perfectly. It's home and in the warm space.
I'm charging up the left battery, and will bring it in to have it tested on Monday.
Thank you again!


Michael,

I appreciate your thoughts as well, and have De-iced the door lock cylinder. I can insert the key now, but it won't turn yet. Maybe a little warm up will help. If not, I'll have the dealer look at that too on Monday.

Thank YOU again!

Sincerely,

Mike

PS....if you ever have any Orthopedic questions, give me a call.


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## dovetaildoc (Jan 3, 2009)

One more little observation:

As far as locking the key in the car....

It turns out, the key locked in the car had a weak weak battery and the cold made it that much more so. Maybe the car didn't read it and allowed the car to lock?

Mike


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Just seen your post.

Once had the same problem, problem was faulty LH Battery, overcame it with wisdom gained from this fine forum!

Glad you are back on the road,

Best,
Steven


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

dovetaildoc said:


> Maybe the car didn't read it and allowed the car to lock?


I don't think so. I think the car reads a RFI transponder in the key - which is independent of the battery... 

Other wise heads will doubtless tell me if I'm wrong (or right....)

Regards

M


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## dovetaildoc (Jan 3, 2009)

n968412L said:


> I don't think so. I think the car reads a RFI transponder in the key - which is independent of the battery...
> 
> Other wise heads will doubtless tell me if I'm wrong (or right....)
> 
> ...


A slight misunderstanding. They key fob battery was low, and the car didn't read it, so allowed locking , perhaps.

Mike


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

dovetaildoc said:


> A slight misunderstanding.


I don't think so. The battery in the key is only to unlock or lock it the car remotely (and activate/deactivate the alarm). For starting, the car reads the RFI transponder in the key; ie you can unlock and then start the car with a key that has no battery in it (using the blade alone). I think it's this that stops the car being locked with the key in it.

However... I'm not sure if I'm not adding in some aspects of keyless start here... I'm sure somebody will correct me if wrong.

Regards
M


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

n968412L said:


> Does all this mean that the alarm is one of those few consumers of power fed from both batteries??


The alarm horn actually has its own little battery inside of it, allowing it to make its noise even if both of the vehicle batteries are dead (or, both vehicle batteries are disconnected after the alarm begins to sound). Whether or not the vehicle would be able to trigger the alarm to make its noise if both vehicle batteries are dead is another question entirely. 

Michael


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## dovetaildoc (Jan 3, 2009)

"I don't think so. The battery in the key is only to unlock or lock it the car remotely (and activate/deactivate the alarm). For starting, the car reads the RFI transponder in the key; ie you can unlock and then start the car with a key that has no battery in it (using the blade alone). I think it's this that stops the car being locked with the key in it."

I think you are right! I was under the impression that the key fob battery was needed to talk to the car. I didn't realize there was an RF in the fob. The key lock in the car was just from a drained left battery during the detail..... They told me later that they had all the doors and trunk open and were listening to the stereo all day.

Good news! I took the car in today, and told them that I might need a new battery. They checked it, and the left battery is just fine. They rated it as 90%. I think it's the original from 2004. Is that possible? My dealer didn't recommend a replacement. That's a honest dealer!

They key in the door lock cylinder problem, was just ice.

Just a suggestion to you all, as has been talked about in endless posts in this forum,....Protect The Left Battery while servicing!.... Low voltage there can cause havoc!

Thank you, Jason, Michael and M. And your good wishes Steven.


Cheers,

Mike


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

dovetaildoc said:


> Jason, I owe you!
> 
> Your plan worked perfectly. It's home and in the warm space.
> I'm charging up the left battery, and will bring it in to have it tested on Monday.
> Thank you again!


I'm glad it all worked out for you.

I saw your pictures over on the for-sale forum. She looks outstanding inside and out. If I were closer to Minnesota, I'd ask for your detailing guy's number.

Jason


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

n968412L said:


> I don't think so. The battery in the key is only to unlock or lock it the car remotely (and activate/deactivate the alarm). For starting, the car reads the RFI transponder in the key; ie you can unlock and then start the car with a key that has no battery in it (using the blade alone). I think it's this that stops the car being locked with the key in it.
> 
> However... I'm not sure if I'm not adding in some aspects of keyless start here... I'm sure somebody will correct me if wrong.


A couple days ago I was going to reply and say that you were wrong. Then I ran an experiment and found out we're both wrong.

*Fact:* There is a passive RFID chip in the metal key itself. This can be picked up by the ignition cylinder antenna whether the remote is powered or not. It works with the battery removed. Presumably this is the same tech used by all the other VW Immo3 equippped cars.

*Fact:* The active RF transmitter for the remote buttons requires battery power. This is for when you hit a button on the remote to lock, unlock, open the trunk, convenience open or close the windows and/or sunroof, or set off the panic alarm.

*New Fact (at least to me):* The keyless entry and start functions also require battery power. I pulled the battery out of my remote and that definitely stopped it from working when the door handles are touched or the start button is pressed. It even stopped the function where the instrument cluster tells you your key battery is low. All I could do was use the key in the manual lock, and use it in the ignition cylinder to start. When I opened the door the alarm-active light on the door sill plate was still flashing, so I was probably in that 15 second grace period.

When you think RFID, you think a 1 cent passive chip that is read/powered by the reading device. That's how the ignition cylinder reader works. Given that the remote batteries last several years, they probably don't have an active radio receiver, so the keyless stuff should be RFID as well. Therefore there's either a second battery-powered RFID chip, or perhaps something else battery-powered that augments the first RFID device's response range when used for keyless entry and start functions.

There is an interesting description of the system in this document, in the context of security concerns: Gone in 360 Seconds: Hijacking with Hitag2

Jason


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks for the additional facts Jason.... can you also say if it's impossible to lock the key in the car... and if so, how does that work.... 

I might experiment on that myself if I can find the spare key.....


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

n968412L said:


> Thanks for the additional facts Jason.... can you also say if it's impossible to lock the key in the car... and if so, how does that work....
> 
> I might experiment on that myself if I can find the spare key.....


It's very possible to lock a key in the car. However, it's reasonably hard to do by accident. I'd run some tests myself, but I just dropped my Phaeton off at Fairfield VW with a work order sufficient to drive Fidelity Warranty Services into corporate bankruptcy, so I'm rocking a Hyundai Accent for the next couple weeks. There are two mechanisms that come into play:

*1) KESSY detection of a key inside the car*

Take a look at VW Self Study Program 273, Phaeton Convenience and Safety Electronics. Keyless entry and start is discussed on pages 8 through 23. The KESSY aerial system is accurate enough to know whether a key is inside or outside the vehicle. On page 23 there is a note: "If the vehicle is locked and a second ignition key with authorized transponder is still located in the vehicle interior, the latter is disabled for start authorization and the vehicle is locked!" So it's definitely smart enough to not authorize unlocking doors with a key you don't possess. Conversely, it's smart enough to not authorize _locking_ with the door handle button with that key. Even if someone broke into the car and laid hands on the key, according to that note, it would be invalid for starting purposes. Regardless, it's possible to lock it in if you have a second key or if you try really hard (see below).

I have seen a Youtube video purporting to show the Phaeton rejecting an attempt to close the trunk with a key inside. Presumably that's to stop you from loading/unloading and accidentally dropping your keys without noticing in time. There is indeed an aerial in the trunk area. I've never tried this myself so I don't know how well it works if at all. Given my recent discovery that the keyless entry transponder needs battery power, I'm assuming the key-invalidation and trunk detection mechanisms would fail if the keyfob battery was dead.

*2) Driver's door lock controls*

This is from memory, my Phaeton isn't here, so go easy on me if I screw it up.

Go up to any relatively recent VW and experiment a bit. You might notice it's rather hard to accidentally lock yourself out via the driver's door. If the door is locked when you're getting out, it will unlock as soon as you open the door. If you hit the lock button with the driver's door open, either on the door panel or on the remote, the driver's door won't actually lock or it will unlock itself when closed. If you're getting in-and-out via the driver's door, you can't actually lock it without possessing a key/remote outside the car.

This is NOT the same thing as #1 above. It doesn't matter if there's a key IN the car. It matters if you have a key/keyfob OUTSIDE of the car to use. It's a mechanical behavior of the driver's door lock. It worked this way on my 2001 Jetta I used to have (I believe), my 2004 Passat I still have for sure, and I believe my Phaeton (haven't tested). Try it: take ALL your keys way far away from your Phaeton, and then try to lock it up using just the driver's door. When other people have posted comments thinking the Phaeton KESSY is outsmarting them, I think this is what they're actually experiencing.

I believe the other three doors don't exhibit this same behavior. So if you're a detailing guy who leaves the keys in the ignition all day, and you finish up your work in the back seat, and you hit the lock button on the inside door panel and close the door, you probably just locked a key in the car.

Jason


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Jason - Results of cheapskate UK experiment:

Neither of my Phaetons have keyless entry.... and it's very possible to lock one key in the car with the other. Or in the boot. The youtube video shows a facility that I guess only works with keyless entry. Thanks for the SSP - I'd not got that one.

I agree with you 100% re the driver door behaviour.

Regards

M


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