# Touareg Buy Back Epic



## jsewell (Jul 1, 2003)

Howdy folks,
I’m in the process of a lemon buyback with my Touareg, and I thought that I would share some of the details with everyone.
I started by searching these forums for “lemon” and “buy back”, and found several people asking for advice. Mostly, the responses were along the lines of “search the forums” or to look up state lemon laws on the Internet. While this is somewhat useful, I thought it would be even more effective to provide a play-by-play account of my experience dealing with Volkswagen.
I live in the Commonwealth of Virginia, which has relatively consumer-friendly lemon laws. Obviously if you live in a different state, you need to do your research.
Highlights of the Virginia Lemon Law include:
•	Claim must be filed within 18 months of purchase
•	Basis for claim: (1) Three or more repair attempts; (2) One or more repair attempt to a serious safety defect; or (3) Out of service for 30 or more calendar days. Note the word “or”. You only need to meet one of these conditions to be eligible for a buy-back or exchange. The repair attempts must be for the same issue, which must continue to exist.
•	The issue must affect the drivability, use, market value, or safety of the vehicle.
•	Consumer may chose between a buy-back or replacement. The replacement must be for a “comparable” vehicle.
•	The manufacturer is allowed to deduct mileage from the returned vehicle at a rate not to exceed ½ IRS mileage allowance.
•	Manufacturer must pay reasonable legal costs if they loose.
There are several other subtleties to this Lemon Law, and it may be worth having an attorney look at your particular case.
Having reviewed the law, I determined that my Touareg meets the requirements for a “Lemon” in Virginia based on the following:
•	Vehicle has been out of service for 50 days this year for the transmission binding problem, which has not been completely repaired to date.
•	Vehicle has suffered an unexplained brake-failure, during which the brake pedal went to the floor, and the vehicle slowed down very gradually.
The Touareg is currently at the dealer, who cannot observe any problems with the brake system and who cannot explain why the brakes failed. I am hesitant drive the vehicle at this point, and I consider it in a state of warranty non-conformity. We’ve all heard stories of people whose “brakes failed”, but when a mechanic checked out the car after the accident, he found nothing wrong. I’d rather not find myself on the receiving end of a wrongful death lawsuit or manslaughter charge because of this vehicle.
Additionally, my Touareg has suffered from almost all of the other common problems read about on Vortex including TPM failure, wind-noise, remote antenna range, audio buzz, water in light assemblies, fit-and-finish issues etc. Volkswagen could argue that these issues do not affect the drivability, use, market value, or safety of the vehicle, so I have chosen not to make them central to my argument.
Starting this past January, I carefully documented every phone call, conversation, and problem related to the Touareg. A month ago, I mailed a letter to Volkswagen Customer Care and to my dealer that included this log. I then confirmed that both had received this letter. It was important to do this to satisfy one of the requirements in the Lemon Law, namely that you must notify the manufacturer of the warranty non-conformity. If you don’t notify the manufacturer of the problems until you request a buy-back, they get an additional 15 days to fix the issues.
Monday of this week, I called VW customer care with the intent to pursue an informal, non-adversarial buy back of the Touareg. I have not yet retained legal counsel, hoping to avoid incurring legal expenses. However, if VW balks, I will not hesitate to call an attorney, as I believe this is an open-and-shut case, and as such VW will be liable for my legal expenses.
I explained to the phone rep that I would like VW to buy back or replace the vehicle pursuant to the Lemon Law. Interestingly, he replied that VW does not work within the Lemon Law, but rather has its own process for repurchasing vehicles. I assured him that since VW does sell cars in Virginia, it must comply with the state’s statutes, but that if VW’s “own process” is easier, faster, and more consumer-friendly, then I would be amenable to this. I suspect he was referring to third-party arbitration. However, the Virginia Lemon Law states that it is the consumer’s choice whether or not to use arbitration prior to asserting lemon law rights.
The phone rep indicated that he would start the process, and that I should hear back from them within 7 days.
Today, my dealer called and requested that I come get the Touareg and return the loaner vehicle, as they cannot find any problems with the brakes. I called VW Customer Care back and explained to them that I was not comfortable driving the car, and suggested that if I have to rent a car, they will eventually have to reimburse me according to the Lemon Law. Customer Care said that they couldn’t help me but that they would note my complaint.
So this is where I stand. If there is any interest, I will continue to document this effort, unless I enter into a non-disclosure situation. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
-J


_Modified by jsewell at 12:33 PM 5-21-2004_


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## leebo (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jsewell* »_...Any suggestions would be appreciated...

Retain an attorney. Now, if not sooner.


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## jsewell (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (leebo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebo* »_
Retain an attorney. Now, if not sooner.

The Virginia Lemon Law seems to be designed to encourage auto manufacturers to pursue a speedy, non adversarial solution. I am hoping that VW will quickly replace the vehicle. The service manager at my dealership told me that VW usually acts quickly and positively in these situations to avoid legal fees, which can quickly add up to tens of thousands of dollars.
I will give them one week. If VW doesn't agree to replace or buy-back the Touareg by next Tuesday, I will hire an attorney.
Has anyone here gone through this process without an attorney? 
-Jason Sewell


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## rinaic (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

Rough situation. Good luck with VW.
Are you going to replace it with a newer model 'egg?


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## leebo (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

I understand, but realize that hiring an attorney does not automatically mean that things will blow up and get nasty and expensive. As the client, you have every right to tell your attorney exactly what you expect.
Statutes like this are sometimes tricky. You can make a tiny mistake that will set you back. You apparently found one (notice to the manufacturer), but are there others?
I would say retain an attorney and pay him or her some money to review your situation. Maybe costs you a couple hundred bucks...nothing in the big picture. If anything, the consultation will increase the odds that you can settle w/o having to hire the attorney to do anything further.
If not? Well...you can get those fees back when you win.


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## Jack F (Feb 16, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

I think part of the problem is that you let it go to 50 days. You should have let everyone know at, say, 15 days that if things don't get resolved soon AND if the car has 30 days in the shop, that you will, without a doubt, proceded according to the states Lemon Law. 
Then they know you mean business. You have let it go a bit more than you could have and VW knows that you can be pushed around. Good for them-bad for you. Give them another week, but let them know this. Ask for the regional manager, talk to your service manager and have him talek to the right people at VWoA to relay your dissatisfaction with problems etc.
Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Coffeeman (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

O.K. you've done what you are required to do so far under the lemon law in Va. I went through this same process with Mercedes-Benz USA. In my experience, you are wasting your time trying to be nice to VWOA. In my case, and many others that I consulted with, car manufacturers will not take you seriously until you retain an attorney. Make sure that you ask for references, and if possible, retain an attorney who has succesfully litigated VWOA. Two issues here:
1: VWOA will be familiar with your attorney, and hopefully know that he means business.
2: He will "know the ropes" as far as VWOA internal procedures work.
Cease all communication with the dealer and VWOA. Let your attorney take over.
In my case, my attorney asked for zero $$$ from me. If your case has merit in the opinion of the attorney, he will have his fees paid by VWOA if he wins, and he will get nothing if he (you) loses. This is also a pretty good measure of how much merit your case actually has, in the opinion of the attorney. If he is not pretty sure that you can win, he's not going to take your case.
Regarding non-disclosure...this is negotiable. In my case, MBUSA asked me to sign a non-disclosure agreement, and I replied that I would be happy to do so for an additional monetary settlement. They declined, and so did I. Va's lemon law does not compel you to agree to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
One other point...if you financed your car, keep making the payments. If you do not VWOA (if you financed through them) will trash your credit rating. If you leased your vehicle, you may have the ability to stop paying in certain States, as some States such as Maryland hold the lessor just as liable as the manufacturer for defect claims.
Your attorney will also probably want to file suit for breach of warranty, and file under the Federal Mag-Moss act as well. He will also probably send VWOF a revocation of your acceptance of the vehicle also.
Good luck, and I hope that you find a quick resolution to your problem.


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## CaptainT-reg (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (Coffeeman)*

I agree with Coffeman. You are wasting your time being nice to VWoA. They'll be nice to you on the phone and tell you that they understand fully, but nothing will ever happen.
The only way is to get a lemon law attorney and actually file the law suit. I GUARANTEE YOU that VWoA will cooperate with you once that law suite is filed.
Like Coffeman said, the attorney will take the case if he/she feels you've got one.
Good Luck!


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## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

Sorry about the problems you have had. Engaging an attorney sends a clear message to VWOA that you are serious. Unfortunately, VWOA has a very poor (and further declining) reputation for customer service and this is one additional symptom.
It is yet one more reason why VWOA will fail, yet again, to satisfy American owners because of its well deserved reputation for selling very poorly manufactured vehicles.
If it is any consolation, Porsche, which sources its SUVs from the same Slovakian plant has the same poor relaibility record in 2004. It is widely believed that the Slovakian facility is a reliability disaster.
Your details will, no doubt, come in handy to others on this forum. Good luck and let us know what the result is.


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## Woodengolfer (Apr 15, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (trexer001)*

You are doing the right thing in documenting, take advice of the posts here and find a qualified Lemon Law Expert, they exist you just have to look for them.
I can say no more about my experience down this path,because of agrement with THEM, but your states Lemon Law is more favorable to you than mine was. It took about 15 months for mine to wrap up, never went to trial however.


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## devintj (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

Having been going through this process as well for the past 6 months, I would recommend reading the warranty regulations in the owners manual in detail (although I know you already have!). VW and all VW owners by statute are required to first arbitrate informally (owner and dealer), second if that fails through the Better Business Bureau and finally if the owner is not satisfied with that outcome, the final recourse is exercising the Lemon Law. I would also recommend you visit the NHTSA web-site and file a claim and visit BBB on-line and file a claim as well. Let the dealer, VWOA and the VW Field Rep for your area know what you are doing. The individuals I worked with were very accomodating and understood where I was coming from. My problems began in October of last year and continue to this day. Continue to document, continue to bring the car to the dealer to have it repaired, remember to call VWOA each time you experience a problem, bring the car to the dealer and retrieve the car after it has been repaired (my excel spreadsheet is 10 pages long!). It was my experience that eventhough the local service manager will try and help you out, he is held accountable and limited in power by the field representative (VW corporate). The corporate field rep is the person who has the power to make decisions regarding the future of your T-rex. All I can say, and I'm being rather obtuse here on purpose is I caught more more flies w/ honey that I did w/ vinegar, and as a result, we have reached an amicable solution....read between the lines! Good luck engage the VW Field Rep first, see what he/she has to say. You might be surprised at the outcome.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (devintj)*

Sounds like very good advice! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (spockcat)*

From my forays over on myvwlemon.com (an entirely different thread as to why I've been going there), I understand that some state lemon laws explicitly state that arrbitration is NOT necessary, despite what the warranty may say. So check your state laws to be sure.
Having said that, arbitration may still be a good idea - honey vs. vinegar, as devintj put it - but if the negoriations become dicey, you may not need to follow through and finish the arbitration.


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## SUVW (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (devintj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *devintj* »_ All I can say, and I'm being rather obtuse here on purpose is I caught more more flies w/ honey that I did w/ vinegar, and as a result, we have reached an amicable solution....read between the lines! 

While I haven't had problems that would warrant thinking about the Lemon Law, I can say with the same obtuseness (that word makes me think of Shawshank Redemption) that I've been very satisfied with the sugars I've received by using honey with VWoA through the proper channels.


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## jsewell (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

Here's an update on the buy back epic.
First of all, thanks to everyone who has responded. There is a lot of good advice here, and it's nice to be able to benefit from other peoples' experiences.
VW is still reviewing the repair history of the vehicle, and I expect to hear back from them in the next few days.
I've been talking to the service manager at my dealership, who seems to be on my side. He's been talking to VW corporate and suggested that it might easier / faster to do a swap than a buy-back. I told him that I would consider a swap for a similarly equipped 2005 Touareg, but that I was still reserving my right to a buy-back under the lemon law.
I've found an attorney and I am on standby to have him take over if VW starts to waiver. I'll keep the group informed.
-J


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## SERVICEMANGLER (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

I have had a few customers that VW has either bought back the vehicle or given trade assist to get them into a new vehicle. I have seen nothing but VW helping people. It probably takes a little longer than you would like to see the process take, but it is much faster than trying to go through the state. I have not had any experience with the state actually doing a lemon law deal - I have heard it could take a year or more here in Texas!
I don't see any reason to do anything but be the gentleman that it appears to me that you are, and I am sure VW will do the right thing. I think the advice to get mean with VW isn't the answer. I think they are reasonable, and that it appears that you are justified with your request, and that your service manager agrees! I hope all ends up well.


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## jsewell (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

I thought I'd update everyone on the process of the Touareg buy back. After looking for a suitable replacement vehicle, I decided that what I really want is a functioning Touareg. There just aren't any other SUVs that match it for the price.
Today, I finally received an offer letter from Volkswagen:








And here is the response that I sent them:








I'll post a summary once the deal is done.
-J


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## Jack F (Feb 16, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

Although humorous, I would not have posted your letter. To each his own.
I do like the "i will forgive..." part.


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## mishref (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (Jack F)*

Demand a W12 engine!!!
Or you will change the faq.

_Quote »_
Should I buy a Touareg?
*No.*


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## jsewell (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

Volkswagen sent me another letter. They have agreed to give me a new Touareg with no cash contribution on my part. Looks like the epic is nearing the end. I'll post again when I actually get the new Touareg.
-J


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## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

well done. 







to you.
I was ready for a niggly back and forth between you and VW.


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

Congrats! We are all hoping to hear about your new TReg, and glad to hear VW stepped up and did the right thing for you!


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## dfilbey (Mar 12, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (sciencegeek)*

Congrats! I'm going through the same process. I've had my t-reg since March and it's been in the shop around 40 days. My dealer is actually hiding the paper trail by not entering every item into the system. I'm not naming names, but it's in Springfield VA







It's the most dishonest dealing I've ever experienced. I've retained a lawer as well. Let's see what happens next. So far VW has offered one month car payment. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## SUVW (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jsewell* »_Volkswagen sent me another letter. They have agreed to give me a new Touareg with no cash contribution on my part. 

And that's the way it should be. It's good to see sugar works, and no vinegar needed to be employed. Kudos to both sides.


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## Eric Dow (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (sciencegeek)*

VERY WELL DONE!!! I'm glad to see that if homework is done, and you hold to your guns that even VW can be made to see that light http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## darylhuff (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

I'm glad it all worked out for you. For others about to go through this I'd advise you to save yourself a lot of grief and hassle and just get an attorney. In my experience (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1430528) an attorney does not make things adversarial and greatly speeds up the process. I got similar results (actually much better under CA lemon law) with zero hassle on my part and only a couple of days between the time I hired the lawyer and me receiving the buyback letter from VW. Again, I'm happy it worked out in the end, but life is too short and my time is too valuable to spend chasing VW when an attorney can do it for no cost to me.


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## jsewell (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (darylhuff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darylhuff* »_I'm glad it all worked out for you. For others about to go through this I'd advise you to save yourself a lot of grief and hassle and just get an attorney. In my experience (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1430528) an attorney does not make things adversarial and greatly speeds up the process. I got similar results (actually much better under CA lemon law) with zero hassle on my part and only a couple of days between the time I hired the lawyer and me receiving the buyback letter from VW. Again, I'm happy it worked out in the end, but life is too short and my time is too valuable to spend chasing VW when an attorney can do it for no cost to me.

A lawyer certainly would have been able to accomplish the same thing that I did, and probably in a shorter period of time. I certainly don't want to deny any attorney his or her fair share of work (I'm married to one in fact).
I more wanted to see if it was possible to go through this process without hiring an attorney, and indeed it is. I estimate that I've probably spent between 15 an 20 hours on this in total, and was very careful to read, understand, and comply with the law. For those without the time or inclination to tackle something like this, hire an attorney.
But this does prove, at least, that Volkswagen is willing to work with you and make you a reasonable offer without hiring council or filing suit.
-J


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## PabloP (Nov 24, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jsewell* »_
A lawyer certainly would have been able to accomplish the same thing that I did, and probably in a shorter period of time. I certainly don't want to deny any attorney his or her fair share of work (I'm married to one in fact).
I more wanted to see if it was possible to go through this process without hiring an attorney, and indeed it is. I estimate that I've probably spent between 15 an 20 hours on this in total, and was very careful to read, understand, and comply with the law. For those without the time or inclination to tackle something like this, hire an attorney.
But this does prove, at least, that Volkswagen is willing to work with you and make you a reasonable offer without hiring council or filing suit.
-J

Jason, it seems that you probably did "consult" a lawyer. ;-) I think everything you say is true. It is possible to go through the process without a lawyer, but you need to understand your legal rights under your state's consumer protection laws, and that isn't always as easy as it seems. Although I am a lawyer, and a litigator, I certainly consulted with a friend who has some experience in this area.
Moreover, as Daryl says, a good lawyer does not make things adversarial. The client is more likely to vent. A lawyer can deal with the facts and leave emotions out of it. But an individual consumer who understands his rights and has a professional and non-confrontational approach to addressing the issues will probably find that VWoA is not difficult to deal with.
Paul


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## SERVICEMANGLER (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

Very glad it worked out - I knew VW would come through - to the nay sayers I say : be professional and act right and you will get good results - I know I certainally give more to the customers who are decent - than the unruly ones! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Company T-Reg (Aug 27, 2003)

Where did they come up with $.18 per mile? My lease has an over mileage charge of $.12 per mile.


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## bravocharlie (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jsewell* »_Volkswagen sent me another letter. They have agreed to give me a new Touareg with no cash contribution on my part. Looks like the epic is nearing the end. I'll post again when I actually get the new Touareg.
-J

Nice work. Couldn't have done it better myself. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jsewell (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: (Company T-Reg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Company T-Reg* »_Where did they come up with $.18 per mile? My lease has an over mileage charge of $.12 per mile. 

Virginia § 59.1-207.11 states "...'Reasonable allowance for use' shall not exceed one-half of the amount allowed per mile by the Internal Revenue Service..."
IRS allows a deduction of $0.375 per mile. $0.375 / 2 = $0.1875.
-J


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## cybulman (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: (jsewell)*

They screwed Jason to the max allowed by the IRS in Virginia is for lovers.
Now, my next question is, what happens if the next one is a lime ..or a lemon too!
Cy


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## jsewell (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: (cybulman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cybulman* »_They screwed Jason to the max allowed by the IRS in Virginia is for lovers.

They *tried* to screw me to the max. They relented after my letter (see several posts above).

_Quote, originally posted by *cybulman* »_Now, my next question is, what happens if the next one is a lime ..or a lemon too!

I sincerely hope that doesn't happen. If it does, I'll get my money back and buy a different vehicle. 
-J


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## ZombiePunk (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (jsewell)*

Congrats on all of this jsewell. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I can only imagine the frustration you have been going through. 
Make sure to post up some pics of the new T-Reg once you get it!


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## waltemike (Oct 12, 2003)

I dealt with Jason Tosetti when I sold back my Touareg to the VW dealer here in Virginia. In my opinion, Mr. Tosetti is a good guy and worked quickly to resolve the problem. We even at one point discussed compensation for the hassle. VWOA was going to give me back $5000, but instead I opted for them to take the whole problem away. The happiest day with my Touareg was the day the dealer took it back and handed me a FAT check. 
I am glad to hear that your problem is coming to a successful resolution. Personally, I think next time I am going with the Cayenne Turbo.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (waltemike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *waltemike* »_I am glad to hear that your problem is coming to a successful resolution. Personally, I think next time I am going with the Cayenne Turbo.

Why do you think a Cayenne is going to be any better? They have all the same issues that Touaregs have. Did you see the post about the Cayenne Turbo lemon being resold on eBay? http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1441837


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## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: (waltemike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *waltemike* »_IVWOA was going to give me back $5000, but instead I opted for them to take the whole problem away. The happiest day with my Touareg was the day the dealer took it back and handed me a FAT check. Turbo.
A happy VW Touareg customer! Good for you.


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## mishref (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: (trexer001)*

FYI, the Touareg and Cayenne are damn near the same vehicle. The chances of you getting a Cayenne Lemon are probably the same as a Touareg. I would personally opt for the Infiniti FX, the gayest SUV of the year.

_Modified by mishref at 2:10 PM 6-18-2004_


_Modified by mishref at 2:10 PM 6-18-2004_


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## jim.bresee (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (mishref)*

Yeah, I agree on the Infiniti.. it's not a bad driving car. A tad smaller the the Treg.
But dam.. I just can stand the look.


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## SUVW (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (mishref)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mishref* »_I would personally opt for the Infiniti FX, the gayest SUV of the year.



I must have missed that month's copy of Hard Man Driver.


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## ranebravw (May 31, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

Hi, jsewell. I feel your pain. I am going thru a similar situation. I have been in the dealer for repairs more than 7 times. Last time the car was there for 2WEEKS, after I picked the cap up had to go back again and now it has been another week driving a loaner –Touareg V6 with none of the problems I have. I believe we got the 1 batch of TRGs of the assembly line with all the problems. The dealer/techs have been friendly and trying to help but without results. I have not had the problems with the breaks but I just started hearing a wear nose coming out of them and is under inspection. (my problems: door latch, tire pressure system, horn, sound system (huss), speakers, excessive MPG (cannot get more that 14MPG - the loaner Trg I am driving is giving me 18 – 20 MPG)
I have also called VW Customer Care 5 times and requested a buy back but they just offered me a 10K miles free service and an apology because at this time I am not eligible for a buy back.
This is very frustration for a $40k luxury SUV. I don’t know what else to do. I have even been thinking about replacing the car for an FX35-infiniti, but as you, I like the functionality and options that VW Touareg offers.
I wonder how many more people are going thru the same issues we have????
Unfortunately, we as consumers do not have any protection what so ever!
The only thing I can think of is make sure other people are aware of the problems. I an thinking of going to the local news in WDC, news sever and WTOPNEWS on your side, etc….
What bothers me the most is that other VW-TRgs owners thinks it is right to keep going back to the dealer to get the car fix – they do not take in account the stress, wasted time and disappointments we have experienced.
Maybe we can get a lawyer to review our case and all the owners with the same problems we have to take our case, what do you think??????


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## ranebravw (May 31, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (dfilbey)*

I completely agree with you, Springfield is where I purchased my car and some of the 1st repairs were done there. After that, and dealing with the salesman and mechanics I decided to move to Alexandria VW, good service and good people but still can fix the problems…


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## SUVW (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (ranebravw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ranebravw* »_
I wonder how many more people are going thru the same issues we have????
What bothers me the most is that other VW-TRgs owners thinks it is right to keep going back to the dealer to get the car fix – they do not take in account the stress, wasted time and disappointments we have experienced.


Many of us have, as is evident by this board... My problems, for which I made at least a dozen trips into the dealer, have all been taken care of, and it's been four months since I've had a problem (I really hesitate to write that). I have vin 23xx, and have surpassed the 30k mark. (I first drove my Touareg a year ago today.)
VW also took care of me, and my dealer ran all the interference. I won't get specific, but I will say that the right dealer CAN use their knowledge of the system to get satisfaction in the form of compensation and future assurances. Of course, it didn't hurt that I've owned six VWs in a row and know the dealer well. Sugar is the way to go, unless you just plan on using the lemon law.


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## ranebravw (May 31, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (SUVW)*

That has and is still is my approach. I have been very patient and passive about it but it is getting to that boiling point where you just don’t want to deal with the problem anymore….


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## SUVW (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (ranebravw)*

I understand. I got to that point, and all of a sudden my Touareg started cooperating. Hope that happens for you, too.


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## meatster (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (ranebravw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ranebravw* »_
What bothers me the most is that other VW-TRgs owners thinks it is right to keep going back to the dealer to get the car fix – they do not take in account the stress, wasted time and disappointments we have experienced.


I'm not sure why people expect anything more from VWoA than any other auto manufacturer. First off you NEVER buy a first model year car from anyone if you want a problem free experience. Yea the t-reg was out in Europe before it came here but for VWoA, it's still a first model year vehicle. Secondly, who in there right mind would expect VWoA or its dealers to all of a sudden, at a flip of a switch, know how to cater to an luxury car customers?? VWoA and it's dealers have NEVER been rated anywhere in the top regarding customer service. It takes time for their processes and ways of thinking to change. The t-reg and phaeton haven't even been here for a full year and there has been progress shown by VWoA. It might not be what people expect but then again these same people are expecting Lexus service from a VW dealer... It ain't gonna happen over night and may never happen at all. 
I was one of the first to hammer VWoA regarding their practices but things are improving. Besides, most of the complaints people have with service issues in here are dealer specific issues. Try a different dealer if you're not happy with your dealer. Then try another one if you still not happy. Let's be honest, one of the reasons we bought a t-reg is because it's a whole chitload of SUV for a great price. It's a great value. 
It's understandable that people want the great SUV at a great price and top notch service to go along with it. I'd love to live in such a world but in the real world you seldom get all that wrapped into one package. And your chances for getting it, almost overnight, from a econo/mid-class car manufacturer turned luxury wannabe, were never more than slim to begin with.
I understand peoples frustration when they have problems but it's a first model year vehicle from a manufacturer who was NEVER known for their pampering of customers and who is making a jump into a new class of car and customer. Didn't any of these thoughts cross peoples minds before the signed of the dotted line?? I'm not trying to minimize peoples emotions. I'm just trying to put expectations into perspective.
Meat


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## Jentregs (May 10, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (meatster)*

Here, here, Meatster!


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## jsewell (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic ALMOST OVER!!!*

My dealer called me and told me that my replacement Touareg is coming in tomorrow (Monday). He told me that he would go ahead and put me in the car tomorrow and that we can complete the paperwork whenever VW corporate finished their end of the process.
I have business travel to NYC and Boston next week, but I'll try to upload pictures of the new Touareg if possible. Apparently, it has the same features and color as my old Touareg, but since it is of a later production, it will have the features like hatch assist and sun shade that mine was missing.
-Jason


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## jsewell (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (jsewell)*

It's done! I just went and picked up my new Touareg this morning (V8). Damn it feels good to be back in a Touareg after months in Dodge Durangos, Cadillac Sevilles, Toyota Camrys, etc. I had almost forgotten how nice of a car this is. I'm glad I decided on a replacement rather than a refund.
The new Touareg's vin number is 082112, versus my old Touareg's vin of 001168. They seem to have made several changes since I bought my original one. I know we've gone over most of this, but here are a few things I noticed about the new Touareg:
1) Hatch Assist
2) Rear Sun Shades
3) Redesigned rear cup holder
4) Missing Ski Bag (not sure why my original one had this -- it didn't have the cold weather package)
5) Redesigned side view mirrors -- there is a lip beneath them that my old Touareg didn't have
6) Much lighter steering (maybe I have the V10 steering setup?)
7) Different TPM options in the MFI
8) Passenger Airbag warning
9) Footwell lights do not seem to stay on while the engine is running and the doors are closed (my old Touareg's footwell lights stayed on whenever the vehicle was on)
10) Missing plastic under the hood
There are a few other changes that I noticed. If the weather turns nice, I'll take some pictures.
And I accidentally left my hard-won flashlight in the loaner vehicle. I went back to get it, but it was locked up and nobody had the key. Do'h!
All in all, it took about 7 weeks between my initial request of a buyback until I got the new car. Not as bad as I had expected.
-Jason


_Modified by jsewell at 11:44 AM 6-26-2004_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (jsewell)*

I'd like to see pictures of the rearseat cupholder and sideview mirrors if you get the chance.


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## ranebravw (May 31, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (jsewell)*

Good for you, my TRG still in the shop, 43 days total. This time it has been 12 days so far, last time 14 days.
I contacted VW America CC once again and have reopened the case.
We'll see what they come up with now. VW Service manager called me on Friday and they were working in the 4 AWD stepper motor, the brakes and could not resolve the problem with the sound system yet.
Very disappointing and frustrating experience with VW so far.


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## jsewell (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (spockcat)*

Spock,
Here is the old cup holder:









And here is the new one:








Another shot of the new cup holder:








And here is the new side view mirror. I don't have pictures of the old one, but I am pretty sure that it did not have this ridge beneath it:








Here's another shot of the side view mirror:








-J

_Modified by jsewell at 3:52 PM 6-26-2004_


_Modified by jsewell at 11:13 PM 6-26-2004_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (jsewell)*

Who says VW isn't working to improve the Touareg?! 49470 doesn't have these two changes. Not that I need them but they were not present in cars built in 12/03.


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## sendero (May 28, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (jsewell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jsewell* »_Spock,
And here is the new side view mirror. I don't have pictures of the old one, but I am pretty sure that it did not have this ridge beneath it:


Wonder if that is to help keep the driver from seeing the turn signal light from inside the car? Someone else had posted they ere distracted by it so maybe this lip is to help with that.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (sendero)*

I heard it increase fuel economy by 3/10th mpg while adding 50 lbs of downforce in the corners.








It's probably for the complaints of mirror whistle.


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## jsewell (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_It's probably for the complaints of mirror whistle.

Actually, in the new Touareg there seems to be a noticeable decrease in wind noise and turbulence with the windows down. This lip probably has something to do with this. It's a common complaint that the Touareg was too noisy with the windows down. Looks like VW fixed it.
-J


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (jsewell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jsewell* »_Spock,
And here is the new one:








_Modified by jsewell at 3:52 PM 6-26-2004_

I see you remembered to put something other than Coors in there. That is a nice slide out beverage holder. I wonder if you can get those wind defectors to retrofit to newer touaregs. Is there any obvious way they are attached?


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_I see you remembered to put something other than Coors in there. That is a nice slide out beverage holder. I wonder if you can get those wind defectors to retrofit to newer touaregs. Is there any obvious way they are attached?

Looks like the deflectors are glued on to me.


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## Juaser (Jan 24, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (spockcat)*

The Pheaton has those cupholders in the middle arm rest








Still cool though.


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## jsewell (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_Is there any obvious way they are attached?

The deflectors aren't stuck on, but are actually a larger piece that what they appear to be in these pictures. They essentially replace the entire bottom portion of the mirror assembly. You might be able to buy that individual piece and replace your existing piece. I'll take a close look tomorrow.
-J


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## SWheat (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (jsewell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jsewell* »_
And here is the new one:








Another shot of the new cup holder:










Is it just me, or are these the same crappy cup holders that go in the MKIV (Jetta & Golf) cars?


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## mishref (Jan 11, 2004)

Whatever they are, they are better then the ones I have.


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## thurstonh3 (Jun 24, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (jsewell)*

Did they give you the choice of buyback or replacement?


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## jsewell (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (thurstonh3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thurstonh3* »_Did they give you the choice of buyback or replacement?

Yes, they gave me a choice of buyback or replacement. I looked for another brand of SUV to replace the Touareg, but after a lot of research, I couldn't find any other SUV that I wanted. In fact, I kind of hated SUVs before the Touareg came out.
-Jason


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## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (jsewell)*

Interesting, I have a 52XXX and do not have the mirror or different cupholders. I wonder if the mirror thing does reduce wind buffeting coming in when the window is open?


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (aircooled)*

I just noticed, while you get the new cup holders (and yes, they are the same as from the Jetta/Golf), you totally lose the center storage. The cup holders should really come from the center console forward anyway.


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## tierraman (Feb 20, 2004)

I dealt with Jason at corporate as well. Once the situation got to him, (In my case 9 weeks in the shop) he had me in a new Touareg within 24 hours. I REALLY liked my 1st Touareg, but this one (VIN 645xx) is different and all good. 1,500+ miles and gas milage is superior (2 mpg diff at this piont), drive train is smoother, engine sounds better (must be the lack of plastic covers), NO comfort memory loss, better remote range. The only physical differnces I have noticed is the lack of engine covers and different side molding under the rocker panels. The first Touareg had slender black plastic molding that caught on shoes upon entering and exiting and would come loss. This one has flat chrome like molding.
Information in this thread combined with my experience confirms to me that VW IS taking care of customers with major problems and is consistantly improving the Touareg in it's first year production. 
VW has restored my confidence.


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## mdjak (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic Done!!! (SWheat)*

Yeah, I can really see IRBRENDA letting someone drink a beverage in back with the new improved cup holders. Heck, she wouldn't even let you breathe back there.


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## MicKay7 (Aug 26, 2005)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (jsewell)*

Hi jsewell,
Just read your saga, was wondering ....now that you have had your replacement Treg for over a year, how satisfied are you?? Any tire wear issues?? I justb posted a letter on Treg tire trouble/lemon law and then noticed your post of a year ago.. Hope my experience will be as good and at this point, think I will just cash out.
sincerely,
Mike


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## TwoRs (Jan 21, 2003)

*Re: Touareg Buy Back Epic (MicKay7)*

Any updates from anyone on buy back?
I have a 04 V8 VIN #XXXX54D and have alot of problems. 
Low mileage, 16,500, bought in Dec of 04.
The latest round of issues are related to drivetrain clunk, and slippage. The stepper motors have been replaced, fluid changed on update. Now we are waiting on VW to suggest the fix.
As alot hear have indicated, I really like the vehicle but the time it has spent in the shop is way out of line.


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