# high mileage? synthetic? advanced fuel economy?



## ockey53 (Nov 10, 2008)

I have a Golf 1.8T with 143k on the clock. I regularly change oil every 3k with Valvoline regular 5w-30 (some regular oil). I drive about 3k miles/month and am looking for a synthetic oil I can use to change less often (every 5k or 7.5k) or maybe sticking with every 3k and going with a high mileage oil or an advanced fuel economy oil from Mobil. 
I love working on my car and don't mind changing the oil once a month, but just trying to treat the golf a bit better with the 143k+ miles. 
So question 1; difference between regular oil and high mileage oil? will it work out better? can I change less often?
if it's not that much of a difference, I can maybe try out the fuel economy oil and see if you really save the 2% mpg. 
What do you guys think?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: high mileage? synthetic? advanced fuel economy? (ockey53)*

Personally I would run a higher detergent 40 weight oil such as Rotella synthetic 5W40 than a "high mileage" oil. I don't know what specific oil you are proposing using but many "high mileage" oils have chemistry such as additives to swell seals to prevent/slow leaks that may do more harm than good. It sounds like you have treated your car well so it may not be sludged up at 143k, but it might be nice to run an oil that will clean well for 3 oil changes of so, and then switch to an ultra low wear oil. 
Also I think you can accomplish both at once (cleaning and low wear) with oils that have a strong additive pack such as M1 TDT 5W40 or Biosyn 5W40 or Redline 10W30 or 5W40. These oils clean extremely well and are very shear stable. With UOAs, you may be able to go much longer intervals also. Here is some info on redline http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4433118, but redline is one of many "top tier" oils IMO. The 3 I mentioned are proven performers both in shear stability and detergency. Another option might be to use German Castrol after running one of the more "aggressive cleaning" oils for 3 oil change intervals. All IMO.


_Modified by saaber2 at 6:16 AM 6-29-2009_


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## ockey53 (Nov 10, 2008)

*Re: high mileage? synthetic? advanced fuel economy? (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_...I don't know what specific oil you are proposing using...

I was looking at Mobil1 fully synthetic 5w-30/5w-40. They are about $6-7/qt at Autozone. I've heard good things about Mobil1 and was wondering if it's worth the extra money? Could the fully synthetic oil allow me to change my oil every 5,000-6,000 miles instead of every 3,000? If so, it would be worth the money. 
What is your opinion? (As it is, VW suggests oil changes every 5k in their manual with synethetic oil.)


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

technically all the VW approved 502.00 oils (which are synthetics) can go 5000 miles on the 1.8T.
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40 should be able to go longer-- but you need to get a Used Oil Analysis done, in order to determine if you can.
You can use Shell Rotella-T synthetic 5w40 also, however it won't last as long as Mobil TDT 5w40.
Since you're still using conventional oil, you may want to consider doing a Auto-RX treatment to clean the engine as well.


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## tjl (Mar 24, 2001)

*Re: high mileage? synthetic? advanced fuel economy? (ockey53)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ockey53* »_I have a Golf 1.8T with 143k on the clock. I regularly change oil every 3k with Valvoline regular 5w-30 (some regular oil). I drive about 3k miles/month and am looking for a synthetic oil I can use to change less often (every 5k or 7.5k) or maybe sticking with every 3k and going with a high mileage oil or an advanced fuel economy oil from Mobil. 

I would recommend reading the owner's manual and the VWoA oil specification update.
The owner's manual should say "use 5W-40 oil". Note that 5W-40 only comes in synthetic in the US.
The update from about 2004, when VWoA was dealing with numerous sludged 1.8T engines (most of which were run on conventional oil, since owners and dealers apparently ignored the original owner's manual recommendation), says to use VW 502.00 rated oil only. Note that VW 502.00 rated oil only comes in synthetic in the US.
Your 5W-30 conventional oil meets neither the original nor the updated specification and makes your 1.8T engine more likely to sludge up. Use an oil that meets at least one and preferably both of the above specifications, if you want to reduce the risk of the oil sludging up in your engine.


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

back in 01, with the OP's car, VW & Audi did say 5w30 was acceptable, as is conventional oil because it said it had to meet VW502.00, API SJ, *or* ACEA A3 with the "or" as the keyword.
keep in mind, the sludged engines primarily affected the longitudinally mounted 1.8T's where the subframe interferes with the oil pan, which reduces the sump capacity. Transverse 1.8T's were not part of the sludge engine program.
However, yes, VW & Audi did tighten up the oil requirements since then.


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## tjl (Mar 24, 2001)

*Re: (GT17V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_back in 01, with the OP's car, VW & Audi did say 5w30 was acceptable, as is conventional oil because it said it had to meet VW502.00, API SJ, *or* ACEA A3 with the "or" as the keyword.

The owner's manual said that if 5W-40 was not available, you could use 5W-30. 5W-40 was available since 1999 at VW dealers (Castrol Syntec 5W-40) and since no later than 2001 at Wal Mart (Shell Rotella T Synthetic). It slowly became more available in other outlets (e.g. Valvoline Synpower 5W-40 and Castrol Syntec 5W-40 at various auto stores).


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (tjl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tjl* »_
The owner's manual said that if 5W-40 was not available, you could use 5W-30. 5W-40 was available since 1999 at VW dealers (Castrol Syntec 5W-40) and since no later than 2001 at Wal Mart (Shell Rotella T Synthetic). It slowly became more available in other outlets (e.g. Valvoline Synpower 5W-40 and Castrol Syntec 5W-40 at various auto stores).

The owner's manual back then never said if you used 5w30, it had to meet vW502.00. Remember, the keyword in the oil recommendation specification is "or".
So, the OP, dealers, etc, technically met the requirements printed in the manuals back then. This is why for Passats & A4's, owners needed proof of oil changes for VWoA & AoA to cover the repairs.
After that, VW changed the wording to say it has to meet VW502.00, which is synthetic only.


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## ockey53 (Nov 10, 2008)

Ok, pick a VW502.00 oil. Easy enough. I've been using an injector cleaner (STP brand) every oil change to help clean them. So question, with a 5w-40 synthetic VW502.00 oil, can I change it every 5000 (or even 6000) miles?


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## tjl (Mar 24, 2001)

*Re: (GT17V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_The owner's manual back then never said if you used 5w30, it had to meet vW502.00. Remember, the keyword in the oil recommendation specification is "or".

That is not relevant, because 5W-30 was to be used only if 5W-40 was not available.

_Quote, originally posted by *2001 VW owner's manual* »_You engine was factory filled with an all season high quality engine oil that has a viscosity grade of SAE 5W-40. You can use this oil over all temperature ranges for normal driving. If you need to add oil between oil changes use any high quality petroleum -- or synthetic -- based oil with the correct specifications. If engine oil viscosity grade SAE 5W-40 is not available, you can also use SAE 5W-30.

In other words, you are supposed to use 5W-40, with 5W-30 only if you cannot find 5W-40.
Which means that the following statement:

_Quote, originally posted by *GTI17V* »_So, the OP, dealers, etc, technically met the requirements printed in the manuals back then.

is false, at least for dealers, since dealers have had SAE 5W-40 oil available to them since 1999 (Castrol Syntec 5W-40, VW part number ZVW-352-540S).


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## tjl (Mar 24, 2001)

*Re: (ockey53)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ockey53* »_Ok, pick a VW502.00 oil. Easy enough. I've been using an injector cleaner (STP brand) every oil change to help clean them. So question, with a 5w-40 synthetic VW502.00 oil, can I change it every 5000 (or even 6000) miles? 

The 2001 owner's manual specified 5,000 mile oil changes for the 1.8T engine and the Passat 2.8L V6 engine, 10,000 miles for the 2.0L, 1.9L TDI, and 2.8L VR6 engines (except for the first two oil changes at 5,000 and 10,000 miles on a new car). Also, there are time limits if your mileage is very low.
If you believe that your driving is more severe (e.g. all city driving in cold start short trips) or more gentle (e.g. all highway cruising), then you may want to consider using oil analysis to determine how long your oil is lasting.
Do not forget to do other maintenance as specified in the owner's manual (if your mileage is beyond the checklist, you can extrapolate the service intervals of various items from those which are listed).


_Modified by tjl at 8:46 PM 7-6-2009_


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

however, since VW & AUdi dealers cheaped out (as well as owners, wanting the $30 oil change)--- VW & Audi condoned it by not screwing over all the customers.
This is why, VWoA & AoA, as I repeat myself, loosened the requirements to burden of proof of oil changes to get the sludge repair coverage.
As I repeat myself, once again--- this is why VW & Audi tightened up the language in the owner's manual to mandate VW502.00 oil.
I'm not making this stuff up--- all this actually happened because the owner's manual gave a lot of leeway in interpretation.


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## ockey53 (Nov 10, 2008)

*Re: (GT17V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_Mobil TDT 5w40.
Since you're still using conventional oil, you may want to consider doing a Auto-RX treatment to clean the engine as well.

I saw that Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 5w-40 on the list. Stupid question, but since my 1.8T isn't a TDI, will that affect anything? Or should I pick a different one?


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

it's not going to affect anything really because VW502.00 also meets VW505.00 (early MKIV TDI's).
iirc, Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel 5w40 is different from Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel *Truck* 5w40, because the M1 TD is European oil.
M1 TDT is a heavy duty diesel truck oil--- which is actually even better to use, even for 1.8T's


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## ockey53 (Nov 10, 2008)

*Re: (GT17V)*

Thanks for the help. I will be using that and doing an oil change every 5k with Mobil 1 TDT (along with a tire rotation). 
So that will give me another 3 weeks between oil changes... hopefully it will be like almost 8 weeks, but probably 7 weeks for me. (Yea, I drive about 130mi/day just to work and back, if I go somewhere else...)


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## ockey53 (Nov 10, 2008)

*Re: (ockey53)*

With synthetic oil do you need a fancy filter? Since I change them very religiously, I wouldn't think it would matter. I use the FRAM filter (standard size).


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## 4ePikanini (Aug 29, 2007)

*FV-QR*

good read here even though it is not VW approved
http://www.4x4community.co.za/...36591


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## BriGreentea (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (fourie_marius)*

Go to most any oil change place and ask for 5W-40 and they will scratch thier heads as most have never heard of it.
Also, I saw one brand at Wal Mart that carries 5W-40 but couldn't remember the name. 
I did my first oil change with regular oil 5w-30. Synthetic was too expensive but may do it the next time. According to the manual, think it says if you have a Diesel engine that synthetic is not optional but mandatory.


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## ockey53 (Nov 10, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (BriGreentea)*

You can find synthetic 5w-40 at any place that sells oil (Autozone, Advance Auto Parts, Napa Auto Parts) not sure what's in your area. The Mobil 1 TDT (5w-40) was $6.99/qt and the stuff I was buying before (Valvoline regular 5w-30) was $3.99/qt. The synthetic can let you go 5000 miles (the regular only 3000). So it's really just about the same money and half the work. Makes sense to me.


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (BriGreentea)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BriGreentea* »_ According to the manual, think it says if you have a Diesel engine that synthetic is not optional but mandatory. 

All late model VW's require synthetic, though the approvals vary for diesel vs gas.


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