# Who else is waiting until the SEL Premium comes with FWD



## 1.4T (Nov 8, 2017)

I am because you dont need AWD here so i am keeping my Suburban 2WD LTZ 2010 until the FWD SEL Premium comes out if it ever comes out

I would like through to have all my cars to be a VW I already have a 2017 Jetta S 1.4T and a 2003 Golf GTI VR6


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## Gromicide (Nov 1, 2017)

I am just waiting for my Wife to get over her Wrangler so I can convince her she needs the Atlas instead. We don't need AWD either but not sure I would spring for the Premium either way. I do love me some bells and whistles though


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

I would’ve waited for a 2.0T 4motion if t existed 


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## Gromicide (Nov 1, 2017)

0macman0 said:


> I would’ve waited for a 2.0T 4motion if t existed
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How about a TDI Atlas? looks like Russia gets it. I would jump on that.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

Gromicide said:


> How about a TDI Atlas? looks like Russia gets it. I would jump on that.


Don’t tempt me!!!!


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## WeeeZer14 (May 25, 2012)

Gromicide said:


> How about a TDI Atlas? looks like Russia gets it. I would jump on that.


I could almost guarantee you that was VW's original plan before the diesel scandal hit. With how much I enjoyed my TDI Passat I would not have thought twice about a TDI Atlas. I do miss 40 MPG and 700+ miles to a tank. The 1.8T is a little more fun for sure, but the uniqueness of the TDI was nice.

But as others have said, TDI in the US is dead. Hybrid and full electric will be the only "alternative" propulsion I think we will see in the US from VW going forward.


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## Gromicide (Nov 1, 2017)

WeeeZer14 said:


> I could almost guarantee you that was VW's original plan before the diesel scandal hit. With how much I enjoyed my TDI Passat I would not have thought twice about a TDI Atlas. I do miss 40 MPG and 700+ miles to a tank. The 1.8T is a little more fun for sure, but the uniqueness of the TDI was nice.
> 
> But as others have said, TDI in the US is dead. Hybrid and full electric will be the only "alternative" propulsion I think we will see in the US from VW going forward.


I was holding out hope that TDI would be back but I do see the same hints at e-cars etc...no doubt the atlas was supposed to be a TDI based on looking under the hood among other clues.


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## WeeeZer14 (May 25, 2012)

Gromicide said:


> I was holding out hope that TDI would be back but I do see the same hints at e-cars etc...no doubt the atlas was supposed to be a TDI based on looking under the hood among other clues.


Yeah it looks like you could put TWO engines into that engine compartment.


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## tallguy09 (Nov 14, 2016)

Gromicide said:


> How about a TDI Atlas? looks like Russia gets it. I would jump on that.


Absolutely, the tank needs a TDi, it’s so heavy and that torque would be great.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Guys, TDI in the U.S. is dead. 
Also, not sure VW would push 6yrs/72,000 miles warranty on TDI using bi-turbo engine from European Passat. That engine is way to complex for drivers VW is aiming at with Atlas. This forum is different, people understand such complex technology, but average soccer mom? VR6 is engine for them. 
I think VW is going to bring 2.5 VR6 TSI from China once they figure out all potential problems that that engine might have. It is brand new engine, and China is good market to test it on the road by consumers before bringing it to much more competitive market in the U.S. 
On side not. Owning BMW X5 35d, I am not sure do I want next vehicle to have SCR technology. For sure 425 lb-ft torque in X5 are fun, and it is cheap on fuel, but SCR is pain in the ass.


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## Atlas123 (Sep 18, 2017)

edyvw said:


> I think VW is going to bring 2.5 VR6 TSI from China once they figure out all potential problems that that engine might have. It is brand new engine, and China is good market to test it on the road by consumers before bringing it to much more competitive market in the U.S.


They are using the 2.5 VR6 TSI in China only because China had a prohibitive tax on engines larger than 2.5 liters. I don?t think they are going to bring it to other markets without the same regulatory impetus.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Atlas123 said:


> They are using the 2.5 VR6 TSI in China only because China had a prohibitive tax on engines larger than 2.5 liters. I don?t think they are going to bring it to other markets without the same regulatory impetus.


Beat me to the point about the tax. They created that engine as a workaround, not to test it for the US. The 2.5t is a better alternative than the 2.0t imo, but it is not as powerful as the VR6- which is perfectly adequate for this size vehicle. Remember the VR6 in the touareg? That thing was a dog in comparison. I urge anyone who is doubting this engine to go test drive a 2011 or newer touareg VR6 to compare the power output.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Atlas123 said:


> They are using the 2.5 VR6 TSI in China only because China had a prohibitive tax on engines larger than 2.5 liters. I don?t think they are going to bring it to other markets without the same regulatory impetus.


Chinese tax law is punitive to vehicles above 300hp. That is why 2.5 VR6 TSI has 299hp. 
Also, 2.5 VR6 is more efficient engine. VW will have to address mpg to stay competitive soon. Expect soon more turbo engines in this segment. Honda introduced 2.0T in Accord with 278lb-ft. With that engine Pilot will drop weight to around 4000lbs and that thing could hit on hwy 30mpg. There is no way VW can stay competitive with current VR6 in the future. 


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

ice4life said:


> Beat me to the point about the tax. They created that engine as a workaround, not to test it for the US. The 2.5t is a better alternative than the 2.0t imo, but it is not as powerful as the VR6- which is perfectly adequate for this size vehicle. Remember the VR6 in the touareg? That thing was a dog in comparison. I urge anyone who is doubting this engine to go test drive a 2011 or newer touareg VR6 to compare the power output.


Not as powerful as VR 6 in Atlas?
2.5 VR6 TSI has 299hp (detuned for Chinese market) and 364lb-ft. 
3.6 VR6 has 276hp (this is not problem to increase to 300hp) and 266lb-ft (this is problem to increase). 
So please, how again 3.6 VR6 is stronger then 2.5 VR6 TSI? 


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Not as powerful as VR 6 in Atlas?
> 2.5 VR6 TSI has 299hp (detuned for Chinese market) and 364lb-ft.
> 3.6 VR6 has 276hp (this is not problem to increase to 300hp) and 266lb-ft (this is problem to increase).
> So please, how again 3.6 VR6 is stronger then 2.5 VR6 TSI?
> ...


My bad- i thought the 2.5 was a 4cyl. Do you even have an atlas dude/ why you trolling so hard?


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

ice4life said:


> My bad- i thought the 2.5 was a 4cyl. Do you even have an atlas dude/ why you trolling so hard?


Agreed


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Chinese tax law is punitive to vehicles above 300hp. That is why 2.5 VR6 TSI has 299hp.
> Also, 2.5 VR6 is more efficient engine. VW will have to address mpg to stay competitive soon. Expect soon more turbo engines in this segment. Honda introduced 2.0T in Accord with 278lb-ft. With that engine Pilot will drop weight to around 4000lbs and that thing could hit on hwy 30mpg. There is no way VW can stay competitive with current VR6 in the future.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


While I would love to see turbo engines filter into the pilot / ridgeline, I don’t think Honda will do that because of towing capacities. The 2.0T is a great engine, but I don’t think it would stand up too the abuse of towing.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

ice4life said:


> My bad- i thought the 2.5 was a 4cyl. Do you even have an atlas dude/ why you trolling so hard?


1. When you bought Atlas did you get specific degree that said you are specifically qualified in talking about it?
2. Why you assume it is hard? 
3. I stated from marketing stand point that VW will have to change engines soon. VW sold some 3,700 pieces in October. Soon they will reach peak and will have to address shortcomings. It is all about competition. Honda will soon to facelift and address horrid infotainment system and that ridiculous shifter. You cannot sell car forever arguing how it is biggest in the segment. Others will soon catch up and others have already established name in this segment. So, if you think this is trolling just because you do not like what you hear, oh well....


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> While I would love to see turbo engines filter into the pilot / ridgeline, I don’t think Honda will do that because of towing capacities. The 2.0T is a great engine, but I don’t think it would stand up too the abuse of towing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It can tow 5,000lbs. Audi Q7 does, Volvo XC90 does. It is possible to address that issue. Bigger issue is whether 2.0T can sustain grocery getting driving where fluids are not properly warmed up etc. Honda has big issues with fuel dilution on 1.5T engines so we will see whether 2.0T is any different. 
VW is in bit of problem here. They can easily make Atlas most sophisticated, fastest etc. vehicle in the segment. But how much it will cut into Audi sale is the question? When people ask why VW doesn’t do something, they should first take a look how that affects Audi! 


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> It can tow 5,000lbs. Audi Q7 does, Volvo XC90 does. It is possible to address that issue. Bigger issue is whether 2.0T can sustain grocery getting driving where fluids are not properly warmed up etc. Honda has big issues with fuel dilution on 1.5T engines so we will see whether 2.0T is any different.
> VW is in bit of problem here. They can easily make Atlas most sophisticated, fastest etc. vehicle in the segment. But how much it will cut into Audi sale is the question? When people ask why VW doesn’t do something, they should first take a look how that affects Audi!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m not saying it can’t tow, it’s numbers suggest otherwise. But until Honda modifies it to handle the extra heat towing creates, they won’t replace their V6 in the more utilitarian vehicles. I don’t believe either that turbocharging is the answer to everything. In fact, real world towing vehicles that are turbocharged get about the same real world MPG as their naturally aspirated counterparts.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> 1. When you bought Atlas did you get specific degree that said you are specifically qualified in talking about it?
> 2. Why you assume it is hard?
> 3. I stated from marketing stand point that VW will have to change engines soon. VW sold some 3,700 pieces in October. Soon they will reach peak and will have to address shortcomings. It is all about competition. Honda will soon to facelift and address horrid infotainment system and that ridiculous shifter. You cannot sell car forever arguing how it is biggest in the segment. Others will soon catch up and others have already established name in this segment. So, if you think this is trolling just because you do not like what you hear, oh well....
> 
> ...


No degree. But owning a vehicle gives you better insight into its capabilities, and transference of real-life experience is better than the spewing of useless criticisms- in this case your ragging on VW for its engine choice. Trust me when I tell you, I just finished dealing with VWofA, and they don't give a damn about my purchase or yours. They are going to do whatever they choose as they always do! Moving on..


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> I’m not saying it can’t tow, it’s numbers suggest otherwise. But until Honda modifies it to handle the extra heat towing creates, they won’t replace their V6 in the more utilitarian vehicles. I don’t believe either that turbocharging is the answer to everything. In fact, real world towing vehicles that are turbocharged get about the same real world MPG as their naturally aspirated counterparts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agree. But how many drivers of Pilot tow or Atlas? Turbocharging is an answer to stricter fuel requirements. It is inevitable that turbo will become go to in this segment. Bigger challenge is how to dumbproof turbo engine for average driver in this segment? 3.6 VR6 from that point is great engine. 


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## stevehayes01 (Aug 5, 2005)

edyvw said:


> Agree. But how many drivers of Pilot tow or Atlas? Turbocharging is an answer to stricter fuel requirements. It is inevitable that turbo will become go to in this segment. Bigger challenge is how to dumbproof turbo engine for average driver in this segment? 3.6 VR6 from that point is great engine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


VW has already done a good job of "dumbproofing" the Turbo TSI motors as evident in the GTI , GLI etc....... VW may bring the TDI back but not for a long time. I think what they need to do with the Atlas (and I do own one.. 3.6 4Motion SEL) is port the 3.0 Audi TSI Supercharged motor over. That would give the Atlas the grunt it needs , the tuning abilities people want and a more updated platform to work with long term.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

stevehayes01 said:


> VW has already done a good job of "dumbproofing" the Turbo TSI motors as evident in the GTI , GLI etc....... VW may bring the TDI back but not for a long time. I think what they need to do with the Atlas (and I do own one.. 3.6 4Motion SEL) is port the 3.0 Audi TSI Supercharged motor over. That would give the Atlas the grunt it needs , the tuning abilities people want and a more updated platform to work with long term.


TDI is not coming back. Actually gasoline engines took over sale in Europe, so that is sign where things are going.
Dumbing down is not necessary in GTI and GLI. Average customer of Atlas is not average customer of GTI. People who drive GTI know what they drive. VW with Atlas is going after drivers of Toyota, Honda etc. and those drivers mostly do not have fck. clue what is under the hood. This forum is not indicative of average buyer of Atlas. 
As for 3.0 V6 supercharge, there is no way that can fit into MQB. That is why 2.5 VR6 is developed. Classic V6 with 90 degree angle of cylinders will not fit there.


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## stevehayes01 (Aug 5, 2005)

edyvw said:


> TDI is not coming back. Actually gasoline engines took over sale in Europe, so that is sign where things are going.
> Dumbing down is not necessary in GTI and GLI. Average customer of Atlas is not average customer of GTI. People who drive GTI know what they drive. VW with Atlas is going after drivers of Toyota, Honda etc. and those drivers mostly do not have fck. clue what is under the hood. This forum is not indicative of average buyer of Atlas.
> As for 3.0 V6 supercharge, there is no way that can fit into MQB. That is why 2.5 VR6 is developed. Classic V6 with 90 degree angle of cylinders will not fit there.


 I think you underestimate people drastically as the Honda culture has been alive just as long as the VW culture and lots of those drivers started out in modded Civics and Accords etc.. I guarantee half of the people who run a GTI or GLI could not change their own plugs if they had to and dont understand the complexities of how the motor works... They just know they have an awesome 2.0T that got a nasty tune on and its quick....Its just how it is..


The Atlas just got the hand me down 3.6 from the Tourag because it was there and readily available. I understand why the 3.0 was not a choice for the MQB platform it would just been A nice to have a better supported 6Cyl with boost from the factory. The TDI may be dying but they still sell a ton of then across the sea there... and from VW press releases it still seems Russia is getting a 2.0TDI in the Atlas/Terramont platform... so who knows down the road what will come.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

stevehayes01 said:


> I think you underestimate people drastically as the Honda culture has been alive just as long as the VW culture and lots of those drivers started out in modded Civics and Accords etc.. I guarantee half of the people who run a GTI or GLI could not change their own plugs if they had to and dont understand the complexities of how the motor works... They just know they have an awesome 2.0T that got a nasty tune on and its quick....Its just how it is..
> 
> 
> The Atlas just got the hand me down 3.6 from the Tourag because it was there and readily available. I understand why the 3.0 was not a choice for the MQB platform it would just been A nice to have a better supported 6Cyl with boost from the factory. The TDI may be dying but they still sell a ton of then across the sea there... and from VW press releases it still seems Russia is getting a 2.0TDI in the Atlas/Terramont platform... so who knows down the road what will come.


Agree, Honda has fallowing, no doubt, however Honda suffers from that “it is Japanese, it must be reliable “ syndrome. My in laws have 2006 and 2009 Pilot, and it is biggest POS one could buy. I have never seen cars that go through so many brake rotors. Also, front differential failed on 2009, VCM issues etc, etc. Granted, there are everywhere buyers that are completely ignorant what they buying. Just look at BMW’s. Actually BMW engineers complained about habits of American drivers in one TSB that addressed issues on N63 engine. They introduced lighter oils to all engines to address grocery getting driving. 
TDI is still popular. I have currently 2011 Skoda Octavia in Europe that runs on good ole 1.9 TDI. TDI engines are still having image in Europe similar to Toyota Camry here. It is like they gain in value with years. But days are numbered. Many cities are banning diesels and TSI and other turbo gasoline engines are getting more popular. 
3.0 V6 would be great in Atlas. Problem is that VW decided to divest VW and Audi as much as it is possible. VW could easily offer 2.0T with AWD and some 280lb-ft, but....


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Agree, Honda has fallowing, no doubt, however Honda suffers from that “it is Japanese, it must be reliable “ syndrome. My in laws have 2006 and 2009 Pilot, and it is biggest POS one could buy. I have never seen cars that go through so many brake rotors. Also, front differential failed on 2009, VCM issues etc, etc. Granted, there are everywhere buyers that are completely ignorant what they buying. Just look at BMW’s. Actually BMW engineers complained about habits of American drivers in one TSB that addressed issues on N63 engine. They introduced lighter oils to all engines to address grocery getting driving.
> TDI is still popular. I have currently 2011 Skoda Octavia in Europe that runs on good ole 1.9 TDI. TDI engines are still having image in Europe similar to Toyota Camry here. It is like they gain in value with years. But days are numbered. Many cities are banning diesels and TSI and other turbo gasoline engines are getting more popular.
> 3.0 V6 would be great in Atlas. Problem is that VW decided to divest VW and Audi as much as it is possible. VW could easily offer 2.0T with AWD and some 280lb-ft, but....
> 
> ...


Your run-on posts are hard to read. You should try Google Translate.


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## tallguy09 (Nov 14, 2016)

I think I'm waiting for the Atlas with a great modern engine with lots of low end torque.
Don't think the current engines qualify.
TDI for sure but as you guys notes, it's dead here and that's such a shame in a way.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

ice4life said:


> Your run-on posts are hard to read. You should try Google Translate.


Maybe you just have no idea about topic. 
Oh shot, I forgot you got engineering degree with Atlas. 


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

tallguy09 said:


> I think I'm waiting for the Atlas with a great modern engine with lots of low end torque.
> Don't think the current engines qualify.
> TDI for sure but as you guys notes, it's dead here and that's such a shame in a way.


Based on the article by Auto Moto und Sport, 2.5 VR6 TSI is capable of getting 22-23mpg in the city. Probably EPA would lower that but if that is true, then it begs question: why diesel? While a lot of diesel low end torque is addictive in the city or mountains, SCR issues are seriously aggravating. SCR will kill diesels. It just doesn’t make sense in the long run to deal with complexity of that system. 


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

That SCR, It's crazy complex, spraying fluid into the exhaust and all


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

tallguy09 said:


> I think I'm waiting for the Atlas with a great modern engine with lots of low end torque.
> Don't think the current engines qualify.
> TDI for sure but as you guys notes, it's dead here and that's such a shame in a way.


If it has anything going for it, that is great low end torque with no turbo lag. I’ve owned many vehicles, some with 400+ hp. I love the character of this engine.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

stevehayes01 said:


> I think you underestimate people drastically as the Honda culture has been alive just as long as the VW culture and lots of those drivers started out in modded Civics and Accords etc.. I guarantee half of the people who run a GTI or GLI could not change their own plugs if they had to and dont understand the complexities of how the motor works... They just know they have an awesome 2.0T that got a nasty tune on and its quick....Its just how it is..
> 
> 
> The Atlas just got the hand me down 3.6 from the Tourag because it was there and readily available. I understand why the 3.0 was not a choice for the MQB platform it would just been A nice to have a better supported 6Cyl with boost from the factory. The TDI may be dying but they still sell a ton of then across the sea there... and from VW press releases it still seems Russia is getting a 2.0TDI in the Atlas/Terramont platform... so who knows down the road what will come.


Honda tuning culture is alive and well, probably more so than VW.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Agree, Honda has fallowing, no doubt, however Honda suffers from that “it is Japanese, it must be reliable “ syndrome. My in laws have 2006 and 2009 Pilot, and it is biggest POS one could buy. I have never seen cars that go through so many brake rotors. Also, front differential failed on 2009, VCM issues etc, etc. Granted, there are everywhere buyers that are completely ignorant what they buying. Just look at BMW’s. Actually BMW engineers complained about habits of American drivers in one TSB that addressed issues on N63 engine. They introduced lighter oils to all engines to address grocery getting driving.
> TDI is still popular. I have currently 2011 Skoda Octavia in Europe that runs on good ole 1.9 TDI. TDI engines are still having image in Europe similar to Toyota Camry here. It is like they gain in value with years. But days are numbered. Many cities are banning diesels and TSI and other turbo gasoline engines are getting more popular.
> 3.0 V6 would be great in Atlas. Problem is that VW decided to divest VW and Audi as much as it is possible. VW could easily offer 2.0T with AWD and some 280lb-ft, but....
> 
> ...


Honda’s are extremely reliable from my experience, I have owned over 5 and while every vehicle will have issues eventually, they were some of the best. Still have one.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Agree. But how many drivers of Pilot tow or Atlas? Turbocharging is an answer to stricter fuel requirements. It is inevitable that turbo will become go to in this segment. Bigger challenge is how to dumbproof turbo engine for average driver in this segment? 3.6 VR6 from that point is great engine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You would be surprised depending on the part of the country you live in.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> You would be surprised depending on the part of the country you live in.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would say Colorado sees it’s share of towing. Yet to see one Pilot doing it. 


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> That SCR, It's crazy complex, spraying fluid into the exhaust and all


I would say you have no idea. But sometimes ignorance is a bless. 


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> If it has anything going for it, that is great low end torque with no turbo lag. I’ve owned many vehicles, some with 400+ hp. I love the character of this engine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is typical European naturally aspirated engine with torque in mid-range. Designed while manual transmissions were still ruling the roads (they still do in Europe though). 
Problem with torque in mid-range and extremely flat torque in high revs. which VR6 is known for is that when you need power, transmission is not going to stay around 3,500rpm but will shift to lowest possible gear. That is where Japanese engines are better. 
There is no doubt that VR6 has good pull for NA engine between 3-4k, but when you passing car on two lane hwy you will floor it, and lack or torque is obvious there. 


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> VR6 is known for is that when you need power, transmission is not going to stay around 3,500rpm but will shift to lowest possible gear.


If you drive in S instead of D, i find that it stays in a lower gear. And the passing power is immensely better. But you'd know that if you owned it.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> I would say you have no idea. But sometimes ignorance is a bless.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am extremely familiar with the implementation and chemistry behind it. I guess your the only expert on this forum?


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> I would say Colorado sees it’s share of towing. Yet to see one Pilot doing it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good thing you are always right? LoL


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> It is typical European naturally aspirated engine with torque in mid-range. Designed while manual transmissions were still ruling the roads (they still do in Europe though).
> Problem with torque in mid-range and extremely flat torque in high revs. which VR6 is known for is that when you need power, transmission is not going to stay around 3,500rpm but will shift to lowest possible gear. That is where Japanese engines are better.
> There is no doubt that VR6 has good pull for NA engine between 3-4k, but when you passing car on two lane hwy you will floor it, and lack or torque is obvious there.
> 
> ...


I would describe it as a fairly linear torque curve compared to Japanese engines. Nothing wrong with that.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> I am extremely familiar with the implementation and chemistry behind it. I guess your the only expert on this forum?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Idea and reliability are two different things. 
Search a bit about SCR failures on all German vehicles (BOSCH developed SCR together with BMW, MB, VW/Audi, Opel and Ford). Actually in the U.S. most parts on VW Touareg, BMW X5, Audi Q7 diesels have same serial numbers. 
So, if you think that SCR is not a problem, I guess your budget to fix just that is running, what? $2000-5000 a year? 
Of course, there are ways around, DIY mostly, but most people are not inclined to put resistors on passive tanks, disassemble active tanks, and there is no way around NOx sensors which are not only expensive, but ridiculously hard to calibrate after replacement.
I would say you are extremely unfamiliar about track record of SCR technology.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> Good thing you are always right? LoL


Absolutely.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Idea and reliability are two different things.
> Search a bit about SCR failures on all German vehicles (BOSCH developed SCR together with BMW, MB, VW/Audi, Opel and Ford). Actually in the U.S. most parts on VW Touareg, BMW X5, Audi Q7 diesels have same serial numbers.
> So, if you think that SCR is not a problem, I guess your budget to fix just that is running, what? $2000-5000 a year?
> Of course, there are ways around, DIY mostly, but most people are not inclined to put resistors on passive tanks, disassemble active tanks, and there is no way around NOx sensors which are not only expensive, but ridiculously hard to calibrate after replacement.
> I would say you are extremely unfamiliar about track record of SCR technology.


I imagine you had a problem with the scr system in your used x5 diesel so now all scr systems are terrible. 

The scr system in my touareg lasted 75k miles before its first issue. Provided you keep it maintained.. You spew so much vile misinformation.

Stop being so ****ing negative. You keep saying vw won't be able to compete because of the engine, when ironically your negativity and nonsense is probably detracting more Toyota and Honda owners than the engine itself.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

ice4life said:


> I imagine you had a problem with the scr system in your used x5 diesel so now all scr systems are terrible.
> 
> The scr system in my touareg lasted 75k miles before its first issue. Provided you keep it maintained.. You spew so much vile misinformation.
> 
> Stop being so ****ing negative. You keep saying vw won't be able to compete because of the engine, when ironically your negativity and nonsense is probably detracting more Toyota and Honda owners than the engine itself.


I did not have actually a lot of problems on my X5 when it comes to SCR, on top of that most common failures on X5 are same parts as on Touareg. I do however have knowledge about what it takes to replace tanks, heater sensors, NOx sensors etc.
But, as I previously told you, once you buy a car you do not get monopoly on knowledge about something, you actually acquire that in different way. But I would say, you already know that.
Plus, let's not get into efficiency of SCR system on Touareg 3.0 V6 TDI. I would guess you got a letter regarding that from VW or EPA.
Who is negative? You saw commercial on CNN. Apple is an apple, regardless how hard you claim it is banana.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Idea and reliability are two different things.
> Search a bit about SCR failures on all German vehicles (BOSCH developed SCR together with BMW, MB, VW/Audi, Opel and Ford). Actually in the U.S. most parts on VW Touareg, BMW X5, Audi Q7 diesels have same serial numbers.
> So, if you think that SCR is not a problem, I guess your budget to fix just that is running, what? $2000-5000 a year?
> Of course, there are ways around, DIY mostly, but most people are not inclined to put resistors on passive tanks, disassemble active tanks, and there is no way around NOx sensors which are not only expensive, but ridiculously hard to calibrate after replacement.
> I would say you are extremely unfamiliar about track record of SCR technology.


You know what I meant. And what makes you so familiar oh fountain of knowledge? You assume you are the only person who knows anything about anything? That’s a pretty bold assumption sir.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Absolutely.


Humble too! Ha!


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> But, as I previously told you, once you buy a car you do not get monopoly on knowledge about something, you actually acquire that in different way.


Somehow you got a monopoly on all knowledge though? Seems ironic.....


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## stevehayes01 (Aug 5, 2005)

Well this thread went down in flames.....we are all car people here and as an owner it does give you a little more insight on aspects of the car since you live and breathe car daily and not just read about it on the internet.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> You know what I meant. And what makes you so familiar oh fountain of knowledge? You assume you are the only person who knows anything about anything? That’s a pretty bold assumption sir.


So far I did not hear from you anything as why SCR is reliable or simple (as you stated previously). So, I would seriously like to hear that as probably would do other owners of cars equipped with SCR.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> Humble too! Ha!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are the one who brought it up


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> So far I did not hear from you anything as why SCR is reliable or simple (as you stated previously). So, I would seriously like to hear that as probably would do other owners of cars equipped with SCR.


I’ll save my breath for someone who’s worth it.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

0macman0 said:


> I’ll save my breath for someone who’s worth it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Amen- Just ignore his posts. That will be the only way to get him to stop spewing bs. He feeds off your responses but clearly he has no real knowledge of the Atlas.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

ice4life said:


> Amen- Just ignore his posts. That will be the only way to get him to stop spewing bs. He feeds off your responses but clearly he has no real knowledge of the Atlas.


Do I have too? It was kinda fun, I got a kick out of it 


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

stevehayes01 said:


> Well this thread went down in flames.....we are all car people here and as an owner it does give you a little more insight on aspects of the car since you live and breathe car daily and not just read about it on the internet.


What i've been saying all along. Idk why this thread (which was about a FWD SEL Premium) turned into his all too familiar nonsense about diesels, how the VR6 sucks, and the durango (yikes).


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

ice4life said:


> What i've been saying all along. Idk why this thread which was about a FWD SEL Premium turned into his all too familiar nonsense about diesels, how the VR6 sucks, and the durango (yikes)


Let’s re-rail this train wreck, about those 2.0T 4motion models....


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## stevehayes01 (Aug 5, 2005)

0macman0 said:


> Let’s re-rail this train wreck, about those 2.0T 4motion models....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Agreed. Would love to see a 4motion 2.0 but from everything I have seen I don’t think it’s in the cards. We can see though.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

stevehayes01 said:


> Agreed. Would love to see a 4motion 2.0 but from everything I have seen I don’t think it’s in the cards. We can see though.


Yeah maybe someday. I meant to say FWD lol


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

​


stevehayes01 said:


> Agreed. Would love to see a 4motion 2.0 but from everything I have seen I don’t think it’s in the cards. We can see though.


IDK, maybe when Q7 gets 2.9 V6 to separate Atlas far from Q7 power wise. 
Maybe when sale numbers start to decline or facelift in few years.
But, there is no any practical reason why not to bring 2.0T AWD.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> ​
> IDK, maybe when Q7 gets 2.9 V6 to separate Atlas far from Q7 power wise.
> Maybe when sale numbers start to decline or facelift in few years.
> But, there is no any practical reason why not to bring 2.0T AWD.


I believe it is weight. Adding the 4motion system could have been a no go with the power to weight distribution. Chevy does this with the traverse premier redline 2.0t. It is only available in FWD due to weight. 

Also, I do not see the 2.9tt in the Q7 any time soon. The 2.9TT has much higher output than the Audi 3.0T (440 hp v.s 354 hp) and i don't see why an everyday Q7 would need to offer 440hp in the us. Maybe a us SQ7 in the future (although doubtful). Why would you buy the cayenne then? It's the same reason you get the VR6 in the Atlas, and not the 3.0t. Differentiation and segmentation.


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## stevehayes01 (Aug 5, 2005)

edyvw said:


> ​
> IDK, maybe when Q7 gets 2.9 V6 to separate Atlas far from Q7 power wise.
> Maybe when sale numbers start to decline or facelift in few years.
> But, there is no any practical reason why not to bring 2.0T AWD.



As mentioned its 100% a weight factor.. The 2.0 would never have enough to it to allow for towing and awd in the Atlas.. its just a big pig.. so until they make it from ultra lite carbon fiber..lol then I think the VR6 variant or another similar platform will do the job.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

stevehayes01 said:


> As mentioned its 100% a weight factor.. The 2.0 would never have enough to it to allow for towing and awd in the Atlas.. its just a big pig.. so until they make it from ultra lite carbon fiber..lol then I think the VR6 variant or another similar platform will do the job.


strange though since the Q7 offers the 2.0t with quattro. I wonder how that heavy ass thing drives.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

stevehayes01 said:


> As mentioned its 100% a weight factor.. The 2.0 would never have enough to it to allow for towing and awd in the Atlas.. its just a big pig.. so until they make it from ultra lite carbon fiber..lol then I think the VR6 variant or another similar platform will do the job.


Give me a break man. Audi Q7 is pulling 5000 lbs.
XC90 with transverse engine and Haldex is pulling 5,000lbs. 
Atlas is not that heavy compare to its size. In SEL Premium it is 4,772. With 2.0T take out immediately at least 150lbs because of difference in weight of an engine (you will also get better weight distribution). 
Think that first gen. Q7 with 3.0 V6 supercharge engine is 5,400lbs and for example my X5 which is much smaller vehicle then Atlas is 5,200lbs. So, while Atlas is big, for that size of an vehicle is not that heavy. 
Also, take into consideration that Haldex in Atlas adds only 160lbs, which is more or less difference in weight between 2.0T and VR6 (and difference between these two engines could be even larger). So if VW offers 2.0T AWD in SEL Premium package, you will probably have 200lbs lighter vehicle then 3.6 VR6 in that package. For example, 2.0T would do much better job performance wise here in Colorado on high altitude then VR6. For each 1,000ft naturally aspirated engine looses 3% of power. So my house sits at 6,800ft that means that VR6 engine is developing approximately 220 ponies. Turbo, while it has increased lag, does not have such dramatic drop. That is why it is strange not to offer 2.0T in AWD, because people who buy these cars in high country want AWD and less drop in power. 
However, only reason why you do not have 2.0T SEL or SE with AWD is Audi Q7. Motor Trend, before they even properly tested Atlas compared Atlas to Q7 and wether VW is better buy. VW can easily offer 280 lb-ft 2.0T engine in Atlas, but it is deliberate decision not to do it.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Give me a break man. Audi Q7 is pulling 5000 lbs.
> XC90 with transverse engine and Haldex is pulling 5,000lbs.
> Atlas is not that heavy compare to its size. In SEL Premium it is 4,772. With 2.0T take out immediately at least 150lbs because of difference in weight of an engine (you will also get better weight distribution).
> Think that first gen. Q7 with 3.0 V6 supercharge engine is 5,400lbs and for example my X5 which is much smaller vehicle then Atlas is 5,200lbs. So, while Atlas is big, for that size of an vehicle is not that heavy.
> ...


Your negativity used to bug me, but you make such cogent points that my attitude toward you has changed. I agree with everything here and your logic makes sense given the weight changes. Also, I could not agree more about the high altitude piece. Something that I did not consider given I am new to CO.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Give me a break man. Audi Q7 is pulling 5000 lbs.
> XC90 with transverse engine and Haldex is pulling 5,000lbs.
> Atlas is not that heavy compare to its size. In SEL Premium it is 4,772. With 2.0T take out immediately at least 150lbs because of difference in weight of an engine (you will also get better weight distribution).
> Think that first gen. Q7 with 3.0 V6 supercharge engine is 5,400lbs and for example my X5 which is much smaller vehicle then Atlas is 5,200lbs. So, while Atlas is big, for that size of an vehicle is not that heavy.
> ...


the Q7 is actually listed at 4400 lbs max towing capacity for the 2.0T

What was also interesting is while the 2.0T bests the Atlas in acceleration by 0.8 seconds 0-60, they have identical rolling start 5-60 times of 8.2 seconds. That right there really makes me question the 2.0T argument, the turbo lag, less towing, and losing the VR6 soundtrack. Sure you'll get a few MPGs, but I'm not sure that would make it up for me.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> the Q7 is actually listed at 4400 lbs max towing capacity for the 2.0T
> 
> What was also interesting is while the 2.0T bests the Atlas in acceleration by 0.8 seconds 0-60, they have identical rolling start 5-60 times of 8.2 seconds. That right there really makes me question the 2.0T argument, the turbo lag, less towing, and losing the VR6 soundtrack. Sure you'll get a few MPGs, but I'm not sure that would make it up for me.


Well, 4,400lbs is good too. XC 90 is 5,000 so it is not impossible. 
That result is significant because 2.0T has less hp but still competes with VR6. Also, once you start gaining altitude (road trips?) turbo has clear advantage. 
Now as for sound, yes. VR6 has that almost same sound as inline engine, but every time I mention power in VR6 you guys say: this is not sports car. I agree, VR6 sounds bloody good, and 2.5 VR6 TSI will not have that specific induction noise. But, we are talking about practical issues. For example, I ski twice a week. I take 118 mile trip one way to A-Basin and have to cross over Loveland pass which peaks at almost 12,000ft. At that altitude VR6 is 36% down. If VW offered 2.0T in SEL with AWD, I would trade immediately my BMW once warranty expires in 18k (i do not need now Atlas until second kid comes, but once it does i need larger vehicle, so even if they do not offer 2.0T AWD I might get VR6 although it will be annoying driving it in high country due to atmospheric pressure and O2). So for customers in CO, UT, ID, MO generally the West, 2.0T even with 235hp but more importantly 258lb-ft with AWD would be much better practical option. Better MPG is just added bonus. 


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Well, 4,400lbs is good too. XC 90 is 5,000 so it is not impossible.
> That result is significant because 2.0T has less hp but still competes with VR6. Also, once you start gaining altitude (road trips?) turbo has clear advantage.
> Now as for sound, yes. VR6 has that almost same sound as inline engine, but every time I mention power in VR6 you guys say: this is not sports car. I agree, VR6 sounds bloody good, and 2.5 VR6 TSI will not have that specific induction noise. But, we are talking about practical issues. For example, I ski twice a week. I take 118 mile trip one way to A-Basin and have to cross over Loveland pass which peaks at almost 12,000ft. At that altitude VR6 is 36% down. If VW offered 2.0T in SEL with AWD, I would trade immediately my BMW once warranty expires in 18k (i do not need now Atlas until second kid comes, but once it does i need larger vehicle). So for customers in CO, UT, ID, MO generally the West, 2.0T even with 235hp but more importantly 258lb-ft with AWD would be much better practical option. Better MPG is just added bonus.
> 
> ...


Of course the 2.0T will compete with the Atlas even at a horsepower deficit, that's forced induction for you. Peak numbers aren't a great indication of overall performance, area under the curve is a better indicator. So to me, I have two engines, one with a higher peak HP and the other with a torque wave you can ride. I'm saying that it's more sixes than one would think, and 4400 != 5000 lbs. Rolling 5-60 is a better indication of actual driving performance anyways. I like the audi 2.0T, don't get me wrong. I do agree with the altitude argument though, I live in UT and it doesn't bother me that much. As for sounds, what does that have to do with being a sports car or not? I can appreciate the sound of a Cummins, doesn't mean it has to be a "sports" car.

It is quite fun in sport mode though, shifts 1-3 almost get that DSG fart sounds the shifts are crazy quick for a torque converter transmission.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

ice4life said:


> Your negativity used to bug me, but you make such cogent points that my attitude toward you has changed. I agree with everything here and your logic makes sense given the weight changes. Also, I could not agree more about the high altitude piece. Something that I did not consider given I am new to CO.


Thanx. It is discussion. I am just irritated that this vehicle is PERFECT for my needs (expanding family+long trips+a lot of skiing) but VW is deliberately holding off more options when it comes to engines. 
I do not have anything against VR6. But, they should offer 2.0T in SEL and AWD and V6 turbo as an option too. VR6 can stay as option too. FORD does that with Explorer. 


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## rider5000 (Sep 28, 2017)

If VW offered a 2.0T in the SEL premium I would have bought that instead simply for the ability to get more power out of it. So for now I'm stuck here trying to figure out if it is worth it to turbo the VR6 and how much torque the stock trans can handle. Just waiting to see a few people flash the 2.0T when they become more readily available.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

rider5000 said:


> If VW offered a 2.0T in the SEL premium I would have bought that instead simply for the ability to get more power out of it. So for now I'm stuck here trying to figure out if it is worth it to turbo the VR6 and how much torque the stock trans can handle. Just waiting to see a few people flash the 2.0T when they become more readily available.


Yeah that is a nice option, but without any 2.0t s getting the 4motion, that is an auto deal breaker.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

0macman0 said:


> shifts 1-3 almost get that DSG fart sounds the shifts are crazy quick for a torque converter transmission.


Yeah it reminds me so much of my Passat 3.6 DSG. Really fast shifts which is nice, but without the DSG maintenance issues.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

ice4life said:


> Yeah that is a nice option, but without any 2.0t s getting the 4motion, that is an auto deal breaker.


On Motor Week test of VR6 FWD there was some serious tire screeching and torque pull. I cannot imagine how it would do with tuned 2.0T with some 300+ lb-ft. 
If they put AWD in current 2.0T APR will make some serious cash. 


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> On Motor Week test of VR6 FWD there was some serious tire screeching and torque pull. I cannot imagine how it would do with tuned 2.0T with some 300+ lb-ft.
> If they put AWD in current 2.0T APR will make some serious cash.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The screeching in my passat 3.6 was awful. But it also had hankook tires rather than continentials.

And spot on with APR. I'm surprised they're not lobbying VW to make it haha.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> On Motor Week test of VR6 FWD there was some serious tire screeching and torque pull. I cannot imagine how it would do with tuned 2.0T with some 300+ lb-ft.
> If they put AWD in current 2.0T APR will make some serious cash.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is there a video of that online? I’ve wondered how this vehicle would handle sans 4motion


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

ice4life said:


> The screeching in my passat 3.6 was awful. But it also had hankook tires rather than continentials.
> 
> And spot on with APR. I'm surprised they're not lobbying VW to make it haha.


I had numerous performance tires and none, none is even close to Michelin Pilot Super Sport. I had them on CC 2.0T and they seriously defy laws of physics. They were at 3/32 and still cut thru rain like razor. 


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> Is there a video of that online? I’ve wondered how this vehicle would handle sans 4motion
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQmoqaqh638&t=295s


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> Of course the 2.0T will compete with the Atlas even at a horsepower deficit, that's forced induction for you. Peak numbers aren't a great indication of overall performance, area under the curve is a better indicator. So to me, I have two engines, one with a higher peak HP and the other with a torque wave you can ride. I'm saying that it's more sixes than one would think, and 4400 != 5000 lbs. Rolling 5-60 is a better indication of actual driving performance anyways. I like the audi 2.0T, don't get me wrong. I do agree with the altitude argument though, I live in UT and it doesn't bother me that much. As for sounds, what does that have to do with being a sports car or not? I can appreciate the sound of a Cummins, doesn't mean it has to be a "sports" car.
> 
> It is quite fun in sport mode though, shifts 1-3 almost get that DSG fart sounds the shifts are crazy quick for a torque converter transmission.


Point about sound is when I was saying that Atlas could use engine wit more torque, that it is not sports car. 
As for 5-60, yes at controlled conditions and low altitude VR6 will have much better reaction due to the nature of naturally aspirated engine. I am generally not big fan of 4cyl in such big vehicle, but if it delivers torque, then if there is no V6 turbo, fine. 
As for transmission, yeah, they really did good job. You just cannot believe that same transmission is in Toyota Highlander where it is dumbed down for average Toyota driver. I saw first time potential of this transmission in BMW X1 where it is also programmed really good.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Point about sound is when I was saying that Atlas could use engine wit more torque, that it is not sports car.
> As for 5-60, yes at controlled conditions and low altitude VR6 will have much better reaction due to the nature of naturally aspirated engine. I am generally not big fan of 4cyl in such big vehicle, but if it delivers torque, then if there is no V6 turbo, fine.
> As for transmission, yeah, they really did good job. You just cannot believe that same transmission is in Toyota Highlander where it is dumbed down for average Toyota driver. I saw first time potential of this transmission in BMW X1 where it is also programmed really good.


Yeah it is pretty wild that programming can affect the transmission behavior to that degree! And that a slush box can shift that fast!


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> I had numerous performance tires and none, none is even close to Michelin Pilot Super Sport. I had them on CC 2.0T and they seriously defy laws of physics. They were at 3/32 and still cut thru rain like razor.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good to know


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

ice4life said:


> Good to know


It seems that general agreement is that Michelin PSS is best thing after sliced bread 


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## rider5000 (Sep 28, 2017)

I think APR will make a killing on the Atlas as long as the trans can handle the torque. May not be able to use the power from a stop, but rolling traction usually isn't an issue.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

rider5000 said:


> I think APR will make a killing on the Atlas as long as the trans can handle the torque. May not be able to use the power from a stop, but rolling traction usually isn't an issue.


I think the transmission should be fine, and if low speed traction is a concern they could limit the boost or ignition timing until vehicle speed passes a threshold


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## 1.4T (Nov 8, 2017)

We decided to get the Atlas SEL Premium with AWD because the Suburban was totaled in a hit and run accident on the highway and we would save on gas as the engine is V6 compaired to V8 in the Suburban and I had a loyalty discount at the dealer due to my 2 other VW vehicles we bought at the same dealer


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

1.4T said:


> We decided to get the Atlas SEL Premium with AWD because the Suburban was totaled in a hit and run accident on the highway and we would save on gas as the engine is V6 compaired to V8 in the Suburban and I had a loyalty discount at the dealer due to my 2 other VW vehicles we bought at the same dealer


Congrats! You will love it and the AWD is surprisingly capable


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