# Suspension/Chassis Overhaul - Parts, bracing, and what else?



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

I am finally within reach of starting a suspension project on my coupe, I just bought new PSSs and have some stuff but would like advice on what else to get. I have also looked into subframe bracing and am interested, the biggest hurdle would be the extra ordeal to drop the subframes but I'd pick up a cheap welder to make myself feel better. Finally, I figure since I am in there, what else can/should I do? I am sitting at 150k on more or less stock everything (yep, it is terrible) so I want to do this once and do it right. I plan a 1" drop at most and will be running performance all-season 245/40-18.

Parts I have
- Bilstein PSS
- Defcons with poly bushings (I might switch to pre-recall rubber)
- (4) subframe bushings
- (2) of Max's rear control arms
- 19mm rear sway (installed)

Ideas I'm thinking about
- HD strut mounts
- poly bushings all around except for OEM rubber rear bushings on front arms, pre-recall steering bushings (poly has a bad rep there)
- full-metal subframe bushings
- subframe reinforcement (triangulation, maybe some seam-welding)
- different rear springs since I've heard bad things about the rear Bilsteins

So, thoughts or ideas? I also plan for a brake refresh while everything is apart, and a Fluidampr and engine/trans mounts are in the near future as well.


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## MCPaudiTT (Nov 26, 2006)

If the price doesn't scare you off (you have a pretty extensive list there, so it might not!), I would highly recommend PowerFlex PFF85-414 bushes for the rear of the front control arm. They run just under $200, but will last the life of the car. They are a FAR superior product to the urethane bushes PowerFlex originally made for that position. Keep in mind they do have a lifetime warranty from PowerFlex, and they can be rebuilt (replacement parts would be free from PowerFlex, keep your purchase info!).

PM me if you are interested in a set.

The OEM parts in that position just are not durable, so will need to be replaced no matter what as they fail (both the original pre-recall and the solid post-recall designs). As you noted I would not go with the original PowerFlex design. I also would not recommend traditional ball/rose joints as they wear quickly and you would need to pay for replacements. So the overall best long term solution, IMO, is the PFF85-414's...


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

You'll never get a real turbo in there. :laugh:

What is a steering bushing? If your PSS's are new, they revised the rear springs so they aren't beehive shaped, so no issues there.


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## bwdz (Jan 21, 2015)

If you don't mind sharing how much did you pay for the PSS and where did you get them from, Im in the market for a set.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

20v master said:


> You'll never get a real turbo in there. :laugh:
> 
> What is a steering bushing? If your PSS's are new, they revised the rear springs so they aren't beehive shaped, so no issues there.


LOL, I almost spend the coilover money on turbo stuff but it'd be a recipe for disaster to make power with my setup. I meant steering mount. Cool, glad to hear about the springs :thumbup:

Thanks McPaudiTT, I will let you know, I had not seen those new-style bushings.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Steering rack bushing = hype. It wouldn't be a disaster. Just because you have 3 or 400 houses on stock suspension doesn't instantly make your car fly off the road. You've been planning for like 8 years, less planning, more work.


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## [email protected] (Jun 20, 2014)

MCPaudiTT said:


> Keep in mind they do have a lifetime warranty from PowerFlex, and they can be rebuilt (replacement parts would be free from PowerFlex, keep your purchase info!).


Yeah, they eventually pay for themselves when you figure in needing to replace OEM units again down the road.


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## Alcrerion (Feb 16, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Yeah, they eventually pay for themselves when you figure in needing to replace OEM units again down the road.


Not trying to threadjack, but I'm looking to replace my LCA bushings, both front and rear positions and have been considering using this bushing for the rear position.
Do these experience backing out if slightly lowered? I have heard of the other poly design backing out on cars where the LCA isn't perfectly parallel to the road.


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## [email protected] (Jun 20, 2014)

Alcrerion said:


> Not trying to threadjack, but I'm looking to replace my LCA bushings, both front and rear positions and have been considering using this bushing for the rear position.
> Do these experience backing out if slightly lowered? I have heard of the other poly design backing out on cars where the LCA isn't perfectly parallel to the road.


That wouldn't be an issue, especially since these often go on cars of customers who've done other suspension work, including race setups.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Figured I'd bump this for some mild whoring, I finally got to open my Bilsteins this past weekend, daaaamn. I also have multiple bits of bushings and hardware on order, and tonight I grabbed a set of Hankook Ventus S1 noble2 tires for $548, it was a great price for the sizing and everything I've read puts them right near the top of performance all-seasons. I plan to order the rest I need ASAP and am shooting for mid-June for the build :thumbup:


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> That wouldn't be an issue, especially since these often go on cars of customers who've done other suspension work, including race setups.


Do you have any pics of them installed into control arms?


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## MCPaudiTT (Nov 26, 2006)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Do you have any pics of them installed into control arms?


I don't have any photo's (my car is out of the state), but I have installed about 6 sets of these. The metal "shell" presses in to the arm, they are solid pressed in and won't be backing out. I need to put a set in my other car, will take some photos when I do. I guess I may do that this weekend, as it has some knocking going on that I think is due to worn rear OEM bushes at the rear position (this car has the prototype DEFCONs installed in the front position, with OEM pre-recall rubber bushes, since 2005).


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

l88m22vette said:


> ...I finally got to open my Bilsteins this past weekend, daaaamn...



I had the same reaction when I first opened my PSS's... love them so far :thumbup:


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

How do they ride so far? I expect my whole setup to be a lot more dialed in than stock, but I am hoping to keep at least some of the grand touring feel for typical driving and roadtrips. Also, McPaudiTT, I'll be PMing you soon, I'm definitely going to pick up a set of those :thumbup:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

l88m22vette said:


> How do they ride so far? I expect my whole setup to be a lot more dialed in than stock, but I am hoping to keep at least some of the grand touring feel for typical driving and roadtrips. Also, McPaudiTT, I'll be PMing you soon, I'm definitely going to pick up a set of those :thumbup:


PSS's ride almost like stock, not harsh at all but refined.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I had a problem with my PSS9 rear springs then I did something strange- I read the directions. They provide a specific spring orientation that got rid of my binding issues and I'm now running PSS9 rear springs again. :thumbup:





20v master said:


> PSS's ride almost like stock, not harsh at all but refined.


Stock. As in stock non-busted suspension that very few of us have experienced 




20v master said:


> You've been planning for like 8 years, less planning, more work.


I'll join you in the TT forum motivational speaker roll. Steps to completion:

1. Apply for credit cards
2. Order parts
3. Put car together
4. Pay off credit cards
5. Credit score goes up


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

l88m22vette said:


> How do they ride so far? I expect my whole setup to be a lot more dialed in than stock, but I am hoping to keep at least some of the grand touring feel for typical driving and roadtrips. Also, McPaudiTT, I'll be PMing you soon, I'm definitely going to pick up a set of those :thumbup:


I had Vogltlands beforehand - they use Koni yellow dampers... rode nice but the quality was terrible - more comfort oriented than the PSS's which are stiff but not harsh. I didn't have the PSS's on the road long or have a chance to push them so I can't give much feedback... back on the road soon and will see though.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Doooglasss said:


> I had a problem with my PSS9 rear springs then I did something strange- I read the directions. They provide a specific spring orientation that got rid of my binding issues and I'm now running PSS9 rear springs again. :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1) You mean the orientation with the spring end on the bottom of the spring towards the rear of the car? I have them in this orientation and still get bind. I've tried rotating them in increments with no success.

2) It's not my fault you like to restore the rough ones. :laugh:

3) That's a plan for winning.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Tires came it and I can't wait to get them on, I have a feeling these 45-aspects are going to look beefy! Apparently I also got the XL version, I had ordered the normal version of the Ventus so those were probably superseded. They were dropped off with three shipping bands holding them together in pairs and shipping labels stuck on the tread, no boxes or anything, so about as easy to get stolen as possible. Recommendation: be home for tire deliveries, or get them shipped to the place 

Tired, crappy 235/40-18 vs new shoe 235/45-18


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

For track/street use for the front control arms, delrin/uhmw front bushings and R32 rears work the best.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

DeckManDubs said:


> For track/street use for the front control arms, delrin/uhmw front bushings and R32 rears work the best.


In my experience the r32 bushings do not tolerate a lot of drop. I had a set in my old mk4 and they tore somewhat quickly from the drop. Has anyone else had this experience with the TT?


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> In my experience the r32 bushings do not tolerate a lot of drop. I had a set in my old mk4 and they tore somewhat quickly from the drop. Has anyone else had this experience with the TT?


Providing you do not go lower than static having the control arms parallel to the ground then they are fine. Lowering below this point increases bump steer, binding, scrubbing and general crappy handling. This has been proven almost 30 years ago with the first Shine Racing stuff for the MacPherson strut setups. As much as a of a PITA as Dick could be, he knew how to make cars handle. 

FYI R32 bushings last me 20-30 track days with no issues....wheel bearings are another issue.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Wanted to bump for an inventory update and figure out all the crap I still need, think I'm surprisingly close to having everything. I've split this up by front and back, I'm debating getting roadster subframes to just swap the full front and rear assemblies when I do the suspension. Also, do anyone else have input on bracing ideas? I'd love if someone had good underside shots of a TT on a lift...

General parts - full replacement set of suspension hardware, PSS coilovers, 4 subframe bushings (do I need 6?)

Front - HD bearings and poly bushings, new balljoints, tierod ends, Defcon steering inserts with Powerflex bushings
Needed: poly steering rack bushing, PFF85-414 rear bushings

Rear - New spring seats, endlinks, Powerflex upper lateral link and trailing arm bushings, MadMax lower lateral links
Needed: ??

Front/rear diagrams for reference:
















(Jim Ellis Audi)


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

There are only 4 subframe bushings in the front, and I wouldn't mess with the steering rack bushing unless yours is shot.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

And we have OEM metal bushings in the back, so I'm covered, cool. Fine, I'll skip the steering bushing


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Bump for a few small things, last night I ordered Whiteline caster correction bushings for the rear of the front a-arms but after more research I'm questioning the purchase, blame a few beers and enjoying the g/f being out of town for the weekend :laugh: 

I also bought a Eurosport lower tie bar for the front suspension from a partout, I will pick up four 1J0 505 365 N (early rose joint bushings) for the rear lateral links, and I'm debating using Polo strut mounts instead of the Powerflex ones, opinions? Finally, I've been reading http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2527106-MkIV-sub-frame-stiffeners-lower-stress-tie-bars and a few links mentioned, good reading but now I'm on the hunt for a cheap roadster front subframe as well. It never ends...


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## Boulderhead (Oct 21, 2012)

Had my powerflex for about two years now. Can't really say how they are holding up as the struts haven't been out recently, but I have no complaints except they were hard to find when I was looking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Last update before the build because I just picked up an early roadster subframe with all the goodies, $148 shipped was a steal  I also just picked up the heavy-duty OEM rear A-arm bushings to err on the side of comfort (in this small instance), and a Powerflex steering bushing - it has good reviews! I looked high and low for the early rear rose joints but they are nowhere to be found, they had been superseded and NOS was probably cleared out years ago, oh well. Next post involves wrenching, maybe for the birthday weekend umpkin:


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