# Transmission???



## bvgoosedd (Mar 5, 2009)

ok first question is what is the Best clutch kit out right now?? i am stuck between south bend and clutchmaster. this is for a gt3076r TT 02M. also how much should i be excepting to get my transmission rebuilt????


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## PLAYED TT (Oct 17, 2010)

Not sure on the price, but my buddy owns a shop and he always uses clutchmasters


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Why do you need to get your trans rebuilt? That would determine cost mostly. You could crack it open yourself and inspect it- clean everything in laquer thinner then reassemble for the cost of the thinner. That's what I did for a buddy recently $50 + a $60 busted bearing (R32 trans notoriously does this).

Also I went with a clutchnet and I'm very happy and I think were making similar power. I could post details if you'd like. The guy who built my car, Ed @ Force Fed Engineering recommends and uses clutchmasters for all of his cars as well, I bought my clutch setup before speaking with him though.

I don't think there's any real "best" clutch kit out there, it's just what people have come to personally trust over time. Spec has earned a bad reputation, but they stand behind their broken products. If you search any clutch manufacturer on this forum you're going to come up with mixed opinions.


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## bvgoosedd (Mar 5, 2009)

i have a clutchnet now too without flywheel tho. i am using stock flywheel, i do like it. it's just that i wanna to do it once and do it right. reason that i need to rebuild is transmission won't let me shift if i am reving past 5k. which really suck with a 3076r. i was told it was something like the troque convertor?? so i figured why not just have it rebuilt when i do the clutch. i had my clutchnet for a little over 20k miles. and still good. but again i just want to make sure that when everything is done i have no issues, so i can start doing more for power. i want 450awhp by the end of 2011.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I remember your issue now from awhile back.

I think I pointed out then that clutch net clutches cannot be used with OEM flywheels...

I doubt there's something wrong with your transmission. Do you know which clutchnet disc and PP you have specifically ?

Torque converters replace a clutch assembly in Automatic transmissions. Your car doesn't have one so whoever gave you that advice has no idea what they are talking about.


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## PLAYED TT (Oct 17, 2010)

So all you would need then is one of their flywheels. If the tranny is still good I would not spend the $$$ to rebuild it. How many miles are in it now?


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## bvgoosedd (Mar 5, 2009)

car has 122k clutchnet has 20k on it. and the kit that i have didn't need flywheel. i thougth the same thing but i called fourseasons and clutchnet and they said the kit i have shouldn't be doing that. there are no grinds at all. so i don't think tranny is shot. but there is def something wrong. i had the clutch slave go bad so i even had everything looked at again. by another shop too. that shop thought it was the clutch slave not disengauging. but nope i was so pissed cus i should have just had it rebuilt then


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

bvgoosedd said:


> ...the kit that i have didn't need flywheel. ...


I'm afraid you have no idea how a manual transmission works. Do some research.


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

i have a clutchnet stg 3+ with steel FW ialso added ARP FW blots and Ring Gear bolts to help me sleep a lil better at night from 4season tuning

i looked at Clutchnet and clutchmasters extensively, the only thing that was considerable for me was stage 4 CM with fidanza. the CM is either 4 or 6 puck clutch which makes them kinda rough and definitely not street friendly. also 
'flower" style clutches have a shorter life span most clutches.

i had a 5 puck w/ fidanza flywheel on a mazda and it was nice, held the power, really rough in traffic tho, but compared to the one in my car now, it was brutal, not even in the same league


clutchnet stg3+ w/ ast FW works great:thumbup: it can take any launch at any rpm. i can dump the clutch or downshift into any gear- it chirps the tires and lifts the front end.

Some things to consider :
-- sometimes in bumper to bumper highway traffic, the clutch engages kinda rough if i under rev it or not paying attention. -- 

--- the clutch engages right away--- i mean like right away, if i move my foot just a **** hair, the clutch will start engaging, so on a steep hill while stopped in traffic/red light, etc. it can get tricky lol. 

all in all, for the price, i think i got a crazy deal, it works as advertised, the only warning i issue is that you really have to be on the ball when using this clutch and the CM even more. these clutches are not forgiving to mistake, one little error and you could stall or worse end up in some1's trunk. the car really leaps forward with a purpose 

on the plus side, i havent met a person yet even if i tell them its a stg3+ clutch who can take my car outa a parking spot and not stall it at least twice. :laugh::laugh:


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

bvgoosedd said:


> i just want to make sure that when everything is done i have no issues, so i can start doing more for power. i want 450awhp by the end of 2011.


its not Horsepower that willl make the clutch slip or fail. 
'
the really killer of transmissions and clutch systems is Torque. 

another thing too, from what i recall after speaking with 4seasons, is that the clutchnet Pressusre plates was bolted down in a different orientation that the OEM setup and thats why an aftermarket FW was required. ---- this is going just off memory, but it was something along those lines.


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## bvgoosedd (Mar 5, 2009)

i mean i can use the stock dual mass flywheel. and i did talk to both the maker of the clutch kit and the seller. and i though the same thing that a torque convertor was for a auto but then again the f*cking clutch slave cylinder in inside the tranny in our cars maybe i thought audi just did wierd sh*t. I do love my car but it's the biggest pain in the ass. i have had every issue that TTs could possibly have. i am just too far in to just sell the car. if someone offered me 10k i'd let it go. i guess the main problem is i got wine taste with beer money lol. but i don't know how are car works.  I was just asking for suggestions

if i remember i have a 6 puck unsprug with a red pressure plate. on thier website it even says they make one or stock flywheel and one for aluminum flywheel only Check it out. and yea i know this bad boy is touchy. I can pretty much bet anyone that hasn't drivin my car that they will stall it at least twice. i am use to it now tho. anyone know how CM is compared?

http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=22039&cat=0&page=1


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

DurTTy said:


> another thing too, from what i recall after speaking with 4seasons, is that the clutchnet Pressusre plates was bolted down in a different orientation that the OEM setup and thats why an aftermarket FW was required. ---- this is going just off memory, but it was something along those lines.


EXACTLY what I was saying Durtty... You need to flip the clutch disc so the extruding center section faces the flywheel. The clutches that clutchnet makes for stock flywheels are stock full spring disc replacements- not six puck clutches. BVgoosedd You're information must be wrong here... if I were you I would pull the trans myself and install the correct flywheel with everything in the right orientation. It's an easy job, save yourself the labor charges and learn a lot about the car at the same time. You'll just need a Bentley manual off amazon.

I run a Spec billet steel SMF FW # SV81s (13 lbs.) w/ my clutchnet red PP & solid unsprung disc and I don't find the engagement to be jerky or quick and never have trouble daily driving it...


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

bvgoosedd said:


> i mean i can use the stock dual mass flywheel. and i did talk to both the maker of the clutch kit and the seller. and i though the same thing that a torque convertor was for a auto but then again the f*cking clutch slave cylinder in inside the tranny in our cars maybe i thought audi just did wierd sh*t. I do love my car but it's the biggest pain in the ass. i have had every issue that TTs could possibly have. i am just too far in to just sell the car. if someone offered me 10k i'd let it go. i guess the main problem is i got wine taste with beer money lol. but i don't know how are car works.  I was just asking for suggestions
> 
> if i remember i have a 6 puck unsprug with a red pressure plate. on thier website it even says they make one or stock flywheel and one for aluminum flywheel only Check it out. and yea i know this bad boy is touchy. I can pretty much bet anyone that hasn't drivin my car that they will stall it at least twice. i am use to it now tho. anyone know how CM is compared?
> 
> http://www.clutchnet.com/product.php?productid=22039&cat=0&page=1


your link doesnt work, and if your oem flywheel needs replacing y dont you contact 4season, if you got your clutch there, and see what flywheel they got for the clutch you purchased. 

you may still be able to salvage your setup, 20k is still not that much driving (depending on how you drive :laugh::laugh


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

I think it's the clutch that's causing the car not to go into gear at redline. as soon as i installed my CM stg4, this happened to me. it's been like that for 30k now. if i pause in my shift, it goes in. nver grinds. but try doing it fast at all and forget it. it basically will do it in any gear. 

about to put in the Sachs Sport/Southbend and hope to hell it's gone.


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

M this 1! said:


> I think it's the clutch that's causing the car not to go into gear at redline. as soon as i installed my CM stg4, this happened to me. it's been like that for 30k now. if i pause in my shift, it goes in. nver grinds. but try doing it fast at all and forget it. it basically will do it in any gear.
> 
> about to put in the Sachs Sport/Southbend and hope to hell it's gone.


yes the SRE clutch and flywheel is THE BEST, but pricy 

SRE - Sachs Raqcing Engineering, it is purchased in Euros and only in europe and shipped over to NA. 

good luck with southbend, liek all the clutches we have available here in NA, they are all hit or miss. 

M1's review of the CM STG 4 was a reason why i didnt go with CM setup. 

CM Twin disc Clutches are aparently the ones to go with if you choose CM, but for the price, tehre are better clutches out there


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

How do you guys live with a clutch that won't change gears at a high RPM or very quickly? That would be out of my car and returned to the manufacturer after one day of dealing with that....


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

DougLoBue said:


> How do you guys live with a clutch that won't change gears at a high RPM or very quickly? That would be out of my car and returned to the manufacturer after one day of dealing with that....


I agree with doug, he has a point. 

both Clutchnet and Clutchmasters should have a Warranty.


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## omerkm1 (Feb 23, 2010)

Has anyone tried running the southbend clutch with 9lb flywheel from AWE Tuning?


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## omerkm1 (Feb 23, 2010)

DougLoBue said:


> EXACTLY what I was saying Durtty... You need to flip the clutch disc so the extruding center section faces the flywheel. The clutches that clutchnet makes for stock flywheels are stock full spring disc replacements- not six puck clutches. BVgoosedd You're information must be wrong here... if I were you I would pull the trans myself and install the correct flywheel with everything in the right orientation. It's an easy job, save yourself the labor charges and learn a lot about the car at the same time. You'll just need a Bentley manual off amazon.
> 
> I run a Spec billet steel SMF FW # SV81s (13 lbs.) w/ my clutchnet red PP & solid unsprung disc and I don't find the engagement to be jerky or quick and never have trouble daily driving it...



Does your flywheel have the super light flywheel rattle? I was told that the southbend 9lb flywheel rattled because it was so light?


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

omerkm1 said:


> Does your flywheel have the super light flywheel rattle? I was told that the southbend 9lb flywheel rattled because it was so light?


any single mass FW steel or aluminum will "rattle" at idle. 

its unavoidable. the lighter the FW the more "rattle" you will get.


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## SoloGLI (Jan 20, 2005)

I just installed a Southbend Stage 2 (Daily) clutch and 19lb SM flywheel and I love it so far, granted I've only put about 170 miles on it, so I can't tell how it feels when getting on it. But it feels pretty close to stock, except the clutch engages a bit quicker than stock. Although 19lbs isn't super lightweight, because its lighter than stock and is a Single Mass flywheel, there is a very faint chatter that is tuned out with music, and hardly even heard outside of the car. After talking with several people who have used both CM and Southbend, I felt that the best recommendation was to get the southbend clutch AND flywheel, because they are made to work together, as opposed to opting to reuse the stock flywheel (which I've heard has issues with both CM and Southbend).


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

SoloGLI said:


> I just installed a Southbend Stage 2 (Daily) clutch and 19lb SM flywheel and I love it so far, granted I've only put about 170 miles on it, so I can't tell how it feels when getting on it. But it feels pretty close to stock, except the clutch engages a bit quicker stock. Although 19lbs isn't super lightweight, because its lighter than stock and is a Single Mass flywheel, there is a very faint chatter that is tuned out with music, and hardly even heard outside of the car. After talking with several people who have used both CM and Southbend, I felt that the best recommendation was to get the southbend clutch AND flywheel, because they are made to work together, as opposed to opting to reuse the stock flywheel (which I've heard has issues with both CM and Southbend).


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: solid 


SoloGLi has a point, if you spending the money on your car and getting in the field of performance clutches, dont skimp on a FW, buy a complete kit designed to work together.


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## omerkm1 (Feb 23, 2010)

SoloGLI said:


> I just installed a Southbend Stage 2 (Daily) clutch and 19lb SM flywheel and I love it so far, granted I've only put about 170 miles on it, so I can't tell how it feels when getting on it. But it feels pretty close to stock, except the clutch engages a bit quicker than stock. Although 19lbs isn't super lightweight, because its lighter than stock and is a Single Mass flywheel, there is a very faint chatter that is tuned out with music, and hardly even heard outside of the car. After talking with several people who have used both CM and Southbend, I felt that the best recommendation was to get the southbend clutch AND flywheel, because they are made to work together, as opposed to opting to reuse the stock flywheel (which I've heard has issues with both CM and Southbend).



I am emailing back and forth with [email protected] about a clutch to match the single mass flywheel he sells. I wonder if it is the same one you are using?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

It's not so much about the weight of the flywheel but the fact that it's single mass will change how the clutch feels. Yes the heavier the flywheel the less chatter you will have, but, you will ALWAYS have chatter with a single mass flywheel so you shouldn't buy one kit over another due to weight. I'd buy due to strength: billet steel > steel > aluminum. 

A dual mass flywheel is actually two parts and has a lot of give to it. I wish I had one in front of me to take a video of or something. The part that attaches to the crank (motor) is the heavy side while the side that interacts with the clutch disc is on something like a set of springs that allows it to move a bit in either direction. This allows the driver a margin of error and eliminates chatter.

A single mass flywheel is just that, a solid piece of metal. There is no give so it requires you to be more precise in all of your clutch interactions. A solid disc clutch (as opposed to a sprung center unit) will require even more precision. A puck style disc will require the same precision but will also introduce an on/off effect where literally the clutch is fully engaged in a millimeter but it's a very vague feeling of the pedal- there's no feedback.

When driving a friends car with a puck style disc expect to burn a lot of clutch if you even think about being gentle to it- those are made for FAST engagement and to be beat on. You can't try to find the point and slip it in, you just let off.


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## omerkm1 (Feb 23, 2010)

DougLoBue said:


> It's not so much about the weight of the flywheel but the fact that it's single mass will change how the clutch feels. Yes the heavier the flywheel the less chatter you will have, but, you will ALWAYS have chatter with a single mass flywheel so you shouldn't buy one kit over another due to weight. I'd buy due to strength: billet steel > steel > aluminum.
> 
> A dual mass flywheel is actually two parts and has a lot of give to it. I wish I had one in front of me to take a video of or something. The part that attaches to the crank (motor) is the heavy side while the side that interacts with the clutch disc is on something like a set of springs that allows it to move a bit in either direction. This allows the driver a margin of error and eliminates chatter.
> 
> ...


I will go with a single mass no matter what, but I am wondering if your autox and twisty road driving, is there such a thing as too light? Would something around 15-20lbs be better than 10lb or less? Either way you save a bunch of weight over the stock dual mass flywheel.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I'm not sure what you're trying to ask there? The clutch works the same going straight as going through turns. To reassure you I thoroughly beat on my car through twisty neighborhood backroads all night without an issue. I'll hang between 5k- 7k all night tossing shifts up and down without a problem.

Like I was saying before, weight is not an object here, but durability is. Go with something that is strong. I use the Spec SV81s and it's 13 lbs. billet steel- I love it.


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## omerkm1 (Feb 23, 2010)

DougLoBue said:


> I'm not sure what you're trying to ask there? The clutch works the same going straight as going through turns. To reassure you I thoroughly beat on my car through twisty neighborhood backroads all night without an issue. I'll hang between 5k- 7k all night tossing shifts up and down without a problem.
> 
> Like I was saying before, weight is not an object here, but durability is. Go with something that is strong. I use the Spec SV81s and it's 13 lbs. billet steel- I love it.



I meant the flywheel, if 9lbs was too light for daily driving. But I get your point. Thanks for the advice.


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## bvgoosedd (Mar 5, 2009)

can someone suggest A website and what clutchkit with flywheel i should order??? This is my setup. GT3076r made 328awhp 310tq. i am not done with my car so i will need room to grow as well. I use my car as a DD. i need a site that has a special or sometime. will be buying a kit like within a week. thanks


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## SoloGLI (Jan 20, 2005)

bvgoosedd said:


> can someone suggest A website and what clutchkit with flywheel i should order??? This is my setup. GT3076r made 328awhp 310tq. i am not done with my car so i will need room to grow as well. I use my car as a DD. i need a site that has a special or sometime. will be buying a kit like within a week. thanks


Just call Southbend directly, and they will tell you which setup works best for your application. They will probably recommend the Stage 2 (Daily) as its rated up to 400wtq, but they have tons of options.


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

SoloGLI said:


> Just call Southbend directly, and they will tell you which setup works best for your application. They will probably recommend the Stage 2 (Daily) as its rated up to 400wtq, but they have tons of options.


BE VERY WEARY WITH SOUTHBEND'S CLAIM ON POWER HANDLING

HERE IS ARTICLE ONE

HERE IS ARTICLE TWO


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## SoloGLI (Jan 20, 2005)

DurTTy said:


> BE VERY WEARY WITH SOUTHBEND'S CLAIM ON POWER HANDLING
> 
> HERE IS ARTICLE ONE
> 
> HERE IS ARTICLE TWO


First of all, those aren't articles, they are threads on Vortex, which have mostly a bunch of people with little to no knowledge of what's going on, and for the few people that do, those are a small small percentage of the total # of clutches being sold. Everything that is manufactured in this world will have situations where something wasn't done 100% correctly, just the way it is. Secondly, every clutch manufacturer has stories like that, but when it comes to mechanical objects, such as cars, there are plenty of variables that come into play. So I take those threads, just like 90% of the threads on vortex or any message board with a grain of salt.


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## omerkm1 (Feb 23, 2010)

SoloGLI said:


> First of all, those aren't articles, they are threads on Vortex, which have mostly a bunch of people with little to no knowledge of what's going on, and for the few people that do, those are a small small percentage of the total # of clutches being sold. Everything that is manufactured in this world will have situations where something wasn't done 100% correctly, just the way it is. Secondly, every clutch manufacturer has stories like that, but when it comes to mechanical objects, such as cars, there are plenty of variables that come into play. So I take those threads, just like 90% of the threads on vortex or any message board with a grain of salt.



There is a tuner close to me that wont do business with SPEC because of something that happened on a forum. They only recommend Southbend. I think that you will find that something has happened with every company out there.


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

lol an article is any written material puplished with the intent to be read. 

but aside from that Foffa went through a lot of clutches not to mention the guy has gone through a lot of setups. 

BUT, yea, skip through most of the uneducated garbage on that article and look at the destruction caused to the lutch set ups and repair bills that followed.


i think its a good guidline to people looking for source material.


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## SoloGLI (Jan 20, 2005)

DurTTy said:


> lol an article is any written material puplished with the intent to be read.
> 
> but aside from that Foffa went through a lot of clutches not to mention the guy has gone through a lot of setups.
> 
> ...


If look up the definition of "article", that is not one of them. Not sure what you think "Published" means, but posting on the internet is not "Published" in the sense of writing articles. These would be considered editorials, which are much different, since they are all opinion based, not fact based. 

But enough arguing semantics, I think people realize all clutch companies have parts that go bad, some companies deal with it better than others. The odds of your clutch shattering as bad as Foffa's or some of the other clutches, probably aren't very high, so just do some research and make an educated purchase.


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

SoloGLI said:


> If look up the definition of "article", that is not one of them. Not sure what you think "Published" means, but posting on the internet is not "Published" in the sense of writing articles. These would be considered editorials, which are much different, since they are all opinion based, not fact based.
> 
> But enough arguing semantics, I think people realize all clutch companies have parts that go bad, some companies deal with it better than others. The odds of your clutch shattering as bad as Foffa's or some of the other clutches, probably aren't very high, so just do some research and make an educated purchase.


is that American definition or Canadian  lol 

but yea, its buyer beware. dotn just click spend and hope for the best


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## wrparrish (Nov 13, 2008)

I sent you a PM.

Ive got a brand new SB Stage 3 Endurance Kit (485 Ft/ Lb's with hd material ) available for a good deal since your local.
:beer:


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