# Really poor start ups since I have gotten the C2 Tune (not a knock on C2)



## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

I just want to start this thread by saying this is not a knock thread on C2!!!! They are awesome guys and have great support (I am talking to them now trying to solve this problem) but just hopped that someone else may have similar issues and have a fix. I am stumped right now.

From the beginning:
I got my ecu in successfully on Monday but today I got 3 P0101 codes regarding my maf. I replaced my maf three weeks ago and with the stock tune had no issues now they have come back.

Today is Friday, but I started to have issues on Wed. I seem to have another issue on top of the P0101 code and I don’t think it is related but it is to do with the start, usually only cold starts.

I put my key in the ignition and then wait a 3-5 seconds (let the solenoids do their thing etc..) then after all of that I start the car. On the stock tune the car started fine. Only an random cold starts would the car sound like a sputter, it would do that once or twice I could easily notice it with the exhaust and how the tones would fluctuate. Again, that would happen probably 1 in 10 cold starts randomly. It started about a month prior to the tune. Now, with the tune on the cold starts it is EVERY time. And not only that, it is much worse. Those sputters happen very frequently and now im getting very worrisome! This morning was the worse it has ever been. The car started and went to the proper warm up RPM for about ¾ of a second then the RPMs dropped to about 1200 and the car almost died I tried to blip the throttle and nothing happened and it sat there sputter badly for about 2-3 seconds. The RPM came up for about ¾ of a second again then dropped to normal idle.

I took a video of the start yesterday (and this sadly is not that bad one). You can hear the sputtering just after I start the car. It may not be too clear but the RPMs in this one did not seem to change much but instead of it being a constant tone, it almost sounds like the car is stuttering.
[video]http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6175093166/[/video]

I changed the spark plugs less then 10K ago and I got a new MAF 3 weeks ago. I don’t know what it could be.

Any suggestions?... I don't know if it is misfiring or what... i don't feel the car really shaking when it does this (except this morning when it almost died). Normally it feels fine, just sounds odd. Warm starts seem fine and it seems to run fine. I'm lost for ideas. I just saw a thread about the upper timing chain and where it skipped etc... hope that did not happen nothing is under warranty anymore (I don't think).

UPDATE:
I have noticed over the past couple of days, the problematic starts (the ones with the sputters) only happen on true cold starts (and much worse with AC on). When the car is warm or even every so slightly warm it start fine. Like today, the car was sitting there for about 4-5 hours I get to the car and i look at the temp needle, and it is every so slightly above 50C and the car started like it use to always, perfectly fine.


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

hmmm, something that was going bad before the tune, and now, it got worse. 
i am going to try to find something regarding "Cold Start" in the Bentley manual. Will let you know what I was able to dig up.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

eatrach said:


> hmmm, something that was going bad before the tune, and now, it got worse.
> i am going to try to find something regarding "Cold Start" in the Bentley manual. Will let you know what I was able to dig up.


Thank you! I appreciate it!


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

just wondering... are all your connections properly sealed and secured? no vacuum leaks..?

if possible, try going back to stock SW to see if it does change...

because maybe the fact that it got worse with the tune is just coincidental and not a cause.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

thygreyt said:


> just wondering... are all your connections properly sealed and secured? no vacuum leaks..?
> 
> if possible, try going back to stock SW to see if it does change...
> 
> because maybe the fact that it got worse with the tune is just coincidental and not a cause.


stock SW? The only vacuum leak i think would be the vacuum hose at the throttle body. Oh and of course those PITA secondary air intake hoses... Man i just want to get rid of those.

That is certainly a possibility. I will double check the engine bay tonight.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i meant, try going back to stock ECU as well. (get rid of C2).

temporarily of course. The idea is to rule them out as a cause or an "accelerator" of the cause


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

thygreyt said:


> i meant, try going back to stock ECU as well. (get rid of C2).
> 
> temporarily of course. The idea is to rule them out as a cause or an "accelerator" of the cause


There is no way I can go back to stock unless I take it back out and get them to flash I back to stock...(if they can even do that)


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

ys, they can


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

thygreyt said:


> ys, they can


I don't know if i can be without my car for another week... Could it be the fuel pump or filter?...


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## judas9mm (Mar 6, 2009)

Try starting the car with the oil dipstick removed. If it sounds the same you have a vacuum leak somewhere.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

I just pulled these codes:

Sunday,25,September,2011,16:01:24:64655
VCDS Version: Release 10.6.4

Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-032-BGP.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 07K 906 032 AR HW: Hardware No 
Component and/or Version: 2.5l R5/4V G 91Y1
Software Coding: 0000001
Work Shop Code: WSC 00001 000 00000
VCID: 79D725C94949
3 Faults Found:

000369 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1: System Too Lean 
P0171 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 135838 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 18:56:56

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1911 /min
Load: 41.6 %
Speed: 73.0 km/h
Temperature: 88.0°C
Temperature: 33.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.970 V

001290 - Cold Start Idle Air Control System: Malfunction 
P050A - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 135843 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 08:00:07

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1150 /min
Load: 85.1 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 27.0°C
Temperature: 26.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224 V

000257 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70): Implausible Signal 
P0101 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 135877 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 19:34:46

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2100 /min
Load: 39.6 %
Speed: 80.0 km/h
Temperature: 89.0°C
Temperature: 30.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.970 V


Readiness: 0000 1001

Fuel trims Measure Block (032) : Idle: 0.4% Partial: 0.5%

The only one I can see a direct correlation is the middle one cold start.

But I have no clue why I got the bank 1 lean....?


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

System too lean points to an air leak but theres other codes. Spray vacuum lines with carb cleaner listen for idle changes. MAF communication problems and the ammount of trouble you seemed to have on golfmkv.com over the past few months I'm gonna bet you have a damaged wire or loose connection. I've seen you go through everything in a reasonable order and at the point I'd be highly suspect of the wiring.

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G Shift using Tapatalk


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

System too lean is either an air leak or your MAF reading poorly due to an electrical issue

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G Shift using Tapatalk


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

BlackRabbit2point5 said:


> System too lean points to an air leak but theres other codes. Spray vacuum lines with carb cleaner listen for idle changes. MAF communication problems and the ammount of trouble you seemed to have on golfmkv.com over the past few months I'm gonna bet you have a damaged wire or loose connection. I've seen you go through everything in a reasonable order and at the point I'd be highly suspect of the wiring.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Evo 4G Shift using Tapatalk


Thanks, yea, i've tried a lot lol. I don't trust myself to replace the wirring and connector, i'll look into that. 
From my past experiences when you pull off a vacuum line the cars idle changes anyways. I know it does not like that . The only vacuum line I know if is the one on the top of the throttle body...

If there is an air leak... how does that make it lean? Wouldn't that decrease the AFR and make it more rich? 

Oh and C2 wants me to send the ecu back as well


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

i've been dealing with the P0171 code for a while now (system too lean bank 1). my MAF was replaced as well and didn't fix the problem. i had VW run a pressure test and they found no air leaks at all. there are other potential issues that will cause this code, including low fuel pressure from the fuel pump (or a dirty fuel filter), or a bad fuel injector. both of these problems are rare though. the other possibility is a bad PCV, which sucks because ours is built in to the valve cover as one single part. 

realistically if you haven't had a pressure test run on the car i would get this done to rule out the possibility of air leaks before looking into anything else.

are you running an aftermarket intake setup? is it possible that your MAF wiring was stretched or pulled too tight at one point in time? your car will start up and run like sh*t if the MAF wiring is bad, or if the MAF harness isn't fully plugged in. same with the hoses connected to your air intake setup, if there's a leak it will cause the car to have a rough idle and possibly startup issues as well.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

LampyB said:


> are you running an aftermarket intake setup? is it possible that your MAF wiring was stretched or pulled too tight at one point in time? your car will start up and run like sh*t if the MAF wiring is bad, or if the MAF harness isn't fully plugged in. same with the hoses connected to your air intake setup, if there's a leak it will cause the car to have a rough idle and possibly startup issues as well.


Thanks for the insight.

And yes, I have the BSH CAI, and it is a possibility that they got stretched. Now, can i run over to the dealer and ask them to replace the wiring (and do a pressure test) as I don't trust myself with that and I'd like to get as much of it replaced as possible. I'll stop by and see what they can do. There is a local shop that deals with German cars as well. I'll call them too.


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

Anile_eight said:


> Thanks for the insight.
> 
> And yes, I have the BSH CAI, and it is a possibility that they got stretched. Now, can i run over to the dealer and ask them to replace the wiring (and do a pressure test) as I don't trust myself with that and I'd like to get as much of it replaced as possible. I'll stop by and see what they can do. There is a local shop that deals with German cars as well. I'll call them too.


Please PLEASE when you send in your ECU, go to the Download page on our website; print and fill out the SERVICE/MAIL IN form. This is very important so we can have all the important information with the ECU when it arrives. We receive multiple ECU's a day, and without a way to track the information associated with each service request, it delays the turnaround time.

So please provide all the requested contact and setup information when you send in your ECU for service. That way we can get your concerns addressed immediately, and shipped back out to you quickly.

Hot link to Download Form
http://www.c2motorsports.com/images/forms/Service_mail-in-form.pdf

C2


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

C2Motorsports said:


> Please PLEASE when you send in your ECU, go to the Download page on our website; print and fill out the SERVICE/MAIL IN form. This is very important so we can have all the important information with the ECU when it arrives. We receive multiple ECU's a day, and without a way to track the information associated with each service request, it delays the turnaround time.
> 
> So please provide all the requested contact and setup information when you send in your ECU for service. That way we can get your concerns addressed immediately, and shipped back out to you quickly.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link. I'll next day air most likely on Thursday so you'll get it Friday.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

hey just a reminder to please keep this thread updated as you progress on getting the codes resolved. also, when you take the car in to the dealer i wouldn't just ask them to replace the MAF wiring...i'd have them run an electrical test on the MAF to see if the wiring is actually bad first...


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

LampyB said:


> hey just a reminder to please keep this thread updated as you progress on getting the codes resolved. also, when you take the car in to the dealer i wouldn't just ask them to replace the MAF wiring...i'd have them run an electrical test on the MAF to see if the wiring is actually bad first...


Good thoughts on that! I didn't think about that. I did replace the maf 4 weeks ago though... So i really don't know what it could be. 

I'll keep this updated. Again, thanks for all of the help!


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I used to just tape a piece of paper with whatever I was getting done on my ECU for C2... Great guys, I WILL be doing more business with them soon! 

Also, if it's on them, I guarantee they'll get it retuned, back to you quickly and have your car running smooooooth! They've always come through for me. :beer:


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

TeamZleep said:


> I used to just tape a piece of paper with whatever I was getting done on my ECU for C2... Great guys, I WILL be doing more business with them soon!
> 
> Also, if it's on them, I guarantee they'll get it retuned, back to you quickly and have your car running smooooooth! They've always come through for me. :beer:


I'm certain they will.

UPDATE:

I just wanted to add this note i'll add it up top too. I have noticed over the past couple of days, the problematic starts (the ones with the sputters) only happen on true cold starts (and much worse with AC on). When the car is warm or even every so slightly warm it start fine. Like today, the car was sitting there for about 4-5 hours I get to the car and i look at the temp needle, and it is every so slightly above 50C and the car started like it use to always, perfectly fine.


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## sleeper247 (Oct 2, 2009)

I would go back to stock software if you can so you can isolate the problem. You said the problem got worse when you had the tune?


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

sleeper247 said:


> I would go back to stock software if you can so you can isolate the problem. You said the problem got worse when you had the tune?


Yes it did.

the sputtering/stuttering starts would happen like 1 in 10 (cold) starts for about a month previously then it started to happen every start after the second day with the tune.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

Do we have this valve? or is that just the 2.0T?

N80 valve ( Evaporative Vacuum Purge Valve )

i was reading that it can cause a bunch of problems similar to mine.

n/m dumb questions further research of course we have it. 

Replacing it would that change anything? I know there was a service bulletin for the 2.0T engines regarding this. It's sitting on top of the engine isn't it?


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

ECU is in the mail i'll get it in on Wed.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

I got the ECU back and have had about 10 starts and it's been absolutely fine! They dropped the start up RPM from 1600 to 1300 RPM (from what i've seen) and beyond that i have no clue what they've done lol.


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## HIBB 304 (Nov 8, 2008)

So the tune was the problem? Did C-2 say what the problem was?


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

Anile_eight said:


> I got the ECU back and have had about 10 starts and it's been absolutely fine! They dropped the start up RPM from 1600 to 1300 RPM (from what i've seen) and beyond that i have no clue what they've done lol.


 
C2 Software Engineer Potter, made some specific adjustments based on your feedback and the provided data. 
Glad your hear that you are happy, please let us know if there is anything further we can do for you, or any others in the 2.5 Community. 

C2


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

This is why little ol' c2 will always, always, always out do the big guys. Thank you so much for the awesome support guys! You are awesome and never let anyone down as long as I've seen you around the tex.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

C2Motorsports said:


> C2 Software Engineer Potter, made some specific adjustments based on your feedback and the provided data.


Very responsive guy and company in general. Highly recommended.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

C2Motorsports said:


> C2 Software Engineer Potter, made some specific adjustments based on your feedback and the provided data.
> Glad your hear that you are happy, please let us know if there is anything further we can do for you, or any others in the 2.5 Community.
> 
> C2


You guys are awesome! it still works great weeks later 

If I may ask what did he end up doing? if you want you can shoot me a pm with details (of what you can tell me) if it matters. Thanks again guys, very glad to have done business with you! I will soon again once I have enough to save up for the wooooshing noise!


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

Anile_eight said:


> You guys are awesome! it still works great weeks later


:thumbup::thumbup:


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