# Odds there'll be a manual + quattro?



## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

Is there any chance the US will finally get a manual quattro combo option?


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## DjSherif (Apr 27, 2005)

Doubtful! But let's hope they bring the S3 over with that combination.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Chimera said:


> Is there any chance the US will finally get a manual quattro combo option?


There hasn't been any confirmation yet from Audi, but it sure would be great to be able to buy a 2.0T quattro + 6 speed model here, that's for sure.


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## maverickar15 (Mar 7, 2011)

DjSherif said:


> Doubtful! But let's hope they bring the S3 over with that combination.


I like my A3 but it will be traded-in immediately when that becomes available, provided it is the hatchback version.


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## MickSF (May 22, 2008)

Travis Grundke said:


> There hasn't been any confirmation yet from Audi, but it sure would be great to be able to buy a 2.0T quattro + 6 speed model here, that's for sure.


Geez I hope so! I hoped they learned from the last version that the demand is there....


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Travis Grundke said:


> There hasn't been any confirmation yet from Audi, but it sure would be great to be able to buy a 2.0T quattro + 6 speed model here, that's for sure.



Pssssst, its called a Golf R!


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## brookside (Jan 11, 2012)

*Optimist*

I'm looking at the bright (maybe unlikely) side of things. I think ANA will do it's best to get this launch right - with an emphasis on enabling the customer to choose from a wide selection of options and packages. 
Manual/Quattro seems like a no-brainer in terms of giving people what they want. 
It sure seems like that's the general flow of all retail business- more individual choices that end up with a product such as a car that can be tailored to exactly what the buyer is looking for with few compromises along the way.

I guess the question is- is the availability of manual/quattro a deal breaker?


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## BClear (Jun 18, 2010)

I feel like there are certainly better chances for a Quattro/manual powertrain this time around with the U.S. getting a sedan rather than a hatch. There was probably a very small market for that powertrain with the previous car, especially after taking into account Americans preference for sedans over hatches. However, with the growth and increased cost of the A4 over the years, I see them selling a lot more of these new A3 sedans here, and so I'm hoping there is a business case for a Quattro/manual powertrain.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

As for price points, my guess is that Audi is going to make the A3 sedan here in north america compete not based on price but on market segment. That is to say that the A3 sedan will likely come in slightly under the A4, but not by much, but will target a different buying segment than does the A4. 

The differentiation is already well set: the A3 will be smaller and have a radically different interior from the more pedestrian A4. 

Personally, I say that Audi would be wise to raise base prices of the A3 sedan by $1,500 but include Quattro as standard. But that's just me...


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## ocswing (Sep 24, 2011)

Travis Grundke said:


> As for price points, my guess is that Audi is going to make the A3 sedan here in north america compete not based on price but on market segment. That is to say that the A3 sedan will likely come in slightly under the A4, but not by much, but will target a different buying segment than does the A4.
> 
> The differentiation is already well set: the A3 will be smaller and have a radically different interior from the more pedestrian A4.
> 
> Personally, I say that Audi would be wise to raise base prices of the A3 sedan by $1,500 but include Quattro as standard. But that's just me...


I would be fine if they raised the base price if they included more stuff in general. Quattro, auto-dimming rear view mirror, bluetooth, led drls, etc. I know that some people don't want that stuff, but the current base price doesn't really get you many features that you would identify an Audi having. The price on the A3 also jumps up really quickly when you add features as well.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Considering you can get both the A4 and A6 with FWD the A3 will come with it also.

If nothing else, people want to see a low starting price even if most don't want to buy that car. For non performance people that live in areas that get little or no snow I can see a lot of them prefering the front wheel drive. Normally a little better gas mileage, lower price and fewer things to go wrong.


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## BClear (Jun 18, 2010)

dmorrow said:


> Considering you can get both the A4 and A6 with FWD the A3 will come with it also.
> 
> If nothing else, people want to see a low starting price even if most don't want to buy that car. For non performance people that live in areas that get little or no snow I can see a lot of them prefering the front wheel drive. Normally a little better gas mileage, lower price and fewer things to go wrong.


I agree with your statement. FWD will definitely be offered alongside Quattro, as it should be.

And as an enthusiast that considers value, I will be forced to strongly consider a FWD/manual car, if there is no Quattro/manual powertrain offered. If we look at powertrain options of the current car, the Quattro/S-Tronic powertrain demands a premium of $3580 over the same FWD/manual car. The FWD/S-Tronic car is of little interest to me as it's the same as what I currently have in my DSG MKV GTI.

The current car charges $1480 for S-Tronic, $2100 for Quattro, and $2000 to upgrade from Premium trim to Premium Plus. There is no savings for any certain combination. Hopefully they don't increase the base price too much, if at all, offer these options for the same/similar prices, and offer either transmission with either drivetrain.


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## GermanMan (Apr 28, 2002)

*I hope so, but....*

Since its the idiots at Audi USA deciding who knows. 

These are the same people who have repeatedly told me a tdi quattro would not get imported because it's too expensive for Americans, I presume because Audi sees its us customers as lazy and stupid. And yet they then also refuse to give you a tdi with a manual gearbox, or a quatro with a manual... Both being cheaper than the flappy paddle variants they only provide. UGH 

DAMIT, if I want a manual tdi Quattro then why the hell not? 

It's even stupider when you can get some of the combos in a VW Golf, but not the A3. And they are THE SAME CAR under the skin! 

Drives me mad!


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## GermanMan (Apr 28, 2002)

BClear said:


> I feel like there are certainly better chances for a Quattro/manual powertrain this time around with the U.S. getting a sedan rather than a hatch.


 Oh god I hope not. The whole point of the a3 is the hatch. If its gonna be a sedan then you might as well buy the a4. I guess I'll be waiting for a Golf definitely then.


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## BClear (Jun 18, 2010)

GermanMan said:


> Oh god I hope not. The whole point of the a3 is the hatch. If its gonna be a sedan then you might as well buy the a4. I guess I'll be waiting for a Golf definitely then.


 It's already been confirmed by Audi execs that there will not be a hatch stateside. The sedan is confirmed, and a cabrio is a possibility. 

I'm waiting for the A3 sedan and the MKVII GTI. Suposedly, the MKVII Golf may debut at Geneva, alongside the A3 hatch debut that other markets will see. At least Geneva will give us a view of what the production front end looks like in person. 

On a related note, the MKVII GTI is rumored to be receiving the next generation EA888 engine. As the GTI and A3 have shared engines in the past, perhaps it will debut in this car.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Based on how many A4 Avants, BMW wagons, and Mercedeces wagons I don't blame them for not bringing the wagons here. Same goes for the manuals, a far smaller percentage of them are sold over the automatic. Add in the limited number production for the A3 and I can see a good reason not to bring over every combination available. While I would be interested in a five door quattro manual I could see the market being pretty small for it. 

Take these choices - (quattro, FWD), (sedan, 5 door), (manual, automatic), (diesel, gas) and without even getting into colors and trim levels you have 2X2X2X2= 16 combinations of cars. Add in 4 colors and 2 trim levels and you have 128 (16 x 4 x 2) ways to build the car. 

If you were Audi and trying to maximize profit which ones of the above would you bring to the U.S.? 

If you were the average dealer would you want to try to pick 3 cars to stock out of 128 build combinations? Most Americans won't special order and wait the months to get a car.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

GermanMan said:


> Since its the idiots at Audi USA deciding who knows.
> 
> These are the same people who have repeatedly told me a tdi quattro would not get imported because it's too expensive for Americans, I presume because Audi sees its us customers as lazy and stupid. And yet they then also refuse to give you a tdi with a manual gearbox, or a quatro with a manual... Both being cheaper than the flappy paddle variants they only provide. UGH
> 
> ...


 It's frustrating, but when you only sell ~100,000 vehicles per year in a specific market you have to pick your battles (and expenses) wisely. Why did they bring a TDI FWD A3? Simple - better fuel economy and lower price point. Audi wanted to make a splash and compete with the hybrid/high mileage market. More importantly, they wanted to test the waters with a premium hatchback and gauge market reaction. 

The good news: they've sold like gangbusters, at a very nice margin for AoA and for dealerships. 

Each model that they sell in the US market has to have a specific role in the overall plan to increase sales or to test the market. The 8P A3 has been a grand experiment for Audi in North America and all in all I think it has shown them that premium small cars can indeed be sold here, but packaging and positioning is *critical*. 

Until Audi is selling 200,000+ vehicles annually in North America it will be very hard to justify the niche models. My sincere wish is that they would federalize some of these models for custom order only. There are many of us who would gladly pay the premium.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

GermanMan said:


> Oh god I hope not. The whole point of the a3 is the hatch. If its gonna be a sedan then you might as well buy the a4. I guess I'll be waiting for a Golf definitely then.


 The MQB A3 and the MLP A4 are substantially different vehicles for substantially different demographics. The A3 will have a lot more panache than the A4, both exterior and interior. The A4 will also no doubt have a more sophisticated suspension, slightly enhanced interior materials and more volume. 

Hop in the way-back machine to 2009 and the MLP A4 introductions: the moans and groans about how boring the car was were loud and clear. I don't think you'll hear the same for the new A3.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

BClear said:


> I'm waiting for the A3 sedan and the MKVII GTI. Suposedly, the MKVII Golf may debut at Geneva, alongside the A3 hatch debut that other markets will see. At least Geneva will give us a view of what the production front end looks like in person.


 MK VII Golf isn't scheduled to debut until this fall at Frankfurt or Paris.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

dmorrow said:


> Take these choices - (quattro, FWD), (sedan, 5 door), (manual, automatic), (diesel, gas) and without even getting into colors and trim levels you have 2X2X2X2= 16 combinations of cars. Add in 4 colors and 2 trim levels and you have 128 (16 x 4 x 2) ways to build the car.


 Great point. Taking the cost of federalization out of the picture, logistics and inventory are very costly parts of the manufacturer's game. I still think it would be great to be able to special order a few of the more unique combos.


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## BClear (Jun 18, 2010)

Travis Grundke said:


> MK VII Golf isn't scheduled to debut until this fall at Frankfurt or Paris.


 After looking into this more, it appears the most recent report suggests Paris '12. I had previously seen mixed reports that mentioned various different shows in both 2012 and 2013, including Geneva '12. It was simply wishful thinking that it would be the earliest possible debut, hence the word "may". My apologies for not reading the most recent news before posting.


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## GermanMan (Apr 28, 2002)

dmorrow said:


> If you were Audi and trying to maximize profit which ones of the above would you bring to the U.S.?
> 
> If you were the average dealer would you want to try to pick 3 cars to stock out of 128 build combinations? Most Americans won't special order and wait the months to get a car.


 For dealer stock that's fine. Cater to the same vanilla customer every other brand does. But give the assembly line make them, at least pe this that want one be able to order one. I'm willing to wait. I'm not buying a Honda here, but if Audi USA wants to be Honda I cannot stop them.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

The b8 A4 is available in manual+quattro. Who does AoA think is the demographic for a manual b8, the budget minded or an enthusiast? (my guess is this combo is on the way out?)


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

GermanMan said:


> For dealer stock that's fine. Cater to the same vanilla customer every other brand does. But give the assembly line make them, at least pe this that want one be able to order one. I'm willing to wait. I'm not buying a Honda here, but if Audi USA wants to be Honda I cannot stop them.


 With my math I came up with 128 combinations wanted. Since cars have to be federalized to be sold in the U.S., special ordering a five door, manual, quattro isn't practical unless you can sell a lot of them. With such a small percentage of Americans willing to wait months for a special order car this also isn't a good business plan. The A3 has never been a high production car in the U.S. so they can't suddenly expect to sell 200,000 of them with the next model. 

Of the 128 combinations, which ones should they build? I'm sure their Production Mgrs. and Suppliers need to have a reasonably good estimate of what they are going to build next year and every variation creates overall expense in the system.


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## Rudy_S4 (Nov 10, 2011)

Just throwing it out there. 

VW brought to Canada the Golf R in ONLY AWD + manual. I have a feeling it will be an option, where the standard will come with DSG. VW obviously discerned that there is a market, and the market spoke selling out, can't find a Golf R anywhere. 

So A3 / S3 sedan it is!


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## mookieblaylock (Sep 25, 2005)

GermanMan said:


> Oh god I hope not. The whole point of the a3 is the hatch. If its gonna be a sedan then you might as well buy the a4. I guess I'll be waiting for a Golf definitely then.


 for me the whole point would be the 3 door cuz the new ones will be sedan and 5 door on a stretched(read heavier) platform and the 3 door and s3 will be shorter wheel base and so lighter and more agile but but this is the US so...


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

Doesn't the 2dr have the same underpinnings/wheelbase as the 4dr? 

If you're only after a 2dr Quattro manual, why not just get a loaded golfR for $36k?


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## KnockKnock (Jun 30, 2005)

I hope the Golf R sold well. That would prove that enthusiasts want the manual tranny. Since that was federalized, in theory, a special order S3 with the manual would be possible.

So I hope the Golf R sold well. Along with the TTRS, there may be enough proof of demand.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

KnockKnock said:


> I hope the Golf R sold well. That would prove that enthusiasts want the manual tranny. Since that was federalized, in theory, a special order S3 with the manual would be possible.
> 
> So I hope the Golf R sold well. Along with the TTRS, there may be enough proof of demand.


I don't see the R engine continuing since it ended in most models in 2008. So new engine, new platform, different body than the R, maybe the transmission is the same? I really don't expect to see a special order only S3.


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## [email protected] (Dec 12, 2001)

dmorrow said:


> I don't see the R engine continuing since it ended in most models in 2008.


Technically, no it didn't. The 200HP version of the FSI was phased out, but not the "K04" version that's in the Golf R. It's also currently used in the Seat Leon Cupra R, the GTI35, the TTS, etc.

Although they're based on the same architecture, they're different engines.

-Tim


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Technically, no it didn't. The 200HP version of the FSI was phased out, but not the "K04" version that's in the Golf R. It's also currently used in the Seat Leon Cupra R, the GTI35, the TTS, etc.
> 
> Although they're based on the same architecture, they're different engines.
> 
> -Tim


Same cam follower, same layout, same belt, same configuration. Bigger turbo and stronger connecting parts. You really think this engine will show up in a new platform?

Edit - Also, did you notice I said it ended in *most* models in 2008?


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## V0LKSWAGENSRULE (Aug 26, 2004)

The new A3 _will_ be my next Audi. I'm hoping we get news of an S version coming to the US before I commit, cause I really want Man+Quattro+Killer Engine combo.


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## kiznarsh (Apr 10, 2007)

V0LKSWAGENSRULE said:


> The new A3 _will *most likely*_ be my *first* Audi. I'm hoping we get news of an S version coming to the US before I commit, cause I really want Man+Quattro+Killer Engine combo.


x2 (with some editing)

I want my next car to have AWD, 4 doors, and a turbo. I'm currently considering the Golf R but that'll just be a trim upgrade for me...not exactly a _new_ car. Waiting another year will just allow me to save up more since my GTI has been paid off since last September.

If they bring the S3, it'll be a more affordable (and slightly less powerful) version of the S4 and more than enough to satisfy my performance requirements. :thumbup:


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