# 16v G60 with ITB



## Stealthpro411 (Jul 31, 2004)

16v G60 with ITB will there be any gains to doing this? it should work with Digi-1 in reality its a supercharged 16v.... but before i start i just wanna explore all the options and if its possible why not! probably be running 20PSI with the lysholm just wandering if it will work or not and if it will what gains would i expect? and how tunable would it be?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Stealthpro411)*

I belive the Issue you will have is clearance of the G60 with the intake manifold.I know ITB's can fit in there if it was a lysohlm or if you decided to make a custom bracket to hold your G60 charger.
Whatever the case alot of stuff is going to have to get moved around.Hope the picture below helps....
As for ITB's wait a couple of week's.I have something for the 16V and 20V guys at a very reasonable price.


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## Stealthpro411 (Jul 31, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Wizard-of-OD)*

whats a reasonable price and do you have any pictures it sounds interesting. im not in a hurry i still have to rebuild the motor anyway so it should be a month or two! awesome anyone else have any input as to power gains or anything like that? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Stealthpro411)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stealthpro411* »_whats a reasonable price and do you have any pictures it sounds interesting. im not in a hurry i still have to rebuild the motor anyway so it should be a month or two! awesome anyone else have any input as to power gains or anything like that? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

dont know yet though because some other components need fabricating..If you have any questions please IM me.
I am not a classifieds lister so I cant advertise the product obviously.I can only show you what I built and how much it cost me to build


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Stealthpro411)*

Stealth,
The Lysholm is a positive displacement compressor... so you really do not want to run ITBs after the compressor since the compressor is effectively "throttling" the system... 
regards,
Peter Tong


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Stealth,
The Lysholm is a positive displacement compressor... so you really do not want to run ITBs after the compressor since the compressor is effectively "throttling" the system... 
regards,
Peter Tong


Nothing a G60 wont fix


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## Stealthpro411 (Jul 31, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Wizard-of-OD)*

thanks peter! well the whole reason i wanted the lyshol is because my charger is going anyway... so instead of paying for a rebuild im putting it into a lysholm... but if ITB's is a bad idea for a lysholm then i wont do it! what about turboing a lysholm







ive seen a turbo driven supercharger before it looked cool but what effects would/could it have? anything interesting? the reason for it ont he engine i saw was to get more air into the engine


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Stealthpro411)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stealthpro411* »_thanks peter! well the whole reason i wanted the lyshol is because my charger is going anyway... so instead of paying for a rebuild im putting it into a lysholm... but if ITB's is a bad idea for a lysholm then i wont do it! what about turboing a lysholm







ive seen a turbo driven supercharger before it looked cool but what effects would/could it have? anything interesting? the reason for it ont he engine i saw was to get more air into the engine

Lysholm is a clutch type supercharger.Perfect for a Twin charged setup.Bahn Brenner did something like that a year ago but on an 8V.John Betz said if he ever was going to do the set up again he would go with a multivalve head.
But yes a Turbo charger feeding a Supercharger would be essential








p.s. My advice is to get an Audi FWD or Quattro frame as this would be too much to stuff into a tight Golf engine bay http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif (maybe I am just Biast to Audi's







)
Here is a Picture to help you see what your dealing with:


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## LHP (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Stealthpro411)*

You can not run ITB's in between the positive blower and the engine as you will just jamm the throttles shut with boost pressure, now if you were to run a paxton or vortex etc, which are not positive displacement blowers then you could position them (ITB's) in between the blower and the engine, but you would still need a blow off valve so as to not damage the throttles as you come back to closed throttle position. We have allready done this with turbo systems. http://www.haywardperformance.com LHP


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## Stealthpro411 (Jul 31, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_











so this is a turbocharged lysholm.... looks interesting are the gains way better with this setup? i figure the 16v g60 is drastic for me but why not make it insane? if you can get me more info ill be searching as i have only started taking apart my engines


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Stealthpro411)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stealthpro411* »_
so this is a turbocharged lysholm.... looks interesting are the gains way better with this setup? i figure the 16v g60 is drastic for me but why not make it insane? if you can get me more info ill be searching as i have only started taking apart my engines









Yes..John Betz felt like getting rid of a couple of screws.








dont know the results as the engine blew.Spoke with him and he said if he was to do it again it would be with a multi valve head. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Wizard, 
Thanks for posting that pic... every time I see it I marvel at how differently John B and myself must think in terms of designing Lysholm setups... there is absolutely nothing wrong with it per se and I give them kudos for putting their $$$ into developing such a setup. Its just that everyone has a different mindset on how to do things... interesting world we live in...
I've always mentioned this, but with positive displacement compressor like the Lysholm with the throttles upstream you lose compressor efficiency during part throttle running. Running the Lysholm without it plumbed "properly" (i'm not talking about the twin charged setup) is just darned crazy in my book - and back in 2000/2001 I should have said so earlier (I didn't want to criticize peoples setups). But thats just my humble opinion of course.
best regards,
Peter Tong

Well Peter I must say I enjoy reading your posts because they is so much to learn.I find that you have the ability to have a different opinion and support it well. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for that.
Now what would you do for a twin charged engine?


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Wizard-of-OD)*

Wizard, 
Some things must remain a secret and not made public unfortunately... I can't do other peoples homework and shouldn't expect them to do mine...so on this subject I'll just remain silent...








regards,
Peter T.


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Peter Tong)*








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Wizard, 
Some things must remain a secret and not made public unfortunately... I can't do other peoples homework and shouldn't expect them to do mine...so on this subject I'll just remain silent...











Rather sellfish...dont you think Peter?








If not for the good of vortex...then for the good of your friendly wizard before he gets on like a beatch


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## Stealthpro411 (Jul 31, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Wizard-of-OD)*

so lets do a hypothetical 16v with ITB's what kinda gains would i see in that setup?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Stealthpro411)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stealthpro411* »_so lets do a hypothetical 16v with ITB's what kinda gains would i see in that setup?

What I would do if I was to build a Supercharged Multi Valve VW engine is this.
*1*. ITB's
*2*. 10:1 CR
*3*. Bigger Pulley on SC (so that it turns over 10psi or thereabout)
Nothing like a High COmpression Forced Induced Vehicle.


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## my16vroccit (Dec 21, 2003)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Wizard-of-OD)*

so my question is would it be wiser to run an aluminum intake Mani instead of the ITB's? which would benefit performance with a supercharger?


_Modified by my16vroccit at 8:22 AM 12-27-2004_


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## Stealthpro411 (Jul 31, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (my16vroccit)*

well im sayin with no SC how would ITB's be on a N/A 16v ? i wanna start out small... also how would ITB's be on a low compression motor?


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Stealthpro411)*

Realistically, don't bother wasting your time or money on the ITB's if you plan to run forced induction. It is a bear to tune ITB's and by adding forced induction, it makes it even more difficult. A few years back, 2008cc (Dave) and myself, built an ABA 16V with 50mm ITB's and a T3/T4 turbo. It made some nice power (350+ HP at the wheels), but was more problematic than fun to drive.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (rhussjr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhussjr* »_Realistically, *don't bother wasting your time or money on the ITB's if you plan to run forced induction*. It is a bear to tune ITB's and by adding forced induction, it makes it even more difficult. A few years back, 2008cc (Dave) and myself, built an ABA 16V with 50mm ITB's and a T3/T4 turbo. It made some nice power (350+ HP at the wheels), but was more problematic than fun to drive.


ITB's should be the last modification you do on a FI car.I wouldnt call them a waste of time.Certain ITB's do not have all the hardware for FI.
The Nissan Pulsar GTi-R and Toyota 4A-GE 20V both came with Yamaha developed ITB's,one was NA and one was Turbo.
All ITB's are going to do is increase Throttle Response and help in the 1st to 2nd gear transition or vaccuum to boost transition.Obviously you cant install ITB's on any old girl,your going to have to use an Idle control valve with a tap before the throttle plates and after the throttle plates.
By Next 3 weeks we should have some results hopefully http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## leeG (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (Stealthpro411)*

This 16vG60 belongs to a frined of mine and will be converting to throttle bodies and DTA next year
the bodies will be inside a carbon plenum








Lee


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## Stealthpro411 (Jul 31, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (leeG)*

hey lee can you get more pics of that? ide like to see what happened to the alternator. thats a cool setup!


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## DjBij099 (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (rhussjr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhussjr* »_Realistically, don't bother wasting your time or money on the ITB's if you plan to run forced induction. It is a bear to tune ITB's and by adding forced induction, it makes it even more difficult. A few years back, 2008cc (Dave) and myself, built an ABA 16V with 50mm ITB's and a T3/T4 turbo. It made some nice power (350+ HP at the wheels), but was more problematic than fun to drive.

Do you have any pics of the car of the engine at least??


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (DjBij099)*


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (rhussjr)*

More pictures here:
http://www.geocities.com/Motor....html


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## Stealthpro411 (Jul 31, 2004)

*Re: 16v G60 with ITB (rhussjr)*

hows it run?


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