# What my local dealer said about the Timing Chain Tensioner issue.. BS?



## MazdaRehab (Nov 21, 2014)

I went into my local VW dealer to inquire about having my 2010 CC Sports timing chain tensioner replaced with the updated model, as I am scared that it's gonna fail on me. (I heard the telltale rattle once upon cold startup.) The service advisor said he hadn't heard of any problems with that part on the four cylinder, but that the VR6 has had alot of problems with it's tensioners. He then said the system is oil driven so as long as there is sufficient oil and the owner follows VW recommended 10,000 mile oil change intervals, then they should be fine. I had never heard anything about the VR6's tensioners but loads about the 2.0TSI's. He basically told me that replacing the tensioner would be a waste of time but that if I did want you, it would require 7 hours of labor at $100 an hour, plus $100 for the part. 

I realize that this subject has been covered before but I'm hoping for some opinions on what the dealer told me. I'm also worried that I may be a bit paranoid, so before I spend a grand getting the part pre-emptively replaced, I'd like to knowthat I'm doing the right thing. I'd just be completely screwed if it broke and grenaded my engine with 4 years left on my loan.


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

Your dealer service advisor is living under a rock if he is not aware of the tensioner issues with the 2.0T TFSI. If you can afford it, it is cheap insurance and peace of mind to have them replace the lower chain tensioner.


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## S400 (Feb 25, 2015)

*Holy Crap, not this again...*

I really didn't want to read that there is an issue with the timing chain on our CCs. I just unloaded a MINI due to the 'death rattle' risk, and picked up a new CC Sport. Please, please, please tell me I don't have to worry about this with mindful oil changes.

:banghead:


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## MazdaRehab (Nov 21, 2014)

You're safe. This problem only affects 09-12 CC's. VW updated the tensioner after that and the change fixed the issue.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

MazdaRehab said:


> VW updated the tensioner after that and the change *HOPEFULLY* fixed the issue.


Edited that for you 

_Too early to tell_


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

snobrdrdan said:


> Edited that for you
> 
> _Too early to tell_


Word.

OP: that price sounds about right. I've read others paying about 900 for the job (dealer prices)


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## richmondvatdi (May 17, 2003)

*Priority VW in Colonial Heights, VA says no issues with 2.0 TSI timing belt tensioner*

I have 31,000 miles on my 2013 (purchased in Sept. of 2013). I called the dealer yesterday to ask about the TSB for the tensioner. The service manager was not aware of the TSB and looked at it when I gave him the TSB number. After reading it, he said his dealership had not had any failures. I asked him to look up my VIN and he confirmed that I have the dreaded CBFA engine code to which the TSP applies. I asked him to have the dealer replace it, but he gave me the answer I expected: NO.

What now?
Call Customer Care and ask to preemptively replace it?
Don't worry about it until we reach the end of the power train warranty at 50K? 
Replace it myself at 49K miles?

Between this and the nasty cupping issue, I am beginning to regret my CC purchase.


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

richmondvatdi said:


> I have 31,000 miles on my 2013 (purchased in Sept. of 2013). I called the dealer yesterday to ask about the TSB for the tensioner. The service manager was not aware of the TSB and looked at it when I gave him the TSB number. After reading it, he said his dealership had not had any failures. I asked him to look up my VIN and he confirmed that I have the dreaded CBFA engine code to which the TSP applies. I asked him to have the dealer replace it, but he gave me the answer I expected: NO.
> 
> What now?
> Call Customer Care and ask to preemptively replace it?
> ...


The only way that it would be replaced on VW's dime is if it fails. TSB ≠ Recall

Your powertrain warranty is good til 60k- replace it after that if you plan on keep your car long-term.


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

A 2013 model most likely has the new tensioner design in the engine. Look at the white decal on the passenger side of the engine, near the coolant tank. The number on the upper right side is the build date of the engine, in Euro format (Day:Month:Year). I think the new tensioners started being installed during 2012 engine build dates.


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## richmondvatdi (May 17, 2003)

CC'ed said:


> A 2013 model most likely has the new tensioner design in the engine. Look at the white decal on the passenger side of the engine, near the coolant tank. The number on the upper right side is the build date of the engine, in Euro format (Day:Month:Year). I think the new tensioners started being installed during 2012 engine build dates.


The dealer pulled the build information based on my VIN, which he has in their system, and said that the TSB definitely applies to my car. To be sure, I will check out the decal this weekend when the car is back home. 

At this rate, I will be bumping up against the 60,000 power train warranty in 18 months or so.


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## Cnyman (Jun 13, 2011)

Just had the tensioner replaced on my 2013. The build date on my engine is 2-15-13. (converted to US order). They were replacing the cylinder head due to a "leaky" valve (low compression)under warranty. I had them replace the tensioner during the job and only had to pay for the part. The old tensioner had a part number of 06k 109 467. The new updated part number is the same number with a "K" as a suffix. The old tensioner is a much better design than the ones on the 3.2's as it has a positive pressure spring that applies significant tension without oil pressure and does not lock in a relaxed position. The dealership said that the engine was not applicable to the TSB for the tensioner but agreed that the engine did not have the latest version. At least I now have the latest version at 32k miles along with a new cylinder head. This puts off the carbon cleaning for another 30-40k.


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## richmondvatdi (May 17, 2003)

Cnyman said:


> Just had the tensioner replaced on my 2013. The build date on my engine is 2-15-13. (converted to US order). They were replacing the cylinder head due to a "leaky" valve (low compression)under warranty. I had them replace the tensioner during the job and only had to pay for the part. The old tensioner had a part number of 06k 109 467. The new updated part number is the same number with a "K" as a suffix. The old tensioner is a much better design than the ones on the 3.2's as it has a positive pressure spring that applies significant tension without oil pressure and does not lock in a relaxed position. The dealership said that the engine was not applicable to the TSB for the tensioner but agreed that the engine did not have the latest version. At least I now have the latest version at 32k miles along with a new cylinder head. This puts off the carbon cleaning for another 30-40k.


Why did you suspect you had a leaky valve? Running poorly?


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## S400 (Feb 25, 2015)

*Thanks*

Thanks for the reply. That is what I wanted to hear.


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## Jhawkcclux (Mar 10, 2011)

Had my car in for service and asked about the TSB mentioned in these threads. Service manager came over and hacked away on computer for a while and said that that TSB did not apply to the CC or my VIN:banghead: he said they rarely see it, 80k miles or more and people who don't keep up with oil changes and run bad fuel. My car has a build date of Nov. '10, so I am pretty sure it applies. Basically said not to worry about it..... Thanks a bunch! I asked what to look for so as not to frag the motor. He said the check engine light will come on way before I notice anything. Not a lot of faith in these guys...


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

Jhawkcclux said:


> He said the check engine light will come on way before I notice anything.


And then it'll be too late :facepalm:

I'd find another dealer


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## 10CC (Oct 6, 2010)

Jhawkcclux said:


> Had my car in for service and asked about the TSB mentioned in these threads. Service manager came over and hacked away on computer for a while and said that that TSB did not apply to the CC or my VIN:banghead: he said they rarely see it, 80k miles or more and people who don't keep up with oil changes and run bad fuel. My car has a build date of Nov. '10, so I am pretty sure it applies. Basically said not to worry about it..... Thanks a bunch! I asked what to look for so as not to frag the motor. He said the check engine light will come on way before I notice anything. Not a lot of faith in these guys...


Except when your CEL comes on a couple miles from home and nothing seems wrong with the car except it idling a little rough, you park it for the night and the damage (which would have been in the $6-7k range if I wasn't covered by CPO warranty, according to my dealer) is already done by the time you unsuccessfully try to start your ~30k mile CC the next morning.

Ask me how I know this :banghead:


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## SD 2.0T (May 25, 2013)

How am I just realizing this is a thing?

My car just hit 60,000 miles so I am out of warranty, and never had any clue about the chain tensioner issue.


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## Jhawkcclux (Mar 10, 2011)

Yes Dan, I'm not sure why I let these ass clowns still touch my car. Actually, just oil changes, and I check the levels before I leave :laugh: 

So what would you do? 4 years old, 48k miles, well maintained. Fork out about a grand to have the new part put in? Drive it for another year and flush this turd before it goes south? I do like the car, a lot, but don't have $6k for a new motor


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

You "only" have 48k miles on it.
From the few horror stories I've seen, they've been higher mileage (80k-100k area).

Guess it depends on how long you plan on owning the car and/or how OCD or paranoid you are?


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## bisheitt1 (Apr 18, 2014)

So question, does this chain tensioner issue only apply to motor type CBFA or does it apply to the CCTA motor type as well?


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

bisheitt1 said:


> So question, does this chain tensioner issue only apply to motor type CBFA or does it apply to the CCTA motor type as well?


both. CBFA motors have extra emissions components but are identical other than that.


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## instigator31 (Jun 20, 2011)

Uggg...can't believe I am now just hearing about this....and I just decided I was going to keep my 2012, maybe it is time to trade before my Powertrain warranty expires.


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## burnout8488 (Jul 22, 2008)

My 2013's engine was produced 05/12....ugggghh

Mine has the rattle on a cold start, but never on a warm start.

https://youtu.be/8KAkMerGJUk

23K miles.

Would a dealer replace the tensioner after hearing this little rattle? Or would they call it normal?


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

instigator31 said:


> Uggg...can't believe I am now just hearing about this....and I just decided I was going to keep my 2012, maybe it is time to trade before my Powertrain warranty expires.


Or just have the tensioner replaced


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

burnout8488 said:


> My 2013's engine was produced 05/12....ugggghh
> 
> Mine has the rattle on a cold start, but never on a warm start.
> 
> ...


Hmmm. What was the temp? Mines never sounded like that. Esp at that low of a mileage.


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## nixlair (Mar 4, 2014)

So why isnt this recalled by VW? is it not an obvious issue? I have a 2010 with 38,000 kms. Should i be worried? I have to dish out money to have this fixed when it seems it's clearly a faulty part? I'm not hearing any rattles but i really dont want any problems down the road.


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## burnout8488 (Jul 22, 2008)

DasCC said:


> Hmmm. What was the temp? Mines never sounded like that. Esp at that low of a mileage.


It was in a 40F garage, first start of the night.


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

nixlair said:


> So why isnt this recalled by VW? is it not an obvious issue? I have a 2010 with 38,000 kms. Should i be worried? I have to dish out money to have this fixed when it seems it's clearly a faulty part? I'm not hearing any rattles but i really dont want any problems down the road.


VW is only obligated to do a safety or emission related recall. A design defect might be a voluntary "goodwill" action, where VW pays for a significant cost of repairs. A TSB is NOT a recall, it is only technical info for the service dept.


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## MazdaRehab (Nov 21, 2014)

The one time I heard the rattle, I checked my oil level and found that it was pretty low. I topped up the oil and haven't heard it since. I now check the oil at every fill up and always keep a bottle of oil in the trunk, just in case it's a bit low. I'm wondering what exactly it means that the tensioner is oil driven? How can this lead to failure? And how does the updated part overcome this?


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

The tensioner is a piston with a ratchet end-stop mechanism. The engine oil pressure pushes the piston out, against the lower chain, taking-up the chain slack. The ratchet keeps the tensioner from retracting all the way back, when the oil pressure goes away when the engine is shut off. It is the ratchet that fails at engine shut-down, and then when you start the engine, the chain has too much slack (before the oil pressure builds-up again) and can skip sprocket teeth, allowing the cam timing to be wrong, which then can cause an intake or exhaust valve to hit the top of a piston. It is the ratchet mechanism that was redesigned in the new revision of the tensioner.


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## VirgoPHD (Dec 12, 2014)

nixlair said:


> So why isnt this recalled by VW? is it not an obvious issue? I have a 2010 with 38,000 kms. Should i be worried? I have to dish out money to have this fixed when it seems it's clearly a faulty part? I'm not hearing any rattles but i really dont want any problems down the road.


I don't fellas VW leaving me with a pretty bad impression


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

VirgoPHD said:


> I don't fellas VW leaving me with a pretty bad impression


VW does not treat its customers any different than any other manufacturers concerning problems that happen after the warrantee has expired.


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## VirgoPHD (Dec 12, 2014)

CC'ed said:


> VW does not treat its customers any different than any other manufacturers concerning problems that happen after the warrantee has expired.


But even during warranty status, all these TSBs you would think that they would jump on if it fails


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## MazdaRehab (Nov 21, 2014)

You cannot expect a manufacturer to replace broken parts for free unless they have to. It's just not how most businesses are these days. VW's are awesome cars, but they're well known for being fussy and generally unreliable. It's VW's problem that this reputation has led to decreased sales, and many bitter ex-customers. It's our problem that we have to worry about clutches randomly going out at 40,000 miles, and timing chain tensioners randomly failing and destroying our engines. Before I bought my CC, I was within a hair of buying a V6 Accord, but it just was so boring that I just couldn't do it. I wouldn't have had to worry about anything breaking but, well, lets just say that I am not risk-averse.


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## VirgoPHD (Dec 12, 2014)

MazdaRehab said:


> You cannot expect a manufacturer to replace broken parts for free unless they have to. It's just not how most businesses are these days. VW's are awesome cars, but they're well known for being fussy and generally unreliable. It's VW's problem that this reputation has led to decreased sales, and many bitter ex-customers. It's our problem that we have to worry about clutches randomly going out at 40,000 miles, and timing chain tensioners randomly failing and destroying our engines. Before I bought my CC, I was within a hair of buying a V6 Accord, but it just was so boring that I just couldn't do it. I wouldn't have had to worry about anything breaking but, well, lets just say that I am not risk-averse.


LMNO:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## ujustb1 (Jul 16, 2015)

*Tension chain whoa's 2010 CC*

About three weeks ago I took my 2010 cc to the dealer for an issue with the vehicle jumping when pressing on the gas when the cc is cold. The dealer told me it was the coils miss firing so they replaced all the coils. Two weeks ago the same issue returned so i took it back to the dealer they informed they couldn't find anything wrong with the vehicle but it might be carbon build up on the manifold and if the check engine light comes on come back. Yesterday after returning from work and parking in the mall the CC wouldn't start. Today I have it towed to the dealer and they inform me its the battery and tried to charge me 243.00 for the battery. I replaced the battery with another battery and the car still wouldn't start now the dealer states its not the battery the engine won't turn and its the timing tensioner chain. I purchased my CC new from the dealer in 2010 and since having it I have had the fuel pump/injectors replaced, transmission replaced, mega-tronics or whatever its called, bearings, and coils. I am now waiting for an estimate for the engine.....It is safe to say I'm done.. this car has been costly granted i have a 100k on the CC but I have taken very good care of the vehicle but its been noting but maintenance an expenses.


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## Franzjerry (Sep 16, 2015)

sounds really horrible. Really really.


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## Franzjerry (Sep 16, 2015)

ujustb1 said:


> About three weeks ago I took my 2010 cc to the dealer for an issue with the vehicle jumping when pressing on the gas when the cc is cold. The dealer told me it was the coils miss firing so they replaced all the coils. Two weeks ago the same issue returned so i took it back to the dealer they informed they couldn't find anything wrong with the vehicle but it might be carbon build up on the manifold and if the check engine light comes on come back. Yesterday after returning from work and parking in the mall the CC wouldn't start. Today I have it towed to the dealer and they inform me its the battery and tried to charge me 243.00 for the battery. I replaced the battery with another battery and the car still wouldn't start now the dealer states its not the battery the engine won't turn and its the timing tensioner chain. I purchased my CC new from the dealer in 2010 and since having it I have had the fuel pump/injectors replaced, transmission replaced, mega-tronics or whatever its called, bearings, and coils. I am now waiting for an estimate for the engine.....It is safe to say I'm done.. this car has been costly granted i have a 100k on the CC but I have taken very good care of the vehicle but its been noting but maintenance an expenses.


After hearing your horror story, I may want to have my time chain tensioner replaced as soon as possible...


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