# 83 GTI CIS



## ablose1961 (Jan 30, 2007)

I posted a topic in the MK1 Section and it was suggested I try here.
Can someone point me to info on the whole Audi 5000 WUR swap thing?
I've got one. Just wondering what the advantage is and if it's worth doing.
It's a fairly stock car. AC on it. Neuspeed TB and new exhaust front to back.
I've searched the site and can't find anything specific.
Thanks


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## redpig (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: 83 GTI CIS (ablose1961)*

you can search all you want and you probably wont find the correct answer on this topic, first off the WUR you are looking for has 3 ports on it, one on the front two one the side, they didnt only come on audi 5000 turbos, they also came off old audi coupes that where naturally aspirated, they used them as fuel enrichment for when the engine is inder 120 degrees, and the regulator number you are looking for is 
0438140094. if every body is telling you to hook up the small port strait to the manifold, htey are wrong, on boost application they might be right I not sure cause I never had a boosted cis car, but for naturally aspirated that is not the way you hook it up and let me get into detail on why
the idea if the regulator is to relieve pressure off the bimetal strip in side to allow more fuel, also, the large port you may of read to leave open, once again on a turbo car this may be true, but for naturally aspirated it was not intended to work like this,try to keep up and I will break it down into full detail. in between the small port and the big port and the small port there is a diapram, and how this works is pretty simple, at idle you have the most amount of manifold pressure, with both ports hooked up to the manifold it keeps the diapram in the middle which will allow less fuel to flow which is good and when you step on the gass and the TB plate opens the manifold pressure drops, you might be asking your self, well won't both ports drop as well and doo absolutly nothing, yes, that is why you need to put a one way check valve on just like the one they use from the factory for the a/c sytem, vw uses a black and blue one, what this does is holds the high pressure the the small port, and since you dont have one on the large port, the pressure drops in the large port allowing the diapram to pull down reducing the pressure on the bi metal strip allowing more fuel to flow.
the problem with the large port is, when the regulator is installed the large port is extemely close th the oil filter housing not allowing you to put a hose on it, two options here, either A, leave the large port dosconnected which I dont recomend because you will have extra fuel from idle on up wasting you gas and money, but it is an option, or B which I recommend, cut the large port down enough to fit a 1/4 in 90 degree vacuum boot on it to clear
parts needed: 1/4 in vacuum hose, 1/4 vacuum T, one way check valve that I would get from NAPA if possible only because its a 1/4 in coming in to the valve and smaller coming out and the NAPA part number is 730-1347, and I think the smaller size vacuum hose is 5/32 but you mught want to match it up prior to putting it on, also make sure you get the WUR hold down bolts since they are probably longer
I think I covered everything, if anybody has two cent to throw in I'm sure he would appreciate it. I also drew up diagram on how to route it if you are puzzled since it can be nerve racking, any questions IM me, hope this helps also, do not hook up you vacuum supply to the TB boot since there is no vacuum pressure before the TB at idle









_Modified by redpig at 4:57 PM 6-5-2008_

_Modified by redpig at 2:05 AM 6-6-2008_


_Modified by redpig at 4:51 PM 1-14-2009_


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Thanks for the clarification. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I apologize for hijacking, but is the Audi WUR necessary when using a Volvo 240T fuel distributor?


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## DTDSasquatch (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: 83 GTI CIS (redpig)*

Page 14 of the big CIS turbo thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...ge=14

_Quote, originally posted by *turbobunny007* »_Hey guys i forgot that i had a copy of ETKA ver.5(the parts program that the dealership parts guys use). So i decided to look up the 83 Audi 5000 turbo and look at the WUR. I found that they connect the both of the side ports together. So i guess that means were both right on witch one you can use. The program wouldnt let me copy the diagram to another and my printer was out off in so i coulndt print it then scan it in....so i took some pics with my camera. I m not sure how well they are going to so up on here. But if you want i can email them too..then you would be able to zoom.








these, i tried to get closer 
























they used the this WUR from 80 to 84 then in 85 theswitched to one without the small port. Hopefully this will help add to this post.


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Jettaboy1884)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jettaboy1884* »_Thanks for the clarification. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gifI apologize for hijacking, but is the Audi WUR necessary when using a Volvo 240T fuel distributor?

Not necessary for NA but a must for FI applications.


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## redpig (Mar 29, 2004)

the only problem with running it ekta diagram shown is from the factory they ran a ported vacuum swith that closed at 120 degrees so when the engine is warmed up you dont have fuel enrichment, thats why is the top diagram I made I bypassed it


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## redpig (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: (Jettaboy1884)*

not neaded unless you are running out of fuel at full boost


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## tristessa (Sep 25, 2003)

Damn, I bookmarked this thread for reference, and now the diagram I was looking for is gone.
redpig, any chance you could re-post it?


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## jrcook320 (Aug 10, 2006)

*Re: 83 GTI CIS (redpig)*

First off, you can use both the audi 5000s WUR and the Volvo 240 turbo WUR. They both are plumbed in the same manner from the factory with delay valve and thermostat. 
A lot of your info is right, but your theory is wrong on how the WUR works. The secondary spring doesn't contact the bimetallic strip. Once the WUR is warm, the bimetallic strip is rotated out of the way and has no effect on operation. Here's a diagram of a non vacuum/boost wur to illustrate this:








To compare, here is a diagram of a vacuum sensing WUR. 








This differs from a boost sensing WUR in that it doesn't have the range needed for boost enrichment diaphram travel, and I think there is a difference in the "preload" tension of the diaphragm between the 2. The diagram posted above is of a vacuum WUR, and it shows the diaphragm at the top travel stop under vacuum, and lowering to the bottom travel stop at 0 pressure. In this case, there is nothing pushing the diaphragm down, so I the diaphragm's home position is the lower stop, ie, it is preloaded in that direction.
If a boost sensing WUR went to full rich at 0 psig, it wouldn't be able to provide any boost enrichment. At 0 psi, it would have to be somewhere in the middle of it's travel range. BUT, from what I have observed, the home position of a turbo WUR's diaphram is at the TOP stop, which means it's preloaded in the opposite direction. This also means that it doesn't provide any change in control pressure until there is positive pressure applied. 
With a single line on the larger port (of the audi wur) I observed this top stop home position on a WUR off the car (with NO fuel pressure) and watched the diaphram move from top stop at 0 psi to the lower stop under pressure. I then tested the volvo 240 WUR on my car, again with a single line on the port above the diaphragm, with fuel pump jumpered and observing control pressures while applying pressure, then vacuum. I only noticed a drop in CP under "boost", but CP did not raise under vacuum.
I measured changes in control pressure on the Volvo 240 turbo WUR on my car plumbed with a single line to the top port, and then again with the stock volvo delay/check valve plumbed into the lower port.
Here are my findings: 
1 Vacuum/boost line to top port of WUR (similar to the 911 turbo plumbing) 
WCP @ 0" Hg = 54 psi (fuel pump jumpered) 
WCP @ idle, 19" Hg = 56 psi 
Throttle blip to 5" Hg = no change, 56 psi 
AFR @ idle, closed loop = 13.2 - 13.4 
Vacuum/boost line to top port, vacuum line w/ delay valve on bottom port (volvo/Audi plumbing): 
WCP @ 0" Hg = 54 psi (fuel pump jumpered, motor not running) 
WcP @ idle, 19" hg = 47 psi 
Throttle blip to 5" Hg = CP dropped to 30 psi 
AFR @ idle, closed loop = 12.6 - 12.8 
In the second test with the check valve installed, what is happening is the diaphragm is pulled down from its "home" position by equal vacuum on both ports (thus the lower control pressure at 19" Hg vacuum compared to 0 vacuum). Once vacuum drops (throttle tip in), the delay valve holds vacuum under the diaphragm while pressure rises above the diaphragm, allowing the diaphram to drop to give instant drop in control pressure. This gives better throttle response and less turbo lage. This works much like an accelerator pump on a carb would. Under boost, the top port sees full boost pressure, the lower port sees nothing.


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## redpig (Mar 29, 2004)

the original post was on a NA car not turbo which my theory was about. yours was on turbo which cover alot about the turbo aspect that people hardly discuss and look over. 
hpoefully people keep posting since knowbody ever talks about cis anymore.


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## Jade Wombat (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: 83 GTI CIS (ablose1961)*

There's an outline of making an adjustable WUR on http://www.shoptalkforums.com in the FI section under the sticky.


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## The Skeptic (May 31, 2000)

*Re: 83 GTI CIS (Jade Wombat)*

cool!


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