# Timing belt tensioner issue with pics (YES I have searched)



## shifticus (May 4, 2008)

Believe me, I am no stranger to how annoying it is when people post a question that could be answered by searching, however I just can't seem to find the answer to my issue, and I need the car back on the road asap. 
I'm replacing the water pump/timing belt/tensioner following vasillalov's write up, and I'm at the step where I've installed the timing belt tensioner, and I need to set the tension. 
*Having said that, here's my problem: * The tensioner won't keep its pointer in the Y section when I tigthen it (and I'm tightening it to the point where I'm afraid it will strip the threads). I have read that there is a correct position to set the tensioner relative to the engine block, but I am unclear to its exact location (Pic below depicts where I've got it now) It is also unclear in all the posts I've read how to set the center section. I have used needle-nose pliers in the holes to rotate the center section counter clockwise, which effectively tightens the slack in the timing belt to the point where I cannot rotate the belt 90 degrees between the cam gear and the water pump gear (which feels to me like it's adequate) however, the arm isn't pointing to the Y like it should. Help.

tension in the belt. Notice positioning of timing belt tensioner..








Closer pic


----------



## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

Is there a tab on the back side of the tensioner that is supposed to go into a hole on the block so the tensioner doesn't rotate as you apply the tension?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3695262
_Modified by FL 2.0L at 10:51 PM 5-3-2008_

_Modified by FL 2.0L at 10:52 PM 5-3-2008_


_Modified by FL 2.0L at 10:58 PM 5-3-2008_


----------



## shifticus (May 4, 2008)

*Re: (FL 2.0L)*

Yes, but I am unclear as to where it is supposed to go. 
Essentially what I need is to know where exactly the tab is supposed to go, how the inner section (with the two holes) is supposed to be oriented, and how to know that you're at the correct tension in the belt. I'm really kicking myself because I took pictures of just about every step of this process, except for how the old tensioner was set before removing it.


----------



## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

Sorry, I don't have specifics, but when you get the tab to the right spot, then the arrow will point to the Y and you will have proper tension.
Looking at the diy, with tension off the tensioner, the 2 holes are at the bottom (6 o'clock). You can see the indicators are not in the same position as you have them.


_Modified by FL 2.0L at 11:19 PM 5-3-2008_


----------



## shifticus (May 4, 2008)

*Re: (FL 2.0L)*

From playing around with the thing, I don't see how having the tab in the right location will automatically get the pointer right in the Y. To me, it looks like the pointer is independent of the Y, so even if the tab is locked into where it's supposed to be, the pointer is still going to be in the loose position. It seems as though the only way to lock the tensioner in the tight position is to really musclef*ck the nut down.. which I have already done to no success. What am I missing here?


_Modified by shifticus at 8:31 PM 5-3-2008_


----------



## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

Same problem - you gotta find the elliptical hole...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3227606


----------



## shifticus (May 4, 2008)

*Re: (FL 2.0L)*

As a reference to others, I'll post up my experience.
Yes, as you can see in the above picture, I wasn't positioning the tensioner correctly. If you can't see that, I'm telling you it's wrong! The "hole", or relief in the block where the tab is supposed to go is counter clockwise of where I had it in the above picture; As highlighted in the picture below, this positions the tension indicator partially blocked from view by the cam gear, hence one of the reasons why I kept trying to position it elsewhere.
The second thing I learned was that the adjustment of the tensioner is to be done SOLELY by the "U shaped center section".. I was under the impression from vasillalov's pictures that you use your fingers to get the "pointer" in the "Y" area, then tighten the thing down, which obviously doesn't work. *Once you have the tab anchored in the relief, you adjust the tension by the two holes of the U shaped center section through the use of needle nose pliers, then tighten the nut down.* This is what I learned, and I hope it might help others that stumble under a similar predicament.
Here is my finished picture, since I never actually came upon one showing me what a correctly located and set tensioner should look like. That being said, if this looks wrong, please indicate.. The car does run fine, however.









_Modified by shifticus at 8:11 AM 5-9-2008_


_Modified by shifticus at 8:17 AM 5-9-2008_


----------



## shifticus (May 4, 2008)

*Re: (shifticus)*

BTW, thank you FL 2.0L for your timely responses and willingness to help.
I also want to include that I didn't know which way the crank rotates when running (I work on small block chevies and a mopar flathead 6). It's *clockwise* when looking at the crank. 
I also converted the torque values for the motor mount bolts to US units, as my old-time snap on torque wrench don't have no metric. I have since thrown my calculations away, but if memory serves correctly it was*74 lb-ft for the mount-to-motor bolts and 18 lb-ft for the mount-to-body bolts*. These values were based on 100 N-m and 25 N-m, respectively, however they were for a 1.8t as that is all I could find on these boards. 
Other than that, this was pretty straightforward. I would reccomend going ahead and doing this to most people if you're unsure, but I must put emphasis on a couple of things:
-You need to really be careful about getting the timing belt lined up right. If you don't, I'm sure it will be a real nightmare finding the correct cam timing if you run the motor, not to mention potential valve-to-piston contact and corresponding valvetrain damage that may entail
-You need to make sure all pulleys are aligned and you don't throw your timing belt. Visually inspect it before closing everything up. Run the car where you're working on it and pull the upper timing belt cover to take a peek. While doing this, also
-Inspect for coolant leaking. VW really made it a PITA for this in that you need to mostly re-assemble everything before giving it a test run, or you can attach the coolant reservoir and have to monkey around it to install everything else. I ran the engine with the motor still on a jack, the mount bolts threaded but not torqued. The philosophy is, if you have a problem, minimize what you have to remove to take care of it.
-When driving around for the next while, be wary of your repair. Keep the radio off and listen for new sounds. Chances are you caused them, and let me tell you that they aren't going to just go away or take care of themselves. Go over your work before damage is caused if this is the case. Also, inspect the bottom of the timing cover area for leaking coolant. My girlfriend (whose car this is) so convieniently relieved me of the need to remove plastic covering by hitting something, or someone, so this covering is non existant on her car. I suggest you leave this off for a while and keep an eye on this area for leaking coolant.
-If at all possible, leave yourself excess time and another mode of transportation when doing this, or anything to your car for that matter. You WILL run into a problem and it WILL take longer than planned. If you plan for it, you will minimize the effect it will have on other parts of your life as well as have a clearer, calmer state when working and lessen your chances of making a mental error. 
That's all I can say for now. For those shlums who are having an issue and come across this.. you'll get through it. Remember, it's all a learning experience. 


_Modified by shifticus at 8:09 AM 5-9-2008_


----------



## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

Your welcome. I wish I could have given you the information you just posted, but I'm less familiar with the MKIV. This thread will be a huge help for future searchers!


----------



## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

*Re: (FL 2.0L)*

Bump - Shifticus, or anyone else who has set the tensioner, I have a question:
Have you noticed that the tensioner indicator, once set correctly, will move to some extent, and indicate higher than, and lower than optimal tension?
After setting my tensioner to spec as per Bentley's instructions (arrow indicator in the middle of the target 'V'), I rotated my engine by hand (with 1 finger as I'm super huge - more like with both noodle arms and a breaker bar!). Afterward I noticed my tensioner was indicating higher than before. I rotated the engine again, this time it ended up indicating lower.
It became apparent that depending on how the crankshaft comes to rest, the tension on the timing belt changes. My thoughts on this are that this is due to the valve springs imposing varrying resistance on the belt, as they are cycled through their various stages of open and closed. 
Anyway, my question is - is this normal for the tension indicator to move and indicate anything other than optimal? The tensioner is spring loaded, and seems able to move on its own. So perhaps this is normal, but I wanted to make sure of this before I drive the car too far.
Thanks,
Jim


----------



## PedroV1 (Aug 9, 2007)

*Re: Timing belt tensioner issue with pics (shifticus)*

Dude thank you for posting this...it totally saved my neck this weekend while replacing my TB, pump, etc...I almost got a hernia trying to get tension on the pulley while it was in the wrong position..I kept muscling the eff out of it...but after finding this thread and applying the knowledge found here it worked like a charm...


----------



## mino210 (Sep 15, 2007)

this thread saved my A$$:laugh:.


----------



## woodhog62 (Jun 2, 2011)

*Timing belt tensioner advice*

The information contained in this thread is helpful but is better explained and easier to understand if those who attempt to mess with the timing belt First go to your local library and view the Chilton manual for the vehicle you are working on. (most libraries will have a manual available). Or go to your local auto parts discount store and purchase the Chilton manual. If you intend to do most of your own repairs it is money well spent! You can do it, just get a little help from the manual before you start.


----------



## AbuNigel (Jul 11, 2009)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Bump - Shifticus, or anyone else who has set the tensioner, I have a question:
> Have you noticed that the tensioner indicator, once set correctly, will move to some extent, and indicate higher than, and lower than optimal tension?
> After setting my tensioner to spec as per Bentley's instructions (arrow indicator in the middle of the target 'V'), I rotated my engine by hand (with 1 finger as I'm super huge - more like with both noodle arms and a breaker bar!). Afterward I noticed my tensioner was indicating higher than before. I rotated the engine again, this time it ended up indicating lower.
> It became apparent that depending on how the crankshaft comes to rest, the tension on the timing belt changes. My thoughts on this are that this is due to the valve springs imposing varrying resistance on the belt, as they are cycled through their various stages of open and closed.
> ...


im wondering this too, any thoughts?


----------



## AbuNigel (Jul 11, 2009)

Anyone? About to do my t belt tomorrow!!


----------



## fastinradford (Aug 3, 2010)

I set it to the arrow, rotate it over by hand 2x, and set it again and never think about it again. 

I have done at least 40 mk4 timing belts and never had an issue. 

It's a 2.0, someone brought a car into me once with the tensioner not in the tab and the belt completely loose.. 

Ran ok too, haha, had the dealer do the tb/wp 3 months ago!!!!


----------



## sperlinjr (Apr 8, 2012)

*After Yeas later this post saved my bacon & mu 2.0 engine!!!!!!!!!!!*

OK, so I had the same problem. Didnt take the time to research the hole where the tensioner pulley tab goes. So I decided to run the tension up and put it all back together. Not a good idea. it(the car) runs ok but the tensioner made a funny noise. So i had two options, one leave it like it is with the tenioner slightly misaligned and making some noise or tear the thing all the way back down again and do right. Well to keep from breaking the timing belt and bending the valves I started ALL over AGAIN!!(you may want to shed a small tear at that point like me but its REAL easy the second time) Thanks to all who contributed to this post!!!! 

one thing I will say is the hole where the tensioner tab goes is at about the 10 to 11 o'clock position. right wehe the needle nose pliers are pointing! 

Thanks AGAIN ALL!!!!!!!:banghead:


----------



## boost_addicted (Mar 5, 2009)

Great thread, but I have another question about the tensioner. 

Alldata says 

" Before tensioning camshaft drive belt turn tensioning roller on eccentric with a pin wrench T10020 five times in both directions fully onto the stops"

I do not understand this statement. The center eccentric part of the tensioner is the sole adjustment for tension, correct?

I set up a 2.0L Beetle yesterday using some snap ring pliers. I checked t-belt tension and it was a little tight (just past the pointer alignment, clockwise), but i figured if the belt stretches a little it will be fine and save me from readjusting it down the road. 

Well suprise suprise my timing belt jumped a few teeth. I had it idling for a couple of 15 min periods. and when I went to start it up the last time I immediately noticed that uneven compression sound. 

I don't know what happened. Anybody had this issue?


Once I am done work I will be racing home to re-alighn everything and pop the valve cover off to inspect for damage. 

Why would the belt slip on me? Must be tensioner related, no?

Thanks


----------

