# Low RPM Rattle



## audia498 (May 22, 2005)

*Low RPM Rattle UPDATE! Need Help.*

My car has been making this rattling noise at low rpm, between 1500 and 2000. The noise stops completely after 2000 and below 1500. A friend of mine and his friend, whom are both Audi techs, told me its something under the valve cover after they put a car stethoscope up to the valve cover. The noise is coming from the passenger side of the motor. So, with their advice, I took the valve cover off to see if the cams were worn or of the cam carriers were loose, but this didn't show any signs of wear or looseness. No CEL, nothing. I'm completely lost and have about had it with the damn car.


----------



## MrJeeg (Mar 3, 2001)

Heat shield?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Cam tensioner, though that's on the driver's side end of the head.


----------



## lite1979 (Sep 9, 2005)

Take off the upper timing cover and poke around near the tensioner/idler pulley. That's where a rattle will be the most catrostrophic at any rate. If you can, record the audio and upload it to youtube or soundcloud; maybe one of us will recognize it. Hopefully it's something simple, but my heatshield still hasn't come loose after twelve years and 136,000 miles.


----------



## audia498 (May 22, 2005)

It's weird because I noticed it only makes the noise once the car is fully warmed up. Until then, there is no rattle or knock or whatever the heck it is... I'll try to get a video or sound clip.


----------



## audia498 (May 22, 2005)

Not the best. I'll definitely try to get a better video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtvHL7A4il4&feature=youtu.be


----------



## lite1979 (Sep 9, 2005)

It sounded like that clip was "all rattle." A clip that's "no rattle, then rattle" would be more helpful. Kind of sounds like the heat shield. I'd jack her up and check it out.


----------



## audia498 (May 22, 2005)

*Here are links to HQ videos*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQLmyXyjpx4&feature=youtu.be 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vOVpabGnks&feature=youtu.be


Let me know what you think


----------



## audia498 (May 22, 2005)

From what I've come across it sounds like a cam tensioner issue. I found a video from another 1.8t owner and his car had the exact same noise. I guess oil heating up and the viscosity changing upon the heat cycle has some effect on the function of the cam tensioner. WHAT IS THE PROCEDURE TO CHANGE ONE OF THESE THINGS? ARE THERE ANY WRITEUP'S?


----------



## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

audia498 said:


> From what I've come across it sounds like a cam tensioner issue. I found a video from another 1.8t owner and his car had the exact same noise. I guess oil heating up and the viscosity changing upon the heat cycle has some effect on the function of the cam tensioner. WHAT IS THE PROCEDURE TO CHANGE ONE OF THESE THINGS? ARE THERE ANY WRITEUP'S?


You'll need the tool to compress the tensioner. Other than that, it can be done without removing the timing belt. You have to unbolt all the intake camshaft caps and time everything when you reinstall. All in all, it's not that bad and can be done in a few hours. I have to change my VCT gasket and half moon plug this weekend so I can take some pics if you want. Obviously, make sure you get the gasket and half moon and I'd RTV the heck out of the half moon as it's a common leak point on the 1.8T's.


----------



## audia498 (May 22, 2005)

Nice. I just came across this write-up. Doesn't seem too bad, just time consuming. http://www.passatworld.com/forums/6...732-how-replace-1-8t-cam-chain-tensioner.html


I did, however, just change the cam tensioner gasket and half moon and used rtv. Do you think I should replace it again?

I'm just hoping that this is whats really wrong. Because it does sound like its coming from the passenger side. Maybe it's just the way the noise travels through the valve cover...i dunno


----------



## audia498 (May 22, 2005)

Should the timing chain be changed while i'm in there and have everything torn apart?


----------



## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

audia498 said:


> Should the timing chain be changed while i'm in there and have everything torn apart?


The chains rarely wear. The phenolic guides on the tensioner crack/break and/or the tensioner quits tension'ing, which causes the noises you're hearing. Use the old screwdriver as a stethoscope trick to see if the noise is really coming from one end or the other.


----------



## audia498 (May 22, 2005)

Well, I've changed the chain tensioner - noise is still present although It sounds like the motor is quieter at idle. I have no idea what this could be. Any insight would be awesome.


----------



## deepblueT (Jan 26, 2008)

audia498 said:


> Well, I've changed the chain tensioner - noise is still present although It sounds like the motor is quieter at idle. I have no idea what this could be. Any insight would be awesome.


put a stethospcope against the alternator, my low RPM rattle was a dying ALT. Bearing. worth checking out


----------



## audia498 (May 22, 2005)

deepblueT said:


> put a stethospcope against the alternator, my low RPM rattle was a dying ALT. Bearing. worth checking out


 Did you listen to the 2 videos I posted? Did yours sound like that?


----------



## lite1979 (Sep 9, 2005)

I bet you have something loose. Have someone hold your motor at noise-making rpm then feel around without trying to mangle your hand, and you might just touch whatever's rattling and quiet it down. Once you find it, you can tighten/glue/zip tie whatever it is and be a happy clam.

Check any of the 10mm bolts that hold vacuum/coolant lines still around/near the valve cover; check the 10mm bolt that holds the coolant line to the turbo behind the motor. That's the best I can come up with right now.


----------



## deepblueT (Jan 26, 2008)

audia498 said:


> Did you listen to the 2 videos I posted? Did yours sound like that?


yes, very similar to what i had. kind of a jingling/grinding. increases with RPMs. if you don't have a stethoscpoe, put a rod or a dowel against the body of the alternater. i put my stethoscope against everything and when i tried the alt. no contest that it was the alt. bearing.


----------



## audia498 (May 22, 2005)

I disconnected the serp belt and ran the car to rule out any bearing related issues in the accessory belt. No change, still makes the noise. I made an appointment with the dealer for next week. Let them deal with it.


----------



## audia498 (May 22, 2005)

*UPDATE!!!!! Oh, please do read!*

Well $331 dollars (diagnostic fee ONLY) later I figured out where the noise was coming from - the timing belt dampner, although this was just changed with the routine timing service that was performed about 2 months ago (or 4k miles previously). As my research suggests, this part - which I ordered through ECS - is prone to failure. So now I apparently have to pay to basically have the timing service done AGAIN minus most of the timing parts. Awesome. 

My experience with the dealer is another story. Initially it was supposed to be a $95 diagnostic fee, which was discussed between me and the service adviser. I took my car there for service on Tuesday, and apparently it took them until Thursday to diagnose the car despite me telling them EVERYTHING I have already done to eliminate the usual suspects (remove serp belt to see if noise still exists, change the cam chain adjuster, new motor mounts). They call me on Wednesday to tell me they have had no luck diagnosing the problem as of yet but they had an idea that it was coming from behind the timing cover, and that I had the choice to either 1. stop right now and still pay the $95 diagnostic fee despite not being able to locate the problem, or 2. it would be ONLY another 2 hours to diagnose the car, at which point I was told "that i'm looking at a total of $218 + tax." I took this as it's only going to be another $100 to figure it out, although I was just charged a $95 for a diagnostic fee for something they didn't diagnose. Imagine my surprise when I get the bill and its $331, and they didn't even replace any parts! Upon my calm inquiry to the cost of the job with one of the other advisers, who I've dealt with before and thought was a decent person, I get this response: "I'm not arguing with you about the price, Mr. ----. If you have a problem with it, then don't bring your car down here (to the dealership) and find someone else." I responded calmly and said "No. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just asking a question about the price because when I spoke with ---- yesterday..." Then she interrupts me saying " I'm not ARGUING with you, Mr. ----, and like I said, if you have a problem, we don't need to service your car and you can take it elsewhere." Again, I keep my calm and nicely say "(Name), I'm arguing with you, nor am I pointing fingers, I was just confused and looking for clarification...maybe I misunderstood the other service adviser yesterday." At this point I became accustomed to her automated response and I continued to say, "(Name), again, I'm not arguing with you, and with all due respect, you have some nerve to treat me like an ******* considering I have my car maintenance here and buy parts from this dealership more often than not." She replied, "Your car is ready - we are here until 5." 

A few remarks:

1. How do you justify the additional $200 for 2hrs work of work when you had my car for three days? It took two days for them to NOT figure out what was wrong with my car, but it was only going to take them an additional 2 hours to conclusively to locate the problem? Really?

2. Why not just keep my car until Saturday and just charge another "diagnostic fee" on top of the initial one since it takes 2 1/4 days to determine whats wrong? 

3. I was informed as if it was my problem that the "techs don't really profit from this service and that it takes away from other jobs they could be profiting from." Had I known that there were certain "conditions" to the initial $95 diagnostic fee (which I was not aware of at the time of dropping off my car), I would have gladly give the job to a trusted local mechanic. I thought I was really bending over for $200+tax. Boy was I mistaken.

4. Lesson Learned - Joke is on them because not only will I never service my car there, but my girlfriend - who dead set on buying a new A4 from that dealership in the next few months - is totally turned off by the way I was treated, almost as if it was a privilege to have my car serviced there. F-That.


----------



## gotmiked (Mar 2, 2013)

I came across this thread and I have the EXACT same rattle as you, which is going to force me to go ahead and change the timing belt about 5k ahead of schedule. Do you think the faulty dampner had anything to do with ECS or shipping? Just a fluke perhaps? I don't want to order from ECS and end up with the exact same problem...so far my purchases from them have been great.


----------



## lite1979 (Sep 9, 2005)

The faulty damper had nothing to do with shipping; our cars take on a lot of bumps, revs, and turns and the damper is never supposed to rattle. It's more likely a manufacturing flaw, but of the dozens of posts I've read regarding a rattling damper, I've only gathered that you should stick with the OEM brand damper to avoid this problem; still others say they've had bad OEM ones, so it's a bit of a crapshoot. I order from GAP since they're also in NY and they tend to ship really quickly to me here in Buffalo; I've never had a problem with any of their dampers, and I've done a few 1.8t timing belt jobs over the years with no complaints/failures.


----------

