# Fuel Cut 2.0T



## Gunjr (Jun 1, 2002)

I thought that it may be a good time to start a post on the fuel cut issues on the 2.0T. Feel free to comment if this is a re-post. Does anybody have the final solution to our fuel cut problems and possibly a DYI set of instruction on how to replace the fuel pressure valve.  [URL=http://photobucket.com/]


_Modified by Gunjr at 2:24 PM 1-9-2007_


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## Gunjr (Jun 1, 2002)

*Re: Fuel Cut 2.0T (Gunjr)*

Ha....someone must have posted this topic at the same time as me...


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## DioLeonTFSI (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: Fuel Cut 2.0T (Gunjr)*

I have the above revised (BWA block) Limiting Valve and I am experiencing fuel cuts even with the revised Valve


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## Gunjr (Jun 1, 2002)

Any updates here guys? I still have the fuel cut problem even in warm weather.


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## EurodealerTX (Oct 16, 2006)

See if I understand this correctly, and see what you guys think about my info...
Most fuel cuts are occuring in 5th and 6th gear during top-end pulls, no?
Perhaps the occasional 4th gear cut?
And often in cold weather when the air is denser and more fuel is required?
Except now people are seeing it in warm weather as well, correct?
What I am being told is...according to Keith and Chris at APR...the fuel cut issue is directly related to the fuel pump on the 2.0FSI. Nothing else.
The stock fuel rail, lines, and injectors are more than up to the task of supporting 300bhp, and even the pump itself does OK with our heavily boosted/chipped motors until higher vehicle speeds are reached, after which time the increased acceleration/engine load required to CONTINUE accelerating the car necessitates a stronger delivery of fuel that the OE pump simply cannot provide, usually from about 4500rpm on up, and again, in 5th and 6th gears.
That is how it has been best explained to me, and it makes sense, particulary since we know how the pump is still driven off the camshaft and engine speeds (RPM) relative to engine loads will produce such an effect.
What I can actually vouch for is...I see all of my cuts consistently at 5k in 5th gear pulls, but I can negate them if I do not go all out WOT in top gears and use only 80% throttle.
Have to hop off right now, but this should be enough to get a discussion going. I don't hav ethe answers or solutions, but I want to get everyone thinking! -M


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## Gunjr (Jun 1, 2002)

*Re: (EurodealerTX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EurodealerTX* »_See if I understand this correctly, and see what you guys think about my info...
Most fuel cuts are occuring in 5th and 6th gear during top-end pulls, no?
Perhaps the occasional 4th gear cut?
And often in cold weather when the air is denser and more fuel is required?
Except now people are seeing it in warm weather as well, correct?
What I am being told is...according to Keith and Chris at APR...the fuel cut issue is directly related to the fuel pump on the 2.0FSI. Nothing else.
The stock fuel rail, lines, and injectors are more than up to the task of supporting 300bhp, and even the pump itself does OK with our heavily boosted/chipped motors until higher vehicle speeds are reached, after which time the increased acceleration/engine load required to CONTINUE accelerating the car necessitates a stronger delivery of fuel that the OE pump simply cannot provide, usually from about 4500rpm on up, and again, in 5th and 6th gears.
That is how it has been best explained to me, and it makes sense, particulary since we know how the pump is still driven off the camshaft and engine speeds (RPM) relative to engine loads will produce such an effect.
What I can actually vouch for is...I see all of my cuts consistently at 5k in 5th gear pulls, but I can negate them if I do not go all out WOT in top gears and use only 80% throttle.
Have to hop off right now, but this should be enough to get a discussion going. I don't hav ethe answers or solutions, but I want to get everyone thinking! -M
I agree with everything that you have said. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

*Re: (Gunjr)*

I have fuel cuts on 3th and 5th gear (around 5500rpm). It started since I used 93 octane fuel (91 before) at 9k miles.
No mods here, only forge FMIC and DV spacer. and i got the "F" version fuel pump.
Any Idea?


_Modified by EL_3grab at 11:27 AM 3-28-2007_


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## Gunjr (Jun 1, 2002)

*Re: (EL_3grab)*

I think that everybody is still questioning a solution. I will be real happy when someone figures it out.


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## EurodealerTX (Oct 16, 2006)

APR has a nice replacement piece under construction that will fix ALL of these fuel stravation issues! Expect the release sometime in May, or about the same time as their SIII Garret BT kit is released.
Stay tuned - I will keep you all posted as info becomes available, as will Keith and Greg when they post on this board.
For fun, you can also harass APR's gents directly at 334-502-5181. Just don't mention me!
As it stands they simply recommend going with the more mild Stage 1 93-program instead of the Beta, and Revo Stage 1 instead of SII for Revo users.
Problem is NONE of us who have experienced the increase in performance from the additional boost are going to give it up when the car runs fine most of the time! We just live with the fuel cuts for now.
I actually find mine to be humorous now that I know what it is and what is causing it! Keeps me below 120 during spirited sprints... =-Þ
Now you know!
-M


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## 355890 (Aug 10, 2006)

*Re: (EurodealerTX)*

Please keep us posted?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## NEW2B (Dec 1, 2006)

keith posted this on the oy udate thread.
"stage 2 is ready for 07's and has the beta file info from the 06's integrated into the prodcution 07 s2+ with no fuel cut. "
so the fuel cut issue is mechanical or software related? im confused now.


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## EurodealerTX (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (NEW2B)*

Software related in that the more aggressive tunes with higher boost that necessitate additional fuel flow above 5k rpm or else fuel cut is encountered? Yes.
All goes back to the original source of the problem - fuel pump running out of breath to keep up!
Call or IM Keith if you need more info than what I have to provide - he is an encyclopedia for these cars!








-M


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (EurodealerTX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EurodealerTX* »_As it stands they simply recommend going with the more mild Stage 1 93-program instead of the Beta, and Revo Stage 1 instead of SII for Revo users.


I don't think APR is in any position to be saying which REVO software people should be running. I run stage II REVO at boost 9 and have zero issues with fuel cut or TB closing which many people have (with various software) but don't always realize since boost pressure can remain somewhat normal.


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## 2zzge (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_
I don't think APR is in any position to be saying which REVO software people should be running. I run stage II REVO at boost 9 and have zero issues with fuel cut or TB closing which many people have (with various software) but don't always realize since boost pressure can remain somewhat normal.

i'm running REVO stg2 and have not encountered any fuel cuts in 5th gear at any rpm...i run out of road in 6th gear







so..?
as the weather changes here (socal) i'll be sure and post up any problems i run into.
while i don't doubt that its a hardware issue that can be exacerbated with performance software, i want to keep an open mind to the possibility of it being more than one 'weak-link' in the chain working together to foil our fun.


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## JumpalTurbo5 (Feb 21, 2003)

*Re: (PD Performance)*

This is good discussion. Thanks everyone for informative contribution
and posting. For those who experienced fuel cut, under what 
circumstances do you experience fuel cut & what do you oberve?
What I hear is this happens only at WOT, high speed cruising, and 
suddenly accelerator does not respond for a while, but it comes back
after a while. I would like to know if you guys are also experiencing
the same or not. Thanks again.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (JumpalTurbo5)*

Pardon my ignorance, but I've only had my 2.0T for about 1,400 miles so far... 300 of them have been while flashed. What exactly does "fuel cut" feel like on the 2.0T engine? I know what it feels like on the DSM platforms.


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## thomaschh (May 30, 2006)

*Re: (ruso)*

It feels like the turbo no longer works, essentially. Watching my boost guage, once fuel cut kicks in I can't ge the car to make any boost at all. You'll notice it, trust me.
As for the supposed "solution" re: a new fuel pump - do you really think that if it were that easy it would still be a problem? A fuel pump isn't exactly a complex piece of machinery. and there are TONS of high-flow fuel pumps on the market right now, as we discuss this.


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## EurodealerTX (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (thomaschh)*

'As for the supposed "solution" re: a new fuel pump - do you really think that if it were that easy it would still be a problem? A fuel pump isn't exactly a complex piece of machinery. and there are TONS of high-flow fuel pumps on the market right now, as we discuss this.'
Perhaps, but these aren't Chevy trucks or Ford Focuses - this is all new technology to most of us enthusiasts and tuners and it takes time to produce a safe, reliable product with no issues upstream - do I even need to mention how sensitive these cars are mechanically with CELs from the slightest little change in operating condition? As per time sake, look at how long Forge has taken to perfect their DV solution...something that seems simple enough as BOVs and DVs have been around for nearly two decades. But again...application specific, and these cars are not wind-up toys.
Addressing the other concern from PD PErformance...I did not explain APR's info properly - they never mentioned Revo specifically as that is not their turf. I was simply listing the other aggressive program out there for the sake of example.
I am interested that no Revo users have experienced fuel cut despite their strong dyno #s, just as I am interested to see if it is possible to get around the FC issue with a better program.
Wait...a better program than APR's?







Skeptical but I will surely listen!
-M


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (EurodealerTX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EurodealerTX* »_
Wait...a better program than APR's?







Skeptical but I will surely listen!
-M

With a comment like that its not even worth considering further disucssion since its apparent you have already made up your mind.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (thomaschh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomaschh* »_and there are TONS of high-flow fuel pumps on the market right now, as we discuss this.









right but none are made to be driven by a cam and provide the levels of pressure needed in the high pressure FSI fuel system. are any of the pumps you speek of made for FSI or DISI....NO







and so we wait


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## HYPERGUY710 (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_
With a comment like that its not even worth considering further disucssion since its apparent you have already made up your mind.

werd. biased much.


_Modified by HYPERGUY710 at 4:04 PM 3-29-2007_


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## EurodealerTX (Oct 16, 2006)

I intended the last line witha degree of jocularity about 'better than APR.'
I do not mean to come off as a die-hard APR guy. There are other good products out there for software tuning and I will listen if PD or anyone else has legitimate technical info regarding a product and its superior design, or just something about it that sets it apart from the rest.
I make it a point to never confine myself to a line of products simply because of the brand name. It's the same reason car audio guys who love Focal speakers will typically not run Focal's amps and subs for a well-tuned system - they understand that every company in the performance aftermarket (audio, engine management, or otherwise) has something they specialize in that is either their flagship product for its quality, or is simply an often overlooked piece that deserves recognition.
I will be mindful not to toot the APR horn in subsequent posts from here on out, less I risk these threads deforming into a 'my brand is better than your brand' conglomeration of religious banter that is void of the techincal and factual substance that makes this forum great.
Put simply - sorry for the misrepresentation!
-M


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## NoahsGTI (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: (EurodealerTX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EurodealerTX* »_See if I understand this correctly, and see what you guys think about my info...
Most fuel cuts are occuring in 5th and 6th gear during top-end pulls, no?
Perhaps the occasional 4th gear cut?
And often in cold weather when the air is denser and more fuel is required?
Except now people are seeing it in warm weather as well, correct?
What I am being told is...according to Keith and Chris at APR...the fuel cut issue is directly related to the fuel pump on the 2.0FSI. Nothing else.
The stock fuel rail, lines, and injectors are more than up to the task of supporting 300bhp, and even the pump itself does OK with our heavily boosted/chipped motors until higher vehicle speeds are reached, after which time the increased acceleration/engine load required to CONTINUE accelerating the car necessitates a stronger delivery of fuel that the OE pump simply cannot provide, usually from about 4500rpm on up, and again, in 5th and 6th gears.
That is how it has been best explained to me, and it makes sense, particulary since we know how the pump is still driven off the camshaft and engine speeds (RPM) relative to engine loads will produce such an effect.
What I can actually vouch for is...I see all of my cuts consistently at 5k in 5th gear pulls, but I can negate them if I do not go all out WOT in top gears and use only 80% throttle.
Have to hop off right now, but this should be enough to get a discussion going. I don't hav ethe answers or solutions, but I want to get everyone thinking! -M

I've been experiencing the Fuel Cut issue on my 07 APR Stage IIb Chipped DSG GTI. I've been talking with Keith to get something tested on my GTI to ensure that it's ready for release to GTI owners. 
May sounds like a good timeline to me.








And yes, the symptoms you have listed above are accurate.


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## vRStu (Sep 11, 2006)

Do any of you have the "PCV Fix" and still get cut out?


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## Gunjr (Jun 1, 2002)

*Re: (vRStu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vRStu* »_Do any of you have the "PCV Fix" and still get cut out?
I updated my PCV 2-3weeks ago and I still have the fuel cut.


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## crazywayne311 (Jan 29, 2006)

hmm, yeah so even though the stage 2 beta kicks ass, the more reliable software would be the stage 2 then


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: Fuel Cut 2.0T (Gunjr)*

Can you pull your engine # with vag-com?
It would possibly be something like BPYXXXXXXXXX


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: Fuel Cut 2.0T (syntrix)*

Are you also getting a p2293?


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: Fuel Cut 2.0T (syntrix)*

Known issue...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3156063
...check the "special notes" section of our wiki.








http://wiki.ross-tech.com/inde...08851
P.S.: Even though you don't get the P2293/008851 it's most likely the same problem...


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## vio206 (May 30, 2006)

+1 for Fuel Cuts








Basically if you log it with a vag-com what you see is a throttle cut..not fuel cut... what i mean is that there is no pressure drop at the fuel rail pressure
To me it occurs at 3,4,5,6th gear at about 6200rpm. It all started after the installation of the evoms vflow. To be honest it started after the 400 first kilometers of the famous "adaptation" that our ecu does







after the istallation of the vflow. These cuts are like you release the pedal and you press it again.. If you log the actual boost you will see it dropping from 0,7bar to 0,3bar and then back to 0,7









Giac chip + evoms vflow


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## Franky 4 Fingers (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Fuel Cut 2.0T (vio206)*

I have had the fuel cuts myself, usually in 5th and 6th gears. The other day I got it for the first time in 4th. I have stage 2b from APR. Keith had a post that stated the new APR program to go with the dealer OY flash removes all fuel cuts. I'm going to give it a try with my next dealer service.


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## bigbumpmike (Aug 26, 2003)

i have had this on my stage two revo car and i learn to drive around it i can pretty much tell when it is going to do it by watching the boost gauge, it would spike a pound higher and twitch and then if i kept in it it would fuel cut. but i learned you don't have to drive the car up there that high to get all that power. the only time it is annoying is when i go to make a pass in 6th instead of just droping down.


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## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (bigbumpmike)*

What are your setings?


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## bigbumpmike (Aug 26, 2003)

fuel 9 timing 5 boost 7


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## crazywayne311 (Jan 29, 2006)

what are you doing mike?!


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## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (bigbumpmike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bigbumpmike* »_fuel 9 timing 5 boost 7 

Interesting, I have run much more aggressive settings then that and not had fuel cut.
when I reflash myself with the post recall file I will redo alot of testing if I have time... very busy finishing up my house and closing down the currently location before I move.


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## bigbumpmike (Aug 26, 2003)

on the way to H20 talk with local revo guy from NC and he pushed the boost up hopeing to get rid of it but it just lessen the chances in cold weather i would it rarly after that i think settings went to boost 8 or 9


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## DocDubman (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: (crazywayne311)*

the problem is due to the way our fuel pumps are driven, they are driven of the cam so when then ecu is tuned the pump cannot realease the right amount of fuel to compensate for the extra power and that cause the fuel cut, That is the reason why companies like V-F and APR and REVO are engineering different internals for their big turbo upgrades, the fuel pump is the problem. It will not cause any damage you will just simply have to wait until an option is available, this is why power gains on big turbo are not impressive and why they are few and far between http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gifHINT: JUST WAIT FOR REVO'S STAGE 3 TRUST ME


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## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (DocDubman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DocDubman* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gifHINT: JUST WAIT FOR REVO'S STAGE 3 TRUST ME









x2


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## bigbumpmike (Aug 26, 2003)

yeah i am waiting for revo to come out with there stage three i would send them my car to be used for it if they like


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## mikes96GTI (Jan 22, 2003)

*Re: (bigbumpmike)*

well, If its anything like the BMW 335's direct injection, MINIMUM pressure is 50 BAR, I had a 4 Bar reg in my S/C VR, max pressure at the injector is 200 BAR! And I've changed a few of these already for low pressure, So these fuel pumps have to put out a ****load of pressure to keep the FSI in good working order


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## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (mikes96GTI)*

Max pressure on the VW/Audi fsi is about 120 bar for arguements sake.


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