# Didn't use VW Approved 508 00 oil and now car has faint ticking/knocking noise. Screwed?



## IridiumB6 (Nov 29, 2010)

Basically what the title says, I wanted to do an oil change myself and stupidly didn't purchase a VW approved oil, just banking on the fact that Mobil 1 oil is reputable and good enough for VW use too. It's obviously a full synthetic and 0W-20 weight, and an extended life oil, but the engine has developed a faint ticking/knocking noise at idle in drive. It sounds almost like the older 2.0 FSI engines of yesteryear. 

Is this normal/will go away with time or should I just bite the bullet, drain it, and put in VW approved oil ASAP? Thanks.


EDIT: 

Here's a video with the engine sound 

https://imgur.com/1ALi6Op


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## brianbgw (Mar 29, 2011)

It’s probably all in your head. All direct injected engines have a bit of ticking that you can hear at idle, the EA888 gen 3B included. I think you’re probably fine.

That said, I would always recommend using a factory approved oil. If it were me, and I had even the faintest thought that the oil was causing a new noise, I would drain and refill with something approved immediately just to rule it out.


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## Rhodyvr6 (Sep 9, 2009)

As mentioned chances are you’re over thinking it... the 3b is NOT a quiet engine. I change oil every 5k and just order oem oil/filter/plug from ECS or fcp euro it’s not very expensive really and the proper oem oil. Mobil one is usually fine but for just a hair more you don’t need to worry or think about it. 


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## IridiumB6 (Nov 29, 2010)

brianbgw said:


> It’s probably all in your head. All direct injected engines have a bit of ticking that you can hear at idle, the EA888 gen 3B included. I think you’re probably fine.
> 
> That said, I would always recommend using a factory approved oil. If it were me, and I had even the faintest thought that the oil was causing a new noise, I would drain and refill with something approved immediately just to rule it out.
> 
> ...


Thanks, yeah it's definitely not going to happen again, sometimes I think it sounds normal, other times I feel like it isn't. Either way peace of mind is definitely worth the extra price tag.


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## Remzac (Nov 25, 2007)

Don't tell anyone else, especially the dealership. Volkswagen, if you ever need engine warranty they look at the service records and if you have been changing oil yourself, you have to prove that you changed oil with the correct specification at the right intervals.
If the incorrect spec is used in my experience, the engine temperature reads 9 Celsius higher cruising down the highway. 20 degrees. Hot engines.
Never heard of anyone needing engine warranty if correctly serviced.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

IridiumB6 said:


> Thanks, yeah it's definitely not going to happen again, sometimes I think it sounds normal, other times I feel like it isn't. Either way peace of mind is definitely worth the extra price tag.


You could use any possible engine oil available and the engine would be fine. Don't over-think this.


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## KCJeep (Dec 5, 2018)

The other kicker is the VW 508 oils have a special tracer dye in it as well. Even if you use 0w20, your dealer will be able to tell if you used approved oil or not. I'd drain it and refill, even though I don't think the Mobil 1 is hurting your engine one bit, I might be hurting your warranty.


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## SwiftGTI (Jul 15, 2011)

My engine sounds the same and it's on the approved spec oil. I wouldn't worry about it. I would definitely change out the oil for warranty purposes though and save your receipts.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

Drain and fill with correct fluid.

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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

IridiumB6 said:


> Basically what the title says, I wanted to do an oil change myself and stupidly didn't purchase a VW approved oil, just banking on the fact that Mobil 1 oil is reputable and good enough for VW use too. It's obviously a full synthetic and 0W-20 weight, and an extended life oil, but the engine has developed a faint ticking/knocking noise at idle in drive. It sounds almost like the older 2.0 FSI engines of yesteryear.
> 
> Is this normal/will go away with time or should I just bite the bullet, drain it, and put in VW approved oil ASAP? Thanks.
> 
> ...



I hear the ticking you're worried about but it's really fairly infrequent compared to engine speed. I perceive it at a little less than 1 tick per second. Maybe .75hz.

Let's say you'd just started the engine and it's at 1,200 RPM high idle (that's even a high number). 1200R/M / 60s/min = 20revs/s
We'd expect anything universal to the engine internals to be ticking at 20 times per second (you wouldn't be able to count this). If it were related to the intake or exhaust valves you'd cut that by 2, or 10 ticks per second. (a four stroke engine completes an entire cycle in two revolutions, four total up/down strokes). This is still REALL fast. I doubt you could start and stop a stopwatch within 1/10 of second.

The turbo is "geared" to at least several times engine speed. Ex: 3,000 RPM engine speed could b 10,000RPM turbo speed.
Since you're parked the torque converter and entire drivetrain are not involved here.

In short: the engine would have to be operating at under 160 RPM for that sound to be caused by anything that your oil would touch.

There's no internal part of the engine that could be causing the ticking you're hearing. It has to be a belt driven accessory or some electrically driven component to be at such a slow rate. Unless my initial estimate of the ticking rate is off by a factor of about 8, you have nothing to worry about.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

zackdawley said:


> Drain and fill with correct fluid....


 Based on what information?


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## ben tumbling (Oct 9, 2009)

fwiw mobil 1 has vw508 too


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## burtomr (Jun 17, 2010)

Mobil 1 ESP 0W-20 is VW-508 approved:

https://www.mobil.com/en-us/passenger-vehicle-lube/pds/gl-xx-mobil-1-esp-x2-0w20


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## bry1216 (May 15, 2004)

*Look up oil on link for VW*

Technical Service Bulletin - Transaction No: 2012855/21

17-19-01 - Volkswagen Engine Oil Quality Standards (U.S. Only)
Release date: 6/13/2019

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10161673-0001.pdf


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## jdavidv (Jul 4, 2017)

I'll get hate mail for saying this, but I let the VW dealer do my oil changes during the warranty period...and I have it changed every 5K miles, not 10K. Yes, it's a rip at $95/change but if an internal engine issue ever comes up then VW will try their best to blame it on you.

When I bought my used 2016 Golf 1.8 TSI I also bought an extended warranty; the fine print required oil changes every 5K, and that's my comfort level for a turbocharged engine. Top speed on the VW turbo's is around 125,000 rpm; those are some high-precision bearings. So practice gentle warmup, allow adequate cooldown, and keep clean oil in the engine. 

I still have my 1.8L Golf, and a 2017 GTI Sport also. They both get the same treatment. Clean fluids are important !


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## SoTxBill (Jan 14, 2001)

Well.... since you have basically confessed and posted a video...... on a public forum... Yes,,, your probably screwed... by giving vw everything they need... But I am not a lawyer. I would change the oil back to the correct oil immediately if not sooner..... and hope the problem goes away. Best of luck..


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## paramedick (Mar 12, 2003)

KCJeep said:


> The other kicker is the VW 508 oils have a special tracer dye in it as well. Even if you use 0w20, your dealer will be able to tell if you used approved oil or not. I'd drain it and refill, even though I don't think the Mobil 1 is hurting your engine one bit, I might be hurting your warranty.


Please remember, the Moss-Magnuson Act says you can use ANY product that MEETS OR EXCEEDS the requisite standard. Keep your oil change record, the purchase receipt, and a cutout of the oil bottle showing compliance. Staple them together keep them in an envelope. Pull them out if you need them. Suggest your dealer speak to the Consumer Product Safety Commission if they have an issue. Or any good lawyer can write a letter suggesting they comply with federal law.

In other words, VW can go pound sand if they try to make you use their oil. Others, like me, don’t like Castrol oil.


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## Remzac (Nov 25, 2007)

When I was at the dealership for an oil change the parts manager mentioned that Volkswagen changed to Mobile oil worldwide on February 2020.
Castrol is no longer offered


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

jdavidv said:


> .....Clean fluids are important !


To the folks that sell oil, not the engine.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

paramedick said:


> ....Others, like me, don’t like Castrol oil.


Due to the color of the bottle? The label? Show us facts.


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

paramedick said:


> ... you can use ANY product that MEETS OR EXCEEDS the requisite standard. ...


Keep in mind that the "508" standard is simply 0w20 oil with "long life addatives". There's really nothing special about the required oil. The "long life" is because VW wanted to spec out 10k oil changes rather than 3k or 5x interval.
It would be pretty rare for there to be an engine issue due to manufacture defect (yes, it can happen but it's rare) and you would have to go pretty far afield from 0w20 to cause damage to the engine.

Basically: do something near "the right thing" and stop worrying about this. You're far more likely to get rear-ended than have an issue with internal engine parts and VW's warranty.


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## BranSolo (Sep 30, 2020)

I'm not a big fan of the VW recommended Castrol oil, I prefer to use Pentosin or Liqui Moly, but stick to the Castrol until you're past warranty. Mobil isn't really made for European engine standards, but it's really up to your own discretion as the owner of your car.


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## Remzac (Nov 25, 2007)

BranSolo said:


> I'm not a big fan of the VW recommended Castrol oil, I prefer to use Pentosin or Liqui Moly, but stick to the Castrol until you're past warranty. Mobil isn't really made for European engine standards, but it's really up to your own discretion as the owner of your car.


It's Mobile oil now


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

gerardrjj said:


> Keep in mind that the "508" standard is simply 0w20 oil with "long life addatives". There's really nothing special about the required oil. The "long life" is because VW wanted to spec out 10k oil changes rather than 3k or 5x interval.
> It would be pretty rare for there to be an engine issue due to manufacture defect (yes, it can happen but it's rare) and you would have to go pretty far afield from 0w20 to cause damage to the engine.
> 
> Basically: do something near "the right thing" and stop worrying about this. You're far more likely to get rear-ended than have an issue with internal engine parts and VW's warranty.


That's funny, liquimoly specifically warns against using their 508 in any car but calling for 508 specifically.

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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

BranSolo said:


> I'm not a big fan of the VW recommended Castrol oil, I prefer to use Pentosin or Liqui Moly, but stick to the Castrol until you're past warranty. Mobil isn't really made for European engine standards, but it's really up to your own discretion as the owner of your car.


Liquimoly has 508.00 compliant oil. That's all my mechanic uses.

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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

BranSolo said:


> I'm not a big fan of the VW recommended Castrol oil,.....


Could you be specific about your reasoning.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

BranSolo said:


> ....Mobil isn't really made for European engine standards,.....


According to whom?


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## lamune (Dec 8, 2003)

I did the same thing on my car - and not afraid to admit it since both the warranty and statute of limitations are long expired.

When my free oil changes ended and I did my first one myself at home, I used the Mobil 1 I had stockpiled from my previous VR6 powered VW. 5W-30 I think it was. I didn't think anything of it until several thousand miles later when I somehow learned that VW had their own oil spec. I checked and of course the oil I used wasn't on it. As soon as I could, I changed the oil for one on the list, but I took a sample for analysis to see if either the oil itself had any unusual degradation or was contaminated with engine bits. The oil came back as being fine, no unusual engine wear indicators detected. 

I wouldn't be terribly concerned based on my experience.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

lamune said:


> I did the same thing on my car - and not afraid to admit it since both the warranty and statute of limitations are long expired.
> 
> When my free oil changes ended and I did my first one myself at home, I used the Mobil 1 I had stockpiled from my previous VR6 powered VW. 5W-30 I think it was. I didn't think anything of it until several thousand miles later when I somehow learned that VW had their own oil spec. I checked and of course the oil I used wasn't on it. As soon as I could, I changed the oil for one on the list, but I took a sample for analysis to see if either the oil itself had any unusual degradation or was contaminated with engine bits. The oil came back as being fine, no unusual engine wear indicators detected.
> 
> I wouldn't be terribly concerned based on my experience.


Why do folks get the idea that engine oil is some magical substance?


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

GTINC said:


> Why do folks get the idea that engine oil is some magical substance?


Partially from the fact that VW won't just say "use long life synthetic 0w20", they make up these code names "508 specification".

The whole brand loyalty stuff? Marketing is a lot of it. Not understanding correlation vs causation probably drives a lot of it as well. "My dad put Castrol in his car once and it died two weeks later"... no the car was going to die in two weeks no matter what oil you put in it.

Search youtube for "Project Farm". The guy is amazing and has done quite a few tests on engine/motor oils: early changes, Costo and Amazon brands, combining 10 brands in one change, the list goes on. Even some comparison of jet engine oil vs standard automotive level oil.


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## Remzac (Nov 25, 2007)

Nothing magical about the manufacturer's meeting emissions requirements by California. This is why the standards are constantly changing now.


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

Remzac said:


> Nothing magical about the manufacturer's meeting emissions requirements by California. This is why the standards are constantly changing now.


Oil isn't intended to be consumed in combustion so the makeup of the oil should have little to no effect on emissions.
The viscosity being lower reduces internal loss of engine power otherwise used to move the thicker oils, so thinner oil can provide some improvement in fuel economy.


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## KCJeep (Dec 5, 2018)

As an aside, all oils that are actually VW 508 approved have a special identifying dye in them. The dealer will easily be able to tell. Not that other oils will hurt your engine, they most likely won't but they might ding your warranty.


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

KCJeep said:


> As an aside, all oils that are actually VW 508 approved have a special identifying dye in them. The dealer will easily be able to tell. Not that other oils will hurt your engine, they most likely won't but they might ding your warranty.


can you cite a source for that? Is it UV, IR?


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## LarsTomasson (Jul 2, 2018)

It is not really that complex. Just use the oil specified by the manufacturer. They have done allot of testing. They don't make this up for marketing. The dealer has a warranty they need to honor. The cannot require you to only go to a VW dealer for service. So they need to control this risk. That means you need to use an oil that meets a standard that they approve.

My car is on warranty, so I just have the dealer do the oil change. It costs about $85, so I estimate I am paying them $35 more than what it would cost me to do it. In return, I get an hour of my life back to do whatever i want to do, there is no oil spots in my driveway, or slogging waste oil in my car to a disposal site. Plus the dealer gives me a uber ride home, I get to chat with the parts guy, the service advisor, and occasionally one of the mechanics. Paying $35 seems like a no brainer to me.

For my Touareg that is off warranty and takes 9qts, I buy my oil and filter from the dealer. It turns out if I do a internet purchase and pickup at the dealer, it is the cheapest place in town to get VW approved Diesel oil.


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## KCJeep (Dec 5, 2018)

gerardrjj said:


> can you cite a source for that? Is it UV, IR?


Fairly common knowledge, the oil appears green to the eye and does have a UV marker in it for the dealer as well. I have seen it mentioned on Euro Car sites and it is also extensively discussed here on this site and exhaustive discussions of VW 508 elsewhere on that site as well.

VW 508 Spec-0w20 | Page 12 | Bob Is The Oil Guy 

The thing to know though, is any oil that is actually VW 508 approved will be the correct color and have the dye, it's part of the spec.

My dealer is selling genuine VW OEM oil (now Mobil) so cheap (VW 508 is $6.30 a quart today) there is little reason to go elsewhere.


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## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

Any VW 508 oil will have a weird element (Zr) in it, as a "marker" which shows up on a spectrographic analysis in case VW wants to run the $30 test and check what kind of oil you were using. 

Any 0w-20 oil on the market today from a name-brand company will work fine though. Can't blame engine sounds on the engine oil if using a name-brand 0w-20 of any spec.

It doesn't have to be VW 508. Oil meeting dexos1, or the few 0w-20's that meet only SN, have the same HTHS, KV100, and friction modifiers as VW 508 oil, all up to par. No problems.

The VW 508 specification is there to create a better longer lasting oil. So, if using any other brand or type of 0w-20 like this M1 AFE 0w-20, probably should not go past 7,500 miles or so, or 1 year, whichever comes first. (A VW 508 can go a few thousand miles further.)


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## BranSolo (Sep 30, 2020)

GTINC said:


> Could you be specific about your reasoning.


Sorry for the late reply, I've been dealing with a bunch of stuff and haven't been able to log in. 

My issue with Castrol is a personal one as they are a British Petroleum company and are as environmentally friendly as Exxon. 

As far as Mobil oil, I'm a former Air Cooler and have been working in the antique auto industry for 16 years. Mobil is horrible for older European engines, especially air cooled VWs so I've always advised against it for old an new. It may be okay for newer cars, but I just don't use it out of habit.


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## IbsFt (Dec 15, 2018)

LarsTomasson said:


> It is not really that complex. Just use the oil specified by the manufacturer. They have done allot of testing. They don't make this up for marketing. The dealer has a warranty they need to honor. The cannot require you to only go to a VW dealer for service. So they need to control this risk. That means you need to use an oil that meets a standard that they approve.
> 
> ......


X2




VWmechatronic said:


> Any VW 508 oil will have a weird element (Zr) in it, as a "marker" which shows up on a spectrographic analysis in case VW wants to run the $30 test and check what kind of oil you were using.
> 
> Any 0w-20 oil on the market today from a name-brand company will work fine though. Can't blame engine sounds on the engine oil if using a name-brand 0w-20 of any spec.
> 
> ...


Normally I'd agree with the opinion that oil is oil and any quality brand would be ok, but the more I learn about these high strung, over worked little engines, the more those generalizations get kicked to the curb. Look up intake valve carbon build up on Direct Injection engines and you'll see that oil volatility is an important factor to consider with a DI only engine. Since I don't ever recall seeing a volatility specs listed for motor oil, the safe thing to do is to stay with what the factory recommends. It also makes one wonder what other not so obvious reasons there are for the factory recommendations. For those who keep their vehicles long term, the right oil choice is a more important decision than it was in the past.

We usually keep our cars until they go to the scrap yard, but it may be time to rethink that. As part of my normal maintenance I change the oil early, but is that a bad idea now? Do the oil's lighter fractions boil off and then the oil stabilizes? If so, by changing the oil more frequently than recommended am I inadvertently worsening the intake valve carbon deposit problem? I wish I was aware of the DI issues before purchasing the Tig and would have looked for a vehicle with port injection or with port injection in addition to direct injection. Live an learn, $600 to $1,200 for valve cleaning service?? Um, no. Time to research the pros and cons of CRC's intake valve cleaner spray and try to get ahead of this valve buildup issue....


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## Remzac (Nov 25, 2007)

Are there any non DI left?


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## IbsFt (Dec 15, 2018)

Remzac said:


> Are there any non DI left?


Yep. And I thought I read somewhere that the ROW Tigs have both (port and DI).

The intake manifold on our 2019 has bosses for the port injectors. I'm wondering if the plastic is strong enough to be drilled and tapped for plugs that could be removed for spraying cleaner directly on the valves without having to remove the whole manifold. I'd rather not spray the cleaner through the turbo and intercooler, even though they say its safe to do so.


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## IridiumB6 (Nov 29, 2010)

IbsFt said:


> X2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are they really overworked though? I thought VW purposefully under stress these newer engines for reliability reasons. The NA Tiguan is one of the slowest, lethargic engines in the industry. My Passat from 14 years ago had more power...


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## IridiumB6 (Nov 29, 2010)

LarsTomasson said:


> It is not really that complex. Just use the oil specified by the manufacturer. They have done allot of testing. They don't make this up for marketing. The dealer has a warranty they need to honor. The cannot require you to only go to a VW dealer for service. So they need to control this risk. That means you need to use an oil that meets a standard that they approve.
> 
> My car is on warranty, so I just have the dealer do the oil change. It costs about $85, so I estimate I am paying them $35 more than what it would cost me to do it. In return, I get an hour of my life back to do whatever i want to do, there is no oil spots in my driveway, or slogging waste oil in my car to a disposal site. Plus the dealer gives me a uber ride home, I get to chat with the parts guy, the service advisor, and occasionally one of the mechanics. Paying $35 seems like a no brainer to me.
> 
> For my Touareg that is off warranty and takes 9qts, I buy my oil and filter from the dealer. It turns out if I do a internet purchase and pickup at the dealer, it is the cheapest place in town to get VW approved Diesel oil.


Normally I would, the only fault I had was that I have some immuno-compromised members of my family which I wanted to minimize risk by not having to go into the dealership with the car they routinely are in as well. Every little bit counts. I used a brand name oil on sale and bought most of everything else curb side pick up at the dealer. 

Not sure where you live, but $85 oil changes are unheard of, especially for synthetic changes on imports. I'm looking at like $120-$170, so by spending like $60 on everything I saved a pretty penny, it was dead easy and I learned something new. 

Lastly, the noise is more or less gone, or I just don't notice it as much. I routinely check the oil to ensure there aren't any metal shavings, and make sure the level is okay.

PS, another user posted a video about a strange noise their Tiguan made, and it sounded exactly like mine, and it wasn't anything related to oil changes or anything like that.


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## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

Remzac said:


> Are there any non DI left?


 Port fuel injection has been making a comeback of sorts. DI stays, but port is added, so many newer engines now have BOTH. Our VW-Audi Tiguan engine has both in Europe only. Not here. Explained: Why Some Engines Have Both Port and Direct Injection


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## Remzac (Nov 25, 2007)

VWmechatronic said:


> Port fuel injection has been making a comeback of sorts. DI stays, but port is added, so many newer engines now have BOTH. Our VW-Audi Tiguan engine has both in Europe only. Not here. Explained: Why Some Engines Have Both Port and Direct Injection


Interesting. Thank you


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## IbsFt (Dec 15, 2018)

IridiumB6 said:


> Are they really overworked though? I thought VW purposefully under stress these newer engines for reliability reasons. The NA Tiguan is one of the slowest, lethargic engines in the industry. My Passat from 14 years ago had more power...


It's all relative isn't it? The Tig engine may well be a detuned version, but I'm old and used to, and prefer, larger displacement, normally aspirated gasoline engines. The Tig should have a non turbo V6 as an option. While the small turbocharged engines, like the Tig's, are a marvel of engineering and they do produce huge amounts of power for their displacement, that comes at a price. Higher complexity, higher cost to manufacturer and higher repair/upkeep costs. (see this PDF for a description of the gen 3 EA888 engine: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/SB-10105867-2280.pdf )(note the cut away view on page 20 showing both port and direct injectors)

I have no expectation that the Tig's engine will go 200k+ trouble free miles like most of our older vehicles engines have done. And not to single out VW, any of the newer turbocharged high power per liter engines are suspect for long term durability. I was told by a contact inside the automotive industry that if looking for long term durability in an engine to stay with one of the proven designs and one that is normally aspirated. That may have been specific to that brand, but I think it is a fair generalization at this point. Time will tell if these little engines and all their needed auxiliary support systems will hold up for 15 to 20 years. Intake flappers, multiple water pumps, very complicated variable valvetrains, etc., etc., along with the requisite electronic controls, what could go wrong? Lol. It is what it is. Everything is a trade off. Save money on fuel today only to pay it back in the future. $600 for a valve cleaning will buy a lot of fuel! What does a turbo cost? Etc.


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## gregk24 (Sep 26, 2015)

GTINC said:


> Based on what information?


The owners manual? Good grief! 

OP, drain and refill with the proper 508.00 spec. It is a stout oil and there are many reasons to be using it over a non-spec oil. With your warranty being at the top of that list.


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## gregk24 (Sep 26, 2015)

BranSolo said:


> I'm not a big fan of the VW recommended Castrol oil, I prefer to use Pentosin or Liqui Moly, but stick to the Castrol until you're past warranty. Mobil isn't really made for European engine standards, but it's really up to your own discretion as the owner of your car.


I am not aware of any current Castrol product that meets 508.00 in the US. VW/AG switched over to Exxon / Mobil to manufacture their "house brand" 508.00 oil. It is called VW / Audi High Performance Engine Oil 508.00 and it's what I use in our Jetta.


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## gregk24 (Sep 26, 2015)

gerardrjj said:


> Keep in mind that the "508" standard is simply 0w20 oil with "long life addatives". There's really nothing special about the required oil. The "long life" is because VW wanted to spec out 10k oil changes rather than 3k or 5x interval.
> It would be pretty rare for there to be an engine issue due to manufacture defect (yes, it can happen but it's rare) and you would have to go pretty far afield from 0w20 to cause damage to the engine.
> 
> Basically: do something near "the right thing" and stop worrying about this. You're far more likely to get rear-ended than have an issue with internal engine parts and VW's warranty.


508.00 is not "simply" 0w20 with "long life additives". It has excellent anti wear properties and many formulations have high amounts of PAO. Check out the Lubrizol tool some time.


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## herkguy (Jan 11, 2006)

It’s funny the oil cap has Castrol as recommended by vw
Here is my 2020 labels 

ABE5B1F9-D0EF-411F-87F3-566AABC7F2ED by eric peltier, on Flickr

EF2BB3D9-1813-4CAC-BD74-2CDE99AE579D by eric peltier, on Flickr

And oil I bought from the dealer
C1704480-4005-43DF-9A70-F3E23BA95B1A by eric peltier, on Flickr

7DBEE4DA-5DB1-4B8F-BF75-ADCB30BF6D09 by eric peltier, on Flickr


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## IbsFt (Dec 15, 2018)

gregk24 said:


> I am not aware of any current Castrol product that meets 508.00 in the US. VW/AG switched over to Exxon / Mobil to manufacture their "house brand" 508.00 oil. It is called VW / Audi High Performance Engine Oil 508.00 and it's what I use in our Jetta.


The 508 spec oil is Castrol "professional" grade not available in big box auto stores. Could be purchased from the vw dealer (I did so last oil change) and online (which I did for the previous changes). 

Is VW now going to ship replacement oil caps with Mobil on them :🤦:


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## KCJeep (Dec 5, 2018)

The quarts the dealers are selling (like pictured above) are Mobil now too. I'm running the VW 504 version now.

I do believe Castrol has a VW 508 oil but it's likely an internet/ship purchase.


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## gregk24 (Sep 26, 2015)

IbsFt said:


> The 508 spec oil is Castrol "professional" grade not available in big box auto stores. Could be purchased from the vw dealer (I did so last oil change) and online (which I did for the previous changes).
> 
> Is VW now going to ship replacement oil caps with Mobil on them :🤦:


Castrol had the contract at the time, thats why the oil cap said Castrol recommended. Now its Exxon / Mobil.


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

gregk24 said:


> 508.00 is not "simply" 0w20 with "long life additives". It has excellent anti wear properties and many formulations have high amounts of PAO. Check out the Lubrizol tool some time.


The only even remotely authority I have is Volkswagen Oil Specifications - oilspecifications.org
Since VW doesn't publish the specs to the world that's about all I have to go on as much as anyone else.


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## gregk24 (Sep 26, 2015)

gerardrjj said:


> The only even remotely authority I have is Volkswagen Oil Specifications - oilspecifications.org
> Since VW doesn't publish the specs to the world that's about all I have to go on as much as anyone else.


Like I said, go check out Lubrizol some time.


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## IbsFt (Dec 15, 2018)

This isn't rocket science. No need to guess or speculate on something so easy to fact check  Castrol has a 508 spec oil. Period.

From the Jetta forum: [Maintenance] Where to buy the right oil
This link even has a picture for the non believers What Oil is everyone using?
Still not good enough? " Castrol EDGE Professional LL IV FE 0W-20 will be available in Volkswagen Group franchised workshops and dealerships from January 2017. "


https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/castrol-announces-new-low-viscosity-engine-oil-for-volkswagen-group-300277766.html said:


> WAYNE, N.J., June 1, 2016 /PRNewswire/ -- Castrol, one of the leading global lubricants manufacturer, today unveiled *Castrol EDGE® Professional® LL IV FE 0W-20*, Volkswagen Group's first 0W-20 engine oil, exclusively developed with Volkswagen for the benefit of customers of Volkswagen Group franchised workshops and dealerships.
> 
> 
> Developed by Castrol in strategic co-operation with Volkswagen Group, the new Castrol EDGE Professional product exceeds VW's fuel economy specification, delivering more than 4%1 fuel economy while maintaining the performance expected of oils meeting the LongLife service regime. This oil is already supplied as first fill for specific engines of Volkswagen Group vehicles, allowing them to deliver 10,000 miles, or one year, of driving before an oil change is needed2.
> ...






gregk24 said:


> Castrol had the contract at the time, thats why the oil cap said Castrol recommended. Now its Exxon / Mobil.


 Yeah I was being a wise guy asking about a new cap. Since VW sent out the update to the owners manual for the brake fluid change interval, will they send an update for the oil too? (again asked tongue in cheek).


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

gregk24 said:


> Like I said, go check out Lubrizol some time.


I have. There's nothing in their MSDS or web marketing that says anything is in their oil other than long life oil additives and high quality 0w20.


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## gregk24 (Sep 26, 2015)

gerardrjj said:


> I have. There's nothing in their MSDS or web marketing that says anything is in their oil other than long life oil additives and high quality 0w20.


VW wouldn't go through the trouble of creating a new spec if they could just put in the manual "use only high quality 0w20". That would be ANY name brand 0w20 oil available today at your local WM, certainly much easier for the consumer. Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline etc. all produce a top notch 0w20. BUT, there is more to this 508.00 spec. It has excellent anti wear properties, even more so than previous VW spec oils. Also, why would VW put in tracer dye? If this spec wasn't anything special you could just run any top tier 0w20 right?


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## schagaphonic (Aug 24, 2008)

I know nothing about being screwed but I have had the experience of needing to add 1/2 qt. of Mobil 1 0w20.
The next 2 tanks of fuel averaged 2mpg less than before adding the non-spec oil given the same driving conditions.
I then changed the oil myself using the VW spec oil and mpg returned to my "normal" mixed average of 28mpg.


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

gregk24 said:


> VW wouldn't go through the trouble of creating a new spec if they could just put in the manual "use only high quality 0w20". That would be ANY name brand 0w20 oil available today at your local WM, certainly much easier for the consumer. Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline etc. all produce a top notch 0w20. BUT, there is more to this 508.00 spec. It has excellent anti wear properties, even more so than previous VW spec oils. Also, why would VW put in tracer dye? If this spec wasn't anything special you could just run any top tier 0w20 right?


Marketing.
Control.
Fear.

Why would the US military go through the trouble of creating a new spec if they could just say "a long sleeve cotton shirt with two breast pockets"?

The fact that someone takes the time to write a spec doesn't mean there's necessarily anything unique about what's specced. Until and unless someone leaks VW's actual decription of 508.00, we can only guess. But there's no outward indication, right now, beyond speculation, that their spec is anything other than 0w20, long life additives and tracer dye.


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## gregk24 (Sep 26, 2015)

gerardrjj said:


> Marketing.
> Control.
> Fear.
> 
> ...


I'm not buying that. VW has had multiple specs over the years for gas / diesel engines. It's not because they are imposing fear. 

So DEXOS, ms-6395, WSS-m2c-946-a, 229.31 etc. etc. etc. are also meaningless specs? No.


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## Remzac (Nov 25, 2007)

I tried Walmart brand diesel oil once in a 2000 golf TDI I owned, not a VW spec oil. Never again. It consumed all the oil and I never bought that junk again. Crap oil. I will stick with the 508 spec on any brand I want for my Tiguan.
Not sure why people complain frankly.
The when the incorrect oil is used, something goes wrong with the vehicle, then Volkswagen is blamed.
What a load of BS. Buy the right spec on any brand you want and use it. Pretty simple. Follow the manufacturer recommended oils. Just like in your haldex unit. Use the proper oil there too.


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

gregk24 said:


> I'm not buying that. VW has had multiple specs over the years for gas / diesel engines. It's not because they are imposing fear.
> 
> So DEXOS, ms-6395, WSS-m2c-946-a, 229.31 etc. etc. etc. are also meaningless specs? No.


The SAE viscosity/weight spec is THE primary indicator of oil compatibility with an engine. With detergents, dispersants and stabilizers the oils can have longer change intervals. Everything else is marketing hype. The fact that there could even be more than like 20 "specs" for consumer level motor oil just proves that it's marketing hype. They won't tell you what's in it because they don't want you to know it's just marketing hype.

I've owned five VAG vehicles in my life. Probably over 600,000 miles combined on them. One, the '04 Golf TDI, alone has 300,000 miles.
I have not once, ever, put the VW spec oil in any of them. I've NEVER had a single issue with any car that could even be remotely attributed to the oil in the engine. This fear over using a non-approved oil is just plain stupid. It's about as senseless as people who insist that higher octane will make their non-tuned engine run better.


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## gregk24 (Sep 26, 2015)

gerardrjj said:


> The SAE viscosity/weight spec is THE primary indicator of oil compatibility with an engine. With detergents, dispersants and stabilizers the oils can have longer change intervals. Everything else is marketing hype. The fact that there could even be more than like 20 "specs" for consumer level motor oil just proves that it's marketing hype. They won't tell you what's in it because they don't want you to know it's just marketing hype.
> 
> I've owned five VAG vehicles in my life. Probably over 600,000 miles combined on them. One, the '04 Golf TDI, alone has 300,000 miles.
> I have not once, ever, put the VW spec oil in any of them. I've NEVER had a single issue with any car that could even be remotely attributed to the oil in the engine. This fear over using a non-approved oil is just plain stupid. It's about as senseless as people who insist that higher octane will make their non-tuned engine run better.


Maybe VW has an engineering position open for you. Run whatever you want in your vehicles, but don't go around spewing nonsense.


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

gregk24 said:


> Maybe VW has an engineering position open for you. Run whatever you want in your vehicles, but don't go around spewing nonsense.


You keep saying I'm wrong but provide zero justification other than your personal speculation. 
Show me the spec defintion. Show me an MSDS that has some special formulation. Tell me what's so special about the steel, iron, aluminum, rubber and plastic in VW's engines that they require some highly specialized, custom oil that isn't already on the market and works for every other engine on the market.
What, exactly, is the technical or functional reasoning behind VW's oil specs if it isn't just for the reasons I've proposed?
There isn't one.

It's easy for you to just shoot at my idea, but there's absolutely no indication that my conclusion is wrong other than "VW says it's special oil". 
Show me different facts and I'll form a different opinion.


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## gregk24 (Sep 26, 2015)

gerardrjj said:


> You keep saying I'm wrong but provide zero justification other than your personal speculation.
> Show me the spec defintion. Show me an MSDS that has some special formulation. Tell me what's so special about the steel, iron, aluminum, rubber and plastic in VW's engines that they require some highly specialized, custom oil that isn't already on the market and works for every other engine on the market.
> What, exactly, is the technical or functional reasoning behind VW's oil specs if it isn't just for the reasons I've proposed?
> There isn't one.
> ...


You do you. I, and most others on this forum will continue to run the specified oil per the OWNERS MANUAL. Best of luck to you.


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## IbsFt (Dec 15, 2018)

gerardrjj said:


> Marketing.
> Control.
> Fear.
> 
> ...


Newer, high output per liter turbocharged engines put more stress on fluids than ever before. That some of the new oils for these engines are *not* backward compatible, confirms that they, and the engines designed to use them, are fundamentally different.

So unless one is an oil expert and also knows *all* the specific reasons why 508 oil is required for our engines, how can one make a valid risk vs benefit decision when deciding to use any oil that doesn't meet the 508 spec? And what is the reward for not using a 508 spec oil? Saving a few pennies? Sticking it to VW? Getting to use your favorite brand of magic oil that doesn't have a 508 spec product? Hardly seems worth the risks, no matter how large or small those risks may be. So what you imply as fear driven, is really simple common sense: use the oil meeting the specs required by the people who built the engine, in this case VW and 508 spec oil.

Your car do whatever makes you happy. Until its proven that non spec oil will do not harm AND has some significant benefit compared to using 508, then you'll have to forgive me for staying with 508 spec oil.


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## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

IbsFt said:


> Newer, high output per liter turbocharged engines put more stress on fluids than ever before. Until its proven that non spec oil will do not harm AND has some significant benefit compared to using 508, then you'll have to forgive me for staying with 508 spec oil.


"Significant Benefit" is cost, & maybe Valvoline Modern Engine Oil's ethylenediamine to get carbon off the intake valves. Non-508 oil's lack of zirconium could flag the VW warranty police though, so there is that specter.

Proof that non-spec oil works great in LOW POWER DENSITY weak engines like our Tiguan DGUA Budack ones is that it's been done for millions of miles in lots of engines with no issues. (1 example: Infiniti's 2.0T 268 hp uses basic SN synthetics.) I will admit it's "nice" to have strong turbocharger tests, even for our weak DGUA turbo engine, similar to the difficult tests in dexos1 or just HTO-06, but beyond that, ANY name-brand 0w-20 will do fine for 7,500 miles or so. .... In HIGH POWER DENSITY engines like the VW GTI or R engines, or near-race-car engines like some high hp VW-Audi-Porsche V6 engines, and you probably should be 'safe' and stick with only VW-approved oils.

Longevity is the difference. I personally would NOT run a non-508 oil for more than 7,500 miles (or 1year), unless it met MB 229.71 at least. 

For example, Ford & Japanese turbo engines spec lower quality, less expensive oils but simply require more frequent oil changes. GM, for one, actually lowered the miles limit to 7,500 (from 10,000) on their excellent dexos1 spec oil in DI turbo engines due to carbon soot accumulation in the oil, & also because some people didn't check oil levels often enough with consumption occurring simultaneously. VW 508 & MB 229.71 0w-20 oils presumably handle soot better, so they can go to 10 or 12 thousand miles.

If you want a high-performing, long-lasting oil, Walmart does have a Mercedes-Benz MB 229.71 0w-20 oil now for pretty cheap. In a gold jug or bottles, look for "Castrol Extended" oil, & you'll see 229.71 printed on the back combined with the also very good dexos1 Gen2 performance level. The 229.71 spec is actually better than the VW 508 spec in Piston Deposits, according to the experts at Relative Performance Comparison Tool for Passenger Car Specifications - Engine Oil Additives - The Lubrizol Corporation . MB 229.71 same on "Engine Wear" as VW 508 too. I know the dexos1 elastomer (rubber seals) compatibility tests cover Euro ACEA & U.S. API/SAE lists. Mercedes covers those & possibly even more, so elastomer compatibility is definitely not a problem.


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## IbsFt (Dec 15, 2018)

Good info in that post. Saving money as a reason is a nonstarter. If you are changing the oil yourself you are already saving money. If, as you say, you have to change the non 508 oil more often, then you are going to spend more money per mile. Remember its not just the price of the oil, it’s also the cost of a filter and the value of the labor. For example, the MB spec oil you recommend from Wallyworld comes out to $5.50 Qt. ECS has the VW oil for $7.12 Qt. Using the same 10K drain interval you save less than $10 going that route. Using a different oil and having to change it sooner will eat up any savings. 

Not sure what your yelling (caps) over power density is about, clearly hit some kind of nerve. Its all relative. Our small fleet of vehicles make from 51 to 66 hp per liter, so yeah, by comparison the Tig’s “weak” 2.0 making 92 hp per liter has a much higher power density than I’m used to. Maybe 92 hp per liter is low by today’s standards, so you’ll have to excuse my ignorance. On the plus side, all our vehicles are well on their way to, or above 200K miles with no major engine repairs required. It will be a pleasant surprise if the Tig’s engine proves as durable.

That Lubrizol chart is pretty neat.

Cleaner intake valves would be a substantial benefit worth pursuing and about the only reason given so far to even consider any oil other than 508. Is there any data quantifying the reduced piston deposits or reduced valve deposits with the 229.71 oils? Like if it will double the time between valve cleanings it would be worth looking at. Without something definitive like that, there still isn’t anything for me to justify using non 508 oil in our Tig.


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## GregRob (Dec 16, 2020)

I guess my take on this issue is the total lack of real information from VW. The only answer you'll ever get from them is "Better fuel efficiency". and that's where the issue lies. Ford went this route back in 1999 when they, along with Honda, asked the EPA if they could use a 5W 20 oil in their CAFE standards mileage tests. The EPA answered "We don't care what oil you use an long as you make it mandatory for the buyer to use the same rating". No more temperature / viscosity charts or other choices in the manual. The oil filler caps were marked 0W 20 and that was the end of the story. In 2003 I bought a new F-150 with the 5.4 L V8 and drove it for 10 years and never used anything but 5W 30 even though a lot of people said that changes were made to the engine specs (Like smaller oil gallerys) The techs I talked to at Ford said no changed were made. I heard reports of oil consumption after about 60,000 miles was common with the use of the lighter oil but after 100,000 miles I had no oil consumption. In 2013, I traded to a new F-150 with the 5.0 L Coyote engine. The first thing I noticed was they had increased the oil capacity from 6 qts to 8 qts and added a heat exchanger to the radiator outflow the help control the oil temperature. In the 3.5 L V6 turbo, they gave up on the 0W 20 altogether and went back to a 5W 30 because the thinner oil couldn't handle the heat. Now we have an engine in the Tiguan that was calling for a 0W 40 or a 5W 30 that suddenly needs a 0W 20 for no other apparent reason then "Better gas mileage". Sound familiar? VW was late to the game but this experiment has only been going on for three years and most of the cars have far less than 40,000 miles on them. It seems that it's only in NA that this new standard is being pushed so hard but that brings up another issue to VW's defense. I read that most new gasoline vehicles in Europe and China are equipped with particulate filters in their exhaust due to the DI. They may become clogged if you don't use a low ash oil (<1.0). If that's the case they should say so. Also, the mention that a new oil pump was used in the 2B engine. If that was to increase the oil flow, that would also increase the oil pressure if a heavier viscosity was used with the possibility of blowing oil seals. Just a thought... But I'm tired of spending money for a product and not getting anything but Happy Talk from the manufacture. I don't need 10,000 mile OCI. I'll never run more than 5000 miles on any oil. Coming from a V8, 27 MPG is great. I make a couple of runs from Southern Calif. to Phoenix each year and sometimes the heat hits 115 degrees. I'm not sure a 0W-20 could handle that, especially an oil that is NOT BACKWARDLY COMPATIBLE with older engines.


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## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

GregRob said:


> I make a couple of runs from Southern Calif. to Phoenix each year and sometimes the heat hits 115 degrees. I'm not sure a 0W 20 could handle that.


 In a warmer climate, or summer about anywhere, I think a synthetic 5w30 is slightly better than a 0w20, agreed, as the diff in HTHS is only about 10%, just a little more to get thru high heat conditions. (HTHS 2.7 to 3.0 for dexos1 full-syns). ... That said, sometimes it is a little more complicated, as in the example where the VW-Audi EA839 V6 turbo engine gets new _cylinder wall cooling_ to raise the effective viscosity in that well-known engine hot spot, enabling the use of thin 0w20 like our EA888B uses. That V6 generates a lot of heat, yet engineeriing tricks do allow thinner oil because its mostly about the peak temperatures in certain spots. (BMW engineers discussed this a while back, saying that they limit temperature hot spots to use 0w20 in their engines too.) All engine designs are different in how they handle heat.












IbsFt said:


> Cleaner intake valves would be a substantial benefit worth pursuing and about the only reason given so far to even consider any oil other than 508. Is there any data quantifying the reduced piston deposits or reduced valve deposits with the 229.71 oils? Like if it will double the time between valve cleanings it would be worth looking at. Without something definitive like that, there still isn’t anything for me to justify using non 508 oil in our Tig.


The "Castrol Edge Extended" MB 229.71-rated oil (gold jugs or bottles at walmart), must be great at keeping _piston_ carbon deposits low, but I've never seen _Valve_ Stem Deposits as part of any CEC, ACEA, ASTM, MB, DIN, etc, many, many tests in 229.71 or VW 508 or dexos1. ...

Only oil I know that tries to address the Direct Injection weakness of Valve Stem Deposits is "Valvoline Modern Engine Oil" which puts ethylenediamine (a fuel additive in that motor oil), a light volatile chemical similar to PEA in Techron, which is light enough to be circulated thru the PCV to dissolve carbon off the stems as you drive. (I also suspect they use POE in their base oil, helping to dissolve carbon, clues from seeing patents for their related Valvoline Premium Blue Restore carbon-eater for big trucks.) Low SAPS in oil is alleged to help keep valve stems cleaner according to Shell's statements & also a Lubrizol presentation, every contribution helps.


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