# 2007 GTI : CEL for Lean at Idle



## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

My wife's 2007 GTI with 50, 000+ miles threw the following code today while she was driving back from the shops. 

- Recently her coil packs were replaced under the recall. 
- She is running the BSH catch can setup for the last 20K miles.
- She has an APR chip (stock/91/93/100).
- Latest OEM DV was installed before the APR chip flash (at around 40K miles).
- Cam follower replaced at 30K and recently at 50K.

Nothing obvious stands out after I checked the usual suspects- catch can/pcv plate, air box (OE), vac lines etc.

Any thoughts?

Sunday,02,January,2011,14:38:55:10376
VCDS Version: Release 10.6.1

Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 115 H HW: 8P0 907 115 B
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0030
Software Coding: 0403010A18070160
Work Shop Code: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 2B5EC8A7F377
1 Fault Found:

008583 - Bank 1; System too Lean at Idle 
P2187 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 85732 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 14:14:34

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 752 /min
Load: 14.9 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 81.0°C
Temperature: 12.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.478 V


Readiness: 0000 0000


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## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2006)

I've replaced a few PCVs for that fault.


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> I've replaced a few PCVs for that fault.


 Thanks. Her car does not have the OEM PCV anymore but the BSH catch can setup. I drained it a couple of days ago and got a fair amount of water out of it. 

Any other thoughts?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

pal said:


> Thanks. Her car does not have the OEM PCV anymore but the BSH catch can setup. I drained it a couple of days ago and got a fair amount of water out of it.
> 
> Any other thoughts?


 Seen this fault from a faulty PCV valve(this in on the hose from back of valve cover). Also seen a restricted air filter causing this. Also had a guy filter-charge a Neuspeed filter that made the car go lean. There are multiple things that it could be.......have any fuel trim data? Look at MVB 32 and read MVB 33 when running and let me know the values. May help with exactly how lean it is running. 
-J. Hines


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

Will log blocks 32/33 and post up here. I cleared the codes a couple of days ago so should I wait for the light to come back on so the fuel trims are reset? 

Also, since it's an Idle code should I log it while the car Idles? 

I am also thinking of upgrading the intake so this may be a good time- EVOMS with a dry filter? Or are there other options?


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

Got a chance to do some logging today and below is a plot of 032, 033 and 003 (RPM and Throttle Angle). I plotted one section of the log that was a pull in 2nd gear. 










One other thing I noticed is that the bottom of the oil cap gets white condensation deposits after one or two short trips. The weather has been really cold here (below freezing) and my wife drives her car daily for just 5-8 minutes in the morning and the evening to get to and from the train station. I suspect the motor is not getting warm enough and the condensation is getting quite bad. 

I have also been draining the catch cat every week and get half a cup of water out.


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

CEL came back on today and it was an intermittent code this time around.


Monday,10,January,2011,20:24:52:10376
VCDS Version: Release 10.6.1

Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 115 H HW: 8P0 907 115 B
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0030
Software Coding: 0403010A18070160
Work Shop Code: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 2B5EC8A7F377
1 Fault Found:

008583 - Bank 1; System too Lean at Idle 
P2187 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 85981 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 15:04:01

Freeze Frame:
 RPM: 851 /min
Load: 14.9 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 74.0°C
Temperature: 0.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.478 V


Readiness: 0000 0000


I took the car for a spin with the VAG COM logs turned on. I did some normal part throttle driving; one full throttle pull in 2nd gear where the ESP kicked in midway through but stayed in it. Below are logs from blocks 32 and 33.










Same data plotted with RPM (x-axis) and over layed with engine load (right axis).










Help me out folks!!


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/18619/P2187/008583

"When found in the NAR 2.0T (BPY) check RVUTB: 01-09-03 or 2018919 for updated Crankcase Breather Valve
If the breather valve is faulty, full engine vacuum is typically found when removing the oil cap at idle.
"

Seems like it could be something wrong with the BSH components.


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

crew219 said:


> http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/18619/P2187/008583
> 
> "When found in the NAR 2.0T (BPY) check RVUTB: 01-09-03 or 2018919 for updated Crankcase Breather Valve
> If the breather valve is faulty, full engine vacuum is typically found when removing the oil cap at idle.
> ...


Thanks for that link. I will check the BSH kit again - not sure what could go wrong as its basically a block off cap, a plate with some hoses going to the catch can. All clamps are snug and there does not appear to be any leaks.

And the catch can seems be be picking up deposits daily as well ...


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

check that the backing plate is sitting flush as it could be letting in unmetered air. 

Maybe check by putting in the OEM PCV valve and seeing if code goes away. (wouldn't be surprised)

Keep you eye on that can as in the winter time the amount of condensation it catches increases exponentially compared to warmer months. Id start with weekly checks and modify as needed till it gets warmer.

GL


....as for the milky deposits on the oil cap this is a common normal finding on cars that are driven for short distances.


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

Thanks sabba. It makes sense to try the process of elimination approach. I put the stock PCV back in and cleared the light. If the light comes back on, I will clean the MAF next. 

Also planning to get the EVOMS intake for her car since I hate dealing with the stock engine cover/air box. This should help eliminate possible leaks in the stock air box.

After that, I don't know what the next step is....


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

pal said:


> Thanks sabba. It makes sense to try the process of elimination approach. I put the stock PCV back in and cleared the light. If the light comes back on, I will clean the MAF next.
> 
> Also planning to get the EVOMS intake for her car since I hate dealing with the stock engine cover/air box. This should help eliminate possible leaks in the stock air box.
> 
> After that, I don't know what the next step is....


LOL. It was a glorious day, that day the stock engine cover was no longer needed!

Don't you have your own car to mod


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

sabba said:


> LOL. It was a glorious day, that day the stock engine cover was no longer needed!
> 
> Don't you have your own car to mod


The 2.0T is turning out to be an engine that is almost as demanding in terms of maintenance as the S54  Planning on the EVOMS intake for the GTI - any other thoughts?

Back on topic, I think I am having good results after cleaning out the PCV system, removing the BSH Stage 2 kit and running the stock PCV for the last 4 days (about 250 miles). No CELs have popped up yet and the car seems to run healthy in chipped mode.

Now I dont think the issue is with the BSH kit but rather with the buildup of the oil/condensation junk on the following parts-

(1) Plastic line from the block to the inlet of the PCV.
(2) Inlet of the BSH PCV plate.
(3) Outlet of the BSH plate openings.
(4) Outlet of the intake manifold PCV openings.

If no lights come on by this weekend, I will put the BSH kit back on and see how things go. 

Now its time to hide your children and loved ones as what you are about to see is graphic 














































Stock PCV that's been on the car the last 4 days -


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

Hmmmm, im speechless.

Now grant you im not a technically minded person when it comes to cars, but something doesn't seem right with the catch can setup. 

As temps drop the amount of water condensation caught in these cans rises exponentially...could the can have overfilled?

I notice that BSH now uses a larger diameter hoses in their current revised catch can...wonder why?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

sabba said:


> I notice that BSH now uses a larger diameter hoses in their current revised catch can...wonder why?


Smaller lines reduce the overall vacuum on the system by posing an additional restriction (esp with the formation of buildup).

Dave


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

Do you guys know what the diameter of the larger hoses is on the BSH catch can setup? The ones I have seem quite wide and I thougt they were too wide.

It's possible that the catch can overfilled a couple of times at the start of winter as I did not realize how much gets in there. After that I have been good about draining it every other day. Maybe it was too late by then.

I think a key indicator may have been the excessive white deposits on the oil cap and filler neck daily - should have immediately looked at the PCV.


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

pal the muck on the oil cap is common for this engine, esp if the car is frequently driven short distances with little or no time for engine to warm up. My mother has a b7 A4 convertible that she uses as a car to get to and from the train station and i typically find this milky residue on the bottom of oil cap.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

pal said:


>


If You look carefully at your pic's you can see where your vacuem leak is coming from.

The first pic above if you look at the TOP of the square hole ( where all the gunk is ) you can see where the gasket hasnt ever compressed and you can see where that little nic from the plastic fitting is in the gasket? .
Well if you look in the second pic above if you look at the plastic fitting its what nic the gasket... 

WHY? because the fitting is protruding too far and the fitting dosnt line up in the middle of the square hole and when you tighen it lands against the plastic part valve cover right around the gasket area. 
Take out that plastic 90 degree fitting and shorten it so it wont protrude out the back of the plate or if you have a dremel just grind it down and your all set. 

I would also suggest clean out the catch can really good and put new filter material like steel wool or red or green 3m pad and pack it nice and tight . Reinstall your catch can vacuem and CEL Free  Bob.G


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## tautvydasv (Mar 13, 2007)

hey, I am having similar problem... in your case it is strange that it says no signal. 

Here is my topic:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5162580-008567-system-too-lean-at-idle


P.S. As for the view that you saw it is normal in winter, especially with short distance driving. You get a lot of condensate inside the engine. It is because of big differences in temperatures when comparing engine working temp and environment.


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

Thanks a ton rracerguy07. The car has been CEL free all week now and I am planning to install the BSH kit again - will def take note of your points as they make a lot of sense. Any tips on how to seal the threads on the 2 fittings as they don't really tighten up?

tautvydasv - It did not always say no signal but that one time; not sure why. But it was always a lean at idle code. I am glad I figured it out and it was not too complex. I guess its worth it for you to check your PCV system, clean your MAF before going to O2 sensors and further.


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