# Megasquirt question



## tprice93 (Oct 11, 2008)

I have a MS-1 v3.0 in a N/A 16v. This is the current diagram I am using:








( I am NOT using the fast idle)
I have nothing running to the distributor except for the main spark wire from the coil. What do I need to do with the Hall sender??
The car turns over but there is no spark.








Any suggestions or links would be appreciated.
Thanks, Tristan


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: Megasquirt question (tprice93)*

so, how arw you planning on getting spark with nothing connected to the dizzy?


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## twardnw (Sep 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

In other words, the diagram you are using is for a fuel-only setup. You could hook up the stock ignition and just use that, or wire MS to control your spark, but you'll need a new diagram.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (twardnw)*

LOL, another easy answer.


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (ps2375)*

This write up was posted a few years back. It explains what you will need to do. 

"Alright guys, I just got my 16v fired up using my v3 board to control spark. Im gonna try to make this a very detailed write up covering the whole process. Before I go on any further id like to say thanks to Dave (cdndub) and Calvin (kalvinlk) for all the help. This write up is based off of Dave's original write up but it will include a couple of things that were left out along with pictures. Thanks again guys.
First off, I purchased my v3 board already assembled because I didn't have the time to build it myself. Because of this I was kinda left out on the basic internals of ms. I read and asked a bunch of questions and eventually understood everything (well mostly everything ).
This pictures is good to use to get a basic idea of where things are located on the v3 board. 

With all that said I will now get on to the procedures that need to be made to make this thing control spark. 
First things first. TACHSELECT should be jumperd to OPTOIN. If its not please do so. 
2. After that you will need to solder a jumper wire to the previous jumper and run it over to the +5 pad above the proto area. You can see the +5 pad on the top side of the pcb. Like Dave said, This will give you 5v to power the hall. (cleaner signal)
3. Next you will have to cut the jumper between XG1 and XG2 if there is already one installed. After that you will need to run a jumper wire from XG1 and IAC-1A. This is the input for the tach signal from the dizzy.
4. If not already done you will have to jumper TSEL to OPTOOUT. 
5. This step pretty much depends on which firmware you are running on your v3 board. Basically this step is where you send a signal to the IGBT (onboard ignition driver) to let it know when to fire. On the v3 board the input is labeled IGBTIN. The output to this is what varies depending on what code you are using. The default output for the standard ms2 code is JS10 (ign). If you are using the standard ms2 code then run a jumper from IGBTIN to JS10. 
I on the other hand am still using the ms1 processor but running it with MSnS -E so I can control spark. If your running MSnS like I am then the default output is one of the led's. In this case you will have to run a jumper from IGBTIN to the top of R26 with a 330ohm 1/4 watt resister inline. You will be able to see R26 from the top of the pcb board. You can also refer to the pcb picture posted above. The reason you don't want to use JS10 with MSnS is because JS10 is a input for knock control. Check out the pictures below.


6. Next jumper IGBTOUT to IGN if not already jumperd. This is the output to the coil (pulsed ground).
Now that all the internal mods have been performed we will move onto the wiring. Your basic hall sensor will have three wires. The three wires consist of a ground, power and signal. In almost all cases the middle wire is the signal wire. This wire will be ran to pin 25 or pin S1 on the relay board. 
Next is the ground wire. This wire will most likely be brown/white or just brown. You want to find a good grounding point for this wire. The last of the hall wires is the power wire. This wire should be red/black. The power wire will be ran to pin 24 or the TACH pin on the relay board. Finally its time for the coil wire. 
All you need to do is run a wire from pin 36 or S5 (relay board) to the negative side of the coil. This wire is a pulsed ground and will tell your coil when to fire. That's pretty much it guys. You've just moded your v3 board to control spark. If anyone wants to add to this or ask any questions please feel free."


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (oilpangasket)*

hope he glued those loose wires down!


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (ValveCoverGasket)*

If you use stranded wire and not solid core it doesn't matter.


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## twardnw (Sep 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

does anyone have a wiring diagram similar to the on the OP posted, for direct-coil control and running off the VW Hall sender?


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_hope he glued those loose wires down!

Yeah. I pulled this article off of the Motronic to MS thread a few years back. Was the only pic I had of the 3.0 hall sensor mod. Flux needs cleaned too.
I have a diagram of the V2.2 with direct coil control, but none with the V3.0. They are pretty much the same except on the 3.0 you run pin 36 to the coil -.
Your V3.0 board needs to be wired similar to the above picture.

I modified this diagram from a V2.2 to what a V3.0 should look like.










_Modified by oilpangasket at 1:55 PM 12-14-2009_


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## twardnw (Sep 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

does the V3 board still need the VB921 driver?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (oilpangasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oilpangasket* »_
I have a diagram of the V2.2 with direct coil control, but none with the V3.0. They are pretty much the same except on the 3.0 you run pin 36 to the coil -.
Your V3.0 board needs to be wired similar to the above picture.


what were you using to direct drive a coil w/ the v2.2?

and i always use solid core, i find it a lot easier to jam into the holes on the pcb...


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_
what were you using to direct drive a coil w/ the v2.2?

and i always use solid core, i find it a lot easier to jam into the holes on the pcb...

Just a Bosch BIP 373 similar to this old diagram. I just had all of these pictures saved from a long time ago when the Moronic to Megasquirt thread was just getting started. Don't know whose work it is, I just had them for sharing with people who need to see how its done.


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (twardnw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twardnw* »_does the V3 board still need the VB921 driver?

No it has one built in. If its a newer board it is a Bosch BIP 373 as the VB921 is now obsolete. It is Q16 on the V3.0 Board. Yours should be wired up like the picture of the blue V3.0 board above or you will get no tach signal.


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## twardnw (Sep 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Any idea when the switch to the BIP373 was made? I've had this board for 2 years now. Already wired it for Hall input when I built the board. suppose I *could* get off my ass and go pull the ECU from the car and take a look to see which drive it has...


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (twardnw)*

It doesn't matter what driver it has really. The VB921 and the Bosch BIP 373 wire up exactly the same, except the Bosch driver is in a TO-220 case that requires the use of a mica insulator and the older VB921 did not need an insulator. The Bosch BIP 373 has actually been bench test proven to be better than the VB921. Not sure when the switch was made, but I believe it was because they quit making VB921s about a year or so ago.




_Modified by oilpangasket at 6:53 PM 12-14-2009_


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## twardnw (Sep 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

ah, cool, so I guess the worse that would happen is the ign coil draws too many amps and fries the driver, and then I just replace it with the newer one.
Now I just need a connector for the Hall sender and can start working on spark


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (twardnw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twardnw* »_ah, cool, so I guess the worse that would happen is the ign coil draws too many amps and fries the driver, and then I just replace it with the newer one.
Now I just need a connector for the Hall sender and can start working on spark









Just don't turn your dwell over 4ms and you will be more than fine. Its pretty darn hard to burn out a BIP 373 as they have built in current limiting.


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## tprice93 (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks a ton oilpangasket, I am going to give this a try tomorrow


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: (tprice93)*

Yup, just take your time and make sure you get all the wires ran right and neat and you will get it running. I have done lots of 8v and 16v distributor installs this way, so I know for sure it works.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (oilpangasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oilpangasket* »_
Just don't turn your dwell over 4ms and you will be more than fine. 

Almost. You also need to make 100% sure that with the VB921 that you have your coil power to a fuel pump relay switched source and NOT the ignition switch or an ignition switched relay. There is no current limiting on the VB and if left with power on and no switching they will fry in short order. Been there/done that and I have a bin of blown VB's to prove it. 
The BIP373's I have not been able to kill, even intentionally. 
Also if I see anyone else post/use that old diagram where hall power comes out pin 24 I'm going to lose it. Follow the MS extra manual:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1...#hall
Follow 5v low/high, tps+ is power to the hall, signal comes in pin 24 like it should. Saves a pin for I/O as well.


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

I figured wiring the coil to the fuel pump relay so it could have switched +12V would be common sense, but I guess you should never assume anything. 









Jump TSEL to OPTOOUT
Run a wire from TachSelect to XG1
Remove R12, Fit a 470R resistor in its place
Remove C30 and solder a wire from the top hole of the C30 position to +5V on the proto area.
Just to help him out a little more I made a picture of the way the manual says to do the board wiring as well, since a picture is worth a thousand words.
Hall Plug Pinout:
1- Ground (ground should be a brown coded wire)
2- Signal (middle pin)
3- Power Supply Input
Run the Hall signal output to pin 24 on the MS DB37 connector. Supply +5V to the hall sensor by running a wire from pin 26 (which is also the TPS +5V) to the hall sensor plug power wire. Run the hall sensor ground wire to pin 7 of the Megasquirt DB37 plug.
If there's anything in the the picture missing let me know. One of us needs to make some new diagrams for this type of installation that satisfy the manual.


_Modified by oilpangasket at 5:18 PM 12-15-2009_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (oilpangasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oilpangasket* »_I figured wiring the coil to the fuel pump relay so it could have switched +12V would be common sense, but I guess you should never assume anything. 

Many cars (including VW) just use ignition switched power on the coil.


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## tprice93 (Oct 11, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

"Also if I see anyone else post/use that old diagram where hall power comes out pin 24 I'm going to lose it. Follow the MS extra manual:"
So which pin will it go to?
ANd also oilpan gasket: which board layout do I want to use? You posted three different pictures.


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## priceless89 (Feb 28, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (tprice93)*

So instead of pin 24 being our supply, we use pin 26 and a wire from that to supply 5v and pin 24 as our signal?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (priceless89)*

If you use the diagrams from the msextra manual, you get hall power from tpsvref (26) and hall input comes in on tach (pin24).


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## priceless89 (Feb 28, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

alright, thanks for the help need a vr6.


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## tfatout (Feb 20, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (priceless89)*

So which board mods do I need to do for this to work. The post from oilpangasket on 12-14 or the more recent mods on the 15th?


_Modified by tfatout at 6:23 PM 12-31-2009_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (tfatout)*

Everything you ever wanted or not wanted to know is here: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1...x.htm
Hall, use 5v low high: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1...#hall
Single ignition output for VW module: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1...bosch


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## tfatout (Feb 20, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

Nice thanks. Good info!


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## tfatout (Feb 20, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (tfatout)*

Okay one more question on this I think I am close. The 470R resistor that is called for what is the wattage for that. I called my local radio shack and they have 1/4 and 1/2 watt 470 ohm resistors. What am I looking for? Thanks everyone and happy new years!


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (tfatout)*

1/4w is plenty for pullups.


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## tfatout (Feb 20, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

Perfect thanks


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## priceless89 (Feb 28, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

We rewired the board so it would control spark as well, redid some of the wiring. Still same problem. We have 12v going to the ignition coil and pin 36 going to the negative side of the ignition coil. We have 4.95v to the hall sender. Just not sure if it is giving out a signal back to the ms. I'll check for that. We are both stumped. I know you need to collapse the magnetic field of the ignition coil and that is done by removing power from the primary wire. Wiring is not my friend


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

Does it display rpm in the tuning software while you're cranking?


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## priceless89 (Feb 28, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

We don't have a laptop hooked up to it. Currently mine is down. With the diesel starter we put it, it cranks the engine good. Could it be that the hall sender isn't giving us a signal which then affects how it would switch power to the IC?


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## priceless89 (Feb 28, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (priceless89)*

IM sent


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

Could be a few things. Try removing the hall plug and ground the center wire repeatedly very quickly and see if you get rpm in the tuning software. If not, your board mods or software setup are wrong.


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## twardnw (Sep 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

so if grounding the center pin of the hall creates RPM, but I don't see any in TS during cranking, what next?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (twardnw)*

Have you tried a diff hall sender?


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## twardnw (Sep 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

didn't get to post that yet, but yeah, swapped to a different dizzy and was able to see the RPM


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## twardnw (Sep 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

also, with my coil + wired to the fuel pump +, I get some strange noises and such from the FP after the 2 sec of no RPM.


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## tprice93 (Oct 11, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (twardnw)*

If I decide to go with an ignition module what will need to be done to the vb921 driver and what jumpers will I need to have?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

You can leave it in there. Why the ignition module?


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## tprice93 (Oct 11, 2008)

Can't get it to spark


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## twardnw (Sep 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *tprice93* »_Can't get it to spark



_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Could be a few things. Try removing the hall plug and ground the center wire repeatedly very quickly and see if you get rpm in the tuning software. *If not, your board mods or software setup are wrong.*


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