# The 010 Lost Knowledge Thread



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

If anyone out there is interested, I figure it might be nice to have a place to put all the snippets of info that have been floating around about the 010. I know a few of us really like that box...but we all only have a small piece of the puzzle. I recently bought a nice little factory 010 troubleshooting manual at a swap meet, and there are some interesting bits in it. Here's the link to download a PDF:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/tchaa...e.pdf
It's a pretty secretive topic, the 010, but maybe it's finally time to let the world know what a few of us already do. I'll be updating this with as much info as I can find/have already, in order to further the research. I've got information about changing the shift points, a nice rebuild manual, and pictures of a box torn down. I'll also look in to cross-referencing the various boxes for useful parts that can be swapped...but that might be a big task for one guy.
Cheers all...and if you care, share, please







.


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

Nice...


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## Mr. Tickles (Jul 25, 1999)

*Re: The 010 Lost Knowledge Thread (B4S)*

I put a reverse pattern full manual valve body in one not too long ago. It's pretty cool to say the least. Input shafts seem to be the weak point though.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Nice. Any info on the valve body? Who built it? That's the missing link that keeps me from converting fully. My old G60 3-speed just didn't shift hard enough and I don't have enough knowledge of the flow through the VB to play around. I know that the 'E' gearboxes that were found in some of the auto MkII diesels had some extra bits in their valve bodies, but not sure if that's any help. I'd DEFINITELY pay for a manual valve body







.


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## Mr. Tickles (Jul 25, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

The full manual bypasses basically everything (accumulator, governor, 1/2 and 2/3 shift regulators, kickdown, etc) and comes with a higher system pressure spring. With the higher pressure the pump drive center also needs to be upgraded to a chromoly one. Everything else was a basic rebuild kit except for the forward drum chromoly center (optional for lower power) and a kevlar lined band. I also swapped in the 087 5" direct clutch drum and shell.
The one I installed was $500 for the valve body (bolt on, no modification needed) and the chromoly pump drive was $60. Modified forward drum was $300 and the kevlar band was ~30.
The valve body looked pretty basic, so I imagine it could be reverse engineered pretty easily. I'll have to dig up the info on where we sourced the parts if you want to spend that kind of money.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I do indeed want to spend that kind of money







.
Thanks for the info, it's nice to see that it's not insanity to think that the 010 can actually be modified properly. I know IPT does 010 stuff...but I'm not sure about how deep they can go. Last I talked to them, they mentioned a porsche 4-pinion planetary being used, but nothing about the VB or band.


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## Mr. Tickles (Jul 25, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

The four gear planetary is the last step since they are hard to come by, but if you have one then definitely swap it, or sell it to me







.
The guy we used was transaxleengineering.com. He's very knowledgeable about the planetary section, but isn't familiar with the VW final drive portion as he's never used it.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

HOLY CRAP! 
check the pic on the homepage






















http://transaxleengineering.com/index.html
Dude, thanks a MILLION for this info. I'm switching directions on my project, wish I hadn't thrown out that TJ code box I had







. All I've got is an older EQ now, short ratios







.


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## Mr. Tickles (Jul 25, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

If you're adding the audi parts make sure the gear ratios between the two donors match (just the planetaries, not the final drive), otherwise the reverse planetary and carrier won't fit. Basically, the Audi carrier is different from the VW one, and you'll have to use the VW one to mate to the final drive case.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I'd probably start out slow, and just use the stock EQ rabbit box I have here, with the VB and pump drive, since I'm still naturally aspirated. After an overhaul of course, no way I'm going to try a manual VB on a car with 26 year old clutches







. The diff/transaxle seal is still good, so I don't forsee any extreme issues inside the box. I just wish I hadn't pitched my long-ratio box





















.


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## quartermain (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

i printed out a copy of your manual. it'll go into my 'obscure VW tech' binder. thanks for sharing the info.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

No problem, glad to help







.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

A lot of 010 performance knowledge can be gleaned from the Vanagon crowd, as they routinely swap WRX motors in, using the 010 as their gearbox. Here's a nice little forum, it's small but it has some good info if you dig.
http://www.vwrx.com/forum/index.php


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

A mod for the stock governor, to change the shift points. Keep in mind this mod is for the Vanagon tranny, which has much lower shift points than the Mk1/2 boxes. The same theory applies though, take a bit off the weights and see where it shifts at WOT. Take off too much...and you'll be looking for a new governor







.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Some pictures of adding ATF cooler ports to a non-cooler port case. Big thanks to Rabbit6 for sharing! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.
Return








Feed


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I've achieved quick shifts by disabling the two *EDIT* accumulators. I haven't monkeyed with line pressure or anything like that yet, and really at this point, don't find the need to. It works that well already. Currently operating a turbo G60 at 10 psi w/ assymetric sport cam and techtonics chip.
My first trans snapped it's turbine shaft (input shaft) while two footing it at the tree at my local drag strip. The second one wouldn't upshift. This one works awesome!
The two fittings for fluid cooling are 1/8 NPT. The supply fitting is filled with solder and has a 1/8" orifice drilled through the solder. I might enlargen that slightly, but I believe that running this setup without an orifice would divert too much fluid from the valve body.


_Modified by Rabbit6 at 2:42 AM 8-21-2009_


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Disabling the governors how?


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

post edited. accumulators, not govenors. damn nighshift brain!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

That's a good tip about the return orifice, makes sense http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

oops! don't make that mistake... the orifice definitely needs to be put in the supply fitting, not the return. If installed in the return, then the lines and cooler will be subject to full, unregulated pressure from the pump!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

DOH...reading pwns me today.
Supply line, gotcha.


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## rychas1 (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

following...


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## rjev (May 29, 2009)

this thread is awesome. mostly over my head but awesome. it's freakin sweet to see that there's actually a few 010 enthusiasts floating around in interwebland. that and the idea of a WRX motor in a vanagon just makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.


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## Toadster (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (rjev)*

i don't get it... where's all the info?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Yeah...it doesn't seem to be drawing the sharers out of their hidey holes. I know there is a ton of info out there...but nobody is sharing







.


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## umeng2002 (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Sorry to jack this thread, but I figure any 010 info should go here.
I had my 010 rebuilt about 20,000 miles ago. It really only needed a new diff, but they had the thing apart anyway.
A few months ago it started to take about 10 seconds for the car to move forward when you put the selector in Drive, 1, or 2 position.
Now it takes like 2 minutes.
I've changed the fluid 4 times to get most of the old fluid out, but that didn't really work.
It goes into Reverse as fast as it should.
Any ideas?
thanks.
Oh and once it finally gets going, it totally fine. Once the tranny gets cold, it takes takes 2 minutes for drive to engage.


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

Probably a pressure loss. Probably gonna need to be pulled out. Measure line pressure with a gauge.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (umeng2002)*


_Quote, originally posted by *umeng2002* »_
A few months ago it started to take about 10 seconds for the car to move forward when you put the selector in Drive, 1, or 2 position.
Now it takes like 2 minutes.
I've changed the fluid 4 times to get most of the old fluid out, but that didn't really work.
It goes into Reverse as fast as it should.
Any ideas?
thanks.
Oh and once it finally gets going, it totally fine. Once the tranny gets cold, it takes takes 2 minutes for drive to engage.


So it operates normally, once it's warmed up and achieves drive finally?
Perhaps some crud was left inside the trans during overhaul that finally made it's way into the valve body. Then, while it's cold and tolerances are closer (steel valves in aluminum bores) a shift valve is getting stuck part way.
If you're feeling advernturous, remove the valve body and disassemble it. Clean it and each individual piece with brake cleaner and lint-free rags. reassemble the way it came apart (verifying with bentley diagrams in case the overhauler buggered something up.)
No special tools needed. a 13mm socket, a 10 mm socket a phillips #2 is it. A spotless, dust-free work area, of course, and about 2 cans of brake cleaner. Get a piece of styrofoam and draw the outline of the valve body on it, life sized. Take a bunch of toothpicks to make little corrals in each component position on the VB outline. As you disassemble, put each piece in the correct place and orientation. Once the VB is totally naked (watch out for the little valve balls) use an old toothbrush or industrial plastic bristle brush and brake cleaner to make both halves and the seperator plate look like new.
Then clean each individual component lube with fresh ATF and install into the proper location. Reassemble the valve body halves, clean the filter screen and put it all back together using the bentley's torques.
See what that does. If no difference, there's probably a damaged seal on the work piston somewhere. (which could affect pressure as mentioned above)
This isn't a difficult job, but you must be extremely conscientious of PERFECT cleanliness and how everything came apart.


_Modified by Rabbit6 at 10:38 AM 2-14-2010_


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## umeng2002 (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Rabbit6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rabbit6* »_
So it operates normally, once it's warmed up and achieves drive finally?
Perhaps some crud was left inside the trans during overhaul that finally made it's way into the valve body. Then, while it's cold and tolerances are closer (steel valves in aluminum bores) a shift valve is getting stuck part way.
If you're feeling advernturous, remove the valve body and disassemble it. Clean it and each individual piece with brake cleaner and lint-free rags. reassemble the way it came apart (verifying with bentley diagrams in case the overhauler buggered something up.)
No special tools needed. a 13mm socket, a 10 mm socket a phillips #2 is it. A spotless, dust-free work area, of course, and about 2 cans of brake cleaner. Get a piece of styrofoam and draw the outline of the valve body on it, life sized. Take a bunch of toothpicks to make little corrals in each component position on the VB outline. As you disassemble, put each piece in the correct place and orientation. Once the VB is totally naked (watch out for the little valve balls) use an old industrial plastic bristle toothbrush and brake cleaner to make both halves and the seperator plate look like new.
Then clean each individual component lube with fresh ATF and install into the proper location. Reassemble the valve body halves, clean the filter screen and put it all back together using the bentley's torques.
See what that does. If no difference, there's probably a damaged seal on the work piston somewhere. (which could affect pressure as mentioned above)
This isn't a difficult job, but you must be extremely conscientious of PERFECT cleanliness and how everything came apart.

thanks, I was thinking something along those lines. It does drive perfectly fine once warmed up. I just didn't know what was involved in removing the valve body.


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

Trans brake and cryo'd input shaft anyone?


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## rychas1 (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: (CoolAirVw)*

high stall TQ, cryo'd input shaft, and trans brake?







God, i miss my 16v.


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## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (umeng2002)*

The idea of this thread is a great one. Hopefully everyone will chime in their info.
I currenly have three Quantums with two of them having the 010 trans in them. One being a TD and having the version with the "E" mode. 
I'd love to see some info on the interchangability of various 010.
For example I understand that often the final drive is really the only thing that make many of the transmissions different and the rest can be interchanged to fair degree.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (DubbinChris)*

I'm pretty decent mechanically, but have not touched a tranny other than to swap it out. I currently have a 92 with 3 speed auto. Sometimes, once the engine warms up, the tranny hesitates between the 2/3 shift. If its hesitating, you can take your foot off the gas and then it will shift. Cold its fine...but once its warmed up(and not always), this will happen. 
Whats the thing to do for this?


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## umeng2002 (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (CajunSpike)*

What are the signs of a bad accumulator piston?


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## sec914 (Sep 4, 2006)

just picked up a 86 cabriolet with a trans that is puking fluid out of the vent port. happened after the previous owner changed the fluid and cleaned the screen any ideas? original problem was leaking pan gasket.


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## rychas1 (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: (sec914)*

too much fluid.


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

*Re: (sec914)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sec914* »_just picked up a 86 cabriolet with a trans that is puking fluid out of the vent port. happened after the previous owner changed the fluid and cleaned the screen any ideas? original problem was leaking pan gasket.

WHen the seals between the torque converter section and the diff section fail it can send the converter charge oil into the diff overfilling it.


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## 88vwFox (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: (CoolAirVw)*

I have been looking for some time now trying to find out what aftermarket fluid to use in my 81 rabbit auto. I am sure it's a 010 3 speed but finding info on it is like pulling teeth. I think I remember seeing somewhere about using the same fluid for both the diff and the ATF. Something about having GL-4 and some other rating from red-line? I am looking for this info because I really don't mind the auto it makes me drive the car nice but I would like to do do a fluid/filter change to keep it in tip top shape.

PS don't let this thread die, it is the ONLY one with any real 010 info. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

*Re: (88vwFox)*

I don't think there are any miracle fluids out there. A high quality synthetic is the way to go. If you're monkeying around with the valvebody etc, i'd suggest getting a 20L pail of regular fluid, and once you've satisified yourself with your changes, then upgrade to synthetic. I never re-use fluid dumped from a trans, even if it's only gone for one test drive. No matter how carefully you clean the transmission's innards, there always seems to be more debris suspended in the fluid.
Remember, the torque converter holds quite a bit, so simply draining the pan and refilling can't be considered a complete oil change. 
Diff oil is seperate from trans fluid. Synthetic is good here, too. Just remember, fluid lifespan decreases exponentially with heat. If you're gonna run her hard, put a cooler in. Not too hard to do, see above.


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## 88vwFox (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: (Rabbit6)*

Ok so you say to use a high quality synthetic, is there a spec I should be looking for? Dex III/mercon, ATF+4? there are many different ATF's all with different specs. I would just like to know so it's post here and so I can make sure I get the right thing the first time.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The diff should get the usual VW gear oil (75w90, GL-4), and Dexron III ATF in the box itself. Redline makes an ATF with GL-4 gear oil properties, which eliminates the need for dual fluids in the box...thus eliminating the fluid-mixing-death these boxes usually end up with. 
I really want to monkey around with an 010 again, but I just don't have the time/energy to go so deep into a project right now







.


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## 88vwFox (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_The diff should get the usual VW gear oil (75w90, GL-4), and Dexron III ATF in the box itself. Redline makes an ATF with GL-4 gear oil properties, which eliminates the need for dual fluids in the box...thus eliminating the fluid-mixing-death these boxes usually end up with. 
I really want to monkey around with an 010 again, but I just don't have the time/energy to go so deep into a project right now







.


I believe this is the product you are talking about http://www.redlineoil.com/prod...cid=9 The only problem I see with this is that trying to keep the fluid levels at the recommended spec. 
Quick note, this is the first car I have EVER owned with an auto. I am one major noobi when it comes to auto trans.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well, if the seal that separates the diff and gearbox is still intact, then all this fluid does is offer piece of mind. The seal should stay in place, and be replaced if it's dead...but that fluid offers a bit of extra insurance IMO







.


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## jfg69 (Mar 19, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Just out of curiosity, while I go off and attempt a search on more info.. can I swap one of these into my 1990 16V Passat Wagon? IMy current auto has the dreaded 2-3 gear slip, but seems to be fine after its fully warmed up. Apparently been that way for some time according to the PO.
The thought of actually having a manual VB in a VW intrigues me, having had some hot automatics when I was building Chevy's and Olds's.. not that I expect to be chirping gears on the upshift in my 16V Passat..


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Sure, you might have to rig up a shifter (not sure if the gates are the same), and you'll only have three speeds vs. four (might be revvy on the highway)...but you can dump all the electronic stuff







. 
it's a bolt-in deal, if you've got all the stuff (flexplate, TC, etc), and 100mm axle flanges on the box. Some of the early ones had 90mm flanges.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (jfg69)*

try an oil and filter change? helped on a 16v passat I was working on.
A friend suggested that while the pan was off, start the engine, and shift through each gear (up on stands, foot brake holding wheels still) and back into park. I did, and the trans vomited out old fluid through all the different shift valves. This is fluid that would have remained in the trans and contaminated the new stuff. More than likely, the pump emptied out some from the torque converter. The whole process took less than 30 seconds, and with no real drive load, I don't think any damage could occur. I haven't tried this on a 3 speed, but I don't think I'll hesitate to, next time.
My wabbit lays a good patch into 2nd, and chirps 3rd. Don't see why a 16v couldn't!
It's a wicked feeling.










_Modified by Rabbit6 at 6:36 AM 4-19-2010_


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## jfg69 (Mar 19, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Sure, you might have to rig up a shifter (not sure if the gates are the same), and you'll only have three speeds vs. four (might be revvy on the highway)...but you can dump all the electronic stuff







. 
it's a bolt-in deal, if you've got all the stuff (flexplate, TC, etc), and 100mm axle flanges on the box. Some of the early ones had 90mm flanges.

Could always swap out the final drive for the highway I would think.. anything available in the aftermarket for a shifter? I like this idea.. electronics and VW automatics should not be mentioned in the same sentence.. lol


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## rychas1 (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (jfg69)*

i had my 3speed mated to a 16v in my mk2 jetta. it does wonders to a sad face







do it!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (jfg69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jfg69* »_
Could always swap out the final drive for the highway I would think.. anything available in the aftermarket for a shifter? I like this idea.. electronics and VW automatics should not be mentioned in the same sentence.. lol

Unfortunately there are no aftermarket options for final drives







. The 1985-1986 (yep, one year only) 'TJ' box has the longest ratios...but it's really hard to find.


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

just saw this thread.My dad and me have a very built 8v drag rabbit wish this trans in it.
We have modified the trans(the valve body and governor mainly).IT has held up to 100+ 7000rpm launches.This a great trans has no problem shifting at 7800.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_
Unfortunately there are no aftermarket options for final drives







. The 1985-1986 (yep, one year only) 'TJ' box has the longest ratios...but it's really hard to find.



I happen to have a TJ in my Jetta MK2, didnt realize it was rare.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (nickzom)*

They're definitely rare. I scrapped a car with one in it, in a moment of stupidity







. 
This is really odd, I was thinking about 010s this morning and this thread pops up. A sign perhaps?


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_They're definitely rare. I scrapped a car with one in it, in a moment of stupidity







. 
This is really odd, I was thinking about 010s this morning and this thread pops up. A sign perhaps?











possibly. I was going to go turbo with a 5 speed swap, but it looks like my trans would probably hold 250 hp?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

With a 'freshening', it'll easily hold that much. These boxes are the same (more or less) as the ones that were used in the Audi 4000/5000/5000T, and they held up quite well in such heavy cars







.
Slow shifting on a stock box will be your only enemy, although there are options (as mentioned above).


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

*FV-QR*

good to know


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## jwfreed (Mar 30, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (Rabbit6)*

this was a description of exactly what I just did. I had a problem of VERY hard shifting when the car was cold but after it warmed up, things worked fine. I suspected a dirty valve body and your description of the process was pretty good, although, I'll tell you what, you better watch those f'ning ball bearings!


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

*FV-QR*

so I am going to AutoX my car, how should i go about doing it with the auto? manually shift? leave the shifter in 2nd?


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (nickzom)*

Depends on the track. 
I would leave it in 1st. If you find you're bouncing off the rev limiter for more than about 2 seconds between corners, then put it in 2nd. Just leave it there and let the trans do the thinking. Your hands, feet and brain are going to be busy enough without worrying about what gear you're in. 
Two-foot it at the start. Full throttle and full brake. Release the brake to launch. That'll speed things up a bit off the start.
Good luck, and please post results on here. I'm taking my turbo G60 010 rabbit to the autocross soon! Can't wait!


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

*FV-QR*

this is the track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M9pAr5Swp0


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

*FV-QR*

TJ trans vs TC diesel trans http://www.fatboyraceworks.com...are=1


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (nickzom)*

Pretty short track. Lotsa 1st gear, for sure, maybe a touch of 2nd. I think you'd need some good power to make any real use of 2nd gear here, given the sloppy, slow shifting of a stocker trans (if that's what you're running) I'd stick to the above formula.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

*FV-QR*

i am running a stock TJ


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

*FV-QR*

also, anyone that has run a manual valve body, what shifter did you use, and did you still have engine breaking in first and second?


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (nickzom)*

Here's my experimental method of disabling the main accumulator.
1. make a plug. I used an M10x1 pressure plate bolt.








You don't need locktite, or a sealant. It can only go as deep as the threads you cut, and can't back off because of the seperator plate. The one lame thing of this method is that the pressure port you take gauge measurements from is disabled. It's not a big deal, because you have to at least take the tranny pan off, if not the valve body out to make pressure changes. So it's really nothing extra to pull your new accumulator plug out, or simply don't install it until you've achieved your desired line pressure, and won't be measuring anymore.

2. Pull the valve body and locate the accumulator supply passage.









It's an ideal time to clean the valve body as described earlier in this thread.

3. Drill the hole out. 1/2"-3/4" deep will do. I believe 11/32" drill for an M10x1.0 tap. Make absolutely certain all chips are removed from everywhere.









4. Tap. Remove debris.









5. Deburr. Remove debris.









6. Install plug. No threadlock. No sealant, No pipethread plug.









7. Finished result. Make sure it's threaded in below the surface.









8. For now, jam the accumulator piston and spring back in, and reassemble everything, including your freshly cleaned valve body. Re-fill with new ATF according to bentley (3L) and double check the level at operating temp on a level surface. Take her for a drive and enjoy your markedly improved 2-3 shift


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

*FV-QR*

very nice, what does the accumulator do exactly?


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (nickzom)*

Gear shifting is performed by 'muscle fluid' being directed from the shift valves to the actuators. To make the shift soft, slow and smooth, some of this muscle fluid is directed into the accumulator while on it's way to the actuator. It is used to push the accumulator piston down against spring pressure.
By eliminating the accumulator, all of the muscle fluid's work is concentrated on the shift, and not wasted pushing accumulators around. This causes the shift to happen quite a bit more rapidly. I don't think this is the be-all end-all answer to a perfect 2-3 shift. I have a feeling that something needs to be done to cause the 2nd gear brake band to release faster as well as speeding up the direct clutch engagement. But this is certainly an improvement over stock.


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## rjev (May 29, 2009)

some day when I'm feeling braver I'm going to try some of these things. great info guys. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

bump


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

DAMN! I've been missing out! 
Thanks for the info on the accumulator mod, if I decide to try out the auto a bit sooner than later, I'm going to give this a try. I wonder if setting the brake band a bit looser would help it disengage quicker? I should be running boost by the end of the week, if I can find a spare oil pan to weld a return on to. I *really* miss my 010 G60 Mk1 .


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

Daskoupe said:


> just saw this thread.My dad and me have a very built 8v drag rabbit wish this trans in it.
> We have modified the trans(the valve body and governor mainly).IT has held up to 100+ 7000rpm launches.This a great trans has no problem shifting at 7800.


 Would you like to shear information about the modifications done to the transmission? 
What kind of torque converter are you using?


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

what he said^ MOAR info please


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

Mr. Tickles said:


> I put a reverse pattern full manual valve body in one not too long ago. It's pretty cool to say the least. Input shafts seem to be the weak point though.


 I`ll donate you some money, if you open up that valve body and supply me with pictures and requested info after looking at supplied pictures.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

bump


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## Mr. Tickles (Jul 25, 1999)

I would, but I'm out of the country for and indefinite amount of time. I'm sure the stock valve body could be modified to make it fully manual.





nickzom said:


> also, anyone that has run a manual valve body, what shifter did you use, and did you still have engine breaking in first and second?


Used the stock shifter.





Daskoupe said:


> just saw this thread.My dad and me have a very built 8v drag rabbit wish this trans in it.
> We have modified the trans(the valve body and governor mainly).IT has held up to 100+ 7000rpm launches.This a great trans has no problem shifting at 7800.


How are you getting a stall that high and not ruining the converter?


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

anyone ever cam an automatic? did it work well?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

A buddy of mine did, responded the same as any manual car would.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> A buddy of mine did, responded the same as any manual car would.


what size cam? so no stalling at stop lights?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It was a 270* IIRC, something mild-ish since it was his wife's DD. No stalling that I know of, he probably would have gotten his ass kicked if it had .


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> It was a 270* IIRC, something mild-ish since it was his wife's DD. No stalling that I know of, he probably would have gotten his ass kicked if it had .



so a 288 might work in a 3 speed?


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

*Can anybody explain this a little more please?*



umeng2002 said:


> What are the signs of a bad accumulator piston?


 
Capable mechanic but tranny neophyte. Anybody got a better explanation how to fix this or website where I can read up on this?


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## rjev (May 29, 2009)

nickzom said:


> so a 288 might work in a 3 speed?


 I'd like to know this as well. I'm thinking about a worked head with one of these in it for my bish.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

rjev said:


> I'd like to know this as well. I'm thinking about a worked head with one of these in it for my bish.


 
i have a big valve head, and 288 cam sitting here so that is why I am asking


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

daskoupe is a washout. I think he's bullshyting about that transmission. Doesn't want to give out any info.:thumbdown:


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

here's a couple vids of my auto rabbit wasting some rubber. 
Shifts into 2nd during the burnout. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV5-L3IVt_w 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWWPn5pB8Gc


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I love those videos . 
I just finished up my turbo conversion, and over the winter I'll be building up an 010 for it. Got a MkII box for free the other week, but the budget for anything big is gone for the year . I'm torn between the Rabbit6 accumulator mods, and a full manual VB .


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> I love those videos .
> I just finished up my turbo conversion, and over the winter I'll be building up an 010 for it. Got a MkII box for free the other week, but the budget for anything big is gone for the year . I'm torn between the Rabbit6 accumulator mods, and a full manual VB .


 
manual VB :thumbup:


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

as long as the MVB makes the tranny shift fast, that'd be cool... if you don't mind ALWAYS shifting. I kinda like letting it do the work.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

just wanted to say, Bars Leaks 2 part auto transmission fix worked very well in my car.


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## Mr. Tickles (Jul 25, 1999)

Rabbit6 said:


> as long as the MVB makes the tranny shift fast, that'd be cool... if you don't mind ALWAYS shifting. I kinda like letting it do the work.


The shifting (at least in the one I built) is instantaneous.

And to an earlier question, yes engine braking is still there.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

Mr. Tickles said:


> The shifting (at least in the one I built) is instantaneous.
> 
> And to an earlier question, yes engine braking is still there.



ok cool, cause I heard the some guys running MVB's in GM transmissions say that engine braking in first and second is non existent.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yeah, a buddy with a MVB in his Omni GLH turbo (auto swap), has no problems with engine braking. The dodge MVB still seems to regulate pressure vs. RPM though, so his low-speed shifts aren't super hard. I'm willing to put up with full pressure shifts at all times, if it means I get the lovely automatic-tranny-turbo-spool sound .


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## motorcarman (Nov 9, 2008)

*010 lost threads*

rabbit 6
I have a question about the accumulator piston spring and threaded block plug. It disables the pressure port for readings but can't the spring have a solid rod installed in the center to prevent the piston from moving or can the spring be eliminated and just let the plastic piston sit on the valve body so there is no movement?? (no accumulator) Or a solid rod altogether??

I have a 1982 Rabbit with a CR diesel, 5 speed manual (good condition, dailey driver). I have a 1985 Jetta GL with 341,000 miles (owned since 1987 and worn out) 1.8 gasoline with auto trans (010 with TJ final drive 3.12:1) (wife's really old car from years ago). I also obtained a 1985 MF 1.6 TD engine with 5 speed manual. After reading this thread I decided to rebuild the 010 TJ and install it into the 1982 Rabbit coupled to the MF TD engine. I tore down the 010 and the 2nd gear band servo piston pushrod 'E' clip was broken. The seal was in several pieces but I will get the steels and frictions along with gaskets and seals.

I also have a 1980 Rabbit 1.6 gasoline with the autobox (Wife's REALLY REALLY old car from WAY back and melted engine thanks to my youngest brother) but the final drive ratio is 3.76:1. I'll get the selector lever and cables from the 1980 Rabbit and the rest of the parts from the other cars.

I have 10 acres and as you can guess I normally don't sell cars, I just park them when they get worn or damaged beyond being cost effective.

I just want a snappy shift with out worn clutches. Can the accumulator piston be left in place with a solid rod or spring eliminated?????

bob gauff
decatur,TX


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

motorcarman said:


> I have a question about the accumulator piston spring and threaded block plug. It disables the pressure port for readings but can't the spring have a solid rod installed in the center to prevent the piston from moving or can the spring be eliminated and just let the plastic piston sit on the valve body so there is no movement?? (no accumulator) Or a solid rod altogether??


All those options do the same thing. The reason plugging is better is because it eliminates the possibility of the sealing rings on the accumulator leaking. Also it eliminates the possibility of the plastic piston cracking. But for me I think I would prefer having the pressure tap working.

We used to take out the spring on some 350's. We also blocked the accumulator on some 700's.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

Hi
My very first attempt at main accumulator modding was to put a piece of pipe inside the accumulator spring. In that case, it reduced accumulator piston travel by 75%. It worked well, but got sloppy after a while. I disassembled it later to find that the pipe had been deformed and mushroomed at both ends from the hydraulic pressure. I did not bother to look for a different material, I just tried the plug method mentioned and it worked. 
The next problem is that the 2nd gear does not release fast enough. I am working on that problem now.


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## motorcarman (Nov 9, 2008)

I am considering putting the plug in place with a VERY small hole drilled through it to limit flow but still keep the pressure readable. It would take a long time for the pressure to stabilize but I think I could read it if I needed to.

I put a Transgo 400 1,2 in a THM400 and they gave options for shift tuning by drilling certain holes of different diameters.
I think that I could get a snappy shift with a tiny hole. (yes/no???)
any thoughts???

bob gauff


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

That's in interesting idea. After thinking about it for a bit, I believe it might not be wise. Leaving the accumulator intact, and restricting it's supply orifice would allow it to continue operating for an extended period after the shift has been achieved. So hydraulic power that should be in use to apply full force against the clutches is being wasted on SLOWLY driving the accumulator down for a period of time after the shift occurs. Yes, the shift is likely faster, but the clutch clamping force is diminished after the shift until the accumulator fills. Make sense?
still working on these issues!


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## motorcarman (Nov 9, 2008)

Yes it makes sense but I am hoping that the pump makes pressure faster than the accumulator fills and the the end is reached when the gear is still engaged. The diesel MF engine is not high HP (68) so it would take an extended full throttle for each gear and rapid pressure/shift/pressure would not be likely.

I'll try it and if it fails I can always cut another plug or braze the plug hole and redrill a smaller one. I don't know if I will try a HEX plug or a threaded stud with a slot cut. I have a drill set with #61 to #80 from the carb jet drilling days but that is SMALL and a pin vise is needed to keep the bit from breaking.

It's good to have 5 or 6 cars to drive when you experiment with one or another.

bob gauff


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## volksbunny (Jan 12, 2008)

my 92 cabby, when gas is applied (it feels like i'am riding the clutch like a manual) but only from a stop or crawl. fluid level is fine. typically when cold, any ideas what it may be?

also Iam running an Autotech 270 cam with a 010, and no stalling, or severe dip in rpm.


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## bevboyy (Apr 20, 2007)

It's slipping.


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## edwin.dario (Jan 18, 2010)

Hi all, 

I posted a question regarding my issues below in the Cabby forum but due to the nature of my issue, it might be better to post it here for the benefit of anyone who encounters the same issues.

Approx. 2 months ago I replaced my automatic transmission's filter and gasket. I poured a little less than 3 litres of Dexron II oil after the change.

Almost immediately thereafter (once the car had sat for a couple of days), I had a massive leak from the bottom of the dipstick / filler neck. I therefore removed the filler neck and replaced the small round gasket before re-installing and seating the filler neck.

I am still experiencing leakage from the same area, but only when the car sits after a couple of days. 

Anybody have a clue as to why this is happening?

I'm going to drop the pan again, replace the filler neck gasket and change the oil.... anybody have any recommendations for oil?

Also, can I re-use the same rubber gasket or should I wait the 2-weeks it'll take me if I order a new one?

Thanks all.


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

Here's why it happens after sitting a few days. The torque converter is full of fluid. Most of that fluid "sits" high. Higher than the fluid level of the trans. Over time that fluid "drains back" into the pan. Making the fluid level overfull. 

The new O-ring on the fill tube should have fixed it but its possible you cut the new O-ring or maybe the fill tube has some damage. 

Excessive drainback could be an indication of wear in the trans.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Found a link to a ton of VAG self-study manuals, and there is an 010 one...although it's all in german. It's sorta helpful because it shows there are TWO ports feeding fluid to the accumulator, not just one. Pages 46-47 are of particular fun, it shows exactly what is receiving/sending fluid pressure with the stick in 'D' . The accumulator is only half-deleted, according to those pages. That's the closest thing to fluid diagrams I have been able to find .

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_8.PDF

There are a LOT more self-study guides there, but all the early stuff is in german.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Just in case anyone is still paying attention...the shift gates of a B&M Unimatic shifter mate up perfectly with the 010. Whipped up a ghetto jig and gave it a test...worked perfectly .


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> Just in case anyone is still paying attention...the shift gates of a B&M Unimatic shifter mate up perfectly with the 010. Whipped up a ghetto jig and gave it a test...worked perfectly .



is that a ratcheting shifter?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

No, but if the basic, run-of-the mill shifter works...then the ratcheting ones will too .


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> No, but if the basic, run-of-the mill shifter works...then the ratcheting ones will too .



good, i like ratcheting shifters.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, it's finally time for me to suck it up and build an 010 for myself. I degreased and pressure-washed a TNA code box (Mk2) I got for free, and now I reek of chemical cleaner. I figure I'll try out the accumulator delete, add ports for a cooler, and try to get a few more clutches in those drums . 

I don't really need a crazy-tough box, seeing as how I'm running a dual-carbed 1.8 8v...but hey, might as well give it a shot .


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

so i am now looking at this option  

and you know what i want to do..... so if you find any parts extra, LMK. 

:beer:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Will do. As I strip it down, I'll post photos. I'm going with mostly-stock internals, but I might order a few things from transaxleengineering.com and IPT.com. The Audi 5000 turbo boxes came with 5 clutches up front and 5 or 4 clutches in the rear, and those are heavy cars...so it should grab nicely with 5/5 in my Mk1 . 

Don't abandon your other project, since it's already built...but you'll see that the internals are awfully similar to what's in the 010 (more or less).


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Just got an email back from IPT.com, they can convert the VB to full-manual too. I'll possibly be shipping my VB off to them shortly, since the strip-down has started. Two options for manual valve bodies...this just keeps getting better .


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> Just got an email back from IPT.com, they can convert the VB to full-manual too. I'll possibly be shipping my VB off to them shortly, since the strip-down has started. Two options for manual valve bodies...this just keeps getting better .


 
how much is it through them? i was quoted like $400 from transaxle engineering


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

what about transbrake???? 

and who builds the converters??? 

i will be doing the extreme end of things, so i will do the WILD build


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

nickzom said:


> how much is it through them? i was quoted like $400 from transaxle engineering


 Waiting for a response. Either way, I'm going full manual, no matter the cost. I love hard-shifting automatics. 

I haven't researched converters or anything like that, but I think IPT can do it too. Their full name is Import Performance Transmissions, and they have a LOT for the Mk3 and up auto boxes, so the old stuff should be cake (fingers crossed). Their DSM stuff is top notch, got a few friends running their shift kits into the 10s .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got the response already! 
It would be $475 and I have to ship them my VB. He says it's a three-day turnaround, which is pretty good IMO. I was quoted around $500 from transaxle engineering, no core required, so it seems the pricing is fair. I'll probably give IPT a try, he also said that at the power levels I'm going to be running (150whp or so, in the future), no other mods are needed to the box. 

I'm starting to get really stoked...


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

cool. i have been on IPT mail list for about 3 yrs now  

talked alot with them about auto trans's.....


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

well, when my trans finally gives out, its getting a manual VB then.


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

and diff? spool? weld it up? 

what R&P ratio's are available? 

i found a motor/trans for $95 complete, semi local. dunno if i want to drive to get it.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Unfortunately, the only desireable R&P/final drive is from the 85-86 Golf/jetta boxes coded "TJ". It has a 3.12 final drive, which would push it into the 140+mph territory (on stock sized tires) at the end of the 1/4. The MkII boxes are all 3.41, and the Mk1 boxes are 3.76. Third gear is always 1.00. You'll really have to play with slick sizing to get the right gearing, because there isn't much choice available in regards to mix-n-match. 

Ah, something else: the stock flexplate is pretty beefy looking, with a thick reinforcement where the converter pads mount, but there are only three feet. It's probably a good idea to look into adding a fourth or fifth pad to the converter, and beefing up the center section. The turbo dodge guys tear the centers out fairly frequently.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> Unfortunately, the only desireable R&P/final drive is from the 85-86 Golf/jetta boxes coded "TJ". It has a 3.12 final drive, which would push it into the 140+mph territory (on stock sized tires) at the end of the 1/4. The MkII boxes are all 3.41, and the Mk1 boxes are 3.76. Third gear is always 1.00. You'll really have to play with slick sizing to get the right gearing, because there isn't much choice available in regards to mix-n-match.


 
i happen to have a TJ box in mine


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Started the build: 

-After a can of degreaser, and a pressure-washer rampage: 









-Pulled the diff cover off to drain the fluid and take a peek: 









-Ring gear seems to be BOLTED on...: 









-The diff cover (comes complete with mounts for Mk1 and Mk2 boxes): 









-Valve body/underbelly: 










I'm building up a TNA code box (Mk2), since I got it free. The ATF didn't smell burnt at all, both fluids came out clean and clear, and I found traces of anti-seize on the pan bolts. It has to have been serviced semi-regularly, so this is good . I'm going to have to strip down my Mk1 box for it's 90mm flanges, since this box comes with 100s...and I don't feel like buying new axles and grinding my early knuckles.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Preliminary measurements (done on the drums from a Mk2 diesel auto that I disassembled a long time ago) show that it'll be simple to add more clutches to both drums. I'm confused by VWs clearances though, they seem VERY loose vs. the turbo dodge stuff I'm more familiar with. I know if the packs are too tight, then it could drag quite a bit in neutral...but tighter clutches means sharper shifts (sorta). I'm mixing and matching parts, so my measurements could be off a bit (using front clutches in rear drum, etc)...fingers crossed it goes better when I take my TNA apart. 

I've also thought about experimenting a bit with the 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves, shimming them slightly to make the shifts quicker...although that's purely guesswork.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I've added some more technical documents/rebuild manuals to my webspace, here's the link: 

010 Documentation 

There is a file in there titled "A413 Tranny Performance Upgrades", and that is about the typical Turbo Dodge automatic. There are no reasons why we can't use the same mods they do, except for the fact that the 010 isn't as well plotted-out. It's a no-brainer to add clutches and steels, and the valve bodies do have mostly the same devices in them (as do most fluid-controlled autos). No reason their mods wouldn't work for us.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got the extra clutch installed in the forward drum, easy peasy. It would have been a lot more difficult if I didn't have any spare parts though, some hunting for the right thicknesses of shims/steels/etc would be necessary. I lucked out and managed to get everything within spec. I only did the forward drum, since the direct drum already had 4 clutches, and is only active during and after the 2-3 shift. I figured the forward drum could make due with another clutch, since it's always 'on'. 

...and of course, after I get everything back together, making a huge mess of ATF on my garage floor...the turbine shaft won't seat properly :banghead:. It's all got to come apart tomorrow so I can make sure nothing's binding/broken. 

Sigh.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Went out to the garage before work (6:30am) and separated the case AGAIN. Turbine shaft is seated perfectly now . 

Now...valve body time. 

[edit] I snapped some pics of the disassembly, but was so frustrated last night I didn't upload them to the PC . I can put them up tonight, and take some pics of what I did to the forward drum to show how to do the 5 clutch mod.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Forward drum, stock: 









Stock clutchpack: 









Modded clutchpack (important to retain proper clearances, measure twice): 









As you can see, it's cake. That thick pressure plate goes at the 'top' of the stack, under the circlip. You have to grind/machine off the excess in order to squeeze the extra clutch/steel in there...or you can trim a bit off the bottom plate as well as the top plate. I tore down a TD 010 last year and happened to have the spare parts lying around, and was lucky enough to be able to use the TD forward drum lower plate, which is a two piece vs. the TNA single. It's also a lot thinner . I was able to get away with using a regular steel plate for the pressure plate, which is a common mod for the dodge A413, so I figured I wouldn't have anything to worry about. Time will tell I guess .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ridiculous question time: which side of the flexplate does the thicker spacer go on? It's been a while since I've done an 010 install, and this is on a car that wasn't originally automatic. It's going to suck if I have to keep putting the box on and taking it off in order to get the spacing right...


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

^^^ 
Bueller? 

Pulled the axle stubs/90mm flanges from an old Mk1 box, to swap them onto the TNA box. Did it the easy way this time, pulled the diff cover off and popped the c-clips off to pull the whole assembly out. No springs, just flanges bolted to stubs, interesting. I had to order new 90mm flange seals, since the 100mm ones are a different design, and the 90mm manual boxes have a slightly smaller seal...so it won't fit the 010. Two drive axle flange repair kits are on their way to my preferred local VW dealer, from Fort Worth, Texas. I'm thinking the stock of the early 010 90mm flange kits are getting pretty thin, hopefully I don't screw the install up.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

any of you want a TJ trans?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Don't tempt me, lol. 

Spent a bit of time on it tonight, while waiting for the new seals. I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to retrofit the early 90mm flanges (non-spring-loaded), since I know you can't in the 85+ 020 manual boxes. Turns out you can, all hail the bean counters at VW! To convert to the 100mm flanges in the automatic, they went to a pressed-steel 'cup'/diff-holder (vs. the cast 90mm one) that had more clearance for the bigger flange, and used the usual green spacer/seal combo as in the 020s (except with a 60mm bore vs. the 020's 58mm. 

They used the same 010 case for as long as they used it in their FWD cars, makes flange choices a LOT more extensive . I'm giving up any sort of diff lock though, since my flanges are the solid ones, but that's ok with me. A properly corner-balanced car will allow the diff to work properly anyway (to a point). Maybe one day I'll convert to the larger flanges to take advantage of the shim kits out there...but it's not likely. 

I'm not so sure about the manual valve body anymore, I've got to start prepping the daily for winter duties, so $500 would be better spent on a new set of hakkas and a tuneup. The throttle valve setup might be difficult to work around though, due to my carb linkage needing more throw than the stock TB. Hmmmm.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

you sure? it just sitting doing nothing............


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

...where are you located?
Perhaps my arm could be twisted...


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> ...where are you located?
> Perhaps my arm could be twisted...



Latrobe, PA. it still needs pulled out of the car, but that is no problem


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Thinkin' hard about that .

No progress for the moment, still waiting on the drive flange seals to arrive. Bought myself a nice new Dewalt corded drill though, in order to tap the case for cooler ports. A bit overkill...but it'd be tough to get the box up onto my standing drillpress, lol.

Starting to get the 'will this stupid thing work' jitters. I hate not knowing if I've put everything together properly, although there are SERIOUSLY no parts to the inside of these boxes. It's like lego. I hate waiting  .


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

yeah, i mean when some gives you a 5 speed for practically free, you think hard about ditching the automatic.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Phone call to IPT: "Who told you we could make them fully manual?"

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Transaxle engineering won't answer their phone. WTF is going on with the world today. I've got money burning a hole in my pocket, and nobody wants it.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> Phone call to IPT: "Who told you we could make them fully manual?"
> 
> :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
> 
> Transaxle engineering won't answer their phone. WTF is going on with the world today. I've got money burning a hole in my pocket, and nobody wants it.



he is online right now, send him a email 
♫ 
[email protected]


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yeah, just did, a few minutes back. No reply.

I'm ready to drop the coin, why won't someone answer the damn phone.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

huh, he answered real fast when I talked to him before


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

How can you tell he's online?

I'm a very impatient person, so this isn't helping my motivation any. In today's day and age, not having a proper web-sales website, or a non-generic email account, is pretty dumb. I'm almost ready to call off this whole project, since I'm only into it for $60. That's how impatient I am. I have no time to wait for folks who won't answer their phone when it's the only way they make non-local sales.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> How can you tell he's online?
> 
> I'm a very impatient person, so this isn't helping my motivation any. In today's day and age, not having a proper web-sales website, or a non-generic email account, is pretty dumb. I'm almost ready to call off this whole project, since I'm only into it for $60. That's how impatient I am. I have no time to wait for folks who won't answer their phone when it's the only way they make non-local sales.



he is in my contacts in GMail, and it said a little while ago that he was online, says offline now.

yeah i know it sucks dude.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Just sent another email. 
If I can't reach them by the end of monday, I'm buying engine management, a 4 puck clutch, and tossing my autobox in the trash. An automatic without a manual valve body is no good to me, since that's what I thought I could get. It's going to be a loooooooooooong weekend .


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> Just sent another email.
> If I can't reach them by the end of monday, I'm buying engine management, a 4 puck clutch, and tossing my autobox in the trash. An automatic without a manual valve body is no good to me, since that's what I thought I could get. It's going to be a loooooooooooong weekend .



you need a hug?  im sorry I had to. good luck :thumbup:


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

nickzom said:


> good, i like ratcheting shifters.


I`m using a ratchet shifter, but I had to lengthen the input lever a few milimeters.
Otherwise the patterns wouldn`t match.

But it works perfekt.

Martijn.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

nickzom said:


> you need a hug?  im sorry I had to. good luck :thumbup:


lol, yeah, I'm being a douche, I know. I've waited all week to order this stupid thing and now I can't. I'm a bit disappointed. It sucks to think that if I ever have a problem with the vb, that the company would be hard to reach for tech support...since they don't seem to answer their phone. This is the problem with a 'global' marketplace IMO. Do I necessarily feel comfortable spending that much money on something, when I can't reach the company to ask them a question or place my order? Same goes for IPT, if one guy says I can get a full manual vb for $475, and the other guy says "no way", but they can build me a firm-shift version of the stocker for $475...not inspiring confidence in me.

I'm not a hard core drag racer any more, but a 'stock' automatic still doesn't cut it. If I want firm shifts, I'll delete the accumulator and increase the line pressure a bit, instead of spending $475, and waiting two weeks.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

i hear you man, hope they respond to you!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Found a nice powerpoint that shows how the VB of a torqueflite 727 works, which is a simple 3 spd hydro box like the 010. It's been very informative. I'd like to figure out which are the feed holes for 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves in the 010 valve body transfer plate, I'd like to experiment with enlarging them to firm up the shifts. Wish I had a spare VB .


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

grab that TJ then, and play


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> Found a nice powerpoint that shows how the VB of a torqueflite 727 works, which is a simple 3 spd hydro box like the 010. It's been very informative. I'd like to figure out which are the feed holes for 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves in the 010 valve body transfer plate, I'd like to experiment with enlarging them to firm up the shifts. Wish I had a spare VB .



you can have a whole trans. :thumbup:

what that dude said^


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I just have to drive to PA, lol.

I'd have to see if I could talk the wife into a road trip...could be interesting :laugh:


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

if that shizzle was withing 3-400 miles of me, for free, i'd drive it. whats a day?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It's finding a free day that's the problem . The 'booked-by-wife' weekends are thick until the snow flies. I've been doing some reading and found this: 





It's using a VW automatic...


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

damn you!!!!!!!

111mph in the 1/8th is what i trap for 10.05 @ 138 in the 1/4!!!!!

:laugh:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

If you go back a ways...apparently the Pizzo brothers used VW 3 speeds too....
You'll want to read this, VERY good info:
http://www.cal-look.com/forum/vw-drag-racing/vanagon-automatic-in-a-race-car/


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

damn. bring them into it too


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

i am not against shipping by the way.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, depending on how my current experimentation goes...might take you up on all that .

Today, while poking around in the garage, I decided to start with a modded stock VB instead of the full manual. The turbo dodge crowd (and the GM/Dodge/Ford guys for that matter) all seem to have a 'starting point' for shift mods. Increasing the size of the 1-2 and 2-3 shift feed holes in the separator plate, deleting the accumulator, and increasing the line pressure. I did the first two today, the third is trickier since the VB seems to have multiple adjustment screws...and I don't know which one does what. Here's the pics of today's action:

Bone stock, virgin VB









VB split in half, ALWAYS PULL IT APART WITH THE VB PORTION ON THE WORKBENCH! You'll be picking up check balls and trying to put them back in if you don't .









The separator plate, the two 'alleged' feed holes. I have zero idea if they're the right ones, but by working the fluid path back in my head, comparing to the location of the 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves, I made a jump in logic and got my drill out. The holes were ~0.040" in size, and I drilled them out to 3/32". A LOT larger, mainly to see what happens . The possible 2-3 feed hole also feeds the kickdown valve, so I think I'm on the right track. I don't recommend trying this just yet, I can't promise it will work.









Now, the accumulator delete. Rabbit6 already posted up how to block ONE of the holes, but there is a second that needs plugging as well. If you look at the first pic, the top right portion of the VB is where the accumulator piston goes. You'll see three screws and one hole, on the top right corner. This hole is what feeds the inside of the accumulator piston, the Rabbit6 mod only blocks the feed to the top/outside of the piston. This means that there is a large cavity that is now filling and draining, I think. There is an easy way to block this hole, since you can leave the piston out if you're deleting it. You can either make a new plate, that's slightly larger on the one side...or you can ghetto it up like I did. I took the stock plate, and welded a 'bump' onto it to plug the hole. It's not pretty...but it works .


















Now...the line pressure problem. The two visible adjustment screws are the main pressure limiting screw, and the intermediate pressure limiting screw. The main pressure screw is hidden under the plate, so I'd assume it's not the one to adjust. To increase the pressure, you turn the screws COUNTER-CLOCKWISE, trust me. I added two turns to the main pressure limiter screw (the one on the left), but I think I'll undo it in order to get a baseline. I can't check the pressure, so I'll have to go by the seat of the pants when I get the car running. I'm not sure if by turning the screw CC that I LIMIT the pressure going to the VB or if I increase it, so for now it stays stock.









The car is up on stands, so the minute I get my axle seals, I'll start the swap. Next week should be good .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm now torn. I had a nice conversation with Jeff at transaxle engineering today, and he let me know a few things about a 'built' box. To use their manual VB, upgrading the pump drive is a must (like Mr.Tickles said a few pages back), because at WOT the vb runs 130-140 psi of line pressure vs. the stock ~90. The stock pump drive is made of powdered metal, so it doesn't last long. As well, the stock clutches are paper-based, so he recommended Raybestos ones (which he has in stock) that are metal-based. I'll be calling back on thursday, after I've thought about my project a bit more. I'm happy with the thought of my stock/bumped-up box, but the lure of a strong 010 is hard to resist.

I really don't want to take that box apart again, lol.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> I'm now torn. I had a nice conversation with Jeff at transaxle engineering today, and he let me know a few things about a 'built' box. To use their manual VB, upgrading the pump drive is a must (like Mr.Tickles said a few pages back), because at WOT the vb runs 130-140 psi of line pressure vs. the stock ~90. The stock pump drive is made of powdered metal, so it doesn't last long. As well, the stock clutches are paper-based, so he recommended Raybestos ones (which he has in stock) that are metal-based. I'll be calling back on thursday, after I've thought about my project a bit more. I'm happy with the thought of my stock/bumped-up box, but the lure of a strong 010 is hard to resist.
> 
> I really don't want to take that box apart again, lol.


so you heard from him? cool


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yeah, I got an email from him on the weekend (ok, that's pretty cool for a business to do), and called him this morning (well, afternoon for me). The pump drives are out of stock right now, but more will arrive on thursday, so I'll call back then and order my goodies. I just got finished stripping the box down again, I love how easy it is, lol. I figure I'll order all the stuff I need to make a kick ass 010, might as well go big while I'm in there. I don't know if I'll do the 5" direct drum, but I suppose I'll talk to Jeff about that on thursday. I've got to remember to ask him about the turbine shaft too, to see if he thinks it's a weak link or not.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

no MVB then?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm going to get the MVB, but I'll try out my DIY shiftkit one too. It's going to be an expensive week, lol


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)




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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

The '3-4 working day' wait for my drive axle seals has turned into 'huh, wonder why they're taking so long'  . I hate ordering from the dealership.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)




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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

so, i am still here in the background. if you get this thing sorted out and strong, you know i will be interested in one built for me, right? 

this way you can get some form of compensation (aside from the satisfaction of doing it yourself) for your hard work and R&D.....


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hadn't thought of that, lol. I just like sharing the stuff I learn for the betterment of the community. I guess if it works, we'll have to talk, lol.

Tomorrow is the day I order everything: VB, kevlar band, metal-based clutches, chromoly pump drive, and probably anything else I get talked into :laugh: .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

This project might get back-burnered for a while, sorry everyone. Winter's coming and I need to get the daily prepped for the icy commute. I'm still waiting for my drive flange seals, which at this point seem like a fantasy that'll never happen. For now, I'm going to concentrate on the motor I'm building for the car, which I just picked up last night. Since everyone is having such success with ABAs and E85 lately...I'm going to give it a shot too. Grabbed an OBD1 ABA last night, and some sweet oldschool SDS goodness. If I could find a DECENT mitsubishi-flanged turbo, I'd be ready to go (made a manifold for a 14b a while back, turbo was pooched, removed and went back to carbs).

Hold tight everyone, keep checking back, I'm not abandoning anything .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I have a disease. It's called Auto-itis.
Today I ordered my manual VB, chromoly pump drive, kevlar band, and Jeff at Transaxle Engineering was kind enough to throw in the early drive axle seals that I need as a freebie (since VW has no idea where the ones I ordered three weeks ago are :screwy: ). They're coming UPS Ground, so I'll have to pay through the nose to pick up the box at the depot...but hey, I'll worry about that later .

He filled in a few gaps too, in regards to shifters and such. An aftermarket shifter designed for a TH400 will be a perfect match for the gates in the 010. He also mentioned that it's a really good idea to tighten up the clearances in the direct drum, he's seen it wear a groove in the pump 'shaft' that it rests on (in stock setting). I'll see if I can add a 5th clutch tonight .

The valve body is a stock unit, modified, but the separator plate and distribution plate are completely new items. The dist plate is cut out of billet! . This should be an interesting project...


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

i may not go 5 speed after all.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It's funny, because as I was starting the mock-up of all the turbo stuff on the engine destined for my Rabbit...I couldn't bring myself to buy a clutch for it. A decent clutch/pp combo from Bully (local to me, I've run some prototype VW stuff for them in the past, good guys) would set me back almost as much as the VB/pump drive/band/etc. Figured it'd be easier to build the DP too, with the auto on, since the starter is in the back anyway. I'll be making a beefy heat shield, that's for sure. I don't want any of the heat-soak-no-start conditions with this one (my Mk1 G60 010 used to leave me stranded at times, while I waited for the starter to cool down, lol).


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> It's funny, because as I was starting the mock-up of all the turbo stuff on the engine destined for my Rabbit...I couldn't bring myself to buy a clutch for it. A decent clutch/pp combo from Bully (local to me, I've run some prototype VW stuff for them in the past, good guys) would set me back almost as much as the VB/pump drive/band/etc. Figured it'd be easier to build the DP too, with the auto on, since the starter is in the back anyway. I'll be making a beefy heat shield, that's for sure. I don't want any of the heat-soak-no-start conditions with this one (my Mk1 G60 010 used to leave me stranded at times, while I waited for the starter to cool down, lol).



way I see it

Trans= $100
everything to hook it up=$200
clutch=? 

may as well build the Auto


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, time will tell if my direct clutches are too tight. I added a fifth clutch into the pack, cutting the clearance down from 2.3mm to 0.88mm. This is with the 2.0mm circlip, so I might splurge and get a thinner one from VW to bump my endplay up to 1.0mm or 1.2mm...just to be on the safe side. I neglected to ask Jeff at Transaxle what his suggested measurement is, ah well. Looks like I'm experimenting a bit :laugh:.

As long as the turbine shaft isn't a weak point, I think I've got a box that can handle some decent power here: 5 clutches forward drum, 5 clutches rear drum (stock Mk1 is 3/3, stock Mk2 is 4/4, and Audi 5000 turbo is 5/5 with a larger direct drum), tight clearances, manual valve body, kevlar band, chromoly pump drive, and a whole lot of crossed fingers .


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

i want one of those 5000 auto trans's, FWd.

or anything strong and auto.

still hanging around waitin on this stuff


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Next year I'll definitely be hunting down a 5000 box to rebuild. 4 pinion planetary, larger diameter direct drum, built in ports for a cooler (not a huge deal to drill and tap, but hey...OE upgrades).


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

i think after putting a feeler out yesterday, i may have 3 of them available to me 

but they advise i go with newer, and run the megasquirt trans controller. another thing to look into.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

There's no denying the solenoid-equipped boxes are workable, but the complexity of them just turns me off. I've never seen anyone run one with big power, just the usual "will my tranny hold my BT megawhp y0!" threads :laugh:. I despise the word BT to describe a GT28-based turbo...it's smaller than the oldschool 1.6TD turbo.

If you've got three boxes...wanna part one out? . I'd say ship one my way...but that's a lot of coin for something I can probably find locally, somehow. I'd love to throw a 4-pinion planetary in my current box, not that I'm certain the stock 3-pinion won't hold...but hey, 'while I'm in there'...


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

offer still stands on the TJ by the way. i got a 5 speed for cheap anyway.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm still tempted .

Since my box should be done shortly...I'm wondering if I should go to the effort of putting it on my current carbed 1.8 to see how it works, or wait for the boosted motor? It's just about the end of 'car' season up here, so the boosted motor will have to wait until next spring, whereas the carbed motor is already in and running. I hate doing stuff twice though, especially tranny swaps.


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

i say get the bugs worked out now. that way you have less bugs to work on with the boosted motor.

it really sucks trying to figure out EVERYTHING at once like why it dont run right AND why it dont shift right, and such. if the car runs now, just that much less to troubleshoot at the time.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

This is true. I suppose it would be nice to beat the hell out of the box to see how it holds up, before subjecting it to boost. 105whp can't kill anything, lol.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> This is true. I suppose it would be nice to beat the hell out of the box to see how it holds up, before subjecting it to boost. 105whp can't kill anything, lol.



The hell? that is all you are making? what is your engine set up


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

B4S said:


> I'm wondering if I should go to the effort of putting it on my current carbed 1.8 to see how it works, or wait for the boosted motor?



????


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

My current motor setup is an RV code 1.8, 8v, dual Dellorto carbs, neuspeed 256 cam, megajolt ignition, 2.25" exhaust, and a 4-1 header. It dynoed at 105whp/119tq on the stock dual downpipe and 1.5" exhaust, but I doubt I'm making much more than my previous dyno. It's just really fun to drive, that's all I care about for the moment . I chose to give up boost/racing in order to buy the house, and it's been about 3 years now...so everything is quite settled. I'm going to give it a try again, but nothing crazy yet. I've always been paranoid about VW manual transmissions.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> My current motor setup is an RV code 1.8, 8v, dual Dellorto carbs, neuspeed 256 cam, megajolt ignition, 2.25" exhaust, and a 4-1 header. It dynoed at 105whp/119tq on the stock dual downpipe and 1.5" exhaust, but I doubt I'm making much more than my previous dyno. It's just really fun to drive, that's all I care about for the moment . I chose to give up boost/racing in order to buy the house, and it's been about 3 years now...so everything is quite settled. I'm going to give it a try again, but nothing crazy yet. I've always been paranoid about VW manual transmissions.



so if I build this 1.8 I have been thinking, i may only have 120 WHP?

1.8 Digi block
4 bike carbs
288 cam
long tube header
port and polished head
mill the deck a little
and shave the head a little and get 10:1 or so?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

That would be my guess, yeah. I'm no expert though.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

i was hoping for 150 or so


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Don't think that's going to happen .


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

guess I need a ABA bottom end. 

Big edit:

ABA gots! so same build as before except with a ABA bottom end. maybe cross flow, not sure yet.

/hijack


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Just called Transaxle to get the tracking #. Holy moly...it was shipped on the 6th, and it's already in Ontario, Canada! Provided it doesn't stay too long in customs, I should be putting the box back together next week. I also took the time to ask Jeff about the turbine shaft, and he says it's a definite weak link. He had to answer the other line before I got a power figure out of him, but he said as long as I keep an eye on it (and the input shaft), I'll be fine. He's had some made out of 300M in the past, but the costs are ~$600 to do so. That's steep, but considering a full SQS gearset for a manual box is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than that...it's worth it IMO. Time will tell if I ever have to upgrade that far, but I'm glad there's options.

Thankfully I've also got a box of spare parts, and an EQ code Rabbit box as a backup...just in case .


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> Just called Transaxle to get the tracking #. Holy moly...it was shipped on the 6th, and it's already in Ontario, Canada! Provided it doesn't stay too long in customs, I should be putting the box back together next week. I also took the time to ask Jeff about the turbine shaft, and he says it's a definite weak link. He had to answer the other line before I got a power figure out of him, but he said as long as I keep an eye on it (and the input shaft), I'll be fine. He's had some made out of 300M in the past, but the costs are ~$600 to do so. That's steep, but considering a full SQS gearset for a manual box is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than that...it's worth it IMO. Time will tell if I ever have to upgrade that far, but I'm glad there's options.
> 
> Thankfully I've also got a box of spare parts, and an EQ code Rabbit box as a backup...just in case .


that us fast, bro. last time I mailed something to you Canadians it took a month to get there.


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

so the building of this trans would be the same for a FWD Audi box? the longitudinal one?

i think the Bentley calls it the same back half and a different front half/bellhousing. the trans i am looking at is 016. it does NOT bolt to a 4cyl, BTW.... but 5, 6, 8 it does.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yeah, in all the VAG autos of that generation (up to 93 IIRC), they used the same transaxle section. The final drive/bellhousing section was changed to fit on different models. Building one up for the longitudinal engines would be the same as for the transverse. 

I was wondering, the turbine shaft has very distinct machining marks on it. Would having that polished out reduce the possibility of weak points? I can see how the grooves would create some torsional weakness (not that I have any idea about this sort of thing, just kinda feeling my way along here). The grooved area of the shaft does not come into contact with anything in the case, so the marks serve no purpose IMO. It'd be cake to chuck this shaft into the drill press, get it spinning, and smooth it out...hmmm.


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

stress riser points?

like a hard 90 degree edge instead of a radiused edge?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

nickzom said:


> that us fast, bro. last time I mailed something to you Canadians it took a month to get there.


They sent it UPS ground, so it's going to cost me an extra fortune in fees to get it from the UPS store up here...but it'll be worth it .

Canada Customs has a tendency to randomly hold on to stuff for weeks at a time though...so I'm crossing my fingers it shows up next week...


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

newto20v said:


> stress riser points?
> 
> like a hard 90 degree edge instead of a radiused edge?


Yeah, I can run my thumbnail down the shaft and hear a zipper sound.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

I think you may like this.  http://picasaweb.google.com/nickzom/CarbedNA20#


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I dig that header. I'm guessing it's a drag car build?


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> I dig that header. I'm guessing it's a drag car build?


 
no, it was cheap, so I am going to cut and weld it into a standard header I think. or i might just cut a hole in my hood. :laugh:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hopefully the vb shows up tomorrow, it's already nearby (according to the tracking #). Today was Thanksgiving (canadian version), so everything was closed . I really want to get this thing finished and installed before it snows. 

Bad news #345: one of the mounting ears is broken off the starter, so I have to get a replacement . Those things are $$, booo.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Sweet, the local VW dealer that lost my order has just called me saying that rather than wait for my lost stuff to come in...they just ordered more. It's costing me $45 tax in, rather than the $31 EACH I was originally quoted. $45 instead of $62 (plus tax) works for me! This means I can at least reassemble the diff section tonight, while waiting for the VB to arrive. 

PROGRESS!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got my NOS auto speedo cable today too!


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

VB is in...$145 in UPS 'bend-over' fees though . Man, this thing has cost me nearly a grand at this point...it had better be good, lol. Pics tonight!


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> VB is in...$145 in UPS 'bend-over' fees though . Man, this thing has cost me nearly a grand at this point...it had better be good, lol. Pics tonight!


 
 should have shipped it USPS.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

They don't do that. They use FedEx or UPS...I foolishly forgot to hear that part . 

My fault completely.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

PIC TIME! Went out at lunch and picked up the package, brought it back into the office...because I'm impatient . 

The kevlar band, chromoly pump drive, and two seals for the early 90mm non-spring-loaded flanges: 









The VB: 



























I don't think anyone is going to be copying this thing any time soon, the distribution plate on the bottom is a completely new piece, cut from billet. I know I'm definitely NOT taking it apart, lol. They mod the actual VB portion as well, many of the valves and plugs are removed, and the only thing I have to swap over is my stock 'manual' valve (also called a shuttle vave), so that the VB interfaces with the shifter mechanism. Jeff was kind enough to answer a few more questions today too, in regards to band tightness. He recommended running the band 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn tighter on the SMALL direct drum (stock MkI/II 4.75"), and 1/4 to 1/2 turn tighter on the large direct drum (Audi 5"). He also mentioned that they mod the filter cover with an extra slot for side feeding, I'll post up a pic when I get it done. 

This weekend is going to be GOOD. HUGE props to Transaxle Engineering! :thumbup:


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)




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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Pics to pass the time... 


















not mine.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, for better or for worse, the transaxle portion is back together. Valve body installed, ATF pickup modded for extra side feed (super easy, no pics needed), and pan back on. I'm thinking now that I really should have checked the shifting before I put the pan back on though...fack. Guess I'll do that tomorrow when I tighten the band down. I also removed the extra levers on the transmission, leaving only the shifter arm. 

I should have the final drive section back together this weekend, and might start on the install if my busted-ear starter still works. 

[edit] Oh yeah, I checked on the VB, and it looks like the pressure port will still be operational .


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

its good you are getting all of this sorted out for us.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Lol...yeah, it's always nice to let someone else figure out the weak points :laugh:. 

If I could afford it, I'd be getting 300M turbine and input shafts right away, but for now I'll have to do my testing with the stock stuff. I'm lucky I had some spare parts, cause one of the washers from the TNA box that's designed to orient a needle bearing was practically destroyed. I happened to have one from the diesel 010 I tore apart last year, so $$$ dealer part averted . It's important to note that there were some significant changes to the internals over the years (I'm learning this as I go, lol), so a 'parts' box should be near to the same year as the box that's being built. VW loved to alternate between thrust washers and needle bearings, depending on year. 

The pic of the box I put up above, that's mounted in a car, is a Pizzo brothers box too . Note the lack of cooler ports. Apparently the old school guys never bothered to tap the case if they weren't using a case with ports already in it. Interesting stuff.


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## sys3175 (Jan 26, 2004)

B4S said:


> Got the response already!
> It would be $475 and I have to ship them my VB. He says it's a three-day turnaround, which is pretty good IMO. I was quoted around $500 from transaxle engineering, no core required, so it seems the pricing is fair. I'll probably give IPT a try, he also said that at the power levels I'm going to be running (150whp or so, in the future), no other mods are needed to the box.
> 
> I'm starting to get really stoked...


 I know I'm responding to an older post, but IPT are good people. They rebuilt my 01m and it's been great since.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yeah, I've dealt with IPT in the past, I like them too. The issue was that one dude at IPT said "sure, we can build you a full manual VB", and when I called back to get the ball rolling...another dude said "Huh, I don't think we can do that". Their 'firmer' shifting VB was the same price as the Transaxle engineering's full reverse manual VB...so I went with that instead.


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## sys3175 (Jan 26, 2004)

B4S said:


> Yeah, I've dealt with IPT in the past, I like them too. The issue was that one dude at IPT said "sure, we can build you a full manual VB", and when I called back to get the ball rolling...another dude said "Huh, I don't think we can do that". Their 'firmer' shifting VB was the same price as the Transaxle engineering's full reverse manual VB...so I went with that instead.


 Yeah what transaxle did is pretty damned amazing. IPT does suffer from the he said he said syndrome.. I alleviated that by only speaking to John.. well.. actually there are two johns.. lol. Hope everything works out.. I only drove an 010 one time, and the experience was so bad that I almost didn't buy my auto 2001 1.8t due to it  Course, that was a '78 and was originally a manual swapped to an auto by someone who apparently figured the answer to any problem is a bigger hammer.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Lol, I've subscribed to that philosophy at times .

The box is back together, and I think I can get away with using the starter even though there is a busted ear on it. It uses three bolts, and like the saying goes..."two out of three ain't bad!" 

This means that I can technically start the tranny swap, even though I don't have a shifter sorted out yet. I'm trying to track down a stock Mk1 shifter (yeah...easy...), since I don't think I'll be able to find a long enough cable for the B&M I'd like to use. It's their basic model, and uses a different cable than the ratchet shifters .

Fingers crossed this actually works...


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

So, even though I know the futility of swapping out a transmission in a Mk1 without taking the engine out...I'm doing it anyway. Axles are disconnected, shifter linkage is out, clutch cable is loose, and as soon as I get a support bar for the engine, I'll drop the box out the bottom with the engine hoist.

This is sheer insanity, lol.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

i hope it chirps 3rd!!11!11!

lol, JK


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

B4S said:


> So, even though I know the futility of swapping out a transmission in a Mk1 without taking the engine out...I'm doing it anyway.





i thought thats how you do it?

i got my drag rabbit down to just about 3 hrs start to finish to drop out the 02A and change the clutch, and put it all back together again and fire it up. this was by myself, on my back, on the ground. hand tools only.

this may not seem like much to some, but with my setup you had to disassemble the axles to pull them as they were like DSS level 5's..... a spline plug instead of an inner open faced CV.

piece of cake. and i even made my own support bar for this job. it helps.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I usually drop the whole engine, since it's not much harder...and it makes putting the tranny back on a LOT easier. The auto is going to be interesting, since I've got to bolt the converter to the flexplate with the box installed on the engine. As well, gotta be careful not to tilt the converter off of the pinion shaft, or I'll end up with a huge mess, lol.

I really hate working on my back, on the ground, so I guess that's my reasoning. Not to mention that the 010 weighs a LOT more than the typical VW 5 spd box...so it could get a little heavy on the ribcage :laugh: .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Spent a bit of money this morning before work. There's an auto parts place near my local Princess Auto (Canada's version of Harbour Freight), and they're stocked to the gills with performance stuff for muscle cars. Got myself a DEI starter blanket (to help with heatsoak) for cheap, and then went across the street to Princess and grabbed a battery isolator solenoid (otherwise known as a Ford starter relay) so that I can run 8ga wire to the starter, directly off the battery. My first 010 setup suffered from the 'heat soaked starter solenoid' syndrome, and the factory fix is a weeny 30amp relay with 14ga wire.

I've got what I need to support the engine in the bay now, so I should be able to make more progress tonight.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

This is how the GM guys handle the Ford relay wiring. I'll probably duplicate this, 4ga wire FTW!


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## sys3175 (Jan 26, 2004)

Looks good man... hope this thing starts


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

You and me both .

Gearbox is in, just need to bolt up the axles, get some bolts for the torque converter, and start fabbing the shifter mount...and I'll be ready to fire it up! I'm a little bit stressed to be honest, the first startup on any project is always rough on my nerves, but this one is a bit different. I have no idea what will happen when I turn the key. Will it lurch forward? Are the clearances too tight/loose? Will it shift?
:banghead:


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

will you take vids please?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Will do!


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> Will do!



i wanna see how it drives before I decide if I am keeping my 010 or not.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Next time someone says "I'm going to swap my 010 with the engine in", smack them . Getting everything lined up is a HUGE pain in the arse. In retrospect, it would have been better to drain the converter, bolt it to the flexplate on the engine, and slide the box on. Instead, I bolted on the FP, slid the converter into the tranny, and moved it as a unit. I _think_ the pilot on the converter is sunk into the crank, because everything is flush and nice...but time will tell.

Getting the starter on is going to be interesting too, I might have to install it before I bolt up the passenger side axle. It's a tight squeeze to get it in there.


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

if i do it, mine will be a cradle in the back, mid engine. the whole deal will drop down easily


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

Aaron what will you be running your transmission in? your Audi?


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## sys3175 (Jan 26, 2004)

Just take it slow  I think you've double checked just about everything you can and it sounds like you've got it all right. Good luck!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm going to try my damnedest to get those starter and converter bolts today, I need to turn the key and see what happens. I can't take the anticipation anymore, lol.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> I'm going to try my damnedest to get those starter and converter bolts today, I need to turn the key and see what happens. I can't take the anticipation anymore, lol.




set the front end in the air with stands, just to make sure the wheels are off the ground. :thumbup:


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

A2TDI said:


> Aaron what will you be running your transmission in? your Audi?


nah. mid engine RWD in the rabbit.

the next logical step in the Audi is a dog-box.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ya, definitely. It's still up on stands from the install, so I'll just leave it there for now. I have to fab up the shifter mount, so I need access to the underside anyway.

Today is going to be loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong.


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

and when you do, make sure the control arms are supporting it, so there is no droop on the suspension putting the cv's in any weird binds.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

For the moment, I'll be firing it up with the axles disconnected...just in case.
Plus...I'm too anxious to wait until after I connect them :laugh: .

[edit] Crap...just remembered that the box is dry as a bone. I have some Royal Purple MaxGear for the diff, but no ATF. I don't want to skimp on the fluids, so my budget might be pooched for the moment. We've got a trip coming up soon, and the wife will murder me if I'm caught spending money on 'unnecessary' items. I might have to go with some plain jane Type-F if I want to fire it up sooner than later.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

oh noez!  i hate when that happens


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Been reading...which is always a bad thing.
When all the bolts for the transmission are tight, the converter is butted up tight against the FP, no movement at all. I'm not 100% sure right now, because my bentley is at home, but I'm thinking there is supposed to be a bit of clearance there to keep the TC from scrunching the seal at the pinion. I've got the OE crank spacer/washer installed, it's 1.2mm thick...and I think it's got to come out    .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yep...I've accepted the fact that it's got to come out, sigh. At least I've done it once, so I know how to get it back in quicker than the first time...but it still sucks. I'll double check everything tonight before taking it all back out, but I'm not optimistic .

Everyone ignore this thread, the 010 is lame, stick with the manual boxes .


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> Everyone ignore this thread, the 010 is lame, stick with the manual boxes .


 if this is fer realz, i guess you are getting my trans!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Just frustrated, lol.

If I get started when I get home, I should be able to get it back in by 9pm or so. It's a heavy pig of a box, makes it a bit awkward to muscle in and out.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

So you know what they say...third time's the charm.

Yep...had to do the install twice tonight. Got everything off, figured why not take some emery paper to the converter pilot and the crank snout, that'll probably fix it. This train of thought was brought about by the Bentley manual stating that the clearance between the flexplate and block should be 31mm, and if it's less than that, then ADD a spacer. Obviously the clearances for my setup are less than that (due to the MUCH tighter tolerances in the box itself), but for some reason I thought that it will be fine when I de-rust it all.

Lies.

Took it all back apart, took out the shim, bolted it all back up, and WE HAVE FREE PLAY! So I'm back to just needing some bolts for the converter, mount up the starter, fill it with ATF and gear oil, cross the fingers and turn the key. I'm going to take a few days off, lol.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

:beer:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ouch...just found out that I'll need around 6 qts of AT[email protected]*!)%)@(*)#%(*()*!! 

Who started this stupid 010 stuff anyway?

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO .

...I sure hope this project (that I've now nicknamed "Fingers Crossed", even wrote it on the flexplate in paint pen) pans out, otherwise I'm going to be out a lot more $ than I figured originally :laugh: .


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

:laugh:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got a loan of ATF from a buddy's shop (thanks Dan!), so the key will get turned this weekend .


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## sys3175 (Jan 26, 2004)

I remember when I did my GM and the bentley said "5 qts ATF" I put 5 qt's in and wasn't even showing on the dip stick.. later turns out it holds 8.. lol Good thing I had bought an extra just in case.. only needed another 2.. lol


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, I've got 6, and the converter is still about half full I think. I can afford to buy a qt or two if need be .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, just got back from an unexpected weekend away. Went for one day, stayed for two, lol. It's cold and damp in the garage, so I'm taking the day off. I still have to find the proper length bolts for the converter anyway, all the stuff I have is too long, and there isn't a huge amount of room for washers to take up the slack. Sorry folks .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ok, so I got restless and did a bit of work. I put in the gear oil, and then started adding ATF. I only added three qts, cause the converter is empty right now. Once the engine is idling, the converter will fill up and I can add the rest of the ATF.

Rotten surprise of the day: completely forgot that the converter bolts are a special type. M8 thread, but with a 10mm head so the socket can fit into the flexplate. Looks like I've got to make an order at the dealer, sigh. I considered using allen head bolts, but there's not much room to tighten them down. I just hope they don't loose my order again this time, lol.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

I think you'd find they're very high grade as well.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yeah, I've got one here and the grade is quite high IIRC. I couldn't find the other two .


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I email IPT and they seemed like they would rather build me a transmission then sell me parts..They did say they offer a higher stall then factory...by that he means only 4200 rpm  I was hoping for 5000 rpm


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, it's a start. Stall speed can vary by quite a few hundred RPM, depending on load, displacement, etc...so 4200 would still be quite decent. I'd expect you could spool up quite well by using the usual 'tricks' while you're on the stall. Anti-lag-style timing mods, two step, nitrous, etc. 

As well, if it's 4200 when new, it'll definitely loosen up as it's broken in.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I wish IPT would just give me straight answers...grr


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I did some calling around for torque converters because IPT want almost 700 dollars for one plus shipping and what not and came across a guy in toronto that will rebuild and re stall the torque converter for 300 - 400 dollars. 

contact info for the torque converters: 

1 416 289 4508 

ask for John


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

Made some clean good passes with our 010 tonight.  (the one Mr. Tickles put together)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5067852-Heading-back-to-the-track


(^^ this thread should be updated by the end of the day with times and more chatter)


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Sweet!  
I'm assuming this is on the stock turbine shaft? Or is it an upgraded one? This REALLY makes me want to get my isht together soon so I can play again .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got a stock shifter last night, I'll use it until I figure out what the best non-ratcheting version is for my needs. The shifter cable is seized up tight, but I think the B&M Unimatic cable will work perfectly, after a few modifications to the cable mount (at the shifter). Both the stock cable and the B&M one mount with a peg/c-clip, the B&M cable has a larger eyelet though. I'll probably weld the hole over and drill it out for the VW shifter. If I get ambitious, I'll mount up the starter tonight too, so that I can start re-wiring the circuit.


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

Now you know why I've been poking you along to go with the 010. 

oh yeah the car is also on SDS. I know how much you love that system.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I happen to have an oldschool EM-3 in a box, ready to go...just in case . 

Accomplished tonight: shifter in, shifter base modded to use readily available B&M shifter cables (the unimatic fits 100% perfectly if you move the cable mount at the shifter about 1/4" back), and shifts smooth as silk. Starter is in, and I NEVER WANT TO DO THAT JOB WITH THE ENGINE IN THE CAR EVER AGAIN. I shudder to think what it would be like to do if I was doing it in a MkII. As it was, I'm glad the axles weren't attached, because there's zero chance of the starter going in easily with them on. 

When I do the boosted motor, I'm making 100% sure that I install a brand new starter on it before I put it in the car.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

it's a little late to mention this, but seeing as exhaust heat is the #1 enemy of these starters, wrapping the motor and solenoid in header wrap seems to greatly extend longevity and thusly, delaying the nightmarish replacement process. 

I've also found replacing the upper, hard-to-reach bolt with a stud and nut quite a bit easier, too.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

You've read my mind . I covered the starter in a DEI heat sleeve, and installed the factory heat shield as well. That stud/bolt trick is DEFINITELY the way I'm going on my boosted motor, thanks for the tip! The worst part was trying to hold the starter up while threading the first bolt in  .


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

another option is to drill to lower bold hole all the way through and tapping thread in the startmotor housing so you can put a long bold in from the drivers side. 
(You only have to flatten the housing where the head of the bolt is going to rest on)


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Awesome idea! I'm so doing that when it all comes out again . Thanks! 

Well...it's alive! I fired it up tonight, and after a few minutes of stress, it burst into life (never try to start a car in third gear, lol). After shutting it down, shifting into park, it fired up fast as can be. I shifted into reverse, and the CVs were going backwards...so I guess I didn't mess it up too badly . Fingers crossed, anyway. 

This weekend it should be back down on the ground, and I should have a rolling/shifting vid to post...before it gets put away for the winter .


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It rolls forwards and backwards . 

Have to siphon out the excess ATF (overfilled it), and secure the shifter cable at the tranny, but I'll be test driving it tomorrow. Shifting into reverse is like being rear-ended by a bus, lol. It's definitely a firm shift, but there are a few things that might influence that. Shifting into 1st is nice and smooth at idle speed, so I can live with the harsh reverse if need be. To say I'm stoked is an understatement


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> It rolls forwards and backwards .
> 
> Have to siphon out the excess ATF (overfilled it), and secure the shifter cable at the tranny, but I'll be test driving it tomorrow. Shifting into reverse is like being rear-ended by a bus, lol. It's definitely a firm shift, but there are a few things that might influence that. Shifting into 1st is nice and smooth at idle speed, so I can live with the harsh reverse if need be. To say I'm stoked is an understatement


 eace: sounds like it will be fun. :thumbup:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, the first drive was fun, it shifted exactly like it was supposed to! Absolutely hilarious! 

The second drive ended up with me reversing the car back into the garage, because I've only got reverse gear, lol. The box has to come out again, something is busted in the forward drum and I've got no forward gears now. I'll be grabbing a spare 010 from a buddy (hopefully) for parts next week, but I don't know if I'll get to it before spring...it's getting really cold in the garage now. I say this, but usually end up doing the opposite once my obsessive compulsive behaviour kicks in umpkin: . 

It worked though, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally well .


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

you broke it already lol. how fast are the shifts?


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

BOOYAA!!!!!

keep it up


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

The shifts were instantaneous . 

I suspect the problem is the spring in the forward drum, or it's related to the 'mods' I made to get the extra clutch in there. I'm seriously not concerned, mainly because I know it's fixable...and I got that wicked first test drive in before it kicked it . It could be something as simple as a busted circlip, there's basically nothing complicated in these boxes. I've still got reverse, so I know it's connected to the front drum. 

Spare box tomorrow too, I suspect it's a MkII box as well, so it'll have all the parts I need in it. 

It's busted, but I'm so friggin stoked right now . 

{edit} This time, the engine is coming out, lol. No more mucking about with straps and crap like that.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

does it chirp second or third?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It didn't this time, but I really didn't try a full throttle run. It's also raining/snowing...so the roads are too slick to chirp.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> It didn't this time, but I really didn't try a full throttle run. It's also raining/snowing...so the roads are too slick to chirp.


 
snow? its 60* here.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

The joys of living in Canadia man . 
It's the beginning of our winter, so while it doesn't stay for long right now (ground isn't frozen), it's starting to snow already . It's also damp as fook, so it's kinda unpleasant in the garage right now. 

Next weekend I'll see if I can round up some help and get the box out. **** jobs are always more fun with a few beers...I mean, colas .


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

that sucks it broke already...you have me a bit worried...if it breaks that easy with 110 whp what will happen with 340?


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

one thing i've learned working on aircraft, (where quality of parts is supposed to be second to none), is that just because a new part is new, doesn't guarantee it's good. It could very well be the possibilities you describe, but don't discount the valvebody. Completely ignoring the issues arising from cheap labor most shops are forced to hire, the smallest fleck of debris can jam a shift valve. Not to be a pessimist, just suggesting don't dismiss the VB as a potential cuplrit because it's new. Good luck! :thumbup:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Everything is coming out next weekend, so I'll give it a thorough going-over soon. I 'recycled' a lot of parts in my build, so I'm not worried about the box itself being less-than-strong. It's seriously going to be something minute. I'm letting the car settle right now, and will go out and try it again later. When the shifting issue arose, the ATF was waaaaaaaay below level (the first test drive had a too-high level), maybe it sucked air, who knows. Either way, I'm now way more confident in my abilities to rebuild one of these suckers, so it shouldn't be long before it's back up and running. 

Rabbit6: Yeah, I'll be cleaning out the VB for sure. My work area is less than clean, so no variable will be left unturned.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

A2TDI said:


> that sucks it broke already...you have me a bit worried...if it breaks that easy with 110 whp what will happen with 340?


 I don't think of it as 'broken', just 'not currently working properly' . 
This is a teething pain, it's the first box I've ever built, so perhaps I overlooked something. Maybe my 'this should work' philosophy needs a bit of tweaking.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

thx rabbit6


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yep, just went out to check the car...it didn't fix itself :laugh:. It rocks back and forth slightly when I rev it up in 1/2/3...but no forward motion. It's not engaging the drum at all. 

Ah cars...without them, I'd be so bored umpkin:.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> Yep, just went out to check the car...it didn't fix itself :laugh:. It rocks back and forth slightly when I rev it up in 1/2/3...but no forward motion. It's not engaging the drum at all.
> 
> Ah cars...without them, I'd be so bored umpkin:.


 
what do you suppose the problem might be?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

After my first test drive, I drained a half qt of ATF out with a vacuum pump, since the level was too high. The fluid seemed murky, but bright red. I've been reading that a dead forward drum could be due to fried clutches, and the murkiness is clutch material. This is likely, as I'm using stock clutches (and used ones at that  ). Also, if I blew out a seal on the forward drum (again, very likely), there would be a huge pressure drop that resulted in no forward motion. I'll drop the pan before I pull the engine out and see if there are any telltale bits of metal in there that would indicate something major has gone boom. I'm thinking it's going to be a simple fix, and I bet it's due to the age of the box itself. That'll teach me to think a quick 'refresh' is as good as a full rebuild :laugh: . 

If it's just clutches or a seal, life is good. It could also be the planetary gears, but I don't hear any crunching or whining at all, so I'm leaning away from that.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

hopefully its just clutches, was it slipping at all?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I wasn't paying attention, to be honest, lol. It did feel a bit slippy between gears (after engagement), but I put it up to the RPM drop and my not-quite-WOT test drive. 

The factory tolerances are super loose, and I've tightened them up quite a bit, so I bet the old clutches couldn't take the excess drag, if they're fried. If I need clutches, I'm definitely calling Jeff at transaxle engineering again, he's got the good raybestos ones in stock.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ah...the piston at the bottom of the forward drum that has it's seals vulcanized to it. I bet that piston needs to be replaced. 

Definitely not worried.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

that might be the problem


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

I like how everyone is more concerned about it than the guy who broke it. :laugh: Just goes to show you are already thinking ahead and not being hung up on this little stumble. :thumbup:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm a project whore, used to this sort of bump in the road, lol. 

There are no impossibles, only obstacles .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hmm, the extra clutches in the forward drum might not be the best idea (although certainly not a bad one). It's 'always on', in any forward gear, so there is not much need to have insane amounts of clamping force, since it's never subjected to the 'on/off' motion like the direct drum. Perhaps I'll go back to the stock 4 clutch arrangement in that drum, depending on what I find when I open it up.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Awesome...and now it's a friggin blizzard. :banghead:


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

well, we have faith you will Pioneer this for us. then the world (or just the 7-8 of us interested in this route) will beat a path to your door LOL.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm flattered . 

I can't believe how much snow has accumulated, it's easily 2-3 inches. The ground hasn't frozen yet, so hopefully it won't stay and I can get it back up and running in a week or two. This time I'll hopefully get more than one wicked test drive :laugh: . That first drive down the road was awesome.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

it honestly sounds like the torque converter just filled up and it ran low on fluid. when you put the extra clutches in did you put the piston on the lathe to turn it down some for extra clearance? If not that would explain fried clutches..But your problem does seem like it was low on fluid alot of times it will be overfull until you drive it then all the fluid gets throgh every passage.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I didn't have to turn the piston down, it's not quite the same as a TH350/400 inside. The piston itself is covered with rubber, the seal is part of the piston, so it's not possible to turn it down any. The factory clearances are quite loose (top steel to circlip), and the dudes at transaxle engineering say to tighten them up by a bit. Adding the extra clutch/steel did that quite nicely. The first drive I took, it sucked a lot of fluid into the converter, leaving it below the min mark. I added fluid and discovered the lack of forward motion. I've let it sit for a day or two, hoping that the excess will drain back. I'll give it a shot again in a couple days and see if anything happens. Reverse works great though, and still slams into gear (although that's a too-high-idle issue, when I lower the idle, it's far less harsh), so I'm still thinking it was something I did to the forward drum. It doesn't even load up when I shift into any of the drive gears, vs. shifting into reverse, so I think pressure is bleeding off (blown piston seal) in that drum. 

Depending on what I find, I may just stick with the stock 4-clutch forward drum. I don't know if the issue was caused by my mods, but if it was, I'll just tighten up the stocker and call it a day. 

Spare TNA box in the house today too, thanks to a friend parting out his cabby project .


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

well today I spoke with Jeff at transaxle engineering and he was a great help! Much easier to speak with rather then IPT. I was kind of leary about this transmission holding up to big power but he changed my mind.... http://transaxleengineering.com/Pages/Transaxle_Engineering_Video.html
That video is of his personal sand rail with a LS1 small block chevy coupled to a 010! Also Jeff's prices are much cheaper and he has been putting together these 010's for 33 years! So im pretty sure im going to order everything I need soon but im looking for some sort of a group buy on turbine shafts. He was saying he can get one made for 800 bucks or two made for 1200..and im sure the price gets cheaper with more demand. So is any one else interested?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm definitely interested, but I can't swing it until spring . I've got too much to do in the way of daily-prepping and winterizing of the fleet. It sucks, but it's gotta be done if I don't want to end up divorced, lol.

Slight update:
went out to see if it was still broken...yep, still is. There is some forward motion when I rev it up, but it doesn't last. Reverse is still stellar though . I'm really excited to see what broke, I really think it's clutch related now.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Drained the ATF tonight, it's murky and a bit glittery, but not that bad. There is a bit of material in the pan, and I found some clumps of fibrous material (clutch) in the screen, but nothing major. Probably just the front drum complaining about the tight clearances. I'm counting down the days until I can tear that bitch apart and see what I need to fix .

It's spooky how excited I am. I guess I've been more bored with the same-old-same-old VW crap than I figured.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

this thread = http://*************.net/obscene-smiley-1024.gif :laugh:


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

A2TDI said:


> well today I spoke with Jeff at transaxle engineering ....So im pretty sure im going to order everything I need soon but im looking for some sort of a group buy on turbine shafts. He was saying he can get one made for 800 bucks or two made for 1200..and im sure the price gets cheaper with more demand. So is any one else interested?


Count me in.:thumbup:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Engine/tranny is out .


















Now I just have to find some time to get the box apart. Tomorrow is booked, and I'm too fried from getting it out (and being sick for the past two weeks) to keep going at it. Soon though, soon .


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

B4S said:


> Engine/tranny is out .


interesting method to drop the motor LOL..... hadnt thought of that.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I dropped the motor onto a rolling pallet, so I needed to get the car a lot higher than usual. I think I'll keep doing it this way from now on, made it a LOT easier than trying to drag the engine/tranny out on it's own.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

genius! :thumbup:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Bumping this up to force myself to take the tranny apart tonight. I'm excited to see what I find, hopefully I've got enough parts to effect the repairs. If not, looks like I'll be using my wholesale discount code at the local dealership :laugh:


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I'm excited to see what has failed and I am also going to be ordering a bunch of the performance parts within the next couple weeks including the 300m input shaft. I went down to MIR to watch the import vs domestic shootout this weekend and Man automatics are the way to go!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

The verdict is....





















The piston seal in the front drum, like I thought .










Everything else is fine, amazingly. The stock clutches are holding fine, no unusual wear and tear, although there are a couple of odd marks on the pump drive shaft. I'm not too concerned, I've got a couple spare shafts if need be. I'll be ordering a new piston tomorrow...fingers crossed it's not ridiculously expensive. The lesson learned here is replace the old crap that's probably dried out :laugh:.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Out of curiosity, I plugged the part number for the piston (010 323 217 A) into Google, and it popped up a lot...on Porsche sites. It's still available, and around $60 .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It'll be in by thursday, sweet. $100ish CAD, so not bad at all IMO.
When the parts guy found out what it was, he was stoked cause he's contemplating repairing the 010 in his 91 and has no idea how to do it. We had a nice little chat about the 010, a great way to start the morning IMO :laugh:.

Should be starting to re-install the box by sat :thumbup:.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

B4S said:


> The verdict is... B4S is the Michelin Man!! :laugh:


glad the failure wasn't anything major.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

lol, I hate getting my hands dirty, what can I say :laugh:.

Oh man I'm stoked, I can't wait to get it all back together and in the car. It'll be a new experience for me, having a car stored that DOESN'T require massive amounts of work come spring.


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

so the torque converter is just the connection from motor to trans, right?


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

newto20v said:


> so the torque converter is just the connection from motor to trans, right?



 not trying to be a dick, but serious question?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

newto20v said:


> so the torque converter is just the connection from motor to trans, right?


It's basically a fluid clutch, in the simplest sense. It also has the side effect of amplifying the torque at low RPMs (although I'm not really 'up' on the science behind it...just know it works). It's common to see a dyno plot for an automatic start with unbelievable torque numbers and taper off to normal levels (if the dyno run is started below the stall speed of the converter). Another way of looking at it would be to equate it's function to that of a centrifugal clutch on a go-kart. Spin the engine to a certain RPM and the car will start to move. Add a bit more RPM and the car picks up faster. ATF is an incompressible fluid, so once it takes up the slack, the converter transfers all the power from the engine to the transmission.

Later cars will have a lockup function that physically locks the turbine shaft/input shaft to the crank, taking the converter out of the equation. This results in lower cruising speeds, and no 'stall' anymore. 

Hopefully I've gotten it right, I'm sure I'll be embarrassingly corrected if I haven't .


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

LA7VJetta said:


> not trying to be a dick, but serious question?


yes, serious question.

have you ever seen me post non serious questions??? REALLY?

this is leading up to another thought process.....

a friends dad used to drag a Benz, with i believe domestic motor/auto trans. but he said he used a clutch instead of a TC.

the way i see it, if the TC is the same crank to input shaft link, then why not run a clutch to get it going and then it needs no help shifting?

the reason we are looking at this is because the VW transverse manual trans's are POS for shifting high rpm's, and auto takes care of that.

i personally do not know much about auto trans, YET. but i will get down n dirty with them very soon. if i dont get a bellhousing or adapter made to just run a 'glide or 350 on a 4cyl that is  because shifting is something that i want to take out of the equation on one of my drag chassis..... well, both. my AWD is getting a dog-box. no shifting there.

i have a small understanding of the Lock-up stuff, i put one in a 700R4 for my TPI'd 4x4 SWB.... thats fun, too.

but auto, yeah i can let my wife run it


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I can see how the clutch idea would work, but it would require some serious fab work. The ATF pump is at the far end of the case, and is driven by the converter. The turbine shaft is as well, although I'm sure something could be done for that. I guess it depends on whether or not the converter is an integral part of the fluid circuit. If it were possible to find a fluid diagram, that would certainly help planning something like this.

OT: A friend is currently building a 69 valiant with his 800whp 4g63T under the hood, the TH350 adapter was 300 USD, INCLUDING starter...and the box itself is under 2000 USD. Some days I think I'm in the wrong game :banghead:.


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

where'd he get the adapter?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

This crazy old guy in the states .
A whole forum dedicated to RWD 4G63T swaps...interesting info there.

http://www.projectzerog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1000


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

the torque converter helps support the turbine shafts etc..the turbine shaft not having a bearing to hold it self up wouldnt work with a clutch on the end of it and yes the torque converter is part of the fluid flow circuit. The shock of a clutch on the automatic if you somehow got it to work i think would make things explode. The greatest thing about the torque converter is that it is a torque multiplier, and for drag racing if you set your converter stall speed at your engines peak torque it can multiply your engines torque up to 2.5 times initially. hope that helps..


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...fai=CM2600O3bTLvSO6rMywTQtKyrCwAAAKoEBU_QyHtL


cool idea.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

That's damn cool.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

"There were a variety of clutched transmissions going from the 50's back that had planetary transmissions or self shifting mechanisms of one type or another but the Cltuchflite you are referring to was basically a development by B&M in the 60's. It was a 727 that had the bellhousing sawn off and and clutch installed in place of the torque converter. There was a spider assembly to drive the transmission pump. The idea was that you could leave as hard as a stick car and gain the consistency and speed of an automatic.
I had one in a 69 Super Bee many many years ago and it seemed wierd at first but you quickly got used to it.
*Advances in torque converter design made them largely obsolete for anything but nostalgia* purposes. They occasionally appear at swap meets or in MCG. B&M stopped making kits for them long ago but a competent machine shop could make one for you. There was another trans shop that was making them not so very long ago but the name escapes me now (JW??). I still have the manual from B&M here someplace but your *money is better spent on a quality torque converter*."


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, the new piston/seal is in. A little tough, but only took a couple of minutes. The fresh rubber is very stiff, you've got to spin the piston while pushing it down. Piece of cake.

The comedy of errors however, is still underway . I broke the two dynamic seals at the base of the turbine shaft so had to take it all apart again to get the metal out. Then on a spare shaft, I broke one of the two seals :banghead:. I've ordered these in the past (and cleverly threw out two of them, NIB) and they weren't cheap, so I'm really pissed at myself right now. I've got an EQ box (rabbit) here that I've been taking diff parts from, but I really didn't want to start stealing internals unless I had to. Right now I've got two turbine shafts with broken seals, so they aren't even any good to me unless I replace the busted bits...sigh. Guess I'll be placing another order today .

Anyone know if the turbine shaft really needs those seals, lol.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Awesome...they've gone up in price :banghead: .

Coming from Ft. Worth too, so another week or so to wait.

There are times I really hate this transmission, lol.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I on the other hand have a new love for them....Transaxle engineering has a 1600 hp engine coupled to one


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Sweet .
I've said I won't take anything apart, but I know in my obsessive compulsive brain that I'll be pulling a turbine shaft from the EQ box tomorrow. I hate my car .

I've figured out why I've busted so many seals though. It's the fresh piston in the forward drum. It's VERY tight, so once the turbine shaft goes through, the seals expand and get caught on the lip of the piston when you try to pull the shaft back out. Now I feel more like an idiot, didn't even consider that last night .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Essentially, I describe myself as an idiot with a few lucky streaks. I've got to stop 'diagnosing' stuff while I'm at the office, and not working on my car. The piston has nothing to do with the turbine shaft, it doesn't go far enough into the case to even come close to the piston. I was playing around and discovered the best way to get the to case halves together and install the turbine shaft at the same time. The tougest part of assembling the case halves is to align the pinion shaft with the reverse/parking lock. They're both splined, so put the transaxle in park (feel kinda dumb about just figuring this out now), makes it easier to get everything to slip together. If you remove the converter pinion, exposing the transfer gear, you can align the splined shaft, and slip the turbine shaft into the box at the same time. 

I've already pulled out a spare turbine shaft and reassembled the good box, lol. Got off work early today .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Engine's back in, just have to connect the axles and suchlike. I'll be recording the FIRST test drive this time, just in case.


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

It's been 20 min...either he is jumping with joy or beating the car with a lead pipe. :laugh:


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

wantacad said:


> It's been 20 min...either he is jumping with joy or beating the car with a lead pipe. :laugh:


:laugh:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I came inside once the engine was in, to prevent the lead-piping, lol. I'll get to the miscellaneous stuff tomorrow night, since winter is long overdue now and I don't know how much longer I'll have for test drives. It's been eerily warm since the blizzard we had weeks ago...


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It's done. Tomorrow I load it up with coolant and ATF, and go for ANOTHER test drive. 
This **** better work, lol .


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

fingers crossed!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

A2TDI said:


> well today I spoke with Jeff at transaxle engineering ....So im pretty sure im going to order everything I need soon but im looking for some sort of a group buy on turbine shafts. He was saying he can get one made for 800 bucks or two made for 1200..and im sure the price gets cheaper with more demand. So is any one else interested?





Rabbit6 said:


> Count me in.:thumbup:


Yeah, me too. I have a hankering to build a box up over the winter, and have the $$ put aside for the 300m turbine shaft now .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hmm, I think I've figured out a way to help the 2-3 shift on a 'stock' box. The dodge guys have the same design direct drum as we do, but their piston is held down by a single spring under a seat, whereas ours is many little springs. They 'shorten' their spring by clamping it down and heating it in a BBQ. I wonder if removing every second spring would help the 2-3 shift hit harder? I wish I had a stock box to try it out on, lol.

Another curious thing. Some of the 010 forward drums have the same spring-ring setup as the direct drum. I noticed the other night that the diesel box I took apart was done that way as opposed to the regular spring/circlip method. I wonder why. The forward drum is an 'always-on' one, so there's no on/off motion like in the direct drum. Hmm. Weird.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It engages 1st gear and rolls forward 
I got home too late to do any real work, but the band is set and the box is full of ATF. Tomorrow I'll fill it back up with coolant, and if it's not pouring rain I'll go for a drive. I'll set up the camera for that run, just in case, lol.

If anyone is wondering why I won't go if it's raining...well, I've already pushed this car a kilometer (2/3rds of a mile) in the pitch black of boonie darkness, and I have no hankering to do it in the rain too .


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

B4S said:


> If anyone is wondering why I won't go if it's raining...well, I've already pushed this car a kilometer (2/3rds of a mile) in the pitch black of boonie darkness, and I have no hankering to do it in the rain too .


hahahaha.....

so yeah.... hope its sorted out this time.


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

B4S said:


> If anyone is wondering why I won't go if it's raining...well, I've already pushed this car a kilometer (2/3rds of a mile) in the pitch black of boonie darkness, and I have no hankering to do it in the rain too .


wife, 2nd car, tow rope. 




granted you might end up living in the rabbit after that but hey, one step at a time.:laugh:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I think it will be, I honestly think the failure was due to the 20 year old seal. It suddenly had to deal with a huge pressure jump from stock, so it went boom. The fresh piston was a really tight squeeze, so I doubt it's going to give out now. Nobody else is having this problem, and Jeff at Transaxle never mentioned a weakness there, so I think it'll be cool now.

The last pushing episode was actually a great learning experience. I now know that I can go nearly a mile on the fuel in the float bowls before the car stops running. Always make sure you don't have a clogged fuel filter...:laugh:

wantacad: I actually ended up getting a lift back to town. A brave soul decided to pick up a guy covered in grease, wearing coveralls, and pushing a Rabbit down a dark country road. Got the wife, the tow rope my father-in-law gifted to me (he must have figured a VW guy would need it, lol), and my Saturn. I don't think she'd be so excited to do that again though, she hasn't let me live it down yet, lol


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

Just to offer a different perspective, I have a built 010 in which we ran 350-ish hp (down from low 500-ish hp) and managed mid 11's on the dragstrip. We really only built the box once, installed it (with the engine in, by the way) and have had no real issues other than the obvious development sort like snapped input shaft (replaced with a heat-treated stock unit) and upgraded TC (IPT modified stock unit).

We're working on a LSD for next season but beyond that the only other possible upgrade will be the 300M input shaft.

We did some testing with "shifting under boost" and it seems to be holding up. That may change as we bring more boost back into the system.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm following your thread in the motorsports forum, it's a huge inspiration . I've found a company to do some heat treating, but will be getting in on the 300m turbine shaft buy. 

I just got back from a drive around the block, it was too dark to film though. I'm going to try again on friday (won't get home before dark tomorrow). It was awesome! The 1-2 shift feels hard now, unlike the first time, which was on the weakened piston/seal. It's crazy, I love it . I'm still on my 175/50 13s, so it scoots quite well, but is revving reeeeeeeeeally high, even at in-town speeds. Engine braking is still functional, although it's not needed. Step on off the gas, and it's just like any old automatic out there. Just have to be sure to shift into 1 before taking off, lol.

As far as differentials go, I've had a crazy notion about dodge neon ones. If you google the A413 dodge tranny, their diff looks a LOT like the VW one. I'm going to see if one of my dodge buddies has an auto diff kicking around for comparison's sake. I'm not expecting much, but it never hurts to look.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

Ok volks,
we have 3 buyers for the 300M turbine shafts it looks like the individual price drops around $100 for every additional order. 
Currently around $600-700 /unit based on the pricing of the last bunch he did. Current pricing to be verified, but similar for sure.
If we can get a couple more people in on this, $500 each should be doable. 
Anyone interested?
Please speak up soon.
Thanks!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

At LONG last...the video. I took the day off work, just for you guys . I'm a giver, what can I say, lol.

It's 5 min long, the mic in my GoPro is dead, so it's tough to hear anything but squawks and rattles, but shows the shifts nicely. Most of the video is me going around the block, so you can see how hard 2nd hits at low speeds. At the 3:40 mark, I give it a bit of WOT (carbs are not tuned for full throttle yet, kinda lean), and the 1-2 shift is smooooooooooth . 2-3 is always good, so no news there. The ATF level is kinda high, so I really should drain some out...but this was the last drive for the car until April .

Basically, I can't say enough good stuff about this transmission. It's going to be a looooooooooooooooong winter .


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

shifts precise on the WOT bit hmmmm??

sounds shot as you said.

now you are making me want to learn about auto trans even more LOL.

i have a few Audi 5k FWD auto's sourced. now to move on one of them and get it taken apart. :beer:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yep, there was no slippage on the WOT shifting at all. It was instantaneous, and completely direct :thumbup:. I'm also still using stock clutches, not the good stuff that TransaxleEngineering sells.

Seriously, with the 300m turbine shaft, this box will be a perfect option for high hp drag cars. Dcor has proved that :thumbup:.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, yesterday was a sad day. I got the second spot in my garage cleaned out for the daily over the winter. This necessitated piling a few things behind my Rabbit (including the snowblower, HIGH priority around here), so it's well and tightly packed in until April . My garage is uninsulated, so work won't be continuing until then either. Even though the same thing happens every year, it doesn't make it any easier. I'll be able to look at my car all winter...but won't be able to drive it. Sigh.

Maybe I'll see if I can find a TJ over the winter...then I could keep my 175/50 13s....


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

gives you time to kick back and compose the true writeup for this setup then....

:laugh:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Maybe I will, although I'd only be able to cover what I did...which might not be the best way of going about it . I'm sure there are a couple things that I did that might be frowned upon by the folks "in the know", but seem to work just fine for me. A good google search word is "A413", it's the code for the dodge stuff, and even though their boxes are slightly different (the pump is behind the converter, not at the end of the case, etc), they do some pretty ghetto things that seem to work out fine in the end . I like the turbo forums (turbododge.com, turbomopar.com), and the 1G Neon forums (they used an updated version of the A413, but still three speed/non-electronic) for tranny ideas. Their mods usually carry over almost exactly. The GM TH350/400 is similar again, but only for tips and tricks. That's pretty much where I got all the ideas I used to build this one.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

just watched the video now, looks like it works well. :thumbup:


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

yeah.... i am on turbododge also.... for when i was looking for info on the A404. and A413.

i spend a fair bit of time researching crap....


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hmm...probably ending up with a 76 Rocco that's been off the road for a loooooooooong time. Not sure what the owner is going to keep off of it, but it's a 16vT running SDS (although cannibalized over the years). I do have a second TNA code box looking for a home...

Anyone know of anything lighter than a stripped down 76 Rocco?


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> Hmm...probably ending up with a 76 Rocco that's been off the road for a loooooooooong time. Not sure what the owner is going to keep off of it, but it's a 16vT running SDS (although cannibalized over the years). I do have a second TNA code box looking for a home...
> 
> Anyone know of anything lighter than a stripped down 76 Rocco?



stripped down 76 Rabbit :thumbup:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Don't have one of those, lol. Mine's an 83 :laugh:.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> Don't have one of those, lol. Mine's an 83 :laugh:.




might be close :beer:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

In all seriousness though, if I strip any car, it will be the rocco. I love my Rabbit, and it's going to be with me for a long time. I know the rocco is the older car, and more 'classic', but it was built by the previous owner to be all-go, no show. It's painted semi-gloss black, and has a hard-as-nails look about it.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

:beer::thumbup:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

No turbine shaft for me...it's been a tumultuous (hey, I spelled it right first time! ) couple of days. End result = if I want to continue sleeping in the same bed as my wife (and living in the same house), the spending needs to stop. It's a no-go for me until spring I figure .

I tried my best, but she got the high ground on this one .


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## anotherguy (Dec 5, 2010)

This thread is awesome, I can't tell you how much I appreciate the information that you have posted here.
I am building a subaru powered vw notchback bracket car, I blew the stock 003 trans up during testing and am in the process of figuring out how to run a reliable vanagon box. You have obviously cut my time on research by a huge amount. Heavily considering the shaft buy if it is compatible with the vanagon box.
I'll be following this and will attempt to contribute when I can.
Thanks again for the info.

-Tony


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

You're welcome! The aircooled crowd pioneered this years back, but the internet wasn't around then, so there isn't much information about it out there. 

Keep us posted!


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

*300M INPUT SHAFT PRICING !!!!* 

Finally got pricing on the shafts. 
5-6 units = 490 each 
10-12 units =350 each. 

Me: 2 high price, poss 3 low price 
Jeff: 1 high price, poss 2 low price 
Chad: 1 high price 
vwtuner-nl: 1 high price 
======================= 
5 total 


5-6 weeks delivery time. 

anyone else? 


They modify the shaft's design slightly. the two piston rings are kept as they're necessary for fluid circuit reasons. However, the cutter used to make their grooves imparts much-needed radii to prevent failure. They also eliminate a ring groove at the torque converter end that isn't necessary. Apparently this design has proven highly durable as tested by applying V8 power through them.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I've so got to find a way in to this buy . 
How much time until you place the order? There's got to be a way .


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## 20bkombi (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi there every one, I've been following this post for a long time. I've used a vangon auto 
in my wifes type 3 wagon which i put a 13b turbo rotary in(306rwhp 13psi). I've done all the mods to the car and auto and seems you followed naturally the same path as i with the tranny. 
She hasn't broken a turbine shaft yet in the 1/8th (8.5 @91mph very slow 60ft 2.4 1800rpm stall:thumbdown but now i've been able to mod the converter for about 
3000 rpm with no trans brake and is probably the next thing to go. 

The box is a 76 case and diff (3.09 c/w) now has 5 clutches in DR and FWD drums, audi v/b modifided, 4 gear planetry set, drilled out oil entrys in dr drum with less return springs, moded the 2nd band servo, from 47psi line presure up to 175psi,the list goes on and on. 

I've opened the converter 6 times doing different mods, now it is time to go smaller in diameter. 

I alsow would be in for a 300m shaft (suit vangon) if you are ordering soon. 

This was with a stock box 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_rY5bN35rw 

This is my street bus 6.89 @ 102.7mph 1/8th 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngrv_KEAbNA&NR=1 

Keep the posts coming :thumbup:


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

:thumbup: nice!


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

20bkombi said:


> Hi there every one,
> 
> This is my street bus 6.89 @ 102.7mph 1/8th
> 
> ...


 Whew! I really hadn't been aware up to this point that I was physically capable of jizzing 18 seperate times in one minute!! I need a cigarette! :what: 

Gawd Dayam! 

The 300M group buy is for transverse engine front-drive transmissions. Transaxle engineering doesn't normally deal with front-drive, so we've had a custom order made for them. I'd be willing to bet that he has aircooled 300M shafts in stock. Maybe we could convince them to give you group buy pricing on one, even though it's not part of the group buy. I'll ask next time I call. 

Still waiting on confirmations to place the order. Hoping to get to the 10+ mark!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

20bkombi said:


> Hi there every one, I've been following this post for a long time. I've used a vangon auto
> in my wifes type 3 wagon which i put a 13b turbo rotary in(306rwhp 13psi). I've done all the mods to the car and auto and seems you followed naturally the same path as i with the tranny.
> She hasn't broken a turbine shaft yet in the 1/8th (8.5 @91mph very slow 60ft 2.4 1800rpm stall:thumbdown but now i've been able to mod the converter for about
> 3000 rpm with no trans brake and is probably the next thing to go.
> ...


 HA! I knew that removing some of the springs in the sprung direct drum would work . Thanks for the info! Most of the Golf/Jetta boxes seem to have the single-spring design in the DD, but the diesel seems to have the multi-sprung versions. 

Thanks a million for joining and posting! Any automatic info is good info! It's nice to know that there are more of us out there :thumbup:. 

Nice vids!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm going to publicly post that I'm in for the group buy again. This way, if I back out, I'll have to face the public shame that goes along with it . 

Chad +1


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

20bkombi said:


> Hi there every one, I've been following this post for a long time. I've used a vangon auto
> in my wifes type 3 wagon which i put a 13b turbo rotary in(306rwhp 13psi). I've done all the mods to the car and auto and seems you followed naturally the same path as i with the tranny.
> She hasn't broken a turbine shaft yet in the 1/8th (8.5 @91mph very slow 60ft 2.4 1800rpm stall:thumbdown but now i've been able to mod the converter for about
> 3000 rpm with no trans brake and is probably the next thing to go.
> ...



Nice dude. Aussies are few & far between on here!!!

Especially ones that are VW people & have an interest in VW autos! Too many narrow minded people out here I've found! If auto's can work in every other car, why can't they work in a VW when modded correctly I say!

Alittle off topic, but are you planning on heading down the VW event at Portland on Feb?

If my K-Jet turbo'd mk1 is still running, I'll be heading down too!


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## alexf4 (Dec 14, 2010)

woa this thread is amazing. one of the most informative threads i have found here and im glad its still alive 

I'm looking into a 1.8t swap into a MK1 cabriolet that has a 010 trans in it. I'm really not up to date on the auto trans terms but what all has to be done to have a rock solid 010 behind roughly 300hp max?

i check out transaxle engineering but i didn't see any 010 specific products so were are you guys getting this stuff?

oh and please explain to me what parts i need and what they do. i like to know how something works when i'm working on it. I know what a torque converter is and that this trans shifts via fluid buildup but other than that i know nothing.

thanks in advance,
alex


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

There should be a few videos on youtube of how a basic 3 spd auto works. You will probably spend a couple grand to rebuild and make the transmission strong. If your 1.8t is only going to be 300 hp the rest of its life you can stick in a 500 dollar full manual valve body and a 300 m turbine shaft along with a chromoly pump drive and you should be good to go assuming the transmission is in good shape. There is a group buy on the 300m turbine shaft that you will 100 percent need if your making that much power but act fast on the group buy. Your best bet is to call up transaxle engineering talk to jeff about what you have and he will have all the answers.. Good luck!


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## alexf4 (Dec 14, 2010)

count me in on the group buy if someone can for sure tell me what trans i have. its a 1991 VW MK1 cabriolet


im pretty sure that its the same as the mk1 golf

AFAIK the 010 is the only auto trans that was available then. also its the only 3 speed.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

The reason you can't find any 010 info on TE's site is because it's hiding in plain sight . The tail section of their 3-speed auto sandrail box is an 010 transaxle portion. The difference is the bellhousing/final drive they use/make. You've got to call them if you want info, they're old school.

If you plan on 300hp, you will need the 300m turbine shaft, the manual VB, and the chromoly pump drive, like mentioned above. Your gearbox should be a TN or TNA code 010, so essentially the same as the MkII box. It'll have more clutches in it than the stock EQ Mk1 box, so shouldn't need much in the way of beefing up. A FULL rebuild will make life easier though, I put my VB in a stock box and only got one ride out of it. Blew a very important seal inside and had to take it apart to fix it. 

Build it right, build it once .

Welcome aboard! For hydraulic 3-speed info, they're all similar in function. The dodge A413 and GM TH350/400 use the same principles, and are well documented. Take a peek at that stuff, and you'll be good to go.


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## alexf4 (Dec 14, 2010)

thanks for the info, its really appreciated!

is there a full rebuild kit available to replace the necessary parts. i don't have a huge problem with cash as long as its 500 here 500 there. not like 3 grand up front.


i found this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-T..._Accessories&hash=item2a0c04d350#ht_500wt_956


seems uber cheap though.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole. The seller has 94%, and a very low transaction count.

A proper refresh/rebuild kit is ~100, comes with all the clutches/steels and seals. The important stuff (IMO) isn't included though. When I build another box, the first thing I will replace is the piston/seal in the forward drum. That's what I blew a few pages back. 20 year old internals just can't handle the extra pressures from the manual VB.


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## alexf4 (Dec 14, 2010)

so something like this

http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/VW_Audi_010_transmission_kits_p/710-000071002.htm

plus that piston. is there anything else?

according to this diagram

http://www.automaticchoice.com/Catalogue/vw010.pdf

the piston would be the round object labeled 172 on the forward clutch diagram?


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## Mr. Tickles (Jul 25, 1999)

Here are two resources I use for automatics (these point directly to 010 stuff).

https://www.wittrans.com/Parts-Finder-Result.aspx?Tran=3 Spd Transaxle&SearchTerm=87

http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/VW-010.html

Transaxle Engineering also sells kevlar bands as an upgrade, and Raybestos clutches.


For the group buy, I know DCor (Honey Bear Dave Corbitt) is interested in one or two, and if needed, I'll throw my money in for one to get us to the 10+ pricing.




alexf4 said:


> so something like this
> 
> http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/VW_Audi_010_transmission_kits_p/710-000071002.htm
> 
> ...


There are 3 pistons, 170,171, 172 that you'll need. Each clutch pack has a piston (fluid pressure on the opposite side builds up and compresses the clutches engaging that drive).

Also, if you run a manual VB, you don't need the governor. But since it seals part of the transmission the best way to bypass it is to remove the drive gear (819 on the exploded view).


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'll be buying those other two pistons soon, in prep for the turbine shaft installation. If one gave way, I'm sure the other two are getting ready to go too.

I did the 'dummy' governor mod as well, so far no leaks.


----------



## alexf4 (Dec 14, 2010)

great, thanks a lot.

so a rebuild kit + 3 pistons and i am set.
reading back in this thread i saw info about blocking off the accumulator, does this manual valve body do that or is it not needed?

secondly why is the governor not needed? is it there to limit the car or to actually prevent the trans from exploding at high rpm's? That van a few pages back seemed to hit some high rpm's so maybe that answers my question.

secondly after these mods what happens to the drive gear on the shift lever? the manual VB i assume only lets the 1,2, and 3 selections work so if one were to put it in drive what would happen?

and would you suggest replacing the differential seals?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

alexf4 said:


> great, thanks a lot.
> 
> so a rebuild kit + 3 pistons and i am set.
> reading back in this thread i saw info about blocking off the accumulator, does this manual valve body do that or is it not needed?


Manual VB deletes it's function. When the VB is installed, you can leave out the accumulator piston and spring.



> secondly why is the governor not needed? is it there to limit the car or to actually prevent the trans from exploding at high rpm's? That van a few pages back seemed to hit some high rpm's so maybe that answers my question.


It controls when the shifts happen, so since the driver controls the shift when using the manual VB, there is again no need for it.



> secondly after these mods what happens to the drive gear on the shift lever? the manual VB i assume only lets the 1,2, and 3 selections work so if one were to put it in drive what would happen?


The stock shifter console is labeled like this: PRND21. With the manual VB (since it is a reverse-pattern), PRN all work the same, but D becomes 1st gear, 2 stays 2nd gear, and 1 becomes 3rd gear. 'D' no longer functions as "Drive", the driver is responsible for shifting the gears all the time. It's like a 3-speed manual transmission, without a clutch.



> and would you suggest replacing the differential seals?


If you've got the box apart, it couldn't hurt to do it too. I did it on mine, but I also swapped flanges.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

we've got our group buy. I'll be ordering very soon. Anyone else want on board, better act quick!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

How many so far? 20? 30? Surely everyone wants in .

...oh wait...everyone thinks automatics suck....


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> How many so far? 20? 30? Surely everyone wants in .
> 
> ...oh wait...everyone thinks automatics suck....


If I still had my MK2 I would probably get one. but I dont, so I wont.


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## alexf4 (Dec 14, 2010)

i have to withdrawal form the group buy. kids vandalized my hyundai last night and now i need a new window.


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

alexf4 said:


> i have to withdrawal form the group buy. kids vandalized my hyundai last night and now i need a new window.


Hyundai windows can be found anywhere at any time, specialized shafts for VW automatics don't.

Hell if I had an extra 400 bones to toss around i'd pick one up for shiz and giggles. 98% chance I'd never use it but I know I'd get my money back plus some if I let it go at a later date.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ya, I'm going to sit on it until I snap the one in my current gearbox. Don't want to be left in the lurch when it finally goes .


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## anotherguy (Dec 5, 2010)

I'll step into alexf4's place. Please put me down for one. 
Can I get some info on where to pay the deposit, etc.
Thanks


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hit up Rabbit6 :thumbup:.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

*Shaft Update*

Jeff at Transaxle has announced that due to recent interest, they will be producing a run of 20 shafts, *at $395 each!!!* 
He says anyone wanting one (or more) is to contact him directly at Transaxle and make a $100 deposit to reserve a shaft. 
While not explicitly saying it's a deadline, he asked to have all deposits in by the end of the month.
Looks like production will be complete by "the end of january" , though I recommend adding a week or two to that just so you won't be disappointed by delays.

Three for me!!!


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

Rabbit6 said:


> *Shaft Update*
> 
> Jeff at Transaxle has announced that due to recent interest, they will be producing a run of 20 shafts, *at $395 each!!!*
> He says anyone wanting one (or more) is to contact him directly at Transaxle and make a $100 deposit to reserve a shaft.
> ...




 I wish I still had my MK2


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## anotherguy (Dec 5, 2010)

Sweet, thanks for the info. I'll give him a call.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Rabbit6 said:


> *Shaft Update*
> 
> Jeff at Transaxle has announced that due to recent interest, they will be producing a run of 20 shafts, *at $395 each!!!*
> He says anyone wanting one (or more) is to contact him directly at Transaxle and make a $100 deposit to reserve a shaft.
> ...


SWEET HOT DAMN! 
I wonder if they're open today... :biggrinsanta: :biggrinsanta: :biggrinsanta:


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I called today (christmas eve) and no answer....hopefully he will be there boxing day.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I doubt they work sundays, I'm going to give them a shout on monday .


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

This thread is awesome..

If i get bored and achieve what I want to with my Mk1 16v, i'm thinking I might go down the manualised Auto road. Would be cool to drag race it. And a cool cruiser. 


Thanks for posting all this info, guys. It's a really good read.


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

Did someone have contact with Transaxle engineering this week, 
I send them an email last sunday, but haven`t got an answer yet.
I wonder if they are closed between christmas and new year.

Martijn.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I think you might be right, I just tried calling them...no answer.


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

He's out of town until next week. Call him Monday or Tuesday.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Canadian dollar above par...can't wait to order!


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

ordered mine today!


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

Ordered one today. :thumbup:


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

I just also ordered mine.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

I just picked up a TJ box in good working order for 100 bux!! 
Ya! 

Call Jeff at transaxle to place order and leave deposit for shaft. 

(818) 998-2739 

make sure you are clear that it is for the front-drive group buy.


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## bevboyy (Apr 20, 2007)

Lucky you..

My TJ just but the dust today. Pressed down the happy pedal to over take a slow driver, then hear a "pop" and then followed by a nasty grinding sound... Coasted in neutral and towed it home...


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

you people on this thread have been very boring lately...so I might as well contribute..I disassembled my audi RDE transmission and inspected everything. Luckily the transmission seems to be rebuilt fairly recently so everything is in great shap except the second gear sun shell which had some large gouges in it from the planetary gearset hitting it from a previous bearing failure. So I drove a total of 200 kms yesterday waited around in dirty shop for 2 hours waiting for the owner to get there and he found me a flawless sunshell for just 40 bucks! I ordered a new piston for the back of the transmission then I will be able to continue it assembly.

Ps... I just bought and a B&M Pro ratchet shifter too make this thing work perfectly.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I've been boring, but that's because it's too cold to work in my garage, lol. I put the car away running this year, so there's not much to do anyway.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Went for a ride in a mild-tune 1G DSM AWD auto today...god I miss my car . The feeling of an auto shifting under load is pure awesome. Only three months to go :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

:heart:


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

Next topic. 
*LIMITED SLIP DIFFERENTIALS!!!!*

I spoke with Gary Peloquin a year ago about making Torsen lsd's for 010. I imagine a couple of the dedicated drag cars in our group will end up with welded dif or a spool, but let's face it, that'd be a useless, miserable experience for a street car. I've got a peloquin in my TD autocross rabbit, and it's amazing. In a hard turn, it shifts the torque over to the outside wheel, slinging the car around the corner with a great deal of authority. Another example of it's prowress: I was in a situation where one wheel was on hardpacked snow, and the other on dry. The car was a 35psi turbodiesel easily capable of dusting 24v VR6 GTI's. Anyway, under full power, the car accelerated as though it had both wheels on dry. I could hear the diff working, it makes a cool howling noise. 
Anyway, Gary seemed a little interested, but indicated the minimal interest he'd recieved thus far hadn't warranted a production run. 
Similar to how we rocked our world with a 300M input shaft group buy, I bet we could get enough confirmed buyers to convince Gary it's time to quit teasing and put out. Most of his diffs sell for around $800-850 US. Let's pretend that is ballpark for an 010 diff. How many of you dudes would be interested in grabbing one? Let's get a rough tally and I'll call him to see if he'll bite. 
ANYONE?

If yes, please make a simple one line post, ie. "I'm Interested in an LSD" to make it easier for me to count.

Thx! Let's handle this like we handled our shafts! hehe

Speaking of our shafts, here's something I see all the time here in Hong Kong on the municipal garbage cans. I'm half expecting Oscar the Grouch to spring out wearing nothing but a trench coat!


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

DO IT!!! :thumbup::thumbup::heart: 



Why did I sell my Jetta?


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

I called Jeff at TE and he said that the shafts should be shipping next week if all goes as planned.


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

DCor said:


> I called Jeff at TE and he said that the shafts should be shipping next week if all goes as planned.


That`s good news


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

I'm working on a LSD for the 010 but I need another complete differential for testing. I just spent the last two weekends thrudging though snowy/muddy boneyards and there just doesn't seem to be any automatic A1 or A2 cars out there. I cruised Craigslist thinking there might be a trashed out roller for a couple of hundred but nothing local.

Anyone got a spare diff sitting around?

I'd like to get something soon so I can use it in the box with the new input shaft.

Send me a PM if you have one and we can make arrangements.

dave.....


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

Dave, I gave all my 010 spares to A2TDI before leaving for China. Maybe he could spring one out for ya...
What's your plan for LSD? Adapt a manual dif version?


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

Yeah, we're planning on adapting a manual version to fit the 010 but we need an unmolested one for development. Any help is appreciated.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

cool! Which man. version are you planning on working with?


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

Rabbit6 said:


> cool! Which man. version are you planning on working with?


PM sent


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

DCor said:


> I'm working on a LSD for the 010 but I need another complete differential for testing. I just spent the last two weekends thrudging though snowy/muddy boneyards and there just doesn't seem to be any automatic A1 or A2 cars out there. I cruised Craigslist thinking there might be a trashed out roller for a couple of hundred but nothing local.
> 
> Anyone got a spare diff sitting around?
> 
> ...


If you can`t find one, let me know. I have enough diffs laying around.
You only have to ship it half around the world.

Martijn.


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

VWtuner-nl said:


> If you can`t find one, let me know. I have enough diffs laying around.
> You only have to ship it half around the world.
> 
> Martijn.


Martijn, that's damn fine of you to offer but I'll probably look for one on this continent.


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## skip57 (Nov 7, 2008)

Ok I'm new to VW world I have 96 5sp that cant handle the hp. of a 2.0. Can I use the 010 trans with some up grades to hold it with out RVB and let it act like a normal auto trans. I have 100mm or the large axel flange. the car is the back up to the fleet when one goes down this one gets driven as a DD. The week ends have not been nice to this car

DCor are you in the lower 48 (I hope) and where can I find or who is producing thees.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

The 010 can easily handle 115hp, but an old worn out transmission will die with any amount of HP. I wouldn't hesitate to put one on the ABA, even in a Mk3. A fellow who sold all his 010 cars long ago (rychas1) had one in his Mk3 IIRC, worked fine. I'd recommend finding one from a Mk2, there are more clutches in the drums, and the final drive is taller (for better rpms at hwy speeds). The Mk1 box is 'weaker' than the Mk2, but that's only to say it has fewer clutches in it.

To be brutally honest, the Mk3 autos are actually quite decent...they just need more TLC than most. A *properly* rebuilt one would easily last a long time. Most of them die due to lack of maintenance, and abuse by teenagers.

As for who's producing these...well, at this point it's a 'DIY' sorta thing . We all try different things, and share the info here.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Sweet! May have rounded up a spare box/shifter/etc. A local dude had his 87 cabby converted to manual, so I get dibs on the 010 stuff. I love cabby autos, they are usually TNA boxes, and usually come with the proper mounts still on them, since they're not the same as the 5-speed stuff (so they get tossed in the 010 parts pile for guys like me to pick up  ). The 100mm flanges are bothersome since my car is 90mm...but beggars can't be choosers. Spare boxes are spare boxes, this brings the count up to three: two TNAs and one EQ.


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## A1peopleS2wagons (Dec 2, 2010)

B4S said:


> Some pictures of adding ATF cooler ports to a non-cooler port case. Big thanks to Rabbit6 for sharing! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.
> Return
> 
> 
> ...


Aha those can support a trans cooler.I am new to this tread.
I have a 82 scirocco with a Automatic.I hear these are buildable trannys.
I wish to put one up to a 93 2.0 16v(9A).That is a cool engine.
I am getting one on tueday for 200 dollars.What do I need to look out for.
The on I have mow had torque converter not inataled right so it blew the tranny.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got another TNA today. It's suuuuuuper clean too, no grease anywhere .

It's actually another full swap: flexplate, converter, starter, cables (all three, practically NEW), mounts, and shifter plate (NO BROKEN TABS! ), and brake pedal. I'm stoked!


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## A1peopleS2wagons (Dec 2, 2010)

B4S said:


> Got another TNA today. It's suuuuuuper clean too, no grease anywhere .
> 
> It's actually another full swap: flexplate, converter, starter, cables (all three, practically NEW), mounts, and shifter plate (NO BROKEN TABS! ), and brake pedal. I'm stoked!


I have a full swap down to the rack and pinion,129 k
No broken parts


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

Still waiting on my turbine shaft.....I spoke with Jeff and he said another few weeks...so my project has been on hold....


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

A2TDI said:


> Still waiting on my turbine shaft.....I spoke with Jeff and he said another few weeks...so my project has been on hold....


weren't you guys supposed to have those like a month or 2 ago?


----------



## A1peopleS2wagons (Dec 2, 2010)

A1peopleS2wagons said:


> I have a full swap down to the rack and pinion,129 k
> No broken parts


Gone now,well it nice I put 2y,020.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

ya man 2 months....my project has come to a hault.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

A2TDI said:


> ya man 2 months....my project has come to a hault.


sucks man.


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

Last week I found another weak spot of the 010 automatic transmission.

A few days before I was driving home from work and I was playing with the rpm limiter on the steering wheel, I set the hold rpm to 4000 and pushed W.O.T. the turbo started spooling and it made +/- 0.6 bar boost, never new this before because when I tried the stall speed of my converter it didn`t make any boost. So Knowing this I immediatly thought that this must also be possible when standing still ( at the starting line).
So a few days later I came home and still standing on the driveway I thought let`s try if it will also make boost standing still:screwy:, so I set the boost controller too 14 psi launch boost and pushed as hard on the brakes as possible and pulled w.o.t.
So far so good, rpm climbs to stall speed and yes it made 0.6 bar boost. but I couldn`t hold the car with the brakes it was too strong. and yes there are big 4 pots AP racing calipers with 285 mm discs on but they couldn`t hold the power.
After creeping half a meter forward i closed the throttle and I thought this is cool for leaving the hole at the 1/4 mile.
But when I wanted to park the car and drove half a meter forward all I heard where strange cracking noises :what:which I heard before with other gearboxes and that doesn`t mean any good.

So after taking the automatic out of the car and taking it apart, It ripped of 3 teeth of the final drive:banghead:
















I think the weak spot is the Steel bearing holder you see below on the picture.
It has a black mark line half around it. this is only on the back side so this means that the holder is flexing in the case.
When it can flex gearing will be pushed out of each other and the teeth will transfer the torque on top of the teeth and then they will break more easily. 
The steel holder = for 100mm drive shafts and the aluminium one = for 90mm drive shafts
So now have to find a solution for this.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I noticed this when building my box too. I swapped it to the 90mm flanges so I could use my current axles. Would the aluminum cup be stronger? I recall it being a lot thicker, although it is cast. Get one made out of billet .


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

B4S said:


> I noticed this when building my box too. I swapped it to the 90mm flanges so I could use my current axles. Would the aluminum cup be stronger? I recall it being a lot thicker, although it is cast. Get one made out of billet .


I also have the idea that the aluminium cup is stronger then the iron cup.
I going to modify an aluminium cup so that I still can use my 100mm axles. of this will not fix the problem i`ll have to make a billet piece.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got the car fired up tonight, ugh, took a while. 6 months of non-running + very cold oil and ATF = needed a jump start. Runs great, has a new ATF leak, and shifts fine. The reverse shift is usually very hard, but tonight it wasn't. I'm hoping it's just because of the cold ATF, but I suppose if I have to rebuild the box again...it's a reason to fix the new leak. 

I may spend my summer doing a proper rebuild on a box, all pistons, seals, etc. My current one is a 'when it breaks fix it' special, lol.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

New shifter arrives on monday .


----------



## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

bwhahaha:laugh:


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

Wooooo!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

wantacad said:


> bwhahaha:laugh:


 bwhahaha? 

Nothing makes a manual valve body better than a good shifter .


----------



## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> bwhahaha?
> 
> Nothing makes a manual valve body better than a good shifter .


 that's what she said?


----------



## bevboyy (Apr 20, 2007)

B4S said:


> New shifter arrives on monday .


Damn that is cool....:beer:


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## bevboyy (Apr 20, 2007)

*Weights*

Does anyone know off hand what the weight of the transmission (sans fluids and torque converter) is?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I don't have an exact weight, but it's damn heavy, lol. Heavier than an 020 anyway.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got the shifter, I'm not terribly impressed with it to be honest. Goes to show what you get when you go for the cheapest option . The reverse lockout does not come with a spring for some unknown reason, so it dangles loosely...which bugged the hell out of me. I rounded up a spring from my junk pile, and quickly added it to the shifter. Now it's much better .

I'll look into mounting it once it warms up and I can roll the car outside. For now, stock is good enough. Modding stuff is only fun when it's above 10*C, lol.


----------



## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I bit the bullet a couple months back and bought a b&m pro ratchet shifter...I can't wait! 

p.s. the input shafts still havn't even been splined yet! April 2nd my local racetrack opens


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## bbattey (Mar 9, 2011)

I'm pretty new to this forum, but I see where I may be able to make a contribution here. To get a rough comparison of the stiffness of the aluminum part to the steel part:

An aluminum part would be 1/3 as stiff as steel if both parts were identical. But, the parts aren't identical. Stiffness goes up as the third power of thickness, so, the aluminum part needs to be thicker in the area(s) that's taking the load to be as stiff as the steel. The formula would be something like:

Ta = (3 x Ts^3)^.33

where Ta = thickness of the aluminum
Ts = thickness of the steel

The '^' symbol means 'to the power of' so 'Ts^3' means Ts times itself 3 times & '^.33' means cubed root, that is, 'some number that when multiplied by itself 3 times'.

So, for example, if the steel part is, say .04" thick in the area where the black band is, in order for the aluminum part to be as stiff as the steel part, it needs to be

(3 x .04^3)^.33 = ~ .06" thick. (Actually .058 but I rounded off; this ain't that precise a calculation.)

So, about 50% thicker on the aluminum makes the part ~ as stiff as the steel one. If the aluminum part is greater than 50% thicker, it's most likely stiffer than the steel part.

This is just a rough comparison, but I thought it might give you a rough idea as to whether or not to try just switching to the aluminum part. Hope this helps.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hey, welcome aboard! That's an awesome bit of info you've contributed, much appreciated! I'm not much of a scientician, but I understood the last bit . 

Does shape play a role in the strength as well? If the metal and aluminum pieces are not the same shape, can the same formula hold true? I'm not trying to dispute anything, but I'm definitely not an engineer, so I'd like to learn about some more of the variables .


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## bbattey (Mar 9, 2011)

Definitely, shape plays a role. Looking back at the pic of the two parts, the aluminum part has a lot more material at the smaller diameter end. I can't quite tell from the breakaway drawing I have how this part (manual calls it the side cover) is loaded. Does this part attach to the case & hold the driveshaft bearing in its smallest inside diameter? If that's how this part holds the ring gear in place, my guess is that the aluminum one is stiffer because of all that extra material near the nose. Way more than 50% thicker!

B4S, I've read this entire thread multiple times. I think you're more "scientician" than you give yourself credit for! Some have an intuitive feel for it & they don't need to know the equations.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, thank you for the compliment. I've got some engineer friends that I frequently debate stuff with, who probably wish you hadn't said that :laugh: . I'm just a lucky hack, with a healthy dose of curiosity, and a full set of tools, lol.

The cup has a tapered race in the bottom, that mates to the needle bearing on the diff. You can see the thickness of the cup at that point, it carries that all the way through.










Here you can see the inside of the cup from the axle flange side, note it's even ribbed for reinforcement I think. The 100mm axle flange may not fit in here without modifications, not sure.


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## bbattey (Mar 9, 2011)

Thanks for the pics, helps a lot. You said this part is a casting, right? Castings don't work well if they have some sections that are thicker than other sections. The raised area around the bolt holes looks like a way to get a thicker flange while still allowing it to cast OK.

My best guess is that the steel part is a cost reduction effort by VW. It worked out OK for VW, not too good for VWtuner-nl.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yeah, it's definitely a casting. They stopped using these when they went to 100mm flanges, so they were all made during the 'quality counts' era of car manufacturing. It's pretty heavy, but I have no idea how well it was made. Short of cutting it open to see if there are any weaknesses in it, there's no way to tell how well it was cast . Making one out of billet would be the safest option, but I can only imagine how expensive that could be...ouch.


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## bbattey (Mar 9, 2011)

Changing the subject a bit, but still on 010, I'm thinking my '89 GL would be a lot more fun to drive with more direct control of the shift points. (I'd love a manual valve body, but don't want to spend the $ on it.) So, I'm looking into the feasibility of doing a DIY shift kit. I want a transmission that stays in 1st or 2nd when I put the lever there & shifts firmly & promptly when I move the lever. Now, it stays in a lower gear all right, but takes its time to shift after I move the lever. I want an immediate shift, no matter how lightly I'm on the throttle. 

Torqueflite shift kit manufacturers advertise "full manual control," so I think it can be done.

B4S, you posted some valve body mods earlier in this thread but I think you dropped that after buying the MVB. You never tested that modified valve body, did you?

I've been studying everything I can find on this transmission. (Much of it obtained from earlier links in this thread; thank you, posters!) Right now, I'm thinking the way to get what I want is to modify the valve body so that the passages used when in shift positions 1 & 2 that send line pressure to the throttle side of the shift valves also send some fluid to the governor passage. This would raise the governor-side pressure on the 1st & 2nd gear shift valves, hopefully not so much that they shift, but enough so that when I move the lever, the disappearance of the line pressure on the throttle side of the shift valves causes an immediate shift.

To firm up the shifts a little, I'm thinking of raising the line pressure a little, shimming the accumulator spring, & increasing the hole sizes to the shift valves in the transfer plate, like B4S showed in an earlier post.

I also came across info that at one time there was a web page that described how to convert a Chrysler A413 valve body into a manual valve body for the Mopar crowd, but that website no longer exists. I think it was done by making a new transfer plate out of brass sheet. It didn't reverse the shift pattern, but that would be all right by me. Did anyone see this web page before it disappeared?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

My home made shiftbkit was a bust, I drilled in the completely wrong places . If I had a fluid diagram, it would be cake to figure out where to drill. I have playes with dodge boxes before, and I remember the site you are talking about...but none of the details . I know my manual vb is extensively modified: custom distribution body, custom seperator plate, all the uneeded valves removed, custom spring rates on the existing valves, and some holes drilled in the vb to return fluid to the pan. 

If it were possible to get an acurate fluid map, the progress would come a lot faster in this regard.


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## scrapper (Feb 17, 2007)

B4S said:


> The feeling of an auto shifting under load is pure awesome.


Yeah right i just took my Corrado out for a test run. I just put on a GT40r turbo and 4" down pipe  sounds beastly at 17lbs. All i got left is Lugtronics mgmt and boost per gear and finish the intake. Automatics can be fun when boosting frr sure.:thumbup:
Here's a pic


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## bbattey (Mar 9, 2011)

B4S, yeah, the lack of a fluid diagram really hurts. I've been using Google Translate to try to understand the German 010 manual that (I think) you uploaded. I'll post the results if I end up with something worthwhile.


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## bbattey (Mar 9, 2011)

*Beef up the side cover*

@vwtuner-nl - If you can't use the aluminum side cover, you could stiffen your steel side cover considerably by welding some triangular steel gussets on the outside by the bearing end. At least two in the fore & aft positions, maybe 1/8" thick steel. Two more gussets at the top & bottom positions would probably help too.

I agree with B4S that a billet cover would kill the problem dead, but this might do the job for considerably less $$$.


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## Charlie_M (Mar 23, 2011)

bbattey said:


> B4S, yeah, the lack of a fluid diagram really hurts. I've been using Google Translate to try to understand the German 010 manual that (I think) you uploaded. I'll post the results if I end up with something worthwhile.


Have you already seen the manuals here?:
http://volkswagen.msk.ru/index.php?p=page05_010

(I haven't read this whole thread; sorry if it's posted earlier...)


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yeah, that's where I found a lot of info about the 010. The fluid map has yet to be found though


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## bbattey (Mar 9, 2011)

Thanks, but I already have those. The only document I've found that comes close to having a flow diagram is the one in German.


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

Herewith a link to the SSP 08 about the 010 transmission
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_8.PDF

at the end of this document is a flow diagram with valves.

@BBattey, I`ve also thoughd if reinforcing the steel cup, at the moment i`m using the aluminium cup which i`ve modified so that my 100mm axles still fit.'
But I haven`t tried putting alot of torque on it because at the moment I`m using a stock automatic.
The modified automatic is waiting for the new inputshaft to come.


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## bbattey (Mar 9, 2011)

@vwtuner-nl - That's the document I'm working with.

Glad you could successfully rework the aluminum side cover.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It'd be easier to work with that pdf, if there was an english translation for us savages over here in North America, lol.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

really the fluid flow is not a big deal...simply pull a valve body off of a transmission and start putting shop air through ports and see what it applies..


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hmm...interesting idea. I wonder if my little compressor can handle those pressures...

If my manual VB wasn't in a box already, I'd take a peek and see what they leave in, valve-wise. There are a lot of valves missing from it, and some bleed holes that are not stock.

If anything, it would be nice to be able to actually make a 'shift-kit' transfer plate to firm up a stock box.


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

This thread is a gold mine!!

Thanks for all the info you guys are posting.

I may have 2 010 autos coming my way and I plan on putting a reverse MVB in one. Not sure of the codes yet, though. 


I reckon it should be cool behind my 16v.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

You only need like 20 psi to actuate the clutches my friend...


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

also I should add that its common practice for a transmission tech to actuate all of the clutches and bands with shop air before putting the valve body on and putting the transmission back in. Especially if your questioning something you can see if it works with your own eyes before you waste anytime putting the transmission in.


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

It`s quiet in here, did someone already received "the shaft"?

They would be shipped in the beginning of this week


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

Got it today. Time for reassembly.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

DCor said:


> Got it today. Time for reassembly.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm about to toss my transmission out the window and go back to my 4 speed . I've been fighting with the new shifter for HOURS, and can't seem to get the shift lever to the right length to use the Hurst 1/4 stick I got the other day. Now it's a welded/rewelded mess and my mojo is low .

The stock lever is 70mm, and I am up to nearly 85mm (IIRC) and it's STILL not getting all the gates properly. Now I've got to pull the pan off and replace the hacked up lever with another stocker just so I can drive my car. Very frustrated and fed up right now.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Last night at 10:30, a last-ditch attempt to get it right without doing anymore welding or dropping the pan.

Result: 

Success 

It works, so now I can say I didn't waste 30 minutes installing it...and 3.5 hours trying to get the throw right. Eff Yeah .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)




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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

Hey chad since this is a sharing thread care to share how much higher the new shifter hole is compared to the stocker? also my turbine shaft arrives tmrw!:heart:


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## ratdub (Jan 17, 2005)

Im liking what I see...


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

A2TDI said:


> Hey chad since this is a sharing thread care to share how much higher the new shifter hole is compared to the stocker? also my turbine shaft arrives tmrw!:heart:


I'll go measure, it's also a bit offset at the top. I'd take pics, but I don't want anyone to see my handiwork, lol. I'll get the measurements and draw a picture. I had to angle the cable mounting/clip bracket slightly as well.

It's not an exact pattern match to be honest. It's VERY important to put both the trans and shifter in neutral and mate them that way, it comes really close that way.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Just got back from a 2 hour drive. Everything worked flawlessly. WOT pulls from a standing start, city driving, stop lights, gearing down, engine braking, etc...all awesome .


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

DCor said:


> Got it today. Time for reassembly.


Who`s gona try first?


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

We'll have it together tomorrow night and will be at the Import Faceoff event in Kansas City on Sunday. We got a new boost controller so we'll be collecting data all day. I don't think we can win the class but if we can see improvement, I'll call the trip a success.


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

keep us updated!! 

I`ll keep my fingers crossed.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'll get the measurement tonight, promise.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I finally picked up my 300m INPUT SHAFT!!!! It looks fantastic, and chad I urgce you to pick up one of these suckers!!!! The project should be moving forward very shortly! A strong automatic a Holset VNT turbo and a 1.8t shoved into a 2300lb mk2 jetta should be interesting


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'll call and see if they have any left. I couldn't get in on the buy in jan, too much stuff on the go. If not, I'll have to live vicariously through you guys .


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

DCor said:


> We'll have it together tomorrow night and will be at the Import Faceoff event in Kansas City on Sunday. We got a new boost controller so we'll be collecting data all day. I don't think we can win the class but if we can see improvement, I'll call the trip a success.


And how did it go?????? please bring us the good news


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

Rained out. No news.

We did; however, find a good bar and got a little loaded.


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

To bad it rained out. when will be the next race?


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I finally finished my transmission and now its in the car. just have to finish up axles starter and shifter..shortly it will be done


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Just a quick question but....

What are you people out there doing in regards to starter motors when fitting an 010 auto behind a 20vt 06A block (if any of you out there have this setup)?

My stock 010 starter motor doesn't fit, as it has clearance problems with the wider ribs of the block of the 20v.

I also don't want to grind down the block or the starter. Theres just too much to grind off.

Does anyone out there make a high torque "mini" style starter for these autos?


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

i dint think anyone has ever even thought of making a smaller starter..mine bolted right up but mine is the 058 20v block.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

A2TDI said:


> i dint think anyone has ever even thought of making a smaller starter..mine bolted right up but mine is the 058 20v block.


Yeah the 06A block is wider through the back section with big humps hanging off the side.

Might have another starter to try of a Seat. 1.4L. Apparently this starter has the same bolt pattern. 

Time will tell.

for those interested... Heres a pic of a 058 "external waterpump" block













Heres a 06A "internal waterpump" block.

You can clearly see the thicker web supports at the back of the block. this is what interferes with the stock Mk1 010 auto starter motor.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

B4S said:


>


Just wondering what length shifter cable you ordered with your shifter?


Super stoked right now!!!!!!!!!!!1

I just ordered every part required from Jeff at transaxle for my 010 auto build. 

All the same spec gear as in his 500+hp LS1 buggy!

Can't wait to see how it goes behind my K-Jet turbo'd mk1, which has already dipped into the 12's with a stock diesel 4spd, Spec drag clutch & locked diff!

Can't recommend Jeff enough for all his help & willingness to help you out with all kinds of advice.


Will source a local convertor shop to mod the stock convertor for a 4200rpm high stall


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

My shifter cable is 5', but it's tight. 6' would be almost too long, but would allow a bit more freedom.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

B4S said:


> My shifter cable is 5', but it's tight. 6' would be almost too long, but would allow a bit more freedom.


Awesome!!! Thanks heaps for that.



Thinking of going with a TCI Outlaw shifter.

If anyone else is thinking of one of these...... 

*DON'T* forgot to order the reverse pattern shift plate!!!! Part # TCI #890-618013 












Friend has one in his Old Holden. Love it. Firm shift/select feel.

But its also a Powerglide & only a 1-2 shift. No need to pull the lever to move into 3rd!

Its a crappy pic, but its there!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

When I was using my stock shifter, I had to modify the cable entry point (at the shifter base), but the 5' B&M Unimatic shifter cable worked great with it. Now I'm using a Hurst QuarterStick, and the 5' cable is as tight as it can get, but the shifter is mounted exactly where I wanted it. It's almost a bit too close to my leg, but that could be blamed on a few macho (fat) physical features .

(ie: nearly 300 lbs and 6'1" :laugh: ).

I still have to get the measurements of the mods to the shifter lever at the tranny, sorry for the delay. Jeff at transaxle also has a laser cut shifter arm that would work with any TH350/400-based shifter, as well as having their own proprietary shifter unit. 

I don't have the budget for the 300M shaft, even if there are some left. I'm going boost anyway, since I'm more of a cruiser now anyway. I've got three spare turbine shafts ready to go though...fingers crossed I won't need one this year.


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

I`m using a 058 block (AEB) and I also had to grind down the back for the starter. It`s no problem.
Although If there would be an option to convert to a smaller starter I would be interested. 
So please keep us updated if you can make it work with the smaller starter.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Most of the muscle car companies that make high power starters use a single base unit, with different adapter plates. It would be simple to convert one of them for use on a VW, if the gear would mesh with the flexplate teeth properly.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

VWtuner-nl said:


> I`m using a 058 block (AEB) and I also had to grind down the back for the starter. It`s no problem.
> Although If there would be an option to convert to a smaller starter I would be interested.
> So please keep us updated if you can make it work with the smaller starter.


A friend is sending me another "smaller" starter motor next week to test. 

Will post up the outcome when it happens.

If not, I'll make an adapter plate to suit a IMI High torque starter with roughly the same gear drive.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

any one know how many RPM @ 80 MPH you have on a TNA trans? I think my TJ was 4000 at 80, so a TNA is going to be closer to 4500-4750 right?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I use www.scirocco.org/gears. The TNA final is 3.46 and third is 1.00.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

B4S said:


> I use www.scirocco.org/gears. The TNA final is 3.46 and third is 1.00.


4850 :what::laugh:


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

Came across this last night, might be useful to someone. 

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1134225


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I have that book somewhere, lol. It's quite useful, as it compiles the 083/003 and 010 information into one place. The diagrams are fuzzy sometimes, but it's a very handy book to have :thumbup:.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

So I've got my turbo kit ready to go on the ol' 010...stock turbine shaft and all .

I'm not convinced it's a super weak link, as I've run a stock G60 on one, and a friend has had his ABA turbo on an 010 (albeit pure stock EQ box) for a while now. It's completely unhealthy, slips like mad, but still managed 15.0 at the track with it, without snapping the shaft. Now, the above examples are low-power, which is exactly what I'm building. Rabbit6's car snapped shafts at the tree, and VWTuner-nl snaps them between 2-3. One of those boxes is on a PG-T DIY setup, and the other is pushing more than 500whp. One is a stock refresh, and one is built. I'm going to put my semi-built box on a light-hp turbo motor and see how long it lasts .

I drag race perhaps once or twice a year now, I'm more of a cruiser after a bit more oomph (the carbs were waaaaaaaaaaaay too soft down low, the converter KILLED them). Should be interesting to see what happens. I'll be running MS3 on a stock-compression RV code 8v, with a mitsubishi 14B turbo, and water injection for intercooling. I'd like to be able to reliably put down 150whp, because I think the turbine shaft could easily take it. The Audi 5000-T easily had more power than that, and although it was a longer turbine shaft...it was still basically the same thing. I've got three spares though, just in case . 

The real stressor will be the manual valve body...


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

with 150 you will be very reliable! On another note i finally got my car running and took it out for its maiden voyage last night in the rain.Did i mention i am running burnot of drag radials with a welded diff? The welded diff is brutal in a front wheel drive car without power steering but The car seems to shift nice! I wish i could open the throttle but anymore then 10% throttle it was just melting the tires off..


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Awesome! Congrats dude! Did you go for the manual valve body or are you running with the accumulator delete?


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

its a transaxle special! everything Jeff made to strengthen the internals I bought. The trans started life as an rde code audi pinion trans and i just freshened it up with raysbestos metallic clutches and a transaxle engineering kevlar 2nd gear brake band, also through in the chromoly clutch drum, the special pump drive flower, the full manual valvebody and the 300m inputshaft. for the differential I think its th TK which is a 3.76 r&p and the diff is welded solid.:screwy: Last year the car made 348 whp and 25x wtq so this should be interesting once it stops raining.:beer:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Very cool. I still kinda regret not doing the turbine shaft, but my goals are so low that I'd never even use the box to it's potential. I went with stock clutches, but grabbed that kevlar band too. I'd love to see that chromoly drum, must have been gorgeous .

How do you like that MVB? When the ATF warms up, reverse is a hell of a shot isn't it .


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

what`s the advantage of the chromoly clutch drum? 
is it lighter then the original piece?

I`m considering machining myself an aluminium clutch drum from 7075-T6, to lower the shock load on the inputshaft shifting from second to third.

martijn.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

the chromoly clutch drum is a stock drum with the splines punched out over and inch then a chromoly insert is pressed in then resplined to the stock size. apparently Jeff had problems in the past tearing the splines out on the high horsepower stuff. Tonight im rebuilding my turbo so the weekend i should be able to do some wide open throttle experimenting. wish me luck!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hope you have a non-rainy weekend! We've only got one sunny day ahead of us up here in Ottawa, and I get to spend it doing yardwork and working on the daily . I'm going to try to sneak in some time to put the head back on my Rabbit though...with turbo .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

VWtuner-nl said:


> what`s the advantage of the chromoly clutch drum?
> is it lighter then the original piece?
> 
> I`m considering machining myself an aluminium clutch drum from 7075-T6, to lower the shock load on the inputshaft shifting from second to third.
> ...


Hmm, after you said this, I went back to the diagrams. Think the stock drum could be lightened slightly? I remember it being quite heavy, probably to help with smooth shifts in a stock application. Some of the muscle car drag racers using GM autos actually run very few clutches in the drums, to help reduce friction and drag during their runs. I wonder if reducing the amount of clutches/steels in the direct drum could also help? There would need to be a large pressure plate in there to take up the slack, but I bet it could be made out of aluminum. I doubt there'd be much slip when going from 2-3, there isn't a huge difference in the gears at that point.

Maybe I'll tear about my old EQ rabbit box with 3/3 clutches, and weigh the drums. In a car with a MVB, the high line pressures could probably keep it from slipping at the track. Would be a different story on the street though, with all the heat from driving.

Another thought: I know everyone is in a rush to upgrade to the 5" drum from the larger cars, but what about keeping the 4.75" drum for less rotating mass? That's the one I have in my car currently, as I didn't see the need to upgrade right away. It might also help in reducing the shock loads when shifting into 3rd. I don't see an issue in clamping force, if it's got 5 clutches in it, and it's a drag car. Remember, all the autos that Transaxle builds are for sandrails (mostly), so they've built their boxes to handle long dune runs, and V8-style torque.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

jeff was even saying he runs alot of his v8s run the 3 pinion planetary gear sets. I think a stock vw tranny with new metallic clutches and a good band with the manual valvebody and line pressure turned way up would work awesome even for higher power vws. Rabbit6's transmissions are stock with simple valvebody mods and the hold up to a 180hp with no problem. I even feel that his transmission was worn out but still worked great.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm definitely putting a rush on my build, so I can get out and test my transmission. Got the head on today, and will hopefully be able to sort out the oil return this week. Then it's just the easy stuff, intake, piping, management, tuning, etc, :laugh:.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

I got a package today which brought a smile to my dial!!!

Transaxles finest!!!! Bring on the auto build sometime soon!!! (maybe in 2 months depending on what goes on here & theres always heaps going on & things to do!)


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

Oh that is sexy.



I love how in the model forums people are trash talking the 010 in favor of a manual swap. If they only knew. :laugh:


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

John Milner said:


> I got a package today which brought a smile to my dial!!!
> 
> Transaxles finest!!!! Bring on the auto build sometime soon!!! (maybe in 2 months depending on what goes on here & theres always heaps going on & things to do!)


That`s the package for a rock solid trans!

If it would be possible then please can you measure how much clutch play jeff gave your forward and direct clutch. I really like to know this information.
When I asked him for this information, he wouldn`t tell me that.
(If you don`t know how to do it please let me know.)

Greetings,

Martijn.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I really need to do something about my stock turbine shaft. I need a money tree.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

John Milner said:


> I got a package today which brought a smile to my dial!!!
> 
> Transaxles finest!!!! Bring on the auto build sometime soon!!! (maybe in 2 months depending on what goes on here & theres always heaps going on & things to do!)


I'm surprised to see the large pressure plate in the Direct clutch, I would have figured it would be much thinner. How many clutches are in that drum? The one I built for myself is using a single steel under the circlip, it was necessary in order to get it to 5 clutches. Interesting.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

Jeff was telling me extra clutches wouldnt really benefit too much. He was say you get more benefits out of more pressure. My transmission is pretty well what the above pictured transmission is and so far it has taken some serious beatings!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Interesting. Kinda goes against the 'traditional' performance auto build philosophy, but I guess he'd know best in this case, lol. Good to know


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

> My transmission is pretty well what the above pictured transmission is and so far it has taken some serious beatings!


 if you can't post a video, it didn't happen! :laugh:


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

well wednesday night I had a severe drivline failure.....I was just finishing up my cars tune and I wanted to make a small pass on a flat back road with full power. on the second to third shift I sheared the center of the flex plate. It sounded similar to an engine throwing 4 connecting rods at the same time at 8100 rpm... turns out that I used crack prone flex plate that vw was suppose to replace back in the 80s...my flexplat i was using was the full steel one with all the holes. the updated one is a ring gear with a wimpy triangle in the center..so i purchased 2 wimpy one and welded them together to make a super flywheel. I will try to get some pics up soon of carnage.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hmm, I'm kinda surprised. That FP looks pretty beefy to me, but I guess not too many people have pushed these boxes as far as you guys have...so I guess there's going to be issues. I just hope my sub 200whp setup doesn't twist the turbine shaft .


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Jeez A2TDI! 

Doesn't sound too flash at all. Hope that doesn't happen to me with my planned 400+hp 20v! 

When you mention the flexplate with "all the holes", what did you mean? 

I know what the triangle style flex plates look like, but I've never seen them on a mk1. 

Here is the one I've go there for my 010. I've also got another couple of these too. Just in case. 

I'll be fitting it up with ARP flywheel bolts of a Escort I think & also Honda bolts to mount the torque convertor. 


Anyway, these are the pics of how the Aussie spec Mk1s flex plates are


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Same one I've got.


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

So we finally made it to the track again. We now have the 300M shaft (heat-treated before) and added a new boost controller. I wish our boost controller worked as well as the tranny did. We never really got to lay the boost back into it but the car shifted well......even under a load. We ran a bunch of mid-to upper 11's but we still have a bunch of power to get back into it at some point. 

Right now, we're gonna do something with the diff and dyno the car to setup the boost controller a little better. 

 It is promising, though. There is more development to do but my gut feeling is that we're going the right direction. 

dave....


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

DCor said:


> So we finally made it to the track again. We now have the 300M shaft (heat-treated before) and added a new boost controller. I wish our boost controller worked as well as the tranny did. We never really got to lay the boost back into it but the car shifted well......even under a load. *We ran a bunch of mid-to upper 11's *but we still have a bunch of power to get back into it at some point.
> 
> Right now, we're gonna do something with the diff and dyno the car to setup the boost controller a little better.
> 
> ...


 
What tires did you guys use this time? the 13" D.O.T's? if so that's pretty damm good.:thumbup:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

DCor said:


> So we finally made it to the track again. We now have the 300M shaft (heat-treated before) and added a new boost controller. I wish our boost controller worked as well as the tranny did. We never really got to lay the boost back into it but the car shifted well......even under a load. We ran a bunch of mid-to upper 11's but we still have a bunch of power to get back into it at some point.
> 
> Right now, we're gonna do something with the diff and dyno the car to setup the boost controller a little better.
> 
> ...


 
Thats awesome news & very promising. 

Hopefully my 010 will be just as good, but I won't have the kind of power you currently have. 

Although the 20v build might be another story. 

Look forward to hearing more progress


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

Yup. It was with the 13" M & H d.o.t.'s


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

well i pulled the transmission out and found the flex plate was still in good shape! the bad news is the cast crankshaft of my 400 whp 20v snapped and took the valves out and 1 connecting rod. not sure if i can afford to build an engine this year.:facepalm:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

holy chit!


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

CAST crank!? in a 1.8T? Is nothing sacred anymore? JHMFC!
 
Sell the seadoo, dump the broad and if that isn't enough, I've got a really sweet quasi-aba stashed away... You'd either have to gather 8v turbo parts, or plunk a 1.8T head on it somehow.


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## xtremvw3 (Jun 10, 2011)

gotta be a problem that caused it, since those cast crank can take some serious boost without failure.

Sorry to hear about the carnage, good luck with it


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

but what problem could possibly cause a crank shaft to snap? so weird.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It's because you haven't sold me one of your (or talked Rabbit6 into it) spare turbine shafts .

I know I've never mentioned it before, but I'm sure if you DO sell me one, all your problems will go away .


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

I think Jeff made extras. Give him a call if you really need one.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I really should...I go back and forth from wanting one, to waiting to see how my stocker holds up to sub 200whp weekend cruiser toy duty. I really want to go 'bigger'...


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Sigh.

It'll be here next week. Ordered it today. Looks like I have to dig out that 9A 16vT (oldschool T3/T4e, pre-ebay) now .


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

B4S said:


> Sigh.
> 
> It'll be here next week. Ordered it today. Looks like I have to dig out that 9A 16vT (oldschool T3/T4e, pre-ebay) now .


better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I suppose, but it really was money I didn't need to spend...not that any of us are stopped by that logic .

Took the car out for a shakedown run last night. The turbo seemed reluctant to boost at first, but it loosened up...which is odd. It also still pisses oil, but it's coming from the hotside and dripping down the return line. $25 dollar turbo might need a rebuild :laugh:.

On a transmission related note: I'm getting 6 psi right now, and everything shifts great .


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

Glad your rabbit is finally turbocharged Chad! now you can put that transmission to good use!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yep, and my turbine shaft is on the way, so the next phases of the project will have higher power goals .

Fixed my leaky oil return tonight, and put in the BPRE7 plugs. Water/meth install is almost done (no intercooler), but everything is on hold for the moment because I had to park my daily/project in front of my Rabbit's garage door...and it's up on stands right now while I do the rear brakes.

The PCV smoke is heavy out of the catch can, which concerns me...but not enough to stop driving it . Just gonna have to route it into the exhaust .


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

that might present a bit of a problem if the exhaust pressure is higher than the pcv pressure. If it's gone through an oil separator, consider routing it into the intake. :thumbup:

Ps: post video, you lazy bastids! I'm stuck in china completely VWless and desperately need a fix!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

No vids here yet, still a few minor things to finish (such as the daily Mk3 blocking my Rabbit in the garage, needs fixin'). I was going to run the PCV into the exhaust using a universal Jegs kit with one-way valves, but I'll probably try to route it back into the intake. It's only vapor, it all condenses in the can anyway.

Gives me a good reason to actually build an intake for the turbo :laugh:.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

/hopes dashed


It's supposed to rain all weekend, so I won't be able to finish the water/meth install or take the car for a spin. Pretty bummed right now .


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

so aba 20v build it is!parts are going to take a month to get but it should be one hell of a little engine


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Sweet!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Getting a solid 10 psi on it now that the water/meth is keeping it from pinging. Should be heading to the track next weekend, if the weather holds out...


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got the TA input shaft today...can't wait until my stocker snaps! .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Tried a bit of torque braking last night, and tested out the meth injection. Both were successful, except the stall is waaaaaaaaay too low for good launches. I'm not sure there was any wheelspin, because the logs didn't show anything like it. I find it hard to believe there WASN'T any, but datalogging doesn't lie (most times  ). I'm only running 10psi, so any video I could get would be spectacularly underwhelming :laugh:.

Thinking of going to the track this coming weekend, might have better updates then.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Oh, another note. I'm not sure if it's the heat affecting my old starter (which is wrapped in a DEI starter wrap blanket, under the stock heat shield), or my meth pump drawing too many amps at startup...but the car cranks over VERY slowly now. The 100amp alt charges at 14.0, but the voltage pre-cranking is always around 12v. It usually drops quite far during crank too. 

I think the 010 starter setup needs more amps than usually required, so I'm going to put the W/M on a switch, so that I can engage it AFTER the car is running.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

B4S said:


> Oh, another note. I'm not sure if it's the heat affecting my old starter (which is wrapped in a DEI starter wrap blanket, under the stock heat shield), or my meth pump drawing too many amps at startup...but the car cranks over VERY slowly now. The 100amp alt charges at 14.0, but the voltage pre-cranking is always around 12v. It usually drops quite far during crank too.
> 
> I think the 010 starter setup needs more amps than usually required, so I'm going to put the W/M on a switch, so that I can engage it AFTER the car is running.


A friend & l are currently working on adapting a gear reduction starter motor out of a later VW. Its a heap smaller than the stock 010 starter too.

I started on this, as the stock 010 starter doesn't fit behind a 20v block without clearancing the block, which l didn't want to do, but also as they are getting on in age, are more susceptible to heat too. 

Not sure how long it will be till its put into action though sorry. Got a other things on the go before l fit & test the 010 behind the 8vt, work on the conv stall in preparation for the built 20v later this year.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

A better starter would be fabulous IMO. I know over here, the Mk2 turbo diesels came in automatic, and those starters are STRONG...it's tough to find any though. Even through the rebuilders you'll usually get a gasser starter, the TD automatics were few and far between.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ok...I was just reading the Audi 5000 Bentley manual (what, I'm the only one?) and stumbled across an interesting bit of info. The 5000T converter has a 3000-3300 RPM stall speed, and looks a LOT like the 010 converter. The part #s are the same, except the Audi one starts with 087 instead of 010. The converter code is "V", according to ETKA, but it's best to just find a turbo 5000 and snag it. Who knows what the codes really are, lol.

It could be a cheap way to get a higher stall converter, without shelling out for a custom one. I'm going to see if I can find one to experiment with for next summer .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yeah...ignore the above...
http://www.gopnh.com/Transmissions.cfm?Transmission= 087


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## adam12er (Sep 6, 2002)

B4S said:


> Yeah...ignore the above...
> http://www.gopnh.com/Transmissions.cfm?Transmission= 087


Not only that, but stall speed is very dependent on the application (same converter has different stall speeds on two different cars).

The turbo converter may be the same internally, but have a higher stall.

I do concur though, the stock stall speed sucks!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I think it stalled out at 2500-2600 on me the other day, although I haven't done any other testing. It took the car FOREVER to get rolling though, even with the 3-4 psi it made . The logs show no tranny slip, and once I passed 3000 it started to pick up faster.

I'm sure on a 2.0 it might stall a couple hundred rpms higher, due to the extra torque available.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Prepped the car for tomorrow's cruise...it's the first one further than 10 minutes from my house, so I've got all my tools packed . Got 5 gallons of 98 octane (cost me $56  ), FINALLY got around to siphoning out the excess ATF in the tranny (had to take out about a quart :laugh: ), filled the meth tank with 50/50, and tried to get the turbo intake to point away from the exhaust manifold.

I'm heading to the shop tomorrow (HP Auto in Gatineau, Qc...shameless plug  ), and I expect to have the tune finalized by then. I'll probably also get started on next year's setup, since the owner of HP (a longtime friend/former roomie) has stated that I need a minimum of 350whp. Oh darn :laugh:.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

So, without getting into too much detail, I'm selling stuff off.

-Transaxle Engineering reverse manual valve body: $350 shipped in North America (comes with chromoly pump drive)

-Kevlar brake band: $40

-300m turbine shaft: $350 shipped in North America (taking a big hit on that one, got it last week, paid $450 plus shipping  ).

There are a few things that need doing, and my Rabbit needs sacrificing for now. The circle of life I guess :laugh:.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

B4S said:


> So, without getting into too much detail, I'm selling stuff off.
> 
> -Transaxle Engineering reverse manual valve body: $350 shipped in North America (comes with chromoly pump drive)
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear this dude!

But l'm sure there is a very good reason for the change of plans eg. family reasons.

Hope you all can pull through & then get back on track your VW plans very soon

Always looked forward to reading your updates!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Thanks John .

Actually, this decision was made on a non-depressing note, for once. I want to build a hot rod, and simply don't make as much money in real life as I do in my dreams...so I have to liquidate in order to try anything new. I still have my Mk3 Jetta as a daily, and I won't be making any snap decisions about what I want to build next, so maybe by the end of the summer I'll be rolling in my 010'd Rabbit again :laugh:.

The 010 buildup kept me going for a looooong time, since I was pretty bored with VWs. Having the manual valve body'd box was awesome, so I'm not 'leaving' because I blew anything up or got frustrated...just have 'the itch' again .

One thing I did notice though, is that my shifter seems to still be a bit 'off'. If nothing major sells (the tranny internals, etc), and I restart the project over the winter, I'll be rocking a stock shifter for next year.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Dug a little deeper today, since I was bored. Yesterday's sluggish performance was caused by the transmission eating itself. Gear oil/ATF cocktail awaited me upon dipstick checking. :banghead:

Looks like if I decide to push forward, I'll be making yet ANOTHER order with TE. I'm going to need clutches, and possibly a new band. I honestly have no idea what to do anymore, as of this morning I was hell bent on parting everything out, sigh.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

So it looks like I'm sticking with the car for a bit longer. The wife is making picking a hotrod project a HUGE pain in the dick. SHE wants a 'classic', but our definition differs greatly. I went to see a 65 Ford Galaxie last night, big inline-6, three on the tree manual, no bondo, running and driving. She said she didn't consider it a 'classic'...but of course she's not willing to contribute to the purchase/build of the cars she DOES like (50's land barges with chrome and fins). Arg.

So, since I don't want to deal with that bull**** right now, it's back to the 010'd rabbit . She can't guilt trip me over a car I already have .

Going to get my garage cleaned up and organized, and then I'll pull everything out to swap to my non-blowy ABA bottom end. I'll rebuild the tranny with new clutches and the chromoly turbine shaft too. Might as well! I'm glad I've got spare converters, cause I sure as hell don't want to have to bother with flushing my current one out, ugh.


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

yay!


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

glad you decided to press ahead with the rabbit! on another note your wife doesnt have any taste in hot rods!


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

Last week I Finally got the balls to shift the transmission at WOT and full boost.
I`m happy to say that the shaft did not break, so it`s time to go to the track again!


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

A2TDI said:


> your wife doesnt have any taste in hot rods!


 I sez pardon? 

Still waiting on videooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo:banghead: 

I need it!


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

nothing new? Im still waiting on engine parts! Dcor hows the racing going i wanna hear about some passes!


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

A2TDI said:


> Dcor hows the racing going i wanna hear about some passes!


We haven't made any passes since early June. It's been hotter than hell here so we're just sitting in the shade drinking beer for now.

We got the diff sorted and the boost control figured out so we hope to make it out when it cools down a bit.

For you east-coast guys, our goal for the season is to make it to the Pittsburgh classic in September. Try to make it out!


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I finally have all my engine parts, and the block and head are out getting machined so hopefully I can get everything back by next friday!


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

Any updates? I need a little kick to finish my car....


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

We ran our dragcar with the 010 just last weekend in the test-and-tune lane of Black Sunday (put together by the United Black Dragracers assoc.). Great guys, awesome cars, amazing food and a hell of a lot of fun. Our goal was to increase the boost slowly and track the changes so we started around 23 psi and eased up to around 26. We started seeing a "miss" in the ignition and the staging lanes were long so we packed up our shizzy and went home.

The tranny worked without hesitation. It took aggressive burnouts, shifts under boost, moving around the pits and never gave us as much as a hiccup.

Build the box. You'll love it.


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

Hello Dave,

Good to hear your automatic is also working very well.
mine is also working great, at the moment i`m strugling with the diff-converter combination.
At the moment i`m testing the 3,13 diff with 23" tires but in 3e gear the converter starts to slip to much. this is to much gear
did you ever calculate how much rpm your converter is slipping under full load in 3e gear? mine is slipping around 900 rpm. is this within a normal range, or is it way to much?
I'm building another final drive section to swap the 3,13 to 3,57 or maybe the 3,41. which final drive are you guys using? if you don`t mind sharing.

Greetings,

martijn.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I am running the 3.76 diff welded i believe its from a 80's rabbit ( golf in europe)


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

A2TDI said:


> I am running the 3.76 diff welded i believe its from a 80's rabbit ( golf in europe)


which tire size do you use? and what`s your trap speed at the 1/4 mile?


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

Martijn- I have no idea what kind of slip we're getting in the TC. We never tried to find out. 

Just for discussions sake, we're on a 3.57 R&P on a 205-60/13 M&H dot that is 22.8 diameter.

The car ran a best ET of 11.439 (126.20 mph) and the best trap was 131.01 mph (11.600). We were on about 23 pounds of boost before we had ignition gremlins. Our best ET with these tires before was 10.98 so we're really not that far off from the times on the manual. It is far off from out mid-to-low 10 second passes with slicks from a few years ago but we're developing the 010 and trying to gather significant data.

Also, the LSD is looking promising. Based on tire temps at the burnout, I'm seeing only about an 87% differentiation between the drive wheels and the environment last weekend wasn't ideal for data collection........but it's a start.

dave....


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

thanks for sharing the info.
I was hitting the rev limiter on top end with that tire diff combo, but maybe my converter is slipping more compared to yours.

and LSD??? how did you make that?

gr martijn


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

IPT did ours. They "did everything they could do to a stock one". The next step is a smaller aftermarket unit.

The LSD will remain on the down-low until the end of the seson. If it works, I'll let everyone know about it.:thumbup:


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I have 22 inch m/t et drag slicks...unfortunately i have made a pass yet with the 010....do you fellas know the weight on your car? my car is roughly making 380 whp and im just wondering what times that will get me....hoping for high 11s??


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

I never put the car on scale but i think it`s around 1000kg that`s around 2200 lbs without me in it.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

So im shipping my torque converter out to Sinister Speed converters. They usually build crazy race converters for dsm's that run in the low 8 second range, so I have asked them to give me as much stall as possible out a stock vw converter.


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

Ours stalls at about 4500rpm.


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

DCor said:


> Ours stalls at about 4500rpm.


 Dave, do you reach this rpm when you floor the throttle or do you hold it against the brake`s to reacht this?


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

Footbrake. We have a softer launch than the manual box but the tradeoff comes down the track. We're still testing, though. This could change as we bring more boost in the tune.


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## mk1 obsessed (Mar 17, 2010)

*fluid*

sorry guys, for jumping way back
but allison transmission has there own tranny fluid its called transsynd. fully synthectic and made by castrol
its 25 dollars a gallon, but i find its the best.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I run atf +4 chrysler fluid because it has alot of anti foaming agents. The new torque converter stalls at 4000 rpm and is just as streetable as a stock torque converter. i can build all 26 psi on the foot brake and do one hell of a 3 gear burnout. last night I took a friend out for a ride and started to brake boost it from a stop and got it up to 18psi and snapped both fron axles at the same time


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

did you get some spares installed in time to head to the track today?


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I headed to the track on sunday and........

[email protected] mph 

car specs..

90 vw 4 door jetta
2360 lbs (full tank of gas)
2L 20 valve
AEB cyl head ported with supertech valvetrain
HX35 turbo with ported exhaust turbine
sinister speed 4000 rpm stall torque converter
010 trans with all of the audi 4 pinion guts and all the transaxle engineering stuff
stock axles
MT 22x8x13 slicks
B&M pro ratchet shifter
megasquirt ecu

only at 25 psi and its running very rich lots more boost and lots more tuning to do!


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

first pass for the 2.0l 010 on 14 psi boost

enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/user/GuelphRacing#p/u/6/ERk28E8IJGg


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Here's how I modified a Seat hi-torque starter to fit behind an 010 with an 06A 20v block in a Mk1 for a customer (and good mate) here...

It had to throw out an additional 14mm and the shaft also had to be shortened.

You'll notice the "mud map" on a piece of card board i was using. This is what you do when you're measuring stuff up 800km away from your workshop..


















































The link to the Facebook album with brief descriptions attached on the pics is here: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.167716786637348.43188.101833679892326&type=1

Cheers. 



A2TDI said:


> I headed to the track on sunday and........
> 
> [email protected] mph
> 
> ...


Well done, mate! That's VERY promising!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I hope you guys realize this thread really makes me regret a few things. I'm super stoked to have been a part of the birth of the use of these boxes for more than doorstops, but I may finally have found a buyer for my TE stuff . They'll take it waaaaaaaaay further than I ever could, so it's not really a bad thing...but I really miss this crowd. It's nice to be involved in a thead that's all about sharing and furthering the cause, instead of 'scene points', tuck/poke, and one-upping.

My rabbit currently sits, untouched, without management or turbo, sporting a 4 speed manual gearbox. It's pushed into the corner behind my 1954 Plymouth Coupe project...slant 6 swap, built 904 automatic, and a little bit of forced induction .


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

B4S said:


> I hope you guys realize this thread really makes me regret a few things. I'm super stoked to have been a part of the birth of the use of these boxes for more than doorstops, but I may finally have found a buyer for my TE stuff . They'll take it waaaaaaaaay further than I ever could, so it's not really a bad thing...but I really miss this crowd. It's nice to be involved in a thead that's all about sharing and furthering the cause, instead of 'scene points', tuck/poke, and one-upping.
> 
> My rabbit currently sits, untouched, without management or turbo, sporting a 4 speed manual gearbox. It's pushed into the corner behind my 1954 Plymouth Coupe project...slant 6 swap, built 904 automatic, and a little bit of forced induction .


 
the only way out is in a body bag. :sly:


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

wantacad said:


> the only way out is in a body bag. :sly:


:sly:


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

Use a CIS system with an audi or volvo turbo control pressure regulator. simple, reliable, effective, and cheap!


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

ok so since this thread is suppose to be for experience and what not I will share some.Late in this year I picked up a torque converter from sinister speed, I had a 3.42 final drive gear set and thengine would stall at 4100 rpm. Later after a few foolish 3 gear street burnouts i felt like i had hurt something in the final drive unit due to the whinning noise it now produced. So I pulled the transmission out and shoved in a 3.76 final drive out of an okd rabbit and the engine would stall roughly at 3000 rpm....so I later talked to a fellow at a speed shop near me and cleared everything up. he said the lower the gear you have in your final drive the lower your stall speed....i was like WTF DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH STALL SPEED! turns out the more leverage (3.76) you have going towards the wheels the less you will be able to hold the car back on the foot brake,because of the brakes not being able to stop the torque. with the 3.76 ring and pinion and a 22 inch slick I ran the car to a best of 12.05 at 117.5. Now I have since changed the car back to a 3.42 final drive and im now able to build 22psi on the foot brake. gears and converters are a funny thing to mess around with and im learning as I go. I hope that this ramble can help someone and if you guys have any further questions please ask!


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

in this video is myself in the red jetta and rabbit6 in the gray rabbit drag racing...yes Rabbit6 still live in china! He was here on a thanksgiving vacation to see his family!

Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/user/6tibbar#p/u/4/yfD5OaFFZXU


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

Nice..:thumbup:


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## Noodleboy (Mar 2, 2006)

Stupid question. But will an 010 fit/bolt to a 16v 2.0 block??


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

Noodleboy said:


> Stupid question. But will an 010 fit/bolt to a 16v 2.0 block??


 bolts up just fine


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## Noodleboy (Mar 2, 2006)

Sweet. I really want to do a 16v on r1 carbs.


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## oneunder (Mar 31, 2009)

I have a question regarding stall converters.

Currently, I have an 89 Cabby with the stock CIS management. Over the winter I plan on putting the 2.0l aba bottom end in the car, and keeping the the CIS (with a retro fitted knock box setup). While I was doing that, getting the head machine, and putting in a cam was on the list. Possibly a 270.

Would that be to much for the stock converter?

I am a real newb with the auto technicalities and philosophy.

Thanks, you guys are awesome.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Think of the converter like a fluid clutch, basically. As the RPMs rise from idle, and the converter spins faster, the ATF is compressed against the inner/outer vanes inside the converter. The fluid eventually reaches the point where further compression is impossible, and the energy is transferred to the drive wheels. This duration of compression is called the 'stall' of the converter. The stock stall is ~2200-2500 rpm, so you can sit with a foot on the brake and the other foot with the gas pedal to the floor, and the car will rev at the stall speed (and you'll feel it pushing against the brake) until you release the brakes.

Long explanation for a simple question, but it's important to know how the converter works in order to answer the question simply . Since there are no friction areas in the converter (like a traditional clutch/pp/flywheel), there's nothing to break (although it is possible, it will take a LOT more torque than a VW engine can produce  ).

So, finally, the answer, lol:
The converter will be perfectly fine. If the tranny starts to slip or misbehave, you can be certain it's not converter related .


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## oneunder (Mar 31, 2009)

Excellent.

I have tried reading up on some of that stuff, but your explanation makes a whole lot more sense then what I have read so far.

When I pull the motor, is there some maintencae on the trans that I should do. The car has unknown amount of miles. When I got it, the fluid was low. I added more, and drove it all summer. It does leak around the pan seal (from what I can tell). I have swapped that out for a new rubber on, and put in a new filter, but the seal still leaks. I have torqued to spec, and tried tighten and loosening the bolts with not help. From what I can see the fluid is not coming out from around the filler neck.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

on a side note i sheared all of my torque converter bolt while attempting a pass on the highway...time to re drill and use a 3/8 arp bolt.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I've been gone for a bit, bought a car, attempted to put my VW to the side, cleaned the garage, threw away all my spare 010s (yeah...facktard move :banghead: )...and then started to feel better. Decided to take a peek at the only VW engine I kept after the purge. I've apparently been sitting on a FRESHLY rebuilt 2.0 16v (seriously, dipped and painted), oldschool pre-ebay T3/T4e (50 A/R coldside, .48 hot), Porsche turbo external gate, stainless manifold, and 3" DP.

I got pretty down after my 010 started mixing gear oil and ATF, maybe I'll start poking at it, since I haven't sold the parts yet. 

A2TDI: How are you planning on getting around the problem of the stupid small converter bolt heads? There's not much room there to play with.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

sounds like you have a small gold mine sitting there! Im just going to drill and tap the holes to a 3/8 fine thread then cut down the small block chevy ARP flexplate bolts to fit. next year I may go a bit further with the power department maybe a little bit of nitrous and water meth injection and higher boost! im too cheap to buy a better turbo and i believe there is still more power in this holset.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Started tearing down the 010 tonight. The pump drive shaft is scored HORRIBLY, but the turbine shaft is fine. Same goes for the inside of the pinion/stator support tube, smooth and fine. Hmm.

The gear oil level is LOW, so I don't think they mixed at all. It's easily still within stock level limits, and the ATF is still reddish (just smells really burnt). I'm going to dig a bit deeper and overhaul the box as best I can though. It's draining now, so I don't know what I need yet, but I will probably be ordering some clutches from TE, possibly a new band too, depending on condition.

A trick sometimes used is to weld extra pads on the converter. There's a ton of room for new bolts on the flexplate, maybe 6 pads would be something to think about, lol.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Upon closer inspection...yep, it mixed. Gear oil is way below where it should be, and the pinion support seals are old and brittle. The O-ring is loose too, sigh.

All this trouble because I was too lazy to change those seals .

Anyone know the best way to flush a converter? I'm tempted to drill a hole and tap it for a plug, like the Fords have.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Sigh again.
Now I'm not sure it mixed, because the diff isn't pressurized, so the ATF would obviously have flowed into the gear oil area...raising the level a lot. There's always been a slight seep/misting at the rear cover, but definitely not enough to drain it as far as it is...especially since the floor would be covered with fluid if that was the case. It's bone dry under where it's been sitting for the past couple of months. Arg.

Compounding all of this is the fact that I used Royal Purple gear oil, so it's already a bit reddish. 

I've decided to send the converter off for flushing/rebuild, just in case. It'll be ~300-400 bucks, but better safe than sorry I guess. I've got a local place (Fireball automatics), so I'll skip out early one day and bring it to them. Now I just have to call TE and order new clutches and a band. I'd love to stay on stock clutches, but I have no idea how long they'd last. My current ones didn't last long...but they were all old, used ones :laugh: .


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

Just for the sake of discussion, I wanted to point out that the only reason that we're using an 010 is because the motor makes 500+ whp and it kept ripping the teeth off third gear in our 02A. If we were anything less than 400 whp, I'd still be on a manual box. Hell, our 020 took up to 300 whp and it's really light, cheap and parts are plentiful compared to the 02A and 010.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I also plan on running around 500 hp I changed because the quick shifting really helps chop down e.t's and also had problems breaking gears and problems shifting at high rpms. I want to make moaaaar power and eventually reach high 10s. everything I have been breaking has been my fault. And just a little side note the torque converter that comes on the audi 5000 turbo front wheel drive comes with a 4 pad torque converter that is the same as our regular front drive ones>


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Nice, I wonder if the flexplate would work too.

Got a quote on fixing my converter...$400 to have it cut open and cleaned out. That's not re-stalling it either, didn't ask. Darnit .


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

send your converter to sinister speed converters! they rebuilt mine and restalled for 400 shipped lol


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I want to use my 010 so badly...building an ABA/16vT currently...and last year's tranny implosion (gear oil/atf mixing incident) has got my confidence shaken. I hate the idea of building it back up (at substantial cost, needs all new clutches and a band from TE) only to see it slip itself away again because I daily drove it too much.

Convince me I'm nuts...dammit I've been living/breathing/sleeping these things for years and now I'm hesitating, lol. ARRRRRRRRGH! :banghead::laugh:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Awesome. My idiocy strikes again. Tore the box down tonight...and quickly realized that I really needed one of the spare 010s I threw away last month .

The direct drum was the issue, and it's a stupid one. I'm using the wave-style spring on the piston instead of the multi-spring type that's in some boxes. When I pulled the drum apart, the spring had completely flipped around (if that makes sense). There was nothing to push the piston back into the drum...so the pressure being applied on the direct drum was minimal. This caused a lot of heat and slippage. The clutches and steels all need to be replaced...but there was no gear oil in the ATF!  

There's also an Audi 5000 turbo automatic within reach, I might just go for that instead of rebuilding mine. It would give me a chance to start off fresh, since I feel one of my experimental mods is to blame, lol.

HUZZAH!

[edit] Yep, it's my fault. The wave spring piston retainer I used requires a slightly concave pressure plate...and I used a regular flat steel. Darnit. It's only $33 online though, and Porsche uses that exact same spring retainer in the 944 autos. Hmm...


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ok, so I know what part I need to fix my box. I had this part, and a bunch more just like it...but I threw everything away last month in a fit of COLOSSAL stupidity. So I call VW to order the part, which still exists on their books. GREAT!

NOT! They don't show a single one anywhere in the world. Fabulous. So now, I need to find a parts transmission, or start over with something else. I'm an idiot. :banghead:


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

you should pick up that audi box rebuild it with new clutches, change the 4 studs that hold the bell housing on,change the fron cover that drives the governor (this is a must), punch out the block off plug for the dipstick and throw in the fwd dipstick and your golden. just make sure you order the clutches for the audi because they are different.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm going to try to get the box tomorrow morning, before work. I'll call in saying I'll be a little late, lol. I've heard you can remove the transaxle portion from under the car, without removing the engine/transmission. Should just be the four nuts and some cut cables, fingers crossed.

A refreshed Audi turbo box, with the larger direct drum and cooler ports, should be perfect .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yeah...removing it from underneath is no easier than cutting the front clip off with a plastic butter knife. I had to abandon the job, after 5 or 6 hours in the rain, because there was some exhaust in the way and I couldn't get the box far enough back off the turbine shaft. I'm going back as soon as I can, hopefully tomorrow afternoon.

I had to drop the subframe, undo the tranny mounts (from the box), undo the strut tower bolts, cut things, bend things, sacrifice small mammals, eat a few spoonfuls of wasabi, and a few things I'm not proud of (and never want to talk about). It's almost mine though, MUAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh yeah, there's one stud that can't be undone properly without a stubby 13mm, and of course I didn't have one. 1/8th of a turn at a time, and of course, the stud comes out too, instead of just the nut coming undone. Took FOREVER.


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

B4S said:


> Yeah...removing it from underneath is no easier than cutting the front clip off with a plastic butter knife. I had to abandon the job, after 5 or 6 hours in the rain, because there was some exhaust in the way and I couldn't get the box far enough back off the turbine shaft. I'm going back as soon as I can, hopefully tomorrow afternoon.
> 
> I had to drop the subframe, undo the tranny mounts (from the box), undo the strut tower bolts, cut things, bend things, sacrifice small mammals, eat a few spoonfuls of wasabi, and a few things I'm not proud of (and never want to talk about). It's almost mine though, MUAHAHAHAHAHA.
> 
> Oh yeah, there's one stud that can't be undone properly without a stubby 13mm, and of course I didn't have one. 1/8th of a turn at a time, and of course, the stud comes out too, instead of just the nut coming undone. Took FOREVER.


squeal like a pig?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

More like cry like a baby. I've got some pretty banged up pre-arthritic wrists (a couple decades of skateboarding), and it got so bad that I couldn't feel my hands. F**k stopping though, pain is just a reminder that you want something REALLY badly :laugh: .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got it! 
Yeah, I recommend to anyone into this sort of thing to find an Audi 5000T box. I've done a teardown on it already and DAMN, it just looks tough. The thrust washer between the front cover and the forward drum is brass, instead of plastic. The 4 pinion planetaries are just mean looking, and there are 5 clutches in the forward drum already. I regret not listening to everyone's advice sooner. The Mk2 box is good, but the 5000T box is better!

I've already swapped over the chromoly pump drive, and will work on the rebuild once I clean the case a bit. The cooler ports are going to hit the Mk1 tranny mount, so it'll have to be modded to allow them to pass. Shouldn't be very hard.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Oh, anyone able to tell me how much Jeff sells the uprated clutches for? I want to call on Monday, but don't want to get caught out on the pricing. I'm also tempted to look into the laser cut arm and TE shifter.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

Chad,
You're a rubber ball. Glad to see you careening back this way again... for now...?

You must have been in really dark times if you _threw away_, not *gave* away 010 spares.:facepalm:

Anyway, I have some good news. See the post below.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

So as Jeff mentioned, I'm back in China (sigh) and spent my first week in Shanghai at a trade show.
Lo and behold, tucked--no, _hidden_ amongst literally 50+ pneumatic fitting booths was this:










and, more notably, THESE:










After quite a long chat with this very interesting fellow, I came away with a firm belief that he is one of the exceedingly rare non-western managed (not trying to set a stereotype or bias here, this is simply based on personal observation thus far-- which has made me a VERY skeptical person) companies that is acually making a quality product.
To the point. 
This fellow takes a personal interest in performance automotive products, though his bread and butter is the high volume stuff like truck brake pads and the like.
So he has 4 different levels of performance friction clutch (wet or dry) material above the regular heavy duty stuff, and can apply it to just about anything. He also has performance brake compounds.
So I'm trying to find someone willing to send me a set of all shapes and sizes in frictions and steels and 2nd gear bands for both the VW and audi 5KT 010's for him to copy. While at it, a 210mm 020 and a 228mm 02A disc would also be useful, but for our purposes in this thread, the auto stuff alone would suffice.
Pricing has yet to be determined, but we can be guaranteed it'll be significantly cheaper than (and I quote) "forward clutch and direct clutch (min qty 30 plates) $51.78 USD each." from Raybestos for applying their performance compound to 010 parts.
Naturally, I'm going to contact TE about this as well, but I'm sure the 010 brothas on here would far rather buying direct than buying from a vendor, no?

Can I have a tally of who may be interested in this?

Dzai Jian!


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

oh yeah, and here are some autocross videos from last month. 
84 rabbit , turbo G60, *010 AUTOMATIC* eace:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC93Pcp0EKY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsPa9tZuPjo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxjeJVTjcE8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKn2Oq0crh8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP2gyrEBOrs



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T91geLdJQk



The auto performed flawlessly. This particular box has the peloquin 80% kit (modestly helpful) and govenor mods only. I select 2nd gear, allow it to upshift into 2nd when it wants and do not hit the kickdown so it stays in 2nd the whole time. With a small turbo g60 engine, there's enough torque to pull hard from low RPM in 2nd, and it works quite well. If I were running a n/a engine, i'd probably kick it down in when at low rpm as the govenor mod allows fairly rapid upshifting.
A wild WILD day, and the old wabbit kicked PLENTY of BMW ass. I had so much fun. If only I had a limited slip differential....


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Rabbit6 said:


> So as Jeff mentioned, I'm back in China (sigh) and spent my first week in Shanghai at a trade show.
> Lo and behold, tucked--no, _hidden_ amongst literally 50+ pneumatic fitting booths was this:
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I know...my brain is made of superball material :laugh:. I realized the 54 Plymouth just wasn't my thing, and the time away from VWs did me good. 

The brake bands are the same, whether 010 or 087, as are the forward clutches/steels. The only different ones are the direct clutches. I am going to be upgrading mine (or at least rebuilding), so I can send you everything if you want. It'll be used, if that's ok. I can try to brake-clean them up and get all the ATF off. This is awesome news, and while I may change my mind a few times between now and spring, I'd love to donate the parts needed to add more to the 010 performance stable .


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

Sweet. Brake clean would be good, the postal service doesn't like boxes with oil stains!
The only other thing would be I'd need to know the thickness of the new plate, and pics of them showing the directions of the little grooves, if the old ones are worn off. I'd like Audi and VW plates, if you've got both. Lemme know when you've got them all rounded up.
Welcome back, thread daddy!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Just got a quote from Jeff at TE for all the clutches, steels, and flame-cut shifter arm. Comes in at under $200 for everything, including shipping. Now I need to dig up some money :laugh:.

It's been said before, and it should be said again: Jeff at Transaxle Engineering is a hell of a nice guy to deal with. Especially considering his target market isn't FWD cars. Two thumbs up for TE! :thumbup: :beer: eace:


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## oneunder (Mar 31, 2009)

Less than 2 bills for the rebuilt?

Thats a hell of a deal.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

In this case, it's less of a rebuild and more of an overhaul, since I'm starting over with the Audi 087/010 box. I'm going to scavenge the new parts from my old box, and swap them into the new one. Still, there isn't really much to rebuild, even when they die. When an automatic starts to slip, people cry and moan that the box is pooched, and throw it away. $40 worth of clutches, and 30 minutes later you've usually got a box that will shift great for years to come.

There are some $$$ parts in the box, like the little piston rings on the turbine shaft. Don't break those things (they're made of glass it seems), cause two of them will cost you $70 CAD. Ask me how I know .


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## oneunder (Mar 31, 2009)

I really have no clue about the 010, but am trying to read on it. 

The car has 1xx,000 miles on it....it doesn't seem like things are slipping, but I honestly really have no idea what a good vs slightly bad one feels like.

I am pulling the motor trans over the winter to put the ABA bottom end in, and was thinking of rebuilding the trans while I was at it. I just dont know where to start.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Basically, if you can achieve forward momentum, you're 50% to having a box in good shape, lol. A slipping auto feels exactly like a manual does, when the clutch starts to go. Pedal movement only results in RPMs, and very little movement. Another sign to needing an overhaul is that instead of shifting reasonably quickly between gears, the RPMs flare up, before settling down to a normal pace. If you've got none of those, you're at 99% :thumbup:.

The last 1% is the dreaded "ATF/Gear oil mixing". It's an unknown, because unless you change the seals yourself, you'll never know what condition they're in. There's three that should be changed, but it seems only two are still available (as I'm discovering now). Going to do a bit of research tonight on that.

If the box doesn't slip, or flare, shifts fine, and the ATF smells/looks ok, chances are you've got a decent one that isn't in any danger of dying. They're simple to disassemble, but it's critically important to make sure everything goes back in the way it came out (obviously). Even the clutches have a specific orientation. I had never taken an auto apart before the 010, but it's only intimidating once :thumbup:. The only real things to change in a basic overhaul are the clutches, and the brake band, IMO. There are a few gaskets and O-rings as well, but they're self-evident. When you'll see them, you'll know. I never pull the brake band piston out, just undo the tightener and slip the band out of the case.


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## oneunder (Mar 31, 2009)

I think the fluid smells burnt...or at least it smells different from new fluid. 

The thing leaks like no other, and I cant get it to stop. I am 99% sure it is coming from the pan gasket. I replaced the gasket when I got it, torquing to the correct specs didn't work, and I have tried making it tighter and looser with zero results. 

But it moves, and the 1-2 shift is great, 2-3 is a little slow. It gets higher in the range, and I guess you could say it flares up, then drops back into 3rd. But I don't know if it is just trying to get more out of the engine, or the trans


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

B4S said:


> The last 1% is the dreaded "ATF/Gear oil mixing". It's an unknown, because unless you change the seals yourself, you'll never know what condition they're in. There's three that should be changed, but it seems only two are still available (as I'm discovering now). Going to do a bit of research tonight on that.


Rockauto.com, $5 each . Ordered, and already on the way! Gotta love Rockauto! The third one is an o-ring and it's $6 at the local VW dealer, so I'll get it locally.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

*Peloquin Limited Slip differentials*

Howdy volks,

So I just got off the horn with Gary Peloquin, who I'm sure you all know is the mastermind behind Peloquin Torsen limited slip differentials.
In a nutshell, he said he'd be willing to make a run of LSD's for our beloved 010 automatics if we could drum up a minimum order of 15. In this case, they'd be between $800 and $900 which would actually put it on par with the cost of their cheapest model-- the 020 unit.

Admittedly, 800 bux isn't readily found under the average couch cushion, but the benefits of a torsen-equipped vehicle are undeniable. I've daily driven and autocrossed one for several years and will never go back to an open diff again. Imagine having one wheel on snow, (or wet centerline for you southerners) and one wheel on dry. With torsen, the car accelerates as though both wheels on dry, because the torque is transferred smoothly to the wheel with the traction. 
In straight line acceleration (drag racing!) this equates to both wheels receiving equal torque until one breaks loose, then the other wheel gets it all until it balances out again. The benefits of a solid diff without the problems, basically.
Autocrossing, power is directed to the outside wheel, which tightens up the corner markedly. 
Torsens need to have a little bit of reactive torque to work properly. One wheel completely in the air will prevent it from operating. The solution? Peloquin's 80% kit. This increases the preload on the springs behind the drive flanges and provides that reactive torque even if one wheel is in the air, allowing the remaining ground-bound wheel to do the driving. Older 010's can be updated with newer 010 parts to install these spring-type drive flanges and allow the 80% kit installation.

Anyone interested? No rush, just want to see if we can fill the 15 order in the next year or so..


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I could be interested, but I'm currently on a spring-free 90mm flange setup, so I'd have to do a bit more work. The 100mm axle swap is a pain .

I also have a bad habit of saying I'm in, when I'm not in...so I'd have to save up first. Good job on the peloquin hookup dude!


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

Let me clarify,

you can stick with your 90mm flanges. You just have to update to the newer 90mm sprung-flange setup IF you want to incorporate the 80% kit as well as the diff. 

I gleefully autocrossed for 2 years with the diff only, and put the 80% kit in just because i had it lying around. 
Repeat, the 80% kit only helps the diff if you have one drive wheel off the ground.
For 99% of even the hardest street driving, and most autocrossing, this simply isn't going to happen. Your front outside tire will scrub before it can generate enough traction to lift the inside front wheel off the ground.

Installing the diff alone even with unsprung flanges is still a huge difference.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hmm, well, if I could run the Peloquin LSD and retain my unsprung flanges, that would ROCK . I went through a lot of trouble finding the proper (NLA) seals for the unsprung swap (since the box was 100mm, my axles were 90, and I had no sprung 90s kicking around  ), and would like to get my money's worth, lol.

Plus, I'm a drag racer, so anything that gets a wheel up off the ground is very bad news .


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

for the record im running 90mm axles in my 12 second jetta with no issues.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I've always run 90s, haven't broken a single one yet either. I'd like to stay 90 on the 010 in order to have the clearance to reinforce the diff cup if need be. I'm using the 100mm flange final drive section from a TNA box, so am stuck with the pressed-steel cup instead of the nice aluminum one from my EQ Rabbit box (which is probably stronger since it's thicker). If it gets to the point of stripping ring gears, like vwtunernl did, there's room to weld .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Wh00t, my pinion support seals are in. Just ordered two of the required O-rings (only need one, but 'just in case'...), and will be placing my order for all the steels/clutches (as well as the 'shark fin' shifter lever arm so I can keep my QuarterStick shifter, my current one leaks and is hideous) from TE on wed or thurs. 

If anyone is interested, on the 5000T boxes, the cooler ports are 12mm x 1.5 thread pitch. Aeroquip makes a nice banjo bolt/fitting with a -6 AN outlet that fits it perfectly.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I love Rockauto.com. I ordered an 087/010 rebuild kit for my Audi box on thursday of last week, and it's already in. It had to come across the border into Canadia too, so I'm SUPER impressed with the shipping they use. I might be able to get the box rebuilt this weekend, and I'll try to snap some pics of the major differences between the VW and Audi boxes, for reference's sake.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Fml...the kit has the 4.75" direct clutches/steels . I have no patience or budget left to build this box. I can't find the right stuff anywhere. I might put the 4.75" direct from my TNA in this case, grrr.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Not to mention they only sent 4 forward clutches :banghead:.

All is not lost though! The piston-ring style seals that go on the turbine shaft were included! These little things are worth $35 each at the dealer! That's the cost of the entire kit, lol. 

So now I have to track down the proper clutches and steels, although it's still within spec if I were to re-use all the stuff that's there .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Turns out the direct drum is on the tight side of spec, so I'm just going to re-use what's there. This is the type of decision that will bite me on the ass...but ah well.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

if i remember right my forward clutch only has 4 clutch discs....


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'll double check tonight, but I could have sworn I counted 5 when I stripped it down. The direct is def 4...and they are thick buggers too.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yep, 5 clutches. I didn't get the code off the box before I separated the two parts, but according to ETKA, all the 5000T boxes had 5 forward/4 direct. Some of the non turbo boxes came with 4 forward/4 direct, but that seems to be pre-87.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Reassembling the Audi box currently and I've hit a snag. The end play in the forward drum is supposed to be between 0.020" and 0.035", and mine is 0.011". Sounds straight forward doesn't it, but it's not quite. I'm building it in the garage, and it's kinda cold out there now, so the ATF is pretty thick. I'm wondering what the actual clearance would be when the ATF is warm. Not sure what to do, cause if I bring the drum into the house...I risk beheading by the wife, lol. She'll smell it somehow, she always does. I don't know if I should track down a thinner pressure plate; find a way to warm it up and measure again; or just leave it. I have no problems leaving it tight...but this sort of guesswork is what forced me to get another transmission in the first place, lol.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

Chad,
my thinking: try assembling the clutch pack dry at the same temp. If it's still tight, the fluid doesn't play a role. Alternately, get a camp stove and an old pot and warm up a quantity of fluid to make clutch drum soup. When the fluid and parts are at the temp you want, (don't use your wife's thermometer) check the measurements then and see what gives. If still too tight, give jeff at ransaxle a call. When I was dealing with him last year, he sold Jeff and I resurfaced steels. If you learn exactly what that resurfacing process is, you can maybe find someone local to do it properly or send your steels to Jeff to have an appropriate amount of material removed to give you the clearances you need. Or, maybe he has some other words of wisdom regarding your conunDRUM. (Now THAT is some sweet mf'ing humor right there nyuknyuknyuk! I tell you folks, I just flew in and man, are my arms tired! badaboom tssss!)


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Great minds think alike it seems . I brought the drum inside last night (wife didn't say a word  ) to warm up and I'll measure it again today. I'll also put it back out in the garage overnight, strip it back down, and reassemble it with the original steels and clutches, and see what it gives me. I should have done this before I took it apart, but I guess I wasn't thinking. I think the fluid plays a role, because if I press down on the drum, I can compress it a fair bit. When released, it comes back up on it's own.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, the temp plays a minor role. It was at 0.012". With the old steels and the new clutches it was at 0.015". With all the old stuff it was 0.025"...so I reassembled it with the old stuff and am calling it a day, lol. I'd need to order a new upper pressure plate in order to get it to the right end play...and I'm just not that non-ghetto . At least this box will have a STOCK rebuild on it, with none of my failmods, so if it slips...then I know EXACTLY what to fix, lol.

Anyway, the internals are done now. I have to check the endplay of the transaxle and final drive sections, and swap in the manual VB from the other box. I'm going to order the shifter lever arm from Jeff at TA too, so I can keep using my Hurst shifter. The one I made last year is nasty looking, bleck.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I believe fluid does change your measurements but atf doesnt get thicker or thinner with temp change.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Could be. Maybe it just flowed out overnight. That 0.001" is more likely due to the margin of error on the gauge.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Sweet, no shim required between the final drive and transaxle. I measured three times to make sure, and it averaged out to 'no shim' .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Fack. Pulled the old box apart tonight, to get the shift lever and valve body...and found a ton of metal/fiber in the filter and pan. The ATF is full of metal, which means my converter is undoubtedly full of crap. I wasn't planning on having it re-stalled due to the fact that I'm tired of spending on this friggin car. Not sure what I'm going to do yet.


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## sgjii (Nov 14, 2010)

*1.8L 16V with 010 Automatic in Scirocco MK1?*

I spent the last few hours pouring over this thread. Wow and thanks for all the 010 knowledge, I am no longer scared of Automatic 010 VW transmissions.

I am actually starting a MK1 1980 Scirocco project and it has an automatic instead of a stick. An automatic was much more a rarity and oddball in MK1 Sciroccos. The car started as an automatic but now no engine or tranny, just a shell. Also the auto shifter and cable were removed so I would need to source that as well.

One of my early VW experiences was a 1977 Scirocco with a 1.6L and Automatic at apx. 74HP. It was definitely a dog but comfortable to drive. I ended up with a sheared flex plate from being a stupid teenager (20yrs ago) and slamming it into drive at 3500RPM repeatedly, because I couldn't diagnose a coolant leak shooting water all over the distributor and degraded plug wires. It was the only way I could get the car to start out without dying. The car ended up with a 4speed swap since my brother and I didn't understand anything about the automatic and we had a 4speed parts (from a wreck) and it was no money, just time. 

With that said, I always thought an automatic Scirocco with more HP would be far more sporty and fun to drive but also keep some of that comfort for in town stop and go.

This thread is full of 010 knowledge but it does seem most are interested in drag racing applications but I am in search of info for a daily driver. 

What I would like to build the car with is a 1.8L 16V engine, stock CIS-E w/knock, a header and larger free flowing exhaust. Stock it specs at 124HP iirc and I figure apx. 130HP-ish with the exhaust opened up a little. I am not looking for a race car but a fun nostalgic piece that would get decent fuel economy and not leave me embarrassed at the light by the likes a Geo Metro or Corolla running on 3 cylinders and smoking.

I think I have come to a comfort level from reading the thread, that a stock 010 would handle the HP but I am now concerned about the shift points with a motor that likes a little higher RPMS than its 8V brothers. 

How do the RPMs and power band of the 16V motor affect how the 010 will shift as well as the additional HP? 

It comes down to a recommendation of which 010 box to get and some opinions on how the normally aspirated 1986 16V (which I have already in hand) will cooperate with an 010 for drivability AND what kind of performance I might expect 0-60. The fellows over in the Scirocco forum are great guys but I am definitely getting some, "Why would you ever intentionally mate an 010 Sled-O-Matic to a 16V conversion?" type push back. They are supportive but they think I will have a hard time keeping from getting bird strikes to the rear hatch glass because they think I couldn't out run pigeons if I had to.

I see fondness in the thread for the "TJ" code but the "TNA" codes seems to be more readily available.

Advice/Input???

Stephen


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Welcome aboard! I'm sorry we've ruined your perfectly fine life with our 010 obsessions, but we'll try to make it a comfy stay :laugh:.

The TNA box would be the easiest one to get, but would definitely require stock-sized rubber due to the gearing. The 010 doesn't make for great economy when running small diameter rollers. Even with stock rubber, you'll be at nearly 3000 at 100kph (60mph). The TJ is a one-year Mk2 box (85-87ish) box with a taller final drive, so it would be the best for highway economy, but is REALLY hard to find.

The shift points are easy to modify, but is going to be some experimentation. The governor is on top of the box, under that little 'cap'. It has two weights on it, a long skinny one and a shorter, stubby one. Those weights control the shift points. I used to have a document up that showed how to modify them for raising the shift points, I'll see if I can find it again.

The TNA box is a bit 'tougher' inside than the Mk1 EQ box, and has a taller final drive, so it would be perfect for a 16v. It has 4 clutches in the forward drum, and 4 clutches in the direct drum, vs. the 3/3 of the Mk1 box. This makes for better clamping surface area, which means can hold more power. The 3/3 could hold it easily as well, but the TNA is everywhere, so might as well go for one of those . The next good mod is the Accumulator mod shown earlier in this thread, it'll firm up the 2-3 shift, which is horribly mushy in stock form. Won't detract from the daily driving experience either .

I ran a G60 on a stock EQ box with no issues for two years, so you'll love the 16v on a TNA .


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## sgjii (Nov 14, 2010)

Chad,

Thanks for taking the time to address my questions, it is appreciated.

I don't want to give away all my secrets before I can decide and acquire a TJ box but I am pretty confident that I can get my hands on one easily but likely with about a $500 price tag for a sub 100K mile box. I can get my hands on a TNA box for $200 or less depending on my tolerance for waiting/timing.

It's kind a like the scene in Pulp Fiction; you say the TNA would be a very good choice but is the TJ a "Mad Man"? and would I know where that extra money went? Do people who know the difference come to Chad's house for the TJ "Mad Man"? or would the difference be so subtle that it might not be worth the pain and cash to get one?

I am looking to build a snappy touring Scirocco to make the daily commute more exciting, fuel efficient, and bring joy to the occasional road trip. Mainly Freeway instead of autocross spirited country drives.

I also have a crazy idea and a cheap option on a low mile Cabby with a TNA. I have extra 020 manuals and all the parts to do a swap except for new clutch. I could buy the Cabby, shake out and prove the solidity of the TNA box in it then swap transmissions and resell the Cabby for a profit that would bring me to a net/net of a free 75K mile TNA, OEM shifter, cable and all the little bits and parts plus carry the possibility of making almost $1K if the stars aligned. Who knows, might even fall in love with the Cabby and keep it for a summer or more. Kinda hard to think I would choose the Cabby over the Benz SLK for a Top Down romp but they do serve slightly different purposes... I will likely snag the Cabby either way since the potential is there for a modest profit if I sell a convertible in peak spring vs. crappy winter.

Bottom line, how significant would the difference between TNA and TJ really be in my application, both in drivability and fuel economy?

Stephen


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## sgjii (Nov 14, 2010)

Chad,

Furthering my thoughts that have emerged since I already pressed "Submit" once tonight:

First, the documentation on how to modify the shift points would be great!

Second, your G60 stock engine would have been putting down 158HP, around 25HP more than my current 16V engine plans. You thought the drive was acceptable and the reliability good.

(I used www.zeroto60times.com & www.wikipedia.com for my data) 

To try and mentally compare driving experiences, I looked at some 0-60 specs across Stock 1980 Scirocco MT, 1986 16V Scirocco MT, my 1980 Audi 4000 5cyl AT, 1990 Corrado G60 MT, my 1999 SLK230 MT, my 2000 Buick Regal GS AT, my 1996 Oldsmobile Cutlass Coupe AT and some other things I have owned or at least put a few thousand miles seat time in. 

The 1993 Cabriolet 94HP 8V MT specs at 11.1sec 0-60. When I could find a differentiation between the same VW Auto vs. Manual car, it was apx 2 seconds slower with an auto. For arguments sake lets say the same Cabriolet with a TNA Auto would have a 13.1sec 0-60 and it is likely the source of the TNA for my swap (unless you give me some compelling info/news on the "Mad Man" aspect of a TJ). The Cabby is heavier than my Scirocco by 450lbs (2300lbs vs 1850lbs) and will have apx 40 less HP (94HP vs 135HP).

My base guestimation for 0-60 with my planned 16V & 010 Auto in my 1980 Scirocco would conservatively be 9 seconds. For 0-60 times, the stock 8V Sciroccos through the years are between 10.6 and 11.6 seconds w/MT and a 1986 16V MT coming in at 7.6 seconds and the 1986 16V weighed in comparable to the Cabby at apx 2300lbs.

This is all likely to be mental masturbation and pencil whipping numbers but I am truly thinking a MK1 Scirocco 16V TNA or TJ Automatic car would be faster than most non-heavily modded 8V Sciroccos and not terribly far behind a stock MK2 16V Scirocco.

I also can't help but think that tightening the 2-3 shift with the suggested mod would only improve 0-60 time as would potential tweaking of the shift points.

Please sound the BullSh*t alarm if you think I am out in left field with this thought process.

Stephen


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

sgjii said:


> Bottom line, how significant would the difference between TNA and TJ really be in my application, both in drivability and fuel economy?
> 
> Stephen


Well, going off the gear ratios listed here: http://techtonicstuning.com/TransRatios.html, one can see that the 1-2-3 gears are identical between the TNA and TJ boxes. The final drive is different though, which will bump up the 'length' between gears (raising the MPH per gear). It will result in a much more fuel-economy-friendly highway cruising RPM, if the gear calculator at www.scirocco.org/gears is correct. At 60mph (I'm a canuck, and our highway speed is 100kph, which is 62mph, so I'
m using 60 as a base for the example), the TNA will be turning 3024 RPM with 185/60/14 tires. The TJ will be turning 2767 RPM with the same rubber. ~300 RPM less can equate a few MPG, if the car is in a good state of tune, so it's really up to driver preference. 

I've never driven a TJ box to know how the taller final affects the snappiness of the car, so I can only base my suggestion on the math of it all. If I was going to do a lot of highway driving, TJ all the way. If it was a mix of driving, TNA. This is of course based on a perfect world where TJs grow on trees, lol . For most of us, the TNA is the only option, so if you can get a TJ, get it anyway :laugh:.

I expect tightening up the 2-3 shift will make a HUGE difference in the 0-60 times, placing an 010-based car much closer to it's 020 counterpart. I run a manual valve body, so again, I can't say for sure. Rabbit6 is the pioneer of the accumulator mod/delete, so perhaps he can shed a bit of light. He's said it works really well though .


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## sgjii (Nov 14, 2010)

OK, TJ it is since I am wanting a Touring car not a race car.

A little off topic for 010 Transmission but:

One piece of me says use my 16V motor because I will likely have the only one mated to an automatic in an A1 chassis and I like being unique 

Another part of me thinks that a Big Valve 8V head & cam over a 1.8L or even a 2.0L 3A block might be better for low end torque but I am unsure what it will take to get up to the same kind of HP as the 1.8L 16V is offering me.

HP or Torque? Torque or HP? Tomato or Tomatoe? Left or Right?

Stephen


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Honestly, I'd stick with the 16v. The torque converter will help with any potential low-end torque issues, since it's job is to multiply available torque. Check the dyno sheets of any automatic project car (GM, Ford, Dodge, etc) and you'll see they usually always have incredibly incorrect torque numbers below 3000 RPM. That's the torque converter doing it's thing . It won't actually have that crazy torque, but it'll feel pretty good nonetheless. I have a buddy with an automatic turbo Dodge Omni (SOHC, 2.5, stock turbo), and he makes 288 ft/lbs...and 200whp, lol.

Really though, if you compare the 16v and 8v dyno curves, you'll see the low end torque rating is pretty similar. The 16v shines above 4000 though .


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

There's always the 1.8L 16v head on the 2L bottom end trick...


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

This is kind of an exercise in futility. While I appreciate your pencil whipping mental masturbation, I think actual application might be a little less than satisfying.

Under 300 hp, I wouldn't even consider an automatic. The 020 can take the power - they are cheap, plentiful, and much (MUCH) lighter than the 010.

If you're really dead-set on using an automatic, mount up the 16v in it's bone-stock form and just drive it for grins. Any effort to improve performance on either the 16v or the 8v on an automatic could easily be eclipsed by simply changing to an 020. 

This is just my opinion and I'm sure others will disagree but that's ok. It won't hurt my feelings.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I won't disagree. It's very true, from a logic/math standpoint. The 020 is lighter, geared better, and tough enough.

From a neatness standpoint though, the 010/16v setup wins .


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## sgjii (Nov 14, 2010)

All opinions welcome!

If I didn't want input I wouldn't ask. I am also not so thin skinned that I would get offend by having my sanity questioned for wanting an automatic in this application.

Chad, you are right, part of my attraction to the setup 16V/010 is the uniqueness.

Referencing Rabbit6's suggestion, do you mean put the 16V head on an Audi 3A 2.0L block? If so, what kind of performance results on CIS?

I have actually found a salvage yard that has some low mileage (75K-110K) Audi 3A motors for a very reasonable price, they were pulled and stored inside for several years.

Short answer, I already have a decent stock 1.8L 16V 'PL' motor, will likely have a stock '3A' 8V motor in a few days and I have enough gumption and cash to try something. I also have a line on a 78K mile 'TJ' 010 box. Chad, would you be willing to help me with a shopping list of items to refresh the 'TJ', especially all new seals? I am unsure if the harden shaft would be needed in my application but I do think I would opt for the Raybestos frictions and Kevlar band.

End of the day, I am going to try the 'TJ' in the Scirocco with a beefier normally aspirated motor, be it 16V or 8V but nothing too wild. No blue printing, knife edging, race pistons, super CAM with poor idle, Megasquirt or the like. I am not trying to step too far outside my abilities and again not looking for a race car, just a hot little unique nostalgia piece that makes me grin on my way to work and on road trips. 

IF, IF, IF I absolutely hate the 010, simple answer is grab one of my spare 'FF' 020 5spds, give it the once over and convert to stick over a long weekend and end up with a nice manual suited for the highway.

Other manual option would be high RPM, buzzing like a West Nile Mosquito at 75MPH, 'AGB' 020... not really :laugh:

If I do go back to a manual, I have met some people that might think a fresh 'TJ' 010 Automatic would be a great purchase 

Any body with engine build advice, after reading what I am shooting for and what engines I have to play with, feel free to let me know. All input welcome and I will glean the best of all to move forward with.

Stephen


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## sgjii (Nov 14, 2010)

I have found another TJ closer to home with no major road trip. A few more miles but I plan to fresh it it anyhow.

Does Anybody know if the MK2 Automatic floor shifter assembly and shift cable are the same between MK1 & MK2 cars? I am looking at getting the shifter and cable from the same 1986 Golf that is the transmission donor.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It's not the same, so it won't bolt in. The gates in the shifter, and the cables, are pretty much universal though, so they're good. The shifter itself will need modding to fit.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I hate having an uninsulated garage. I've got my audi box apart on the bench, trying to set up the new shifter lever arm, and it's too cold/damp to work out there. I need to do some welding, but because the metal is so cold, when I fire up the welder, the welds get pretty porous from the condensation vapor. I'm going to be running a shifter from an Audi 5000, and the appropriately modified arm, since the Audi cable pulls instead of pushes. I'd love to keep my quarterstick, but I'm really feeling a stock shifter now...and I threw away all my Mk1 stuff over the summer .


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKdMJIHumFs&feature=related

jan performance 010 9 sec pass


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## Shagbark (Jan 26, 2012)

Hey fellows, 

This thread gave me enough confidence in the 010 to begin a swap into my diesel Rabbit Pickup. 
This isn't a "performance" swap, obviously. I may have to get out and push to get over hills when I'm done. I'm doing the swap because I read two water-meter routes with this truck, and pushing the clutch 1,200 times a day was going to have me walking with limp soon.:thumbdown: 
Anyhow, I've gathered up most of the parts I need including a 1990 auto Jetta, mk1 auto mounts, axles and a diesel auto starter. I'll make the shifter from the Jetta work whether it wants to or not. A diesel auto tranny to IP cable would make things a little easier, but I can make the gasser cable work if need be (likely because I can't find one). 
The tranny is a TN code 3.41-R/P and is currently disassembled in my shop. I have a Makco master rebuild kit, Borg Warner brake band, Makco bushing kit, and a filter on the way. This tranny was pushing 200,000 and although it was leaking fluids, it still worked great.:thumbup: Good thing I didn't buy all that "autotragic" BS :bs: after finding this thread! Thanks to everyone who's contributed. :wave: Everything looks to be good in there, but I'm rebuilding it to be safe. 
Okay, here's where I've ran into trouble: The torque converter bushing shows some wear and needs to be replaced, but I can't find that little devil anywhere. Have any of you guys bought one of these, or know where to buy one? My converter is a 7105K (2200 stall) if that's any help. I think my main problem is that I don't know the part#. Does anybody know it? 

Thanks fellows.


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## Shagbark (Jan 26, 2012)

Found it! 
Was in the parts diagram provided by B4S, right here in THIS thread. 
I wore google out last night looking for that bushing.:screwy:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Glad I could help! Both with convincing you to convert to the 010, and the part # . 

Welcome to the insanity!


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## Shagbark (Jan 26, 2012)

B4S said:


> Glad I could help! Both with convincing you to convert to the 010, and the part # .
> 
> Welcome to the insanity!


 Insanity? 
I should be right at home here. :laugh: 
Thanks for the welcome.:thumbup:


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

this thread died...I was bored and browsing youtube and found my car with the 010 in it going down the track>>>14 lbs boost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERk28E8IJGg


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I don't think it died, I think the majority of the 010 guys live in Canada and are stuck dealing with the snow, lol. I know my Audi/TNA hybrid is half finished on my workbench, where it's been since the weather got cold. I'll be putting more time into it once the garage warms up. 

To start my season off though, I'll be running the 4-speed 020 that's in my car now. I have to do the tuning first, custom mapping OBD1 ABA management for boost . Once it's good, the auto will go in and the boost will go up .


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

Yeah, we're still here, too.

We broke "something" in the box last September and didn't touch it until after the new year. After disassembly, it seems we broke the diff housing with our experiemental LSD. 

We have our "option 2" diff ready and right now we're just waiting on a few bits to reassemble.

We managed mid-11's in the 1/4, mid-7's in the 1/8 on our low boost setup (no controller, all spring) but once we get a few passes in, we'll get back to the big power and see what breaks next.

Our season will be back mid-to-late March then we'll post up some results.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I cant wait to see the results! im aiming for close to 130 mph trap this year.. I m crazy excited!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm looking for a few spare parts to finish my audi/TNA box. I'd trade a Hurst Quarterstick for a stock Mk1 shifter and console, and the lever at the transmission itself. I want to go back to stock look . Failing that, does anyone have an exact measurement for the arm at the box when using an aftermarket shifter? Mine has always felt 'off', and might have contributed in some small way to my box going slippy slippy last year. TE has a flame-cut arm, but I'd like to make it myself.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

problems with the transaxle engineering 300m input shaft! It turns out the way the shaft is made that if you use a stock torque converter the shaft will walk out of its clutch drum and tear the splines out of the drum..the torque converter needs to be cut apart and a metal stop needs to be welded in to keep it from walking..I really wish anyone would have told me that the new shaft no longer has a stopping collar on it like the oem one. it really sucks because this overlooked "mistake" is going to cost another 1000 bucks......


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

HOLY ISHT! 

I'm glad I haven't finished yet, this could have been very bad. Dude, it sucks that you had to find this out . Thanks a million for sharing with us though, seriously.

Was it TE that gave you this info?


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

No i finally broke down and brought the transmission to my friends transmission shop because I figured I was screwing up on assembly. after he looked at everything he said I did a good job so we sat down and looked at what had failed. when the shaft is inserted in the converter it goes close to a quarter inch further then the oem one with the shoulder machined in it. it sucks i have had so much down time with the transmission but i guess its part of the learning process. so next step send the converter out to get cut apart again and get a stop welded into it.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, at least you know you're doing it right. The worst part of any failure is the self-doubt, IMO. 

I'll have to compare the stocker to the 300m one, I can't visualize it right now. Would it be possible to machine the shoulder into the chromoly one? Without reducing it's strength anyway?


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

the 300m shft seems to thin in that spot to make a shoulder, and jeff fields said the it would be a terrible idea to machine the step in it. Im so bummmmed about this.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Fack . 
Ok, I don't know the exact construction of everything in the converter, but could a small spacer be used instead of a welded-in step? That would be a lot simpler.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ok, I just went out to compare the stocker and 300m shafts. What end is the shoulder that's missing on? On my 300m, the splines at the converter end are longer than the stocker, but as much as I tried, I could not get it to go into the converter any further than the stocker. I'm assuming that the stocker doesn't sit all the way into the converter, and is held back by something inside the box. Is this where the 300m one is missing something? I couldn't really see a difference in the two shafts, or at least nothing jumped out at me that would cause the float-out.

If the difference in converter depth is 1/4", like your guy said, then the stock one only engages about 1/4" of the splined end in the converter. I wish we had a cutaway of the whole system, mounted to an engine.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I just thought of something...
Is your modded converter missing the stopper in it? Both the stock shaft and the 300m one can't go any further into the stock converter because of a little 'ring' of metal at the 'bottom' of the converter input. At the transmission side, the stock shaft doesn't lock into the pump at all, so I'm really wondering what is missing from the 300m one. I'll try to put up pics tonight to show the difference. I even used a brass hammer to try to force it into the converter, but it just would not go further than the stock one.

I'm really trying to wrap my head around this, but I can't see how the shaft could walk. I had planned on swapping to auto once my tuning was done, and now I'm a bit concerned...


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## adam12er (Sep 6, 2002)

I don't see a shoulder on the stock shaft either. We have a modded T/C and no issues thus far. Although we have not put the full boost to it, we do have several 1/4 and 1/8 miles passes while shifting under full power at 8K rpm. Ours is holding up nicely with no unusual shaft issues.

We just had our friend/racing buddy (he is our transmission guru and an engineer) go through our box completely and everything looked great.

Can you take a picture of the shoulder so we all know what the issue is?


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

the shoulder im reffering to is the one directly behind the ending of the torque converter splines that are on the stock shaft.If you measure the thickess of the 2 shafts i that spot the 300m one is longer. If jeff was so iterested in getting more spline engagement and there is about 200 thou worth of spline left why not make the shaft longer instead of cutting backwards in the shaft..the stock shaft has a little c clip ring that stops it from sliding further into the converter. the 300m one does not. so I am actually going to make a 190 thou spacer so it wont walk anymore. Adam I have made about 20 or so full power passes without it breaking. But I also drove this car 5000kms back and forth to work. so i have a bunch of time and abuse on it. sorry im a tard at posting pics and i hate it lol.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ok, I get it now. Still though, I cannot make the 300m shaft go any further into the converter than the stocker. I've measured over and over, using ATF, calipers, even measuring tapes, and they both sink the same amount. There's a stopper in my converter already that prevents movement.


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

I'm not seeing it. I don't know what happened to your box but I just can't see a defficiency in the shaft. 

Do you have a photo of a stock shaft with the C-clip ring installed on the TC end?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Tonight I'll snap a few pics of the stocker vs. the 300m, and how deep they go into the converter. I've got everything loose still.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

so im the only person with this problem? of course..f#$k me running! i would love to se a picture of the stop in the converter.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'll run out in half an hour and snap pics. Covered in gasoline currently, I stink, lol. Rabbit's fuel lines are done though .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

The stock on the right, 300m on the left. 









The stock shaft, dry. 









Stock shaft, showing the depth it was able to go into the converter. It's tough to see, but it goes to the shoulder mentioned by A2TDI. 









300m, dry. Note the lack of shoulder, and longer splines. 









300m after insertion. The fluid level is identical to the stock shaft, and coincides exactly to the location of the shoulder on the stocker. I could NOT get the 300m shaft to go any further than that into the converter, it was impossible. Even a brass drift couldn't do it. 









I couldn't get enough fluid out of the converter to show the stop, but I could feel it. It just seems to be as deep as the internal splined area.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I think in the long run of the 010 transmission that alot of little things have changed. Maybe I had a early torque converter rebuilt and restalled? maybe the later converters came with a stopper? because my 300m shaft just falls into my converter until it bottoms out on the pump drive in the converter.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Could be dude, could be. It sucks you had to find out, you've had some expensive issues with this project . I think I have a second converter, I'll test it and see what happens. Maybe the shop that restalled your box did something to the insides?


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## VWtuner-nl (Jan 29, 2007)

Hey guys, 

I just made some pictures with the transaxle shaft and some opened up converters. 

first you have the converter outer shell, on this shell is the pump drive welded, on this pump drive rests the turbine wheel with a copper sliding bearing between it. 
then the stator with cupper rings and all is closed with the pump (other shell half) with minimum off play between all these parts together. 

so it`s an open hole through the turbine, when I put the Transaxle engineering shaft in the turbinewheel as far as possible, the max it will go through is 2 mm (measured by 2 converters). 

normally it can`t go this far because the cupper bearing will prevent this. 

The only way you could measure that your shaft wil go in 1/4" further is when the oil pump drive is broken from your outer shell or the pump drive must be heavely worn, because then your turbinewheel wil also go in further. Otherwise it isn`t possible. 

































































Greetings, 

Martijn.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

so I must have broken the torque converter as well as all the other parts lol.. I will have to cut the converter apart and inspect it then. I have a few more converters laying around so i will have to do some measuring on monday. Anyone else break a torque converter yet or have any problems?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm dusting off an old thread .
My workbench is clean after a winter of abuse, so I'm going to get to finishing my Audi/010 box. I want to make sure it's a perfect setup before it goes in, so I'm going to get the starter rebuilt and round up an external cooler. I'm also looking for a stock Mk1 shifter lever, if anyone has one. I like my quarterstick, but I don't trust the shift arm I made at the tranny. I have the shifter/arm from the audi I got the box from, but it's got a funky shift pattern that I'm not sure I like.


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## motorcarman (Nov 9, 2008)

I love this thread and I look for it every few months. I got the idea of a 1982 Rabbit Turbo-Diesel Automatic gearbox from this thread.

I have a 1980 Rabbit 1.6 K-Jetronic that was the wife's first VW back in 1981 (one year old used car). The engine quit in 1993. I still have it but it is good for parts. I drove her 1985 1.8 K-Jetronic Jetta Auto Gearbox car after I got her into a 1992 Jaguar XJ6.

The 1985 Jetta had 351,000 miles on it when I parked it with all the suspension bushes TOTALLY worn out. The TJ gearbox was slipping a little and taking a long time to shift. I read here that the final drive ratio was 3.12.

I got a 1982 4 door diesel Rabbit with a 5 Speed manual for a 'parts runner' for my repair shop.
A guy at another shop in town had a 1985 Jetta with a MF Turbo Diesel. He rebuilt the engine and put it in his Rock Crawler Suzuki Samurai but it was not enough power for him.

He offered the engine and a bunch of parts for $400 so I bought it. I bought an 010 rebuild kit and replaced all the worn parts in the box. I threaded and plugged the main accumulator but I drilled a small diameter hole so it is not totally disabled, just restricted (thanks rabbit6)

I found a reman Bosch diesel starter and between the 4 cars I got the MF TD engine, TJ autobox and shifter assembled into the 1982 Rabbit 4 door.

I had to modify the exhaust downpipe to angle correctly in the Rabbit. It runs fine but I need to get an intake filter fitted into the right front engine compartment and get the exhaust bent/fitted from the rear of the tunnel to the back through a muffler.

I needed to get an auto trans parts runner for the times I have to go into the BIG CITY (Fort Worth TX) every once in a while and fight the traffic. I got tired of 3 peddling the stopped traffic on the jammed highways.

I was getting 38 MPG city with the CR 52HP 5 speed so I will keep track of the fuel economy to see if the ease of driving is worth the MPG loss.

I'll post pics if anyone is interested in the ongoing project.

Thanks for all the info on this 010 thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bob gauff


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## sgjii (Nov 14, 2010)

*Redline D4 ATF Fluid*

I believe I read in this thread about using Redline D4 ATF fluid in the 010 transmission and in the differential housing. Before I go off with half knowledge and change some fluids, could I get a piece of mind reply, that I am doing the right thing by putting the same Redline fluid in both the automatic shifting side of the transmission AND the differential side where there is currently hypoid gear oil?

If I remember correctly the suggestion was from both a lower resistance thus better fuel economy standpoint as well as the idea if there were a gasket failure and the two chambers mixed, it would be of minimal consequence rather than killing the 010 box.

Thanks in advance for the adivce from the 010 masters 

Stephen


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

motorcarman said:


> I love this thread and I look for it every few months. I got the idea of a 1982 Rabbit Turbo-Diesel Automatic gearbox from this thread.
> 
> I have a 1980 Rabbit 1.6 K-Jetronic that was the wife's first VW back in 1981 (one year old used car). The engine quit in 1993. I still have it but it is good for parts. I drove her 1985 1.8 K-Jetronic Jetta Auto Gearbox car after I got her into a 1992 Jaguar XJ6.
> 
> ...


I'm interested . Sounds like a cool project, glad this thread could help!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

sgjii said:


> I believe I read in this thread about using Redline D4 ATF fluid in the 010 transmission and in the differential housing. Before I go off with half knowledge and change some fluids, could I get a piece of mind reply, that I am doing the right thing by putting the same Redline fluid in both the automatic shifting side of the transmission AND the differential side where there is currently hypoid gear oil?
> 
> If I remember correctly the suggestion was from both a lower resistance thus better fuel economy standpoint as well as the idea if there were a gasket failure and the two chambers mixed, it would be of minimal consequence rather than killing the 010 box.
> 
> ...


I originally said that, and to be honest, I've never tested that theory. After seeing how easy it is to change the seals to keep the two fluids separate, I decided not to try. I was unable to find concrete data on the idea of using that fluid in both areas, and didn't want to take the chance on something unknown.


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## sgjii (Nov 14, 2010)

Are the seals between the two areas readily available? I also haven't been interested in pulling the 010 out of my 4000 at this point, with it's super low miles.

I do have the 010 TJ box I want to put in my Scirocco but work got in the way of any progress on that project for the last 2months-ish.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yep, Rock Auto has everything .


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

my awesome 010 update:
Still stuck working in awesome china. completely devoid of anything fun to play with.

back for a 2 week visit in september, featuring at least 1 autocross race, in my 010 rabbit! with a little luck it'll finally be sporting a freshly redone 010 with all the TE goodies


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## mrrbiggz (Dec 16, 2008)

*hard shift*

I love this thread!! On to the good stuff. I was given a 92 golf with an auto box. I put a batt in and she fired up. Been sitting for 2 years! put her in drive and BAAMM it went into gear hard..I went back to P and went to R..smooth no hard shifts..went from R to D and its smooth... only from P to D...any thing I should look at first? I will be putting it in my garage tonite..I plan on stating with the fluid drain and filter..any opinions are welcome!!


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

I'd suggest sloppy engine mounts, and maybe a high idle could do that.
In P, everything is relaxed. Popping it into D (especially if it idles high) applies torque to the wheels and if your mounts are sloppy, the engine will jump. Going from R to D is moving from a state of torque to a state of torque, with not enough time for a relaxed period in between. 
A similar phenomenon could happen if some/all of your suspension/steering parts are shot. When torque comes through the trans, the brakes stop it, but what stops the steering knuckle from spinning? The strut mount, the ball joint, the tie rod, etc. 
The bang you describe could be the torque being taken up by slop in mounts or suspension, or perhaps even CV joints.
If you can get the old beastie (nice score, btw... any pics?) up on a drive-on hoist, and have someone cycle it between P and D, perhaps you can sniff around underneath with a mechanic's stethoscope and pinpoint where the sound is coming from, if not right out observe it visually.
Incidentally, P-R would cause the torque to flex the mounts in the opposite direction of forward gears, which might explain why it bangs going into D and not R.


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## rjev (May 29, 2009)

While we're on the topic, my auto has always had a bit of a tendency to clunk into gear at times. P-D, P-R, D-P and R-P are all fine and pretty quiet, but there's often a good clunk going from R-D, mostly just when the car is at operating temp and idling high (~1050). Mounts are in good shape, suspension is flawless, transmission works perfectly. I've just always wondered. What do you figure, Rabbit6?


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## MissHood (May 9, 2004)

hey, how is everyone? hopefully I dont ask some silly noob question but I just picked up this 92 cabriolet with an 010 that shifts poorly, amoung other lack of power issues. I'm trying to get this thing running good, I got a smokin deal on it. here is my question, do these trans have an rear main seal? im trying to find the torque spec. the gear engagement is delayed in upshifting. k thanks


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## MissHood (May 9, 2004)

also.. am I missing something where the 2 open holes are? becuase I think the one hole I see right into some gear/torque converter. :facepalm:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Nope, not missing anything. One is the timing hole, the other one was for the oldschool diagnostic computer that VW used to use.


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## MissHood (May 9, 2004)

B4S said:


> Nope, not missing anything. One is the timing hole, the other one was for the oldschool diagnostic computer that VW used to use.


oohhh, cool. Good to hear that it's supost to really be that way!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

The vanes on the converter are what you're seeing, it acts like a fan to bring in cool air. VW's idea of transmission cooling, although it's not the most efficient way of doing it.

As for the clunky shifts, somewhere on the first page I uploaded a PDF of a factory 010 troubleshooting manual I got at a swap meet, it's invaluable for figuring out the issues these boxes have when they get old .


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

rjev said:


> While we're on the topic, my auto has always had a bit of a tendency to clunk into gear at times. P-D, P-R, D-P and R-P are all fine and pretty quiet, but there's often a good clunk going from R-D, mostly just when the car is at operating temp and idling high (~1050). Mounts are in good shape, suspension is flawless, transmission works perfectly. I've just always wondered. What do you figure, Rabbit6?



If I were to take a stab at guessing, I'd think the brake pad slop. Reverse and brake puts all slop in one direction. Switching to D reverses torque direction, and all slop bangs against the opposite 'stop' If the brake pad carrier/pad interface is worn, the pads would be banging back and forth as they travel across their range of slop. Another similar possibility is CV joint slop. Add a little brake slop to a little CV slop and I can imagine it being quite noticeable, not that either singularly wouldn't be.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

MissHood said:


> hey, how is everyone? hopefully I dont ask some silly noob question but I just picked up this 92 cabriolet with an 010 that shifts poorly, amoung other lack of power issues. I'm trying to get this thing running good, I got a smokin deal on it. here is my question, do these trans have an rear main seal? im trying to find the torque spec. the gear engagement is delayed in upshifting. k thanks


Hi and welcome.

"rear Main seal" typically refers the the dynamic oil seal on the 'big end' of the crankshaft, as opposed to the smaller 'front main seal' at the timing belt end of the crank. The rear main seal is accessible only by removing the transmission. If you have a leaky rear main seal (it happens) the oil may follow gravity's influence and drip dutifully from the lowest point of the bell housing (large round section of the transmission which bolts to the engine-- sorry if i'm being unnecessarily specific). 
However due to the fairly wild airflow patterns within the bellhousing (refer to above notes about cooling fins on the torque converter's exterior), not to mention centrifugal force flinging the oil off the flex plate if it follows that route instead, the oil may be dripping from an unexpected location. Possibly also, only while driving. One good thing is, as long as fluids aren't intermixing, they're usually pretty easy to tell apart. Engine oil will be some shade between fresh gold and old black, and not have much of a smell. Automatic transmission fluid has a distinct smell and is some shade between fresh red and old brown. Brown ATF smells burnt compared to fresh. Gear oil, from the final drive/differential housing will remain between gold and light brown, though it may have a metallic appearance due to suspended metal particulate (gear wear) and smells quite bad. These all assume the fluid hasn't picked up filth along it's drip path and changed color as a result.

The transmission itself has a few different seals in the bellhousing area which may leak with age or damage. Determining the fluid type will help give an idea of what may be leaking.

As a general rule of thumb, the first attempt to solve problems with an auto is to change it's fluid. The concept is similar to an engine oil change, though it need not be performed quite as often. (unless you're holding 15psi of boost on the brakes at the dragstrip's light tree every weekend, of course)
It's a straightforward process, but you'll need a couple things. For the first time around, a transmission oil filter kit would be a good thing to have. It's basically the pan gasket and a new screen. From that point onward, you can just clean the screen and change just the gasket. It would be wise to have the appropriate sized torque wrench to re-tighten the screen screw, as it would be unfortunate to have it come loose or get snapped off by over-tightening.
While the pan is off and catch bucket placed below, start the engine and cycle up and down through all the gears a couple times. This, naturally, would be performed with the parking brake set and the foot brake depressed. This process will allow more of the old fluid trapped withing the torque converter and valve body etc to be ejected. You won't get it all, so don't spend too much time running the engine. This ejecting process should take under 15 seconds. Reassemble and follow manual directions for ensuring proper fluid level.
A fresh charge of fluid and make a big difference all by itself. Try this first, then go from there.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

NEEDED! 100MM drive cups for the 010! let me know what you have.


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## MissHood (May 9, 2004)

Rabbit6 said:


> Hi and welcome.
> 
> "rear Main seal" typically refers the the dynamic oil seal on the 'big end' of the crankshaft, as opposed to the smaller 'front main seal' at the timing belt end of the crank. The rear main seal is accessible only by removing the transmission. If you have a leaky rear main seal (it happens) the oil may follow gravity's influence and drip dutifully from the lowest point of the bell housing (large round section of the transmission which bolts to the engine-- sorry if i'm being unnecessarily specific).
> However due to the fairly wild airflow patterns within the bellhousing (refer to above notes about cooling fins on the torque converter's exterior), not to mention centrifugal force flinging the oil off the flex plate if it follows that route instead, the oil may be dripping from an unexpected location. Possibly also, only while driving. One good thing is, as long as fluids aren't intermixing, they're usually pretty easy to tell apart. Engine oil will be some shade between fresh gold and old black, and not have much of a smell. Automatic transmission fluid has a distinct smell and is some shade between fresh red and old brown. Brown ATF smells burnt compared to fresh. Gear oil, from the final drive/differential housing will remain between gold and light brown, though it may have a metallic appearance due to suspended metal particulate (gear wear) and smells quite bad. These all assume the fluid hasn't picked up filth along it's drip path and changed color as a result.
> ...


hey, finally got around to changing the ATF, and slift Alot better. Thanks alot for All the info about changing it, came in handy:wave:


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

well for all of you that gave up on this silly little transmission I finally proved that it can handle some pretty serious power. I hit the dyno on friday and made 431 wheel hp and 336 wheel torque.

dyno vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El8BfK4ygUo&list=UUQa_kmnOesMEp4ISjX3sEYw&index=1&feature=plcp


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Nice!!!


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

*010h my god!*

So what you're saying is, you can actually feed these little b!tches at least 480-500 HP. (guess you got that input shaft engagement problem sorted)
Sweeet!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

This means someone MUST want my manual VB and pump flower...CHEAP!


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## DirtyfaceDan (Jan 16, 2010)

*Convert gasser 010 to diesel?*

I have and 83 auto diesel Rabbit, NA. Great little bunny. Cheap and fun to run, Anyone can drive it. Way more fun than my ugly Jetta. I have an extra 86 (rare i read) gasser auto final drive. I should prob save it for my bunny, but i was wondering....What's needed to convert the gasser 010 transmission to a diesel, as the shifts are different RPM? Rebuilding autobox's is something I have always steered clear of, but it's worth a shot.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Swap the governors, and possibly the valvebody too. That's it .


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I have a new personal best quarter mile time with this trans in my jetta... 11.28 at 129 mph! wooohoooo love this little transmission!


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

latest update if anyone cares anymore lol...transmission started slipping in all forward gears and in reverse when wot is acheived..im thinking it a line pressure problem but im open to other guess's


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## chris24f22 (Aug 13, 2012)

*Hellpp*

does anyone know where to buy all the clutch packs new or clutch packs rebuild kits? pm me or email me at [email protected] PLEASE HELP


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

readily available pretty well anywhere decent that sells parts.
for example:
http://www.bestpricecarparts.ca/ite...67349&mfr=Precision International&weight=3.90


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## bentetzner (Mar 1, 2009)

*010 trans*

Hi,
Where did you find a repair manual for this transmission?





B4S said:


> If anyone out there is interested, I figure it might be nice to have a place to put all the snippets of info that have been floating around about the 010. I know a few of us really like that box...but we all only have a small piece of the puzzle. I recently bought a nice little factory 010 troubleshooting manual at a swap meet, and there are some interesting bits in it. Here's the link to download a PDF:
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/tchaa...e.pdf
> It's a pretty secretive topic, the 010, but maybe it's finally time to let the world know what a few of us already do. I'll be updating this with as much info as I can find/have already, in order to further the research. I've got information about changing the shift points, a nice rebuild manual, and pictures of a box torn down. I'll also look in to cross-referencing the various boxes for useful parts that can be swapped...but that might be a big task for one guy.
> Cheers all...and if you care, share, please
> ...


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Uh, the manuals are in the links in the post you quoted...

Are they gone?

The rebuild manual I bought was actually useless, since it was just reprints of the info available in the Audi 4000/Audi 5000/VW Mk1 bentley manuals.


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## bentetzner (Mar 1, 2009)

*Repair manual*

Hi,
Where did you find the repair manual for this tranny, and does it cover the automatic section in detail? The manual section is pretty easy.
Benhttp://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/smile.gif


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I replied above you...


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## Vee Dubb (Jan 3, 2002)

I can't believe I sat here and read this whole thread. So much good information, with so much actual, hands-on experience rolled up here. It really renews my almost-lost enthusiasm that I used to have for my vw's before I got off on the tangent of mercedes om617's and 4x4's.


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

OM617's are a reasonable distraction... 
Now to try one with an 010 in a dune buggy!


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## Vee Dubb (Jan 3, 2002)

Rabbit6 said:


> OM617's are a reasonable distraction...
> Now to try one with an 010 in a dune buggy!


 ... and an effective distraction! Well, what I have in mind to build would basically be the opposite of dune buggy. But I am most definitely on the hunt for one of these transmissions now.


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## rabbitinfife (Dec 23, 2007)

How often do the torque converter seals that u see for sale go out.

I know alot more about the o2o trans but i just recently picked up a wrecked 84 rabbit vert with good runing drivetrain. 

It is a 1.8 auto car was going to swap it into a project that I am currently working on. 

The last few times that I have started it up and let it idle it is leaving a puddle under the trans.

I was going to replace rear main seal before i put it into project what else should I do on the 010 before it goes back on the motor.

I have new filter gasket kit too that is going in as well.


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## aberzins (Jun 24, 2010)

I have an 84 Jetta, with a 010 with the E mode. in with a 1.6na diesel. I have just pulled the engine & trans, plan to reinstall trans. with 1.6td.

Transmission-wise, is there anything I should do\check on the trans. prior to installing? Axle seals? Shift kit - lol? 

I was thinking filters and fluid - but at the same time, I'm not sure if the trans works ( it was, before
sitting for a year) 

thanks


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

Not a lot of reason for a good trans to go bad just from sitting one year. Just like you said, filter and fluid. The filter is just a brass screen, so you could save a few bux and just get the gaskets or try your luck at the gaskets still being fresh enough to seal a second time and just buy the fluid.


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## srgtlord (Jun 4, 2010)

Depending on how many miles are on the beast it may be wise to separate the two transmission halves as a preventative measure to replace the dividing seal between the gear oil and ATF considering how rare the auto diesel boxes are nowadays


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## aberzins (Jun 24, 2010)

Thanks for the help! 

It will interesting to see how it performs with my 1.6td with a few minor mods - downpipe, exhaust, gov mod. 

Any thoughts on what I can expect?


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## firehawk6188 (Jun 16, 2011)

I skimmed through this whole thread and didn't find the answer to my question. 

I have a 1990 Cabrio that's dumping trans fluid into the final drive. I understand the seals that keep the trans fluid separate from the differential oil tends to go bad but..... 

I am trying like hell to find a "how to" for replacing these seals. I'm pulling the trans out of the car right now and any help / advice on these seals would be awesome. 

Thanks!


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

the MK1 bentleys have an excellent 010 section which will lead you through the process. That would be your best bet.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

If anyone is interested in 010 Beef up parts shoot me a message im clearing out all my performance auto stuff. most things i have double of!


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## srgtlord (Jun 4, 2010)

Just in case anyone is interested and this has not been stated previously in the 22+ pages, you can use the 010 with a carburetor with no modifications other than a custom throttle bracket and slight rigging of the old throttle lever


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## jcrumle (Feb 26, 2013)

*010 Governor*

I have a 89 cabriolet that is leaking tranny fluid at the governor. I have replaced the two o-ring seals but now I can't get the governor to go back in far enough to re-install the cap. Any suggestions????


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## 92er (Mar 5, 2013)

*Thank you*

what a wonderfull thread, I just find it yesterday night and could´t stop readig it all, so I want to thank you all guys involved on this... greetings from Mexico, did you Canadian fellows already end Hibernation Season ??. 

Also any news on the DIFF order, I want to be in on that. :wave:


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

The only news is that you are the only person to have responded. now just need a boatload more people to join in. hehe.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

i think 92ER should buy my transaxle engineering parts first then buy a diff!


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## 92er (Mar 5, 2013)

A2TDI said:


> i think 92ER should buy my transaxle engineering parts first then buy a diff!


Ok, Tell me about this, I avide to learn. 

I just want to point some things, I do NOT race, I just love long distance driving (highway and some times unpaved roads) I like high speeds, and Im trying to put up an mk2 capable of easy out perform a new car on the road.
I first came to this thread tinking that my automatic 010 trans will not be capable of hold more power from a modified engine, now Im confident that this is not an issue.

and please forgive if my writing is not quite clear since english is not my mother tonge.

Regards.:beer:


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

The stock automatic if its in good condition can handle a pretty good amount of power. mine modified was getting 500 horsepower being shoved through its internals. the stuff I have is more for race application but was origonally designed for desert racing.


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## rychas1 (Mar 2, 2004)

sgjii said:


> This thread is full of 010 knowledge but it does seem most are interested in drag racing applications but I am in search of info for a daily driver.
> 
> What I would like to build the car with is a 1.8L 16V engine, stock CIS-E w/knock, a header and larger free flowing exhaust. Stock it specs at 124HP iirc and I figure apx. 130HP-ish with the exhaust opened up a little. I am not looking for a race car but a fun nostalgic piece that would get decent fuel economy and not leave me embarrassed at the light by the likes a Geo Metro or Corolla running on 3 cylinders and smoking.
> 
> ...


I don't long into this thread in a long time, and it's amazing how much time has flown by. I am stoked by everyone's progress. But, I can certainly comment on the 16v TNA 010. If I leave something out, please ask.

First, you won't find any/little support. I didn't when mine was built back in 2003. Gosh, it's been that long! Second, as only with this thread, very very few people "play" with the 010. Third, even fewer with a 16v. Heck, back in 2003, the only people that even ran the 010 with boost was Chad with his g60 and Jorge from PR, that was running 9s with his 16vT. Otherwise, it was just me (that I was aware of, and especially on vortex). Truly, a class one 1.

With that being said, the combo is amazing! I'd have to dig-up my old dyno sheet, but the car essentially made stock PL 16v power running SNS-chipped digifant 2, with maybe a few ponies lost. But, it DROVE great. I raced/ran a number of 5speed 16v GLIs and they were slower. I'll never forget running my friend Pat in his 89 GLi, foot to the floor...I was pulling him past the triples  His exact words were "I respect that 16v 3speed". Never has slippage. Shifting was dramatically improved with rubber motor mounts/g60 tranny mount combo. That motor didn't budge. It was also daily driven. No issues. It would kickdown to first and shift at 7300 and keep going, if the conditions were met. Often, I'd put it in 2 and run it to 6800-6900, and then shift. That was an amazing feeling, and the 16v loved it. It would eventually top out on a dyno at 133mph. Stupid limiter . I have no doubt that there was a little more speed left in that 010. I never did a 0-60 test, but it wasn't a slouch. There were few cars within that power range that were faster. It was near instantaneous. My 010 box was 100% stock and it shifted perfect every time. I documented the shift points a long time ago, but it shifted about 3000 part throttle, and 6600-6800 WOT. 

For the history, it was not an "intentional" marriage. I had my regular 8v 010 for about two weeks when the engine blew. My mechanic had a 16v and said that it could be done, despite my inability to find any references or support from vwvortex. They tried to talk me out of it, called me crazy, blahblahblah. It was the best decision ever! I regret selling that car and truly miss it, especially with this 010 revival gong on in this thread. 

That's that. If I can share more, I will.


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## ctange (May 6, 2013)

*Leaking gearbox etc.*

My gearbox (code TL) is leaking ATF from the round place here:









Is this easy to fix?

What is the difference between a TL and a TKA gearbox?


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

That is the cover for the 2nd gear brake band piston. In theory, it is a very simple fix. In reality, you have a few things which can aufhalten your Fahrvergnügen.
1. Access to the area when installed in the car. Clearly not an issue here.
2. Steel snap ring corroded into its groove. A pain in the arsch, for sure, but nothing that cannot be overcome with penetrating oil, some appropriate prying and picking tools, and some gentle tapping with hammer and punch to shake the rust loose.
3. Aluminum cover corroded in place. This stands to be quite a bit more pesky than the snap ring. Patience, penetrating oil, gentle heat and cooling cycles with a propane torch or electric heat gun and water, gentle impacts with a mallet and general coaxing will _almost_ always eventually do the trick. Don't get übereifrigen with the impact. I will never admit to having smashed one of these covers in frustration. Uhh-- damn.  
Behind the cover are some spring loaded parts. Ideally, you pry out the snap ring, give the cover a tap with a mallet and the whole works pops out into your hand, puking some ATF in the process. Replace the cover's O-ring, re-install, and you're done.
As with all auto trans repairs, make sure everything is 110% schmutz-free.

I'd like to thank google translator for the added entertaining (for me, at least :facepalm: ) verbiage.

Incidentally, are you sure it is leaking from that cover, or is it possibly the pan gasket leaking, and the oil getting blown up around the back-side by wind while driving?


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## ctange (May 6, 2013)

Thank you for the reply Rabbit6.

I have taken the engine+gearbox out of the car as one unit
to have easy access to the gearbox, and also to have good 
space to seperate them.

The problem is leaking of both ATF and gearoil.
The leaking of gearoil was massive and unacceptable.
I have filled liters and liters in the differential.
This have realy spoiled my fahrvergnügen.

There is no ATF in the differential.

Today I have removed the cover, to see if there is
visible damage, because I am sure the differential
has been running dry at some times, and probably also
with me as the owner.

I think it looks ok?




























But the gasket is in poor condition, and the previous owner
have tried to apply som silicone from the outside.



















So probably much of the gear oil leak is from around this gasket.
I plan to cut a new gasket and apply a small
amount of liquid gasket on it before closing.

I am sure there is leaking of ATF from arround the
cover to the 2nd gear brake band piston,








but I do not think it is the only leak of ATF.

As you say, it is difficult to tell because the
oil getting blown up around.

Is it a difficult task to replace the seals to the 
drive flanges? Is it easy to get parts?

I have to do some more cleaning before doing more I know.


----------



## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

The flange seals are not too hard to do, and also, not hard to find parts for.
Especially if you install one of these:

http://peloquins.com/products_80.html

This gives you somewhat of a limited slip effect in your differential. It is designed for manual transmissions, but you can convert the autos to suit. Gary Peloquin can explain the process.

This kit includes a handy tool for removing and installing, which can be reused.
I've got an 80% kit in mine, and while not nearly as nice as one of his Torsen style differentials, (he'll make them for the auto if we can get an order of 15) it does improve things noticeably.


----------



## vwfreek (Dec 28, 1999)

While browsing craigslist, I came across an 010 for sale locally. I have a Vanagon with automatic, so I figured I could use it for spare parts. When I get there, the guy has all the parts for a mk1 swap, and I picked everything up for the price of scrap. I bring it home and rub the grease away to reveal a 'TJA' code. 

Now the gears start to turn...

Last winter I totaled my 2002 Golf TDI, and it's sitting in the yard under a tarp. My dad has a rust-free early 80's Rabbit Convertible with drive train issues that I could probably talk him out of. The TDI is bolted up to an 01M which would require some serious fabrication to fit in a mk1 and it's expensive to maintain and not very reliable anyway (I've already blown up one of them).

So is there any reason I shouldn't combine Rabbit Convertible + TDI + 010?

The only issue I see is trying to get the kick down to work with drive-by-wire, but nothing a little creative thinking couldn't solve. And just for fun, I had an 01M speed sensor laying around...it fits perfectly on the 010 speedo drive gear.


----------



## srgtlord (Jun 4, 2010)

With the TDI I would just find a manual transmission, its not worth the hassle to fit a 3-speed to a fuel efficient TDI.


----------



## rychas1 (Mar 2, 2004)

srgtlord said:


> With the TDI I would just find a manual transmission, its not worth the hassle to fit a 3-speed to a fuel efficient TDI.


TD came in 3speeds. A TDI would suit an 010 nicely.


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## vwfreek (Dec 28, 1999)

rychas1 said:


> TD came in 3speeds. A TDI would suit an 010 nicely.


There's not a whole lot of info on the internet for the 010, and I haven't used my mk2 Bentley manual in years and probably buried it in the garage somewhere. But if the TJA is the same as the TJ, that would mean it has the 3.12 final drive, which is the same as what was used with the TD. That's what started me on this whole thought process.


----------



## mystnmuck (Jul 21, 2013)

*010 Final Drive Assembly drain and fill*

I have a 1992 Cabriolet with an 010. It is my wife's baby. She cant drive a manual because of a disability.

Upon driving it a while, there was constant gear whine that sounded a great deal like a differential (final drive assembly) that would be well served by fresh fluid. I have a Bentley Manual, and I have sent them an email, but in that manual it indicates the same plug by which one drains the final drive assembly is a "filler plug" and there is where you put the new fluid in.

I am skeptical this information in the Bentley manual is correct. Surely the drain hole will not be high enough to allow dispensing .75 quarts of gear oil into the unit.

For the 01M Final Drive, poking around online I read that one pulls the speed sensor gear assembly to replace the gear oil for the final drive assembly. This makes me wonder if one pulls the speedometer drive gear on the 010 final drive to put the .75 quarts of gear oil into the unit.

My question is if the Bentley manual is correct and I am not. I cannot find anywhere in the manual that indicates where the fluid is to be dispensed except for there.

Anyone that can assist me, I humbly thank them in advance.


----------



## rychas1 (Mar 2, 2004)

vwfreek said:


> There's not a whole lot of info on the internet for the 010, and I haven't used my mk2 Bentley manual in years and probably buried it in the garage somewhere. But if the TJA is the same as the TJ, that would mean it has the 3.12 final drive, which is the same as what was used with the TD. That's what started me on this whole thought process.


I agree. Just so you know, I have 3 TD governors in my garage, pulled from a TD 3speed, by my own hands! I have held these for at least 7 years.:thumbup:


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## vwfreek (Dec 28, 1999)

rychas1 said:


> I agree. Just so you know, I have 3 TD governors in my garage, pulled from a TD 3speed, by my own hands! I have held these for at least 7 years.:thumbup:


I'll keep that in mind.:thumbup: I need to finish the ABA swap in my Vanagon before I start the next project.


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## ctange (May 6, 2013)

I have a 1.6 NA diesel golf with a TL automatic.

Can I put a TN from a Golf 107 HP into my diesel Golf 54 HP?

The final drive-ratio and the gear-ratios are the same for the TL and TN.

Så the only difference if any must be the shiftpoints?


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## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

mystnmuck said:


> I have a 1992 Cabriolet with an 010. It is my wife's baby. She cant drive a manual because of a disability.
> 
> Upon driving it a while, there was constant gear whine that sounded a great deal like a differential (final drive assembly) that would be well served by fresh fluid. I have a Bentley Manual, and I have sent them an email, but in that manual it indicates the same plug by which one drains the final drive assembly is a "filler plug" and there is where you put the new fluid in.
> 
> ...



you can refill through the speedo cable hole.


----------



## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

ctange said:


> I have a 1.6 NA diesel golf with a TL automatic.
> 
> Can I put a TN from a Golf 107 HP into my diesel Golf 54 HP?
> 
> ...


Without digging into my literature (not accessible from my current position), the trans should bolt up to the engine, and mounts. Not likely many noticeable differences, other than what you mentioned. The other possibility is some diesels had an 'e' mode, where the trans would shift into neutral when you let off the accelerator. Some TD autos had a water to oil heat exchanger, too.


----------



## ctange (May 6, 2013)

Rabbit6 said:


> Without digging into my literature (not accessible from my current position), the trans should bolt up to the engine, and mounts. Not likely many noticeable differences, other than what you mentioned. The other possibility is some diesels had an 'e' mode, where the trans would shift into neutral when you let off the accelerator. Some TD autos had a water to oil heat exchanger, too.



The mounts seems to be the same.

The shifting behavior must reside in the governor and/or the valve-body and/or the converter?

The shifting console in the car have an 'E' mode, and was originally fitted with a TL,
but it is leaking ATF around the breake-band piston, and there was other smaller
issues with it.

I then fitted an other TL, and to my suprise this gearbox do not have the 'E' mode
as the original TL did. I am not missing the missing 'E' mode.

The "new" TL has an issue similar to what the thread initiator describe here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2967720-010-Hesitates-into-Drive
This is very annoying, and feels like something may break sooner or later.

I then got the TN gearbox, and according to the last user of the box, there was no
issues with it.

LATER: I opened to the differential oil filler hole, and 200-300 ml of oil ran out,
så maybe there are sol ATF mixed in.

My ambition is to have a reasonable well working transmission in the car,
nothing fancy. I do like to experiment, but as I have to do the swappings
outside along the pavement, I would like to keep it at a minimum during
winter.

I tried to pull the governor, and that was easy,
so a swap between TL and TN should be easy
if there is anything to be benefit from this?


----------



## heywier427 (Dec 23, 2009)

figure I would contribute to this thread! 

modding the gas governor to work for diesel.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ssion-Gots-a-question&p=84625954#post84625954


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## heywier427 (Dec 23, 2009)

and while im here, whats the code for the e-mode transmission, and can you swap the valve body from the emode trans into another coded trans?

the tj coded trans is the longest gear ratio (3.12 final) 

the emode trans is great for economy due to its free wheeling ability

can they be combined?

would you have to put the gears into the emode?

or can you swap the valve body into the tj coded trans?

I am a 010 noob. any ideas?

thanks.


----------



## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

I still have a TON of 010 performance parts available! They are from Transaxle engineering! Also a 4100rpm stall torque converter from sinister speed! Pm me!


----------



## DJD-Cornwall (Jan 30, 2014)

*Vanagon 010 Auto Transmission Reverse Gear Thud when hot*

Need some help - have a vw Vanagon T25 camper B reg 1985 with 1.9cc petrol engine DG code and 090 Diff / 010 autogearbox - all works fine when cold and warm but when hot (after 6 mile drive) engaging reverse from P and D gives a large shudder/clunk

Revs are 850rpm, new Dexron 2 ATF fluid level OK and drives well in all gears, new diff oil.

ATF was OK but smelt Ok no burnt smell but changed with Castrol Dex 2 and after a day noticed that fluid was not red- but slightly brown - .

The autoshift from 1-2 and 2-3 seems OK and can reach 70mph ok shifting from 2-3 is almost un noticeable but more of a slight surge from 1-2.

Some mention adjusting bands, others replacing valve seals in autobox which means dropping box and expense. Drives OK in forward and accelerates OK.

The only band to adjust is 2nd gear band in the Bentley manual I have adjusted this to spec. 

If the diff had play it would also be a problem when cold ? There is no slack in the drive shafts when parked and brakes on using a molegrips.

I did a pressure test and all looked fine except a pressure drop when hot engaging reverse, when cool/warm the pressure was OK engaging reverse.

The engine mounts are OK. I checked the slack on the diff/drive shafts by rotating tyre and at the tyre outer rim edge radius ( 32cm) gives a slack of 39mm when cold and 42mm when hot, there is some signs of diffbacklash when testing at slow speeds on the flat but not at normal speed ie 30mph +

I have cleaned the valve body - looked OK - (amazing work of engineering and headache for me) changed the accumulator seal and replaced the governor cover o ring.
Did the 2 pressure tests with a 60ml syringe on 2nd gear band and the 1st/reverse brake and held OK.

Any ideas what is causing this clunk engaging reverse when hot - I have posted also on Samba forum about a year ago

thanks David:beer:

I am in Cornwall , UK and no one here knows about Automatics


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## ctange (May 6, 2013)

heywier427 said:


> and while im here, whats the code for the e-mode transmission,


My E-mode transmission have code TL.

I have an other diesel transmission without E-mode, and it also has code TL.




heywier427 said:


> and can you swap the valve body from the emode trans into another coded trans?


I think it is possible to swap the valve body, but this I do not think will give E-mode.
It is an extra notch on the gearselector. I do know near to nothing about these transmissions.
I am taking a TKA apart to learn.



heywier427 said:


> the emode trans is great for economy due to its free wheeling ability


I have never noticed the free wheeling ability on my E-mode TL, but it may be defect.


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## ctange (May 6, 2013)

heywier427 said:


> and can you swap the valve body from the emode trans into another coded trans?


Posibley, if at the same time changing this internal thing:










It is from a TKA. A TL with E-mode should have one more nocth for the "E".

I would like to do the same thing as you I think:

A TJ from a gasser, with a TL diesel governor, and E-mode.


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## heywier427 (Dec 23, 2009)

Thanks for all the info!

Can anyone else with the emode transmission confirm TL is the correct code?

this is what I found, but ctange is claiming one of his TL has no emode, and the other may not work? 


"010" 3 Speed Automatic 

Code 1st 2nd 3rd R&P Notes ***reference only*** 

EQ 2.55 1.45 1.00 3.76 
TB,TC,TCA 2.55 1.45 1.00 3.57 
TF,TK 2.71 1.50 1.00 3.41 
TJ 2.71 1.50 1.00 3.12 1.8L Gasoline '85-'87 (Tq Cv - K) 
TL 2.71 1.50 1.00 3.41 1.6L Diesel (Canada)'85-'87 (Tq Cv - U) 
TNA,TN 2.71 1.50 1.00 3.41 1.8L Gasoline '85-'92 (Tq Cv - K) 


thanks.


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## heywier427 (Dec 23, 2009)

also found this which list tranny codes ive never seen:

http://www.a2resource.com/eandt/ratios.html


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## ctange (May 6, 2013)

I have had a problem with my TL.

It did not go into 1.gear when i moved the selector from N to D, only after pressing the speeder some, did it shift hard to 1. gear.

From N or P to R was OK.

These hard shifts to 1.gear was quite stressing.

So today I changed the valve-body.

In the TL-box was a valve-body with code HB.
I exchanged this with a valve-body coded FLS from a TKA-box.

This fixed the problem.

So probably there is some semi-stuck valves in the HB valve body?


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## dubluv3 (Mar 5, 2014)

hello everyone my wife has a 79 rabbit auto couple months ago it would start bogging down after the car would get hot then once it cooled down runs good again. so I didn't wanna put any money into the engine and its been sitting I found a crashed mk3 jetta auto figuring I would swap the aba with that auto trans into the rabbit but a1steaksauce said keep the 010. so now I found this thread and started reading first few pages but skipped to the end to see if people still posting and you are. so now it looks like ill prob be keeping the 010 in the car now just fig the new trans would have better shift points and higher cruising speed on the freeway with out the high rpms. well guess ill be reading the next few days to get caught up on all the info wish I woulda read more before buying the car I did then maybe woulda just bought an obd1 aba with forged internals for goin turbo later :wave:


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## 20bkombi (Nov 18, 2010)

In Australia, 
After doing a lot of R&D on the vw 010 auto and rebuilding them for customers most days of the week I decided to through one of my race autos in my wife's full weight show condition type 3 and take it to the drags.

The result on the 1/4 mile was a 10.92 @ 126.55mph. The next run was 10.94 but only 118mph backing off before the finish line, so should get down to 10.6 fairly easily. 

This was with one of my 4300rpm stall converters but only taking of at 3000rpm due to the rear street tyres being 215x35x18". ( full street )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNyBS7vJDGo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

The trans is now in my type 3 notch drag car, 13b turbo.

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=97112&page=1

This was in 2011
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=88336

Aaron Roberts


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## rychas1 (Mar 2, 2004)

Amazing! I would have never imagined a 3rotor 010


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## 20bkombi (Nov 18, 2010)

Sorry this is only a 13bt two rotor in my wife's type 3. I have a three rotor in my bus with 6sp porsche box


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## rychas1 (Mar 2, 2004)

Either one is still awesome!


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## zack718 (Apr 2, 2011)

Have an auto 84 jetta and the 1.7 head just cracked so I was gonna swap an obd2 aba into it. Want to make sure the o1o trans would bolt up. Any recommendations ?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Use the flexplate, torque converter, and starter from the 1.7, bolts right up.


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## zeerock0203 (Nov 10, 2011)

Where do you fill the ATF at?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Through the dipstick hole.


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## dubluv3 (Mar 5, 2014)

does anyone know if you can run an external oil cooler on an 010. like one you would put on a truck for towing just wondering if its possible or worth it


----------



## Rabbit6 (Dec 16, 2000)

definitely doable and worth it. anything you can do to keep the fluid temps under control will only help out with durability and reliability. There are a few different ways to accomplish the task. Some rare turbodiesel automatic bell housings had a Coolant:ATF heat exchanger which could be used as intended or easily modified for a supplying an air:ATF external cooler. Alternately, some audi 5000 auto transmissions (also 010) had supply and return ports on the end of the case. You could with minor changes use one of those transmission cases in a VW front drive, or easiest yet, copy their solution and apply it to an actual VW front drive trans. check out post #15, first page of this thread. Clearly you haven't taken the time to read the thread carefully. You'd probably find it worthwhile to do so.:thumbup:


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## dubluv3 (Mar 5, 2014)

I read the thread just been awhile since I was going to use the auto trans from the mk3 I forgot most of the stuff I read in here ill check it out again thanks


----------



## morris4life (Dec 4, 2013)

Hi everyone,
this is my first post in this forum - so hello to everyone 

I got an Audi 80 1.8S 1991 B3 with AT which has KAA 12010X numbers on it - I think it is the type of differential with VW010 gearbox.

Some time ago I broke my flexplate (I mean it broke itself).









I bought some other flexplate for my car, but it was little different. It does not have it plate like triangle shape, but it was full. And unfortunatelly I did not measure the distance between flexplate and the torque converter and I think I crushed my converter and I had terrible ATF leak because of converter seal damage during first start with that flexplate.
I get my car to the mecanic and he weld my old flexplate so he was able to put it back on my car. Yet, it is working but I can hear like some metal plates are rub each other. 

I have three questions here:
1. what kind of flexplate I can mount instead of my old one
2. how get read some converter type, oem number or whatever that help me to identify my torque converter
3. in case my converter got squeeze does anybody got original measurements

I got a picture of my converter (it is mounted to flexplate by 3 bolts):


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## vwfreek (Dec 28, 1999)

Who wants to be the first one to see if the starter from a mk4 Polo automatic will fit an 010?


----------



## Rusty Spokes (May 24, 2012)

*Valve body separator plate repair?*

Going through a 010 with 200K miles and the separator plate in the valve body is very worn where the 6mm ball works. I have looked at some other valve bodies and the separator plates all are worn in the same location..not as bad..but worn nun the less. Anyone know of a repair?

Thanks,


----------



## 99wolfsedition (Jan 22, 2007)

If no throttle cable is hooked up (Pedal-Tranny lever Assembly-Throttle Body) But instead (Pedal-Throttle Body), all is well for the tranny still and all i lose is "Kickdown" coorect?
ABA swap into 87 VW Cabriolet 010 Auto.


----------



## vwfreek (Dec 28, 1999)

99wolfsedition said:


> If no throttle cable is hooked up (Pedal-Tranny lever Assembly-Throttle Body) But instead (Pedal-Throttle Body), all is well for the tranny still and all i lose is "Kickdown" coorect?
> ABA swap into 87 VW Cabriolet 010 Auto.


If I remember correctly the shifts will be softer, and it may up-shift at lower rpm. I ran a manual trans cable in my old Rabbit for awhile, because when I got to the autocross course I would lock the trans lever in full kick-down.


----------



## 99wolfsedition (Jan 22, 2007)

vwfreek said:


> If I remember correctly the shifts will be softer, and it may up-shift at lower rpm. I ran a manual trans cable in my old Rabbit for awhile, because when I got to the autocross course I would lock the trans lever in full kick-down.


So i would maybe wont to lock the lever in place some where half way?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

The lever also controls shift pressure, sorta. 
If you want to skip the lever, splurge on the manual valvebody from Transaxle Engineering.


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## 99wolfsedition (Jan 22, 2007)

B4S said:


> The lever also controls shift pressure, sorta.
> If you want to skip the lever, splurge on the manual valvebody from Transaxle Engineering.


Anyone with a solution to the throttle cable using the 010 with aba?
:screwy:
The only reason im skipping it is because i cant get a hybrid cable working for my ABA swap, dependablitiy is what im after in this car not speed.


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## vwfreek (Dec 28, 1999)

My thought was to put a spring on the sleeve, rather than the cable. Like on some Saab or Volvo throttle cables.


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## lodermeier (Jan 10, 2011)

*010 stall converter*

If you still have it to sell ,i;m going to buy one from SINISTER, SO IF YOUR SELLING IM BUYING 


[email protected]


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## SR Heer (Jul 20, 2008)

I am looking to maybe mate a 010 up with an ABA into a Mk1 Jetta A1 frame - I have available what I think will be a TL since it comes in a 83 Rabbit and has the E mode on shifter console - and there is another tranny that is in like an 84 or 86 Cabriolet but I am having a hard time trying to find where to look to find the tranny code? 

Can anyone post a pic to help out? I have looked underneath - on top and the side so need a specific location to look that will help distinguish which auto 010 tranny I am looking at. I would think a TJ tranny would be ideal to mate to a strong ABA motor in Mk1 Jetta - any ideas or suggestions? Does anyone know of someone with a TJ box for sale? Or maybe I should look for a 5000 box -any advice on that? and if there might be someone who would have that for sell? 
Thanks for your time!

this is my email address

[email protected]


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## srgtlord (Jun 4, 2010)

Is it possible to modify the stock 010 valve body to make it fully manual? The way the transmission sits at the moment when the engine rev's start climb the trans likes to shift rather quickly. Occasionally I would like to pretend I have oodles of power :laugh:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yes, although there's no info on how to do it. Transaxle Engineering sells a full manual VB for the 010. 
I had one, and it's awesome .


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## srgtlord (Jun 4, 2010)

I thought about that...but the $500 price tag scared me away. Do you have any pics hidden away of the manual valve body?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I may have one or two, but I hosted them in this thread, so they should be here somewhere.
I wasn't brave enough to take it apart, because the bottom section was completely custom and made out of billet IIRC. Definitely NOT an item that would be easy to replicate.

You could always modify your governor to allow for higher RPM shifts, that's pretty easy. The info is in here somewhere as well.


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## mitchd43 (Jan 27, 2015)

I am building a big 2 seat long travel dune buggy with a supercharged 3.8.**

I need to run an automatic.**

I heard the 010 transaxles would do the job. I have also read about the audi 5000 turbos using the same tranny but with better internals.**

My question is what transaxle would I be needing for a 1200lb 260hp buggy?**

Would a stock vanagon be good? A stock audi 5000 turbo? I imagine if it can pull around a heavy bus it should pull a light buggy around no problem.*


Thanks for any help**

Mitch


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## mitchd43 (Jan 27, 2015)

What do I need to have an automatic transaxle that will hold up to a 260hp 1200lb buggy both on the street and in the dunes?


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## 8Vforever (Aug 27, 2013)

*Audi 010*

Hey guys,

I am looking at buying a 'RDU' code Audi 010 transmission and wondering if it's the 4-pinion planetary version from the turbo cars?

There is also a 'RDN' code and 'REE' (??) code box at the same place, I think the RDN box is from a non-turbo FWD 5000 but I could be way wrong.

These little transmissions are fantastic and seem to be quite robust from all I have read here, I look forward to working on mine 

If any of you have a manual VB or other goodies from Transaxle Engineering, please let me know! I would love to swap out this tired, old RV for an ABA/AEG hybrid


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## 8Vforever (Aug 27, 2013)

B4S.....A2TDI????

Don't tell me that all of the 010 veterans have moved on?! I just got here


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yep, unfortunately it's been years since my last 010 project. I'm still around, just not much help anymore, haha.


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## 8Vforever (Aug 27, 2013)

Hey man!

Do you still have your Rabbit? I saw the video with the MVB and it looked like a blast to drive!

I found out that the RDU is from a 5000CS 2.3, so no 4-pinion trans there, hunting for a 944 slushbox now.

I am planning to hook up a 2.5 I5 from a MKV once I get the valve body, will be a tough swap but I neeeeed MOAR cylinderz!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

No, I sold the rabbit a couple years ago. Played with jap stuff, and now have a Mk2 project (02Q manual, unfortunately  ). The big turnoff about the 010 was the terrible RPMs at cruise, but everything else was awesome.


----------



## 8Vforever (Aug 27, 2013)

Yeah, I got into Hondas for a little while after I sold my MK4 8V. They are fun and fast, but lack the character of VW and especially old VW's.

I came from the hot rod scene many years ago, so the similarities between GM's Turbo family and the 010's are nice as I already know my way around a T350/400.

As for the cruising rpms, is a TJ diff section the only choice we have to lower the gearing? This TNA box does rev a bit high at highway speeds, but it seems that those TJ's are harder to find then the bottom of the Money Pit these days. I would sell vital parts of my anatomy or perform wildly explicit sexual favours to get my hands on a TJ diff.

As for right now, getting my TNA up to full health will be priority #1 and then I will be talking to Jeff at Trans Eng. in the next month about that MVB.

Anyhow, good to see you are still prowling around here


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## vwfreek (Dec 28, 1999)

I'm putting an ABA into a Vanagon with the 010. I was looking for a throttle cable solution and came up with this. It uses the AEG 2.0 throttle cable since it is longer than the ABA cable. The kick-down spring in the cable doesn't exactly match the kick-down for the 010, so kick-down engages just slightly before full throttle. When I'm done with the Vanagon, next on the list is putting an ABA with 010 in my Rabbit truck, so I will use a similar setup for the throttle cable.


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## bentetzner (Mar 1, 2009)

*010 parts*

Greetings,
I was going to rebuild my 010, as it has over 200,000 miles on it. I cleaned my valve body, problem solved. I think this tranny will outlive me ! That being said, I have everything needed to rebuild the auto and diff sections !
Ben:wave:


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## OrganicMechanic (Jul 23, 2015)

so does anyone have the lay out on how to drill the valve body for firmer shifts? Trans in my Vanagon took a dump on me today after only 250k, go figure. I am doing a full rebuild and installing a 3.27 r&p while in there. Checking to see what I can do to lower the stall speed of the converter as well. Was hoping to find a DIY on the valve body mods, but am not finding it.

Anyone have a link to share?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Removing the accumulators is what you want to do. I tried drilling the VB, but it was a fail, and without a proper fluid schematic, it would be a LOT of experimenting.


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## OrganicMechanic (Jul 23, 2015)

B4S=awesome and thanks, My trans in my bus shat the bed, so the way I approach thing, if it breaks, upgrade!


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## 99wolfsedition (Jan 22, 2007)

Well I've got my 010 shifting properly now (Mostly) after my ABA swap in the 87 Cab and i have to say i am very pleased with it working. being a tall guy there was no way i was going to be pushing in a clutch all the time. but i have a few questions that might be able to be answered.

After my swap i just could'nt get the car to shift out of first as if it was stuck in kick down with very little pedal. so i ran my cable, pedal to throttle body, for a bet while i searched for a new cable to go from pedal to trans since mine was broken at the adjustment screw/nut/plastic bolt. running the trans in this fashion with the kickdown arm secured in mid range gave me some issues. I could not give it full power or it would kick into a type of neutrual in any gear or while shifting up between gears and made bad grinding noises but if you drove it like grandma all was great. my fear though is after driving it like this for some time i may have caused some issues...

I have a new cable , Pedal to Trans, and the old but good trans to throttle body all hooked up now, the trans to TB cable is kinda ghetto tied into a short run of throttle cable from the ABA to have enough length and the correct fitting on the end for the ABA TB lever. After some time messing about with the cable adjustments I got it pretty close to being correct but during normal driving it shifts to third at about 40mph (should be around 32 MPH???) and very clunky and hard. I can get it to shift nicely around 30-35 mph like it should if i let off the gas and get back on with out the big jerky clunk. 

how do i get rid of the clunk? do i keep messing with the adjustments on the cables? should i clean out the gov and valve body maybe? 
Do all 010s have 90mm flanges? (bought 100MM axles because it is a cabriolet but when i went to install found there were 90mm flanges on my 010 so i bought 90MM axles for a 87 jetta and put them in.)
i have a kinda popping sound also that happens on deceleration, at first i thought it was axles / C/Vs so i changed them out and its still there. Could it be the Diff maybe? hope not.

Thanks for the help.


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## Mr Brownstone (Jan 24, 2016)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/vi...start=20&sid=701c0f919f6b5a2a3e8db539fedea1c1. 
ive found this thread and it seems to match my situation exactly. is this something common. and will the thrust washer be likely to be broken if its been sitting for a few years and then been driven? 

cheers


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## gegge (Sep 6, 2015)

*010 087 uprated parts*

Hi, noobie with 3-speeds.

Looking for parts for a 087 mated to 450hp. No dragracing in mind, RWD and street tires. 

Chrome Moly pump, brakebands, inputshafts, Manual valve body...

Thanks in advance!

(I know that I should post in classifieds, but the ad would be lost with all the other ads. Better to communicate to the enthusiasts directly.)


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## Scrambles118 (Jul 23, 2015)

so. i put in a trans oil cooler because i had one laying around and well because its fun. also put in a trans temp gauge. it never registers, starts at 135F. after a highway drive i can tough the trans pan no problem. cool trans fluid is perfectly ok as long as it isnt REALLY cold, to lose lube properties. 

but i was wondering, do these 010 trans normally run on the cold side? id think, a 3 speed at 60mph and 3500 rpm would heat up decently. 

its not a nice ride, i drive a little white knuckled waiting for it to breakdown all Michael Bay style... so a trans problem wouldnt be surprising. but it shifts, doesnt slip, so i plan on running it till she dont work no more! then make it a hobby of fixing it again, what a fun car just to DO stuff too.










https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn....=ada2e07668f0045d47ef0c03f7d9edf2&oe=5774EF48


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

Vw uses the fins on the torque converter to cool the fluid. But an extra cooler is always better. I can't remember my trans temps while cruising. I had a nice long cooler from a new dodge caravan on mine and it worked great!

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Couldn't remember if I posted this link to the ATSG 

http://reflectionsandshadows.com/a1-tech/BIGATSG.pdf


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Cool, thanks for that! I have lost track of where my ATSG manual is.


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

what are the odd's of someone who has any tall ratio 010 gear set's? 

eg. TC, TD, TG, TJ, YH?

I've got a full transaxle engineering "race" spec kit with all their top of the line fruit & a high stall built. 

Just need some better suited ratios to suit a turbo'd setup & also for better hwy cruising rpm's with 22.7" tall tyres.


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## Ian91 (Mar 1, 2014)

Did anyone ever find out if a slimmer starter fits? 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## lodermeier (Jan 10, 2011)

*010 gear ratio*

What gear ratio are you looking for? Getting ready to break down 010 trans send me the code you want...loder


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## lodermeier (Jan 10, 2011)

*Starter*

NO HAVE 6 STOCK STARTERS I use diesel starter


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

lodermeier said:


> What gear ratio are you looking for? Getting ready to break down 010 trans send me the code you want...loder


Any final drive gear sets from any of these codes. 

TC, TD, TJ, YH

As long as the gearsets are matched & the prices & shipping are reasonable.


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## lodermeier (Jan 10, 2011)

*gear*

HEY, Thanks to quick response , e mail me [email protected] frontier.com .. i'll give a gear set for shipping cost have 4/5 trans to tak gears out for you . The ring and carrier will be the heavy part ..


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## lodermeier (Jan 10, 2011)

*gear*

Sorry my mistake , ring gear bolted , all i'd need to ship to you is ring gear pinnion shaft and idler loder


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## adam12er (Sep 6, 2002)

Glad to see this thread is still alive after 7 years!
I still have my 010 drag trans and may be putting it and the drag car engine in my '83 rabbit.


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## Blade3562 (Aug 17, 2012)

Add me onto this list of ever-growing 010 builders. I picked up an '88 Cabriolet that is a factory auto and I honestly love it. I'm planning to build the car as a daily so being an auto is a huge plus. Currently the car has 140,XXX and the trans shifts/drives fine. However preparing for the worst I want to know what I will need. I'm planning on a 276 or 288 cam with dual 40dcoes and a full 2.25" exhaust. (Keeping stock hydraulic head and 1.8L 8v lower). I know it's not some high HP racecar but I don't want something giving out on my way to work!

Looking for:
LSD
beefier internals
firmer/quicker shifts


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## lodermeier (Jan 10, 2011)

*convertor*

who stalled this 4500 stall, or do u still have it.


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## Scrambles118 (Jul 23, 2015)

What does one do with a 010 that isnt needed? are they valuable to sell? (Above 100 bucks?) I never could find a code on it using all the supposed locations. It is out now tho so maybe i could scour it more. Came out of a 79 scirocco.


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## toplessvw (Jul 31, 2003)

any running a 010 mated to a 1.8T ? just wondering how the stock boost curve matches the 010 shifts


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## Scrambles118 (Jul 23, 2015)

I remember doing a lot of reading up on performance mods to the 010. Never ran across pros or cons of running the 1.8T so if it never came up id say it wasn’t an issue with the boost to trans ratio. Really it’d depend more on what the 010 came out of and what year, the final drive would be the big player in how well they mate. And that would just be trial and error.

One article was guys pushing horsepower, the trans would hold and shift great but they’d always break the 90mm axles. The other issue was lack of lube and cooling to the bearings. 

Easy mods. Stiffen up the slush box’s shifting. Add a trans cooler. 
Tough mods. Drill an oil hole to the faulty bearing. I know that article is buried in here somewhere.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Just a heads up. I've got a Porsche 944 087 and a VW Golf TJ transmission that I'm going to marry with a bunch of mods/tricks to get it to work. I believe the 087 will have a different ratio 3 speed with a 4 planet gear set. The TJ ring/pinion will allow a lower engine RPM at freeway speeds. A Peloquin 80% mini slip is in the works too. 90mm to 100mm axles are also part of the mods. All for a 91 Cabriolet.

One thing that is mentioned in this thread is the oil cooler modification. It does not seem right that you would tap into the pressure side of the transmission. Coolers are normally installed on the return side of the torque converter. I need to find out how to do that. 

I do not do pictures but I believe I need to start doing that.

Stay tuned.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

So the first TJ transmission is DOA. There was water in the case and therefore ruined one of the differential gears. Sucks to be me. So I ordered another one. Just $400 down the drain. Oh well, if I need parts, I should have a bunch left over.

But the good news is that the Porsche transmission is a 4 planet gear set. I quickly took things apart and I'm happy to say the clutches are not overheated and are in good shape. I will be replacing the clutches anyway, but it's nice to know that there was not anything major going on. Nice bronze bushings instead of the plastic version in the VW 010. The case numbers are the same and appear to be that way. Once I get things apart further, I will know better. 

More to come, pictures coming too.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

So I've spent some time looking at the cooling options that VW have used for this transmission. The Vanagon version [090] has cooler ports in the back of the housing [or is it the front because it's mounted backwards?], the Porsche [087] has them on the side of the differential housing, and the Audi [087] has them on the back like the Vanagon [correct me if I'm wrong].

I have checked the Porsche and the cooling ports are on the torque converter drain side. That makes sense because the oil coming out of the torque converter is hotter than any other oil in the transmission. So if you could cool that oil before it gets dumped into the pan, then that is good. Since it's just returning oil, you are not messing with the pressure side of the system. 

I have looked at the Vanagon/Audi and have not seen any literature that shows where the oil is coming or going. Someday I may find out but at this time the answer is, I do not know.

Looking at Transaxle Engineering site [https://www.transaxleengineering.com/3-speed-auto] they seem to tap into the drain portion of the torque converter too. If you read their site long enough you will find out where they say it's better than the factory oil cooler ports at the back of the case. 

So with the TJ differential housing, where do you tap into the converter drain so you can divert that to the cooler? That is where I'm at. I believe I can drill or weld an aluminum fitting into the drain port before it gets to the transmission case. It's easy to plug the port, but not so easy to divert the oil. 

So the earlier post on page 1 is not ideal since I believe they are tapping into the pressure side and the pump can only flow so much. Any pressure diverted would be pressure lost that the pump may not be able to keep up with. That and wouldn't it be best to cool the hottest oil before it gets to the pan? 

More to follow and yes, pictures too.


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## adam12er (Sep 6, 2002)

We run one of the "built" 010's in our drag car. We spent a lot of time working with Jeff at Transaxle to get these boxes to work for drag racing. They are probably tapping off the back for the cooler because they run such higher pressure. He offers an upgraded pump drive along with the high pressure from the reverse / manual valve body. You should be able to build a very strong transmission. Our limiitation in the front wheel drive configuration was the input shaft. Jeff made a run of 300M shafts. There is a lot of info in this thread.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

It's just a smart move to cool the hottest oil before it goes to the pan. The other advantage is that this hot oil have very little pressure too. Overall, it's a pretty simple decision where to cool the oil. Cool the hot low pressure oil.

After tearing apart the torque converter drain port, the check ball is substantially larger on the Porsche vs VW. I believe the feed ports to the converter are the same but I need to confirm that. I'm going to enlarge the drain port hole in the VW case to match the size of the Porsche. I will install a ball check somewhere else in the cooler line [before the cooler] so the torque converter will not drain back. I do not believe I can do that successfully in the stock location but that's my first choice. I believe enlarging the drain port will allow more flow out of the converter and therefore allow more cooling. I need to confirm the pressure side of it can keep up. It should, I just need to confirm.

As for drag racing, that is not me. So I believe I will be ok with the stock stuff. I'm going to look into adding more clutches, firming up the accumulator, and raising the main pressure but no harden shafts for me. Just a stronger street transmission that you can do at home. 

I've read all the pages of this thread. There is a lot of information on them but I just wanted to add my twist on other peoples fixes.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

I spent some time with this torque converter drain circuit and took out the calipers to do some measuring.

010 087
2.5mm drain orifice 2.5mm
4.7mm drain tube 8.0mm
3.5mm check ball 5.9mm
2.5mm check ball orifice 4.75mm

So the drain orifice [just under the bushing] is 2.5mm on both transmissions but everything else is larger on the 087. I would like to enlarge the drain orifice slightly to allow more cooling but I'm not certain what pressure change would be inside the converter. If I did enlarge the orifice, then I know I would have to move the check ball since I doubt if I could machine a nice sealing surface so a larger ball could do it's job. I see no drawbacks about moving the check ball.

I'm real certain I will be tapping the drain port at the aluminum differential housing just before it dumps into the transmission housing. Plugging the hole at the exit port should be easy. Returning the cooled oil to the transmission housing is something I have not decided upon but I'm not stressed about either.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

B4S said:


> Found a link to a ton of VAG self-study manuals, and there is an 010 one...although it's all in german. It's sorta helpful because it shows there are TWO ports feeding fluid to the accumulator, not just one. Pages 46-47 are of particular fun, it shows exactly what is receiving/sending fluid pressure with the stick in 'D' . The accumulator is only half-deleted, according to those pages. That's the closest thing to fluid diagrams I have been able to find .
> 
> http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_8.PDF
> 
> There are a LOT more self-study guides there, but all the early stuff is in german.


Anyone need a translation of this manual, I just cracked it. PM me if you want a copy.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Finally my second TJ transmission came in, the pinion shaft bearing is welded to the pinion shaft. Damn. The same exact part ruined. I talked to a machine shop and he indicated that if I welded it, he could grind the surface to spec. $250. With all the money I've dumped into this, I could have had a custom gear made. 

Oh well, it's just money, I'll have to make more.


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## adam12er (Sep 6, 2002)

Hey Butcher, how about this cooler: http://www.van-cafe.com/automatic-transmission-cooler
http://www.van-cafe.com/automatic-transmission-cooler

Not sure how much room you have behind your transmission.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

I noticed the older turbo diesel transmissions had a factory transmission cooler that was attached to the differential housing. So guess what I'm searching for?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...bo-diesel&highlight=turbo+diesel+transmission [picture of the cooler]. It appears with this housing, they are tapping into the oil ports where I want to. If I can get this housing, then I would not have too.

The Vanagon set up is attached to the rear of the transmission. I believe that they are getting the hot oil at the oil pump overflow [return]. I would rather get the hot oil at the torque converter and cooling it before it gets to the pan vs getting it at the oil pump.

What is happening now? After purchasing the second TJ transmission, I found the pinion shaft bearing seized to the shaft. Not wanting to search/purchase a third transmission I searched for repair options. I found a local place that does flame welding. They have the shaft now and he told me that it should not be a problem on fixing it. Just another $250 wasted. By the time I get a good ring/pinion set up, it will cost me at least $1000. Oh well, I'll just have to make more money.


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## eric_pullen (Aug 14, 2017)

*Rebuilding 010 Trans*

I have been away from the Mk1/Mk2 VW community for awhile, but I'm back now. Picked up a 1992 Wolfsburg Cabriolet with a bad auto trans for my son who will be driving in the next year. Would drive in first, but never upshift and would not go into reverse. I have always only had manual VWs in the past so this is the first auto trans rebuild I have attempted. Bought a rebuild kit and several other parts, I have now taken the trans completely apart and put it back together about 4 times as I get everything to fit back together :banghead:. Finally noticed inside bearing on the input shart (pinion?) is bent so time to try and find one and replace it. Always looking for info on the transmission, hopefully when it goes back in the car it will go .


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## A320FlyGuy (Sep 21, 2010)

*010 Automatic Transmission Questions*

Hey Guys;

I am sorry to be bringing this thread back from the dead, but I have a few questions about the 010 that I wanted to run past the experts here...

I am in the process of restoring the 1990 Jetta GLI that my Mom bought new back in 1990. This car was sold in Canada and had a TNA automatic from the factory along with a 1.8L Digifant 8V engine. Before you tell me that this is impossible, I did get the "birth certificate" from Volkswagen in German and it confirmed the vehicle was built this way. I am going to be mating the transmission to an ABA bottom end.

In any case, I wanted to get some information on a few things...

1. What are some of the seals that should be replaced on this transmission?
2. If I remove the differential cover to replace the differential cover seal, can I refill the differential through the speedometer cable drive?
3. While the transmission is out of the car, should I replace the torque converter seal?
4. Any other maintenance tasks that I should do while the transmission is out of the car?

Here is a pictures of the transmission:




Thanks!


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## tinygiant (Mar 17, 2012)

Anyone have any tricks to installing the gear selector cable?

Part 171713265C

I got the set screw end off the cable at the selector arm end. 

Does the thicker rubber gromet that sits in the bracket just pop out and pop in? 

I also had to cut the cable and pull it through the cabin as it seemed to be getting hung up somewhere. Is there a trick to feeding it back through? 

Thanks for any help. A video would be awesome. But i couldnt find one


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## tinygiant (Mar 17, 2012)

tinygiant said:


> Anyone have any tricks to installing the gear selector cable?
> 
> Part 171713265C
> 
> ...




I got up a little early today and was able to fish a coat hanger from the cabin to the engine bay with a loop to hook on to the eye to pull the new cable through. 

I am having a heck of a time getting out the old cable from the mounting bracket. The "oreo" of rubber grommets that mount to the bracket are proving very hard to get to. In addition to that I can't quite figure out how to get a wrench on either side of it to potentially loosen the sleeve nut on either side..


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

This thread is not very active but I could try and take some pictures of the cable in my wife's car. I restored the Cabriolet recently and I not recall having issues with the cable on either end.


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## tinygiant (Mar 17, 2012)

I was able to figure it out. The next morning with less Frustration I was able to get it all out and installed. I did manage to ruin the little rubber thing on the end. So I’ll have to hit up the junkyard for another one. Other than that it’s running great and will be inspected today


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## mrgti1983 (Sep 11, 2005)

The rod ended up getting bent after this picture was taken. So thinking I will need to dismantle the transmission and try to push it through the transmission.

I'm expecting damage in the bore and was wondering can I get it bored out and a larger piston rod inserted or is this transmission garbage?


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## FastCougar (Dec 8, 2001)

You are going to have to remove the bent rod first, then measure it's diameter and then have a machine shop turn down a new rod exactly the same diameter to use a a guide rod to check rod play within the bore. If there is too much slop, it's toast. Cheaper and easier to just pick up a junkyard unit and rebuild that while it's out.


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## piledriver (Jul 29, 2008)

My speedo flaked (amongst other issues found when inspecting trans) on my 86 Cabby, pulled the speedometer drive gear pinion replaced a couple years ago, good news is its fine.
Bad news the speedo drive spur gear on the diff is ~balding, eventually tracked to part# 010409187B , which seems to be only stocked by a ebay seller in Latvia...

Took longer than expected to track down the part#, figured this was a good place for it.
(long discontinued by VW)


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## doctorlambo (Oct 22, 2021)

Hello! We just bought a nice 1988 cabriolet. 100k miles and automatic. Reverse works, but the car will not drive forward. Is this a common issues? Any ideas where to start? Thanks!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Make sure that your shifter cable is pulling into the detents of the selector shaft. A loose cable can cause these issues. Also make sure that the shifter pod can manually be moved in to all gear positions.


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## doctorlambo (Oct 22, 2021)

Ok....car finally arrived. Reverse works just fine. 1,2, and D do not seem to engage at all. The automatic shifter moves freely. When I shift into reverse, you can feel the car move into reverse. The other 3 gears do nothing. It feels like the transmission is not being "told" to go into gear.

Im not the best with transmission work, but isnt 1 and R connected in some way? I seems like if the first gear was out, reverse would be too.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

There is no quick answer to your question. Automatic transmission are pretty simple, especially that one. The problem is that too many people work on their own car that probably should not be. 

I would suggest that you study how automatic transmissions work then study how that transmission works. Once you grasp all the ins and outs on the principles how it works, then you can disassemble this transmission to find out what the cause is.

Sorry, there really is not any simple answer to your question. I'm certain, without a doubt, the problem is inside the transmission and you'll have to take it apart to find the root cause. The second problem you will have is finding parts. You could also find a used one, that's what most people do. Sadly, you'll never know what went wrong and you never know what you will get with a 30 year old used transmission.


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## doctorlambo (Oct 22, 2021)

I was able to check it out last night. In the area of the engine, the gear selector cable has deteriorated and has 2” of the cable exposed. When I select gears, it appears to bundle up rather that slide. I think it may be an easy fix!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Yes, you are right, 1 and R are connected. They use the same Cable to position the gears to the tranny.
You may want to verify that the shifter Cable isn't binding between gear selection or that the cable lock barrel bolt is loose or out of the mechanism.


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## doctorlambo (Oct 22, 2021)

Ok...not as simple as I imagined. First of all, I recall there is a spring that attaches to the transmission shield. Thats gone, and I dont know what it is for. 

Also, I removed the wheel to get to filler. I appears that there is a plug missing here. There are two plugs. One is up high, I believe to fill the ATF. The other is down close to the pan. This was missing. 

I took the valve body cover off and there was a screw floating around in the pan. Not sure where it went yet. 

The last thing is that what fluid was in there was black, and it appears to have also leaked over to the flywheel area and got spun around there. 

Anyone know what that missing spring was for? Which hole to I fill ATF into? There isnt much to read on these!


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Pictures would work wonders. 

If you got oil in the front, it could be differential oil or transmission. If it is transmission, could be the torque converter seal. If it is that, then the front bushing could be FUBAR. 

Pictures would surely help.


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## doctorlambo (Oct 22, 2021)




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## doctorlambo (Oct 22, 2021)

That’s the missing plug


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## doctorlambo (Oct 22, 2021)




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## doctorlambo (Oct 22, 2021)

Here is the filter. Really dirty! And the missing bolt.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

The missing plug is a hole for the mounting bracket. Although I may be wrong, I'm pretty certain I'm right. I believe there is a crash guard that gets mounted there. I will see if I can get a picture of mine.

As for the bolt, was it one of the filter mounting bolts?

With that much debris, I would try and find a used one to reseal. You could tear that apart but if there is any small/hard part that has failed, it may be difficult to find a used/new one. 

The Vanagon uses a similar transmission and many of the parts are the same. Try looking at this tread. It has many pictures and was written up well. Lots of pages but when you get done, you will know if it's something you want to get into or now.




__





TheSamba.com :: Vanagon - View topic - Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle


Classified ads, photos, shows, links, forums, and technical information for the Volkswagen automobile



www.thesamba.com


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## doctorlambo (Oct 22, 2021)

Thanks! Ill check it out!


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