# 2004 Beetle stalling during warm weather only???



## bturis (Mar 29, 2015)

My 2004 Beetle started stalling while driving last summer. It only does it when the temperature outside is hot and only on a drive over 20+ miles or so. It's almost as if it's fuel starved. Codes throw only "general " numbers and nothing specific. Very frustrating indeed.  
Cleaned the fuel filter as it seemed to be possibly blocked and the situation resolved, or so I thought until this summer when the temps outside were warm and once again, same issue when driving during the warm day time hours. :screwy:
Anyone else have this summer issue?


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Those symptoms, I have experienced; were typically down to a failing crank/speed sensor or a dying fuel pump. A crank/speed sensor dying; will typically, throw a trouble code but a fuel pump most likely will not but a 409 fuel pump relay, would. A dying fuel pump; can cause misfires, lean codes and other "symptoms" of a greater problem, fuel starvation. If you have a scan tool with "live data" capability; you might check the fuel trims and see if they are beyond + or - 10%; that would indicate a problem and require further investigation: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Fuel_Trim_Info

You might try a fuel pump pressure test and see if it is in spec and go from there. With failing fuel pumps; I have noticed they died, in the high heat of summer here in New Mexico when the temps went over 100 degrees f. Heat, seems to be the enemy of fuel pumps and sensors; there being a direct correlation between heat and their malfunction or failure. Before spending the money on a fuel pump; replace the fuel filter first and see if that makes any difference. For fuel pumps, go OEM ONLY, sub $100 fuel pumps from your typical auto parts stores are junk, prematurely fail, cannot maintain needed fuel pressure and cost more money, downtime in the long run. Stick with oem VDO/Siemens and Bosch; both high quality and will last, perform as they should. Do it once and do it right with high quality oem parts. For a crank/speed sensor; get oem Bosch, 'nuff said. 

Fuel pump testing: 

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...l_pressure/system_information/specifications/

crank/speed sensor location and testing: 

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...speed_sensor/component_information/locations/

If you are getting ANY trouble codes; please post up the codes themselves (not just descriptions). Let us know; about the trouble codes, results of fuel pressure testing and we can go from there. Thanks! :wave:


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## BrewDude (Nov 3, 2000)

Just went through this on my daughter's 06 Beetle. Ran fine when the temps weren't blazing hot then would stumble on its face and die. No codes attributed to it and got random misfires. 

Changed out the fuel pump and filter, runs like a champ now. I did not change out the 409 relay as another possibility since it may have been getting hot, but a relay either works or it doesn't in my experience.

And how did you "clean" the fuel filter? They are not meant to be cleaned, merely replaced.


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## bturis (Mar 29, 2015)

*Billymade: Will do...will get info*

Thank you! I will get another set of codes read and posted today as well as check into the pressure test. 
I actually thought about doing that but decided against it as I checked the pressure at the fuel rail and it is fantastic. However, I didn't take into consideration that it probably would be if the starving/stalling issue wasn't happening concurrently. :banghead:
LOL.....Daddy taught his little girl a lot about vehicle maintenance but mostly just the basics. The rest has been learn as I go....tear it apart, figure it out and put it back together. Just at a loss with the newer vehicles and all the spaghetti, sensors and gagillion other possible causes for something that was once so obvious. You Tube is a fabulous teaching aide, by the way....:laugh: 
Remember when timing was just a lift and tooth turn of the distributor or when a dying starter didn't have to mean being stranded somewhere so long as you had a long enough screw driver to give a whack? LOL...oh how I miss those days.
In any event, I will get the info posted here in an hour or so. 
Thank you again! :thumbup:


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## bturis (Mar 29, 2015)

*I know, I know....*

I do understand that they are not meant to be cleaned and I realize that most reading this are probably thinking I'm some silly female that doesn't know what she's talking about. Believe me when I tell you that I, myself, thought I must be dangerously close to becoming a bubble head and still laugh that I even thought to try, but as I was at a loss and quite broke at the time I did the only thing I thought to be a possible option and didn't know if it would work or not. I think in such terms as "if you don't ask, the answer is always NO". In this case, if I didn't try, I would never know and so I reached outside the box and rolled the dice. Does that make sense?
So I took off the filter and blew like hell and to my amazement, a bunch of gunk came out and kept coming out. {I'm really bad about driving until my tank is on fumes and we all know what that eventually leads to when you're basically bottom feeding from your fuel tank and using the cheapest fuel at the pump}.
Anyway, it seemed to work as the problem ceased and the weather cooled off within 2 weeks of doing a McGyver stunt on my filter and I had not a single issue for nearly a year. 
Unfortunately, this summer has proved that the issue still remains. So maybe the blow trick worked just long enough to get me over the summer hump.....it was pretty dirty and I will be replacing it this time around.





BrewDude said:


> Just went through this on my daughter's 06 Beetle. Ran fine when the temps weren't blazing hot then would stumble on its face and die. No codes attributed to it and got random misfires.
> 
> Changed out the fuel pump and filter, runs like a champ now. I did not change out the 409 relay as another possibility since it may have been getting hot, but a relay either works or it doesn't in my experience.
> 
> And how did you "clean" the fuel filter? They are not meant to be cleaned, merely replaced.


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## scottyboy24 (Mar 31, 2015)

*Crankshaft Position Sensor Replacement*

Billy, I just got diagnosed at the local VW dealer and need a CPS # 07k906433b

Can you help me out with the location of this sensor?

2010 Beetle 2.5 /BPR

>>>>>>> Also, please let me know if there are other names this part may be called?<<<<<<<<<<<< IS THIS THE SAME THING AS A INTAKE AIR TEMP SENSOR BY CHANCE?

The reason I ask is the 2 codes I pulled was P0113 & P0102





I also wanted to post this for others to see.

If your car stalls and goes dead occasionally-frequently at red lights, sitting in driveway, ect....., yet runs good at all other times/speeds/rpms be sure to check this part, because that is what my beetle has been doing for a long time now, and according to VW shop this should fix it.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Ok, first let's look at the trouble codes and their definitions: 

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16497/P0113/000275

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16486/P0102/000258

Both of these codes; are related to the MAF and IAT sensor; in some MAF's, these are integrated into the same part, on certain engines. I would be looking at live data and try some "wiggle" testing, as you view live data of the maf. It is not uncommon; for the plugs/terminal ends to get loose, the plastic gets cracked and this cause a intermittent connectivity issue. In my case, the internal plastic "lock"; which is red colored, was cracked, part of it was missing and was causing the terminal ends to be loose and throw trouble codes. So, I bought a new plug; removed the terminal ends and replaced the plug housing and the problems, went away. The MAF itself; could be bad as well but I would want to confirm, that with looking at live data and view, what the ecu is "seeing", to confirm it is working the grams per second, are as they should be. New plug/housings; can be purchased online or through your local VW dealer, I bought mine at my local VW dealer and it didn't cost very much. 

As for your crank position sensor; that is a totally different part and unrelated to the above codes. The CPS, is defined as this: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankshaft_position_sensor

Basically, it gives the info; the ecu needs, to produce the ignition signal to the coils and other things, so the car ignition functions. For replacement; I ALWAYS, stick with genuine Bosch sensors, they are the oem for VW at the factory and are the best quality, to put on your car. Obviously, if your crank sensor; is intermittently cutting out, the car will die and stall; this tends to happen when the engine is up to operating temps but while it is cold, the sensor can work fine. Buying a Bosch branded part and not from the VW dealer; can save you a lot of money and it is the same part, just without the VW/AUDI logos on it. 

I always, use the Bosch online auto parts catalog; to find the right part number and then, look online, for the best price.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Looking on the Bosch part's site; I am seeing these, for your car: (always confirm with your VIN #): 

Mass Airflow SensorsBosch is an original equipment global leader in mass air flow technology. Bosch Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensors ensure low levels of harmful emissions with greater fuel efficiency and improved engine performance.
Engine Designation: BPR,BPS

Installation Restrictions: Actual OE part

Part Number:
0280218071

Now, for the crankshaft position sensor; the Bosch catalog, doesn't come up with anything. I suppose, it is possible; someone else (AEB Germany), made it for VW. Searching online; ecs tuning, seems to have a good price for a genuine vw part @ about $85 with free shipping or $55 on Amazon and fcpeuro, has a "oem" version or Hella, for about $40-$50 with a lifetime warranty.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

For replacement; here is some info, from the service manual, which should help you replace the part and get you back on the road! 

Note: this service manual is for a: New Beetle Convertible L5-2.5L (BPR) (2007) (however, I believe it should be similar for your car): 


location: 

#12 Engine Speed (RPM) Sensor (G28)

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...speed_sensor/component_information/locations/

testing and inspection: 

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...or/component_information/locations/page_4682/

I'm not seeing specific replacement info; in the service manual, so this video might be helpful, to walk you through the process. This is a 2.5L Mark V Golf/Rabbit but should be similar: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt1KcosPUMQ


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