# Oil Pump Chain Replacement on 1.8t without pulling engine?



## Teerav (Oct 1, 2013)

*Long read, many photos, sorry in advance, and this was originally posted to the MK4 forum here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7513738-Oil-Pump-Chain-and-other-fun-after-hitting-a-rock-(GTI-1-8t)*

About 5 weeks ago, a friend of mine was driving her 2003 GTI 1.8t with 160k on it in some back roads and came around a corner with some speed only to encounter a big ass rock. Went under the bumper, past the radiator, and onward to the Oil Pan. It decimated the pan as seen below.









My MK3 Harlequin in the background










In doing this, It also took out the oil Pump seen here










It also got the Oil Pump Chain in the process as well. After passing those parts it hit the right control arm and subframe where they connect and where I assume the rock shattered because nothing further back from there is damaged. My friend pulled straight off the road, and turned off the car (maybe within 10-15 seconds of impact). She looked under the car which was just black from oil that had dumped out every where and called for a tow. The car was never started again with the damaged engine. She called me a few days later since she couldn't repair it at her place and said they quoted her 2K for Oil Pan, pump, and control arm (all they said at that time). She didn't have the means to repair it or pay for it. So she offered it to me for 1000$. I wanted the wheels on it originally (17" VW Monte Carlo's for my Corrado), but I figured for a few hundred bucks, I should be able to fix the car enough and flip it. So it sat for a bit while I finished my other projects and fast forward to yesterday. I pulled the pan, and the remains of the Oil Pump (below), and the engine block had no damage. Crank appears to be intact and undamaged. Took inventory of the parts needed (Oil Pump, Oil Pump Pickup spout, Oil Pan, Baffle plate, and Oil Pump Chain) to get the engine turning again before I dropped any money on the Subframe and Control Arm (It can limp a few blocks around the neighborhood to make sure the engine is completely trashed, and i'll likely just source the subframe from a junk yard when the time comes). Thats where I ran into a big problem.

The Oil Pump Chain I assumed was going to be an open chain with a clip :screwy: (stupid right). So I figured I'd thread it up far enough to get it over a few splines and manually turn the engine a single 1 or 1.5 turns to attach the chain back to its self. I could verify the engine isn't ceased and get the chain connected. Well in my infinite stupidity didn't look and notice the chain was a single piece. So I now know I'm going to need to pull the front of the engine off to put the chain over the sprocket. I also found out the chain Tensioner has a small crack in it as well, and with pressure appears to be ok, but I'd rather just replace it while i'm in there so I'm not coming back in 20 miles after it explodes in the oil pan. So It's looking more and more like the lower front of the engine will have to be pulled. It doesn't look impossible, and the Bentley looks to only have 6 bolts holding it in (below again), but It also has a wheel attached to the sprocket where the chain goes that connects to the main belt on the car.

So i'm reaching out to the experts for help. I don't have the tools or space to pull the engine, so If I can avoid that, it would be ideal. Thats question one, can I do this without the engine moving. Two would be, the belt that's attached to the sprocket, is this a timed belt? Am I going to trash things by removing it and just putting it back? And lastly, should I just cut my losses and call this finished? Is this even worth my time with the age and mileage on the engine?

I feel confident on replacing everything else except the chain. If that was still there, I'd of probably been done with this whole thing already I feel like. I've never gone this far into an engine before, and feel a little over my head, but the chain is the icing on the cake at this point. The car isn't in service mode, and hasn't had the front end taken off, everything has been accessed from under the car, and I'm really hoping that I can continue doing just that. Any help you can provide me with in this situation would be awesome. The car is in great shape. Zero rust, full service records, engine isn't caked in sludge, and the body is almost flawless. Interior is like 8/10 (drivers seat wear), but grey leather and everything on the car works. Here are some photos of the engine and damage. 









Block and damaged Subframe and Control Arm. The wheel and belt i'd need to pull is on the left side, and the pipe to the left of that is where i'm hoping to make enough room to pull the wheel and front end off without taking the engine out.









Chain sprocket and if you look super closely you can see the crack in the tensioner.









No damage from where the pan was blown off and nothing broken on the block









Whole bottom end, pretty clean for its age. Was maintained every 5k on full synthetic since day 1.









Bentley Instructions on Engine Lubrication system (17-6 for 1.8T). I'm most worried about 1, 2, 3, 4, and 24 without pulling the engine.

So again, thanks for the long read and any help you can give me on this. I'd really like to get it running again and probably daily it so I can stop putting mileage on my Harlequin and Corrado. Cheers :beer:

Couple quick small shots of the car overall.


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## c3cars (Dec 27, 2010)

Let me put it to you in this perspective.
I was in the same situation as you are. I was offer a 2003 MazdaSpeed Protege with a compression less engine for $1000 also. I bought it! I didn't go into the trouble of replacing the engine components, I just replaced the whole engine. I bought a used engine with 75,000 miles and replaced it. 
Now I did have the garage, tool and knowledge to rebuilt or replace the engine. So my advice, don't buy it if you don't have the time and space to fix it. Knowledge is a huge determinate in this as well. 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

I've done it without pulling the engine.... 

Pull the accessories off of the engine, then pull the timing belt, Put two slightly cut down 2X4's between the crank and the block walls and then a hell of a breaker bar on the 19MM 12PT Bolt on the crank and remove it, Remove the Crank bolt, Then timing belt pulley, then front main, install the pump chain and tensioner, Install new front main, reinstall timing belt pulley, New crank bolt, Flip the 2X4's in the block and Torque the crank bolt, and continue re-assembling. 

if the cars even CLOSE to a timing belt change, do so now as well. 

its not that bad of a job, and actually easier to do while its in the chassis due to the torque of the crank bolt!


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## Teerav (Oct 1, 2013)

c3cars said:


> So my advice, don't buy it if you don't have the time and space to fix it. Knowledge is a huge determinate in this as well.


So I hear you on this one, but let me state again that at the time of looking the car over and having a VW mechanic inspect the car, he quoted only the few parts to be replaced (pan, pump, control arm). I looked it over and noticed it would need a little more than that, but also never thought it couldn't be down below the car since it only appeared to be oil pan type stuff. And I never thought forward to chain issue which I am now in. So now i just need to overcome this issue here and I should be fine knowledge wise to get this going again. 



AmIdYfReAk said:


> if the cars even CLOSE to a timing belt change, do so now as well.
> 
> its not that bad of a job, and actually easier to do while its in the chassis due to the torque of the crank bolt!


Thanks for the heads up! I'll see what I can do. In your opinion, think it's worth my time to try to get this thing going again? Or should I just say screw it. But for now, to learn how to replace the timing belt on this guy... :beer:


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## PoorMansDub (Nov 28, 2010)

Dude you're already balls deep just keep going. At this point you can simply just do werk (without spending money) and see where it takes you. If you need to do a timing belt job add a few extra hundred. Buy the parts at a place that will let you return it maybe and if you get down to the nitty gritty and say fark it then take back your parts and have the piece towed off for metal money, or sell it with all the parts to someone who can fix it.

I think it's definitely worth it if everything was running well before she auto crossed onto a rock. Plus you say it has tons of service records, when was the timing belt last done? 30 thousand or less miles you could most likely get away with not doing that and saving it for another time. 

Just do it!!! and good luck. :beer:


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Without knowing too much, it looks clean enough that i'd do the work,that'd a sat afternoon and test drive Sunday kinda deal.


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## fastinradford (Aug 3, 2010)

http://www.idparts.com/metalnerd-crank-yank-tool-all-cylinder-p-3550.html

crank yank is what you need.

and you need a new crank bolt, and main seal,

its so tight i have broken the end off of a 3/4 in water pipe as a breaker bar


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## Teerav (Oct 1, 2013)

PoorMansDub said:


> Dude you're already balls deep just keep going. At this point you can simply just do werk (without spending money) and see where it takes you. If you need to do a timing belt job add a few extra hundred. Buy the parts at a place that will let you return it maybe and if you get down to the nitty gritty and say fark it then take back your parts and have the piece towed off for metal money, or sell it with all the parts to someone who can fix it.
> 
> I think it's definitely worth it if everything was running well before she auto crossed onto a rock. Plus you say it has tons of service records, when was the timing belt last done? 30 thousand or less miles you could most likely get away with not doing that and saving it for another time.
> 
> Just do it!!! and good luck. :beer:





AmIdYfReAk said:


> Without knowing too much, it looks clean enough that i'd do the work,that'd a sat afternoon and test drive Sunday kinda deal.


Thanks guys. I hoping it'll be that simple. I'm just a little hesitant on diving in, but its pretty much my only choice at this point. I did find a timing belt/pulley/water pump (steel blades) combo for 200$ i'm not opposed to throwing on it. I'm not sure when it was done last, and today I'll be popping off the belt cover and taking a peek at it. It's one of those "If I'm already here might as well" kind of things though. Even if it was within the last 30k, If i can get another 60 out of it from here, it's probably worth it. I think it was within the last 30k-ish it was done. But I haven't seen that record to confirm.

One final question, specifically about the sprocket. Without investing in a tool i'd probably only ever use once (Crank Yank tool for 180$ :what, you mentioned pinning some wood down to hold it in place to get that bolt free. You have an example by any chance or a pic? I've seen a number of people talking about different ways to do it (Mostly by ebrake, 5th gear, and single engine crank to get it free) which i'm not comfortable with being the engine hasn't had and doesn't have oil in it. I just want to make sure I don't damage anything else while i'm in there. Someone also mentioned tennis balls in the crank case(?). Either or, I'll probably go through with this and try to get it free. 

Thanks for the help again guys. Owe you both a drink.


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

sadly i don't have any pics of what i'm talking about, but i take roughly 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch of wood out of the width of the 2x4 and it slides up the block. 
I'll do that with two pieces and then the big ends of the rods and the crank will be butted up against the wood and the wood will be wedged up to the side of the block. 

When you start cranking the bolt, the wood will start to crush a little, that bolt is tight , and it is normal, but it will give way!


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## PoorMansDub (Nov 28, 2010)

This may sound crazy but once I just got a new sprocket and used a chain vice grip, used a jack handle to wedge it and used a pretty massive cheater pipe to break that bolt loose. I was just about to weld the chain to the sprocket right before it finally gave way. I mangled up the sprocket to high hell but I had the new one to slap on. The blocks of wood sound like your best bet but it can definitely be done. I mean really you can just give two sh*ts and go at it like a mad man, what do you have to lose at this point?


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## Teerav (Oct 1, 2013)

AmIdYfReAk said:


> sadly i don't have any pics of what i'm talking about, but i take roughly 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch of wood out of the width of the 2x4 and it slides up the block.
> I'll do that with two pieces and then the big ends of the rods and the crank will be butted up against the wood and the wood will be wedged up to the side of the block.
> 
> When you start cranking the bolt, the wood will start to crush a little, that bolt is tight , and it is normal, but it will give way!





PoorMansDub said:


> This may sound crazy but once I just got a new sprocket and used a chain vice grip, used a jack handle to wedge it and used a pretty massive cheater pipe to break that bolt loose. I was just about to weld the chain to the sprocket right before it finally gave way. I mangled up the sprocket to high hell but I had the new one to slap on. The blocks of wood sound like your best bet but it can definitely be done. I mean really you can just give two sh*ts and go at it like a mad man, what do you have to lose at this point?



You both rock. I'll see what I can come up with with the wood setup you advised and if all else fails, Chain grip the sprocket and see where it gets me. 

Also in a scouting mission locally up here in Portland, found a local place that get me down another 25% on my total parts cost (sub 400$ now!) for Pan, Pump, Chain, Main Seal, Baffle, Timing Belt, Chain Tensioner, and Belt Tensioner. Water pump loos likely that it's a metal impeller and shouldn't have to be touched (won't know for sure till i'm in there). 

I'll post up the results in a bit once I have a spare day to dive in and possibly get this dude fixed. Thanks again for all the help and guidance.


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Not bad! 

Most local shops around here are $1000 for just the timing belt job alone! ( Canadian mind you )


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## Teerav (Oct 1, 2013)

So reporting back on this cluster of a repair.

After finally committing to the repair and getting started, I scooped myself a new set of jackstands, new low profile jack, and some odds and ends 12 point impact sockets to complete the repair (cost about 100$ for those). Started pulling parts off the engine, got most of the top end dismantled, and started to work on the harmonic balancer. Instantly ran into issues. 2 of the 4 allen heads were stripped. I attempted to hammer a larger size allen in, and that failed. Attempted to JB weld an allen head to each bolt to socket them out once it had dried. Left it for ~24-30 hours, and gave them a crank. First one didn't hold and the allen popped out. The second did hold and came out, and even recovered the allen head later. So here I am stuck with one bolt in the harmonic balancer and unable to get any farther. I bought a set of the stripped screw removers that would support a bolt this large (6mm). Started to work on it, and just couldn't get a grip on it. Finally committed to drilling the damn thing out and just replacing the toothed Crank wheel for the timing belt. i'm about 75% of the way through the screw head and decided to give the remover one last shot. It hooked the head, and cranked it right out. Massive sigh of relief.

Marked up the timing belt as seen on about 15 videos and 20 websites/articles. Did my best to find TDC. Made a custom tool for replacement of VW 3415 with a plasma cutter and drill press at a friends shop, and it came out rather nice actually. Just about a 36" bar of 3/8's steel (pic below). Bought a 36" breaker bar and pulled the engine off it's mount onto a jack and 2x4. Bolted up the tool and was ready to give that Crank bolt absolute hell. Stepped in hard to the tool and went in for a big pull to break it free. It required almost no force. Just came undone. :facepalm: So anyways, I carried onward into the depths of the engine. Fought the motor mount the whole way (never pulled it out of the bay, just kept moving it. Turns out the timing belt was done at 160k, and at 171k currently, it was almost new (including the water pump), but still, i replaced everything but the pump for good measure. Finally cracked the main seal and pulled off the front plate, and there it was. The promise land. I could see the oil pump chain pully and tensioner. Snapped the chain in place, replaced the tensioner and just like that was in the home stretch. Main seal was an absolute pain the the ass to remove and not as bad to replace. Using a rubber mallet and the old one, popped it right back down. Used some RVT and sealed up the front plate, put the new tensioner and pulley on for the timing belt and crossed my damn fingers I had a clue about what I was going to attempt next. Did my best to set the timing to TDC on the crank, cam, and flywheel (which took some real searching to find). Powering on from there the rest was a cake-walk in reassembly. Everything bolted up great. Then suddently, i was short 5 bolts. Since the Oil pump was gone, so was the hardware to secure it in. Tracked down the bolts at a dealership, and the missing ones at another and scooped them up friday morning. This was it, the final push to key turn on Saturday.

Assembly went great friday. Flushed the coolant system since someone just threw some green **** in there and there was no sign of G12. Snagged an oil filter and one jug of full synthetic for what I hoped would be a 500 mile run and replace. Took the battery to the shop to charge on saturday morning and they said it had two failed cells, and would be 200$ to replace. Took it to Les Schwab to see if they could warranty it (since it was a year old). Took 2 hours of negotiating, but left with a new battery and my warranty paperwork. Made it home, bolted it all up. Dropped the car off its stands and connected power back up. The door key pulled the windows all back down, and chimed on opening it. At this point my mind was racing about every single torqued bolt. Did it do it all to spec? Did i forget anything? Timing? Oh ****, timing?!? Did I screw that up? What if this...What if that...? Heart racing, i pulled the key in. Turn it to the on position. A million noises came from under the hood. Gave it 5 seconds and waited. I turned the key...

It cranked and died. I waited 3 seconds. Cranked. Nothing. Cranked again, Nothing. Cranked one more time. Nothing. 

I took the key out of the ignition. Stared at the cluster. Just waiting. Pulled the key back in again, turned it. It started. Ran rough for a second, idled in the low 2000's range. slowly backed it's self down to 1500...1300...1000...and came to rest at 700ish. I looked out the window at my girlfriend and asked "is this real life right now?".

It backed out of the garage without drama, we drove a few blocks and refilled fluids (even on a damaged control arm and damaged sub frame, it drove like it had no issues). Engine was quiet. Turbo spooled fine. Ran it through a car was for an underbody cleaning (since it was covered in oil, and the last thing i wanted was a fire). Made it back home ~7 mile trip total. Rechecked fluids and leaks again, nothing. All good. Let it sit 30 mins, and did the same, nothing. Started right back up, drove great (still babying it for the control arm and new parts to break in). 

The interior had some mold forming in it because of a clogged sunroof drain, and the great rainy winters out here in the northwest and the windows being stuck in the up position since it was flat dead. I'm cleaning all that today and letting it air out (since it has power and the windows can actually come down). I snapped one pic of it since returning home on its maiden adventure with me.

I can't thank you all for the help and confidence to power on with this. I wanted to give in so many times for lack of experience, being afraid of jacking things up (it's a valid fear), and lack of knowledge of how to do things. But i'm here now. I've still got a few things to handle with the remaining damage to the car from the rock, but as long as the engine runs, and runs strong, that should be a non issue now. Thank you all once again. Seriously, Tell me how to send you some cash over paypal, I'll buy you a case of beer. Not kidding. :laugh::beer: Cheers guys!










The 3415 Tool we made









Money shot.


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Grats man!

Just a few things, flush that green coolant out as soon as you can and get g12/g13 into there. 
Next time you run into that with the allan head bolts, Hit a 1/4 inch allan in its just bigger than the 6MM and works everytime for me. 

Enjoy!


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## fastinradford (Aug 3, 2010)

Imagine the gut wrench of being a mechanic every day.


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## Teerav (Oct 1, 2013)

AmIdYfReAk said:


> Grats man!
> 
> Just a few things, flush that green coolant out as soon as you can and get g12/g13 into there.
> Next time you run into that with the allan head bolts, Hit a 1/4 inch allan in its just bigger than the 6MM and works everytime for me.
> ...


Oh yeah, that stuff is long gone now. Clean on 50/50 G12 and distilled water (full distilled water flush prior to swapping to G12, green is gone). I went for the 1/4 and even a 7mm too, and both just couldn't get enough grip. Even snagged some 7mm stars too, and same thing. But yeah, it's gone now. Anything like that was just replaced so next time in 60k I won't have to deal with that again.


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## PoorMansDub (Nov 28, 2010)

Just now saw this post. That's awesome! Now you can tackle anything with the confidence gained in doing that job :thumbup:

PB Blaster is your friend for stuck bolts BEFORE they strip! You lucky SOB with that not so tight crank bolt. :laugh:


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## vriesmandabs (Dec 31, 2021)

So can you do the same in b6 2007 passat


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## androo.saybeau1991 (8 mo ago)

Teerav said:


> So reporting back on this cluster of a repair.
> 
> After finally committing to the repair and getting started, I scooped myself a new set of jackstands, new low profile jack, and some odds and ends 12 point impact sockets to complete the repair (cost about 100$ for those). Started pulling parts off the engine, got most of the top end dismantled, and started to work on the harmonic balancer. Instantly ran into issues. 2 of the 4 allen heads were stripped. I attempted to hammer a larger size allen in, and that failed. Attempted to JB weld an allen head to each bolt to socket them out once it had dried. Left it for ~24-30 hours, and gave them a crank. First one didn't hold and the allen popped out. The second did hold and came out, and even recovered the allen head later. So here I am stuck with one bolt in the harmonic balancer and unable to get any farther. I bought a set of the stripped screw removers that would support a bolt this large (6mm). Started to work on it, and just couldn't get a grip on it. Finally committed to drilling the damn thing out and just replacing the toothed Crank wheel for the timing belt. i'm about 75% of the way through the screw head and decided to give the remover one last shot. It hooked the head, and cranked it right out. Massive sigh of relief.
> 
> ...




My turn now friends.

I bought the car earlier this may and then after having it for about 2 weeks I got an oil light. I changed the pickup, the pump and the sensor. I changed the plastic baffle and broke the oil pump tensioner somehow while I torqued the sprocket bolt down. 

I searched for hours to try to find a way to do this job without taking off the timing cover. 

No luck.

So we tore into into this last weekend.
I made the mistake of not loosening the cam bolt prior to taking off the timing belt so I had to make a similar tool to the one pictured above today at work. To try to keep it in TDC.

It is wild that if you break that little 8$ part. You end up needing do many parts along the way. 

My parts list for this car so far bare in mind I started this month:
Have:
Oil system clean
Fuel system clean
Oil pump
Dipstick tube
Oil baffel 
oil filter
Oil pump tensioner 
Timing belt 
Timing tensioner 
Water pump
Oil pressure sensor 
Main bearings 
Air filter 
Cabin filter 
Air pump tube 
Motor mounts
New cam bolt


And I suppose I'll need a new front main seal. 
What a project 😭


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