# how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged?



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

i wanna take my aeb crank to get lightened/balanced/knife edged
how much would a machine shop charge for that?
how much would they charge to put the IM shaft on a lathe and lighten it too?

im just curious... i havent taken many things into the machine shop, i got some broken studs pulled a few times, and i had a 1/2" thick oil return flange custom made from BILLET aluminum after my chytie ebay piece of crap that was suposed to be billet turned out to be cast and shattered causeing my oil to all leak out almost destroying my engine. that was... $60 iirc, worth it though http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for peace of mind


_Modified by the4ork at 5:20 PM 12-1-2005_


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*

theres no need to have a crank lightened/knife edged for a FI aplication just get everything balanced http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (PITGUY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PITGUY* »_theres no need to have a crank lightened/knife edged for a FI aplication just get everything balanced http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

curious, why would you say that? lighter=better right?


----------



## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*

I disagree with pit guy. Knifedging is good because not only does it free up hp because it's lighter, knife-edging's big benefit is that it cuts through the oil in the pan better i.e. doesn't aerate the oil and doesn't rob as much hp.


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*

If you want to do it go ahead i am not here to stop you but i have seen several motor's with stock crank's rev to 10k with out any issues my advise is put your $$ into the head


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (PITGUY)*

i already put $1600 into the head, is that enough


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*

i'll just save for ball bearings and snake manifold then aye?








% of funds:
90% car
10% food
0% girls
until im finished...


----------



## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (PITGUY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PITGUY* »_advise is put your $$ into the head

You can also put some in my hand.


----------



## GoKart_16v (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (veedub11)*

Pitguy has a point...altho lightened and knife edge helps, the big diff would be in internal strength, boost pressure, and tuning. Spend the money on port and polish, nice turbo, and 3" exhaust.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (veedub11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedub11* »_You can also put some in my hand.

or mine for reading these threads....Spend the money on fitting on a I-5 20V water manifold on that 16V Head.


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

if you really want to liberate yourself of some greenbacks call up scat and get yourself a billet crank


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_or mine for reading these threads....Spend the money on fitting on a I-5 20V water manifold on that 16V Head.

wtf?


----------



## apexslider (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*

does lightening the crank have the same effect as lightening the flywheel? I've been told on force fed vr's this is a waste, but I still wonder where the big loss is? Is the cost that every one feels is a waste? Or does this rob torque that much?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_wtf?

Water manifold....if you have money to burn...


----------



## purple-pill (Feb 2, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*

i would say you will get over 1000 dollars in getting one done. you can buy one from eurospec for that. all ready done. alot of people say that when you knife edge a crank all balance holes that are drilled into the weights cause just as much windage going through the oil...personally i would spend that money on having someone tune your car for ya. everyone cheaps out here and blows there **** up cause they dont know what they are doing. then they lose all the fun in it. and sell all there stuff or quit. this is what i have gathered from reading these forums off and on. But. i would pass on the crank work put a 2.0 crank in instead


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (purple-pill)*


_Quote, originally posted by *purple-pill* »_i would say you will get over 1000 dollars in getting one done. you can buy one from eurospec for that. all ready done. alot of people say that when you knife edge a crank all balance holes that are drilled into the weights cause just as much windage going through the oil...personally i would spend that money on having someone tune your car for ya. everyone cheaps out here and blows there **** up cause they dont know what they are doing. then they lose all the fun in it. and sell all there stuff or quit. this is what i have gathered from reading these forums off and on. But. i would pass on the crank work put a 2.0 crank in instead

purple-helmet


----------



## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*

I'm not sure how much it'll cost ... but I wish people would pay attention ... 
*He's already spent 1600 on head work*
He's setting this up from the get go doing things right ... do you REALLY think he'll cheapen-out on the tuning? Especially after spending that much on the head ... 
As far as lightening and knife-edging ... I'd say if you're going to be doing it all up to the nine... then do it all... to ensure strength get em cryo'd to make sure you've got the strength ... When the free reving and non-oiling pounding crank ... flying up to 10k on that gt35r will be MUCH MUCH fun!


----------



## thetwodubheads (Dec 6, 2004)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (ExtremeVR6)*

Machine shops are really cheap as long as you tell them exactly what you want, do it if you've got the green.... however if you get a windage tray that eleiminates the need for knife edging the crank, because you already don't have the oil to drag the crank through. The lightening on the other hand is good as long as you keep it enough to balance the pistons.


----------



## _Scirocco20v (Sep 10, 2005)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (ExtremeVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ExtremeVR6* »_I'm not sure how much it'll cost ... but I wish people would pay attention ... 
*He's already spent 1600 on head work*
He's setting this up from the get go doing things right ... do you REALLY think he'll cheapen-out on the tuning? Especially after spending that much on the head ... 
As far as lightening and knife-edging ... I'd say if you're going to be doing it all up to the nine... then do it all... to ensure strength get em cryo'd to make sure you've got the strength ... When the free reving and non-oiling pounding crank ... flying up to 10k on that gt35r will be MUCH MUCH fun! 


He skimped on tuning the first time. After he dumped money into his first engine.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (thetwodubheads)*

whats the difference between a windage tray and a crank scraper?


----------



## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*

I think they're essentially the same thing


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (mechsoldier)*

except for the fact they look completely different. but which one is better?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*

Then you might as well git rid of the I shaft completely and dry sump the motor.Lighten the crank and have a good time.
You should really run a reverse flow cooling system with an electric pump with that little thinggy your using on the head.That would also be worth the money IMO.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (slappynuts)*

show me some off the shelf easily accessable parts that have a good cost/benifit ratio








btw hey wizard, whts up with the water manifold? what is the benifit? i thought i saw a post about that to where all you would have to do is drill out where the jackets are since they were casted over for the 16v head, and then mod the 20v manifold (lop off 5th runner)


----------



## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_i wanna take my aeb crank to get lightened/balanced/knife edged
how much would a machine shop charge for that?
how much would they charge to put the IM shaft on a lathe and lighten it too?

im just curious... i havent taken many things into the machine shop, i got some broken studs pulled a few times, and i had a 1/2" thick oil return flange custom made from BILLET aluminum after my chytie ebay piece of crap that was suposed to be billet turned out to be cast and shattered causeing my oil to all leak out almost destroying my engine. that was... $60 iirc, worth it though http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for peace of mind

_Modified by the4ork at 5:20 PM 12-1-2005_

Lightening the crank is an extremely bad idea. While lighter weight does, given no collateral problems, equal more horsepower, the % increase on an FI engine is tiny. What it will do is make the engine run less smoothly but throwing off the harmonics- bearing wear will increase, and it could well cost horsepower through increased internal friction


----------



## GoKart_16v (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_show me some off the shelf easily accessable parts that have a good cost/benifit ratio










$20 boost controller...


----------



## kobe82 (Dec 27, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (GoKart_16v)*

boy o boy 
build it dependable its not going to be a lambo its a daily driver right ? or is it if it isnt do what you will it will only be for a hour or 2 a week but if you want to enjoy it dAILY check and double check all your work, dont guess on any thing, and know dam good what other people are doing for you .
Be there advacate not yours 
(basiclly slow down and do more research with a goal in mind not just THE FASTEST CAR its not a movie its a real car ) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (kobe82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kobe82* »_boy o boy 
build it dependable its not going to be a lambo its a daily driver right ? or is it if it isnt do what you will it will only be for a hour or 2 a week but if you want to enjoy it dAILY check and double check all your work, dont guess on any thing, and know dam good what other people are doing for you .
Be there advacate not yours 
(basiclly slow down and do more research with a goal in mind not just THE FASTEST CAR its not a movie its a real car ) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

its a track only car








my daily is a diesel


----------



## BoostCrazy8v (Feb 7, 2004)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*

I want to balance, knife, and cryo my ABA crank for my 1.8t stroker GT3040R. Should I knife it or leave it be? 
BTW...How much hp/trq will balanced and cryo crank handle?


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (bobqzzi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobqzzi* »_
Lightening the crank is an extremely bad idea. While lighter weight does, given no collateral problems, equal more horsepower, the % increase on an FI engine is tiny. What it will do is make the engine run less smoothly but throwing off the harmonics- bearing wear will increase, and it could well cost horsepower through increased internal friction


----------



## BoostCrazy8v (Feb 7, 2004)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (PITGUY)*

Thank you, I read that post a couple of hours ago. But there are always two sides, some might suggest it, some might not. Looking for opinions in both directions. Now that a "shouldn't" has been posted, is there anyone out there who thinks it might be benificial and able to support thier opinion?
I feel uncomfortable taking material away from an already strong crank. The come factory forged if I am not mistaken. I just want the best for our engines. Obtaining supporting facts is key to knowledge and performance.
How much hp/trq will a factory forged ABA crank handle? How much estimated hp/trq with cryo treatment? Thanks again


----------



## GoKart_16v (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (BoostCrazy8v)*

The question is...how much power will knife-edging and balancing the crank give you? Prolly not much...it really lessen the parasitic loss, more than "produce" power.
Will you be able to get 400hp w/out knife-edging a crank? Yes
How? Turn up the boost, big turbo, big injectors, big exhaust, and tune it well.
So why would you need to do it (knife-edging)? Prolly jsut for the sake of doing everything you can possibly do to an engine.


----------



## BoostCrazy8v (Feb 7, 2004)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (GoKart_16v)*

I am going to run around 550-600 HP at the crank, 480-550 all wheel drive HP, daily driver. So with that being said, I want to do as much as I can to make my motor better. I am not going knife my ABA crank. I am using a lightened flywheel, I don't want to go over board with the removing of original part material.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (BoostCrazy8v)*

would there be a signifigant amount of wieght between the cast and forged cranks?
i took mine out a few weeks ago and it is HEAVY... i was like wow!


----------



## BoostCrazy8v (Feb 7, 2004)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*

I am very sure that the ABA 2.0L factory crank is drop forged from the factory. Others, i don't know. I would not think there would be a noticeable difference.


----------



## ArcticFox (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (the4ork)*

Forget crankshafts. Get some cowbell.


----------



## subrosasix (Jul 30, 2005)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (ArcticFox)*

where do you get your crank lightened/knife edged? iam a all motor head.


----------



## BoostCrazy8v (Feb 7, 2004)

*Re: how much to have a crank lightened/knife edged? (subrosasix)*

A REPUTABLE machine shop.


----------



## GetDaMemo (Oct 15, 2003)

From the lists I have seen, all cranks are forged.


----------



## MrsBugracer (May 15, 2005)

*Re: (GetDaMemo)*

After reading this I'm suprised at how little you guys know on this topic . 
If you want reliable hp , knife edge the crank , nitride it , run heavy flywheel and front pulley . If you seeking outright HP for the drags , buy a stroker FORGED crank ( cast ones break real easy) thats been forged as one piece and get everything balanced and all clearances double and triple checked . Thats all bearings shafts oil pump gears etc etc . Also aftermarket cranks are usually nitrided . Get the rods shot peened and balanced , if you arent getting aftermarket units . Double check bearing clearances to the crank , also check clearances to the gudgeon pin . The bottom needs to be as close to 100% as possible . I dont know much about watercooled engine machine shops but RIMCO is a really good air cooled machine shop . You should find a good machine shop in your area that is reputable . Once you have a strong bottom end you can really boost it . Oh , and be careful with cranks cause there are a few that are forged in China


----------



## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (MrsBugracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MrsBugracer* »_After reading this I'm suprised at how little you guys know on this topic . 
If you want reliable hp , knife edge the crank , nitride it , run heavy flywheel and front pulley . If you seeking outright HP for the drags , buy a stroker FORGED crank ( cast ones break real easy) thats been forged as one piece and get everything balanced and all clearances double and triple checked . Thats all bearings shafts oil pump gears etc etc . Also aftermarket cranks are usually nitrided . Get the rods shot peened and balanced , if you arent getting aftermarket units . Double check bearing clearances to the crank , also check clearances to the gudgeon pin . The bottom needs to be as close to 100% as possible . I dont know much about watercooled engine machine shops but RIMCO is a really good air cooled machine shop . You should find a good machine shop in your area that is reputable . Once you have a strong bottom end you can really boost it . Oh , and be careful with cranks cause there are a few that are forged in China









No need to replace the crank in a watercooled with an aftermarket one. The forged VW cranks are of the highest qualkity.


----------

