# Largest Tire put on stock 18x8 rim?



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

The 2019 Beetle SE (FE) comes through with 235/45R18 Hankook Kinergy GT tires.
Has anyone gone higher?

245/45R18?

or another size?

TIA.


----------



## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

I frequently use the "Specs" link for a given tire size on TireRack.com to see what size wheels will fit a given tire size.

For example, a 245/45/18 is listed as fitting wheels 7.5" to 9.0" with the measured rim width at 8". Section width is 9.6" and Tread width is 8.6".

Example:


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> _I frequently use the "Specs" link for a given tire size on TireRack.com to see what size wheels will fit a given tire size.
> 
> For example, a 245/45/18 is listed as fitting wheels 7.5" to 9.0" with the measured rim width at 8". Section width is 9.6" and Tread width is 8.6"._
> 
> Example:


I wasn't clear. Apologies.

I have often stuffed larger tires into a smaller rim.

My question was more toward this: given the stock SE rim, how wide a front tire can one consider before clearance and rubbing issues on the body and frame become relevant? 245 seems safe. 255? 265?


----------



## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

This is our previous Beetle with 18x8 42 offset and 245/40/18 with OEM suspension. An extra 1/2" of sidewall running a 245/45/18 would probably be okay, but I can't say for sure.


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> This is our previous Beetle with 18x8 42 offset and 245/40/18 with OEM suspension. An extra 1/2" of sidewall running a 245/45/18 would probably be okay, but I can't say for sure.


Wow.
You are a great resource.
Thank you.

Has the wheel well been redesigned? That 245/40 combo looks kinda tight. I have 235/45s on mine now, and there is lots more room (it seems), and I'm only going to be adding 4.5mm of added height ( 1/5th of an inch ).

Anyway, I'm committed: launch codes have been entered, and the missiles are in the air.

I'm going with 245/45R18s in the front, and 275/40R18s in the back (a poor man's AWD hack).
The 245s are going to be *Yokohama Advan Sport A/S*. I found multiple solid reviews, and the *AS[SUP]2[/SUP]*(s) are supposedly comparable to the holy PilotSports. Great traction, with sidewall technology for quieting. In theory, these should feel like glue compared to the Kinergy GTs. Also, they were on sale (literally) at TireRack for $125, free shipping, free roadhazard, free date with Erin Heatherton. Couldn't resist the sale and the reviews. I thought about a summer tire, but today - ha! - I was eating an early dinner, having driven to Chipotle in my Beetle, and I look outside and there is a beautiful blizzard of large snowflakes blowing in the wind. And my Jeep is in the garage. So things happen. and it seemed like a small confirmation of my choice. I'm confident I have much better traction profile on my Beetle to work with my eventual engine tune. (And ... final bonus: _I have someone lined up to buy at least one pair of my Kinergys!_)

Your thoughts?

And thanks again for the photo.


----------



## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

Glad to help up to the point that I have experience with! Beyond that, I think you could also venture into the more active MK6 GTI forums and get some more feedback and read up more on tire/suspension questions, as most of that platform is very similar in terms of suspension and so forth. I'd venture that most every combination of size and whatnot has been tried and researched there. Also, check through Dr Techy's thread here, as he's taken his Beetle through many stages of modifications.

Overall, I think an A/S tire is certainly a reasonable choice for your situation, especially given the "sign from above" with the snow!  The date with Erin would've made me buy anything they were offering though...  

I do have some concerns with your staggered tire size choices for front and rear that you should perhaps consider (or be aware of the pros and cons) before fully committing:

-Clearance in the rear. 275 is VERY wide. Depending on the offset of your wheels, you may be rubbing suspension components. Also, a 275/40/18 is designed for a 9-11" wheel based on tire manufacturer specifications, not an 8" wheel that you are using. I don't see that tire size listed for the Yoko Advan A/S though, so maybe I'm missing something.
-Handling balance. Putting on a dramatically wider rear tire will increase grip in the rear. Which will make an already understeering Beetle prone to even MORE understeer when at the limits of adhesion.
-Weight. Those larger tires will have a few more pounds of unsprung weight, which will negatively impact acceleration, braking, and suspension movement.


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> Glad to help up to the point that I have experience with! Beyond that, I think you could also venture into the more active MK6 GTI forums and get some more feedback and read up more on tire/suspension questions, as most of that platform is very similar in terms of suspension and so forth. I'd venture that most every combination of size and whatnot has been tried and researched there. Also, check through Dr Techy's thread here, as he's taken his Beetle through many stages of modifications.
> 
> Overall, I think an A/S tire is certainly a reasonable choice for your situation, especially given the "sign from above" with the snow!  The date with Erin would've made me buy anything they were offering though...
> 
> ...


Thanks.

I guess the lesson here is that I should keep my mouth shut until I have a successful configuration. I now have anxiety this will not work and I will be eating my tire purchase. As I said, _the missiles are in the air_ -- the tires are on their way.

I've asked a fellow rodder to look at the back wheel area. We both agree that the 275 is still only 20mm more on the inside (less than 1 inch) and only 4.5mm higher into the well. He seemed to think it would be no problem.

As for the handling, as you know, the failure of FWD is that the rear breaks free and there is no effective way to bring it back in line. Compared to my AWD Juke, I've already felt this, and is the behavior I'm trying to mitigate. I have not yet felt any understeer problem, so I'm concluding that my driving style tends to make the rear break free. (But, just in case, an awesome, Erin Heatherton sponsored slightly wider tire on the front).

I'm wondering if I should just return the tires before even mounting them.
I don't know why I keep getting myself into this. An addiction, I guess.

Thanks for responding.


----------



## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

The excitement of modding sometimes causes us to act a bit impulsively. That's what's nice about the forums, where you have the opportunity to talk about it with like minded enthusiasts who can share their experiences and knowledge. But no worries if you already "went and done did it"! We've all done it! 

With a FWD car, anytime I've gotten a little lift throttle oversteer, all that's been required is a gentle press on the gas pedal to change the weight transfer and a mild steering correction. It's easy to practice in low grip scenarios at low speeds (like a wet or snowy parking lot) until you get comfortable with how the car handles. Or with the modern stability control that can't be defeated, it'll brake the appropriate wheel enough to bring the car back into line, although more abruptly than a smooth correction by a driver that is prepared for what the car is doing. 

And just because you might be doing something that isn't common, doesn't mean it won't work. That's how progress is made sometimes! Good luck and keep us updated!


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> The excitement of modding sometimes causes us to act a bit impulsively. That's what's nice about the forums, where you have the opportunity to talk about it with like minded enthusiasts who can share their experiences and knowledge. But no worries if you already "went and done did it"! We've all done it!
> 
> With a FWD car, anytime I've gotten a little lift throttle oversteer, all that's been required is a gentle press on the gas pedal to change the weight transfer and a mild steering correction. It's easy to practice in low grip scenarios at low speeds (like a wet or snowy parking lot) until you get comfortable with how the car handles. Or with the modern stability control that can't be defeated, it'll brake the appropriate wheel enough to bring the car back into line, although more abruptly than a smooth correction by a driver that is prepared for what the car is doing.
> 
> And just because you might be doing something that isn't common, doesn't mean it won't work. That's how progress is made sometimes! Good luck and keep us updated!


Thanks for the encouragement.
Thinking it all through, my major concern now is if my rear wheels will have enough clearance under the fender if I go over a huge bump. They no longer will fit totally inside the wheel well -- which the current tires don't either, but the sidewall has easily 2" of clearance before the fender would be touched in a glancing fashion.

*Status:* My first set of tires came in yesterday ... and my 2nd set, which were supposed to come in Monday - *came in today!* So maybe tomorrow ... hee hee ... 

(_if success, then pictures, and international envy ... _)

Thanks again.


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Appointment Sunday to try to implement tire plan.

Given all the talk about widths and heights, I thought I'd add a simple reference for perspective on just how small the difference is between a 235 and a 245 tire ... and even the differences out to my 275/40R18. I thought I would, but then -- much like the frustration of not being able to enlarge this font -- (my status on?)this site does not allow members to upload photos from their home machines.

Daft.
*Verzögert!*


----------



## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

Looking forward to seeing it! For sharing photos, I just post one to Facebook, and then insert the link here for anything I want to share. More so than the tires, I think many would also be happy with pictures of Erin posing with a VW, just so that it's relevant and not detracting from this thread, of course... 

Just last weekend I finally put SMALLER tires on my wife's Beetle for the winter. The 15" with huge sidewalls looks comical in a retro way. I'm tempted to replace the Kinergys with whitewalls to take the retro look a step further on the regular wheels... But I digress.


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

*Tires Update:*


*Success!* 

Staggered with Yokohama Advan Sport A/S on the front, Achilles ATR Sport on the back.
_Fr:_ 245/45R18
_Rr:_ 275/40R18​
Looks great, no fitment/backspace issues, runs great. The upsided tires do not overwhelm the wheel wells (front _or_ back). For fun -- google "_PA Route 422 and 1st Avenue_". It's a southbound highway exit with a very tight circle return to the access road. Can definitely feel a much tighter back end on turns. On some new black top on 422, did some hard insane lane changes at 75 mph and the back end just snapped into place. Funny how theory actually works out.

And, of course, the Yokohama's provide much more glue than the Hankook Kynergys. Feels noticably more solid on the road.

Thanks *Dan00* for your input and support.
​.
..









..

( _Must say, last night I was beside myself with worry. But it is exactly what I was going for. And, added bonus, where I had the tires mounted on the rims and put on the car, the manager there had the same Achilles tires on his Mustang. Good all the way around. _)​


----------



## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

Picture doesn't show, but glad it worked out the way you had hoped!


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> Picture doesn't show, but glad it worked out the way you had hoped!


Hey ...

Was on here for 2 days ... wonder what Vortex did ...
(perhaps it is because my settings say I can "not post attachments" ?)
(( tried to activate a photo again and this time it does not even show in the _preview_ -- having been a SysAdmin in the past, this is always so amusing ))

(It remains so stupid that "members" can't upload photos from their own machines.)










The good news is that the ride remains fine.
Also, sold my rear Kinergy(s) (2) so the total cost of upgrading the rear axle grip was under *$70* !


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

*Tires Update II*:


Got up early today and went out for Eggs Benedict. There's a small little semi-diner that calls itself a _Cafe'_ near me that serves it. Easily in the top 3 I've ever eaten, so that's a blessing: 5 minutes from my house.

After having my Beetle in storage for 2 weeks (I have more than 1 car), I got it out and drove. After breakfast, I went to a local park and walked around for some old person exercise. I walked up behind my Beetle and smiled. The *275s* just look _so_ great! One odd side effect is that my Beetle now often plays a song all by itself as I wind down the road: _Misty Mountain Hop_. I like Zep, but am a McCartney guy through and through. But _Hop_ fits -- I see why my Beetle insists on playing it. So wide, so nice.

So the tires are beyond a success, better than I hoped. Twice I've taken the spot I referred to in another post (about the stock Kynergy's) where I turn right at a Stop and go up a slight grade and with any foot on the gas the car breaks away. In these tires, has not happened, even when I have tried to push it. And that AWD sensation continues to be active. I felt it twice this morning: I make a turn, the front end responds, and then the back just _*snap!*_ (s) right into line. I have this other turn that I make at probably too high a speed: off a road, up a connector, then onto a (flat) bridge. My Beetle definitely likes to hop a little in the air as he comes off the rising connector and lands on the flat bridge at the speed I often take it. But again, when it lands on that mombo rear tire, the car just kicks right back into lane, total control re-established. The car is so much more solid through turns than it was, and I would say it is in no way inferior to my old Juke! AWD in terms of flipping the car around lanes or turns.

{
_And, lest you ask, I have had ZERO issues with spacing/rubbing/clearance of the new tires in the wheel wells. And, the 275s just tuck under the fender, so it doesn't look all _low-rider_ in appearance. You must stop and look at the car before you notice the staggered setup.

§

And ... those incredibly value priced Achilles tires from Amazon did not get a flat spot or go bumpy after 2 weeks in (cold) storage. Tires are amazing, and doubly so for the price.
_​}

*Mission Success!*
​


----------



## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

Thanks for the follow up and some fun personal story-telling to go along with it. :thumbup: Much better than the typically boring, "yeah, it's better..." that many people do with reviews.  A fun early drive without traffic followed by a hearty breakfast is always a great weekend activity! Thrilled that it came together so well for ya'!


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> Thanks for the follow up and some fun personal story-telling to go along with it. :thumbup: Much better than the typically boring, "yeah, it's better..." that many people do with reviews.  A fun early drive without traffic followed by a hearty breakfast is always a great weekend activity! Thrilled that it came together so well for ya'!


Thanks ... best wishes.


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

*Update:
*


Six weeks in, about 1,500 miles and ... zero regrets, and the handling still gives me a smile.

Just ran a good 50/50 mix of highway and city/StopSigns/Lights driving. The car is reporting fuel consumption at *30.4* mpgs for this tank. Prior to another fillup two weeks ago the report was *31.2* . The car often reported 30.8 to 31.6 prior to the upgrade (though, with under 700 miles, admittedly the factory configuration did not have a long track record).

So the retro staggered, improved handling mod has not damaged my fuel efficiency.

Lastly, my Beetle still does race up to 80 mph uncontrollably whenever I play _Misty Mountain Hop._ But that's a deficiency I can live with.​​


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

A victoriously wider Beetle ...
​








​


----------



## lacr2000 (May 13, 2009)

NewBeatle said:


> A victoriously wider Beetle ...
> ​
> 
> 
> ...


Nice ride!
Do you use wheel spacers? If so, what size?
Also, would you have a pic from the rear looking forward? Just to better visualize the size difference between front and rear.


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

lacr2000 said:


> Nice ride!
> Do you use wheel spacers? If so, what size?
> Also, would you have a pic from the rear looking forward? Just to better visualize the size difference between front and rear.



Ah ha! I *do* have a picture from the rear forward! This picture was just the appetizer.
And, no, that's the beauty of this application: no spacers nor anything else required. Lose your old worthless stock tires, go with these (I tell you, those Achilles tires off Amazon are amazing), and you will have a _brand new *Beetle!*_ { _And one that can stay grounded on the road even with a 585 wtq Phase 7 *APR* tune. _ }

2nd picture: _coming soon to a theatre near you ..._
​


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

lacr2000 said:


> { _deleted stuff ..._ }
> 
> 
> Also, would you have a pic from the rear looking forward? Just to better visualize the size difference between front and rear.



As requested ...
​
.










​

Please footnote "_The Robin Configuration_ *[SUP]®[/SUP]*" in your photos.​


----------



## lacr2000 (May 13, 2009)

Very nice!
Thanks for posting the pic.


----------



## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

That looks solid! Those wide rears might cause a curious passerby to wonder if it was a rear wheel drive conversion.


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Perhaps this is becoming a ...
_*Generic Beetle Tires Thread*_​
So I took my baby for a spin today. It had rained all day and the roads were of course wet. I wanted to test my new tires' grip. All went well.









​
Curiously, I looked in the side view mirror, and then multiple times, because when I looked I saw something peculiar. Both my tires (of course) made tracks in the wet road. But the tracks themselves were interesting. They were both like pulley wheels driving down the road: the outside edges were prominent and the (inside) center was ... less so. It almost looked like the center was not disturbing the road. And I know the rap is that "over" inflating tires causes the tires to bulge, you ride more on the center, these pretzels are making me thirsty, and the center of the tires wear out faster. So, wouldn't the tire prints above indicate the the tires can still take more air, because they are not (overly) riding on the center of the tires now?

_I like the ride at the current pressure. I'm not thinking of inflating more. But isn't this an indication of "something"? Has anyone else tracked/noticed their tires' tracks on the road?
_​

Hoping you don't find tire comments tiring ...​


----------



## ThatBlueBeetle (May 13, 2018)

NewBeatle said:


> Perhaps this is becoming a ...
> _*Generic Beetle Tires Thread*_​​So I took my baby for a spin today. It had rained all day and the roads were of course wet. I wanted to test my new tires' grip. All went well.​​
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, no expert here, but I have a hypothesis...

I'm assuming the tread pattern on your tires will do what it can to direct water away from the wheels so it can get traction in wet weather and avoid hydroplaning. As such, I am assuming that the tread design will take water from the *center* area of the tires and push them outwards towards the *outer edge*. As a result, the water that the outer edges of your tires is pushing out of the way is a larger volume than what the middle of your tires moves, making it look more "prominent." 

I could very easily be wrong here, so _please do not take this to be gospel._ As you mentioned, it could also easily be that your tires are underinflated, in which case, you should be able to see that by how the tires wear (but that could be costly in the long run). 

Hoping others chime in here, cause I am curious to know what the story is behind this...

Also, tire comments are never tiring... nicely done there.


----------



## holson (Mar 13, 2007)

Looks great and thanks for the share/writeups - loving the look of the HID lights too, can’t wait to get those on our Beetle


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

ThatBlueBeetle said:


> Ok, no expert here, but I have a hypothesis...
> 
> I'm assuming the tread pattern on your tires will do what it can to direct water away from the wheels so it can get traction in wet weather and avoid hydroplaning. As such, I am assuming that the tread design will take water from the *center* area of the tires and push them outwards towards the *outer edge*. As a result, the water that the outer edges of your tires is pushing out of the way is a larger volume than what the middle of your tires moves, making it look more "prominent."
> 
> ...


_ 
But... if the water is pulled from the center, wouldn't there be a greater net disturbance on the road in the center of the tire? And greater water net on the outside would lead to... 
_​
The color and texture in the center were identical to the other untouched (undriven) parts of the road. 

Thanks for your theory. 
You may be right, I don't know.


----------



## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

I think it'd be really tough to discern your ideal contact patch based on water displacement when viewed through the side or rear view mirror while travelling down the road. Contact patches are best examined by a shop with access to the right equipment, but drag racers also used to just do a burnout and then go back and examine the marks they made on the road. Darker in the middle meant too high pressure. Darker on the sides meant the pressure was too low. And even coloring across the burnout mark meant just right. Kinda tough to do burnouts in our Bugs, though! 

When I autocrossed, I'd put some chalk on the edge of the tread to see how much the sidewall was rolling over during hard cornering. And then also tweak the pressures based on how I wanted the car to feel when going through hard cornering maneuvers. Checking the tread depth every few thousand miles will also allow you to see if they are wearing evenly.

With the size of your new tires and wheels being different than the stock setups, it may require more or less pressure in order to match that which VW intended. Personally, I like to run a little more PSI than OEM due to my preference for a bit crisper handling response and slightly better fuel economy.

Toyo has a load chart where you can look up an assortment of tire sizes and the accompanying load limit at varying pressures. Match up your OEM and new tire size and pressures on that, and it should serve as a good starting point. Then tweak from there based on your personal preferences.


https://www.toyotires.com/media/3729/application_of_load_inflation_tables_20200723.pdf


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> I think it'd be really tough to discern your ideal contact patch based on water displacement when viewed through the side or rear view mirror while travelling down the road.
> 
> _ {... deleted stuff ...} _


As Dirty Harry once said ...

" *I'm afraid you've misjudged me.* "








​
I'm not writing a book, nor proposing a new method of tire review. I'm reporting actual data; which, on that road, on that day, was strikingly vivid.

Thanks for your response and info.
.


----------



## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

NewBeatle said:


> _...deleted unintentional(?) passive aggressive image..._
> I'm not writing a book, nor proposing a new method of tire review. I'm reporting actual data; which, on that road, on that day, was strikingly vivid.


Easy there, Harry Callahan. I apologize if I offended you somehow. But where is the "actual data" that you reported? What I read was that you _observed_ your wet tire track patterns through your rear view mirror. I'm not disputing what you saw. I am merely saying that your observation isn't likely to provide a reasonable determination for answering your own questions about possibly needing to increase tire pressure based on those ever changing wet tire tracks.

Much like footprints in the beach getting washed away by the waves as you walk along a sandy shoreline, your tire tracks through water will continue to change as every millisecond passes. They'll look different 1/10th of a second later than they did after only 1/100th of a second.


----------

