# 225 APR and I still got smoked by my friends stock S2K. Help!!!



## germanengineering g60 (Aug 20, 2007)

So my friends have n evo, one has masda speed 3 and one has an S2K. I decided to get a ALMS TT. so I bought a stage I APR ecu, 93, 100 octane, a Bailey DV, turbo inlet pipe, ModshackTTuned Induction System
Stage 2
The MOFO
4.o bar
and a neuspeed intake.

here is the problem. the S2K still took advantage of me by one car length at a rolling start 20 and 40mph and he is bone stock.
So what could be the problem? and what can I do to start passing some cars? are TT's that slow?


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## PLAYED TT (Oct 17, 2010)

You need to learn how to drive:laugh:


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## chads (May 27, 2010)

They look pretty and are built well, but they don't have enough speed for me. I love V8 rear wheel drive. I think the TT would have been great if it had 300 to 350 hp and were rear wheel drive from the factory. Would have made it much more enjoyable to drive and the power would have matched the looks/price tag. 

Please disregard my earlier post, I wasn't in a good mood.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

Slow without downpipe and an aggressive tune. APR tunes are very mild. 

w/
Eurodyne Stage I
42 DD Intake
42 DD Downpipe
Borla Cat Back
TIP

Keeping up with a stock well worked B6/7 S4 is not an issue or dusting E46 M3's. S2000's with/o boost are not that fast. With boost....forget about it.


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## night_OWL (Nov 15, 2011)

What RPM / gear were you in when you started your roll, if you don't mind me asking?


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## TTC2k5 (May 23, 2008)

If drivers have equal skill, it could be a power to weight ratio issue.

if he's at 240 and 2800lbs and you're at 265 and 3100lbs, you'd be just about even at 11.67 lbs/hp. So you should keep even with him. But...there's really no telling what your real APR hp is without a good dyno, but it should be close to 265 (on paper, less 20-25% to the wheel). If you're not getting the full advertised hp from APR, then he's got the advantage.

weights above are from on-line sources and you will find they range all over the place, but one thing is true...the s2000 is significantly lighter than the TT, regardless of the source. 

Our TT's pretty, but she's chubby too.


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## taifighter (Dec 21, 2007)

germanengineering g60 said:


> at a rolling start 20 and 40mph


This ^ is the problem. 


The TT is losing its competitive advantage by not running fom a dig.
It's a different race with a launch from a good driver vs. a rolling start.


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## germanengineering g60 (Aug 20, 2007)

night_OWL said:


> What RPM / gear were you in when you started your roll, if you don't mind me asking?


40mph i think might have been second gear but 20mph of course first gear.


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## germanengineering g60 (Aug 20, 2007)

PLAYED TT said:


> You need to learn how to drive:laugh:




lolol no thats not the problem in this case for sure. and I did smoke the dust out of him from the start but thats another thing.


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## germanengineering g60 (Aug 20, 2007)

taifighter said:


> This ^ is the problem.
> 
> 
> The TT is losing its competitive advantage by not running fom a dig.
> It's a different race with a launch from a good driver vs. a rolling start.



Whats a good rolling start gear and speed for the TT? cuz we always did it from 40mph with most everyone we raced.


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## germanengineering g60 (Aug 20, 2007)

germanengineering g60 said:


> Whats a good rolling start gear and speed for the TT? cuz we always did it from 40mph with most everyone we raced.




well, rolling starts are safer for high torque cars. due to burning up clutches and if we want to get more pulls in on the one stock clutch than I like the rolling start idea. But I see what your sayin, AWD is a huge advantage.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

germanengineering g60 said:


> Whats a good rolling start gear and speed for the TT? cuz we always did it from 40mph with most everyone we raced.


Depends on the mods. Most of the time you want to be right around 3-3500k. TT's fall flat on their face without a down pipe & test pipe @ ~5200-5500. With them it will start running out of steam around 7k.


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## bklnstunt718 (May 30, 2007)

my best friend has an s2000! I LOVE IT! so much more fun to drive than the tt!!! handles amazing! 

but....

everytime we've raced, ive beat him! by a lot! raced him from a 50mph - 135mph, i had him by almost 3 cars.. 

i have 
Manifold spacer
Turbo inlet pipe
3inch down-no cat-stock exhaust
revo stage 2 tune 

from a dig.. i rape him! by the time his rpms clime im already gone.. might just be bad driving though...


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## Nihuel (Mar 31, 2010)

Had a similar issue and posted about it a few weeks ago. I think I found my problem, and it might be worth a shot to check yours out. Plug into VAGCOM and see what your 02 sensor and MAF are doing. Especially with the MOFO, you want them to be working and working well. Otherwise the ECU will hold you back. No CEL? 

I had my 4bar in a few months before the MOFO and I think running rich might have killed the o2 sensor. It wasnt adjusting at all, just read 0. The MAF was saying dumb sh*t too but after I replaced the O2, MAF read fine. What kind of boost are you at? 

AND one more thing, 2nd gear goes to 55, so you gotta shift right away, he doesnt. Same thing with first gear, its really short. So either race from a dig OR race in 4th and up (70 or 80mph). I hold 22lbs in the higher gears and thats where my car shines.


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## germanengineering g60 (Aug 20, 2007)

Awesome, ill take all your advices and post a vid.of me smoking the s2k. Give me a couple of weeks. And I think I can take my other friend on his 350 Z because the s2k smoked him too.


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## germanengineering g60 (Aug 20, 2007)

Nihuel said:


> Had a similar issue and posted about it a few weeks ago. I think I found my problem, and it might be worth a shot to check yours out. Plug into VAGCOM and see what your 02 sensor and MAF are doing. Especially with the MOFO, you want them to be working and working well. Otherwise the ECU will hold you back. No CEL?
> 
> I had my 4bar in a few months before the MOFO and I think running rich might have killed the o2 sensor. It wasnt adjusting at all, just read 0. The MAF was saying dumb sh*t too but after I replaced the O2, MAF read fine. What kind of boost are you at?
> 
> AND one more thing, 2nd gear goes to 55, so you gotta shift right away, he doesnt. Same thing with first gear, its really short. So either race from a dig OR race in 4th and up (70 or 80mph). I hold 22lbs in the higher gears and thats where my car shines.



Dont have a boost gauge yet, I know, I know but its my second week owning the ALMS. My track car the corrado does have one but thats anothet story


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## Waxfondler (Nov 10, 2011)

i had an s2k before my mk1q. 

the s2k is a BEAST rolling and with the rpms up.

but to be honest, the mk1q launches better... the s2k is SOOOO sluggish until it reaches vtec.

i HATED driving my ap1 s2k light to light... on the highway, it was perfect.

IMO, s2k is overhyped.


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## RACEMAN2011 (Oct 11, 2011)

I think in order to put all your friends cars to bed you might want to build up an ultra light weight Porsche 911 with an engine swap, either an STi motor or SBC V8...l just happen to have one for sale


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## germanengineering g60 (Aug 20, 2007)

RACEMAN2011 said:


> I think in order to put all your friends cars to bed you might want to build up an ultra light weight Porsche 911 with an engine swap, either an STi motor or SBC V8...l just happen to have one for sale


haha, Im the same person who is emailing you. Im the one with the ALMS. Im still thinking about it. see you back at the email...


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## Mantvis (Jan 1, 2010)

How would 180 fwd with unitronics stage 2, cold air intakr, custom dp, and magnaflow exhaust would perform against s2k and 350z?


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## PLAYED TT (Oct 17, 2010)

As good as a gti would :screwy:


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## Mantvis (Jan 1, 2010)

Well how would gti do then?


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## TTC2k5 (May 23, 2008)

Mantvis said:


> How would 180 fwd with unitronics stage 2, cold air intakr, custom dp, and magnaflow exhaust would perform against s2k and 350z?


given the 180fwd is closer in weight to the s2k, on paper you'd need to get the power to near 250 or so to be competitive. probably even more as the s2k is manual and the 180fwd is auto and auto's gearing would also put you at a disadvantage. 

prolly safer to race corolas and tCs.


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## Arnolds64 (Nov 13, 2009)

*S2k vs TT*

I have only raced a WRX a new GTI and he walked me but said he had it modded to almost STI power . The TT is not that fast. Things hampering them- AWD more parasitic drag and weight. German cars are heavier all the way around but makes for a solid car. I hate the throttle by wire and the damping affect of the Dual Mass Flywheel we have. I think they really have a tendency to give us to much hesitation between gears and the spooling time of the turbo also therefore gives the N/A competition and advantage in a drag race. I think when I go for a new Clutch a Single mass mey go in. Turbos however rule on the highway and where I ran the new GTI. Blew him away and before the APR tune!

I had an MX6 V6 LS 5 spd. Love that car! Fast! I did a JDM Japanese Spec engine swap, added headers, corrected chip, not cats, free flow catback, ported the manifold, K&N, Underdrive Pulleys. I ran two S2K's and barely beat both. 4000.00 in the whole car and beat them both. One from a launch and one highway. I really think the TT may be faster? Really. Gave the MX6 to my son and should stage a race someday. I also trailed an 05 Mustang GT from a light and he could not pull away. Ran a Standard Cayman and pulled him killed an RSX S. 

On my 225 TT I have done the APR 91, Madmax DV, ECS lightened crank Pulley. Going to gut the cats soon and do some Nuespeed Springs. Gutting cats is always controversial with most people say it won't help. Well I have eliminated them on 3 cars and let me tell you it is big power. So being that our Cats are not all that large I think this could work well. I will keep everyone posted. 

I really think you have to try one from a launch though. Turn the ESP off launch from about 4000 and don't let off the throttle between shifts to keep the boost on as much as you can. This is really hard on them but if you want to win? 

I can tell you that the Madmax DV help a lot over a Forge type unit I had. Not any more boost but quicker to re-boost between gears. Check your system too for leaks. After buying the DV he sent me a kit for free to borrow and send back when done. Found a leak and it made a major difference. This could also be a culprit.


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## PLAYED TT (Oct 17, 2010)

Mantvis said:


> Well how would gti do then?


Badly


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## night_OWL (Nov 15, 2011)

Arnolds64 said:


> Gutting cats is always controversial with most people say it won't help. Well I have eliminated them on 3 cars and let me tell you it is big power. So being that our Cats are not all that large I think this could work well.


Why not swap the DP for a 42DD unit? If you went with the Race setup, you would be running the straight through like your gutted cats would be, but you would also allow more flow in going from the 2-to-1 stock DP to the 1-to-1 42DD... Just my 2 cents

Also, how do you like the LW pully? I understand the concept behind them, but I didn't think it would do much as far as cutting unsprung weight. True?


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## Nihuel (Mar 31, 2010)

I'm interested in this ^ as well. Was wondering if its best to get just the light weight ones over the underdrives. I heard those potentially mess with the flow of the motor :sly:


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## night_OWL (Nov 15, 2011)

To the OP:

Like others have stated here, pulling an S2k from a roll might be pretty difficult... starting in 3rd has your turbo spooled and ready, but you have only 10-20MPH before you run out the gear. Shifting in to 4th, you lose your boost pressure, although the turbo is spooled... I would try and start in 4th (should be about 2500RPM), but you will be able to ride you boost from 3k-5500RPM...


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## GTI_22_VR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

PLAYED TT said:


> Badly


James your wrong here man... The gti with the Ko4 just like the 225 TT's will beat the chipped TTs...


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

GTI_22_VR6 said:


> James your wrong here man... The gti with the Ko4 just like the 225 TT's will beat the chipped TTs...


Correct.


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## germanengineering g60 (Aug 20, 2007)

GTI_22_VR6 said:


> James your wrong here man... The gti with the Ko4 just like the 225 TT's will beat the chipped TTs...


does the GTI have a K04 turbo?


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## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

n if i am not mistaken cmes with the k03 stock..


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## GTI_22_VR6 (Jun 26, 2007)

germanengineering g60 said:


> does the GTI have a K04 turbo?


Nope they dont they come with a Ko3s stock! But even those chipped will give a chipped 225 a run... I would be surprise if a uni stg 2+ would beat a 225 chipped


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## PLAYED TT (Oct 17, 2010)

Well yeah if they had ko4's lol. Matt had his stg 2 APR GTI and my stg 1 gave him a run for his money. He even admitted that himself.


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