# New K04 Turbo



## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

So I went to USP Motorsports to pick up my car yesterday following the APR K04 install. They also installed an APR FMIC, new turbo inlet/outlet pipes, serviced my DSG transmission and performed an air induction cleaning. 

My hat goes off to Chris Green at USP Motorsports. They didn't just install the turbo and throw the default APR program in the ECU and send me on my way, no, he put the car on the Dyno, sent the logs to APR and they tweaked the programming not once, but at least 4 times to achieve the best performance increasing the torque and hp. I was able to see the last pull on the Dyno  

The car is absolutely amazing! The torque is constant through the entire power band and it pulls like scalded dog, holy crap! 

Unfortunate for me that it rained, no poured my entire ride home and I wasn't able to really test it out yesterday, but this morning the roads had dried and I gave her a run for her money. 

I had been experiencing surging on APR Stage II and that is now gone! I was also experiencing a little bit of a rough idle on start up and since the air induction cleaning, that has smoothed out as well. 

Certainly one happy camper here  

A round of applause to Chris Green, Mike Van Valkenburgh and the staff at USP Motorsports. They do things right there :thumbup:


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## CC_VW1019 (May 28, 2012)

Good review. :thumbup: 

How about the exhaust springs? Were those updated as well/addressed by APR/USP Motorsports? 

opcorn:


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

Exhaust springs were not updated and don't seem to be a problem. There are no misfires at this time. I'm not absolutely sure, but I would have to imagine if they were the weak springs, they would have already reared their ugly selves. 

I have mentally prepared myself for that problem, but have kept my fingers crossed.


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## CC_VW1019 (May 28, 2012)

9r's_CC said:


> Exhaust springs were not updated and don't seem to be a problem. There are no misfires at this time. I'm not absolutely sure, but I would have to imagine if they were the weak springs, they would have already reared their ugly selves.
> 
> I have mentally prepared myself for that problem, but have kept my fingers crossed.


 :thumbup: 

Keep us updated, throw up a vid or two for us! 

ps - any dyno reports you're able to share? curious as to the extra umph that was provided!! :laugh:


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

That's awesome they dynoed it for you!!!'....I'm curious for numbers too....I'm hitting the dyno this weekend wirth mine


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## Quinones (Apr 19, 2013)

Congrats and nice that they treated you well throughout. Will stay tuned to see if you could share dyno results.


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm at work and the Dynojet graph is at home on my desk. If my memory serves me right the numbers at the wheels were: 

341 WFT-LBS Torque 
301 WHP 

If the numbers are different, I'll update them when I get home.


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

NIC, those are some stout numbers....im hoping for 300 or above torque this time....338 is crazy on a fwd car:thumbup:


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

The torque was originally in the 200's before the customizing work with APR.


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## Gorillapimp (Apr 29, 2013)

I get all my work done at USP Motorsports and every time I go the I'm amazed of how knowledgable and professional they are. 2 thunbs up ! Sick numbers man!


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## Stero1D (Aug 8, 2012)

9r's_CC said:


> The torque was originally in the 200's before the customizing work with APR.


 wow....thats great bro!!! so just putting ko4 n using APR program that they provide w the kit isnt going to put you 300+?


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Nice numbers. At what point do these motors need opened up and upgraded (rods, etc...) to stay safe and 'reliable'?


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

Turb02 said:


> Nice numbers. At what point do these motors need opened up and upgraded (rods, etc...) to stay safe and 'reliable'?


 I heard around 350whp u wanna start looking into internals....OP should be good


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

Stero1D said:


> wow....thats great bro!!! so just putting ko4 n using APR program that they provide w the kit isnt going to put you 300+?


 APR claims you need the intake, catback and IC to get the advertised numbers. That siad, the stock catback on the CC is not very restricting. Its better than the OEM GTI exhaust (which is what APR dynoed with I believe). Anyway, you can probably drop the catback and get very close to the advertised numbers.

The problem with the CC is the bum exhaust valves. I have the bum valves so I am running APR's reduced output file and I can tell a difference above about 5400 rpm. Low end torq feels the same to me though.


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

jspirate said:


> APR claims you need the intake, catback and IC to get the advertised numbers. That siad, the stock catback on the CC is not very restricting. Its better than the OEM GTI exhaust (which is what APR dynoed with I believe). Anyway, you can probably drop the catback and get very close to the advertised numbers.
> 
> The problem with the CC is the bum exhaust valves. I have the bum valves so I am running APR's reduced output file and I can tell a difference above about 5400 rpm. Low end torq feels the same to me though.


 Dang so u gotta run a weaker file?....that sucks, especially if its in the top end where the k04 outshines the 03


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

AZ_CC said:


> I heard around 350whp u wanna start looking into internals....OP should be good


 So to go stage 3, one would be wise to upgrade internals? 

Not that Im looking at doing this. 

OP, is it typical for a tuner/installer to fine tune the parameters of the canned tune for a project like this?


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

Turb02 said:


> So to go stage 3, one would be wise to upgrade internals?
> 
> Not that Im looking at doing this.
> 
> OP, is it typical for a tuner/installer to fine tune the parameters of the canned tune for a project like this?


 Yea stage 3 definitely.....k04 would be the farthest I'd go with stock internals. 

I'm not the OP but i haven't heard too much of shops sending logs to get tweaked so thats awesome they did that for him....kudos to them :thumbup:


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## Stero1D (Aug 8, 2012)

jspirate said:


> APR claims you need the intake, catback and IC to get the advertised numbers. That siad, the stock catback on the CC is not very restricting. Its better than the OEM GTI exhaust (which is what APR dynoed with I believe). Anyway, you can probably drop the catback and get very close to the advertised numbers.
> 
> The problem with the CC is the bum exhaust valves. I have the bum valves so I am running APR's reduced output file and I can tell a difference above about 5400 rpm. Low end torq feels the same to me though.


 bro what is the bum exhaust valves? 

i guess im going to put s3 cooler.... need to see if its direct fit..... anybody has it on their CCs?


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

Turb02 said:


> OP, is it typical for a tuner/installer to fine tune the parameters of the canned tune for a project like this?


 It is not typical for the installer to go above and beyond to fine tune the parameters. They invested a great deal more hours doing so than what they charged me for. Although, I have had ALL of my work done at their shop too. 

They take good care of their customers. IMO, it drives return business and recommendations through word of mouth.


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

Stero1D said:


> wow....thats great bro!!! so just putting ko4 n using APR program that they provide w the kit isnt going to put you 300+?


 You might get close, but the supporting mods are what opens the car up to truely support that K04. I don't claim to be an expert by no means. It's a fun and expensive hobby


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Anyone look into the frankenturbo?

Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


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## CC_VW1019 (May 28, 2012)

Stero1D said:


> bro what is the bum exhaust valves?


 See APR's response (link below) as to the weak exhaust valves on the CC when running a k04. This pertains to the newer CC's which run the specific OEM ECU file referenced thereto (I believe it was 2011+, somebody correct me if I am wrong) 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...SI-K04-MED17.5.2-Misfire-Issue-(GLI-CC-Passat)


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

But it's not just with the k04, I thought people were having issues with stage 1 tunes. It right happens or it doesn't. So if you've got a tune and its not happening, you've got nothing to worry about if you go k04, right?

Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

Turb02 said:


> So to go stage 3, one would be wise to upgrade internals?
> 
> Not that Im looking at doing this.
> 
> OP, is it typical for a tuner/installer to fine tune the parameters of the canned tune for a project like this?


 You can go stage 3 and make more on a bt then a ko4, the reason you'll need stronger internals with a ko4 at a lower hp is bc of the huge amount of tq smaller turbos produce. 

OP's ko4 made 300whp with 340wtq where a Bt could make 400 whp and 350wtq. It's tq that bends rods not hp. Ive been Bt for about 8 months now and im on stock internals for now and have had zero issues. 



Turb02 said:


> Anyone look into the frankenturbo?
> 
> Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


 Ive heard the frankenturbo setup on a tsi is making 350-400whp on stock tsi parts idk what the tq was tho. 


Sent from my Galaxy S3


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## CC_VW1019 (May 28, 2012)

Turb02 said:


> But it's not just with the k04, I thought people were having issues with stage 1 tunes. It right happens or it doesn't. So if you've got a tune and its not happening, you've got nothing to worry about if you go k04, right?
> 
> Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


 Disclaimer: 
This would probably be best answered by an APR rep, as my input is solely based on what I read, and what I interpret may be different than how someone else interprets it. 

Response: 
From my understanding (and if I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me) - the exhaust springs on the newer CCs/GLI, in conjunction with running the specific ECU program - had no negative impact on an OEM, Stage 1 and Stage 2 mapping. 

The problems started to occur when the k03 turbo was swapped to the k04 and exhaust back-pressure was significant to cause the springs to fail. APR provided a solution with a downward adjustment to the k04 ECU software to help address the matter.


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Bill6211789 said:


> You can go stage 3 and make more on a bt then a ko4, the reason you'll need stronger internals with a ko4 at a lower hp is bc of the huge amount of tq smaller turbos produce.
> 
> OP's ko4 made 300whp with 340wtq where a Bt could make 400 whp and 350wtq. It's tq that bends rods not hp. Ive been Bt for about 8 months now and im on stock internals for now and have had zero issues.
> 
> ...


 What are your numbers using a bt? The Frankenturbo setup is in the 380's tq, with stock intercooler. Doesn't say if it's got upgraded rods

Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

I dont have exact numbers, i haven't had tike to dyno. But tuners make stock rod safe tunes. Im in the 350-400whp area, im pushing boost slightly higher then i should be.

Im liking what frankenturbo is doing tho. I would definitely have upgraded the intercooler tho. 

Sent from my Galaxy S3


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

Just sucks with frankenturbo that u need to buy the software to tune it as well as find someone to tune it....but it's a smoking deal for the set up


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

AZ_CC said:


> Just sucks with frankenturbo that u need to buy the software to tune it as well as find someone to tune it....but it's a smoking deal for the set up


 Eurodyne should have a basic off the shelf file for the frankenturbo setup and if you wanted more out of the tune yoid need to have it dyno tuned and im sure Uni will have one too soon. I know they have a 1.8t frankenturbo tune. 

Sent from my Galaxy S3


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Bill6211789 said:


> Eurodyne should have a basic off the shelf file for the frankenturbo setup and if you wanted more out of the tune yoid need to have it dyno tuned and im sure Uni will have one too soon. I know they have a 1.8t frankenturbo tune.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S3


 Exactly, from what I've read, they do. It's very tempting...down the road.

Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

That's awesome, maybe something I'll look into later as well so long as the prices stay good where they're at. 

And yea turbo u already have lots to do in ur garage waiting lol lets not add another Hahahahahahahah


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

AZ_CC said:


> That's awesome, maybe something I'll look into later as well so long as the prices stay good where they're at.
> 
> And yea turbo u already have lots to do in ur garage waiting lol lets not add another Hahahahahahahah


 Haha, if I keep buying,I may have to move into the garage!!

Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

K04 day at USP Motorsports 
 

A little Dyno action


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

I'm glad you like the changes. Existing customers, get ready for some new free updates in the near future.


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I'm glad you like the changes. Existing customers, get ready for some new free updates in the near future.


 Oh!? What sort of updates Arin?


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## ptfern (Apr 15, 2004)

Stero1D said:


> bro what is the bum exhaust valves?
> 
> i guess im going to put s3 cooler.... need to see if its direct fit..... anybody has it on their CCs?


 
Yeah... it'll work. Pretty much plug and play. I'll have one for sale soon if interested.


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## clean01golf (Jul 4, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> I'm glad you like the changes. Existing customers, get ready for some new free updates in the near future.


 I have the k04 on my 2012 Rline and went thru 2 sets of coil packs and was stranded a few times from dead cylinders and misfires. My APR dealer flashed it to the "detuned" set up and the power just doesnt seem to be there like it was to begin with/  It almost reminds me of driving a heat soaked car at all times. I hope there is more ecu tweaks coming so the power comes back.


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## pandavw86 (Mar 29, 2010)

clean01golf said:


> I have the k04 on my 2012 Rline and went thru 2 sets of coil packs and was stranded a few times from dead cylinders and misfires. My APR dealer flashed it to the "detuned" set up and the power just doesnt seem to be there like it was to begin with/  It almost reminds me of driving a heat soaked car at all times. I hope there is more ecu tweaks coming so the power comes back.


 You need to run the R8 coilpacks... I have that on my CC and together with the APR Ko4 file, APR IC, Carbonio... Its running great


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## airmax1 (Dec 8, 2008)

pandavw86 said:


> You need to run the R8 coilpacks... I have that on my CC and together with the APR Ko4 file, APR IC, Carbonio... Its running great


 Funny how APR dosen't tell you to change plugs and coilpacks...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stero1D (Aug 8, 2012)

ptfern said:


> Yeah... it'll work. Pretty much plug and play. I'll have one for sale soon if interested.


 U got used one or new one? How much? . Cld u tell me more about "pretty much plug n play"?!


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## Stero1D (Aug 8, 2012)

9r's_CC said:


> Oh!? What sort of updates Arin?


 I had the same question 

Ko4 customers only? Or stage 1 n 2 as well?


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## Gradysmith (Feb 18, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I'm glad you like the changes. Existing customers, get ready for some new free updates in the near future.


 Hopefully we're talking version 3 for K04!


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I'm glad you like the changes. Existing customers, get ready for some new free updates in the near future.


 Damn... if that ain't a tease I don't know what is!

I wish you could make a map that addresses bogus hardware


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

9r's_CC said:


> The torque was originally in the 200's before the customizing work with APR.


 Im betting the customized tuning will be the update to existing customers. Not custom tuning for everyone, but they were able to get that much more out of the SW, theyll make a file for this.


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## clean01golf (Jul 4, 2003)

red coil packs and plugs installed still had flashing check engine and miss fire codes followed by limp mode and not running. It hasn't done it since the detunes software, just sucks that I have to run a detuned set up compared to what was sold to begin with. Just my 2 cents if I had to do it again I would of held out for the AWE kit to match the rest of my set up but at the time they didn't offer a tune for k04 on a 12... but apparently apr didn't either lol.


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## airmax1 (Dec 8, 2008)

clean01golf said:


> red coil packs and plugs installed still had flashing check engine and miss fire codes followed by limp mode and not running. It hasn't done it since the detunes software, just sucks that I have to run a detuned set up compared to what was sold to begin with. Just my 2 cents if I had to do it again I would of held out for the AWE kit to match the rest of my set up but at the time they didn't offer a tune for k04 on a 12... but apparently apr didn't either lol.


 What plugs are you using? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## clean01golf (Jul 4, 2003)

I can't remember which plugs ill ask the shop tonight but I think it was whatever plugs come with the red coil packs


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## airmax1 (Dec 8, 2008)

clean01golf said:


> I can't remember which plugs ill ask the shop tonight but I think it was whatever plugs come with the red coil packs


 Your problem can be right there. I find out at my expense same way. APR doesn't tell us what plugs we should use and what gap. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

airmax1 said:


> Funny how APR dosen't tell you to change plugs and coilpacks.


 We also don't tell you to change your oil, or clean your air filter. :laugh: 

When we calibrated our K04 software, the vehicle had stock plugs and stock coilpacks. 

If your plugs are bad, replace them. 

If your coilpacks are bad, replace them. 

Stage 3 and 3+ both use stock coil packs. 

Stage 3 and 3+ use different spark plugs. They are included with the kit.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

clean01golf said:


> I have the k04 on my 2012 Rline and went thru 2 sets of coil packs and was stranded a few times from dead cylinders and misfires. My APR dealer flashed it to the "detuned" set up and the power just doesnt seem to be there like it was to begin with/  It almost reminds me of driving a heat soaked car at all times. I hope there is more ecu tweaks coming so the power comes back.


 It sounds like you have this OEM issue: 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...SI-K04-MED17.5.2-Misfire-Issue-(GLI-CC-Passat)


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jspirate said:


> Damn... if that ain't a tease I don't know what is!
> 
> I wish you could make a map that addresses bogus hardware


 This one? 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...SI-K04-MED17.5.2-Misfire-Issue-(GLI-CC-Passat) 

We do have a lower output file. It will have less back pressure and will prevent the valve from opening prematurely if all is well. Try it out? I think you have if I'm not mistaken. Did it work?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Turb02 said:


> Im betting the customized tuning will be the update to existing customers. Not custom tuning for everyone, but they were able to get that much more out of the SW, theyll make a file for this.


 Correct. We were working on a few items on a different vehicle (VW Superbeetle) a few months back which we applied to the k04 while tuning overseas. We had a chance to test it in house and liked it and began giving some of the code out for dyno testing. The results seem wonderful so far! We'll be updating everyone in the future after a little more testing and more features.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

clean01golf said:


> Just my 2 cents if I had to do it again I would of held out for the AWE kit to match the rest of my set up but at the time they didn't offer a tune for k04 on a 12... but apparently apr didn't either lol.


 If you have weak exhaust valves, there are two solutions: 

1 lower peak power 
2 replace the valve springs 

No tuner is immune to this. AWE swaps customers springs too.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

airmax1 said:


> APR doesn't tell us what plugs we should use and what gap.


 We don't? Have you ever spoken to tech support? Did you know we tuned our K04 software on the OEM plugs at the OEM gap? 

If you ever have a problem call us! 

If something's off, maybe the plugs need to be replaced. Maybe the gap is too wide. Try gapping them closer to something like .028. Maybe your engine is a bit temperamental... try a lower head range. Maybe that will help. We use NGK PFR7B on our stage 3 kit and I never had a problem, or a benefit, using them on my own K04 GTI, but that's what I went with since they were on the shelf!


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> This one?
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...SI-K04-MED17.5.2-Misfire-Issue-(GLI-CC-Passat)
> 
> We do have a lower output file. It will have less back pressure and will prevent the valve from opening prematurely if all is well. Try it out? I think you have if I'm not mistaken. Did it work?


 Yes. I have it and it did fix the misfires. I just miss the top end from the original map. 

My comments meant to express that I wish the bogus exhaust valves could be fixed (ie. regular output) with software instead of having to replace the valves.

I know you can't fix hardware with software. I was just saying...




[email protected] said:


> Correct. We were working on a few items on a different vehicle (VW Superbeetle) a few months back which we applied to the k04 while tuning overseas. We had a chance to test it in house and liked it and began giving some of the code out for dyno testing. The results seem wonderful so far! We'll be updating everyone in the future after a little more testing and more features.


 Ohhhhhh no... this sounds like I need to move up my exhaust springs replacement!


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## airmax1 (Dec 8, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> We also don't tell you to change your oil, or clean your air filter. :laugh:
> 
> When we calibrated our K04 software, the vehicle had stock plugs and stock coilpacks.
> 
> ...


 Funny, really funny. Apr suggest to use APR fmi and apr intake to maximize the set-up, I was questioning why APR doesn't suggest to change stock coilpacks and stocks plugs after everyone after few hundred miles NEED TO. Not talking about the few dyno pull in your shop. I just wish in the fine print was also clear about plugs&coilpack. Just a suggestion!! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

AZ_CC said:


> Just sucks with frankenturbo that u need to buy the software to tune it as well as find someone to tune it....but it's a smoking deal for the set up


 There will be a Eurodyne and GIAC file.


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> There will be a Eurodyne and GIAC file.


 If GIAC gets in on this and offers a tune for it then the frankenturbo will be added to my list


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

AZ_CC said:


> If GIAC gets in on this and offers a tune for it then the frankenturbo will be added to my list


 Ive been thinking the same thing. And they said there will be a rod safe tune for the F23T for the 2.0tsi... 

Im hesitant due to the lack of Eurodyne support in my area though, and since AWE/GIAC are getting numbers close to the FT, its a tough call. 

Sorry to pollute this thread with non APR K04 nonsense


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

airmax1 said:


> Funny, really funny. Apr suggest to use APR fmi and apr intake to maximize the set-up, I was questioning why APR doesn't suggest to change stock coilpacks and stocks plugs after everyone after few hundred miles NEED TO. Not talking about the few dyno pull in your shop. I just wish in the fine print was also clear about plugs&coilpack. Just a suggestion!!


 Understood, but if they don't need to be changed, they don't need to be changed. What's that saying? _If it ain't broken, don't fix it?_  

One dirty jetta we have at the shop has 90k on the stock plugs and stock coil packs, APR TSI K04. Daily drives an hour + to work both ways.


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## airmax1 (Dec 8, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Understood, but if they don't need to be changed, they don't need to be changed. What's that saying? _If it ain't broken, don't fix it?_
> 
> One dirty jetta we have at the shop has 90k on the stock plugs and stock coil packs, APR TSI K04. Daily drives an hour + to work both ways.


 I wanna that jetta....


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Understood, but if they don't need to be changed, they don't need to be changed. What's that saying? _If it ain't broken, don't fix it?_
> 
> One dirty jetta we have at the shop has 90k on the stock plugs and stock coil packs, APR TSI K04. Daily drives an hour + to work both ways.


 And... A whole bunch of folks buying new red R8 coil packs and iridium spark plugs!? Serious? Show me the difference in a red coil pack and a CC OEM one someone, please. Not much of a price difference. I've heard through the grapevine, there is no difference. Vehicles have even been tested with even the $700 plasma coil packs on the Dyno with no improvement. 

Go ahead, please chime in and convince me why I need to waste my money on new coil packs.  

Just sayin'


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

9r's_CC said:


> And... A whole bunch of folks buying new red R8 coil packs and iridium spark plugs!? Serious? *Show me the difference in a red coil pack and a CC OEM one someone, please.* Not much of a price difference. I've heard through the grapevine, there is no difference. Vehicles have even been tested with even the $700 plasma coil packs on the Dyno with no improvement.
> 
> Go ahead, please chime in and convince me why I need to waste my money on new coil packs.
> 
> Just sayin'


 I'm not going to take you up on that offer! 

R8 Coil packs, Iridium plugs, plasma coils? *APR DOES NOT RECOMMEND THESE*  

I'm not sure where this information's coming from, but it's not me. 

*We recommend the OEM Spark Plugs and Coilpacks.* 

*We calibrate using the OEM Spark Plugs and Coilpacks.* 

Our *STAGE 3 and 3+* kits use NGK PFR7B spark plugs. Those are different from stock and are included in our stage 3 and 3+ kit. If you _want_ to use those, you can. I haven't seen any problems with them.


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not going to take you up on that offer!
> 
> R8 Coil packs, Iridium plugs, plasma coils? *APR DOES NOT RECOMMEND THESE*
> 
> ...


 Excellent, thanks Arin!


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

So, with some better weather... I've been able to really get the car moving. It's pretty easy to get the wheels spinning in not only first, but second and third gears. Heck the traction control light will even come on in forth gear. (Must remember to turn that off) 

When I drive the car like I stole it, when I hit forth gear between 5-6K RPM's, the engine appears to be misfiring, but no CEL and no limp mode. Second and third gear between 5-6K RPM's are fine. I did about 4 pulls in a row and was finally able to pull a CEL, but still no limp mode and the CEL cleared within a few seconds.

A little trip back to USP motorsports and sure enough I have the weak exhaust springs :banghead:

I'm going to get a full compliment of intake and exhaust springs installed because I don't want a lessor tune and I want the full potential of the engine. I had hoped I didn't have the weaker springs, but like I said earlier, I was mentally and financially prepared to replace them.

Just wanted to give you guys an update.


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## Quinones (Apr 19, 2013)

9r's_CC said:


> So, with some better weather... I've been able to really get the car moving. It's pretty easy to get the wheels spinning in not only first, but second and third gears. Heck the traction control light will even come on in forth gear. (Must remember to turn that off)
> 
> When I drive the car like I stole it, when I hit forth gear between 5-6K RPM's, the engine appears to be misfiring, but no CEL and no limp mode. Second and third gear between 5-6K RPM's are fine. I did about 4 pulls in a row and was finally able to pull a CEL, but still no limp mode and the CEL cleared within a few seconds.
> 
> ...


 Interesting and thanks for the update. Good luck with the springs!


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

9r's_CC said:


> I'm going to get a full compliment of intake and exhaust springs installed because I don't want a lessor tune and I want the full potential of the engine. I had hoped I didn't have the weaker springs, but like I said earlier, I was mentally and financially prepared to replace them.
> 
> Just wanted to give you guys an update.


We should start a K04-bogus-exhaust-springs support group 

I am going to do the exhaust valves also, but traction is more important right now. The lower output file doesn't change things below 5400 rpms. Or at least it doesn't feel like it does. I can feel the difference above 5400. its noticeable to say the least. So, its traction first and then springs later.

For those thinking k04, the big picture doesn't get mentioned much. The cost of traction and valve springs easily outweighs the cost of the k04 and supporting hardware. That said, its still an amazing value and makes for one damn nice sleeper.


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## J.Iverson (May 15, 2012)

What is the trick for traction? Pilot super sports helped a ton, but if there is a way to get more hookup and less spin.....I'm all ears.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

J.Iverson said:


> What is the trick for traction? Pilot super sports helped a ton, but if there is a way to get more hookup and less spin.....I'm all ears.


Limited Slip Differential

And if you have a 6MT you will need a clutch when you go K04. Thats traction of a different sort though


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

Man this all sucks about weak exhaust valves and not being able to take full advantage of the k04....this is crazy ive never heard of this before this thread, glad it was made and ppl can be aware now.

How would one know or check if they have the weak ones?


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

AZ_CC said:


> Man this all sucks about weak exhaust valves and not being able to take full advantage of the k04....this is crazy ive never heard of this before this thread, glad it was made and ppl can be aware now.
> 
> How would one know or check if they have the weak ones?


Remove the PCV cover and look at the markings on the springs.

See Arin's post HERE


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

jspirate said:


> Remove the PCV cover and look at the markings on the springs.
> 
> See Arin's post HERE


I have the springs in the middle


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

9r's_CC said:


> I have the springs in the middle


From what I have witnessed the "Markings" on the springs is not a 100% accurate way to determine if you have the "Weak" Springs. The markings on my Springs were not even listed on the Photo. 

The 100% true way to determine is to install the K04 (or stg 1-2 for some unlucky ones). If your engine freely revs to/above 6,500 rpm's under load with no flashing CEL or EPC lights you have the Stiffer OEM springs. I could replicate the issue over and over around 5,800 rpm's, once the IE springs were installed the issue went away!

:thumbup:


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

FLtrooper said:


> From what I have witnessed the "Markings" on the springs is not a 100% accurate way to determine if you have the "Weak" Springs. The markings on my Springs were not even listed on the Photo.
> 
> 
> :thumbup:


I think the ones in the photo have been confirmed to be bogus though.

Did you do just exhaust or both exhaust and intake? I haven't started the research on the spring replacement yet... Its next on the list!


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

jspirate said:


> I think the ones in the photo have been confirmed to be bogus though.
> 
> Did you do just exhaust or both exhaust and intake? I haven't started the research on the spring replacement yet... Its next on the list!


IE recommended to perform both the exhaust and intake springs and NOT to use just one or the other. The IE spring kit also is designed to be used with the IE Ti-Retainers (everything is included in the kit), I had everything installed at the same time. 

:thumbup:


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

FLtrooper said:


> IE recommended to perform both the exhaust and intake springs and NOT to use just one or the other. The IE spring kit also is designed to be used with the IE Ti-Retainers (everything is included in the kit), I had everything installed at the same time.
> 
> :thumbup:


How long did they have the car?


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## airmax1 (Dec 8, 2008)

FLtrooper said:


> IE recommended to perform both the exhaust and intake springs and NOT to use just one or the other. The IE spring kit also is designed to be used with the IE Ti-Retainers (everything is included in the kit), I had everything installed at the same time.
> 
> :thumbup:


And if you don't mind share the total cost?$$$


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ptfern (Apr 15, 2004)

airmax1 said:


> And if you don't mind share the total cost?$$$
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I think I might have been the first CC to get the springs done on a KO4. Parts was around $500 plus another $400-$500 labor. Did them back in January. Fixed the issue.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

jspirate said:


> How long did they have the car?


A decent shop can complete the task in a full day!



airmax1 said:


> And if you don't mind share the total cost?$$$
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


$1200 seems to be a decent rate for parts and labor.


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

So I recently had Integrated Engineering springs installed and much to my surprise... it didn't resolve the misfire issue. The new springs did however make it less noticeable. Now she's not misfiring in 2nd gear at all, but still in 3rd & 4th gears around 6k rpm. 

Another trip to the performance shop and the car spent the week there in hopes to get the misfire issue resolved. Plugs were replaced, the valves were cleaned, a fuel injector replaced and 6 hours on the Dyno attempting to make things right.

I dropped off my lovely rental car (Dodge Charger) this morning and picked up my very much missed friend. They did every thing they could and I was advised if I wasn't happy with the car to take it up with APR.

I'm running the beta file and was told some vehicles are doing fine on the new file and others are not. I was also informed that my car now runs fine on the production software since the new springs, valve cleaning etc.

I insisted on keeping the beta file because the torque is un-freekin-believable! I'll take the torque of 341 at the wheels over hp any day of the week. The hp at 301 at the wheels isn't too shabby either. It's a huge improvement!

So, anyway... I picked up the car and much to my surprise, she's running like a champ and so far I couldn't be happier. Wait... although I was able to make a couple of hard runs, I wasn't able yet to push it to the limit.

For those of you waiting for the new APR K04 software, be advised...

I'll keep you posted. I couldn't imagine going back to the K03 or a lessor tune. The K04 with the beta tune is bad to the bone!


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

Glad ur back to enjoying ur car man and hopefully it stays that way :beer:


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## MrRline (Apr 6, 2010)

9r's_CC said:


> K04 day at USP Motorsports
> 
> A little Dyno action


I'm curious were you using a potato or a wet mop for the filming of your dyno?


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

MrRline said:


> I'm curious were you using a potato or a wet mop for the filming of your dyno?


I didn't even think to record it actually. The service manager sent me a recording that he had captured. Wish I had better, but...


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## MrRline (Apr 6, 2010)

9r's_CC said:


> I didn't even think to record it actually. The service manager sent me a recording that he had captured. Wish I had better, but...


Ah man you gotta get a good cam when you do that stuff. Did one for Sean out here with a point and shoot with HD came out great. Definitely something you want to invest in with that much work in a car.


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

MrRline said:


> Ah man you gotta get a good cam when you do that stuff. Did one for Sean out here with a point and shoot with HD came out great. Definitely something you want to invest in with that much work in a car.


Be ready for this coming winter to do some more dyno recordings when i get the neuspeed IC and now that i have the P flo intake


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## MrRline (Apr 6, 2010)

AZ_CC said:


> Be ready for this coming winter to do some more dyno recordings when i get the neuspeed IC and now that i have the P flo intake


Sounds good, maybe we an get the merc up there too one Saturday


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

MrRline said:


> Sounds good, maybe we an get the merc up there too one Saturday


Hahaha yea right not after what happened at cars and coffee last week


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## MrRline (Apr 6, 2010)

AZ_CC said:


> Hahaha yea right not after what happened at cars and coffee last week


lol I know like I said i'm calling off going for August. It's just too hot to justify going out there, plus last time everyone was leaving when we got there. It just wasn't worth it. About the best part of the whole day was sitting in the blue Cayman S up at Porsche North Scottsdale.


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## ina04gli1.8t (Sep 24, 2010)

AZ_CC said:


> Yea stage 3 definitely.....k04 would be the farthest I'd go with stock internals.
> 
> I'm not the OP but i haven't heard too much of shops sending logs to get tweaked so thats awesome they did that for him....kudos to them :thumbup:


APR claims stg3 is no problem with stock internals as long as one doesn't go above 93 octane.


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## PGZee (Jul 3, 2013)

Congrats on the KO4 upgrade!! So awesome!!! I'll never go back, I'm spoiled now!!


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

ina04gli1.8t said:


> APR claims stg3 is no problem with stock internals as long as one doesn't go above 93 octane.


Yea but thats even pushing it....and then wheres the fun if u cant throw some 100 octane and meth in it to be blasting....im just saying me personally i wouldnt go past k04 without forging some engine parts, just for piece of mind


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## Jaywaterski (Dec 11, 2012)

*stage 3 no problem*

If you have read various threads stage 3 is truly the way to go less back preasure smoother tq build up higher horsepower and tq. All in all better design


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

If u say so....u have stage 3 i don't....idk how hard u drive ur car or even how often/ how many miles u put on it in a year....but im curious to see how urs lasts....me personally i like to DRIVE my car so i need some reliability


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

AZ_CC said:


> If u say so....u have stage 3 i don't....idk how hard u drive ur car or even how often/ how many miles u put on it in a year....but im curious to see how urs lasts....me personally i like to DRIVE my car so i need some reliability


Im at about 15k at stage 3 on stock internals, im also pushing boost slightly higher then i should and i dont baby my car. Even with mine being an FSI the TSI is supposed to be better/stronger with power. 

I agree stage 3 is better if you have the money to spend. Its also cheaper to just wait and go stage 3. Ive seen many 2.0t guys go ko4.....then to stage 3

Sent from my Galaxy S3


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## Jaywaterski (Dec 11, 2012)

*K04 short sighted*

Mr AZ cc 

I beat the S---- out of my car and did a year of research before going stage 3 I look at all the problems with K04 went to APR and drove both no comparison as Arin has said many times quality is worth paying for.


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## MrRline (Apr 6, 2010)

AZ_CC said:


> If u say so....u have stage 3 i don't....idk how hard u drive ur car or even how often/ how many miles u put on it in a year....but im curious to see how urs lasts....me personally i like to DRIVE my car so i need some reliability


How about I test the car for 6 months. If it isn't at the dealership or shop then it's reliable


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## ina04gli1.8t (Sep 24, 2010)

Turb02 said:


> So to go stage 3, one would be wise to upgrade internals?
> 
> Not that Im looking at doing this.
> 
> OP, is it typical for a tuner/installer to fine tune the parameters of the canned tune for a project like this?


I was at the last event at usp where a stg3 customer put down 350 whp on their mustang dyno with stock internals. Stg3 is good for 380 whp but the boost was kept down.


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## brunoxmatoss (May 24, 2013)

Why dont you swing that k04 cc by dubcartel in miami on a wednesday? =) i want to see if i should upgrade as well

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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