# *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems*



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

Ok I had the *last thread locked because 10 pages* was enough and its time to move on from discussing our options to actually seeing how many members are interested in a Cogged gear setup for their supercharged VR6.
I did not want to create this thread until I had the made gears tested and fitment issues (if any) confirmed but I guess I will have to post those later on as some members are clearly too hyper.
So are the following still interested?

_Quote, originally posted by *band members* »_*
pgoutsos
Scooter98144
mikebobelak
dcvento
2dub2euro
Aventura247
spooln6
KIEZERJOSE
windsor96vr6
Luckyzeee
mode12
DUB_4_LIFE
oddy
TnT2theMax
High Body slc
Vdubfiend
hazw8st
EuroVR6Mk3
arodvr6turbo
hubbell
The Curse
bmf31c
nutbox11
idg4ever
REDA2ROCCO 
slammedvwgolf
*


...pics on page 5











_Modified by [email protected] at 12:36 AM 5/7/2006_


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* ([email protected])*

i was in....


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## The Curse (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (hubbell)*

me 2


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## Boostedcorrados (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* ([email protected])*

Sorry i didnt feel like digging through all 10 pages.How much would the kit run and how soon are we talkin.....if its reasonable in price Im down http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Boostedcorrados)*

my supercharger is for sale but if i end up keeping it i'm still in. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* ([email protected])*

I am still very interested http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## f0xf0702k1 (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (KIEZERJOSE)*

how much will this cost?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Boostedcorrados)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Curse* »_me 2

added http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *Boostedcorrados* »_Sorry i didnt feel like digging through all 10 pages.How much would the kit run and how soon are we talkin.....if its reasonable in price Im down http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Pricing has not been finalised as yet because the more we make the cheaper they get.Ideally I would like to keep the set in the $600US price range.


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## Boostedcorrados (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Wizard-of-OD)*

600 im in.....will this have the a/c pulley aswell?


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## German VR6 (Dec 21, 2002)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Boostedcorrados)*

which gears does this include?


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## LSinLV (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (German VR6)*

what is the longevity you are seeing with this set-up....are the belts lasting more than a few K miles???
I may be interested.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (LSinLV)*

is there an estimated date of when these are going to be tested and ready for production and sale??


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## Luckyzeee (Feb 9, 2002)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (DUB_4_LIFE)*

I'm still in!


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## The Curse (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Luckyzeee)*

i dont need the a/c stuff, or power steering-so on that note im still in


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* ([email protected])*

Do you mean cogged pulleys? Which pulleys will be cogged? How much will it cost? What type of compressor is it for? How many teeth will the compressor pulley have?


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## Boostedcorrados (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Wizard-of-OD)*

with those teeth what boost levels will this be pushing?


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## bmf31c (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Boostedcorrados)*

Please add me


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Boostedcorrados)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Boostedcorrados* »_600 im in.....will this have the a/c pulley aswell? 

The back of the serpentine belt runs on the outside of the AC compressor so It wont need a cog gear.

_Quote, originally posted by *German VR6* »_which gears does this include?

* Crankshaft
* Supercharger
* Power Steering Pump
* Alternator

_Quote, originally posted by *LSinLV* »_what is the longevity you are seeing with this set-up....are the belts lasting more than a few K miles???

Well the Connitech belt is rated for 150,000km's since its a normal GT2 toothed belt.

_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_4_LIFE* »_ready for production and sale?? 

will be ready for production as soon as they are tested and everything confirmed.I dont want you guys to have any issues down the line.

_Quote, originally posted by *The Curse* »_i dont need the a/c stuff, or power steering-so on that note im still in

I will need to make a note of that as I was doing them in groups.http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_What type of compressor is it for? How many teeth will the compressor pulley have?

Its for a C2/Vortech Supercharger,you can find more information in the original thread above.The SC Pulley prototype has 27 teeth and the crank pulley had 52 teeth.









That put the Crank : SC pulley ratio @ 1.926 which most of us agreed was the safe limit.After the tests if more boost is needed then more boost it is









_Quote, originally posted by *Boostedcorrados* »_with those teeth what boost levels will this be pushing?

Hoping for 17 psi,we will see what happens.

_Quote, originally posted by *bmf31c* »_Please add me

added.... 22 and counting








If I am forgetting anything guys just feel free to IM me or post in here.It really is not a bother http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* ([email protected])*

thanks for the quick responses to all the questions. now a question for all the guys in here planning on this kit. will 9:1 compression with 42# injectors, Stage II C2 chip, and a walbro inline be fine for fueling for the 17psi or should i go 8.5:1 just to be on the safe side of things?


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## tdubbin (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (DUB_4_LIFE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_4_LIFE* »_thanks for the quick responses to all the questions. now a question for all the guys in here planning on this kit. will 9:1 compression with 42# injectors, Stage II C2 chip, and a walbro inline be fine for fueling for the 17psi or should i go 8.5:1 just to be on the safe side of things? 

good question because I am running the same setup....any idea about how much whp will be expected with the same set up as mentioned above? (with the cogged pulleys added)

_Modified by tdubbin at 3:59 PM 2-28-2006_


_Modified by tdubbin at 3:59 PM 2-28-2006_


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## pgoutsos (Dec 1, 2001)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (tdubbin)*

I know of a few vr6 turbos running around with the c2 fuelling kit (which is the 42lb kit) hitting upwards of 20lbs of boost.


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## Boostedcorrados (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* ([email protected])*

17psi im so in http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (tdubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdubbin* »_
good question because I am running the same setup....any idea about how much whp will be expected with the same set up as mentioned above? (with the cogged pulleys added)


the whole reason this was started besides belt slip was to make it not such a challenge for SC VR6's to hit 300whp without it costing an arm and a leg so hopefully with the cogged setup at 17psi and good fueling 300+ whp will be a good possibility http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (pgoutsos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pgoutsos* »_I know of a few vr6 turbos running around with the c2 fuelling kit (which is the 42lb kit) hitting upwards of 20lbs of boost.

yeah but my question is would it be best to run 9:1 or 8.5:1 compression for 17psi.


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (DUB_4_LIFE)*

9.0:1 id say....17psi is for a split second only and if you go down to 8.5:1 itll be really weak...


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## WMTJ (Jan 26, 2001)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (DUB_4_LIFE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_4_LIFE* »_yeah but my question is would it be best to run 9:1 or 8.5:1 compression for 17psi.









That compression of 8.5:1 is too low and unnessesary for 17psi. Maybe if you're running 87 octane.


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (WMTJ)*

I went with 9-1 and a good IC. You would be better off putting money into a GOOD intercooler design. I have gone over to the C2 OBD1 36lb fueling system. I have a couple parts on my end that need replacing, they are giving me a little grief.
But like tonight I romp on it and WHAM 100mph is like there faster than spit on a tit. Or just give it some hard throttle in first and she peels out like a mofo and gets all swirly into second and chirps third.
All this with a 2.87" pulley. Imagine a 2.75 or um even better a cogged pulley set.
I am still in but money is tight.


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Wizard-of-OD)*

Do you plan on putting guides on some of those pulleys?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_Do you plan on putting guides on some of those pulleys? 

Just on the crank and supercharger.Powersteering and alternator should be fine,if not glue the bottom off a campbell's soup can to it


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Just on the crank and supercharger.Powersteering and alternator should be fine,if not glue the bottom off a campbell's soup can to it

















Which oem pulleys besides the crank have guides?


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Feanor)*

crickets


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_crickets
















...You want to see the pulley's?Wait for the results like everyone else....


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## -:VW:- (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Wizard-of-OD)*

Will the crank pulley be harmonically balanced? Are there concerns of damages to crank shaft from a non OEM pulley?


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_







...You want to see the pulley's?Wait for the results like everyone else....









I thought you were having some "LEGAL" issues


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_I thought you were having some "LEGAL" issues









And I bet your grinning from ear to ear....








Must be nice to see all this hard work and money go to waste eh?Think you won?I dont go down easy buddy....keep hoping.


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Wizard-of-OD)*

How could there be legal problems from a pulley? At this point no one has even seen a machined piece. VF has made sets as well as many other companies.


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## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Scooter98144)*

are there really legal issues?? 
is there any chance of a estimated date for these....later spring, early summer, late summer, fall?? 
just wondering. i'm not in a rush i just don't want to be excited for something that might not be coming around for another 6 months or even a year from now. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (DUB_4_LIFE)*

DAMIT!








I hope you work it out, i was glad some one was going to make them happen.


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## Ike Turner (Nov 17, 2005)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* ([email protected])*

This guy is a bullsh*tter. The pulleys could have been made already!


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Ike Turner)*

His cad drawings need to be modified. The crank pulley doesn't have a guide.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Ike Turner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ike Turner* »_This guy is a bullsh*tter. The pulleys could have been made already!









Relax buddy,the prototypes were made before I created this thread...just trying to sort out any legal issues I may have.Just dotting my i's and crossing my t's. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_His cad drawings need to be modified. The crank pulley doesn't have a guide.

Your looking @ the front of the drawings....It does have the guide/keyway in it.


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Wizard-of-OD)*

What legal issues?


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## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

Trust me guys this is NO BS! trying to work things out right now, and get quotes for prototype runs / production runs through my dads shop.
Maybe this could reassure some people with doubts. 


_Modified by EternalXresT at 3:41 AM 3-14-2006_


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## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

i thought i saw this thing black holed a couple hours ago








welll....i'm not longer involved in this now. I sold my blower and will be going turbo instead.


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (DUB_4_LIFE)*

I just picked this up last night:
















However it's going on a MKIV:








Will these cog gears/belts work with the MKIV cars power steering and water pump? If so I am in. If not I will be making my own, its just a crapload of work for one set. 
Cheers, Travis


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I
Will these cog gears/belts work with the MKIV cars power steering and water pump? If so I am in. If not I will be making my own, its just a crapload of work for one set

Do the 12V and 24V VR6's have the same power steering pulley offset?


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I forgot to say I have a 12V. 
I also need 42# injectors for the MKIV 12V if anyone knows a source.


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

could i possibly use those pulleys on a 2.0??


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## oppressed (Sep 18, 2005)

or everyone here could buy the VF kit when it comes out in a month or so!!!


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## Illgetyou (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: (oppressed)*

im so in on this having all sorts of belt slipping issues right now


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I forgot to say I have a 12V. 
I also need 42# injectors for the MKIV 12V if anyone knows a source. 

Ok I used a MKIII VR6 to mock up these pulley's so if they are the same on the MKIV 12V then you should be fine.It was my understanding that the only difference between the 2 was the upper portion of the intake manifold.

_Quote, originally posted by *oppressed* »_or everyone here could buy the VF kit when it comes out in a month or so!!!

*Its allready out,enjoy.....and thanks for the advertising plug* http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *the_q_jet* »_could i possibly use those pulleys on a 2.0??

No,will deal with the 4 cylinder units after I secure a production run for these.


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

What company will be selling these cogged kits once these so called "legal issues" have been resolved?


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## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
*Its allready out,enjoy.....and thanks for the advertising plug* http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


yeah and it's $4500 for Stage I


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (DUB_4_LIFE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_4_LIFE* »_
yeah and it's $4500 for Stage I









The VFE kit isn't cogged and it doesn't cost $4500. So, what's the joke?


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I am still in, can you IM me or post the status of the whole situation for us? 
Thanks


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## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_
The VFE kit isn't cogged and it doesn't cost $4500. So, what's the joke?

umm....did you read the link posted. VF isn't going to develop a cogged setup, but they are creating a high boost kit which will start at $4500. Read the post and you would understand.


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (DUB_4_LIFE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_4_LIFE* »_
umm....did you read the link posted. VF isn't going to develop a cogged setup, but they are creating a high boost kit which will start at $4500. Read the post and you would understand.

I've already read the entire post and I understand the information provided. That $4500 isn't just for a new pulley system.


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## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_
I've already read the entire post and I understand the information provided. That $4500 isn't just for a new pulley system. 


did i say it was?


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (DUB_4_LIFE)*

Someone needs to make a kit to fit the V2 charger to the MKIV 12V. Then all you would need is to run a 2.5 pulley. withthe proper fueling it'll blow the doors off the VF kit. 
I don't like the V9, too small. It's only good for about 450hp and even then your pushing it hard. The V2 is good for 680hp. That's what they used for the 500HP R32. 
Now if I could just figure out how to make mine work without hacking too much metal off the car.....


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Someone needs to make a kit to fit the V2 charger to the MKIV 12V.

I was hoping to just focus on 1 thing at a time mainly the MK3 12V VR6's then branch off into the MK4 12V/24V and G60/Lysohlm crowd.
From this experience I will admit one thing,they are some unreliable mother ****ers out their.I went through a total of *7* machine shops before a prototype was made.Most people are full of talk until you hand them drawings and say "here,produce this" then they become full of ****.
I know exactly how all 25 of you feel because I have been in your shoes and I know what its like to wait for results.Look @ the bright side,at least I didnt ask for deposits








St.Panty's Day update...


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## vonfulk (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_From this experience I will admit one thing,they are some unreliable mother ****ers out their.I went through a total of *7* machine shops before a prototype was made.Most people are full of talk until you hand them drawings and say "here,produce this" then they become full of ****.

I've had the same exact experience with machine shops too, and I was only looking to get one pulley made for a setup I'm currently working on. Set me back weeks dealing with this crap


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## OhSnap (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (vonfulk)*

doesn't this concern any of you

_Quote, originally posted by *vf-engineering* »_We tested cogged systems for over 18 months to the tune of $50K. There were no legal or patent issues. In short, the belts do not last with our kind of driving. 
\


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## vdubfiend (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (OhSnap)*

still in.. crank, alternator and charger is all i need if that matters.
thanks


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (OhSnap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OhSnap* »_doesn't this concern any of you


For sure! I feel like info... is being restricted.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_For sure! I feel like info... is being restricted.
















...Its a timing belt,eventually its going to fail.Nothing lasts forever.When he says the belts did not last very long,I can only guess that the vehicles they were fitted on were tested for more than 50,000km's.
Would you like me to give an explanation as to why [email protected] VF-Engineerig went with a separate serpentine belt?I cant give you that answer because I am not Nik.
I can only read,observe then deduce this statement:
"why make 4 pulley's when I can make 1"


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I can only read,observe then deduce this statement:
"why make 4 pulley's when I can make 1"

Did Nik make the above comment/question? I must have missed it.


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## OhSnap (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

i think your missing the point vf spent 50k testing cogged belt set ups, how much testing have you done? and you are probably not an engineer, this whole project just looks like some people trying to make a quick buck by releasing a product that isn't proven yet. what if your belts only last 5k? you can only guess right?


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (OhSnap)*

I don't think that Nik is an Engineer either, but he does have at least one working for him. A bachelors degree in Mechanical Engineering doesn't automatically make one an expert in all areas of mechanics and design. If someone is patient, careful, does the required research and knows the right people then there is no reason why they couldn't achieve the same goals as someone with a formal education.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OhSnap* »_i think your missing the point vf spent 50k testing cogged belt set ups, how much testing have you done?
 
Thats whats occuring now. 

_Quote, originally posted by *OhSnap* »_
and you are probably not an engineer

Probably...









_Quote, originally posted by *OhSnap* »_
this whole project just looks like some people trying to make a quick buck by releasing a product that isn't proven yet. what if your belts only last 5k? you can only guess right? 

Quick buck?What concern is it of yours if I making a "quick buck"?Did you reach into your pocket and hand me the money to get the prototypes made or purchases of belts?Whether I sell them @ $1 or $1000 is my buisness,not yours.
On a more realistic point you dont have to support this venture,their are 25+ people that have enough faith to know what or who this set up will serve so If you dont like it then simply pipe up and buy VF-Engineering's kit. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
We are using a timing belt that is supposed to last on a engine for 150,000 km's.Common sense _usually_ over rides @ this point and tells you if a belt is made to last 150,000km's on an engine then what makes you think it wont last 5,000 , 25,000 or even 50,000km's on a supercharger?
You know what they say about empty vessels?

_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_If someone is patient, careful, does the required research and knows the right people then there is no reason why they couldn't achieve the same goals as someone with a formal education.


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## OhSnap (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *vf-engineering* »_yes, we used Contitech and even went as far as having teflon belts made.


the belts wont last 
read this thread may clear it up for you. 
why dont you go do some "engineering" 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2482513


_Modified by OhSnap at 9:22 PM 3-19-2006_


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## OhSnap (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

you guys just refuse to believe what others have already tried and tested. do you really think a company would spend 50k testing and developing a product and not continue with the design. its right in front of you. i don't care if you've been doing this for 20 years if your wrong your wrong. My flawed reasoning? im the one looking at all the facts. do you think you are the first to think of a cogged belt? no others thought about it, tested it and figured out its not a good idea for this application. and as much as you may hate it i have a right to voice my opinion.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (OhSnap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OhSnap* »_no others thought about it, tested it and figured out its not a good idea for this application.

Actually prior to Nik response there was only 1 other documented VR6 SC with cogged gears.

_Quote, originally posted by *OhSnap* »_and as much as you may hate it i have a right to voice my opinion.


I appreciate your opinions and concerns greatly but considering your not on the original list its as if your just in here to stir the pot which is certainly not welcomed.Like I said above I prefer to try this for myself and if it works others will benefit.If not oh well...
I dont recall you paypalling me any money so I dont see the need for you to be all ancy about this.You dont like what I am proposing then *GO WITH VF*.








Unless your interested in being part of the group then kindly keep your opinions to yourself.
Thanks


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Do you have any other pictures of that cogged VR6?


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (Feanor)*

You know, 90% of the high end Vortech Centrifugel Supercharger's I see here all run cogged gears. Granted it's not on a VW, but every kit that makes serious boost (18+ PSI) runs cogged. They do it for a reason. Thay are also using larger blowers that don't spin as fast. Although I belive even the Honda kits that run the V9, also use a cog drive.
I will admit its usually on a 'Vette or a Mustang, but if they do it on all the race applications, I don't understand why it wouldn't apply here. 
VF may have engineered one that works or doesn't. From what I have read and heard it worked flawlessly on thier R32 test car which also ran a V1 blower. They won't offer one to the public because its a liability. They don't want a bunch of kit owners complaining that it shreds belts (all cog drives trash belts, its a given) or that there blower blew up when they tried to make 20 psi. The major issue with the VF kits is the little V9 supercharger. It has to turn so much faster to make the same cfm as the V1's and V2's. PSI isn't the only factor here for power. CFM is where its at. Cog drive will work, it will just work better on a big blower, but it's still gonna shred belts. 
Cheers, Travis
Let me know when you finish them, I need one for my V2 kit I am piecing together.


_Modified by [email protected] at 9:21 AM 3-20-2006_


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Someone needs to make a kit to fit the V2 charger to the MKIV 12V. Then all you would need is to run a 2.5 pulley. withthe proper fueling it'll blow the doors off the VF kit. 
I don't like the V9, too small. It's only good for about 450hp and even then your pushing it hard. The V2 is good for 680hp. That's what they used for the 500HP R32. 
Now if I could just figure out how to make mine work without hacking too much metal off the car..... 

The V9 is capable of producing 575hp not 450hp. I like what you guys at TuningZubehor are about, but I don't like it the fact that you Travis won't get off the V9 as being inadequate rant. It getting old, so get off it! I really don't like being reminded of a mistake over and over again. Your right the V2 is probably the better choice, but you will never get your VR to see 680hp with a cogged setup.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (Feanor)*

Hey now, calm down there. I don't think the V9 is inadequate at all. It obviously gets the job done, but it has to work a bit harder to do it. 
I am just looking for something a bit different than most, and that extra 200cfm is where I think I will find it. 
I have the utmost repect for what VF is doing, its just not the direction I would like to go, but, as its becoming increasingly more apparent, I may go that route instead. I think I will have to cut too much off my MKIV to get the V2 to fit. 
But even if I did go with the V9 kit, I would want to cog drive it. It's just the garantee it will never slip. It's also going to make things way more consistant, I would think. 
Maybe I am too used to seeing all my buddies with the Mustangs and their cog drives. 
My original plan is to use the V2, all of C2 motorsports hardware, including the shortram, and get some custom programming. We'll see how it pans out. Maybe I won't, I dunno. 
Please don't think I am bashing the V9, that's not it. I just already have a V2, and I really like what C2 motorsports does with it on the MKIII's. I would like to apply it to my MKIV. 
Cheers, Travis


----------



## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

My boy has the cogged pulleys on his stang, i know its a whole other type of engine but they seem to work real good with his vortec charger. as much as he beats it he gets a good 40k out of 1 belt before he shreads every tooth on it (ps. he beats his car at the track all the time) so i am more that positive that these will do wonders for our cars.. im no engineer or mad scientist but i have some faith in this project and i sure hope it turns out to be a very good profit/invention for our VW's.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Let me know when you finish them, I need one for my V2 kit I am piecing together.

Do you know if there is any difference between the offset and components between the MK3 & MK4 12V VR6?


----------



## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

there is no difference....i have a mk4 longblock in my corrado....everything was the same...i can switch in different water pumps p/s pumps alternators etc and be fine....you can double check this by checking a part number for an mk4 p/s pump and mk3 and also the water pump....should be the same part numbers.....im 97% sure about this.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
also there is no reason for an mk4 to have a different offset....the factory would not redesign things that dont need it....im now 98.5 sure the offsets are the same...


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (hubbell)*

off sets are the same.


----------



## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

travis got the last 1.5% i was unsure of.....


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (hubbell)*

Is there any way to run a cog belt setup on a VFE VR6 supercharger kit? I have a VFE VR6 supercharger kit, I am a consumer, I don't want to open up a can of worms here, it's either yes, no or maybe.....


----------



## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: (hazw8st)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hazw8st* »_Is there any way to run a cog belt setup on a VFE VR6 supercharger kit? I have a VFE VR6 supercharger kit, I am a consumer, I don't want to open up a can of worms here, it's either yes, no or maybe.....

no.


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (DUB_4_LIFE)*

Thanks....


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (DUB_4_LIFE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_4_LIFE* »_
no.

WTF? Keep your pie hole shut Thomas.


_Modified by Feanor at 3:59 PM 3-21-2006_


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_WTF? Keep your pie hole shut Thomas.



Can I use a cog belt setup on a VFE VR6 V9 supercharger kit?


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (hazw8st)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hazw8st* »_
Can I use a cog belt setup on a VFE VR6 V9 supercharger kit?

I don't see why not, that's what this whole thread is about.


----------



## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_
WTF? Keep your pie hole shut Thomas.










calm yourself. if he read the thread plus the 10 page thread that it was referred to in the first post he could have easily gotten the answer.


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (DUB_4_LIFE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_4_LIFE* »_







calm yourself. if he read the thread plus the 10 page thread that it was referred to in the first post he could have easily gotten the answer. 

There is no need to lie to the guy, but I see you were just joking so no harm done.


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (hazw8st)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hazw8st* »_
Can I use a cog belt setup on a VFE VR6 V9 supercharger kit?

If everything works out, yes.


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (DUB_4_LIFE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_4_LIFE* »_







calm yourself. if he read the thread plus the 10 page thread that it was referred to in the first post he could have easily gotten the answer. 

I started that first thread smartie......


----------



## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: (hazw8st)*

I guess these guys seem to think cogged is not a good choice as well..LOL








http://www.reichardracing.com/torre_allen.php


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*

Freakin beautiful!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (hazw8st)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_off sets are the same.

Awesome
btw check your pm.

_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_I guess these guys seem to think cogged is not a good choice as well..LOL









Scott what did I tell you about feeding the trolls?








let people observe and then believe what they want to believe.Unless they have hardcore evidence to prove to me that cogged belts is a no go then they are simply wasting my time.
Whatever the case even if they were a failure do you think I am going to stop what I am doing now?








...Would you like some hot sauce with that?


Did anyone else notice the tensioner/water pump does not have any cogged teeth?


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

This thread is getting out of hand....
First off, anyone seriously persuing this type of option is not your average shady tree mechanic.... this is not for daily drivers, this is not for 99% of the people in these forums.... it is for those few who have exhausted every other attempt to get that extra HP out of our VWs.
Now seriously, how many VWs are out there with Vortech, Procharger, or Z-Engineering setups a few hundred? a few thousand maybe? I would be willing to bet not all that many in the grand scheme of things.... now of those cars out there with these chargers, how many have engines built to support the upper end of the boost scale... the 16-20 lbs that might be reached with a successful cogged belt setup... maybe 20%, (most people are lucky they dont blow up their engines from the start putting chargers on engines with 100k on them







).... so where does that even put us, in the market for 100-200 people that would even be potential buyers???
So I really guess there is potential to make alot of money here







if everyone that could possibly buy these did, you still would not be rich... if that is what he was after I am sure he would have made something more marketable like the $50 strut bar that every kid on the street will by.
I know there are alot of people exited about this, probably more that are conflicted about it.... but you have to step back and be realistic.
This is not a factory setup, it is not meant to be driven 15k-20k miles a year. Yes it would be great if you could and who knows maybe it is possible. But that is not what its intention is.
How many people with 400 hp+ cars never look under the hood and check hoses, and belts on a rutine basis







Thats like saying pilots waste their time with a pre-flight check of their airplanes.... Do you drive your car to the track, roll on the strip and go without every opening the hood somewhere along the line








Look at the applications that are pushing these numbers using cogged belts. Big block fords and chevys, now they already have the engine size advantage... but the weakness is still the belt... that is why most of them actually racing switch over to a 50mm wide belt to drive the charger or larger. 
Unfortunately there just is not room to fit a 2-3" wide cogged belt in our engine bays so we are limited to what we can use. And we have the secondary problem of not being able to even fit an independant belt on the crank to drive just the charger, as most setups do outside of the VW world. This is the biggest drawl back. Of couse the belt is going to be the weakest part of the setup it aways is, it is a wearing part and there is not much you can do about it
I guess that about ends my rant.... this isnt a get rich quick scheme, this isnt going to benifit alot of people.... if it does go through and work out it will be great for those that are in the market for this type of product and I am sure it will be put to good use. But no matter what happens you can't expect to bolt it on, hammer on your engine night and day and not wear out parts. 
Dont you think you are going to have to have your chargers rebuilt alot more frequently if you are pushing that kind of boost and spinning them that fast without slippage... I mean come on, if you cant afford those types of costs and the responcibilties of checking on the parts you know will wear out should you even be looking at this thread








Good luck on the continued struggles Wizard-of-OD.... waiting to see if you get close by the time my charged 20/20 engine is ready, for now I have the serp. setup figured out just incase http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 9:36 AM 3-22-2006_


_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 9:39 AM 3-22-2006_


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*









Cogged belt or not, belt slippage is still a major limitation to the VR6 s/c system, this just gives the VR6t a overall better advantage.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*

There's a whole other aspect that no one here seems to think about. 
This would work great for the standard kits as well. Once these are tested and shown to work, who's to say you can't make the charger pulley 3". So what if your only pushing 8-10lbs. Why not run a cog? 
Sure you may not need it. But belt slippage sucks. I can't stand the sound personally, and having your boost fall off at RPM isn't the way its supposed to work. And knowing that I would be able to switch it up to a smaller pulley for track days and more boost would be killer. 
Cog belts will shred, its a given if your spinning the crap out them. But I think it would be better for the low boost applications as well. 
Everyone has the idea that this is for racing only, and I say, Bull. These would be great all around , and I imagine once the R&D is done and they work, many different pulley sizes would be availiable. 
So what if I decide to run a 3.14 cogged pulley and make 6 psi, at least it will never, ever slip. 
My goal is to overbuild my kit, and down tune it. That way I know everything is as "bulletproof" as possible. 
Cheers, Travis


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*

Wow! That post was absolute garbage. What have you been smoking Joe?


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_Wow! That post was absolute garbage. What have you been smoking Joe?










To tool up a part like this costs quite a bit of money. It would be a financial blunder to not make this product apeal to everyone that owns a supercharged VR6. 
You would make more money by making 1,000 kits versus a couple hundred. All you would need to do is offer differnt pulley dim's, and you reach a whole other market, the guys who are completely happy with a stage 1 and want a cog drive to eliminate slip. 
Cheers, Travis 


_Modified by [email protected] at 3:43 PM 3-22-2006_


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Obviously you guys just like to hear yourself talk... or I suppose see how much useless content you can put up in one day or whatever your business may be....
Yes a cogged system would help everyone in theory... but there is truely no need at all for it if you are putting out 6-12 lbs of boost, slippage is not going to be that much of an issue at all at those levels.
The people that this WILL benifit are those trying to maximize their output to the highest level possible where slippage is a major issue. Those people running small pulleys and pushing their engines into high RPM ranges.... correct http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
_Feanor _ I guess you dont like to think about things logically then








Why was my post garbage....
1) All in all there are very few VWs running centrifugal chargers
2) Performance engines cannot be expected to run as maintaince free as stock engines do (does nascar run an engine more then one race without rebuilding it)
3) ALL belts wear out and the more stress you put on them the more you will need to check them
4) Yes it sucks we can just drop in a double belt crank pulley and run a 2" or 3" belt straight to the chager like the mustang guys do
5) Running chargers at high speeds in upper RPM ranges with cogged pullies will result in alot more stress on the charger as well as the belts... leading to more wear and more maintance needed (as to be expeced)
Maybe that is alittle more clear for you... That is what I was saying... see anything incorrect there


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*

No you are absolutely correct, it is going to create other issues. However with our market the way it is, and consumers just buying stuff because they can, why not cater the product to everyone? 
Why limit yourself to just one niche of customers, and not everyone? 
Plus, what if you by a stage one kit, but have plans to upgrade in the future? This would work for both. Yeah, you don't need it, but it sure looks cool, and doesn't hurt too much, your car is already under extra stress being supercharged. 
You need to think in a bigger scale. I have contacts to market this worldwide, and it would make a lot of sense to make it as affordable as possible for all supercharged VR's. That means selling as many kits/parts as possible. 
People that buy something like this, or modify cars to this extent should do thier research before hand, and know what they are buying. Sure 90% don't "need" it, but if they "want" it, your going to tell them no???? You should just inform them of the effects of such a part, good and bad, and let them make thier own decision. Provide as much customer support as possible, and hope that soon they will up the ante with more upgrades, hopefully purchased through the same supplier of said part in the first place.
I understand the need for it in a racing and competetive sense, but racing parts eventually trickle down to the masses, which in turn brings the prices down. 
I guess I am just thinking on a global scale, and ways to make it profitable for everyone involved. Sorry, if you don't agree, but that's just my opinion. 
I understand your position, I agree with you, I just think it could be bigger than that.
Cheers, Travis


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
How do you figure? To tool up a part like this costs quite a bit of money. It would be a financial blunder to not make this product apeal to everyone that owns a supercharged VR6. 
You would make more money by making 1,000 kits versus a couple hundred. All you would need to do is offer differnt pulley dim's, and you reach a whole other market, the guys who are completely happy with a stage 1 and want a cog drive to eliminate slip. 
Cheers, Travis 

Your right Travis. My comment wasn't directed toward you. Every bit of info Joe posted was bias in some way or just a repetition of something someone else said earlier.


----------



## oddy (Nov 26, 2003)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
Yes a cogged system would help everyone in theory... *but there is truely no need at all for it if you are putting out 6-12 lbs of boost, slippage is not going to be that much of an issue at all at those levels.*
..i'm pretty sure I was slipping putting down 8lbs.

1) *All in all there are very few VWs running centrifugal chargers*
.. I can remember walking up and down the rows at WF and can not even tell you how many SC vr's I saw, one after the other.


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_Obviously you guys just like to hear yourself talk... or I suppose see how much useless content you can put up in one day or whatever your business may be....
Yes a cogged system would help everyone in theory... but there is truely no need at all for it if you are putting out 6-12 lbs of boost, slippage is not going to be that much of an issue at all at those levels.
The people that this WILL benifit are those trying to maximize their output to the highest level possible where slippage is a major issue. Those people running small pulleys and pushing their engines into high RPM ranges.... correct http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
_Feanor _ I guess you dont like to think about things logically then








Why was my post garbage....
1) All in all there are very few VWs running centrifugal chargers
2) Performance engines cannot be expected to run as maintaince free as stock engines do (does nascar run an engine more then one race without rebuilding it)
3) ALL belts wear out and the more stress you put on them the more you will need to check them
4) Yes it sucks we can just drop in a double belt crank pulley and run a 2" or 3" belt straight to the chager like the mustang guys do
5) Running chargers at high speeds in upper RPM ranges with cogged pullies will result in alot more stress on the charger as well as the belts... leading to more wear and more maintance needed (as to be expeced)
Maybe that is alittle more clear for you... That is what I was saying... see anything incorrect there












Logically!? No matter what the upgrade, dumping money into a car is not logical. No one on the vortex is 'Logical' in that sense. Everything you said has been said before. A cogged system would give people another option, that's all! Options are a good thing for people that already have large sums invested and want to take it a little further.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (Feanor)*

So then most agree with my outlook on it, I thought everyone thought I was in left field. 
Thanks for the support, I guess that was just SmokinJoe644 who thought I was nuts. 
-Wizard, I got that e-mail. I will keep you posted.


----------



## nutbox11 (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* ([email protected])*

im interested.


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Just keep us posted.....


----------



## idg4ever (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* ([email protected])*

you better believe I'm in on this.. Let us know if and when the setup is available... This excites me.


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (idg4ever)*


_Quote, originally posted by *idg4ever* »_you better believe I'm in on this.. Let us know if and when the setup is available... This excites me.

X 2


----------



## Tr[email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (hazw8st)*

Working on it. I will keep everyone posted.


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]ehor* »_Working on it. I will keep everyone posted. 

We'll be eagerly waiting.


----------



## idg4ever (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* ([email protected])*

AWESOME.. keep us posted..


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (idg4ever)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Working on it. I will keep everyone posted. 

Now we will have 2 sets of results,maybe 3 of EuroMK3VR6 gets a set for testing....








That should keep alot of you nay sayers quiet for a while....
p.s. More added









_Quote, originally posted by *idg4ever* »_AWESOME.. keep us posted..

Always do...


----------



## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

any idea who much these gears will be sold for?
Will it be affordable or???


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (doobsta)*

I think earlier it was posted of around $600 a set retail. Remember it would include crank, alternator, and charger pulley. The power steering is driven by the backside? as well as the A/C. I still have to pull my car apart and measure some stuff. If a power steering is needed, I am pretty sure it will be easy to program with the file I already have. 
What's everyone's though about Underdriving the pulley's? I have heard it creates more load on the crank, and I have seen documented effects of them, what's everyone's opinion? 
Should we make these as close to stock diameter as possible or...


----------



## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

No underdriving for me please.


----------



## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

so for 600$ we would get 3 machined pulleys with grooves that could be used with a cooged belt?
This would mean more reliable power and no more belt slippage?


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (doobsta)*

Estimated $600. You need to check with Wizard-of-OD for final set pricing, I am just verifing fitment for the MKIV. 
It would include 3 pulleys to allow the use of a cog belt. This will eliminate slippage completely and make the vehicle more consistant. 
So no underdriving then. I thought it may not be the best idea. 
I am curious for opinions though.


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Estimated $600. You need to check with Wizard-of-OD for final set pricing, I am just verifing fitment for the MKIV. 
It would include 3 pulleys to allow the use of a cog belt. This will eliminate slippage completely and make the vehicle more consistant. 
So no underdriving then. I thought it may not be the best idea. 
I am curious for opinions though. 

Lets keep the crank and alternator pulleys the same as stock diameter.


_Modified by Feanor at 12:38 PM 3-31-2006_


----------



## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

whats the ETA on all this ?


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_
Lets keep the crank and alternator pulleys the same as stock diameter.

_Modified by Feanor at 12:38 PM 3-31-2006_

Yeah I think that's the best. 
ETA for a final set, all verified and running/working for the MKIV is mid June. 
I should have the prototypes cut by the end of April, and all fitment, and belt sizes cleared up by May. 
I will keep everyone posted. We are still gathering components and creating programming for the Charger set up. Right now we are still R&D'ing the bracket assemblies. It seems like it may be easier to just get them direct from C2. We also may have some clearance issues with the charger and the engine mount. 
The power steering will need to be re-located (obviously) so we are fabricating a spun aluminium reservoir. (we may just source this from Mooneyes) We would also like to go this route for the winshield washer reservoir as well, finding a place to put them is an issue. Battery re-location seems to be mandatory.


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

So what is your role in this project Travis? Will you be selling these kits through your company?


----------



## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

What is the ETA for the MKIII as it is only 4 pulleys two with belt guides. Should be VERY simple to get done?

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Yeah I think that's the best. 
ETA for a final set, all verified and running/working for the MKIV is mid June. 
I should have the prototypes cut by the end of April, and all fitment, and belt sizes cleared up by May. 
I will keep everyone posted. We are still gathering components and creating programming for the Charger set up. Right now we are still R&D'ing the bracket assemblies. It seems like it may be easier to just get them direct from C2. We also may have some clearance issues with the charger and the engine mount. 
The power steering will need to be re-located (obviously) so we are fabricating a spun aluminium reservoir. (we may just source this from Mooneyes) We would also like to go this route for the winshield washer reservoir as well, finding a place to put them is an issue. Battery re-location seems to be mandatory.


----------



## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_What is the ETA for the MKIII as it is only 4 pulleys two with belt guides. Should be VERY simple to get done?



thats what i want to know....
When is the Mk3 Stuff gonna be out?
and is the cost the same 600$?


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (Feanor)*

My roll is simple. I have the files to run the above parts on the mill. 
I am in the process of putting together a supercharger kit for the MKIV 12v's using the V2 Vortech supercharger and a cog drive based on what's here, air/air aftercooled, headgasket spacer and hopefully 300whp as a stage one. 
I am cutting these gears and modifing the design as need be to fit all MKIV 12v applications, not for just my prototype kit, but possibly for the V9 owners as well. 
Marketing will be handled the way the original provider of the Solidworks files wants it handled. I don't know if Tuning Zubehor will be marketing them, but I don't see why something couldn't work out.








I will keep everyone posted. My goal here is a reliable 280-300whp on a daily driver, with everything needed to support higher numbers as standard on stage one. Then the end user can custom tune thier ECU and reduce pulley size as he/she wishes for more power. 
I have sorted the fueling support for mid 300 hp, and am still in the works on the FMI and piping, which should be cake as one of my partners uncle owns Performance Turbo in Chatsworth, CA. 
The biggest obstacle with anything over the 300hp is fuel injectors. I still haven't been able to locate drop in 440cc injectors for the MKIV intake, but the limiting factor maybe the plastic extruded intake manifold. From what I have gathered, it will only sustain about 16psi. 360cc should flow ok for that psi ratings, anything higher I need 440cc, but the intake will most likely "pop". 
I just have to see what happens when I have it installed. I will update as I proceed.


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Are there any plans for a VF Corrado upgrade? or will one of the other kits work on this application?


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (Feanor)*

The MKIII Kit should be the same.


----------



## The Yoda (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

600 bucks for pulleys that allow the USE of a cogged belt? so this does not include a belt, how much is a belt?


----------



## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (The Yoda)*

come on, hurry up already....


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (The Yoda)*

Pretty sure the belts will be included, I am sourcing those as well.


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Pretty sure the belts will be included, I am sourcing those as well. 

I wouldn't bet on it. They are like $150.00 CDN as indicated by an earlier post.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (Feanor)*

What's the use of a pulley kit without a matching belt? We should at least provide the correct part number so the end user will be able to readily find one.


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_What's the use of a pulley kit without a matching belt? We should at least provide the correct part number so the end user will be able to readily find one. 

I think that if you buy the kit you should get one belt and the part #.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_
I think that if you buy the kit you should get one belt and the part #.


I agree with you. Plus $150 Canadian is like $10 US . LOL


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I agree with you. Plus $150 Canadian is like $10 US . LOL 

Not these days.


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (Feanor)*

don't feel like reading everything. i would be interested in these. and when would these be available? planning on putting it on a stage 2 or 3 suprecharged mk4 jetta vr6.


_Modified by 2k1 vr6 at 10:50 AM 4-1-2006_


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_Lets keep the crank and alternator pulleys the same as stock diameter.

This is what I did.I kept the Alternator,Crank & PS Pulley's as close to stock as possible (maybe off by 1 or 2mm in the circumference if so much).The only changing variable was the SC pulley diameter.The test SC pulley was 2.71" (27T) as this was determined to be the average size pulley.

_Quote, originally posted by *doobsta* »_and is the cost the same 600$?

Cost is going to be dependant on how many people are in and what belts we use.I will not distribute a half assed kit.In other words I like to use Contitech belts (Made in Germany) so if a 192T belt cost $150+ then expect to pay for it or source your own belt...







.I would like to offer the kits @ $600US but we wont know cost until mass production starts.Remember prototypes/1-Off's are not cheap...

_Quote, originally posted by *hubbell* »_come on, hurry up already....









Let the guys enjoy his prototype first mang.

_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_and when would these be available?

They will be available when the guy who is testing them gives his input which should be soon.


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

If Canadians can participate in the group purchase and your making a kit for my set-up, then put me on the list.


_Modified by Feanor at 2:31 PM 4-1-2006_


----------



## wallra (Jun 14, 2003)

*Re: (Feanor)*

the vortech sight has different size cog pullies for the charger.
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/


----------



## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (wallra)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wallra* »_the vortech sight has different size cog pullies for the charger.
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/

I dont see any cog pulleys there being close tot he right size for the application needed.
Provide links or data if you have it


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (doobsta)*

Ok, we ran into a small issue over the weekend for the MK IV's. The serpentine belt is dual sided, and the A/C compressor which runs off the backside of the belt is ribbed. 
I am in the process of creating a flat non ribbed A/C pulley. I don't think any of the US MKIV's had an option for non - A/C. I am pretty sure they are all standard with A/C and the 12V VR. Eliminate the A/C isn't an option with the way the belt's run. 
Everything else seems to be a go, other than the power steering pulley. But I think Boost Factory may have us covered. 
I will keep everyone posted. 
Cheers, Travis


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


----------



## oddy (Nov 26, 2003)

*Re: (hazw8st)*

for alll you haters.. we're working like crazy with someone who's actually making progress and trying to get these on a car ASAP.



_Modified by oddy at 12:17 AM 4-8-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (oddy)*

Look for oddy's car @ this weekend's *Show-N-Go*.The pulley's should be on display along side this...
















Where the professional photographers @?I want you guys to be on this like white on rice.


----------



## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_ 
I am in the process of creating a flat non ribbed A/C pulley. I don't think any of the US MKIV's had an option for non - A/C. I am pretty sure they are all standard with A/C and the 12V VR. Eliminate the A/C isn't an option with the way the belt's run. 



You can delete the A/C, the belt is ~58" w/dual idler,2.5" pulley.


----------



## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Look for oddy's car @ this weekend's *Show-N-Go*.The pulley's should be on display .

post a picture of his car so we know what to look for i'll be at the show. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (mikebobelak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mikebobelak* »_
You can delete the A/C, the belt is ~58" w/dual idler,2.5" pulley.

Why would I want to do that? My A/C is super cold. I like it.


----------



## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Where the professional photographers @?I want you guys to be on this like white on rice.

Im not going to be able to make it but i will send my brother over so he can snap some pics http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Are they going to be on the car or just on display? Looking good by the way


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

People have been machining off the grooves on AC pulleys and running one sided belts for YEARS now.  Thats standard procedure for AMS/Eurotech charger kits.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (leebro61)*

I know that, the above person was talking about deleting the A/C. 
Also I was talking about a MKIV, not a MKIII. AMS kits don't apply to what I am doing. 
Wizard, you planning on anodizing them for strength?


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I know that, the above person was talking about deleting the A/C. 
Also I was talking about a MKIV, not a MKIII. AMS kits don't apply to what I am doing. 


A mk4 longblock and mk3 longblock is exactly the same in regards to the pullies no? Why would it be any different. Anyway, there is a machined AC pulley for sale in the FI classifieds, price seems kinda steep though.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Wizard, you planning on anodizing them for strength? 

More than likely they will be anodised black unless there is a demand for :
* blue
* red
* pink


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_
A mk4 longblock and mk3 longblock is exactly the same in regards to the pullies no? Why would it be any different. Anyway, there is a machined AC pulley for sale in the FI classifieds, price seems kinda steep though.









I thought they were a bit different. I will have a set of MKIII pulleys next week to compare. 
I would like to be able to offer complete pulley kits. Crank, Power Steering, A/C, Alternator, Supercharger, Idler, and whatever else is needed. That way you would just bolt them on, run the cog belt and go. 
It would also equal less rotating mass, as they are all aluminium. 
I know I am gonna get flamed for this, but why not offer a non, supercharged cog drive for all consumers out there? Everyone could run a cog-setup, they wouldn't even need to be supercharged.








It would be a lightweight pulley set up. You know the target customer I am talking about, too.


----------



## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (oddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oddy* »_for alll you haters.. we're working like crazy with someone who's actually making progress and trying to get these on a car ASAP.


Hey, I resemble that remark







Those pulley's look very nice. Just make sure nobody is standing near the open hood of the car when you fire it up with those pulley's on. Just for safety sake


----------



## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

those cog pulleys look sweet, good work guys!
Dunno if i Will get ****e for this but, I found this in the FI forum.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2520373

It seems he is making them for 75$, of course this is only the SC pulley.
Anyone know anything about this


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (doobsta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_Just make sure nobody is standing near the open hood of the car when you fire it up with those pulley's on. Just for safety sake









As always Patrick, I appreciate the constuctive criticism.

_Quote, originally posted by *doobsta* »_of course this is only the SC pulley.

Ye I saw that thread ,tell him to watch out as the moderators/administrators will soon ban him and make that thread disappear.
Serpentine pulley's are not really an issue to fabricate,any machine shop will not turn down the chance to make a serpentine pulley.What makes cogged pulley's much more expensive is the time and tools required to cut the teeth.


----------



## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

well if theyre on a car already lets get them to us asap....its cool to see someone elses car with them on but i want to see them on my car....


----------



## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
As always Patrick, I appreciate the constuctive criticism.

No problemo.


_Quote »_Ye I saw that thread ,tell him to watch out as the moderators/administrators will soon ban him and make that thread disappear.

and why would that be?


----------



## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
and why would that be?


without banner or classified's advertiser status you can't sell products that you are producing. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif they won't ban him though, they will black hole his thread and warn him not to sell without an advertiser account. 


_Modified by DUB_4_LIFE at 9:39 AM 4-7-2006_


----------



## LSinLV (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
No problemo.

and why would that be?



Cocky are we Patrick????


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (LSinLV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LSinLV* »_

Cocky are we Patrick????
















With a user-name like Jettset why would you expect other wise.


----------



## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (LSinLV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LSinLV* »_

Cocky are we Patrick????
















Ohhhhhhhh look everybody, it's the big bad MODERATOR!!!!
What you goin do mod boy, bannish me
















Hey Larry, just breaking you in right brother


----------



## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_
With a user-name like Jettset why would you expect other wise.









Feanor, how did you get back to the keyboard. I thought you were sent to the rubber room and forced to wear the nice white backwards jacket.


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Feanor, how did you get back to the keyboard. I thought you were sent to the rubber room and forced to wear the nice white backwards jacket.









I got out.


----------



## LSinLV (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (JETTSET)*

let's keep this on topic kiddies.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## xanthus (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_A mk4 longblock and mk3 longblock is exactly the same in regards to the pullies no? Why would it be any different. Anyway, there is a machined AC pulley for sale in the FI classifieds, price seems kinda steep though.









Get one machined, you'll understand the price.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2542307
If anyone is wondering; I paid 70 to get it machined, and 40 for the pulley. Straight up no joke.
The fellow that machined it said he had alot of trouble getting it done because it's made out of two different metals, and the inside ribs of the pulley are not concentric. In other words, it was some what "lopsided" from the factory, which he fixed so it spins true.


----------



## AzradoVr666 (Apr 3, 2006)

*Re: (xanthus)*

soo....when are we gonna see these actually being tested? its been alot of cad pictures and talk....if your assuming these are gonna work with all the accsories trouble free...your smoking crack...soo instead of taptap tapping on the keyboard...get them on a car see what happens i wanna see this work


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (xanthus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xanthus* »_Get one machined, you'll understand the price.
.

Something is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. You may have $110 into it, but that doesn't change that fact that it is a used part. Expecting to get ~90% of what you have into a used car part is a bit unrealistic, even considering the legwork you put in to getting it done (and would put into getting it shipped).
I'm just going off of what I had seen them going for in the past. 3 minutes of searching turned up these results. The other threads I remember seeing, that I didn't find via search, were all in the $50 or so range.
- $25 plus exchange
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=117299 
- $40 shipped
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2332221 

Thats the end of my off topicness. Continue on http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by leebro61 at 11:36 PM 4-7-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (LSinLV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hubbell* »_well if theyre on a car already lets get them to us asap....its cool to see someone elses car with them on but i want to see them on my car....

I dont know if Oddy will be able to get them on the car in time for show N go tomorrow.Having some issues that I am trying to deal with...if it means cutting another set up then oh well.
I thought we clarified this in the previous topic but are you dual idler users sure your using an ~60.5" length belt?


----------



## xanthus (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_I'm just going off of what I had seen them going for in the past. 3 minutes of searching turned up these results. The other threads I remember seeing, that I didn't find via search, were all in the $50 or so range.
- $25 plus exchange
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=117299 
- $40 shipped
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2332221 

Thats the end of my off topicness. Continue on http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by leebro61 at 11:36 PM 4-7-2006_

It's a good thing there is such a high frequency of them; being that the youngest post is over a year old. The oldest in 2K1.. but why bother taking that into consideration. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
I got 90% of the value back out of most of the parts I have sold on here so far, it cost me nothing to bump it.







It's not unrealistic at all.


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I thought we clarified this in the previous topic but are you dual idler users sure your using an ~60.5" length belt?


If anyone cant give this information or go measure, it will help the process and save some time.


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (xanthus)*

I said I thought your price was a bit steep. I gave some quick examples of what I had remembered them selling for in the past, which was the basis of my 'a bit steep' comment. Put the rolleyes away, it's not a big deal. No need to overanalyze anything. If you feel the need to justify yourself to me, you can PM me if you really need to. This isn't what this thread is about


----------



## xanthus (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (leebro61)*

Your right, you should not have made mention of it in the first place, because that's not what this thread is about. 
I analize everything that deals with me, because that's the way I am, maybe you should have put away the







I'm not justifying the price of the item to you, as this is a public forum, and I want everyone to understand. Which is also why I'm not IM'ing you either.
Saddly, this thread will be locked once the other haters start bashing on topic again, just as the previous thread was locked. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Modified by xanthus at 12:56 PM 4-8-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (xanthus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xanthus* »_just as the previous thread was locked. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif

I had the previous thread locked in order to make this one.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

So what's up with the "pitch" issue? What are you going to try first? 
I have an engine out of a car, lined up for us to make a mock up tomorrow. I also have a complete set of stock pulleys coming in next week. 
So big question now is, underdrive or as close to stock as possible? 
Cheers, Travis


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Keep us posted.....


----------



## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

So did any one get to see these pulleys at show N go? i want to see some pics please


----------



## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: (KIEZERJOSE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KIEZERJOSE* »_So did any one get to see these pulleys at show N go? i want to see some pics please









i didn't see em. although i can't say i was looking very hard.


----------



## HiImSHTTY (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* ([email protected])*

so i never really post on here, but i am into VWs/Audis. i dont own any vr6 vehicles and have no experience with them, but i am a student machinist. a dude at school approached me about making cogged supercharger pulleys for a vr6...and i made em. he hasnt picked up the last 2, so i took a pic of them:
















these are the crank and ps ones. i already gave him the supercharger and alternator ones. i cranked out these 2 in one saturday. i assume his goal is to mass produce and sell these things as there seems to be quite a demand. they werent that hard to make, all you need is mastercam, a cnc mill, and a wire EDM machine. i'm not as interested in modding out cars, as i am restoring classic ones, but this seemed like a neat project. what do you guys think?


----------



## yellerrado (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (HiImSHTTY)*

i think zach is the ****... this boy is bad ass right here on a wire edm.. the master of splines and **** like that







i watched him go through the process of makin this stuff and they are really nice..


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

him, you better put a lip on the sides of those or the belts will slide off. the way the stock belt tensioner is it will not put the force needed.
how wide are those?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (yellerrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yellerrado* »_this boy is bad ass right here on a wire edm..

You could say that again.Awesome work Zach http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## pgoutsos (Dec 1, 2001)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (Wizard-of-OD)*

Not sure if you got an answer on the belt length or not, but 60.5, or 61 is used on the c2 kits with dual idlers I believe.


----------



## HiImSHTTY (Jan 31, 2005)

when i searched yahoo for "cogged vr6 supercharger" this is whta i got...and it ends up that this is what i'm making them for. wizard is the end recipient of my work. i should have a complete functional prototype set done pretty soon. there was some last minute changes in the drawings. as far as manufacturing projects go...if anyone on here has other neat things i can try to make..send ideas my way. as a manufacturing engineer, i like trying to make stuff that i've never made before...especially if vws are somehow involved.


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (HiImSHTTY)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## oddy (Nov 26, 2003)

*Re: *Cogged Gears for VR6 Supercharged Systems* (HiImSHTTY)*

me, wizard, zach and a reputable shop are on the task.. and the pitch issues were why you didnt get to see a set on sunday at show n go.


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

One problem i may see is that there are too many people on the task and not working together. 
why should one shop make a set and not get paid cuz they went with another shops design/set ? 
i highly doubt that they are going to pay each shop money for the R&D, Materials, Time, And the final product.


----------



## HiImSHTTY (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

i'm fairly confused at what you are getting at here. what's this about money, R&D, material, time and final products? i think you may be confused about what is going on.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_One problem i may see is that there are too many people on the task and not working together. 
why should one shop make a set and not get paid cuz they went with another shops design/set ? 
i highly doubt that they are going to pay each shop money for the R&D, Materials, Time, And the final product.









what are you talking about?


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Are there any plans to add an outer lip onto some of the pulleys? 
Either directly in the milling, or after the fact as a seperate piece like the G-werks or VWMS ones?
I would assume it would be best to have it on atleast the crank and supercharger pulleys, it is probably not needed on all of them, but should be in place somewhere to keep the belt inline.
Just curious http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Looks good so far


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

im saying, if you have 4 shops working on these parts, your going to pay all 4 for the work done? even when your only going to one of them for the finished product?


----------



## yellerrado (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_im saying, if you have 4 shops working on these parts, your going to pay all 4 for the work done? even when your only going to one of them for the finished product?

i dont think its 4 shops in total.. i know those were made in the shop that im around which is just a machine shop. as far as the lip thing going. those that were made there couldnt be made with a lip because they were cut on a wire edm. if you machined a flange on it then cut it on the edm bye bye flange. if anything you can add it on afterwards by welding or a few flat head screws on a little plate to make it clean


_Modified by yellerrado at 10:26 AM 4-12-2006_


----------



## HiImSHTTY (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

since when were 4 shops involved?


----------



## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

how much more time?


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (doobsta)*

The lip will be on the pulleys that run off the backside of the belt, hence they don't need to be cogged. This should be enough to keep the belt inline. 
If we find out in testing here that those edges are insufficent, we will look into taping the crank pulley to add a steel backing plate. 
Hopefully it isn't needed. 
Cheers, Travis


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_im saying, if you have 4 shops working on these parts, your going to pay all 4 for the work done? even when your only going to one of them for the finished product?

Who cares what I pay?Zach was the guy who made the prototypes not the actual production pieces.I allready have a shop lined up for production.
Now onto the subject of lips.We have 2 options and will go with whichever is cheapest:
* cut the pulley's with the EMD and then weld a lip onto the face
* cut the pulley's with the teeth and lip in one go.


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
* cut the pulley's with the EMD and then weld a lip onto the face
* cut the pulley's with the teeth and lip in one go.

* cut the pulley's with the EMD and then weld a lip onto the face http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
* cut the pulley's with the teeth and lip in one go. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## HiImSHTTY (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: (Feanor)*

it would be impossible to cut a lip and the teeth in one go if i use a wire edm machine to do the teeth...which is by far the fastest and easiest way to do it. if you wanted it done in one go, i'd need to mill the teeth out with a very small endmill. this would be very time consuming compared to the EDM, and when they go into production it would increase the cost of the finished product by 10 fold. i could make a lip that would attach to the pulley by capscrews countersunk into the ring. if you guys wanna see what this would look like, tell me what pulleys would need the lip, and would it need to be on the front or back...or both. in theory, only one pulley would need the lip on both sides to keep the belt aligned, though if it went on two of them, it would be even more bulletproof. i would have to advise heavily against welding them, as when you weld aluminum it tends to warp. even slightly warped pulleys would fit into the "bad things" category. if a lip is necessary, make a decision on where it needs to be, and i'll make it look pretty. as for the speed it takes to make these things, you have three attributes you can choose from. fast, accurate, and attractive. you can pick 2 of the three. in other words, accurate work that looks good takes time to produce. i would rather take some time and make these things right and have the result be kickass, then make them fast and have the result be half-assed...especially when you folks are gonna spend a nice chunk of change on them.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

it is a more common practice, from what I've seen, to either fasten the flange with endcap screws, or press-fit onto the pulley itself.


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## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

well thats all you had to say, it was jsut a question cuz i know you kept on asking me about my dads shop. If you had it all setup then i dont know why you were asking if he can redraw those (b/c of pitch erro) and make a set. Well noone really knows what happened to understand. buts its all good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
And my suggestion would be cut the pulleys with the lip.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (majic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *majic* »_it is a more common practice, from what I've seen, to either fasten the flange with endcap screws, or press-fit onto the pulley itself.

Common practice to who?
VW Motorsports with there vast amount of resources of financial backing welded metal rims to gears cut via EMD machines.


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## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Nice...


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## idg4ever (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (hazw8st)*

sounds good so far.. keep us posted!


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## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

Could have a ton of those rings laser cut


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

I would tend to think a cap screw would back out at those rotaional speeds. 
If VW Motorsport welded it on, I don't see why we wouldn't. 
What about putting the lip on one side for one pulley and on the other side for another pulley? 
This would make the CNC process a touch easier to cut the lip on the mill.


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## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

idk that makes me think that the belt would still be able to walk on certain pulleys... assume it would affect belt wear too? idk


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

Good point.
Do you think one pulley with a lip on both sides would be sufficent? 
If it needed to be welded on though, I wouldn't want it on the crank pulley. The crank pulley needs to be perfectly balanced, if it isn't, it will transfer that wobble into the engine internals. 
Kinda like running on an out of balance wheel and tire. Definetely not good for bearings.


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## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

i know all about that stuff, i mean your already getting rid of the harmonic balancer anyways. one of the downsides everyone says with the underdrive pulleys.
I would put it on prolly the water pump.
Like i said could have those rings laser cut.


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

I'll get you some dims. That would be best as the waterpump pulley isn't cogged.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_one of the downsides everyone says with the underdrive pulleys.

None of the pulley's are underdrive though.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
None of the pulley's are underdrive though.









It's not so much that it's underdriven that is the downside to the underdrive pullies... it's the fact that it lacks the pressed on ring weight, like on the stock crank pulley. It adds a flywheel effect for harmonic dampening. 
About the press fit -- Gates stock pullies come equiped with press fit flanges... also talking to other industry leaders for big block gear (ams motorsports), they do a press fit on their flanged cogged pullies. But those tach welds look sufficient... I think the comment about warping was in reference to a total weld all the way around the circumference of the pulley


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## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

thanks for clearing that up majic.
He said what i would have said, i was just using it as an example cuz these pulleys would not have the balancer as stock pulleys have, just like underdrive pulleys dont have them.

That is one of the reasons some people say stay away from underdrive is that there is no balancer, some will arguye to the end of the day its horrible, others would say that it has little if no effect.


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

1000


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Seems like I remember talking to someone about it... they said it probably wouldn't affect the crank bearings too very much. That thing can't add THAT much inertial load to the pulley right?


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## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

exactly, which is wghy i mentioned the fact that some people will take it to the grave that its horrible to get rid of, and tohers will argue to no end that it doesnt effect it at all. 
Its all opinions.
But enough about that back to the cogged gears. my suggestion would be to put the rings on the water pump if there is enough room, hopefully jst doing that one pulley will keep the bet in line (im sure it will)


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Common practice to who?
VW Motorsports with there vast amount of resources of financial backing welded metal rims to gears cut via EMD machines.









I really don't like the idea of tack welding rings onto the pulleys. Don't you think the welds might throw off the balance of the pulley? Pressing rings on sound like a good idea or machining the pulleys with rings built in.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_
I really don't like the idea of tack welding rings onto the pulleys. Don't you think the welds might throw off the balance of the pulley?

VWMS ran this set up in there WRC Rallye.Now I dont know about there budget but this idea worked for them.

_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_Pressing rings on sound like a good idea or machining the pulleys with rings built in.

Well will go with the most economical and structurally sound solution.I wasnt disagreeing with anyones ideas but getting pulley's that have the rings allready machined into them will seriously drive the cost up.I can do it but who is going to pay for it?I assure you that 99% of the people on the page 1 list will not even spit @ me if I sold this kit for $1500US....


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
VWMS ran this set up in there WRC Rallye.Now I dont know about there budget but this idea worked for them.
I assure you that 99% of the people on the page 1 list will not even spit @ me if I sold this kit for $1500US....


Racing teams have budgets larger that the combined income of everyone involved in this gig. How often do you think they fully rebuild their engines? After every race? Their cars are not daily drivers, so they can get away with a cheaper pulley. What do you think will happen if you use a unbalanced pulley on your car for 40k miles?
I'll bet that you will loose more that half of all those people if you were to charge $1500 for a set of pulleys.
I would sooner pay a little more for something done to the same standards as a oem pulley. If you plan to market these pulleys as kits make sure they are damn good. Cutting corners is going to cost you more in the long run.
This is my pov as a consumer and a professional. Its not a personal attack on what you are trying to do.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_Its not a personal attack on what you are trying to do.

Well it sure seems that way.Every post you make is downstream of something negative.Do you think for one minute that I planned this all over a coffee break?








Whether the pulley's are cut on the EMD and then a lip welded/press fitted/glued/hammered on or machined in an all-in-one shot,they are still going to perform and function the same.If I save the guys $600US in the process,I will do so.That is not cutting corner,thats providing the most economical solution.
....its just a lip,not a neon flux capacitor.Cut me some slack.
Thanks.


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: (Feanor)*

When do you ever have any thing positive to say?

_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_
Racing teams have budgets larger that the combined income of everyone involved in this gig. How often do you think they fully rebuild their engines? After every race? Their cars are not daily drivers, so they can get away with a cheaper pulley. What do you think will happen if you use a unbalanced pulley on your car for 40k miles?
I'll bet that you will loose more that half of all those people if you were to charge $1500 for a set of pulleys.
I would sooner pay a little more for something done to the same standards as a oem pulley. If you plan to market these pulleys as kits make sure they are damn good. Cutting corners is going to cost you more in the long run.
This is my pov as a consumer and a professional. Its not a personal attack on what you are trying to do.


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Well it sure seems that way.Every post you make is downstream of something negative.Do you think for one minute that I planned this all over a coffee break?










_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_ 
don't think that Nik is an Engineer either, but he does have at least one working for him. A bachelors degree in Mechanical Engineering doesn't automatically make one an expert in all areas of mechanics and design. If someone is patient, careful, does the required research and knows the right people then there is no reason why they couldn't achieve the same goals as someone with a formal education. 

I can see why you would think that, but that's not the case. I'm very realistic and I always look for the weak links. If I wasn't interested in purchasing the kit, I wouldn't say anything.

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Whether the pulley's are cut on the EMD and then a lip welded/press fitted/glued/hammered on or machined in an all-in-one shot,they are still going to perform and function the same.If I save the guys $600US in the process,I will do so.That is not cutting corner,thats providing the most economical solution.
....its just a lip,not a neon flux capacitor.Cut me some slack.
Thanks.

It will make a difference.


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_When do you ever have any thing positive to say?


Sorry Scott, I meant no disrespect. It's not in my nature to be (+)ve. I'm just trying to keep it real around here.


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (Feanor)*

What about machining the crank pulley out of steel, and pressing on the harmonic? This would give back the lip need as well. 
This would eliminate all issues that arise with the lightweight pulleys. Then cut the rest out of aluminium? Cog drives are proven to create extra load/stress on crank bearings, maybe replacing the Harmonic would help eliminate this. 
Just a thought, and it takes care of the lip idea as well.








Adding a lip to both sides of the waterpump pulley would be easy as it needs to be flat, no teeth. 
I'll see what my engineer thinks, and get back to ya, however he's out of town until the 24th.
Cheers, Travis


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_What about machining the crank pulley out of steel, and pressing on the harmonic? This would give back the lip need as well. 
This would eliminate all issues that arise with the lightweight pulleys. Then cut the rest out of aluminium? Cog drives are proven to create extra load/stress on crank bearings, maybe replacing the Harmonic would help eliminate this. 
Just a thought, and it takes care of the lip idea as well.








Adding a lip to both sides of the waterpump pulley would be easy as it needs to be flat, no teeth. 
I'll see what my engineer thinks, and get back to ya, however he's out of town until the 24th.
Cheers, Travis 

I like you idea Travis. I don't know if its feasible, but I still like it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_
I like you idea Travis. I don't know if its feasible, but I still like it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

My thoughts exactly, would be awesome if it can be done, jsut might take a little more planning.


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

Actually if it can be done, it would make the machining process really simple. Just cut the cog out'a steel, heat up the harmonic part really hot, and slide it back together. Then drop the thing in cold water and it should be exactly like stock, and never slip a belt. Then just re-balance it. Of course it would be better to balance it with the entire rotating assembly.








I'll screw with a spare this weekend and see if I can split them without damaging the rubber.


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## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: (hazw8st)*

I would rather see less talk on making changes and more on just having them done. Harmonic schmonic. It is NOT needed on the VR6, make it simple, make it in a price range I can handle. As long as the belts stay put I will be happy.


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Actually if it can be done, it would make the machining process really simple. Just cut the cog out'a steel, heat up the harmonic part really hot, and slide it back together. Then drop the thing in cold water and it should be exactly like stock, and never slip a belt. Then just re-balance it. Of course it would be better to balance it with the entire rotating assembly.








I'll screw with a spare this weekend and see if I can split them without damaging the rubber. 


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_I would rather see less talk on making changes and more on just having them done. Harmonic schmonic. It is NOT needed on the VR6, make it simple, make it in a price range I can handle. As long as the belts stay put I will be happy.

Thanks Scott
I dont know why these guys dont just go off and make there own set to there specifications.


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## slammedvwgolf (Feb 16, 2004)

so when will these be ready?


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## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

As soon as they can, problem with most people here is they dont know what goes into machining parts and fabricating stuff. its not like i (or anyone else) just turns on the machine and pushes a little green button that says go go machine and its done.


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Thanks Scott
I dont know why these guys dont just go off and make there own set to there specifications.









Good luck!


_Modified by Feanor at 6:27 PM 4-14-2006_


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## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

It would require a major redesign of the crank pulley but you could also look at something similar to the G60 pulley which has a seperate dampener unit that sits inside of the pulley. Not that it needs to be the same exact thing or use the G60 part but it could be used for inspiration...... just another idea to put out there


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## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (slammedvwgolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slammedvwgolf* »_so when will these be ready?

X 2 ...


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## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_As soon as they can

*x2*


_Modified by EternalXresT at 11:48 AM 4-15-2006_


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## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

Keep us posted.


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## HiImSHTTY (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

alright...i figured i better comment here cuz i'm the one actually making the prototypes and i'm the one with 1 semester less than a manufacturing engineering degree. here's what i have to say about everything that's been suggested:
anything that involves heat, including welding, and heating up a sprocket fitting a ring on, and then cooling it so they are fixed together is a bad idea. welding aluminum is a pain in the ass, you risk warping the aluminum, and when these get mass produced for all u guys, you add a whole nother dimentsion to the manufacturing process, as 2 parts must be made, then moved to another department, and welded. this adds $$$ to the project in a big way.
i feel that a steel crank pulley would be a step sideways, as it'd be cheaper to buy material, but the extra time involved in machining it would put you right back up to or further than the original cost. i'd stick with the 6061 cuz it machines fast, and its relatively inexpensive. total cnc time, including EDM for the aluminum crank pulley was about 1.5 hours.
machining the lip into the pulley is out of the question, so stop suggesting it. it would eliminate EDM as a way to cut the teeth, you'd have to do a horizontal mill, or a vertical with a 4th axis., or a vertical with a long, tiny endmill. this translates to a few things. tons of time, and very, very expensive. if you guys wanted to spend a grand on a set of these things, then it would be possible. i dont have the time to set up a 4th axis and do these prototypes when i'm doing this basically for free. having done 4axis work in the past, i'm telling you out of experience that it is a bad idea.
now...my opinion on what the easiest, fastest, and best looking option is. i really think a ring should be machined out of a round billet, parted off, and holes should be drilled in it. it would be attached to the side of the pulley by cap screws. the kind that are shaped like a countersink, so the face of the screw would be flush with the face of the ring. it'll look really nice, it'll be easy to make, and it wont add much to the end cost of the project..which is an important concern.
i will continue to put thought into this, and try to come up with a better way. but as of yet thats my best idea...best idea that is feasible. you guys need to tell me where you want these lips...what sides of what pulleys...so i can make em and take a pic to show you what they look like. if it turns out that this doesnt work the way i think, or it looks like **** for some reason. i think the next best idea is the long endmill to machine the teeth on a vertical mill. this endmill should be solid carbide and will need to be special ordered. it will cost about 100 bux just for the tool, i estimate.
on a different note, my fox died. anyone wanna buy a fox minus transmission. its a 91 1.8L digifant. the engine as about 130,000 on it and runs like a champion. the transmission is in the trunk of the car, as i ripped it out last night and it is infact broken. body is in mediocre to bad shape, interior is mediocre. everything works. even the air blows cold. new alternator, new water pump and timing belt. new front strut bearings, and new rear shocks. i may be willing to part it out, but i'd like to get rid of the whole thing. it's in pittsburgh, PA. email me, pm me, or call me at 724-448-3443 if interested in any part of it. it's a good car...it's just having trouble expressing it right now


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## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

*Re: (HiImSHTTY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HiImSHTTY* »_
now...my opinion on what the easiest, fastest, and best looking option is. i really think a ring should be machined out of a round billet, parted off, and holes should be drilled in it. it would be attached to the side of the pulley by cap screws. the kind that are shaped like a countersink, so the face of the screw would be flush with the face of the ring. it'll look really nice, it'll be easy to make, and it wont add much to the end cost of the project..which is an important concern.

I do this stuff at my dads shop all the time, very easy, and quick. I'd say throw a little lock tight on there on the assembly, also if you do 4 screws one every 90degress it wouldnt mess the balance up. they would all equal each other out.


_Quote, originally posted by *HiImSHTTY* »_you guys need to tell me where you want these lips...what sides of what pulleys...so i can make em and take a pic to show you what they look like. .

Best idea would to have a lip on both sides of the water pump pulley.


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## HiImSHTTY (Jan 31, 2005)

i didnt know i was making a water pump pulley. i was under the impression i was making 4: PS, SC, ALT, and Crank. where does the WP fit into this?


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: (HiImSHTTY)*

It does not as it is flat already..

_Quote, originally posted by *HiImSHTTY* »_i didnt know i was making a water pump pulley. i was under the impression i was making 4: PS, SC, ALT, and Crank. where does the WP fit into this?


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (HiImSHTTY)*

Aluminium is an issue on the crank Pulley. It creates an unacceptable load on the main bearings. It needs to remain as close to stock weight as possible, and maintain the Harmonic. With the added stress of the cog drive, and without the harmonic, you'll have spun or dead bearings in under 20K miles. 
Everything else can remain aluminium. The easiest way around the lip fiasco, is to create a waterpump pulley that has lip on both sides. Since it doesn't need to be cogged, it makes it a relatively easy process to cut.
After examination of a stock crank pulley it appears the actual belt surface is pressed onto a center hub. This makes re-using the stock harmonic impossible as it is part of the belt surface.
Now I know why VF isn't offering a cog kit. It seems to be impractical, but I know there is a way we can make it work. Time will tell. 
Cheers, Travis


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Time will tell.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Working on a crank pulley now and will see how it does.Would hate to lead any of you "blindly".


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I have around 40,000 miles on my light weight crank pulley and it sees a TON of belt tension. Every respectable after market company known to man makes crank pulleys with out rubber donut rings in them including some of the most respected BMW, VW and Mercedes after market firms. Pulleys that are going on 100,000 dollar cars. I highly doubt they do it knowing the will spin a bearings in 20,000 miles. Nore have I ever seen a single post on the Vortex showing a spun bearing that could be directly linked to a light weight crank pulley.
The only thing I have seen is one article claiming they are bad.
Please explain just how aluminum creates added load on the main bearings? After all the VR6 has more main bearing caps than most large muscle cars. Also we will have even less belt tension with cogged pulleys. The VR6 is also internally balanced as for as I have ever know. The crank pulley does have a rubber ring in it but I see nothing with that that makes it so special. 
Making the main pulley from heavy steel is NOT what I want. Just holding a tax return until these are done. Or maybe it is better to just get a 2.5" pulley and solve the belt slip problems by engineering the dual idler properly in the first place.


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*

Cog Drives create an increased load. There is "no" give that a standard serpintine system yields. 
This added tension, is not acceptable on the VR. The standard crank Pulley is Balanced, and includes a harmonic. High end Tuners, DO NOT use lightweight crank pulleys. Its a disaster waiting to happen. 
I don't know about you, but I don't want my crankshaft trying to "jump rope" in its journals. 
Here is a link for you from a highly respected BMW Tuner:
http://www.dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=5
This is regarding non-cogged engines. Cog Driving increase this load by unacceptable levels. 
Cheers, Travis


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Well I guess sense I am not making them it is a pointless argument. They will be made out of what ever. I still do not agree and I have never seen a VR6 that had an issue light weight pulleys. I have to tighten the crud out of my stock belt and I have 0 slip @ 13psi. So you are saying a cogged pulley that has 0 slip and a LOT less belt tension will increase load? If that is the case why would I want them at all. Even though Vortech's web sight sugjests cogged pulleys for boost over 13psi.
Why not just redesign the idler pulleys so we have more belt wrap and source a 7 rib gator back belt? Again I have been running this sort of set up and reasearching this topic for years now. Vortech them selves have been selling light weight alloy crank pulleys to the muscle car crowd for MANY MANY years and I have never seen posts claiming it kills bearings.?
I guess as I am not the engineer I will have to take your word on this but it goes against my understanding of physics 
Just machine them from 6060 keep the belts from jumping on and the cost down and I will run them.
Well sadly unless a persons charger has a race-H, race-M or Marine H or M labled under the EO# number they can NOT NOT use cogged pulleys period..


_Modified by Scooter98144 at 1:56 AM 4-18-2006_


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## Derelict Dub (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_
Well sadly unless a persons charger has a race-H, race-M or Marine H or M labled under the EO# number they can NOT NOT use cogged pulleys period..

_Modified by Scooter98144 at 1:56 AM 4-18-2006_

Scooter I'm curious as to why a charger with the Race-M labeling can't run the cogged set-up. My charger is a Race-M V-1 and I was original told by Chris from C2 that this has Race bearings in it. Is that the reason possibly? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: (93Dubster)*

Sorry but if you read what I said it says you need to have those letters to uses cogged pulleys. As yours does have that letter you can run cogged just fine. I need to find out if mine does as it is not stamped in the metal and all the paint as long rubbed off. Can you post a pic of your numbers?
I hope I do not have a nasty attitude about this project. Just tired of the endles talk of metal this balanced that. After nearly 6 months it should be pretty darn simple. Machined 6060-T6 and a couple thing guide plates bolted on. Any thing more than 600 bucks and I will solve the problem a diffrent way.

_Quote, originally posted by *93Dubster* »_
Scooter I'm curious as to why a charger with the Race-M labeling can't run the cogged set-up. My charger is a Race-M V-1 and I was original told by Chris from C2 that this has Race bearings in it. Is that the reason possibly? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Derelict Dub (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*

Sorry about that Scooter, I must have mis-interpreted what you said.....I'll snap some photos of the "Race-M" stamping on the charger when I get off of work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## yellerrado (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_Well I guess sense I am not making them it is a pointless argument. They will be made out of what ever. I still do not agree and I have never seen a VR6 that had an issue light weight pulleys. I have to tighten the crud out of my stock belt and I have 0 slip @ 13psi. So you are saying a cogged pulley that has 0 slip and a LOT less belt tension will increase load? If that is the case why would I want them at all. Even though Vortech's web sight sugjests cogged pulleys for boost over 13psi.
Why not just redesign the idler pulleys so we have more belt wrap and source a 7 rib gator back belt? Again I have been running this sort of set up and reasearching this topic for years now. Vortech them selves have been selling light weight alloy crank pulleys to the muscle car crowd for MANY MANY years and I have never seen posts claiming it kills bearings.?
I guess as I am not the engineer I will have to take your word on this but it goes against my understanding of physics 
Just machine them from 6060 keep the belts from jumping on and the cost down and I will run them.
Well sadly unless a persons charger has a race-H, race-M or Marine H or M labled under the EO# number they can NOT NOT use cogged pulleys period..

_Modified by Scooter98144 at 1:56 AM 4-18-2006_

muscle guys have run them for years but they still run harmonic balancers..
now if all this makes bad loads and all that fun stuff.. does the timing belt kill bearings.. thats not dampened and drives cams which are rather hard to turn.. also if your runnin over 13psi in a vr6 what makes the difference to check and replace parts in the bottom end every 20k miles.. thats prob like every 2 years for these guys..


----------



## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (yellerrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yellerrado* »_
also if your runnin over 13psi in a vr6 what makes the difference to check and replace parts in the bottom end every 20k miles.. thats prob like every 2 years for these guys.. 


are you insinuating that we should tear our blocks apart and check stuff every 20k miles?
AND
that its *NO BIG DEAL?*


----------



## yellerrado (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (doobsta)*

no need to tear the blocks down.. but how hard is it to pull the oil pan.. take off a main cap and make sure everything is good in there? you have to remember your not driving a stock car.. if you wanna play you gotta make sure everything stays in top shape.. im not bitchin about puttin another motor in my corrado after the 1.8t that was in it and only had 3k miles on it was all f-ed up from my oil pan gettin ripped open. maybe its just my mentality that i work on my car prob just as much as i drive it..


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (yellerrado)*



yellerrado said:


> now if all this makes bad loads and all that fun stuff.. does the timing belt kill bearings.. thats not dampened and drives cams which are rather hard to turn..QUOTE]
> Those engines are engineered and designed with that load in consideration.
> This topic involves a load that wasn't in the original design calculations.


----------



## windsor96vr6 (Aug 3, 2005)

All of this talk about the VR6 crank pulley having a built in harmonic balancer/dampner is making me sick. Have any of you looked at a VR6 crank pulley? There is no harmonic dampner.... It is a generic pulley. no fluid in it, nothing to make it even appear like it has anything built into it to control vibrations.
Which one of you is going to put roller rockers and titanium pushrods in your v dub first?








Keep it going wiz.... almost there. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by windsor96vr6 at 11:04 AM 4-19-2006_


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (windsor96vr6)*

Ummm.... take a look at your pulley again... see the rubber in it... that is the dampener... it is not liquid filled it is a rubber insert meant to take out vibrations and it is definitely in there http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## windsor96vr6 (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*

ummmm you mean that thin little sliver of rubber








yeah.... uh, ok here is your solution.
dip it in that plastic tool handle dip stuff so you can absorb the vibrations.....
the rest of us will just bolt it on and run with it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
If you need anymore dilemmas solved just pm me


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (windsor96vr6)*

I see you are just another one of the many that think they know everything....
Did you ever consider that if it did nothing and was not needed it would not be there... the cost to produce a pulley with an insert, no matter how small as opposed to a solid metal piece would have to be atleast triple if not more... do you think VW or any other company would waste that money if it did nothing.... this is not a VW only issue almost all factory crank pulleys have some sort of dampening device in them or if not externally then to take out vibrations, period end of story.
I am not even arguing that it is needed on these, as I originally posted most of the people probably looking into this are not putting 15k on there cars every year. But if a solution can be reached it is definitely worth looking into http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif It is always better to over engineer the under


----------



## windsor96vr6 (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_I see you are just another one of the many that think they know everything....

Did you say this in front of a mirror?

_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_I am not even arguing that it is needed on these, as I originally posted most of the people probably looking into this are not putting 15k on there cars every year. But if a solution can be reached it is definitely worth looking into http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif It is always better to over engineer the under

I plan on putting as many miles as possible on my car. 
how many unorthodox, turn2, etc lightweight pulleys do you think were sold? How much proof is there that removing this little piece of rubber causes it to go out of balance? I know someone who has 100,000 miles on some turn 2 pullies. And I grew up with the guy who started turn 2. no problems. EVAR.
this little bit of rubber isn't capable of too much "dampening" it is after all just a little bit of rubber. And look at all of the rubber bits and pieces in these cars, vw trying to make them as smooth and soft as possible.
on a side note, some of the rubber in the pulley on my windsor beater has "rotted" ( so cal and rubber- problems)
guess it is going to blow up now?
have you ever noticed that the power steering pulley has a little wobble to it on some vr6's? maybe that rubber is there to absorb the wobble vibrations of the acc pulleys. maybe the resonant frequency of the vibrating accessories causes the belt to vibrate, and slip. so maybe this rubber is there to absorb those frequencies...
do i believe that is really why the rubber is there? of course not. but is it any less likely than your explanation? no. just like everything else. a 50 /50 chance we are both wrong. or right.
and how much extra is it to make that pulley vs. one without rubber? maybe $1.00 or so. 
if you think they wouldn't waste money on "stuff" then explain to me why they designed the window regulators the way they did. or those stupid plastic caps for the lug nuts... Hell, why put the fan control module under the coolant tank so when it overflows, water drips into the module and shorts it out.
how about the 35 screws to holds each door panel on?
enough pissing in wizards thread.
I will take the regular no dampened pullies please......








and since today is my birthday, I am 100% right until 12:00 am PST.















edit for spelling


_Modified by windsor96vr6 at 1:00 PM 4-19-2006_


----------



## AzradoVr666 (Apr 3, 2006)

*Re: (windsor96vr6)*

i love people who think aluminuim is the devil...... LOOK at our crank....this isnt rocket science......i'm starting to question the people making these......first talking about underdriving the first set now making them outta steel cause of the (pulley) myth.....what kind of extensive research has put into this? seems weird how the people who nay say light weight pullies...dont sell them or dont have a set....just my 2 cents...flame on










_Modified by AzradoVr666 at 3:40 PM 4-19-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (AzradoVr666)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AzradoVr666* »_first talking about underdriving the first set now making them outta steel cause of the (pulley) myth

Ok I have let you guys babble on long enough but this bs is getting out of hand.
Couple of FACTS:
* The Crankshaft,Power steering & Alternator *ARE NOT UNDERDRIVEN FOR THE LAST TIME*!








* The only pulley I will ever make from Steel would be the Crankshaft unit and it would not be from scratch.
* There are many Vortexer's running around with lightweight pulley's from ebay,neuspeed,eurosport,etc and none of them have any issues with main bearings however I want these pulley's to get some sort of harmonic treatment.
Now please if you guys want to carry on your pissy arguments do it on your own time and this is really starting to look insulting.


----------



## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: (AzradoVr666)*

Lets keep this on track on not go nasty. Over thinking these pulleys will mean that they are never buyilt. At this rate I would be better off getting a 2.5" pulley and cut down an 8 rib to seven then design the idler pulleys for more belt wrap and have said pulleys closer to the drive pulley.
But I am still hopping the cogged setup ends up working.


----------



## rossmc1 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I dont own a VR and dont want to buy a set of these,but i've read about belt slip and always wonder,why a metal chain couldnt be used,from the charger to one more pulley only.
To fit,as everything is lined up,if u added sprockets (like a push bike gear)added somehow to sit just infront of the c/pulley and s/c pulley
I take it the added weight maybe is the killer,as seems very simple(too simple)as there are a few bonuses,the metal chain wouldnt need tensioning like a belt,zero slip,still run the std pulley set up(so u could still have the std crank pulley)also wouldnt be shreading belts,aswell as sourcing belts would be a problem
Anyway im sure there is a reason why it wont work,so can some explain to me
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (rossmc1)*

I don't like the idea of a dulled chainsaw in my engine bay. Plus without tensioners the chain "slap" would damage the blower. 
That's just a nasty accident waiting to happen. LOL


----------



## Derelict Dub (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
That's just a nasty accident waiting to happen. LOL

I second that... I've had regular serpentine belt break a few times and when they go they can rip open filters and such and that's only rubber, so I only can imagine what a metal chain would do to the inside of your engine bay...


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (93Dubster)*

I keep having this picture im my head of the guy from "Evil Dead 2" but instead of the guy its a VR6 with a chainsaw arm running after people.


----------



## rossmc1 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

BUt wouldnt a chain belt not have to run a less tension than a belt,i know it must not be a plausible idea for some reason,but snapping i wouldnt imagine would be it,i always thought motor bikes using metal belts,and that seem a bit more dangerous running one under your leg,than in your engine bay


_Modified by rossmc1 at 12:39 AM 4-22-2006_


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (rossmc1)*

Gives you something to think about. But remember that bike chains need frequent lube to keep them in proper working order. That's gonna make a mess in the bay. The better way to do it would be gear drive, but that's a whole 'nother can o' worms. 
I wonder what that would sound like, a "Pete Jackson" style gear driven VR6?


----------



## rossmc1 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: (AzradoVr666)*

and what the suppose to mean


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I wonder what that would sound like, a "Pete Jackson" style gear driven VR6?

That would be way too extreme.A cogged belt is as far as I go.
p.s. If some of you are wondering where your posts went,its because I have reported them.I really like how 5 months ago this was just a thought and now everyone is an expert @ making & designing gears.I never claimed to be an expert nor will I ever claim to be an expert...I got into this and learnt the hard way what works and what does not work.


----------



## rossmc1 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Maybe wasnt a great idea then(went to look for a dumb/embarresed emo,but guess that wouldnt get used round here much)
Anyway hopes u's get your pulleys in the end http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (rossmc1)*

Sorry, back on topic: 
Wizard, any luck with running the prototypes yet? Were still trying to figure out the crank pulley. It's just not a top priority at the moment. We have some other things to tackle first. 
Cheers, Travis


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I wonder what that would sound like, a "Pete Jackson" style gear driven VR6? 









U could call that the meat grinder.


----------



## AzradoVr666 (Apr 3, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Wow wiz be a man stop whining.......if u dont like our idea's dont use them but we're giving you input cause we're the people out here buying the product......sooo if u dont hear what u wanna hear dont read it or just end this post and make a new post when u actually have the pullies running....that's all there is 2 it....its just very typical of the tex (wah wah i'm not hearing what i wanna hear wah) some of these post really make sense and are solid idea's if u actually read what is said instead of Knowing what u want.....once again make these work i'd buy a charger for my car then...otherwise dont ask for input


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (AzradoVr666)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AzradoVr666* »_sooo if u dont hear what u wanna hear dont read it or just end this post and make a new post when u actually have the pullies running....that's all there is 2 it

No..I will tell you what there is 2 it.YOU go create your own thread and discuss what you want to see.Stay out of this thread if your name is not on the list on page 1.Nothing personal against you.
Thanks.


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
No..I will tell you what there is 2 it.YOU go create your own thread and discuss what you want to see.Stay out of this thread if your name is not on the list on page 1.Nothing personal against you.
Thanks.

You have obviously forgotten that the vortex is a forum collective and in a forum the threads belong to everyone. Unless you are paying for this thread you have no right telling anyone to leave.


----------



## slammedvwgolf (Feb 16, 2004)

you go Feanor...lol get those pullies made i wanna set for my vf kit....


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (slammedvwgolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_you have no right telling anyone to leave.

Actually that is where your wrong.Unless your on that list back on page 1 which means you have faith in what I am doing then your opinion is really mute to me.
Everyone had a chance to voice there opinions back when in the previous thread where we discussed what the pulley's will be made of and the # of teeth each pulley would have in order to get the right ratio.I went ahead with the design found a flaw after production,corrected it and now waiting to see the outcome.
I find this back & forth banter to be quite insulting to my design work which is the whole reason why I got into this in the first place.Whatever your thinking about now ,I thought about before and came up with the best solution.You dont like my solution then go elsewhere as the last thing I want to do is dip into any of the other advertisers profits.Not trying to be an *******,I just prefer to speak my mind.If you want to be added to the list then kindly send me an IM.
Thanks.


----------



## AzradoVr666 (Apr 3, 2006)

*Re: (slammedvwgolf)*

all bow down 2 the mighty wiz......anyone with a highschool cad drawing class can do what u did....make them run and shut me up...otherwise dont discuss design if u know what the design is


----------



## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

F them man, get these pulleys working so you can **** on the haters later... I have been thinking about selling my blower for a turbo kit for a while now but i want to try these cogged pulleys first.


----------



## idg4ever (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I find this back & forth banter to be quite insulting to my design work.


when will we see or hear of your design manifesting. obviously you dont want any feedback or input so i wont give you mine. my name isnt on page 1. that must mean i dont have a valuable opinion or anything productive to contribute.
i hope this project works and in the end you dont look like a fool. i like the idea of the cog setup and dont know if it is better than a c2 dual idler setup.
hope to see them soon. i will buy 3 sets if it works.



_Modified by idg4ever at 8:09 AM 4-23-2006_


----------



## rossmc1 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I always thought this was a car forum,didnt realise it was your new tuning store lol


----------



## rossmc1 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

good luck and hope ya get it all sorted,just lighten up a bit and take it easy
and did i tell u i had another good solution to belt slip
What about mouse wheels mounted to the SC instead of a pulley,u'll never have belt slip again,no machining of pulleys,so no dampening/balancing problems,with only extra cost/expense being a couple of pounds of cheese a years(Edam for track use,or helmet cheese if u have a built engine)(spreading cheese for daily driving),or could run either a twin small mouse or single big mouse,or if u want some seriously moose boost,u could run twin big mouse(u may need them to run Nikes over 10 psi)


----------



## vwedgar98 (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: (rossmc1)*

can anyone tell me what stage vf charger i have? also, can anyone explain cogged pulleys, and all that? can i switch my 6psi pulley to a 10psi pulley without any mods?? lmk..
heres my 95 gti..
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2566082


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (vwedgar98)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwedgar98* »_can anyone tell me what stage vf charger i have? also, can anyone explain cogged pulleys, and all that? can i switch my 6psi pulley to a 10psi pulley without any mods?? lmk..
heres my 95 gti..
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2566082


Try posting a new thread in the S/C forum for help. You need to do a lot more research. 
Worry about restoring your compression problems before upgrading your pulley's.


----------



## slammedvwgolf (Feb 16, 2004)

thank god.plz get me a set asap


----------



## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (slammedvwgolf)*

so when will we be able to have these kits?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (hubbell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hubbell* »_so when will we be able to have these kits?

When I feel they are good and ready to be distributed to the public.
There is no easy way to say this but after 6 months I do not feel an aluminum crankshaft gear should be presented to the public and thats why I went back to the drawing board even though some said a T6061 gear would be fine.
Getting the gears mass produced isnt an issue as many of you have came forward and offered your services.So once I give the go ahead,gears will take 5-7 buisness days to be produced.I just need to sources alot of second hand (or new) crankshaft pulley's.


----------



## slammedvwgolf (Feb 16, 2004)

plz signme up!!!!!!!!!!!! i want them as soon as u know that they will work....plz get back to me i hate ***** slipping!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## idg4ever (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I just need to sources alot of second hand (or new) crankshaft pulley's.

i have 2 extra.. will you be able to give a core credit. How much will the entire "kit" run? $$$$$ well keep us informed.. please add me to your list.


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (idg4ever)*


_Quote, originally posted by *idg4ever* »_How much will the entire "kit" run? $$$$$ well keep us informed.. please add me to your list.

Hoping to keep it under 700 but we will see.


----------



## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

let us worry about the extra crank pullies, i have one ill send it in, just make everyone pay for a core or send one in....


----------



## idg4ever (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (hubbell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hubbell* »_let us worry about the extra crank pullies, i have one ill send it in, just make everyone pay for a core or send one in....

sounds good.. keep us posted


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## slammedvwgolf (Feb 16, 2004)

bump for cogged pullies i desperately need...


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (slammedvwgolf)*


----------



## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I have 3 sets of 12v VR6 crank pulleys so if you need a few i have 3 to spare (1 on the car and 2 laying arround in my garage)


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (KIEZERJOSE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KIEZERJOSE* »_I have 3 sets of 12v VR6 crank pulleys so if you need a few i have 3 to spare (1 on the car and 2 laying arround in my garage)


Check your IM.Thanks alot


----------



## 2.0-16v-scirocco (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

cog pulley pics.


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (2.0-16v-scirocco)*


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (2.0-16v-scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.0-16v-scirocco* »_cog pulley pics

Looking good Allen... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (2.0-16v-scirocco)*

Yeah, way to show these guys how its done.


----------



## idg4ever (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (2.0-16v-scirocco)*

so whats up? how do they work???


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## idg4ever (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Yeah!
way to piss all over my thread post after post...









do you have anything ready??? or is it still in the "works"


----------



## mk_ultra' (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: (2.0-16v-scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.0-16v-scirocco* »_cog pulley pics.









nice work


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (idg4ever)*


_Quote, originally posted by *idg4ever* »_do you have anything ready??

Couple of months late?Only thing in the "works" is the crankshaft pulley...


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## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

no lip on those pulleys? and what are you doing for tightening?


----------



## idg4ever (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Couple of months late?Only thing in the "works" is the crankshaft pulley...









i stand corrected.. when will the crank pulley be ready?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (idg4ever)*


_Quote, originally posted by *idg4ever* »_i stand corrected.. when will the crank pulley be ready?

2 weeks?I dont want to give a date and then nothing shows up because its been 9 months allready and I have pretty much had enough of the back and forth banter.
I did my part and designed the pulley's,handed off the drawings/solid work files to a dozen machine shops with the promise to get results and so far every single one has either produced 1 pulley then went MIA or just dropped off the face of the earth with the promise of bs.
I wish I had the ability to make these pulley's...
Tomorrow afternoon I will know the position when I speak to the machine shop.


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

The original machine shop that woulda worked best from day one


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_The original machine shop that woulda worked best from day one









Only heard good things about them so I hope this will be the last of it.


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I wish I had the ability to make these pulley's...
Tomorrow afternoon I will know the position when I speak to the machine shop.

Hmmm, well Allen is a machinist and he has access to equipment that you don't. He can also produce cogged pulley kits for half the price that you can. Maybe he can help you out.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_He can also produce cogged pulley kits for half the price that you can.

All machine shops charge a standard rate.Pricing is not really my concern because it all boils down to how many people you can get on board.
common scenario @ a machine shop:
1 Set - $1000US/set
10 sets - $600US/set
100 sets - $300US/Set 
If Allen is willing to help out then I am all ears.This was not intended to be a money making scheme... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## idg4ever (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

if they work.. ill buy 3 sets.. will you compare the set to a dual idler setup.. lets compare apples to apples... the whole idea is to reduce belt slipage right?? correct me if im wrong.. im not too deep in this..


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (idg4ever)*


_Quote, originally posted by *idg4ever* »_the whole idea is to reduce belt slipage right

Thats right.Allowing V2/V9 users to take there superchargers to the "next" step i.e. 15psi+
After alot of negative feedback came in about the Crankshaft pulley being made from T6061,the choice was made to stick it out with the stock crankshaft pulley and see what could be done with it.


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Thats right.Allowing *V2/V9* users to take there superchargers to the "next" step i.e. 15psi+


----------



## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (hazw8st)*

anyday now or what? sooner the better...


----------



## idg4ever (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

patiently waiting


----------



## need a vdub (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: (idg4ever)*

impatiently waiting.. Iwas just looking for a local shop to develop.. I am shooting for 20 PSI though


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (need a vdub)*

I cant wait to see the numbers people will be putting down with these setups, cool stuff.


----------



## J.Q. Public (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: (PhReE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhReE* »_I cant wait to see the numbers people will be putting down with these setups, cool stuff.


Be prepared to be dissapointed. The problem with most s/c setups is in the fueling not making boost. 
What is everyone going to do once these cogged pullies are done and they do make 18-20 psi? Very few s/c cars are intercooled. No way you are going to be able to run that boost non intercooled on chip tuning and make any real power
Lets not forget that NONE of the major charger manufacturers recommend a cogged setup for street use. Not Vortech not Pro-charger not Paxton. Maybe they know something you guys don't? 
I can't wait for all you people to spend ~$600 on cogged pullies and then $7-800 on an intercooler and then realize the fueling still isn't there. Oh yeah have fun replacing $100 belts and rebuilding your charger cause it wasn't deisgned for the shock loading a cogged belt will induce.
Most s/c'ed guys would be better off looking into some real fueling instead of wasting money on these pullies. Oh and I don't mean C2 which was never even tuned on a s/c car though it is marketed as though it was
Hate to come off like such a dick but I have watched this thread drag on for months with tons of idiots posting thinking these will be the miracle solution to their poor running s/c'ed cars. Fact is most of you either have a setup or software problem. Believe me a PROPERLY setup s/c is plenty fast at 10-12 psi.




_Modified by J.Q. Public at 7:32 PM 5-25-2006_


----------



## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: (J.Q. Public)*

Well I am intercooled and I have the fueling to support 15-17 psi. At a mere 12 psi I made 310hp. 

_Quote, originally posted by *J.Q. Public* »_

Be prepared to be dissapointed. The problem with most s/c setups is in the fueling not making boost. 
And what is everyone going to do once these cogged pullies are done and the do make 18-20 psi? Very few s/c cars are intercooled. No way you are going to be able to run that boost non intercooled on chip tuning and make any real power
Lets not forget that NONE of the major charger manufacturers recommend a cogged setup for street use. Not Vortech not Pro-charger not Paxton. Maybe they know something you guys don't? 
I can't wait for all you people to spend ~$600 on cogged pullies and then $7-800 on an intercooler and then realize the fueling still isn't there. Oh yeah have fun replacing $100 belts and rebuilding your chrager cause it wasn't deisgned for the shock loading a cogged belt will induce.
Most s/c'ed guys would be better off looking into some real fueling instead of wasting money on these pullies. Oh and I don't mean C2 which was never even tuned on a s/c car though it is marketed as though it was
Hate to come off like such a dick but I have watched this thread drag on for months with tons of idiots posting thinking these will be the miracle solution to their poor running s/c'ed cars. Fact is most of you either have a setup or software problem. Believe me a PROPERLY setup s/c is plenty fast at 10-12 psi.

_Modified by J.Q. Public at 7:10 PM 5-25-2006_


----------



## J.Q. Public (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*

Yes you are intercooled and you are one of the few cars I was thinking of when I said most weren't.
Correct me if I wrong but you made 310whp on atp software and the fueling you speak of that will support 15-17psi has given you nothing but problems since you installed it? 
Nothing personal as your car should be an inspiration to most people with a s/c. [email protected] is more than enough for the street.


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

*Re: (J.Q. Public)*

look up absolut vw (or however its spelt) he has atp tuning just got his intercooler and shortrunner installed and such. think he made 251 on like 11-12 psi? idk exact numbers but hes doing good. 
i mean if someone is serious about their setup they will go standalone, or go the extra mile and get it tuned and get a custom chip. i dont see why your raining on this parade? if someone wants deal will c2 and get a custom chip made or go to them if your close to where ever and get custom chip burnt right there and have it tuned by them.
I understand its a concern right now, but it is definitely no problem that cant be solved easy.


----------



## VRBTCHCAR (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

Eternal you have no idea what you are talking about...You should prolly go get your car together instead of adding your opinion


----------



## J.Q. Public (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_look up absolut vw (or however its spelt) he has atp tuning just got his intercooler and shortrunner installed and such. think he made 251 on like 11-12 psi? idk exact numbers but hes doing good. 
.

If you are referring to the blue mk2 from VA his screen name is The Yoda and he made 251 at 10 psi or so without the intercooler or the short runner. Its decent for sure. Don't see him anywhere in this thread though so I dont see how its relevant. 

_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_
i mean if someone is serious about their setup they will go standalone, or go the extra mile and get it tuned and get a custom chip..

Yes is someone was serious they would address the fueling long before they worry about making more boost.

_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_ i dont see why your raining on this parade?...
I understand its a concern right now, but it is definitely no problem that cant be solved easy.

Some parades were meant to be rained on man. I know I am being a dick but I am only doing it in order to save people some money and some trouble. Its is a FACT that all s/c manufacturers do not recommend using a cogged setup on the street. 
If you look at the mustang world there has been a huge shift away from cogged pullies and more people are figuring out how to make the serpentine belt system work. If they can get 5-600whp out of an 8 rib belt with ease I think a 7 rib should be able to make more than 300. 
People like scooter98144 have already shown what the potential is at 12psi. Until I was making that kind of power or close to it making more boost would be the last thing I worry about. Its all these people putting 2.5" pullies on their C2 kits and making 230whp posting in this thread that make me laugh. More boost is not the answer to your problems and even if it were cogged pullies aren't they way to get more boost. But hey its your charger don't come crying when it needs a rebuild from using the cogged belt vortech says not to. 



_Modified by J.Q. Public at 9:54 PM 5-25-2006_


----------



## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: (J.Q. Public)*

"Most s/c'ed guys would be better off looking into some real fueling instead of wasting money on these pullies. Oh and I don't mean C2 which was never even tuned on a s/c car though it is marketed as though it was"
If the C2 chip wasnt tuned on a stage 2 S/C'd car then what did I stay up with Chris and Jeff doing pulls till 4am for.....
fueling isnt an issue, its just too many vairables from car to car running a MAP tune and keeping it "safe". I have posted how to adjust accell/decell trims many times and it helps out the idle,and rich A/F's when you punch it .....
Some of us cannot run standalone on our cars and get them to pass local B.S. and have them legal, so chip tuning is the best way.... 
Yes the vortechs are limited with pulley size on VW, we need a larger crank pulley to make some real power and minimize slip(most domestic crank pulleys are quite large)
,but it wont fit without alot of work....I'd like to see a Procharger on a VW, as the step up is 5.something to 1,vs 3.XX to 1 
I agree most S/C cars would be off adding a intercooler/high flow exhaust before screwing with pulleys.
Also many of the belt "slipping" issuses can be "fixed" by simpily checking to see if the motor is moving enough to cause the charge pipe to impact the strut tower. When this happens even if there is play in the couplers the Charger head will get deflected and cause the belt to begin slipping. I adjusted mine with a BFH, and most of my slipping went away...... Yes I have aftermarket motor mounts.
I sold my charger setup to a friend who loves it, its dam fast in a MKII with a vr swap.It runs awesome with the ODB1 Stage 2 Chip.....
I moved on and now am finishing my turbo kit...... 
BTW, 268 cams REALLY wake up the top end with a S/C, plus it lets you use the "extra" fuel the tune has left in the MAP.







Good flowing exhaust is a must......


_Modified by mikebobelak at 12:03 AM 5-26-2006_


----------



## J.Q. Public (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: (mikebobelak)*

I was specifically speaking of the obd1 chip when I said it wasn't tuned on a s/c car. Should have clarified
I agree most people need to tweak there setups (obd2 does let you play with some of the adaptation channels, unfortunately obd1 does not) and thats the point of my whole post. Maximize what you have before you worry about making more boost. Most people aren't seeing the boost they should with the pullies they have and even if they are they are not making the power the should with the boost they are seeing. 
If you aren't seeing 10-11psi with a v1 and a 3.12" pulley and 13-14 with a 2.87" you have belt slip or other setup issues. (stock compression non-intercooled though lower comrpession/intercooler should come close to those numbers as well)
Anyone who wants to spend $600 on cogged pullies but hasn't made over 270whp with a 2.87" yet is just looking in the wrong direction. Even then the money would be better spent elsewhere.
As for a procharger on a vw there is a mk2 with one. Can't remember the guys sn but it looks like a nice setup. Claims around 300whp.


----------



## idg4ever (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (J.Q. Public)*


_Quote, originally posted by *J.Q. Public* »_

Be prepared to be dissapointed. The problem with most s/c setups is in the fueling not making boost. 
What is everyone going to do once these cogged pullies are done and they do make 18-20 psi? Very few s/c cars are intercooled. No way you are going to be able to run that boost non intercooled on chip tuning and make any real power
Lets not forget that NONE of the major charger manufacturers recommend a cogged setup for street use. Not Vortech not Pro-charger not Paxton. Maybe they know something you guys don't? 
I can't wait for all you people to spend ~$600 on cogged pullies and then $7-800 on an intercooler and then realize the fueling still isn't there. Oh yeah have fun replacing $100 belts and rebuilding your charger cause it wasn't deisgned for the shock loading a cogged belt will induce.
Most s/c'ed guys would be better off looking into some real fueling instead of wasting money on these pullies. Oh and I don't mean C2 which was never even tuned on a s/c car though it is marketed as though it was
Hate to come off like such a dick but I have watched this thread drag on for months with tons of idiots posting thinking these will be the miracle solution to their poor running s/c'ed cars. Fact is most of you either have a setup or software problem. Believe me a PROPERLY setup s/c is plenty fast at 10-12 psi.
_Modified by J.Q. Public at 7:32 PM 5-25-2006_

preach it brother!!!!!! what do you think of the 9.0 or 8.5 head gasket spacer and the dual idler set up from c2 motorsports. i mean, wont it reduce slippage drastically?? let me know the truth Reverend. 
dont mean to go off subject so i will apoligize before i get my head ripped off.


----------



## vonfulk (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (idg4ever)*

apology unaccepted.


----------



## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

For those that have installed a stand alone, have installed high flow headers, race pipe, high flow exhaust, done hours of research to rebuild their charger with ceramic bearings and high load thrust input bearings, and done all the work themselves... cogged pullies were just an eventuality, as this is the long pole in the tent now... 
Some people have been doing their homework -- and their documentation may help others that aren't as enlightened. Just my $0.02, though.


----------



## J.Q. Public (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: (majic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *majic* »_For those that have installed a stand alone, have installed high flow headers, race pipe, high flow exhaust, done hours of research to rebuild their charger with ceramic bearings and high load thrust input bearings, and done all the work themselves...

And how many people in this post have done this amount of work? Hell how many people period have? I can only think of a handful of cars that have used standalone on a vr6 with a s/c.Not sure who has bothered with the upgraded bearings either.
Fact of the matter is most people willing to do that much go turbo for a reason. It ends up being cheaper to make more power. Not saying turbo is for everyone but its something to think about if you are that power hungry. 
I would still like to see someone address how cogged pullies are a good idea when none of the major charger manufacturers recommend them and the largest vw s/c company (VF) abandoned the idea after a reported $50,000 investment in R&D. As I said earlier look at what all the mustang guys are doing (probably the single largest vortech using community.) Almost every street car is moving to an 8 rib serpentine belt system. Suggest a cogged belt on one of their boards and most of em will laugh at you unless you are building an all out race car. Thats a commmunity that has SEVERAL off the shelf cogged applications to choose from and yet most of em are running a serpentine belt. Maybe they (and VF) know something?
Given that a 2.87" pulley is good for ~14psi I would think a 2.75" or 2.6x pulley setup with no belt slip would provide more than enough boost for most cars. 


_Modified by J.Q. Public at 4:19 PM 5-26-2006_


----------



## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: (J.Q. Public)*

Read section 7 part 5 for belts
http://www.vortechsupercharger...e.pdf

One thing in all this that has been left out is 1: Why not source a 7 rib belt. 2: why not make a proper dual idler rather than the poorly done one that C2 has. 3: Why not make or add some bracing to the charger so the belt under sudden load does not bend the charger bracket causing the belt to miss-align and hence slip!


_Modified by Scooter98144 at 3:42 AM 5-27-2006_


----------



## Derelict Dub (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_Read section 7 part 5 for belts
http://www.vortechsupercharger...e.pdf

One thing in all this that has been left out is 1: Why not source a 7 rib belt. 2: why not make a proper dual idler rather than the poorly done one that C2 has. 3: Why not make or add some bracing to the charger so the belt under sudden load does not bend the charger bracket causing the belt to miss-align and hence slip!

_Modified by Scooter98144 at 3:42 AM 5-27-2006_

My charger(v1 Race-M, so I'm not sure if it's the same for all V1's) has an additional fixed pulley adapter behind the normal pulley. Is there anyway to fab something up where that could be used for the dual idler. I mean If you source a 7 rib belt that is longer than it's current (61.5-60.5) and wrap the belt onto that "static" pulley (while at the same time be wrapped around the normal charger pulley) then wouldn't that cut down on belt slip since more tension would be on it and it would be a flatter pivot so belt slip wouldn't be as great. I don't know if this is possible, but it's an idea. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







and cheaper in my opinion than cogged, but once again it's just an idea


----------



## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

It's not always about cost, or effectiveness... you see some kids making RWD corrados and mid-engine vr6t gti's... maybe it's NOT a good idea... but it's definitely not a good idea to assume as much just because VW hasn't tried it (vw has never made a RWD corrado or a mid-engine vr6t...) People want to experiment and try in spite of the odds... whatever the consequences are, the risk we wage is coming out with something really cool -- curiosity is all I seek to satisfy. Isn't a turbo setup becoming commonplace? What kind of satisfaction would I have if I just took the easy route... done something that about 200 other people before me have done? Not only will I have the most custom car on my block/city/state... it might be a one-of-a-kind across the 'tex. That's not really something someone with a vr6t can claim without extensive modification.
I don't care if people say it's a bad idea, I'm too fool hearted to agree until I see some really bad sh*t happen. Then I'll concede, tell everyone else that I spent a bunch of time and money and it turned out terrible, and then I'll start replanning a new way ahead (presumably turbo setup)...
But it's all about that road not taken -- because if I gave up before I at least explored it, just a little... then I'd really be failing everyone, not just myself, eh?
P.S. I'm a scientist, not a pragmatist... I do things in that fly in the face of "conventional wisdom", because a real engineer doesn't always listen to the way it's always been done... they document all the ways that it can't be done by trying it themselves. But maybe that's just crazy










_Modified by majic at 4:44 PM 5-27-2006_


----------



## idg4ever (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_
why not make a proper dual idler rather than the poorly done one that C2 has.

what is the shortcomming of the c2 dual idler setup?


----------



## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: (idg4ever)*

The small idler pulley is to far away from the main pulley. When I sight down the belt and rev the engine hard you can see the belt stretching and whipping around. There is also room for more belt wrap.. It should be made from hard stiff steel as I had to grind the bolts down to keep the bolts from rubbing the belt. The bracket is to thick. It may also be flexing under load. You could have holes drilled in diffrent spots to match the different pulley sizesl. Doing that would let you mount the idler pulleys at different spots depending on what size pulley you have.
Or why not make a 8 rib pulley set. Vortech already sells all sorts of sizes of 8 rib pulleys. There are several companies who already make pulley kits so all that would need to be done would be to have them add 1 rib to there design.


_Quote, originally posted by *idg4ever* »_
what is the shortcomming of the c2 dual idler setup?


----------



## spooln6 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_The small idler pulley is to far away from the main pulley. When I sight down the belt and rev the engine hard you can see the belt stretching and whipping around. There is also room for more belt wrap.. It should be made from hard stiff steel as I had to grind the bolts down to keep the bolts from rubbing the belt. The bracket is to thick. It may also be flexing under load. You could have holes drilled in diffrent spots to match the different pulley sizesl. Doing that would let you mount the idler pulleys at different spots depending on what size pulley you have.
Or why not make a 8 rib pulley set. Vortech already sells all sorts of sizes of 8 rib pulleys. There are several companies who already make pulley kits so all that would need to be done would be to have them add 1 rib to there design.


 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_Or why not make a 8 rib pulley set. Vortech already sells all sorts of sizes of 8 rib pulleys. There are several companies who already make pulley kits so all that would need to be done would be to have them add 1 rib to there design.

Scott these are *ALOT* easier to produce as any machine shop can produce them but I thought you guys did not want to go this route?


----------



## windsor96vr6 (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_
Or why not make a 8 rib pulley set. Vortech already sells all sorts of sizes of 8 rib pulleys. There are several companies who already make pulley kits so all that would need to be done would be to have them add 1 rib to there design.


This is the route I planned on taking myself. I was one of the original people who tried to get these pulleys made for wiz. Business partners dad has a shop full of machine's 5 axis, lathes, etc. he is a "hobby machinist" and disappeared on me after i sent him the cogged files








My plan when I get back to VA was to take my crank pulley to a friend there and he was going to make one with 8 ribs AND oversized. We were planning on 5-10% oversized, with 8 ribs. Was going to machine the guides off of the other pulleys and see what happens.
figure the worst case scenario would be a need to increase the diameter of the acc pulleys equally. But it would have to be cheaper to make grooved pulleys, and I wonder if the acc. would even get jacked up from the increased rpm's. Especially if the amount they are overdriven isn't constant.
by that I mean they only "over rev" after say 5000 rpms and don't spend much time up there any way.
and maybe it would cool the motor better, pump up the a/c, and give you some extra amps for your stereo system








I was planning on documenting this in my project thread as it happens.
p.s. I agree about the idler. it could be improved a lot


_Modified by windsor96vr6 at 5:56 PM 5-28-2006_


----------



## 2.0-16v-scirocco (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Scott these are *ALOT* easier to produce as any machine shop can produce them but I thought you guys did not want to go this route?

I can make ribbed pulleys. I have all the tooling because I make the molds for goodyear for there ribbed belts


----------



## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

also -- asp motorsports does this thing where they cut grooves in the ribbed belts to give it more traction... something about that apparently helps, but I haven't read any evidence that really makes a difference. Goodyear also makes their "helicog" belts, which are a ribbed/cogged hybrid with notches cut in the ribs... supposed to give better traction as well -- but again, not real sure why.


----------



## 2.0-16v-scirocco (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: (majic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *majic* »_also -- asp motorsports does this thing where they cut grooves in the ribbed belts to give it more traction... something about that apparently helps, but I haven't read any evidence that really makes a difference. Goodyear also makes their "helicog" belts, which are a ribbed/cogged hybrid with notches cut in the ribs... supposed to give better traction as well -- but again, not real sure why.

I used to make the molds for those belts also


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## windsor96vr6 (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (2.0-16v-scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.0-16v-scirocco* »_
I used to make the molds for those belts also

DING DING DING !!! We have a winnar http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Bump for this awesome thread. Regardless of how it happens collectively we can get these chargers to 15+ psi one way or another !!!


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (windsor96vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *windsor96vr6* »_DING DING DING !!! We have a winnar http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (KIEZERJOSE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KIEZERJOSE* »_I have 3 sets of 12v VR6 crank pulleys so if you need a few i have 3 to spare (1 on the car and 2 laying arround in my garage)


Thanks Joe,I believe Allen got the gear.Hoping to see results this Friday


----------



## 2.0-16v-scirocco (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I got it, i will post pics. when it is done


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (2.0-16v-scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.0-16v-scirocco* »_I got it, i will post pics. when it is done

Awesome,Thanks for the support Allen.


----------



## Preston Meyers (Dec 22, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Any updates? Almost the end of the day here on the east coast at least.


----------



## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Thanks Joe,I believe Allen got the gear.Hoping to see results this Friday










Its jose and im glad i was able to help







if you guys make this happen i just might keep my supercharger, the way the sale is going it looks like i am going to have to anyway


----------



## MKII16v (Oct 23, 1999)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_The small idler pulley is to far away from the main pulley. When I sight down the belt and rev the engine hard you can see the belt stretching and whipping around. There is also room for more belt wrap..
 
Just drill and tap the bracket where you think is approriate and report back. Theres not much room to move it But you should be able to improve it.


_Modified by MKII16v at 2:34 PM 6-13-2006_


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (majic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *majic* »_. Isn't a turbo setup becoming commonplace? What kind of satisfaction would I have if I just took the easy route... done something that about 200 other people before me have done? Not only will I have the most custom car on my block/city/state... it might be a one-of-a-kind across the 'tex. That's not really something someone with a vr6t can claim without extensive modification.
_Modified by majic at 4:44 PM 5-27-2006_


This may be the most obtuse and asinine argument I've read in a while. If you think properly constructing a turbo vr6 is easy you're sorely mistaken. You're creating pitfalls for yourself by creating potential issues that nobody has ever had to diagnose or rectify. You're going to reinvent the wheel to be slower and more complicated than "everyone else". Why?


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

This may be the most obtuse and asinine argument I've read in a while. If you think properly constructing a turbo vr6 is easy you're sorely mistaken. You're creating pitfalls for yourself by creating potential issues that nobody has ever had to diagnose or rectify. You're going to reinvent the wheel to be slower and more complicated than "everyone else". Why?

word










_Modified by Feanor at 8:38 PM 6-13-2006_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_You're going to reinvent the wheel to be slower and more complicated than "everyone else". Why?

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Some people have different preferences.A Supercharged VR6 is not bad at all when it comes to power delivery.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

turbo on a stick. I would get rid of my 400whp turbo setup for a 300whp roots blower setup though.


----------



## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_turbo on a stick. I would get rid of my 400whp turbo setup for a 300whp roots blower setup though.

I've been contemplating doing a roots type vr blower setup for some time... but I need to get done with my current project before I move on to that. I've got a corrado that would be an outstandind candidate for such a setup


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (majic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *majic* »_
*I've been contemplating doing a roots type vr blower setup for some time... *but I need to get done with my current project before I move on to that. I've got a corrado that would be an outstandind candidate for such a setup

Total waste of money.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_Total waste of money.










210whp 280wtq FTL


----------



## The Yoda (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
This may be the most obtuse and asinine argument I've read in a while. If you think properly constructing a turbo vr6 is easy you're sorely mistaken. You're creating pitfalls for yourself by creating potential issues that nobody has ever had to diagnose or rectify. You're going to reinvent the wheel to be slower and more complicated than "everyone else". Why?

And what do you run in the 1/4??


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

210whp 280wtq FTL


----------



## spooln6 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (Feanor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Feanor* »_










Boy more positive response from feanor


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (The Yoda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Yoda* »_And what do you run in the 1/4??

Fast enough. I've got no power issue.


----------



## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (spooln6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spooln6* »_

Boy more positive response from feanor 

You know it B.


----------



## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (Feanor)*

so are these for sale yet? seriously getting impatient here....but too lazy to do it on my own so i guess im a bit stuck....please deliver with the quickness.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (hubbell)*

Rick I know you have been on board from since the beginning so you getting impatient must be really tough...








I am waiting just like everyone else.


----------



## 2.0-16v-scirocco (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Using the stock crank pulley will not work with the size that you wanted it. I tried to turn down the stock pulley to fit the ring gear that i made and I almost started to cut into the rubber. so either the crank pulley needs to be made larger or I can make a custom one without the ballencer.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (2.0-16v-scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.0-16v-scirocco* »_Using the stock crank pulley will not work with the size that you wanted it. I tried to turn down the stock pulley to fit the ring gear that i made and I almost started to cut into the rubber. so either the crank pulley needs to be made larger or I can make a custom one without the ballencer. 

Gotta have a balancer to keep the guys happy.
Bigger crank pulley = more rotations of supercharger = more boost









Always a bright side.


----------



## windsor96vr6 (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Gotta have a balancer to keep the guys happy.


"balancer" not needed over here...


----------



## idg4ever (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (windsor96vr6)*

Still waiting. Lets see your results


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## The Yoda (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: (idg4ever)*

this setup is never going to be finished, are you guys even going for cogged anymore or the 8 rib deal?


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (The Yoda)*

these guys are certainly doing the cog setup.
VF is doing some 8 rib setups tho.


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## windsor96vr6 (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (idg4ever)*


_Quote, originally posted by *idg4ever* »_Still waiting. Lets see your results


uummmm. My results?








I will not dirty up issam's new post. I have no results. If I ever get a title for the syncro I will have "results" for you. Actually, even If I don't get a title, I will still use the parts so you'll get results then. 
Either using whatever comes out of this thread, or making my own 8 rib over-sized non rubber coated pulley. 
And I hope your reply was in general and not posted to me....


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (The Yoda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Yoda* »_this setup is never going to be finished

Well if you have a better idea then I am all ears...
I have pretty much exhausted all my options,isnt much more I can do....


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## AzradoVr666 (Apr 3, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

only way a cog would work reliabley would be a 3 point setup.....charge,crank.tensioner.....look at people using cog's they dont want belt rap that's what the cog belt is for...i said this a while ago in one of these post and u guys shot me down......racing experience show's nobody would try converting all the accessories 2 cog because that means 2 much belt rap.... a 8 ribb is a much more streetable setup...so my 2 cents is try and figure a way for a extension 3 point system or give this idea up


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Wow this thread is back from the dead. As far as I can see this project pretty much died when the topic of HAVING to have the crank pulley dampened. I know I have stopped planning on it ever being made. At this point I would rather see an 8 rib setup.


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*

i was just talking about this yesterday, we was wondering WTF happened


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## spooln6 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_Wow this thread is back from the dead. As far as I can see this project pretty much died when the topic of HAVING to have the crank pulley dampened. I know I have stopped planning on it ever being made. At this point I would rather see an 8 rib setup.

2nd that scott


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (spooln6)*


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_Wow this thread is back from the dead. As far as I can see this project pretty much died when the topic of HAVING to have the crank pulley dampened. I know I have stopped planning on it ever being made. At this point I would rather see an 8 rib setup.

I tried my very best to produce results but even I have given up.


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## LSinLV (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

shall I lock this before Patrick "Jettset" comes in and says "I told you so!"......


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (LSinLV)*

LOL
you know Pat well


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: (LSinLV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LSinLV* »_shall I lock this before Patrick "Jettset" comes in and says "I told you so!"......


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (LSinLV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LSinLV* »_shall I lock this before Patrick "Jettset" comes in and says "I told you so!"......
















No you will leave the thread open until I say lock it.Because I have not heard anything does not mean nothing is being done.
Thanks


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## LSinLV (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
No you will leave the thread open until I say lock it.Because I have not heard anything does not mean nothing is being done.
Thanks


of course, you know me better than that!! it was a joke....didn't you see the







at the end???
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## windsor96vr6 (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Don't give up man. I'm not. SOMEONE in this thread is going to come up with a way to get this to happen.
And as I said before. If you want to make an over sized serpentine crank pulley w/o the so called "balancer"







I will try it out.
I don't buy into the hype of that b.s. rubber coating being so critical.
my plan to oversize all of the pulleys still stands. Hoping to go 8 rib, but even 7 rib with a larger crank,a/c,p/s,wp,alt will still allow you to run say the 2.87 pulley and get over 15 psi.
The only thing holding me back from working on this right now is all of my pullies are in VA and I am in CA.
but keep trying wiz. it will happen!!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: (windsor96vr6)*

8rib over sized may be the best rout at this time. As a side note on belt slip I wonder how many folks with aluminum charger brackets have more problems with slip compared to those with steel?


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## Derelict Dub (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_8rib over sized may be the best rout at this time. As a side note on belt slip I wonder how many folks with aluminum charger brackets have more problems with slip compared to those with steel?


Who makes steel?


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## windsor96vr6 (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (93Dubster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *93Dubster* »_

Who makes steel?

I believe the ams brackets were steel. I am also looking at making steel brackets off of my aluminum ones. or welding some "braces" on the aluminum to stiffen it. I also am going to tap a hole in the head for the "extra" bolt hole.
With the a/c and wp being smooth, we will only need crank, p/s, alternator pullies to be ribbed. 
and if we make the pullies 20% larger there might be two benefits. Tighter wrap (because distances between pullies will shrink) AND we won't need the 2.5 pulley to get high boost. 
Scooter, don't you have the formula to calculate the boost/vs pulley size?
What would the psi be if the crank pulley was 20% bigger with say the 2.87" pulley?
(I could do it myself but I am feeling lazy right now.)
P.S. Anyone have a spare crank pulley I can buy? I have extras of all the others but need a crank pulley to send to my boy. As soon as I have a pulley I will send them all to him and he will cut them on his lathe. And then I will have the key way and misc holes done by someone else. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Derelict Dub (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: (windsor96vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *windsor96vr6* »_I believe the ams brackets were steel. I am also looking at making steel brackets off of my aluminum ones. or welding some "braces" on the aluminum to stiffen it. I also am going to tap a hole in the head for the "extra" bolt hole.


I'll take some steel ones if you make them. I think a few poeple here in town would get some http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (LSinLV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LSinLV* »_shall I lock this before Patrick "Jettset" comes in and says "I told you so!"......
















I wouldn't do a thing like that Larry.


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## windsor96vr6 (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (windsor96vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *windsor96vr6* »_
P.S. Anyone have a spare crank pulley I can buy? 

anyone? I need a crank pulley to get this ball a rollin'


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (windsor96vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *windsor96vr6* »_P.S. Anyone have a spare crank pulley I can buy?

Contact Jose,I got one from him.


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## windsor96vr6 (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Contact Jose,I got one from him.

will do.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: (windsor96vr6)*

No need, im right here







will check my garage tomorrow morning and let you know if i still have one. I should but i want to make sure my garage didnt eat it 
Thanks wizard, i got my SC back on so im still here if you ever get these going http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (KIEZERJOSE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KIEZERJOSE* »_Thanks wizard, i got my SC back on so im still here if you ever get these going http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Both you & Scott know I have tried my very best to get these going.Turns out that machine shops find it easier to make serpentine pulley's rather than cogged ones.


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## 801pete (Apr 20, 2006)

wow, shocking. Oh wait, no its not, think about it for a second. lol


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## windsor96vr6 (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (801pete)*


_Quote, originally posted by *801pete* »_wow, shocking. Oh wait, no its not, think about it for a second. lol

You here to help ? if not beat it http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## 2.0-16v-scirocco (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: (windsor96vr6)*

I am waiting to find out how all the cog pulleys fit that i made. If they work good, I will start taking orders.


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## Derelict Dub (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: (2.0-16v-scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.0-16v-scirocco* »_I am waiting to find out how all the cog pulleys fit that i made. If they work good, I will start taking orders.

are you making any 8 rib pulleys?


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## 2.0-16v-scirocco (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: (93Dubster)*

no, but i could


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## Derelict Dub (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: (2.0-16v-scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.0-16v-scirocco* »_no, but i could

There was some talk about making the acessorie pullies 8 rib along with the crank so it would cut down on belt slip, but I haven't heard anything more... if this is possible I'd be down http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## windsor96vr6 (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (KIEZERJOSE)*

Still looking for an extra crank pulley. The syncro is officially titled, so I would like to get this going. 
Anyone have an "extra" crank pulley for sale/donation? as soon as I get one I can have the oversized 8 rib pulleys made.....
And will also need a test mule....


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## spooln6 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (windsor96vr6)*

I am working on one for my c2 kit right now i am using a pinch roll to the charger pulley. I am going to use a 15# spring with an aircraft baring and I machined a aluminum roll that goes agents the pulley. If anyquestions askaway feel free to im me. 
Fritz



_Modified by spooln6 at 2:10 PM 8-23-2006_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (2.0-16v-scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.0-16v-scirocco* »_I am waiting to find out how all the cog pulleys fit that i made. If they work good, I will start taking orders.

Any Luck Allen?


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## ketch360 (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

what is the out come with the cog set up? I would be interested in the gears as long as they will apply to 24 valve vr-6.


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