# Do braided brake lines really make a difference?



## speacialkeay (May 26, 2002)

I recently upgraded my whole brake system with Zimmerman cross-drilled, front and back, Mintex brake pads and New demensions braided brake lines. I thought I would feel a significant difference in pedal feel and stopping power. The only thing I feel is robbed out of alot of money just to have cool looking rotors. I went through two bottles of brake fluid just to get all the air out of the lines so I don't think that would be the problem. Unless the type of brake lines I bought aren't any better than the factory ones.


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## [email protected] (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (speacialkeay)*

Absolutely! The first brake upgrade I ever did was more aggressive pads, stainless lines, and fluid. Braking distance was mostly improved by the pads, but the lines solved that mushy pedal feel. For the money, you can't do better. We have lines in stock. Drop me an email if you'd like me to get you some pricing.


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## fat biker (Feb 16, 2001)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (speacialkeay)*

When I upgraded to teflon/stainless lines, it was the only change (plus fresh fluid).
The improvement was quite signifigant, as in Oooohhh Baby!
firmer pedal, shorter pedal travel, shorter stops
I bought my hoses from SMC Products, they are Goodridge hose/fittings.
I have no experience with the ND hoses, so can't compare.
fat biker


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (fat biker)*

quote:[HR][/HR]When I upgraded to teflon/stainless lines, it was the only change (plus fresh fluid).... shorter stops ....[HR][/HR]​How can THAT be possible? Pad to rotor friction coefficient didn't change, tire to pavement friction coefficient didn't change, weight of vehicle didn't change ... maybe the stopping distance seemed shorter but there is no way just changing lines and fluid will affect stopping distance (unless the old lines had a REALLY big leak







and/or the fluid was completely waterlogged).
*modified for spelling corrections


[Modified by f1forkvr6, 10:51 AM 10-25-2002]


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## OKlier (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (f1forkvr6)*

Well the only way I can explain it is that the ssb lines do not flex as much so more of the force is transfered to the caliper. More pressure from the pads to the rotor. Youre correct about the coefficient of friction not changeing but the energy transfer does.
Oh and I did notice a firmer pedal with the ssb lines. As for stopping distance im sure they only provide a few feet (but sometimes that enough to save your life).
Cheers!










[Modified by OKlier, 6:24 PM 10-25-2002]


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## GTi Dancer (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (OKlier)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Well the only way I can explain it is that the ssb lines do not flex as much so more of the force is transfered to the caliper. More pressure from the pads to the rotor. Youre correct about the coefficient of friction not changeing but the energy transfer does.
Oh and I did notice a firmer pedal with the ssb lines. As for stopping distance im sure they only provide a few feet (but sometimes that enough to save your life).
][HR][/HR]​I would like to see someone do a real test of ss lines. This would require first bleeding the entire system with fresh fluid(before installing the lines) test drive, then intall lines and repeat bleeding/test driving. 
I have a feeling that the biggest difference that most people feel is that of having properly bled brakes not of having stiffer lines.
Brake lines are usually only replaced as part of a package upgrade making it difficult to tell which part of the package affected feel and performance.
The lines themselves can not improve stopping power. Lines+ something else(pads, rotors--not cross drilled(these do not add stopping performance), or new brake fluid.) might improve braking performance.
There is a very good article in Grassroots Motorsports magazine about a year or so ago about stopping power.....The conclusion, the stopping power of a car is really only related to the coefficient of friction created between a tire and the surface it is riding on and the weight of the vehicle that rests on each contact patch........Now, as for repeated stopping, the main factor is being able to tranfer kinetic energy into heat--bigger brakes can transfer heat faster and so under repeated braking, the acheived friction of the brake pad has a higher threshold(in amount of energy transfered per unit of time) than a small brake setup........Then of course, if you heat cycle long enough with big enough brakes, the weak link becomes the tires which heat up and the coefficeint of friction changes at some point it starts decreasing and the stoppng distances increase again.....


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (GTi Dancer)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Threatening you with logic[HR][/HR]​Perfect. Thanks for helping me stop the maddness (or needless hype)


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## OKlier (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (f1forkvr6)*

Hmm...well I guess it makes you wonder why they put them on race cars








Cheers!


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## Blitzkrieg (Mar 19, 2000)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (speacialkeay)*

quote:[HR][/HR]...with Zimmerman cross-drilled, front and back, Mintex brake pads and New demensions braided brake lines.[HR][/HR]​I almost went a similar route, but decided not too for fear of the same thing... I'd just end-up with cooler looking rotors and a big hole in my wallet







The way I see it, cross-drilled rotors aren't likely going to decrease your stopping distance by much 'cause you now have less surface area than you did before. Sure, they may help disappate heat if you're racing and perhaps aid in cleaning debris off the pad surface, but I still question if they actually benefit the average driver much as far as stopping distance is concerned.
As a result if this "thinking" (flawed or not, I don't know), I decided that if I was going to blow money on brakes, I was going to go bigger... like with an Audi TT-conversion kit (from 11.3" to 12.3" front rotors.) However, I read a review in European Car pertaining to these brakes, and their overall stopping distance wasn't dramatically improved... and the unsprung weight of each front wheel was increased by several pounds (not good in my opinion.) So, I finally opted for the RPI 13" rotor kit... it's bigger, it's lighter, and it looks cool







No, this kit isn't for everyone, but I'm glad I spent my money on this kit 'cause. I haven't done any testing to prove that these brakes work much better than OEM, but they sure as h#ll feel like they do!!! (Now I worry more about the guy behind me not being able to stop as fast as I can!)


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## GTi Dancer (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (OKlier)*



> Hmm...well I guess it makes you wonder why they put them on race cars
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## OKlier (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (GTi Dancer)*

I guess I should had stated that my statement was rhetorical







. However I bet that most of the people here appreciate the knowledge that you bring.
Cheers!


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## fat biker (Feb 16, 2001)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (f1forkvr6)*

"How can THAT be possible?"
Simple really - teflon/stainless hoses expand less under pressure, so the energy that the stock rubber hoses waisted (expansion) is now applied to stopping the car.
The "old" fluid was Castrol LMA, about one year old - still serviceable.
fat biker


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## GTi Dancer (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (fat biker)*

Squishy or not, with the same input force, output force will be the same. However, under the same input forces, the lines that expand less will translate into a shorter pedal stroke. 300lbs of force at the pedal will create the same amount of force at the pad/disc interface unless you change the diameter of your MC bore or your Caliper bore. Has nothing to do with lines. The only FORCE lost with rubber lines is theequal to the amount of heat generated by the expansion of the line under pressure. This will be infintessimally small (you dont have to beleive me if you dont want, so go do an experiment in your driveway: With cold brakes, get in car, start motor, place in neutral with parking brake on, pump brakes as many times as you like(100-1000) and then get out of the car and immediately grab flexible brake line---if lots of energy is lost, the line should be hot--It wont be--very little energy is lost.......


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## fat biker (Feb 16, 2001)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (GTi Dancer)*

You make an interesting argument about the brake hose heating.
I just thought of an interesting experiment;
measure the outside diameter of a rubber brake hose at rest
apply full brake pressure, measure the diameter again
Too bad I don't own a dial caliper...
fat biker


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## davreid (Jul 28, 2001)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (GTi Dancer)*

I did the StageII brake upgrade from ECS. I like the feel and functionality of the system. I would undoubtedly do it again. I just wish the ECS boys would hurry and get the Rear StageII released. Are you “listening” Tom/Paul? 
As far as this SS Braided line controversy goes… I like the safety and appeal of the lines. Braided lines resist expansion, strengthen the line, protect against cutting from FOD, and plain out look great.
Most people that look at my upgrade say “Cool, braided lines.” Not one has ever started a diatribe on the qualities they offer. 
GTI Dancer
It is obvious that you are not the average user on the Vortex. It’s a pleasure reading your threads. Somewhere, someone taught you how to properly use the English language. There are a couple of questions you could answer for me.
1.	What do you do for a living?
2.	How long have you been involved in the”Modding” scene?
3.	Can you please space out your longer paragraphs for ease of reading? When they are a solid block of text, this format makes it difficult for my old eyes.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (davreid)*

quote:[HR][/HR]As far as this SS Braided line controversy goes … [HR][/HR]​No controversy ... Teflon/SS braided lines offer much better pedal feel and can improve modulation compared to regular rubber lines -- both very desirable attributes.
What they don't do is shorten stopping distances.


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## bxr140 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (speacialkeay)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I recently upgraded my whole brake system with Zimmerman cross-drilled, front and back, Mintex brake pads and New demensions braided brake lines. I thought I would feel a significant difference in pedal feel and stopping power. The only thing I feel is robbed out of alot of money just to have cool looking rotors.[HR][/HR]​Becasue thats exactly what you bought. Two things are working against you. One, the pads. They are stock REPLACEMENTS, not stock UPGRADES. They are by far a performance oriented pad, contrary to the vortex-driven myth. The FIRST upgrade anyone should do to their brake system (assumiung the fluid is replaced during the proper intervals) is brake pads. And we're not talking mintex redbox or PBR metalmasters here...without this becoming an endless "use this pad, not this pad" thread, the general price range of a real set of street performance pads will be $70-100. Thats for four pads, not all 8, for the record. Many people suggest sticking with a stock type rear pad like OEM, redbox, pagid, etc., to keep the rears from locking, up, but at least from my experneice with my corrado's, a high performance rear pad set will not adversely affect brake bias, assuming equivalent pads are used on the front. For other models, the rear proportioning valve may or may not need a slight adjustment. Not sure. For 99% of the people here, that will max out the car's braking potential, assuming a normal set of street performance tires. 
Second, drilled rotors are for LOOKS ONLY on a VW. YES, they do perform THEORETICALLY better than stock rotors, at EXTREME temperatures, but you will NOT be able to get your brakes that hot. BTDT, with the non-fading ORANGE hot glowing rotors to prove it. Under normal circumstances, they do nothing to decrease, and in some instances actually INCREASE braking distances because they're initially colder, and have less pad contact area.
Stainless lines, as suggested earlier, are used for feel more than anything else on our cars. Actually, as the fluid/lines gets hot, the stainless lines will *potentially* help with pedal consistency (rubber expands easier/more when hot) although IMHO, the jury is still out on that one. As suggested earlier, very few people do before/after comparos with FRESH fluid on the "before" setup. I
In addition, an argument can be made that SS lines, at least the ones with exposed braids, are *more* dangerous than rubber lines...dirt can get stuck in the braids, and the constant bending and twisting of the lines can cause that dirt to abrade the inner brake line, causing it to break. Don't know how much i buy that one either though. I think thats why DOT doesn't approve the ones with exposed braids.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (bxr140)*

quote:[HR][/HR]In addition, an argument can be made that SS lines, at least the ones with exposed braids, are *more* dangerous than rubber lines...dirt can get stuck in the braids, and the constant bending and twisting of the lines can cause that dirt to abrade the inner brake line, causing it to break. Don't know how much i buy that one either though. I think thats why DOT doesn't approve the ones with exposed braids. [HR][/HR]​I was originally going to bring this point up as well, but the way this thread was going I didn't want to add additional fuel to the fire ....


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## ..gli..heaven (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (f1forkvr6)*

I think that the soft rubber hose image is misleading, cut one in half and you will find several layers and materials.


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## 2.0LGtiPwr (Mar 23, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (..gli..heaven)*

Rather than start my own post. I figure I might as well chime in on here.
I am thinking about getting new pads/ SS lines BUT am somewhat concerned on the feeling that I'm going to get from SS lines. I just recently drove a Lancer ES (rental) and even though it had rear drums ( and, I think, lacked ABS) the feel of the brake pedal was very abrupt. This was good as I never had to mash them to the floor for the car to stop but compared to my MKIV it was also quite annoying in the sense that there was ABSOLUTELY NO type of Intermediary point as where I could gradually brake w/o being borderline close to jerking the car. The travel of the pedal was sooo short that it became a chore to try and gradually brake.
Question I have is: Upon installation of SS lines will the "feeling" of the car actually begining to brake to the "feeling" of the car about to lunge forward be substancially reduced by pedal travel?


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (2.0LGtiPwr)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Question I have is: Upon installation of SS lines will the "feeling" of the car actually begining to brake to the "feeling" of the car about to lunge forward be substancially reduced by pedal travel?[HR][/HR]​I doubt it -- the grabbiness you felt on the Mitsu was most likely caused by the coef. of friction of the Mitsu OEM pad material, and the level of boost used on that brake system. If the only thing you change on your vehicle is the lines, you'll notice subtle improvements in pedal feel, and brake modulation. Nothing dramatic.


[Modified by f1forkvr6, 5:28 PM 11-19-2002]


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## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (bxr140)*

"And we're not talking mintex redbox or PBR metalmasters here...without this becoming an endless 'use this pad, not this pad' thread, the general price range of a real set of street performance pads will be $70-100. Thats for four pads, not all 8 . . ."
I couldn't agree more with the sentiments expressed in this thread about the advantages (or lack thereof) of drilled rotors and braided lines, however, . . .
Where can one find "a real set of street performance pads"? All I see anywhere are the Mintex, Pagid, etc mentioned above.
Can anyone help me here? Remember, I'm in the middle of nowhere, with no "performance shops" to guide me.
Thanks.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (keycom)*

Here's a start:
http://www.parts4vws.com/
http://www.gprparts.com/
http://www.tirerack.com/


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## bxr140 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (keycom)*

[QUOTEWhere can one find "a real set of street performance pads[/QUOTE]
you can get ferodos from lots of places, including potterman. you can get porterfields straight through them (www.porterfield-brakes.com) and you can get mintex c-tech from just about anyone that sells mintex pads, including adirondack.


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## speedgator (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (GTi Dancer)*

So...I shouldn't waste my money on SS lines and Mintex Red pads? Stay with stock seems to be the sentiment, or go all out and get something from Wilwood or ECS, quite expensive. I thought a good in-between/step up would have been to install aforementioned parts.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (speedgator)*

The most effective brake upgrade for daily drivers is to flush the system regularly and upgrade the pads. Go with a fast STREET compound, like the Ferodo Fast Road Pad (DS2500 I think), Hawk HPS, Porterfield R4S, etc .... any of these will stand up to auto-x and light track use.
Stay away from true RACE pads for street use. They will be noisy, will not work well when cold, and will chew through your rotors.


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## bxr140 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (speedgator)*

quote:[HR][/HR]So...I shouldn't waste my money on SS lines and Mintex Red pads? Stay with stock seems to be the sentiment, or go all out and get something from Wilwood or ECS, quite expensive. I thought a good in-between/step up would have been to install aforementioned parts.







[HR][/HR]​its not your fault. with the explosion of the VW online community in the past few years came a increase in false information passed on. eventually people hear the same false information from so many different people that it becomes accepted (and then passed on) as correct information. 
you list SS lines and redbox pads together, inferring that the would be a performance upgrade for you, correct? (if not, please say so) i dont know where you are basing this information, but if that is indeed what youre trying to say, understand that the redbox pads are NOT a performance upgrade. they are comparable to stock pads, give or take on various specific characteristics. SS lines are gernerally considered an upgrade as well, and while there certianly is merit in that statement, for all but the most extreme of braking, you will find very little difference between stock lines and SS lines, assuming the lines and brake fluid are in decent condition.
big "all out" brake setups (or even just fancy rotors), while certianly very cool looking, aren't much more than that in a practical sense. on a stock setup with good street performance pads, the tires will usually be the limiting factor in braking performance. more braking power at the rotor isnt going to give your tire any more traction at the limits of its adhesion. fade resistance is also a big justification for buying big brakes or fancy rotors, but i would bet money that the outgoing brake setup for these cars was not optimized with a TRUE street performance pad. again, for the record, with stock rotors and porterfield pads, i've had ALL FOUR rotors glowing BRIGHT ORANGE with NO FADE on my corrado. 
***note that some base models (i.e., smaller brakes than the premium model) may not be included in this group, in which case, a brake upgrade (even to the premium model's brakes) may produce genuinely positive results. 
staying with stock is NOT the 'sentiment' here, unless you've never found the stock system to be sub-par in the first place. the message *I* am trying to convey is for a perforamnce upgrade, the best, and usually last upgrade you need to make is the pads. all the fancy rotors and all the fancy calipers in the world wont change the fact that if you have crappy pads, you'll have crappy braking. 
consider the source and details of the information you are being given when it comes to performance upgrades. for instance, someone might upgrade to big ass 2-piece rotors and big multi-piston calipers, and say you NEED to upgrade your system to that, becuase their old stock sized drilled rotors and mintex redbox pads paled in comparison to the new setup. the person might even have hard numbers to support his statement. well, of course thats true! not only is there the whole redbox not-quite-performance pad issue, (i'm not about to get into fancy rotors), but also consider that along with the new brake setup, bigger wheels with bigger and stickier tires were probably added. not only is it not a fair comparison, its results mean absolutely sqat, other than the fact that the car looks cooler. 
i'll stop, for now...


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## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (bxr140)*

Thanks fellas. Now that the suspension is in (Eibach Pro System +), I have the winter to learn how to use it.
Come spring I'll be ready for new rubber and pads (maybe rotors too).
Once I have learned to turn and stop, I'll be ready to be chipped.


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## speedgator (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (bxr140)*

So Mintex are a race compound? 
What I mean by SS lines and Mintex pads as an upgrade, I don't mean performance, I just understand them to be better quality parts/parts that will hold up better under extreme conditions.
I live in South Florida where we get a lot of heat and rain. I would think these are bad elements for brakes. 
So, what would be a good set of pads? From what I see, just keep the stock lines and use ATE fluid. Correct me if I'm wrong please. Don't stop, keep the good info coming this way, as you can see I'm misinformed.


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## speedgator (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (speedgator)*

Read another post, to quote:
"Redbox are a decent, inexpensive, lower dust pad that offers stock levels of performance. Higher performance pads will cost a bit more ($75 - $125 for the fronts) ... look for Ferodo, Porterfield, Hawk, Pagid STREET pads (not race pads)."
posted by f1forkvr6 on another thread
Now a good question is, when approximately should I replace my stock pads?


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## Blitzkrieg (Mar 19, 2000)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (speedgator)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Now a good question is, when approximately should I replace my stock pads?[HR][/HR]​When you get sick of cleaning your wheels every day 'cause of all the dust!







I got rid of my stock pads for Mintecs about a week after I got my car 'cause the dust was so bad ('97 GTI VR6.) Now I have bigger brakes and whatever pads came with them are dust-as-h#ll again


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (Blitzkrieg)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Now a good question is, when approximately should I replace my stock pads?
When you get sick of cleaning your wheels every day 'cause of all the dust!







I got rid of my stock pads for Mintecs about a week after I got my car 'cause the dust was so bad ('97 GTI VR6.) Now I have bigger brakes and whatever pads came with them are dust-as-h#ll again







[HR][/HR]​Performance pads will ALL throw dust. It's one of the tradeoffs for improved braking.


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## bxr140 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (speedgator)*

quote:[HR][/HR]So Mintex are a race compound? [HR][/HR]​mintex makes more than one compound. their redbox pads are the ones you hear about most, and are STOCK EQUIVALENT pads. the c-tech is their high performance street pad, and while i haven't used them personally, rumor has it they work well. 
quote:[HR][/HR]What I mean by SS lines and Mintex pads as an upgrade, I don't mean performance, I just understand them to be better quality parts/parts that will hold up better under extreme conditions. [HR][/HR]​the pads are NOT better quality than the stock stuff. again, thats vortex fueled mis-information. 
i still personally am undecided on SS lines, but my gut feeling tells me they realy WONT do much in reality, although i do believe they will not to any harm in reality either. quality is actually probably better for the most part with stock lines, as aftermarket parts (at least the cheaper ones) tend to be of lesser quality. that won't hold true all the time, of course, but its something to consider.
unless youre tracking your car, the difference between the two (all else equal of course, and new standard lines considered) will be negligible. if your stock lines are old, or look like theyre in bad shape however, that of course makes it easy to justify replacing the brake lines. on a ~10 year old car, SS lines will usually make a noticible improvement over the 10 year old stock lines, but its tough to say if brand new standard lines wouldnt make the same improvement. make sense?
the problem is that nobody really has the time/patience/desire to do UNBIASED, OBJECTIVE, SINGLE VARIABLE back to back reviews of individual components, so many times "performance" part upgrades often get mis-represented at just how much of an "upgrade" thy provide. its unreasonable to think some dude is going to change one component at a time to get back to backs when there is 5 or 6 total components to change, and a company that sells upgrades is certainly going to do as much fudging and mis-direction as possible to represent their product in the best way possible. 
quote:[HR][/HR]So, what would be a good set of pads? From what I see, just keep the stock lines and use ATE fluid. [HR][/HR]​ATE isnt the only high performance fluid out there, and there are certainly fluids that work just as well at half the price. i do personally prefer ATE blue/gold due to the idiot-proof bleeding nature. pads? see the list that you posted. i agree with it except for the pagid pads. their street pad, at least the ones that are readily available around the VW community, are stock/redbox priced, and are stock/redbox equivalents. BTDT. they may make a high performance street compound that i dont know about of course...basically, to be safe on performance street pad selection, follow the general rule of thumb that you'll be spending roughly $80-120 for each set of 4 pads.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (bxr140)*

This article should be required reading for everyone participating in the brake forum:
http://scirocco.dyndns.org/faq/brakes/pulpfriction/pfpage1.html


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## speedgator (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (f1forkvr6)*

Excellent info from an engineer in the related field. Thank you all!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bxr140 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (f1forkvr6)*

sigh. that would have saved me a bunch of babbling. 
if you read the article with an open mind, and understand the entire message (i.e., some statements could be misleading without the surrounding informatin) the article is right on.


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## speedgator (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (bxr140)*

Thank you for "babbling" I feel I'm well informed now and appreciate your time, effort and knowledge as well as other people in this thread that have taken the initiative to educate other people (such as myself).
Much appreciated.


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## bxr140 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (speedgator)*

no worries. i've been doing this VW online community thing for 7 years now, and have learned SOOOO much, especially considering i didnt know squat about cars when i started. in that time i've said some things i shouldnt have, and i've reccomended things that were incorrect, but the whole time i was learning more and more about me and my cars. i've learned how to filter information, what opionions to trust, what opininons to ignore, and that false and/or misleading information can spread like wildfire...if you havent guessed, that's a pet peeve of mine.
on the other hand though, there's no one right answer for anything, as the motivations and goals of individuals are widely varied. for some poeople, the right answer to the brake question is 'all stock components', and for others its 'big ass 13" brakes and 6-pot calipers'. you've got to take and filter the reccomendations you've gotten and make the best descision for YOUR car. my only goal is to make sure you base that descision on sound information, not 'urban legend' or heresay.
ben


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## speedgator (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (bxr140)*

After reading much, I've come to the following conclusion: what suits ME is to stay stock until components need to be replaced. At that point I will indeed go with SS lines (I'm looking at ones with heatshrink on them) and better pads (Mintex C-Tech seem fine). That's what suits ME as I don't plan to AutoX, I just want reliable parts for spirited driving. If at some point I find myself with a wad of loose cash burning a hole in my pocket then I will go for a complete kit and thus reduce my unsprung weight as well to boot.
Once again, thanks for all your helpful and insightful information Ben, and f1.
-Carlos.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (speedgator)*

quote:[HR][/HR]After reading much, I've come to the following conclusion: what suits ME is to stay stock until components need to be replaced.[HR][/HR]​Me too ... every repair offers the potential for improved performance. Because my Passat is my daily driver, I'm not compelled to replace perfectly functioning parts "just because I gotta have the worlds greatest new widgit bolted on right now".
Now if only my stock exhaust would develop a leak -- hello TT cat back








Who'd have guessed the stock Passat exhaust would last almost 6 years, with 5 New England winters and 184k miles?
Good luck with whatever your next repair/upgrade may be. Cheers







.


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## GTi Dancer (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (f1forkvr6)*

Thanks for helping me out here guys---f1 ben----


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## speedgator (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (f1forkvr6)*

Much agreed f1, as the years/miles pile on my car will get better parts







. Also, sorry for not mentioning you prior GTi, your input was also extremely helpful.


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## Strider (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (speedgator)*

OK so all these smaller hardly visited forums is were all the smart people hang out. This was a great thread. I recently saw the ECS Stage II kits and began to get really excited. I do plan to AutoX and I would also like to track my car. I need to go back and re read this thing to be sure I do the right thing in the braking department, unless a large wad falls in my lap and I can get the ECS SII with the CORRECT pads. I try to go for the best parts in the real world but I also have a soft spot for the cool looking stuff







sue me HEH.


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## bluevr6 (Apr 19, 2000)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (Strider Turbo)*

Strider:
Remember, add brake upgrade, go striaght to prepard or mod...., no SP and no STS / STX for you.
If you plan to auto-x, read the rule book and see what it does to your classing prior to making a change.
Best regards,
Kevin
(autocrossing the same GTI VR6 for 5 years now)
1998 GTI VR6 (GS autocrosser) Remember, Stock isn't necessarily the way it came from the dealer.


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## bluevr6 (Apr 19, 2000)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (speedgator)*

[snip]and better pads (Mintex C-Tech seem fine). [snip]
Carlos:
There are several compounds of the C-Tech pads.
Go to http://www.autotech.com to read about the 3 compounds they carry before just asking for C-Tech pads.
Best Regards,
Kevin


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## speedgator (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: Do braided brake lines really make a difference? (bluevr6)*

I saw that Kevin, thanks for making a point of it though. To my knowledge, only one of the C-Tech compounds is for street use though. M1144 is for street. M1155, M1166 and M1177 are for track use.
This info straight from their website: http://www.mintex.co.uk/index.html 
Good call Kevin. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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