# cam and crank sensors and standalone EMS



## jk35 (Sep 1, 2008)

I've read that the missing teeth on our 60-2 wheel are 14dbtdc. 14 degrees from the missing teeth to TDC is confusing me. is it 14 degrees from the center of the missing teeth? or 14 degrees from the rising edge of tooth # 45, from the falling edge of tooth #46?????
I am having a devil of a time setting up my AEM. I had the new build running on the factory ECU, then I got it to run on the AEM only (too lean) on an altered cal file from a DSM, but now that I'm trying to create my own configurations, I can't even get it to sync the cam and crank signals!
The 3 wires that go to the crank sensor are BLACK, BLUE and GREY. Black is ground, blue and grey both go to the motronic ECU (which I no longer have.)
Does anyone know what exactly the grey and blue wires are (which is sensor signal, etc...)
I replaced the black wire with SENSOR GROUND from the AEM, and am connected to the blue one for "SENSOR SIGNAL"
I only have two wires out for a VR sensor, sensor ground and sensor signal...
I'm wondering if that black wire wasn't simply the shielding and perhaps the blue and grey which went to the Motron were signal and ground???
THe AEM's instructions call for shielded twisted pair which I have, but the schematic has me grounded together at the ECU for the shielding of the cam sensor twisted pair, the VSS twisted pr. and the crank sensor twisted pair. I got new timer pins from Pete at IE and crimped up a new factory connector to the end of my Tefzel harness which ends at the grey plug... f someone could confirm which wire does exactly what, I'd surely appreciate it, as that would eliminate a couple of variables from my troubleshooting list.
I realize no one here uses AEM, but it does the same thing as all the rest It takes sensor input and calculates when to squirt and when to spark. trouble is, without usable, SYNCED signals it will NOT ALLOW any squirting or sparking, and that is where my problem lies!
I have the option of selecting hall, magnetic or HIGH sensitivity magnetic for any sensor (cam/crank/VSS/Spare) I thought the VR sensor would be mag as everything I have read suggested, but at cranking speeds, there is such a small voltage signal, that I really doubt the EMS could read it without the pullup being applied. 
I also have settings for what RPMs a signal shall be treated as high or low snsitivity. the default entries for the crank are: HIGH SENSITIVITY BELOW 2000rpms and LOW SENSITIVITY ABOVE 1900rpms. Does this sound right?
One more thing: My EMS has the ability to display oscilloscope traces from all of the speed sensor inputs, but I don't know how to read it/what it means. can anyone give me a brief explaination of what I should be looking for?


----------



## jk35 (Sep 1, 2008)

*Re: cam and crank sensors and standalone EMS (jk35)*

In my tuning software in the area of cam/crank sensors, The option "MX Sync Test" is where you tell the EMS what count value to use as a reference as the EMS does not do this automatically. the setup wizard automatically puts "tooth #57" for this synchronization between crank wheel and cam sensor, but on the graph display of the cam wheel, it shows that this tooth position is the end of the MISSING TEETH position. 
If it is trying to call the missing teeth the place to sync with the significant event of the cam sensor, then something must be incorrect (right????







)
If anyone here is capable of figuring this out, just tell me what you need to see and I'll start snapping screenshots! -I really need some help with this, and all AEM can tell me is to "find a local AEMtuner" which unfortunately, there are none. the closest are a 3 hr drive from me and refuse to touch the car until it is running on it's own


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: cam and crank sensors and standalone EMS (jk35)*

On a VW (or Audi) 1.8T the crank sensor is on the 14th tooth when the engine is at TDC.

_Quote, originally posted by *jk35* »_
all AEM can tell me is to "find a local AEMtuner" which unfortunately, there are none. the closest are a 3 hr drive from me and refuse to touch the car until it is running on it's own









Biggest reason I'll NEVER touch another AEM EMS. That and the tuning software is garbage.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: cam and crank sensors and standalone EMS (Prof315)*

On the crank sensor you have signal+, signal- and a shield connection. If you're not getting sync, you can try and swap the signal+ and signal- wires.


----------



## jk35 (Sep 1, 2008)

*Re: cam and crank sensors and standalone EMS (need_a_VR6)*

I have "Stat Sync'd" and the timing light shows the same thing as the ign. timing in the software, I had to update my Wizards to get the BMW/Porsche 60-2 crank/cam sensor. I've got it selected, and when I bring up my dashboard, turn the key on, it comes online, fuel pumps prime, and I see "STAT SYNC'd" go on once I crank the motor over.
I proceeded with the next step in the UserGuide, a timing light indicates that the 10.07 degrees the Ign. Timing is set on, is accurate.
activate all injectors, and it sounds like it WANTS to crank, and then after every 4-5seconds of cranking, it has a hard time making a revolution and then backfires out the exhaust, so... I'm thinking phasing is not right???
Also, once I select the "BMW/Porsche 60-2", I get a number of configurations that don't make sense to me. I try to change these, and the 60-2 wheel looses it's green checkmark, and I am no longer STAT SYNC'd.
How can I have 24 fuel teeth and 24 spark teeth with a 60-2 wheel?
MX sync test sets at 57 teeth. is that where it is looking for the sync with the cam sensor?
My cam sensor is one tooth (window) hall sensor, the falling edge passes the magnets at TDC.
Also, in my options I have
Crank = FALLING EDGE
CAM = FALLING EDGE
then there is a "T4" that the Wizard has selected. I can't find ANYTHING about this??? of course any search for "T4" brings up everything that has ever been written about T4 turbos! LOL!
The Phasing for both injectors and ignition seem to be way out of whack. I have compared to the startup file for the S2000, as it has Seq. COP ignition, SEQ. injection, has the same firing order, is about the same displacement... -very similar architecture to my Audi. I am wired to fire 1-2-3-4 off the AEM EMS and CDI, because #1(coil and injector outputs) go to the 1st coil/injector in my firing order; #2 outputs go to the 2nd coil/inj. ; #3 outputs go to the 3rd; and #4 outputs go to the 4th. I am noticing on many various startup files, that outputs 1-2-3 and 4 don't necessarily get used this way, or get used at all Inj. output #5 might be firing injector #1 and so forth, so comparing andconverting hasn't proven very beneficial, except I see correlations between injector and ignition phasing and the sensor wheels used -vs mine which don't jive.
I cannot find anything on phasing that has helped me to figure this out. I read that injector phasing is the timing at which the injector sprays. and that we want to spray once the intake valves begin to open. the next sentence in the EFI Basics V1.3.doc says "The AEM PEMS calculates iming relative to the TDC SPARK EVENT which is 180 degrees + timing prior to the TDC overlap event
SO, which controls what?
when I change my timing, I don't see the phasing numbers change. when I change my phasing, I don't see timing change.
Hypothetically, It would seem to me that I need to phase injection and ignition 15 teeth apart since I have a 60-2 wheel, -that doesn't work out so well, doing this, the backfire out of the exhaust every 3-4 seconds gets worse. what was a short hesitation and a small pop becomes a bigger hesitation and a loud backfire.
all the plugs are loaded with fuel, #3 is black as coal (wipes right off) and #4 has some of the same black sooty residue, but not nearly as much as #3.
#1 and #2 plugs are clean as when I installed 'em 2 days ago, but they are wet with fuel.


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: cam and crank sensors and standalone EMS (jk35)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jk35* »_activate all injectors, and it sounds like it WANTS to crank, and then after every 4-5seconds of cranking, it has a hard time making a revolution and then backfires out the exhaust, so... I'm thinking phasing is not right???

no joke, check your plug wires, when i did a megasquirt install i thought i effed it up pretty bad and couldn't get the car started for close to two months, tinkering every weekend, it would crank over and then seem to bind up and i would get strange backfires. i nearly gave up and scrapped the whole entire project but it turned out it was the most basic thing, i had accidentally put the plug wires on in reverse firing order.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: cam and crank sensors and standalone EMS (L33t A2)*

I agree with the above check. Also, when it goes to slow cranking unplug the fuel pump relay and floor it and see if it clears up. If it does it's just loading up on fuel during it trying to start.


----------



## jk35 (Sep 1, 2008)

*Re: cam and crank sensors and standalone EMS (need_a_VR6)*

I have "Stat Sync'd" and the timing light shows the same thing as the ign. timing in the software, I had to update my Wizards to get the BMW/Porsche 60-2 crank/cam sensor. I've got it selected, and when I bring up my dashboard, turn the key on, it comes online, fuel pumps prime, and I see "STAT SYNC'd" go on once I crank the motor over.
I proceeded with the next step in the UserGuide, a timing light indicates that the 10.07 degrees the Ign. Timing is set on, is accurate.
activate all injectors, and it sounds like it WANTS to crank, and then after every 4-5seconds of cranking, it has a hard time making a revolution and then backfires out the exhaust, so... I'm thinking phasing is not right???
Also, once I select the "BMW/Porsche 60-2", I get a number of configurations that don't make sense to me. I try to change these, and the 60-2 wheel looses it's green checkmark, and I am no longer STAT SYNC'd.
How can I have 24 fuel teeth and 24 spark teeth with a 60-2 wheel?
MX sync test sets at 57 teeth. is that where it is looking for the sync with the cam sensor?
My cam sensor is one tooth (window) hall sensor, the falling edge passes the magnets at TDC.
Also, in my options I have
Crank = FALLING EDGE
CAM = FALLING EDGE
then there is a "T4" that the Wizard has selected. I can't find ANYTHING about this??? of course any search for "T4" brings up everything that has ever been written about T4 turbos! LOL!
The Phasing for both injectors and ignition seem to be way out of whack. I have compared to the startup file for the S2000, as it has Seq. COP ignition, SEQ. injection, has the same firing order, is about the same displacement... -very similar architecture to my Audi. I am wired to fire 1-2-3-4 off the AEM EMS and CDI, because #1(coil and injector outputs) go to the 1st coil/injector in my firing order; #2 outputs go to the 2nd coil/inj. ; #3 outputs go to the 3rd; and #4 outputs go to the 4th. I am noticing on many various startup files, that outputs 1-2-3 and 4 don't necessarily get used this way, or get used at all Inj. output #5 might be firing injector #1 and so forth, so comparing andconverting hasn't proven very beneficial, except I see correlations between injector and ignition phasing and the sensor wheels used -vs mine which don't jive.
I cannot find anything on phasing that has helped me to figure this out. I read that injector phasing is the timing at which the injector sprays. and that we want to spray once the intake valves begin to open. the next sentence in the EFI Basics V1.3.doc says "The AEM PEMS calculates iming relative to the TDC SPARK EVENT which is 180 degrees + timing prior to the TDC overlap event
SO, which controls what?
when I change my timing, I don't see the phasing numbers change. when I change my phasing, I don't see timing change.
Hypothetically, It would seem to me that I need to phase injection and ignition 15 teeth apart since I have a 60-2 wheel, -that doesn't work out so well, doing this, the backfire out of the exhaust every 3-4 seconds gets worse. what was a short hesitation and a small pop becomes a bigger hesitation and a loud backfire.
all the plugs are loaded with fuel, #3 is black as coal (wipes right off) and #4 has some of the same black sooty residue, but not nearly as much as #3.
#1 and #2 plugs are clean as when I installed 'em 2 days ago, but they are wet with fuel.


----------

