# TFSI VL with K04 APR kit, Motor blown with 4000 miles



## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Pretty simple. Since day one was having issues and went through the diagnostic proceedure to resolve. Couple days later loud pop and loss of compression cylinder 1.

Needless to say I am doing a complete rebuild and sending my head and block out to determine the cause of the engine failure.

I am not pointing fingers yet but the car has only 40k on the engine and 4000 on the kit.

If I knew K04 could damage my motor I would have never have paid for a kit that would ultimately cost me 4k+ to fix a motor.

The only plus is I do all my own work. Once investigation is done on block and head to determine cause of failure I will post my findings directly from the engine shop in Philadelphia.

On the plus side. Forged and stroked kit coming. 2.2l TFSI VL. Why not.

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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Engine is out!









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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

So the problem we have here is a pretty broken piston.









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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

And didn't APR grenade your DSG a few times too? :facepalm:


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

There really does seem to be a pattern here don't it?

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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

GMPCompetitionTT said:


> There really does seem to be a pattern here don't it?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


Well the ring land failure is common with their tunes. #savetheringlands


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## Gotsol (Jan 25, 2007)

whoa! man, more problems for you? Sorry bro. good for you for building it back up. I'll be tuning in for updates


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## wkl5532 (Jun 2, 2016)

Well ****. I just purchased this kit and about to put it on. I was all excited and ****


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

wkl5532 said:


> Well ****. I just purchased this kit and about to put it on. I was all excited and ****


Tried warning you man.

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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Well might aswell make a project out of it. Have some downtime awaiting forged rods and pistons so figured I would start installing the suspension kit from Bilstein!









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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

034 MQB subframe inserts. I know mines an 8J but it shares the MQB rear subframe 









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## Evilevo (Apr 29, 2009)

wkl5532 said:


> Well ****. I just purchased this kit and about to put it on. I was all excited and ****


You'll be fine with the kit just get someone else to tune it, ie United Motorsports.


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Evilevo said:


> You'll be fine with the kit just get someone else to tune it, ie United Motorsports.


I second that opinion.

The biggest slap in the face from APR was when they found out my motor was blown after trying to datalog with them. I pulled the turbo and found shaft play, they told me to contact borgwarner for warranty. Not even a year old or 4000 miles on it.  such a slap in the face.

Borgwarner laughed since the APR turbo is so modified they said APR would habe to warranty it. So far 3 phone calls and not a single call back.. Just a big slap to the face. $4000 plus in APR equipment to have them blow me off. I am trying to give them a chance to right their wrongs but not a single [email protected] is given.

How can a company not even warranty their own products?

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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

You should have the injectors tested since a bad injector can lead to quick failure of the ringlands especially with OEM pistons.


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

hightechrdn said:


> You should have the injectors tested since a bad injector can lead to quick failure of the ringlands especially with OEM pistons.


Trust me I know but all my logs show fuel rail pressure fall slightly car runs lean and misfires.

APR said it was valve float which I believed. I trusted them with a very expensive piece of equipment and ultimately they left me hanging. You can't tell me v1.0 of anything is the best you offer when 8P cars are v2+ already.

I find it hard to believe the first of anything is without flaws.

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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

GMPCompetitionTT said:


> Trust me I know but all my logs show fuel rail pressure fall slightly car runs lean and misfires.
> 
> APR said it was valve float which I believed. I trusted them with a very expensive piece of equipment and ultimately they left me hanging. You can't tell me v1.0 of anything is the best you offer when 8P cars are v2+ already.
> 
> ...



I am not defending APR (nor am I out to get them). Sounds like the gave you some bad advice or an incorrect diagnosis at the very least. APR tunes have blown up more than one engine over the years. I can't say their tune did your piston in but it is certainly possible especially if they told you to keep driving it with the lean condition under heavy load/throttle.

No matter the APR tune, I would still have the injectors tested (or just replace them) to be sure you don't burn up another piston. Personally, I would find another tuning company as well. I can't see how one could have confidence in the current tune at this point.


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

hightechrdn said:


> I am not defending APR (nor am I out to get them). Sounds like the gave you some bad advice or an incorrect diagnosis at the very least. APR tunes have blown up more than one engine over the years. I can't say their tune did your piston in but it is certainly possible especially if they told you to keep driving it with the lean condition under heavy load/throttle.
> 
> No matter the APR tune, I would still have the injectors tested (or just replace them) to be sure you don't burn up another piston. Personally, I would find another tuning company as well. I can't see how one could have confidence in the current tune at this point.


I wouldn't be as pissed off really if they just warrantied their product. I am not making a huge stink about it with anyone and I just keep getting stone walled.

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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Also not sure if I was clear but the only really thing that is ticking me off is not warranting a turbo with shaft play after 4000 miles or less than 1 year.

I own a shop and I understand the rules when it comes to tuning. Am I pissed about the engine? Sure. Am I throwing all the blame at them? Not at all. Am I being a little too overdramatic about having them warranty a part of theirs while I am rebuilding my engine.
I really don't think so.

All my parts have a 2 year 24,000 mile warranty at my shop no matter the reason. Labor may not be covered past 6 months but I sure as hell honor my parts.

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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Forged JE pistons and Forged IE rods came in today. Pictures later really looking forward to getting my baby back up and running.

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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

MAJOR UPDATE!!!

Machine shop has concluded complete failure was due to piston to cylinder wall clearance.
Factory engine was overbored by .012" of an inch leaving the cylinder wall clearance well over the .004" max value of the factory engine specifications.

APR is not entirely to blame for the engine failure.

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## Ginovega (Jul 22, 2013)

Something went wrong with the build that's why the motor blew up.

Audi factory engine over bored ? Their technology is way pass that .:beer:

Get a good mech this time .:beer:


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## Brd.Prey (Oct 25, 2012)

I too have a problem believing the motor left the factory that way. I would sure check the measuring instruments 3 times before I started thinking the factory was making that kinda mistake.


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Ginovega said:


> Something went wrong with the build that's why the motor blew up.
> 
> Audi factory engine over bored ? Their technology is way pass that .
> 
> Get a good mech this time .


Audi would not sell me pistons since they are currently under class action suit for oil consumption issues which my vehicle had. Stating that the vehicle must be at their location and have an RO writen up for repairs at an Audi dealer in order to receive factory pistons. Not suspicious enough??? Machine shop and I both confirmed the numbers. The biggest piston was 007" undersized. The bore was exactly to spec.

I am my own mechanic.  

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## Ginovega (Jul 22, 2013)

So you are having oil consumption issues back when it was stock so you went go ahead and started building your car ?opcorn: or you are having oil consumption issues after you went K04 ?


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## Brd.Prey (Oct 25, 2012)

Ginovega said:


> So you are having oil consumption issues back when it was stock so you went go ahead and started building your car ?opcorn: or you are having oil consumption issues after you went K04 ?


I do not see where he said he had consumption issues? He said Audi would not sell him pistons because of Audi's problem with oil consumption


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Ginovega said:


> So you are having oil consumption issues back when it was stock so you went go ahead and started building your car ?opcorn: or you are having oil consumption issues after you went K04 ?


You are aware pistons are manufactured by Mahle outside of the Audi factory? Don't be so hardcore Audi is not so perfect and a subsidiary company is definitely not. The pistons are definitely under sized simple as that.

The tune might not be perfect but they are not 100% to blame for engine failure.

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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Pistons and rods are in, head and valve covers on and will have pictures tomorrow. Just looking forward to getting this over with. I want to drive my baby again.









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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Almost there. Cleaning and prepping everything for final assembly.









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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Up and running! You guys will be the first to know if my misfire issue is still there.









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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

So after a few hundred miles into the new motor. Still having issues and they are of the exact same nature. Leaning out and misfiring. I am changing the fuel filter to give APR the benefit of the doubt but at this point APR has some work to do on getting some updated software for the CETA engine.

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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Fuel filter changed with no positive results.

I got a message from APR and I am just about over it.

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## Brd.Prey (Oct 25, 2012)

Ridiculous, who actually though a fuel filter with that many miles was the problem. You could have disproved that with logs of LP fuel and HP fuel. They are a APR Support=Joke.


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Brd.Prey said:


> Ridiculous, who actually though a fuel filter with that many miles was the problem. You could have disproved that with logs of LP fuel and HP fuel. They are a APR Support=Joke.


I am at a loss at this point between blowing the motor and then this.

Hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel because yesterday I went off on the support guy.

How hard is it to write a slightly different file. I can upload it with my dealer log in same day.

I have a hard time believing APTuning has these issues with them.

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## Luxferro (Dec 31, 2015)

Maybe you should switch to something other than APR...


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

UM does custom maps now after years of no support and IE soon aswell. APR was the first to the table and their stage2 software brought to 12.4 1/4 times with a base model tt and bolt ons.

I can't completely knock them but their customer support is just killing me.

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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

GMPCompetitionTT said:


> UM does custom maps now after years of no support and IE soon aswell. APR was the first to the table and their stage2 software brought to 12.4 1/4 times with a base model tt and bolt ons.
> 
> I can't completely knock them but their customer support is just killing me.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


Yeah how could you completely knock them after an engine replacement and crappy code leading to the exact same problem...


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Yeah how could you completely knock them after an engine replacement and crappy code leading to the exact same problem...


 well played yeah I am trying to be nice. But nice is fading quickly.

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## Evilevo (Apr 29, 2009)

GMPCompetitionTT said:


> well played yeah I am trying to be nice. But nice is fading quickly.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


Just go with UM. 

My TTRS is with them right now, they are tuning the car for a Xona hybrid turbo 💪


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Evilevo said:


> Just go with UM.
> 
> My TTRS is with them right now, they are tuning the car for a Xona hybrid turbo 💪


Awesome we just spoke about going TTE480 on mine with a forged motor since now my engine is easily overbuilt for the K04. The TTE480 makes roughly 450whp safely on a stock motor (of course dependant on the software)

I will be selling my K04 next year and taking the plunge. They think with their dsg and engine software they can get it to 500whp with a turbo that is direct bolt on like a k04. Next year another project lol.

We have an addiction!

Can't wait to see you at next years QDM. I missed out this year.

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## Luxferro (Dec 31, 2015)

Evilevo said:


> Just go with UM.
> 
> My TTRS is with them right now, they are tuning the car for a Xona hybrid turbo 💪


Have they started the tuning process yet? Any news if they'd consider flex fuel system for it?

I'm the other guy with the Xona hybrid, and patiently waiting


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## Evilevo (Apr 29, 2009)

Luxferro said:


> Have they started the tuning process yet? Any news if they'd consider flex fuel system for it?
> 
> I'm the other guy with the Xona hybrid, and patiently waiting


I haven't talked to them since I dropped it off. I know Fred had said they had to finish a Corrado yesterday. I'm going to give them a shout tomorrow and see what's going on. 

As for Flexfuel, I don't think they were going to do that, I know Matt wanted to do it on a stock turbo car first.


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Pulled a couple more logs and fuel rail pressure actual and target are pretty vastly different. Typically the pressure should be slightly over requested. Everytime my car leans out the rail pressure is under requested. Calls for 16 bar and after 5k the best my lpfp can muster is 15.71 and it was worse before the filter change. 15.47 bar and major misfires. Now 15.71 and no major misfires. So we're close. 
What are your thoughts gentleman?

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## Evilevo (Apr 29, 2009)

GMPCompetitionTT said:


> Pulled a couple more logs and fuel rail pressure actual and target are pretty vastly different. Typically the pressure should be slightly over requested. Everytime my car leans out the rail pressure is under requested. Calls for 16 bar and after 5k the best my lpfp can muster is 15.71 and it was worse before the filter change. 15.47 bar and major misfires. Now 15.71 and no major misfires. So we're close.
> What are your thoughts gentleman?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


Do you have a higher flow HPFP already? Or done the TTRS lpfp conversion yet?


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Evilevo said:


> Do you have a higher flow HPFP already? Or done the TTRS lpfp conversion yet?


The HPFP on the TFSI VL is not upgradeable and capable of 165 bar. The TTRS lpfp is that much better? Definitely cheaper than the USP drop in one. I wonder if it is that much more in-depth of an install though.

Thank you for the idea. Definitely need to do some research.

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## Evilevo (Apr 29, 2009)

GMPCompetitionTT said:


> The HPFP on the TFSI VL is not upgradeable and capable of 165 bar. The TTRS lpfp is that much better? Definitely cheaper than the USP drop in one. I wonder if it is that much more in-depth of an install though.
> 
> Thank you for the idea. Definitely need to do some research.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


I know people convert to the TTRS lpfp and controller, I'll not sure how much of a difference it makes, but I think APR was recommending it.


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## Brd.Prey (Oct 25, 2012)

_Look up my thread I have a TTRS fuel pump and controller installed_ Talk to me dont go with the USP one! I also found a difference between the cheap spring low pressure regulators located in the filter!


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

GMPCompetitionTT said:


> The HPFP on the TFSI VL is not upgradeable and capable of 165 bar. The TTRS lpfp is that much better? Definitely cheaper than the USP drop in one. I wonder if it is that much more in-depth of an install though.
> 
> Thank you for the idea. Definitely need to do some research.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


I have a TTRS LPFP for sale with 500 or so miles on it if you're interested.


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

GMPCompetitionTT said:


> So after a few hundred miles into the new motor. Still having issues and they are of the exact same nature. Leaning out and misfiring. I am changing the fuel filter to give APR the benefit of the doubt but at this point APR has some work to do on getting some updated software for the CETA engine.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


So, any progress/updates? 

I would change to a different Tuning company asap before the rebuilt engine is damaged.

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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

hightechrdn said:


> So, any progress/updates?
> 
> I would change to a different Tuning company asap before the rebuilt engine is damaged.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Couple of things have changed lately. My car has been running much better but unfortunately overboosting slightly. After a reset of the wastegate the car is not leaning out at all anymore. Holds .81 lambda pretty constant but the tune is so restricted from the fuel issue that if I increase boost further to solve the overboost/throttle cuts it will run dangerously lean.

The APR tune is holding fine after the last 12 logs where the only issue is the occassional throttle cuts to keep boost from going over 23psi.

A custom tune will come but I need a serious fueling upgrade and afterwards I will be going to a much better turbo like the TTE480 or comparable.

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## rtbrjason (Jun 14, 2015)

GMPCompetitionTT said:


> Awesome we just spoke about going TTE480 on mine with a forged motor since now my engine is easily overbuilt for the K04. The TTE480 makes roughly 450whp safely on a stock motor (of course dependant on the software)


Is this to be a custom setup or is there a bolt on kit for this? I'm looking to upgrade the turbo in my 2011 TT and not found a whole lot other than the K04. I did consider the K04 but if I'm going to do it, I'd rather go bigger the first time as I've been down this turbo upgrade road on other cars in the past. The other thing I've noticed is there don't seem to be many reputable tuners in my area that do anything other than canned tune flashes.


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

rtbrjason said:


> Is this to be a custom setup or is there a bolt on kit for this? I'm looking to upgrade the turbo in my 2011 TT and not found a whole lot other than the K04. I did consider the K04 but if I'm going to do it, I'd rather go bigger the first time as I've been down this turbo upgrade road on other cars in the past. The other thing I've noticed is there don't seem to be many reputable tuners in my area that do anything other than canned tune flashes.


Tte480 is direct fit. Just needs software its a heavily modified k04 thats good to 480whp

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## rtbrjason (Jun 14, 2015)

GMPCompetitionTT said:


> Tte480 is direct fit. Just needs software its a heavily modified k04 thats good to 480whp
> 
> Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


Thanks. What route do you plan to take for software?


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

rtbrjason said:


> Thanks. What route do you plan to take for software?


United Motorsports is 3 hours away they definitely will be my first call. Their DSG software is the only one that truly increases clamping pressure and having a custom tuner so close is great.


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## Biler123 (Sep 2, 2017)

*Catch cans TT RS*

I know it's been a long time since you made this thread. I wonder if you have the opportunity to make a complete kit for TT RS? A kit with 2 tanks and all hoses / couplings so it becomes Bolt-on On TT RS.


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## Biler123 (Sep 2, 2017)

*APR tuned TT RS blown engine*



Biler123 said:


> It was sad to hear about your engine, which was APR tuned. I even intended to use APR, but now it will be another company!I know it's been a long time since you made this thread. I wonder if you have the opportunity to make a complete kit for TT RS? A kit with 2 tanks and all hoses / couplings so it becomes Bolt-on On TT RS.


I want to buy a kit from you.


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## wkl5532 (Jun 2, 2016)

Hi buddy did UM ever wrote a tune for yoU??? I sent over my ECU and requested a tune over a year zero deliver.... 2014 2.0 TFSI TT


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## oldtimerfahrt (Mar 20, 2013)

GMPCompetitionTT said:


> Well might aswell make a project out of it. Have some downtime awaiting forged rods and pistons so figured I would start installing the suspension kit from Bilstein!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where did you end up on your PSS10 suspension setup for ride height? I just installed same kit on my TT and am messing around with dialing in the height. Did you happen to measure stock height (center of wheels to fender)? And measure after? Can you provide measurements if you have.

Thanks!


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