# Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons



## WOB-JDR (Feb 16, 2008)

Here's the dilemma:
I have an '08 VW Jetta Wolfsburg Edition (2.0T mated to a DSG) with stock Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 no-seasons. They are absolutely terrible. Low amounts of traction and control in wet (and occasionally dry) tarmac, and as I found out today, basically no traction in light snow. What I want to do is buy winter tires-- Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D to fit my stock Classixs in 225/45R17 and use the MXM4s in summer.
My dad, on the other hand, wants to buy good all-seasons (Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position) and ditch (sell?) the MXM4s. He says that they'll be good enough for our winter and he doesn't want to deal with mounting and dismounting seasonally.
So, should I get the winter tires and hold onto the MXM4s for summer, or just run the all-seasons all year? The car is on a 3 year lease with max mileage of 36,000.
Thanks.








P.S. The MXM4 review for giggles: 
click 



_Modified by WOB-JDR at 6:48 PM 12-1-2008_


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (WOB-JDR)*

http://www.nokiantires.com. check out the nokian wr g2 all-weather plus. a year rounder that'll out perform your dunlop in the snow or if you really wanna kick its ars the hakka r, rsi, or 5. but hey what do i know... i'm all about safety.










_Modified by teutoned at 10:47 AM 12-4-2008_


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (WOB-JDR)*

go with snows for sure, run the life of the michelins and decide from there... running 2 sets of tires will strecth the life


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## Honda_Appliance (May 4, 2000)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (WOB-JDR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WOB-JDR* »_
My dad, on the other hand, wants to buy good all-seasons (Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position) and ditch (sell?) the MXM4s. He says that they'll be good enough for our winter and he doesn't want to deal with mounting and dismounting seasonally.


Sorry but an "ultra high performance all season" won't be any better in the snow than what you already have. It would be stupid to buy those. The right thing to do is get the snow tires and an extra set of wheels to mount them on.


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## Rassig (Feb 4, 2001)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (AutobahnTDI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutobahnTDI* »_Sorry but an "ultra high performance all season" won't be any better in the snow than what you already have. 

Not really... according to the Tire Rack user ratings, 
the Bridgestone 960 A/S user ratings for light snow, deep snow, & ice are almost 2x more than the Michelin Pilot MXM4.

_Quote, originally posted by *AutobahnTDI* »_The right thing to do is get the snow tires and an extra set of wheels to mount them on.

Would you get better snow grip with a dedicated winter tire? 
Of course you would. 
(and yes, you should get 'em mounted on some steelies)

But I did survive last winter doing a 36 mile one way commute out to the 'burbs with my 960 A/S Bridgestones. 
A related factor in that is when conditions are really bad, rush hour traffic moves so slow, 
it's not a real test of winter abilities. 
However, even though my alley is nevAR plowed, I didn't get stuck 
If you do a lot of winter driving, it would be a good idea to go with the snows... 
but I'd run a slightly narrower tire vs. your stock set up.
Also, I keep hearing about how less salt will be used this winter all around Chicago and the 'burbs given increased salt prices and decreased revenues for the city and 'burbs.


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (Rassig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rassig* »_
Not really... according to the Tire Rack user ratings, 
the Bridgestone 960 A/S user ratings for light snow, deep snow, & ice are almost 2x more than the Michelin Pilot MXM4.


Take TireRack ratings with a grain of salt... it is hard to determine WHO is rating the tires... someone who bought the cheapest tire they could find and are suprised that it works will review differently than someone who buys the most expensive tire and expects it to never break traction.... 
assuming the reviews for the tires in question are hundreds, and they still rate high, i wouldnt hesitate (myself), running a UHP A/S tire... a dedicated studless technology snow tire will be better, but often times not a necessity... i call out studless technology tires and refer to blizzak, xice, dunlop 3ds and other tires of the like, not a traditional winterforce or other cheapo tire... the winterforce for example, gripped WORSE than a bfgoodrich my store sold... we had a car (coworker) and a few steel wheels that fit, and did some blind testing with everyone in the shop and our parking lot (up to 35mph) and determined the traction t/a to be a better snow tire than the winterforce (subjectively, non scientific). that is reason enough to reconsider a cheapo snow tire compared to the 960...
back to the point, take the reviews lightly, and dont expect an 8.6/10 in the snow... if you can afford the snows, buy them... you already have tires for the other 3 seasons... wear them out and worry about a better A/S tire when you need to replace the OEM tires..
and another point, shame on VW for putting a bad michelin on the car... thats not typical of their product by any means...


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## collins_tc (Dec 19, 2000)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (orionz06)*

A snow tire is designed to deal with snow. An all-season tires is a compromise in all facets.
All but the worst snow tires will outperform the leading all-season in snow. And ALWAYS buy tires for the worst scenario that you will encounter.
If you're set on getting all seasons, I would suggest the Bridgestone Potenza G019 if they make it in your size. These are the successors to the Potenza G009 and the Potenza RE950. I had the RE950s on my old Jetta and I bought a set of the G009s for my Mom's Toyota Celica. They are grippy in the dry, have great hydroplane resistance and they were better than any other A/S tire in snow.


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## Honda_Appliance (May 4, 2000)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (Rassig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rassig* »_
Not really... according to the Tire Rack user ratings, 
the Bridgestone 960 A/S user ratings for light snow, deep snow, & ice are almost 2x more than the Michelin Pilot MXM4.


It would still be stupid to spend all that money and have tires that are only marginally better in the snow.
I recommend these: http://www.discounttiredirect....s=205


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## Rassig (Feb 4, 2001)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (AutobahnTDI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutobahnTDI* »_I recommend these: http://www.discounttiredirect....s=205

Studded tires are a no-no in Illinois...
and I wouldn't recommend running a studdable snow tire w/o studs...
get one of the new gen studless snows.


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## CorradoSLC (Jan 20, 2000)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (WOB-JDR)*

Those Michelin stockers are horrible. We had the same on our '03 GLI. IMO, invest in a set of used stock wheels and a set of good high performance snows.
Several years ago, I went from almost wrecking my mint, low mile SLC on new ultra high performance rubber at about 10 mph in less than 1 inch of snow to never thinking twice about driving anywhere in the winter after adding some Pirelli 210 Asymmetricos. They handled great in the dry, too and forever opened my eyes to the beauty of hipo snow tires - even though we don't really live in a heavy snow area.


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (CorradoSLC)*

i love it when people talk about "surviving", a word usually associated w/ death, accidents, and hardships, w/ their "all-seasons" or even better, the ones that buy a good winter tire and realize they'd been "white knuckling" every winter before!! why have fish sticks for dinner every night when you can eat like a king!!! http://www.nokiantires.com hakkapeliitta!! join the attack!!


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## WOB-JDR (Feb 16, 2008)

Thanks guys for the replies. I don't have the need to forge through deep snow or ice (I live in the suburbs) so a heavy duty snow and ice tire isn't required. I'm pretty sure a great-preforming all-season is all I need. I'm going to continue thinking things through and will keep you all updated. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by WOB-JDR at 5:26 PM 12-4-2008_


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## Rassig (Feb 4, 2001)

*Re: (WOB-JDR)*

This ebay store is run by "Tires by Web"... they have their own separate website, bu their ebay store has much better pricing. 
Check it out for good deals for Nokian and a few others! 
http://stores.ebay.com/TiresBy...QtZkm


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (WOB-JDR)*

the suburbs still get icy and slushy, two conditions that are hard for an A/S tire... if you go that route, dont skimp


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## windycityvdub (Jan 21, 2008)

Update:
Went to Just Tires and when I put Michelin on the line with them, Michelin agreed to replace the tires for Michelin Pilot Exaltos. If I get their $$ value, I'm pretty sure I can get any tires that cost that much, which would include the Michelin Pilot Sport PLUS.
Which is better? I also have the option of Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Positions too.
Thanks


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## Rassig (Feb 4, 2001)

*Re: (windycityvdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *windycityvdub* »_Update:

Update to what issue? Are you in the right thread?


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## WOB-JDR (Feb 16, 2008)

*Re: (Rassig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rassig* »_
Update to what issue? Are you in the right thread?









He's my brother...not sure why he had to update my thread...


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## Honda_Appliance (May 4, 2000)

*Re: (WOB-JDR)*

You're fooling yourself if think upgrading to the Pilots or Pole Positions will help you drive better in the snow.


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (AutobahnTDI)*

i just turn on my hazards and wha-la instant traction!! i also drive in the lane w/ the "most" pavement showing.































_Modified by teutoned at 4:12 PM 12-5-2008_


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## WOB-JDR (Feb 16, 2008)

*Re: (AutobahnTDI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutobahnTDI* »_You're fooling yourself if think upgrading to the Pilots or Pole Positions will help you drive better in the snow.









explain....?


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## Rassig (Feb 4, 2001)

*Re: (AutobahnTDI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutobahnTDI* »_You're fooling yourself if think upgrading to the Pilots or Pole Positions will help you drive better in the snow.









Yes they will...
but less so than compared to a winter tire.


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## Honda_Appliance (May 4, 2000)

*Re: (WOB-JDR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WOB-JDR* »_
explain....? 

It doesn't make sense to spend all that money to "upgrade" to the Pole Positions or Pilots to get only a nominal increase in snow traction. If you buy real snow tires you will get MUCH better performance in the snow and you can still use your current tires in the non-winter months. 
If you really want to stick with one set of tires year-round, get a set of Nokian WRG2s. These are the only "all-season" tires that are truly rated for snow, at least that I know of.
http://www.nokiantires.com/tyr...+WRG2
Btw, any snow tire you are considering buying needs to have this icon on the sidewall:


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (AutobahnTDI)*

any tire you are considering for any winter traction should have the severe service symbol on the sidewall. anything that's just m&s rated is a joke!







why? the standards for the m&s rating were set in 1952 by our gov. and haven't been changed since!! all it really is based on is the amount of void space in the tread design.







doesn't take into account any compounding or siping. standards for the mountain/snowflake are much higher......


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## Rassig (Feb 4, 2001)

*Re: (AutobahnTDI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutobahnTDI* »_If you really want to stick with one set of tires year-round, get a set of Nokian WRG2s. These are the only "all-season" tires that are truly rated for snow, at least that I know of. 

The Vredestein Quatrac 2 and their newer gen Quatrac 3 are also "severe service" rated, 
i.e., the snowflake in a mountain symbol.
However, it appears they are not available in a 17"...
but perhaps they could be special ordered?
http://www.vredesteintire.com/ 
The Nokians are a great tire, but be prepared to pay dearly for them in your size ($200)...
unless you can find your size (or a close substitute) on Tire by Web's ebay store as I previously posted.


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## WOB-JDR (Feb 16, 2008)

As explained above, Michelin is swapping our our MXM4s for another tire (TBA soon), gratis. Snow tires are out of the question. Plus, if you had the MXM4s where I live, you would hate them in the summer (and of course in winter too). I really think better, higher all-around all seasons are what I need, and what I'll be getting free thanks to Michelin. 
Thanks everyone for your help http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (WOB-JDR)*

I still want to stress the difference between a good snow tire (sever service rating) and a great a/s tire... night and day, it is up to you to decide if you can safely get by with the latter, and in the end, it is you wrecking, not me...
but i will add, the pilot exalto a/s has been one of the best all season tires i have owned in the snow, hands down... and having the opportunity to test a lot of tires for a few companies, and personal tests as well, that is saying alot, i feel... but again, they are not a snow tire replacement...


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## WOB-JDR (Feb 16, 2008)

*Re:*

Car is finally being fit with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Pluses as I type, compliments of Michelin North America. I'm glad to be getting rid of the HM MX4s for good. Pics and a short review to come soon.


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## windycityvdub (Jan 21, 2008)

Just got them installed (I'm WOB-JDR's brother, he drove me to NTB).
MAJOR improvement everywhere. We had a dusting of snow that would have sent the MXM4's into a fit, but the Sport Pluses handled it like a champ. Just worried about the tire pressure, because let's say NTB wasn't exactly an "expert" installer....


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## Rassig (Feb 4, 2001)

*Re: Re: (WOB-JDR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WOB-JDR* »_Car is finally being fit with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Pluses as I type, compliments of Michelin North America. I'm glad to be getting rid of the HM MX4s for good. Pics and a short review to come soon.

So, I guess your car stayed off the streets for the last 2 to 3 weeks with all the nasty winter conditions in Chicago?


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## WOB-JDR (Feb 16, 2008)

*Re: Re: (Rassig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rassig* »_
So, I guess your car stayed off the streets for the last 2 to 3 weeks with all the nasty winter conditions in Chicago?

Thankfully it was off the roads last week while I was on vacation, but it was struggling a bit with the snow the past few weeks before, while the new tires were being shipped. I just have to watch for potholes now!

edit: As we were leaving National Tire and Battery, TPMS light was on. Ran back inside to the shop where we told that they were inflated to spec and the light should reset itself. Went to a gas station this morning to check pressure, and all four were between 29 and 31 psi--door jamb says 35 psi.










_Modified by WOB-JDR at 11:48 AM 12-31-2008_


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (WOB-JDR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WOB-JDR* »_Here's the dilemma:
I have an '08 VW Jetta Wolfsburg Edition (2.0T mated to a DSG) with stock Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 no-seasons. They are absolutely terrible. Low amounts of traction and control in wet (and occasionally dry) tarmac, and as I found out today, basically no traction in light snow. What I want to do is buy winter tires-- Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D to fit my stock Classixs in 225/45R17 and use the MXM4s in summer.
My dad, on the other hand, wants to buy good all-seasons (Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position) and ditch (sell?) the MXM4s. He says that they'll be good enough for our winter and he doesn't want to deal with mounting and dismounting seasonally.
So, should I get the winter tires and hold onto the MXM4s for summer, or just run the all-seasons all year? The car is on a 3 year lease with max mileage of 36,000.
Thanks. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/grinsanta.gif" BORDER="0"> 
P.S. The MXM4 review for giggles: 
click 
_Modified by WOB-JDR at 6:48 PM 12-1-2008_

the pilot hxm4 's are garbage. i took them off my car right away.
i was going to buy the 960's but after i read all the bad reviews and found out the tire was made extra narrow i decided not to since they were about $950. 
i was going to put on a set of Yokohamas S4's or W'4 but i talked with severl ppl and they told me that all Yokohamas are bad in the winter.
After 6 months of decieding i went with the new Goodyear Eagle GT's.
i know what your thinking and yes i had bad tires from Goodyear in the past. But as i started to read the reviews i couldnt find any bad ones. Let me tell you i am so glad that i went with this tire for my 225/45/17. It is a w- rated all/ season tire. This tire performs like a summer tire when its dry out. The best thing about this tire is the wet and snow traction that i get. The tires looks great to. If you shop around you can find a killer deal. i paid about $450 for the tires, mount n balance, alignment, and warranty. I also had a $80 mail in rebate. I paid about $370 for a w rated tire that truly handles excellent in the summer, rain, and snow. It also rides super smooth and extremly quiet. Check em out


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (AutobahnTDI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutobahnTDI* »_
Sorry but an "ultra high performance all season" won't be any better in the snow than what you already have. It would be stupid to buy those. The right thing to do is get the snow tires and an extra set of wheels to mount them on.

dont listen to him. the new tread compound and tread design gives summer performance and all season traction. Take it from me i have a Ultra high performance all season tire and it truely does what it says. THe pilot mxm4 is a really bad tire with terrible traction in the winter. Dont get a pair of winter tires with an extra set a rims. That is stupid and expensive. Just shop and find for a good UHPa/s tire.


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*

Just remember when there are several inches of snow or ice, a winter tire or an a/s tire will be bad in the snow to. Unless you want chains.


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## Bob Weaver (Jun 14, 2006)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_Just remember when there are several inches of snow or ice, a winter tire or an a/s tire will be bad in the snow to. Unless you want chains.

And the hits just keep on coming.


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## collins_tc (Dec 19, 2000)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (Bob Weaver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bob Weaver* »_And the hits just keep on coming.









Seriously...








I can't believe people actually believe that an all-season tire is anywhere near as good as any purpose-specific tire. It's like saying, "Why get racing slicks? A really good all-season is all you need for racing!"
*The best all-season in the snow is still below all but the worst snow tires in the snow.*


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## windycityvdub (Jan 21, 2008)

Have you guys actually used the Pilot MXM4? (the naysayers?)
THE ULTRA HIGH PERFORMANCE ALL SEASONS ARE 1239123013 TIMES BETTER THAN THE GRAND TOURING MXM4s. I'M NOT LOOKING FOR PERFECT WINTER PERFORMANCE, I'M LOOKING FOR A USABLE TIRE IN THE WINTER. THE PILOT SPORT A/S PLUS IS USABLE AND MILES BETTER IN THE SNOW.
/Thread.


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## WOB-JDR (Feb 16, 2008)

*Re: (windycityvdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *windycityvdub* »_Have you guys actually used the Pilot MXM4? (the naysayers?)
THE ULTRA HIGH PERFORMANCE ALL SEASONS ARE 1239123013 TIMES BETTER THAN THE GRAND TOURING MXM4s. I'M NOT LOOKING FOR PERFECT WINTER PERFORMANCE, I'M LOOKING FOR A USABLE TIRE IN THE WINTER. THE PILOT SPORT A/S PLUS IS USABLE AND MILES BETTER IN THE SNOW.
/Thread.









Ignore my brother







. He likes to yell sometimes. Thank you to all who chipped in their advice. 
Quick pic of the new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S+:










_Modified by WOB-JDR at 11:21 AM 1-1-2009_


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## Honda_Appliance (May 4, 2000)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_
Dont get a pair of winter tires with an extra set a rims. That is stupid and expensive. Just shop and find for a good UHPa/s tire. 



Don't get much snow in Ohio, eh?


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## Rassig (Feb 4, 2001)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_Just remember when there are several inches of snow or ice, a *winter tire*... will be bad in the snow to. Unless you want chains.


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (AutobahnTDI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutobahnTDI* »_

Don't get much snow in Ohio, eh?

we only get a few days of snow each winter. A winter tire only give you slightly better advantage over a all season tire. Its not worth it paying $600 for rims, and then paying $800 for tires. Then you have to pay for a non winter set of tires wich could cost another $800-$1000
i just have one set of really good w rated uhp a/s that get me threw all year round wheather. My Eagle Gt's bite handle and grip awesome in the snow. Best part is i only paid $400 for a set includes tax mount and balance and warranty.


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (collins_tc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *collins_tc* »_
Seriously...








I can't believe people actually believe that an all-season tire is anywhere near as good as any purpose-specific tire. It's like saying, "Why get racing slicks? A really good all-season is all you need for racing!"
*The best all-season in the snow is still below all but the worst snow tires in the snow.*

the new compounds in tires and tread design are very different then what they use to be. My new w rated all season tires truely bite, stop, turn, and accelerate awesome in the snow and slush.


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## collins_tc (Dec 19, 2000)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_the new compounds in tires and tread design are very different then what they use to be. My new w rated all season tires truely bite, stop, turn, and accelerate awesome in the snow and slush.

I understand that. That technology has also made it into snow tires. I'll still take snows over all-seasons if there's snow on the street.
And yes, I have had the Michelin HX MXM4 tires on my car - they came as stock tires on the 2003 Jetta GLI. Yes, they are crap.
/I have three sets of wheels for my car (summers, snows and slicks for track days), so I'll shut up now...


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (collins_tc)*

if you drive on snow tires when its not snowing out the tires are 
to loud
to rough
they will wear out extremly fast or melt.
and performance is not so good in dry summer condtions.
why spend all that money on snow tires and and extra set of rims 
while you can just buy a really good a/s tire.
then you got take the car in the have the tires mounted balanced 2 times a year. unless you can do that in your own garage


_Modified by kylem at 11:21 PM 1-1-2009_


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## Bob Weaver (Jun 14, 2006)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_
we only get a few days of snow each winter. A winter tire only give you slightly better advantage over a all season tire. Its not worth it paying $600 for rims, and then paying $800 for tires. Then you have to pay for a non winter set of tires wich could cost another $800-$1000
i just have one set of really good w rated uhp a/s that get me threw all year round wheather. My Eagle Gt's bite handle and grip awesome in the snow. Best part is i only paid $400 for a set includes tax mount and balance and warranty.

My winter tire setup cost me $780 with rims. It could be cheaper if I just ran steelies. My other setup is in the garage right now being saved from wear and tear which should make them last longer right?



_Modified by Bob Weaver at 4:49 AM 1-2-2009_


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## Bob Weaver (Jun 14, 2006)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_if you drive on snow tires when its not snowing out the tires are 
to loud
to rough
they will wear out extremly fast or melt.
and performance is not so good in dry summer condtions.
why spend all that money on snow tires and and extra set of rims 
while you can just buy a really good a/s tire.
then you got take the car in the have the tires mounted balanced 2 times a year. unless you can do that in your own garage

_Modified by kylem at 11:21 PM 1-1-2009_

This really is just not correct, I'm sorry. With my General Arctic's I notice no more noise than I ever did. The handling isn't any different than I'm used to. Really what kind of race car driving are people doing in the winter anyway?







The tires only wear out if the temps are above 45 on a consistent basis. So come April I swap out the winters. Also, ya know winter tires are for more than just snow. Do they really need to be balanced after sitting for a couple seasons? http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Modified by Bob Weaver at 4:50 AM 1-2-2009_


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_Just remember when there are several inches of snow or ice, a winter tire or an a/s tire will be bad in the snow to. Unless you want chains.

you gotta be kidding us? when and where is you next gig? i love stand-up comedy!










_Modified by teutoned at 7:52 AM 1-2-2009_


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (teutoned)*

your winter tire is still gong to slide, slip, and spin when there is snow or ice on the ground.

So now you drive very aggresive because you hace a winter tire on your car. Thats when most accidents happend.


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## collins_tc (Dec 19, 2000)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_your winter tire is still gong to slide, slip, and spin when there is snow or ice on the ground.

So now you drive very aggresive because you hace a winter tire on your car. Thats when most accidents happend. 

*Please...stop spreading misinformation on a topic when you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.*


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (collins_tc)*

lol stop acting like like your winter tire has chains on it


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## Bob Weaver (Jun 14, 2006)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_your winter tire is still gong to slide, slip, and spin when there is snow or ice on the ground.


But your W rated tire is going to "bite, handle and grip awesome in the snow" right?


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## Honda_Appliance (May 4, 2000)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_lol stop acting like like your winter tire has chains on it

Have you ever used true winter tires and/or driven in deep snow?!?


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (AutobahnTDI)*

i wanna know how stepping up to a higher speed rated tire "improves" your traction in snowy/icy conditions?


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## collins_tc (Dec 19, 2000)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_lol stop acting like like your winter tire has chains on it

I reiterate: ANY snow tire is going to be better in the snow than any all-season.
Read these and then come back with your "expert" opinion:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...d=103
http://cars.about.com/od/advic...s.htm


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_
the new compounds in tires and tread design are very different then what they use to be. My new w rated all season tires truely bite, stop, turn, and accelerate awesome in the snow and slush.

yes, and the same advances in compounds have also advanced SNOW tires even more... thus making them BETTER yet... what does the speed rating have to do with your tires abilty to gain traction on any surface? the speed rating tells the buyer that the tire wont fall apart when it is spinning at a certain speed... 

and why do you feel the need to justify your purchase by telling people how awesome they are? your last several posts are just comical and i hope for the people that love you that you dont really follow your own advice...


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (orionz06)*

have you evern driven on a h rated tire and then on a UHP tire?
you dont have drive the speed rating to feel the difference.
we dont buy uhp tires because of there speed rating.
We buy them because how they handle compared to a h rated grand touring tire.
back to the subject of the person that wrote this post.
there is no need for someone to have 8 rims with 8 tires.
just buy 1 set of a solid a/s tires. Yes there are certain a/s tires that are better in the winter. i expressed my opinion to the person that posted this thread. Because i have the tire and i know how it handles in the all 4 seson. 
lol my tires are better then yours and i can drive them year round.
rofl horionz06 is that the year you graduated h.s. ?


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*

kylem...sometimes it is better to surrender rather than be destroyed...just some helpful advice


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## Bob Weaver (Jun 14, 2006)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (pturner67)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pturner67* »_kylem...sometimes it is better to surrender rather than be destroyed...just some helpful advice


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_have you evern driven on a h rated tire and then on a UHP tire?
you dont have drive the speed rating to feel the difference.
we dont buy uhp tires because of there speed rating.
We buy them because how they handle compared to a h rated grand touring tire.
back to the subject of the person that wrote this post.
there is no need for someone to have 8 rims with 8 tires.
just buy 1 set of a solid a/s tires. Yes there are certain a/s tires that are better in the winter. i expressed my opinion to the person that posted this thread. Because i have the tire and i know how it handles in the all 4 seson. 
lol my tires are better then yours and i can drive them year round.
rofl horionz06 is that the year you graduated h.s. ?


yes i have actually... 2005ish cadillac CTS equipped with hrated response edges and then the same tire rated in a v, and then an older goodyear rated even higher...

my track times on an auto-x type course with a few higerspeed turns was better with the newer tires that werent rated as high as the zr tire, and my times with the h and v rated tire were close enough to not matter... this was the same with the manager from my shop and everyone else there... the hrated tire handled as well as the v rated tire, and better than the z rated tire... 

what you are talking about are TWO DIFFERENT TYPES of tires... perforamance vs grand touring... i hope to god a grand touring tire doesnt handle better than a performance tire (although some falkens wont)... and lets not get started on the speed rating, you can never go over 30mph and still exert the same forces on the tire as traveling above their limit... 
and yes, there is a need to buy 8 tires and 8 wheels.... assume the car comes with 4 tires and wheels, the last couple cars i bought this was a standard feature...
then you buy steelies from tire rack for $30-40 a pop, and then you get snows for 80-100 a pop... after mounting and shipping you are spending $600, which is slightly higher than the average deductible.... the traction you will get is much better than any A/S tire... 

doing this would save me roughly 6k miles a year on my a/s tires, and the snows for me last 3 seasons (or 18k miles)... on a new car, the tires typically last 20-30k miles (my rabbit will see 30k), so 18k is going to help a lot considering i drive both cars roughly 15k a year... a whole extra year is saved before i need new a/s tires... if i dont get snows, i need to replace my a/s tires sooner because an a/s tire with 5/32 of tread is not nearly as good as brand new tires (you should atleast agree to this) and the level of safety is not there... so after replacing tires that will still work in the summer, i now replace my a/s tires every 20-25k miles, and still spend more on tires than i would if i bought snows and wheels...

and actually, i graduated hs in 2002, and penn state in 2008 (getting 2 degrees)... during that time i worked at multiple garages and have had many opportunites through my job and friends to see a lot of cool cars from goodyear, bfg, and other brands and even participate in events to show of the tires abilities... some of which were held by a friends school (work on race cars) and some were at goodyear...

what have you done? we all know you bought the best tires in the world for $400, so i guess you are qualified because you bought tires and havent died yet


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

performance rating...
this tells you what speed the tire can rotate before the belts cannot hold the tire flat... 
the trick is, quick accleration can also exert the same forces on the tire... 
if you do it fast enough, 0-30mph can apply the same outward forces on the belts as rotating at 150mph... 

what tire mfg's do is increase the overall strength of the belts to resist greater forces... given the nature of the tires use, performance and handling, they are going to have a stiffer sidewall and less flex anyway...

that being said, you can find some h-rated tires that have stiffer sidewalls than others, such as tires that are offered in a performance a/s or max performance a/s... these tires are cheaper and allow people the look or enter the better handling arena without spending a pile of cash, and conorming to the minimum requirements of the vehicle, ie, a mk4 jetta 1.8t that requires an h rated tire... there are many great handling tires in h-rating that are also offered in a v-rating... 
kylem, you should drive them new for new, side by side (blind testing if possible) and then tell me you can tell a difference...


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (orionz06)*

in laymen's terms, a higher speed rated tire has a stiffer sidewall which equates to less contact patch flex and a faster response to driver input. this is great for dry road performance but not so good for winter traction. in snow and ice, the driver needs the contact patch to flex so that it can shape and grip the road surface. the softer sidewall also acts as suspension. the hardest part for the driver is slowing down his input and waiting for tire to respond. 


_Modified by teutoned at 7:42 AM 1-3-2009_


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (teutoned)*

i was going in a different direction, but that is also correct... the belt structure is th bigger difference... 
but you bring up the biggest point, it is irrelevant for winter driving...


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (orionz06)*

belt structure is important. the cheaper materials like polyester and nylon don't like cold temperatures and don't flex as well. higher cost material like rayon will continue to be supple in the colder temps. most drivers aren't aware of what the sidewall is doing. its like a spring. when you turn, it loads and compresses. the key part to winter driving is how the driver loads and unloads it. unload too fast and usually find yourself in the ditch or chasing the rear end. loading it is hard too because most are use to the rate at which their a/s higher speed rated tire responds,ie they load too much.


_Modified by teutoned at 8:01 AM 1-3-2009_


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (teutoned)*

so what you are saying is get goodyear eagle gt's and i will be ok?


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (orionz06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *orionz06* »_

and yes, there is a need to buy 8 tires and 8 wheels.... assume the car comes with 4 tires and wheels, the last couple cars i bought this was a standard feature...
then you buy steelies from tire rack for $30-40 a pop, and then you get snows for 80-100 a pop... after mounting and shipping you are spending $600, which is slightly higher than the average deductible.... the traction you will get is much better than any A/S tire... 


i'm dubbin it!! 
the cheapest insurance you'll ever buy. i'd rather spend 600-1000 smackers on winters then wreck it, pay my deductible, plus the time my car is in the shop, increased insurance rate, and not have enough after said and done to buy the winters so the cyle doesn't repeat.







but hey what do know i just do tires for living...


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (teutoned)*

and in the long run, it is substantially cheaper...


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (orionz06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *orionz06* »_so what you are saying is get goodyear eagle gt's and i will be ok?

no. cheaper tires are typically constructed w/ the cheaper materials. ie "my goodyears are awesome they only cost $400!!" or "those nokians are expensive." in my world, you get what you pay for. they're more money because they use higher quality materials which equates to better durabilty and sustainable safety. granted most won't feel the difference between polyester vs. rayon. and the cheaper winter tire is still a safe choice.


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (teutoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *teutoned* »_
no. cheaper tires are typically constructed w/ the cheaper materials. ie "my goodyears are awesome they only cost $400!!" or "those nokians are expensive." in my world, you get what you pay for. they're more money because they use higher quality materials which equates to better durabilty and sustainable safety. granted most won't feel the difference between polyester vs. rayon. and the cheaper winter tire is still a safe choice.

i was being sarcastic... but the continued effort to prove a point is great...
what i saw in the business was dads saying "i dont need to spend a lot, its my daughters car" or "i dont plan on keeping the car that long"
that is why people get cheap tires, because they dont think they need the good ones until they have paid a high price for buying cheap...
those are the people that rear end you...


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_
just buy 1 set of a solid a/s tires. Yes there are certain a/s tires that are better in the winter. 


by this you must mean nokian's wr or wr g2 all-weather plus!!!
http://www.nokiantires.com
hakkapeliitta!! join the attack!!


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: (orionz06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *orionz06* »_so what you are saying is get goodyear eagle gt's and i will be ok?

it sure worked for me. i was so surprised how good this tire is in the winter time with out sacrificeing its performance in the summer.


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_
it sure worked for me. i was so surprised how good this tire is in the winter time with out sacrificeing its performance in the summer.

no i wouldnt, because i have driven on some of the best snow tires before, and compared them to BETTER a/s tires... 
there have been times where i used new a/s tires in the winter, but i have always had one car with full snows because there is no substitute... 
and again, you dont need to justify your purchase by telling everyone in here how the entry level goodyear tires are better than sliced bread


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (collins_tc)*

*The best all-season in the snow is still below all but the worst snow tires in the snow.*[/QUOTE]
You have no proof of this. You have never tested side by side a/s vs snow tires. Here you go again stating you personal opinions what you think is wrong and right. Why is it that some a/s tires have better raings then some snow tires on tirerack? I guess everything is better and right just becasue you bought it
I know how you feel. Sometimes when i buy something and when i find out there is something better then what i have i get jelous and mad. as is with you. Its ok its only tires on your car. Yours will wear out and then you can put on a set of Eagle GT's.















Tilll then keep reading all the reviews of them. 


_Modified by kylem at 10:12 PM 1-3-2009_


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_
You have no proof of this. You have never tested side by side a/s vs snow tires. Here you go again stating you personal opinions what you think is wrong and right. Why is it that some a/s tires have better raings then some snow tires on tirerack? I guess everything is better and right just becasue you bought it
I know how you feel. Sometimes when i buy something and when i find out there is something better then what i have i get jelous and mad. as is with you. Its ok its only tires on your car. Yours will wear out and then you can put on a set of Eagle GT's.















Tilll then keep reading all the reviews of them. 



kylem...here are some words of wisdom for you by Confucius (pronounced Con-fyoo-shus if you have never read about him):
- When you have faults, do not fear to abandon them.
- He who learns but does not think, is lost! He who thinks but does not learn is in great danger.
- No matter how busy you may think you are, you must find time for reading, or surrender yourself to self-chosen ignorance.
- Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.



_Modified by pturner67 at 7:56 AM 1-4-2009_


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## Bob Weaver (Jun 14, 2006)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_
*The best all-season in the snow is still below all but the worst snow tires in the snow.*

You have no proof of this. You have never tested side by side a/s vs snow tires. Here you go again stating you personal opinions what you think is wrong and right. Why is it that some a/s tires have better raings then some snow tires on tirerack? I guess everything is better and right just becasue you bought it
I know how you feel. Sometimes when i buy something and when i find out there is something better then what i have i get jelous and mad. as is with you. Its ok its only tires on your car. Yours will wear out and then you can put on a set of Eagle GT's.















Tilll then keep reading all the reviews of them. 

_Modified by kylem at 10:12 PM 1-3-2009_[/QUOTE]
There are many tests on tirerack confirming winter tires are better than a/s in the snow. Here is just one small tidbit from one of the tests.
"While all-season tires may provide enough wintertime traction for drivers in areas of the country that only receive occasional light snow, Tire Rack feels there isn't a viable alternative to dedicated winter / snow tires if drivers expect to encounter deep or frequent slush, snow or ice.
Tires are often the difference between wintertime gripping and white knuckle slipping, and only matched sets of four will do!"
Add that to the fact that many of us on here have tested both and you just can't win buddy. I don't know why you keep coming back for more. I come to this thread each day just to get a good laugh from one of your posts.

Another thing, learn how to quote people properly. Would make others' posts look better when quoting you. 

Don't worry nobody's jealous of anything you have. Especially after safely transporting my family through all kinds of snow conditions over the holidays over many miles of roads that I would never make with a/s tires.



_Modified by Bob Weaver at 5:54 AM 1-4-2009_


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_
*The best all-season in the snow is still below all but the worst snow tires in the snow.*

You have no proof of this. You have never tested side by side a/s vs snow tires. Here you go again stating you personal opinions what you think is wrong and right. Why is it that some a/s tires have better raings then some snow tires on tirerack? I guess everything is better and right just becasue you bought it
I know how you feel. Sometimes when i buy something and when i find out there is something better then what i have i get jelous and mad. as is with you. Its ok its only tires on your car. Yours will wear out and then you can put on a set of Eagle GT's.















Tilll then keep reading all the reviews of them. 

_Modified by kylem at 10:12 PM 1-3-2009_[/QUOTE]

ratings and test results are two different things... often times tirerack ratings are hard to judge, especially if people like you who have no clue are doing the ratings. and when most of us speak of snow tires, we speak about the x-ice, blizzak, and nokian offerings.... all of those tires will perform much better when compared to the tires you speak of...
example, my next a/s tire will be the pilot sport a/s plus, and the pilot alpin pa3 will be better in the snow... the sport will be good, but the alpin will be better... since you swing off of goodyears nuts so hard, perhaps you should try a set of ultra grip performances, which goodyear rates higher than the gt... why didnt you get the f1 all season over the gt, because goodyear rates it to be better in the dry and wet with a better ride and less noise... or atleast the response edge, it has 10 ratings for noise and comfort and exceeds the ratings of the eagle gt... from what i can tell, you bought the worst goodyear tire for your car (using goodyears numbers)

what room does that give you to say a damned thing when there are better tires out there just from goodyear, which isnt saying much as theyre pretty terrible at best...? 
and have you ever used a snow tire? if you have used a good snow tire, you would be using snow tires now, unless of course you have no clue...
i suggest you return to your parents place and go to your room and think this over for a while and get back to us


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## Honda_Appliance (May 4, 2000)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (orionz06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *orionz06* »_
and have you ever used a snow tire? if you have used a good snow tire, you would be using snow tires now, unless of course you have no clue...


The reason he is so clueless about winter tires is because Ohio doesn't get much snow... most of the state only gets around 30" annually. Him giving advice on winter tires is like someone from Alaska giving advice on the best air conditioner to buy.


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (AutobahnTDI)*

true, but some of ohio does get tremendous amounts of snow, which concerns me that he actually thinks he can get around... but ohio is flat, so that takes all of the fun out of winter driving...


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (Bob Weaver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bob Weaver* »_
I come to this thread each day just to get a good laugh from one of your posts.

I was just thinking this earlier this morning..LOL


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (pturner67)*

If you would have read the whole thread i said ohio doesnt get much snow. Lake effect snow gets city's with in 50 miles of the lakes. You dont even know about that so im not going to better telling you. You only need winters if you live in alaska. Why do yo still think that a winter tire acts as though it has chains on it? You get the same traction out of a good a/s tire then you would with any snow tire 
The slight tractoin advantage that you get from a winter tire is not worth buying a set of rims and buying winter tires, a/s, or summer tires.
I get the same thing from my a/s Eagle gt's then you get out of you winter tires in the snow. have fun driving over 45mph on your winter tires when there is no snow outside.
ok are you having some kind of 3 some between each other? you have something on your face.


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*

you again prove that you have never driven on winter tires... 
how can you tell us how good you think you have it when you dont know how bad you really have it...


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## Jesstzn (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*

Alaska gets less snow than the majority of the northern US states and Canada. So your off base there. 
Hey guys we need to start believing him .. he is an expert on winter tires and doesn't buy them, doesn't know the rubber in winter tires is a different compound and the siping is designed to release snow where the All Season isn't .. and he admittadly lives in a flat state with little snow ... Winter tires do feel a little a little more flexable on dry roads but thats in the design. BTW I just drove 800 miles on winters at 50 to 70 MPH and no issues like he says ... on top of that he is a Wal Mart detailing expert knowing more than the pros and the Meguiars experts. 
Ignore time !!!!!!!!!!


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (Jesstzn)*

rofl meguiars is not professional. i have used alomost all of there lines. The Mirror Glaze wich by them says professional on it. i didnt think it was anything special. Hi-tech yellow wax #26. Wall mart has the same crap that you buy at any of you autozones, advanced auto parts, pepboys, or any other store. I get certain stuff at wallmart because its cheaper then anywhere else like Eagle rim cleaner and mf towels. i live 10 minuts from Summit Racing and i find the same stuff there at any other discount store. i buy some stuff at Summit, but i find some of the same stuff at walllmart cause its less expensive.
Any of my waxes, polishes, sealants, bonnets, leather cleaners, interoir cleaners or anything that i use i buy online because I cant find it in stores. Anything you buy at a store is not professional grade.
All those ppl that post pictures of there cleaning supplies in there gargage on shelves is all from wallmart, autozone and all those same stores.


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (AutobahnTDI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutobahnTDI* »_
The reason he is so clueless about winter tires is because Ohio doesn't get much snow... most of the state only gets around 30" annually. Him giving advice on winter tires is like someone from Alaska giving advice on the best air conditioner to buy.

all i have to do is read that you own a tdi... rofl wow now i know who im dealing with. you might as well put chicken grease in your car. 1/4 mile numbers would still be the same.


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_rofl meguiars is not professional. i have used alomost all of there lines. The Mirror Glaze wich by them says professional on it. i didnt think it was anything special. Hi-tech yellow wax #26. Wall mart has the same crap that you buy at any of you autozones, advanced auto parts, pepboys, or any other store. I get certain stuff at wallmart because its cheaper then anywhere else like Eagle rim cleaner and mf towels. i live 10 minuts from Summit Racing and i find the same stuff there at any other discount store. i buy some stuff at Summit, but i find some of the same stuff at walllmart cause its less expensive.
Any of my waxes, polishes, sealants, bonnets, leather cleaners, interoir cleaners or anything that i use i buy online because I cant find it in stores. Anything you buy at a store is not professional grade.
All those ppl that post pictures of there cleaning supplies in there gargage on shelves is all from wallmart, autozone and all those same stores.


you are in the tire forum... it is best to address tire related issues here... you can show us how little you know about detailing in the detailing thread...
and what does the TDI have to do with anything? My guess is if he wanted a fast car, he wouldve bought something different than what he has now. My guess is he bought the TDI because it is a diesel, and it was what he wanted...

and to address what you did post here, if your buying microfiber from walmart, who are you to call someone unprofessional? and i will add, if you cannot tell the difference between megs pro stuff and turtle wax, it will be better for you in the long run to use turtle wax...


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## windycityvdub (Jan 21, 2008)

so......
The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus is doing pretty well. We only had a dusting of snow recently, which was handled like a champ. In the dry, it was a lot more responsive and the handling felt quicker and tighter, on you know, pot hole avoidance maneuvers. In the wet, it felt more planted and there was less (still some) wheelspin.


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## collins_tc (Dec 19, 2000)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_all i have to do is read that you own a tdi... rofl wow now i know who im dealing with. you might as well put chicken grease in your car. 1/4 mile numbers would still be the same.

Why are you so bitter?















The object of this thread (and Vortex in general) is to help those who have questions about a topic find correct answers. All you have done with your argumentative posts is divert people away from the correct answer: that in snowy conditions, snow tires are superior to all-season tires.
We're not talking about TDI 1/4 mile times
We're not talking about which wax is best
We're not talking about the annual snowfall of a particular geographic area


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (collins_tc)*

if he or you have something not nice to say i simply reply my feeling back to you.


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## Mike Gordon (Apr 11, 2005)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_ You get the same traction out of a good a/s tire then you would with any snow tire 
The slight tractoin advantage that you get from a winter tire is not worth buying a set of rims and buying winter tires, a/s, or summer tires.
I get the same thing from my a/s Eagle gt's then you get out of you winter tires in the snow. have fun driving over 45mph on your winter tires when there is no snow outside.


LOL. WOW! I can't believe I've been missing this thread.








Guys I think it's time to give it a rest. He's probably just typing this crap to get a rise out of you guys. It's pretty obvious how ridiculous some of the stuff he's saying is.



_Modified by Mike Gordon at 3:09 AM 1-5-2009_


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: Winter Tires vs. New All-Seasons (Mike Gordon)*

yeah...this has been a good one too...good read in the oil thread
true...troll material


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (windycityvdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *windycityvdub* »_so......
The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus is doing pretty well. We only had a dusting of snow recently, which was handled like a champ. In the dry, it was a lot more responsive and the handling felt quicker and tighter, on you know, pot hole avoidance maneuvers. In the wet, it felt more planted and there was less (still some) wheelspin. 

glad to hear!


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (orionz06)*

lookin' for an update on all the M+S tire users now that there has been some severe winter conditions. are your eagle GTs still the best?


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (teutoned)*

he got banned for being a moron... he has been back, but i havent encountered is stupidity yet...


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## windycityvdub (Jan 21, 2008)

*Re: (teutoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *teutoned* »_lookin' for an update on all the M+S tire users now that there has been some severe winter conditions. are your eagle GTs still the best?

Our Pilot Sport A/S Plus have seen pretty heavy snow and have done very well. Only thing I am worried about is potholes. And of course having snow that higher than my ground clearance.


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (teutoned)*

anyone who isn't a complete forum troll can admit that all-season tires are not as good in the snow as dedicated snow tires...but all-season tires do provide _some_ light snow protection over summer tires...I have had summer tires and I have had all-season tires...and there is definitely a difference in snow traction


----------

