# New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous



## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)




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## optikNurve (Oct 5, 2001)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (gearhead455)*

Seriously high tech injector plugs you've got there...








Seriously though, setup looks sick.. How much $ are you into it? I'm thinking about DCOE or NOS [never considered both] on my golf...
Thanks!


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (optikNurve)*

Well, I only use Bounty brand injector plugs of course.
How much money? too much.
Got the carbs on E-Gay for $200... that saved some money.


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## 2slo2go (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (gearhead455)*

what shot is that?


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (2slo2go)*

Whatever I want it to be.
60HP - 250HP depending on the jets. Jetted for 80HP and I'm going to work up to 120HP.


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (gearhead455)*

Gearhead, 
When do you expect to have her altogether and at the dyno/track?


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (Andrew Stauffer)*

Mid to late September


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## rbr20 (Jul 28, 2001)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (gearhead455)*

Gearhead, Nice looking install. That setup is going to kick ass. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (rbr20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rbr20* »_Gearhead, Nice looking install. That setup is going to kick ass. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Ready to commence ass kicking


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## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (gearhead455)*

Lovin it dude..







the sound of carbs or ITB's is way to addictive i just wanna keep my car at 7krpm all day long =P
your gonna love it.. Nice work on the nitrous lines etc.. looks uber clean.
I'm curious how the nitrous works out since it may be the next logical step for my motor if i need 'more' and we always need 'more' at some point dont we =P
right now the car is still fast enough to scare me. cant wait till yours is running


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (CdnDub)*

I just got done putting DCNF's on a Fiat 124 Spider. They sounded so bad ass that I had to put carbs on the rabbit too. Power increase was awesome also.









DOHC 8V









_Modified by gearhead455 at 3:03 AM 8-28-2003_


_Modified by gearhead455 at 1:27 PM 8-28-2003_


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## Patrick (Apr 28, 2000)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (gearhead455)*

Gearhead,
What fuel pressure on you gonna be running?? I need some help sizing up my nitrous jets too and I'm not having much luck. Looking for 100hp on stock Digi II pump etc... any suggestions?
Thanks man


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (Supercharged VR6)*

9 PSI on the Nitrous and 4 PSI on the Carburetors.
Here is a tool that can give you a baseline ballpark of what jet to use. The jets should still be flow tested because there is some variance. 
http://www.robietherobot.com/N...r.htm 
I got graduated cylinders from Edmunds Scientifics.
http://scientificsonline.com/p...37525 











_Modified by gearhead455 at 1:37 PM 8-28-2003_


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## sidejam (Feb 24, 2001)

Wow!!!
Looks good.
G60 valve cover is a nice touch too!


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## Patrick (Apr 28, 2000)

*Re: (sidejam)*

Ok..I tried that calculator and came up with this for a 100hp shot direct port @45psi fuel pressure:
Fuel: .028
Nitrous: .047
Is this right? Or are those numbers for a single fogger setup? I'm confused if you can't tell, LOL and I need to sort this out like today..or even this morning any help is appreciated!
Thanks


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## Zero4875 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (Supercharged VR6)*

Nitrous/Fuel Ratio should be around 5:1.


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## Patrick (Apr 28, 2000)

Got it...
I'm new to the nitrous world so I need all the educating I can get...
Any suggestions on jetting or do those numbers I posted above sound about right?


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## Patrick (Apr 28, 2000)

Ok..looks to me like that calculator is set up for a single fogger application..now a 4 fogger as is what I'm using.


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (Supercharged VR6)*

Pick a small size... multiply by 4 = total.


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## Patrick (Apr 28, 2000)

*Re: (gearhead455)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gearhead455* »_Pick a small size... multiply by 4 = total.









I'm retarded, LOL....couldn't have been any simpler think I got it "figured" out now, LOL


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (Supercharged VR6)*

I'm using 4 .020 jets for a total of 88 HP. Well I think, I need a digital gram scale to flow the nitrous but I don't have one yet .


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## MarksCorrado (Feb 21, 2002)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

Sorry for a noob question..but what are the benefits to carbs?


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (MarksCorrado)*

Out flows any OEM manifold. Flows well at high RPM 7,000+ (if the head can flow at 7,000+RPM )
Difficult to run 300+ degree camshafts on OEM injection.
Only thing better is ITB's $$$.


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## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

I think my ITB's cost less than a set of carbs







including the manifold.


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## MarksCorrado (Feb 21, 2002)

*Re: (CdnDub)*

Once again Im still learning! ITB??? Have any pics for me to better understand?
Any info is greatly appreciated.


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## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: (MarksCorrado)*

look like carbs but use EFI fuel fuel instead..
ITB stands for Individual throttle bodies







and they make the best sound on earth. 
THESE are ITB's







in fact they are itb's from a Suzuki Bike.
























gearheads already got me thinking about nitrous.. be nice to hit 250hp from a 1.8L without a turbo.



_Modified by CdnDub at 8:03 PM 9-5-2003_


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (CdnDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CdnDub* »_I think my ITB's cost less than a set of carbs







including the manifold.

$300 into mine with all the small crap included. No laptop required... just a bunch of funny jets and chokes that cost as much as a laptop!








There is still one thing that carbs has over ITB's .... adjustable choke sizes to move around the power band with intake air velocity.


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## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: (CdnDub)*

Btw Gearhead455.. in case you want to remove that thermotime switch/sensor I noticed that a spare crank pulley bolt fits perfectly in the hole <same threads> and seals it up without taking up as much space or looking like it shouldnt be there








you do have to chop a bunch of the threads off with a hacksaw or grinder but it works good.


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## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: (CdnDub)*

True choke sizes are nice.. on the other hand the Suzuki ITB's come with a second factory computer controlled throttle plate that you could control with software fairly easily with an RPM vs opening map.. i may play with that stuff later to keep air velocity up for now i'm pretty content just f*cking around with a laptop.. I got nothing against carbs for racing tho.. they still Own








Carbs win out over CIS any day for power and top end.. i kinda enjoy being able to change my fuel maps from the drivers seat <while parked> without having to unscrew jets and change things out but its all personal preference.


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## MarksCorrado (Feb 21, 2002)

*Re: (CdnDub)*

That looks like a crazy cool setup. Thanks for the education...man...if I add anymore noise to my engine (Lysholm) my neighboours are gonna loose it!!!!


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (CdnDub)*

Oh... I hate F'n jets too! But I'll deal with it.
#1 I have no welder to make crazy manifolds
#2 I can't weld
So I can't afford bolt on ITB's, second hand even!


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (CdnDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CdnDub* »_Btw Gearhead455.. in case you want to remove that thermotime switch/sensor I noticed that a spare crank pulley bolt fits perfectly in the hole <same threads> and seals it up without taking up as much space or looking like it shouldnt be there








you do have to chop a bunch of the threads off with a hacksaw or grinder but it works good.

Cool, I'll keep that in mind.


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## 2slo2go (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (CdnDub)*

cdndub... quick question... what have you set your redline at? Or a more precise question... at what RPM does your powerband begin to drop?


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## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: (2slo2go)*

I dont know if i'd go thru the hassle of making a manifold again it was far to much work.. the results are kinda nice but damn took me nearly 50-60hours for the manifold alone.
If i were buying stuff to do it and not making it myself i would've gone carbs as well.. nothing sounds quite like a pair of DCOE's








Oh and for redline.. i havnt found my power dropoff yet.. i get scared and shift before it falls off.. power keeps building past 7500rpm so far <shifting at the gas gauge>








Most of my power is after 5500rpm.. really kicks in hard at 6k.. fueling is still an issue so once i get that sorted we'll see what it can really do.


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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: (CdnDub)*

gearhead which way are you going with your project? Dailydriver, weekend warrior or both







?
I too can't wait to hear my DCNF's on my rabbit, I have *that* dual intake for our motors http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . If you need one let me know, i have the link








Icandigit,
Thomas


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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: (gearhead455)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gearhead455* »_
... just a bunch of funny jets and chokes that cost as much as a laptop!








.... adjustable choke sizes to move around the power band with intake air velocity. 

And THATS the reason why I snatch ALL the DCOEs from Ebay, the parts are are priceless !!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
righton,
Thomas


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## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: (the12for12)*

the single downdraft weber on my mazda pickup sounds awesome.. duals would be killer








is it that south african company who makes manifolds ? i have a link somewhere too.


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (the12for12)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the12for12* »_gearhead which way are you going with your project? Dailydriver, weekend warrior or both







?
I too can't wait to hear my DCNF's on my rabbit, I have *that* dual intake for our motors http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . If you need one let me know, i have the link








Icandigit,
Thomas 

Naw... 1.8T Jetta for daily, I like my leather seats and the CD player.
85 caprice for winter... ghetto edition.
83 rabbit... drag racing only... maybe up to the local car show once or twice.


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

New Pictures of it in the car.








I decided to put the dash back in and rewire the whole car. The floor still needs work however.








I am very pleased with the performance and give most of the credit to Jose at porttuning.com for the nice job on the head.
http://pic5.picturetrail.com/V...3.jpg
The engine starts making power at about 3500 RPM, The full surge of power comes at 4800 RPM and stays on all the way to 8100 RPM. That is were I have my rev limit set, but the head / cam / carbs are still breathing well and making power so I don't really know when it runs out. I have not juiced it yet. 
There is no doubt in my mind that the carbs where a good choice over non-ITB fuel injection.




_Modified by gearhead455 at 3:35 PM 10-6-2003_


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## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

Looks amazing Dude..
Glad to hear it pulls well. are you going to get it dyno'd i'd love to see what it makes with and without nitrous.. 
I've got to go back and finish my dash and wiring.. cut out the side impact beams in the front doors etc.. not sure where else i could shave some weight.
I'll probably dyno in the spring but i'd love something to compare to


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## sidejam (Feb 24, 2001)

Looks great!!!
Just out of curiosity, what kind of header or exhaust manifold are you running? I'm curious if it's a 4-1 style since you're buzzing it up to such a high rpm.


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (sidejam)*

1 5/8" primary thermal wrapped Techtonics race header.


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## vwrallygolf (Oct 7, 2003)

where do you get the manifold for the DCOE's??? is that something made for the 8v ?? what all does the swap from digi take???


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## dbreid (Jan 29, 2003)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

Gearhead! Looks great! Which Fuel Pump/Regulator/gauge are you running. I am trying to decide the best setup to feed my DCOEs and THomas said I should ask you how you like your setup. I have been looking at the Carter 4070, but they say to run it with no regulator, and that kinda scares me....
Advice?
-Dan


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (vwrallygolf)*

You can get the manifold from piercemanifolds.com for the 8V.


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (dbreid)*

I have a stock FI CIS pump (damn thing could feed a big V8!) feeding a 3 port Mallory bypass style into a Weber style regulator. I only feed the carbs 4-3 PSI and the N2O 4-12 PSI (whatever I need for the ratio).
The carter 4070 is a great pump but the pressure should not exceed 6 PSI on a weber carb.


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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

Gearhead have you ever tried a facet pump? I have used these for years without a problem. kinda got hooked on them messing around with the ALFA tuners in Baltimore


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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: (the12for12)*

REwired the whole car ? which approch did you use? Dana and I are doing the same upgrade with our cars, so your input is appreciated.
icandigit,
Thomas


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (the12for12)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the12for12* »_Gearhead have you ever tried a facet pump? I have used these for years without a problem. kinda got hooked on them messing around with the ALFA tuners in Baltimore









The twin DCNF Fiat that I built uses a Facet pump. It works well to feed dual carbs (hella cheep too!). But I need more pressure to feed the nitrous cheater so I used the CIS pump. 
I used the painless fuse block #30001 and cannibalized the old harness for wire.








It's only $90 through Summit Racing.



_Modified by gearhead455 at 5:46 PM 10-8-2003_


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## dbreid (Jan 29, 2003)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

Gearhead,
Thomas and I are BOTH using the painless setup as well! That is what I like to hear. Did you buy just the block, or the whole "kit?" I am leaning toward the 18 circuit, just in case I need it down the raod. It is either that or the 12 circuit. Thomas went with the 12...
How's the quality?
-Dan


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (dbreid)*

Well for what I need it for the 12 Circuit is plenty, I only used 10 circuits on the whole car. I kept the front and rear body/lighting harness. Everything under the dash is re-worked. The quality of the block is awesome, all the circuits worked the first attempt. The directions are well illustrated and easy to understand. Save the $150 and just use wires and connectors from the OEM harness. Remove the terminals of the circuits you do not wish to use from the OEM connectors. This will save money and time.


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## dbreid (Jan 29, 2003)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

Yeah, I thought about that, but I am not in a rush, and REALLY want to make each circuit its own harness. That way, as my project evolves, I will be less likely to "leave it in." I also want to add a relay panel, and leave room for adding new things. I am glad to hear quality is good. Painless is a good company.
-Dan


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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: (dbreid)*

GREAT minds think alike http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Painless all the way !!
Facet wins in my corner too, but I'm interested to try the FPR /CIS route. Gearhead cue me in on any flaws or upgrades that combination needs just for the record. I noticed the hoses and fuel line.


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (the12for12)*

The fuel lines where a little bit of a PITA from the regulator. There are metric , pipe, and AN fittings all on the same regulator







.
The Nitrous fuel manifold will be removed often for jetting and flow testing. So I wanted a un-screwable fuel line that would be fast to remove and would not wear out. I found that removing the fuel line several times on a barbed fitting with a hose clamp sometimes caused leaks over time. The blue line between the carbs was made so it would not interfere with the first DCOE jet changes. Plus I had stuff laying around. I mostly used push on connectors rated to 250 PSI with earls blue fuel line.
The braided AN lines do look bling bling though.


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## brinskan (Jan 21, 2000)

very nice..... 
i gotta getback to my rabbit, stupid vr6


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## Yellow Snow (Mar 20, 2003)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (gearhead455)*

That motor is sick http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (Veedub4me)*

http://www.porttuning.com


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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: New Pics: DCOE's n' Nitrous (gearhead455)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1064359 
Gearhead you got this forum covered so I'll start with the MK1 forum http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm trying a few differant things with the motor this time, so chime in to get the ball rolling. My whole point for posting is to stir up more DCOE conversation thru the vortex








righton,
Thomas


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## 16Valvn (Aug 19, 2003)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

What are you using for Ignition? and what kind of compression are you running?
Erik


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (16Valvn)*

Stock ignition. 
Only 10:1 because of the nitrous.


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## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

I'm kinda new to the whole nitrous thing.. why is there an issue running nitrous and higher compression?


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

*Re: (the12for12)*

gearhead, what cam are you running?


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (CdnDub)*

Compression is a factor with nitrous as it is a factor with boost. Depending on the compression and the shot will determine the ignition timing and the octane of fuel to be used. I would like to run a 100 shot and with 10:1. I think I can get the job done with unleaded racing fuel (100 octane) with about 4 degrees of ignition retard. The unleaded fuel will allow me to run my wideband O2.


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (dohc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dohc* »_gearhead, what cam are you running?

Jose's at LR Engineering gets these monsters. All I know is it has WAY more lift (.550") and more duration than a Crane 300. "German Racing Camshaft" whatever that means.







. It has a special base circle for the shim under bucket conversion.


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## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

What do you guys think of a Kent 320 deg Solid lifter Cam for my 1.8L?
12:1 compression, ITB's, etc etc.. exhaust should flow enough for it.. not sure about the head tho.. its ported and polished but i've still got 8mm valve stems
Thinking about an upgrade over my 288TT cam. Motors built to rev happily at 8k..


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

*Re: (gearhead455)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gearhead455* »_
Jose's at LR Engineering gets these monsters. All I know is it has WAY more lift (.550") and more duration than a Crane 300. "German Racing Camshaft" whatever that means.







. It has a special base circle for the shim under bucket conversion. 

HOLLY CRAP!!!
I know your car is strictly a race car, but how does it idle, and at what RPM? Do you run a lightweight flywheel?


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (dohc)*

Idles a little rough not bad with a TT race front engine mount. Idle is about 850 - 900 RPM with only 10 degrees of advance at idle. This is where the DCOE shines, it can idle decent with almost NO vacuum at idle with little ignition advance. There is now way in hell stock injection could do that.


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

*Re: (gearhead455)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gearhead455* »_Idles a little rough not bad with a TT race front engine mount. Idle is about 850 - 900 RPM with only 10 degrees of advance at idle. This is where the DCOE shines, it can idle decent with almost NO vacuum at idle with little ignition advance. There is now way in hell stock injection could do that. 

I experienced the same with my rabbit with 38mm dhla's. I wonder if it's the same with ITB's? I would think so.
Also gearhead are you running a 2.0L, and light flywheel?


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: (the12for12)*

I would have ran the nitrous into the original injector holes.Looks sweet man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: (Bad Habit)*

Thats a neat idea.. i've heard tranny drain plugs will thread right in so you could tap 4 of em for nitrous nozzles


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (dohc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dohc* »_
I experienced the same with my rabbit with 38mm dhla's. I wonder if it's the same with ITB's? I would think so.
Also gearhead are you running a 2.0L, and light flywheel?

1.8L and a lightened flywheel


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (Bad Habit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bad Habit* »_I would have ran the nitrous into the original injector holes.Looks sweet man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I already had 90 degree foggers from a previous application.


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

gearhead, what kinda header are you running?


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (dohc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dohc* »_gearhead, what kinda header are you running?

TT Race 1 5/8" primary


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

You said once you were runing a modded Pacesetter (one your old setup), how did that work out?
I'm asking because I put alot of work into my bro's S&S (totally costum), and want to keep it for his future carb setup, but I'm afraid it won't flow enough.


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (dohc)*

The exhaust ports on the new head are just too big for the Pacesetter. The 1 1/2 primaries where too small with nitrous also. Nitrous injection creates an increased exhaust gas volume over N/A.


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## sidejam (Feb 24, 2001)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

Crap...
I just got my S&S header Cermacoated too.








I guess for now I'll just run a smaller shot of nitrous.


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## username (Mar 27, 2001)

*Re: (sidejam)*

you never brought it down to belle isle


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (username)*


_Quote, originally posted by *username* »_you never brought it down to belle isle









I got it all the way to East Grand blvd with the Caprice towing the rabbit on a dolly. The transmission overheated on the caprice, warped the valve body and the 2-4 band stuck on (no first no third). I quickly headed home in fear it would die in the ghetto.


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## username (Mar 27, 2001)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

ouch! sorry to hear that


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (username)*

Big trans cooler and a fluid flush...
It's fixed now. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Scirocco_Clan_Man (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (the12for12)*

ok guys, I'm an FI guy all the way, so I don't know much about carb setups, but I'm interested to learn.... so how much would something like that cost to do and how would u go about doing it, managing the whole system and installing...
The more info u can provide the better...
Thanks


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