# GTX Garrett billet turbo released in smaller sizes.



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

Has anyone seen the good news? Garrett finally released the GTX 30(71 and 76) and 3582R. 

Comp map comparisons look nice. Seems like a significant increase throughout the map.


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

GTX turbo info


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## turkishfast (May 12, 2009)

the charts are just awesome but after reading the topic below

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1936851

I decided to wait on customer feedback before dropping $1500 on these units


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

i agree, i see they flow very well and are responsive but stupid pricey :facepalm:


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## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

Stupid pricey?
I have a hta 3076 and msrp is 1750. I have a. 82 ar and I spool faster then a car I have in the shop with a t25 gt3071 with a .63. Properly designed billet turbos are well worth their money. Once you have one you will never go back.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

IMAN973 said:


> Stupid pricey?
> I have a hta 3076 and msrp is 1750. I have a. 82 ar and I spool faster then a car I have in the shop with a t25 gt3071 with a .63. Properly designed billet turbos are well worth their money. Once you have one you will never go back.



Exactly these are basically just factory versions of the HTAs, in theory you should get similar spool, similar increases in flow and factory reliability (not that anyone I know of has had a problem with the HTAs)

The price is inline with other companies billet turbos. 

People said/say the same thing about the GT series turbos vs older basic T3/T4 type turbos. Once you've gone through 3 T3 60 trims at 600 a piece you realize that the GT28RS for 1200 bucks wasn't a bad idea . These will have the reliability that has been come to be associated with the GTs with now factory billet wheel options for better flow and response. win win


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## turkishfast (May 12, 2009)

I am not complaining about the price but the reliability since these turbos are now made in Mexico and China. After reading the link I posted earlier it got me thinking. I have a gt28rs for 10K miles and had no issues at all just wanna make sure that I will be getting the same reliability from these new units.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

turkishfast said:


> I am not complaining about the price but the reliability since these turbos are now made in Mexico and China. After reading the link I posted earlier it got me thinking. I have a gt28rs for 10K miles and had no issues at all just wanna make sure that I will be getting the same reliability from these new units.


Until there is solid evidence of issues with the products made in some new plants it isn't really fair to cast judgment of a product just because of its country of origin. There are many many products that are made in Mexico and China that are of superior quality to facilities of the same country in supposedly superior countries. Heck people say German VWs are better than Mexican ones but oh wait almost all the problem parts on even the Mexican cars are built in Germany..

The company and management ensuring a quality of product has much more to do with the product as a whole than the actual location of the plant. The costs of Labor, the plant, materials etc can all be cheaper in certain parts of the world but it doesn't automatically mean the product itself is any lesser quality.

China gets associated, especially in the automotive world, with cheap knock off parts that can have many issues. But just because something is made in China doesn't automatically mean it is of lesser quality. 

If your issue was with losing American jobs and what not ok, but it's silly to question reliability based just on the location of the plant.


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Until there is solid evidence of issues with the products made in some new plants it isn't really fair to cast judgment of a product just because of its country of origin. There are many many products that are made in Mexico and China that are of superior quality to facilities of the same country in supposedly superior countries. Heck people say German VWs are better than Mexican ones but oh wait almost all the problem parts on even the Mexican cars are built in Germany..
> 
> The company and management ensuring a quality of product has much more to do with the product as a whole than the actual location of the plant. The costs of Labor, the plant, materials etc can all be cheaper in certain parts of the world but it doesn't automatically mean the product itself is any lesser quality.
> 
> ...


Geez, you seem pretty naive. China has never been known for engineering high quality top shelf products. They copy and steal our stuff, and sell it back for a fraction. They don't innovate, they imitate, and have no laws or rules regarding human rights or environment. Bout the only thing I can think of that's worth half a damn coming out of China is Hot and Sour soup, the rest is crap. No worries though, in the long run they'll destroy themselves in the name of greed.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

bostonaudi1 said:


> Geez, you seem pretty naive. China has never been known for engineering high quality top shelf products. They copy and steal our stuff, and sell it back for a fraction. They don't innovate, they imitate, and have no laws or rules regarding human rights or environment. Bout the only thing I can think of that's worth half a damn coming out of China is Hot and Sour soup, the rest is crap. No worries though, in the long run they'll destroy themselves in the name of greed.



HAHAHA

You start off your reply calling me naive but didn't actually read a single word I said just so you could go on your rant about China.

These turbos are not engineered in china, they are not copies of anyone's designs, they are 100% American designed by American engineers (ok maybe not all their engineers are "american"). They just moved some of their manufacturing to China since it is cheaper. If YOU build YOUR plant in china to YOUR specs with YOUR management there is no reason to assume the quality of the product would be any different than if it was produced anywhere else. This is done all the time by 10s of thousands of companies.

The thread I responded to appeared to be based on some notion that Garrett just contracted out the same company that is making knock offs of their products to product the real ones, that is not the case. Since his comments were based solely on quality of the product and not human rights or anything else that is all I responded to. He didn't have moral objections only quality. 

Helps to read what is actually being said before you go on some rant about others being naive.


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## T.D.B. (Aug 11, 2009)

so. . .

about those turbos. . .


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## 1.8t67 (Dec 7, 2008)

if anyone can show us how garrett turbos are suddenly junk, i'd be willing to read the arguement here. but noone can. their turbos are proven millions times over, oem, performance, etc. these turbos would be no exception.


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## turkishfast (May 12, 2009)

I guess no one read the link i have posted but anyways I am a big fan of garrett turbos so I guess I ll wait till consumer feedbacks are available before I decide on buying one of these units.

I'm building a 2067cc stroker motor and plan on using gt35r but since i seen the new compressor map for the gtx3076r I think it will suit dd better.It even soppose to out flow the hta3076r @57lb/min. If anyone uses this units please leave feedback of your experience on this thread.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

1.8t67 said:


> if anyone can show us how garrett turbos are suddenly junk, i'd be willing to read the arguement here. but noone can. their turbos are proven millions times over, oem, performance, etc. these turbos would be no exception.


Exactly anyone reading this who already who has a GT series turbo was made by honeywell. they bought Garrett over 10 years ago.

I read that post within a few days it was posted, its some angry stock room guy who got laid off until proven otherwise. A month later he comes back and says he is fedup and quit? sorry what company do you make a rant with claims like that about especially one that size and keep your job another 30+ days???

Show me proof of the quality issues...


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## 1.8t67 (Dec 7, 2008)

turkishfast said:


> I guess no one read the link i have posted but anyways I am a big fan of garrett turbos so I guess I ll wait till consumer feedbacks are available before I decide on buying one of these units.
> 
> I'm building a 2067cc stroker motor and plan on using gt35r but since i seen the new compressor map for the gtx3076r I think it will suit dd better.It even soppose to out flow the hta3076r @57lb/min. If anyone uses this units please leave feedback of your experience on this thread.


as chris said, this is likely an example of an employee who was facing layoff/termination, or had already been. then he lashed out, reaching for anything he could, in hopes someone would read into his story. anyone who is disgruntled as an employee can find negative aspects to lash out on with their employer. i take 99% of what i read online with a grain of salt.


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## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2009)

We have a customer with one of the much larger units in an is300 with supra running gear! :laugh:


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## hly (Sep 22, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> We have a customer with one of the much larger units in an is300 with supra running gear! :laugh:


Pat, please call me whenever APR has an upgrade to replace the 2860RS in the MK6 with a GTX turbo. I am very serious. I am a big fan of the billet turbo.


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

hly said:


> Pat, please call me whenever APR has an upgrade to replace the 2860RS in the MK6 with a GTX turbo. I am very serious. I am a big fan of the billet turbo.


Talk to Tony.  I have my 2871r - you could have them put a billet wheel in that and retune. Issue is that your a TSI and would prolly take some time for them to give a solid tune.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

sabba said:


> Talk to Tony.  I have my 2871r - you could have them put a billet wheel in that and retune. Issue is that your a TSI and would prolly take some time for them to give a solid tune.


TSI tune would take a day and would be solid.


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> TSI tune would take a day and would be solid.



Your such a sales man! We all have to crawl before we can walk. We all know what happens if you try and run before you can crawl.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Crawling was figuring out MED17 and making the first BT software within months of the TSI's release.  

TSI rod installs are unfortunately a huge pain in the butt. IIRC it's like 20 hours of labor and the whole motor must come out.


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

wow, really?

why so much diff. then the fsi engine? 

I am sure you will need injectors as well if someone went this route.

I am happy with my little turbo rocket, damn cold weather makes the turbo too efficient  
Second gear is hard to tame!


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## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2009)

The GTX turbos in the smaller frames are not getting that great of reviews. But there are other companies that are releasing some new Snail Technology that should be pretty wild! 

Nick- The FSI engine compared to the TSI engine is like comparing Apples to Oranges. 

In order to install Rods you have to remove the Trans because the Rear main seal is bolted to the upper half of the pan. If this didn't have to be done it would be cake to do it in the car. the Timing chains can be a little tricky. There are a bunch of special tools to get the timing chain and adjuster off. 

Then every bolt for the oil pump/upper pan, timing chain adjuster (Should) be replaced. All of the parts not including the rods costs about 600.00 just in seals, bolts, and sealant. 

Glad your enjoying your car! Next is fully built cylinder head!


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

hear that TSI owners.... bet you wish you had a FSI now, dont you!?! 
:laugh:


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## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2009)

Soon the TSI will really be beneficial ! Just gonna take some time 

Nick your inbox is full


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> The GTX turbos in the smaller frames are not getting that great of reviews. But there are other companies that are releasing some new Snail Technology that should be pretty wild!
> 
> Nick- The FSI engine compared to the TSI engine is like comparing Apples to Oranges.
> 
> ...



all around depressing post


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## hly (Sep 22, 2001)

Agreed, very depressing for us TSI folks.

Sorry to pollute the bandwidth in the FSI forum, but let me see if I understood properly:
Installing a GTX turbo in the TSI engine is very doable. 
And a custom tune from APR would take about one day.
Stage 3 is about at the limit for stock internals, so going bigger/better turbos would require at least upgraded rods which is about 2K to 2.5K in labor and misc parts alone, excluding the rods themselves.


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

hly said:


> Agreed, very depressing for us TSI folks.
> 
> Sorry to pollute the bandwidth in the FSI forum, but let me see if I understood properly:
> Installing a GTX turbo in the TSI engine is very doable.
> ...


Pretty much what I gathered. Almost better to ditch the GTI and get a better car than sink another 5k into it.


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

HalvieCuw said:


> Pretty much what I gathered. Almost better to ditch the GTI and get a better car than sink another 5k into it.


or you can spend 600 bucks and do them yourself.


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> or you can spend 600 bucks and do them yourself.


yeah sure.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

bostonaudi1 said:


> Geez, you seem pretty naive. China has never been known for engineering high quality top shelf products. They copy and steal our stuff, and sell it back for a fraction. They don't innovate, they imitate, and have no laws or rules regarding human rights or environment. Bout the only thing I can think of that's worth half a damn coming out of China is Hot and Sour soup, the rest is crap. No worries though, in the long run they'll destroy themselves in the name of greed.



Man... Do you really think these? Nothing goes out of China with good quality?

...OK!


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## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2009)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> or you can spend 600 bucks and do them yourself.


The VW special tools alone are $400.00


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> The VW special tools alone are $400.00


which ones? the head tool? the e socket to remove the oem rods? everything else was pretty much a bunch of torx. 

it cost me a little over 1k to do my rods in october.

i did Tbelt, rods, coated bearing, rings, honing, ARP head studs, all new gaskests.

there was plenty room to cut back on expenses if i were on a limited budget.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

hly said:


> Stage 3 is about at the limit for stock internals, so going bigger/better turbos would require at least upgraded rods which is about 2K to 2.5K in labor and misc parts alone, excluding the rods themselves.


I hope people are now realizing some of the original design considerations made when developing the APR stage III turbocharger system in 2008. 

Let's be honest, everyone want's power, but as always, it can come at some expense. Let's take a look at a few of those:

*Powerband*:
Essentially a larger turbocharger has the potential to make more top end torque, which will translated into big horsepower numbers towards redline. There are a few limits to this though which I will touch on in a second. 

If you choose a turbocharger that's too large, you'll limit your powerband. Waiting for a turbocharger to spool is boring. Around town power will be pretty weak and can be a big compromise. On the track it may not be the best if it's too large. At the drag strip it will probably be awesome, but that's about it.

Only now new turbo technology is emerging from top brand names in turbocharger sizes nearing the optima size for the 2.0 TSI. Yes, we can argue other turbo's with similar technology have existed for a while now, but not all were backed by the names of the largest and most trusted turbocharger manufactures in the world. 

*Fueling*:
This can be a 5 part issue (maybe more).

1. Injector size. If you have a larger turbocharger moving load of air, you'll need more fuel. You may reach a point the factory injectors are not enough. No one publicly sells an option.

2. Injector on-time at high RPMs. Often times, people will say "If I have a larger turbocharger with a smaller powerband, I'll just increase the redline." Naturally, you can run into issues of raising the redline as some other components may not stand up to the high RPM's, but another issue is injector on time. As you increase power towards redline, you'll need more fuel. If you don't have larger injectors, you'll need to spray the injectors longer to get the desired amount of fuel. As your increase RPM's you have shorter amount of time to spray the injectors. So it exponentially becomes an issue the higher you go in RPM's. You have more air and less time to spray fuel when you need more fuel and more time to spray!

3. High pressure fuel pump. Eventually you'll need a larger fuel pump. The FSI guys are familiar with this! No one publicly sells an option.

4. Low pressure fuel pump. Eventually you'll tax this item too and will need to increase it's size. Ask the FSI guys about this one too. Again, no TSI production applications for sale.

5. Fuel quality. You can't simply run more and more boost. You'll get to a point where you can't add any more ignition timing. Timing will be very low on pump fuel in high boost, high power applications. Low timing advance feels pretty weak. Low timing advance requires more fuel to keep EGT's low. Low timing advance with not enough fuel means lean and mean, high turbocharger killing EGT's. The only way to combat this is race fuel or some other additive. So while a big turbo can make lots of power on race fuel, on pump fuel it's not likely to be the greatest given some of it's tradeoffs. (before you say, "so what!?", consider all of the fueling/powerband/internals points)

*Internals*:
So who want's to be the first find the limit of the OEM rods? Raise your hands! Are they stronger than the FSI? They look to be but how far can you go? 

How bout the limit of the OEM head? Show of hands? How bout upgrade options? None. 

So, just add rods, and be happy with the smaller power band but more potential with race fuel, right? Well, now we know the answer to that one. Not only were none available a while back when the stage 3 kit was made, we knew this was not going to be a cheap and easy upgrade. The rods and replacement parts are expensive on their own... add in labor and you're in deep.

------

As you can see, there are a few variables that go into the whole equation. We chose a turbocharger that fit the bill in every category and does it for pennies on the dollar compared to the FSI thanks to great advances in factory fueling setups. The good thing is, if you have the cash to do rods, you can do so and pick up more power with our race gas programs. And, the APR stage III turbocharger system leaves room to grow for larger setups using new technology which is till emerging. 

These cars may not be 10 second drag strip race cars, but they are 4 cyl 2L engines which can have an ass load of power up top with plenty down low. That's _Performance Without Compromise™_.


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## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2009)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> which ones? the head tool? the e socket to remove the oem rods? everything else was pretty much a bunch of torx.
> 
> it cost me a little over 1k to do my rods in october.
> 
> ...


there are a few tools for the Camshaft Adjuster that are very expensive. Plus there is a tool for the Oil pump Tensioner. Anyone can install rods on a FSI since it doesn't need any special tools besides for the Headbolts.


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> *Powerband*:
> Essentially a larger turbocharger has the potential to make more top end torque, which will translated into big horsepower numbers towards redline. There are a few limits to this though which I will touch on in a second.
> 
> If you choose a turbocharger that's too large, you'll limit your powerband. Waiting for a turbocharger to spool is boring. Around town power will be pretty weak and can be a big compromise. On the track it may not be the best if it's too large. At the drag strip it will probably be awesome, but that's about it.


Aren't these new GTX turbos supposed to spool quicker than their regular counterparts? 



[email protected] said:


> Only now new turbo technology is emerging from top brand names in turbocharger sizes nearing the optima size for the 2.0 TSI.


Optimum size meaning gtx0371r, or smaller unreleased gtx2871/gtx2860?

How much more headroom do you guys have with the stock fueling system with stage 3? Will bigger injecters/ fuel pump be mandatory for whatever stage 3+ turns out to be?


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## jmw241 (Jun 6, 2009)

Well to keep this thread on track.....


I bought a GTX-3071R .62AR 4inch in-let

I'll be running it on my 1.8l B6 A4, stock motor for now. 

PSI Concepts full kit
3 inch single exit exhaust
Er comp fmic
fx-400
38mm tial wg with re-route
HKS Filter/Mafless
630's

Tuning the car myself with maestro, I already have everything but the turbo/mani/lines on the car, I tuned my ko3 and it runs well so I'm excited to tune this gtx . I'm hoping to make 280awhp at 15psi and run it that way for 3 months. Then build up the bottom end and do the valve train :-D. Crank up the boost to 28lbs and run some w/m and make 400-420 awhp and hit full boost by 4300. :-D 

Ill have the turbo on the car next week hopfully. I'v been waiting for about 3 weeks so far for Garrett to release these damn turbos.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

jmw241 said:


> Well to keep this thread on track.....
> 
> 
> I bought a GTX-3071R .62AR 4inch in-let
> ...


Little tech info behind the GTX billet turbo that I found on the net . Bob.G

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_arti...ook-at-the-new-garrett-gtx-turbochargers.aspx


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> there are a few tools for the Camshaft Adjuster that are very expensive. Plus there is a tool for the Oil pump Tensioner. Anyone can install rods on a FSI since it doesn't need any special tools besides for the Headbolts.


special tool for the oil pump tensioner?

i used a flat head and a 2mm allen to hold it in place.

then you need a triple square to remove the gear.

remove the gear and the pump comes right off.

the entire tear down and rebuild requires rounded allens, m10, e10, an array of T torx, and metric sockets.

what special tools are required?

oh and a torque wrench.


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## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2009)

there are a few tools for the Camshaft Adjuster that are very expensive. Plus there is a tool for the Oil pump Tensioner. *Anyone can install rods on a FSI* since it doesn't need any special tools besides for the Headbolts.

I was talking about the TSI Engine not the FSI


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> there are a few tools for the Camshaft Adjuster that are very expensive. Plus there is a tool for the Oil pump Tensioner. *Anyone can install rods on a FSI* since it doesn't need any special tools besides for the Headbolts.
> 
> I was talking about the TSI Engine not the FSI


sincerest apologies.

i didnt realize this was TSI talk.

take that superior fuel system nonsense to the TSI forums.

LOL


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

turkishfast said:


> I am not complaining about the price but the reliability since these turbos are now made in Mexico and China.


Texas/California USA?:thumbup:


[email protected] said:


> They look to be but how far can you go?


No Stronger.


[email protected] said:


> That's _Performance Without Compromise™_.


Love the "tm"


[email protected] said:


> How bout the limit of the OEM head? Show of hands? How bout upgrade options? None.


Oh Hi!


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## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2009)

No worries!


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

Any of you guys see what's up with those Borg Warner EFR series turbos? Billet comp wheels and titanium exhaust wheels.. I think they're going to be the most efficient turbos out. As for me I had a Garret, fked around with a precision and now back to a Garret... Sometimes newer technologies in turbos can be so appealing but it's nice to bolt a turbo on that you know you can trust. I'm sure the new Garret units will be nice though.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

If you have the means to fabricate a solution to use one of the EFR turbos, I'd try it out for sure. :thumbup:


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

http://www.turbodriven.com/files/pdf/efr_technical_data.pdf

I want this :biggrinsanta:

http://www.turbodriven.com/files/pdf/179392-EFRTechPages.pdf


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> If you have the means to fabricate a solution to use one of the EFR turbos, I'd try it out for sure. :thumbup:


Arin they come with a T25 flange


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

Great read :thumbup:

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_arti...id/1750/borgwarner-efr-turbo-feature-set.aspx


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Issam Abed said:


> Arin they come with a T25 flange


Some of them, yes. For it to be a drop in on the APR stage 3 setup, we'd need some custom fabrication or a new downpipe setup and possibly some changes to the turbo inlet hose.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Some of them, yes. For it to be a drop in on the APR stage 3 setup, we'd need some custom fabrication or a new downpipe setup and possibly some changes to the turbo inlet hose.



Waiting to see this! :beer::beer:

Beto


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

is anyone running one of these yet? Thread is 4 months old and not one set up yet...what a super fun platform


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

i forsee them not making much headway against the EFRs. 

there are a few threads on HT with guy making up to 100WHP switching from an HTA35R to a 8374. running the same boost, fuel, etc.


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