# where o where did my engine oil go...



## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

The Routan turned 3 years old today, so i decided to treat the old lady to a little lovin. Wash, Wax, Vacuum, clean some other odds n ends. 

everything was going good till (just for kicks i might add) i checked the oil. 

 pulled out the dip stick and it was DRY! Nothing!!!! 

The van has been driven just 3253 miles since the last oil change. 

I have been suffering from Oil consumption since 5K miles, and told the dealer every single time i went in for my "free" oil changes. 

I even had the PCV system serviced and PCV valves replaced last time at the dealer under warranty. 

I will be calling VWOA today and letting them know what i think! 


Check your oil level guys! 

Some VIDS:


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Can't tell from your profile which option package you have. Is this the 3.8L engine or the 4.0L? I believe the 3.8 has a known oil consumption issue that is fairly common. I haven't heard of the 4.0 having similar known issue.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

sorry, just a 3.8L here


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

redzone98 said:


> sorry, just a 3.8L here


 OK... 

Changed the Oil today, and discovered some serious issues. It is roughly 45 degrees out today, and sunny, so a great day to do the oil. I let the oil drain out for about 30 minutes, after starting the car up and letting it idle for about 5 minutes to bring up the oil temps. 

A cup of coffee later, and i went back out to the driveway to finish up.... this is where is gets serious. 

The oil catch pan was not filled at all, In fact it did not even fill the bottom completely!!! 

What was IN the catch pan was a black, thick, oil goo that resembled 90w gear oil. I have 38700 miles in it, and had my last change at the 35000 mile service done by the dealer. 

After scraping all the oil out of the oil catch pan, i put the old oil into a 5Qt Jug, and it filled to roughly 1.1 Qts. YES, 1 this engine was operating on 1 Qt of oil!!!! 


Im contacting my dealer and VWOA Monday AM.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

Bump for new vids


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

What does your coolant look like? Any oil in the radiator? 

I've never really had any reason to research this issue much, but I've heard anecdotal comments that the 3.8L motor has been known to have this oil consumption issue. I wonder what shows up on the Dodge/Chrysler forums. To only have maybe a quart+ of oil left on a motor that takes 5+ quarts, it seems like it would be smoking pretty bad from the tail-pipe if it were burning the oil. And obviously, if it were leaking you'd have an oil-slick in your garage floor. So it'd either be migrating or at the last oil change they drained it and didn't refill it. Actually, if they drained it and put the oil plug back on, and then never changed the filter or refilled it, I bet you'd have about a quart of oil remaining. Either way, VWoA needs to step up to the plate on this. Even if they do an oil change now and there's no readily apparent engine damage, it's likely damage has already been done and it might not show up for another 6 months or longer.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

yea, VWOA is getting a call today, also giving my dealer a call telling them what happened. I have been fighting this issue since my 3rd oil change, only because i had the dealers do the 1st and 2nd, and i did not even check the oil level since the car was so new. 

...I was thinking the head gasket might be done, but then again, the oil coming out of the car will be all milky.


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## Volvos Rock (Oct 13, 2011)

Gotta check the oil EVERY time you fuel the vehicle... If there was damage done it would be evident now. This is an odd one, our 3.8 uses virtually no oil (at 20k), and if it was happening alot this board and the Chrysler one would be singing with complaints. Head gasket would show oil/antifreeze mix and large amounts of white smoke from the tailpipe. Keep us updated and good luck with VWNA.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

Volvos Rock said:


> Gotta check the oil EVERY time you fuel the vehicle...


 haha, ironically, i took the vehicle to get gas, and thats what i checked it. The van is my Wife's Daily, so you know how that is :laugh:


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

ok, called VWoA and got my case # on this issue. 

they will call the Dealer, and me on a 3 way conference call tomorrow am between 9 and 930am. 


Kudos VW on this, getting it Done :thumbup:


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

I have the 4.0L engine and since we bought the vehicle last summer, I've checked the oil fairly regularly just so I know whether (or how much) it uses oil. We're on the second OCI since purchasing it, and 4k miles on the current oil change. When I checked it yesterday, I had to add nearly a full quart. This is new, b/c previously I hadn't needed to add oil between oil changes. The oil level was just barely above the minimum of "safe" level on the dipstick, so averted running it low. So thanks for bringing this up, RedZone98. 

This got me to googling last night, and lots and lots of hits come back on oil consumption with the Dodge Chrysler 3.8L motor, as well as on some Jeeps. Other than Chrysler maintaining that it is *not* outside "normal" for it to use 1 quart per 800-1000 miles , some of these other threads indicate a variety of potential causes. Check out the threads that google returns for dodgeforums and the ask.edmunds.com. One is PCV valve, and after-market ones in particular being no good immediately upon replacement. Some folks experienced no fix having PCV replaced the first time, only to have it replaced a second time and the problem went away. Insist on genuine MOPAR parts. Another possible cause theorized was synthetic oil being too "slick", and switching to synthetic blends or straight dino oil cured the problem. Then of course the oil rings. 

I would insist on getting VWoA to acknowledge the problem in writing and insist that they extend the warranty on anything motor related, and especially the catalytic system. The cat converter is working overtime if it's burning the oil. Is the inside of the tailpipe sooty? Might be worth having someone (if you're not comfortable yourself) pull the sparkplugs and see if they're oily too. 

Otherwise, it might be worth purchasing an extended warranty from either VWoA or a third party. A lot of consumer advocates frown on car warranties from third parties, but this is VW we're talking about here. A third party warranty would allow you to get the vehicle repaired at non-dealerships under warranty. But I'd first try to get VWoA to throw in their extended warranty so you're at least covered up to 100k (or 120k??) miles. 

Good luck, and post back how VWoA or your dealership handles the problem.


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

redzone98 said:


> ok, called VWoA and got my case # on this issue.
> 
> they will call the Dealer, and me on a 3 way conference call tomorrow am between 9 and 930am.
> 
> ...


 So what did they say or do?


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

Zambee500 said:


> So what did they say or do?


 I headed to the dealer and they set the car up with an "oil consumption test" VWoA called me back to verify that the test was done to the car... 

now its just a hurry up and wait game, gotta go back in 500 miles, i did notice that the dealer sealed the drain plug and dip stick with some kinda white goop


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## pefer (Apr 27, 2006)

Are you experiencing this with 5W20 oils?? 
What brand oil? 

It may be worth noting this in this thread, maybe there is some correlation.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

redzone98 said:


> I headed to the dealer and they set the car up with an "oil consumption test" VWoA called me back to verify that the test was done to the car...
> 
> now its just a hurry up and wait game, gotta go back in 500 miles, i did notice that the dealer sealed the drain plug and dip stick with some kinda white goop


 A user posted on chryslerminivan.net this same exact question, "Where's the oil?", so I chimed in figuring maybe some answers might pop up. Most guys seem to think oil consumption is normal. I think yours is excessive and you should be taken care of for it. But here's the link if you want to check any of it out. I feel bad for you redzone and was hoping to get you a sorta answer. 

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/22992-Where-s-the-oil 

Did they give you a scenario like if it uses a 1/2 a quart in 500 miles we'll do something, or we'll go another 500 and see where were at? A friend of my parents bought a brand new 87 Ford bronco with a 5.0 and it consumed oil like your 3.8. They eventually got a new short block when the dealer tore down the motor, the rings on one of the pistons were not clocked correctly. The gaps in the rings were only off a few degrees from each other, thus allowing the oil to burn. Oddly enough, no smoke from the tailpipe. I was just surprised at how guys shrugged it off and say they just carry a quart. I have the dealer do my oil changes on our Routan, but I check it frequently. But if I were putting Mobil 1 in it and I had to buy a quart every 1K at $6.50 a quart I'd be upset. That being said, if nothing comes out of it, I'd be running the cheapest costing oil. As long as it's full the cheap oil still has to make the grade. I could agree with a quart over the oil change but no more and definitely not in less miles for sure. On the other hand these 3.8's have been around for years and are proven tough, maybe even with little to no oil. Heck put some Slick 50 in it and see if you can get an endorsement deal, it already will run on a quart! 

Keep us posted.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

58kafer said:


> Did they give you a scenario like if it uses a 1/2 a quart in 500 miles we'll do something, or we'll go another 500 and see where were at?
> 
> Keep us posted.


the Dealer told me to return after 500-600 miles, they didnt give me a specific consumption amount, but they did say dont go over 600 miles before i return. I should be hitting that 500+ mile mark next week, so i will keep everybody updated [email protected]

thanks for the link its a big help!


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

redzone98 said:


> so i will keep everybody updated !


Please do. 

In those threads in the Dodge forums, folks were indicating that Chrysler corporate says it's within "normal" range for a ChryCo motor to use 1 qt. per 800-1000 miles. I hope VWoA doesn't subscribe to that same standard of "normal". Using the extreme numbers (per 800 miles with the max 6000 mile OCI), I can't imagine having to add 7.5 quarts between oil changes on a vehicle with an oil capacity of only 5.5 quarts.:screwy: With those numbers, I guess you'd just have to remember to change the filter every 6k miles and keep on motoring.


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## paf (Dec 6, 2010)

it seems that car mfg's are turning out 2 cycle engines lately.

Our A5 gulps 1 quart per 3,000 miles and there are cases (reported by others) where the consumption is as bad as 1 quart per 800 mi. Audi says it's expected for a 2.0 engine to use 1 quart per 5K. That makes us 2K short... heh...

The Routan (2010 3.8L) is doing fine at 15K. No missing oil (yeey) but checking the oil frequently is EXTREMELY important!


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

paf said:


> it seems that car mfg's are turning out 2 cycle engines lately.



haha, yea rite !

she will hit the 500 mile mark this week, i will see what happens...

with my past experiences with all dealers of every make, they will dismiss it as "normal"


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## FCBamberg (Nov 16, 2009)

I have a '09 3.8L SE with only 17,000 miles. Yesterday I had to panic stop and the oil indicator flashed. I thought, "Oh sh...." Checked the oil when I got home, nothing on the dipstick. Had to add 2 1/4 quarts to bring it into the "safe" zone on the stick. Looks like I'm in the same boat as redzone98. Taking the Croutan to the dealer next week....


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

redzone, check your PMs.


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## ReDGTI2EnVy (Oct 21, 2005)

take it to the dealer and call VWOA .. I'm having the same problem but now my engine has to be replaced. They can't explain why there was NO OIL at all in the tank. I say don't drive it and have them exchange the vehicle. I believe soon enough there will be a class action against VW for this issue.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

ReDGTI2EnVy said:


> take it to the dealer and call VWOA .. I'm having the same problem but now my engine has to be replaced. They can't explain why there was NO OIL at all in the tank. I say don't drive it and have them exchange the vehicle. I believe soon enough there will be a class action against VW for this issue.


Tomorrow will be D-Day for the Croutan, Im heading to the dealer with a 10am appointment.

What Ever Happens tomorrow, i will *not *be driving away from the dealer with my van. Albeit in a Rental car, or a new (non-vw) car.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

Went to the dealer today, and talked with the Service manager for about 35 minutes. Turns out the Routan is consuming oil... but not enough to warranty anything! Managed to eat just .36 of a Qt in the 800 miles that i drove it.

Im at a absolute loss for words here. I feel that VW with their "one QT per 1000" mandate is a joke. Especially since they expect this car to go 5000 miles between oil changes. Im done with this Van. Im done with VW. 

:banghead:


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Sorry to hear the bad new Redzone. It is unfortunate that most mfg's follow this or some guideline like the 1/1000. Almost makes you want to just keep adding a quart when needed and at 6K just pop a new filter on and toss a quart in it!


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

yea, it is a damn shame that dealers are so fast to dismiss problems after purchase. unless its a obvious problem, ie failure, they dont do a ****ing thing

I will go back to the "old skool" on this motor. using 10-30 non synthetic. And go 3K on the oil changes. Since it IS an old American Push-Rod motor, i need to treat it as such


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## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

Interestingly, over a week ago I was preparing for a family vacation and so I checked the oil and went about my usually preparation. The oil was down to just under the bottom line on the dip stick. That is below the safe range. I took it into the dealer to check. The dealer said that between the top and bottom mark is only 1/2 quart and not too worry about it. I didn't give it too much thought since they were doing an oil change anyway and since I was going on vacation I could monitor it and see what it does. We traveled about 2k miles and the oil has dropped about 1/4 down the top safe mark. However, I noticed when I checked the oil on the day we were leaving that they overfilled the oil. The oil was about 1/4 inch above the top line. Compensating for the overfill, in 2k miles the oil dropped about 1/3 of the way down from the top mark. Assuming it drops at this same rate, I would expect to be around the bottom safe mark or 1/4 above it by the time I need an oil change. All that said, there are some variables that I will need to eliminate. For example, I checked the oil at the hotel and it may not have been level. I checked the oil in the garage on the day we left. I will need to check it again tomorrow morning in the garage to get a consistent measurement. Also to check it at the same time and with a completely cold engine. Finally, I will buy a quart of oil and check to see how much the mark will move using 1/2 quart of oil. I will monitor for a couple weeks to see what happens from here.

I used to have a Dodge Durango and it burned oil a lot. Like 1 quart every 2k miles. I remember the chrysler dealer saying that was normal for a 100k mile engine.


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Anecdotal evidence is the oil consumption (for engines that have the mysterious problem) is much worse on highway miles for some reason. I've seen that mentioned here and elsewhere particularly with respect to the 3.8L engine. Our 4.0L did seem to use quite a bit of oil during the OCI where we drove Georgia to upstate NY and back, whereas the previous OCI that was mixed city/hwy "local" driving didn't use any oil.

If I were in Redzone's shoes and had a long roadtrip coming up, I'd go back to the dealership and demand/beg for another oil consumption test. I'll bet consumption would be greater if the 500 or 1000 miles of the test were all hwy miles.

Different motors, so who knows, but I had to add almost a full quart to get the level back to the top of the "safe" line on the dipstick, and it wasn't quite to the bottom of the "safe" line when I added it. I'd just be surprised that the total safe range is only a half-quart, particularly when capacity is 5-5.5 quarts on these vans and not


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

Zambee500 said:


> If I were in Redzone's shoes and had a long roadtrip coming up, I'd go back to the dealership and demand/beg for another oil consumption test. I'll bet consumption would be greater if the 500 or 1000 miles of the test were all hwy miles


My last Oil change was using 5w-30 conventional oil. Which is much different than the 5w-20 Syn that VW uses. Also i Used Mobil and the dealer uses Castrol.

It is BS that the dealer did not change the oil before the test. They used what was IN the car at the time. and just marked the dip stick on the start of the test. This test is useless because im using thicker oil than what VW has been putting in the thing for the last 33K miles.

Im going to start fresh next oil change, and use a 5w-30 again, conventional oil again also. And I will do my OWN test. Documented in this thread.


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## marlinsfan (Jun 10, 2009)

Holy crap. I just saw the videos, was that really motor oil or is it raw oil that came out of the well!

Took the wife's 09 SE/RSE in for 36k service a few weeks ago. The oil light had gone on a few days before. Car was almost out of oil, and the dealer told me about the same 1 qt/ 1000 mile consumption. Last service had been done at 29k as we were going on a long road trip, so it went 7k miles between oil changes.

Do all dealers use 5w-20 synthetic? He toldme to top it off at 3k intervals between the 6k service intervals.


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

marlinsfan said:


> Car was almost out of oil, and the dealer told me about the same 1 qt/ 1000 mile consumption.





marlinsfan said:


> He toldme to top it off at 3k intervals between the 6k service intervals.


:facepalm: I believe the 3.8L has a 5 qt. capacity (the 4.0L has 5.5 qt. capacity). I think I'd top off a bit before burning off 60% of the vehicle's oil capacity. I'd be checking it at every fill-up, and probably topping off at every-other if my vehicle were consuming the "not abnormal" amount of 1 qt. per 1000 miles.


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

And the :facepalm: wasn't aimed at you, marlinsfan, but rather at the dealership. Math isn't his strong suit.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

After becoming Aware of this issue, i check the oil every weekend. I guess having VW doing the scheduled oil changes masks this issue from owners until your 40K miles in.

By then your about 3 years into the car, and its worthless.


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## marlinsfan (Jun 10, 2009)

Do all dealers use 5w-20 synthetic? 

And what happens if I don't put in the exact oil weight when I top it off?


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Not sure about what dealers use. I think there's largely been a move to exclusive use of synthetics at VW, but not sure if the other gassers use 5w20. If 5w20 is unique to Routans at VW dealerships, they may use conventional oil since synthetic is not req'd for Routans. But if other VW gassers use 5w20, and the VW spec requires synthetic, then they might just use synthetic on the Routan too for commonality of 5w20 oil stock.

It won't blow up if you mix oil weights when you top off, but I've always read it's generally a good idea to top off with the exact same oil (brand, wieght, etc.) because of additives and detergents.

If my shoes, I'd probably switch to 5w30 and if it continues to consume oil like crazy then definitely switch to a conventional Castrol or Pennzoil. Or a blend. No sense burning off $8 quarts of Mobil 1 or anything like that.

Maybe talk to your mechanic about changing the PCV valve and use genuine Mopar. Any oil on your air filter? If so, maybe bad CVV?


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

Zambee500 said:


> Maybe talk to your mechanic about changing the PCV valve and use genuine Mopar. Any oil on your air filter? If so, maybe bad CVV?



Already had the CVV replaced by the dealer. I also replaced the PCV 6 months ago, with a Mopar piece.only because every retail parts store did NOT stock the part! 12$ for that stupid thing!

Im switching out to a nice good ol' 10w30 conventional in a few weeks and will monitor consumption.


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## marlinsfan (Jun 10, 2009)

As stated before, I had oil changed at 36k miles and the advisor told me to check oil level every 3k miles, as consumption of about 1 qt for every 1k miles was deemed normal. Sure enough, car hit 39k, I checked the oil and ended up putting 2 qts of oil in there.

I really can't believe this is normal. We had been thinking of keeping the car for many years, as my wife really likes it, but I'm starting to wonder if that is a good idea.


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## pefer (Apr 27, 2006)

marlinsfan said:


> As stated before, I had oil changed at 36k miles and the advisor told me to check oil level every 3k miles, as consumption of about 1 qt for every 1k miles was deemed normal. Sure enough, car hit 39k, I checked the oil and ended up putting 2 qts of oil in there.
> 
> I really can't believe this is normal. We had been thinking of keeping the car for many years, as my wife really likes it, but I'm starting to wonder if that is a good idea.



I understand that it sucks - oil -:laugh:
Check oil level every other fill up of gas/ or often, you will know how often to check.... keep the oil topped off, so it does not run low or dry on oil, the engine will last.

Maybe go up a grade, 5w30, 10w30, or even 15w40 in brutal summer heat with long drives, stay away from the 20 weights. This should help control oil consumption.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

marlinsfan said:


> As stated before, I had oil changed at 36k miles and the advisor told me to check oil level every 3k miles, as consumption of about 1 qt for every 1k miles was deemed normal. Sure enough, car hit 39k, I checked the oil and ended up putting 2 qts of oil in there.
> 
> I really can't believe this is normal. We had been thinking of keeping the car for many years, as my wife really likes it, but I'm starting to wonder if that is a good idea.


Im in the same boat, i love this Van, it fits all my needs of my family for this point in my life. BUT, eating Quart upon Quart of oil for a modern car is not 'normal'

I smell class action lawsuit


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## marlinsfan (Jun 10, 2009)

redzone98 said:


> Im in the same boat, i love this Van, it fits all my needs of my family for this point in my life. BUT, eating Quart upon Quart of oil for a modern car is not 'normal'
> 
> I smell class action lawsuit


We ended up trading in the Routan for an Odyssey this weekend.....


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

marlinsfan said:


> We ended up trading in the Routan for an Odyssey this weekend.....


 what did they give you for the Routan?


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## early74B (Feb 18, 2009)

redzone98 said:


> what did they give you for the Routan?


 +1 -- looking at other makes to possibly replace our '09 Routan SEL, of course many factors come into play including how flexible the dealer is ... as its very easy to do, I plan to 'detail' my '09 and then get a baseline trade value from our local Carmax. I know its only a wholesale price but have done this once before and was a good leverage point when trading another car in (again was changing makes); sometimes going for the same brand helps sometimes it can hurt as the dealer may have a large supply of your used car trade in and doesn't need anymore; as before feel free to PM me if you prefer ... would also be good to see what equip level and mileage you had at time of trade in 

NOTE: with a SEL we have the 4.0L and checked the oil before a long trip, it was still in the 'safe' zone but needed about 1/2 Quart about 4K past the last oil change so no real concern on using much oil


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## Talareno (Jun 5, 2003)

Since the rings require some oil be present on the cylinder wall for lubrication some oil will be consumed when the fuel-air mix burns since it's directly exposed to combustion. You can't completely strip oil from the cylinder wall or metal-to-metal contact will occur & the engine will seize. Some oil is inevitably "consumed" in this way. It's necessary to check oil level in between oil changes & add oil if necessary; I try to check once a month. 

I'd heard of the 1 qt/1k mile oil consumption spec when being trained as a GM tech but that was considered the upper limit w/ a normal engine being below that. A lot of variables go into oil consumption including viscosity, oil quality, city vs. highway driving, ambient temperatures etc. Driving short trips in cold weather will tend to cause oil level to rise since unburnt fuel gets into the oil -- you are "making" oil; then if you go on a high speed trip the fuel in the oil quickly dissipates & it may seem like your engine consumed an excessive amount of oil all of a sudden. Some engines seem to "consume" very little oil (the 8v in my '86 Golf) & others require topping up every 1000 miles (1.8T in my Passat). 

If your engine has been operated w/ an oil level significantly below the safe mark then some damage may have occurred; the engine internals would need to be examined to check this. Or you could have a couple of oil scans performed at the next two normal oil changes to check for unusual wear metals; much cheaper then tearing the engine down.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

I had a 2003 Ford Escape with 158K miles on it. and that thing did not use a single drip of oil after 5,000 Miles. 5 Qts in 5 Qts out.


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## marlinsfan (Jun 10, 2009)

redzone98 said:


> what did they give you for the Routan?


Sorry, I didn't see this and I didn't get an email. They offered $14500. Which is higher than KBB trade in value. I owed $14100. it was 09 Routan SE RSE with Climate package, 39000 miles. Original tires with 31000 miles (8000 miles on the snow tires). I had replaced rear brake pads last summer. Front pads and rotors needed replacing, plus all the issues I mentioned in the other thread.


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## early74B (Feb 18, 2009)

marlinsfan said:


> Sorry, I didn't see this and I didn't get an email. They offered $14500. Which is higher than KBB trade in value. I owed $14100. it was 09 Routan SE RSE with Climate package, 39000 miles. Original tires with 31000 miles (8000 miles on the snow tires). I had replaced rear brake pads last summer. Front pads and rotors needed replacing, plus all the issues I mentioned in the other thread.


 I was looking for your response on this as well ... what's that end up being about 50% of original MSRP? Best of luck with your Odyssey; been too busy to check on my resale value but will report it here as well (mine is also an '09 but SEL with remote start and navi, has 22K miles now)


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## Kola_Trinco (May 1, 2012)

*....here is where the oil going.*

Folks, I understand all of your pain, since I went thru the same. The PCV valve already replaced & didnt do any good. Finally VW found the issue. After repeated complains, VW came out with the solution. The dealer was asked to perform a "Compression Leak Down Test" to find the 5th & 6th CYL loosing compression thru intake valves (due to valve not seated properly - worn out). The CYL head & EGR valve replaced, as per the note. Oil leak yet to be confirmed, but I feel a big difference in the power (because I was driving all these days only with 4 CYL it looks). Mine is 2009 Routan with only 30K one. Hope this will help folks. I regret why I purchased Routan. VW has spoiled their hard earn name by placing the Crysler Engine.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

My Last oil change i used a 10w30 conventional oil. Mobil Reg oil. I have driven 1800 miles and the oil level is now at the bottom of the "safe level" 

I will top her off tonight, but she is still eating oil, conventional does seem to slow it down.


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## Jetta_A4 (May 4, 1999)

WHOA, just been alerted to this problem on our 2010 3.8L when wife said warning light was coming on. Sure enough, after hard stop oil light would come on briefly. I just added 3 (three) quarts of oil to bring it to SAFE level. Like others here, oil changes have been at dealer so we never knew about high oil consumption.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

Jetta_A4 said:


> oil changes have been at dealer so we never knew about high oil consumption.


 
EXACTLY !! all my changes were done at the dealer, going the recommended 5K Miles, GOD only knows what the oil looked like when it was coming out of this engine ! 

Call VWoA and let them know!!! 

VWoA 1-800-822-8987


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

I can't imagine the oil consumption started suddenly between OCIs. I mean it's pretty hard to fathom that there was no oil consumption during all the previous 5k OCIs and then all of a sudden it was 3 quarts low at the next OCI. That's 60% low!! The dealership should have been marking or noting the oil level on the invoices at each oil change, so if they failed to note that it was low then you should have full warranty coverage (indefinitely, IMO) for any engine damage related to low oil. I would demand that in writing from VWoA and/or the dealership. 

I just don't think the service manager would be able to look you in the eye and say that it's perfectly normal for an engine to have no oil consumption for thousands upon thousands of miles, and then suddenly lose 60% of the oil during the next OCI *AND* that it's perfectly within VW's SOP for dealerships not to note that on invoices for oil changes. The only other logical conclusion is even worse - that the dealership failed to add the proper amount of oil.


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## Jetta_A4 (May 4, 1999)

Yeah, at a minimum I should let the dealer know that when I pulled the dipstick this morning, the oil was just barely touching the dipstick; one drop. The CRoutan (hah) has about 24k miles. 

Good point Zambee, at this point I'm just assuming it's high oil consumption. Possibly the dealer didn't fill it, or, the engine has developed an oil leak (undetected so far).


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

Jetta_A4 said:


> Yeah, at a minimum I should let the dealer know that when I pulled the dipstick this morning, the oil was just barely touching the dipstick; one drop. The CRoutan (hah) has about 28k miles.
> 
> Good point Zambee, at this point I'm just assuming it's high oil consumption. Possibly the dealer didn't fill it, or, the engine has developed an oil leak (undetected so far).


 "Jetta_A4" 

This problem is all over Vortex, and the Jeep Forums! There is a defect in the assembly of the Valve Stem oil Seals. There is no Leak, no under-fill of oil from the technicians. It is just a poor quality control at Chrysler. And VW needs to know about it.


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## Jetta_A4 (May 4, 1999)

Gotcha. Took it in for 24k service and told tech about the three quarts of vanishing oil. He acknowledged that high oil use is a known issue on this model. Wants me to bring it back after 600 mi for oil measurement.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Has anyone approached the dealer and asked for a leak down test yet? As Kola_Trinco posted a few posts up, they replaced the head on his Routan. And perhaps it would shed some light into the issue. Has anyone pulled their spark plugs to check for oil fouling, or at least discoloration among the other plugs. He might not be on here often but perhaps he could supply you with his paperwork to bolster your complaint to your dealer and to VWOA. This really does suck for the 3.8 owners. 

Here is a doc that Chrysler follows: 


Here is the official Chrysler Star case for Oil consumption. This is exactly what the dealer will refer to when your vehicle is brought in for service. 

Case Number 999926737 
Vehicle Issue 
Suspected excessive engine oil consumption, burns oil, uses oil, with no leaks found.;Applies to most Chrysler Corporation models unless otherwise specified. Excessive engine oil usage or consumption suspected. 
System or Component Abnormal Behavior / Function,Consumption / Oil Level Low But No Leak;Customer Concern (No DTCs);Engine Oil 
Recommendation 
NORMAL OIL CONSUMPTION: Below are industry standards for normal engine oil consumption: Mileage below 50,000: Normal oil consumption is one quart for each 1,000 miles driven. Mileage above 50,000: Normal oil consumption is one quart for each 750 miles driven. TEST TO DETERMINE ENGINE OIL CONSUMPTION: Operate engine to normal operating temperature. Fill engine oil precisely to FULL mark on dip stick gauge. Use paint pen to mark the engine oil drain plug to prevent tampering. Check engine oil level after 1.000 miles driven. Refer to normal engine oil consumption listed above. POSSIBLE CAUSES FOR EXCESSIVE ENGINE OIL CONSUMPTION: PCV OR CCV SYSTEM: Check the crankcase ventilation system for proper operation. Oil may accumulate in the throttle body or intake manifold. Also, rocker arm lubrication oil flow returns to oil pan through drainback holes in top of cylinder head. Plugged or restricted oil drainback holes may contribute to excessive oil in crankcase ventilation system. SPARK PLUGS: Examine all spark plugs to identify the affected cylinder(s). Spark plug on the affected cylinder(s) will usually be fouled or wet with engine oil. VALVE GUIDES AND VALVE STEM SEALS: Inspect valve guides on the affected cylinder(s). Replace valve stem seals on the affected cylinder(s). PISTON RINGS: Check piston rings on the affected cylinder(s). Piston rings may be too tight / worn / broken / carbon build up in the oil control ring. CYLINDER WALL: Examine the cylinder wall on the affected cylinder(s). Cylinder wall may be severely scuffed. Perform hone procedure on the cylinder wall or replace cylinder block / short engine assembly as required. 

Modification Date 08/25/09 10:44 AM 


About 1 qt per 1000 is normal, considering oil change intervals are getting longer and longer in the industry this is something to think about. Technically on a 6,000 mile oil change with a 6 qt system it would be "acceptable" to possibly have no oil left by the time the vehicle is due for service. 
__________________ 
-Dustin 
Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge Master Technician 


Found that in this link:http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f96/2007-wrangler-x-burning-lots-oil-857090/


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

58kafer said:


> Has anyone approached the dealer and asked for a leak down test yet?


According to VWoA : the Leak down test is the 2nd step in the warranty process. First you need to Fail (or pass) the high consumption test of 1 Qt per 1K miles. Then The leak down test will be administered.

Im on my 2nd oil consumption test for this car, last time i was consuming, according to the dealer, 1Qt per 1600 miles.

I dont know HOW they determined this because i took this PIC last week.... this oil has 1600 miles on it... and it was 10-30 conventional oil...

so Something is not rite!











roughly 3.25Qts OUT of the motor after 1600 miles. I drained the oil for almost 30 minutes, and drained the oil filter for about 10 minutes. It was about 85 Deg out, and the motor was cool.

the 1Qt per 1000 miles is "Normal" is just a ridiculous statement. My 2011 Ford Fiesta Spec is 10,000 Miles between Changes. According to Chysler, this car would be "OK" to run with no oil for 6,000 miles :facepalm:


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

redzone98 said:


> the 1Qt per 1000 miles is "Normal" is just a ridiculous statement. My 2011 Ford Fiesta Spec is 10,000 Miles between Changes. According to Chysler, this car would be "OK" to run with no oil for 6,000 miles :facepalm:


Yeah, well, that's for Fords. For Chryslers, you can only run the motor "up to" *500 miles* without any oil and that's okay. Burning up to 1 qt. per 1k miles is okay, with "up to" 6k mile OCIs, and 5.5 qt. total oil capacity. That leaves, I think, 1/2 (or 0.5) qt short for that last 500 miles. So Chrysler is saying you can drive it 500 miles without any oil. If I understand correctly. Must be some new Fiat mathematics formula or something - not sure exactly how they carry over their "ones" when adding and multiplying.

Happy motoring. (And it'll be happier with AAA Gold, Super-Duper towing plan.)


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

Zambee500 said:


> Happy motoring. (And it'll be happier with AAA Gold, Super-Duper towing plan.)



Im signing up for AAA today~!


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

OK its time for another installment of the Routan Oil Fandango...

I got the results back from the Oil consumption test this time around (2nd go around)

And scored a fantastic score of .7x QT consumed @ 572 Miles. 

VWoA and the dealer and going to perform yet ANOTHER Oil consumption test!

this time they really want to make sure i guess.

If I fail (or pass?) the Oil test this 3rd time around, they are doing some other Mystery test (probably a cyl leak down test).

I was speaking with a Reagional Case manager on this today, and turns out they(VW) have already replaced several motors recently with bad Piston Rings !

Willlll the Routan van go under the knife in hopes to fix the problem, or will there be yet another mystery oil test in the works,

well Stay TUNED for another thrilling episode !!!

:banghead:


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## Whosthatguy (Aug 6, 2005)

> VWoA and the dealer and going to perform yet ANOTHER Oil consumption test!
> 
> this time they really want to make sure i guess.
> 
> ...


wanted to know how did it go with the 3rd round since this was posted last year, hoping you still have the van 

i just bought the routan for the family and started reading up this routan forums last saturday then been reading every post about the oil consumption. anyone got a update on this ?


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## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

Whosthatguy said:


> wanted to know how did it go with the 3rd round since this was posted last year, hoping you still have the van
> 
> i just bought the routan for the family and started reading up this routan forums last saturday then been reading every post about the oil consumption. anyone got a update on this ?


I noticed oil consumption of about 1/2 quart between oil changes. I started doing my own oil changes about six months ago. I use 10w30 mobile one synthetic and a bosch filter. Very easy to do compared to some of my other vehicles. I check the oil and add about one month into my changes. I did notice oil consumption a while back. But nothing drastic ever. Engine has about 67k now and runs great.


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