# buying oil and filters online



## shdwmkiv (Mar 11, 2010)

is it smart to buy oil and filters in bulk online?

i've been thinking of going to ecs for my oil and filters since my local autozone only has 5w-30 and sometimes doesnt have any oil filters and vw recommends 5w-40.

is it worth it?


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## skier45 (Jul 27, 2009)

*buying oil on line*

Check out Germanfilters.com They carry mann filters, fuchs and total oil in all vw specs and viscosities.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

What VW recommends and what you need for your climate and driving cycle are two different things, unless you are going on the Garden State Parkway for hours at 130 mph. 

Since you mentioned AutoZone, every one I ever went to carried German Syntec 0w-30, which NEVER appeared on VW 502 recommended lists, but was ironically factory-fill in the 1.8t. A thick Euro 30 weight, much more ideal going into winter than heavy 5w-40.



















I don't think you are digging enough for 5w-40 either, as they also carry one of the best, Shell Rotella T Synth. WalMarts have it too, along with the Mobil 1 High Miles line, where all of the grades, 5w-30, 10w-30 and 10w-40 are ideally formulated for VAG engines, turbos in particular...$23/5q. I'd recommend the 5w-30 HM going into winter, 10w-30 HM if you are going to change it again before then. If you make mostly short trips under 10mi, use the thinner oils.

PepBoys carries German Syntec and a few Mobil 1 products, inc the 0w-40 and 5w-40 ESP, which is on special for $29/5q with a filter. Their Proline filter is actually a large Purolator. BOSCH makes some too.

So, no, I don't think you have to mail-order oils or filters.


btw- that all being said, 1.8t runs fine on thin jug 5w-30 synth. I was just trying to cater to your interest in 5w-40 or direct substitutes. 5w-30 works great and is actually much better in the cold.
Grab some Edge, Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra or SynPower and a cheap filter you'll be fine.


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## shdwmkiv (Mar 11, 2010)

i do drive on the gsp 80 miles daily for work, but not at 130mph.

my book doesnt say i can use 0w-40, only 5w-40 and 5w-30.

i got a bosch filter now but i was thinking of trying the k&n. any recommendations?

thanks for all the info :thumbup:


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

There's a lot of overlap between grades of oil and their visc when heated/cooled. 

This is a Porsche diagram, like was in most owner's manuals before C.A.F.E. stipulated the oil used in their mpg tests needed to be specified in the manual.










also...










http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html

For brisk driving with moderate mods, the Mobil 1 High-Miles line is great. Like I said, the 10w-30 far exceeds the main spec for VW 502 (A3), the HT/HS >3.5cP. Your manual probably mentions ACEA A3, the generic Euro spec for heavy synth oil that VW 502 is based on. 

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENPVLMOMobil_1_High_Mileage_Oil.asp

http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/RelativePerformanceToolIntro.html

This Audi 1.8t manual mentions A3 and that 0w-30 (Syntec) was factory-fill.










You can run 5w-40 and kill mpg, cold flow and power and get the same or higher wear as a heavy or even a light 30. 5w-40 is for running flat out all day in summer.

So, German Syntec 0w-30, Mobil 1 0w-40 or M1 5w-30 High Miles for more extreme cold, or the M1 10w-30 HiMi for more moderate temps, like fall and summer, say...above 0f.

I'm saying, buy a jug oil and use the saved money for a lab UOA to see how wear is. Then, you'll know how thin a visc is good for your set-up by how the wear rates are. 

This 1.8t (with a smaller sump) did great on thin Edge 5w-30...










I'm using Edge 5w-30 this winter myself and am pushing 300ft-lbs 2.0 TSI.

So, if you want more specifics, let me know what you're thinking. You are not at all limited to a few viscs or products from the manual.

btw- filters do not interest me at all. Use the cheapest one, they all do exactly the same thing. You could have NASA engineer you a titanium billet filter with aerospace grade silicone seals and stainless steel mesh media and it would not make one bit of difference.

STP S3569 or PepBoys Proline are good large filers. Don't get too attached to a fancy filter, they are disposable after all.


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## TechMeister (Jan 7, 2008)

It would be wise to use the oils that VW has tested and approved for your VW engine. In fact for vehicles under warranty it's a requirement. Second guessing the VW engineers who actually test and approve oils that meet the engine's lubrications requirements is foolhardy.

ECS Tuning and others sell VW approved oils. Any VW oil of the correct viscosity and approval for the application will serve you well as VW has actually tested these oils to be sure. OE filter suppliers like Mahle, Mann, etc. can provide the proper quality filter as can any VW dealer parts dept., usually at a resonably competitive price when you consider shipping costs. 

Some people who have used cheap oil filters have had engine failures when the filter leaked or collapsed so I'd stick with the OE filter suppliers to VW, Porsche, Audi, etc. Cheap filters can also allow much larger particulate to pass thru the filter which increases bearing wear. You won't end up saving any money if your engine fails from using improper oil or filters. There's good reason why VW test oils and mandates that you use one that provides the proper lubrication for your engine.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

Guess what, they don't have the same oils in Europe as we get in USA. It also costs $500k to gain a certification for 3 years.


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## gehr (Jan 28, 2004)

AudiSportA4 said:


> Guess what dummy, they don't have the same oils in Europe as we get in USA. It also costs $500k to gain a certification for 3 years.


Why are you such a douche?


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

I guess it comes from hearing the same mindless arguments from idiots who don't take a split second to pay attention to facts. Make up some stupid theory and stick with it in spite of a world of info to the contrary. What's your excuse?

When I say something incorrect, feel free to criticize me, otherwise stfu.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

TechMeister said:


> It would be wise to use the oils that VW has tested and approved for your VW engine. In fact for vehicles under warranty it's a requirement. Second guessing the VW engineers who actually test and approve oils that meet the engine's lubrications requirements is foolhardy.


This is because you don't understand the tests or requirements of VW specs nor the properties of the oils available on the US market.



TechMeister said:


> Some people who have used cheap oil filters have had engine failures when the filter leaked or collapsed so I'd stick with the OE filter suppliers to VW, Porsche, Audi, etc. Cheap filters can also allow much larger particulate to pass thru the filter which increases bearing wear. You won't end up saving any money if your engine fails from using improper oil or filters. There's good reason why VW test oils and mandates that you use one that provides the proper lubrication for your engine.


Got a link? Where are these "filter mandates"? lol. I have NEVER seen a filter damage an engine. Got an example of cheap filters producing bearing wear? I can show you a 100 lab results with WalMart Supertech filters (Champion Labs) or other brands with perfect results. Plain old Purolator is as good as any filter on the market, but you have no idea how to even to begin to compare them. 

Again, like every post of yours, it's just regurgitated fear mongering posing as useful info, without a shred of factual data to back it up.

Let's take the meager example of our Astra. In Europe, it specs 5w-40 synth. What do you think is speced for the USA, with the same engine? 5w-30 dino. Whoops. 

Normal members can look over Castrol.co.uk, their oil selector routinely calls for thicker oils then we use in the USA, for the same engines.

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/iframe.do?categoryId=9024084&contentId=7044829

In some parts of the world, you can't even find thinner than a 25w-70, simply because that's a popular visc with the public. In USA CAFE drives oil selections, sometimes for the better. If this was a Honda or Ford forum, the same guys who argue for oem 5w-40 in VWs would be trying to tell everyone their engines will explode if they used anything OTHER than 5w-20...even though noplace else in the world uses it. Yawn, otoh, you have the guys claiming 5w-20 produces excess wear and kills engines, again despite the facts to the contrary. I've seen it all.


It's been explained over and over by multiple members, VW 502 oils are simply oils that were submitted for and passed the test, it doesn't mean other oils won't either pass the test or work well on their own. Techmeister just has no clue and resorts to the default position that ONLY VW oils can do the job. Be it the cam followers, 10k ocis, USA grade fuels and VW 504 oils or oils on the US market that simply are not tested as part of their marketing or physical properties, VW "engineers" are simply not concerned with them, other than to produce a list of oils that are adequate for reference. If you know the basic parameters of the test, and then re-test on your own to confirm your selected oil, there is plenty of room for improvement. 

What happens with "spec" oils is that they get locked into a formula after the test, while lube tech is rapidly improving. Liquid titanium, borate esters, antimony and overbase calcium are the newer alternatives to high old high magnesium and zink formulas, like Syntec 5w-40 that was formulated in Belgium over 10 years ago in 1998 for VW 502. 










So, the rest of us will enjoy better mpg and power, better pricing, selection and availability, better cold starting as well as better wear and compatibilty with our fuels, and other guys will cry the cry of ignorance and pay a premium for excessively thick oils to carry a spec on their label, bog their engines down, run them twice as long, comically claiming they know best when in fact it's not so funny for people who are unfortunate to share in their delusion.


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## shdwmkiv (Mar 11, 2010)

so i'll be perfectly fine with 5w-30 all year round?


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## skier45 (Jul 27, 2009)

you make it way to complicated.

many of the oils you mention may not be vw 502/505 but they are ACEA A3/B4 and they also are vw approved via the Acea accreditation. as for oil suppliers claim, figures don't lie but liers can figure. They all can find a set of criteria that shows thier product supperior. just try and find an oil analisis site that is'nt promoted by amsoil.

much of the info in oil analisis only shows that the detergent is working, ie keeping the contaminant suspended.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

...and that wear is low, which pretty much sums up the job of a lube product. ACEA A5 is the same performance criteria as A3, just in a thinner version. Edge Pennzoil Ultra and Platinum and SynPower 30 weights are A5, making them totally suitable.

http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/RelativePerformanceToolIntro.html

Mobil 1 5w-30 HiMi is A5 (but within .1cP of A3) 10w-30 HM and 10w-40 HM are A3.

As for 5w-30 all year, yes. I'd do a UOA from winter and if it looks good, no problem. The Pennzoil Platinum and Edge 5w-30 UOAs I posted are both from summer. Even w/o a UOA, you are hardly into uncharted territory. 

I have my 5q of Edge 5w-30 right here, waiting to go in for winter.

As much as I like the Edge and Ultra, Mobil 1 HM line is the best bet because they are all thicker and have the added esters for seal conditioning. Use the 5w-30 HM for winter and the 10w-30 HM for summer.

btw- in most cases a 5w-30 and a 10w-30 are almost identical, being the exact same visc when hot. In the case of M1 HM, the 10w-30 is thicker than the 5w-30...pretty ideal, imo.


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## shdwmkiv (Mar 11, 2010)

thanks!

where can i go for a uoa or do i have to do it myself?


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

Hey, Blackstone will send you a kit for free, just request one. iirc it's $25 when you send your sample back in. Let me know if you need any more specific info. 

btw- I guess you need to drive the car a bit to clear the oil up and sample in the middle of the drain. nbd.


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## shdwmkiv (Mar 11, 2010)

alright, thanks



AudiSportA4 said:


> btw- I guess you need to drive the car a bit to clear the oil up and sample in the middle of the drain. nbd.


what do you mean


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

To get the most "accurate" tests, it's best to first drive a bit to burn off some excess fuel and water from the oil.

When getting a sample, make it not the first oil draining from the pan and not the last either.


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## shdwmkiv (Mar 11, 2010)

so this would be done during an oil change then?


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

Generally, but the extended oil change sickos sometimes take a small sample during the middle of their run to see how much farther they can go. I'm talking about 15k+ intervals.


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## shdwmkiv (Mar 11, 2010)

ah, alright. thanks a bunch :thumbup:


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## cryption (Mar 28, 2006)

I buy from DBC performance. Free shipping and good selection (at least on the oil I want)


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## TechMeister (Jan 7, 2008)

Use of VW approved oils and OEM quality filters will provide excellent protection for your VW engine. This is assured because VW actually tests the oils and provides a long list of approved oils available in the U.S. and worldwide. The current list is available at any VW dealer or from VWoA.

As long as you are using VW approved oils of the proper spec/viscosity for the application with a genuine VW or OEM supplier filter, you will be properly protecting your engine. It does not matter if you buy the oil and filter locally or online as long as you use VW approved oils to protect your engine and new vehicle warranty.

Don't be duped by the ad hype and fanboism for the booty oils. They have no VW approval.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

Unfortunately, not, and not to the exclusion of unapproved oils. Once you learn and know the VW test parameters, and the products that are approved, you can apply that info to compare other products in terms of visc, TBN, additive levels and types and wear rates. UNapproved oils routinely exceed these parameters, weather Techmister understands it or not.


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## skier45 (Jul 27, 2009)

*the rest of us are idiots?*

Are you the last word in oil? Maybe some of the oils that aren't certified weren't presented because the manufacturer new the criteria and they wouldn't have passed.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

Sure, VW spec add items like cold-cranking and MPG stipulations to the generic A3 spec. DO I care if Mobil 1 10w-40 HM meets this in the middle of summer in my modded car? No, I care if it protects the engine better. Like I said, A3 is a common spec, if you look for it you cover most parameters of VW 502.

Then you look at the issue in terms of your own application and what you want to tweek. My mom takes mega-short trips in her Passat 2.0. DO you really think she heats the oil into the red zone? No, it rarely makes operating temp, keeping the visc down too. VW 502 (A3) at >3.5cp builds in a far excess at +150c. It's running 5w-20 over winter with a shot of thickener (Maxlife Engine Protector) come spring. Plenty of fine results on all types of thinner oil, like I posted UOAs of many times over. I think people are suffering a mental disconnect comprehending the relationship between operating visc and operating temp. I said too, 502 spec oils are locked into a formulation after being tested. Newer otc generic store oils change formulas as the tech improves (which I explained details of already). 

Ironically, the opposite of what is alleged about "marketing" of smaller brands of oils like RLI or Redline is true: VW spec approval is the ultimate marketing study for oil companies. The one and only issue is can their distribution network sell enough speced product to make the costs of certification worthwhile. Pretty simple. If they want to sell a VW 502 oil, they order the 502 additive package from Lubrizol, Infineon, Ethyl, Afton or Ornite and the SPECIFIED base oils from Mobil, Conoco or often Korean companies, bottle it just like soda pop, then ship it out retailers and to whoever will buy their product. Bear in mind who their competition is.

I posted a lot of of simple common sense explanations with examples on a lot of subjects, and everyone except a few people seem able to grasp it. It's not my job to make sure the slower students pass every subject and make it to the next grade. For all I care, you kids can ride the tiny bus.


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