# Trying something a lil' different



## noise00 (Mar 21, 2009)

I had no idea that there was a CIS forum. I posted this stuff up in the A2 forums but i figure it'll prolly get more hits here and it'll probably just get deleted there for some wrong forum bs. So anyway check it out. 

On the 10v Audi UrQuattro rally car was made by Pierburg. The most notable thing about it is that it used a cable from the throttle to operate the control plunger. The cable turned a cam that would move the plunger. I'm making something like this. I haven't decided exactly how to go about it yet. I like the idea of fabbing up a little cam lobe, however as my dad pointed out if i somehow modify the metering head it allows me to keep the idle adjustment and air meter potentiometer. If I go with the cam, I'll be using a TPS instead of the pot. I figured I'd see if anyone had any input on this idea. Now, when I say input, I mean constructive intelligent discourse. My goal is to run CIS without an air meter. I do not want to run standalone. I do not want to run Digifant. I want to run CIS. So, with that in mind I invite you to join me in this project.
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I've got something going on. The only stock part retained is the distributor itself. I'm custom fabricating the meter lever out of aluminum. There's no cam but there's a lever that will have a roller like in the stock one. At the end of this lever there is going to be a point for the cable to connect that will be adjustable to control travel of the cable. It's going to have an idle adjustment screw and everything. I think I'm going to end up using a TPS, however I think there's a chance that I could replace the metering pot with a MAP sensor.

On a side note, This project started because I have to rewire the car as a result of a fire and poor wiring jobs by PO's. Since I don't want to just replace half the harness under the hood only to stay on CIS-E I figured I'd put in a Motronic ECU and Harness I have. I don't know specifically what car the ECU is from... I don't know much specifically about this car. I bought it as a "stock 1.8L 16v to discover a big 'ol set of Audi rings and "2.0," a BBM solid motor mount (score), and it behaves as it has some sort of limited slip in it (bigger score) I'm required to get this car running withing 2 weeks. It's gonna be a hell of a project, but, a fun one nonetheless. 
-Andy


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## noise00 (Mar 21, 2009)

I'm going to try and run a CIS-E fuel dizzy with an adjustable volatage regulator built to control the mixture by adjust the voltage to the differential pressure regulator. Dashboard tuning capabilities? I think so. My "uncle" who has been a VW mechanic for 35 years thinks it'll work in theory. BTW I'm completely aware that it's gonna hate POT and work best at WOT. The Audi was the same. I'm okay with that.


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## noise00 (Mar 21, 2009)

I wonder if anyone's been reading this. HaHa.
Anyway, the meter arm has been made, as well as the roller which sits inside the arm as to not cause any friction when it pushes against the plunger. 
Tomorow I'm gonna do some more work on it. I'll try and get some pictures up to prove that this exists... It seems to never have been done since the Pierburg dizzy on the Audi. Go figure.


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## noise00 (Mar 21, 2009)

SO this project is on hold.  i need to get the car running though. Then I can try and make this thing work, but i think i first should just make it start.


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## GTIspirit (Dec 13, 2002)

Hmmm, so basically you're trying to convert CIS-E from MAF to an Alpha-N system? Just keep in mind that the DPR current is really only for fine tuning the mixture control, i.e. closed loop operation which is of no concern to you. So you're trying to rig some kind of linkage so the throttle cable/linkage will directly actuate the control plunger? Interesting idea, I'll stay tuned for your further updates, including pics.

BTW, your title is a bit misleading, I almost didn't bother to check out the thread.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

noise00 said:


> I wonder if anyone's been reading this. HaHa.
> Anyway, the meter arm has been made, as well as the roller which sits inside the arm as to not cause any friction when it pushes against the plunger.
> Tomorow I'm gonna do some more work on it. I'll try and get some pictures up to prove that this exists... It seems to never have been done since the Pierburg dizzy on the Audi. Go figure.


Read it and watching/waiting for pictures and results :beer::beer:opcorn::beer::beer::beer:


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

noise00 said:


> I wonder if anyone's been reading this. HaHa. . . . It seems to never have been done since the Pierburg dizzy on the Audi. Go figure.


Reading it, yeah I'm reading it for a few reasons. One was because it gave me a good laugh when I first read the original post. Second because I always find it interesting when someone tries to reinvent the wheel, not so much that it has been done, but to see if they a)can and b) how they go about doing it. And last to to maybe learn along the why just why they deemed it necessary to even do it to begin with.

Did you ever sit down and ask yourself just 'why" nobody has used that system since those days? Just curious as it was only used for about a year or so and dropped for a better system. Those cars had no idle to speak of and for a Rallye car that was OK, but for a street driven car, well . . . Just being able to regulate the fuel in a crude manner is childs play really, what was your plan for doing the same with the air so the mixture was good throughout the RPM range? Or were you just going to start it with a serious high idle and then run more or less flat out like they did with the Rallye cars?

Sorry to hear you halted the project as I was waiting to see the rest of the plans as they unfolded. But you can always lay them out here as if you were still doing it, I'll keep reading it.


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## noise00 (Mar 21, 2009)

Well it's been a while since I've broached this topic. 
Why has no one used them? Because they're inefficient and sometimes problematic. SOMETIMES. The only problem I've ever had was a refusal to idle when really cold. 
I love CIS it's an elegant system and if tuned properly can support a lot of power. Keep in mind there's all sorts of Bosch fuel dizzys from all different cars with various displacements out there. At any rate, FI isn't in this month's budget lol. Even if it was, My 80 wouldn't need to end up with more than 200bhp to keep me giggling. Of course, it could have a sweet boost knob in the dashboard. But CIS can provide plenty of fuel for a 2.3l NA setup. 10v ITB sans airmeter hmmm? Think the Oettinger 16v rediculousness only CIS oriented instead of a mechanical injection pump. I'd love one of those but i dont know if it's possible to say time a 6 cylender one to fire a 5. 

But anyway, 
If I wanted efficiency I'd buy a Prius. 
Coincidentally I didn't. 
However, I did trade my GTI for an '89 Audi 80 Quattro.
It has the stock 2.3 10v in it. SOHC Love =] 
Anyway, i have new interest in this. I've learned a little bit more about all of it. I'm gonna post the images I have of my bit and also what I've found on the Pierburg system tomorrow including a Bently-esque schematic aber es ist auf Deutsch. Maybe you all could help shed some light on the system though. There seems to be some sort of little motor involved with the dizzy almost like the semi-drive by wire throttles of OBDII ABA's and VR's.

Hmm. 
Glad you guys enjoy. Cheers!


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## noise00 (Mar 21, 2009)

For the record, this are just musings. I'm not dead set on this, nor is it gonna make or break me. I'm just musing with an idea.


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## noise00 (Mar 21, 2009)

WaterWheels said:


> Just being able to regulate the fuel in a crude manner is childs play really, what was your plan for doing the same with the air so the mixture was good throughout the RPM range? Or were you just going to start it with a serious high idle and then run more or less flat out like they did with the Rallye cars?


The motor I mentioned is linked through some circuit or another to the distributor. 

Theoretically also, a DPR could be controlled by a TPS.


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