# Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days?



## riccone (Nov 11, 2004)

*Leaving car unlocked and battery*

It was stated earlier in the forum that leaving the car unlocked for 2 to 3 days would drain the battery to the point where the car would not start. Ran this buy my dealer's "Phaeton Tech." Answer; it will not.
I have left my car unlocked in the garage for 2 days at a time and have not noted any reduction in "cranking power."


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (riccone)*

I've got a feeling that is an 'urban legend' that came about because whenever Phaetons were left in the showrooms with the doors unlocked, the battery went dead after a few days.
It went dead because everyone and their brother was getting into the car and playing with all the gizmos.
Once the salesmen started locking the doors - preventing people from getting in and fooling around with the car - the battery stopped going dead.
I don't think there is a causal relationship between leaving the doors unlocked and draining the battery - if the car is in your own personal garage, that is.








Michael


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## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I've got a feeling that is an 'urban legend' that came about because whenever Phaetons were left in the showrooms with the doors unlocked, the battery went dead after a few days.
It went dead because everyone and their brother was getting into the car and playing with all the gizmos.
Once the salesmen started locking the doors - preventing people from getting in and fooling around with the car - the battery stopped going dead.
I don't think there is a causal relationship between leaving the doors unlocked and draining the battery - if the car is in your own personal garage, that is.








Michael

as long as the key is not within 20 feet (with kessy) you won't drain the battery if you leave the car unlocked.
If the kessy is transmitting to the key all of the time, it will kill the battery.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (Corradodrvrfnd)*

This is interesting. I wonder how that works when you have a conventional, wood frame home, and the car is kept in an attached garage. Would two layers of drywall be sufficient to block the transmission of signals from the access / start control module (the Kessy module) to the key, which is hanging in the kitchen about 10 feet away?
The owner's manual states that if the car is locked and it is not used for more than a few days, the Kessy shuts down and stops looking for the key. You then need to gently pull on the door handle to wake the car up. I wonder if this is part of the origin (or mythology, as the case may be) of the "dead battery' story?
Further - it seems to me that if the car was left unlocked, there would be no point to the Kessy looking for the key - I mean, why should it, the car is already unlocked? It's like Alice in Wonderland - it gets curiouser and curiouser!
Michael


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## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (PanEuropean)*

The Kessy isn't supposed to allow you to lock the car if the key is inside the vehicle, so even if the car is left unlocked, it will still continue to look for the key.


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## docroger1 (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (Corradodrvrfnd)*

I keep my key in the Phaeton (sitting in the cupholder) and the car unlocked, for days (max, 10 days) at a time. Never had an issue with the battery.


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (riccone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *riccone* »_It was stated earlier in the forum that leaving the car unlocked for 2 to 3 days would drain the battery to the point where the car would not start. Ran this buy my dealer's "Phaeton Tech." Answer; it will not.
I have left my car unlocked in the garage for 2 days at a time and have not noted any reduction in "cranking power." 

With all due respect to everyones input, I can from experience say that it is not an urban legend since it happened to me.
VW was very specific about locking the car as it put it into sleep mode similar to a computer. This helps shut down the drain on the battery. 
Obviously VW felt there was potential for a problem or else why the back up battery system.
By turning the key to the left twice and then to the right you can override the the first battery and the back up battery will kick in.
Maybe my personal battery was low and then when I let it sit for 2 days it went out.
Regarding leaving the key in the car while in the garage for up to 10 days I can not address.
When I worked for BMW in the late 80's when the new 7 series came out it had a similar requirement.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (Corradodrvrfnd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Corradodrvrfnd* »_The Kessy isn't supposed to allow you to lock the car if the key is inside the vehicle, so even if the car is left unlocked, it will still continue to look for the key.

Hmmm... that doesn't seem to make sense. I know the car will not allow you to lock it if there is a key inside, but wouldn't it just have a look around for a key once you pressed the 'lock' button (either on a second remote, or on the door handle), rather than continually looking for a key? I mean, why should it go to all the trouble of constantly looking for a key inside the cabin?
I just put the keyless start button in my car. If I open the door of the car (whether the car is locked or unlocked, it does not matter), the red light ring around the start button will illuminate *if* I have a key in my pocket. If I don't have a key in my pocket and I open the (previously unlocked) door, the red ring will not illuminate. Further, if I do have the key in my pocket, and I open the door and sit in the car but I don't touch anything, the red light ring will extinguish after about 5 minutes, which suggests to me that the car has given up on me and has stopped polling for the presence of a key in the cabin. If I then press the start button, the car starts instantly, which suggests that it can do the required polling for the presence of a key pretty quickly if it needs to.
Michael


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## subsaharantribesman (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (PanEuropean)*

This is not an unfounded legend. There has been an on-going issue with dead batteries in Touaregs with keyless entry. Dealers have been telling us that the Tregs should not sit unlocked, particularly if the key is in range. 
Having had the battery problem, I began locking my doors even when the car is garaged.
Cheers,


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (subsaharantribesman)*

I've never locked my Touareg doors (either Touareg) and never had a dead battery. This is a coverup or band-aid excuse.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (spockcat)*

Well, let's keep an open mind about it. Obviously, I have my own opinion - I don't think there is a direct correlation between locking doors and eliminating battery drain - but it does seem that there is a battery drain issue somewhere. Hopefully we can get some participation from VW staff, either in Germany or America, or perhaps some comments from Phaeton service technicians who have encountered this problem, and that will give us the answer.
I think all of us, as owners, are just speculating right now - and I include myself in that group.
Michael


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (PanEuropean)*

The point I was trying to make is that there are some Touaregs (and maybe Phaetons) that do have battery drains and locking them may prevent the drain. But in my opinion that means the car has an ongoing problem that the dealer or VW cannot solve and their solution is to tell the owner to lock the car. This is not the solution or the problem, just a coverup or band-aid. 
No other cars in the world that I know of require you to lock them or their batteries go dead overnight. 
We still have ongoing battery issues on the Touareg forum with relatively new Touaregs.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_...their solution is to tell the owner to lock the car. This is not the solution or the problem, just a coverup or band-aid. 
 
I'm not even sure it is a cover-up or a band-aid. My guess is that it is a shot in the dark by folks who don't know what the cause of the battery drain problem is. In other words, I'm not yet convinced that the battery drain problem that some folks have reported has anything at all to do with the keyless access system.

_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_...No other cars in the world that I know of require you to lock them or their batteries go dead overnight.

Again, it's 1) an isolated problem that does not affect all vehicles, and 2) No-one has yet positively identified a correlation between locking the car and stopping a battery drain problem that is caused by a design error or faulty component. It is possible, for example (I'm just saying this for sake of illustration, not because I believe it to be so) that if the owner leaves the dome light on unawares, the battery drains overnight. But, if the vehicle is locked - thus arming the alarm system - the power management system shuts off the (manually switched on) dome light after a period of inactivity in the cabin (as determined by the motion sensor).
Let's not jump to conclusions.
Michael


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## trekguy (Aug 16, 2004)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (PanEuropean)*

Does this battery-drain/car locking thread pertain ONLY to cars with keyless entry?
My base model sat almost 1 week, doors unlocked, and it started up just fine.


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

My Touareg (with keyless entry) has suffered from the dead battery problem as well. But the theory of the key being located too close to the vehicle in an attached garage is interesting. My first dead battery happened with the vehicle stored in the garage unlocked for 2 weeks while we were on vacation. I didn't take my key with me, but left it hidden in a closet located near the garage. The key might have been stored too close to the kessy module for too long a time, causing the battery to drain.
Hmmmm........
- Dave


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

Dave:
Well understood, but again, why would the car bother to poll the key for its presence if the vehicle is already unlocked? That is the part that doesn't make sense to me. 
All I can think of that might explain it is that the 'keyless start' function might still be active in the North American vehicles, even though they don't have the start button installed. In other words, if the vehicle is unlocked, then the Kessy is looking for the key all the time, in order to be able to authorize a start command that is executed through the start button. I noticed that when I installed the start button on my Phaeton, I didn't have to change any coding - it was just a matter of plugging into the 5 unused terminals, and voila, it worked.
However - having said that, I note that if the car is unlocked and the key is within range (in the cabin), the red ring around the start button only stays illuminated for about 5 minutes. If you don't start the car within 5 minutes, the red light goes out. Now, the question we need the answer to is this: Does the access / start control module (the Kessy) continue to poll for the presence of a key in the cabin after 5 minutes has elapsed, or, does it just give up, stop polling, and wait until the (often non-existent) start button is pressed before it polls again for the presence of a key?
Michael


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## dt1963 (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I have also had an issue w/ a dead battery after two or three days of non-use. I'll be away for the next few days and plan to leave my fab Phaeton in the garage locked. We'll see!
BTW - Although I have been driving my '04 V8 since summer, this is my first post to the forum (just joined today!). I can't tell you how much I've learned so far - truly a wonderful forum!
I enjoy the car more and more every day! Traded away my '01 M-B S600 and have no regrets.
Thanks,
Dan


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: (dt1963)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dt1963* »_I have also had an issue w/ a dead battery after two or three days of non-use. I'll be away for the next few days and plan to leave my fab Phaeton in the garage locked. We'll see!
BTW - Although I have been driving my '04 V8 since summer, this is my first post to the forum (just joined today!). I can't tell you how much I've learned so far - truly a wonderful forum!
I enjoy the car more and more every day! Traded away my '01 M-B S600 and have no regrets.
Thanks,
Dan

Glad to have you on the forum.
My wifes brother and his wife live in Tallahassee


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## dt1963 (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: (rmg2)*

Thanks. I'm happy to be part of the group.
As you probably know, Tallahassee is not a terribly large town. I have yet to see another Phaeton on the road.
Dan


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dt1963)*

Hi Dan:
Welcome to the forum, we all look forward to hearing more from you in the future.
Michael


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## dt1963 (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks.
I left my Phaeton in the garage with its doors locked Wednesday through Sunday and again the battery was dead - I had hoped locking it would solve my battery issue. Will have to take it to my local service dept, which I dread (the only other time I had the car in for service, due to a navigation system problem, they told me, and I am not making this up, to return the car to the selling dealership so they could activate the route guidance system -







- I calmly explained to them how utterly absurd I thought that suggestion to be and they eventually fixed the problem).
Saw a black Phaeton on the road while driving through Jacksonville, FL Wednesday. Around here that's cause for excitement - there simply aren't many around. Alas, I was in the party bus (Navigator) and not my own Phaeton.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (query)*

A few months ago, there was some discussion here in the forum about the issue of the vehicle power supply battery (the battery on the left hand side of the trunk) slowly discharging if the owner did not use the Phaeton for a number of days. Various theories were put forth, the most popular one being that it had something to do with whether or not you locked the car before you stored it, and the possibility that the access and start control module (the Kessy module) in Phaetons equipped with keyless access was continually drawing power when the car was parked.
When I started my current 2 month tour of duty in East Africa at the beginning of the month, I invited my wife to fly over to Nairobi for a 1 week safari holiday before I reported to work. As a result of this, our Phaeton (a 2004 W12 Premier Edition, with keyless access) was left in our garage, parked and locked, for 9 days.
Before my wife left, I asked her to stash the three car keys in the furthest corner of the house, so they would be out of radio range of the car. When she returned, she told me that the car started normally, the only unusual observations being 1) She had to give the driver door handle a little tug to wake the car up, it didn't respond to the very first touch (without handle movement) as it normally does, and 2) the car displayed the message "Please Start Engine" in the display between the speedometer and tachometer after she turned the ignition on. Other than that, it was a completly normal startup cycle.
Concerning point 1), the door handle requiring a slight tug (physical movement), I think that is normal and by design - I seem to recall the owner manual saying something about needing to gently pull the handle to wake up the car if it has not been used for several days.
Concerning point 2) the "Please Start Engine" message, that is the polite way that the Phaeton informs the owner that the vehicle power supply battery is below its normal voltage level, and for that reason, it would be a good idea to start the car and allow the car to recharge the vehicle power supply battery. So, it is safe to conclude from that message that there must have been a little bit of power draw taking place for at least part of the 9 days that our Phaeton was parked.
My question is directed to those of you who have owned a Phaeton for more than one month: Disregarding the first month of ownership (the time period when we are all trying to figure out how the car works, and thus likely screwing a few things up unintentionally), have you ever had the vehicle power supply battery run down when you have not used your Phaeton for several days or more?
Let us know your experience.
Michael
*PS to newbies:* _All Phaetons sold in North America are equipped with two batteries. The battery on the left hand side of the vehicle - the larger of the two - is called the vehicle power supply battery, and it supplies all the vehicle systems except the starter motor. The battery on the right hand side of the vehicle is reserved for starting the car only. This design ensures that if the vehicle power supply battery ever gets depleted, the car can still be started._


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## mr.vw (Oct 9, 2003)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (PanEuropean)*

your car is working as designed....when the car is indeed "asleep" you will need to tug the door handle twice(to "wake" it up)...Touareg's work the same way...based upon my experience, the effective range of "kessy" is 25-30 feet..


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## dt1963 (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (PanEuropean)*

I've had my V8 since June and have come up with this: lock the car and put keys as far away as possible. The battery had been dying at 2-3 days if the ignition key was in close proximity, regardless of whether the car is locked (I tested both locked and unlocked scenarios). These are *my* facts and I draw no conclusions.








Best,
Dan


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (dt1963)*

I have never had this problem, and given that all of these cars sit on a ship
for 3.5 weeks crossing the Atlantic for San Diego with keys in the ignition and books and extra keys on the front seat or in the trunk, I find it hard to figure out this gremlin...


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## dtwphaeton (Sep 7, 2004)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (PanEuropean)*

I have left mine a number of times, for periods of five days, both locked at the airport, and unlocked in the garage (key not in range), with no unusual incidents or apparent battery drainage.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (vwguild)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwguild* »_...given that all of these cars sit on a ship for 3.5 weeks crossing the Atlantic for San Diego with keys in the ignition and books and extra keys on the front seat or in the trunk, I find it hard to figure out this gremlin...









Let me help you figure it out: Open the cover to the compartment on the left hand side of the trunk, and look towards the back, where the tail-light is. You will see a two-pin electrical connector, covered with foam wrap, that has nothing plugged into it.
When the car was put on the ship in Europe, this connector had something plugged into it - it was a small component that disabled the electrical system of the car for long transport distances. When the car arrives at the port in the country of destination, the first thing the port workers do (while the car is still in the ship) is to remove this component. Now, the car electrical system is enabled, and the car works normally.
I can't blame you for not knowing this, unless you work at the port, or ask the engineering staff at the factory in Dresden what that connector is while you are having lunch with them, you won't know. But - now you know.
Personally - my guess is that leaving the keys within radio range of the Kessy module has something to do with the discharge, but that is strictly an unsubstantiated guess. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I stored all 3 sets of keys in the farthest corner of the house when my wife and I went away for over a week, and the car worked just fine when we came home. I have a W12 Premiere Edition with many options on it - we still don't know if there is one option that is the 'common denominator' to this discharge problem.
We still need to collect more factual information.
Michael


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

I was just gone for a week. The W12 in the garage was 'locked'. Keys in the house. Started up on the first turn.
Jack Orr


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Jack Orr)*

Thanks for adding your experience, Jack. Worth noting that you and I have the same car with the same options on it - and we had the same experience... no problems after a week, with a locked car (with keyless access) and the keys stored in the house.
Michael


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (PanEuropean)*

Just had a car delivered to Westchester County, NY. This PHAETON was my demo and transport schedule went totally sideways...Bottom line...Keys stored in Center Console for three weeks...No problems at all


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## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (vwguild)*

I have had my cars since May and I have had no problems at all, both my Touareg and my Phaeton have been left locked and unlocked for often for up to thee weeks. If I am way from base I either have one car or the other. Thus far no indication of any problems , yet!


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## MattyM (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (riccone)*

Browsing your page and saw this post. Technician at my dealership warned me when I got my W8 Passat to make sure that I kept it locked if I were going away for a few days or it would drain the battery. This was gratuitous information so I assumed it was correct. I leave mine locked in my garage at night with the windows down and the keys on the dash. Don't lose the keys that way.







MM


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (pilgrim7777)*

Hello all:
Good news. I have finally received a detailed answer about this question from a very reliable source, who wishes to remain discreetly in the background, but who is quite supportive of our group. Information in blue type can be considered authoritative.
Here is how the Phaeton electrical system is designed to operate:
*1)* If you close the doors and lock the car, the comfort bus (electrical system) goes to sleep after 90 seconds. This supports earlier observations by Phaeton owners that if you want to 're-cycle' the car, you have to wait 90 seconds after locking it up.
*2)*For Phaetons with keyless entry: If you close the car doors without locking the car - even if you leave the key inside the car - the comfort bus will go to sleep in 2 minutes. This shoots down all of our theories that leaving the key in proximity to the car - locked or unlocked - has anything to do with battery discharge.
*3)* If you close the doors, lock the vehicle, and anytime subsequent to that, open the driver door (the infotainment screen will illuminate), then close the driver door without locking it, the infotainment module (J523) will remain powered for 55 minutes, and the comfort bus will remain powered for 1 hour. This is a courtesy to the driver, for example, the driver may be listening to the radio, or watching the TV (in Europe), or, perhaps, even doing something more interesting in the back seat of a LWB Phaeton. It would be a nuisance if the infotainment system and/or comfort bus powered down quickly under these circumstances.
So - what all this means is: Anyone who has encountered recurring problems with the vehicle power supply battery (the left hand battery) discharging when the vehicle is left alone for several days should first have the battery checked for battery idle voltage and for battery capacity (internal resistance). This is a fairly straightforward test that can be performed by the Phaeton technician at the VW dealership. What the technician is trying to determine is 1) Is the battery well connected to the vehicle electrical system, and is it receiving a charge from the car when the car is running, and; 2) Is there anything wrong with the battery itself?
Worth noting, from my own personal experience, that the Phaeton technician at my dealership installed a new vehicle power supply battery in my Phaeton as part of the PDI process. This was because my car had been in the showroom for 6 months, with lots of people inside it all the time, the battery frequently discharging, etc., and the technician was a bit concerned that the battery might not be in the best of health. As I noted earlier in this discussion, I have never encountered any problems with the battery discharging in my Phaeton, even if it has been left unused for 10 days or more.
If the above tests indicate that there are no problems with the battery or with the connection and supply of electricity to the battery, and you are STILL having problems with the vehicle power supply battery discharging when the vehicle is left unused for several days, then please let us know about it here in the forum.
Thanks,
Michael


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## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Thanks for the great post... I would think that alot of the issues people have had are due to the fact that Phaetons were not fast movers at VW dealerships.... They were showpieces that countless customers admired... 
I am certain that many of our Phaetons had the batteries run-down in the showroom a number of times due to customers "checking them out" over many months. Some of these batteries may no longer be in the best condition and may not want to hold a charge well... This certainly may be the source of the problems experienced by some Phaeton owners.
Douglas


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (copernicus0001)*

Douglas:
I agree with you totally. In fact, my dealer was so concerned about exactly what you concluded that he pro-actively put a new vehicle power supply battery (left battery) in my Phaeton as part of the PDI process. And guess what - I have never had a problem with the battery in my W12 going flat, even if it has not used for over a week.
I'm not suggesting that purchasers should expect this to be done as 'SOP' (standard operating procedure) - my car was on display in the showroom for 6 solid months before I bought it - but certainly, if someone encounters battery discharge problems, and follows the troubleshooting procedures outlined above, and the problem persists - the logical next step is to put a new vehicle power supply battery in the car.
Michael


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
*3) If you close the doors, lock the vehicle, and anytime subsequent to that, open the driver door (the infotainment screen will illuminate), then close the driver door without locking it, the infotainment module (J523) will remain powered for 55 minutes, and the comfort bus will remain powered for 1 hour. This is a courtesy to the driver, for example, the driver may be listening to the radio, or watching the TV (in Europe), or, perhaps, even doing something more interesting in the back seat of a LWB Phaeton. It would be a nuisance if the infotainment system and/or comfort bus powered down quickly under these circumstances.*
I would like to add another scenario to item #3 since you're discussing the electrical system operation.
In my experience if you turn off the engine and leave the key in the ignition the Infotainment system will remain on for quit a while. Probably, the same 55 minutes that you quote. I've never timed it but with the upgraded sound system its not unusual for me to play some tunes before getting out of the car. In addition, though the selection menu button on the steering wheel will not work though you can still use the volumn buttons on the steering wheel.
Maybe you could check with your source and see what the factory spec. is for power on to the Infotainment system once the engine is turned off but leaving the key in the ignition.
Thanks



_Modified by rmg2 at 7:52 AM 1-16-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (rmg2)*

Hi Rick:
Will do - I have to send out an email this week to get further clarification about the radio data text issue.
Michael


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (PanEuropean)*

Thank you.
One other question that you can include in your email.
Have you been able to find out if there is a code that can be implemented to allow (or override the photo sensor) that controls the backlit instrument pod. I'd like to keep the backlit feature on at all times while driving, even in the daylight.
Thanks again.


_Modified by rmg2 at 4:22 PM 1-16-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (rmg2)*

Good request, I'll add it to the inquiry...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery Discharge when Phaeton not used for several days? (PanEuropean)*

*Archival Note:* Related posts concerning battery discharge issues:
Report on first 3000 mile trip, about battery problems Rodger has had, and a preceding post addressing a similar problem in my own car, Two bad batteries. Both of these post present solutions to the problem, although the solutions (to the same problem) are quite different. Another related thread, addressing the same topic, is this one: My Phaeton's electrical problems long gone
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 6:45 PM 9-23-2005_


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## geowben (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (rmg2)*

Rick M. G.'s post of 11/15/04 really helped me. 
Yesterday when I got in my car, everything was dead. Everything. I did the key thing Rick suggested and it started up. I charged it with the charger mentioned in other posts to no avail. So, After an off line discussion with Michael yesterday, I ended up at the dealer today. I had no appointment but they replaced the driver side battery (after they went to another dealer to get one) and I was on my way. Good as new. I continue to be impressed with this dealer, (Surburban VW in Troy). I am even more impressed by this forum. Without Rick's post I would have been stranded.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (geowben)*

Hi George:
Thanks a lot for posting the results of your visit. I think it is possible that we might start to see a fair number of left hand batteries (Vehicle Power Supply Batteries) giving up the ghost at somewhere around the three or four year interval.
To the best of my knowledge, current generation automotive batteries last between 4 and 6 years. Unlike Ni-Cad batteries that are used in aircraft, Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) and conventional lead-acid batteries are not designed to be 'deep cycled'. Those of us who have 2004 Phaetons that shipped with the B version battery management controller - the problem controller that was subsequently replaced with a C or D version as a result of Campaign OH - may find that all those deep discharge cycles that the left hand battery went through while we had the B version controllers in our car have taken a toll on the battery, and have caused it to fail prematurely.
Additionally, many of us bought our new Phaetons long after they had been manufactured. I took delivery of my brand new 2004 Phaeton in October of 2004 with only 3 km on the odometer, but the car was manufactured in September of 2003 - 13 months before it was delivered to me. That means my battery is now into its 4th year of life. It will be over 5 years old before the limited new car warranty expires.
It is quite easy for a VW dealer to determine whether a battery is in good health, or whether it has come to the end of its useful life. VW requires each dealer to have two very sophisticated battery tools, one being the _INC-940 Battery Charging Station_ and the other being the _Midtronics MCR340V Battery Analyzer._ Both of these tools can make an unbiased, objective decision about whether a battery is still serviceable or whether it needs to be replaced. They use slightly different methods to evaluate the battery, so, if the battery gets a 'thumbs down' with one tester, it can be tested with the second device to confirm or deny the validity of the first test. There is a post that illustrates use of the Midtronics MCR340V Battery Analyzer at this link: J367 Battery Monitoring Controller Replacement.
For what it's worth, I know that the left hand battery in my Phaeton is not in good health. It has repeatedly failed both tests, and all I have to do to generate an 'Intervention Load Management' report from the central electrical controller is use the cigarette lighter in the car _once _without starting the engine. However, I am really loathe to replace this battery until it absolutely, positively gasps its last breath and refuses to take a charge at all, first because there are fairly serious environmental issues associated with disposing of the original (dead) battery, and second, because like many of us, I'm old enough to have a 'waste not - want not' mentality that was drilled into me from day 1 by parents who grew up during the Great Depression.
Michael


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (PanEuropean)*

I travel quite a bit and have left my Phaeton in the Garage fro 2 weeks, unlocked, and never had a problem starting it. That is, until I left it for 2 weeks with my trusty V1 radar detector on! The battery was so flat the clock stopped! Not even a glow from the interior lights! Well, after invoking the starter battery - had to use the key, not the start button - she fired right up and a few miles of driving charged her up. Never even threw a fault warning! Guess I'm lucky this time, I'll have to be more careful with the "always on" power plug.
Rob


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (Gobuster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gobuster* »_...after invoking the starter battery - had to use the key, not the start button...

Good point there. If the left battery (the vehicle power supply battery) is discharged, you can't parallel in the starter battery for emergency start purposes by using the start button - you have to use the key blade in the ignition switch.
Michael


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_However, I am really loathe to replace this battery until it absolutely, positively gasps its last breath and refuses to take a charge at all, first because there are fairly serious environmental issues associated with disposing of the original (dead) battery...

According to a program on heavy metals on the History channel, 98% of lead used in the U.S. is recycled. Almost all of this is through car battery recycling. At my shop we get $5 for every battery we send back to NAPA, the supplier of our batteries. Is Canada different in this respect?
I'm certainly not suggesting changing a battery if it's not necessary, but at least in this country the recycling effort has been very successful.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Leaving car unlocked and battery (car_guy)*

Hi Steven:
Thanks for mentioning that, I did not know that there were such recycling programs for batteries. I am pretty sure that we must have a similar program here in Canada.
Michael


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## Hawkeye_Ben (Aug 17, 2008)

*Battery Replacement*

It appears that I may have to replace my left side battery. I will get it checked for certain by my dealer in the morning. Twice in the past 10 days it has been completely dead and took about 12 hours to charge both times.
Can someone provide a good technical reason why AGM batteries are used in these cars? Batteries Plus lists an ordinary lead-acid "flooded" technology battery as a replacement. I am tempted to go that way since they will pro-rate replacement batteries if they don't last 60 months. Why did Volkswagen use AGM technology?
Thanks in advance.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Battery Replacement (Hawkeye_Ben)*

Hi Hawkeye,
I'm sure someone with the technical knowledge to answer your question will chime in soon. However, since you may have to make a decision in the morning, possibly before that someone responds, let me just say this:
In the past 10 months I've tried to read everything I can on this forum, and if I've learned anything it is that *THE LEFT BATTERY IS CRITICAL* to the proper operation and enjoyment of the Phaeton. So, if I were in your postition I would not mess around and just get the OEM part.


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Battery Replacement (remrem)*

Hi there,
First of all, my manual states that the left battery MUST be an AGM, so...
Secondly, AGM batteries are (if I understand well) totally sealed. Just above the battery, you have the fuse panel, and everything is packed up into a tight and non ventilated area where a lot of electronics is also stowed. I would hate to imagine what would happen with a standard lead acid battery if any acid or sulphuric gas would come out through its vent (all standard batteries have a vent, with a small tube to channel out some acid spurts or gases that do occur through electolyse when the battery is recharged). I don't know how the AGM batteries manage it, but they do not have any vent + can be used upside down, ...
The answer to your question may lie in these lines.
P.


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## gibber_2k (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Battery Replacement (Hawkeye_Ben)*

HEre is a good explination, they use AGM batterys because they are better in everyway, discharge less, lighter, more efficient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery Replacement (Hawkeye_Ben)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hawkeye_Ben* »_It appears that I may have to replace my left side battery...

That is a pretty reasonable assumption.
A whole bunch of us are going to have to replace batteries in the coming year. MY 2004 Phaetons were built during 2003, and the original equipment batteries are now well into their 5th year of service. 5 years of service is about the best you can expect from a good quality, contemporary battery. It's a 'wear item', same as tires and brakes.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery Replacement (PanEuropean)*

Below is a picture that shows where you can find the date your battery was manufactured.
Michael


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## Hawkeye_Ben (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Battery Replacement (PanEuropean)*

Thanks all who replied. I had my VW dealer replace the convenience battery this morning. All is well again in Phaeton-nirvana. Too bad it didn't fix the keyless access, the TPMS and the spinning moon roof knob.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Battery Replacement (Hawkeye_Ben)*

Have a problem. My Phaeton has been parked in my garage locked for about 10 days and the remote will not open the doors. Additionally the key will not go in the key slot in the door. Not sure why that would be an issue. I can open the trunk but the Alarm goes off when I do that! 
What can I do to get in the car. The remote shows a green light so I know that battery is good but and the flashing door lights flash. 
Any advice is appreciated. I am leaving town again for a couple of days so I might have to deal with this when I get home. 
Any idea why my key will not go in the slot in the drivers door?
Thanks,
Larry


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## murphybaileysam (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Battery Replacement (Kcmover)*

How about the passenger side door? Could you have moisture in the lock that froze? If so spray some anti freeze for locks in the slot and wait a few minutes and try again.
I had a similar problem pressing the remote to open it and trying the key before I realized I was using the key and remote for a differernt car!







No fun getting old!


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Battery Replacement (murphybaileysam)*

Passenger side door handle has no slot for the key that I could find.
The key on the drivers door only goes in halfway. it's parked in a warm garage so its not iced up!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery Replacement (Kcmover)*

Hi Larry:
See the post I made at this link: Battery issues and Key issue!.
Michael


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Battery Replacement (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_A whole bunch of us are going to have to replace batteries in the coming year.

From the "Physician, heal thyself" file...I was very bad last month. In an attempt to keep miles off the Phaeton while I'm trying to sell it, I made the mistake of letting it sit for about, oh, six weeks. 
As you can imagine, after having to jump-start







the car, according to the dash, armageddon is at hand.







(I _know_ better...) So, I'm hoping the fancy VW Midtronics battery tester/charger will be able to breathe some life back into the batteries. (fingers crossed)


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## george777 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: Battery Replacement (chrisj428)*

As this subject has come up before, I have the same problem (leaving car in garage for several weeks at a time). I'm lucky enough to have a neighbor come by on the weekends and start her up... If you can find a friend or neighbor to do this (while you're away), it would help alot.
I've also purchased the Battery Maintainer and haven't had to use it...yet.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Battery Replacement (george777)*

What does the battery maintainer cost? I know its been discussed over the years..
Larry


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Battery Replacement (Kcmover)*

Larry,
I only reference NAPA because Michael has shown one of their chargers previously. I don't endorse them one way or the other.
They have a Lead Acid/AGM charger for sale on their website for $63.49 plus tax and shipping at this link: AGM Charger


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## george777 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: Battery Replacement (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_
They have a Lead Acid/AGM charger for sale on their website for $63.49 plus tax and shipping at this link: AGM Charger

I recommend that one as well. 
(I'm also NOT affiliated with NAPA or any company advertised on this board)










_Modified by george777 at 12:12 PM 12-19-2008_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:*

Here's a link to a post that discusses replacement of the batteries when they reach end of life (typically about 5 years), and provides the specifications for a replacement battery:

Need help determining correct battery specification.

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photo re-hosted.

Michael


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## flowerphaetonuk (May 15, 2012)

*2 weeks standing no start and alarm*

Curious gremlins likely needing Paneuropean's almighty wisdom;
After returning from a two week holiday in france with the family- wife's car and three kids- breakdown near Le mans on the motorway sunday morning, un-commited breakdown service and garage, succession of rental cars and discussion of various logistics looking forward to an end of the zen-assault course and to press the buttons on the keys to my beloved phaeton waiting patiently and reliably on the drive- what a surprise; no response, alarm diodes kept blinking, tried second keyfob no response either, used key to open door mechanically (key in whole and turn) door opened and after a few seconds alarm started, key in ignition clockwise turn with foot on the brake - nothing. Counterclockwise turn of the key all the way and clockwise again, nothing except continuing alarm, none of the buttons on the infotainment console responding; system indicating which key was in ignition. Closed car again mechanically after removing key by using wire in little whole next to ignition. Pressed open button on keyfob three times no change. Tried to open boot with keyfob no response. Replaced battery in keyfob - no difference- phoned breakdown service RAC Uk. 
Breakdown guy tied to jumpstart via connectors in engine compartment no difference suggested to check battery charge as supposedly second battery to cover if battery discharge- opened boot mechanically with key - both batteries indicated sufficient charge- surpisingly boot closed when using button on lower bootlid edge. RAC guy phoned a VW-mate and tried a few resetting manoevers key anticlockwise in doorlock for sometime followed by clockwise for sometime, foot on breakpedal for a few seconds, checked fuses, diconected both battery negatives for 2 minutes; " to reset CAN-bus. When trying to close boot again not reponding to buttons, closed mechanically, display indicating boot open but unable to lift as if latch partially engaged- arranged flatbed transport to VW-Birmingham last Friday(3 RAC guys and Winch dragging the car with blaring Alarms onto the flatbed truck)
Waiting now for a call telling me that is not the Kessy(they replaced that for water ingress about a year ago so it would probably still be under guarantee)
As it is, on my sunday afternoon cycle to the Coach and Horses pub in Wheatheroak, i saw two other phaetons.
Any ideas anyone?:banghead:

Guenter 
Birmingham, UK


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Hi,

I'm posting this just for information

Recently, I noticed a "weak" engine starting. I had fully charged the right battery but starting did not improve. I went to our VARTA dealer to get new battery. He did a load test and the cranking Amps was just 140A. So I told him to put new one. 
I have changed the original starting battery after 5 years, then the 2nd one after 4 years and I expect the new one to last for another 4 years.

I also asked him to test the original AGM accessories battery (left), the result was 550A (I think it is based on SAE standard) which is lower than the rated CCA but it still holds its charge, and can actually start the engine alone if the right battery is discharged.

My car was manufactured in May 2004, It was parked for one year. After I bought it, I went for many long business trips and vacations during its life without using battery maintainer.

Conclusion: The combination of VRLA starting battery, AGM aux battery, two battery chargers, electric load shedding and the fact that both batteries are kept away from heat sources helps to extend the life of the batteries beyond what is familiar to us, and also helps to keep the car starting more reliable.

I still love this car! even if I'm actually planning to sell it. The replacement must be another Phaeton !


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Waiting now for a call telling me that is not the Kessy(they replaced that for water ingress about a year ago so it would probably still be under guarantee)
> As it is, on my sunday afternoon cycle to the Coach and Horses pub in Wheatheroak, i saw two other phaetons.
> Any ideas anyone?


Hi Guenter,

By now you should have heard from the dealer what the problem was, since they should have had time to do a diagnostics scan, clear the tens of irrelevant DTCs caused by disconnecting both batteries, tried to excercise the key functions again and attempted another scan.

This is an unusual event if the KESSY is still dry. I am all agog to hear what they report.

Do not let them replace anything to do with the boot lid without further thought!

Chris


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## flowerphaetonuk (May 15, 2012)

*They are still working on their backlog from last week,*

They will keep me updatet about further progress- gave me a polo courtesy car- very nice i feel like astudent again

Guenter 
Birmingham, UK[/QUOTE]



Paximus said:


> Hi Guenter,
> 
> By now you should have heard from the dealer what the problem was, since they should have had time to do a diagnostics scan, clear the tens of irrelevant DTCs caused by disconnecting both batteries, tried to excercise the key functions again and attempted another scan.
> 
> ...


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## flowerphaetonuk (May 15, 2012)

*Vw birmingham moving slowly if at all*

Hi Guenter,

By now you should have heard from the dealer what the problem was, since they should have had time to do a diagnostics scan, clear the tens of irrelevant DTCs caused by disconnecting both batteries, tried to excercise the key functions again and attempted another scan.

This is an unusual event if the KESSY is still dry. I am all agog to hear what they report.

Do not let them replace anything to do with the boot lid without further thought!

Chris[/QUOTE]


Hi Chris, 

Thank you for your reply,
So far nothing has happened. Monday they told me the car is next in the que, same again today Friday apparently they discuss everyday in their team meetings most reassuring

Guenter


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Hi Gunther,

Which dealer has your car in Birmingham?

Last year I had to instruct them on how to start my car!

Your problems sound very much like a left hand battery problem, they are exactly what happened to mine when the battery was faulty.

To start, get them to try connecting a jump starter to the both terminals of the LH battery in the boot then waiting 20 seconds.

Best,
Steven


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## flowerphaetonuk (May 15, 2012)

[hi steve, 
vw johnston birmingham centre, 
both batteries where charged, they told me some water and oil near the kessy could be the problem but apperently dry inside waiting for further diagnostics
Keeping figers crossed:laugh: QUOTE=Expoman;83004679]Hi Gunther,

Which dealer has your car in Birmingham?

Last year I had to instruct them on how to start my car!

Your problems sound very much like a left hand battery problem, they are exactly what happened to mine when the battery was faulty.

To start, get them to try connecting a jump starter to the both terminals of the LH battery in the boot then waiting 20 seconds.

Best,
Steven[/QUOTE]


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## flowerphaetonuk (May 15, 2012)

*In for the ride*

Hi Steve,
Some more news; humidity in footwell, earthwire to kessy(inside dry) corroded and high resistance
But fault codes suggesting wiring problem in steiring collum ( i remember this mentioned in the forum as false dtc in connection with kessy repair new mosfets by willem or jorg in the netherlands), suggested to perhaps reset and clear dtc before chasing ghosts and rescan to Rebecca at vw birminghams service department- will try to talk with their technician Mr Ali later.

All the best
Guenter


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Hi Günther,

The dealer name doesn't ring a bell so I must have used another one in Birmingham when I was at the NEC for a show earlier this year.

Having disconnected both batteries, as mentioned previously, the system will be throwing up lots of faults so yes, they need to be cleared before anything can be established.

In all honesty, I have used a number of UK VW dealers and none of them were very knowledgeable to the point where they did not even know that the P had 2 batteries! (I now have my car serviced in France!) so I would take what they say with a pinch of salt and run it past the sages on this forum who do know what they are talking about!

Good luck,

Best,
Steven


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## flowerphaetonuk (May 15, 2012)

Cheers Steven, 
Gathered that much hoping for Michael i.e.Paneuropean to give me a few pointers to push them in the right direction.:laugh:

Guenter


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Guenter,

Michael is still tied up in Indonesia commissioning an aircraft. However, it seems they are making progress on your car at last. 

One well-known problem that gives steering column faults is to do with frayed wires. This thread refers:
"Steering Fault Workshop" message here's the cause and the solution. TOC done

Another problem with frayed wires in the boot lid can cause the lock, motor and lights to work intermittently:
Broken Sleeve on Electrical Harness leading to Trunk Lid How to fix TOC Photos done

The thread above concentrates on breakages in the connector tube, but recently there have been more reports of broken or high resistance wires in the cable cassette in the lid itself.

Any intermittent CAN-bus wiring issues could feasibly keep the car awake and drain the left battery.

Chris


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## flowerphaetonuk (May 15, 2012)

Cheers Chris, 
Had read the steering colum thread and mentioned it to the VW-Technician Mr Ali who is still investigating voltage drop on kessy plug pin no 5. Felt the vortexforum mention required careful diplomacy with VW-techies:laugh:. 

Thank you for the links,
Guenter


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Hi Guenter,
What is so interesting about the voltage drop of pin 5? 
Why would he want to measure voltages of the kessy in the first place, when it is not known what voltage there should be and how it should behave? Is this described in a Phaeton service manual? 

Willem


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## flowerphaetonuk (May 15, 2012)

Hi Willem,

They,VW service Mr Ali told me he is going as per repair manual, spoke to him last wednesday afternoon, have not heard from them since, plan to call him as soon as i get out of theatre for a lunch break. Thank you for getting involved. Will update as soon as i get any news.

Guenter

Phoned them repeatedly, asked to be phoned back, finally at 16:00 go Services on the phone apparently new workshop manager re-prioritized jobs, more information would be available after the weekend!? So far a very frustrating experience going into its third week now- the polo curtesy car so far the only positive aspect!:banghead:

Guenter


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Hi Guenter,

I took a look at the wiring diagram of the kessy, and noted that pin 5 of the 82 pin connector is connected to fuse SB 19 and therefore should be 12 Volts. If there is a voltage drop on this pin, it really should not be so much work to find out what the cause is of the problem.
I have a feeling that your dealer doesn't consider your problem as important, considering the remark of the new service manager. I wouldn't have expected such a remark of a Phaeton authorized dealer. Are you sure that this dealer is P authorized?
Maybe it is better to have it towed to Steven's dealer in France! 
Willem


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## flowerphaetonuk (May 15, 2012)

Thank you Willem, will pass that on to the challenged VW-Johnston team:facepalm:. They by now found out that there is nothing wrong wit the steering-column wiring as suggested in multiple quotes in the forum. They will consult VW central tech support now. Am a little surprised as I did expect them to do that before grabbing their sledgehammers. Getting very fed up as they probably expect me to pay for them learning on the job- Vw Johnston are the biggest VW branch in and around Birmingham UK and claim to have phaeton approved technician, previously a Mr S.Cooper replaced the previous Kessy( water ingress) and did some resealing between passenger and engine compartment a year ago this should imply there would be a least some degree of guarantee for workmanship ie some root-cause analysis. On this occasion technician Mr Ali had been involved, assuming he must be phaeton approved as well- would have to consider the french-connection if all else fails.:laugh:

Cheers

Guenter


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Hi Günther,

I'm sorry to read this is dragging on, it's all horribly reminiscent of my experiences with UK VW dealers who truly do not seem to know what they are doing where the P is concerned and it seems to be often the case in the USA too, from what I read on the Forum.

Without advice from Willem, Michael and Chris, I would never have got to the bottom of the problems I had which lead to a new Kessy and a new LH battery being fitted. The LH battery then failed after 6 months but since I had the new one fitted 5 months ago, all has been fine.

It's a long tow from Birmingham to Saintes, but at least Alain knows what he is doing!

Strange but he is not the least bit sensitive about my quoting bits and bobs from the forum, he finds the idea of the forum very interesting and says that with complex cars, you can never have too much information when fault finding.

Chin up,

Best,
Steven


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## flowerphaetonuk (May 15, 2012)

Hi Steven, after having spent most of August in the Arr. Gironde the Saintes option sounds like holiday comming up
Rebecca from VW-Services luckily told me yesterday the car will be ready for collection this afternoon after they consulted VW in Dresden and replaced the kessy under guaranty as i suggested from the start:screwy:. Keeping fingers and toes crossed and hoping to drive in style again soon:laugh:
Just wondering what what best to do to avoid wet kessies in future ie plastik bag , drying agents inside! Wax sealant? 

Cheers

Guenter


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Hi Gunther,

Sounds like a good option, labour charges are lower here as well, about €75 an hour.

How frustrating!

That's the problem, they don't understand the cars but won't admit it, it took me 35 minutes on the phone with the other VW Dealership in Birmingham before they would do as I told them in order to start the car (they were doing the old classic of trying to jump start it by fixing jump leads to the jumper are under the bonnet!).

No doubt it took Dresden 10 seconds to work out that the problem was the Kessy, good that it's a warranty repair, lots of money otherwise!

I'm pleased to hear that you are about to get your baby back, fingers crossed that this has dealt with all of the problems and they have installed the Kessy correctly (it's a very complex procedure, apparently, nhot the fitting per se but the flashing to it of all of the software, etc - make sure all of your keys work as they will have have to have been recoded so any keys that you have at home won't now work!

Willem is the man to advise of Kessy protection, he was crowned "King Kessy the First of the Netherlands" some while back!

All best,
Steven


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## flowerphaetonuk (May 15, 2012)

Happy end kessy replaced under guaranty. Back to driving like on a flying carpet- thank you every one involved for pep talks, suggestions and to vwjohnstons for their lovely little polo curtesy car

Guenter


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Well, the Polo and the Phaeton do share some components! Just not the ride quality...

Did they explain what the problem was with the KESSY? Is there a risk of (further) corrosion or humidity problems, or did they correct some contributory defect?

Chris


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## flowerphaetonuk (May 15, 2012)

Hi Chris,

Specifically questioned that and was told water ingress is by design very unlikely ie sealed plug conectors and kessy unit. Experience and the multitude of forum posts tell a different story:screwy: Will look myself at floor plugs, plenum chamber surround and cover flaps and perhps wrapping kessy unit in water tight cover- open for suggestion if anyone has experience with this?:wave:

Regards 
Guenter


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Hi Guenter,

In the following thread, you will find the cause of troubles with bottom plugs Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions
One of the pictures is showing a big round plug (next to an oval one). When the round plug is missing, the Kessy will be fully exposed to rain water, splashing into the cavity where the Kessy is bolted to the floor.

There are other possible causes though. Especially when the bottom plugs were properly seated and in good shape after the Kessy failure, then there MUST be another cause.

For example:
Water in Front Footwell (Cleaning Air Intake Plenum and Sunroof Drains)

Or Water Leakage into Cabin by way of Electronics Box in Right Plenum Chamber

Or even Accessing-the-evaporator-drain-Liquid-sloshing-sound-in-cabin

I think that it is best to prevent the problem by checking all possible causes as given above. There are some forum members who have wrapped their kessy's into a plastic bag, but when I wanted to do this myself, I noted that the Kessy is bolted to the floor. The bolts would pinch through the plastic bag, so I decided not to do this and instead regularly inspect the bottom plug, the roof and be alert about sloshing sounds.

Willem


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## flowerphaetonuk (May 15, 2012)

*Working down the list*

Thank you Willem, 
Working down the list of links; 
floor plugs sealed with silicone- paste (aquarium/window sealant)
Evaporator-drains inspected and checked for patency- they might have done that at the garage as both front screws to secure the front end of the console side paneels where missing and the plastic to seat the left one was broken.:what:
Could not find the electric box on the right - there is one on the left with a secured lid(steering wheel on the right in my phaeton V6 diesel)

Thank you for the links - a lot easier to find that way

Much appreciated your advice

Guenter


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