# 1.8T 20v head vs. the 2.0T 16v head



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Hey guys I'm curious to know how does the 2.0T head compare to the 1.8T head (I guess large port) in its ability to flow. Has anyone gotten some CFM #'s from it.
I plan to build a motor in the next few years and I'm just wondering which head yields a better platform (not concerned with displacement or FSI). I was going to lean towards a 2.0T for the simple fact it probably flows close to the large port 1.8T head and 16v's are generally cheaper to build than 20 valves. I would like to have a head capable of an 7500-8000 RPM limiter.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: 1.8T 20v head vs. the 2.0T 16v head (TooLFan46n2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TooLFan46n2* »_Hey guys I'm curious to know how does the 2.0T head compare to the 1.8T head (I guess large port) in its ability to flow. Has anyone gotten some CFM #'s from it.
I plan to build a motor in the next few years and I'm just wondering which head yields a better platform (not concerned with displacement or FSI). I was going to lean towards a 2.0T for the simple fact it probably flows close to the large port 1.8T head and 16v's are generally cheaper to build than 20 valves. I would like to have a head capable of an 7500-8000 RPM limiter.


I've got a few spare 2.0t heads and a shop that can flow it right up the street, 250 bucks. I haven't wanted to drop the coin just yet, if people want to chip in I can go get it done!


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## X K R O M X (Jan 19, 2006)

*Re: 1.8T 20v head vs. the 2.0T 16v head ([email protected])*

I have both these heads (and many others..) I have been meaning to baseleine the FSI heads but have not had time as late, However being a porter I will say the FSI head is truly a better designe then any previous VW/Audi casting I have ever seen. 
~Jarod.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T 20v head vs. the 2.0T 16v head ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I've got a few spare 2.0t heads and a shop that can flow it right up the street, 250 bucks. I haven't wanted to drop the coin just yet, if people want to chip in I can go get it done!

 
I can't find that post where someone from Germany did have his head professionally flow numbers posted in a thread.
It was a few months ago.







Bob.G


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T 20v head vs. the 2.0T 16v head (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
I can't find that post where someone from Germany did have his head professionally flow numbers posted in a thread.
It was a few months ago.







Bob.G


yeah i remember that. the numbers were very impressive too


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T 20v head vs. the 2.0T 16v head (prodigymb)*

I have the same plan, and recently bought an NA FSI here in the UK to do the same thing. Out of curiosity I measured the area of the inlet ports for comparisons sake, and had the following findings:
*AEB* Big port measured perpendicular to the port, NOT at the angle of the intake manifold mating face which is about 15 deg out, has a port cross sectional area of *1216 sq mm* 
*ABF* 2.0 16v as found in Euro mk3 GTI *1336 sq mm*
*AXW* 2.0 FSI (same head casting as the TFSI models *1269 sq mm* 
Based on that, and the much higher valve lift, I'd be amazed if the head didn't flow at the very least as well as a big port 20v, if not better. 
The exhaust ports are as follows:
*AEB* *1018 sq mm* 
*ABF* *1134 sq mm* 
*AXW* *908 sq mm* 
Doesn't sound good for the FSI head there, but it could easily be opened up.
Valve sizes:
*AEB*
Inlet: *27 mm* x3 remember








exhaust: *30 mm*
*ABF*

inlet: *32 mm* 
exhaust: *27 mm* 
*AXW* 

inlet: *34 mm* 
exhaust: *28 mm* 

I would also like to add that the ABF head weighs a ton compared to the 20v head, and that is heavier than the FSI head, so from a racers point of view, it's got to be a big help to the front weight bias and the center of gravity http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: 1.8T 20v head vs. the 2.0T 16v head (polov8)*

thanks for the input guys. Hopefully I can find some comparison numbers in the future. I'm in no rush, I'm still merely in the dreaming phase.


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## chudzikb (Sep 21, 2000)

*Re: 1.8T 20v head vs. the 2.0T 16v head (TooLFan46n2)*

Dreaming would be right, you got no $$$ and a kid is soon arriving! Priorities my friend, priorities, a bomb is about to go off in your life. Been there done that, glad it is now your turn.
However, technically an interesting question.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_


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## Lag (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

It would be nice to know... In for an answer...


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## dubsker (Jan 8, 2006)

you guys forget, that the 2.0t doesnt have to flow fuel through the intake valves. ONLY AIR.


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## jimmy8v (Dec 19, 2004)

*Re: (dubsker)*

In standard guise yes, but from what i've seen of the heads there isn't anything dramatically different about the port itself that would prevent somebody passing air and fuel through them.
I'm particularly interested in them for NA purposes, it would be nice to retain the direct injection but without getting into the realms of proper bosch motorsport ecu's there seems no aftermarket management can control it yet. 
Doesn't stop us using the head with traditional injection though and benefiting from finally getting a good head from vw. I still suspect that it won't be on a par with a duratec or similar though.
I'd like to get my hands on an f3 spec head and injection setup, but i think it will be some time till they get into the hands of privateers.


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## dubsker (Jan 8, 2006)

*Re: (jimmy8v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jimmy8v* »_In standard guise yes, but from what i've seen of the heads there isn't anything dramatically different about the port itself that would prevent somebody passing air and fuel through them.
I'm particularly interested in them for NA purposes, it would be nice to retain the direct injection but without getting into the realms of proper bosch motorsport ecu's there seems no aftermarket management can control it yet. 
Doesn't stop us using the head with traditional injection though and benefiting from finally getting a good head from vw. I still suspect that it won't be on a par with a duratec or similar though.
I'd like to get my hands on an f3 spec head and injection setup, but i think it will be some time till they get into the hands of privateers.

well speaking strictly about air and fuel..
i dont know how much volume the fuel molecules consume passing through a valve, but since the 2.0t doesnt have to flow fuel through the intake valves, its 100% air flowing through, vs say 80% air.
not sure how big of a difference it makes, but its something to consider when talking about flow rate.


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## jimmy8v (Dec 19, 2004)

*Re: (dubsker)*

If we're comparing flow rate, the figures are likely to have been measured by a flow bench, of which all but the most sophisticated flow air alone and measure this. 
Flow figures of heads do not take fuel into account, so if we were to do direct comparisons of flowbench figures, the nature of the injection is irrelevant.
Plus, if we're talking the difference in volume, all other factors being equal, the volume of fuel in a given inlet charge is nowhere near 20%. 
If we're getting into the nature of the flow, the characteristics of an inlet charge(with fuel) versus a pure column of air could well be different. Quantifying and analysing this is a little out of my league. I would of though that this is likely to have little discernible adverse effect if conventional injector placements were retrofitted to this head.
The major headache occurs if you try and mix and match direct and conventional injection for different parts of the rev range, Yamaha had great difficulty with this last season on their moto gp engines. There is a very interesting article in last months RET regarding this.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T 20v head vs. the 2.0T 16v head (polov8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *polov8* »_so from a racers point of view, it's got to be a big help to the front weight bias and the center of gravity http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Losing lifter buckets and thick springs really do help with the combination. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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