# Reverse rotation waterpump



## BlackTie+ (Oct 17, 2003)

Does anyone know of a reverse rotation water pump that might be made?
I want to run a serpentine belt setup but I do not want power steering but I do want a/c.
If I could find a reverse rotation pump I could run the VR waterpump pulley and get an extra long belt and loop it over the top of the pulley.


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (BlackTie+)*

go lay down till these thoughts stop


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (antichristonwheels)*

run an ABF serp belt setup with a VR water pump pulley
then mount the AC where the PS used to be with the same belt


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (BlackTie+)*

I know it looks a bit crazy, but it's becuase I am running the G60 as well as PS, and A/C. As you can see I could eliminate the PS and the belt route would actually be better with more wrap around the crank. I thought of trying to run the Vr impeller, or..., etc , but the vanes would be all wrong as I am sure you know. I was not able to find any 058 style H20 pump that turns in reverse. In ETKA, there is illusion that there is such a creature in Euro, but I am basing this only on the belt routing diagrams. I would say based on mine and others research that there is not. If there is, I would love to find it...


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## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (sdezego)*

thats the craziest belt setup ever


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (CanadianCabby)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CanadianCabby* »_thats the craziest belt setup ever








It really is not all that different from the VWMS G60-16v Limited. ...but yea, it is a bit crazy, but I would rather one run serp belt that that silly serp and V belt setup that VW used


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## BlackTie+ (Oct 17, 2003)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (sdezego)*

I figured I wasn't the last to think of this idea. Thanks for the input to all. 
I think what I will do is take a few measurements of an existing one and model it up on cad and mirror image it and take and export that into CAM and have someone turn me out a new impeller that I will press onto a new pump. 
I think that would be easier and about the same cost as that wild belt setup. 

Putting the A/C down where the power steering pump is will not work. There is not enough clearance.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (BlackTie+)*

You will need to change the vanes and channels inside the pump housing as well to account for the reverse impeller.
It certainly can be done and I have already through it out in my mind. I just need to finish my existing project first, before I can revise it LOL.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_You will need to change the vanes and channels inside the pump housing as well to account for the reverse impeller.
It certainly can be done and I have already through it out in my mind. I just need to finish my existing project first, before I can revise it LOL.

Also, here are the diagrams out of ETKA (bottom left 2) that I was eluding to above. When you click on them they come back as part number unknown, so I assume that it was some euro model?? I know these bottom two are only diagrams, but this is ETKA and you can clearly see the Vr6 is above them.
Maybe it was some Euro Diesel 4cyl model or something???


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## BlackTie+ (Oct 17, 2003)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_You will need to change the vanes and channels inside the pump housing as well to account for the reverse impeller.


oh I am sure I would have spotted that as soon as I picked up a waterpump housing,,, but yeah that had escaped my mind for now. ,,
Who is REALLY good at sand casting, lol.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
Maybe it was some Euro Diesel 4cyl model or something???


Which car were you looking at? I'll check Euro Etka for you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I've never seen anything with the pump running backwards tho. I did see someone put the belt on a 2E motor (ABA) wrong so the pump ran backwards and it didn't seem to make any difference to the car at all! They had been running it like that for months and it never overheated


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (MikkiJayne)*

it was a Mk3 Golf.
Yea, I know a couple of others to run them backward, but I can't see that working well. Especially here in FL..


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (sdezego)*

I'm stumped







I have the same diagram, and I can't find any model that uses that setup, over the entire Euro range
 






There are a couple of other similar diagrams for the Polo which show another variation of the backwards pump, but again I can't find a single model that uses it.
Sorry!


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (MikkiJayne)*

maybe the artist who did the drawings was on a mescaline trip or something








Thanks for checking it out. At least I know that there does not appear to be a Euro model with it either.


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## BlackTie+ (Oct 17, 2003)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (sdezego)*

I has also asked this question in the 8v forum. It was suggested to go with and electric waterpump. The option is one I am considering. Maybe I could just mount an adjustable idler pulley to take the place of the power steering pump also...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4099067


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## Scurvy Bandit (Sep 12, 2003)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (BlackTie+)*

I also know there are some euro 1.6 liters and 1.3 liters... these engines may be the ones shown. I also heard there was a 1.1 liter, never seen it though. (These are in newer cars as well) 
It may be one of those pictured in ETKA instead of a diesel.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (Scurvy Bandit)*

The Euro small-blocks use a completely different belt setup, as the water pump is on the back of the block driven by the cam belt. The crank pulley only drives the alternator, PS and AC. Its actually cut off the top of the top of the pic above in Euro Etka.
Maybe we should start a competition or something to work out that that picture is from? Maybe someone from a VW parts dept in Europe could work it out?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (Scurvy Bandit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scurvy Bandit* »_I also know there are some euro 1.6 liters and 1.3 liters.

They are the ones shown above and they do not work on the 1.8+ blocks.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (Wizard-of-OD)*

The 1.3 and 1.6 aren't in that pic - they are cut off the top of it.
The bottom left (10) and middle (11) are both 1.8s where C is the water pump - these are the ones I can't find anywhere.
The bottom right (12) is a new style 1.8 with cam-belt driven water pump.
The middle left (9) is a VR6.
The hidden one with 3 highlighted is a 1.8 with serp-driven alternator and water pump, and v-driven PS.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (MikkiJayne)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MikkiJayne* »_
The bottom left (10) and middle (11) are both 1.8s where C is the water pump - these are the ones I can't find anywhere.

Michaela
I am telling you they do not work.The European TDI blocks have a different water pump bolt pattern to the 9A/ABA/ABF blocks.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (Wizard-of-OD)*

I think we're discussing different points here!
I was saying those two diagrams in question aren't the small block 1.3 / 1.6s, but _something_ based around the big block 1.8-2.0. But, I have no idea what they are.
Euro diesels are exactly the same as NA afaik. They use the same block style with external water pump and serp belt setup as the gassers, up until the one in the mk4 which goes to the internal water pump block like the later 1.8T.
What am I missing about this? I have a 1Z TDI in my 'rado and the belt setup is identical to an ABA / ABF. I have a AHU block in my kitchen and the water pump mountings _look _identical to the gassers:


















_Modified by MikkiJayne at 11:07 AM 11-8-2008_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (MikkiJayne)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MikkiJayne* »_
*Euro diesels are exactly the same as NA afaik*. They use the same block style with external water pump and serp belt setup as the gassers, up until the one in the mk4 which goes to the internal water pump block like the later 1.8T.

They are not.,ask VW why they did that.
I will show you on monday or when I get time to write up the serpentine belt thread.I have one of those set ups.Thats how I know what works and what does not work.In the same ETKA file you will find 1.3 & 1.6 serpentine set ups hence my original post.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
They are the ones shown above and they do not work on the 1.8+ blocks.









Do you have a pic of one? If what you are saying is true, it seems it would easy to fab an adapter or re-weld the housing, etc. It's the reverse blades and opposite vanes that are the real plus in this setup.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
Do you have a pic of one? If what you are saying is true, it seems it would easy to fab an adapter or re-weld the housing, etc. It's the reverse blades and opposite vanes that are the real plus in this setup.

Been there,done that....onto my second housing now.
I am casting up my own bracket but funds have been really low (damn economy).Basically what I did was I welded the Passat VR6 OBD-I power steering pump bracket (it is a separate bracket from the remaining accessories) onto a spare ABF alternator bracket,sanded down the welds and had a rough prototype made.I included a boss for an idler pulley so that you could still run the clockwise rotation water pump.The above set up will set you back roughly 600US as the water pump housing & bracket are casted into one complete piece.


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## 2doorV6 (Jan 29, 2003)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (BlackTie+)*

how about the canadian mk3 1.8liter with counterflow i had one at my shop and it was just such an odd duck just an idea


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (2doorV6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2doorV6* »_how about the canadian mk3 1.8liter with counterflow i had one at my shop and it was just such an odd duck just an idea

Nothing odd about that motor.It was just a 1.8 block with a crossflow head.ACC I believe was the engine code.


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## freeflow90 (Apr 19, 2003)

*Re: Reverse rotation waterpump (Wizard-of-OD)*

I ran my 2L xflow with the waterpump reversed because of my belt setup. it was a tight fit with the belt. couldnt even tell never had a issue car didnt run hot or anything.








I did end up getting the correct belt and routed the correct way!


_Modified by freeflow90 at 9:44 AM 11-13-2008_


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

*FV-QR*

The green line is the way to run everything (alternator, ac compressor, water pump, power steering pump) off one belt.
the red line is how to run everything but air conditioning
the blue belt is how to run everything but power steering. 
If you want to drop power steering and air conditioning, then there is no need for the additional idler pulleys, and you dont have to flip the tensioner. then you simply have the INA abf kit, but with aba components (just alternator and water pump.)
hope this image helps, the ps pulley is just pasted in place, but that is roughly where it is at on the engine. The only thing left to figure out is which pulley is needed for the power steering pump to yield the correct offset.










_Modified by yeayeayea at 8:23 PM 12-1-2008_


_Modified by yeayeayea at 8:29 PM 12-1-2008_


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

*FV-QR*

updated pic, with mk4 TDI crank pulley and ps pump mounted up.
















http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=2


_Modified by yeayeayea at 7:55 PM 12-7-2008_


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