# Gonzo tuning announces no more support for Frankenturbo F23 w/n75



## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

On the Gonzo tuning facebook page until further notice no more support for F23's w/n75. :sly:
Just as I'm in the market for a F23 with eventual Gonzo E85 tune for it.

Some people posted up the actuators are the issue, anyone know the details? I supposed MBC is the way to go now, but I've heard removing the N75 and going straight MBC causes pretty jerky part throttle operation, any truth to this?


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> On the Gonzo tuning facebook page until further notice no more support for F23's w/n75. :sly:
> Just as I'm in the market for a F23 with eventual Gonzo E85 tune for it.
> 
> Some people posted up the actuators are the issue, anyone know the details? I supposed MBC is the way to go now, but I've heard removing the N75 and going straight MBC causes pretty jerky part throttle operation, any truth to this?


Yeah, it's *more than likely *the actuator on the Frankenturbo that's causing the issues. I only say this because I'm having issues too. From what I've seen on my own set up (all my opinion based on troubleshooting), the FT actuators seem to have a very weak spring. Over time it loses its tension, and makes tuning a nightmare. I'm in the process of swapping out the ft actuator for a Forge, and if I'm right it will fix the issues I'm having (zero boost at part throttle while using MBC only). And running with the N75 is better, but not enough to fix the issue. Honestly, im surprised he doesnt just say "NO Frankenturbo tunes running the FT actuator". I think that might be a better call. But thats up to him of course. Im pretty sure that's why Gonzo is dropping his support. He's getting tired of people that are unhappy with their boost control abilities. There could be a way around this. I'll know more soon. I'm sure Max and the rest of the guys will throw their .02 in as well.

If I misread any of my assumptions, I apologize. But this is what I've gathered so far. Given the fact that I'm in the middle if this, I thought I might be able to add some insight.


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## FatAce (Jan 30, 2012)

Being as this was what I had planned as far as tuning do you suggest I shoot for a forge WGA before I even slap everything together?


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

There are several different flavors of internal WG actuators on ATP's site ranging from 6 to 22 psi in spring rate with the most expensive at ~$75 so the Forge isn't the only option. You may have to get creative with a mounting bracket and or bending the rod to install it though. N75's suck. :laugh:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

FatAce said:


> Being as this was what I had planned as far as tuning do you suggest I shoot for a forge WGA before I even slap everything together?


Just hold off until I can do mine. Then we should know if we're right or not.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

20v master said:


> There are several different flavors of internal WG actuators on ATP's site ranging from 6 to 22 psi in spring rate with the most expensive at ~$75 so the Forge isn't the only option. You may have to get creative with a mounting bracket and or bending the rod to install it though. N75's suck. :laugh:


N75's actually are pretty damn good when tuned properly. Gonzo's ability to make ANY properly designed hardware perform like stock is a testament to this. From my Gonzo Tuning GTT Hybrid to GT3071R's he can make them smooth as butter with the N75. 

For the people that want a good tune and already have a F23 ditching that wastegate is a MUST. It's inconsistent and the preload is never the same on them. The only way to make it work "ok" is to increase the preload therefore shortening the amount of wategate travel, which is no good. With these turbos EGT's are already high, you don't want to do anything to make them worse.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

20v master said:


> There are several different flavors of internal WG actuators on ATP's site ranging from 6 to 22 psi in spring rate with the most expensive at ~$75 so the Forge isn't the only option. You may have to get creative with a mounting bracket and or bending the rod to install it though. N75's suck. :laugh:


:facepalm:
opcorn:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

warranty225cpe said:


> :facepalm:
> opcorn:



I know, right. It is rather entertaining watching you chase your tail with actuators, adjusting preload, swapping MBC and N75, debating what bolts to use, replacing gaskets, custom tuning with a pre turbo exhaust leak, and just generally struggling. I hope youre enjoying it as much as I am. I've had several suggestions that could have helped you along the way, but its clear you have it all figured out on your own. :beer:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> N75's actually are pretty damn good when tuned properly. Gonzo's ability to make ANY properly designed hardware perform like stock is a testament to this. From my Gonzo Tuning GTT Hybrid to GT3071R's he can make them smooth as butter with the N75.


A solenoid is a solenoid, its the logic that controls them that affect the smoothness. I believe everything you and others have said about Gonzo's ability. However, I prefer to be able to adjust WOT target boost without a software update and to be able to control boost over 22 psi, which N75's don't allow either. Why build a motor and run a 3071 to only have 22psi and/or no control over any higher boost levels?:thumbdown:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Looks like we're gonna have to throw up a troll alert.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Well, I just got done swapping the Forge in with the red spring. It's a night and day difference. It boosts smoothly, all the way to 26psi. I think it's safe to say my problem was my FT actuator. The new forge has just a bit of preload past seated. It feels amazing! My charge pipe to turbo hose popped off, but it felt awesome right up until then. More to follow.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

20v master said:


> A solenoid is a solenoid, its the logic that controls them that affect the smoothness. I believe everything you and others have said about Gonzo's ability. However, I prefer to be able to adjust WOT target boost without a software update and to be able to control boost over 22 psi, which N75's don't allow either. Why build a motor and run a 3071 to only have 22psi and/or no control over any higher boost levels?:thumbdown:


Actually there's a way to control boost over 22psi with the N75. I'm doing it right now with Maestro holding 25-26psi all day and 30 with my other file. Just gotta know which map to change.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

*My F23 on hold*

Well I was 90% ready to buy the F23 especially after talking to Doug at Frankenturbo. They are backordered to July 1 anyway.

Until the actuator problem with the F23 is fixed I'm not buying one, or if they discount it the cost of a Forge actuator then I am back in.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

toy4two2 said:


> On the Gonzo tuning facebook page until further notice no more support for F23's w/n75. :sly:
> Just as I'm in the market for a F23 with eventual Gonzo E85 tune for it.
> 
> Some people posted up the actuators are the issue, anyone know the details?



Gonzo tuning requested us to alter our 12psi preload specification to facilitate their efforts to tune this turbo, telling us they would drop support if we didn't comply. However we are not changing this specification as it has proven successful in the hands of many other tuners. Consistency in all aspects of our products is key to their compatibility with our tuning partners' products. The 12psi preload specification has been in place since this turbo's introduction, and will continue to be.



DMVDUB said:


> Gonzo's ability to make ANY properly designed hardware perform like stock is a testament to this. From my Gonzo Tuning GTT Hybrid to GT3071R's he can make them smooth as butter with the N75.
> 
> For the people that want a good tune and already have a F23 ditching that wastegate is a MUST. It's inconsistent and the preload is never the same on them. The only way to make it work "ok" is to increase the preload therefore shortening the amount of wategate travel, which is no good. With these turbos EGT's are already high, you don't want to do anything to make them worse.


I would like to believe that Gonzo is a competent tuner. And if you say he could tune his own, competing hybrid turbo product to your satisfaction, then I take that at face value. However, you simply do not have the evidence to back up declarations like "ditching that wastegate is a must" nor the authority to prescribe the "only way to make it work ok". The F23 has been sold worldwide for over two years now. As I have said elsewhere, any "issues" with its actuator are present only in association with Gonzo tuning.



toy4two2 said:


> Well I was 90% ready to buy the F23 especially after talking to Doug at Frankenturbo. They are backordered to July 1 anyway.
> 
> Until the actuator problem with the F23 is fixed I'm not buying one, or if they discount it the cost of a Forge actuator then I am back in.



Forge makes an excellent product, and I am sure their actuators would complement our F23 turbocharger nicely. However, thorough testing of our own actuator has shown it to deliver the performance our customers expect -- provided they go to a tuner who has sufficient command of the boost duty tables in these cars' ECUs. In the case of tuners who don't, then a manual boost controller in parallel to the car's original-equipment N75 valve is a good workaround.

Lastly, one thing that is true is our current back-order status. These turbos sell well, because they're designed and tested to be the best value possible. If any of you have further questions about our products, feel free to email or PM me.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I would like to believe that Gonzo is a competent tuner. And if you say he could tune his own, competing hybrid turbo product to your satisfaction, then I take that at face value. However, you simply do not have the evidence to back up declarations like "ditching that wastegate is a must" nor the authority to prescribe the "only way to make it work ok". The F23 has been sold worldwide for over two years now. As I have said elsewhere, *any "issues" with its actuator are present only in association with Gonzo tuning.
> *


That's a little far fetched Doug. There were threads in the 1.8T forum a year ago addressing WG issues. You admitted to having issues with the WG and even tried an aftermarket solution. You have admitted to having high EGT's which are from having the preload set higher. Every thread that WAS on this forum stating issues has been removed, which seems pretty convenient seeing that advertisers get a bias on here.

I get calls from people with your F23 on a weekly / biweekly basis with other tunes (I'm not saying any names because that's not the point) wanting us to fix boost issues they are having. It's hard to tell someone that already has spent ~$500 on software that they need to change the tune and it always comes down to the actuator. 

Doug, I touted your product for almost it's entire life. I'm only stating what I've seen with my own eyes. (Declined a customer last week because the actuator wouldn't react properly unless it was clamped down or run parallel. Running a MBC parallel is a bandaid for a bigger problem.)

You should be taking the criticism as constructive instead of malicious.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Gonzo tuning requested us to alter our 12psi preload specification to facilitate their efforts to tune this turbo, telling us they would drop support if we didn't comply. However we are not changing this specification as it has proven successful in the hands of many other tuners. Consistency in all aspects of our products is key to their compatibility with our tuning partners' products. The 12psi preload specification has been in place since this turbo's introduction, and will continue to be.


Complete and TOTAL bullsh|t!!
Your "12psi" actuator couldn't even make a steady 9psi when running off of WG (with YOUR setting)


[email protected] said:


> However, you simply do not have the evidence to back up declarations like "ditching that wastegate is a must" nor the authority to prescribe the "only way to make it work ok". The F23 has been sold worldwide for over two years now. As I have said elsewhere, any "issues" with its actuator are present only in association with Gonzo tuning.


 I ABSOLUTELY have the evidence. I've tested both actuators on my set-up, and they are incapable of doing their job. They move with ANY positive pressure. The testing you claim you do is more bullsh|t. Sending parts to customers to try out does NOT constitute testing.


[email protected] said:


> Forge makes an excellent product, and I am sure their actuators would complement our F23 turbocharger nicely.


Oh really..? Then why we're you so insistent that I run the FT actuator instead of the Forge? You even told me the Forge was a lesser product than the FT actuator. 


[email protected] said:


> However, thorough testing of our own actuator has shown it to deliver the performance our customers expect -- provided they go to a tuner who has sufficient command of the boost duty tables in these cars' ECUs. In the case of tuners who don't, then a manual boost controller in parallel to the car's original-equipment N75 valve is a good workaround. Lastly, one thing that is true is our current back-order status. These turbos sell well, because they're designed and tested to be the best value possible.


:wave:
Sorry Doug, but your failure to take responsibility for your products is appalling. I will no longer support or recommend Frankenturbo to anyone. What really bothers me is that people contact you with the problems they are having with YOUR stuff, and you can't even man up and deal with it. You simply overload them with ideas on troubleshooting, til they get frustrated and give up. Had you been representing FT like you should, all of this would have been over/rectified a long time ago. Make no mistake, you ARE responsible for all of these FT owners chasing their tales for weeks, months. And you can't even cop to it. The word "shameful" comes to mind.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

*now what*

It seems like all it would take to fix the F23 problems would be to include the $65 MBC as mandatory in the kit and/or one of those $75 actuators that are sold by ATP, are *both *needed for a reliable setup? Couldn't Frankenturbo just include these bits from the start?

Does anyone know WHICH ATP actuator to buy to work with the F23?

7psi one: http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...de=tp&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-019&Category_Code=

12-14psi one: http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...de=tp&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-025&Category_Code=


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> It seems like all it would take to fix the F23 problems would be to include the $65 MBC as mandatory in the kit and/or one of those $75 actuators that are sold by ATP, are *both *needed for a reliable setup? Couldn't Frankenturbo just include these bits from the start?
> Does anyone know WHICH ATP actuator to buy to work with the F23?
> 7psi one: http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...de=tp&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-019&Category_Code=
> 12-14psi one: http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...de=tp&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-025&Category_Code=


 It's not FTs responsibility to offer a MBC. But he should disclose that it's probably going to be needed. The same cant be said about the need for a better actuator. Since this factor is a "known" issue, he should address it (and has had plenty of time to rectify it). Instead he either likes to point fingers to redirect the blame, or isn't smart enough to recognize the evidence. While guilty of fuzzy math and wild conjecture, I DON'T think Doug is stupid. He's fully aware of these problems and has been for some time.


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## deltaP (Jul 26, 2011)

opcorn:


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## D2O (May 12, 2012)

I'm just going to add in that I had a hardware issue leading to a damaged compressor and Doug completely 'man'd up' and took care of me. I have been completely satisfied with the F23 and Doug's amazing responsiveness.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

D2O said:


> I'm just going to add in that I had a hardware issue leading to a damaged compressor and Doug completely 'man'd up' and took care of me. I have been completely satisfied with the F23 and Doug's amazing responsiveness.


As he should. It's called "doing the right thing". *Integrity*: doing the right thing.. Even when nobody's looking". Not just when it's convienent.


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

20v master said:


> There are several different flavors of internal WG actuators on ATP's site ranging from 6 to 22 psi in spring rate with the most expensive at ~$75 so the Forge isn't the only option. You may have to get creative with a mounting bracket and or bending the rod to install it though. N75's suck. :laugh:


Forgot about those - thanks for the reminder that they exist! I just emailed ATP to see if their "universal" 22psi actuator will work with my K03... or at least be easily massaged into place.

The last n75 I used was in the "J" flavour and it worked well... but my Forge Unos is silky smooth - love it... not sure that I'd ever switch back :beer:


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

All_Euro said:


> Forgot about those - thanks for the reminder that they exist! I just emailed ATP to see if their "universal" 22psi actuator will work with my K03... or at least be easily massaged into place.
> 
> The last n75 I used was in the "J" flavour and it worked well... but my Forge Unos is silky smooth - love it... not sure that I'd ever switch back :beer:


Let us know how it works. The stock actuator on the F23 is the only thing holding me back from placing my order. Is this the actuator you are buying:
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...de=tp&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-036&Category_Code=


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> Let us know how it works. The stock actuator on the F23 is the only thing holding me back from placing my order. Is this the actuator you are buying:
> http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...de=tp&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-036&Category_Code=


That was the one I asked ATP about. Their response was really quick actually and they said it will work perfectly once fitted… but mounting a Garrett part to a BW turbo may take some work 

I have an extra WG actuator but it doesn't look like the mounting bracket will separate willingly. I'll post up if I find a solution :thumbup:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

You guys might be able to use the mounting bracket from the F23 or stock unit.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

All_Euro said:


> That was the one I asked ATP about. Their response was really quick actually and they said it will work perfectly once fitted… but mounting a Garrett part to a BW turbo may take some work
> 
> I have an extra WG actuator but it doesn't look like the mounting bracket will separate willingly. I'll post up if I find a solution :thumbup:


 
It will separate with some work, below I copied and pasted the Frankenstein one I succesfully run in my car now. I have all pieces of the puzzle together and will be sending you something to test soon (I just need to have a few braket machined with the universal 2 hole mounting and no more doctor octopus for you my friend). :beer:

_"Latest evolution of my wastegate actuation saga. The external springs on the OEM actuator is a nice and effective solution... but when you're trying to get an actuator that cracks open at 3 psi to do so at 28 psi, you quickly run out of real estate to hook external springs. _

_This solution gets me started with a canister that cracks open at 25 psi and don't see full travel until 35 psi. I doubt I'll need external springs with this one, no matter what pressure is seen in the hotside (I might not even need a boost controller, just run wastegate pressure ). I'll try to do some runs tonight and report my findings!_

_OEM actuator cut off and new hig psi actuator welded to OEM bracket with rod trimmed to length. "_
_







_

_







_


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

20v master said:


> There are several different flavors of internal WG actuators on ATP's site ranging from 6 to 22 psi in spring rate with the most expensive at ~$75 so the Forge isn't the only option. You may have to get creative with a mounting bracket and or bending the rod to install it though. N75's suck. :laugh:


Only problem with most of the universal actuator sold by ATP is the actuator rod thickness. The block that attaches to the wastegate flap where the actuator rod goes through (turbine side), either needs to be enlarged a bit - or the actuator rod has to be modified to be slimmer to fit without drilling of the turbine mounting block.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Max, Ive got that actuator for you. text me your shipping address again and Ill send it out.


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> It will separate with some work, below I copied and pasted the Frankenstein one I succesfully run in my car now. I have all pieces of the puzzle together and will be sending you something to test soon (I just need to have a few braket machined with the universal 2 hole mounting and no more doctor octopus for you my friend). :beer:
> 
> _"Latest evolution of my wastegate actuation saga. The external springs on the OEM actuator is a nice and effective solution... but when you're trying to get an actuator that cracks open at 3 psi to do so at 28 psi, you quickly run out of real estate to hook external springs. _
> 
> _This solution gets me started with a canister that cracks open at 25 psi and don't see full travel until 35 psi. I doubt I'll need external springs with this one, no matter what pressure is seen in the hotside (I might not even need a boost controller, just run wastegate pressure ). I'll try to do some runs tonight and report my findings!_


Sweet - nice work as usual Max :thumbup:

Haha, Doc has done well for me but you're right about the real estate… she's getting a little cozy


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

warranty225cpe said:


> Max, Ive got that actuator for you. text me your shipping address again and Ill send it out.


Cool, sending you a text right now. Thanks!


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

All_Euro said:


> Sweet - nice work as usual Max :thumbup:
> 
> Haha, Doc has done well for me but you're right about the real estate… she's getting a little cozy


Somehow I liked doc octopus, I was never skilled enough to hook my springs up as nicely as you did. Mine always looked like some nasty contraption.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

so much LoL in this here threadz :laugh:


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

warranty225cpe said:


> You guys might be able to use the mounting bracket from the F23 or stock unit.


How about we take this one step further, for those of us replacing the stock turbo with an F23 seems like we could just swap over our original OEM actuators ?


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> How about we take this one step further, for those of us replacing the stock turbo with an F23 seems like we could just swap over our original OEM actuators ?


You could. But why put a used actuator on a new turbo? Actuators do fail over time. Cheap insurance if you ask me.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

warranty225cpe said:


> You could. But why put a used actuator on a new turbo? Actuators do fail over time. Cheap insurance if you ask me.


... and the fact that the OEM actuators start to crack open before 5 psi doesn't help the situation. These things were designed to work with a turbo boosting 12 psi, when you're running a hybrid with a tune that ask for twice that boost, the OEM actuators become a weak sauce that seriously limit the performance potential because of the energy wasted through exhaust bleed.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> ... and the fact that the OEM actuators start to crack open before 5 psi doesn't help the situation. These things were designed to work with a turbo boosting 12 psi, when you're running a hybrid with a tune that ask for twice that boost, the OEM actuators become a weak sauce that seriously limit the performance potential because of the energy wasted through exhaust bleed.


Tell me about it. I just adjusted preload on the Forge and its starting to feel right. getting 26psi right now. Since my N75 doesnt allow me to adjust boost peak, Im having to do that by finding the right position on this 21-30lb spring till Im boosting where I want. Feeling the Tq put you in your seat is an addictive feeling.


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

and I can attest to being a proponent of NOT doing the Band-Aid fix on a k04/hybrid/f23 and NOT using the N75. Driveability sucks...and I did a lot of tuning/playing around with Maestro as well to try and improve it to no avail. No N75 on small frame...just isn't right. 

Have the Forge actuator as well. Awesome unit, designed well, truly tunable. Only replaced stock (that was running Max's original spring mod) due to the OEM developing a diaphrapm leak...

couldn't be happier with what I have. 

A bit worried about what I'm seeing on the F23 side of things here  We need some good options on this side of the pond for K04 hybrids. 

Joe


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> and I can attest to being a proponent of NOT doing the Band-Aid fix on a k04/hybrid/f23 and NOT using the N75. Driveability sucks...and I did a lot of tuning/playing around with Maestro as well to try and improve it to no avail. No N75 on small frame...just isn't right.
> 
> Have the Forge actuator as well. Awesome unit, designed well, truly tunable. Only replaced stock (that was running Max's original spring mod) due to the OEM developing a diaphrapm leak...
> 
> ...


Sorry, Im not sure Im understanding you.. Are you sayind DONT use the N75? Or Dont use the MBC by itself?


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

USE the n75 with a MBC. Do not delete the n75 and adjust maps to accommodate in maestro. On a small frame unit, the drivability was horrible. 

On BT...I get it.

Now I run the n75 back in the system with the MBC controlling spike/onset vs. max boost. Could install another MBC to increase max boost as well but it is a bit pointless to do when you can manipulate the maps in Maestro to properly allow it to see more than 22psi with issue (map sensor limit) . 

That is next on my list.

Joe


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

couldn't we "fix" the FT actuator by adding 2 of the large Home Depot springs, I believe each is good for 7lbs, so two should give 14psi or is there something bigger wrong with the FT actuator the springs won't work.

I'm just not able to weld on a ATP actuator at home.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

toy4two2 said:


> couldn't we "fix" the FT actuator by adding 2 of the large Home Depot springs, I believe each is good for 7lbs, so two should give 14psi or is there something bigger wrong with the FT actuator the springs won't work.
> 
> I'm just not able to weld on a ATP actuator at home.


Technically you could, but nobody is going to recommend that you. The turbo manufacturer himself is insisting that there is nothing wrong with the actuator spring rate being so low (not talking overly preloading the rod to bandaid fix the problem), epecially on a hybrid turbo that I'd hope is designed to be pushed beyond the stock turbo levels. I've even mentioned it to him several time on the forum, but he avoided the topic as if it was the plague... and believe me, I respect his position because it's his right to not want to discuss potential development of his product (that's why I never pushed the issue). 

Take it for what it's worth: "Personally, if I was running a hybrid turbo, any hybrid turbo, actuators with stock internal spring rates and some extra preload would have no business taking care of my wastegate control" (street or track). :beer:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> couldn't we "fix" the FT actuator by adding 2 of the large Home Depot springs, I believe each is good for 7lbs, so two should give 14psi or is there something bigger wrong with the FT actuator the springs won't work.
> 
> I'm just not able to weld on a ATP actuator at home.


Ive tried 2,3,4 springs. Still not right. Never trust an actuator made in China with German writing on the side. 
:sly:


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

looks like Im going to have to go ATP, the Smog-holes in California fail us on Forge, the bling catches their eye, actually its just an excuse to fail to get their numbers up...you see there is this new STAR smog program in Cali and in order to qualify your shop you need to fail X number of people, so the smog shops are being extra anal to hit this number. :facepalm:

I think I found a solution to the welding issue, now just need to know what bracket to use.

Rod extension kit: http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=ATP-FTG-032&Category_Code=WGT

Possible bracket: http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-021&Category_Code=WGT


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Not sure how they would see the actuator, but ok.


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