# Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow.



## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

For those considering purchasing or leasing a Touareg, make sure you read all the good and bad posts here first, to educate yourself before maybe a decision. This post is not to make those with no problems mad at me, but simply to let potential buyers know about the issues that they MIGHT face. With that said here is my nightmare.
Leased an 04, V8, PPS, Air Suspension, pretty much loaded, sticker was over $51k, in May 2004. Huge list of problems as well as the annoying things that others complain about. A couple TSB's that were taken care of before we picked up the car. We bought the car 180 miles from us, the only VW dealer that we felt good about dealing with. Our first 2 VW's (2001 Jetta and 2003 Passat) were bought at the other dealerships and both of those dealerships were horrible. So, in order to get any of the problems fixed we need to drive 360 miles round trip. This is our fault for not buying closer to us, or whatever, but even if the dealership was minutes away, we would be there way too many times for a $51k vehicle. So, we have been forced to live with many of the gremlins and problems rather than road tripping for everything that comes up. I will not bother listing all the problems, but if anyone would like to know, I can post them all. Nothing new to this forum, everything has been posted here tons of times already.
We looked into getting out of this car for something more reliable and found out that our $51k Touareg is worth $30k as a trade in, less than 6 months after we got it. Seeing that we leased the thing, we are still into the car for $47k, so we would lose $17,000 if we traded it in. Even if we could sell the thing for $40k (not likely when you can buy a brand new one for around that now) we would have to come up with $7,000 just to pay off the balance. So, now we are stuck with the car, unless we want to pay a ton to get rid of it.
So, on to the title of my post. I live in Lake Tahoe. It snowed last night, about 6-8 inches. I tried to take my daughter to school this morning, but couldn't get out of the driveway. The tires spun, no matter what I did. I have lived in the snow for 15 years, so don't think I don't know how to drive in the snow. Low range, raised suspension to Off Road height, everything I could do. Shoveled ALL snow out from under 3 tires since it slid into a little deeper pile of snow with the fourth tire. All 4 tires just spun, all at different times, like it was trying to get traction but never did. Too make matters worse, ALL my neighbors drove out of their driveways while I was going through this. A Toyota mini van, a couple subarus, a 4 Runner and a few older 2 wheel drive cars were driving up my street as I sat there stuck on the side of the street for them to have to go around me. Embarrassing and unacceptable. This vehicle is advertised as a superior off road machine, it should at least be able to get out of a flat driveway in 6 inches of snow. The tires that VW puts on this thing are the worst excuse for an all weather tire I have ever seen. I had to PUSH the car back into the driveway. Luckily, I had a backup, my Nissan Titan, which got out of the driveway in 2 wheel drive. I'm glad I bought that a couple months ago, never thought I would need another vehicle to get around in the winter. I thought buying the Touareg was a good idea, so my wife would have a car for all conditions, but now we have to use my truck in the winter and can only use the Touareg when the snow is gone. Really?
Enough. Let the flames begin. I didn't post to get flamed, but I know I will. I am not expecting any replies actually, I only wanted potential buyers to have all the information they can before they make a decision. I wish I could be one of the guys saying how great my experience has been. I was on a waiting list the day I heard a Touareg was going to be coming out. I got one as soon as I could, bragged about how great it was, etc. and now I have to explain to people why I want to get rid of it. Makes me look pretty bad. I WISH I opened my eyes to all the negative posts on this forum BEFORE I got mine, it would have saved me a lot of time, money and stress.


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## anothercar (Dec 20, 2002)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

I've never been stuck in the treg in anything.


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## spikeital (May 21, 2001)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

No flaming here Skymarx, which 18's tires do you have? Ever think about switching to dedicated winters? 
Good Luck,
Spikeital


_Modified by spikeital at 2:00 PM 10-20-2004_


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## leebo (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skdmarx* »_...The tires that VW puts on this thing are the worst excuse for an all weather tire I have ever seen....

Which wheels and tires were on your Touareg?


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## watson007 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

I would be interested in what tires you have on the vehicle.
I'ave been through a winter on the 18" Contis and found them to be acceptable in the snow.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

Such a long involved post without stating which bad tires VW put on his car. Or even how many miles may be on your existing tires.








I had no problem with the standard 18" Continentals 4x4 Contacts last year on my V8. When the snow threatens, I will be smart enough to take the 20" summer tires off the V10 and put on the 18" Continentals 4x4 Contacts again. 
Use some common sense. The car is excellent in the snow with the right tires with enough tread.


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (leebo)*

Sorry guys, should have been more specific. The stock 18" wheels with the tires VW puts on them. Not the 19's with summer tires. I realize that the tires aren't "snow" tires, but they should at least function in wet snow. I have never had to buy winter tires for a new car with AWD and all weather tires.
I have about 8,500 miles on the tires.


_Modified by skdmarx at 7:14 PM 10-20-2004_


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## Jason H (Dec 6, 1999)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

Do you have the 19" wheels? If so they are clearly represented from VW as _summer_ only performance tires. They will absolutely SUCK in snow, they are meant to please the large number of drivers who want a sports handling SUV and live in temperate climates. They absolutely require a changeout to dedicated snow tire or at least good M&S rated all-seasons.
If you have the 18", then I'm not sure what your issue is, perhaps you have had trouble with the alignment issue and your tires are prematurely worn. That would be VW's fault. Otherwise it's not the car, unless it's just YOUR car (every German brand has a few "Kluas was at the bier garten too late last night", or whatever they call it in Slovakia, cars). VW has let loose groups of reporters on crazy off-road tours on cars with stock tires. If it was so helpless there would be a lot of job openings at the car rags if you know what I mean. Also groups of Rocky Mountain Vortexers have taken their Tregs on some damn adventurous off-road pass driving, and I believe it was Aircooled just took his up a pass IN the snow with no problems (couple hairy moments but no traction issues). Now I find it hard to believe that with all this proven capability you can't back out of a flat driveway while Toyotra minivans pass you mockingly. It almost certainly sounds like driver error oir a specific problem with your Treg. That is NOT a flame, that's really just a rational conclusion.
Anyway, I am taking my '04 V8 with Air-susp and RDL, and stock conti's up to the snow this weekend, I'll let you know if I get stuck. And if I do, I'd be happy (well, not at that moment) to corroborate your opinion. Not that hordes of other snow belt Treggers won't beat me to testing it within the hour anyway...


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

Tires, definately.
I went throug last winter with my V6 running the 17" Dunlops with no problem. My driveway is at least a 15% grade up from the street to my garage, and I could easily back up the drive and into the garage with 6-8 inches of wet snow on the drive.
(Ch0p can attest to the steepness of my driveway - he commented on it when he was over a few weeks ago.)


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## naoh321 (Sep 29, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

My sister has a house in South Lake Tahoe; I spent the night there yesterday. My V6 Treg performed flawlessly in the snow, with the stock tires and without air suspension. There was about 7 inches of snow on the ground. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I cannot understand your dilemma...


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## HOTGLXVR (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (Jason H)*

the 18" conti's vw is using has been know to were out 15-20k and is considered more of a sport touring tire not a winter tire the tire that i suggest to my customers is the pirelli zero in the 255/55/18 this tire should have no problem in the snow and is cheeper then the conti


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

While I think this is a troll (dead giveaway is the $30k trade-in, as others have gotten much more in trade - even troll boy with the new X5), the question is clearly tires. Do you have M&S tires or performance tires on the car? The Conti M&S tires should have had zero problem with that snow, unless your driveway is on a 45 degree grade. I don't buy it. I vote that this is a troll.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (Archimedes)*

Actually he is a Touareg owner based on his prior posts. Not sure why he had such issues with the snow unless his tires are severely worn. Maybe he has an alignment problem that has worn his tires and he hasn't inspected them recently. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...87113


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (spockcat)*

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I believe he actually owns a Touareg, but I think he's a disgruntled owner who is simply ripping the Treg to scare off other people. Either that or he's got either worn or performance tires on his Treg, in which case he's a dope to blame the Treg for the problem.
A Touareg with Conti 4x4 M+S tires will have no problem with 8 inches of snow, unless by chance there is a very steep grade and/or his driveway was iced underneath the snow. Given he claims he got out it in a 2 wheel drive pickup, I don't buy his story. Still say he is trolling.


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## cybulman (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (spockcat)*

I would not doubt his sincerity, although most owners are pissed off about the recent discounts and offers devaluing their trucks.
I think he just got in too deep in snow/slush, with his first few start off attempts and then no amount of "Low" or 1st gear start offs, would do the job.

He should have tractioned with leafy branches, graveletc... or the plastic traction tool one sees in Herringtons catalogs etc...if you live in Tahoe you must own one.
Spock and others who have driven in snow please do a refresher (no refer old threads pullease!) and tell us how to use the diff locks etc.. in snow for best results.
Tires could have been bald too!
Cy


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## bwallet (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (Archimedes)*

Seems to me that if he really wants to sell his Touareg, he should be encouraging people to buy one instead of playing it down so as to increase the price. *shrugs* I, for one, am very happy with my Touareg. Haven't taken it in the snow yet, but I'm looking forward to the opportunity.


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (cybulman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cybulman* »_I think he just got in too deep in snow/slush, with his first few start off attempts and then no amount of "Low" or 1st gear start offs, would do the job.

He should have tractioned with leafy branches, graveletc... or the plastic traction tool one sees in Herringtons catalogs etc...if you live in Tahoe you must own one.
Cy



Well I've been trekking around Tahoe every winter for the last ten years in my 94 Land Cruiser with M+S tires and I've been through some pretty hellacious snowstorms, including 20+ inches of fresh snow, and never even had to use 4 wheel low. If the Treg can't handle 8 inches of snow without building up traction with leaves, that's ridiculous.
I'll be skiing up there in about 6 weeks and if our Treg can't handle everything Tahoe weather throws at us (with M&S tires), it will be sold that week.


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## trollhole (Nov 6, 2003)

I have had problems with my T and still do but having traction problems even with my bald Conti's in deep mud has not been a problem. That is one thing the T is great at and that is getting you out of a bad situation.


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (bwallet)*

It is amazing how people can be when faceless on a website forum. Attacking people to defend a car. I never said anything negative about anyone on this forum, yet replies to my post have called me a troll, a dope, and that I am making up a story.
I have lived in Tahoe for 15 years and NEVER had to put "leafy branches, gravel, etc. or the plastic traction tool one sees in Herringtons catalogs etc...if you live in Tahoe you must own one." to get out of 6-8 inches of snow. NEVER needed anything like that, EVER. I would expect that if I had a 2 wheel drive car or one without winter rated tires, but not this car. It has less than 9,000 miles on it, if the tires are bad with that little miles, then the tires suck. My 2003 Passat handled winter fine, never a problem. Every Subaru, Toyota and Nissan never needed any more assistance than putting it in 4WD and going.
As I felt (for some reason) that I needed to prove my situtation, here are photos of the driveway and video of the car not able to get out of it. Understand that this is 4 hours later and the storm has almost stopped.
http://homepage.mac.com/toutolmin/Touareg/
I don't expect anyone that may buy my car to look at these forums, I would feel guilty selling it to someone actually. I posted this information for potential buyers to be aware of some of the POSSIBLE problems. I just don't understand why people feel they need to attack a poster to defend a car. If you are happy with your Touareg, good for you. Don't call me names or accuse me of making up stories just to make yourself feel better about your car.
To answer the "Troll" guy about the $30k offers. (I posted this a week or so back too) A toyota dealership has looked into taking my car as a trade in. They don't feel they can sell the car on their lot here because of the lack of VW's in this area, etc. and don't want to get stuck with a $50k car that they can't sell. So they called 5 VW dealerships, asking what they would- 1. buy the car from them for if they were to take it as a trade in from me, and 2. what they would give me for a trade in If I were to go there and trade it in for a new Touareg or another VW. The HIGHEST dealer quoted $30k to buy it from the Toyota dealer, and $35k if I went there to trade it in for a new VW. I called those same dealers and got the same Trade in quote. The dealer I bought it from told me the same as well.
I agree with this post 100%, which is really my point in all of this anyway:
"Well I've been trekking around Tahoe every winter for the last ten years in my 94 Land Cruiser with M+S tires and I've been through some pretty hellacious snowstorms, including 20+ inches of fresh snow, and never even had to use 4 wheel low. If the Treg can't handle 8 inches of snow without building up traction with leaves, that's ridiculous."
Flame away. As far as most of you are concerned, I am just lying about all this to get you guys to not like me. Really, I have a lot better things to do than worry about my cars.


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## eggyacid (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

Gotta be the tires.
my friend's BMW X5 got stuck in 2 inches of snow last year all beacuse of his tires.... 
If you have 19's, you're probably using summer tire which offers no traction at all in winter.
Get all season tires or winter tires if you live in Tahoe.


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## eggyacid (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (eggyacid)*

By the way..
I have 24K miles on my car and I won't trade it for any other car..
No problem what so ever... best car on the block.
Jeff


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## cybulman (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in snow....and anger!!! (skdmarx)*

skdmarx - I think your experience has seriously enraged you and you are overreacting due to your financial predicament on the truck...take a chill pill man! I tried to defend you.
Archimedes...your post was pompous. Lotsa bulk density and no specifc gravity! Not everyone can just sell their new truck for whatever loss they get.
'Nough said...now I will deal with the adults on this forum!








Cy 


_Modified by cybulman at 9:08 PM 10-20-2004_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

Ok, I've watched the video and seen the photos. Was there perhaps ice under the snow? Or did the driving back and forth compact the snow into an icy condition? The fact that the car slides sideways indicates a complete loss of traction. I would have liked to see if you could have gotten up going forward.


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## redealmaker (Sep 22, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

I think this guy is a troll. Look at his name and the name of the color of his Treg. They did not have that color when I bought mine.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (redealmaker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redealmaker* »_I think this guy is a troll. Look at his name and the name of the color of his Treg. They did not have that color when I bought mine.









Score one for you. I didn't even notice he says he has silverstone grey. The color of the car in his photo appears to be reed green (or perhaps offroad grey). What's up with that skdmarx?


_Modified by spockcat at 4:13 PM 10-20-2004_


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (redealmaker)*

Ok, now I am a troll because I posted the color of my car wrong. That color was the color of my 03 Passat which I had when I got my Touareg. Sorry, my Touareg is "Offroad Gray". 
Enough with all you guys stroking each other to feel good about your investments. Most of you can't just reply with legitimate answers or comments, you have to blame me for all my problems. Yes, redealmaker, "Score one for you". Good job "spockcat", nit-picking to find things to accuse me of. I won't make fun of your name, it is a waste of time. Don't like my name, I don't care. If my name had anything to do with how I drive then maybe your childish attack would have some reasoning, but really you are just looking for ways to discredit what I am saying. I really expected more from "spockcat" after reading all his other grown up posts of the last year that I have read this forum. I was so blind to the snob mentality here, because I was really hoping I was getting a good car, I only read and believed the positive posts. Now I can't even post my feeling about the car without getting attacked.
Ultimately, this post wasn't meant for any of you haters anyway, it was for people thinking about getting a Touareg. And while I don't expect my post to stop someone from getting one, at least they will see what some of us are experiencing. If nothing else, they will learn right away not to post anything here, except praise for their Touareg, otherwise they will get bashed, called names and picked apart, rather than just getting feedback or maybe some answers or advice. This is really wasting my day. I think I am over it.


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## spinnetti (Feb 18, 2000)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (Jason H)*

Off topic, but you have basically the same cars as me!
A4 1.8TQMSP
and the T-Reg of course
BTW, if I had 6" of snow in my Audi, I'd have the car buried 4" of it!
I sure hope when the snow hits the reg will not have problems - I'd be pissed too. (my last B5 A4 wasn't that great in any snow even awd, but my 8E version is MUCH better - better software)


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## trollhole (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (spockcat)*

Who cares who's car it is. Point is he has video of it not being able to get out of his driveway. Pretty compelling evidence if you ask me. But I really think it is the tires it's just got to be. Mine had 9k on them when I drove on Solid Ice and I never had a problem going up hills down hills around hills etc. It's the tires. Has he said what kind he had and howmany miles he had on them?








I really think even with bad tires he should be able to get out of his driveway. Maybe there is a problem with the AWD system that sure seems to be a lot of wheel spin.


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## spikeital (May 21, 2001)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

Skdmarx,
Just curious which OEM 18's tires you had on the car? You never stated it. I think VW offers 2 or 3 different OEM tires for that size. 
Thxs,
Spikeital


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

Nobody is ripping you for disliking the Treg, it's simply the situation that you describe makes zero sense, and your insinuation that based on your problem this morning means there is a design flaw in the Treg and that it can't handle snow is ridiculous.
I've read all over the web from people who have taken their Tregs through snow with no problem. Most likely either your tires are worn or their was ice underneath. There is no reason that a Treg with Conti M+S tires in good shape would have any problem with snow.
And concerning the poster who thought I was being pompous about saying I'd dump my Treg, I wasn't being pompous about my wealth. I was simply stating that I wouldn't own an SUV that can't handle snow, even if I had to dump the car and get something cheaper to replace it. I'm sure most Treg owners in snowbelt areas would feel the same way. Why would anyone choose to own a Treg if it was unusable in the snow?


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## trollhole (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (trollhole)*

The more and more I see that video it tells me something is up with those tires.


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## urbantreg (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (redealmaker)*

Excuse my ignorance, but as a newcomer to this forum.....What is a "Troll"?


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## vwincident (Jul 3, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (trollhole)*

This has been some great afternoon entertainment.








To me the video shows that the front tires are not spinning with the back tire, _almost_ like it's in two wheel drive or something. ESP on or off? 
_Modified by vwincident at 6:10 PM 10-20-2004_


_Modified by vwincident at 6:10 PM 10-20-2004_


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## Vega (Jul 28, 2004)

Maybe he has like 70 psi in them..


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skdmarx* »_
Enough with all you guys stroking each other to feel good about your investments. Most of you can't just reply with legitimate answers or comments, you have to blame me for all my problems. 

Nobody is flaming you for your problems. You posted a message addressed directly to 'anyone considering a Touareg' about your 'nightmare', then you proceeded to insinuate that a Touareg can't handle small amounts of snow that even a lowly Minivan could. You knew people on this board would take offense to that, because it's ridiculous. You even alluded to this in your post when you indicated that you expected to be flamed.
Perhaps if you had simply posted 'I got stuck in my driveway this morning in my Treg in 8 inches of snow...can anybody help me figure out why?" you would have gotten a lot of helpful feedback.
That said, you still haven't told us specifically what brand and type of tires you have on your Treg and/or how worn they are at the moment. Without helpful information like that, it's difficult for anyone on the board to help you.


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## vwincident (Jul 3, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (urbantreg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *urbantreg* »_Excuse my ignorance, but as a newcomer to this forum.....What is a "Troll"?

http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm#WIAT


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (urbantreg)*

I was always under the impression that a troll was someone who lingered around a forum but never posted anything. Apparently, here it means someone that posts a complaint about their car.
The reason I havn't posted much on here, is for exactly this reason. I gave my experience and now I am being attacked, called names, whatever you want to call it. I just got to the point where I needed to post here so people that care about it could read it and possibly learn from it.
The tires are the Continental M+S. They have around 9,000 miles on them. I have had the car since 4/27/2004. If the tires are already bad, is that something I should have expected in 9,000 miles? Is it my fault? If they are bad because of an alignment issue, is that my fault, or something the VW did in their design flaws? Who pays for new tires? Me or VW?
This issue was just one of MANY issues I have with this car. I just vented this one because it happened this morning, and the first time the tires had touched snow. I don't think I should have been expected to need new tires 5 months after I drove it off the lot.
The video was shot 4 hours after my first experience, so snow changed a little bit. But either way, I should have been able to get out of the driveway. All 4 tires spun at one point or another. The actually continued to spin (in low range) until I put my foot on the brake, apperently computer controlled to try to gain traction.
If it is the tires, then it is the tires. I guess I now need to go buy new tires in order to continuee driving my car this winter. Now if there was just a fix for all the other problems, I wouldn't have anything to complain about.
Binding when entering a drive way
Tire pressure warning every few days that I have a flat tire. Ignore it and it goes away eventually.
Navigation turns on and off randomly. Switches screens randomly. Switches of CD to Nav screen randomly.
Beeping and error lights regarding lights being on, etc. randomly.
Key fob not working as expected some times, even after TSB.
Car sits 3 inches higher on right side most of the time. Lowering it and raising it back to normal fixes this sometimes.
Rear sunshade pulled out of window completely when putting it up.
Heater never gets really warm.
Plus the TSB's that were done to fix some things like the transmission roughness. The car still tries to "lurch" forward at intersections unless your foot is on the brake hard.
Trailer brake TSB which made my brake controller stop giving wierd spinning LED messages, but still says the trailer is not connected most of the time I am towing with it, although the trailer brakes do work as expected.
Just a lot of things to have wrong for $51k.


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## redneck (Feb 29, 2004)

Did you just have your driveway sealed? I had trouble with a glaze of ice on the driveway after it was sealed. I finally drove through the yard with no troubles.
The poor tade in value is disappointing


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## urbantreg (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (vwincident)*

Thanks for the definition of Trolls...
I will take note of my OEM Dunlop Grandtreks and their "snowability"....my inlaws live right outside of Yosemite National Park and we get snow there at 3500 feet elevation.


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## Jason H (Dec 6, 1999)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

You start off a thread basically listing "a litany of complaints" to quote a popular statement from the campaign trail, finaly get to the matter at hand, but in a condescending way, on what is basically an enthusiasts forum, and you finish-up with basically a dare for people to flame you. And then what? You actually feign surprise and shock over the attudes you get. Sheesh. Sounds like someone may have manipulation issues, even if they have actual car issues.
Let me ask you plainly, are you claiming that the design of the AWD system on the Touareg is faulty, and incapable of any movement in harsh conditions? Or are you willing to take the advice that with proper tires, at proper inflation for conditions, the car can get out of anything? I think the level-headed consensus is that it IS your tires. I know they have just 9k miles on them, but they are either over inflated, or prematurely worn. VW does not MAKE the tires on the car, and several other brands probably use the same exact OEM tire, so it would hardly be a VW problem. If an alignment issue caused the premature wear on the tires VW will replace them for you, someone just posted the other day about getting theirs replaced at 11k. That is the simple and probably FREE solution for you. But all your other issues are keeping you from seeing it that way, and you would rather spend all day throwing tirades back and forth.
Just for you conspiracy theorists out there, if he intentionally turned off ESP to make the car look incapable for this thread, would it behave as shown in his video?


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skdmarx* »_
The tires are the Continental M+S. They have around 9,000 miles on them. I have had the car since 4/27/2004. If the tires are already bad, is that something I should have expected in 9,000 miles? 


No way, if it turns out to be tires you should be compensated by VW.
Have you tried to turn around and go up forward? I'm wondering if the lack of weight over the rear is part of the reason you're losing traction backing uphill.


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## trollhole (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

If I were in your shoes I don't know what I would do. I never expected my conti to be any good in the snow.

Even tirerack.com gave the snow performance of these tires a 4.7 which is really bad. 
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...ntact

And I think this review of a Treg owner sums it all up about these tires.
2004 Volkswagen Touareg V8 

Miles driven on tires: 
16,000 Reviewer's Overall Ratings: 
6.11

Location: Bondville, VT

Driving Condition:
Mostly On Road 
Driving Style: Spirited


As a winter tire, these are probably the worst I have ever experienced. On dry roads at high speed they were excellent; good handling and low noise. These tires had to be replaced at 16,000 miles and fortunately VW did so under warranty. -- Review Submitted 2004-08-18

or this guy
2004 Volkswagen Touareg V8 

Miles driven on tires: 
13,000 Reviewer's Overall Ratings: 
8.56

Location: Queensbury, NY

Driving Condition:
On Road/Off Road 
Driving Style: Average


Do not mistake this for a snow tire. It did not handle 2-3 inches of wet snow at all. It was fabulous all summer and fall. -- Review Submitted 2004-04-06

So I think you know where the fault lies. It's the tires plain and simple. I think if you were to show the video to VW maybe they would be willing to help you out. I said maybe. If not buy youself some good Michelins and be done with it like I did.
As far as your other problems I'm sorry. Some Tregs just have a bad history not working right. Though some are not. Sounds like you have one that is like mine. Sorry.


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## Jason H (Dec 6, 1999)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

Ok, here, this is an attempt to be purely helpful, this is a link to the thread about getting VW to pick up the dime on replacing tires:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1642083
Also, since there are at least 3 tires used for OEM fitments (depending on what supplier has tires at the time it's built) you may want to ask for them to replace it with one of the other brands. I think some come with Dunlop's which are probably much better. If you just want to get a really good tire and don't care about getting VW to pick it up I think these would work great:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...1=yes
You would probably be able to lead the plows over Donner Summit with these on. YTou could always keep the Conti's as summer tires and just have them mounted back and forth on the rims. I did this with Summer/Winter tires in Oregon for four years.
It's not the Treg, it's just the shoes. Imagine MJ playing basketball in tap shoes, does that make him incapble of greatness? No, he just needs those Air Jordans.


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (Archimedes)*

"Have you tried to turn around and go up forward? I'm wondering if the lack of weight over the rear is part of the reason you're losing traction backing uphill."
Unfortunately, I could not turn around in the driveway, not without shoveling the whole driveway first.
At this point it doesn't matter anymore ,the snow is melting away now and I should be able to get out of the driveway.
I admit that it is probably the tires, which I said in the beginning. They are poor M+S tread, and the fact that they may be prematurely worn adds to the problem. The tires have always been at the proper inflation, if they weren't the computer would have said so. Instead it has only ever said that the rear right one is flat. I check my tire pressure occassionally, every time it tells me my tires are flat actually.
I understand that VW doesn't make the tires, but the alignment issue that VW is aware of most likely wore the tires improperly, so it is another thing on my list of problems with the car. 
What is the point of this forum if no one wants to hear bad experiences? If it is just a place to make yourself feel good about your car, that is pretty silly. Maybe I should have posted this in the "OFFICIAL VWOA TOUAREG FEEDBACK FORUM" instead of in the general Touareg forum. My bad there.
Ultimately, I guess I believed that ANYONE here in my position would be pretty upset if they were stuck in the driveway with their Touareg. I didn't dare anyone to flame me, I just assumed people would, based on the history of what I have seen on this forum. I was willing to take the chance so others may get both sides of the equation when considering a Touareg.
Based on the reviews from Tireracks website, posted by trollhole, I would agree with them and assume it is poor tires to begin with. And I would add that because the car is misaligned (probably something to do with the fact that the car sits 3 inches higher on one side most of the time) my tires are now improperly worn.
In the future I will probably keep my experience to myself and let others take a beating here for speaking up.
Having all these problems and getting them looked at when the closest dealership is over an hour drive, makes it difficult to stay happy with the car. I guess I expected a lot for $50k, and didn't think I would have to go to the dealer to fix so many things. It will be really tough to keep this for the full 4 years of the lease, especially considering all the problems I have had with it in the first 6 months. If I am only getting $30-35k quotes now, what will it be worth in a year. That is probably the most dissapointing thing about this whole experience. I believed the car would hold it's value better than this.


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (Jason H)*

Jason H, thanks for the links and recommendations on tires.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skdmarx* »_And I would add that because the car is misaligned (probably something to do with the fact that the car sits 3 inches higher on one side most of the time) my tires are now improperly worn.

If your car sits 3" higher on one side than the other, you shouldn't even be driving it because you must have a broken air suspension system. 
As for resale, I only know what I got for my V8 when I traded in for a V10. $38k in July on a V8 with PPS and 17,500 miles. Perhaps the dealers you are talking to sense that you really want to get out of the car so bad that they are taking advantage of you. Could be your area has a weak market. Maybe the hefty discounts on the new ones are hurting you too.


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## Jason H (Dec 6, 1999)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skdmarx* »_thanks for the links and recommendations on tires.

Hey man, no problem. Sorry the pot had to simmer down a bit before you started to get useful feedback. Too bad there are genuine trolls out there, no one want's to get burned by one, so you'll get a lot of flak at the beginning, for good or bad. I think all of us can empathise, and would be just as *issed in your situation. Don't be afreaid to post problems, that's how the genuine ones get solved. Best of luck.


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## spikeital (May 21, 2001)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (urbantreg)*

The Grandtreks where awesome in the snow last year. I drove up to Vermont from CT without any problems at all last year .


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## kbear (Mar 9, 1999)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

I know you said you tried everything.
Did you turn the ESP off?
The ESP on does not allow you to get traction when you start off with no traction, based on the ASR, depowering the engine whenever the wheels are slipping. The ESP comes on every time you start the Vehicle. The reason the button is there is to turn it off to allow you to get traction when you are stuck in deep snow (or if you want to drag race someone







) If you want to verify this look it up in your owners manual.
Good luck to you!
edit for sp


_Modified by kbear at 7:44 PM 10-20-2004_


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## BLK9GEN (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (spikeital)*

Sorry to hear about your problems w/ your Touareg. My co-worker just bought a fully loaded 2005 V6 Touareg and he loves it so far. I have to say, they are beautiful vehicles (the interior is AMAZING). Unfortunately it seems that dependability, reliability and dealer service are still not words commonly associated with VW.
I considered the Touareg as replacement for my 2002 Passat, but realized that *FOR ME*, reliability and quality of service is more important than a super-nice interior and superior off-road prowess. I'm now leaning towards the Infiniti FX35. 







Here's to hoping that you can resolve your issues w/ your Touareg or at the very least find a dealer that will offer you more than the absurd amount of $30k. 


_Modified by jwaters943 at 12:33 AM 10-21-2004_


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## See5 (Nov 4, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (vwincident)*

Tires, just tires.


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## GreyMouser (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

The video is proof; but I'm really surprised. I have the stock Dunlops and have spent a ton of time on snowy Cascade mountain roads last year (many remote and unplowed) and have not had any issues at all.
The one thing that I will say is that there was a video and review floating around from Sweden with a shot of the Touareg having difficulty climbing up a snow-covered hill:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1169369
Translation is mid-way in the thread. It was surprising how badly that Touareg did; perhaps the fault solely rests on the Contis since we've found the T-reg to be quite excellent in snow.


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## watson007 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

Yep. It's the tires.
Many have noted that the Contis have had severe premature wear. Sometimes due to an alignment or stepper motor problem (or both).
There is NO way you should be having that kind of problem getting through that snow.


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## watson007 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skdmarx* »_
Enough with all you guys stroking each other to feel good about your investments. Most of you can't just reply with legitimate answers or comments, you have to blame me for all my problems. 

You can never tell a parent their kid is ugly and expect a kiss for it.


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## Phagus (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

based on your earlier post:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...87113
you've been towing a heavy trailer with your "little VW".
i wonder how the tires of people who tow a lot are holding up? and, in addition, you have the binding, and possibly, bad alignment... most possibly your tires are bold. call your dealer and the tires will be replaced under warranty.
but the bottom line is how VW could have released from the factory so many $50K+ trucks with bad alignment in the first place?










_Modified by ****us at 10:03 PM 10-20-2004_


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (****us)*

Tires certainly.
But it points out another unfortunate fact. If you do not have a competent VW service department close to you that you can count on, you are taking a real gamble. I have had a great experience, as have many of us. But skdmarx has obviously had a tough time with his TReg, and has not had a competent dealer to rely on. As is obvious from this forum, there are a number of "bad eggs" that only get resolved by an attentive and knowledgable service.
Sorry to hear of your troubles skdmarx, but I think your current snow problem is an unfortunate occurance that shouldn't neccesarilly sway other potential buyers from considering the Touareg.


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## TregOH (Jul 7, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

I didn't see this defined -- sorry if I missed it. One who hangs around a forum but doesn't post is a lurker not a troll. A troll is a post made to antagonize and elicit a response. Also used to describe one who makes such posts.


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## garibaldo (Jul 10, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (****us)*

Great point ****us.
Sorry to steer off topic but was is the desired tire pressure range on the stock 18" Continental M+S? On the tire it says max psi of 51 but I know it's not wise to be at the very max. 
I hate to end up in his "shoes".


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## cin (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

i wont get into the problems with my treg...the list is long and frustrating...i just want to say
that i feel your pain...good luck


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## EuroStyle (Jun 24, 2000)

Damn you guys are a tough crowd...the guy had an issue, and really his first post was very level headed and calm. Tires can make a huge difference...but it took you alll 2 pages to tell him that. And to others talking about "being burned by a troll"...did you try to buy something from this guy? How could he "burn" you? Some of you need to relax..this is supposed to be a community where you can post questions about your car, look for solutions and show off some cool mods....not get attacked for telling your story.....









Jason, sorry you had a bad time in the snow, but don't let this scare you off VW's or Vortex, it can be a very usefull place for a VW owner....
Sean
And my car is great in the snow, and I am tucking 17's...


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## Phagus (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (EuroStyle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroStyle* »_And my car is great in the snow, and I am tucking 17's...

















i bet there was a pickup outside of the ^ shot that dragged you out of that snow


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## Jason H (Dec 6, 1999)

*Re: (EuroStyle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroStyle* »_And to others talking about "being burned by a troll"...did you try to buy something from this guy? How could he "burn" you? Some of you need to relax..


_Quote, originally posted by *M-W.com* »_Context:
Pronunciation: 'kän-"tekst
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, weaving together of words, from Latin contextus connection of words, coherence, from contexere to weave together, from com- + texere to weave 
1 : the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning
2 : the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs :


Just fyi, I think I was the only person who mentioned getting "burned by a troll", and taken in context it is obviously NOT refering to the original poster. I was telling him it is too bad that people who are mad and post about their problems (like him) get jumped on out of the fear of (other) trolls on the forums, and that just as you pointed out the best answers didn't come until page 2 when the fire died down. Internet forums just aren't the same as real conversations the trolling, antagonism, and signal to noise ratio are just all things that gets peoples guard up, for better or worse.


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## Eric D (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (EuroStyle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroStyle* »_And my car is great in the snow, and I am tucking 17's...
















 
This reminds me of this old Mk2 Golf Syncro, French mag ad.


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## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

What also makes zero sense is that you state having experience in snow driving and you blame a 4x4 with low gears and two locking difs for not having traction in the snow conditions you describe?
Instead of considering loosing thousands of $ try deactivating your ESP next time and definitely buy a set of 255x60x17 Pirelli Scorpion Zero tires and matching wheels.. Got those on mine(standard Touareg equip.) and enjoy snowy slopes...
Think....


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## shredjim (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

Hey skdmarx,
I agree with most of what the regulars on this forum say about tires probably being your problem, etc. but I have a basic question - you were attempting to get from your driveway onto the road that may or may not have been plowed, BUT OUT of your driveway right ? From your video it appears to me that you did not give your rig huge gas on the dry pavement section to power it up, gain your momentum and punch through the berm and get onto the road. It looks like you were a bit too timid on your approach. Like you - as a very long time driver in the snow, I sometimes use any available chunk of dry pavement for hard acceleration - ie hit the gas hard to gain the momentum that carries you though packed snow to gain access to the place you know your rig will have traction.
Also, those of us who have good dealer relationships are sorry its been an issue for you. My repair dealer is not the dealer I bought the car from but that will be covered in a seperate post later. My 8,600 mile used V8 PPS Treg had huge electrical issues that seem to be resolved by a good dealer and VW. VW bought me a new battery and several things they could have stiffed me on because the machines said they were performing according to spec - but it seems to me they want to make me a satisfied VW customer. I really like my Treg. I have other posts on this forum that highlight positive experiences in the short time I have owned it


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## treg4574 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (jinxegg)*

Gosh Darn. My only complaint on the original poster is this.... It took forever to find out the tires were conti's and we still don't know how much tread is left. Geez. How can we help out if we don't have the info!
As far as the problem.... The dealer is a looooooong way away. Drop off the darn treg and let them keep it for how ever long it takes to fix all the problems. If they need to keep it for two weeks... let them. Just be sure to talk to the service manager and politely inform him that it is a long drive for you and that you do not want the darn thing back until everything is fixed. Tell them to let their treg technician drive it to and from work everyday for the next couple of weeks. Sure you might get 500 extra miles put on it. But if they fix everything... then isn't it worth it.
If your tires are bald, you should get a new set under warranty. It is time for your treg to go back to the dealer and to get fixed!
And.... just how worn are your tires???


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: (Jason H)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jason H* »_... and that just as you pointed out the best answers didn't come until page 2 ....


Umm, are we reading the same thread? The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th posts directly ask about his tires, as do many other of the posts on the first page.


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## BajaBeetle (Aug 9, 2002)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (****us)*

Disclaimer: This post is not intended to flame but to extract the necessary information to form an opinion based on the information given.
From his previous post, he indicates that he towed his 5900 lb trailer with the WD (weight distribution) bars set "light" which could explain his part time sagging suspension if he has exceeded the recommended maximum tongue weight.
We still don't know what pressure he is running in his tires. Seeing that he tows with it, I would guess that he has the rears up to maximum (or more) which explains part of his traction issue.
Towing 65-70 mph up hill will certainly accelerate tire wear as well.
More interesting would be to see a video of another vehicle getting out of the same driveway, that vehicle's speed, tires, pressures, etc...


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## fray (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (Archimedes)*

Long way from snow here in north Texas but...My wife and I have put 25K miles on our V6 with 17's wheels and metal spring suspension over the past 14 months, many off those off-road with a dirt back loaded up on a Moto Jack Rack. Again, i'm not talking snow but what this truck can do in the mud, in sand washes, rocks etc amazes me. I have intentionally taken the gnarliest routes just to "test" it and I've yet to get it stuck. We had the OEM Grandtreks which have since been replaced with Scorpion Zero's; Both performed well. I'm no expert but something must be wrong with the AWD system. If the diffs were locked, and I assume a 51K T-reg has the rear lock, even with worn tires wouldn't it just claw it's way out? That capabilities of the T-reg are over and above a relatively piddly 6" of snow. Man it just doens't seem right from my off road experience.


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## fray (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (fray)*

I just looked at the video again and i don't see the left front wheel spinning in unison with the left rear. wouldn't this be the case if the center diff was locked and and the system was function properly? That looks like a piece of cake, something, I'll say again is up with the AWD.


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## cctdi (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

Your experience with the Reg is horrifying me. I would have to drive my v10 on the snow road in order to believe what you had said. With almost 6 k miles in the odometer I haven't have a bad thing to say about my car. The only thing annoys me is to fold down the back seat. It would upset me to the point right the way, if ....... Then again, I got stuck on Philadelphia street road right infront of a city bus that tried to make the turn toward me. That was the winter of 98, and I was driving a 98 Landcruiser on Adam and Whitaker Aves.










_Modified by cctdi at 12:00 AM 10-22-2004_


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## vwincident (Jul 3, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (cctdi)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1222807 
Driving in the snow tips....


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## Moneypenny (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (fray)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fray* »_I just looked at the video again and i don't see the left front wheel spinning in unison with the left rear. wouldn't this be the case if the center diff was locked and and the system was function properly? That looks like a piece of cake, something, I'll say again is up with the AWD. 

Exactly. Amidst all the immature ranting about the legitimacy of Skidmarx's posts, all I could think about was the possibility that his unfortunate, problem-ridden Touareg might have a malfunctioning AWD/ESP/ABS system (or one of those three). In my A4 Quattro, I can drive uphill in deep snow with my summer tires on. Not as comfortably as my winter shoes, but it can still be done. Skidmarx's problems indicate an issue more involved that simply tires. With the advanced traction systems of the Treg, plus its not-insignificant weight, he should have EASILY gotten out of that driveway on the tires that he has.
Skidmarx, ignore all the chaff that's been part of this thread and get your ride to a competent dealer for an analysis of the functionality of your assorted traction systems. Bring a laptop with the video of your sliding to show the service-writer and the tech.
To all you yay-hoos who jumped on Skidmarx as being illegitimate or stupid, I quote Sgt. Hulka from the great film 'Stripes': "Lighten up, Francis!"


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## che9194 (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

It sounds like you had the same problem as my Mom a few years ago. She thought she was stuck in 2 inches of snow, and then realized that she left on the emergency brake.

_Modified by che9194 at 5:43 PM 10-21-2004_


_Modified by che9194 at 5:44 PM 10-21-2004_


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (che9194)*

No, my emergency brake was not on. Thanks for the tip though.(?)
We towed the trailer 1 time back when we got the car about 100 miles round trip and the tongue weight of the trailer is 510 lbs.
Tire pressure is all at recommended specs, not high or low by any means.
I did not lock the differential, because there should have been NO reason to do so, the snow was not that bad at all. My truck got out of the same snow, next driveway over, in 2 wheel drive. If I was buried in snow somewhere I would expect to lock the diff, but should not have had to there.
I talked to VW service and they immediately said that the tires will be replaced because VW knows that the alignment is bad and will fix. It was definitely the tires. The reason I blame VW is because, along with all the other problems I have with the car, if the alignment wasn't messed up due to their problem, I would have bald tires in 9,000 miles.
If I bought a car, not an SUV designed for offroad use, I would understand needing to put another $400-600 into winter tires, I bought winter tires for my Subaru WRX STi, because it needed them, BUT no chance should I expect to pay for tires in order to drive a $50k VW SUV around on snowy streets. The tires that came on the Touareg are good summer tires and probably decent snow tires, but since they went bald in 5 months, before the snow even hit the ground, I was never able to test them to give an opinion.
Thanks to those of you who were able to just answer or comment on my post without being immature name callers, etc. it is appreciated.
And SKDMARX was the license plate on my 97 Porsche C4S, then transfered to my Subaru WRX STi, which seemed appropriate for those two cars. The screen name just stuck with me.


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## Tahoe2Reg (Nov 21, 2003)

I also live near Lake Tahoe - 15 miles north of the lake in Truckee, at 6500 ft. At my house the storm started as light rain then 16 inches of wet snow. So there was a thin layer of ice under the snow. My driveway slopes slightly upward towards the street and friends often have trouble getting out after storms like this without chaining up. Since my snow blower was on empty, I had to take the Touareg out to pick up gas. It made it out fine the first try. I have air suspension and did raise it to the highest level to try to clear the snow. No problems, not even the slighest bit of spin or sliding around. Wheels are 18" with Conti tires and 14000 miles.
I've had the car since last November and never once had a problem with any of the 1-2 ft storms in the Tahoe region.


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## ufda (Aug 24, 2004)

As a Colorado resident, I see many people who move here from elsewhere (Calif. and Texas) have a big problem with snow. They think 4X4 WILL GET THEM ANYWHERE. Wrong. The concept of monmentum, don't slow down prior to a hill (like Georgetown Hill on I-70) spinning wheels only make ice, etc., etc. I think from your post you are one of them. Low range only makes it worse because it puts more power to the wheels. Trick, engage your air-conditioning pulling down your horse-power and ease out of the snow. Your T-reg is the most capable snow vechile around. Another thing you can do is go to Steamboat and take a snow driver class and learn how to drive in the snow.. I think you need it.


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## pinewood (Oct 22, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

The poster is correct about trade in value. I, too, am very dissastisfied with the service on my Touareg. The closest dealer to the Tahoe area is Lithia in Reno and they are awful. After Lithia in Reno, I have to drive more than two hours to the next VW dealer. My experience is so bad that I attempted to trade in my Touareg on a Lexus. 
The actual trade in value of my loaded V8 with everything on it was about $30,000. This vehicle was just over $50,000 new and currently has 23,000 miles.


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: (ufda)*

Glad to hear that you know how to drive in the snow, since you live in Colorado. Us Californian's obviously don't, or at least I don't according to you. Whatever. I have never had a problem in the snow, with ANY vehicle I have ever owned. I don't believe 4X4 WILL GET ME ANYWHERE, but I do think it should get me out of the driveway. It was the tires. The video was taken 4 hours after the original post and only showed one attempt/technique of many tried. I don't need Colorado snow expert snobs telling me I don't know how to drive in the snow. Maybe you were trying to be helpful or productive but you came off as pompous to me. My 1981 Subaru would have got out of that snow, the tires were bald, and that was it. It is over, enough with telling me I don't know how to drive. That I am "one of them". I guarantee you, you would not have backed that car out of that spot with the tires in that condition. Obviously I didn't just throw it in low and punch it. I tried all standard options that I would expect to do with a 4 wheel drive vehicle, based on the conditions. If I was buried in snow, I would have locked the diff, and taken further actions until I got out. My point was, in the state that my tires were in at 5 months of driving the car, it made it so I couldn't get out of the driveway.
This last post got me so annoyed I felt like responding a lot more than this, but decided to refrain, rather than get in a pissing contest with such a professional snow driver. If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything. Please.


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## rbeamis (Jan 29, 2002)

*Re: (ufda)*

In the winter of 1984 I was taking drivers ed. in Kalispell Montana in an AMC Eagle. Since then, I've had two snow-related accidents, both before I was 18. When I was a teen I had many many near misses and close calls in the snow and learned a great deal driving a Chevy Vega wagon (very light and unstable in the rear end) with "Tiger Paw" tires and rear wheel drive with one traction wheel. I've moved up since then of course but this early experience has given me some appreciation for those who live in the mountains here in the northwest. I think you can exclude skidmark from the general "drivers from CA suck" theme since he obviously lives in snow country, even more so than I do now living within a half hour of the Canadian border crossings in NE Washington. 
One thing I've learned of late is that if you drop your tire pressure down to the minimum (on mine, about 30 PSI) and make sure they've got at least an eighth of an inch tread and they're M+S rated. I've had GREAT luck with running M+S all season Hakapalitas (sp?) and studded snow rated Gislaved (sp?) all on my Passat. The Hakapalitas wear well during the non-snow months and I find I've got better traction and capability in the snow with the Gislaveds on than I do with my wife's Toyota pickup wearing dedicated studded snow tires. This year I'm going to try letting some air out of the Toyota and throwing 400 pounds in the back, if I'm here and don't take a job offer in L.A.


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## Jason H (Dec 6, 1999)

*Re: (rbeamis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rbeamis* »_ if I'm here and don't take a job offer in L.A.

Totally off-topic from the thread, and I know every circumstance is different, but I can't imagine ever wanting to move from where you are to LA, I grew up here, moved to Portland, OR for 5 years, and moved back for a job offer too. After 1 year back here I decided to find some way, ANY WAY, back to the NW, and I will never consider living here again. Houses that cost you about 200k up in the Spokane area will cost you 800-900k here. Seriously. A million dollar house in the suburb I live in is a moderately nice 4 bedroom on a postage stamp lot. Couple that with a high cost of living, outrageous insurance premiums (in LA county at least), and every third driver trying to literally erase your existance from the road. Sure the weather's nice when the hills aren't either engulfed in flame, or alternatively it doesn't pour 10 inches in a single day (2 days ago, actually).
Maybe you have a great opportunity, just make sure you're eyes are WIDE OPEN, despite what the movies and TV tries to convince the world, LA is pretty far from paradise


----------



## bravocharlie (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

Damn, this is an ugly thread; particularly if the guy is just simply looking for some help.
Anyway, I think your problem is two fold:
1. Conti 18's even though they say are all season do not have a big open lug some other other better all season tires. The tires, in my opinion were definitely the culprit. Been there, done that. For example, for years, I've run Michelin LTX tires on my other SUVs. I've owned at least three if not four sets, got 60K+ miles out of everyone of them and they were awesome in the snow. Take a look at this photo








I am not advocating nor am I thinking about putting these tires on my Touareg, but just compare the open lugs on this tire to any other tire alternative you're considering. I have learned that the open lug is key to winter snow traction.
2. From the photos, its looks like you had a great wet, greasy snow. The contis suck in those conditions, plain and simple. Frankly almost any type of tire would probably slide in those conditions.
A final thought for those who may not have a lot of experience driving in snow (or any other muck for that matter)......the vehicle will have optimal traction when ALL wheels are going in the same direction. I.e. make sure the steering wheel is straight so all four tires are pulling or pushing in the same direction.


----------



## mmmmm127 (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: (skdmarx)*

well said skidmarks, but FWIW and IMHO the Touareg is not as good as my Discovery (was) in snow. But, I must say, that was the only good thing about the discovery. 
my 2c worth (about 1.61 US cents)


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## chickdr (Nov 28, 2003)

I just received the latest Christophorus magazine in which Porsche recommends snow tires for its cars and now SUV. For the Cayenne they recommend:
17"(235/65) Dunlop Grandtrek WT M2, Continental 4X4 Winter Contact, Pirelli Scorpion A/T and Continental 4X4 Contact
18"(235/60) Dunlop Grandtrek WT M2, Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow and Scorpion A/T
18"(255/55) Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow, Continental 4X4
19"(255/50) Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow
Of all the above, they recommend the *Pirelli Scorpion A/T* for heavy snow areas.


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (chickdr)*

Porsche had a huge issue last year with Cayenne owners whining about tires not suitable for winter driving.


----------



## chickdr (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*

Yep they did- those were the stock tires I think. Of course the whiners did not look at the tire to see what it was rated for. They want sports car performance and superior snow ability on the same tire...








Porsche puts out a list of recommended tires for winter driving for all of their cars every year in the Porsche magazine. They have the Boxster and Carrera as well- nice as they give you choices that will work with and without chains and also divide the tires based on the type of driving you will do. Makes it easy to choose.


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (ufda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ufda* »_As a Colorado resident, I see many people who move here from elsewhere (Calif. and Texas) have a big problem with snow. They think 4X4 WILL GET THEM ANYWHERE. Wrong. I think from your post you are one of them. 

Don't ya just love Colorado snobbery like this?
Like it only snows in Colorado. What a maroon.


----------



## DenverBill (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: (Archimedes)*

We are not all snobs.







The 4X4 delusion applies equally to some long time residents as well, particularly when trying to retard forward momentum while going too fast for conditions in an unrealistic short distance. As for the Bridgestone Driving School in Steamboat, hours of ice track time can only go so far when the tires in question have the coefficient of friction of a hockey puck.







To add something of value to the discussion, Tire Rack has their latest rankings of SUV snow tires on their web site. No surprises, other than the performance ratings are quite similar whatever the cost of the tire.


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## mtljetta (Oct 7, 2003)

This is to the original poster.
My brother has the v6 t-reg, my parents have had audi's for as long as i can remember and 4 wheel drive or not you should always have winter tires on all 4 wheels. ( If you live somewhere where it snows that much)


----------



## spikeital (May 21, 2001)

*Re: (mtljetta)*

Have to agree in heavy heavy conditions but my Old Treg V6 with Dunlop Grantreks handles just as good as my old Audi A4 Quattro with Michelin Pilot Alpines in VT.


----------



## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (mtljetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mtljetta* »_This is to the original poster.
My brother has the v6 t-reg, my parents have had audi's for as long as i can remember and 4 wheel drive or not you should always have winter tires on all 4 wheels. ( If you live somewhere where it snows that much) 


Errr....he had M+S (mud and snow) tires on the vehicle...








Did ya read his post?


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (Archimedes)*

Respectfully, I believe that he was referring to dedicated snow tires, not mud/snow tires.


----------



## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (bravocharlie)*

So, you get snow up there in Wolfeboro?







Nah, can't be.


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## bravocharlie (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (4x4s)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4x4s* »_So, you get snow up there in Wolfeboro?







Nah, can't be.

Nah, it never snows here.


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## 12johnny (Oct 28, 2003)

*Re: (chickdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chickdr* »_Of all the above, they recommend the *Pirelli Scorpion A/T* for heavy snow areas. 

Here there is a pic of this tyre (the one that I have now as a spare):








This size (235/65-17) is the standard in the European Touaregs, and their owners are really happy with this setup, especially off-road.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rbeamis (Jan 29, 2002)

*Re: (Jason H)*

Don't misunderstand. I'm a Radio Base Station technician specializing in Ericsson base stations which Cingular and T-Mobile use in their PCS networks. No work for that kind of thing up here in "paradise" so every now and then I have to leave here and work out a contract. I'd never consider moving to L.A. or anywhere in California for that matter. My wife and two cats would come out with me and we'd live at a Residence Inn compliments of my employer for the duration and I'd gross between $1000 and $2000 per week. The latest contract I'm negotiating would last up to 18 months. That should beef up the bank account good enough to last us a while. I may try and figure out a way to buy a diesel Touareg while I'm at it. We'll see...


----------



## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (12johnny)*


_Quote, originally posted by *12johnny* »_
Here there is a pic of this tyre (the one that I have now as a spare):
This size (235/65-17) is the standard in the European Touaregs, and their owners are really happy with this setup, especially off-road.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I'm sure that's a great tire for snow and off road, but it's probably a pretty ****ty tire for on road driving. Knobbies are great for tough conditions, but you pay for it with horrible dry road ride quality and noise. It seems the Pirelli Scorpions are the rage for off road and snow, but I had them on my Cruiser, and the ride quality is just horrible compared to the Michelin or Conti all seasons. I couldn't rip them off and throw them away fast enough.


----------



## 12johnny (Oct 28, 2003)

*Re: (Archimedes)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Archimedes* »_I couldn't rip them off and throw them away fast enough.






















If you thought this way, I'm sure there was a reason...






















When it comes the time that my tyres need a replacement, I'll decide on the new tyres taking into account your recommendations, as you're right and installing a set of off-road tyres for highway use wouldn't be a right choice... I bought this one thinking about taking it as a spare for off-road use, but I still haven't decided about the next ones...








Thanks!!!


----------



## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: (12johnny)*

I've been reading this thread with interest. No snow experience here (as soon as it starts in NJ, I try to get off the roads as quickly as possible).
I'm interested in the various opinions about turning ESP on/off. It was my iunderstanding that ESP on was the way to go for all conditions apart from when you want to rock yourself free in snow.
I've also seen other posts here saying that there may be something wrong with the AWD on the original poster's car as the wheels were spinning. If the wheels were spinning, I think ESP was probably off (or a fault with the ESP system).
Am I right in thinking that the Touareg's AWD system can divert 100% of the power to any wheel (with no diff locks activated)? I think it achieves this the the use of the ASR (anti-slip regulation) - which is a subset of the ESP/ABS function. As the ABS sensors start to detect a spinning wheel, that wheel is braked - if you get to the stage that three wheels are spinning, then all three will be braked and max power will get diverted to just the one wheel with traction - am I right? If all four wheels are spinning.... well, you're going nowhere as the wheels will be braked and in addition, engine power reduced by the engine management.
Ultimately, it looks like tires have a large part to play in snowy conditions but the electronics should help....
John.


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## j2nh (Oct 15, 2003)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*

To me this is getting silly.
I have owned my touareg for 1 year. Drove all last winter in the upper peninsula of Michigan with defective Conti's (replaced all four bald tires in the spring free from VW) and I NEVER had any problems with getting stuck in the snow. 
Previous SUV's:
Mercedes ML 430
Yukon
Grand Cherokee
S10 Blazer
also own currently:
WRX
Legacy AWD
The Touareg is the equal to any of the above mentioned vehicles. 
If a Touareg gets stuck in 6" of snow then something is wrong with the Touareg. Differentials, whatever, but SOMETHING IS WRONG.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*

It was only mentioned in here once, but I've noticed the ESP in the TOUAREG can be more of a pain in the rear than it is a help when snow is on the ground.
There was no answer to the question a posted earlier about the ESP and whether it was off or not.
When reading about this problem, I immediately thought tires, then I remembered the headaches ESP caused me a few times last winter. I've found in tough spots, turning ESP made all the difference.


----------



## cybulman (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

Did you turn it on or off to get better traction?
Thanks,
Cy


----------



## DenverBill (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: (cybulman)*

It helps to turn off the ESP in situations when you want some wheel spin, like trying to gain momentum against deep snow or sand from a stop or near stop. Turning it off does not affect your anti-lock brakes and brake assist. Running a closed course like the Bridgestone track in Steamboat with and without ESP can give you a better perspective of what the electronics are doing. It is possible to lap faster with the ESP off, but it requires skill and attention. That said, in most driving situations other than white knuckle, leave the ESP on. It works faster than you think.


----------



## TCinOC (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_Porsche had a huge issue last year with Cayenne owners whining about tires not suitable for winter driving. 

Yeah Jim, I was going to say the same thing. That was a hilarious thread over there. I don't recall but weren't they also the Contis on his Pepper?


----------



## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (TCinOC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TCinOC* »_
Yeah Jim, I was going to say the same thing. That was a hilarious thread over there. I don't recall but weren't they also the Contis on his Pepper?

The Pepper thread over on Roadfly last winter was related to people who had Performance Tires on their Cayennes, took them in snow, had problems (as you would expect), and then wanted to claim they were 'defective' and that Porsche owed them reimbursement because they advertised that the Cayenne would perform well in snow. A number of people over there had never heard of all-season tires and thought it was the dealerships 'responsibility' to educate them. It was not a discussion of problems people were having with M+S tires of any brand.
Reality is, most Cayennes were sold originally with performance tires, not all seasons, which was probably a mistake on Porsche's part.


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (Archimedes)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Archimedes* »_Reality is, most Cayennes were sold originally with performance tires, not all seasons, which was probably a mistake on Porsche's part.

EXACTLY. In many respects, the same can be said of the VW tires. Yes, it may say mud and snow, but don't be fooled, they are more biased towards dry weather handling than extreme weather handling.


----------



## TCinOC (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (aircooled)*

Well in any case, the Contis work just fine here in Cali winters!


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## cctdi (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

I took my v10 off dealer's lot on June 3rd 04. Since then the car went back to dealer two times; one time for oil change, the other time was my complain about the restrictor in fuel tank neck. Somehow my car desn't have any issue on anything you had post on this forum so far, except I don't have any snow here yet to test its ability on snow ground. One thing I do agree with you is the dealer's capability in dealing with Touareg. Neither the service department or VWOA could answer me if the towhatch could be removed to light up the car just like I did for the 4Runner.


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_
EXACTLY. In many respects, the same can be said of the VW tires. Yes, it may say mud and snow, but don't be fooled, they are more biased towards dry weather handling than extreme weather handling.

Well my point was the the Cayennes were sold primarily with real 'Performance' tires, i.e., Z-ratings, with no M+S capability. A small percentage were sold with Conti M+S tires. The people complaining were not the ones with M+S tires, they were the people with the sticky performance tires, so of which were running on 19" and 20" rims, which is another negative in the snow.. I always thought any idiot knows that performance tires have zero grip in snow. Evidently, there were a group of Cayenne owners over there who weren't even aware there were different types of tires.
Regarding the Conti's, I've been posting and reading all over and most people are saying they are just fine in the snow. That's what an all season tire should be. A compromise tire that is capable of handling a variety of conditions well enough, but not the best performer in any category. Decent grip, but not performance tire level, and decent snow performance, but not the equivalent of a pure snow tire. What's interesting is the Tire Rack has them at the lower end of the 'good' category, which based on their overall range I would interpret to mean marginal. However, they rated the Michelin LTX M+S tire only slightly higher, and I know from experience that the Michelins are excellent in the snow and a great all around all season tire. Personally, I'm going to try out my Contis and see how they do before jumping to the Michelins.


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## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: (skdmarx)*

Jason,I dont blame you for getting mad at all the BS that was heapped on you over your post. I`d be mad at the treg too if I couldn`t get it to go in so little snow. 
But all tire talk aside if I were you I would have a set of strap chains just for real emergencies ,For when I really had to get somewhere.I know it`s annoying to have to put them on,but it`s worth it to have the independence you bought a good suv for. Also the recomendation to have your drive system checked is a good idea too.
I see from your bio that you are only 34 yrs old .so dont worry there is still plenty of time for you to learn how to drive in the snow.


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: (jack oconnor)*

Just got back from a 3 day weekend without the Treg, took our Titan instead. Went to start the Treg to get it out of the driveway before tonights forecasted snowstorm, but, guess what, now the battery is dead. I give up.
Jack, I have NEVER needed chains, on any of my cars, ever in Tahoe in 15 years. I got around every single storm in my STi last winter with M+S tires. The STi is basically a race car and it could handle the winter just fine. Every other car I have ever had got out of any situation I was ever faced with. The idea of buying snow tires or chains for this thing is rediculous.
I am punting this turd.


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: (skdmarx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skdmarx* »_I am punting this turd.

Careful, you may hurt your foot.


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: (4x4s)*

Roadside assistance in on their way to pick up the car and take it to the dealership. Besides needing a jump to get the battery going again (can't hold a charge for more than aa couple days, even when locked, etc.) I refuse to drive this in the snow until it gets looked at. For those that care, below is a link to photos of the tires. Really the only one that is REALLY bad is the front, bald on the inside. The others are all worn more than they should be but should have had some traction in the snow. Every other car on my street did.
http://homepage.mac.com/toutol....html


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (skdmarx)*

Wow, no wonder you couldn't go in the snow. Those tire are near shot. I'd be surprised if they even did well in a little rain!







To boot, you also look like you have an alignment problem on at least one wheel. Shod that baby with some NEW tires with lots of tread depth and report back.


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_Wow, no wonder you couldn't go in the snow. Those tire are near shot. I'd be surprised if they even did well in a little rain!







To boot, you also look like you have an alignment problem on at least one wheel. Shod that baby with some NEW tires with lots of tread depth and report back.

I agree. Those tires not only look seriously worn, especially on the outside, but the compound looks like it has blued, like a performance race tire that has cycled too many times. The race tires on my motorcycle would look like that after a couple of track days when they had no grip left.
Not that it's your fault, but those tires look well worn and are clearly the problem you're having. Looking at the tread pattern on my Conti's I'm guessing that as these tires wear they will lose snow grip very quickly.


----------



## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (Archimedes)*

And wow do you have an alignment problem. 
ot just from the looks of the inside front left, but the outside of the others. Something very strange is going on with your suspension.


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## redneck (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: (skdmarx)*








http://forums.clubtouareg.com/...d=619
I agree that there is a problem with that touareg. Mine climbs fine in snow with contis


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## trollhole (Nov 6, 2003)

Yeah there was no way you were going to get out of the driveway with those tires. You might as well have had slicks on. There is very little tread left and you are a couple thousand miles from hitting the tread wear marks.


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## vwtouaregv6 (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (skdmarx)*

The same type of comments were posted when I posted a topic about being stuck in the mud:
I didn't know how to drive off road
I didn't know what I was doing
etc
The bottom line is, our Treg isn't invincible. It gets stuck.


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## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (aircooled)*

...and he should check his ESP unit too.. I bet it blew itself off trying to manage traction of tires like this..








By the way when did he last checked their psi?? They may have gone from over inflation and of course the harder you blow them the less you grip...


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## cybulman (Dec 18, 2003)

To all posters:
I think we should all work constructively to solve the problems, that a T-Reg owner faces and point him in the right direction.
Trying to blame the poster, instead of issues with the truck, is a device I see used very often.
Many people are not as "techie-mechie" knowledgeable, about cars/trucks and need to be guided.
This guy got stuck, due to a myriad of problems - bad tires, bad alignment, ESP position etc...and he genuinely believes he is an experienced "snow-driver". 
We now have him pointed in the right direction, but we could have done this with a lot less crap and a lot more class!
It's OK to joke a bit on a forum, but let's not heap abuse on a guy/gal with a problem and make it worse.
Thanks Y'All!
Cy


----------



## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (cybulman)*

Agree... But what do you do if after 4 pages of "lighten up" comments he keeps coming back blaming the car??


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: (jinxegg)*

"Agree... But what do you do if after 4 pages of "lighten up" comments he keeps coming back blaming the car??"
So are you saying that it wasn't the car's fault that my tires were worn so bald in 8,500 miles that I couldn't get out of the driveway? Even VW admits that it is the mis-alignment of the car that did that, and that the mis-alignment is their fault. So how is this my fault?


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## vwincident (Jul 3, 2004)

*Re: (skdmarx)*

Will this thread ever END!!!








New topic, Please.....


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## theswami (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: Stuck in the driveway, in 6 inches of snow. (vwtouaregv6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwtouaregv6* »_The same type of comments were posted when I posted a topic about being stuck in the mud:
I didn't know how to drive off road
I didn't know what I was doing
etc
The bottom line is, our Treg isn't invincible. It gets stuck.

It seems that this was a case of folks commenting using the information available from the original poster.
The Treg isn't invincible BUT under NORMAL circumstances the truck should have handled the original poster's situation easily.
When poked and prodded and after flaming and other comments, it appears that his truck malfunctioned due to well known problems associated with a small % of the vehicles.
It seems to be that the original poster intended to make generalizations about the truck's quality and ability to function as an offroad/snow vehicle. His generalizations are wrong. He has a problem with HIS truck and most do not. 
If you read the text accompanying his video and pictures without context you would think that the Touareg stinks in all but perfect weather and road conditions. That is WRONG! With that said, his truck does have a problem that should be fixed at no cost.


----------



## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (skdmarx)*

Your reply to 4x4s further up this page suggests that the car should have moved despite the tires condition..
If you had an alignment problem should have been noticeable long before your tires got in this condition.. Car requires an effort to go straight, pulls either to the left or to the right and this doesn't make it a bad SUV, it is just a sick SUV... So should have taken it in long time ago, fixed it and replace the tires before the snow decided to test your "snow driving experience" on slicks....


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: (jinxegg)*

Ok guys, please give me honest advice now, I am asking for honest opinions now.
Based on the photos of my tires, what do you think about this. Reno VW just looked at my tires on the Touareg (it was towed there last night) and said that the tires were fine and that if I wanted them replaced I would have to pay for them. Please look at my photos and tell me what I should do now. I swear, this is exactly what the Service manager told me about my tires. I am about to go postal.
http://homepage.mac.com/toutol....html


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (skdmarx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skdmarx* »_Based on the photos of my tires, what do you think about this. Reno VW just looked at my tires on the Touareg (it was towed there last night) and said that the tires were fine and that if I wanted them replaced I would have to pay for them. Please look at my photos and tell me what I should do now. I swear, this is exactly what the Service manager told me about my tires. I am about to go postal.


Simple. Go to an independent tire and alignment place and get a second opinion. There is no way that the wear on that one tire is normal or that the tire is 'fine'. It's clearly worn unevenly.
Regarding the others, as someone else noted, from the pictures it appears that you are only a few thousand miles from the wear bars, and tires should always be switched before you reach the wear bars. So, if this is normal wear, what he is telling you is that normal life for a Conti all season tire is 10-12k miles, which is ridiculous.


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: (skdmarx)*

Check these two threads. Print the Service Circular from the second post, and bring it to your dealer - even if your TReg does not fall within the VIN range specified.
Alignment Problems from the Factory [Archived]
Service Circular for wheel alignment [Archived]
At least this should prove that your wear is not normal, and that VW has responded to some owners with similar tire issues. Unfortunately for you, it sounds as if you have a crappy dealer, and not too many local options.
Another possible course of action would be to just get your tires replaced now (the snow will only be getting worse!), thoroughly document the wear issue, and take the Dealer and VW to small claims court to try and recover some of the cost.


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## BoostAddiction (Aug 31, 2004)

*Re: (4x4s)*

It seems to me that this thread should have been titled "Stuck in the driveway because I have bald tires!"
All this sturm-und-drang because, as it now turns out, your tires are worn.
Aside from misalignment that is the drivers responsibility to monitor (regardless of whose "fault" it is), why is this in any way VWs fault?








Sheesh.
-Will



_Modified by BoostAddiction at 1:08 PM 10-26-2004_


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## cybulman (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: (jinxegg)*

No frickin' car, truck, whatever, I have ever owned or driven and I've driven many - needs to be aligned after 5-7-9/000 miles on it - or drives its owner nuts with the tires getting bald.
Like I said, many people do not even think or know how to look at tires for balding between services. The pre-delivery inspection or the periodic service at the VW stealer, should have picked up that it was mis-aligned etc...this is the truck's problem not the owner's.
Give the poor bugger a break.
Cy


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: (cybulman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cybulman* »_...The pre-delivery inspection or the periodic service at the VW stealer, should have picked up that it was mis-aligned etc...this is the truck's problem not the owner's.
Give the poor bugger a break.
Cy

And if not the pre-delivery inspection, at least the 5K or 10K service.
But, as a previous poster said, the original post did tend to paint all Touaregs in general as a shyte, rather than recognizing that this was an issue with one in particular, or at most a small subset of all Touaregs.
I think the general vortex Touareg community are more than willing to help, but let's keep the issues in perspective - and the flames to the uninformed to a dull roar.


----------



## TregDad (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: (skdmarx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skdmarx* »_Reno VW just looked at my tires on the Touareg (it was towed there last night) and said that the tires were fine

Yeah, I was afraid that would happen to you. Contrary to the info here, VW is only replacing tires associated with certain VINs. My truck is a few months older than yours, I have nearly worn out Contis 4/32 tread at 10,500 miles, but evenly worn. My dealer said no way that VW would replace the tires. Like mine, your dealer is wack! While I think my alignment is fine, yours is clearly not. This was a BAD tire choice for this vehicle, way too soft.
Seems to me that video of yours is a good lever in your pocket. Bad publicity for VW. I say use it. 
I sympathize with you. I found the Touareg to be just fine on my Conti's last winter, at full tread depth. No way am I driving on them into winter after your video. Thanks for sharing that - it is good evidence that proper tires are important. 
Good luck.


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## DenverBill (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: (cybulman)*

Not being argumentative, but my last three vehicles have been delivered with alignments that needed to be checked and adjusted after ~1500 - 2000 miles of driving to allow for the suspensions to settle: 1999 ML 430; 2000 Boxster S; 2004 Touareg V-8. I suspect it is because the manufacturers have finally accepted the fact that individual vehicles will wear-in differently, and thus need some adjustment. Interestingly, the highest performance car, the Boxster, was by far the most out of spec after initial break-in. Its toe settings were so off that 6,000 miles of tire wear on the rears would have been a pipe dream.


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## j2nh (Oct 15, 2003)

*Re: (DenverBill)*

VW replaced ALL FOUR of the Conti's that came as original equipment on my V8 Touareg at 10500 miles. Mine showed wear very similar to your photos. I took the vehicle in for routine service and was informed that the scheduled tire rotation could not be done due to the condition of the tires. My SA did not even blink, four new tires and a new alignment. I was informed at the time that the alignment was way out of whack although the car did not "pull" and tracked well for an SUV. 
Having said that, there is NO WAY that any SUV (4 wheel drive) could not navigate 6 inches of snow. I never had any problems and my tires were replaced in the spring after driving them all winter (upper peninsula of Michigan). Something more is wrong with this Touareg than just the tires. Your SA needs to pull his head out and find out what is wrong. Start working your way up the food chain.
Good luck
j2nh
04 V8 all the stuff 
01 996 This is the car that does not go in 6 " of snow although with PSM (Porsche Stability Management) it might!
04 WRX


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## kbear (Mar 9, 1999)

*Re: (skdmarx)*

skdmarx,
Not to discount the problems you are having, and VW will replace all 4 tires for you, but you say you know how to drive in snow? 
Why, in the video, are you cranking the front wheels to the right? That would inevidably cause the truck to slide to the right the way it did! Just my observation. I make it through Chicago winters in a cabriolet!


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: (kbear)*

I spent over an hour backing the car out different ways, the video is about 20 seconds of that time and shows 1 attempt of many.


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## touchtone (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (skdmarx)*

I have read a lot of the post on this website for awhile now. I finally decieded to make a post after a year of owning my Touareg.
My tires (Continental/ 18inch) look simular to skdmarx's. I brought my car into the dealership and they told me that I needed new tires. One of the tires I did pay for because of a nail...The other three I got the dealer to replace because there seem to be an aliment problem. The dealer was not up front about this either. The only way I discovered the aliment issue was because of the post on this site also from Sears checking my Tire Tread. My front Tires I believe had 2/32 of Tread...and the Tread was not even all the way across my front tires...which indicates an aliment problem. 
My point is the Continental Tires are not great tires and the car was never alined properly...this lead to my tires having to be replaced in one year.


_Modified by touchtone at 12:55 PM 10-27-2004_


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## rbeamis (Jan 29, 2002)

*Re: (skdmarx)*

Now that you finially showed us your tires, IT'S DEFINATELY YOUR FAULT for not seeing it coming. Tires are one of the most important safety devises to consider and continually monitor on any vehicle. There's a reason my FWD Passat actually goes better in snow under five inches deep than my wife's 4x4 Toyota truck and the tires are definately a big part of that reason. I find it very disturbing you'd let the tires wear to that level without considering what they'd do (or not do) in the snow or even the rain. You were putting your life and the lives of your passangers in unnecessary jeopardy with those tires on your rig.
In Seattle during snow storms it was amusing to see that very often the vehicles found abandoned in the roads were 4x4 SUVs and other AWD vehicles. People think the car can drive for them and they don't have to do anything. Driving requires skill and intelligence to succeed in incliment weather, but it also requires specific equipment including GOOD TIRES! I'd be embarassed to post on this topic again if I were you.


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: (rbeamis)*

" I'd be embarassed to post on this topic again if I were you."
Unfortunately for you, I will post again.
This is my wife's car, I don't drive it much. At the 5k service, I asked the dealer to rotate the tires because I saw a little uneven wear at that time. They said the tires did not need to be rotated and that they would not rotate them unless i paid for it. They told me to wait until 10k like VW recommends. This is the same dealership that now tells me these tires are fine, nothing wrong and come pick up the car and drive it home in the snow. I did not continue to check the tires, unlike you obviously do, as I assumed that based on the dealer telling me they were fine and the fact that they only have 8,500 miles on them. I assumed they were ok, and since my wife never mentioned any problems driving it. Drop the attitude Beavis. People on this forum are claiming 20,000 miles and more on these tires, mine are trashed at 8,500 miles.
So, I assume you also check your oil and all your other fluids every time you fill up your car at the gas station too, right? Do you change it every 1,000 miles just to be safe. I didn't check to see if my tires were going bald in the first 10,000 miles, jeez what a stupid person I am.
The only FAULT I can really admit here is the fact that I read all the other horror stories on this forum BEFORE leasing my Touareg, and it is my "FAULT for not seeing it coming." I should have stayed away from this vehicle instead of ignoring all the negatives and listening to all the raves about the car.
Let this thread die already. Just for you, I may start another one detailing the ordeal I am going through with the dealership who is telling me the tires are fine and to come drive it home in the snow.


_Modified by skdmarx at 7:57 AM 10-28-2004_


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## treg4574 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (skdmarx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skdmarx* »_Ok guys, please give me honest advice now, I am asking for honest opinions now.
Based on the photos of my tires, what do you think about this. Reno VW just looked at my tires on the Touareg (it was towed there last night) and said that the tires were fine and that if I wanted them replaced I would have to pay for them. 

Honest. OK. Here it comes. Duck.
You are guilty of two things.
The first is that you need to keep a better eye on your tires. Not a major sin. Most drivers still commit this sin every day. Most that do pay attention (like me) did not do so until they had their first tire problem. 
The second thing you are guilty of is going to a Jerk *** stealer. I know it is a long drive for you. You really need to find a dealer. A good dealer. There is no reason for that stealer to refuse to fix your treg. What a bunch of jerks Reno VW appears to be.
From the looks of your tires, at least two need to be junked now. A VW tsb states that the dealer should replace two tires free and do the alignment free. Going strictly by this, you may chose to purchase two tires and have VW pay for the other two. Sometimes (with a good dealer who goes to bat for their customers) VW has been talked into paying for all four. At the least, you should get two tires and the alignment for free. 
And there is no reason not to go to low mode with center diff locked when you get stuck. But (with the slicks you have) I am glad that you stayed in the driveway. Those tires could have got you in a serious accident in the snow. Better that you are unhappy and here _than_ happy and no longer with us.
Good luck.... I hope you find a good service department.


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## skdmarx (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: (treg4574)*

I didn't have a choice on the dealer this time. VW Roadside Assistance would only tow it to the closest dealer, which is Lithia in Reno, Nevada, 60 miles from me. I requested anywhere but that dealership, but that is where they would take it.
My car doesn't fall into the VIN range for the TSB, so according to the dealership, there is no alignment problem and nothing wrong with the tires on my car.
Thanks, treg4574, for your honest input. It is appreciated.


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (skdmarx)*

While I don't share your negative perspective on the Touareg, as mine has been flawless but for the clock inaccuracy, but that sig is funny.


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## cybulman (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: (skdmarx)*

That is one artistic turd...do you do like that? You should sell frozen turds as art...in various shapes and forms!
While the Touareg has many problems...it is not a TURD! It is the stealers who make it a turd when they do not care.
FIND A DEALER !
Cy


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## beechbum (Oct 4, 2004)

*Re: (skdmarx)*

lol


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## 12johnny (Oct 28, 2003)

*Re: (skdmarx)*























You're an artist!!
Good luck with your car! It's an awesome vehicle and your wife and you deserve to enjoy it as you should.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (skdmarx)*

First of all I don't own a T-reg but have to ask the question was the ESP on or off. 
The reason I ask this is because VW Magazine Australia went to Fraser Island off Queensland and bogged a V8 T-reg. 
They realized later it was the ESP causing trouble exactly the way you explain loose wheels, apparently the ESP comes in to early at times so it needs to be turned off as well as the diff lock this is also a traction system.
Anyway VWMA went through the same trouble spot several times and nothing got stuck anyway hope this helps.
Good Luck with the T-Reg
-----------------------------
Cheers phaeton


_Modified by phaeton at 10:44 AM 10-29-2004_


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## BrunDog (Jan 21, 2004)

You should have had the diff(s) locked. This is a no-brainer, tires be damned.
-BD


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