# Risky with no pdc??



## justme97 (May 23, 2006)

I was gonna order the eos with pbc but the dealer found me a car that is comming off the boat in a few weeks with no pdc but with the exact config I want otherwise. 
I really don't want to give up half the summer fun in an eos waiting for them to build my eos but I wanted pdc to protect the trunklid/roof. SOMETIMES I can be absentminded and I was going to get the roof module.
My question is have any of you had problems hitting or almost hitting something behind the car when lowering/raising the roof since you didn't have the extra protection pdc provides? Has pdc ever saved you from hitting something? If you were me would you wait the extra 10+ weeks to get a car with pdc? 
Thanks, I can't wait to joing the ranks of eos owners soon and actually help people instead of bugging them with questions!










_Modified by justme97 at 2:38 PM 4-24-2007_


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## coco_island (Apr 24, 2007)

In my country, you don't have the choice. All have pdc, and you don't have to worry about place when you open.


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## justme97 (May 23, 2006)

*Re: (coco_island)*

I wish it was like that everywhere...in the us I haven't seen even one eos optioned with pdc...seems the only people getting it have personally optioned it that way.


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## EOSmage (Feb 9, 2007)

*Re: (justme97)*

Honestly? I'd wait for the PDC.
I backed into a spot, and the PDC wouldn't let me put up the roof. I ended up getting out and looking because I couldn't see anything back there, nor did I see anything in the way on the way towards the spot.
I guess the car next to me was blocking it, so I didn't see it there. A small concrete block (like the one used to mount small parking lot lights onto) was there, it had nothing on it, and blended really well with the concrete parking surface.
If not for PDC, I'd have really been kicking myself. While it is true that with a little care and attention, you really don't need it... mistakes happen, and it is really nice to know that the car has got your back for those few times when things could go wrong.

I should also mention that it is really great at detecting the "wife" when she decides to walk behind the car to get into the house... I wish there was a "if she walks back there when I'm putting up the roof, hit her with the trunk lid" option.







(wife: only joking...







)
Hey, Michael... Have you heard of any OEM retro-fits for "STOP" signs that swing out like you see on the newer school buses?


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## jdl (Dec 7, 2006)

I think PDC is a must and would wait. I also drive a toyota 4Runner and have a ton more viability in that car than I do in the Eos. I would have no clue how close something is behind me without it. 
Jack


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## lonerthx (Oct 5, 2006)

I was lucky, I didn't originally order the PDC, but when that order was taking too long to be picked up, it got resubmitted but with PDC included. I can honestly say it's worth the cost and the wait.
It's nice to have day in, day out, but also, we have a crammed driveway with multiple cars and trucks, and it's reasuring to know I have space to open the roof, and an aid in navigating in reverse.


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## justme97 (May 23, 2006)

*Re: (lonerthx)*

It would'nt help much with the roof but it seems that with wireless technology the way it is there should be some easy to instal some sort of aftermarket pdc? 


_Modified by justme97 at 6:22 PM 4-24-2007_


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (justme97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *justme97* »_It would'nt help much with the roof but it seems that with wireless technology the way it is there should be some easy to instal some sort of aftermarket pdc? 

_Modified by justme97 at 6:22 PM 4-24-2007_

I had that very thought, but an aftermarket install would include replacing the rear bumper cover which runs the price up well above $1000K.
I thought that the US was like other markets and all the cars had PDC, but found out too late that I was mistaken. If you ask me, the price of the PDC is some of the cheapest insurance you could ever hope to buy for a car. 
It's a tough call having to wait an extra 6 months though. If that were the case I'd wait for the new model year so you don't also take a big hit on resale value. In addition to the dealers being slower and more apt to cut a deal, due to holiday spending and cold weather (in the Northenr states anyway) this is a good reason to buy a car in the November-January timeframe.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*What the heck is PDC?*

Que?


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## grubber (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: (justme97)*

I did not order my PDC - it came with a EOS I happened to find when I was calling around to dealers
I have a 2.0t with the Sport package
the 18 inch tires with the Parking distance control


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## justme97 (May 23, 2006)

*Re: (grubber)*

The only thing with pdc is that I....like many in suburbia....rarely parelel park and I also happen to pull in head first into parking spots. So while it's great insurance it still doesn't seem like a HUGE deal since my car's rump will be pointing toards the road/parking lot 98% of the time, right?


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (justme97)*

PDC = Park Distance Control.
I now/understand why no one stated what PDC means.
I cannot believe people are serious about this







Risky with no PDC? I've heard the term don't know one's ass from one's elbow, but come on... Not knowing where one's car ends?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

_Quote, originally posted by *justme97* »_My question is have any of you had problems hitting or almost hitting something behind the car when lowering/raising the roof since you didn't have the extra protection pdc provides? Has pdc ever saved you from hitting something? If you were me would you wait the extra 10+ weeks to get a car with pdc? 
_Modified by justme97 at 2:38 PM 4-24-2007_


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## EOSmage (Feb 9, 2007)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (liquid stereo)*

I would suggest waiting for it. Actually, I will never buy a car unless it is equipped with the PDC from now on. No one "plans" to make a mistake and that is why they are called "accidents" instead of "deliberates".
I was parking in the lot of a new commercial area, and the lot wasn't finished totally. I found my spot and backed into it. The lot still didn't have any markings on the ground, even though the store was open it was only recently completed. When I came back out, I decided that it would be nice to have the roof down. Car wouldn't let me.
I thought, "great, 4 months and now the trouble starts" but decided that I'd check the list of "roof opening requirements" before getting upset (the list is in the manual but is also on this site elsewhere). As I walked behind the car to "ensure" the trunk was properly closed, I saw it...
A small concrete block that parking lots usually place light poles on so that they are higher than a car's bumper-- better to have you ruin your car than knock a light down. There was no light on it, nor was there any markings. Since the lot was new, the concrete block blended really well with the new concrete parking surface and I didn't even know it was there. (maybe this was a trick of the dusk lighting or maybe due to the tinting in the windows, whatever the cause, that block just was not visible to me)
I suppose the PDC was beeping as I backed into the spot, but my music was probably turned up to high-- this is a side warning to those of us who listen to the tunes LOUD, I suggest turning them down a bit when parking. Only luck stopped me from backing into it when I first parked.
When I started the car, the music always starts soft (thanks to VW for thinking of that). When I got back into the car, I flipped into reverse just to see if that block was the reason. "beep beep beep" yep.
Moved forward until reverse didn't beep anymore and it opened fine. 
I'm usually very careful about what I do in my cars, especially when they are 4 months old. I look around and try to ensure I know where things are. I know how "big" the car is, and I don't have any issues knowing where the bumpers are. 99% of the time, PDC is a real waste of time and money for me.
HOWEVER, for incidents like this one, the 1% "accident" which can't be avoided, I'm really happy I have the PDC watching my back.
I suppose, like everything else in the world, we have to decide what is important for ourselves. There is no one else who can make that decision for us. I just really believe that spending a few bucks up front to ensure your trunk remains undamaged is a small price to pay-- the PDC in my car has saved me once already and has paid for itself.
Your mileage may vary, but I doubt it.
--Jon


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## okwei (Mar 14, 2007)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (justme97)*

Well, I like PDC, but mine doesnt have, i dont like to wait just for a PDC, never need it..


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## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

I had a choice, between taking delivery of the car as is, exactly as I wanted, except for PDC, or waiting 3-5 months for the same thing, with PDC installed. I chose instant gratification, and I have to say I am not dissapointed. more than 9 months later, and all is well. I am very cognisant of my surroundings when I lower/raise the top, and usually drive to an OPEN area before operating the top mechanism.
Whatever suits you, but it sure would be a shame to wait all that time without such a cool car, unless you feel you really need it. I guess it also depends on what you are driving now, and your own personal sense of urgency in getting this new car, and also 2008 is comming, so that may be a factor as well


_Modified by ialonso at 8:57 AM 4-25-2007_


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## justme97 (May 23, 2006)

*Re: (ialonso)*

Well I don't want to wait for the '08 in case they do actually drop the 2.0t w/sports pkg and the samarkand wheels which I love. And at least getting the car sooner I'll get to enjoy it a bit before it depreciates a model year.
From what I read it seems that if you back into parking spaces pdc sounds like almost a must. A quick check of my parking garage showed that about 50% of people backed in would damge thier roofs if they were eoses deploying tops. Kinda scary.
But for people like me that pull in head first most of the time I'm still not too sure that it's nessesary. If I just drove over a piece of road and am going to have to use that same piece of road to back out of the space is it really possible the roof could hit something when deploying?


_Modified by justme97 at 10:33 AM 4-25-2007_


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## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (justme97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *justme97* »_Well I don't want to wait for the '08 in case they do actually drop the 2.0t w/sports pkg and the samarkand wheels which I love.
From what I read it seems that if you back into parking spaces pdc sounds like almost a must. But for people like me that pull in head first most of the time I'm still not too sure it's nessesary...

Has your dealer done an inventory search of the New England/Mid-Atlantic region for an Eos that has what you want? It's worth a shot. An you are rigth about VW's penchant for de-contenting between model years (e.g., the 2005.5 Jetta vs. the 2006 Jetta).


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (justme97)*

I truly believe VW should have built this feature into the Eos on all models as a safety feature to protect the roof. They could have buried the price in the price of the car and no one would have noticed. 
Andy


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## justme97 (May 23, 2006)

*Re: (ialonso)*

Agreed. I don't think most dealers realize the pdc even protects the top...they just figure it's for parking and only nessary for touregs and other large vehicles...



_Modified by justme97 at 1:07 PM 4-25-2007_


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (EOSmage)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EOSmage* »_
I just really believe that spending a few bucks up front to ensure your trunk remains undamaged is a small price to pay-- the PDC in my car has saved me once already and has paid for itself.
Your mileage may vary, but I doubt it.
--Jon

My point exactly. Considering the cost is less than most deductibles, I would buy this coverage every time.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (liquid stereo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquid stereo* »_I cannot believe people are serious about this








Risky with no PDC? I've heard the term don't know one's ass from one's elbow, but come on... Not knowing where one's car ends?

Sean:
Please don't post comments like that. Different individuals will have different opinions about things, and one of the most important objectives that we (Mark and I) have as moderators is to ensure that the forum is a friendly place where everyone is treated with respect.
This is one of the main reasons why most users sign their posts with their first name, and begin posts with the name of the person they are responding to - 'internet anonymity' often leads to a lack of respect for others, and that is not acceptable here.
Thanks,
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (justme97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *justme97* »_...If you were me would you wait the extra 10+ weeks to get a car with pdc? 

Hi Brennan:
Well, if it was November, and the extra 10+ weeks postponed the delivery to early February - sure, I'd wait.
The problem is that it's not November, it's now the exact beginning of convertible car season







, and I don't think I would want to wait another day.
Although having the protection against bumping up against a wall that PDC provides is nice, I don't think that you should let the lack of PDC prevent you from getting a car that you otherwise like. I think that you need about 2 feet of clearance behind the car to allow the trunk lid to swing back when you raise or lower the roof... I don't think you will have much problem getting used to double-checking the space available behind the car before operating the roof.
Michael


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## vweosdriver (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (cb391)*

Car makers have to decide if I add many options to the base car and raise the price can I sell the car or should the base price be lower and options plentiful? Some times I think they get it wrong. I'm glad I have PDC. I had four sensors added to my Toyota Avalon rear bumper because they were no OEM ones. Cost was about $200US including installation cost. On an Eos they wouldn't stop the top operation but would give you a warning when parking.


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (vweosdriver)*

After I decided to buy the Eos at the dealership my main requirement was exterior and interior color with the Lux package. My dealer didn't have one meeting my specs on their lot but found two in the area, one with PDC and one with the Dynaudio stereo. I preferred neither because I know how to parallel park and I thought the stock radio was pretty darn good. I "settled" for the PDC car and I'm SO glad I did. Not only does it protect the trunk lid while opening (very useful in a city) but it is also VERY convenient when parallel parking allowing me to get into a spot much faster. Living in a city area I use it more then I do the CSC top. I absolutely love it! It's one of those things that you never think you needed but can't live without once you have it. Kinda like going from dial-up to broadband. You just cant go back.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (vweosdriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vweosdriver* »_Some times I think they get it wrong.

Amen. It's really difficult to get the configuration right using the "pre-build and stock it on the lot" philosophy that VW and other car makers follow in the North American market. In the case of the Eos, it seems that the buyers are willing to spend more than VW originally guessed, because most of the complaints have been about options that are not present, such as xenon lighting or Park Distance Control.
However - sometimes it works in the other direction. In the case of the Phaeton, the cars that were brought to North America were built with 85% of the European optional equipment as 'standard equipment' in the North American market. This pushed the starting price of the North American Phaetons up about 30% higher than the starting price of the European ones, and sales in North America suffered as a result of this.
It would be awfully nice if VW could develop a 'build to order' program for NAR market buyers who are willing to wait 16 weeks or so for a car to be built to their custom specification, then delivered to their dealer from Portugal.
Michael


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (vweosdriver)*

Not exactly true. If you go up several posts and read the one by Eosmage, you will see that PDC also acts to prevent the roof from opening when there is not enough clearance at the rear of the car. If the car had PDC standard and the price tag was $350 higher and it had been built into the base you nor I would have known. ESP and ASR are built into the base price and I'm certain these items would be more than the $350 and are an option on many brands. There are several built-in things in the base price such as being able to open the windows with the key. I would think it would make more sense to protect the roof than to have convenient windows. When I ordered my Eos, PDC was an option and only available if you ordered the Sport or Luxury. Had I known at that time that was the only way to get the roof protect feature $350 on top of $36k, it would have been a no-brainer.
Most of the press releases I had read talked about this feature but I don't remember them saying it was called PDC.
Andy


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## vweosdriver (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (cb391)*

My point was you don't have to know the price of the option to know that the base price is higher with it added. "There is no free lunch".


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## ChicagoVW (Sep 10, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (cb391)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cb391* »_Not exactly true. If you go up several posts and read the one by Eosmage, you will see that PDC also acts to prevent the roof from opening when there is not enough clearance at the rear of the car. If the car had PDC standard and the price tag was $350 higher and it had been built into the base you nor I would have known. ESP and ASR are built into the base price and I'm certain these items would be more than the $350 and are an option on many brands. There are several built-in things in the base price such as being able to open the windows with the key. I would think it would make more sense to protect the roof than to have convenient windows. When I ordered my Eos, PDC was an option and only available if you ordered the Sport or Luxury. Had I known at that time that was the only way to get the roof protect feature $350 on top of $36k, it would have been a no-brainer.
Most of the press releases I had read talked about this feature but I don't remember them saying it was called PDC.
Andy 

I couldn't agree more. In fact, back when I bought my car in September both my dealer and I believed that the PDC option only referred to parking not roof operation. We both thought, surely the roof wouldn't operate if there wasn't space for it to open. But alas, not. So I don't have it. I would have never noticed an extra $350 on top of $36K and wish it had been included.
However, not once yet (touch wood) have I come even close to hitting something while opening my roof. I just don't open it in tight spaces. If I'm parked ass first in a spot, I pull forward before opening the roof. If I'm parked head first, I look behind me. If I'm parallel parked, I pull out before opening the roof. When parking and closing the roof, I reverse the above practice.
Having PDC would have been nice for the peace of mind, but I'd probably still have the same behavior about opening the roof.
Alex


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## justme97 (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (ChicagoVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ChicagoVW* »_
Having PDC would have been nice for the peace of mind, but I'd probably still have the same behavior about opening the roof.


I was thinking the same thing. Pdc sounds like great insurance against incedents like when Jon could not see the half built pole behind him. But I still think that any eos driver (pdc or not) should still be very aware of what is behind him when engaging roof. So if you are carefull (and lucky) pdc should't be nessesary as more than a parking convenience feature.
I wonder if when the trunk on a non-pdc car hits something if theres a sensor that notices (like anti pinch on power windows) and automatically stops or reverses the top operation before too much damage occurs.
Brennan


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (justme97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *justme97* »_
I wonder if when the trunk on a non-pdc car hits something if theres a sensor that notices (like anti pinch on power windows) and automatically stops or reverses the top operation before too much damage occurs.
Brennan

Afraid not, someone tested it using a cardboard box and it pushed the box over and kept going.
IMHO, I am not sure why VW didn't include this as standard. I think most people would agree it is well worth the money and it is a great sales incentive for anyone who might be concerned about the roof being error prone. If I were a sales person I would definitely tout this feature.


_Modified by jgermuga at 10:43 AM 4-26-2007_


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## EOSmage (Feb 9, 2007)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (jgermuga)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jgermuga* »_I am not sure why VW didn't include this as standard.

I agree totally. The car is really well built-- amazingly so-- but when that roof starts to move we temporarily place the car in a very vulnerable state. 
None of us deliberately go out and decide to smash up our trunk during roof operations, however, it does happen. In the same way that opening the trunk in "low ceiling" environments (under the opened garage door) has seen people with scratches on the top of their trunks.
People are not perfect, and no matter how careful we are, mistakes are a natural part of life. I can't understand why VW didn't make it mandatory. It is a really cheap protection against possibly expensive repairs.
Overall, I'm really impressed with VW and the Eos. My only complaint with them so far is their rigid options structure and unusual choice of standard features.
Back to the point of the original poster-- I still recommend to him, and any others making this decision, that PDC is worth the wait.


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (vweosdriver)*

I never implied that "there is no free lunch". My point is if the car's base price had been $350 higher and PDC was built-in would it have turned you away from buying you Eos? Even those who bought the base Eos probably wouldn't have changed their purchase because they liked the car that much. I agree that VW could have done a better job of picking the best features and still come up with reasonable pricing. 
Andy


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## justme97 (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (cb391)*

Does anyone ever lower/raise their top at slow stoplights or is the eos top too slow? I do it all the time with my eclipse spyder. I was thinking if someone pulls up too close to your bumper that's another situation where the pdc might save you.
It seems to me that adding pdc after the fact shouldn't be that big a deal. I'm sure it would cost a little more than $350 after installation but vw should really offer it as a dealer installed option.


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## The Fig (Mar 23, 2007)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (justme97)*

Yes, plenty of time. And it does provide peace of mind to have the PDC. Fact is having PDC provides extra levels of freedom. If I didn't have PDC I probably wouldn't operate the roof at traffic lights, I wouldn't operate the roof without pulling out first or checking for obstacles every time, and I definitely wouldn't operate the roof with the remote key from 50 yards away (which is something I *really* appreciate).
If you don't get the PDC, truth is, you'd soon get used to being careful and I'm sure you'd never have a problem. In the meantime you'd be enjoying your new baby in the sun and soon forget about the whole debate.
However, if you're like me and you're a pedantic geek that plans to keep the car for a long time, wait the extra months and get the PDC. Otherwise you'll always have that nagging feeling - I still haven't got over the Xenon lights thing - never mind, long story. I got my car in November and was riding top down from the start and all through the Winter - heated seats, wind deflectors and heating go a long way. Having fun in a convertible isn't just for the Summer.
Frankly, I'd like to find out how to get front PDC seamlessly installed (the UK often requires tight parking). BTW, how does that work? Is it on all the time when you're in gear or do you need to press a button?
Jason


_Modified by The Fig at 8:55 PM 4-26-2007_


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## vweosdriver (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (cb391)*

I agree. bob


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (EOSmage)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EOSmage* »_
Overall, I'm really impressed with VW and the Eos. My only complaint with them so far is their rigid options structure and unusual choice of standard features.
Back to the point of the original poster-- I still recommend to him, and any others making this decision, that PDC is worth the wait.

*AMEN!* I would have added PDC to my Base Eos if it had been available at the time (or gotten a 2.0T Lux if it had been available *w/o leather steering wheel and leather seats*)
I would have also gotten the splash guards if they had offered the option (they do offer it on the Base now)-- instead I had to pay twice as much just for the parts to install myself!
I don't parallel park much-- which is even *more reason* to have it when you _do have to parallel park_.
Also, I find it *very* difficult to judge where the back of the Eos ends from the driver's seat.(I roll down the window and stick my head out)
Get as much technology as you can upfront! Even many of those simple features will be a PITA to add later
ex. I only get *1* 12v outlet!







and it has that silly cover that opens inconveniently forward. My wife's '01.5 Passat wagon has lots inc. 2 in the trunk! (great for leaving a phone or other device charging while parked)
I plan to keep my Eos forever (or until VW creates a Much Better Replacement), and I would have waited patiently IF they had been able to configure it to MY desired features.
William


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## justme97 (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (justme97)*

Thanks for you help guys (origional poster here). There was a misunderstanding at my dealer and the car with no pdc was purchased for me (from another dealer) and since my origional purchase order didn't have pdc on it I assume they can legally force me into the car with no pdc (or at least take my $500 deposit). 
The only thing is that before signing the origional purchase order I specifically asked the salesperson why I might need pdc on a small car like the eos and she omited the fact that pdc protects the roof in our discustion. She told me it wasn't nesesary. I sort of feel like she fell down on the job, it was her job to tell me why I needed that option or at least to fully explain it's benefits to me when I showed interest in it.
I was inclined to just accept the car but after reading some of your compelling posts I think I will have to go to battle with the managers...so far they have indicated that I'm stuck with no pdc but haven't come out and said that yet. Wish me luck!!











_Modified by justme97 at 9:05 AM 4-27-2007_


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (justme97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *justme97* »_The only thing is that before signing the origional purchase order I specifically asked the salesperson why I might need pdc on a small car like the eos and she omited the fact that pdc protects the roof in our discustion. She told me it wasn't nesesary. I sort of feel like she fell down on the job, it was her job to tell me why I needed that option or at least to fully explain it's benefits to me when I showed interest in it.

that sums up the VW salespeople in _most_ of the dealerships (although *not*Turbo Paul or other dealers who come here and go above and beyond to give advice and lookup stuff for people not even _near_ them)
once again, for VW's benefit (with emphasis added):

_Quote, originally posted by *justme97* »_I sort of feel like she *fell down on the job, it was her job to tell me* why I needed that option or at least to fully explain it's benefits to me when I showed interest

VW won't even let a dealership _sell_ a Phaeton unless they spend $$$ on lots of special equipment to be able to service them, but they will let them sell an Eos without knowing how to operate the roof















My salesperson told me mine had a compass (repeatedly, among other things), and I was given compensation after a fight, because it was *also* on the window sticker (a legal document)-- but the salesperson was clueless. They wanted to do nothing to solve it, and I almost returned the car as my only resort until VWoA stepped in.
When I finally got my wife to visit and see it, he couldn't operate the roof. He never figured it out before we left, but I now think that the trunk divider was not down.
When I visited the first time with my brother, he leaned the seat forward for my brother to get in the back, and couldn't figure out how to make it sit back up straight (you pull the lever and push it slightly more forward, then back)
There were a whole series of things they didn't know-- in fact they learned about Krytox after I showed them the manual and the forums.
Now the last time I went in for service (5k oil), there _was_ a technician who had been Eos-trained, but my sales person told my wife, my brother, and myself *long stories about how Toyota did things* (at his old job)
In any case, you _may_ not have much recourse just on spoken agreements or discussions, but remember-- you have the *most power in bargaining before you give them your money or sign all the sales papers*
The *service dept on the other hand values repeat business*, but the salespeople often act like they are concerned only about the short term future, their commission, and not even VW's image.
Now the dealers in Europe, many who have been VW for a long time, are reported to act much differently,
but in the US -- _caveat emptor_
Sales http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
Eos itself http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Service dept :thumpup:
William


_Modified by kghia at 9:52 AM 4-27-2007_


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## The Fig (Mar 23, 2007)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (kghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kghia* »_Now the dealers in Europe, many who have been VW for a long time, are reported to act much differently,

From my single experience of dealers in the UK you could not be more wrong, they are just as clueless about the Eos. In fact for the sake of everyone on these forums, DO NOT get me started!
Jason


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (The Fig)*

Hey Guys:
Let's not go down the road of taking shots at sales staff (or service staff) at VW dealerships - it's a pointless exercise.
After all, the fact that everyone who is reading this has joined (or is browsing) a model-specific automobile forum is de facto proof that we here in the forum are "not your average customer". We are keeners, we're curious, we enjoy poking around our vehicles, and we enjoy learning as much as we can about them. 
If you fit that category of person - and I think almost everyone here does - then work it to the advantage of both yourself and your VW dealer sales and service staff: Let the staff at the dealer know that you are an enthusiast, and be as graceful and low-key as you possibly can be with the specialized knowledge that you have. It won't take long before the staff at your VW dealer pick up on the fact that you know a lot about the car, and they will then invite you into the "inner circle". Every car dealer has an "inner circle" of customers that they are extra-friendly with, simply because they know that those customers are great sources of information about whatever it is that their automotive hobby is focused on.
Lots of us over in the Phaeton forum have established great relationships with our VW dealers, even though the staff at the dealership may not know much more about the Phaeton than the fact that it is a very large VW that didn't sell too well. Heck, in most cases, the dealer staff ask us how we would like them to go about things, and in many cases, the dealer staff are comfortable enough with us to say (when it is appropriate) _"Hey, I'm not exactly sure how to proceed with this particular product order / repair / service - do you want us to try and get the answers, or would you prefer to get the answers yourself and let us know how you want us to proceed?"_ When your dealer starts treating you like that, you know you have established a great relationship with them.
However - as most all of us know, relationships like that don't get established if you are belligerent and critical. Respect is like wealth - it is one of those things that if directly sought, is rarely achieved.
Michael


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## justme97 (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (PanEuropean)*

Good point Michael. For those reasons you listed I actually take the blame myself orgionally for not doing my research about the pdc. The dealer did sence I knew what I was talking about and she held back on advice. But pdc was the one thing I didn't research properly and I only asked for her advisement on that one thing. I'm actually more mad that they bought the car before they said they were going to...cutting short my time to research the pdc. 
Either way I'll give the dealer the benefit of the doubt to rectify the situation and I will be glad to refer them in the future if they do. Till then I won't mention their name.


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## windrockwater (Apr 26, 2007)

*Wish i knew about PDC...*

Well i signed the lease agreement and gave a deposit on a locally available EOS and elected not to get the PDC because the dealer told me it was only for parralel parking. So over the last week i have been reading alot on this forum about all kinds of tips and tricks about the EOS and have found out about the trunk distance warning that it also serves. I called my dealer before taking delivery of the car and of course they tell me i am wrong and that they checked with VW blah blah. So i stop by and PROVE IT to the entire staff there by testing it on a showroom model that has PDC. Then i also notice they are proudly displaying a newspaper articel on the EOS and that article also says that the sensor prevents damage to the trunk!!!!!!!!!!
Yes it is caveat emptor and i despise the ignorance and even worse the BSing by salesmen. Why should i know more about a car from reading a forum than the salesman?
So i am getting the car today becuase i dont feel like waiting the 3 months or so i would have to wait to get one with PDC. This (agreeably minor) issue has really dampened my excitement about getting my new car today. I am hopeing a nice drive with the top down will change my tune.
by the way i requested that they waive repair fees if i damage the trunk from lack of the PDC but they would not accomodate me. i will probably repost my experience AFTER i get the car today.


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## archiea (Nov 29, 2006)

*Re: Wish i knew about PDC... (windrockwater)*

its unfortunate that it was a failure of the dealership. It almost makes it worse because you thought you did the right thing and lsiten to them. In the end, I think your habits will adapt to not having the pdc. I recall when I rented the car that I decided to not make a spectacle of the roof transformation so I was usually in a solitqary place when I raised/lowered the roof. So in the end you cant be as casual about the roof peration as those with PDC.. who cares...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (justme97)*

Hi Brennan:
Do keep in mind that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush - right now, you are *driving *an Eos that lacks PDC, but that's probably a more desirable situation than waiting for delivery of an Eos that does have PDC.








Plus, it might not be that difficult to do a factory-spec OEM PDC retrofit. I retrofitted OEM spec PDC to my 2002 Golf, and while it was not quite a simple enough task to do it in an afternoon, it wasn't the most difficult retrofit I have ever attempted. If the rear bumper cover on your existing Eos has markings on the inside of it showing where the cutouts should be for the PDC sensors, then doing an OEM retrofit might only require that you obtain the sensors, sensor holders, a controller, and make up a fairly simple wiring harness. It might be worth investigating if you really want the option. My guess is that if your dealer parts department helps you out a bit by cutting you a bit of a discount on the parts purchase, the total parts bill will be perhaps $800 to $1,000 total. Labour-wise, it would not be too difficult to do everything yourself, although it will be time-consuming.
Michael


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## justme97 (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (PanEuropean)*

A "bird in the hand is right". He said if he orders the car it will be 08 and there is no possible way he can do 6-speed standard and pdc. I was skeptical but if you read the post from turbo paul what he said is true. You also cannot do 6-speed standard + leather. No more loaded 6-speed eos!!
So I guess there's really not a lot I can ask my dealer to do. As far as my personal piece of mind I should have never made the post but I hope it helps others!!










_Modified by justme97 at 10:56 AM 4-28-2007_


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## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (justme97)*

I had to give up PDC in order to get my car probably 4 months earlier. I don't regret the decision. I'm fairly risk-tolerant (a kind way of saying absent-minded about the potential for damage) but I don't recall ever getting close to backing into a vehicle or opening the roof when too close to an object. And I've done some less-than-smart things opening the roof.








I guess the imoprtant thing to remember is that you need only 2' of rear clearance before opening the roof. If you're in tight quarters (like a small garage) where you run the risk of violating the 2' rule, maybe it's worth waiting. Personally, I'd never open the roof in the garage - I'd pull it onto the driveway to show off the roof mechaism to the neighbors. Over and over and over again....







I see you're in a parking garage (like me), pulling in forward (like me). I have about 18" of space at the rear of my stall, which should be enough to protect me even if someone comes driving by as I open the roof. If your stall has the same clearance, you'll be fine. Just remember to pull the car tight to maximize the space for the roof to open.
(Hmm...technically I didn't give PDC up - the dealer made the assumption that I would give up PDC in order to get my car four months earlier, and didn't ask me about it. The dealer was correct....)
As for opening the roof at a stop light, I've done it more than once but find that most lights I approach don't stay red for 30 seconds. 2' isn't guaranteed, though, so the lack of a PDC might limit careful people from doing it.


_Modified by neweosowner at 10:06 AM 4-28-2007_


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Risky with no pdc?? (neweosowner)*

Although I would gladly pay for the PDC at the offering price, I have gotten used to being more careful about when and where I open the roof. For instance, I often open the roof as I am approaching the car while leaving work and knowing this I always park at the outside perimeter of the lot and back in, so I am sure that no one will pull in too close behind me. 
Actually, I am more concerned about my wife doing damage as she does not use the car as often, as is far less concerned with details. Even though I have told her many times about the trunk compartment fold up cover needing to be in the lowered position, she subsequently asked me repeatedly why the roof would not open. After I pointed it out several more times, I think she has gotten it, but as you can imagine, I am concerned she will try to open it when she is parked too close to someone.
So a little extra care shiuld help, but as I siad before, I would glady pay the price for this option and I think it is worth every penny. I really think it would be in VW's best interest to offer this as a standard option, or at the least include it with the lux and sport packages. The only reason I can think that they do not, is that they do not make a high enough margin on it.


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