# HVAC Problems: Air recirculation Flap Positioning Motor (V113) not Working



## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Everyone, 

So after driving my new phaeton for 3 months i realized that my AC re-circulation does not work. When i press the re-circle button , it shows up in the screen. but i don't hear the sounds of the fan any different from de-activating the re-cirlce. i can smell the bad air from outside even though re-circle is activated. 

I believe that the re-circle should function like in other cars. more strong air flow and more colder. Just wondering if it's just the switch that needs to be changed or if there is a valve/door under the dash that I need to look into.


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## gtferrari (Aug 7, 2012)

I would assume being such a technical car, that any electronical failure whould cause a code. If you have a scanner that can read the vw specific codes you may be able to diagnose it that way. There might be a failure of the mechanical end of the actuator which may not cause a code. It could be as simple as the actuator rod has fallen of its pivot which i have seen on my other vehicles. I have even seen it where from the factory there wash flash material that had blocked the passage way. Somehow the part manufacturer and the tech who installed it on the assembly line missed it. 

Had you ever noticed the recirc working before?


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

You can see if the recirculation flap has closed by lifting the bonnet and looking at the intake vent at the base of the windscreen. 

Harry


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Harry, 

I'll take a look at the windsreen base. but do you hava diagram or link to be more specifc ? 

gtferrari, 

It never worked ever since i bought it . To be clear i'm the 2nd owener so i don't know if the first owener noticed it or not.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi, 

The air recirculation flap that controls the fan air intake from the cockpit is behind the fan, so it might not be that visible. The outside air flaps that allow or restrict fresh air intake are visible though, as Harry pointed out. 

Some of the forum photos are missing at the moment, but there are cached versions floating about online. 

If you suspect the flaps are stuck, then starting the HVAC System's self-test procedure using VCDS is probably the best way to get more information about what's going on. 

Chris 



*Air Flow (fresh air intake) flaps under the plenum chamber cover at rear of engine bay* (ignore the red arrows on Michael's photo) 












*Cross-section of HVAC unit*


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*No increase in noise when recirculating*

Hi Qatar, 
I agree with Chris that the flaps might be hard to see. Your best bet is to use VCDS for a scan and a self test of all flaps (as illustrated in another thread by Willem, but it's really quite straightforward: you open the AC controller and chose the testy mode, then sit back listening to each flap and dash vent being moved back and forth until it's finished and see if any DTC's are reported). Also, when I activate the recirculation manually I have never noticed an increase in noise or air flow nor a much colder air, so I suspect the Phaeton may not behave like other cars in this aspect. 
Stefano


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Hi Qatar,
You won’t hear much or even nothing when the fan speed is at a normal level, i.e. between 20 and 40%. You have to make the ventilation system a bit noisier by means of the fan speed, as well as the louvre vents, which are the most noisy components of the HVAC system.
But it is possible to test the functionality of the circulation button, in a fairly simple way. Following the below procedure, it is almost impossible not to notice any difference:



Press the A/C button to enter the A/C screen
Press “Extra functions” (or button with similar meaning) and disable the “Automatic Circulation”. We just don’t want any automatic action to interfere with our tests.
Next, go back to the main A/C screen and adjust the fan speed to max.
In addition, please press the two center arrows of both left and right columns, which will open the louvre vent covers.
Now wait 15 to 30 seconds to let the system stabilize.
Press the recirculation button on the dash panel (which should be illuminated) and listen carefully to the change in sound of the fans. The difference should be well audible.
Let it stabilize for about 15 seconds, then press the recirculation button. This will switch off the light.
It may take 5 to 20 seconds before you hear any change. This is because the engineers did not want the user to notice any sudden change in fan sound.


I recommend to do this test with the engine on and the gear selector switch in N or P position, because of the power use of both ignition and fans at full speed.

The proof of the pudding is to actually test whether the system automatically engages the circulation mode, even when the automatic circulation function is disabled. To do this, just repeat the procedure above, but instead of pressing the recirculation button, please use the wiper/wash function and give your windshield a good wash. You should hear the same type of change in pitch of the sound and you should not smell any detergent or solvent (mostly IPA – Isopropyl alcohol, not Indian Pale Ale) which is dissolved in the windshield washer fluid. Please note that this feature does not require the Auto Circulation function to be switched on. The HVAC will go in recirculation mode by default, even though there is visual feedback that the recirculation mode is engaged.
Exactly 60 seconds after using the wiper/wash function, the circulation will return to the normal mode.

Willem


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

*HVAC Problems: Air recirculation Flap Positioning Motor (V113)*

Hi all,

Doing the usual scans after experiencing problems with no cold air from the A/C I keep getting the following;

00716 Air Recirculation Flap Positioning Motor (v113) 005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting/Adaptation

00229 Refrigerant Pressure 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded

Had the A/C re-gassed to no avail. Please if someone can shed some light it would be appreciated prior to our jaunt across the continent!

Thanks in anticipation,
Stu


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Have you tried the adaptation procedure? It may well be that the flap motor has gone. They're not horribly expensive (surprisingly).


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

Stu,
I think the two DTC's may not be related. The flap issue is worth going through a full test and readaptation via VCDS, as described by Willem in another thread. It is a completely automatic (and rather entertaining, given that you hear every single flap motor being activated separately) procedure that you can access by opening the AC controller.
The second DTC suggests a leak of refrigerant, which triggered the compressor's automatic protection (it shuts down if the refrigerant pressure is too low for it to operate safely, because low refrigerant also implies a much reduced amount of lubricant to preserve the compressor's moving parts). You can verify this once again by using your VCDS, opening the AC controller and reading all the parameters' values. For each parameter, VCDS gives you both the actual value and the reference, "correct" value. One of the parameters records the number of compressor shut downs triggered by too low or too high refrigerant pressure: it will be interesting to find out if this was just one occurrence or more. 
In any case, a low refrigerant condition would be consistent with your experiencing occasional warm air. What is odd, though, is that you do not have an additional, fairly common, DTC indicating a refrigerant leak. It might be a very small one which triggered only one shut down.
Good luck
Stefano


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Thanks Stefano, 

I am still without cold air! 

I have cleared the DTC's and performed the adaptation process. A re-scan brings the faults back unless I have the air con set to "econ" It would appear that the rogue flap motor is in need of a replacement (just had to replace the left rear suspension level sensor) so the car must have reached "that time in its life". 

Still showing low refrigerant even though it has been re-gassed, any ideas? 

If it is the pressure sensor or compressor clutch, does anyone know how (in)accessible these components are? 

If the compressor shut down due to low refrigerant prior to being re-gassed, is there a procedure to bring it back to life that I am overlooking? 

Thanks 
Stu


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Can't offer any help.. but keep us posted. 

I have a similar concern about my V6. When the AC starts sometimes the vents open, but no air comes out... the fan sounds like it's running in a big echoing chamber (as though maybe there's a flap closed) and then usually the noise changes (flap opening?) and the air starts. It didn't used to do this... and the scan below makes me wonder. Maybe I need to exercise it a bit? Give a VCDS workout? 

The same car stopped blowing cold at all earlier in the summer - but it did need regassing. That has made it cold again and the error has gone. 

Anyhow, keep us posted. Which of yours is the problem on, older or younger car? 

Regards 

M


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

n968412L said:


> Can't offer any help.. but keep us posted.
> 
> I have a similar concern about my V6. When the AC starts sometimes the vents open, but no air comes out... the fan sounds like it's running in a big echoing chamber (as though maybe there's a flap closed) and then usually the noise changes (flap opening?) and the air starts. It didn't used to do this... and the scan below makes me wonder. Maybe I need to exercise it a bit? Give a VCDS workout?
> 
> ...


 Hi Mike, 

the problem is on the '06 one, the one I use the most, in fact I'm thinking of joining Le Club 1P shortly. Seriously thinking about a long wheelbase Caravelle!! We are considering spending more time in France and really need something more akin to a van! 

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Now where have I seen those Caravelle Business sliders and arm-rest cupholders before? :thumbup: 

Chris


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> in fact I'm thinking of joining Le Club 1P shortly.


 That would be a shame!


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

n968412L said:


> That would be a shame!


 Yes but, 

think of all those blingy Bentley bits in a well sorted 2.5td 270bhp auto bus with paddle shift 21" Bentley rims air suspension and every computer gizmo I can afford (not many at the mo)!! 

Basically it would be a Phaeton HiTop with half a V10 (half the problems)!! 

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Yeeeess..... I think I get it..... almost....


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Paximus said:


> Yeeeess..... I think I get it..... almost....


 Chris, 

If I have to dress like that I'll give it a miss  

Stu


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Stu: 

Fascinating - I have the same two problems on my car, except that in my case, the fault code for the recirculating flap motor sounds a bit more ominous. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl 
Part No: 3D0 907 040 H 
Component: Climatronic D1 2021 
Coding: 0000001 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000 
VCID: 234F99AAE1A345001C7 

2 Faults Found: 
00716 - Air recirculation Flap Positioning Motor (V113) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent 
00445 - Loss of Refrigerant 
000 - - - Intermittent 

I have tried to investigate just what is involved in replacing the V113 motor. I hope this can be done from the front of the firewall (i.e. from under the hood) and does not require removal of the dashboard. I have not quite figured it all out yet, I'll add information here as I discover it. 

I've changed the thread title to better reflect the nature of the problems we are discussing. 

Michael


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi all,
I can confirm that replacement of thr V113 actuator is performed from the front of the firewall. I had this actuator, together with the airflow flap V71 actuator replaced shortly after I purchased my Phaeton.
Basically you would have to disassemble the grille that covers the HVAC air intake and then you can access the actuator. 
I hope it helps.

Gabriel


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Thanks Gabriel, really nice of you to provide that information. I feel a lot more confident about getting the work done now - I would probably have deferred the repair if it had required removal of the instrument panel. 

Michael


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## dwasill (Oct 15, 2012)

I'm throwing errors on both V113 and V71, could you shed any more light on the replacement procedure and/or the cost of getting these fixed?

Thanks,


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Darryl:

I just had the recirculation flap motor replaced in my car, as a result of the fault codes that I posted earlier in this discussion (see post #19). I haven't picked the car up yet, but in discussion over the phone with the service manager and the tech, I was advised that it was a real PITA to replace that motor. 

I have done some digging around in that motor area myself in the past, and I can see how it would be a kind of nasty job to change that part out.

Anyway - now that my tech has done the work once, he is familiar with the process. So, if you want to jump on the Coho ferry and come up to Victoria, you are welcome to do so... 

Michael

*Detail from Work Order - Recirculation Flap Motor Replacement*


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## dwasill (Oct 15, 2012)

Thanks! I dug around that area yesterday & noticed it's definitely snug! Digging through the ELSA manuals it looks doable but a job for a nice clear day (which we see so few of round here)... I've got motors on order, I'll let you know how it goes :| 

Thanks again,


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## dwasill (Oct 15, 2012)

Actually looking at your bill did you only have 1 motor replaced? It looks like 71 and 113 are adjacent to each other so if I'm going through the trouble of disassembling half the car I image I'll replace them both.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Darryl:

I only had one motor replaced, because that was the only one causing trouble.

If you have fault codes on both motors, that raises the possibility that the problem might not be motor failure, it might be loose or dirty connections, or some other problem like that which is affecting the two parts that are next to each other... perhaps investigate that before buying the motors.

Michael


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## tonis555 (Sep 18, 2012)

Hi,

when the air recirculation flap have to open?  in my Phaeton it never opens  I believe thats the reason why I have fogging windows. But the VCDS nothing shows about flap fault  Maybe I could try to manually open it? 

any ideas?  



Paximus said:


> Hi,
> 
> The air recirculation flap that controls the fan air intake from the cockpit is behind the fan, so it might not be that visible. The outside air flaps that allow or restrict fresh air intake are visible though, as Harry pointed out.
> 
> ...


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Toni,
Read this post: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...itioning-basic-settings-on-Phaeton-using-VCDS
And try to perform the output test. It might solve the problem or show up the faults in case there are any.
Cheers.

Gabriel


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## tonis555 (Sep 18, 2012)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> Hi Toni,
> Read this post: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...itioning-basic-settings-on-Phaeton-using-VCDS
> And try to perform the output test. It might solve the problem or show up the faults in case there are any.
> Cheers.
> ...


Thanks Gabriel :thumbup:I'm running test it :laugh:


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hello again Toni,
If your windows are fogging, make sure that the upper cover of the interior mirror is free. If you look a it you will see a number of slots and a hole at the front. There, is where the cabin humidity sensor and the windscreen temperature sensor are.
If by some reason they are covered, it can lead to windows fogging too.

Gabriel


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## stefanuk (Jul 7, 2010)

I recently had a problem with my windows fogging which was cured by carrying out an adaptation of the HVAC flaps.

Stefan


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## tonis555 (Sep 18, 2012)

stefanuk said:


> I recently had a problem with my windows fogging which was cured by carrying out an adaptation of the HVAC flaps.
> 
> Stefan


can you write it step by step how to do it?


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## tonis555 (Sep 18, 2012)

I dont know how to normal run that output test  need some help

In the fault codes field I got this:



Control Module Part Number: 3D0 907 040 C 
Component and/or Version: Climatronic D1 0113
Software Coding: 0000001
Work Shop Code: WSC 30433
2 Faults Found:
01232 - A/C Compressor Regulator Valve (N280)
009 - Open or Short to Ground
00538 - Reference Voltage
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded


any ideas


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Toni,
It indicates that the battery voltage was low when you performed the scan. Therefore you should perform the test with the engine running.
I hope it helps.

Gabriel


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## tonis555 (Sep 18, 2012)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> Hi Toni,
> It indicates that the battery voltage was low when you performed the scan. Therefore you should perform the test with the engine running.
> I hope it helps.
> 
> Gabriel


when I was testing, the engine has running  with voltage seems everything ok  I have new both batterys


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

stefanuk said:


> I recently had a problem with my windows fogging...


Window fogging can also be caused by water accumulating in the evaporator drain pan, even if all the mechanical bits in the HVAC system are working properly. See this post: Accessing the evaporator drain / Liquid "sloshing" sound in cabin.

Window fogging can also be caused by the humidity sensor being blocked, perhaps by a parking permit hang tag, or a bit of dirt. See this post: Humidity Sensor.

Finally, before troubleshooting these complex issues, it is always a good idea to try resetting the AC system by pressing the AC hard-key, then pressing the RESET hard-key, then accepting the prompt that appears on the screen to reset the HVAC system settings.

Michael


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## dwasill (Oct 15, 2012)

Is the VCDS adaptation straight forward? Is it just a matter of simply running it?


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## bilmac (Oct 10, 2012)

*Air recirculation flap motor (V113) Advice please*

Hello Guys, I would appreciate your thoughts on this, thanks bilmac

Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 040 J
Component: Climatronic D1 2031 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 25413AD5EF7E6A3072A

1 Fault Found:
00716 - Air recirculation Flap Positioning Motor (V113) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent

Scans have shown this fault since I got the car last January, but as I did not notice anything amiss and as the Dealer had informed me they would have to remove the Dash to replace. I had decided to leave it alone even with the selling dealer willing to pay the 1058 euro quoted to replace.

This week I noticed the air con not as should be and asked Dealer to service, they report that Air recirculation flap motor (V113) needs to be replaced as the air con will not work properly without it.

Can someone confirm the dash has to come out to replace this motor.

What are the chances I will have a creaking dash after the job?

Would this motor have an effect on the air con? its seems fine now that they have serviced it


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Bilmac,
I had the v113 motor replaced shortly after I purchased my phaeton and there was no need to remove the dashboard. You can access it from the engine bay side after removing the plenum cover and the air conditioning unit outer cover.

Gabriel


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi William:

Please see this discussion, which contains a lot of information about the Air Recirculation Flap Motor: 

HVAC Problems: Air recirculation Flap Positioning Motor (V113) not Working

I had this part replaced in my car, because I had exactly the same fault message you are seeing. The main problem arising from this fault was that the windshield would sometimes fog up as a result of water collecting in the plenum (due to heavy rain, or going through a car wash, or similar), and because the flap was not operating as it should, the car was not getting fresh (i.e. "dry") outside air - it was recirculating cabin air through the plenum (that had water in it), and that was causing the occasional fog-up. 

I had the motor replaced. My Phaeton tech told me that it was a massive PITA for him to replace it, and it took him much more time to do the job than the flat-rate book allowed. It cost me $450 plus a pretty large tip (to cover the extra labour) to get the problem solved, and the car was in the shop for about a week waiting for the part to arrive. 

It is also worth mentioning that quite a bit of disassembly is required to get to this motor, so, unless you have absolute confidence in your technician and you find that you are having problems as a result of the flap motor not working... I would leave it alone and tolerate the fault.

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:*

Related discussion - Air recirculation flap motor (V113) Advice please

Michael


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## bilmac (Oct 10, 2012)

bilmac said:


> Hello Guys, I would appreciate your thoughts on this, thanks bilmac
> 
> Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
> Part No: 3D0 907 040 J
> ...


Again,Thanks to Gabriel and Michael, I am satisfied that there is no need to remove Dash, but also agree not an easy fix, So as Air Con now seems to work perfect, I have decided to leave it alone for now, Thanks again. Bilmac


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi William:

That sounds like a reasonable decision - to just sit tight and not do anything about the recirculation flap motor unless you experience problems as a result of the flap not working in the future.

The car is reporting that the flap motor problem is 'intermittent'. Strictly speaking, an 'intermittent' fault is a fault that was present at one time (that time could be as short as just a few seconds) in the past, but was not present at the time the diagnostic scan was carried out.

In your case, this might mean that at one time (and one time only), the flap did not operate as it should, or it could mean that the flap motor is slowly wearing out and is not able to correctly position the flap 100% of the time. It is, however, entirely possible that the flap motor is correctly positioning the flap 99% of the time... or, it is moving the flap to within 1% of the desired position 100% of the time, but not quite achieving perfection with the last 1% of the movement.

You can do a little bit of further diagnosis on your own, by starting the car and pressing the 'air recirculation' button on the dashboard, and listening to determine if you can hear a change in the nature of the airflow when you repeatedly tap the air recirculation button at 15 second intervals (the air recirculation button is the button with the semi-circular arrow on it, immediately to the right of the red 4-way flasher button).

Assuming that the flap motor fails completely in the future, the consequences are not especially severe. If it fails in the fully open position, you will always have outside air coming into the system (that's the normal operating mode), and that won't pose much of a problem given the prevailing temperatures in Ireland. But, you might experience infiltration of rainwater into the HVAC plenum when the car is parked outside (the flap normally closes when the car is shut down), and this could lead to unexpected fogging up of the windshield, especially if a sharp turn or sudden stop is made when operating the car.

If the flap motor fails in the fully closed position, you will not have any fresh air flow into the car, all the cabin air will be recirculated all the time. As long as no-one inside the car smokes tobacco, this won't present a huge problem. If anyone smokes, the cigarette smoke will be recirculated over the evaporator, and that will result in a persistent unpleasant smell coming from the system, even months after the last cigarette was smoked.

I get the impression that the recirculation flap motor is a part that is prone to failure after 7 to 10 years of use, and I suspect that we will see more reports of this fault in the future as the fleet ages.

If the flap motor does fail, it will become very important to keep the two evaporator drain holes at the bottom of the air conditioner plenum clean and free-flowing, to allow any water that might infiltrate to easily drain out onto the pavement under the car. I plan to clean out these two drains on my car later this summer, I will create an illustrated how-to post sometime in the next 8 weeks.

Michael


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## bilmac (Oct 10, 2012)

PanEuropean said:


> Hi William:
> 
> That sounds like a reasonable decision - to just sit tight and not do anything about the recirculation flap motor unless you experience problems as a result of the flap not working in the future.
> 
> ...


Thanks Michael, will carry out tests as you suggest, seems the odds are with me as I do not smoke or allow smoking in my car. bilmac


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## MAXRAR (Jul 18, 2013)

*V113*

Hi, had my v113 changed, took a gamble bought one of ebay for a Audi A8 for £17, labour to fit 1Hour at VW Audi specialist. Labour £75 inc VAT. I realised they cold change the V133 without fully stripping down unit under bonnet, they have special small rachet for removing screws for cover and vi33 motor removal.Yes the £17 servo worked fine, bit of a gamble


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

n968412L said:


> When the AC starts sometimes the vents open, but no air comes out... the fan sounds like it's running in a big echoing chamber (as though maybe there's a flap closed) and then usually the noise changes (flap opening?) and the air starts. It didn't used to do this...


My AC started to do just that couple of months ago, AC starts with no air for few seconds then air comes out, in these few seconds of no air the sound is like a jet just started on a run way for take off (at least it's not an animal sound for a change!).

The HVAC scan gave these faults:

Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 040 G
Component: Climatronic D1 1132 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 224BE670FE0C4C3159F-5140

5 Faults Found:
00711 - Left Footwell Flap Positioning Motor (V108) 
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
*00716 - Air recirculation Flap Positioning Motor (V113) 
014 - Defective*
*01232 - A/C Compressor Regulator Valve (N280) 
009 - Open or Short to Ground*
01341 - Control Module in Instrument Panel On Comfort CAN (J285) 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00477 - Control Module; Display & Input; Comfort CAN; Front (J523) 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent


The recalculation mode is not working (Upper air flow flap froze on open position, I smell every thing that's out there on the street).

Tried the readaptaion course, started the process and the front vents wooden covers stopped halfway (not fully open nor fully shut) which was a first for me!

Regards


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Just noticed that the A/C stops blowing air when gear is in reverse! Comes right back once on drive!


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Selecting reverse gear will enforce recirculation mode. since one of the flaps is not working, you are not getting fresh nor recirculated air. 

There are two recirculation/fresh air flaps. they work in sync. if one is not working you maynot get any air at all even if the blower is running.


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Thanks Ahmad. That's exactly whats going on. Poor kids are getting a fresh dose of early traffic fumes at the way to school.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Bindaham said:


> Thanks Ahmad. That's exactly whats going on. Poor kids are getting a fresh dose of early traffic fumes at the way to school.


You're welcome. 

At least there are no V10 TDIs on our roads! Otherwise kids skin tone will change :laugh:


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

You got that right 

For all it's worth, I tried adapting the flaps to no avail as the woden covers lowered to the middle and the adaptation process ended there.

Here's the mvb that I got for both V113 & V71:


Address 08: Auto HVAC (3D0 907 040 G)

13:13:00 Group 018: Flap Motor *V113*/G142: Recirculation - Dash Panel Air Intake
156.0 Current Value 
156.0 Specified Value 
156.0 Minimum Position Open
183.0 Maximum Position Blocked


13:15:05 Group 017: Flap Motor *V71*/G113: Outside Air Flow / Backpressure - Under Hood Plenum
196.0 Current Value 
197.0 Specified Value 
67.0 Minimum Position Blocked
197.0 Maximum Position Open


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

I think if the problem is mechanical or electrical the flap won't move even if you do the adaptation process.

I recommend to interfere manually and close the flap to circulation mode forever. You don't need fresh air supply in Kuwait's dusty hot heavy traffic.

In my opinion, it doesn't worth to waste time and money for an old car like ours. 

Sent from my Google Nexus using Tapatalk


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I agree, flap adaptation won't work, it never does for sticky flaps. However, if you can dig far enough to see the electrical connection to the flap motor, zap it with a 12 volt supply. If you read the various threads on flap motors, several people have dismantled them, and hitting them with a good 12v un-sticks them. I think it's mostly been done with the flap motors on the motorized wood panels, but it's worth a try with the others, I'd guess they're a similar design. My centre panel sticks occasionally, and I've now developed a technique to get it working again, I just use the air adjuster rocker switch to close it off then rock it on and off continually, eventually it starts working again, usually after about a dozen tries.

I have to disagree, however, about spending time & money on our cars, despite them being 11 years old now. Mine still looks and runs like a $100k vehicle and I have no reason to expect it not to last for many more years if I look after it, and whatever I spend in maintenance is almost certainly going to be a lot less than I'd spend in depreciation on a newer, equivalent vehicle.


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Kuwaity said:


> I recommend to interfere manually and close the flap to circulation mode forever.


I thought about it since I'm always on recirculation mode anyways, yet I tried (not very hard) to do just that when I was cleaning the MAFs but it seemed stuck and I didn't want to push further fearing the risk of breaking something. Should I push down harder?


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

invisiblewave said:


> I agree, flap adaptation won't work, it never does for sticky flaps. However, if you can dig far enough to see the electrical connection to the flap motor, zap it with a 12 volt supply. If you read the various threads on flap motors, several people have dismantled them, and hitting them with a good 12v un-sticks them. I think it's mostly been done with the flap motors on the motorized wood panels, but it's worth a try with the others, I'd guess they're a similar design. My centre panel sticks occasionally, and I've now developed a technique to get it working again, I just use the air adjuster rocker switch to close it off then rock it on and off continually, eventually it starts working again, usually after about a dozen tries.
> 
> I have to disagree, however, about spending time & money on our cars, despite them being 11 years old now. Mine still looks and runs like a $100k vehicle and I have no reason to expect it not to last for many more years if I look after it, and whatever I spend in maintenance is almost certainly going to be a lot less than I'd spend in depreciation on a newer, equivalent vehicle.


Will try to do that this weekend and see how it goes.

I agree with you, I love this car! I truly do.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Salah, I don't recommend forcing the flap. 

Guys I love this car more than anyone. Since I bought it used (7,000 miles I think) it never felt like having new car therefore I don't think I'll keep it for long time. The plan is to use it until its dead then get new one 😁

I do have a couple of cars/bikes that I have no problem spending resources on them. A new Phaeton is definitely will be a part of the collection. But not the current one....


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

I don't think our cars will die, they sure get sick a lot though, just like the real estate market  .

I personally envested a great deal of time and money in my car to have it in a decent condition so much so that it's my daily driver car. I'm getting used to the frustration once a problem occurs thanks to your help and that of the guys here.

Good luck with the new Phaeton


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Bindaham said:


> Flap Motor *V113*/G142: Recirculation - Dash Panel Air Intake
> 
> 
> Flap Motor *V71*/G113: Outside Air Flow / Backpressure - Under Hood Plenum



Another observation on the access point to the flap motors.

I was under the impression that V113 was accessible from the under hood plenum area as few stated earlier, but as it's stated in the scan the the location of that motor is in the *Dash Panel Air Intake*!

A bit perplexed about this issue.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

The second flap location is a bit scary. It is integrated into the blower unit. The good thing you don't need to touch anything inside the car.


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

I certainly hope so


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

The actual location of the V113 motor is shown in the SSP drawing (reproduced below).

The workshop manual says that you remove the air inlet flap (the one visible with the plenum chamber cover removed), then underneath that remove the blower assembly and the recirculating flap cover, then finally the motor V113 is revealed for removal.

Looks like a job for a dexterous miner.

Chris



*Air Conditioner motor locations*








image (c) volkswagen


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Paximus said:


> Looks like a job for a dexterous miner.


Thanks Chris,

I took a look at the concerned SSP too many times I guess but the location stated in the scan result threw me off. 

I'm not that dexterous but I wonder if the job would require any VW special tools!

Regards,


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Salah,

The only special tool mentioned is a T15 screwdriver having a 250mm reach. This is to remove the air circulation flap cover bolts.

Chris


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Seems this gentleman thinks otherwise!



croatvw said:


> NOT SO EASY!!!
> 
> VW MASTER TECHNICIAN
> 
> ...


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Well guess what! I'm with my techs now who managed to open, replace and put back every thing related to V71 & V113 in only 2 hours! Nasty job due to the narrow space but was done in two hours!


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Adaptation can't be done, tech says V108 presisting fault is the reason! :what:

00711 - Left Footwell
Flap Positioning Motor (V108) 
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I think the V108 was the one that failed on mine.


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Very frustrating. No other way around it, we'll have to dig that motor out. It's a different type of motor than the V71/113 type as I gathered. We'll see how it goes


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Just to make sure, is part number "*7L0907511AJ*" is right for the V108 motor that I need?


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Nice work Salah! It's good to see some techs working on Phaetons outside the dealer..

So the recirculation doesn't work after installation of new motors? or just not closing/opening at 100%?


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Thanks Ahmad, It was a pain to move around the tiny space but I was amazed by the speed of things that in a couple of hours all was done.

The plenum flap visibly works as it should and no faults are there for both V71 and V113, however the V108 persistent fault is not allowing the adaptation process to be completed! The vents covers stop at mid position (not fully shut or open) so there goes the adaptation process.

I went today to the dealer and they couldn't find a part number for that V108! I'll dig it out and check what's printed on it until then there's no airflow even when the A/C is working.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Salah, take a look at the Jim Ellis VW website, they have part numbers on there. Looking at the diagram, I think the part number for the V108 might be 3D0959311


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

That might be the one! I wonder why VW doesn't mention V108 in the discerption like the other motors?

Will check on it indeed

Much appreciated


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I don't know, it's a pain in the ass. Even on that site it doesn't mention V108 but it mentions the others.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

The 'Control motor for left footwell flap V108' location is shown in the SSP drawing above.

There are only two part numbers used for flap motors in the HVAC unit, as shown in the following drawings.


*3D0 959 311 servomotors are labelled '47':*








image (c) volkswagen



*4D0 820 511 servomotors are labelled '45':*








image (c) volkswagen


Wouldn't it be nice if manufacturers made these complex modules in the same way that they make modern laser printers, with sub-modules that pull out for replacement on drawer runners!

Chris


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Thanks Chris for confirming the part number for the V108 motor. Drawer runners, I second that


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

I just scanned the HVAC and got a new fault that I saw for the first time! So now besides the V108, here comes V212:


00064 - Left B-pillar/Footwell Shut-Off Flap Motor (*V212*) 
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation

I tried erasing the faults but they come back!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Chris, do you know which motor is the V205 on that diagram, and where it would be located in the car?


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

invisiblewave said:


> Chris, do you know which motor is the V205 on that diagram, and where it would be located in the car?


The V205 motor is in the dash, not on the HVAC unit which the diagram is for. Check page 44 in the SSP 271 for the location of all the motors.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

invisiblewave said:


> Chris, do you know which motor is the V205 on that diagram, and where it would be located in the car?


V205 controls the division of air between the right-side dash panel vent and the front right door's defrost vent. It should be right behind the right-side dash panel vent.

Jason


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Thanks. Anybody know how to get to it?


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

invisiblewave said:


> Thanks. Anybody know how to get to it?


Not too bad, it looks like... just have to remove the glovebox.










...


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Thanks a lot Jason! Certainly easier than most of the other accursed flap motors. Given the current condition of my transmission, however, I'm not sure it's going to be worth my time.....


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Last night I scanned the P (not for HVAC in particular), yet I had unusual *11 *faults all together! :sly:



01273 - Fresh Air Blower (V2) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent

00019 - Motor for Warm-Air Flap (V198) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent

00022 - Motor for Warm-Air Flap; Center Console Rear Right (V201) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent

00023 - Motor for Warm-Air Flap; Center Console Rear Left (V202) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent

00024 - Motor for Cold-Air Flap; Center Console Rear Right (V203) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent

00025 - Motor for Cold-Air Flap; Center Console Rear Left (V204) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent

*00716 - Air recirculation Flap Positioning Motor (V113) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent
*
01274 - Air Flow Flap Positioning Motor (V71) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent

00064 - Left B-pillar/Footwell Shut-Off Flap Motor (V212) 
014 - Defective

00057 - Right B-pillar/Footwell Shut-Off Flap Motor (V211) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent

00041 - Indirect Ventilation Flap Motor (V213) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent


The strange thing is that I *replaced * motor (V113) with a new one few months back :screwy:

I erased the faults, drove for a couple of miles and scanned again, they all came back! 

The A/C works well, but last Thursday afternoon there was a surge in the heat and after I just drove for few minutes while the A/C was on (full bar), the air blow suddenly stopped all together (while the bar still in full range) then the air started blowing again then stopped then came again and so on and so forth for the short distance to where I was going to. 

The time span between the off and on of air blow was around 5 seconds or so. That was the first time in my ownership of the car that I've encountered this.

I left the car sitting for a day then started to use it again, that problem didn't come back for 5 days now! The temperature is till around 38C - 100F in the afternoon. 

I wonder if anyone had the same issue!

Regards


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

This is remarkably similar behaviour to mine. It started with the centre vent not working, then after it came back from the dealer, the demist flap (V205) started showing bad adaptation, the floor vent was intermittent, and the V71 was showing no adaptation. I'm also getting the thing where the air suddenly stops or goes to low then comes back on again. I dismantled the dash to change the centre vent and did a lot of messing around with the demist flap motor while I had the glove box off. There was absolutely no problem with it, despite it throwing a code. I took it out, tested it, put it back and watched it moving, but it still won't adapt. On investigation of the V71, I discovered where the leaking vacuum line must have been that the dealer "repaired". Two of the bolts on top of the a/c inlet housing were loose (and I mean one was standing up by about 2 or 3 mm), the vent flap itself was broken where it attaches to the flap motor collar, and the V71 didn't appear to be moving. I haven't got any further yet because removal of that inlet surround requires removal of that windscreen piece that's notoriously tricky to get off. Anyway, the V71 is very simple to check, you can do it by eye, I think that big a/c flap should close when you hit the recirculation button.


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

I'm deliberating taking out the HVAC unit out and install a small window A/C unit in 

The plenum flap works as it should when I checked it, yet that "intermittent" word leaves you wanting to install a camera near by to see what goes on while driving.

Summer officially began around here and I just hope the A/C continues to work as well as it's working now.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yeah, my suspicion has been on the a/c controller. Flaps that I know are definitely working are still throwing codes. The only other possibility I can think of is that the comms part of the tiny circuit in the flap motor is bad. Like you, I decided not to worry about it until it stops working.

Can you describe the behaviour of that big plenum flap for me? Does it open and close with the re-circulation button? I want to trouble-shoot it at some point, but I'm not sure exactly how it should work.


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Yes it does, I presume it's open by default but once I press the re-circulation button it closes. I always press that button, the public transportation busses in particular still use diesel and the fumes annoys me a lot.


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