# Best CAM Setup for N/A 2.0 8v?



## mk3vento20 (May 3, 2009)

I'm currently working on my 2.0 ABA and I am wondering what the best, decent N/A Setup would be.
My Quesion is, running N/A, and not planning to boost at all in the future...
Should I go with a 266° or a 260°/256° ??
After upgrading the cam, would I need anything aside from a 3.5 Bar FPR?
I would assume that I may need some 24lb injectors and a fuel pump... but I dont know if the injectors and fuel pump would be necessary?
What do you think? Is there a better setup for the 8v 2.0?
Any advise would be awesome.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: Best CAM Setup for N/A 2.0 8v? (mk3vento20)*

Your question is far to vague, "best" meaning what? High end HP? Driveability? I think you should do more research, and or reading of other people's threads that have modified ABA's. You need to know what your overall goal is.
You also will very unlikely need new injectors, FP and regulator. That money would be better spent elsewhere. The stock stuff will do.


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## mk3vento20 (May 3, 2009)

*Re: Best CAM Setup for N/A 2.0 8v? (secondgen)*

Well, if anybody was going for a CAM upgrade, I would assume that it would be for HP.
A Car would already be "driveable."
Your response is much too close minded.
This is a daily driven car.. I just want to give it more power. Not looking to make the top end or bottom end any more special... Just looking for a good overall cam to boost power a little bit.
Also I was asking for advice... not criticism. If you dont want to help then you dont have to say anything...
I have looked all throughout this forum and if you can find me a post that is slightly relevant to what I am asking... then my bad.. 
so... anybody else have any ADVICE for a good setup???
It seems like the split profile cams are better for low end... but im looking for an average bump throughout the RPM range.
Would a 268 be too big for an N/A setup? 268/260?? 


_Modified by mk3vento20 at 7:51 AM 5-6-2009_


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: Best CAM Setup for N/A 2.0 8v? (mk3vento20)*

I wouldn't bother with anything less than a 268, you'd hardly notice the difference. Autotech's 270, TT268 or Neuspeed equivalent would be good choices. I ran a 270 for a couple years and loved it. 
My response was average for a new user coming into a technical forum with a vague question without any particulars for what the car's used for or what other modifications the car has. My comment was completely relevant, I could've told you a TT 288* was the "best" cam, but it'd be useless in a daily driven street car especially without other modifications to take full advantage of the cam you chose.
What else is done to your motor, do you do more around town driving or highway? More info would be helpful in helping you decide on what cam would best suit you.


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## mk3vento20 (May 3, 2009)

*Re: Best CAM Setup for N/A 2.0 8v? (secondgen)*

Awesome..
Yeah I was looking at Bahn Brenner cams but they said that the 268 would be a good cam for a boosted platform.. so I was wondering if it would be too much.
In your opinion, does Autotech make a better cam than Bahn Brenner?
I drive it on the highway about 90 miles round trip two days a week... So its mostly driven in town..
Right now I have a Cold air intake, MSD Blaster SS Ignition Coil and some pretty hefty plug wires and trying to find a decent Distributor.
Looking to get either a Profire Ignition module or an MSD 6-Series ignition box.. a header and catback eventually.
Im just doing it peice by peice. I have a machined head waiting to be put together...
The 268 or 270 would need HD Valve springs and retainers..
And you're saying that I dont need to upgrade my injectors or fuel pump?

_Modified by mk3vento20 at 8:17 AM 5-6-2009_


_Modified by mk3vento20 at 8:18 AM 5-6-2009_


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk3vento20* »_Well, if anybody was going for a CAM upgrade, I would assume that it would be for HP.
A Car would already be "driveable."
Your response is much too close minded.
This is a daily driven car.. I just want to give it more power. Not looking to make the top end or bottom end any more special... Just looking for a good overall cam to boost power a little bit.
Also I was asking for advice... not criticism. If you dont want to help then you dont have to say anything...
I have looked all throughout this forum and if you can find me a post that is slightly relevant to what I am asking... then my bad.. 
so... anybody else have any ADVICE for a good setup???
It seems like the split profile cams are better for low end... but im looking for an average bump throughout the RPM range.
Would a 268 be too big for an N/A setup? 268/260?? 



You need to calm the down pal. Secondgen's response was the same response I would have given you had I seen this first.
Judging by your questions, and the different cam profiles you are throwing out here for consideration, tells me you don;t quite grasp the differences in durations and how they will effect your torque curve. Go and read THIS. 
Without getting into too much detail, you could get away with running an AUtotech 270* and be perfectly happy with it. LSA is high enough where you can run your stock chip without having to raise the idle to smooth it out. But with the lift that cam provides, I would just go ahead and step up to a Techtonics 276* duration and cut the fat. Idle will be a little choppy at stock idle, but can be smoothed with aan ECU chip upgrade (which you would need, unless you already have one). On the dyno, using an OBDII ABA, the 276* showed more torque over the entire rpm band over the 270* profile. 
Also, dont forget that you will need new gaskets, cam seal, and 8 new lifters for the new camshaft. Being that you are OBDI, your head already has dual valve springs from the factory and do not require an upgrade to accommodate the lift of the cam lobes.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Bahn brenner resells Techtonic cams. Techtonics has two 268* profiles.....an NA profile with 110* LSA's, and a reverse split duration 268/260 for turbo motors. 
You do NOT need to touch your FPR or injectors either.


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## mk3vento20 (May 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

Haha I'm calm.








Thanks for the info guys! If anybody has any other suggestions feel free to spit them out.
I dont have a chip at the moment, but I have seen the Q-Chips by AutoTech. Would the Motronic Q-Chip be a good one?


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

My suggestion (going off the fact that your motor is bone stock)
TT276* cam
New lifters, cam seal, valve cover gasket, upper intake manifold gasket
Techtonics ECU chip
Techtonics cat-back exhaust
High flow panel filter replacement (or you can just buy a cone filter and attach it to the MAF)
Those should bring you up into the 116-119whp range. Power from 3000-5500rpms
Again, the OBDI German head comes with dual valve springs capable of a .450" lift. No need to upgrade unless you plan on holding revs past 7500rpms for extended periods of time. But considering your head wont flow the air necessary to make any usable power past 7000rpms, I would worry about it. You do not need to touch the FPR or the injectors at all. 
Also, I suggest you search the archives in the 2.0 forum. All this info, plus more, is available for you to read through.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: Best CAM Setup for N/A 2.0 8v? (mk3vento20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk3vento20* »_In your opinion, does Autotech make a better cam than Bahn Brenner?

Quality's the same, just different grinds. As T said, BBM sells Techtonics Tuning cams.

_Quote, originally posted by *mk3vento20* »_Looking to get either a Profire Ignition module or an MSD 6-Series ignition box.. a header and catback eventually.

Don't bother, for what you're doing, the stock ignition is fine.

_Quote, originally posted by *mk3vento20* »_The 268 or 270 would need HD Valve springs and retainers..

Neither of those require HD springs or aftermarket retainers.
And you can leave your fuel system alone, the stock pump and FPR will work fine.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: Best CAM Setup for N/A 2.0 8v? (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_

Neither of those require HD springs or aftermarket retainers.



Unless he was OBDII.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_My suggestion (going off the fact that your motor is bone stock)
TT276* cam
New lifters, cam seal, valve cover gasket, upper intake manifold gasket
Techtonics ECU chip
Techtonics cat-back exhaust
High flow panel filter replacement (or you can just buy a cone filter and attach it to the MAF)
Those should bring you up into the 116-119whp range. Power from 3000-5500rpms

Agreed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mk3vento20 (May 3, 2009)

*Re: Best CAM Setup for N/A 2.0 8v? (secondgen)*

Thanks a lot guys.
I really appreciate it. This is all plenty to get me started.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: Best CAM Setup for N/A 2.0 8v? (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
Unless he was OBDII.









Yea, yea I know, I was assuming he'd read:

_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_Also, dont forget that you will need new gaskets, cam seal, and 8 new lifters for the new camshaft. Being that you are OBDI, your head already has dual valve springs from the factory and do not require an upgrade to accommodate the lift of the cam lobes.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Hows the coupe coming? You finish that motor yet? (I lost track of your progress thread)


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

You don't have to look far, you're in the right forum...


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## mk3vento20 (May 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_My suggestion (going off the fact that your motor is bone stock)
TT276* cam
New lifters, cam seal, valve cover gasket, upper intake manifold gasket
Techtonics ECU chip
Techtonics cat-back exhaust
High flow panel filter replacement (or you can just buy a cone filter and attach it to the MAF)


I did a search on Techtonics.
The only OBDI chip I found was the Techtonics EPROM Cam version for Golf and Jetta III 2.0L 1993-1995 OBD I
Is this the one you are talking about?


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

yes. You could spend all your money at that site and build a pretty fun-to-drive motor. 
You wont see real power until you start doing work to your head....namely porting it. Thats where the power is.


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

convert to solid lifters, and run a tt 306


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

on a stock head in a daily driven car? no way.


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

why not








I am mildly kidding since there will be lots of other bottlenecks in his motor, but its really not that undriveable a cam. From my experiences I don't think any cams with less than like .430 lift are really worth it on an 8v.
not to mention motronic would do a lot better job handling the idle than CIS


_Modified by chrisbmx68 at 4:26 PM 5-6-2009_


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## mk3vento20 (May 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (chrisbmx68)*

Haha. I would like to avoid blowing my motor if at all possible.


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## mk3vento20 (May 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

So what would happen if I installed the Cam EPROM before I install the new head?


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

It would raise the idle, and probably make you run a little rich at higher rpm, it wont be ideal but shouldn't be detrimental.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk3vento20* »_So what would happen if I installed the Cam EPROM before I install the new head?


It'll be fine.


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## Sciroccoracer7 (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

I would look at the web 279. I'm running that in my wife's car with an intake, header back exhaust and a tt od1 cam chip. It make a perfect daily driver.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

FYI....."279" is their grind number, not the duration number. Duration-wise, it's got 222* @ .050" valve lift (maybe a 262* advertised duration), 110* center lines, and a healthy .441" lift.


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## Sciroccoracer7 (Apr 28, 2005)

I know what it is. But thanks for the info.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

that post wasnt directed to you....someone posted after you and I was responding to that. Then they deleted it shortly after.


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## Uberocco83 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Best CAM Setup for N/A 2.0 8v? (mk3vento20)*

My experience with this engine and cams:
260: awesome daily driver, even with no chip.
266: pretty good daily, better with chip.
268: starts loosing low end but is fun with a chip and close gear ratio.
276: awesome in a counterflow/aba engine(never ran in a full aba)
288: nasty, not something you can slap in a stock engine to fully enjoy.
293: same as above but too big for the street and that says a lot cause........I like 'em big.
All of those cams were TT with the exception of the 293 which was a Cat. Anything bigger than a 266 in a MK3 chasis and you will need a close ratio gearbox unlike the Mk3 box which is tall. 276 and up and a 4k or 3.94 gearbox will be better with the heavier cars. Your stock fuel system is fine, upgrading is not necessary just make sure it works properly. Ive seen obd1's running 6psi of boost on stock fuel and management run well.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

My cam experiences in my MKIII ABA:
264: EuroSpec Sport: Lumpy idle, healthy lift. Nice DD cam
266: Techtonics: pretty smooth idle. Nice DD cam
268: OEM VW (same as TT 268): Low end loss. Had the cam in for a day and swapped the 264 back in
268/260: Techtonics: Another great cam. Great for low-mid torque. Falls off @ 5000rpms
270: Autotech: Same as the TT266. Great DD cam. Made 127whp with it
276: Techtonics: Favorite cam of the bunch. I advance it 4* for daily use. Like it better than the 266/270. Made 135whp with it
288: Techtonics: Cam doesnt come on till 4000rpms, then hang on! NOT a good street cam in a MKIII chassis unless you are running a 2Y trans. Squeezed out 142whp with it. 


_Modified by tdogg74 at 8:58 AM 5-12-2009_


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## 2LiterWeapon (May 8, 2009)

*Re: Best CAM Setup for N/A 2.0 8v? (mk3vento20)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4398864


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_My cam experiences in my MKIII ABA:
264: EuroSpec Sport: Lumpy idle, healthy lift. Nice DD cam
266: Techtonics: pretty smooth idle. Nice DD cam
268: OEM VW (same as TT 268): Low end loss. Had the cam in for a day and swapped the 264 back in
268/260: Techtonics: Another great cam. Great for low-mid torque. Falls off @ 5000rpms
270: Autotech: Same as the TT266. Great DD cam. Made 127whp with it
276: Techtonics: Favorite cam of the bunch. I advance it 4* for daily use. Like it better than the 266/270. Made 135whp with it
288: Techtonics: Cam doesnt come on till 4000rpms, then hang on! NOT a good street cam in a MKIII chassis unless you are running a 2Y trans. Squeezed out 142whp with it. 

_Modified by tdogg74 at 8:58 AM 5-12-2009_


Trav, dont you think that anything over the TT266(AT270) would start to suffer if the OP has a stock Head / Intake Mani ?


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

No, unless he doesnt ever rev past 3000rpms. The slight hit in sub-3000rpm torque running a larger cam over a stock cam is made up for the ability to run WAY stronger past 4500rpms. Of course, head work does help in all cases. 
a 276 in a stock OBDII head makes ~5whp more than a 270.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_No, unless he doesnt ever rev past 3000rpms. The slight hit in sub-3000rpm torque running a larger cam over a stock cam is made up for the ability to run WAY stronger past 4500rpms. Of course, head work does help in all cases. 
a 276 in a stock OBDII head makes ~5whp more than a 270. 

Does it? thats pretty good, BUT, does it create a huge peak HP curve Vs the AT270


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (redzone98)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redzone98* »_
Does it? thats pretty good, BUT, does it create a huge peak HP curve Vs the AT270 



AnyOne ?


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

i dont get the question....


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_i dont get the question....


Sorry ill explain;
On a Stock Setup, ( Stock Intake Mani, Stock Header)
Does the TT276 create a 'peaky' gain of 5 hp Vs the AT270
In other words, we know the TT276 will produce more Peak HP than the 270, but is the area under the dyno curve broader with the 270, on a stock setup?
your motor is a far cry from a stock OBD2 head, so its hard to use your setup as a baseline


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

yes


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_yes


Yes ... ?
Please Explain 

_Modified by redzone98 at 2:11 PM 6-10-2009_

PLeaaase 


_Modified by redzone98 at 8:25 AM 6-11-2009_


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

i shouldnt have said yes, what i should have said is "depends on the flow characteristics of the head. A stock OBDII head saw more power all over with a 276 over the 270. a tad more torque low end and it didnt die off as quick past 4500 like the 270 did...thus more peak hp.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_i shouldnt have said yes, what i should have said is "depends on the flow characteristics of the head. A stock OBDII head saw more power all over with a 276 over the 270. a tad more torque low end and it didnt die off as quick past 4500 like the 270 did...thus more peak hp.


Thanks for that clarification. Even tho i find those findings really amazing especially with the lack of flow on the stock OBDII head!


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

more overall power is realized once you port the head.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_more overall power is realized once you port the head. 


oh yea thats a given.


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## Ventooo (Nov 26, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (redzone98)*

euro caddy cam and solid lifters!







Torque FTW


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Ventooo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ventooo* »_euro caddy cam and solid lifters!







Torque FTW

dont bother.


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## Ventooo (Nov 26, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

why not? lol


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

You cant just throw a solid lifter cam and lifters in a hydraulic head.


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## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

I love the 268 in my 95 jetta

way more power every where than stock,but it is p&p and decked
stock 86 whp now 120whp
and more hp\tq at 2500 than I had peak before,and pulls to 6k
good enough for a daily,and autoX car


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