# 6 piston caliper mounted under stock wheel



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

finaly had a chance to take a pic of the setup. Been on for months now with no problems...


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## eger (Oct 29, 2007)

That's a pretty cool picture. I like to see more A3 pics in action. What wheels are those?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (eger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eger* »_That's a pretty cool picture. I like to see more A3 pics in action. What wheels are those?

stock 17" sport wheels.
We had gone to a dyno day and decided to throw the A3 on for kicks. A friend was there taking pics for his Photography final or something so I made sure he got one of the brakes with the wheel moving.


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## yam (Jul 18, 2005)

Nice, Great picture.


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## eh (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: 6 piston caliper mounted under stock wheel ([email protected])*

Touareg calipers?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: 6 piston caliper mounted under stock wheel (eh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eh* »_Touareg calipers?

close, actually probably would be yes.
Q7 with mk2 TT rotors. Going to switch to b7S4 rotors as they are 5mm larger and should mean I won't have to modify the pads.


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## [email protected] Technik (Mar 25, 2003)

*Re: 6 piston caliper mounted under stock wheel ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_finaly had a chance to take a pic of the setup. Been on for months now with no problems...









Well there was that time at the track.....


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## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

hey chris - any plans to do a write up? just looking for another BBK alternative


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## Presns3 (Mar 6, 2006)

i want that................................................


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (whizbang18T)*

I could eventually, it would have to come all apart to do it. 
Whenver I switch to S4 rotors I guess I could.
I don't know what retail would be but it was less then 850 I think for everthing at my cost from the dealer I used to work for.


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## nstotal (Sep 26, 2006)

didn't you say you had to do a bit of grinding to get them to fit though? was it grinding on the pad IIRC.


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## Presns3 (Mar 6, 2006)

under 1k for 6pot bbk?!?!?!
add that to the future mod list....
was everything mostly just bolt on?

the rotor doesnt look OEM tho, wheres it from


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Presns3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Presns3* »_under 1k for 6pot bbk?!?!?!
add that to the future mod list....
was everything mostly just bolt on?

the rotor doesnt look OEM tho, wheres it from



Sure everything bolts on its just a matter of it fitting...
the caliper to fit under the stock wheels needed to be ground down. This would not have to be done on anything larger then a 17. 12mm spacers help it to clear the spokes but 'I had them already. Again something with a flat spoke and lower offset could be fine.
I need to have the caliper machined to fit better and center the pads, ror now I just ground the pin down that the pads sit on.
The pads also sat out a hair too far so I machined down the surface that holds them in place to center them on the rotor. I hope the S4 355mm rotor will fix this. The S4 rotor offset is slightly different also which may center it in the caliper better. hopefully not make it worse.
In that picture is a 350mm MKII TT rotor, straight from the parts counter at the dealer I used to work for. I may make my own two piece rotors for them eventually.
Brake lines are from stoptech, and the hardware is from mcmaster


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (nstotal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nstotal* »_didn't you say you had to do a bit of grinding to get them to fit though? was it grinding on the pad IIRC.

Both for the time being. 
I had to take some material off the outside of the caliper. On the stock wheels since its so tight you can't even see unless you take the wheel off.
The pads had to be ground slightly as did the pins that they sit on.
Its more then most would want to do which is why I never did a write up. I am going to change some things around which will hopefully make the instal easier.


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## Presns3 (Mar 6, 2006)

hm, im a newb cuz i meant to ask about the caliper, not the rotor.
where is the rotor from?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Presns3)*

Caliper Q7
Rotor MKII TT
Pads Cayenne turbo
Lines Stoptech
Mounting Hardware mcmaster-carr


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## Presns3 (Mar 6, 2006)

ahhh i see... the rotor is OEM?
how come it says "positive deviation" on it... u custom engrave it?

btw, what size are the TT rotors? the b7s4?
let us know when u change rotors... 
and DEFINITELY make a DIY in the future!


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## eh (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Yeah, Q7 and Touareg calipers should be the same. Cayenne too, but they're painted.
I had Touareg calipers with R32 rotors on my Mk IV GTI. I miss being able to make passengers eat dashboard.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Presns3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Presns3* »_ahhh i see... the rotor is OEM?
how come it says "positive deviation" on it... u custom engrave it?

Oh on the caliper? Thats my/old company before I came to work for REVO, they are just stickers not engraved although I may on those. Car was going to a track day so we tossed them on to see if they would last, and its been several thousands miles and many months now.

_Quote »_
btw, what size are the TT rotors? the b7s4?

TT 3.2 rotors are 350mm
B7S4 rotors are 355

_Quote »_
let us know when u change rotors... 
and DEFINITELY make a DIY in the future!

I will try and do both, neither are planned for the immediate future as I have more pressing needs like and IC, pistons, and rods.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (eh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eh* »_Yeah, Q7 and Touareg calipers should be the same. Cayenne too, but they're painted.

Yup i worked for Audi at the time so I grabbed the Q7 ones, peaked over at a T-reg at the VW dealer yesterday and looked the same.
Loved the fact that they were matte black and didn't say porsche on them which is why I went with these.

_Quote »_
I had Touareg calipers with R32 rotors on my Mk IV GTI. I miss being able to make passengers eat dashboard.

Yeah they really work great http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I've said it before and say it again: congrats on an inventive, pragmatic, OEM+ über-upgrade http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Really awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_I've said it before and say it again: congrats on an inventive, pragmatic, OEM+ über-upgrade http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Really awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Thanks, your car still puts mine to shame though..


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## sapatillaplana (Dec 7, 2006)

I can mount Cayenne caliper(or Q7,touareg) with my stock rotors.
I've a S3 8p and rotors OEm have 345mm
Thnkas and excuse my poor english,I'm from Spain.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_I've said it before and say it again: congrats on an inventive, pragmatic, OEM+ über-upgrade http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Really awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

ECS has been doing it for over a year . . . 
Dave


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## Presns3 (Mar 6, 2006)

*Re: (sapatillaplana)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sapatillaplana* »_I can mount Cayenne caliper(or Q7,touareg) with my stock rotors.
I've a S3 8p and rotors OEm have 345mm
Thnkas and excuse my poor english,I'm from Spain.

so basically... S3 rotors with Q7 rotors = bolt on with no modifications?


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## Presns3 (Mar 6, 2006)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
ECS has been doing it for over a year . . . 
Dave

but they charge well over 2000$
this is under 1000!


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## paixim (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: (Presns3)*

I would be very interested in this mod too if it becomes available at a reasonable cost


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (Presns3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Presns3* »_
but they charge well over 2000$
this is under 1000!

He purchased it at dealer cost and had to do grinding to get it to fit. 
Good luck trying to get dealer cost at most places . . . . 
Dave


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
He purchased it at dealer cost and had to do grinding to get it to fit. 
Good luck trying to get dealer cost at most places . . . . 
Dave

Retail on each caliper is about 350 last I checked, rotors can be found for under a hundred each as well as the pads. I paid much less, the thousand dollar figure most people should be able to get close to.
The grinding was to clear my wheels if you had 18s it would not need to be done. You'd have to grind anyones kit using these calipers to fit it under 17s. 
Modifying the pads was based on the rotor diameter. Had I tried the s4 rotors first I more then likely would not have had to modify the pads. The ECS uses 352mm rotors and the S4 ones are 350mm.
A big part of the ECS kit cost is the two piece rotors which can be a few hundred each and I believe the cayenne calipers cost more also.


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## REVGTI (Nov 14, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

So does our current master cylinder support the required pressure of 6 pistons properly?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (REVGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *REVGTI* »_So does our current master cylinder support the required pressure of 6 pistons properly?


Yes, Its actually all fixed and ABS is constantly adjusting it. If you were to disable the ABS you'd lose brake bias even, that is how involved it is. Actually on our cars we are back to even two lines only from the master cylinder to the ABS control module.


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## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

*doh* ... beat me to it


_Modified by whizbang18T at 5:00 PM 11/23/2007_


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (whizbang18T)*

luis, didn't get a chance to locate the hardware before I left. I'll check on monday when I get back to the office and have to straighten up the workshop anyway.


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## Presns3 (Mar 6, 2006)

im curious, what kind of mounting hardware did you need to get?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Presns3)*

I don't remember all the specs etc but it was just 4 bolts, 4 nuts, and 4 sleeves to take up the space in the 16mm hole on the calipers. The bolt pattern is the same as stock.


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## roccoman82 (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Curious, would this work as a bolt on for a mkII TT 3.2? been thinking about a brake upgrade, and this seems to be pretty attractive and cost effective.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (roccoman82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *roccoman82* »_Curious, would this work as a bolt on for a mkII TT 3.2? been thinking about a brake upgrade, and this seems to be pretty attractive and cost effective. 

It should, and I hope so as I plan to switch to the MK II TT bearing housings.


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## Presns3 (Mar 6, 2006)

are the s4 rotors crossdrilled? slotted?
would the rs4 rotors fit?
also, why are u gonna switch to MKII TT bearings?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Presns3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Presns3* »_are the s4 rotors crossdrilled? slotted?
would the rs4 rotors fit?

S4 rotors are not drilled and slotted from the factory but there is nothing stopping you from buying aftermarket ones that were if that is what you watned.
RS4 rotors are larger I forget the specs but I believe too large.


_Quote »_
also, why are u gonna switch to MKII TT bearings? 

The ball joint is dropped like it was on the MK1 TT which levels the control arm and corrects the roll center on a lowered car.
They also have aluminum control arms VS steel, so the may be a bit lighter.


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## Presns3 (Mar 6, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The ball joint is dropped like it was on the MK1 TT which levels the control arm and corrects the roll center on a lowered car.
They also have aluminum control arms VS steel, so the may be a bit lighter.


is that the problem areas on GTIs and A3s that cause the cars to make "snapping" and "popping" noises when turning/parking
Here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2721992


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Presns3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Presns3* »_
is that the problem areas on GTIs and A3s that cause the cars to make "snapping" and "popping" noises when turning/parking
Here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2721992

No different issue.. not a big deal for lowered cars just driving on the street but when it comes down to an overall performance standpoint the lowered roll center on lowered cars means they actually handle worse. They may appear to handle better but in reality they don't.
By lowering the ball joint you level out the control arm which puts it in its optimal position to have a nice even camber curve as the suspension works.
The popping sound is annoying, i've got it also in my left front just have not had time to sort it out.. I think I may have a bad strut bearing though.


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## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

been trying to source those calipers .. my parts guy says there's 3 different ones ... is that right? i'm getting close to biting the bullet.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (whizbang18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whizbang18T* »_been trying to source those calipers .. my parts guy says there's 3 different ones ... is that right? i'm getting close to biting the bullet.









hmm not sure.. not that I recall.
is that at porsche or Audi? audi there would be three due to the colors, silver yellow and red. Audi just one when I checked.
still have not had a chance to check for the hardware sorry.. I will find it..


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## xt0rted (Jan 8, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I'm planning on doing this in the spring. Could you post a picture showing what was machined down on the caliper? I'm guessing they'll need to be repainted once this is done right?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (xt0rted)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xt0rted* »_I'm planning on doing this in the spring. Could you post a picture showing what was machined down on the caliper? I'm guessing they'll need to be repainted once this is done right?

Depends.. I can't see where I had to grind them down from the outside so I never painted them.
I need to rotate my tires so I will take a pic when I have them off.


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## TD22057 (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Shameless bump hoping for updates, pictures, part numbers, how to's, or anything else about this mod.


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## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

i'm collecting parts myself for the same type of build-up .. i'm gonna try the b7s4 rotors as chris suggested earlier


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## Presns3 (Mar 6, 2006)

*Re: (whizbang18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whizbang18T* »_i'm collecting parts myself for the same type of build-up .. i'm gonna try the b7s4 rotors as chris suggested earlier

get at me with info on that!
part numbers prices..
DIY!!! thanks luis!


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Presns3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Presns3* »_
get at me with info on that!
part numbers prices..
DIY!!! thanks luis!

they won't clear your wheels they only fit under Iforged wheels


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## nstotal (Sep 26, 2006)

lol nice one chris
since i have larger wheels, would the Q7 calipers with s4 rotors be a bolt on? or is there still machining that needs to be done? center hub?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (nstotal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nstotal* »_lol nice one chris
since i have larger wheels, would the Q7 calipers with s4 rotors be a bolt on? or is there still machining that needs to be done? center hub?


I have not tried the S4 rotors yet so the offset of the rotor and how its going to sit in the caliper I don't know about whch may mean some maching is required
Larger wheels will definitely fit the caliper you are talking about the radius. but depending on dish, lip, and how the spokes are shaped it may not clear the face of the claliper.


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## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

does this look right? apparently there are 2 diferrent front calipers - one that clears 330mm rotors & the other 350mm rotors. i picked up the ones for the 350s


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## xt0rted (Jan 8, 2006)

*Re: (whizbang18T)*

What was the cost on those? It's tempting to forget others this holiday season and worry about my stopping ability instead


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (whizbang18T)*

hard to say looking at them. IM me the part number I'll pull my wheels after work and check.


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## QGMika (Jul 25, 2002)

*Re: (whizbang18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whizbang18T* »_does this look right? apparently there are 2 diferrent front calipers - one that clears 330mm rotors & the other 350mm rotors. i picked up the ones for the 350s


Also noticed from ETKA that the caliper that clears 330mm is for a 32mm thick rotor. While caliper for 350mm is for a 34mm thick rotor. 
I dont know the thickness of MK2 TT rotors, but I do know the S4 rotors are 345mm x 30mm.


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## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

i wonder if i can use the brake lines from the q7/toureg as well ... wonder if the length would be too long or not


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

*Re: (crew219)*

Had a similar setup on my A3 2 years ago and it rocked this is the ECS Stage5 kit before it was available to be purchased. 6pot 14.1" rotors and they fit under Hartmann DTM 18" replica wheels just fine.


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## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

right .. those pics help me a lot actually -- comparing my fist relative to those calipers in the pic w/ the tech, it *looks* like i have the right calipers.


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## Presns3 (Mar 6, 2006)

*Re: (whizbang18T)*

hey, so i have a friend who has a the normal cayenne...
he upgraded to brembos...
so the OEM brakes he had... are those the right kind?
or does it need to be the turbo or something


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## QGMika (Jul 25, 2002)

*Re: (Presns3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Presns3* »_hey, so i have a friend who has a the normal cayenne...
he upgraded to brembos...
so the OEM brakes he had... are those the right kind?
or does it need to be the turbo or something

Now if only the parts department had a refund policy...(actually do they have a refund policy?







) you could buy them and compare them to your friends Cayenne calipers. 
The real work involved in putting together this cheap BBK is making sure the clearences are correct since according to Chris, the calipers are bolt-on. But even though their bolt-on thats not the end, unlike a branded BBK kit. 
If he's your friend, i'm sure he'd lend you a caliper and you could test fit it. Correct me if i'm wrong but the caliper is just bolted on by two bolts...


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## roccoman82 (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: (DSG604)*

Chris, Can we get an update on this? did you ever have a chance to make any of those changes you mentioned? did the S4 rotors fix the pad alignment issue? any hopes of a full write up?
TIA


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## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: (roccoman82)*

s4 rotors don't work. They sit too far out from the hub.


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## tpsolid (May 21, 2008)

does bigger brakes make car stop faster?


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## 3lfk1ng (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: (tpsolid)*


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## i_baked_cookies (Aug 28, 2007)

*Re: (tpsolid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tpsolid* »_does bigger brakes make car stop faster?

I don't think so... the stock brakes have more than enough power to lock up all wheels, so it doesn't have to do with that. The issue is cooling - so the more surface area your brakes have (bigger diameter), the less hot they become. Also, the more surface area, the faster they cool off. The cooler they are, the less fade they endure. I think its possible to overheat the stock brakes so much that they wouldn't even be able to stop the car reasonably.
Correct me if I'm wrong of course.


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## tpsolid (May 21, 2008)

actually you are wrong.
more surface area on the disc + bigger pad = better traction therefore will slow the car down faster.


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## terje_77 (Dec 19, 2005)

*Re: (tpsolid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tpsolid* »_actually you are wrong.
more surface area on the disc + bigger pad = better traction therefore will slow the car down faster.

Not again.


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

*Re: (ProjectA3)*

hot damn!!!!


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## Mentosman42 (Oct 3, 2007)

*Re: (tpsolid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tpsolid* »_actually you are wrong.
more surface area on the disc + bigger pad = better traction therefore will slow the car down faster.

with stock brakes i can lock my wheels up so no, bigger brakes will just do the same thing, lock them up.
in this case you need more traction to be able to use the big brakes.
cooling is a different story.


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## littlewhite (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: (Presns3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Presns3* »_
is that the problem areas on GTIs and A3s that cause the cars to make "snapping" and "popping" noises when turning/parking
Here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2721992

I had that annoying popping/clicking sound before and found out somehow a rock was stuck in the steering rack







dam$ construction. Currently the sound is still there, but very soft pop only at slow and stationary position. Only pop/click turning wheel from left to right. Been like that for few months and actually just tighten all the subframe bolt and is still having the noise. Is not too loud and no idea where it is from. Figure if is not getting louder i will just deal with it & alright


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## project_A3_DTM (Apr 1, 2008)

*Re: (roccoman82)*

any update? anyone?? what are the things we need to get the Q7 brake to work??


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## TechnikSLR (Jul 30, 2008)

bump for working pics of the original install!


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## project_A3_DTM (Apr 1, 2008)

*Re: (TechnikSLR)*

bump


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (project_A3_DTM)*

i might as well bump this too....


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## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Do you know if the TT discs have the same offset as the Cayenne 350/34 mm discs?
Porsche links 95535140150 + rechts 95535140250
VW links 7L6615301E + rechts 7L6615302E


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (1,3LG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1,3LG60* »_Do you know if the TT discs have the same offset as the Cayenne 350/34 mm discs?
Porsche links 95535140150 + rechts 95535140250
VW links 7L6615301E + rechts 7L6615302E



Offset I believe is way wrong and they are the wrong bolt pattern.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Sorry about the pics I believe the one on the first page was just a rolling shot on the dyno through the wheel which was on a friend of a friends facebook and looks like he rearranged it to took it down. I have some recent ones doing other work on my car just have to dig them up.
I don't really suggest the TT rotors as they take a bit of work to get the brakes fully functional. Since they do not center correctly you can't run the pads down as far as you usually would. The car has a session on road atlanta, a track weekend and about 25K on it, the pads are about 60% worn and I am looking to change them just so it doesn't pop off the pad stop. 
I have spoken with a few people about getting some rotors made so that others could easily do this but nothing has panned out 100%. I just started talking with someone else recently and it may be able to move forward with getting a few sets made.


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## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

How much space is it from the edge of the disc to the inside of the calipper?
My mate is trying to make up a kit using Landrover 360 (?) mm disc redrilled for 5x112 on his Mk 5 GTI. The disc have the correct offset. He is using AP calipers though


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I have spoken with a few people about getting some rotors made so that others could easily do this but nothing has panned out 100%. I just started talking with someone else recently and it may be able to move forward with getting a few sets made. 

damn. i'm so dying for a writeup... i don't want to go at this blindly with all the random internet info floating around and end up with an expensive paperweight


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (1,3LG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1,3LG60* »_How much space is it from the edge of the disc to the inside of the calipper?
My mate is trying to make up a kit using Landrover 360 (?) mm disc redrilled for 5x112 on his Mk 5 GTI. The disc have the correct offset. He is using AP calipers though

It is the pad stops that the rotor hits. On the outside face it actually touches them and they need to be ground down so they don't cut into the rotor. Also then the outside pad is very tight and I had to remove the rubber vibration pad from it to get it to fit. 
When I get new rotors that sit centers I'll have ot machine some new pad stops. 
I never took accurate measurements to figure out how far off center they are.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_
damn. i'm so dying for a writeup... i don't want to go at this blindly with all the random internet info floating around and end up with an expensive paperweight









If I can find someone to make me good rotors and would be able to reproduce them if other people wanted them. Would mostly like be that person selling them not me or Revo. Then I would do a write up. Until then since I post under this name I can't really go into great detail on how to rig up brakes, I'm sure you guys understand.
For me they have worked flawlessly and can't imagine something working significantly better, but just can't risk someone else having a problem.


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The ball joint is dropped like it was on the MK1 TT which levels the control arm and corrects the roll center on a lowered car.
They also have aluminum control arms VS steel, so the may be a bit lighter.


chris, in reference to below, what parts are you talking about?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

#2 would be the bearing housing which on the TT is longer on the bottom putting the ball joint lower. This then pushes the control arm down which is flatter and helps with the roll center. 
The ball joint #11 is then specific to the TT I believe to work with this. Also the control arms are slotted more so you can get some individual camber adjustment.
#11 is the control arm and that is cast aluminum vs cast steel, so should be lighter. 
On the Mk4 platform cars you needed to use all of the parts together or modify them heavily. Also then needed to use the TT Sway bar or no swaybar and some other parts I forget exactly.
A company did make a new cast bearing housing for the mk4s that used the stock control arms, ball joints, and swaybar. I believe the aftermarket parts ended up being a few more bucks then the used TT parts but a lot less work, TT used parts could end up more if you replaced the hubs bearings etc while it was apart. Our wheel bearings now are bolt in so they can be swapped over just need 4 new bolts on each side since they are stretch bolts. 
I priced it once a while back.. was not cheap but not crazy either, just more than I wanted to spend at the time.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Also TTs in the past had stiffer control arm bushings on the early control arms, may be the case with these as well.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

thanks chris... any specific model years/part numbers to look out for? this is for a mk5 gti... i get that damn pop on one side


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

08 and on TTs should have the stuff but you would need to double check. They were just rolling in the dealer when I left to come work for Revo and haven't looked into it much since other then checking some prices. 
Mk5 R32 parts may also be the same, I haven't ever checked one of those in that regards.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

yeah just trying to avoid the usual service/parts. dept. spiel i get when i ask for nonstandard parts, oem or not


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Benjamin T)*

just wondering but why are there 2 different sizes? ie. 330mm rotors & the other 350mm rotors? v6 vs v8-powered models?
bump... hoping someone might know? i found a set of touraeg 330mm calipers for really cheap and was wondering if it's something i can make work.


_Modified by Benjamin T at 7:17 AM 4-22-2009_


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Benjamin T)*

dragging this back to the surface... does anyone know what w12 vw phaetons used for front brake hardware? i'm wondering if it's the same as the audi rs6.


_Modified by Benjamin T at 11:25 AM 5-7-2009_


----------



## 1.8TTURBO (Oct 1, 2006)

Hey chris i need to contact you about the stage 3 software we talked about...


----------



## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
ECS has been doing it for over a year . . . 
Dave

guy's I got 328mm stoptechs on the front, I'm looking for a bolt on solution for the rear that has a two piece option for rotors. So I'm looking for a larger two piece rotor for the rear, don't care much about what calipers are used stock with a bracket or any OEM bolt on unit is fine. Any one know of such a setup that will fit my MKV GLI?


----------



## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

Found a few more specs regarding discs. Word on the street is that you can use ML55 345x32mm discs
ML55
Durchmesser [mm] 345 
Höhe [mm] 51 
Bremsscheibenart belüftet 
Bremsscheibendicke [mm] 32,0 
Mindestdicke [mm] 30 
Zentrierungsdurchmesser [mm] 67 
Felge Lochzahl 5 








Eigenschaft Wert 
Durchmesser [mm] 345 
Höhe [mm] 50 
Bremsscheibenart belüftet 
Bremsscheibendicke [mm] 30,0 
Mindestdicke [mm] 27 
Zentrierungsdurchmesser [mm] 64 
Felge Lochzahl 5 

Cayenne
Durchmesser / Outer Ø [mm] 350,0 
Bremsscheibendicke / Thickness [mm] 34,0
Mindestdicke / Minimum Thickness [mm] 32,0
Lochanzahl / No. of holes 5
Durchmesser : 350,0 mm
Dicke: 34,0mm
Höhe: 68,75 mm
Gewicht pro Stück: 12,04 kg
Pic of the ML disc


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Presns3)*

Sears sell 14mm (39mm length) flange bolts. The bushing you can get it off ebay for $2.25 each 5/8". Economical and works like charms


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

From the looks of the ML rotors on the B6/B7 applications they look to be a little better then the TT rotors but maybe not enough.
I have been in contact with someone in the Lathrop area of CA if anyone is interested they just need the car for like a day to bolt up a caliper and check measurements and they can move forward with producing rotors. They would be 2 piece with aluminum hats, slotted or plain and based on their other pricing about 750 bucks for the pair.
If anyone is local and interested in lending a hand we can get this rolling just shoot me an email and I can send you their contact info.
A Mk5, TT or A3 would work fine. They have a caliper and just need a car.


----------



## drew138 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

What exactly are they testing? I'm running 19" BBS CHs and am starting consider serously a brake upgrade. I'm about 30-40 mins away from that shop I think.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Wheels won't matter, they are just going to bolt up a caliper that they have and test fit some of their existing rotors to see if anything fits. If nothing fits they are considering producing one that does so they would take some measurements and make a hat to work with a rotor they have that is the correct thickness and diameter. 
They won't be selling any kits themselves they just sell some of the hardware and rotors but you'd then be able to get the parts and put together a kit yourself. 
Mine has been on for over 2 years and 20K+ miles now with no problems.
I just got the ml55 rotor this morning and I'll be test fitting it this evening or tomorrow.


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_From the looks of the ML rotors on the B6/B7 applications they look to be a little better then the TT rotors but maybe not enough.
I have been in contact with someone in the Lathrop area of CA if anyone is interested they just need the car for like a day to bolt up a caliper and check measurements and they can move forward with producing rotors. They would be 2 piece with aluminum hats, slotted or plain and based on their other pricing about 750 bucks for the pair.
If anyone is local and interested in lending a hand we can get this rolling just shoot me an email and I can send you their contact info.
A Mk5, TT or A3 would work fine. They have a caliper and just need a car. 

JHM?


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

Keep us posted if the ML55 disc work without mods!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (lour32)*

Any luck on the ML55 rotor?


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Sitting my behind my chair (well yoga ball I used as a chair) in my office haven't had a chance to get it on. I am in the middle of painting my jeep so didn't want to take the brakes all apart and have to rush to get them back together since I have no backup car right now. Probably check it out this weekend so if i need to order any parts they can be on the way and the car apart while we are up at waterfest.
As for who it is I do not want ot confirm or deny since they do not advertise here yet I have no clue if they have plans to sell anything for this market I'm just hoping to get a set for myself







.. If they do end up making a product they probably would start to advertiser here since they would then have a market worth spending the money as a lot of mk5 owners would probably be interested. I honestly haven't done any research yet on those who have experience with this companies existing rotors since at this point they have nothing to offer us anyway.


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

*Re: 6 piston caliper mounted under stock wheel ([email protected])*

any word on making this work?
been looking into doing it myself for a bit.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Well, the ML55 will not be a nice fit without some mod'n. From what the picture looks like above, it does not quite match a ML55 rotor. 
However, I have close ties to the MB and Audi guys, so I'm blazing through several OEM rotors to find the sweet spot. I will keep everyone informed.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Ok... again, ML55 won't work due to the fact that it is wider and would require even more grinding down of the outer pad pins and give you a greater gap in the inside that Chris said before.
Looking at the specs, I thought a 2009 A6 V8 would work (347x30mm) but it sets in just a tad too far inside and hits the ball joint. 
However, the MKV R32 rotor is very similar to the ML55 rotor, but it is 345x30 vs 345x32 with a slightly different offset. I think I will pick one up from VW tomorrow and again see what I will end up. 
I am also thinking about trying a 2009 TTS rotor (340x30) but I don't have the spec information to find out what offset I'm looking at. 
Just incase there are a few other people out there working on this project, you may go to:
http://bremboaftermarket.com/E....aspx 
There you can see different specs and all types of rotors supplied by brembo and give you a good idea of specs.
So, with all that said, I am working on getting this thing solved!


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

The calipers are meant for 32mm wide rotors so just being wider does not matter as long as the offset is correct. Did you try the ML55 rotors or just look at the width and assume they won't fit. Been so buy lately especailly with WF that I have not had a chance to try mine. 
The MK5 R32 Rotor is the same as the Mk2 TT rotor I am using that doesn't work without shaving the pin. 
Did you try the actual A6 rotor?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected]echnik)*

Tried the ml55 rotors today. No good. Pretty much same offset as passat 3.6 4motion.


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

C32 rotor works?


_Modified by xola3que at 8:39 AM 7-27-2009_


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Yep, I tried the ML55 rotor and sets outside approx the same as a MK2 or MKV R32. However, something I think is a issue is the center hub bore not being the correct size. A3s center hubs are 65mm and the ML55 is 67. I guess you could get a ring made for it, but I just like having the rotor fit like a glove with.
As for the C32 rotor, it will work as well, but requires some major machining. Inside hub has to be openned up to 65mm and the bolt holes have to be honed out from 12mm to 14mm. The C32 rotor is promising, but just requires a bit of tinkering.
However, I'm working on something alittle bit better than have to machine rotors every time you need to replace it. My machinist is milling in inner mounting points of the caliper (3mm to be approx) to fit a 2008 VW R32 345mm x 30mm rotor. This should give a nice rotor to caliper center. I'll keep everyone informed of the progress as soon as I get the caliper back today or tomorrow.
As for the 2009 A6 V8 rotor, yep I tried it just like the ML55 rotor. It was just a no go.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

ok, quick update. I had to call my machinist this morning a stop the milling on the caliper. 
I believe people have had the ML55 rotor wrong. Its not the earlier ML55 (2003), its the later ML63 AMG (2008). All the offsetting issues with the ML55 seems, math wise, to be corrected with the ML63. 
So, I ran next door to our MB guys and picked up a ML63 rotor and will slap it on really quick at lunch. I'll keep you informed, but here is the specs on the ML63 rotor:
Diameter [mm] 350 

Brake Disc Thickness [mm] 32,0 

Minimum Thickness [mm] 29,4 

Brake Disc Type Vented 

Finish Alloyed / High-carbon 

Number of Holes 5 

Pitch Circle Ø [mm] 112 

Height [mm] 54,5 (don't forget to subtract the hub thickness of approx 5.5mm)

Centering Diameter [mm] 67 

Inner Diameter [mm] 156,3 

Bore Ø [mm] 15,2 

Crossing fingers!!!!


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

Post up and let us know. Just ordered the c32 rotors. Maybe I should cancel.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Bingo!!!! Not only fits well, but you get the Porsche Cayenne rotor spec. 350mm x 32mm. 
2 issues but no biggie:

1. Great fit and requires no machining. However, only one problem pops up. The center bore is 67mm and stock hub bore is 65mm. That 1mm wall is enough to cause some vibrations, so just get your hands on a 67mm OD x 65mm (or 65.07mm) ring and should fix you up.

2. I would not recommend Cayenne S pads. Though it matches the 350mm Cayenne S rotor size, the face of the rotor surface is slightly smaller. As I said before regarding the R32 rotor, the inside of the pad facing the hub doesn't make a perfect face contact and comes of the face approx 1-2mm. I would recommend the base model Cayenne V6 pad.

So, soon as I get everything together, I WILL post pictures and parts lists.


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## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

C32 is also a no go. How hard will it be to fab up a spacer for the ml63 rotors?


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

In case everyone can't wait on my part finding, here is where I bought my rings. I don't know if they will %100 work, cause I haven't got them yet, but here you go:
http://www.lakeshorewheelandti...art=0


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

I bought the "wrong" calipers (the small ones for the non-turbo Cayenne).
Anyone know of a 330 mm disc that fits with this caliper?


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_In case everyone can't wait on my part finding, here is where I bought my rings. I don't know if they will %100 work, cause I haven't got them yet, but here you go:
http://www.lakeshorewheelandti...art=0


Let us know how much those ML63 rotors cost? Also how the hub centric rings installation goes?
Can't wait! This may be the ticket for Cayenne BBK setup


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

KaldBlod, have you physically attempted to mount your calipers with 345 or 350mm rotors? From what my knowledge is, these are the difference on on Porsche Cayenne Calipers:
Cayenne V6 - Black Calipers with smaller pads for a 330mm rotor
Cayenne S V8 - Red or Silver Calipers with pads for a 350mm rotor
Cayenne Turbo - Red Caliper with larger pad surface over 350mm and a larger pad surface on the rotor.
Calipers for a Cayenne V6 and Cayenne S V8 are same mount/offset wise and different colors. The only difference is that the Cayenne S V8 pad sets closer towards the center of the rotor. But as the caliper, they should be the same.
However, the Cayenne Turbo caliper is a beast all of its own. It is much larger and has a huge pad. 
I could be wrong, but just get you some Cayenne V6 pads and the ML63 rotors. I believe the rotors will still mount under those calipers. Plus the Cayenne V6 pads will save you $40-50 a set.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

oh, still waiting on the ring to be dropped off


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

I did a quick study about the 330mm vs the 350mm last month while I also mistakenly ordered a set of 17L/R (330mm) and my finding was that not only they use different pads, the mounting eyelets set into the calipers a bit closer to bring them toward the center hub so they can properly clamp on the 330mm rotors. I do not think they are interchangeable.

Anyone interested on a set of barely used R32 rotors for a budgeted Cayenne BBK, check my sig. 


_Modified by xola3que at 9:20 AM 7-28-2009_


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## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

Looks like this is the rotor
OE.Nr.Vorderachse (OEM partnumber) 1644210512
Scheibendurchmesser (diameter) 350mm 
Höhe (Height)55,2mm
Dicke (thickness) 32,0mm 
EUR 129,90 for a pair on German ebay, so about the same price in USD then


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (1,3LG60)*

If 1644210512 is what you said it is then:
http://rhinetradeonline.com/brdifr16.html
$80


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

You are correct but MB superseded the part number to : 164 421 141 2
But you can always look up the application as a 2008 ML63 AMG


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_KaldBlod, have you physically attempted to mount your calipers with 345 or 350mm rotors? From what my knowledge is, these are the difference on on Porsche Cayenne Calipers:
Cayenne V6 - Black Calipers with smaller pads for a 330mm rotor
Cayenne S V8 - Red or Silver Calipers with pads for a 350mm rotor
Cayenne Turbo - Red Caliper with larger pad surface over 350mm and a larger pad surface on the rotor.
Calipers for a Cayenne V6 and Cayenne S V8 are same mount/offset wise and different colors. The only difference is that the Cayenne S V8 pad sets closer towards the center of the rotor. But as the caliper, they should be the same.
However, the Cayenne Turbo caliper is a beast all of its own. It is much larger and has a huge pad. 
I could be wrong, but just get you some Cayenne V6 pads and the ML63 rotors. I believe the rotors will still mount under those calipers. Plus the Cayenne V6 pads will save you $40-50 a set.

Hmm. I have some MB ML430CDI 345 mm discs here, and they do seem to fit perfectly inside the caliper, but there is no chance to mount the caliper to the car when disc is present. It might be as xola3que said - that the mounting holes are placed differently on some calipers to make it fit better with a 330 mm disc.
Maybe it's possible to enlarge the mounting holes to move the caliper further out?
My calipers are not red, silver or black. They are gray!


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Well if you're using a MB ML430 rotor, you're are in trouble. You will need to machine in the inside of the caliper mounting points to push the caliper out or you machine down you guide pins (which isn't the best idea). The height of the rotor is too shallow, so I would say you need to go with a different rotor. These are the specs I pulled up with that rotor, and math wise, it doesn't look like a good choice:
Diameter [mm] 345 

Brake Disc Thickness [mm] 31,9 

Minimum Thickness [mm] 30 

Brake Disc Type Vented 

Number of Holes 5 

Finish High-carbon 

Height [mm] 51 (PROBLEM!!! NOT ENOUGHT!!) Need at least 2.5-4.0mm more.

Centering Diameter [mm] 67 

Inner Diameter [mm] 156,5 

Pitch Circle Ø [mm] 112 

Bore Ø [mm] 15,3 
However, pick you up a 2008 ML63 AMG rotor and your problem should be fixed. As for the color. You can call it dark gray or turd brown, Porsche will call it black








IMO, you just have discovered the main problem that we have been battling here with rotors with these calipers. The calipers shouldn't be the problem. They have the same offset. They have the same control arm, hub, knuckle, and rotor offset.


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (KaldBlod)*

Just for comparison. 18ZL/R vs 17ZL/R. Notice the mounting "brackets" length and how much of a difference between the two.
I wouldn't machine the mounting holes. You're taking big risk here.










_Quote, originally posted by *KaldBlod* »_
Hmm. I have some MB ML430CDI 345 mm discs here, and they do seem to fit perfectly inside the caliper, but there is no chance to mount the caliper to the car when disc is present. It might be as xola3que said - that the mounting holes are placed differently on some calipers to make it fit better with a 330 mm disc.
Maybe it's possible to enlarge the mounting holes to move the caliper further out?
My calipers are not red, silver or black. They are gray!








 


_Modified by xola3que at 1:59 PM 7-27-2009_


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

The angle of the picture (yada yada) could make it appear differently. I've seen them both in front of me before, and don't recall them having different offsets, but that is what my memory recalls. I've also checked PET and Cayenne V6 and Cayenne S have the same knuckle, control arm, and hub. I even went the extra mile and took both rotors off the shelf and put them stacked next to each other. 
I compared these two rotors:
955-351-401-41 (Cayenne V6)
955-351-401-51 (Cayenne S)
They have exactly the same offset. Same height. So just listen to me, chunk that other rotor and get your hands on a ML63 AMG rotor







Those pictures are misleading you.
As for the mounting points, its perfectly fine to mill down approx 3mm. There is approx 19mm of gurth and milling down to 16mm wont be an issue. There is more than enought (but that is my opinion). Always do what you think is safe, but for myself, I always trust comparing these things to other racing applications on Porsche here where I work. So, I fell good with 16mm, but I wouldn't trust it with grinding it down with a grinder lol.... machinist only.
But as I said before, don't need to do this if you just get the rotor I'm telling you about.


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

yeah..I suspect it could be the camera angle. But you definitely will know when you can't put on the caliper because the mounting holes doesn't meet (given that the outboard pins didn't get in the way.) That's what I assume what he meant when he wanted to machine out the hole so that they will meet. Unless he trying to machine out the hole for other reason.








BTW, carbonfold, if those hubcentric rings work when it come, do you want to send me two of them and we split the cost? They're selling those in a set of 4 and I don't know if you need the other two???




_Modified by xola3que at 2:32 PM 7-27-2009_


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Guys, I have just tried the ML430 disc to check out if it would work. I will try to get my hands on the ML63 rotors and test if they do work...


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

They do, I've put them on







I'm just waiting on my hub centric rings and I'm repainting mine with Brembo stickers. 
see below from last week***************
Bingo!!!! Not only fits well, but you get the Porsche Cayenne rotor spec. 350mm x 32mm. 
2 issues but no biggie:

1. Great fit and requires no machining. However, only one problem pops up. The center bore is 67mm and stock hub bore is 65mm. That 1mm wall is enough to cause some vibrations, so just get your hands on a 67mm OD x 65mm (or 65.07mm) ring and should fix you up.

2. I would not recommend Cayenne S pads. Though it matches the 350mm Cayenne S rotor size, the face of the rotor surface is slightly smaller. As I said before regarding the R32 rotor, the inside of the pad facing the hub doesn't make a perfect face contact and comes of the face approx 1-2mm. I would recommend the base model Cayenne V6 pad.

So, soon as I get everything together, I WILL post pictures and parts lists.


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

That's great.
I hope that I can find a dealer here in Norway that have these discs in stock so that I can try them on my car too.








Is the "small" V6 pads very small on the 350 disc? How will the wear be after some time?
My setup is btw. going on a VW Scirocco, but I'm pretty sure that the Scirocco, Mk5 Golf and the A3 8P uses the same 312 mm setup.


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## SprintA3 (Jan 11, 2007)

Chris - How much clearance do you have with the 12mm spacers? Could you use smaller spacers to clear, say 8mm or 10mm?


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (SprintA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SprintA3* »_Chris - How much clearance do you have with the 12mm spacers? Could you use smaller spacers to clear, say 8mm or 10mm?

I'm not Chris but I'm running H&R 12.5mm spacers w/ stock wheel offset of ET51. It BARELY clear, and on hard cornering, the wheels started to shave the paint along the bottom caliper outer surface. I say that's as little as you can go w/ stock wheels.




_Modified by xola3que at 9:18 AM 7-28-2009_


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Guys, remember that it's not only the ET of the wheels that matter. Also the design of the spokes counts in...


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## SprintA3 (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_
I'm not Chris but I'm running H&R 12.5mm spacers w/ stock wheel offset of ET51. It BARELY clear, and on hard cornering, the wheels started to shave the paint along the bottom caliper outer surface. I say that's as little as you can go w/ stock wheels.


Ah, thats what I was afraid of. My BBS wheels extend 12mm past the stock A3 wheels (17x7.5 +56) but the inner clearance is the same due to the extra width of an 8" wheel. So to make these work I would need roughly 17mm more clearance for them to barely fit. Not going to happen.


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

LOL! Asked my local Mercedes dealer for a price on ML63 AMG rotors. 2700 NOK per side = 440 USD. 880 USD total!!! Again: LOL!
eBay is my friend.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

This is the part number:
164 421 141 2
Our MB guys say that it also fits a 2008 GL450
So, just call them back up and ask them about that part number. If still that high, go to this website:
http://mercedesbenzdallas.parkplacetexas.com/
Order it from them. Should be $100 USD a piece, but I know shipping to Norway will be pretty expensive.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Correction, they are showing them for $85.00 USD if you type in the part number


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## heuanA3 (May 6, 2009)

if i remember correctly C32 rotors are both left side ones. How about the rotors off the C43?


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

I have no idea, nor do I even know if those will work. ML63 / GL450 rotors are from an SUV and are non-directional. 
So you can tell them the left and get a right. Ask for a right and you might get a left. Or actually get a left on left or right on right...... You get the point lol


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## heuanA3 (May 6, 2009)

ahh ic ic. i know the C43s are directions so were the C32's


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_This is the part number:
164 421 141 2
Our MB guys say that it also fits a 2008 GL450
So, just call them back up and ask them about that part number. If still that high, go to this website:
http://mercedesbenzdallas.parkplacetexas.com/
Order it from them. Should be $100 USD a piece, but I know shipping to Norway will be pretty expensive. 


Do you know for sure that the part number for both ML63 and GL450 is the same? http://www.germanautoparts.com sell Original MB, Zimmerman and ATE discs for about the same price, just under 100 USD a piece and they all have the same part number; 164 421 14 12.
I'd rather buy from them, since they're located on the east coast and shipping will be lower. I'll bet it will be pretty expensive anyways...








Let's hope they will fit. No Norwegian parts dealers have this disc in stock, so I can't try it out in forehand...


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Thats the part number and thats what I was told by our MB guys (that 164 421 141 2 fit several applications and that is the part number than I have in my hand







).
Also, still waiting on the hub centric rings guys. So be patient, I'll update you soon as I get them in my hands.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

And, just to let everyone know, all the rotor information I got was from (mainly) ATE. If you would like to save this to your fav's, beat yourself up








http://www.ate-na.com/generato....html
When you look up an vehicle, make sure you select Europe (won't really list anything for USA selection)


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Hmm. I'll try to order the disks and pads later this evening, then...
I ordered the rings to center the rotor too. Let's hope this will work out with my 17" calipers.


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Hmmm.. Discs (350 mm) and V6 pads is being shipped today or tomorrow. I just can't wait!!!


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (KaldBlod)*

post up your finding...I'm itching to get my hand on those rotors too.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

I'm still personally waiting on those damn hubcentric rings. Getting very impatient going on the 3rd week waiting!! ERGH!!!! But I got everything else, so soon as it hits, I'll be ready for them


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

does anyone know if there are any identification markings or dimensions on cayenne calipers that i can use to identify what i may have? i have a junkyard set here that i don't know which model they came from (i cannot identify by color either because someone had stripped them down at some point and had done a crappy respray







)


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## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_does anyone know if there are any identification markings or dimensions on cayenne calipers that i can use to identify what i may have? i have a junkyard set here that i don't know which model they came from (i cannot identify by color either because someone had stripped them down at some point and had done a crappy respray







)

17ZR/17ZL is the Cayenne Touareg V6, Touareg V8 caliper for 320mm 
18ZR/18ZL is the Cayenne S, Cayenne Turbo, Touareg V10 Caliper, Audi Q7 for 350mm
Than there is a larger 'E81' Porsche turbo power kit upgrade caliper that is red and identified by a different shape than the normal brembo 6 pistons... it swings a 380mm rotor


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

are these tags cast or marked somewhere on the calipers? i took a hard look at them while trying to get all the junkyard gunk off of them and other than the "brembo" casting i didn't see anything.


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## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_are these tags cast or marked somewhere on the calipers? i took a hard look at them while trying to get all the junkyard gunk off of them and other than the "brembo" casting i didn't see anything.

on the flat top, should be on the side with the cross over tube..... pretty hard to miss. 
look at this picture of a set I just recently refinished, rebuilt and sold.....
you can see the model designation cast into them pretty clearly on the left side....











_Modified by BrothersinArms at 1:45 PM 8-4-2009_


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*

wow. that should have been pretty obvious and i failed to notice it. 
i will try and take a look again after work tonite... thanks for the info.
just curious but i wasn't aware you were rebuilding these... my calipers are an absolute mess and need a lot of cosmetic work. how much do you charge to do what you have shown there? is it paint or powdercoat?


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_wow. that should have been pretty obvious and i failed to notice it. 
i will try and take a look again after work tonite... thanks for the info.
just curious but i wasn't aware you were rebuilding these... my calipers are an absolute mess and need a lot of cosmetic work. how much do you charge to do what you have shown there? is it paint or powdercoat?

powdercoat..... IMO, paint doesn't hold up well in the long term... 
PM me and I'll get back to you. It would all depend on whether they just need a cosmetic redo,, ie strip them completely down, media blast, powder coat and rebuild, or if you would require new seals or even pistons,, anyway, feel free to snap a pic of yours and send it my way (email address is to the left) I have cores in stock already.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrothersinArms* »_
powdercoat..... IMO, paint doesn't hold up well in the long term... 
PM me and I'll get back to you. It would all depend on whether they just need a cosmetic redo,, ie strip them completely down, media blast, powder coat and rebuild, or if you would require new seals or even pistons,, anyway, feel free to snap a pic of yours and send it my way (email address is to the left) I have cores in stock already.

i took pics last night but having trouble downloading to photobucket right now...


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

18ZR... so this is for the 350mm?


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

Yeah, that's it. 
Is that Cayenne SS brake line? look sick!http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Now try to get some mounting hardwares.


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

Nice, how much did you pay for those at a junkyard?


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Doesn't matter if it says 17 or 18. Both will work as a 350mm. They just have been stamped and painted differently for different applications but are the same caliper itself. The brake pad is only slightly different, but mount up the same. 
Again, only saying this so guys out there that have 17 stamped calipers have nothing to worry about


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

That line looks like a retrofit. A Cayenne has a small metal line coming out of it, then into the SS line. That looks like a banjo with that degree. Could be some he snagged off a vehicle that had been retrofitted already.


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

yes it's a retrofit. a friend tried making me a set out of parts but it didn't work out (defective banjo bolt). a local race shop custom makes their own lines and i'm hoping to ask them if they can fab something together for me. i have an old ECS retrofit line that i got from someone on the golfmkv board to use as a template because the braided sleeve is damaged (crushed from the corner of something heavy sitting on it)...
i actually had another set of ecs stage 5's that i had bought from a listmember here on vwvortex, but they were trashed because of poor packaging/shipping, missing the original mounting hardware, etc. and paypal screwed me over when i tried to claim so i had to sell it all off in parts to recoup my losses.








these calipers i bought off craigslist from someone who got them from a wrecker in ontario (canada). i paid $400cdn for them because they were in such bad cosmetic condition (abandoned project). it included pads but they are junk because they are cracked. i was hoping BrothersinArms could help me save them because i was going to use POR-15 on them, but haven't found the time.



_Modified by Benjamin T at 11:00 AM 8/5/2009_


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

You can always order a set of ECS brake line:
ECS Stainless Steel Brake Line ES#250193
$69.90


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_You can always order a set of ECS brake line:
ECS Stainless Steel Brake Line ES#250193
$69.90

i don't know if ECS will sell those separately either


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

I guess they're not selling those any more. Though you can still look it up. I bought a pair a few months back w/ no problem. Oh well.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

ECS is being buttheads and I put an order out for those brake lines and a few other hardware parts that were on their website. A day later, I guy named David called me back, after the shipping department noticed that it was shipping to where I work <a Porsche dealership> and told me he could not send me those parts unless I had proof that I bought their Stage 5 brake kit. I spoke to the manager as well, and still a big fat NO!!! lol... So I was told by the guys at Istooks that these Stoptech lines should work.
950.33013
I was told those are MKIV Golf R32 front brake lines that have a 45 degree direct connection that will screw straight into the caliper without a banjo. I haven't go the brake lines yet, so I'll keep ya'll posted on that.


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

Don't forget people...you will also need 12.5mm spacers if you run stock wheels, and that's I wouldn't do anything under 18" rims either. Get those together or you will either get stuck w/ no car or slap on the old brakes, which is quite a bummer.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

The stoptech lines work that is what I am using.
You need to grind some material off and use 12mm spacers or stock wheels did it for over 18 months with no problem. My new wheels are 17s as well and work fine. 
Still haven't tried the recent MB rotor find I returned the early ML rotor I had but too many other things going on and haven't had time to order and test the new ones.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Here is my parts list so far if you're interested in picking at it. However, I will have pics ect ect when I do the full write up, but like myself, I'm sure a lot of ppl are antzy to get these things going now








Parts list:
2 rotors (2008 Mercedes ML63 AMG or GL450)
2 silver calipers (2003-2006 Porsche Cayenne S) <will require modifying>
1 set of pads (2003-2006 Porsche Cayenne S)
1 set of front stainless steel brake lines (950.33013 Stoptech) <non-banjo style>
2 brake wear sensors (2003-2006 Porsche Cayenne S or non S)
1 brake caliper hardware (2003-2006 Porsche Cayenne S or non S) 
2 hub centric rings (OD 67mm and ID 65mm) <will require modifying>
4 bronze cast bushings (OD 16mm and ID 14mm x 12mm long)
4 10.9 harden bolts (50mm long x 14mm dia x 2.0 thread pitch)
4 harden conical locking nuts (14mm 2.0 thread pitch)
4 12.5 wheel spacers from ECS (and extended bolts)


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

If you noticed on my list Cayenne S pads vs Cayenne V6, I'm going to go ahead and try out the larger Cayenne S pads. I know, I know.. I said the smaller ones (Cayenne V6) which will fit great, but I'm wanting BIGGER haha so going to try out the larger ones first.
Also, the caliper modifying is basicly what Chris had talked about if you are going to run stock 17s.


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Hmm.. Now I've bought V6 pads because of you, Mill!







I am a little scared that I will get big un-worn edges on my 350 discs with the V6 pads... What do you think?
Exactly the same thing happened to me with ECS tuning. What a crap way of doing business. "We have a glitch in our relatively new site". Like it's not have been like that for over a year!!
Well.. I even paid for both the parts and shipping with VISA and they came telling me the **** news AFTER that. Ahrg.. I hate ECS and will never recommend buying anything from them never ever!
It's like going to a store, buying a TV remote, paying, leaving and being stopped at the parking spot, asked to deliver your remote back because you bought your TV another place...
Best thing is, when my money was refunded, my local currency (norske kroner/Norwegian Crowns) was more worth, so I got like 20 USD less refund than I originally paid.
I HATE ECS TUNING
Well.. Still waiting for my parts to come.







(from germanautoparts)
Anyone knows if original Q7/Touareg brake lines will fit?

_Modified by KaldBlod at 2:30 PM 8/5/2009_


_Modified by KaldBlod at 2:31 PM 8/5/2009_


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## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

I've got both the 17 and 18 calipers. I'm pretty sure the 17 ones won't fit the larger rotor.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

yes they will.... read a few posts back







I know 100% fact, 17 and 18 calipers are EXACTLY the same


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## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_Doesn't matter if it says 17 or 18. Both will work as a 350mm. They just have been stamped and painted differently for different applications but are the same caliper itself. The brake pad is only slightly different, but mount up the same. 
Again, only saying this so guys out there that have 17 stamped calipers have nothing to worry about










_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_yes they will.... read a few posts back







I know 100% fact, 17 and 18 calipers are EXACTLY the same









Well, I'll raise you and tell you your 150% wrong,,, they are NOT the same. I'll snap pictures tonight and post them for you,,, 
If your building yourself a brake upgrade based on that very wrong premise, I would be very careful......

here .... this should clear this up for everyone.....








the top caliper is a 18ZL from a Cayenne S, the bottom caliper is a 17ZL from a Cayenne. As you can see, the casting a very different and the shape of the mounting tabs is also very different. The 18ZL caliper has larger tabs that space the caliper out the extra .5" from the hub.
BUT.... all that aside, there is one very large difference that matters almost as much as fit. the 17ZL/R caliper and the 18ZL/R caliper have different size pistons. the smaller caliper actually has larger pistons than the larger. While I don't claim to know why Porsche did this, my guess would be to provide the same brake feel out of the smaller rotor. The 18 has a 30/34/38 piston sell setup and the 17 has a 34/36/38.
If you have any questions regarding these, feel free to PM me,,, I have a ton of them sitting around and rebuild them with regularity. 

_Modified by BrothersinArms at 8:44 PM 8-5-2009_


_Modified by BrothersinArms at 8:50 PM 10-7-2009_


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## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_
18ZR... so this is for the 350mm?

Correct.... did you happen to take a picture showing the pistons and seals?


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrothersinArms* »_Correct.... did you happen to take a picture showing the pistons and seals?

oh sorry i forgot to include that... not good pictures i'm afraid (too lazy to take the dismantle the pads/retainers):


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## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_Parts list:
4 bronze cast bushings (OD 16mm and ID 14mm x 12mm long)
4 10.9 harden bolts (50mm long x 14mm dia x 2.0 thread pitch)
4 harden conical locking nuts (14mm 2.0 thread pitch)

there is also a much better way to do this rather than run an m14 bolt with a busing as a sleeve.....
If I may make a suggestion _(and I would obviously love if you bought them from me, but feel free to do some research and make your own)_,, I prefer to run a shoulder (stripper) bolt in M16, and turn the end down to m14 to accept the narrower ID of the hub. This gets you grade 12.9 bolt, that perfectly steps from the caliper 16mm to the upright 14mm and than threads with a n M12-1.75 locking nut.
If anyone is interested in a set, or just wants a picture (and maybe some help with the specs/supply list to make their own) also feel free to PM me.


_Modified by BrothersinArms at 11:21 PM 8-5-2009_


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Well, I guess I have to learn to hold back my general statements that "they are EXACTLY the same". .... But I will tell you that I work soley with Porsche, and yes these two calipers should (key word "should") work with the rotors I have lined out. I have personally pulled up all the suspension and braking systems in PET and measured all these things.
Again, I will repost this:
1. Control Arms are the same
2. Carriers are the same
3. Rotors are same height of 68.5mm 
4. S pads have slight more grith top and bottom vs V6 but have the same and yes I will say EXACTLY the same mounting from left to right. Now, on this, both V6 and S pads drop down in my silver S calipers, so I'm sure they should fit into the base calipers. 
Now I haven't mic'd out the mounting girths points, dia of the pistons, and a four leaf clover that some German may have forged in the side of a Cayenne V6 caliper







, but overall "mounting wise" they should mount up either way. If you still question it, when I get to work in the morning, I'll be glad to give you a picture show from some screen capting of PET of all the part numbers and PET pictures Porsche has designed.
The only thing I haven't done, is lad out both Cayenne S and Cayenne V6 calipers side by side and measured every area to compare them. However, I have done that on every other suspension and brake part. Everything else matches up that would effect braking mounting distances.
IMO, again.... mounting wise, you "should" be golden with 17 or 18 calipers with the rotors I posted.
Also, I don't have a set of Cayenne V6 calipers in front of me to actually 110% back up that I have it mounted, but what I will say, if you got the calipers, get your hands on one of the rotors that I'm "suggesting". If it doesn't work, get a measuring device and get on ATE website and do some math. At least you will have a reference point to go off of








But I'm thinking I'm right on this one, so I'm just waiting to see someone with a 17 stamped Cayenne V6 caliper say I was wrong. But I can say I'm right so far







Cheers


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

oh but I would like to get my hands on those bolts. Those have been the biggest pain in the butt to get my hands on. The bronze bushing where the only things I could find at the moment (and not my best choice), but Ryan, what will you charge for a set of those bolts?
Almost got away by buying them from ECS, but they cancelled my order


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## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_But I'm thinking I'm right on this one, so I'm just waiting to see someone with a 17 stamped Cayenne V6 caliper say I was wrong. But I can say I'm right so far







Cheers

I'm having hard time understanding how you can claim the calipers are the same, when you said you have not even measured them... 
I assure you as someone who has all 3 sizes of Porsche calipers sitting in his workshop that they are different. As for someone with a 17 marked caliper miking it against an 18 marked, I will gladly measure them all up for you..
I would highly recommend if your going to do a build DIY, you make sure your clear as to what parts people should buy. I know I would be pissed if I was told they were all the same and ended up buying something I could not use. I'm sure your setup works fine, but it does so with a very specific part.

_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_oh but I would like to get my hands on those bolts. Those have been the biggest pain in the butt to get my hands on. The bronze bushing where the only things I could find at the moment (and not my best choice), but Ryan, what will you charge for a set of those bolts?
Almost got away by buying them from ECS, but they cancelled my order









the ECS bolt is bespoke to them, but this is def. as good.... I got another PM to do some so I might gather up a list of interested people and turn a bunch of sets... 



_Modified by BrothersinArms at 12:10 AM 8-6-2009_


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Beware of shady dealings with Ryan^^^
You can find plenty of history on Audiworld. 
He also used to go by GolfRSi
Dave


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## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_Beware of shady dealings with Ryan^^^
You can find plenty of history on Audiworld. 
He also used to go by GolfRSi
Dave

Dave who? And what did I do to obviously bother you???? you profile info is less than complete so it's kinda hard to discuss....
Obviously you are most likely talking about old/old days of the Piano black group buy... But I assure you that is a think of the past... I have made amends or at least offered with anyone who was left out in that.... I spend a lot of time these days on Quattroworld and don;t seem to have many problems. 
_Just an FYI, For those unaware, what 'dave' is back handily trying to elude to. this was back ~5 years ago I started a group buy for custom sets of piano black trim. In an attempt to meet a market demand I set up a system where I would spray the wood trim and provide up front so there was very little down time. Well, as most good ideas go, I had to much interest buyers took way to long to complete their install and get core sets back to me. (would it surprise you that I still get core sets back to this day) anyway, what was supposed to be a 2 week turnaround per set, started getting stretched further and further out. In the end it just broke down.... there were only a few casualties and those who I could get ahold of or reached-out to me I clearly offered to make whole._


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrothersinArms* »_
Dave who? And what did I do to obviously bother you???? you profile info is less than complete so it's kinda hard to discuss....
Obviously you are most likely talking about old/old days of the Piano black group buy... But I assure you that is a think of the past... I have made amends or at least offered with anyone who was left out in that.... I spend a lot of time these days on Quattroworld and don;t seem to have many problems. 
_Just an FYI, For those unaware, what 'dave' is back handily trying to elude to. this was back ~5 years ago I started a group buy for custom sets of piano black trim. In an attempt to meet a market demand I set up a system where I would spray the wood trim and provide up front so there was very little down time. Well, as most good ideas go, I had to much interest buyers took way to long to complete their install and get core sets back to me. (would it surprise you that I still get core sets back to this day) anyway, what was supposed to be a 2 week turnaround per set, started getting stretched further and further out. In the end it just broke down.... there were only a few casualties and those who I could get ahold of or reached-out to me I clearly offered to make whole._

Actually no . . . I'll dig up a few posts.
Dave


_Modified by crew219 at 9:28 PM 8/5/2009_


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## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Actually no . . . I'll dig up a few posts.
Dave


dig away.... I'll be honest, like anyone selling large quantities of items with limited resources there were situations that arose in the past that I had to deal with . But what you won't find it how I tried and more than often, reached out and corrected those situations. you also won;t find the the hundreds/ neh thousands of orders that went through properly...
I'm not needing to sell anything here, if someone has reservations with having a set of calipers powder coated (which I do as a core, so.....? anyway...) or buying a few bolts, by all means go somewhere else. I do quite fine these days. Hell, I'll give them the specs for the bolts or my source for seals and pistons
If you have a legit bone to pick with me, man up and contact me, but if your looking to just pick a play fight or be the eThug of the day, you not gonna get much out me , dig/slander away,, I'm not here to stop you. I'll just delete the thread outta my watched topics and move along.
by the way, are you this guy?
http://wiki.turbotroll.com/doku.php?id=crew219
http://www.passatworld.com/for...94700
http://www.passatworld.com/for...nt=31



_Modified by BrothersinArms at 1:01 AM 8-6-2009_


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Lol you gotta <3 syntrix for setting that all up. Just look at how he bashes everyone else. Arin, Keith, Bhvrdr and Magilson. 
You and I both know what you did on audiworld. I'm just looking for specific posts from Mirror|rorriM which involved contacting your parents over a A pillar you jacked from him after he paid you to make a gauge pod.
Dave


_Modified by crew219 at 9:42 PM 8/5/2009_


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_Lol you gotta <3 syntrix for setting that all up. Just look at how he bashes everyone else. Arin, Keith, Bhvrdr and Magilson. 
You and I both know what you did on audiworld. I'm just looking for specific posts from Mirror|rorriM which involved contacting your parents over a A pillar you jacked from him after he paid you to make a gauge pod.
Dave


ahhhh.. Your friends with Jeff .... Anyway,,,, Not worth my time then to even discuss with you... the guys a lying douchebag and I'm sure even lied to you but at this point we use the same forum and just don;t communicate. He's removed his slanderous sig and I've done the same... So, if your a third party just trying to play in the middle, it's a dead issue. Only he an I know what what was said and wasn;t, even when I posted his own emails. which I still have saved to this day.... I really don;t feel like getting into it, but I assure you, you don;t have the whole story and though Jeff and I have never decided officially on such, and though I be so brazen to speak first (as I'm sure you'll reach out to him if your friends) we have agreed to disagree on this one...
if your having trouble finding them, I'll gladly post you the links. I've got nothing to hide there... It's 2 guys going at it and everyone else splitting sides or asking questions. 


_Modified by BrothersinArms at 12:58 AM 8-6-2009_


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Wow this thread isn't going in the right direction now...
carbonfold: I will take pictures and update this thread as soon as I get my discs. Then we'll all know if the V6 calipers will fit or not. (I really hope so!)


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: war*










Take it to the IM people. I don't want to take no stray bullets here.
Let's get back to the homebrew BBK. I think we're on to something here. ML63 AMG rotors, hubcentric rings. Hopefully brothersinarms comes back and provide some shoulder bolts and we can start marketing this BBK for $1200...what do ya'll say?










_Modified by xola3que at 8:45 AM 8-6-2009_


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

I'll get us back on the subject.
After last night's post, I started thinking.....hmm... maybe I could be slightly off, but soon as I got to work this morning, I started punching numbers again.

When I compared the two Cayenne S (18 stamp caliper) and V6 rotors (17 stamp caliper), the only difference is thickness. They have the same inboard distance but because the Cayenne V6 is 2mm thinner on disc thickness, that means the outboard distance would be 2mm inward. (because a Cayenne S rotor is 34mm thick and Cayenne V6 rotor is 32mm thick)
Now, this MB rotor 164 421 14 12 is 32mm thick and when I mounted it to my vehicle I had approx 1-2 mm of play from the outside pin and the inside pin with a Cayenne S caliper. Damn near sat center of the caliper. But with a Cayenne V6 caliper, I'm not sure, since Ryan says that they are different, if the pin distance is the same. The pin distance on a Cayenne S caliper is 36mm. Can someone measure their 17 stamp caliper and see what the distance is?
Also, since they have the same inboard distance, the two calipers (in theory) should meet at the same point when mounted on the vehicle. But since the rotor thickness is different, maybe Porsche made the casting smaller and pitched it inward 2mm.







But, I don't know. If I see a Cayenne V6 up on the lift, I'll go do some measurement, but if someone can measure a 17 stamp caliper and post will be nice











_Modified by carbonfold at 8:11 AM 8/6/2009_


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrothersinArms* »_
there is also a much better way to do this rather than run an m14 bolt with a busing as a sleeve.....
If I may make a suggestion _(and I would obviously love if you bought them from me, but feel free to do some research and make your own)_,, I prefer to run a shoulder (stripper) bolt in M16, and turn the end down to m14 to accept the narrower ID of the hub. This gets you grade 12.9 bolt, that perfectly steps from the caliper 16mm to the upright 14mm and than threads with a n M12-1.75 locking nut.
If anyone is interested in a set, or just wants a picture (and maybe some help with the specs/supply list to make their own) also feel free to PM me.

_Modified by BrothersinArms at 11:21 PM 8-5-2009_

Taking an M16 down to an M14 can weaken the hardware and cause stress points, not exactly the best way to go about it. 
Using the spacer is perfectly fine and a better way to go about it imho.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

But, if the 17 stamped calipers don't work, I'll feel bad for some of the guys have may have invested in the rotors when you already had these calipers








There was a Cayenne V6 on the lift and I did some measuring, but I'm just not sure. Like Ryan said, the calipers are narrower (approx 5mm) and I'm not sure if the crest of these will fit over the 350mm rotors.... Just not sure without just trying.
Hell, I went through 6-8 rotors that I bought and took back to the dealers cuz it just didn't match as close as I wanted with these Cayenne S calipers.
SO... for the guys out there with 17 stamped on their calipers, I appolgize if it doesn't work. I somewhat did some assuming they were size wise the same, but I'm not sure if they will work. But if someone can give me all the measurements of one, I'll be glad to do some math on it and just see where it puts you.


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Measuring the pins isn't that easy, since the caliper is not dead flat where the pins stand out. 19 mm at the longest and maybe 17 mm at the shortest point on the side facing outwards. Approx the same lenght on the pins facing inwards too.
The distance between the pins is 16 cm.


_Modified by KaldBlod at 7:02 AM 8/6/2009_


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## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_
There was a Cayenne V6 on the lift and I did some measuring, but I'm just not sure. Like Ryan said, the calipers are narrower (approx 5mm) and I'm not sure if the crest of these will fit over the 350mm rotors.... Just not sure without just trying.

Just to clarify the sizes once and for all, at lunch I will head out to the workshop and measure both sizes thoroughly and post back with pics and where they differ....


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

KaldBlod, measure between outboard pin and inboard pin. Just tip to tip







You should be getting a measurement of 34mm-36mm. I'm just curious. Because if it is 34, that means there will be a shift of 2mm inward on the outside. If it is only 2mm, you might get away with just grinding off .5mm on the outer pins and no biggie cuz the inboard side will be good.
Honestly after looking at the caliper on the Cayenne on the lift, I only see two possible issues with using a 17 stamped caliper with these rotors:
1. The crest just might not be large enough, causing the top of the rotor to hit the inside of the bridge of the caliper.
2. The outboard of the caliper pin hits the rotor (which maybe just grinded slightly if it isn't too much). The inboard side should be spot on regardless of 17 or 18 stamped calipers, since height is the same.
(Theory







)
Yes yes... I'm working hard on this guys


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrothersinArms* »_
ahhhh.. Your friends with Jeff .... Anyway,,,, Not worth my time then to even discuss with you... the guys a lying douchebag and I'm sure even lied to you but at this point we use the same forum and just don;t communicate. He's removed his slanderous sig and I've done the same... So, if your a third party just trying to play in the middle, it's a dead issue. Only he an I know what what was said and wasn;t, even when I posted his own emails. which I still have saved to this day.... I really don;t feel like getting into it, but I assure you, you don;t have the whole story and though Jeff and I have never decided officially on such, and though I be so brazen to speak first (as I'm sure you'll reach out to him if your friends) we have agreed to disagree on this one...
if your having trouble finding them, I'll gladly post you the links. I've got nothing to hide there... It's 2 guys going at it and everyone else splitting sides or asking questions. 

_Modified by BrothersinArms at 12:58 AM 8-6-2009_

Actually I have no idea who "Jeff" is. I had my own dealings with you . . . (just took awhile but still received what I ordered) but concensus on audiworld is that you either take forever or you simply take the money and run. 
At the end of the day, it's simply a PSA to those who are considering purchasing from you (since you have made clear your intent to sell these calipers and your services without an Advertiser account). 
As for links: (ps: read the subject lines of posts or switch to threaded view, everything was screwed up by the switch from KAWF to VBulletin)
http://forums.audiworld.com/sh...lfRSi
http://forums.audiworld.com/sh...lfRSi
http://forums.audiworld.com/sh...lfRSi
http://forums.audiworld.com/sh...lfRSi
http://forums.audiworld.com/sh...lfrsi <--noticed you came back as BIAD S4
http://forums.audiworld.com/sh...lfrsi
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2858370 <--surprised you didn't remember me from that
http://forums.audiworld.com/sh...lfrsi <--that one is nice too
Had you made amends to the people who you have scammed and withheld product from, I doubt there'd be such a poor stigma associated with your name. _Caveat Emptor_ indeed . . . 
Dave
PS: I only stopped at page 2 of 11+ pages of search on audiworld. 



_Modified by crew219 at 7:38 AM 8/6/2009_


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_Actually I have no idea who "Jeff" is. I had my own dealings with you . . . (just took awhile but still received what I ordered) but concensus on audiworld is that you either take forever or you simply take the money and run.
 
Jeff, is the Mirror|rirroM you so interestingly posted a ton of links from above.... and as I said, there are 2 sides to every story and jeff was very vocal about his.... What would you respond to I if quoted some of the very nice things written about yourself? Would you say they are entirely accurate, or some shade of grey? I really don;t want to get into a pissing match,,,, there are some things I could have done a ton better, but,,, I'm not gonna sit here and accept a chastising from someone who so obviously is not the saint they want to appear to be.... 

_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_Had you made amends to the people who you have scammed and withheld product from, I doubt there'd be such a poor stigma associated with your name. _Caveat Emptor_ indeed . . . 

I've got nothing to hide, I post on both AW and QW and everyone knows my screen name... as I've stated numerous times (none of which you felt so confident to post), if anyone feels wronged, I gladly do what ever I can to correct the situation. To be honest there are still 5 names outstanding who never received their $50 deposit back,,, mind you that is 5 out of about 50. I reached out-to those 5 years ago and I still know who they are and if they ever reach out I would rectify them in heartbeat.
Anyway, now that *we* have officially ruined this thread, maybe you will be so man enough to reply to the PM i sent you last night that we can take this to private. My guess if though that you have nothing more to say, and your entire intention was not a mature conversation, but rather a drive by slandering.


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrothersinArms* »_ 
Jeff, is the Mirror|rirroM you so interestingly posted a ton of links from above.... and as I said, there are 2 sides to every story and jeff was very vocal about his.... What would you respond to I if quoted some of the very nice things written about yourself? Would you say they are entirely accurate, or some shade of grey? I really don;t want to get into a pissing match,,,, there are some things I could have done a ton better, but,,, I'm not gonna sit here and accept a chastising from someone who so obviously is not the saint they want to appear to be.... 
I've got nothing to hide, I post on both AW and QW and everyone knows my screen name... as I've stated numerous times (none of which you felt so confident to post), if anyone feels wronged, I gladly do what ever I can to correct the situation. To be honest there are still 5 names outstanding who never received their $50 deposit back,,, mind you that is 5 out of about 50. I reached out-to those 5 years ago and I still know who they are and if they ever reach out I would rectify them in heartbeat.
Anyway, now that *we* have officially ruined this thread, maybe you will be so man enough to reply to the PM i sent you last night that we can take this to private. My guess if though that you have nothing more to say, and your entire intention was not a mature conversation, but rather a drive by slandering.

As I mentioned, my post is to inform those who may consider dealing with you. 
Read the threads . . . you kept people waiting for many many months and I think over a year . . . did you pay interest on top of your refunds? Nope. You should have. 
Slander? Hardly. 
BTW, your pm just said "Who are you?" I suppose I'm not a man because my popup blocker filtered it out . . .








Dave


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (crew219)*

Running a small business has it challenges and chaos, as I know from my own experience. The fact that Ryan is still here and willing to make things right is enough to earn my business. Highly customizing works demand much time and attention and I don't see how he can manage to constantly answering people emails, phone calls while defending his name and doing some works. No need for more bashing so we can move on w/ this sick BBK upgrade.




_Modified by xola3que at 1:46 PM 8-6-2009_


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Ok, on the hub centric rings, screw Lakeshore Wheel and Tire! lol... Still haven't got my rings and three weeks in. I have tried over and over to contact them in regards to it and no luck. However, I found them MUCH cheaper at discount direct.
http://www.discounttiredirect....s.jsp
I called and gave them the size I was looking for and BaaaM! in stock and have them tomorrow for under $20 USD. So hopefully I'll have everything up and running this Sat!


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_Ok, on the hub centric rings, screw Lakeshore Wheel and Tire! lol... Still haven't got my rings and three weeks in. I have tried over and over to contact them in regards to it and no luck. However, I found them MUCH cheaper at discount direct.
http://www.discounttiredirect....s.jsp
I called and gave them the size I was looking for and BaaaM! in stock and have them tomorrow for under $20 USD. So hopefully I'll have everything up and running this Sat!

Since you only need 2 really I'd be willing to buy the other two off you. let me know.


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

okay i'm stupid... does the ring go onto the hub first, and then the rotor goes on top of it, or is it the other way around?


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Well, you will probably have to do some mod'n to the rings to the edges to fit flush, but wont really know that till tommorrow. But it will be just like a hub centric ring for wheels. Put the ring on the hub first, then put the rotor on top of it. 
As for my extra rings, if I don't screw one up lol sure


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_Well, you will probably have to do some mod'n to the rings to the edges to fit flush, but wont really know that till tommorrow. But it will be just like a hub centric ring for wheels. Put the ring on the hub first, then put the rotor on top of it. 
As for my extra rings, if I don't screw one up lol sure









so how are you going about modify the rings? Trim the lip off or the flange?


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Dunno yet.... I'll have to see when I get them. 
I assume if I have to modify them, I will have to trim the lip and/or reduce the thickness (with a grinder) to make sure it doesn't hit the back of the wheel.
But again, I won't know for sure till tomorrow. Hell, I might get lucky and not have to do anything to it, but with this job, I'm sure that will not be the case lol


_Modified by carbonfold at 4:10 PM 8/6/2009_


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

ok, quick update, but only pictures at the moment. Write up will be tomorrow, when I'm not so tired, but here is the system I've been posting about put together.
I know, I know... crappy pictures and BLOWN way up... I'll resize them tomorrow as well.


















































































_Modified by carbonfold at 1:08 AM 8/9/2009_


_Modified by carbonfold at 1:09 AM 8/9/2009_


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

that looks absolutely amazing. waiting for write up.


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Nice!!
I received my package from Germanautoparts just now. I'll test fit with my 17" calipers today.
Need to get hold of some bolts/washers/nuts, brake lines and the center rings before I can test it for real...


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Bad news from my side...








The 17" calipers will not fit with 350 mm discs what-so-ever...
The mounting holes in the caliper is about 15 mm too far away from the mounting holes on the wheel hub. There is no way to enlarge the mounting hole either, because then there would not be any metal left to mount the bolt to...
Crap.








Anyone got 18" calipers for sale??


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (KaldBlod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KaldBlod* »_Bad news from my side...








The 17" calipers will not fit with 350 mm discs what-so-ever...
The mounting holes in the caliper is about 15 mm too far away from the mounting holes on the wheel hub. There is no way to enlarge the mounting hole either, because then there would not be any metal left to mount the bolt to...
Crap.








Anyone got 18" calipers for sale??

That's a bummer, man. 
Email slayerrule ( http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...51929 ) He have a set for sale a while back


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

I wonder if the Scirocco is different on mounting points than a typical MKV? Because mounting points on a 17 or 18 stamp caliper is the same.


----------



## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Mounting the caliper is no problem with the original 312 mm disc, but with these big discs, it is not possible.
The Scirocco has the same brake discs as the MkV and A3 8P. I'm pretty sure that everything else is the same too. I could check ETKA to make sure...


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## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_I wonder if the Scirocco is different on mounting points than a typical MKV? Because mounting points on a 17 or 18 stamp caliper is the same.

that's prob the point of confusion here.... there 17 and 18 caliper has the exact same mounting points, but with the 18, they are slightly taller (longer? depending on how you see it) to push the caliper body out and allow the 350mm rotor to swing inside it...


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: (KaldBlod)*

So if you mounted the caliper and the ML63 rotor, I'm guessing the outer pin is hitting the rotor? (kinda what I was thinking it might happen after what Ryan said). But in the math and distance, I would say the inboard of the rotor should be fine.
I'm just kinda lost to where 15mm away too much are you talking about? Meaning the caliper mounts too high towards the outer dia of the wheel? Or 15 mm too much toward the backside of the face of the wheel? 
15mm is alot, I was thinking you might have 5mm less on the outside, making problems for the outboard pin hitting the rotor, but that could be easily fixed. Maybe you can put the rotor up on the car, then put your caliper up (mounted with a bolt) and snap a picture and post it. I'm curious to where this 15mm too much is.


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_So if you mounted the caliper and the ML63 rotor, I'm guessing the outer pin is hitting the rotor? (kinda what I was thinking it might happen after what Ryan said). But in the math and distance, I would say the inboard of the rotor should be fine.


wrong axis...... your thinking Y, go X.... The inside of the actual monobloc is likely hitting the outside edge of the rotor....


----------



## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_So if you mounted the caliper and the ML63 rotor, I'm guessing the outer pin is hitting the rotor? (kinda what I was thinking it might happen after what Ryan said). But in the math and distance, I would say the inboard of the rotor should be fine.
I'm just kinda lost to where 15mm away too much are you talking about? Meaning the caliper mounts too high towards the outer dia of the wheel? Or 15 mm too much toward the backside of the face of the wheel? 
15mm is alot, I was thinking you might have 5mm less on the outside, making problems for the outboard pin hitting the rotor, but that could be easily fixed. Maybe you can put the rotor up on the car, then put your caliper up (mounted with a bolt) and snap a picture and post it. I'm curious to where this 15mm too much is. 

Oh I think you misunderstood me there... The disc height is correct. The pins is not a problem, but the mounting eyelets is. I took a picture, but I'm still at work/the garage. Pictures later.
But the case is that the caliper can not be mounted, beacuse the mounting eyelet (the hole) on the wheel hub can be seen outside the mounting eyelet on the caliper. In other words: the caliper is way too short for 350 mm discs!


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Correct. Outer pin on caliper hitting outside edge of rotor facing the wheel. (I was meaning inboard as the inside of the rotor face should be good).
I guess that is correct verbage, but I could be wrong on the verbage, but I agree with you that the inside of the actual monobloc is likely hitting the outside edge of the rotor....


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

less verbage, more pics!


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (KaldBlod)*

Yeah, like I said. The two legs are too short on the 17ZL/R calipers for 350mm rotors, that's what Kaldblod means by 15mm short. The mounting hole doesn't meet because the 350mm jack it way outward.










_Modified by xola3que at 3:13 PM 8-10-2009_


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## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_Correct. Outer pin on caliper hitting outside edge of rotor facing the wheel. (I was meaning inboard as the inside of the rotor face should be good).
I guess that is correct verbage, but I could be wrong on the verbage, but I agree with you that the inside of the actual monobloc is likely hitting the outside edge of the rotor.... 

again,, wrong axis...... 
I'll build you a mock up with parts I have here...


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: (KaldBlod)*

so, the caliper can not be mounted at all (with or without a rotor mounted)? Meaning the mounting holes of the caliper are closer in than the mounting points on the carrier? If this is so, IMO sounds like you have some rear Cayenne calipers.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

Well.... I refer back to #1








_KaldBlod, measure between outboard pin and inboard pin. Just tip to tip You should be getting a measurement of 34mm-36mm. I'm just curious. Because if it is 34, that means there will be a shift of 2mm inward on the outside. If it is only 2mm, you might get away with just grinding off .5mm on the outer pins and no biggie cuz the inboard side will be good.
Honestly after looking at the caliper on the Cayenne on the lift, I only see two possible issues with using a 17 stamped caliper with these rotors:
1. The crest just might not be large enough, causing the top of the rotor to hit the inside of the bridge of the caliper.
2. The outboard of the caliper pin hits the rotor (which maybe just grinded slightly if it isn't too much). The inboard side should be spot on regardless of 17 or 18 stamped calipers, since height is the same.
(Theory )
Yes yes... I'm working hard on this guys _


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_1. The crest just might not be large enough, causing the top of the rotor to hit the inside of the bridge of the caliper.


BINGO.... now you see what i've been saying.... the actual casting of the tabs is smaller so it won;t swing the larger rotor inside it.... There is no mod for this as it would require a ton of grinding inside the caliper surely causing a failure....
here is a mock up. I used B5 S4 uprights, but the same will apply, just a different 350mm rotor (I used an ML55.ML500.ML430 application)....... silvers are 18 and blacks are 17..... disregard the rotor hats, I used them to prop it up to sit flat and allow everything to slide into place....
proper fit.....
























inproper fit.....

































_Modified by BrothersinArms at 3:22 PM 8-10-2009_


_Modified by BrothersinArms at 3:24 PM 8-10-2009_


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_Well.... I refer back to #1








_KaldBlod, measure between outboard pin and inboard pin. Just tip to tip You should be getting a measurement of 34mm-36mm. I'm just curious. Because if it is 34, that means there will be a shift of 2mm inward on the outside. If it is only 2mm, you might get away with just grinding off .5mm on the outer pins and no biggie cuz the inboard side will be good.
Honestly after looking at the caliper on the Cayenne on the lift, I only see two possible issues with using a 17 stamped caliper with these rotors:
1. The crest just might not be large enough, causing the top of the rotor to hit the inside of the bridge of the caliper.
2. The outboard of the caliper pin hits the rotor (which maybe just grinded slightly if it isn't too much). The inboard side should be spot on regardless of 17 or 18 stamped calipers, since height is the same.
(Theory )
Yes yes... I'm working hard on this guys _


IT DOESN'T MATTER W/ THE PINS!!! You CANNOT run 350mm rotors because it will saw the 17zl caliper in half!!!!


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (KaldBlod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KaldBlod* »_Bad news from my side...








The 17" calipers will not fit with 350 mm discs what-so-ever...
The mounting holes in the caliper is about 15 mm too far away from the mounting holes on the wheel hub. There is no way to enlarge the mounting hole either, because then there would not be any metal left to mount the bolt to...
Crap.








Anyone got 18" calipers for sale??

you have a PM, but another idea, while not al glamorous... you could always go with a smaller rotor? the 330mm CL is another option rotor on the B5 S4 when doing this upgrade with the smaller caliper. I'm sure you could do some research and find one that works with the S3... 
Keep in mind, the 17Z has larger pistons in the same size casting, so your actually going to have increased clapping power, through the same number of pistons.... though you will increase fade, how much? IMO, it would be negligible in the long run...


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

The copied message up top was a few days ago and was something I was predicting would cause a problem. Was just having some issues understand what exactly KaldBlod talking but if that is what he was saying, was just referring back to what I said already.... shrugs..... but if you also read what I said, there are some thinkness difference which will effect pin distance. 
I would "assume" that if Porsche used 34mm rotors on a 18 stamped caliper with 36mm across the pins on that caliper, then in theory if Porsche uses 32mm rotors on a 17 stamped caliper, the pin distance would be reduced to 34mm vs 36mm on the 18 stamped caliper. Follow me?
But, I haven't measured the distance between the pins on a 17 stamp caliper (from outside to inside), which would cause the outside pin to come in even closer (approx 2mm) than the 18 stamped caliper... Again, theory.....
But if rotor dia is the only problem, do a 330mm rotor:
MB# 164 421 04 12
Fitting Position Front Axle 

Diameter [mm] 330 

Brake Disc Thickness [mm] 32,0 

Minimum Thickness [mm] 29,4 

Brake Disc Type Vented 

Finish Alloyed / High-carbon 

Number of Holes 5 

Pitch Circle Ø [mm] 112 

Height [mm] 54,5 

Centering Diameter [mm] 67 

Inner Diameter [mm] 156,3 

Bore Ø [mm] 15,2 
Info straight from ATE. 


_Modified by carbonfold at 2:44 PM 8/10/2009_


----------



## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

A 330 mm disc will work, and I'm 100% sure that I will not have any fading issues. I ran about 20 laps at a race track without problems with stock brakes, but this upgrade is mostly because of looks and because I have a "brake fetish".








xola3que is right with his illustration and BrothersinArms with his pictures. No problems with the pins - only the mounting holes.
edit: by the way - can't find the cable to transfer the pictures from my phone, but it looks exactly the same as on BrothersinArms picture. The "legs" do not reach the wheel hub.


_Quote »_











_Modified by KaldBlod at 1:35 PM 8/10/2009_


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

And yes - it will mount up with a smaller disc. Here with the 312 original disc.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Dig the Turbo wheels







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
If rotor dia is the only problem, from what ATE says, this looks to be a solution.
Information from ATE Website
MB# 164 421 04 12 (ATE has is listed from a 07/05 and new ML350)
*MB# 164 421 14 12 (ones installed on 18 stamped calipers)*

Fitting Position Front Axle 
Diameter [mm] 330 *350*
Brake Disc Thickness [mm] 32,0 *32,0*
Minimum Thickness [mm] 29,4 *29,4*
Brake Disc Type Vented 
Finish Alloyed / High-carbon 
Number of Holes 5 *5*
Pitch Circle Ã˜ [mm] 112 *112*
Height [mm] 54,5 *54,5*
Centering Diameter [mm] 67 *67*
Inner Diameter [mm] 156,3 *156,3*
Bore Ã˜ [mm] 15,2 *15,2*



_Modified by carbonfold at 4:22 PM 8/10/2009_


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

I guess diameter is the only problem... It is a little hard to find out for sure, since I cannot mount the caliper...
But anyhow - I won't buy 330 discs. I will try to sell the calipers and get bigger ones.


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (KaldBlod)*

It's a real bitch to sell those 330mm. Good thing I was able to return them. GL


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

the cool thing about those 17 stamped calipers is that I bet they fit very well under 17 inch wheels







..... The grinding I had to do to get the 18 stamped calipers to fit under my 17s was a pain in the butt







.
With that said, if I had to do it all over again, I think I would go with the smaller calipers next time http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 17 stamped calipers are plenty of braking power for the A3


_Modified by carbonfold at 8:53 AM 8/11/2009_


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## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

Carbonfold, did the hub centric rings work? Also what bolts did you use to bolt up the caliper to the carrier? If I use the 17Z calipers the 330mm rotor that you speced above should work correct?


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Yep, see this post.
http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=4517237
As for the 17Z calipers, I have no idea. Its all theory at this point for those since I do not have those calipers to say 100%. But, from listening to Ryan and KaldBlod, sounds like the only issue was overall dia. If that is true, "in theory" haha, the rotor I list of 330mm "should" work (since it shows all the same specs besides 330mm vs 350). Again, thats just looking at numbers, and not actually having it in front of me to look at.
But again, that post is some of the write up.


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

I will not guarantee that the disc with the same specs in 330 mm will fit. The height/thickness of the disc needed with the "small" calipers might be slightly different, but I'm not really sure since I couldn't get to mount my caliper with the 350 mm disc.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

If you read back, there are some likenesses of the two rotors of a Cayenne that would lean to saying it may work, but if you have the caliper already, go up to a MB dealership and see if they will let you buy one and see if that rotor listed at the top will work. If so, buy another one. If not, take it back


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

Update guys
Another vendor is selling SS brake line and mounting bolts
http://www.jhmotorsports.com/s...d=459
line are going for $110 w/ the calipers. These guys have no problem selling any parts by themselves, unlike those ESC Nazis.
They also have quality made 350mm light weight rotors if you have the mulla to burn.



_Modified by xola3que at 2:37 PM 8-13-2009_


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

I looked on the website and didn't see where I can buy just the bolts. I'm going to give them a call in the next few hours and see if I can get them ordered.
And, I want to know exactly how the bolt was made.


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_I looked on the website and didn't see where I can buy just the bolts. I'm going to give them a call in the next few hours and see if I can get them ordered.
And, I want to know exactly how the bolt was made. 

Let us know if you can get them and at what cost. These guys are super cool and they don't mind making a little money.


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

bump for updates on MB brake rotor/hub ring fitment...


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=4517237

Its up and running, there is half the write up above.


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

Got the rotors today. The hub rings will be here Monday I hope. 350mm is massive.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (xola3que)*

someone posted this elsewhere:
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/...97398
















anyone have any dealings with H2sport?


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

And... it has been done here:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-...age_5/
...and here:
http://www.jhmotorsports.com/s...d=459
.... and now looks like H2Sport.
This was never claimed as never done.







Hell Chris from Revotechik started this







My main purpose was to find what OEM parts could be used without hardcore modifying and to build it yourself without having to spend x2 or x3 the price on someone's kit.
Plus, those don't look like OEM rotors







But, looking at the picture, I see info on that list that says "-Audi TT master cylinder for proper match". I'm interested in the comparision of a A3 vs a TT master cylinder. That has me interested in finding out.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

http://www.h2sport.com/products.php?productid=213
H2Sport says, "...will fit under most 17" wheels" and are using 332mm rotors. Wonder if they are using Cayenne V6 (17 stamp) calipers or if they modified Cayenne S calipers.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

i was just trying to read the placard...
"porsche 993 rotors mated to H2sport hats"


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_http://www.h2sport.com/products.php?productid=213
H2Sport says, "...will fit under most 17" wheels" and are using 332mm rotors. Wonder if they are using Cayenne V6 (17 stamp) calipers or if they modified Cayenne S calipers. 


i thought that setup was for the MK4


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_Got the rotors today. The hub rings will be here Monday I hope. 350mm is massive.

the word "massive" worries me... can you please weigh one of your rotors and tells us how heavy it is?


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Oh, no luck on JH Motorsports. I've called them twice and sent two emails. I'm on day 5 or so and no response on the hardware.
At first they told me on the phone, no problem, $20, but haven't heard back. So dunno....


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_Oh, no luck on JH Motorsports. I've called them twice and sent two emails. I'm on day 5 or so and no response on the hardware.
At first they told me on the phone, no problem, $20, but haven't heard back. So dunno....

if you do ever reach a live person on the phone (yes i've had no luck either), can you please ask them if their brake rotors are available separately and for how much?
yes i know using merc brake rotors is so much cheaper, but if they are as heavy as i think they are...


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Yeah, I spoke to someone over the phone and they told me to request it online (which I did). 
Now on rotor weight, if you want to reduce the weight, there is something you can do about it. Take the MB rotors to a shop and get them cross drilled and slotted. That will take a bunch of weight off rolling weight. 
That is if you want to throw even more money to the project. Getting that done shouldn't cost too much, but I'm willing to beat it still would be cheaper than buying those custom rotors.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

do u think by doing that the chances or cracking/warping will increase?


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

I'm not going to lie, but I don't have rotor science 100% down to make that claim







but I don't see why it would be an issue. It's done all the time.


----------



## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

The rotors weigh just over 11 kg each. That's just over 24 pounds.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (KaldBlod)*

now we need to know what a stock a3 rotor weighs... i'll try to find out when i get home from work and weigh mine.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Called JH Motorsports again today and got the hardware coming. If it looks worth it, I'll change my bolts out and let yall know if its worth it.


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_I'm not going to lie, but I don't have rotor science 100% down to make that claim







but I don't see why it would be an issue. It's done all the time.

Brembo "cross drilled" wasn't actually drilled. They were casted w/ holes so that it won't mess up the rotor structural integrity. Drilling a rotor is bling and all but I would stay away from it, not to mention most local drilling shop I know haven't have a first idea of balancing a rotor.
Since ML450 rotors are quite thick, you can actually have them shave 1mm off each face. Safe, cheap and easily doable.
Otherwise, I would just save up for a set of quality built light weight rotors.


_Modified by xola3que at 9:02 PM 8-17-2009_


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Actually crossing drilling isn't just "bling". There is a science behind gas release and performance increase during wet conditions after cross drilling. But that would be assuming that they where cross drilled correctly.
However, as crossing drilling a rotor that was orignally designed from the factory without casting holes, who knows if you properly cross drill it. I'm not a machinist to comment on that one. I just know that it is a very common thing to do to stock rotors. Where do you think all these off the wall rotor brand names come from when you are looking for the crossed drilled or slotted rotor that doesn't exsist? Stock rotors that were drilled later


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

I think were some people go wrong is when they take some really thin rotor off a Honda Civic, cross drilled it, then complain the rotor warped. 
But, this conversation sounds like a good new thread with backed tested information to share to everyone on stock rotors that have been cross drilled and tested.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_I think were some people go wrong is when they take some really thin rotor off a Honda Civic, cross drilled it, then complain the rotor warped. 
But, this conversation sounds like a good new thread with backed tested information to share to everyone on stock rotors that have been cross drilled and tested.

i didn't get to weigh my stock rotor yesterday... sorry








H2sport got back to me... here is an edited copy of the email they sent back to me:
_
Quote »Hi Ben,
Indeed, that's our Mk5 6-piston big brake kit. The kit comes with the
6-piston Brembo calipers you've photographed, pads, Porsche 993 rotors
with custom H2Sport machined hats, stainless steel brake lines, and an
upgraded Audi TT master cylinder. The kit normally retails for $2450CDN,
but we'd be happy to honor the Vagkraft sales price of $2100 if you're
interested.








What sets our kit apart from the other BBK's out there, is that our kit
will fit under a 17" wheel, provided the correct wheel offset is
present. As well, we've designed our kit to utilize as many OE parts as
possible. Picking up new rotors can be as simple as a trip to your local
Porsche dealership.
If you're interested in proceeding with this kit, let me know as at this
pricing it'll probably go quick!








Regards,
Jordan Wilks
Parts and Service Consultant
H2Sport, Inc.

_
like someone else commented above... this dosen't sound like a 350mm rotor does it?


_Modified by Benjamin T at 7:32 AM 8-18-2009_


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Sounds like Cayenne V6 calipers, which still is a great setup for the A3 (kinda wished I did a write up on that instead). Unless they modified the Cayenne S caliper and repainted it.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

i asked some more... you are correct:

_Quote »_The rotors are 330mm I believe. The TT master cylinder is a little
larger - the brake kit will work without it, but the pedal feel is much,
much better with it installed.
Regards,
Jordan Wilks
Parts and Service Consultant
H2Sport, Inc.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

I'm sure having 20mm dia less and smaller calipers would help on rolling weight







And still get nice braking with a 6 piston calipers.
If I ever get my hands on some Cayenne V6 calipers, I think I'll go buy those 330mm rotors I found and see if it mounts up. If it does, that would be a nice setup as well


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

i thought someone on this thread had a set of the v6 calipers for sale... or am i dreaming?


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

Sold them.....


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*

Don't know if these are V6 or not...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...99506
Oh wait... -they're REAR.
....nvermnd....
Keith


_Modified by VWAddict at 12:18 PM 8/18/2009_


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Its a no go with the bolts from JH Motorsports. I called them (spoke to a Dan) and found out that they are using a straight 14mm bolt and pressing in a steel spacer into the caliper. The spacer doesn't come with the kit, but Dan informed me that he will keep me posted.
So, looks like I'm keeping with my bronze bushing a little longer












_Modified by carbonfold at 12:46 PM 8/18/2009_


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_Its a no go with the bolts from JH Motorsports. I called them (spoke to a Dan) and found out that they are using a straight 14mm bolt WITHOUT spacing the 16mm hole on the caliper!!! I'm shocked!!! 
I wouldn't go without having the spaced difference. So, looks like I'm keeping with my bronze bushing a little longer









I'm telling you,,,, be patient a week and I'll have some step bolts ready, I'm using them on my car and they work 100% fine.... I'll gladly offer a test set to anyone to try out,,,, don;t like them or think they won;t work, post up here with your findings and send them back,,,


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrothersinArms* »_
I'm telling you,,,, be patient a week and I'll have some step bolts ready, I'm using them on my car and they work 100% fine.... I'll gladly offer a test set to anyone to try out,,,, don;t like them or think they won;t work, post up here with your findings and send them back,,,

i'll volunteer... albeit depending on what the mechanic thinks of them. 
this will work on an mk5 gti yes?
do you have a picture of the bolt?


_Modified by Benjamin T at 11:00 AM 8/18/2009_


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

OK, had the rotors installed today. Got it down in 45 mins. Everything work 100%.
Just a word of thank to carbonfold for the info he contributed to this forum. Dude, you rock!!!
For the folks who going to do this, The dust shield does interfere w/ the rotor but don't panic and take them out. Install and hold the rotor in place w/ two lug bolts, use a flat head screw driver or a needle nose plier and work behind the rotor. Basically bent the shield back w/ your hand and straighten out a couple of flanges on the shield. Works for me.
A belt sander works great taking off the spare aluminum on the hubcentric rings. Just flip it upside and use some patience. Caution, it'll get very HOT so use some hand protection.
Also the pad hangs in about 2mm toward the center hub coz these ML450 rotors don't have enough surface for the pad. Nothing serious, 
ML450 weight shy of 25lbs. These suckers are huge!




_Modified by xola3que at 1:02 PM 8-19-2009_


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_
Also the pad hangs in about 2mm toward the center hub coz those ML450 rotors doesn't have enough surface for the pad. Nothing serious, 
ML450 weight shy of 25lbs. These suckers are huge!


you mean* GL450*, yes?


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

Yeah....GL450, that's it. am I the only one so confused w/ all the MB class designations.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: (xola3que)*

THANKS!


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

If anyone is interested in buying some of these parts, I don't mind supplying some of the Porsche stuff.
Just hit me up with an email if your interested. Keep in mind this is not intended for pricing wars just for these guys here that want to get their hands on some new parts from a Porsche Dealer. 
Oh, also, Porsche updates prices at the first of every month. With that said, if you email me into next month, the prices could be the same or be different than this month.
[email protected]



_Modified by carbonfold at 8:21 AM 8/19/2009_


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

I would like to know what year TT the master cylinder is from and what model TT also?


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_Yeah....GL450, that's it. am I the only one so confused w/ all the MB class designations. 

nope (this is me trying to remember MB numbers





















)








have you any pictures of your install?


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*FS FS FS FS FS FS FS For Sale!!!!*

Here it goes, installed on a mkv.


























|
|
|
|
|
|
* FOR SALE below* 
*I accidentally ordered two sets of MB GL450 rotors







. They tried to stick it to me w/ a 30% of restocking fee, so if anyone interested, you can have them for $80/ea shipped. I will throw in the set of hubcentric rings for free so you're ready to install. BNIB.

BTW, These are factory genuine OEM equipped rotors made by Brembo. Part number 164 421 141 2* 











_Modified by xola3que at 2:25 PM 8-21-2009_


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (lour32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lour32* »_I would like to know what year TT the master cylinder is from and what model TT also?

my assumption would be the 2nd gen TT... which model i dunno. you better ask H2Sport for that.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_
Also the pad hangs in about 2mm toward the center hub coz these ML450 rotors don't have enough surface for the pad. Nothing serious, 
_Modified by xola3que at 1:02 PM 8-19-2009_

can you describe this a bit more? i'm having a blonde moment... i can't see what you are referring to in your pics.


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_
can you describe this a bit more? i'm having a blonde moment... i can't see what you are referring to in your pics.

it means the pad face extends over the rotor (into the void) where it drops before the hat portion starts.. it's just going to wear a funny step in his pads making it slightly harder to remove them come next pad change.... I would chamfer back the pads slightly if this is the case so you don;t run into an issue where they get stuck...


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrothersinArms* »_
it means the pad face extends over the rotor (into the void) where it drops before the hat portion starts.. it's just going to wear a funny step in his pads making it slightly harder to remove them come next pad change.... I would chamfer back the pads slightly if this is the case so you don;t run into an issue where they get stuck... 

exactly! The Porsche's pad is too big for the MB rotor even at 350mm. I thought about chamfering it back some but I didn't have the tools so I hope it will just break off before the next pad changes or something.











_Modified by xola3que at 8:02 AM 8-21-2009_


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

what hardware did you use Xola3que? Bronze bushing or something else?


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_
exactly! The Porsche's pad is too big for the MB rotor even at 350mm. I thought about chamfering it back some but I didn't have the tools so I hope it will just break off before the next pad changes or something.










i've never been in a situation where a brake pad has _a lip worn into it_... are you sure it will just "break off" like you said? i thought the pads were only accessible from the top through the open hole in the caliper... will this lip make that impossible or?










_Modified by Benjamin T at 8:38 AM 8-21-2009_


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_
i've never been in a situation where a brake pad has worn a lip into the edge... are you sure it will just "break off" like you said? i thought the pads were only accessible from the top through the open hole in the caliper... will this lip make that impossible or?









Other way around...... rotor will wear a lip into the brake pad.... normally you see the pad wearing a step into the rotor....
Your right though, it will make removal very hard... there are ways to pull the pistons in though which is what he would have to do if the pad locks in...


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

The way I look at it, get a chisel and a hammer and knock it out from the bottom if need be








But thats why I orignally thought maybe a Cayenne V6 pads set would be good. But after looking at the little bit of run off of pad at the bottom of the rotor, I'm not too worried about it .


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrothersinArms* »_
Other way around...... rotor will wear a lip into the brake pad.... normally you see the pad wearing a step into the rotor....


argh i'm so clueless without visual aids








i'm the sort who likes pop up books with big pictures in it (centerfolds qualify!)


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_
argh i'm so clueless without visual aids








i'm the sort who likes pop up books with big pictures in it (centerfolds qualify!)









This is no centerfold but since work is pretty slow today.....













_Modified by xola3que at 12:23 PM 8-22-2009_


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (xola3que)*

What do you do for a living? AutoCAD I see http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (xola3que)*

i get it now. thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
so... what is the trick to pushing the pistons back in with the pads still installed?


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_i get it now. thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
so... what is the trick to pushing the pistons back in with the pads still installed?

I assume you mean when it's time to replace the pads. Since the old pads would be all used up, I would just hack off the extra meat w/ a chisel or something. The illustration is exaggerated...its only about 2-3mm so it's not a big deal


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

xola3que, which calipers are those you used? They kinda look smaller or is it because you got the 18s


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_
I assume you mean when it's time to replace the pads. Since the old pads would be all used up, I would just hack off the extra meat w/ a chisel or something. The illustration is exaggerated...its only about 2-3mm so it's not a big deal

I would break them in thousand or so miles,,, let them mark a line and pull them out before the step gets too large... They only take 10 mins to get out so it's pretty easy... remove some material at that point and put them back in the same place...


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (xola3que)*

xola3que: have you noticed any losses in acceleration,etc/ due to the increased weight from the rotors?


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_xola3que, which calipers are those you used? They kinda look smaller or is it because you got the 18s









Yeah, those are 18", 18ZL/R. Didn't want to grind off the calipers coz I'm too lazy, man. Beside, I already have winter wheel set w/ the Huffs too so ....They actually look much larger in real life.

_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_xola3que: have you noticed any losses in acceleration,etc/ due to the increased weight from the rotors?


I didn't take it to the track to know fo sure...but judging from driving around town, the car is much sturdier and, surprisingly, feels less grip than my R32 rotors. I guess it's still breaking in??? Car feels a bit bit on the heavy side regarding acceleration. May be I just shaving a couple mm off the other pair of rotors and see how it feels compare to the original. 29-30mm thickness is still more than enuff for the mkV. May be that will also solve the pads-too-big-4-rotors issue too since there will be more surfaces on the rotors after cutting ( at least on the out board surfaces)




_Modified by xola3que at 3:02 PM 8-21-2009_


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_what hardware did you use Xola3que? Bronze bushing or something else?

I just used some high grade 14mm bolts from Sears hardwares. I've got the bronze bushings from guy on ebay for 2.25/ea. The whole thing cost under $25


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_but actually feels less grip than my R32 rotors. I guess it's still breaking in??? 

or are you feel a multi piston caliper vs. a single floating caliper? keep in mind you actual have more, smaller pistons now... so, the brakes will be less 'grabby' (for lack of a better term) but have more range. They will also be a lot less prone to lock at the higher end, resulting in more brake control. not a perfect analogy, but I like to think of a single floating design more like a light switch and a monoblock multi piston kinda like a dimmer switch. The way the single piston brakes get there feel is by pad material. by using a slightly less grippy pad, you get the feel of a more progressive brake. With your new setup, you can have a much more aggressive pad compound and control in more on the caliper side.
you will also have less fade as a result of the 6 pistons having more surface area to dissapate heat and each one building less heat in the actual brake process.
my quick diagram.....










_Modified by BrothersinArms at 3:22 PM 8-21-2009_


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*

wow you guys with your graphs and autocad sketches put my ms paint work to shame


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_
I just used some high grade 14mm bolts from Sears hardwares. I've got the bronze bushings from guy on ebay for 2.25/ea. The whole thing cost under $25

Same here. Was just curious what you got your hands on.


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrothersinArms* »_
or are you feel a multi piston caliper vs. a single floating caliper? 

that makes sense...
I actually had have both. R32 and Cayenne set up. R32 brake gripped nice but jerks a lot. Cayenne calipers w/ R32 rotors feels like a great combo but no matter how much I ground off the pins, it screeched too much. Cayenne calipers w/ GL450 rotors is perfect...like I said...it probably still need to clean the coating off the rotors before it actually does business.


----------



## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Got mine mounted today. Feel is great! Feels like the car could flip forwards!!!








Pics tomorrow.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

So the calipers working well huh?







I'm going into another phase and trying to finish up my springs tonight, so I'll try to get some better pictures as well.
So, all the parts work out smoothly?


----------



## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Yes. Everything works as it should.
Had some rubbing issues with the dust shields when turning, but managed to bend them away a little more.
Stopping power is awesome!


----------



## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Here's a pic for you.


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (KaldBlod)*

Drool!


----------



## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Here's some more. I have a friend who's a good photographer. Visit his photoblog!
 






http://blog.naess.net/


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

Always had love the Sirocco, but this one is sick!


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

i still haven't been able to weigh the stock front brake rotors/calipers like i promised. my bathroom scale is broken (i weigh too much apparently)








however someone else gave me the weights of the ECS stage 5 setup... the slotted-only (NOT x-drilled) ECS rotor (hub and ring asssembled) is about 18lbs each, and the stock porsche cayenne 350mm caliper, with pads, is about 15lbs each.


_Modified by Benjamin T at 8:06 PM 8-23-2009_


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

I'm thinking about switching over to the Cayenne v6 system so I can feel little more comfortable under my 17s. If anyone is interested, you can get my rotors, calipers, and pads for $950.


----------



## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Quick info:
I'm using V6 pads with my setup. No overhang on the 350 mm discs with these! About 2-3 mm of the outside of the disc is not covered, but that's about how it usually works originally too.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

well mainly I want to so that the bridge isn't so close to my wheels. I mean its close and I don't want to shave any more off


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (KaldBlod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KaldBlod* »_Quick info:
I'm using V6 pads with my setup. No overhang on the 350 mm discs with these! About 2-3 mm of the outside of the disc is not covered, but that's about how it usually works originally too.

But you loose out on some of the better pad options.... What brand are you running?


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (KaldBlod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KaldBlod* »_Quick info:
I'm using V6 pads with my setup. No overhang on the 350 mm discs with these! About 2-3 mm of the outside of the disc is not covered, but that's about how it usually works originally too.

sorry pls refresh my memory... you are using the v8 cayenne calipers with the v6 pads?


----------



## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

BrothersinArms:
Yes, that's right. But hey, I don't think better pads are necessary on this car. It stops painfully good now! I'm taking the car to the track this weekend, so we'll see how it works under pressure then.








I use Pagid pads.
Benjamin T:
That is correct.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

are you guys still running your brake pad wear sensors?


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_are you guys still running your brake pad wear sensors?

Yes. Just the left side only. I clipped off the sensor harness from the GTI and soldered to the sensor wires on Cayenne pad.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (xola3que)*

xola3que you have pm....


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

oh, sorry, also forgot to add.
Or if someone has some Cayenne V6 calipers and looking for Cayenne S calipers, I would be willing to trade for those Cayenne V6 Calipers, pads + $150 (or get me a set of MB 2008 ML350 rotors). 

When I was putting in my springs, I notice that I need to shave some more off the bridge if I want to rotate my wheel lol.... So I think I'm just going to switch over











_Modified by carbonfold at 4:45 PM 8/24/2009_


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

Does anybody know what TT model H20 uses for the upgraded master cyclinder? I know the TTS has a 25.4mm MS, the A3 has a 23.5mm MS. Maybe it is from a TTS! But I am not sure. I tried to call H20 but no answer


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (lour32)*

email them. that's how i got my information.


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_oh, sorry, also forgot to add.
Or if someone has some Cayenne V6 calipers and looking for Cayenne S calipers, I would be willing to trade for those Cayenne V6 Calipers, pads + $150 (or get me a set of MB 2008 ML350 rotors). 

When I was putting in my springs, I notice that I need to shave some more off the bridge if I want to rotate my wheel lol.... So I think I'm just going to switch over

this dude has been trying to sell his V6 calipers. May be you can haggle him down some more.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4445766


----------



## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (KaldBlod)*

I wonder if you can use the 353x32 rear discs from the Gallardo or similar (Rs4/6 might have the same ones) with the Cayenne calipers








http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayI...:1123


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_
this dude has been trying to sell his V6 calipers. May be you can haggle him down some more.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4445766

I'm not sure about those. 4 piston front calipers? I haven't done the research on those, I would be looking for 6 piston V6 (17 stamped) calipers.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_
I'm not sure about those. 4 piston front calipers? I haven't done the research on those, I would be looking for 6 piston V6 (17 stamped) calipers.

Those in the link are just the ones like the big reds and other 4 piston porsche setups people swap on. 
I've got a set of those sitting in the back as well.


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_
I'm not sure about those. 4 piston front calipers? I haven't done the research on those, I would be looking for 6 piston V6 (17 stamped) calipers.

That would be a perfect project for you carbonfold. I mean, who has the ease and convenience of getting you hands on just about any parts available. Also this would be for a good cause since lots of us don't have deep pockets and this will make a great economical upgrade. Post your wwrite up


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

well, I started the whole write up on the 6 piston stuff because I had my hands on those calipers so that I could do the research on them








But, running out of funds, so hence why I'm looking to do a trade







Or trade + $$ so I can buy new pads and rotors.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Thinking bout trying to swap over to an R32 system. Whatcha think?


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

Heard back from H2Mortorsports and the master cylinder is from a late model TT 6cyl or the TTS which both use a 25.4mm master cyl., my assumtion was right. Depending on price I might install one with my Porsche 350mm kit! It should improve braking performance since my B6 Passat only comes with a 22.2mm master cyl. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (lour32)*

Almost all of the fluid flow is controlled by the ABS control Module. Just pushing more fluid from the master to the ABS module doesn't mean the module is going to let more fluid through it or any different to the front or rear wheels.


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

So you dont think getting a bigger master cyl. is not worth it Chris?


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (lour32)*

Having had these brakes for 2 years now and noticed no difference in pedal feel from it and a stock car.. no not really. If the price is right I would consider trying it but I honestly really don't see the need. If it was a 100% mechanical setup with no constantly varying bias from the ABS module yeah it would be more worth it.


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Thanks for the input, Chris!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

guys... what do you think of these choices:
http://www.brakeworld.com./cat...=2008


_Modified by Benjamin T at 8:39 AM 8-27-2009_


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

Do you guys know if I am going to need spacers with 19x8.5 et42 front wheels for the 350mm setup? Will this setup clear calipers?


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (lour32)*

Some wheel spokes designs are more forgiving than another. At the end of the day, regarless of what ET, it's the caliper that hit the spokes so you just have to try it out for real and see what you need as far as spacer goes.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

does ECS tuning still have their BBK pdf template online?


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_Some wheel spokes designs are more forgiving than another. At the end of the day, regarless of what ET, it's the caliper that hit the spokes so you just have to try it out for real and see what you need as far as spacer goes.

Exactly right which is why the stock wheels actually work even though they are 17s.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Exactly right which is why the stock wheels actually work even though they are 17s.

After much grinding!







haha


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_
After much grinding!







haha

Right but that is more about diameter, You could have 20s with an ET20 and still the wrong spoke shape so they won't fit.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Yeah. You know the job wasn't really hard at all but having to mount, then dismount, mount...... Got tired some cause I was trying not to grind too much off. 
But the real kicker is I had them painted after I grinded some and torn up the pretty paint job just to get them to fit









But maybe that will give me an excuse to pull them off and paint them a different color


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I never painted mine, I have the flat black Q7 ones so with a little brake dust on the calipers it looked just fine. Also you can't really see the grinding from the outside with the wheel on. 
Plan to do them on my Mk6 TDI when I get, I may pregrind them and then get them repainted before the final install.


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

Does anyone have spare pad retaining hardware and pads for the 350mm calipers? I'm looking to build a BBK!


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (dieselgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dieselgti* »_Does anyone have spare pad retaining hardware and pads for the 350mm calipers? I'm looking to build a BBK!










I can sell you the Cayenne S Pads (Porsche Brand 955-351-939-14) for $186.39 and the hardware (955-351-959-00) for $41.94. I can pretty much ship it anywhere in Cont. US for $5.00 UPS ground.
Total: $228.33 + $5.00 shipping
if you're interested, email me:
[email protected]


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

does anyone here have experience with a brand called discitalia?
they offer several v6/v8 cayenne brake pad options, as well as slotted/x-drilled and slotted rotor options for the ML450...


_Modified by Benjamin T at 10:03 AM 8/31/2009_


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_if you're interested, email me:

Sent you a PM...


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (dieselgti)*

Let's see more pics of this setup!


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

i posted this in the other thread but i thought i should repeat it here...
can someone please help me with this?
i've been looking for the merecedes brake rotors and this number:
Part # 164 421 *14* 12
i'm being told is incorrect?
they say it should be: 164 421 *05* 12?
also, the ML63 brake rotor is NOT the same, according to those i've called?
can someone please confirm?


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_i posted this in the other thread but i thought i should repeat it here...
can someone please help me with this?
i've been looking for the merecedes brake rotors and this number:
Part # 164 421 *14* 12
i'm being told is incorrect?
they say it should be: 164 421 *05* 12?

also, the ML63 brake rotor is NOT the same, according to those i've called?
can someone please confirm?



When I first started figuring the rotor stuff out, I logged onto ATE's website (http://www.ate-na.com/generator/www/us/en/ate/ate/themes/60_online_catalogs/20_european_online_catalog_tecdoc_us.html ) and browsed through the Europe vehicle listings. There, under a MY 06+ MB ML63 AMG, it gave me a part number of 164 421 05 12. When I called the MB guys next door, they informed me that was an old number and a newer SS number was 164 421 14 12.
When I asked them what that fit on, they told me ML63 and GL450. But, with my own two eyes (yes I have two







) 164 421 14 12 was stamped on both boxes and printed on my ticket http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by carbonfold at 9:27 AM 9/4/2009_


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_

When I first started figuring the rotor stuff out, I logged onto ATE's website (http://www.ate-na.com/generator/www/us/en/ate/ate/themes/60_online_catalogs/20_european_online_catalog_tecdoc_us.html ) and browsed through the Europe vehicle listings. There, under a MY 06+ MB ML63 AMG, it gave me a part number of 164 421 05 12. When I called the MB guys next door, they informed me that was an old number and a newer SS number was 164 421 14 12.
When I asked them what that fit on, they told me ML63 and GL450

egh. so both numbers technically are correct and MB is playing with our minds (again). the parts supplier that i called went on to say he had a separate part number for the ML63, and the book he was referring to said it was not interchangeable with the GL450.
unfortunately my local MB dealer are a bunch of stuck up (expletive deleted) in the parts dept. so i cannot confirm for an MB source








so... going back a bit further: should i get the v8 cayenne pads and figure out how to grind the 1-2mm off the inside material, or should i get the smaller v6 pads? are there part numbers for either?


_Modified by Benjamin T at 7:37 AM 9/4/2009_


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

dunno.... The orignal source was under Europe MB ML63 AMG (not sure if it is different), but when I gave that number to my MB parts guys, they said that was not a number they stocked anymore. Went to the number I listed above. 
Not sure what to say, that was the information I found. You can just always use the OEM part number


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

As for the pads, I had used Cayenne S pads and seemed to be ok. I don't think the run over is that big of an issue, but Kaldblad Cayenne V6 pads and say they work great.


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_As for the pads, I had used Cayenne S pads and seemed to be ok. I don't think the run over is that big of an issue, but Kaldblad Cayenne V6 pads and say they work great. 

Hmm, have to decide what pads I'm going to use. I was thinking about these.
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-...S5650/


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_As for the pads, I had used Cayenne S pads and seemed to be ok. I don't think the run over is that big of an issue, but Kaldblad Cayenne V6 pads and say they work great. 

thanks!
oh a few more things... the parts supplier offered extra options for coatings.... zinc wash or nickel plating, with nickel being the longer lasting one (1.5-2 years at most). it's $35/pr for the latter. should i spring for that? (there was no mention/option of cadmium plating though)
also, i'm thinking of going to a machine shop and having the hubcentric rings made out of metal... but what should i ask for? aluminum or steel (stainless?)?



_Modified by Benjamin T at 7:47 AM 9/4/2009_


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Well, if you go to a shop and have them made, be prepared to shell out some $$. They usually charge a min of 1 hour (usually over $65 per hour).
You can get the aluminum rings from Discount Tire for like 10-15 dollars and just slightly grind them down and save the $$.
As for ECS...... I will keep my mouth shut bout those guys right now, since they are not on my good side right now with some of their shoty customer service/sales business.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_
You can get the aluminum rings from Discount Tire for like 10-15 dollars and just slightly grind them down and save the $$.

i think i mentioned this already but discount tire won't ship outside of the US








i know xola3que has a spare pair but i never got a follow up on my offer to buy them










_Modified by Benjamin T at 7:49 AM 9/4/2009_


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_
As for ECS...... I will keep my mouth shut bout those guys right now, since they are not on my good side right now with some of their shoty customer service/sales business.

Yeah, I probably won't buy from them when I find out how much they want to charge for shipping. Has anyone tried the Hawk Ceramic pads before? Do you think ceramic pads would be a bad idea with this setup?


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (dieselgti)*

my used calipers came with a set of (looks like pagid(sp?)) pads in them and they have a lot of meat left. i was wondering if i could just sand them down and reuse them, or is that a bad idea for new rotors? ie. the bedding in process?


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrothersinArms* »_I'm telling you,,,, be patient a week and I'll have some step bolts ready, I'm using them on my car and they work 100% fine.... I'll gladly offer a test set to anyone to try out,,,, don;t like them or think they won;t work, post up here with your findings and send them back,,,

Any chance you have a set of these ready? I'd like to buy / test a set!







Sent you an IM also...


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

Benjamin T. If you want me to order you a set and send them to you USPS, I will gladly do so. Usually I charge 150% middleman commission but for you, I'll only do 100%.








Seriously let me know if you need me to help out. Those rings go w/ the rotors so I can't take them off.


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xola3que)*

Can't wait to get these installed! Have to buy a couple more things, but it's a work in progress.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

i'm still without hub rings... damn u discount tire!!!!


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

http://www.justforwheels.com/i...ntric
They say they service Canda $37.95 for a set of rings


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

aren't those plastic? i was hoping for metal rings... i don't trust plastic to support the rotors


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

http://www.jegs.com/p/Detroit-...02/-1
Have you called Jegs and see if these are plastic or metal?


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

xola3que offered to order them from discount tire and mail it to me after he gets them but it's been taking awhile for it to get to him first


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

Got most of my stuff in: Got calipers from Ryan in powdercoat black and rotors, SS lines & bolts from JHM!


















_Modified by lour32 at 1:48 PM 9-17-2009_


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (lour32)*

^ what brake rotors were those again?


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

JHM rotors!


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

what price for the pair?


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

$625 - Expensive but only weigh 17 pounds!


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

no actually quite cheap compared to ECS rotors... just to replace worn rings on their stuff is about $700-800 for a pair (including reuse of the original aluminum hats)


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

Do you guys know how much MB rotor weighs & also what the stock 312mm rotor weighs?


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (lour32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lour32* »_Do you guys know how much MB rotor weighs & also what the stock 312mm rotor weighs?

the Mercedes ML55 345x32 weigh in at 24.6 lbs each.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (lour32)*

i think the others in previous posts mentioned roughtly 23-35lbs per?
someone told me an ECS rotor is about 18lbs for an x-drilled/slotted version.


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*

Hey Ryan! I hope I can put these soon!!


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*rings*

Hubrings sent



_Modified by xola3que at 2:23 PM 9-21-2009_


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_Hubrings sent. USPS website told me it cost $2.44 to Canada but the teller at the desk cost me $10.00. Oh well! whatever. Let me know when you've got it

wtf?!? thatcher sent me as set of kinesis center caps usps and it was about $5... let me know how much u need in compensation


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*CAYENNE REAR BRAKE BBK*

OK! so now that I've just got laid off due to the economic turmoil. I'm having plenty of time to start doing some R&D for the rear 4 pots Cayenne calipers to work w/ the MKV. I've already got my hands on a used pair of rear calipers. Some of the challenges to overcome:
1. E: brake: Cayenne use hydraulic e-brake. There're aftermarket kit very popular in the RX8 crowd o convert handbrake to hydraulic. Runs about $80 to $150. Brake need to set while engine running.
2. Mounting brackets: I did a drum to disc conversion on my Scion xB a few years back so I have some connection w/ the local machine shop. I just need to come up w/ the design and draw them in CAD. They will plasma cut the bracket for about $100 a pair.
3. Rotors choice: Pick your size...It can be as big as you want but I want to stay w/in the OEM MB or Audi specs. The thickness is still under question.
Anyone have any info to contribute?




_Modified by xola3que at 5:24 PM 1-27-2010_


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

crap, sorry about the layoff... i have a layoff notice hanging over my head right now at work also and i don't know when it's going to fall








can the oem master cylinder cope with a 4 pot rear with the 6 pot fronts?


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_crap, sorry about the layoff... i have a layoff notice hanging over my head right now at work also and i don't know when it's going to fall








can the oem master cylinder cope with a 4 pot rear with the 6 pot fronts?

didn't think about that...I need to ask somebody w/ expertise.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

H2Sport is using an MK2 Audi TT MC for their (front) BBK... but i don't know if it's more for braking feedback as opposed to increased capacity?


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

Anyone know how to remove the pistons from this caliper to get it ready to be powdercoated?


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (dieselgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dieselgti* »_Anyone know how to remove the pistons from this caliper to get it ready to be powdercoated?

First off you'll need a compressor. I also built myself a couple tools that make the job a lot easier... One was to build an air fitting that threaded into the M6 x 1.0 threaded bleeder port.. I also have a small handle style ball valve to slowly release pressure into the caliper. Next is 2 sets of wood dowels roughly the size of each piston to allow you to work down the caliper. You'll need one long set (the distance from piston face to piston face with the pistons compressed in) and one short set, the distance from piston face to piston face with one piston compressed the other just held in place.. Then I used some thin plastic shims to block off the empty holes and create tight seals.
So, here is how I do it....
• First job is to remove the cross over tube so your dealing with 2x 3 piston banks....
• than seal each cross over port hole. you can use a bleeder or I used a brass threaded plug.
• I than use my dowels and lock the pistons place by bridging across the caliper... I work from small to large normally....
• So you now have the largest and the middle piston held in place as they can not come out (dowel is pressing against the opposite side, etc.. I hope that is clear) Slowly open you ball valve and let pressure into the caliper and the small one will start to move. I like to have a soft rag also pressed in place as when it lets go, it will do so with a pop and do so fast.... The outer row of pistons have a plastic cap and if you damage those, your SOL and need a new caliper. No replacement pistons on the market for them.... Also work over something soft.. if you drop the piston when it releases and it gets any kind of surface damage on the sides, it will cause problems with the internal seals and again, you SOL.
• Now... One down,,, move to the next one.... remove the middle long dowel and take the freshly popped piston and place it squarely back over the opening (the dust boot should have stayed put) I than place the smaller dowel in place to hold it back firmly in place (shimming to get a tight seal back against the dust boot and caliper body. 
• again release some air into the body and the second one will start to move,,, repeat dow the line...
• the opposite side is the same except instead of pushing against the opposite pistons, you'll need to place a shim to cover the hole and hold your dowel in place
• once all 12 are removed, you can start working on the dust boots... these need to be VERY CAREFULLY REMOVED. If I can give one word of advise.. While after the half dozen calipers I've done I've confident with removing them with no damage (I made a small metal hook from a dentists tool that gently reaches in between the boot and body and grab it in one of toothed opening {you'll see when you remove one}) I would almost always suggest to just replace... I just recently went through this with a set for a member on this post,, they looked okay from the outside, but after removal, it just didn't feel right... For the ~100 you'll spend on dust boots the peace of mind is worth it... If you want to order some, I'll gladly get you some as I just recently ordered a large quantity.
• after all the dust boots are off, you need to pull the pressure seals. IMO unless your on a budget, these also should be replaced. If you examine them and they look perfect than reuse, but if they show ANY signs of wear or damage, replace... I can also supply some of these...
• rebuilding is exactly the opposite. A few key notes... make sure the seals are perfectly back in there channels. I know they are inside the piston bore, but they should snap (kinda) back into place. Just make sure they have no fold of any sort. To get the dust boots on, slip them over the notch on the piston (plastic capped ones to the outside) and lubricate the pistons with some brake fluid. Slide the piston squarely back into the bore. If your not square it won;t fit and you runt he risk of damage to the piston walls. Once it's all the way down, work the dust boot back into it's groove.



_Modified by BrothersinArms at 10:59 PM 9-23-2009_


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*

Let's just leave it to the professional, guys.


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xola3que)*

Wow, no kidding!


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (xola3que)*

Ryan is definitley somebody good to deal with. The pic of the black brembos above are from Ryan!!


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (lour32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lour32* »_Ryan is definitley somebody good to deal with. The pic of the black brembos above are from Ryan!!

thanx....
as they were during rebuild..... (and as one sits again....)


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrothersinArms* »_as they were during rebuild..... (and as one sits again....)

Wow, you do good work!


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

wow that was alot of reading on a bunch of threads...lol
ok so i have a few questions.
-so the 17 stamp calipers cant but used on a rotor bigger then 330? so is will not work with the MKV R32/MK2 TT 345mm?
-could someone make and adaptor to make the 17 calipers work the same as the 18? the cost of the 17 is SOOOO small...i found a few sets for $60 each!
-can the calipers be shimmed to work better with the stock 345mm rotors?


----------



## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *surffly* »_wow that was alot of reading on a bunch of threads...lol
ok so i have a few questions.
-so the 17 stamp calipers cant but used on a rotor bigger then 330? so is will not work with the MKV R32/MK2 TT 345mm?
-could someone make and adaptor to make the 17 calipers work the same as the 18? the cost of the 17 is SOOOO small...i found a few sets for $60 each!
-can the calipers be shimmed to work better with the stock 345mm rotors?

There is an aftermarket that sells the relocating bracket that uses existing calipers along larger rotors to go with it. But the rotor/bracket cost more than a complete MKV R32 upgrade.


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

i have MKV R32 brakes....
im trying to see if i can use 17 stamp calipers on my stock rotors instead of running 18 stamp ones


----------



## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *surffly* »_i have MKV R32 brakes....
im trying to see if i can use 17 stamp calipers on my stock rotors instead of running 18 stamp ones

People ran the S3 brakes (sames as R32) on stock 17" with no problem.


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

not sure if we are talking about the same thing.
i have stock brakes on my MKV R32. they are the same as the S3.
the OP had 6 piston calipers mounted to MK2TT rotors and they also are the same as the S3 and MKV R32.
there are 2 sizes in the 6 piston calipers. one is stamed 17 they are smaller and used on 330mm rotors. the larger size is stamped 18 and used with the larger 350mm rotors
what im asking is when using the stock MKV r32/mk2tt/S3 rotor(345mm) can you use the smaller caliper or do you have to use the larger caliper to fit and work right
the reason im asking is becuase i found 17 stamped calipers very cheap but if they will not work with the 345mm rotors it doesnt matter.


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (surffly)*

The calipers that are stamped with a 17 won't work w/ the MKV R32 345mm rotors...
Check out page 7 of this thread.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=7


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

thats how i read it but wanted to ask to make sure.
is there a way to use an adapotor so the 17 calipers will work?
the only differance is the mounting point size as i read it right? 
what im saying is would adaptors plus the cost of 17 calipers be less then the cost of the 18 calipers and in the end give the same BBK?


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (surffly)*

I don't know of anyone that has come up with an adapter that would work for this. I'm guessing that if an adapter did exist the price of the 330mm calipers would jump in price... 
Someone was trying to find a MB 330mm rotor that would work with that caliper, but that wouldn't make sense for you seeing you have 345mm rotors already...


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

i figured that the braket would be hard to make as its such a small movement.
yeah i want to run the stock rotors deff not smaller ones.
guess i need to anti up and buy the 18 stamped ones
thanks for the help


----------



## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Why couldn't they just sell the relocation bracket and instead let us buy OEM 345mm rotors instead of these whose rotors are close to $1000:
http://shop.achtuning.com/inde...=1263



_Modified by LWNY at 5:21 PM 10-6-2009_


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

why would you spend a grand on those if it still uses stock calipers? hell the R32 345mm upgrade would use a better caliper. or better still the 6 piston calipers that we are talking about here


----------



## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

*FV-QR*

That's what I mean, sell just the little bracket and maybe the dust shield, then we could get OEM rotors and have a BBK for less than $500. But they had to add some fancy over the top Alcon 2pc rotors. We are retaining the OEM 1 piston caliper, why are they providing an all out rotor?


----------



## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_
beggar can't be chooser....
Its not begging. They make just the relocation bracket for many other cars like the A4, where they can get larger rotors for just the cost of the bracket and larger OEM (or equiv) rotors. Why isn't there anyone making it for the A3/GTI?


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (LWNY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LWNY* »_Its not begging. They make just the relocation bracket for many other cars like the A4, where they can get larger rotors for just the cost of the bracket and larger OEM (or equiv) rotors. Why isn't there anyone making it for the A3/GTI?

For a number of reasons, It's not going to work,,,, Long answer.... here is why....
there are 2 types of monobloc caliper, radial mount and lug mount. The Porsche Cayenne/Touareg/Q7 are Lug. why is this important?.. 
With a radial mount, the hub/upright of the car has two mounting holes that run perpendicular {to the pistons} into the caliper. 2 bolts will run through the monobloc and attach it to the upright. When you want to adapt these to another vehicle, it's just a process of building a carrier/bracket (see the picture #2 below of my 996 Porsche to Audi 146mm carriers) that converts the radial mounting to lug mounting. Since you starting with nothing, you can easily define your own mounting space, your own hub in/out position (rotor size) and finally left/right offset (rotor and hat offset and width) to mount the caliper exactly where it should be.
With the Cayenne/Touareg/Q7 setup, we were blessed by the odds that Porsche/Audi/VW chose to utilize the same 146mm spacing as they did with our vehicles (B5 S4, B6 A4, A3, MKV, etc...). Our mounting holes run parallel to the pistons and the caliper is a lug mount so it has mounting tabs cast into the bottom. An opposite example is Brembo chose to use the same base caliper we have with a radial mount for their R34 Skyline Gran Turismo Big Brake Kit. Which should make us feel good as that kit has a retail price of + $3500.00. 
Anyway,,,, why does this all make an adaptor not feasible.... to use a 330mm designed caliper on a 345mm rotor, you would need to extend the mounting by 15-20mm but keep it at the same 146mm mounting and at the same offset. This obviously wont work as mounting tabs will conflict., (you have a 16mm bolt hole, plus the material thickness surrounding it, you get the idea) so, you could push it out further, creating at a BBK kit of ~ 370+mm (that would offset the tabs enough to keep them in the same offset line and have enough material to make the step shape that an adaptor would require. Look at the MK4 kit pictured in the last pic,,, if you role the holes in line vertically, you can see how much it will push the caliper even further out (away from the hub, and even that would still require a step shape to put the caliper back the proper offset) anything less than that and you would have to change the offset like the way the MK4 kit does. This brings it's own problems as anything to far outward and your going to hit the wheel with the caliper (or at least make spacers a huge requirement) anything inward and you risk it will not allow a rotor to bolt over the hub, upright, etc...
Now, why can they make an MK4 VW kit that fits? The answer is because the MK4 lug mounting is ~115mm so the adaptor doesn;t need to fill the same space, but rather convert everything in, while offsetting the mounting holes off their original positions. they also use a custom rotor with a very, very shallow hat to make up for the change in offset. 
whew? I think I just even confused myself....


----------



## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (BrothersinArms)*

Not to doubt your explaination, but couldn't the adapter offset not just 7-10mm outward, but also offset it along the circumferencially (sp?) by 20mm or so, this way, the bolts won't overlap.
I don't know what mounting scheme Stasis uses to mount the OEM calipers, but they are able to use it with 345mm rotors. Maybe they shift one side of the caliper cimcumferencially to get clearance from the rotor and the other side, they shift outward.


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (LWNY)*

the problem would than be that the pads no longer flush the rotor faces... the pad is designed with the same arc as the rotor. hence why the 330mm pad and the 350 pad are different. if you cant the caliper, the pad with now sit cocked one way or another... this is fine (or at least acceptable) on a single piston floating caliper as you have a single point of pressure and it squeezes with and against that,,, but with a progressive 6 piston set up, you have a much longer pad/piston contact area and are going to have less pad to rotor contact on the front and back pistons (where it leaves the rotor face) and the center pistons doing more work. While it might work, ie, bolt up and stop the car, it's far from acceptable imo and would most likely function worse than if you just ran the proper 330 rotor with it.... it would also make pad changing nearly impossible depending on how much the pad leaves the rotor face.
I guess you could build an adaptor that not only moved it out to the new radius, but also swung it,,, but IMO, in the end, the price of an adaptor still would not differentiat just going to the larger caliper in the first place,,, it's not like they are rare.... I think I have 3.5 sets waiting the rebuilt right now.... 
* laur32,,, that half sets for you.... damn...



_Modified by BrothersinArms at 2:18 AM 10-8-2009_


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

where have you been buying your calipers?
i got a few quotes in the $350-500 range for used calipers off a touareg...junk yards all said its a porsche part cross and blah blah blah. one guy said $60 each then went and got them then told me that there was a mistake in the listing and the 6 pistons are rare and $....blah blah blah.
any ideas?


----------



## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (BrothersinArms)*

The pad will not fit flush only if I cant the caliper. But if I shift the mount points radially and along the circumference (e.g. if current caliper is directly above the center of the rotor, then new caliper position would be around 5-10 deg off center), then the caliper's pads will still sit the same way on the rotors as before.
Anyway, Achtuning sells their whole shebang for $1k, somewhere else, they a 300mm ALCON rotor for $800, so I can assume the bracket and dust shield should be less than $200.


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

a braket would have to move the caliper a few deg around the rotor to clear the holes, have enough metal to be strong and drill new holes, but thats alot to go through if one doesnt need to.
also ill have to draft it up to see how much the caliper would need to be moved....it might look funny


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

i just got my mercedes GL rotors from stoptech, and i also have the metal hubcentric rings xola3que generously supplied me... the center bore of the rotors is chamfered from the inside. is this correct? if so, is it still necessary to trim the rings down, or can just mount the rings backwards on the hubs, and then put the rotor on top?


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_i just got my mercedes GL rotors from stoptech, and i also have the metal hubcentric rings xola3que generously supplied me... the center bore of the rotors is chamfered from the inside. is this correct? if so, is it still necessary to trim the rings down, or can just mount the rings backwards on the hubs, and then put the rotor on top?

I don't think it's advisable to leave the ring intact w/o modify it.
The depth of the ring is too thick so it will stick out past the rotor. If you're to run stock VW wheels, the center bore ID of the wheel is smaller than OD the rings...making it impossible to mount the wheel correctly. If you're to force mounted it, the ring will deform and that basically defeat the purpose of having the ring to correct the center of spin in the first place.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

oic i get it now... hoping to do this next weekend. still waiting for my v6 brake pads to come in because i changed my mind on cutting down my v8 pads.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

As for the questions regarding the smaller calipers, run the ML350 rotors (330mm) that I talked about prior. I haven't personally tried it, but the math looks right.
Hell, $60 per caliper, $90ish per rotor, $100 for brake lines, $20 for spacers, and $50ish for mounting hardware.... still not a bad price..... 
I know, I know.... everyone whats those factory R32 rotors to work, but you get into offseting issues and dia issues..... I guess anything is possible with a blow torch and a machine shop


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

Finished installing my brakes last night. Would have been pretty quick if I had paid attention to the fact that the new calipers have two bleeding valves! Whoops! Atleast now I have new brake fluid to all four corners...








_Oh yeah, MK5 w/ b6s4 wheels 18x8 et45 no spacers needed!_










_Modified by dieselgti at 8:06 PM 10-18-2009_


----------



## 2.0TProjekt (Feb 2, 2009)

*Re: (dieselgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dieselgti* »_Finished installing my brakes last night. Would have been pretty quick if I had paid attention to the fact that the new calipers have two bleeding valves! Whoops! Atleast now I have new brake fluid to all four corners...








_Oh yeah, MK5 w/ b6s4 wheels 18x8 et45 no spacers needed!_










Can you post a pic of the whole car http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (2.0TProjekt)*

Winter mode


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## 2.0TProjekt (Feb 2, 2009)

*Re: (dieselgti)*

looks good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

Looking good, dude!








I'm still running my setup with V6 pads. The way I see it, this must (still) be the best pad solution. Looks just like original (well, if your'e color blind and don't know that the car isn't really a Porsche).
Can't remember if I already said this, but this upgrade made a MAJOR difference when (ab)using the car on the track! Pedal feel is so much better and the brakes work like a charm every single time, lap after lap.










_Modified by KaldBlod at 3:23 AM 10/20/2009_


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## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

The pad is flush with the disc.
On the outer side, there is a 2-3 mm lip of the disc that isn't worn, but that's like it is stock too.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

If anyone needs some SS brake lines, mine are up for sale. Stoptech lines (non-banjo), front only. Only used them for about 1k, then had them off. Don't need them anymore.
$60 and cover paypal fees, I'll ship them to you for free within US


_Modified by carbonfold at 12:28 PM 10/28/2009_


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Carbonfold, I'll buy those brakes lines from you. I bought the JHM brake lines and they are too short to run in the MKV stock location. These are definitely meant only for the A4 w/ the brakes towards the back!


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (dieselgti)*

Aren't your brakes installed already! What are you using for brakes lines right now?


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (lour32)*

I'm using the JHM ones... They are run in the shortest path I could find. I thought it was going to be ok, but it starts to get tight at full lock... Not the best feeling. Tommorrow night I'll have carbonfold's ss lines installed.


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (dieselgti)*

Just installed carbonfold's old brake lines! Much better!
On a side note, I installed the brake line sensor while I had the wheel off. The audi Q7 sensor works! I didn't have to splice the wires like with the Porsche sensor wire! Plug and play!








http://www.germanautoparts.com/Audi/Q7/Brake/153/1 -- The part number is 7L0 907 637


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## Gotsol (Jan 25, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Benjamin T)*

It looks like VW is having a big parts discount. Some of these items are brake parts from a Touareg. Can anyone tell if these calipers and rotors would fit a MKV?
http://www.vwparts.com/parts-outlet-center/


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Gotsol)*

Looks like the Touareg calipers are from the rear of the car. Too bad the price was really good!


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Gotsol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gotsol* »_It looks like VW is having a big parts discount. Some of these items are brake parts from a Touareg. Can anyone tell if these calipers and rotors would fit a MKV?
http://www.vwparts.com/parts-outlet-center/

those are Touareg rear calipers, and the rotors would be 5x130 BP.... so, no,,, things there to help.


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

used ecs stage 5 kit for mk5 & 6 golf/rabbit/jetta and audi a3 for sale: http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/...09435



_Modified by Benjamin T at 7:38 AM 11-16-2009_


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## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

So the ECS E5 can take a day un the track?


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## drew138 (Dec 3, 2006)

Just picked these up on ebay uk: 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...79391
Full r32 setup for $600 + shipping.


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (drew138)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drew138* »_Just picked these up on ebay uk: 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...79391
Full r32 setup for $600 + shipping.









what was the shipping quote from the UK to you?


----------



## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_
what was the shipping quote from the UK to you?

even if shipping is $200 its still cheap


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## drew138 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: (tp.)*

still waiting on the shipping quote. 200 is probably on the high end.


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (drew138)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drew138* »_still waiting on the shipping quote. 200 is probably on the high end.

You can have this bolt up and on your way quick. But you won't get the same reflexes the Cayenne gives.
Call me an flamer but why pay $600 + $200 shipping when you can get them for $600 here???


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_
You can have this bolt up and on your way quick. But you won't get the same reflexes the Cayenne gives.
Call me an flamer but why pay $600 + $200 shipping when you can get them for $600 here???









$800 seems like a deal for front and rear! Although, I wouldn't switch to R32 after installing the Cayenne setup!


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (dieselgti)*

oh...thought it was just the front. My bad.


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## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (xola3que)*

Well guys I was about to start and mount my brembo brakes and ran into a brick wall! My B6 Passat have different mounting knuckles! Well I just found out this morning when going to install the calipers the knuckles that hold the caliper are alot thicker than on a MK5 GTI ones, I was assuming they were the same for my B6 Passat but they are not. Mine are aluminum and the MK5 are cast iron and the casting are different making the caliper mount offset. MK5 and A3 knuckles are about 3/4" thick on my Passat they are about 1 1/4" thick. Here are some pics of the knuckles I am talking about: 
























Basically the brand new Brembo calipers are going up gor sale! Looks like the only upgrade I can get is R32 345mm set and Stoptech because all of these mentioned there calipers mounts to the front of the knuckles which unlike the brembo which mounts to there rear giving the caliper wrong offset. Or is there a way to grind down the aluminum knuckles to the same thickness as the MK5 & A3 based cars. Because buying these to replace mine are way to costly and not worth the brembo brakes swap. What do you guys think?


_Modified by lour32 at 7:40 PM 11/20/2009_


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## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (lour32)*

WOW... there it is... 
Well, a few thoughts in no specific order...
Thinning down the caliper mount tabs might be an option, though I don;t think I would do it. I don;t think there is a lot of twisting load on them, but you would need to pull almost 3/4" of them- Thats a lot. 
if you did do it, you could sleeve it with a steel sleeve, though this might lead to it's own issues as they expand and contract at different rates through the year,,, might crack it... 
So, IMO, don;t thin it, unless you do it, and look for a spare set of alum. uprights in the off chance something happens... you would need to inspect regularly until you feel it's a good to go setup...
mounting on the outside and running a lower offset rotor setup? though It will prob limit your wheel choices to some very low offsets as well, causing interference with the fender. is that worth it for Cayenne setup?
swapping to steel uprights? do the rest of the parts carry right over? I know with the B5 S4 we had Alum in early 2000, and every other MY was steel, all the parts are the same expect for the front lower control arm, the wheel bearing, and the upright... so, is someone parting an Mk5 that you might be able to pick these parts (what ever they might be) up cheaply?
did you try bolting them on the back to try and get measurements as to what offset you would need in a rotor (if even possible) it looks as if you could put a very high offset hat and rotor setup to get the rotor swinging back almost against the upright, you could get it inside the caliper spacing.. This obviously isn't the same rotor that an Mk5 guy would use, but there might be something out there that could be used...
An oem R32 setup might be your best bet.... in the end it bolts up, no custom BS that might lead to future parts issues... and at least you know it's not going to blow out on you one day....
sorry to hear,,, I know first hand it sucks being the Guinea Pig for a new setup....



_Modified by BrothersinArms at 11:08 PM 11-20-2009_


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## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*

Thanks for your feed back, Ryan! I was thinking the same thing thinning them might be to dangerous! I am still checking to see if the cast iron ones from a MK5 is a direct sawp. I will check when I go to my friends VW dealer tomorrow morning to check the two side by side! Nice job on the calipers anyway!! Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by lour32 at 8:08 PM 11/20/2009_


_Modified by lour32 at 8:09 PM 11/20/2009_


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (lour32)*

There's a bunch of front MKV knuckles for sale on ebay. Let's hope it's a direct fit.
I read the audizine forum and some Audi car has the same aluminum mounting eyelets. Not sure how they rectify the problem but worth a read/rereading.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/...74285


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## VegasAIV (Mar 19, 2009)

BrothersinArms,
I believe that I have the calipers that you refinished. I bought them off of a guy on audizine! I was wondering if you could help me out in regards to what rotor to run and what I need to make these run on my B7 A4. From reading through the pages, it looks like im going to need to run a 330mm rotor is that correct? Will I also need the JHM bolts as well?! anyone input would help guys, Im a frequent visitor but dont post much :-/. tia.
its these ones:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4446461



_Modified by VegasAIV at 1:49 AM 11-23-2009_


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (VegasAIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VegasAIV* »_BrothersinArms,
I believe that I have the calipers that you refinished. I bought them off of a guy on audizine! I was wondering if you could help me out in regards to what rotor to run and what I need to make these run on my B7 A4. From reading through the pages, it looks like im going to need to run a 330mm rotor is that correct? Will I also need the JHM bolts as well?! anyone input would help guys, Im a frequent visitor but dont post much :-/. tia.
its these ones:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4446461


Wonders if carbonfold gets anywhere w/ his 330mm set up??? You might want to contact him. We are using the 350mm rotors here and those calipers you've bought doesn't fit those GL450 rotors.


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## VegasAIV (Mar 19, 2009)

I got them for a good price with them coated and rebuilt pistons and everything so I figured that it would be a plug n play with the right rotors and what not. Wasnt there someone a few pages back that had mounted a caliper on a smaller rotor (forgot the pg number!)?
As long as the caliper bolt to the spindle then it should be ok theortically am I correct?
edit: turns out the ones i have are from brothersinarms, amazing job man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
i think that im going to pull the trigger on some 330mm rotors (either Cayenne or ML350) seeing as i already have the 17Z calipers, and get the JHM lines. Will the bolts they have also work with the 17Z's as they do with the 18Z's?


_Modified by VegasAIV at 6:22 AM 11-23-2009_


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## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (VegasAIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VegasAIV* »_I got them for a good price with them coated and rebuilt pistons and everything so I figured that it would be a plug n play with the right rotors and what not. Wasnt there someone a few pages back that had mounted a caliper on a smaller rotor (forgot the pg number!)?
As long as the caliper bolt to the spindle then it should be ok theortically am I correct?
edit: turns out the ones i have are from brothersinarms, amazing job man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
i think that im going to pull the trigger on some 330mm rotors (either Cayenne or ML350) seeing as i already have the 17Z calipers, and get the JHM lines. Will the bolts they have also work with the 17Z's as they do with the 18Z's?


I believe what you need is a C240 rotor (search AZ for confirmation) ... 330mm and will be plug and play, these are also what mercedes calls their sport rotors, so they are cross drilled in the factory setup.... here was some brembo from a quick good search link ...... they also might be the same as the C230 and 280 after seeing this link from ebay.
you'll need either custom step bolts, JHMs sleeve bolts of build your own. the JHM ones will fit fine as the tabs are the same thickness on both caliper setups.... 
you'll also need some steel brake lines, if you alreday have the JHM ones, your good to go again, they both have the line coming square out of of the back of the caliper...
than your good to go at for a 330 bbk setup...
as for having my calipers, wow, small world.... the buyer I sold them to was on eBay, Andrew Asch, does that sound familiar or did they changes hands prior even? 



_Modified by BrothersinArms at 10:32 AM 11/23/2009_


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## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*

Here are the difference in the spindles from B6 Passat to the MK5 based cars:








































So I found some used spindles from a 08 MK5 gti for a very good price so I will be swapping out to the cast iron ones. The difference is 3.1 pounds per side switching to the cast irons ones. No big deal since the brembos should save me some weight versus stock so it should balance itself out.


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (lour32)*

Does anybody know how much a stock 312mm MK5 based rotor weighs? Also the stock caliper?


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (lour32)*

someone posted those weights in one of the earlier pages of this thread... sorry i'm at work can't search for it right now


----------



## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

*Re: (CLestat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CLestat* »_So the ECS E5 can take a day un the track?

Bump.
The 17Z Caliper (330 rotos) fit in the GTI plug and play and they can run whit the ECS Stage 3 rotors?


----------



## KaldBlod (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: (lour32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lour32* »_Here are the difference in the spindles from B6 Passat to the MK5 based cars:
So I found some used spindles from a 08 MK5 gti for a very good price so I will be swapping out to the cast iron ones. The difference is 3.1 pounds per side switching to the cast irons ones. No big deal since the brembos should save me some weight versus stock so it should balance itself out.

What about alignment? Do you know if these will give you the same measurements?


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (KaldBlod)*

What do you mean by same measurements? Because of weight or looking different. I was going to do the swap but it seems to much work to go and change the spindles for this upgrade. I might get a Stoptech kit or Brembo kit (bracket type kit) that mounts to the front of spindle that way I can use a GTI or R32 brake kit!


_Modified by lour32 at 12:52 PM 12-7-2009_


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Rear Cayenne on MKV*

Good news fellas,
Inspired by the solution Movit came up w/ the rear MKV BBK, I've spent quite some time did some researches, draw up and currently test fitting the rear Cayenne brakes onto the my MK5 GTI. Still need to fine tune a few adjustments and I shall have the pics upped for your viewing pleasure.
One of the greatest difficulties, which we all know, is the rear hand brakes we need to retain and we know that Cayenne caliper has no such feature. I fabricated another mount to receive the Cayenne caliper and leave the stock caliper in place. The new Cayenne caliper will run on hydraulic and the stock caliper will be plugged but the e-cable stays. The final result will look something like this.









I'm using the R32 rear rotors on my project. Still ironing out some details but I'm almost there.
Another set of revised mounting brackets are under fabrication at this point. Will be here within two weeks. Will keep you guys posted.













_Modified by xola3que at 8:51 PM 12-22-2009_


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## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: Rear Cayenne on MKV (xola3que)*

if your going to go through the trouble of a custom mount, why not add in a parking brake caliper to that mount? That's what your pic is.... 
You can get a stoptech ST10 caliper for ~$350 each or a brembo for about the same....
if you check out the bottom of this page, you can see how APR adds one to a B5 S4 rear setup.
http://www.goapr.com/products/....html
Jegs sells a real inexpensive wilwood version for ~60, but it will only fit up to a 20.5mm wide rotor. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...t_937


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: Rear Cayenne on MKV (xola3que)*

Wow, I can wait to see pics of this! The pic of the Movit brakes almost makes me want to paint my calipers yellow!


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## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

yellow calipers crew signing in


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Rear Cayenne on MKV (BrothersinArms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrothersinArms* »_if your going to go through the trouble of a custom mount, why not add in a parking brake caliper to that mount? That's what your pic is.... 



I've thought about it but in the end I stick w/ my plan due to cost and unknown mounting offset of the e-brake calipers. I have enough to do w/ the Cayenne calipers at this point







. It might look like craps but may be somebody can do a quick p-chop and see if I should alter my bracket and go w/ the e-brake calipers already or leave it for a future project.



_Modified by xola3que at 11:01 PM 12-7-2009_


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## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

r32 painted ywllow looks nice


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## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (tp.)*

Anybody looking for a nice Porsche caliper setup + all the goodies minus the MB rotors look here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4656679


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (lour32)*

Would anybody be interested in custom rotors for the Porsche caliper setup. I can get custom hats & rotors made up.


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## Be_Liquid10 (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: (lour32)*

subscribed and look forward to seeing the outcome


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Be_Liquid10)*

Hit a wall people, I have only one rear Cayenne caliper and I can't test this for street use. If anyone let me borrow a set (paypal insured, of course) or sell me out right...that will be a great help. I thought I saw these all over the places and now there's none around. Any lead would help.


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xola3que)*

Not sure if this helps, but there is a cayenne rear caliper in this list.
http://www.vwparts.com/parts-outlet-center


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (dieselgti)*

Thanks Brandon, I think the price is right.


----------



## Be_Liquid10 (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: (xola3que)*

is that price for the rear caliper only?


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (Be_Liquid10)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Be_Liquid10* »_is that price for the rear caliper only? 

yes.


----------



## Be_Liquid10 (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*

damn thats pretty cheap. Seems like I may be adding rear calipers to match the fronts. This is of course if they will work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

*Re: (lour32)*

Where buy the rotors?
_Quote, originally posted by *lour32* »_Got most of my stuff in: Got calipers from Ryan in powdercoat black and rotors, SS lines & bolts from JHM!

















_Modified by lour32 at 1:48 PM 9-17-2009_


----------



## yam (Jul 18, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Looks like JH Motorsports
JHM


----------



## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (yam)*

But they don't make rotors for the MKV plataform...
I wan't a track set up than I can use in de DD. Alcon...?


----------



## Be_Liquid10 (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (CLestat)*

try DBC Performance and see if they have bigger rotors.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

Whats up fellas. Sorry I haven't really been updating my latest on this thread, but still no luck with the smaller Cayenne brake system. 
However, again ( think I've sad this several time prior), but I'm pretty sure the rotor I had listed before should would. It is the same mock up as the MB rotor for the Cayenne S system, but smaller dia. So with that said, it should work. If someone has a MKV and the smaller Cayenne caliper, go out to MB and get a rotor. Fairly low cost for the R&D.
Also, I just haven't had the chance to do this (but I will when I can) with the new baby and stuff. However, I did go to my local VW/Audi dealer and picked up the Vortex kit. Can't pass up the deal when you see that VW has discounted the front chin spoiler, side skirts, and rear lower spoiler for over 80% OFF!!!! (you can get the kit for about $150 now without the upper rear spoiler).
If anyone needs any Porsche stuff, hollar at me! But I'm almost 100% positive what I wrote up before should be what a lot of ppl are looking for in the smaller Cayenne Caliper system.


_Modified by carbonfold at 8:25 AM 1/20/2010_


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_
Also, I just haven't had the chance to do this (but I will when I can) with the new baby and stuff. However, I did go to my local VW/Audi dealer and picked up the Vortex kit. Can't pass up the deal when you see that VW has discounted the front chin spoiler, side skirts, and rear lower spoiler for over 80% OFF!!!! (you can get the kit for about $150 now without the upper rear spoiler).
_Modified by carbonfold at 8:25 AM 1/20/2010_

meh... is this for just your dealer? it's still full retail where i live


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

Straight from VW website. However, the rear upper spoiler is still full list, but the rest is discounted.








http://vwparts.com/parts-outlet-center/

FR-SPOILER 8P9-071-609- -9AX $425*$49 *88% 380 2005-08 A3 Sportback 
SIDE SILL 8P9-071-685- -9AX $575*$79 *86% 489 2005-10 A3 Sportback 
SKIRT 8P9-071-610- -9AX $425 *$49 *88% 474 2005-08 A3 Sportback 



_Modified by carbonfold at 9:04 AM 1/20/2010_


----------



## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

can you post what is needed?
350 calipers goes with that rotor
330 caliper goes with what rotor
also part # would be cool.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: (tp.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tp.* »_can you post what is needed?
350 calipers goes with that rotor
330 caliper goes with what rotor
also part # would be cool.









Waiting for an answer...


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Just want to keep you guys posted on the rear MK5/Cayenne BBK mod. It's ready to be installed about mid next week. So stay tuned for pics. Here is the mock-up teaser. Pardon my attic dust.
Update: brake installed



























_Modified by xola3que at 2:45 AM 2-17-2010_


_Modified by xola3que at 2:45 AM 2-17-2010_


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xola3que)*

That is such a sick rear brake setup!!! Nice work putting this together!


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

what size is that rear rotor? and will you sell the adaptor plate?
what is the 2nd smaller caliper off of? doesnt look like the stock rear of a r32?....gti?

Will the $99 calipers listed work as rear BBK?



_Modified by surffly at 8:57 AM 2-7-2010_


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (surffly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *surffly* »_what size is that rear rotor? and will you sell the adaptor plate?
what is the 2nd smaller caliper off of? doesnt look like the stock rear of a r32?....gti?


rotor size: 330mm
Yes, I will have the adapter brackets available for those who interested. Group buy will be cheaper due to CNC set up fee.
the 2nd small calipers are not R32's. They are Brembo OEM made for parking brake.


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

so everything for that rear bbk is "aftermarket" ie not the stock rotors or calipers.
ball park on cost?

7L6-615-424-G is listed as a touareg caliper for $99 i assume that its a 4 piston but are these the 4 pistons that are used on the rear bbk?


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (surffly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *surffly* »_so everything for that rear bbk is "aftermarket" ie not the stock rotors or calipers.
ball park on cost?

7L6-615-424-G is listed as a touareg caliper for $99 i assume that its a 4 piston but are these the 4 pistons that are used on the rear bbk? 

Actually 90% of the parts on there are OEM. the 10% are,my work, the bolts and brackets. There will be some part numbers to remember when comes time to re-order but they will always readily available.
I have yet to sit down and itemize the cost. but not more than the front. if anything, it's less depending on where you shop.
Stock Cayenne/Touareg/Q7 rear calipers will do.
Base on affordability and availability, I also designed an alternate version of the BBK. It's an R32 rear add-on kit for those who think 330mm is too obsessive/expensive. It's basically a R32 310mm rear w/ additional Cayenne calipers mounted 45degree on the trailing edge as pictured. Parking brake will function as stock but it will hand over the real clamping to the Cayenne 4 pistons progressive calipers. It will brake twice as smooth and four times more powerful. Hang on to your grab handles...boys and girls!!!











_Modified by xola3que at 11:16 PM 2-7-2010_


----------



## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (xola3que)*

Good work xola3que, these would look great with my AMG 8-pot fronts http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

^^^got pics of that set up?


----------



## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

Anyone have part # for the front calipers


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (tp.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tp.* »_Anyone have part # for the front calipers

Front R Rotor 955.351.401.50 , Caliper stamp (18ZR)
Front L Rotor 955.351.402.50, Caliper stamp (18ZL )
For those still looking to get the front AND back. There's a set on ebay w/ a pretty decent price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...%3AIT



_Modified by xola3que at 11:45 PM 2-10-2010_


----------



## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

thnak you sir


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...%3AIT

Elian.....  arghhh.... Did someone on here buy these? I hope not,,,, I had a horrid time with this seller... TWICE... They ship junk Porsche parts from Lebanon and where less than helpful to resolve any issues.


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrothersinArms* »_
Elian..... arghhh.... Did someone on here buy these? I hope not,,,, I had a horrid time with this seller... TWICE... They ship junk Porsche parts from Lebanon and where less than helpful to resolve any issues. 



BrothersinArms said:


> I haven't deal with them but from the exchange of emails. I already knew that long ahead.


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

Now offering the kits for sale in three flavors:
http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114114


----------



## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

neeeeeeeeeeeeed in yellow
option of solid rotor?


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

If anyone needs any Porsche parts, let me know, I can get you a club price. 
Any if shipping outside of Texas NO TAX. Just pay some basic shipping fees. I'm pretty easy to work with, just ask KaldBlod.


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (carbonfold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbonfold* »_If anyone needs any Porsche parts, let me know, I can get you a club price. 
Any if shipping outside of Texas NO TAX. Just pay some basic shipping fees. I'm pretty easy to work with, just ask KaldBlod.

Or me!







Actually, I'm going to be sending you an email about some parts....


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (dieselgti)*

more pics upped at golfmkv.com


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

anyone have a DIY to rebuild the fronts or rears? also where to get a rebuild 'kit'?


----------



## BrothersinArms (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (surffly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *surffly* »_anyone have a DIY to rebuild the fronts or rears? also where to get a rebuild 'kit'?

I posted this a long time ago on this thread, search the whole thing and you'll find it.


----------



## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*

Anybody looking for a nice set:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4656679


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

*Re: (BrothersinArms)*

thanks i couldnt remember where i saw it.
what are most guys doing for paint? ive heard of guys powercoating...that holds up?
i have a set of rears if anyone is looking
willing to work out a deal for fronts


_Modified by surffly at 4:20 PM 2-17-2010_


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (surffly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *surffly* »_thanks i couldnt remember where i saw it.
what are most guys doing for paint? ive heard of guys powercoating...that holds up?
i have a set of rears if anyone is looking

please check your IM?


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (surffly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *surffly* »_
Will the $99 calipers listed work as rear BBK?


If you're referring to the Wilwood parking calipers, NO!
I'm using 26mm thick rotors, Those Wilwood only take up to 20mm, if it even takes that.


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

*Re: (xola3que)*

i ment the $99 caliper on clearance from VW
yes it would but its only one side.


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (surffly)*

UPS dropped off my Touareg rear calipers last night! Thanks to John (xola3que) we finally can make use of these!!! I can't wait to see how my car stops after installing these monsters!


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (dieselgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dieselgti* »_UPS dropped off my Touareg rear calipers last night! Thanks to John (xola3que) we finally can make use of these!!! I can't wait to see how my car stops after installing these monsters!


sigh lucky you... i haven't been able to find anything less than $350 right now for a beat up set


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

Yeah, these aren't pretty, but I'll take care of that. They came off a Touareg w/ 40k. Yeah, I figured the price was just going to up from here now that we can use them. Finding the Brembo parking brake calipers is going to be a pain!!!!


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (dieselgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dieselgti* »_Yeah, these aren't pretty, but I'll take care of that. They came off a Touareg w/ 40k. Yeah, I figured the price was just going to up from here now that we can use them. Finding the Brembo parking brake calipers is going to be a pain!!!!

yours look mint compared to the ones i saw... they looked like something that survived katrina.
can i ask how much did you pay for your calipers? are you going stage 3?


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

I got them for $168 shipped. I figured they weren't going any cheaper than that. Now that we can actually use them I'm sure their will be a demand for them! I'm going stage 2 for now, but I really want to go stage 3. I just wish those brembo parking brake calipers were more common.

_(and yes my car is filthy and will be much lower come spring)_


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (dieselgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dieselgti* »_I got them for $168 shipped. I figured they weren't going any cheaper than that. Now that we can actually use them I'm sure their will be a demand for them! I'm going stage 2 for now, but I really want to go stage 3. I just wish those brembo parking brake calipers were more common.

_(and yes my car is filthy and will be much lower come spring)_

i'm confusing myself... i thought the stock gti caliper is to be retained as a parking brake for the stage 2 setup? did i get that wrong?


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_i'm confusing myself... i thought the stock gti caliper is to be retained as a parking brake for the stage 2 setup? did i get that wrong?


Nope, you're correct. I have R32 brakes / calipers / carriers that I haven't installed yet.


----------



## ndifadvokit (Nov 20, 2008)

So i've just read through this entire thread and have to say i haven't been able to get much out of it other than a slight headache.








There's a lot of good info for sure but i'm kind of stuck wondering what the ideal, 100% working without problems, solution was for a front DIY BBK. Was there one? A definitive one?
Anybody feeling loving enough to break this down for me? Looking to do a front BBK on my A3 with 17'' sport rims. A rear kit would then follow.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

I've personally wrote up a nice write up on the front Cayenne BBK.. I think if you search Cayenne on this forum, it will pop up or flip back a little and I think I dropped the link in here. However, the rear is where it is going now


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

I looked back and found it for you.
http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=4521561


----------



## ndifadvokit (Nov 20, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

nice, thanks. i actually opened that link before but must admit i stopped reading once i read the multiple 'not completed' yet warnings.








Are you currently running that setup on your car? i've got the same rims as you do so good to see you were able to get everything to fit. although sounds like a bit of grinding is necessary. I'll have to think that one over.


----------



## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

IMO, go with 18s or 19s. Grinding was no fun at all! lol


----------



## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (dieselgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dieselgti* »_ I just wish those brembo parking brake calipers were more common.
_(and yes my car is filthy and will be much lower come spring)_

Not that difficult to find, but at what price....
I got a quote for some from a local Jaguar dealer, $1020 each








But then again, everything is expensive over here lol
He was wondering if I was sure that the caliper was the problem, as the electric parking brake on these cars are know for beeing difficult. I was like, I'm sure it is the caliper, as the Scirocco does not have an electric parking brake


----------



## surffly (Feb 18, 2009)

Wonder if other "ford" cars used a sim parking caliper?
The s60r had brembos too
as do the rovers
also would a line lock work?
What about using a small master mounted in the back ofthe car like off a bike or something?


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (surffly)*

OK, Right now it seems what stopping people from going Stage 3 is the Jaguar Rtype, Stype (2004) parking calipers. I hate to be the only one rocking such an awesome kit but dealer want prohibitive $1259 for them.
While I was doing my research for Stage 3 kit, and I haven't try, but here is a few other options, not that availability or cost is any difference.
1. APR brembo parking calipers, best in my book. Same as Mov-it system
2. Dodge Viper brembo parking calipers, similar as above, cheaper but a bit rare too. maintenance to consider.
3. Cheap knock offs from Wilwood, ect. Works but not much to look at. 
Brandon (dieselgti) provided me a link to a forum discussed parking brakes solution. Pretty helpful but sourcing them just equally as imppossible. May be he can do a kindness and repost that link so everybody knows what I'm on about.
I'm open to suggestions to another set of parking calipers. If you think a set might work (and cheap) buy them and send them over. I will be gladly revise the bracket to accept the calipers.
On the side note, the Jaguar calipers aren't exactly bolt on either. I had to lengthen them to take 26mm rotors, I think those Jag rotors are much thinner.
Pic APR parking calipers








Jag calipers.









_Modified by xola3que at 1:10 PM 2-19-2010_


_Modified by xola3que at 8:13 PM 2-20-2010_


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_Brandon (dieselgti) provided me a link to a forum discussed parking brakes solution. Pretty helpful but sourcing them just equally as imppossible. May be he can do a kindness and repost that link so everybody knows what I'm on about.


Here you go...
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/sup....html


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (surffly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *surffly* »_i ment the $99 caliper on clearance from VW
yes it would but its only one side.


Just in case this crosses somebody's mind, I thought I should mention this: Buy two right Touareg calipers and mount one on the left will not work. Although it sounds like a good idea at first, and it will bolt up, Those calipers are progressive by design, so by flip it around, the bigger pistons will put more force first and then the little one. By having one side progressive and one side, well, reversed, this is not only defeated the purpose, it's dangerous!




_Modified by xola3que at 1:01 PM 2-19-2010_


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xola3que)*

John, what do you think of these? It looks like they could work. It looks like they accept up to a 34mm rotor. Aren't you using a 26mm rotor for the stage 3 kit? They are kinda pricey, but they include Hawk pads. For 310 it could be a good option. The design looks pretty simple and has got to be pretty light.
IPSCO Parking Brake
Viper Custom Kit


_Modified by dieselgti at 1:50 PM 2-25-2010_


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (dieselgti)*

From the look of it, I think this might work.
I think speak for everyone for those calipers don't have the elegant design of a Brembo, but if we're running out of option and this could be the next best thing.


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_
I think speak for everyone for those calipers don't have the elegant design of a Brembo, but if we're running out of option and this could be the next best thing.

I have to agree they don't look as good as the brembo's, but if they really are $1700 cheaper. I'm ok with it!


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

my co worker is laughing at us as i'm looking at this at work... he suggests we use wheel blocks or a brick when parked. lol


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_my co worker is laughing at us as i'm looking at this at work... he suggests we use wheel blocks or a brick when parked. lol

A couple wheel blocks would definitely the cheap way out!







I just talked to Mark from IPS. Very nice guy! Seems like this could be a good solution! Plus, he can ship worldwide if needed!


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xola3que)*

Here are a couple pdfs with other views of the IPS parking brake caliper.
Pantera Install
Viper Install


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (dieselgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dieselgti* »_Here are a couple pdfs with other views of the IPS parking brake caliper.
Pantera Install
Viper Install

Get those calipers my way, Brandon, I'll see if it will do. Ask them if you can return if it doesn't work out. I think just one will do.
Anyone else interested on this set up? 



_Modified by xola3que at 3:31 AM 2-20-2010_


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: 6 piston caliper mounted under stock wheel ([email protected])*

People,
if you have difficulties sourcing the Jaguar calipers. You can still run Stage 3 kit without them. That's exactly what Stoptech is doing...except they don't have the option of add on the parking calipers later. Let me know once you have them and I will send over the extra brackets to complete the job. Until you find them, just put the car in Park or R.


----------



## mkim (Jun 17, 2008)

where do i source a 350mm rotor for audi?
can i juse Q7 or turag's rotor? if i were to purchase lour32's brake kit?


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (mkim)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4521561
2 rotors 2008 Mercedes ML63 AMG or GL450 
Part # 164 421 14 12
The q7 / touareg rotor is 5x130 so it won't work... The mercedes rotors can be purchased at a dealer for about $90 each!


----------



## mkim (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: (dieselgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dieselgti* »_http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4521561
2 rotors 2008 Mercedes ML63 AMG or GL450 
Part # 164 421 14 12
The q7 / touareg rotor is 5x130 so it won't work... The mercedes rotors can be purchased at a dealer for about $90 each!

so just goto any local mercedes dealer and as you said it's $90? nothing more nothing less?


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (mkim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkim* »_
so just goto any local mercedes dealer and as you said it's $90? nothing more nothing less?

Get the rotors but but they're not a direct bolt on.
You need:
hub rings,
correct bolts,
correct lines
splice sensor wires
ect...
Read the post.


----------



## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_On the side note, the Jaguar calipers aren't exactly bolt on either. I had to lengthen them to take 26mm rotors, I think those Jag rotors are much thinner.
Pic APR parking calipers

Jag calipers.









_Modified by xola3que at 1:10 PM 2-19-2010_

_Modified by xola3que at 8:13 PM 2-20-2010_

Do you have pictures of the modification? I have found a place that does the calipers a bit cheaper now, about half the price from the dealer here in Norway, so might go a head with this


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (1,3LG60)*

Let's hope the Dodge Viper parking brake calipers will work. I just found / bought a set for a decent price... Stage 3 is going to look sick!!


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (1,3LG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1,3LG60* »_
Do you have pictures of the modification? I have found a place that does the calipers a bit cheaper now, about half the price from the dealer here in Norway, so might go a head with this

The arch runs in the middle of the caliper is the spacer I fabricated to extend the caliper.


----------



## Gotsol (Jan 25, 2007)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_
The arch runs in the middle of the caliper is the spacer I fabricated to extend the caliper. 









wow that is close


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Gotsol)*

Actually there's about 2 inches clearance to the wheel spokes. I don't know something about that pic that doesn't show it...but it's pretty far in.


----------



## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xola3que)*

Still waiting for my Viper Brembo's to arrive. The wait is killing me!!!


----------



## krazyboi (May 19, 2004)

*FV-QR*

After going through this thread again....anyone want to piece together a front BBK for me?







I'm sure I can follow carbonfold's writeup: http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=4517237, but I just don't have the means or tools to customize parts to fit.


----------



## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

R32 bro direct fit no need to source calipers, ML55 discs, or hub rings.


----------



## krazyboi (May 19, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *tp.* »_R32 bro direct fit no need to source calipers, ML55 discs, or hub rings.


Will that stop my increased HP?


----------



## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (krazyboi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *krazyboi* »_
Will that stop my increased HP?

get better tires if u want stopping power


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (krazyboi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *krazyboi* »_
Will that stop my increased HP?

It has enough to stop two R32s.


----------



## krazyboi (May 19, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_
It has enough to stop two R32s. 



So you're saying the R32 OEM setup is that good? I just need it for daily racing, not track time


----------



## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_
It has enough to stop two R32s. 



he might be putting that kinda of power out. I don't think the R32s will be up to it. But if KB is just Daily driving i guess even stock would be fine.


----------



## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (krazyboi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *krazyboi* »_
So you're saying the R32 OEM setup is that good? I just need it for daily racing, not track time









I'm saying the Cayenne set up is. OEM R32's brakes is so jerky it would just flip the car over the minute you step on it. Not to put it down but you don't get much from a single piston brake.


_Modified by xola3que at 3:41 PM 3-2-2010_


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## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

whats size of the r32 caliper piston?


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (tp.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tp.* »_whats size of the r32 caliper piston?

Dont remember but it's pretty big.
I'm thinking of doing another bracket and going JHM rotors on my rear Cayenne kit. Do you guys think 345mm is too obsessive? Of course this will match w/ the front JHM 350mm too.
I'm just a bit worry w/ all the extra rotor surfaces and no pad reaching it. I will look funny once the rotors got worn down, but the unsprung weight is significant over the CLS63AMG rotors. 
Tell me I'm crazy


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## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

seems like a waste if pad is not touching all of it. as in energy wasted getting the wheel to turn


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xola3que)*

Wow, yes you're officially crazy!


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (dieselgti)*

OK, Just that I a bit jealous today passed by an M3 on the way home and, being a brake freak I am, only checked out their BRAKES. It's huge, and shiny and oh so sexy!!!


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (tp.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tp.* »_seems like a waste if pad is not touching all of it. as in energy wasted getting the wheel to turn

True and not true.
Bigger rotor gives bigger moment, which converts into stronger torque at very little clamping forces. Works like a lever.
May be JHM have a selection of hats and rings that match the foot print of the Cayenne pads. I guess it doesn't hurt to call and find out.


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## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (1,3LG60)*

This migth be of help to some of you 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...AX:IT


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (1,3LG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1,3LG60* »_This migth be of help to some of you 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...AX:IT

i contacted that seller and he has no interest in parting out the parking brake calipers because he needs to sell it as a complete conversion for non-r s-type owners.


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_i contacted that seller and he has no interest in parting out the parking brake calipers because he needs to sell it as a complete conversion for non-r s-type owners. 

I just IM'd you a few other sellers to contact. Hopefully, one of them will work out for you.


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

if anyone has their rear caliper off, shoot me all the specs/measurements on it. I can do some checking on some of the older 944, 928, or 911 cross mounting are the same.


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

Btw, if people are looking for Touareg calipers or the Jaguaur S type caliper here is a great link to search junkyards / recyclers for the parts...
http://www.car-part.com/
2003 Jaguar S Type Caliper -- Rear, from VIN M45255, R model, L. 
2003 Jaguar S Type Caliper -- Rear, from VIN M45255, R model, R.
2004 Volkswagen Touareg Caliper -- Rear, L. 
2004 Volkswagen Touareg Caliper -- Rear, R. 


_Modified by dieselgti at 1:44 PM 3-4-2010_


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

BTW, not sure if anyone would want to keep the whole system Porsche, but Germany and a few in the US has some of the MY2004-MY2006 rear parking brake caliper for the Carrera GT!
Bit pricey though. Ruffly $600 per caliper (plus pads and ect...) but it's an option


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (carbonfold)*









That looks alot like the Dodge Viper Brembo rear e-brake caliper. Nice find! Although, 'm guessing you won't find may Carrera GT's being parted out!


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

All these shortage of a parking calipers, may be IPSco worths a revisit.


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xola3que)*

As long as the Viper Brembo works I think we will be ok. I can't believe those haven't arrived yet...


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## carbonfold (Jul 18, 2009)

I can get a few of the Carrera GT calipers (only bout 5 or 6 in the world), but I can get them







Just depends if you are ready to throw down $600 per caliper lol


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (carbonfold)*

APR has the same (at least looks like it) for $1000. Another option
Update: I'm working w/ IPSco to get their parking calipers to work w/ Stage 3. This will be the basic option. If you can locate a pair of brembos later, contact me for the proper brackets.




_Modified by xola3que at 10:11 AM 3-7-2010_


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (xola3que)*

Pics of Stage 1 brackets. 6061-T651 hi-strength aircraft aluminum, corrosive resistance.


































_Modified by xola3que at 11:21 AM 3-8-2010_


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xola3que)*








Wow, those look great!


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (dieselgti)*

wow look at that bling... just curious but are they just bare finish or do they have some sort of coating on them?


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

the aluminum itself is corrosive resistance but it will received an extra protective coat to keep it looks great years after years.


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## willmk6 (Mar 9, 2010)

Any one done the front 6 pot conversion on MK6 GTI yet? 
I wonder if the R8 rear disc would fit or not? The R8 rear disc is 356mmx32mm 5x112. And I believe the hub centric bore size same as most VW and A3.


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (willmk6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *willmk6* »_Any one done the front 6 pot conversion on MK6 GTI yet? 
I wonder if the R8 rear disc would fit or not? The R8 rear disc is 356mmx32mm 5x112. And I believe the hub centric bore size same as most VW and A3.

Just verified w/ my local VW part dealer. MK6 and MK5 share the same hub/spindle/knuckle, both front and back.
Cayenne 18Z (L/R) max out at 352mm rotors. Anything more and you can't even put the retaining pins/hold down clips w/o rubbing the rotors. So I think it's safe to say that 356mm is microscopically closed, if it even fit.
Also the round stoppers on the pads will not clear, It's the first thing that hit the rotors
5X112 is nice and dandy, but we also concern about hat offset. for a 32mm thick rotors, you have zero playing room. It's pretty much have to sit at the middle of the caliper. The question is does it?


_Modified by xola3que at 10:33 AM 3-10-2010_


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## xjkx (Nov 3, 2009)

*Re: (xola3que)*

Nice thread!
Just got through all the pages, but it's over a long time, so still a bit confused.
I run a Mkv R32, all stock, and have MkVI pad covers from the Golf R.
If i go down the: Porsche Cayenne Turbo + Merc ML setup, what do i actually need?
It's either that or get: Brembo / VW-Racing Caparo Kit / Audi RS4 conversion - but these are a lot more expensive.
I'd be selling the R32 setup on completion, if anyone is interested.


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xjkx)*

Just follow carbonfold's DIY and you should be good. You shouldn't have to do the grinding becuase you have 18's stock. Unless you have 17" winter tires. 
http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=4517237


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (dieselgti)*

Sexyness in the making!
















Still haven't figure out what color to paint them... Bright red is on the top of my list lately!


_Modified by dieselgti at 11:39 PM 3-15-2010_


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (dieselgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dieselgti* »_Sexyness in the making!
















Still haven't figure out what color to paint them... Bright red is on the top of my list lately!

_Modified by dieselgti at 11:39 PM 3-15-2010_

blaaargh... i SO hate you right now


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

That's just pure seck


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (xola3que)*

Thanks to Brandon for sending his Viper caliper over for redesigning of the brackets. Now we have another option of parking calipers beside the Jaguar Stype R.


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (xola3que)*

Jaguar S Type R Calipers, all cleaned up!
















_And a few more pics_


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

does anyone know here if there is a color code for factory red porsche brake calipers? we are trying to refinish black rear touraeg calipers to match oem front porsche red calipers, and it's becoming an issue.


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## drew138 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

Red is overplayed.


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

the best thing to do is to bring the stock caliper to a paint shop, they will match any color you wanted.
May be just repaint both front and back calipers if you do it yourself. It's easier that way.


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (xola3que)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_the best thing to do is to bring the stock caliper to a paint shop, they will match any color you wanted.
May be just repaint both front and back calipers if you do it yourself. It's easier that way.

_Quote, originally posted by *xola3que* »_the best thing to do is to bring the stock caliper to a paint shop, they will match any color you wanted.
May be just repaint both front and back calipers if you do it yourself. It's easier that way.

scratch my last post. i just saw the pics you sent me... you do great work ct


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: parking brake*

Is it possible to retain the stock caliper for the rear, but mount it and connect it to only use the parking brake?


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: parking brake (JRutter)*

Yup, Stage 1 and 2 kit will do that for you. Stage 3 is a bit more hardcore.
http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114114


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benjamin T* »_i just saw the pics you sent me... you do great work ct









I don't like this secrecy...







Ben_T you need to post those pics so we all can see. I'm so bummed that stage 3 has been delayed for me. They officially totalled my car today. No amount of brakes could have helped me when someone slams into the back of my car while I wasn't not moving! That was an expensive text message for the other driver!


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## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

i'm really sorry about your car brandon. i knew right away it wasn't good from the pic of the damage you sent me. just thankful that you came out of it relatively okay.
so... is your new car going to be something that comes with porsche brakes standard?


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## dieselgti (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: (Benjamin T)*

The boxster s is really tempting me, but with a family it isn't the most practical car. I know it's just a boxster, but I've started with the brakes, move up to a boxster. Let's hope a 911 is next. Buy in reality I'll probably end up with another MKV GTI and love it!


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## xola3que (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (dieselgti)*

Yeah, Glad you came out of it OK. MKV GTI FTW!


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## CorrieG60 (Jan 18, 2004)

Anyone who knows the items to make 350/355mm rotors and the Cayenne 6-pistons fit on a mk1 TT/Golf mk4?


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## CorrieG60 (Jan 18, 2004)

Anyone?


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## Zmeyko (Feb 10, 2011)

Anyone who have DWG(autocad) files for steering hub, of front cayenne 17 ZR\L, 18ZR\L calipers?


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## Zmeyko (Feb 10, 2011)

still looking for autocad files.


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## SoSoA3 (Sep 10, 2012)

Bump revive from the dead...has anyone done a step by step diy for this front/ rear cayenne caliper w/ viper parking brake setup?


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## N8KOW (Jul 14, 2008)

My front setup:










8 pot Brembo - Gallardo/RS4 etc with 362mm AP racing rotors & MC upgrade.

We are developing several rear BBKs here in the UK, so I have a rear kit to follow 

Also have these 6 pot Bentley calipers that I can do with 390mm rotors if anyone fancies a nice "show" brake kit.










:heart:


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