# Wheel Bearing Discussion



## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad?*

Friday when driving home from St. Louis I kept hearing a weird sound from the right rear that sound like another engine running while going 30 to 70 MPH. The noice sounded like something being winding up and down. Take your foot off the accelerator and the noise was still there. Not sure if its the Tranny or Differental or some bearing. 
Took it by the dealer on Saturday and the Service writer could not figure it out. They plan on looking it over on Monday or Tuesday. 
Any Ideas as to what I might find on strange noise. The car just turned 47,000 miles so its still under warranty.
I've been away from the board for awhile glad to sign on again for help.


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (Kcmover)*

Blue sky guess. Electric fuel pump? Don't know how many pumps the Phaeton has so it could be a high pressure send or a low pressure return fuel pump. Where are the suspension air pumps located? One way or another my guess is a pump is getting ready to abandon ship.
RB


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (Rowayton)*

I vote for air and or fuel pumps- all in the rear, I believe.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (Jack Orr)*

We will find out Tuesday Morning. Hopefully nothing major. But it sounds like another motor coming from the right rear of the car. Funny how it winds up like acceleration and then keeps going with your foot off the pedal.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (Kcmover)*

Larry,
Does the noise change with the roadspeed? If so, it's probably the passenger rear wheel bearing. If the noise remains constant regardless of acceleration or speed, I'm keen to find out what it ends up being.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (chrisj428)*

Chris, Barron determined it was the right rear wheel bearing and yes your description was accurate. To me it sounded like another engine in the car when it would up and before it stopped. 
Almost like a jet engine. 
What is VW Policy on rentals for Phaeton owners. The deal said it was not $30.00 and I thought the last time I got one at Enterprise it was 35 or 40. I was asked to contribute 10.00 per day for the rental as the dealer did not have any in house loaners.


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (Kcmover)*

There is no formal VWoA Phaeton loaner or rental policy, it's at the dealership discretion. A handful of dealers provided Phaeton loaners when the program first launched, a handful of Vw dealers provide service loaners. 
PC


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (Kcmover)*

They were only replacing the right rear. Should I have insisted the left rear too? 
Pete Muller IM me and said there was a info notice for the Row 2005 forward. 
Would I want to advise my dealer or not.

Got the info on the bearings-covers ROW 2005 cars from #000835 through 2006 #002610 This does affect some cars imported to NAR but TB was only issued for ROW


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (PhaetonChix)*

PC, The dealer has always been great to me and put me when they could in their car. I have no issue with Barron. But what is the VW pay on warranty to Enterprise (voucher auth)


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (Kcmover)*

VW will pay $30 per day for a loaner car. (IM sent)
Unfortunately, VW will not reimburse the dealer for warranty repairs made to components which have not failed.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (chrisj428)*

I can't disagree with that. Have you seen or heard of many failing?


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (Kcmover)*

Honesly, no.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (chrisj428)*

Well the dealer called and had the good news (the car is done) and the bad news is they said after installing the RR Bearing that they did an all wheel allignment(good) and the afterwards they took the car on a test drive and the Brake Light indicator was on. Meaning that they needed to check the brakes. 
So they check the brakes and found that the brakes looked pretty good except for the right front inner pads. Said the other pads looked pretty good. But what did I want to do. So I asked what the brake job costs and when it could be handled. 
The service writer said are you sitting and I said yes! I then said to him my guess is 600 to 700 with rotors?







Had to get that in prior to him givng me the price. He then said no it was about $1,150.00. I said OUCH! When can you do it? Well we have to order the parts in from VW. Oh! so I can't do it this time. No. Wait until the 50,000 mile service. 
I know its been discussed about the cost so I will have to search for the thread to get the brake job info. Is 1,150.00 about right. Ouch on that price.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (Kcmover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_I know its been discussed about the cost so I will have to search for the thread to get the brake job info. Is 1,150.00 about right. Ouch on that price.

Ayup.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (Kcmover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_So they check the brakes and found that the brakes looked pretty good except for the right front inner pads. Said the other pads looked pretty good. But what did I want to do. So I asked what the brake job costs and when it could be handled. 
The service writer said are you sitting and I said yes! I then said to him my guess is 600 to 700 with rotors?







Had to get that in prior to him givng me the price. He then said no it was about $1,150.00. I said OUCH! When can you do it? Well we have to order the parts in from VW. Oh! so I can't do it this time. No. Wait until the 50,000 mile service. 
I know its been discussed about the cost so I will have to search for the thread to get the brake job info. Is 1,150.00 about right. Ouch on that price.

Are they just replacing the front brakes, or the rears as well? 47 or 50k miles on a set of brakes is not bad at all, though. I think mine will be on about the same schedule.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (car_guy)*

Steven,
It was all the way around the car.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (Kcmover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_Steven,
It was all the way around the car.

I don't think that price is bad at all, then. Customers have told me they have been quoted over $1,000 at dealers in the area to do pads and rotors all around on Honda Accords! I know that sounded pretty outrageous, so I called a dealer myself and that's what I was told as well. It's that kind of stuff that keeps me busy.


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (car_guy)*

Front rotors and pads for a 2003 Subaru Legacy Outback H6 3.0 were over $300 just for the parts! Labor was an addition couple of hundred. Pound per pound, the price for a Phaeton brake job sounds about right.
PC


_Modified by PhaetonChix at 9:04 AM 3-9-2007_


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (PhaetonChix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhaetonChix* »_ Pound per pound, the price for a Phaeton brake job sounds about right.
PC

Man, I'm glad that doesn't apply to everything. Life would be really hard.








Regards,
Brent


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## stevieB (Jul 15, 2006)

*May have a wheel bearing going*

http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif My cars starting to rumble very slightly, I think it could be a wheel bearing or hopefully a noisy worn tyre. any ideas as to anythink else would make a simular sound. It increases with speed, does it if just coasting out of gear, you can nearly feel the revolutions as a slight pulsing.
most noticable at 50-60 mph on a smooth road
Thanks


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## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

Might want to check if the tires need to be balanced. I'd check there since it is an easy fix and likely a cause.


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## stevieB (Jul 15, 2006)

*Re: (noahas)*

Tyres are balanced OK


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## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (stevieB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stevieB* »_Tyres are balanced OK

Ok, sorry, thats the extent of my limited knowledge on a possible cause.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: May have a wheel bearing going (stevieB)*

*You have a wheel bearing that has failed. It happend to me earlier this year. Read this link:
*
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...05450


_Modified by Kcmover at 7:28 PM 6-3-2007_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Strange Sound from the Right rear - Maybe bearing going bad? (Kcmover)*

Steve:

Ask your VW dealer to have a look at technical solution 2012837, which addresses wheel bearing problems on MY 2005 and early 2006 Phaetons. Basically, the note says that if one bad bearing is found on cars within a specific range of VINs produced during these two model years, all four bearings should be replaced.

I have attached the Technical Solution below, but it is in German. Your local VW dealer should be able to pull up an English language copy for you.
Michael


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## stevieB (Jul 15, 2006)

Thanks Michael, I'll keep this post updated.


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## stevieB (Jul 15, 2006)

*Re: May have a wheel bearing going (stevieB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stevieB* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif My cars starting to rumble very slightly, I think it could be a wheel bearing or hopefully a noisy worn tyre. any ideas as to anythink else would make a simular sound. It increases with speed, does it if just coasting out of gear, you can nearly feel the revolutions as a slight pulsing.
most noticable at 50-60 mph on a smooth road
Thanks

Just got back from the garage and the guy thinks it's the tyres making the noise, they are quite badly feathered. meaning if you run your hand round the tread the leading edge of the tread patten is ripped up , so it's a bit like a knobbly off road tyre, but obviously not as bad. they have about 10K life left so i'll run it and see if thats the problem.


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## stevieB (Jul 15, 2006)

anyone in the south UK, fancy a day out on the coast in Sunny Bognor Regis ? So I can try your wheels and tyres on my car to see if the bearing/ tyre noise stops, My guy at national tyres can swap them over in 5 minutes and it would only take a 5 minute drive to test them...I'll treat you to lunch by the sea.
thanks


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (stevieB)*

That's a very sharp idea, Steve.
Michael


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## crvtt (Apr 9, 2007)

I have an 04 and it's currently have a front wheel and hub replaced. Seems like this may be a common failure.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (crvtt)*

My 04 Phaeton is also in the shop this week for a wheel bearing replacement. I think that wheel bearings are, to a certain extent, 'wear parts' that will periodically need to be renewed.

I know there is a Technical Solution published for a small number of MY 05 Phaetons that addresses wheel bearing problems (probably a defective batch from the vendor), but I am not aware of any information being published that addresses the whole fleet. My guess is that as the fleet ages, we will see more of these parts being replaced. 

There is a considerable labour saving if wheel bearings are replaced at the same time that brakes are overhauled (in other words, if you are replacing the brake disc, you are halfway through all the work needed to replace the bearing), so it would probably be a good idea to evaluate bearing condition at the same time the car is in for brake overhaul.

Below are some pictures of the wheel bearing on a Phaeton. For the 2004 W12 (my car) the same part number is used for both front and back. I am not sure if this holds true for all engine variants.

Michael


*Phaeton Wheel Bearing*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

This is what the other side of the wheel bearing looks like.

When you order a replacement one, it comes with a new big bolt in the middle, and a new set of smaller bolts.


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## BeechSierra (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

How in-expensive are those little puppies?


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Thanks for the nice pictures of the wheel bearings. Those look like a heck of a lot less work then the pair I ‘tapped’ out and ‘tapped’ in on my Mercedes last month. What I thought was going to be a stretch, ended up not being that difficult at all. 
Having one self-contained unit makes me think it’s probably just a series nuts and bolts that any willing DIY mechanic could replace. I don’t mind getting my hands dirty, not so much to save money, but to prove to myself that it’s really not that difficult. 
I enjoy working on cars and hope this board will morph into a DIY center on knowledge as these vehicles fall off the warranty schedule. Is anyone around here wrenching on these wonderful cars themselves, or are most relying on others to do it for them?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Auzivision)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Auzivision* »_Is anyone around here wrenching on these wonderful cars themselves, or are most relying on others to do it for them?


When I take my Phaeton to the VW dealer for service, they always ask me if I would like to do the work myself (under their supervision), or if I would like to drop the car off and have them do the work. If I have the time, I usually elect to do the work myself - it is a pleasant activity, even though it takes me about 3 times longer to complete a task than it takes the Phaeton tech.
I think that Brent also does quite a bit of work on his own car, and David (from Alabama) is quite a whiz as well on assembly and disassembly.
There are some interesting photos of all of us at our "Get-Togethers" - here are some links:
Birmingham, Alabama GTG - October 21 to 23 (at David's house)
Phaeton Owner GTG in Auburn Hills, MI - April 23 and 24, 2005
VW has always been quite supportive of us - at both the American and the UK GTG's, a top Phaeton tech from VW head office came along to help us out and answer our questions. That was very nice of them. As long as we follow the procedures in the VW repair manual, and keep the car in perfectly OEM condition, they don't mind us working on the cars ourselves.
Michael


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I think that Brent also does quite a bit of work on his own car, and David (from Alabama) is quite a whiz as well on assembly and disassembly.Michael

It seems all I do now is just *cut wires.* Just ask Chris.







Don't you tell on me now.








Regards,
Brent


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (W126C)*

Cut wires? You mean you are expanding your practice to include orthodontics?


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## stevieB (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm going to fit 4 new tyres tomorrow to see if it was the tyres making the "bearing noise"
I'm trying these http://www.fk452.com/index.html
Falken FK452 255/45/ Y 18 ( 103Y) costing 107 UK pounds each fitted. Hopefully this will make my car nice and quiet again. will let you know the verdict


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## stevieB (Jul 15, 2006)

As it's going to a different tyre shop can someone post the torque setting for the wheel nuts please


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## Jouko Haapanen (Apr 30, 2001)

*Re: (stevieB)*

Factory torque specification for the wheel bolts is 120Nm or 88.5 foot-pounds for those still clinging to the Imperial system.

_Quote, originally posted by *stevieB* »_As it's going to a different tyre shop can someone post the torque setting for the wheel nuts please


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## stevieB (Jul 15, 2006)

*Re: (Jouko Haapanen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jouko Haapanen* »_Factory torque specification for the wheel bolts is 120Nm or 88.5 foot-pounds for those still clinging to the Imperial system.


Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## V10Mike (Jan 24, 2007)

*Re: (stevieB)*

That's a lot cheaper than the OE Dunlop SP9000 -who is your supplier? Please let us know how well they work.


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## Francis007 (Aug 20, 2006)

*Re: (stevieB)*

Stevie
Please let us know how you get on with the Falkens. It's a tyre I would be interested in.
I am nearly at the stage of replacing all 4 of mine and have the same set of problems as most other owners I suppose.
Do I go to the small, local tyre replacement guy. ( tracking only done on a Saturday and on a very old machine ! ) 
Or the largest and most competitively priced supplier in the area ( Micheldever Tyes and Autos ) Pros are a vast choice of tyre with guys who I think know what they are doing. Cons.....usually a very large queue of cars in single file which has meant a waiting time of 3 hours previously ! 
Or.....bite the bullet and have them changed at Dane Motors in Chester who supplied the car. ( I presume expensive but they would know 1. the jacking up points. 2. air suspension 3. TPMS. 4. Have the right equipment for 4 wheel drive tracking.......and therefore do no harm to Hansie, my big German baby boy !








Aint life difficult sometimes.








Frank


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## stevieB (Jul 15, 2006)

*Re: (stevieB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stevieB* »_I'm going to fit 4 new tyres tomorrow to see if it was the tyres making the "bearing noise"
I'm trying these http://www.fk452.com/index.html
Falken FK452 255/45/ Y 18 ( 103Y) costing 107 UK pounds each fitted. Hopefully this will make my car nice and quiet again. will let you know the verdict 

Silence is golden http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif It was the tyres making all the noise, After having the new Falkens fitted the car is perfect. You wouldn't believe that the noise that was so much like a wheel bearing could of been made by the tyres, the tread was "feathering" so I advise you stay away from AVON ZZ3's.
I'll keep you updated on the new boots,


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## stevieB (Jul 15, 2006)

I never get my tracking checked at any tyre fitter, I have always used National tyres ( large chain of shops in UK ) but these I got from the local independant guys, Nice personal service and as you deal with the owner he goes out his way to help and get the repeat business. 
Frank, if you're stuck pop down to Bognor & i'll take you to my guy ! £107 a corner 


_Modified by stevieB at 11:53 AM 6-21-2007_


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (stevieB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stevieB* »_
Silence is golden http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif It was the tyres making all the noise, After having the new Falkens fitted the car is perfect. You wouldn't believe that the noise that was so much like a wheel bearing could of been made by the tyres, the tread was "feathering" so I advise you stay away from AVON ZZ3's.
I'll keep you updated on the new boots, 

Some years ago the Nissan dealer rebuilt the manual transmission on my 1997 Maxima rebuilt because we were convinced that the noise we heard were coming from it. No, it was actually coming from the high performance (Potenzas, I think) summer tires that had feathered. Well, $1000 later we figured it out... At least they paid for half of it.


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (stevieB)*

I lost a weekend about a month ago changing out wheel bearings on my Mercedes Benz only to find out when I rotated the tire to the rear, the sound followed the bad tire. It only cost me about $50 in parts, but I lost a Saturday and part of a Sunday messing with it. :banghead:


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## stevieB (Jul 15, 2006)

wish you guys had mentioned your tyres when the question was first asked !


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## Francis007 (Aug 20, 2006)

*Re: (stevieB)*

Stevie
Thanks for the offer. My tyres have about 2-3000 miles left so I will decide on what to do in the next 2 months and get in touch.
Frank


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Francis007)*

Frank:
I'm not normally in the habit of posting eBay listings here on the forum, but I saw one today that might be of interest to you - it is for four Challenge wheels with Dunlop Sport 9000s on them. The tires are past the halfway wear mark, so they are not of much value, but the alloy rims are nice and would give you a second set of rims to use for winter tires. Besides that, you could probably drive for another 5,000 to 8,000 miles on the tires, which would give you the opportunity of trying out the Dunlop 9000s.
Here's the link: VW Phaeton 4x Felgen _(wheels) _"Challenge" V6, V8 V10, W12. The vendor is in Germany, so shipping costs to the UK should not be too high.
By the way, an almost identical listing for four 18 inch Phaeton rims with tires and TPMS mounted went for €350 about a month ago, if that gives you any guideline of what to expect. The German eBay buyers snipe like crazy, so if you want to win the auction, you need to go in once only, with about a minute left in the auction, and go in big (e.g. €500), otherwise someone else will snipe the item away from you during the last minute for €1 more than you have bid.
Michael


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## Francis007 (Aug 20, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thankyou Michael for an interesting idea. Unfortunately I am not that keen on the Challenge alloy wheel.
Given the chance I would like to replace my 18 inch Performance rims with 19 inch Omanyt.
Now if they came up on Ebay I would be interested !








If you fly into my local airport ( Southampton ) at any time this summer get in touch and I will pick you up. I have just installed a heat pump in my pool and water temperature is now up to 86








It means that nothing will now shrivel as it has in previous years








Frank


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

*Hum from rear passenger*

Hey Guys,
I have been noticing an unusual amount of 'hum' noise coming from my rear passenger wheel well. Usually audible over 70kph, not sure if it's the tire or some sort of bearing, has anyone else experienced something similar?


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## baremytone (Dec 7, 2007)

*Re: Hum from rear passenger (udaymohan)*

yes, had the same thing. It was a wheel bearing. Seems to be common.


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

that is what I figured...so I may as well make a booking and take it in cause it's DAMN annoying hehehehe


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: (udaymohan)*

From your thread title, I was going to say that you probably just have contented passengers.


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

Hahahahahaha well that is constantly the case and I would not find it annoying at all. In fact over the weekend had the car loaded with 4 passengers and not one person had anything negative to say it was great.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Hum from rear passenger (udaymohan)*

Don't discount the possibility that it be one or both or all the tires becoming noisy. If it's a bearing, you can usually make it louder by turning left or right and loading the wheel with the bad bearing.
I had high performance tires on my Maxima that when worn became very noisy. In fact my dealer and I were convinced it was the manual transmission and had it rebuilt. Nope, $1,000 later it was still just the tires. Don't make a similar mistake.
Steven


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Hum from rear passenger (udaymohan)*

Thud thud thud sort of, but faster? I notice it only when the rear windows are open. My theory is it's wind noise caused by turbulence when the rear Windows are open.


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

*Re: Hum from rear passenger (car_guy)*

Thanks Steven..I have made an appointment and simply told them to check it out without giving them any indications...I am hoping it's the tire as well but figured it could be the bearing as well.
So I will let you guys know once I have had in the shop


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

Well took the car in and turns out it's BOTH rear wheel bearings which need to be replaced. But they are also going to check the rear tires and make sure they are balanced just to be sure.
Hit to wallet to follow hehehehehe


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (udaymohan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *udaymohan* »_Well took the car in and turns out it's BOTH rear wheel bearings which need to be replaced. But they are also going to check the rear tires and make sure they are balanced just to be sure.

Does an out of balance tire make a humming noise?


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

Well the repair is going to cost about $1100 cdn for the parts, labour, balancing and taxes.


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (udaymohan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *udaymohan* »_Well took the car in and turns out it's BOTH rear wheel bearings which need to be replaced.

How many miles are on your car?
Regards,
Brent


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

1569969km


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## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (udaymohan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *udaymohan* »_1569969km









Perhaps you left out a decimal point... Or too many 9s.... Or some other typographical error....
But in miles, that comes to just over 975,533 miles. That's greater than the distance to the moon and back - twice! It is over 261 round trips from Toronto to Miami and back...
However, it is an attainable number for a 2004 Phaeton.... you would need to drive literally non-stop (24 hrs. a day averaging 60 km/hr) for 3 years to travel that distance.









P.S. That was my lame attempt at humor for 2008... Please let me know if I exceed my quota of one attempt per year.


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## stevieB (Jul 15, 2006)

*Rear wheel bearing failed at 90,000 miles*

just had OffSideRear wheel bearing replaced. Part cost £79 pounds. but to undo the bolts holding the hub/bearing on involved dropping the complete suspension arm so as to get a long enough bar on the bolt. It was sooooo tightly done up. It took my local independant garage over 5 hours to do the job !
fitted rear brake pads at the same time, originals lasted 90,000 miles. fronts are 60% worn swo should do 100,000 miles easily.
Oooh and "exhaust workshop" light is on.


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

Well actually I took the trip on Monday to catch the eclipse first hand and 60kph in the Phaeton just would not be fair...I was trying to average about 100kph but you know who is really keeping track of these things when in outer space hahahahahahaha
You are correct there were one to many 9s the mileage is 156,969km


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## FootSore (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: Rear wheel bearing failed at 90,000 miles (stevieB)*

A credit to your driving.
I just had my front brake pads replaced at 40,000, but I don't have to drive to keep passengers happy!
FootSore


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (udaymohan)*

Wow, if the car has lasted 156,000 km (about 100,000 miles) on the original wheel bearings, it has treated you very well.
Michael


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

I believe so, I can't be 100% if they were replaced before, I will check and let you guys know.


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

Bearings replaced....have not taken the car on the highway yet but from what I can tell the 'hmmmm' is all gone...most excellent.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (udaymohan)*

Good to hear.
Michael


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## stevieB (Jul 15, 2006)

*Re: Rear wheel bearing failed at 90,000 miles (stevieB)*


_Quote »_just had OffSideRear wheel bearing replaced. Part cost £79 pounds. but to undo the bolts holding the hub/bearing on involved dropping the complete suspension arm so as to get a long enough bar on the bolt. It was sooooo tightly done up. It took my local independant garage over 5 hours to do the job !
fitted rear brake pads at the same time, originals lasted 90,000 miles. fronts are 60% worn swo should do 100,000 miles easily.

today I noticed a new wheel bearing noise, so I think the other rear is on its way out.
would you expect both to go within a few thousand miles of each other ?
90,000 & now 93,000 miles

_Modified by stevieB at 6:33 AM 3-24-2008_


_Modified by stevieB at 6:33 AM 3-24-2008_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Rear wheel bearing failed at 90,000 miles (stevieB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stevieB* »_...would you expect both (wheel bearings) to go within a few thousand miles of each other?


Oddly enough, yes. I think that wheel bearings wear out either due to environmental effects (salt, chemicals, stuff like that) or they wear out due to loads imposed in the normal course of operating the car. My guess is that the effect would be the same on both sides of the car, although perhaps not on both ends of the car.

FWIW, I have had all four of my bearings replaced. I think they are 'wear parts', almost in the same category as brakes or wiper blades. I do know that on aircraft, they wear out quite predictably. There are two factors affecting wheel bearing wear on an aircraft - how many cycles (landings and takeoff), and how frequently the aircraft cycles at gross weight as opposed to empty weight.

I'll post some photos of the bearing below. The first photo is of the 'old' bearing, just before it was removed from my car and discarded.
Michael

*Old Wheel Bearing*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Rear wheel bearing failed at 90,000 miles (PanEuropean)*

The next two photos are of the new bearing, before it was installed.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Rear wheel bearing failed at 90,000 miles (PanEuropean)*

Medial side of the same bearing...


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## Dougster1010 (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: (udaymohan) - Wheel bearings (when to replace)*

In Ottawa and just took possession of a used 2004 V8. Have had both front bearings replaced at a cost of about $1,600 (some other minor work also done - bearings alone were $400 each). Have concerns about the rear bearing now as they are likely original and the car has about 110,000km on it. Any thoughts...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Dougster1010)*

Hi Doug:
Sorry I missed you, I was in Ottawa this morning but left at noon because I had finished all the work I had to do. Am now reading your post from Toronto...
My own guess is that at or around 110k, it would not be unreasonable to have to replace the rear bearings. They seem to be a 'wear part'.
Michael


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## stevieB (Jul 15, 2006)

both my rear bearings need changing at 90,000 miles , front are Ok at the moment


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## GS340 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Front wheel bearings.*

Anyone change their front wheel bearings? Looking for tips or a DIY writeup.. 
Looks like from the drawing the bearing has to be pressed in. Any special tools required? 










_Modified by GS340 at 3:57 AM 9-23-2008_


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: Front wheel bearings. (GS340)*

I've been waiting for replies on your original post but it appears that most bearing replacements have been done by dealers rather than owners.
I also haven't done this on my Phaeton, so I can't guarantee what I am saying is correct. However, my repair info on the Phaeton does mention pressing out the old and pressing the new bearings into the housing. It also mentions several "special" tools. If I were planning to do mine, I would before any disassembly line up an automotive machine shop that would be willing to do the press work for me once I had removed the bearing housing and supplied them with the new bearings. I doubt that the special tools are so unique that a good machine shop would encounter any problems. 
I also have a little more wheel bearing noise in my Phaeton than I would like. From several posts, it seems like wheel bearing replacements are common on our heavy vehicles. So if you do the job, let us all know what you find. I may end up replacing mine if I can't talk my dealer into covering them under my CPO warranty.


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Front wheel bearings. (Jxander)*

There is a FAQ about bearigs that you might find helpful. They bolt in but exposed to the elements may "seize" themselves in as well. You have to take your brake components off and drive axle out to gain axess to the rear bolts. Then torque the new bolts. Hope this helps.


_Modified by KCPhaetonTech at 8:41 PM 9-28-2008_


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## GS340 (Oct 26, 2007)

The rears are bolt in assemblies and the fronts have to be pressed in?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GS340)*

This photo shows the front suspension system of my W12 (I guess you could call it the 'front axle', although that is a bit of a generalization) after it has been removed from the vehicle and has had two new wheel bearings installed.
It is not necessary to remove this assembly from the vehicle to install new bearings. The bearings can be quite easily installed by just removing the wheel and the brake caliper and disc. In my case, the engine and transmission assembly was removed from the car to fix a small problem in the torque converter, and this necessitated removing the entire front suspension system to allow the engine to be dropped out from underneath the car.
While the front suspension system was out, the staff replaced the two wheel bearings. This picture is kind of useful because it clearly shows the relationship of the two wheel bearings (the new, shiny looking parts) to the rest of the assembly.
Michael


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## GS340 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks for the picture. The fronts to appear to be bolt in as well.


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## jzvortex (Jan 11, 2009)

*Strange noise >30 mph*

Hi there,
My Phaeton just passed its 40,000 mile inspection last week. This week I drove it about 2.5 hours west on the Masspike and it performed beautifully. On the way back, about halfway home, I noticed that the car now makes a noise after it gets above 30-35 mph. The noise -- kind of a non-localized vibration -- is worst at about 70, and seems to fade after. The frequency decreases as the car coasts slower, and doesn't seem to be correlated to the revving of the engine, though the revving can cover it.
Is it possibly just the tires starting to wear? I'm not even sure most people would notice it, but the car has now gone from extremely quiet on the road to sounding like there's another car nearby.
I'll consult with the local dealer, but also figured I'd ask here.
Best,
JZ
PS - the tires are new (since January, probably 5K miles) Michelins, the OEM-recommended ones - Pilot MXM4)


_Modified by jzvortex at 7:59 PM 6-14-2009_


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## sachverhalte (Sep 16, 2007)

I've had similar trouble on other VW's that I've owned in the past. On one vehicle the wheel was out of balance due to a bent rim. On the other, it was a worn bearing. I may just be that the tire is out of balance.


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## sachverhalte (Sep 16, 2007)

wrong link above.
This si the right one:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3109773


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## jzvortex (Jan 11, 2009)

*Re: (sachverhalte)*

Thanks so much -- I'll send the link to the service dept., and hope that if that's the problem, it's covered by the original warranty ...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (sachverhalte)*

Hi Sachverhalte:
Thanks for providing the link to the original wheel bearing thread.
I have appended the new conversation onto the end of the existing post that you referred to. This means that the link you provided above now points to page 1 of this discussion.
Michael


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## jzvortex (Jan 11, 2009)

*Re: Wheel bearing replacement (PanEuropean)*

The dealer service department reports that yes, it's a wheel bearing. They are saying they can only replace the defective one. I read them your msg about technical solution 2012837 and they told me I "shouldn't believe everything I read on the Internet." I pushed back as diplomatically as possible, and the tech advisor said he would talk to the mechanic once more but that he still thought the bulletin didn't apply, and wouldn't say why.
I guess I'll see what happens when I go to pick up the car.
Thanks again, everyone, for the counsel. It's rare to see a problem so quickly identified and given a specific solution!
Update: The service advisor writes --
>I have the advisor and the tech. looking into this. I looked for any
>service solutions for wheel bearings and i have not found any. The #
>you gave was not a working solution #
So maybe I'll try the Phaeton phone line and see if they can track down the English version of the advisory that Michael posted?


_Modified by jzvortex at 11:31 AM 6-17-2009_


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## jzvortex (Jan 11, 2009)

*Re: Wheel bearing replacement (jzvortex)*

Final update -- they replaced both rear bearings. The advisor looked while I was there to find the technical bulletin about replacing all four if one went, and it really didn't seem to be in the system, whether by bulletin number or by a search on "wheel bearings" ...
Thanks again for all the help. ...JZ


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Wheel bearing replacement (jzvortex)*

Archival Note: Here's a discussion (complete with illustrated how-to) that addresses replacement of the droplinks on the front anti-roll bar. If you are in the process of replacing the front wheel bearings, it probably makes sense to have a close look at the droplinks as well - they may need replacement - and it is quite easy to replace the droplinks if you are already in the process of replacing the wheel bearings.
Replacing front Antiroll (aka Sway) Bar Droplinks
Along a similar line of thought, the two upper control arms in the front suspension are also 'wear parts', and if you are in there replacing the wheel bearings, you might as well have a close look at the front upper control arms. We have a discussion (with photos) about these control arms somewhere, but I can't recall where it is.
Michael


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Wheel bearing replacement (jzvortex)*

Wheel Bearing Part Duex!
Funny how lightning strikes twice. My original Phaeton (now Bernard's) Hit at 47,000 miles and now my 2006 has a wheel bearing starting to make noise at 38500 miles. It has that same 737 engine sound. 
I guess we will see how the CPO works as it took over Last October 1, 2009. 
I also have the Real Driver warranty. So I'm not really concerned and Hopefully Matt (KCPhaeton Tech) will get the Assignment at NT VW in KC.
Larry


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## Roger Moore (Feb 20, 2000)

*Re: Wheel bearing replacement (Kcmover)*

For what it's worth; I had both rear wheel bearings replaced on my MY2005 @ 48K miles.
Symptoms:
At speeds above 50 mph, I noticed a high pitched rotary noise from the rear of vehicle, not too annoying but clearly unusual; researched it here on VW Vortex, read all the chatter here on the subject, had it checked at VW, simply mentioned about what I read, wheel bearings identified by Tech as defective; covered/ replaced under warranty.
That was about a year and 15K miles ago.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Wheel bearing replacement (Roger Moore)*

i'm going to have to get her scheduled in. A new VW dealer open about 4 miles from my office. The service writer is the old one from Barron VW where Matt once worked. The new dealer has several of the old Phaeton Techs from Barron. I would prefer Matt to do the work but his dealership is 30 miles from my office. Have to give this some thought.


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## calmone (Feb 15, 2006)

*wheel bearing question*

i begin to hear what i believe to be a bearing noise (when you own a subaru svx you get used to hearing it), and look around for wheel bearings on the web. i recall michael said he believed the bearings for his w12 were the same front and rear, yet i find a front set listed at about $225 per bearing and a "rear drivers" for about $45. does the same bearing fit both front and rear? is there a different drivers and passenger's side rear bearing?


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: wheel bearing question (calmone)*

On a V8, the front and rear bearings are identical.
P.


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## conmoto (Jul 8, 2009)

calmone said:


> i begin to hear what i believe to be a bearing noise (when you own a subaru svx you get used to hearing it), and look around for wheel bearings on the web. i recall michael said he believed the bearings for his w12 were the same front and rear, yet i find a front set listed at about $225 per bearing and a "rear drivers" for about $45. does the same bearing fit both front and rear? is there a different drivers and passenger's side rear bearing?


So where does one find these bearings on the Internet? I just replaced tires and it's quite obvious that my bearings are ready for retirement. People have commented on hearing noises at certain speeds, but I hear a steady hum from about 5mph and above. Does that mean they're REALLY cooked? Also, I get the impression that this service can be done by any qualified mechanic. True?


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## conmoto (Jul 8, 2009)

I just found the bearing for my 04, but it seems awfully inexpensive. I thought this was a $400 job!?
Do I need more than actual bearing?

http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts...content=DN&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base


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## conmoto (Jul 8, 2009)

Scratch that last post. I see that there are two manufacturers of bearings for the Phaeton. SKF and Beck-Arnley. Beck-Arnley only makes a rear drivers side bearing?! and SKF makes everything I need. Can anyone speak to the quality of these producers? If I had a means of jacking my car I think I'd try it myself. Do they need to be pressed in?

http://www.volkswagenpartstore.com/catalog/?N=9265+10227+4294962487+1732+11921


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

conmoto said:


> Scratch that last post. I see that there are two manufacturers of bearings for the Phaeton. SKF and Beck-Arnley. Beck-Arnley only makes a rear drivers side bearing?! and SKF makes everything I need. Can anyone speak to the quality of these producers? If I had a means of jacking my car I think I'd try it myself. Do they need to be pressed in?
> 
> http://www.volkswagenpartstore.com/catalog/?N=9265+10227+4294962487+1732+11921


Given that the pictures are correct, the first two bearings are separate from the carrier and would have to be pressed into your existing carrier after the original bearing was pressed out. The third or last bearing in the list has the carrier or housing and would be a bolt-on with no press required. Before I ordered, I'd make a call to the supplier and ask to make sure the illustrations correctly represent the product. A bolt-on would surely be easier for a DIYer without a press.

Jim X


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*SKF*

SKF ("Svenska Kullagerfabriken", or Swedish Ball Bearing Factory) is a very well renowned Swedish manufacturer of bearings of all kinds. You find their products just about everywhere. Their quality is usually top notch. Sometimes, a bearing labeled with a car manufacturer's part number also bears an SKF number. In that case it may be a standard product of their's and can be purchased directly from an SKF distributor.

/p


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## conmoto (Jul 8, 2009)

Lesson learned: a single rear bearing with housing is about $110. It's a bolt on part, no pressing needed as I understand it. I made an appointment with the dealer to replace both rear bearings and it's going to be $400 in parts alone.

I'm guessing I could have done this job on my own. Apparently if I was replacing the bearing only, I would have had to press it in. I guess Phaetons go through bearings often so maybe I should look into buying my own bearing press? Do I need a special press or will any old bearing press do the trick?


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## gcooley1 (May 4, 2009)

*Wheel bearing replacement: Very Difficult DIY*

So I went and had my rear passenger wheel bearing replaced and I asked if I could watch. 

This was no easy task. But if you are adventurous enough, you might want to try it. *This post is mostly for the pictures*, I didn't catch many sizes, but I know that a "3 square #10 was used." not sure exactly what that means but I know it has many more spokes than a torx. Here is a picture:










Parts: Here is the new wheel bearing(the rotor screw will not line up on this new bearing because it superseded the old part number. They tell me if I got new rotors it would line up)



















1. Pull Wheel Off










2. Remove sensors: I believe there was a brake wear sensor, and a speed sensor: 









3. Take brakes off, there are I believe two bolts holding the caliper on, but I think there is another post that shows how to do brakes.




























4. Remove Rotor (hammer is required)










5. Figure out that the only way to get to the bolts behind the wheel bearing is to move the axle.(this was not expected by the mechanic. So he had to remove bolts from the suspension components, so he could angle the hub to get enough room apart from the axle to fit his screw driver. 


















































































6. Remove huge bolt from axle (this was really tight, and took a serious air gun and multiple tries to get it off)










7. Remove wheel bearing: This was also super hard to get off. He tried a hammer, then a jack hammer, etc, He finally got it after denting up the old bearing pretty bad. 










8. Put new bearing in, and do everything in reverse!


I know this isn't the best post on how to replace a wheel bearing, and If I actually did the work myself I might have been able to provide more detailed instructions. If you have any questions I can probably answer them.

Thanks, and hope this helps! It ended up costing me $550 total, with parts being about $200 for the hub assembly.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

gcooley1 said:


> It ended up costing me $550 total, with parts being about $200 for the hub assembly.




Ouch.

FYI, anyone else that needs a wheel bearing, Parts.com sell them for $134.55, factory OEM VW.

They aren't hard to swap, just need a couple special bits, along with basic hand tools and a dead blow hammer as mentioned. It is a little time consuming though. I wouldn't start the job after work expecting to drive to work the next morning. Save it for a Saturday. I replaced a rear one on Dennis's Phaeton for him this time last year.


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

> 8. Put new bearing in, and do everything in reverse!


Have you ever considered writing for Haynes' manuals? 

Harry


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## aubergine2004 (Oct 2, 2009)

thanks for the post


-paul


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

Thanks for posting. 

One of the bolts they removed looked like an eccentric. 

Did this procedure require an alignment to complete?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

G Cooley:

Thanks very much for taking the time to take all the pictures, collect them together, and post them here. Your contribution will help a lot of fellow owners in the future.

I have merged your recent post (the one with all the pictures) together with the existing "Wheel Bearing" discussion that is listed in the Category)]Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category)[/url]. This will make it easier for others to find the information in the future.

Michael


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## gcooley1 (May 4, 2009)

no alignment was recommended, but maybe it might help? I'm not sure...


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Wheel bearing*

Hmm... Should a Phaeton wheel bearing fail after 55000 miles? I would guess not, but my left rear is being replaced today.

Anyone had this happen?

All the best,

Per


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yes, mine went with not much more mileage on it. I seem to recall that the warranty covered it.

If you take a look at the wheel bearing discussion, you'll find several that have failed with relatively low mileage. There was some discussion that this is due to the weight of the car, but of course you'd think that the bearings would be engineered accordingly.


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## gartracescort (Apr 4, 2010)

Both mine went at just over that distance.


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Ah!*

OK, thanks for the replies! Now I don't feel as bad anymore. It will be fixed tomorrow at just a little over $1100 

/per


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Good grief! Mine didn't cost that much, although I seem to recall that an alignment was also necessary. It could be that I paid for the alignment but not the bearing replacement.


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## Irish Phaeton (Sep 6, 2010)

*Bearings/ influence of wheele balance*

All
while I have never required a wheel bearing change I have seen the comments over the years. I have often wondered if a *wheel slightly out of balance* would cause excessive stress on a wheel bearing. In my experience many of tyre fitting " specalists" fail to understand the importance of wheel balance on rear as well as front wheels. 
In my locality only one of 3 local tyre shops can balance the 19" Helios wheels to the correct tolerance for the Phaeton (or maybe that's just me being fussy...)


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## 04phaeton (Feb 19, 2009)

$1,100?

That's a lot as I just had one replaced 2 months ago.

I just had my rear left bearing go at 200,000km (about 120,000 miles) and the bearing only cost $300 with about $200 in labour.

Also, with respect to a wheel alignment being necessary, that's ONLY necessary if the mechanic removes the wheel plate (I think that's what it's called). 

My mechanic installed it by hand which took him longer but I wouldn't have to get an alignment after.


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## PH8TON (Sep 1, 2010)

*Wheel Bearing*

Same here! Changed my right rear a month and a half ago and it cost me about 550$ all included.
Your cost does seem a little high.


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Taxes...*

Yep, guys and gals, this is Sweden.

Sales tax: 25% added (20% of the quoted price which always includes tax)

You employ somebody and pay him $100: please pay $31.42 to the state as well!

You earn $100: you pay around $30 in income tax if you earn around $50k per year.

This all tends to make things expensive... None the less, this ordeal is $300 for the part and the rest is work and four wheel alignment, the latter of which I would like to have done regardless. And yes, he will change the plate since the bearing is delivered with bearing, housing and plate as one unit. This would have been covered by the mandatory three-year warranty that all cars are delivered with, but mine ran out last year and we do not have the third party extended warranty business in this country. 

No whining here 

Also, I can note that there is a difference in driving a Golf loaner and a Phaeton... My fellow choir members that always ride home with me after monday practice where somewhat puzzled and disappointed last night.

/per


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## gartracescort (Apr 4, 2010)

If the rear corner is disturbed, then only that one is affected and realign it to the original geometry, bu tI get your point about checking the entire car anyway.

I'm in a Fox at the moment as mine is back in Liverpool having some of the warranty paintwork redone on the driver's door. There is a bit of a story here!

Anybody have experience of the bodyshop in Liverpool?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

04phaeton said:


> $1,100?
> 
> That's a lot as I just had one replaced 2 months ago.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I did question the necessity of the alignment, but they were adamant. Mind you, this is the same dealer that made a huge mess of the timing belt change.....


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## calmone (Feb 15, 2006)

i've also had to replace a rear bearing (did them both as i figured if one went the other wasn't far behind) cost about tte same as most here. this appears to be a common fault. some say it's the weight of the car, and in a sense i agree. however, i suspect the bearing chosen wasn't up to snuff for the weight. i have an old (1989) bentley with 178,000 miles. while i am not the first owner i do not think the wheel bearings have ever been done. of course, a bunch of other stuff wasn't engineered properly for the car. when they make a car that never wears out it's parts, please call me asap.


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## kmf (Jan 26, 2006)

*Wheel Bearing Assembly Question*

Originally VW had 4F0 598 625 A listed as the part number for both the front and rear wheel bearing assemblies. These are the bearing, housing, and new hardware.

Now they changed the part listing to 3D0 498 607 and there is no supersession. 

I was BS'ing about this at work with another Vortex member I speculated that since the Phaeton with its steel chassis is heavier than the Audi's that maybe VW upgraded them but I could not find a TSB or any issues via a google search. 

I was wondering if anyone on here knew anything about it.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That's certainly interesting speculation, since the originals appear to fail earlier than expected. I had a rear one fail at about 60k.


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

I've had both rear bearings changed, one of them as local goodwill. Invoice shows 3D0 part number. I'll ask about it next tome I drive by.

/per


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

Alright guys, ready to get laughed at. My driver's side rear wheel bearing went bad and I've decided to replace it myself as my P is out of warranty. Generally I've found them for ~$130 OE, but just for fun I looked on Amazon, and found quite a few non-OE options. One in particular is by a company called GMB, and Amazon claims it's a direct replacement... for $9. 


he question is- does anyone see a reason not to just go with this almost free option?


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

Ouch! No way!

The scrap value of the metal in the bearing assembly is more than $9...

On the bright side, somebody wins $9 and you don't lose that much paying for nothing 

/per


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I wouldn't go near it. The damage from a bearing that failed suddenly would make $100 look like chump change. Apart from anything else, a big reason for doing work on your own car is that you can then afford to spend the money on quality parts rather than dealer labour!


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

I'm wondering- it looks like the OEM part comes with a new hub assembly, whereas this and other non-OE parts do not. Is a new hub assembly necessary, or can I re-use the one that is on the car? I'm not trying to go cheap here, just trying to ascertain what is actually necessary for the job.


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

Well that was quick- I canceled my order of the $9 part, and they updated the price to $29. Still crazy cheap, but I think I'll go with a higher quality replacement part. Anyone know the size of the hub bolt?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

There's a thread about changing it somewhere. The hub nut is big. You also need an alignment afterwards. I know when I looked at it, I decided not to do it myself.


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

The original ones come with a hub assembly. It is a precision press-fit and the old unit usually cannot be taken apart. You would end up needing a new hub anyway...

/per


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

Thanks for the info guys. I ended up ordering the original VW part- no sense in going cheap for something so crucial to the car's operation. I'll try to document my installation when it comes in.

Brian


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

Ok, so looking for some info if anyone knows- does the axle need to be fully removed from the hub in order to get to the four spline bolts that hold it on? I've removed the alignment bolt from the upper control arm so that the hub would have some more play, but the boot around the axle makes it impossible to fit my socket in there. 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

The following link is a do it yourself from an Audi A8 which is very similar. The thread answers your question. Let us know if it works.


http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/360253-Front-wheel-bearing-replacement

Damon


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

Thanks Damon. I had seen that thread, but they seem to be able to pull the axle quite a bit farther away from the hub than I'm able to. Maybe if I try a different angle it will work out better..


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

Actually, turns out it just required pulling harder! Got the axle out, have clear access to the bolts. I was going to use a Torx bit since I have no 3-square bit.. but then I realized how bad it would be to strip one of those bolts. So out to the store to get this bit, then we should be all set. I'll post instructions after for anyone else wanting to tackle this project themselves.

Brian


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Don't skimp on items such as torx and 12 points. If not, the metal will be so soft you will tear them up in no time. Buy a quality brand socket set with at least a 3/8 drive.


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

Well I promised to give an update.. Sadly it's not a triumphant one. I ended up throwing in the towel, but she's all fixed now!

So the procedure is fairly straightforward in replacing the hub assembly, and it went flawlessly up to the very last step. There are four rear-facing 12mm spline (or triple-square) bolts that hold the hub assembly in place. These are fairly difficult to get your wrench on, as they require moving the axle out of the way each time. The hard part though, is actually turning the bolts- they're literally the tightest bolts I've encountered on the car. I was working with the car on jack stands and simply didn't have enough space for the breaker bar these require. I tried my 18" torque wrench, no dice.

So sadly I was left putting everything back together and driving her over to my local indy shop. Dropped her off at 2:30, they called at 4:00 letting me know she was ready!

Costs- $173 for the OEM part, and $186 for labor for $359 total. Lesson learned here- let the professionals handle any project that requires moving an axle.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Did you get the alignment done?


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

Haven't had time today- going tomorrow.


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## doz (Jul 29, 2013)

*oh bum! Another problem. wheel bearing*

So just done 700 mile round trip to Paris. Went to see Depeche Mode in concert but that's anothet story. Problem is one of my front wheel bearings has started to grumble. Is this a pretty straight forward job on the P? Any special tools or redicules torque values. Any insight in to the job is greatly appriecated


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

I have changed two bearings on my 2008 V6TDI and two on my 2006 W12. They come as a complete hub with four bolts that hold them in place. The only downside is that you need a four-wheel alignment after the job. My mech managed to change one on W12 without removing any of the linkages, a fact that made an alignment unnecessary (apparently it was a dog to do).

The story with wheel bearings and German cars goes on and on. On my two Audis that I had before I changed the wheel bearing quite often, especially on the good old 300BHP 1995 S4. I have a friend who used to be service manager at Toyota in Stockholm. They never changed a wheel bearing on a Toyota from just wear and tear. Hmmm...

/per


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## doz (Jul 29, 2013)

Cheers. Can you remember the torque settings?


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

I didn't do it myself, but manual says that the four bolts should be tightened to 80 Nm and then an additional 90°.

There is also instructions for actually pressing the hub out and the the bearing out, but according to my mech it is much better to get a complete assembly with the bearing already in it.

/per


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## doz (Jul 29, 2013)

I'll start stripping the bearing down tonight. Just for info, here in Blighty the front bearing is 90.49+vat from TPS which are part of VAG so will be genuine. Has to be over nighted as it's not a stock item


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## entwisi (Feb 19, 2013)

http://www.oemparts.co.uk/volkswage...rt-100013-192-713610480-654-Wheel-Bearing-Kit


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## doz (Jul 29, 2013)

First off let me start by apologising for the late reply. I've been laying low with a nasty chest infection and only got the car back together Saturday.

Having now done this job I'd say they're is 2 better ways to tackle it. First one is to undo and separate the bottom ball joints. Undo the drive shaft hub nut then pull the leg outwards enough to allow you to get to the 4 bolts holding the bearing in place. However space will be limited and I had to heat the other end of the bearing bolts up a lot to get them to move. They are also made from Swiss cheese so much care will need to be taken.

The other way is to take the front strut out complete with the air shock. It's more work but you gain much more access. Only issues are the top mount bolts to inner wing are made of the same cheese as the bearing bolts.

When I finished the job I had two faults up on the dash. 1 was for the brake pad low warning. My pads are at best have 25% remaining. It may of come on as they are genuinely low or the very delicate pad wires didn't like the disturbance. Second warning was for the suspension. However I had put it in to jack mode. Once I removed it the car quickly found it's level and was fine.

So in summary the job is easily doable for the home mechanic with a good assortment of tools. However for the love of god don't try to remove the top arms to strut upright pinch bolt. It will snap and is a right fanny of a job to get out.


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Hi, I just replaced the rear bearing unit. Before starting I heard this was an easy task. From my experience it was not. I took me 16 hours to do the job. Unfortunately, I only had 1 day to do the job which made for a long day. I ended up following the Bentley manual instructions, with the exception that I didn't remove the brake caliper bracket which is bolted to the back of the wheel bearing housing. Just so there is no confusion, the "wheel bearing housing" is connected to the upper and lower control arms and holds the "wheel bearing unit". The "wheel bearing unit" is actually a housing , hub, and wheel bearing so I want to make sure no one confuses this with the term "wheel bearing housing". The wheel bearing housing resembles a "spindle arm". 

Below are some observations. This is not full instructions but are included to help if your following the Bentley Manual.

Bentley tells you to remove the brake caliper bracket to remove the brake rotor. The brake caliper bracket bolts are nearly impossible to remove without taking the wheel bearing housing off the car. I removed the caliper instead and left the caliper bracket on the wheel bearing housing. Also, my 2004 brake rotor is secured to the wheel bearing hub with a philips head screw (I think newer versions don't have this screw). The screw could not be backed out with stripping if you used a philips screw driver. I used impact driver to remove like this: http://kk.org/cooltools/archives/723

The Bentley Manual states you must remove the wheel bearing housing and put it in a vise to remove the four 12-point bolts securing the wheel bearing unit. 

Someone stated you do not need to remove the wheel bearing housing. In my opinion, The CV axle obstructs access and can't be moved out of the way to remove the four 12-point bolts with the wheel bearing housing in place. From the photos in this thread (page 2 or 3) it also shows the wheel bearing housing doesn't need to be removed but shifted. I don't know how this is possible while properly torquing the four 12 point bolts securing the wheel bearing unit. Maybe he used an impact wrench, which I don't own. Regardless, I don't think you can torque per Bentley using an impact. 

On the rear even if you could keep the wheel bearing housing on the car, the 12 point bolts are on so tight you need a long breaker bar to remove them and properly torque them. I used a 24" breaker bar with the wheel bearing housing in a vise. I had to use all my body weight to torque them per Bentley (80 NM + 135 degree, rotate backward 360 degree, re torque to 80 NM + 90 degree). A 24" breaker bar cannot fit in the wheel well if the wheel housing is not removed. 

Removing the wheel bearing housing is difficult. You must remove shock bolt, upper control arm bolt, lower control arm bolt, and tie rod connector lower bolt and upper nut. Be sure to mark with a crayon the upper control arm washer position on both sides so you can reassemble without affecting alignment. Don't use paint because the washer doesn't move Up/down it rotates 360 degrees, so paint will be of no use. That is the only bolt which should affect alignment. To remove, I left the tie rod connector bolt in place with nut removed. Push wheel bearing housing off the lower control arm then push the wheel bearing housing forward to release from upper tie rod bolt. 

Putting the wheel bearing housing back on was even more difficult because the wheel bearing housing fits into the lower control arm and tie rod connector with such tight tolerance that you must get it positioned perfectly to get it to fit back together again. I eventually figured it out. Slip the wheel bearing housing and tie arm connector onto the upper tie arm bolt (which is permanently mounted to the tie arm which is not removed). Don't install the nut. Fit the CV axle splines into back of the wheel bearing unit. I used lithium grease in this joint to prevent the parts from rusting together which is not covered in the Bentley. Next position the wheel bearing housing vertically (it will be an inch or so out of alignment from the upper control arm) and lower wheel bearing housing and tie rod connector it into the lower control arm. I had a pry bar to help position the parts into the joints. Bentley says the suspension bolts are to be only tightened with the suspension set in the curb weight position. This seemed difficult, so I placed a floor jack under the bearing wheel hub and compressed the suspension about 1". I did not support the car on the jack under the wheel hub. That would be dangerous as the hub could turn and slid off the jack.. I think this meets the intent to slide all the bolts in service condition. 

Lastly, removing removing and tighting the massive bolt which secures the CV axle to the wheel bearing unit required my 24" breaker bar plus an additional 18" cheater. If you need to do your brakes, I recommend that you buy all the parts because you are going to disassemble the brakes during the process. Also, do not press the piston in using a clamp to reinstall. You can damage it. You'll notice the piston has two indentions on the face. There is a special tool but you can use a pair of needle nose pliers to set into the indentions. Turn the piston clockwise and press in. The piston should collapse. Also be sure the brake reservoir is not full before doing this process to insure you don't introduce pressure into a closed system.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Great post! I understand at last why I had to pay for an alignment as well when mine was changed!


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## kmf (Jan 26, 2006)

This is a job where having the right tools and experience really makes a difference.


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

I had the right tools, but definitely not the experience. Of those 16 hours, I spent 2 hours fixing my brand new 12 point which rounded due to the extreme amount of pressure needed and cleaning up some corrosion on the wheel bearing housing. If I were to do it a second time, I could do it in half the time I imagine, but it still is quite the job for the amateur. If your lacking skills, this is a job better left to the professionals in my opinion.


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> If your lacking skills, this is a job better left to the professionals in my opinion.


Having done a rear bearing myself, I 100% agree with your assesment. Now, the reason for me visiting this thread is that I have two more bearings sitting on my garage table: both fronts should now be replaced. After doing the left rear I decided that I'll never do the same again so a workshop did the right rear. Some time has passed by, I feel lucky again, and am wondering if the fronts would be any easier than the rear to DIY....? 

Jouko


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## vwgeorge2 (Mar 24, 2008)

zenmoused said:


> Ok, so looking for some info if anyone knows- does the axle need to be fully removed from the hub in order to get to the four spline bolts that hold it on? I've removed the alignment bolt from the upper control arm so that the hub would have some more play, but the boot around the axle makes it impossible to fit my socket in there.
> 
> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!




Zen,

I thought my *drivers* rear wheel bearing was bad? So after 3 days of playing with the axle  I just took the knuckle completely off the car and wow did that make the job easier!!!....

So, after completion and during the test drive I realized it was indeed the *passenger* rear bearing that was bad :banghead:

This time I knew the process well and I had the old bearing out in less than 45 minutes :thumbup:

In my opinion removing the knuckle is the only way to do this job 

Unfortunately while pressing in the new bearing I realized they sent me the wrong part 

New part will arrive tomorrow morning, but here are a few pics to look at.

Bill


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## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

I had started another thread regarding my wheel bearing/ABS issue, but I think this thread might be a better place for me to ask questions. If anyone is interested, here is my original thread; http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...l-bearing-replacement&p=89282065#post89282065

In summary, I had the left rear wheel bearing replaced last spring. It was replaced with a SKF bearing that I provided to the shop (part # SKF FW81). After replacing the bearing, I started getting ABS faults at the left rear (I have VCDS). The light would not come on immediately, but would within a few minutes of driving. Replaced ABS sensor, no change. I am now of the opinion that there may be something incompatible about the SKF replacement bearing. While it is very difficult to find specific details on how the ABS sensors work, it is my understanding that they are monitoring rotation of something within, or attached to, the bearing, since there is no external toothed ring. Having said that, in the photos posted by vwgeorge2 on this thread, there appears to be a ribbed surface on the back of the bearing that he removed from his car. I do not recall seeing such a surface on the SKF bearing before it was installed. I am preparing to remove my bearing/hub to see if there is indeed any sort of surface that would appear to activate the abs signal.

I would certainly welcome any suggestions as to what might be occurring here, or whether I seem to be on the right path in suspecting the bearing? Obviously, if any one else has used this SKF replacement bearing with good results, that would be interesting to know as well.

Thanks,
Roger


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## kmf (Jan 26, 2006)

When it comes to the wheel speed sensors OE and aftermarket parts do not always play nice together. I am not saying that is the issue, just keep that in mind.

IIRC that part has a magnetic piece in the seal.


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## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

kmf said:


> Originally VW had 4F0 598 625 A listed as the part number for both the front and rear wheel bearing assemblies. These are the bearing, housing, and new hardware.
> 
> Now they changed the part listing to 3D0 498 607 and there is no supersession.
> 
> ...


I did a search for the "3D0" part, and I see that now this part has been discontinued. No replacement appears to be shown. Does anyone have any additional info on this? I haven't spoken to a VW dealer yet, I was just searching VW part suppliers online (Jim Ellis VW, etc.). That's great if the after market bearings aren't compatible and they no longer offer an OEM solution!!! Some shops such as ECS still show it available. Maybe they have some NOS laying around.

Roger


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## kmf (Jan 26, 2006)

Stinky999 said:


> I did a search for the "3D0" part, and I see that now this part has been discontinued. No replacement appears to be shown. Does anyone have any additional info on this?


When I check OE supersession history for 3D0 498 607 I am seeing it was replaced with 3D0 498 607 B.


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## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

kmf said:


> When I check OE supersession history for 3D0 498 607 I am seeing it was replaced with 3D0 498 607 B.


Got it. This is actually the part number that ECS shows as well. I should be able to get the bearing/hub off tonight and I'll see if I can see anything obviously wrong with the bearing and/or installation. If not, I will probably bite the bullet and buy the new OEM bearing/hub and keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks.
Roger


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## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

I managed to get the suspension apart enough to see where the ABS sensor rests above the signal ring on the bearing. I guess the "good news, bad news" is that everything appears normal, at least to me. Here is a photo. I apologize if this doesn't show up in the thread. I never really figured out how to proprly link to hosted photos.

http://1drv.ms/20lpiYB

The only thing I can think of is that possibly the way the SKF bearing seats in the knuckle causes the gap to be too wide between the sensor blade and the rotating tone ring on the bearing. However, the gap isn't very wide. I stuck a feeler gauge in there and I doubt it is any more than 0.8mm. I have no idea what the spec is for this gap, but I suppose if it is intended to be something like 0.3-0.5mm, this could be causing the erroneous behavior. 

Anyone have any additional info on this? Or do you see something in the photo that looks off?

Thanks.
Roger


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## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

Thought I would post an update for future reference. Got everything back together over the weekend and the ABS light did not come on. Been driving it the last couple days and everything is good. Maybe it was the OE bearing/hub, maybe I reassembled it better than the previous shop did, who knows? All I know for the first time in over a year, I'm driving a Phaeton with no warning lights on. Wunderbar!!!:beer:


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Congratulations!!! Enjoy your driving  Gabriel


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Well, now it was my turn.

Wheel bearing front: Easy.
Rear: About seven times as hard as the front for many reasons.

I changed both with wheel bearing housing in place, at least partly. Rear has to have some joints released due to the cramped conditions.

The rear one was really heavy corroded, not the slightest movement with a heavy air hammer. Usually it will turn after 3-4 attacks clockwise - anti clockwise.

After several attempts with rust solvents of different kinds including one with cooling spray in the mixture and careful heating: No progress at all...

Time for some thinking. Result: Use the wheel bolts in the thread in the hub and put some suitable piece between the wheel bolt and the wheel bearing housing to get a straight push. Alternate between 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock where you have the best support. Came out quite easy with a long handle, but it needed push to the last millimeter due to the heavy corrosion. If I would have done this first it would have saved me several hours. After some cleaning and all in the reverse order work done.

Cause of failure? I think it looks like corrosion in a place I have seen on as good as every bearing I have changed, at the top on the outer race. Could it be that this spot is left with less grease after it has been warm and the if the car is left standing for some time? The balls running on the sick race will have a really tough life under unhealthy temperature and will help the deterioration to accelerate by squeezing small parts against the inner race and put dents there aswell.


*Different metals fused together.*










*Sick outer race*



















*One bearing ball from the fresh side and one from the sick. *










*The inner race gets its share of abuse as well.*










Lennart


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## lelievre12 (Nov 25, 2015)

my rear bearings failed after 147K miles in my 2005 Phaeton. The replacement bearings including carriers were only $35 each on eBay but cost $900 at the dealer to change. Looking at the work that was involved I thought it would be best if the dealer did it! The car is now smooth as silk and quiet again


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## volkswagenphaeton (Feb 4, 2016)

*wheel bearings ?*

hello , my phaeton is making a high pitched sound from the rear and sometimes its kind of ritmic but constant only at speeds of 80-120 kmh , its very silent though , i can only hear it if i listen very carrefully ,i was wondering if it could be the wheel bearings or the rear differential because it isn't related with the turometer , is the sound of a wheel bearing or differential obvious ?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The wheel bearing sound varies with speed, it gets higher in pitch as you get faster, and will get noticeably worse over time.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Hello Volkswagenphaeton,

In my case the sound was not high pitched, rather a rumble and as said the pitch follows the speed. I could even feel a slight vibration.
You should be able to notice a difference in sound when turning and normally the sound increases when you turn in the opposite direction of the bad bearing side as the load on the bad bearing increases.
If there is no difference when turning it could be a common bearing or shaft in the drive train OR bad bearings on both sides. Been there, changed the gearbox after advice from VW technician just to find the humming rumbling noise to still be there, luckily not a Phaeton, though.
I thought I may be able to listen with a stetoscope when turning the raised wheel, but this kind of damage passes that test unnoticed as the load is on the opposite side of the bearing where everything is smooth and fine.

Lennart


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

On mine, the sound didn't change when I turned, although when a rear bearing went on my 944, it did change when turning. By higher in pitch, didn't mean it was a high-pitched sound, it starts low and increases in pitch, but it never got high-pitched.


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## volkswagenphaeton (Feb 4, 2016)

Thank you , you were really helpfull.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I'd describe mine as a hum rather than a rumble.


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## cbh123 (Aug 25, 2013)

Noise aside, a bad bearing will have play in it.
Jack up the car, grab the wheel top and bottom, and see if you can see any perceptible movement. 
This is how the techs diagnose it.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Neither I nor the VW tech could detect any play in mine by looking for movement. It will work on a worn out bearing but the ones with local damage will pass this test. All my changed bearings has been with local damage like the one in the images above. It will wear down to a detectable degree eventually to reveal itself, but it is not very entertaining to listen to it all the miles down the road to reach that point.

Lennart


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I agree. You can definitely have a noisy bearing _well_ before it ever has noticeable play in it.


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## Rausche (Jul 5, 2016)

Hi all,

My 2004 W12 is at ~65k miles and has recently developed a noticeable growling noise from the front passenger side, especially noticeable and variable while at low speeds turning around corners -- it seems very likely to me that this is a wheel bearing. I'm the 3rd owner of the vehicle and have no previous maintenance history on hand, so I'm not sure how well the vehicle was cared for before me, although I can say in general it appears to be in excellent shape.

I see part "3D0-498-607-B" listed as "Wheel Hub" in my parts catalog, and I understand this item number to correlate to the bearing assembly, bolts, and housing in a single package -- I intend to perform a full brake workshop on the front end (pads, calipers, rotors, bearings for both sides).

I have a question however -- is the general consensus that it is wise to replace the actual wheel hubs during bearing replacement? I understand that maybe this determination is made based upon visible wear evident on the hub spline during disassembly, but I'm curious if it is prudent or reasonable to just go ahead and order replacement hubs and bolts ahead of time, assuming I should just replace everything.

I understand the car has low-ish mileage for this procedure, but I would like to rule out anything that could be wonky with the rotating assembly so I can start moving ahead with what I consider to be a 'clean' maintenance record.

tl;dr - Does it make sense to replace hubs along with wheel bearings? Or are hubs generally a stable and non-wear item that can be reused?


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## Phat One (Jul 10, 2009)

It could also be just your tyres. I had a similar noise and was convinced it was the bearing until I replaced my tyres and the noise is no longer there


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## Rausche (Jul 5, 2016)

Wheels and tires are both on my near-term shopping list as well (chrome plating is badly pitted \ rotting off the wheels, tires are nearing end of useful life). I'm going to do the bearings regardless as I comb through the rotating assemblies, so really just curious if the Hubs are a wear item or not..


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I don't recall any discussion about replacing hubs. I know my hubs are now at 112k without any problems, although I've had one bearing replaced. The only things I'd consider replacing before failure would be things that would either leave me stranded, or were difficult to get to but could be replaced while working on something else (the thermostat springs to mind on the V8, you have to remove the timing belt to get to it). Replacing things that aren't broken gets expensive fast, and it's very rare to have a failure that leaves you stranded. The possible exception to that is the air struts.

I hate to say it, but my 2004 vehicle was very reliable up to about 70k, then several of the first-gen controllers failed, the worst being the ABS which disabled the throttle, I got home in third gear at tickover.

The fuel filter is an easy change, but mine was still spotless at 110k. The fuel pumps do fail, but not usually until the mileage is fairly high, mine are still good, they're also fairly expensive and difficult to do. You also mentioned replacing the calipers, and I'm at a loss to understand why you'd do that, especially at that mileage. 

The other thing to bear in mind with the W12 is the transmission fluid which needs to be changed every 20k (I think it's 20k). Of all the preventative maintenance tasks you might want to do, that is by far the most important.


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## Rausche (Jul 5, 2016)

invisiblewave said:


> I don't recall any discussion about replacing hubs. I know my hubs are now at 112k without any problems, although I've had one bearing replaced.


Cool. I'm pretty optimistic that the hubs can be pressed out of the old bearings without any real difficulty and be reused, but I've heard stories (on other cars) about corrosion occurring on the splines\hub shaft that warrants simultaneous replacement along with the bearings. Just not sure if that's something to expect with the Phaeton.



invisiblewave said:


> The only things I'd consider replacing before failure would be things that would either leave me stranded, or were difficult to get to but could be replaced while working on something else (the thermostat springs to mind on the V8, you have to remove the timing belt to get to it).


My thought here is that the brakes needs to get done, it's their time; and while I'm not totally convinced my bearings have failed it's certainly a possibility with the symptoms that I'm seeing. Since I'll have the front end apart for the brakes anyways, I figure I might as well save myself from some potential unnecessary labor and change the bearings now (either to fix the current failure that likely exists, or to prevent a failure that might occur in the next [hopefully] 30k-50k miles, before the brakes need work again).



invisiblewave said:


> The fuel filter is an easy change, but mine was still spotless at 110k. The fuel pumps do fail, but not usually until the mileage is fairly high, mine are still good, they're also fairly expensive and difficult to do.


The quality of gas used in the car before my ownership is unknowable. Filter is cheap and easy so might as well change it. I'm also experiencing some intermittent surging and periodic loss of throttle response that I think might be related to an under-performing primary pump. They might be expensive to replace but that comes rolled into owning this vehicle I think. My initial cost of ownership is still extremely cheap compared to MSRP for a comparable vehicle even by today's standards. I'm OK with eating the cost of any repairs or PM that needs to get done.



invisiblewave said:


> You also mentioned replacing the calipers, and I'm at a loss to understand why you'd do that, especially at that mileage.


Front passenger side caliper sticks intermittently. Scorched my hand on the rim once after a long trip on a windy\hilly road. I do brake-work in pairs so both sides must be replaced uniformly. Got myself a cheap set of used caliper cores on eBay and sent them out to be rebuilt by a shop and polymer coated so they'll look nice behind the rims. Paid less for the whole rebuild & coat job for both used cores than the cost of 1 brand new caliper from VW. I think it's likely that the brake fluid is very old, and the previous owners did not drive the vehicle regularly, so most of the brake components might be dry-rotted or otherwise suffering from degradation due to general lack of use.



invisiblewave said:


> The other thing to bear in mind with the W12 is the transmission fluid which needs to be changed every 20k (I think it's 20k). Of all the preventative maintenance tasks you might want to do, that is by far the most important.


Dealer has this in the 120k service interval that I am quoted out for. Not sure if it's every 20k or not but we don't know when it was done last, so it's getting done now so I can restart the clock (much like many other items being replaced -- fluids, batteries, bearings, filters, etc).

Thank you for your input.


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## wobegong (Dec 30, 2014)

Phat One said:


> It could also be just your tyres. I had a similar noise and was convinced it was the bearing until I replaced my tyres and the noise is no longer there


I can second this - my car had cheap tyres on when purchased and the noise was just like wheel bearings - Googled my tyre make and others had the same thing so changed them and now super quiet.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Could absolutely be the tyres, even top of the line. Saw tooth wear makes the wheel bearing noise so well that it takes the more skilled tech at the workshop to go in the right direction.

Lennart


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Screen dump from a virtual machine on a PC to the phone... well, not the best quality but it shows what to look for. You can see or feel this if it is so pronounced that it makes " wheel bearing noise"

Lennart


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## Raven23c (Apr 8, 2016)

I was hearing excessive road noise which varied depending on my speed and then I was began to detect just the slightest vibration through the accelerator pedal. After reading through the whole of this thread it helped me confirm my initial decision that one of my wheel bearings was worn

I took my car to the local VW dealership and they looked at it straight away and confirmed that my right hand rear wheel bearing needed changing. I’ve booked it in to be done. Total cost £320 all in with a 24 month guarantee.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That's a pretty good deal at the current exchange rate!umpkin:


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

*ahhhh, it's my turn now.*

I have released all four bolts from behind the bearing, now I need to get it loose.
I have not removed anything to release the 4 bolts, I bought a 30mm XZN-12 for the 2 lower ones, and used a 100mm XZN-12 for the upper ones.
Heating the bearing housing and the bolts where giving in quite easy. Also one must loosen the center bolt and push the drive shaft in a bit to get the tool fairly straight, and knock the XZN into the bolt, after cleaning it.

So, I didn't read this thread before trying all you did Lennart, heating, rust-remover, banging, hitting, dynamite, and nothing works.:banghead:
Now I found your solution and am going to try that.

I guess that the bearing housing and the wheel hub comes out together and that the splines in the drive shaft is just gliding out of the bearing?
And the next step is to press the wheel hub out of the bearing, and press it into the new one, then assemble all back into the P?

Wiken


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

gwiken65 said:


> I guess that the bearing housing and the wheel hub comes out together and that the splines in the drive shaft is just gliding out of the bearing?
> And the next step is to press the wheel hub out of the bearing, and press it into the new one, then assemble all back into the P?
> 
> Wiken


You are right, the hub and bearing with housing comes out in one unit. It looks like you are going to reuse the hub. It is very important to avoid applying great force on the outer half of the hub. As little as 2 to 3 hundreds of a mm throw on the edge of the hub will cause the brake disc to warp and that does not show before about 5000 km. Been there twice before identifying the reason for the warpage.
After that it is as you say, press out the hub from the inner bearing ring and you need to get the outer ring out of the housing aswell. I don’t remember any big problems with that part of the work.
I pushed the complete unit out using the wheel bolts through the hub pushing against well placed blocks behind against a good surface but from what I know today I would only apply a bit of helping force there and apply the main force in a diagonal sequence on the bolts you removed screwed back with enough play to allow the unit to slide out bit by bit and follow with some turns on the bolts to allow some more movement.
Good luck!

Lennart


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

ravenflies said:


> You are right, the hub and bearing with housing comes out in one unit. It looks like you are going to reuse the hub. It is very important to avoid applying great force on the outer half of the hub. As little as 2 to 3 hundreds of a mm throw on the edge of the hub will cause the brake disc to warp and that does not show before about 5000 km. Been there twice before identifying the reason for the warpage.
> After that it is as you say, press out the hub from the inner bearing ring and you need to get the outer ring out of the housing aswell. I don’t remember any big problems with that part of the work.
> I pushed the complete unit out using the wheel bolts through the hub pushing against well placed blocks behind against a good surface but from what I know today I would only apply a bit of helping force there and apply the main force in a diagonal sequence on the bolts you removed screwed back with enough play to allow the unit to slide out bit by bit and follow with some turns on the bolts to allow some more movement.
> Good luck!
> ...


Thanks Lennart.
That's very good info.
I hope I can get it out without scraping anything. 
Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Hi all.
I finally got the wheel bearing house to come off.
I heated the aluminum to about 200°C or 392°F.
Then it started to come out.
I have some pictures here to show how it looked on my P. 
I cleaned it from all corrosion and added a semiprecious metal of copper paste between the steel and the aluminum, and hoping that the corrosion will be far less the next time. 
Wiken 
















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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Have you mounted the bearings already? If not, replace the copper paste with aluminium paste. Copper will react with the aluminium! If already mounted, well, I am sorry to be the one bringing bad news...

Lennart


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Ok, how interesting. 
Can silver paste be better?
I can change, haven't mounted the bearing yet.
Thanks Lennart. 
Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

gwiken65 said:


> Ok, how interesting.
> Can silver paste be better?
> I can change, haven't mounted the bearing yet.
> Thanks Lennart.
> ...


Good news then!
Every metal more precious than aluminium will cause contact corrosion and that is what has happend here. So I don’t think silver paste is a good idea.
Service manual says G 052 109 A2 but I don’t remember using that, think I used aluminium paste. I would use it on more of the surface than in the picture after seeing the result of ageing in the real world.









Lennart


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Hi.
Today I put my P together again. I did change one thing. Instead of using aluminum paste I used ceramic paste. That has no metal in it, and can withstand 1400 °C.
Wiken 









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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Ceramic paste should do the work and should be neutral to the different metals. 

Lennart




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