# VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

other then money...which is better all around for a vr6...SS tubular header or the cast manifold?
tell me why.....power? reliablity? cracking? heat etc etc etc?!!??!
this 









VS












_Modified by nothingleavesstock at 2:25 PM 4-4-2007_


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## yellowslc (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (nothingleavesstock)*



nothingleavesstock said:


> other then money...which is better all around for a vr6...SS tubular header or the cast manifold?
> tell me why.....power? reliablity? cracking? heat etc etc etc?!!??!
> this
> 
> ...


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## blowndub (Mar 27, 2007)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (yellowslc)*

tubular sounds cooler for sure!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif More power too i think. Looks a lot cooler also. If i had to choose i'd go tubular for sure. Not too many tubular mani's around for a 2.0 though so i'm stuck with cast.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (blowndub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blowndub* »_tubular sounds cooler for sure!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif More power too i think. Looks a lot cooler also. If i had to choose i'd go tubular for sure. Not too many tubular mani's around for a 2.0 though so i'm stuck with cast.

So basically, you have no idea, but would definitely pick one over the other. Yep, sounds like Vortex.


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## turboit (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (nothingleavesstock)*

well basically, no one really has proven any big horsepower gains with a tubular manifold. All the fastest VR6's currently are using cast manifolds, (ATP, Kinetic,PAG) Big power meaning 600+whp. I'd stick with Cast manifold...cheaper, more reliable down the road more likely and proven to flow well enough to make a lot of unusable power.


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## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (turboit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turboit* »_well basically, no one really has proven any big horsepower gains with a tubular manifold. All the fastest VR6's currently are using cast manifolds, (ATP, Kinetic,PAG) Big power meaning 600+whp. I'd stick with Cast manifold...cheaper, more reliable down the road more likely and proven to flow well enough to make a lot of unusable power.

tubular have been proven, just not on alot of VW's...


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_So basically, you have no idea, but would definitely pick one over the other. Yep, sounds like Vortex. 

looks give you 10whp http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## J.Q. Public (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (nothingleavesstock)*

Disregarding the associated cost, Tublar manifolds are better hands down. 
Some of the benefits include:
Turbo placement
Peak power gains
Gains throughout the power band
It's a draw on reliabilty and cracking, a properly designed and built Tubular is just as reliable as a cast
Now that being said, Cast manifolds have proven to make quite a bit of power, and has been stated, the current high hp US cars all use a cast manifold. Don't confuse this to mean they are better, just that they can get the job done from 400whp all the way on up to 800whp.


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## turboit (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_
tubular have been proven, just not on alot of VW's... 

I stand corrected..I meant to say Vr6 turbos. 
My Question is what are your plans for this vehicle. If you are going for all out full on race car then I would go for the tubular manifold...blah, blah, blah. But for a street car making roughly about 400whp or so I would stick with a cast manifold. "Most" people don't drive there street cars and use the big turbos to fully utilize the full potential to warrant the cost of a tubular VR6 manifold. Just my .02


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (turboit)*

log manifold is better in spool and takes up less space. that's about it though, while the tubular will take a bit longer to spool the turbo the top end kills a log mani.
check out this thread from Honda-Tech. They gained 48WHP and 44 lb/ft of torque just by switching from a log mani to a tubular one.
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=925312
and that was just on 10psi.
But the tubular is going to be more prone to stress cracking. I highly recommend to support the turbo and mani to the head to help reduce cracking.


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## ntonar (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
So basically, you have no idea, but would definitely pick one over the other. Yep, sounds like Vortex.


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## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (DarkSideGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DarkSideGTI* »_log manifold is better in spool and takes up less space. that's about it though, while the tubular will take a bit longer to spool the turbo the top end kills a log mani.

But the tubular is going to be more prone to stress cracking. I highly recommend to support the turbo and mani to the head to help reduce cracking.

A properly built T4 divided mani can out spool any log T4 mani.... I mean if a 2L GSR engine can spool a GT4294r 1.28 a/r at 5500rpm that 28psi at that rpm and a few hundred rpm more to 40+ psi i bet a VR with a good head can do better. But what do i know lol


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (DarkSideGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DarkSideGTI* »_They gained 48WHP and 44 lb/ft of torque just by switching from a log mani to a tubular one.

Bobqzzi carried out a similar test switching from a cast log unit to a full-race unit which produced similar results as stated above.


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## jeremy757 (Jul 16, 2006)

who sells the tubular manifolds? i want one just because they look beautiful.


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## clarksongli (Nov 4, 2003)

*Re: (jeremy757)*

killa on the vortex makes them
tubular ones do flow better......but a lot of companies still use cast not only because its cheaper and still reliable, but also because they do very well in heat.....with cast there never really is any heat wrapping and so forth.....with tubular, more heat is able to expel


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: (clarksongli)*

race craft fab makes them...$1300 and a 2 month wait...
from what i heard killa doesn't make vr6 ones...just 4 bangers...


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## blowndub (Mar 27, 2007)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
So basically, you have no idea, but would definitely pick one over the other. Yep, sounds like Vortex. 
 
No what i ment by sounds cooler is they really do sound a lot better in the exhaust. I do know what i'm talking about there cool guy. Just wondering why do all the race teams run tubular? I'm sure if they could save a buck and go cast cause there is no benefit i think they would.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (blowndub)*

i was on a race team-the Sc world challenge. they do not care about save a dime....the want to get as much out of the car as they can...they will pay 1000's for 1 hp...
when we built motors...we got 4 of everything, mesuured, wieghed, inspected each of the 4 same parts and picked the best ones, got rid of the others! racing and this are differnt
i was more looking into the power differnce, and will it last on a street car that will be driven under 5K a year if not way less...


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## blowndub (Mar 27, 2007)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (nothingleavesstock)*

Well, I’m a welding engineer and agree with the above about how a tube mani will last for a long time if it was built right. The right grade of base material with the right filler and welded with a purge and fully penetrated will last ya a very long time. All these nickel plated ones for looks crack all the time cause of how there made. Other stainless mani's welded half ass without a purge so as not to penetrate the inside and sugar it will crack eventually. If they do penetrate it with no purge then ya go little carbide boogers on the inside and the potential for cracking is there.
Cast mani's crack because they cool to quickly as well as stainless. Stainless not as much though. If it's cold outside the potential for cracking becomes even greater. Turbo timers are not only good to save your bushings and bearings, but to let the mani and exhaust housing cool below the cracking threshold slow enough.


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (nothingleavesstock)*

Like many said before tubular flows much better and can be tuned for certain rpm range.
I went from a modded ATP to a custom tubular tuned for 4-8k in lenght.
There are HUGE gains.
But there are also issues with keeping the energy inside the mani for launch for street cars.
But overall performance is so great. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
After 2k it just outflows the cast ones with their strange huge internal area differences and miss match ports.
Ive had mine since 1999 ....no cracks ...and home made by me and my friends
This year ive added coating and wrap to keep all energy for the turbine.
But still ill guess ATP or kinetic is best choice for street tuned 300whp cars.


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## need a vdub (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast ([email protected])*

There is a VRT here in phx that spent months developing a Tube mani. Gained 30HP (dont know if it was WHP) with the final product on the same tune boost ect. 
He has posted on here. Red corrado shaved engine bay GT30R http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MKippen (Nov 6, 2000)

Rob at Flipside customs has fabricated dozens of tubular equal length manifolds before - for miatas and hondas, and he has just got some flanges made for the vr6.
check out http://www.flipsidecustoms.com - he can get it done for you.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (need a vdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need a vdub* »_There is a VRT here in phx that spent months developing a Tube mani. Gained 30HP (dont know if it was WHP) with the final product on the same tune boost ect. 
He has posted on here. Red corrado shaved engine bay GT30R http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Ironically, I have a red Corrado vr6 with a GT35R, and my brother is in PHX and he spent months building this...
















Any tubular manifold has a chance at cracking, no matter how good the fabrication and materials used. There is just too many variables to ever make it completely fool proof. Alot of failures can be avoided by good common sense and preparation.
As far as power, I have no doubt a good tubular manifold with a good collector will make big gains over an ATP style manifold. As a side note, it is not unheard of for cast manifolds to also crack, but it's not as commonplace.


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

what material is it made of and do you have any close up pictures?


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*

Were you asking me or one of the other posters? If you were asking me, I can pm you some extra pics.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (nothingleavesstock)*

Bringing this back from the dead.Trying to get the 24V off the ground and I am faced with the following which basically boils down to cost/HP gained.
We have successfully used the cast 12V VR6 ATP manifold all the way to 648whp.It was not ported out or anything and held up just fine.
With the 24V head I am looking @ more than double for a cast manifold.So I figured instead of spending $600+US on a cast unit why not put that money towrads something else.
*1.* Full tubular manifold like the sleepers unit:








*or 2.* A Y-Pipe like Jim Burlew's unit using the stock R32/2.8 exhaust manifolds.









Anyone have any BTDT?Testing?anything to compare the 2?


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## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (Wizard-of-OD)*

i got some stock 24v exhaust mani's, if you need them hit me up with an offer.


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## TheSykestGTI (Dec 17, 2007)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (Wizard-of-OD)*

where can i get one of these y pipes?


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## UBER KUHL (May 16, 2005)

my dad did a y-pipe on his 12v and it spools great. Compared to the last manifold he did (eip clone) the new top mounted y-pipe seems to spool a lot better. Our reason for doing it this way was for better turbo placement, appearance, and just looking at the manifold, it seems it flows well. All of this is considering the factory cast manifolds flow well (by looking at them, it appears they would flow pretty well) Hope this helps some.
heres a few pics.
























We arent possitive the wastegate is in the best place for flow, but we wanted the abillity to change the spring with ease, and couldnt find a better spot(it seems to be working fine) Edit: Also was placed for easy way to re-route back into the dp.










_Modified by UBER KUHL at 10:42 AM 12-24-2007_


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (UBER KUHL)*

I have a hard time trying to respect your opinion on exhaust manifolds when you are running the flipside intake manifold.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I have a hard time trying to respect your opinion on exhaust manifolds when you are running the flipside intake manifold.









If you are referring to 'uber kuhl', then that is not a flipside intake. They made the intake manifold in house just like the exhaust manifold http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (TheSykestGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheSykestGTI* »_where can i get one of these y pipes? 

James Burlew (zornig)
So about that data?


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## turboit (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_











Anyone know what coating that is on the manifold, exhaust housing, and dp? Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (turboit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turboit* »_
Anyone know what coating that is on the manifold, exhaust housing, and dp? Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Looks like Swain Tech's white coating.


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## Passenger Performance (Nov 11, 2005)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_
Any tubular manifold has a chance at cracking, no matter how good the fabrication and materials used. There is just too many variables to ever make it completely fool proof. Alot of failures can be avoided by good common sense and preparation.

Completely untrue. I build tubular manifolds for a living and I have never, EVER had one crack. My tubular manifolds take a beating in the baja1000 with 55lb turbos hanging from them, no bracing... These trucks are getting 8ft of air in the race to boot. They don't carry spare manifolds, because they won't crack or fail. Why not? Because I use the proper materials, welding procedures, fabrication techniques, and coatings.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (Passenger Performance)*

My questions to you are then...
a) Approximately how many manifolds have you built? 100? 1000? How long have they been in use (how many races/seasons)? Are they all accounted for?
b) Are these manifolds externally wastegated? Even halfway decent manifolds never fail at the runner/flanges, they all fail on the wastegate weld. If you aren't putting on a wastegate flange, odds are the manifold won't fail.
c) Are these manifolds mass produced or are they made per customer, off that customers EXACT car?
When I say 'too many variables', I mean to say that when you make "off the shelf" manifolds for a particular engine/chassis, the fate of the manifold is often in the hands of the installer. I've seen weld els and pipe crack right in half (aka not on a weld or joint) when the engine moves and the wastegate smacks against something that the installer should have removed and/or trimmed. 
Everything has a chance at cracking. You can decrease that chance, but never eliminate it. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it's impossible. 




_Modified by leebro61 at 8:44 PM 12-26-2007_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (Passenger Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Passenger Performance* »_I build tubular manifolds for a living and I have never, EVER had one crack. 

That maybe true but not for as long as Lee's bro (Jesse).Familiar with work by either Peakboost or Arizona Forced Induction?


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## Passenger Performance (Nov 11, 2005)

Yes I am familiar with Jesse's work, and I really like it, but fact of the matter is I have been building manifolds prior to Jesse's start, its too bad he was banned from H-t, I enjoyed seeing their stuff up there.
As for how many manifolds? I would guess around 1000, downpipes, double that. Externally gated, around 150 or less. I have some exhaust manifolds that are on their third season of rally racing. Street cars, not sure how long. Some manifolds are mass produced, about 25% are custom to the vehicle which would be pretty much all the off road race ones.
As far as I know they are all accounted for, if there was a failure I would definitely hear about it.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (Passenger Performance)*

Do you have a website or something? I've seen your work here posted in the fabrication section on Vortex and it all looked very nice. 
When did you start building manifolds? PM me if you like


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## Passenger Performance (Nov 11, 2005)

Had a website, its down getting updated, as soon as I get my jetta done I'll have some time to get it back up. I think I built my first manifold about 8 years ago, only gotten into it hardcore in the last few years.
Does your bro post on any other fab forums? I'd like to see what he is up to these days. I thought it was pretty cool how fast he got up on his own after peak boost.


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## California Jay (Sep 1, 2004)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (Passenger Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Passenger Performance* »_
Completely untrue. I build tubular manifolds for a living and I have never, EVER had one crack. My tubular manifolds take a beating in the baja1000 with 55lb turbos hanging from them, no bracing... These trucks are getting 8ft of air in the race to boot. They don't carry spare manifolds, because they won't crack or fail. Why not? Because I use the proper materials, welding procedures, fabrication techniques, and coatings.

wow...bold statement.


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## Passenger Performance (Nov 11, 2005)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (silly_sohc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silly_sohc* »_
wow...bold statement. 

It is, but it is working.


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## California Jay (Sep 1, 2004)

I'm just finding your statments a bit, umm " cloudy" b/c of your past posts and inquiries to welding only last year, you were/are "[email protected]" on other forums and this one at one time? 
To aid the topic at hand... take a search on H-T as others state....you will find longer tubular pieces make more power... as to compare a 3-2-1 over a 6-1 tubular header... the 6-1 will make more power. If some of you move over to investigate Cosworth turbo engines you will see over and over again equal length runners come out on top in bore/stroke sizes similar to VR6 and 1.8t engines. We don't see this sort of comparision or emphasis on these forums due to the lack of big hp motorsport with VW in past years. Ford/Cosworth turbo engines have been in Motorsport for decades. On average a 15" runner will do best.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: VR6 turbo....tube manifold VS "log" or cast (Passenger Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Passenger Performance* »_
It is, but it is working.

I'm a little confused, are you "[email protected]" on honda-tech?


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## Passenger Performance (Nov 11, 2005)

Yes this is Dave, realize though that the [email protected] account at honda-tech is shared by everyone in my shop, everyone is too lazy to make their own and/or switch accounts when they post.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (silly_sohc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silly_sohc* »_as to compare a 3-2-1 over a 6-1 tubular header... the 6-1 will make more power.


Jay the 3-2-1 is for the twin scroll set up.Is this speaking from personal experience or from data you acquired recently?


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## GT42r_Hatch (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Jay the 3-2-1 is for the twin scroll set up.Is this speaking from personal experience or from data you acquired recently?

most of the time the 6-1 will make more "peak" power...I believe however you can have the best of both worlds with a properly built twin scroll setup, exhaust housing size and cams are critical to achieving this.
As for cracking...I don't know anyone that can claim they have never had a manifold crack and Im around quite a few manifolds and know plenty of others who also do this at the production level. I know my first year doing this on my own we did just shy of 600 manifolds. On record 14 of those came back and were fixed or replaced. 13 of the 14 were wastegates ( atleast 75% of these were early sch 10 manifolds) The 1 runner that cracked was an early manifold out of a new fixture where a runner was too close to another and expansion occured. 14 out of 600 is roughly 2.5% failure rate. I would say half of the 14 failures were out of our control (wastegate hitting FMIC upon motor movement, water being spilt, etc)....The others, you learn from and constantly improve the product. In the end i don't know of ANY race part that has a 0% failure rate...


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## GT42r_Hatch (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: (Passenger Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Passenger Performance* »_
Does your bro post on any other fab forums? I'd like to see what he is up to these days. I thought it was pretty cool how fast he got up on his own after peak boost.


I dont' get online much anymore...just work it seems







We have been doing alot of Porsche 996tt stuff along with building up a S2000 for Time Attack events this season and some other new products...I'll post some stuff up this week in the fab forum


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (GT42r_Hatch)*

With all the talk about building tubular manifolds has anyone built (Or willing to build) a twin scroll turbo manifold for a VR6 similar to what full race is doing for the evo?


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_With all the talk about building tubular manifolds has anyone built (Or willing to build) a twin scroll turbo manifold for a VR6 similar to what full race is doing for the evo?


I considered going twin scroll for my manifold, but I wasn't sure how I would do the divisions. It doesn't work out nicely like a 4 cylinder manifold.
Here is a K series t4 manifold made by Jesse (gt42r_hatch).


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_With all the talk about building tubular manifolds has anyone built (Or willing to build) a twin scroll turbo manifold for a VR6 similar to what full race is doing for the evo?


i talked to Geoff Raicer about it. It didnt seem to be worth it with the 12vs crappy head flow. It's also going to be more problematic with the VR design.


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## Passenger Performance (Nov 11, 2005)

I am willing to build a twin scroll 6 cylinder manifold for the vr6. Heres a twin scroll 6 cylinder manifold I built for some cummins engines for the baja1000.


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## Passenger Performance (Nov 11, 2005)

Jesse, I would love to see what you guys are working on, especially the 996tt stuff. I used to do a lot of older 930, 964, 993 stuff, haven't in a couple years now, I should get back into those cars they sure are fun.
As for the cracking, I am still waiting for a weld failure on ANYTHING I've done. I've obviously experienced material failure, but not weld failures. I'm not saying it will never happen, but I am very confident in the stuff I build. The biggest thing that has given me the confidence and lack of failures has been industry experience and training, NOT in the automotive industry. Working in the sanitary field welding .065 tubing up to sch80 pipe all ranging from 1/8" O.D. to 10" O.D., holding anywhere from 10 psi to 20,000psi gave me a lot experience really fast.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_It didnt seem to be worth it with the 12vs crappy head flow.

Ye,I dont think he liked the 648whp figure though.

_Quote, originally posted by *Passenger Performance* »_I am willing to build a twin scroll 6 cylinder manifold for the vr6. 

Would you start from scratch?What about the Y-pipe vs a complete manifold.


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## Passenger Performance (Nov 11, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Ye,I dont think he liked the 648whp figure though.
Would you start from scratch?What about the Y-pipe vs a complete manifold.

I would prefer to build one from scratch, but if you guys are hell bent on Y pipes I could build those too.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Passenger Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Passenger Performance* »_
I would prefer to build one from scratch, but if you guys are hell bent on Y pipes I could build those too.

I am not hell bent on anything.I want to know if a tubular is needed vs using the stock manifolds + Y-pipe.There are 3 tubular VR6 manifolds in existance that I know of,only 1 of them is on a running motor.


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## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

I'd say money wise, best bet is to just gasket match and port out stock mnifolds and make a Y-pipe


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## Passenger Performance (Nov 11, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I am not hell bent on anything.I want to know if a tubular is needed vs using the stock manifolds + Y-pipe.There are 3 tubular VR6 manifolds in existance that I know of,only 1 of them is on a running motor.

Oh ok, yes you will see gains over just a Y pipe setup when compared to a properly built tubular manifold. Reason being is that you can pair cylinders for proper scavenging along with a good collectors, and you can also make proper primary lengths that take the different length ports into consideration. This will allow for balanced pressure and proper scavenging.


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## Passenger Performance (Nov 11, 2005)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_I'd say money wise, best bet is to just gasket match and port out stock mnifolds and make a Y-pipe

True, but for people looking to push the envelope tubular is the way to go.


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## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

All depends on either-
a. how good your fabrication skills are
or
b. how deep your pockets are


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