# Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have...



## RogueTDI (Dec 12, 2002)

Could it be? Does this car offer much much more than meets the eye? I think it does, in many ways. In fact, forget any possibly negative initial reaction to the looks - this car is very advanced and ahead of its time; it is the shape of automotive things to come, literally and figuratively.
This isnt my absolute dream car. I think however it would make a *great* commuter or daily-driver vehicle, especially for long-term ownership. It's bigger than it looks - about 10 inches shorter than a Golf IV (see small comparison pic down below). It's definitely a very "green" car - would be perfect for people who want to minimize their consumption of resources, not only in driving, but also in ownership - the car could last easily 20+ years. And when it's time to scrap, it's aluminum construction makes it very recyclable. 
It has plenty of other available nice features too - in-dash nav, television system, electronic parking aid, all sorts of electronics, electric seats, plenty of details and creature comforts, etc. Very classy, *very roomy* for its deceptively diminutive size. It's got the "fastback" hatch configuration (well, basically like the Prius's config) with fully folding rear seat area, and _removable rear seats_, making it very practical for cargo. It also has some really great aerodynamics of course - a Cd of .28 (the 1.2L TDI has special aero enhancements to bring Cd to .25, equalling the record-holding Honda Insight, and beating out the Prius's Cd .26; this makes it the only 5 door "3L car" in the world - 80mpg highway, better than Insight, with the practicality of a Golf).
I'd opt for the 1.4L 90hp/170lbft TDI, averaging about 53mpg, with 65-70mpg easily possible on the highway (the 110hp 1.4L FSI gives ~40mpg average). Performance is not too shabby - 10.9s 0-62mph. A bit of performance modding would put it under 10s, which would be more than enough for fun driving.
I don't expect that I'd be in the market for a small hatchback for my next car, but if I was, I think I'd take this over say a Golf V, depending on price. It's just a little smaller than a GolfIV, and probably wouldnt offer quite the performance potential engine-wise, but otherwise it is much more fuel efficient, and efficiently designed, and I think more functional. I wouldnt get a hatchback for performance anyway, but as an all-purpose practical/commuter/cargo car. This thing is very practical, potentially fun to drive, and lightweight, like the original Golf, thanks to all-aluminum construction (which saves about 40% over steel - about 270lbs just from the space frame itself) - the 1.4L TDI is about 2250lb I think. The aluminum spaceframe also makes it very strong and safe. It incorporates many advanced Audi features, like heat-reflecting glass to keep you cool on hot days (reduced or eliminated need for AC, and solar shields when parking), as well as other special Audi advancements/accoutrements.
I think a 1.4L TDI package could be had for low-mid $20s USD. I think it would potentially sell great over here, with rising fuel prices, and more and more similar small offerings from competitors, like the Mini, or even Chevy Aveo, and small Suzuki vehicles (the A2 is a bit bigger I think, and those are a lot less expensive). Perhaps Mercedes will bring over it's A Class, which would be comparable.
On an aside, comparing to the Prius: The A2 seems sorta like a German version of the Prius. It came about it seems around the same time as the Prius (concept circa 96/97, intro/production in 99). The A2 has better mileage, but without hybridization. This is thanks to a very aerodynamic design, a relatively small and efficient diesel engine, and lightweight aluminum construction. The aluminum construction is what adds the most cost premium to this fuel efficient car. According to this analysis ( http://www.tms.org/pubs/journa....html ) the cost premium of the aluminum construction is around $1100, materials and process included. Combining with the additional cost of the diesel of perhaps $500, to at most $1000, compared to say an FSI gasoline engine, your looking at about $1500-2000 premium to get a _real_ 53mpg average compared to a steel A2 with standard FSI getting somewhere around perhaps 34mpg average (aluminum with FSI is known to get 39mpg, so I'm guessing a drop to ~34mpg; Al is about 40% lighter than steel). So, you get about 50% better average mileage, with comparable performance, for under $2000 USD (TDI plus lightweight Al construction). This is compared to at least $2-3k premium for a steel-bodied hybrid such as the Prius, which offers around 44mpg average real-world, comparable acceleration, a bit more size, and a fair bit more weight. For highway driving, the A2 TDI gives about 65mpg (real-world), vs the Prius at perhaps 50 at best (EPA 52, exaggerated) - you get 30% more mileage with the TDI. Accounting for weight difference, I'd guess a TDI in the Prius would give about 25-30% better mileage than with the gas engine hybrid. Essentially, I'm just comparing, and showing that a diesel solution makes as much sense, if not more, than a hybrid. You can get the same or more for less money, excluding unforseen emissions device costs (perhaps $1000 additional to meet upcoming NOx limits). Just an aside, but I thought it interesting.
Anyone else intrigued by this great car we cannot get? I mean, not even for the diesel, but just as a car (gas options also available).








Good general info:
http://www.autointell.com/euro...2.htm
http://www.greenconsumerguide.com/audi.php
http://www.audiworld.com/news/...shtml
Check out some basic sales material at the UK Audi site (they don't offer every model/feature, and remember, british gallons):
http://www.audi.co.uk/newcars/...=true
German Car Fans (GCF) has good info and pics:
http://www.germancarfans.com/s...a.y=8

A very interesting analysis of the economic feasibility of all-aluminum construction, which suggest about a $1000 premium for the aluminum contruction of the A2:
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journa....html
And of course pics:

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Bigger version of that one: http://www.automotriz.net/imag...1.jpg

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1.6L FSI:

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1.4L TDI:

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This gives an idea of the size - A2 next to a Golf IV (small pic is best I could find):

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Good cut-away view (cant host here): http://www.audi.piwko.pl/pliki/audi_a2_30_8x6.jpg

Prius pic for comparison:

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Some reviews:

_Quote »_
Audi A2 Receives Four Stars 
Text and photos courtesy of Audi AG
07-08-2002

With four stars according to the Euro NCAP (New Car Assessment Programme) standard, the Audi A2 has again proved that passive safety and systematic lightweight construction can be combined effectively. The outstanding result for this class of car was made possible by the Audi Space Frame (ASF). 
The Audi A2’s extremely rigid aluminium body structure incurred only minimum deformation to the passenger cell in a frontal crash conducted at a speed of 64 km/h, thus providing the occupants with a high level of protection. In the side impact and side post impact tests it scored 16 and two points – in each case the best possible rating. 
In 2000 the German car organisation ADAC, the Euro NCAP consortium’s partner for these tests, stated: “As far as crash-test rigidity is concerned, the A2 is right at the top.” 
Since it was set up in 1997, Euro NCAP has been dedicated to supplying consumers with realistic, independently assessed passive safety values for popular car models. 
http://www.germancarfans.com/n...8.001 




_Quote »_
...
New Sport versions introduced 
Available allied to both petrol and TDI engines, the new Sport specification transforms the look of the A2, and sharpens its already much praised handling even further. 
The A2 Sport is lowered by sports suspension tuned by Audi bespoke vehicle subsidiary quattro GmbH, and rides on 17-inch, nine-spoke alloy wheels with 205/40 ZR 17 tyres, for maximum visual impact. 
The more sporting theme is continued in the cabin by front sports seats with electric lumbar support, upholstered in Jacquard Satin fabric, plus a three-spoke, leather-rimmed steering wheel and leather trimming for the hand brake cover and gear lever gaiter. A Driver's Information System (DIS), giving useful information on fuel consumption and potential driving range, is also part of the package. 
...
http://www.germancarfans.com/n...2.003


Story about 90hp TDI:

_Quote »_
New Audi A2 1.4 TDI with 90 bhp Engine
Text and photos courtesy Audi AG
11-10-2003

New Audi A2 1.4 TDI with 90 bhp Engine
Related content:
“Audi A2“ search – 27 results
Audi A2 Photo Album – 34 Photos
Audi A2 Colour Storm Photo Album – 16 Photos
A light athlete with a high-tech heart
The Audi A2 1.4 TDI with 55 kW (75 bhp) engine will soon have a big brother: starting in November 2003, an uprated version of the A2 with a 66 kW (90 bhp) engine will join the programme, enlarging it to five engine versions in all. With a maximum torque of 230 Nm between 1900 and 2200 rpm, this compact three-cylinder unit accelerates the A2, a true ‘light athlete’ with an aluminium body, in 10.9 seconds from 0 to 100 km/h. This new top version in the Audi A2 model line has a top speed of 188 km/h and complies with the tough European EU4 exhaust emission limits. 

...
http://www.germancarfans.com/n...0.001


Great article on Audi's low-weight construction methods:
http://www.germancarfans.com/n....html

90hp TDI specs:

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_Modified by RogueTDI at 12:15 AM 12-7-2004_


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## vlad-e (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*

I was just about to say Prius too.


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## J-Tim (May 26, 2000)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*

It's all nice and dandy. There is one "but" though. It's called a full aluminium body. I can't possibly imagine the insurance premiums one would have to pay to get that thing running in US/Canada or Australia.
When you about cars that cost close to 100k that have aluminium bodies it doesn't really matter, because if you can afford such a car, the insurance isn't really a factor. However if it is a car with a price in low-mid 20s, with the insurance premiums of a luxo barge, things don't seem as bright anymore.
Sorry to sound pessimistic, but that's a reality.


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## Saintor (Dec 28, 2003)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*

Problem is the same; it looks like a penalty box to me for a high price.
I never drove one. But I saw some Audi A2/MB A-Class in Europe and while they are cute, I can't see them as a 'real' driver's car (diesel cars neither). To each his own priorities


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## lonewolf (May 18, 2000)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*

While this car is a fantastic representation of Audi's capabilities, unfortunately it is going to get canned in the next year or two and I believe no revised versions are planned. The key problem was the higher cost due to AL use. A trendsetter nevertheless. Maybe Audi will use the expertise in someother lower models.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RogueTDI (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (J-Tim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *J-Tim* »_It's all nice and dandy. There is one "but" though. It's called a full aluminium body. I can't possibly imagine the insurance premiums one would have to pay to get that thing running in US/Canada or Australia.
When you about cars that cost close to 100k that have aluminium bodies it doesn't really matter, because if you can afford such a car, the insurance isn't really a factor. However if it is a car with a price in low-mid 20s, with the insurance premiums of a luxo barge, things don't seem as bright anymore.
Sorry to sound pessimistic, but that's a reality.

Because of body damage repair costs? I don't think this car is that expensive to start with. Couldnt perhaps panels simply be replaced? Is it tough to repair permanent panel areas because they are aluminum (bondo, etc)? What other concern is there?


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## PhilHVW (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*

I remember hearing that it was kind of expensive compared to its minicar competition. From a quick search, it seems you can buy all kinds of Civics in the UK for the same money, which are bigger and quicker than the A2.


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## RogueTDI (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (lonewolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lonewolf* »_While this car is a fantastic representation of Audi's capabilities, unfortunately it is going to get canned in the next year or two and I believe no revised versions are planned. The key problem was the higher cost due to AL use. A trendsetter nevertheless. Maybe Audi will use the expertise in someother lower models.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Really??








Are you sure about that? I think this car is great - it's aerodynamic teardrop shape and TDI option offers better-than-hybrid mileage, while still giving good acceleration. 
If people are willing to spend a few thousand more for hybrid, why not for an all aluminum car?? Especially since this actually gives advertised 65mpg freeway, 53mpg avg. For the performance and features, I'd consider paying up to $2-3k more for that. It would pay back fairly quickly - 67kmi for $3k, 45kmi for $2k, at $2/gal.



_Modified by RogueTDI at 6:49 AM 12-7-2004_


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## RogueTDI (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (Saintor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Saintor* »_Problem is the same; it looks like a penalty box to me for a high price.
I never drove one. But I saw some Audi A2/MB A-Class in Europe and while they are cute, I can't see them as a 'real' driver's car (diesel cars neither). To each his own priorities

Why would it not be as much a drivers car as the MkI GTI/Golf?? It has about the same profile/dimension as a MkI Rabbit/Golf. Width, length, track and wheelbase are nearly identical. Weight is about the same. However, I'm sure the interior space is improved of course, which is great.


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## Saintor (Dec 28, 2003)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RogueTDI* »_Why would it not be as much a drivers car as the MkI GTI/Golf?? It has about the same profile/dimension as a MkI Rabbit/Golf. Width, length, track and wheelbase are nearly identical. Weight is about the same. However, I'm sure the interior space is improved of course, which is great.

True, but height and center of gravity seem much like a micro-van, not an hot hatchback.


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## RogueTDI (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (Saintor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Saintor* »_
True, but height and center of gravity seem much like a micro-van, not an hot hatchback. 


Yes, seems that way, but height is only a bit taller: 1410mm for my 1981 Rabbit (Haynes) vs 1553mm for the A2 - thats only about 5 inches taller, and that is mostly in the bulbous roofline (for headroom), which probably won't affect handling much at all. All the reviews claim it is a very nimble car. 
Is there any reason to doubt that all-aluminum construction will one day become more and more prevalent?? Surely, rising fuel costs would probably help. Plus, I'm sure a mix of Al/steel could still pull off some good economy and fairly low weight.
I reaaally hope they don't discontinue this.










_Modified by RogueTDI at 6:08 AM 12-5-2004_


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## Süsser Tod (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*

Rogue, I'm quite used to this mini-mini-minivan vehicles. The A2 is based of the 9n platform (Polo), wish is in fact, closer to a MK2.

However, let me tell you something, no one is going to confuse an A2 with an MK1, they look like minivans, not like driver cars. And when you get close to them, they keep looking like minivans, really small ones, but minivans.
Everything you said was true, they have quite a bit of interior space, are very practical, etc, etc, etc. But they look like minivans.

Oh, and are more expensive than the cars they are based from. So taking that they are more expensive, have little bit more interior space, and look like minivans...

I would take the real Polo anyday.


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## RogueTDI (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (kerridwen)*

They look like minivans because of aerodynamic and practical considerations (interior/cargo space) - all cars in the future will look more and more like the Prius and A2 because they are the most efficient shape. Sucks, but true.
So for that reason I'm past the crappy "minivan" look. If you can tell me why/how that makes this NOT a "driver's car" please do. 



_Modified by RogueTDI at 11:52 PM 12-6-2004_


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## Mikedav (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (PhilHVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhilHVW* »_From a quick search, it seems you can buy all kinds of Civics in the UK for the same money, which are bigger and quicker than the A2.

Hondas dont sell here in the numbers they do over there. The Civic is the sort of car our grandad drives over here, except the Type R of course. A more obvious substitute would be an A Class, other than that it has no real rivals; 'real' cars are as you say available for less money. £17k ish is a lot of money. Its also top heavy and only has small engines (which you cant see - under the hood is just an access flap for water and oil) and its very top heavy. Its a premium city car, not a hot hatch.
You don't see many A2s on the road, though there is one near me with RS4 rims that looks quite sm art. The oneproblem with them as has been said is they are baby minivans - not pretty and not sporty, more Smart Car than MK1. And when the windshield wipers are on it rocks side to side!


_Modified by Mikedav at 4:54 PM 12-5-2004_


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## Sir Biggz (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*

My Uncle in Scotland has one, but never drives it.


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## eurotrash_pd (May 30, 2002)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (vlad-e)*


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## GS Audio (Oct 17, 2001)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*

I'd be down to pick one up as a daily. That thing looks like a lot of fun! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vwsteve (Jul 26, 2000)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (GS Audio)*

Aztecish profile.....anyone else have that come to mind.


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## VWnewbie (May 8, 1999)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (vwsteve)*

I think it looks cool and I would drive one as a commuter, but it's far from being a fun car to drive.
In fact, in all of the magazine articles I've read on the car (the British magazines) the handling has been described as uninspired at best and bad at worst. Even if its specs may be close to another car that is fun, it's all about tuning and weight distribution and this car just doesn't have it. 
I wish I hadn't packed all of my magazines in boxes and put them in storage, or I could quote some actual reviews. Just don't get your hopes up.


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## LittleRed2.0 (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (Mikedav)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mikedav* »_
And when the windshield wipers are on it rocks side to side!


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## winkosmosis (Mar 21, 2004)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (LittleRed2.0)*

I think that minivan shape BELONGS on an economy car. I don't see why you would build a small car, with front wheel drive, small wheels, and light weight, and then plop a body with a traditional sedan profile on it. It just doesn't make sense to maximize efficiency everywhere but the shape. 
If I were to buy a car like this it had better:
1) Get the best possible highway mileage. (minivan/supercar wedge shape)
2) Carry as much cargo as will fit in its measurements, especially a bike. (hatchback)
If I want to look cab-rearward sleek I'll drive around in my 240sx. 


_Modified by winkosmosis at 1:26 PM 12-5-2004_


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## ASurroca (Sep 3, 2001)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (winkosmosis)*

I definitely would kill for this car if it were available over here. High-tech TDI, small and economical, more atractive green-eono-car shape than the new Prius, and extremely practical... oh, and it has the Audi badge to boot. For me and what I want in a car (some passenger and cargo hauling capability, small and economical, green, unique, etc), the Audi A2 has always been perfect. I guess I had to "settle" on a Beetle TDI. Not that I'm unhappy with that choice


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## SteveMKIIDub (Nov 6, 2003)

I'd hit it up long before a hybrid.. 
How much would it cost though?
I'm not digging the high mini-minivan look though, but still an awesome vehicle.


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## krzysztof (Jul 9, 1999)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*

My favorite A2 glamor shot:


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## rstefdc (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*

go for the prius....
much more room, and such







electric-driving shock!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RogueTDI (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (Mikedav)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwsteve* »_
Aztecish profile.....anyone else have that come to mind.

Older Honda Civics (the hatches - DX??) had that shape. The Prius has it. Its about aerodynamiics. I don't think it looks like the Asstek.


_Quote, originally posted by *Mikedav* »_
Hondas dont sell here in the numbers they do over there. The Civic is the sort of car our grandad drives over here, except the Type R of course. A more obvious substitute would be an A Class, other than that it has no real rivals; 'real' cars are as you say available for less money. £17k ish is a lot of money. Its also top heavy and only has small engines (which you cant see - under the hood is just an access flap for water and oil) and its very top heavy. Its a premium city car, not a hot hatch.
You don't see many A2s on the road, though there is one near me with RS4 rims that looks quite sm art. The oneproblem with them as has been said is they are baby minivans - not pretty and not sporty, more Smart Car than MK1. And when the windshield wipers are on it rocks side to side!

_Modified by Mikedav at 4:54 PM 12-5-2004_

"And when the windshield wipers are on it rocks side to side!"
I doubt that. At most, you might feel the car shimmy a little, I might imagine. But "rock?" I doubt that.
I do imagine though that it might be a bit top heavy. However, not that much, and looks can be very deceiving - could just look tall, but in fact have a similar COG to a Golf. Perhaps a suspension tuning could really help? Surely, a bit of redesign from Audi could help - slightly wider track?
Btw, I'm sure the hood can be raised - the access flap is just for ease of maintenance - checking oil and washer fluid and topping them up.

A base 1.4L TDI 75hp (the pulldown listed suggested 90hp?







) is about £13.7k out the door on the audi.co.uk site. I'd imagine a 90hp version, if available, wouldnt be much more, or would include as standard normally optional items. Well-equipped (avoiding unnecessary expensive/vain features) raises price to about £21k (note the TV/Nav/Electronics adds over 3k). And you really get a lot I must say - there's little left to want. Note, according to a yahoo exchange rate calculator (http://finance.yahoo.com/currency?u), currently 1 GBP = 1.94 USD, with an average of around 1.83 over the past weeks.







Does that sound right?







Perhaps it's just a standard of living issue?
Here's the base loadout:
A2 
8Z0044\0\GPH5PH5\MRAO8UD Engine 1.4 TDI 75 PS 5 speed 12,995.00 
F14 A2A2 Exterior colour Brilliant Black 0.00 
MVOSQ1A Seats: Standard seat 
MSIBN0G Upholstery: Sirrus cloth 
F56 YA Seats black, Dashboard black-black, Carpet black, Headliner light grey 

Standard equipment 
Exterior: 
Colour keyed door mirrors and handles 
halogen headlight for driving on the left 
Electrically operated door mirrors 
Heat insulating tinted glass 
Wheels/Tyres: 
Space-saver spare wheel 
5.5J x 15 lightweight forged aluminium alloy wheels 
Interior: 
Transponder immobiliser 
ashtray at front and cigarette lighter 
Can holder in dashboard 
dipping breakaway inside rear view mirror 
First aid kit 
Rev counter 
Luggage compartment cover 
plastic hand brake lever handle 
Electric windows front 
vanity mirror right 
Steering wheels: 
plastic gearshift knob/handle 
steering wheel, 4-spoke, foam-padded 
Seats: 
child seat anchor for child seat system ISOFIX 
Height adjustable front seats 
Front and rear head restraints 
Individual folding and removable rear seats (x 2) 
standard seats 
Cirrus cloth upholstery 
Safety/Technology: 
Driver and front passenger airbag 
fuel tank 
Front side airbags 
Audio/Communication: 
front and rear speakers 
Other standard equipment: 
Electronic climate control 
automatic air conditioning with sun sensor 
disc brakes, front 
luggage compartment floor covering 
outer left rear view mirror: convex 
outer right rear view mirror: non-spherical, large viewing field 
Power steering 
Concert II radio 
Remote control central locking (radio wave) 
rear heating duct 
tires 175/60 R 15 T 
transit coating (type 2) 
here's the well-equipped version (pretty much maxed out) with additional features and prices:
A2 
8Z0044\0\GPH5PH5\MRAO8UD Engine 1.4 TDI 75 PS 5 speed 12,995.00 
F14 A2A2 Exterior colour Brilliant Black 0.00 
MVOSQ1A Seats: Standard seat 
MSIBN0G Upholstery: Sirrus cloth 
F56 YA Seats black, Dashboard black-black, Carpet black, Headliner light grey 

Optional equipment 
Interior: 
MLBH3GE Luggage compartment floor 105.00 (removable floor for trunk?)
GPMFPMF Space-Floor-Box storage system 115.00 
GPKGPKG Load safety net 70.00 
GPFUPFU Front and rear floor mats 50.00 
MIRS4L6 Automatic dipping rear view mirror 125.00 
MFEH4R4 Electric rear windows 205.00 
Exterior: 
MNES8WB Front fog lights 125.00 
MEPH7X1 Acoustic parking system - rear only 350.00 (no front system available)
GPSGPSG Open-Sky© system 845.00 (sunroof)
MSWR8X1 Headlight washers 180.00 
Audio/Communication: 
MTVEQV1 TV and Teletext function 705.00 
GPNDPND Satellite navigation system Plus 2,175.00 
MLSE8RY BOSE sound system 450.00 
MVTV9ZF GSM mobile telephone preparation 360.00 
Safety/Technology: 
MSAB4X3 SIDEGUARD 360.00 (side airbag curtain, front&rear)
MGRA8T2 Cruise control 298.00 (







- outrageous)
Seats: 
GPSVPSV Heated front seats 300.00 
Equipment packages: 
GPW1PW1 Winter Pack 105.00 (heated side mirrors with washers)
Wheels/Tyres: 
MREIH0M 175/60 R15V tyres 0.00 
Steering wheels: 
GP21P21 4-spoke leather multi-function type steering wheel 330.00 (the best - no multifunction 3 spoke)


Total price: GBP 20,248.00 

OTR Price: GBP 20,948.00 



_Modified by RogueTDI at 6:52 AM 12-7-2004_


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (J-Tim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *J-Tim* »_It's all nice and dandy. There is one "but" though. It's called a full aluminium body. I can't possibly imagine the insurance premiums one would have to pay to get that thing running in US/Canada or Australia.
When you about cars that cost close to 100k that have aluminium bodies it doesn't really matter, because if you can afford such a car, the insurance isn't really a factor. However if it is a car with a price in low-mid 20s, with the insurance premiums of a luxo barge, things don't seem as bright anymore.
Sorry to sound pessimistic, but that's a reality.

What does the Insight cost to insure? Its alumiunium too and costs about the same as the A2.


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## RogueTDI (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (Hajduk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hajduk* »_
What does the Insight cost to insure? Its alumiunium too and costs about the same as the A2.

Good questions. 
In Germany, where it seems cars are a bit more expensive (??), the top-line A2 TDI is a bit under 20k Euros (19.6k) - a bit over $20k in US dollars. I'd be happy to pay that for the 1.4L TDI A2, 90hp/170blft, plus Audi technology, design and amenities. 


_Modified by RogueTDI at 6:51 AM 12-7-2004_


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## AZGolf (Jun 6, 2000)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (Hajduk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hajduk* »_What does the Insight cost to insure? Its alumiunium too and costs about the same as the A2.

You could try calling your insurance agent in the morning to compare. Or better still, tell them you're considering two cars - a new 4-cyl Accord and a new Insight. Both are around the same retail value and both are plain Jane Hondas, so it would be a good comparison.


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## RogueTDI (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (AZGolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AZGolf* »_
You could try calling your insurance agent in the morning to compare. Or better still, tell them you're considering two cars - a new 4-cyl Accord and a new Insight. Both are around the same retail value and both are plain Jane Hondas, so it would be a good comparison.

I think the idea is to evaluate the cost of the Aluminum, right??
The differences between Accord and Insight might be too great - many other factors could affect the rate quote.


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## AZGolf (Jun 6, 2000)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*

Well there's no other non-sports car 2-seaters around $20k, so that's about as close as you'll get. Insurance is by dollar value and risk assessment anyway, and both have the same total replacement value if they were stolen and never recovered the day after you bought them. Differences would then only come down to cost on average rate of theft and cost of repairing non-total collisions.


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## RogueTDI (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (AZGolf)*

The A2 is a 4/5 seater, so not sure how that relates to the 2 seater Insight.


_Modified by RogueTDI at 6:53 AM 12-7-2004_


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## quid (May 19, 2004)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*

im in love with elisha buthbert and i cant have her... welcome to the club


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## Mikedav (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RogueTDI* »_
Perhaps a suspension tuning could really help? Surely, a bit of redesign from Audi could help - slightly wider track?
Btw, I'm sure the hood can be raised - the access flap is just for ease of maintenance - checking oil and washer fluid and topping them up.

_Modified by RogueTDI at 7:14 PM 12-5-2004_

Yeah I would have thout so - all cars can be tweaked after all. You may be interested to know I used to see a HRD A2 driving around Ottawa, ON with Canadian plates - I think the gobernment was evaluating them? Saw a RHD VW Sharan too.
But if you take a look at these figures its not the nippy car you might be hoping for:

1.4 73BHP 0-60: 11.6 
1.4 TDI 73BHP 0-60: 11.9 
1.6 FSI 108BHP 0-60: 9.5 
Drop a 1.8T in there.....
On further inspection you are right about the engine access

























_Modified by Mikedav at 10:01 AM 12-6-2004_


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## RogueTDI (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (Mikedav)*

Well, they offer a 1.4L 90hp/170lbft TDI in Germany. 0-62 in 10.9, so 0-60 in about 10.7 or so? That's fine with me. As long as the handling isnt too inherently bad. This wouldnt be a hardcore sports/hot hatch - I'd just want it to be reasonably fun to drive, but it will be mostly a daily driver. I really enjoy driving my 98 TDI MkIII Jetta, 2500lbs, ~90hp and 150lbft. I get about 50mpg highway. This A2 has more power and weighs several hundred lbs less, and gets 65+mpg on the highway, thanks to reduced wieght and better aero. I cannot believe the center of gravity is really that much higher/worse than a Golf or Jetta.
So the question remains, what about insurance costs? Will the aluminum really add that much? Only to body damage premiums I presume.
Frankly, as for the added cost of aluminum, I'd guess its worth it, considering this basically gives better overall performance than a Prius, and would cost less, or at least less of a premium. Essentially, rather than hybrid, they just went with light-weight chassis materials. Regardless of the method, the results are the same - decent performance and great mileage in a nice, practical, modern package. And remember, the 53mpg average mileage is to be truly expected, where most Prius drivers actually get far less than the EPA's 55mpg claim, down more in the mid-40mpg range. Also, I'd bet they could squeeze a bit more power out of the TDI. And there's always chip tuning - at least another 10hp there.



_Modified by RogueTDI at 12:03 AM 12-7-2004_


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## whatever7 (Apr 13, 2002)

A2 =


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## RogueTDI (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: (whatever7)*

Seriously, forget the looks. First, theyre not that bad. Second, it really is the shape of things to come, that bloated, "minivan" kind of look. It's very efficient, for aerodynamics and interior space.
If I were in the market for a small hatchback type vehicle, this would be it, depending on price. I'd almost certainly take this over a Golf V.
I found this interesting review of the 1.6 FSI Sport:

_Quote »_
A cracking little warm hatch 
What things have gone wrong with the car? 
Nothing. 
General comments? 
Car has the S-Line Plus package, this means 1/2 leather sports seats, uprated suspension, 17 inch alloys, body-kit, all black interior, etc. 
The FSI has a larger boot spoiler than the other A2s, and slightly wider arches (not that you can tell). 
This is a great little warm hatch, at home in the city and good on the Autobahn. 
The interior is surprisingly spacious despite the size of the car. The front passenger area is noticeably roomier than an A3 (I am 6'4" and a tight fit in an S3). The quality of the fit and finish is also of the high standard one expects in an Audi. 
The interior is like that of a premium car, rather than the budget feel found in most cars of this size (especially the Mini which we considered until we sat in it – nice design, but cheap plastic finish). 
The load carrying has some neat tricks too. The rear backrest can be put into a totally upright position, giving a square boot (more useful than it first sounds) at the expense of some comfort. The rear seats can also be folded or removed. A Meriva it isn’t, but still very flexible. 
The sports seats are excellent; Firm, comfortable and supportive. I have yet to experience any discomfort and have made several long (3+) hour trips. We test drove a standard FSI and found the seats a bit flat (but comfortable). 
Heated seats and climate control work well and are very useful down here in Munich. 
Car looks good in dark metallic blue (Audi Cobalt blue), with the S-line kit and big alloys. 
Looks like a baby Audi should, cute, but tough! 
Suspension is very firm, and although well damped the ride can be a bit bumpy. The trade off being that the car corners brilliantly (like a go-kart to use the cliche). Typical sports suspension in other words. The wide tyres (P-Zero Neros) and the light weight mean that it can tramline a bit in the wet, but the ultimate grip is high. 
Traction and stability control work well if you push it too far. 
The standard FSI has much more forgiving suspension, but naturally loses the chuckable edge. 
The FSI engine takes a bit of getting used to as its power delivery is non-linear with a step at around 3000 rpm (when the FSI switches back to 'normal' mode). Pootle around town at around 2000 rpm and it is fine, and very economical (FSI mode). Put your foot down at this engine speed and the engine will baulk and then fire the car forward like a rocket (similar to an older turbo diesel at low revs). This is very uncomfortable and disconcerting for driver and passengers - not to mention dangerous. However, I don’t believe this is a fault (per se), but a result of the FSI system. 
The engine management switches between FSI and normal modes as it sees fit, but with a fixed step at 3000 rpm (if I have read the paperwork correctly). If you want to use the power then you need to get the engine spinning first, this normally means dropping 2 gears or feeding in more revs than you would expect at launch. 
Driven hard (like we used to do when hot hatches only had 1.3 or 1.6 litre engines) the A2 FSI is a usefully quick little car and great fun (it has a lovely rorty exhaust note). The downside is that it is a bit on or off. If you want smooth, usable (but lukewarm), performance (and even better fuel economy) buy the 1.4TDI. 
I often find myself blasting out of a corner (or away from the lights) and then short shifting from 2nd to 5th to cruise along at the speed limit in town (or 3rd to 5th from an Autobahn slip-road). The FSI needs you to rethink your driving style to get the best out of it (unless you are the sort who thrashes cars anyway!). 
A minor annoyance is that he needs feeding 98roz fuel (i.e. Premium Unleaded or Super Plus) and this pushes up the running cost slightly. You can get away with 95roz (Super Unleaded) but the economy and performance suffer. Normal unleaded is for dire emergencies only! Even driven quite hard I still get almost 35-40 mpg, much more if driven conservatively. 
I would recommend test driving a 1.4TDI and an FSI, to see if the performance is worth the trade with ease of driving. For most people I suspect it won’t be worth it, and a Mini Cooper ultimately drives better. 
However, the FSI is still a great little car and a thing of quality, it is also something a little different from all the Minis here in Munich! 
In summary, I love my A2. It looks great and goes well too (although another 50ps wouldn’t go amiss). Ride and handling are very sporty, but that is what I got the S-line package for. It is special enough that after 6 months of ownership I still smile when I come out to the car in the morning, and sneak a last look when I leave it parked up and walk away in the evening. 
A right little Bobby Dazzler to quote a friend…..! 
http://www.carsurvey.org/review_67116.html





_Modified by RogueTDI at 6:47 AM 12-6-2004_


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## RogueTDI (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: (RogueTDI)*

Where's the love for this wonderful little marvel??


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## RzinDubs (Apr 7, 2003)

*Re: (RogueTDI)*

It's cool http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RogueTDI (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: (RzinDubs)*

Bump for the morning crowd.


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## phlipski (Aug 19, 2004)

*Re: Audi A2 - I think I'm falling in love with this car I can't even have... (RogueTDI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RogueTDI* »_Because of body damage repair costs? I don't think this car is that expensive to start with. Couldnt perhaps panels simply be replaced? Is it tough to repair permanent panel areas because they are aluminum (bondo, etc)? What other concern is there?

I remember reading that the A8 aluminum space frame could only be repaired at like 4-8 special shops around the country if wrecked. I'm not sure if this is due to the fact that these aluminum bodied cars seem to make more use of the skin as a load bearing structure than a steel car (and so much more care needs to be taken in repairing a critical load bearing area), or if the aluminum really is that much more difficult to work with.
-John


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