# BG Induction Service Pt. 2 - Carbon Deposit Cleaning in Action



## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

Please check out part two of my experience with the BG Vehicle Induction Service. I think if used at proper intervals this system is an effective treatment for carbon deposits for which our engine is known. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JvCtCQM2zM&feature=youtu.be


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Where did you get the Inject-A-Flush apparatus? I have been looking on eBay for one to come up. Also what BG product did you use? ISC or the regular intake cleaner? 

I have a bore scope too and I built my own for use with seafoam aerosol out of a rubber stopper and the exotic application straw, The rubber stopper fits in the IAT sensor hole and the straw atomizes the seafoam. I think this should work better than the other methods. I wanted to compare the BG service to the seafoam.


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

I bought the system from a BG distributor in CT. I used the Air Intake System Cleaner (Part #206). After reading their website I might have to try the ISC and report back. 

I've used Seafoam (not the aerosol) and while it does give a great smoke show, my vote is for the BG products. You're delivering the chemicals at 60+ PSI and with their nozzle it should be making a fairly fine mist as opposed to droplets. **I saw your edit, I think the extra pressure takes the atomization up a level** 

How long is the aerosol Seafoam process?


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I am just planning to perform this, Monday or Tuesday next week I should have pics/results. I guess it will take as long as the BG process. I think the seafoam aerosol will be more effective than sucking the liquid through a straw, the spray pattern should get every valve. I don't know how well my bore scope will work but I hope to grab shots of all the valves. 

I like the BG method, Ive seen some great things. The nozzle and additional pressure makes it the better delivery system vs my ghetto sprayer or any other method really. I have been trying to find a BG system for a while.


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

Good luck with it! I look forward to seeing some pictures. I cheaped out on the camera, the resolution was only 640x480, so hopefully you're able to pick up more detail. 

Your method is better than the way I learned to do Seafoam: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmMvi7o6Ja4 

The ideal setup would be a nozzle system that splayed out and delivered the spray to each cylinder, but I don't think they've invented that yet.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I think we have the same crappy bore scope, mine is a direct from china 640x480 USB one with 4 leds. 

Sea-foam has a pic of their exotic application straw on their site. I tested it out and their pic does not do justice to how well it completely "fogs" an area. It has four jets in the sides of the straw and the end is sealed shut. 

https://www.seafoamsales.com/how-to-use-sea-foam-spray.html 

I think the ports will suck plenty of it down. Someone else attempeted something similar but used Seafoam deepreep lubricant by mistake, they had crummy results. There is enough room to drill two holes for straws in the rubber stopper that fits the IAT hole, but I think one straw is plenty. I don't see it performing as well as the BG product but I don't think either will be able to eat away the crusted on buildup. 

I suspect that frequent cleanings (~10K miles) are the only thing that will cure this. I haven had a look at my valves yet. 50K with the dealership changing the oil every 5K.


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

Yep got the same exact one. You'll find that if you rip off the plastic lens cover the picture is clearer and there's less glare from the LEDs, but you'll lose its waterproof-ness, not that that is an issue for this project. 

I think you're right, the turbulence in the manifold should mix things up pretty good. 

I like how you're able to use the IAT hole. Someone mentioned that to me before but the hole is too small. 










I do like how the placement of the BG system allows me to clean the throttle body as well. 

Keep me posted!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

BCinco said:


> Yep got the same exact one. You'll find that if you rip off the plastic lens cover the picture is clearer and there's less glare from the LEDs, but you'll lose its waterproof-ness, not that that is an issue for this project.
> 
> I think you're right, the turbulence in the manifold should mix things up pretty good.
> 
> ...


 Thats where most have done carbon building clean up, i say some custom making apparatus should gain you the access with that nozzle.


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

You're saying something that will seal the nozzle to the port? This would be great so I wouldn't have to undo the pipe leading to the throttle body. It's a bit of a squeeze.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

My ghetto injector apparatus:


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

Thanks for the videos! I've been a big fan of BG for 20+ years. 

Can you tell me which borescope you bought? I've been wanting to try a cheapo from amazon/ebay, but would prefer a recommendation. The quality of yours looks good, so I'd like to grab the same one.


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

You're welcome, I've been impressed thus far as well. The rep I've worked with is great and so is their office staff. 

Here's a link to the borescope I picked up. It's a simple webcam on a USB cable. They jacked up their price , I paid $29. I recommended before taking off the plastic lens as it reduces glare from the LEDs. 

http://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-Sn...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1338763211&sr=1-1


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> My ghetto injector apparatus:


 Hey if it makes a good seal I think you'll be A-OK.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Thats the same one I got, all the ones on ebay are pretty much the same, some have different length cables (5/7/10/15M). I got one with a 15M cable so I can keep my laptop on the stand in the garage. 

The rubber is pliable enough to really jam in the hole and seal it pretty well. Ill try it Monday or Tuesday. Was there much buildup on the TB plate? That seems to be a drawback of my method.


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

That was the one thing I did not check, but staulkor found his to be spotless on the one side: 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4611119


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

Look what just arrived!









BG ISC® Induction System Cleaner™ will quickly and safely clean fuel injectors and remove hard, baked-on carbon deposits from intake ports, intake valves and combustion chamber. BG ISC® will not harm gaskets, seals, hoses or any component in the fuel system if recommended cleaning procedure is followed. Catalytic converter and oxygen sensor safe.
http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html

If you're 12K miles away from your last thorough valve cleaning consider getting the BG Induction Service. I'll 'scope your vehicle for free and run the system twice for $100. That's a 48% discount from the dealer!


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I'm really interested in seeing what ISC can do to the hard carbon buildup. I think any product that has a bunch of naphtha can eat the soft dark black buildup.

So I scoped my car today, I could only get to cyl 2 & 3 through the IAT sensor hole. There was some light black goo in the upper portion of the intake around the flapper. The flappers themselves were very clean. Once into the ports near the valves it was surprisingly clean, I could see the metal on the walls and the valves had some grey baked on buildup. Cyl 2 had a little more buildup than 3.

 5K oil changes, no meth, no catch can, factory PCV, never cleaned before. I dunno why its so clean, I really expected some serious buildup.

I want to take the lens cover off the scope as suggested and get some better pics before I clean it. The pics are pretty lousy, I think I got two usable shots. The IAT hole is wicked easy to get to.


















I tested out the spray method but didn't actually spray any cleaner. The rubber plug I used was a bit too small so I wrapped a little electrical tape around the end. The engine vacuum kept it sealed against the port, I could move the straw in and out of the hole I drilled into the plug to keep the mist spraying as far from the ports as possible.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

I used to use a rubber hose with a basketball air needle... inject water, acetone, or ATF or something and all was well.


BEST thing ive seen though... meth/water injection... a nice valve bath daily. :thumbup:


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

Can you explain naphtha to me? Chemistry wasn't my strong point.

I could only get to cylinder 2 and 3 as well. I think I might try to find some aluminum or copper wire of some sort and wrap it around the wire. Hopefully I can get a 90 degree bend and snake around to cyl. 1 and one. In a writeup I saw the cylinders get worse going from left to right. 

You just might be very, very lucky. I look forward to seeing how you faired. This guy contacted me about doing the cleaning. I'll let you know how the ISC works, if the results are good NH isn't too far.


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

Krieger said:


> I used to use a rubber hose with a basketball air needle... inject water, acetone, or ATF or something and all was well.
> 
> 
> BEST thing ive seen though... meth/water injection... a nice valve bath daily. :thumbup:


I did the exact same thing. Did you take before and after pictures?

staulkor on here used meth injection and it has shown to slow build up. It's definitely something I'm looking in to.


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## jpawl (Apr 12, 2000)

Watching this....IM out too.


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

BCinco said:


> The ideal setup would be a nozzle system that splayed out and delivered the spray to each cylinder, but I don't think they've invented that yet.


Every time I see a meth setup with spray nozzles tapped into the intake manifold, I think it would be the perfect solution to our valve issue. Inject BG every so often and life would be good.

I'd love for someone clever to come up with a cost effective DIY rig for BG port injection.


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

Like something from these guys, but less expensive!

http://uspmotorsports.com/product_info.php?products_id=820


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

why inject BG when you could inject water and alcohol and scrub the valves that way? Steam cleaning them is sooooooo much easier than a chemical bath... the water and alcohol super cool your charge air and the water expands to 3x the volume and pressure when it phase changes to steam... when your piston has to compress it all, on top of the air/fuel charge, your in cylinder pressures jump (good thing), but your in intake, in cylinder and exhaust temps all go down (great!). Think of the mechanics of a steam motor. :beer:

I HAVE to wash my car every week or the back gets covered in what looks like chunks of dirt and carbon build up, especially around my exhaust tips... its not just the dark stains left over from running rich or anything, its hard chunks of crap that have been flying out of my motor.

my stuff costs me less than $3 a gallon to boot!


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

I think the concept is great. If money were no object I'd get the setup in a heartbeat. The combination of the two systems *should* have a compounding effect. However, staulkor ran meth injection for 25K and this is what he had on his valves.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4611119


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## sirswank (Mar 17, 2003)

any pics from the b-scope and where you went in to check out things?


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

I used the IAT port on the front of the engine. 

The before shots start at 1:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biM5-GW4CLQ&feature=relmfu


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

look in the TSI/TFSI section and find VirtualHeratic's pics of his valves with meth and a VTA PCV setup.

if your running a normal pcv setup, you will have dirty valves, even with a recirc catch can setup... VTA or live with the fact that ever 2-4 years, you have to scrub those valves.


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

I saw his pictures, pretty impressive for 105K, but considering it's a TSI I'm not surprised. FSI engines, like mine are known to be much more susceptible to carbon buildup.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

BCinco said:


> I saw his pictures, pretty impressive for 105K, but considering it's a TSI I'm not surprised. FSI engines, like mine are known to be much more susceptible to carbon buildup.


by whom???

are the valves different? valve seals? higher head and crankcase pressures? is the valve coating not the same?

:sly: :facepalm:

its the oil type and additives, mixed with our PCV system and valve seepage. its an unholy trifecta...


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

I honestly don't know the mechanics behind it, but they're different engines. It's not an apples to apples comparison. If I could I'd swap out my FSI for a TSI.


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> I'm really interested in seeing what ISC can do to the hard carbon buildup. I think any product that has a bunch of naphtha can eat the soft dark black buildup.
> 
> So I scoped my car today, I could only get to cyl 2 & 3 through the IAT sensor hole. There was some light black goo in the upper portion of the intake around the flapper. The flappers themselves were very clean. Once into the ports near the valves it was surprisingly clean, I could see the metal on the walls and the valves had some grey baked on buildup. Cyl 2 had a little more buildup than 3.
> 
> ...




Any updates?

I used the ISC instead of the Air Intake Cleaner. I scoped the vehicle, but didn't take any pictures. The results were great, but the same so I'm going to be using the AIC again. There were a lot of misfires and no smoke. Thanks you to Burton for coming down and getting the service done.


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

So I have a theory. 

staulkor found cylinder 4 to be the worst for carbon buildup, the one all the way to the right. 

I think the culprit is shown in the picture below. Most of the recirculated gasses would hit cylinder 4 first. 









So when people use seafoam, BG products, etc. they're primarily hitting cylinders 2 and 3. If we used this port as well I think we'd have much better results.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I got some additional shots but was unable to remove the clear lens cover from my borescope for clear pics. I have a varnish on the walls of the intake similar to staulkor's photos. 

I am waiting for new spark plugs and some other maintenance items to show up prior to cleaning out the intake. I also want to try the 3M induction cleaner product as well to see if it can get the baked on stuff that I suspect the seafoam wont.


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

Hey guys, heads up...3M is running a $10 mail in rebate on the 08963 Fuel System Tune-Up Kit through 10/2/12. I grabbed one locally at AutoZone, but I see it's available at Amazon through 7/31/12 too. BG is my preferred brand, but this kit is the only way I have to get something atomized directly into the intake tract. The rebate is limited to one per household, but hey, $10 is $10, right?

Edit: Clarified dates - the two stores are running the promotion for different lengths of time.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Has anyone tried the 3M system and have any proof of results? Doesn't cost much. I realize it's not going to clean everything off but for what it costs and how easy it is, if it got rid of 20% I would probably do it. 

If I have occasional misfires and it gets rid of them and I had to do this once a year that would be ok.

3M is a respected brand.


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## bryanviper (Nov 14, 2011)

BCinco said:


> So I have a theory.
> 
> staulkor found cylinder 4 to be the worst for carbon buildup, the one all the way to the right.
> 
> ...


Anybody end up trying to inject seafoam from that other port that goes to the pvc?
Results?


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

If you have the stock PCV setup and unhook that hose what happens? I feel like the engine would putter out, I know it does when I have the IAT sensor open. 

In other news I'm working with a guy who sets up spray booths for all sorts of applications. We're coming up with a dual nozzle system that feeds in before the throttle body AND that side port.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Even if you inject the cleaner into the IAT and PCV port you still arent going to get equal distribution.
Only way you are going to get equal distribution to all 4 cylinders is to do direct port injection (like my w/m system):











As for comparing the FSI motor to the TSI motor there are many differences between the two.
I havent seen nearly as many TSI valve pictures as I have FSI, but over time we should really see how the valves look on the TSI.
I do contribute part of how clean my valves were to using a VTA PCV system (now using a straight dump tube for both PCV ports) and w/m. I have also used Mopar Combustion Chamber cleaner on my car twice (doubt that really did anything) and I regularly change my oil at 5k intervals w/ Pentosin.


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

That is quite simply the most awesome meth injection system I've seen. How much was it?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

a LOT
lol
bought the basic DVC 30 kit
bought parts to do dual nozzles via push lock fittings
killed my tb
bought TB spacer

w/m system started leaking

bought 2nd intake manifold, new w/m pump housing, AN fittings, AN lines, and AN wrenches
bought more an fittings
bought more an fittings
bought more an fittings
bought w/m pressure gauge

profit :laugh:


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## BCinco (Dec 17, 2006)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> a LOT
> lol
> bought the basic DVC 30 kit
> bought parts to do dual nozzles via push lock fittings
> ...


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I still get the feeling you'd do it all over again. 

Have you noticed any difference in terms of valve cleanliness? (I note it's a TSI, so I'm guessing they're sparkling?)


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4702837-You-might-be-an-alcoholic-when.../page7


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

BCinco said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I still get the feeling you'd do it all over again.
> 
> Have you noticed any difference in terms of valve cleanliness? (I note it's a TSI, so I'm guessing they're sparkling?)


Yeah I would probably do it again, but Im a sucker for punishment and love tinkering with stuff.
I have learned quite a bit and would definitely do things differently if I were to do it all over.



Krieger said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4702837-You-might-be-an-alcoholic-when.../page7


Yeah my valves were surprisingly clean, but there haven't been many pictures of TSI valves yet so we don't know how much cleaner the TSI runs in comparison to the FSI.
I still had some buildup on the valves, but it wasn't hard to clean it all up.

*It should be noted that I have been running a VTA catch can since ~25k miles (now at 76k miles). 

I did have a friend of mine (drives a MKV FSI) help me with the Intake Manifold uninstall/reinstall and he was stupified at how clean the valves were.


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