# Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R - VW shows thinly disguised Scirocco R model



## Phunkshon (Nov 16, 2005)

*Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R*

From VWvortex Home Page:
The thinly disguised Scirocco "Studie R" that you see here, is in fact basically the European Scirocco R model. Expected to arrive in Europe during 2009, the Scirocco R model will be built at the factory in Portugal which is *not* equipped to produce all-wheel-drive models. This means that the 270hp 2.0T will be putting power down through front wheels only, albeit with a new limited slip system. That's the bad news.
Good news is that those that have driven the car say that the system puts power down fairly effectively and the car is high on the fun-to-drive meter. Think of the best traits of the GTI and make it wider and lower and you have a fair idea of what the car is like.
So the burning question: will it come to America? Well... At the Paris Auto Show I had a chance to sit down with VWoA's current ruling leader, Stefan Jacoby and had a good time talking about VW's future plans. He asked me what I thought of a high trim-level Scirocco, perhaps in "R" sport trim, 265hp, sport seats, big brakes, etc., etc. My first question was if all-wheel-drive is part of the equation (it isn't) and the second was price. Since the Scirocco is really just a sportier GTI, there is the very real possibility that it could cannibalize GTI sales. VW would likely position the Scirocco at a starting price north of $30k to distance it from the GTI which puts it on shaky ground. Selling the Scirocco at a price point potentially $10,000 more expensive than a MazdaSpeed 3 is a very tough proposition. I'd like to see cool stuff like the Scirocco as much as anyone else, but I also want a car like this to be *successful* so we see more of them in the future. While the die-hard faithful will buy a few of them, I fear that we'll have the Golf VI R32 all over again where the remaining surplus of cars languishes on dealer lots and need big incentives to move them.
At this point a final decision hasn't been reached and almost anything could happen given the state of the car industry and the economy in general. We'll keep you posted as soon as we hear something, but feel free to chime in with your opinion here in our forums.
*FULL STORY...*
*PHOTOS*


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## turbocoupe88 (Jul 6, 2007)

Spoiler could be downsized. But overall I like this better then most of the Scirocco's I've seen.


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## DUB_SOLID (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (turbocoupe88)*

I herd a rumor that if the rocco does well might produce this and replace the R32.
From auto week magazine

*Revealed: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R
By DALE JEWETT
The Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R
VolkswagenVolkswagen used the Bologna motor show to roll out the Scirocco Studie R concept. And what we see is pointing the way to a car we expect to replace the Golf R32 in VW's lineup about a year from now. This new car is likely to be called the R20T.
Under the hood is a turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine rated at about 270 hp. The engine is mated to a six-speed dual-clutch transmission.
The exterior of the Studie R wears bodywork-- including hood vents and a rear spoiler--similar to that used on Sciroccos that grabbed racing victories at Nürburgring earlier this year. The car also sports high-gloss black detailing and red and green accents.
It also gets a racing-derived sports suspension, four-piston brake calipers and triple-spoke, 19-inch alloy wheels.* 


_Modified by DUB_SOLID at 9:12 AM 12-5-2008_


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## DUB_SOLID (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (DUB_SOLID)*

edit that, theres a whole damn thread about it ... did i mention I was blind?


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## Scirocco (Dec 20, 2000)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

Love the lights and seats, but I doubt the seats would come in a US model.

I want someone from VW to let me drive one.


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## DUB_SOLID (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Scirocco)*

yeah, the seats are gorgeous. Still not a huge fan of the paddle shifting though. Now I have never drove one but im pretty sure I would prefer stick


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## Barushie (Nov 11, 2007)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (DUB_SOLID)*

GOD would I love to add that .:R to the stable. Of course I would have to factor in the price of a tranny swap and other compatibility work before I would even sit in the seat.
DSG feels like an old arcade game. I keep looking for a spot to insert the quarters.


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## 71DubBugBug (Dec 3, 2006)

if only it had a third pedal!


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## DUB_SOLID (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (71DubBugBug)*

yeah this DSG stuff is just making people lazier and lazier.I would feel like such a corn ball rocking the paddle shift.


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## DUB_SOLID (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (71DubBugBug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *71DubBugBug* »_if only it had a third pedal!

and matching side mirriors


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## 1Point8TDan (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: (DUB_SOLID)*

That I want exactly like that. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Nevaeh_Speed (Jul 9, 2004)

I like, I like...Sexy beast.


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## VWduke (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: (Nevaeh_Speed)*

I'd probably be all over it if there was all-wheel-drive involved. I will never buy a front wheel drive car again. VW just needs to put AWD on all of their cars


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## neonhor (Jul 28, 2006)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

quick! someone ps bbs lms on that bad boy. if only it had awd


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## VwguyGTI (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (neonhor)*

Looks really good... I as well would be all over it if they made it with awd


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## mr_e1974 (Jun 6, 2002)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

It's a nice looking vehicle but if VW is going to offer this instead of a MKVI Golf R32/36 WITHOUT AWD and charge more than the current gen R32 you can just keep that over there in Europe and NOT bring it Stateside. People aren't going to buy enough of them at the $30k+ price tag that it would cost. Now, IF VWOA brought this over inplace of the MKVI Golf it MIGHT be an interesting top trim level. I just don't see the business case for the Scirocco here in the US.


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## 20thAEdub2615 (Jan 10, 2008)

*Re: (turbocoupe88)*

VWoA, do you guys perhaps need a testicle, kidney, eye, or anything else? THIS CAR IS PURE SEX!!!!! I will gladly give up my kids and future kids right now for this. They're hard workers with strong shoulders and I have taught them not to complain when it hurts. WTT?




























http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif 


_Modified by Str8edgeHades at 6:32 PM 12-11-2008_


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## madeurotuner (Sep 10, 2005)

*Re: (Str8edgeHades)*

Damn that thing is sexy.


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## vwishndaetr (Aug 8, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Interiors never fail on new cars. Seems like no matter what car is produced, VW always does well with their interior. Well in Europe anyhow. But the brakes sound cool too. Quad-pot, I like the sound of that.


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## Junkyolebluecar (Mar 5, 2004)

*Re: (uberbaron)*

If VWoA wanted to avoid canabilizing sales from the GTI they should consider making this a rear wheel drive car. It's real disappointing how few choices there are. I can't quite afford a BMW and don't want a Mustang. I wanna do some donuts!


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## Nexus (Jul 1, 2005)

*Re: (Junkyolebluecar)*

i agree rear wheel drive will set it apart from the gti, but im sure their will be traction issues due to the short wheel base,Haldex would be ideal .
I think VWOA should indeed bring this car here...under one condition it should be a limited R model. what this means is the price will sadly be higher, but it would not canabilize the GTI sales. Seeing that the price tag starts at over 30k ,with options and loan intrest the car should come out to about 13-17K more than the Gti . The cars will definantly sell out and fast if their is only 5000 of them


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## efritsch (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: (Nexus)*

I say ditch the GTI and bring this over. Or better yet, reduce the GTI back to a Rabbit GTI and have the Rocco be 'sports' car, like back in the early 80's.


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## akaeon182 (Apr 27, 2008)

its sexy but they should have made the whole thing less hatch and more car, truer to the original and its successor the corrado. then there would be no worry about it eating GTI sales.


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## VDUBGLI05 (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: (akaeon182)*

It is not an R and will never be an R if it does not come with all wheel drive!!!
VW listen up. If you are thinking about bringing this car to the US DON'T F IT UP. 
If you are going to call it an R it MUST have AWD no if ands or buts. I don't want some 
snooty german technician telling me how this new limited slip will do a,b and c and is better than AWD because x, y and z. We don't want to hear excuses. 
FIT THE CAR WITH AWD OR DON'T BRING IT TO THE US
END OF STORY!!


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## 155VERT83 (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

I *love* this car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 84SciroccoX-FLOW (Dec 3, 2006)

i promise to buy one, i will sign in blood...lol


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## CorradoMagic (Apr 11, 2008)

Looks great. Wing could be dialed down some for my tastes but probably works well. 
Better suspension, brakes & more power http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
amazing interior & nice exterior styling http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
still prices less than an A3 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Limited edition should sell well.
Mass produced with a lower cost should sell even better.

- Must have 6spd!
- AWD would be favorable. Make this the R model, drop the golf R. Give the people what they want.. A true sports car, not a plain GTI w/ AWD for + $10K
*(lackluster MKv R sales are due to styling/blandness, lack of a 3rd pedal(no one truley cares if DSG is .05 sec faster), and the fact that the better looking, cheaper GTI will all but outperform the R cept' in the twisties.
Want to shock the press, fans & general public? Want to complete w/ other classes like the 370Z & others? Keep it fresh, keep em guessing, keep doing what VW does.. taking risks, proving points, pushing the envelope, widening market audience. Make it RWD!
Now VW can enter the Drift game. (not my thing but its liked by many)- Now put it in a video game & make some more $$.
On the flip- the larger golf R w/ AWD is more practical & may appeal to a general audience.

Whatever you do VW, please bring it to America. Just dont dumb it down. Buyers dont need a thousand gadget features. We'd rather have performance, handling, styling & build quality. (not elec e brakes, umbrella pockets, 20 way power seats, $3K navi, multi zone climatronic & more.
K.I.S.VW


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## stoners vr6 (Mar 19, 2008)

*Re: (VDUBGLI05)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBGLI05* »_
FIT THE CAR WITH AWD OR DON'T BRING IT TO THE US
END OF STORY!!

Agreed, And throw in a 6 speed with a 3.6L VR6!!!! Then u get power, and style, with even more enjoyment. Then, it could replace the R32...


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## DUB_SOLID (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (stoners vr6)*

yeah, it will only replace the R32 if its AWD. If its not AWD its just another car in my book. Nothing special. RWD is a good idea too! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







If you wanna make sales, thats how you will do it


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## 84SciroccoX-FLOW (Dec 3, 2006)

i would say awd with a 2.0tsi :-D
edit:
italy edition only goes so far.
i want a *GERMAN* edition http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by 84SciroccoX-FLOW at 5:01 PM 12-11-2008_


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## der skillz (Aug 8, 2006)

oscar mayer?


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## jaegervw2 (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: (der skillz)*

Dang, i want it just for the interior alone! Those seats and wheel would do nice to sprouse up the inside of my '04 R32!








but by the time it makes it to our financially challenged shores I may be ready to trade in the .:R..... maybe....


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## Avus (Sep 20, 2000)

*Re:*

i am wondering if this car can beat GM's Cobalt SS??


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## DUB_SOLID (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (jaegervw2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaegervw2* »_Dang, i want it just for the interior alone! Those seats and wheel would do nice to sprouse up the inside of my '04 R32!








but by the time it makes it to our financially challenged shores I may be ready to trade in the .:R..... maybe....

I dunnnoooooooooo, Not sure even this will replace my 04 R32.


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## Teedubya (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: (84SciroccoX-FLOW)*

Everybody says this, but selling this car for that price will require a little more niche performance capability, namely all-wheel-drive and they need to squeeze out a few more horsepower. If the could get it over 300 hp (and correspondingly bump up the torque), that would help with the added weight of the AWD and probably put down some nice 0-60 and quarter mile times (but hurt mpg, I'm sure).
Notwithstanding the interior and styling features, a 2009 Subaru WRX Sti starts at 35k and an 2008 Lancer Evo was in the mid 30's (MSRP both examples). Each of these has AWD and have right around 300hp. If VW wants to compete in that space and not cannabalize sales from the GTI, they need to justify the premium price with a little more distinguishment in capability. If they can outdo Subaru and Mitsubishi in the fit/finish/interior styling department and have comparable performance, I think plenty of people who would rather buy the VW would finally find something to satisfy there needs. Unfortunately, you probably get into competing with some Audi sales at that point though.... tough situation for VW.


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## fastgermancar (May 4, 2005)

i love the Italian theme goin on


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## JVduw (Aug 24, 2007)

I hope VW is learning from this thread, because there is some undeniable logic.


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## sdpauly (Apr 4, 2004)

*Re: (JVduw)*

The 'Rocco looks great but I love my Mk IV R32, when I purchased it it was the ultimate performance VW available. Volkswagen, to date, has not provided an upgrade to the R32 platform that would make me want to get rid of my R. 
Sure, the MK V R32 is nice, but it was certainly no upgrade that would entice an entusiast like myself to trade up. Just look at residual values, the MK IV is still in higher demand.
Want to entice me to buy a new performance VW? Bring over the Scirocco as a limited "R" version with AWD and a 300+hp engine. Otherwise, I wouldn't even look twice at this.


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## Nexus (Jul 1, 2005)

*Re: Re: (Avus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Avus* »_i am wondering if this car can beat GM's Cobalt SS??

dude my stock 1.8t "beats" cobalt SS's


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## DUB_SOLID (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (sdpauly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdpauly* »_The 'Rocco looks great but I love my Mk IV R32, when I purchased it it was the ultimate performance VW available. Volkswagen, to date, has not provided an upgrade to the R32 platform that would make me want to get rid of my R. 
Sure, the MK V R32 is nice, but it was certainly no upgrade that would entice an entusiast like myself to trade up. Just look at residual values, the MK IV is still in higher demand.
Want to entice me to buy a new performance VW? Bring over the Scirocco as a limited "R" version with AWD and a 300+hp engine. Otherwise, I wouldn't even look twice at this.

couldnt of said it better my self
MKIV R32 FTMFW!


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## vr6gtispeed (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Nexus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nexus* »_
dude my stock 1.8t "beats" cobalt SS's

















Dought that. The Cobalt SS driver must not have been pushing it. The Mazdaspeed 3 pulls away from my R32 in the straits on the track. I think the Cobalt it as fast as the MS3.
I like the style but I'm not dropping that kind of money on a FWD car. VW doesn't have much going for it anymore. I can see the 135i for my next car.


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## Space9888 (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: Re: (vr6gtispeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6gtispeed* »_








Dought that. The Cobalt SS driver must not have been pushing it. The Mazdaspeed 3 pulls away from my R32 in the straits on the track. I think the Cobalt it as fast as the MS3.
I like the style but I'm not dropping that kind of money on a FWD car. VW doesn't have much going for it anymore. I can see the 135i for my next car. 

not to mention that there is 3 versions of the cobalt SS, higher output all motor, supercharged and turbocharged, and there is also* factory stage kits*
another example of a sucessful run of a product line is the Dodge neon SRT 4. These cars wouldnt be nearly as appealing or respected without *stage kit power options from the factory*




_Modified by Space9888 at 10:12 PM 12-11-2008_


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## Space9888 (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: Re: (vr6gtispeed)*

_Modified by Space9888 at 2:46 PM 12-13-2008_


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## aarya-mking3 (Aug 17, 2008)

sexy, but no awd makes it a little *eh, for that price i want more hp


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## GLSJet20 (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: Re: (Space9888)*

6MT + AWD... Make it a true replacement for the R32. Make it REALLY appeal to enthusiasts and make it appealing on paper to those who aren't quite sure what they want. There's no reason VW shouldn't be able to compete with WRX/STi and Evo sales if they put out a competitive product. It's silly for them to move in the opposite direction... Completely killing the R32? I don't blame them after the disaster that was the MkV R32, but... That's their own damn fault for targeting a car at enthusiasts and giving it an underpowered engine and no MT option to make it competitive at its price. The MkIV R32 redeems itself from its relatively underpowered (in class) engine with its fantastic feel and desirability among VW purists. The tuner market for it is quite strong as well. Taking away the option of a manual transmission is suicide for a product targeted at such an audience.
My opinion? Offer the Scirocco R with 4motion and a 6MT, and bump the power output to make it competitive with Subaru and Mitsubishi's offerings. That would allow for $30k+ pricing that I believe people WOULD pay for. The Scirocco is such a beautiful platform that strong sales are a good hook away.


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## 16vsilverstreak (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

Should have used the Corrado badge. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Figuraxc (Nov 19, 2006)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (16vsilverstreak)*

Needs either AWD or a true 6 Speed manual to get my attention.


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## ikers (Jul 8, 2008)

*Ummmmm AWD please! wtf?*

DSG I would be okay with. But with that much power and only FWD?








You get as much of a light fog on the road and you'll be spinning the fronts in 3rd gear...








You'll not take that many Audi sales. 
Why not take a risk on something out there? See what happens... You have nothing to lose. Lose Audi sale, lose Subaru STi sale, lose, Mitsu Evo sale, gain VW sale x10. 
Tell your bean counters to shove it








(Yes I do own a FWD GTI, and I now realize the mistake I have made leaving the AWD of the Audi...)


_Modified by ikers at 9:07 PM 12-11-2008_


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## 2lowcoupedoor (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (Teedubya)*

That spoiler has got to go







.


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## aarya-mking3 (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Ummmmm AWD please! wtf? (ikers)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ikers* »_DSG I would be okay with. But with that much power and only FWD?








You get as much of a light fog on the road and you'll be spinning the fronts in 3rd gear...








You'll not take that many Audi sales. 
Why not take a risk on something out there? See what happens... You have nothing to lose. Lose Audi sale, lose Subaru STi sale, lose, Mitsu Evo sale, gain VW sale x10. 
Tell your bean counters to shove it








(Yes I do own a FWD GTI, and I now realize the mistake I have made leaving the AWD of the Audi...)

_Modified by ikers at 9:07 PM 12-11-2008_

seriously... i want a fing evo/sti killer, if i had the money, at this point id rather put it to one of those cars, make something that people will find worth the price http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VR6170K (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Ummmmm AWD please! wtf? (aarya-mking3)*

absolutely amazing
where do I sign up for one








I would for sure buy one in a heart beat, bring them across the pond boys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 84SciroccoX-FLOW (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: (fastgermancar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastgermancar* »_i love the Italian theme goin on

are u more Italian or German? lol
i dont have any Italian in my family, my father is 100% German so ide like to embrace my heritage http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Boost Addicted (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (84SciroccoX-FLOW)*

This car would have to go after the Evo and STI directly to succeed in the US. and undercut their price. Give it AWD and start it at 29,900 bucks and youll have a real competitor to the evo and STI. as for an R32/R36, it would be a totally different driving experience to the Scirocco R so I dont see how this could replace the Golf .:R.
edit: to add, we have gone through this before VW. Everytime you bring out a performance car for the US in the upper 20's to 30,000 dollar range and ask our opinion, we tell you the same thing time and time again, it MUST beat the STI and EVO in order for us to consider. And unfortunately, we havent had a car do that. I hope you can bring this car here with the 270 HP and AWD with a 6 speed and DSG trans. Remember folks, GTIs are up there with WRX's at a 30 hp deficit. this rocco will do the same with an STI at a 30 hp deficit. TORQUE ftw.


_Modified by Boost Addicted at 12:10 AM 12-12-2008_


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

So, first of all, this is not going to be an Rxx replacement. The R32 is limited edition, they are basically sold out except for about 200 of them, there is currently no MkVI Rxx in Europe, and there won't be one in the US at least for another two years, if not longer.
Secondly - where do you think the sweet spot is? FWD with LSD at <$28K, fully loaded except NAV, or <$30K if DCC is included, or $34K to $36K (still without NAV, but likely DSG only) with 4Motion and a power upgrade that makes up for the 200lbs weight gain?
My bet is that very, very few people in these forums can afford that much money on a new car. On the other hand, we know that even with just 200hp and without a front LSD, the Scirocco (because of its light weight and superior chassis) is one of the faster FWD vehicles out there, faster than the R32 on dry roads. With more power and a front LSD, it would blow almost anything even remotely comparable off the road.
Personally, I truly like the combination of a strong turbo engine with AWD, in a a lightweight chassis (e.g., TT-S) --- but you pay for it. Here, there is an opportunity to get a great car at an affordable price. I am certain VW can easily sell four times as many in that sub-market. Which also makes it almost certain that a manual transmission variant would be financially feasible for VW - and that's a good thing.










_Modified by feels_road at 12:21 AM 12-12-2008_


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## SP Scirocco (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (feels_road)*

I hear everything you say... but I too would love to see a really bad ass sports car in the VW lineup. 
Scirocco R:
.300+ hp with R32 all wheel drive set up ( you get a great handling car with an exotic sound)
.6 speed (for the true drivers)
.Priced at $32,000ish (High enough that little kids can't afford it but low enough that people will feel like it's a fair deal)
I don't know how much it takes to build it but i would think that at $32,000ish a profit would still be there, even if it's only $100 per car If the car sells well your still making out... don't be so greedy VW. Think more about the major impact it would make in the auto seen. A *big* one, and would be a collectors car.








but what do i know ...


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## DUB_SOLID (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (SP Scirocco)*

man I really hope VW will read this thread because there are some very intelligent and good ideas regarding the rocco.http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








after all, this is supposed to be the people company right??


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## ReverendHorton (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (SP Scirocco)*

I can see it now...
This isn't going to sell and VWoA is going to use it as future justification that the US doesn't want sporty models when really it's because we want AWD if we are going to pay that much!


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## DUB_SOLID (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (ReverendHorton)*

They should just produce the .:R GTI here. That may be the only VW I would trade in the R32 for...


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## Samart (Jun 16, 2000)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (DUB_SOLID)*

VW, just forget about the Scirocco R. Bring the PROPER R over. The GTI R with AWD, MT and 265hp. I don't care if it takes 2 more years. That would make up for the mediocre MkV R.


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## CorradoMagic (Apr 11, 2008)

^ the Scirocco looks better IMO. Scirocco R w/ 280hp 2.0T, AWD, 6spd, no more than $31K = what the people want, a hot seller, a good idea for VW


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## vr6gtispeed (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (CorradoMagic)*

It's going to be far more than $30. The Fahrenheit GTI was going for over $30 at the dealer near my house. This car is going to be close to $40 if it comes as show above with the interior trim.


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## curvedinfinity (Oct 11, 2004)

I don't understand the AWD-ism here. This Scirocco will be about 600 lbs lighter than an STI or EVO. That's amazing.
For evidence, take a look at the Renault R26.R's N-ring time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N...times
The R26.R has only 235 hp and FWD, yet is faster than the 911, 335i, Cayman S, Exige S, 350Z, STI (listed as "2004 Subaru Impreza" -- the spec-c on the list was running racing tires), and EVO (listed as "Mitsubishi Charisma GT Evo VI").
How did it beat tons of 300 hp+ AWD and RWD cars? It weighs about 2700 lbs, among other things -- which is a benefit of being FWD.
Even the FWD 265 hp Cobalt SS beats the Evo and STI by a good measure. This Scirocco will be quite a bit lighter than the Cobalt.
The EVO and STI are hardly the gods that everyone cracks them up to be. AWD really isn't effective unless the road is wet or you are launching from a stand still. In real performance driving, especially with better tires, the AWD is practically dead weight.
I'll take FWD please.


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## vee6gti00 (Apr 6, 2004)

*Just my suggestion*

Bring them over in low volume at prices near that of the R32 now, market them to the same people that buy the 20th anv. and Fahrenheit. (300-500 units) for 28-32k
Lower the price of the R32. So guys getting out of college can spend there money.
Introduce the new Sirocco in a few years with AWD priced $5000 more than the MKVI R32/RGTI Depending on if you build them for us.
With the state of our economy I think these prices would really move cars
Scirrocco the way it is now for 30k
Rabbit no more than 15 fully loaded
GTI no more than 23 fully loaded
Scirocco R (low unit #) 32-35 AWD 300hp
R32/RGTI no more than 30 fully loaded 
The BMW 135i costs 35 and I almost never see them in Chicago. But I do see MkV R32s, lower the price and they will fly out of the lot!


_Modified by vee6gti00 at 6:07 PM 12-12-2008_


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## Toby16custom (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Just my suggestion (vee6gti00)*

i love the steering wheel















lol thats all


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## MildSeven (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: Just my suggestion (Toby16custom)*

*IS IT...*


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## Angx (Feb 3, 2006)

*Re: Just my suggestion (MildSeven)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MildSeven* »_*IS IT...*









I was wondering the same thing. I would sell my 08 gti in a heart beat and get this car. So what it costs abit more but that car is just pure sex.


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## Blu--Pearl (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: Just my suggestion (Angx)*

Well I've loved V-dubs all my life, but to be tru there are so many car out there. that are fast or car be made fast with a few mods and under 30 even 25k that I think its super crazy for VW to try and sell this car over 30k. On my bord days i go out and test dry other cars. And like in the review the mazda 3 is a nice car And has a few more things than a gti and cost less. I think they should bring the scirocco back and to America. The scirocco is one that many people been waiting and wanting to come back. And yes I know it has the same motor as a GTI but make it a lil faster im sure no one will complain about that. Also make it 4 wheels drive, Vw really needs to make a all wheel car that does have an heavy motor as the R32 and that does cost as much. Really I know VW needs and want to make money, Over priceing them and only selling a few and selling them at more reasonable price and selling more them will prob. sum the same amount of money or more. If the scirocco could sell for 27-28k im sure people would be all over it. 
I just wish this does it and make it to the states and sell at a nice $$ because i think its sexy sports car and wouldn't mind haven one myself. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for a sweet looken car.


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## Sosl0w (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: Just my suggestion (Toby16custom)*

I'm pretty much set on never buying a new car again for the rest of my life as its totally not worth it. But i would sell my current custom turbo'd GTI to buy this car if they brought it over. AWD or FWD, i don't give a crap. Just bring it over and bring it over soon. Not in 5 years.


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## GTI_LUV (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: Just my suggestion (Sosl0w)*

Give us a stripped-down Euro-spec R version no 4x4!
Give us a 27.5 - 28K price tag
And we will give you the $$
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Sosl0w (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: Just my suggestion (GTI_LUV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI_LUV* »_Give us a stripped-down Euro-spec R version no 4x4!
Give us a 27.5 - 28K price tag
And we will give you the $$
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thats the problem, why should they go through all of that when your already giving them the money for the GTI. They don't want to hurt GTI sales. So they need to find a way to bring it over and market it as a "special addition" so they can charge more for it and not hurt GTI sales. The problem is VW wants money without giving anything else. So unless they pump up the performance there's really no justification to charge 30K for something you can get the exact same in a GTI for 25k.


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## 911dub (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: Just my suggestion (Sosl0w)*

Well, I like the Scirocco Studie R. 
I'm kind of mixed on the AWD vs. FWD debate going on here. I mean if I really wanted an AWD VAG I'd buy a TT-S or an S3. 
As for FWD, why now are you putting a LSD and only in a special edition car? It should come standard on all GTI's or Scirocco's, if you're trying to compete with the MS3, the Cobalt SS, the SRT4, ect. 
As for power, 270HP looks great... but for an R:. or a special edition car? (you can get that in the MS3, the Cobalt SS, the SRT4, ect.) I understand that the Scirocco is much lighter and will perform better and that makes up for some of my disappointment, but I really want to see some track #'s. 
As for transmissions, I think VW should learn from the MKV R32. I don't think that it was a bad decision to put the DSG tranny in the R, I just think they should have offered a 6-speed as well. Just imagine how many more R's they would have sold if they also came with a 6-speed. There is a market out there for both transmissions, and VW is the only company in its sales bracket that offers a good "auto" tranny.
All-in-all I hope the Scirocco makes it over here, the US needs these cars on the roads.


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## GLSJet20 (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: (curvedinfinity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *curvedinfinity* »_I don't understand the AWD-ism here. This Scirocco will be about 600 lbs lighter than an STI or EVO. That's amazing.
For evidence, take a look at the Renault R26.R's N-ring time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N...times
The R26.R has only 235 hp and FWD, yet is faster than the 911, 335i, Cayman S, Exige S, 350Z, STI (listed as "2004 Subaru Impreza" -- the spec-c on the list was running racing tires), and EVO (listed as "Mitsubishi Charisma GT Evo VI").
How did it beat tons of 300 hp+ AWD and RWD cars? It weighs about 2700 lbs, among other things -- which is a benefit of being FWD.
Even the FWD 265 hp Cobalt SS beats the Evo and STI by a good measure. This Scirocco will be quite a bit lighter than the Cobalt.
The EVO and STI are hardly the gods that everyone cracks them up to be. AWD really isn't effective unless the road is wet or you are launching from a stand still. In real performance driving, especially with better tires, the AWD is practically dead weight.
I'll take FWD please.

AWD does not only help in those circumstances. On the track, the benefits of AWD are HUGE. FWD tends to understeer. Modern differentials help with this, but the fact of the matter is, you're not going to see the same corner exit speeds with FWD as you would with AWD or even RWD. AWD and RWD allow you to slide corners under power and leave at a substantially higher speed than a FWD opponent. It allows the power to be put to the wheels with the most traction at any given time, which on the street might not help except in rainy or emergency situations, but on the track, that alone will gain you .1g+ on the skid pad. Cornering characteristics are so very different between FWD and AWD cars. Point in case, when me and my friend go up to the mountains (Helen/Dahlonega) and drive "spiritedly" he can take the corners much more aggressively in his A4 1.8T quattro than I can in my VR6 Jetta. In a turn where I would understeer and end up going down a 300 foot ravine if I didn't slow down, he can slide the tail out a bit and power through the turn. I end up making up for lost time whenever he has to re-spool, but this isn't a 1.8T versus VR6 debate. Modern FWD differentials are getting better and better, the best example to date probably being Ford's new overseas offering, but in the end, the driving dynamics of an AWD machine cannot be matched by a FWD machine.

_Quote, originally posted by *GTI_LUV* »_Give us a stripped-down Euro-spec R version no 4x4!
Give us a 27.5 - 28K price tag
And we will give you the $$
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

This pricing is not going to happen. They DO NOT WANT the Scirocco to compete with GTI sales in any way. The GTI continues to sell well, and to throw out another product that will mess with a sure thing would be silly. The only way they can feasibly bring it over here is if they bring it up market. The only way they can bring it up market is if they make it more desirable than the GTI. The issue that they're not considering, however, is that it needs to remain competitive with offerings from other companies in the same price range. If they want to sell it for $35k+, it MUST have AWD. It MUST push close to 300hp. It MUST be offered with a manual transmission. The MkV R32 didn't fail just because it didn't look as good as the MkIV. They built a car aimed at enthusiasts without offering a manual transmission!
And when I say it MUST have AWD, I mean that the target demographic for such a product is going to be cross-shopping Subarus and Mitsubishis. FWD WILL be a deal-breaker for many people.
Use your heads, VW. Use your heads.


_Modified by GLSJet20 at 2:05 PM 12-12-2008_


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## 626818 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

It's been said many times, but hopefully VW is listening. Lose the wing / keep it for racing purposes or make it smaller, more befitting of the design of the car. (40+ hp and AWD couldn't hurt either!).
PLEASE KEEP THE SEATS AS IS!!
Thanks for the teasers.
Sincerely, 
VW owners of North America


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## R32R1 (Jul 1, 2008)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

I love it!!! 
4 things that need to be changed:
- Smaller spoiler
- 6-speed
- AWD
- VR


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## pimpbot (Jan 9, 2006)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

I have to ask: At over $30k, who is buying this car? I mean, I can see the stereotypical dotcommer mid 20's-early 30's guy with no kids buying an R32, but I dunno about this one. I think it might be too 'street racerboy' for somebody with that kinda cash to pony up. 
I would think anybody with that kinda dough would typically be older, and would want something that was a bit more 'sleeper' in looks. 
I would buy one if the styling was toned down a bit, (and I wasn't so broke). I loved my MK1 Scirocco. It had more character than my current MK3 GTi. Of course, the GTi is a way more technically advanced car, but that's just time marching on, like. 
I have to add... this thing needs a stick, too. DSG is cool... at least on paper.... but it boils down to being an automatic. A manual shifted gearbox isn't about the gears, its about the clutch... and this car doesn't have one you have access to. I like to feel for the catch point, I like to double clutch, I like compression, I like short shifting. All of which would be left out on a DSG.
After buying the Audi A4, I'm a huge fan of AWD as well. Put it up against the WRX, but without the cheesy plasticy interior. 



_Modified by pimpbot at 4:08 PM 12-12-2008_


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## MKV.RABBIT (Jun 18, 2007)

I want one!!







But only if it comes with a manual transmission...


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## R32R1 (Jul 1, 2008)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (pimpbot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pimpbot* »_I have to ask: At over $30k, who is buying this car? I mean, I can see the stereotypical dotcommer mid 20's-early 30's guy with no kids buying an R32, but I dunno about this one. I think it might be too 'street racerboy' for somebody with that kinda cash to pony up. 
I would think anybody with that kinda dough would typically be older, and would want something that was a bit more 'sleeper' in looks. 
I would buy one if the styling was toned down a bit, (and I wasn't so broke). I loved my MK1 Scirocco. It had more character than my current MK3 GTi. Of course, the GTi is a way more technically advanced car, but that's just time marching on, like. 
I have to add... this thing needs a stick, too. DSG is cool... at least on paper.... but it boils down to being an automatic. A manual shifted gearbox isn't about the gears, its about the clutch... and this car doesn't have one you have access to. I like to feel for the catch point, I like to double clutch, I like compression, I like short shifting. All of which would be left out on a DSG.
After buying the Audi A4, I'm a huge fan of AWD as well. Put it up against the WRX, but without the cheesy plasticy interior. 

_Modified by pimpbot at 4:08 PM 12-12-2008_

Perfect example. At thanksgiving dinner, my cousin's father (a WRX owner @ 60 years old) pulls into the driveway, gets out of his car, walks up to my cousin and the first thing he says isn't "Happy thanksgiving!!" or "Hey, nice to see you!", it's "Who's R32 is that???!!" He also drives a mk4 golf VR
It just goes to show you that alot of older guys like the .:R's, both mk4 and 5. I see two that drive them around here and about 3 that drive them in MA


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## Pete O. Arguelles (Jul 5, 2000)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (R32R1)*

I will not buy another FWD VW.
If you have the capability use it VW has not produced an AWD 4cyl GTI/Jetta for America which is what I would buy. There are many Japanese AWD vehicles so why not VW? 
With an AWD vehicle the fun factor goes way up I would dish out the cash for one. I've had many FWD so I'll hold out from now on for an AWD or I may do what many previous enthusiasts have done and go with an AWD Japanese vehicle.


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## 20th875 (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: (Teedubya)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Teedubya* »_Everybody says this, but selling this car for that price will require a little more niche performance capability, namely all-wheel-drive and they need to squeeze out a few more horsepower. If the could get it over 300 hp (and correspondingly bump up the torque), that would help with the added weight of the AWD and probably put down some nice 0-60 and quarter mile times (but hurt mpg, I'm sure).
Notwithstanding the interior and styling features, a 2009 Subaru WRX Sti starts at 35k and an 2008 Lancer Evo was in the mid 30's (MSRP both examples). Each of these has AWD and have right around 300hp. If VW wants to compete in that space and not cannabalize sales from the GTI, they need to justify the premium price with a little more distinguishment in capability. If they can outdo Subaru and Mitsubishi in the fit/finish/interior styling department and have comparable performance, I think plenty of people who would rather buy the VW would finally find something to satisfy there needs. Unfortunately, you probably get into competing with some Audi sales at that point though.... tough situation for VW.

There's some good logic there for sure. If a car is priced above $30k, then it must compete directly with Subaru and Mitsu. And if this $30k+ VW has good fit-n-finish and typical VW interior, with 300+ hp and AWD, it will sell. Most of the buyers for the Sti and Evo settle for fit-n-finish and interior quality that is well below that provided by VW. Those buyers want the performance and are clearly willing to sacrifice elsewhere. And they don't want FWD. In the end, it's not that hard for VW to compete, they just have to want to. I'd really like to see them do it. I gotta replace the 20AE sooner or later. This Scirroco R is looking pretty sweet and would be a great replacement for it. Also, this car should be offered with both 6 spd. and paddle shift. Don't pigeon-hole the car with only one transmission choice, that ruins sales too. Just look at the lack luster sales of the MKV .:R. No tranny choice and way too few horses on tap, performance/$ factor is just too low. That's why there are still .:R cars sitting on lots. Hopefully VW will listen. The buyers are speaking.


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## 20th875 (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Samart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Samart* »_VW, just forget about the Scirocco R. Bring the PROPER R over. The GTI R with AWD, MT and *265hp*. I don't care if it takes 2 more years. That would make up for the mediocre MkV R.

Not near enough power. That's why the MKV didn't sell (and lack of trannny choice, and price, and....) At that price, it absolutely must compete with the Sti/Evo. No question.


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## 20th875 (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (R32R1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32R1* »_
Perfect example. At thanksgiving dinner, my cousin's father (a WRX owner @ 60 years old) pulls into the driveway, gets out of his car, walks up to my cousin and the first thing he says isn't "Happy thanksgiving!!" or "Hey, nice to see you!", it's "Who's R32 is that???!!" He also drives a mk4 golf VR
It just goes to show you that alot of older guys like the .:R's, both mk4 and 5. I see two that drive them around here and about 3 that drive them in MA

I don't consider myself to be older (45). But I did own a MKI GTI. Bought it new in 1984. Always wanted a real upgrade to it and bought the 20AE, a great car at a great price point. But, with just 180 hp, it lacks traction, my main complaint. That being said, I'd buy the car in question (Scirroco), but being that it will most likely cost $30k+, it must have 300+ hp and AWD with a tranny choice. You are right, plenty of, let's say mature, men would buy this car too. But it must compete at its price point.
I don't want FWD again.
_Edited for clarity._


_Modified by 20th875 at 6:56 PM 12-12-2008_


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## Angx (Feb 3, 2006)

they should make the AWD an option, just like the spoiler, and the transmission. Personally this car needs at least 300 hp if they want to push it in the 35+ range. The interior is gorgeous so leave as is. Us NA gti owners got shafter with the interior while the european models had the 30 eddition interior.


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## curvedinfinity (Oct 11, 2004)

*Re: (GLSJet20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLSJet20* »_AWD does not only help in those circumstances. On the track, the benefits of AWD are HUGE. FWD tends to understeer. Modern differentials help with this, but the fact of the matter is, you're not going to see the same corner exit speeds with FWD as you would with AWD or even RWD. AWD and RWD allow you to slide corners under power and leave at a substantially higher speed than a FWD opponent. It allows the power to be put to the wheels with the most traction at any given time, which on the street might not help except in rainy or emergency situations, but on the track, that alone will gain you .1g+ on the skid pad. Cornering characteristics are so very different between FWD and AWD cars. Point in case, when me and my friend go up to the mountains (Helen/Dahlonega) and drive "spiritedly" he can take the corners much more aggressively in his A4 1.8T quattro than I can in my VR6 Jetta. In a turn where I would understeer and end up going down a 300 foot ravine if I didn't slow down, he can slide the tail out a bit and power through the turn. I end up making up for lost time whenever he has to re-spool, but this isn't a 1.8T versus VR6 debate. Modern FWD differentials are getting better and better, the best example to date probably being Ford's new overseas offering, but in the end, the driving dynamics of an AWD machine cannot be matched by a FWD machine.
_Modified by GLSJet20 at 2:05 PM 12-12-2008_

I actually have track experience, so stuff it. AWD doesn't add anything to lateral Gs unless the system has active yaw control. AWD will give more traction coming out of a low speed corner, but this is largely negated with track tires. The reason his 1.8T can go faster around corners is because he has wider tires.
Watch this guy in his MKV GTI at Summit Point Shenandoah(my home track):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v..._page
His car is stage 2 and he was the fastest guy in his run group that day. I have a chipped MKV GTI, but ran street pads that day, so I was getting heavy fade by the middle of each session. Even so, I was faster than the STIs and M3s when the brakes were OK.
FWD is fast as hell, and I'll take a FWD Scirocco over an AWD one any day.


_Modified by curvedinfinity at 8:46 PM 12-12-2008_


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (GLSJet20)*

This is just the 200hp version, without front LSD (substitute "fire" for ****:
http://videos.street****.net/v...0.htm
Class win at 24-hour of Nürburgring:
http://www.worldcarfans.com/90...hours
Fifth gear Scirocco:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj4xsvpyn7E
By the way, they are right, even in the US: the Scirocco is no competition to the 4-door GTI (which sold well), so VW has nothing to worry in this department.
Finally, there will be no AWD Scirocco, at least initially. The Portugal facility is not (yet?) set up to do AWD drive trains.


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## sciroccokartei (Nov 2, 2005)

*Re: Just my suggestion (911dub)*

Great R-Studie and great idea with Scirocco cup in china 2009.








I love to see the Scirocco R natural in september 2009 at the german IAA.


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## GTI_LUV (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: Just my suggestion (Sosl0w)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sosl0w* »_
Thats the problem, why should they go through all of that when your already giving them the money for the GTI. They don't want to hurt GTI sales. *So they need to find a way to bring it over and market it as a "special addition" so they can charge more for it and not hurt GTI sales.* The problem is VW wants money without giving anything else. *So unless they pump up the performance there's really no justification to charge 30K for something you can get the exact same in a GTI for 25k.*
*
*
*
**
*
I Understand what you are saying - but think about this- If they bring it over in limited numbers (see R 32) I can't see it having a huge impact on GTI Sales. I have to disagree with you on the point that you can get the exact performance with the GTI and Scirocco. That's simply not the case. 
From what I've read and watched - the Scirocco trumps the GTI in handling and "driving fun" We should wait till the end of the year to see how well the GTI sells in Europe -now that its evil brother is out too. Anyone have any figures?


_Modified by GTI_LUV at 1:51 AM 12-13-2008_


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## v double u (Jan 6, 2004)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

Well, at this point, I think the best plan of action would be not to jeporadize or hurt the sales of other VW models such as the GTI. From what I have been reading, the new MKVI GTI heading for the states sounds like it will be sitting strong and pose a good possibility for good sales too, the key here is keeping the price as close as possible to the current GTI, its already expensive as it is. For the next R series golf, I have faith in VWoA that they will figure out from their past experiences what would be the best option as far as what to offer for this replacement of the MKV R32. Yes, we did ask for DSG but we also said bring manual gearboxes too. I would make the next R series have standard 6-speed tranny like the MKIV R32. I would also plan to either have a small portion of the new R series being developed to be equippee with a DSG system or at least make it available for pre-ordering purposes. I am a fan of the DSG system as well as a 6-speed manual. Currently in my life, the DSG system makes more sense and it fits me better. For example, my girlfriend dislikes driving a manual tranny, I have tried, but it just doesn't appeal to her at all, therefore she never driver my car and it is a pain trying to make plans to work around a vehicle with a manual tranny because of this. Anyways, as a VW sales consultant as well, seeing how my manager complained about the low amount of traffic for the MKV R32 there was when we had two in stock, make a manual tranny standard, and make a DSG avail...maybe like a 75% manual and 25% DSG or something. Leave this to VW, I think they got the message about "what the people want" as far as the results of the MKV R32 sales were. By the way, you really need to spend some time behind the wheel to appreciate the DSG system, I feel most others just say, "give me a third pedal!" way to fast and prematurely. It really is a great system, give it a shot and then give it another one, you'll see.
The Scirocco, I say leave it in Europe unless...
1) There will be a very small risk of hurting GTI and R series sales
2) It will be the next "R" series high performance hatch
3) Price stays as close as possible to $30,000, any higher and you'll have mixed shoppers with other competitive product.
4) Is there room for this addition for the VW market? How are things doing over in Europe with its introduction? I would say go off of how that has worked so far in Europe and then factor in the current state of the U.S. economy currently...meaning, be very careful as far as when to bring this model over if VW is going to. I say bring over a cheap performance edition of a GTI stripping away select items to increase interest and sales for now. We need help in the economy, not increased product cost! Make the effort to work the other way, effeciency and quick availability with some decent intro incentives will help VW major I think. Oh yea, make the next R with less weight, break the 300hp and 300tq mark, standard AWD, avail DSG w/ standard 6/7 speed manual, add some unique colors, add in new MKVI rumored features and qualities, keep price below current MKV R32, and get it around the world fast and fair, and be done with it til next time.


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## 29_MALE_SOCAL_SPICY (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (v double u)*

some good points in here and some way way off...
DSG and FWD are great for every day cars, but not performance cars. And if I spend over 30k on a car, it needs to be performance based. So it must have AWD and 6 speed manual.
This is simple to understand. Every EVO and STI owner feels this way. Those cars are 35k. There is NO reason why VW cannot give us a AWD 6speed package. Offer DSG as a option, but the USA needs a manual 6.
I think people will be happy with a turbo motor, even the 2.0. I really wish VW would say F off to Audi and everyone else and give us the 2.5T Thats something i would pay for, turbo and displacement. I would also take the 3.6 300hp.
GTI, rabbit, Golf, rocco, Rado, blah blah ....
i dont care what its called or what it looks like, its the driveline and motor that I can about.
The Rocco Studie R looks great, but performance and FWD do not go together... Also, for the people that think this car will weight under 3000 are smoking crack.


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## djm1968 (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: (curvedinfinity)*

CI,
I agree completely. Last thing we need is an overweight car with tons of gadgets, leather. NAV etc. This should be a drivers car. Give it light weight seats, dump the rear seats, make a sport roll cage an option...like the Renault.
The Renault R26.R is a model of what the Scirocco should be -- a light weight, focused performance car. 260hp through the fronts should be fine if VW gives it a real LSD -- the new Ford Focus RS, with 300hp, FWD only, manages to put down the power quite well.
Cheers,
DJM

_Quote, originally posted by *curvedinfinity* »_I don't understand the AWD-ism here. This Scirocco will be about 600 lbs lighter than an STI or EVO. That's amazing.
For evidence, take a look at the Renault R26.R's N-ring time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N...times
The R26.R has only 235 hp and FWD, yet is faster than the 911, 335i, Cayman S, Exige S, 350Z, STI (listed as "2004 Subaru Impreza" -- the spec-c on the list was running racing tires), and EVO (listed as "Mitsubishi Charisma GT Evo VI").
How did it beat tons of 300 hp+ AWD and RWD cars? It weighs about 2700 lbs, among other things -- which is a benefit of being FWD.
Even the FWD 265 hp Cobalt SS beats the Evo and STI by a good measure. This Scirocco will be quite a bit lighter than the Cobalt.
The EVO and STI are hardly the gods that everyone cracks them up to be. AWD really isn't effective unless the road is wet or you are launching from a stand still. In real performance driving, especially with better tires, the AWD is practically dead weight.
I'll take FWD please.


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## argh32 (Apr 8, 2004)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

This is a very good looking car, I say bring it! Of course it will arrive here with the standard VW 4X4 look. Also, they show us these sexed up versions and the cars we get just don't look as good. 
I just don't get the whole GTI canibalize thing...why would it be any different here than in their other markets? Seems like the VW marketing folks really are clueless when making decisions about what to bring over here. They wasted gazillions on that big fat heavy Phaeton. This Rocco will certainly appeal to many of the VW faithful.


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## pimpbot (Jan 9, 2006)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (29_MALE_SOCAL_SPICY)*

I have to second this, too. 
FWD does not agree with loads of power and torque and manual transmissions, IMO. The car is just too squrirely off the line, and gets squirrely in zipping around town, in traffic, and on twisty roads. I would personally have a hard time buying a performance FWD car that cost as much as a base BMW 3 class. Yeah, FWD does better in snow than RWD at low speed around town kinda stuff, but that's about it.
I think for everyday driving with average amounts of power, FWD is fine, but that's not what I'm going to drop $35k on.
I really oughta go drive a DSG car because it may change my opinion. But the other autos, even Tiptronic cars, I find annoying. I don't want a computer to figure out when to shift for me. Even if I do the shifting, there is still the issue of the clutch. I don't want a computer to figure out the amount of clutch slip I want.
I like what the other poster said about being a driver's car. About stripping it down to the bare bones (well, Sunroof, AC, power windows, and a stereo), dump the back seat, dump the leather (you slip around when pushing hard in the turns anyway) dump the NAV, and you got the right theme. 


_Modified by pimpbot at 5:08 PM 12-13-2008_


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## xbluewaterx (Jul 20, 2006)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (R32R1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32R1* »_I love it!!! 
4 things that need to be changed:
- Smaller spoiler
- 6-speed
- AWD
- VR









x2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PUMA4kicks (Aug 10, 2007)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (xbluewaterx)*

Screw AWD. As long as this car has a proper LSD all will be OK. AWD just adds weight, cost, and ruins the cars handling when pushed. As Jamie said, the biggest issue is price, and VW doesn't want another R32 VI no-sale-for-eons-and-eons. Dumb down the VI GTI and drop the price of the new Scirocco R just below $30k and VWoA will have a winner. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ReverendHorton (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (PUMA4kicks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PUMA4kicks* »_Screw AWD. As long as this car has a proper LSD all will be OK. 

does it, though? I cringe at "electronic" LSD. The electronic differential lock in MK4s is a joke and not anything like a real mechanical LSD.


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## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (curvedinfinity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *curvedinfinity* »_I don't understand the AWD-ism here. This Scirocco will be about 600 lbs lighter than an STI or EVO. That's amazing.

How did it beat tons of 300 hp+ AWD and RWD cars? It weighs about 2700 lbs, among other things -- which is a benefit of being FWD.
This Scirocco will be quite a bit lighter than the Cobalt.
The EVO and STI are hardly the gods that everyone cracks them up to be. 

*AWD really isn't effective unless the road is wet or you are launching from a stand still. In real performance driving, especially with better tires, the AWD is practically dead weight.*
I'll take FWD please.

Why Formula1 cars never used the AWD format?







Although there was the Tyrrell P34, a 6 wheeled (4 10" dia front steering, 2 rear driven wheels) F1 entree. 








If you stuff a VR6 in there it would prolly have that nose heavy characteristic from the VR6 GTI. In a straight line it is great but take it over SR-91 to Santa Cruz at night you'd back off the gas a bit coz it's not fun. FWD or RWD as long as it ain't AWD I'd take one for $31K and pay in full too.


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## VLKWGN (Jul 11, 2006)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (ReverendHorton)*

Im going to chime is and say 
VWoA thinks that the new R's had a horrible turnout in america well if they were 6 spd like they should be they would of sold before they even made it to the dealers that DSG ******** is garbage ya it shifts super fast and is a great design but in my opinion most people that get into a GTI or a R32 want to drive it like it should be driven not put it in drive and leave your left foot hanging around lost over on that dead pedal ...STUPID .. 
And if VWoA brings the scirocco over with no option of a 6 spd the sales will be the same as the R. 
The new scirocco is amazing i would gladly trade my GTI into the scirocco only if it was a 6 spd im not all that concerned about the AWD but it would definatly be a awesome feature to the car.
Price not to concerned about either if its something you want youll buy people go out and spend up to 60 grand on a diesel truck ??? for what to make noise and pull stuff and pour out black smoke everywhere. Same thing in my opinion theres a ass for every seat and my ass would be feeling pretty good in a 6 spd scirocco.
If the new R came out in a 6 spd i would have traded my car in for it also it was a big disappointment to me and im sure a lot of other enthusiest. There should be a option of either a DSG or 6 spd 
Sorry im kind of all over the place with this and im sure VWoA isnt listening but oh well just a opinion







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


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## VLKWGN (Jul 11, 2006)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (VLKWGN)*

and why cant i say bull sht but i can say ass


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## gti dreamn (May 18, 2002)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (VwguyGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VwguyGTI* »_Looks really good... I as well would be all over it if they made it with awd

why does every "uber" car VW makes/displays have to have AWD (







)
The new 370Z doesn't have AWD, neither does the S2000, Miata, and they seem to do just fine. Granted that is a RWD -> FWD comparison, but AWD is not the end all, be all to making a great car. I guess I could include the Mini Cooper S too.
Yes, I will agree that AWD does provide an advantage to better handling and road grip, but it isn't the only thing that makes a great car great.
Putting a good suspension on the Scirocco with the LSD, would be just as affective as having an AWD set up, yet it would keep weight down leading to other benefits.
VW has put themselves in a pickle with this car. It is supposed to be better than a GTI, but not as good as the R32, and not steal sales from either...but as we can see, that won't be the case.
It seems that VW wants their cake and eat it too, along with some pie.
I guess it is time for hte R36 and forget how it will affect Audi sales. In any case, it seems that VWs are getting more and more expensive and I know for a fact, *that is not what the people want.*




_Modified by gti dreamn at 11:46 AM 12-14-2008_


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## vr6gtispeed (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (VLKWGN)*

If the Scirocco is in the low to mid $30s, there are a few cars it has to compete with. The new 370Z, G37, 135i, STi, EVO, Audi A3 V6 AWD, Audi TT, Saturn Sky Red Line, Honda S2000, RX-8. All these car are in the $30k to $40k range based on Motor Trend's web site. I hope the Scirocco can hold up to these cars when/if it gets here.


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## macosxuser (Jul 26, 2007)

*Re: (Teedubya)*

No AWD would be a deal killer for me at that price. I'd rather go with an A3 2.0T 6 speed. DSG is OK, but I prefer 6 speed.


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## patricio (Nov 17, 2004)

I think the new scirocco is a beauty. I had fwd car with 200hp at the wheels and it really is a pain. One of the things that pisses me of is tire wear. With all the power tires wear out very fast...faster if it is a fwd because they loose traction alot more the that other two. However, that being said, there are a lot of race configured fwd cars that do pretty good. Look at the BBTC Seat Leon´s , they do pretty good. also look at the new Focus RS with 300hp and a LSD. That being said, VW IMO is ¨thinking¨and producing a car with sensible performance capable of holding on on the tracks (at its limits) with other awd, rwd, and fwd car with similar or much more powerfull. Hey 1 or 3 seconds in a 1 or 2 min course is not much. Most people like cars for their looks. I love performance, especially when this performance is not lost by wheel spin. But most people prefer that awsome mid range (2000-5000rpms) for overtaking. This is what these car do the best. Plus you have the added looks. Hopefully this E-LSD will reduce the some of the traction issues with the fwd car, this will for sure bring back the balance towards the positive side on the HP/Torque vs Traction debate. If VAG came out with a 240hp CUPRA and Golf GTI 240 with out the LSD why not a 265 Scirocco with the E-LSD? It is probably worth it....
That being said if it were AWD I would take it anytime. In my city it raing 3/4 of the year plus it in the mountains with very steep roads...AWD is all here. In a semi dry area, fwd will do just fine....


_Modified by patricio at 11:40 AM 12-14-2008_


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## curvedinfinity (Oct 11, 2004)

*Re: (djm1968)*


_Quote, originally posted by *djm1968* »_CI,
I agree completely. Last thing we need is an overweight car with tons of gadgets, leather. NAV etc. This should be a drivers car. Give it light weight seats, dump the rear seats, make a sport roll cage an option...like the Renault.
The Renault R26.R is a model of what the Scirocco should be -- a light weight, focused performance car. 260hp through the fronts should be fine if VW gives it a real LSD -- the new Ford Focus RS, with 300hp, FWD only, manages to put down the power quite well.
Cheers,
DJM


The sad thing is that most of these blokes probably think a "Renault" is some kind of classical music or perhaps a cocktail.
If you're looking for something brand new, FWD or not, the R26.R is simply THE budget street-legal race car. It shames a lot more expensive hardware. You put it on a tighter track than the N-Ring and I bet it would give a Z06 a tough time.
Weight is the end all for track performance. FWD is the most weight-effective design for a platform that must support more than two doors. Sophistications in suspension design, increased tire width, and more advanced tire compounds are making FWD handle power much better than it used to. 300 hp is very reasonable for these cars.


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## ALTIMA (Oct 1, 2004)

My god I want one.. My lease on my GLI is up and the GTI is just too much like my car now.. I think the passat is to grown up lookign for me.. this would fit in just perfect.. wish it was here now!


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## VW03Getta (Jan 27, 2007)

i'd drop my fully bolted speed 3 in a heart beat for this.


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (gti dreamn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gti dreamn* »_VW has put themselves in a pickle with this car. It is supposed to be better than a GTI, but not as good as the R32, and not steal sales from either...but as we can see, that won't be the case.

The Scirocco clearly handles a lot better than the GTI, and is quite a bit faster even at just 200hp. There is no Rxx currently, and likely won't be one for another couple of years or more - so I fail to see any problem concerning sales.
Also, the 4-door GTI will still be the car of choice for the more practically mined. In fact, if that one comes with the front LSD, I will likely buy it over the Scirocco. I don't think VW has anything to worry about with regard to "cannibalizing" GTI sales - they are just going to have _more_ sales, total.


_Modified by feels_road at 9:43 PM 12-14-2008_


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (macosxuser)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6gtispeed* »_If the Scirocco is in the low to mid $30s, there are a few cars it has to compete with. 


_Quote, originally posted by *macosxuser* »_No AWD would be a deal killer for me at that price.

Where are you guys getting these prices from? I don't see how the Scirocco would be over $28K loaded (similar to loaded GTI), without NAV and with manual transmission. Sure, DCC would be another $1000.00 or so, and if it gets the S3 engine, that would add to the price (which is why I am still doubtful of that, unless the true additional cost for that engine are below $1000.00 or so - which is very doubtful).


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (ReverendHorton)*

_Screw AWD. As long as this car has a proper LSD all will be OK. _ 

_Quote, originally posted by *ReverendHorton* »_does it, though? I cringe at "electronic" LSD. The electronic differential lock in MK4s is a joke and not anything like a real mechanical LSD. 

We don't know yet - the 200hp Scirocco doesn't.  But the MkVI GTI has a true front LSD (details sketchy), and if the Scirocco gets any hp bump for the US, I don't see why they wouldn't add the front LSD, now that they have developed it. 
Without hp bump and without front LSD it would be a good, but not outstanding car in a highly competitive market. With hp bump and front LSD, it would be one of the best-handling and fastest FWD cars on the market, and one that (unlike most of its competition) also would be a great daily driver with a great interior - all below $30k. Now, the latter is in my view a much better sales proposition for VW than the former.


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## curvedinfinity (Oct 11, 2004)

*Re: (feels_road)*


_Quote »_Where are you guys getting these prices from?

VW will make an R20T Scirocco (the production model of this concept) with the 265 hp 2.0T. FWD only. DCC and new LSD included. Pricing is to be 25,000 GBP. Story:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/S...story/
According to some US dealership guys in the New Scirocco forum, general managers have received word of some kind of Scirocco coming out late 2009 as a 2010 model. Pricing $30,000-$35,000
Whether next year's US Scirocco is the R20T has not been confirmed, but the UK R32 is also priced at 25k GBP, so the two rumors seem to indicate that next year's Scirocco is to be the R20T.


_Modified by curvedinfinity at 6:02 PM 12-14-2008_


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## gti dreamn (May 18, 2002)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (feels_road)*


_Quote, originally posted by *feels_road* »_Also, the 4-door GTI will still be the car of choice for the more practically mined. In fact, if that one comes with the front LSD, I will likely buy it over the Scirocco. I don't think VW has anything to worry about with regard to "cannibalizing" GTI sales - they are just going to have _more_ sales, total.

Unfortuenately VW won't see it that way. All they will see is GTI sales down when compared to previous YTD or YTD-month sales figures despite the 'large' number of 'rocco sales.
If they could think in the positve about more overall sales, regardless of what sold, then, that is a good thing.
What would concern me more is the fact that VW is moving more and more toward the DSG transmission. Yes, it is great and all, but there are still some VW or potential VW owners that still want to row their own gears. I know I do. As long as they (VW) will still offer a 3-pedal option on their "best" cars, then there shouldn't be any problem moving units.
What would be nice is more cars with 4-motion and a manual and not just uber performance cars either.


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## vr6gtispeed (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (gti dreamn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gti dreamn* »_What would concern me more is the fact that VW is moving more and more toward the DSG transmission. Yes, it is great and all, but there are still some VW or potential VW owners that still want to row their own gears. I know I do. As long as they (VW) will still offer a 3-pedal option on their "best" cars, then there shouldn't be any problem moving units.

If they don't, I'm looking else where for my next car.


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## BuPsychBass (Jan 23, 2008)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

too bad we'll never ever ever.... ever see this car stateside


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## elmuffler (Feb 22, 2008)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

no all - wheel drive i wont buy it


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## JVduw (Aug 24, 2007)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (elmuffler)*

For it to be successful and be in a different league than the GTI, it has to be made to compete with the STi and cars like those.


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (curvedinfinity)*

Yeah, but the US is a completely different market: here, ~250hp FWD cars sell at or below $25K - not in the $30K to $35K range. 
For the US, no matter that the VW will be a better daily driver and will have a nicer interior, VW must compromise. That's why I think they will try to save money by not having DCC standard (likely not even an option), and by just using a bumped-up regular 2.0T instead of the S3 engine. True front LSD should stay, because others in the segment have it, and it's not that expensive.
AWD is out, because with the necessary upgrades to be competitive in handling and acceleration, it would push the Scirocco beyond $35K - let alone the fact that VW currently has no inexpensive means to produce an AWD Scirocco.


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## curvedinfinity (Oct 11, 2004)

*Re: (feels_road)*


_Quote, originally posted by *feels_road* »_Yeah, but the US is a completely different market: here, ~250hp FWD cars sell at or below $25K - not in the $30K to $35K range.

I hear the 200hp Audi A3 sells for $30-40k (I just configured a FWD one for $39,125). This Scirocco is considerably better than an A3 in the performance ways. It also has all of the goodies, and an interior that is just as nice. I don't know what crack pipe people smoke, but VW is essentially a luxury plate without the stigma attached.
$35k for the 265hp motor, LSD, DCC, and _all the other stuff a Volkswagen comes with, that no other non-luxury brand sells_ is perfectly fair. For practically the same thing except in Audi form (the TT-S), you'd be paying almost $50,000.


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## EyeDoughnutNo (Aug 28, 2008)

This is VWs chance to successfully steal away sales from the Evo and STi. An AWD turbo powered car with these looks, this interior, and refinement would blow away the competition. Add in a 2.5 I-5 turbo, and you have the stuff of legend...








I will be out of college pretty soon, and that would be the EXACT car I would want to buy. I love VW and would not want to have to settle for some Japanese performance car alternative. No problem with Audi, but I don't exactly want the "stigma (in a sense)" attached to buying a luxury brand just for the sake of owning a luxury brand for the name, regardless of performance. No offense to anyone intended.
The competition costs mid thirties to near $40k in this performance range, so even $39k (because $40k looks like it's the most expensive car in the world for some reason) could be expected for a car of this caliber... and I would buy with the intention of keeping that baby..








I don't see any problem with them selling the cheaper FWD version as well. That way, everybody's happy.


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## vr6gtispeed (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (feels_road)*


_Quote, originally posted by *feels_road* »_Where are you guys getting these prices from? I don't see how the Scirocco would be over $28K loaded (similar to loaded GTI), without NAV and with manual transmission. Sure, DCC would be another $1000.00 or so, and if it gets the S3 engine, that would add to the price (which is why I am still doubtful of that, unless the true additional cost for that engine are below $1000.00 or so - which is very doubtful).

It's on the main artical.
*VW would likely position the Scirocco at a starting price north of $30k to distance it from the GTI which puts it on shaky ground.*

_Quote, originally posted by *curvedinfinity* »_
VW is essentially a luxury plate without the stigma attached.

VW has a long way to go before they are a luxury brand.


_Modified by vr6gtispeed at 1:18 PM 12-15-2008_


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (Teedubya)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Teedubya* »_Notwithstanding the interior and styling features, a 2009 Subaru WRX Sti starts at 35k and an 2008 Lancer Evo was in the mid 30's (MSRP both examples). Each of these has AWD and have right around 300hp. If VW wants to compete in that space and not cannabalize sales from the GTI, they need to justify the premium price with a little more distinguishment in capability. If they can outdo Subaru and Mitsubishi in the fit/finish/interior styling department and have comparable performance, I think plenty of people who would rather buy the VW would finally find something to satisfy there needs. Unfortunately, you probably get into competing with some Audi sales at that point though.... tough situation for VW.

Exactly right. If VW wants to start competing with actually FAST cars - they should start adding AWD as an option and not charging psychotic amounts for it.








270HP FWD = Lame.
270HP AWD = Fun.
300HP+ AWD = FINALLY something comparable to other auto makers.
VW is making me sick with all this crap. And for Christ's sake - how about a freakin' 6 speed!?















Really. VW is actually saddening me. I'm looking into another car next year - and my **only** VW option is a MKIV .:R32. Everything else from VWAG is basically either cheap and unexciting - or too expensive and borderline exciting (see S4). 
edit: 270HP with a REAL LSD is a step in the right direction - but over 300HP and it won't matter. Traction @ 300+HP FWD is irritating as hell.










_Modified by MeiK at 1:58 PM 12-15-2008_


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## DUB_SOLID (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (MeiK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MeiK* »_
Exactly right. If VW wants to start competing with actually FAST cars - they should start adding AWD as an option and not charging psychotic amounts for it.








270HP FWD = Lame.
270HP AWD = Fun.
300HP+ AWD = FINALLY something comparable to other auto makers.
VW is making me sick with all this crap. And for Christ's sake - how about a freakin' 6 speed!?















Really. VW is actually saddening me. I'm looking into another car next year - and my **only** VW option is a MKIV .:R32. Everything else from VWAG is basically either cheap and unexciting - or too expensive and borderline exciting (see S4). 
edit: 270HP with a REAL LSD is a step in the right direction - but over 300HP and it won't matter. Traction @ 300+HP FWD is irritating as hell.









_Modified by MeiK at 1:58 PM 12-15-2008_

You can always buy a MKIV R32 and turbo charge it







You can buy the R and turbo charge it for the same price as the sh "eh" rocco


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (DUB_SOLID)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_SOLID* »_
You can always buy a MKIV R32 and turbo charge it







You can buy the R and turbo charge it for the same price as the sh "eh" rocco

Oh that'd deff be the plan!







In all honesty I'd end up putting my motor in the .:R32 for the AWD and putting the 3.2L in the GTI and selling it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Deff wouldn't stay N/A regardless








edit: before someone hates on me for that idea ^^^ read sig.







Built low comp 2.9T > N/A 3.2


_Modified by MeiK at 2:17 PM 12-15-2008_


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## curvedinfinity (Oct 11, 2004)

*Re: (vr6gtispeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6gtispeed* »_
VW has a long way to go before they are a luxury brand.

You've obviously never been to Europe. VW is considered about as luxurious as BMW there. The taxis in France, where I've stayed extensively, are a luxury because there is so much public transportation. The taxis are largely either Mercedes S-classes or Volkswagen Passats.
And want to hear another secret? VW's are considered one of the most reliable brands in Europe.
And don't say europe is crazy. Its called "Brand Image." Toyotas aren't really more reliable than the next car (especially lately). The reason Americans think that is because the conception is self-reinforcing. -- The more people think something, the more people think the same thing. It has nothing to do with what actually is.
Pound for pound, objectively speaking, VW has better interiors and finishing than BMW. That's undeniable. BMW does have better motors and chassis, but regardless, this does make VW *essentially* a luxury brand without the stigma -- call that what you will. It certainly isn't a mainstream brand -- that's for damned sure.


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## vr6gtispeed (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (curvedinfinity)*

I've been to Europe and Germany a number of times. I've visited the Autostadt and a factory tour back in 2006. I know where I see them and it's not a luxury brand.

_Quote, originally posted by *curvedinfinity* »_
You've obviously never been to Europe. VW is considered about as luxurious as BMW there. The taxis in France, where I've stayed extensively, are a luxury because there is so much public transportation. The taxis are largely either Mercedes S-classes or Volkswagen Passats.
And want to hear another secret? VW's are considered one of the most reliable brands in Europe.
And don't say europe is crazy. Its called "Brand Image." Toyotas aren't really more reliable than the next car (especially lately). The reason Americans think that is because the conception is self-reinforcing. -- The more people think something, the more people think the same thing. It has nothing to do with what actually is.
Pound for pound, objectively speaking, VW has better interiors and finishing than BMW. That's undeniable. BMW does have better motors and chassis, but regardless, this does make VW *essentially* a luxury brand without the stigma -- call that what you will. It certainly isn't a mainstream brand -- that's for damned sure.


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## acpjxm (Feb 22, 1999)

For me, I like it without AWD, but with a stick. A Scirocco should be simple and lightweight --- and fast. Tone down the rear spoiler, too. Maybe to keep from cannibalizing GTI sales, they could replace the 2-door GTI with the 'rocco, and continue to offer the 4-door GTI, but with the 270-hp engine.
To those who wanted VW to offer the Scirocco with RWD --- it'll never happen. The cost of developing and manufacturing a unique drivetrain that isn't shared with any other models would drive the cost of the Scirocco through the roof.


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## ThaCorradoKid (May 26, 2004)

needs 3 pedals, and a different dash than a gti.


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## myvwisfast (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: (acpjxm)*

...And speaking of shared components and drivetrains, all the pieces are in place for a real onslaught waged by VoA. Since the cars share so much across the model range, they should drastically slash prices. They would offer a better product than, but be comparably priced to, anything Mazda or Soobie has to offer. 
I agree, too, that more of a positive "big picture" attitude toward overall sales vs. the idea of cannibalism would help the cause greatly in above-mentioned onslaught on the other car makers. Rather than worry about hurting sales of one model versus the other, they could lower the price of the entry level A3, give us the S3 for $30k -ish and keep the GTI & Scirocco under $25k.
They may lose some at first, but think how many more people would come to VW from other car companies if they offered something better than the Mazdaspeed 3 for similar dinero.
10,000 x $25k = $25M
4,000 x $35k = $14M
More people can afford $20-25k than can justify the $35k on a VW. 
Drop the prices, steal the sales margin from Japan. There is bound to be a void in the market after the Big 3 die....right? VAG should take it. 
1. Diesel & AWD offered in every vehicle.
2. Europe and USA get everything the other gets. 
3. Prices lowered due to lack of need for R&D for a few years at least, due to frenzy over all the sweet new offerings using the same hardware.
4. Give us special models like the TDI Cup car for a price well under $30k. Just about everything on the VW Racing cars is street legal in most places. 
BTW- I want one just like this STUDIE R, plz --- but in TDI Cup specs


_Modified by myvwisfast at 3:10 PM 12-15-2008_


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (vr6gtispeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jamie* »_
Since the Scirocco is really just a sportier GTI, there is the very real possibility that it could cannibalize GTI sales. VW would likely position the Scirocco at a starting price north of $30k to distance it from the GTI *which puts it on shaky ground. Selling the Scirocco at a price point potentially $10,000 more expensive than a MazdaSpeed 3 is a very tough proposition.* I'd like to see cool stuff like the Scirocco as much as anyone else, but I also want a car like this to be *successful* ...

So, I just don't buy into the "cannibalizing" theory for this one - (1), because these cars are quite different; (2), because the GTI has a much lower starting price; and (3), because there is also the 4-door GTI which sold very well.
But I agree with the other sentiment, and just don't see this car approach any useful sales numbers north of $30,000 (since it does not have AWD, and may not even have DCC in the US, either). I already mentioned what IMO it should or shouldn't have to be a competitive package, above, so I leave it at that.
There is no way one can make an argument that VW is a luxury company - whether here or anyplace else in the world. Even Audi is not yet fully accepted as a tier-1 luxury car maker, in the US (while it is on equal footing with BMW and Mercedes, in Germany).
However, one can argue that VW produces some cars that when fully optioned out approach the entry-level luxury category (CC, Tiguan, Touareg). 
Since it was brought up, a FWD A3 (which has 4 doors and 5 seats) starts below $27K. True, the TT-S starts at $45K, but it has AWD, an aluminum-based chassis very much unlike the Scirocco, and is a Porsche contender and in a completely different league.


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## curvedinfinity (Oct 11, 2004)

*Re: (vr6gtispeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *curvedinfinity* »_VW is *essentially* a luxury brand without the stigma.


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6gtispeed* »_I've been to Europe and Germany a number of times. I've visited the Autostadt and a factory tour back in 2006. I know where I see them and it's not a luxury brand.

In the terms you put it, I guess you agree with me.


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## vr6gtispeed (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (curvedinfinity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *curvedinfinity* »_In the terms you put it, I guess you agree with me.

I'm not saying VWs are not nice cars because they are. I don't put them with BMW, MB and Lexus. I own a 2004 R32 that leaked water after a year of owning it. With problems like that and other quality issues I read about all the time, they are far from being a luxury brand.


----------



## greenhumanjames (Dec 15, 2008)

i really hope that they bring it to the u.s.a market, its just looks evil, one hell of a mean front end that looks like is going to eat you up and spit you out. love the hood to. very different but i like it alot. i would hope that it would be awd but if it is only for sure coming in front i still dont think it sway my mind but i would seal the deal for me even more. but all an all volkswagen did a good job on it in my book.


----------



## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (vr6gtispeed)*

Here is another car a $30,000+ FWD Scirocco would have to compete with - clearly unsuccessfully so.


----------



## EyeDoughnutNo (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: (feels_road)*

I'll withhold judgment on the Z-car vs. Scirocco argument for a real comparison test.
Reading EVO magazine's sports car of the year thing (I think it was EVO magazine..maybe it was Performance Car) shows just how good the Scirocco is. It beat out quite a few juggernauts, which surprised me quite a bit. The car must be a blast to drive. This R model can only prove better.


----------



## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (EyeDoughnutNo)*

Fair enough. Meanwhile, you can read this for fun:
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/f...shtml


----------



## G60ed777 (Sep 27, 2004)

*Re: (feels_road)*

I can only shake my head that its only front wheel drive ...making the same mistake from the past cough cough Corrado maybe they are waiting to do an AWD when If they bring back VWs best ...the Corrado if ever ....
I still give it a big http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif up for the effort for making some steps in the right direction....


----------



## mr lee (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: (G60ed777)*

if it doesn't make 400whp, AWD, 7spd, delivered to my house with hookers & blow for under $20,000... I'm not buying one.


----------



## xgarage (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (mr lee)*

try asking Santa for that

_Quote, originally posted by *mr lee* »_if it doesn't make 400whp, AWD, 7spd, delivered to my house with hookers & blow for under $20,000... I'm not buying one.


----------



## EyeDoughnutNo (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: (feels_road)*


_Quote, originally posted by *feels_road* »_Fair enough. Meanwhile, you can read this for fun:
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/f...shtml









Good read. I do think it's funny how everyone is trying this whole one-upper approach, though. haha..
Z vs. R should be interesting...


----------



## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

*Re: (curvedinfinity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *curvedinfinity* »_
I hear the 200hp Audi A3 sells for $30-40k (I just configured a FWD one for $39,125). This Scirocco is considerably better than an A3 in the performance ways. It also has all of the goodies, and an interior that is just as nice. I don't know what crack pipe people smoke, but VW is essentially a luxury plate without the stigma attached.
$35k for the 265hp motor, LSD, DCC, and _all the other stuff a Volkswagen comes with, that no other non-luxury brand sells_ is perfectly fair. For practically the same thing except in Audi form (the TT-S), you'd be paying almost $50,000.

Keep in mind that VW as a luxury plate is a completely failed idea. True, they make great cars for the money, but I hope they never try WR8 Passats or the idea born from many, many long nights of crack smoking, the Phaeton, ever again. Stupid ideas, dealers hated em, no resale value. Phaetons can be had stupid cheap, but they have a very high cost of ownership. The drug lords around here are starting to drive them now.
VW has several sweet spots, the economic Polo (which we don't get) and Rabbit, a great sports hatch - GTI, a great small sedan - Jetta, a great family sedan - Passat. Each is a class leader. They should strengthen and maintain those areas. 
The Scirocco could definitely fill a niche at somewhere around $30k I believe. I don't think $35k VW's will sell well due to all the other competition in that range. Competing with STI's etc, is a dumb idea, those cars are ricers built for rice kids, dopers and maniacs. At 30k, with a real LSD, FWD, and the S3 motor, this car would be a contender. Forget AWD, it isn't necessary and makes the car heavy and expensive. Given that VW also has 4 more models contending for showroom space (the Tig, CC, Jetta sportwagen and the new minivan), perhaps forget another R32, or at least bring it over here in a more desirable model - 6sp with 4dr would be much more enticing. I'd almost rather see the next R model Golf be a GTI with AWD and the S3 motor, rather than the 3.2 again.


----------



## mr lee (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: (xgarage)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xgarage* »_try asking Santa for that


Santa isn't real


----------



## Teedubya (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: (mr lee)*

I posted earlier about how I thought this needed a little more performance to make it a little more competitive in the $35k price (pretty common suggestions like everyone else, AWD + 300hp). I've read through some of the posts and see some good thinking there. It even made me consider that maybe there is an opportunity for things to go in a different direction (think Lotus Exige instead of Nissan Skyline). As a question to other posters:
Assuming the car has FWD, what other other tradeoffs could be made (think suspension and weight reduction and possibly transmission) to make the car perform better with the given powerplant options? Is there any hope people want something that overall will probably be (if I can borrow Corrado terminology) more sports and less luxury? Should VW try to save on some frills and make this into a more lightweight, nimble, purer sports car (but with FWD, the powerplant options VW is set up for, and a price around 30k)?


_Modified by Teedubya at 4:34 PM 12-16-2008_


----------



## EyeDoughnutNo (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: (mr lee)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mr lee* »_
Santa isn't real








<-- This actually looks kinda like the Scirocco.. hehe. http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


----------



## 20th875 (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: (Teedubya)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Teedubya* »_I posted earlier about how I thought this needed a little more performance to make it a little more competitive in the $35k price (pretty common suggestions like everyone else, AWD + 300hp). I've read through some of the posts and see some good thinking there. It even made me consider that maybe there is an opportunity for things to go in a different direction (think Lotus Exige instead of Nissan Skyline). As a question to other posters:
Assuming the car has FWD, what other other tradeoffs could be made (think suspension and weight reduction and possibly transmission) to make the car perform better with the given powerplant options? Is there any hope people want something that overall will probably be (if I can borrow Corrado terminology) more sports and less luxury? Should VW try to save on some frills and* make this into a more lightweight, nimble, purer sports car* (but with FWD, the powerplant options VW is set up for, and a price around 30k)?

_Modified by Teedubya at 4:34 PM 12-16-2008_

See my bold above. If VW did that, plus AWD, I'd bite. If a car has significant power, but can't put it down, the power is maybe not useless, but is not served well either. Two wheels, and especially FWD, just aren't a real solution to the power that most want to come in a car like this. VW can do AWD, pretty well actually. So do it in the performance offerings, like so many of us are asking for.
Somebody mentioned that Sti's and Evo's are for ricers and other uncalled-for names. Actually they are for those that want a truly nice-handling car. That's why they are both sucesses. VW should learn from this as well as the MKV R32. I hope they do.


----------



## MEISTER (Nov 6, 2000)

*Re: (Teedubya)*

If VW brings the Scirocco R to the US, This will be my next car. If they don't I'll wait patiently until something cooler comes.


----------



## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: (20th875)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20th875* »_
See my bold above. If VW did that, plus AWD, I'd bite. If a car has significant power, but can't put it down, the power is maybe not useless, but is not served well either. Two wheels, and especially FWD, just aren't a real solution to the power that most want to come in a car like this. VW can do AWD, pretty well actually. So do it in the performance offerings, like so many of us are asking for.
Somebody mentioned that Sti's and Evo's are for ricers and other uncalled-for names. Actually they are for those that want a truly nice-handling car. That's why they are both sucesses. VW should learn from this as well as the MKV R32. I hope they do.

I dont agree with you at all... A stage 1 fwd Gti beat easily a Wrx on the 1/4 milles and a stock Gti beat easily a Wrx on the track. With a good set up( good suspension, good tire, good motor mount, a proper lsd electronic or mechanical) you can manage easily 350 hp on a FWD. Many people drive FWD with 350whp. I am on stage 2 and I have no torque steer. 
Also FWD is good in the snow, not as good as AWD but light years ahead then RWD.
Also Awd is costly, we are lucky to have the S3 engine in this so if the only way to make this car a marketing success(keep the price tag competitive) I can easily accept a FWD.
Awd is heavy and it eat a lot of power between crank and wheel. 270hp with AWD is not enough( the R32 is the proof). To be comparable to a proper tuned FWD 265hp car you need at less a 310 hp AWD car. then chip the S3 FWD scirocco too 340 hp and you then need a 390 hp car to be comparable....



_Modified by jeff2.0t at 6:23 AM 12-17-2008_


----------



## lschw1 (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

No matter the level of power, for thirty-five years I have driven VWs because of the control and satisfaction from driving their manual transmissions. Since VW no longer provides manual transmissions with their US bound R models, and I am not about to change, this Scirocco interests me about as much as a Beetle with an automatic.


----------



## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (lschw1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lschw1* »_No matter the level of power, for thirty-five years I have driven VWs because of the control and satisfaction from driving their manual transmissions. Since VW no longer provides manual transmissions with their US bound R models, and I am not about to change, this Scirocco interests me about as much as a Beetle with an automatic.

IMO it is too soon to make conclusion about the transmission, they could offer a DSG in option, the factory have the flexibility to do this. They cant give AWD in option but DSG or Manual is not impossible, it could be the only option however since the model is limited.


----------



## improvius (Mar 6, 2001)

*Re: (MEISTER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MEISTER* »_If VW brings the Scirocco R to the US, This will be my next car. If they don't I'll wait patiently until something cooler comes.









This or the Mito GTA.


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 27, 2003)

I LOVE IT! - HOW much $$$$ sign me up, I'll buy one I promise. Did I mention I love it??








Seriously though, nice looking car, I think it would sell well in Canada, I think on a percentage basis Canada buys more VW's per person than that of the States, so bring it here please. I even like the spoiler... not to big IMO, and I usually don't like spoilers on hatches. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by [email protected] at 7:55 PM 12-17-2008_


----------



## Originaldub72 (May 22, 2006)

*Re: (20th875)*

Wow. This Forum on the Scirrocco R is all over the place. I can see why a car manufacture has such a hard time making a decision on a platform...especially niche platforms. You have people with or without experience voicing there opinion on what they think they should bring over here to the US. From reading all the posts, there seems to be a varied opinion on what "performance" is and what is the best platform to deliver it on. Then they "peel the onion" further with a number of specific options and details it should be packaged into. Guys please, think about how VW introduced this car. The car is a performance car, no question about it. They raced the car as part of the introduction and it did very well among all the high power machinery there at the Nurburgring. All wheel drive, front wheel drive & rear wheel drive in mixed weather conditions and the car did just fine. Yes to compete with the Mitsu's and STI's the car will need just some minor part and setup mixed into the chassis to do well but they have offered that at the dealers in the UK. Honestly, it would need a clutch pack diff or wavetech diff and shock/spring/ alignment package to take advantage of it fully. If they want it to be really special and compete against the Japanese target market, go ahead and lighten it up a bit with some weight savings.
AWD??? The price to install it vs. the benifit is lop-sided and makes no fiscal sense. There has already been some previous posts about this so they've proved FWD and keep up with the RWD and AWD platforms.
Manual vs. DSG??? I bought a MKV GTI with a manual when they first offered the GTI to the US. I couldn't find, at the time, any real reliability #'s especially when it came to HP increases or track day work. Now that info does exsist, I would buy a DSG equipped car.
How can you people say you want performance but want a manually equipped car? DSG is the performance answer. What?? Your reply is going to be, "Well, it doesn't feel right....or it's not real performance car this type of gear box.....blah blah" VW nor any car manufacture can please person with this mindset and still meet a specific price point. If you can offer one gearbox instead of two, that is a nice saving for the manufacture.
I don't know VWofA. You got a tough set of people to crack here. I say bring the car with the learning of the TDI cup parts and offer both gearboxes so the nonsense whiners can make sense of what they "feel" is real performance.


----------



## groupracer (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (lschw1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lschw1* »_No matter the level of power, for thirty-five years I have driven VWs because of the control and satisfaction from driving their manual transmissions. Since VW no longer provides manual transmissions with their US bound R models, and I am not about to change, this Scirocco interests me about as much as a Beetle with an automatic.

amen


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## MKV.RABBIT (Jun 18, 2007)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (groupracer)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BuPsychBass (Jan 23, 2008)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (MKV.RABBIT)*

I am 24, not old, not seasoned, not even remotely wise. Until about 5 months ago I had always had automatic transmissions, always. Reasons for doing so, I grew up in a household where there was no standard transmission to be found. The truth in my situation is that, this is overwhelmingly the case in American households--there just simply aren't stick shifts to learn on. 
Now... why do I bring this up? Like I said, my auto-leaning tendencies were broken when I bought a 99 Golf IV. Not a performance piece, not even close. But, what I will say is, now I truly enjoy driving. I love being behind the wheel of a car that has 3 pedals, even if the horses pulling me along are modest. 
I am sure, to some extent I am preaching to the choir. But there is just something basic and thrilling about truly being connected to the engine you're driving. That being said I really, really love the styling of this car. LOVE it. I just can't see myself driving this car without a standard transmission, performance hindrances aside. 
But... my recent conversion now puts me perilously in the minority... and... in this economic climate VW has to provide a product that will appeal to those who will keep them afloat in this country... vanilla, auto-driving, Detroit and Japan buying American drivers. 
I just hope that VW doesn't forget manual enthusiasts, new and old alike, as the company moves forward with models like this. Not that its coming to America anyways. 


_Modified by BuPsychBass at 11:18 PM 12-17-2008_


----------



## reflexsgolf (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (BuPsychBass)*

every dang perfect european car we want here, we cant get.








dang it


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (lschw1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lschw1* »_No matter the level of power, for thirty-five years I have driven VWs because of the control and satisfaction from driving their manual transmissions. *Since VW no longer provides manual transmissions with their US bound R models*, and I am not about to change, this Scirocco interests me about as much as a Beetle with an automatic.
 

That is an assumption based on a single car release, not a fact. 
The second assumption is that an US-bound Scirocco would be or would be called an "R" model.


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_I dont agree with you at all... A stage 1 fwd Gti beat easily a Wrx on the 1/4 milles and a stock Gti beat easily a Wrx on the track. With a good set up( good suspension, good tire, good motor mount, a proper lsd electronic or mechanical) you can manage easily 350 hp on a FWD. Many people drive FWD with 350whp. I am on stage 2 and I have no torque steer. 

Since when do our cars get into the 12s with an intake, chip, and exhaust like a WRX?







You are comparing modified vs stock. This model is supposed to be the ".:R Scirocco" according to the title - and I assume it would be competing (badly) against the other REAL sporty cars.
FWD is freaking lame. I have FWD - so I'm not talking high and mighty here at all... (FWD and around 450-500WHP to boot) but anything over 287WHP (exactly where I dyno'd 3 years ago w/stage 2 VF and a peloquin LSD) is really pointless to drive. First and second were 100% useless. Try that in an .:R32 or any AWD car. The difference in power delivery is CRAZY.
I understand from a stock point of view FWD is fine - but for a performance enthusiast - it's the worst platform available. 
...what I wouldn't do for AWD...











_Modified by MeiK at 8:06 AM 12-18-2008_


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## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: (MeiK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MeiK* »_
FWD is freaking lame. I have FWD - so I'm not talking high and mighty here at all... (FWD and around 450-500WHP to boot) but anything over 287WHP (exactly where I dyno'd 3 years ago w/stage 2 VF and a peloquin LSD) is really pointless to drive. First and second were 100% useless. Try that in an .:R32 or any AWD car. The difference in power delivery is CRAZY.
I understand from a stock point of view FWD is fine - but for a performance enthusiast - it's the worst platform available. 
...what I wouldn't do for AWD...









_Modified by MeiK at 8:06 AM 12-18-2008_

I agree... for anything north of $30K this will die.
Why buy this if for a few more $$ you can get a 135i?


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## vr6gtispeed (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (XM_Rocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *XM_Rocks* »_
I agree... for anything north of $30K this will die.
Why buy this if for a few more $$ you can get a 135i?

or the new 370Z with 337hp for about the same price. If VW offers DSG only for all new cars, I guess I'll have to jump ship.


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## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (lschw1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lschw1* »_No matter the level of power, for thirty-five years I have driven VWs because of the control and satisfaction from driving their manual transmissions. *Since VW no longer provides manual transmissions with their US bound R models*, and I am not about to change, this Scirocco interests me about as much as a Beetle with an automatic.

12 post = YOU ARE WRONG!! 
The new scirocco will come in a 6-speed!! End of discussion..


----------



## 29_MALE_SOCAL_SPICY (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Craige-O)*

all you FWD people kill me..


----------



## sdpauly (Apr 4, 2004)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (29_MALE_SOCAL_SPICY)*

I really think they do need to offer something that competes with the STI's and EVO's out of the box. The Evo X MR has an msrp sticker of $42k and a fully loaded 2009 STI is right around $40k as well. Sure, there are some big differences, both the STI and Evo are 4-door cars, one is a sedan and the other is technically a wagon, but this is the competition in mid-range performance imports. So, that's your price range, outperform Evo/STI for under 40k with the interior finish and feel that we all love about VW's and you've got a winner.
Why does VW think they can sell an enthusiast car in that price range and simply ignore the competition? I'll tell you this, your customers are not ignoring the competition. I love my Mk IV R32, it is a blast to drive, though I wish it came with more power.
So, that's what I want, an upgrade from the MK IV R32, AWD, more power, something that will outperform STI's and Evo's stock for stock. Otherwise, my next car will probably be one of those... probably the STI, I do like the looks of that one and I don't trust 'glass tranny' Mitsu's at all.
just some thoughts if anyone from VW is paying attention to this thread: most people here are asking for basically the same thing, you should take note.


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## curvedinfinity (Oct 11, 2004)

*Re: (MeiK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MeiK* »_
Since when do our cars get into the 12s with an intake, chip, and exhaust like a WRX?







You are comparing modified vs stock. This model is supposed to be the ".:R Scirocco" according to the title - and I assume it would be competing (badly) against the other REAL sporty cars.
FWD is freaking lame. I have FWD - so I'm not talking high and mighty here at all... (FWD and around 450-500WHP to boot) but anything over 287WHP (exactly where I dyno'd 3 years ago w/stage 2 VF and a peloquin LSD) is really pointless to drive. First and second were 100% useless. Try that in an .:R32 or any AWD car. The difference in power delivery is CRAZY.
I understand from a stock point of view FWD is fine - but for a performance enthusiast - it's the worst platform available. 
...what I wouldn't do for AWD...









_Modified by MeiK at 8:06 AM 12-18-2008_

Just to point it out, the A5 platform is better at putting down power than the A4.
Also, there is a different camp of "performance enthusiasts" than the one you come from that is focused on road circuit racing, not drag racing. Sure, FWD sucks balls in drag racing, but in circuit racing, its very decent.
Lastly, the Scirocco weighs less than a Cayman S. People are totally not considering just how light it is. Even 350 hp through fwd would be balanced on this car.


_Modified by curvedinfinity at 5:57 PM 12-18-2008_


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: (XM_Rocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *XM_Rocks* »_
I agree... for anything north of $30K this will die.
Why buy this if for a few more $$ you can get a 135i?

The 135i is not that cheap... Paint have an extra, extra this extra that.
Also the 135i is a RWD, it suck in the snow, nobody who lives in a snow area want a RWD.
The STi and Evo is the bigest competition with the AWD.


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## VrstewartW (Mar 14, 2005)

*Re: (EyeDoughnutNo)*

Ill decide if Im going to trade in my rabbit once I hear official price info, if its actually coming to the US, after a test drive, and has to have 3 pedals


----------



## Irrelevant_Username (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: (Teedubya)*

270hp and no AWD? Useless. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (Irrelevant_Username)*

Here is another $32k (258ft-lbs @1500-4200rpm) AWD car I would buy over a $30k+ FWD Scirocco.


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (curvedinfinity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *curvedinfinity* »_Also, there is a different camp of "performance enthusiasts" than the one you come from that is focused on road circuit racing, not drag racing. Sure, FWD sucks balls in drag racing, but in circuit racing, its very decent.


Like you said - "FWD is very decent"... But AWD is better in almost every case. Esp when discussing performance.







(circuit racing included)
Europe got AWD MKIVS as an option. Does VW really think we wouldn't pay the extra few grand for that option?!?!?!


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: (feels_road)*


_Quote, originally posted by *feels_road* »_ Here is another $32k (258ft-lbs @1500-4200rpm) AWD car I would buy over a $30k+ FWD Scirocco.























Not in the same league at all.
The A4 is a big porky "bourgeois" car not a sport car.
The scirocco is a sport car witout compromise, it is not a grocery getter, a familly car or a rolling saloon.


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## gli87jetta (Nov 26, 2001)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*

Wow, finally finished reading this whole thread! Quite the variation in opinions on this one! I'm a hard-core VDUB enthusiast and loved my old 88 Turbo Rocco I used to own even though it was a PITA. I don't quite know where I stand in regards to the AWD vs FWD argument but I'll agree they should offer both flavors if it was possible. However, as mentioned this probably wouldn't be feasible given the extra development cost. I'm not really sure I can agree that they should be putting this against the boy-***** STI and EVO. Granted the new STI isn't so boy-racer looking it still list for about $39K on Subarus website. And, the EVO is also about 39+K so I don't see why so man people are comparing this to the new Scirocco. One of the main arguments for me is the gas efficiency of this car vs the STI/EVO. The EVO MR gets terrible gas mileage! Granted gas has dropped tremendously over the last few months I would never buy a car that didn't get a least 20MPG given the fact that the gas scammers might bend us back over again. 
I will agree that they should do a 6speed version because it seems like it might be kinda boring driving it with DSG. I'm a manual guy myself and probably wouldn't consider this car in DSG form. I think everybody here can see the Scirocco spirit is alive and well and the design of this car is very nice! Either way, I hope it makes it was to the states before the world is over.


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_Not in the same league at all.
The A4 is a big porky "bourgeois" car not a sport car.
The scirocco is a sport car witout compromise, it is not a grocery getter, a familly car or a rolling saloon. 

If the Scirocco were a sports car without compromise, it would not have 4 seats, but it would have RWD, or at least AWD.
And, have you driven the new A4 quattro manual with the new engine? Well, I am sure you haven't, because it is not at the dealers, yet... It is listed conservatively at 6.6s 0-100km/h - the Scirocco is listed at 7.2.








At any rate, of course you are correct, they are quite different in many ways, but for some people there is sufficient overlap that they would cross-shop them if at approximately the same price. I know I would. http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


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## gli87jetta (Nov 26, 2001)

*Re: (feels_road)*

One of the other things I was kinda perplexed about is the cars Italian design colors. Is it because VW owns Lamborghini or something?


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (gli87jetta)*

in response to gli87jetta's post - I correct me if I'm wrong here - but I'm pretty sure it's built on the MKV chassis which is available with AWD in europe... So cost of AWD wouldn't be too crazy.


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: (MeiK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MeiK* »_in response to gli87jetta's post - I correct me if I'm wrong here - but I'm pretty sure it's built on the MKV chassis which is available with AWD in europe... So cost of AWD wouldn't be too crazy.









The scirocco is made in Portugal, this factory cant produce AWD. So dont dream about it, it wont be AWD.


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## Darth-Vento (Mar 16, 2006)

this is a simple fix.......give it at leas 300hp and awd. no one is gonna pay 30k for a fwd car....that is just stupid.  make sure the car comes in both dsg and stick. the reason why the new r32 failed epiclly is because they were stupid and just made it dsg. have 2 trim engines a vr and a four cylinder turbo. and have the BASE model start off at the price of the top end gti. so it is reasonable. 
its that simple VWoA stop being a bunch of stupid idiots and do what the people want!


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (Darth-Vento)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Darth-Vento* »_...the reason why the new r32 failed epiclly ...

Why do people keep saying that?







It has basically sold out. Sure, you could get it at a discount the past half year, or so. But that was in a quickly deteriorating market, in which most other cars saw much steeper discounts than the R32.
And I am saying this although DSG was the number one reason I did not buy one (lack of 4 doors, the other).


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (MeiK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MeiK* »_ I correct me if I'm wrong here - but I'm pretty sure it's built on the MKV chassis which is available with AWD in europe... So cost of AWD wouldn't be too crazy.









It is a _modified_ MkV platform - it has a different track front and rear, and a different suspension. It's hard enough to come up with a configuration for the US that would sell and could be sold at an acceptable price. Adding the development cost of an AWD series to that would be outrageously expensive, let alone the cost to change the Portugal assembly line so that it can produce AWD cars.
Remember, the US is still a negligibly small market for VW, and a very difficult one for any manufacturer (see domestic troubles).


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## Originaldub72 (May 22, 2006)

*Re: (MeiK)*

I'll go one better...it's an awesome platform! AWD is not better in almost every case. FWD has shrunk the gap to RWD/AWD to nothing.
Yea, Circuit Racing. Uh you know, the very type of racing they used to introduce the the car were talking about. They very cars that competed against RWD & AWD plateforms with 400 to 600+ horse power did very well against them. Go pick up this month's issue of EVO magazine. Read how the the little Renault R26R Beat up all the real world cars including Subaru with Prodrive mods. Ha! The mitsu didn't even make it to the contest. VW bring the car, get rid of that E-diff and put a mechanical diff. We'll buy it...trust us.


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## Darth-Vento (Mar 16, 2006)

*Re: (feels_road)*

i mean i was totally ready to buy the new r32 but when i found out that it wasnt in stick or had an option as stick....total turn off.....and i figure thats why it wasnt very popular. now if this new scirocco had that awd then it be considered as a sports car and ****.......idk........in my mind vwoa is messing up.....


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

Limited supply is key. Using this car as a model for people is the key.
Honda can sell a ton of great cars because they focus in on making a base model that is price effective and fuel efficient. Young people come along and buy to build... but in reality the market is not in speed performance. The market IS in reliability and economically driven vehicles.


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## Space9888 (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_Limited supply is key. Using this car as a model for people is the key.
Honda can sell a ton of great cars because they focus in on making a base model that is price effective and fuel efficient. Young people come along and buy to build... but in reality the market is not in speed performance. The market IS in reliability and economically driven vehicles.

IMO scirocco is a nice sport coupe but....
Scirocco should outperform all competitors in various markets and i mean new and used markets in the past 5 years to present, why not set the standard? 
it should be able to outperform(in no specific order)Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution, Dodge Neon Srt-4, Cobalt SS turbo,saturn sky turbo,pontiac solstice turbo, Mazda 3 speed turbo,Subaru STI, Honda S2000 ford mustang, ect. ect. 
why do i say this? the above cars are fast reliable and affordable and many of them have *factory upgrade options*
IMO Volkswagen could market against all the competition with the added German luxury and engineering and reliability with a lucrative profit margin with a wider production other than a 5,000 unit niche. 
VW have the resources to do this, all they have to do is get into a state like Tennessee where they could get there ass kissed like the boat manufacturers (tax write offs). It could be like Brazil, Mexico and every other place Volkswagen makes vehicles except it would benefit those around you. 




_Modified by Space9888 at 11:47 PM 12-23-2008_


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## 20th875 (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: (Space9888)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Space9888* »_
IMO scirocco is a nice sport coupe but....
Scirocco should outperform all competitors in various markets and i mean new and used markets in the past 5 years to present, why not set the standard? 
it should be able to outperform(in no specific order)Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution, Dodge Neon Srt-4, Cobalt SS turbo,saturn sky turbo,pontiac solstice turbo, Mazda 3 speed turbo,Subaru STI, Honda S2000 ford mustang, ect. ect. 
why do i say this? the above cars are fast reliable and affordable and many of them have *factory upgrade options*
IMO Volkswagen could market against all the competition with the added German luxury and engineering and reliability with a lucrative profit margin with a wider production other than a 5,000 unit niche. 
VW have the resources to do this, all they have to do is get into a state like Tennessee where they could get there ass kissed like the boat manufacturers (tax write offs). It could be like Brazil, Mexico and every other place Volkswagen makes vehicles except it would benefit those around you. 
_Modified by Space9888 at 11:47 PM 12-23-2008_

I don't know how feasible this is, but it sure sounds good.


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## peteyp1224 (Aug 10, 2008)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

SO your telling me VW finally came out with a car that is in the same league as the EVO and STI and you morons arent going to bring it to the US What a shame for VW..... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## CorradoMagic (Apr 11, 2008)

^ but w/o AWD, its not in the same league. Thats just it. Yes they are more $$ & probably not built/finsihed as well as VW's(debatable).... but they currently do offer superior performance.(not debatable)
For some, perfomance can justify a few trade-offs like fit & finish. And honestly, the new EVO & STI w/ MOMO accents, Recaros, Brembos, BBS, etc arent too shabby.
(yeah, so the plastics are so 'soft touch' & gaps may be too wide & the sheet metal may be 'tinny', but performance/quality parts & chart numbers can do a lot in swaying ones purchase)
Believe me, I am diehard VAG, but VW needs to get with it & step up their game performance wise. 
Nice performing FWD models w/ fit & finsih approaching BMW, interiors near Audi like(just about the best there is IMO) but dealer network service of YUGO and performance of Toyota doesnt make them the automotive leader they want to be.
It also doesnt make enthusiasts or the mass market want to buy their models.
VW is different & always should be, but dont let 'different' or 'euro' make it a reason for not performing.
VW, Buyers want more off the lot performance than what the GTI offers, a lot of buyers want more than what the aftermarket can do. We, the enthusiasts and buyers want to be able to get a vehicle that competes with the offerings like EVO, STI/WRX, Speed3 & others mentioned here. 
I think buyers will pay a slight premium for the quality but only if the car delivers. 
Delivering means 6spd & AWD offerings w/ performance close to the competition. Preferably in a turbo applicatin that can be adapted to grow. 
Heavy, DSG MKV R's w/ plain styling & Polo seats is not the answer.
The Scirocco is the right step in terms of design & styling, but unless the power &/or AWD is available, I dont see it doing much better than the past R. (espesially if it is $4-5G more than a GTI)
Min. 265hp if only FWD
Must have 6spd as option
A real LSD & brakes
must be less $ than a comparable A3
Will sell like hotcakes if offered in AWD & turbo w/ 6spd for near MKV R pricing, or even $2-3G more. 



_Modified by CorradoMagic at 8:48 PM 12-25-2008_


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: (CorradoMagic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoMagic* »_^
Nice performing FWD models w/ fit & finsih approaching BMW, interiors near Audi like(just about the best there is IMO) but dealer network service of YUGO and performance of Toyota doesnt make them the automotive leader they want to be.
It also doesnt make enthusiasts or the mass market want to buy their models.

_Modified by CorradoMagic at 8:48 PM 12-25-2008_

What are you talking about...
Toyota performance...
I did test drive a Bmw 330xi and trust me I take my Gti as for performance any day over the 330xi and I dont think any Toyota come close to a Bmw ... Stock for Stock I still preffer a Gti over a 330xi. The 2.0T, like the S3 version is a strong performance engine, the power band and flow is way better than any top rated 6 cyl engine (Bmw, merc, infiniti, lexus) and is able to match the unrefined and agricultural 2.5l subies engine.
A light 2.0T 265 hp, with the proper set up can rip up an Sti anyday. My car make 219 whp and 239wtq and I eat up Wrx and a Sti can barely follow me on highway. Those AWd ***** have no juice and are out of steam after 3rd gear. I will maybe loose on track against an STI but I have no doubt that a better chassis like the scirocco (lower, lighter, larger), with a Lsd and the S3 engine can eat an Sti on track. A 35hp difference with a heavy AWD is nothing, this scirocco probably cut close to 300kg vs an Sti.



_Modified by jeff2.0t at 10:20 PM 12-25-2008_


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (CorradoMagic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoMagic* »_^ but w/o AWD, its not in the same league. Thats just it. Yes they are more $$ & probably not built/finsihed as well as VW's(debatable).... but they currently do offer superior performance.(not debatable)
For some, perfomance can justify a few trade-offs like fit & finish. And honestly, the new EVO & STI w/ MOMO accents, Recaros, Brembos, BBS, etc arent too shabby.
(yeah, so the plastics are so 'soft touch' & gaps may be too wide & the sheet metal may be 'tinny', but performance/quality parts & chart numbers can do a lot in swaying ones purchase)
Believe me, I am diehard VAG, but VW needs to get with it & step up their game performance wise. 
Nice performing FWD models w/ fit & finsih approaching BMW, interiors near Audi like(just about the best there is IMO) but dealer network service of YUGO and performance of Toyota doesnt make them the automotive leader they want to be.
It also doesnt make enthusiasts or the mass market want to buy their models.
VW is different & always should be, but dont let 'different' or 'euro' make it a reason for not performing.
VW, Buyers want more off the lot performance than what the GTI offers, a lot of buyers want more than what the aftermarket can do. We, the enthusiasts and buyers want to be able to get a vehicle that competes with the offerings like EVO, STI/WRX, Speed3 & others mentioned here. 
I think buyers will pay a slight premium for the quality but only if the car delivers. 
Delivering means 6spd & AWD offerings w/ performance close to the competition. Preferably in a turbo applicatin that can be adapted to grow. 
Heavy, DSG MKV R's w/ plain styling & Polo seats is not the answer.
The Scirocco is the right step in terms of design & styling, but unless the power &/or AWD is available, I dont see it doing much better than the past R. (espesially if it is $4-5G more than a GTI)
Min. 265hp if only FWD
Must have 6spd as option
A real LSD & brakes
must be less $ than a comparable A3
Will sell like hotcakes if offered in AWD & turbo w/ 6spd for near MKV R pricing, or even $2-3G more. 

^^^ Well said.

_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_A light 2.0T 265 hp, with the proper set up can rip up an Sti anyday. My car make 219 whp and 239wtq and I eat up Wrx and a Sti can barely follow me on highway. 

Funny. Oh wait you are serious? Ok yeah so that's a modified MKV vs a STOCK STI. I toyed with one a few years ago that was chipped w/a FMIC (stock exhaust) and I HUNG with it @ 287WHP.







They are without a doubt in a different league than a GTI - thinking otherwise is silly.








As I've said - a few boltons on a STI and the car is CRAZY. (12.xx 1/4mi) Even with around 500WHP - I wouldn't go up against an STI without sweating a bit.







Crazy cars. I'm talking performance here btw... As far as everything else goes - VW is on it's mark. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You also mentioned a BMW 330 - Why not mention the 335 instead since that's just barely outside the price range of this scirocco - and is BMW's moderately "performance" oriented 3 series... And will brutally out perform the scirocco.
I just think they've come so close with this car... One last little detail (AWD) would finish it off to be a truly KNOWN sports car.










_Modified by MeiK at 8:05 AM 12-26-2008_


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## Space9888 (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: (CorradoMagic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoMagic* »_^ but w/o AWD, its not in the same league. Thats just it. Yes they are more $$ & probably not built/finsihed as well as VW's(debatable).... but they currently do offer superior performance.(not debatable)
For some, perfomance can justify a few trade-offs like fit & finish. And honestly, the new EVO & STI w/ MOMO accents, Recaros, Brembos, BBS, etc arent too shabby.
(yeah, so the plastics are so 'soft touch' & gaps may be too wide & the sheet metal may be 'tinny', but performance/quality parts & chart numbers can do a lot in swaying ones purchase)
Believe me, I am diehard VAG, but VW needs to get with it & step up their game performance wise. 
Nice performing FWD models w/ fit & finsih approaching BMW, interiors near Audi like(just about the best there is IMO) but dealer network service of YUGO and performance of Toyota doesnt make them the automotive leader they want to be.
It also doesnt make enthusiasts or the mass market want to buy their models.
VW is different & always should be, but dont let 'different' or 'euro' make it a reason for not performing.
VW, Buyers want more off the lot performance than what the GTI offers, a lot of buyers want more than what the aftermarket can do. We, the enthusiasts and buyers want to be able to get a vehicle that competes with the offerings like EVO, STI/WRX, Speed3 & others mentioned here. 
I think buyers will pay a slight premium for the quality but only if the car delivers. 
Delivering means 6spd & AWD offerings w/ performance close to the competition. Preferably in a turbo applicatin that can be adapted to grow. 
Heavy, DSG MKV R's w/ plain styling & Polo seats is not the answer.
The Scirocco is the right step in terms of design & styling, but unless the power &/or AWD is available, I dont see it doing much better than the past R. (espesially if it is $4-5G more than a GTI)
Min. 265hp if only FWD
Must have 6spd as option
A real LSD & brakes
must be less $ than a comparable A3
Will sell like hotcakes if offered in AWD & turbo w/ 6spd for near MKV R pricing, or even $2-3G more. 
_Modified by CorradoMagic at 8:48 PM 12-25-2008_


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EyeDoughnutNo (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: (MeiK)*








I just want an awesome, affordable, good looking, non-Japanese awd car. Is that too much to ask for?








That must be why so many of these guys are building them themselves.


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## GeoffB (Mar 16, 2006)

I read this thread the other night and it seems the same things keep cropping up.
1)265bhp FWD won't work well, funny that as UK forums and forums in europe are all flooded with edition30/pirelli owners running chipped cars with 300+bhp & 300+lb.ft torque and there not all complaining and thats much more than a stock 265/260 S3 engine has.
2)It won't rival evos and STIs, I don't know if you guys get the same spec we do but if you do have you guys actually owned one? or driven one for any length of time in the real world? I have and there so hard ridding and noisy/unrefined. With power deliver and turbo lag in huge amounts it gets very frustrating. Great track cars or weekend cars but as a daily driver or long distance car they are dreadfull. Were as a VW is a compromise that does everything, i guess you could say jack of all trades master of non.
Can a 265bhp VW product compete on performance with an evo & STI ,yes it can autoexpress a few months ago did a test of just that a Audi S3 against those two.


_Modified by GeoffB at 4:50 AM 12-30-2008_


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## CorradoMagic (Apr 11, 2008)

I think ppl here would take the GTI as the FWD 'master of none'/compromise & wish the Roco was the more performance orietated version that competes & delivers.
.... at least thats my take from the replys. 

my Corrado is 301whp. I dont even have my LSD in yet. Its delivered via SC so its not quite so bad as turbo, but nearing 300 in a FWD car should 'require' a real LSD from the factory, because its definitely needed to help put down the power
Power is nothing w/o delivery.
Can VW build something to beat(not meet) the competition? 
- in terms of performance, not just build & luxury


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (GeoffB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GeoffB* »_...1)265bhp FWD won't work well, funny that as UK forums and forums in europe are all flooded with edition30/pirelli owners running chipped cars with 300+bhp & 300+lb.ft torque and there not all complaining and thats much more than a stock 265/260 S3 engine has...

There is a difference: in many parts of Europe, you can legally drive more than 65, 75, 90, 100mph or even unlimited mph. That's where the extra power truly comes in. If you are traction limited below 50mph, there isn't really much room to use all that power. Are you going to show people off in your dramatic 55 to 60mph accelerations? It's not going to help you in the canyons or in the hills, and in the city no one should accelerate like crazy, anyway. And in inclement whether all I want is more traction (i.e., at least a real front LSD).










_Modified by feels_road at 5:25 PM 12-31-2008_


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## 20th875 (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: (feels_road)*


_Quote, originally posted by *feels_road* »_
There is a difference: in many parts of Europe, you can legally drive more than 65, 75, 90, 100mph or even unlimited mph. That's where the extra power truly comes in. If you are traction limited below 50mph, there isn't really much room to use all that power. Are you going to show people off in your dramatic 55 to 60mph accelerations? It's not going to help you in the canyons or in the hills, and in the city no one should accelerate like crazy, anyway. And in inclement whether all I want is more traction (i.e., at least a real front LSD).








I agree. Who cares how much power you have it you can't put it down. That's why 300 hp and FWD are no good. Gotta have AWD to do that. 
_Modified by feels_road at 5:25 PM 12-31-2008_


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## CQ DX (Jan 2, 2005)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

VW, just give us a 'balls to the walls', slightly lighter, more aggressive, lower slung, 275-300 HP GTI, with 18" wheels stock, 19" optional, that will take back the 'hot hatch' genre. Think updated 20th AE for the ages!


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## MKV.RABBIT (Jun 18, 2007)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (CQ DX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CQ DX* »_VW, just give us a 'balls to the walls', slightly lighter, more aggressive, lower slung, 275-300 HP GTI, with 18" wheels stock, 19" optional, that will take back the 'hot hatch' genre. Think updated 20th AE for the ages!

I agree http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








And you also just described the Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








I can't wait to see the Studie R in the states!


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## genoentchev123 (Apr 15, 2007)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (MKV.RABBIT)*

jeez man, if only, if only i had that third pedal, i pray they bring it here to jersey just like that, but with the stick, paddle and slapstick just isnt the same, and i hope those seats come with it... i will stop going to school to pay for this... so sexy


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## m_v (Oct 27, 2005)

awd would be a killer for this .... on the other hand why would they ruin the car with the italian national colours all over this beauty


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (m_v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *m_v* »_on the other hand why would they ruin the car with the italian national colours all over this beauty

Yeah, it would have been much easier to temporarily make Bologna a German city.


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## spongebob_squarepants (Jul 4, 2001)

Love the styling, but wish it came in AWD to the U.S.
That's a tough price point though (over $30K usd)


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## argh32 (Apr 8, 2004)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

They get the Rocco and we get the van............ http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

that car looks pretty sweet http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EyeDoughnutNo (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

So, uh... WHAT ABOUT THIS!








http://www.caranddriver.com/re..._news
I can't believe vw vortex doesn't have a story on this yet.
*GOLF R20 *


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## Trict GTi (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (Phunkshon)*

WOW i'm sold on the hyundai Genisis Coupe if only VW did this car in a rear wheel drive chassis with the 2.0t fsi or an r32 turbo engine...
VW i'm more interested in the huyndai, than that porsche boxter look-a-like. I really hope you guys do something for us Vw enthusiast
GOOD LUCK WITH SALES IN 09'


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## 20th875 (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: Volkswagen Scirocco Studie R (EyeDoughnutNo)*

Me likes this rendition. VW may be listening. I bet that chip tuning and a good exhaust will get you over 300 hp. Hopefully more. That would be the next car for me. I've been begging for 300+ hp with AWD. VW is certainly capable of doing this, they just have to want to. Hopefully they realize they have to provide comparable power and AWD, no matter how good the interior is. We shall see.


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