# APR 2019 Beetle Tune -- Not til June (2020).



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

That's basically it.



( Background: _Not sure when, but around 2018 The Beetle got a new ECU that is different from previous years. This "upgrade" made the existing APR tunes not compatible with that model year. The 2019 Beetle does NOT have an existing APR tune._ )​
I spoke to them in November, they said it would be December.
I spoke to them in December, they said it would be January.
I spoke to them today, and I got more detail ... they need to do the Tiquan first, they have supposedly cracked the ECU, they are just testing (with engine sensors and track testing) all the parameters ... Tiquan probably won't be finished until March ... after that the Beetle tune should be released shortly thereafter.

He wouldn't say May, so ...

Bummer.
I bought mine - which I still love - in November being told the tune was already in existence. Every delay is disappointing.
​
But I thought others should know.


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## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

NewBeatle said:


> That's basically it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've done APR in the past and been happy with the results. But with the way VW will now flag any tuned ECU with a voided warranty, I am not willing to give up the 6 year 72k warranty on our 2019 this early into ownership.

I'd much more likely consider a removable JB1/4 or Neuspeed Power Module that doesn't alter the ECU nor leave much of a hint of being installed, though.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> I've done APR in the past and been happy with the results. But with the way VW will now flag any tuned ECU with a voided warranty, I am not willing to give up the 6 year 72k warranty on our 2019 this early into ownership.
> 
> I'd much more likely consider a removable JB1/4 or Neuspeed Power Module that doesn't alter the ECU nor leave much of a hint of being installed, though.


I will double check this next week, but I have a local dealer who is my APR vendor, and they tell me the tune and their work will not void the warranty. I'll post what they tell me.​
_Thanks for writing ..._


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## aaronjbeetle (Dec 13, 2019)

Thank you for the info! 

I wonder how the sloppy 6A will hold up...I have 17k on my 18 Beetle and I don't really trust it...


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

aaronjbeetle said:


> Thank you for the info!
> 
> I wonder how the sloppy 6A will hold up...I have 17k on my 18 Beetle and I don't really trust it...


Hi ...

As you can see, I'm a "_new_" Beetle owner.
Would you please clarify what the "*sloppy 6A*" is, and why you _don't really trust it_?

( I have an auto _Caitlin_ driving power through my Beetle. )
​
Thanks for writing.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

*Dealers!*

(_groan_)

Spoke to my dealer today ... 1st he asked me what tune I was doing (I said, "just a cold air intake and the tune"), then he said the tune that they will install and authorize voids the warranty (I said, "really? You guys are doing it."), he said well, when you modify the downpipe and other components it effects the warranty (I again say, "no, no downpipe, just the intake - usually a cold air intake doesn't put the engine in peril - so just the intake and the software"), he said oh, then that probably doesn't {_I think, "probably? are you even hearing yourself, you dufus?"; but ..._ }(I said, "could you check? Call up the VW mothership and verify?")

I should work there.
I hate when I know more about the product than the people who are trusted to look after it.

(*groan!*)

​


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## aaronjbeetle (Dec 13, 2019)

NewBeatle said:


> Hi ...
> 
> As you can see, I'm a "_new_" Beetle owner.
> Would you please clarify what the "*sloppy 6A*" is, and why you _don't really trust it_?
> ...


Just the 6-speed automatic transmission in the 2018/2019 Beetle.

Mine doesn't have the super crisp shifts that many other automatic transmissions have, and mine just feels sloppy and lose time to time. I don't have a ton of trust in it, but I did get a "free lifetime powertrain" warranty from the dealer. 

I'm sure it's fine overall, I just don't like it and sad I couldn't get a manual.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

aaronjbeetle said:


> Just the 6-speed automatic transmission in the 2018/2019 Beetle.
> 
> Mine doesn't have the super crisp shifts that many other automatic transmissions have, and mine just feels sloppy and lose time to time. I don't have a ton of trust in it, but I did get a "free lifetime powertrain" warranty from the dealer.
> 
> I'm sure it's fine overall, I just don't like it and sad I couldn't get a manual.


Interesting ...

My last rocketship was a modified Nissan Juke (Nismo RS). Except for starting off the line, I really liked the CVT (transmission) on it. The thing zoomed around the highway and back roads effortlessly. So the feel of my Beetle's shifting behavior is another new thing for me. Haven't noticed any sloppiness, other than it sometimes wanting to go hunting at low speeds.

Secondly, isn't the point of the DSG/Dual Clutch Transmission that it is tighter and less *sloppy*?

Thanks for responding.


*{*
_as offered in the thread later/below, the 2019 Beetle does *NOT* have a DSG. My error: don't know where I read it did. I can't find that source now. Very odd. Bottom line: no DSG on the 2019 Beetle._
​*}*​


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## aaronjbeetle (Dec 13, 2019)

NewBeatle said:


> Interesting ...
> 
> My last rocketship was a modified Nissan Juke (Nismo RS). Except for starting off the line, I really liked the CVT (transmission) on it. The thing zoomed around the highway and back roads effortlessly. So the feel of my Beetle's shifting behavior is another new thing for me. Haven't noticed any sloppiness, other than it sometimes wanting to go hunting at low speeds.
> 
> ...


I guess that's mostly what I mean. My 11 mile commute takes anywhere from 45-65 minutes, and most of that time is the Beetle trying to decide if it want's 2nd or 3rd, and when I accelerate in the middle of a gear change it really feels sloppy / clunky. Driving on the freeway or around town, its okay. But the traffic gear-hunting bothers me. 

That juke sounds neat though!


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

aaronjbeetle said:


> I guess that's mostly what I mean. My 11 mile commute takes anywhere from 45-65 minutes, and most of that time is the Beetle trying to decide if it want's 2nd or 3rd, and when I accelerate in the middle of a gear change it really feels sloppy / clunky. Driving on the freeway or around town, its okay. But the traffic gear-hunting bothers me.
> 
> That juke sounds neat though!


They haven't figured out a way to build an easily serviced CVT, so, for now, they all blow up around 60,000 miles. Sad, it's a very sensuous driving experience.

Have you tried doing your commute -- at least the high traffic parts -- in the hybrid manual mode? That way it will stay in one gear and will be much more linear, while also giving you a better feel for the turbo jolt. Just a thought.

{
_11 miles in 50 minutes sounds utterly painful. I'd probably wear my horn out in 6 months.​_}

Thanks for writing.


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## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

The 6 speed automatic transmissions on the 2018 and 2019 Beetles (and the 2.5 and 1.8t Beetles) are a regular automatic with a torque converter. The DSG only came on the R Line Beetle and possibly on some of the other 2.0 turbos from 2012-2015ish (feel free to chime in with more accurate info on the DSG availability). 

My GTI with a DSG trans shifts more crisply than any of my wife's Beetles (2014, 2017, 2019). I typically prefer driving the Beetle in the Sport mode setting of the transmission to get a little better response, holding a lower gear a bit longer, and less hunting. I keep it in Drive for anytime I'm just casually motoring or wanting better fuel economy. The regular 6A has apparently been fine for folks with stage 1 tunes on the 1.8 Golfs and Jettas that have the same 6A trans for the past few years. Not sure what the torque limit is, but it's likely fine for anything short of a turbo swap.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> The 6 speed automatic transmissions on the 2018 and 2019 Beetles (and the 2.5 and 1.8t Beetles) are a regular automatic with a torque converter. The DSG only came on the R Line Beetle and possibly on some of the other 2.0 turbos from 2012-2015ish (feel free to chime in with more accurate info on the DSG availability).
> 
> My GTI with a DSG trans shifts more crisply than any of my wife's Beetles (2014, 2017, 2019). I typically prefer driving the Beetle in the Sport mode setting of the transmission to get a little better response, holding a lower gear a bit longer, and less hunting. I keep it in Drive for anytime I'm just casually motoring or wanting better fuel economy. The regular 6A has apparently been fine for folks with stage 1 tunes on the 1.8 Golfs and Jettas that have the same 6A trans for the past few years. Not sure what the torque limit is, but it's likely fine for anything short of a turbo swap.


Huh ... now I can't find the article that said the 2019 Beetle transmission was a DSG. I did find some that said the DSG is slightly more efficient, while also being slightly less reliable. Found a 2015 article that specifically said the VW DSG was one of the best transmissions on the market. Wide variance. Also found the DSG is less torque forgiving than the traditional TC automatic, which while I plan for a tune, was good to know.

Thanks for your input.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

*Warranty Status:*

After many calls and callbacks, now the dealer I spoke to says any ECU modification will void the entire powertrain warranty. I know there is "Magnuson-Moss" legislation passed specifically about this. Magnuson makes superchargers for Jeeps, among others. The law forces manufacturers to stand behind their products when the aftermarket modification can reasonably be excluded from defect. The FTC in 2011 issued a consumer alert reminding car owners of this legislation and their rights to add aftermarket parts to their own automobiles without the manufacturers running away like little brats. For example, an upgraded tune should have little or no effect on a worn out CV joint. Hence, legal action might get you to force VW to step up. If you have tuned, or aftermarket-ed, and have run into a problem, consider getting yourself a lawyer.

My dealer also was not clear on what tunes APR will stand behind with a supplemental APR warranty. There is a "Plus" tune option out there, independent of the type of "Phase" of the tune you select. The "Plus" has APR slide in their own warranty behind the voided VW warranty if you run into a problem. The dealer was clueless. The APR help line was a little more helpful, but would not discuss specifics with me because their "Gen 3" Beetle tune is not yet ready.

Regardless, my dealer service center has completely withdrawn the claim that if you do an APR tune from their garage it will have no effect on your warranty.

_I feel so much better.
_​


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> _ ... stuff deleted ... _
> 
> I'd much more likely consider a removable JB1/4 or Neuspeed Power Module that doesn't alter the ECU nor leave much of a hint of being installed, though.


This is to inform you that you have been tasked with buying the Neuspeed Power Module and installing it so you can give us an expert opinion on it.

That is all.


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## aaronjbeetle (Dec 13, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> The 6 speed automatic transmissions on the 2018 and 2019 Beetles (and the 2.5 and 1.8t Beetles) are a regular automatic with a torque converter. The DSG only came on the R Line Beetle and possibly on some of the other 2.0 turbos from 2012-2015ish (feel free to chime in with more accurate info on the DSG availability).
> 
> My GTI with a DSG trans shifts more crisply than any of my wife's Beetles (2014, 2017, 2019). I typically prefer driving the Beetle in the Sport mode setting of the transmission to get a little better response, holding a lower gear a bit longer, and less hunting. I keep it in Drive for anytime I'm just casually motoring or wanting better fuel economy. The regular 6A has apparently been fine for folks with stage 1 tunes on the 1.8 Golfs and Jettas that have the same 6A trans for the past few years. Not sure what the torque limit is, but it's likely fine for anything short of a turbo swap.


I've starting using SPORT in traffic, and it's been better. 

And that's good news on the tune acceptance on the 6A.

Thanks for sharing!


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## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

NewBeatle said:


> This is to inform you that you have been tasked with buying the Neuspeed Power Module and installing it so you can give us an expert opinion on it.
> 
> That is all.


Haha, already done it, albeit on other VWs.

I've used a Neuspeed Power Module on my 2014 Jetta 1.8t a few years ago, and again on my wife's previous 2017 Beetle 1.8t. It gives a bit more noticeable punch at full throttle, and requires premium fuel. It is far short of a full tune, and didn't seem to make any difference at part throttle. It adds around 30hp/30tq. The NPM isn't hard or time consuming to install aside from plugging in the bottom sensor (can be done from the top, but easier to take off the bottom tray and do it by feel from underneath). 

It's decent for making the car feel a little more peppy at full throttle, but ultimately just whets the appetite for a full tune. Think of it like a little bit of foreplay and getting to 2nd base, but knowing how much more is waiting for you... 

We haven't gotten anything for the 2019 yet as it's too new for me to want to mess around with it just yet. For my GTI, I have a Cobb Accessport with a full Stage 1 tune, knowing that my powertrain warranty is voided if I have any issues (45k miles on the GTI now, 15k left of powertrain warranty, been tuned since 25k miles, zero issues). The full tunes voiding warranties is a thing in the GTI world. More reading here for seeing how VW deals with it: https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...td1-recalls-updates-magnuson-moss-etc.319651/

The NPM a good product for someone who wants a little more punch from their car, doesn't want to mess around with using a lap top for tweaking settings like with a JB4, and can be removed for dealer service visits in order to maintain warranty coverage. Get a used one for around $200, try it out. If you like it, keep it. If you don't or want to move up to another device, you can sell it again for about that same $200. 

The JB4 is a better product for someone who is willing to get it dialed in for better and more performance, has a few more plug ins, but still removable and not altering the ECU and still maintaining warranty. 

A full tune will provide the best overall performance, but will show up on a scan at a VW dealer even after being removed.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> Haha, already done it, albeit on other VWs.
> 
> I've used a Neuspeed Power Module on my 2014 Jetta 1.8t a few years ago, and again on my wife's previous 2017 Beetle 1.8t. It gives a bit more noticeable punch at full throttle, and requires premium fuel. It is far short of a full tune, and didn't seem to make any difference at part throttle. It adds around 30hp/30tq. The NPM isn't hard or time consuming to install aside from plugging in the bottom sensor (can be done from the top, but easier to take off the bottom tray and do it by feel from underneath).
> 
> ...



Thanks for your time and efforts.
Your post again illustrates the lameness of a certain car site that will not allow members to post any pictures, even those relating to baseball.

I found another thread somewhere (on here?) discussing the NEUSpeed box. (You may have been on it.) It got quite heated. I bring it up because there were I believe 3 users who gave a review that was totally positive, like the box made for a brand new car. Much more zip, more fun, these pretzels are making me thirsty, blah blah blah. Do you think your different experience is due to the 1.8T platform? In theory, their new found punch should have been present on yours. Any thoughts on that? I don't recall if any of these fans had the *2019 Gen 3 Budack* engine. I wonder how the little box effects that? Questions, questions.

I just did a search on "Magnuson Moss" and got a screen full of hits. I suppose I have reading to do.
I've looked into the JB4. I sent them an email - _crickets!_ Perhaps a ping with a phone call.

In closing, I suppose I should mention, buried here in my response, that my latest phone call to APR resulted in the customer service guy using the word *IF*, as in "_when and if we release this tune, it will be fully tested. We go slower than others, but we don't wreck your car._" First time he did that. Bad mojo.

Thanks again.


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## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

I'd say my experience with the NPM is possibly a bit different than those others you mentioned because I know how a real tune more than doubles the HP and TQ increase compared to a NPM. So perhaps for a driver that has only experienced the NPM, they would likely be overwhelmingly positive, as that's their best frame of reference. It's a fine device that does what it is designed to do by giving a modest increase in performance that can be felt while doing so on a budget and in a warranty-keeping manner. It's just that there is more to be had above and beyond that device should one have the desire to go further.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> I'd say my experience with the NPM is possibly a bit different than those others you mentioned because I know how a real tune more than doubles the HP and TQ increase compared to a NPM. So perhaps for a driver that has only experienced the NPM, they would likely be overwhelmingly positive, as that's their best frame of reference. It's a fine device that does what it is designed to do by giving a modest increase in performance that can be felt while doing so on a budget and in a warranty-keeping manner. It's just that there is more to be had above and beyond that device should one have the desire to go further.


Another reasonable response. Yes, I did a (real) flash ECU tune on my Juke, and increased the torque by 45%; so I can see your perspective on "ehhh" (Brando/DonCorleone with his back to his office door) when it comes to the eavesdropping type of tune.

Funny as we talked about this an email landed in my inbox yesterday morning (27 Jan) from the JB4 folks. "George" was very nice, precise. It's something to consider. I am also thinking that a transitional step (if I end up going to an APR tune) would be a mistake, because it would lessen the *Wow!* effect of the more intense tune. And why do that, when the Wow is mostly the point? But even visually (unless that's a game), the JB4 box is much bigger, quotes processor speeds and sampler rates - so there is reason to believe it will do more than NPM and be "safer" for the engine. For now, enjoying my tires once or twice a week is enough to raise a smile.

Thanks again.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

.

*Reading Material:*


Here's a solid article on the 2019 Beetle TSI engine ( ea888 Gen 3B ), offering a good look at why tuning it will both have limitations and not be easy. With the Tiquan connection, the engine is more than 2 years past its debut, and still no tune. One wonders whether when might be an if ... 

( Link *-->*) 2019 Beetle Engine
​
.

It seems to me the low rev input cycle shortening will help prevent blowing up transmissions off the line, which is always one of my concerns when tuning.
​


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## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

Thanks for the extra research! Looking forward to George putting together some sort of JB1/JB4 that we can use. That'll probably be the way I go sometime in the next 12-24 months once the car is broken in and I feel that there won't be any issues with it.


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## VWJungle (Feb 7, 2020)

*2014 VW Beetle 2.5l*

Hello out there so I am on a mission! I know there are a lot of VW Beetle owners out there, I am in the process of working with a reputable VW parts distributor in the beautiful state of Oregon. I am trying to solve the infamous no cat back exhaust available issue for the 2.5 Liter Beetles with single driver side rear exit exhaust systems. So I am wondering if anyone lives near the portland area and willing to drive there 2013-2014 VW Beetle to the shop for professional measurements of the exhaust from the cat back to possibly put something into production for this platform. Please reach out to me brothers this may be a dream come true for all...........................................


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

VWJungle said:


> Hello out there so I am on a mission! I know there are a lot of VW Beetle owners out there, I am in the process of working with a reputable VW parts distributor in the beautiful state of Oregon. I am trying to solve the infamous no cat back exhaust available issue for the 2.5 Liter Beetles with single driver side rear exit exhaust systems. So I am wondering if anyone lives near the portland area and willing to drive there 2013-2014 VW Beetle to the shop for professional measurements of the exhaust from the cat back to possibly put something into production for this platform. Please reach out to me brothers this may be a dream come true for all...........................................



If you can produce an _*APR*_ tune for the 2019 Beetle, you'll probably get more traffic.
...{ _ just sayin' _ }
​


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## Ripdubski (Aug 12, 2004)

Dan00Hawk said:


> The 6 speed automatic transmissions on the 2018 and 2019 Beetles (and the 2.5 and 1.8t Beetles) are a regular automatic with a torque converter. The DSG only came on the R Line Beetle and possibly on some of the other 2.0 turbos from 2012-2015ish (feel free to chime in with more accurate info on the DSG availability).
> 
> My GTI with a DSG trans shifts more crisply than any of my wife's Beetles (2014, 2017, 2019). I typically prefer driving the Beetle in the Sport mode setting of the transmission to get a little better response, holding a lower gear a bit longer, and less hunting. I keep it in Drive for anytime I'm just casually motoring or wanting better fuel economy. The regular 6A has apparently been fine for folks with stage 1 tunes on the 1.8 Golfs and Jettas that have the same 6A trans for the past few years. Not sure what the torque limit is, but it's likely fine for anything short of a turbo swap.


From the research I did on my 17, its not terribly high limiting what you do safely.

From my thread after I got the Neuspeed module for the 1.8T:
"I run 93 octane gas. The module has settings for 91 (premium) and 100 (race). The 91 setting increases boost by 4 psi. The 100 setting increases it by 6 psi. To use 100, I would need to add octane booster. On 87 gas, the 1.8T makes 170 HP / 184 TQ. With 93 that increases to 191 HP / 203 TQ. The Nuespeed increase is 35 HP / 35 TQ, for a net total of 224 HP / 238 TQ. The lame 6 spd automatic transmission (not DSG) they put in the 17's is only rated for *258 TQ (foot lbs)*. When I get an exhaust I expect the power to raise just a hair, and I'm done."

I've since switched it to the higher setting without any issues, knocking, etc, after confirming with Neuspeed. I still run 93 octane. The difference between the low setting and high setting is greater than the difference between no piggyback and the low setting. That is to say, it feels that much better.

The entire thread is here:
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8568449-My-2017-SEL-Coupe-(Silk-Blue-Titan-Black)


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Ripdubski said:


> From the research I did on my 17, its not terribly high limiting what you do safely.
> 
> From my thread after I got the Neuspeed module for the 1.8T:
> "I run 93 octane gas. The module has settings for 91 (premium) and 100 (race). The 91 setting increases boost by 4 psi. The 100 setting increases it by 6 psi. To use 100, I would need to add octane booster. On 87 gas, the 1.8T makes 170 HP / 184 TQ. With 93 that increases to 191 HP / 203 TQ. The Nuespeed increase is 35 HP / 35 TQ, for a net total of 224 HP / 238 TQ. The lame 6 spd automatic transmission (not DSG) they put in the 17's is only rated for *258 TQ (foot lbs)*. When I get an exhaust I expect the power to raise just a hair, and I'm done."
> ...



My rotational dynamics are decades behind me, but isn't that "*258 TQ*" a "_relative_" rating?

For reference, let "output shaft" be the rotating axle coming "out" of the transmission;
"transmission shaft" be the axle of the car that connects to the actual drive wheels (through the differential)​.

So, suppose the car is driving down the road at 65 mph, and the transmission is in gear. The transmission shaft has its own torque value and own angular momentum. Let us suppose that the torque coming out of the engine at this speed is 200 ft/pounds. Let us suppose that the transmission shaft driving the wheels has its own angular momentum which creates 220 ft/pounds of torque. Hence, isn't it so, that at that moment, the "stress" put on the transmission is only 20 ft/pounds of torque? The engine does not - can not - deliver it's maximum torque output to the transmission shaft at all speeds, or the car would infinitely accelerate - the transmission shaft would continue to gain the torque of the engine at all speeds.











_Even these turbines have limits.
_
​

If this is so, isn't it true that the typical case is that the maximum stress and torque seen by a transmission is the force applied to the vehicle off the line from a standing start? Everything behind the transmission has zero torque. If a driver punches his accelerator to give full engine output at the start, that will create the greatest stress and torque through the transmission, correct? And, therefore, given sane driving, one can have an engine safely deliver 300 ft/pounds of torque through a 250 ft/pounds rated transmission if the vehicle is already moving when that 300 is delivered without putting the transmission in peril, right?

Please confirm, or add details.

Thank you.
​


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## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

^ I see your line of reasoning, and it's logical. But this is my take though: The car's engine is making full torque at a certain rpm under full throttle. There is actually more load and resistance on the car when it's moving at higher speeds, though, due to the gearing differences. This is one reason why HP and TQ readings are done on a dyno at a shop with the transmission in a 1:1 setting with the engine (typically 4th gear in a manual, for example). If you've ever had a clutch that was near the end of its life, for example, you'll know that it starts slipping in 3rd and 4th gear under full throttle in that 2k-4k rpm range, while you may not notice it in 1st or 2nd gear. 

Or think about riding your 10-18 speed bicycle. Try accelerating as hard as you can in top gear and it's much more strain on your legs than it is in the lower gears. Same thing applies to your transmission in your car...

So going full throttle in 3rd or 4th gear will put more strain on the drivetrain components than it will in 1st and 2nd gear due to the gearing differences.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> ^ I see your line of reasoning, and it's logical. But this is my take though: The car's engine is making full torque at a certain rpm under full throttle. There is actually more load and resistance on the car when it's moving at higher speeds, though, due to the gearing differences. This is one reason why HP and TQ readings are done on a dyno at a shop with the transmission in a 1:1 setting with the engine (typically 4th gear in a manual, for example). If you've ever had a clutch that was near the end of its life, for example, you'll know that it starts slipping in 3rd and 4th gear under full throttle in that 2k-4k rpm range, while you may not notice it in 1st or 2nd gear.
> 
> Or think about riding your 10-18 speed bicycle. Try accelerating as hard as you can in top gear and it's much more strain on your legs than it is in the lower gears. Same thing applies to your transmission in your car...
> 
> So going full throttle in 3rd or 4th gear will put more strain on the drivetrain components than it will in 1st and 2nd gear due to the gearing differences.




This is true, but ...

I've always had clutch slippages in higher gears when the RPMs of the engine are insufficient. Maybe I'm a faithful downshifter when I want to fly. But in the low RPM case, the torque output of the engine is low while the inertial torque of the transmission shaft is high, and my delta torque theory holds.

Also, this breakdown only addresses the clutch. Suppose you have a brand new car with an APR Stage 11 Mars Orbital Tune. You're at a Stop sign and you gun it and the clutch itself holds. What about the linkage behind the clutch plate to the transmission shaft going to the tires? That component can also explode, no? And it seems to me if that link explodes, that will create a much larger repair bill than simply replacing the clutch plate.

Or are transmissions designed to always have the clutch plate(s) fail so that the linkages to them always remain in tact?

{
Isn't this also a doorway into why APR offers a "slow start" tune option? So you never reach the Mars Orbital MaxTQ when you are moving away from the Stop sign? Or not, I realize this is all theory with no experience inside a transmission.​}​


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## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

NewBeatle said:


> This is true, but ...
> 
> I've always had clutch slippages in higher gears when the RPMs of the engine are insufficient. Maybe I'm a faithful downshifter when I want to fly. But in the low RPM case, the torque output of the engine is low while the inertial torque of the transmission shaft is high, and my delta torque theory holds.
> 
> ...


The max torque rating on most motors, especially our turbo VWs, occurs relatively low in the RPM range compared to the HP peak. Both tuned and stock, you'll see it hitting high values starting at 2000 rpm, and hitting peak values around 3,000 rpm. See APR's handy graph (for a GTI) for example:










Starting off from 1st gear, the weakest link is usually the tires, as they'll typically spin (depending on traction control). Use sticky tires though, and launching can be hard on powertrain components, of course. I merely made the clutch example just to state how the weakest link in the powertrain will merely show itself when the torque load is high. So whether it's an axle, clutch pack, torque converter, gears, or whatever, that's when it's most likely to happen. If you hold off full throttle until at higher rpms or by downshifting, then yes, you won't be putting the full torque load through the transmission.

So, I'd say that yes, with careful consideration of when to apply full throttle, one could dance around the max torque threshold of a transmission (or the other weakest link in the drivetrain). I don't actually know what the weakest link is in the trans, other than that the 258ish tq limit is frequently noted. Would it just explode at 300 ft/lbs? Not likely. But it would probably slip, generate extra heat, and prematurely cause excess wear. More so than driving in boost after 5 minutes on a cold engine, I'd guess.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> The max torque rating on most motors, especially our turbo VWs, occurs relatively low in the RPM range compared to the HP peak. Both tuned and stock, you'll see it hitting high values starting at 2000 rpm, and hitting peak values around 3,000 rpm. See APR's handy graph (for a GTI) for example:
> 
> 
> 
> ...













.
​So suppose you were tech savy enough to locate, afford, book, bankroll, go, visit, remove the booby traps, and return home with a _*Westworld*_ host. Or, to be specific, hostess, with a fine English accent and Jane Austen pedigree. And as a hostess of your own choosing she would naturally have the lightest, most feathery touch on the gas pedal of any person who ever drove. Is it true with a tuned car - set to output 577 ft/lbs of torque @2,300 rpms with the _APR Stage 11 Mars Orbital Tune_ -- a tuned car, even with the lightest touch on the gas pedal, when it crosses that 2,300 threshold, is going to deliver that 577 torque value? There's no way to minimize it by your approach or gas pedal touch?

​


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## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

Part throttle will naturally result in less HP and TQ at a given RPM compared to full throttle; there is less air, fuel, and turbo pressure. That's why when we gently press the gas pedal, the car accelerates more slowly than when you put the gas pedal to the floor.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> Part throttle will naturally result in less HP and TQ at a given RPM compared to full throttle; there is less air, fuel, and turbo pressure. That's why when we gently press the gas pedal, the car accelerates more slowly than when you put the gas pedal to the floor.​



Seems so obvious now.
I guess I was mesmerized by the torque graph.

I've driven 250 ft/pds inside a (1.6T) 3250 curbweight car -- great zoom.
350 f/p inside a 3000 lil Beetle sent me a little into orbit.
(Though I'm sure 350 isn't attainable with my Gen 3B{_[email protected]_} engine.)

Thanks for your restraint and response.​


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## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

NewBeatle said:


> Seems so obvious now.
> I guess I was mesmerized by the torque graph.
> 
> I've driven 250 ft/pds inside a (1.6T) 3250 curbweight car -- great zoom.
> ...


Glad to help contribute! 

You may have already seen them, but here are the APR tunes and graphs for the 1.8T Beetle. 










On 93 octane Stage 1, it's putting out around 240 HP and 290 TQ. Numbers are from a Passat with the 1.8, but same as the prior Beetle (2017ish 1.8t) motor. Reasonable expectations are that the newer 2.0 (2018+) could be a couple digits higher (or at least the same since the turbo size is likely the same) but it depends on what the wizards can get dialed in with the tune.
More info from APR on the 1.8 tunes for the Beetle:
https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_18tsi_gen3_trans.html

Difference between stock and stage 1 on a automatic Passat 1.8 is more fun to see than looking at a dyno chart, though


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Just got another email from Sophi at the Wolfsburg Marketing Division. After again bragging about what a great campus she works at ...

.









​
.

... she gave me some interesting news.

*APR* has formalized a *beta* release of their much anticipated _Stage XI Mars Orbital Tune_. Given that the new 2021 Porsche 911 Turbo S has spec'd out at 590 ft/pds of torque, the following information is very sensitive and has resulted in many back channel meetings between engineers from the two parties. The truly miraculous results attained in the _Mars Oribital Tune_ raise the very real possibility that _Stage XI_ for the Gen 3B{_@[email protected]_} engine might never be actually released. But Sophi, dedicated Beetle girl that she is, thought it important that somehow the word got out.


.









​

.

Plan your future tire purchases appropriately.
​


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## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

Close enough to April 1 still!


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> Close enough to April 1 still!
> ​



Why ... whatever do you mean?
_Sophi_ is a 2nd generation VW source for North American information.

Her tech data is beyond reproach.​


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Sorry about the delay. This has been a challenge. 

When the ECU got "cracked" it wasn't like the others. It was very different. That meant more time. Lots more time. Even when we were able to read and right, finding the maps and a few other things related to the structure and operating system of the ECU were different than others, so, even more work, more delays. 

Good thing is the Tiguan is the basis for this platform. Its getting tuned first, and the others will follow. Tiguan should be on the dyno this week.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry about the delay. This has been a challenge.
> 
> When the ECU got "cracked" it wasn't like the others. It was very different. That meant more time. Lots more time. Even when we were able to read and right, finding the maps and a few other things related to the structure and operating system of the ECU were different than others, so, even more work, more delays.
> 
> Good thing is the Tiguan is the basis for this platform. Its getting tuned first, and the others will follow. Tiguan should be on the dyno this week.​



Thank you very much for the update.
Here is a token of my appreciation ...


.










.
​
Good to know it is still an active (ongoing) project.
Your feedback means a lot.​


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

On the dyno today:


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> On the dyno today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...












.


*Thanks again.*
​


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## Jose_MTM (Apr 21, 2020)

Well. The long awaited tune for the EA888 Gen3B is out. Including for the new beetle. 

https://mtm-usa-motoren-technik-mayer.myshopify.com/admin/products/4449532051569


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

As first recorded in January, the "not til June" milestone has been met.
Hooray! for me.

Hitting milestones like this is alot like this ...










.
.








.
.
​Predictable, but not very satisfying.

Vegas is now accepting bets on this release. Parlays are available for day, week or month.
I'm now thinking 5 August 2020.

Feel free to record your wager/prediction below.
​


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> On the dyno today:
> ( from 13 April 2020 )
> ​



*3+* months.
Not good.

( _and I checked the website for both The Beetle and Tiquan with the Gen 3B engine_ )
​


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

FYI: I don't have a timetable for the Beetle / Passat. They differ from the Tiguan / A3, and european variations. It's NOT the same. They will come later.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> FYI: I don't have a timetable for the Beetle / Passat. They differ from the Tiguan / A3, and european variations. It's NOT the same. They will come later.



1) both the 2018 Tiquan and the 2019 Beetle have the 2.0T Gen 3B engine, correct?
2) In December 2019, my 2019 Beetle reported to your APR diagnostics controller as "Tiquan". Do you have an explanation for that, given your statement above?​
Thank you for your involvement here.​


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

NewBeatle said:


> 1) both the 2018 Tiquan and the 2019 Beetle have the 2.0T Gen 3B engine, correct?​




They both have *A* 2.0T Gen 3B engine. They are not the same. 

For example, the turbo is different. It's backwards. The exhaust discharges on the passenger side of the beetle/passat. The exhaust discharges on the driver side of the Tiguan/A3.



> 2) In December 2019, my 2019 Beetle reported to your APR diagnostics controller as "Tiquan". Do you have an explanation for that, given your statement above?


That's not a thing. We don't have anything that would identify an ECU by a vehicle name on a platform in which we don't have software available.​


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> They both have *A* 2.0T Gen 3B engine. They are not the same.
> 
> For example, the turbo is different. It's backwards. The exhaust discharges on the passenger side of the beetle/passat. The exhaust discharges on the driver side of the Tiguan/A3.
> 
> ...




You continue to confirm either the deceitfulness or incompetence of my dealer's service rep.
Thank you very much for returning here, for your responsiveness and the information offered.

Good luck with your Tiquan build. May it generate a million speeding tickets
​









​


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

.



June ... _nope._
July ... _nope._
August ... _nope.
_

*September arrives ... *​









.

_The 2019 Beetle's (Gen 3B 2.0T) short-term performance upgrades._
​


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