# 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul



## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

My cousin has a 91 20vt quatro wagon with a no run situation. He ussually services his own cars, but since he's works in NY and I'm a home dad/part time mechanic/vw fanatic, I got the job. First let me say, This car is AWESOME. It is also really hard to work on and even harder to push.







He had already found it was a no spark situation, which I confirmed, so I pulled the cap and am pretty sure that the rotor is fried. It looks seriously rough. He previously purchased the brass distributor gear so even though it checked out ok, I'm going to go ahead and put it in while I have the rest apart. He aimed me at the SJM Autotechnic website which is a wealth of info for you audi guys. VERY nice site. 
So as of now, here's a list of parts I am planning on replacing:
Dist cap, 
rotor(the correct one...Thanks SJM), 
Dist gear,
intake manifold gasket,
VC gasket,
silicone turbo coolant pipe (if needed)
the rubber vacuum line with copper and silicone
The car also has a broken alt bracket, which cuz sourced already and sent along with the car, so I'll be swapping that out too. 
I'll get some pics up as I go, mostly so he can see went on while I was working on his baby.

ANY advice???? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by spasticone at 10:13 AM 11-21-2008_


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## yodasfro (Oct 2, 2004)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (spasticone)*

Not sure that a bad rotor would cause a no run situation. If you're changing the rotor might as well do the cap too and maybe even new plugs. Have you checked for spark? If the reason he got the brass gear is cause the dizzy still has the stock plastic gear it is possible that it broke. If you have access to vag-com it would be a good idea scan the car for codes. As for the alt bracket I'd remove the bumper, grill and intercooler to make changing it easier. The bumper is easy to remove just two 8mm allens from underneath for the mounts also there 4 screws holding the brake ducts to the bumpers lower edge. For the intake manifold you'll need an extra long 6mm allen to reach the bolts. This forum is a little slow I would recommend getting on http://www.motorgeek.com/ for quicker replies.


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## Phatbastard (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (yodasfro)*

Best thing you can do for a no spark is pull the codes, like yodasfro says. SJM will tell you how. I would first clear the codes by disconnecting the battery for 15-20 minutes. If you have been fighting a no start for a while and have been cranking away with the starter you could have a ton of false codes. Disconnect battery, 15 minutes later re-connect, crank the car for no more that 10sec or so, read codes.
If you give up, ship it to me in Utah


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (Phatbastard)*

First off, Thanks for the responses. I already posted a list up top of the planned parts. The sjm website has a great overview of what goes on with the rotor and a good how to so I'm gonna go ahead with that first. It needs it anyway. 
http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/...rotor
I'm sure the cap/rotor are fried from a simple visual and he def wanted the gear replaced already because of the possibility of the original plastic one failing. That was the first thing I checked after checking for spark. It's not broken now and has nearly no play as per the Bently check, but hey, why wait for it to die.
Wires will be done later as he has a new set already, but they aren't here with me. 
I didn't even think of vag com. My buddy has it so I may look into it. 
I've got the tools covered as I am a tool junky. 
Here's a few pics. 
























And the car in question... Please pardon the shop.... There a whole rabbit and half of 4 other cars in it right now.










_Modified by spasticone at 11:27 PM 11-21-2008_


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## yodasfro (Oct 2, 2004)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (spasticone)*

Can't really tell from the pics but looks like the hall sender plug on the dizzy is broken? That could be the no spark right there. There's good bit of oil in there if you do change the gear make sure you get a new o-ring for the dizzy.


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (yodasfro)*

The hall senders on there. Is this the same as the 16v distributor? Where's the o-ring?


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## yodasfro (Oct 2, 2004)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (spasticone)*

Same as in placement of the seal or seal size? Here's where the seal is.
If you're changing the gear you'll need to pull the dizzy any how.


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (yodasfro)*

The oil is leaking out of the inside of the dizzy. I have it out and will change the outer oring. On 16v dist. there used to be an oring you could replace on the inner shaft. I thought maybe that was what you meant. I have one question about the brass replacement gear. There are 2 holes for the dowel pin. One set fits the dowel pin tight in the gear and tight in the shaft, the other lets the pin slide into the gear hole and tight in the shaft. Which do I use? It has no marking and by the way it looked the closest matching the teeth of the old gear and the new gear it lands on the loose gear hole. I didn't think that was right so I need to find that out. 
I also got the manifold off and changed the VC gasket today. Switched out a few vac lines too. Used some copper line to go through the intake pipe that goes over the head. Any other place that I should use that and not silicone? 
I'll get so new pics up later. everything I've gotten to so far has been VERY crusty so it's been very worth while. Thanks for the input!


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## yodasfro (Oct 2, 2004)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (spasticone)*

I'd go with the hole in which the pin fits the tightest, don't want it flying out!!! It won't make a difference timing wise where you put the gear on. You can adjust the timing to TDC by turning the dizzy body once the gear is meshed with the cam gear. All the timing info is on SJM. As for vac. lines the place you put it is probably the only place worth using the hard line, as it sees a lot of heat from the EM. I don't think there is an inner o-ring on the shaft?


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (yodasfro)*

Ok. So the holes in the distributor gear... The larger hole is a mistake, so you use the smaller hole. I'm looking for some info on a few parts. The breather hose from the main breather is pretty bad. Is there a source for that? I don't have an audi dealer within 100 miles so I haven't called to see if they can still get it. I can't get a hold of the guy from sjm. 
I really need to get some parts on the way. 
I also just realized this.. you may know the owner. His name is Craig.


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (spasticone)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif SJM AUTOTECHNIC http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## yodasfro (Oct 2, 2004)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (spasticone)*

A new breather hose is pretty pricey. I would suggest piecing one together out of 034'a silicone breather hose and some metal fittings and silicone hose. If money is no object 034103221AF is the pn# and it can be had for $143 from http://www.worldimpex.com/index.html
http://www.034motorsport.com/p...=1012


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (yodasfro)*

Thanks so much for your help. 
Last night I actually priced the original hose for around 150 and almost puked. Then I ordered the 034efi hose. He sold me the other style though. I know the one you pictured looks like my original, but with an extra nipple, but he insists this is the correct hose. http://www.034motorsport.com/p...18020
I asked his like 47 times to verify that it was correct and he said it was, sooooo... I hope I'm not waiting 2 weeks to ship stuff around to end up with the correct one.








I need to find some silicone hose to match the 034 piece, but I want to wait till i get it to move on with that. 
On a positive note, the coolant manifold was leaking a lot so it's good i got into that. On a rotten note, one of the bolts broke so i have to fart around with that tonight. 
If you have any insight on the 034 hose, please let me know. 
Thanks again.


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## yodasfro (Oct 2, 2004)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (spasticone)*

Nope that's not the right one that is for 10vt. You want the one I posted just block off the nipple. As for the broken stud if there is enough left on it I have had good luck with pb blaster a torch then I hammer on a female torx socket or 12 point socket or a bolt out, just make sure it's an under sized socket. New seals for the water mani are good idea pn# for the triangular seal 027121139A and the o-rings x 3 N 0282034 any old o-ring would do though. The tri seal will come up any most parts places the o-ring more likely worldimpex. Good site to look up oem part #'s http://www.vagcat.com/ just register for free. Good place to get parts for cheap free shipping over $50 http://www.autohausaz.com


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (yodasfro)*

I use autohausaz all the time. Great prices. I was afraid of that with the hose. I even called them back and made sure after you posted the last post and once again they said it was for the 3B and would def work. I'm gonna be pissed if it's wrong when it shows up esp after calling and quadruple checking. I def see that it looks dif. Crap. I got the bolt out my fav way. Drive a nut over the stud, then weld the middle and remove. Worked like a charm. 
Man.. I'm seriously bummed about that hose. It's gonna take a while to get here, then send it back, the get another one. And I'm sure the guy thinks I'm just being a pain. 
This is a 3b car right? The 20v is a 3B?


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## yodasfro (Oct 2, 2004)

*Re: 1991 20VQT wagon mini overhaul (spasticone)*

Yes the 20v motor in the 200 20v is the 3B. That's stupid if you look at the item description of the hose you don't want it says it fits the 3B/MC then the description of the one you want says it fits the 200 20v.








I can tell you for fact that the MC style hose will not fit the 3B motor.
Anyhow call them again and tell them the part you want to order not what they recommend and also ask for USPS shipping it will take half the time to get to you. Good to hear you got the broken bolt out.


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Well, in case you couldn't guess, I am waiting impatiently for the RIGHT breather hose that i TRIED to order the first time. At least I should be getting a piece of 3/4" silicone with it to complete the setup. I have everything ready to go back together now so it should go quickly. I need to build a shroud for my wood stove so I can get the hot air to the car It's FREEZING!!!


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

Update time. Finally got the breather hose sorted out and got it back together. All of a sudden, the 034 website now list the hose as only for the MC motor. Go figure. And to top off the good service, they forgot to send the 3/4 heater hose (or just didn't have it and never let me know)
All new silicone vacuum lines, intake gasket, dist seal, etc. Lots of goodness. Soooo. I still don't have spark. On to checking codes. The car doesn't have a bulb in the check engine light so I called my buddy to try and get his vag-com. If I can't, I'll have to make a harness with an led. I got on the SJM site and printed off the no spark test so I'll run through them on monday and see what comes up. I'm gonna go snuggle up to a nice cup of coffee and read the Bentley.











_Modified by spasticone at 7:51 PM 12-13-2008_


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## yodasfro (Oct 2, 2004)

*Re: (spasticone)*

You could just install a bulb in the the cluster bulb size is 12 1.2w pn#2721 it's a baseless bulb osram or Sylvania. I presume you have all the timing marks lined up correctly? I would make sure the timing pin is still on the back side of the flywheel two ways to check 1 pull the starter and turn the motor over by hand till you see it or 2 remove the crank sensors and turn the motor over till you can see it through the hole where the sensors go.
Section 28.32 in the bentley engine manual.




_Modified by yodasfro at 8:08 PM 12-19-2008_


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (yodasfro)*

Ok... I pulled codes with Vag-Com. I get a 
0513 Engine Speed sensor 
27-10 implausable signal intermittant
0513 Engine speed sensor
No signal 
In the morning I'm going to see if I can find the pin in the flywheel and pull the sensor and check it out. Am I on the right track? Any help is, as always, GREATLY appreciated.


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## yodasfro (Oct 2, 2004)

*Re: (spasticone)*

You will normally get the engine speed sensor(RPM sensor) code when reading the codes with the car off cause it's not running. The 27_10 seems fishy. The rpm sensor reads the the flywheel teeth not the timing pin(that would be the ign.timing sensor). I would pull the sensors or the starter and check for the pin or chewed up ring gear teeth. I'd also test both the sensors with a multimeter should be around 1000 ohms between pins 1 and 2. section 28.34 in the bentley engine manual.



_Modified by yodasfro at 8:10 PM 12-19-2008_


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

*FV-QR*

It's alive... Limping along... lol. It was a bad connection to the coil. I now need a MAF to fix a prior problem it was having before the no run. Lot's to do to it yet, but that's a big relief. Thanks so much for the help. 
Can you clean the MAFs for this? It say no signal from VC. Thanks again.


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## yodasfro (Oct 2, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (spasticone)*

Clean the maf with maf cleaner. The maf has a hot wire burn off that cleans itself after you shut off the car, but cleaning the whole thing with maf cleaner won't hurt. Another fix is to use this stuff called stabilant 22 on the maf connector http://www.stabilant.com/sizes01h.htm. I'd try cleaning the connector too also make sure the pins are making contact. You can use a maf from the URS4/S6 which should help broaden your search for a good one.


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (yodasfro)*

I figured I'd give an update. I was away for the holiday so not much new since I left. I cleaned the MAF and it was still a no go. Craig ordered a used one and it should be sitting at home when I get there along with the stabilant for the new (used) one. I started taking the front end off to get to the alt bracket. I'll keep updating as progress continues.


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## yodasfro (Oct 2, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (spasticone)*

Did you erase the maf fault code?


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (yodasfro)*

Yup... Multiple times and then retested after any change.


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## yodasfro (Oct 2, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (spasticone)*

Is the car chipped? I'd be looking at the wastegate diaphragm and the wastegate frequency valve(n75) and any related hoses.
http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/....html


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (yodasfro)*

10-4. It is chipped and has, I believe, a stiffer wg spring. I'll check that out. It sat a while. I bet that diaphragm is going bad. I checked all the hoses. I can't find a leak. I may Pt the wg tomorrow. 
Thanks for the quick response!




_Modified by spasticone at 8:31 PM 2-8-2009_


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## spasticone (May 31, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Got it! It was a sticking dv. It runs like an animal. I can now see why you guys love these cars. I honestly thought it would be a big blah, since it weighs like 10000 pounds, but I was very wrong. 
All I can say is.... “Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." -Yoda... the master... lol


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