# VW LongLife Service Regime



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

5000 mile service is overkill if you look at this document:
http://www.vw.co.uk/assets/Longlife_servicing.pdf 
But VW doesn't turn on the service indicator that is built into the Touareg's computer.
thanks to matthewsjl for the document.


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (spockcat)*

Interesting. I wonder if the "Longlife" oil is available in the US? Could this be the synthetic that VW uses for servicing, hence it's higher cost? (I know, much of the higher cost is markup, but does anyone really know exactly which brand/variaty of oil is sold in the VW bottles?)


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## td_treg (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_5000 mile service is overkill if you look at this document:
But VW doesn't turn on the service indicator that is built into the Touareg's computer.


My car is currently at the dealership here in Switzerland to change the lighting system to local regulations. While doing so the service manager looked-up my VIN in his computer database and to my surprise it showed up. He saw all the specs of my US-Touareg. One of the codes' explanations was that I didn't have "LongLife". The service manager claimed that my US-Touareg wouldn't have the necessary sensors built in. I'm not sure if this is true or whether I just don't have the program activated. However, since Volkswagen even saved some money in reducing the wiring harness (no starter button wire, no rear fog light wire) it is possible that they also saved on the sensor.
Since I don't know what to look for I can't find out what is missing.


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (td_treg)*

Besides changing the front bulbs to white (and possibly wiring your rear fog), what else are they doing to the lighting system?

Also, does this system give you a count down on your milage until service (like BMW), and does it just give you an indicator when it's time?
I have tried to enable this using the VAG-COM, but nothing I did made any noticeable difference.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_I have tried to enable this using the VAG-COM, but nothing I did made any noticeable difference.

We tried to do matthewsjl's in NH. It was coded 3. I think on was 1 and off was 2 according to VAGCOM. So what the hell is 3?


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
We tried to do matthewsjl's in NH. It was coded 3. I think on was 1 and off was 2 according to VAGCOM. So what the hell is 3?

3 = "I wouldn't change this if I were you."


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (4x4s)*

I'm still willing to switch on the service indicator if we can work out how. Mostly when 'LongLife' or 'Extended life' is mentioned by manufacturers in Europe they are all referring to synthetic oil.
I think what we need is the VAG-COM dump from a European Treg. Also, as with most VW/Audi, the variable service intervals are based on Kilometers, not miles.
Just as a reference, most cars in Europe now run on fully synthetic oil. It's rare for a car to have an oil service at less than 10,000 miles and most manufacturers stretch the oil as far as 15,000 to 20,000 miles. Oil changes cost far more through dealers in the UK - hence a big drive on running costs is to extend the service interval.
Spock - if you go to http://www.vw.co.uk there is a nice flash animation on the V10.... it mutters something about the V10 being detuned so that the engine doesn't rip the chassis apart ;-)
John.


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (matthewsjl)*

I just looked up on the Audi.co.uk site to see if I could find out about service intervals. There is something better








There is the fleet data for the entire Audi range. I picked an Audi A4 2.5 TDI as a reference (and diesel is typically harder on oil than gas powered engines due to the higher compression).
For the A4 it gives various options for the service expectations:
High expectation - 22K miles
Typical expectation - 19.5K miles
Low expectation - 10K miles
So you see where we go for oil changes in Europe. Before anybody comments that this is too long - the manufacturers would not recommend these intervals if it was going to cost them money in engine repairs.
John.


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## dsacks (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (matthewsjl)*

Wouldn't be so sure -- see:
http://www.autosafety.org/arti...d=122


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (dsacks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dsacks* »_Changes for '05
VW is requiring its dealers to use synthetic oil and a larger oil filter in the 2005 Passat and A4. Some 2005 A4s are in dealerships. The 2005 Passat will arrive in October.
A National Highway Traffic Safety Administration source said the agency has had 12 to 15 sludge complaints for 2000 to 2004 Passats and A4s. one complaint was about an engine seizure.
VWoA will pay the cost of replacing an engine. For example, an independent repair shop in Tennessee that just replaced a sludge-damaged engine in a 1999 Passat charged the customer $2,500. Of that, $1,400 was for labor. The customer would be eligible for a reimbursement if he can show that he was having the oil changed as recommended.
VW dealers are seeing the problem mostly with owners who don't follow the recommended oil change intervals, said Gene Langan, of Gene Langan Volkswagen Inc. in Glastonbury, Conn.
"I've seen a few cases," he said. "It seems to happen mostly when we can't verify oil change history, when people don't do them for 20,000 miles. I think that this is a problem that is pretty broad in the industry right now."
VW owners will pay more for an oil change with synthetic oil, Langan said. An oil change with regular oil costs about $30, he said. It's about $65 with synthetic oil.
In its letter to Passat and A4 owners, VW says that it will cover necessary engine repairs if oil sludge causes a problem and the vehicle owner could provide proof of oil changes. Oil changes would have to be according to VW-recommended maintenance schedules. VW recommends that oil be changed at 5,000 miles or six months.

I had a read of this - five years ago in Europe the oil change intervals were approximately 10,000 miles for gas and 5,000 miles for diesel. This was not using fully synthetic oil. 
Fully synthetic oils have been around and in common use for at least the last three years by VW/Audi/BMW (that I know of). It's since the switch to synthetic oils that the service intervals have been increasing.
I have a 2004 VW Golf VR6 that went for a 5000 mile service recently. Cheap oil service but the oil used was *not* synthetic. If you have a VR6 serviced in the UK, the oil used will be synthetic and the interval at least 12,000 miles - possibly 20,000 (it's been a while since I've checked).
John.


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## Vega (Jul 28, 2004)

That article seemed to be based more on diesel service. Anyways, when you take your Touareg in to get serviced do they do anything with the computer to "reset" it? My dealer was saying I NEED to bring it into the dealer to do the oil change because of this. What gives? Is this something I could reset with a VAG-COM? Any warranty issues not bringing it into the dealer.


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## td_treg (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_Besides changing the front bulbs to white (and possibly wiring your rear fog), what else are they doing to the lighting system?


I'm sorry that I can't tell you yet. It seems that they will need the car for one more day. I assume that the necessary modifications (or the addition of a phone system) takes too long. I'll pick up the vehicle on Friday and will hopefully know more.


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_We tried to do matthewsjl's in NH. It was coded 3. I think on was 1 and off was 2 according to VAGCOM. So what the hell is 3?

I've been digging a little on other VW variants. In models where variable service intervals is an option, the options seem to lie as follows:
0 - Firm interval without indicator for oil level/temperature (QG0)
1 - Flexible interval with indicator for oil level/temperature (QG1)
2 - Firm interval with indicator for oil level/temperature (QG2)
3 - Vehicles without service interval announcement (the USA, Canada)
So 3 would be 'off' for the USA.
VAG-COM on order. More playing required.
John.


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (matthewsjl)*

Yeah, I tried coding to one or two, and I did not see any difference. I'll play with it again the next time I hook up. I would still like to know how the service interval systems manifests itself so I can check operation. Maybe TD_Treg can check one of the dealerships vehicles for us!


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (aircooled)*

I posted in the UK Touareg forum and got this information.
The system only notifies that a service is due about 500 miles beforehand. Even if we turn on the system you won't know about it until the system thinks the service is due.
It may be that some blocks in the module count down - these may be visible but we'd need to get VAG stuff from a car with it activated.
John.


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (matthewsjl)*

More evidence of the longer service intervals from the Bentley manual:

_Quote »_Lubrication system components, removing and installing
Engine oil specifications
Long-life engine oil
New VW standard (specifically developed, aging resistant)
Initial filling: VW standard 503 00 (VW TL 52 173)
Note:
The engine is filled at the factory with engine oil conforming to VW standard 503 00. This oil is designed for long service intervals Engine oils conforming to VW standard 500 00, 501 01 or 502 00 can be used afterward. These oils must be changed every 12 months or 15,000 kilometers. The service interval display must be programmed ccordingly.


and the very next document:

_Quote »_Oil system capacity: With oil filter 6.3 ltr.
Engine oil specifications:
Use "long life engine oils" in compliance with VW standard
503 01 .
Note: The engine is filled at the factory with engine oil
complying to VW standard 503 01 .
Engine oils complying to VW standards 502 00 and 505 01 may continue to be used. The oils must be changed every 12 months or every 15,000 km.


This seems slightly different - based on the capacities mentioned, the first quote is for the V8 (7.5l oil capacity mentioned elsewhere in the doc) and the second quote relates to the V6.
If this is right, the V8 and V6 have different initial fills.
Currently searching the Bentley manual to see if I can find where the viscosity sensor is on the engine (3.2l).
John.


_Modified by matthewsjl at 1:44 AM 10-14-2004_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (matthewsjl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *matthewsjl* »_More evidence of the longer service intervals from the Bentley manual:
and the very next document:
This seems slightly different - based on the capacities mentioned, the first quote is for the V8 (7.5l oil capacity mentioned elsewhere in the doc) and the second quote relates to the V6.
If this is right, the V8 and V6 have different initial fills.
Currently searching the Bentley manual to see if I can find where the viscosity sensor is on the engine (3.2l).
John.

_Modified by matthewsjl at 1:44 AM 10-14-2004_

There aren't viscosity sensors on any of the engines according to the electronic catalogs. The catalogs are for all models worldwide.


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: VW LongLife Service Regime (spockcat)*

That kind of makes sense (although I had seen it mentioned elsewhere).
I know for a fact that BMW originally had a very fancy way of determining the service interval measuring all sorts of engine parameters and coming to a conclusion based on the measurements taken.
After a while they found that all the measurements taken directly correlated to the measurement taken for fuel consumption - so they dumped the rest and just measured on fuel consumption








Thanks for the info - I'll stop searching.
Cheers,
John.


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

OK, the VAG-COM arrived








I had another look at the various information I could find about the variable service intervals. There seems to be a few blocks of information in 17 group 40-46 on the Touareg:
40 Insp in 1 00km Value=3
41 Insp in 1 Days Value=276
42 Oil in 1 000km Value=15
43 Oil in 1 000km Value=30
44 Insp in 1 Days Value=730
45 Oil Value= 2 (think this means longlife)
46 Consumption Liters Value=7
Group 2 seems to be the 'Service due' indicator according to the various docs out there. I tried to set a value of '1' and it wouldn't take.
I have recoded the instrument cluster to use variable service intervals again. There is no noticable difference (ie: no start up messages etc).
The only description of the fields I could find was for the new Golf (from http://www.openobd.org):
- > channel 40 (driven way STR since last service)
The input of the respective desired value is only in steps from 100 km possible, thus effected also the announcement in the display.
JM> I can't work out how my car only shows 300km as the indicated value.
- > channel 41 (time since last service)
The input of the respective desired value is only in steps from days possible, thus effected also the announcement in the display in days.
JM> I'm pretty sure that this is counting up in days on my var. 276 days ago was the 12th Jan - my car was a Dec03 build and this would fit with the PDI at the port or dealer.
- > channel 42 (minimum km road performance)
The indication takes place in 100km (150x100=15.000km).
150 - fixed service interval (15.000km)
- > channel 43 (maximum km road performance)
The indication takes place in 100km (e.g. 150x100=15.000km).
300 - flexible service interval (30.000km)
-> channel 44 (maximum time interval)
The indication takes place in days.
730 - flexible wartungsintervall (24 months)
- > channel 45 (oil quality)
1 - fixed service interval
2 - flexible service interval
- > channel 46 (total consumption quantity) (only gasoline)
The value indicated in litres represents not actual consumption, but an arithmetic procedure for the service announcement from different engine data and run achievement.
Cheers,
John.


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*

OK,
Have definately worked out some of these fields.
40 - looks to be the distance driven since the service interval was reset
41 - is counting up in days. This is the number of days since the service interval indicator was reset to 0.
46 - looks to be the amount of fuel consumed by the engine since the service interval was reset. This probably is involved in the calculation of service time as in indicator of how hard the engine has been driven.
John.


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## doublee (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*

matthewsjl,
what's the latest?
Is word 17 correct and your intrepretations?
Could you please revise your other previous post where I can't follow the 100's vs. 1000's in the words 42 & 43. (The overview says 1 000 km but the explanation says x 100 km)
I will face some investigations myself and I am schduled on Monday, Feb. 21st for service. So I expect to see changes, right?


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: (doublee)*

Haven't plugged the VAG-COM into the Touareg in a while. I'll check the values and get back to you.
VW in the USA disables the variable service interval calcs.
I enabled mine just out of curiosity.
As for the difference in the 100 and 1000's - I used two sources. The VAG-COM labels and openodb.org.
I'll check which one is correct.
John.


_Modified by matthewsjl at 7:51 PM 2-15-2005_


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## doublee (Jun 1, 2004)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*

matthewsjl,
just to confirm with you:
My service indicator (word 17, digit 2) was turned off = "3" .
Consequently, the groups 40 - 46 have not been activated to record any data. And, group 2 indicated "Service Done" = "0". I could not set it to "1" either.
Then, I turned the service indicator on = "1" (word 17, digit 2: "3" => "1"). Then I took a small lap w/ the Treg and the groups 40 - 46 started recording data.
Then I set the group 40 to a driven distance that was larger than the threshold in group 4x. The result was that the "Service Now" indicator went on in my MFI and group 2 was set to "1" = "Service Due". This setting is latched, i.e. when I reset the group 40 (distance driven since service) to 0, the service indicator would not reset. But I could reset it w/ the VAG. The reset of group 2 would also clear all the "recorders" in the groups 40 - 46.
Can you concur?


_Modified by doublee at 12:51 PM 2-17-2005_


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: (doublee)*

All the above sounds correct. I need to check my values (but the wife had nicked the Treg today).
John.


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*

New values from my truck tonight:
40 Insp in 1 00km Value=91
41 Insp in 1 Days Value=456
42 Oil in 1 000km Value=15 
43 Oil in 1 000km Value=30
44 Insp in 1 Days Value=730
45 Oil Value= 2 (think this means longlife)
46 Consumption Liters Value=359
No brainpower to interpret these now (see other threads about TPMS)









Cheers,
John.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*

The question that remains unanswered - which is the question that was raised by the Swiss service adviser - is whether the North American engines have the required sensor in the oil pan to detect thermal loads.
I enabled the flexible service interval program on my 2002 Golf TDI, but to do this, I had to replace the oil pan with a new oil pan that had the correct sensor in it - plus run the wiring from the sensor to the instrument cluster, plus do all the reprogramming.
Michael


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I think Spockcat looked up on the parts list for the V6 and V8 and didn't see any oil senders listed.
What makes me think that this is correct is that BMW experimented with their variable service interval algorithm. After building in a list of complex variables, they found that the data generated correlated directly to the amount of fuel used - so they ditched the other variables and now just measure on fuel used.... which is what the Treg measures (block 46).
Also, if the system was activated and the sender wasn't present, I would expect the Treg to throw a code!
John.


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## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *matthewsjl* »_I think Spockcat looked up on the parts list for the V6 and V8 and didn't see any oil senders listed.
What makes me think that this is correct is that BMW experimented with their variable service interval algorithm. After building in a list of complex variables, they found that the data generated correlated directly to the amount of fuel used - so they ditched the other variables and now just measure on fuel used.... which is what the Treg measures (block 46).
Also, if the system was activated and the sender wasn't present, I would expect the Treg to throw a code!
John.

My 03 is on "longlife" service scheme and I don't think it works on the amount of fuel used.
In fact the manual says that the service warning will depend on the way the car is driven but it gives an idea of 20k km (13k miles) before service will be required.


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: (jinxegg)*

That's more or less the point of the amount of fuel used measure. Heavy consumption will indicate a car that has been driven harder.
John.


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## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *matthewsjl* »_That's more or less the point of the amount of fuel used measure. Heavy consumption will indicate a car that has been driven harder.
John.

And how does it measure the "idling' fuel consumption to come up with the 13k miles estimate???
I can spend 1 hour idling in Athens city traffic, with 10 miles distance covered. Is this hard driving?


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: (jinxegg)*

I don't know the specifics - and it's a good question. Idling probably wouldn't be considered as hard as having your foot to the floor most of the time. However, being on/off the gas in traffic might be.....
All I do know is that BMW wrote a complex algorithm and changed it in favour of the simpler fuel consumption figure. The Touareg measurement blocks do indicate a consumption figure. Let's take my numbers as an example:
40 Insp in 1 00km Value=91
So, this is now showing 9100km. I set the system at around 5500miles and am now on 11,000 miles. This is about correct for the miles<=>km conversion
41 Insp in 1 Days Value=456
Counting up. This is the number of days since my car was PDId in the US.
42 Oil in 1 000km Value=15
Fixed interval service performance - not on longlife.
43 Oil in 1 000km Value=30
Max achievable mileage on longlife (30,000km=18,800miles).
44 Insp in 1 Days Value=730
Max number of days before the service indicator will show (2 years).
45 Oil Value= 2 (think this means longlife)
I got this directly from openodb.org
46 Consumption Liters Value=359
I don't know the units on this and this may take some working out. Ideas anybody?
Where did you get the 13,000m for the service from. Real world performance is typically never the same as the max. Was this the dealer telling you that it will be approximately 13,000m when the service light comes on, the manual or another source?
John.


_Modified by matthewsjl at 4:50 PM 4-13-2005_


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## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *matthewsjl* »_....43 Oil in 1 000km Value=30
Max achievable mileage on longlife (30,000km=18,800miles).
44 Insp in 1 Days Value=730
Max number of days before the service indicator will show (2 years).
John.

_Modified by matthewsjl at 4:50 PM 4-13-2005_

This is what the manual gives as max achievable too.
My dealer says will be difficult to get more than 13k miles in real life.
The fact is I never tested it.


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: (jinxegg)*

Do you have a VAG-COM?
Can you see what the values are in controller 17, block 40-46?
Thanks,
John.


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## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *matthewsjl* »_Do you have a VAG-COM?
Can you see what the values are in controller 17, block 40-46?
Thanks,
John.

No VAG-Com yet, keep saying to myself to order one and always busy,busy,busy.....








I'll see if I can check it with the dealers VAS. Which is con 17?


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: (jinxegg)*

17 = Instruments


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## kirklake13 (Apr 4, 2005)

*Re: VW UK link*

Thanks also for the UK link. Interesting to me are the options available outside the US. Such as the "Entertainment pack with roof level DVD." Colors available, multiple towing options, v6 diesel... When will the US catch up to the rest of the world.


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## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*

So, just to re-cap as this thread has been dead for a while.
I set my vehicle to the variable service notifications (as the European cars are) at 5500 miles.
Tonight when I started the Touareg it said: SERVICE 1900 MILES (or something very similiar).
So, as I'm now on 17,100 miles, this would seem to mean that the Touareg would need servicing at 19,000 miles.
We've already decuced that the cars don't measure the quality of the oil with sensors so it must base the service interval on driving style - and I think this links to fuel consumption (as it is a measured parameter and other manufacturers do the same).
So, my V6 thinks that according to the programming from VW, the car should be serviced 13,500 miles since the last service.
John.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*

Bottom line.... does changing this coding work for U.S. TOUAREGs?????


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *matthewsjl* »_So, just to re-cap as this thread has been dead for a while.
_I set my vehicle to the variable service notifications (as the European cars are) at 5500 miles.
Tonight when I started the Touareg it said: *SERVICE 1900 MILES* (or something very similiar)._
So, as I'm now on 17,100 miles, this would seem to mean that the Touareg would need servicing at 19,000 miles.
We've already decuced that the cars don't measure the quality of the oil with sensors so it must base the service interval on driving style - and I think this links to fuel consumption (as it is a measured parameter and other manufacturers do the same).
So, my V6 thinks that according to the programming from VW, the car should be serviced 13,500 miles since the last service.
John.


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_Bottom line.... does changing this coding work for U.S. TOUAREGs?????

You didn't understand the above?


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## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (matthewsjl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *matthewsjl* »_....So, my V6 thinks that according to the programming from VW, the car should be serviced 13,500 miles since the last service.
John.

It's correct, see my post on the previous page.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (jinxegg)*

My brain isn't that technical and at the end of reading everything I wasn't that sure!!!!


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