# 2.0L TFSI w/ open ITBs?



## Canadian2.0L8v (Sep 17, 2007)

Hey guys!
I had a question as I was little curious, please don't mind the noobiness of it. If I had a 2.0L TFSI, the 2.0T found in an 06 GTi, which has direct fuel injection and variable valve timing on both intake AND exhaust cams, would one be able to incorporated an open ITB setup (yes all while deleting the turbo) I'm curious because something doesn't click with the direct fuel injection and naturally aspirated. It's just that that engine has so many advantages in power and fuel economy, it would make a beastly N/A engine.
By the way, this is just a hypothetical question. Upgrading the turbo would be SOOO much easier and cost-effective than N/A tuning it. How much power would one expect from this type of modifications?
Thanks guys
James


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: 2.0L TFSI w/ open ITBs? (Canadian2.0L8v)*

You'd need to raise the CR from the turbo motor's for the NA to get all the benefits. But, I would expect around 100hp/liter with the proper set of cams and tune on ITB's. If not more.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 2.0L TFSI w/ open ITBs? (ps2375)*

I'm going to be doing an NA version of that motor with all the FSI junk taken off and converted to EFI. No real good way to keep FSI and change things from the factory configuration, LOTS of electronics to deal with.


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## rabbot16v (Jun 24, 2006)

*Re: 2.0L TFSI w/ open ITBs? (ps2375)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ps2375* »_You'd need to raise the CR from the turbo motor's for the NA to get all the benefits.

The FSI is already 10.5.1 compression.
That should be plenty to start with.


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## Canadian2.0L8v (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: 2.0L TFSI w/ open ITBs? (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_I'm going to be doing an NA version of that motor with all the FSI junk taken off and converted to EFI. No real good way to keep FSI and change things from the factory configuration, LOTS of electronics to deal with.

what's the difference between EFI and FSI? i mean, EFI is electronic fuel injection, but fsi? and what are the +s and -s of each? i thought FSI was the more recent engine model with latest upgrades. why would you want to convert to an older version?
im just asking 'cause im curious and i have no idea...








James


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: 2.0L TFSI w/ open ITBs? (Canadian2.0L8v)*

The FSI is Direct Injection. The injector squirts fuel directly into the cylinder, not in the port as EFI does. The fuel pressures are 20-40 times higher than EFI. And CR's can be higher as the timing of the fuel and the greater cooling effect of the fuel will allow this. Thus, the higher CR on the turbo motor. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The potentials for an NA motor are great, look at power levels for any Direct Injected motor(s) on the market now. But, it is not something any shade tree mechanic will install or modify easily.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 2.0L TFSI w/ open ITBs? (ps2375)*

Megasquirt can't run FSI (yet!) and I have a feeling that a pump that produces that high a pressure is losing more hp then it's gaining at high loads. Most of the benefits of FSI are not at full load.


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## Canadian2.0L8v (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: 2.0L TFSI w/ open ITBs? (ps2375)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ps2375* »_The FSI is Direct Injection. The injector squirts fuel directly into the cylinder, not in the port as EFI does. The fuel pressures are 20-40 times higher than EFI. And CR's can be higher as the timing of the fuel and the greater cooling effect of the fuel will allow this. Thus, the higher CR on the turbo motor. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The potentials for an NA motor are great, look at power levels for any Direct Injected motor(s) on the market now. But, it is not something any shade tree mechanic will install or modify easily. 

do you think it's realistic to expect about 220 whp from an NA FSI engine which would be powering a reasonable daily driver? I guess my concern with NA is that the more power you get, the more innefficient it is at lower rpm. ex. sputtering at idle, struggling to keep stable rpm at idle, poor low-end torque and power only in the 6k of the tachometer
...btw correct me if im wrong, there's still so much i don't know about NA tuning
James


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: 2.0L TFSI w/ open ITBs? (Canadian2.0L8v)*

It depends on the cams and the tune. The idle might be higher to be smooth, again depending upon cams. But it won't be a sputtering, ill tuned POS. The higher CR would help with lowend TQ. 


_Modified by ps2375 at 9:15 PM 12-13-2009_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 2.0L TFSI w/ open ITBs? (Canadian2.0L8v)*

Power goal is lofty for a VW 4cyl but who knows. VVT would help out with the low end.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: 2.0L TFSI w/ open ITBs? (need_a_VR6)*

I agree with that power goal on a motor w/ EFI and only 2L. But a DI motor w/ ITB's and VVT should be able to reach that mark. Whether it will be done on a production car is another story. I'd be willing to bet that a manufacturer would do it for a factory backed race car if the rules allowed it and it didn't get a performance penalty.
But, I don't see any easy way to do the ITB'd DI motor and get all the benefits of DI.


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: 2.0L TFSI w/ open ITBs? (ps2375)*

AFAIK,
Motec, BoschM and Delphi (probably a few others), are the only companies that make ECU's with Direct Injection control.
The benefits are there, but not at the cost it would require to make it work.
If you wanted to keep the FSI function, it would be easier to just get the NA FSI motor from the UK with full harness and ECU and start from that.


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