# TDI Recall



## Mattchew1 (Jan 7, 2015)

Aside from the decreased MPG, lower engine life-span, decreased torque, lower resale value, etc. I have one main question - how are they going to force the recall? Because I do *not *want it. With all the emissions of my TDI, I am still leaving a smaller footprint on the environment than, say, an Escalade.

Any questions, comments, insight into this disaster are welcome...


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## Acedestroyer (Sep 22, 2014)

*Golf TDI Drift King*

I love my lil 6 speed and racing it up hills, i dont wish for vw to install an extra tank that a horse is going to have to piss into to create clean emmisions. I work at a Costco gas station on some shifts and i've asked Diesel operators about how the mechanics of the urea based emissions control apparatus and they dont seem to like it.


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## shuko (Jul 24, 2007)

It will be a bigger fix than just an AdBlue system. The 2015 golf has one and it's still affected by Dieselgate.


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## Rockerchick (May 10, 2005)

shuko said:


> It will be a bigger fix than just an AdBlue system. The 2015 golf has one and it's still affected by Dieselgate.


The Passat has had it since 2012 and is part of it too. 

No way to really know whats up with the recall, what it will entail, how it will be enforced, etc. right now. At this point, its all just speculation. And I imagine its going to be a little while before VW really does figure something out.


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## FvckYouThatsHowGTI (Jun 12, 2015)

Mattchew1 said:


> Aside from the decreased MPG, lower engine life-span, decreased torque, lower resale value, etc. I have one main question - how are they going to force the recall? Because I do *not *want it. With all the emissions of my TDI, I am still leaving a smaller footprint on the environment than, say, an Escalade.
> 
> Any questions, comments, insight into this disaster are welcome...



Perhaps states could require you to show proof that your TDI was repaired/fixed before renewing your registration?  

Have a great day.

Consumer Reports notes:

_"While it is legal to sell the car, CARB and the California Department of Motor Vehicles may not allow the buyer to register the vehicle, and current owners may not be allowed to renew their registrations, until all the emission recall work has been completed."_


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## Retr0 (Aug 8, 2006)

So in my understanding the models that have AdBlue have the same firmware as the other TDIs, like my AdBlueless 2012 tdi Golf Wagon. So for those cars, likely all they will need is an engine flash.


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## 1998redwagon (Jul 28, 2011)

nox is a gas that you cannot see. the tailpipe and back of my car are clean, not because my tdi doesn't pollute, but because the exhaust system does a good job of controlling particulate matter but not nox. 

saying that you pollute more or less than a different make or model is useless without the data.

just saying ......


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## guachi (Sep 17, 2015)

Mattchew1 said:


> With all the emissions of my TDI, I am still leaving a smaller footprint on the environment than, say, an Escalade.


You'd be using less fuel, but your emissions are likely far higher than that of an Escalade that was in compliance with regulations. At least, your NOx emissions would be far higher and the other tracked emissions would be very close. I guess you'd have to weigh the tradeoff between lower CO2 emissions and higher NOx emissions. Personally, I'd trade 1/4 of the CO2 for 4x the NOx of an Escalade. But that's just me.


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

shuko said:


> It will be a bigger fix than just an AdBlue system. The 2015 golf has one and it's still affected by Dieselgate.





Retr0 said:


> So in my understanding the models that have AdBlue have the same firmware as the other TDIs, like my AdBlueless 2012 tdi Golf Wagon. So for those cars, likely all they will need is an engine flash.


Both of these statements are incorrect.


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## Nigification (Sep 27, 2015)

*LOL*

How much money are they going be losing? Thats crazy


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## wnowak1 (Sep 12, 2001)

Nigification said:


> How much money are they going be losing? Thats crazy


Who knows. Speculations are in the Billions. For that amount of money, they could have hired scientists,built a bigger lab, performed research, and this would never have been an issue.


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## H4x0rz (Nov 23, 2013)

If they have to install adblue in my wifes Jetta, they can have the car back. My golf has adblue already, so it should just be an ecu flash...


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

wnowak1 said:


> .....For that amount of money, they could have hired scientists,built a bigger lab, performed research, and this would never have been an issue.


To think that they did not know how to comply is just silly. VW has the resources to do anything.


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## planeguy (Feb 3, 2011)

I will say that I actually want to buy one of these TDI's used while the resale is down and before people get them "fixed" by the dealer. The only "problem" here is VW's compliance. As a consumer, emissions is a non-value added commodity, it does nothing for me. If performance is reduced in any way by the fix, which it will necessarily have to be, then I will have no interest. I say snap them up while you can! They can't and won't FORCE anyone to "fix" it in the USA at least. A non-fixed car may even command a premium in a few years over the fixed versions. but more likely is that it will be a boon to the aftermarket ecu tuners who will be able to revert any programming only fix.


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## Driver DNA (Oct 23, 2014)

So if I understand this right, since my 2015 Golf TDI has Adblue... it doesn't need any hardware added? And their solution will be to flash an update to the software that kills its performance!? If that's the case, I feel bait and switched. The entire reason I bought this car was because I liked the performance vs the mpg and emissions. I keep seeing and hearing people interviewed in the news talking about adding a urea tank or something... but that's what Adblue is right? I'm a little confused. They're talking about different models and most of the news articles I see and hear don't seem to have a good mechanical understanding how different diesel technologies work vs what is already in the newer VW models. I see someone above talking about the car slowly filling up a tank? I thought Mercs and BMW's used a very similar tech to Adblue? I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about this. All I know is I put adblue in the tank when I'm supposed to and it somehow cleans the emissions. What I'm trying to understand is, is there any chance VW is going to fix my 2015 Golf TDI SE so it works as advertised? If not, and they just flash the software at the cost of dropping performance, how much of a performance drop are we talking? And if it turns out they're not going to fix the cars to work as advertised willingly, are there any class action law suits that will seek to make VW responsible for doing it anyway? Is that even possible? All I know is I like the car I bought the way performs as it is now, and I want it to stay that way.... while still fixing the emissions issue. I'd like to know what my options are, that don't include 3rd party mods that will ruin the resale value of the vehicle.

(Also, there should really be a TDI section in these forums under VW. I was surprised there isn't one.)


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Driver DNA said:


> .....And their solution will be to flash an update to the software that kills its performance!?.....


How do you know this?


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## syncro87 (Apr 24, 2000)

Driver DNA said:


> (Also, there should really be a TDI section in these forums under VW. I was surprised there isn't one.)


You might take a peek at TDIclub dot com. Everything you ever wanted to know about TDIs.


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## [email protected] (Dec 12, 2001)

Driver DNA said:


> (Also, there should really be a TDI section in these forums under VW. I was surprised there isn't one.)


We do have TDI forums. Under the "VW Model Specific Forums" we break out discussion based on the model and generation of car so that owners of, say, a MKVII Golf can discuss that car regardless of engine. Under our technical forums you will find discussion forums dedicated to each version of the TDI engine.

-Tim


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## wnowak1 (Sep 12, 2001)

planeguy said:


> I will say that I actually want to buy one of these TDI's used while the resale is down and before people get them "fixed" by the dealer. The only "problem" here is VW's compliance. As a consumer, emissions is a non-value added commodity, it does nothing for me. If performance is reduced in any way by the fix, which it will necessarily have to be, then I will have no interest. I say snap them up while you can! They can't and won't FORCE anyone to "fix" it in the USA at least. A non-fixed car may even command a premium in a few years over the fixed versions. but more likely is that it will be a boon to the aftermarket ecu tuners who will be able to revert any programming only fix.


They can enforce it by not allowing you to reregister the car. In IL for example, if your car does not pass emissions, then you cannot buy the registration sticker. Same could be done for Diesel VWs.


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## MotoTDI (Sep 25, 2015)

*The VW E189 Engine Smoking Gun - USA Long Term Durability / Reliability*

Several diesel engine manufacturers tried to develop solutions to avoid embracing SCR emissions compliance in the USA and failed.

VW has more than likely performed long-term durability tests on the E189 engine over the last 5 years *with the vehicle in full defeat mode*. If the E189 engines in the USA had to run long-term under the defeat mode configuration used to pass certifications we would possibly have the reason for this deception. 

As an owner of a 2010 TDI with 39K miles, my concern of a retrofit would be the long term reliability of my vehicle (everyone is focusing on mileage and performance at the expense of long-term reliability).



Struggled to meet 2010 NOx Requirements
Refused to go the SCR Route
Implemented a Solution That Failed
Covered Up the Problem
Engine Reliability Problems Surfaced
Class Action Law Siuts Began
Manufacturer Lost Sales
Resale Values of Trucks with Maxxforce Engine Declined


Google Navistar Maxxforce 7 Emissions For An Interesting Read
http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/diesel-egr-urea







Lawsuits Contend...

The suit alleges that Navistar and, specifically, company management were aware of the issues with the MaxxForce EGR system but chose to ignore the problems. “It should have been obvious that raising engine heat to such high levels would lead to breakdowns and component part failure,” said Clay Miller, partner with Miller Weisbrod, the law firm representing the truckers.

The suit says the fact that Navistar discontinued the sale of its MaxxForce engines in 2012 after higher-than-anticipated warranty claims further validates their allegations. The law firm was also involved in a lawsuit against Caterpillar in 2007 for emissions-related problems. That case was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

wnowak1 said:


> They can enforce it by not allowing you to reregister the car. In IL for example, if your car does not pass emissions, then you cannot buy the registration sticker. Same could be done for Diesel VWs.


Yes, but how many areas in the USA even have vehicle inspections of registration? Not where I live.


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## JeepinGLI (Nov 10, 2005)

Mattchew1 said:


> Aside from the decreased MPG, lower engine life-span, decreased torque, lower resale value, etc. *I have one main question - how are they going to force the recall? * Because I do *not *want it. With all the emissions of my TDI, I am still leaving a smaller footprint on the environment than, say, an Escalade.
> 
> Any questions, comments, insight into this disaster are welcome...


Unless you live somewhere like CA, I don't see you being forced to do the recall. If emissions are required in your area, you might be SOL. My $.02...these cars (EA 189) have enough mechanical issues as it is. I won't be taking my car in for a recall unless they SIGNIFICANTLY extend the warranty.


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

JeepinGLI said:


> My $.02...these cars (EA 189) have enough mechanical issues as it is.


That may be _your opinion_ - but it does not bear out statistically. MkVI Golfs are very reliable as to Consumer Reports and other agencies, and the TDI is just slightly off the highly-rated 2.5 engine. My car, which is a fairly typical very early TDI, needed to have a front HID light bulb replaced (~$20), an oxygen sensor (covered under warranty), and the blower resistor (<$20) - that's all in more than 5 1/2 years. YMMV.


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## JeepinGLI (Nov 10, 2005)

feels_road said:


> That may be _your opinion_ - but it does not bear out statistically. MkVI Golfs are very reliable as to Consumer Reports and other agencies, and the TDI is just slightly off the highly-rated 2.5 engine. My car, which is a fairly typical very early TDI, needed to have a *front *HID *light bulb replaced *(~$20), an oxygen sensor (covered under warranty), and the blower resistor (<$20) - that's all in more than 5 1/2 years. YMMV.


I've been there too. Also had three sets of floor mats replaced under warranty. It's a real clunker.


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

JeepinGLI said:


> I've been there too. Also had three sets of floor mats replaced under warranty. It's a real clunker.


Not sure whether you are joking - I think you are?


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## JeepinGLI (Nov 10, 2005)

feels_road said:


> Not sure whether you are joking - I think you are?


I've had three sets replaced, but yes...I was joking.:laugh::beer:


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