# Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service?



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

I have read others' experiences with dry seals, and treating with Krytox. Several people said that their dealers did this service, and considered it under warranty (I believe that some in Europe said it was even treated as a recall)
I have white spots/lines on my seals and showed them to my dealership's service dept. After I gave them the numbers for the lubricant (of which they had never heard), and showed them the white spots on my Eos, and the one in their lot, they took a few days to decide what to do.
When I called back, they had decided that it was not warranty work, but was simply "wax buildup" from waxing the car.
Now I don't think that the wax from my hand-waxing job is still built-up since 12/29, and the (excessive) washing it has received since has been at the dealership/shop (I am guessing that they use an automatic system, or at least spray on a liquid wax)
The dealership said I should print out any evidence I find and bring it in-- does anyone has any "concrete" statements that say that these spots are not normal? Any advice on how to distinguish "problem spots" from others?
I plan on buying Krytox for my own aplication, but would feel better if the dealership/VW addressed the issue and gave it official attention at least once. My dealership doesn't know much about the Eos, although they have referred to "the guy who was trained" for the Eos a couple of times. 
How do I get good, knowledgeable service on this new VW?
William


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (kghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kghia* »_How do I get good, knowledgeable service on this new VW?

The owner manual appears to make it pretty clear (page 25 of section 3.2) that the seals need to be maintained with the specified lubricant. My own personal opinion is that this falls into the 'owner maintenance responsibilities' category, same as washing the car, adding fluids as needed, and so forth.
In other words - if the seals need to be maintained with the lubricant as specified in the owner manual, by applying the lubricant to the areas of the seals that are illustrated by the blue ink in on the photo in the owner manual... I think you should buy some lubricant and apply it. I don't think this is a warranty issue, I think it is an owner responsibility.
If you are uncomfortable applying the lubricant yourself, I am sure you could ask the service department of the VW dealership to apply it for you, however, it would be reasonable for them to charge you for that service (as well as for the lubricant), same as if you asked them to add oil to the car, or to wash it for you, or to check the tire pressures.
Michael


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (PanEuropean)*

That was how I showed them what roof seal lubricant I meant -- the Eos owner's manual*
But in that discussion, some people said that the dealership said that treatment of drying seals on a new car (or squeaks, or white spots, or something) was considered a problem treated by VW or the dealership by someone trained for the Eos (and presumably with the roof in whatever positions are best for the procedure--A question that came up in the Krytox discussion in the forum)
I just haven't budgeted the next couple hundred for grease for the Eos, and both mine and the one in their lot have white spots on the seals. If it is just wax, then maybe I don't need to worry.
In the thread here, some said that the seals should (probably) only be treated a couple of times a year, so it seems that the seals _are_ prematurely drying _or something_.
Maybe I just need to buckle down to attacking problems on the Eos before going to the dealership, at least to knowing a lot of technical details and good maint.-- *thanks for keeping my head straight!*








If I am forced to do so, I can boot up Windows every time I need VW Eos Bentley manuals, but haven't chosen if maybe the subscription would be better (although not permanent). Probably should get ETKA too, although not off eBay.








I guess I should get those e-manuals before time to rotate my tires too, so I can know if they should be using the wax spray between the alloy wheels and the axle hub on the Eos.








William
_*pg reference which I found by looking up the Krytox discussion on the forums first...go computers! I wish there were a PDF version of the manual_


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (kghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kghia* »_ Several people said that their dealers did this service, and considered it under warranty (I believe that some in Europe said it was even treated as a recall)
William

William,
I don't recall anyone stating that lubricating the seals was covered under warranty (granted I didn't go back and re-read the entire thread). 
I do recall comments being made that the seals had been lubricated as part of the routine service, and I think one person posted that their dealership had lubricated the seals for free as customer service.
You could check to see if roof seal lubricating is listed as a service item, in which case you could expect this to be performed during recommended service intervals. 
I assume VW does what most manufactures do, provide a list of checks and actions performed at each service interval. e.g. at 5000 mi these 10 service checks are performed, at 10,000 mi these 25 service checks are performed, etc.
If roof seal lubrication is listed as a service item, you could assume the time to perform this part of the service is included in the labor portion of the cost.
Personally I'm going to lubricate the roof seals on a regular basis, and if they get lubricated again by the dealer, it's a bonus.
You're such a hands on enthusiast, I'm surprised you would entrust something like roof seal lubrication to someone else http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Kevin










_Modified by just4fun at 8:24 PM 2-14-2007_


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (just4fun)*

OK, i guess I just need to go ahead and ante-up some more money for grea$e.
I was thinking I would try to arrange some sort of group-buy, but I think the advice I got was right-- it isn't worth the hassle, unless maybe you can personally meet up with the people involved and not have to mail stuff. (like club buys)
William


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## nette (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (kghia)*

My seals started showing the white spots, without waxing the car. I bought the lubricant. I got my EOs last August and have lubricanted the seals twice. They look great. It is a necessary maintenance requirement, not a dealer warranty requirement.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (kghia)*

My Volkswagen dealer called me at home today: They had an Eos in with a complaint of water leaking from the roof, and asked me if I would like to come up and watch the troubleshooting and rectification of the problem. needless to say, I jumped at the opportunity.
I got to the dealership just as the initial water test (the baseline test) was being carried out. The dealer principal was sitting in the driver seat, and when he got out, his pants were soaked. This car leaked!
I then spent the whole rest of the morning with the Eos techs, took about 200 photos as they worked, and got the honour of holding the hose and spraying the car with a pretty massive blast of water for 15 minutes after all the work was done (the techs were all sitting inside, watching for leaks).
The outcome: *NOT A SINGLE DROP OF WATER INSIDE THE CAR!*
Within the next couple of days, I will post a complete writeup of what was done, what everything looked like before and after, and how the techs solved the problem. I am travelling this weekend (in Auburn Hills Friday, for a Phaeton forum tech issue discussion with our forum friends at VW, then in Chicago over the weekend for a mini GTG).
Here's a couple of hints, just to tease you:
*1)* Nothing was ever disassembled.
*2)* Not a single tool was ever brought anywhere near to the car.
*3)* Everyone in the dealership got a chance to feel a 'dry' (non-lubricated) roof seal, then to apply the special lubricant (VW Part Number G 052 172 A1) with their fingers, then to feel a properly lubricated seal.
*4)* There was a half a bottle of the G 052 172 A1 left over after the techs had fully lubricated every single seal on the whole car.
*5)* Some policy decisions were made about what to do at new car delivery time in the future to avoid having any more leak complaints in the future.
So, stay tuned. Hopefully I will have the photo-essay written up by Tuesday. I am VERY EXCITED about what I learned, and I think all of you folks will be too.
Michael


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (PanEuropean)*

very exciting!
Would the "policy decisions" be for that dealership, VW in Canada, or for US (or maybe NAR?)
I would love for there to be more required knowledge of the Eos at dealerships selling/servicing them, and it is great to hear that VW is teaching with roaming "lab exercises" for techs.
I look forward to your writeup & photos!
William


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (PanEuropean)*

Your dedication is amazing. I too look forward, with great interest, to your upcoming post.
Kevin










_Modified by just4fun at 6:11 AM 2-16-2007_


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## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_Your dedication is amazing. I to look forward, with great interest, to your upcoming post.
Kevin









So, Michael, the only question remaining is "WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO GET YOUR OWN EOS?"







Well, that and what are you going to do with that nice Phaeton of yours when the lease is up...
Richard


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## chris2.0tdsg (Nov 29, 2006)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (PanEuropean)*

Michael, 
Great you have done this. I am sure we are all anxiously waiting for your report out on this topic!
It will be on the day before the one i will be picking up my EOS from the dealer, so i will come prepared.
My dealer is aware of the lubricant, and will provide me with a bottle on delivery he told me.
Thanks in advance,
Chris.


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (PanEuropean)*

Your dealership makes me half tempted to drive up there for my warrantee work. If only I could find a dealership down here that was as interested in customer service!
Sigh.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (gilesrulz)*

Here's a sneak peek at two photos - doing the final water test. I'm holding the hose, and you can see the VW dealership Service Manager (Andrea) inside the car looking for leaks.
I'll do the write-up tonight, and hopefully get it posted tomorrow.
Michael
*Water Testing - The Car Passed The Test!*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (PanEuropean)*

Another photo:


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (PanEuropean)*

If the car was not brand new, I would expect to _have_ to do more maintanance, but I think that there is a reasonable expectation that the car will work if you have given it all of the proscribed maint.








And the operation of the car is what is warrantied-- not the procedures required if it fails to operate correctly. It is reasonable to think that the roof will operate as intended given normal upkeep and proscribed maintanance. "Seals" should seal, etc.
I find it funny that when I asked about emergency kit items, many people thought that I shouldn't bother bringing spare fuses or jumper cables, but I should be responsible to lubricating the roof *soon after first receiving the car* or suffer squeaks, rattles and *roof leaks*








It isn't even as if we are talking about 20,000 miles down the road-- I have not even reached my first oil change (unless there was a "break-in" change before 5k, but I was told there was NOT everytime I asked)
Now, I have not experienced leaks, although I have noticed some squeaks going down the road. If preventing leaky seals means a treatment every 10k, shouldn't that begin *after the first 10k?*
We are not talking about something to keep your dash shiny-- this an important treatment to ensure that you roof doesn't leak, and it *is needed before your car left the lot* in many cases (the seals on the Eos' at the dealership show the signs), it *costs $100* by VW's inflated price, VW is sending *special training* to the dealers but barely mentions it in the owner's manual.
I think that if VW told people "BTW there is a $100 service that your Eos needs _now_, or it may leak water quickly" right after the sale, there would be a lot of angry owners.
This is like telling people that they need a full oil change and service at *day one*, because it wasn't provided with a starting supply of clean oil-- and this maint. isn't even proscribed on a specific schedule!
I am fully ready to take care of my Eos, but I had the idea that if I maintained it according to schedule, other flaws of operation were warrantied against (not including it "getting dirty")
















William


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"? ?How to get good service? (kghia)*

William:
Please see this post: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks.
To keep all the related discussion in one place (on the new thread, link above), I am now going to lock this one up.
Michael


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