# MS1 knowledge needed



## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

So, I just acquired a used MS1 V3 unit that has a EFI4Tuning.com sticker on it. I have an OBD2 car. I have bugged Paul a bit and was just wondering a few things.

Do I really need a IAC (reading tells me it is just a controlled vacuum leak) or am I asking for trouble?

Sequential injection, do I need MS2 for that?

The IAT sensor, would it be better pre or post supercharger? Post will be hotter so I assume that is what I want...

What is this white goo stuff? It is not hard but not gel-like. Almost like a real chewy piece of caramel...



















Reading the Megamanual and MSExtra... So much to retain!


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

The white stuff is some kind of potting material to keep the clock crystal from getting damaged by vibration.

To go sequential you need MS2 running MS/Extra 3.X code as a minimum but it's far far easier to do with an MS3 and 3/X combo. The board would need to be modified extensively to use sequential with MS2. Of course you don't HAVE to go sequential, batch fire works fine.

An IAC isn't mandatory,but it can make things much easier, especially if you want to keep A/C.

Post supercharger would be the best place for an IAT sensor to get accurate temps going into the engine. But you may have some heat soak issues with it there. Use an open element sensor to help control this.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

How does batch fire do with mpgs?

Planning on using E85 as it is very plentiful and nearly a dollar cheaper here.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Still getting 30mpg+ with mine, obviously batch fire. Only thing I dont like about those molex connectors is how they block all the pins for the spare outputs.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

Some more help. I have looked at the manual but nothing concrete....










The purple wire goes from S12C to OPTOIN with a GOLD/RED/BLACK/BROWN resistor. Same resistor is at R45 and R46.

The grey wire goes from XG1 to TACHSELECT and the other side of the resistor is there.

What are these for? I read something about the VW Hall sensor but this resistor has me confused...

Also, there is no jumper from XG1 to XG2 so IDK what that purple one is for.


















What is in the Proto area? The blue wire comes from IGBT-IN to the right jumper to GOLD/BROWN/ORANGE/ORANGE to R26 and on.

The white wire connects to the +5v on the top of the Proto area to BROWN/BLACK/RED/GOLD resistor. There is connects the white wire and the left, open jumper which goes to Q6.

Thanks to any who can help.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

It looks like the first set of mods are the pullup for a VW hall effect sensor, and the second set for a MK1/MK2 ignition module. 

You're putting this on an ABA right? You don't want or need the hall mod since the ABA (and newer motors) has a 60-2 tooth trigger wheel and crank sensor. The board needs to get set up for VR input.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

So I need to desolder and resolder?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Yes, set:

Tachselect to VRin
Tsel to VRout (MS2) or VRoutINV (MS1)

The other mods sound like mods for the IGBT but dont' sound quite right. You want a 1k pullup to 5v (right side R24) from top D14, and then also jumper top D14 to any spare pin for your ignition output.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

im of the opinion that you dont _need_ an idle valve, especially if you arent planning on running this car in all seasons, everyday, and its just a weekend/nice weather toy.


also, absolutely put your IAT after the blower and intercooler, its not for sensing ambient air temp, its for sensing the temp of the air going in the engine


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

No intercooler as the engine won't be putting the S/C outside of it efficiency range at cruise, which is where I plan on keeping it.

The ISV is needed as this is my daily for now. A/C is not needed so that might be getting deleted or just not used.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

Just curious...

Can the MS1 run off the hall sensor on the ABA?


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

dodger21 said:


> Just curious...
> 
> Can the MS1 run off the hall sensor on the ABA?


No it's a single window trigger only meant to locate compression stroke for sequential.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

Ok, I checked out EFI4Tuning.com for the pin read-out. Here it is:










What is IGBT again? Do I need it? What is the purpose? Bottom side of the board says IGBT-IN. Goes to SPARK-A in the upper right corner of the connectors. When I read the manual, it is for MSII, which this isn't.

1k pull-up, what color resistor is it?

I am soldering for VR input. I don't need to to invert, correct?


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

So, it looks like I need the MS2 daughter board for ignition timing?

Dang. I thought this setup was gonna be pretty much plug and play...

FWIW, Paul, I wish I would have bought from you or built it myself.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

MS1 can do IGN, you will need extra code or the High Res code. The crank sensor will be what gives you the timing signal. I haven't run this particular setup yet, but you should be able to find the board config settings in the megamanual.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

That's the thing, for the V3 board, it basically just talks about the MS2 setup...


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Naw, I built a V3 board last year or so, and it was pretty straight forward about ign configuration setups. Independent of what chip was being used. Look here:http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/build_manual.htm


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

Ah! I forgot about MSExtra.com....


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I have done countless spark setups in ms1, totally do-able. 

I dont know why your led driver goes to igbtin. Is q16 populated?


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

I will tell you later. Taking a break from fitting in my supercharger.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

Yes, Q16 is populated.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

Upon some research:

R37 is not populated and Q16 just has heat sink grease. So this must be the VB921 chip, right?

Also, R43 doesn't have a resistor, just a unprotected wire. Like there should be a resistor surrounding it but there isn't any....


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Check steps #22 & 23 of the link I sent you, looks like R37 should be a wire and R43 should also be a wire. Then starting at step #26, that talks about the input stage assembly, follow the direction for the VR input. Look at you board and see how it is configured and make the necessary changes. You could go step by step and just follow them and see how yours is put together and go from there. Then you will know for sure how it is set up. The V3 board is way easier than the V2.2 board to mod for spark and other options.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

Ok, soldered the VR Sensor mods. 

FWIW, this is the diagram for the board from EFI4Tuning. 










Now, the board mods are for the GM IAT sensor. 

Anything else? Is this the only mods needed to run my car? 

Thanks for all the help guys!


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

If you did the mods as called for in the MegaManual, I think you should be good. If you look at the upper left corner of the pic you posted, that indicates their mods are for a hall sender input and that is with a 4 window dizzy. You should now be getting your tach input via the missing tooth wheel on the crank.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

Now what about the Proto area? That is the mods for the GM IAT sensor, right? Bottom right corner says "GM IAT and CLT Sensors". 

I am procrastinating but I want it to work somewhat out of the box.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

It is calibrated for the GM sensors. You can run the EZ therm program and re-calibrate the MS code for sensors with a diff temp/resistance curve. Some of the GM/Saturn coolant sensors have the M10X1 thread pitch that will fit right into the VW sensor position and the IAT sensor can fit most anywhere in the intake. 

The Proto area is for added circuitry to enable other features like Launch control... it is not needed for "normal" operation of the MS.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

I understand the proto area, I am asking about the mods. 

According to the pin read-out, it goes to Spark A. That little white wire...


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

That is the circuit to drive the VW ICM.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

For like a CIS-E? 

Ok. That's fine. I will just bypass it.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

To do that, you will either need to use an MSD or some other device to trigger the coil. To trigger the coil directly from the MS, you will need add a BIP373 transistor to handle the current needed to fire the coil.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

You can also drive the aba and early 12v distro coils with the led driver circuit.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

How so Paul?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

They have a built in ignitor.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

I meant how would you wire it?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

1k pullup on led and led top leg to spare pin, spare pin to center pin on the ign module.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

Ok, I am trying to find out what resistor I need???

I am googling about pull-up resistors but I am getting confused? Is there a specific pull up or is it a resistor that can handle 1k ohms?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

it IS a 1k ohm resistor that is used in a pull-up circuit.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

1k ohm 1/4 watt is good.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

Which LED should I use? D14, D15, D16?



> 1k pullup on led


When looking at the board, I notice a square hole and a round, which side would this be?



> led top leg


Which is the top leg?

If I had built it, I would understand it. :banghead:


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

dodger21 said:


> Which LED should I use? D14, D15, D16?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


D14

top leg is closest to the the heat sink.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

Thanks prof!

Might have it done and maybe running this weekend... Might.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

I got it soldered. Do I NEED any extra code?


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

dodger21 said:


> I got it soldered. Do I NEED any extra code?


Yeah, to run spark with MS1 it will require MS1/Extra Firmware. I would recommend the Hi-Res HR10 or HR11 as long as you don't have Low Impedance injectors ( they are not supported with the Hi-Res code. But 029y4 is good stable code as well.


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## dodger21 (Jan 24, 2011)

Thanks again! :thumbup:


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## Angrygilmore (Sep 28, 2008)

dodger21 said:


> How does batch fire do with mpgs?
> 
> Planning on using E85 as it is very plentiful and nearly a dollar cheaper here.


the digi 1 and early digi 2 cars were batch fire


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