# Does the Phaeton use a single standard 12V battery?



## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

I did a quick search but couldn't find the answer. With all the electric and electronic gizmos, you could probably use two batteries or move to a higher voltage system.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Does the Phaeton use a single standard 12V battery? (av_audi)*

All North American Phaetons are supplied with two batteries. All European Phaetons, except the 6 cylinder version, are supplied with two batteries. A second battery is optional on the 6 cylinder car.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Does the Phaeton use a single standard 12V battery? (av_audi)*

Here's a bit of additional information, with photos. The vehicle power supply battery (the one on the left) is the larger of the two, except on the V10 TDI, which has an equally large battery for the starter. In the past, both the W12 and V8 were fitted with an 85 Ah / 480 A vehicle power supply battery, and a 61 Ah / 330 A starter battery. A 75 Ah / 420 A vehicle power supply battery is being phased in on new production V8's.

The starter battery only provides power for starting the car (and associated relays and electronics involved in the start process), it is never used for any other purpose. If for any reason the starter battery is depleted, the driver can start the car, using the vehicle power supply battery as the source of starting power. The Phaeton on-board power supply control unit (J519 module) will do this automatically if a voltage level of less than 11 volts is detected on either battery.

The driver can also manually invoke the "emergency start" mode. This is done by turning the key fully to the clockwise (start) position, then fully anticlockwise to the accessory position, then to start again.

During cold weather operations (


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## Soki (Jul 26, 2004)

*Re: Does the Phaeton use a single standard 12V battery? (PanEuropean)*

I got two batteries in my car but i didn´t know that was a extra option. Do you know the equipment code/number for it?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Does the Phaeton use a single standard 12V battery? (Soki)*

Hi Soki:
It's tough to try and provide a production code that will apply to other vehicles, because there could be any number of production codes out there for different battery configurations. But, to give you a point of comparison, my own Phaeton has the following production code:
*J2A*: Battery Specification 330A (61 Ah) and 480A (85 Ah).
If you can make a scan or a photograph of the sticker in your owner manual that lists all the production codes, and email it to me, I will post a decoding of it here on the forum.
Michael


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

Thanks for all the very interesting information. I was a little surprised by the amperage capablities of the batteries, until you indicated that they get paired up in parallel during cold starts.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (av_audi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *av_audi* »_ ...I was a little surprised by the amperage capabilities of the batteries...

In what respect? Surprised that they were of such large capacity? By comparison, a 39 seat de Havilland Dash 8 Series 200 aircraft, equipped with two engines of nearly 3,000 horsepower each, only uses a 40 Ah battery for starting purposes... that's much smaller that either of the batteries in the Phaeton. That same 40 Ah battery also needs to be able to sustain all navigation and communication equipment for up to half an hour following a total electrical failure in flight, which it does quite adequately. If anything, I'd say the Phaeton is overpowered, in terms of battery capacity.
Michael


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_In what respect? Surprised that they were of such large capacity?

Just in comparison to many car batteries that are rated at 700A for cold cranking and close to 900A for regular cranking. Could it be that we are looking at different units?


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## move.over (Nov 25, 2004)

*Re: (av_audi)*

You are confusing SAE (860) with the DIN ( 480) numbers.







You know the rest of the world tends to use more sensible units. ( Have lived in the US for more then half my life but rather use metric untis, so much easier to use).
If you look at Michael's picture of the trunk battery you can see the markings pretty well.


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

Thanks for clarifying that.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (av_audi)*

Here's a better illustration showing where the two batteries are located, and the control components associated with them:
*Phaeton Batteries*
*







*


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Please rehost photos if and when possible.


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## R4DEK1 (Nov 6, 2010)

I dont know if it is poroper thread here but yesetrday I had some very stressful accident. It was something wrong because batter wasn't loading (I saw it on gauge). I decided to to dealership and during my way there car stopped on the road. But the biggest porblem was the fact that it was on tramway track in downtown:banghead: (it caused quiet big traffic jam, what a shame).
Unfortunetelly I thin it can be problem with alternator so somethint very expensive to repair.
Do you know something more about costs? Is it worth to repair? (I have no warranty)


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## Gammaray (Aug 30, 2009)

*Battery needle fluctuating!*

I am a new phaeton owner in CT. I've been researching cars for a while. As a 6 foot man I wanted something with space, luxury, speed and AWD without breaking the bank. Love the car! The best value for all that you get. 

Well as for my problem. Noticed the battery needle fluctuates on 14 oh so while driving. Also the overhead lights shimmer when turned on. Is it time for new batteries? Or could it an electrical issue?


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Do the lights shimmer when the engine is off also?

Why the handle, Gammaray?

Steve


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## Gammaray (Aug 30, 2009)

No. The lights do not shimmer when the car is off. Just on start up. I'm thinking a new battery. The car is at 70,000 miles and has had only one set.

As for the the name. Just a big fan of the Hulk.


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## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

*Mine does the same thing..*

Hello,

Mine has 69,300 miles on her, as of today (just turned).. My battery just started doing this in my car.. Sometimes the lights flicker when I've not been driving her for a few days, I get in her, let her warm up.. The voltage is around 13 or 14 I think.. 

My tech said the battery needs to be replaced, this was about 4-6 months ago.. I am going to order a new battery and controller end of the month and have both replaced.. She's getting to the point where I _may[I/] need to do the emergency starts.

You probably need to change the battery in your Phaeton too.

Thanks,_


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

Gammaray,
Congratulations on your purchase and welcome to the forum!
I'm concerned about the needle fluctuating: in mine and all the other Phaetons I have had an opportunity to drive it's rock-steady on 14 after starting. This, combined with the interior lights also fluctuating only when the engine is on could indicate an alternator charging problem more than a low battery problem. The condition of the alternator can be easily checked by the dealer with the appropriate tools or by you if you have access to an aftermarket tool. In the meantime, I suggest you try the following:
- turn on the engine with the transmission in park, move the car outside and let it idle.
- if the instrument needle and/or the interior lights fluctuate, accelerate and keep the engine running at a steady 3,500 or 4,000 revolutions. If the needle and lights stabilize I'd definitely suspect the alternator.
Stefano


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## Gammaray (Aug 30, 2009)

Thanks for the tips, fellow Phaetonians.

I'll get the dealer to check it out next week. Hopefully that's the case. The cars been rock solid from 47,000 to now at 71,000 miles. I put more work in my '97 Infiniti I30 a few years back.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Welcome Gammaray,

I don't know if your problem is battery related or not, but as you read through the forum you will find countless stories where electrical gremlins of all sorts have caused Phaeton owners and their mechanics to spend oodles of time and money chasing their tails, only to ultimately discover that simply replacing the left ("comfort") battery cured all ills. It's a few hundred dollars, and it's so critical to the enjoyment and reliablility of the Phaeton, that I would suggest if there's the slightest chance it's the culprit that you buy a new OEM one. Also, you might want to read these threads to gain a better understanding of this crucial component:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1900966#post19804242

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1686297



Regards,
Ron M.


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## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

remrem said:


> Welcome Gammaray,
> 
> I don't know if your problem is battery related or not, but as you read through the forum you will find countless stories where electrical gremlins of all sorts have caused Phaeton owners and their mechanics to spend oodles of time and money chasing their tails, only to ultimately discover that simply replacing the left ("comfort") battery cured all ills. /QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

Thanks to this forum, I didn't hesitate when the dealer told me both of my batteries were beginning to fail at the 100,000 mile service for my five-seater. Cost for the batteries was $190 for the 000-915-105-CE-DSP battery, and $110 for the 000-915-105-DE-DSP battery, with another $182.88 in labor.

Almost five hundred bucks on batteries. Ouch!

But...., the more I read about the problems, let alone the stress those problems cause, I would have to say money well spent.

Victor


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

VWGlf00GL said:


> My tech said the battery needs to be replaced, this was about 4-6 months ago.. I am going to order a new battery and controller end of the month and have both replaced.. She's getting to the point where I _may[I/] need to do the emergency starts.
> _


_

Hello VWGlf00GL,
I can fully understand that you are desperate for a new battery. But why replacing the charger controller? There is nothing in there that can wear and failure of electronics is pretty rare. Other than when your controller has version 2600 A or B, I don't see a reason for replacing it.
BTW, what is your first name?_


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## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

This thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2900753 helped me understand (somewhat) why it cost me $182.88 in labor to replace the two batteries. This is something all of the Do-it-yourself'ers should pay attention to.

Victor


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Hi Victor, 
It sure is a lot of work to re-adapt everything. It can be pretty annoying when you forget to do so. 
By the way, I don't think it is Phaeton-specific that everything with a motor needs re-adaptation. I remember such issues with my previous Audi A4 as well. Whenever the battery was drained for some reason, even the fuel level gauge indicated near zero, which was only solved after: 
1.) refuelling 
2. Then drive the amount of km up to when you think the tank has reached a level of about 10 litres or less. 
3.) Refuel again - which finally restores the normal functioning of the fuel gauge. 

I can't remember having see that particular gremlin on the Phaeton forum.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

WillemBal said:


> I can't remember having see that particular gremlin on the Phaeton forum.


 That sounds like a software glitch that is both controller-specific and software version specific. The Phaeton does have a few of those, but what you have described (affecting fuel gauge functionality in your Audi) is not one of them.

Michael


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## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

Ordered both the right and left batteries to day.

Both from Interstate:

Left spec:
MT5 AGM

30 Month
Free Replacement
900 CCA (Cold Cranking Amps)
Part # MT5-49/H8
AGM (absorbed glass mat) recommended for high-accessory-load vehicles including frequent plug-in use.


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## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

Are there special procedures to replace the batteries?


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

rrussell said:


> Are there special procedures to replace the batteries?


Yes. Check out the battery replacement procedure thread in the main forum sticky/FAQ.

Jason


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## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

Too late. I replaced both of them today.  I also installed the BlueStar (bluetooth adapter).


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## aaron843 (Oct 16, 2010)

*No emergency start*

When I turn the key right, left, and right, the emergency start does not work. It does not say "please start engine" like it is supposed to. The car can be jumped and it starts.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

There have been some other posts about the emergency start procedure not working in some cases. It was concluded that if the left battery is actually utterly flat it somehow inhibits the process.

It could also be that some relay or fuse was blown in those cars because the description of how it is wired and should work is quite clear.

The jury is still out.

Chris


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Paximus said:


> The jury is still out.


I thought Willem had made a judicial (or even magisterial) intervention and proved that the car will start with no left battery at all. And no right battery at all... 

Happy to be corrected....

But it does require all the right fuses to be intact too.

Regards

M


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## aaron843 (Oct 16, 2010)

*Fixed*

Turns out both batteries needed to be replaced. The left battery was 2 years old. The right battery I assume was the original (2005 year model). The car starts now. There was no warning that I noticed that the right battery was going. I am curious why the left battery only lasted 2 years. Any ideas?


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Mike:

You are spot on - I forgot that Thor, the daring god of electric sparks, had spoken. Or was it Willem?! I now remember it was one of them who braved electrical destruction and proved the point about engine cranking working with no battery... 


Hi Aaron:

I don't recall if it was you who put in the new battery in Oct 2009 or the car salesman. It is said that AGM batteries do not take kindly to complete discharge. Perhaps your car sat unused for a while?

If not, it is also said that 'equivalent' (lower cost) batteries have a shorter life and resilience than OEM ones.

Anyway, I am glad normal service is resumed!

Cheers,
Chris


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## Nobbby (Jun 27, 2014)

Hi 

I just bought an 06 Phaeton 3.0 V6, but I don't pick it up til Monday. If it doesn't have the two battery option, will the connections still be there for me to just buy a second battery and install it? Or was the option for the cables and terminals as well as the battery?

Great forum, I have learnt a lot without actually getting the car yet.


Thanks for any help you can offer.

Paul


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Nobbby said:


> Hi
> 
> I just bought an 06 Phaeton 3.0 V6, but I don't pick it up til Monday. If it doesn't have the two battery option, will the connections still be there for me to just buy a second battery and install it? Or was the option for the cables and terminals as well as the battery?
> 
> ...


Hi Paul - welcome to the fast expanding Lancashire Phaeton owners club! 

3.0 - so I assumed diesel? All Phaetons have two batteries, with the exception of some, but not all, 3.2V6 petrol engines. I'm pretty sure that if you did have a one-battery-Phaeton the challenge of fitting two would be insurmountable... 

Keep us posted on how you're getting on.

Regards

M


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