# Hella Micro DE as DRL's



## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

Hi,
I'm trying to find out if there's anyone currently running this setup. I'd like to know if winter or rain has caused your glass to crack due to the lights being on a lot longer than if they were just used as Fogs.
Thanks


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## Gern_Blanston (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

See my sig.


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (Gern_Blanston)*

So I'll bite - what's wrong with using a fog light as a DRL?


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## Gern_Blanston (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (dennisgli)*

If you want to use a DRL as intended, that is to let other people see you, good foglights don't work because they have a cutoff that doesn't allow much of their light up where people can see it.
And if you have lousy foglights, every driver on the road will suffer because of glare.
Here's a bit of foglight info from Daniel Stern.


_Modified by Gern_Blanston at 2:59 PM 10-28-2004_


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (Gern_Blanston)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gern_Blanston* »_If you want to use a DRL as intended, that is to let other people see you, good foglights don't work because they have a cutoff that doesn't allow much of their light up where people can see it.

As do E-code low beams. So are you saying that you should use high beams as DRLs?


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## Gern_Blanston (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (dennisgli)*

Actually, high beams (with lowered output, of course) would make great DRL's. Much much better than E-code low beams.


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (Gern_Blanston)*

I know your stance on fogs Gern, but I don't have much of a choice with my OEM HID's. I know I'll get stopped one of these days for just using my city lights...they're too dim.
If I knew which relay was the high beam one I'd tap in with a resistor to step down to about 1/2 power but noone has gotten back to me on that one.


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## Gern_Blanston (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

That would be the hot ticket. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (Gern_Blanston)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gern_Blanston* »_Actually, high beams (with lowered output, of course) would make great DRL's. Much much better than E-code low beams.

Got it. I originally disabled the DRLs on my MkIV Jetta because I think it makes the "high beam flash" less noticable during the day. So I was thinking about using the fogs as DRLs when I install my E-codes. But if a fog light is so ineffective as a DRL compared to a non-E-code low beam maybe I'll just skip the DRL alltogether. I don't want to use the E-code high beams for the above reason. Plus I'm concerned that running the high beams at a significantly reduced power would be bad for the halogen bulbs - particullarly since I'm planning on running 100watt hight beams! How low do you think you'd have to go?
But don't some other NA cars use fog lights as DRLs?


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mtltdi* »_If I knew which relay was the high beam one I'd tap in with a resistor to step down to about 1/2 power but noone has gotten back to me on that one.

Did you install a relay for the high beams when you installed your HIDs? It should be pretty easy to add a resistor - though it's going to have to be a pretty big resistor! I wonder how it work to just run the two high beam bulbs in series as a DRL? Then you wouldn't even need the resistor.


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## Gern_Blanston (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (dennisgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dennisgli* »_
But don't some other NA cars use fog lights as DRLs?

Probably, but drive at night with NA Jetta lights, and you realize that NA lighting doesn't make any sense at all.


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (Gern_Blanston)*

Thanks. I think you've convinced me to try the fog lights as DRLs.


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (dennisgli)*

hmm, I'll have to look into this...running them in series business.
Finding a suitable resistor which wouldn't burn a hole under my dash was an issue.


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## dmkozak (Aug 22, 2001)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (dennisgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dennisgli* »_Thanks. I think you've convinced me to try the fog lights as DRLs. 

!. Do you have a Euro switch?
2. If so, please turn on your city (parking) lights and pull out your fog light switch. (No headlights, just city and fog.)
3. Go look at your fog lights. Are they big/bright enough to be seen by oncoming drivers? Mine aren't. They light up the road in front of the car, but don't have a broad enough pattern to be anything more than two "little" light sources to oncoming traffic. Being as low as they are, and only projecting light downward, I don't think they'd be effective as DRL's. (I've thought about this and asked people driving toward me if they noticed the DE's on with the city lights. They pretty much all said the DE's weren't noticable by themselves. This pretty much defeats the purpose of using them as DRL's.)

_Modified by dmkozak at 3:14 PM 10-31-2004_

_Modified by dmkozak at 3:17 PM 10-31-2004_


_Modified by dmkozak at 3:18 PM 10-31-2004_


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (dmkozak)*

That sucks. I still haven't received my DE's so I'm not sure how they would work on my car. I have a dark color so I think anything would be better than just the city lights.
If I'm heading anywhere further than a 1/2 hour away I turn on the HID's.
If the DE's were good enough to keep the police happy and keep other motorists aware that I'm moving towards them I'd be happy enough. I wonder if the Audi's have driving lights or fogs as htheir DRL's because I can definitely see them coming towards me.
I noticed they also have their parking lights lit at the same time though.


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## dmkozak (Aug 22, 2001)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

I hope I didn't give you the impression I don't think Micro DE's are good as fog/aux driving lights. I think they're great. But, from a driver's view, they're only good when the natural light is bad. If I turn them on in the daylight, I can't even tell they're on. If you see someone with Micro DE's on during the day, it looks like they've two little dim lights in the bottom of their bumper. For fog lights or auxiliary driving lights in dark rural driving, they're really good. For DRL's they're probably worthless.


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (dmkozak)*

well, it looks like I have a real problem then. I can live without fogs, but DRL's are seriously needed, especially with short winter days coming up fast.


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

running the high beams in series at 1/2 power sounds good, but how do you run highs in series when they have a common ground for the high and low beams in the headlight harness? Maybe this wouldn't affect the functioning of my blinkers and city lights?
I might have to try this and pray that I don't blow anything.


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

Doesn't Hella also make DRLs that install down where the fog lights are? Are you willing to give up the fog lights and just live with the HID low beams for fog?

_Quote, originally posted by *mtltdi* »_running the high beams in series at 1/2 power sounds good, but how do you run highs in series when they have a common ground for the high and low beams in the headlight harness?

Yes, you would have to disconnect one of the high beams from the ground. Wire the ground to pin 30 on a relay; wire 87a to ground; and 87 to fused power.


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (dennisgli)*

Hi, could you give me an idea where my trigger wire should be connected, pole 85?
Do I need diodes?
TIA


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

Not sure why you'd need diodes. The idea is to operate the relay for DRLs - so you'd need to disconnect the wire coming from the existing DRL changeover relay and connect it to the new relay (and add a fuse). The only issue I see is dealing with the high beam flash circuit when the DRLs are on. You could probably get away with connecting the other side of the new relay's coil to the high beam lead so that it would drop out when you flash - but you'd need to make sure that the new relay will remain operated with only half voltage - which I think the standard Bosch relay will. Note that the high beam indicator light in the dash will also be lit half way with the DRLs on. Not sure how you'd do better than this without more relays.


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (dennisgli)*

This is way to complex for me at this point. I've decided to get the Micro DE's, point them up a bit higher than they should be (a bit above the intended cutoff point) connect them in series for 1/2 power and hopefully a lot less heat.
They will not be connected to my front fog setting on the euroswitch, they'll be DRL's exclusively. The HID's light up wherever the fogs would have shone anyways, and I can adjust their cutoff at will with the rheostat.
If anyone gets DennisGLI's ideas implemented take lots of pictures and THEN I may find the courage to hook up everything like he pointed out, at this point I don't have the electrical knowledge to do it,







Maybe one day. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

How about these.

_Quote »_








VW Golf IV Daytime Running Light Set
Golf IV (09/97 ->)
Item Number: 2PT 008 816-801


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (dennisgli)*

I've emailed all over the place, noone can get them in N.A.


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

Hey, I'm running out of ideas for you







. Well, one more... the fog lights in the Hella Jetta E-codes look like projectors with a baffle for the beam cut-off. If the DE fogs are the same maybe you could remove the baffle and get a beam pattern that would work well as DRLs. I'm not convinced that the bulbs in series idea is going to produce enough light - and it probably won't be too good for a halogen bulb.
Let us know what you end up doing and how it works!


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

TMtuning.com looks like they'll ship to the US.


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## Lasrsktr (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (dennisgli)*

i wish i had a better picture from far away with the Micro De's lit up but they look nice during the day. They are not run as my DRL's but they were still pretty much the same.


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (Lasrsktr)*

That's one sweet car! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I may try flipping the housings so they glare up for my DRL experiment. I won't use them as Fogs at all so they'll only be on during the day.


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## Hid_Mann (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

Have a look at ebay.de.... they've been there since early last year.


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (Hid_Mann)*

Well, the DE's are in, wired in series they do not get hot at all, which will probably extend the life of the glass given the cold weather coming up. I installed them upside down to avoid the cutoff which would make them unnoticeable during the day. They shine up nicely and are noticeable from very far away.
I'm finally free from turning my lights on every time I use the car.
They are not used as fogs at all, and will never glare up in the face of oncoming drivers.
I've logged the install date and will see how long the bulbs last when run at 50% power.


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## Lasrsktr (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

nice show pictures..... even though they won't do much to show the visibility


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (Lasrsktr)*

I'll take some tomorrow. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ardiinc (Oct 24, 2004)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I've Hella's DRL in my Golf. They do much light with only 6watt bulb!
Light is not shielded, so is like an hi-beam with reduced power.
For me was the best choise cause I don't want to use my HID's every time I started the car


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (ardiinc)*

Do you have the real DRL's with the rectangular light reflector or just Micro DE's with a 6w bulb in it?


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## Lasrsktr (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

i think being in italy he has the real drl's


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## ardiinc (Oct 24, 2004)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (Lasrsktr)*

I have the real DRL's, these one



















_Modified by ardiinc at 6:43 PM 11-19-2004_


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (ardiinc)*

I can't see your pics.


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## ardiinc (Oct 24, 2004)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

Sorry I'm a newbie....
Try now


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (ardiinc)*

sweet, and only 6 watt bulbs!!
Got any other pics of your tdi? That car would be the bomb over here in North America. Tons of torque, fuel economy and 4-Motion!!


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## ardiinc (Oct 24, 2004)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

Not now... (I have to clean the car before post foto














)
I'm very very happy of my car.
More torque than I expexted. Friends of mine increase torque to 420 and HP to 200 !!!! But only for few weeks then they return to 180Hp 380 torque to preserve engine


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (ardiinc)*









Here's a sunny daytime pic of mine.


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*


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## ardiinc (Oct 24, 2004)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

As soon as possible I'll post mine!


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## RIVWMKIV (May 27, 2004)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (dennisgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dennisgli* »_"high beam flash"

Just for the record it is called "flash to pass".


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## mhackett (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (Gern_Blanston)*

Guess I missed this first time around, but if anyone is interested, here is some work I did on this when I apparently had too much time on my hands: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=924069
Ecode lowbeams make reasonable DRLs because they have enough uplight to illuminate overhead signs. Certainly more than good foglights do. Golf Ecode highbeams make lousy DRLs, the beam is just too narrow. DRLs are for more than just traffic directly in front of you.
The raised foglight solution here isn't bad, really. Main problem is it wouldn't be recognized as a legal implementation for this car, should a situation ever arise where that became an issue. I like those euro 6-watt dedicated DRLs, but am avoiding going that way for that reason.
Mike


_Modified by mhackett at 10:36 AM 12-8-2004_


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mhackett)*

Back from the dead.
Well I just won an ebay.de auction for a set of real Hella Golf IV DRL's like ardiinc has on his car, comparison pics with my Micro DE's will be up once they come in.


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

Well the lights came in yesterday, it's a nicely put together kit with a nice wiring harness, these should be installe and pics posted sometime tommorow if all goes well.


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*


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## www.Euro-Cullen.com (May 3, 2005)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

The term *DRL* refers to two different things in North America and Europe


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (www.Euro-Cullen.com)*

please elaborate.


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## www.Euro-Cullen.com (May 3, 2005)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mtltdi* »_please elaborate. 

What you show on your car is what we in Europe talk about as DRL, typically seperate units with 21w or so bulbs in them as attention getters.
In North America there is a circuit that activates your normal headlight bulbs (usually but not always on older cars) at a lower voltage than intended for the bulbs, lighting them up less than at night.
Yes it seems backwards as in fact you would need brighter lights in daylight to catch attention







This DRL function on US spec VW's is what most VW enthusiast try to deactivate.


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (www.Euro-Cullen.com)*

I have them as attention getters as you call them, I deactivated my headlight TFL connection and moved it to these lights as I have HID's and do not want to run them on a reduced voltage. Here in Canada DRL's are required by law so I'm one of the minority who wish to remain as inconspicuous as possible to the police since my coveted headlights are technically illegal in North America.
I replaced the Micro DE's that I originally had for this function as the light is much smaller and I feel harder to see in daytime than these ones. I just hope I don't break one of these as I'll have to get replacements from overseas.


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## www.Euro-Cullen.com (May 3, 2005)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

TFL = DRL in German


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (mtltdi)*

I guess I consider a DRL as any light that is on during the day so oncoming drivers can see your car - and "during the day" means that they are only on when your lights are turned off.
Anyway, Can't see why you couldn't run HIDs as DRLs - no need to run them at reduced wattage since they have such a long life anyway. But I doubt that any E-code low beam is as effective as a DRL as a DOT low beam - whether they're HID or not. I'm running my fog lights as my DRLs and they probably aren't very effective either - the dedicated ones are designed to efficiently get enough light in the eyes of oncoming drivers. Aren't there some NA pickup trucks, etc. that also have dedicated DRLs also?


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## mtltdi (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (dennisgli)*

I choose not to run my HID's as DRL's because I don't want to have the ballasts and igniters used everytime I want to move the car out of the driveway so the wife can get out, short daytime trips to the store, etc. I have chosen to get the legitimate Hella DRL's to do my part to stay visible. I also wanted it to be a nobrainer if wifey uses the car. I didn't want no lights until the lightswitch is turned on because I wouldn't want her to get caught with no lights. Our van shuts the lights off on its own when the drivers door is opened so the lightswitch is always at the on position.
There are a lot of cars that do not use the headlight as a DRL around here, Cadillacs have those bright orange lower bumper lights and Neon's use large round bumper lights as well.
I'm not sure why this thread has turned into a DRL=TFL and crap like that thread, I was just trying to document that I was trying to have an alternative DRL to using anything in the headlight housing. I guess if there was a way to run the Highbeam at 50% I probably would have preferred that, but it would be painful if I followed someone into a tunnel or something so that's not a good solution either.


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## www.Euro-Cullen.com (May 3, 2005)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (dennisgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dennisgli* »_Anyway, Can't see why you couldn't run HIDs as DRLs - no need to run them at reduced wattage since they have such a long life anyway. 

You can NOT run HIDs (read: run the ballast) at a lower voltage than intended. 
The whole idea around lower VOLTAGE to the bulbs is very contridictional, as many atually believe it shortens the bulb lifespan since you are "feeding" it with a voltage it was NOT designed for. But here there is lack of evidence this or that way, but it just doesnt make sence really to hook a bulb up to the "wrong" voltage as the NA DRL setups do.


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Hella Micro DE as DRL's (www.Euro-Cullen.com)*


_Quote, originally posted by *www.Euro-Cullen.com* »_You can NOT run HIDs (read: run the ballast) at a lower voltage than intended.

Right, as I said - there is no need to run them at reduced voltage - you won't increase life by dropping the voltage. Ballasts are designed to run at a range of voltages - but I don't know what typical minimum spec' is.

_Quote, originally posted by *www.Euro-Cullen.com* »_The whole idea around lower VOLTAGE to the bulbs is very contridictional, as many atually believe it shortens the bulb lifespan since you are "feeding" it with a voltage it was NOT designed for. But here there is lack of evidence this or that way, but it just doesnt make sence really to hook a bulb up to the "wrong" voltage as the NA DRL setups do.

There's no problem running an incandescent bulb at reduced voltage - you'll get less light, lower color temperature, but much longer life. You do not want to run halogen bulbs at too low a voltage - they need to get hot to work properly. But it seems to be reasonable to run them at 10% reduced voltage to increase bulb life. I haven't seen any actual spec' sheets that say what the minimum recommended voltage is for a halogen bulb.


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