# ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com***



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*ABD Racing Intake manifolds in STOCK!!!* 








Kit includes new gaskets, hose clamps and instructions.

As you can see compared to a stock manifold the runners are HUGE!, the plenum is also quite a bit larger.
















I tried the best I could to shoot a picture down the plenum, the interior design is much larger and more direct into the runners.

















*Here is a link to the manifold on our site: http://www.performance-cafe.co...=1257*
If you have questions or feedback post it here!!! Or you can reach us by email: [email protected] or by phone 831.426.1431
Thank you for taking a look








(BTW, we actually have these in stock, we are not trying to compile some indefinite waiting list)


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (PerfCafe)*

What kind of gains are to be expected with this unit? Do you have any dyno comparisons available?


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## LA Wolfsburg (May 8, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (ruso)*

holy ****, it finally came out. whos going to try it out?
whats up jon.


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## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (LA Wolfsburg)*

No regulars around here without a dyno. lol


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## UmbroVR6 (May 23, 2000)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (QuickK03Crap)*

i need some numbers! how can u try to sell this product without
numbers?
its insane!


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## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_What kind of gains are to be expected with this unit? Do you have any dyno comparisons available?

ABD is quoting 10-20 depending on modifications, If you have a big turbo the manifold will be making a much larger differance, with a stock turbo, 10hp.
Jon


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## ghostrado (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (PerfCafe)*

BMX POWER!


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

thats great how about a dyno sheet


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## 01 Wolfsburg (May 7, 2003)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_thats great how about a dyno sheet

What? Some guy who stands to gain monetarily telling you it makes power doesn't work for you?


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## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (ghostrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ghostrado* »_BMX POWER!









*BMX!!!!!*














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (01 Wolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01 Wolfsburg* »_What? Some guy who stands to gain monetarily telling you it makes power doesn't work for you?






























We have put in a request for the 2 sheets ABD has, hopefully we will get somthing soon.
Jon







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 20V-Turbo (Oct 29, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (PerfCafe)*

what about the throttle body? Can you use an S4 throttle body on it?
I would imagine that an ATP Fuel Rail just botls up to it no problem.
Would this fit on a AEB head?


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## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (20V-Turbo)*

No on the TB, not sure on the rail, and yes it'll fit on an AEB, but not match up. lol


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (QuickK03Crap)*

So what would be the total gains if you combined this manifold with the ABD Q-Flow and the ABD chip... err... Split Second Boost Controller?


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## surfin rabbit (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (ruso)*

so this is a straight bolt on kit? dont need anything else?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PerfCafe* »_
We have put in a request for the 2 sheets ABD has, hopefully we will get somthing soon.
Jon







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
 Jon I would be interested in one when i see a dyno sheet first . I have a few questions 1) Its hard to tell by the pic , but is the injector ANGLE different ? 2) was any testing done when deveolping to see if the cylinder filling is more EVEN , compared to the stock unit which would run leaner on some cylindres , causing timing pull?? 3) Stock fuel rail is used? 4) What if any modifactions are needed to install this ( basically is this plug and play? or not? ) Let me know







Thanks Bob.G


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## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ Jon I would be interested in one when i see a dyno sheet first . I have a few questions 1) Its hard to tell by the pic , but is the injector ANGLE different ? 2) was any testing done when developing to see if the cylinder filling is more EVEN , compared to the stock unit which would run leaner on some cylinders , causing timing pull?? 3) Stock fuel rail is used? 4) What if any modifications are needed to install this ( basically is this plug and play? or not? ) Let me know







Thanks Bob.G

The injector cup angle looks identical to stock.
The stock fuel rail as well as all other components can be used.
I know they put quite a bit of engineering into this part, thus it took them nearly a year to release it, I will relay your question and see what they say.
Jon


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*

Can this be ordered without the ABD logo?


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## UmbroVR6 (May 23, 2000)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PerfCafe* »_
The injector cup angle looks identical to stock.
The stock fuel rail as well as all other components can be used.
I know they put quite a bit of engineering into this part, thus it took them nearly a year to release it, I will relay your question and see what they say.
Jon

i'm sorry, but isn't engineering and abd in the same line
sort of like an oxymoron?
lol http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and i would want the abd logo off too


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## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_Can this be ordered without the ABD logo?

















You mean you don't want any ABD BLING on under the hood?


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

i would like to see dyno sheets on a car that made 350whp before the mani and what it made after $499 isn't a mad price if it is going to make 25-30whp on a 350whp car and i almost forgot deff. no logo would be hott http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_ $499 isn't a mad price if it is going to make 25-30whp on a 350whp car : 
 Thats what im saying , To be fair about, its a nice piece for the PRICE that is plug and play and still uses the factory fuel rail . I can tell you that its DEFF gonna make more power up top ( how much , im not sure ) im would just be alittle worried that those shorter fat runners may hurt bottom and mid range power ( that why i want to see a dyno chart )







Bob.G


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

what about us kids with dbc, they plan on adding a bracket for that????if so you can package one up with my name on it!!!!and i will tell you how much more power it makes on a 500whp car


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## 88mk2g60 (Oct 15, 2002)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

cant wait till someone actually has one


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## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ Jon I would be interested in one when i see a dyno sheet first . I have a few questions 1) Its hard to tell by the pic , but is the injector ANGLE different ? 2) was any testing done when deveolping to see if the cylinder filling is more EVEN , compared to the stock unit which would run leaner on some cylindres , causing timing pull?? 3) Stock fuel rail is used? 4) What if any modifactions are needed to install this ( basically is this plug and play? or not? ) Let me know







Thanks Bob.G


Here is the answer I got from ABD on your question #2.
"The short answer is yes. The reason we made the runners taper is to get more consistent air values into each cylinder since the plenum was enlarged. The plenum will pack with air and then condense down as it hits the runners and be very dense when it hits the cylinder, so no uneven air flow to one cylinder over another. Hope that helps.
Jason ABD Racing"
Jon










_Modified by PerfCafe at 2:14 PM 7-15-2005_


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## 20V-Turbo (Oct 29, 2003)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*

so this can be ported to match a AEB head for more air flow?


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_what about us kids with dbc, they plan on adding a bracket for that????


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## vwgotech (Oct 18, 2004)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (PerfCafe)*

I've installed the satin finish manifold on my GTI and I think it's great. There is a real big difference. My car pulled harder and for much longer. Everything bolts up just like stock. It was pretty easy to do. I think it is well worth the money. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I have the GIAC X+ chip with full 2 1/2 " exhaust and intake, etc.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PerfCafe* »_

Here is the answer I got from ABD on your question #2.
"The short answer is yes. The reason we made the runners taper is to get more consistent air values into each cylinder since the plenum was enlarged. The plenum will pack with air and then condense down as it hits the runners and be very dense when it hits the cylinder, so no uneven air flow to one cylinder over another. Hope that helps.
Jason ABD Racing"
Jon









_Modified by PerfCafe at 2:14 PM 7-15-2005_
Thanks Jon for your quick responce and time. I can suggest an offer that would sell ALOT of these manifolds and benifit all parties involved ( me , you and [email protected] ABD ) and put all the doubt to rest







. I have a 04 GLI with APR stage 3+ . I would be willing to Buy this manifold from YOU now on my CC .IF 1) I can P/U this manifold at WF 2) ABD pays for dyno time ( before and after ) that will be done at WF 3) I can install the manifold at WF ( with some freinds help ) . My car will be at the H2sport booth @WF displaying there new Drop spindles .Tell jason if the manifold that good he has only to gain







Let me know Bob.G 

_Modified by rracerguy717 at 6:36 PM 7-15-2005_


_Modified by rracerguy717 at 6:54 PM 7-15-2005_


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## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

sounds like a perfect situation for a dyno test... lets hope ABD is up for it


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## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

Once i get my car tuned a little more. I might buy this, im about 80% sure i'll buy it. I will do before and after dyno if you ho's paypal me







.


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## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_Thanks Jon for your quick responce and time. I can suggest an offer that would sell ALOT of these manifolds and benifit all parties involved ( me , you and [email protected] ABD ) and put all the doubt to rest







. I have a 04 GLI with APR stage 3+ . I would be willing to Buy this manifold from YOU now on my CC .IF 1) I can P/U this manifold at WF 2) ABD pays for dyno time ( before and after ) that will be done at WF 3) I can install the manifold at WF ( with some freinds help ) . My car will be at the H2sport booth @WF displaying there new Drop spindles .Tell jason if the manifold that good he has only to gain







Let me know Bob.G 

_Modified by rracerguy717 at 6:36 PM 7-15-2005_

_Modified by rracerguy717 at 6:54 PM 7-15-2005_

Talk to ABD at their booth at WF, Im sure they would be down for somthing, I know they are planning a few more dyno runs at GIAC this next week.
Jon


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## Sleeper GM (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (vwgotech)*

I would have tested this out for you guys if I was not selling the car. Also I have been waiting over a year for this part to come out ... what is with that. Now it comes out and the car is being sold.


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## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (surfin rabbit)*

Heads up for those considering buying the manifold.
No one noticed that the manifold does not come with the black plastic injector inserts. I know from my own experience that those will be a b itch to remove without braking if you want to reuse the ones from the stock manifold. The new inserts are $37.00 a piece from Impex. Which brings the price nearly $150.00 up.


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## lax1492 (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (20V1.8Tnut)*

i still dont get why its so hard to get the dyno's on this.... this product has been out for a few months... plus abd has been dancing around the dyno for so long... story after story.. why cant they take one of their cars and test it i dont know how thats so hard? i think last i heard the place that did the runs kept the sheets ?


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## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_Thanks Jon for your quick responce and time. I can suggest an offer that would sell ALOT of these manifolds and benifit all parties involved ( me , you and [email protected] ABD ) and put all the doubt to rest







. I have a 04 GLI with APR stage 3+ . I would be willing to Buy this manifold from YOU now on my CC .IF 1) I can P/U this manifold at WF 2) ABD pays for dyno time ( before and after ) that will be done at WF 3) I can install the manifold at WF ( with some freinds help ) . My car will be at the H2sport booth @WF displaying there new Drop spindles .Tell jason if the manifold that good he has only to gain







Let me know Bob.G 


Sounds like put up or shut up to me.


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## frprado (May 30, 2003)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickK03Crap* »_
Sounds like put up or shut up to me.









This offer would definetely qualm the voices and the all the talk ABD and their products. They, ABD, have nothing to lose...unless those dyno sheets are saying something else that they are claming..but bump for a response to this man's proposal http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sandiegobmx (Mar 10, 2004)

Hell, even if the thing puts up 20hp on a 350whp car, people will jump on it. I sure would be tempted...


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## sandiegobmx (Mar 10, 2004)

Oh, and... BMX!


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (sandiegobmx)*

I have a question......i saw three different ones at DUBWARS out here in cali one was the regluar mani, one was polished, and one had been honed and polished on the inside.....which ones are you selling?


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## sandiegobmx (Mar 10, 2004)

Gotta pay for the extras... I imagine Perf is selling the regular.


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## .:TSRthis (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (sandiegobmx)*

*cough* Group Buy


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (.:TSRthis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:TSRthis* »_*cough* Group Buy









hell yeah if they can do a group by for $400 shipped im sure they will sell a bunch of them but they are on backorder from abd anyways


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## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (PerfCafe)*

i want one


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## ruba_dubdub (Dec 26, 2002)

I wonder how this will do against the Dahlback mani.


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## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (sandiegobmx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sandiegobmx* »_Oh, and... BMX!

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (sandiegobmx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sandiegobmx* »_Gotta pay for the extras... I imagine Perf is selling the regular.

Yes, they are the regular ones.
Jon

... BMX!


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## fonzi337 (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*

So what's the difference between the regular one and another one that is offered?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (frprado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *frprado* »_
This offer would definetely qualm the voices and the all the talk ABD and their products. They, ABD, have nothing to lose...unless those dyno sheets are saying something else that they are claming..but bump for a response to this man's proposal http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
 I asked about the dyno sheet that was done for the manifold and they said GIAC ( who did the dyno work ) computer crashed and lost dyno sheets







any way ,i m still trying to p/u one from them tommorow at WF. It looks like a nice piece , casting and machine work was done very nice , only concern is the shorter runners as stated above . (They may hurt your low end power) , will see and il keep you posted







Bob.G


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## lax1492 (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ I asked about the dyno sheet that was done for the manifold and they said GIAC ( who did the dyno work ) computer crashed and lost dyno sheets









wasn't it done like a year ago when they were first testing this ? its not as if abd has to travel 100 miles to find a dyno to redo this.. so i don't see the hold up... not saying it cant do what they say but its bad form to keep up a lame excuse like the computer crashed... so what... go out the next day and test it again


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## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ I asked about the dyno sheet that was done for the manifold and they said GIAC ( who did the dyno work ) computer crashed and lost dyno sheets







any way ,i m still trying to p/u one from them tommorow at WF.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for your efforts, hope it'll work out

_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ It looks like a nice piece , casting and machine work was done very nice , only concern is the shorter runners as stated above . (They may hurt your low end power) , will see and il keep you posted







Bob.G

Nice to hear that, because this mani is the only viable solution without breaking your wallet.


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## SteveGTInyc (Nov 13, 2003)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*

I picked up a manifold from abd saturday at watefest.. it is a very nice piece, and for the price you cannot beat it .. haven't installed it yet since its pooring here in NY, but everything seems to be where is needs to (to fit factory perfect) .. 
They give you all the necesary hardware including gaskets, and picked one up yesturday for $499..
The runners/plenum are signifigantly bigger than stock, and when asked about the gains i was told on the stock turbo car they made 10-12 hp and on their 350 hp gt30 car they made somewhere between 20-30 hp .. 
People waste 200 bucks on a CAI that doesn't do jack ****, why not waste another 300 for a manifold .. JM2C
Im hoping to hit the dyno soon and will post sheets..
Car is awp w/ atp stg 2 kit.. 


_Modified by SteveGTInyc at 4:24 PM 7-17-2005_


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## lax1492 (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: (SteveGTInyc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SteveGTInyc* »_I picked up a manifold from abd saturday at watefest.. it is a very nice piece, and for the price you cannot beat it .. haven't installed it yet since its pooring here in NY, but everything seems to be where is needs to (to fit factory perfect) .. 
They give you all the necesary hardware including gaskets, and picked one up yesturday for $499..
The runners/plenum are signifigantly bigger than stock, and when asked about the gains i was told on the stock turbo car they made 10-12 hp and on their 350 hp gt30 car they made somewhere between 20-30 hp .. 
People waste 200 bucks on a CAI that doesn't do jack ****, why not waste another 300 for a manifold .. JM2C
Im hoping to hit the dyno soon and will post sheets..
Car is awp w/ atp stg 2 kit.. 

_Modified by SteveGTInyc at 4:24 PM 7-17-2005_

wow well i have a rock that keeps tigers away and a stick that keeps bears away how about you buy that for a few hundred and just go on my word it works? ... your cai comparison is rather flawed ... euro tuner had an article to prove your case wrong.. i have seen so many dyno sheets for cai's but not for this.. if you like it cus it looks cool thats fine like i said im sure it works but it be nice to show some proof and there should not be this huge problem to get us some sheets. and we should not have to depend on a consumer to give us proof


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## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (SteveGTInyc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SteveGTInyc* »_I picked up a manifold from abd saturday at watefest.. it is a very nice piece, and for the price you cannot beat it .. haven't installed it yet since its pooring here in NY, but everything seems to be where is needs to (to fit factory perfect) .. 
They give you all the necesary hardware including gaskets, and picked one up yesturday for $499..
The runners/plenum are signifigantly bigger than stock, and when asked about the gains i was told on the stock turbo car they made 10-12 hp and on their 350 hp gt30 car they made somewhere between 20-30 hp .. 
People waste 200 bucks on a CAI that doesn't do jack ****, why not waste another 300 for a manifold .. JM2C
Im hoping to hit the dyno soon and will post sheets..
Car is awp w/ atp stg 2 kit.. 

_Modified by SteveGTInyc at 4:24 PM 7-17-2005_

Does it appear that there is enough meat to port the manifold out to AEB specs?


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

I'm afraid the extreme taper might render the last few inches of the runner essentially part of the plenum. If that is the case, your resonance tuning and taper angle math is all shot to hell.
Like was said 1000x before on the subject of this manifold, only the dyno will tell if its a paperweight or a champ. I can tell you that anything i build in the way of an intake manifold will be based on extensive dynomometer testing using a test mule manifold with adjustble runner lengths etc. Yes, there is some math you can do, some rules of thumb, etc, but, our packaging kind of screws us, and in the end intake manifold design is still somewhat of a black art. 
It scares me that they have no flow bench testing to show that the 4 runners are even remotely close to even, and that they cannot provide even a single dyno test, let alone numerous runs from R&D. 
On the other hand, if it does turn out to make power, it is a good deal @ $500.


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## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobqzzi* »_
Does it appear that there is enough meat to port the manifold out to AEB specs?

i have a gasket at my house along with a few aeb heads, i was with steve all day yesterday when we picked it up and i do not think it will be able to be ported to AEB specs.


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## SteveGTInyc (Nov 13, 2003)

*Re: (lax1492)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lax1492* »_
if you like it cus it looks cool thats fine proof

When did i say i like it because of the looks








I said its a nice piece.. 

_Quote, originally posted by *lax1492* »_
euro tuner had an article to prove your case wrong

Righhht .. I remeber that issue.. claiming 20+ hp off of an intake.. get real dude..


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## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (lax1492)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lax1492* »_
wow well i have a rock that keeps tigers away and a stick that keeps bears away how about you buy that for a few hundred and just go on my word it works? ... your cai comparison is rather flawed ... euro tuner had an article to prove your case wrong.. i have seen so many dyno sheets for cai's but not for this.. if you like it cus it looks cool thats fine like i said im sure it works but it be nice to show some proof and there should not be this huge problem to get us some sheets. and we should not have to depend on a consumer to give us proof

abd racing had dyno's available showing the gain. The manifold is a big improvement over stock. Whether or not the design is the best one engineered im sure is nothing you can compare; from the argument that you post and comparing information from eurotuner. So until you can make something better, or turn your rocks or sticks into an intake manifold that has all the mounting tabs , fittings, and other little perks that make this a good upgrade for a car thats not over the top, $tfu http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
edit-spelling


_Modified by EdsGTI20VT at 1:03 PM 7-17-2005_


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## lax1492 (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: (SteveGTInyc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SteveGTInyc* »_When did i say i like it because of the looks








I said its a nice piece.. 
Righhht .. I remeber that issue.. claiming 20+ hp off of an intake.. get real dude.. 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif you missed the point... least they put it out there its up to me as a consumer to read into the data.. im not here to get in a pissing contest of who said what.. all im saying is provide some data.. from their webiste "Gain 12-20+hp / 14-22 ft.lbs! Demand is high, so there are going to be backorders of 6-8 weeks. "

_Quote, originally posted by *EdsGTI20VT* »_abd racing had dyno's available showing the gain. 

ok well post it up for me cus i dont see it on their website

i just would like to see some data on the product... before i buy something i would like to know as much as i can about it. I dont think its fair that we all in here are the ones that are forced it seems to do the testing for this .


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## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (lax1492)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lax1492* »_ok well post it up for me cus i dont see it on their website

i just would like to see some data on the product... before i buy something i would like to know as much as i can about it. I dont think its fair that we all in here are the ones that are forced it seems to do the testing for this . 

no ones forcing you or putting a gun to your head to buy an ABD intake manifold. as said on the first page of this thread (yes i read the entire thread before posting, wow innovation) the dyno's have been requested. Why would they take a year, spend lots of money to have a manifold casted(do you know how much that costs?) have 20+ of them at waterfest for sale with 2 sets of them with all 3 finishes for the consumer to touch, pick up, inspect, measure, wipe their ass with, whatever they pleased if it was a piece of crap. The dynos will be up. A bunch were sold, and also look at how much of a thread they are getting and seeing all of the interest being stirred up in one of their products. Everyone has seen this thread its been on the top of the page in the 1.8t forum during and before the waterfest weekend. As soon as they decide to send them to performance cafe im sure they will be up. Also if steve wasnt 40 minutes from my house id hijack his mani and test the volume of each runner, put aeb gaskets and everything on it, I EVEN have a customer car 337, factory equipped with a small port head, sitting here right now 80% assembled with no intake manifold on it, AND an AEB head im rebuilding for a customer too. STEVE COME OVER!


_Modified by EdsGTI20VT at 1:41 PM 7-17-2005_


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## frprado (May 30, 2003)

*Re: (EdsGTI20VT)*

what I say is whoever install this mani first and dyno's it should get some kind of payment from ABD if they get the results of the dyno out before they do (provided the gains are true and people start buying this by the boatload) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (frprado)*

ideally there will be a decent before/after comparison so we can look at how the powerband was before, and how it was after. Knock voltage logs might be good also to tell if one cylinder isn't getting as good a mixture as the others... If someone posts up data like this that is positive, i'll be picking one up shortly.


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (EdsGTI20VT)*

Ed, are the ports on the ABD manifold larger than ports on the cyl. head?
It appears from the pictures on the first page that the ports on the ABD manifold are larger than the ports on the stock piece. I have never seen how the stock manifold ports match to the ports on the cyl. head. If the ports on the stock manifold and head match, so the ports on the ABD manifold would make an abrupt step.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

ports on the stock manifold are smaller then the head. When i port matched mine (big port) it was almost 1/8" of material to remove.


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## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_ports on the stock manifold are smaller then the head. When i port matched mine (big port) it was almost 1/8" of material to remove. 


thanks
So , the ports on ABD manifold should not be much larger than head ports? Good to know.
Looking again at the ABD piece, I'd say, at least the 1st cyl filling is addressed pretty well as compare to say some other welded manifolds using straight pipe for plenum and even compare to the stock piece. But it just theory, real road tests will tell the whole story.


----------



## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V1.8Tnut* »_Ed, are the ports on the ABD manifold larger than ports on the cyl. head?
It appears from the pictures on the first page that the ports on the ABD manifold are larger than the ports on the stock piece. I have never seen how the stock manifold ports match to the ports on the cyl. head. If the ports on the stock manifold and head match, so the ports on the ABD manifold would make an abrupt step.

the ports on the ABD are copied from an exrude honed small port manifold. That is what ABD told me in person. So its gasket matched to a small port gasket. In pictures it will seem bigger then a bone stock manifold, cause its the same as the gasket.


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## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (EdsGTI20VT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EdsGTI20VT* »_
the ports on the ABD are copied from an exrude honed small port manifold. That is what ABD told me in person. So its gasket matched to a small port gasket. In pictures it will seem bigger then a bone stock manifold, cause its the same as the gasket.

thanks


----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_what about us kids with dbc, they plan on adding a bracket for that????if so you can package one up with my name on it!!!!and i will tell you how much more power it makes on a 500whp car









Youre running DBC with REVO?


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## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V1.8Tnut* »_
thanks
So , the ports on ABD manifold should not be much larger than head ports? Good to know.
Looking again at the ABD piece, I'd say, at least the 1st cyl filling is addressed pretty well as compare to say some other welded manifolds using straight pipe for plenum and even compare to the stock piece. But it just theory, real road tests will tell the whole story.

on the contrary, this still has the same goofy throttle placement and #1 cylinder barely in the plenum as the stock manifold... The runner length seems to be about the same as stock although they wont' release ANY technical data so thats hard to say. To me it appears they took a stock manifold, put a huge taper on the last 2" of the runner, and enlarged the plenum... Oh, and wrote ABD across it. It might be moderately effective but definantly still leaves some of the OEM problems lurking.


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## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

well i believe the first runner is somewhat changed. Where as in the stock piece it does not have the larger inlets right off the plenum and cyl1 is still somewhat hiding under that odd turn behind the tb plate. The ABD piece has these much larger inlets off of the plenum and the much larger inlet looks as if its the same crappy fitment as stock...but its much larger..i believe its just the edge that really looks similar to stock.


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## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*

there's only 2 knock sensors...im not sure it would be as accurate as you think. I think the best way, which no one will waste the time to do is put this on a car with a tubular exhaust manifold (since they said the big gains are big turbo) and run 4 egt probes right off of the head. If one is getting more air or less air or whatnot the temps will be changed. There are tests that can be done, people have made good numbers on stock manifolds, this is an improvement over stock.


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (EdsGTI20VT)*

I didn't get to stop at the ABD tent at WF. Did ABD have the dyno sheets in their booth? If so, did anyone take any pics of the sheet? I don't understand why the dynos are not forthcoming. It takes all of five minutes to post it on their website. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_I didn't get to stop at the ABD tent at WF. Did ABD have the dyno sheets in their booth? If so, did anyone take any pics of the sheet? I don't understand why the dynos are not forthcoming. It takes all of five minutes to post it on their website. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

supposedly there gonna be posted up, lets see.


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (EdsGTI20VT)*

I saw the goods at the ABD tent. They looked pretty nice, casting was good. Interior was pretty smooth. Good transitions. But no dyno. And they said they did not test on the big turbo car. 12 - 15 whp on a stock turbo. No dyno sheets. They claimed that there were no power losses down low, which I am skeptical about. I would have bought one on the spot if they had a dyno sheet to show the Hp curve before and after. After seeing a dahlback mani before and after put down very little HP on a stg III car I'm holding onto my money. 
There are only 2 reasons to not show a dyno, 1 = no power gains, 2 = ABD doesn't like Making Money. 
Knock sensor monitoring for individual cylinders would still be accurate even with only 2 knock sensors. Remember the cylinders dont fire at the same time, so if knock is detected by the sensor the ecu is smart enough to know which cylinder is firing and assign the knock value to that cylinder.


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## AllofurVWRbelong2me (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_I saw the goods at the ABD tent. They looked pretty nice, casting was good. Interior was pretty smooth. Good transitions. But no dyno. And they said they did not test on the big turbo car. 12 - 15 whp on a stock turbo. No dyno sheets. They claimed that there were no power losses down low, which I am skeptical about. I would have bought one on the spot if they had a dyno sheet to show the Hp curve before and after. After seeing a dahlback mani before and after put down very little HP on a stg III car I'm holding onto my money.

I would think that you'd lose a bit of low end tq with a mani like that? I could be wrong though.


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## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

...I don't get it, R&d is a fundamental aspect in peformance parts and upgrades and ABD has no proof of this or are they waiting on someone to do their homework... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## lax1492 (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_...I don't get it, R&d is a fundamental aspect in peformance parts and upgrades and ABD has no proof of this or are they waiting on someone to do their homework... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


in R& D they must have had like 20 runs to make sure it was doing what they claimed so to not have one sheet is rather weird... 
you would think at a show of all places they would have a dyno sheet... but ill keep my mouth shut cus people were jumping down my throat when i asked for proof and some data rather then buying something cus its claimed to do something


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## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (lax1492)*

steve and i both spoke to them, they said they made 10whp on a STOCK car, and 20-30whp on a big turbo car. He said they made 30WHP on their 353whp GT30R kit.(well vaporware kit at this point)


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## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_I saw the goods at the ABD tent. They looked pretty nice, casting was good. Interior was pretty smooth. Good transitions. But no dyno. And they said they did not test on the big turbo car. 12 - 15 whp on a stock turbo. No dyno sheets. They claimed that there were no power losses down low, which I am skeptical about. I would have bought one on the spot if they had a dyno sheet to show the Hp curve before and after. After seeing a dahlback mani before and after put down very little HP on a stg III car I'm holding onto my money. 
There are only 2 reasons to not show a dyno, 1 = no power gains, 2 = ABD doesn't like Making Money. 
Knock sensor monitoring for individual cylinders would still be accurate even with only 2 knock sensors. Remember the cylinders dont fire at the same time, so if knock is detected by the sensor the ecu is smart enough to know which cylinder is firing and assign the knock value to that cylinder. 


sounds like the people at ABD were either 1)making up stories. 2) had people who never had their hands in anything other then answering the phones answering questions, cause they wanted to come to waterfest. It is a nice piece as u said, im not sure what the wait is, maybe they are full of it, esp now since they gave u a different story then they gave up. we talked to the guy with the bald head and 4" patch of chin hair.


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## SteveGTInyc (Nov 13, 2003)

*Re: (EdsGTI20VT)*

What does it matter if you loose some low-end power?
Maybe if you have a big monster turbo and have nothing down low.. 
As for stock turbo setups, 28R's, and possibly 28RS's, whats a loss of low end doing ? 
I speak for myself, theres plenty of power down low in a 28R, if i can gain 10-15 up top ill be a happy camper..


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (SteveGTInyc)*

I think you would be very surprised the impact that a manifold can have on the shape of a power curve. If you lost 400 RPM in the spool up it would suck big time. I'm talking 1 inch of runner can shift the curve around this much. Many people on here road race and auto-x and a wide usable power range is more important than 10 hp up top for highway/drag racing. This is why saying "10 hp up top" is not a way to sell the products. hell if I got a GT40 turbo for free I could have 100 hp up top. Would I want it? NO


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## KGilman (Feb 3, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*

C'mon....it's shiny...shouldn't that be enough?


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## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_I think you would be very surprised the impact that a manifold can have on the shape of a power curve. If you lost 400 RPM in the spool up it would suck big time. I'm talking 1 inch of runner can shift the curve around this much. Many people on here road race and auto-x and a wide usable power range is more important than 10 hp up top for highway/drag racing. This is why saying "10 hp up top" is not a way to sell the products. hell if I got a GT40 turbo for free I could have 100 hp up top. Would I want it? NO

is length the only variable in changing spool up? does the runner diameter change affect this issue also?


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (EdsGTI20VT)*

I have not seen back to back testing with variable runner size, only the length. usually the head limits the runner size. Changing the porting in the head is another almost "black art" that requires trial and error with lots of flow bench/dyno time. But basically anything that changes the velocity of the air hitting the intake valves is going to change the power curve. 
The ABD mani almost looks like there is no runner at all, or a very stumpy one. The huge taper makes the first half of the runner just a part of the plenum. 
All theory aside, you need a dyno sheet to show the results. Otherwise it's just more bling. Might as well run some fish bowl headlights with beta fish in them.


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## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (enginerd)*

i dont know what their design was based on, but it seems to me that the design was setup so that the air had to flow right down the runners. With velocity stacks the air fills the plenum and goes into and down the runners. this jsut kind of flows into the runner once it enters the plenum...with very little backplate material inbetween runners its almost as if the plenum is not such a definitive section thats easily seperated like on most other manifolds. I think this manifold should be proven (which they said they had dyno information, not sure whats going on) because i beleive this runner design is similar to what is said about cylinderhead porting, it could work well, or do jack.


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

manifold looks ok, but dyno's are a must for marketing power products thats just common sense


_Modified by [email protected] at 8:48 AM 7-18-2005_


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_
Might as well run some fish bowl headlights with beta fish in them. 









I also like the part about the dyno computer crashing...reminds me of kids saying their dog ate their homework. Nevertheless, this thing might do some good but ABD sure has screwed up the marketing side of this part.


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_
Youre running DBC with REVO?

no longer have revo i have 034efi


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

my strategy is going to be to fiddle with plenum designs until i get something which gives a nice even flow to all four... Then play with the entrance to the plenum (taper radius, etc), then build one with silicone runners so i can test lengths... 
its going to keep me busy for a while.







but they'll be tons of logging and testing along the way to check out


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
no longer have revo i have 034efi

You got IM


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## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_Thanks Jon for your quick responce and time. I can suggest an offer that would sell ALOT of these manifolds and benifit all parties involved ( me , you and [email protected] ABD ) and put all the doubt to rest







. I have a 04 GLI with APR stage 3+ . I would be willing to Buy this manifold from YOU now on my CC .IF 1) I can P/U this manifold at WF 2) ABD pays for dyno time ( before and after ) that will be done at WF 3) I can install the manifold at WF ( with some freinds help ) . My car will be at the H2sport booth @WF displaying there new Drop spindles .Tell jason if the manifold that good he has only to gain







Let me know Bob.G 

_Modified by rracerguy717 at 6:36 PM 7-15-2005_

_Modified by rracerguy717 at 6:54 PM 7-15-2005_


So? Did you talk to ABD? Any action taken? ABD did not let you do it?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V1.8Tnut* »_

So? Did you talk to ABD? Any action taken? ABD did not let you do it?
 They didnt want to deal and i was going to buy it anyway , but then it starting pouring and i took off fast .I wanted to beat the floods and storm of people heading toward the gates







. I may go a different route , really in no rush and i didnt feel to confortable with ABD not having ANY hard TECH data ( flow bench, timing logs, dyno figures , etc ). I wil say that the piece casting was very nice and looks like it would be better than stock unit , just dont know about those short runners and how it would effect low RPM power







Bob.G


_Modified by rracerguy717 at 7:38 PM 7-18-2005_


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## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ They didnt want to deal and i was going to buy it anyway , but then it starting pouring and i took off fast .I wanted to beat the floods and storm of people heading toward the gates







. I may go a different route , really in no rush and i didnt feel to confortable with ABD not having ANY hard TECH data ( flow bench, timing logs, dyno figures , etc ). I wil say that the piece casting was very nice and looks like it would be better than stock unit , just dont know about those short runners and how it would effect low RPM power







Bob.G

_Modified by rracerguy717 at 7:38 PM 7-18-2005_

I'd say it started pouring for a reason...someone up there did not want you to spend your $500 for a product that has no proof of power gain.


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## 01 Wolfsburg (May 7, 2003)

*Re: (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_I can't believe there isn't anyone brave enough to give this part a shot and do some dyno tests of their own. 

Maybe because "being brave" would cost 500 dollars. Why aren't you buying it?


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## lax1492 (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: (01 Wolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01 Wolfsburg* »_Maybe because "being brave" would cost 500 dollars. Why aren't you buying it?









plus around $100 total for dyno runs before and after


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## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (lax1492)*

now im NOT here to stir the pot at all, everyone who knows me knows that. I truly think that its becoming such an issue only cause its ABD. Now i havent been on the scene as long as others have so correct me if im wrong, ive only been here for 3 years. But did momentum tuning ever prove their intake manifold design? Like intercoolers with mike p needing proof, did anyone else ever really prove their intercooler, or jsut cause its that well known company they could stamp their name on a piece of dog $hit and say this is the best damn TIP you can buy? From the looks of it, seeing how well it was made and the casting quality i doubt its going to be even = to the stock piece, it will be better im sure, how much well thats for abd to tell us but for those who checked them out and posted, thought it was a nice piece. I want dynos to be posted from ABD its silly they arent doing it, but if they dont steve and i will put the manifold on the car once im ready to go to the dyno with my car and we will show some results.



_Modified by EdsGTI20VT at 5:45 PM 7-19-2005_


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## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (lax1492)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lax1492* »_
plus around $100 total for dyno runs before and after

you can strap a car down, run it, let it cool at least a little, swap everything off of the intake manifold, install the new intake manifold, reconnect everything, check for leaks, clean it up and re run the car. Then shut it down, unstrap it and have it off the rollers in 1 hour? dyno time me for an average chump is about 125-150 an hour if theyre using a good dyno. For someone that uses the machine alot u can usually get 75-100 an hour. Id say its more like 200 to do all of it and get more then 1 run before and after.


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (EdsGTI20VT)*

Ed-
I think part of the skepticism is the result of some previous good looking, and pricey pieces not being worth anything. The two that come to mind off the top of my head are the Dahlback Intake, and the Forge SMIC. Both companies have a well established brand names, but those particular products for the 1.8T Golfs/Jettas did not produce gains that made the price worth it for most people. I think some of the larger companies take data for granted nowadays, because they might feel like they've proved themselves already with other stuff.


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## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (EdsGTI20VT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EdsGTI20VT* »_dyno time me for an average chump is about 125-150 an hour if theyre using a good dyno. For someone that uses the machine alot u can usually get 75-100 an hour. Id say its more like 200 to do all of it and get more then 1 run before and after.

Yeah, its going to be at least $130 ($65 or so for 1 dyno run before and after) if you only do 1 dyno run, then come back later once you swap the manifold on and do another run. So you are only getting one run before and after, but even at that, its more info than we have seen so far.


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## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_Ed-
I think part of the skepticism is the result of some previous good looking, and pricey pieces not being worth anything. The two that come to mind off the top of my head are the Dahlback Intake, and the Forge SMIC. Both companies have a well established brand names, but those particular products for the 1.8T Golfs/Jettas did not produce gains that made the price worth it for most people. I think some of the larger companies take data for granted nowadays, because they might feel like they've proved themselves already with other stuff. 

i agree 100% i also think its because abd's stuff in the past has sucked most off the time to be completely honest, and now they make a sweet looking product that has potential to make them less crappy in everyones eyes. They just need to prove their gains and i dont think 500$ isnt too expensive for a good intake manifold.


_Modified by EdsGTI20VT at 11:00 PM 7-19-2005_


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## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (EdsGTI20VT)*

So ABD, are you gonna give us some dyno sheets for this thing or just let the brave (or stupid) souls buy your product w/o any PROOF that it gives the 12+HP that you claim. And just because it adds 12HP somewhere else, is it taking 12HP from another part of the powerband?
*LETS SEE THE DYNO SHEETS!!*


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## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

ABD should hire this guy to handle the questions about dyno sheets:








Sad to see that they are doing SO much stonewalling with this. It's a SIMPLE request that people have been asking them for a YEAR. Jebus, if some Joe Schmoe can go to his local tuner shop for a dyno run, what the hell is stopping ABD, who supposedly dumped thousands of dollars into "R&D", from doing the same? It's SO sketchy that someone would have to do a lot of convincing to get me to even consider buying this thing. The excuses sound so lame (GIAC's computer crashed and lost the data - what BS!) and I don't buy it for a second. Sorry. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (dcomiskey)*

I think it would be in Performance Cafe and everyone else selling this snake oil manifold to either force ABD to release there dyno sheets or install it on one of there own cars and dyno test the thing themselves. If I had one available to me I'd install the damn thing tonight and go dyno it tomorrow morning.


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

Peformance Cafe could make more money on these if they'd install it, dyno it, uninstall and clean it, sell that manifold for like $75 off since it may have scuff marks where the bolt heads were, and post the dyno sheets. The cost of the $75 and dyno time would be made up by increased sales, assuming the dyno sheet tells a good story. If it didn't, how embarrassing that would be!


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

if it were me, i'd rather say yea we don't sell it becuase it didn't make power, then sell a whole bunch then come under fire because it didn't make power.


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## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (dcomiskey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcomiskey* »_ABD should hire this guy to handle the questions about dyno sheets:










he he he he








I know it dosent really serve us, but I have to say thats really funny








JOn


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## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_Peformance Cafe could make more money on these if they'd install it, dyno it, uninstall and clean it, sell that manifold for like $75 off since it may have scuff marks where the bolt heads were, and post the dyno sheets. The cost of the $75 and dyno time would be made up by increased sales, assuming the dyno sheet tells a good story. If it didn't, how embarrassing that would be!

I put one on a car here, Im trying to locate some of the stock piping to get it on right, I put it on a car that had a TT setup so the throttle body is on the wring side... It will take me a few days to get all the other parts needed to put the tb back on the other side. Then I will take it over for a few runs.
Jon







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## clanton1.8T (May 28, 2004)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PerfCafe* »_
I put one on a car here, Im trying to locate some of the stock piping to get it on right, I put it on a car that had a TT setup so the throttle body is on the wring side... It will take me a few days to get all the other parts needed to put the tb back on the other side. Then I will take it over for a few runs.
Jon







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

keep us posted


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PerfCafe* »_
I put one on a car here, Im trying to locate some of the stock piping to get it on right, I put it on a car that had a TT setup so the throttle body is on the wring side... It will take me a few days to get all the other parts needed to put the tb back on the other side. Then I will take it over for a few runs.
Jon







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif You the man!


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## LA Wolfsburg (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PerfCafe* »_I put one on a car here, Im trying to locate some of the stock piping to get it on right, I put it on a car that had a TT setup so the throttle body is on the wring side... It will take me a few days to get all the other parts needed to put the tb back on the other side. Then I will take it over for a few runs.
Jon







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

jon you can use my car as a test car if you want to see the results on a bigger turbo car as well. im local. IM me.


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## fonzi337 (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (LA Wolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LA Wolfsburg* »_jon you can use my car as a test car if you want to see the results on a bigger turbo car as well. im local. IM me.

Same here, and I have nothing to do all day every day. I'm interested in purchasing the unit if it makes power, but I've been waiting for results. I'd be down to help. Email me if interested: [email protected]


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## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (fonzi337)*

bump because I figured it's been several days and ABD had some time to finally post these charts.


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

Allegedly








I love this pic.


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## GT_Series_18T (Jan 26, 2005)

My dog ate my dyno sheets
I've been following this thread. Could be a nice alternative for RS folks to get some more top end power


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## lax1492 (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: (GT_Series_18T)*

i think i seen a situation like this in the movies ...hmmmm

ABD:You want answers?

ME : I think I'm entitled.

ABD : You want answers?!

ME : I want the truth!

ABD :You can't handle the truth!


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (lax1492)*

lol, I'm in that scenario with my girlfriend sometimes and I'm ABD in that roll. I'm think to myself: "My God if I tell her the truth she'll go nuts."


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## GT_Series_18T (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_lol, I'm in that scenario with my girlfriend sometimes and I'm ABD in that roll. I'm think to myself: "My God if I tell her the truth she'll go nuts."

little does groftja know I am his girlfriend pretending to be gt_series_18t


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (GT_Series_18T)*








That's a good one! I know she has come on here to spy on me.


----------



## GT_Series_18T (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_







That's a good one! I know she has come on here to spy on me.


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (GT_Series_18T)*

OK, since it has been a lot of talk about this manifold and no feedback received on it from any reputable texers, I have decided to became a guinea pig and give it a try. It came in mail last thursday. The manifold I got is a plain satin finish without any bells and whisstles, but it is a very nice looking piece. The plenum is definately larger than stock and the runners are about 1" shorter and about 1" wider at the plenum, however the #1 runner is somewhat narrower then #2, 3, and 4. So right now it has been installed and ny further observations are being analyzed by some some well known texers and myself. For now I cant tell if it will give you any justfied power gains. My car is AWD auto equipped with disco potato, so your results may be totally different. But before our final verdict will be publicly announced on tex, I still want to talk to ABD and see how we can resolve some issues.
To be continued...


----------



## JuniorMcNasty (Mar 14, 2004)

Cool man...keep us posted .


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V1.8Tnut* »_But before our final verdict will be publicly announced on tex, I still want to talk to ABD and see how we can resolve some issues.
To be continued...

So basically even on a big turbo setup it did nothing?


----------



## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_
So basically even on a big turbo setup it did nothing?









Don't speak too fast Shawn!
There will be logs provided.
The truth will come out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_
So basically even on a big turbo setup it did nothing?









Right now the main question is not the power gain but a simple matter of proper fitment and possible affects on on an engine condition. All I can tell right now it is not a straight bolt on.


----------



## surfin rabbit (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*

and why is it not a straight bolt-on


----------



## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_
You are being as elusive as ABD about info on this manifold.







I'm not far from Falls Church...let me check this thing out in person.









until all issues are worked out why post?


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V1.8Tnut* »_
Right now the main question is not the power gain but a simple matter of proper fitment and possible affects on on an engine condition. All I can tell right now it is not a straight bolt on.

hope everything works out for ya...let me know what they tell ya. I am calling them today about dyno's and fitment issues also. 
And i am also trying to get in contact with perf-cafe but to no avail yet...im sure its just the time zone thing though. I just want to know how the installation was on the car they had.


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (kilmer420)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kilmer420* »_until all issues are worked out why post?

Why not keep us informed about the entire process and not just the good aspects? I would like to know, as a consumer, what issues a product has from when it gets to me to when its in the car. I don't want to just hear the happy stuff.


----------



## LA Wolfsburg (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

chill man.
he doesnt want to give them what could be unnecessary bad publicity until he talks to abd and sees if they can resolve it.


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*

It appears that again, this pic is appropriate at this time.


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (LA Wolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LA Wolfsburg* »_chill man.
he doesnt want to give them what could be unnecessary bad publicity until he talks to abd and sees if they can resolve it. 

When we are talking about a $500 part that deals w/ fueling our motors I think we can stay informed about every aspect of a new product so I won't "chill". He can simply take out any wrong/misinformed information after he has talked to ABD and it won't be bad publicity. I think telling people how YOU feel about a product that YOU bought is what a public forum is all about. I'm not here to hold ABDs hands and only release positive info about any product, I'm here to learn about what others think about the product and if its something I want to install on my vehicle.


----------



## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

Well said.


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Midnight_1.8T* »_hope everything works out for ya...let me know what they tell ya. I am calling them today about dyno's and fitment issues also. 
And i am also trying to get in contact with perf-cafe but to no avail yet...im sure its just the time zone thing though. I just want to know how the installation was on the car they had. 

We are open now








Im curious as to the fitment issue, as when I did it, it bolted right on...
Jon


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PerfCafe* »_
We are open now








Im curious as to the fitment issue, as when I did it, it bolted right on...
Jon


Great place to do business with... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I would suggest to anyone to do business with Performance Cafe.


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_
You are being as elusive as ABD about info on this manifold.







I'm not far from Falls Church...let me check this thing out in person.









You are welcome to come to see the manifold. 
And it is not $500 piece, you would have to buy injector seats/inserts unless you got a special tool to remove them from your stock manifold or find a way to remove them without damaging.
I talked to [email protected], and described fitment issues I have on my AWD 4-speed. Dave told me that they sold and installed a number of the manifold and that they did not have these issues. He asked me if I can take pictures of where I have problems and they will go from there in helping me. We also discussed the effects of larger plenum and runners on MAF readings.
I did not ask them for dyno proof because others did and you already know what happen.


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V1.8Tnut* »_
I did not ask them for dyno proof because others did and you already know what happen.










I bolted up a ross machine fuel rail to mine today when i got home from work and everything seemed to line up...sorry for the sh!tty luck getting that poor one in the batch...but these are mass produced, which is why they are cheaper...and btw...mine is light as swedish supermodel







...so thats another plus....maybe


----------



## sandiegobmx (Mar 10, 2004)

Midnight, if you've had the chance to drive it around, mind giving us a quick review?


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (sandiegobmx)*

i havent yet because i dont have injector seatings...jon is sending me them tomorrow...and we should have a dyno of the thing in action very soon....ie ... hopefully this weekend on moderate boost...about 18psi...perhaps more if i can change out my wastegate spring and get my hands on some race fuel:thumbup:


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

any chance you can do before and after Grams/second, boost, timing,, knock and retard logs???? almost as good as a dyno.


----------



## VDUBRACER187 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*

i started putting mine in tonight, and there is definately i big difference in the size of the internal channels between stock and the abd... tomorow i have to run over to vw for a replacement plastic injector holder since mine cracked. then i have to finish putting in the manifold and my turbo inlet hose, and try to fix the immoblizer problems im having








when i finish installing all my crap and resolve my issues i will let you guys know how i like the mani


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (VDUBRACER187)*

i will hopefully post logs that were taken while on the dyno. If for some reason the car is acting up on the dyno again, then the dyno post might have to wait until i get things smoothed out again. 
I will make sure everything is running correctly on the stock manifold first, and then do the swap over to the abd manifold


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (VDUBRACER187)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBRACER187* »_i started putting mine in tonight, and there is definately i big difference in the size of the internal channels between stock and the abd... tomorow i have to run over to vw for a replacement plastic injector holder since mine cracked. then i have to finish putting in the manifold and my turbo inlet hose, and try to fix the immoblizer problems im having








when i finish installing all my crap and resolve my issues i will let you guys know how i like the mani









Your car won't start and your still modding it. your a sick man








Take a dremel and port match the head and the Intake mani to the gasket. Pack the head with towels and spray some oil in there to prevent chips from getting in. Having a step in the mani is a big problem for proper flow/atomization. is the mani smaller than the head, or other way around?


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (enginerd)*

i think he means the runners


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

Hey, Im retarded and only grabbed 3 of those cups :-( 
Im going to grab the other tonight and ill send them tomorrow.. I think I know where it is.. Worst case you can have the three and ill order the other one.
Jon


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*

haha, its not a problem...let me know whats up tomorrow whenever you get in to work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

If anyone is interested I believe the part # for the injector seats is 06b.133.555.d


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Midnight_1.8T* »_haha, its not a problem...let me know whats up tomorrow whenever you get in to work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I have 2 good ones from my garage :-( lol, One is lost and the other is f-ed up. I ordered some more yesterday when I had a feeling I would have to have at least 1 to make a complete set for you. Those will be here today and ill send them for tomorrows delivery.
Jon







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Dubsquad83 (Feb 16, 2005)

so has anyone made any logs or gotten a dyno yet??


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (Dubsquad83)*

nope...its pretty difficult to get the injector seats...since many vw dealers dont carry them as a regular part.
Hey Jon, did you send those out yesterday?
Let me know


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

hopefully my inserts are supposed to be coming in the mail today...if they do...i will spend the night getting it on and running about 18-22 psi through it...ill let you know how it feels http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
as for dyno...thats going to have to at least wait until next weekend because i will be heading out of town this weekend


----------



## Kas1.8t (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*

Do you guys do free shipping like NA motorsports??


----------



## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Kas1.8t)*

Anyone at ABD considered including the seats with the manifold, since they are NEEDED?


----------



## Dubsquad83 (Feb 16, 2005)

yea thats pretty messed up that they don't throw in any seats after paying $500


----------



## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Dubsquad83)*

I didn't mean for free, I just meant to help customers not have to go through the issue of tracking them down. But in all honesty, they SHOULD be included/installed in the manifold.


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*

i agree...i received my mani...and would have had to wait an extra week plus if jon didnt help me out from perf cafe...
its funny though...becuase there is an oem throttle gasket that comes with the kit...why not the injector seats


----------



## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

cause the gasket is a few bux max, the injector seats are 45 each


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (EdsGTI20VT)*

yea, 47 to be exact....cmon...another 200 bucks added to the price makes this manfiold look attractive doesnt it?










_Modified by Midnight_1.8T at 5:57 PM 8-1-2005_


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

We have the injector seats we will sell for $25ea if you get a mani from us








(Basically we will sell the seats at cost)
Jon







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Johnny Blaze (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: (EdsGTI20VT)*

each injector seat is 45 dollars a piece??? those little plastic ones sitting under my injectors?


----------



## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Johnny Blaze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Johnny Blaze* »_each injector seat is 45 dollars a piece??? those little plastic ones sitting under my injectors?

Yes. At least they have now offered cost on them. A little late though...lol


----------



## Johnny Blaze (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*

man thats alot of bank to cash up on.. seems like so much $ to be paying for a mani


----------



## sandiegobmx (Mar 10, 2004)

You can't reuse the ones on the stock manifold? Seems like they'd pop out without too much of a hassle.


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (sandiegobmx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sandiegobmx* »_You can't reuse the ones on the stock manifold? Seems like they'd pop out without too much of a hassle.

Sometimes... Some of them will come right out, somtimes they are stuck like mad and dont want to come out.
jon


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*

1 more thing.... BMX!


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

ross's manifold is also 800 bux...plus again..the addition of a new fpr unless you buy the atp adapter
either way...its still really really really really expensive


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

bump


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (gt2437)*

well...what would you like to know
I do not have any dyno's yet, because i was having alittle trouble with the car over the weekend...you can tell though it makes a decent amount of power...
as for driveability...i personally cant tell that the car was changed...no idle problems or anything like that....then again i dont run a maf...so that may have an affect.
but for 500 bux ...i feel comfortable with my purchase


_Modified by Midnight_1.8T at 10:32 PM 8-2-2005_


----------



## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

Does your car still hit hard at the same RPM as it used to??
Have you noticed any loss in torque down low?


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (transient_analysis)*

well i dont have anything down low so to speak(because of the turbo)...but the power hits hard at 4k...and the wastegate is open and roaring by 4.5
and i am still wihout any lemmiwinks tuning to help spool the turbo.
So with all that being said...with a limited slip...and the five speed... at 22 psi the car is struggling to keep traction in second...and it is freaking moving up top
by struggling i mean it loses and gains traction the whole way through the gear...as it pulls left and right...its a scary ride










_Modified by Midnight_1.8T at 1:36 PM 8-3-2005_


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

I am confused what manifodl you are running?

you mention that you installed a ross machine mani, and then you say you are dynoing stock vs abd. Which are you currently running? Also you got any logs?


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (enginerd)*

no logs as of yet...i wanted to make sure everything is running ok before i A) dyno it B) do logs on it

never ran the ross manifold...
but i do know that ross's manifold needs some other parts in order to run it...at least from what i have seen


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

I am hoping to see 400whp with the turbo...before the new set up goes in...
the new set up will be a 2.0 (1.8t block, AEG Crank)
cams
equal length exhaust manifold
bigger exhaust housing
and new software...from someone else who has a gt30r...


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

EPL?


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

exactly...which is why i gave this one a shot http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_EPL?

???


----------



## kellygti (Sep 5, 2003)

Buddy of mine just installed this setup. all i can say is F^ckin Sick! It looks so B.A.!! He said 3rd feels awesome as hell too. He is polishing himself too and it looks awesome. Seriously like twice the size of stock. One hot upgrade, with his front mount along with other upgrades he is running around 230whp. Congrats to anyone else that has it. And congrats to ABD for an awesome part!
Let me correct myself... He had 220whp before the upgrade, Now he is at like 230-233 whp


_Modified by kellygti at 11:19 AM 8-3-2005_


----------



## Wicked1.8T (Oct 28, 2004)

*Re: (kellygti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kellygti* »_Buddy of mine just installed this setup. all i can say is F^ckin Sick! It looks so B.A.!! He said 3rd feels awesome as hell too. He is polishing himself too and it looks awesome. Seriously like twice the size of stock. One hot upgrade, with his front mount along with other upgrades he is running around 230whp. Congrats to anyone else that has it. And congrats to ABD for an awesome part!
Let me correct myself... He had 220whp before the upgrade, Now he is at like 230-233 whp

_Modified by kellygti at 11:19 AM 8-3-2005_

Lets see the dynos, and for the the love of god please don't lett his be an out of ass guess.


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (kellygti)*

That's the best info so far but what we really need is to see a dyno so we know where the gains are and if there are any regions of loss. Does he have dyno sheets of before and after?


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (groftja)*

i will have dynos for everyone in a little bit..i am going away this weekend so i will not be able ot hit the dyno
so it will probably occur next weekend...or if i can get a day off work this upcoming week.
again...my dyno is going to be skewed because of the turbo...so everyone running the k03 will not see the same results that i will from it


----------



## Wicked1.8T (Oct 28, 2004)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Midnight_1.8T* »_i will have dynos for everyone in a little bit..i am going away this weekend so i will not be able ot hit the dyno
so it will probably occur next weekend...or if i can get a day off work this upcoming week.
again...my dyno is going to be skewed because of the turbo...so everyone running the k03 will not see the same results that i will from it

This is true, but *dyno proven* gains will prove that it is doing it's job, obviously we won't see the same results, but we will see results.


----------



## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (kellygti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kellygti* »_Buddy of mine just installed this setup. all i can say is F^ckin Sick! It looks so B.A.!! He said 3rd feels awesome as hell too. He is polishing himself too and it looks awesome. Seriously like twice the size of stock. One hot upgrade, with his front mount along with other upgrades he is running around 230whp. Congrats to anyone else that has it. And congrats to ABD for an awesome part!
Let me correct myself... He had 220whp before the upgrade, Now he is at like 230-233 whp


Don't you think your friend should be polishing himself in the privacy of his own home?
And if you're just guessing at the HP figures, then you


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (kellygti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kellygti* »_Let me correct myself... He had 220whp before the upgrade, Now he is at like 230-233 whp

I would guess by this post that you are GUESSING his new HP after the manifold install?







The "like" is what gives the guessing part away. Plus on a dyno there wouldn't be a range, but a concrete number.
Man even the people installing the manifold are dancing around the #'s issue.


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

easy easy....somethings come before a dyno....perhaps i want to hit that 400whp mark on the dyno....when i go...
but i do like how that guy guess its 233whp...not 234..or 235 for that matter








Posts like that is what makes this mani so iffy....


----------



## kellygti (Sep 5, 2003)

I can have him get a before and after dyno for you all. He says the responce is a little lacking low end, after 3 he says it kicks more, so... 
He is gonna dyno in a day or so. I know APR sucks at customer service but we will try to get this up soon. Patience is a Virtue


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

should i make a post about how much of a PITA it was to install...???
problem is...it wasnt ABD's fault...it just took forever


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Midnight_1.8T* »_should i make a post about how much of a PITA it was to install...???
problem is...it wasnt ABD's fault...it just took forever

I wouldn't mind hearing about issues and problems about installing this. Even if its not ABDs fault, I would like to know potential problem areas and how you got past them.


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

Who wants to post a few pics with some measurements showing mounting dimension differences between stock and ABD manifolds? Hit me with IM, and I will e-mail them to you.


----------



## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (kilmer420)*

sweet i can use some of these pics....
Problems i that occured during the install...
when you pull the stock mani everything goes smoothly..unless you are big turbo like me and lose on of the spacers for your larger injectors...which took forever to find.
there is a hose that runs from underneath the mani through between the third and fourth runner i believe. well on the abd manifold it would not fit back up though...this was not a problem because there is enough slack in the lines to leave it sit underneath the manifold.
Next issue i ran into was the fact that there are two metallic lines that run directly underneath the fuel rail. There are bends at the end of these lines that work well with the stock manifold, and allow for the normal bolt in pattern to work....(they are screwed down to the stock manifold sharing the screws with the fuel rail.) well with the new width of the abd runners. the passenger side will bolt up, but the driver side will not. we just got out a dremmel tool and took away one of the sides of little flange so it would sit cleanly ...*make sure you don't cut the whole thing off or it will mess up the spacing of the injectors and they will not sit correctly in the ports*
The putting in the fuel rail bolts on the new mani is a fun task in itself...the aluminum the manifold is made of is extremely soft. If you do not thread the screws right you may mess up the thread pattern...Its not a big deal if you do...I did...Just work them in again...make sure everything is straight...and work it until it goes in correctly. 
I found the same issue as stated above with the throttle body, but it was taken care of...with a few hard turns.
The job took a long time because of random mishaps, both on my behalf and my buddies...the only thing i could not bolt up was the large bung on the bottom of the manifold which is being measured in the very first pic on the bottom...but other than that...it was an easy install... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Oh yea...and leave on the "NOT FOR STREET LEGAL USE" sticker...it is a peice of flare...


_Modified by Midnight_1.8T at 2:16 PM 8-4-2005_


----------



## puredrive1 (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

dyno please


----------



## aqua_blue_pearl_g60 (Dec 4, 2001)

Still no dyno?? seems disappointing...


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (aqua_blue_pearl_g60)*

haha...sorry guys...i am in jersey for the weekend seeing the GF...the abd manifold isnt my number one priority right now....and next weekend i will be down with steve soda getting my equal length installed with the 63 housing...so...the dyno wont happen for alittle bit...but you guys have waited a year for this product...so two more weeks shouldnt be a problem http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (kellygti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kellygti* »_He is polishing himself too and it looks awesome. 

Is "polishing himself" a euphamism for "spanking the monkey"? Why were you watching?


----------



## puredrive1 (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Midnight_1.8T* »_haha...sorry guys...i am in jersey for the weekend seeing the GF...the abd manifold isnt my number one priority right now....and next weekend i will be down with steve soda getting my equal length installed with the 63 housing...so...the dyno wont happen for alittle bit...but you guys have waited a year for this product...so two more weeks shouldnt be a problem http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

so you are adding more mods before you dyno?









well if so then it would not be a fair comparison..for the manifold


----------



## aqua_blue_pearl_g60 (Dec 4, 2001)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*



so two more weeks shouldnt be a problem [IMG said:


> http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]


what is this revo?


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (puredrive1)*

easy home dog.....ill be taking the manifold off and putting it back on...on the dyno...so that it will be the only thing changed...i just want to get numbers with all my stuff on the car http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
so to rephrase...the abd mani will be taken off for the first few runs...then the car will cool down...and the abd manifold will be going back on....hence...the only thing changed will be the abd manifold...some of you guys are really screwy...and fyi...this isnt a quick 30min swap over....so i will be wasting dyno time...to get you guys results...**** like this makes me want to just go dyno my car...and then screw around with lemmiwinks...and not worry about you guys
I know you guys want to see this thing make power.For the money it could be a steal. and i am sure there is that one person that wants to see this thing do terribly. 




_Modified by Midnight_1.8T at 4:04 PM 8-7-2005_


----------



## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

I see where you're coming from. Everyone is busting your balls. But if you did that, you wouldn't know if it was worth the money you spent.







Afraid of the truth? (I am in no means rushing you to dyno, I think what you're doing is cool.)


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

We just got a few more of these mani's and some more injector seats in stock... just fyi as last week we were out.

Jon


----------



## 01 Wolfsburg (May 7, 2003)

*Re: (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_Got any dyno sheets before and after to go along w/ that new stock of manifolds?









I wouldn't count on it. ABD and its distributors are scared to death of the word "dyno".


----------



## Jesse'Z JeT (Jan 19, 2005)

with all this fuss of dyno #'s im surprised ABD hasnt jumped on it. well lets see 7 pages of complaints for dyno numbers and like 50 people wanting to buy one if it puts out...hmmmmm if it does what they say that is 25k worth of intake manifolds right there.










_Modified by Jesse'Z JeT at 1:29 PM 8-7-2005_


----------



## Scarab_Beetle (Dec 11, 2004)

Seriously, I don't understand why ABD thinks for some reason that its good business to not provide a dyno of this. Maybe they haven't been on Vortex lately to see the outcry, but i HIGHLY doubt it. If i saw a dyno, or hell, at least a flow sheet with CFM comparison numbers over the stocker, I don't think it would take much more to convince me to grab one so that I have it once I get a few more of my bigger mods going. But until i see SOMEONE dyno it with a before and after on the same day, with 3 runs on each mani, i'm not gonna drop $500.


----------



## Jesse'Z JeT (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (Scarab_Beetle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scarab_Beetle* »_Seriously, I don't understand why ABD thinks for some reason that its good business to not provide a dyno of this. Maybe they haven't been on Vortex lately to see the outcry, but i HIGHLY doubt it. If i saw a dyno, or hell, at least a flow sheet with CFM comparison numbers over the stocker, I don't think it would take much more to convince me to grab one so that I have it once I get a few more of my bigger mods going. But until i see SOMEONE dyno it with a before and after on the same day, with 3 runs on each mani, i'm not gonna drop $500.
word...killer times by the way. over in the 20th/337/GLI forum they monitor that all the time.....so im sure they read this daily.


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: (Jesse'Z JeT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jesse’Z JeT* »_with all this fuss of dyno #'s im surprised ABD hasnt jumped on it. well lets see 7 pages of complaints for dyno numbers and like 50 people wanting to buy one if it puts out...hmmmmm if it does what they say that is 25k worth of intake manifolds right there.









_Modified by Jesse'Z JeT at 1:29 PM 8-7-2005_

There is alot of us waiting for this.. something smells fishy. But maybe like there customer service ABD just doesn't care.
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
Richard 

P.S.This in no way means I am disrespecting the Performance Cafe.










_Modified by Dubsport Inc at 8:29 PM 8-7-2005_


----------



## rj11c (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (Scarab_Beetle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scarab_Beetle* »_ I'm not gonna drop $500.

you mean $700 with injector seats, eventuly we will see the truth but I'm still hoping it's going to make some power 


_Modified by rj11c at 9:15 PM 8-7-2005_


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_Got any dyno sheets before and after to go along w/ that new stock of manifolds?









I wish..


----------



## Hybrid VW (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

Where are the before/after dynos of the RMR manifold?


----------



## Dubsquad83 (Feb 16, 2005)

bump on any new info or feedback


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (Dubsquad83)*

not yet...ill give the dyno a call and see if they can make an appt for late at night...ie like 8...830...friday night. I know its sad that i have nothing better to do on a friday night except go dyno this mani for you guys...but...if it makes the power i think its making then there will be plenty of







's going on later that night...if it doesnt, well then there will be plenty of







's in order to recover my loss...emotionally








if i dont get to the dyno this weekend though it wont happen the weekend after because jcdouglas and i are going down to see vasteve and get my new ish on...then we will hopefully see about 400whp on pump...at least thats the goal http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## roly (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Midnight_1.8T* »_if i dont get to the dyno this weekend though it wont happen the weekend after because jcdouglas and i are going down to see vasteve and get my new ish on...then we will hopefully see about 400whp on pump...at least thats the goal http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

so then an _after_ dyno will be pointless.


----------



## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (roly)*

He's said several times that he will dyno with the stock and then the ABD manifold as the only change.


----------



## PHAT (Mar 5, 2005)

Whats this RMR Manifold you guys are speaking of.
Has someone posted up pics of it yet?
It wouldn't be that hard to get fuel lines and a fuel reg put on.


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickK03Crap* »_He's said several times that he will dyno with the stock and then the ABD manifold as the only change. 








some people just can't comprehend what they read


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (PHAT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PHAT* »_Whats this RMR Manifold you guys are speaking of.
Has someone posted up pics of it yet?
It wouldn't be that hard to get fuel lines and a fuel reg put on.

but that would be an extra 50 bux for lines...and then another 100 plus for a fpr....and then if it doesnt come with a rail ...then thats another 110+
so that 800...quickly jumps to over a grand


----------



## roly (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickK03Crap* »_He's said several times that he will dyno with the stock and then the ABD manifold as the only change. 

but according to his statement, he might not be able to dyno this week or next because he's getting new stuff put on. that's how i read it.


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (roly)*

yea...and i have said...when i dyno the car...it will be taken off and replaced with the stock mani....put at least 5 runs on it...and then dyno with the abd mani...at least 5 runs...no other changes.
and then if the stock makes more..then ill go back to the stock mani and try to hit 400whp...
fyi...its going to take over an hour for this bad boy to cool down to the point where we would be able to take the mani off....therefore i'll be paying dyno time for you guys...at least appriciate the trouble...i know i shouldnt be going through it for you guys, it should abd...but they arent stepping up and i need to dyno again anyways...so i say screw it and do the community a favor


----------



## Dubsquad83 (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Midnight_1.8T* »_not yet...ill give the dyno a call and see if they can make an appt for late at night...ie like 8...830...friday night. I know its sad that i have nothing better to do on a friday night except go dyno this mani for you guys...but...if it makes the power i think its making then there will be plenty of







's going on later that night...if it doesnt, well then there will be plenty of







's in order to recover my loss...emotionally








if i dont get to the dyno this weekend though it wont happen the weekend after because jcdouglas and i are going down to see vasteve and get my new ish on...then we will hopefully see about 400whp on pump...at least thats the goal http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

good luck to you when u go on the dyno http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i hope to see some good results out of this


----------



## PHAT (Mar 5, 2005)

What sort of money would you guys pay max! for the best manifold on the market if it came with everything but fuel reg?
Just curious.
A mate of mine in Sydney is Making Billet inlet plenums for DSM cars and is finishing off one for the 1.8T, hes going to have one for a3,golf,s3,tt and a4.


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (PHAT)*

or you can all get an intake mani from racecraft fabrications which is made to your spec and sells for $600 for the intake mani w/ injector seats and fuel rail


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (PHAT)*

everyone is selling them for around 800...but leave you with the new fuel lines...if decided to step away from the rubber stockers, which is suggested with an upgraded rail. and you still need a fpr...
if he can produce one that would use stock shiz...ie temp sensor....all the line hook ups...and stock fuel rail...and keep it under 800...it would be a deal...thats the only reason i picked up the abd one...because it takes care of all this stuff


----------



## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_or you can all get an intake mani from racecraft fabrications which is made to your spec and sells for $600 for the intake mani w/ injector seats and fuel rail









Can you help us out with a link on that one?


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*

http://www.racecraft-fabrication.com/


----------



## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Oh, zornig. lol Whoops.


----------



## PHAT (Mar 5, 2005)

When you guys go to sleep (I'm in Australia), I'll try to get some photos of the DSM one for you to get an idea.
Though the 1.8T will be a bit more expensive because it will allow for any style of injector and you want need to buy those plastic injector seat for it either (the DSM one does not have injector mount build into it like the 1.8T).


----------



## PHAT (Mar 5, 2005)

Its 4.30am over here i'm going to sleep!
chat to you guys later.
Ben


----------



## slickfisher (Oct 16, 2004)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

Yes, I'm courious about intake velocity with such a big pipe. It seems at low RPM's velocity/turbulence would suffer. 
Yes, Yes, we have turbos so cylinder filling at low rpms is not such an issue (*especially with K03's*), but BT's: I wonder if they would see a torque drop down low before the snail spools. But still angle and the overall volume makes me wonder.
Probably a great BT/racing nose. Good Luck.


----------



## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (slickfisher)*

Wow..... I am shocked ABD is STILL ignoring this. There's no way in hell I'd consider buying this thing now. They've stalled for MONTHS. This thread was dead for a couple of weeks and we still get absolute silence from them. Goes to show you what kind of company they are. I think it's pretty clear they don't want us to know you'll get little to no power boost for your money and time. Piss poor service, folks. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (dcomiskey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcomiskey* »_Wow..... I am shocked ABD is STILL ignoring this. There's no way in hell I'd consider buying this thing now. They've stalled for MONTHS. This thread was dead for a couple of weeks and we still get absolute silence from them. Goes to show you what kind of company they are. I think it's pretty clear they don't want us to know you'll get little to no power boost for your money and time. Piss poor service, folks. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

sadly, people have proven that they will buy just about anything that claims any sort of power gains even without proof, especially if there is bling factor involved. ABD knows this and chooses to wait and see if they HAVE to come on here and defend their product. is it shady of them? you betcha and I'm with you on this. i'm not shelling out a cent for a product that provides 0HP PROVEN GAINS. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## sandiegobmx (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Midnight_1.8T* »_yea...and i have said...when i dyno the car...it will be taken off and replaced with the stock mani....put at least 5 runs on it...and then dyno with the abd mani...at least 5 runs...no other changes.
and then if the stock makes more..then ill go back to the stock mani and try to hit 400whp...
fyi...its going to take over an hour for this bad boy to cool down to the point where we would be able to take the mani off....therefore i'll be paying dyno time for you guys...at least appriciate the trouble...i know i shouldnt be going through it for you guys, it should abd...but they arent stepping up and i need to dyno again anyways...so i say screw it and do the community a favor

Since no one else seemed to say it, I will. Thanks.


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (sandiegobmx)*

yea, thanks man.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: (slickfisher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slickfisher* »_ I wonder if they would see a torque drop down low before the snail spools.

that would be fantastic


----------



## JuniorMcNasty (Mar 14, 2004)

All this talking and no dyno yet ?


----------



## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Midnight_1.8T* »_yea...and i have said...when i dyno the car...it will be taken off and replaced with the stock mani....put at least 5 runs on it...and then dyno with the abd mani...at least 5 runs...no other changes.
and then if the stock makes more..then ill go back to the stock mani and try to hit 400whp...
fyi...its going to take over an hour for this bad boy to cool down to the point where we would be able to take the mani off....therefore i'll be paying dyno time for you guys...at least appriciate the trouble...i know i shouldnt be going through it for you guys, it should abd...but they arent stepping up and i need to dyno again anyways...so i say screw it and do the community a favor

Thank you. I think it absolutely SUCKS that ABD is making one of its customers pay to dyno this thing instead of being upfront with their "customers." http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (dcomiskey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcomiskey* »_
Thank you. I think it absolutely SUCKS that ABD is making one of its customers pay to dyno this thing instead of being upfront with their "customers." http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

it does suck to be honest, but oh well...it needs to be done, i have it on the car currently and it "Feels faster" and even a buddy asked me if i did anything else to the car when i took him for a spin and he said it felt faster...yes the spool is alittle slower, but that is expected with the extra volume of the manifold.
but like i said before...i dont want to get into that it feels fast BS...Ill let the dyno speak for itself.


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (slickfisher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slickfisher* »_but BT's: I wonder if they would see a torque drop down low before the snail spools. But still angle and the overall volume makes me wonder.
Probably a great BT/racing nose. Good Luck.

like i said...the volume difference is large, and the angle seems pretty much just like stock to me.
as i said...the car doesnt spool as fast as it used to...but nothing major...i dont spin the whole way through second anymore...only 3/4 of the way through now. but when it grabs third its unbelieveable...i just cant wait to get some slicks so i can finally take this thing to the track and see a decent time..the .48 exhaust housing is kicking my A$$


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: (PHAT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PHAT* »_Whats this RMR Manifold you guys are speaking of.
Has someone posted up pics of it yet?
It wouldn't be that hard to get fuel lines and a fuel reg put on.


----------



## SHUMopper (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*

saw this thing on a guys car at waterfest. it was legit....he told me $600 for the manifold and fuel rail. Cant beat that.


----------



## PHAT (Mar 5, 2005)

*BLING plenum!*

It seems very expensive for something that uses factory runners?
I had a look at his web site, and from what i can see all he does is cut off the factory plenum stick on some bell mouths and incase it all in a what looks to be a bit of rolled sheet and bit of flat plate aluminium?
Fuel rail costs very little and a friend of mine should be selling 1.8T fuel rails for about $80 US very shortly.
Looks OK!
Good photo.


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: BLING plenum! (PHAT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PHAT* »_It seems very expensive for something that uses factory runners?

lol thats 100% custom








EDIT:
Not the best pick but you can see the runners...










_Modified by Boostin20v at 12:39 PM 8-11-2005_


----------



## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: BLING plenum! (Boostin20v)*

I wouldnt doubt if he had his CNC make the plate and then just cut the runners preformed that way and tig it all together.
I have seen lots of his work in person and its simply you get what you pay for. With Ross Machine you get top notch stuff all the time.


----------



## PHAT (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: BLING plenum! (jamesb)*

Sorry the plenum i saw his web site was another one then, sorry.


----------



## 20vWolf (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Boostin20v* »_









WOW! That's BEAUTIFUL!!!...Any Dyno numbers for that? Where can I buy? And is that made for BDW?


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

dont forget the fpr








i seriously thought this all out...and came to my decision this way...if i went with another intake mani i was going to spend another 300 on it...and then have to buy a fuel rail and fpr..which i did have at the current time. but i wasnt exactly stoked about running new fuel lines, or trying to use my stockers with a fitting from home depot.
so i sat down and thought about the physics of it. the manifold plen is bigger, the runners are some what tappered. has a higher overall volume, and i can keep all my stock stuff. why not give it a shot...
oh yea...and about it not being dyno proven.....neither are any of these other mani's.....that cost more


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_http://www.rossmachineracing.com/20vintake.html I believe its the same cost as their 16v intake manifold...$699. They also have a 1.8T fuel rail thats like $130.

the manifold I posted above, the fuel rail is built in


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Boostin20v* »_
the manifold I posted above, the fuel rail is built in

so how do you change out injectors?...if its built in?


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

err, I meant included....


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*

its all good...i was just wondering because i couldnt see the bolts on it, but that was just from the pic quality


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

bad pic, but you can see the bolts


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*

yea the thing that made me the most edgy about messing around with the fuel lines and stuff have been the recent fire on my buddies 20th (imola_monster). and i didn't want to mess with fuel lines after seeing that he upgraded his fuel rail and had steel braided lines on it and they were installed professionally. his car was totaled...and i just didn't want to touch that realm


_Modified by Midnight_1.8T at 5:02 PM 8-12-2005_


----------



## RichB (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: (20vWolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20vWolf* »_
WOW! That's BEAUTIFUL!!!...

Looks even nicer when on a motor... Here is a pic of the RMR manifold on a car I saw at the Deustche Works show last week:








Pics of the ABD and Dahlback manifold I took at WF in case somone wants to see how they look next to picturs of the RMR one.


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

my manifold....not my shaky hands


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*

This one got stale... ttt
Richard


----------



## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (Dubsport Inc)*

TTT
The world awaits! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## JuniorMcNasty (Mar 14, 2004)

DYNO MOFOS !!!


----------



## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

why doesn't PERFCAFE dyno this item? there is a thought http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## samrabbit (Feb 18, 2002)

*Re: (Kilmer)*

the stock throtle body is the choke to making 20v motor come alive and I'm working on something with the flybywire system. patience..

accel style real big plenum with gm throtle body using nice domestic parts that are proven to make power. a1 style with throtle cable.


----------



## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (samrabbit)*

oh ish its a camaro lol.....noice, out of curiosity what is the theory behind the throttle body being the restriction? im interested to see how this works....is that an ABA block i see


_Modified by DubTron41 at 2:23 PM 8-26-2005_


----------



## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_The smaller TB causes an airflow restriction before you ever get air to the intake manifold...thats the restriction. Less air = less power basically.

I understand the theory, however I was curious on how it was found that the our stock TB was a restriction in the first place, I mean you can also only go so big before u lose velocity or it becomes pointless do to runner size, although I could be way off here


----------



## samrabbit (Feb 18, 2002)

*Re: (DubTron41)*

only vw's dont have BIGaftermarket throtle bodies so its a much avoided subject.
ha, not here.








every single honda/acura/import/domestic car that makes big hp, has a BIG throtle body(not a polished 1mm bigger, but at least 10mm bigger).
hp is about moving air in and out, and the stock throtle body is fine for little hp, but a problem when you want alot.
fly by wire complicates things, but I have a way around it.
working on something now.


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (samrabbit)*

I don't know what kinda throttlebody Steve used, but he put down 680+whp outa his 18t.......


----------



## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (Kilmer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kilmer* »_why doesn't PERFCAFE dyno this item? there is a thought http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

My suspicion is that ABD is prohibiting anyone from doing a dyno. I know that sounds crazy, but that's the only thing that might make sense. Some sort of NDA? To those suckers who bought one, can you comment?


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (dcomiskey)*

That is the a severe case of conspiracy theory that is ridiculous and I don't even respect ABD. I say this because ABD doesn't have the ability to prohibit people from dynoing even if they wanted to...unless they have secret agents out watching everyone with the manifold and open up their machnie guns on the people on the way to the dyno.


----------



## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_unless they have secret agents out watching everyone with the manifold and open up their machnie guns on the people on the way to the dyno.

or better yet ninjas w/ nunchucks & throwing stars


----------



## Johnny Blaze (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: (groftja)*

the ABD gestapos..too funny


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

True but they can't stop the common people...the yeomen...the subjects of the people's republic of whatever from dynoing and posting the results. BTW, the Chinese Mafia killed Kennedy.


----------



## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_That is the a severe case of conspiracy theory that is ridiculous and I don't even respect ABD. I say this because ABD doesn't have the ability to prohibit people from dynoing even if they wanted to...unless they have secret agents out watching everyone with the manifold and open up their machnie guns on the people on the way to the dyno.

Oh, I know that. All I'm saying is that I find it REALLY weird that this thing has been out for a few months now, ABD has now gone completely silent on the issue, its distributors haven't stepped up to the plate and now one customer has either.


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_True but they can't stop the common people...the yeomen...the subjects of the people's republic of whatever from dynoing and posting the results. BTW, the Chinese Mafia killed Kennedy.









Unless the "common" people who already have them don't want to put a dyno up because they waisted money on a non proven mani and they wasted dyno time and money.....in turn didn't want to look stupid, so it's just on a hush hush.....But in the end, unless somebody posts something up, none of us will really know.


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

you guys are way too much


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

It really is a pain to dyno before/after and install the thing. It can cost a couple hundred for dyno time assuming you dyno, install while on dyno and repeat. Why spend 500$ on a part that doesn't work and 200$ more to find out it doesn't work. 
I'm holding out for a dyno for this part, however a performance shop with a dyno is really the only way i think this will happen.
perhaps ABD can give one to the dyno master flex AKA bobqzzi to compare stock Vs ABD on his monster motor and engine dyno. Best controlled conditions you will ever see


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

That may be true about people being embarrassed. I think I might be one of the ones who would be so pissed at the company that I WOULD post a dyno showing it didn't do anything or lost power. I think there are others who would feel the same...posting the dyno would be a form of revenge.


----------



## V84LNCH (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (enginerd)*

abd wouldn't do that. they wold prolly make bob sign an agreement, that results couldn't be released until they review and approve. 
now, if someone else swung him the manifold...


----------



## Dubsquad83 (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote »_ perhaps ABD can give one to the dyno master flex AKA bobqzzi to compare stock Vs ABD on his monster motor and engine dyno. Best controlled conditions you will ever see





_Modified by Dubsquad83 at 10:36 AM 8-26-2005_


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_It really is a pain to dyno before/after and install the thing. It can cost a couple hundred for dyno time assuming you dyno, install while on dyno and repeat. Why spend 500$ on a part that doesn't work and 200$ more to find out it doesn't work.

As long as the conditions are very similar it doesn't have to be dynoed the exact same day. Just make sure its dynoed in the same temps/humidity and on the same shops dyno. A couple/few pulls on each day would also keep fluxuations of the dynos measurements down as you could average the charts to get a good middle ground. Do this for both days and it should give close enough results to be very valid. A single dyno is around $65, 3 is usually like $85. Total that's $170 to know that your car is making more power and to see where you gained the power and see if thats really what you wanted. If someone would send me the manifold I'll dyno, install it, and dyno afterwards. It's really not that hard...I'm just not dropping $600 (w/ injectors seats) on a manifold that can't even be proven by the maker to produce power and they CLAIM it does. Thats the main reason people are so hard on this product...they CLAIM power w/o ANY proof.







ABD also has a history of less than stellar "performance" products.


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

let's not let this one die! ABD give us some answers.
Richard


----------



## Dubsquad83 (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: (Dubsport Inc)*

i refuse to buy this part simply because there is no dyno... and i know a hell of a lot of other people think the same way.








come on ABD!!!!!


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (Dubsquad83)*

lets get this thread back in the light. Midnight_18T, have you had time to dyno yours before and after yet?


----------



## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

i love how abd has not chimed in once, u know that they are reading this thread swapping each other off......the last time they posted in the mk4 forum (probably a good percentage of their sales from there) they ended up getting chewed out and haven't posted since......nothing like a tuner giving the public the old huckelbuck


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_lets get this thread back in the light. Midnight_18T, have you had time to dyno yours before and after yet?









not yet....school started back up so its possible this weekend. ill give the dyno shop a call and see if they can slide me in...Yo jeff i know you are on....wanna come up to pa for a dyno this weekend?


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

ABD is a joke, I can't believe people are still interested in this product I know I'm not. Obviously the product doesn't deliver. There is not another company as large as ABD that doesn't back up there product. APR, AUTOTECH, TT, EIP aren't afraid to pony up dynos. Even smaller companies like Eurojet and Tyrolsport back up there stuff. Back when I my 2.0, upon request Neuspeed emailed me dynos of additional tests they peformed with extra modifications to their supercharger. Those tests only netted 3whp more but you know what - Neuspeed still had the decency to email them to me not play stupid games. I'm taking my money elsewhere. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: (TooLFan46n2)*

Some of us are not interested in the product (or any product from ABD for that matter). I am just trying to see how ABD is going to answer this post or are they going to weasel out. I had a chuckle watching the TV show wattching ABD tighten the lower strut housing on the MK5 project car with an impact and a pair of visegrips... hello torque wrench!!! VERY UNPROFESSIONAL.
Richard


----------



## V84LNCH (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (Dubsport Inc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dubsport Inc* »_ ABD is going to answer this post or are they going to *weasel out. *

i've got $20 on the latter.


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: (V84LNCH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V84LNCH* »_
i've got $20 on the latter.









I don't think you will find anyone to take that bet








Richard


----------



## Tristan (Aug 2, 2001)

*Re: (Dubsport Inc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dubsport Inc* »_Some of us are not interested in the product (or any product from ABD for that matter). I am just trying to see how ABD is going to answer this post or are they going to weasel out. I had a chuckle watching the TV show wattching ABD tighten the lower strut housing on the MK5 project car with an impact and a pair of visegrips... hello torque wrench!!! VERY UNPROFESSIONAL.
Richard










Or how about putting aftermarket lowering spring on with stock shocks. ABD sucks http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (Tristan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tristan* »_

Or how about putting aftermarket lowering spring on with stock shocks. ABD sucks http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Wow, I didn't know ABD worked on Honda's.


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

*Re: (samrabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *samrabbit* »_only vw's dont have BIGaftermarket throtle bodies so its a much avoided subject.
ha, not here.








every single honda/acura/import/domestic car that makes big hp, has a BIG throtle body(not a polished 1mm bigger, but at least 10mm bigger).
hp is about moving air in and out, and the stock throtle body is fine for little hp, but a problem when you want alot.
fly by wire complicates things, but I have a way around it.
working on something now.


sorry, your simply wrong... There are 4 hondas in my area, 3 of which make 800-850 whp, and the last one is making 760, all on totally stock Type r throttle bodies... NOT 10+ mm oversize. They ALL use 2.5" charge piping. 
Back in "the day" buck messed with larger throttle bodies and found absolutely no power... the only effect it has is to make the pedal more sensitive... (ie, small change in throttle plate angle = large throttle responce... annoying)... but there was ABSOLUTELY NO power gain... on the same topic, they messed with 3" charge piping, and found NO power gain, only more lag. 
so, it would be better if you had SOME experiance before your soon to be "product"... on a thread by another vendor, non the less.








As for the intake manifolds, the biggest difference between our manifold- stock- versus common 4 cylinder drag race / hi-po manifolds is the plenum volume. Typical plenum volume aftermarket runs in the 2-3x engine displacement- not around 1x... The plenum entry, being deeply shrouded by the plenum floor, also does not help. Neither does the #1 runner being half way out of the plenum itself. 



_Modified by fast_a2_20v at 9:33 AM 9-1-2005_


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Eldi (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (Dubsport Inc)*

Bump for comments from ABD...
It is high time that they post some information here, if they plan on pushing sales of their new product to our respectful TEX-community..


----------



## LA Wolfsburg (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (Eldi)*

lol id hardly call us respectful at this point


----------



## Scarab_Beetle (Dec 11, 2004)

*Re: (LA Wolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LA Wolfsburg* »_lol id hardly call us respectful at this point

At this point, they don't deserve respect....








How many potential customers in this thread alone, all just asking for proof that the product does as they claim, and they won't provide the information.... Thats piss poor marketing and customer service. And if Midnight does do the before and after dyno and comes up empty, than its poor engineering on top of it.
One things for sure, after all this, I wouldn't buy anything ABD just out of principle. When the time comes that I actually need a custom manifold, I'll be going with someone else. Ross Machine or Full Race might not provide dynos, but at least they don't make hp claims either.


----------



## Eldi (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (Scarab_Beetle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scarab_Beetle* »_
At this point, they don't deserve respect....








How many potential customers in this thread alone, all just asking for proof that the product does as they claim, and they won't provide the information.... Thats piss poor marketing and customer service. And if Midnight does do the before and after dyno and comes up empty, than its poor engineering on top of it.
One things for sure, after all this, I wouldn't buy anything ABD just out of principle. When the time comes that I actually need a custom manifold, I'll be going with someone else. Ross Machine or Full Race might not provide dynos, but at least they don't make hp claims either.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
As to respectful, I meant us V-TEXERS (Certainly not ABD at this point http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif )


----------



## LaconiaGLI (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: (Eldi)*

hey just ordered the manifold. im in iraq right nwo so i got $$$$ to spend so what the hell and im going on rand r back to cthere in a week so i gotta have somehting in my car.enginerd i also live in marl by the way so get back i reall ywould like to see ur car http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (LaconiaGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LaconiaGLI* »_hey just ordered the manifold. im in iraq right nwo so i got $$$$ to spend so what the hell and im going on rand r back to cthere in a week so i gotta have somehting in my car.

Stay safe over there, I have a good friend in Iraq as well...worry about him every day.







If you have time while you are off, please dyno before and after and be a good American.


----------



## 01 Wolfsburg (May 7, 2003)

*Re: (VWTornado)*








for all the military personnel. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## LaconiaGLI (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

ill see what i can do about the dyno bear in mind my car isnt stock so i donno how reliable the turn out will be. but as i said ill do my best.


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (LaconiaGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LaconiaGLI* »_ill see what i can do about the dyno bear in mind my car isnt stock so i donno how reliable the turn out will be. but as i said ill do my best.

We don't care if the car is stock or highly modded, we would all just like to see a before and after dyno w/ the only change being the manifold. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## lax1492 (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

just wondering how many of us are watching this thread 100...200...300 people ..?? what if lets say we all sent an email to ABD I wonder what they will do.


----------



## V84LNCH (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (lax1492)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lax1492* »_ just wondering how many of us are watching this thread 100...200...300 people ..?? what if lets say we all sent an email to ABD I wonder what they will do.

nothing.


----------



## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (V84LNCH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V84LNCH* »_nothing.

I was thinking more along the lines of "Empty Inbox - Are You Sure?"


----------



## sandiegobmx (Mar 10, 2004)

I don't even know why I click this topic anymore.


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: (sandiegobmx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sandiegobmx* »_I don't even know why I click this topic anymore.

CAUSE IT'S FUNNY















Richard


----------



## Tristan (Aug 2, 2001)

*Re: (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_
Wow, I didn't know ABD worked on Honda's.









It was on a MKV jetta..lol


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: (Dubsport Inc)*

WE WANT ANSWERS, ABD


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (Dubsport Inc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dubsport Inc* »_WE WANT ANSWERS, ABD









9 Pages, 303 posts and no ABD yet. I doubt we will get answers as it sure seems they are dodging this and all the other intake manifold threads like they are the devil.


----------



## 4thvw (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_9 Pages, 303 posts and no ABD yet. I doubt we will get answers as it sure seems they are dodging this and all the other intake manifold threads like they are the devil.









When you lie, questions about the truth are the devil.


----------



## briang (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_
9 Pages, 303 posts and no ABD yet. I doubt we will get answers as it sure seems they are dodging this and all the other intake manifold threads like they are the devil.









And if ABD produced Dynomometer charts of their manifold and they indicated the manifold increased power...everyone that complained in this thread would call the dynos fake, falsified, fraudulent and BS.


----------



## mustmax (Jun 18, 2004)

*Re: (briang)*

At least there would be some sort of facts out there. Do they really want all this speculation and bad PR. I don't care one way or the other because I won't buy the product, but their repsonse or lack of response shows what kind of company they are. The only reason why I even follow these intake manifold topics are to see if I should ever make a purchase from them. Now whether I purchase from them or not, I'm sure it doesn't really matter to them. Lets face it though, the aftermarket world isn't that big, so at some point it will matter when eveyone who follows this thread won't purchase from them.


----------



## Klipse (Jul 4, 2004)

I hear they do nothing for the stock turbo...probably why there's no reply...


----------



## JuniorMcNasty (Mar 14, 2004)

Wow...I can't believe all this time and no dyno or answers . What a waste...


----------



## V84LNCH (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (JuniorMcNasty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JuniorMcNasty* »_Wow...I can't believe all this time and no dyno or answers . What a waste...

*A*nother *B*ad *D*esign want's you to call them for the "truth"


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (V84LNCH)*

baseline dyno coming thursday...but they cant let me in to change everything on the dyno...not enough time...so i will have to wait until another day with similar conditions
sorry guys...i tried to get it back to back, but this is the best i can do


----------



## jettasin00 (May 7, 2003)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

that would be fine. some runs with your set up now. then runs with the manifold installed a few days later. hopefully weather and the like stays around the same. good luck


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

lol they are too busy dyno testing their new beatle flower vase's.


----------



## Dubsquad83 (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_lol they are too busy dyno testing their new beatle flower vase's.


----------



## LA Wolfsburg (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

lol!


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Midnight_1.8T* »_sorry guys...i tried to get it back to back, but this is the best i can do

Hey, if thats what you can do its a whole lot more than ABD or anyone else has done so far. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Hopefully conditions will be close, just for more accurate results.


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: (VWTornado)*

Well after reading the ad in European Car they claim 10HP and 12 FT/LB, I guess we will finally see.
Richard


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

nah, we won't.


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

Cmon this is getting fun, lets see how many posts/pages till we get a dyno sheet.
Richard


----------



## TheCeleryStalker (Nov 13, 2001)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (PerfCafe)*

I've been lurking this thread for awhile. I must say that I CAN NOT COMPREHEND, how any company selling any performance part can make a claim and then not support it with proof. It is beyond me how ABD thinks they are above having to prove thier performance claims (especially with thier reputation). It is also beyond me how a company would have the nerve to berate its potential customers when they ask for proof of thier claims.
My 0.02 on this particular thread.


----------



## Johnny Blaze (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (TheCeleryStalker)*

why doesnt performance-cafe kick ABD in the @ss to get a dyno going..


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Johnny Blaze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Johnny Blaze* »_why doesnt performance-cafe kick ABD in the @ss to get a dyno going..









Why doesn't Performance Cafe put one on a car and dyno it? Its not like they don't have one (or 10) sitting around.


----------



## Johnny Blaze (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (VWTornado)*

they can send me one.. ill be glad to test it.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Johnny Blaze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Johnny Blaze* »_they can send me one.. ill be glad to test it.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I told NA Motorsports this over a month ago...no response.







I'll put it on ASAP (after dynoing the car as is now of course), and get a dyno at a reputable shop as soon as they can get me in after the dyno. I'm guessing there are so many stupid people buying them w/o a dyno that they just don't care.


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Johnny Blaze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Johnny Blaze* »_why doesnt performance-cafe kick ABD in the @ss to get a dyno going..









As of my last conversation (Yesterday) they had a car with back to back dyno's and were testing another in the next few days for an aditional comparison.... We will see.
Jon


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (PerfCafe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PerfCafe* »_As of my last conversation (Yesterday) they had a car with back to back dyno's and were testing another in the next few days for an aditional comparison.... We will see.
Jon


I'm guessing that means it did nothing, and they need to find a car that shows some gains.


----------



## Ricky_Rockstah (Aug 3, 2003)

How strong are the welds? I don't wanna worry about breaking them if I spray nitrous.


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_I told NA Motorsports this over a month ago...no response.







I'll put it on ASAP (after dynoing the car as is now of course), and get a dyno at a reputable shop as soon as they can get me in after the dyno. I'm guessing there are so many stupid people buying them w/o a dyno that they just don't care.

Or ABD dosent have anymore to sell so it gets filed on the back burner as far as a tuner shop, like NA or us to shell out $$$ to do a dyno when there is not even any to sell if the results go well... Or even one to install on a car to test. I had one here that I was going to install and test however it was sold :-( 
Jon







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (Ricky_Rockstah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ricky_Rockstah* »_How strong are the welds? I don't wanna worry about breaking them if I spray nitrous. 

Usually an intake mani only explodes if you get detonation or something goes seriously wrong...at that point the intake mani is the least of your worries.


_Modified by VWTornado at 12:05 PM 9-13-2005_


----------



## Johnny Blaze (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: (Ricky_Rockstah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ricky_Rockstah* »_How strong are the welds? I don't wanna worry about breaking them if I spray nitrous. 

isnt it a cast mani?


----------



## Johnny Blaze (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (PerfCafe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PerfCafe* »_
Or ABD dosent have anymore to sell so it gets filed on the back burner as far as a tuner shop, like NA or us to shell out $$$ to do a dyno when there is not even any to sell if the results go well... Or even one to install on a car to test. I had one here that I was going to install and test however it was sold :-( 
Jon







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Jon -- the problem with that a product is being sold that has no proof of performance (at least on paper)


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Johnny Blaze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Johnny Blaze* »_
Jon -- the problem with that a product is being sold that has no proof of performance (at least on paper)

And they claim performance...thats the biggest issue. They CLAIM performance w/ nothing to back the claims up.


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (VWTornado)*

Apperently they don't care if they are selling out of them.......if people a willing to just buy them on the word that it works........


----------



## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_Apperently they don't care if they are selling out of them.......if people a willing to just buy them on the word that it works........









I don't fault NA Motorsports or Performance Cafe for this...they are a business, and they sell the customers what they want. If the customer doesn't do the research or care about claimed/proven gains, let them waste there own money. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_
I don't fault NA Motorsports or Performance Cafe for this...they are a business, and they sell the customers what they want. If the customer doesn't do the research or care about claimed/proven gains, let them waste there own money. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

well put and this is what i was pretty much pointing out........


----------



## Ricky_Rockstah (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: (Johnny Blaze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Johnny Blaze* »_isnt it a cast mani?

haha. I was just being an idiot... F&F stuck in my head... blowin the welds on the intake... blah blah blah... sorry. no more humor from me


----------



## frprado (May 30, 2003)

*Re: (Ricky_Rockstah)*

even the turbonator has a Dyno Sheet


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

lol yea 
just becareful not to smudge (the turbonator) dyno sheet, crayon has a habit of smearing.


----------



## IY boy (Aug 19, 2003)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_lol yea 
just becareful not to smudge (the turbonator) dyno sheet, crayon has a habit of smearing.


----------



## rogue108 (May 14, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (ruso)*

I doubt that well will see large gains on stock turbos. The K03 and K04 turbos are small, don't move that much air and run out of their range of efficiency quickly. I haven't obviously haven't measured anything or considered all the variables, but I doubt that plenum volume is really an issue yet. I would address other things first like intercooling or turbo sizing. This isn't something I would personally pay much attention to unless I ran a bigger turbo. That is my $0.02...


----------



## LA Wolfsburg (May 8, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (rogue108)*

jon
im back in sc and we can use my car as a test car if you want. id even be willing to throw in some money for the dyno. let me know.
brett


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (LA Wolfsburg)*

ooooooo i would like to be there to see this......


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (LA Wolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LA Wolfsburg* »_jon
im back in sc and we can use my car as a test car if you want. id even be willing to throw in some money for the dyno. let me know.
brett

Im into it, shoot me a call or en email if you want to set somthing up.
Jon


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (PerfCafe)*

woot


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (VWTornado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTornado* »_
Why doesn't Performance Cafe put one on a car and dyno it? Its not like they don't have one (or 10) sitting around.









No disrespect... but Performance Cafe is not responsible to do their suppliers dyno tests for them to make the sale. Imagine how many intakes they would have to sell for the small amount of markup they make on this product to pay off. ABD is the one responsible to do the R&D on their product and post the results, but they are obviously selling a cosmetic item that does nothing for gains and misrepresenting it to the public??? Again this is not a direct hit to you "VW Tornado" but merely an observation.
thanks for my 0.02
Richard


----------



## Ricky_Rockstah (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Dubsport Inc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dubsport Inc* »_No disrespect... but Performance Cafe is not responsible to do their suppliers dyno tests for them to make the sale. Imagine how many intakes they would have to sell for the small amount of markup they make on this product to pay off. ABD is the one responsible to do the R&D on their product and post the results, but they are obviously selling a cosmetic item that does nothing for gains and misrepresenting it to the public??? Again this is not a direct hit to you "VW Tornado" but merely an observation.
thanks for my 0.02
Richard










That's why I like Jon. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Dubsquad83 (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (LA Wolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LA Wolfsburg* »_jon
im back in sc and we can use my car as a test car if you want. id even be willing to throw in some money for the dyno. let me know.
brett

Do it Do it!!


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Ricky_Rockstah)*

Jon (Perf Cafe) has been a real "business man" and very professional about this and for that you have to respect his ethics, he could have shut this post down along time ago but he did not, I am certain he would like to know also in the interest of selling his customers a product he can stand behind.
Richard http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (LA Wolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LA Wolfsburg* »_jon
im back in sc and we can use my car as a test car if you want. id even be willing to throw in some money for the dyno. let me know.
brett

Hell I would be willing to kick in $20 in the interest of knowing the real answers.
Richard


----------



## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (PerfCafe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PerfCafe* »_As of my last conversation (Yesterday) they had a car with back to back dyno's and were testing another in the next few days for an aditional comparison.... We will see.
Jon

I'm calling BS. They say that time and time again. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (dcomiskey)*

uneducated consumers > educated consumers = abd sells enough that they don't care


----------



## mrh216 (Mar 25, 2005)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (lax1492)*

I actually have this manifold and put it on my car. I have an 04 gti 1.8t and at first i didnt really notice anything, but the main gains are i can get to about 65 in second gear and 95 in third gear. It was a pain in the butt putting it on, it isnt just pull and plug it takes a little bit more time than that i would say about 3 hours. As for the fuel injector caps you can buy them at the dealer, where i got mine for 4.00 a piece so about 16 bucks total, not bad. I recomend this because i have seen in my opinion some great gains and i only have the giac chip, intake, and all samco hoses. If anyone has any other questions please let me know


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (mrh216)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrh216* »_I actually have this manifold and put it on my car. I have an 04 gti 1.8t and at first i didnt really notice anything, but the main gains are i can get to about 65 in second gear and 95 in third gear. It was a pain in the butt putting it on, it isnt just pull and plug it takes a little bit more time than that i would say about 3 hours. As for the fuel injector caps you can buy them at the dealer, where i got mine for 4.00 a piece so about 16 bucks total, not bad. I recomend this because i have seen in my opinion some great gains and i only have the giac chip, intake, and all samco hoses. If anyone has any other questions please let me know

and i do 75 in 2nd and 115 in 3rd.. on stock mani


----------



## Klipse (Jul 4, 2004)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (O2VW1.8T)*

Yea, I top out at around 102 in 3rd on the stock mani, stock turbo...


----------



## TheCeleryStalker (Nov 13, 2001)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Klipse)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Klipse* »_Yea, I top out at around 102 in 3rd on the stock mani, stock turbo...

same here, at the track I trap mid to high 90s and never get out of 3rd. Stock mani.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (TheCeleryStalker)*

That's probably the worst "test data" I have ever seen for a manifold. how about a vag com g/s log or knock voltage log, or spec vs actual boost log.


----------



## V84LNCH (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (DubTron41)*

we're talking about people which don't care about "true" gains. just what it "feels" like. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif i could say my tires made my car fell faster, doesn't mean they have.


----------



## SteveGTInyc (Nov 13, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (V84LNCH)*

I happened to be one of the "dopes" that bought this product not knowing the outcome.. I gave it a shot, why, i don't know, but the decision was made at waterfest to pick one up. By the naked eye one would think this thing has got to make power, but, with no dyno you never know .. 
It's been installed on my car for a couple weeks now.. car is an AWP, all the supporting mods, fmic yada yada .. GT28R, 440's, revo software.. Since im back at college i haven't had a second of time to myself, nor had the time to peak my head in a dyno..
Like everyone else, all i have is driving impressions. Only real thing i realize is the spool is about a hundred or two rpm's later ( which isn't a big deal since the boost on a 28R kicks in early enough ). As far as up top gains, its tough to say. The car pulls real nice to redline, and im convinced even if it did make another 10-15 hp it would probably be hard to feel .. Nonetheless, this is still a dead thread until someone see's a dyno.. Just though i'd throw in my 2 cents.. 
If anyone wants logs if I can get a chance I might be able to do some this weekend.. just list the block #'s since I dont know the #'s off the top of my head..
Cheers











_Modified by SteveGTInyc at 1:28 PM 9-15-2005_


----------



## sciroccoR (Dec 23, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_That's probably the worst "test data" I have ever seen for a manifold. how about a vag com g/s log or knock voltage log, or spec vs actual boost log. 

how about someone sends me one when bob Q and i build my engine and do dyno testing. or how about someone sends bob one and he can slap it on his motor which is on there right now. we could compare the ross machine racing vs. abd vs. stock vs. the bobQ special! pretty easy to change an intake on the engine dyno. 
anyway, this thread is a riot. i keep checking it to see if ABD's actually even replied.


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (SteveGTInyc)*

Are you gunna VAG-COM dyno it? If so, use blocks 120 for the dyno part and 115 for boost logs..
ad


----------



## SteveGTInyc (Nov 13, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (El Romano Loco)*

If i have some spare time ill run all the logs everyone wants me to ..


----------



## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (mrh216)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrh216* »_I actually have this manifold and put it on my car. I have an 04 gti 1.8t and at first i didnt really notice anything, but the main gains are i can get to about 65 in second gear and 95 in third gear. It was a pain in the butt putting it on, it isnt just pull and plug it takes a little bit more time than that i would say about 3 hours. As for the fuel injector caps you can buy them at the dealer, where i got mine for 4.00 a piece so about 16 bucks total, not bad. I recomend this because i have seen in my opinion some great gains and i only have the giac chip, intake, and all samco hoses. If anyone has any other questions please let me know

As was pointed out in another thread, you have no idea what you are talking about because unless you change gear ratios in your tranny, nothing is going to affect your speed in any given gear at a certain rpm. ABD *loves* people like you.


----------



## lax1492 (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (DubTron41)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubTron41* »_uneducated consumers > educated consumers = abd sells enough that they don't care

yep


----------



## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (lax1492)*

ttt


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (DubTron41)*

Congratulations, that ttt has awarded you a view of this:


----------



## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (groftja)*

it was worth every t


----------



## Kris... (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (DubTron41)*

this is a stupid thread http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Kris...)*

Kris 
the reaon why I still try to keep this thread going is that ABD should answer for its gains. They have not proved the gains that they quote, and sweeping it under the rug lets them get away with selling items that they cannot prove. They will not answer any of these threads and I want them to be accountable for their actions, or at least let the people in the forums see them for who they really are, and maybe educate some people who might in the future be a potential customers. You yourself would not like to be misled on performance gains to the price of $500 US that are not there.
Richard


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Dubsport Inc)*

I'm convinced it makes some power...how much i cant tell you...but i did dyno 398whp on 25 psi.....on a ****ty day, hot humid, low barametric day....
but then again like i said earlier in the thread....i would dyno the stock one...but since then the dyno has changed their prices...it was at 75 bux an hour for tuning as many runs as you want.....now its up to 200...which still isnt bad...but as you know...you cant swap them out in an hour...so that translates into 400. but like i said...last time i dynoed i made 340 something sae...and the only thing i changed was the exhaust housing and the intake manifold....and i picked up a reflash...so take it for whats its worth....i doubt the housing and reflash made a 55+hp difference.


----------



## TheCeleryStalker (Nov 13, 2001)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Dubsport Inc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dubsport Inc* »_Kris 
the reaon why I still try to keep this thread going is that ABD should answer for its gains. They have not proved the gains that they quote, and sweeping it under the rug lets them get away with selling items that they cannot prove. They will not answer any of these threads and I want them to be accountable for their actions, or at least let the people in the forums see them for who they really are, and maybe educate some people who might in the future be a potential customers. You yourself would not like to be misled on performance gains to the price of $500 US that are not there.
Richard










HAHAHAHA You said ABD and accountable for thier actions.


----------



## Hybrid VW (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Midnight_1.8T)*

Which housing did you switch? Exhaust? From which a/r to which? It would be interesting to see the differences in the tq. curve and get some opinions.
As far as ABD not replying to this thread, they never will, simply because it's a losing proposition either way. Even if they posted legitimate dynos that showed better than advertised gains, ther'd still be a sh!tstorm of "it's about f'n time"'s and "what took you guys so long"'s. Why would they waste their time?


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Hybrid VW)*

i switched from a .48 hot side...to a .63


----------



## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Hybrid VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hybrid VW* »_
As far as ABD not replying to this thread, they never will, simply because it's a losing proposition either way. Even if they posted legitimate dynos that showed better than advertised gains, ther'd still be a sh!tstorm of "it's about f'n time"'s and "what took you guys so long"'s. Why would they waste their time?

You probably have a point there








Richard


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## rmatthews9 (Sep 14, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Dubsport Inc)*

on a somewhat related note, anyone check out the HKK motorsports intake manifold? I put my money up and will be participating in before/after dyno testing with their manifold!
Oct-22nd, what do you guys want me to log?
I may be able to show up on race gas, if the barrel lasts that long!


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## DCGULL (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (rmatthews9)*

Yup! I'm doing the HKK mani dyno day too. I put the money down and hope for the best! I would rather try with back to back AND pay the money for it upfront. This way, I get the adventure of it, get to compare vag-com data logs before and after....Between us, we will have some pretty good data point for different cars.
Dave


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## rmatthews9 (Sep 14, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (DCGULL)*

AND we'll have numbers BEFORE ABD


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## DCGULL (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (rmatthews9)*

That alone will be priceless. The thread was on here for about 4 hours before it was pushed into the blackhole. Apparently, HKK got enough response in the New England regioanl forum and the 4 hours it was in the technical forum to get people intereested, mailing checks and signed up for a dyno day in Concord on October 22nd.
Pretty funny. This thread has been in existance longer than it will take to manufacture, install, dyno and post from a guy who is making them in a shop in Claremont, NH. Hmmm, pretty professional HKK- where's ABD on this again?
Dave


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## DiB (Nov 25, 2004)

Wow, I read this entire thread only to be crushed in the end with indifferent results. I'm curious about the possibility of low end loss and dyno results like everyone else. Big thanks to midnight18t for doing this too since abd is lagging.


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## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (DiB)*

like i said earlier...i am sorry i couldnt get full back to back...but if you think about it with a little common sense...you are going to have a little more lag...since there is a larger volume to fill with the intake many. And since the plenum is larger and the runners are larger also....it will make more power. It is common sense, i guess some people just dont want to see it for what it is.


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## kevinGTI02 (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

still no effing dyno?!?!


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## Bastard (Jul 3, 2003)

someone will post a dyno in two weeks.


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## rj11c (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (Bastard)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bastard* »_ two weeks.


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## hypnos (Aug 21, 2003)

ABD Official Dyno, hot off the presses:
|                ..........
|             ......    ..........
|        ......                ..............
|  ....
+50hp!!!!!


_Modified by hypnos at 5:17 PM 10-15-2005_


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## no-BUG-me (Jun 27, 2004)

*Re: (hypnos)*

Since this tread will never die, I'll post my thoughts.
This manifold may make the HP they claim on a car with a Big Turbo and every other upgrade possible. So when the manifold is the only bottleneck, it will open that up and gain the HP.
(Which is what they'll show)
On a stock turbo'd car, or even a BT car which still has some bottle necks, it won't make much difference.
Sort of like adding a 3" cat back to a car with the stock DP and stock chip.


----------



## Eldi (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (hypnos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hypnos* »_ABD Official Dyno, hot off the presses:
|                ..........
|             ......    ..........
|        ......                ..............
|  ....
+50hp!!!!!

_Modified by hypnos at 5:17 PM 10-15-2005_

Can you please post the web link to this info ?


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (hypnos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hypnos* »_ABD Official Dyno, hot off the presses:
|                ..........
|             ......    ..........
|        ......                ..............
|  ....
+50hp!!!!!

_Modified by hypnos at 5:17 PM 10-15-2005_
UNLESS i was standing there watching them to beileve it , i cant see it happening on ANY no matter what turbo used







.Apr's Motorsports manifold by itself , which has REAL engineering made about half of the gain of what was posted .







Bob.G


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

In my opinion, the only reason ABD has failed to actually produce a dyno graph is because they know the manifold didn't do anything in terms of power gains. And I'm willing to bet that it is the reason they "lost the dyno results in the first place. Almost every dyno owner I've come in contact with saves your dyno graphs on their hard drive for future comparison. Yes, without a doubt it will shift power to a different RPM range as we all know that design of the runners will affect this but if did anything in the horsepower department, wouldn't you think they would WANT to plaster the forums with dyno charts?
At least people like Forge Motorsport have the balls to post dyno graphs showing 1-2 hp gains by using their silicone intake hoses although we all know that if you dynoed your car back to back without changing anything, you will NEVER see the same results.


----------



## w00sh! (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: (ruso)*

OMG!!!
I can't believe this thread is still active! I forgot all about it.
For the record... dynos were requested from ABD on or before 7-15-05.


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## {:sylph:} (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: (w00sh!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *w00sh!* »_
For the record... dynos were requested from ABD on or before 7-15-05.



they must be to busy selling non-proven products to back up a silly thing like this.. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_Apr's Motorsports manifold by itself , which has REAL engineering made about half of the gain of what was posted .







Bob.G

someone did a dyno test of APR's manifold?


----------



## tremp (Apr 21, 2005)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*

I just wasted 20 minutes of my life, scanning through these pages in hopes of a concensus


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (tremp)*

See sig quote...








Ad


----------



## sonnyisarealboy (Dec 11, 2004)

*Re: (tremp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tremp* »_I just wasted 20 minutes of my life, scanning through these pages in hopes of a concensus 

ditto.


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (sonny18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sonny18t* »_
ditto.









same here


----------



## Brown E (Mar 19, 2001)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbotuner20V* »_
someone did a dyno test of APR's manifold?

Wait, theres an APR manifold?


----------



## rmatthews9 (Sep 14, 2003)

*Re: (Brown E)*

I will have numbers on the HKK manifold tomorrow








Then everyone can stop caring about what a PITA ABD is, and buy this manifold instead.


----------



## VDUBRACER187 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (rmatthews9)*

there are definately gains with this mani... my friend and i have the same cars (02 gti 1.8T 5spd awp) with the same mods (excluding the abd mani on my car) and my car feels *alot* faster... pulls much harder, especially up top. i would think that the gains are between 8-12 hp to the wheels. worth the $ imo...


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (VDUBRACER187)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBRACER187* »_ imo...

= crap w/o a dyno comparison
ABD sux, i'm gonna buy/make a real manifold


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbotuner20V* »_
= crap w/o a dyno comparison
ABD sux, i'm gonna buy/make a real manifold









I have more faith in DIY Custom Intake Manis anyway. I've seen some great designs here on the 'Tex. **coughcoughDonRcoughcough** http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## hkk735 (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: (rmatthews9)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rmatthews9* »_I will have numbers on the HKK manifold tomorrow








Then everyone can stop caring about what a PITA ABD is, and buy this manifold instead. 



actually its reallythe USRT manifold, but by hkk motorsports, for what its worth we saw a 10whp gain over the stock mani w/ this mani (version 1) we are in the middle of making some design changes-1 being actually shortening the runner length (this first round was about air distribution so we kept stock runner length) 2 is ditching the lehmann style plenum-might be good on a wrc car w/ a restrictor in the turbo, but i think its not feasible on a non restricted turbo


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (hkk735)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hkk735* »_
actually its reallythe USRT manifold, but by hkk motorsports, for what its worth we saw a 10whp gain over the stock mani w/ this mani (version 1) 

I see 10whp differences all the time on back to back dynos.... with nothing changed.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (ruso)*

Question for all of you who won't buy this manifold without a dyno sheet. How many of you bought intercoolers or other products without a dyno sheet from the manufacturers? This is a sincere question.


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_Question for all of you who won't buy this manifold without a dyno sheet. How many of you bought intercoolers or other products without a dyno sheet from the manufacturers? This is a sincere question.









*Backed into a corner, our hero inivid has no choice but to pick up the phone and order.*








Seriously, that is a good example and a lot of us fit into that category concerning parts in general.


----------



## hkk735 (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_
I see 10whp differences all the time on back to back dynos.... with nothing changed.

then you have some funky things happening i would guess- our baseline pulls varied 2-3whp w/ the stock mani....USRT mani pulls varied 2-3whp w/ a gain of 10whp overall


----------



## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_Question for all of you who won't buy this manifold without a dyno sheet. How many of you bought intercoolers or other products without a dyno sheet from the manufacturers? This is a sincere question.









Do intercoolers make power would be a better question? Not unless timing was being pulled in the first place. I didn't buy an FMIC for power, I bought it for consistency and future upgrades. Now a manifold is a different story.


----------



## carbide01 (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickK03Crap* »_
Do intercoolers make power would be a better question? Not unless timing was being pulled in the first place. I didn't buy an FMIC for power, I bought it for consistency and future upgrades. Now a manifold is a different story. 

2nd.


----------



## Lony (May 31, 2003)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*

I have the abd manifold on my desk and it is being ported and polished now. I would not recommend installing the manifold as it is delivered, the inside MUST be prepared - now I know why they charge extra 399$$$ for porting and polishing








Prepare for some before / after VAG-COM logs http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I am now waiting for more dremel tools because I killed all I have with the manifold, I think I can give you a feedback next week...


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickK03Crap* »_
Do intercoolers make power would be a better question? Not unless timing was being pulled in the first place. I didn't buy an FMIC for power, I bought it for consistency and future upgrades. Now a manifold is a different story. 

I would think that going from a stock SMIC to a large FMIC on a 400whp car would pick up power even on the first run. I have no opinion on the ABD manifold. I'm more curious to understand why some parts and/or companies are required to provide dyno results before a person will make a purchase, while other companies get to "slide".


----------



## V84LNCH (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_
I would think that going from a stock SMIC to a large FMIC on a 400whp car would pick up power even on the first run. I have no opinion on the ABD manifold. I'm more curious to understand why some parts and/or companies are required to provide dyno results before a person will make a purchase, while other companies get to "slide".









what companies get to slide?


----------



## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_I would think that going from a stock SMIC to a large FMIC on a 400whp car would pick up power even on the first run. I have no opinion on the ABD manifold. I'm more curious to understand why some parts and/or companies are required to provide dyno results before a person will make a purchase, while other companies get to "slide".









I think alot of this stems from the fact that claims were made by abd, they said they had dyno info etc then they pumped up the mani almost an entire year, then refuse to answer any questions or post any info and claimed that the dyno's got lost at giac


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (DubTron41)*

an intercooler can be proven by vag-com logs and/or dyno testing.
If an intercooler reduces IAT and allows a car to pull less timing, it's a good investment.
No such logs (that I know of) can be done to show the power curve/peak power of an intake manifold. The design of a manifold can vary so much compared to an intercooler. You don't want to buy something that has a crappy overall powerband w/ a short peak of 10whp.
apples to oranges imo.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_
I would think that going from a stock SMIC to a large FMIC on a 400whp car would pick up power even on the first run. I have no opinion on the ABD manifold. I'm more curious to understand why some parts and/or companies are required to provide dyno results before a person will make a purchase, while other companies get to "slide".









Mike its the same reason why you go to work and work very hard on making great products and work on peoples cars just like they where your own car.Once you build up a NAME people trust you and your products and opinions .I can say that ive bought a few different ABD products in the past and wasnt happy with there FIT and they didnt care when i talked to them about , So this time around i would be very tough on them , espec when they havnt shown there results of testing to there potential customers.







Bob.G


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (V84LNCH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V84LNCH* »_
what companies get to slide? 

You might not let any companies slide(and rightfully so







), but it seems like some other people do, if I'm reading this thread correctly.


----------



## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

Your point about a FMIC vs a stock SMIC on a 400hp car isn't really applicable. The stock SMIC could be a restriction at that point, not to mention the better cooling abilities of the FMIC. Like said, a simple intake temp or timing log would show the benefits there. What log that the average consumer could do would prove the benefits of the intake mani other than a dyno? Fitment would be an issue with a manifold, but not in the same sense as a FMIC where bumper modifications may or may not be needed. And lastly, Greddy doesn't claim any HP gains from their FMIC, unlike ABD. We all pass judgement as we see fit, but I bought my FMIC based on piping quality, general fitment, and cooling ability (which had been proven by others before I bought it). I know you weren't singling me out, but I'm answering with the facts I used to buy my FMIC. Already said, apples to oranges.


----------



## hkk735 (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*

thats what gets me- everyone wants dyno #'s, we test it, get the dyno numbers and to many people the numbers are no good, no inflated claims made here-we saw 10whp (actually i think it was 9.87whp EXACTLY ) this was on version 1, we saw room for improvement and are making some changes, i think we can DEFF get more power out of it, as i stated earlier-all we really did was improve the internal flow characteristics of the manifold, now we play w/ runner length....how many other companies do THAT?......i guess you cant please everybody here on the vortex
but maybe when people see how shiney it is they will change their minds


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (hkk735)*

I say stick with the stock intake manifold and spend the $500-$600 on something more useful like water/meth injection. I'm really starting to think that these aftermarket intake manifolds fall into the same category as cold air intakes, turbo inlet pipes, lower and upper intercoooler pipes, etc.


----------



## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (ruso)*

If you think there aren't gains to be had over the stock manifold, you're crazy. Now that doesn't mean it'll be cheap, a perfect fit, or for everyone.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickK03Crap* »_If you think there aren't gains to be had over the stock manifold, you're crazy. Now that doesn't mean it'll be cheap, a perfect fit, or for everyone.









I didn't say there aren't gains to be had over the stock manifold. I'm just saying there are many othr things you can do for that much money that could yeild even higher gains.


----------



## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*

There are other things to consider on FMIC's as well. Some might be highly efficient but cause a large pressure drop due to restriction. Others might flow very well but cool poorly. The piping and hoses used might be of poor quality and also cause efficincy/flow issues. And honestly, a good FMIC might not "make" more power, but when the intake air temps are still cool 10 seconds into that 1/4 mile pass you better belive you are making more power than if they are through the roof.
There are a number of isseues here and Tyrol doode brings up a good point. Some things are purchased just cause peeps say they are good, like the Forge 007 DV and the Forge/Samco TIP. I might have missed it, but where did the 007 produce more power and where did the TIP dyno higher on the same car on the same dyno on the same day.
As for the 007, I think it is a wast of time, energy and money. I hold 21PSI all day with my factory DV. The Forge/Samco TIP seemed like a good idea, and compared to the stock intake "straw," looked like it had the potential to flow more air so I bought one without dyno proof.
But there are Vag-Com test that we can do on the TIP and the intake mani. Simply log the mass air flow amd injector period. To make more power, with the same boost yadda yadda yadda, you need more air and fuel. If the TIP consistently flows more air than stock (requireing more fuel to not go lean), and the manifold does the same, then both *should* be making better power.
So Tyrol doode has a point, some people buy stuff just cause. Some companies get away with selling tripe. I really enjoy seeing people post real world logs *from the same car* when they upgrade parts. That is good info and I am starting to learn to trust good info, not the sales pitch.
Cheers
Dave


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickK03Crap* »_What log that the average consumer could do would prove the benefits of the intake mani other than a dyno? 

I think logging grams/sec (mass airflow) with an aftermarket manifold would reveal improvements IF it was making more power. That is an upstream measurement but I think what is going on at the manifold is going to affect how much air is being pulled in past the MAF, even if boost pressure is equal. If manifold is less restrictive, turbo efficiency should go up, so charge would be more dense/cooler. But this is all an educated guess.


----------



## Lony (May 31, 2003)

*Re: (groftja)*

I will be running some pre-logs, what logs should I run? I think of 002,115,120,20,22,23,31...?


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Lony)*

What ever you do, make sure you include Block 115. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Lony)*

115, 003, 026. More interested in knock voltage changes personally.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

I think the MAF values of before and after will be a good indication on increased air flow...







and timing pull of before and after.
g/sec, Timing pull before vs g/sec, Timing pull after will also indicate whether you would need a tweaked or re-tuned file better suited for intake mani.



_Modified by Don R at 9:49 AM 10-25-2005_


----------



## Lony (May 31, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_I think the MAF values of before and after will be a good indication on increased air flow...







and timing pull of before and after.
g/sec, Timing pull before vs g/sec, Timing pull after will also indicate whether you would need a tweaked or re-tuned file better suited for intake mani.
_Modified by Don R at 9:49 AM 10-25-2005_

Thx Don.
At least I will be the 1st to give some data. ABD should refund me if it shows some gains, and if not, too.


----------



## Dubhaus Tuning (Apr 11, 2002)

*Re: (Lony)*

Still no dyno sheets?!?!?!?!??! This is rediculous!! Unless I see some amazing results, I wouldn't buy the ABD manifold just on bad business practices made by the manufacturer. There is NO excuse for a lack this long without proven dyno sheets unless something is up with performance. Nothing for nothing, but it seems a bit shady of ABD.







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Dubhaus Tuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dubhaus Tuning* »_Still no dyno sheets?!?!?!?!??! This is rediculous!! Unless I see some amazing results, I wouldn't buy the ABD manifold just on bad business practices made by the manufacturer. There is NO excuse for a lack this long without proven dyno sheets unless something is up with performance. Nothing for nothing, but it seems a bit shady of ABD.







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Yeah, an intake manifold is such an itegral part of an engine. That's like releasing an intercooler or exhaust manifold and not releasing dyno graphs... wait a minute... that's half of the companies out there.


----------



## Dubhaus Tuning (Apr 11, 2002)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_Yeah, an intake manifold is such an itegral part of an engine. That's like releasing an intercooler or exhaust manifold and not releasing dyno graphs... wait a minute... that's half of the companies out there.









I understand some companies get away with not providing hard evidenence of their products, but when a company is asked specifically over and over to show some results by it's potential customers, I don't think it's too much to ask. ABD just so happen to have been caught on this one, and have to answer for their product. I'm sure they have read every post on this thread . I know EIP Rich has answered to some of EIP's products and when some people found service, products, etc. faulty, he still got on here and answered everyone's questions to the best of his knowledge, or at least from my understanding. I have respect for that and he has earned my business down the road for simple business courtesy.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Dubhaus Tuning)*


----------



## Scarab_Beetle (Dec 11, 2004)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_Yeah, an intake manifold is such an itegral part of an engine. That's like releasing an intercooler or exhaust manifold and not releasing dyno graphs... wait a minute... that's half of the companies out there.









I would agree, if ABD wasn't claiming tremendous gains in hp... simply put, don't make claims if you can't back it up... hell, if they could show me a flowbench readout, and it showed improvement, at least that would be something... but all they do is claim 12-22 hp or whatever it is they say without backing it up in any way, shape, or form... even after a now 13 page outcry for proof.... I've emailed them twice so far, no response... So i think its justified that their catching some flak for it.


----------



## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (Scarab_Beetle)*

I'm bumping this up to annoy many of you and to further prod ABD into stepping up to the plate. I guess they're too busy making their pretty Jetta for Street Tuner Challenge..... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Lony (May 31, 2003)

*Re: (dcomiskey)*

I didnt forget this here. 
Install is complete, logs done - pics and vag-com logs / charts to come... hopefully tomorrow... 

















_Modified by Lony at 9:33 PM 11-14-2005_


_Modified by Lony at 9:33 PM 11-14-2005_


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Lony)*

very cool... Thanks for collecting some data for us


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (Lony)*

The bling factor is awsome.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## sandiegobmx (Mar 10, 2004)

Wow, I didn't realize the ABD manifold moved the TB over to the battery box!


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (sandiegobmx)*

what?
.....
Lony, I would like to meet up sometime. Send me your cell through IM or call me
0176-20113277
Adrian


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (sandiegobmx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sandiegobmx* »_Wow, I didn't realize the ABD manifold moved the TB over to the battery box!









I cant believe you haven't seen that yet! tb in batt box mod=30hp! 
I think ABD offers a kit for that.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Lony (May 31, 2003)

*Re: (sandiegobmx)*

You made my day


----------



## aqua_blue_pearl_g60 (Dec 4, 2001)

*Re: (Lony)*

bump.. cant wait to see some info.. could be interesting...


----------



## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Lony)*

IM sent.


----------



## Eldi (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*

BUMP for more news


----------



## Lony (May 31, 2003)

*Re: (Eldi)*

The last hour I did the last log runs, hold on... all data to follow...


----------



## Eldi (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (Lony)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lony* »_The last hour I did the last log runs, hold on... all data to follow...


Does it at least "feel" as if it adds more power than the stock mani ?


----------



## Lony (May 31, 2003)

*Re: (Eldi)*

That is always hard to tell - I think I feel a quicker throttle response and better midrange power. Up top is equal - imho the K04 is at its end because I have a relatively agressive ecu software. Here is a little piccy







Logs following soon - promised.
Not a clean setup for now I must change and redo some hoses but it works...


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Lony)*

were there before and after logs somewhere?


----------



## Lony (May 31, 2003)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbotuner20V* »_were there before and after logs somewhere?

Yes, QuickK03Crap is working on them


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (Lony)*

Well, hurry up adam.......I wanna see!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (T-Boy)*








me toooooo


----------



## Hetzen (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_Well, hurry up adam.......I wanna see!!!!!!!!!!

x2


----------



## -KIX- (Nov 25, 2004)

*Re: intake*

I like this one better:


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

Adam, stop stroking it and get to work. 
send me the files if you need some help.


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_Adam, stop stroking it and get to work. 
send me the files if you need some help. 

he is still driving now - he should be at a computer in the next 20, I'll make sure to bug him to throw up those logs


----------



## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: intake (-KIX-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-KIX-* »_









now that is pure sex


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Lony)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lony* »_
Yes, QuickK03Crap is working on them









If he's busy, you can email them to me also.
[email protected]
I really wanna see how this thing did.


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbotuner20V* »_
If he's busy, you can email them to me also.
[email protected]
I really wanna see how this thing did.

i'd like too see this myself......


----------



## aqua_blue_pearl_g60 (Dec 4, 2001)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

I hope it wont be "two weeks" haha just kidding guys good work getting logs now lets see the results...


----------



## dansonepointeight (Jul 9, 2005)

im really curious to see the logs, and maybe before/after dynos?


----------



## El Romano Loco (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (dansonepointeight)*

lets see this **** already!!!
damn,
adrian


----------



## mycarisgrey (Aug 26, 2005)

incredible
i just dont understand how a company can just ignore its potential customers like this.....thats the whole point now isnt it? to maximize profits? good way to achieve that is to cater to your potential buyers, so if they ask for a piece of paper(or two) which the company DOES have on hand, the company should give them up......
with that said only one reasonable explanation can be concluded from all this stupidity and that is of course that the piece of paper(s) that all you want, does not support the claims made by the company.
in all honesty id do the same as what ABD is doing right now. their product is on back order and until they can safely record the revenues from all those orders, why would you want to jeopordize losing any of that money? im assuming that if your on back order and find out, the money you are spending is a total waste, you can easily back out and get your money back seeing that what you want isnt even produced yet. unless of course there is a no return policy even if what you bought isnt even produced.
oh well, i just thought id say something seeing that i spent some time reading this pointless thread. i hope something comes from all this and i dont care if what i said is true or not. just want to speak me mind cause im also really bored. thumbs up


----------



## Lony (May 31, 2003)

*Re: (mycarisgrey)*

Before we all go crazy... heres some data I was able to produce myself, I hope QuickK03Crap can make some overlay graphics.
Luftmasse = airflow from block 002
























These values are @ crank


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Lony)*

the increase in g/sec looks interesting...
what's your setup? 200+ g/sec is pretty impressive.
also, did you do any other logs?
could you send all the logs to [email protected]?


_Modified by turbotuner20V at 1:13 PM 11-17-2005_


----------



## Lony (May 31, 2003)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*

K04-001, samco inlet, greddy fmic, kinetic exhaust mani + abd intake mani, 2.5" DP+CB, stock maf,cat+injectors, custom programming
I think BT setups would gain more with this manifold, my little K04-001 is just producing hot air @redline . Knock voltages are nealy the same, I can make the charts later on today...


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Lony)*

i was just curious what boost was if you graphed it. Also, i could try to overlay them.
what blocks did u end up logging?


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*

please email me the logs so I can overlay them ... pm'ed you my email


----------



## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (chaugner)*

Just as we all suspected. Barely any real improvements over stock. Now we know why ABD has choisen to not release any relevant dynos. They should be ashamed of themselves.


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (dcomiskey)*

acutally based on the g/s its quite an improvment for an intake manifold. Also do not forget we are not seeing the benefits of more consistant timing due to possibly better distributed air flow.
I sent him an PM so we can overlay the data and put some % gains for specific rpm ranges on there as well.


----------



## Scarab_Beetle (Dec 11, 2004)

yeah the increase in airflow has my eyebrow raised, but remember that the VAG-vom torque/hp graphs are pretty much useless, at best their accuracy is questionable. I'd like to see timing, boost, and intake temp logs also. These really aren't a replacement for a back to back dyno comparison, but they're better than nothing. Thanks for taking the time Lony!


_Modified by Scarab_Beetle at 12:27 PM 11-17-2005_


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (dcomiskey)*

I did an overlay of these... 








The lighter lines are the ABD mani. Looks like it helps with TQ down low. That was the opposite I was expecting.. It was a bit difficult to get the rpm range to line up as the graphs were on a different scale...
Jon


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (dcomiskey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcomiskey* »_Just as we all suspected. Barely any real improvements over stock. Now we know why ABD has choisen to not release any relevant dynos. They should be ashamed of themselves. 

On the contrary.. They should have publicized this a while ago, if these graphs are correct, its showing 15nm of tq under 3000rpm, on the 1.8T that's a great thing as most bolt on parts are primarily showing power only on the top end.

Jon


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*


----------



## Lony (May 31, 2003)

*Re: (PerfCafe)*

I have sent chaugner & turbotuner20V all logs incl. 002,026,115,120 - I hope they can put together some better overlays.


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Lony)*

hey, i'm not sure how to handle the .RAR file type. My computer isn't compatible w/ opening them


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*

Its a type of zip file. you can download a decompressor for them for free. 
winrar 
http://www.rarlab.com/
logs logs logs - what happened to adam - logs logs logs logs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logs ABD sucks big llama bals logs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logslogs logs logs


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_logs ABD sucks big llama bals logs

LOL


----------



## rep ny (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*

Download winrar.
http://www.download.com/WinRAR...t-0-1 
edit: im to slow for these forums


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (rep ny)*


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (chaugner)*

Nice. I've just become a total ABD nut swinger. Not really, but I'm pleasantly surprised and never thought this thread would show results. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (groftja)*

yeah, once the germanz get together we produce results http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## PerfCafe (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (Lony)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lony* »_I have sent chaugner & turbotuner20V all logs incl. 002,026,115,120 - I hope they can put together some better overlays.









Hey, im using top of the line PS 3.0 !!


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (groftja)*

i've got some logs too.... just got 'em finished....








full throttle was applied at very different RPM's on this log.... so the boost curve may be skewed as a result of how the data was gathered.


































_Modified by turbotuner20V at 9:34 PM 11-17-2005_


----------



## rep ny (May 27, 2005)

i dont knwo ho to interpret dat ahtat good for this stuff but it loks like the abd created more lag


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbotuner20V* »_full throttle was applied at very different RPM's on this log.... so the boost curve may be skewed as a result of how the data was gathered.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (rep ny)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rep ny* »_i dont knwo ho to interpret dat ahtat good for this stuff but it loks like the abd created more lag


_Quote, originally posted by *turbotuner20v* »_full throttle was applied at very different RPM's on this log.... so the boost curve may be skewed as a result of how the data was gathered


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (18T_BT)*

excel


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (18T_BT)*

I'm sorry, but I still don't buy it. The gains with something like this are so minimum that logs, let alone a dyno vary so much that it's almost impossible to back up ABD's claims. 
To this day, I have yet to see back to back dyno runs OR logs that are consistent. I guess we can throw this on the same pile as CAIs, intercooler replacement hoses, etc.
However, I think there are larger gains to be had in a high horsepower setup. I'd like to see one of the 400+ hp guys try one of these out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Until then ABD, prove it!


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_I'm sorry, but I still don't buy it. The gains with something like this are so minimum that logs, let alone a dyno vary so much that it's almost impossible to back up ABD's claims. 
To this day, I have yet to see back to back dyno runs OR logs that are consistent. I guess we can throw this on the same pile as CAIs, intercooler replacement hoses, etc.
However, I think there are larger gains to be had in a high horsepower setup. I'd like to see one of the 400+ hp guys try one of these out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Until then ABD, prove it!

then why don't you buy one and dyno
it's not like this is everybody's goal in life to provide info for vortex
ABD obviously doesn't care enough to back up their claims, their clientel will buy this product regardless of real results


----------



## rep ny (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbotuner20V* »_
full throttle was applied at very different RPM's on this log.... so the boost curve may be skewed as a result of how the data was gathered.


dam i forgot you said that my bad


----------



## sandiegobmx (Mar 10, 2004)

Seems like one of the (well, mine) biggest concerns, knock, isn't fixed, but actually worse.


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (rep ny)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rep ny* »_
dam i forgot you said that my bad
















actually its those excel gnomes ... look at mine 2 posts above and you will see the correct boost graph


_Modified by chaugner at 2:28 PM 11-17-2005_


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (chaugner)*

Looks like it improved flow from 3000 and up. For those that do nothing till 3000 rpm anyways, this won't hurt a thing. goign wot at 1500 vs 1900 wont affect the curves btw. gearing sure will though. Can one of you log meisters do a delta plot. Graph after - before 
The knock voltages may be higher at high rpm because the little turbo is running out of steam up top faster. more lbs/hr of flow = more heat soak, = less compressor efficiency. I too would like to see this on a bigger turbo that wasn't maxed out. it would be nice to see ait temps of each run to make sure one was not heat soaked more than the other. 
It did not help the distribution of knock voltages. #2 was the worst before and after. It didn't seem to change this. There may be another reason for the high knock on this cars #2. Fuel, Compression, coolant flow etc etc.


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_
It did not help the distribution of knock voltages. #2 was the worst before and after. It didn't seem to change this. There may be another reason for the high knock on this cars #2. Fuel, Compression, coolant flow etc etc. 


yeap agree, I remember we discussed this a while back and it seems this did not solve the problem. I was looking at the raw voltage data in detail by hand and it did not seem to have helped








And yeah stupid excel and handling of axis etc. Thats why some of the logs seem incorrect on the overlay since its not using the proper rpm reference value. if you look at the 2 I had posted you can see more boost - and good call on the efficency and therefore more knock voltage.
My conclusion is that this intake manifold can definitly give an improvement over stock, most likly (assumed) more on a bigger more efficient turbo. If you were to compare flow limitations of turbo vs and manifold on this specific setup I would say its the turbo limiting air flow.
Now on a bigger turbo, that can indeed provide enough air flow, it should provide us some data as to how capable or incapable the stock mani is and how others compare to that.


_Modified by chaugner at 2:58 PM 11-17-2005_


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

Send me the log files. I am a level 10 excel geek master. [email protected]


----------



## flanders (Apr 5, 2001)

*Re: (enginerd)*

thanks for the graphs guys -- it's nice to finally get some data from this product http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## aqua_blue_pearl_g60 (Dec 4, 2001)

*Re: (chaugner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chaugner* »_









whats the improvment maybe 10 so about a 5% increase or am i reading this wrong? If its 5% thats a big number on higher horsepower cars, all other things being equal obviously..


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (enginerd)*

Logged again. Some good comparisons too. KO3 with chip + 2.5" turbo back. And STG III+ with N75 surging included in the boost plot. 
































There is an odd dip in the ABD power ~3400 - 3900 rpm for some reason. Perhaps some resonance in the intake at these frequencies? I think the boost just dips down here, perhaps some wastegate funky response. 
All in all looks like a pretty good test. ~5 -8% gain in g/s readings above 3000 rpm. Gain falls of up top, but so does the Turbo. Someone with a stg iii should test this hmmmm


_Modified by enginerd at 7:36 PM 11-17-2005_


----------



## aqua_blue_pearl_g60 (Dec 4, 2001)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_All in all looks like a pretty good test. ~5 -8% gain in g/s readings above 3000 rpm. Gain falls of up top, but so does the Turbo. Someone with a stg iii should test this hmmmm

_Modified by enginerd at 7:36 PM 11-17-2005_

5-8% in G/S equal 5-8% hp/tq if all other things could be equal?


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## SteveGTInyc (Nov 13, 2003)

I have the manifold on my ATP Stg 2 .. im going to be away for a week tho .. Maybe when i come back i can run some quick logs if you guys tell me specifically which to do.. Assuming my Mech. Engineering Professor's take it easy on me.. finals are coming up, so anything can happen.. no promises


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## dansonepointeight (Jul 9, 2005)

once i get my stg3+ put in, im definitely gonna get my hands on an ABD and do some logs, ill see if i can get some while i still have my ko3 too
but so far, doesnt look like its holding up to what ABD says...but it is showing some alright gains
i wanna see what itll do in high HP cars..


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## Turboface (Apr 28, 2004)

*Re: (dansonepointeight)*

ok simple question after reading all of these posts, does the manifold produce more power? yes or no


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## V84LNCH (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (Turboface)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Turboface* »_ok simple question after reading all of these posts, does the manifold produce more power? yes or no

rofl. 15 pages of flaming, and we still don't know. i was thinking about this thread the other day too. i know midnight1.8t ran the mani, and picked up 50whp with a 30r turbo. but...he also got a revised flash, and switched to a .63 a/r turbine housing from the .48...so there are a few variables in the equation to determine if, and how much hp he picked up with the mani.


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## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (V84LNCH)*

yea...who knows what it actually produced, but it did make a little more
i know the average up is about 20-30 whp from one housing to the next, but there is no way that that a reflash made up for the rest of the power...but i wish i could have gotten a set of back to back dyno's


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## lowNslo (Mar 26, 2001)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*

Soooooooooooooooooooooo what's the word on this? Yea, or nay? I would be running a KO3 turbo, with garret chip and an exhaust. Worth the $$ ??


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## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (lowNslo)*

save your money and go big turbo http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## lowNslo (Mar 26, 2001)

*Re: (Midnight_1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Midnight_1.8T* »_save your money and go big turbo http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## under boost (Apr 22, 2006)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (PerfCafe)*

figured it's been almost a year...still no dynos? what about truth's? idnt' abd claim to call for "the truth"?


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## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (under boost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *under boost* »_figured it's been almost a year...still no dynos? what about truth's? idnt' abd claim to call for "the truth"?























Doesn't USRT's cost about the same? I don't see how there is any competition between the two...
abd ftl


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## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_Doesn't USRT's cost about the same? I don't see how there is any competition between the two...
abd ftl

neither have really shown subsequent evidence imho


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## Too Cold NB1.8T (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (DubTron41)*

On my car the ABD intake manifold definitely made a substantial power/torque improvement mainly in the mid to upper end speed areas, I have noticed increased throttle response, faster engine revs, quicker turbo spool up, much better acceleration in the mid to top end power bands and an increase in gas mileage.
I did however have my ABD intake manifold extrude honed, gasket port matched and thermal coated though, I don't know how a bone stock ABD manifold would perform.


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## under boost (Apr 22, 2006)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Too Cold NB1.8T)*

thats the exact opposite of what others have said. but still no dynos to prove that this mani is worth more than an oem unit. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Macks04GLI (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (under boost)*

I don't care....it looks good!


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## votexgli (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Macks04GLI)*

you bumped that thread to say that


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## Macks04GLI (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (votexgli)*

yeah...sorry..... I'll go slap myself








Seriously, I have read this entire thread twice. I have a new ABD Mani sitting in a box looking at me. I'm trying to decide to put it in or sell it. This is a great discussion though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (votexgli)*

hey, how you doin? how is that mani workin out for ya?


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Macks04GLI)*

hopefully you installed it, if not, i hope you got a good price for it. i cant keep them in stock.


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Too Cold NB1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Too Cold NB1.8T* »_On my car the ABD intake manifold definitely made a substantial power/torque improvement mainly in the mid to upper end speed areas, I have noticed increased throttle response, faster engine revs, quicker turbo spool up, much better acceleration in the mid to top end power bands and an increase in gas mileage.
I did however have my ABD intake manifold extrude honed, gasket port matched and thermal coated though, I don't know how a bone stock ABD manifold would perform.

I have the ABD mani on my car with an E05b turbo! I had a similar response. Quicker spool and much better pull on the mid to high end of the spectrum!
I didn't dyno the car before and after this mod was installed but the ABD intake Mani fits really well and did add to the performance my 1.8t http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 










_Modified by sledge0001 at 12:33 PM 2-11-2009_


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## Macks04GLI (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** ([email protected])*

Its still in the box....but I'm going to install it


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Macks04GLI)*

right on!


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## Macks04GLI (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** ([email protected])*

How should I clean the inside of the intake before installing it?


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Macks04GLI)*

i would use a medium wire brush to loosen any dirt that may have setteled and then used compressed air to blow it all out. you may use a water hose, but make sure its 100% dry before installing.


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## Macks04GLI (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** ([email protected])*

That's what I wanted to know! Sweet! I'm installing this in a few weeks! Still bolting up my exhaust.


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## 8716valver (Mar 2, 2007)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Macks04GLI)*

Ok guys here is my experience with the mani:
I got a sick deal on it (350 NIB shipped) and thats pretty much the only reason I picked it up. However this thing was filled with cutting fluid residue and chips http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif. If i paid 600 for it I'd be pissed, that thing should've been prepped and ready for install. Actually I got a deal and was still pissed








Installation was a snap minus a slight modification to the lower support. Just to be safe I hit the flange with a stone, nice and flat. 
I must say it does look sweet with all the engine covers back in place.
As far as performance goes I'm unchipped and it still pulls way harder pretty much right to redline and holds ~10psi. I dont know about 20-30hp but I'm totally satisfied considering that previously the "tape dispenser" ran out of breath pretty damn early and pulled like a terd.
Sorry no logs or dyno. I plan to dyno before and after the chip in the very near future.
Mods: Short ram, 3"dp w/high flow cat, muffler delete, tip, dv, fmic, tb inlet hose, abd intake mani.....Soon to be unitronic chipped w/ a 2.5" cb










_Modified by 8716valver at 10:42 AM 2-17-2009_


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Macks04GLI)*

right on, let me know if you need anything else, ill be watching this thread.


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (8716valver)*

SWEET! im glad you like the mani! when we ship these, we usually blow them out the best we can, but sometimes some slag stays in there. always inspect an intake product of anykind before installation just to be safe.


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## Macks04GLI (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (8716valver)*

I might just splurge, get dyno'ed now and then install this baby and get dyno'ed after, post the charts an put this whole thing to bed.
Thoughts? Opinions?


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## 8716valver (Mar 2, 2007)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Macks04GLI)*

Sounds good to me.


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Macks04GLI)*

roll with it!


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## Macks04GLI (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (Macks04GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Macks04GLI* »_I might just splurge, get dyno'ed now and then install this baby and get dyno'ed after, post the charts an put this whole thing to bed.
Thoughts? Opinions?

forgot to add....Donations?


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## 1.8t67 (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (PerfCafe)*

any dynos after ~5 years?


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## GloryFreak (Feb 20, 2009)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** ([email protected])*

This goes to Adrian at ABD, can yall please post up a dynochart of before and after? Stock vs ABD Dyno numbers? I've been looking into this product since 2006 and the only I haven't bought one is because I would really like to see the dynochart to see were the powerband is really at.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (GloryFreak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GloryFreak* »_This goes to Adrian at ABD, can yall please post up a dynochart of before and after? Stock vs ABD Dyno numbers? I've been looking into this product since 2006 and the only I haven't bought one is because I would really like to see the dynochart to see were the powerband is really at. 

Issam has it in his manifold testing when he gets back on Uni's dyno here soon


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## GloryFreak (Feb 20, 2009)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (cincyTT)*

Thanks cincy, Hope for good things! Wonder if Issam has the Extruded Honed version or the stock version?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (GloryFreak)*

thats not going to make any huge difference if any.


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## GloryFreak (Feb 20, 2009)

*Re: ABD Racing Intake Manifold ***www.performance-cafe.com*** (cincyTT)*

Yea, but I would at least still like to know what Issam finds out about the manifold.


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

nate .. this mani only comes in small port right?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (DurTTy)*

From what i remember is its just a bit bigger than a small port but no where near a big port


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## GloryFreak (Feb 20, 2009)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

can't you have the manifold ported to large port cylinder head specs?


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

darn... i need something for my AEB head thats getting built.
maybe a transitional spacer?? 
the price on these manifolds is more than fair.


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: (GloryFreak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GloryFreak* »_can't you have the manifold ported to large port cylinder head specs?

is there enough material there to do so? 
i know the SEM mani is designed to be proted out to Large port.


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

um... isnt there a dyno on the very top of the 1st page.. or am i going crazy ???


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## 1.8t67 (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: (DurTTy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DurTTy* »_um... isnt there a dyno on the very top of the 1st page.. or am i going crazy ???


thats not a dyno. that is a hp estimator by vagcom. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

oh WAAAAAAAAACK !!!

has any1 tried to port match these mani's to an AEB head? 
curious


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