# 8v bolt on Turbo? worth it?



## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

would putting a turbo on the 8v engine be worth it? or not has anyone done it? how hard would do it be? im a poor college kid so im on a budget ha and sorry if this might be repetitive to other threads...


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

very worth it. if you're poor, you better do a lot of research and have a lot of time. it can be done on a budget.


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## dogyouare (Aug 10, 2009)

worth it. but on ebay the kits problem is usually with turbo. it hit or miss.


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

on ebay they sell a kit? how much are the kits could anyone provide me with a link? and like the usual cost if putting this type of kit together anyone have a estimate?


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

most of the components in the ebay turbo kit are cheap chinese junk. there are some decent parts, but for the most part, the stuff is cheap. if i were to buy an ebay turbo kit, the first thing i would do is throw the turbo away. or see if the seller will sell you the whole kit minus the turbo?


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

so they make a whole kit for the 8v? hmm what turbo should i get if i get the seller to sell me the kit with out the turbo?

now would this be like the turbo kit you guys are talking about? my 8v isnt the 2.0L though...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-8...rQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_4734wt_960


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

doesnt matter if its a 2.0 or not. the parts dont care if they are installed on a 1.4 L european engine, or a 2.2 L fire breathing stroker motor. all the parts that matter interchange.. this kit is NOT SPECIFICALLY FOR THE 2.0 ONLY. i repeat, NOT 2.0 SPECIFIC.. 

and its hard to say what turbo you should use, what do you want it to be used for? drag track? daily driver? want tons of low end with no turbo lag? or not much low end and plenty of lag, but lots of top end boost and power?


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

how hard would installing this kit be pretty easy to do on the weekend? and i just want somthing for a daily driver


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

is the turbo that comes with that kit really that horrible ? if i use it what might happen?


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

counter-flow motors with turbos are very space restricted Google callaway turbo for info 

Another factor is if you currently have mech injection or digi? 

And what compression is the bottom end being used?


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

its a 92 so its digi and idk bottem end compression thing lol


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## dogyouare (Aug 10, 2009)

dude do some research.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

92 digi would more than likely be 10-1 so you would also need to lower your compression if you want more than 5-6 pounds of boost and upgrade your engine management. :banghead:


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

so i will have to get it chipped then if i do decided to go this route? what sorta chip would be needed?


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

has anyone even done this setup though on there car?


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

Digifant2 is not boost friendly. Neither is california digifant1 if thats what you have. Might be easier to convert cali digi1 to g60 digi1 though. 

Otherwise youd be messing with an rrfpr, bigger injectors, and will need to fiddle with your afm/fiddle with a bmw afm. Lots of trial and error unless you talk to someone whos gone that route and there arent many.

How much power are you looking to make? An aba bottom end, close ratio granny, and some boltons are your best bet.


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

honestly im just looking for alittle bit more power not trying to be the fastest car out there but just somthing thatll make my daily driver a bit more fun to drive


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

If you're comfortable doing an engine swap, that'd be your best bet. An ABA bottom end, close ratio tranny, performance camshaft, and performance exhaust should make it a fun car.


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

hmm how much would it cost to do all that stuff?


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

To answer your Q of does anyone turbo there counter-flow 1.8 digi most do not. The cost to do it is way more that the hp gained by it. in other words tour money is spent better on other things like motor swap.

as far as chipping your current brain to run correctly will also not happen i meant you will need to upgrade to g60 digi 1 or SEMS both not cost effective for what you want.

if you are a competent in your skills as a mechanic and can do wiring do a motor swap start looking around for complete wrecked cars 93 and up jetta's and gti's so you get everything you need for the swap I hear 300-700$ for complete cars depending on the condition/mileage stuff like that.

I would expect lots of :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

hah hmm okay thank you any suggestions to were to look for wrecked car in cali like 93 and up gti and jettas?


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

craigslist, ebay, anything like that. just open your eyes and look..


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

so none of you guys would suggest me just trying to do bolt on turbo i mean even if i just run it at 5 or 6 psi ? probably better off just trying to do a engine swap like swaping in a vr6 or somthing?


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## dogyouare (Aug 10, 2009)

yes unless ur going to build ur 8v


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

okay and what would you guys think would be a good swap vr6 1.8t or 2.0L i want something that'll be fun daily driver that i can swap with some ease


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

do it, turbo the stock engine!

but, im telling you that shortly after you turbo it, you will have to replace the engine, or alteast the pistons. if you throw a turbo at that engine the way it is, its going to lean out and burn down. simple as that.

trying to tell a newb all the pros and cons of a turbo on an 8v is like talking to a brick wall. turbos dont just trip while walking and simply fall onto your 8v.. its ALOT OF WORK... 

swap in a 2.0 aba bottom end, use your head, maybe port it, put a small sport cam in it, and some headers, with a nice intake setup. it will blow you away how much more power you get, for how much money you dont have to spend. and its SOO MUCH EASIER than bolting on a turbo and having to tune everything to run nice.

another nice thing about the ABA, they are cheap, plentiful, and almost a bolt in swap. unless you want to use the ABA head and engine management, then its slightly more in depth. im just getting ready to swap an ABA bottom end into my 85 GTI. the original engine finally blew a head gasket after 300k+ miles. so rather than rebuild that, im dropping in a new heart.


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

sorry im so new with all this just trying to learn.. now from what ive read putting in a 2.0 aba bottom end it will just swap with the bottom end i have simple as that? or is there other things im not aware of involved? 

and whats a going price for just a 2.0 aba bottom end?


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## dogyouare (Aug 10, 2009)

yes it is just a normal swap as if ur going to change ur bottom end. go to ur local yeard and ask how much.


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

i paid $75 for my aba w/ trans from my local junk yard. 

for the install, you will either have to deal with the block breather, or make block off plates. i made block off plates. plate was mae from a chunk of 1/4" aluminum. the other 2 holes you have to plug up can be taken care of with 40mm soft plugs. another thing you need to do is make the ABA dizzy have 4 windows in the rotor, instead of 1. if you need any more advise, pm me if you want.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

do the whole xflow swap this sets you up to do the easier turbo application after you get bored of the 2.slow

you have a 92 with a ce2 fuse block keep your trans find a full motor and wiring preferably a obd1 93-96 gti jetta engine most had oil squirters and dual valve springs factory. 

The wiring is 90% plug and play look in hybrid engine forum at xflow swaps:thumbup:


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

only the forged engines have oil squirters...

and the X-flow head does not flow as good as the counterflow head. 

and from what ive read, NO 2.0 engines have good valve springs. anywhere you see cams, you always see a side note when installing in ABA engines, please order our special valve springs also, to avoid coil bind. but that may have been just certain years. im only about 75% sure on this one.

why does everyone make such a fuss about turboing a counterflow? ive got a turbo and a gas intake manifold hanging off the back of my 1.6 diesel. theres plenty of room, and made for simple boost plumbing.

the mini swap is way easier, you dont have to CHANGE EVERYTHING!


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

hmm what if i just do a full 2.0 ABA swap? and the turbo that ha ive been doing some reading on the whole swap and seems like full aba swap pretty simple and cheap to do and can turbo it down the road seems to be pretty fast? anyone wanna shed any light on this?


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

90% of obd 1 93-96 were forged with dual valve springs and oil squirters TT and autotech site also says the same thing when buying a cam from them.

i read the flow chart and x-flow is 160 cfm counterflow is 130 cfm where did you get the #'s that says counterflow is better?

I'm not against turbocharging a counter-flow I would like to see more but you have to understand the money vs hp and time spent might not be worth it.:beer:


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

the x flow and counter flow confuse me hah now is it just different cylidner head or are we talking about the 2.0 motor right so some are counterflow while others are x flow? sorry im new at all this just trying to make clear of the 2


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

most counter-flow heads came on 1.8-1.7-1.6 lt jetta/gti/corrado/fox 92 and under and its pertained to the head alone 
counter-flow is in reference to the exhaust manifold and intake manifold both coming off the back of the head. making more like a Z for flow


most xflow heads came on 93 up gti/jetta/passat witch also came with the popular aba 2.0

X-flow is in reference to the exhaust manifold off the back and intake from the front making a X for flow

hopw this helps


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

hmm i understand all that but there are some 2.0 motor that are counter flow is that what your saying? or am i still not clear or are you saying all 2.0 motors are x flow? i dont understand what doing the x flow swap means ha


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

is the whole x flow swap refering to get the whole 2.0 motor dont just do a 1.8 with 2.0 bottom end mini aba swap? or am i wrong?


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

right, aba head is crossflow. You'll just be using the aba block, and using your mk2 counterflow head.


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

okay but using the whole 2.0 motor is better then just using the 2.0 block with the 1.8 head? because then it would just be counter flow so crossflow is better? or are there really that much different? because ive heard 2 different storys which would be better to turbo? cuz i know i want to do a turbo in my mk2 some time


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

full X-flow 2.0 aba with obd1 from A 93-96 gti/jetta/passat 

people make bolt turbo kits with minimum fabrication and customizing 

http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/products/2394/MK3_2_0_Turbo_Kit

http://www.kineticmotorsport.com/catalog/MKIII_2_0L-98-1.html


read through this forum for cfm flow charts and some pics

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3972384-Naturally-Aspirated-Top-1-4-Mile-List.


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

Glegor said:


> only the forged engines have oil squirters...


Stuck my head up my non forged Mexican model and saw oil squirters yo.

Just go buy a aba 2.0 block, use your digi head and put it all together....This whole turbo rout is a road that isn't worth traveling. And if you don't listen to these guys, you will end up like me...One guy on here can attest to that


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

haha so a full 2.0 aba swap with a turbo kit on it isnt worth it? a 2.0 aba mini swap better?


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## ryandZA (Jun 4, 2007)

8V counter flow turbo:









Dyno figures:









Worth it? Hell yes

Stock internals bar the ARP conrod bolts, BBM head spacer, 14,5PSI boost, 52lb injectos, standalone management.


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

dude sick! hah i like seeing that! how much did that setup cost you?


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## ryandZA (Jun 4, 2007)

tigertim said:


> dude sick! hah i like seeing that! how much did that setup cost you?


Thanks for the compliment:beer:
All in, it worked out to roughly US$2000-00 if current exhange rate of ZAR7-64 is used.
All DIY style


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## superl8 (Dec 31, 2002)

ryandZA said:


> All DIY style


This is the critical part. *DIY* There is no other way to do it. NO KITS do this like you're hoping. And you'd need to budget some serious time as well. Like a couple months - never mind the research and parts sourcing. This is a huge job. Do some research - then do a cam and exhaust like the rest of us and dream about a turbo.

Not to rain on your parade but there are some serious hurdles to overcome to turbo your car. The engine management foremost among them. Basically you'll be cobbling together a host of parts of many different cars then trying to tune it properly without a meltdown - This is seriously advanced stuff. Good luck.


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## ryandZA (Jun 4, 2007)

Full specs of the motor in the pic I posted above:

2 litre 8 valve (ADY code).
1.8 litre head (flowed and inlet manifold port matched to head).
OEM G60 cam.
ARP conrod bolts.
BBM spacer plate.
All other internals are stock.
Motor freshened up with new rings, bearings, gaskets etc.
52lb (525cc) Delphi injectors.
Cast turbo manifold.
T3/T4 turbo (AR.50 compressor housing, AR.63 turbine housing).
DIY'd downpipe using 63mm tubing as no off-the-shelf DP's are available for the Mk2 here in South Africa.
DIY'd boost pipes.
El cheapo FMIC.
Gotech MFI standalone management.
I did 99% of the work myself and the only two bits I did not do eas welding up the DP (I just tacked it) and the final tuning of the management.

Power - 240,5Hp (179,3kW) and 301Nm (222lbft)

It was not an easy task as some creative planning had to be done because of the counterflow head, but in the end (2 months to plan, source and complete), it was very well worth it.

A X-flow head would have made things much easier.


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

now can i build a motor like that in like baby steps cuz i dont have like 2k i can just spend on a motor... what would you guys suggest? id like to have the outcome be similar to his motor that be sick


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## superl8 (Dec 31, 2002)

tigertim said:


> now can i build a motor like that in like baby steps cuz i dont have like 2k i can just spend on a motor... what would you guys suggest? id like to have the outcome be similar to his motor that be sick


I don't know. Can you? This is the point. The car in that picture is built by someone very, very dedicated to his Mk2. Judging by the questions you're asking I think you should settle for something a lot more realistic - Cam and exhaust. Maybe a 2L bottom end. Can you even perform any of these modifications yourself? If not the bill for something like buddy above has will run you 4 or 5 maybe 6 grand plus... easily. Look into the ABA swap as mentioned above - or a 16v on digi - far more realistic.


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

tigertim said:


> now can i build a motor like that in like baby steps cuz i dont have like 2k i can just spend on a motor... what would you guys suggest? id like to have the outcome be similar to his motor that be sick


No you can't....Just try swapping in the ABA 8v head.


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

all you guys haters lol yeah i think i will start off with the mini swap see where it goes from there what kind of cams be good like who sells some nice ones


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

Lol no we aint 
If you try and turbo ur car you'll more then likely ruin it. 

Once you get the swap in you can move from there!


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

hah i know i think thats what ill do so i think 2.0 block and then ill get a cam


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## turdhunter (May 9, 2010)

those $150 chinese turbo's are great when building on a budget. rebuild kits are exactly the same for garret turbos of the same ar. we use them at our shop on budget builds and they have lasted for years on cars with 250hp. just make sure that everything on them is torqued to spec. thats usually the reason why they blow up.


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

turdhunter said:


> those $150 chinese turbo's are great when building on a budget. rebuild kits are exactly the same for garret turbos of the same ar. we use them at our shop on budget builds and they have lasted for years on cars with 250hp. just make sure that everything on them is torqued to spec. thats usually the reason why they blow up.


I wouldnt trust anybody from Oregon


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## turdhunter (May 9, 2010)

JoggerNot said:


> I wouldnt trust anybody from Oregon


its not that i recomend them, but if your lacking on funds its definately an option.

you would be better off buying a used ihi, and its usually cheaper.

i would never run one on any of my cars


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

turdhunter said:


> its not that i recomend them, but if your lacking on funds its definately an option.
> 
> you would be better off buying a used ihi, and its usually cheaper.
> 
> i would never run one on any of my cars


Haha buddy I'm in Oregon to.

Exactly.. But in the long run, it would be cheaper and simpler to do it right :>


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## turdhunter (May 9, 2010)

exactly. 

unfortunately im ditching my aba project and building the 1.6.....aba for sale


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

ill take the 2.0 block  ship me it and ill buy right now haha


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

turdhunter said:


> exactly.
> 
> unfortunately im ditching my aba project and building the 1.6.....aba for sale


what was your aba project if you dont mind me asking?


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## Brunke_Stunkelmyer (Sep 21, 2009)

I know this thread already went over this but, when people buy a turbo kit off of ebay they expect everything to be ready to go perfect. If you do end up buying an ebay kit you should expect to tear the turbo down, go through, and closely inspect it. There is a guy out here in Seattle you has gone through 2 ebay turbos in a 4 year period, I say 2 because hey upgraded from his original and got a bigger ebay turbo. He runs 20 psi daily driven on his home built megasquirt miata. 
Another thing you should watch out for is the manifold from an ebay turbo kit, They have thin flanges that will warp over time. The manifolds are known to crack aswell. 
In my opinion you would be better off doing your own build, with a small used turbo.

:beer::beer:


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

thanks man ill keep that in mind if i ever do go a turbo route ha so i have a question. now if i do a full 2.0 ABA swap could i get a ebay turbo kit and run it pretty easyly with the 2.0 setup? i mean i know how i need engine management and stuff but the turbo would run alot better then it would on my 8v 1.8 right...


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## superl8 (Dec 31, 2002)

opcorn:


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

tigertim said:


> thanks man ill keep that in mind if i ever do go a turbo route ha so i have a question. now if i do a full 2.0 ABA swap could i get a ebay turbo kit and run it pretty easyly with the 2.0 setup? i mean i know how i need engine management and stuff but the turbo would run alot better then it would on my 8v 1.8 right...


its not gonna be VERY much more powerful on the 2.0/ and ive heard alot of very knowledgeable people tell me that the counterflow (intake and exhaust on the back) heads flow better than the cross flows do, and its just because the angles of the actual intake ports are not at such a right angle like a cross flow head. the counterflow head has more of a sweeping curve to the intake port, where as the cross flow head has a very sharp 90* turn right before the valve..

take both heads, port them exactly the same. the counterflow head will flow better.

and with the counterflow, you dont have to swap out the whole engine operating system


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

Want some extra power??....Look in here...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4628897-Porting-the-8v-head.....


And if u want a true bolt in turbo kit for ur mk2 look around for a used complete Callaway kit...But get ready to empty ur pockets....

Just my 2 cents and this coming from a person who built there own turbo kit when i was 18 after i was told it could not be done...read all the threads on turboing as u can before doing or buying anything....It can certainly be done, but the question is do u have the skills,tools, knowledge to do it or money to pay to have it done....


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## Slave2theBunny (Mar 16, 2005)

I have to say it's worth it, I've turboed my JH (83gti) with a saab t-3 turbo, megasquirt, stock internals only upgrades are ARP headstuds, and a mystery Neuspeed N/A cam (was already on the engine when I got it). You have to go with a standalone if you hope to make any power and some sort of timing retard system, I went with a MSD system with boost retard. One good piece of advice though, invest in a good headgasket (don't ask how I know) and recheck your torque on the headstuds after a couple of heat cycles.


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## roomsupervisor (Mar 12, 2007)

This thread is fail (minus the two real turbo's)


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## tigertim (Feb 13, 2010)

I


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## schweatyballs (Nov 20, 2009)

tigertim said:


> I


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Slave2theBunny said:


> I have to say it's worth it, I've turboed my JH (83gti) with a saab t-3 turbo, megasquirt, stock internals only upgrades are ARP headstuds, and a mystery Neuspeed N/A cam (was already on the engine when I got it). You have to go with a standalone if you hope to make any power and some sort of timing retard system, I went with a MSD system with boost retard. One good piece of advice though, invest in a good headgasket (don't ask how I know) and recheck your torque on the headstuds after a couple of heat cycles.


 I agree with "its worth it", but not the "You have to go with a standalone if you hope to make any power" comment.

You can make power with just about any setup, from a draw through or blow carb (s) & CIS.

It all comes down to the tuner!

You could have full blown MoTeC EFI, but if the tuner is crap, your car will not make power or even worse, blow up!


I just don't get why people think you need EFI to make power! 

You don't!!!! 

There are tuners making 600+hp using CIS on 930 turbos

Have a look here under *Projects* & *930 CIS Monster*


What about the bloke who made 400+hp with an 8VT CIS way back in the early 90's & ran 11's & made 300+hp in the early 80's!!! running low 13's @ over 120mph!


Your making 190+hp with EFI. I'm making roughly the same, if not alittle bit more with CIS @ 16-18psi. Still both using a boost retard MSD ignition. Probably the same Saab T3 turbo too.

My engine is a stock 300+k unopened engine (incl. the headgasket) apart from a 270 Autotech cam & valve springs.

Its done 25+K on the setup now & is nothing but smooth sailing. Smooth power delivery, good fuel consumption (best was 440km per 35L. Average is 410km per 35L) & has run a best of [email protected] with some wheel spin & slipping clutch.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

This was over 15 yrs ago but i did my setup completely from JY parts....stock 1.8 motor and head. changed out the 10:1 pistons with 8:1 pistons from a corrado. Used the audi 5000T exhaust mani and turbo(k26).Later switched to a K27 from a 944 porsche. Cut mani at #4 exhaust and moved over and welded #5 to retain the external wastegate. Custom fab down pipe and dump pipe for wastegate for that nice screaming sound on boost...:laugh:. used different pipes from any turbo cars that i could find for the plumbing. Mitsubishi Starion FM intercooler. Isuzu impulse turbo BOV. And i cant remember if the intake bowl boot was from a volvo or a saab that ran CIS. Ran the extra fuel through the cold start injecor line mated to a 280z injector pre TB that was controlled. with a boost switch. Had a Jacobs electronics box and coil for ignition. Ran it at 15psi for my D/D and 22psi at the track. It ran mid 13's on street tires...Tuned it with a friends exhaust analyzer at his shop for 22psi so it ran rich most of the time on 15psi but as long as u didnt let it boost u would be fine as a D/D..... Mind u during this time i had no forums like Vortex or any VW shops willing to help me out...Most VW shops wouldnt even look at it once it was running to help tune it:thumbdown: SO YES ITS COMPLETELY POSSIBLE AND YOU DONT HAVE TO SPEND $3000.00 DOING IT. I think in the end i spent maybe $1000.00 and thats only cuz i rebuilt that k27.....


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## Slave2theBunny (Mar 16, 2005)

Nice numbers, but how often is it that you find a perfectly working CIS system? I know it's hard to find parts(here in canada at least) and a tuner or mechanic that stills remembers how CIS works, I drove my 81 for years with CIS, and an 83 I also owned, but for simplicity you can't beat EFI, but then again I guess it depends on who's point of view, I built my own megasquirt so I'm at ease with EFI, 

The dyno pull I posted was at 13psi barely peaking at 14 1/2psi, my wastegate spring is just not stiff enough, I would love to see what power I'll make at 15 or 18 psi like you have done, I'm in the midst of building up a PG block, I'll repost after that block is in and dynotuned. I've also run 14.07 with a trap speed of 104.155mph, I also have another run at a flat 14 with 106 trap, but I can't find that time slip, also with severe wheelspin 1st, 2nd, and a chirping 3rd. I also really suck at dragracing and the tranny I installed was never for dragracing, I took out the 2H and put in an ACN. 



John Milner said:


> I agree with "its worth it", but not the "You have to go with a standalone if you hope to make any power" comment.
> 
> You can make power with just about any setup, from a draw through or blow carb (s) & CIS.
> 
> ...


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

If anybody is selling a volvo or saab cis system please IM me btw ^_^


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

JoggerNot said:


> If anybody is selling a volvo or saab cis system please IM me btw ^_^


 Im going to the JY monday so if i see anything ill pick it up....:thumbup:


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

TheMajic86GTI said:


> Im going to the JY monday so if i see anything ill pick it up....:thumbup:


 Thank ya very much sir


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