# who here has actually broke a rod?



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

Please post here if youve broken a rod.......
if it has happened to you (or someone you know personally), how did it happen?
how much HP/boost were you making? what turbo? what were you revving the motor to?
hopefully this can help people get an understanding of the limits of our motors with a stock bottom end...



_Modified by BIGGEE TALLS at 12:51 PM 4-7-2009_


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## joe thielen (May 9, 2008)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (BIGGEE TALLS)*

23 psi, 28r, 100 shot,104 oct programming, 110 in the tank. stock motor.


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## GTIracing88 (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (joe thielen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joe thielen* »_23 psi, 28r, 100 shot,104 oct programming, 110 in the tank. stock motor. 

hahahah that will do it!!! What the hell were you thinking??


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## rodney_dubs (Mar 2, 2008)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (GTIracing88)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIracing88* »_
hahahah that will do it!!! What the hell were you thinking??

















*I AM INVINCIBLE!!!!*


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## loxxrider (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (rodney_dubs)*

i know its not what u were looking for, but hydrolock!!!!


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## CHRIS_GSXR1K (Sep 19, 2007)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (rodney_dubs)*

Does a non dub count in this survey, cause I very efficiently ventilated the block of my 4.0 jeep when the oil pressure dropped for to long and threw a rod through the block


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## UntouchableGTI (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (BIGGEE TALLS)*

Stock block, giacx+, 3 in tb, intake, 75shot, was making 297whp @ 308 tq















no pix of the rod, but of the carnage.


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## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (UntouchableGTI)*









not VW but how does this look. 5.0 ford #1 rod, broke during a launch in 1st gear, timing set fell off, 2 rods through the front of the block, pistons werent found.


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## loxxrider (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (boosted b5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boosted b5* »_








not VW but how does this look. 5.0 ford #1 rod, broke during a launch in 1st gear, timing set fell off, 2 rods through the front of the block, pistons werent found.

wow, that is nasty!!!!
I am trying to think of a good way to use mine as a decoration


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## catsman72 (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (loxxrider)*

hang that bitch from you rearview


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (loxxrider)*

so far the 2 snapped ones were from using nitrous. what were you doing when they snapped? dyno? track? were the revs super high?
how did that rod bend in that last pic?!!!!


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## FrankiEBoneZ (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (BIGGEE TALLS)*

2002, I broke a rod with like 345whp. I ran up to 388whp, was on a GT30R... back before there was all sorts of GT30Rs... Probably most simliar to the GT3071. Revving to like 7500rpm on 440cc injectors, a diode, and GIAC X+ file.... OOOOLD School hahaha!
Anyway, yea I broke a rod, and punched a hole in the block.
The reason you dont see people braking stuff that much these days, is because when someone wants to push the motor a bit, they throw in rods cause you can doit pretty damn cheap. And they dont push the motor beyond 350whp on stock rods, if that at all.
Knowledge is power lol.


_Modified by FrankiEBoneZ at 12:08 AM 7-28-2008_


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## joe thielen (May 9, 2008)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_so far the 2 snapped ones were from using nitrous. what were you doing when they snapped? dyno? track? were the revs super high?
how did that rod bend in that last pic?!!!!









racing, pushing the envelope, on pace for a low 11 on a stock motor car about 3 years ago at least now.


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## JWJET1 (May 1, 2002)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (FrankiEBoneZ)*

... I have a good one, just dnt wanna lose this thread.
to be continued.


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## Dubmekanik (Apr 6, 2002)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (J-86)*

I have two blocks at the shop with air conditioning...







Both apr stage 3 kits. Frankie is right about why not many break rods anymore..


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## fredfromnewyork (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (BIGGEE TALLS)*

Snapped and threw it through the block- APR stage 3 @ 6500 RPM on stock ATC block 120k miles (80K with BT)


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## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (fredfromnewyork)*

like frankie said, the smart people in the group learn from the BT/ high HP pioneers that destroyed blocks before anyone had a rough idea of what the stock block will do.


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## UntouchableGTI (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_so far the 2 snapped ones were from using nitrous. what were you doing when they snapped? dyno? track? were the revs super high?
how did that rod bend in that last pic?!!!!









mine snapped just normal driving, hadent sprayed in a few weeks, wasnt high in rpms.


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## olivier_vw (Jan 14, 2007)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (UntouchableGTI)*

I did last year. Swapped a AWP with 75k miles on it with most of the bolt on. Broke on the highway, in 5th gear at medium RPM.
The rod.








The car


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## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (olivier_vw)*

(bites nails),going strong here ,ATC motor,stock block,daily 350+whp,300+tq.,dynoed 401 whp.....30k BT..........(bites nails).....haha. Running 100+ octane daily however,that helps.


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (VWAUDITEK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITEK* »_ Running 100+ octane daily however,that helps.









No it doesn't, it'll get rid of most of if not all of timing pull, which will increase power if anything. lol


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (VWAUDITEK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITEK* »_stock block, dynoed 401 whp.









so its just a matter of time? (thats not funny is it?







)


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## sandiegobmx (Mar 10, 2004)

Highest dyno of 347whp. Had about 40k miles on the engine, 78k total. GT28RS most of the life; 3071 on it for about 1k when it blew.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (sandiegobmx)*

I broke a crank, but that wasnt from power


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (BIGGEE TALLS)*

bump. this is for a school project.


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## UntouchableGTI (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_I broke a crank, but that wasnt from power









id like to hear this


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (UntouchableGTI)*

I will just say severe lack of oil


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## UntouchableGTI (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_I will just say severe lack of oil









thats what I thought, ouch


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (UntouchableGTI)*

No kidding, thats why i went with a 2.0


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## jc_bb (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (olivier_vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *olivier_vw* »_I did last year. Swapped a AWP with 75k miles on it with most of the bolt on. Broke on the highway, in 5th gear at medium RPM.
The rod.










jesus! did you go back and pick that up with a dustpan and brush!?


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## 03redgti (Feb 18, 2006)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (jc_bb)*









I guess you can call that broken...


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (03redgti)*

^^^what happened there?^^^^^


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## RvGrnGTI (Apr 13, 2005)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (03redgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *03redgti* »_








I guess you can call that broken...









oh kane i knew i would find you in this thread!















*KNOCKS ON WOOD*


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## Custom158 (Sep 4, 2006)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (UntouchableGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UntouchableGTI* »_Stock block, giacx+, 3 in tb, intake, 75shot, was making 297whp @ 308 tq















no pix of the rod, but of the carnage.









speaking of blowing a piston out of the block, give this person a hand... literally
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SywOpUQbWog


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## WhatsOEM (Jul 28, 2008)

**** that. lol. **** that.


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## 03redgti (Feb 18, 2006)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (RvGrnGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RvGrnGTI* »_
oh kane i knew i would find you in this thread!















*KNOCKS ON WOOD*

hahhaa shut up jay i'm running scats..thats a rod i found at vidals shop lol!


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## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (03redgti)*

My posting that higher octane helps with rod life has *merit* IMO...since we all know pre-ignition/knock/detonation,etc. all create huge spikes in cylinder pressure with colliding flame fronts,etc from uncontrolled combustion, and these huge pressure spikes contribute greatly to the stress on the rod as it comes to TDC,this is why rods bend/break,due to high cylinder combustion pressure .Whether this is caused by small turbos/high tq. spike or running low octane gas and experiencing pre-ignition.
I can only post from experience of having my own car running 30K + miles on stock rods and pushing a GT2871R to 30 + psi with 100+ octane then a 3071R to 30+psi 100+ octane on stock rods and the engine still purrs like a kitten.
Since I run the same octane fuel daily,I have boost set at 27 psi daily driven on a 3071R and has not missed a beat.
Higher octane=controlled combustion 




_Modified by VWAUDITEK at 1:25 PM 7-30-2008_


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (VWAUDITEK)*

^^^^^^^^^^and this is with stock rods?!!!!!!^^^^^^^


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## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (BIGGEE TALLS)*

Yes sir! i have the early ATC engine with 16V PL rods in there.The car dynoed 401whp/348 tq. but dropped off atthe end due to needing a fpr adjustment.If I had a little bit higher fuel pressure it would have kept climbing to 415+whp.....going back when I have time and shoot for 401+ next time.


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## green02turbo (May 13, 2008)

IMO, Rods bend and break because of excesive peak cylinder pressure at lower RPM's. Detonation is your enemy. IF your careful with your timing at lower RPMs- it limits peak BTDC cylinder pressure and doesn't stress the rods. So, run a big turbo with stock rods. Just keep the timing conservative at lower RPMs.


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## loxxrider (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (green02turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *green02turbo* »_IMO, Rods bend and break because of excesive peak cylinder pressure at lower RPM's. Detonation is your enemy. IF your careful with your timing at lower RPMs- it limits peak BTDC cylinder pressure and doesn't stress the rods. So, run a big turbo with stock rods. Just keep the timing conservative at lower RPMs.

I don't know if thats the best advice to give out on a forum like this. People will read it and think its fine for them to run a BT with stock rods...when really its not. (at the very least you are walking a fine line)
I trust the experiences of the users on here. Common knowledge says its not worth pushing it near 350 on stock rods (i'd keep it below or around 300 personally) Call me a safe guy, but I like my money in my pocket


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## danzig20v (Feb 9, 2006)

threw mine with a 28rs , revo 440 file, at 4500rpm-ish 
i wasnt driving
my girlfriend was playing with an STI while i was sick in the passenger seat....lovely
now i have Pauters and Del Rio software couldn't be happier


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## 20V BUG (Jan 15, 2008)

*Re: (danzig20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *danzig20v* »_threw mine with a 28rs , revo 440 file, at 4500rpm-ish 
i wasnt driving
my girlfriend was playing with an STI while i was sick in the passenger seat....lovely
now i have Pauters and Del Rio software couldn't be happier









I like your girlfriend. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: (20V BUG)*

Please don't get me wrong,rods are the way to go,there is no argument there.I will be doing rods in the near future








Was just posting my experience with my own car,and until I change them,a air conditioned block is a realistic possibilty.
























_Modified by VWAUDITEK at 2:18 AM 7-31-2008_


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## NS_PHATGLI (May 16, 2004)

I smashed three into little peices! and was missing one when they took the engine apart!! somewhere on the street!


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (NS_PHATGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NS_PHATGLI* »_I smashed three into little peices! and was missing one when they took the engine apart!! somewhere on the street!

what was the situation that caused this catastrophic failure?!!!


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## IAmTheNacho (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*

Punched a hole in the block with t3/4 at the track. Wont risk not having rods again.


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## FrankiEBoneZ (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (green02turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *green02turbo* »_IMO, Rods bend and break because of excesive peak cylinder pressure at lower RPM's. Detonation is your enemy. IF your careful with your timing at lower RPMs- it limits peak BTDC cylinder pressure and doesn't stress the rods. *So, run a big turbo with stock rods. Just keep the timing conservative at lower RPMs.*

Biggest thing to keeping the rods intact imo. Its obvioius its to much pressure that snaps the rods. I've always said the hard on people have around here for running such small turbos is causing big torque spikes and snapping rods... I'm still in awe that almost everyone here runs a GT3076R as the "big turbo". How many actually run a GT35R? Why not??? Just doesnt make sense to me.


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## NS_PHATGLI (May 16, 2004)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*

ko4 spike around 30+psi in second beating on it!!


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## munky18t (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: (NS_PHATGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NS_PHATGLI* »_ko4 spike around 30+psi in second beating on it!!


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## rodney_dubs (Mar 2, 2008)

Rods fail from fatigue, end of story. 
You can break them with TONS of cycles at lower pressure, or relatively few cycles at high pressure. 
Torque is a nearly direct measure of cylinder pressure. 
So, just look at your torque, and decide how long you want your engine to last, a few cycles, or lots. There is no magic here, no magic bullet, no tricks, no voodoo, no theories, just a hunk of metal which has a definite fatigue life.
The only way to get around this is to lower the cylinder pressure or make the rods stronger.


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## BourB (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (UntouchableGTI)*








OMG big damage for 300Whp


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## green02turbo (May 13, 2008)

*Re: (loxxrider)*

Some rods are going to break no matter what. Material defects found only under stress or what not. I didn't mean to come off like retarding timing would be a cure-all. If I go to any larger turbo. I'll stick the $400 worth of rods in my motor.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (FrankiEBoneZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FrankiEBoneZ* »_
I'm still in awe that almost everyone here runs a GT3076R as the "big turbo". How many actually run a GT35R? Why not??? Just doesnt make sense to me.

We dont drive evos where a 35r is looked down on since its not a HTA35r or HTA37r. But honestly, for most its a good mix of power and spool. Not to mention our slightly lower rev limit and displacement comepaired to an Evo were 2.3L 35r's with a 8500 rev limit are more abundant than a 30XX here.


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (FrankiEBoneZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FrankiEBoneZ* »_I'm still in awe that almost everyone here runs a GT3076R as the "big turbo". How many actually run a GT35R? Why not??? Just doesnt make sense to me.

And what was your first turbo? And how long did you run it? If you're buying, I'll be happy to take a 35R off your hands.


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## NS_PHATGLI (May 16, 2004)

*Re: (munky18t)*

thats me!! what a bad night that was! towing my 30 000 dollar car with my 300 dollar beater!!


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## passatG60 (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: (NS_PHATGLI)*

plenty of evos running around w/ 50trim, iterations of T series turbos (Green = 50trim; Red = 60-1), GT3076R's, 20G's, etc. Depends what you want. Transient response on GT35R's and larger arent for most ppl and 550+whp also isnt what most ppl want to maintain. Ppl tend to fall in love w/ the numbers, but reality is, there's a downside/upside to just about everything in life...
If you're doing 99% of your driving and runs in the 4000-6500rpm area and not into the dragstrip, why would you want a 35R?
Plus, you can bring your VE's up to maximize whatever setup you have. A said turbo will make more power on a modified engine then a stock engine..


_Modified by passatG60 at 12:29 PM 7-31-2008_


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## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: (passatG60)*

Exactly! that is why I am LOVING my chipped A4 with stock K03,ladies in minivans are no longer smoking me at the stoplight.....haha
Seriously though,although very drivable,bigger turbo cars powerbands are just not in synch with normal traffic.......and nothing is worse than the guy in the Chevy Cobalt thinking he smoked you because he has actual bottom end tq........he just did not know you weren't trying,if you were,they would KNOW snce you gotta rev to 7k!


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (VWAUDITEK)*

honest reason i stayed with a gt2871 .86............i don't always want to rev and hit it hard....especially w/ quattro


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## passatG60 (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: (M this 1!)*

ever try to get up to speed in traffic where vehicles are going at a steady pace? You have to drive the crap out of a huge turbo to get in there (almost have to launch it in all honesty) and then when you get into boost and 800rpm's later realize you almost slammed into the car in front of you doing 55mph... hate that kind of driving..


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (passatG60)*

depends how big you mean, but a 6spd does wonders for these types of situations


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## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: (18T_BT)*

yeah 40-45mph in frist sucks. i sometimes wish my gears were shorter


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## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
We dont drive evos where a 35r is looked down on since its not a HTA35r or HTA37r. But honestly, for most its a good mix of power and spool. Not to mention our slightly lower rev limit and displacement comepaired to an Evo were 2.3L 35r's with a 8500 rev limit are more abundant than a 30XX here.

There's not a single 2.3 stroker evo that revs to 8500... My buddy's was the "highest" reving, and he was on a 37r at 8600... Ended up cracking a piston, from reving? maybe, maybe not, either way he's taking it back down a step.
just wanted to say that.
I'm gonna be honest, the majority of 1.8t guys are worried about spool. p*ssy's.
If someone wants my 3071r, i'll go 35r right now. I don't even care. 
3071r .63 AR for sale.


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## UntouchableGTI (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: (infinityman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infinityman* »_
I'm gonna be honest, the majority of 1.8t guys are worried about spool. p*ssy's.


Yea because waiting 5500rpm for boost to kick in is soooooo great, NOT.


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## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: (UntouchableGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UntouchableGTI* »_
Yea because waiting 5500rpm for boost to kick in is soooooo great, NOT.

pfft, get some springs and exhaust valves and take it to 9k. then you'll have 3500 of full boost.
instead of most poeple with 3071r's waiting for 4k, then reving to 7500.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## UntouchableGTI (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: (infinityman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infinityman* »_
pfft, get some springs and exhaust valves and take it to 9k. then you'll have 3500 of full boost.
instead of most poeple with 3071r's waiting for 4k, then reving to 7500.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Myself in particular have a fully built head, will I take it to 9k, eh, but i know what you mean.


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## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: (UntouchableGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UntouchableGTI* »_
Myself in particular have a fully built head, will I take it to 9k, eh, but i know what you mean.

Why won't you? stock heads can be taken to 8k all day with no problems. I don't see why not.
Hell, even a set of good cams and a big turbo, use that high revving powerband, especially with a 1.8 stroke.
why not?


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (infinityman)*

waiting for 4K???? meh...rod-snapping baby turbos ftw!!!!!


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (infinityman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infinityman* »_
Why won't you? stock heads can be taken to 8k all day with no problems. I don't see why not.
Hell, even a set of good cams and a big turbo, use that high revving powerband, especially with a 1.8 stroke.
why not?

It's not an issue of powerband, it's an issue of waiting till you get to the powerband. The engine might take 9k, but what about the transmission? Especially in a road course, etc etc. You're synchros would take a **** if you downshift from 6k to 8 in order to take a slow corner while being in the powerband.


_Modified by 20aeman at 7:05 AM 8-1-2008_


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## passatG60 (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: (infinityman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infinityman* »_
There's not a single 2.3 stroker evo that revs to 8500... My buddy's was the "highest" reving, and he was on a 37r at 8600... Ended up cracking a piston, from reving? maybe, maybe not, either way he's taking it back down a step.
just wanted to say that.
I'm gonna be honest, the majority of 1.8t guys are worried about spool. p*ssy's.
If someone wants my 3071r, i'll go 35r right now. I don't even care. 
3071r .63 AR for sale.


Haha. Well, I'd like to know what kind of a setup you have now? You plan on revving the car and launching and keeping it as somewhat of a DD? If you have just a basic drop in rod setup, high rpm's are going to own you sooner or later... For high RPM's, pistons/rods and lets say valvetrains arent created equal. If you're one of those that like to slap on a turbo kit and beat the pi$$ out of their otherwise stock car, you have to accept the fact that your car is going to leave you stranded somewhere sooner or later. *****? No, just the 'been there, done that syndrome'...


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

I'd love 500 whp but the truth is for the driving I do, it would be an unfortunate and expensive decision to upgrade to a 30x or a crazy ass 35R. The 28RS is about as much as I can spool unless I'm on the highway.
It's all about where you drive and how you ENJOY driving your car.
But I do like taking rides in 35R's, those things are f'ing monsters.


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## munky18t (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: (IzVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IzVW* »_I'd love 500 whp but the truth is for the driving I do, it would be an unfortunate and expensive decision to upgrade to a 30x or a crazy ass 35R. The 28RS is about as much as I can spool unless I'm on the highway.
It's all about where you drive and how you ENJOY driving your car.
But I do like taking rides in 35R's, those things are f'ing monsters.









thats exactly why i went with the APR stage 3+ kit, i think it will be the best fit for my driving style


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (munky18t)*

for a daily driven car i just cant see the need to rev over 6K. and the difference between just 6k and 7k on your rods is amazing.
load generated by reciprocating motion increases by the *square* of engine RPM. i rev no higher than 6k (because i still have stock rods for the next few weeks), but lets say i raise that limit to 7k, the load increase is not 17% (like engine speed), but *36%!!!* now think about 8K!!!!!










_Modified by BIGGEE TALLS at 3:34 PM 8-2-2008_


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## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (olivier_vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *olivier_vw* »_
The rod.










Epic failure !


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (Falcor)*

any more war stories?


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_for a daily driven car i just cant see the need to rev over 6K.

Based on what?







People seem to have this notion that high rpms = noise = bad. The reason our redline is 6500 stock is due to the tiny turbo that doesn't breath so well past that, though I did feel a K03 spin to 7500 today.


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## dirty2003 (Feb 4, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

edit.... what is a safe rpm to spin with a 2871r


_Modified by dirty2003 at 4:02 PM 8-2-2008_


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (dirty2003)*

What exactly did you just ask?


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (dirty2003)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dirty2003* »_what is a safe rpm so spin then with a 2871r

RPMS depend on the head and bottom end, not the turbo, though when the turbo falls off, eventually there's no point in spinning any higher. With an intake mani and/or cams, 8K should be fine for a 2871. Again, this is assuming you're still making power. If your head has some miles on it, the valve guides could be worn which would be dangerous to spin to high rpms on.


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## dirty2003 (Feb 4, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

well my bottom end is gunna be done soon... so would 7200 be safe with everything else stock....


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## passatG60 (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Based on what?







People seem to have this notion that high rpms = noise = bad. The reason our redline is 6500 stock is due to the tiny turbo that doesn't breath so well past that, though I did feel a K03 spin to 7500 today.









tiny turbo, management isnt mapped for up there, just wasnt designed for that kind of RPM. The problem w/ larger turbos is that to get into the meat of their efficiency, you just have to be up there all the time and that just puts stress on a lot of things. When you're up there, its not the engine only that has to withstand the stress, its the pump, the injectors, the drivetrain, etc etc. You know that adam..


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (passatG60)*

sorry. i based that piece of personal opinion on the idea that most mkIV's have a good bit of miles on them now and that in their stock condition parts are more prone to failure, especially at higher and higher engine load. even my 50 trim makes no more power after 6k (it levels out, but makes no more power). so in my cars present condition i personally see no need to rev higher. when the rods go in and the head gets a light working over here soon, i will rev higher, but then again, its wont be in its stock state anymore, so those worries will no longer be valid.
passatg60: nice signature. he is one of my heros. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_sorry. i based that piece of personal opinion on the idea that most mkIV's have a good bit of miles on them now and that in their stock condition parts are more prone to failure, especially at higher and higher engine load. even my 50 trim makes no more power after 6k (it levels out, but makes no more power). so in my cars present condition i personally see no need to rev higher. when the rods go in and the head gets a light working over here soon, i will rev higher, but then again, its wont be in its stock state anymore, so those worries will no longer be valid.


The falloff is from the stock cams, intake manifold, and head. Porting alone isn't going to really extend your powerband.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Based on what?







People seem to have this notion that high rpms = noise = bad. The reason our redline is 6500 stock is due to the tiny turbo that doesn't breath so well past that, though I did feel a K03 spin to 7500 today.









lol that **** was hilarious, who revs a ko3 t o7500


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Porting alone isn't going to really extend your powerband. 


im leaving the ports alone, but i have 3651 cams and a new mani. thats another thread though.


----------



## rodney_dubs (Mar 2, 2008)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
lol that **** was hilarious, who revs a ko3 t o7500

















well, when there's nothing good on tv, you can always try to make a k03 explode.


----------



## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_
im leaving the ports alone, but i have 3651 cams and a new mani. thats another thread though.










Why would you do a new mani without either porting the head, or getting an AEB?


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (infinityman)*

small port or not, the stock mani sucks above 20PSI.


----------



## GLI_jetta (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_depends how big you mean, but a 6spd does wonders for these types of situations









ohh so true.....


----------



## Pisko (Jan 14, 2006)

gt28rs at 20psi and 2000rpm
320 whp










_Modified by Pisko at 2:42 PM 8-12-2008_


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (Pisko)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pisko* »_gt28rs at 20psi and 2000rpm
320 whp 

are you saying you made 20 PSI at 2000rpm? or did you just type that wrong?


----------



## 20gti1.8turbo02 (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


----------



## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

*Re: (20gti1.8turbo02)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20gti1.8turbo02* »_









She bang she bang







Can't wait to see you back out in the streets bro!


----------



## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*

All I can say is im not going to throw a rod, because tonight we started on installing my new pauter EDM rods








- danm it was nice getting the engine dismantle and seing all the internals and the state they where in - every thing was still super great and looked brand new except one of the rod bearings had a terrible wear, the rod install guy told me maybe 10.000 or 20.000 km more and i would have seen a rod go thru the block because of the wear - other then that my block looked brand new and so did the internals - nice to know after 150.000km







the pistons also revealed im runing way to rich...but cant wait to finish the install tomorrow...
well i guess my point in this thread is if i never had open the engine i would not have seen that one of the rod bearings was wearing out, wich in not to many miles from now would have led to a rod going thru the block....but now i should be in the safe-zone


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (20gti1.8turbo02)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20gti1.8turbo02* »_









how did this happen?


----------



## Pisko (Jan 14, 2006)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*

its not my car and engine, but he was runing it daily holding 20-22psi and the rod broke at 2000rpm


_Modified by Pisko at 9:21 AM 8-13-2008_


----------



## footose_reloaded (May 26, 2003)

*Re: (Pisko)*

I bent all 4 rods
2003 AWP 1.8T
t3/t4 .63 a/r.. 303whp.


----------



## 18Lturbo (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: (footose_reloaded)*


_Quote, originally posted by *footose_reloaded* »_I bent all 4 rods
2003 AWP 1.8T
t3/t4 .63 a/r.. 303whp.

Now im scared!!!! what did you do? WG line fell off? I would understand a .48 - a little too much torque spike. I'm currently building that exact setup!


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (18Lturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *footose_reloaded* »_I bent all 4 rods
2003 AWP 1.8T
t3/t4 .63 a/r.. 303whp.


_Quote, originally posted by *18Lturbo* »_
Now im scared!!!! what did you do? WG line fell off? I would understand a .48 - a little too much torque spike. I'm currently building that exact setup! 

X2 LOL


----------



## 18Lturbo (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
X2 LOL

How is your setup going?! I fit the mani in last night! those 4 bolts really are a B*TCH!!!! I got 3 of the 4 of em' on and began the making of my atp wrench! hopefully it'll work, my friend took it to get welded this morning! he said its done, Im waiting to get outta here so I can contine!


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (footose_reloaded)*


_Quote, originally posted by *footose_reloaded* »_I bent all 4 rods
2003 AWP 1.8T
t3/t4 .63 a/r.. 303whp.

what PSI was this at?


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (footose_reloaded)*


_Quote, originally posted by *footose_reloaded* »_I bent all 4 rods
2003 AWP 1.8T
t3/t4 .63 a/r.. 303whp.

Damn, that's exactly what I have. Jeez, now I'm wondering if I should lower my boost. What other mods? I don't get how some people run a little more HP and never run into this problem. Other people run less HP and have issues.


----------



## loxxrider (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLiMKIV* »_
Damn, that's exactly what I have. Jeez, now I'm wondering if I should lower my boost. What other mods? I don't get how some people run a little more HP and never run into this problem. Other people run less HP and have issues. 

That's the thing, you are just playing a game of chance with stock rods. 
Its not that bad/hard/$$ to drop in a set of IE or SCAT rods!


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (loxxrider)*


_Quote, originally posted by *loxxrider* »_
That's the thing, you are just playing a game of chance with stock rods. 
Its not that bad/hard/$$ to drop in a set of IE or SCAT rods!

Oh I know. IE's are like $325. I could do it and take my time. However, it's hard for me to do it on a weekend. I don't have all the right tools. I would have to do it at my job (I work at a VW dealership). That sounds easy, however, I would have to do it evenings and possibly on a Saturday. When I do it, I will drop the rods in with new rings. I'll just do a quick hone of the block. Nothing major.


----------



## loxxrider (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLiMKIV* »_
Oh I know. IE's are like $325. I could do it and take my time. However, it's hard for me to do it on a weekend. I don't have all the right tools. I would have to do it at my job (I work at a VW dealership). That sounds easy, however, I would have to do it evenings and possibly on a Saturday. When I do it, I will drop the rods in with new rings. I'll just do a quick hone of the block. Nothing major.

woops, sorry, didn't mean to direct that at you in particular








Just wanted to put it out there for everyone though


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (loxxrider)*


_Quote, originally posted by *loxxrider* »_
woops, sorry, didn't mean to direct that at you in particular








Just wanted to put it out there for everyone though









It's all good man. I knew exactly what you were talking about. No offense taken.


----------



## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*

as a point of comparison, I've been running puss boost (17psi) with a t3/t4 .63 for 80k miles and still have straight stock rods...
granted most of that mileage is on the freeway, but I still beat on the car at least once a day..
I've never tried 100oct, or upped the boost past 20psi (well, on purpose at least)
Sorry to all those with rod disfunction


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (transient_analysis)*

I have been running 18/19. In 5th gear and doing a long pull it goes to 20. Other wise it hits 18 only. I will be doing rods at some point. Possibly this year. One of my buddies was running 23psi last summer. 57 trim .63 ar. 440 file. And he is running stock rods and the motor is still in tact! He keeps telling me to up my boost but I say he'll with that. I don't have a spare car and a couple thousand to fix the car.


----------



## 18Lturbo (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: (loxxrider)*


_Quote, originally posted by *loxxrider* »_
woops, sorry, didn't mean to direct that at you in particular








Just wanted to put it out there for everyone though









you threw rods because your hydrolocked it! not because of BT...


----------



## the kevin (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (BIGGEE TALLS)*

i wish i had a pic of the one we pulled from the car thats in the shop now.
snapped the rod just off of the crank and about an inch down from the wrist pin.. actually ripped the wrist pin out of the bottom of hte piston. two holes in the block, one in the oil pan. when we pulled the head, the piston was at the bottom of the cylinder, it was sitting crooked and it looked like it had twisted in the bore slightly.
it is a B6 A4 and it had an eliminator on it. too much boost i suspect.


----------



## footose_reloaded (May 26, 2003)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote »_Now im scared!!!! what did you do? WG line fell off? I would understand a .48 - a little too much torque spike. I'm currently building that exact setup! 

21~ psi
The crank bearing let go. 100,000km's on that particular setup however. It's bound to happen after that many clicks. Daily driver, 365days a year.
I'm running a smaller turbo now, so the torque spike wont be so abrupt up top.
This is the one that pooched the motor tho.








After the **** up...










_Modified by footose_reloaded at 2:40 PM 8-14-2008_


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (footose_reloaded)*


_Quote, originally posted by *footose_reloaded* »_
21~ psi
The crank bearing let go. 100,000km's on that particular setup however. It's bound to happen after that many clicks. Daily driver, 365days a year.
I'm running a smaller turbo now, so the torque spike wont be so abrupt up top.
This is the one that pooched the motor tho.








After the **** up...









_Modified by footose_reloaded at 2:40 PM 8-14-2008_

Smaller turbo = torque spike, bigger turbo smaller to no spikes


----------



## footose_reloaded (May 26, 2003)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote »_Smaller turbo = torque spike, bigger turbo smaller to no spikes

Nah, you aren't taking in the big picture, and possibly confusing "torque spikes" with "boost spikes".
Your driving habits change w/ a BT, espically a *BIG* turbo. In a K03 car (or whatever you drive) you don't need to downshift near as often, and you rarely take your RPM's to the edge.
On a BT car, you are always in the high RPM's, and always downshifting. You get major "torque spikes" when you are on the throttle, at the right time. The thing is, your are doubling the torque spike you get with a k03 at a higher RPM.. thus.. "torque spikes" kill rods, particularly at high RPM's. 
Been around the block and back with these unfortunately found out a lot of stuff the hard way.

_Modified by footose_reloaded at 4:35 PM 8-14-2008_


_Modified by footose_reloaded at 4:36 PM 8-14-2008_


----------



## footose_reloaded (May 26, 2003)

*Re: (footose_reloaded)*

And here's a low boost dyno from my car (before tuning, like 15psi i can't quite remember) to show you what a "torque spike" looks like.








and obviously a K03 dyno..


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

that is a mean torque spike in that first one!!!! if it spiked like that with more boost on a regular basis... say goodnight!!!!!!!


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*

My ko3s goes from 150wtq @2200 to 300wtq @3k, talk about a tq spike. Makes it hard to drive, cant wait to dump the pea shooter for something with some lag.... did i mention that is at only 19psi








Built engine and small turbo


----------



## footose_reloaded (May 26, 2003)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote »_say goodnight!!!!!!!

Definietly.... thats what fried my first motor


----------



## 18Lturbo (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: (footose_reloaded)*


_Quote, originally posted by *footose_reloaded* »_
Definietly.... thats what fried my first motor









So its was your tune that did you in? with a combination of alot of BT miles. thats how you mek it sound. what turbo is that? def not a garrett 50t... looks bigger than a 50t in general








What turbo are you running now?


----------



## footose_reloaded (May 26, 2003)

*Re: (18Lturbo)*


_Quote »_So its was your tune that did you in? with a combination of alot of BT miles. thats how you mek it sound. what turbo is that? def not a garrett 50t... looks bigger than a 50t in general

The turbo was a T3/T04E .63 / .48 if I remember correctly.
The first tune I ever had was the Upsolute "original" BT program. Basically, this was in 2003, before a lot of BT's were common, and software wasn't aval, REVO was probably just being written and Unitronics was a glimmer in someones eye. 

_Quote »_
What turbo are you running now?

I'm running my Third BT actually, and it is a custom setup done by http://www.cherryturbos.com. The guys name is herman, and he will tell you more in 15 minutes about turbo's then you could ever find on the internet. Really nice guy, and always looking to help out. If you call, say you are from http://www.GenerationDub.com, he'll know.. his website sucks, but he builds turbos', not websites. He also does custom K03's with T3/t4 internals for a bit more power. Pretty cool actually. .. anyway..
Mine is a custom T3/T04B, I forget the actual specs on it, but it's significantly smaller. Herman also made it Water cooled for me, so it's way cooler then just the oil cooled counterpart.. The good news is, it still makes similar power, but a lot sooner. I'm only looking for the 300whp range, not like you crazy guys making 400+, and I guarantee Herman will balance a T3/T4 so well that it will spool way quicker then any GT28 Garbage (We don't have to get into the Ball Bearing argument right now ahhaah)

But we are getting totally off topic now..



















_Modified by footose_reloaded at 10:20 AM 8-15-2008_


----------



## dspl1236 (May 30, 2007)

*FV-QR*

100% stock
motor blown by po
#2&3 rods went out both sides of block


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*








Torque spike lol. I thought torque uptop, wasnt that bad, it was torque down low thats rough bc of the slower rotating masses.


----------



## loxxrider (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (18Lturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18Lturbo* »_
you threw rods because your hydrolocked it! not because of BT...









so.....that means I can't warn people about 300whp and what it can do to rods based on A LOT of other people's experience? and based on the fact that there were a few times that I KNOW if I didn't have rods, my old motor would be in pieces?


----------



## neilbmx (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (footose_reloaded)*


_Quote, originally posted by *footose_reloaded* »_
T3/T4 so well that it will spool way quicker then any GT28 Garbage (We don't have to get into the Ball Bearing argument right now ahhaah)



are you sure it spools quicker mahaha


----------



## footose_reloaded (May 26, 2003)

*Re: (neilbmx)*

ahahahha pretty sure







lol
I know it doesn't spool as quick as a 2.0TFSI


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (loxxrider)*


_Quote, originally posted by *loxxrider* »_
so.....that means I can't warn people about 300whp and what it can do to rods based on A LOT of other people's experience? and based on the fact that there were a few times that I KNOW if I didn't have rods, my old motor would be in pieces?

If there are moments that you KNOW that if you didn't have upgraded rods your motor would blow...then your motor is defenitely gonna blow either you have rods or not. Don't assume that only because you put in stronger rods that your engine won't give up.
And about that 300whp...there are many people that are running 300whp daily without problems, me being one of them...I won't say that my engine is not gonna blow up, it may...may not...i wouldn't be surprised that if it doesn't, when i just think what i went through with this engine, i am really surprised that it's still running at all...it has almost 150 000km on it and been beaten on like crazy.


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (mescaline)*

i had a crack in my .63 housing so i had to put on a .48 i had. wow!!! the difference on a 50 trim is crazy!!! im scared to run over 10 PSI. its at 10 PSI by 3200 RPMs.... it was 4800 before....


----------



## footose_reloaded (May 26, 2003)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote »_, when i just think what i went through with this engine, i am really surprised that it's still running at all...it has almost 150 000km on it and been beaten on like crazy.

Yah, I had 150,000km's on mine (BT km's) before it blew.. and ran it 365 days a year...


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_i had a crack in my .63 housing so i had to put on a .48 i had. wow!!! the difference on a 50 trim is crazy!!! im scared to run over 10 PSI. its at 10 PSI by 3200 RPMs.... it was 4800 before....

dont be a wuss!!


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
dont be a wuss!!
















LOL. I would do the same with my turbo. I'd love to run like 22psi, but with stock rods, I wont do it. I don't have the funds to do a complete rebuild. I was going to do rods in the upcoming couple weeks, but I had some things come up so that wont happen.


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
dont be a wuss!!
















i wasnt being totally serious
its beyond me why one would want crazy down low power with a small housing. itll [email protected]#K the motor up and you cant even use it. i was smoking the tires in second. in first its just useless....


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_
i wasnt being totally serious
its beyond me why one would want crazy down low power with a small housing. itll [email protected]#K the motor up and you cant even use it. i was smoking the tires in second. in first its just useless....


I'll tell you something. A buddy of mine has an 86 GTI with a built motor running a T3 with a .43 a/r. That thing has so much low end torque. On the highway, he just floors it in 5th gear and goes.


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*

i had a t3 super 60 before this... it was at 21 PSI by 3200!!!!!!! F-ing insane!!! before that i had a k04-001 that hit 26 PSI by 3000 RPMs.... that must have weakened my rods.... the k04 dynoed at 306 torque!!! 
and low down power is much more useful if youre already moving (as in your friends case)


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_i had a t3 super 60 before this... it was at 21 PSI by 3200!!!!!!! F-ing insane!!! before that i had a k04-001 that hit 26 PSI by 3000 RPMs.... that must have weakened my rods.... the k04 dynoed at 306 torque!!! 
and low down power is much more useful if youre already moving (as in your friends case)

I remember my K04. That was a lot of fun. Not having to really downshift when wanting to pass someone. I like the feel of the turbo picking up boost. I'm not a fan of huge lag. But once the boost is there, hold on. I love the .63 on the highway.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLiMKIV* »_
I remember my K04. That was a lot of fun. Not having to really downshift when wanting to pass someone. I like the feel of the turbo picking up boost. I'm not a fan of huge lag. But once the boost is there, hold on. I love the .63 on the highway.

x2 with my 50trim .63 but getting use to downshifting


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
x2 with my 50trim .63 but getting use to downshifting









I got the downshifting and pre-boost almost down-pat. I downshift, tap on the accelerator a few times and let it go and she's already at 5psi and within a few seconds its fully boosted.


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
x2 with my 50trim .63 but getting use to downshifting









when did you put on the 50 trim? fun huh? i miss my .63


----------



## GeosAvant (Apr 17, 2004)

That was the result of a rod disappearing at around 6900 RPM. I was in 4th gear, 11.2 AF ratio (so it wasn't a fueling problem) and heard a noise then lost RPMs. This was the result. The rod was gone, probably embedded into the ground somewhere on I-75 north. This was back in 2005, rod swaps were just starting to happen.
The important info:
440cc injectors
22 psi + methanol injection
60 trim turbo, .63 AR exhaust housing
Stock rods
The second pic is of bottom of the piston up near TDC. Car still drove after this BTW, even with no crank position sensor in the block and no oil in the pan. Thank you Amsoil.


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (GeosAvant)*

With your list of mods, were you wanting it all break? LOL


----------



## GeosAvant (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLiMKIV* »_With your list of mods, were you wanting it all break? LOL

To me, that's the funny part. I never had a transmission or CV axle issue. 12K miles of beating, dyno runs and whatnot and the #3 rod just left without leaving a note. Bastard.


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (GeosAvant)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GeosAvant* »_
11.2 AF ratio

440cc injectors
22 psi + methanol injection
60 trim turbo, .63 AR exhaust housing


was it a t3/t4 60 trim? if so, im surprised you had fuel for that AFR. my 440s arent good for much over 21 PSI...


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (GeosAvant)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GeosAvant* »_
To me, that's the funny part. I never had a transmission or CV axle issue. 12K miles of beating, dyno runs and whatnot and the #3 rod just left without leaving a note. Bastard.









I'd say you are a very lucky person to have gone that long, beating on it, dyno's and so forth. I'm running 18/19 psi. However, I don't get on it on first and second gear, hardly ever! I normally start with 3rd and progress to 6th. I want to do the rods asap. I just don't have the $800 to buy the rods and the other stuff that goes with it to do it. I want to replace the rings as well because the pistons are going to come out. I'm not removing the entire motor, just the head and oil pan.


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLiMKIV* »_
I'd say you are a very lucky person to have gone that long, beating on it, dyno's and so forth. I'm running 18/19 psi. However, I don't get on it on first and second gear, hardly ever! I normally start with 3rd and progress to 6th. I want to do the rods asap. I just don't have the $800 to buy the rods and the other stuff that goes with it to do it. I want to replace the rings as well because the pistons are going to come out. I'm not removing the entire motor, just the head and oil pan. 

Faster you go, more chances are you gonna blow up your engine because there is more counter-force and load on the engine. You will be fine spinning tires 1st and 2nd gear but once you gain traction....thats problematic zone


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
Faster you go, more chances are you gonna blow up your engine because there is more counter-force and load on the engine. You will be fine spinning tires 1st and 2nd gear but once you gain traction....thats problematic zone









Oh I hear ya on that. That's why everyday I keep thinking if I should just take 2psi out to be on the safe side until I can do my rods. It just feels good at 18/19psi. I can't wait to run 24-26 daily!


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*

I ran 24psi on my 57trim .63 for 12k miles, every day i beat on it. Then i switched to a 36r and ran 21psi daily for 3-4k miles and a engine with 100k on it. No problems, then again im pretty lucky and my turbos dont have huge torque spikes like some small turbos. Either way i was worried everyday if it was going to blow. Upgrade the rods.


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_I ran 24psi on my 57trim .63 for 12k miles, every day i beat on it. Then i switched to a 36r and ran 21psi daily for 3-4k miles and a engine with 100k on it. No problems, then again im pretty lucky and my turbos dont have huge torque spikes like some small turbos. Either way i was worried everyday if it was going to blow. Upgrade the rods.

You are very lucky! My friend has the same turbo setup as you had (57 trim), he was running same psi. He was also running same injectors as you and software. I don't really beat on my car. I rarely get on it even when I go to work and back home. I've put probably about 10k on my car since the BT setup. I will do the rods. It's just about the money. I know its cheap. I just can't swing the $800 or so to do it right now. And I don't have huge torque spikes either with my 50 trim .63! I do like to progressive pulling!


----------



## lowandslow4now (Feb 7, 2007)

*For the AEB guys and gals*

I have searched around and i know for most 1.8t's you blow your motor between 300-350 TQ. But who here as popped an AEB block with Stock internals. What was your setup? Thanks


----------



## UntouchableGTI (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: For the AEB guys and gals (lowandslow4now)*

An aeb bottom end it pretty much the same as all other 1.8Ts so 300-350tq is a universal number


----------



## lowandslow4now (Feb 7, 2007)

*Re: For the AEB guys and gals (UntouchableGTI)*

Thats what i thought but as i read through many posts it has the 20mm wrist pins and everywhere i looked AZ, here, and audiforums no one knows if they are forged or not no definete answers.


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: For the AEB guys and gals (lowandslow4now)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lowandslow4now* »_Thats what i thought but as i read through many posts it has the 20mm wrist pins and everywhere i looked AZ, here, and audiforums no one knows if they are forged or not no definete answers. 

No, they're not forged, its like any other 1.8t rod. The wrist pin doesn't make a difference in rod strength, the pin area isn't where they break.


----------



## lowandslow4now (Feb 7, 2007)

*Re: For the AEB guys and gals (themachasy)*

Thanks for clearing that up for me. But im still curious as who has vented there AEB stock bottom end.


----------



## GeosAvant (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_
was it a t3/t4 60 trim? if so, im surprised you had fuel for that AFR. my 440s arent good for much over 21 PSI...

Yessir it was. I was backing it up with a pretty decent shot of methanol. I had an LM-1 hooked up to it while I was running it. Matter of fact I was logging the ride at the time, which is how I know when the engine failed.


----------



## EF9Si (Dec 12, 2003)

*Re: (GeosAvant)*

I was doing some log last night and stupid me i forgot to turn down my mbc, i saw 24 psi on the needle and i back off so fast!! lol.. I do 15-16 psi daily.. Its good enough for the time being..


----------



## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: (EF9Si)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EF9Si* »_I was doing some log last night and stupid me i forgot to turn down my mbc, i saw 24 psi on the needle and i back off so fast!! lol.. I do 15-16 psi daily.. Its good enough for the time being..









I bet 24psi felt good.








Yeah once my wastegate line ripped off with my 3071r (stock motor) and it climbed pretty fast. That was scary, but felt good.


----------



## EF9Si (Dec 12, 2003)

*Re: (infinityman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infinityman* »_
I bet 24psi felt good.








Yeah once my wastegate line ripped off with my 3071r (stock motor) and it climbed pretty fast. That was scary, but felt good.









It did for a blink of a second!! I need beefier rods now lol!


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (EF9Si)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EF9Si* »_I was doing some log last night and stupid me i forgot to turn down my mbc, i saw 24 psi on the needle and i back off so fast!! lol.. I do 15-16 psi daily.. Its good enough for the time being..









That happened to me too! The power was crazy compared to 18psi! She just kept on going. But I only held it there for a split second and let off. This happened after I found out my BOV was leaking. So I installed a DV and never turned the boost down and that's when she hit 24. I'm pretty sure it could have gone up another pound or two, but I didn't want to chance it. But this 50 trim I guess is really good at 20psi and above.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLiMKIV* »_
That happened to me too! The power was crazy compared to 18psi! She just kept on going. But I only held it there for a split second and let off. This happened after I found out my BOV was leaking. So I installed a DV and never turned the boost down and that's when she hit 24. I'm pretty sure it could have gone up another pound or two, but I didn't want to chance it. But this 50 trim I guess is really good at 20psi and above. 

she does rip at 20psi, i leave mine there


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
she does rip at 20psi, i leave mine there

Your mold bold then I am! I still think about lowering it to like 16 or 17.

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLiMKIV* »_
Your mold bold then I am! I still think about lowering it to like 16 or 17.

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










at 16 i feel slower then my crazy ko3 250.3 hp and 329.3 tq


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
at 16 i feel slower then my crazy ko3 250.3 hp and 329.3 tq 

I hear yea. I was running my K04 at like 19psi. Spiked to like 23. However, with this BT, I don't know if 20psi is a smart thing to do for me at least. At least until I can do my rods. Then I'll probably run like 24-26 daily. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLiMKIV* »_
I hear yea. I was running my K04 at like 19psi. Spiked to like 23. However, with this BT, I don't know if 20psi is a smart thing to do for me at least. At least until I can do my rods. Then I'll probably run like 24-26 daily. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

eh 20 is roughly 300 by looking at most graphs, and low torque, figured i am safer then any APR 3/3+ kit.


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
eh 20 is roughly 300 by looking at most graphs, and low torque, figured i am safer then any APR 3/3+ kit.

Yea, but remember too, there are people who popped their rods with less than 300whp! I guess its a chance we all take.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLiMKIV* »_
Yea, but remember too, there are people who popped their rods with less than 300whp! I guess its a chance we all take.

true but most have been on a system where torque is generated way down low.


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
true but most have been on a system where torque is generated way down low. 

That is true too. Knowing my luck, if I go to 20psi my rods will snap like toothpicks!


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLiMKIV* »_
That is true too. Knowing my luck, if I go to 20psi my rods will snap like toothpicks! 

when i can convince adam to help me do rods in two days... i will run 25psi daily and maybe some water meth


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
when i can convince adam to help me do rods in two days... i will run 25psi daily and maybe some water meth

That sounds like a plan! I can't wait to be running an extra 7/8 psi.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLiMKIV* »_
That sounds like a plan! I can't wait to be running an extra 7/8 psi.









eh screw the meth i will just run 870s and E85 and make like 430hp all timing and 32lbs


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLiMKIV* »_
I can't wait to be running an extra 7/8 psi.









seven eighths of a PSI isnt going to make much of a difference


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_
seven eighths of a PSI isnt going to make much of a difference









Jeez, your getting all technical now!







. I hope you knew I meant 7-8 psi. LOL.


----------



## EF9Si (Dec 12, 2003)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
at 16 i feel slower then my crazy ko3 250.3 hp and 329.3 tq 
Yeah, i feel that sometimes i think this turbo start partying above 20 psi lol!!!


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (EF9Si)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EF9Si* »_Yeah, i feel that sometimes i think this turbo start partying above 20 psi lol!!!









Too bad I gotta wait for my rods to go behond the 20psi mark. It's ok, it'll be worth the wait.


----------



## EF9Si (Dec 12, 2003)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLiMKIV* »_
Too bad I gotta wait for my rods to go behond the 20psi mark. It's ok, it'll be worth the wait. 
I'm in the same boat..


----------



## thatAstock18T (Nov 16, 2005)

i'll have some better ones when i take the head off later this week but u can tell its pretty f.u.b.a.r'ed in this pic. (you can't see in the pic but theres another hole on the back side of the block also lol)


----------



## gtigotbigturbo (Apr 7, 2008)

*Re: (WhatsOEM)*


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (thatAstock18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thatAstock18T* »_i'll have some better ones when i take the head off later this week but u can tell its pretty f.u.b.a.r'ed in this pic. (you can't see in the pic but theres another hole on the back side of the block also lol)









I really hope I can avoid that!


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (thatAstock18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thatAstock18T* »_









how did this happen?


----------



## thatAstock18T (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_
how did this happen?

idk yet something failed miserably. it wasn't over rev'ed and i really don't think i run my car that hard. i only had 65k


----------



## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: (thatAstock18T)*

aeb rods are NOT the same as later engines,they are beefier rods,and used in the earlier 16V PL,9A motors.


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: (thatAstock18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thatAstock18T* »_
idk yet something failed miserably. it wasn't over rev'ed and i really don't think i run my car that hard. i only had 65k

I have like 86k on my car. A k04 was on there for about 20k. It was stock right up until the 50k mark. I'm trying to keep it easy.


----------



## rrooccaa (Jul 31, 2006)

*Re: (GLiMKIV)*

well i threw a rod too. the equation...... gt30r +660 injectors+tip+manual boost controller+238,000 miles+ stock motor+ you guys ready for this......NO BOOST GAUGE!!!!





















=130mph detonation an obliterated starter and a split in half heat shield for the t.i.p. LMFAO all i could do was laugh when it happend.
















now i had a better picture before we test fitted the starter as you can see but the whole goes waay farther to the right past the starter and the heat shield split in half cuz when i pulled over and popped the hood it was split in half and resting on the turbo and the frame ill try and get the rest of the pictures.







i probly shouldnt have turned the boost up before getting on the turnpike


----------



## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: (rrooccaa)*

who here as actually broke a rod
who here as actually broken a rod *

Does anyone else get pissed off when reading that?


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (infinityman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infinityman* »_
Does anyone else get pissed off when reading that?


----------



## rodney_dubs (Mar 2, 2008)

maybe i should give a set of rods to whoever has the most spectacular assplosion.


----------



## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: (rodney_dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rodney_dubs* »_maybe i should give a set of rods to whoever has the most spectacular assplosion.









LOL!


----------



## dspl1236 (May 30, 2007)

*FV-QR*

i just broke 1.8 bottom end 2 hours ago....8v power baby!


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (dspl1236)*

I just dont understand why and how people can spend the $$ a bt turbo these days and complain about the cost of rods.Heck you can get assembled rods shipped to your door for close to if not less than what it used to cost to have stockers magfluxed,peened and arp installed/resized








another thing maybe I am just a bit old school but where I come from we build the block 1st then add the big snail later








I know I'll be just fine and dandy running my 2.0 20v bottom end this winter a bit before adding the turbo later.It will have a nice break in/inspection time to make sure is all ok before all hell breaks loose later


----------



## Grifkylian (Feb 8, 2007)

My boss Mitch had a BMP 20AE w/APR's Stage 3+ BT Setup... He was an idiot to fiddle with the software... GT28RS + 30 Psi + 93 Oct + Stock Bottom End= Hole Through Cylinder Wall... Cost To Replicate This? Priceless


----------



## justn868 (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (Grifkylian)*

ouch...thats what he gets!


----------



## Grifkylian (Feb 8, 2007)

Hes an idiot also because he let his 'friend' bring it to a dyno when he wasnt there... therefore, it could've been even more than 30 Psi


----------



## 98vrsick (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: (infinityman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infinityman* »_who here as actually broke a rod
who here as actually broken a rod *

Does anyone else get pissed off when reading that?

who here has actually broken a rod* has...not as


----------



## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: (98vrsick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98vrsick* »_
who here has actually broken a rod* has...not as









oops, well you know what i MEANT. haha. That was actually a typo. I mean, that as actually a typo.


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (not SoQuick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *not SoQuick* »_I just dont understand why and how people can spend the $$ a bt turbo these days and complain about the cost of rods.Heck you can get assembled rods shipped to your door for close to if not less than what it used to cost to have stockers magfluxed,peened and arp installed/resized










Yeah the stock rods are the problem, not the bolts. I don't see whats "assembled" about a rod though? You can get them for like $350 for the set that'll handle whatever you can throw at them. Simple to put in, pretty cheap. I think the misconception lies in that people think you need pistons AND rods which you don't, the stock pistons are fine. Stock rods just suck.


----------



## GLiMKIV (Nov 12, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (themachasy)*

I went to IE's site and for basically $800 you can get everything you need to do the rod swap. That's cheap insurance!


----------



## sexwagon (Jan 12, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (GLiMKIV)*

im selling NEW IE rods for $320 shipped to your door. 
get at me anyone!


----------



## Grifkylian (Feb 8, 2007)

The reason most people do both the rods AND the pistons (i know from customers in the past) is because they are always getting that need for more power... Not to say that the stock pistons are bad by any means, but usually they do the pistons and rods because not only will it allow them to make more power (reliablity), but they would rather do it as its all apart at once...


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

stock pistons have made over 700hp


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_stock pistons have made over 700hp









Im going to be running stock AMU pistons close to 600whp if not more


----------



## joe thielen (May 9, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_stock pistons have made over 700hp









mahle motorsport?


----------



## rodney_dubs (Mar 2, 2008)

no, oem AEB.


----------



## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: (rodney_dubs)*

I always thought OEM pistons were made by mahle.


----------



## Grifkylian (Feb 8, 2007)

No, the stock pistons used by Volkswagen are supposedly Kolbenschmidts but I could be wrong...


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (Grifkylian)*

theyre mahle


----------



## loxxrider (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*

Yes they are Mahle, and yes they have made over 700hp as stated above.
Also B, I feel ya so much on the "broke" thing.








I never commented on it though...for one reason or another.


----------



## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_theyre mahle

they sure are....and if i remember correctly no-one has ever seen the limits of these pistons, but for sure 99% of all dubbers will never push them to the limit they can hold to, because these pistons are already handling 600hp...
The only reason i can see for running different pistons is to get different compression, thats all.


----------



## rodney_dubs (Mar 2, 2008)

or stroker, or if your block is fubar'd.


----------



## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: (rodney_dubs)*

or if you pull your pistons out ready to do a simple rod exchange and they look like this:


----------



## dubbin'0n15s (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: (infinityman)*

was driving normally when it happened, cruising in 2nd about to shift into 3rd and bam! rod #2 broke and busted 2 holes, one in the rear and one in the front


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

isnt that biggies tails old car? Ironic that the thread starter's car eventually threw a rod.


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_isnt that biggies tails old car? Ironic that the thread starter's car eventually threw a rod.

it sure is!!!! ironic as [email protected]#k!!!!!!!! my poor, poor baby








i sold it to him with a 50 trim on it. he drove it pretty hard and it blew so he put a 57 trim on...
i miss the GTI sometimes (with its wideband O2). although Quattro and an AEB head do console me somewhat

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view











_Modified by BIGGEE TALLS at 2:45 PM 2-1-2009_


----------



## dubbin'0n15s (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_
it sure is!!!! ironic as [email protected]#k!!!!!!!! my poor, poor baby








i sold it to him with a 50 trim on it. he drove it pretty hard and it blew so he put a 57 trim on...
i miss the GTI sometimes (with its wideband O2). although Quattro and an AEB head do console me somewhat

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










_Modified by BIGGEE TALLS at 2:45 PM 2-1-2009_

lol for sure, man i miss my a4 too! but your "baby" as you will be alive soon enough and better than ever, putting down more power than it ever did http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif will keep you posted


----------



## chknkatsu (Jun 19, 2008)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (loxxrider)*


_Quote, originally posted by *loxxrider* »_i know its not what u were looking for, but hydrolock!!!!









x2


----------



## skatepopwar182 (Jul 15, 2008)

when i go k04-20 do you think i will need rods? motor is awp


----------



## chknkatsu (Jun 19, 2008)

*Re: (skatepopwar182)*

you don't need rods with KO4's


----------



## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: (skatepopwar182)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skatepopwar182* »_when i go k04-20 do you think i will need rods? motor is awp 

Definitely not.
You'll be OK, as long as you aren't running 30PSI (at 3k rpms)
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## skatepopwar182 (Jul 15, 2008)

Thats good to know. My power goals are low for my car i only want 250+


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (skatepopwar182)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skatepopwar182* »_ i only want 250+ 

i remember back when i said that too


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_
i remember back when i said that too









dont we all


----------



## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*

I sure remember when I thought 250whp would be good. I'm glad i went straight from k03 to a real turbo.
Most of the guys on here were like k03, k04, gt28r, then a real BT. hahaha


----------



## lucas13dourado (Oct 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

this is probably the best thread on vortex


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (lucas13dourado)*

or the saddest


----------



## dubbin'0n15s (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (BIGGEE TALLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_or the saddest









nah, its more of a motivational thread.


----------



## split71 (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (dubbin'0n15s)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubbin’0n15s* »_
nah, its more of a motivational thread.

haha did somebody learn their lesson?


----------



## siccmade (Nov 16, 2005)

after a motor is hydrolocked and has a bent rod, what are the chances of replacing that rod and the motor still bein able to still be good to run?


----------



## split71 (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: (siccmade)*


_Quote, originally posted by *siccmade* »_after a motor is hydrolocked and has a bent rod, what are the chances of replacing that rod and the motor still bein able to still be good to run?

That's what happened to my motor. It was hydrolocked..








So ALL of the rods were replaced with Scat rods, block was fine. Head had a few bent valves, so the head was rebuilt with OEM equipment....and well, the car went big turbo







. Car has ran good since then and since i've owned it, no hiccups except for other exhaust leaks and such.


_Modified by split71 at 2:09 PM 2-3-2009_


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*FV-QR*

how can hydro locking bend a rod? and, in your particular project, how did the motor become hydrolocked?


----------



## lucas13dourado (Oct 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGGEE TALLS* »_how can hydro locking bend a rod? and, in your particular project, how did the motor become hydrolocked?


my guess is that either the watter cleans out the oil and it becomes metal to metal OR the piston tries to compress water and just bends


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (lucas13dourado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lucas13dourado* »_the piston tries to compress water and just bends

*ding*
You can't compress liquid.


----------



## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (haenszel)*

that would be alot of water in there







CAI?


----------



## chknkatsu (Jun 19, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (BIGGEE TALLS)*

for me it was CAI
it doesn't take as much water as you think, just enough to prevent the cylinder from compressing the amount it should.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: (chknkatsu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chknkatsu* »_you don't need rods with KO4's

KO4's make a lot of torque, I'd be careful running stock rods on that set up.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
KO4's make a lot of torque, I'd be careful running stock rods on that set up. 

there is a lot of 350+ tq k04 setups....... eep.


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (split71)*


_Quote, originally posted by *split71* »_
haha did somebody learn their lesson?









lol yes... me


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (bwell01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwell01* »_
lol yes... me

Hey dude! It looks like your rod is upside down in there!

Zing.


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
Hey dude! It looks like your rod is upside down in there!

Zing.

yeah i think it snapped in half. not sure if i will open it up and take a look since i ended up getting a shortblock with 23k on it. the build should be starting within the next week or so just waiting on gaskets. 
ie
3076
044
kinetic
tial
snow performance
eurosport
abd
im sure im forgetting a lot of crap


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (bwell01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwell01* »_
yeah i think it snapped in half. not sure if i will open it up and take a look since i ended up getting a shortblock with 23k on it. the build should be starting within the next week or so just waiting on gaskets. 
ie
3076
044
kinetic
tial
snow performance
eurosport
abd
im sure im forgetting a lot of crap 

Very nice! Who did you get your rods from?


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Very nice! Who did you get your rods from?









due to the rush and the fact that i had already purchased most of the hardware for a rebuild i ended up buying local. its robbery out here though as it ended up costing me 1500 for a stock motor. low mileage though and the car it came out of was in pristine condition owned by an older woman.
oh lol rods... i ordered them online almost a year ago so i cant remember. the engine was purchased local


_Modified by bwell01 at 1:50 PM 2-4-2009_


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## chknkatsu (Jun 19, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
KO4's make a lot of torque, I'd be careful running stock rods on that set up. 

it's ok, I already have IE rods








I put them in after I hydrolocked


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## Mintdub (Jan 15, 2004)

*Re: (chknkatsu)*

Heres mine... rod (3) put a hole in both side of the block and the oil pan... Stock motor.. hard pull in 3rd gear.. 10lbs of boost.. I was pissed.. If it happened at the track it would have been a little mor acceptable.. but i was on my way home from the grocery store, lmao


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## EF9Si (Dec 12, 2003)

*Re: (Mintdub)*

10lbs you busted a rod? What turbo?


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## nbkkb7x (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: who here has actually broke a rod? (loxxrider)*


_Quote, originally posted by *loxxrider* »_i know its not what u were looking for, but hydrolock!!!!









Lean back...lean back...lean back...








-MP


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (EF9Si)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EF9Si* »_10lbs you busted a rod? What turbo?

X2..... 35R .42 A/R?


_Quote, originally posted by *nbkkb7x* »_
Lean back...lean back...lean back...








-MP











_Modified by BIGGEE TALLS at 10:25 AM 2-6-2009_


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## nbkkb7x (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*









-MP


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## Mintdub (Jan 15, 2004)

*Re: (EF9Si)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EF9Si* »_10lbs you busted a rod? What turbo?

BONE STOCK MAN... dont ask me why... i feel like the car was beat to **** before i bought it... a company owned it.. it was a fleet car i guess.. i dont know.. Now i have every bolt on u can get pratically. and im running strong.. I bought a neubeatle motor and rebuilt it. built it up.


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (Mintdub)*

i hope you put some real rods in since you had the new block open anyways....


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Supplementry Question..
Which rod fails the most? #3 cylinder?


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## Mintdub (Jan 15, 2004)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_Supplementry Question..
Which rod fails the most? #3 cylinder?

i would like to know aswell... it would be interesting to find out..

And i couldnt afford to do rods and pistons at the time.. i wish i could ahve.. but im not to worried about it. This car will prolly never see a big enough turbo to even worry about the rods and what not..







Maybe down the road... i have to get married and stuff in a year so i cant spend any money


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## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_Supplementry Question..
Which rod fails the most? #3 cylinder?

never thought of it like that but number 3 was the one for me


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## audis488 (May 19, 2006)

*Re: (bwell01)*

i think i broke one.








hydrolock ftl
lol car ran too Ha.

_Modified by audis488 at 10:51 AM 2-9-2009_


_Modified by audis488 at 6:28 PM 2-9-2009_


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## votexgli (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: (audis488)*

I blew a crank, does that count


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## Mintdub (Jan 15, 2004)

*Re: (audis488)*


_Quote, originally posted by *audis488* »_i think i broke one.








hydrolock ftl
lol car ran too Ha.

_Modified by audis488 at 10:53 AM 2-9-2009_

IT RAN!! lol... Low compression ratio eh, lol


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

*FV-QR*

now its good for high boost


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (audis488)*


_Quote, originally posted by *audis488* »_i think i broke one.


No, you bent it. lol


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## Mintdub (Jan 15, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_now its good for high boost  

lmao!! yeah. hes set to ruyn 30 lbs now.. good to go. who needs to stack headgaskets anymore... just bend all your rods







ha ha


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## lucas13dourado (Oct 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *votexgli* »_I blew a crank, does that count











got pics?


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## audis488 (May 19, 2006)

*Re: (Mintdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mintdub* »_
IT RAN!! lol... Low compression ratio eh, lol

did compression test it was 88 psi lol.


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## Mintdub (Jan 15, 2004)

*Re: (audis488)*


_Quote, originally posted by *audis488* »_
did compression test it was 88 psi lol.

Jesus, ha ha ha. crazyness.. im amazed that the engine turned over and stuff.. Just enough clearance to not hit anything..
When it happened.. were u skeptical about what happened?? since the engine was turning over and stuff? Were u suprised when you opened her up?


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## audis488 (May 19, 2006)

*Re: (Mintdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mintdub* »_
Jesus, ha ha ha. crazyness.. im amazed that the engine turned over and stuff.. Just enough clearance to not hit anything..
When it happened.. were u skeptical about what happened?? since the engine was turning over and stuff? Were u suprised when you opened her up?

o no not enough clearence at all lol. i need a new block took out about 1 inch at the lower part of the cyl wall.


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## dubbin'0n15s (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: (audis488)*

i shot cyl 2. you can see straight through my block, and bent 3 valves


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## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_Supplementry Question..
Which rod fails the most? #3 cylinder?

yeah i'd like to know because then i would just buy 1 rod to save money.







jk


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## battlewagens87 (Oct 21, 2008)

yeah # 3 in mine just went out 7psi to much fuel... POP


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## SlyTDI (May 5, 2005)

I have just finished putting on a Turbonetics T3/T4 50 trim on my 2002 1.8T Jetta.

I have a maffless file with 550cc injectors and a 4 bar fuel pressure regulator and I run 93 octane.

I have a factory stock bottom end and won't be able to upgrade to better rods till summer time.

Meanwhile, what kind of boost or whp could I run that would be safe until then? I've got it set at 9 psi right now.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Not A VW..but interesting none the less.

Very well built SBC used for Autocross, Hillclimbs and Track Days. Rod bolt ( ARP ) let go at 7,000 RPM on a Track day.

Only things salvaged from short block were, Edlebrock 2 piece timing cover, Fluid Damper and Stewart water pump. Everything else in block was unusable...including the $500 Canton Road Race pan and custom ground billet steel camshaft.

Top end required all new pushrods ( 3 bent and trash in everything ), full set of Roller lifters, 1 new Comp cams SS Roller Rocker Arm, and 3 Manley SS valves. 

Total price to rebuild engine...$7,000 Ouch!! ( About $5,500 in parts and $1500 machine work. Assembly was done in house )

Edit: First two pictures are a few of the parts we found OUTSIDE the engine block!!


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)




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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

hear a tick tick noise from your motor you cant resolve?
customer car,... 302bhp/286lbft (*flywheel figures)

I was unhappy at the ticking noise so pulled the sump..
found this sat there starting at us.. doh!









then this...









with some light damage to the piston skirt


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

so much carnage in this thread!


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

VWAUDITEK said:


> (bites nails),going strong here ,ATC motor,stock block,daily 350+whp,300+tq.,dynoed 401 whp.....30k BT..........(bites nails).....haha. Running 100+ octane daily however,that helps.


my numbers on stock block in the sig on a 100F day after 6 runs non stop, was heat soaken bad and injectors maxed out @20psi (....bites nails....)


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Haven't killed my vw yet, but I did punch a hole ito the side of my dodge pickup a few years back. Broke 2 rods with onegoing clean through the block of my 360ci v8. Nitrous can be a biatch off the line is all I can say.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

18Lturbo said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *footose_reloaded* »_I bent all 4 rods
> 2003 AWP 1.8T
> t3/t4 .63 a/r.. 303whp.
> 
> Now im scared!!!! what did you do? WG line fell off? I would understand a .48 - a little too much torque spike. I'm currently building that exact setup!


damn i ran mine all the way upwards 30+ psi on accident when wg line fell off


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

codergfx said:


> damn i ran mine all the way upwards 30+ psi on accident when wg line fell off


i hit 30 psi once


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

transient_analysis said:


> as a point of comparison, I've been running puss boost (17psi) with a t3/t4 .63 for 80k miles and still have straight stock rods...
> granted most of that mileage is on the freeway, but I still beat on the car at least once a day..
> I've never tried 100oct, or upped the boost past 20psi (well, on purpose at least)
> Sorry to all those with rod disfunction


Not bad not bad


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

It would be interesting to build a weibull distribution for failed 19mm rods versus previously dyno'd torque.... 

Similar to this:


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> It would be interesting to build a weibull distribution for failed 19mm rods versus previously dyno'd torque....
> 
> Similar to this:


it would be aha get on it pete :beer:


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## createddeleted (Sep 24, 2008)

I would like to thank everyone in this thread for posting. Before I thought OH, you know 300hp low boost will do until I have enough cash to build it all. But no. I'm buying rods. I'd rather rip down the block again if I need to go back and build it up more rather than having to buy a new block.

I'm buying rods _soon_.:beer:


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## Grahams81 (May 10, 2011)

I bought my car with a knackered engine, turned out to be a smashed rod, never went through the block but did smash a rib on the inside and crack running through the block.

Engine was standard (AUQ), as was the car no tuning (i'm good friends with the original owner) 
Happened @ 150,000 miles pulling away at low rpm.... 


























Engine still ran but it was a bit rough !!!


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ holy $hit


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Grahams81 said:


> I bought my car with a knackered engine, turned out to be a smashed rod, never went through the block but did smash a rib on the inside and crack running through the block.
> 
> Engine was standard (AUQ), as was the car no tuning (i'm good friends with the original owner)
> Happened @ 150,000 miles pulling away at low rpm....
> ...


Damn...


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

thank god machines don't feel pain :facepalm:


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Big_Tom said:


> thank god machines don't feel pain :facepalm:


Yea thankgod!


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

talked to cassidy earlier about ordering some goodies so when I tear mine apart we shall see if it will go in here


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## 2.0t mk2 (Dec 23, 2007)

T3/4 50trim .48ar 870cc inj 22psi 320whp 298wtq stock block maybe 600mi.... so far still in one pice... since dyno I turned boost down to 19psi... my daily needs some maintenance work then rods


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## steve-o 16v GLI (Jun 26, 2005)

Stock turbo audi tt 225. Only had intake exhaust and a diode running 18psi. The wot box did the trick though. Bent #1 cyl rod and two valves. 

My old mk3 1.8t took 40k of the ko3 at 20+ psi and about 20k with the cts bt kit at 20psi. And the motors still running in another guys car now.


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## B5asspat (Dec 31, 2011)

didn't break a rod, but I bent one so bad it ruined the pin that connects it to the piston, and ruined the piston from excess lateral movement. Gotta be super careful on them BTs

mk4 jetta gt3071r average boost of 18psi


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## 2.0t mk2 (Dec 23, 2007)

steve-o 16v GLI said:


> Stock turbo audi tt 225. Only had intake exhaust and a diode running 18psi. The wot box did the trick though. Bent #1 cyl rod and two valves.
> 
> My old mk3 1.8t took 40k of the ko3 at 20+ psi and about 20k with the cts bt kit at 20psi. And the motors still running in another guys car now.


what turbo and psi on the CTS kit?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

F4T with a no boost control on stock block


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

good god Groggory


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> good god Groggory


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## kastashado (Apr 4, 2008)

*yup hydrolocked*



loxxrider said:


> i know its not what u were looking for, but hydrolock!!!!


 yeah I hydro'd my engine two weeks ago....****ing florida rain. My dumb ass didn't have a purge on my CAI and when I went to leave for work, water had alread pooled inside my cai. The water level went down around my car but I never thought to check to see of there was water in the intake when I left. Sucked a ****load into the engine...stalled out. I restarted and drove 50 feet before the engine seized. I bent my rods, blew my gaskets and turned my engine into a giant milkshake. This all on a stock turbo running Revo Stage 2 software with minimal mods (turboback exhaust, 4 bar fpr, CAI, Strat DV, and Eiback Pro Street S coilovers). 
The silver lining....my insurance is paying for a refabbed motor. 
Now I just have to find out how much HP the internals can handle and upgrade my turbo, lol.


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