# Location and access to 'right plenum chamber' fusebox [add to TOC]



## jk427.1 (Dec 17, 2009)

*Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues.*

Gentlemen,
My name is John I own a 2004 Phaeton. I purchased the vehicle 2 ½ years ago and I love it. I am unfortunately having a big issue with the car. It all started about 5 months ago I was in Denver CO about 55 miles from my home in Fort Collins, when while driving I got the brake stop vehicle , running gear workshop, check engine light, flashing brake light. I pulled off to the side and put the vehicle into park and turned the ignition off. Restarted the vehicle all warnings returned and I could not get the vehicle out of park. I had the vehicle towed to the nearest VW dealer where they replace the tiptronc shift housing due to a broken tab. $2200.00 and 4 ½ months later the problem returned. Good news was that it happened in front of my house. After a little internet search I found this forum and some good advice on some things I could check myself. I had not started the car for 24 hours when I went to start it I could shift it out of park and all but the check engine light went out. I checked the battery voltage right side 12.4 left side 11.9. In other posts there was a lot of mention of the battery management controller part number ending in A or B having issues. I checked my controller and it was an “A”. I proceeded to order then replace it with a “C” unit. As I was looking at the TSB posted that described replacing the controller it did not mention anything about coding or programming. After I replaced and road tested the vehicle the next morning I tested the batteries, right at 12.7 left at 12.5. I thought the problems were solved! The next morning the same issues are here again. Four days later and I still can’t get it out of park. Any suggestions would be great?

Thanks 
John


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (jk427.1)*

John,
First and foremost, welcome to the Forum!
I'm sorry to hear of your woes regarding the car.
Based on what you've mentioned so far, the voltages are way way too low in both batteries. I know that before I traded mine in, the batteries were near enough to needing replacement as to not really matter. An '04 is probably close to six years old, based on build date, and that would be the outside life for any battery.
Make sure you get appropriate replacements. If this is something you feel comfortable doing on your own then, at minimum, buy the VW parts. As you've found out, the Phaeton is very persnickety when it doesn't get enough juice. The most conservative (and least expensive) route at this point would be to replace both on-board power supply and starter batteries.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (chrisj428)*

Hi John:
Welcome to the forum.
Chris is pretty much dead-on target with his advice - the cause of your problems is almost certainly low voltage on one or both batteries.
If you would like to confirm this prior to forking out the money to buy two genuine VW batteries (please, don't get substitute aftermarket ones, they just don't work satisfactorily), you can purchase a battery charger for about $50, plug the charger in overnight (connected to the left battery), and then see if your problems disappear the following day. If they do, then the next step is to check the age of the battery - the month and year of production is stamped into the top of one of the battery posts - and if the battery is more than 5 years old, replace the thing.
There is a very good post in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category) entitled Purchasing and using a Battery Maintainer for your Phaeton  that will show you exactly the type of charger you need to get. You need one that can charge an AGM (absorbed glass mat) battery.
While you are there, bookmark the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category) and spend a few hours reading through the posts there when you have the time - doing that will save you thousands of dollars of service and repair costs.
Michael


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## jk427.1 (Dec 17, 2009)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (PanEuropean)*

Chris and Micheal 
Thanks for the advise I'll be sure to charge the batteries. I do have a question though does the left side battery control the electronics related to the engine e.g. the transmission , brakes... Or is it on the circuit for the right side battery? Also do know if there is a transmission shift lock over ride release? I would like to push the vehicle into a better location at my house. I did check the battery dates the left battery was replaced in 1/07 and the right is original manufacture date of early 04, all battery's are V.W. O.E.M parts.
Regards,
John


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## jk427.1 (Dec 17, 2009)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (jk427.1)*

Chris/Micheal,
I pulled the codes for the Phaeton courtesy of a friend that let me borrow his vag com. I cleared the codes then started the engine, rescanned and here is what I have. Any help? Data Bus? The battery's have been on 2 separate AGM battery chargers all day. 
Thanks
John
Wednesday,30,December,2009,16:53:20:35290
VCDS Version: Release 908.1
Data version: 20091018

Chassis Type: 3D - VW Phaeton D1
Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 07 08 09 11 13 15 16 17 18 19 23 27 28 29 2E
34 36 37 38 39 46 47 55 56 57 65 66 68 69 71 75 76 77

VIN: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Mileage: 104480km/64920miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 4D0-907-560-BGH.lbl
Part No SW: 4D0 907 560 CS HW: 8E0 907 560 
Component: 4.2L V8/5V G 0030 
Coding: 0007873
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
3 Faults Found:
18036 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from Steering Angle Sensor 
P1628 - 008 - Implausible Signal
18034 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from TCU 
P1626 - 008 - Implausible Signal
18057 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from ABS Controller 
P1649 - 008 - Implausible Signal
Readiness: 0110 1101
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 06: Seat Mem. Pass Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 07: Control Head Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 3D0 920 981 A
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB4 0318 
Coding: 0007221
Shop #: WSC 20111 444 00205
No Faults Found
or DTCs not supported by controller
or a communication error occurred
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901 
Component: Gateway K<>CAN 0101 
Coding: 0000006
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
4 Faults Found:
00778 - Steering Angle Sensor (G85) 
004 - No Signal/Communication
01310 - Level Control System Control Module (J197) 
004 - No Signal/Communication
01315 - Transmission Control Module 
004 - No Signal/Communication
01316 - ABS Control Module 
004 - No Signal/Communication
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 29: Left Light Labels: 3D0-909-157.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 157 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l) X012 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
No Faults Found
or DTCs not supported by controller
or a communication error occurred
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 38: Roof Electronics Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 39: Right Light Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 933 E
Component: 4D HSG 3211 
Coding: 0000034
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
Part No: 3D1 959 701 D
Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 0104
Part No: 3D1 959 702 D
Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 0104
Part No: 3D0 959 703 D
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 0104
Part No: 3D0 959 704 D
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 0104
Part No: 7L0 907 719 
Component: Neigungssensor 0020
2 Faults Found:
00576 - Terminal 15 
008 - Implausible Signal
01312 - Powertrain Data Bus 
013 - Check DTC Memory
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 65: Tire Pressure Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 68: Wiper Electr. Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 71: Battery Charger Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 75: Telematics Labels: 
Note: Excessive Comm Errors

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (jk427.1)*

Not an expert on this but with codes indicating a failure in so many systems simultaneously, experience in this forum indicates either worn out batteries or bad controller. Start with new batteries.
If I understand correctly, the right hand battery is never used for any purpose unless the primary battery fails. However, because of the probable electronics gymnastics needed to keep both batteries nicely charged, I would speculate that failure of the right hand battery probably throws off the other one for a loop —and therefore the whole system.


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## jk427.1 (Dec 17, 2009)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (Itzmann)*

Gents,
Does anyone know where I might find diagrams that would show locations of control units and the designation of the fuse panels such as SB,SC. 
Thanks 
John


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (jk427.1)*

Here.


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## jk427.1 (Dec 17, 2009)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (PanEuropean)*

Thank you Michael.
With these diagrams I was able to locate no power to a line of fuses for the problem areas. The problem seems to be in a power supply to fuses 60 to 72 in the B panel under steering wheel. Not exact on those numbers, sorry I didn't write it down. It seems these are powered by relay J329. I have ripped the car apart looking for this relay, seats, carpets, plenum covers, removed the panel C in the trunk and I just can't locate this darn relay! I would be very grateful for any help on this.
Does anybody know where this relay resides. 
Again thanks for all the help. 
John.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (jk427.1)*

Hi John:
Geez, it's right under your nose (almost literally - for sure, it's right under your front seat passenger's nose). In the electronics box, under the plenum chamber on the right side of the car - under the hood. It's even got '433' written on it, which is German for J329.
Really, John, are you some kind of noob? I mean, everyone knows where the J329 relay is...






















_(I hope you recognize that I am kidding you - it took me an hour to find this friggin' relay)_
Anyway... I don't recommend that you go digging into that electronics box as your first troubleshooting step, because it is a massive PITA to get access to that box. Instead, look at the wiring diagrams that I am going to post for you in the next post, and then follow the sequence of actions below:
*1)* Check continuity of fuse S205 (rear of car, forward and above the left battery, in a small black plastic box about 3 inches square. See the illustration in the PDF package and the photos further down - that will show you where this fuse is).
*2)* Check continuity of fuse SD 26 (in the electronics box pictured below).
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 12:21 AM 1-13-2010_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (PanEuropean)*

Here's the PDF package I assembled - this will help you figure out how power supply to the J329 works.
The best you can hope for is that you find a blown fuse SD26. But, I am worried that you are going to find water damage in that electronics box in the plenum area. Have a look at this post, it will tell you how to get access to that electronics box: Water in Front Footwell (Cleaning Air Intake Plenum and Sunroof Drains).
I suggest you set aside at least a half a day for this work. I also recommend that you do it inside (where it is not cold), and you make sure you have a nice bright worklight available... working in that aft passenger side corner under the hood is like trying to find a black cat in a coal mine in the dark.
Be VERY gentle and careful when you remove the cover from the electronics box. It is easy to break the clip that retains the cover in the closed position. So, don't force it.
It would make great sense to also clean out the sumps of the two air intake plenums (as explained in the sunroof post) at the same time you are in there digging around. A vacuum cleaner with a long thin nozzle will make the job a lot easier.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (PanEuropean)*

John:
In case you think I am nuts posting a link to a discussion about how to clean sunroof and air intake drains (in response to your question about electrical headaches) - the photo below shows the driver side of the air intake plenum (you will also see this photo at the link I posted above). The photo *ABOVE *of the electronics box is the mirror image of the air intake plenum, but on the passenger side of the car.
In other words, that electronics box sits at the top of the passenger side air intake plenum. It will probably have a fair amount of debris (plant matter) on it. BEFORE you take the cover off the electronics box, but AFTER you vacumn out the area below it, take a garden hose to that whole area and flush it out really well. Get in there with a bucket of hot soapy water and clean everything out until you can see the hot soapy water running out of the bottom of the car - unobstructed.
The reason I recommend all this is because I kinda, sorta have a feeling (99% confidence) that your electrical problems are arising due to water backup in that plenum, and the water backup is usually caused by leaf and pine needle debris at the bottom of the plenum.
Michael
*The opposite side of the car - same view as photo above*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (PanEuropean)*

Finally:
Hopefully, you will not have to remove the black plastic trim strip that runs across the bottom of the windshield in order to get access to the electronics box. But... there is a slight risk that you might have to do this.
If that turns out to be the case, refer to the instructions here: 
How to remove the Plenum Chamber Cover (pictures).
The car *must *be at room temperature (in a heated garage, overnight) before you even THINK about removing this particular trim strip. Protect the windshield with a large, thick blanket before you begin work.
Below is an illustration that shows where your electronics box with the J329 and SD series of fuses is.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (PanEuropean)*

These instructions are not turning out to be posted in the order in which you should do the work - only because I keep on finding more pitfalls (concerning access and disassembly) as I look at this.
To get access to that S205 fuse, first you need to remove the large relay panel above the main battery (see here for instructions, however, note that the instructions begin about 2/3 of the way down the page, starting with my post of 4:50 PM 6-28-2006: J367 Battery Monitoring Controller Replacement (Includes RVU TB 27-06-02). Hopefull your VW technician did not break this part when he/she removed it to replace the battery monitoring relay.
Next, you have to remove the battery paralleling relay which is directly aft of the fusebox. It is held in place by two bolts that are 'captive bolts' - in other words, you turn the bolts counter-clockwise about 4 turns, that should be enough. The bolts won't actually come loose from the tangs on the top and bottom of the paralleling relay.
Once you have moved the paralleling relay out of the way, you can then get access to the fusebox containing the two huge S series fuses.
Michael
*PS:* This is quite heavy-duty DIY work for a new owner, by the way.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (PanEuropean)*

Once you have removed the fuse and relay panel, you then have to remove the battery paralleling relay. It is held in place by two captive NUTS, not bolts (my typo in the post above). They are 10 or 11 mm nuts. You will need an extension shaft on your socket wrench. If you have a socket with a knuckle at the end, so much the better, because you won't be able to get perpendicular access to the upper nut - best you will manage is about an 80 degree angle.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (PanEuropean)*

Once you have loosened these nuts, just manhandle the battery paralleling relay out of the way. It has a pretty thick cable (1 cm) on it, so don't be shy about reefing on it to get it off the two studs.
You can see the two studs in the background.
By the way - disconnect the NEGATIVE terminal from *both *batteries before you begin any of this work. Otherwise, I promise you, your watch-strap, socket wrench, or screwdriver will wind up hitting the positive terminal of the left battery, and you will then find out the true meaning of "fire and brimstone". Seriously - this is a critical safety measure. The car will be pissed off that you have disconnected the power, but the consequences are not severe - you just have to reset the clock, re-adapt the windows, etc. (see here: How to adapt moving components).
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (PanEuropean)*

Finally, if you have made it this far, you can inspect fuse S205.
However... after looking carefully at this photo (I took these photos years ago, when I was dis-assembling my own car) - it might be possible for you to check for continuity on this fuse without doing all the disassembly I just described. Note, in the picture below, how the cable that is fed by S205 exits out the top of that plastic box.
If you could somehow get a probe onto that cable (while the engine was running) you could test for the presence of 12 or 14 volts on that cable without having to pull the relay panel, battery paralleling relay, etc. So, I will leave it to your creativity to come up with a way of CHECKING the fuse. At least you know know how to get access to the fuse if you have to REPLACE the thing.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (PanEuropean)*

Just to follow up further on that idea of 'probing' the cable to determine continuity of S205 - below is a picture I took long ago (for a different purpose) that shows the two cables that exit from the inboard side of that fusebox. The smaller cable in the far upper right corner of the picture - *NOT *the one with what appears to be shrink-wrap around it, but the smaller one above it that appears to be showing a tiny bit of the metal connection on the end - is the one that is fed by S205. So, if you could somehow get a probe onto that metal connection, it would save you a ton of disassembly work. Be sure that the engine is running when you test for power.
Disregard the captions in the photo below, they don't apply to this discussion (that is a recycled photo).
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 12:54 AM 1-13-2010_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (PanEuropean)*

John, one final suggestion:
While you are in that battery compartment on the left side, have a look at the top of the negative post of the battery. There should be a date stamped on it. If the battery is more than 5 years old, replace the thing.
I replaced my left side battery last weekend. It is not pleasant work (you have to take the relay panel out, and remove the battery paralleling relay, before you can re and re the battery itself), and the battery is not cheap, it costs about $200.
But - I have been amazed at the difference that having a new battery makes. All the interior lights are much brighter, the two displays (the one between the speedometer and tachometer, and the big one between the two front seats) are much brighter, and I don't get any more nuisance messages from the car. A reliable supply of electricity is critical for this vehicle, that is why VW put two batteries in it in the first place.
If you do elect to replace the battery, be sure to replace it with a genuine VW battery of the same part number. The VW battery is an AGM battery, and the battery monitoring controller is only designed to work with AGM batteries. You will not get satisfactory results if you put an aftermarket battery in the car, others have learned that the hard way.
Michael


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## jk427.1 (Dec 17, 2009)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (PanEuropean)*

Micheal,
Thank you for relay location information. I apologize for getting back to you so late. I pin-pointed the problem there is a crimp under the bulk head fuse panel where they crimped many wires of various sizes together. I found the very small wire that powers the relay J329 to be broken. This relay coil is grounded by the access/start control module under the drivers seat. When this relay is not active the shift lock, transmission control module, suspension, ABS are inoperative. All of these trigger the check engine light for data bus communication fault. I repaired this, rather that taking the crimp apart I stripped back one of the medium sized wires and soldering the small broken wire together and installed shrink tube. I cleared the code and now the vehicle shifts out of park as designed.
http://i809.photobucket.com/al...40758
http://i809.photobucket.com/al...40870
Sorry some of the pics are blurry.
Thanks again for all of you help!
John


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## ruddyone (Feb 9, 2009)

*FV-QR*

John -
Great work finding that problem. Almost like a needle in a haystack.
Best Regards,
Nate


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Battery managment controller replaced still have electrical issues. (jk427.1)*

Hi John:
Great to hear that you solved the problem - that was superb detective work on your part, and your follow-up post has provided really valuable information for all of us.
I've attached the first of the photos that you took below, that will save others having to click the hyperlinks.
Michael


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## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

Michael/Harry,

I am not getting most of the photos on think string. Is that me or do they need to be rehosted. If the latter, is it possible for that to be done?

PETER M


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Peter:

The most common reason that an *individual *cannot see photos hosted on the forum (or on other bulletin boards) is that the security settings on your browser are set such that they prohibit linking to a site external from the one you are on.

In other words, you are viewing text (posts) made at vwvortex.com, but the pictures are almost always hosted externally (at hostdub.com, or photobucket.com, etc.). If your browser is set to block these redirects, you won't see the photos.

Many "ad-blocking" applications and add-ons work by blocking any media that is external to the site that you are viewing. This means that unless the photo is one that a moderator embedded directly into Vortex, you won't be able to view it.

There are two possible solutions: Turn off the ad-blocker, or, set your browser security settings to permit "third party" images *within *certain websites (e.g. vwvortex.com) or *from *certain websites (e.g. hostdub.com, or photobucket.com).

Michael


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## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

Michael,

Thanks, much appreciated, I will work through that.

PETER M


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