# APR Presents the 2.5 TFSI TT RS Stage III Turbocharger System!



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

APR is pleased to present the TT RS 2.5 TFSI Stage III GTX Turbocharger System!










*Product Page* 

In the 1980s, an iconic legend was born as the world fell in love with Audi's 5-cylinder engine's unmistakable and intoxicating growl. To the Audi enthusiast, the light-weight, compact 5-cylinder engine represented the hallmark of Audi's technical prowess and ability to emotionally captivate an audience with a driving experience unlike any other in its time. Audi's announcement of the return of its 5-cylinder roots via the 2.5 TFSI sent shockwaves across the community and resonated deeply within the hearts and minds of APR's staff. With this creation, Audi spoke directly to every enthusiast and gave APR the unique opportunity to write into Audi's 5-cylinder history books with modern day engineering expertise. 

APR's technical reach has grown enormously since opening in the 1990s and currently represents a force of unmatched _performance without compromise_ within the performance enhancement sector for Audi vehicles. The APR Stage III 2.5 TFSI Turbocharger System is a culmination of roughly two years worth of engineering research, development and motorsport testing unheard of in the market today. With brutal testing on multiple continents, including wins in the prestigious German Tuner GP at the Hockeheim ring, the APR Stage III Turbocharger System is the pinnacle of Audi's German engineering enhanced by APR's American ingenuity. 









_APR Switzerland Wins the German Tuner GP at Hockenheim!_

The APR Stage III Turbocharger System is a turnkey solution designed to expand on the TT RS's already stellar performance by increasing peak horsepower to roughly double that of the European model. Sitting at 665 horsepower and over 560 ft-lbs of torque on high octane fuel, the vehicle's performance is transformed to that of a modern day equivalent of Audi's motorsport 5-cylinder engines of yesteryear. APR's advanced knowledge of engine management combined with an uncompromising selection of premium materials, access to the latest engineering equipment and techniques, as well as a highly educated and capable staff of engineers, resulted in a turbocharger system capable of delivering a truly exhilarating and fulfilling driving experience. 






*Development* 

APR's engineering teams use professional grade tools to aid in development of the APR Stage III Turbocharger System. Through the use of coordinate measuring machines, such as the Creaform 3D laser scanner and FaroArm, spatial constraints within the 2.5 TFSI's engine bay were captured to give APR's engineers a detailed map of their design environment. The 3D laser scanner allows for quick and easy modeling of static hard parts, such as the turbocharger unit. The modeled parts are placed within the mapped engine bay and development on the system begins using PTE's Creo 2 3D CAD software. With such an unforgivingly tight working environment, this data is absolutely necessary to ensure every parts fits as as intended. 

  

Unfortunately an engine bay is not a fixed working environment. Under load the engine mounts allow for movement, ultimately changing and limiting the spatial constraints even further. Before production hardware is created, APR's engineers print each part using an in house sterolithography 3D printer. Fitment is then tested and necessary changes are made before casting the final pieces.

   

Over the entire development period, APR's Calibration and Electrical Engineering teams continued modifying the factory engine management system to provide a smooth and reliable driving experience. Particular attention was paid towards driving characteristics, ultimately increasing the responsiveness of the entire system through the reduction of turbocharger lag. Given that the system operates at such high levels of performance, it's often outside of the scope originally intended by the factory ECU. As a result, APR's Electrical Engineers added patented control strategies to the ECU to enable proper control in all situations. 

  

Success of the system depended greatly upon the results of APR's accelerated life testing. APR's in-house TT RS as well as select APR Importers' vehicles from across the globe were chosen for their locations in harsh environments. From the Swiss Alps to the South African deserts, APR's engineers spent over a year collecting data through normal daily driving and grueling motorsport events. As new design requirements arose during testing, changes were made and testing continued. The end result is an extremely powerful, yet reliable turbocharger system worthy of APR's stamp of approval. 

    

More than a year before release, APR gave The Drive Network's Matt Farah access to the vehicle for early developmental feedback. At the time, the vehicle was producing less power than available today, but still offered a thrilling experience. See what Matt had to say in the video below.






*APR Stage III GTX Components*

*Turbocharger*

 

At the heart of the APR Stage III GTX Turbocharger System is a GTX3576R turbocharger, utilizing the latest technologies from Le Mans winning turbo manufacturer, Garrett Honeywell. The turbo features a fully-machined, eleven-blade billet compressor wheel and a dual ball bearing oil and water-cooled CHRA. APR's Engineers spent countless hours testing several turbocharger units to arrive at a configuration suitable for their power, reliability and drivability requirements. Testing began with smaller internally gated units and gradually increased over time until a balance was met within all categories. The result is a system that spools quickly with excellent response, even in the lower RPM range, while producing top end power figures beyond that of a Audi R8 LMS Ultra V10 FSI!

Each turbocharger unit is assembled and clocked in-house at APR with the necessary components to ensure proper fitment and orientation for compressor inlet and outlet systems as well as all oil and coolant lines.​*Turbocharger Compressor Cover*

 

The turbocharger is fed through a massive 4-inch ported shroud compressor inlet. This newly developed compressor housing's anti-surge porting greatly complements the spool characteristics of this unit and grants APR's Engineers the ability to deliver massive levels of torque inducing boost pressure, even in the lower RPM range. APR's Engineers enhance the compressor cover by adding an OEM style clampless connection system for the large turbo inlet pipe. This ensures proper orientation of the pipe, ease of installation and a leak free operation. ​*Turbocharger Turbine Housing*



APR's Engineers tested several turbine-housing designs, both internally and externally gated, with a multitude of inlet and outlet styles as well as A/Rs before arriving at the Tial Sport stainless steel vband .63 A/R turbine housing. 

The housing is an investment cast smooth 304L stainless steel design, which offers many benefits over traditional cast iron housings. The design is compact and lightweight, reducing weight by roughly 33% over the typical cast iron counterpart. Furthermore stainless steel features heat retention characteristics, which aid in turbo response by keeping exhaust velocity high. GTVFL3.0 Vband inlet and VBF300M vband outlets completely eliminate the need for exhaust studs, gaskets and bolts to provide a leak-proof sealing surface, all while remaining easy to install.

To aid in reducing temperature under the hood and area surrounding the turbocharger, APR's Engineers modified the turbine housing with Swain Tech's ceramic coating. No other ceramic coating on the market comes close to Swain Tech's proven track record of high mileage, motorsport proven performance and is the industry standard for thermal barriers. ​*Engine Management*



The factory Bosch MED 9 engine management system is responsible for proper operation of the engine in all conditions. With built in compensational data for environmental variables and varying load conditions, the factory ECU is far more complex and intelligent than units found in other vehicle makes and marques.

With the significant amount of changes included in the APR Stage III Turbocharger System, APR's Engineers spent months calibrating the engine management system to operate smoothly as if intended by the OEM. Thanks to APR's incredible proprietary calibration suite, data logging software and full access to the coding structure of the ECU, appropriate and intelligent changes are made to ensure flawless drivability and excellent performance without compromise. When necessary, APR's Electrical Engineers are able to build new coding functions, strategies and routines into the ECU to control conditions normally unseen at factory power levels. 

APR's upcoming EMCS program switching technology puts control of the ECU in your finger tips allowing you to access modes for standard pump fuel, high output race fuel and even reduced output valet modes to protect your vehicle against improper use by other individuals. This technology is patented by APR and is found nowhere else in the world. It's Performance Without Compromise only APR can deliver! ​*Heat Shielding*



To further combat excessive heat generated by producing power levels seen nowhere else in the industry, APR's Engineers paid close attention to heat generated by the turbocharger system under prolonged motorsport use. High quality materials are used throughout the system and critical high heat components are coated with Swain Tech's ceramic thermal barrier. 

APR designed and created a proprietary turbo blanket for the 2.5 TFSI Stage III Turbocharger System to provide an additional level of protection a step beyond thermal coatings. A tightly woven fiber consisting of pulverized volcanic rock houses high temperature rated silica to provide a stronger and more durable heat blanket when compared to many off the shelf solutions. The blanket provides an excellent heat barrier designed to protect surrounding components from excessive heat. 

FireFlex and DEI heat shrouding sleeves are used throughout the system to protect oil and coolant lines as well as other hoses from surrounding high temperature components. Reflect-A-Gold is utilized on the compressor inlet hose to resist higher intake air temperature and additional material is included to protect surrounding components.

With lower under-hood temperatures, oil and coolant temperatures remain low to protect the engine while intake air remains cooler providing more horsepower, even under extremely demanding situations.​*Exhaust Manifold*

 

Attached to the turbocharger is APR's investment-cast, super alloy, nickel-chromium-based Inconel 625 Manifold featuring APR's Sequential Exhaust Pulse runner lengths. Unlike hand welded tubular manifolds, Inconel is a very high temperature resistant material designed to withstand extreme exhaust gas temperature changes without expanding, contracting, melting or cracking under stress. Furthermore, the thick casting material reduces unwanted exhaust noise, leaving behind a powerful and exotic 5-cylinder growl Audi enthusiasts have come to love. This material is typically found only at the highest levels of professional motorsport racing where reliability is essential to success.

To provide smooth and leak-proof operation between the manifold, turbo and external wastegate, APR's exhaust manifold features Vband connection points. This eliminates the need for exhaust studs, nuts and gaskets and introduces an easier install for the end user while increasing overall reliability.

Investment-cast Inconel features heat retention characteristics, which aid in turbo response by keeping the exhaust velocity high. With exhaust gas pulses occurring 144 degrees apart, APR's Engineers designed variable runner lengths calibrated to deliver sequential exhaust pulses without collision. This aids in turbocharger spool, producing excellent response for immediate torque delivery. A reduction in backpressure from the high-flow, collision-free design directly enhances power delivery far beyond that of the OEM turbocharger manifold and other less effective designs. 

Each unit undergoes strict quality control checkpoints to ensure ultimate reliability each step of the manufacturing and treatment process. The unit is CNC machined to tight tolerances and inspected for defects before undergoing thermal treatments at Swain Tech. Swain Tech's world-renowned ceramic material is used to provide a thermal barrier between the manifold and all surrounding components. Through exhausting motorsport-testing APR found this treatment not only necessary for sustained wide-open operation, but also a critical component in reducing intake air temperature for prolonged performance, lap after lap.

The manifold features an EGT bung port for 2.5 TFSI engines featuring an EGT probe and remains capped on models without this OEM component.

All of these characteristics result in a manifold designed without compromise backed by a confidence-inspiring lifetime warranty.​*Wastegate*

 

A wastegate is a valve that provides a means for controlling boost pressure on a turbocharged engine. The unit controls the amount of exhaust gasses passing over the turbine wheel as prescribed by APR's Stage III ECU Software. There are two types of wastegate configurations, internal and external, and each have their own advantages depending on application. With the addition of a massive turbocharger unit, APR's Engineers found external gating necessary.

APR's Stage III Turbocharger System features a compact Tial Sport MV-S 38mm external wastegate with water-cooling and vband connection points. The unit is constantly subjected to extreme temperatures and as such features high temperature based materials for increased life and performance. The addition of water-cooling ensures reduced temperatures under extreme motorsport conditions.

Temperature resistant materials are used throughout the unit as evidenced by the 347 stainless steel housing. The wear resistant racing valve is based on NiCrFe alloys and mates to Nitronic 60 stainless steel valve seats and bushings. The valve is actuated by a high heat resistant 17-7 PH stainless steel spring between a Nomex reinforced silicon diaphragm.

APR treats the housing with Swain Tech's premium ceramic coating to provide a thermal barrier between the wastegate and surrounding components. Each unit's spring pressure is spec'd and set at APR prior to shipping to provide accurate control. Lastly, each unit is fitted with APR's flexible braided stainless steel lines for integration into the turbocharger's water-cooling system via the included multi-ply high-temperature-silicone junction point.​*Turbocharger Compressor Inlet Pipe*



A cast aluminum induction system was created to support the Stage III Turbocharger systems massive airflow requirements without worry of collapsing under extreme conditions. The cast pipe smoothly transitions from the OEM intake connection point down to the turbocharger's 4-inch inlet where it's attached via a clampless OEM style connection. This provides leak proof operation and smooth transitional airflow at all junction points while remaining easy to install and maintaining compatible with OEM and upgraded intake systems.

To combat heat soak, neighboring high temperature items feature a Swain Tech ceramic coating while the compressor inlet pipe is wrapped with Reflect-A-Gold at critical points for additional heat protection. Extreme motorsport testing proved the design to be a success, even after hours of continued use.​*Turbocharger Compressor Outlet Hose*

 

Wire reinforced, multi-ply silicone hoses provide an unrestricted path for airflow existing the turbocharger. The ultra rigid design ensures piping will not swell or collapse causing leaks and restrictions in the charge piping system. The hose is engineered to fit properly into the engine bay with all necessary ports securely affixed.

APR's Easy-Flow Silicone Hose design features stepped mounting surfaces for smooth transitions from one pipe to another. Traditional designs simply sit on top of each other, often resulting in a disruptive airflow path. By using the stepped design, hoses fit properly without airflow restrictions, resulting in the most ideal path for moving air through the system.​*Turbocharger Exhaust Downturn*

 

An investment cast 3” stainless steel downturn provides a smooth and uninterrupted path for exhaust gases existing the turbocharger at high velocity. Vband clamps make install a cinch, providing a leak proof connection point while removing the need for gaskets, studs and nuts. The high temperature resistant stainless steel design increases the components strength without fear of component failure even under the most grueling environments. A port is provided for the OEM primary oxygen sensor and a second Vband connection links the downturn to the rest of the exhaust downpipe system.​*Exhaust Downpipe*

 

APR's 3-inch T304 stainless steel downpipe connects seamlessly to the supplied downturn and is fully compatible with APR's RSC turboback exhaust system, full downpipe, or midpipe exhaust system. Vband clamps make install a cinch, providing a leak proof connection point while removing the need for gaskets, studs and nuts. The wastegate exhaust piping is fed back into the primary exhaust system far away from the turbine as to not disrupt flow. ​*Turbocharger Oil and Coolant Lines*

 

APR's oil and coolant lines are specific to the APR Stage III Turbocharger System and provide years of leak free operation. The lines feature a flexible braided stainless steel construction with CNC mandrel bent hard-lines for specific and clean routing as if intended by the OEM. FireFlex and DEI heat shrouding sleeves _(not pictured above)_ protect the lines from surrounding high temperature components and reduce oil and coolant temperatures typically seen under extreme conditions. A multi-ply silicon junction point provides a means for neatly connecting coolant lines to the factory system. Every detail is important, and APR goes the extra mile to ensure any possible weaknesses are eliminated. ​*High Pressure Fuel Pump*

 

*Sold separately* as a brand new pump or rebuild of the engine's existing pump, the APR High Pressure Fuel Pump addresses fueling needs and leaves plenty of headroom for safety and further increased power levels in the future. By increasing the pump's internal capacity, the fueling system is capable of displacing a higher volume of fuel per minute at every RPM. Read More on our High Pressure Fuel Pump Product Page.​*Install Hardware*



APR doesn't cut corners even with the most mundane details of the kit. Every nut, bolt, washer, clamp and gasket necessary for the install is included with the kit. ​*Spark Plugs*

 

Included with each kit are five Denso Iridium IKH24 (5346) spark plugs designed to operate properly and resist knock under the extreme cylinder pressures produced in the APR Stage III Turbocharger System. ​
*Power Figures*


*93 Octane*










*100 Octane*










*More Graphs:*



 Crank - 91 Octane
 Crank - 93 Octane
 Crank - 100 Octane
 Wheel - 91 Octane
 Wheel - 93 Octane
 Wheel - 100 Octane


*APR Stage III GTX ECU Upgrade Calibration Report*

*Stock - As Reported by Audi*
335 - 355 HP 
332 - 342 FT-LBS
Speed Limited
6,800 RPM Redline​
*Stock as Measured by APR (US Spec Vehicle)*
374 HP 
361 FT-LBS
Speed Limited
6,800 RPM Redline​
*APR Stage III - 91 (R+M)/2 Fuel or 95 RON*
518 HP 
484 FT-LBS 
+138 @ HP 6,750 RPM 
+137 FT-LBS @ 4,500 RPM 
Speed Limter Removed
7,300 RPM Redline​
*APR Stage III - 93 (R+M)/2 Fuel or 95 RON*
553 HP
526 FT-LBS 
+182 @ HP 6,750 RPM 
+137 FT-LBS @ 4,500 RPM 
Speed Limter Removed
7,300 RPM Redline​
*APR Stage III - 100 (R+M)/2 Fuel or 95 RON*
665 HP 
561 FT-LBS 
+283 HP @ 6,750 RPM 
+137 FT-LBS @ 4,500 RPM 
Speed Limter Removed
7,300 RPM Redline​ 

*Acceleration Testing*
_Stage III PBox acceleration data collected on the same day and same stretch of airport runway at full vehicle weight with ESP enabled and a 6MT manual transmission._







*60-120 MPH*
11.20 sec - Stock
6.89 sec - APR Stage III 93 Octane
6.04 sec - APR Stage III 100 Octane​ 
*62-124 MPH*
7.39 sec - APR Stage III 93 Octane
6.46 sec - APR Stage III 100 Octane​ 
*100-200 KPH*
7.43 sec - APR Stage III 93 Octane
6.49 sec - APR Stage III 100 Octane​ 
*60-130 MPH*
14.90 sec - Stock
8.94 sec - APR Stage III 93 Octane
7.80 sec - APR Stage III 100 Octane​
*30-130 MPH*
17.70 sec - Stock
11.00 sec - APR Stage III 93 Octane
9.75 sec - APR Stage III 100 Octane​
*Application Guide*
_Existing APR software customers will receive a fully loaded ECU when it becomes available. New customers will receive one program and may purchase additional programs à la carte. Please check for EMCS availability._

Audi TT RS - 6 Manual - APR Stage III (Including Software) - T3100050 - $12,999.99
Audi TT RS - S-Tronic - APR Stage III (Including Software) - _To Be Announced_

*Stage III GTX Required Components and Recommendations (Sold Separately)*

*APR High Pressure Fuel Pump*


The APR HPFP expands the 2.5 TFSI's direct injection fueling capabilities to the levels required for proper operation with the APR Stage III Turbocharger System. The pump is offered in two forms. A entirely new pump can be purchased, or the vehicle's existing pump can be sent to APR for a rebuild.



Product Page: APR HPFP


*APR Exhaust Midpipe*


The APR Midpipe Exhaust System connects the included exhaust downturn and downpipe to the factory catback exhaust system or APR RSC Catback Exhaust System. This part is only necessary if the vehicle is not currently equipped with an APR Downpipe Exhaust System or APR RSC Turboback Exhaust System.



Product Page: APR RSC Exhaust


*APR Intercooler System*


The APR Intercooler System is a necessary upgrade for the system to run safely and to meet the advertised power levels. The factory intercooler shows signs of weakness on a completely stock 2.5 TFSI and as such is not capable of supporting the APR Stage III Turbocharger System's power levels. 



Product Page: APR Intercooler




*Exhaust:* APR recommends the APR RSC Catback Exhaust System.
*Intake:* APR recommends the VWR Intake System.
*Clutch:* APR recommends the Sachs Clutch System. An upgraded clutch is necessary for manual transmission vehicles.
*Internals:* APR recommends upgraded connecting rods when running race fuel calibration modes for increased reliability.
*Fluids and Lubricants:* APR recommends Motul Fluids and Lubricants.
 

*Motul Oil, Coolant and Oil Filter*

Part of the APR Turbocharger System install process requires removal of the OEM Turbocharger. During this process, oil and coolant must be drained and should be replaced to offer superior performance and protection. The APR Turbocharger Systems are now complete turn key solutions, including everything you need down to the oil, coolant and oil filter. During checkout you'll be given the option between Motul Specific 502.00, 505.00 & 505.01 5W40 or Motul Power 300V engine oil as well as Motul Inugel Optimal Ultra Coolant and an OEM oil filter. The Premium Motul lubricant package is included at a much lower than retail price point and the costs are listed below.

*Motul Specific Lubricant Install Package*


10 Liters of Motul Specific 505.01, 502.00 & 505.00 SAE 5w40 Oil, Oil Filter & 4 Liters of Inugel Optimal Ultra (Concentrated) - Organic MO00013 $95.00

*Motul 300V Lubricant Install Package*


10 Liters of Motul 300V Power 5W40, Oil Filter & 4 Liters of Inugel Optimal Ultra (Concentrated) - Organic MO00014 $135.00

*Where to Buy?*

To find an APR Representative near you, please use our Dealer Locator Tool. If a dealer is not in your area, please visit our Product Page for ordering information.


----------



## BlackRabbit34 (Jun 2, 2007)

Time to sell the R....


----------



## BrownBear (Feb 1, 2012)

BlackRabbit34 said:


> Time to sell the R....


My thoughts exactly


----------



## dubbinitmk6 (Oct 26, 2010)

Time to sell a kidney


----------



## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

How about an ETA for a clutch to hold the 550+HP? No way the stock clutches are going to last long with aggressive driving.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

hightechrdn said:


> How about an ETA for a clutch to hold the 550+HP? No way the stock clutches are going to last long with aggressive driving.


In stock, ready to ship! Check the release text under required and recommended parts. I include a link to this bad boy from Sachs.

http://www.goapr.com/products/sachs_clutch_25tfsi.html


----------



## croman44 (Jan 9, 2013)

Am I the only one disappointed in the numbers it's creating?

Using 93 gas it is only +32 TQ and +110 HP at the wheel more than the Stage 2. For the low low cost of about 20k if you add in the cost of the kit, clutch, intercooler, HPFP plus install (prob more like 22K)

So if we just say 20K, that is roughly +2 TQ and +5 HP per $1000


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Well, that's reality for yah. If you want this much power, it simply costs quite a bit to do it right. If we had e85 or other high octane fuel, we could keep adding more and more cylinder pressure and make gobs more power.

Remember, 2.5l, 5 cylinder engine. Tiny. Not so many cylinders. This is actually impressive. I have .5 more liters and one more cylinder in my Audi and I'm not making anywhere near this power, especially on race fuel.

On the bright side, the big 4.2l v8 with a big supercharger is only putting down about 500 wheel for more money. Not that it matters but I'm jealous and upset I don't have the 2.5TFSI.


----------



## croman44 (Jan 9, 2013)

Don't get me wrong, I think for a 5-cylinder it is awesome. Just on a personal stance, I would find it hard to justify that much money for that gain.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

*If it makes it easier to swallow we are offering free install on the turbo kit for a limited time. That alone could be a huge savings some.*


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

croman44 said:


> Don't get me wrong, I think for a 5-cylinder it is awesome. Just on a personal stance, I would find it hard to justify that much money for that gain.


I hear yah. If you justify it (don't drive it if you don't want to justify it!!) we're here!


----------



## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

At what point are you over the edge on the design limitations on the engine. That's 260hp per liter it's not a F1 motor . Not to mention the rest of the power-train that wasn't designed for 650hp. Like the haldex, + half shafts , trans ect. I'm sure it's a rocket but rockets burn up fast. Not trying to be negative just talking from modding experience . Just my opinion. Carl


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

carl44 said:


> At what point are you over the edge on the design limitations on the engine. That's 260hp per liter it's not a F1 motor . Not to mention the rest of the power-train that wasn't designed for 650hp. Like the haldex, + half shafts , trans ect. I'm sure it's a rocket but rockets burn up fast. Not trying to be negative just talking from modding experience . Just my opinion. Carl


Most modern engines and drivetrains especially the Germans are severely over engineered. Not much different then a 2.0t engine wise that makes well over 200hp/ltr. 

Drivetrain wise alot of the stuff is very similar in design to the other Vw based haldex cars(ex R32) where the trans and awd system is pretty well known for taking 600hp+ and the RS drivetrain stuff is def "beefier" then it's predecessors


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

carl44 said:


> At what point are you over the edge on the design limitations on the engine. That's 260hp per liter it's not a F1 motor . Not to mention the rest of the power-train that wasn't designed for 650hp. Like the haldex, + half shafts , trans ect. I'm sure it's a rocket but rockets burn up fast. Not trying to be negative just talking from modding experience . Just my opinion. Carl


Who knows? Not there yet! We've even pumped 40 psi through the engine without bending the stock rods (not that we suggest doing so!).

We have several cars running around the world without issue, and did so over a year before launch.

We have many hours of continuous motorsport use on race fuel with stock rods without issue.

We won the European GP on an independent importer's vehicle with little support. Sessions were 2 hours at a time of nearly wide open throttle.

We've won high altitude motorsport events again with little home base support necessary.

We've blasted our own kit daily for years without issue, including track days in unforgiving environments. 

So, who knows? We haven't figured out the limit yet. That's not to say we will not recommend based on being conservative for our customer base.


----------



## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Fantastic to see the official release.
Great write up,answers all the questions that get asked around the world in forums,that will save a lot of typing.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

carl44 said:


> At what point are you over the edge on the design limitations on the engine. That's 260hp per liter it's not a F1 motor . Not to mention the rest of the power-train that wasn't designed for 650hp. Like the haldex, + half shafts , trans ect. I'm sure it's a rocket but rockets burn up fast. Not trying to be negative just talking from modding experience . Just my opinion. Carl


its like video card pricing, the best video card is 5% faster than the 2nd best video card right now, but it costs twice the price 

cpus etc etc everything is like this, if something is the best there is no ceiling for it's price


----------



## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

I'm not a stage III type of guy but this is a seriously impressive bit of engineering! Congrats to APR for going the distance!:thumbup:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Bucket List


TT-RS w/ Stage III turbo kit.


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

:thumbup:


----------



## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

Good job APR! Thanks for making this quality kit. I think we were reasonably expecting about a 3k premium over your other kits. I know you feel TT RS owners have a different budget, but can you tell us where the extra $7k of value is versus a comparable inline engine turbo kit like the one for the TTS?


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

CarbonRS said:


> Good job APR! Thanks for making this quality kit. I think we were reasonably expecting about a 3k premium over your other kits. I know you feel TT RS owners have a different budget, but can you tell us where the extra $7k of value is versus a comparable inline engine turbo kit like the one for the TTS?


You have a much more limited run being the key factor. It doesnt seem like that big of a deal but keep in mind a majority of the 4cyl components are interchangeable from FSI/TSI/FWD/AWD. The 4cyl kits probably sell 1000/yr easily worldwide. As far as I know everything in this kit is only for an RS.

Aside the quantity factor you have the follow just on a one to one comparison:
More expensive manifold
More expensive turbo
added external waste gate
more expensive inlet(I would assume versus silicone)
more expensive downpipe
etc
etc

I agree its crazy money, I know on personal level I could never get one(my wife would flip her lid) but when you have an expensive, fairly rare car you gotta pay to play.

I think its possible if the kit sells good in quantity there is always a chance of price coming down it APR can produce them in more quantity but only time will tell that. And since the RS is done its a longshot.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

Black BeauTTy said:


> I'm not a stage III type of guy but this is a seriously impressive bit of engineering! Congrats to APR for going the distance!:thumbup:


If you drive one I think you will be. Kind of like a regular TT owner saying he doesn't need an RS :laugh:


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

CarbonRS said:


> Good job APR! Thanks for making this quality kit. I think we were reasonably expecting about a 3k premium over your other kits. I know you feel TT RS owners have a different budget, but can you tell us where the extra $7k of value is versus a comparable inline engine turbo kit like the one for the TTS?


While you may have expected a premium, without knowing the kits cost, figuring the premium is rather impossible. What if I told you our cost to produce the kit (No R&D included) was more than what our other kits sell for, retail?

Anyways, here are a couple things adding to the cost:



Our R&D vehicle was more than double the cost of our other R&D vehicles.
R&D has taken place over roughly 2 years and was the most expensive to date.
Tooling charges (making molds for the hard parts) are expensive, especially when parts are complex. This cost is difficult to recoupe given low production runs. 
This is a low production run, increasing our kit's cost due to low production volumes - Remember this fits 1 vehicle, not 20 like FSI/TSI systems.
The manifold is extremely complex and as such extremely expensive compared to our other kits, especially in low quantities.
The manifold has more material being larger with an extra runner. Inconel is not cheap.
Material wall thicknesses are greater on some components, adding to the cost.
We include ceramic coatings and other heat shielding material not found in other kits, increasing cost and shipping.
All lines are custom braided stainless steel. They are more expensive to produce but are better.
There are more stainless steel lines than any other kit thanks to the water cooled external wastegate.
The inlet is cast & machined vs silicon.
We include an external name brand water cooled wastegate which is much more expensive than an internal gate, but was necessary as discovered during testing.
The downpipe is more complex than any other system and takes longer to build. It also includes a wastegate pipe. 
All exhaust connection points are V-Band, which is expensive. 
The HPFP is far lower volume than our other HPFP in which we've sold thousands. Per part cost is expensive and assembly is labor intensive. 
The turbo is larger than any other turbo we sell. It's also more expensive. 
Some parts come assembled and clocked. A labor intensive and longer process including more parts than other kits. 
The compressor housing is larger and more expensive.
The turbine housing is of a stainless steel design, and more expensive than other kits.
The ECU software was far more complex than other systems as we're operating at performance levels far out side of the scope originally intended by the ECU. As such, development hours are massive in comparison to other systems. Time is money.


Hope that helps. The system isn't for everyone and yes, it's costly. That's what it costs to add this much power and to do it reliably with high quality components, support and matching software, especially on an extremely low volume vehicle. 

:thumbup:


----------



## i0n (Oct 29, 2012)

croman44 said:


> Am I the only one disappointed in the numbers it's creating?
> 
> Using 93 gas it is only +32 TQ and +110 HP at the wheel more than the Stage 2. For the low low cost of about 20k if you add in the cost of the kit, clutch, intercooler, HPFP plus install (prob more like 22K)
> 
> So if we just say 20K, that is roughly +2 TQ and +5 HP per $1000


It seems to me that they're even closer than that. I roughly pulled the data from the curves posted on APR's website and plotted stage 2 against stage 3, as well as computed the average horsepower and torque numbers, because, in my opinion, averages or area under the curve (when taken over the same RPM range) better represent a car's straight-line speed.




On 93 octane, my numbers show identical torque and only +23 HP for stage 3 over stage 2. I think in a drag race the stage 3 and stage 2 cars would be quite close. On the track, I think the winning car would depend heavily on the layout of the track.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

i0n said:


> On 93 octane, my numbers show identical torque and only +23 HP for stage 3 over stage 2. I think in a drag race the stage 3 and stage 2 cars would be quite close. On the track, I think the winning car would depend heavily on the layout of the track.


I agree that the area under the curve is the important part. You've missed an important detail though:
The transmission.

If you limit your range to 4k-redline (which is where a driver will usually be when shifting), the averages are MUCH further apart.

Using your methodology with my limits, the Stage 2 car will be below 350TQ. The Stage 3 car will be over 450. Ditto with HP, 350 to 450 or so.

Having driven both, I can say that on a drag-strip, the Stage 3 car will beat the Stage 2 by multiple car lengths.

On a road course, the Stage 3 handily kept up with a Stage 2 Lingenfelter Z06.

Those are both very impressive feats. But, the best thing to do is just wait for us to have time to go to the strip with it or wait for somebody to post an outside review. They're coming.


----------



## i0n (Oct 29, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I agree that the area under the curve is the important part. You've missed an important detail though:
> The transmission.
> 
> If you limit your range to 4k-redline (which is where a driver will usually be when shifting), the averages are MUCH further apart.


I didn't miss it, I was just focused more on street driving where the entire range is important for determining how the car feels as a whole.

I completely agree about the 4k-redline part. Below are my plots:


----------



## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> In stock, ready to ship! Check the release text under required and recommended parts. I include a link to this bad boy from Sachs.
> 
> http://www.goapr.com/products/sachs_clutch_25tfsi.html


A 4 puck solid hub disk is not suitable for street driving. Is there a street option? thanks carl


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

carl44 said:


> A 4 puck solid hub disk is not suitable for street driving. Is there a street option? thanks carl


Agreed. I didn't notice that. I thought the Stage 3 clutch suggestion was going to be the organic Sachs disc plus the stiffer pressure plate.

Stage 3 vs. Stage 2 peak torque is only 50 ft-lbs higher (about 10% higher), so wouldn't a mild stock upgrade over stock be acceptable, assuming Stage 2 is okay on a stock clutch?


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

i0n said:


> I didn't miss it, I was just focused more on street driving where the entire range is important for determining how the car feels as a whole.


Nice Matlab plots. :thumbup:


----------



## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

Marty said:


> Agreed. I didn't notice that. I thought the Stage 3 clutch suggestion was going to be the organic Sachs disc plus the stiffer pressure plate.
> 
> Stage 3 vs. Stage 2 peak torque is only 50 ft-lbs higher (about 10% higher), so wouldn't a mild stock upgrade over stock be acceptable, assuming Stage 2 is okay on a stock clutch?


Plus the solid hub will destroy the transmission input shaft splines over time. Carl


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

carl44 said:


> Plus the solid hub will destroy the transmission input shaft splines over time. Carl


The stock disc is solid hub as well. The sprung hub is in the dual-mass flywheel assembly. 










Might as well go for this while you're at it: http://www.sachsperformance.com/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=731










But seriously, what about the organic Sachs unit instead? http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sac...05/2009-/SRE-Performance-Clutch-Kit::304.html










It says "550+ N*m" (~405 ft-lbf), but given that it is "higher transmittable torque" than stock (and assuming it is more than just 10% higher than stock), it would probably hold for non-abusive use with a Stage 3 kit, no?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

carl44 said:


> A 4 puck solid hub disk is not suitable for street driving. Is there a street option? thanks carl


Have you driven this one? Opinions across the board from those with street time are quite different.

If this is not what you want, feel free to get something else. An upgrade is necessary, so we're simply giving an option.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> The stock disc is solid hub as well. The sprung hub is in the dual-mass flywheel assembly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The first option is for the VLN race cars if I'm not mistaken. I do not believe it's compatible. The other option Sachs offers is not suitable for these power levels.


----------



## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Have you driven this one? Opinions across the board from those with street time are quite different.
> 
> If this is not what you want, feel free to get something else. An upgrade is necessary, so we're simply giving an option.


Arin, the short answer is no. Who on this forum has? I really think you have done a great job on the kit. People have to understand there are compromises when you do a major re-engineering . Ive been setting up track cars for a long time and without exception a great track car makes a poor street car. You can have a good track car thats also a good street car. The more you go one way the other suffers. It just depends what you want to give up. carl


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

i0n said:


> On 93 octane, my numbers show identical torque and only +23 HP for stage 3 over stage 2. I think in a drag race the stage 3 and stage 2 cars would be quite close. On the track, I think the winning car would depend heavily on the layout of the track.


That's way wrong. 

Stage III 93 max gains over Stage II+ 93:

~ 100 ft-lbs and 125 HP

Stage III 100 max gains over Stage II+ 93:

~ 190 ft-lbs and 235 HP

*This graph is at the wheels / front hubs on our dynapack*










Stage II+ is also COMPLETELY maxed out. Stage III has plenty of room left. : )

I'm surprised +182 HP over stock and +125 HP over 2+ on 93, and +283 HP over stock and +235 over 2+ on 100 is not impressive. :laugh:


----------



## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

I like that last graph, but you have me curious when you say "front hubs". I know it is a dynapack and you could hook up all 4 hubs, although it sounds like you managed to take the reading off the front wheels only?

This would explain a lot when comparing to other dyno results, as futile as it may be.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> The first option is for the VLN race cars if I'm not mistaken. I do not believe it's compatible. The other option Sachs offers is not suitable for these power levels.


Hi Arin, I was kidding about the VLN one. But as for the organic Sachs unit, did you guys test it or discuss with Sachs how much of a holding torque increase there is over stock? For 91 or 93 octane levels only, the *peak* holding torque difference is only about 10% (so assuming stock is barely okay for Stage 2, then I'd expect a modest clamp force upgrade to be barely okay for 91/93 octane Stage 3.

For folks like me stuck with 91 octane gas, the 91 octane peak torque on Stage 3 is actually the same as Stage 2 on 93 octane. So for 91 octane only folks, could we even just get away with stock clutch?

What do you think?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

CarbonRS said:


> I like that last graph, but you have me curious when you say "front hubs". I know it is a dynapack and you could hook up all 4 hubs, although it sounds like you managed to take the reading off the front wheels only?
> 
> This would explain a lot when comparing to other dyno results, as futile as it may be.


Haldex cars shouldn't be run in AWD mode on non mechanically connected dynos as it can hurt the haldex unit. The operator who setup the car for the first runs did connect it to all 4 pods and we tested it anyways. The rear wheels would not turn at the same rate as the front. It was clearly not safe.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Hi Arin, I was kidding about the VLN one. But as for the organic Sachs unit, did you guys test it or discuss with Sachs how much of a holding torque increase there is over stock? For 91 or 93 octane levels only, the *peak* holding torque difference is only about 10% (so assuming stock is barely okay for Stage 2, then I'd expect a modest clamp force upgrade to be barely okay for 91/93 octane Stage 3.
> 
> For folks like me stuck with 91 octane gas, the 91 octane peak torque on Stage 3 is actually the same as Stage 2 on 93 octane. So for 91 octane only folks, could we even just get away with stock clutch?
> 
> What do you think?


We have not tested it. I really don't know if it will hold.


----------



## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Haldex cars shouldn't be run in AWD mode on non mechanically connected dynos as it can hurt the haldex unit. The operator who setup the car for the first runs did connect it to all 4 pods and we tested it anyways. The rear wheels would not turn at the same rate as the front. It was clearly not safe.


Ah, that is interesting. How did you stop the haldex from working? 

I'm looking forward to seeing some 0-60 and 1/4 mile numbers from the kit. Also a few reviews on that clutch. As the others mentioned, a drive-able 4 puck is kind of unbelievable. I thought you were talking about introducing a carbon carbon clutch that was near OEM feel?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

CarbonRS said:


> Ah, that is interesting. How did you stop the haldex from working?


IIRC a fuse is pulled. 



> I'm looking forward to seeing some 0-60 and 1/4 mile numbers from the kit. Also a few reviews on that clutch. As the others mentioned, a drive-able 4 puck is kind of unbelievable. I thought you were talking about introducing a carbon carbon clutch that was near OEM feel?


We're looking at a few things right now (may work, may not). The sachs setup is what's available now an for the foreseeable future at the moment.


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

DSG/S-Tronic is the best solution for this Stage 3 turbo kit.

The HGP-Turbo Golf 6 R36 Bi-Turbo, has 745 hp and 925 Nm of Torque, and is using a upgraded RS3 S-tronic gearbox.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> We have not tested it. I really don't know if it will hold.


Again, considering 91 octane Stage 3 peak torque is equal to Stage 2 93 octane, even stock should hold in that case (just no 100 octane...)


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Again, considering 91 octane Stage 3 peak torque is equal to Stage 2 93 octane, even stock should hold in that case (just no 100 octane...)


You may be very well correct, but I'm not going to tell you you're right or wrong simply because I haven't tested it and don't have an honest answer. If you think that will work out, and if Sachs does too, I'm willing to be we could source a unit for you. If you want to do it on your own, or let the shop you're working with do it too, that's an option as well and would be the preferred method. Let me know, and we'll work something out. :thumbup:


----------



## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> You may be very well correct, but I'm not going to tell you you're right or wrong simply because I haven't tested it and don't have an honest answer. If you think that will work out, and if Sachs does too, I'm willing to be we could source a unit for you. If you want to do it on your own, or let the shop you're working with do it too, that's an option as well and would be the preferred method. Let me know, and we'll work something out. :thumbup:


Hi Arin. How does this 4 puck clutch drive in the real world? "button" clutches with cerametallic or metallic pucks are known for being very hard to modulate on the street (and not last very long when one does slip it in stop and go traffic). Putting aside longevity, how many stage 3 cars are out there with this clutch? What were the results? 

FYI... There is another option out there for an uprated, single disc clutch from a different vendor who posts from time to time on this forum. Anyone can find them by searching this subforum for a thread which I started about the slipping clutch in my TT-RS.

Thanks


----------



## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Will the Q3 RS be available in the US ?
If it is than then sales of the stage III kit could rocket,plus you will have a chance of testing the DQ500


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

there are no Q3's in north america at all, but the rs3 sedan is supposedly coming


----------



## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I did read somewhere that the Q3 might be sold in the US,I'm sure it would sell well if Audi decided to go ahead and import it.
The RS3 is not even available in Europe any more


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

hightechrdn said:


> Hi Arin. How does this 4 puck clutch drive in the real world? "button" clutches with cerametallic or metallic pucks are known for being very hard to modulate on the street (and not last very long when one does slip it in stop and go traffic). Putting aside longevity, how many stage 3 cars are out there with this clutch? What were the results?


I've driven the clutch and it was fine. It's obvious it's upgrade, but that's to be expected at these power levels. However, when I said I thought it was only "ok" to a group of my peers, I was laughed out of the group. Everyone else seems to think it's excellent, especially at these power levels. Pretty much everyone who's driven it was fine and said it felt great but I suppose I'm a little more picky? That's what's difficult about clutches. It seems descriptions come down to personal preference and driving style. So almost like exhaust notes, it's difficult to describe or leave everyone happy and on the same page. 

I can't speak for sachs so I don't know how many people own this clutch setup. We've only just began selling it with our kits. IIRC it's been out for a while all across europe, so I'm sure there are many other reviews.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Bump for updates! Anyone have a stage 3 kit scheduled to go on their car? Also curious about the 4-puck clutch reviews (I still think the organic Sachs should be fine for pump fuel torque levels).


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Here's a fun video.


----------



## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

Excellent - assuming that'll come to the stage 1/2 as well?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

This looks promising. 6mt from the UK at bruntingthorpe.


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

No words..


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> This looks promising. 6mt from the UK at bruntingthorpe.


Very impressive! 6.1 to 100 is kind of quick. Is Jonny back on a stock block now?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Very impressive! 6.1 to 100 is kind of quick. Is Jonny back on a stock block now?


Revo blew it up using the loba hybrid a couple years back so he had it rebuilt and sent to APR UK.


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Revo blew it up using the loba hybrid a couple years back so he had it rebuilt and sent to APR UK.


I was just trying to remember where in the entire build process the 2.6l built block was. I thought it was early APR stage 3 days but that thread's been running for a long time and my memory's not so good


----------



## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

JohnLZ7W said:


> I was just trying to remember where in the entire build process the 2.6l built block was. I thought it was early APR stage 3 days but that thread's been running for a long time and my memory's not so good


Its still closer to a 2.5 than it is a 2.6!

Performance figures from 0-60, 62-124 and 1/4 mile are all on par with a lamborghini aventador!!!

And his 30-130 time is faster than a 680hp GTR by over a second, and quicker than a manual 997 turbo tuned to 750hp.

So much awesomeness


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Poverty said:


> Its still closer to a 2.5 than it is a 2.6!
> 
> Performance figures from 0-60, 62-124 and 1/4 mile are all on par with a lamborghini aventador!!!
> 
> ...


No doubt, this is a very impressive piece of kit. Can't wait to see some DSG numbers for it too, but I suspect at these power levels it'll just trim a bit more off and won't be massively different.


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

JohnLZ7W said:


> it'll just trim a bit more off and won't be massively different.


Considering who's driving this 6MT car, I'd agree..


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

What clutch is Johnny running?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> What clutch is Johnny running?


He had Helix make him a custom setup a while back if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

*Arin* - Is Jonny's car running the standard Stage 3 map, or does he have a super-special map because of his built motor (more boost etc)?

I know he's a very good driver, but 136mph is CRAZY fast.


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

jibbed said:


> *Arin* - Is Jonny's car running the standard Stage 3 map, or does he have a super-special map because of his built motor (more boost etc)?
> 
> I know he's a very good driver, but 136mph is CRAZY fast.


From his last update it seemed like he's running an off-the-shelf kit now, none of the pre-production hardware so probably also running the stock tune.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jibbed said:


> *Arin* - Is Jonny's car running the standard Stage 3 map, or does he have a super-special map because of his built motor (more boost etc)?
> 
> I know he's a very good driver, but 136mph is CRAZY fast.


We could run more boost on a built engine, and probably will in the future, but I only see that taking place on race fuel as the we're fairly knock limited on pump fuel.


----------



## milo (Feb 19, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> We could run more boost on a built engine, and probably will in the future, but I only see that taking place on race fuel as the we're fairly knock limited on pump fuel.


What kind of time and trap speed are you getting on a stock block STG3? I know I will not be building the block for a while and would love to enjoy the stock block and its full potential!


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

We haven't hit the track yet but will be in the not too distant future. 

Here are more videos posted to facebook:

0-155 MPH

TT RS vis GTR video

60-170 MPH


----------



## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

Holy crap, those gear changes...


----------



## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> We haven't hit the track yet but will be in the not too distant future.
> 
> Here are more videos posted to facebook:
> 
> ...


WOW!!!! Speechless!


----------



## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

haven't seen a 0-60 video yet. worse than stageII?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

canuckttrs said:


> haven't seen a 0-60 video yet. worse than stageII?


There is a video posted above.

0-60 in Jonny's car was 2.8 seconds.
0-60 in wolf power's car was 2.8 seconds.

Both 6mt. Looks like it's better than stage 2? What do they run?


----------



## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

Those videos are epic!

Man that guy can shift. He's probably not much slower than the S-Tronic 

I notice that he's got launch control as well - excellent!!!


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Jonny (Jonathan) is a racing driver, so he knows one or two about fast cars and how to drive them.


----------



## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> This looks promising. 6mt from the UK at bruntingthorpe.


faaaack...


----------



## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

There was actually a video made of 4 stage III cars launching.The racing driver jumped started as normal,and one car didn't get off the line,so I'm not sure we will ever see it LOL


----------



## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

got bored and wanted to see the difference between stage 2 and 3 on my $hitty 91 fuel.
in case anyone is interested here it is. definitely picking up a good chunk of power up top but giving up some lag as expected. realistically though, if you're really on it you're never below 4k anyway but nice to see...


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

A nice built threat here: http://www.redlinespeedworx.com/apr-ttrs-stage-3-build-gtx-3576-650hp-daily-driven










The Southbend Stage 4 TTRS 2.5T clutch now fully installed.....


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

APR Stage III - Continued testing, Acceleration Data, Dynos and Videos!

Last week APR's Calibration Engineers Visited the UK for final verification of our production Stage III Turbocharger System on standard European fuel grades, S-Tronic compatibility testing as well as further testing on modified engines. The results proved successful and we ended the weekend on a high note with acceleration testing and races at the famous Bruntingthorpe Airfield. 










Several magazines were present during the event and covered 4 of our customer's vehicles. 3 of the vehicles are 6MTs running various clutch setups, including the Sachs clutch solution we offer on our site in Wolf Power's vehicle (our Swiss importer). The final vehicle was an S-Tronic from Germany with an unmodified gear box. All vehicles were on pump fuel. 










Each vehicle was at various levels of modification. Wolf Power's vehicle is very similar to own as far as engine components are concerned. The engine is unmodified other than our recommended and required hardware and is running on the stock bottom end and stock head. Our intercooler was not available when the vehicle was built so they are running an alternative setup. This is the same full interior "street class" vehicle that competed and won at the Tuner GP at Hockenheim this past summer. 










Jonny Cocker's TT RS is fully built from top to bottom with many custom components. He has many build threads throughout the internet detailing many of the modifications he's made, some of which are still on the car today, while others were removed. The engine's internals are strengthened and the head was built to Race Developments UK's specifications. All major components required or recommended by APR are utilized on his vehicle, with the exception of the clutch, a Modified APR exhaust, and different intercooler as our unit was not available when the vehicle was built. 

Initially Jonny's engine modifications did not show a positive improvement running our standard APR Stage III Turbocharger System software. As we've seen with other vehicles and platforms, head porting typically does not show an improvement, and may even show a loss without specific tuning, even after which it may still result in a loss over stock. APR's calibration engineers spent time on his vehicle and were able to increase ignition advance enough so to create a very positive increase in power, later dyno confirmed after the acceleration tests.

Jonny's positive results have further advanced our own APR TT RS in house cylinder head porting program. With the proof of concept successful, we've begun the initial stages of developing a setup similar to what we offer on other platforms. For those unfamiliar, please visit our Cylinder Head Porting Product Page.










Installing an APR badge is serious stuff!

On the S-Tronic front we're still deep into development. The car's very fast on the street, makes excellent peak power, but is currently neutered in the low to midrange with torque clipped. Development will continue on this platform and when complete, we'll have support for the S-Tronic models at full power output. 

The final vehicle at the event was running a preproduction APR Stage III Turbocharger system running our development internally gated T3, GTX3071R turbo. 

*Now for the fun stuff!*

The vehicles preformed great and both Jonny's and Wolf Power's cars were able to beat our own 30-130 and other acceleration testing. Using our newly developed Launch Control, Jonny was able to shift his way into some serious performance figures. Here's a run down how his car preformed:

0-30 MPH: 1.1 sec
0-60 MPH: 2.8 sec
0-100 MPH: 6.1 sec
60-120 MPH: 5.2 sec
62-124 MPH: 5.7 sec
100-200 KPH: 5.8 sec
60-130 MPH: 6.82 sec
30-130 MPH: 8.75 sec
10.7 @ 136 MPH ¼ mile (p-box only, not a certified track). 

For those unfamiliar with Jonny Cocker, he's a professional driver for Drayson Racing. You can read more about him on his Wiki Page. Jonny's capable of shifting faster than anyone I've seen before and you can clearly see this in the chart below given the lack of any real step between shift (which appears on all other test vehicles). To get a better idea of what "Fast" is, take a look at his youtube videos:

The first video is a poorly filmed race between his own Nissan GTR with ECU Remap and exhaust modifications. 






Both vehicles were on straight pump fuel and no other fuel helpers. Jonny runs 245 Michelin PSS's on his TT RS. He estimates weight savings at 88 KG (Just shy of 200 lbs), through exhaust, intake, wheels, brakes, suspension and seat modifications, but he's never officially weighed the car to find the differences with the APR kit, intercooler, and other changes in place. The estimated vehicle "diet" was negated by carrying a passenger in the car for all video and acceleration tests based on everyone's best estimates. 

*For your further viewing pleasure, here are three more videos:*

Jonny Cocker's TT RS - Launch Control - 0-155 MPH.

Jonny Cocker's TT RS - PVW Teaser Video

Jonny Cocker's TT RS - 60-170 MPH

Jonny drove Wolf Power's TT RS collecting acceleration data. However, for this vehicle Jonny did not flat shift, as it was not his own vehicle. As you can see in the data below, the shift times suffered greatly, but were still better than our own results produced in the Hot and Humid Alabama Summery south!

60-120 MPH: 6.7 sec
62-124 MPH: 7.2 sec
100-200 KPH: 7.2 sec
60-130 MPH: 8.70 sec
30-130 MPH: 10.6 sec

This graph displays 30-130 Acceleration times from Jonny's car, Wolf Power's car, and our own published advertising data for both 93 and 100 octane. Notice, Jonny's time dips at the beginning, which was because this run was generated during a lunch, but still proved to be his fastest result of the day. 










Jonny's vehicle's power was later confirmed on a dynapack dyno, with SAE correction, to be producing ~580 WHP (front wheel only) and ~560 AWHP with the front and rear wheels both connected. 

Here are the raw dyno graphs with all runs. 

*Front Wheel Drive Mode*










*All Wheel Drive Mode*










Jonny is scheduled to hit Santa Pod Raceway this weekend to collect more personal data on his vehicle. If the event goes well, we'll update everyone with the results! 

Thank you everyone. If you have any questions, please ask and I'll do my best to answer or source more data should I not have an answer. 

Thank you and Enjoy!


----------



## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

The link to the cylinder head porting page is broken... 404 error from your web server.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

hightechrdn said:


> The link to the cylinder head porting page is broken... 404 error from your web server.


Fixed. Thank you!


----------



## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

APR - What happened with the twin plate clutches you were testing?

A twin plate clutch has a lot of advantages for high power cars. Potential for twice the holding power and/or smaller diameter to reduce the Moment of Inertia. They are more expensive than the single plate setup, but we aren't talking budget builds with Stage 3 kits on the TT-RS either. If one needs to purchase a new dual mass flywheel, a twin plate clutch + single mass flywheel isn't that much additional cost.

Did you find some incompatibility with the twin disc clutches and the TT-RS powertrain?


----------



## primetime21 (Feb 14, 2013)

Here is a post with some time slips for a stage III ttrs from last night...

http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=1985.125


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

hightechrdn said:


> APR - What happened with the twin plate clutches you were testing?


You'll know soon enough.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Looks like Jonny Cocker is the first TT RS in the 10's, even with a pretty terrible 60 foot!



Jonny Cocker said:


> "Best of the day 10.94 @ 131.7 (1.82 60') .. Track prep was terrible.. Changed lanes after more prep and cut a 1.67 60' but missed 3rd gear!!!!.. It's got a 10.6X in it, just ran out of time! Always the way.. Still, good to be in the 10's!.. Next time"


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

RSW said:


> We broke into the 10's with our APR, LLC. Stg 3 TTRS!!! There is much room for improvement still!


----------



## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Quick video of my Stage III Stronic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0TyH9gUvO4

Please remember this is not an out an out attempt at a fast time,this is on the drive home with the car loaded and sadly slightly up hill due to traffic.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

jaybyme said:


> Quick video of my Stage III Stronic
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0TyH9gUvO4
> 
> Please remember this is not an out an out attempt at a fast time,this is on the drive home with the car loaded and sadly slightly up hill due to traffic.


The DSG clutches hold the added torque without issue? I wonder why would that be while the stock 6MT clutch is recommended to be upgraded.


----------



## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Marty said:


> The DSG clutches hold the added torque without issue? I wonder why would that be while the stock 6MT clutch is recommended to be upgraded.


The DQ500 is designed for production cars up to 600 nm,so the real limits will be higher.
The car has only done 3000 km with the stage III kit,so we will see over time how the clutches wear.
Not sure what the rating of the manual clutch is 500-550 nm maybe ?


----------



## Halex (Sep 27, 2013)

jaybyme said:


> Quick video of my Stage III Stronic
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0TyH9gUvO4
> 
> Please remember this is not an out an out attempt at a fast time,this is on the drive home with the car loaded and sadly slightly up hill due to traffic.


Hi! What kind of fuel was used in this video?


----------



## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Halex said:


> Hi! What kind of fuel was used in this video?


Car runs on 102 ron


----------



## Halex (Sep 27, 2013)

jaybyme said:


> Car runs on 102 ron


are you always use 102 ron or you can switch type of fuel?
And another one question. what about launch control on stage 3? Is it kills stronic or not?


----------



## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

It has the normal 98 map ,but I always use 102 in Germany
How the box handles the power we will see over time.we could have faster clutch wear but it's early days yet.
So far the car has launched well,more worried about the prop than the gearbox


----------



## Halex (Sep 27, 2013)

jaybyme said:


> It has the normal 98 map ,but I always use 102 in Germany
> How the box handles the power we will see over time.we could have faster clutch wear but it's early days yet.
> So far the car has launched well,more worried about the prop than the gearbox


I heard that manufacturer changed the haldex firmware specially for better prop saving. However the dealer proposed me this at my last visit.


----------



## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Halex said:


> I heard that manufacturer changed the haldex firmware specially for better prop saving. However the dealer proposed me this at my last visit.


yes mine had the software update back in April


----------



## Halex (Sep 27, 2013)

jaybyme said:


> Quick video of my Stage III Stronic
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0TyH9gUvO4
> 
> Please remember this is not an out an out attempt at a fast time,this is on the drive home with the car loaded and sadly slightly up hill due to traffic.


Would you please describe briefly what are your feelings on the stage 3 after stage 2 with everyday city using? I very love my current stage 2 for the fact that it has very high torque in wide rpm range. It runs almost from 2000-2500 rpm. But stage 3 has even less torque than stock version befor 3500 rpm. How does it feel in city driving, for everyday using?


----------



## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

In town you don't notice it at all as your in low gears and there's plenty of torque from 2000 rpm
The difference between a good stage 2 and 3, is the way the stage 2 has lots of torque from below 2000 rpm and can pull quite strongly from low revs in high gears. The stage 3 would have to be at 2600 rpm to do that.I can drive in 7th at 1400 rpm and accelerate in normal traffic,but why ?.
In the Uk the car was more than happy cruising at 70 mph and 2000 rpm,and fast enough if you just needed to accelerate a little.
It just means you change your driving style when cruising at 50- 90 mph. 
You also have to be prepared for the car when it goes above 3000 rpm and into warp drive.It would be no different if you went from a TTRS to a GT3 Porsche
I find I'm dropping a gear on the autobahns,not because I need to,but because I want to,and the difference in acceleration once the car is above 3400 rpm is just huge.
Even in 7th, the acceleration is fast once your in the power band, it's can actually be used as a proper gear now instead of an overdrive,problem is, you have to be doing above 120 mph.
Here's a video pulling from 40 mph in 4th.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axtCGlYOvTw

This is just cut from a video,not a full power pull or anything,and when I first accelerate it's on a reasonably steep climb,so pointless using it for timing purposes.
It shows how the car reacts from 2000 rpm ,and the way power comes in above 3000 rpm at part throttle.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Any US Vortex folks with a TTRS Stage 3 yet?


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Any TopSpeed runs, yet. ???


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Wonder when we will see the first RS3 and RS Q3 "APR Stage 3" conversions.

Because i reckon it will also fit on those cars, right.

btw, this kit could have a big future, with the rumour that the "Next Gen" TT-S will also get the 310 hp 2.5 TFSI engine like the RS Q3.


----------



## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Not by me,and due to a repaired tyre being on the car at the moment,and Winter tyres going on next week,it will be next year before I might attempt a top speed run.
A few weeks ago I did a few runs at 280 + and it kept pulling strongly,so going by GPS theoretically it would hit 337 km/h at the limiter in 6th.Whether it would, or if it could go higher in 7th we will have to wait and see.
Need some (Y) rated tyres


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

jaybyme said:


> Not by me,and due to a repaired tyre being on the car at the moment,and Winter tyres going on next week,it will be next year before I might attempt a top speed run.
> A few weeks ago I did a few runs at 280 + and it kept pulling strongly,so going by GPS theoretically it would hit 337 km/h at the limiter in 6th.Whether it would, or if it could go higher in 7th we will have to wait and see.
> Need some (Y) rated tyres


Michelin Super Sport.


----------



## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Yes have them on the car now,but might be putting 20" on next Easter.
Hopefully with some Mich cup2's if available in the right size.


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

jaybyme said:


> Yes have them on the car now,but might be putting 20" on next Easter.
> Hopefully with some Mich cup2's if available in the right size.


What 20" wheels. ???


----------



## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

just looking at getting some oem 20" forged rims


----------



## RabbitTT (Nov 27, 2012)

Some amazing tech from APR. Now all I need is to buy a winning lottery ticket. That shouldn't be too hard...


----------

