# ms2e aba 60-2 trigger missing, extra random teeth in tooth logger



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

running ms2e with a jb performance vr conditioner the car starts and runs but starts missing teeth randomely (loosing sync) around 2k rpm and keeps loosing sync back down to idle sometimes re syncing, sometime not at all and have to turn off the ignition. 

scoped the vr output and the conditioner output and they look ok.

will vr sensors fail like this? I thought the would just quit.

any ideas on what else would cause this???


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

weeblebiker said:


> running ms2e with a jb performance vr conditioner the car starts and runs but starts missing teeth randomely (loosing sync) around 2k rpm and keeps loosing sync back down to idle sometimes re syncing, sometime not at all and have to turn off the ignition.
> 
> scoped the vr output and the conditioner output and they look ok.
> 
> ...


Put a 10K ohm resistor in series on VR+. Jean's conditioner board uses the same basic hardware as a v3.57 mainboard, Microsquirt and MS3 Pro all of which need a 10K to prevent sync loss above 2-5000 rpms The VW CKP and 60-2 trigger produce TOO STRONG of a signal above that range. The 10K resistor knocks the signal back down to something the conditioner can handle.


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## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

I'm way beyond that level, I've scoped the vr output and the max9926 conditioner board output already, I'm not missing physical teeth, no extra vr spikes on the scope. I've been talking with Matt and Jean over on the msextra boards about this. already tried the 10kOhm across the vr - and +, to reduce the voltage of the signal, 

the outer ring on the vr sensor that carries the o-ring has broken off the old sensor and is seized in the block, which is in the scirocco. I have figured out how to extract the ring without putting a hole in the radiator which is about 9" from the hole, and hope to do that this afternoon so I can replace the sensor. 

I was just varifying that a vr sensor can randomly not put out a ac spike as a tooth passes when it is starting to go "bad" before I went through with this, but I'm already down this rabbit hole and it is the last cause to rule out, I have approached this from every conceivable angle. if this doesn't do it, I have some base level troubleshooting issues in my head or my car doesn't have a gremlin, it has a freaking demon. :banghead:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

10k should not be "across" VR+/- it should be "in line" or in series with VR+. Verify that's the case please.


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## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

the 10k is across the vr- and vr+ per Jean and Mat for the max9926 vr conditioner ic used in the jbperf conditioner board and ms3pro. this is different than what is used on the v3 v3.57 boards.

Mat from diyautotune: "The B&G VR conditioner needs a resistor inline; the Maxim ICs work differently and use a resistor across the sensor."
Jean from jbperf: "Yes, it is to decrease the amplitude of the input signal. And if the input signal is not very high (well above 50V), there is no need for a resistor and you should have an output."

I got the vr sensor replaced with no change in performance, changing out the wire and connectors from the vr to the ms box after that I'm left with a "bad" ic on the conditioner board as the only cause left.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Well I have been running an MS3-Pro on an ABA since beta testing the 3-Pro started and I solved the sync loss at 2000 rpms issue with a 10K 1/4W resistor in series on VR+ it's been almost 20,000 miles trouble free. just saying.....


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Also you may want to try swapping your capture edge or sensor polarity. I have seen that cause this problem as well.


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## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

Prof315 said:


> Well I have been running an MS3-Pro on an ABA since beta testing the 3-Pro started and I solved the sync loss at 2000 rpms issue with a 10K 1/4W resistor in series on VR+ it's been almost 20,000 miles trouble free. just saying.....


And I'm appreciative you did
That is now on my list of things to try tonight.


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## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

Prof315 said:


> Also you may want to try swapping your capture edge or sensor polarity. I have seen that cause this problem as well.


When I do that I get the two tall spikes in the tooth log at the missing teeth instead of one.


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## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

No improvement with the 10k in series.
Pulling the vr board and bench testing it from 1kHz to 8kHz at work tomorrow, the EE at work owes me a favor for helping him figure out a couple processor issues, not that I know anything, I'm just really good at troubleshooting with Socratic method, identifying assumptions and logic, where he has trouble transitioning from design to troubleshooting,,,,but I digress.
I made one assumption durning this whole process, the issue was my mistake and something I could correct


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## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

I bench tested the conditioner board with a 10v ac triangle wave from 1kHz to 8kHz and it outputted a matched 5v square wave. it's not my problem.
hel I'll deal with this next week, Prof315 I'll be in touch, I believe you have more experience with the MAX 9926 ic and the aba vr sensor than anyone I have found over on the ms boards.


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## memoe1284 (Sep 21, 2008)

*Vw 1.8 exhaust cam mod into intake cam*

Hey I sent you a PM I want to send you my Vw 1.8 exhaust cam message me back with info on where to ship it and what you need. Thanks 

Memoe1284


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I would try a range of voltages, and use a sine way input.


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## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

my suspicion is I have a software/setting issue causing a code glitch, not a hardware issue

I have found the repetitive sync loss can start by several variables and will continue in repetitive sync loss until the car is shut off.
1 at startup occasionally goes into repetitive sync loss right after starting, this is with no throttle input starting.
2 at idle and an instant short of the vr sensor input (real extra missing tooth) 
3 at idle and momentarily cutting and restoring the output from the vr conditioner to the ms2 processor
4 reving past 2k rpm.
5 hitting burn in any field tried.


I can't make a hardware issue cause all 5 variables to initiate this issue and not recover in my head as the engine runs fine at idle with a good clean crank trigger signal. if the repetitive sync loss was caused by a issue vr sensor through vr conditioner out to ms2 processor, the sync loss would recover with #3 and #5 would not cause the issue.

I have reloaded the firmware a few times but will try reloading again tonight

I have a post over in the msextra.com forum with my msq and datalogs 

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=54925&p=407107#p407107


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Try a firmware relaod w the boot jumper not just jumperless.


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## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

err, how do I do that? it's been years since I boot jumpered,,,,
I have my tuning laptop and powered ecu sitting on my desk right now.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Open the case and put the boot jumper on the ms2 card. It will be on the left of the daughter board when the db37 is to your right.


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## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

I had the noise filter on, probably filtering out real signals 
with the noise filter off the sync loss recovers now

should be fairly easy to resolve the remaining sync loss with a proper sized series and parallel resistors to the vr sensor


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