# 2.0t Coilpacks on 1.8ts Technical Facts



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Edit by Mod Groggory:
Props to this thread go to mkIII_Beezy. Any reference to the OP in this thread shall henceforth be associated with mkIII_Breezy, by declaration of Mod Groggory



mkIII_Breezy said:


> *For The Few, The Bold, The Proud Users posting Hard Data facts - Kudos and Beer Up!
> *


A new 2.0 should be better than an old 1.8 coil anyways... That's stupid. Should be a new r 1.8 from the recall.


----------



## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

DMVDUB said:


> A new 2.0 should be better than an old 1.8 coil anyways... That's stupid. Should be a new r 1.8 from the recall.


With all due respect, assuming without testing is what is stupid! You are saying coil A *should* be better than coil B, but based on what testing? I am not saying that you are not correct but it is what actual testing will prove.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Exactly, that's why they should both be new. They could be the same but the 2.0 outperforms it solely because it's fresh. That's what I'm saying. It's not an even playing field. Old and used vs brand new:sly: doesn't make sense for actual data. It's an added factor that's not added to the 2.0.


----------



## toby lawrence (Dec 12, 2011)

DMVDUB said:


> Exactly, that's why they should both be new. They could be the same but the 2.0 outperforms it solely because it's fresh. That's what I'm saying. It's not an even playing field. Old and used vs brand new:sly: doesn't make sense for actual data. It's an added factor that's not added to the 2.0.


What do most people these days replace their old, tired 1.8T coils with? 2.0T coils. Having a used 1.8T coil and a new 2.0T coil generates useful data to see if that new fad is backed by actual numbers. Since my coil was in perfect working condition, and actually pretty new (within 10k miles)... it isn't really old or cruddy. However, yes, it is still used. Overall, this test gives the normal crowd of people an answer of whether or not they should switch from their 1.8T coils to 2.0T coils.

In this thread, we don't really give two ****s about new 1.8T to old 2.0T... we care about whether or not the LS2/Truck coil has a marked improvement over any of the OEM offerings... for us 1.8T guys, this is currently the OEM 1.8T coils or 2.0T coils. We also care deeply about having to spend $50 a coil, which is why the cheaper off-brand LS2/Truck coil was thrown into the mix to see if the performance is still there when not totally OEM.

If you want to go and buy a new and used coil for every variation listed here, and then test these yourself... go for it. People like Max will still be here, driving around auto-x courses faster than you ever will, based on the improvements he makes to his car from tests like these. :wave:


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I get your point. It would just be nice to know, for people that aren't going to swap to ls coils, if there really is a difference between them new. Also yes I would supply the brand new coil to see if there is a difference. 

Ok... He does autox so... I've complemented the man several times on his setup and info. Don't try and make some accusation like I'm trying to start sh!t. I'm making a valid point if you don't get it im sorry about that. 

If you only cared about the ls coils, you would just need to know the experiences from the rest of the tuning community. They've been used on dsm's nissans and toyotas for years... For a reason.


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

I'm looking for 2.0t Coilpacks on 1.8ts Facts and setups on AWW AWD AWP

Currently Looking for suggested setup info on my AWP w/ stage 1 tuning( 18 PSI ) 


Here are The current Facts I have found: Anyone with advise and knowledge on this subject drop a line...


*COILPACKS*

RED MKV FSI Coil Packs - 06E 905 115
BLACK MKV FSI Coil Packs - 07K 905 715 F
BLACK MKV TSI Coil Packs - 06F 905 115 F

*Spark Plug Info*

HOT - NGK #6 (OEM Range for 1.8/2.7 Engines) - Stock car with stock boost/timing, or mildly-tuned car in cold climates.
- NGK BKR6E (Copper)
- NGK BKR6EIX (Iridium Version of the same plug above)
- Denso K20R (Copper)
- Denso IK20 (Iridium Version of the same plug above)
- NGK PFR6Q (OEM Platinum) - If you're planning to stick with stock boost

COLD - NGK #7 (One Step Colder) - Cars with basic "chip/intake/exhaust" bolt-on upgrades (K03, K04, etc): Drop one range.
- NGK BKR7E (Copper)
- NGK BKR7EIX (Iridium Version of the same plug above)
- Denso K22R (Copper)
- Denso IK22 (Iridium Version of the same plug above)


COLDER - NGK #8 (Two Steps Colder) - Cars with bigger turbos will benefit from these, whereas a regularly chipped car may foul these.
- Champion C63YC (Copper)
- NGK R5672A-8 (Copper, Non-Resistor plug)
- NGK BKR8EIX (Iridium)
- Denso IK24 (Iridium)
- Bosch F5DPOR (Platinum/Side Fire)


----------



## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

not like it hasnt been covered in this thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5637507-Integrated-Engineering-2.0t-coil-conversion-review

or this one:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...dapter-plates.&highlight=2.0t+coil+conversion

or this one:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/432344-Using-2-0T-coil-packs-on-the-1-8T


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

I have already viewed all of those - Audizine actually has many more posts than that, and has the most knowledge so far , but i am looking for user specific set ups and the Problems over come.

We all know you have to gap the plugs and wet/ soap / die electric grease to install and what not. But i have looked all week and still have no good facts on the favorite coilpacks and favorite plugs Ran.

would be great to see all vortex running their 2.0t mods write up and post here! Its time to Supply a hard data sheet. 

The spark Numbers and Range sheet took me all week to find lets see everyone back it up!


----------



## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

You can't go wrong with either NGK BKR7E (copper) or BKR7E-IX (iridium) on chipped applications. Most people are able to run 0.032" to 0.040" gaps with the 2.0T coils. However, INA does not recommend the Mk6 coils due to cracking issues with the plastic bodies. See posts #1, #2, and #3

I personally run 0.035" on BKR7E-IX plugs and the red 06E coils. Significant improvements to acceleration and responsiveness after the ECU adapted :thumbup:


----------



## BZ_F**k_U (May 9, 2012)

Im running TSI coils with BKR7E gaped to what ever they are out of the box no issues running a GT28rs i was thinking about going colder but not sure ill say thins tho with VW the fsi and tis do suppersead to the same number, I also change my plugs ever oil change to


----------



## BMP #1736 (Dec 14, 2011)

I bought the mk6 coils before we found out they were prone to cracking. I was just about to jb weld mine when i stumbled across this post. 

So ill take before and after pics just for the sake of not having to jump to other threads to see pics.

Before (2 cracked coils in same spot):


















After:

Will post pics in morning when they are dry.

Im using denso IK22's gapped to .035 on a '03 GTI 20th AWP

Personal Opinion:

When i first switched from OEM coils and BKR7E's gapped at .030 to the mk6 coils with the same BKR7E's gapped to .035 the first thing i noticed was how my rpm needle was no longer "searching". It was rock solid. The first few days were "ehh.. i needed new coils anyways.." but i wasnt sold just yet. After switching to the densos IK22 @ .035 it was that "night and day" difference some others are claiming. 
But keep in mind i went through 4 sets of different plugs at different gaps before the trial and error paid off. Just remember every application is different regardless of mods. You may have to play around with different plugs till you find the ones that work for you.


----------



## toby lawrence (Dec 12, 2011)

Don't overthink the upgrade. Get some 2.0T coils, some proper spark plugs for your boost/power levels, and gap them appropriately. Done.


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

Yeah I was thinking about the mk6 coil packs but the more I search people have problems with the plastic stem surround cracking. I have read that many people recommend die- electric grease be used on the rubber seal to allow these coil to expand when used with coil pack adapters.

I have seen multiple people use the old 1.8t coil pack rubbers and slide them on the 2.0t below the factory rubber and not use the adapters at all. But I believe this only works on mk6 plastic coils I'll see if I can find the link tonight and post it...

The more I read and search Leads me to believe, even though i was basically sold on mk6 plastic shielded coils I may just go with the mk5 style to prevent the wallet thinning out


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

*I tend to over think everything*:screwy:

But I like to thoroughly know what I do to my cars and I'm always developing a plan for down the road projects.

Thanks for everyone's posts so far..:thumbup::beer::beer::beer::beer:


Lets get more shots and details for your setups Coil#'s , Plug#'s and Gap's - would be a benefit for everyone that cares to evolve this mod.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## 04 GLI Luva (May 30, 2007)

FSI coils, no coil pack adapters, stock plugs with e85

The adapters are a waste of money IMO, the FSI sit a lil higher but still seal and havent once popped up. They even make that "pop" when u pull em out, from the air tight seal.


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

Just picked up a set of RED MKV FSI Coil Packs & a set of BKR7E's , also a set of ecs black bolt down coil pack holders - Will be hopefully working on the setup this week. I will post some pics and starting running a constant update on changes and ideas on my apr stage 2 awp setup....


----------



## GolfCL Smooth (Jul 9, 2006)

You went with the hold-downs instead of the adapters? Do they still fit over the taller coil packs?


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

they will work with some small spacers under each leg of the hold down....:beer:


----------



## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

just spend the $80 and get the proper stuff. 
Plus is looks so good in there


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

Current Views @ #666 :beer:


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

was gonna buy em - buy i wanted to play around first before i decide- I have access to a lathe and mill , and some free material .... Sooo _ here what I got in my inventory at the moment. 

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us 

P.S. this was supposed to be installed last week!:banghead::banghead::banghead:


----------



## Ryan 1.8T (Jan 31, 2012)

in to see how this looks with the hold downs:thumbup:


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

I will try this sooner or later:banghead:


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Here's something else to try: open your bedroom window and chuck a bunch of money into the wind. Look how pretty pretty the bills look when they flutter away. Just as well spent as on 2.0 coil packs.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

:laugh::laugh:
Doug that's the Truth! The whole 2.0 coilpack thing is what's also known as the placebo effect!

Go with LS coils or don't bother. My coils since the recall have been running beautiful and the gap is a little bigger than normally run too.

There has been no scientific proof of anything to be gained from them yet just speculation. Once they get tested on the testing thread and I'm proved wrong then I'll believe it. Otherwise it's just a 1.8t coilpack that's been made longer. Oh, and it was proven there is NO hp gain whatsoever.


----------



## Mr_Long (Dec 9, 2003)

Sorry but like I'm not a natural english speaker (or reader) need to ask...

What you said is the 1.8T coils will work just as good as the 2.0T, sooooo there is no gain to go with the 2.0T?


----------



## VWBugman00 (Mar 17, 2009)

You know, it may be a placebo effect. But I'm running .035 gap on my 1.8t with the 2.0 coils, and the car is running great. This may be just due to the new coils, however, with the stock coils, new or otherwise, I was never able to run anything bigger than the .028. I don't regret my purchase at all :thumbup:


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Here's something else to try: open your bedroom window and chuck a bunch of money into the wind. Look how pretty pretty the bills look when they flutter away. Just as well spent as on 2.0 coil packs.


I have no horse in the game. Period...... but really? You of all people? I ran new MKIV coils back to back with MKVI properly held down...... A dampened tachometer needle does NOT lie -- if anything the fact it becomes smoother even though it's dampened after and you have less misfires(yes the ones which do not trigger a misfire counter increment in the ECU as they are not enough to slow the crank speed to register)period. The rough idle? Those are occasional misfires... the new smooth idle? Not placebo, that's called feeling less misfires...... 

Facts. Irregardless they work better.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

VWBugman00 said:


> You know, it may be a placebo effect. But I'm running .035 gap on my 1.8t with the 2.0 coils, and the car is running great. This may be just due to the new coils, however, with the stock coils, new or otherwise, I was never able to run anything bigger than the .028. I don't regret my purchase at all :thumbup:


Yeah..... obviously NOT placebo. If it were placebo and they were the same you would be unable to run a big gap on the MKVI coils.

I'm at .038 or was in a 3076 Jetta running a mix of 50% E85 and 50% 93 octane. At 25psi+. Unfortunately I chucked first gear and the car sits, but the smoothness and power increase are/were dramatic. Misfires = lost power/lost speed/lost/wasted firing events. In a 4 cylinder car you have NO overlapping firing events/power strokes, they are sequential. 

That's why even tiny misfires make your life SUCK on a 4 pot lump. A 5 pot has overlapping firing events, as a 6 pot does. 

Noticably less vibrations in your 4 cylinder back to back with both new coils? Less misfires, as you have no overlapping events to smooth things out. Which is why 4 cylinder cars feel like garbage when they have ignition issues.


The more you know!


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

gdoggmoney said:


> Irregardless


thats not a word. 


I run the Mk6 packs at .035 on the F23 and its significantly better than the Mk4 coil packs. Someone was sending this to someone to test the spark and compare but I dont know the results.


----------



## toby lawrence (Dec 12, 2011)

ejg3855 said:


> thats not a word.
> 
> 
> I run the Mk6 packs at .035 on the F23 and its significantly better than the Mk4 coil packs. Someone was sending this to someone to test the spark and compare but I dont know the results.


Dats me. I'm still waiting on Bruce Bowling to get back to me.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

ejg3855 said:


> thats not a word.


Au contraire! In fact it is a word, just not a standard one.

Much like these FSI coils, they aren't standard on 1.8T's, but we use them anyway...


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

18T_BT said:


> Au contraire! In fact it is a word, just not a standard one.
> 
> Much like these FSI coils, they aren't standard on 1.8T's, but we use them anyway...


yay grammar thread. Its not a word. Its listed in dictionaries as non-standard.




> _Irregardless Versus Regardless
> 
> First, let's talk about irregardless. Some people mistakenly use irregardless when they mean “regardless.” Regardless means “regard less,” “without regard,” or despite something. For example, Squiggly will eat chocolate regardless of the consequences.
> 
> ...


----------



## SkootySkoo (Aug 8, 2004)

18T_BT said:


> Au contraire! In fact it is a word, just not a standard one.
> 
> Much like these FSI coils, they aren't standard on 1.8T's, but we use them anyway...


:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Here's something else to try: open your bedroom window and chuck a bunch of money into the wind. Look how pretty pretty the bills look when they flutter away. Just as well spent as on 2.0 coil packs.


Please explain this.


DMVDUB said:


> There has been no scientific proof of anything to be gained from them yet just speculation.


....there are about 200 people that think this statement is nothing but false. No one ever said 2.0 Coil packs would be a power adder but If I can have better idle and not have a coil pack pop @ 22psi with a 0.04" plug gap then that is enough "gain" for me.


----------



## M dub (Apr 12, 2011)

I don't know where to ask this but do the 1.8T coils have igniters built in?


----------



## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Early ones do not, later ones do... 3 pin vs 4.


----------



## leonardodecappiccuno (Oct 17, 2008)

Im running a franken F4h-t, and just changed recently to the 2 litre coils with a 0.04 plug gap on
the ngk bkr7, noticeable difference in engine smoothness from idle to red line, and better gas mileage.
Had the Bug on the rollers, with hotter ambient temps, than last run with my older 18t coils, and showed a 5/6 bhp drop, reasonably happy with that, for smoother engine and better miles per gallon

Regards Lenny


ps had seen 254 BHP on old coils and 248 BHP on new ones


----------



## deltaP (Jul 26, 2011)

Issam Abed said:


> Please explain this.
> 
> ....there are about 200 people that think this statement is nothing but false. No one ever said 2.0 Coil packs would be a power adder but If I can have better idle and not have a coil pack pop @ 22psi with a 0.04" plug gap then that is enough "gain" for me.



I agree!! I was popping new coil packs within weeks, I switch over to the 2.0 coils and no problems, smooth idle, however, I feel that I might have lost a few horses in the switch.


----------



## M dub (Apr 12, 2011)

AmIdYfReAk said:


> Early ones do not, later ones do... 3 pin vs 4.


Thanks for the help.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Issam Abed said:


> Please explain this.
> 
> ....there are about 200 people that think this statement is nothing but false. No one ever said 2.0 Coil packs would be a power adder but If I can have better idle and not have a coil pack pop @ 22psi with a 0.04" plug gap then that is enough "gain" for me.


Exactly. It's really simple logic. Obviously something is different -- and in a beneficial way which allows a bigger gap under higher cylinder pressures than the old coilpacks.

Nothing but crickets being heard...


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> Obviously something is different -- and in a beneficial way which allows a bigger gap under higher cylinder pressures than the old coilpacks.
> 
> Nothing but crickets being heard...


I am not going to repeat what has been discussed here ad nauseam. Simply do a Google search and you'll find the epic thread from last summer. As for any difference, I know of zero between post-recall 1.8T CPs and the subsequent ones for 2.0T -- except for height. As for technical inquiry into the question, this is the latest and greatest I'm aware of:

from 27 August:


toby lawrence said:


> Month-later update... got an e-mail from Bruce today. He had apparently lent some of his testing equipment to a nearby university and just got it back. He's working through a backlog of other coils to test and said he plans to get ours tested on Tuesday.
> 
> As a refresher, I sent him a used 1.8T coil (revision R), a new MKV 2.0T coil, a new AC/Delco LS2 D585 (truck) coil and a random brand LS2 D585 coil clone that was really cheap.
> 
> I'll update again once I hear back from Bruce. :beer:


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

toby lawrence said:


> OK.. it's been months but first update from Bruce: OEM vs rando brand LS2 coil. The OEM LS2 coil puts out a nice, clean spark... but the rando brand ones I got was super noisy and Bruce himself said it was hard to make out exactly what the secondary current was looking like.
> 
> He didn't send me any numbers (yet) but it seems like we should probably stick to the OEM LS2 coils (AC/Delco or even from the GM parts counter) for those of us actually doing the swap.
> 
> He sent me some videos which are basically just showing the secondary current on his scope as he sweeps from 1ms dweel to 5ms. I'll try and get those posted soon. He said he should have the results for the 1.8T/2.0T coils tomorrow. :beer:


Its been a long time coming! Thankfully Bruce is doing this for us. I think we all know the ls2 coil is going to be stronger. I think the more important result I think will be the 1.8t vs 2.0t. That's been a hot debate over the past year. 

I've been happy with my ls2 coil swap. No issues after a full season of running hard at Autocross or drag racing.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I know of zero between post-recall 1.8T CPs


Run any of the latest revision 1.8T coils @ 0.04 gap & 22 psi. 
Let me know how long it takes for your check engine light to come on.:thumbup:


----------



## toby lawrence (Dec 12, 2011)

spartiati said:


> Its been a long time coming! Thankfully Bruce is doing this for us. I think we all know the ls2 coil is going to be stronger. I think the more important result I think will be the 1.8t vs 2.0t. That's been a hot debate over the past year.
> 
> I've been happy with my ls2 coil swap. No issues after a full season of running hard at Autocross or drag racing.


Oh, no doubt. It's a good piece of information, though, IMO. The rando brand coils were significantly less than the OEM ones... but it shows that there is definitely a difference and just because they are the clone of a strong design that it doesn't mean they're going to be as good.

I'm curious to see the 1.8T vs 2.0T match up for sure, though. I know when this was a more frequented thread that DMVDUB argued that an old 1.8T coil vs a new 2.0T coil was a stupid comparison, but I'll be very curious to see how a used revision R coil holds its ground against the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-sparking 2.0T coil. I have a feeling it's not going to be all too much of a difference.


----------



## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Can't wait for the 1.8t vs 2.0t coil comparison. I am grabbing some opcorn: for the rationalization that is going to come out if, as I suspect, there is nothing to show for the "upgrade".


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Issam Abed said:


> Run any of the latest revision 1.8T coils @ 0.04 gap & 22 psi.
> Let me know how long it takes for your check engine light to come on.:thumbup:




Clearly, you who have built many different things making huge power have nothing on [email protected] here, who sells a bunch of little chinese turbos and was hocking ebay cast manifolds ceramic coated, after being warned from people who did it years before they would crack. ^_^ Clearly this experience I have as some [email protected] is not valid, as [email protected] uses his might and pseudo authority as a slick silver tongued salesman here, brandishing it much like a large phallus in the face of clear proven logic. Change coils? Giant gap, smooth idle, better response, better spool etc. Back to 1.8t coils? Decrease gap, rough idle, blown up at high pressures. 

This place is getting like society, idiots of the least common denominator with the loudest voices are effing it all up for everyone.


----------



## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Can't wait for the 1.8t vs 2.0t coil comparison. I am grabbing some opcorn: for the rationalization that is going to come out if, as I suspect, there is nothing to show for the "upgrade".


One thing that I'm, worried about is this becoming another 1.8T vs 2.0 coil gong show. I'd like to keep this thread on track as primarily an LSx coil Technical thread. I'd still like to see the comparison between the D585's and the D514's at 3ms. I think Bruce mentioned previously that he had some D514's kicking about.

Edit: For the 1.8T vs 2.0 comparison, I think the results can be posted here and at the 1.8T and 2.0 Coil Technical thread. I would like responses pertaining to the 1.8T and 2.0 coil comparison to be done at the appropriate threads concerning 1.8T and 2.0 coil differences though. :thumbup: 

IE: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5711235-2.0t-Coilpacks-on-1.8ts-Technical-Facts

Fair enough? Thanks all. :beer::beer::beer:


----------



## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Chickenman35 said:


> One thing that I'm, worried about is this becoming another 1.8T vs 2.0 coil gong show. I'd like to keep this thread on track as primarily an LSx coil Technical thread. I'd still like to see the comparison between the D585's and the D514's at 3ms. I think Bruce mentioned previously that he had some D514's kicking about.
> 
> Edit: For the 1.8T vs 2.0 comparison, I think the results can be posted here and at the 1.8T and 2.0 Coil Technical thread. I would like responses pertaining to the 1.8T and 2.0 coil comparison to be done at the appropriate threads concerning 1.8T and 2.0 coil differences though. :thumbup:
> 
> ...


Oh, I'm not looking to derail such a good thread! I'm just anticipating what people who jumped on the 2.0 coil bandwagon will have to say if the result does not favor their expectations. At least opinions about the results can be discussed in the thread you linked. :beer:


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Oh, I'm not looking to derail such a good thread! I'm just anticipating what people who jumped on the 2.0 coil bandwagon will have to say if the result does not favor their expectations. At least opinions about the results can be discussed in the thread you linked. :beer:




This is what I love about science. Cold. Hard. Facts.

We'll see how everything stacks up.


----------



## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Oh, I'm not looking to derail such a good thread! I'm just anticipating what people who jumped on the 2.0 coil bandwagon will have to say if the result does not favor their expectations. At least opinions about the results can be discussed in the thread you linked. :beer:


No problemo.. I know you're good :beer:


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

groggory said:


> This is what I love about science. Cold. Hard. Facts.
> 
> We'll see how everything stacks up.


Funny. Doug and I tested these back to back on the Dyno with no improvements whatsoever almost a full year ago. We posted the dyno plots and everything. No one seemed to care. This will give us actual numbers to attach to coil A, B, C, D.


----------



## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

spartiati said:


> Funny. Doug and I tested these back to back on the Dyno with no improvements whatsoever almost a full year ago. We posted the dyno plots and everything. No one seemed to care. This will give us actual numbers to attach to coil A, B, C, D.


... and the wide gap magic seems to not happen either (at least in my car). Just as the regular E revisions, at 30+ psi, I misfire under load at anything wider than a .026" gap (fresh plugs, harness and all). opcorn:


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I am eager to see the results of this. I'll be the first to admit I've been wrong about the 1.8t coil vs. 2.0t coil being superior when the results are shown. Issam and his 200 "believers" seem to think even though you lose power you're gaining something in the loss. I have a hard time falling for it when it's only shown negative gains. My ignition started to break up at boost as the "believers" have mentioned themselves and I got the recall done... needless to say it was fixed. 
I've said it before and I'll say it again, a healthy 1.8t coil from the last revision (OEM) is reliable and can hold a descent gap as well. Mine were gapped ~.038 and had been for about a year with no issue. ** (I did reduce it to .032 last time I did plugs for WM ) **As Toby stated I doubt there is going to be much difference between them though. As for the LS coils, I think they've spoken for themselves on many platforms (with scientific proof) several times over.

I think it would be interesting to tear down one of each (1.8t and 2.0t) coil and see what makes them tick. If I decide to waste $40 on it I'll post pics of the difference in the two.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

DMVDUB said:


> Mine were gapped ~.038 and had been for about a year with no issue.


No offense but you are on a stock frame turbo (K03/K04).
Placebo / majic aside , you can test all you wish and post all the information you want as we are all here as a community , however , all the data you provide will never change the facts of the situation. 

Let's state the obvious : If you blow a coil pack , Audi/VW is not going to replace it for you for free. Last year if you had a receipt for coils , you were allowed to walk into an Audi dealership with said receipt and receive the latest revision at no cost to you (provided you had proof of purchase) but if you did not have that luxury then you were out a set of coils. I have not heard of anyone popping an FSI coil on a 1.8T application but I (and I am sure you ) have heard of 1.8T coils popping all the time. 
If you are going to buy a replacement part , why not buy the best you can get? If you are showing the exact same improvements from the latest revision 1.8T coils (R revision IRC) as you would from a 2.0T coil then I challenge you and anyone to that. 
There are others on here (myself included) that are running GT2868R / GT3071R's and no stock 1.8T (latest revision or not) coil has been able to provide the results that the 2.0T 07K coil has and a few of them were on the latest revision coil pack from Audi (no one wants to buy coils if they do not have to.) 

If you are going to quote a statement I made then please do so with accuracy:


Issam Abed said:


> *No one ever said 2.0 Coil packs would be a power adder* but If I can have better idle and not have a coil pack pop @ 22psi with a 0.04" plug gap then that is enough "gain" for me.


Nothing in that text states anything about a "loss" , it simply states there is no power gain. If a 1.8T coil is doing the above i.e. 22psi w/0.04X" gap then all the power to you but this has not been successful for me.

Also the kicker incase anyone wanted to know....

Q : Are 06A & 06H/07K Coils different structurally?
*A : YES*
Q : How do I know? 
A : I contacted these guys 
http://www.eldor.it/content/en/products
Q :How different? 
*A : That information is proprietary to the manufacturer but I got the answer I needed.* The answer I got satisfied me but it may not satisfy you. Any further investigating would consume too much of my time and the information (to me) would not be very useful.

feel free to do the same if you feel like going through the lengthy channels to get the answer you desire though 

Sorry for the thread jack OP. Just clearing up any misconceptions.:thumbup:


----------



## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

One of the things I previously pointed out to some the wide gap " Testers " who found a reputed power loss was: Did you readjust your base timing map to compensate for the increased time it takes for the spark voltage to build to flash over? 


Increasing the gap at the plug by .010" does have an effect on engine timing. Even .005" makes a difference. The effect is magnified as the RPM rises. The best way to properly correlate things is on a GOOD chassis Dyno..preferably a load cell Dyno IMHO.

IE: Test A: Load the car up to 5,000 rpm with plugs gapped to .025" ( for example ) and take a Power reading. Check the timing with an ACCURATE timing light.

Then run the same test conditions, but with the plugs gapped at .040". Does the Ignition timing stay the same?. If it doesn't, then re-adjust the base timing to equal that of Test A. Then and ONLY then are you comparing Apples to Apples. Oh yeah..and make sure that you have exactly the same parameters for the second run. Exact same Coolant and *Engine Oil* temperatures are vital for accurate comparisons. Engine oil temperature variations can skew results if you don't keep an eye on them. And the factory oil temp gauges are not accurate enough.

I've got to search through my Library to find the exact numbers of timing retard per amount of spark gap increase. I've got a couple of very good books on Ignition systems. I've got an early start in the morning...so I've got to hit the sack. I'll post back with what I can dig up.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Issam, 

No offense to you, but you sell these coil pack "upgrade" kits. Therefore you have an interest in pushing them a being better. I know the profit margin on these kits is high (even though they're cheap) so why not push them? I'm still sticking with seeing the SCIENTIFIC proof that these are actually better.

As for, Are they different structurally? Um... Yeah, look at them they are obviously different structurally. That doesn't speak for mechanically. That question and answer seem to be worded in a way that leaves you safe from prosecution if they don't fair as well as marketed under lab testing. 

I'm not running a K03S, or BT. I'm running a K04Hybrid which flows a lot more than the stock turbo. So, on both a stock turbo and hybrid my coils have been fine.

There's also a very good amount of people running decent software with BT setups daily that also run 1.8t "R" coils with no issue. With some of what Chicken man noted, it seems that the software is what is actually making the difference. By changing the gap you're setting the plug to what the software wanted to begin with. Maybe the rough idle and whatnot would change if you just adjusted the timing map instead of tossing in 2.0T WUNDERCOILS. If you're BT and having an ignition issue, why would you waste your time with 2.0T coils anyways when we know that the LS coils work?:screwy:


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

DMVDUB said:


> I'm running a K04Hybrid which flows a lot more than the stock turbo. So, on both a stock turbo and hybrid my coils have been fine.





Issam Abed said:


> you are on a stock frame turbo (K03/K04).





DMVDUB said:


> Issam,
> No offense to you, but you sell these coil pack "upgrade" kits. Therefore you have an interest in pushing them a being better.


What exactly is your point? If you recall I was the first skeptic on the 2.0 FSI coils being better than 1.8T coils (if you do not recall then go back and read the thread). Interest or not , please do not make me out to be a used car lot salesman....INA sells products that work , simple so if you mean we have an interest in selling products that work then I would say that is a pretty good interest.


DMVDUB said:


> why would you waste your time with 2.0T coils anyways when we know that the LS coils work?:screwy:


As far as I know the LS Coil swap is in the same league as the 034 kit that was launched 6? years ago. The 2.0T Coil kit is simple , plug & play and does the job required.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Ok Issam:wave:


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> *No one ever said 2.0 Coil packs would be a power adder*





Issam Abed said:


> There are others on here (myself included) that are running GT2868R / GT3071R's and no stock 1.8T (latest revision or not) coil has been able to provide the results that the 2.0T 07K coil has


It's contradictory statements like that which only deepen the controversy, Issam. If you've been able to document some form of added value with the 2.0T coils, then this thread seems a good place to make them public. My opinion of their merits is based on testing that was done out in the open. But perhaps our turbo and mods were ill-suited to show benefits. So if this is another case of "it'll help only with a big turbo build", I can accept that.

So is it?


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Thank you Doug! I was thinking the same thing and before I could get back to my laptop you took the reigns.

This thread is about SCIENTIFIC data. Issam you've given ZERO scientific data to back your claims. Doug from what I know is the only one to have done anything to test them in any way being on the dyno, and Toby has Bruce doing the actual lab testing.

So you're pretty much saying the only people to benefit are BT people? 

As for the 034 coils... the price is absolutely outrageous when you compare the DIY factor being in the $150 - $200 range vs $300 something a coil:sly:


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> It's contradictory statements like that which only deepen the controversy, Issam.


That statement is far from contradicting if you do not understand what the 2.0T coil pack upgrade *DOES.*
Power Adder != Better idle + wider gap 
Not sure how many times I need to state this. You are assuming improvement must equal power , however , in this case it does not and no one here ever claimed it did. 
OP lets take this to PM. Nothing further for me to discuss here


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Issam Abed said:


> That statement is far from contradicting if you do not understand what the 2.0T coil pack upgrade *DOES.*
> Power Adder != Better idle + wider gap
> Not sure how many times I need to state this. You are assuming improvement must equal power , however , in this case it does not and no one here ever claimed it did.
> OP lets take this to PM. Nothing further for me to discuss here


Let's see. We have people who have built multiple 300-500hp cars(some have owned these cars since they were brand new with 5-10 miles off the dealer lot).

And a guy selling alibaba.com chinese turbos. 

Last time I checked, logic falls under the blanket of science. Latest rev of 1.8T coils? Die due to trying to jump a large gap under extremely high cylinder pressures. Latest rev of 2.0T coils? Don't die when trying to jump a large gap under extremely high cylinder pressures.(speeding-g60 aside, he melted one at 750AWHP, that's a dense charge to zap through)

Logic, you changed something and now you can run a larger gap and have better throttle response, and etc. Changed a variable, did not get the same results. Repeated, and demonstrated by many people on this forum.

LOGIC AND SCIENCE!

If the coils produce the exact same output? Oh well, for SOME reason the 2.0T coils survive and do better with cars making real power. Therefore, not throwing money out the window. And, again logic, and scientific method. 

I find this funny seeing as I never sold a damn thing or made any money. I've seen the difference on multiple cars.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

So as you both stated, the 2.0T coil is only good for those making 350+whp on GT2871R through GT30 series turbos? Maybe even 40series? 

So unless your cylinder pressures are insanely high because you're running a BAT (but not too big) these are of no use to anyone else?


----------



## toby lawrence (Dec 12, 2011)

Whoa guys, let's settle down. I'm not against having a thread slightly mucked up but I don't want to have to ask groggory to clean it up.

This is about the LS2/Yukon coil conversion... for people that already know the 1.8T/2.0T coils are stupid if you care about long-term reliability and consistency. :beer:


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

I agree with Toby.

Let's drop the 2.0t coil thing for now. We can reopen that can of worms when the results come back.

Right now all everyone's doing is regurgitating the same stuff that's been said for the last year or so.

Hopefully our tests will come back soon.


----------



## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Oh boy was I right to predict some ruffled feathers, when the verdict isn't even out on what's better and in what aspect.

How about we let true scientific testing backed with measurable data decide what's what? That's over one page wasted on personal opinions with nothing posted here to accurately back any claims... and a total disrespect for the OP's request to redirect the 1.8t VS 2.0t coil debate elsewhere. :thumbdown:

We all have opinions and theories to justify the money we spend on mods, but I feel that people get so enthusiastic about stuff they run that they make it their duty to support them, measurable results or not, just to make themselves feel better. Being in a competitive sport with my car, the only way for me get results is to try different things. When the result isn't what advertised or expected, after good testing, I have no loyalty to anything except the time clock (even my wallet takes a back seat). 

I have tried a set of each coils back to back (both new) just to see if I would get any better results (ability to run wider gap, smoother operation, better performance or response, etc.). I did this because I was going through coils on a consistent basis but also was finding myself having to run very tight gap to not misfire at around 35 psi or more. The result was that both set of coils behaved exactly the same, in the things I tested for. At the 35 psi tested, they both started blowing sparks/misfire at exactly at 0.023 with a bad harness and at 0.026" gap with a new harness. There was also no perceivable difference in terms of smoothness at idle, response or anything. 

To me, until the test results comes out, the coils are the same and we should all let the test result decide if there is any measurable differences because most butt dynos seems to be calibrated by enthusiasm. I was personally able to figure out the reason I was blowing coils so often, my coilpack harness was shot from age and stressing the poor coils (I have a feeling it is the same for many many 1.8t cars out there). With a fresh coil harness, I don't think there will be any premature coil failures with either coils anymore but time will tell.

The pics below show the state of my harness when I decided to diagnose and fix the premature failures, and to test every variable I even indexed the plugs to make sure things were as consistent as possible. *please guys, let's relax and let the result teach us things that we couldn't measure.*


----------



## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

toby lawrence said:


> Whoa guys, let's settle down. I'm not against having a thread slightly mucked up but I don't want to have to ask groggory to clean it up.
> 
> This is about the LS2/Yukon coil conversion... for people that already know the 1.8T/2.0T coils are stupid if you care about long-term reliability and consistency. :beer:


Thanks Toby ( and Max )..I was just about ready to ask the same thing. :thumbup: There is a thread for 1.8T vs 2.0 debate..please use it everyone. Thanks all :beer:

I haven't had any vacation time this year and have had zero time to work on my car. I'm going to take next week off and catch up on all of my car projects...including finishing my LS2 conversion. I'll post pics of the installation.


----------



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Max,

What dwell settings did you test with? At stock dwell, I've noticed LS2s to have no real benefit over 1.8ts other than reliability. Still had to run a


----------



## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

gdoggmoney said:


> This place is getting like society, idiots of the least common denominator with the loudest voices are effing it all up for everyone.


 Too late.


Marcus_Aurelius said:


> *How about we let true scientific testing backed with measurable data decide what's what? That's over one page wasted on personal opinions with nothing posted here to accurately back any claims... *


 I agree.

I do have to say that I've had some BT customers report that they were always blowing up coils until the switched to the TFSI coils. But that is _anecdotal_ evidence at best and they were *NOT* power adders.

Let's all take a deep breath please.


----------



## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Pat, I'm still at OEM dwell setting


----------



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

spartiati said:


> Completely agree! It would be nice to see how these (d585 and d514) compare at stock dwell times, as well as optimal (which we know to be around 5ms)


 
Completely unscientific testing, but my results: 
1.8t, uni 830, custom intake manifold, hy35, d585 coils, 2ms dwell, vvt enabled. 

[email protected], idle & off boost response good. Too cold, but I had to pick up new plugs 
[email protected], bad break up before 15psi, but better idle. 
[email protected], great in-boost response. no more break up. Then sent a rod through the block. 

I need to get the dwell increased to 5ms. I had the ECU reflashed but forgot to have it done. I also need to try bkr8es, as I feel the 7's were still too hot for the application. And, of course, put a new motor in.


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

Glad to see more techinical Info being posted... :thumbup: Pics always Welcome too....


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

*1.8 vs 2.0 coil battle on the dyno:*

Backed timing to 18 on top at 20psi running E85. 

This is 2.0 coils which had 6 dyno runs in them and heat soaked engine: 










and this is the 1.8 coils after 15min brake. Tuner also made a note the cold coils that had not been used would probably work better: 










They didnt. 


Conclusion was there was no power difference between them at all.


----------



## Mr_Long (Dec 9, 2003)

The point of using the 2.0 coils is due they produce a better spark so avoid misfire, rough idle ect.


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

but the point is that i have made s well as others as that they don't make an improvement.

too many people here think they can switch to these coils, run a larger gap and then leave them alone like they did the 1.8t coils.

you get the same result, blown plugs, crappy coils. i check gap weekly, run a cold plug, and make sure to rotate coils weekly...still old as 1.8t coils. 4+ years BT...no issues here.

people in here lack diligence in small maintenance when they go modified

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

well, there has been so much talk here lately that the 2.0 coils had LESS power than 1.8 coils and what have you so I thought I'd dyno them to compare. Imo 2.0 coils are better to drive on the road.


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i saw zero differenc ein idle. played with gaps and so on. and it only took 8 days before one popped and died. so fuk em i say. i love my R-revisions...infact i ahve a new set, maybe i will finally repalce them all with actual new coils not used ones.


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Vegeta Gti said:


> but the point is that i have made s well as others as that they don't make an improvement.
> 
> too many people here think they can switch to these coils, run a larger gap and then leave them alone like they did the 1.8t coils.
> 
> ...


 :beer: i never bought into the hype :laugh: :thumbup:


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

I'm not a die hard anything. I wanted to check these 2.0 coils because the reports are they last longer than the 1.8's. 

At least there is no power LOSS from running 2.0t's 

s'all good :wave:


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

:beer::beer::beer:


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Gulfstream said:


> I'm not a die hard anything. I wanted to check these 2.0 coils because the reports are they last longer than the 1.8's.
> 
> At least there is no power LOSS from running 2.0t's
> 
> s'all good :wave:


 i commend you for doing real work :beer: most of these cat's never dyno or experiment, they just talk out their @$$es or regurgitate :thumbup:


----------



## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

I can confirm that in my car, running 1.8 vs 2.0 back to back didn't allow any improvement of the permissible plug gap. At around 37 psi, new coil harness, and a fairly advanced timing curve on E85, both coils started blowing the spark at exactly 0.026" 

So your test and my test confirms two things, with all else equal: 

1) There is no power improvement or loss between the two generations 

2) There is no difference in allowable gap 

These were two of the main selling points on the 2.0 coils, so now the only appeal left is possible longevity which is only time will tell. Due to the horrible fitment, requiring adapters and possibly hold downs for racing environment, honnestly I'm only leaving them in my car because they're red and spice up my boring engine bay.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I like this thread  

Finally some truth and proof comes out.:beer:


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Hey Marcus. Do you wanna share your timing advance at 7000rpm at different boost settings on E85? 

Today I went up to 22 deg. and down to 18 deg. at 7000rpms / 20psi with only 20whp difference...


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

I never bought into the hype but I did buy the coils and they did make my car idle smoother. I saw many reports of smoother idle on the 2.0t coils so I figured I'd give them a shot and they served that purpose well. Thanks to Gulfstream for posting up some data:thumbup::beer:


----------



## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Gulfstream said:


> Hey Marcus. Do you wanna share your timing advance at 7000rpm at different boost settings on E85?
> 
> Today I went up to 22 deg. and down to 18 deg. at 7000rpms / 20psi with only 20whp difference...


 My timing curve isn't really boost dependent, and it doesn't matter what I'm boosting at, I run the same somewhat optimized curve on E85 (even with the K04 turbo maxed out at 37 psi). I see about 34* at 7k which is from a +13.5* bump over a basic flash. I would think that with your built motor and E85, you could push it much further than what you mentioned. I was pushing way over 22 * of timing on water injection alone a couple of years ago.


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

^^^The best timing curve ever. This is the timing curve you wanted your timing curve to grow up and be like..lol:thumbup::beer:


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> My timing curve isn't really boost dependent, and it doesn't matter what I'm boosting at, I run the same somewhat optimized curve on E85 (even with the K04 turbo maxed out at 37 psi). I see about 34* at 7k which is from a +13.5* bump over a basic flash. I would think that with your built motor and E85, you could push it much further than what you mentioned. I was pushing way over 22 * of timing on water injection alone a couple of years ago.


 holy ****! 

Have you made sure your not too far advanced? Did you dial it in on a dyno? Cyl pressures? 

All builders I spoke to here in Norway / Sweden say on E85 on a 20vt head at 20psi 20~ish degrees is getting close to peak...


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

^^ Merged Gulfstream's awesome data into this thread


----------



## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Gulfstream said:


> holy ****!
> 
> Have you made sure your not too far advanced? Did you dial it in on a dyno? Cyl pressures?
> 
> All builders I spoke to here in Norway / Sweden say on E85 on a 20vt head at 20psi 20~ish degrees is getting close to peak...


 Yes Sir I made sure! On an OEM small port head (which is what I run), and when fuel is not a limiting factor, the timing limit is about 27* at peak TQ based on my testing. Above that, TQ went down on the rollers, EGT went up, giving me my indication that I was pushing cyl pressures. Optimally, higher RPMs will allow more timing than what I run but I don't have a cell specific way of advancing timing, so I used the somewhat conservative ramp of my flash and optimized at peak TQ.


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

How the Hell is DMVDUB # 1 Post - I started this Thread!:wave: *For The Few, The Bold, The Proud Users posting Hard Data facts - Kudos and Beer Up! 
*


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

MKIII_Breezy said:


> How the Hell is DMVDUB # 1 Post - I started this Thread!:wave: *For The Few, The Bold, The Proud Users posting Hard Data facts - Kudos and Beer Up!
> *


 Don't worry, we'll still give you props. 

However, this is such an important thread that I've been merging other threads that are ALSO important regarding this such that people have a one stop shop for 2.0t coil information


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

MKIII_Breezy said:


> How the Hell is DMVDUB # 1 Post - I started this Thread!:wave: *For The Few, The Bold, The Proud Users posting Hard Data facts - Kudos and Beer Up!
> *


 lol, your shine was stolen ic:


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Big_Tom said:


> lol, your shine was stolen ic:


 Go check post 1. 

Shine given back.


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

groggory said:


> Don't worry, we'll still give you props.
> 
> However, this is such an important thread that I've been merging other threads that are ALSO important regarding this such that people have a one stop shop for 2.0t coil information


 *Dito - I got tired of searching, hence the Topic* I'm still in the middle of rebuilding my AEB Head, So I have nt popped in my 2.0 coils to start toying around. But Still the thread must go on....:thumbup: 

Thanks for for the credentials


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

groggory said:


> Go check post 1.
> 
> Shine given back.


 :beer::thumbup:


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

*2.0 coils in the 1.8t without aluminum spacers*

*Installation W/O Adapters*

Just slapped in my red top mk5 2.0t coils today without the use of aluminum adapters and I am Actually overly happy with the results. By using the Old rubber boots from the 1.8t coils when removed, you can cut them down and slip them on the 2.0 coils and complete the seal plus give you the holding power that the stock coils and or adapters would give you ... Difference>>> 80-100$ Spacers vs. 0$/ The Sacrifice of the old coil!

*Here's the 2.0 coil inserted in the head( it does not have enough boot to seal it or give it great holding power it only has 2 ribs in and never gets below the alignment notch in the valve cover*



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

*Here's the stock 1.8t coil - Just use a small screw driver to get the edge of the boot up and carefully start to slip the boot down and twist back and forth to slip it down off *



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

*Now heres the tricky part:laugh:- Take a pair of dikes/ pliers with a good edge and cut it off at the top of the second rib down from the top side of the boot. eliminating the notch hole and giving it a better surface to meet up with the other boot on the 2.0 coil * 



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

*Now slip the boot on the 2.0 coil with the side you just cut up (notice I made sure i put the other little notch in the boot on the left side of the coil ( As if it was in its installation position)*



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

*There you have it, 3 of the seals are below the valve cover notch and still uses 3 more around it before it tops out in the head, Hence the holding power and protection like your stock coil *



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


*I have a set of Ecs Coil pack clamps and have determined you can run them also with the use of a 3/8'' long spacer for 6mm bolts- I did not have enough at home so I will be making 8 of them at work in the near future but in the mean while I can see over the next week or so if the coils work their way/ Pop out or not. But i am expecting them to not budge at all, as whoever does this will also see that these 2.0 coils seat in very good and the last push of the coil pack down onto the plug is evidence of how good the pack fits in with the older rubber boots transfered over.*

*Hers kinda what it would look like but i will be painting the spacers black to keep it above the sub par home depot look!*



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



******* I have started with a NGK BKR7E Gapped at .035 *


----------



## DUBBED-OUT (Mar 21, 2008)

*MKIII_Breezy*Well done :thumbup::thumbup:


Why wasn't this info available 3+ years ago when I was replacing the harness & 2-3 coils a month :banghead: 
In the life time of my 20v I must of went through every possible coil pack setup. They've all took a sh!t on me for one reason or another except for the Hitachi E coils (three years strong).
With that being said, I will be upgrading to the 2.0t coil packs, just not until one of my Hitachi E coils fail. I even bypassed the dealership's offer to replace them under their recall in favor of my Hitachi E.


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

*Here's 1 accomplishment .... I Never saw that with R coils, and a stage 2 setup! * 

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us 



*Though I have lost some low end spooling and the aggressive throttle response. My idle and rev have smoothed out. Typical surging of the 1.8t has remained, but at a much lower/less noticeable level* 

*P.S. Coil packs have nt budged with the modified boots from the old coil packs ---1 week strong and going*


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I have been one of the many saying this is a waste of money. Well, instead of just saying your wrong, I'm right and so on. I decided to install a set of 2.0 coils in my car today. My revision R coils are less than 6 months old as are the 2.0 coils. So far I notice NOTHING different. 

Like said, instead of claiming I'm right youre wrong without putting anything out on my end, I am trying both. I will be logging extensivly under different boost loads, different gaps, etc. I also plan to run 3 runs on the dyno with each. I have oil temp gauges as well as real water temp so I can get the tests as close as possible. 

So, let us see what these do with a hybrid turbo on a 550cc file. Science is the ultimate test of truth, therefore we will be running tests going from dyno for spool and hp/tq to daily drivability and even 1/8mile runs. 

See you soon.:wave:


----------



## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

DMVDUB said:


> I have been one of the many saying this is a waste of money. Well, instead of just saying your wrong, I'm right and so on. I decided to install a set of 2.0 coils in my car today. My revision R coils are less than 6 months old as are the 2.0 coils. So far I notice NOTHING different.
> 
> Like said, instead of claiming I'm right youre wrong without putting anything out on my end, I am trying both. I will be logging extensivly under different boost loads, different gaps, etc. I also plan to run 3 runs on the dyno with each. I have oil temp gauges as well as real water temp so I can get the tests as close as possible.
> 
> ...


 Like you, I expect to see no gains power wise between new 2.0 coils and new 1.8T rev R coils. However...the reliability factor may be harder to quantify. Only time will tell. 

A few questions and ideas on that front though. 

If you can get a hold of an infra-red heat gun you could check the internal heat generated by each coil pack. 

1:Engine fully warmed and a couple of medium pulls to stabilize temps. 

2: Record heat of a coil pack itself and the valve cover near the coil before the Full Power dyno run. 

3: Now check difference in coil pack temps immediately after the FP run. Check the valve cover as well. The temperature delta difference between the coil before and after should give you an idea of how much heat the coil is generating internally. 


Obviously if the 2.0 coils generate less heat buildup internally, then this would be a good indication of increased reliability. The VC needs to be checked before and after to subtract any temperature buildup in the VC itself. Generally I would expect the VC temperature to remain fairly constant through out the test. It has a very large surface area. The coils however, may show a considerable and rapid rise in temperature when under load. This would be interesting data to have. 

Regarding Dyno's...I know that you have to take what you can get...but a load cell Dyno ( where the engine can be held at a constant load and rpm ) would be better for this type of testing than an inertia Dyno. 

Good Luck with the test. Looking forward to the results. opcorn::beer:


----------



## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

MKIII_Breezy said:


> *Here's 1 accomplishment .... I Never saw that with R coils, and a stage 2 setup! *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Umm, I get that with my stock quattro A4 and my 225 TT. If I am friendly on the TT, 32mpg is not an issue. Stock 1.8t coils. Replace plugs every 3k.


----------



## c0r3y.af (Oct 8, 2009)

I purchased the 034 ICM delete kit and the FSI packs and adapters to replace my old AEB bolt down packs and troublesome ICM. I have been running this setup for about a month now and have not had any problems with it whatsoever. No coil popping (they actually sit very snug and it takes some effort to pull them off). 

With that being said, I must say that I have not really noticed any improvement. The car really does feel exactly the same. It seems to pull ever-so-slightly-smoother in WOT/full boost, and I am able to run a much larger gap than I was before (.028 to .04), but besides that, I have not experienced any of the "night-and-day" improvements that others have mentioned. 

Obviously I have no hard evidence or data logging to prove anything, just thought I'd share my thoughts based on overall feel of the car. Do I regret upgrading? Absolutely not. It was a simple install, the packs are inexpensive, and claim to be much more reliable. It also looks very cool in the bay . Would I do it again? Probably not unless I was having ignition problems to begin with. 

Not trying to take sides, just wanted to give my opinion.


----------



## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

Im no Guru here, but I think the 2.0t coilpack could very well be next to the same. Main benefits could be a smoother idle, and reliability but no real need to open the gap up unless the spark is proven stronger. 

The real benefit I see is that they sit higher above the Super hot valve cover and not as exposed to heat. Add some insulation to the coilpack wires and you have a set up seemingly more resistant to fail over stock coils. Worth the extra money? debatable, but I like having the peace of mind.


----------



## MKIII_Breezy (Apr 14, 2007)

Its Over a month Now and the coil packs have'nt budged at all, Their solid.... No Adapters No Bolt downs = Less Heat! We'll see how long they last.....:beer:


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

MKIII_Breezy said:


> Its Over a month Now and the coil packs have'nt budged at all, Their solid.... No Adapters No Bolt downs = Less Heat! We'll see how long they last.....:beer:


Got 10k on mine no issues at all with no holddowns. :thumbup:


----------



## teamx (Mar 6, 2011)

Got tired of replacing the stock 1.8T coils (blew 3 in 6 months) so swapped to the 2.0T's just for reliability sake. I had a MkV GTi and only popped one coil in over 2 years. Hoping to get the same results now. Nothing more annoying then a 3 cylinder 20vT


----------



## WhanAB (Jul 29, 2012)

*Gapping Key*

issue is gapping do that right whether 1.8 or 2.0 all good see larger gap usually means larger spark area larger burn area.... is that good or bad ?? good I thought..... 

but really I like it most for looks.










finishing up fuel rail tomorrow....


----------



## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

These coils have a higher output due to the higher fuel pressure that is sprayed in the combustion chamber.


----------



## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm really glad i read this, I've decided to stick with my 1.8t coils and just upgrade plugs. my only question is: how to paint my old coils red cause it just looks cool. are there 1.8t red coils?

any one have info on 06C-905-115M coils?
http://uspmotorsports.com/product_info.php?products_id=724
http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/06C_905_115_M/ES1304252/


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

who is adjusting their ign dwell times to match the tfsi settings in their me7?


----------



## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

taverncustoms said:


> I'm really glad i read this, I've decided to stick with my 1.8t coils and just upgrade plugs. my only question is: how to paint my old coils red cause it just looks cool. are there 1.8t red coils?
> 
> any one have info on 06C-905-115M coils?
> http://uspmotorsports.com/product_info.php?products_id=724
> http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/06C_905_115_M/ES1304252/


Pretty sure I have six of those coils if you wanted. Used of course. Pm me if u want them.


----------



## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

badger5 said:


> who is adjusting their ign dwell times to match the tfsi settings in their me7?


What are the tfsi settings? 

I added top end dwell by half a point but lost measurable effect by doing so as well as ran through 2 sets of packs this summer. One 2.0tfsi set and one 1.8t set. 

Setting coil dwell to what Mr. Tapp has done seems to work best by far.


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

or just stay with 1.8t coil packs, keep your plugs in check every couple/three weeks(Bt guys) and don't run crappy maestro.

still not having coil issues here....


----------



## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

no issues here, and I run "Crappy Maestro" :laugh::thumbup:


----------



## deltaP (Jul 26, 2011)

Vegeta Gti said:


> or just stay with 1.8t coil packs, keep your plugs in check every couple/three weeks(Bt guys) and don't run crappy maestro.
> 
> still not having coil issues here....


what is your max gap/boost?


----------



## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

Slimjimmn said:


> Pretty sure I have six of those coils if you wanted. Used of course. Pm me if u want them.


PM sent i do want


----------

