# HPFP Failure



## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

Since I chipped my car with the Apr 93 program 4 months ago I have noticed a very infrequent, but annoying issue. The problem happened when driving the car hard, shifting quickly from 3rd to 4th or 4th to 5th at about 5500-6000 rpms. When the car engages the next gear it won't make boost, i.e. it will only boost to 3-4 psi until I take my foot off the pedal, wait a moment and re-apply the throttle. So what I though was a failing diverter valve was actually fuel cut caused by a dieing high pressure fuel pump. The first signs of the problem occured at 12500 miles and at about 14500 miles the HPFP failed, causing a cel and making the car run super lean. My dealer was surprised the car actually ran when I brought it in. Luckily my friendly dealer couldn't prove the tuning program caused the failure and it was replaced under warranty. After the HPFP was replaced the quick shift boost loss issues were resolved. Anyone else have a HPFP die yet?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: HPFP Failure (PatientlyWaiting)*

You keep saying HPFP did you swap out your stock fuel pump for an aftermarket HPFP?


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## charlie.macpherson (Jun 15, 2008)

i heard that the fuel pumps go in the tsi's


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## BAD SNaCKY (Jun 15, 2004)

*Re: (illblood)*


_Quote, originally posted by *illblood* »_i heard that the fuel pumps go in the tsi's

this will not suffice.
who do you know that has a TSI with high mileage?
or even a defective FP?
i know some tuners out there recommend upgrading the fuel pump (for obvious reasons) after stage 2 and 3...
for the most part, i think the whole "i heard that xyz part goes" is still too early...in this forum, anyway.


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## charlie.macpherson (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: (ShippensburgGTi)*

from a vw tech who i hang out with


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## BAD SNaCKY (Jun 15, 2004)

*Re: (illblood)*


_Quote, originally posted by *illblood* »_from a vw tech who i hang out with

i know vw/audi tech's that had no idea the TSI was even at their dealership.
they'd pop the hood and go, wtf is this?


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## charlie.macpherson (Jun 15, 2008)

haha i dont no i asked him and thats waht he saidhes a kid so he knows the differnce


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: (illblood)*

This is the 2nd time that you have spit this out and all you can say is "my friend is a tech and he said it".....








Now I know our TSI engines arent 100% bulletproof but we will need to drop a LOT more miles on these engines before we start to see what pops up. Untill then Im throwing the BS flag


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## charlie.macpherson (Jun 15, 2008)

hey this is what i heard im just throwing my 2 cents in there sorry


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## ryan mills (May 3, 2002)

Just turned 10,000 chipped miles in my 2009 GTI and it's stronger than ever. -keep that fuel pump failing voodoo off the forum! If I don't hear about it, it will never happen. (I'm crossing my fingers and knocking on wood as I'm typing this.)


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## charlie.macpherson (Jun 15, 2008)

i dont think you have a thing to worry about its just what i hear about plus the dealer i heard it about is not that reputible so dont worry man sorry to scare people just throwing in what i hear


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## BAD SNaCKY (Jun 15, 2004)

fail.


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

Productive thread guys... Yes it was the HPFP that failed. The TSI has two fuel pumps, a high and low pressure. My high pressure failed.


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## GLIzzie (Sep 6, 2007)

hpfp failed, but probably due to defect from factory.. to automatically assume that it's a new 'issue' with the tsi is illogical.. i mean vag did make the tsi to address the issues of the fsi, so it's safe to say it should be a stronger part..


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: (PatientlyWaiting)*

woops I thought HPFP stoof for High Performance, instead it means High Pressure Fuel Pump, I misunderstood. hehe
I thought you meant you swapped your fuel pump for a high performance fuel pump from the aftermarket, thats what my initial confusion was....


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## GLIzzie (Sep 6, 2007)

it just doesn't make sense for vw to go thru the trouble of redesigning the hpfp and absorb the cost of the differences in its production (different machinery + production, employee training, etc.) if it didn't end up saving them money (i.e., not having to replace fuel pumps regularly). 
this early in the life of the tsi it can't be said whether the new pump is actually an improvement or just a new problem, but being that it was such a flaw in the fsi, it is reasonable to assume that it is much more durable this time around in the tsi.


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

*WTFHPFP*

From what my dealer techs conveyed to me, it is the same pump. Though I am not 100 percent sure of the validity of that.


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: (illblood)*


_Quote, originally posted by *illblood* »_i heard that the fuel pumps go in the tsi's

From who, the failure rate is no higher than the FSI, or any VW for that matter. Let me see some empirical data to prove that and ill stop calling b.s.


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## GLIzzie (Sep 6, 2007)

it is in no way the same pump.. the new pump is both more durable (to reduce the likeliness of failure and replacement by vw) and more capable.. even the camshaft was changed in accommodating the completely different hpfp.. i've heard that the stock tune requests as much as 140 bar, which is more than even a stage 2 fuel pump file does.


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (GLIzzie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLIzzie* »_
this early in the life of the tsi it can't be said whether the new pump is actually an improvement or just a new problem, but being that it was such a flaw in the fsi, it is reasonable to assume that it is much more durable this time around in the tsi.

Actually from an OEM standpoint the pump itself isn't the major flaw in the FSI's fuel system, the cam and cam lobe are. Much of the fueling system was redesigned to eliminate those problems all together. From an aftermarket standpoint the FSI pump isn't capable of delivering sufficient fuel for stage 2+ power. But that's a totally different discussion than outright failure as in the OP's case. But I doubt we'll be seeing a rush of similar failures.


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## DBGLI (Sep 22, 2008)

dont listen to people just because they are a vw tech.. i work at a vw dealership and some of the techs in the back are complete retards and dont know their elbow from their ass.. there are diff lvl techs. the tsi fuel pump as someone meantioned earlier is much more reliable and much more capable than the FSI pump. which is one of the reasons why the tsi can achieve the same numbers with less boost pressure.


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*Re: (ViRtUaLheretic)*

Good Flag Guy !


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

*Re: (EngTech1)*

crap.. I think I'm having this same problem. I've been apr flashed for about 3k? or so, but I just installed an intake and have run into this same problem twice now. shifting 3rd to 4th at about 4500rpm and it just felt like I let off the gas a bit, when I hadn't. I kept it there and it stayed the same, but if I let off and got back on it, it was ok


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (Slayer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Slayer* »_crap.. I think I'm having this same problem. I've been apr flashed for about 3k? or so, but I just installed an intake and have run into this same problem twice now. shifting 3rd to 4th at about 4500rpm and it just felt like I let off the gas a bit, when I hadn't. I kept it there and it stayed the same, but if I let off and got back on it, it was ok


would like to see how this turns out, as i was going to get chipped in the coming week or so. slayer you only have stage 1 right?

i have tbe + intake currently, so i'm looking to go stage 2.


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## [email protected] (Jul 30, 2007)

*Re: HPFP Failure (PatientlyWaiting)*

Please allow me to provide some info from APR's engineering department...
Based on the information relayed by the OP, it sounds like the solenoid controlled pressure regulating valve (N276), which is integrated into the High-Pressure Fuel Pump, may have failed or experienced intermittent operation. 
In reference to the APR TSI (CCTA and CBFA) Stage 1 and Stage 2 software, we do not touch anything related to the fuel pump or fuel pressure control. The fuel rail pressure with the Stage 1 or Stage 2 engine calibration is the same as stock throughout the entire RPM and load ranges. In addition, unless there is already an inherrent malfunction in the specific vehicle, there is no way to add additional “load” onto the solenoid (N276) just because you are chipped. 
The solenoid activates only at the beginning of the pump stroke to force the pressure regulating valve into a specific position. As soon as the solenoid fires to actuate the valve, the solenoid is de-energized and will not be used again until the next pump piston stroke. Since the pump stroke has a fixed physical relationship with the exhaust camshaft (on the TSI) AND we have not altered the rail pressure from stock, it is extremely unlikely that the APR software has anything to do with this issue. We simply haven't touched it as there is no need with the Stage 1 and Stage 2 calibrations on the TSI engines. You run out of turbo long before you run out of fueling on the TSI engines, even without any changes to the fuel delivery strategy. 
If you want to understand more about the TSI fuel pump and these engines, go here...
http://www.arinahnell.com/other/vw/tech/20tsi.pdf

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: HPFP Failure ([email protected])*

Thanks for the info Mike.


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

*Re: HPFP Failure ([email protected])*

great info mike! that makes me feel a bit better about my situation, sounds like it shouldnt be a fuel issue at all then


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: HPFP Failure (Slayer)*

Thanks Mike for the explanation, it makes perfect sense. Now i feel better about my future ECU upgrade


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## jessez (Aug 24, 2008)

same problem here.


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

jexxez, are you chipped?


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## jessez (Aug 24, 2008)

apr stg2. 
happened before software though, i know its not fro any mods, it was just a matter of time. i have 10,500 miles roughly btw.
going to the dealer tommorow. will update than.


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## V-dubTed (Jun 22, 2008)

every once in a while, when cold start the car would start up to ~600rpm, and within a second bog down and turn off. 
any clue if thats fuel pump related? thanks


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## Dandbest (Sep 11, 2003)

Tonight I experienced the same exact problem in my car... Shifting into 4th at about 5500 rpm felt like I wasnt on the gas at all for a few seconds when in reality I had it floored. I got it to do it 3 times, and no CE light. Upon scanning it, there are no codes present. What do I do next? Wait for it to fail?


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

happened to me again. we need to figure this out. any tuners car to chime in further?


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## BAD SNaCKY (Jun 15, 2004)

*Re: (PatientlyWaiting)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PatientlyWaiting* »_happened to me again. we need to figure this out. any tuners car to chime in further?

needs to be replaced again?!








warranty again?


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## lextildeath (Jun 18, 2008)

Mother ****er i feel for you! This actually happened to me the other day in 47F weather.
I think it has something to do with how long I warm up the car. 
I noticed a trend of the rare days that I am late for work or something and I don't let it warm all the way up to 190 on the gauge before driving - that is when this **** happens and I can replicate it on demand.
Keep in mind that even though I don't let it warm up to 190, this problem happens long after it already reaches 190.


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## ryan mills (May 3, 2002)

*Re: (lextildeath)*

I think there is a bit of protection built in to the engine management . If the engine isn't fully warmed up, it'll limit power. That's at least what I've noticed. I'm not too sure if this is what others are talking about though.


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## [email protected] (Oct 5, 2005)

*Re: HPFP Failure (PatientlyWaiting)*

I have a good friend and long time customer with an 08 TSI Passat having this exact same issue. 4th to 3rd is the usual gear change scenario. 
Sorry to say it sounds like a round of dealer visits for you TSI guys.
And to those who keep saying it was redesigned how could this be so? It has to be better and stronger and more reliable! 2 words for you...diverter valve.
Just because it was redesigned, doesn't mean it is better or not prone to failure...
Good luck and I hope this is as painless as possible!


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## lextildeath (Jun 18, 2008)

First, I thought it could have been the dioverter valve. But, I replaced it with a brand new Forge DV - same issue. And looking at my previous DV which was barely ever on the car - it is pristine.
ANOTHER NOTE** I get another, less frequent intermittent problem...I'm in 4th cruising at 65 or so, hit WOT with out shifting, pulls hard till 85 or 90 and then A LOT less power til 100. Not a complete dead spot like the other issue, but very weak. Any others experience that?


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

so anybody have any idea whats going on, it happened to me again, and I dont want to have to replace another HPFP


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## ItalianGLI (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: (PatientlyWaiting)*

take it in the dealership, you have a warranty, you should use it if something needs replaced


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## liloldbie (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: (ItalianGLI)*

To those of you with failures... which tuning company have you been chipped with?
I am not directly relating the problem to a tuning company as APR addressed in this thread, I am just looking for an idea.


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## ItalianGLI (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: (liloldbie)*

I wouldn't even suggest the possibility that this is related to any tuning company. If it's a failure prone part its going to fail doesn't matter if your stock or have been tuned for 100k miles
Especially since APR has stated that they do not touch the fueling on their tunes and have stated they use the factory spec as far as fueling goes, i know your not knocking APR but tuning companies do take in account what the limits of certain parts are to make it less problematic for the customer as much as possible


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## [email protected] (Oct 5, 2005)

Just for the record, my customer had not mentioned it but he was having the issue before he was flashed and was hoping that the flash would correct this "hiccup" as he calls it. He was flashed with GIAC, problem is still there....


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

does everyone that has this sort of issue have an intake of any sort?
I still havent had a recurrance of the issue, but the two times I did have it was right after I installed my intake. I was already flashed


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## JamesonsViggen (Feb 10, 2009)

*Re: (ryan mills)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ryan mills* »_I think there is a bit of protection built in to the engine management . If the engine isn't fully warmed up, it'll limit power. That's at least what I've noticed. I'm not too sure if this is what others are talking about though.

I noticed that too, wasn't sure if it was my imagination.


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## dubbinASE (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: (ItalianGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ItalianGLI* »_I wouldn't even suggest the possibility that this is related to any tuning company. If it's a failure prone part its going to fail doesn't matter if your stock or have been tuned for 100k miles
Especially since APR has stated that they do not touch the fueling on their tunes and have stated they use the factory spec as far as fueling goes, i know your not knocking APR but tuning companies do take in account what the limits of certain parts are to make it less problematic for the customer as much as possible


im a tech @ a vw dealer. vw has been having problems with the fuel pressure sensor in the new tsi motors. they make us check the part numbers on the old one and replace it with an "updated part" with a different number. the sensor causes a lack of power at times and in some cases a MIL. This could be your problem but im not 100% on that without looking @ the car.


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## lextildeath (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: (dubbinASE)*

When did this bulletin come out? VERY interesting to see if this will help.
Patientlywating had his broken HPFP replaced and still has the problem.
Maybe it makes sense that the fuel pressure sensor could be messing up the pump.
This sounds like were getting somewhere now. We all need to explore more.


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## lextildeath (Jun 18, 2008)

Oh I'm bumpin this **** again like a mother ****er.
I sell VW's I asked the service manager about this - hea said he heard something from VW about the fuel pressure sensor.
I spoke to one of the techs and he said he has replaced the HPFP because the needle in the pump breaks.
I will post more updates soon, i might even get pics of these bad boys all cut open with part numbers and all.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: (lextildeath)*

Get any information you can!
Is this just a "check it when somebody complains" or is this a TSB?


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## dubbinASE (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: (ViRtUaLheretic)*

its sort of like a tsb but they call it an open bulletin. if a car comes in and its under warranty and under the history of the vehicle if the sensor has not been replaced they want us to check the part number and see if it has the updated part or not. if not we replace it @ no charge. there is no vin, year or engine model brake down to which cars have the new or old style. i think sept of 08 is the cut off. Oh and by the way i have also seen a few of the cam followers for the hpfp freeze or get stuck from time to time. this causes the cam follower to go from a rounded shape to a u shape. it also makes the diamond shaped lobe on the cam that drives it totally round shaped. In other words a major failure. The vehicle will still run, but lack of power @ all times, and a hard MIL light. If this kind of failure occurs vw usually puts a new crate motor in the vehicle under warranty of course. its easy to check the hpfp with the vag 5150.


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## eric brower (Oct 7, 2008)

*Re: (dubbinASE)*

would this issue also cause a low oil pressure light intermittently? i had my motor replaced at just over 5,000 miles due to a low oil pressure light.


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

*FV-QR*

This is great info guys. I have had my HPFP replaced, but have not had said fuel pressure sensor checked our replaced, I will have my dealer check mine as soon as possible.


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## dubbinASE (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: (eric brower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eric brower* »_would this issue also cause a low oil pressure light intermittently? i had my motor replaced at just over 5,000 miles due to a low oil pressure light.

i have not seen a low oil pressure light on the vehicles with hpfp failures. they replaced your engine cause all the timing chain tensions are controlled by oil filled tensioners, also there are plastic guides that hold the chain in place so to speak. if you have low oil pressure it probly caused your chain to become loose and the plastic guides werent properly lubricated. causing the chain to get eat them up. much like a chainsaw threw plastic.


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## lextildeath (Jun 18, 2008)

Hey do you know the bulletin number? My techhs vaguely know of this but ask of a bulletin number to look up.


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## dubbinASE (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: (lextildeath)*

i'll look into in 2morro


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (dubbinASE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubbinASE* »_i'll look into in 2morro 

Any updates? I looked all over and couldn't find any info. I'd like to post it up if you have any.


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## dubbinASE (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Was real busy @ work 2day. I found out that it only applies to certain motor codes and such. Oh yea and we had a master hpfp failure on a customer car. screwed up the cam lobe for the pump, metal all in the top of the head bad stuff. Its a fsi by the way. 
i got to look for the bulletin/ tech solutions 


_Modified by dubbinASE at 4:41 PM 4-8-2009_


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## dubbinASE (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: (dubbinASE)*

sorry for the delay in reply. the bulletin 24 08 01 201835. is in effect till july 16 2009. the vehicles it applies to; 2006-2007 Jetta 5, Gti, Eos, Passat, Passat wagon, Touareg all with 2.0L Engine and 4.2L engine in Touareg. they break it down by vin but im not typing all that. Malfunction of fuel press sensor G410 causing incorrect FP reading to the ecm. 
I also was looking in the new issue of PVW from the U.K. and found something else that is interesting. A reader wrote in complaining of a stutter mid range when accelerating with a 2.0L TFSI engine with only 32k. the dealer replaced coils and spark plugs and couldn't find the problem. Pvw said that it was most likely a faulty injector due to this failure is becoming more common. they said it causes a misfire between 3ooo and 5ooo rpm.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*FV-QR*

That sounds like the old FSI stuff and not the TSI stuff which is completely different.


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

*FV-QR*

talk about getting my hopes up, thats all fsi stuff


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## btgebo (Dec 10, 2008)

did anyone successfully get this problem fixed? I'm taking my 08.5 gti to the dealer on monday but if there's any new information im sure it would help if I could pass it along.


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## 27psiBoom (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: HPFP Failure ([email protected])*

mike
you mean you do not touch the HPFP voltage on stage I and II files?
how much boost does your ST-I SW request at 6.5k?
Altering HPFP voltage map could lead to a HPFP premature failure


_Modified by 27psiBoom at 6:40 AM 4/24/2009_


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: HPFP Failure (27psiBoom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *27psiBoom* »_mike
you mean you do not touch the HPFP voltage on stage I and II files?
Altering HPFP voltage map could lead to a HPFP premature failure


Correct. There is no 'voltage map' alteration.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
In reference to the APR TSI (CCTA and CBFA) Stage 1 and Stage 2 software, we do not touch anything related to the fuel pump or fuel pressure control. The fuel rail pressure with the Stage 1 or Stage 2 engine calibration is the same as stock throughout the entire RPM and load ranges. In addition, unless there is already an inherrent malfunction in the specific vehicle, there is no way to add additional “load” onto the solenoid (N276) just because you are chipped.


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Im confused. if the engine is boosting more psi, wont it be necessary to request more fuel?


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## GLIzzie (Sep 6, 2007)

my hpfp may be on its way out







...
ran some logs today and only hit ~130bar in my first run, and dropped to ~120 by the second run.. no cel or anything, so i guess i just have to wait for it to fail now lol


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

*Re: (GLIzzie)*

did anyone ever figure out what the issue was? It doesnt happen very often to me, but I just had it happen again once last week (went stage2+ since my first posts) and it was going into 4th gear at like 5k going up a hill


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## psychlow (Sep 21, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (PatientlyWaiting)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PatientlyWaiting* »_Im confused. if the engine is boosting more psi, wont it be necessary to request more fuel?

Yes, but this is done through injector pulse time (not fuel pump pressure) changes, if I understand correctly.


_Modified by psychlow at 6:46 AM 8-31-2009_


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (Slayer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Slayer* »_did anyone ever figure out what the issue was? It doesnt happen very often to me, but I just had it happen again once last week (went stage2+ since my first posts) and it was going into 4th gear at like 5k going up a hill


bumping this for an answer, i just had this happen twice in the past 3 weeks, same scenario, in 4th coming onto highway at about 3/4 to full throttle shifting at 6k or so into 5th and hits a dead spot after shift for a second then i can reapply throttle.


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: (Ricky Bobby)*

Sound to me that you run too lean. It could be the tune.


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## btgebo (Dec 10, 2008)

its not the aftermarket chip. still gettin that issue but ive recently pushed my settings back to stock and havent experienced it yet. dealership is still no help


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## wildeman940 (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm not sure if i'm experiencing the same problem. I've got a stage 1 2009 CC and after every shift i'm getting dead spot for like half a second and then the power comes on full force.


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## btgebo (Dec 10, 2008)

the issue seems to generally be a "dead spot" during wide open throttle after a hard shift near redline on stage 1 TSIs. Happens with revo, apr, giac. personally this issue happens most often on the second consucutive hard shift (ex. full accceleration thru 2nd and redline shift into 3rd, full acceleration thru 3rd and the shift into 4th will create the dead spot) in temperatures colder than 65 degrees F. Doesnt matter if the engine is warm or not.


_Modified by btgebo at 1:24 PM 11-11-2009_


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ricky Bobby* »_

bumping this for an answer, i just had this happen twice in the past 3 weeks, same scenario, in 4th coming onto highway at about 3/4 to full throttle shifting at 6k or so into 5th and hits a dead spot after shift for a second then i can reapply throttle.



_Quote, originally posted by *btgebo* »_the issue seems to generally be a "dead spot" during wide open throttle after a hard shift near redline on stage 1 TSIs. Happens with revo, apr, giac. personally this issue happens most often on the second consucutive hard shift (ex. full accceleration thru 2nd and redline shift into 3rd, full acceleration thru 3rd and the shift into 4th will create the dead spot) in temperatures colder than 65 degrees F. Doesnt matter if the engine is warm or not.



This sounds exactly like the problem I had with my APR S1 2008.5 3-pedal GTI , which culminated in HPFP failure. I experienced this "throttle lag" between shifts for about 2 months prior. I believe the issue came to a head when I made the mistake of parking overnight in my 60% grade driveway, with only maybe a 1/10th (40miles) of a tank of gas. I tried to start the car in the morning and it would crank but wouldn't catch, I assumed the fuel sender in the tank wasn't where the fuel settled to. I rolled down the driveway in neutral, back to level ground, and it started just fine, no CEL, no EPC, nothing. About a week later on the highway in heavy traffic, the car went into limp mode, no boost. After limping home, the car was very hard to start, and was running what I though to be super lean. I imagine when I tried to start the car in the driveway, a small amount of air made its way into the fuel lines, all the way up to the HPFP where it cause the part to eventually fail. The HPFP was replaced under warranty, and I have had no issues of throttle lag since.


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## btgebo (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (PatientlyWaiting)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PatientlyWaiting* »_

The HPFP was replaced under warranty, and I have had no issues of throttle lag since. 

maybe i'll do a little sabotage because right now my dealership wont touch my fuel pump as they are convinced its the REVO stg 1 causing the problem. where is the godd**** TSB for this issue VW!!!!


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## tCboost60_1 (Feb 2, 2009)

oh god. 2thru3thru4th i occasionally exp. this i believe. -.-


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## btgebo (Dec 10, 2008)

think theres anyway to prove to a dealership that the HPFP creates this?


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Sounds like you guys all have the same problems I had before my HPFP bit the big one. The dealer won't acknowledge the problem until the pump finally craps out


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## kuryis (Sep 1, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (PatientlyWaiting)*

Had it happen tonight, ~25k miles.
On the way to the mall, the car was acting up with the boost loss issue. Then it was running fine.
Came out to an EPC light, no boost, and an "ENGINE FAULT WORKSHOP!" message on my MFD.
GIAC stage 2 for 3 months now, had stage 1 since ~2.5k miles
I will VAG crawl tomorrow when I put some stock items back on for the dealership battle...


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## shucky (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (kuryis)*

I have 09 CC 6spd manny, and definitely have the "dead spot" issue after a hard or redline shift into the next gear. I also have noticed like another poster mentioned in fourth gear on highway if I floor it, I pull strong until about 90 mph then I get pretty significant power loss for a few seconds then I start to pull hard again to redline. Like a surging feeling. I've also a time or two gotten a completely dead shift, whereas I would get no response after a shift at all. Pedal floored throttle never opens, no acceleration. Scared me the first time it happened. And finally, on a downshift to pass a car on the highway I sometimes get a "flat" / "dead" spot when I try to reapply the throttle. In this case, its only a split second but I still feel it. I only have 5K miles on my car with APR stage 1 and Neuspeed intake. Intake on or off makes no difference. Outside temp whether 80 or 40 degrees makes no difference. I thought it was the electronic throttle lagging but now you guys are talking fuel pump. Not sure what to think. I dont drag my car or anything, but sometimes the feeling is annoying when you need to pass someone or if I'm making a little highway run.


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *shucky* »_I have 09 CC 6spd manny, and definitely have the "dead spot" issue after a hard or redline shift into the next gear. I also have noticed like another poster mentioned in fourth gear on highway if I floor it, I pull strong until about 90 mph then I get pretty significant power loss for a few seconds then I start to pull hard again to redline. Like a surging feeling. I've also a time or two gotten a completely dead shift, whereas I would get no response after a shift at all. Pedal floored throttle never opens, no acceleration. Scared me the first time it happened. And finally, on a downshift to pass a car on the highway I sometimes get a "flat" / "dead" spot when I try to reapply the throttle. In this case, its only a split second but I still feel it. I only have 5K miles on my car with APR stage 1 and Neuspeed intake. Intake on or off makes no difference. Outside temp whether 80 or 40 degrees makes no difference. I thought it was the electronic throttle lagging but now you guys are talking fuel pump. Not sure what to think. I dont drag my car or anything, but sometimes the feeling is annoying when you need to pass someone or if I'm making a little highway run. 


IT sounds like you are describing the same problem. Its really only when full fuel load is necessary that the issues is present. Put it in stock mode and see if that makes a difference. At the time my pump failed, I was unable to switch my software to stock mode due to APR not yet releasing the switching capabilities. Maybe in stock mode it wont require as much fuel, the problem is, if it doesn't happen in stock mode, the dealer maybe a little apprehensive to warranty the problem if it only happens in Stage 1.


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## kuryis (Sep 1, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (PatientlyWaiting)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PatientlyWaiting* »_
IT sounds like you are describing the same problem. Its really only when full fuel load is necessary that the issues is present. Put it in stock mode and see if that makes a difference. At the time my pump failed, I was unable to switch my software to stock mode due to APR not yet releasing the switching capabilities. Maybe in stock mode it wont require as much fuel, the problem is, if it doesn't happen in stock mode, the dealer maybe a little apprehensive to warranty the problem if it only happens in Stage 1. 

I tried switching to my stock program last night with my GIAC flash loader. Did nothing. 
EPC, MIL, Engine Fault WORKSHOP! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
I've been having the dead spot issue since I got the car, even stock. I used to have similar issues with my MK4, but I figured it was the N75 acting weird.


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## charlie.macpherson (Jun 15, 2008)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *kuryis* »_
I tried switching to my stock program last night with my GIAC flash loader. Did nothing. 
EPC, MIL, Engine Fault WORKSHOP! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
I've been having the dead spot issue since I got the car, even stock. I used to have similar issues with my MK4, but I figured it was the N75 acting weird. 



go to your dealer right away its the throttle body wiring its a TSB they repaired mine right away


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## txvdub07 (Dec 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (illblood)*

yup having the same issues but no check engine like vw refused to do anything about it till there is a check engine light http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## kuryis (Sep 1, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (illblood)*


_Quote, originally posted by *illblood* »_

go to your dealer right away its the throttle body wiring its a TSB they repaired mine right away

Nice, do you know the TSB #


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## charlie.macpherson (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (kuryis)*

no i dont but they told me to tow my car in they didnt want me to drive it at all


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## kuryis (Sep 1, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (kuryis)*

How about it? I can't find anything on the net about a TSB associated with 2009 GTIs and the throttle wiring you're talking about.
Can any actual techs on here comment about this? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## charlie.macpherson (Jun 15, 2008)

*FV-QR*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4493920


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## kuryis (Sep 1, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (illblood)*


_Quote, originally posted by *illblood* »_http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4493920

High five!


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## charlie.macpherson (Jun 15, 2008)

*FV-QR*

hahaha yea man i bugged the **** out happend to me rite after water fest and i said damn im glad it didnt happen when i was sitting in jersy in traffic


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## txvdub07 (Dec 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (illblood)*

Im having the exact issues as shucky but am wondering why I'm not getting a check engine light







the other day I was all the way down on the pedal an it felt like the throttle body never opened



_Modified by txvdub07 at 5:51 AM 12-5-2009_


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## kuryis (Sep 1, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (illblood)*

OK so all is well.
Intermittent signal from the throttle pedal.








Occurred at 291 rpm (at start up).
Ran fine with the stock tune, switched back to the pump tune and I'm actually running 16psi now instead of 15; I'm sure it will learn it's way back down.
To the dealership monday


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Back from the dead. Arin, has anyone figured out this "dead spot" in between shifts. I am starting to have the problem again.


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## twong85 (Aug 24, 2008)

I had my HPFP replaced about 6months ago and started to get this dead spot now in 4th gear and up. So this is because of throttle body wiring?


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (PatientlyWaiting)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PatientlyWaiting* »_Back from the dead. Arin, has anyone figured out this "dead spot" in between shifts. I am starting to have the problem again. 

how does this compare to what some people might call "turbo-lag" between shifts?


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Def not turbo lag.


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## GLI20V (Mar 28, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (PatientlyWaiting)*









Hey Guys Wow this is weird My Brother is having the similar issue i ran a log of boost last night and it seems high ! The car just doesnt go anywhere and seems like it hesitates a lil but doesnt feel like fuel cut so much ! I raced him from a 40 mph roll in my bpone stock 08 GTI and I just pulled like nothing on him...He has the 3"TBE Cold Air I ntake APR Stage 2....But It was happening before the tune ! ! Any Ideas ? Someone said maybe the DV is stuck ? Here is the log !


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## twong85 (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (GLI20V)*

It looks like the converstion form mbar to psi is wrong in your chart. 1000mbar is around atmosphere so you have to take that out and go off the difference to convert.


_Modified by twong85 at 3:54 PM 3-1-2010_


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## GLI20V (Mar 28, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (twong85)*

Somebody want to help me with this conversion ???


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## twong85 (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (GLI20V)*

Take the ambient pressure by reading the actual value with the engine off.
Then do this to convert to psi on your chart (Actual - ambient)*0.0145.


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## GLI20V (Mar 28, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (twong85)*









Here is the corrected Boost log thanks to twong....Being stage 2 with all those mods doesnt seem like the boost is right ! Requested boost szhould be much higher than that ? Anyone ?


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## NEW2B (Dec 1, 2006)

same problem just happend to me. i have been stage2 for about 5 days. never had this happen to me before and i have been stage 1 for 20k miles. 
while going from 3rd to 4th with wide open throttle the car just lost all power and the gas peddal was dead for about 2-3 seconds, then it just came back. never got a mil. light.
called apr today and they told me to go back where i was flashed to check for any codes.
so now what?????












_Modified by NEW2B at 5:54 PM 3-18-2010_


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## btgebo (Dec 10, 2008)

a recent CEL with code P2015 was thrown in my 08 gti (cbfa) to which the dealership replaced the entire intake manifold. they seem pretty confident this will fix the WOT problem but im not so confident. 
its unbelievable there's no fix for this yet


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## TurboYo (Apr 1, 2010)

what was the code for?


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## btgebo (Dec 10, 2008)

"Intake manifold runner position" 
the new intake manifold did nothing for the problem (no surprise from me) 
can anyone confirm its even the HPFP? i'm pretty close to just trying to replace it myself. damn VW wont seem to acknowledge the problem


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## maotsetung (Mar 30, 2009)

*Re: (btgebo)*

Is there even a aftermarket HPFP for the TSI?


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

*Re: (maotsetung)*

no


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## btgebo (Dec 10, 2008)

put the chip back in and now im getting dead spots during WOT in the middle of the gear like at 4k RPM or so, boost just drops to -5 on my gauge. i cant believe no codes are bein thrown haha.
sorry to just keep updating this thread without any solution but maybe someone will come through and end all of our problems with a damn TSB!


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

*Re: (btgebo)*

its because its cutting the throttle.. throttle plate doesnt open, so you're in vac and no boost


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## lextildeath (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: (Slayer)*

But, why?


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## ryan mills (May 3, 2002)

because your clutch is slipping and the ECU is catching it and trying to protect the clutch hardware. Upgrade your clutch and the problem will not come back.


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *ryan mills* »_because your clutch is slipping and the ECU is catching it and trying to protect the clutch hardware. Upgrade your clutch and the problem will not come back. 


Was there any proof that the ECU has a clutch fail safe? The gear shift throttle lag has not yet been solved, and I still don't believe that the clutch or anything software related to the clutch is the culprit.


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## btgebo (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (PatientlyWaiting)*

its not the clutch. 
someone on this thread had the same symptoms in his TSI before it went into limp mode and the fuel pump was replaced and the problem was solved, or at least i think thats the gist of it


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *btgebo* »_its not the clutch. 
someone on this thread had the same symptoms in his TSI before it went into limp mode and the fuel pump was replaced and the problem was solved, or at least i think thats the gist of it


No that person was me, and it did solve the problem for a little while, it came back, just not as frequently.


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## btgebo (Dec 10, 2008)

oh my.. do you have an aftermarket Diverter valve? i have one just sitting around maybe that would help haha. i mean no one has any idea how to correct this problem so maybe we can start narrowing down the list of culprits


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## ryan mills (May 3, 2002)

*Re: (btgebo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *btgebo* »_oh my.. do you have an aftermarket Diverter valve? i have one just sitting around maybe that would help haha. i mean no one has any idea how to correct this problem so maybe we can start narrowing down the list of culprits

I've narrowed it down. I've been through three DV's The factory valve, the factory piston type, and the AWE manual DV. They all did not fix the problem. I replaced the clutch, and the problem has not come back. AS far as Programming, I've been through two different APR programs, and three GIAC programs. I've been through three different downpipes as well. All had the same issue with the throttle cutting out when shifting into fourth. I've logged this many times. I could replicate the problem daily. Now the problem has not come back. I believe that my logic is sound. Knowing now that Porsche has similar protection programs, it makes sense to me.


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## btgebo (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: (ryan mills)*

any idea how the dealership could tell if my clutch was slipping or not?


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## RRONAN (Apr 18, 2010)

*Re: (btgebo)*

Having a similar issue under wot and now the car tossed a CEL. I'm kinda hesitant to take it back to VW but it looks like I may not have a choice because I need someone to read the code. Everyone says I need to drop another $600 on a HPFP from APR but not sure I that is justified at this point. The car has 2k miles and not sure if the vw dealer would even look at the car at this point because of the stage 1 APR flash.
APR stage 1 91oct program is what I use with 92 oct in the tank.


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## twong85 (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: (RRONAN)*

I don't think APR makes an HPFP for our engine. Do you have the security lockout option? You could just take it into the dealer running the stock program and locked. Just make sure the code is still being thrown or else they might not want to look at it.


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## TurboYo (Apr 1, 2010)

ryan mills said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *btgebo* »_oh my.. do you have an aftermarket Diverter valve? i have one just sitting around maybe that would help haha. i mean no one has any idea how to correct this problem so maybe we can start narrowing down the list of culprits
> 
> I've narrowed it down. I've been through three DV's The factory valve, the factory piston type, and the AWE manual DV. They all did not fix the problem. I replaced the clutch, and the problem has not come back. AS far as Programming, I've been through two different APR programs, and three GIAC programs. I've been through three different downpipes as well. All had the same issue with the throttle cutting out when shifting into fourth. I've logged this many times. I could replicate the problem daily. Now the problem has not come back. I believe that my logic is sound. Knowing now that Porsche has similar protection programs, it makes sense to me.


 I wouldn't doubt the problem has to do with them protecting the clutch. What I want to know is why theres no way for these flashes to get rid of the problem, bypass the signal to the clutch or anything! let my stock clutch go thats fine and dandy then Ill feel like I have a reason to upgrade, but this? this cutting throttle BS.. I mean it goes as far as being a safety hazard.


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## vitahernandez (Jul 18, 2010)

patientlywaiting said:


> since i chipped my car with the apr 93 program 4 months ago i have noticed a very infrequent, but annoying issue. The problem happened when driving the car hard, shifting quickly from 3rd to 4th or 4th to 5th at about 5500-6000 rpms. When the car engages the next gear it won't make boost, i.e. It will only boost to 3-4 psi until i take my foot off the pedal, wait a moment and re-apply the throttle. So what i though was a failing diverter valve was actually fuel cut caused by a dieing high pressure fuel pump. The first signs of the problem occured at 12500 miles and at about 14500 miles the hpfp failed, causing a cel and making the car run super lean. My dealer was surprised the car actually ran when i brought it in. Luckily my friendly dealer couldn't prove the tuning program caused the failure and it was replaced under warranty. After the hpfp was replaced the quick shift boost loss issues were resolved. Anyone else have a hpfp die yet?


do u remember the code that came up ?? Having some of the same issues!! Thanks


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## Boosted2003! (Mar 10, 2009)

This is true but I have heard of a fuel pump replaced on a TSI after 5k. Has only been one so far at my dealership and this was last year sometime it happened. Also heard of a waterpump being replaced.


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

vitahernandez said:


> do u remember the code that came up ?? Having some of the same issues!! Thanks


 Not off hand. It was like 18 months ago. I can try to dig it up somewhere, but no promises.


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## thecarp (Aug 8, 2007)

I have my stock pump go out on me around 38,000 miles (CBFA/DSG) about a month ago. After VW replaced the pump and sensor, it's been fine so far, but my car just sound the same any more. After read a bunch of posts, it seems that our engine has a problem when it comes to the fuel pump. Just wanted to give my two cents.


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## Helltime (Jun 3, 2009)

Looks like the thread pretty much died after 2010. Is this still an issue on the newer tsi cars? And was the issue HPFP or clutch protection?


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## SourKrout (Oct 17, 2008)

My HPFP went bad at roughly 5,000 miles and the same day the car got an APR Stage 2 tune. Coincidence? Possibly. Maybe the pump was failing prior the tune but I don't fully buy what Mike says based on my experience. Got tuned, made it half way back home and the car went into limp mode with low fuel pressure codes and no boost. 

On a positive note I'm at 22,000 miles now with no further problems :thumbup:


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## mike000 (Jun 21, 2008)

Revo Stage 2 and 75,000 miles. no issues whatsoever =)


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## Audi'sRevenge (Mar 24, 2008)

This thread seems to have started some time ago so I'm not sure if I posted already but yeah I had my HPFP fail too, completely stock engine, failed at what was probably around 30k kms I think but I cannot remember right now the exact mileage. 2008 A3 with the CCTA motor. It has been fine since then *knocks on wood* and I`m at about 80k kms now.

When it failed I remember the car drove fine until just about 2000rpm. Above that it was like the engine cut out. So I drove around for a few days just keeping it at a max of 2k rpm before upshifting while I was waiting for a service appt (it happened on a weekend). Funny thing was I was still quicker away from lights than most Corollas, Civics, et al, LOL.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

PatientlyWaiting said:


> Since I chipped my car with the Apr 93 program 4 months ago I have noticed a very infrequent, but annoying issue. The problem happened when driving the car hard, shifting quickly from 3rd to 4th or 4th to 5th at about 5500-6000 rpms. When the car engages the next gear it won't make boost, i.e. it will only boost to 3-4 psi until I take my foot off the pedal, wait a moment and re-apply the throttle.


Sounds like soft limp mode to me.


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## chuckster1 (Mar 7, 2001)

Not sure if this is relevant, but a few weeks ago my fuel line burst on my way to work. I kept smelling gasoline, but thought maybe it was an industrial smell in the air as there is a PPG plant near me. Kept driving and came to a stop and noticed steam coming from under the hood. Not black steam but more like water vapor. I was concerned but figured since I had not been on the road long it might have been condensation, since it was cold out, from the engine warming up. Kept driving. Every time I stopped I saw the steam again and was still smelling gas. Got to work and popped the hood. Something was leaking but stopped. Made an appt. with the dealer since it's a CPO still under warranty. Left a few hours later and decided to start it up and then pop the hood. Definitely fuel coming from the top of the engine in a mist-like form. Decided to drive to the dealer anyway. Stupid? Maybe. But I got there in one piece. He took a look and the fuel line had blown somewhere near the top of the engine. Part was ordered and they gave me a loaner until the next Monday when it was fixed. They never told me what happened. Maybe a rock? Hard to say because it seemed to be coming from the top. 

So, could the HPFP have become too pressurized and blown the line?


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## vwsizematters (Sep 24, 2011)

*Hpfp failure*

I own a 08 gti mainly stock, I have a Eurojet boost gauge and a injen intake.
Just last week my car started rough cold cranks, then during daily drive it has no boost during heavy load. It peaks at 2 psi and check engine light is on.
I have gotten it back from the dealership. They said it is the high pressure fuel pump, and other lines that they said need to b replaced I am told the charges to this are 700$ to do this and most of the $ comes from the parts. The hpfp is apparently 400$ rounded up. If this is such a commen issue how come we can not get this covered under warranty? 

I'm at 54k miles right now and I'm the second owner. And seems there is no way around this bill of install from the dealer. I'm disappointed in the quality so far right now, I wasn't expecting to drop money into this car so soon of two months of ownership. I would have gladly spent this money on a chip or something I rather enjoy looking at

Out of anyone who has already changed this failure, how long is this fix good for? Am I going to need to keep money aside for this in another 20k Miles?


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## burdman (Oct 28, 2014)

*2011 gti 85k*

Hpfp failed, roller follower good,replaced hpfp and failed miserably 5 minutes into test drive. Both times the piston sheer ed from the valve. Parked..


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## saker753 (May 16, 2019)

hey guys,

quite a dead thread but I´m experiencing similar problems with my MK6 TSI, CCZB, Stg 1...car pulls great in 2nd, shift to 3rd in redline and nothing, there is no power...other times it pulls in 3rd and start to cut off around 5000RPM...Rail fuel pressure drops to 3,5 bars when this happens, sometimes it drops only to 70 for example...highest requested is 160 bars, it comes there, holds and then cut off...


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