# VF to C2



## GINCH (Sep 26, 2000)

This question is for anyone that originally had a VF Supercharger kit on their VR6 and switched to C2? I currently have a stage 3 VF and am thinking of switching to C2. I emailed Chris and he mentioned I need to do the following things:
-30# injecotrs
-2.75" pulley
-C2 OBDII 30# eprom
-C2 95 mm maf housing
I'm wondering if anyone else has made the switch?
I was super happy with my VF stage 1 but after sitching to stage 3 i'm not happy with the driveability of the kit (idle, cel, backfiring etc)
I've heard nothing but positive things about C2 and their software and am wondering if its worth it to spend some money and give the C2 stuff a try.
What are your thoughts???








Cheers
Derek


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## hogis (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: VF to C2 (GINCH)*

I got the reply that they didn't have a solution unless I relocate the MAF to before the charger.. Which I thought it allready was


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## GINCH (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: VF to C2 (hogis)*

The Maf is before the charger with VF so all is good according to C2!
Anyone else have any thoughts?
Derek


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

*Re: VF to C2 (GINCH)*

derek - contact slc92 on here. thought he has a corrado, he may be able to help you out.
after seeing your bay, it makes me want to intercool my setup even sooner http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Dubbed_Monk (Feb 18, 2004)

*Re: VF to C2 (-THROTTLE-)*

Looks like the only thing you would need to convert to the c2 software would be the chip and the maf housing.
Do you know what that would run?
This looks to be a good alternative to the giac software that comes with the vf kit. I know slc92, is running a c2 chip on his distributor set-up, vf stage 2+ with good results.
I had the same issues with idle and cel, but on stage2, if I continue to have the same problems when my upgrade is done, I too might look into the c2 software.
Not sure if this is true or not, I heard you can tune the c2 software (advance timing and so) which would be helpful for me to take full advantage of w/m.
If anyone has a c2 chip with their vf kit (obd2), I too would like to know how it's running. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: VF to C2 (Dubbed_Monk)*

i also want to know some info on this.
my idle is lumpy all the time and my car cuts off when coming to a stop after boost...
same thing, the maf is before the charger but still, i dont get a CEL but my idle is crap. kinda irritating how it keeps cutting off
im running stage 2 VF charger kit, with the GIAC software...


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## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

*Re: VF to C2 (eurobred)*

your maf could be to close to the charger inlet, and where the boost diverts back into the intake. that will cause it to surge at a low rpm also usualy, and bad gas mileage


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: VF to C2 (eurobred)*

talk to Steve B. "slc92" on here. he is a C2/VF pro


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: VF to C2 (websaabn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *websaabn* »_your maf could be to close to the charger inlet, and where the boost diverts back into the intake. that will cause it to surge at a low rpm also usualy, and bad gas mileage









IM sent


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

*Re: VF to C2 (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_talk to Steve B. "slc92" on here. he is a C2/VF pro









his name popped up in here twice in no time...theres a reason for that http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
i dont know if you can change timing with vag com on c2 stuff, but i know you can adjust your idle values which ive done.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: VF to C2 (GINCH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GINCH* »_
What are your thoughts???

i let steve use my C2 30# dizzy chip for ~ 2 weeks, and he ordered it right away. if that doesn't tell you how much of an improvement it was over the VF chip, maybe this will......
he shaved 3/10th off his 1/4 mile time with just changing the chip!!!!!!
C2 is the shizzle!! i currently run their 42# software, and my car RIPS!!!!!!!!!!


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: VF to C2 (-THROTTLE-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-THROTTLE-* »_
his name popped up in here twice in no time...theres a reason for that http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
i dont know if you can change timing with vag com on c2 stuff, but i know you can adjust your idle values which ive done.

wish i could extend my intake so my MAF wont interfere with my idle... its annoying!


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

*Re: VF to C2 (eurobred)*

doesnt vf have a kit to do so? ive got mine precharger with c2 software, no issues. just a slight drop in rpms coming out of heavy boost, but then again i run schrick 268's with only a slight increase in rpms for idle. car doesnt stall though


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: VF to C2 (-THROTTLE-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-THROTTLE-* »_doesnt vf have a kit to do so? ive got mine precharger with c2 software, no issues. just a slight drop in rpms coming out of heavy boost, but then again i run schrick 268's with only a slight increase in rpms for idle. car doesnt stall though

im running schrick 268s also... im not running C2 software, maybe that will help me a little later, but right now i have to deal with the GIAC software making me stall after boost when coming to a stop...


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## 2PointGoGoGo (Sep 11, 2005)

*Re: VF to C2 (-THROTTLE-)*

I am right on par with everyone in here with idle issues and bad gas mileage on my stage 2...


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## GINCH (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: VF to C2 (2PointGoGoGo)*

My stage 1 VF ran flawless. Following are my issues after switching to stage 3.
-Check engine light that keeps returning
-Backfiring like crazy everytime I slowly get back on the throttle after slowing down
-Running rich
-sporatic erratic idle. Sometimes when I come to a stop the idle will bounce around then level off. If I try to start moving while the idle is bouncing, I really need to feather the throttle for it to move ahead 
My fuel economy actually didn't change too much from stage 1 but overall I don't think the car runs as well as it should. We have also checked the operation of the Maf and O2 sensors and they seem to be working properly. 
So, I'm thinking it must be software related. Do you think it would be worth my time contacting VF first to see what they can do before spending quite a bit of money switching to C2?
Derek


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## dossantos25 (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: VF to C2 (GINCH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GINCH* »_My stage 1 VF ran flawless. Following are my issues after switching to stage 3.
-Check engine light that keeps returning
-Backfiring like crazy everytime I slowly get back on the throttle after slowing down
-Running rich
-sporatic erratic idle. Sometimes when I come to a stop the idle will bounce around then level off. If I try to start moving while the idle is bouncing, I really need to feather the throttle for it to move ahead 
My fuel economy actually didn't change too much from stage 1 but overall I don't think the car runs as well as it should. We have also checked the operation of the Maf and O2 sensors and they seem to be working properly. 
So, I'm thinking it must be software related. Do you think it would be worth my time contacting VF first to see what they can do before spending quite a bit of money switching to C2?
Derek


definitely, give them a chance to better your experience before you give up on them. there could be a chance you got a bad chip or something wasn't loaded properly. id also try and reset the ECU, adapt the T-body and let everything kinda relearn itself, but give them a call and they may have a fix or at least try and figure out what problems your having and how they can help.


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## GINCH (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: VF to C2 (dossantos25)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dossantos25* »_

definitely, give them a chance to better your experience before you give up on them. there could be a chance you got a bad chip or something wasn't loaded properly. id also try and reset the ECU, adapt the T-body and let everything kinda relearn itself, but give them a call and they may have a fix or at least try and figure out what problems your having and how they can help.

Yeah thats what I was thinking too. There must be guys out there that have solid running VF Stage 3 vr's? 
I'm not in it for all out power anyways. I don't race or street race. I just want a flawless running car though. It bugs me when things aren't right!
Derek


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## Dubbed_Monk (Feb 18, 2004)

*Re: VF to C2 (GINCH)*

I think you should give vf a call, they might be able to help.
I can't deny, top notch customer service.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: VF to C2 (Dubbed_Monk)*

Thanks guys. I have a distributor Corrado so I can really only compare that software. My issues w/ the VF/Giac on my car were light throttle hesitation and an extremely lean condition 14.5-15:1 over 4500 rpm specifically. Both issues were totally gone w/ the C2 dist. Corrado chip. VF did work with me but it was just easier to put in a C2 chip. The car was consistently faster in the 1/4 by .3 and 3mph and seat of the pants faster on the street. Looking at my wideband it's easy to see that GIAC tuned more w/ fuel economy in mind. The C2 goes richer sooner as you hit the throttle so a little worse gas mileage but def. more power.
If everything is tight, sensors ok, no problems before stage 3 then IT IS THE SOFTWARE! $300 chip is alot easier/cheaper than a custom tune or standalone. If by chance(i doubt it) it doesn;t work you can sell it for near what you paid.


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## GINCH (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: VF to C2 (slc92)*

So all you did was change the chip?


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: VF to C2 (GINCH)*

C2 #30 dizzy chip is #30 injectors, stock MAF, stock 4 bar FPR
VF stage 2 is #30 inj., stock MAF, and 4bar so yeah I just swapped chips. I also removed the MAF clamp as C2 doen't use it.
Just make sure you run what C2 rec. injector, pressure regulator and MAF housing wise.
For your car it looks like it's #30 injectors(same as VF stage 2/3) and the MAF housing. Basically you just need the chip and MAF housing.


_Modified by slc92 at 7:49 PM 12-5-2007_


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## GINCH (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: VF to C2 (slc92)*

Thanks man! I guess the VF stage 2/3 already run the same #30 injectors. Also is the pulley diameter of 2.75 the same? I'm guessing so!
Thanks for the help man!
Derek


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## LeBlanc. (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: VF to C2 (2PointGoGoGo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2PointGoGoGo* »_I am right on par with everyone in here with idle issues and bad gas mileage on my stage 2... 

Tony, since you work for a shop that sells/installs VF kits,
what have they (VF) said?


_Modified by DirtyDisco. at 12:25 AM 12-6-2007_


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## 2PointGoGoGo (Sep 11, 2005)

*Re: VF to C2 (DirtyDisco.)*

unfortunately, I have not, I have actually just been replacing a couple of parts that have be on there way out the door for sometime, and I really don't have the money considering it is the holiday season, so I didn't bother.
I went through and did the VF update, replaced my pan (because that allen screw they give you always leaks), put on a skid plate, and bought a new MAF. all is installed but the new MAF, I am hoping that will take care of some of my fueling issues and idle problems, considering I have had to clean out my MAF about 5 times now and I think it's about done. No big deal, it's been on the car for almost 10 years now. I really have no room to complain.


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## Lew_Dog (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: VF to C2 (2PointGoGoGo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2PointGoGoGo* »_ all is installed but the new MAF, I am hoping that will take care of some of my fueling issues and idle problems 

Get on that spanky!!


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## LeBlanc. (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: VF to C2 (Lew_Dog)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lew_Dog* »_
Get on that spanky!!









so he can get it next!


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## Lew_Dog (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: VF to C2 (DirtyDisco.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DirtyDisco.* »_
so he can get it next!









Let's just say, there may be a roadtrip to Louisville in the Spring...


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## 2PointGoGoGo (Sep 11, 2005)

*Re: VF to C2 (DirtyDisco.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DirtyDisco.* »_
so he can get it next!









I'm sorry I am not following, what are you getting at?


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## Dubbed_Monk (Feb 18, 2004)

*Re: VF to C2 (2PointGoGoGo)*

Decided to bring this back from the dead, to see if any obd2 vf owners decided to switch over to the c2 chip.
Anyone out there decided to switch over? If so I would like to hear some feedback on how their cars are running.
Thanks


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## BIG DUB (Feb 13, 2001)

i have the vf software now and also just got c2 software but have to fix the tranny then i'll see how it runs with the c2 stuff


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## GINCH (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: (BIG DUB)*

Bump again! Ordered the C2 chip and Maf so hpefully see if that makes a difference. Anyone else switched chips yet (obd2)?
Cheers
Derek


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (GINCH)*

switching chips is real easy. cant go in wrong. 
maybe sure you got silicone couplers to go up to the 4in MAF too.


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## mr bob dubalina (Apr 30, 2008)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*

I'm having exactly the same problems with my stage 2 VF kitted 2.9 Golf. It hunts and stalls after boost, smokes at idle. I sourced a used maf which helped with the idle and the smoking but has not completely solved the hunting. VF are saying disturbance of air flow could be causing it... They suggested moving the air filter further than the maf. 
I didn't think there would be so much fiddling around to get it to run right http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
Very interested in hearing more about progress with the C2 chip and or people that have got their stage 2/3 kits running properly. 


_Modified by mr bob dubalina at 11:51 PM 10-3-2008_


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## 16vg60jay (Nov 25, 2004)

I had similar problems myself. Had to relocate the maf further away from the charger and that solved it!


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## VW Acolyte (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (16vg60jay)*

i have heard you cant get C2 stuff for superchargers anymore. i do know they have switched to turbos and there are no supers listed on their web site anymore. which sucks cause i wanted their set up over VF's


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## mr bob dubalina (Apr 30, 2008)

how did you manage that? we looked at moving maf with bends but on the right hand drive car there is no where to go without fabricating a pipe to run along behind the front lip. . . . do you have pics of it?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*FV-QR*

I went with VF a month or so after they released it for the MK3 VR6 and quickly lost interest as I wanted more power and they hadn't developed any additional stages yet. 
That's when I started getting smaller pulleys made and custom tuning by Jeff/C2. All I can say is that it was the best decision I ever made. The car was much crisper at part throttle and smoother overall.
I am a moderator so I'm sure I'll get yelled at my somebody for voicing my opinion but it is what it is. I (personally) had a great experience with that tuning. Both outfits are top-notch but my experience with C2 was much better.
Of course, there is no denying that I wanted power...as I have left SC a long time ago for T.


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## mr bob dubalina (Apr 30, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (nater)*

I am still having problems with my VF stage 2 kit. Running like a hairy dog down low,l bouncing and stalling. Now it has taken to blowing off the plastic intake pipe!! upon closer inspection the intake pipe has melted and deformed... I have emailed VF and got NO RESPONSE!! Car is unreliable and worse than the beater I had when I was 16. Really unhappy and feel like binning the kit.... I would be keen to see some photos of anyone that has managed to relocate the MAF. I have heard there was a relocation kit available from C2?


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## Flyweight (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: (VW Acolyte)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW Acolyte* »_i have heard you cant get C2 stuff for superchargers anymore. i do know they have switched to turbos and there are no supers listed on their web site anymore. which sucks cause i wanted their set up over VF's

While you can not get the C2 Motorsport designed supercharger kits from C2 anymore you can get their supercharged software. 
The difference between the supercharger software and the turbo software:
The supercharger software has a higher idle to compensate for the extra drag at idle. Thats it according to C2.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (mr bob dubalina)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mr bob dubalina* »_I am still having problems with my VF stage 2 kit. Running like a hairy dog down low,l bouncing and stalling. Now it has taken to blowing off the plastic intake pipe!! upon closer inspection the intake pipe has melted and deformed... I have emailed VF and got NO RESPONSE!! Car is unreliable and worse than the beater I had when I was 16. Really unhappy and feel like binning the kit.... I would be keen to see some photos of anyone that has managed to relocate the MAF. I have heard there was a relocation kit available from C2? 

The piping you speak that has melted is the section that goes from the charger to the intake??? This tends to happen and most people tend to have a fabrication shop make up a metal replacement. 
bouncing idle and stalls tend to be the ISV acting up. Unplug your ISV and see if that helps a bit, you will have to close the door inside it in order to idle properly. 
What is the condition of the MAF? It must be clean any oil/water that hits the sensor will cause a missfire feeling. 
A bad o2 sensor will cause it to buck and stall and have poor milage. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Flyweight* »_
While you can not get the C2 Motorsport designed supercharger kits from C2 anymore you can get their supercharged software. 
The difference between the supercharger software and the turbo software:
The supercharger software has a higher idle to compensate for the extra drag at idle. Thats it according to C2. 

The turbo and supercharger tunes are the same. For supercharger use you tend to need to back off on the fueling a little bit.


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## CuRide (Nov 30, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (DeckManDubs)*

I got C2 chip a couple months ago for my vf stage 2 kit on coilpack/ obd1 vr6. I have no air/fuel meter but it seems to be rich at idle and you can smell the gas fume at starting. My exhaust sounds much deeper with this rumble sound that was not there before. CEL stills come and go but doesn't seem to effect the performance. Yes it pulls harder, and no longer have that intermittent stalling problems whenever off the pedal.

Regarding the ripped plastic tube from charger to your MAF. I went to local automotive store and got an intake tube that can be stretch out up to 30in and looks pretty much like the vf piece, except they have variety of colors available and only cost $20, so I bought 2


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## mr bob dubalina (Apr 30, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (DeckManDubs)*

I have replaced the MAF and that seemed to improve it. It is still bouncing and stalling though but no where near as bad. 
I want to go stage 3 but not till I can get 2 running right. 
Is the ISV the idle sensor on the throttle body? 
I am really interested in the toothed belt set up to stop the belt slip. I am in New Zealand so there is no way I could have it installed in your shop lol. I have access to a VW guru with an engineering shop though who is more than capable of fitting it.... Just waiting for the exchange rate to come right though


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (mr bob dubalina)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mr bob dubalina* »_I have replaced the MAF and that seemed to improve it. It is still bouncing and stalling though but no where near as bad. 
I want to go stage 3 but not till I can get 2 running right. 
Is the ISV the idle sensor on the throttle body? 
I am really interested in the toothed belt set up to stop the belt slip. I am in New Zealand so there is no way I could have it installed in your shop lol. I have access to a VW guru with an engineering shop though who is more than capable of fitting it.... Just waiting for the exchange rate to come right though









OBDI ISV is this and it not part of the TB








OBDII does not have an ISV.


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## GTI_Quest (Nov 2, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (DeckManDubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DeckManDubs* »_

OBDII does not have an ISV.


Thanks, I would have gone crazy looking for this in my obd2


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## mr bob dubalina (Apr 30, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (DeckManDubs)*

Thanks, I will give it a try and see how it goes with it unplugged.
Failing that I will have to see about relocating the MAF. Being right hand drive there is not too many places to relocate it without going all the way across behind the chin or something...


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