# New Phaeton owner, an unloved car being brought to it's former glory



## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

Let me introduce myself
I'm an Automation engineer my hobby/obsession is anything to do with cars, I'm currently building a F430 ferrari replica. 
8 years ago my partner was on the look out for a new company car, I heard about the Phaeton, so we went to the nearest Phaeton approved dealership, tested the car and was very impressed with the 3.0ltr tdi, she ended up with a Mercedes due to the depreciation factor. My fascination with the car never wained, but I was never in a position to afford one. A few weeks ago a private dealer said he was taking a phaeton in part ex and it was going to be cheap, I bought it


Now the story begins
Faults so far discovered

Cracked screen- replaced
Abused 19" alloys, two cracked- fixed and refurbed
Top trailing arms and drop links rubber bushes knackered - Done
Rear auto boot lid not locking or working- done
Front speakers on 8 channel media sytem knackered- to do
Side mirror powder coating flaking off- to do when doing speakers
Mirror adjuster knob faulty- requires inspection, adjusts both mirrors when drivers side selected and fails to fold mirrors, vagcom carrires out actions without fault
Brown injectors letting by exhaust gas on nearside bank- to do
Vibration on lock when pulling away, checked drive shafts, seem okay but output shaft on front diff crown wheel has excessive float, no vibration when pulling away straight

Engine and transmission to come out next year
Transmission oil change+filters- to do
Cam chains tensioner noise- to do 
Rear crank oil seal leak (very slight) to do
Front diff crown wheel end float inspection

I'm sure I'll discover some more problems as I go along, do I still like the car? without question .. Yes, comfort and power is second to none.
Darren


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Hi Darren - welcome.

sounds like you won't need much advice on how to go about things.. just maybe the ability to cream off some of the knowledge and experience of the forum.



Dangerrous said:


> Mirror adjuster knob faulty- requires inspection, adjusts both mirrors when drivers side selected and fails to fold mirrors, vagcom carrires out actions without fault


Not sure the first bit here is a fault. I think it's standard that the LH mirror moves with the RH. Very handy for moving them down when reversing into a parking space. Both my Phaetons do this - and there is something in the handbook about it.

Good luck with the rest .

Regards

Mike


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## DavePhaeton (Sep 5, 2014)

Hi

Welcome to the forum, you are in the right place for asking questions and gaining knowledge, the guys on here have been very useful to myself, I've also recently purchased a Phaeton with various issue's admittedly not as serious as yours.

What year and mileage is yours - I'm hoping you got it really cheap with all you've mentioned that needs attention.

Dave


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Darren,
Welcome on-board! :thumbup:

Gabriel


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

The old girl (2005) has done 164000 miles, It's immaculate inside, and quite good outside. £3000

Extra problems, Knackered remote key- this looks like it's been apart a few times, there's no battery and the three buttons don't match up to the circuitry, the transponder is wrapped in paper to get it close enough to the receiver, but at least I've got a valet key.
The exhaust workshop icon has popped up with the engine management light, I'll investigate this later, there seems to be various thoughts on this one, just hope the particulate filter is okay or just needs burning off. Partner's new mondeo had an issue with this, ford know of a problem with their filter system and just advised her to do more long journeys, she does 30,000 miles a year! 
D


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## snapdragon (Aug 8, 2006)

Dangerrous said:


> The old girl (1995)...


1995?


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

Oops

2005


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

Well this weekend I took the opportunity to have a look at the audio system, the 8 channel amp clarity on the front speakers was awful. I removed the door cards and looked at the mess in disbelief. Someone had wired up the sub output to the mid and treble speakers! I set about stripping back all the wiring soldering and heatshrinking cable extensions, I then checked the output of each channel, perfect. The poor old tweeters were fried and one of the mids was acting up, luckily enough I've got an A8 I'm breaking and it's still got the premium sound system. I put the tweeters in the door cards and replaced one of the mids. OH MY GOD! This sound system rocks!! 
It looks like the rewiring was all directed to bypassing the mid and top channel outputs, who ever did this just had no idea of reference speaker outputs, 
Another task ticked off the list


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## Arocosia (Apr 24, 2013)

Darren,

You are not alone in wanting the car back to perfect spec.

Sorted out various niggles on my one too which includes the ubiquitous cracked alloy and refurbs on 19 inch omanyt original wheels.
Replaced the keyless access system door handles and kessy in the footwell.
The boot closure likewise (seems quite a common problem) and likewise the drop links.

Seemed to go the extra mile having to replace the oil pump and reservice the sump and wasnt laughing much for some time after that problem.

Still even after all those costs factored in I couldnt get near a same spec Audi, Merc or BMW or other for the same year without paying a premium and love the rarity of the car (and the handling) on the road.

Not many cars I have been in where the car wafts you along and genuinely drives you as opposed to the other way round so that is my reason for sticking with the car despite past niggles.

Hope nothing else goes wrong on your one.

Matthew


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

While I was driving last week I thought I'd put it into 'S' mode on the gearbox...... What a change in performance! First as expected the gearchange was sharper and it held the gear for longer, but the engine sound also changed to a more throaty roar, it was almost as if it had a lion shoved up it's tailpipe:laugh:
Needless to say the mpg went down, so I slipped back into drive mode and smiled for the rest of the journey


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Fit some paddle shifters, it takes it up another notch, especially around bends!


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## W8CMP (Mar 20, 2004)

Sounds like you're having a lot of fun and discovering / solving a lot of issues with your new toy.

I have a late 2009 model, and live near Romford in Essex. Would be good to compare the cars sometime...

Chris


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## bobbilly (May 16, 2013)

If you want to change the rear two inner light units ~ I'm going to take a guess that yours have a yellowed reverse lens, I've got a pair (one new, one manufactured in 2011) that I'm currently trying to sell


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

Thanks for the offer, but I've used plastic paste to clean the lense

I've bought a bit of a dog, the work required to put it back to it's former glory is fairly substantial, but can't complain about the price, I'm guessing yours is a typical Phaeton, well presented and problem free.
Would be good to meet up some time in the near future.
D


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

*Replacing Xenon dipped beam bulbs*

Well I've searched around the forum for advice/info regarding this task, found a wealth of info, so I dissmantled the airbox/diesel filter/washer fillup neck and air intake and maf tube as described, BUT NO BULB!

I have a 2005 3.0ltr tdi English dual xenon setup, the igniters sit on the back of the headlamp, to get to the bulbs you have to remove the headlight, this means removing the bumper!

Following PanEuropean and Elswin's instructions this relatively easy tasks takes around an hour



The headlight comes out without fuss, just watch out for the forth screw at the bottom rear of the light, access is through the front using a long torx tool

Here's the headlight out of the car with the forth screw still in place


The ballast igniter and bulb removed



Replacing the bulb is straight forward, don't touch the gas tube, the grease from your hand will produce a hot spot on the glass and crack it!!!!


Here's a picture of the bulbs that were removed from the car, what a muppet, different makes and colour temperatures!!!



Whilst the headlights were out, I replaced the side light bulbs with led units



The extra length is a problem, the slot guiding the bulb into the clear lense is just off centre, you have to be really careful when sliding the extension unit in, the led can miss the lense cup. I would suggest tunring on the side light to check that it's in the lense cup.

Anyway, car is all back together, I've panel aligned the lights and the bonnet. Just required a little patience, I'm now happy with the shut lines

Another job struck off the list 
D


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## DavePhaeton (Sep 5, 2014)

I'm really glad i looked at this post again - as you've done exactly what i'm going to have to do soon, I have a flickering drivers side headlamp bulb which i'm guessing is the early signs that the bulb is on its way out and i too have slightly different colour temp xenons so will be replacing them both at the same time. its nice to see someone else having a problem with fitting SMD side light bulbs, I put a pair in a couple of weeks ago and when one didn't work and i tried to remove it, i lost the bulb inside the light unit :banghead: This will be retrieved when i take the light units off the car. Well done on your pictures they are very informative. :thumbup:

Dave


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

I'm going to be flogged for this, but I bought the xenons of ebay for £26 a pair, they're cheap and probably chinese. Let's see how long they last. I had the 4300k lights, these are good, but given the choice again I may choose the 5000k, any higher and they start to take on a bluish tint.
D


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

*Looking at transmission fluid change*

I'm considering an interim fluid change before I take out the engine and box, I plan to get the clutches replaced amongst other things when they're out, but because of the uncertainty of the fluid I'd like to change the oil and filter, I've read various posts regarding the lifeguard 6 for the 6speed zf box, so I've contacted my trade supplier who has recommended the fuchs equivalent, it's been produced for the Merc transmission

Fuchs Titan ATF 4134 - Mercedes MB 236.14 

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-68895-fuchs-titan-atf-4134-mercedes-mb-23614.aspx

The cost is £123.12 for 20ltrs! this will enable me to carry out the interim and full fluid change on the cheap
1ltr is £10.96

Any comment?
cheers
Darren


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## DavePhaeton (Sep 5, 2014)

Dangerrous said:


> I'm going to be flogged for this, but I bought the xenons of ebay for £26 a pair, they're cheap and probably chinese. Let's see how long they last. I had the 4300k lights, these are good, but given the choice again I may choose the 5000k, any higher and they start to take on a bluish tint.
> D


Yes keep us posted on the performance of the cheap bulbs - I've been looking at the 'Osram Xenarc NightBreaker' replacements after reading lots of good reviews but they are pricey at £65 each compared to your eBay specials 

Dave


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

Had an email from ZF in Germany, the Fuchs fluid isn't suitable for our trans box
I'll keep lookking for some lifeguard6 fluid

Re the xenon bulbs, I suspect the cheap bulbs are that for a reason, but look good at the mo......
D


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

*Exhaust fumes in the cockpit*

I've always had a smell of exhaust in the cabin when stationary which can linger a bit.
I'd previously tried blocking off the exhaust for evidence of a blow anywhere, but nothing. Next step was to try to pin point where the fumes originate from.
I removed the engine cover and started to smell around, It seemed to be coming from the egr valve area, After restarting the car for the 3rd time I saw a puff of smoke from the nearside exhaust bank, I targeted that area.

Here's a picture of the stuff on the exhaust manifold



I stripped it down further and looked around for evidence of the black plastic origins

This is the manifold, intercooler pipe and bracket. Even with an endoscope I couldn't see where this has come from, there's no damage to any gaskets. I'll clean the stuff off the manifold and other bits. 



Anyone had this problem?
cheers
Darren


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

*Update on the to do list*

I've just got the car back from VW, so I thought I'd update my to do list for the car.

It's been a while since I've posted on my original thread, so here goes (not in chronological order)

Xenon lights replaced again for 6100K, these are still the cheap Chinese ones from ebay and are much better giving a crisp clean light without even a hint of blue tint, love em

Allegro is my friend  Purchased a new 8 channel amp nice and cheap, the old one had output issues, hence the mash up of wiring in the front doors, all done

Famed electric close boot wiring harness- a definite weak point, a previous repair (VW's repair harness) had even gone, I made up my own harness, a couple of mixed wire issues, now okay

Engine and gearbox out- Big service time, my old 2005 was pre chain guide upgrade, so a set of new chains and guides, plus all external oil seals, Finding the exhaust gas leak (worn out copper shim washer under injector). Gearbox filter and lifeguard6 grade oil change. SHOULD HAVE CHANGED THE TRANSFER BOX OIL AT THIS TIME AS WELL :facepalm: 
New plenum link arms, 5 min job when engine is out, egr valve check

New groove and slotted discs all round, with mintex pads, front ones done twice, first set were a little warped.

Mirror ali cast mount repainted on the passengers' side, drivers side to be done in the summer

Finally just had my keyless entry/start sorted, the original key was a bit dodgy as I have detailed in another post. I purchased a key from a VW dealership, and they failed to get it working, the second visit had a little drama, the Master technician assigned to my car said the key had to be linked to the car within 28 days of purchase or it's rendered useless ?? well the key was okay and my second visit produced a car with keyless entry and start, oh and remote central locking. I felt like I had just come from the dark ages to the present 

Next job is to get the transfer box oil changed, I just don't have the equipment to do this one, so for £20 an independent specialist will suck out the old oil and replace with the VW stuff I purchased.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi mate, I've done the transfer box ( the torsen diff ) and the front / rear diffs 

If you are using stock VW fluid which is G052 145 to make is G055 145 for the centre diff, it basically has 50ml of Sturaco FM fluid added to it.

I hunted this down and got Bristol Trans to get it in... about £60 for a litre, so it'll last you forever ! ( it's VERY hard stuff to get hold of, however I do know that Merc use it in their diffs too )

VW charge something like £120/litre for the torsen diff fluid !

I used normal Ravenol VSG which is the correct spec & then add the sturaco FM ( it works on the centre diff by making it a limited slip diff ), and stops the standard quattro rumble you get when the wheels are on full lock.

The centre & front are a pain, as I had to suck the fluid out ( got most of it ), then pump in the new stuff.... more of a pain without a proper 2 post lift 

Oh, and don't mention the chocolate injectors ! I had to replace all 6 of mine  ( pretty easy though ! ).


regards,

Taz


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

*centre diff fluid*

I'll check but the VW supplier gave me their diff oil as per the parts list spec £25ltr, this doesn't include the sturaco, I'll email ZF for advice, I might be able to get a sachet of the stuff from them, I'll also tap on the shoulder of an Audi parts guy that seems to be able to get hold of unusual stuff from the VAG group stores, cheers for the heads up.
Darren


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

U welcome mate... But u must put the sturaco in the centre diff... 

I'Ve got the zf pt no', will dig it out when back from pub. 

It's readily avail, but took ages to deliver. 

Most vw dealers have never sold the torsen fluid... Maidstone Audi had never sold a bottle... Hence the £120 per litre


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

had a reply from ZF, they have advised me to use Audi parts dealer for the oil because the additive is already in the oil for the torsen diff. Sweet

Dear Darren Graves, 

the following solution has been found for your request:



Hi Darren 


ZF don’t have a part number for just the additive. If you purchase the torsion diff oil from Audi then it will have the correct % of the additive already in the oil. Once the oil has been changed it can take 80 to 100 miles for it to resolve the problem. 


It is also worth checking the tyres and miss matched and un evenly worn tyres can cause the 4 wheel drive system to wind up

I asked about part numbers:

Details on the oil are listed below depending on weather the box has a split or combined oil supply for the front and torsion diff.



Split oil supply front / rear axle differential:

- Filling front axle differential with transmission oil Castrol SAF-AG4

=> Audi / VW Oil No. N 052145000, Porsche Oil No. 999.917.545.00)

- Filling rear axle differential with transmission oil Castrol SAF-AG4 + 4% Sturaco FM 1992 KS

=> Audi / VW Oil No. G 055145 A2)


Common oil supply front /rear axle differential:

- Filling with transmission oil Castrol SAF-AG4 + 4% Sturaco FM 1992 KS

=> Audi / VW Oil No. G 055145 A2



I'll give the Audi part specialist a call sometime soon
D


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

hmmmm...

Not too sure your ZF contact knows his onions pal !!

Pt no' V671 600 020 is the ZF part number mate !

It's classed as a consumable friction additive, as in such as it degrades over time.

I spent 1yr sourcing this stuff.

Got Bristol transmissions to get it stocked mate.

Your source of info has let you down i'm afraid.

please try to ask them about that pt' number ! It may even jog their memory mate.

Any additive as the oil will drain out when you swap the fluid.

If I had a small bottle, i'd post you 50ml for free !

And DO NOT rely on Audi, they are VERY vague on this subject, as they'll say it's sealed for life, yet on my A6 Quattro, the service schedule says 40,000m for the direct shift box, which is the torsen diff.

HTH


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

NOTE : I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH THESE GUYS, BUT SIMON HELPED GET THIS IN 

http://www.bristoltransmissions.co.uk/shop/product.php?id_product=105

Kind regards.


EDITED : Merc Sell this : 

Mercedes Pt' no is : A0009898203 ( but it's VERY pricey for the 50ml bottle, best to buy a litre ! ).



:wave:


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Hey buddy, did u sort the additive? 

If u need 50ml, I'm sure I can bung u a sample in the post, 

Regards,

Taz 😊


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

not yet, I'm trying to grab some time on my kit car build, the Phaeton is just taking too much of my weekends up.
Darren


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## s2kvondeutschland (Mar 19, 2011)

From Audi TSB 2014241/2:

Customer statement / workshop findings

Vibrations and humming noises from the drive train when driving slowly around tight bends - particularly when manoeuvring with full steering wheel turn.

Affected vehicles: A4, A6, A8 with automatic gearbox and quattro drive (Torsen differential)

Technical background

Friction-reducing additives in the differential oil are reduced (chemically related). At high load (high rev compensation when driving in snow, ice, rain) the friction discs and worm wheel teeth in the Torsen differential are subject to wear.*

This changes the friction and locking values in the Torsen differential and causes vibrations (rubbing) in the drive train.

Measure

Test drive the vehicle. Light vibrations with full steering wheel turn are normal. With stronger vibrations in minor corners proceed as follows:

1. Check the Torsen differential according to the repair manual for damage and oil level.
2. If nothing is found, change the oil of the Torsen differential with G 055 145 A2. Drive the vehicle along lots of bends till the gearbox temperature reaches 80°C and reassess the vibrations.

-

VW/Audi G 055 145 A2 is the FM fluid for the Torsen. Should cost $75-90 USA per liter. 

Joel

Sent from my Chroma Nexus 6


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## Dave Kwatro (Aug 16, 2017)

_Taz_ said:


> hmmmm...
> 
> Not too sure your ZF contact knows his onions pal !!
> 
> ...


Hi Taz,

Sorry to drag this old thread up!

I have spoken to Simon at Bristol Transmissions and they still do the Sturaco 1992 FM additive, but only in 1 litre bottles.

Would you still have some left that I could buy from you? Only need 50ml  

Dave


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi mate, sent you a PM ... hopefully you got it...

Regards.


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

nop 
D


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