# Lc1....pos?



## 2021cc8V (Apr 21, 1999)

So my LC1 (w/ db gauge) decided to act up recently.

Prior, I had it programmed to read wideband just like the other ouput to my ms2 ecu.

Everything read right and grounds were done correctly.


Then yesterday, the db gauge started pegging at 22.2 afr while on tunerstudio it was reading normally.

I tried reprogramming the gauge output but LM programmer would lock up.


Even tried to reload firmware and said it wasn't able to.


My only work-around thus far has been to take the gauge wire and hook it up with the ms2 o2 wire to the only working lc1 output.


So any tips on getting the other output to work again, or is the LC1 that much of a pos?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

2021cc8V said:


> So my LC1 (w/ db gauge) decided to act up recently.
> 
> Prior, I had it programmed to read wideband just like the other ouput to my ms2 ecu.
> 
> ...


The Innovate products are the bottom of the barrel, IMO. Too much fiddling has to be done to set them up, and then they never run right. I vote POS.


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## 2021cc8V (Apr 21, 1999)

yeahhh...realizing that all too much now. :banghead:


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Agreed, got one in my track car, and I second the POS status.

Read that NGK AFX was good. Anyone running it?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I've had one for a couple years now, love it . It's pretty basic, no datalogging, but it is easy to calibrate and can use either the NTK sensor or the Bosch LSU.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

i started off with lc1 also. allthough it worked ok, there were issues at times and sometimes doing the free-air calibration would correct it other times not. i thought about going with the aem wideband when i replaced it but instead went with the newer LM1 by innovate which simplifies the wiring with only 3 wires. it is quicker than the old LC1 i had and works just fine. no datalogging but that is fine with me. also, only $200


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

I don't mind LC-1s, I had some issues with my first one but Innovate warrantied it for me. I like the new MTX-L a lot.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I swore off their junk when I shelled out big bucks for their dual channel LM-2, so I could have a complete tuning console. Two wideband channels, datalogging to SD card, OBD2 interface, the works...and none of it worked. I couldn't trust the wideband channels, since even after calibrating BOTH O2s, if I switched them from channel to channel, the readings would differ. Recalibrating wouldn't fix it either. Then, it wouldn't get a tach signal off a hall-equipped distributor and ballasted 12v coil (like it was SUPPOSED to). Innovate said "Oh, maybe if you purchase this other piece of equipment, it will work". Funny...the documentation for my LM-2 said I could get tach signals from a 5v/12v square wave OR a flyback pulse. DIDN'T WORK.

The pièce-de-resistance was the fact that if I connected it to my 2000 Saturn's OBD2 port, I could check the codes...BUT NOT READ ANY LIVE DATA! As well, it pegged my speedometer and tach at maximum, and flashed all the warning lights while the LM-2 was hooked up. It wouldn't even connect to my wife's 04 Cavalier.

I was lucky to trade it back (at a huge loss) to the shop I bought it from. I bought back my old NGK AFX with the $100 I got back from the shop. Never again will I buy or recommend an Innovate product. Even their forums are nothing but complaints about their products.


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## TheBurninator (Jan 7, 2009)

Really liking the 14point7 wideband. It just works, no grounding issues like the innovate and was easy to install.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

sorry. i meant the new mtx-l. not LM1


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

when they work, they work fine, and i think that LC1 is a great solution for someone who doesnt want a gauge... but if youre putting a gauge in the car anyway, i think the AEM gauge/controller all in one setup is the way to go, and it uses those other sensors too. :thumbup:


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

I love my plx wideband and guage. Great product and company to deal with


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## Stephen McTowlie (Mar 13, 2007)

AEM simpleand works.... 
PLX simple and works...... 
Zieotronix simple to complex...and works.... 

Inovative POS ...every single one ever and there have been 8 pass through my hands,,ALL had problems and flaked out eventualy within 2-4 monthes of normal use...forget track use or road course use...FAIL FAIL FAIL... 
True story


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

Stephen McTowlie said:


> Zieotronix simple to complex...and works....


 this is the only brand id absolutely avoid 

unless theyve changed their case/connector design in the last couple years, but wow... total garbage.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> this is the only brand id absolutely avoid
> 
> unless theyve changed their case/connector design in the last couple years, but wow... total garbage.


 It is garbage connector wise...Seriously telephone jacks??? 
but it never ever failed...not even when i burned the wires from the sensor together and shorted it out....repaired the harness and was good as new again...never any of that crap innovative drama and fault code garbage


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

i move my wideband setups from car to car so the connectors get a real workout. 
the z connector failed a few times, and it burned one of the FETs down once. 

junk :beer:


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## 2021cc8V (Apr 21, 1999)

Noticed that there's now an AEM gauge which is both boost and wbo2. 


Sadly, I'll be using my pos LC1 (w/ db gauge, actually a summit racing rebranded) until it is absolutely FUBAR'd.


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

Replace the 02 sensor, my LM1 (which I have had for over 6 years and have tuned probably 30+ cars with btw) does the same thing when a sensor is dead. 

The lm2 is a great tool, but their high end units had nothing but issues and they basically ignored the complaints and never fixed any of the units (horrible move). I have both the lm1 and lm2 (single channel) and both work reliably without issues. I havnt done too much with the lm2 though. 

Innovate LC1 and mtx series are awesome units, incredibly reliable and the most accurate widebands on the market. I'm not just saying that, there have been several independent tests done with all the widebands on the market, Innovates stuff is on the highest end for accuracy and repeatable results :thumbup:


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

TheBurninator said:


> Really liking the 14point7 wideband. It just works, no grounding issues like the innovate and was easy to install.


 I've been running his first kit (JAW) for 3 or 4 yrs with no issues. And we have a NAW in the race car and that seemed to be real nice too. Just need to get that car running again.


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