# Sportback or Sedan (US Market)



## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

What's your pick here? Trying to keep it as basic as possible right now since we don't really have concrete information about every specification yet. Thought this might be a fun thing to check in on from time to time. 

Pictures subject to change but these are damn hot just like they are.  

Sportback: 









Sedan:


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## brookside (Jan 11, 2012)

Sedan Manual. :thumbup:


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

Still torn, unfortunately I think for sure S-tronic, however slight leaning more towards sedan vs sportback 

I simply don't haul enough big stuff, but having the hatch makes it practical for those odd times 'you wish you had a sportback'


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

I'm in the same boat - While I'd love a Sportback, I certainly wouldn't turn down the sedan.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

djdub said:


> What's your pick here? Trying to keep it as basic as possible right now since we don't really have concrete information about every specification yet. Thought this might be a fun thing to check in on from time to time.


 You should update the first post with the RS3 Sportback vs sedan picture to help decide what we are looking at


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## greg964 (May 4, 2007)

Sportback for me, hopefully in S or RS form. Would prefer DCT but would take a manual.


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## SoSuMi (May 14, 2004)

greg964 said:


> Sportback for me, hopefully in S or RS form. Would prefer DCT but would take a manual.


 Roger that!


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

Sedan, as long as I can apply the Audi base bars (rack) on the car. If not, I will need the Sportback, either way, I am getting one or the other.


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## SoSuMi (May 14, 2004)

JGreen76 said:


> Sedan, as long as I can apply the Audi base bars (rack) on the car. If not, I will need the Sportback, either way, I am getting one or the other.


 I like a rail system because it keeps the fittings off the painted surface. Have you found a way to avoid any scuffing of the paint from the mounts? At one point I had an A4 sedan and the rubber roof mounts for the cross bar did put some visible wear on the paint.


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## [email protected] (Aug 3, 2000)

Manual trans, S version (presumably Quattro), I don't care sedan vs sportback


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## Canthoney (Aug 5, 2012)

Sportback, wouldn't mind sedan though.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

Manual + quattro in something smaller than the B8. Keep the xmas light headlamps.


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## BClear (Jun 18, 2010)

Only interested in the sedan. I would buy another GTI if I wanted another hatch. But I'd rather have an A3 sedan than the MKVII GTI. 

Give me an Ibis White S-Line A3 Sedan with the new 2.0T, S-Tronic, and quattro.


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## dogbolter (Feb 28, 2010)

Sportback only for me. Either a TDI or 2.0 litre turbo. Don't care if manual or DSG. The sedan doesn't interest me as there are dozens of sedans on the market already.


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## JDBVR6 (Dec 29, 2006)

dogbolter said:


> Sportback only for me. Either a TDI or 2.0 litre turbo. Don't care if manual or DSG. The sedan doesn't interest me as there are dozens of sedans on the market already.


 
I 100% concur with said statement. 


Sportback or GTFO! :laugh:


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

Someone refresh my memory. Is the sedan going to be a standard sedan, or a notchback like a mini A7/Euro A5 sportback? I got tired of waiting for an S3 so I have TTS on order to hold me over.


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## asal (Oct 12, 2007)

dogbolter said:


> Sportback only for me. Either a TDI or 2.0 litre turbo. Don't care if manual or DSG. The sedan doesn't interest me as there are dozens of sedans on the market already.





JDBVR6 said:


> I 100% concur with said statement.
> 
> 
> Sportback or GTFO! :laugh:


 I 100% concur with the concurrance above.


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

SoSuMi said:


> I like a rail system because it keeps the fittings off the painted surface. Have you found a way to avoid any scuffing of the paint from the mounts? At one point I had an A4 sedan and the rubber roof mounts for the cross bar did put some visible wear on the paint.


 When I had my B7, the bars came with clear stockers to apply to the surface of the car, protecting it from any abrasion. 

Personally, I cut a microfiber and used it underneath the footprint of the rack. I felt the sticker was more of an eye sore and a poor attempt in solving the issue of any surface scratches. 

I would preffer the sportback w/o the roof rails( to give it a lower roof line apperance) , but the wife thinks it's ugly (and is wrong:screwy so I will gladly go with the sedan. Both are sexy as hell, IMO.


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## India Whiskey Charlie (Feb 15, 2006)

I am not too happy with the fact that all Audi sedans look alike these days. Especially when you see an A4 which looks so much like the A6 now. I don't want to see yet another sedan that doesn't quite identify itself as an A3 because it will look like a mini A4. As such, I vote for the Sportback as it carries over the uniqueness of the A3. As to the transmission, I think we should continue having the choice.


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## docjenser (Jul 13, 2003)

Very simple for me. I am not crazy about the sedan.

Sportsback 5-door with TDI engine, preferably the new 184 hp version, and preferably with a stick-shift. 
Had a new station wagon C220 diesel in Germany as a rental, was blown away by perceived power, actual power and fuel economy.

If AUDI does not sell the sportback cars in the U.S. my next car will not be an AUDI.


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

docjenser said:


> If AUDI does not sell the sportback cars in the U.S. my next car will not be an AUDI.


This. I've decided that the 328/335i/d (F31) will be a good option as well as long as they have an M-Sport option. 










And yes I plan to order something as soon as the right options are available.

The Golf R was going to be an option but I think I'm growing past the Hatchback size. I still will have the Sport Compact sizing but it needs to be longer. (Kids are getting bigger. Need to throw in Lumber, Concrete Bags, Etc.)

Hopefully Audi NA is paying attention here. Clearly the Poll in a good indicator of choice. Hopefully Fourtitude/Vortex will be helping us here. (I know George mentioned he would try.) 

Cheers,
Devin


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## brookside (Jan 11, 2012)

djdub said:


> Hopefully Audi NA is paying attention here. Clearly the Poll in a good indicator of choice. Hopefully Fourtitude/Vortex will be helping us here. (I know George mentioned he would try.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Devin


Today it's all about niche and then carefully devising options within that segment. For example did consumers really need the iPad mini when the iPad already exists? Ask someone who owns one-or both. 
To me there's no question that AoA should fill out the A3 line with at least the same choices as Europe has......and then add to it with more models. Personally I'd like to see a sporty A3(read powerful) hybrid offered asap. 

And generally speaking, I'd love it if AoA had more power within the Audi corporate hierarchy to make sure that US customers are given a wider variety of shopping options.


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## SoSuMi (May 14, 2004)

djdub said:


> This. I've decided that the 328/335i/d (F31) will be a good option as well as long as they have an M-Sport option.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Devin


I'm thinking along those lines as well. However if Audi would stick the 3.0 liter SC engine in the allroad, that would change the equation for me (since I don't expect to see the SportBack in NA).


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## ShawnG1313 (Apr 18, 2009)

Sportsback Quattro TDI, prefrably with the Sportstronic. Sedan doesn't do anything for me, plus I need the cargo room. I currently have a Golf TDI and would like the room and comfort of the sportsback, however quattro tdi would entice me to move up. Sedan only no dice.


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## mookieblaylock (Sep 25, 2005)

but americans only buy sedans, ha ha. Crazy if aoa imported just the sedan and it sold less than the outgoing hatch. I would like an s3 hatch w/ dsg if it's not too pricey


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

mookieblaylock said:


> but americans only buy sedans, ha ha. Crazy if aoa imported just the sedan and it sold less than the outgoing hatch. I would like an s3 hatch w/ dsg if it's not too pricey


I would put money down on the new sedan selling more than the outgoing hatch if they don't bring the hatch. Pretty sure this isn't how Audi will judge success.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

i think this poll shows how different enthusiasts tastes are from the general public. it also shows that americans really do hate to buy manual transmissions.

the sedan will more than double, if not triple the sales of the sportback and 98 percent of those sales will be auto/stronic. if we were in europe the manual transmission would be more than 50% of the sales and the sportback would probably outsell the sedan.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

kevlartoronto said:


> i think this poll shows how different enthusiasts tastes are from the general public. it also shows that americans really do hate to buy manual transmissions.
> 
> the sedan will more than double, if not triple the sales of the sportback and 98 percent of those sales will be auto/stronic. if we were in europe the manual transmission would be more than 50% of the sales and the sportback would probably outsell the sedan.


Agreed. Audi will easily be able to move 12,000-25,000 A3 sedans per year in the US.

As I mentioned before, I would not be surprised at all to see the only quattro+6MT configuration available to us ship in the S3. I still think that our initial options will be:

A3 2.0TFSI 6MT FWD
A3 2.0TFSI S-Tronic FWD
A3 2.0TFSI S-Troinc Quattro

S3 2.0TFSI 6MT Quattro
S3 2.0TFSI S-Tronic Quattro

No doubt a TDI will be added to the mix, but I'd put money on that being an S-Tronic only deal.


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## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

I have always been a die hard 'have to have a manual transmission guy'. Audi has changed that for me. The Audi transmissions are so good that with thier S-Tronic or even thier tip-tronic that in manual mode you can still upshift and downshift at all the exact times that you want to get the power you want where you wanted it.
The beauty of the automatic is that in days when the car has 4 people in it, or you are going out to a nice dinner, or you are sick, or hung over...you can simply put the car in D umb and you have to think about one thing less.

If I were going to have a track car, it would have to be a manual, but on the street where I am usually going to the grocery store or out running errands, the manual mode works very well. I can take that one set of turns very quickly and feel like I was in full control of the car while the rest of the time I have to deal with traffic and a manual would provide nothing but a more difficult situation. Having an automatic also allows your wife to take the car if she needs to.

On sportback vs sedan
The only reason that I am excited about the new S3 is that it is a sedan. I would have preferred it to be a coupe, but a sedan will work fine. If you are over 30 and male, you look a little....off......getting out of a hatchback. Women can get away with it at nearly any age, and people under 30 can get away with it.
I think what Audi did with bringing out a sedan version was brilliant. With the current price of a new A3 hovering at the $40,000 mark (depending on options), the average 22 year old kid, does not have the money to buy that car so, statisticly you would have to wait on a female to buy the hatch and then once it is several years old and traded in, the enthusiast get it.
With them bringing the sedan, it includes the over 30 male audience which (on average) would have the means to buy a new car.

I am not against the sportback at all. I hope they bring it to the US as well. My wife really wants a new A3 Sportback. I am waiting on the S3 sedan.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

Cyncris said:


> I have always been a die hard 'have to have a manual transmission guy'. Audi has changed that for me. The Audi transmissions are so good that with thier S-Tronic or even thier tip-tronic that in manual mode you can still upshift and downshift at all the exact times that you want to get the power you want where you wanted it.


This...I thought I would never buy an automatic, and I have owned 1 in my entire life. Driven multiple automatics since, and it wasn't until I drove the A3 2.0T Quattro with S-Tronic that I fell in love with getting rid of my manual. 

I can guarantee without human error a 1/4 mile time or 0-60, I can ensure I never miss shift, traffic is not a nightmare (traffic jams, and my daily city commute).

Although, maybe, I am just getting old


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

You're just getting old Rudy.  I've never owned anything other than a manual so I'm just waiting for the collective shoes to drop with all the new models coming out - all probably at Detroit. The a3 sedan, the 328d, lexus IS, Infiniti G, CLA diesel? Manual? I really like the idea of a smaller sedan but if Audi doesn't bring the 180 Hp diesel to differentiate themselves from vw I'm probably going with the 328d.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

ShawnG1313 said:


> Sportsback Quattro TDI, prefrably with the Sportstronic. Sedan doesn't do anything for me, plus I need the cargo room. I currently have a Golf TDI and would like the room and comfort of the sportsback, however quattro tdi would entice me to move up. Sedan only no dice.


If you're looking to increase trunk space over the Golf by getting an A3, I don't think you'll gain much. I've had both and the Golf seems much more useable (though on paper the A3 may have greater volume?)


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## greg964 (May 4, 2007)

kevlartoronto said:


> it also shows that americans really do hate to buy manual transmissions.


TT RS is available in US with manual trans only, in Europe it is DCT only. The last two M5s (e60 and F10) were only available in Europe and rest of world with automated manuals, but manual versions were made available in the US due to demand...


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

Over 30 and Male here. I like to go outside and ride bikes, exercise and thrown crap in the hatch. Sorry I'm not metro and want a sedan. Yes, I'm also a business professional and have no worries what people will judge me by, getting out of a Sportback. Not really sure where you went with that but at any rate. Here's to hoping Audi brings both for us. 

Cheers...


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

O and the manual transmission is fun and engaging but also not nearly as performance driven as DSG/PDK/S-Tronic: 2Clutch. The only plus side to manual is that they can handle much more HP past stock and maintain some sort of reliability. (The Dual Clutches are getting much stronger though.)


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## ShawnG1313 (Apr 18, 2009)

Chimera said:


> If you're looking to increase trunk space over the Golf by getting an A3, I don't think you'll gain much. I've had both and the Golf seems much more useable (though on paper the A3 may have greater volume?)


I wouldn't mind an A4 Avant/Allroad as an alternative, however I'm not a 100% sure the next gen will have a wagon and a TDI hopefully they will but I'm guessing in that config your probably looking at mid 40s as compared to mid 30s. 

The passat allroad concept would be an alternative but I don't think it will ever see the light of day in the states and I fear it would be more outback/suedo suv than sporty. 

When I was looking at A3/Golfs it seemed that the sportsback had a bit more usable room with the seats up and quite a bit more with them down as I recall the A3 was longer than a standard Golf in the back, but honestly that was two years and 90k miles ago.


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## mookieblaylock (Sep 25, 2005)

Travis Grundke said:


> I still think that our initial options will be:
> 
> A3 2.0TFSI 6MT FWD
> A3 2.0TFSI S-Tronic FWD
> ...


really, you think audi will sell the s3 right off the bat? Don't they usually conduct a facebook poll, get people excited about some performance variant then promptly announce it's a no go. Whatever happens audi has its work cut out for it because there will be a bit more competition in this segment than previously


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

Just to re-enforce a lot of people's opinion on the Sportback of course too...

Was just getting an oil change, and noticed something at the local Hyundai dealership...

They had many more Elantra GT's then anything else on the lot. Not to mention the Accent GT. Got to thinking, Ford Focus ST? Why would Ford make their 'fastest Focus' here in North America a sportback? Mazda? I don't know if it's the same where you live, but there is a 1:1 at LEAST relationship of the sedan to hatch, maybe better towards the hatch...not to mention the Mazdaspeed3! People who have been driving small SUV's and CUV's are looking to save money on gas, but don't want to completely give up the practicality.

The flip to that of course, Toyota / GM Matrix / Vibe essentially a Corolla, is discontinued only because it was a joint venture. Nissan and Honda do not offer. Chrysler / Dodge simple is in rebuild mode. 

What other players am I missing? 

Yes, I named a bunch of brands that aren't quite considered premium, however, what stepping stone will you provide to those moving on Audi? 

Think too for a second, Lexus CT...they did make the sportback and sedan...the sedan got discontinued here in Canada anyway, and I thought I read on autoblog the sedan too in the US.

Point being, I hope Audi matches up the sedan and sportback and let the sales duke it out. The current A3 was a pain in the butt to buy because I could get a higher quality A4 sedan for the same price and in one configuration for less!

Enthusiast, same as djdub (30 yr old male haha @ kevlartoronto, I'm grumpy old man old if anything), I bike to work, and love my bike, I even biked 100 miles (on a mountain bike) one afternoon last summer. I love to snowboard, and a rack always looked funny on my sedans of past. I went to Ikea once, and had to ask a friend bring their truck over because my S4 trunk wasn't high enough to fit what I bought...it fit however because of the angle I had to put it in, it didn't...if the opening was a tad higher....

I want a Sportback, but will settle for the sedan...but if the Sportback isn't initially part of the North American debut, then I will hold out a year...


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## KnockKnock (Jun 30, 2005)

I think holding out the first year or two is wise if you really want the SportBack. Had I held out one more year I could have had 2.0T Quattro. Good stuff eventually comes, let's hope for the SportBack.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

travis, i agree that the 2l turbo will be offered with 6spd manual fwd/quattro but i would expect that the 2l tdi will be available right from the get go as well. probably with the fwd as it is now and s tronic only. (Too bad) let's hope at least it will come with the higher output engine.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

mookieblaylock said:


> really, you think audi will sell the s3 right off the bat? Don't they usually conduct a facebook poll, get people excited about some performance variant then promptly announce it's a no go. Whatever happens audi has its work cut out for it because there will be a bit more competition in this segment than previously


Ha! I should have clarified: I don't think the S3 will be launched simultaneously, I've heard scuttlebutt that the plan is to launch the S3 within a few months of the A3 sedan launch.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

What kind of power figures are we looking at on the 2.0T?


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

caliatenza said:


> What kind of power figures are we looking at on the 2.0T?


Nothing official yet but it's safe to assume that if the North American spec cars get the 2.0TFSI as the default engine it will be the new 3rd generation shown at the Paris Autoshow in the GTI Concept. That car came in at around 220hp, which is what I'd expect us to get.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Travis Grundke said:


> Nothing official yet but it's safe to assume that if the North American spec cars get the 2.0TFSI as the default engine it will be the new 3rd generation shown at the Paris Autoshow in the GTI Concept. That car came in at around 220hp, which is what I'd expect us to get.


That sounds good to me . How was the previous generation A3 reliability wise?


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## t.oorboh! (Feb 11, 2012)

this is where i'll end up if we don't get the A3 sportback. 



djdub said:


> This. I've decided that the 328/335i/d (F31) will be a good option as well as long as they have an M-Sport option.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## t.oorboh! (Feb 11, 2012)

this is where i'll end up if we don't get the A3 sportback. or an A4 Avant. but i guess there's no chance of that. specially with a stick shift. i hope tosses the enthusiasts a bone in it's quest for sales dominance. 



djdub said:


> This. I've decided that the 328/335i/d (F31) will be a good option as well as long as they have an M-Sport option.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

Putting this back up front since we've seen the Sedan and Sportback in the media now. Please vote if you haven't! I'm still hoping we get an S3 Sportback in the USA. Have a good weekend everyone...


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## cooperrf (Mar 27, 2013)

I *really* want an RS3 sportback or RS4 avant. If my only fast choice from Audi is a sedan I'll buy a competitor's hatch or wagon. Sedans are common and boring and only useful for people and groceries. I want a car that stands out and that can be used for everything I want to carry. :thumbup:


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

cooperrf said:


> I *really* want an RS3 sportback or RS4 avant. If my only fast choice from Audi is a sedan I'll buy a competitor's hatch or wagon. Sedans are common and boring and only useful for people and groceries. I want a car that stands out and that can be used for everything I want to carry. :thumbup:


Not to sound dismissive, but this topic has been discussed to death. Unfortunately, the RS3 Sportback and RS4 Avants won't be making a showing here in the US anytime soon. Audi's current US sales volume is too low to justify the costs of federalization for these models.


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## lotuselan (Apr 9, 2008)

I voted for the sportback manual but would not mind the sedan manual either. 

Yea I agree these sort of polls are useless. It will come to when we go to the dealer and say "Yea I like it a lot but I'm just not sold on the DSG" Hopefully they will relay it back to the factory.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

lotuselan said:


> Yea I agree these sort of polls are useless. QUOTE]
> 
> Yea, the sample size is way too small and because it is posted on an enthusiast website, it does not represent the general public (which is by far the majority).


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

They both look great, I think the Sportback edges out the Sedan by the smallest margins. I would be happy with either one though. If I had to choose, the Sportback would win

Here's a better side by side


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

Rudy_H said:


> Enthusiast, same as djdub (30 yr old male haha @ kevlartoronto, I'm grumpy old man old if anything), I bike to work, and love my bike, I even biked 100 miles (on a mountain bike) one afternoon last summer. I love to snowboard, and a rack always looked funny on my sedans of past. I went to Ikea once, and had to ask a friend bring their truck over because my S4 trunk wasn't high enough to fit what I bought...it fit however because of the angle I had to put it in, it didn't...if the opening was a tad higher....
> 
> I want a Sportback, but will settle for the sedan...but if the Sportback isn't initially part of the North American debut, then I will hold out a year...


Huh? Grumpy old man? Me ?  I have a 2 yr old. She keeps me young. If I'm grumpy it's because I live in downtown toronto.


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

Thanks for the Side by Side picture. It only reinforces how much I want the Sportback. Sigh. I'm bummed since I don't think its going to happen. Here's to hope though! opcorn:


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

VWNCC said:


> Yea, the sample size is way too small and because it is posted on an enthusiast website, it does not represent the general public (which is by far the majority).


X2, would be hard to make a good case for the Sportback based on 50 people on an enthusiast site saying they would buy one. Certain amount of these won't so doesn't mean much if they need to sell thousands.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> Nothing official yet but it's safe to assume that if the North American spec cars get the 2.0TFSI as the default engine it will be the new 3rd generation shown at the Paris Autoshow in the GTI Concept. That car came in at around 220hp, which is what I'd expect us to get.


And the even sexier number is the 3rd gen's 258ft-lb torque. (a massive ~50ft-lbs (20% increase) over previous 2.0T)


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## QwaktastiK (Jul 9, 2006)

Can anyone elaborate on what the DSG trans can handle compared to manual power-wise?

If there's any chance the DSG couldn't handle:
-turboback exhaust
-intake
-ECU flash
...I'd have to go with a manual. But if we're talking it couldn't handle a turbo swap, injectors and fuel pump, well I'd prolly be fine with that. 

I'm a Sportback lover myself, but the S3/RS3 sedan will be the wife's next car for sure. So I'd have to vote for sedan at this point regardless of transmission options. And to be clear, my dream car (for myself) would be an RS3 Sportback 6MT/Quattro.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

QwaktastiK said:


> Can anyone elaborate on what the DSG trans can handle compared to manual power-wise?
> 
> If there's any chance the DSG couldn't handle:
> -turboback exhaust
> ...


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

LWNY said:


> std DSG seem to limit torque to around 250ft-lb, which was perfectly fine on their current A3/S3 cars. I presume they increased it for the S3 w/o doing any enhancements to the car.
> 
> aftermarket tuners tested the DSG to much higher limit, so their DSG tune usually increase the torque limit to beyond the limit of the engine tune.


Ya I don't think this is true anymore. APR has past 350 lbs-ft on their cars with DSG. I think this was more of an initial rumor for DSG when it came out, but major strides have taken place since then. Could swear there was a TT running over 500 lbs-ft, been digging around for it the last bit


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Rudy_H said:


> Ya I don't think this is true anymore. APR has past 350 lbs-ft on their cars with DSG. I think this was more of an initial rumor for DSG when it came out, but major strides have taken place since then. Could swear there was a TT running over 500 lbs-ft, been digging around for it the last bit


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox

Transverse DSGs:
2003 6spd DSG: 260 ft-lb
2008 7sp DSG: 170 ft-lb (designed for smaller displacement cars)
2010 7sp DSG: 370 ft-lb (TTRS)

Longitudinal (quattro compatible):
2009 6spd DSG: 440 ft-lb

A nice post summarizing DSG features: http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f15/dsg-torque-19437.html#post201859 

key excerpt from above:

"The limiting factor of the box is not the gears or clutch packs but the programming of TCM (transmission control module). The DSG TCM is programmed such that, if the input shaft sees more than a certain amount of torque (350 Nm) it tells the ECU to dial down on the engine power."


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Waterfan said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox
> 
> Transverse DSGs:
> 2003 6spd DSG: 260 ft-lb
> ...


I have wondered what all of this means when I see these posts. Do we know for sure that all DSG's are built the same? Basically, because the TTRS's DSG can handle 370 ft lb's does it mean all of them can? No different than clutches from different cars having different capacities. Not saying they are different but I wonder.

I assume VW puts the limit on the control module to keep failures to a minimum, taking off the limit control may or may not be a good idea. Seeing a few cars taken to higher levels doesn't mean the likely hood of failure still isn't high.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

dmorrow said:


> I have wondered what all of this means when I see these posts. Do we know for sure that all DSG's are built the same? Basically, because the TTRS's DSG can handle 370 ft lb's does it mean all of them can? No different than clutches from different cars having different capacities. Not saying they are different but I wonder.
> 
> I assume VW puts the limit on the control module to keep failures to a minimum, taking off the limit control may or may not be a good idea. Seeing a few cars taken to higher levels doesn't mean the likely hood of failure still isn't high.


Those 3 DSGs are all different. The low end 7spd has a dry clutch, the 6spd is the generic one that anything 2.0T and above gets, and the high torque 7spd is a beefed up version for the TTRS and RS3.

As to the artificial torque limit, it is likely a tradeoff between reliability and performance. Even if some aftermarket tuner has tested it beyond 350 ft-lb, it doesn't mean they will just be as reliable when tuned that way. If VAG sets the limit to 350 ft-lb, even if they get an increase in failure rate of 1% (not failures increase by 1%, but failure rate increase of 1%). That becomes alot more repairs under warranty.

That's why the TTRS & RS3's transmission are beefed up, and why the S3's engine (old and new) is beefed up, even though a $500 chip + fuel pump could get the lowly 2.0T to be similar in power to the RS3.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

but I am like 100.1% sure the DSG today is better and can handle a lot more power then in 2003. 
Around 2009 when I was looking around to replace my S4 I was looking at the GTI. At that point it was still rumored to be 250 lbs-ft, but I know there were TT-S' running around 400 lbs-ft and still running fine, because I was looking for this specifically. The GTI only lost because I didn't want FWD

I *believe* in that TT-S there was a TCU tune required though


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## BenGieCruz (Jan 31, 2013)

Which ever is cheaper.....


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## maverickar15 (Mar 7, 2011)

Sportback hatch and manual transmission but quattro is also needed.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Oh look, another Subaru owner who wants a manual....I'm telling you Audi...you are missing the boat by simply ignoring us.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

ChrisFu said:


> Oh look, another Subaru owner who wants a manual....I'm telling you Audi...you are missing the boat by simply ignoring us.


all the clever execs think they have you covered by offering manuals in their vws.....how annoying is that. :what: not going to happen in my case and probably a lot of others.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

kevlartoronto said:


> all the clever execs think they have you covered by offering manuals in their vws.....how annoying is that. :what: not going to happen in my case and probably a lot of others.


Yeah, but they blatantly ignore the fact that WRX/STI drivers are looking to step up to a "nicer" vehicle, not step sideways into a plebeian Volkswagen. 

If I wasnt shopping for entry luxury with nicer fit/finish, I'd stay with Subaru.


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