# White smoke on Decel, Lots of oil coming out of PCV. Catch can full..????



## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

ok, the title is pretty much what is happening to my car. I have been all over this website and have read so many posts about the possible reasons why this would happen to my motor. First let me say I have a Kinetic stage 1 VRT and I've ran 9 to 10lbs of boost non intercooled for about 7 months now. The motor's symptoms are White smoke on decel, and lots of oil coming out of PCV. I drove about 80 miles today and my catch can was like half full. Mind you the can is about the size of a 1 liter bottle of pepsi.







I ran a compression test on all 6 cylinders with the throttle wide open and the motor was hot, I also dropped about 1 teaspoon of oil in each cylinder, incase your wondering. see below.
1. 125
2. 230
3. 185
4. 215
5. 195
6. 205
I want to know a little more about this based on the compression numbers and the symptoms the motor is having. I know the next step is to do a leakdown test and see where I'm losing compression. Right now I have Valve Stem Seals, and Valve Guides that I will be changing to start. Please tell me what your opinions, experiences are. thanks dubbers!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

















_Modified by sp00l0nu at 9:35 PM 2-15-2008_


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## mavx (Feb 1, 2007)

sounds like a headgasket


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## aguyinpa81 (Oct 28, 2004)

*Re: (mavx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mavx* »_sounds like a headgasket

Sounds right but check out this link pasted below for more info. This guy had similar problems to yours. Hope this help bro. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3586922
Cheers








Jay


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## dossantos25 (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (aguyinpa81)*

did you do a DRY compression test first? (without spraying any oil?) do a dry test first, and then do another test with a little shot of oil in each cylinder. this will tell if your rings are okay. check your coolant bottle for any bubbles when your doing your compression test. Remember during Deceleration your engine produces close to MAX vacuum, and will suck any oil or coolant chilling around the valve seals or leaking through a water jacket.


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (dossantos25)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dossantos25* »_did you do a DRY compression test first? (without spraying any oil?) do a dry test first, and then do another test with a little shot of oil in each cylinder. this will tell if your rings are okay. check your coolant bottle for any bubbles when your doing your compression test. Remember during Deceleration your engine produces close to MAX vacuum, and will suck any oil or coolant chilling around the valve seals or leaking through a water jacket. 

I did the compression test DRY First and Cylinder #1 was at like 95psi. I think my Piston Seals could be bad. I'm in the process of changing my Valve seals now. Lets see what happens after I do that. Next step would be to pull the motor and rebuild the Bottom end. If it's not the headspacer that is. I hope its not the Pistons


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## dossantos25 (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*

well the head spacer again, you'd see bubbles in the coolant if you do a leakage test (get the valves closed and fill the cylinder with air). the wet compression test if it indicated higher readings, you make be getting a lousy seal in terms of piston rings. whats the mileage like on the motor?


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (dossantos25)*

rings and possibly piston damage


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## TURBOPHIL (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: (evilgti84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilgti84* »_rings and possibly piston damage

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I agree, ringlands could be shot.


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## LISTO14 (Dec 20, 2007)

*Re: (TURBOPHIL)*

sound like more then one problem.. smoke on decel with oil comming from pcv is valve stem seals.


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (LISTO14)*

yeah, i was trying to not completely ruin his day. not valve seals in my opinion, when you start filling a catch can with oil, you have massive blow by on your rings. so that rules out valve seals due to the amount of oil in such a short time. you more than likely melted a piston. and from your compression readings i would say cylinder number 1. doesn't matter what any of us say, the cylinder head needs to come off regardless. so that would be my first step. then i think you will find your problem easily. 
sorry, but it happens. i went too far on the duty cycle of my injectors one time and melted a hole right through the side of a 1.8T piston. 
it happens, but you gotta pay to play is what i always say. goodluck


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## epjetta (Sep 19, 2006)

*Re: (evilgti84)*

x2 for piston and ring damage. i bet thats what you find if you take it apart.


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (evilgti84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilgti84* »_yeah, i was trying to not completely ruin his day. not valve seals in my opinion, when you start filling a catch can with oil, you have massive blow by on your rings. so that rules out valve seals due to the amount of oil in such a short time. you more than likely melted a piston. and from your compression readings i would say cylinder number 1. doesn't matter what any of us say, the cylinder head needs to come off regardless. so that would be my first step. then i think you will find your problem easily. 
sorry, but it happens. i went too far on the duty cycle of my injectors one time and melted a hole right through the side of a 1.8T piston. 
it happens, but you gotta pay to play is what i always say. goodluck

Could it even possibly be bad valve seals? I just finished installing new ones.
I'm gonna pull the head when I get my headspacer. If it's a piston I'll be looking for a new motor, i'm not gonna even try to get it fixed. Lets see tomorrow when I get everything back together.


_Modified by sp00l0nu at 12:51 AM 2-20-2008_


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*

you can always hope it's valve seals. but valve seals will NEVER cause low compression, which you have in a cylinder. you should be pulling your cylinder head off. but i would start looking for a engine if your not going to repair your current engine if you have piston damage


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (evilgti84)*

It wont cause low compression, but will it cause that much oil in my catchcan, you think the valve seals were causing all that oil to buildup so fast in my catch can?


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*

NO. several of us have told you what is wrong with your engine. sorry


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (evilgti84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilgti84* »_NO. several of us have told you what is wrong with your engine. sorry

ok, buck it. it is what it is. I have been told though that the stock VR6 Pistons are very strong so if it's just the rings, I believe they can be re-ringed right?


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*

if there is no damage to your pistons you may be able to re-ring the engine. but it's usually damaged pistons.


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*

doesn't matter how strong your pistons are. detonation kills them all


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (evilgti84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilgti84* »_doesn't matter how strong your pistons are. detonation kills them all

ok, I'll hope for the best, but expect the worst








Fingers crossed


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*

like i said, it happens.. goodluck


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

ok I finished the Valve seals and the smoke on decel is gone. Also the catch can is not getting filled as quick as it was before. I have not pulled the head yet to look at the pistons. I will be doing that this weekend. When I was doing the valve seals I noticed some white coloring to the oil, almost like coolant was mixing in the head. 
If the Piston rings are ok, and the pistons are not damaged. Could a blown head gasket cause added pressure to blow more oil than usual out of the PCV?







I know its wishfull thinking, but is it realistic?









_Modified by sp00l0nu at 1:59 PM 2-28-2008_


_Modified by sp00l0nu at 2:00 PM 2-28-2008_


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## VR6_GTI (May 10, 2006)

*Re: (evilgti84)*

kind of sounds like what flatsix(scott) did. he had a stage 1 Kinetic kit on his MKIII VR for a while then bam melted piston. gotta love detonation. i dont like the idea of non intercooled no low CR turbo kits. but it worked out for him because he went forged low compression pistons, SRI, SDS ect. if you go hi performance you have to understand that when you break stock parts.........YOU UPGRADE!!! this may not be a bad thing in the end. its just gonna cost ya http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








and i dont think a blown HG adds pressure anywhere, bad HG= loss of pressure from an unsealed combustion chamber. although some pressure may get into the coolant passages and push some coolant out..sorry to hear the bad news though!

_Modified by VR6_GTI at 5:53 PM 2-28-2008_

_Modified by VR6_GTI at 5:55 PM 2-28-2008_

_Modified by VR6_GTI at 6:07 PM 2-28-2008_


_Modified by VR6_GTI at 6:09 PM 2-28-2008_


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (VR6_GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6_GTI* »_kind of sounds like what flatsix(scott) did. he had a stage 1 Kinetic kit on his MKIII VR for a while then bam melted piston. gotta love detonation. i dont like the idea of non intercooled no low CR turbo kits. but it worked out for him because he went forged low compression pistons, SRI, SDS ect. if you go hi performance you have to understand that when you break stock parts.........YOU UPGRADE!!! this may not be a bad thing in the end. its just gonna cost ya http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








and i dont think a blown HG adds pressure anywhere, bad HG= loss of pressure from an unsealed combustion chamber. although some pressure may get into the coolant passages and push some coolant out..sorry to hear the bad news though!
_Modified by VR6_GTI at 6:09 PM 2-28-2008_

yeah I'm not looking to run more than like 15 lbs anyway so I'm not doing any forged pistons. I'm gonna be pulling the head to check everything soon. If its pistons then I'll rebuild it. I'm not looking to spend over 1k on forged pistons







, not now anyways. Do you know if I should deglaze the Cylinder walls before installing new pistons and rings?


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## toy_vw (Feb 11, 2006)

always hone your walls...it will allow the new rings to break in and provide maximum sealing...I still think youve got a ton of blow by...with the engine running...pull off the oil cap and put your hand over it...if you can feel excessively strong puffs then Im betting your rings are done....rebuilding an engine requires more then just slapping new rings and such in...theres clearences that have to be met and such....


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (toy_vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *toy_vw* »_I still think youve got a ton of blow by...with the engine running...pull off the oil cap and put your hand over it...if you can feel excessively strong puffs then Im betting your rings are done.....

Yeah there's a little air pressure coming out in puffs like you said. Not very strong, but its noticeable.


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## MKIIVR6GTI (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: White smoke on Decel, Lots of oil coming out of PCV. Catch can full..???? (sp00l0nu)*

Ok so you have a 100PSI change in static compression across the board and you are getting blow by. From past experience you have at least a cracked piston on cyl 1 and possibly some small cracks in 3&5. As for having a bad head gasket that would be questionable. I have once blown a head gasket due to boost but that was a catastrophic failure with all 6 pistons cracking at once and blowing the fire ring of the head gasket into a coolant passage.


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: White smoke on Decel, Lots of oil coming out of PCV. Catch can full..???? (MKIIVR6GTI)*

i'll bet you melted something in the combustion chamber.
i had the same symptoms in a 16v, it ended up being due to detonation that melted my #1 piston down to the compression ring land, and broke the ring into 5 pieces.
None of this showed up on a compression test though. Also, the block was scored so badly that it would have had to been bored out (i think) and i had to start from scratch.
get a leakdown test done to confirm and/or pull the head. sorry dude... it sucks.


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (TURBOPHIL)*

same thing happened to me, by by ringlands








you need new rings


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

Well, here's the skinny on the motor after the Leakdown test.






















By the way the leakdown test was done with each Cylinder at TDC.
Cylinder 1: 80% Leak from the piston (all air pressure coming out of PCV) :-(
Cylinder 2: 3% leak from Cylinder combustion chamber. not bad.
Cylinder 3: 80% Leak from the Exhaust.
Cylinder 4: 80% Leak from Intake Valve
Cylinder 5: 20% Leak from the Piston (all air pressure coming out of PCV) :-(
Cylinder 6: 80% Leak from the Exhaust. 

My question is are the intake and exhaust leaks just bent valves maybe?







Easy on me I'm still a learning noob.









_Modified by sp00l0nu at 9:24 PM 3-3-2008_

_Modified by sp00l0nu at 9:24 PM 3-3-2008_


_Modified by sp00l0nu at 9:30 PM 3-3-2008_


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*

dude, no offense but we have all told you what is more than likely wrong with your engine. either way like i said before you need to pull you cylinder head off. you can run all the test in the world sometimes, and they will tell you certain things, but until you take it apart your just guessing what is wrong. again you need to pull your cylinder head off, and probually pull out all your pistons. noob or not, when several people have told you wahts going on, and it looks like myself and some of the other guys have seen this before, so it's not like we are just telling you for the fun of it.. we are trying to help you out. 
sorry dude, but quit stalling and pull the head off.


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (evilgti84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilgti84* »_dude, no offense but we have all told you what is more than likely wrong with your engine. either way like i said before you need to pull you cylinder head off. you can run all the test in the world sometimes, and they will tell you certain things, but until you take it apart your just guessing what is wrong. again you need to pull your cylinder head off, and probually pull out all your pistons. noob or not, when several people have told you wahts going on, and it looks like myself and some of the other guys have seen this before, so it's not like we are just telling you for the fun of it.. we are trying to help you out. 
sorry dude, but quit stalling and pull the head off.

look man i appreciate your help, I know I need to pull the head just haven't had time to do it. I'm not stalling or whatever. I know the test needed to be done to get a little better understanding of where the problems were, and this was suggested to me by a mechanic. I also did it to learn something new, and I also made my own leakdown tester which I was all proud of.







but thanks again. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by sp00l0nu at 10:09 PM 3-3-2008_


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*

i understand, and that is awesome you make your own leak down tester. i have just been following this thread to see what was wrong with the engine once you got it torn apart. i know the feeling, i'm trying to finish buidling my car, but work and kids are using up all my time. sorry if i came off the wrong way, just trying to help you.


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (evilgti84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilgti84* »_i understand, and that is awesome you make your own leak down tester. i have just been following this thread to see what was wrong with the engine once you got it torn apart. i know the feeling, i'm trying to finish buidling my car, but work and kids are using up all my time. sorry if i came off the wrong way, just trying to help you. 

no man I understand, I have little ones too, and work too damn much.








im gonna definitely be tearing it apart soon though. thanks again.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## R32EEEK (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*

did you overrev it ever? no broken valves?


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (R32EEEK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32EEEK* »_did you overrev it ever? no broken valves? 
 yeah I have, like a dope. there are no broken valves from what I could tell when I changed my valve stem seals, but again the head was not off. I will be pulling the head in the next few days to see the carnage.


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## toy_vw (Feb 11, 2006)

im just wondering....kinda off but...you didnt jump valvetrain timing did you??? and perform the leak down test with the piston at BDC....least amount of wear on the walls and less chance for the piston engine to crank over while your testing it...


_Modified by toy_vw at 9:20 PM 3-4-2008_


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (toy_vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *toy_vw* »_im just wondering....kinda off but...you didnt jump valvetrain timing did you??? and perform the leak down test with the piston at BDC....least amount of wear on the walls and less chance for the piston engine to crank over while your testing it...

_Modified by toy_vw at 9:20 PM 3-4-2008_

no i did the leakdown to each cylinder @ TDC. why would I have jumped the timing?


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## toy_vw (Feb 11, 2006)

I was just checking that that EACH piston was done at TDC....I was thinking possibly if all you did was stick the crank at tdc and then check all the pressure, youd have valves open and such from some of those readings you got...good stuff pll that **** apart


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (toy_vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *toy_vw* »_I was just checking that that EACH piston was done at TDC....I was thinking possibly if all you did was stick the crank at tdc and then check all the pressure, youd have valves open and such from some of those readings you got...good stuff pll that **** apart

the numbers are really bad. lol.








I'm anxious to get into it and start working on it but it's my daily and I can't yet until I get all the parts I need. I'm looking for 2 stock 81mm pistons just incase the ringlands are shot on the 2 I got really bad numbers on. I also have a headspacer and ARP headstuds I'm waiting on. I just want to have everything totally ready before I start.


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

Well I got all my parts finally. Head Spacer, ARP head bolts, 2 new exhaust Valves, 6 used pistons in great condition. I'm getting a ball hone this weekend and getting to work on this thing. Wish me luck.










_Modified by sp00l0nu at 4:04 PM 3-12-2008_


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## R32EEEK (Oct 13, 2004)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif keep us posted.


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (R32EEEK)*

so what did you find?


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (evilgti84)*

I haven't been able to start this yet. I went on vacation with the family to Florida, just got back. I still need oil pan bolts which I'm getting this week and hopefully I can start on this thing by Saturday.


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (evilgti84)*

Just got the head off, pistons look fine, i think the rings are bad, or ringlands. I'm getting the damn oil pan off now. Grrrr!!!


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

I just finished getting the oil pan off. What a 3itch it was taking those little bolts off. Some were seized and I had to use the dremel to cut a flat head grove on the bolt, then get it out with a screw driver. More to come....



_Modified by sp00l0nu at 11:20 PM 4-13-2008_


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

5 dead pistons with Ring landings destroyed. I just finished installing some stock 81mm pistons with new rings. I honed the Cylinder bores as well. Anyone have a picture of the ARP head stud pattern? I cant seem to find one. thanks


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*

i don't have the diagram for the arp's. but i'm glad you finally got that thing apart and found your problem.


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## R32EEEK (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sp00l0nu* »_5 dead pistons with Ring landings destroyed. I just finished installing some stock 81mm pistons with new rings. I honed the Cylinder bores as well. Anyone have a picture of the ARP head stud pattern? I cant seem to find one. thanks

well there's your problem!







did you float a valve during the "event"? looking forward to a nice set of comp #'s from you soon.
-rick


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (evilgti84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilgti84* »_i don't have the diagram for the arp's. but i'm glad you finally got that thing apart and found your problem. 

no biggie, I got some info in the 12v forum. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm happy as hell that I did this, what a great learning experience it's been. Everyone here has been very helpfull as well. thanks a million http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (R32EEEK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32EEEK* »_
well there's your problem!







did you float a valve during the "event"? looking forward to a nice set of comp #'s from you soon.
-rick

dude I had 2 bent exhaust valves,lol. I replaced them with the head off, and I also lapped the valves. I can't wait to have this thing finished. Hopefully by today If I can get home at a decent time. I'm installing the ARP head studs and bolts today and placing the head back on. The funniest thing about all this is that I left my turbo manifold on with the turbo and part of the intake manifold on when I took the head off. It was so damn heavy. Best thing is I got my wife to help me lift it out.










_Modified by sp00l0nu at 7:53 AM 4-16-2008_


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## 84RabbitGTI-T (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for the wifey helping


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (84RabbitGTI-T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *84RabbitGTI-T* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for the wifey helping


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

Quick question peoples. I can't find an answer to this one, and dont know if it even matters. The Head Spacer that I got from C2 Motorsports comes with 2 Gaskets. Both Gaskets have a copper and black side to them, I'm not sure which side goes up or down and there's no indication of proper install anywhere on it. I guess it's one of those things we all should just be "born knowing"







? Anyone know?

_Modified by sp00l0nu at 7:47 AM 4-17-2008_


_Modified by sp00l0nu at 7:48 AM 4-17-2008_


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

Nevermind, I called C2 and got my answer.







Incase anyone cares, the First Gasket goes Copper side up on the block, then the spacer goes ontop, then the second gasket goes copper side down, on top of the spacer. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by sp00l0nu at 8:08 AM 4-17-2008_


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## uamadman (Aug 5, 2007)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*

Make sure you properly torque the head bolts ... meaning ... look in the bently and use the stock torque sequence but with arps torque spec. tighten them all down gradually as well ... 20lb then 40lb etc etc till you hit the required spec. 
Also with apr hardware you are supposed to torque them down at least twice to three times to pull all the stretch out of them... meaning ... torque them down proper then loosen them up... a quarter turn at a time in reverse of the torque down sequence. then tighten them down again in proper sequence... 
This is so all stretch is removed from the studs and you wont have to worry about them backing off 5000miles down the road once it has gone through a few heat cycles and broken in.


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (uamadman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *uamadman* »_Make sure you properly torque the head bolts ... meaning ... look in the bently and use the stock torque sequence but with arps torque spec. tighten them all down gradually as well ... 20lb then 40lb etc etc till you hit the required spec. 
Also with apr hardware you are supposed to torque them down at least twice to three times to pull all the stretch out of them... meaning ... torque them down proper then loosen them up... a quarter turn at a time in reverse of the torque down sequence. then tighten them down again in proper sequence... 
This is so all stretch is removed from the studs and you wont have to worry about them backing off 5000miles down the road once it has gone through a few heat cycles and broken in.

Good info, thanks man. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

ok, I'm ready to place the head on the block. Anyone want to help? lol
I took the head off with the turbo manifold and part of the intake manifold on so it's bitch to carry. Any Volunteers in the Jersey area? lol


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## R32EEEK (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (uamadman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *uamadman* »_Make sure you properly torque the head bolts ... meaning ... look in the bently and use the stock torque sequence but with arps torque spec. tighten them all down gradually as well ... 20lb then 40lb etc etc till you hit the required spec. 
Also with apr hardware you are supposed to torque them down at least twice to three times to pull all the stretch out of them... meaning ... torque them down proper then loosen them up... a quarter turn at a time in reverse of the torque down sequence. then tighten them down again in proper sequence... 
This is so all stretch is removed from the studs and you wont have to worry about them backing off 5000miles down the road once it has gone through a few heat cycles and broken in.

That, or put the head on, heat cycle the engine, remove the valve cover and re-torque after a heat cycle.
RE: the gaskets... that's 1 OEM gasket that's been split into two pieces. It seems to work, but just to be safe, I threw it away and used two full OEM gaskets, one on each side of the spacer. It may have dropped the compression a tiny bit more, but the gasket was made to go in whole and be crushed into place on BOTH sides.
-rick


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

ok the rebuild has gone pretty good up until this point. I believe my Cam timing is a bit off causing the motor to misfire and buck, then turns off. I have also noticed at low rpm like 1500 in like 1st and 2nd gear the tranny feels rough when I coast, the car almost feels like it's about to stall and then it bucks. It turned off on me like 3 times already. I had a hard time setting the cam timing perfectly with the cam locking tool since the head is now a bit higher and it has removed more play from the chain. If someone can explain the best way to set the Cam timing after a head spacer install that would be great. I have done it many times on stock compression so I'm not a noob at it.







thanks!


_Modified by sp00l0nu at 9:36 PM 4-19-2008_


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## uamadman (Aug 5, 2007)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409
timing chains diy


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sp00l0nu* »_Nevermind, I called C2 and got my answer.







Incase anyone cares, the First Gasket goes Copper side up on the block, then the spacer goes ontop, then the second gasket goes copper side down, on top of the spacer. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by sp00l0nu at 8:08 AM 4-17-2008_

so the copper side always touches the spacer?


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (uamadman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *uamadman* »_http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409
timing chains diy

thanks but i'm looking for something more specific to adjusting the timing after a head spacer install. The chain is so tight now, I'm certain the cams are slightly off, but not sure if thats what's causing my bucking/sporadic idle/ turning off issue.


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_
so the copper side always touches the spacer?

correct


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sp00l0nu* »_ok the rebuild has gone pretty good up until this point. I believe my Cam timing is a bit off causing the motor to misfire and buck, then turns off. I have also noticed at low rpm like 1500 in like 1st and 2nd gear the tranny feels rough when I coast, the car almost feels like it's about to stall and then it bucks. It turned off on me like 3 times already. I had a hard time setting the cam timing perfectly with the cam locking tool since the head is now a bit higher and it has removed more play from the chain. If someone can explain the best way to set the Cam timing after a head spacer install that would be great. I have done it many times on stock compression so I'm not a noob at it.







thanks!

_Modified by sp00l0nu at 9:36 PM 4-19-2008_

I found the culprit. Stupid MAF!








I checked all my vacuum lines and could not find any leaks. I even disconnected all of them 1 by 1 while the motor was running and it would stall almost when I pulled one. I didn't think it was my vac because my Vac gauge is right at 20, which is perfect. Then I remembered when my MAF was dirty a while back my car wouldn't start and acted funny with the rpm jumping sporadically when it did start, then it would die. This time I started the car then disconnected the maf and the rpm went right up to about 750 which is normal, I also started the car with the MAF disconnected and then reconnected it when the car was running, and it died immediately. I'm cleaning it with 91% alcohol and reinstalling.


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## uamadman (Aug 5, 2007)

*Re: (sp00l0nu)*

I silently thought MAF for a moment when you said the car was bucking.
They have a spray MAF cleaner at discount autoparts. either way be very carefull touching the blades which can break very easily... and is something i regreted doing. 350+ dollars later.


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: (uamadman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *uamadman* »_I silently thought MAF for a moment when you said the car was bucking.
They have a spray MAF cleaner at discount autoparts. either way be very carefull touching the blades which can break very easily... and is something i regreted doing. 350+ dollars later.








yeah i've had issues with these Maf's before. They really suck.







I actually know what you mean about being carefull touching the blade, I broke one before. Lucky me I found a used one in perfect condition for 50 bucks.


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

Here's a picture of one of my pistons. I had 5 like this. :-(


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

I just did a compression test after running the motor with the Throttle wide open. I am now running the 8.5:1 Headspacer if that matters at all.
Cylinder 1: 160
Cylinder 3: 160
Cylinder 5: 165
Cylinder 2: 170
Cylinder 4: 170
Cylinder 6: 170


_Modified by sp00l0nu at 9:25 PM 4-25-2008_


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## sp00l0nu (Feb 1, 2008)

Intercooler core and piping is going in on Saturday.


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