# 2012 GTI oil consumption!



## ina04gli1.8t (Sep 24, 2010)

I have had to top off the oil in my 2012 GTI every couple of weeks. The car just turned 12K miles and I've used three quarts of oil just topping it off. There are no leaks that I'm aware of, no oil on my garage floor. This is something I would expect to see in a car with much higher mileage. Anyone else experience this type of problem ?


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## branedamag (Mar 8, 2008)

3 quarts total over 12,000 miles? That's not too bad. These things use a bit of oil. Also depends on what you use. My experience with Castrol was slightly higher usage than Mobil 1 or Valvoline. VW always quotes ridiculously high oil use figures, but keep an eye onit. Yours sounds pretty normal.


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## brownchicken/browncow (Dec 20, 2011)

:what: 


That seems way too high. I've only had my Golf R for 20,000 miles but burn 0 oil in 4000 to 5000 mile oilchange interval. And the 2 VR6s with more than 150000 on both burn 0 as did my '85 Mk1 with 265000 miles. 

I'd go see the stealership or a certified shop.


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

12,000 is barely broken in..

3 qts of oil in a years worth of driving isnt too bad..

my 86 GTI uses zero oil between oil changes, btw..


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

The 2.0L, direct injection engines are designed to run rich, which promotes better cooling inside the combustion chamber and allows for higher compression ratios without pre-ignition. However these rich fuel/air mixtures also make DI engines prone to fuel dilution of the engine oil. This makes the oil thinner and more volatile and increases oil consumption. Since you live in a hot climate you can expect to see some continued oil usage as the weather gets even warmer. Particularly if you drive very hard....

I'd try not keeping the oil level right up to the top of the hash marks all the time. Many engines will consume even more oil if you do this. Let the oil level drop by more that 1/2 a quart, then just add that 1/2 quart or a bit less and leave the level a bit below the fill mark. I'd also avoid wide range multi grades like 0w-40 that will burn off more easily. For the FL climate a 5w-40 or 10w-40, full synthetic will hold up better and the heavier (higher molecular weight) base stock will burn off less.

TS


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## meboice (Mar 24, 2012)

0w40 M1 has worked very well on our 2.0 Passat for 5 years. The oil and fillter are changed every 3,000 miles and I rarely have to add oil.

0w40 is one of the approved oils for this motor. I have a Blackstone oil analysis kit ready for the next change...about a month away. I will post back here.

EDIT: was this engine broken in properly? If it was beat on it will use more oil.


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## brownchicken/browncow (Dec 20, 2011)

meboice said:


> 0w40 M1 has worked very well on our 2.0 Passat for 5 years. The oil and fillter are changed every 3,000 miles and I rarely have to add oil.
> 
> 0w40 is one of the approved oils for this motor. I have a Blackstone oil analysis kit ready for the next change...about a month away. I will post back here.
> 
> EDIT: was this engine broken in properly? If it was beat on it will use more oil.


 X2 :thumbup: 


I think TooSlick is puffing up a bunch of nonsense! :screwy: 

But whatever, I'll worry about my engines and do what I think is right (and therefore have hundreds of thousands of miles of trouble free motoring) and you can do whatever and listen to whoever! :wave:


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## brownchicken/browncow (Dec 20, 2011)

TooSlick said:


> PM From: TooSlick - I've worked as a (rocket) propulsion engineer for the Air Force and NASA for 29 years. I think I'll stick with my explanation. Have a nice day Sir....
> 
> Tk


 
So, I don't really care! That means you know something about rockets but not necessarily anything about VW engines.:sly: 

Back it up, show me facts or you're just another useless over inflated opinion of conjecture! What you said sounds really important but just because you said it doesn't make it true! 

P.S. don't PM me again, if you have something to say or back up your "opinions" do it so everyone can see. TS or TK or whoever!?!?:screwy:


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

I'm entirely correct about the root causes of high oil consumption in these DI turbos. It is an issue with all these DI engines to some degree, although the first generation, VW/Audi, 2.0L engine seems to be the worse of the bunch. If you look at other Forums you'll see BMW and Mercedes owners voicing the same concerns about their DI engines. On the domestic front, the latest 3.6L, GM engine and the 3.5L, Ford "Eco-boost" turbo also are affected. 

The older VR6 engines use indirect injection and aren't set up to run rich, so they don't exhibit the same behavior - and of course they're not turbocharged. I've owned three VW's and three Audis going back to 1980 and none of them exhibited high oil consumption. None of these were DI engines, including my current Audi. 

TS


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## brownchicken/browncow (Dec 20, 2011)

I guess I'm just lucky!  

'85 Cabriolet 435,000 km = 0 oil consumption 
'98 VR6 145,000 miles = 0 oil consumption 
'00 VR6 173,000 + 22,000 miles = 0 oil consumption before or after rebuild 
'12 Golf R 23,000 miles = 0 oil consumption 

All oil changes are done at 4000 to 6000 miles. I'm a sample size of one, it's too bad everyone else has so many problems. :screwy:


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

The guy who started this thread lives in a hot climate and he may also drive very hard and/or do lots of highway driving. That can make a considerable difference in specific oil consumption. 

The older, IDI (indirect injection), VW and Audi engines by and large didn't have oil consumption issues, with the exception of some of the 2.0L/115 Hp motors where the rings were the culprit. I put 260,000 miles on my 1990 Audi 100 (2.3L) and it still used less than a quart of oil every 10,000 miles.


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## brownchicken/browncow (Dec 20, 2011)

I lived in Arizona and now Louisana and have raced the Mk3 and tracked the Mk4 lots for ther last 9 years.........they've had some hard miles. 

I'm done, people can listen to your opinion or not. 

I will not.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*it's not rocket science*

use good earl, change it regularely and things will be fine


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*hot climate/ cold climate*

vw's have an oil to water oil cooler, the coolant runs at 195 summer or winter, unless you believe their is significant cooling going on in the oil pan, the oil runs the same regardless of season. sorry about climate theories, the engine does'nt know what season it is.


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

Of course there is convective heat transfer between the oil pan and the surrounding air passing over it. When that temperature differential is only 100F, the rate of heat transfer is much slower than when the differential is 200F. So your equilibrium oil temps do run lower in cold weather. My 1990 Audi 100 had factory installed (VDO), oil temp and oil pressure gauges. Oil temps in the winter consistently ran about 10F cooler than in the summer. 

TS


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*woopy!*



TooSlick said:


> Of course there is convective heat transfer between the oil pan and the surrounding air passing over it. When that temperature differential is only 100F, the rate of heat transfer is much slower than when the differential is 200F. So your equilibrium oil temps do run lower in cold weather. My 1990 Audi 100 had factory installed (VDO), oil temp and oil pressure gauges. Oil temps in the winter consistently ran about 10F cooler than in the summer.
> 
> TS


 that's one hell of a difference. really? wow! hope nothing blew up.


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

If you look at the old, oil viscosity/temp charts for any of the German auto makers, they'd allow the use of thinner oils (as thin as 20w-20), if the ambient temps stayed below certain ranges. The rationale was that your equilibrium oil temps would run significantly lower in cold weather. To put this in perspective, a +/- 20F/10C difference in oil temps is like going up and down a full SAE grade in terms of oil film thickness. So a 30wt oil @190F, a 40wt oil at 210F and a 50wt oil @230F would all run at the same viscosity (and generate similar oil pressure). 

The VW, coolant to oil, heat exchanger is really more of an oil heater. Since the coolant comes up to temp faster than the oil, the heat exchanger warms the oil faster than would occur just from friction and engine heat. This helps with engine responsiveness and fuel efficiency during the warmup phase. 

TS


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

How would you have pre-ignition in a DI motor, when the fuel is injected just before ignition is to take place? That is one of the benefits of a DI motor, and it is how they can run a higher CR on a FI motor. And running rich enough to dilute the oil would be bad for the CAT, I would think, but I have no proof.


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

I don't understand the exact mechanism; I do know its a concern caused by combustion chamber carbon deposits. It's one of the reasons for the low ash part of the spec for VW 504.00.


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## brownchicken/browncow (Dec 20, 2011)

Guys there's no point in trying to understand TooSh!ts superior rocket science intellect, we're just not capible of such knowledge. What he says is the truth and we just have to accept it. :facepalm:


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

"Thanks for your message, Mike. We appreciate the feedback. A slight reduction in ash is desirable for advanced engine technology such as gasoline direct injection (GDI) engine and passenger car diesel engines. With GDI engines, higher levels of ash appear to result in a higher occurrence of Low Speed Pre-Ignition. The industry is currently developing tests and specifications to address Low Speed Pre-Ignition. In the future, passenger car engine oil specifications such as ILSAC GF-6 and dexos1 (next generation) are likely to have requirements such as lower ash to address Low Speed Pre-Ignition."

A direct quote from the technical staff at ExxonMobil....

TS


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001902726.cfm?x=b11,0,w


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

http://www.swri.org/9what/releases/2010/hedge.htm


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

http://www.howtodothings.info/papers/20130307/12475.html

There is a plethora of information on "Low Speed Pre-Ignition" (LSPI), in turbocharged, direct injection engines that can easily be found. As I said, although the exact mechanisms are still being studied, the sulfated ash content of the engine oil is thought to be a direct contributor.

TS


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*low speed preignition*



TooSlick said:


> http://www.howtodothings.info/papers/20130307/12475.html
> 
> There is a plethora of information on "Low Speed Pre-Ignition" (LSPI), in turbocharged, direct injection engines that can easily be found. As I said, although the exact mechanisms are still being studied, the sulfated ash content of the engine oil is thought to be a direct contributor.
> 
> TS


do you know much about it? i've got a miss up to 800 rpm in one cylinder. compression ,vacuum good. cleaned ports by hand, new injector, swapped injector, coils, plugs, etc.. checked grounds and on and on. get it passed inspection with a/c and rear defroster on to raise idle. runs great, good mileage, spin tires in second with just the trottle.


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

Sounds like you chased down any ignition related faults, which was going to be my first suggestion.

If the problem is oil related, it's due to a buildup of metallic ash deposits (bound by resin), on the crown of the pistons. These deposits create hotspots and prematurely ignite the fuel/air mixture. My suggestion would be to try cleaning some of this deposit off by running a strong fuel system cleaner like Redline SL-1, Techron concentrate, Amsoil PI, etc with two successive tanks of fuel. Following that using a lower ash oil is helpful to keep the problem in check.


Sulfated Ash levels:

VW 504.00/507.00 < 0.6%
VW 502.00/505.01 < 0.8%
API, CJ-4/SM/SN < 1.0%
VW 502.00/505.00 < 1.3%


TS


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

ina04gli1.8t said:


> I have had to top off the oil in my 2012 GTI every couple of weeks. The car just turned 12K miles and I've used three quarts of oil just topping it off. There are no leaks that I'm aware of, no oil on my garage floor. This is something I would expect to see in a car with much higher mileage. Anyone else experience this type of problem ?


Sometimes this happens with 2.0T's. VW allow for 1 quart per about 1000 miles before it is deemed an issue to address.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*ash*



TooSlick said:


> Sounds like you chased down any ignition related faults, which was going to be my first suggestion.
> 
> If the problem is oil related, it's due to a buildup of metallic ash deposits (bound by resin), on the crown of the pistons. These deposits create hotspots and prematurely ignite the fuel/air mixture. My suggestion would be to try cleaning some of this deposit off by running a strong fuel system cleaner like Redline SL-1, Techron concentrate, Amsoil PI, etc with two successive tanks of fuel. Following that using a lower ash oil is helpful to keep the problem in check.
> 
> ...


has to be either that or a bum exuast lash adjuster. runs better after techron, seafoam etc. but does not go away. dumped sea foam in cyl. and got short improvement. have to do timing belt as soon as i get time and will do exuast adjusters at that time. still runs great off idle. can't be anything thats going to do long term harm imo. thanks for your thoughts.


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## meboice (Mar 24, 2012)

We recently had a fuel injection service performed on our 2007 2.0 Passat - just past 30K miles. My wife drives 4 miles round to trip work and back. This car rarely warms up in winter...so I suspected a fair amount of build-up in the combustion chamber.

When we picked the car up my wife called me right away and said, "wow, this really surprised me".

So I took the car for a ride and the acceleration, drivability were night and day different. The car's original snappiness all came back. 

We'll have this done every two years. ...and fuel mileage went up a few miles per gallon...hard to judge this one given the nature of her drive, it's all in the warm up mode in winter.

I am very anxious to see the UOA from this winter...the oil change interval was longer than normal. Still, I only added 1/3 quart since the last oil change 3,500 miles ago.


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

The main, well documented deposit buildup is on the back of the intake & exhaust valves. If their fuel injection service introduced the cleaner into the manifold upstream of the valves and cleaned these deposits, I'd expect a noticeable improvement. Many owners of 2.0L, DI engines are doing this themselves, using "Sea-foam", Amsoil Power Foam, BG-44 or similar products. Adding fuel systems cleaner to the gas tank isn't as effective, since this doesn't touch the deposits on the valve stems.

TS


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## meboice (Mar 24, 2012)

We brought the car to VW for this service. The car ran for one hour with the fuel injection cleaning system hooked up to it, so I imagine it cleans everything. The difference was really sobering. I highly recommend this especially for those who have the type of commute my wife does. It felt like another 50 lbft of torque and throttle tip in repsonse was really improved. 

Back to the OP...I will be changing the oil next week. Once I receive the UOA I will post back here.
M1 0W40. I did use M1 5W40 TDT for quite a few years in this car but never had it tested. I did so with other cars and the results were really good.


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## meboice (Mar 24, 2012)

...oil sent out to Blackstone today. 0w40 M1


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## cryption (Mar 28, 2006)

It's funny the one guy in here who knows what he's talking about gets flamed.


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## Boner Champ (May 9, 2013)

No doubt.


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## Willy Pickton (Jun 1, 2021)

My rocket science instructor in MIT swore by Marvel's Mystery Oil...


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