# Seafoam adventures...



## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)

I read a few threads last night about seafoaming the GTI, and it just made sense. I've seafoamed my other cars, and it didn't even occur to me that the valves could be that dirty thanks to direct injection.
Editted to add:
Stag2-ish. hoped w/m would help some on the build-up, but didn't expect this much after 48k miles...
Read threads:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...80170 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4256886 
Today's adventure video(s):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBt6NcInXa0 Skip to 4:45 for the real fun.
Today's adventure pics:


















































_Modified by CiDirkona at 11:35 PM 2-21-2009_


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## Aguilar (Jan 28, 2006)

*FV-QR*

That's a lot of dirty smoke. I'll consider doing this every couple of oil changes. 
The car looks great btw.


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## jpimp61 (Mar 22, 2008)

*Re: Seafoam adventures... (CiDirkona)*

looks like it worked!


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## J-GTi (Jan 12, 2008)

ROFL! Looks like you're fumigating the place. Gd stuff!


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## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: Seafoam adventures... (CiDirkona)*

post a pick of the sea foam can u used


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## OOOO-A3 (Jul 20, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aguilar* »_That's a lot of dirty smoke.


_Quote, originally posted by *jpimp61* »_looks like it worked!


You don't actually believe that the smoke is related to any possible deposits on the valves, do you? That's just the Seafoam itself. Do the same procedure to a brand new car straight off the lot and you'll see the same thing.
Seafoam may, in fact, work, but unless you take the head off and look at every valve before and after seafoaming it, you don't (a) know how much, if any, buildup was ont the valves, and (b) how much, if any, Seafoam removed. Until someone does that, this is strictly in "I want to believe" territory.


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## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (OOOO-A3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OOOO-A3* »_
You don't actually believe that the smoke is related to any possible deposits on the valves, do you? That's just the Seafoam itself. Do the same procedure to a brand new car straight off the lot and you'll see the same thing.
Seafoam may, in fact, work, but unless you take the head off and look at every valve before and after seafoaming it, you don't (a) know how much, if any, buildup was ont the valves, and (b) how much, if any, Seafoam removed. Until someone does that, this is strictly in "I want to believe" territory.

Yeah, but it's also better safe than sorry. Deposits aren't going away if you DON'T do anything either. When I revved it (about 4:45 in the video) you can see some darker brown clouds coming out too -- so something besides just the seafoam is coming out.
Seafoam:


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## OOOO-A3 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (CiDirkona)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CiDirkona* »_Yeah, but it's also better safe than sorry. Deposits aren't going away if you DON'T do anything either.
Sacrificing chickens would be "doing something" too, and at least that's biodegradable.

_Quote, originally posted by *CiDirkona* »_you can see some darker brown clouds coming out too -- so something besides just the seafoam is coming out.
 Holy ****! You can do spectroscopy with your naked eyes!









The deposits are carbon. You can't dissolve carbon. If the carbon has other elements with it, you may be able to break those bonds, but given the heat involved here most other substances would have burned off leaving the carbon deposits behind. Theoretically, maybe, the Seafoam could attack the boundary between the carbon and the metal of the valves, but if it can't penetrate the carbon to get to that boundary, it's a moot point.


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## HoldDaMayo (Feb 16, 2008)

0000-A3, you're acting a bit immature... you stated in your post,
"You don't actually believe that the smoke is related to any possible deposits on the valves, do you? That's just the Seafoam itself"
Seems you can do Spectroscopy with your naked eyes as well douche. How do you know every particle is just the Seafoam????


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## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (CiDirkona)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif they got all kinds of seafoam stuff at the store If I try it, I don't want to suck the wrong **** into my motor





















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (OOOO-A3)*

how hard is it to pull the valve cover? sure someone will test this method no? Before you say IT, cuz I know your were thinking it







I'm just getting my car back together.


_Modified by fahrenheit 525 at 1:20 PM 2-22-2009_


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (fahrenheit 525)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fahrenheit 525* »_how hard is it to pull the valve cover? sure someone will test this method no? Before you say IT, cuz I know your were thinking it







I'm just getting my car back together.

_Modified by fahrenheit 525 at 1:20 PM 2-22-2009_

You mean intake manifold . . . 
And it requires disconnecting quite a bit.
Dave


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## OOOO-A3 (Jul 20, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *HoldDaMayo* »_you're acting a bit immature


_Quote, originally posted by *HoldDaMayo* »_douche.

Whatever.


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## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (fahrenheit 525)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fahrenheit 525* »_how hard is it to pull the valve cover? sure someone will test this method no? Before you say IT, cuz I know your were thinking it







I'm just getting my car back together.

_Modified by fahrenheit 525 at 1:20 PM 2-22-2009_

Unless u plan on staring at cam lobes u wanna remove the intake. Or use a boroscope


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## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (RABIDRABBIT1983)*

a guy at work just bought a strap on(pun intended) brand video monitor boroscope. I'll see about doing some before and after with mine. 
I'll be using a moc or bg brand setup with a professional mister applicator so my results will be scewed


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## rightcoastbiased (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (OOOO-A3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OOOO-A3* »_
Whatever.


I'm a skeptic, but all this drama has gotten me curious. Why doesn't someone borescope the intake tract before and after. That would be a worthy observation of Seafoam's effectiveness. (Not clouds out of exhaust pipes.) I'm willing to try a carbon treatment during my next oil and plug change. I will try to get my borescope to the intake ports and valves. It looks like it will fit in the IAT port. Wait, how would I get past the tumblers? FAIL.
My understanding of the issues:
The intake valves of direct injection motors are prone to carbon because they never have fuel washing over them. Secondly, rule of thumb for chemical reactions is they are twice as effective for ever 10deg increase. These valves don't encounter heated gases, meaning cleaners/steam will not be as effective. With the FSI, add an oil leaking PCV's into the mix and you have a nasty crusty carbon on your intake valves.

Side Note: Few rev's with water meth running.















Probably just loose carbon bits from the exhaust.







All the jazz aside, my cars running fine and I'm lovin it. Thanks for sharing, Colin. 


_Modified by rightcoastbiased at 12:59 PM 2-22-2009_


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (OOOO-A3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OOOO-A3* »_Sacrificing chickens would be "doing something" too, and at least that's biodegradable.
Holy ****! You can do spectroscopy with your naked eyes!









The deposits are carbon. You can't dissolve carbon. If the carbon has other elements with it, you may be able to break those bonds, but given the heat involved here most other substances would have burned off leaving the carbon deposits behind. Theoretically, maybe, the Seafoam could attack the boundary between the carbon and the metal of the valves, but if it can't penetrate the carbon to get to that boundary, it's a moot point.

I agree. Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon but I haven't seen any proof it does anything. Have I missed something?
If you put automatic transmission fluid in the gas it will burn a tone of smoke, doesn't meen a whole lot though.


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

You seafoamed your car in the garage? I mean I know that the garage door was open & all, but that looks to be some really toxic smelling smoke. Some of that must have made its way into your home, no?


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

*Re: (rippie74)*

I think I heard some coughing too in the video...


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (dmorrow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmorrow* »_
I agree. Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon but I haven't seen any proof it does anything. Have I missed something?
If you put automatic transmission fluid in the gas it will burn a tone of smoke, doesn't meen a whole lot though.

We have plenty of evidence that deposits on intake vales etc. is a real issue: see photos of huge deposits at only 22k, evidence of deposits at only 800 miles, photos of TONS of gunk catch in catch cans, and countless examples of 2.0 FSI burning lots of oil (where do you think that oil is going? one guess).
So it is a known problem and is doing nothing about it smart? I don't think so. Some people believe in performing preventative maintenance when there is a known problem.

Tons of people have cleaned their intakes, valves, fuel injectors via running solvents through the intakes for years. It is proven to work on lots of cars over many years. I myself have used the air intake cleaners on around 75 cars with great results. It would be great to have before and after photos specifically of the 2.0 FSI, but give me a break, people know this works on tons of cars for many years, would it suddenly not work on the 2.0 FSI? 
Preventative options to reduce pcv-derived deposits include:
1. Reduce pcv-derived contaminants via a catch can
2. Eliminate pcv return through atmospheric or vacuum assisted catch-can type system
3. Clean valves routinely with solvents (such as at every oil change)
4. Run less volatile and more shear stable oil and/or an oil with good cleaning properties.
5. Use high quality fuel
6. Run a meth/water system
I encourage you to use any or as many of the options that you wish. I think you are foolish if you do nothing or wait until there is some sort of conclusive proof that something meets your standards. Don't get hung up on the "tailpipe smoke=clean" argument. That is not important. Doing whatever you can to prevent and reduce the deposits is what is important. But hey it's your car and you can do nothing if you wish. 


_Modified by saaber2 at 11:14 AM 2-23-2009_


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## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_
We have plenty of evidence that deposits on intake vales etc. is a real issue: see photos of huge deposits at only 22k, evidence of deposits at only 800 miles, photos of TONS of gunk catch in catch cans, and countless examples of 2.0 FSI burning lots of oil (where do you think that oil is going? one guess).
So it is a known problem and is doing nothing about it smart? I don't think so. Some people believe in performing preventative maintenance when there is a known problem.

Well said! Thanks, man. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (CiDirkona)*

I wish I had access to a BG44k system. That stuff works better than seafoam when you have really bad buildup. I used seafoam a few times with my previous car, wasnt too happy then I had the dealer run BG 44 and it ran smoother and idled better. I will have to try a can of BG 44 and see if I can get it to work like this method.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (bificus99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bificus99* »_I wish I had access to a BG44k system. That stuff works better than seafoam when you have really bad buildup. I used seafoam a few times with my previous car, wasnt too happy then I had the dealer run BG 44 and it ran smoother and idled better. I will have to try a can of BG 44 and see if I can get it to work like this method.

Looks like good stuff. Plus they have the misting tool similar to what Rabidrabbit was talking about:
http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html
http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair2.html
I wonder if you have to be a repair shop to buy it directly?



_Modified by saaber2 at 2:47 PM 2-23-2009_


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## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

*FV-QR*

I like what I see here. 

Actually, kinda reminds me of this kind of smoke:


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_
We have plenty of evidence that deposits on intake vales etc. is a real issue: see photos of huge deposits at only 22k, evidence of deposits at only 800 miles, photos of TONS of gunk catch in catch cans, and countless examples of 2.0 FSI burning lots of oil (where do you think that oil is going? one guess).
_Modified by saaber2 at 11:14 AM 2-23-2009_

You may be right but at this time the evidence is limited and the proof that Seafoam is the cure on our engine is also very limited (I think nonexistent). Out of the thousands of 2.0T built I have only seen a small percentage of people that have had the issue big enough to get work done. You have given a couple of examples of problems. There would have to be 100’s to be of statistical significance. We don't have proof that the average person will have intake valve carbon issues. Yes there have been a few people that have had heavy carbon issues and this is a possible solution but at the same time I don't know if a blanket "everyone should do this" is right at this time. Do we even know if the person with the 22k was changing their oil or if they used synthetic? There also isn't long term information on what the Seafoam will do if you are doing the procedure every oil change. I hope with time we find out if it is necessary or not and I hope there is enough people doing it that we find out if there are issues with it. 
I have 80 k miles on my car, it burns almost no oil (maybe a half quart every 3000 miles, probably less) and if I had done this at every oil change, it is possible I would have more issues than I have now. I am just looking for proof that it works, that it is needed, and that it won’t cause other issues (o2, cat, etc). If I run my car to 110K I will probably be better off doing nothing.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Kid Hobo)*

Builds strong bodys 12 ways...


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## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Did this today... car feels a hell of a lot smoother. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (OOOO-A3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OOOO-A3* »_
You don't actually believe that the smoke is related to any possible deposits on the valves, do you? That's just the Seafoam itself. Do the same procedure to a brand new car straight off the lot and you'll see the same thing.
Seafoam may, in fact, work, but unless you take the head off and look at every valve before and after seafoaming it, you don't (a) know how much, if any, buildup was ont the valves, and (b) how much, if any, Seafoam removed. Until someone does that, this is strictly in "I want to believe" territory.

I have seen proof that doing this works. I have seen the valves before and after doing the B-G service cleaner. I had my cam shaft replaced under warranty and saw the buildup. Then did the B-G service. I then installed my stage 3 install and saw a big improvement, especially on those guide plates that are on the intake side. there were mountains of buildup on them prior to the b-g service. They were much smoother when I inspected them while doing the install.


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## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Runin2Rich4FSi)*

Also forgot to mention that my car was running very rich before doing the B-G service, my car was doing "Kablowskis" (Back fires) quite often. Although it sounded cool, my fuel efficency sucked and I was not getting the max power out of my car. so much smoother after the service was done


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## vwisthebest (Sep 17, 2003)

My 2006 GTI has 54,000 miles and has been COMPLETELY stock for every single one of those miles including an unmodified PCV system. I'd be willing to use my car for some kind of definitive proof that this stuff does or does not make a difference.
My car has had kind of a bumpy idle that started off tiny and infrequent around 12,000 miles and got slightly worse and progressed until about 25,000. Since that point it's stayed pretty steady. I've speculated all along that it was related to PCV oil recirculation and often have thought about what might be cleaning the valves considering the "carbon cleaners" in the fuel never actually come in contact with the valves.
I suspect the buildup on my engine is pretty bad after 54,000 miles. I'm going to take a look at a Bentley to see what would be involved in getting before and after imagery of the valves. I'd even be down for removing the intake manifold and snapping a few shots, running the SeaFoam, then re-removing the manifold for post cleaning pictures.


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## plutoR (Aug 24, 2006)

*Re: Seafoam adventures... (CiDirkona)*

Hey buddy , 
Great pics. Could you take a pic of the vacuum routing diagram partially shown there and post it please. We don't have this on our cars in South Africa.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

*Re: (vwisthebest)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwisthebest* »_My 2006 GTI has 54,000 miles and has been COMPLETELY stock for every single one of those miles including an unmodified PCV system. I'd be willing to use my car for some kind of definitive proof that this stuff does or does not make a difference.
My car has had kind of a bumpy idle that started off tiny and infrequent around 12,000 miles and got slightly worse and progressed until about 25,000. Since that point it's stayed pretty steady. I've speculated all along that it was related to PCV oil recirculation and often have thought about what might be cleaning the valves considering the "carbon cleaners" in the fuel never actually come in contact with the valves.
I suspect the buildup on my engine is pretty bad after 54,000 miles. I'm going to take a look at a Bentley to see what would be involved in getting before and after imagery of the valves. I'd even be down for removing the intake manifold and snapping a few shots, running the SeaFoam, then re-removing the manifold for post cleaning pictures.

This would be excellent information.


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## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

*Re: (vwisthebest)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwisthebest* »_I'd be willing to use my car for some kind of definitive proof that this stuff does or does not make a difference.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: (vwisthebest)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwisthebest* »_My 2006 GTI has 54,000 miles and has been COMPLETELY stock for every single one of those miles including an unmodified PCV system. I'd be willing to use my car for some kind of definitive proof that this stuff does or does not make a difference.
My car has had kind of a bumpy idle that started off tiny and infrequent around 12,000 miles and got slightly worse and progressed until about 25,000. Since that point it's stayed pretty steady. I've speculated all along that it was related to PCV oil recirculation and often have thought about what might be cleaning the valves considering the "carbon cleaners" in the fuel never actually come in contact with the valves.
I suspect the buildup on my engine is pretty bad after 54,000 miles. I'm going to take a look at a Bentley to see what would be involved in getting before and after imagery of the valves. I'd even be down for removing the intake manifold and snapping a few shots, running the SeaFoam, then re-removing the manifold for post cleaning pictures.

do it. 
the Lubro-moly stuff has more solvent and less castor oil carrier...
or you can cut it yourself with Naptha from Homy Depot....
just don't try to buy Naptha, acetone and alchohol from WallMart in one trip, the homeland security alarms go off---LOL! you have to get back in line and buy them separately, what a joke. 


_Modified by iGen3 at 10:43 AM 3-12-2009_


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## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)

*Re: Seafoam adventures... (plutoR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *plutoR* »_Hey buddy , 
Great pics. Could you take a pic of the vacuum routing diagram partially shown there and post it please. We don't have this on our cars in South Africa.


Well, you're not using any part of your normal vacuum hose system at all for this - you're removing an electric sensor and shoving a fuel line in it's place. There's a lip on the inside, so it won't let you push it in too far and break anything either. 
One 1/4" fuel hose about a meter long -- one end goes into the hole that the intake manifold temperature sensor was in, the other gets the basketball/football needle shoved in it. I can take a 'top down' picture tonight though if it helps you figure out the overall layout though.
When you're done, you'll remove this hose completely from the system and put your temp sensor back in.
I hope this clarified things a bit -- and I'll take that picture later as well.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Seafoam adventures... (CiDirkona)*


_Quote, originally posted by *plutoR* »_Hey buddy , 
Great pics. Could you take a pic of the vacuum routing diagram partially shown there and post it please. We don't have this on our cars in South Africa.









This is the image from the original poster of this idea, dsire. The OP of this thread referenced the two previous threads on this procedure on his first post.
"Read threads:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...80170
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4256886 "


_Modified by saaber2 at 11:22 AM 3-12-2009_


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## vwisthebest (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: (iGen3)*

I just go ahold of a Bentley a few minutes ago








So what should I use? The homemade stuff, SeaFoam, or the Lubro-moly? Someone also mentioned Amsoil has one, and then there's the BP version.
Which is the cheapest, easiest to source, and still does the job?

_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_
do it. 
the Lubro-moly stuff has more solvent and less castor oil carrier...
or you can cut it yourself with Naptha from Homy Depot....
just don't try to buy Naptha, acetone and alchohol from WallMart in one trip, the homeland security alarms go off---LOL! you have to get back in line and buy them separately, what a joke. 

_Modified by iGen3 at 10:43 AM 3-12-2009_


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## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Don't go buckwild with sucking up the stuff with the needle right away with full immersion. Let it slowly take in a little at a time or you'll stall your engine.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Kid Hobo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kid Hobo* »_Don't go buckwild with sucking up the stuff with the needle right away with full immersion. Let it slowly take in a little at a time or you'll stall your engine.

That's what you want it to do , then let it sit for at least 5 minutes and then restart the motor . When you restart it the CEL is prob going to blink showing misfires keep it at a steady 3k rpm until the plugs clear and repeat this process a few time then your all set. I would drive the car around for alittle bit then come back and change the oil. IMO this should be something done before every other or every third oil change .







Bob.G


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## Rogerthat (Oct 23, 2005)

I'm going to do it this weekend. I've done it to other cars why not this one?
How much of the bottle are guys using? Half or all?


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## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
That's what you want it to do

Thought you wanted it to "mist" the ports, not kill the motor... ?


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Kid Hobo)*

I just did this an hour ago. I have used seafoam before so this time I used techron at a test. I have seen cans of BG 44 and I will nab one of those next time. BTW I had a lot of blue smoke and some oil seepage around this sensor too. 
One thing I am concerned about is the screw that holds the intake air temperature sensor. It was really right to remove and it seems like its stripped now. A plastic housing without a threaded metal insert for this screw is lame.










_Modified by bificus99 at 10:17 AM 3-14-2009_


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (bificus99)*

bump


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## Rogerthat (Oct 23, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (bificus99)*

Did you try putting in a bigger screw? 
So you have oil and air leaking from that area? Any cel?

_Quote, originally posted by *bificus99* »_A plastic housing without a threaded metal insert for this screw is lame.









Yes it is.


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Rogerthat)*

Oils was already there and no leaks, but I rechecked the screw and its fine. Dang anal retentive VW owners!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by bificus99 at 12:09 PM 3-15-2009_


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (bificus99)*

I did this on my mk IV 2.0 Jetta today too, found one helluva exhaust leak! All the smoke was coming out from under the heat shield! Dohhhhh!!!!


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## Rogerthat (Oct 23, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (bificus99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bificus99* »_.............but I rechecked the screw and its fine. 

Are sure it wasn't one these that fixed it?


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Rogerthat)*

haha wth is that?


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## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (bificus99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bificus99* »_haha wth is that?

...you've never seen Batteries Not Included?! One of the best 80s movies evar!


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (CiDirkona)*

Oh I havent seen that in a long long time.


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## Dark Anghell (Jun 25, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (bificus99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bificus99* »_I did this on my mk IV 2.0 Jetta today too, found one helluva exhaust leak! All the smoke was coming out from under the heat shield! Dohhhhh!!!!









Same thing happened to my car! I have a small leak between the turbo housing and the downpipe. Some nasty black liquid (smelled like oil/seafoam mixture) dripped from the exhaust leak location. I was doing this myself with no helpers and ofcourse the engine sucked in the fuel fast, which killed the engine and caused the CEL to blink and then stay on. 
Before this I tried using fiberscope to check out the valves, but intake manifold runners are so small that I couldn't get the fiberscope deep inside to see the valves. But when I pulled it out, the tip had a lot of gunk on it...very similar to what you would find on the bottom of oil drain pan...oil that's been sitting there for months and is now partially solid.
Initial impression after cleaning: I actually think my car is a little bit slower. Car runs almost the same, engine is not quieter, same ticking noise as before. One possibility is that seafoam contaminated my spark plugs which now results in weaker spark...which would explain slower acceleration, and no difference in how smooth the engine runs. Oh and also I went from 0w-40 Mobil 1 to 5w-40 Castrol after using seafoam.
I wish I would have though of this before, but using my old spark plugs while using seafoam would have helped.
More than likely as soon as the weather gets nicer, I will be removing my intake manifold and doing some cleaning with it off the car. Cleaning inside the manifold and then maybe even taking a brush and throttle body cleaner to my intake valves.


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

Must do this for my next oil change....!


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## FuN:TuRBO (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Rogerthat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rogerthat* »_
Are sure it wasn't one these that fixed it? 









HAHHA HHA AHA AHAH HAA AH


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Dark Anghell)*

I don't know where this whole "suck up fluid until it kills the engine" idea came from (this was mentioned earlier in this thread). 
As I understand it, the basic premise of using the basketball needle is to moderate the intake rate of the fluid. If one were just going to flood the crap out of the engine with fluid, then why use the needle? I understood the original post from dsire, who outlined this procedure, was to suck up a little at a time and let the engine "digest" it in between "doses".


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## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_I don't know where this whole "suck up fluid until it kills the engine" idea came from (this was mentioned earlier in this thread). 
As I understand it, the basic premise of using the basketball needle is to moderate the intake rate of the fluid. If one were just going to flood the crap out of the engine with fluid, then why use the needle? I understood the original post from dsire, who outlined this procedure, was to suck up a little at a time and let the engine "digest" it in between "doses".

Yeah, sounds like a safe bet. I heard of the ol' guys just dumping it in their old low compression V8s... but a few ml of fluid wasn't going to break anything. There is something to be said for letting it get sucked in, and then stop the motor to let it break up the deposits... but not KILL it... suck up TOO much and it could bend a rod or worse...


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (CiDirkona)*

And this shall be done right before an engine oil change.....!
The question is, what shall we do to remedy the problem? Block off the PCV and put a breather? Get the BSH Catch Can? What is the best bet?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (B3sat16v)*

Pages 6 and 7 on this thread have lots of good info and links that are trying to answer that question:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...art=6
The more I learn the more a "slashcut" system makes sense to me. It is simple, pulls out gases under vacuum, limited or no potential for freezing and gunk going into the intake is eliminated. (see Moroso diagram on page 7 of link above).


_Modified by saaber2 at 2:44 PM 3-16-2009_


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_Pages 6 and 7 on this thread have lots of good info and links that are trying to answer that question:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...art=6
The more I learn the more a "slashcut" system makes sense to me. It is simple, pulls out gases under vacuum, limited or no potential for freezing and gunk going into the intake is eliminated. (see Moroso diagram on page 7 of link above).



I am digging that Moroso System... Simply use the higher pressure of the exhaust to pull a Vac on the engine. I am thinking about plugging the rear and front, but how do I plug the rear?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (B3sat16v)*

Yea you pay to have the nozzle installed one time into the exhaust and no ongoing worries about emptying catch cans, etc. On the Honda thread where he evaluated all the different techniques, I believe the slashcut system is what he ended up sticking with.
BSH and FFE have more elegant solutions to plug the rear and I wonder if they would sell those pieces alone?
In reading this self study guide which has a good blowup of the pcv system, It doesn't look like it would be very hard to block the rear.
http://vw.nate-online.com/techdocs/2.0L FSI.pdf


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*

I have been thinking about making my own catch can system using an oil separator from a compressor rig. Those can be bought from McMasterCarr, Gainger and even locally.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (B3sat16v)*

FYI found the lubro-moly valve cleaner for only $3.79 at napa the other day. That is damn cheap!


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_FYI found the lubro-moly valve cleaner for only $3.79 at napa the other day. That is damn cheap!

Heads over to NAPA to check it out....! Is this better than Seafoam? Do I apply it the same way?


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (B3sat16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B3sat16v* »_
Heads over to NAPA to check it out....! Is this better than Seafoam? Do I apply it the same way?

it has a higher concentration of Naptha in it than seafoam, but is a smaller volume can. you can also get any of these and dose them UP with straight Naptha from Homy Depot. Seafoam is just Naptha and castor Oil.


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (iGen3)*

I will do this for my next oil change....


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## masterkaj (Feb 22, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (B3sat16v)*

What is the standard method that the dealer/shops use to clear the intake valves, and how much does it normally cost.
Just trying to learn more information on this subject.


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## Uber-A3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (masterkaj)*

This whole thing sounds like a sales pitch for snake oil. Reminds me of the Motorup commercial from the 90's. Without inspecting the valves before and after you have no idea what improvement this made. How do you not know that after doing it you just think it is running better because of the placebo effect? I am not saying it doesn't work but I would like to see some actual proof. I could put a squirt of ATF down every spark plug hole and give you one hell of a smoke show.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Uber-A3)*

You need to either read more about the subject or get more experience with cars. Fortunately ignorance is curable.


_Modified by saaber2 at 12:18 PM 3-19-2009_


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## Uber-A3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_You need to either read more about the subject or get more experience with cars. Fortunately ignorance is curable.

_Modified by saaber2 at 12:18 PM 3-19-2009_

So is being a pompous arrogant jerkoff. I have plenty of experience with cars and fail to see what that has anything to do with my original statement.


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Uber-A3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Uber-A3* »_This whole thing sounds like a sales pitch for snake oil. Reminds me of the Motorup commercial from the 90's. Without inspecting the valves before and after you have no idea what improvement this made. How do you not know that after doing it you just think it is running better because of the placebo effect? I am not saying it doesn't work but I would like to see some actual proof. I could put a squirt of ATF down every spark plug hole and give you one hell of a smoke show.

In DI engines as you may or may not know the injector seats directly under the intake valves in the chamber (At least in our cars, but it can literally be anywhere where space allows). This unfortunately causes a lot of oil deposits on the intake valves due to the PCV system. Now there a cure, and that is to vent the gases to the outside, or get a catch can installed (still some oil will come through with the can, but not nearly as much as before). Unfortunately, until the problem is solved a lot of oil will seat on the valves and get cooked up (Becomes a solid carbon and adheres to the metal pretty good). These deposits can also damage injectors if they get bad enough. I barely burn oil in my car so I know my valves are not going to be too bad. Now we are not saying that Sea Foam is the best solution, but it seems to be helping a lot of cars idle smoother. If these deposits are bad enough the valves wont seal properly (It has to get really really bad). All we do is try it and feel the results. I could tare my car down and check the result, but I do not have the time I used to, but will keep you informed on how it feels.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (B3sat16v)*

B3sat16v you are more patient than me to explain this stuff. Good for you! 
It is such an obvious and well known problem with this engine with countless pictures etc. of valve deposits at 800 miles, 3700 miles, 22k miles, etc.. Also thousands of people have been using seafoam and other solvents to clean intake valves for what 30 years, 40 years?. 
Again, I'm glad you are patient to explain things and I should be more so too but when I see people who don't even bother to take the time to educate themselves and then just bash things they know nothing about I get impatient.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_B3sat16v you are more patient than me to explain this stuff. Good for you! 
It is such an obvious and well known problem with this engine with countless pictures etc. of valve deposits at 800 miles, 3700 miles, 22k miles, etc.. Also thousands of people have been using seafoam and other solvents to clean intake valves for what 30 years, 40 years?. 
Again, I'm glad you are patient to explain things and I should be more so too but when I see people who don't even bother to take the time to educate themselves and then just bash things they know nothing about I get impatient.

_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_B3sat16v you are more patient than me to explain this stuff. Good for you! 
It is such an obvious and well known problem with this engine with countless pictures etc. of valve deposits at 800 miles, 3700 miles, 22k miles, etc.. Also thousands of people have been using seafoam and other solvents to clean intake valves for what 30 years, 40 years?. 
Again, I'm glad you are patient to explain things and I should be more so too but when I see people who don't even bother to take the time to educate themselves and then just bash things they know nothing about I get impatient.

Most of those cars that have been using seafoam to "clean intake valves" also have port injection which naturally keeps the valves clean. 
Seafoam doesn't work for this application. 
Dave


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## Uber-A3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B3sat16v* »_
In DI engines as you may or may not know the injector seats directly under the intake valves in the chamber (At least in our cars, but it can literally be anywhere where space allows). This unfortunately causes a lot of oil deposits on the intake valves due to the PCV system. Now there a cure, and that is to vent the gases to the outside, or get a catch can installed (still some oil will come through with the can, but not nearly as much as before). Unfortunately, until the problem is solved a lot of oil will seat on the valves and get cooked up (Becomes a solid carbon and adheres to the metal pretty good). These deposits can also damage injectors if they get bad enough. I barely burn oil in my car so I know my valves are not going to be too bad. Now we are not saying that Sea Foam is the best solution, but it seems to be helping a lot of cars idle smoother. If these deposits are bad enough the valves wont seal properly (It has to get really really bad). All we do is try it and feel the results. I could tare my car down and check the result, but I do not have the time I used to, but will keep you informed on how it feels. 

i understand the characteristics of the fsi engine that cause the problem you are speaking about. I have pulled my intake manifold off when I replaced my injectors and know first hand what the intake valves can look like. I at no time argued that these motor don't have this problem. My point was that without doing a before and after comparison you only have your impression of what you feel the improvement was. If you read my post I said that I was not saying this treatment did not work I would just like to see proof of the actual benefit. Just because the thing is making a lot of smoke means nothing.


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_B3sat16v you are more patient than me to explain this stuff. Good for you! 
Again, I'm glad you are patient to explain things and I should be more so too but when I see people who don't even bother to take the time to educate themselves and then just bash things they know nothing about I get impatient.

I didn't need anything explained and with your attitude I would have a hard time listening to anything worthwhile you might have to say.


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Most of those cars that have been using seafoam to "clean intake valves" also have port injection which naturally keeps the valves clean. 
Seafoam doesn't work for this application. 
Dave

Actually Dave, it does work to some degree (Nothing will work as well as taking the head out and let it soak in some kerosene or diesel). Also Sea Foam can be poured directly into the intake manifold (Prior to the injection point) to help with the manifold carbon deposits, which can occur and have occurred in no DI engines. In essence if you use good fuel in a multi-port injected car, there is no need to clean the intake. The need is to reroute the PCV and use a Catch Can, this will keep a nicely dry intake.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (B3sat16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B3sat16v* »_
Actually Dave, it does work to some degree (Nothing will work as well as taking the head out and let it soak in some kerosene or diesel). Also Sea Foam can be poured directly into the intake manifold (Prior to the injection point) to help with the manifold carbon deposits, which can occur and have occurred in no DI engines. In essence if you use good fuel in a multi-port injected car, there is no need to clean the intake. The need is to reroute the PCV and use a Catch Can, this will keep a nicely dry intake. 

Have you witnessed this first hand? 
Any benefits from seafoam can simply be due to cleaning of carbon from the piston tops or exhaust valves. 
Dave


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Uber-A3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Uber-A3* »_
i understand the characteristics of the fsi engine that cause the problem you are speaking about. I have pulled my intake manifold off when I replaced my injectors and know first hand what the intake valves can look like. I at no time argued that these motor don't have this problem. My point was that without doing a before and after comparison you only have your impression of what you feel the improvement was. If you read my post I said that I was not saying this treatment did not work I would just like to see proof of the actual benefit. Just because the thing is making a lot of smoke means nothing.

I didn't need anything explained and with your attitude I would have a hard time listening to anything worthwhile you might have to say.


You are right, the smoke comes from the Sea Foam being combusted, but if you look at some of the videos, the smoke changes colors in occasions, meaning other chemicals are being mixed/combusted in this case could be the carbon letting loose. I am not saying doing it once will clean it right away. It will take a complete eradication of the PCV passing through the intake the fix the issue and many many cleanings. 
And the two of you should be nice to each other. Good day...


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Have you witnessed this first hand? 
Any benefits from seafoam can simply be due to cleaning of carbon from the piston tops or exhaust valves. 
Dave

Actually Dave, I have! I witnessed it in my own VWs (16Vs at that). I like many other did not believe in none of these additives etc, until I started to see results. Exhaust valves are usually pretty clean in good running engine and nothing will burn off of them. 
The best way to fix the problem with our DI engines is to vent to fumes outside the block not using the intake as the pressure differential sourse (Maybe a Vac Pump set up, if necessary, or that Morosso set up that uses the exhaust as the pressure differential source). Once there is no more oil supplied to the intake valves, the old cooked oil with the help of some additives and heat and the banging of the valves will eventually fall off. They wont clean with one treatment. First the source needs to be eradicated then, the cleaning can start. Maybe a water injection kit can help as well.


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## vwisthebest (Sep 17, 2003)

I've mentioned it in other threads, but I plan to do BEFORE AND AFTER shots of the valves when I perform this procedure, at which time I will install a catch can system to not eliminate, but atleast reduce, the amount of deposits that form from then on.
I have about 2000 miles before my next oil change. I am a poor college student. I am trying to source the money and everything I will need to do the full procedure. I plan to use the lubro-moly from from NAPA and add some naptha from Home Depot to increase its potency.
I'm getting tired of all these pessimistic people. I just want a put an end to all the accusations from both sides on whether it works or not. No one at all really know FOR SURE if it works, but if you take a time to look at all the available evidence, it really seems that it works. We will find out.


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## neon200bhp (Mar 2, 2009)

u probably would have as much sucess with running some tranny fluid as you would with that seafoam crap there no way it works


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (neon200bhp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neon200bhp* »_u probably would have as much sucess with running some tranny fluid as you would with that seafoam crap there no way it works

Honestly ****. If you have nothing constructive do not post. If you have proven facts, well post them up. I do not want an opinion, I want facts.


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## gtiiiiiiii (Mar 6, 2004)

*FV-QR*

I used some seafoam today just for ****s and giggles. I did not experience any bad idling before though.
I had a lot of smoke, but that means nothing. I figure it isn't going to hurt anything anyways.


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (gtiiiiiiii)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtiiiiiiii* »_I used some seafoam today just for ****s and giggles. I did not experience any bad idling before though.
I had a lot of smoke, but that means nothing. I figure it isn't going to hurt anything anyways.

Did you change your oil afterward?


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Uber-A3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Uber-A3* »_
i understand the characteristics of the fsi engine that cause the problem you are speaking about. I at no time argued that these motor don't have this problem. My point was that without doing a before and after comparison you only have your impression of what you feel the improvement was. If you read my post I said that I was not saying this treatment did not work I would just like to see proof of the actual benefit. Just because the thing is making a lot of smoke means nothing.

I agree 100%. There has so far been little to no proof that this does anything. The person that said it is worthless has as much proof as the others that say you need to do it. So far it is everyone's opinion. As for it being a problem on everyone's car I still have only seen a small sample of problems compared to the populations of 2.0T's. What is the count up to, 5? It may turn out that everyone does need to Seafoam and as some determined interval but right now it is just speculation.


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## gtiiiiiiii (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B3sat16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B3sat16v* »_
Did you change your oil afterward?

No. You're not supposed to change it right afterwards. If I had used it in my crankcase it's advisable to change it after 50-75 miles so that it can continue breaking up the gunk inside the motor. Using it through the intake manifold doesn't allow any to go into the oil, besides very minute amounts getting past the rings, but it's not going to be enough to hurt anything.
I'll probably change it after another 150 miles or so since it's about due.


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (gtiiiiiiii)*

The Seafoam wars of 2009........


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (jmj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmj* »_The Seafoam wars of 2009........

QFT hahahaha! Like I said doing the seafoam once without actually taking care of the problem is not going to do much! Actually even if you take care of the PCV seafoam must be used more than once. Still the best method is to soak the valves.


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## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Rogerthat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rogerthat* »_Did you try putting in a bigger screw?

That's how I lost my girl freind once the screw she was using didn't fit tight enough and she try putting a larger one in there there's no way that first screw is going back in there.


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## Uber-A3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (fahrenheit 525)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fahrenheit 525* »_
That's how I lost my girl freind once the screw she was using didn't fit tight enough and she try putting a larger one in there there's no way that first screw is going back in there. 























I heard the real reason was she didn't want to be seen in a yellow car.


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## plutoR (Aug 24, 2006)

*Re: Seafoam adventures... (saaber2)*

Hi there chaps , 
If you look at the pic's the the OP posted on page 1 , there is an OEM diagram stuck onto the front valance to the side of the bonnet catch - It shows the vacuum circuit in the engine bay - I need that - desparado's ... pleeeeeze.. anyone ..
Thanks in advance ..


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

when you do this induction service do you block off the catch can ports on the head or do you leave it connected?


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## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)

*Re: (JLT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JLT* »_when you do this induction service do you block off the catch can ports on the head or do you leave it connected?

I've only got the Stage One BSH PCV, so I didn't have to block anything off. I'm guessing that if you HAVE catch can ports, your intake manifold probably is no longer connected to your PCV system, and you should be alright.


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (CiDirkona)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CiDirkona* »_
I've only got the Stage One BSH PCV, so I didn't have to block anything off. I'm guessing that if you HAVE catch can ports, your intake manifold probably is no longer connected to your PCV system, and you should be alright.

I still fail to see why our cars need that PCV crap on the intake manifold. The rear one is sufficient given the fact that it will always be in vac (Drawing the fumes out) since it is preturbo inlet.


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## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)

*Re: (B3sat16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B3sat16v* »_
I still fail to see why our cars need that PCV crap on the intake manifold. The rear one is sufficient given the fact that it will always be in vac (Drawing the fumes out) since it is preturbo inlet. 

Yeah, they have alot of things they don't need. I'm guessing it's due to the itake vacuum at idle being in the 18-20inhg range that can provide some (read: more) suction that at the turbo inlet at idle.


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## plutoR (Aug 24, 2006)

*Re: (CiDirkona)*

anyone got the pic attached to the valance next to the the hood catch ?? It's a pic of the vac system.. please ...


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## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)

*Re: (plutoR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *plutoR* »_anyone got the pic attached to the valance next to the the hood catch ?? It's a pic of the vac system.. please ...


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (CiDirkona)*

I have noticed something. When I plugged the front one, I would get a funny noise out of my filter. Like a compressor pumping noise (Reciprocating Compressor).


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