# Changing my setup...need Tips (A nater-type thread)



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

As of 3/19/06- 
she looks like this... 








looking to finish it up this week - then take it for tune http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
__________________________________________________________________________
Hi Guys - Here is the deal - Right now my car is running a stage II kit from EIP - Car runs great but my goals for the car have changed and I'm looking for more power... 
I'm going to install the following components and then take the car up to Jeff to get a custom tune done with 42lb injectors...
I have a bunch of questions so I'm hoping you guys will be able to help me out - I have never tackled a project like this so bear with me - I'm doing all the work at my friend's shop and he has mechanical know-how and will be helping me along with this along with executing everyone's tips...








The Current Setup:








*Parts for the new setup: *
-T4 60-1 P-Trim : .81 a/r 
-C2 8.5:1 Headspacer
-Schimmel A/W Intercooler Setup
----intercooler
----heat exchanger 
----water tank
----meziere pump
-C2 shortrunner 
-ATP exhaust manifold (switching manifolds to make the plumbing easier)
-ATP 3" Downpipe
-Tial 38mm wastegate is replacing my deltagate mkII 
-Bosch 42lb injectors (en-route from kinetic)
-4" MAF Housing (en-route from kinetic)
Pics: 

































Ok now here comes the questions... 
Here is a list of everything I have ordered from atp to convert everythings... 
MIA-FST-031 8mm (1.25pitch) Nut, Locking Head 
MIA-FST-030 8mm (1.25pitch) Stud 
GRT-GSK-006 T04 Inlet Gasket 
GRT-GSK-003 T04 Outlet Gasket (4 Bolt) 
ATP-FLS-016 Steel - 3.00" Flange 3 Bolt - Generic 
ATP-FLS-012 Steel - Vband Flange Machined for 3.00 Inch Tube 
ATP-FLS-004 Steel - External Wastegate Drilled Flange 
ATP-FLA-004 GReddy Type S, R, RS Modular Weld-On Flange Kit 
TBN-GSK-001 External Wastegate Gasket (35-38mm) 
MIA-GSK-009 Exhaust Gasket 3.00" Generic
*Now What parts do you not see that I will need to complete this... 
I'll be getting the piping from a local shop...
-My head hurts from trying to figure out every gasket, nut and bolt I'll need so I'm stuck - I know I need a new (longer) oil return line but I'm not sure which one to get. *

Setup "look" I am going for--- 
Image taken from Schimmel's website...









I'll post up as I complete things... 
Thanks in advance guys... 



_Modified by herbehop at 11:29 PM 3-19-2006_


----------



## ShaggyVR6 (Jul 3, 2003)

the atp downpipe don;t fit very well at all needs alot of modifaction. mise aswell make one your self.
i think u missing inline fuel pump in setup also. and u need to reroute your bov now


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (ShaggyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ShaggyVR6* »_the atp downpipe don;t fit very well at all needs alot of modifaction. mise aswell make one your self.
i think u missing inline fuel pump in setup also. and u need to reroute your bov now

I was worried about the downpipe... thanks for the heads up - Bill said if there was a problem with it I could send it back to him... 
As for the reroute- I'll also be doing that when I do the new plumbing - 
Fuel Pump- I have one in the car that was included in the EIP kit - I wonder if that one will be sufficient


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Suggestions:
1. get a larger Turbine housing 
(.6x or .8x if you have T4 Turbine)
(.8x if you have T3 Turbine)

2. Port the ATP manifold to match your Turbine housing:
i.e. 'gasket match' If you have a T4 turbine there is a bunch
of material you can remove as the opening is sized for a T3.

Your current in-line fuel pump (with stock tank pump)
will be ~plenty sufficient you keep you well fueled.

-Jeff


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*

Your basically going to be running the same setup as me. the install part shouldn't be hard at all, its just a matter of nuts and bolts. Don't expect to put it together in a single weekend your first time though, there will be a lot of little things you'll forget. Just take your time and do it once and do right or do it twice.
I would get a WB on that list also, its a must have for a turbo car.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_Your basically going to be running the same setup as me. the install part shouldn't be hard at all, its just a matter of nuts and bolts. Don't expect to put it together in a single weekend your first time though, there will be a lot of little things you'll forget. Just take your time and do it once and do right or do it twice.
I would get a WB on that list also, its a must have for a turbo car.

Your setup also is one of the ones that inspired mine (hope you don't mind







) 
Already got a LM-1 - http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## cncpete (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*

I am sure Jeff has already offered but if you need any help with the fab/mechanic work, just let us know. This is Pete, one of Jeff's partners at Sleepers Peroformance. Here's a little sample of our work... I do all the fab' stuff.








And yes the ATP DP does not fit well on a MK4. I had to modify Shaggy's to fit, and the one on the car in the pic. Think we will make our own from now on. Not to hijack but Shaggy you gotta check out your exhaust.. came out sick http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Rest of the piping will be done soon.
Anyway, good luck with it man! Looks like your list is pretty good, but you know there are always those couple extra bits you need.
-Pete


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (cncpete)*

Hi Pete -
I was actually going to orginally have you guys do everything - but I want to be able to say I did some work myself








-At this point - My realistic goal is to get the IC installed with all the parts accociated with it - 
-Get the Turbo/manifold and oil lines hooked up. 
-Get the Intake manifold installed and do the piping for the IC and Intake manifold... 
I'm probably going to need you to make me a downpipe- Make the intake pipe with the large MAF - 

-Marc


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
Your setup also is one of the ones that inspired mine (hope you don't mind







) 
Already got a LM-1 - http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Not a problem. I'm no expert by any means so if I can put one of these together anyone can. Just keep this post updated with your progress and LOTS of pics.
Having a WB is a step in the right direction. Next I would look at the tranny. If you don't already have a diff at a minimum you NEED one, a gear set would be an excellent idea also, either APTuning or the quaife box.
One thing you may want to add to your list is a hobbs switch (pressure sensing) for the AWIC pump. Instead of having a switch to flip on & off all the time or having the system run off a switched 12v source. I have mine setup to turn on at 3psi and off back at 1psi, this keeps the water in the tank cooler longer because the pump is only active when there is boost.
keep those questions coming... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (AlwaysInBoost)*

Thanks for the Info- ATP has a hobbs switch - I'll order from them when I order my oil return and other parts I'm sure I forgot... 
-As for the tranny--> Right now its an O2J with a peloquin and EIP stage 1 comp. clutch - It has performed well so far - so I'm gonig to stick with it until it breaks- 
When it goes on me I'll probably go with an APTuning gearset...


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*

Nice project...keep us updated with lots of pics.

Chris
C2


----------



## scarboroughdub (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (C2Motorsports)*

only thing i dont like about the schimmel setup is that 90 degree silicone boot right off the compressor housing.


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (scarboroughdub)*

I originally thought the same thing so when I had my pipes redone in aluminum I and a long 90* welded on the compressor housing like so...








this was the before pic:








Honestly I doubt it made "that" much difference though.


----------



## 2002_Turbo (Nov 30, 2004)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Keep us updated


----------



## burtonguy567 (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*

sick set-up and soon to be set-up...i bet ur kicking urself in the A$s after u blew all that money on the EIP kit though







...if u don't mind why are you getting rid of the EIP kit?i can understand the short runner and A/W intercooler but the rest confuses me a bit...but reguardless it will run and ofcoarse look niice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## gregaf3 (Apr 22, 2002)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (burtonguy567)*

set up looks sweet, the funny thing is that I just sold my schimmel a/w set up to go with a fmic..... The a/w set up was just not good for the street. I had some crazy high intake temps with the a/w set up... not like I could add ice all of the time. now I just have to get off of my butt and order/make my ic piping.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (burtonguy567)*


_Quote, originally posted by *burtonguy567* »_sick set-up and soon to be set-up...i bet ur kicking urself in the A$s after u blew all that money on the EIP kit though







...if u don't mind why are you getting rid of the EIP kit?i can understand the short runner and A/W intercooler but the rest confuses me a bit...but reguardless it will run and ofcoarse look niice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

At first I just wanted a simple bolt on setup -not a huge turbo -something with nice mid-range pull - 
My goals have changed now and I'm shooting for big power- EIP setup served its purpose well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (gregaf3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gregaf3* »_set up looks sweet, the funny thing is that I just sold my schimmel a/w set up to go with a fmic..... The a/w set up was just not good for the street. I had some crazy high intake temps with the a/w set up... not like I could add ice all of the time. now I just have to get off of my butt and order/make my ic piping. 

I remember reading that intake temps were actually more consistant with A/W setups








Anyone else have input...Marc- How does yours run on the street? 

PS. The tear down starts tomorrow - 
I plan on uninstalling all the existing hardware - and porting out the ATP manifold... 

A little update- It looks like I am going to change the turbo also (Jeff, i think you convinced me







) 
Thinking T4 Garrrett with a .69 a/r
As far as silicone is concerned - Does anyone know a place that stocks the stuff on the eastcoast - I want to get it here for Friday but I don't want to pay an arm and leg in shipping - Suggestions? 


_Modified by herbehop at 11:00 PM 2-15-2006_


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (scarboroughdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *scarboroughdub* »_only thing i dont like about the schimmel setup is that 90 degree silicone boot right off the compressor housing.

I thought about that also- But then again- I would only be concerned with that if Schimmel's setups weren't making power- We all know thats not the case


----------



## gregaf3 (Apr 22, 2002)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*

well I did not have any way to cool it down for the street, I ran 5/8 hoses front to back and it was hard to find a core to cool it down. I put ice in the tank a few times for tuning and had some intake temps around 80-90.... but other then that I moved to texas and started to think about the water hitting over 120 in the summer when the car is parked.... fmic is just going to be easier for me and I wont have that annoying pump running in the back. now if you are going to drag race and do dyno pulls.... a/w is the best. I had great boost response with that short tubing also..


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*

I did a little comparison between A/A & AWIC
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2188372
something I realized after the fact was that the IAT sensor on the A/A car was located IN the maf sensor... that explains why the readings I got were so good. In order to compare apples to apples I need to install an IAT sensor in the actual piping of the A/A car.
Anyway I am very happy with the AWIC on the street. In the summer with ICE I was able to get the intake temps down to 40-50* as read by the IAT sensor in the manifold for several minutes at a time. That was with running the pump all the time. I'm sure with just water in there it would be no problem keeping the charge at ambient temp for a very long time. At best that is all an A/A unit would be able to do and that's the maximum. 
One of the big keys to this I think is the Hobbs switch. Only circulating the water when there is boost keeps your liquid cooler longer. I still haven't changed out my heat exchanger though, that will probably add even more to the efficiency. 
One other thing I am researching (maybe someone else can try it) is to add a thermostat in the system. Basically it would keep the water from going into the heat exchanger until it reached a certain temp, say 85*. That was when there is ICE in the reservoir it won't have to pass through the heat exchanger on a 90*-100* day and potentially get even hotter then if it would have bypassed it.


----------



## gregaf3 (Apr 22, 2002)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (AlwaysInBoost)*

true... I always wonder hot accurate that the inlet temp sensor is anyways... esp if you have a short runner right next to the radiator... I know that I can feel my intake and it is hot


----------



## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
At first I just wanted a simple bolt on setup -not a huge turbo -something with nice mid-range pull - 
My goals have changed now and I'm shooting for big power- EIP setup served its purpose well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Did you ever figure out why you were only making 300whp @ 15-17 psi with the EIP kit? If it was the head did you replace/fix it?


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (tekstepvr6)*

^Brian - You have IM -

I started everything today- Old turbo kit is off, lots of things are a parts and I have questions, but- I'm too tired to ask a clear question so I will post back tomorrow - Everything went pretty smoothly so far though - 
Here is a picture of how everything stands right now...


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*

Ok - 
On the intake manifold - there were 4 things plugged into the back of the stock manifold. 
What do I do with these lines now that I am using the shortrunner? 
Pics that show what I'm talking about...


----------



## VRQUICK (Sep 20, 2000)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*

They look like they are just vacuum lines. Just get or make a vacuum manifold.


----------



## cncpete (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*

Marc,
You need to supply them with vacuum from the SR. One is the brake booster, 2 come from the fuel tank (evap stuff) and I don't remember what the other one is, but same deal. If you look in the pic I posted of Brian's car, right above the brake booster, to the left of the boost controller solenoid you'll see a distribution block we mounted to supply various parts. You might want to look into doing something similar. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Nice progress so far
-Pete


----------



## CuseTownGTi (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (cncpete)*

damn dude http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (cncpete)*

Thanks Pete http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Here is what I am looking at for a vacuum manifold... 








From: http://www.airtxinternational....s.php
Update on progress- 
The head came off today - I decided to drop the compression using a C2 8.5:1 headspacer- That will go in on sunday when I put the head back on... 
I also ordered a new turbo from Clay today - Garrett T4 60-1 P-Trim, non hi-fi, .81 a/r 
Sunday My goals are to get the head back on- port the atp manifold, mount water-tank, mount heat exchanger, and run plumbing for that. 
I will post back with updates/questions as I have them...
Thanks guys-
Marc


----------



## cncpete (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_Thanks Pete http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Here is what I am looking at for a vacuum manifold... 








From: http://www.airtxinternational....s.php


Hey Marc,
That thing looks nice... might be a little excessive for what you need though. I'll hit you up with an IM where to get them. You're gonna need some barbed fittings too, for the manifold and out of the SR. 
Oh, another thing I just remembered. You're gonna need an air intake temp. sensor from a MK3 to plug one of the ports on the bottom of that intake... you're mk4 does not use it.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif keep it up man, sounds like you're moving right along.


_Modified by cncpete at 6:02 PM 2-17-2006_


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (cncpete)*

Updated Pictures








USPS was supposed to deliver the new headspacer yesterday but they didn't - I don't think I'll ever use them again - thats the 3rd thing this month they delivered late for me. So that throws off putting the head back on today...
Going to see what else I can get done....
By the way - anyone see anything wrong with the pistons at all? Three of them have spots that are not black - I was wondering why they are like that... Click the pic for High Resolution.


----------



## RedDevil (Sep 21, 2001)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (cncpete)*

Any more pics of this setup?

_Quote, originally posted by *cncpete* »_I am sure Jeff has already offered but if you need any help with the fab/mechanic work, just let us know. This is Pete, one of Jeff's partners at Sleepers Peroformance. Here's a little sample of our work... I do all the fab' stuff.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (RedDevil)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedDevil* »_Any more pics of this setup?


http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2094880


----------



## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
I also ordered a new turbo from Clay today - Garrett T4 60-1 P-Trim, non hi-fi, .81 a/r 


I have the same turbo. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Jeff liked it so much that he bought the exact same one from Clay also.
The turbo has alittle lag to it but the top end is great.
I will be getting new numbers on the car this Saturday at AP Tunings dyno day.
Progress looks good Marc, can't wait to see the end result. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (tekstepvr6)*

Got a fitment issue... 
Not sure what this is (I think its the combi valve) won't line up properly with the shortrunner...


----------



## gregaf3 (Apr 22, 2002)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*

well you can do some cutting and make it fit, esp if you have emissions.... or you can use this 










http://www.42draftdesigns.com/vr6saiplug.htm


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (gregaf3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gregaf3* »_well you can do some cutting and make it fit, esp if you have emissions.... or you can use this 
http://www.42draftdesigns.com/vr6saiplug.htm

Yea...I have OBDII emissions- It looks like I'll have to cut then - I have the 42Draft plug- but I don't think that is an option for me


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

Update~ 
New headspacer got here today (C2 8.5:1) 
Installed it and put the head back on - 
I'm waiting on gaskets from the dealership which should be arriving tomorrow- Tomorrow I'm going to try to get the shortrunner on...


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Couple of Stupid questions that I don't know the answer too... 
I want to finish ordering everything I need...
For the T4... Regarding the oil feed/ return lines... 
link to atp's oil supply page... 
http://www.atpturbo.com/Mercha...e=OIL
What size feed line is sufficient? There are -3, -4, and -5...
Which Return line to I need? 
Do I need a restrictor? 

As far as mounting the turbo goes... 
Which studs/nuts and washers do you guys use to mount it to the atp manifold? 
TIA


----------



## RedDevil (Sep 21, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*

-4 oil feed
-10 oil return 
and yes to oil restrictor, (your turbo will thank you)









_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_Couple of Stupid questions that I don't know the answer too... 
I want to finish ordering everything I need...
For the T4... Regarding the oil feed/ return lines... 
link to atp's oil supply page... 
http://www.atpturbo.com/Mercha...e=OIL
What size feed line is sufficient? There are -3, -4, and -5...
Which Return line to I need? 
Do I need a restrictor? 

As far as mounting the turbo goes... 
Which studs/nuts and washers do you guys use to mount it to the atp manifold? 
TIA


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (RedDevil)*

Thanks Paul http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
As for the studs/Nuts, 
Can anyone help me out ?


----------



## BillShanley (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Oil restrictor is completely unnecessary unless you drive a 1.8t.


----------



## gregaf3 (Apr 22, 2002)

*Re: (herbehop)*

well for the hardware I just bought the kit from atp 

http://www.atpturbo.com/Mercha...VWHAR

as far as the manifold to head studs, I just bought them through pap...


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (gregaf3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gregaf3* »_well for the hardware I just bought the kit from atp 
http://www.atpturbo.com/Mercha...VWHAR


How did I miss that















Thanks Greg








I'll have more pics up tomorrow - I'm making good progress- I have just about everything I need now -Just waiting for that turbo now


----------



## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Hows the progress coming Marc?


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (tekstepvr6)*

Everything is coming along pretty good...Fitment in a couple of areas got tricky but we are working through it... 
Biggest hold up right now is parts. Everything I need to finish should be here by this weekend. I am shooting to have everything complete by this weekend- Then I'll have to figure out a way to tow this thing up to Jeff... 
First pic is everything mocked up - Right now the shortrunner is on with injectors and fuel rail... 
Vacuum lines are rerouted, water lines are 1/2 done... 
Headspacer is in... 

I am not going to be able to work on it again until friday night [not going out till this thing is done







] 
I will post up a full update this weekend. 
Some downtime from waiting on parts led to this, my friend helping me out actually did it -


















_Modified by herbehop at 11:38 PM 2-28-2006_


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

Turbo came in today... 
Went to mount it to the manifold and...
The studs that came with the atp bolt kit seem too large - Has anyone else ran into this problem in the past? 
What is the correct size for the studs? 

And a new pic to compare the new and the old...


----------



## o$car (Oct 16, 2005)

Marc, your thirsty ....


----------



## cncpete (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (herbehop)*

I think they are M10 x 1.5, or maybe M8 x 1.5. I can find out for sure though. But what do you mean they are too large? They don't thread into the manifold, or they don't fit through the holes in the turbo??
-Pete


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (cncpete)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cncpete* »_I think they are M10 x 1.5, or maybe M8 x 1.5. I can find out for sure though. But what do you mean they are too large? They don't thread into the manifold, or they don't fit through the holes in the turbo??
-Pete

They are very difficult to thread into the manifold - but they seem like they are a bit too large-
They are the M10 x 1.5 ones


----------



## VeDubgtiVR6 (Apr 27, 2000)

*Re: (herbehop)*

They might be M10 x1.25


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (VeDubgtiVR6)*

Well- As far as I can tell- My manifold was drilled incorrectly for the studs - the M10s that were supposed to fit - did not - 
having my local machine shop fix it up for me and I'll be installing the turbo tomorrow night hopefully... 
Starting to do some piping for the intercooler in the meantime... 
I picked up a small Deka ETX14 battery to save on space - 
Started doing the coolant reroute- I'm shooting to have this all done or almost all done this weekend.








I can't wait till this thing runs...


----------



## JPLengineer (Jul 7, 2005)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*

Have fun putting on that C2 Quickflow,
It was a tight fit, but not for me.
But when you do it, please let me know what you did with the metal bracket for the 2ndaryt air injection pump. I had to toss the bracket designed for a fork life, but holds a 2-lb pump. I just got rid of it and then used tie wraps, but I'd like to use it if possible.
I also stripped a bolt for the intake manifold, which I still need to drill out and re-tap with a larger thread size.
By the way . .you're going to need an MK3 fuel rail when you convert over. The MK4 fuel rail will not work. I got one at the junk yard.
In the pic from Schimmel, they have a aftermarket fuel rail, does Schimmel sell it, I wouldn't mind getting that.
When you put on the Intake, you're going to have to take off the entire front end of the car, it is just impossible to reach the middle 2 bolts on the bottom of the manifold.
When you put on the SHort Runner, you will be using your stock TB. Where the TB is mounted now, has a ground wire from the TB to the engine. This is b/c the stock Intake is a composite material and does not conduct. So when you put it on the quickflow, check the TB if it is grounded through the gasket. Mine did, so I just ditched the ground wire. Check . it depoends on the TB gasket you use.
Good luck man,
At what RPM do you think you'll get full boost with that big turbo?


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*

looking good Marc http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
take your time and make sure you pressure test your intake for leaks before you put everything back together.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (JPLengineer)*

The quickflow is all mounted - With MKIII rail, and injectors. 
The only issue I had w/ the secondary air was that I had to cut off the tab on manifold that you secure the dipstick to. Besides that I got everything to work. 
You will probably have an issue with rad. hoses when you go to bolt on the throttle body. We got it to work- but boy was it a pain. 
As for the schimmel fuel rail- he does indeed sell them- its a very nice piece- the only reason I didn't get it was because he didn't have any in stock when I needed one... He should have them now though 
You will also need to get an adapter from him for use with a stock fuel system. The adapter will provide for both feed and return. 
as for spool - I don't know - I tekstepvr6 has the same turbo - so he would be able to answer the question better... 
I do know the unit has incredible top end power though.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_looking good Marc http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
take your time and make sure you pressure test your intake for leaks before you put everything back together. 

Thanks, 
what would be the best way (or tool to use) to go about pressure testing everything?


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*

the "best" way in my opinion is to install all your intake plumbing like normal then pull the intake off the compressor housing and install a plug or cap with an air nipple on it for an air compressor. Then just pressurize the intake track just as if the turbo was spooling up... listen for and leaks a correct them before you put her on the road.
Pressuring testing your intake track is something that should be as common as checking your oil.


----------



## RedDevil (Sep 21, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*

By looks of it, rad support needed a lot of trimming.
I am surprised you didn't route oil dipstik between head and intake between the runners.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (RedDevil)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedDevil* »_By looks of it, rad support needed a lot of trimming.
I am surprised you didn't route oil dipstik between head and intake between the runners.
[/img]








It really doesn't need that much - That was an F-up...


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_the "best" way in my opinion is to install all your intake plumbing like normal then pull the intake off the compressor housing and install a plug or cap with an air nipple on it for an air compressor. Then just pressurize the intake track just as if the turbo was spooling up... listen for and leaks a correct them before you put her on the road.
Pressuring testing your intake track is something that should be as common as checking your oil. 

Sounds good - I'll right something up and test it out when I finish the piping this weekend. - http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

The turbo is in! 
Didn't fit at all at first so we broke out the air tools and started hammering away- After about 15 minutes of banging crap around we go it to fit. 
I will snap some pics today - I want to get this crap finished already. At this point, I'm just tying up loose ends and finishing the piping- 
My latest problem is trying to find out how to get this thing to CT to get tuned








I can drive the car there Problem is... I have no downpipe or WG dump... 
Uhaul is going to be a few hundred dollars so I'm trying to aviod that - but if thats what has to happen - I guess I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

Pics will be up tonight


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*

I've been slacking on the updates... 
Updates... 
Manifold and turbo are ready to go... 
I had to do some banging around to get the turbo to fit- it was hitting the tray where the cabin air filter is located...After about 20 minutes of banging everything fit... 
I just need to drop off my piping to get my bov flange and recirc welded on and I'll be ready to go...


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*

looking good mang. \
Please do yourself a favor and do a boost leak test before you put it on the road http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*

I plan on doing that, 
I'm just trying to figure out what to put on the end of the pipe to close it up tight so the air doesn't escape through where I'm blowing it...


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*

if your compressor inlet is 4" a fernco coupling from home depot works well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## cncpete (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Lookin'g good Marc http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Wow, you fit a tangential housing in there! I can only imagine the "bangning around" you had to do. lol looks good though. I did not realise that, because that would definetely change stuff with that ATP DP you have. You figure anything out about getting it up here yet?







maybe you should've looked into the Kinetic manifold, it's a real nice piece, we are gonna be using them from now on over the ATP one. It drops the turbo way down low. I fit my GT40R on one with no problem







. Well, keep up the good work. Definetely all the little things that take the time, huh? OBTW, I may have a bracket for your coolant bottle to go over there.
-Pete


----------



## Artistvr6 (Sep 6, 2005)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_
Did you ever figure out why you were only making 300whp @ 15-17 psi with the EIP kit? If it was the head did you replace/fix it?

i was also wondering about this, i remember talking to you back and forth a few months back when i was also thinking about geting the eip stage 2(w/ fmic) for my vr6, well its about that time and im getting ready to start ordering .my goal for whp is about 375. the stage to kit says 400+ but im expecting exaggeration. do you think 370 whp is capible with this kit? eip says that optional turbo trims are available, of the top of your head do you know which others ones they have to choose from? Which one comes with the kit itself? is ut the TO4E-6- .63 a/r? 
For the price do you think i should roll with the kit or just make a custom kit. it seems you have first hand knowledge on the stage 2 kit so it seems best to get the information you. btw if it makes a difference my model is the 01' 12v vr6. 

_Modified by Artistvr6 at 2:58 PM 3-21-2006_


_Modified by Artistvr6 at 3:11 PM 3-21-2006_


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Nice. A thread with my name in it. NICE.








How's it going so far???


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## HOVTroll (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (hazw8st)*

Great write up and information.. Cant wait to see more pics! Keep up the awesome work.. Nice and clean set up.

Cheers


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

plumbing is done








Pics later tonight


----------



## HOVTroll (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (herbehop)*

yummy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Artistvr6 (Sep 6, 2005)

_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_
Did you ever figure out why you were only making 300whp @ 15-17 psi with the EIP kit? If it was the head did you replace/fix it?

i was also wondering about this, i remember talking to you back and forth a few months back when i was also thinking about geting the eip stage 2(w/ fmic) for my vr6, well its about that time and im getting ready to start ordering .my goal for whp is about 375. the stage to kit says 400+ but im expecting exaggeration. do you think 370 whp is capible with this kit? eip says that optional turbo trims are available, of the top of your head do you know which others ones they have to choose from? Which one comes with the kit itself? is ut the TO4E-6- .63 a/r? 
For the price do you think i should roll with the kit or just make a custom kit. it seems you have first hand knowledge on the stage 2 kit so it seems best to get the information you. btw if it makes a difference my model is the 01' 12v vr6.


----------



## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (Artistvr6)*

I believe EIP uses a .57 trim for a quicker spool. With proper tuning(not just dumping a crap load of fuel in) you can get 370+whp. I made 409whp on 19psi w/ that turbo. It also was chip tuned @ the time.


----------



## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_I've been slacking on the updates... 
Updates... 
Manifold and turbo are ready to go... 
I had to do some banging around to get the turbo to fit- it was hitting the tray where the cabin air filter is located...After about 20 minutes of banging everything fit... 
I just need to drop off my piping to get my bov flange and recirc welded on and I'll be ready to go...

















its a bit difficult to tell from this picture, but I think you have the incoming Fuel Line and Return fuel line backwards. Might want to check into that to be safe. The TOP LINE is the INCOMING FUEL LINE and obviously the BOTTOM is the RETURN FUEL line. Looking good. Did you weld your piping or piece it together from ATP's wide choices?


----------



## Artistvr6 (Sep 6, 2005)

*Re: (fatfreevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fatfreevw* »_I believe EIP uses a .57 trim for a quicker spool. With proper tuning(not just dumping a crap load of fuel in) you can get 370+whp. I made 409whp on 19psi w/ that turbo. It also was chip tuned @ the time.

thanks, i ben reading around and alot of people are saying go with c2's managment and eprom.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

Don't want to be a mean guy - but I would rather not have this get into an EIP v. C2 discussion - 
We all know how defensive people get in those...


----------



## Artistvr6 (Sep 6, 2005)

haha i understand that. trust me i been reading and reading and searching and searching. and i have heard just about it all. plus this is your thread anyway. i just figured id ask someone with 1st hand experiance. haha.


----------



## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (ShaggyVR6)*

want to sell your deltagate waste gate?


----------



## HOVTroll (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

No more pics.. I am disapointed..








Looking great.. 

Cheers


----------



## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (UBER1.8t)*

get cracking and start snapin (pics), please. Would hate to delete the thread


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xpalendocious* »_want to sell your deltagate waste gate?

sold already... 

_Quote, originally posted by *fatfreevw* »_get cracking and start snapin (pics), please. Would hate to delete the thread

Took pics, forgot my camera at the shop







They will be up soon though -


----------



## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (herbehop)*

booooooooooooo


----------



## HOVTroll (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (fatfreevw)*

My weekend just got worse..








Looking forward to those pics..

Cheers


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (UBER1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UBER1.8t* »_My weekend just got worse..








Looking forward to those pics..
Cheers 

I have been horrible about taking pics lately... 
I'm trying to figure out where to hook up all these vac. lines up to and its driving me nuts- there is only one thing I hate doing - and its vacuum lines... 
I have a vac. manifold but none all of the hoses that need to go on it are different sizes and I have only 1/8 inch fittings which are too big for everything... 
I'm going to order new fittings and then give it a whirl tomorrow... 

got a question for now... 
1) Where is the best place to get vacuum for the fpr? Does length of the line or location matter or does it just need vacuum?


----------



## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

I would think that with that great C2 manifold you have there would be plenty of places to get vacuum from. As for the FPR i never like to have more than 1 foot of line becouse it looks like **** and tacky.


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*

I didn't want my FPR to see any boost so I used one of the 2 capped VAC lines near the break booster. There is a check valve there so it only goes one way.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_I didn't want my FPR to see any boost so I used one of the 2 capped VAC lines near the break booster. There is a check valve there so it only goes one way.

is it _bad_ if the fpr sees boost?


----------



## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (herbehop)*

nope. I think he(alwaysinboost)is running a stand alone, so its different for him. But in general, no...


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*

I've read that over time the FPR will fail if under boost so I didn't want to take any chances. On my setup the brake booster and the FPR are both behind a one way check valve so they only see VAC.


----------



## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*

monday morning. Some of us are waiting for those new pics!


----------



## vw-jeff (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (fatfreevw)*

OMG why in the hell would someone swap a sick set up like Eip's turbo kit for that crap







.
That engine compartment looks like hell, what were you thinking








So you got low power out of the Eip kit, did you ever try to tune it, cause everyone I know makes SICK power on there kits.
That turbo kit looks like a pick and pull junk yard kit?
That core support looks like you got it off a wreaked car http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 





_Modified by vw-jeff at 5:43 PM 3-27-2006_


----------



## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (vw-jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw-jeff* »_OMG why in the hell would someone swap a sick set up like Eip's turbo kit for that crap







.
That engine compartment looks like hell, what were you thinking








So you got low power out of the Eip kit, did you ever try to tune it, cause everyone I know makes SICK power on there kits.
That turbo kit looks like a pick and pull junk yard kit?
That core support looks like you got it off a wreaked car http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
_Modified by vw-jeff at 5:43 PM 3-27-2006_
 
someones an EIP (I use the word fanboy because I'm too cool). yes eip does make great stuff. He has every right to try something else. He even stated(i think) that he knows EIP makes great turbo kits/manifolds, but he wants to see if that was the problems.
As for it look bad? Yeah that log style manifold looks horrible. The polish is all blury and the welds looks like crap







Then there is that water to air intercooler. Everyone knows those dont work for ****. he owuld've been better off with a tiny little front mount, especially during those hot days. Then there is the wiring. Its hard to even see the car with all that wiring floating about....
dude, your an idiot. stop playing sides and show some respect. I bet you like Playstation more then anyother system because you think its the best. Well guess what, its not. DEAL WITH IT
NOW POST SOME UPDATED PICS, SLACKER!


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (fatfreevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fatfreevw* »_ 
NOW POST SOME UPDATED PICS, SLACKER!


Got some








Just a note- I'll say this *again* I do NOT want this to turn into an EIP vs. C2 thread. I think that is a fair request being that I started the thread. If anyone wants to debate that issue- start your own thread. Nobody else has to like my setup- I really don't care if someone thinks it looks like crap - I have worked hard to do it myself along with the help of friends and we are proud of the work we have done.








Updated Pics...
The welds for the DP aren't great but once again - that was a first time job too... important thing is that it doesn't leak and it will be covered in header wrap anyway.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

oh yea... as for the blue silicone... the place I got it all from (Verocious Motorsports- Good company for parts http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ) was out of black - when its back in stock I'll switch it to black


----------



## HOVTroll (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Looks great.. Awesome set up.. I hope my first set up can look just as clean. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Cheers


----------



## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (UBER1.8t)*

are the barb fittings vacuum lines? looking good


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (fatfreevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fatfreevw* »_are the barb fittings vacuum lines? looking good

Yes...
On the vacuum manifold I have the brake booster, guages, boost controller and some other vacuum line that went down towards the SAI somwhere... 
Directly on the manifold I have the vac. line for the FPR (for now I'm going to leave it there to get it running - then I'll worry about moving stuff around) and I also have the evap coming off the manifold.


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*

getting there http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Artistvr6 (Sep 6, 2005)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*

so whats the update, hows everything coming along. i hope somewhat smoothly.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (Artistvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Artistvr6* »_so whats the update, hows everything coming along. i hope somewhat smoothly.

Going to pick up my ecu from Jeff tomorrow afternoon - Then I'm finishing it up on Sunday barring any mishaps


----------



## HOVTroll (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_Going to pick up my ecu from Jeff tomorrow afternoon - Then I'm finishing it up on Sunday barring any mishaps










Are you going to have some dyno results this weekend as well??
Cheers


----------



## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: (UBER1.8t)*

i love how you can't use the word fanb0y on the vortex it's almost as funny as trying to say in bef0re the l0ck.







setup looks great.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (UBER1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UBER1.8t* »_Are you going to have some dyno results this weekend as well??
Cheers 

I am going to try and get time at some point during the week...Its going to be tough - but I'll se what I can do


----------



## CuseTownGTi (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: (herbehop)*


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

started it today- didn't drive it around yet- had a few antifreeze leaks that I have to deal with- but the idle is the smoothest it has ever been... I don't remember it being this smooth when it was stock...


----------



## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (herbehop)*

nicely done, what engine mang. are you using again?


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (fatfreevw)*

Jeff's programming...
the 42lb setup.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

Is there any special break-in procedures I should follow for the turbo - or can i just start boosting... I ran it for about 10 minutes at idle today---


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Check for leaks.
Allow the motor to come up to temperature.
Let 'er rip.
I suggest just ~8-10 psi on the 1st run to be sure the build is
good.

-Jeff


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

well- I boosted tonight-















The car is fast, very fast- I went up to 14psi tonight it was real smooth into boost-- 
My newest issue








I melted the plastic cover on the rain tray







- Has anyone had any kind of heat issues with the atp manifold? I'm not sure what I should do... 
Suggestions? 


_Modified by herbehop at 10:47 PM 4-5-2006_


----------



## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (herbehop)*

stay out of carwashes. You are probably going to need something other then plastic. maybe aluminum? I would check for carbon. I dont have personal experience with the ATP mani, but it does sit up pretty high/close to the raintray. make sure there is no leak near the flange.
edit:
its a mk 2 but i just found this. looks like it actually melted the paint of the rain tray!! http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2540979


_Modified by fatfreevw at 10:07 PM 4-5-2006_


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (fatfreevw)*

Right now I'm exploring a heatshield for the turbo and I'm going to wrap the dp in header wrap -


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

Just ordered these to help with the heat issue... 








and


----------



## CuseTownGTi (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_well- I boosted tonight-















The car is fast, very fast-


----------



## G60ing57 (Jan 25, 2005)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Hey, where did you find that manifold heat shield? that might look good... I haven't had any melting problem with mine..I'm using the Pag manifold..everything seems good from there...love the clean setup by the way http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## burtonguy567 (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (G60ing57)*

you can buy both of those at ATP...


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (burtonguy567)*


_Quote, originally posted by *burtonguy567* »_you can buy both of those at ATP...

Yup

Does anyone know if the Vac. Lines have to be a certain length for the AVC-R... 
At my 12psi setting I'm seeing more like 14-15psi...Wasn't a problem before- then again- i had different sized vac. lines... 
Any ideas?


----------



## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (herbehop)*

that could be the length of the line or the flexibility of the line. Are you using a reinforced vac line(like fuel hose, or braided line)?


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (fatfreevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fatfreevw* »_that could be the length of the line or the flexibility of the line. Are you using a reinforced vac line(like fuel hose, or braided line)?

not reinforced--- but it wasn't before either and it was accurate... so I don't think its the material that is the issue...


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*

good job http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
At my 12psi setting I'm seeing more like 14-15psi...Wasn't a problem before- then again- i had different sized vac. lines... 
Any ideas?

New wastegate or spring?
new DP or turbo?
All these things will affect boost control
-Jeff


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_New wastegate or spring?
new DP or turbo?
All these things will affect boost control
-Jeff

Yes to all of the above








So is there a way to get the AVC-R back to reading what the actual levels are?


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Congratulations on the project up and running....looking forward to your impressions of our software and Quickflow once the motor has exceeded it's break-in period http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Chris
C2


----------



## Artistvr6 (Sep 6, 2005)

so how does it feel response wise or have you ran it that much. like hows the lag on that 60-1? plus which rpms are you feeling it kick @? and etc.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
So is there a way to get the AVC-R back to reading what the actual levels are? 

Tuning: adjust solenoid duty until boost is ~close to where you want it. (turn feedback/learn off)
running: turn on feedback/learn and do a bunch of 3rd gear ~rips.
(4th if your spinning tires http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif )
from ~low 2k rpm (before spool) up close to redline.
do you have all the AVC-R sensors hooked up?
vehicle speed (and calibrated the gear multiplier)
-jeff

-Jeff


----------



## Artistvr6 (Sep 6, 2005)

new news?


----------



## HOTSKILLET98 (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (cncpete)*

bump! I need some plumbing for a quickflow manifold. I'm thinking about the drivers side t-body for a cleaner look


----------



## CuseTownGTi (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (HOTSKILLET98)*

i need some numbers and a video
*scratches neck a-la Tyrone biggums*


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (CuseTownGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CuseTownGTi* »_i need some numbers and a video
*scratches neck a-la Tyrone biggums*

Need to work out an issue with my avc-r - For some reason I lost boost control... 
I'm going to try and mess with it a bit today...


----------



## CuseTownGTi (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: Changing my setup...need Tips (herbehop)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------

