# Engine Flush



## 88jettaguy (Mar 4, 2008)

Hey I was listening the a radio show they mentioned doing an "Engine Flush'' they didn't say if it would help or as waste of time. 

What are your thoughts opinion or experiences with doing an ''Engine Flush" ?


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

I think it depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Many people say that it's safer to clean an engine more slowly with something like Mobil1 High Mileage, Rotella T6 5W-40, Red Line, or Auto-Rx. They say that dislodging build-up or sludge too quickly may result in filters/screens/lines getting clogged up.

OTOH, in Subaru's that have had turbo oil line screens getting clogged, Subaru of America has a TSB that says to use one of the harsher engine flushes to clear the clog. They even have a Subaru branded engine flush.
http://www.scoobymods.com/showthread.php/tsb-02-110-10-engine-13825.html

On Subaru forums, there have been several posts about people getting the code that usually points to a turbo that has been starved of oil and has been remedied by just an oil change or by the engine flush (only read about the flush on a couple of examples).

YMMV!


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## albinorineo (Feb 25, 2012)

An engine flush can be as simple as changing the oil and dogging the car for 50 miles or so after its up to temp and then changing the oil again. It can also be a specific set of chemicals added to the oil before a change ranging from simple (Seafoam) to complex (BG services). The level of complexity is decided only by you because you know how well the car has been maintained. Complexity scales to effectiveness and price.

Even if it is just for the piece of mind, send off your oil to have it analyzed at your next change. They will tell you exactly how well your engine is doing.


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

albinorineo said:


> Even if it is just for the piece of mind, send off your oil to have it analyzed at your next change. They will tell you exactly how well your engine is doing.


Keep in mind that _most _typical uoa's, like Blackstone, do not tell you anything about any sludge in your engine. Something like Oil Analyzer's Inc. provides a bit more information such as oxidation and nitration that can be helpful in determining sludge. A Dyson Analysis also provides more data.

-Dennis


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## elomont (Aug 7, 2006)

I just did this on my ML320 with 297000 miles. I used 2 cans of Seafoam and drove it for about 300 miles with it in my oil then performed an oil change.

My 2 cents.


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

i use liqui moly proline engine flush right before i change the oil. for best results i add it when the engine is hot and leave it in for about 10 min. this helps the new oil to not get dirty as quickly and eliminate sludge. i find that most of their products do exactly as labeled and is not "snake oil" or a scam. flushing the gunk out is worth it imo


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## volksvagon... (Mar 12, 2013)

*oil pump replacement*

hey there can anyone here tell me if replacing an oil pump on a 2001 passat 1.8T it has a drive chain will that affect timing? it has like a small tensioner. i dropped the oilpan and the suction tube for the oil was completely filled with silicone crap since the previous owner was to cheap to spend on a gasket ..


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

*Seacrap!!*



elomont said:


> I just did this on my ML320 with 297000 miles. I used 2 cans of Seafoam and drove it for about 300 miles with it in my oil then performed an oil change.
> 
> My 2 cents.


Never, ever do this!! When I was younger and more naive, I believed seafoam and drove with a can in my oil. Results: rod knock and gold colored particles in my oil filter. Friend did the same, no rod knock, but he did get gold colored particles in the oil filter!  :banghead:

Seafoam is snake oil!! :bs: Not because of what it is, but because of the claims the company makes. It's really not much different from the cheaper stuff, and most cases, I found, less effective.

At least other companies who produce solvent and mineral oil based engine flushes have the decency tell you not to put load on the engine when using their product.

Fook seafoam!! They will never get another penny off of me or anyone I know. 

Side note, a can of carb cleaner sprayed into the intake right before the MAF cleared up the engine hesitation the same car had in 2 minutes, where as 20 minutes pouring seacrap into a vacuum line didn't do ****!! :banghead: Stick to the polish tune up, and just use carb cleaner.

For engine flushes, AutoRX has been king. I haven't used any of the other types of slow cleaners mentioned up top, so I can't comment on them. I still use solvent bases flushes as well, but only run them in the motor at idle for 10 minutes before draining.


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## njloco (Apr 2, 2009)

Being fairly new to high performance foreign engines you can take this with a grain of salt. What we use to do with American V8's or 6's is, when you do a regular oil change leave it a quart low and pour a whole quart of automatic transmission fluid in with the oil, drive the car for a few days or a week, drain the oil out and you have just performed a flush. 

Personally, I use Amsoil flush now.

Good luck.


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

I've used the Amsoil engine flush for over thirty years. It works well when used according to directions. I always install a new oil filter with the old oil before using the flush. Several years ago Amsoil went to a more benign, detergent based flush that's easier on seals & gaskets. I've used it several times on vehicles with unknown maintenance histories and it did reduce valve ticking on those engines.

TS


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## 88jettaguy (Mar 4, 2008)

Thanks for the info...I'll lookin into it the oil change service this summer.


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## Rofhnald (Jun 6, 2013)

They will tell you exactly how well your engine is doing.


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## shortybdub (Oct 14, 2011)

If you have been using a decent oil, changing on a regular basis, and don't do lots of short trips where the oil doesn't get up to temp, then a "flush" (in the traditional sense of aggressive solvent fluids) most likely isn't necessary or beneficial, and may do more harm than good. 

Now if you believe a light "clean-up" may be in order, then like Dennis stated, use a slow emulsifying product such as Auto-Rx. One critical area that this product really works on is the ring pack. No matter how often you change the oil, almost all I/C engines will build deposits in this area due to temp interface with the combustion chamber and the tight tolerances involved. Sticky rings don't allow the pistons/cylinders to seal properly allowing more blowby. This causes the vicious cycle of more deposits and fuel dilution and moisture ingression and ultimately sludging problems. You can use it on a maintenance basis at each oil change or do the clean/rinse cycles every 50K or so.

Check it out here: www.auto-rx.com

Also as Dennis mentioned, do a comprehensive oil analysis with a proper interpretation if you want to know whats really going on inside your engine. Blackstone is good for general wear metal trendings but won't give much insight into how your oil choice is performing overall with regards to internal cleanliness ie; sludge. I personally put alot of faith in a Terry Dyson analysis. He discovered that the my use of BG44K had a detrimental effect on the bearing overlays in my old Nissan X-Terra. 

Check his services out here: www,dyssonanalysis.com

May be a bit more than other UOAs, but you'll get what you pay for.


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## MPCare (Dec 23, 2019)

*Engine flush benefit MotorPower Care*

First do be sure which product do you use, engine flush is important for the engine and I recommend with every other oil change do engine flush but you have to use a good brand, I recommend a German Made bran MotorPower Care, it's certified by TUV in Germany you can buy it directly at MPCare.com 

Engine flush Benefits will clean the lower piston rings and restore the compression, which effect + the gas mileage, will dissolve and clean residues in the system, MotorPower Care engine flush designed from carbon minerals and not alcohol as other products in the market, what that means alcohol does not lubricate or dissolve it will wash sludge but not a great cleaner as well all alcohol products they say do not drive when using the product since it does not lubricate well, so it will not clean as great as we want it. 

Motor power care engine flush will lubricate 93% more when working in the system (Laboratory results) so it’s safe on the bearings and other components, it will dissolve sludge, residues and contamination which will not clog the filter screen while it's working and you can drive while it's in the system, you only required to keep it in the oil system on running engine for 25-30min then drain change oil and filter, as well MotorPower Care they provide a Nano oil additive that will create lubrication barrier inside the system for less wear and tear and longer engine span.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

And NONE of your snake oil is approved for ANY manufacturer. 

I would certainly not recommend any product that has not been approved by the manufacturer. Unless you do not care about your warranty. Once it's out of warranty have at it but your just wasting your money if you follow the factory recommendations. 

Save your money and buy more Christmas gifts for your family, friends, or even yourself.


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## kgw (May 1, 2008)

If your engine has VVT, variable valve timing, change your oil twice as often as oem recommends, AND using a good oil flush, should be standard practice...The VVT valves, intake and exhaust, get gummed up, and the screen that is supposed to help them out does likewise, if you adhere to "long life maintenance," an oxymoron by any other name!


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## MPCare (Dec 23, 2019)

*you are trying to missleading readers*

Butcher it looks so clear that you have no idea who we are or our brands and you are trying to misslead who is reading the thread, first we are approved by OEM by many companies and out main specialist we do private labels for many company as (Toyota, Subaru, Porsche, Hyundai...) second we are the only company in the market that our products certefied (TUV). third we have been more than 30 years in this industry and we are in 120 countries world wide we go under different brand names. I'm replying here just to let others be sure who we are but not interested in convincing you in any of our products or quality.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Which may be true but since this is a VW/Audi site, could you let us know if VW approves of it.

Sludge is caused by engines not being serviced properly or by the oils not meeting specs. As long as you service your engine properly, you do not need to waste money on products that do nothing. I have seen first hand products like the one you are pedaling and they do little to remove sludge. Maybe the experiences that I've seen are much more severe than anything you have seen. With the 40+ years in the industry, I doubt if you have seen half the stuff I have. I have also seen properly maintained engines last well over 300k without flushing like you recommend. 

I do not sell snake oil but I'm a full believer of following the factory recommendations when it comes to servicing your vehicle. I have NEVER seen ANY service manual that recommends to flush the engine every other oil service. If you have, please post it here. Especially if it's VW related. We could all learn something.

There is nothing wrong with making a living, I own a German auto repair shop and it keeps the food on the table. There are some that sell crack on the street corner, they keep food on the table too but most of us think they are stealing. I just think selling products that do nothing is not beneficial to the client. Especially the way you are selling it. Pedaling a product that fixes a problem you do not have is unethical. IF you have that problem then I'm all for it but I would suspect the problem is the result of wrong spec oils or exceeding intervals. 

Again, if there is any VW/Audi maintenance schedules that recommend flushing every other oil service, please post your results. 

It appears that the only product that you sell that is TUV approved is the Octane Booster. If there is more, please inform us. If there isn't anymore, then it's misleading that you are implying that your flushing product is TUV approved. You say your company has been in business for 30 years in business and you make private label products for manufacturers. Any proof to back up that claim? 

So, if you have a sludge problem, go ahead, your product may work, but if there is no current problem, then your wasting money on a product that will do you nothing.

"Chris Martin of Honda goes said, "Our engineers have conducted exhaustive tests to create specialized maintenance products and service standards that support the performance and longevity of Honda vehicles, and these standards don't include engine flushing." Engineers at GM said, "Engine oil flushes are not recommended. If oil is changed on schedule, you shouldn't have to flush the engine."
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/5-benefits-of-an-engine-flush.htm

"There are no car manufacturers that I know of that recommend engine flushes. Some manufacturers even go as far as to specifically state that engine flushes should not be performed and doing so will void the engine warranty. There are many cases and examples where engine flushes have caused severe engine damage and failure. The engine is without a doubt the most expensive component of your vehicle and its one component that I am not willing to gamble with."
https://blog.fcpeuro.com/engine-flush-the-damage-is-not-worth-it

The way I see it is the only manufacturer that recommends engine oil flushing are manufacturers that sell the products.


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## kgw (May 1, 2008)

"I do not sell snake oil but I'm a full believer of following the factory recommendations when it comes to servicing your vehicle. I have NEVER seen ANY service manual that recommends to flush the engine every other oil service. If you have, please post it here. Especially if it's VW related. We could all learn something."

Here is an issue that appears to be worsened by VW's "Long-Life Maintenance," timing chain issues that are likely due to gummed-up VVT valves and screens. 


https://www.clubgti.com/forums/inde...tch-or-do-they-the-truth-is-out-there.287374/

The author of this post spent long hours on the German geek forums, and found out this is an issue with the vr6 motors, made worse by the oxymoronic "Long-Life Maintenance." First thing the locals (Germans, that is) do when the rattling starts, or the VVT code is set, is do some *serious flushing regimes*. In the majority of cases, the issue is solved by the flushing regime. Which is followed by much more frequent oil change intervals.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

I'm ok using a flushing agent if you have an issue like that. There are times where something can get jammed up and trying a cleaner to free it up is prudent. I can see this product may be useful for something like this.


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## kgw (May 1, 2008)

I decided to try the engine flush method to revive the VVT system, before I took the 3.2 apart to change out the VVT valves. I posted about this earlier: a dubster from Ole Blighty trying to solve the same issue came across the method on the German forums. 
https://www.clubgti.com/forums/inde...tch-or-do-they-the-truth-is-out-there.287374/

The "Long-Life Maintenance" schedule appears to be too optimistic, the interval between oil changes needs to be much shorter than recommended. 


I picked up 2 5-quart jugs of Liquimoly 5-40 (I'm thinking that 5-30 would be better for cold weather), Liquimoly Pro-Flush, and went to it! After getting the engine up to normal operating temp, driving at highway and city speeds, I pulled into the driveway, poured the Pro-Flush into the crankcase, and let it idle (with me feathering the throttle) for 20 minutes. Then put the car up on jackstands and drained the oil, changed the filter, and filled it with the fresh Liquimoly.


I drove it for a while, and still had the herky-jerky idle. So I put a half-can of the Pro-Flush in and went for a short drive to get the engine temp up. The engine still did the herky-jerky idle. I parked it for a few days, leaving this mixture in the engine. I went out the other day, thinking of the crank position sensor, and to drain the engine again, and upon starting, the engine was idling perfectly! Took it for a warmup drive, drained and filled again with new oil/filter. 


So far, so good...If the idle changes again, I'll report back.


BTW, the 3.2l takes a while to come to operating temperature, 10-15 miles at varied speeds is about right in cool weather, less in warm weather.


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## MPCare (Dec 23, 2019)

*engine flush*

I attached few pictures & there is a youtube link as well that can show the engine flush benefit (not any engine flush), and you are a mechanic you should know that the way you drives it makes big difference Example: driving a 3000miles in traffic different than driving it on open roads (oil will get cooked faster). I'm not saying every engine flush in the market works and be carful from some of it but if you use the right one that will never harm the system and will keep engine components clean. 

to prove it if engine flush works: choose an Audi or VW with more than 50k miles on the odometer, take a compression test then do engine flush and fuel cleaner then take another compression test, (be sure to use good quality product as motorpower care) we do that on daily bases we know how effective that is. piston rings always get carbon and contamination between and that effects the compression, & less compression means less power, more gas consumption & more fumes in the system. 











https://ibb.co/9ZsFmGs
https://ibb.co/09sBLN3
https://ibb.co/w4xMvvG
https://ibb.co/xMKK6pN
https://ibb.co/H4z2Hf0

https://youtu.be/70B9M535mCg


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Within 30 seconds of you video you proved my point. Thank you.

IF you do not maintain your engine with the proper oils/filters, you may need to flush things out. Especially with the VANOS system. The bad thing about flushing is what else are you loosening up and what are all the particles doing as they float around. The best thing to do is to maintain your vehicle properly with the right stuff. I can show you a picture of the inside of an OM642 diesel engine with 300k+ miles with NO sludge build up. No carbon build up.

You can fool a lot of people on YouTube and here on Vortex but there are a LOT of issues with your compression test. You CANNOT use that type of tester to prove your point. If you watch your video, you can see the tester is not being sealed when you hold the tester to the spark plug hole. You are not pressing hard enough to keep the tester from popping up. Watch your video again, you can clearly see it popping up, causing the tester to give you low results. That is the reason why the rear cylinders are so low. You cannot press hard enough to keep the tester from leaking. You need to have the type of adapter that screws into the spark plug threads. So, you can easily manipulate the readings to prove your point.

Why did not not show how hot the engine was on the first compression test? I worked at two dealerships for a total of 30 years. One thing I learned a long time ago was, How do you know when a salesman is lying? When his lips are moving. 

If the flushing solution is as good as you say, why did you not show how clean the inside of the engine was after the flushing was done? Probably because you cannot tell what so ever that you did anything. 

If you are adding the fuel additive to the tank that is good for 20 gallons, why are you putting it in a tank that is empty?

If you believe you feel your product is as good as you say, you do not need to use your sales tactics to prove your point. Use facts. Fix your compression tester so that it is properly attached to the cylinder. Prove that the engine is fully warmed up. Show that the inside of the engine is cleaner. 

The problem is that if you follow my advice, you will probably not see the same results you did on your video.

Maybe I'm just some troll on the internet, but I've been here for longer than most. I suggest you stick with selling cars.


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

MPCare said:


> First do be sure which product do you use, engine flush is important for the engine and I recommend with every other oil change do engine flush but you have to use a good brand, I recommend a German Made bran MotorPower Care, it's certified by TUV in Germany you can buy it directly at MPCare.com
> 
> Engine flush Benefits will clean the lower piston rings and restore the compression, which effect + the gas mileage, will dissolve and clean residues in the system, MotorPower Care engine flush designed from carbon minerals and not alcohol as other products in the market, what that means alcohol does not lubricate or dissolve it will wash sludge but not a great cleaner as well all alcohol products they say do not drive when using the product since it does not lubricate well, so it will not clean as great as we want it.
> 
> Motor power care engine flush will lubricate 93% more when working in the system (Laboratory results) so it’s safe on the bearings and other components, it will dissolve sludge, residues and contamination which will not clog the filter screen while it's working and you can drive while it's in the system, you only required to keep it in the oil system on running engine for 25-30min then drain change oil and filter, as well MotorPower Care they provide a Nano oil additive that will create lubrication barrier inside the system for less wear and tear and longer engine span.


Holy carp, you're over here trying to sell your snake oil as well? I sure am glad we got rid of you over on the other forum.

The good news here is you're being given the same warm welcome other sites you've gotten on several other forums. Long story short, take your snake oil, pack it in your sleazy snake oil peddlers bag, and get out of town.


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