# Damp Carpet, Soaked Underlay, Water Leak - Wet Fox



## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

_Quote, originally posted by *voxwagen88* »_Stood beside it in the rain for hours.
Trying to sort out how the carpet is getting wet.

My original post in the "What did you do to your Fox today?" thread seemed to elicit a number of replies expressing similar issues.
As water leaking into the car seems to be a shared and common problem, I thought I would start a fresh thread and copy those comments to it.
Hopefully the Forum will be able to help dry out these leaky cars.
And be able to find it with a search.

_Quote, originally posted by *j-boogie253* »_
I've got the same problem








I fixed my trunk to where it doesn't leak at all, even fixed my sunroof so it doesn't leak either....then found my carpet was saturated on the driver side a month later








I can't seem to track it down, but it seems like it is coming from the corner by the windshield
Sometimes I can see little water droplets by the hood release handle
Not sure if it's the firewall or the windshield



_Quote, originally posted by *mr.ramsey* »_
x3 on the wet carpet. I think its leaking from the engine bay. The drains in the drip tray area must be leaking in somehow. Both my driver and passenger side kick panels get wet. The water seems to collect behind the drivers seat for me. Been thinking about drilling some drain holes.



_Quote, originally posted by *midnightsun* »_i just shop vac my back seat after it rains



_Quote, originally posted by *j-boogie253* »_
Same for me. I know my drip tray drain holes are clear and they work, but maybe there is something I can't see where they leak into the car as well








Oh well, I also have to do the post-rain shop vac too or else it'll start stinking










_Quote, originally posted by *lilgreydentwagen* »_
mine also does this. i'm thinking it's the seal around the windshield leaking because there is a little bit of rust right where the trim piece wraps around above the dash. it almost always gets wet right above the hood release when it rains. i'm going out now to put my new ish back seat and trim panels in










_Quote, originally posted by *efritsch* »_
Odds are the frame under the windshield is rotting away. Had that happen more than once.



_Quote, originally posted by *geniegate* »_
Mine does that too, more than "wet" I've had water sloshing around in there, but I've never seen the seats or the dashboard get wet. A total mystery.


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## j-boogie253 (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Damp Carpet, Soaked Underlay, Water Leak - Wet Fox (voxwagen88)*

I hope the frame under my windshield isn't rotting away...I'm hoping for a simpler solution to my problem
In hopes of finding the leak or leaks, (and just for the hell of it) I detailed even more of my engine bay and underside of my hood








Still have yet to discover the leak source


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Re: Damp Carpet, Soaked Underlay, Water Leak - Wet Fox (voxwagen88)*

A couple of weeks ago I noticed the carpet in the driver side rear passenger foot well was wet.
The windshield had been recently replaced so I hoped that it was leaking and the fix would be fast and simple. A glass man with 10 years experience shot water at the car for more than an hour and couldn't get it to leak. 
The good news was that the windshield didn't seem to be leaking. The bad news was that the leak was somewhere else.
While I was standing in the rain trying to figure out where the water was getting in, I noticed the rain tray plastic cover was pretty much Swiss cheese. Got a new one.
But was this where the water was getting in? 
I thought it best to dry out the car before testing it.
And I found a lot more water than I was expecting. 
The carpet seemed dry to the touch, but when I lifted it up looking for signs of rust, I found the felt underlay was waterlogged. Checking further, the underlay in the driver's foot well was also soaked.
And that's is where I am. Drying out.


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## j-boogie253 (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Damp Carpet, Soaked Underlay, Water Leak - Wet Fox (voxwagen88)*

^^^^x2^^^^
I pulled the carpet to find the underlay (cushioning) to be soaked
I've been lucky enough to catch some dry weather so I detailed the bay and again made sure those drip holes were working properly
Got it all dried out now and just waiting for another good down pour


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## adamjones128 (Jul 6, 2009)

*Re: Damp Carpet, Soaked Underlay, Water Leak - Wet Fox (j-boogie253)*

Do you drive your car when its raining out or just let it sit? I know that on my fox there is a small hole from the previous owner messing up the position of the jack stand on the passenger side. I can feel the underneath of the carpet with my finger poking through the hole, so I would guess water can spray up there when your driving at highway speeds on a rainy day....


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## doppelfaust (Aug 15, 2007)

*Re: Damp Carpet, Soaked Underlay, Water Leak - Wet Fox (j-boogie253)*


_Quote, originally posted by *j-boogie253* »_In hopes of finding the leak or leaks, (and just for the hell of it) I detailed even more of my engine bay and underside of my hood









You missed a spot.


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## JGWarner (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: Damp Carpet, Soaked Underlay, Water Leak - Wet Fox (voxwagen88)*

Where did you buy a new drip tray?


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## mike in SC (Apr 29, 2004)

My fox shares the same issue as many other fox owner's do.
The water getting into my car has to do with seal. It does not come through the bottom, but rather the top of the seal (looking at it from the inside).
Take off the bottom rubber trim at the edge of the dash to see if it comes from there.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Re: Damp Carpet, Soaked Underlay, Water Leak - Wet Fox (JGWarner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JGWarner* »_Where did you buy a new drip tray?

Dealership.
Had to stretch it to get it on. Fit is a bit frustrating, but it didn't snap during the install.
The drying out continues. Both rear passenger foot wells are now dry.
The driver's underlay is still more than damp.
For "fun" I checked on the passenger side, and compared to the driver side found only a little water. Just the outer half of the underlay was wet. The underside of the carpet was moist.
Took a peek at the vapour barriers in the doors and they seemed fine.
Getting there.

_Quote, originally posted by *mike in SC* »_
The water getting into my car has to do with seal. It does not come through the bottom, but rather the top of the seal (looking at it from the inside).
Take off the bottom rubber trim at the edge of the dash to see if it comes from there.



Do you mean you have water coming in at the top off your windshield?


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## mike in SC (Apr 29, 2004)

*Re: Damp Carpet, Soaked Underlay, Water Leak - Wet Fox (voxwagen88)*

Do you mean you have water coming in at the top off your windshield?


voxwagen88 said:


> Sorry, I didn't describe how I imagined it might look.
> The water comes in from the _bottom_ of the windshield. Somehow, someway the water seeps from behind the windshield and past the seal.
> I have also had to seal a few pinholes in the drip tray. This also created a problem with rust along the seam along the upper (but inside, above the fuse box) firewall.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

The Underlay is finally dry. 

The drains in the rain tray seem to be clear. A weighted string can pass from the rain tray to the bottom of the wheelhouse liner with out a problem. 

The vapour barriers in the doors do look a bit suspect. 
Some tears and cuts. There is a waterline on the back of the door cards. 
Off to get some new plastic.


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## efritsch (Aug 21, 2002)

The doors themselves should have drain holes in them though. I can't see that much water getting in to the carpet from the doors and you not noticing it. Did you actually check the under the underpad? To look at the floor itself? Also, are there any grommets in your firewall that are loose/missing/in crap shape? I would pull the carpet and under pad right up and check the floor pan itself. VW's have big grommets in the floors that tend to let water sit around the edge as the get old and the floor starts rotting. I had a Passat that had holes in each location where the grommets used to be. 

If you can't find water leaking from the top, than start checking the bottom. It could be wicking up water from underneath.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

Judging from the water/mold/mildew on the back of the passenger side door card and the water mark on the p side underlay, I think most of the water on the moist side is getting in past the vapour barrier. 
















The poorly fitting trim between the door and the glass must let a lot of water in. 
Some of that water must be splashing the vapour barrier and coming through. 
The drain in the door is clear, but it did look like little streams of water had been coming through the lower edge of the vapour barrier. 
Perhaps it is a little bit of water adding up over years that has soaked the carpet. 

Odd, I thought, to find grommets in the floor. They seem watertight. The paint is intact over them. 
Will be checking the firewall for missing grommets.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

Bleach wipes took care of the mildew on the door cards.
And the doors.
I cleaned off the old vapour barrier residue.
Made new barriers with the thickest plastic sheeting I could find at the building center.
Held in place with construction grade red Tuck Tape.

Tested the barriers by washing the car.
The passenger side stayed dry. The Driver's side failed.
Water found its way through 3 places on the lower edge where the tape overlapped.
Retaped it. Will test again.

Part of the failure may have been that 2 of the 3 clips holding the upper door trim in place had come unglued from the trim.
Not much was pressing the glass in place against the outer trim. Seemed quite a bit more water came in the D-side than the P-side.
Reglued fro the re-test.


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## mike in SC (Apr 29, 2004)

My fox has the same problem. It is not nearly as bad as before the windshield was repalced. However, I have some holes to take care of near the front sills.











I am having these holes welded shut, hopefully next week. 
If anyone here has the leaking problem too, as I expect them to have, take the time to check this area before it's too late.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

I redid the vapour barriers. Using a bit of Body Caulk to help control the the water.



















The Driver side let a drop or 2 through after 30 seconds of hosing down the window.
The Passenger side stayed dry.
Both were dry after 30 minutes of light rain.

I'm becoming convinced that the driver side is much harder to make water tight as the outer door trim at the bottom of the window fits so poorly.

Carpets are staying dry.
Must be getting closer to a fix.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Dry Doors. Wet Floor.*

The car has been out in the rain most of the week. Gotta love rain to live here.

The vapour barriers are holding. I'm confident enough in them to put the door cards back on.

The drip tray seems to be working as the middle of the car seems to be staying dry.

But I still have a puddle.
The driver side foot well is wet at the bottom of the inner fender liner (if that is what it is). The puddle is down from where the wiring harness starts to make its way to the back of the car.










There seemed to be water under the sound insulation. I lifted up the outer half. The floor was moist all the way back to the seat.










I could see how water might be getting to the rear passenger area. The channel in the floor board could be funneling water from the front to the rear.

I'm hoping the puddle was water that had been trapped under the sound insulation collected in one spot, but I doubt it.

I poured about 10 litres into the rain tray and none came inside.
The struggle continues. Let it rain.


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## JGWarner (Oct 22, 2009)

Your efforts and observations are an encouragement to us all!

I just discovered TWO new holes in my floorpan this week  one of these days I'll have to strip the interior and do some leak hunting and cutting/welding. Hopefully it can wait till next year. Up til now I haven't seen a drop of water, but obviously it's getting in somewhere.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

JGWarner said:


> Your efforts and observations are an encouragement to us all!


Hopefully at some point they will be useful as well.

After playing in the front for a bit, I checked under the rear sound insulation and it was more than moist there as well.

I wonder how putting 6 grommets in the floor aided manufacture of the car. All of mine seem to be sealed. The undercoating is intact around them.

Maybe this one will be the race car as I have now removed about 10 pounds of sound deadening from one side of the car. And another 10 pounds of water.

The rain has started again now.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Eureka!*

After 6 hours of drizzle, the floor was dry.
The rain picked up overnight and in the morning was a small puddle in exactly the same spot.








It seems that the water is wicking in along this zap strap holding the harness in place.
Hoping than plugging this hole will keep the water out.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Plugged?*

The hole letting the water in is quite tiny. A little water over a lot of years.








Wonder if this will slow it, stop it or move the leak somewhere else.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Weeping Continues*

That did nothing. 
I've built a wall of body caulk around the grommet where the water is pooling to see if I can tell if it is coming in from the grommet or somewhere along the path of the wiring harness. Or both. 

Off to search "Leak Detection".


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Black Bits*

I shot about half a can of spray powder around the foot well to see if it would give any clues as to where the water is coming from. 









The answer seems to be behind (or above ) those black bits. 
What ever they are. 

Am I going to have to pull the dash to find this leak?


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## doppelfaust (Aug 15, 2007)

voxwagen88 said:


> I shot about half a can of spray powder around the foot well to see if it would give any clues as to where the water is coming from.
> http://members.shaw.ca/icollect03/wetpowder.jpg
> 
> The answer seems to be behind (or above ) those black bits.
> ...


 Your persistence is really amazing! You're going to make some ground breaking discoveries for Foxers everywhere. Good luck with this, it certainly looks like you're going to have to pull the dash...


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

Well this is my plan. 
I'm going to try to block off water getting to the rain tray with some plastic. 
If water still gets in then I suspect the problem is around the windshield frame. 

If it stays dry, then the leak is in the drip tray. 
Maybe. 

Persistent like a Pit Bull.


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## doppelfaust (Aug 15, 2007)

voxwagen88 said:


> Persistent like a Pit Bull.


 And obedient and smart? 

Sounds like sound reasoning on your methodology for the next step. It certainly seems like the source could only be those two areas but I am sure I don't to remind you, we're dealing with a Fox... its probably coming from somewhere else entirely since unconventional is usually par for the course.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

With plastic over the cowl like this... 








The foot well stays dry. No water comes out under the black pieces the floor. 
But water does come down the side. 








It seems to come from way up there. 









From the windshield? 
Where does the Antenna cable feed through? 
From where the fender joins the unibody?


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

With the plastic like this, at least partially blocking off the antenna and the end of the fender I found only about 2 drops of water in the car. I was expecting a very large puddle after the apocalyptic rains last night. Driest so far. 










Perhaps the windshield really isn't leaking.


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## javiercba (May 29, 2010)

Hello guys. I could not read all the entire thread, but I used to have some problem with my Gacel (Fox) when it was outdoors on a rainy day. The driver side was full of water. 
In my case, the solution was really simple. I found the source of the water leak: just follow the wire that opens the engine cap (I don´t know the english word for that, but in french is Capot). Well. just follow that wire until it gets into the chassis. In that point, add some glue (for example, a glue for glasses or fishbowls). And that´s it. Solved. The water of the rain concentrates in that point, and it goes down throgh the small hole where the wire goes into the car.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*D'oh!*

That cable was the first thing I meant to plug up. It is certainly a low point in the rain tray. 

It moved down the the to do list as I found more and more water in the car and panic set in. 

In the days I've been studying this, I have not found any sign of water on the handle or the cable or the top of the carpet where I would have expected it to show up but, looking up under the dash, it is directly above one of the splash zones. 








It is plugged up now. Hoping your simple fix works so I can put the car back together and others won't have to pull their Foxes this far apart. I'd rather be driving. 
Thank you. 

Rain expected Wednesday. Updates to follow.


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## javiercba (May 29, 2010)

I really hope this works for you too. In my case, the handle was not wet, but water went down by the carpet, behind the fuse box and clutch pedal.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Partial Success*

I was hoping the floor would be dry after last nights downpour.
I do think it is drier. Plugging the hole the hood release cable passes through did help.

There was still a puddle...

But I now know where the water is getting in.


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## javiercba (May 29, 2010)

well, I´m happy to know that at least we are closer to the solution!


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## reddfoxx (Sep 18, 2005)

Good job so far. Keep at it. "Pit bull" or maybe "bull dog"- we called a guy at work that, for his unwillingness to give up. Good luck!


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*The Hole*

There is a crack in the seam where the firewall, driptray, fender and windshield frame all come together.
At the Driver's Side end of the dash.










It is impossible to take a picture of. It starts about 2 fingers lower than the crack that is easy to see here. It looks to be in the seam filler. Water weeps in. Runs down past the end of the dash, past the ground wires, past the hood release and collects on the floor.

I hope my situation is unique. I don't know if the crack is from accident damage or a manufacturing flaw or 20 years of spirited driving.

I don't know how I'm going to seal this. Hopefully the folks at one shop or another will have an idea that doesn't involve ripping the body work apart.

Waxoyl? Any ideas? I'm hoping it can be filled with material on the drip tray side.


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## javiercba (May 29, 2010)

what about fiberglass?


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Progress and Hope*

I took the car into my mechanic. On the phone he had seemed quite enthusiastic about filling the crack.
But when I got there and he was how close it was to the glass he sent me off to a windshield shop.
I appreciate one professional referring a problem to another when it is outside the comfort zone.

When the glass man saw where the leak was he said that the information was great but didn't give much insight on a fix. For a moment I feared I would be volleyed back and forth between the specialists each saying it was a job for the other. And then the caulking gun came out. He touched up the rough looking bit of bead at the corner of the windshield and then found what appeared to be a gap in the bead at the middle of the glass.

He worked away on the car for half an hour before he was satisfied with his patches. Then sent me on my way without charging me.

With a bit of luck the patches in the glass bead will stop the water from getting to the seam where it then finds my footwell.

Fingers crossed.


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## doppelfaust (Aug 15, 2007)

voxwagen88 said:


> I took the car into my mechanic. On the phone he had seemed quite enthusiastic about filling the crack.
> But when I got there and he was how close it was to the glass he sent me off to a windshield shop.
> I appreciate one professional referring a problem to another when it is outside the comfort zone.
> 
> ...


You really can't beat free work. Let us know how it goes, we're rooting for you!


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## reddfoxx (Sep 18, 2005)

Wow, sound like good guys- two true professionals who deserve recognition. :thumbup:


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## catinlove87 (Jun 30, 2009)

I would love to know if anyone has found any solid fixes for this, as I woke up this morning to about three inches of water on my entire passenger side floor. 
Yayyyy for mold growth.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Checklist*

Not sure if this is the solid fix you are looking for but here is a condensed version of the things I've replaced and repaired to keep liquids out.

Vapour Barriers - The plastic lining behind the door cards keeps a surprising amount of water out of the car.

Rain Tray Cowl Cover - Still available from the dealership. Keeps water from getting around the HVAC.

Windshield Seal - A good bead should keep water out.

Hood Release Cable - This passes through a low part of the drip tray. Water can get in around the cable.

Door Seals - Available from Brazil. Much tighter fitting than the 20 year old ones that were on the car.

I believe I had some water coming in from all of these.
Now I'm waiting for the car to dry out so I can take it to my body shop to tackle what I hope is the final place water has been coming in.








The seam sealer at the driver's end of the rain tray has cracked. Water is coming through the cracks.

YMMV.
I'm sure there are more solutions. And other leaks.
HTH.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Seam Sealer*

Summer has finally sort of arrived. Finally a day I'm off and it is not raining.
When I took the car into the body shop, they said they would cover the area with seam sealer.
And boy did they!










It won't be dry until Tuesday.
On Canada Day I will give it a Leak Test.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Record Rainfall*

It has been pretty dry in North Vancouver since Canada Day. When the rain did arrive last week, it came with a vengeance. 53 mm in 4 hours. Just over 2 inches.

I wasn't able to check on the car for a couple of days and when I did I was not thrilled by the results.

There was not a lot of water in the car. The bits that were wet were just moist. On the floor, the bottom outer piece of underlay was damp. And on the side of the foot well the felt was just moist at the very top and bottom.

The good news is a lot less water is getting in. But it is not staying bone dry. Perhaps the record setting rainfall was an unfair test.

I am suspicious of the seal where the fenders, door and a-pillar come together.
And I'm going to have a hard look behind the wiring loom in the left hand corner of the foot well.

It is all sprayed up with powder awaiting the next rain which was supposed to come tomorrow but may not come until Thursday. Hopefully there will be more clues to the source of the leak.

In the meantime I spent some time under the hood.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

time well spent under the hood, looks good. what are your weapons of choice for the under hood detail.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*CD2*

Mostly, I'm carrying on with the previous owner's recipe frequent baths with the same car wash soap as used on the outside. Followed up with Wax as You Dry. I put in a few extra hours with some brushes and q tips. That was followed with CD-2 Engine Detailer. It leaves a shiny protective coating that I quite like.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Wet Coast Drizzle*

After 6 hours of typical Pacific Southwest rain, the carpet is still dry.
Water is still getting in through the cowl. It is getting in at a seam about 2 fingers down from the top of the dash then running along the interior side of the cowl and then finding the carpets.
Much less water is coming in than before.

I have a theory. Which is mine. And the theory is this.

Water is running off the bottom of the windshield frame and then down the cowl to the drain.
As it is making its way to the drain it is collecting on a little shelf formed by the seams of the car. Here the water pools and makes its way through to the passenger compartment.










The little shelf is just off the end of the wiper mechanism in this photo. It looks like a crack in the bodywork is coming down to it. This all seems to be about an inch above where the body shop spread the seam filler in their first effort to stop the leak. So close.


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Cost of supplies*

I presented my water leak research to the fellows at the body shop. They fear there may be a problem in the windshield frame but we are all hoping the problem is a crack in the seam filler.
For just the cost of the materials they spread some more fill around. This time under the cowl and all the way up to the end of the crack.








I can't see the crack any more. Hopefully water won't find it.

(That has to be about the least interesting photo I have seen on the web for some time.)


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*So Far So Dry*

The car has been out in the rain showers for the last couple of days. 
So far there is no sign of water getting in. 

The test will come this weekend with more than an inch of rain predicted.


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## reddfoxx (Sep 18, 2005)

Let's hope that does it. 

Oh, and that's probably the first Anne Elk reference I've seen, at least on the Vortex. Thanks for a grin before I go to work


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

I hope I have hit the nail on the head.


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## reddfoxx (Sep 18, 2005)




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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

******


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Inside*

Well that didn't work. 
Retested the windshield by foaming up the seals with glass cleaner and shooting compressed air at the seal. No indication of a leak. 

Water was still able to find its way to the crack at the end of the dash. 

I was certain at this point that the dash and or the windshield would need to be pulled to get access the area that needed sealer. I just wasn't up for the expense. The car seemed like an albatross. 

One more trip to the body shop. They were willing to try filling the crack from inside without pulling the glass or the dash. With some purpose purchased bushes they tackled the job. 

Over the last couple of days we have had about 70 mm of rain. 
And the car is staying dry inside. That seems to be working.


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## 90quattrocoupe (Feb 7, 2002)

good deal


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## j-boogie253 (Nov 30, 2009)

As I stated in "What did you do to your Fox today?"...I finally did my vapor barriers for the doors

I used 19 gauge clear plastic (acquired from work) and the adhesive I used was called 3M Window Weld Ribbon Sealer, it's a roll of 3/8" bead similar to strip caulking but way better. You should apply it in a 1/8" bead (I got it a little thick in spots) and roll it flat once the vapor barrier is stuck to it in place.

I wanted to show what I learned and figured this thread was the perfect place to add the info

When I first installed the vapor barriers and tested them over the last two days, I learned something. I adhered the barrier too low on the bottom half

This is what they looked like at first


















They had a very small leak after a day of rain so I investigated and found this...









The area circled in red shows a "channel" and the green circles are drain holes. This "channel" (again highlighted in red) is where the vapor collects as it runs down the barrier and then it should drain out of the holes (circled in green). So in conclusion, to have a properly functioning barrier, you must adhere the barrier just below these holes and the channel

This is what it looked like after I applied new adhesive to the proper area (I rolled it on with an old VW window crank :laugh










Sorry for the crappy night time cell pic but hopefully you get the idea









Now I have no leaks in the doors and no more frost on the inside of the windshield when it gets below freezing at night


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## Chris-88Fox (Mar 23, 2012)

Over the past week ive been trying to water proof my new 88 fox.
Just wanted to say thanks to voxwagen88 for posting all your hard work. your thread has saved me many days of searching for leaks.

I dont have the money to get mine welded, ive just been using silicone...
There were a few cracks around where the hood cable came into the engine compartment so i filled em with silicone. I also covered where it feeds into the interior just for good measure.

Last two days have been nothing but rain and the driver side stayed dry  , only a couple drips ( ill have to use a lil more silicone when the sun comes back)
However the passenger side had a large puddle :facepalm: so now im waiting for dry days so i can try to patch that side up a lil beter.

And then the drying can continue.
After that ill try and do my vapour bariers, Thx for the tips j-boogie


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

Chris-88Fox said:


> Over the past week ive been trying to water proof my new 88 fox.
> Just wanted to say thanks to voxwagen88 for posting all your hard work. your thread has saved me many days of searching for leaks.
> 
> I dont have the money to get mine welded, ive just been using silicone...
> ...


This is a very good Post as I am having excess water entering in/on the drivers side floor, and to the back of the front seat. 
I found some rust had eaten it's way through an area right in front of the drip tray drain hole [very tender there]. I just happened to tap in that area and my finger(s) nearly fell through the metal. Couldn't really see it, but it was there.. Plugged that with silicone..The passenger side is dry. I had the windshield checked at Safe-T-Glass and one small leak was found in the upper right hand corner of the windshield. The opposite side of the leak. That was filled and presumed sealed..only other thing that could be done is replace the windshield according to Safe-T-Glass.

Next when I was replacing the clutch cable. I dropped the fuse box relay and noticed in the far upper left hand corner more rust had eaten a clear hole/slot right through there and filled that will more silicone. I was hoping that was the end of it. Then tonight after a fair amount of rain off and on all day I went out to the car and found the carpet behind the drivers seat was fairly soaked. I was not a happy camper...Strangely the front area was dry and that was where I found a puddle prior to the two holes I found of which I plugged with silicone.

I went directly to the car wash to use the vacuum at $2.50 per 3 minutes to pick up the excess water. I ended up pulling the matting/backing of the rear carpet out .. I could wring the water out of it as soaked as it was. I was in disbelief of what I was seeing.

I have never had this issue with my prior two Fox wagons., a 1988/89 ...But, this 1990 has had more weird issues with it and it has at least 50K miles less than the other two. The exterior body and under body on this 1990 is above average..I'll even go as far as to say for a car this age it is near perfection.

So, I'd like any further solutions/thoughts or comments on this problem...I didn't really follow/recognize some of the photos displayed with this post?!

I haven't messed with the doors at all yet...I believe they are open and draining normally along with the drip tray drain holes.

Thanks again in advance for all your help and support.

Sincerely, Raff****


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

dinoboom said:


> This is a very good Post as I am having excess water entering in/on the drivers side floor, and to the back of the front seat.
> I found some rust had eaten it's way through an area right in front of the drip tray drain hole [very tender there]. I just happened to tap in that area and my finger(s) nearly fell through the metal. Couldn't really see it, but it was there.. Plugged that with silicone..The passenger side is dry. I had the windshield checked at Safe-T-Glass and one small leak was found in the upper right hand corner of the windshield. The opposite side of the leak. That was filled and presumed sealed..only other thing that could be done is replace the windshield according to Safe-T-Glass.
> 
> Next when I was replacing the clutch cable. I dropped the fuse box relay and noticed in the far upper left hand corner more rust had eaten a clear hole/slot right through there and filled that will more silicone. I was hoping that was the end of it. Then tonight after a fair amount of rain off and on all day I went out to the car and found the carpet behind the drivers seat was fairly soaked. I was not a happy camper...Strangely the front area was dry and that was where I found a puddle prior to the two holes I found of which I plugged with silicone.
> ...


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

dinoboom said:


> So, I'd like any further solutions/thoughts or comments on this problem...I didn't really follow/recognize some of the photos displayed with this post?!
> 
> I haven't messed with the doors at all yet...I believe they are open and draining normally along with the drip tray drain holes.


I would give the vapour barrier a close inspection. I was surprised by the amount of water that made it into the car before I messed with them, and how little came in after.


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

Thanks so very much for the reply!!!

In the order of importance and likelihood..what is your latest list of things to do?

Your suggesting the vapor barrier as the first place to check and repair? I assume your FOX is still not 100% water tight?!

In the screenshot with the red arrows pointing into that corner there is a fair amount of rust there..certainly looks "suspect" to me. I have no idea how long this has been going on?

Did you replace the seals around the doors/door frames? If so? where can I find them?

What did you use for a sealant for the vapor barrier? 

The water has worked it's way underneath the matting>you can see where a square piece lifted up and broke in the last screenshot.

Sorry about all the questions, but I need to make sure I know what areas and processes your using to treat those areas. In some of the photos it's difficult for me anyway to tell exactly where/what your showing?

I'll look forward to your response and any clarity you may be able to bring to this issue.

Sincerely, Ralph


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## bluetoes591 (Apr 3, 2009)

If the vapour barriers in your car havn't been replaced in the past 25 years, they leak. Or not, but they probably leak at least somewhat. If there are faint water marks on your door cards, then they definitely leak.

Door rubber is only available for 4 doors in North America. For 2 door and trunk seals you have to send away to Brazil. http://www.brazilshopping.com or wait for Alain to head back down there (cheaper shipping).


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

Thanks again...

I will look at these seals.

You didn't mention what materials this requires (suggested).

Type of plastic and thickness, glue or sealant?

How about the "Hit List" you've developed in order of importance for this problem?

You've reduced the leakage, but have not eliminated it completely is my impression.

Thank you in advance for your care, cooperation and attention to this important sensitive matter.

My Best,
Ralph


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

voxwagen88 said:


> I would give the vapour barrier a close inspection. I was surprised by the amount of water that made it into the car before I messed with them, and how little came in after.


*"Assuming that Fox wagon(s) in those links are yours...then your in a very very desirable position and one that few Fox owners ever will realize in their lifetime."
*
Waiting to hear what you recommend [materials] to make these repairs with the "vapour barrier" and any other matters of concern that would help resolve this issue once and for all.
Thanks again for your care, cooperation and attention. I am certain many will benefit and appreciate ALL your hard work. 

I'm still baffled after driving two older Fox wagons with far less mileage on them over five hundred thousand miles and never having this "water leak." Amazing!
:banghead:


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

j-boogie253 said:


> I hope the frame under my windshield isn't rotting away...I'm hoping for a simpler solution to my problem
> In hopes of finding the leak or leaks, (and just for the hell of it) I detailed even more of my engine bay and underside of my hood
> 
> 
> ...


Looks GREAT! Thanks for sharing...:thumbup:Now let's solve this leak issue:screwy:


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

I was going to suggest you take a search through vapor barrier posts in the Golf II forum as those folks are expert at the vapors.

But then I did a bit of hunting there myself... and I think I have a strategy for the doors in my blue fox....

Follow the pattern of body caulking in Post # 16. Maybe with a thick caulking or Window Weld...
Double the amount around the lowest drains in j-boogies post #55...

And try to find / use the Factory Tape and a New To Me Factory Vapour Barrier that is more of a foam plastic than a baggie.
And when I say New, it looks like it was new in 2003....

At least that is my latest strategy....

The Red Wagon in this thread is mine. And it does not leak.


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

*Damp Carpet, Soaked Underlay, Water Leak - Wet Fox Your Message*

Numero Uno! I owe you an apology...after reading ALL of the Posts I did see the various materials you used or recommended.

Pleeze excuse the terminology i use as I'm not sure what all these various part/areas are commonly known as...still learning.

I did not realize this water and moisture issue was so pervasive! Call it luck or whatever, but neither of my 1988/89 Fox wagons ever showed this kind of a problem.

Whats wrong with using silicone chaulking vs the 3M tape or this "rocker molding tape?" 

From the looks of the insides of your panels mine have a fraction of the mold, etc...they weren't even damp. I know you generally get more rain then we do here in Vermont.

I ran a water hose onto the window with the door open and the water came flowing out freely at the bottom. However when I closed the door and repeated it, there was water getting inside with what looked like in/through/onto the rubber molding>to the sides and then the floor. (I have the carpet lifted up in that area.)

When I replaced the clutch cable and lowered the fuse/relay box way up in the left corner I noticed a nice rust hole that likely worked hand and hand with the leak at the drain port. Which was also amply filled with silicone...That area up under the dash and fuse box is not an easy area to get into IMHO..so that you can really see what your dealing with!

One other point I'd like to mention and also curious about is the actual drain hole itself..Is that one solid pipe/port that transports the water to the outside of the car? I'm wondering if cracks develop in that pipe/port /tube that allows water to get into the inside of the car as well?

When I ran the hose so that the water would find it's way to the drain..I did see drip or so of water. It wasn't a flood, but none the less a disappointment as I had just plugged/filled what I believed the be the main cause of water getting into the front seat/floor area.

After this last rain we had after I had applied all the fixes mentioned above there didn't seem to be any water getting in like it had. Meaning I had a good inch of water on the front floor board and it had spread apparently from the front to the rear via the floor channels?!? However, the next rain left a small puddle in the back of the drivers side seat while the front seemed relatively dry.

I believe I should replace the rubber molding on the passengers side door.

I don't see me getting into welding things. That would have to be outsourced..it's nothing I could ever attempt.

Hope this has done some good!

Your thoughts and suggestions much appreciated. Nice Fox by the way!!! and I take the blue ones belong to you or someone else? Great Information and photos.

Sincerely, Ralph


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

dinoboom said:


> Numero Uno! I owe you an apology...after reading ALL of the Posts I did see the various materials you used or recommended.
> 
> Pleeze excuse the terminology i use as I'm not sure what all these various part/areas are commonly known as...still learning.
> 
> ...


*
How do you get a response from those folks in BRAZIL in order to buy parts that VW stopped making many moons ago??? Are there any other possible sources in the USA for these seal/door moldings?
*


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## bluetoes591 (Apr 3, 2009)

Well, this is what the packaging says my door seals will fit. 



You'd want to do some research to make sure what they call a Chevette or whatever is the same thing in Brazil, but you might be able to find something that fits by shopping for a different car. Assuming of course that they're long enough.


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

bluetoes591 said:


> Well, this is what the packaging says my door seals will fit.
> 
> 
> 
> You'd want to do some research to make sure what they call a Chevette or whatever is the same thing in Brazil, but you might be able to find something that fits by shopping for a different car. Assuming of course that they're long enough.


So this is a part you bought from Brazil? how do you know it fits? I have emailed them 3 times and I haven't received a single response yet. (curious) Is the shipping reasonable? Difficult to believe there would be that much difference in molding for the wagons or sedans?! I need to find some molding...What you say?


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## bluetoes591 (Apr 3, 2009)

dinoboom said:


> So this is a part you bought from Brazil? how do you know it fits? I have emailed them 3 times and I haven't received a single response yet. (curious) Is the shipping reasonable? Difficult to believe there would be that much difference in molding for the wagons or sedans?! I need to find some molding...What you say?


Alain bought them for me last time he was in Brazil and I have 100% confidence that they're the right thing. For one thing Alain bought them, he has also shipped these seals to lots of people, and the packaging clearly states that they fit Gol (Fox hatchback), Voyage (Fox), Parati (Fox wagon) and Saveiro (Fox pickup).

Shipping from Brazil is ridiculous both in terms of cost and how long it takes to get here. But, you will not find them anywhere else.


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

bluetoes591 said:


> Alain bought them for me last time he was in Brazil and I have 100% confidence that they're the right thing. For one thing Alain bought them, he has also shipped these seals to lots of people, and the packaging clearly states that they fit Gol (Fox hatchback), Voyage (Fox), Parati (Fox wagon) and Saveiro (Fox pickup).
> 
> Shipping from Brazil is ridiculous both in terms of cost and how long it takes to get here. But, you will not find them anywhere else.


Thanks! Alain sold me one of the 4 speed shifter bushing kits. Worked perfectly!

I assume your going to use those seals?! I'm not sure what I will do in the meantime? I haven't heard back from this place. http://www.brazilshopping.com/store/foxsealstrim.html

I'll need to keep the Fox covered at least partially whenever it rains. I need to get it dry as well to be able to make some other repairs that stem from these leakage.

Any further thoughts or suggestions greatly appreciated.

Sincerely, Ralph


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

Dear Friends, Here are some updated photos after some rain last night.

The door panel had been removed and the "vapor barrier" was worked on and made whole>no leaks per your pictures/instructions.

If I pour water directly into the drain port/cowl I do see some drops of water coming from up under the dash>fuse/relay panel and onto the carpet in that corner. (it's not a flood, but water is still getting in from somewhere?!

As stated earlier when I dropped the fuse/relay panel., a hole had rusted through in the far upper left hand corner.."careful considerable time" was spent plugging that area with ample amounts of Permatex clear silicone adhesive/sealant #66BR. Apparently that wasn't good enough or I missed another area not visible?!

Also there was a hole found just before the drain port/cowl and was sealed with ample amounts of silicone.. 

Question? is the drain port/cowl a tube of sorts that directs the water out and down to the bottom of the car onto the ground? Right at the very top of the drain I noticed what I believed to be a crack. Due to limited view and reach I could only treat the very top of this apparent crack with silicone. I considered using a type of rubberized undercoat spray to spray into that drain port in hopes in might fill this apparent crack?!

As you can see in one of the photos there was a fair amount of water found behind the drivers side seat. If the carpet had been in place it would of been soaked.
*Interestingly* the carpet in front of the drivers side seat was dry. Prior to filling that hole near the drain port/cowl the front drivers side carpet had about an inch of water on the floor..which also apparently(?) found its way to the back of the seat as well

The Fox was parked on a very slight upgrade it wasn't perfectly flat. When I first checked the Fox after it had rained a little while it was still dry. You can see what I found at 10 AM today EDT.

I'm very discouraged! I would feel a little better if I could get the rubber seals/molding replaced. I may add one more photo? The majority of water was on the side opposite the rocker panel area/side...

Thanks again! I need help as most of us with this annoying mysterious problem have experienced. Never seen this in either of my older FOX wagons that had 100K more miles on them along with Vermont winters. 

The outside and inside of this newest FOX is nearly perfect., it had won some awards at a VW show in MD shortly before I bought it...

Humbly, Ralph


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## bluetoes591 (Apr 3, 2009)

Just to make sure I'm pondering the right variables, the car was facing uphill for the latest photos?


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

*These did not work..the molding/seals "NEED" to be replaced*

1 - I did find another suspect spot right at the cowl drain hole., which I promptly filled with silicone.

2 - Another thing I'm trying is removing the molding and moving it so the seam that now meets at the middle of the bottom of the door rocker panel area (which I'm told is unusual), will meet midway up the front part of the door. In effect changing the rubber molding placement by rotation. As your likely aware the molding is different in different places. So, rotating them will not likely work! Maybe if the seals were brand new?!?

***If there is anyone out there that has new seals/molding or even if they know the older molding they have is working and are willing to sell them I would be interested** *

Off to buy a car cover!


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

Hello!

Does anyone know if Golfs seals can be used for VW Fox wagons? (see photos) Are they compatible/be made to fit in some fairly minor ways?

*PLEASE NOTE:*
Out of the major or more obvious problem areas in solving this leakage issue. What are they in order of importance? which one is most likely to least likely cause this mysterious leakage issue? I have not seen anyone mention Windshields being a major contributor?!

Thank You,
Ralph

The VW part # for the Fox 2 door (wagon) door seal is 305.831.721.9 



Golf seal on top, Fox seal on bottom. The total length of the Golf seal is 150 inches.


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## mike in SC (Apr 29, 2004)

Is there any rust in the cowl? My wagon had some hiding that was letting some, but not all, water onto the floors.


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

mike in SC said:


> Is there any rust in the cowl? My wagon had some hiding that was letting some, but not all, water onto the floors.


Mike I assume?!
The cowl port areas in the right and left corners up against the firewall. Where I did find some rust right before the drain port. This was filled with silicone and touched up again and again and then I sprayed the corners with black rubberized undercoat. There was some water getting in there somehow that is why I sprayed it with undercoat.

I dropped the fuse/relay box again and used a water hose with lite pressure pointing right into the corners/cowls. Depending on where I directed the water determined how much water was dripping in. Or perhaps when the water hose was placed differently it changed the force and flow of where the water ultimately flowed into and down through the cowls port existing the car.

The water was dripping off the bracket that holds the fuse/relay in place. And there was some rust at the base of the bracket.,which might(?) be where the water is finding it's way in??? It was impossible to see where it was originating from!

I bought a car cover and water proofed it.. covered the Fox but I left the windows slightly cracked open by mistake. We had torrential rain that night and the next morning there was a little water on the floor board drivers side behind the seat. It seems like the water may be working it's way back there in one of the tunnels in the floor boards?!? what do I know!? I might add the car is parked on a very very slight upgrade which could help move the water back?! Interestingly, the carpet in front was not wet as it had been in the past.

The areas that I sprayed with undercoat was totally dry.

At this moment I'm leaning on the water getting in around the doors and associated seals. Which I strongly feel need replacement! I have NOT been able to find the seals anywhere yet. There must be a "universal" seal that would work...if you look at Post #68/69 you'll notice that seal from Brazil via Alain fits a variety of cars. I tried rotating the seals and it didn't make any difference.

Whats next? 

Sincerely, Ralph


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

dinoboom said:


> Mike I assume?!
> The cowl port areas in the right and left corners up against the firewall. Where I did find some rust right before the drain port. This was filled with silicone and touched up again and again and then I sprayed the corners with black rubberized undercoat. There was some water getting in there somehow that is why I sprayed it with undercoat.
> 
> I dropped the fuse/relay box again and used a water hose with lite pressure pointing right into the corners/cowls. Depending on where I directed the water determined how much water was dripping in. Or perhaps when the water hose was placed differently it changed the force and flow of where the water ultimately flowed into and down through the cowls port existing the car.
> ...


*Made a gruesome discovery today...I'm going to need to pull both front seats out and remove all the front carpet - steam clean it. The entire drivers side floor board is soaked, filled with a mixture of what looks like mud and mold/under padding. Rust as well has found it's way into the rocker panel..and although it looks fine outside., it is mostly rusted. *


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

*FOX aficionados*

Hope this finds you ALL well.

If I do not find the solution to this problem(s) soon or I can't find the parts required to fix this problem. Your going to see two Fox Wagon For Sale...a 1989 and a 1990.

Sad to say as I have been satisfied up until this more recent purchase of a so called "cream-puff" that I paid a hefty price to have shipped to me many miles arriving in Vermont.

Oh! and by the way does anyone have any suggestions on "How To" remove all the carpets...I have "the bible" of Foxes., a Bentley Manual which does give instructions on seat removal.

Thank You! and Have a pleasant weekend!

Best, R

Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2015 2:26 pm
Subject: Volkswagen Customer CARE 150464962


Dear Ralph,
The Fox Wagon was a slick little car, and there weren’t a lot of years it was made for the states. I can understand wanting to keep it in good repair, so I’m sorry to hear you’re having trouble finding the seals you need to fix the leak from the doors.
Normally, our dealerships are the best resource for parts information. They have extensive resources for locating and ordering components for our drivers, but, due to the age of your vehicle, they may not be able to assist you. While I’d still encourage you to start by checking with your local dealers, there are some third party resources you may be able to fall back on.
The following resources are not affiliated with Volkswagen. However, other drivers have had success locating parts for their vehicles by working with
http://www.thesamba.com/vw 
https://www.westcoastmetric.com/index.php 
http://www.uneedapart.com 
http://www.hemmings.com
I apologize I wasn’t able to be of more direct assistance in this matter. Please know I do want to help our drivers whenever I can, so if you have any future questions you are more than welcome to email me again.
Best,


Jacob M. 

Here's another note from Hemmings: _All dead ends so far..._

Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2015 11:34 am
Subject: RE: VW FOX Parts 1990 Wagon/hmnmail

The doors for the Fox 2-door station wagons and sedans were the same from 1987-’93. www.parts.vw.com show this part number still available for both left and right side on the ’92 Foxes at about $55.00 per rubber. 4-door rubbers would work be too short, although you might be able to patch two together to make one long enough for a two-door.
There are also many universal weatherstrips you can buy in bulk from Steele Rubber, Soff Seal, Karr Rubber or Metro Moulded that would work. You just need to match the cross section of the material to your original one.
Mid America also shows the 4-door rubbers, which you might be able to lengthen by patching two together with super glue.


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

Dear Friends,
Thank YOU!

Somewhere between the Top of the Cowl (drain hole) in the engine compartment to where it exits behind the mudflaps there was a rusted area. 
I tried to patch it with silicone from the inside by dropping the fuse panel, but I understand silicone will eventually cause the rust to increase and weakens any remaining metal in that area.

What is the best way to get to this Cowl port and the tunnel it runs through? I assume you'd have to remove the fender to get enough access to patch any hole(s) properly!!?

The water is coming in somewhere from the Top down in to the drivers side far left corner. I do not believe it has any connection to the floorboards.

This water leak issue has robbed me for about two years of enjoyment of driving "this" 1990 Fox wagon.

Your suggestions are much appreciated.

Again Thank You...

Sincerely,
Raphael


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## bluetoes591 (Apr 3, 2009)

Removing the fender probably won't get you anywhere useful. Depends where you issue is exactly. This is the sort of things that could involve pulling the dash and/or fender and cutting a access hole(s).

IMG_20161022_161150_zpsfkppjtkb


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

Thank YOU! 
Awesome photo!!!

For some reason I'm not getting notified at all and I have the _Instantly, using email_ notification box checked and selected the same using the drop down arrow. 

I can tell you that when I dropped the Fuse panel there was what appeared to be a rust hole I'm guessing about mid-way from the cowl port to the floorboards. 
I did fill that in the best I could with silicone, but I'm not confident it sealed it all in good??!

From your photo I can't really see the path (tunnel?) that I believe the water is traveling in from the cowl downward. With the fender off I thought it would be more obvious.
Would it be possible for you to tell me or place some form of indicator like an arrow showing roughly where the water goes once it enters the cowl?

Wondering now if its behind the black fender seal that appears in the bottom right of your picture in the back of the wheel well so to speak. I've never pulled that off before. Would that be something fairly easy to do or do you feel it would show more clearly the area(s) I suspect the water is getting in? For all I know it could be coming in thru the windshield, but I doubt it.

With all the information we've posted and shared on here. What would be the best "pecking order" to check for this leak at this point? Windshield? door seals? etc...

I deeply appreciate your time and willingness to help sort this out. I'm not thrilled about removing fenders as there are seals/sealants/alignments involved with that I would imagine. What did you mean by this? _cutting a access hole(s)._ Cut a hole so you can get to the hole you can't reach?:what:

Look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Have great evening ahead...

Sincerely, Raphael




ello Milo!
Hope all is well...
before I forget.
You sent me this link/picture of the shifter and the bushing associated with it. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1946/43554429380_dd7304a8eb_c.jpg
Do you know where I can find one of these Bushings? Or perhaps it would have to be the entire shift rod? Hope not...When that bushings gets worn the shift pattern gets very sloppy and it doesn't like it should.
I'm planning ahead cause the last one I was fortunate and one was fabricated from a Mercedes. Forgive me if I mentioned this before..But, it would be great to get something in the pipeline.
The other matter is finding a Complete standard exhaust for the wagons. You might be able to find the middle pipe, muffler..but the rear muffler with tail pipe attached as far as I know is not being made by anyone.
Which could mean some very expensive custom muffler work.

Please advise as best you able.

Many Thanks!!!

Sincerely,
Ralph


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

Hello!
Thought I'd put this out there.

To help narrow down water getting in through the windshield. 

Get some 2" wide clear packing tape and place it enough to overlap the gasket where the gasket meets the paint around the windshield. This will overlap the rest of the edge of the windshield and gasket opposite where you just placed the tape. 

You only need to tape the sides and top of the windshield...Water can't run uphill was what I was told by a body repair shop who has on board a person that worked for SafeLiteGlass over 25 years. The shop itself is considered in this area one of thee best shops. They have been in business over 45 years.
I'm also friends with this family and went to school with two of the siblings.

Hope this has done some good before you risk taking the windshield out and possibly cracking it only to find out it wasn't windshield related.


Sincerely, Raphael


http://jasminautobody.com/


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

Hallo Mike.

You said _"Is there any rust in the cowl? My wagon had some hiding that was letting some, but not all, water onto the floors."_
What do you mean by **hiding?** and what can be or what did you do about it?

I suspect a rust hole is somewhere between the top of where the cowl drain hole is and where it exits down at the mudflap. I don't know how you can get access to this area?

I was considering finding some type of thin flexible tubing and running it down the entire length of the cowl drain port in the engine compartment to where it exits at the mudflap. Either placing some type of a flange at the top where the cowl hole or tunnel is located and sealing that in place. This would surely eliminate any water getting in or leaking or seeping to the inside and down onto the floorboards.

In my attempts to get a good look at this area what I did was lower the entire fuse panel very carefully which allows you to at least see that area and if there are rust holes from as close to the top as possible downward.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this point, but I can't see another way to get a clear view of the cowls tunnel (any meaningful portion of it. And even if you can locate the rust how can you repair it? That is why I suggested running some tubing down through there.

I plan to get some good Seam Sealer and apply it into and up under that entire area in the upper most part of the cowl as well as where the hood hinges hide on the drivers side. Not sure it will solve this? But I've sprayed that area several times and with the limited tools I have I can't get up into that area. That is likely where a body shop would help as they could spray the area(s) rather than brush it on and hope for the best.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.


Best, Raphael


These suggestions came from Kerensky and I thought were worth sharing.
Leaks in a Fox floorboard usually come from one of two sources:
Clogged cowl drains. (90%) This is the areas at the back corners of the engine compartment that always fills up with leaves and crap. The drains in those areas clog and then the water backs up into the floorboard when it rains hard.
Windshield gasket. (8%) Much harder to do anything about, so it is good that it's relatively rare. The fix is probably just removing and reinstalling the windshield. 
Everything else (2%)


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

Plugging what hole where? up under the fuse panel?
I'd love to see a photo of whats behind the plastic liner inside the wheel well on the drivers side...


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## Zenith451 (Nov 8, 2014)

voxwagen88 said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *voxwagen88* »_Stood beside it in the rain for hours.
> Trying to sort out how the carpet is getting wet.
> 
> My original post in the "What did you do to your Fox today?" thread seemed to elicit a number of replies expressing similar issues.
> ...


you may want to check the antenna lead in and the caulking/seals around the coax.


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

Zenith451 said:


> you may want to check the antenna lead in and the caulking/seals around the coax.



I thought it was leaking between the top of the Cowl and where it drains out of the mudflap. Nope! drain hole was completely plugged by a mechanic thinking it was where the water was getting down into the floorboards.
I had the windshield removed by a professional. Cleaned and sanded all the residual rust anywhere it was found. Painted all around the windshield and reseated and resealed it. He assured me it was NOT getting in through windshield.."It getting in somewhere else." unquote.
Going to the extremes... I placed a tarp about a foot back on the roof and draped the rest down the windshield covering the entire hood and placed a RAIN-X cover over that and it stayed dry. Obviously not the solution. There is a seam set inside the door where the door hinges are that runs from the bottom of the windshield (a pillar) to the bottom of the car/door compartment. It's not easy to see it or get anything inside there to seal it.. If(?) in fact thats where the water could be seeping in? Thought removing the liner inside the wheel well might expose some rust or holes, etc?!? Or getting underneath the dash remove the 2 screws holding the Fuse panel in place lower that and also the hood latch in order to get a better view of things up in there. Of coarse you got to deal with the carpet and padding whether its wet or dry at some point. Another suggestion was to place a very bright light in the engine compartment at night or wherever its dark and see if any light is getting inside indicating a leak. Haven't done that either yet.
I'm sad to say this. But if there is one reason to sell this car it would be due to this issue of water getting into the floor panels and wherever else you find it. The perils of owning a 30 year old car. Look forward to some help or suggestions. Its one of two things. Rust or cracks/leaking Seams or a combination.
Thank You!


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## dinoboom (Apr 8, 2006)

dinoboom said:


> I thought it was leaking between the top of the Cowl and where it drains out of the mudflap. Nope! drain hole was completely plugged by a mechanic thinking it was where the water was getting down into the floorboards.
> I had the windshield removed by a professional. Cleaned and sanded all the residual rust anywhere it was found. Painted all around the windshield and reseated and resealed it. He assured me it was NOT getting in through windshield.."It getting in somewhere else." unquote.
> Going to the extremes... I placed a tarp about a foot back on the roof and draped the rest down the windshield covering the entire hood and placed a RAIN-X cover over that and it stayed dry. Obviously not the solution. There is a seam set inside the door where the door hinges are that runs from the bottom of the windshield (a pillar) to the bottom of the car/door compartment. It's not easy to see it or get anything inside there to seal it.. If(?) in fact thats where the water could be seeping in? Thought removing the liner inside the wheel well might expose some rust or holes, etc?!? Or getting underneath the dash remove the 2 screws holding the Fuse panel in place lower that and also the hood latch in order to get a better view of things up in there. Of coarse you got to deal with the carpet and padding whether its wet or dry at some point. Another suggestion was to place a very bright light in the engine compartment at night or wherever its dark and see if any light is getting inside indicating a leak. Haven't done that either yet.
> I'm sad to say this. But if there is one reason to sell this car it would be due to this issue of water getting into the floor panels and wherever else you find it. The perils of owning a 30 year old car. Look forward to some help or suggestions. Its one of two things. Rust or cracks/leaking Seams or a combination.
> Thank You!


Where are all the replies I wonder to this ongoing issue?


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