# Phaeton would not start



## kart (Jun 20, 2012)

Hello all, 

I bought a 2006 3.2 V6 Phaeton couple of weeks back. It has been going good. Did about 2000K before a service from the dealer, just basic service engine fluid change and filters change. After taking delivery from the dealer drove for couple of days, no problems. 

Went out for a meeting, came back it refused to start, took the keys out started it, it started, drove for the next meeting. Came back from the meeting and tried starting, it would not start after that. Tried some suggestions on the net, like removing all the fuses and reconnect. After doing so I could hear a click from the front for once that was it. Nothing happened after that no clicks no start. The click sounded more like a relay contacts closing. 

The VW service guy came with his diagnostic tool, checked the system and told it was a key issue as reported by the tool, so he requested for the spare key, the spare key (which was with the original owner) was delivered to me today, the technician at the service, started the car successfully once, after that it would not start again. The previous owner says he did not have any issues like this whatsoever. 

Now the dealer is requesting for a password to reset the system, I dont have it nor does the previous owner. What might be the issue? 

And other problem I have is that the infotainment system switches itself off and resarts sometimes. I'm not sure if it is connected.


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## Panther427 (May 20, 2012)

Possible its just your starting battery. There are two battery's. A comfort and starter battery. If you try to start and it doesnt work, and you turn the key back to off and then try again. It will link the two battery's together as a backup. If that works its most likely your battery.


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## phaetonlover61 (Feb 11, 2011)

*phaeton would not start*

I have this problem as well. After dining out one evening, my wife and I returned to the car only to discover it would not start. I thought it was the battery although the lights and computer seem to work fine. Later I was able to jump start the car but once I turn it off, it will not start. Now thru this post, I learn that ther are two batteries. WHERE IS THE STARTING BATTERY LOCATED? :banghead:


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

If you look in the glove box there should be a user manual which details things like that. 

Harry


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi kart,phaetonlover61, 

Welcome to the forum... There is a lot of info here about the batteries and related things, some of it listed in the Table of Contents (the TOC sticky on the first page of the Phaeton forum), but you might have to dig deep, and when the car won't start there probably isn't time for much digging! 

Most Phaetons (except some 3.2 V6's) have 2 batteries in the boot/trunk. The left hand one looking forwards from the rear runs the controllers and the engine etc, the right hand one only runs the engine cranking at start. 

The alternator charges the left hand one, a built-in boost charger powered from the left hand one charges the right hand one. So the right hand one is almost always fully charged, but the left hand one will definitely give many weird car problems as it ages, probably between 5 and 7 years. Check the date stamp on the -ve terminal and replace it with the exact correct model battery if you get electrical gremlins (boot lid, locks, interior lights, windows etc). 

If the engine won't crank due to either battery being flat, you can parallel them both to start the car by turning the key fully right, then fully left, then fully right again. 

The right hand battery rarely stops working, since it is maintained just right by the onboard charger. The left hand one goes flat if the car is parked up, eg for sale. In this case the car won't start because the electronics is not getting any power. 

Watch out for water under the left front carpet, it can make the security (KESSY) controller wet and refuse to start the car or recognise the keys. 

Let us know how you get on. 

Regards, 
Chris


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## kart (Jun 20, 2012)

*This one doesn't have 2 batteries.*

This Phaeton does not have two batteries, reading other posts, the other battery must be located on the right side of the boot, opposite to the battery on the left. There is a hollowed out storage space with fish net in that spot. 

As suggested, I have asked the service station to look at the KESSY, my car is right hand drive, not sure where the KESSY would be located, I have asked them to look beneath both from carpet for water ingress. It did rain the day before the drama happened. 

Will keep updated on the developments.


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## kart (Jun 20, 2012)

Forgot to mention this, the battery is completely charged, shows 13v in the battery meter in the instrument cluster and 12.6v in the multimeter.


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

You have the one battery version of the Phaeton. You said you measured 12.6 Volt with your multimeter on your battery poles. Is that with ignition & engine off? Then it is perfect. 
You may want to see what voltage drop you get when you switch on power consumers, like head lights, ignition on and then the rear window heater. Voltage shouldn't drop much. For example, if you are measuring 12 Volts or above with these consumers on, your battery is OK. 

Willem


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## kart (Jun 20, 2012)

No problem is KESSY. There wasn't any water ingress. Back to square one. 

The battery was 12.6 while engine was off. Did not test with stuff on.


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Dear Kart - not clear from the posts if you are 100% certain that there is no starter battery. All Phaetons have the cubby hole with fishnet - the starter battery, if there is one, is behind it. 

Sorry if you have absolutely ascertained this already.. but just from reading the posts.. I did wonder. I know that some petrol V6s don't have starter batteries - but I thought some did. 

Best of luck. 

Mike


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

kart said:


> This Phaeton does not have two batteries, reading other posts, the other battery must be located on the right side of the boot, opposite to the battery on the left. There is a hollowed out storage space with fish net in that spot.
> 
> As suggested, I have asked the service station to look at the KESSY, my car is right hand drive, not sure where the KESSY would be located, I have asked them to look beneath both from carpet for water ingress. It did rain the day before the drama happened.
> 
> Will keep updated on the developments.


 They all have the hollowed out storage space with the elasticated cargo net. The starter battery is behind that panel. 

Edit: Posted before reading Mike's reply!


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

kart said:


> No problem is KESSY. There wasn't any water ingress. Back to square one.
> 
> The battery was 12.6 while engine was off. Did not test with stuff on.


 When you say "No problem is KESSY" do you mean that it is the KESSY or it isn't? The presence or not of water does not mean that the KESSY cannot fail if all is bone dry - I'm about to replace my KESSY and there is no moisture at all! The problems do sound suspiciously KESSY like.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Also... a reading of 13V on the instrument panel voltmeter when the engine is running is unusually low... the controller generally makes it read 14V if it's happy (regardless of the actual voltage, plus or minus a bit...).


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## kart (Jun 20, 2012)

Please read as No problem in KESSY. It was a typo. No the engine was off when volt meter read 13v. During engine operation volt meter reads 14v.


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

And if, just if, there is a starter battery, the voltmeter is not reading it... it's reading the other battery... I think! 

M


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## kart (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi invisiblewave, ok I will have to check if there is a starter battery. But I seriously doubt there is problem with it, because the car started with the spare key for once then quit. 

And by the way the dealer dropped me an offer today, reckon they are bringing in the new Phaeton so the old model (still new cars) are on clearence sale. Price is about half of what you would normally pay for a Phaeton and you get a Passat free with that.  Why would he have to say that after I bought this one?


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Price is about half of what you would normally pay for a Phaeton and you get a Passat free with that


 ???


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

kart said:


> Hi invisiblewave, ok I will have to check if there is a starter battery. But I seriously doubt there is problem with it, because the car started with the spare key for once then quit.
> 
> And by the way the dealer dropped me an offer today, reckon they are bringing in the new Phaeton so the old model (still new cars) are on clearence sale. Price is about half of what you would normally pay for a Phaeton and you get a Passat free with that.  Why would he have to say that after I bought this one?


 And you believed him?? I have some cheap snake oil I can ship over to you for a very reasonable price! 

If you spend some time reading various threads on the forum, you'll find that all kinds of electronic gremlins can be caused by the batteries, even if they appear to be putting out the correct current. Did you try the emergency start procedure that is detailed in previous posts?


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Kart, 

Would you be located in England per chance ? 

P.


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## kart (Jun 20, 2012)

Sorry everyone, there is a second battery and it is dead. The service station just confirmed that it has 2 batteries. No I haven't tried the emergency start procedure. I will try that tomorrow. 

No mate, not living in the UK.


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## kart (Jun 20, 2012)

By any chance the Phaeton starter system has a low voltage protection? As per the service station the car starts once a day. My theory is that, the starter battery is charged just for one start every night, because the battery is old, it can't hold enough power for consequetive starts. 

Due to low voltage protection, it will not even turn once, is my theory possible?


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

The starter battery is charged by a DC-DC converter in the J367 Battery Monitoring Controller, using energy supplied from the alternator and LH battery. This controller measures the starter battery voltage. 

If the RH starter battery takes charge for too long, the charger is disabled to prevent the dying starter battery from being continuously charged to no effect. 

You need to do a scan to read out the faults, then an analysis to figure out which of them are caused by the power supply dropping and can be cleared and ignored, and which ones are actually causing the problem. 

It's unusual (but not impossible) to have complete failure of the starter battery. Alternatively, I would guess it's also likely that the J367 module isn't charging it properly. 

Regards, 
Chris


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## kart (Jun 20, 2012)

Paximus, you nailed it, changed the battery and the charger. It is fixed for now.....


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## IMBILL (Jan 14, 2008)

*Phaeton won't start*

OK so I've looked through the site for some help. I drive my Phaeton as a regular driver. 2004 V8 66k. I parked in the garage and came back 30 minutes later to a dead car. All the accessories work and the only thing wrong is the car won't start. I've checked the starter battery and it has a great charge. I've tried the reverse key start to use the accessory battery and still nothing. I have also tried using the spare key to no avail. ANY HELP APPRECIATED. I am stuck so all input is welcome.
Thanks, Bill


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Bill,

If you can switch on the ignition (even though the engine won't crank) then a scan will help, providing you or someone nearby has a VCDS cable. Look for fault reports from the KESSY controller, either about its own health or concerning the function of something else such as a relay.

In any case, lift the LH front footwell carpet edge and check for wetness around the KESSY module.

If it's dry, you might have the switching transistor failure that has a relatively straightforward repair, described in other threads that I can't find at this moment.

Good luck,
Chris


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## IMBILL (Jan 14, 2008)

*Phaeton won't start*

Thanks for the reply. I checked the floor and it's bone dry. I don't have a vag com and am not sure where i would be able to get one. I will look for the switching transistor you referred to. It seems as if the key is not being read although i tried both keys.


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## IMBILL (Jan 14, 2008)

*Phaeton won't start*

Ok so let me add to this mystery. When the key is turned on there is s high pitched sound in the engine compartment located near the firewall. I can't figure out exactly where its coming from. Ugh


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## Panther427 (May 20, 2012)

IMBILL said:


> Ok so let me add to this mystery. When the key is turned on there is s high pitched sound in the engine compartment located near the firewall. I can't figure out exactly where its coming from. Ugh


It could be possible that your starter has broke. Solenoid maybe worn out. To me if your sure your battery's are good, and the keys operate everything else normally then I'd look at the starter. Need two people one to try to start the car and one to measure voltage at starter. See if its getting power. If its gettin power then it would lead you to possible worm out starter


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

I've owned some old cars, for which the common remedy of this occasional non-starting issue was to use a hammer and hit the starter motor on the right spot, just once. This released the stuck "bendix" and problem was solved. Don't know if this is an option to solve your problem though...

When you lift the bonnet, there is a little black plate with a + and - sign. Then lift the red cap on the plus and connect your DMM between the threaded stud (which may still have the original plastic protection cap) and the vertical pole underneath the removed red protection cap. It should read above 13 Volts under normal circumstances, as it is always under float charge and never loaded except when the starter is engaged. Let someone else start the engine and see what this voltage is doing. When it drops slightly, but stays above 12 Volts, there is something wrong with this solenoid and your starter needs service.
Yet another theory is that there is a loose contact at your starter motor and the high pitch tone you are hearing is caused by sparking/ionisation. I.e. similar to electric welding. You should be able to smell this when this is the case.

Willem


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## IMBILL (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestion. I will try that first thing in the morning and will let you know. I am open to try anything and everything.


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## Mirel_nVR (Apr 29, 2021)

kart said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I bought a 2006 3.2 V6 Phaeton couple of weeks back. It has been going good. Did about 2000K before a service from the dealer, just basic service engine fluid change and filters change. After taking delivery from the dealer drove for couple of days, no problems.
> 
> ...


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## Mirel_nVR (Apr 29, 2021)

WillemBal said:


> I've owned some old cars, for which the common remedy of this occasional non-starting issue was to use a hammer and hit the starter motor on the right spot, just once. This released the stuck "bendix" and problem was solved. Don't know if this is an option to solve your problem though...
> 
> When you lift the bonnet, there is a little black plate with a + and - sign. Then lift the red cap on the plus and connect your DMM between the threaded stud (which may still have the original plastic protection cap) and the vertical pole underneath the removed red protection cap. It should read above 13 Volts under normal circumstances, as it is always under float charge and never loaded except when the starter is engaged. Let someone else start the engine and see what this voltage is doing. When it drops slightly, but stays above 12 Volts, there is something wrong with this solenoid and your starter needs service.
> Yet another theory is that there is a loose contact at your starter motor and the high pitch tone you are hearing is caused by sparking/ionisation. I.e. similar to electric welding. You should be able to smell this when this is the case.
> ...


I


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## Mirel_nVR (Apr 29, 2021)

kart said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I bought a 2006 3.2 V6 Phaeton couple of weeks back. It has been going good. Did about 2000K before a service from the dealer, just basic service engine fluid change and filters change. After taking delivery from the dealer drove for couple of days, no problems.
> 
> ...





kart said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I bought a 2006 3.2 V6 Phaeton couple of weeks back. It has been going good. Did about 2000K before a service from the dealer, just basic service engine fluid change and filters change. After taking delivery from the dealer drove for couple of days, no problems.
> 
> ...


Did you consider the starter motor? The brushes inside tend to create problems that don’t appear on on any scan. Shouldn’t be a very expensive fix.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Mirel_nVR said:


> Did you consider the starter motor? The brushes inside tend to create problems that don’t appear on on any scan. Shouldn’t be a very expensive fix.


Welcome to the forum. 

He hasn't posted anything since this thread almost 9 years ago. He's probably sold it by now.


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