# Some doubts about the Beetle!



## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Hi gals and guys,

By now I'm a happy MKV Owner, but I'm thinking on buying a VW Beetle Turbo 2012!

I have managed to have a pretty nice setup in my MKV, and I want to ask you (since I haven't found any info about it anywhere) if the following auto-parts that I have installed in my MKV would fit on a Beetle:

Brembo's Front BBK I assume that it would fit pretty fine
Front and rear H&R Sway Bars
Bilstein's PSS10

I have tried checking out in some web-stores like ECS Tuning and Tire Rack, and tried to find out if the parts listed above have the same part number listed for both cars... But there's really no information about aftermarket products (of this kind) listed for the VW Beetle 2012.

In advance thank you so much for all your help and support!

Best regards,

Beto


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Bump!


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## BeetleCurious (Jul 18, 2011)

I'm starting to have some doubts about the Beetle myself. Why isn't there a trailer hitch available? If the Beetle is based on the jetta frame why can't we put a jetta hitch on it. Also what's with those seats not laying flat? Is that really German engineering?
At least they should fold up against the front seats like in a PT. :banghead:
That may not be your specific question but it fits the thread title very well.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

BeetleCurious said:


> I'm starting to have some doubts about the Beetle myself. Why isn't there a trailer hitch available? If the Beetle is based on the jetta frame why can't we put a jetta hitch on it. Also what's with those seats not laying flat? Is that really German engineering?
> At least they should fold up against the front seats like in a PT. :banghead:
> That may not be your specific question but it fits the thread title very well.


Thanks for telling me this and you're absolutely right!

Best regards,

Beto


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## I'mbringingstaticback (Nov 22, 2011)

New new beetle is osm, if I didn't have an 8 month old or they released one in a configuration like an RX8 that had a smaller door that opened the opposite way I'd own one.


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## JR Martinez (Feb 25, 2003)

BETOGLI said:


> Hi gals and guys,
> 
> By now I'm a happy MKV Owner, but I'm thinking on buying a VW Beetle Turbo 2012!
> 
> ...


Beto: aftermarket parts will selll eventually, is not 2012 yet, 2012 Bettle is on 2011 Jetta frame, Love mine. you will too.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

JR Martinez said:


> Beto: aftermarket parts will selll eventually, is not 2012 yet, 2012 Bettle is on 2011 Jetta frame, Love mine. you will too.


Thanks man! I highly appreciate your help! And as you said, it isn't 2012 yet but in the case of the parts that are shared with the VW Jetta MKVI, I think that the Guys at this aftermarket businesses should be selling these parts right away! IMO

Thanks again!

Beto


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## Stealth_TDI (Nov 12, 2003)

Hello,



BeetleCurious said:


> I'm starting to have some doubts about the Beetle myself. Why isn't there a trailer hitch available? If the Beetle is based on the jetta frame why can't we put a jetta hitch on it.


The Beetle, Jetta, Golf/GTI, and Passat all have different wheelbases. The Beetle has the shortest and possibly doesn't have sufficient real estate between the rear suspension and the bumper rebar, the place needed to fit a hitch. The hitch manufacturers may need to create a hitch specifically for the Beetle.

Scott


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## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

I just had a chance to crawl around a 2012 today and I liked it for the most part, but I have some serious bitches about some of the design elements. I don't mind the view out from the drivers seat, but the windshield feels really scrunched down compared to my 2004 beetle and what's up with the big wide expanse of hood? (a minor element, I know, and easily gotten used to)
Once I popped the hood, I had a serious complaint..........A PROP ROD??!!........ARE YOU KIDDING ME? And no insulation under the hood.....totally cheaped out, looked completely bare and VERY low rent. If I wanted a cheapo prop rod, I'd buy a Hyundai........absolutely ridiculous and not the quality content I expect from a VW.

Next on my list......door handle keyhole.......great, they put it under a little plastic cover to hide it. All fine and dandy until you want to start your car and let it run for 20 minutes at -40 c. You need to lock your car for this crap kiddies....unless you live on a farm 40 miles out of town......The salesman says, "well you can pop the cover off and lock the car" ....wonderful....do that 4 or 5 times at -40 and you'll be buying a new cover every few weeks for your handle when the old one keeps cracking and breaking:banghead:........WTH are they thinking?


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## IHC (Aug 15, 2011)

No Insulation under the hood? Worried about your motor getting cold? Go buy a KIA.


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## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

IHC said:


> No Insulation under the hood? Worried about your motor getting cold? Go buy a KIA.


Actually, it's called "sound deadening" so you don't get all the engine racket in your cockpit ......like a Kia

Apparently you're new to the quality car concept......:beer:


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## UTE (Nov 12, 2011)

Well, I can tell you boys the 2.0TSI motor purrs like the proverbial kitten in the front of my Beetle. If the hood is open a distinct ticking sound can be heard - which goes away as soon as the hood is closed.

Bill


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## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

UTE said:


> Well, I can tell you boys the 2.0TSI motor purrs like the proverbial kitten in the front of my Beetle. If the hood is open a distinct ticking sound can be heard - which goes away as soon as the hood is closed.
> 
> Bill


The turbo has sound deadening under the hood, doesn't it? Both models I looked at were 2.5 Cdn launch editions
I do love that 2.0TSI motor.....


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## UTE (Nov 12, 2011)

speedtek40 said:


> The turbo has sound deadening under the hood, doesn't it?


Nope. There is insulation on the firewall but none on the underside of the hood.

Bill


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## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

UTE said:


> Nope. There is insulation on the firewall but none on the underside of the hood.
> 
> Bill


So strange that they cheaped on that.....I really don't get why they went back to a prop rod either:screwy:
Details, details, details.........:thumbup:


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## UTE (Nov 12, 2011)

speedtek40 said:


> So strange that they cheaped on that...


Well, my point is the insulation is unnecessary with the 2.0TSI engine. The 2.5 is considered a rougher and noisier engine in comparison. That's not just something I've noticed - but something also noted by car reviewers in major automotive publications.

Bill


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## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

UTE said:


> Well, my point is the insulation is unnecessary with the 2.0TSI engine. The 2.5 is considered a rougher and noisier engine in comparison. That's not just something I've noticed - but something also noted by car reviewers in major automotive publications.
> 
> Bill


I can definitely agree on that.....the 2.5 can be a very harsh sounding engine if you're revving it out.


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## Old Bug Man (Nov 5, 2011)

Okay, I posted this on the other thread, but it seems more relevant to this one. The GTI certainly has the edge here, but it looks like the GTI just has more power, which is puzzling because the engines are supposedly the same and I thought the Beetle was supposed to be a bit lighter. Is it all aerodynamics? Keep in mind this is Mexico (presumably) and the specs might be a little different. This gives me gauge envy, and I can't understand a word, but thought you might find it interesting. I enjoyed watching them buzz around the track. The Beetle is certainly adequate for my purposes.






Would anyone care to translate?


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## UTE (Nov 12, 2011)

Old Bug Man said:


> The GTI certainly has the edge here, but it looks like the GTI just has more power, which is puzzling because the engines are supposedly the same and I thought the Beetle was supposed to be a bit lighter. Is it all aerodynamics?


I think it is due to aerodynamics.

According to Cars.com:

GTI 2-door
Drag coefficient .32
0-60 mph 7.39 seconds 
1/4 mile 15.52 seconds at 88.79 mph 
Lateral acceleration .90 g 
Slalom 62 mph

Beetle LE 2.0TSI/DSG
Drag coefficient .37
0-60 mph 7.75 seconds 
1/4 mile 15.70 seconds at 87.43 mph 
Lateral acceleration .92 g 
Slalom 62 mph 

The telling results here are the comparative slalom speeds. Though the GTI has faster straight-line times (due to better aerodynamics), the Beetle LE TSI/DSG pulls higher G's. This results in a tie with the GTI in the slalom. So, it's reasonable to suggest the differences to be negligible in a real world race (unless it's simply about top speed).

Bill


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

The test drive takes place at a Circuit at Spain. They used the same tires for both cars so the comparison is closer. The nice looking girl is a Professional Car Racer. As well to make even this comparison the girl driving the VW Golf 35 Anniversary didn't disconnect the electronic assistance since this can't be done in the VW Beetle.

The guy says that the VW Golf GTI 35 Anniversary is faster, but that the test drive will be pretty nice and fun!

As a side note: The 35th Anniversary comes with exactly the same engine and turbo as the VW Golf R MKVI (2.0T FSI), but without the 4Motion and with the same braking system as the regular VW Golf GTI MKVI.

The guy says that since the electronic assistance can't be disconnected when they get into the corners, the turbo stops blowing as a safety measure, and that this is happening for both cars. He says that even the 35 Anniversary is faster he kept pretty close to it during the straight trams.

He says that he's pretty amazed with the chassis and the suspension response of the VW Beetle, that it's a lot better that he thought.

These are the best lap times that they have for the following VW cars that they have tested so far:

Sirocco R 1:54:90 (it comes factory without 4Motion)
Golf R 1:55:30
Golf GTI 1:57:80
Beetle Turbo 1:59:30
Polo GTI 2:00:30

At last, they will give the results of the best lap time for the VW GTI 35th Anniversary until December the 2nd, 2011.


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## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

Well, that makes more sense........I was going to say that the video looked like the GTI was pushing at least an extra 50hp to be pulling away that fast. If it uses the same motor as the R that's Around 65 (if I'm not mistaken)....yeah, that's a pretty big deficit in a straight line...lol:thumbup:


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## Old Bug Man (Nov 5, 2011)

I thought it might be Spain since they were all bundled up, but figured it just gets cold at the high altitude around Mexico City, not far from Puebla. Spain makes much more sense. Thank you for the excellent translation. Both look like fun cars. For my own needs 200 hp should be about right in a car of that weight. I would be more tempted to alter the suspension for better cornering, but think it's probable wise to keep that stock too given California's crumbling infrastructure. Does anyone know what tires the Turbos are coming with? I've ordered mine with 18" rims.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Old Bug Man said:


> I thought it might be Spain since they were all bundled up, but figured it just gets cold at the high altitude around Mexico City, not far from Puebla. Spain makes much more sense. Thank you for the excellent translation. Both look like fun cars. For my own needs 200 hp should be about right in a car of that weight. I would be more tempted to alter the suspension for better cornering, but think it's probable wise to keep that stock too given California's crumbling infrastructure. Does anyone know what tires the Turbos are coming with? I've ordered mine with 18" rims.


Thanks man! I did my best effort!
... And congrats for your Beetle!


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## Old Bug Man (Nov 5, 2011)

It's good to know that the man's apparent disappointment wasn't with the car but with his own driving skills against the professional. It's amusing how he struggles with it and it's so effortless for her. I like the way she delicately taps the paddle shifter at 6,000+ rpm while he's groaning and huffing and puffing. Still, he did a fair job considering. Makes me wonder if our American versions will have the same suspension tuning--not a mushy version tuned for strip mall parking lots.


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## UTE (Nov 12, 2011)

Old Bug Man said:


> Makes me wonder if our American versions will have the same suspension tuning--not a mushy version tuned for strip mall parking lots.


The "Sport Suspension" on the Turbo is something I noticed right away. It's firm but not punishing with less body roll in corners. I'd describe it as having a BMW feel to it wherein the road can be felt and the driver experiences a good connection to it.

Bill


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

UTE said:


> The "Sport Suspension" on the Turbo is something I noticed right away. It's firm but not punishing with less body roll in corners. I'd describe it as having a BMW feel to it wherein the road can be felt and the driver experiences a good connection to it.
> 
> Bill


Do you think the replacement of power steering fluid with electro-mechanical steering allows a
better connection between driver and the road ?


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## UTE (Nov 12, 2011)

ridgemanron said:


> Do you think the replacement of power steering fluid with electro-mechanical steering allows a better connection between driver and the road ?


Definitely. Other factors to consider - the Turbo's (GTI) rear suspension combined with the Beetle LE's 19" ContiProContact tires. Add in the already noted firmer Sport suspension and you're pulling .92 G's in the LE Beetle as measured on the skid pad. No stock GTI pulls that (...yet - the GTI-R is coming). But, the Beetle R will likely pull .93 to .94 G's.

Bill


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## JR Martinez (Feb 25, 2003)

UTE said:


> Nope. There is insulation on the firewall but none on the underside of the hood
> 
> 
> Shaka from Ohio posted pic of his Turbo with under hood insulation
> Shaka's Public Album


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## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

JR Martinez said:


> UTE said:
> 
> 
> > Nope. There is insulation on the firewall but none on the underside of the hood
> ...


Curiouser and curiouser :sly:.....weird

Let's hope someone comes out with aftermarket shocks for the hood (we know they will eventually):beer:


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## UTE (Nov 12, 2011)

Maybe my hood is Jewish.

Bill


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

I assume Shaka took non OEM material and trimmed it to fit for a nice custom look.
Something else I thought of was, if there was any need for a turbo heat shield in the
Beetle? I remember there being an array of aftermarket ones for the Mini's Turbo.
For awhile, they had a heck of a time with hood scoops melting. Supposedly the 
expensive 'optional carbon fiber one could take the heat and a lot of Mini drivers 
had them replace the standard ones that came with the car.


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

I've looked under the hoods on more than 1 turbo as well as 2.5L Beetles at the dealers. Turbos have noise insulation and 2.5L don't.


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## Old Bug Man (Nov 5, 2011)

UTE said:


> Maybe my hood is Jewish.
> 
> Bill


No foreskin?


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## Bef (Nov 20, 2005)

ridgemanron said:


> I assume Shaka took non OEM material and trimmed it to fit for a nice custom look.


Nope, the insulation was there when we bought the car.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Bef said:


> Nope, the insulation was there when we bought the car.


Perhaps Bill's dealer absconded with his hood insulation and will be offering it on the black 
market (E-bay) to 2.5 owners in the near future.


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## UTE (Nov 12, 2011)

Well, looking on the bright side - my Beetle weighs 2 lbs less and is .01 seconds faster in the slalom.

Bill


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

UTE said:


> Well, looking on the bright side - my Beetle weighs 2 lbs less and is .01 seconds faster in the slalom.
> 
> Bill


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

ridgemanron said:


> Do you think the replacement of power steering fluid with electro-mechanical steering allows a better connection between driver and the road ?





UTE said:


> Definitely. Other factors to consider - the Turbo's (GTI) rear suspension combined with the Beetle LE's 19" ContiProContact tires. Add in the already noted firmer Sport suspension and you're pulling .92 G's in the LE Beetle as measured on the skid pad. No stock GTI pulls that (...yet - the GTI-R is coming). But, the Beetle R will likely pull .93 to .94 G's.
> 
> Bill


De-linking the PS pump from the engine eliminates drag and increases the engine's efficiency. For the same objective some cars now have electric water-pump. 

Electro-mechanical PS by itself has nothing to do with steering feel or connection between the driver and road. Steering characteristic is dependent on steering ratio, boost, alignment & geometry (caster, toe, camber), suspension design and the overall size & weight of the vehicle. 

Take the VW CC for example, which also has the electro-mechanical set-up. But it's much lighter to turn and feels numb compared to the GTI. Take it a couple notches higher and drive the Mini Cooper (especially the 1st Generation), the quickness of its steering will have you grinning from ear-to-ear.


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## UTE (Nov 12, 2011)

I continue to be impressed by the information shared here.

Bill


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## Old Bug Man (Nov 5, 2011)

What's the noticeable difference with the electro-mechanical steering? Is it just that the power-assist part is no longer hydraulic but uses some sort of solenoid or however it's done? Does the car respond differently, and if so, how?


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## ljmattox (Nov 27, 2011)

Old Bug Man said:


> What's the noticeable difference with the electro-mechanical steering? Is it just that the power-assist part is no longer hydraulic but uses some sort of solenoid or however it's done? Does the car respond differently, and if so, how?


The difference is the hydraulic pump is driven by an electric motor, not from the engine directly (via a belt, typically). Equivalent cars, with / without, shouldn't drive noticably differently. As stated above, it's done to gain some efficiency; steady state driving (say, west Texas on I-10) shouldn't require much hydraulic steering assist, and with electro-, there isn't any. A belt-driven pump is still siphoning *some* energy in this scenario; that's what they're trying to recapture by driving the pump electrically.


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## Old Bug Man (Nov 5, 2011)

But my understanding is that this car has no hydraulics at all in the steering--no pump driven by a belt or electric motor. There is no fluid. In any case, the mechanical part of the steering is very much the same (rack & pinion I presume), this only concerns the "power" part (assist) of the power steering, so at speed the car would behave as if it had no power steering, and wouldn't draw any power from the motor because there isn't a pump churning away constantly. So I won't notice any difference in the cars handling characteristics. Is this right?


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## plex03 (Nov 10, 2011)

Old Bug Man said:


> But my understanding is that this car has no hydraulics at all in the steering--no pump driven by a belt or electric motor. There is no fluid. In any case, the mechanical part of the steering is very much the same (rack & pinion I presume), this only concerns the "power" part (assist) of the power steering, so at speed the car would behave as if it had no power steering, and wouldn't draw any power from the motor because there isn't a pump churning away constantly. So I won't notice any difference in the cars handling characteristics. Is this right?


Have you test driven one? When I did I loved the feel of the steering and I had no idea about the electronic steering at the time. 

I drove it through city streets, some more rural back roads and on the interstate all at various speeds and in all cases loved the feel.


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

Old Bug Man said:


> But my understanding is that this car has no hydraulics at all in the steering--no pump driven by a belt or electric motor. There is no fluid. In any case, the mechanical part of the steering is very much the same (rack & pinion I presume), this only concerns the "power" part (assist) of the power steering, so at speed the car would behave as if it had no power steering, and wouldn't draw any power from the motor because there isn't a pump churning away constantly. So I won't notice any difference in the cars handling characteristics. Is this right?


Yep, it's electro-mechanical with no hydraulic. 

As for when and how much boost, I'm not sure how it's configured for the Beetle but some newer cars can calculate how much boost to give by using change in steering angle and car speed. For example... 0-10 MPH maximum boost, 11-45 MPH 50% boost, and 46+ MPH no boost.


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## Old Bug Man (Nov 5, 2011)

I did drive one back in October and it handled great. But I was unaware it had this kind of steering system at the time, so I wasn't really focusing on that (I think I was too distracted playing with the DSG). Thank you for the explanations, it sounds like a good thing.


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

Forgot to mention that...

- 2.5L Beetle retains the traditional hydraulic PS pump

- 2.0L TSI Beetle has the newer electro-mechanical PS pump

I hope VW electro-mechanical PS pump is durable. Many cars with this newer technology have premature failures often as low as 50-70k miles. Mini is known for this. Each replacement costs $1000. :banghead:


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## Old Bug Man (Nov 5, 2011)

We can only hope. I wonder what other models have it--GTIs presumably, and for how long, and how are they holding up?


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