# 2.5 vs 2.0t



## Supdave66 (Apr 21, 2021)

I know this has been discussed many times, so I apologize.
i am definitely a newbie to modern Vw’s. Currently I only have old bugs, buses and a vanagon. I really want a fun little car ( beetle) for the summer. My daily driver is a tundra and with the new girl friend being over 40 miles away, gas is killing me. 
l definitely want a standard shift beetle, just because I have a couple air cooled. So the big question is 2.5 or 2.0t??? Want it to be fun and reliable, because most likely I will never sell it. I have done a bunch of reading and the 2.5 is a very reliable motor but the 2.0 T can be problematic. price range is 10 to 14, any ideas ????


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## ThatBlueBeetle (May 13, 2018)

Welcome to the forums!

FULL DISCLOSURE: I have not driven a 2.5L manual Beetle, nor a 1.8T manual Beetle, nor a TDI manual Beetle, but I do own a 2.0T Beetle. I am going off what I have read and what I know. 

To cut straight to the chase, you hit the nail on the head. The 2.5L is generally very reliable and the 2.0T can be problematic. The 2.5L gets slightly worse fuel efficiency than the 2.0T, but the 2.0T needs premium gas while the 2.5L does not. The 2.0T is definitely faster than the 2.5L, and the suspension on 2.0T bugs is stiffer than the 2.5L Beetle. The big question is are you willing to deal with the potential headaches that can come from the 2.0T.

My personal take is get the 2.0T, specifically in the 2012-13 Beetle Turbo and 2014-16 Beetle R Line. Yes, they have carbon buildup issues. Yes, the early ones can have timing chain tensioner issues (early 2012 model year cars, generally built in 2011). Yes, the intake manifold flap position sensor can and usually will go bad. But you get 200hp, 207 lb-ft of torque (210hp in 2014+), a solid chassis with independent rear suspension, and it can be found with a 6 speed manual. I absolutely love my bug, and I just cleared 50k miles. It is a hoot to drive, and despite the occasional headaches it has given me, I absolutely adore this thing. 

There are two other Beetles that you might consider - the 1.8T beetles and the TDI beetles. 

The 2014 1.8T beetle replaced the 2.5L and can be had with a 5 speed manual. I believe those bugs also had independent rear suspension, but don't quote me on that. That generation engine (EA888 Gen 3), from what I recall, is actually rather reliable. 2016 is the last year (I believe) you could get a manual bug. I've driven a couple 1.8T cars. My big gripe was the lack of power compared to my 200hp in my bug, but the 1.8T engine has smooth power delivery (almost like an NA car) and they were fun cars to drive (an auto 1.8T Jetta, an auto 1.8T Golf, and a manual 1.8T Golf Alltrack).

TDIs seem to be scarce, but they are still reliable and can be had with 6 speed manuals as well. The TDIs definitely have an independent rear suspension, but they're softer sprung than the 2.0T Beetles. I have yet to drive a TDI of any sorts, so take that with a grain of salt. 

Hopefully this helps! Good luck!!


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## Supdave66 (Apr 21, 2021)

ThatBlueBeetle said:


> Welcome to the forums!
> 
> FULL DISCLOSURE: I have not driven a 2.5L manual Beetle, nor a 1.8T manual Beetle, nor a TDI manual Beetle, but I do own a 2.0T Beetle. I am going off what I have read and what I know.
> 
> ...


Wow, you are quite knowledgeable! that is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you very much for the information. 
Dave


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## Supdave66 (Apr 21, 2021)

Supdave66 said:


> Wow, you are quite knowledgeable! that is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you very much for the information.
> Dave





ThatBlueBeetle said:


> Welcome to the forums!
> 
> FULL DISCLOSURE: I have not driven a 2.5L manual Beetle, nor a 1.8T manual Beetle, nor a TDI manual Beetle, but I do own a 2.0T Beetle. I am going off what I have read and what I know.
> 
> ...


Sorry, forgot to ask. Does that mean the 2.5 beetle does not have independent rear suspension???


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## ThatBlueBeetle (May 13, 2018)

Supdave66 said:


> Sorry, forgot to ask. Does that mean the 2.5 beetle does not have independent rear suspension???


I believe the 2.5L beetles have a torsion beam rear suspension, similar to what you'd find in a 2.5L Jetta.


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## Stu3 (Jul 17, 2012)

2012 2.5L owner here! Still driving it (32K miles!!!) and love the car and engine/trans combo has been perfect. Still on the OEM tires and battery. Did a major service with coil packs last year as preventive maintenance. The 2.5L is bullet proof and has enough power (we tend to use Sport mode) for any normal driving. Thinking about selling it this year to get a bigger car with 4 doors. Carvana offer is around $12.5 which I is insane if true for a car that is almost 10 years old. I think we paid $24K in March 2012.


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## Dbliss28 (May 30, 2021)

Stu3 said:


> 2012 2.5L owner here! Still driving it (32K miles!!!) and love the car and engine/trans combo has been perfect. Still on the OEM tires and battery. Did a major service with coil packs last year as preventive maintenance. The 2.5L is bullet proof and has enough power (we tend to use Sport mode) for any normal driving. Thinking about selling it this year to get a bigger car with 4 doors. Carvana offer is around $12.5 which I is insane if true for a car that is almost 10 years old. I think we paid $24K in March 2012.


I’ve got a 2012 2.5l at 115k and have never had anything more than scheduled maintenance and a recall on the alternator (i believe) when my wife still owned it. The engine in great and bulletproof but I will point out if you wanted to look into modifications, the 2.0t has tons more options.


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## bpeacock687 (Nov 13, 2021)

ThatBlueBeetle said:


> Welcome to the forums!
> 
> FULL DISCLOSURE: I have not driven a 2.5L manual Beetle, nor a 1.8T manual Beetle, nor a TDI manual Beetle, but I do own a 2.0T Beetle. I am going off what I have read and what I know.
> 
> ...


@ ThatBlueBeetle
I had a 2002 TDI Beetle and the ONLY way I got it was the guy who was selling it had no idea what he had. I paid $2500 for it with only 96,000 miles. The things will go well above 400k if maintained. I would still be driving it but some idiot pulled out in front of me and totaled it. The only problem is that it was a bitch to start when the temps hit single digits but I just cycled the glow plugs a few times and then finally bought an engine block heater. I absolutely loved the thing. Reliable doesn't even start to explain how rock solid it was. I now have a 2013 2.0T and love it just as much as the diesel - maybe more. The only issue in it's current 86,000 miles was a faulty pcv valve that **** the bucket at around the 85,000 mile mark (a common issue I am told) but the dealer replaced it at no cost. As far as performance, the power to weight distribution is superb and it handles like it's on rails. You can pull some serious g's in corners and the little turbo is big enough to maintain boost while climbing over the higher passes of the Appalachian mountains here in GA. I just came back from the Blue Ridge Parkway where the elevations was > 6,000 feet at points and it did great. A bit slower up that high, noticed that the boost did fluctuate a bit more, but I never felt like I didn't have enough power to maintain speed or while climbing. Did I mention these things are a blast to drive and the engine really sounds much larger than it is. Has a nice little growl/hiss to it. I would say that if you service to factory specs and maintain them properly, the 2.0T is the way to go. Like all VW's..... they will have their gremlins and quirks..... but... those of us who are loyal to our beetle's love them enough to deal with the kinks/quirks. My main complaint honestly is the KESSY keyless system. My door touch feature (lock/unlock) has stopped working on me which isn't really that big of a deal. I can still unlock/lock/crank it just fine with the FOB. I just can't grab the handles to unlock it anymore which is honestly a bit of a bummer. I also forgot to mention the FENDER sound system will bust your ear drums and sounds awesome to say the least.


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## bpeacock687 (Nov 13, 2021)

Supdave66 said:


> I know this has been discussed many times, so I apologize.
> i am definitely a newbie to modern Vw’s. Currently I only have old bugs, buses and a vanagon. I really want a fun little car ( beetle) for the summer. My daily driver is a tundra and with the new girl friend being over 40 miles away, gas is killing me.
> l definitely want a standard shift beetle, just because I have a couple air cooled. So the big question is 2.5 or 2.0t??? Want it to be fun and reliable, because most likely I will never sell it. I have done a bunch of reading and the 2.5 is a very reliable motor but the 2.0 T can be problematic. price range is 10 to 14, any ideas ????


I had a 2002 TDI Beetle and the ONLY way I got it was the guy who was selling it had no idea what he had. I paid $2500 for it with only 96,000 miles. The things will go well above 400k if maintained. I would still be driving it but some idiot pulled out in front of me and totaled it. The only problem is that it was a bitch to start when the temps hit single digits but I just cycled the glow plugs a few times and then finally bought an engine block heater. I absolutely loved the thing. Reliable doesn't even start to explain how rock solid it was. I now have a 2013 2.0T and love it just as much as the diesel - maybe more. The only issue in it's current 86,000 miles was a faulty pcv valve that **** the bucket at around the 85,000 mile mark (a common issue I am told) but the dealer replaced it at no cost. As far as performance, the power to weight distribution is superb and it handles like it's on rails. You can pull some serious g's in corners and the little turbo is big enough to maintain boost while climbing over the higher passes of the Appalachian mountains here in GA. I just came back from the Blue Ridge Parkway where the elevations was > 6,000 feet at points and it did great. A bit slower up that high, noticed that the boost did fluctuate a bit more, but I never felt like I didn't have enough power to maintain speed or while climbing. Did I mention these things are a blast to drive and the engine really sounds much larger than it is. Has a nice little growl/hiss to it. I would say that if you service to factory specs and maintain them properly, the 2.0T is the way to go. Like all VW's..... they will have their gremlins and quirks..... but... those of us who are loyal to our beetle's love them enough to deal with the kinks/quirks. My main complaint honestly is the KESSY keyless system. My door touch feature (lock/unlock) has stopped working on me which isn't really that big of a deal. I can still unlock/lock/crank it just fine with the FOB. I just can't grab the handles to unlock it anymore which is honestly a bit of a bummer. I also forgot to mention the FENDER sound system will bust your ear drums and sounds awesome to say the least.


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## TimelessBucket (Apr 6, 2021)

I would personally take the 2.5L, Yeah the rear is a bit stiffer and the suspension is not perfect (but we have taken our jetta through..... uhmmmm hell and back in some situations, the rear held up. You also have to understand that even though, the car would have a solid beam.... in real world it is not considered solid suspension. This can be tested by lifting 1 side of the car up - generally by the wheel - and checking if the other side lifts at the same time, I had my car on some weird slopes and hills while traveling, seems that the rear end is pretty flexible, not as good as an MK4 suspension, but it does flex quite a bit to keep the rear end sticking to tthe road). The 2.5L is such a nice peace of mind, some issues, but it is quite a reliable motor (knock sensors, vacuum pump, valve cover breather diaphram). My wife drives a 2.5L jetta. 

What you get with the 2.5 is GOOD torque throughout your revv range, the 5cyl is very nice for daily driver, less shifting because being in the wrong gear is not always the end of the world. This makes a good cruiser. As per fuel economy, it is AMAZING on the highway, in traffic it's quite a guzzler. We went on a 600KM trip.... Discovered that the 2.5L jetta can do around 900km on a full tank of gas, that was insane because we were always used to <400km in heavy traffic/general use. Lastly, the 2.5 is not slow, it's not FAST either, but it's right there in the middle somewhere, plenty of GO when you need it.


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## Freezinghot (Dec 1, 2021)

The 2.0 is very receptive to tuning but ya, they’re pretty unreliable engines if you don’t constantly keep on them, in my experience. I had my engine go at 80k miles and the shop got 9k$ out of the insurance for replacement. Love it to death but the 2.5 is super predictable and reliable.


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## bpeacock687 (Nov 13, 2021)

@Freezinghot can you specify which maintenance you are speaking of or are you just referring to regular oil changes? You have me a bit concerned as mine is the 2.0T and just rolled 86k miles.


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## Freezinghot (Dec 1, 2021)

Just everything that’s recommended by VW. Oil changes obviously the main one. Religiously change that oil early, if possible, and use only recommended oil. Some models, around the 2012 year from what I understand, also have timing chain tensioner issues so definitely get that done early. My original 2012 had the timing jump for this reason and from what I understand, the 2015 engine that replaced mine doesn’t have that issue. 
Not trying to scare but this is what I’ve experienced and what I’ve read. May not universally be the case.


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## TimelessBucket (Apr 6, 2021)

Up to 13' chain issues. After 13' not as much, but still a problem. If unlucky, balance shafts can go as well. (New parts updated) - (if you do the job, buy new chain covers. Reusing leak most of the time)

Oil separator (misfire #3 and 4). (Revised several times)

Rear crank shaft seal leak. (Updated)

Carbon build up in the intake. (Cant do anything about this as it is a direct injection motor. Eventually everyone does it)

Intake manifold / parts of manifold fail. (Updated)

Water pump. (More of a hit and miss. Some last, others go early)


Well that is the big picture of things


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## bpeacock687 (Nov 13, 2021)

so far so good on this one. ODIS came back clean as a whistle. I do have a P2450 code stored for an evap issue but it's just my venting valve stuck open so I'm not as "green" as emissions wants me to be. It hasn't changed the day to day drivability of the car. I absolutely love my Volkswagens. I have had several, my favorite and most reliable being a 1987 Cabriolet convertible. My 2002 TDI Beetle was bomb proof until a farm truck pulled out and totaled it (stupid prick on a cell phone). I had a 2012 Golf GTI which I absolutely loved but my brother "borrowed" it one weekend while I was out of the country and blew it up.


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## Boomer Guy (Mar 26, 2021)

ThatBlueBeetle said:


> I believe the 2.5L beetles have a torsion beam rear suspension, similar to what you'd find in a 2.5L Jetta.


I may be wrong, but I think the Mark 5 series for the VW Beetle/Golf/Rabbit suspension switched to the independent rear suspension.


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## ThatBlueBeetle (May 13, 2018)

Boomer Guy said:


> I may be wrong, but I think the Mark 5 series for the VW Beetle/Golf/Rabbit suspension switched to the independent rear suspension.


The Mk5's might've been, but the bug has the underpinnings of the Mk6 Jetta, and that one did go back to torsion beams. The Mk6 GLI got independent rear suspension, and I can say that my Turbo has that.


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## Freezinghot (Dec 1, 2021)

Boomer Guy said:


> I may be wrong, but I think the Mark 5 series for the VW Beetle/Golf/Rabbit suspension switched to the independent rear suspension.


My 2012 beetle turbo has independent rear suspension.


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## Stu3 (Jul 17, 2012)

FWIW, I sold my 2012 2.5 Auto with Fender and 32K miles in Nov 2021 to Carvana for $17K. Could not believe it.


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