# Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason



## 1.8Twentieth (Apr 7, 2003)

Edit: Let's use this thread to find a fix, or find a way to disable the angel eyes on both sides all together. 
Title explains it. Took out headlight and nothing physical looks wrong. Tested wiring and thats not the problem. 
soo 600 dollars and a week later and im sitting here saying, " now what ? " 


_Modified by 1.8Twentieth at 12:38 AM 8-30-2005_


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## Gigitt (May 26, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (1.8Twentieth)*

Did the Celis rings work at all?
Or did they never work?


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## 1.8Twentieth (Apr 7, 2003)

they worked, then upon closing my hood a week after the install, they just "went out"
problem is the rear covers are drilled for hid's and i know damn well they'll try to use that to axe the warranty


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## Gigitt (May 26, 2004)

*Re: (1.8Twentieth)*

have you put the HID's in yet... if so, then have you wired them up using a relay to battery or just through the standard harnes?
You could have burnt out you harness or some other part of the wires from you harness. 
Break out the multimeter and test you harness for power for Low/High/Park/ and fogs/DRL if you have them.
I doubt that you blew a fuse for the Celis Rings... only High and low have fuses in the Fuse box.


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## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

A wire came loose.
Both sides went out simultaneously????
That's real odd.


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## 1.8Twentieth (Apr 7, 2003)

Nah, only driver side went out. Its not the wiring, i physically insepected both and the harness turns on the parking light in my ecode that i had in there b4 hand.


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## Gigitt (May 26, 2004)

*Re: (1.8Twentieth)*

Well since every thing works when you plug you old headlights into the wiring harness... it is not the wires or the fuses... sounds like the Celis circuitry or LED's have died








Warranty?


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (1.8Twentieth)*

omfg!!! i just had these installed on Friday and the same gawdam thing happened to me! closed the hood and the passenger side rings went out. all the other lights work and i had 2 instances where the HID didn't light at start up.
oh yeah, forgot to mention that i have the HID kit with the rheostat kit.
if you have any answers, i'd love to hear em.
it doesn't feel very pimp to have one set of celis rings blaring.


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## 1.8Twentieth (Apr 7, 2003)

I'm split. I absolutly love the light throw of these headlights but hate how cheap it looks now with the celis out on one side. I even tried just pulling the city light fuses. but of course the were wired to the rear taillights so i had to put them back in. I'm ready to just snip the wires in the side that works just for some uniformity.


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (1.8Twentieth)*

i feel your pain my friend. the worst part about this situation is that i ordered my lights from Germany direct from TM Tuning. Don't get me wrong, it has been ok working with them so far but now that i've got the headlights i'm very worried that i'm going to be left hanging. i really, really hope they respond to my emails. let me know if you find out anything with these lights and i'll do the same for you.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

I have been going back and forth with TM Tuning (who has been great with responses and trying to help by the way) and I really am getting frustrated. TM has contacted Hella who insists that it cannot be a problem with the lights. Both rings lit the first time the lights were turned on and haven't done so together since. Both have come on (one at a time) imtermittently, so I know the LEDs are not toasted. TM suggested it might be a grounding problem, but that can't be it now. I hard grounded all three grounds (I have the leveling motors as well) to the chassis and it did not help. We tested my #10 pin, well, we tested all the pins on my harnesses this weekend, and all produced the correct power (or were grounded) as appropriate. Oh, and my stock lights work 100% correctly. The new lights, everything minus the Celis rings, including the leveling motors and HID low beams, work perfectly.

I feel pretty confident that the problem is in the lights, given everything I've tried but TM and Hella seem to think differently. Hella apparently tests these lights twice and TM an additional time before they are shipped. I sent TM links to this thread and the other thread and asked that they pass them on to their contacts at Hella.


_Modified by stripethree at 11:23 AM 8-29-2005_


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Oh, yeah, and upon delivery, my passenger side light also had a piece of cardboard in it:

Yes, that was in the housing and we had to fish it out with a wire coat hanger through the high beam spot with the bulb removed. Previous thread.
And the same passenger side light had a seal that looked awfully nasty:

More on what I did to try and solve this problem: here. Nothing worked.


_Modified by stripethree at 9:16 AM 8-29-2005_


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## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

I sell these and one of my two pairs had the remains of cardboard much like your bottom picture - no signs of cardboard inside though thank God.
I'm not sure what that is, but I was afraid to really mess with it...as it pulls at the glue when pulling the cardboard and that would cause a bigger sealing problem.
Besides that, they looked to be in perfect shape.


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## 1.8Twentieth (Apr 7, 2003)

Well i'm in a stickier situation being that i purchased the headlights in germany from TMT tuning. They were carried by me into the US on the plane.
I think the more realistic fix is going to be getting rid of the rings completley. As i stated before, i love the light throw, and i do not want to have to drop another 1000 on OEM or something. So who with electrical know-how can throw up a DIY on how to disable the angel eyes. I know its real ghetto - rigged, but i'd rather all or none - and in this situation it looks like none.


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (1.8Twentieth)*

i didn't have the cardboard in my headlight but i did have the shoddy seal. 
i also purchased them from TM Tuning and they told me the seal is normal and should be safe.
they also told me that it is impossible for the celis rings to click on and off. i think they misunderstood me. mine worked and then clicked off after a few hours and never came back on.
i did disable the DRLs by bending back the TFL pin since they told me the lower power output of the DRL would eventually damage the HID ballasts.
so question for you all that have these lights, did you disable the DRLs before the first ignition of the HIDs?


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Here's some shots of where I grounded all three connections on each side:
 
Which should be sufficient, although an EE friend of mine who also works on cars (where's Pat and his pimp Merc?) suggested I try another spot on the block just to make sure they are getting a good ground. I am also going to check the resistance between these spots and the negative terminal once I get my hands on a voltmeter. Don't mind the electrical tape, I know it won't hold up, I'll do something more permanent once (hopefully) the issue is resolved.
I also got my lights from TM and my DRLs were disabled via electrical tape long before this install.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (1.8Twentieth)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8Twentieth* »_Tested wiring and thats not the problem. 

Can you be more specific? Just curious on what you tried. As you seem to be, I'm trying to determine what to try next.


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## 1.8Twentieth (Apr 7, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_
Can you be more specific? Just curious on what you tried. As you seem to be, I'm trying to determine what to try next.

Well initially after i took out the headlight and it appeared to be perfectly fine inside, and there is no physical bulb you can see that would be blown out, i thought " hmm i wonder if its my wiring ".
To test this, i reconnected my e-code that i took out, and to my dismay, when clicking on the city lights, both city lights came on.. which leads me to believe that the wiring and everything up to the actual headlight is in perfect working condition. 
Follow me?
Then i thought, "oh im just going to pull the city light fuses so they both stay off"
Then i realized - vw uses the same fuse for the rear taillights too


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (1.8Twentieth)*

Just got a response from Damian at TM Tuning and here is what he recommended:
"It is doubtful that the disabling of the DRL's is affecting the Celis, the DRL runs on it's own independent like circuit that does not really influence anything else. I cant rule out anything completely but it's unlikely.

I understand that the celis did work and no longer do now, the LED's can be shorted out but again this is unlikely unless someone made some major error with the wiring.

The fail-safe way that will determine if it is in fact the light that is having a problem for whatever reason, would be a simply 12v bench test. Ask your mechanic to take a 12v bench tester and with the car turned off and battery disconnected set a ground to wire position number "4" and set the power to wire position number "10". The Celis should come on during this test. If they do not then we can move onto that when we get there. For now we can move one thing at a time.

I hope everything is more clear, I will continue to investigate the situation and hopefully our efforts will yield the desired result for everyone's interest.

Regards,
Damian"
Damian has been willing to help out so far and I hope he continues to help out till this gets resolved.
Has anyone tried this test yet? I don't have the electrical know how to perform this test.








edit - just noticed the post above that you tested the lights. so, you're saying you did the bench test and all the lights except for the celis came on? man, i hope there is a fix out there. is there anyone that has these without any probs on the vortex?


_Modified by yum at 11:40 AM 8-30-2005_


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

stripethree, can you send me the wiring diagram that you used for the leveling motors? my friend didn't want to risk installing them wrong in case he guessed wrong. my email is [email protected]
it would be great if you could forward me any instructions on how to finish up the wiring install that would be great. i have since moved to boston after the initial install and i'm paranoid about doing the wiring myself. the headlights are in, i've disabled my DRLs and the wiring for the leveling motors are set up and run into the cabin but not connected to the new rheostat switch. thanks in advance.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Brett - Yeah that's pretty much what I tired. My stock lights work perfectly. I know my LEDs aren't blown, driver's side comes on, but very very dim. Passenger side used to come on, but now doesn't.
I was going to try the bench test the lights but my car got broken into Monday night. I just got back from the auto glass shop, but still need to get the windows retinted and tie up some loose ends. I will probably not get to it until after Bug Out this weekend.
James - sent you email about the leveling motor wiring.


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## 1.8Twentieth (Apr 7, 2003)

Bump


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

thanks for the specs. i appreciate it.








i'm wondering if people that are having this problem have installed relays or just disabled the DRLs by modifying the switch TFL pin.
i'm going to call a local shop and have them do the bench test to see if the celis ring is functioning or not. i suspect that it is a wiring problem or an electrical system problem.


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## euRo_tuner (Nov 23, 2004)

asdfadsf. i was just about to buy a set of these lights. =(
its not a defect from the lights is it? i guess im going to have to look at other projectors?


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

I'm just curious, is this only happening to people who bought their headlights from TM Tuning...
"OR"
Are there others who bought theirs from other companies and have this same problem w/their Celis Rings?
Later


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## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_I'm just curious, is this only happening to people who bought their headlights from TM Tuning...
"OR"
Are there others who bought theirs from other companies and have this same problem w/their Celis Rings?
Later

I have only sold two sets...One set came back b/c the buyer didn't like the fact that HELLA somehow is getting some cardboard that sticks to the outside of the glass seal. 
The only other set I sold hasn't been a problem yet (I would hope that if it were, the buyer would contact me).
But if they are true Hella Celis units then the problem is NOT isolated to one company, as all we do is purchase from hella directly.
I am starting to get concerned as their may be some quality issues. And that's the last company I'd ever expect something like this of.
Let's wait it all out and see what happens. Could be a wiring issue? Maybe a difference b/w the MK4 Euro and MK4 n/a harnesses that causes those very sensitive rings to burn out?


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I have only sold two sets...One set came back b/c the buyer didn't like the fact that HELLA somehow is getting some cardboard that sticks to the outside of the glass seal.

So I'm not the only one, again. This is getting frustrating. I am at my parents dog sitting so I cannot post the pictures I took righy now, but I bench tested the driver's side light and it performed the same way it does via the light swtich, not at full power. I did not do the passenger side light because I couldn't get alligator clips in the small space and wasn't in the mood to pull the lights off.
I wired power directly from the positive terminal on the car battery and ground to the negative terminal. The Celis rings lit, but not at their full intensity. This is the exact behavior they have been doing while hooked up to the lighting harness. I took pictures, then I hooked them back up to the harness and took pictures again. Then, I did the same test, but this time used a previously unopened and unused 12v battery as the power source. Same results. Based on the pictures I have seen on TMs site and of other's that have the lights installed, there is no way that the Celis rings are lighting up to their full potential. They do not look nearly as bright (in a semi-dark garage) as they did in the pictures TM sent me of their test. The tests I did today pretty much mirror what TM says they do before they ship.
I don't know what to do next. TM has told perviously me I can return the lights, they will send them to Hella, but if Hella finds them to be in working order, or that it was an install related failure, I get the lights back and am out the rather expensive to and from shipping to Germany. I do not see how it is possible to have an install related failure on a set of lights that is plug and play. Unhook battery (which apparently a lot of people don't do and maybe isn't necessary but I did anyway), plug in lights, reconnect battery, done. How does that get screwed up?


_Modified by stripethree at 2:43 PM 9-3-2005_


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

yeah, i bought mine from TM as well. they are pretty cool about this but again, i'm in the same position as you, no matter how helpful they are, we will still get stuck footing $$$ for all the shipping and not to mention this collosal headache of getting everything sorted out.
the only reason why i bought them from TM was that they assured me this was completely plug and play. 
did the ppl that bought the lights from TM get any instructions? i was shocked to not receive a single sheet of instructions or even a packing slip. i'm wondering if they got tossed out when they searched the box in customs.








i feel way more down in the dumps about this than i should. i would be sooooo happy if they just worked right. the world would be right as rain.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Hmm looking at the pictures I took today and going from memory (search is down) I might have to retract one of my previous statements, maybe the Celis on the driver's side are lighting up full power... I'll have to go take a look now that is really dark.
#10 pin wired to postive battery terminal, #4 pin wired to negative battery terminal:
 
Running off the harness (normal operation):
 
#10 pin wired to postive 12v battery terminal, #4 pin wired to negative 12v battery terminal:
 
This is making me go


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Here's what they look like (driver's side) in the dark... 
 
... I guess those do look as bright as they should be, maybe it was just the other picture. I will try and find it when search it up again. I think it was on a 337.


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

you're having problems getting the passenger side celis to come on right?
those look as bright as mine. 
i still haven't found anyone in the boston area to troubleshoot my lights for me.
sigh. maybe after the holidays.


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## Gigitt (May 26, 2004)

*Re: (yum)*

I'm still following this thread...
This pic does not look right... the Celis on the projector should be as bright as the one around the high beam. Then again it could be the angle of the pic... you should take pic straight on - as from the sides you get different intensity of White rings.

as example in this pic:
 
Yes this is how they should look at night:
 
Here are my Mk3 Hella Celis pics:
My Night Shot... front on:








My Night Shot... side on (low beam on)... notice that the intensity of white is lower. This is due to the way the rings are made to throw the light out... and why you should look at the rings from front on to compare intensity:








On my Mk3 Hela Celis lights there are 3 parts to the lighting the Rings.
1) (LHS headlight from back) on the bottom left you see Brown and Grey wire going to a Circuit board covered in epoxy resin. This is the Voltage convertor - as they are not running 12V LED's for the rings.
2) and 3) Each ring has another circuit board and Heatsink under the light. You can just see the circuit board under the hole (I took ot thte projector) and the big aluminium heat sink is between the hole and where Blue and Yellow wires cross the brown wire in the bottom middle of the picture.








So... as I see it you can only fail in 4 places:
above at 1) then both lights should be suffering,
above at 2) and 3) then each light will be suffering independantly or both are suffering if it is not 1)
And 4) a problem with wiring from the Sockect to the circuits inside.
I have not measured what the voltages should be at the internal circuit boards... but this is where I would start. If each ring is getting differnet voltages then you will get one ring brighter (more intense) than the other when looking head on. (The colour of the light will always be the same)
OK... so what I am saying is that it could be a voltage problem with the circuits inside if the LED's are ON and the rings are not bright!


_Modified by Gigitt at 12:22 PM 9-4-2005_


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

I think the first two pics, it is the angle of the picture that throws it off. In the night shots, front straight on, both rings look to be lighting up equally. I am still having problems getting the passenger rings to light at all, but I originally thought that the driver's side wasn't lighting as bright as it was, I don't think that's the case anymore.
I might have to pull the passenger light to bench test it, I couldn't get clips in there to my satisfaction, I didn't want to hook up the wires incorrectly and risk destroying the electronics in the light.
Marko - thanks for the suggestions, definitely gives plenty of things to take a look at.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *nat[email protected]* »_
Could be a wiring issue? Maybe a difference b/w the MK4 Euro and MK4 n/a harnesses that causes those very sensitive rings to burn out?


I totally agree with Nater on this... Because I remember when I went to my friend's house. His lights did work @ first but then the next day when I saw his car, the left side celis rings didn't work. And the one that was workin', I believe was not as bright as the first day he installed them and when I saw them.


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## Proulus (Jan 21, 2005)

Is it maybe possible that us cars run a slightly higher voltage to the lights than the european ones? Maybe a different component is used for the battery or alternator. I've not used these lights, but I have used a lot of led's and I know when the voltage is even a little higher than normal they tend to burn out fast. The same thing happens on normal citylights when people swap led's in (they go out prematurely) so maybe us cars have poorly regulated power connections to the lights. Just a thought


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (Proulus)*

The voltage going to the lights isn't regulated. The lights shouldn't burn out with 14volts or so going to them. If they are using LEDs (I assume that they are) I'm sure that they are using resistors or something to limit the current to the LEDs.


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## 1.8Twentieth (Apr 7, 2003)

Hmm... anyone else have some good input?
So far we seem to be narrowing down the possible causes


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (1.8Twentieth)*

Why not just disconnect the parking light lead on the other headlight like you suggested? If you've mod'd them you aren't going to be able to return them. Otherwise it sounds like you are going to have to the bad one apart and try to repair it yourself.


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## 1.8Twentieth (Apr 7, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (dennisgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dennisgli* »_Why not just disconnect the parking light lead on the other headlight like you suggested? If you've mod'd them you aren't going to be able to return them. Otherwise it sounds like you are going to have to the bad one apart and try to repair it yourself.

Do you have any expierence with the internals of these headlights? It's not that easy - there are ALOT more wires. I would have done this already if i had known which wire to pull. The car will be sitting for 10 weeks starting wedensday regardless, so I've got time to fix this one.


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (1.8Twentieth)*

Parking light is pin 10 on the 10-pin stock headlight connector.
Golf/Jetta IV Headlight


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I have only sold two sets...One set came back b/c the buyer didn't like the fact that HELLA somehow is getting some cardboard that sticks to the outside of the glass seal. The only other set I sold hasn't been a problem yet (I would hope that if it were, the buyer would contact me).

Did Hella take these lights back? It may be nitpicking, but I show my car, and I can't help put look at the ugly seal on my passenger side light everytime I open the hood...
Here's the pictures I was talking about on someone's 337:
















vs. mine again...
 
I guess that looks close... the color difference could be easily be surrounding light or variances in the camera. Someone in the area has to have a working set to compare to side by side...


_Modified by stripethree at 9:00 AM 9-6-2005_


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## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

No. I'm not wasting my energy on trying to get them taken back. They work perfectly and will seal just fine.
It may be a large flaw to you (which is ok) but to someone else it will not be.
Best,


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## Diabolikul (Dec 21, 2003)

I've been following the Celis saga on this thread, but I only see basically two of you with a problem, I can't find any other threads with issues. I have to believe more than 2 sets of lights were bought by 'tex members, but no one else is having an issue?
I want these lights, I think they look good. But, I want to make sure there isn't a defect first, and second I'd like to wire them up as fogs so I can determine when they are off or on.


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## alomI wolleY iTG (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Nater,
Do you remember way back when Hella made the CELIS for the BMW E36... those buyers had issues with their CELIS HD's, also. Pattern? Common flaw?


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (Diabolikul)*

There's at least four. Myself, Brett (1.8Twentieth), James (yum), and Sarat (if I spelled his name correctly), who hasn't posted but I think sleepygti28 (sup Theirry!) said something about his lights and I've seen his on his car in person functioning improperly.
I can't think of what else it could be... we've got two 20ths (Sarat is the second), another 1.8T, and an R32. All four of us got the lights from TM Tuning. At least three have HID drop in kits installed; Brett being the one I haven't noticed whether or not he does.
End of week four with these lights and they still don't work...


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (Diabolikul)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Diabolikul* »_I've been following the Celis saga on this thread, but I only see basically two of you with a problem, I can't find any other threads with issues. I have to believe more than 2 sets of lights were bought by 'tex members, but no one else is having an issue?

If you remember, these HELLA Celis Headlights were supposed to be available in the beginning of summer '05 to the masses but they delayed shipping them out because HELLA encountered some problems with them. I know this because I too was looking into getting these headlights and I would have had mine shipped to me from my cousin in Paris, France.
So what I'm trying to say is that there are still more problems with them and that all the bugs haven't been fully and completely worked out IMO.
And like someone mentioned previously, HELLA also had problems w/their E36 BMW Celis Rings.
IMO, the only way to find out if its a problem with the HELLA headlights or TM Tuning; is if someone bought their headlights from ECS Tuning or PG Performance. Because the pattern here seems to be that whoever bought their headlights from TM Tuning, apparently are the ones w/the problems. So if we could get someone to purchase their headlights from another company besides TM Tuning, we could later on tell if its really the HELLA headlights or if its just the units that TM Tuning is selling.
Later



_Modified by sleepygti28 at 1:52 PM 9-8-2005_


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## www.Euro-Cullen.com (May 3, 2005)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*

There are PRERELEASE units that were never supposed to be sold that have been sold early on! These units were only for display purposes supplied to certain channels by Hella.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

^ Don't just come in and make a statement like that. Show me proof.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (www.Euro-Cullen.com)*


_Quote, originally posted by *www.Euro-Cullen.com* »_There are PRERELEASE units that were never supposed to be sold that have been sold early on! These units were only for display purposes supplied to certain channels by Hella.

OMG!!! You guys are getting on my nerves!
I remember mentioning that in another thread months ago about these headlights and you guys just didn't believe me. You guys are just contradicting yourselves right now. WTF!!!
Later


_Modified by sleepygti28 at 9:18 PM 9-9-2005_


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*

Back to the subject at hand...

Bench tested my passenger light and the harnesses connector (pictured above), and it failed. And by failed, I mean the rings did not light up when wired directly to the battery. I did the driver's side light again just to be sure it wasn't the wires, and the driver's side lit. Tried the high beam on the passeenger side light, it worked. Went a step further, opened the back of the light and followed the wires for power and ground to the Celis rings...

See the pair of wires at the bottom, red for power, brown for ground. I connected power and ground here to the battery, same result, nothing.
I'm sending an email to TMTuning as soon as I finish posting. I'm done testing these lights. The stock ones are back on the car and I, to put it wildly, ain't happy. I'll update when TM responds...


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (stripethree)*

What I sent to TM...

_Quote »_I bench tested the passenger side light in two places and the rings did not work. My stock lights are back on the car (and work correctly, city lights included) and I am done with spending time testing the Celis lights. I have had these lights for three weeks, they have not worked correctly for one day out of that three weeks and I have removed the front bumper and lights to do testing a total of 6 times now. I do not have the time for this and I am not going to spend the money for a shop to look at them. I have been very patient in trying to figure out the problem, and again, it goes back to a defect in the light. Waiting for Hella to test them would go beyond my patience, as I fail to see how any install mishap could have damaged the light. All one had to do is plug the light in.
I am really at the point where I want to just return the housings and go a different route. Between the cardboard that was in the housing, the seal that looks sub par, and the failure of the lights, I don't want this set. This is not what I paid for, I am not the only one that has these problems, and it seems that Hella refuses to believe or acknowledge that it could be a problem with their lights.
I could go on, but I won't, because based on your emails and our phone conversation I think you understand my frustration. I will also reiterate that although it may seem otherwise, I am not dissatisfied with the service you all at TM have provided, just the product that was delivered. I was in contact with you guys for months before these came out and spent a lot of money and I have, well, nothing to show for it right now.
Have you heard anything further from Hella? What do you propose to do to resolve this situation? Also, did you ship multiple sets at the same time... I'm curious because I wonder if something was mishandled by the shipping company, since there are four people that ordered lights from you guys that are not working properly.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

TM replied to me, but I will wait to say more... Damian needs to speak to their warranty manager who will return on Monday. I will say that they do seem open to exploring options to resolve the situation, which I definitely appreciate. Damian did speak to Hella reps again, who remain adamant that the failure is not a result of the lights themselves. Basically, they think the failure is install related.
So, my question is this, how did you guys install your lights? Seems pretty simple... I disconnected the battery, removed the grille, bumper, etc., etc., removed the stock lights, put in the new lights (good old plug and play), reconnected the battery, and that was it. We also wired leveling motors, which was also done with the battery connected and none of the leveling connections have anything to do with the city light/Celis ring connections.


_Modified by stripethree at 10:15 AM 9-9-2005_


----------



## JB2556 (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*

Yup,minus the leveling motors the install was pretty staight forward. i dont see the install as part of the problem at all, its plug n play. furfuxsake..this is getting silly. at least damian is willing to work w/us. thanks for the input stripe3.u goin to the next meet? -JB2556


----------



## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*

Shouldn't be any need to disconnect the battery when changing the headlights. (Not that it hurts.) If you connected or disconnected the battery with the lights turned on I suppose a spike could fry LEDs - but I wouldn't expect that to happen.
Do the headlights come prewired for the leveling motors?


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (dennisgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dennisgli* »_Shouldn't be any need to disconnect the battery when changing the headlights. (Not that it hurts.) If you connected or disconnected the battery with the lights turned on I suppose a spike could fry LEDs - but I wouldn't expect that to happen.
Do the headlights come prewired for the leveling motors?

You are right, I asked a local shop their install procedure and they usually do not disconnect the battery. They also said it cannot do any harm, and I made sure everything was off when the battery was reconnected. 
I am not sure what you mean with your question on whether or not hte headlights come prewired for the leveling motors. TM installed the motors in the housings for me, and I had to run wires from the rheostat to the lights, and appropriately connect the power, ground, and control wires at the harness. I think the wiring diagrams were posted by you Dennis, I found them via search and saved the diagrams for the euroswitch, rheostat, and harness connections. Everything went fine with the leveing motor wiriing. If that doesn't answer your question let me know and I'll elaborate, judging from your past posts though you know tons more about the lighting stuff than I do.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_Because the pattern here seems to be that whoever bought their headlights from TM Tuning, apparently are the ones w/the problems. So if we could get someone to purchase their headlights from another company besides TM Tuning, we could later on tell if its really the HELLA headlights or if its just the units that TM Tuning is selling.
_Modified by sleepygti28 at 1:52 PM 9-8-2005_

I believe I made a statement early-on in this thread to the fact of me getting my hands on lamps that had some cardboard pieces stuck in the glue - no ANGEL EYE problem that I know of. But it's an 'imperfection'...
And there is no way that it's a TMT or other companys' problem - as they just source these lamps from Hella Germany anyway.


----------



## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_I am not sure what you mean with your question on whether or not hte headlights come prewired for the leveling motors.

I was just curious if you had to run wires inside the lights or whether they cam pre-wired like my Hella reflectors did.


----------



## Dubmekanik (Apr 6, 2002)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (dennisgli)*

Hey guys..This Jason. We did an install for James' hell lights (j/k) here at the shop. The set we had came with no instructions whatsoever. The factory plug (car-side) needed three wires added to make the leveling system work. They went into the empty three wire-slots left on the plug. Since there were only two wires left on the new leveling controller housing, and three on the headlight housing plug and no instructions, we decided to leave it alone until we could we could obtain some wiring diagrams. I have a STRONG electrical backround and could have figured out how to wire them, but didnt want to ruin my customer's chances of warranty if there was a problem. After James contacted whoever he bought them from they told him that a relay needed to be wired in to properly start the hid ballasts. Again no instructions provided. This is not a plug-and play system if relays need to be added to the factory wiring harness, and wires added to factory plugs (which require special tools and crimps) I hope you guys get this figured out....Peace


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

I'm confused as to why relays need to be installed. Are these lamps drawing more wattage or current then standard halogen lamps????
LEDs shouldnt' draw much at all, right?


----------



## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I believe I made a statement early-on in this thread to the fact of me getting my hands on lamps that had some cardboard pieces stuck in the glue - no ANGEL EYE problem that I know of. But it's an 'imperfection'...
And there is no way that it's a TMT or other companys' problem - as they just source these lamps from Hella Germany anyway.


I understand what you are saying and I apologize if it seemed as if I directly accused TM Tuning of selling bad units. I'm not @ all, I'm actually quite fond of TM Tuning and have ordered parts from them before. All I'm just really trying to say is its HELLAs fault because HELLA has yet to perfect these headlights. And they had shipped TM Tuning some awful units and that would harm TM Tunings business.








And like Stripthree mentioned, Damian from TM Tuning is a great guy. He's very patient and helpful. And is pretty quick to answer w/e-mail questions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
later

_Modified by sleepygti28 at 9:50 PM 9-10-2005_


_Modified by sleepygti28 at 10:07 PM 9-10-2005_


----------



## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
LEDs shouldnt' draw much at all, right?


Actually they don't because they have a diode in them. It should basically work as the same principal as an HID/XENON Kit in lamer terms, I believe. Where the HID/XENON kit or in this case the LED wedge bulb will use less current but will shine brighter @ a cooler temperature then a normal non-LED wedge bulb due to the effect of the diode.
And if I'm wrong, someone please correct me!
later


----------



## Gigitt (May 26, 2004)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*

You do not need a relay to run the headlights in the stock H7 halogen form... simple plug and play.
So why do you add relays... well if you are running higher wattage bulbs or a Set of Spotlights.
You can also add relays to power the HID/Xenon Balasts - although many people have used the factory wiring to just plug the balasts into, a relay is better as the startup current draw for HID/Xenon is quite high, and being higher then normal might heat up and melt or burn your wires. HID/Xenons when operating actually use less power (35W) compared to Halogen globes (55W-130W)... so adding a relay it seems sensless when looking at the operating current draw, which is true... but I would be looking at the start up current draw and adding a relay and fuses just to protect my HID/Xenon investment.
As for adding the leveling motors - Mk4 have differnent wiring set up and sounds lie that the leveling motor wiring is internal as is part of the OEM harness (as opposed to my Lk3 where the Leveling motor wires are completely separate and external)
For you Mk4 guys you will need to add the leveling motor wiring to OEM harness - and the wires should have already have the appropriate connector, so you should just be able to slip it into the correct hole. This would assume that the factory wiring in the car is alreay set up with +12V, -12V, and rheostat wire for th4e leveling motors. If not then you will have to add them!



_Modified by Gigitt at 10:32 PM 9-11-2005_


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

Anytime you wire up an aftermarket HID kit you'll need relays - period.
But in this case, we have some people just plugging these lamps in and losing their AA's.
So, it hasn't come down to needing a relay so what is it?


----------



## turbizznatch (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (1.8Twentieth)*

I've had mine on for 3+ weeks now and do not have a problem with the rings. I bought my set from TM Tuning and was contemplating buying the drop in HID kit they sell. After following this thread I decided against it because it seems that several people are having trouble with the Celis ring when they install the HID kit.


----------



## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (turbizznatch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbizznatch* »_I've had mine on for 3+ weeks now and do not have a problem with the rings. I bought my set from TM Tuning and was contemplating buying the drop in HID kit they sell. After following this thread I decided against it because it seems that several people are having trouble with the Celis ring when they install the HID kit.

Is it possible that an HID Kit would fry something in the wiring of the Celis rings???


----------



## Gigitt (May 26, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_
Is it possible that an HID Kit would fry something in the wiring of the Celis rings???









It could IF you are wiring the HID to the internal wires for Power.
You should always use a Fused Relay to power the HID's from the Battery direct and only use the Low beam wire as a trigger for the relay. This way there is no huge current draw on the headlight internal wiring.
I don;t think the Celis rings are wired with the low beam ... Celis rings should use the City Lights power - as this is what it's function is and replacing.
It is still a mystery.
I have been using my Mk3 Celis headlights now since the begining of January 2005 - zero problems.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_Is it possible that an HID Kit would fry something in the wiring of the Celis rings???









I don't really see how, given that the connections are completely seperate; the Celis rings use the city light connections and share nothing with the low beam connections as far as I know.
I thought about the HID kit being related to the problem, but I don't see how...

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Anytime you wire up an aftermarket HID kit you'll need relays - period.

Isn't this the purpose of the ballasts? Or is that just power conversation... I have no idea.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (turbizznatch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbizznatch* »_I've had mine on for 3+ weeks now and do not have a problem with the rings. I bought my set from TM Tuning and was contemplating buying the drop in HID kit they sell. After following this thread I decided against it because it seems that several people are having trouble with the Celis ring when they install the HID kit.

I'm just curious... Do you have the HELLA Celis headlights w/Fogs or w/out Fogs?


----------



## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_I don't really see how, given that the connections are completely seperate; the Celis rings use the city light connections and share nothing with the low beam connections as far as I know.

What pins do they use for ground for the parking light and low beam? Are you sure that they aren't shared?


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## JB2556 (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (dennisgli)*

just out of curiosity, would changing the n/american 10 pin to the ecs euro 12 pin plugs make a difference? at this point i'll try anything.


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## Gigitt (May 26, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_
...
Isn't this the purpose of the ballasts? Or is that just power conversation... I have no idea.









No The Ballast is like a charging capacitor and voltage converter, it converts the 12V into something like 25,000V to start and power the Xenon Arc that is the HID - it is not a fillament globe but an Electric arc light light source. HID systems have HIGE voltage, but they are comparative to only a 35W halogen globe for running current draw and heat.
Think of the Ballast in HID lights as the Starter in a Flurescent light.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (dennisgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dennisgli* »_What pins do they use for ground for the parking light and low beam? Are you sure that they aren't shared?

Whoops, I take that back, the ground is shared (had to look at your trusty diagram again) between the parking light and headlight. Like I said before, you know much more about this than I.
But I am still not sure how the HIDs sharing a ground could blow the LEDs... any thoughts?
Pins for reference:
1. leveling motor power
2. fog light power
3. leveling motor ground
4. fog light & turn signal ground
5. leveling motor control
6. turn signal power
7. low beam power
8. headlight (low & high?) & parking light ground
9. high beam power
10. parking light power
I don't know what the extra 2 pins in the 12 pins would do, but I don't see how that'd work since both our harnesses and the Celis connectors are 10 pin. OEM HIDs, someone correct me if I am wrong, have a 12 pin connector, which is what merits the 10-12 adapter on US spec harnesses with 10 pins. Again, I don't know what the extra pins do either.


_Modified by stripethree at 6:58 PM 9-13-2005_


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## automan21 (Feb 22, 2005)

*Re: (yum)*

is there a relay inside the housing? maybe that went bad?


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## Gigitt (May 26, 2004)

*Re: (automan21)*


_Quote, originally posted by *automan21* »_is there a relay inside the housing? maybe that went bad?

Nope!
the headlights are designed to use the OEM Wiring harness and fuse box.
There are Relays for headlights at the fuse box... a long way away from the front of the car... hence the need to relay HID's separately and to the battery... With HID's on OEM Wires the length of wire would heat up and can cause you problems by melting the wires or even melting your fuse box from heat caused by toooo much current going through the wire.


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## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_Isn't this the purpose of the ballasts? Or is that just power conversation... I have no idea.









The ballasts have NOTHING to do with the relays. As a matter of fact, it's the ballasts that need the relays so they can get the "juiced" input.
Once the ballast gets 'taken care of', the bulb does too.
But if the ballast isn't getting proper voltage input then the output voltage is affected and that's when you get a flickering bulb.
EDIT:
I should have read PAGE 3 and gigitt's comments before I posted. You said it well...



_Modified by [email protected] at 5:58 PM 9-13-2005_


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## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: (Proulus)*

This is very strange. I had this lights from more than 6 months without an issue running with HIDs and 3 weaks ago, my passenger celis went out. Thay are also from TMT. 
I didnt think about warranty because the big hole of the HID wire, I just went with a friend and opened it.
This is what we found:
* The epoxy circuit faults, we tried to reproduce it without a success.
* There is no LEDs or small bulbs inside de rings, the "lamp" is a diode like this one:








In this celphone ( sony k700i ) you can see a small yellow circle that is used to function as a flash or lamp for the camera.








So we thought that using a resistance to convert the 12 volts in ( 3.5 V prox) will be work. But one side could be shinner than the other.








As soon as I get more info I'll post it.


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (FerVR6)*

Bizarre trend, eh, fellas? It seems that only the passenger celis are going out. Well, I hope that you guys with all the engineering degrees figure this problem out and explain it in human terms for regular guys like me.
I still dream about the happy days of running through the fields with my dual functioning Celis Rings


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (FerVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FerVR6* »_This is very strange. I had this lights from more than 6 months without an issue running with HIDs and 3 weaks ago, my passenger celis went out. Thay are also from TMT. 
I didnt think about warranty because the big hole of the HID wire, I just went with a friend and opened it.
This is what we found:
* The epoxy circuit faults, we tried to reproduce it without a success.

You've had these lights for six months?
Sorry to be a skeptic, but ah, how? I was under the impression they haven't been out near that long, even the non-fogs. I could be mistaken.
Did you have the HID kit from day one? Did TM install it or did you?
Does anyone with this problem *NOT* have an HID kit... I am starting to wonder if the low beam/high beam/parking light ground can't handle an HID drop in... just seems to be a commonality thus far.


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## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: (stripethree)*

more than 6 months... to be exact next November would be a year with them.
yes, from day one I have HIDs in the celis, my HIDs kit its from a BMW in a yunkyard, not from TMT. I connected them.
One thing its for sure, this problem is NOT relative with the HIDs intalled or not. I think this circuit ( volt changer ) in the passenger side have a defective component.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (FerVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FerVR6* »_more than 6 months... to be exact next November would be a year with them.
yes, from day one I have HIDs in the celis, my HIDs kit its from a BMW in a yunkyard, not from TMT. I connected them.
One thing its for sure, this problem is NOT relative with the HIDs intalled or not. I think this circuit ( volt changer ) in the passenger side have a defective component. 

I am guessing you have the MK3 HELLA Celis Ring Headlights right?


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

^ Yeah I just saw he has a Mark 3. Sorry for the skepticism, I thought you were talking about the Mark 4s.
Well, my passenger light is going back to TM, then back to Hella and they will see what the deal is.


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## JB2556 (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*

stripethree,
your sending your headlamp(s) back? i need to get in on that. did u and damien reach an agreement w/hella? also,im curious to see if running the lamps w/regular bulbs would make a diff. there is a pattern, we're all runnning the hids. hit me -Jb2556


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (JB2556)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JB2556* »_your sending your headlamp(s) back?

Yes, but it is not that simple. The passenger lamp is going back to Hella for evaluation to figure out what the problem is/was. I reached an agreement with TM that is to my satisfaction, but (and I stress this) it did involve some costs to me. I'm not going to go into detail because, well, it's TM's responsibility to figure out how they are going to deal with individual customers. I definitely think they are committed to figuring out, through Hella, what went wrong with the lights in order to have it fixed, to prevent it from happening again, and to come to a satisfactory resolution for everyone that has the problem.
Even with another set of lights, wouldn't you be worried that this could happen again... I know I would be considering no one has been able to pinpoint the problem yet.


_Modified by stripethree at 11:29 AM 9-15-2005_


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## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

Isn't this only happening to guys with HIDs installed?
Of you all that installed HIDs in these lamps:
Did you run a relay or are they just thrown in as a replacement to the halogens?


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Isn't this only happening to guys with HIDs installed?

[email protected] said this is not the case, they have 2 people with the problem w/out HIDs.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Of you all that installed HIDs in these lamps: Did you run a relay or are they just thrown in as a replacement to the halogens?

[email protected] said that their HID drop in kit, which I have, has a relay included. He said I could add a second one, but that the integrated one should be perfectly find on it's own.


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## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: (stripethree)*

well, It looks like the circuit was burned because a humidity condensed inside the headligth.
In this case is correct, my HID wire was not really sealed and steam was inside when the car was washed. Now we are trying to rebuild the circuit.
We descover that the lamp (diodes) works with 5 volts.


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

[email protected] said that their HID drop in kit, which I have, has a relay included. He said I could add a second one, but that the integrated one should be perfectly find on it's own.[/QUOTE]
Damian also told me this kit was a total plug and play, but since my kit didn't have any instructions and I had to leave town quickly (just moved to Boston from Chicago) I had Jason from MobileOne install the lights before I hit the road. His post is somewhere above or on another page. I basically gave him the entire box and trusted him to sort things out since I don't have any electrical experience and decided not to gamble with my $1200 lights. Oh, Damian did email me the instructions a week later. As they say, "a day late, a dollar short."
Damian mentioned to me that there would be a need to install relays and to disable the DRLs, but I didn't find any relays in the shipment. Or rather, they were included but they were a part of some foglight switches so we didn't think to look at them any further. I also spoke to someone over the phone (I think Jonka) to talk to me about my shipment and I asked him what the switches were for and he told me they were included by Hella in every shipment in case the buyer didn't have OE foglight hookups. So, I disregarded them.








It wasn't until after I emailed Damian to refund my money for the "missing" relays that he told me the switches did indeed contain the relays I needed. So, if the relays were in a separate box, then they really aren't "integrated" as suggested.








I think that Damian knows more about the cars and installation than the shipping guys, which is a shame. Too bad he can't take the orders and pack them too








I'm currently up a creek since I left my stock lights in Chicago, i don't know how to fix the lights myself and I have yet to find a shop to work with me in the Boston/New England area to help me fix them.
My lights were running for maybe a total of 2 hours total time before the passenger Celis went out. I thought maybe it had to do with the fact that I didn't know to disable the DRLs. I have since bent back the TFL pin to disable them. I know that I should have the relays installed to safeguard the HIDs and ensure they're running right. I don't have any flicker or problems right now *knock on wood. So the lights weren't really on the car long enough for me to suspect the humidity problem. 
I feel like this is just a money sink hole and I should have just got the TT turboback exhaust with my hard earned cash instead.








I hope you guys that find a fix to this continue to share with the rest of us.
Thanks in advance.


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## Brake_Dust (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (yum)*

sorry to hear you guys are having trouble...
I have had my MK4 Celis with a HID kit for 3 months or so and zero problems
I bought them from tmtuning....
hope you find a solution


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## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

*Re: (Brake_Dust)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Brake_Dust* »_sorry to hear you guys are having trouble...
I have had my MK4 Celis with a HID kit for 3 months or so and zero problems
I bought them from tmtuning....
hope you find a solution

I thank you for your business








Punk ass mo-fo


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I thank you for your business








Punk ass mo-fo
















Sorry back to the Subject!


----------



## Brake_Dust (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I thank you for your business








Punk ass mo-fo

dude I bought these way before you were a distributor








well at least tmtuning had my deposit before you became a big shot















-tom


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## alomI wolleY iTG (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: (Brake_Dust)*

dag... u two live like 20 mins from each other... do i hear a challenge


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## SWAGG (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: (alomI wolleY iTG)*

Anyone know where I can get these at a good price? I am willing to gamble on the defective celis lol. I just need some new lamps and do not want to get anything cheapo like Helix/Depo etc....Thanks! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (SWAGG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SWAGG* »_Anyone know where I can get these at a good price? I am willing to gamble on the defective celis lol. I just need some new lamps and do not want to get anything cheapo like Helix/Depo etc....Thanks! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Nater, himself, I believe sells the HELLA Celis Headlights...


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## SWAGG (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*

oops, duh







Nater...hook me up!


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## NY 04 GTI VR6 (Jan 18, 2005)

I got a set from rpiequipped. My set had a bad seal on the drivers side wich causes my lights to fog up when it rains. rpiequipped is warranting the set so far no problems. As for the rings IV had no problems what so ever. One thing i noticed is when i nstalled the headlights my rear fog light stopped working. IV haven’t had muuch time to play with it but i did managed to see if there is power coming from the euro switch and there was none. What’s different with the hella set that makes the rear fog not work? Had any one had the same problem?


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (NY 04 GTI VR6)*

Did you check your fog light fuse? The front and rear fogs are on the same fuse.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I have a set in stock (IM me at '[email protected]' here on vortex).
I'm not sure if mods care that I post commercially using my old name (this one).
But in the event that they shut it down (formality) just PM me there.
I have them in stock. But I'm still undecided as to whether I want to continue selling them for fear of "issues".
If you want to talk about a deal call me and we'll talk:
610-331-3451.
Nate


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (FerVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FerVR6* »_
* There is no LEDs or small bulbs inside de rings, the "lamp" is a diode like this one:


Just to nitpick slightly, LEDs are diodes. LED is an acronym for Light Emitting Diode


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## KKPsi1.8T (Jan 9, 2004)

this issue concerns me. i purchased these headlights w/ fogs from TM Tuning little over a month ago. i got them relatively quickly, factoring in that they had to be shipped over an ocean. i would have installed them by now, but my car was broken into about 3 weeks ago. they should be installed this weekend. currently, i am running a *true* philips retrofit hid kit and have had no issues. i planned on integrating the hid kit with the hella's. after reading this, i might just install the headlights, let them burn in for a week, and see if anything weird happens. 
i would like to know exactly how many people are running these lights in a mkIV.  vendor doesn't matter. i know 4 texers are having issues, and 2 aren't, but how many total are running these? keep the info coming. i should update this weekend after i install mine. i have noticed that there is a small amount of cardboard in the seal of the passenger side light, but it is hardly noticable. i will also try to get some pics up soon.
thanks


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## KKPsi1.8T (Jan 9, 2004)

going back to the beginning of the thread, 1.8Twentieth said that his issue started when he closed his hood one day. Has anyone else encountered this issue as soon as they closed their hood?
thanks


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (KKPsi1.8T)*

Mine started malfunctioning in a slightly different way but related to the hood.
I shut my hood and the passenger HID winked out. So when I opened it back up again to check the connections, and wiggled a few wires the HID came back on and the Celis went off.








I can contribute the "malfunctioning" HID to the fact that I didn't disable the DRLs until a day later but the Celis shouldn't have been affected.
I am currently not running a relay but plan on switching it over very soon. My leveling motors are wired but not hooked up to the rheostat yet. Still trying to settle into Boston before I find the time.
I hate turning on my lights now and I'm reminded of my anger everytime I see a reflection of one set of celis burning brightly in the night.


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (yum)*

I just got off the phone with Jonka at TMTuning. I must say that I'm very impressed with their service. I thought I was going to be outta luck since they are in Germany but to get service calls from across the seas is a pretty nice personal touch. Super courteous and helpful... well as helpful as can be in this situation with the Celis rings. In this particular case, I also had a cracked headlight protector and they are going to send me a new one despite the airline being completely uncooperative. So big http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for TMTuning's service dept on following up with this.
In regards to the Celis rings, he mentioned that he was going to receive one of the damaged lights from one of their customers, I'm assuming that this is stripethree's light, and that they were going to hear back from Hella hopefully within a month. Does this mean we will all have a fix? Dunno. Does this mean that TMTuning will work something out with us? I hope so!!!







Jonka did mention that there are some difference in the US spec and Euro spec wiring. I hope someone finds an answer soon and shares it.
Let's all keep our fingers crossed.


----------



## KKPsi1.8T (Jan 9, 2004)

any updates?


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (yum)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yum* »_In regards to the Celis rings, he mentioned that he was going to receive one of the damaged lights from one of their customers, I'm assuming that this is stripethree's light, and that they were going to hear back from Hella hopefully within a month.

Yup, it's my light. I have to email them to see if they got it yet, I have been out of town at H20. Hopefully Hella will have a quick turn around and we'll know what happend.


----------



## KKPsi1.8T (Jan 9, 2004)

i installed the headlights this weekend and they work fine. my beam pattern on the passenger side is a bit off. the horizontal portion of the beam, the ( _ ) in _/, is tilted slightly higher on the left than the right. has anyone else experienced this? also, my driver's side beam is pointing to a bit to the passenger side, but when i try to adjust it with the inner screw, it is actually making it go down, and not left or right. any thoughts on these issues? thanks.


----------



## spoon8818 (Jan 28, 2004)

*Re: (KKPsi1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KKPsi1.8T* »_also, my driver's side beam is pointing to a bit to the passenger side, but when i try to adjust it with the inner screw, it is actually making it go down, and not left or right. any thoughts on these issues? thanks.

I am not sure if I'm correct about this.








I believe that headlights on a left-hand drive car tend to illuminate toward the right side of the road, and vice versa.
So, you can't use a headlight that's designed for a right-hand drive vehicle, otherwise, you'll glare the traffice towards you.


----------



## KKPsi1.8T (Jan 9, 2004)

nah, i have had e-code headlights on my corrado. the beam pattern is correct. the beam starts horizontal, then cuts up to the right at about a 30 degree angle. my driverside was aimed a bit to the right, fixed that. it is my passengerside headlight beam pattern that is slightly, i mean like a degree or two, off of horizontal. not a big deal, but i am picky. thanks for the input though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


_Modified by KKPsi1.8T at 8:10 PM 10-4-2005_


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Just an update: customs is apparently being sllllooooow and TM is still waiting for the light to arrive with them. They said they gave Hella a heads up to expect it, so hopefully the turnaround will be quick.


----------



## KKPsi1.8T (Jan 9, 2004)

nice, keep us informed. hope it all gets worked out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## spoon8818 (Jan 28, 2004)

*Re: (KKPsi1.8T)*

exactly~~i won't buy it if this thing doesn't get straightened out...
wait..wait...wait...


----------



## FiftyPence (Apr 25, 2004)

This is one long running saga, I hope you all get sorted http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (FiftyPence)*

Yes this has been an on going saga...
I'm crossin' my fingers for my 2 buddies with these headlights. And they've been following up on this problem.








God Speed my friends... God Speed.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SoniqGTI (Jul 17, 2005)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*

Just installed a set today. Every working perfect out of the box.


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (SoniqGTI)*

cool. i hope it lasts longer than mine did








out of curiosity, did you install the HID kit and leveling motors?


----------



## SoniqGTI (Jul 17, 2005)

*Re: (yum)*

No HID, no motors. Ive been reading about this dead celis issue, and I wonder if the HF generated by the HID system is killing the celis circuitry. I hope they last, so bitchin. I cant wait to pimp them at dusk in celis only mode.


----------



## jmikola (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (SoniqGTI)*

i picked up a set last month from ecstuning, and after about a week of use, the passenger side rings (parking lights) went out, and took the fuse with it. i traced the problem back to the lights themselves: swapped for stocks and noticed no problems, put back in the celis and proceeded to blow fuse after fuse. sent the the one headlamp back to ecs for a repair and it looks like i got the same unit back - so they must have fixed some wiring. not hid-kit related, but thought it relevant enough to post.
off-topic problem: noticed last night after weekend of rain that the headlamp they fixed is starting to get condensation on the inside (driver's side is fine). i assume this is the result of ecs opening the glass housing to fix the unit. as for a solution, will i have to get some sealant and re-seal the housing?


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (jmikola)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmikola* »_i picked up a set last month from ecstuning...

Hmmm... that's interesting. I'll point this out to TM just so they know (I am not picking on ECS, I just didn't want to quote the whole post).
If this turns out to be the case with mine, I'll be sending them back, looking for a refund, and buying something else. Other than the condensation (which almost has to be due to them being opened up), has everything else been working ok since you got them back?
Just out of curiousity... might ECS be willing to chime in with (or could you ask them) what they fixed?


_Modified by stripethree at 3:31 PM 10-10-2005_


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Update*: TM recieved my passenger side light Friday and Damian indicated that it has been sent on to Hella. He also said he will of course let me know as soon as he hears back from Hella.


----------



## jmikola (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_Other than the condensation (which almost has to be due to them being opened up), has everything else been working ok since you got them back?

EDIT: called back ecs this morning, but was told that my unit was sent back to hella for a wiring fix (regarding the parking light fuse blowing). so unfortunately, there's no specifics on what was done.
also, regarding the condensation issue, the service rep said that the lights were vented, so opening the glass housing wouldn't help much. he suggested i leave the unit out in the sun to air out and dry.


_Modified by jmikola at 12:35 PM 10-11-2005_


----------



## KKPsi1.8T (Jan 9, 2004)

my celis rings are still working properly after more than a week. i did however notice that both of my lights did mist up a bit during a rain shower. they did clear up after driving with my headlights on.


----------



## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (KKPsi1.8T)*

i've heard people in the MK4 forum say that they put those Silica Gel bags inside the headlights. (btw silica gel bags are the little bags found in shoes when you buy a new pair of shoes)
its crazy but i hear it works. personally i wouldn't do it, just let your headlights dry up over the course of the day.


----------



## nadaclue (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (KKPsi1.8T)*

Bump and subscribe.
Just got this and was told they didn't have a problem. Here's to hoping it's isolated incidences.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...12109


----------



## chavito (Feb 23, 2001)

Passenger rings out!!!
I should have waited for you guys to get your lights back before buying mine. 
ECS should stop selling these untill Hella gets their act together. Has anyone recieved a refund? I really don't want to go through the troble of sending these back and fourth, rather just get a refund. Will call ECS on monday.


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (chavito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chavito* »_Passenger rings out!!!
I should have waited for you guys to get your lights back before buying mine. 
ECS should stop selling these untill Hella gets their act together. Has anyone recieved a refund? I really don't want to go through the troble of sending these back and fourth, rather just get a refund. Will call ECS on monday.

Every time I see another one, I keep thinking, yeah, Hella, you have a great rep. for quality (no sarcasm, I'm serious), but dammit, you need to address this, fast. This is not cool that $500+ housings are failing like this. As I said, TM sent my light back to Hella and should hopefully hear back from them soon. I am anxiously awaiting the results...
:senerity now, serenity now, senerity now:
To answer your question, no one I know of has recieved a refund. It looks like one ECS customer (see above) recieved a replacement or had theirs fixed, and TM is currently working with Hella to figure out the problem and come to a resolution for their customers.


----------



## chavito (Feb 23, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

Thanks for keeping us up to date! I hesitated buying other light because of the brand, I had NO hesitation spending over $500 for the Hellas, since they are, I believe utill now the most reputable lighting company out there. I hope they come through to maintain thier image.


----------



## rawr32 (Apr 30, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*

Hey, I've been reading up on this thread because
I've been planning on buying these headlights.
Now I'm not at all savvy in the department
of electronics and wiring, but I had a thought
and felt it wouldn't hurt to throw it out there, 
since this seems to be the mystery of the year. 
Someone mentioned earlier that they thought of
disconnecting the city lights/angel eyes altogether
but realized they couldn't do this because they are
directly connected to the tail lights. Anyway, correct
me if the following doesn't make any sense, but are
those that are having problems running the 5-brake
light mod? What I mean is, is it possible that the 
extra power running into the extra brake light bulbs 
is causing the connected angel eyes to go out? 
Again, I'm not educated in this area, but it was 
just a thought.
Good luck with Hella and I hope the problem gets
fixed soon! 
Neil


----------



## Gigitt (May 26, 2004)

*Re: (rawr32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rawr32* »_Hey, I've been reading up on this thread because
I've been planning on buying these headlights.
Now I'm not at all savvy in the department
of electronics and wiring, but I had a thought
and felt it wouldn't hurt to throw it out there, 
since this seems to be the mystery of the year. 
Someone mentioned earlier that they thought of
disconnecting the city lights/angel eyes altogether
but realized they couldn't do this because they are
directly connected to the tail lights. Anyway, correct
me if the following doesn't make any sense, but are
those that are having problems running the 5-brake
light mod? What I mean is, is it possible that the 
extra power running into the extra brake light bulbs 
is causing the connected angel eyes to go out? 
Again, I'm not educated in this area, but it was 
just a thought.
Good luck with Hella and I hope the problem gets
fixed soon! 
Neil

5th brake light mod should not affect the Angel eyes... the angel eyes run off of a differnet electrical circuit. I don't know what you call them but we call them parker lights.


----------



## chavito (Feb 23, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*








Spoke to ECS today and I will be sending them back tomorrow







. They said they will check them to see if there was any damage done by myself, (All I did was plug them in and drove for exactly one week) if not they will proceed to give me a refund. They didn't mention trying to repair it.







I really like the lights though.. Maybe I'll wait a couple of months to see if Hella corrects the problem. Then order another set. These are the best looking light out there!!


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Yeah I haven't heard anything further from TM yet... either about where my replacement light is or what, if anything, they have heard from Hella...


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

i had a private giggle to myself as a 5 series bimmer drove by me with his passenger angel eye out.


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

^Nice. I would too... was it a new 5?
Heard back from TM: nothing from Hella yet.


----------



## chavito (Feb 23, 2001)

Sent mine back to ECS yesterday, Will let you know how it goes.


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

it was a newer bimmer. i went back to chicago and got my stock lights just in case i would have to swap em back on. i'm seriously debating whether or not i should take them to a shop and pay $$$ to see if they can fix it or not.
this burns me up every time i get in my car and see a reflection at night. i feel like such a tool... sorta like the guy that mounts the unpainted body kit with the NOS sticker on his civic... just incomplete and tacky.








my gf always laughs at me b/c we talked about the jerry mcguire moment i'm going to have when i have 2 sets of fully working celis rings... "oh, celis, you complete me..."


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (KKPsi1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KKPsi1.8T* »_i installed the headlights this weekend and they work fine. my beam pattern on the passenger side is a bit off. the horizontal portion of the beam, the ( _ ) in _/, is tilted slightly higher on the left than the right. has anyone else experienced this? also, my driver's side beam is pointing to a bit to the passenger side, but when i try to adjust it with the inner screw, it is actually making it go down, and not left or right. any thoughts on these issues? thanks.

incidentally, i thought that the inner screw adjusts the height of the high beam. am i wrong?


----------



## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: (yum)*

Hella and TMT should really look into this. I am not saying that either of these parties were knowingly involved in the situation, it could have been an accident in inventory and control... These units were probably CS-2 (bad run in production in need of testing before release)and got out of containment somehow. Probably just an accident.


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (golf strom)*

yeah, it's really bizarre that not a single one of the celis that failed is on the driver's side, unless i missed a posting.
i'm pretty







about the whole thing b/c the sole reason why i paid the extra cash versus going with another brand was the quality.


----------



## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: (yum)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yum* »_yeah, it's really bizarre that not a single one of the celis that failed is on the driver's side, unless i missed a posting.
i'm pretty







about the whole thing b/c the sole reason why i paid the extra cash versus going with another brand was the quality.

I have a suggestion....mention the comments I made here about the possibilty of a quality control containment failure. I would directly call Hella AG (I'm in the biz so I know the buzz words) and politely suggest that as you have a high regard for their reputation for quality this is the reason WHY you purchased the Hella product mention that quite a number of units purchased by other customers have had dodgy seals and debris in the unit housings, then simply insist that you receive a refund. Of course you will send the untis directly to Hella and they will pay shipping to the return point. 
I think they will refund your money ....oh and I wouldn't accept a repaired unit either, you bought first quality product and you didn't get what you paid for. 
Let TMT tuning and Hella sort out the financial issues between themselves.


_Modified by golf strom at 7:45 PM 10-22-2005_


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (yum)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yum* »_i'm pretty







about the whole thing b/c the sole reason why i paid the extra cash versus going with another brand was the quality.

Same here. How's that for irony. TM, as of last Thursday, hasn't heard anything further from Hella and I haven't gotten my replacement light yet either. It's apparently lost so they (TM) started to track it and said they'd send another. What else can go wrong. I seriously started to look at other options, but it sucks. I must have missed something because I can't find any other Hella made projector headlamps, and doing HIDs in reflector headlamps is not what I want to do. Even the Mk5-look lights aren't projectors. If I go with something other than Hella, the leveling motors I have are useless. Helix maybe, because supposedly those are rebadged Hellas? I don't know. ****.
Not happy.


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_Same here. How's that for irony. TM, as of last Thursday, hasn't heard anything further from Hella and I haven't gotten my replacement light yet either. It's apparently lost so they (TM) started to track it and said they'd send another. What else can go wrong. I seriously started to look at other options, but it sucks. I must have missed something because I can't find any other Hella made projector headlamps, and doing HIDs in reflector headlamps is not what I want to do. Even the Mk5-look lights aren't projectors. If I go with something other than Hella, the leveling motors I have are useless. Helix maybe, because supposedly those are rebadged Hellas? I don't know. ****.
Not happy.

the one nice thing i do have to say about the whole situation is that TM is pretty good about staying in touch despite being in Germany and they seem pretty concerned about protecting their reputation, which we all know can go in heartbeat on these boards.
i think if hella leaves us out to dry, i'm gonna try and deactivate the driver's side celis and just be happy with the HIDs.
side note: i just noticed that in the posting your f.a.w.k. is censored but not in my email notification. heh.


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Yeah, when I get the replacement, I will probably unplug the Celis connection (one of the ones I tried to bench test at) just to have the damn lights on the car before Hella figures out with the problem is. Especially with the crappy weather we've had lately I sorely miss the HIDs.


----------



## DeepFreeze (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: (stripethree)*

so no update homie?
please let us know. i was considering Hella Celis with HID kit and no fogs. but this concerns me...
i want angel eyes in my head lights. 
Quality is what i want when i spend $1000+ on my lights.


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Nope, nothing more yet. Believe me, when I get an informative email on the subject, this thread is the first place I go.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## chavito (Feb 23, 2001)

ECS recieved my lights back today, waiting to see what they come up with. I really hope they can find a problem that can be fixed! I really want them back.


----------



## Brake_Dust (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (chavito)*

I took mine apart to paint the surround and took a shot of the LED
FYI

hope you get this sorted out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## EternalMind (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (Brake_Dust)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Brake_Dust* »_I took mine apart to paint the surround and took a shot of the LED
FYI

hope you get this sorted out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

yep, I had one apart today too (only partially). It's a Lumileds Luxeon LED on a square "star" base. Either a 1W or 3W package - I didn't confirm, but I'm guessing 1W for this function.
After seeing the way the LED/heatsink mounts, and remembering that some people had issues with "intensity" matching from RH to LH, I'm thinking that some of them might not be tightened down all the way or not lined up. This would let the LED reside outside of its designed focal position and not put all the light into the light-pipe properly (i.e. dim appearance)...just something worth looking into if you've had that problem.
brakedust - did you take your lamps completely apart (lens from housing) - it looks like it in the pic? If so, how did you do it? Did you bake...and if so, how long and at what temp? Thanks for any info.


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (EternalMind)*

wow. i wish that i had half the knowledge and skill of you guys. i'm too scared to take mine apart.
to totally kick me while i'm down, my window regulator broke on me... again. so now my window is ghetto rigged and my celis is broke.


----------



## Brake_Dust (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (EternalMind)*

yup I took them competely apart......they are really easy to seperate ....all it took was 3-4 min with a heat gun and they were apart....
then I pulled the turn signal,AEs, projector...everything
I can post more pictures of the process in another thread I don't want to hi-jack this one


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

^ If you do put the instructions somewhere, please do provide a link!
Thanks!


----------



## chavito (Feb 23, 2001)

Just got word from ECS, they said they found a "LOOSE CONNECTION" tested and are working fine. Can't wait to get them back. I was going to open them up to check for any loose connections but was reluctant because of the problems that others are having. Hopefully this is the problem everyone is having. Good luck guys!!


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

^ Awesome!
Any more details you could get from ECS would be greatly apprecaited. Hope you get them back and on the car quickly!!


_Modified by stripethree at 4:05 PM 10-27-2005_


----------



## jmikola (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*

just to chime in. i believe i was first guy stripthree mentioned that sent them back to ecs for repair (it was either that or a return w/ restocking fee). my celis rings have been lit fine since, and i've had no performance problems since the repair. although, i've since come to the conclusion (with all the bad weather we've been having near jersey) that the light performance is pretty poor, despite an absolutely stellar beam pattern. i can't recall how good the stock reflectors were but i imagine they're certainly worse than this. i'll have to look into hid's soon. if any of you guys could suggest a compatible kit, i'd be much obliged.
as for problems though, i have experienced the "misting" referred to a few posts back. i had condensation in my passenger housing (the one sent back that was apparently opened for repair). ecs told me to leave them out in the sun for a day and they'll dry themselves since there are vents on the housing. i couldn't lose use of the car for a day and sun wasn't around much for the past month, so i left it in. after ~2 weeks of condensation (little water bubbles), i noticed the circular area directly in front of the projector was beginning to clear up (from heat?) and by the next day the housings were dry inside. the weather didn't get particularly warmer that day so i really can't explain how the problem solved itself.
i really only considered these after an oem hid deal went sour, but i still think these lights are completely worth the $500 spent. just an updated on my situation; hope it's of some help to one of you guys.


----------



## Brake_Dust (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (chavito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chavito* »_Just got word from ECS, they said they found a "LOOSE CONNECTION" tested and are working fine. 

awesome!


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (jmikola)*

thanks for the update... maybe the fix is just as simple as a loose connection, as many of our lights went out after shutting the hood, although i suggested to TM that perhaps my light was broken during shipping. you see, they had shipped my light with the hard plastic headlight protector they sell on their site and it was cracked. TM told me that it was impossible for a shock to disable the celis rings though.








as for HID kit... well, the main reason why I went through TM was their rep and the fact that they would install the HID and the leveling motors for me. their write up about their HID kit sold me...
i would recommend the 4500k bulbs, as i have the 6500k and they seem too blue. it was pretty hard on the eyes during long trips from boston back to my hometown of chicago. some may like them but there are certain lighting conditions that i swear my lights aren't on b/c of the lack of contrast in the lighting. if not for the fact that road signs light up 1000 times better, i sometimes can't see the road lit at all. on the open road where it's pitch black though, it's so obvious how much better HIDs are when I drive next to ppl with regular halogens.
if anyone has 4500k bulbs they wanna trade for my 6500k, i'm open.
has anyone else noticed radio distortion when the HIDs are on? i'm thinking i either need to upgrade my ground or get my lazy butt up and install the relays.


----------



## jmikola (Jul 16, 2005)

from this thread:

_Quote, originally posted by *dragon813gt* »_Don;t worry about the condensation. The reason it's forming is because the projector is vented. It gets real hot when the light is on and needs a way to cool off. They were designed this way. People are putting the little Silica(dessicant) bags that come w/ shoes into the housing. You'll have to replace this quite often though as the it won't give up the mositure once it's absorbed it.

something to consider.
yum: i'm certainly of the opinion 4500k or nothing - the rings are blue enough ^_^


----------



## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (jmikola)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmikola* »_from this thread:
something to consider.
yum: i'm certainly of the opinion 4500k or nothing - the rings are blue enough ^_^

yea i've alrady mentioned the silica gel solution.
but as for the HIDs... 4100K or 4500K or 4300K http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
blue... 6500K http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
trust me i know because i have 6000K HIDs and there is still a hint of blue. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif i still see pretty well in bad weather in my 6000Ks but i'd still prefer 4100K.
4100K or BUST!!!








and good to hear that some got theirs back and are working fine. i gotta let my buddy know about this loose connection problem. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
thanx guys


----------



## VWRETRO (Mar 16, 2005)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (1.8Twentieth)*

yeeeeeh so i just installed my HIDS to my Hella Celis, not only 5 minutes passes by and my Driver side Celis(s) turn off, this stinks. Any luck or answers? Im frustrated please hit me back if anybody gets a answer. for now I am saying screw it, I will keep my hids in and have to do with the one eyed gti


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (VWRETRO)*

congrats on being the first to have the driver's side celis go out.
did you run a relay?


----------



## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (yum)*

This issue has all the traits of a bad production run. I think that these things escaped from the factory by accident. 
CS2 containment failure at the plant during quality assurance.
Anyone that works at Hella care to comment on this observation?
Mistakes Do happen just be honest.


----------



## Alaska (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (golf strom)*

so are these the lighst being sold by TKO moterworks? I was considering buying them for my VR6 that I just bought 2 days ago (which I love btw - newbie here), but now rethinking it due to all the neg about HID kits in them. NEED a hella of a lot of light for dark Alaskan nights here. What projectors should I look for that work with HID's then? stay away from ebay?








please help a newb out btw search is down I tried.








p.s. here is a link to pic of the 2001 GTI VR6 I just bought on Friday so in love with her!
http://www.alaskamotorsports.c...t=500
sorry don't know how to upload pics


----------



## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (Alaska)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Alaska* »_so are these the lighst being sold by TKO moterworks? I was considering buying them for my VR6 that I just bought 2 days ago (which I love btw - newbie here), but now rethinking it due to all the neg about HID kits in them. NEED a hella of a lot of light for dark Alaskan nights here. What projectors should I look for that work with HID's then? stay away from ebay?








please help a newb out btw search is down I tried.








p.s. here is a link to pic of the 2001 GTI VR6 I just bought on Friday so in love with her!
http://www.alaskamotorsports.c...t=500
sorry don't know how to upload pics

I suggest you do a custom retrofit... meaning you take some HIDs projectors from another car like Audi projectors, BMW projectors, Mercedes projectors and so forth; and you try to put them into your stock headlights. So basically you're making custom headlights w/projectors. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif This will take at least $500.00 and it will need some patience. Many people have done it on this forum so just use the search engine.
IMO, the light output will be way better then the projectors on the HELLA Celis Headlights.
Have you seen the beam pattern the Audis, BMWs & Mercedes put out? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Way better then anything out there.








If you need the parts to do this, including the HID kit, go to http://www.hidplanet.com
They sell nothing but the best projectors for you to do this project.
This is only a suggestion.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

No updates from Hella via TM yet.
I asked about a loose connection:

_Quote »_The issue has nothing to do with connections being loose, the headlight we got back from you had what looked like a fried transistor not a loose connection. Once Hella investigates more I will get back to you with any and all info.


So I don't know. At this point, I don't care what it was, I just want a working set of lights. Meh.
On the slim to none chance that anyone from Hella happens to see this, please hurry up.


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## Gigitt (May 26, 2004)

http://www.hidplanet.com/
LOL someones been hammering this site!

Error:
Bandwidth Limit Exceeded
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.
Apache/1.3.33 Server at http://www.hidplanet.com Port 80


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

are these defective lights only from ECS and TMtuning?
TKO doesn't sell these lights..


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## Alaska (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (actng)*

ya thats what I just relized after I did more reading with my newd arse. I really want some projectors for the winter time which is already here and I can't afford the down time of fabbing my own or real know and tools. I had emailed TKO last night about their lights but I think the hella e codes may be the best route from what one member was saying anybody else agree that do alot of night driving?


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (actng)*


_Quote, originally posted by *actng* »_are these defective lights only from ECS and TMtuning?
TKO doesn't sell these lights..

No, not at all. Its not only these companies that have received these bad units.
And No, TKO doesn't sell them but I am going to buy the HELIX look-a-like EURO HID headlights that they sell. And I'm going put some better projectors in those headlights. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Way easier, eventhough those HELIX units come already with bosch halogen projectors http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif since I'm gonna put HIDs then I'm also gonna change the projectors to HID projectors. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Alaska (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*

dang who knew this projector thing would be soo difficult!?
My buddy has a Subaru SVX and just put in a HID kit of ebay in his stock projector housing- WAY BRIGHTER and fairly tight cut off from what I saw.
Part of me just wants to go the same route and buy some look a like TKO projectors off ebay with a HID kit from ebay as well.
UGH so impatient and want HID's as days are increasingly darker here.
dammit man-
someone make me some nice HID projectors !


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## chavito (Feb 23, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

Well, Just got them back and opened them up right away! the first thing I noticed is some hot glue on the outside covering up two small holes, it seems that they drilled out a green rectangular piece that was riveted on to the housing and relocated it. (Can't tell of it was replaced) It normally rests on the bottom of the housing, now it is wire ties to the top?. If this was the cause then I am going to also relocate the one on the drivers side, There is no proof that condensate either did or didn't cause the problem but since I hear it is normal to have condensate,







then relocating it to the top can only help the situation. If someone wants to post pictures up I can send them to you. I hope you all luck in your ordeal, Hope can get your situations solved as soon as possible! Thanks ECS for the prompt turnaround.
Pete


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

No further updates from Hella and I have no yet recieved my replacement light from TM.
Can you say 'irritated'?


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: (stripethree)*

frig i want these lights!!!!! someone please fix them fast...!!!! i want to buy them but not when they have a 50/50 chance of breaking.


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## dckeener (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*

This still hasn't been resolved? I relly want a pair too but def want to wait till you get this fixed to see what happens.


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## VeeDubbinJetta91 (Aug 19, 2002)

*Re: (Alaska)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Alaska* »_
dammit man-
someone make me some nice HID projectors !









already been done...its called oem hid


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## VeeDubbinJetta91 (Aug 19, 2002)

*Re: (Alaska)*


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Finally got my replacement yesterday and put the lights on the car, but not before disabling the rings by disconnecting the power wire

(Red/brown pair near the bottom, red is power)
Did that just to be safe, I wanted the lights on the car, I've missed the HIDs/beam pattern, but did not want to risk having another light fail. Hopefully Hella will get back to TM and have something figure out soon.


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

can someone please summarize under what conditions did these lights fail? I don't plan on putting HIDs in these lights so if it's just the HIDs/ballasts that are screwing up the celis, it won't concern me and i'm going to go buy a set tomorrow!


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: (actng)*

It sounds like it is specifically related to the HID issue and/or poor quality of the Hella units themselves.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

actng - read through the thread... the conditions vary, HIDs, non HID... seems to be isolated to only the versions with fog lights. Still waiting on Hella to see exactly what happened.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Quick favor:
A couple of people have recieved replacement or repaired lights from ECS and maybe some other places... if you have, did you install the lights again and have you had any problems since? I saw one persons post about his returned from ECS and he said there have been no issues... still the case?
My replacement is fine, but like I said, I have the rings disconnected and I've been debating what to do... nothing from Hella yet and I really don't want to take the chance of having this happen again.


_Modified by stripethree at 10:07 AM 11-14-2005_


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

_Quote »_We are still waiting for a answer from Hella, Mike is persistent in sending at least 2 emails and a phone call a week so hopefully we can pressure them into moving a bit quicker.

That's from am email Damian just sent me. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to TMTuning. Hopefully Hella will get moving and we can figure this out.


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## chavito (Feb 23, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

I installed mine about two weeks ago now and no problems so far. I did relocate the rectangular green piece to the top of the lights in case the condensate has any effect on it, but I haven't had any condensate either. I also used heat shrink over all of the connectors to ensure they don't become loose or touch each other. 
I think it doesn't really matter, eventually you will connect the rings if they are going to go out you'll just have to send them back again. I don't think it's one thing inpartcular that is cousing the problem. It seems like everyone is having too many different problems. One thing for sure, I'll never connect HIDs to these lights, That seems to be a constant for problems to come.
Good Luck!!
Keep us posted!


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (chavito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chavito* »_I think it doesn't really matter, eventually you will connect the rings if they are going to go out you'll just have to send them back again.

Which is on the top of my list of 'things I don't want to do again', hence, why I have them disconnected for now

_Quote, originally posted by *chavito* »_One thing for sure, I'll never connect HIDs to these lights, That seems to be a constant for problems to come.

That's the other thing, I do have HIDs... and for me, HIDs > angel eyes, so that's the way it is for now.
The wait continues...


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: (stripethree)*

the thing that makes these lights cool are the angel eyes... if you have to disconnect them then I think it's prolly better to just spend money on the projectors without the angel eyes which are cheaper.
c'mon hella pls fix this. i just want them to work out of the box with no HID drop in so I can go buy a set and install them.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (actng)*

Does anybody know if the projectors in the HELLA Celis Headlights are Halogen Projectors *OR* HID Projectors?


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## chavito (Feb 23, 2001)

Halogen Projectors, H7 bulbs


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (chavito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chavito* »_Halogen Projectors, H7 bulbs

Just curious. Thanx. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
To me, the problem def. has to be the the Drop-In HID Kit w/the HELLA Celis Headlights w/Fogs that are causing something in the headlights to go bad. Maybe that combo doesn't go well together.
But you know what they say, "once you go HID, you can never go back".








Can someone try doing this w/the HELLA Celis Headlights w/Fogs...
Install your halogen bulbs and reconnect the Angel Eyes. And if the Angel Eyes go bad then it def. has to be the headlights.
But if your Angel Eyes do not go out, when you installed your halogen bulbs; and the Angel Eyes go out when you install your HID kit then your problem is def. HID related.
just a suggestion.










_Modified by sleepygti28 at 9:28 PM 11-16-2005_


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_To me, the problem def. has to be the the Drop-In HID Kit w/the HELLA Celis Headlights w/Fogs that are causing something in the headlights to go bad. Maybe that combo doesn't go well together.

From September 15 after I pretty much asked that same question:

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I had given some thought to the HID aspect but considering that of the 4 people having this problem 2 have HID and the other 2 do not have HID so I dont think is has anything to do with the HID aspect. Plus if that were the case it would cause a problem evenly on both headlights not just one side and it would be an instantaneous problem. Plus we did extensive testing with the HID kits on all the lights that we sell to make sure that it's compatible. We have HID kits on many other lights that use Celis and no problem linking the 2 has ever been sighted.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_
From September 15 after I pretty much asked that same question:


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
then *these* HELLA Headlights are just CRAP!








End of Story!








This is ridiculous though, I feel for you all and I hope the issue gets resolved in a timely manner. Good Luck guys.


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_To me, the problem def. has to be the the Drop-In HID Kit w/the HELLA Celis Headlights w/Fogs that are causing something in the headlights to go bad. Maybe that combo doesn't go well together.

Perhaps the high voltage used to start the HIDs is causing failure in the LED circuitry. It does look like they are using some pretty fancy LEDs in those headlights.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (dennisgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dennisgli* »_
Perhaps the high voltage used to start the HIDs is causing failure in the LED circuitry. It does look like they are using some pretty fancy LEDs in those headlights.

I completely agree. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif The start up of the HIDs must def screw somethin up!
I think they do use LEDs(1W or 3W like previously mentioned) but after seeing some pics, its somewhat fancy LEDs on a star based circuit board.







Weird lookin'








But good luck, like I said, just go with Halogen bulbs! These are not even HID projectors!







I'm jk!








Good Luck again guys!


_Modified by sleepygti28 at 1:06 PM 11-18-2005_


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_But good luck, like I said, just go with Halogen bulbs! They are not even HID projectors!







I'm jk!









Don't you have an HID kit in the stock halogen reflectors at the moment?


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_
Don't you have an HID kit in the stock halogen reflectors at the moment?
















Yes... yes... I do!








But soon they will be in HID projectors my friend with some wanabe lookin OEM HID R32 headlights w/*HID projectors*.


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## NY 04 GTI VR6 (Jan 18, 2005)

What’s up guys 
IV installed HID set in my hella celis headlights. The HID lights are in for about three weeks and still going strong and looking good. Now before I installed the lights I removed my lights and opened them to access all the wiring. I notice the spaghetti of wires touching the projector reflector and moved them away. Just to be safe I taped them to the bottom of the headlight unit. Now that all the wiring was out of the way and all the connections wore secure IV proceeded to insert the HID bulbs where it triggered another question. How was I going to runt he HID bulb wires to the ballast with the back covers on? So I drilled 1” hole in the back panel of the light covers where I places a rubber seal with two holes for the bulb wires. HID’s are working great and I haven’t had any problems with the angel easy. Now very important to use two relays for the ballasts and tap the trigger before the main plug for the headlight and tape up the H7 plug for the stock bulb inside the headlight. So now we got all the wiring inside the light fixture nice and secure and away from the hot projector reflectors. We wore able to keep the back covers on. And we made a dedicated power line for each HID ballast witch will provide a normal current in the headlight unit. Now my only problem is my lights fog up really bad since day one on a rainy day. I haven’t had much time to look into the problem but I realized that the fans from the radiator might be blowing hot moist air into the headlight unit thru the inner vent hole that’s on the headlight unit. I will try to close one of them up “one closer to radiator” to see if the moisture problem will be fixed. Hope this can help with some of the HID problems some of you guys had.


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## NY 04 GTI VR6 (Jan 18, 2005)

my lights are fogged up too


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (NY 04 GTI VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NY 04 GTI VR6* »_What’s up guys 
IV installed HID set in my hella celis headlights. The HID lights are in for about three weeks and still going strong and looking good. Now before I installed the lights I removed my lights and opened them to access all the wiring. I notice the spaghetti of wires touching the projector reflector and moved them away. Just to be safe I taped them to the bottom of the headlight unit. Now that all the wiring was out of the way and all the connections wore secure IV proceeded to insert the HID bulbs where it triggered another question. How was I going to runt he HID bulb wires to the ballast with the back covers on? So I drilled 1” hole in the back panel of the light covers where I places a rubber seal with two holes for the bulb wires. HID’s are working great and I haven’t had any problems with the angel easy. Now very important to use two relays for the ballasts and tap the trigger before the main plug for the headlight and tape up the H7 plug for the stock bulb inside the headlight. So now we got all the wiring inside the light fixture nice and secure and away from the hot projector reflectors. We wore able to keep the back covers on. And we made a dedicated power line for each HID ballast witch will provide a normal current in the headlight unit. Now my only problem is my lights fog up really bad since day one on a rainy day. I haven’t had much time to look into the problem but I realized that the fans from the radiator might be blowing hot moist air into the headlight unit thru the inner vent hole that’s on the headlight unit. I will try to close one of them up “one closer to radiator” to see if the moisture problem will be fixed. Hope this can help with some of the HID problems some of you guys had. 


thanx for the info but we already know all this. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
and i suggest you to *NOT* cover up the vent holes in the headlights or else you will only make matters worst. if there are vented holes then they must be there for a certain reason so *do not cover them up*.
some people have put the silica gel bags, the small bead bags you find inside a pair of new shoes, and have left them in the headlights to soak up any moisture what so ever. its safe but you gotta keep on replacin them.
but your headlights look good, even w/the moisture.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*

i believe it's the HIDs that's causing the misting since the HIDs operate at a higher temperature.
I've seen a set of unmodified Hella Celis Rings running on the halogens that it came with. No problems whatsoever...


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## www.Euro-Cullen.com (May 3, 2005)

*Re: (actng)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_
and i suggest you to *NOT* cover up the vent holes in the headlights or else you will only make matters worst. if there are vented holes then they must be there for a certain reason so *do not cover them up*.


Correct, moisture inside headlights is one of the greatest misconceptions within the headlight swap/upgrade realms.
Moisture is ALWAYS (with the exception of actual waterbuild up as in an aquarium!) moisture wanting to get OUT and is trapped inside, not moisture "getting in". It already is IN there trying to get out.
What happens is the air (read moisture %) of the air "trapped" inside is of such "contrast" that there is moisture buildup inside, this is a huge problem in more extreme climates where inside temps (where work on the car usually is done) and outside temps are of great difference.
The IDEAL would be to have the headlights stay in the same enviroment (with open caps) as the car would be used or in average conditions, naturally excluding such conditions that are extreme such as huge humidity or low temps.
Bottomline is you are looking at a greenhouse effect with moisture getting out, true some have tried various tricks such as additional breathing holes, the problem with those is they will usually let it real water over time.

_Quote, originally posted by *actng* »_i believe it's the HIDs that's causing the misting since the HIDs operate at a higher temperature.
I've seen a set of unmodified Hella Celis Rings running on the halogens that it came with. No problems whatsoever...


Another common misconception that HID setups run at higher temperatures, when in fact they run at LOWER temps. Halogen bulbs as in this case H7 are 55watt and HID bulbs are 35watt.
The HID bulbs run at significantly lower temps, you can think of it as comparing your "normal" bulb at home (which you will not be able to touch after a few minutes) with daylight tubes which work on the same discharge principle as HIDs, its gas that burns in HIDs not an actual filament as in Halogens.
So as for the moisture look for the cause in the installation conditions.
As for LEDs as used in these CELIS setups as inveted by Hella, LEDs usually do not giveup unless they are "fed" with incorrect voltage(s).
How many have already exprienced this now? 
Were the sets all from the pre release batches that were sold early on or?
There were several batches relaeased by Hella Germany to various shows and demo purposes, never intended for resale as they were BETA units.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (www.Euro-Cullen.com)*


_Quote, originally posted by *www.Euro-Cullen.com* »_Were the sets all from the pre release batches that were sold early on or? There were several batches relaeased by Hella Germany to various shows and demo purposes, never intended for resale as they were BETA units.

That's the second time you have said that and I will repeat my previous response: show me proof. The rest of your post was great, very helpful, but why you chose to take a shot at other distrubtors I will not speculate, but it's unnecessary at this point.
I seriously doubt ECS and TM would do this, and both have had situations were customers that bought these lights had them malfunction. If it was a bad batch that was released by accident, that's Hella's fault, not the distributors. I don't think that ECS or TM would put their reputations on the line in that manner just to ship a few extra units out, and I also don't think that TM would be bending over backwards trying to help figure out the problem if they knowingly shipped bad lights. I will polietly suggest you stop implying that other distributors shipped lights they shouldn't have until you show proof.
On another note, as I said, TM is still sending Hella 2 emails a week and giving them a call at least once a week. I will email them on Monday to see if there's any progress.


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## www.Euro-Cullen.com (May 3, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*

We are NOT refering to any retailers they might not be aware of what happened between them and the factory, there are several steps between the retail sales and the factory level of things. 
Hella Europe doesn't sell directly to retailers, its all done through a well developed distribution network.
If this was a matter of a batch from the factory or supplier of parts the qty would be in the hundreds/thousands, the batches run are huge!
Everyone who had this issue where they modified units?


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: (stripethree)*

Yes, I have to believe that these units that are in question may very well have been out of spec units that were in quarantine (CS-2) and were supposed to be either reworked and then sent out or discarded if not repairable. My guess is that an accident happend where pallets of these units were shipped. Probably a mix up at the final inspection point at the Hella plant.


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## www.Euro-Cullen.com (May 3, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_would be bending over backwards trying to help figure out the problem if they knowingly shipped bad lights. 

....iss still sending Hella 2 emails a week and giving them a call at least once a week. I will email them on Monday to see if there's any progress.

You actually have answered your own questions here. Since there are attempts to get a reply from Hella Europe (or the distributor someone is dealing with) it is obvious that Hella has NOT at this point acknowledged any issue as such.
This is part of the retail business esp. to NA customers to please the customer at any cost, since it is less costly to replace a unit than deal with the consequences of not doing so. 
If a retailer is fortunate the 'next in the chain' might reimburse him as they have a % less to loose and so on.
Having have worked a decade with Supply Chain management and Quality Assurance on factory level and visited a wide variety of factories including Hella supplying factories worldwide there are a few things to take into consideration here:
A) From Hella Europe's point of view this is all GREY MARKET sales, why? Because Hella has a NA setup but they sell DOT/SAE products, hence these and all the other Ecode products should never have made it to the USA, warranty and such related questions on grey market area is always....grey area. Also as to date I have not heard any reports of these kind of issues from customers in Europe.
B) In order for the factory to raise some 'redflags' on this issue this would have to be bigger than a handful (even that?) of units. Please refer to such tools as AQL level and SIX Sigma etc etc that are used by the factories when the assure quality out to the market. Please keep in mind that one BATCH is hundreds and hundreds of units!


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (www.Euro-Cullen.com)*


_Quote, originally posted by *www.Euro-Cullen.com* »_Since there are attempts to get a reply from Hella Europe (or the distributor someone is dealing with) it is obvious that Hella has NOT at this point acknowledged any issue as such.

As it is stated in the thread, a light with the malfunction was sent back to TMTuning and then forwarded to Hella in order to determine what the problem was. This is what I am waiting on. Just because they have not responded and/or finished testing the light get does not yet absolve them of liability and further more, that also does not place any responsibility for the malfunction on the distributor at this point.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Still nada from Hella (via TM).


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: (stripethree)*

BUMP- A buddy just installed some on his .:R, and I'm anxious to hear more; are all the defective bunch "foglights" versions?
Seems to be a lot to do with HIDs but some aren't...?
Very curious. I like the idea of getting inside the lights to make sure all wiring is out of the way before installing.


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## squishy12 (Apr 10, 2001)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (1.8Twentieth)*

anyoen got some light output pictures of these? i'm hoping they are on par with my buddies new a3, his lights are insane!! looking for pics of the projection onto the road, thanks!


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## Gigitt (May 26, 2004)

Here are my Mk3 Celis testing the LHD vs RHD light pattern with stock shield cutoff lever.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (squishy12)*


_Quote, originally posted by *squishy12* »_anyoen got some light output pictures of these? i'm hoping they are on par with my buddies new a3, his lights are insane!! looking for pics of the projection onto the road, thanks!

the light output is amazing with Halogen Bulbs. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
but with an HID kit... its not that great.








keep in mind that these use halogen projectors and *not* hid projectors.
but pics, someone should have some. try searching, i know people have posted up pic in the past. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_but with an HID kit... its not that great.









I beg to differ. I haven't been able to compare side by side with anyone who has OEM HIDs or even 'HID projectors' but either way, the output with these lights with an HID drop in kit (I have a 6000k kit) is great. The cutoff is crisp and the output is fantastic. I don't have any pics but I can maybe take some later this week.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_
I beg to differ. I haven't been able to compare side by side with anyone who has OEM HIDs or even 'HID projectors' but either way, the output with these lights with an HID drop in kit (I have a 6000k kit) is great. The cutoff is crisp and the output is fantastic. I don't have any pics but I can maybe take some later this week.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

the comparison is not worth it! OEM HIDs vs Aftermarket HELLA Celis Headlights... Hands down, OEM wins!








i've seen the output when you had them on buddy. cutoff is *crisp* but output is still kind of...








Jeff, i know you hate me right now!


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_output is still kind of...









Heh, no really, it isn't. OEMs are the best out there, that is widely agreed, and yes, their output is better than what I have, but I will argue that it's because the OEMs are somewhere in the 4000k range whereas I have 6000k HIDs. As you go higher in temp, you get more blue/UV emission which 'looks' cool but, blue light is more readily absorbed/scattered by moisture. This is also why fog lights often have a yellowish tint to them, which is absorbed or scattered even less. (Props to Pdub for the lighting explanation via AIM... I suppose electrical engineers are good for somethin'







). I don't think it has as much to do with the housings, if anything at all.
Speaking of which, since I can't find one anywhere via Google or anything else, can someone find me a comparison or explanation of 'halogen projectors' vs. 'HID projectors'... while I can understand there may be slight variations from company to company on projector designs, I'm skeptical of argument that there are specific projectors for halogen lights vs. HID lights.
And, on topic, I still have heard nothing else from Hella... and I honestly am beginning to wonder if it was just a bad batch of lights that slid past quality control. Over Christmas when I have access to my parents garage I think I just might hook the rings up again and see what happens. I also have some '2500k' (in quotes because they are really coated, not true 2500k) halogen fog bulbs to throw in and see what they look like.


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*

FYI - i have not heard from TM either. I sent them an email earlier this week.
as far as beam pattern, I can't say that I know what OEM HIDs look like, but after driving a rental around for a week, it's like lighting nirvana getting back behind the wheel of my GTI. the beam is bright, great cut off. i don't know how much better OEM could be, but these are pretty noice. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_Finally got my replacement yesterday and put the lights on the car, but not before disabling the rings by disconnecting the power wire

(Red/brown pair near the bottom, red is power)
Did that just to be safe, I wanted the lights on the car, I've missed the HIDs/beam pattern, but did not want to risk having another light fail. Hopefully Hella will get back to TM and have something figure out soon.

When you disconnected the celis, did you have to do anything special with the wiring? I want to pull the wires on my driver's side set. Are there easy connections that I can just pull apart? Thanks.


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Just pull the connection apart that I describe in the picture the red/brown wire pair near the bottom is for the Celis rings. The red wire is power so I just disconnected that one. It didn't take a whole lot of force, I did use some needlenose pilers to get into the small area though.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

just to be completely sure i don't muck this up.
you say to just pull apart the red connection and to leave the brown intact, right?








thanks.
i just got an email back from TM. basically, Hella says there ain't nothin wrong with them, so it must be me.








here it is:
Hello James,
thank you for your email.
"Based on the information that we got from Hella I have to tell you that there is no problem with the headlights itself. I have returned 2 headlights to the manufacturer and they checked it. They told me that there is no similar problem with the Celis rings with any German customer. Maybe there is a discrepancy between the US spec. wiring and the German spec. We have tried to figure out what happens, but I have to tell you as well that we were not able to find a failure. We tried different voltages, but the Celis was always working. Usually Hella helps all out if something goes wrong with their products, for this reason I assume they were really not able to figure out what happens.
I apologize for the inconvenience and for not can tell you something more positive.
If you have any further questions feel free to contact us anytime.
Best regards
Mike"


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (yum)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yum* »_just to be completely sure i don't muck this up.
you say to just pull apart the red connection and to leave the brown intact, right?








thanks.

Yup, you can pull the brown as well, but it's the ground, so you don't need to. Pull red only or pull both.

_Quote, originally posted by *yum* »_i just got an email back from TM. basically, Hella says there ain't nothin wrong with them, so it must be me.









I'll go on the assumption that the other light they mention sending back was mine, which TM indicates had a blown transistor. That 'explanation' by Hella seems lacking, honestly. After three months, it doesn't even seem like they can figure out what happened to the light, even if it was an install problem... I would expect more. From that email, it barley sounds like they looked at the lights sent back and focused more on trying to 'break' another one to duplicate the problem. Hmm.
Great. So not only are we out whatever extra money fronted for shipping the broken light back but now we have a light that potentially could fail again, and we're SOL. I guess there's nothing left to do but hook 'em up and see what happens. If they blow again then I'll deal with it. Blower.


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (yum)*

Well mine show up today from parts4euro.com, and my car is due outta the shop soon from my "hit by a drunk" night... so I'll let you all know if I have anything come up.


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

well not sure if this is good progress but it's still progress nonetheless. please report your findings everyone!


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## pwellen (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*

Jeff is largely correct, but I'll make one comment on what he said about OEM vs Aftermarket HIDs and conversions. The color temperature does play a critical role in all this (and Jeff is right about the scattering and/or absorption of blue light by moisture in the air), but that can be changed by selecting a different temperature bulb. I have no experience with aftermarket kits or HIDs, so I can't comment on the quality of the electronics or housings, but these are also crucially important to the performance of the system. A low-quality ballast won't give you as good a spark, which affects the warm-up period of the bulbs. Cheap supplies or coverters can fluctuate the voltage delivered to the bulbs which affects their steady-state performance as well. If you buy a cheap aftermarket kit (not saying the Hella's are cheap) you will get poor performance compared to a properly designed, OEM setup. That's all.
And yes, EE's are good for something, even if I did almost kill my roommate by wiring the ceiling fan wrong.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Hooked them back up today... bllllooooowwwwer.
Passenger side light works great now, shining brightly. Driver's side light though when I hooked it back up, just didn't shine as bright, as I thought might have been the case even before I sent the original passenger light back. Was fiddling with other stuff from time to time on the car for a good three hours today, checkin the lights from time to time, even had them on during some short trips, and they were fine, minus the difference in output. Leave my parents house to come home (~12 miles) and the driver's side rings are out when I get home.
Furhermore, the person who designed these housings, should be fired. Changing the fog light bulb on the passenger side is insane, there is 0 clearence. What should have taken 5 minutes took a half hour, and this is with the light off the car. And the lack of any extra wire slack on the inside of the light for certain connections is ridiculous.
This whole saga is enough for me to never buy angel eye headlights again. Plug and play my ass.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Oh, yeah, and I bench tested the driver's side with a fresh 9v battery and the results didn't change, still dim.


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## pwellen (Jun 26, 2002)

Well, if it's solid state lighting in the Celis rings, then not having enough voltage would keep them from lighting. Try with 12V or 14V. If they work with 14V, then you know that you're not getting enough voltage to the rings.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Passenger rings still work like a charm, but now my driver's rear parking light and bumper marker went out. Popped the fuse. Replaced it with another 5, popped again just by turning on the city lights. Same with a 7.5 and 10.
Electrical issues are fun. I just hope the driver's rings didn't pop or anything.


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: (stripethree)*

Man I'm sorry to hear this.








I installed mine on Christmas eve, no HID drop-in kit, no rheo-stat kit, but I did have to wire up the foglight wiring harness to my switch and the headlights....
*knocks on wood*
...so far so good... I'll check back in a couple more weeks...
...could the little LED that lights the rings be in backwards, I know LED's only work when plugged in with the correct polarity... sorry, longshot, I know...


_Modified by R32DubGirl at 4:14 PM 12-29-2005_


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (R32DubGirl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32DubGirl* »_...could the little LED that lights the rings be in backwards, I know LED's only work when plugged in with the correct polarity... sorry, longshot, I know...

Nope, driver's side was dim before... then went out.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

I really think at this point that I just got a bad set... I should have sent both back instead of just one, but the other one... I had nothing to compare to so I figured it was working fine.... figured wrong.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

sorry jeff.
but to compensate for the lights you better have a good new years eve!
meaning... get plastered!!!!!!!!
lol


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## pwellen (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*

jeff, like we discussed earlier:
- swap out the bad unit with the stock unit and see if the fuse still blows. no need to actually remove the new headlight, just connect the old one. if it works without blowing a fuse, you know the short circuit is in the new headlight, not in the wiring. if it still blows, then you just found out your harness sucks








- It seems like the short could've been a long time coming. Since the unit started out dim then eventually shut off, suggests that you didn't have full power going to the LED, but enough to turn it 'on'. Soon, the short circuit got worse and diverted all current (power) from the LED through the short, and blew a fuse as the resistance dropped and current shot up.
capesce?


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_sorry jeff.
but to compensate for the lights you better have a good new years eve!
meaning... get plastered!!!!!!!!
lol









...good idea!!







Here's one on me, because after all, EVERYTHING appears dim when plastered!


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (R32DubGirl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32DubGirl* »_
...good idea!!







Here's one on me, because after all, EVERYTHING appears dim when plastered!









oh and be sure to take a cab and not the R.


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## kiz88 (Oct 31, 2004)

*Re:*

I feel for all you guys having this Celis problem, I want these headlights as well, but this problem would drive me insane, has there been any update from TM or Hella? Was it just a bad batch or is there a problem with the lights internally?


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Re: (kiz88)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kiz88* »_I feel for all you guys having this Celis problem, I want these headlights as well, but this problem would drive me insane, has there been any update from TM or Hella? Was it just a bad batch or is there a problem with the lights internally?

so far, all the late people that bought these headlights haven't had any problems. including the ones who have Fogs because the problem seems to be surrounding the Headlights w/Fogs.
so if you buy a pair of headlights now, i think you should be fine. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
the thing is, sorry to say it Jeff, but there was a batch of pre-production Headlights that were already being SOLD in the U.S. and they had to be taken back because there was a Headlight Housing problem... 
don't believe me, ask Sorat, he was one of the few that already bought them in states but had to send them back to TMTuning. because there was something wrong with the housing and he had to wait another extra couple of months till they were released again and all the bugs were worked out.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Re: (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_don't believe me, ask Sorat, he was one of the few that already bought them in states but had to send them back to TMTuning. because there was something wrong with the housing and he had to wait another extra couple of months till they were released again and all the bugs were worked out

So let me get this straight, TM took his set back and replaced them with an entirely new set? When did this happen? And who admitted there was a problem with the housings, Hella or TM?


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_
So let me get this straight, TM took his set back and replaced them with an entirely new set? When did this happen? And who admitted there was a problem with the housings, Hella or TM?

well he had to send them back. he called Damien and he told him about the problem and Damien said something like "sure just send both back and we'll replace them with new headlight units". then Damien later on sent Sorat an e-mail, told him that there actually might be some sort of recall on the headlights.
but this was awhile back, ever since last year when they were first supposed to come out, only some of them were sent out but they had to be stop shipment of them to customers right away.
Hella admitted the problems with the housing and sent an e-mail to there suppliers including "Cullen", i assume, so i'm guessing you still might have at least one defective headlight, most likely the one you didn't send TMTuning.








but i have a question, are the headlights *somehow* connected in conjunction with each other because of the Angel Eyes?















meaning somewhat like this...








are the headlights wired up like that and then connected to the battery?


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Re: (www.Euro-Cullen.com)*

ignore this post... slight altercation with Cullen had happened here but there's nothin left to say.










_Modified by sleepygti28 at 9:19 PM 1-2-2006_


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: Re: (sleepygti28)*

but i have a question, are the headlights *somehow* connected in conjunction with each other because of the Angel Eyes?















meaning somewhat like this...








are the headlights wired up like that and then connected to the battery?[/QUOTE]
I'm no expert but I believe this is how mine were installed (I paid someone to do it). Maybe this will give someone a clue to figure out this problem: When I turn on the HIDs, my radio reception degrades about 50%. So, what is a clear station will have noise when the HIDs are on. This doesn't occur with the high beams, fogs or my one working Celis ring. I've been told this may be a grounding issue but I've been too stacked with work to sort this out.
Also, I have a set of leveling motors installed that do not work. I tapped the power, control and ground from the headlights directly. Again, I know little about electrical work so I'm not sure if it was a bad install on my part or that there is a short in my headlights that is causing the motors not to work.
Ideas?
on a side note: i cannot fuggin believe that your driver's side is now out! did you contact TM again?


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Re: (yum)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yum* »_Also, I have a set of leveling motors installed that do not work. I tapped the power, control and ground from the headlights directly. Again, I know little about electrical work so I'm not sure if it was a bad install on my part or that there is a short in my headlights that is causing the motors not to work.
Ideas?
on a side note: i cannot fuggin believe that your driver's side is now out! did you contact TM again?

Try this for the leveling: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2298712
Yes, I sent TM an email, but they are short staffed until January 8th and thus, I presume this is wh I have no response just yet.
I'm very unhappy.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_
I'm very unhappy.

... he said in a very calm/cool manor before turning into the Hulk.


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: (yum)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yum* »_but i have a question, are the headlights *somehow* connected in conjunction with each other because of the Angel Eyes?















meaning somewhat like this...








are the headlights wired up like that and then connected to the battery?

I'm no expert but I believe this is how mine were installed (I paid someone to do it). Maybe this will give someone a clue to figure out this problem: When I turn on the HIDs, my radio reception degrades about 50%. So, what is a clear station will have noise when the HIDs are on. This doesn't occur with the high beams, fogs or my one working Celis ring. I've been told this may be a grounding issue but I've been too stacked with work to sort this out.
[/QUOTE]
Well with mine, everything was plug n play, no different than stock (besides having to add a fog harness







simple n' plug n' play, but it woulda been nice to have come with them in the first place! ).
Stripethree man keep us posted.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2381502



















_Modified by R32DubGirl at 8:49 PM 1-9-2006_


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

they're lookin good.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Looking good Jules, glad they were no trouble to you.
I sent TM emails on the 3rd, and the 8th. Their site says they are short staffed until the 8th, and I will chalk it up to that as to why I have not recieved a response yet. 
I'm curious... where did the other people that had this issue disappear to? I know Thierry's friend got replacements and one guy got a replacement from ECS, but where's the other 4-5 people that posted up with this problem... find a solution? say fuggit and go a different route?


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

i'm so far into the fuggit camp right now. to make matters more sour, i was looking at a friend's set up from umnitza: $100 kit, gas filled lighting vs LED and no problems... they are so much brighter than the LED units and so much cheaper. Makes me wonder what I was thinking when I got these dam Hella units when I could have frankensteined another set of lights...


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## Foxtrot 3 (Feb 22, 2004)

*Re: (yum)*

I have been watching this thread with considerable interest since I really like the look of these lights. With all the reported problems though, I think I might bag this idea and go MK V with some Hella fogs in the bumper. 
Good luck to those of you with problems. I hope you get them fixed up.


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: (yum)*

Sorry to hear everyone's having problems still...







My link above is updated with beam patterns if anyone needs 'em. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2381502

Stripe three- can you get a refund and get 'em through parts4euro? I had no problem going through them....?


_Modified by R32DubGirl at 10:36 AM 1-11-2006_


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (R32DubGirl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32DubGirl* »_can you get a refund and get 'em through parts4euro? I had no problem going through them....?

I'm still waiting to hear from TM again. If anyone ever tells me I'm impatient, I'm going to have them read this thread. For those keeping store at home I got these lights on August 10, 2005 and they not worked 100% as advertised since day 1. Five months.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_
I'm still waiting to hear from TM again. If anyone ever tells me I'm impatient, I'm going to have them read this thread. For those keeping store at home I got these lights on August 10, 2005 and they not worked 100% as advertised since day 1. Five months.

and i'm a witness!!!!








i remember when you gottem, i was so anxious to see them at the GTG then whenyou turned them on and one didn't work... my whole world crumbled before my eyes.








good luck Jeff http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_We have some very interesting information about the lights that I will get back to you on as soon as we finish some final testing.. This may clear up everything once and for all. 

I hope it's true. They didn't say anything about a recall, but I sent him some long messages, so maybe he missed the question. I asked again and I'll see.


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

woah!







sounds intrigueing.
heh. about the long emails, he seemed to only answer a few of my questions in my long emails too.
thanks for disseminating the info


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Re: (sleepygti28)*

Just got an emai lthis morning:

_Quote »_There wont be any recall from Hella as they have already proved to us that the headlight is not at fault, actually we just recently learned that even the headlight that you sent back to us still functions and only the safety resistor in the headlight had gone off to prevent any damage, once reset it will continue to operate as normal. In fact every single headlight that was sent into Hella worked just fine on arrival, there was no damage to the light and no damage to the Celis. What was happening was a combination of either or 2 things. In either circumstance the headlights own safety resistor was closing off to prevent damage or the cars relay or fuse was going out to prevent damage... In the end all of the lights were just fine and there is nothing at fault with them.. As we and Hella suspected from the beginning it was the cars causing the problem not the lights. Even your friend that lives in the near of you that had is light go out... Well we never even sent it into Hella because when we took it out of the box and hooked it up and it worked perfectly; actually the Celis on that light has been running for 3 days straight without break and its working great, it was not even necessary for us to replace his light.
But even with this we still understand that there must be some core electrical anomaly with the US cars that causes this in "some" cases. We believe that something in that power line to the Celis is not having a good reaction with the lights Celis, it could be a resistor or OHM difference but they are not syncing well in the cases where the Celis goes out. Its not a problem of not enough power as the Celis will function on even as low as 6 volts of power. So what we are currently making is bridge kits that we will send to you. The kit will derive the Celis power source from the parking light power line instead of the daytime running light or normal city light power line from the headlight harness. I would like you to be the first to try this as you have been the one waiting longest to find a ultimate solution with us so let me know if you are willing to and I will have one made up and sent out to you asap. This change will be very easy and will not cause anything permanent or otherwise irreversible.

I asked a couple questions because I thought our harnesses had the city light and parking light off the same pin; pin #10. I also asked how the safety resistor works and if there are any known differences between the US and Euro electrical systems. I did tell them that I'd definitely try their solution as soon as I could. Hopefully we will finally have a resolution to this.
Major props to TM Tuning for taking the time and effort to do this.


_Modified by stripethree at 8:57 AM 1-16-2006_


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*

This may just be a language issue - but I'm not sure what a "safety resistor" is in English? Sounds like a circuit breaker to me - is there really a circuit breaker in the headlight?
And I'm not sure what the difference is between is between the "parking light power line" and the "city light power line" either.


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: Re: (stripethree)*

ah! this finally sounds like a ray of hope for us! good work. definitely let us know what happens. i'm going to pull the plug on my headlights for a day and see if it resets itself as damian is suggesting.
question though, why would disconnecting the lights be any different than just turning the lights off at the light switch? doesn't the power source get cut off and the lights no longer receive power if the switch is off? i guess i fail to see why the lights would have to be physcially disconnected for the safety resistor to reset itself. anyone know?


_Modified by yum at 3:58 PM 1-16-2006_


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Re: (yum)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yum* »_question though, why would disconnecting the lights be any different than just turning the lights off at the light switch? doesn't the power source get cut off and the lights no longer receive power if the switch is off? i guess i fail to see why the lights would have to be physcially disconnected for the safety resistor to reset itself. anyone know?

See, if there is a problem with the output of our cars then that won't work, the safety thing will trigger again. I think Damian means that if you unplug it for a few minutes, then give the proper power, which apparently our cars are not, then it will be fine again. I'm not sure though, which is why I asked for clarification.
Dennis: He mentioned something about the light I sent back to them having a blown transistor or something... I have to find the email for the exact wording. Again, I don't electronics like this, so I don't know if that helps at all.


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: Re: (stripethree)*

i think you're right... i pulled the plug for a day and nothing happened. ah well. i didn't get my hopes up too high anyways. let us know with pics of what this bridge looks like. hopefully it's easy and i won't have to beg TM to send me one too.


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## Colombiano1016 (May 1, 2003)

great discussion yall have going here. I read bits and pieces but a lot of it made sense and it seems like yall know what you're doing. I was contemplating getting the mk3 Celis but will hold off until the issue is resolved.


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_Just got an emai lthis morning:
I asked a couple questions because I thought our harnesses had the city light and parking light off the same pin; pin #10. I also asked how the safety resistor works and if there are any known differences between the US and Euro electrical systems. I did tell them that I'd definitely try their solution as soon as I could. Hopefully we will finally have a resolution to this.
Major props to TM Tuning for taking the time and effort to do this.

_Modified by stripethree at 8:57 AM 1-16-2006_

Good news man, I want to hear that you are enjoying your headlights soon... keep us posted.


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## PDing (Jul 8, 2003)

Is the Celis even worth buying? I'm afraid to invest in a set of these due to the problems so many are having.


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## EternalMind (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (dennisgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dennisgli* »_This may just be a language issue - but I'm not sure what a "safety resistor" is in English? Sounds like a circuit breaker to me - is there really a circuit breaker in the headlight?
And I'm not sure what the difference is between is between the "parking light power line" and the "city light power line" either.


i'm with dennis on this...not sure what a "safety resistor" is...the terminology doesn't really make sense. in general, there are resistors (for current control based on voltage applied) and varistors (for over voltage protection). neither can really be "reset" ...they are passive components








and i would've thought the parking and city lamp lines would be the same as well. 
has anyone taken out the little driver board for the LEDs? not the board that the LED is mounted to, but the little box that the wires from the LED go to? if memory serves, it's a little green plastic box. (sorry if it's already posted in another page...i haven't looked at this thread since it was only a few pages deep). if someone can post up a pic of the circuit board or whatever is inside the box, i'm sure that a few of us will be able to figure out what it really is.
we can at least determine if it is a simple resistor network or a constant current device.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (EternalMind)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalMind* »_
has anyone taken out the little driver board for the LEDs? not the board that the LED is mounted to, but the little box that the wires from the LED go to? if memory serves, it's a little green plastic box. (sorry if it's already posted in another page...i haven't looked at this thread since it was only a few pages deep). if someone can post up a pic of the circuit board or whatever is inside the box, i'm sure that a few of us will be able to figure out what it really is.
we can at least determine if it is a simple resistor network or a constant current device.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=5
only pics posted were of the LED Circuit Board. its on page 5, link is above.

_Quote, originally posted by *PDing* »_Is the Celis even worth buying? I'm afraid to invest in a set of these due to the problems so many are having.

so far nobody else has had any of these problems.
this post is just for the people who bought their kits a little bit earlier.
cuz the one that have posted here and that have recently bought their Celis Headlights aren't having any problems so far.
so its up to you.










_Modified by sleepygti28 at 7:40 PM 1-23-2006_


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## EternalMind (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=5
only pics posted were of the LED Circuit Board. its on page 5, link is above.


yeah, if you look right below that post you'll see my post explaining which LEDs they are







. the board that the LED is on in this picture is only a heat sink and a means to put a connector at the LED. the driving electronics are elsewhere and that is the picture needed. 
thanks for letting me know that there weren't any other pics though...saved me from having to go through the rest of the pages


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (EternalMind)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalMind* »_
yeah, if you look right below that post you'll see my post explaining which LEDs they are







. the board that the LED is on in this picture is only a heat sink and a means to put a connector at the LED. the driving electronics are elsewhere and that is the picture needed. 
thanks for letting me know that there weren't any other pics though...saved me from having to go through the rest of the pages

















no prob!
i was in the market for these headlights awhile back when some companies sold them back in mid-summer of '05 but glad i didnt buy them anymore.








sorry guys.















and hope this shiz gets figured out soon!


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Re: (R32DubGirl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32DubGirl* »_Good news man, I want to hear that you are enjoying your headlights soon... keep us posted.

Yeah, I dunno what the deal is, I emailed them back the same day with some questions but also saying that I would definitely like to try the harness ASAP, sent them another email a couple days later, still nada.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_The wiring was sent out, you should have it shortly. As to your questions about the same circuit you are right and this is what I want to find out because if this does not work I am going to ask you to run it instead to the power line to the celis from the Driver side since that is a different circuit all together and seems to function without problem. This will do 2 things. First it will fix the problem if it works and second will narrow down the problem to that 58R circuit.

I am guessing he meant to say passenger side instead of driver's side, since the driver's side is what is out for me now, but nonetheless, as soon as I get this, I'll try it out.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_
I am guessing he meant to say passenger side instead of driver's side, since the driver's side is what is out for me now, but nonetheless, as soon as I get this, I'll try it out.

hey jeff maybe you should specify which side is out because if he sends you the wrong side, assuming that the passengers side wiring maybe longer then the drivers side wiring, maybe its best if you tell Damien?
just a suggestion.


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## pwellen (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*

Or just gimme the damn car and I'll wire it up for ya







Right after I piece together my car (hopefully tonight)


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## my_GTI-02 (Jan 5, 2005)

can someone post up a pic of the light pattern on a wall or down a street? i am thinking of buying these soo so im interested.


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: (my_GTI-02)*


_Quote, originally posted by *my_GTI-02* »_can someone post up a pic of the light pattern on a wall or down a street? i am thinking of buying these soo so im interested.

...I'll always accept a pic-whoring invitation...
Low beams








Lows w/ fogs








Lows, highs and fogs








Celis powa


























_Modified by R32DubGirl at 7:31 PM 1-30-2006_


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (Crzypdilly)*

for best output with a halogen bulb i'd say go with the Osram Silver Stars.
by fat the brightest halogen bulbs on the market. they are brighter then the cool blues.
but i'm guessing r32dubgirl is using Osram's and i've seen her headlight pics all over vortex!


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

I had to chuckle when I got my package from TM yesterday. I was wondering what this 'harness' would be, and how it would work. Moral of story: I should have asked for more clarifications. They sent me enough wire to run the length of the front of the car, a connector to splice into the city light power on one side and a connector to run to the light on the other side, things I had or could have gotten very easily. D'oh! I should have asked... oh well.
So it looks like the next step is to try and wire the driver's side from the passenger side. Maybe tonight, maybe this weekend. It's too farking cold to work on a car outside.


_Modified by stripethree at 10:19 AM 2-8-2006_


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## EternalMind (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (Crzypdilly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Crzypdilly* »_I'm just curious on what brand/type of H7 halogen bulbs all of you are using? Like Osram Silverstars and such. Also has anyone tried a bulb like the Osram cool blue H7 or equivalent for the HID look, or does it not work well with projector?

silverstars have much better output than cool blue, and are closer in color temperature to HID.


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

i figured as much. hey, if it works can you post pix of it? i'm not knowledgeable at this electrical stuff at all. so needless to say, if you say it's simple, i would still need step by step instructions and a shopping list.
lemme know if it works!
i actually just emailed TM to ask about this "fix"
i'm kinda excited to have working celis rings.
do any of your electrical experts see any danger or downsides to this "macguyver" fix for the celis issue?


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## my_GTI-02 (Jan 5, 2005)

*Re: (R32DubGirl)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Thanks fro posting those pics.....Can you post up a pic during light hours? im wondering how these look on reflux silver thanks a bunch man


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Ugh, disappointment again.
Ran a wire from the passenger side 10-pin, through the grommet into the back of the driver's side light, and connected directly to the wire going into the Celis connection and no change. The passenger side (the light for which I received a replacement) works great. The driver's side, which is from the original pair I received, is not nearly as bright as the passenger side.
I even left the lights unplugged for about an hour and it still didn't change anything. I might try and leave them unplugged overnight to see if this safety resistor resets.
Here's something interesting though, and it is probably something built into the light, but check this: I unplugged the driver's light and turned the lights on, and no light to the rings, at all. But wait, they are wired to the passenger side, they should still get power? I was puzzled, and yes, the connections were double checked and are correct.
Edit: Ignore the last paragraph, there is no ground when it's not plugged in. I'm an idiot. An idiot with lights that don't ****ING work.
I might get to fiddle with things later in the weekend and I will email TM Tuning on Monday.


_Modified by stripethree at 7:34 PM 2-10-2006_


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## EternalMind (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*

still curious what this "safety resistor" is








no one has taken a pic of the driver board yet?


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_Ugh, disappointment again.
Ran a wire from the passenger side 10-pin, through the grommet into the back of the driver's side light, and connected directly to the wire going into the Celis connection and no change. The passenger side (the light for which I received a replacement) works great. The driver's side, which is from the original pair I received, is not nearly as bright as the passenger side.
I even left the lights unplugged for about an hour and it still didn't change anything. I might try and leave them unplugged overnight to see if this safety resistor resets.
Here's something interesting though, and it is probably something built into the light, but check this: I unplugged the driver's light and turned the lights on, and no light to the rings, at all. But wait, they are wired to the passenger side, they should still get power? I was puzzled, and yes, the connections were double checked and are correct.
Edit: Ignore the last paragraph, there is no ground when it's not plugged in. I'm an idiot. An idiot with lights that don't ****ING work.
I might get to fiddle with things later in the weekend and I will email TM Tuning on Monday.

_Modified by stripethree at 7:34 PM 2-10-2006_

i say lets call Pat's a$$ and have him take a look at it and then we get drunk and party!!!


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## loi68gsx (Feb 20, 2006)

Hello to all, I would want to buy the hella celis, but e' some modification to make there? Excused but I do not speak English so much well.


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## EternalMind (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (Crzypdilly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Crzypdilly* »_Question:
Are these lights able to switch from LHD to RHD beam patterns? The reason I'm asking is cause I'm moving to the UK this year and don't want to run into any problems making my GTI legal there. I know the MKV HID projector lenses have a lever to switch back to and Forth to RHD and LHD beams. I'm just curious if the Celis have a similar feature.

yes.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

I sent _another_ email to TM this morning basically saying that I'm fed up with fiddling with the lights. I spend the better part of my weekend trying everything they suggested and this thing still doesn't work right. In all honestly, I think Hella's solution of 'leaving the light unplugged' so this mysterious safety resistor can reset is a load of crap and I want a new light. I fail to see how, if the car has electrical problems, the passenger side light they replaced works fine. It's been 6 months since I got these lights and they haven't worked right from day 1, I want what I paid for.


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## pest (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: (Crzypdilly)*

Man i spent the last hour reading all these posts to find out what the heck is going on with the celis rings and the HID drop in kits . Does anyone have anu more info as to if newer celis headlights are doing this , not the ones bought through tm tuning. And also if the guy s that had thiers fixed have now restored thier celis rings and can use the HID drop in's ????


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (pest)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pest* »_Man i spent the last hour reading all these posts to find out what the heck is going on with the celis rings and the HID drop in kits . Does anyone have anu more info as to if newer celis headlights are doing this , not the ones bought through tm tuning. And also if the guy s that had thiers fixed have now restored thier celis rings and can use the HID drop in's ????

the newer ones seem to not have any issues even w/HIDs Kit in them, i believe and after what i've read off of vortex, so its up to you to take the leap.


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

Any word from TM yet? I sent them an email but have not heard anything for 2 weeks. oh well.
Can I bribe you into sending me the "jumper cable" fix they sent you? I'm willing to give it a go on my dumpy set up.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (yum)*

It's not worth it and it didn't work. All it is in a wire that runs from one side of the car to another, nothing special. I'll post bits of the email tomorrow but they basically said at this point, they, and Hella still believe it's the cars and told me I'm pretty much out of luck.
To add to the mess, the passenger light when out again while wired as the power to both.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*

so are they willing to replace the headlights or what?
this is just unacceptable.
$600 headlights that don't even work.


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_...at this point, they [TMTuning], and Hella still believe it's the cars and told me I'm pretty much out of luck.

that's BS. swap in your stock headlights and if those work then it's not the car.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_so are they willing to replace the headlights or what?

Nope.

_Quote, originally posted by *actng* »_that's BS. swap in your stock headlights and if those work then it's not the car.

Been there done that been told the same ****.

_Quote, originally posted by *TMTuning* »_I am sorry to hear about this, before I go into the response I would like to see some pictures of what you are describing about one ring being dimmer then the other..

Of course, now that the passenger side is out again, I can't do this.

_Quote, originally posted by *TMTuning* »_I do understand that you paid a good amount of money but the lights are plug and play, they do not require any modification. The only things you have had to do are because of faults present in your vehicle as we have replaced the original light that you blamed on the fault of Hella which coincidentally showed up here and worked perfectly... Thus proving again that the light was not the problem.
At this point I have exhausted everything I can do to try to fix a problem that I am under the firm belief resides in the vehicle not the lights. If you like I can offer you the following:
- You can send back the drivers side headlight that you say is dimmer and we can test it here. But this can only be done under conditions; first sending it back will be up to you, at your cost and convenience as we have already sent a replacement before under the belief it was a warranty issue that turned out to be sending a working light in exchange for a working light. Now we have your used headlight sitting here but cannot sell it and Hella wont take it back because it works fine. So if you send it, it will be at your risk. If it shows up and works fine under testing you will have to pay forwarding freight for its return.
- I cannot refund or take back the lights, they have been used, installed etc. If you want to send the set back to us you can. We will test them. If they work we will send them back to you and cannot refund or exchange them. But at this point it would have to be a very clear problem regarding the dimming of one side. And that problem would have to be investigated and tested to show that it was the result of the lights themselves and any problem was not the cause of the car damaging the lights or installation etc.
I hope you can understand our position, that we tested your original lights before they left "they functioned perfectly" we tested the light you sent back "it functioned perfectly" and the light that we sent to you as a replacement was tested before it left "it functioned perfectly" ... The only time they seem not to function properly is after they have been installed onto your car. So basically a warranty is going to be a tough sell as the techs here have infallible evidence that the lights worked 100% when they were sent out and only became a problem after installing onto your car.
But before you make a decision on either one of those choices I need to ask if you have taken the light that you see as dimmer "drivers I believe" and plugged it into the power harness from the opposite side of the car? Basically switched left and right lights to power sources to see if the problem of the dimmer light exists on a single side of the car or if its focused to the light itself?


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

At least his email is courteous and has some degree of logic, albeit entirely from his point of view...
I have to admit though the last paragraph seems to make sense to me. Did you try to see if that works?

_Quote, originally posted by *tumtuning* »_But before you make a decision on either one of those choices I need to ask if you have taken the light that you see as dimmer "drivers I believe" and plugged it into the power harness from the opposite side of the car? Basically switched left and right lights to power sources to see if the problem of the dimmer light exists on a single side of the car or if its focused to the light itself?


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

No, i haven't yet because I don't believe the plugs fit in such a manner that allows that and even if they do, I don't have the time right now to remove my bumper and try more **** that isn't necessarily going to work _again_.
Yeah, his emails are courteous and I'll admit that they have baan as helpful as they possibly can, but it still doesn't take away that $600 and 6 months later, the damn things don't work, and never have _since day one_. The explanation I'm given to go on is is of some mysterious 'safety resistor' that resets itself after being unplugged for a certain period of time. The fact that I can't get a more detailed explanation of what the hell this safety thing is, how it works, and how I can fix this is absurd and frustrating. I'm inclined (and would hope) that it's Hella not giving TM enough information to pass along, given that TM has been very helpful and forthcoming, but who knows.
Yeah, I'm pissed, don't take it personally as it's not directed at you.


_Modified by stripethree at 4:12 PM 2-27-2006_


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*

i'm speechless Jeff.
i'm sorry bro, i know you've been frustrated about these headlights for some time.
and both Celis Headlights light up correctly when they are *not* on the car?
even if it may not be an HID issue, did you try going back to stock bulbs? eventhough i think that this action may not result in any better results, its worth a try if you have not done so.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_and both Celis Headlights light up correctly when they are *not* on the car?

Last time I tried, nope.

_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_even if it may not be an HID issue, did you try going back to stock bulbs? eventhough i think that this action may not result in any better results, its worth a try if you have not done so.

Might try this. Right now I'm still in the 'I'm ****ing sick of this issue' frame of mind. I doubt this is the issue though, I had the lights unplugged for 24 hours again and nothing changed, and when I hooked them back up I only turned on the rings, not the low beams. Nothing.


_Modified by stripethree at 10:09 AM 3-2-2006_


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## Brake_Dust (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

are you sure your headlight plug is snapped in completely???
sometimes the pins can get bent over or the connectors can pop out

just wanted to check


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

^ yeah, they don't click in as solidly as the stock ones, but they are definitely 'in', as I can tug on the plug without pinching the sides and it goes no where. I'll check for bent pins though, thanks for the suggestion, I haven't noticed any though. Plus, I would presume that if it weren't plugged in all the way more than just the rings would be out.
Did you ever post more details on how you took them apart? I found some of your old threads, looks like they break down nicely.


_Modified by stripethree at 2:47 PM 3-2-2006_


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## EternalMind (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (EternalMind)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalMind* »_still curious what this "safety resistor" is








no one has taken a pic of the driver board yet?

still waiting on a pic. i'd be happy to look at the board if someone could "show" it to me.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Only one I know of, courtesy of Brake_Dust:








Larger


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## EternalMind (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (stripethree)*

nope, as mentioned before, that is only the LED (Lumileds Luxeon) and a heat sink. the driver board is elsewhere in the lamp. someone needs to follow the wires back to the actual driver board and get a picture of it (a picture that will show the electrical components). the board won't be very big (maybe 1 inch x 1 inch).


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Ah, my bad. I don't know electronics well at all (as if you couldn't already tell). I have also been known to suck at reading before I reply.


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

someone might need to disassemble their headlights to get to this "driverboard".








any volunteers?


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

In regards to that splice wire fix that TM sent you:
How does the wire tap into the other wire and where. Could you possibly post a pic for me? I'm just as jaded as you are with my non-working Celis rings. I'm willing to give it a try. I'm not experienced with electrical work so you will have to explain it in dummy language. thanks.


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## Brake_Dust (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sleepygti28* »_someone might need to disassemble their headlights to get to this "driverboard".








any volunteers?









all I have now


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (yum)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yum* »_In regards to that splice wire fix that TM sent you:
How does the wire tap into the other wire and where. Could you possibly post a pic for me? I'm just as jaded as you are with my non-working Celis rings. I'm willing to give it a try. I'm not experienced with electrical work so you will have to explain it in dummy language. thanks.

Well, I undid it since my passenger light went back out again and I haven't been able to get either to come back so pictures probably would not help, I can take some of the areas I'm talking about tomorrow though.
Basically, I spliced into the city light power on the passenger side (pin #10) and ran that wire across the front of the car and connected it to the red power wire to the city lights inside the headlights. So, back when I talked about where I disconnected them, to pull that power wire, that's the wire I connected to. I'll post some pics tomorrow to try and explain it better.
On a side note, more issues for me: battery might need replacement. Twice today I went to start my car and nothing. Lock, unlock with the remote, then it starts. Weird. Had some other issues a couple weeks ago that also indicate a battery dying. So going to have that checked and dealt with tomorrow I hope. If the battery turns out to be the culprit...


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

what a coincidence that you're having more electrical problems. you might be interested to know that in addition to the distortion that occurs in my radio signal whenever I turn on my HIDs, the light in my boost guage has started to flicker on and off. The cherry on top was when I was listening to my radio today, the radio cut off mid-drive and when I turned it back on the safe mode was on. This suggests to me that the power was cut to my radio somehow while I was driving.
Nothing but problems since I installed these dang lights.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (yum)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yum* »_the light in my boost guage has started to flicker on and off.

If I have the lights & cluster on and touch anything else that's uses power, including the brake pedal, windows, locks, I get a noticable cluster flicker. There are times when sitting at a light or crusing I can notice a flicker as well.
Refresh my memory (it's probably in the thread somewhere, but alas...), did you get your HIDs and housings from TM?


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

yep. full kit and kaboodle. i bought it from them prolly for the same reasons as you did: they promised full plug and play capability and high quality merchandise. too bad we got either the bad lights or the bad cars that don't like the lights...


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## 1.8Twentieth (Apr 7, 2003)

*Re: (yum)*

Looks like just pushing the pin in to disable the angel eyes all around is going to have to suffice. 
... Thanks 600 dollar headlights


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Didn't get to take the pictures today, sorry. Went to do an oil change on my girl's 1.8T and apparently the filter was torqued to 11 billion lb-ft. and literally took hours to get loose. By the time I finished, it was dark. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_It's not worth it and it didn't work. All it is in a wire that runs from one side of the car to another, nothing special. I'll post bits of the email tomorrow but they basically said at this point, they, and Hella still believe it's the cars and told me I'm pretty much out of luck.
To add to the mess, the passenger light when out again while wired as the power to both.

Damn! I was just reading through this again to see if I can sort out my problem, which sounds like at this point, we are the only 2 sorry bastards that didn't get their lights fixed








I was considering trying the jumper wire fix but after seeing that yours blew out again, I'm sad.


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (yum)*

i am going to install an overground kit later this week. i am hoping it's going to solve my weird noise in the radio when i turn on my HIDs... among other things.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (yum)*

Cool, let us know of the results. I've thought about taking mine off actually, since the wire coating is getting discolored and I don't know what, if anything the grounding kit is doing for me.
As for the lights, when it gets warmer I'm going to take them off and take them apart.


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

Didn't get the ground kit yet. Hopefully, next week. It should have shipped out yesterday.
I'm still debating on whether I should take my car to Murphy Bros. in Quincy, MA to help solve all my elec problems. I still need to have the headlights fitted with relays instead of the "plug and play" that was promised from TM. The lights work but they also recommended that I install relays which didn't get installed at the original time of installation (which is another story







) and get my rheostat working. It's $85/hour and still not guaranteed to be fixed. I hate electrical problems








And then I'm thinking of trying the jumpwire fix and see if it fails on my car like it did on stripe3's. What's the worse that could happen?


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## my_GTI-02 (Jan 5, 2005)

if one of you guys can....post up all your wireing from start to finish....were you ran it...what you connected too. 
What is this noise that i keep reading about when the HIDs are turned on? is it a Wining noise coming from the speakers?


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (my_GTI-02)*


_Quote, originally posted by *my_GTI-02* »_if one of you guys can....post up all your wireing from start to finish....were you ran it...what you connected too. 
What is this noise that i keep reading about when the HIDs are turned on? is it a Wining noise coming from the speakers?

Unfortunately, I can't tell you exactly how my set up was wired in, as I paid a shop to install mine. I can tell you that the headlights were not installed with a relay (which I plan on getting installed later this month) and I personally butchered the final wiring of the rheostat switch to the leveling motors (again, I hope to have someone clean this up as well).
The kit is from TM Tuning, which is supposed to be plug and play... no comment.
I discovered the "noise" when I was in an underground parking garage with the radio on. Without the lights on, I can get a clear radio signal but with the lights on, a fuzzing noise comes through the speakers that disappears when I pull out of the garage. So, with a clear strong signal the distortion is not noticeable, but when the signal is weakened the flaw is revealed.
My gas mileage has also dropped a considerable amount so I'm hoping it's something that can be helped by an improved ground. I'm sure there are some other factors at work here, but I figure an overground kit can't hurt.
Hope that helps. I think that the only ppl with probs are certain 01 GTIs. I know there are probably a bunch of undocumented changes in parts, etc. from the different models. I know that my GTI came with a bunch of different parts than the later year 01 GTIs: coilpacks, turbointernals, etc.


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## my_GTI-02 (Jan 5, 2005)

the reason im asking about the noise is because if you have a bad ground, that might be causing your issue there. Thats why i sadi to check all your grounds and make sure they are all on their own grounding point. do not join the wires together. I figure this because you say the problem only happens when your HIDs are on.....try checking all your grounds.
Tony


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## sonnieeeeboi (Apr 14, 2005)

Hey, this may be off topic, but i'm having trouble trying to adjust these headlights! the damn cut offf is slanted and i tried both adjust knobs and it does nothing but make it go up and down. please help!


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (sonnieeeeboi)*

Does the cut off look like this?
__/ __/
If so, that is what it is supposed to look like, if not, give us some more info so we can try and help. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sonnieeeeboi (Apr 14, 2005)

^---basically it looks like that, bu picture both of those _ _ lines slanted at 35 degrees


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: (sonnieeeeboi)*

I've kept this thread in my "watched" list to see how you are doing Stripe Three... this is pitiful. I'm so sorry to hear you are still having no luck. I tell you what: You DEFINITELY scared me outta trying to HID these lights, even though others have without issue.
So, at this point, are you still communicating with TMT, or is that just kinda "done"?


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (R32DubGirl)*

Sorry, almost forgot all about this thread (maybe that was on purpose, or maybe it was the other issues I've had with my car).

_Quote, originally posted by *R32DubGirl* »_So, at this point, are you still communicating with TMT

No. The lights are going to come off the car and if I can't get them to light off the car, I will take them apart, mess with the wiring, and in the end, hopefully blow people's minds with something custom.
Last I spoke with TM, they and Hella were still adamant that the problem was the car not the lights. They claim that my light (the one I sent back) was operational and so was the light of another customer that was returned to them. They have told me that the lights need to be left unplugged for the safety resistor to reset. All of the folks that I have talked to who know electronics better than I do agree there's something in that explanation that does not add up. I haven't been able to get this to work either.
I have yet to try them without the HIDs, but I might since it would be east to do when I take the bumper off, etc. At this point, it's pretty much a lost cause in my mind. I have HIDs, which I like a lot, the angel eyes, I've almost gotten over it, as sad as that is. There really isn't anything I can do and I'm just past the point where I care.


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

yeah, the whole unplug the lights thing is such a load of garbage. i tried it the first time you posted it. left them unplugged overnight, unless they mean i have to physically pull the lights off the car b/c the proximity of the vehicle is causing a spectral vortex thereby negating the celis ring that can only be corrected if plugged into an external power source 50 feet from the car...
at least the weather is finally turning nice again and i can yank these lights off to see what the deal is... grrrr...
still, the HIDs are nice and they still look the biz whenever i see them (lights off of course).
out of curiosity, is anyone else running the hard ballistic plastic light covers? i took them off for one day and got a friggin rock ding in one of the lenses... so they pretty much wear the "goggles" all the time now.


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (yum)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yum* »_out of curiosity, is anyone else running the hard ballistic plastic light covers? i took them off for one day and got a friggin rock ding in one of the lenses... so they pretty much wear the "goggles" all the time now. 

That sucks man, but yeah, I'm rockin' the headlight rec-specs. I kept telling people yeah, I spent all this money on these nice lights, I wouldn't want them to get cracked. Who knew that'd be the least of my worries...


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## gugubig (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re:*

finally! T-T please forgive my poor English. i come from China and i have the same problem . when i take the hella hid into my hella angle eye .the celis ring went out ,i think the leds was over voltage.then i test the leds ,but they works good . so ,i am sure the "green box"was broken,and who can tell me how to repair it very thanks.








































someone Connections Resistance Replace the "green box".the celis bright again but the Brightness is not higher as the right side.
_Modified by gugubig at 11:30 PM 4-23-2006_


_Modified by gugubig at 11:39 PM 4-23-2006_


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## gugubig (Apr 24, 2006)

i have connect the hella China General agent ,they tell me the mk4 hella celis cant with the HID,because it mey be borken the celis .........


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## sleepygti28 (Feb 24, 2005)

i believe/agree with you when you say that the HIDs affect the Celis but I don't understand why or how the HIDs are affecting it.


----------



## gugubig (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (sleepygti28)*

my hid kits is oem hella , because the celis should be installed the H7 xenon,so i diy the wire. i Parallel connection the HID power wire into the Original wire. i think when the high voltage of the starter cause the broken.
*one of my firend fixed his celis ,so i will meet him today or tomorrow. then i will upload the Solution and the picture. *


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## Brake_Dust (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (gugubig)*

that could be the problem....
When I wired my Xenon I used a seperate harness and used the H7 plug to trip the ballast only


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## gugubig (Apr 24, 2006)

my firend tell me that Their make a belt lines replace Hella manufacturers that green things 








But after the discovery site Hella angel ring colour vision than before dark a bit, but thank God that can turn, in order to find the reasons I told you.


----------



## gugubig (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (gugubig)*

here come the best news that He has repaired the angel eyes, relative brightness restore previous state.there is another problem that he installed non-hella hids ,but i installed hella oem hids ,we all have the same problems ,i cant understand . did someone can tell me why?
But once again strongly despised Hella products technical structure is deliberately do not want to be with the non-Hella xenon lights.
He has not developed properly installed Hella xenon lights, but is testing now , if practical methods, I will inform you as soon as possible.
(if unsuccessful, he might be to buy another set of angels eyes form the great hella)


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (gugubig)*

thanks gugubig! i love the internet!
i hope that the fix is posted and someone can explain it in caveman for me since i have no idea how to do any electrical work.
update on the over ground kit: it has not helped the noise in my radio but the car does seem to run smoother on cold starts and the butt dyno says a lil bit of power has been restored. i'm about to rollover 109,999 miles and i feel like the old girl is starting to lose a bit of her edge. anyways, it can't hurt and i hope this rules out a bad ground.
the weather is turning nice and i'm going to attempt to pull the bumper and lights to poke around. gawd, i hope i don't break anything.
stripe three if you could give me really basic instructions on how you did the jumper wire to the working --> non-working celis and i'll give it a try. i sort of follow your last description but not really. is there an easy way to splice wires? i don't want to butcher it. thanks.
i suppose, worse comes to worse, i'm going to pull the power wire you described so i won't be a "pirate eye" anymore. yeah, you can thank my friend that won't let me live forget this dang impulse purchase for that nickname. till then, arrr matey


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## gugubig (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (yum)*

dont worry my friend ,i will take the angle eye a "opration",I will be a detailed record of the operation process, including discription and photographs to give help to bring more friends! Because I fully understood, then the question is how I met a red forces. 
I will need to use detailed descriptions of the material specifications, or to facilitate your search in the market. 
There is, some days ago I think, may be the led bulbs dead, and I to purchase led, I also found a green, red, the different colours of the powerful led (1w 3w 5w),hope I could change the color of the rings,







like the FK.


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## gugubig (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (gugubig)*

I have been converted hella angle eye best in the future, now ! nomatter you install hellahid or non hella hid all noproblem .Principles are : lights and the original car show wide light(angle eye ring ) sharing with a ground wire,when you installed the hid, then activated by the tens of thousands of volts voltage will burned the "green box"(Voltage regulator ) , so we do this is to separate the shared ground wire to 2 parts: 1.one of the original cars ground wire;
2.show wide lights ground wire
its Can easily solve the problem. 
so its Tuesday in Beijing China.i will do this on Saturday then your could look the things from begining to ending. Good luck to me !!


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

CHINA POWAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm especially proud to be Chinese today.
gugubig - you are the best. I vote for you to be the BEST "new user" on vortex of all time. Only 7 posts and you've solved a complex problem.
Good luck to you on Saturday.


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## gugubig (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (actng)*

hehe thanx (Oo)==w==(xX) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: (gugubig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gugubig* »_(Oo)==w==(xX) 


OMG THAT IS SO FUNNY!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA





























(Oo)==w==(*xX*)


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## silverbullet01 (May 20, 2004)

Alright alright... After 10 pages of talk, what is the easest way to fix the hella celis lights? I was going to order from Tmtuning with the HID xenon light kit as well... Should i have them install it before shipping it out? Any recommendations?
Thanks


----------



## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (gugubig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gugubig* »_they tell me the mk4 hella celis cant with the HID,because it mey be borken the celis .........

Thanks for the info, I will definitely try this when I can. I will not be happy if it works, only because TM Tuning was adamant that they tested everything before shipping...


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## GriffinMoss (Oct 25, 2002)

*Re: (stripethree)*

It definitely sounds like the ground might be the problem. I wonder if the HID was wired up directly to the battery if it would help.
Also, with the Mk3's when we retrofit, we usually use a relayed harness as well.


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## aries777 (Apr 29, 2006)

I have the some problem like i posted on other 3d ........ :

I there,
Im italian guy...
i don't speak english very well... so i just ask sorry for my bad text....
I have bought hella celis for golf IV .... all rights...
Some days ago I have bought Xenon lamps kit....and installed it also ...
after 10 minuts.... both angel (cellis) of left headlights goes off 
.....and after maybe 3 -4 hours ... both cellis of the other headlight .... goes off.
We are a community of a big famous forum in italy :
http://www.vwgolfclub.it
we have spoken about this problem because we are more of 4 - 5 people having this problem !!
still, nobody has succeeded in finding a solution...
Please if someone can help us .... we'll happy !!! 
many thank's


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (gugubig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gugubig* »_I have been converted hella angle eye best in the future, now ! nomatter you install hellahid or non hella hid all noproblem .Principles are : lights and the original car show wide light(angle eye ring ) sharing with a ground wire,when you installed the hid, then activated by the tens of thousands of volts voltage will burned the "green box"(Voltage regulator ) , so we do this is to separate the shared ground wire to 2 parts: 1.one of the original cars ground wire;
2.show wide lights ground wire
its Can easily solve the problem. 
so its Tuesday in Beijing China.i will do this on Saturday then your could look the things from begining to ending. Good luck to me !!

Gugubig rocks!
Ok, so there seems to be 3 steps we need to take to fix this issue:
1. replace the green box (voltage regulator)
2. separate the ground for the low beam and the celis ring
3. install the power to the ballast straight to the battery through a relay
Having no experience with electrical work, would someone kindly take pix of where all these things are, so I'm not randomly ripping things apart?
Hmmm, Gugu mentions changing the color of the LED. Interesting... I'd settle for 2 sets of working lights no matter what the color!







for Gugu


----------



## SLC'98VR6 (Apr 11, 2002)

*Re: (yum)*

this thread is so old. Just thought I would point out the obvious.


----------



## aries777 (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: (yum)*

oh....many thank's...
if someone can give me some picture about this work...
thank's again







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (SLC'98VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLC’98VR6* »_this thread is so old. Just thought I would point out the obvious.

ah, yes... these lights are like a bad tooth. it aches and aches until you think the best thing to do is just yank it out.
lol. thanks for making me realize how long i've been unhappy for.
Oo===VW===xX <----- I love this pic. I'm adopting it!


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## gugubig (Apr 24, 2006)

sorry guys. my firend so busy these day .so he promise me that he would help me in 2006.5.4. so







,dont worry. you can see the picture!


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## aries777 (Apr 29, 2006)

ok, many thank's


----------



## Factor (Sep 1, 2001)

*Re: (aries777)*

so has any one decided if its safe to install HID, in our Hella Celis Lamps? I want to get a set but don't want to have to go though the stuff you guys are going through.


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## aries777 (Apr 29, 2006)

gugubig..............
any news ?


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

After taking the lights off my car last weekend and leaving them untouched all week, I tested the angel eyes off my car's battery. The driver's side light up the same as they always have, presumably they are dim, and the passenger side did not light up at all.
I'm now fully of the opinion that the explanation I got from TM Tuning is horse****. I will probably be taking them apart while resisting the urge to purposefully destroy them.


_Modified by stripethree at 12:16 PM 5-16-2006_


----------



## Factor (Sep 1, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

i'm alittle disappointed that although the problem has been solved, no one is able to really solidify how to fix it, and even more disappointed that hella has never come back to anyone on how to fix this problem. the least they could do is tell us its unsupported, but they haven't even done that.well i hope we can find an easy way to fix this problem, i would really like to one day install an hid kit.


----------



## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_After taking the lights off my car last weekend and leaving them untouched all week, I tested the angel eyes off my car's battery. The driver's side light up the same as they always have, presumably they are dim, and the passenger side did not light up at all.
I'm now fully of the opinion that the explanation I got from TM Tuning is horse****. I will probably be taking them apart while resisting the urge to purposefully destroy them.

_Modified by stripethree at 12:16 PM 5-16-2006_








I have often been of the same mind, to just smash the fackers in anger. ah well.
with the weather out here finally clearing up, i'm going to attempt to crack these bad boys open as well. any tips or items to watch out for? should i unhook the neg terminal on my battery first? or can i just unplug the harnesses?


----------



## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_After taking the lights off my car last weekend and leaving them untouched all week, I tested the angel eyes off my car's battery. The driver's side light up the same as they always have, presumably they are dim, and the passenger side did not light up at all.
I'm now fully of the opinion that the explanation I got from TM Tuning is horse****. I will probably be taking them apart while resisting the urge to purposefully destroy them.

_Modified by stripethree at 12:16 PM 5-16-2006_


----------



## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (Factor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Factor* »_i'm alittle disappointed that although the problem has been solved, no one is able to really solidify how to fix it, and even more disappointed that hella has never come back to anyone on how to fix this problem. the least they could do is tell us its unsupported, but they haven't even done that.well i hope we can find an easy way to fix this problem, i would really like to one day install an hid kit.

Hella doesn't retail these lights - so I wouldn't expect them to respond here.
I would expect their position to be that they provide no guarantee that the lights will work with an HID "kit" installed in them. How could anyone think that they were designed for HIDs? I don't think this is a Hella problem.


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

some people had problems even without ever installing HID


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (dennisgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dennisgli* »_I would expect their position to be that they provide no guarantee that the lights will work with an HID "kit" installed in them. How could anyone think that they were designed for HIDs? I don't think this is a Hella problem.

You are correct, but my argument would be that TMTuning _is_ selling them as a 'kit', in the respect that they are the ones installing the HIDs into the lights before shipment to a customer. I'm not saying they should guarantee that all should be perfect one hundred percent of the time, but there is still some measure of responsibility since they are taking the initative to sell it as a packaged product that they say they thoroughly tested.


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*

I agree, if TM Tuning sold them with an HID "kit" then TM Tuning should repair them, replace them, or refund your money.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Yup, well they flat out refused the last time I emailed them; they offered to test the lights if I shipped them to and from at my expense (ah, yeah, right), but they still insisted the problem was with my car.
So, any tips on taking lights apart? I might start working on this next week after Dubs on the Lake.


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*

So, has anybody tried to fix them? It sounds like there are just two parts - the LED and the regulator. Has anybody tried replacing either part?


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (dennisgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dennisgli* »_So, has anybody tried to fix them? It sounds like there are just two parts - the LED and the regulator. Has anybody tried replacing either part?

I think the closest to a fix and explanation was from gugu but he's been silent recently. I'm hoping that he chimes in with the full write up he mentioned.


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## R32BOB (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (yum)*

I can now join the Celis w/ HID saga. I recently received my celis w/fogs after a long! wait and drop in HID's. After almost a week of use, the driver's side celis rings stopped working. There was no voltage coming out of the voltage regulator to the led's for the celis rings. I had that sinking feeling of despair that comes from joining this club.
As an experienced electronics technician, I did some research and possibly have found a solution. I think the Hella voltage regulator is not robust enough to handle the job it is supposed to. My HID's are powered through a relay, so the common ground theory seems to be out of the picture.
I have found some other voltage regulators that are approved by Luxeon, the manufacturer of the LED's. The ones I ordered are about $35 each and are small enough to fit in the head light themselves.
I should get them early this week and will try them asap.
The LED's are also available in many colors for those who would be interested in that kind of thing.(I'll stick with white)
Stay tuned!


_Modified by R32BOB at 6:04 PM 6-3-2006_


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## Factor (Sep 1, 2001)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (R32BOB)*

if it works i want to hear about it!


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (R32BOB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32BOB* »_I can now join the Celis w/ HID saga. 
_Modified by R32BOB at 6:04 PM 6-3-2006_









welcome to the exclusive club! thanks for the input, and look forward to the outcome. hopefully a nice DIY fix it with plenty of pics and part numbers for those of us without much expertise. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (R32BOB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32BOB* »_I can now join the Celis w/ HID saga...

I'm sorry you have had to join ths club, but I'll tell you what, if you mange to get a solution, I'll be buying you some of these








Definitely keep us informed!


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Just out of curiousity, where did you get your lights Bob?


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## R32BOB (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: (stripethree)*

I got them in a groupbuy previously listed on the vortex by a now non selling member. Euro something or other







. Aside from the wait(1year), he has been fine to deal with. Since you live relatively close to me, I work in College Park, We should get together to fix yours once I solve this. I should be getting my order in tomorrow or the next day.Fingers crossed.


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: (R32BOB)*

sounds like cullen


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## BlackMesaGTI (Apr 27, 2003)

*yay, me too*

WTF, i'm in the same boat now, waited a year, had them professionally installed, now after one month, drivers side rings out.
AND, unlike the commonly accepted theory, i'm not using any HID kit, just the bulbs hella supplied.
ugg, i have no idea what to do next.


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## R32BOB (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: yay, me too (BlackMesaGTI)*

If you had them "Professionaly Installed" then they should be under warranty. You just have to have them taken out, send them back, wait for a resolution, wait for them to be shipped back, and have them professional reinstalled. Piece of cake!
Thats why I am looking into this myself. I think heat may be an issue. There is only a shield behind the drivers headlight. For heat protection?
Since you did not have HID's, this helps confirm my theory that the Hella voltage regulator is not strong enough to take the heat and or load. The regulators I am going to try are the kind used in led police lights. That hopefully will be good enough. I can't say I've seen any pirate eye police light bars







.
I'll keep every one posted.
BTW has any one noticed the led DRLs on the new Audi S6?


_Modified by R32BOB at 7:00 AM 6-7-2006_


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (R32BOB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32BOB* »_Since you live relatively close to me, I work in College Park, We should get together to fix yours once I solve this. I should be getting my order in tomorrow or the next day. Fingers crossed.

That would be awesome. If all goes well with your car, I'd more than welcome the help, and we could document things for all the other folks in the thread with this same problem, as I'm sure they'd appreciate it.
Friday will mark 10 months since I got my lights.
BlackMesaGTI: My advice would be to get them off the car as soon as possible and try to return them. Honestly, I wouldn't buy these lights if I had to do it all over again. An exchange might not do it; I swapped passenger lights with TM, the new one didn't work and now I'm stuck now since TMTuning will not take them back. That's the only reason I'm trying to figure out something to get these to work. I will never recommended anyone buying these lights, period.


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: yay, me too (R32BOB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32BOB* »_
Thats why I am looking into this myself. I think heat may be an issue. There is only a shield behind the drivers headlight. For heat protection?


I don't think that's a heat shield - just part of the air intake plenum.


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: yay, me too (dennisgli)*

i wonder why only one set of lights goes out instead of both sides. and it's strange that it's not the same side every time. we seem split on driver's side and passenger side going out.


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## R32BOB (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: yay, me too (yum)*

Sounds like random failure to me. My voltage regulator looks different from the epoxy coated circuitboard in the pictures in this thread. It is a long green plastic part held in place on the bottom of the headlight with a riveted in clip. Once i have a confirmed solution, I will disect the Hella regulator to try to figure it out. My guess this difference in regulators is what differentiates between pre production models(as mentioned before) and final models. Looks like its a different shape, but same problems.
Another thing I found is that there are also 3 watt LED's available form the same manufacturer. Ours are 1 watt. This would require a stronger regulator. Future project?


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## BlackMesaGTI (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: yay, me too (R32BOB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32BOB* »_If you had them "Professionaly Installed" then they should be under warranty.

While i did have them installed at a local shop that sells hella, i purchased the lights through the Eurocullen pre-order group buy, which complicates the issue somewhat.

_Modified by BlackMesaGTI at 12:08 AM 6-8-2006_


_Modified by BlackMesaGTI at 12:22 AM 6-8-2006_


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

the warranty is doubtful as these lights are not meant to be sold to the North American market. The stuff we get here are grey market and are not supported by Hella.
...or at least, no one's had luck getting support from Hella.


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## BlackMesaGTI (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (actng)*


_Quote, originally posted by *actng* »_the warranty is doubtful as these lights are not meant to be sold to the North American market. The stuff we get here are grey market and are not supported by Hella.
...or at least, no one's had luck getting support from Hella.

Yeah, I was recently educated on this point by the Hella usa customer support rep.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (actng)*


_Quote, originally posted by *actng* »_the warranty is doubtful as these lights are not meant to be sold to the North American market. The stuff we get here are grey market and are not supported by Hella.

I don't necessarily expect you to have the answer, but what I've failed to understand is how US distributors can sell these products (ECS carries these lights) yet the same lights bought from TMTuning (yes, I know, overseas) or Cullen or whoever are grey market. Unless I'm missing the fact that the lights from ECS are also grey market? So is every aftermarket Hella light sold in the US grey market? That'd be a pretty sweet deal for Hella given their reputation; sell and bunch of lights and then, when they break, "Oh, your lights broke? Those are grey market, sorry, you're effed! And we already got your money!" Which basically, is exactly what they did.
</mini rant>


_Modified by stripethree at 8:03 AM 6-8-2006_


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_So is every aftermarket Hella light sold in the US grey market?

Uh no, just because Hella USA doesn't sell one product in the US doesn't mean that all thier products are "grey market".

_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_That'd be a pretty sweet deal for Hella given their reputation; sell and bunch of lights and then, when they break, "Oh, your lights broke? Those are grey market, sorry, you're effed! And we already got your money!" Which basically, is exactly what they did.

Well, I think they have TMTuning's money. And if TM Tuning is selling grey market parts in the US I wouldn't expect Hella USA to warranty them... that's sorta why they call it "grey market"!


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (dennisgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dennisgli* »_Uh no, just because Hella USA doesn't sell one product in the US doesn't mean that all thier products are "grey market".

I know, I was stretching things... I am still curious if these lights sold through ECS are considered grey market or if they are from Hella USA.


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*

I think RallyLights.com is a Hella USA retailer - but I suspect that ECS Tuning is not. When I asked RallyLights for the price on a Hella work light they told me that it wasn't a US product and that they'd have to get it through other channels. I suspect that whoever said that these are not meant to be sold to the North American market is right - and that they are all grey market.


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## GriffinMoss (Oct 25, 2002)

*Re: Wonderful - Hella Celis projector celis rings out- no apparent reason (stripethree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stripethree* »_I know, I was stretching things... I am still curious if these lights sold through ECS are considered grey market or if they are from Hella USA.

go to Hella's USA site and see who their authorized distributors are.








You'll find that most aftermarket "european" parts from overseas are not going to be warrantied by the North American branch.


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

the grey market on hella lights is really no different than the grey market on other things like cell phones or laptops.
laptops isn't as good an example nowadays because most of them have international warranty. but back in the day (circa late 90s and early millennium) and the same is true for select cell phones nowadays, the sales, warranty and support is meant to be regional.
back in 1998, I bought a laptop from COMPAQ that was quite decent. At the time it cost the equivalent of close to US$3500. Bought it in Asia cuz it was about $1000 cheaper and also because in NA they didn't have that particular model.
When I broke it in Canada, I had to pay for every single cost to repair from parts to labour. While I purchased it in the "white" market, I still received no support from COMPAQ Canada because the machine was purchased from COMPAQ Hong Kong.
In this case, it's even easier for Hella EURO to deny warranty for many reasons... firstly the lights aren't meant for use outside of Europe. secondly, they can claim the lights are tested for use with North American cars... thirdly, they can claim there is no support network in North America... etc etc.
basically anything that is "HELLA branded", but you can't find on the HELLA USA website, is grey market. That includes these CELIS.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

Any updates Bob?


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## R32BOB (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: (stripethree)*

Today I got the second voltage regulator. So that means this weekend every thing should be solved. The regulators will fit in the headlight easily. I even have 5 extra LED's incase anything is funny with them.


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## Factor (Sep 1, 2001)

*Re: (R32BOB)*

we are all waiting in anticipation!


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## R32BOB (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: (Factor)*

Has any one tried searching the european sites to see if this problem exists over there? Does any one have the web address of tyresmoke?
BTW I picked up heatsinks today for the voltage regulators, so I think I have everything that I need. I'll be sure to take lots of pictures.


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (R32BOB)*

well one person chimed in from China (gugu) and I think someone else from Italy so I'm pretty sure the problem is out there. but as I'm pretty much english speaking only, not much help for seaching foreign sites.
i hope you have some info soon! thanks


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## 220BoraT (May 11, 2004)

*Re: (R32BOB)*

go bob go!


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## R32BOB (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: (220BoraT)*























The new voltage regulators work!!!!!!!
Both headlights are burning bright on my work bench as I type. The new VR seems a bit brighter compared to the one functioning Hella one I still have. Of course I am switching out that one too. I just have to mount the new VR's and then I'll post a DIY w/pictures.


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

That is fantastic news Bob! Can't wait to see/hear more details!


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (stripethree)*

and a hero arises from the ashes to save us all!!!
go go go!
DIY request: please make the DIY for dummies


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

i'm gonna order a set of these lights on monday!!!


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## Factor (Sep 1, 2001)

*Re: (actng)*

finally i can buy a set of HID's, i look forward to getting the instructions!


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## R32BOB (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: (Factor)*

I'm still working out the DIY instructions and pictures so that they are relatively fool proof. I drove today with the lights on(including the HIDs) in 95 degree heat and everything was fine. It seems as though the problem is resolved.








Give me another day or two and I'll post the DIY in a new thread.
Thanks!


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

dun forget to post a link to that new thread in here!!


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## yum (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (actng)*

oh wow! after almost a year, i will finally be proud to turn my lights on at night... sniff sniff somebody buy this man a








if ur out here in Boston, R32BOB, the hefeweiss is on me.


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## Gmc85 (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: (yum)*

Hey, I'm in the UK and I've had my RHD Hella celis angel eyes in my car for a good six months, and they've been great. Today I dropped a HID kit in my car....worked great for a while....THEN GUESS WHAT HAPPENS!
Driver side rings have stopped working (Passenger side to all you in the US! hehe).
So it looks like its not specifically a US problem!








The rings HAVE been looking a bit dimmer than they used to be as of late. I see R32BOB says that the Lamp with his new Voltage regulator put on it seems to be brighter than the one with the Hella voltage regulator, so mabye mine were on their way out anyway??
Waiting to see R32BOB's solution before I fix my set (I've disconnected my passenger side rings now, I dont wanna drive my car around looking silly!)


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: (Gmc85)*

GMC85 - you should contact Hella DIRECTLY and demand support for this issue. They have no excuse not to support you as you reside in Europe. At the very least, they should say HIDs aren't supported in these lights. For us north americans, we can't even get a response out of Hella... or so i hear.


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## R32BOB (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: (actng)*

The DIY is DONE!
DIY is here.


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## R32BOB (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: (actng)*

The fact that your LEDs seemed to be dimmer than before seems to be your voltage regulator failing. I don't know why HIDs would hasten the failure, but I'm running the now and no problems.


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## Gmc85 (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: (actng)*

Only reason I'm hesitant to ask is because I've modded them, and its likley to make them not want to help me. Plus, for all I know they'll take them, fix them, and I'll end up getting another set that are going to die shortly down the line!
Good job on the DIY R32BOB!


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## stripethree (Jun 4, 2004)

DIY looks great!


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

R32BOB 4 Prez!!


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## 220BoraT (May 11, 2004)

*Re: (actng)*


_Quote, originally posted by *actng* »_R32BOB 4 Prez!!

x2
Great DIY!


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## Factor (Sep 1, 2001)

*Re: (220BoraT)*

amazing DYI! thanks


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## BlackMesaGTI (Apr 27, 2003)

*Miracle Celis recovery*

After having my celis installed earlier this year, the driver side rings went out. After talking to the operation I bought them from, the owner suggested that disabling the DRL's could be the only reason that the driver side rings had failed. So many months pass, no driver's rings. 
Then, on a whim, while installing a W8 overhead, i hooked the DRL's back up. That was about two weeks ago.
After work tonight, i spotted in the gleaming paint of the M3 parked in front of me, that both sides of the celis were lit!
checked back just a moment ago, and they're still both working.
what the.


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## dubdoor (Apr 23, 2006)

*Re: Miracle Celis recovery (BlackMesaGTI)*

i'm going to the parkade right now to check this....
no, not doing it for me...


_Modified by dubdoor at 10:36 PM 9-18-2006_


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## BlackMesaGTI (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: Miracle Celis recovery (dubdoor)*

That's the thing, it took at least two weeks for them to come back on. I'm sure they weren't flickering, I'm pretty obsessed with the issue.
See what happens?


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## dubdoor (Apr 23, 2006)

*Re: Miracle Celis recovery (BlackMesaGTI)*

are you running hids..??
i can't run the drls due to the issue of the ignitors burning out over time due to the reduced power.
the only option them would be to start the car with the handbrake up, the turn on the hids, drop the brake and go...everytime...even with a euroswitch this is the only way...correct...(w/o rewiring)???


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## BlackMesaGTI (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: Miracle Celis recovery (dubdoor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubdoor* »_are you running hids..??

No, I'm not running HID's. Just stock bulbs.
FYI, they're still working today, I think this is a pretty significant clue in the broader mystery of the rings failure.
I'm confused about what's hapenning on my lights, Did the Voltage regulators not fail? were they just not working because of an overvoltage situation? What caused them to miraculously start working again, so long after the DRL's were reconnected.
The fix seems stable, they were working great as i was out and about this morning.


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## R32BOB (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: Miracle Celis recovery (BlackMesaGTI)*

The DRL's only operate the low beam lights, not the city light circuit that the celis rings are powered by. It sounds to me that this is a big coincidence, unless your lights were wired in an unusual way, i.e. DRL circuit driving the celis rings rather than the low beams.
To me there is no mystery to the voltage regulators. If they have voltage in, but no voltage out, they are bad. Semiconductor electronics can and do fail in erratic ways. I see it everyday in the medical equipment that I repair. Temperature can play a big role in the functioning of semiconductors. Hot can be bad as well as cold. It is possible that the DRL's warmed the voltage regulators just enough to function properly, as they do sit under the low beam reflector. I'd bet that your VR's don't last to much longer.








Your case also demonstrates that HID drop ins have nothing to do with it.
Keep us posted on how long they work.


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## BlackMesaGTI (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: Miracle Celis recovery (R32BOB)*

Coincidentally, before they started working again, i had ordered the new drivers from florida...
I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BlackMesaGTI (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: Miracle Celis recovery (R32BOB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32BOB* »_ I'd bet that your VR's don't last to much longer.








Your case also demonstrates that HID drop ins have nothing to do with it.
Keep us posted on how long they work.

Still going strong... Passing one week with no issues now since they started working again.


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## BlackMesaGTI (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: Miracle Celis recovery (BlackMesaGTI)*

FYI, it's coming up on 3 weeks since the driver's side celis rings came back on after hooking my DRL's back up. 
They've been working without any issue since.


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## StarlightB5 (Jul 13, 2004)

*Re: Miracle Celis recovery (BlackMesaGTI)*

I just installed mine from ECS Tuning today and they had the 6000k HID sets that ECS is offering. My right side rings lasted about 10 minutes and the left side are working but are dimmed. This next week, I am going to order the new VR's and parts and get them installed. The only pisser is that I called ECS and asked them point blank about this issue and they said it had been resolved. Thank you for the right up! I do really like the way the headlights look.


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## StarlightB5 (Jul 13, 2004)

Well, I installed the new VR's per R32BOB's instructions and.....WAHOO! We have angel eyes again!
Of course time will be my test. I will get the headlights reinstalled this weekend. 
Thank you very much for the write-up, it is top notch!!







)


_Modified by StarlightB5 at 6:17 AM 12-1-2006_


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## scharged (Sep 9, 2004)

mine went out within a week of owning them, I also have the HID drop in kit as well. Drivers side angel eye works, pass side no worky


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## R32BOB (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: (StarlightB5)*

I'm glad it worked. Just how did ECSTuning resolve the issue?
BTW, Mine are still burning bright after 6 months after my repair even with HID's.
Bob


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## ECS Tuning (Oct 2, 2006)

*Re: (R32BOB)*









We've got good news! We will have a plug and play fix coming very soon for Celis owners that uses a resister made specifically for LED applications. No cutting required!
We've also been playing with colored LED's for the angel eyes, also a plug and play install.
Stay tuned for more details very soon!


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## mozcar78 (Nov 30, 2003)

*Re: (ECS Tuning - Sales)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ECS Tuning - Sales* »_








We've got good news! We will have a plug and play fix coming very soon for Celis owners that uses a resister made specifically for LED applications. No cutting required!
We've also been playing with colored LED's for the angel eyes, also a plug and play install.
Stay tuned for more details very soon!










Well now in watching this thread cause i am about to do some drop in HID's http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ElevatedGaze (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: (mozcar78)*

well i'm getting my 2nd set of celis lamps (the R gets as much love as the 20th







), so i will be watching for your updates ECS!!!
also, am i the only one that thinks 42dd should be gettin up in some of this led action?


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## ECS Tuning (Oct 2, 2006)

*Re: (ElevatedGaze)*


*ECS Celis Wiring Harness Repair Kit*
ECS Tuning shows true dedication to the VW brand by developing this repair/upgrade harness for the Hella Celius headlights. This harness developed by ECS, repairs/replaces the problematic resistor assembly in the Hella Celis lights that caused premature "burn outs" on the angle eyes. ECS has tested these in all type of of conditions & done a extremely grueling 672 hour run test. One harness per headlight

*Please click the images above for pricing and more information.*


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## .340476 (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (ECS Tuning - Sales)*

Hi. I purchased a set of FK Angel Eye Headlights for my 2002 Jetta less than a year ago (it’s 04 in the FK product cataloge here: http://20054-fk-automotive.imo...1.pdf ) .

Last week, the “halo” of the light stopped working, and I’m not sure why. Everything else; the fog lights, day time running lights, head lights, turn signals, and high beams work. I checked the bulbs in the halo, and none of the bulbs are blown. I asked my local mechanic to take a look at it, he connected a meter of some sort, (almost looked like a small set of jumper cables) to my battery and tested the halos. The funny thing is, when he tested the passenger side halo, it would illuminate the driver side halo, and vice versa.
Fuses are good too.

I love my Angel Eyes, but I’m not sure how to fix them. Can you offer any advice or solutions?

Also, do you have a copy of the wiring diagram/instillation instructions for these lights? I can’t find mine, and want to retrace all the wires.

Thank you very much for your help,


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