# Phaeton Sales



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Last Updated 13th of March 2008*
Phaeton Sales
*Production Landmark in 2006*

_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Ben:
I just finished reading an article in a VW publication that stated that the on September 5th, the 25,000th Phaeton was produced in Dresden.
Michael

*Worldwide*
2001: 371
2002: 4,262 [3403]
2003: 7,314 [5885]
2004: 9,034 [5485]
2005: 4,809 (Excluding Europe Sales) _4,414 Europe_ [6001]
2006: 5024
2007: 5711
*Europe*
Denmark 2002: 2
Denmark 2004: 6
Denmark 2005: 5
Denmark 2006: 9
Denmark 2007: 1
France 2004: 126
France 2006: Oct 7 
Finland 2003: 5
Finland 2004: 2
Finland 2005: 1
Finland 2006: 9
Germany 2002: 1,994
Germany 2003: 3,104
Germany 2004: 2,678
Germany 2005: 3,211
Germany 2006: 2,371
Germany 2007: 2,892
Germany 2008: Jan 302
Greece 2002: 3
Greece 2003: 5
Greece 2004: 7
Greece 2005: 7
Italy 2003: 153
Italy 2004: 115
Italy 2005: 190 (188 old figures)
Latvia 2003: 5
Latvia 2004: 4
Netherlands 2002: 15
Netherlands 2003: 44
Netherlands 2004: 40
Netherlands 2005: 69
Netherlands 2006: 46
Netherlands 2007:Jan-May 20 July 2 Aug 2 Sep 4 Oct 3 Nov 2
Netherlands 2008: 14
Russia 2003: _10 (1st Qtr)_
Russia 2005: 79
Slovakia 2003: 4
Slovakia 2004: 9
Slovakia 2005: 14
Slovenia 2003: 4
Slovenia 2004: 5
Slovenia 2005: 11
Spain 2006: 229
Spain 2007: Jan-May 60
Sweden 2002: 4
Sweden 2003: 11
Sweden 2004: 9
Sweden 2005: 6
Switzerland 2006: 36 (Jan-Sept)
Switzerland 2007: 57
UK 2004: 213
Europe 2002: 2,261
Europe 2003: 3,838
Europe 2004: 3,646
*North America*
Canada 2004: 93
Canada 2005: 34
Canada 2006: 7 
USA 2003: 265 (_343_)
USA 2004: 1,939
USA 2005: 820
USA 2006: May 17 June 25 July 9 Aug 11 Sept-Dec 31 (233 Jan-Dec Total) Official 235 2 remain after 2006
USA 2007: Jan 2 Feb 4 March 3 April 3 May 4 June 1
*Africa*
Angola 2004: _38_
*Asia-Pacific*
Australia 2004: 1
China HK 2006: _Oct 35_
New Zealand 2005: 4
New Zealand 2006: 5
North Korea 2005: 5
Singapore 2005/06:_50_
South Korea 2005:284
South Korea 2006:776
Taiwan 2004/2005: _300_
I've made a contact on another forum who kindly has sent me these details on Phaeton Sales. 
He is a sales stat geek, his words not mine & has access to the following countries.
I've added Asia-Pacific regions Taiwan, North & South Korea, Australia & New Zealand.

_Italic Denotes Unofficial Numbers (Round figure from existing Press & other Sources)_
_[] Denotes numbers from Volkswagen AG General Meeting Reports._
*"Europe" as defined by Automotive News Europe includes the following countries:*
Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, UK.


_Modified by phaeton at 9:40 PM 3-13-2008_


----------



## rilom3 (Feb 8, 2006)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

I would be curious to see Korea, I hear its doing well there


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (rilom3)*

So USA sold a total then of 3102.


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (rilom3)*

added Nth & Sth Korea







& Taiwan


_Modified by phaeton at 4:04 PM 3-8-2006_


----------



## XB70 (Feb 11, 2005)

Any news on when/if it will be released for sale in Oz (where I am from).
Thanks
James


----------



## benzina (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

nice work Ben,thats the info i was looking for in a previous thread.
Interesting stuff, thanks again.
p.s. hi XB70, I,m in i'm in Australia, and theirs no sign of a Phaeton release here yet,and according to VW Australia,not in the forseable future.


_Modified by benzina at 3:12 AM 3-8-2006_


----------



## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

Ben,
Thank you for posting the statistical information. It is very interesting.
Douglas


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (copernicus0001)*

The numbers make it look odd that they would pull it from NA but not other countries. There must be others reasons (perhaps political within the company, or the cost of keeping up to many service departments that sell and maintain the car in the US, ...)


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (dzier)*

Perhaps the wonderful importer had a helping hand in it.
Plus many, I am not sure if it was most or not but only one of the five dealers I talked to in this area said they would only reorded one if it was pre sold and that was back in May 05. 
Let's see that means we is less than 00.00183% of the vehicles registered in the USA (according to the US Buearu of Highway stastics) . So in my area of town the chance of seeing one in a year is still less than 00.003 of a percent (of course those odds can be changed by going to where I know there is one, ie. my driveway) . No wonder folks look at it so hard and some ask "Is that " a ........







.



_Modified by GripperDon at 12:44 PM 3-8-2006_


----------



## sirAQUAMAN64 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (GripperDon)*

Thanks.
Interesting info.


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (XB70)*


_Quote, originally posted by *XB70* »_Any news on when/if it will be released for sale in Oz (where I am from).
Thanks
James

As *benzina* said we won't be getting the Phaeton, Jutta Dierks MD of VGA has said we will possibly get the 2nd generation.
An interesting note New Zealand has now got the Phaeton but only the V8 & V10TDI.


----------



## starcar (Jul 9, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

I'm a little confused about how much redundancy there is in the figures. What countries' sales figures are included in "Europe"? 
Louis


----------



## DCubed (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (starcar)*

Wait, they are selling these things in North Korea? And we dont get it after this year?
Wiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.


----------



## Passat2001_5lover (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (CapoVWSales)*

While the total of Phaetons sold worldwide show an interesting picture, what is not said is how much profit is made in any country sales. For example, I have seen here how the German Phaetons sell for a much, much higher price than those in NA. If VW loses money on every Phaeton sold in the USA, why sell it at all? 
That said, I hope they can continue to be imported and when I am ready to replace my 2001 Passat, I plan on getting one. Heck, I may be getting the Phaeton that looks closer to the D1 (hatch back like), if those are the next ones imported.
Further, I think I read from Michael (PanEuropean) that a vast majority of Phaeton's sold in Germany are V6 diesels. Maybe we can get that one imported someday.


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (starcar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *starcar* »_I'm a little confused about how much redundancy there is in the figures. What countries' sales figures are included in "Europe"? 
Louis










Have PM'd my source will have an answer very soon.


----------



## Howard W (Mar 26, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

Very interesting. I took the #s and broke them out by year (I split the 300 in Taiwan for 2004/05 into 150 in each year).
My results were that worldwide delivery was :
2002 4,262
2003 7,314
2004 9,034
2005 4,809 
The numbers did not report figures for Europe, UK, or France for 2005(is this a reporting delay, or were they not sold in 2005?).
Putting aside the missing UK/Europe/France numbers, I thought it was interesting that worldwide Phaeton deliveries were only 4,809. I got an email from Ferrari that their worldwide deliveries in 2005 were approximately 5400, of which 834 were 4-seaters (the 612 Scaglietti). 
Adding back in UK/Europe/France based on their #s in 2004 results in an approximate total of 8794 for 2005 Phaetons. So, Ferrari claims 2005 as "a highly successful year" with 5400 deliveries and yet Phaeton is labeled a failure with just under 8800.
Howard


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (Howard W)*

*Answer to Europe Question*
"Europe" as defined by Automotive News Europe includes the following countries:
Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, UK
Cool thanks for submitting you info *Howard W*


----------



## starcar (Jul 9, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

Thanks for the clarification about "Europe".
Louis


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

Received Unofficial Europe 2005 figures from my source today. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Rounds sale units to around 92XX

From what I've heard Asia Pacific will jump Phaeton sales over the 10K units especially China, Korea & Taiwan


_Modified by phaeton at 9:03 AM 3-14-2006_


----------



## mauslick (Aug 9, 2000)

*Re: (phaeton)*

to bolster sales through the roof in the usa....all they need to do is rebadge as a posche, freshen the look a little, up the price 20k, and they will sell more than they can supply.......
everyone will be waiting in line for the "porsche luxury sedan"


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

Added Korea March results
Interestingly Audi A8 sold 98 units with Phaeton 74 units results puts VAG as leader in this segment by sales for the month MB sold 108 new S-Class'.
Added US Sales Jan-Feb 84 total


_Modified by phaeton at 4:02 PM 4-6-2006_


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (phaeton)*

Added March-April US Phaeton Sales
& 1 sale for Australia under 2004.


----------



## deepak.tripathi (Apr 14, 2006)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (Howard W)*

There was possibly a tactical error by Volkswagen in that the company predicted quite optimistic sales (10000 cars in the US if my recollection is correct). The risk in making such predictions is that when the actual sales fall far short, then the product is perceived as a failure. 
I cannot comment on the US sales figures, but they seem respectable in the rest of the world, considering the Phaeton is in the same league as the Mercedes S-Class, Jaguar XJR, BMW 7 Series, Bentley, Ferrari and so forth. 
To introduce a contentious note in the debate, I wonder how much the Phaeton (but also overall VW) sales have suffered due to the 'anti-German' sentiment in the United States because of Germany's position on the Iraq war? I have no view about the rights or wrongs, just interested in the consequences. 



_Modified by deepak.tripathi at 12:31 PM 5-3-2006_


----------



## bobschneider (Oct 12, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (deepak.tripathi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *deepak.tripathi* »_
To introduce a contentious note in the debate, I wonder how much did the Phaeton (but also overall VW) sales have suffered due to the 'anti-German' sentiment in the United States because of Germany's position on the Iraq war? I have no view about the rights or wrongs, just interested in the consequences. 


I believe MB, BMW and Porsche sales are all up in the US, so I don't think that's a significant factor. Besides, the people who tried to make a big deal about that focused on the French - and it's been years since you could buy a French car in the US


----------



## deepak.tripathi (Apr 14, 2006)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (bobschneider)*

Hi Bob,
What you say is interesting. I worked and lived in the United States nearly 30 years ago when I had a VW Beetle and a Buick Skylark. Since moving to the UK, I have visited the US from time to time, but not enough to really know the consumer behaviour in this case.


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (deepak.tripathi)*

Korean sales updated 57 units sold in April.


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

Added 2001 Production figures, Korean May Sales = 69 units.


_Modified by phaeton at 12:57 PM 6-14-2006_


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*1 in Australia, 5 in Denmark, 30 in Sweden!*

Not many Phaetons given the size of the civilized world. Why is the Phaeton such a big secret?


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: 1 in Australia, 5 in Denmark, 30 in Sweden! (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Not many Phaetons given the size of the civilized world.

Actually, Fred, depending on how you define your quanitification, from where I stand, I'd have to say the Phaeton is _very_ plentiful in the civilized world.











_Modified by chrisj428 at 8:18 AM 6-15-2006_


----------



## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: 1 in Australia, 5 in Denmark, 30 in Sweden! (chrisj428)*

Chris, that is an excellent point. Now, how many sales were in Texas, I wonder....????


----------



## Spectral (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: 1 in Australia, 5 in Denmark, 30 in Sweden! (Jack Orr)*

So they never marketed the Phaeton in Japan? 
What's up with that?


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: 1 in Australia, 5 in Denmark, 30 in Sweden! (Spectral)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spectral* »_So they never marketed the Phaeton in Japan? 
What's up with that?

I don't know I thought they sold it there. 
I checked Japanese website they don't sell it there which is odd







.


_Modified by phaeton at 10:41 AM 6-16-2006_


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

AutoWeek (June 19) had the upcoming 2009 Audi TT on its cover and a writeup on the 2009 VW Scirocco. It also claimed on the cover to reveal the "VW Secret Product Plans Through 2010 Model Year". 
Inside it said of the 2009 Phaeton: "Second-generation upmarket sedan; will VW try to interest Americans again?" We can only hope.


----------



## bobschneider (Oct 12, 2004)

*Re: 1 in Australia, 5 in Denmark, 30 in Sweden! (phaeton)*

Even a SWB Phaeton would be a huge car to deal with by the standards of Japanese streets and parking garages. Sort of like a Hummer in the old parts of a European city!


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: 1 in Australia, 5 in Denmark, 30 in Sweden! (bobschneider)*

More to the point, big cars are not too popular in Japan. A Passat is considered to be a 'huge' car, the equivilent of a 1980 size Cadillac Eldorado in America. Heck, a Golf is considered 'full size'.
Michael


----------



## Spectral (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Sales / Bentley sales*

Here are some Bentley sales numbers-
Bentley's American sales have grown eightfold since 2003, jumping from 380 cars to north of 3,000 by the end of this year.
Worldwide sales last year hit 6,700, and 5,986 of those cars were Conti GT s. It sold another 700 versions of the Arnage.


----------



## Spectral (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Japan*

There is no doubt the majority of Japanese car buyers have small cars.
However, they sell the Bentley in Japan. Why not the Phaeton? There are plenty of people in Japan with lots of disposable income. A car like the Phaeton could develop a cult following there.


----------



## cwilson (Dec 17, 2005)

Five in North Korea. So the Glorious Son-of-a-Leader has one for each day of the workweek?


----------



## Spectral (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: (cwilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cwilson* »_Five in North Korea. So the Glorious Son-of-a-Leader has one for each day of the workweek?









According to Wikipedia- 
The North Korean leader/mad man Kim Jong-Il actually does own a Phaeton. I wouldn't be surprised if he owns all five of them. I'll bet when he is on the move, multiple identical Phaetons are in his convoy to reduce the chances of him being assasinated.
I wonder if he bullet proofed any of them.


----------



## bobschneider (Oct 12, 2004)

*Re: (Spectral)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spectral* »_The North Korean leader/mad man Kim Jong-Il actually does own a Phaeton. 

Well, it is a "people's car" after all


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Spectral)*

According to Volkswagen (a European press release), the government of North Korea purchased 300 smaller VWs (I think Passats, but I cannot recall for sure) and 5 Phaetons.
My guess is that the 5 Phaetons are most likely used for official transport of high ranking guests (visitors) of the country. If someone pays a diplomatic visit to another country, the norm is that the host government picks them up - you don't expect them to walk over to the Hertz counter.








Please, let's leave criticism of other governments out of the forum. It verges perilously close to politics, which is a forbidden topic here.
Michael


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

Added USA sales of 25 units. 
Added S.Korea June sales of 51 units.


_Modified by phaeton at 7:53 PM 5-16-2007_


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (phaeton)*

July results 80 units for Sth Korea








&
9 units for US










_Modified by phaeton at 7:43 PM 8-11-2006_


----------



## Darkdashing (Aug 3, 2006)

when I asked a couple dealers here in CA about this car, they just laughed, I guess this is why?


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (Darkdashing)*

Added US August sales = 11







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Added 2006 Canadian Sales Jan-July = 7 
June best mth







with 2 sold, July worst with none sold








http://www.newswire.ca/en/rele...75835
Added *New Zealand 2005* Figures. http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/statis....html


_Modified by phaeton at 4:01 PM 9-2-2006_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (phaeton)*

Thanks for all the work you are doing to keep this thread up to date, Ben.
Michael


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Thanks for all the work you are doing to keep this thread up to date, Ben.
Michael

Its my pleasure to do this for all Phaeton Owners and Enthusiasts








Thanks for making a great Phaeton resource & friendly enviroment Michael http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Added 10 units from 2003 1st Qtr Russian Sales. http://english.pravda.ru/russi...gen-0


_Modified by phaeton at 11:25 AM 9-3-2006_


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

Added US Sept = 16








Canadian sales for September = 0








stay tuned for more










_Modified by phaeton at 10:55 AM 10-4-2006_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (phaeton)*

Hi Ben:
Thanks for the updated numbers. I don't think there are any new Phaetons left in Canada - there was only one left back in March (that I was aware of, anyway).
Michael


----------



## sirAQUAMAN64 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Ben:
Thanks for the updated numbers. I don't think there are any new Phaetons left in Canada - there was only one left back in March (that I was aware of, anyway).
Michael

And one reported like 3 months ago








I was hoping I'd see at least one more. Everytime the numbers come in it's the first one I look at.


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Ben:
Thanks for the updated numbers. I don't think there are any new Phaetons left in Canada - there was only one left back in March (that I was aware of, anyway).
Michael

Ok thanks Michael








On other news I've lost my contact who originally supplied European numbers to me.
So is anyone here a member of _Automotive News Europe_ http://europe.autonews.com/ or know of a site that release monthy sales of Phaetons in UK, Germany etc.
Thanks in Advance for any Leads or Contributions







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by phaeton at 8:05 PM 10-5-2006_


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (phaeton)*

Michael will have to confirm this with Dresden contacts http://www.busrep.co.za/index....28734
The article claims 38 Phaetons exist in Angola & all were sold in one night by the Angolian distrubutor








What this means to us: its the 1st African market to be on Phaeton Sales list


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (phaeton)*

I have not heard of that.
I usually get to Angola about once every 18 months or so (I lived there for 3 years during the civil war in the late 80s - early 90s - even got shot down once). I will have a look next time I am there. Although it is possible that the cars may have been sold and paid for (on paper), I would be surprised if any were in fact delivered to Angola - the country lacks the infrastructure needed to support such a vehicle (pavement, service facilities). Any Angolan who could afford such a vehicle would also have a residence outside the country.
Michael


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I have not heard of that.
I usually get to Angola about once every 18 months or so (I lived there for 3 years during the civil war in the late 80s - early 90s - even got shot down once). I will have a look next time I am there. Although it is possible that the cars may have been sold and paid for (on paper), I would be surprised if any were in fact delivered to Angola - the country lacks the infrastructure needed to support such a vehicle (pavement, service facilities). Any Angolan who could afford such a vehicle would also have a residence outside the country.
Michael

I think this was pre Angolan-VW scandal, so perhaps its was part of the Scandal.


----------



## dub*man (Aug 7, 2005)

im sure this has been asked before many times... but why couldn't they keep the phaeton in nar as a build to order car? Around dec we will be ready to purchase and I would like to get a 06 phay but apparently there is only V8's left


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (dub*man)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dub*man* »_im sure this has been asked before many times... but why couldn't they keep the phaeton in nar as a build to order car? Around dec we will be ready to purchase and I would like to get a 06 phay but apparently there is only V8's left









Who knows most likely politics with the upper echelon of VAG.
*South Korean Phaeton sales *
Aug = 55 
Sept = 58
YTD = 587 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*








I was almost glowing about that remark!


----------



## carsinamerica (Oct 12, 2006)

Could the smart airbag have influenced their decision? Ferrari, Lamborghini, et al, are already having to ask for exemptions because they say they can't afford the development costs; it's possible that VW decided it wouldn't be worth the trouble to re-certify the Phaeton for the US market.


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

US sales for October = 6 units - 224 YTD 2006.


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

Added Finish & Singapore sales


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

I'm in Berlin this weekend, and there are Phaetons everywhere - I think I have seen at least 10 today while I have been walking around. Every one a diesel.
Michael


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I'm in Berlin this weekend, and there are Phaetons everywhere - I think I have seen at least 10 today while I have been walking around. Every one a diesel.
Michael








TDI Power


----------



## bobm (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

Hey I just got another 2006 new one so that's one more for the US market. There were only 13 left when I started looking last month.


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (bobm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobm* »_Hey I just got another 2006 new one so that's one more for the US market. There were only 13 left when I started looking last month.

Thanks Bob I'll wait till Nov sales are released








Sad that after the 13 no new Phaetons will be sold


----------



## mikeeb777 (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

so no more Phaeton in Canada/US next year????


----------



## bobm (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (mikeeb777)*

The official end date for new Phaetons in the US was Feb 06. The new one I just got was mfg in Nov 05. When I started the negotation, there were only 13 left in the US market. After that you can only get a used phaeton here. Our only hope is that the new leadership at VW will have a change of heart, but don't hold your breath.







Here's photos of my new one http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2934066


_Modified by bobm at 7:00 PM 11-28-2006_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

Hi Ben:
I just finished reading an article in a VW publication that stated that the on September 6th, the 25,000th Phaeton was produced in Dresden.
Michael


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Ben:
I just finished reading an article in a VW publication that stated that the on September 6th, the 25,000th Phaeton was produced in Dresden.
Michael

WOW







Congrats to VW http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif
I'm posting this everywhere


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

*US* 7 sold in November







6 left

















_Modified by phaeton at 8:42 PM 5-16-2007_


----------



## bobm (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

Glad I didn't wait 2 months for my lease to be up.


----------



## AusSalzburg (Nov 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (bobm)*

I concur with PanEuropean,, I was in Berlin last month and they were everywhere. Here's a picture of a V10 TDI sitting in front of the Westin by FriedrichStrasse:


























_Modified by AusSalzburg at 12:28 AM 12-4-2006_


----------



## Francis007 (Aug 20, 2006)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (AusSalzburg)*

Hi Werner
So pleased to see so many Phaetons in Berlin. As I said in a previous post my wife and I were in Berlin for a week in January and didn't see a single one.
Also, we have just returned from a week in London where we spotted scores and scores of A8's, 7 series, the new S class and many Bentley Continentals but once again not a single,solitary Phaeton !















Frank and Min


----------



## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (AusSalzburg)*

Are those quad exhausts an aftermarket fit due to it being a diesel model? Would you know how to procure the required parts?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (fhq547)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fhq547* »_Are those quad exhausts an aftermarket fit due to it being a diesel model? Would you know how to procure the required parts?

Yes, they are an owner retrofit. You can buy all the required parts at a VW dealer, and have a VW dealer install the parts for you. Quite a few owners have done this. The only problem is that the exhaust emission from the TDI does not come out the pipes (it is squirted down at the ground) - so, with the engine running, it looks kind of funny, like an old beater that has a hole in the exhaust system somewhere before the end of the tailpipe.
Michael


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (PanEuropean)*

Hi there, I'm new here. I do not own a Phaeton but I love this car. Visited the factory in Dresden last week, its great. I actually just wanted to post the latest sales figures from germany:
november 06: 151
jan - nov 06: 2.121
The whole german sales can be found here:
http://www.autobild.de/aktuell...12889
http://www.autobild.de/aktuell...ite=1
http://www.autobild.de/aktuell...ite=2
http://www.autobild.de/aktuell...ite=3
greetings from berlin,
thomas


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (thomas b.)*

Thanks so much Thomas http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


_Modified by phaeton at 11:05 AM 12-18-2006_


----------



## Highline (Mar 13, 2003)

I saw a W12 models just a few hours ago and a V6 one week ago. That is very strange, considering also that now the VW showrooms has 3 Phaetons inside.


----------



## Digital Dude (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

This is all very interesting stuff for those who live in Korea and Australia, although I live in this little small place called the United States of America, and I'm interested in knowing where I can find a new 2006/07 model for sale. The VW web site isn't ANY help. Heck, the VW search engine doesn’t even recognize the word "Phaeton".
Regards,


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (AusSalzburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AusSalzburg* »_









I do so love the Cairo Grey! (Peter -- we haven't heard from you in a while -- how did all that body shop mess end up???)
And, Digital Dude, we have a loaded (albeit no DSP) '06 with 10k on it (Owner's demo) in Waterworld over Sonnenbeige I'm sure he'd be willing to make a _heckuva_ deal on...


----------



## Digital Dude (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (deepak.tripathi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *deepak.tripathi* »_...
I cannot comment on the US sales figures, but they seem respectable in the rest of the world, considering the Phaeton is in the same league as the Mercedes S-Class, Jaguar XJR, BMW 7 Series, Bentley, Ferrari and so forth....
_Modified by deepak.tripathi at 12:31 PM 5-3-2006_

Ferrari? You're kidding, right?
Regards,


----------



## sirAQUAMAN64 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (Digital Dude)*

Waterworld's my fave colour (which I've only seen in a handful of photos). Post-up Chris!


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

4 sold in December last Official month of sale in US market








Total by Mthly sales 233.
Official VWoA PR says 235 Phaetons for 2006 which means two left have sneaked in but not in Official Sales Mthly Reports








_read this_ 
_Quote, originally posted by *bobm* »_The official end date for new Phaetons in the US was Feb 06. The new one I just got was mfg in Nov 05. When I started the negotation, there were only 13 left in the US market. After that you can only get a used phaeton here. Our only hope is that the new leadership at VW will have a change of heart, but don't hold your breath

Recap of sales after Bobs report
7 of 13 sold in Nov.
4 of 13 sold in Dec.
So 2 left









-------------------------
Also adding 35 Phaetons that according to Wikipedia were sold in Hong Kong in October 2006.


_Modified by phaeton at 7:29 AM 1-4-2007_


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

As mentioned in another thread i think requesting the Phaeton at VW-dealers might help to bring the car back to the US.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

36 Phaeton were sold in Switzerland from jan to sep 2006:
http://www.auto-schweiz.ch/dcs...6.xls


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_36 Phaeton were sold in Switzerland from jan to sep 2006:
http://www.auto-schweiz.ch/dcs...6.xls


Thanks Thomas http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Also added Finland YTD 2006 sales of 9 units a record for Finland


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: (phaeton)*

It looks like they will discontinue Phaetons in general with the low sales numbers every where.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

no, 2009 there will be a phaeton II for sure. it's confirmed by the vw leadership.


----------



## sidcup-jon (Mar 31, 2006)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_no, 2009 there will be a phaeton II for sure. it's confirmed by the vw leadership.

Good news,thats when I have to hand back my car to V W,hope the V 8 TDI will be available in the Phaeton by then.
P.s. Phaeton are everywhere in Frankfurt as well.


----------



## Highline (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re:*

I saw today all the availible Phaeton configurations:
A V8 model
A CGT model
A FS model
and a CGTC model.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

_Quote »_Good news,thats when I have to hand back my car to V W,hope the V 8 TDI will be available in the Phaeton by then.
 There will probably even be the new V12 TDI which is introduced now in AUDIs Q 7 and maybe A 8.


_Modified by thomas b. at 12:35 PM 1-8-2007_


----------



## sidcup-jon (Mar 31, 2006)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_ There will probably even be the new V12 TDI which is introduced now in AUDIs Q 7 and maybe A 8.

A V12 TDI!!! you can't be serious.I assume this will be 6.0 Litre,so what is the torque figure,900 Nm? Who want a car with this much power and torque what are you going to do with it.The V10 torque is plenty enough,I was told by a VW guy if all the tyres are glued to the tarmac there is enough torque to rip the rim away from the tyre.
I am sure there will be a demand for the V12 TDI but its far beyond my needs for daliy travelling.
The V8 TDI will do nicely.
Rgds Jon


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

Woo Hoo Official South Korean numbers added








Read about VWs success in South Korea here http://english.chosun.com/w21d....html


----------



## sidcup-jon (Mar 31, 2006)

*Re: (phaeton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton* »_
Read about VWs success in South Korea here 

Very interesting read Ben,well done http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Rgds Jon


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (sidcup-jon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sidcup-jon* »_
Very interesting read Ben,well done http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Rgds Jon

Thanks Jon


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

250 Phaeton sold in december 2006 in Germany, 2.371 total sales (Germany) in 2006:
http://www.autobild.de/aktuell...ite=2

read about Audis V 12 TDI here:
http://www.caranddriver.com/ca....html


----------



## sidcup-jon (Mar 31, 2006)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_

read about Audis V 12 TDI here:


Wow X 3, 1,000 Nm of torque,that is in the truck league.I like to find out more about this engine,could it be 2 V6 TDI engines bolted together for all the figures suggest it.Thats how Ford produce their V 12 for the Aston Martin,they use the V6 from the Mondeo ST 24 and join them together.
I don't think the the V12 will fit into the Phaeton because of the length may be the 2009 version will have a longer bonnet.But that 1,000 Nm torque is way too excessive for a passenger car.
Rgds Jon


_Modified by sidcup-jon at 12:12 AM 1-12-2007_


----------



## sidcup-jon (Mar 31, 2006)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Thomas, 
This is my personal opinion,I still don't see the point in having such a big diesel engine in the Q 7.You want so much power because you want speed and if you can afford to buy a car like that you don't care about the running cost.Why not use the recent uprated V 8 turbo from the Cayenne or the twin turbo W12.
No matter how much i like diesel,I still miss the free revving sensation and the sound of a petrol engine but because of the fuel price in UK the mpg ( ltr per 100km where you are) equation has to come first.
Rgds Jon


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Hi Jon, you are right, that engine is maybe too big. But i think one can run it at the same costs for 100 km like a V8 petrol version. And remember, VW even has a 16 cylinder engine - in the Bugatti Veyron 16.4 ;-)


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_250 Phaeton sold in december 2006 in Germany, 2.371 total sales (Germany) in 2006:
http://www.autobild.de/aktuell...ite=2









Thanks Thomas http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Do you have access to any of your neighbouring countries sales list ?


----------



## sidcup-jon (Mar 31, 2006)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_ And remember, VW even has a 16 cylinder engine - in the Bugatti Veyron 16.4 ;-)

Hi Thomas 
The Bugatti is an engineering excercise and show the world what VW can do but at a cost of losing 5 million Euro every car they sold.
V W had already proved their ability and achievement with their diesel at the 2006 LeMann with the Audi R 8,but again may be VW wants to be the first to have V 12 diesel for passenger car.
Rgds Jon


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (sidcup-jon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sidcup-jon* »_
but again may be VW wants to be the first to have V 12 diesel for passenger car.


If so I d be proud








Someone will do it first, so why not my favourite carmaker VW


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (phaeton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton* »_
Thanks Thomas http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Do you have access to any of your neighbouring countries sales list ?

Til now i only found Switzerlands sales figures as posted above.
After emailing an Austrian Car magazin they told me that the Phaeton appears on the official sales chart only as "exot" together with other rare cars. No separate info available. I could only guess that it would be similar to Switzerland like 50 sales per year








Have not been succesful in the Netherlands lacking language knowledge







I will keep looking for more info because I m interested in that as well


----------



## sidcup-jon (Mar 31, 2006)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_
If so I d be proud








Someone will do it first, so why not my favourite carmaker VW









Mine too Thomas and thats from Bugatti to Skoda.
Rgds Jon


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_
Til now i only found Switzerlands sales figures as posted above.
After emailing an Austrian Car magazin they told me that the Phaeton appears on the official sales chart only as "exot" together with other rare cars. No separate info available. I could only guess that it would be similar to Switzerland like 50 sales per year








Have not been succesful in the Netherlands lacking language knowledge







I will keep looking for more info because I m interested in that as well









Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (phaeton)*

*Sales Denmark:*
http://www.bilmagasinet.dk/nyheder/bilsalg.asp
*Denmark 2004*
*Dec : 2* (1 diesel/1 gas) 
*Nov : 4* (all diesel)
Okt : none
*Sep : 1* (gas)
Aug : none
*Jul : 1* (diesel)
June, May, March, Feb, Jan : none
*Denmark 2003*
none








*Denmark 2002*
*Dec : 1 diesel
Nov : 1 diesel*
*Denmark 2006*
*Feb : 2*
*June : 3*
*July: 1*
*Oct: 2*
*Nov: 1*
Jan, Mar, Apr, May, Aug, Sep, Dec : none
http://www.transportmagasinet....6.pdf


_Modified by thomas b. at 12:51 PM 1-18-2007_


_Modified by thomas b. at 2:28 PM 2-17-2007_


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Thanks Thomas http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

2005's production: 6,001 Phaetons according to this page:
http://www.autozine.org/Manufacturer/Germany.htm


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_2005's production: 6,001 Phaetons according to this page:
http://www.autozine.org/Manufacturer/Germany.htm

Thanks Thomas http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Is that site a credible source ?


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (phaeton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton* »_
Thanks Thomas http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Is that site a credible source ?

I don't know. But considering that now the daily output of dresden is 26 Phaeton and the factory is running circa 250 days per year it sounds realistic. The other sales figures are very detailled as well.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Canada 2006: 7 Phaeton
http://www.cnw.ca/fr/releases/....html


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Found the Sales for the Netherlands:
2006: 46
2005: 69
2004: 40
2003: 44
2002: 15
http://www.autoweek.nl/verkoop...=2006
http://www.autoweek.nl/verkoop...=2005
http://www.autoweek.nl/verkoop...=2004
http://www.autoweek.nl/verkoop...=2003
http://www.autoweek.nl/verkoop...=2002


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Thanks Thomas


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Switzerland 2006: 43 sales
http://www.auto-schweiz.ch/dcs...6.xls


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Anyone got the total to date for the USA?


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Trying to find the USA portion of that. 
This site http://www.aicautosite.com/edi...n.asp
shows the USA at 820 for all of 2005 and 235 for all of 2006
"Phaeton" posted on this forum
USA 2003: 343
USA 2004: 1,939
USA 2005: 820 ( agrees with aicautosite )
So the USA only total since introduction is 3102, not counting 2007
Trying to find the rest. I am guessing the final number will be close to 3400 at the highest. I love having a rare car. 
Yet to see one outside of a dealer here in Arizona.



_Modified by GripperDon at 5:50 PM 2-10-2007_


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_Trying to find the USA portion of that. 
This site http://www.aicautosite.com/edi...n.asp
shows the USA at 820 for all of 2005 and 235 for all of 2006
"Phaeton" posted on this forum
USA 2003: 343
USA 2004: 1,939
USA 2005: 820 ( agrees with aicautosite )
So the USA only total since introduction is 3102, not counting 2007
Trying to find the rest. I am guessing the final number will be close to 3400 at the highest. I love having a rare car. 
Yet to see one outside of a dealer here in Arizona.

Hi Don








All my sales numbers are taken from US VW Media Press Releases over the years.
Try researching @ http://media.vw.com







all numbers are usually from YTD sales released in Jan/Feb of following year


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (phaeton)*

*US Sales*
2006/2005 YTD Sales 
http://media.vw.com/article_di...10025
2005/2004 YTD Sales
http://media.vw.com/article_di...=9812
2003 Sales
November
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman...shtml
December
http://www.vwvortex.com/cgi-bi...m=565
Nov & Dec = 265 can't find _October_ sales










_Modified by phaeton at 9:03 AM 2-11-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (phaeton)*

Hi Ben:
Thanks for providing the more accurate information. I deleted my recent post above that contained an inaccurate estimate.
For NAR, then, it kind of looks like this:
Calendar Year 2007 - negligible
Calendar Year 2006 - 235
Calendar Year 2005 - 820
Calendar Year 2004 - 1939
Calendar Year 2003 - 265 (November and December only - prior months missing)
For a grand total of* 3,259* known retail sales, not counting sales prior to October 31, 2003.
Michael


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Yup Looks like I am right on http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif as my 2003 number is for the complete year. So as I said even with some sales in 2007 the Complete Total of Phaeton in the USA (no deleting for total wrecks will be less than 3400 as the true total just broke 3100 for years before 2007 and my allowing 300 for 2007 is more than conseravitive.
Reading a later post I would not say after wrecks total for the USA Phaeton's on the road would be less than 3100 by the end of the year we could be below 3000























As I said before I like having a rare car. you W12 guys should total up the W12 sales and have a even smaller number. :ee


_Modified by GripperDon at 12:27 PM 2-14-2007_


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Found this saying 2 Phaeton in Jan 2007:
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman...shtml


----------



## bobm (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

I think that's the last of the new Phaetons available. Boy I'm glad I got mine in November and didn't wait for my lease to be up in Jan.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Jan 2007:
Germany: 101
Netherlands: 5
http://www.autobild.de/aktuell...ite=2
http://www.autoweek.nl/verkoop...and=1
Germanies car market was very weak in january, because of tax changes many people already bought in nov & dec 2006.


_Modified by thomas b. at 1:27 PM 2-16-2007_


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_Jan 2007:
Germany: 101
Netherlands: 5
http://www.autobild.de/aktuell...ite=2
http://www.autoweek.nl/verkoop...and=1
Germanies car market was very weak in january, because of tax changes many people already bought in nov & dec 2006.

Done both have being added








Very low numbers


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (phaeton)*

4 Phaetons sold in February have me puzzled








I thought all US Phaetons had been sold ????
http://media.vw.com/article_di...10088


----------



## sidcup-jon (Mar 31, 2006)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Hi Thomas,
Is the MANN lorry company part of the VAG Group.?
Rgds Jon


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Hi Jon, 
VW holds major stakes in MAN (29,9 %) and Scania (34 %) and wants to merge both companies amicably and bring in its own heavy truck operations into the tie-up.
http://www.finanznachrichten.d...5.asp
It is reported that the new chairman of the Lorry-Department will be Mr. Pischetsrieder.

_Modified by thomas b. at 4:47 AM 3-6-2007_


_Modified by thomas b. at 4:47 AM 3-6-2007_


----------



## sidcup-jon (Mar 31, 2006)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Thanks Thomas,Scania is something new to me I though there are own by Ford.
Rgds Jon


----------



## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (phaeton)*

Most likely-leftover never titled cars. I just purchased one last week. Was a dealer demo that was never titled.


----------



## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: (petermueller)*

The link below is about Korean sales. Hope it is of some assistance. 
http://english.chosun.com/w21d....html


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (sidcup-jon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sidcup-jon* »_Thanks Thomas,Scania is something new to me I though there are own by Ford.
Rgds Jon

Also to add to Thomas' post VW will add their own Lorry subsidary into the proposed JV with MAN-Scania.
So the 3 truck companies combined would be Europe's biggest but still below DaimlerChrysler.
more here on VWs Lorry operations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V...icles


_Quote, originally posted by *fhq547* »_
The link below is about Korean sales. Hope it is of some assistance. 
http://english.chosun.com/w21d....html
]
Thanks for posting







have used the link along time ago











_Modified by phaeton at 5:13 PM 3-7-2007_


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Feb 2007 sales:
Netherlands: 0 :-(
Germany: 165
As mentioned last month Germany raised the VAT from Jan 1st 2007, thta's why many people bought expensive cars already @ the end of 2006.
Other examples from Feb 2007 Germany:
(Phaeton: 165)
S-Class: 541
BMW 7: 221
A8: 347
MB CLS: 226
Lexus LS: 34
Jaguar XJ: 19
Cadillac Seville: 3 ;-)


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_Other examples from Feb 2007 Germany:
(Phaeton: 165)
S-Class: 541
BMW 7: 221
A8: 347
MB CLS: 226
Lexus LS: 34
Jaguar XJ: 19
Cadillac Seville: 3 ;-)

To get the entire picture on VW Auto Group (VAG), are there any numbers available on Bentley? Thanks.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_
To get the entire picture on VW Auto Group (VAG), are there any numbers available on Bentley? Thanks.

the complete german sales figures of feb 2007:
position 1 to 75:
http://www.autobild.de/aktuell...ite=1
position 76 to 125:
http://www.autobild.de/aktuell...ite=2
position 126 to 200:
http://www.autobild.de/aktuell...ite=3
position 201 to 283:
http://www.autobild.de/aktuell...ite=4


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (AusSalzburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AusSalzburg* »_I concur with PanEuropean,, I was in Berlin last month and they were everywhere. Here's a picture of a V10 TDI sitting in front of the Westin by FriedrichStrasse:

























_Modified by AusSalzburg at 12:28 AM 12-4-2006_

Last week I saw exactly that B-VZ 411 Phaeton in Berlin. The number sounded familiar to me, I'd seen it before right here


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: (car_guy)*

I did not realize A8 sales were right behind S class in Germany.


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (dzier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_I did not realize A8 sales were right behind S class in Germany.

Don't forget the S class is a new model. That usually gives a car a substantial boost in sales.


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*US Sales* 3 in March 
http://media.vw.com/article_di...10112
I thought all the stock was dried up months ago


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

March 2007:
Germany: 263
Netherlands : 13 (BMW 7: 16







)


_Modified by thomas b. at 6:45 AM 4-14-2007_


----------



## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

Does anyone have any specific information available on the number of W12s that were sold in NAR?


----------



## murphybaileysam (Dec 29, 2005)

I tried to get the breakdown of NAR Phaetons as well (V8, W12, 4 Seater, and by color). For some reason VW doesn't want to divulge this information. I know when I had a Corvette, you could find out the exact number of cars by color, engine size etc for each year it was produced. If someone can find out the VW stats it would be interesting to see.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (maverixz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maverixz* »_Does anyone have any specific information available on the number of W12s that were sold in NAR?

I am going to estimate that of the 3,300 Phaetons imported into the USA, no less than 300 (this is known) and probably no more than 600 (this is an estimate) were equipped with the W12 engine.
The four seat configuration is also quite uncommon. I'm going to guess (this is a guess, but an educated guess) that perhaps 10 to 15% of total NAR imports were 4 seaters. 
As for colour - probably the most common colour by far was silver:; black, grey and dark blue would be the next three most common colours, and all the other colours offered probably accounted for less than 20% of the total fleet.
Michael


----------



## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks for the information Michael. I selfishly feel good to be an owner of a rare but extraordinary vehicle like the Phaeton.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

April 2007 Germany:
Phaeton: 295 sales
BMW 7: 368
A 8: 524
S-Class: 632
CLS: 432


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

That seems respectable in comparison. Phaeton and A8 (VW Group) outsell the others.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

April 07 Netherlands: No Phaeton








http://www.autoweek.nl/verkoop...wagen


----------



## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

It's ungodly expensive to own a Phaeton in the Netherlands!


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Switzerland 1-3/2007:
11 sales
http://www.auto-schweiz.ch/dcs...7.xls
Denmark 1-3/2007:
only 1 Phaeton








http://www.bilmagasinet.dk/nyheder/bilsalg.asp



_Modified by thomas b. at 12:40 PM 6-3-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Good taste, those Swiss. Note that those figures are only for the new Phaetons sold through AMAG (the VW importer in Switzerland), and don't include the 100 or so Phaetons that were imported from Germany by a very popular Phaeton retailer just northeast of Zurich.
Michael


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

May Sales US = 4 http://media.vw.com/article_di...10152
Where are they coming from ????


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Good taste, those Swiss. Note that those figures are only for the new Phaetons sold through AMAG (the VW importer in Switzerland), and don't include the 100 or so Phaetons that were imported from Germany by a very popular Phaeton retailer just northeast of Zurich.
Michael

But shouldn't those 100 show up in the official registzer as well


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

This article says that Phaeton passed (1-3/2007) the BMW 7 in Austria, it doesn't contain sales figures but says P. ist number 3 behind S-Class and A 8 (it's german, sorry).
http://gelaendewagen.at/artike...7.php


----------



## Highline (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_This article says that Phaeton passed (1-3/2007) the BMW 7 in Austria, it doesn't contain sales figures but says P. ist number 3 behind S-Class and A 8 (it's german, sorry).
http://gelaendewagen.at/artike...7.php



Wow, true there aren't many BMW 7 in Austria (at least in the capital Vienna) but being outsold by the Phaeton. 
Porsche (VW dealer) is having a good laught at Denzel (BMW dealer) right now


----------



## Highline (Mar 13, 2003)

BTW I can't give any official sales numbers from Dubai or VW ME in general, but there's a new one in black in the showroom lately, and this year I've seen around more then the previous one. 
However not even close to the number of the Audi S8 or Quattroporte ... let alone Flying Spurs, Ferraris, Rolls Royces or even Lamborghinis. Strange place I know ...


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

May 2007 Germany:
352 Phaeton which is quite good








425 BMW 7
564 Audi A8
794 Mercedes S
http://www.kba.de/Stabsstelle/...7.pdf


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Good but dead last. ?


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Well, VW Auto Group (VAG) could look at it as 816 sales if you combine A8 and Phaeton, which puts it in 1st place. Just depends how you look at it.


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (phaeton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton* »_May Sales US = 4 http://media.vw.com/article_di...10152
Where are they coming from ????

That is a secret! Michael has been flying again...


----------



## Highline (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_Good but dead last. ?

LAST??? Since when outsolding the "mighty" LS 10:1 is being last??? 
LEXUS LS 37
GM CADILLAC SEVILLE 4
LINCOLN TOWN CAR 1


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Your post was my source.
repeated here.
May 2007 Germany:
352 Phaeton which is quite good 
425 BMW 7
564 Audi A8
794 Mercedes S


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: (car_guy)*

I am sure from a sales and profit stand point, combining the numbers is good for VW, but I would bet internally Phaeton and Audi are competing against one another to increase sales.


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Oh did not know you got to combine numbers in that case the Mercedes sales and BMW sales are off these scales.


_Modified by GripperDon at 9:48 PM 6-12-2007_


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_Oh did not know you got to combine numbers in that case the Mercedes sales ans BMW sales are off these scales.

I'm not sure I understand your post. VW and Audi are part of the same parent company. BMW and Mercedes are not.


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Maybe BMW and Mercedes had a corporate merger so Daimler could shed Chrysler.


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: (dzier)*

If Mercedes gets to combine all its models and BMW get to combine all its models. I am speaking english here. Just like the list showed VW seperate from Audi not trying to be difficult just fair.


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_If Mercedes gets to combine all its models and BMW get to combine all its models. I am speaking english here. Just like the list showed VW seperate from Audi not trying to be difficult just fair.

The list was made up of cars of a particular class or size that were sold, not all cars of all classes that were sold. If, for example, BMW sold a Mini that was the same size as the 7 series (a giant Mini!; how's that for an oxymoron!), than in terms of corporate sales in that class you could argue that you would add them together. But they don't. VW Auto Group does sell (at least) two cars in that class, so it does make (some) sense to add them together. 
Obviously the cost of selling two separate brands of cars in the same class is higher than selling only one. One would expect that fact to cut into profits.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_Good but dead last. ?

Considering that the Phaeton is a newcomer while BMW 7 is already 4th or 5th generation the VW is doing fine in germany. Nobody expected the new VW to outsell s-class & co. Maybe Phaeton II or III will do so


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

May 2007 Netherlands: 2 Phaeton
http://www.autoweek.nl/verkoop...and=5


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Spain 2006: 229 sales
http://es.volkswagen.com/vwcms....html
I think it says "similar to 2005"








Spain Jan 2007: 40 sales 
http://es.autoblog.com/2007/02...-2007/

Italy 2003: 153 sales
Italy 2005: 190 sales
http://webpress.unraeservizi.c...0.pdf




_Modified by thomas b. at 2:07 PM 6-23-2007_


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Muchos Gracias







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

June 2007
Very good numbers from germany !
767 S-Class
540 BMW 7
538 Phaeton
392 A 8
http://www.kba.de/Stabsstelle/...7.pdf
(Scroll down to "Oberklasse")
Netherlands: no sales in June :/


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

June US Sales = 1 http://media.vw.com/article_di...10171


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton* »_*Last Updated 7th of July 2007*
Phaeton Sales
*Production Landmark*
Germany 2007: Jan 101 Feb 165 March 263 Apr 295 May 352 Jun 238
_Modified by phaeton at 11:35 AM 7-7-2007_

It's 538 in June not 238


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_
It's 538 in June not 238









Done


----------



## Highline (Mar 13, 2003)

Wow so the refresh in design and especially the new diesel engine are really doing what they were supposed to do.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_
To get the entire picture on VW Auto Group (VAG), are there any numbers available on Bentley? Thanks.

Bentley sales in Germany:
2006: 525
2005: 521
2004: 357
2003: 39
2002: 57
2001: 51
2000: 54
http://www.kba.de/Abt3_neu/FZ/...6.pdf


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Switzerland Jan - June 07: 18 sales
http://www.auto-schweiz.ch/dcs...7.xls
Netherlands July 07: 2 sales
http://www.autoweek.nl/verkoop...and=7



_Modified by thomas b. at 2:43 PM 8-4-2007_


----------



## CA_W12 (Mar 22, 2007)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

WOW.....In the first 6 months of 2007 they sold 5 (!) Bugatti Veyron's in Switzerland??!!


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (CA_W12)*

Yeah - the parking spaces there are tight, and that Bugatti is not very long. It's easier to park than a Phaeton.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Germany July 07: 212 Sales
http://www.kba.de/Stabsstelle/...7.pdf


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

France Oct 2006: 7 Sales
http://es.autoblog.com/2006/11...ancia/
Spain Jan - May 2007: 60 sales
http://es.autoblog.com/2007/06...-2007/




_Modified by thomas b. at 6:46 AM 8-12-2007_


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

According to this reliable source the Dresden Factory produced 5.024 Phaeton in 2006 and 5.980 in 2005:
http://www.automobilwoche.de/a...ITORY



_Modified by thomas b. at 1:55 PM 8-17-2007_


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

only 91 sales in august in germany, holidays ...
http://www.kba.de/Stabsstelle/...7.pdf


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Netherlands August 2007: 2 sales
http://www.autoweek.nl/verkoop...and=8
MB CLS: 1 sale


----------



## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

The Prime Minister of Denmark is driven around in a Phaeton. Add that one if you already haven't.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Sep 07:
Germany: 160 sales
Netherlands: 4 sales 
http://www.autoweek.nl/verkoop...and=9



_Modified by thomas b. at 11:08 AM 10-11-2007_


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Oct 07 Germany: 222 sales
Jan - Sep 07 Switzerland: 35 sales



_Modified by thomas b. at 12:58 PM 11-7-2007_


----------



## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Where are UK figures published?*

I can't see any recent sales stats for the UK.

It would also be interesting to know the pre-registration numbers as it indicates the ratio of cars specified and ordered by eager customers to those ordered speculatively by VW UK and sold through the network as used low milers.
But any source of info would be good. Where do I look?


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: Where are UK figures published? (Aristoteles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aristoteles* »_I can't see any recent sales stats for the UK.

It would also be interesting to know the pre-registration numbers as it indicates the ratio of cars specified and ordered by eager customers to those ordered speculatively by VW UK and sold through the network as used low milers.
But any source of info would be good. Where do I look?

Til now i only found the usual UK Top 10 but none saying something about the Phaeton sales


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Oct 07 Netherlands: 3 sales
http://www.autoweek.nl/verkoop...nd=10


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Nov 07 Germany: 250 sales, YTD 2.649 sales
Nov 07 Netherlands: 2 sales, YTD 33 sales


_Modified by thomas b. at 12:11 PM 12-7-2007_


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Russia 2005: 79 sales
http://www.autoweek.nl/forum/r...age=2


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

2007 is over and 2.892 Phaeton were sold in Germany (243 in December)







That's 22 % more than 2006.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

57 sales in 2007 in switzerland 
http://www.auto-schweiz.ch/dcs...7.xls


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

january 2008: 302 sales in germany, a lot more than bmw 7 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
and 50 sales for the bentley continental http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://www.kba.de/Stabsstelle/...8.pdf
netherlands: 14 sales in january 08, just 3 behind the bmw 7: 
http://www.autoweek.nl/verkoop...and=1



_Modified by thomas b. at 12:15 PM 2-8-2008_


----------



## JulianBenjamin (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

The S-Class is kicking ass over there. 
But when you combine the A8+Phaeton+Bentley they are more than the S-Class+Maybach. So VW still wins.


----------



## sirAQUAMAN64 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (JulianBenjamin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JulianBenjamin* »_The S-Class is kicking ass over there. 

Here too. By a HUGE margin.


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (sirAQUAMAN64)*

Thanks Thomas will update now


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

New Zealand
*2006* http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/statis...tml#v
*2005* http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/statis....html


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

_Quote »_But when you combine the A8+Phaeton+Bentley they are more than the S-Class+Maybach. So VW still wins.

A bit unfair leaving out the CLS and CL for Merc








Still, interesting to see the Phaeton outselling the 7-Series.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (JulianBenjamin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JulianBenjamin* »_The S-Class is kicking ass over there. 


That's true but it's sales decreased 50 % during the last 6 years:
jan 2002: 1.403 sales
jan 2008: 647 sales


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

Found Global sales for 06 & 07 in the VWAG Annual Shareholders Meeting package.
Will search others for previous years if I can find them


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

feb '08
germany: 228 sales
netherlands: 3 sales


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

spain 2004: 152 sales
http://www.autobild.es/articulos/70/


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

march 08: 239 sales in germany


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Switzerland jan-mar 2008: 12 sales
http://www.autoschweiz.ch/dcs/...8.xls


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

April 2008
Germany: 275 Phaeton + 78 Bentley.
Netherlands: 1 Phaeton


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

VW announced that 5.700 Phaeton have been sold w o r l d w i d e in 2007. Estimated result for 2008 is 7.000.
http://www.net-tribune.de/article/110508-58.php


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

The P outsold the BMW 7 again in May in Germany: 248 Phaeton vs. 219 BMW. Beside that 489 A8, 821 S-Classes an 38 Bentley Conti were sold.
1 Phateon was sold in the Netherlands, and 3 BMW 7.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

20 sales in Spain (1-5/2008)
http://es.autoblog.com/2008/06...-bmbv/


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Bentley world sales of the last years:
http://www.autozine.org/Manufa...ntley


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

June-Sales in Germany:
633 S-Class
343 A8
319 BMW 7
316 Phaeton
50 Bentley
37 Jaguar XJ
24 Lexus LS
2 Rolls-Royce
No Phaeton was sold in the Netherlands.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Jan - June in Switzerland:
31 Phaeton
113 Bentley
28 Lamborghini
2 Bugatti Veyron
http://www.autoschweiz.ch/dcs/...8.xls


----------



## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

Do the Japanese use the LS460 (other than when abroad)?


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Sales in July 08:
Netherlands: 2 , YTD 21
Germany: 257, YTD 1.865


----------



## Bill Sweeting (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: Phaeton Sales (phaeton)*

I may be able to confirm that 2 2006 Phaetons were left over into 2007. Well at leats one anyway
My 2006 Nocturn Abergine V8 Has a IN-Service Date of 02-011-2007! AND it was Leased to VW headquaters, (Mich.,) for thier Credit Dept in Phoenix. Only owner before me was VW Corp I have the documentation that they leased the car back to themsleves for a year and put 20,000 Miles on it> My warrenty is good to Feb 2011! and 30,000 more miles


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

August: 
4 sales in the netherlands, YTD 25.
129 sales in germany, YTD 1.994.


_Modified by thomas b. at 3:40 AM 9-17-2008_


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

I finally found the sales figures for AUSTRIA:
2005: 76 (A8: 214)
2006: 77 (A8: 217)
2007: 63 (A8: 226)
2008: 35 (A8: 111) Jan - July


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

September
Germany: 126 sales, YTD 2.120
Netherlands: 5 sales, YTD 30


----------



## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Tom,
That is good information. What color do you think the other 2006 phaeton was. Enjoy your 2006 phaeton. I have been enjoying my 2004. Wouldn't mind upgrading to a 2006. 
Not sure how many they sold for the model year 2006. I'm sure it was not many in the USA.


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Hi Thomas,
Did you think of putting all those numbers into some kind of excel sheet, in order to be able to look at some curves, to see the evolution of the sales, and possibly correlate them with a new version coming out ?
Thanks for your great and patient job.
P.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (Zaphh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zaphh* »_Hi Thomas,
Did you think of putting all those numbers into some kind of excel sheet, in order to be able to look at some curves, to see the evolution of the sales, and possibly correlate them with a new version coming out ?

Hi Zaphh, 
I won't find enough spare time for an excel sheet







Maybe the topic starter would like to do one ? 
What we can say for sure is that P's production is close to number 40.000 now, and not to forget another 40.000 Bentley








Anyway, just got the Switzerland sales for Jan-Sep 2008:
361 S-Class 
175 A8 
*156 Bentley 
36 Phaeton *
34 BMW 7


----------



## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

It's good to see the Phaeton has the BMW 7 series licked in some markets. But is VW making money or losing it on the Phaeton range?
I guess that limos traditionally make bigger margins than lesser models, but how much longer can Dresden's Glass Factory stay afloat on discounted sales below 10,000/year? And can Bentley make up the difference?


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (Aristoteles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aristoteles* »_But is VW making money or losing it on the Phaeton range?

I'm sure VW is making money with that Phaeton/Bentley-Platform. Both have been produced now around 40.000 each, e.g. til 2010 a 100.000 cars will be sold. That should make it profitable, also considering that the construction of the dresden-factory was financially supported by the county of saxony.


----------



## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Demand for limos in 2009 & 2010 is likely to fall by in excess of 50%. With one magnificent but expensive to run factory devoted to assembling one beautiful but expensive to run model, what does the future hold? 
I read today Porsche announced it holds 42% of VAG shares and share options will give it 74% during 2009. What will Wiedeking do as soon as he has control? I fear he will go through VW like a dose of salts ruthlessly rationalising the model lineup, so bye bye Phaeton (will Bentley survive). Anytihng the smacks of the excesses of the Piech era will likely go.
the Porsche company nearly died in the early '90s and was born again only after a savage cost-cutting exercise. My guess is that we will see something similar happening at VAG in 2009 and whole lines may go.
Can anyone give me some hope on this??


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (Aristoteles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aristoteles* »_Anytihng the smacks of the excesses of the Piech era will likely go.

I don't think so. Some anti-piech-newspapers already tried to make people think like this here in germany. but w. recently confirmed that every decision in the future will be made by BOTH shareholder-families (piech & porsche).
Here're some october sales:
germany 241 (bmw 7 made 292), YTD 2.361
netherlands: 1 YTD 31


----------



## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: (Aristoteles)*

VW is doing quite well financially, and made substantial profit in the last fiscal year. So, why would anyone even think of major change.


----------



## uk_nick (Mar 31, 2006)

Bentley sales are tanking in the UK. The Bentley dealer in Exeter, covering the whole south west peninsula, just went bust. Had not sold a single new car in 3 months. That's right - not one, in the whole quarter.
There's a very cold wind blowing in the UK at the moment !


----------



## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: (uk_nick)*

On Tuesday Bentley motors made 300 workers redundant


----------



## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

Trouble is we're in entirely new territory. Something happened on 15th September that changed everything: Lehman Brothers bank was thrown to the wolves, opening a financial black hole that will take years to evaporate, if ever it does. The coming recession must engulf numerous large motor manufacturers (one US, one French, two or three from the Far East; none of the Germans imo). Inevitably some worthwhile model lines will disappear from the surviving manufacturers. I hope the Phaeton is miraculously spared because the more I drive other cars, the more I admire this one. I can't see BMW abandoning the 7 series nor Mercedes the S Class (although the absurd Maybach will perhaps be allowed to fade out). 
I can see VW looking hard at the option of phasing out the Phaeton, but it shouldn't: instead, it should reposition it as the sensible plutocrat's limo (which it is) and leave the Bentley as the truly mad driver's car that it is.
It's a real shame that the Exeter Bentley dealership went down but sadly, we'll see some of the big dealer chains disappear from January with only the best financed surviving through 2009. Again, in my opinion.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

according to this (german) article
http://www.produktion.de/news/detail/29904
volkswagen reached in 2008's 3rd quarter a higher profit than toyota !


----------



## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: (Aristoteles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aristoteles* »_opening a financial black hole that will take years to evaporate, if ever it does

Come on, _if ever it does_?. It's not like there have never been recessions before, and furthermore, so far, this is a rather mild one (at least in the U.S.), if you obviate the screaming media's "the sky is falling" chicken littleness.


----------



## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Itzmann's screaming chickens*

Dear me. The citizens of Pompeii watched Vesuvius erupting for several days, saying: Well, at least the sky isn't falling down!


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

_Quote »_This is a rather mild one (at least in the U.S.)

Blimey, I think I've just found the definition of optimism - Lehmans gone, AIG gone, Fannie Mae nationalised, Citi imploding and cutting 54,000 jobs, Goldmans' shares dropping, Ford & GM on the verge of bankruptcy and the 'Paulson Plan' being changed at the drop of a hat but it's still quite mild!
My prediction is for the FTSE to hit about 3,300 at its nadir and for the recovery to take about 2 to3 years...
Harry


----------



## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (thomas b.) VW profits higher than Toyota's*

But this profit came about largely though extraordinary stock market transactions in its own equity, linked to the struggle against Porsche's takeover manoeuvres. Same as with Porsche's own profits, which lead to Porsche being described as a hedge fund with a show room attached. VAG's capitalisation was larger than any other quoted company in the world for a few brief days. I'm sure the German-owned car manufacturers will all come through intact if slightly bruised. Don't write me off as a complete pessimist!


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

VW today announced that more than 6.000 Phaeton will be sold this year, after 5.711 in 2007 and 5.024 in 2006.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

169 sales in november in germany, YTD 2.530.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Germany: 427 sales in December.
2008's final results in Germany:
S-Class 8.077 
A8: 4.446 
BMW 7: 4.226 
*Phaeton: 2.957 
Bentley: 463 *
Jaguar XJ: 360 
Lexus LS: 292 
Maybach: 27 
Rolls Royce: 24


----------



## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

thats good for the economy and stuff. 3,000 Phaeton in europe i should have no problem gettin an used 09 when i go to spain


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

It's always worth remembering that the Phaeton is a first generation product whereas all its major competitors have been through at least 2 iterations.


----------



## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_VW today announced that more than 6.000 Phaeton will be sold this year, after 5.711 in 2007 and 5.024 in 2006.

I guess that might be manufactured or registered. I suspect however most UK sales to the consumer are of pre-registered vehicles. But these are magnificent cars and I very much hope the Phaeton will weather the recession! 
Thomas - do you yet have the final global sales figures for 2008 - and can you give any breakdown between the various models?


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (Aristoteles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aristoteles* »_
I guess that might be manufactured or registered. I suspect however most UK sales to the consumer are of pre-registered vehicles. But these are magnificent cars and I very much hope the Phaeton will weather the recession! 
Thomas - do you yet have the final global sales figures for 2008 - and can you give any breakdown between the various models? 

I'm sure the sales are nearly the 6.000 that were manufactured. As mentioned 2.957 were registered in Germany (2.572 of those were diesels, 20 % went to private owners, 80 % to companies including "one-man-companies" like achitects or lawyers, no further details available), 31 in the Netherlands, around 60 in Austria and maybe 50 in Switzerland etc. So Europe-sales should be around 4.000.
Bentley sold 7.605 cars (-24,1 %), Bugatti 73 Veyron (-9,9 %) and Lamborghini 2.430 (+ 1 %). (worldwide)


_Modified by thomas b. at 5:40 AM 1-16-2009_


----------



## Solipsism12 (Feb 18, 2008)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

All indications seem to be that Porsche is still planning on releasing the 4dr Panamera as a 2010 model, so I don't see why there should be plans to stop producing Phaetons or Audi A8/S8 either.


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

_Quote »_I don't see why there should be plans to stop producing Phaetons or Audi A8/S8 either

Wee Wendelin Wiedeking has mentioned quite a few times that there will be no "sacred cows" at a Porsche-run VW. Given that he's openly criticised the Phaeton as a vanity project, I think it's quite clear what he's talking about...


----------



## adamkodish (Mar 5, 2006)

*Re: (Prince Ludwig)*

Do we know how Porsche raised the money to purchase the stake in VW?
If they borrowed a lot of it, they could experience some problems of their own fairly soon.


----------



## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (adamkodish)*

Porsche acquired forward options on VW at an agreed price. Then they bought a lot of VW shares which ramped up the price at a time when all the hedge funds were shorting VW. Against all expectations (Porsche apart) VW shares suddenly went vertically up in price because there were almost no VW shares left for the hedge funds to deliver their forward promises. The hedgies were thus forced to buy VW at any price or renege on their contracts to deliver, and go belly up. 
At that point Porsche kindly released some of their huge VW share mountain to the desparate hedge funds and made a killing.
Porsche then took delivery from the hedge fund of the shorts. In effect Porsche was selling its VW shares at a huge premium to the hedge funds who then had to deliver the same shares back to Porsche at a much lower price and took a big bath.
Result: Porsche made a larger cash profit in 2008 from trading shares than its annual gross turnover. Hence its shares went up and up too. Porsche now holds 75% of VW and is sitting on a cash mountain. QED.
It smacks of market manipulation but in Germany it's not illegal (yet).
Anyone like to come in on this?


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (Aristoteles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aristoteles* »_ Porsche acquired forward options on VW at an agreed price. Then they bought a lot of VW shares which ramped up the price at a time when all the hedge funds were shorting VW. Against all expectations (Porsche apart) VW shares suddenly went vertically up in price because there were almost no VW shares left for the hedge funds to deliver their forward promises. The hedgies were thus forced to buy VW at any price or renege on their contracts to deliver, and go belly up. 
At that point Porsche kindly released some of their huge VW share mountain to the desparate hedge funds and made a killing.
Porsche then took delivery from the hedge fund of the shorts. In effect Porsche was selling its VW shares at a huge premium to the hedge funds who then had to deliver the same shares back to Porsche at a much lower price and took a big bath.

That's exactly what happened.

_Quote, originally posted by *Aristoteles* »_Result: Porsche made a larger cash profit in 2008 from trading shares than its annual gross turnover. Hence its shares went up and up too. Porsche now holds 75% of VW and is sitting on a cash mountain. 

Porsche's profit (8.57 bn €) in 2007/2008 was actually higher than their turnover (7.4 bn €). That has never happened before








http://www.welt.de/welt_print/....html
(german) 
What i read is that porsche right now owns 50,x % of the VW-shares and has options on further 24,x %.


_Modified by thomas b. at 12:53 PM 1-16-2009_


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Jan 09:
107 sales in Germany and 10 in the Netherlands


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Feb 09:
267 sales in Germany and 7 in the Netherlands.
German figures are:
472 S-Class
390 BMW 7
267 Phaeton
149 A8
112 CLS
18 Bentley
2 RR
1 Maybach
and very few lexus and jaguars











_Modified by thomas b. at 3:04 AM 3-7-2009_


----------



## Highline (Mar 13, 2003)

What's up with the Audi A8?


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (Highline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Highline* »_What's up with the Audi A8?

Next generation is coming soon.


----------



## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

And the next-generation Phaeton model is coming when? Do we know?


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (Aristoteles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aristoteles* »_And the next-generation Phaeton model is coming when? Do we know?

VW-Manager Dr. Hackenberg said in a german newspaper last week, 
"new phaeton is planned, but will still take a while. til then we'll improve the current phaeton one more time. the upcoming model will have a similar size, but will differ more in form and content from the other VAG-top-models."

My guess is, they'll start the new A8 at the end of this year/spring 2010 and release a new phaeton in 2011 to let the A8 have it's "show".


----------



## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

That is really good news. I had feared the current economic climate would deter them but _very_ much hoped it wouldn't. 
I really look forward to the next part of the Phaeton story.
(But still will cherish the one I already have!







)


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

_Quote »_release a new phaeton in 2011 to let the A8 have it's "show"

It's amazing how people forget that the Phaeton went on sale (in Germany, at least) in 2002 compared to 2003 for the D3 A8 and Bentley CGT. It's why it always irks me slightly when people say the Phaeton borrows components from those two even though it's the other way round...


----------



## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Meet the D3s*

Think of the D3 family as legitimate IVF children of 'Doctor' Ferdinand Piech's Fertility Clinic. 
The order in which these offspring emerged is of lesser importance than the fact they all carry Piech's genius-level DNA.
Actually, I wish I hadn't said that.


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

I seem to recall that Doctor Piech already has 12 real children. From 3 women.
Harry


----------



## Highline (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: (Prince Ludwig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Prince Ludwig* »_
It's amazing how people forget that the Phaeton went on sale (in Germany, at least) in 2002 compared to 2003 for the D3 A8 and Bentley CGT. 

True the Phaeton went on sale in Germany on May 31st, 2002 (I've seen them first 2 - 3 months earlier), but the A8 also went on sale by the end of the same year. I remember that I saw the first one in Vienna, Austria in late December same year.


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

I'm not sure about that - every source I've seen for the A8 says it went on sale in early 2003.
Harry


----------



## Highline (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: (Prince Ludwig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Prince Ludwig* »_I'm not sure about that - every source I've seen for the A8 says it went on sale in early 2003.
Harry

Maybe a pre-delivery, maybe a show/test car, maybe used by a member of Porsche family which are Austrians. Whatever it was, the production model was already officially unveiled earlier.
I'm sure about the year, because in the last nine years I've travelled back to Europe only twice during the Winter season.
I have been lucky to see the 12 black W12 Phaetons when VW first showed them to the Intl' press in Dubai, months before they went on sale. The same event that Jeremy Clarkson drove one (with limiter removed) up to 200MPH. 
I have been also lucky to have spoted the Maybach, before it was unveiled to the public in NYC, in en event held some weeks later.


----------



## Highline (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: (Prince Ludwig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Prince Ludwig* »_I'm not sure about that - every source I've seen for the A8 says it went on sale in early 2003.
Harry

Maybe a pre-delivery, maybe a show/test car, maybe used by a member of Porsche family which are Austrians. Whatever it was, the production model was already officially unveiled earlier.
I'm sure about the year, because in the last nine years I've traveled back to Europe only twice during the Winter season.

I have also been lucky to see the 12 black W12 Phaetons when VW first showed them to the Intl' press in Dubai, months before they went on sale. The same event that Jeremy Clarkson drove one (with limiter removed) up to 200MPH. 
I have been also lucky to have spotted the Maybach, before it was unveiled to the public in NYC, in en event held some weeks later.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_
Italy 2003: 153 sales
Italy 2005: 190 sales
http://webpress.unraeservizi.c...0.pdf


Italy 2006: 103 sales
Italy 2007: 110 Sales
http://www.interautonews.it/st...6.xls




_Modified by thomas b. at 8:25 AM 3-18-2009_


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Here's the official production number for 2008: 6.189 Phaeton.
http://www.volkswagenag.com/vw...d.pdf


----------



## MoreA4 (Mar 15, 2002)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Very nice find. I can't read German (perhaps I should) , but can make sense of it. Thank you!
Michael http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by MoreA4 at 1:02 PM 3-22-2009_


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

283 march-sales in germany, 4 in the netherlands.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

255 april-sales in germany and 1 in the netherlands.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (MoreA4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MoreA4* »_Very nice find. I can't read German (perhaps I should) , but can make sense of it. Thank you!
Michael http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by MoreA4 at 1:02 PM 3-22-2009_

Reading the official VW-Company-Reports of the former years back til 2002 delivers a Phaeton-production of 
*37,698* by Dec 31st 2008.
Obviously Phaeton No. 40,000 will produced this month












_Modified by thomas b. at 8:47 AM 5-10-2009_


----------



## 1541432usmc (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: 1 in Australia, 5 in Denmark, 30 in Sweden! (phaeton)*

I have an idea that the Japanese are not that hot on the Phaeton because of the narrow streets. Their streets are built to accomodate
the Honda Civic and Toyota Corrola.
The Phaeton is a monster car.....My 04 Phaeton is 14 inches longer and 5 inches wider than the 03 Lexus GS it replaced.
Don
St. Louis


----------



## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: 1 in Australia, 5 in Denmark, 30 in Sweden! (1541432usmc)*

The Phaeton doesn't really look like a luxury barge, but when i went to park her in my garage I only then realized how long and wide it was. I certainly understand why it would not be popular wherever space was limited.
I think that it is great that the Phaeton is a much larger car than appearances would suggest.


----------



## murphybaileysam (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: 1 in Australia, 5 in Denmark, 30 in Sweden! (Jxander)*

The LWB is what makes it longer. Because the trunk and hood are pretty much the same size as the other luxury sedans on the market you don't realize the length of the car with the additional rear leg room. Many owners have never sat in the back seat of the car. Once you do and sense that you have almost limo style leg room, you see why the car just clears that garage door!
A majority of the cars in Europe and Asia seem to be the short or regular wheel base to accomodate the narrower streets, and smaller parking spaces.


_Modified by murphybaileysam at 6:03 PM 5-11-2009_


----------



## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

Any comparison updates on the Phaeton sales for the first 6 months of 2009 in relation to the other luxo barges?


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

sales in the first 6 months of 2009 in germany:
BMW 7: 3.643 
MB S 3.230
Audi A8 1.244
VW Phaeton 1.227 (incl. 1.013 V6 TDI)
MB CLS 948
BMW 6: 623
Jaguar XJ 145
Bentley 130
Maserati QP 74
Lexus LS 37
Cadillach Seville 28
Maybach 18
Rolls Royce 10


_Modified by thomas b. at 5:50 AM 7-8-2009_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

As always, thanks for the update, Thomas.
Michael


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

got also the sales for the netherlands jan-june 2009:
176 BMW 7
73 MB S-Class
41 Audi A8
25 VW Phaeton
17 BMW 6
12 Jaguar XJ
12 Lexus LS


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

spain jan-june 2009:
212 BMW 7
190 MB S-Class
72 Audi A8
29 VW Phaeton
20 Lexus LS
http://www.repsol.com/SE/Motor...cas=3


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Is the BMW 7 a new vehicle? It seems to be clobbering everything else.
Michael


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Yes, BMW 7 is a new model.


----------



## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Thanks Thomas. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re:*

Jan - Sep 2009 in Germany:
5.426 BMW 7
4.804 MB S-Class
1.567 A8
1.506 VW Phaeton
1.384 MB CLS
785 BMW 6
504 MB CL
418 Panamera (just started)
207 Jag XJ
179 Bentley
105 Maserati Quattroporte
48 Lexus LS
47 Cadillac Seville/CTS
26 Maybach
14 RR Phantom


----------



## benzina (Feb 4, 2006)

I gotta say...i love this thread,and comparing the sales statistics of this catagory of top-line cars per country. 
I'm interested to know,how are these sales statistics are obtained? Is there a special website? 
Could i for instance, find the sales statistics per country of specific motorbike or scooter catagory's? 
It's very impressive. Thanks.



_Modified by benzina at 9:31 PM 10-21-2009_


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (benzina)*


_Quote, originally posted by *benzina* »_
I'm interested to know,how are these sales statistics are obtained? Is there a special website? Could i for instance, find the sales statistics per country of specific motorbike or scooter catagory's? 
It's very impressive.

Since i'm based in germany i find the statistics every month published by the responsible authority and afterwards in several german newspapers.
the sales in other (european) countries can be found on homepages of local car-magazines, blogs or in the national homepages of the carmakers in their "press room" sections etc.
the european sales by manufacturer can be found at http://www.acea.be


----------



## benzina (Feb 4, 2006)

Thanks thomas b. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Sales in Switzerland januar-september 2009:
285 S-Class
201 BMW 7
81 Bentley
80 Maserati Quattroporte
79 MB CLS
68 A8
54 BMW 6
46 Panamera
41 MB CL
22 RR Phantom
22 Jag XJ
17 VW Phaeton
16 Lexus LS
5 Veyron
2 Maybach


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

40 sales in spain from january-september 2009


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

According to this (german) article 1.400 Phaeton were sold this year in China (until now), for 2010 VW expects 2.000 sales which probably will be more than in germany.
http://www.welt.de/die-welt/mo....html


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

2009-sales-figures for:
GERMANY
7,352 BMW 6
6,617 Mercedes S
2,013 Audi A8
1,955 VW Phaeton
1,819 Mercedes CLS
1,102 Porsche Panamera
931 BMW 6
612 Mercedes CL
265 Jaguar XJ
122 Maserati Quattroporte
243 Bentley
108 Lamborghini
61 Lexus LS
31 Maybach
14 RR Phantom
SWITZERLAND
362 Mercedes S
294 BMW 7
143 Porsche Panamera
100 Bentley
82 Lamborghini
74 Audi A8
51 VW Phaeton
25 RR Phantom
17 Lexus LS
3 Maybach
NETHERLANDS
277 BMW 7
169 Mercedes S
71 Audi A8
49 Porsche Panamera
31 VW Phaeton
19 Lexus LS
12 Bentley

4,500 Phaeton have been manufactured in Dresden in '09.


_Modified by thomas b. at 1:50 PM 1-20-2010_


----------



## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Wonder what Uk sales are. A8 sales look poor I cant believe how many 7 series BMW sell. Horrible looking car.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (alera)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alera* »_Wonder what Uk sales are. A8 sales look poor I cant believe how many 7 series BMW sell. Horrible looking car.

Don't have any UK-figures








BMW is selling the 7 for quite low monthly payments in germany, maybe a reason for the success. And its brandnew while A8 MK2 - production has ended. Btw, Golf MK 6 was very successful and No 1 again in '09, selling incredible 366,000 units (in germany).


----------



## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Really nice cars golfs. Better than the A3 and miles ahead of 1 series another horrific looking car by Bmw big compromises on internal space as well.
Fair point about hte A8 it was getting long in the tooth thats why I sold mine. Brilliant cars but very poor dealership support over here in UK.


----------



## ruddyone (Feb 9, 2009)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Any ideas on figures for China? I thought I heard a lot were being shipped over there.
Best,


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (ruddyone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruddyone* »_Any ideas on figures for China? I thought I heard a lot were being shipped over there.


VW of China - Boss Vahland recently said in an german interview, that "almost" 2,000 Phaeton have been sold there in 2009 and 2,500 are expected to be sold in 2010. This makes China probably the biggest Phaeton-Market in 2010.
In an interview i posted here on nov 21st he was talking about 2,000 China-sales in 2010. However, Phaeton is obviously doing fine there.


_Modified by thomas b. at 1:39 AM 1-21-2010_


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

China's probably a bit like South Korea - because the Touareg was the first VW launched there there's no perception of the VW brand being "cheap" so Phaeton sales have been much higher than in the EU and US...
Harry


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (Prince Ludwig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Prince Ludwig* »_China's probably a bit like South Korea - because the Touareg was the first VW launched there there's no perception of the VW brand being "cheap" so Phaeton sales have been much higher than in the EU and US...
Harry

Exactly. There was an article in the "Volkswagen-Magazin" No. 4/09 about south corea saying, that since its launch until summer 2009 around 3,000 phaeton have been shipped to south corea.


----------



## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: (thomas b.)*

Interesting so basically the Phaeton is selling OK In Germany and very well in China (considering its an emerging market) - 2 of the 4 biggest worldwide car sales markets. 
Its also picking up some Ok numbers collectively from the smaller nations. I would be intersted to see the Uk numbers, my guess is 200 - 300 cars a year at least especially at the price I paid the VW dealer for mine the salesman said they sell every pre reg car they get in at that price and very quickly.
I dont know what the yearly capacity is at Dresden and how many cars they would like to turning out from there. We dont know how much the cars are being sold at collectively either - presumably at a loss judging by what i paid for my brand new pre reg car.
If they could get back into the US market in a cost effective manner (unlikely) they would probably be approaching the volume numbers they originally envisaged considering the very healthy numbers coming from china.
If you look at what the Genesis sells for I cant see any way they could sell the Phaeton in the states again with the weakness of the Dollar and import charges and changes need to the vehicles to meet Us regulations. 
I am sure I read that Vw lost $600 million dollars on their 2007 American operations - its just so difficult for mass market manufacturers to make money on cars over there if they are not manufactured in the states iteself.
I still think the Phaeton has legs looking at A8 numbers (all be it long in the touth d3 model) Really the VAG top brass should have been insisting that the new A8 and new Phaeton share the same platform and production facilities where possible, this would have had a big impact on the cost of production for both vehciles.
Its all down to politics they could make the Phaeton a viable product if they really wanted there is no doubt its done a very good job along with the Tourag and now Passat CC in beefing up the VW badge imagine and prestiege in what is now a cut throat market.


_Modified by alera at 4:41 AM 1-21-2010_


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (alera)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alera* »_ I would be intersted to see the Uk numbers 

Me too. But all one can find is uk's top 10. Maybe somebody from uk has an idea how to find sth









_Quote, originally posted by *alera* »_ Really the VAG top brass should have been insisting that the new A8 and new Phaeton share the same platform and production facilities where possible, this would have had a big impact on the cost of production for both vehciles.

Don't forget that phaeton and bentley share the same platform already. According to the official vw reports it's manufactured up to 15,000 times per year:
2005: 6,001 phaeton + 9,004 bentley conti (A8: 22,089)
2006: 5,024 phaeton + 9,395 bentley conti (A8: 22,468)
2007: 5,711 phaeton + 9,257 bentley conti (A8: 22,182)
2008: 6,189 phaeton + 6,920 bentley conti (A8: 20,140)
2009: 4,500 phaeton, bentley tba
since 2002 that should be nearly 100,000 units now, while the last A8 was produced 140,000 times "only".
interesting could be how or if panamera/a8/phaeton/bentley would share components one day


----------



## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: (thomas b.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thomas b.* »_
VW of China - Boss Vahland recently said in an german interview, that "almost" 2,000 Phaeton have been sold there in 2009 and 2,500 are expected to be sold in 2010. This makes China probably the biggest Phaeton-Market in 2010.
_Modified by thomas b. at 1:39 AM 1-21-2010_

This is consistent with the current China production percentage I was told at the Gläserne Manufaktur earlier this month.
When the Phaeton was being designed back in 1999, they probably assumed its largest market would be the U.S. Makes one wonder what assumptions one makes today that will become true not in Europe or the US, but in the Middle Kingdom.


----------



## ruddyone (Feb 9, 2009)

*Re: (alera)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alera* »_I still think the Phaeton has legs looking at A8 numbers (all be it long in the touth d3 model) Really the VAG top brass should have been insisting that the new A8 and new Phaeton share the same platform and production facilities where possible, this would have had a big impact on the cost of production for both vehciles.

I think a part of the problem in the US was that the average man on the street looked at the car and thought it was an A8 with a VW badge or a large Passat.
There just wasnt' enough differentiation on the exterior. (yea, we can all spot the differences) And there was a lack of marketing. 
All the facts we learned from Top Gear, that sold many people on the car, should have been part of a VW marketing campaign.
Just my thoughts.
Best Regards,
Nate


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Russia, 2009:
BMW 7 1.404 
Mercedes S 1.347 
Lexus LS 553 
Audi A8 296 
VW Phaeton 124 
Porsche Panamera 117 
Jaguar XJ 45 
Bentley Continental Flying Spur 43 
Daimler Super Eight 18 
Maserati Quattroporte 17


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Germany*

Update for Germany, sales jan-oct 2010:



MB S-Class: 4,403
BMW 7: 3,772
Audi A8: 3,745
Porsche PanAm: 2,311
VW Phaeton: 1,336
Jaguar XJ: 384
Bentley: 162
Maserati Quattroporte: 82
Lexus LS: 65
Maybach: 22
Rolls Royce: 21


VAG/Porsche-marketshare in this class is almost 50 % :thumbup:

The new A8 was the bestselling model in august & september.


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*UK*

According to this article 

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives...drives/VW-Phaeton-30-TDI-SWB-2010-CAR-review/ 

posted in another Thread yesterday by _culverwood_, 278 Phaeton were sold in the Uk in 2009.


----------



## ruddyone (Feb 9, 2009)

I'm a little surprised that the Lexus LS numbers are so low. What's the explanation? 

Nate


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

ruddyone said:


> I'm a little surprised that the Lexus LS numbers are so low. What's the explanation?


In Germany ? Lexus has never been popular over here. It's like the Phaeton in the US 

From Jan - Nov only 1,770 Lexus were sold in Germany (1,015 RX + 539 IS + 146 GS + 70 LS)


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Volkswagen delivered 2,227 Phaeton to chinese customers from jan-sep 2010:

http://www.volkswagenag.com/vwag/vw..._record_in_the_first_nine_months_of_2010.html

I think that's a great result


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Thomas:

Thanks for the update about China, and special thanks for doing such a great job of keeping the sales records up to date in this thread for the past many years...

I wish you a happy holiday season.

Michael


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

Thanks Michael. Merry X-Mas :snowcool:


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*2010*

2010 is over and these are last years luxury class' sales figures in *Germany*:



MB S-Class: 5,177
BMW 7: 5,074
Audi A8: 4,752
Porsche PanAm: 2,674
*VW Phaeton 1,628*
Audi A7: 1,611
MB CLS: 1,282
BMW 6: 732
Jaguar XJ: 545
Bentley: 196
Cadillac Seville/CTS: 110
Maserati Quattroporte: 98
Lexus LS: 80
Rolls Royce: 26
Maybach: 23


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*Switzerland*, 2010:

1. Porsche Panamera: 350
2. MB S-Class: 265
3. BMW 7er: 229
4. Audi A8: 191
5. Jaguar XJ: 95
6. Bentley: 94
7. *VW Phaeton: 32*
8. Lexus LS: 23


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

*50.000*

*PHAETON number 50.000:* 

http://www.autogazette.de/unternehmen/304523.html 

VW also announced this week that 7.500 Phaeton have been manufactured in 2010 and that this was the best result in a year til now. 

They also announced that the transparent factory currently produces 48 Phaeton per day, which means that probably 10.000 will be built this year, thanks to the demand from asia :thumbup:


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:* Related (and very interesting) post - Sales Statistics by Trim and Model Year

Michael


----------



## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

So, I became a VW shareholder last year and have done pretty well so far. Which led to my looking at the Annual Report, which states, for Phaeton, Production:

2009 - 4,071
2010 - 7,477

:thumbup:


----------



## thomas b. (Dec 17, 2006)

According to this interview with VW of China-Boss Neumann

http://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/indu...r-mich-der-wichtigste-konkurrent/5858606.html

"more than 6,000" (!) Phaeton will be sold in China this year, after 3,300 in 2010.

Looks like more than 10,000 units will be made this year, the best result in its 10th year.


----------



## Francis007 (Aug 20, 2006)

*10,000th Phaeton*

The 10,000th Phaeton to be manufactured in 2011 came off the Production Line of the Factory on Wednesday 23rd November ! It made the local Dresden newspaper and there was a small celebration.

The Factory now runs 2 permanent shifts per day,5 days per week ,to keep up with demand from China. Also more staff have been taken on for the Production Line.

I think great news for all of us here who love and admire this car.

Frank


----------



## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

There is a hidden benefit associated with these sales figures. While many changes have taken place to the Phaeton over the years an awful lot of the car remains very similar to the original Phaeton. It would seem that a lot of the parts for all earlier Phaeton's will be available for some time to come (at least until a major chassis, interior and body change happens). The parts won't be inexpensive (most OEM bits aren't) but at least they will be available. Thanks China .
Ron


----------



## DNAguy (Oct 13, 2009)

*I'm a 1%'er*

Hi,

My name is Buck and I have two 2006 Phaeton's and service them at Capo VW...That means I own nearly 1% of the 2006 Phaetons in North America...

I never realized I had cornered the market!

Buck


----------



## DNAguy (Oct 13, 2009)

*Dub*man...R U interested in a white '06 in the OC?*

Hi,

I have ordered a Fisker to replace my 2006 Campanella White V8 Phaeton with about 58K miles...Car is scheduled to arrive in January. I would rather my baby go to someone who would appreciate it rather than given in trade...let me know if you have any interest.

Buck ([email protected])


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

VW Media Services said:


> Transparent Factory: production record in 2011
> 
> 50 percent more Phaeton produced than 2010
> 
> ...


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Anybody know how many Phaetons have been sold in UK. I think someone told me recently it was still less than 1000. Is this right? 
Thanks 
Mike


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Mike, 

I don't know, but that won't stop me... 

Here in the UK there were about 100 per year in 2003/4 according to the MoT figures in the forum. 

Global production was reportedly generally around 5,000, rising to 10,000 in the last two years. 

So that would make say 700 up to 2009, and maybe 300 in 2010 and 2011. 

So 1,000 would sound about right. 

I see about one Phaeton every two months, in fact I see just as many Bentley Continental GTs, of which they sold 30,000 globally, excluding Flying Spurs. 

Cheers, 
Chris


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Think I see more Bentlys... just not as interesting somehow...


----------



## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

2012 sales in France:

2 as of June (and zero in July, BTW)

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2012...2012-discover-the-top-356-all-models-ranking/

More exclusive than Lamborghini Gallardo in France, if you ask me (9 of those).


----------



## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Production*
2001 = 371
2002 = 3,403
2003 = 5,885
2004 = 5,485
2005 = 6,001
2006 = 5,024
2007 = 5,711
2008 = 6,189
2009 = 4,071
2010 = 7,477
2011 = 11,166

*UK Sales*
2003 = 99
2004 = 213
2005 = 265
2006 = 336
2007 = 337
2008 = 282
2009 = 278
2010 = 133
2011 = 199
2012 = 118

Source Volkswagen AG Shareholders report and VW UK Media Site.


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

phaeton said:


> *Production*
> 2001 = 371
> 2002 = 3,403
> 2003 = 5,885
> ...


Good stuff - thanks. I've also found *this* quite interesting!

Regards

M


----------

