# VR6T owners wanted...



## SonicVw (Aug 10, 2000)

I'm having an "issue"







with my recently installed turbo, which I'd like to get some feedback on.
Initial power kicks in nicely at 3k rpm, pulls hard till just after 4k, and then falls on it’s face. Here’s a dyno graph from 2 weeks ago, since then I’ve added the in-line pump and power still drops. Air/fuel read low 13’s at redline w/o the in-line.








Disregard Dynorun 004, that with my old Vortech.
My setup:
Intercooled TO4E 54-trim .58 a/r, Tial 35mm, EIP Stage II chip, Cartech & a 255 lph in-line pump.
I have the Cartech set at 47 psi off vacuum and the bleeder almost fully closed. Currently I'm only running 5 psi







till I resolve the problem. I'm just regulating boost from the Tial's 5 psi spring. I haven't had time to make a dump tube yet. I remember reading about having a dump tube and it's importance, can't remember the details about it though. Oh yeah, no CELs. I see a solid 5 psi if I hold it till redline, so it can’t be a boost leak or leaky bov.
TIA & happy holidays,








Ladd



[Modified by SonicVw, 5:08 PM 12-9-2002]


----------



## climbingcue (Feb 2, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SonicVw)*

Turn the fuel pressure up to 60 psi at idle, and get a dump tube made.... Without a dump tube the car will buck when it gets in the higher RPM range...
Good luck


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (climbingcue)*

The dump tube is the problem. 100% sure.


----------



## GTI VR6 (Sep 12, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (cabzilla)*

does anyone have pics of their dumptube? I'm just trying to get an idea what shape it is...


----------



## Gerapudo (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (GTI VR6)*

what size is the a/r on your turbine side? 
cause i have the exact type of graph for my VR6T.
I also have no dump tube
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0VQAW.../Chris's-VR6T-dyno.jpg?dc=4675375620580271699 


[Modified by Gerapudo, 3:04 PM 12-10-2002]


----------



## 50CENT (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (Gerapudo)*

Ah I see you guys are learning. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif No dump tube = no power and bucking. Also a little trick for you is to turn the rate gain screw all the way in and turn the pressure to 70-80 psi with the vacuum hose off your car will run much smoother
Brian


----------



## SonicVw (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (Gerapudo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]what size is the a/r on your turbine side?[HR][/HR]​.60 cold side.
Ok, 1.5" dia for the dump tube should do it right?


----------



## German Muscle (Nov 23, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SonicVw)*

quote:[HR][/HR]what size is the a/r on your turbine side?.60 cold side.
Ok, 1.5" dia for the dump tube should do it right? [HR][/HR]​Psst. the turbine is the hot side, and you already listed its a/r .58.
Ya, 1.5" OD tube/pipe will work, I used 1.25" ID metal conduit from Home Depot







.


----------



## Metallitubby (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (German Muscle)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Ya, 1.5" OD tube/pipe will work, I used 1.25" ID metal conduit from Home Depot 
[HR][/HR]​I used a stainless handicap bathroom handle from HD


----------



## climbingcue (Feb 2, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (Metallitubby)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I used a stainless handicap bathroom handle from HD[HR][/HR]​Good idea, I will have to check that out... I would like to make another one...


----------



## GTI VR6 (Sep 12, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (climbingcue)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I used a stainless handicap bathroom handle from HD
Good idea, I will have to check that out... I would like to make another one...[HR][/HR]​yeah... good idea. So is there room to do a 90 deg. bend out of the wastegate and go straight down or is there stuff in the way?


----------



## climbingcue (Feb 2, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (GTI VR6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]So is there room to do a 90 deg. bend out of the wastegate and go straight down or is there stuff in the way? [HR][/HR]​You can cut it on an angle to get it to line up right, but it is almost a 90 deg angle anyway....


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (climbingcue)*

wait a sec.
how come everyone is blaming blowing wastegate gasses to the atmosphere as a reason bor BUCKING and bad dyno runs??????
blowing to atmosphere is BETTER that returning the gasses to the exhaust pipe. with a dump tube, the gasses cause swirling and lots of turbulance in the exhaust. 
running a pipe back to the exhaust will minimize power, and is typically done as an emissions concern.


----------



## Super Hero Monkee (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

And noise!


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (Super Hero Monkee)*

well, doesnt look like he's running any kind of boost regulating device, he said he's runing off the 5 psi spring in the wastegate..........maybe your hitting that 5psi??? you cant boost over 5 psi......maybe spring is really 4 or lower and not set correctly or something(dont have a tial to know). 
whats your boost guage saying when your car falls on its face? boosting to 5 and holding?


----------



## GTI VR6 (Sep 12, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

quote:[HR][/HR]wait a sec.
how come everyone is blaming blowing wastegate gasses to the atmosphere as a reason bor BUCKING and bad dyno runs??????
blowing to atmosphere is BETTER that returning the gasses to the exhaust pipe. with a dump tube, the gasses cause swirling and lots of turbulance in the exhaust. 
running a pipe back to the exhaust will minimize power, and is typically done as an emissions concern.[HR][/HR]​I don't plan to pipe it back in to the exhaust, I just want to pipe it away from the wastegate and out of the engine compartment. 
thx climbingcue


----------



## TheDeer (Sep 21, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (GTI VR6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]wait a sec.
how come everyone is blaming blowing wastegate gasses to the atmosphere as a reason bor BUCKING and bad dyno runs??????
blowing to atmosphere is BETTER that returning the gasses to the exhaust pipe. with a dump tube, the gasses cause swirling and lots of turbulance in the exhaust. 
running a pipe back to the exhaust will minimize power, and is typically done as an emissions concern.
I don't plan to pipe it back in to the exhaust, I just want to pipe it away from the wastegate and out of the engine compartment. 
thx climbingcue[HR][/HR]​I am going to pipe it back into the downpipe, its right there anyway. I will let you know how it goes, and how hard it ends up being. BTW EVO's pipe it back in to the exhaust, they don't seem to be hurtin on the power from the factory, let alone modified. But I don't know what people do as far as modding them.



[Modified by TheDeer, 12:30 PM 12-11-2002]


----------



## BoostedBannana (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

quote:[HR][/HR]wait a sec.
how come everyone is blaming blowing wastegate gasses to the atmosphere as a reason bor BUCKING and bad dyno runs??????
blowing to atmosphere is BETTER that returning the gasses to the exhaust pipe. with a dump tube, the gasses cause swirling and lots of turbulance in the exhaust. 
running a pipe back to the exhaust will minimize power, and is typically done as an emissions concern.[HR][/HR]​Do you have a vr6 turbo?


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (BoostedBannana)*

ok, maybe it wont HURT power, but if your wondering why your graph looks as it does, plumbing the gasses back into the downpipe will only make matters worse(may be so insignificant you hardly notice ANYTHING). 
It will 100% for sure not give you power.
1 other thing is for sure, im sot saying its good to just blow exhaust gasses in the engine bay, for sure you should have a pipe that routes it so its pointed to the street at least. if this is what you all meant, sorry for confusion. 
and just because evo's make power and plumb it into the downpipe doesnt mean anything at all. you would have to compare that car to one with it blowing the wastegate to the atmosphere and see improvemt in stock form. Im not saying you CANT make power with it plumbed back in, just saying your not going to make ANY more than with it to atmosphere.


----------



## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (50CENT)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Ah I see you guys are learning. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif No dump tube = no power and bucking. Also a little trick for you is to turn the rate gain screw all the way in and turn the pressure to 70-80 psi with the vacuum hose off your car will run much smoother
Brian[HR][/HR]​Apparently, only SOME of us are learning...


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (I am Jack's VR6)*

back to the topic....can you post up the a/f graph ?


----------



## SonicVw (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (RaraK69)*

quote:[HR][/HR]back to the topic....can you post up the a/f graph ?[HR][/HR]​I just used an Autronic air/fuel w/wide band O² to monitor air/fuel. IIRC, at 4k it was in the high 11's and at 6k it was in th low-mid 13's.


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (I am Jack's VR6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Apparently, only SOME of us are learning...[HR][/HR]​i know, right?


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

quote:[HR][/HR]ok, maybe it wont HURT power, but if your wondering why your graph looks as it does, plumbing the gasses back into the downpipe will only make matters worse(may be so insignificant you hardly notice ANYTHING). 
It will 100% for sure not give you power.
1 other thing is for sure, im sot saying its good to just blow exhaust gasses in the engine bay, for sure you should have a pipe that routes it so its pointed to the street at least. if this is what you all meant, sorry for confusion. 
and just because evo's make power and plumb it into the downpipe doesnt mean anything at all. you would have to compare that car to one with it blowing the wastegate to the atmosphere and see improvemt in stock form. Im not saying you CANT make power with it plumbed back in, just saying your not going to make ANY more than with it to atmosphere.[HR][/HR]​Not to put too fine a point on it, but you don't know that the f**k you are talking about. Do not speak about what you do not understand. I had the same issue, and solved the problem using the methods described above. If my 90whp gain from *ONLY* changing the dump tube config was a fluke, then all of the other ones were too. You have a 2.0, and the last time I looked, that WASN'T a VR6. Please play elsewhere. I usually don't flame people, but you = ignorant. 

[Modified by cabzilla, 3:24 PM 12-11-2002]


[Modified by cabzilla, 3:24 PM 12-11-2002]


----------



## 1QUIKVR (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (cabzilla)*

wow.........how do you really feel? Dont hold back now.....lol just kidding.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (BrandonVR6)*

It just sucks when people who don't know what they are talking about give bad/incorrect advice to people who need help.


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (cabzilla)*

i still dont get why that would make any differnce at all.........would really be nice if someone could explain it rather than just "it just works better that way". still dont believe thats what would cause you turbo to not make power up top!!!.........is there something different w/ the vr6's in the exhaust system that would make this happen? theres just O2 sensors on it right?


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (RaraK69)*

hes asking a pretty legit question! All he said is why plumbing it into the exhaust would make more power and smother running! Which doesnt make sense, because what all you are talking about is putting a dump tube on the car, since atp doesnt give you one. And who the f cares if he has a 2.0 he asked a pretty simple question and just because you cant read his whole post just shows how much of a dik you are!!!


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (turbodub)*

All I have to say is that Im so confident in this matter, there IS NO GROUNDS for explanation because its the facts. I also believe this to be soooooooo evident and obvious, i hope everyone who reads this realises that your just nuts.
im giving you reasons why wg gasses in the downpipe or in the atmosphere either dont help anything, or make it worse.
HERE THEY ARE:
Exhaust flow is pretty critical thing. Its just like intake flow. People hype up how smooth air intakes have to be, exhuats is just as important. That said, you dont want lots of swirling around and you also dont want lots of backpressure(especially on a turbo or SC application OBVIOUSLY). When the wastegate gasses flow out of the manifold, there is a pressure drop, and you want this drop. The pressure drop lowers the turbine's rpm's and available energy to make boost. This is calles boost control. We all want control over boost, its a good thing. Now lets take an extreem, we'll put the gasses to re enter the downpipe IMMIDEALEY after the turbine. What is going to happen is that the gasses are all going to flow in the downpipe with in a chaotic fashion. The gasses will swirl around in every direction. Keep in mind that if your WG is a big one, the pressure from the dump tube will be greater than the pressure in the downpipe. Who is to say that the gasses will "want" to flow towards the tailpipe. Truth is, the gasses will flow AGAINST the turbine and swirl all around the place before they leave the tail pipe. This swirling can actually make the turbine spin(which we dont want, remember we have the WG open now to AVOID the turbine). This all happens really fast, and in realworld sometimes doesnt happen. The further away from the turbine you re-enter the gasses, the less you see the effect. The closer the gasses, the more. Now the bad thing about the gasses causing turbulance is that you wont have as smooth and steady boost. Since turbine rpm directly determines boost, whenever you have lots of turbulance by the turbine, youll have erratic boost. This WILL make a power cure move around in a non linear fashion, and just make the car BUCK as a result.
Now, lets say you dump to atmosphere. What happens? The exhust in the manifold takes the least restrictive path. A hole to the atmosphere is pretty low restriction, lower than to a 2.5-3in pipe thats like 5 feet long. I hope you can all see why the atmosphere is less restrictive, its obvious to me, but then again so is all this im writing. So if the gasses want to flow to the atmosphere, they will, the bigger the opening, and the better location the more gas will flow out. Since the whole point of a WG is to bypass the turbine to control boost, venting to the atmosphere MAKES SENCE. 
Now, I will accept as a valid argument the position that in the real world it doesnt matter either way. This is true in low boost situations, and as i said, the further the re-entry point is in the downpipe, the less you see it. 
WHat my point of all this is:
In no way, shape or form will venting to the atmosphere cause erratic power, or bucking. Its the BEST way to do it.(unless your blowing exhaust gasses all over your plug wires or ecu wire harness!!!)
Now cabzilla, what you got to say??!?!
I never know what to explain and what not to explain in depth because i think of this all as common knowledge you pick up from just ONE CONVERSATION or ONE THREAD. This info is on the internet ALL OVER, all over the vortex and all over any turbo related car forum. I dont see why it just doesnt sink in already!!!
Threads like this have gotten me booted in the past, and probably will in the future because thoes who lay in the wake send a brigade of IM's to moderators as thier responce that im a jerk and should be banned. 
its time to kick ass and chew gum, and im all out of gum!!!


----------



## 2ATMsLater (Oct 30, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (turbodub)*

my did that and it was the throttle positioning sensor
dont you just love the little poop that goes wrong


----------



## audioteknik (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

Here, here, brother............


----------



## Metallitubby (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (GTI VR6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I used a stainless handicap bathroom handle from HD
Good idea, I will have to check that out... I would like to make another one...
yeah... good idea. So is there room to do a 90 deg. bend out of the wastegate and go straight down or is there stuff in the way? [HR][/HR]​Depending on application, the 90 degree bend works, and clears with about 5mm space between it and the DP.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

What I have to say is that a turbo vr NEEDS some sort of tube. A bare wastegate venting gasses will cause bucking and terrible top-end. Whether or not it runs back into the dp does not matter. THere has to be a tube.


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (cabzilla)*

cabzilla, why do you keep insisting on something that you dont know! you dont know that is NEEDS this , you dont have anything to back you up, you need to show us/tell us WHY THIS IS ON A VR6 then! or stop posting......
speed is right, doesnt matter man, think about it, thats like saying your car must have a CAI that "Y"'s into a airbox by the TB or the car will buck!!? that sound ridiculous to you? does to me, basicaly same thing you are trying to say w/ an exhuast


----------



## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (RaraK69)*

OMG, you guys are fudge*ng morons...
The GTR guys and Cabzilla all *HAVE AND DRIVE* Turbo VR6's. Let me say that again... 
THEY ALL OWN AND DRIVE A TURBO VR6!!!!!
They are telling you that a dump tube is the answer because they went through all of this crap themselves. I can't believe I am reading posts from people saying otherwise!!
Let's just make this nice and simple. If you don't have a turbo VR6, shut the f*ck up.
I don't have a turbo VR6, but I'm smart enough to sit back and **listen** to the people that do...


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (I am Jack's VR6)*

dude...an engine is an engine.......they are all the same, some different compnents but all work in the same way!.........especially a 4 cyl and a 6 cyl engine for vw! bosch injection both ways!


----------



## SonicVw (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

I'm really not interested in plumbing the wastegate back into the exhaust. Although I'm sure Speed51133 has a very good argument about its affects on performance (Thanks for taking the time in explaining you valid opinion), but *personally* rather than trying to get too technical about it, I’m just gonna take that advice from people who's already been there... Done that... Fixed it… And now it friggin pulls like a mutha!








Perhaps after I sort out this issue, then I’ll dig deeper into the “No dumptube? Runs like crap” mystery.
Hey, that's a good idea to use the HC grab bars... There are a few of them at my office bathroom that nobody would really miss...







Better yet, I know where I can get a S.S. Civic header and cut off some runners and use that for my dump tube. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Happy Holidays!


----------



## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (I am Jack's VR6)*



> They are telling you that a dump tube is the answer because they went through all of this crap themselves. I can't believe I am reading posts from people saying otherwise!!
> 
> 
> > I'd like to know why the wastegate needs a dump tube also. Can someone explain why not running one would cause bucking? I haven't seen that question answered yet just people saying "you have to run one just because".


----------



## climbingcue (Feb 2, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... ('89gli)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I'd like to know why the wastegate needs a dump tube also. Can someone explain why not running one would cause bucking? I haven't seen that question answered yet just people saying "you have to run one just because".[HR][/HR]​This is the way it was put to me.... "Without a dump tube the car is sucking in its own throwup" The dump tube makes the waste exhaust go away from the motor and intake letting the car suck in clean air.... 
I will be at the 1552 show with my car, so if anyone wants to see why you need a dump tube..... I will take you for a ride in the car with the dump tube and without the dump tube..... I don't know why it is so hard to believe us (GTR) we have all run with and without a dump tube.....


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (I am Jack's VR6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]OMG, you guys are fudge*ng morons...
The GTR guys and Cabzilla all *HAVE AND DRIVE* Turbo VR6's. Let me say that again... 
THEY ALL OWN AND DRIVE A TURBO VR6!!!!!
They are telling you that a dump tube is the answer because they went through all of this crap themselves. I can't believe I am reading posts from people saying otherwise!!
Let's just make this nice and simple. If you don't have a turbo VR6, shut the f*ck up.
I don't have a turbo VR6, but I'm smart enough to sit back and **listen** to the people that do...[HR][/HR]​funny how the turbo vr's are some of the slowest turbo hybrid vw's around. take a looka the the to 20 or so turbo vw's.  why is it that most are 2L or less motors???? maybe its because people like you have skulls too think to see that what i said has nothing to do with what make or model your engine is.
if your car is bucking, you think a damn tube thats a few inches is going to solve ANYTHING??? 
i hope people take the time to read this stupid thread so your credibility in ANY other posts is taken as ZERO. I wish people like you would just not ever answer a thread because its comments like this that keep propetuating the BS that plauges the vortex. Take a look at message forums where there actually are fast cars. They all know that the vortex is a place to sell shift knobs, and get a good laugh(compliments of people like you).


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (climbingcue)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
This is the way it was put to me.... "Without a dump tube the car is sucking in its own throwup" The dump tube makes the waste exhaust go away from the motor and intake letting the car suck in clean air.... 
..[HR][/HR]​
obviously if your exhaust gasses are entering your intake, its not a good thing!
Remember, i NEVR argued against pointing your gasses to the road or something. It kind of seemed earlier that everyone was saying the gasses have to go in the downpipe.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SonicVw)*

Have you done any VAG-COM logging? What's the fuel pressure at redline? Is the airflow dropping off just like your dyno? Is timing being pulled? Is injector duty cycle being pulled?
You should be able to narrow it down pretty quickly with a few logged runs.


----------



## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

My car never bucked before i put the dump tube on. It did stink and cause oxygen deprivation, but never bucked. I never understood why people said this, but apparently this fixed bucking problems on quite a few turbo vr's out there. So if someone in the future has a bucking problem and is running th wastegate with no dump at all, then i will most definately recommend they put one on because it has worked before and very well may just fix their problem. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
As for Vr turbo's being the slowest turbo hybrid whatever you were saying, show me other motors (besides the obvious skyline and supra) where you can more then double the hp output safely of a STOCK BLOCK by simply slapping on a turbo. VR6 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

quote:[HR][/HR]i hope people take the time to read this stupid thread so your credibility in ANY other posts is taken as ZERO. I wish people like you would just not ever answer a thread because its comments like this that keep propetuating the BS that plauges the vortex. Take a look at message forums where there actually are fast cars. They all know that the vortex is a place to sell shift knobs, and get a good laugh(compliments of people like you).[HR][/HR]​Looks like I stuck quite a nerve! What's the matter? Did I hit the nail on the head? 
You see, the thing is... I am not coming into this forum to proclaim myself as someone who is knowledgable about turbo VR6's. I don't know enough about them and that's the only reason I am here. To learn. 
Maybe you should follow my lead champ.


[Modified by I am Jack's VR6, 2:55 PM 12-12-2002]


----------



## BoostedBannana (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

quote:[HR][/HR]OMG, you guys are fudge*ng morons...
The GTR guys and Cabzilla all *HAVE AND DRIVE* Turbo VR6's. Let me say that again... 
THEY ALL OWN AND DRIVE A TURBO VR6!!!!!
They are telling you that a dump tube is the answer because they went through all of this crap themselves. I can't believe I am reading posts from people saying otherwise!!
Let's just make this nice and simple. If you don't have a turbo VR6, shut the f*ck up.
I don't have a turbo VR6, but I'm smart enough to sit back and **listen** to the people that do...
funny how the turbo vr's are some of the slowest turbo hybrid vw's around. take a looka the the to 20 or so turbo vw's. why is it that most are 2L or less motors???? maybe its because people like you have skulls too think to see that what i said has nothing to do with what make or model your engine is.
if your car is bucking, you think a damn tube thats a few inches is going to solve ANYTHING??? 
i hope people take the time to read this stupid thread so your credibility in ANY other posts is taken as ZERO. I wish people like you would just not ever answer a thread because its comments like this that keep propetuating the BS that plauges the vortex. Take a look at message forums where there actually are fast cars. They all know that the vortex is a place to sell shift knobs, and get a good laugh(compliments of people like you).[HR][/HR]​Speed you sure talk alot for having a 13sec car, especially since it's an 8v, if you don't have a vr6 don't talk, like you know everything. Why don't you ask how many people had similar problems prior to putting on a dumptube, then they were cure after it was installed then question if it's doin anything.
It's very simple, you either take our suggestion, or you sit and enjoy your turbo problems posting on vortex every week, while the Vortex Genius's like speed and marty, get all indepth with why something has to work or why something doesn't work. While neither of there cars have seen 12's with all the vast knowledge. 
Or you take a suggestion from a bunch of idiots that have no clue what there doin, but amazingly all of there cars run low 12's and faster. Again the choice is yours.
Your right the vortex is a bad place where a bunch of people share there .02cents on stuff they have no first hand expereince with.
Now you say all the fastest VW's are 4cyls, well lets take a look at the cars currently running.
1. Kevin Black - 4cyl - 16v - 10.05
2. Marco Santos - 4cyl - 10.15
3. Tom Chrisonensis - VR6 - 10.20
4. Steve Oliveira - VR6 - 10.81
5. Joel Brown - 4cy - 10.84
6. Lou Bertuccio - VR6 - 10.86
7. Zach Visconti - 4cy - 11.01
8. Brian Kirchberger - VR6 - 11.43
Wow, look 4 (4cyl) and 4 (Vr6), and if you want me to continue through the top 20, of all time there will be even more vr6's, Since Bill Schimmel went 11.1 and Rich from EIP went 11.1, but Paul Wolf in his 4cyl went 10.95, So again your arguements holds no water.


----------



## dabongo (Feb 13, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (I am Jack's VR6)*

Geezzzz
All your doing is redirecting pressure..... thus lowering the pressure in the system....
Doesn't matter where it goes....as long as it just goes....
Not rocket science...
And before I get flamed... I've build 6 different turbo systems on 4, 6 and 8 cyl. cars...
Was fun reading this thread though!!!!!


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (BoostedBannana)*

dont mix my quote with that other dude's saying to shut the "[email protected]#" up and stuff, makes it look like im that childish.
and your right, my car hasnt seen 12's with all my BS. It pisses me off more than you. It hasnt seen 12's though not because its not capable, but ive been buisy graduating college and trying to get into law school, and havent had time to get my car where it should be. but thats another story.
dont worry, it will get there, and beyond.


----------



## Boge VR6 (Aug 24, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

ok heres one ... are all the cars without dump tubes, and bucking running stock computers? or is this "bucking" going on in both applications. only reason i ask, is because i think the dump tube sounds like crap. i was gonna re route back in, but if this is causing a bucking issue, then the crap noise will stay on .. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Gerapudo (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (Boge VR6)*

I remember i had bucking problems a while back.
I tried disconnecting the MAF.
Bingo - my bucking problems stopped.
and i am still running an open wastegate, 
not even a dump tube to the ground.


----------



## oldmanTDI (Feb 27, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (Gerapudo)*

BoostedBannana, I have seen Dexter Lum do high 10's with his street driven 8V Bunny. I raced him many times with my Mopar BB, Acura Turbo, LS1 Camaro, he beat me ever time. He was and is one of the top VW builders of all time for street cars, he lives in Hawaii, he broke into the 10's in the 80s. No bull anybody from Hawaii knows of him, he owned /worked at Eurosport and the Speedline and now he does internet stuff. He built many custom cars, full turbo including things like turbo Mk1 MR2 auto, turbo 2tc SR5, supercharged 318i, B16a Jpec into first gen Integra (early 90's), turbo 240SX, all hand built manifolds, all unique.


----------



## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

quote:[HR][/HR]dont mix my quote with that other dude's saying to shut the "[email protected]#" up and stuff, makes it look like im that childish.[HR][/HR]​hahahaha
speed51133! - The self-righteous, condescending, turbo professor of VWVortex.
All hail.


----------



## GTI2lo (Dec 19, 1999)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (I am Jack's VR6)*

I have to agree with the GTR guys on this issue of bucking. I've had several friends with simular symptoms and all because of the wastegate dump into the exhaust. Don't ask why the open dump works, it just does.... Even with my car some of the drivability problems such as bucking it due to the wastegate being vented into the exhaust. Having an open dump solves the situation. True many people don't like the sound but it is a true sound of power when you hear a car going by with open dump. It's just awesome.


----------



## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (GTI2lo)*

You people are misunderstanding what te "GTR" guys are talking about, they arent talking about routing back into exhaust vs. running a tube to atmosphers. They are saying that the bucking issue is caused by running an open flange off the wastegate without a dump tube under to car (to atmosphere). Although i dont see how it is different to run an open flange or run a tube off it under the car besides the fact that the filter may suck in exhaust fumes with the open flange. They say it fixed bucking on a few of their cars, i believe them. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

The only reason I can think of, as to why the dump would eliminate any kind of buycking on a VR is because the VR, if you know how the head is designed, has unequal length exhaust and intake ports. The shape of the ports, and the length of both the intake runners and the exhaust manifold runners all contributew to make the VR run smooth. If you are using a manifold like the ATP manifold, which just lets all of the ports run into one common colector area, without taking the port lengths into consideration, it may cause some type of harmonic imbalance isside the engine that could cause bucking. When the wastegate opens, think of the motor having back good pressure on 4 cylinders and no back pressure on 2 cylinders... this could cause problems. Putting the dump tube on may cause just enough back pressure on the gasses going out the wastegate to even things out...
make sense? Now, I am not saying that it will or won't fix this guys problem, as I have no experience to say so. But saying that he *needs* the dumb tube to fix his problem isn't necessarily right either.
If you ask me, just by looking at the graph, the car isn't bucking. It is falling on it's face because all the igniton timing is being pulled. But that is just a guess. Datalog the timing. Dollar says it goes to 0 under boost.


----------



## GTI2lo (Dec 19, 1999)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*

no you have to run some sort of tube or pipe off the output of the wastegate. It would otherwise burn up your engine bay. all you really need is it to be about 12-20' long and aim the gases to the floor.


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (GTI2lo)*

My wastgate shot on to the back of my block for 6 months... nothing burned up(well, I did melt a wastegate vacuum line once, d'oh!) But the only real draw back was that it made the back of the block all dirty. I put the dump on solely for that reason(the soot). Made buckets of power and had a smooth running car without the dump, even though it is a half assed way of doing it(not building the dump), it works just fine on almost all motors, unless like Speed 5113 said, it is aimed at critical flammable engine components.

But you can't compare a normal 4 cylinder motor with equal length ports to the VR... the VR has it's own set of rules.
2 dollars says my theory is spot on as to why some cars buck without the tube, and another dollar says that all of the cars that had bucking problems had the ATP manifold, or some other type of log style manifold.


----------



## BoostedBannana (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (oldmanTDI)*

quote:[HR][/HR]BoostedBannana, I have seen Dexter Lum do high 10's with his street driven 8V Bunny. I raced him many times with my Mopar BB, Acura Turbo, LS1 Camaro, he beat me ever time. He was and is one of the top VW builders of all time for street cars, he lives in Hawaii, he broke into the 10's in the 80s. No bull anybody from Hawaii knows of him, he owned /worked at Eurosport and the Speedline and now he does internet stuff. He built many custom cars, full turbo including things like turbo Mk1 MR2 auto, turbo 2tc SR5, supercharged 318i, B16a Jpec into first gen Integra (early 90's), turbo 240SX, all hand built manifolds, all unique.







[HR][/HR]​I thought his fastest time was mid to low 11's never knew he dipped into the 10's, and i didn't know his name but i knew of that car in hawaii, that was also a fast allmotor from hawaii also iirc.

Now though i don't feel it's necessary to explain, i will, when brian first receive his setup, the car ran like straight ass for a good 2-3 months, him and nightmare tryed everything, from chips,to plugs,to plug wires, fuel, to absolutely everything you could think of to cure this bucking/hesitating loss of power up high in the powerband. So they compare what was different from nightmares (custom setup) to brians atp, only thing was a dump tube dirrecting the wastegate gas from away from the o2 sensors and back of engine bay down to the ground, sure enough as soon as he left the exhaust play the car ripped. It was also put to effect on climbingcue's car and same thing, no dump tube buck and hesitation, though not as dramatic as brians car, still pulled 10x stronger with the dumptube. 
Now the only logical thing that if i recall they could think of it was giving false readings to the o2 sensor. but it cured the problem. as with many other atp kit cars


----------



## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (BoostedBannana)*

show me other motors (besides the obvious skyline and supra) where you can more then double the hp output safely of a STOCK BLOCK by simply slapping on a turbo. VR6>>>
Matt K's 16v , 340 whp+17.6%=399.84 chp
OEM 2.0 16v , 134 chp * 3 =402
dammit...almost triple but not quite...
sorry, I just love bragging about that motor. haha anyway...
Dexter Lum. Hmmm, he went 11.81 back in the day with a 1.8 8v motor, when he was with Speedtek. Last time I heard about Sonic Motorsports was their 16v Rabbit went like 11.6 or something. Downpipe going through the passenger compartment I dont think it was a street car.... If any of you guys talk to him tell him to hang out on VWSport.com with the rest of us....
back on topic, I have nothing to add about VR6 Turbos except that I want one, but need $$$ for that to happen


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (BoostedBannana)*

Tim, while I can appreciate what you are saying, about how the bucking problem was solved by putting the dump on, you still have no idea why the dump not being there caused the problem... That is what I am trying to explain to you. 
And this guys car, the one that posted the dyno graph, his car isn't bucking... ignition timing, no doubt about it.


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (lugnuts)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Matt K's 16v , 340 whp+17.6%=399.84 chp
OEM 2.0 16v , 134 chp * 3 =402
dammit...almost triple but not quite...
[HR][/HR]​What am I, chopped liver?
460 wheel on a motor that had 142 wheel bone stock...
or, if you feel silly, 167 chp to 541 chp... 
Big numbers are fun








Shame I never got this thing to go down the track right... oh well, bigger things are coming...
quote:[HR][/HR]
back on topic, I have nothing to add about VR6 Turbos except that I want one, but need $$$ for that to happen








[HR][/HR]​I just picked up an A2 VR for a little side project... hence my interest in the subject


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*

quote:[HR][/HR]And this guys car, the one that posted the dyno graph, his car isn't bucking... ignition timing, no doubt about it.[HR][/HR]​Log the damn timing already!


----------



## BoostedBannana (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*

Billy, i understand, and in the end becoming a better tuner, finding out why things work or don't work help in the long run. But something like this why is it so important that you have to have an explination. Why can't people just put the dump tube on and be happy.
If some one is gonna give you a million dollars are you gonna ask 50questions, hell no your gonna walk away with the money. Same thing, it's a $30 part if you buy the flange from turbonetics, and will save ya tons of headaches.


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (BoostedBannana)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Billy, i understand, and in the end becoming a better tuner, finding out why things work or don't work help in the long run. But something like this why is it so important that you have to have an explination. Why can't people just put the dump tube on and be happy.
If some one is gonna give you a million dollars are you gonna ask 50questions, hell no your gonna walk away with the money. Same thing, it's a $30 part if you buy the flange from turbonetics, and will save ya tons of headaches.[HR][/HR]​when we find out, we'll know more than you







lol


----------



## SonicVw (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I just picked up an A2 VR for a little side project... hence my interest in the subject







[HR][/HR]​2.BillyT?








quote:[HR][/HR]Log the damn timing already![HR][/HR]​Ok Ok Ok... what blocks are ignition timing & injector duty?


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SonicVw)*

well how about this, i have a vr6T, and the car cuts out... shuts down the TB, injector duty cycles fall off, running 55-57psi at idle, EIP FLASHED ecu. apparently im not the only one. the car ran fine for 4 hours at 10psi. pulled real hard to 4k, hesitated, and then ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE. car felt INSANE fast. couldnt give it gas in 5th gear after redline in 4th (dont bag on me, i had to drive a 87' mazda 323 while i built my car, and got used to it, so it felt REAL FAST). now what the hell am i to do. i have all this $$ tied up, had 5 hrs of dyno time logged to tell me that it is shutting down because of heat. WTF. why would the car run properly for 4 hours and then just stop? it obviously means that SOMETHING CHANGED. something is wrong. heat was always there. the car shuts down throttle with 5psi with 8.5:1!!! thats not right! just look at it this way, things could be worse


----------



## BoostedBannana (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (RaraK69)*

There's alot of people who know more, obviously it doesn't help them


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (BoostedBannana)*

Give me $100. It will make your car faster. Don't ask questions.


----------



## GTI2lo (Dec 19, 1999)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SERGEVR6T)*

quote:[HR][/HR]well how about this, i have a vr6T, and the car cuts out... shuts down the TB, injector duty cycles fall off, running 55-57psi at idle, EIP FLASHED ecu. apparently im not the only one. the car ran fine for 4 hours at 10psi. pulled real hard to 4k, hesitated, and then ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE. car felt INSANE fast. couldnt give it gas in 5th gear after redline in 4th (dont bag on me, i had to drive a 87' mazda 323 while i built my car, and got used to it, so it felt REAL FAST). now what the hell am i to do. i have all this $$ tied up, had 5 hrs of dyno time logged to tell me that it is shutting down because of heat. WTF. why would the car run properly for 4 hours and then just stop? it obviously means that SOMETHING CHANGED. something is wrong. heat was always there. the car shuts down throttle with 5psi with 8.5:1!!! thats not right! just look at it this way, things could be worse[HR][/HR]​
sounds fishy... something else is going on. So for 4 hours it ran mint and now ass. At 8.5:1 comp did you do pistons or just a gasket? Maybe something let go... couldn't really say, good luck in getting it resolved though.


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (GTI2lo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
sounds fishy... something else is going on. So for 4 hours it ran mint and now ass. At 8.5:1 comp did you do pistons or just a gasket? Maybe something let go... couldn't really say, good luck in getting it resolved though.[HR][/HR]​head gasket. yeah, i suck. i woulda done things different if i was smarter then. i ran the car for 4 hours, let it idle in my driveway to go get my girlfriend to take her for a ride. ran through 1st easy, stomped it in 2nd, and it cut out at 4900rpm. go fig.


----------



## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (50CENT)*

For something to be PROVED it must happen 100% of the time. I am not arguing with you of couse a filter sucking in exhaust gas is gonna cause a problem, but it DIDNT on my car when i ran no dump tube for a few days, i had NO bucking whatsoever, but maybe my engine bay had better ventilation. I completely agree with you though of course this will cause a problem, why is evryone arguing go out and get a dump tube for a few bucks, if it fixes a problem then good, if it doesnt, sh!!t it will still save your life from carbon monoxide poisoning. BTW- I like theSC comment..haha


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (50CENT)*

quote:[HR][/HR]. It has nothing to do with timing god thats bout the dumbest thing ive ever heard. That kid must drive a SC car. Im tired of all you people on here arguing the facts that have been proved time and time again.
[HR][/HR]​i may be a dumbass with a slow car and big mouth, but the dude your talking about sure is not.
quote:[HR][/HR]
Man why is the sky blue and water wet. It just is [HR][/HR]​sky being blue can be explained pretty easily. water is wet because wet means comming in contact with water.


[Modified by speed51133!, 6:31 PM 12-14-2002]


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (50CENT)*

If the problem is ingestion of exhaust, it should be pretty easy to verify. Run the intake out through the passenger headlight without a filter (or with some minimal filter) and go for a drive. Problem should be *completely gone* and should drive like a dream. If it doesn't, then it is obviously something else. Now go log the timing.


----------



## 2ATMsLater (Oct 30, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (Marty)*

i gotta agree with 50CENT on this one - the dump tube did make my car run a hell of a lot better - ATP stage 2 on a 98 GTI VR6
but since i dont have it anymore i am going to sit back and watch


----------



## GTI2lo (Dec 19, 1999)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*

damn, harsh








I have to add that brian does know alot of things and has a few tricks for the vr6, Billy your car is just an animal, god 450+ stock motor. And you didn't even blow it up! Damn rod!


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*

After reading through the whole topic again, i noticed the little thing that i never saw before. the car in question has the same management as mine does. I HAVE A WASTEGATE dump routed into the DP. I AM NOT sucking in any cold air. my highest advance timing in 5th gear full throttle was 23deg. I am not a mechanic, nor do i claim to be one, so i shall ask this question: is this advance too much? should there be less advance around 4k, or does this sound right on? i KNOW the fuel is correct... i was digging into my car at the same time my friend, who was a VW tech, built his VR6T, and we set that together. we then checked EVERYTHING together after the problem occured. who knows. some day i will have more money, can rent out a space to rip my car apart again and find the problem. 
and a message...
billy T was the MF man with his car. listen to what he says. i dont see video of anyone elses cars driving on the road eating texan high rollers alive. 
thanks for all the information all of you have provided. advice from people that actually know what they are doing helps. the hardest part is finding out who they are.


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (GTI2lo)*

quote:[HR][/HR] And you didn't even blow it up! Damn rod!







[HR][/HR]​I was just looking at the old block yesterday...
Plugs were perfect, pistons were perfect, cylinder walls were glassy smooth, except number #3, but it had half a rod and a piston bouncing around in it... But even the combustion surface of that piston was perfect. You can still see the orginal factory machining marks, all the numbers on the pistons, and these things are tiny, are still perfect. I plan on tearing it the rest of the way down, and getting a real good look at it... pics for sure.
It's a damn shame I never got this car down the track good. I didn't even out a diff back in it when I put the new motor and tranny in. Wouldn't have had a chance to get the car down the track before it gets sold anyway... All good though. The next car will be re****ingdiculous, no doubt about it.


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*

Bolt-On Brian and Hill-Billy are squaring things up... no need for such animosity... even though I have to admit, it was a little entertaining...


[Modified by 1.BillyT, 12:54 AM 12-15-2002]


----------



## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*








Damn guys take it easy. Seems to be getting outta hand. Cmon Hardcorevw members shouldnt be arguing like this. Quit all this and talk like human beings.


----------



## Quiz (Sep 13, 2002)

Vortex has done it again. Leave it to this collaboration of misfits to find something offensive in a motor with a small operating misfortune. A dispute sends this thread into a 3-page frenzy of pure entertainment for a half hour read while eating a bag of pop secret. So bravo to those fighting for the truth in this swampland of vortex, the misinformation headquarters.



[Modified by Quiz, 1:46 AM 12-15-2002]


----------



## Quiz (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (Quiz)*

Woah 50cent what happen to the large rant that was pure entertainment.


----------



## ventodan (Feb 15, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SERGEVR6T)*

quote:[HR][/HR]well how about this, i have a vr6T, and the car cuts out... shuts down the TB, injector duty cycles fall off, running 55-57psi at idle, EIP FLASHED ecu. apparently im not the only one. the car ran fine for 4 hours at 10psi. pulled real hard to 4k, hesitated, and then ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE. car felt INSANE fast. couldnt give it gas in 5th gear after redline in 4th (dont bag on me, i had to drive a 87' mazda 323 while i built my car, and got used to it, so it felt REAL FAST). now what the hell am i to do. i have all this $$ tied up, had 5 hrs of dyno time logged to tell me that it is shutting down because of heat. WTF. why would the car run properly for 4 hours and then just stop? it obviously means that SOMETHING CHANGED. something is wrong. heat was always there. the car shuts down throttle with 5psi with 8.5:1!!! thats not right! just look at it this way, things could be worse[HR][/HR]​an MK4?


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (ventodan)*

nuts, I didn't know I could delete my own posts... crazy...
anyway, we are all better know...
Let's chaulk it up to a big misunderstanding...
Now let's try to help this guy get his car running right... both of these guy (Serge and Sonic)


----------



## BoostedBannana (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (Quiz)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Vortex has done it again. Leave it to this collaboration of misfits to find something offensive in a motor with a small operating misfortune. A dispute sends this thread into a 3-page frenzy of pure entertainment for a half hour read while eating a bag of pop secret. So bravo to those fighting for the truth in this swampland of vortex, the misinformation headquarters.

[Modified by Quiz, 1:46 AM 12-15-2002][HR][/HR]​Collaboration of Misfits???
So lets see, the Worlds Fastest Jetta vs Worlds Fastest MK4 1.8T, yup theres 2 people that have no clue whats goin on. Big misfits, they might spit a little hate back and forth, but when all is said and done there cars are still faster then 98% of the vortex community. 
And your right 50cent has no clue about vr6's, he only built 4 1/2 that run 12.2 and faster including the USA's fastest VR6, as well worked on the 2nd fastest vr6 in the USA.










One day the people will stop listening to the internet mechanics, and start listening to the real world.


----------



## ravencit (Oct 28, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (cabzilla)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The dump tube is the problem. 100% sure. [HR][/HR]​What does the dump tube have to do with anything. That has to be one of the funniest advice i have ever heard


----------



## BoostedBannana (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SERGEVR6T)*

quote:[HR][/HR]After reading through the whole topic again, i noticed the little thing that i never saw before. the car in question has the same management as mine does. I HAVE A WASTEGATE dump routed into the DP. I AM NOT sucking in any cold air. my highest advance timing in 5th gear full throttle was 23deg. I am not a mechanic, nor do i claim to be one, so i shall ask this question: is this advance too much? should there be less advance around 4k, or does this sound right on? i KNOW the fuel is correct... i was digging into my car at the same time my friend, who was a VW tech, built his VR6T, and we set that together. we then checked EVERYTHING together after the problem occured. who knows. some day i will have more money, can rent out a space to rip my car apart again and find the problem. 
and a message...
billy T was the MF man with his car. listen to what he says. i dont see video of anyone elses cars driving on the road eating texan high rollers alive. 
thanks for all the information all of you have provided. advice from people that actually know what they are doing helps. the hardest part is finding out who they are.[HR][/HR]​The car in question should be running an external wastergate routed no were. MK4 turbos from what i have seen react quite a bit differently due to the DBW.
Now again Billy is the man in his own right, and unfortunately hear in jersey we don't have vipers rolling around on the street. But just take a look at these videos of 50cents car and the cars he built.
50cent vs Nova
http://www.vwsport.com/file/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=365
50cent vs 400whp DSM vs GTI
http://www.vwsport.com/file/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=75
One of 50cents creations
http://www.vwsport.com/file/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=638
One of 50cents creations on the BRAKES raping a modified C5 vette
http://www.vwsport.com/file/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=615
One of 50cents creations on 10psi raping a VIPER
http://www.vwsport.com/file/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=616
Another of 50cents creations raping a VIPER
http://www.vwsport.com/file/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=590

Just gotta throw a little jab at Billy,







Hopefully you get that Texas joint together so we can rematch though it would be fair you being an A2.
Another of 50cents creations beating Billy T
http://www.vwsport.com/file/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=645


----------



## BoostedBannana (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (ravencit)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The dump tube is the problem. 100% sure. 
What does the dump tube have to do with anything. That has to be one of the funniest advice i have ever heard[HR][/HR]​Maybe if you had a vr6 turbo, and knew what kind of dump tube was being talked about then it's wouldn't be funny


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (ravencit)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The dump tube is the problem. 100% sure. 
What does the dump tube have to do with anything. That has to be one of the funniest advice i have ever heard[HR][/HR]​believe it or not, this is the entire crux of the entire 3 page document.


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (BoostedBannana)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Just gotta throw a little jab at Billy,







Hopefully you get that Texas joint together so we can rematch though it would be fair you being an A2.
Another of 50cents creations beating Billy T
http://www.vwsport.com/file/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=645[HR][/HR]​Hey Tim, that isn't the race that your motor blew up on it was it...








For those that don't know, Tim blew up his motor at Waterfest, racing me... of all people. Just a little friendly Jab...


----------



## Quiz (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (BoostedBannana)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Collaboration of Misfits???
So lets see, the Worlds Fastest Jetta vs Worlds Fastest MK4 1.8T, yup theres 2 people that have no clue whats goin on. Big misfits, they might spit a little hate back and forth, but when all is said and done there cars are still faster then 98% of the vortex community. 
And your right 50cent has no clue about vr6's, he only built 4 1/2 that run 12.2 and faster including the USA's fastest VR6, as well worked on the 2nd fastest vr6 in the USA.








One day the people will stop listening to the internet mechanics, and start listening to the real world.[HR][/HR]​Come on man you're kidding right? You’re getting annoyed, over a joke! Not to mention when I said misfits I was implying Vortex as a whole and yes in that joking statment that included them, myself, you and who ever else. I have never met or talked to BillyT or 50cents. So how could I really have problem personally with either. I don't think I attacked anyone’s integrity.


[Modified by Quiz, 11:49 AM 12-15-2002]


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*

since those videos are .avi, i cant watch them on my mac. im sure they are great though. 
all im saying is that with the amount of effort that the vr6 guys put into their cars, the 1.8T would be insane. bill seemed to be the bench mark in the 1.8T forum for a while, and still no one has rivaled what he has done there. Im not saying that 50cents cars are not fast. ive ridden in a APR stage 3 18t, my car, and a few other FI vws. they are all fast, but nothing beats the feeling you get in a VR6. it still doesnt change the fact that i can trust what billyt says because of what he has done WITH A NEW DBW CAR since my car is a mk4 running DBW. people with experience tuning that stuff is who i listen to. if Ventodan came on here right now, i would listen to him. 
all i want to know is how to diagnose a similar problem i am having with my car. all the videos you can post are great, and i love watching this stuff, but i dont want to have to read a war to fix my god damn car. all i care about is making my car into what it should be. tell you the truth, i dont care about any cars in texas, jersey, or anywhere else. right now, i care about the car outside of my house with the money into it that should have gone into my house! i at least need some power to make me keep the car for a while. 
thanks for all the real info.


----------



## BoostedBannana (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Just gotta throw a little jab at Billy,







Hopefully you get that Texas joint together so we can rematch though it would be fair you being an A2.
Another of 50cents creations beating Billy T
http://www.vwsport.com/file/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=645
Hey Tim, that isn't the race that your motor blew up on it was it...








For those that don't know, Tim blew up his motor at Waterfest, racing me... of all people. Just a little friendly Jab...







[HR][/HR]​Nah it's was the next run where my 13.2 beat your 14.0







HAHAHAHA.. No doubt.... Texas will be fun 
Tim


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (BoostedBannana)*

i dont care whos dick is the biggest. how about we get back to the topic now.


----------



## da frog (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SERGEVR6T)*

were do u get a dump tube or do u just get one fabercated, my vr6t bucks sometime like when i am shifting , could it be from no dumb tube


----------



## climbingcue (Feb 2, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SERGEVR6T)*

quote:[HR][/HR]i dont care whos dick is the biggest. how about we get back to the topic now.[HR][/HR]​Start a new post, so you can get the answers you want....


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (climbingcue)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Start a new post, so you can get the answers you want....[HR][/HR]​
all the people with the answers are here. just trying to resume the progress that was made previously.


----------



## 2ATMsLater (Oct 30, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SERGEVR6T)*

seeing that you dont get any CELs this might not be the problem -but my turbo VR did the same thing only it happened at 3k rpm with a T60-1 HIFI - it was the TB positioning sensor - that was my cure all


----------



## SonicVw (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (2ATMsLater)*

quote:[HR][/HR]seeing that you dont get any CELs this might not be the problem -but my turbo VR did the same thing only it happened at 3k rpm with a T60-1 HIFI - it was the TB positioning sensor - that was my cure all[HR][/HR]​A bad TPS would throw a CEL, cause I already replaced the TB for that particular problem.
I had a few people look at the TO4E 54 trim compressor map, and they came to a brief conclusion that at 5 psi I'm bearly getting on the map. Dunno...


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (2ATMsLater)*

quote:[HR][/HR]seeing that you dont get any CELs this might not be the problem -but my turbo VR did the same thing only it happened at 3k rpm with a T60-1 HIFI - it was the TB positioning sensor - that was my cure all[HR][/HR]​thanks for that info. ill look into that. i have the same turbo on my setup. 
also, i know there there is a little re-thinking i have been doing ever since reading maximum boost corky bell. as you can see in this picture, directly behind the intake manifold there is my wastegate. i filled the original outlet for it on the ATP manifold, and relocated the position to the top of the manifold. do you think this is incorrect placement because of the way the EXgas flows through the manifold? thanks for you comments, questions, and observations.










sorry, i dont have a better pic right now.


----------



## DubSpeedRacing.com (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (BoostedBannana)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Texas will be fun 
Tim[HR][/HR]​You don't even know.....its on man, its on... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (BoostedBannana)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Nah it's was the next run where my 13.2 beat your 14.0







HAHAHAHA.. No doubt.... Texas will be fun 
Tim[HR][/HR]​14.0 @ 114


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SERGEVR6T)*

quote:[HR][/HR], directly behind the intake manifold there is my wastegate. i filled the original outlet for it on the ATP manifold, and relocated the position to the top of the manifold. do you think this is incorrect placement because of the way the EXgas flows through the manifold? thanks for you comments, questions, and observations.[HR][/HR]​Nah, that was a good thing to do. Anytime you can vent boost from the "collector area" you will always get better boost response and a smoother running engine....


----------



## Boge VR6 (Aug 24, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*

so im guessing this is all because of stock engine management?


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (Boge VR6)*

the only thing stock about the engine management is the actual ecu itself. EIP FLASHED THEIR PROGRAMMING IN FOR ME. THE TIMING RETARDS. THE dealer # on the ECU IS NOT THE ONE FROM MY DEALER. i know it has been flashed, i know the timing is nocked back where it needs to be. that said, help.


----------



## Boge VR6 (Aug 24, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SERGEVR6T)*

i think ur problem is the EIP part ...


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (Boge VR6)*

i am aware of the EIP problem. however, management does not change, and the car ran well for 4 hours.


----------



## CapeGLS (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SERGEVR6T)*

Bump for scotty, Good luck.. I hope you figure it all out soon Happy Holidays to all


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (CapeGLS)*

thanks dustin. you gonna be around fer the holidays? stop by my work and say hello. 
any more info about the TBPS?? ill have to look into it.
and BTW, i had my car running at 10psi today with no problems. starting to think more and more that the heat issue under the hood is a reality, and that i should start planning for the next installment of upgrades.


----------



## CapeGLS (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SERGEVR6T)*

Ill be home. Ill swing in, Scott ever think about some vents or something. I saw an orange GTI with some fender vents or even a WRX hood scoop... I know they dont like right but it may help.... Just Ideas...


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (CapeGLS)*

I stuck a WRX scoop on my old hood... under hood temps were seriously decreased...
The only bad part is that it let alot of water in too... And I think it may have brought my trap speeds down a bit... not sure how important that is to you...
As far as what is up with your car, it is really hard to specualte based on what you have said, as to how it runs now, but it seemed that my car ran different almost every day when I first put tall the big stuff on... One day it was fine, and the next day, I wasn't making the same power. At first, I used to get really smooth normal looking dyno graphs, then one day they were wavy, and stayed wavy for a while. Now, they are smooth again. The car always pulled the same, never felt the waves, but the were there, real consistant too.
I think alot of your problem, is that the ECU has a certain amount of learning that it can do. Even with the new software... And the enviorment that it is in is way hostile to it. It was less of a problem for me with the car being turbo already, but for the DBW VR... I bet Dan knows alot about your situation, but he is like the Howard Hughs of VW tuning


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*

i think the car is just going to have to go stand alone. a few people i know with 1000hp mustangs are using DFI, from accell. they have a smartie doing the tuning. their cars run low-mid 8s on street tires. it has a parachute. they can hook me up with everything i need for CHEAP. we shall see. going back under the knife soon.


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SERGEVR6T)*

quote:[HR][/HR]. their cars run low-mid 8s on street tires. [HR][/HR]​not on street tires








No car runs 8s on radials...


----------



## bmxvr6 (Dec 11, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*

Yeah, the world record is still like 9.20's I think. 8's on street tires is nutty.


----------



## CapeGLS (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (bmxvr6)*

Could be STREET TIRES THAT WERE SHAVED OF THEIR TREDS


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (CapeGLS)*

contrary to popular belief, bald street tires are NOT better for traction(they are not slicks.)


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

quote:[HR][/HR]contrary to popular belief, bald street tires are NOT better for traction(they are not slicks.)[HR][/HR]​but they are slick...


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

They're not "slicks", but assuming the compound is the same throughout then you do have some increased rubber area...


----------



## BoostedBannana (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (bmxvr6)*

Nah mustangs have broken into the 8's with drag radials, poop if titan supra went 9.002 @160, you don't think mustangs could pull an 8's. I think it's around 8.6-7 the record now... but not 100% sure of exact time but definately in the 8's in the mustang street tire class...


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (BoostedBannana)*

he runs a street class with a full cage, one race seat for driver, one stock seat up front, and a back seat. SUPER wide tires. It is a street car class, so i would think it is on street tires. Next time i have my camera with my, i will take pics of the car...
what i do know:
t88 innovative turbo, testing with a t91(seeing is believing)
4" exhaust exiting in front of the front passenger tire
GIANT watercooler with a 5gal cell in the rear. cooler welded in under the windshield, behind the fire wall passenger side
DFI engine management
5.0 block punched out to unknown spec
these are just a few things i know of at a glance. in 2 weeks i will have pics of the car. you can also try looking the car up. the name of the team is 'anarchy racecraft' from cape cod, mass. the driver's name is Peter. i cant find any info on the web right now. i will find something though.


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SERGEVR6T)*

There is a guy in Dallas that has a 1000 whp turbo Mustang... thing is nuts, stiull has AC and power steering... I have heard him spin tires at 1000ft on low boost. He was running Nitto DRs at the time.... Car is pretty sick... runs on 18" Azevs... Fox body LX... sick car for sure... I think he was running high 10s at 135+, the first time for the car down the track...


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*

i wish i had more info readily available to me about the mustang. i will find out what exact class the car runs, some more REAL specs, etc. until then, keep boostin.


----------



## TheDeer (Sep 21, 2000)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SERGEVR6T)*

I ran at Island once, and the car that tech'd behind me was a twin turbo mustang. (5.0 body style). That thing was nuts, had turbo's that were the same or larger than T04's on it. (I only say them for a second. He said it dyno'ed at 800+whp, and he just got back from the dyno and he was going to see what it could do. I never got a chance to see it run, but it was sick.


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (TheDeer)*

not to get off topic totally, but the guy with the crazy mustang i talk about... his brother has a twin turbo mustang... silly power. lites em up in 4th, NO clutch. these guys have just been commisioned to build 2 9sec mustangs for 40k a piece. like i said, ill get the pics and back myself up VERY soon.


----------



## CapeGLS (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SERGEVR6T)*

Crazy power is a mustang, never mind dual turbos







cant wait to see pics.


----------



## GTI2lo (Dec 19, 1999)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (CapeGLS)*

8's in an import on street tires has already happened with Paul Efantis and his toyota supra. running motec management, turbonetics y2k turbo, nos, built internals, etc. Car runs 8.83 on street tire. Check out the november issue of http://www.modified.com


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2001)

No flames here, just facts.
You can certainly run the WG to atmosphere without ANY problems whatsoever. Been there, done that. Doing so makes just as much power as running a "dump tube" (down to where the downpipe bends to go horizontal under the car). However, with venting the WG to atmosphere, you're allowing exhaust gases to vent into the engine compartment, which we don't prefer. 
What we do for our kits (because of noise) is to merge the wastegate exhaust (dump tube) into the downpipe. We do this at an extremely steep angle so as to not cause turbulence.
So, I would say that SonicVW's problems are not caused by a dump tube or lack thereof. Something else is going on.
Again, from our experience, running the dump tube or WG to atmosphere has made the most power and will not cause ANY ill effects in drivability.
HTH,
Jeremy


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... ([email protected])*

quote:[HR][/HR]No flames here, just facts.
You can certainly run the WG to atmosphere without ANY problems whatsoever. Been there, done that. Doing so makes just as much power as running a "dump tube" (down to where the downpipe bends to go horizontal under the car). However, with venting the WG to atmosphere, you're allowing exhaust gases to vent into the engine compartment, which we don't prefer. 
What we do for our kits (because of noise) is to merge the wastegate exhaust (dump tube) into the downpipe. We do this at an extremely steep angle so as to not cause turbulence.
So, I would say that SonicVW's problems are not caused by a dump tube or lack thereof. Something else is going on.
Again, from our experience, running the dump tube or WG to atmosphere has made the most power and will not cause ANY ill effects in drivability.
HTH,
Jeremy[HR][/HR]​Amen......


----------



## AllisonJM (Dec 5, 1999)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (GTI2lo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]8's in an import on street tires has already happened with Paul Efantis and his toyota supra. running motec management, turbonetics y2k turbo, nos, built internals, etc. Car runs 8.83 on street tire. Check out the november issue of http://www.modified.com[HR][/HR]​Double check your facts... it says the car is street driven, but ran that time on slicks. The car is just crazy running 8's and still being street driven, but couldn't do it on street tires.


----------



## BoostedBannana (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (AllisonJM)*

Paul Efantis has run 8's on E/T streets..... he best e/t is on slicks... at the final Imstar even at Atco... i know he had been 8.90 on E/T streets in idrc competition.


----------



## AllisonJM (Dec 5, 1999)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (BoostedBannana)*

He previously listed the article in modified magazine. In that article it says he was running on drag slicks.. I guess we all know how long it takes to get to print and the changes that happen in the meantime. 8 second timeslips are impressive none the less


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (AllisonJM)*

what constitutes a "street tire"??
are drag radials street tires? Are dot approved slicks street tires??


----------



## AllisonJM (Dec 5, 1999)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

From what I understand MT E/T streets are DOT approved street tires. Now in reality are they streetable... from what I've seen they are full blown slicks that have a few fine lines resembling tread cut into them. In race classes I think they are considered street tires so in this case he ran 8's on "street" tires.


----------



## serge03 (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (AllisonJM)*

alright, i got some information from my friend about the mustang. It runs in the NMRA- national mustang racing association or something like that. Runs in the BFGoodrich drag radial class, which would be a street tire. best time was a 8.6 @168mph. i should be able to get down to the shop tomorrow afternoon to snap off some pics of the whole car, etc. i will find out EXACTLY what class he runs. 

and some interesting new facts about my car.
in the 20deg F weather im having, i am running 8.5-10 psi easily, without the TB shutting things down.
bad news. 
water pump for my air/water is not pumping anything. noticed it tonight. sucks. ill find out WTF the deal is.


----------



## ForcefedVR6 (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (SonicVw)*

First off let me just say I have a VR6T. Secondly I have WG to atmosphere and have never had any problems with bucking.


----------



## BoostedBannana (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (ForcefedVR6)*

First off let me ask is this an ATP Turbo Kit???? and there is nothing off the wastegate it's just dumping into the engine bay...
2nd question... What does your car run in the 1/4 mile? or If your a typical west coast guy... What does it dyno....
Show me it's making power.


----------



## BoostedBannana (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (speed51133!)*

DOT approved it street tire.... and actually people are having the same results on the new BFG drag radials as e/t streets and there more then a couple grooves... and Efantis has also run BFG drag radials and i know he went 9's...


----------



## norman (Mar 8, 2001)

*Re: VR6T owners wanted... (1.BillyT)*

quote:[HR][/HR]. their cars run low-mid 8s on street tires. 
not on street tires








No car runs 8s on radials...[HR][/HR]​he said street tires not drag radial. MT ET streets are *technically* street tires adn are bias ply wrinkle wall slicks with like 5 little tiny tread thingys in them, ive seen a camaro a GTO and a mustang run 8's on these in a 33x19.5 15(15x15in wheel







). all of them had plates and were registered for the street. here in MN we have no emmisions testing so i doubt any of these cars with the exception of the GTO because of its age would be street legal elsewhere.


----------

