# Which Turbo Setup?!?!?!?!



## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Ok, I'm new to the Audi world so I don't know much. First, I have a 2002 Audi TT Quatto 225 motor AMU code. Currentods are: Neuspeed intake, Forge DV/BOV Splitter, Miltek cat back exhaust. In the works is 42DD catless downpipe, custom 3" exhaust, FMIC, injectors of some sort, and southbend clutch and flywheel. I want to upgrade the turbo but can't decide on what. Budge is round $4000 for turbo. Is like to make between 325-400 hp. I've seen the Frankenturbo, Garrett eliminator, Pagparts turbo kit. I just don't know what to do. Any help please?


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## crazybohunk (May 24, 2011)

*which turbo setup*



roadking90 said:


> Ok, I'm new to the Audi world so I don't know much. First, I have a 2002 Audi TT Quatto 225 motor AMU code. Currentods are: Neuspeed intake, Forge DV/BOV Splitter, Miltek cat back exhaust. In the works is 42DD catless downpipe, custom 3" exhaust, FMIC, injectors of some sort, and southbend clutch and flywheel. I want to upgrade the turbo but can't decide on what. Budge is round $4000 for turbo. Is like to make between 325-400 hp. I've seen the Frankenturbo, Garrett eliminator, Pagparts turbo kit. I just don't know what to do. Any help please?


 Hi there, 

This is a very controversial subject and you will probably get a lot of opinions. 

Doug at Frankenturbo has a Audi TT test platform that he has been tweaking for a while. 

He would be a good resource to talk to. 

So here is my opinion. 

I went the Franketurbo F23 way when my stock K04 turbo crapped out. 

I put in the 42 Draft Design exhaust and Neuspeed short intake. 

I also used the Unitronics stage 2 + tune for it 

This is well under 4k but there is much more room for improvement. 

I would be surprised if this current tune is over 300 hp. 

So now you are looking at a better tune maestro has a kit for custom tuning again Doug could help here. 

So that will cost a few bucks more. 

Then you get into water or meth kits for cooling. 

Then you get into different Intercoolers again for cooling. 

Then if you get really brave you can use E85 Ethanal blended fuels ala Madmax setups. 

If you go that way then improving the internals of the engine is probably required. 

Now you can go big Turbo like a Garret but the same issues apply. 

This is just a taste to give you a flavor for it. There is a 1.8 liter engine forum on Vortex that goes into this stuff with much more detail. 

Good luck on your build  

Randy.


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## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

Gtx ftw


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

GTX FTW? Nog understanding the lingo. And I have read some good reviews up here bout the pagparts turbo kit. Anyone tried it that can ring in? Also, everyone cast your votes for what I should go with.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

I think people focus way too much on horsepower figures when designing their modification plans. The first thing you need to know, way before how much power you'd like to make, is what your intended use is going to be for the car. A turbo that doesn't make you wait for power, will likely fall out where the more laggy ones live and shine. 

Answer the fundamental questions about how you intend to use the car and its effective powerband, then we can somewhat guide you towards the proper hardware to get there. IMO, it's like asking about the best shoes to buy, but not saying if you're going to run a marathon or go ballroom dancing.


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## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> I think people focus way too much on horsepower figures when designing their modification plans. The first thing you need to know, way before how much power you'd like to make, is what your intended use is going to be for the car. A turbo that doesn't make you wait for power, will likely fall out where the more laggy ones live and shine.
> 
> Answer the fundamental questions about how you intend to use the car and its effective powerband, then we can somewhat guide you towards the proper hardware to get there. IMO, it's like asking about the best shoes to buy, but not saying if you're going to run a marathon or go ballroom dancing.


 i see this reply way to often and if i may interject. if they ask for 300hp or 400hp why not give then the fastest spooling setup for requested hp goals. clearly hes not wanting to go massive turbo that get 400hp at 5k and spools at 4500rpm. i don't have first hand EXP with the GTX series yet "currently building" but the billet wheel and dual BB are claimed to have good spool times and good HP figures in the 400hp range as far as kits go i really cant be of help but Pag-Parts has allot of support on this forum. 

the turbo I'm thinking your looking for would be: Garrett GTX2863R should give you 350-400whp with the proper mods and spool up decent. i would replace rods with any turbo over a K04. its just safe.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks, I'll be more like running a 100 meter dash. No chance to autocross where I live. All we have is drag strips, and that's where I'm always at. I am in a car club and trying to have the fastest car in the group. There's cars like: 3 Infinity G37 one is turbo, 2 350Z, built SRT-4, built integra and a massive Camaro. If I can get a 1/4 mile time of 12.5s or less ill be happy as Hell. Also, to help with lag and such I have the WOT box.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

taverncustoms said:


> i see this reply way to often and if i may interject. if they ask for 300hp or 400hp why not give then the fastest spooling setup for requested hp goals. clearly hes not wanting to go massive turbo that get 400hp at 5k and spools at 4500rpm. i don't have first hand EXP with the GTX series yet "currently building" but the billet wheel and dual BB are claimed to have good spool times and good HP figures in the 400hp range as far as kits go i really cant be of help but Pag-Parts has allot of support on this forum.
> 
> the turbo I'm thinking your looking for would be: Garrett GTX2863R should give you 350-400whp with the proper mods and spool up decent. i would replace rods with any turbo over a K04. its just safe.


 Problem with your logic is that the quickest spooling turbo to get 300 whp will choke in the upper rev range. The quickest spooling turbo to get to 400 whp may lack the early punch that some seek. Without knowing the intended use, it's hard to recommend something to someone when you will have to compromise and give something up with the turbo selection.


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## jbrehm (May 16, 2006)

To beat those cars, we'd have to know what turbos they're running. For all we know the SRT-4 and G37 have GT35+ turbos! 

That said, to be running with cars like that you're going to need rods at a minimum, and I suggest just building a 2.0L. These cars are no Evos - where you can just slap on a larger turbo and make 400+wHP - it takes a lot of money/work to build a _reliable_ 400+wHP car. I have much more money into supporting mods like clutches, manifolds, ICs, suspension, fueling, heat management, etc., than I do any turbo kit out there.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

roadking90 said:


> Thanks, I'll be more like running a 100 meter dash. No chance to autocross where I live. All we have is drag strips, and that's where I'm always at. I am in a car club and trying to have the fastest car in the group. There's cars like: 3 Infinity G37 one is turbo, 2 350Z, built SRT-4, built integra and a massive Camaro. If I can get a 1/4 mile time of 12.5s or less ill be happy as Hell. Also, to help with lag and such I have the WOT box.


 Ok good! Taking what you said into consideration, I think we can cross out the FT hybrids and GT28 series. Problem is, the budget is super tight at 4k as there will be a need for a lot of supporting mods besides the turbo kit, and you would need uprated internals to fully take advantage of the potential.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

GTX FTW = use a GTX turbo "For The Win." That said, for 400whp, I'd look at a 2871/3071 with internal WG to keep the costs down and simplicity up. Doing it all on $4K will be tough since you'll need aftermarket rods. I made 415HP at 22 psi on pump gas with a 3076, intake mani, AEB head, Pag Parts kit, 630cc injectors, software, FMIC, fuel pump, rods, external WG, BOV, etc. It adds up fast.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I think something smart to remember is that the TT will not beat the above mentioned *turbo* cars in a straight line race. A G37 with a turbo could put down a lot of power. So can an SRT4 and both could be more reliable than a TT with a BT.

With that said you can probably run a good time. Also hold back on your DP purchase. I like 42DD but their downpipe will not fit your new BT and you'll be doing that project twice.

You're likely spending 1k+ on a clutch. If drag racing is your thing you're going to need a pretty hardcore pucked setup or a twin disc. I cannot launch my car with the clutch I have in it now.

You'll easily spend 4k on a turbo kit

Leave another grand for software

the list can keep going, your best bet is finding a used turbo kit. I think I saw one in the classifieds not so long ago.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Well, with all the mods I have about a $7000 budget. $2000 of that is for the clutch. The cars I'm going up against aren't to beastly. Like I said they run between 12.5-13.8s in the 1/4. Before the G35 went turbo I would kill him on the drag. The SRT-4 has the stock clutch. Right now I'm somewhere in the 14's. So 20v master, how much did your setup cost roughly? What kind of power are you putting down and any drag times? From anybody with their setup?


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

roadking90 said:


> So 20v master, how much did your setup cost roughly? What kind of power are you putting down and any drag times?


 That setup with stock pistons and stroke made 470whp on race gas and 29 psi, but it was in my FWD GTI. It ran [email protected] on the best pass I ever made. The TT wouldn't be that quick due to weight. You won't spend $2K on a clutch unless you buy a twin/triple disc setup. Cost of my setup? Who knows. You quit keeping track at some point. :laugh: Now it's a stroker with a 3582 that is going in my 225 TT though, hope to have it running this spring.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

The clutch is a southbend and I want to say it was a twin disc. That $2k us including installation since I don't have the tools and such to do a lot of work myself. I just want to have the badest ass TT I can for my money. I know I won't be able to afford a BT but I want to upgrade. Who out there has the same car as me with some smaller upgrade turbo, 3" downpipe, cat-back, tune, injectors, water meth injection, and FMIC. What is your power output and times?


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Ok, checked pagparts. Their kit with a GT3076R turbo and upgraded wastegate is right under $4K. That plus the CTS FMIC, downpipe, custom exhaust, 600 something injectors, 4 bar fpr, whatever tune is the best, and possibly meth injection. Will all that put me close to what I am looking for?


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

roadking90 said:


> Ok, checked pagparts. Their kit with a GT3076R turbo and upgraded wastegate is right under $4K. That plus the CTS FMIC, downpipe, custom exhaust, 600 something injectors, 4 bar fpr, whatever tune is the best, and possibly meth injection. Will all that put me close to what I am looking for?


 The CTS FMIC and downpipe won't mate up with the Pag kit without some modification. You should call and talk to Arnold, he can put together a FMIC and DP for the kit for you at reasonable prices. You don't need a 4 bar FPR or meth injection to hit 400awhp on a 3076R.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Also, what is the fueling software for?


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

So I can get close to 400hp with the 3076?


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## Atomic Ed (Mar 19, 2009)

To get the power to the ground, you should also look into a new haldex controller for your awd. THe performance controller will get all 4 wheels to bite and help with the lauch. HPA has them.


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## mbaron (Aug 21, 2008)

roadking90 said:


> Also, what is the fueling software for?


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## StateSideS3 (Apr 13, 2007)

pretty sure the pagparts kit coems wiht a DP, but def not a fmic, that would be additional


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

roadking90 said:


> So I can get close to 400hp with the 3076?


 A 3076 will do well over 500awhp. That's why I said 2871/3071 in my original suggestion. For software I ran Unitronics, but would go Eurodyne Maestro if I was starting from scratch to be able to account for mods as you make them.


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## Atomic Ed (Mar 19, 2009)

I would suggest you take some time and do some research to build your base knowledge, both on this site and other sites. Everyone here is being helpful, but without context with their suggestions, you'll get into a mess quick and become disgruntled with the whole project. 

Find out who the local guys are and spend some time with them. Buy them a beer and bum some rides. 

Read until your eyes bleed.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Atomic Ed said:


> Read until your eyes bleed.


 THIS ^^^ repetitively

start here: http://www.audiforums.com/forum/audi-tt-7/***big-turbo-high-performance***-94165/


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

I know. I'm sorry to bother yawl with so many questions its just I'm so excited bout this new world I'm involved with and want to learn all I can. Talked to pagparts and the best setup me, pagparts and the local shop came up with is the following: pagparts turbo kit with GT3071R, their intercooler and HKS BOV, 660 injectors, software and fuel pump which will run me $6240. Plus $2K for stage 3 clutch installed, 20mm rods, berrings, new gaskets and water/meth injection. They said that could get me 400+ and all for round $8-9k after all is said and done. Sounds like my best bet.


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## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

another option is weight reduction. the TT is a fat bitch you can drop 800+lbs just from interior and trunk alone, not to mention the iron 50+lb weight bolted to the rear bumper. the lower dash weighs nearly 50+lbs and serves no function other then a glove box and a light switch.


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## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

roadking90 said:


> I know. I'm sorry to bother yawl with so many questions its just I'm so excited bout this new world I'm involved with and want to learn all I can. Talked to pagparts and the best setup me, pagparts and the local shop came up with is the following: pagparts turbo kit with GT3071R, their intercooler and HKS BOV, 660 injectors, software and fuel pump which will run me $6240. Plus $2K for stage 3 clutch installed, 20mm rods, berrings, new gaskets and water/meth injection. They said that could get me 400+ and all for round $8-9k after all is said and done. Sounds like my best bet.


 :thumbup: opcorn:


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## Chuckmeister87 (Nov 10, 2009)

Pics, dyno runs, drag clips when/if this happens 
opcorn:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

taverncustoms said:


> another option is weight reduction. the TT is a fat bitch you can drop 800+lbs just from interior and trunk alone, not to mention the iron 50+lb weight bolted to the rear bumper. the lower dash weighs nearly 50+lbs and serves no function other then a glove box and a light switch.


 Very true, weight reduction would be a great help in reaching the OP's goals. However, your numbers are way too optimistic, 800 lbs wouldn't be realistic unless you trash that iconic interior that makes the TT what it is. IMO, 300-400 lbs is what's feasible without compromising comfort, look, or safety. Although 800 lbs would be nice, it's a bit out of touch... just like the 50 lbs number you put on the 35 lbs "harmonic ballast" bolted to the rear of the car. :laugh:


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## Atomic Ed (Mar 19, 2009)

roadking90 said:


> I know. I'm sorry to bother yawl with so many questions its just I'm so excited bout this new world I'm involved with and want to learn all I can. Talked to pagparts and the best setup me, pagparts and the local shop came up with is the following: pagparts turbo kit with GT3071R, their intercooler and HKS BOV, 660 injectors, software and fuel pump which will run me $6240. Plus $2K for stage 3 clutch installed, 20mm rods, berrings, new gaskets and water/meth injection. They said that could get me 400+ and all for round $8-9k after all is said and done. Sounds like my best bet.


 This will be a great setup! Ask PagParts about their billet compressor wheel. Faster spoolup and a better top end.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

The only weight reduction I want to do is remove the rear seat. 

With everything excluding labor cost is *$7200*


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## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Very true, weight reduction would be a great help in reaching the OP's goals. However, your numbers are way too optimistic, 800 lbs wouldn't be realistic unless you trash that iconic interior that makes the TT what it is. IMO, 300-400 lbs is what's feasible without compromising comfort, look, or safety. Although 800 lbs would be nice, it's a bit out of touch... just like the 50 lbs number you put on the 35 lbs "harmonic ballast" bolted to the rear of the car. :laugh:


 you can get 800 lbs from interior, I did, but it will be Racecar. and ya SORRY 35lb weight not 50 lol.


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## DUBBED-OUT (Mar 21, 2008)

DougLoBue said:


> With that said you can probably run a good time. Also hold back on your DP purchase. I like 42DD but their downpipe will not fit your new BT and you'll be doing that project twice.


 OP You've got a lot of research to do...


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

CTS Turbo has a kit and using the same turbo and everything plus a SEM intake manifold its only $300 more than pagparts kit. So I guess it would be worth it to get the manifold.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Does that sound like a good deal?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Very true, weight reduction would be a great help in reaching the OP's goals. However...unless you trash that iconic interior that makes the TT what it is...IMO, 300-400 lbs is what's feasible without compromising comfort, look, or safety.


 OP -- if this racing nut can still keep things in perspective, I'm sure you can too. Don't gut your car for meaningless fractions of a second. There's nothing like a TT. You're lucky to have one.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Oh I definattly would not gut my beautiful car. The only thing I would do would be removing the rear seat. I think 400-500 whp with that setup I'll stand pretty good against the cars round here. Not too many that run 12's and very very few in the 11's. So I feel pretty good about my choice.


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## Atomic Ed (Mar 19, 2009)

roadking90 said:


> CTS Turbo has a kit and using the same turbo and everything plus a SEM intake manifold its only $300 more than pagparts kit. So I guess it would be worth it to get the manifold.


 Don't forget to add the Haldex controller to your budget. Without it, you'll have a tough time laying down the power. 

About a grand for one.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Atomic Ed said:


> Don't forget to add the Haldex controller to your budget. Without it, you'll have a tough time laying down the power.
> 
> About a grand for one.


 Ed, I totally agree that a performance controller is a great addition to any TT, powerful or not. The improved speed and aggressiveness of torque transfer to the rear is something that a high HP car wil benefit from. 

With that said, I don't think that the stock unit has any problem handling very high torque transfer even early in the powerband. I spike more TQ down low than any big turbo and I've never had an issue with putting power down. The EDL does a decent job at controlling front wheel spin and the factory mapped controller just sends power gradually to the rear. Can the process be improved and speed up? Can the the dynamics be improved by keeping the rear engaged under braking? Can rear transfer be applied more on TQ request (pedal position) than actual wheel spin? The answer to all these questions is yes, however the stock stock unit does an acceptable job (even on my TQ monster). :beer:


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Agreed, I have zero grip issues even with a very quick boost onset (goes from Toyota Camry to F430 around 4,500rpms). If anything I spin all four in the rain or with crappy tires.


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## Atomic Ed (Mar 19, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Ed, I totally agree that a performance controller is a great addition to any TT, powerful or not. The improved speed and aggressiveness of torque transfer to the rear is something that a high HP car wil benefit from.
> 
> With that said, I don't think that the stock unit has any problem handling very high torque transfer even early in the powerband. I spike more TQ down low than any big turbo and I've never had an issue with putting power down. The EDL does a decent job at controlling front wheel spin and the factory mapped controller just sends power gradually to the rear. Can the process be improved and speed up? Can the the dynamics be improved by keeping the rear engaged under braking? Can rear transfer be applied more on TQ request (pedal position) than actual wheel spin? The answer to all these questions is yes, however the stock stock unit does an acceptable job (even on my TQ monster). :beer:


 Interesting, but I found that I can launch a lot better with the blue haldex controller than I could with the stock controller. Given my limited experience, and that his interest is drag racing, I would still recommend it. 

Maybe I just "think" I can launch harder because of the investment and or experience with the car.(?)


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Atomic Ed said:


> Interesting, but I found that I can launch a lot better with the blue haldex controller than I could with the stock controller. Given my limited experience, and that his interest is drag racing, I would still recommend it.
> 
> Maybe I just "think" I can launch harder because of the investment and or experience with the car.(?)


 Oh, don't get me wrong, I recommend upgraded controllers even at stock power levels and DD. In a launch, the blue and competition controllers won't do much as you get power transferred to the rear with less than a degree of front spin with OEM mapping in the controller. Where they really shine is with transfer of power to the rear even without front spin based on TQ request wich is a function of throttle angle (preventive instead of reactive). 

I think that knowing you have the controller inspired confidence and allowed improved launch. I never had an issue launching my car as long as I nailed the RPM when dropping the clutch (easier said than done when you don't have a stationary rev limiter). 

The stock controller does a fine job once the clutch is released, nailing the RPM is the challenge.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> as long as I nailed the RPM when dropping the clutch (easier said than done when you don't have a stationary rev limiter).
> 
> The stock controller does a fine job once the clutch is released, nailing the RPM is the challenge.


 WOT Box FTW!


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

20v master said:


> WOT Box FTW!


 No No No, ECU based launch control FTW! 

I've had it activated in my car for a few weeks now, as we'll as disabling the left foot braking throttle cut (Thanks Gonzo Tuning! :beer


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> No No No, ECU based launch control FTW!
> 
> I've had it activated in my car for a few weeks now, as we'll as disabling the left foot braking throttle cut (Thanks Gonzo Tuning! :beer


 And I've had a WOT box for 3 years. Same = same.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

20v master said:


> And I've had a WOT box for 3 years. Same = same.


 4 feet of flames and sounds like a shotgun :thumbup:

clutch slips on launch :thumbdown:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

20v master said:


> Same = same.


 Agree, in terms of pure functionality they are like you said "Same = same". 

When you have nothing to install, package, potentially fail, and it's done remotely for $0, "Same" quickly becomes sweeter than "same" :laugh:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Agree, in terms of pure functionality they are like you said "Same = same".
> 
> When you have nothing to install, package, potentially fail, and it's done remotely for $0, "Same" quickly becomes sweeter than "same" :laugh:


 I knew you'd have a reply. :laugh: And your option wasn't available 3 years ago when the WOT box was. :thumbup: 



DougLoBue said:


> 4 feet of flames and sounds like a shotgun :thumbup:
> 
> clutch slips on launch :thumbdown:


 Making power is easy. Launching is HARD!


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## Atomic Ed (Mar 19, 2009)

20v master said:


> Making power is easy. Launching is HARD!


 Exactly!, that's why I sucked at racing..... I built nasty fast motorcycles, but horrible driving skills.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Oh I definatly will be getting the WOT Box with no lift shift. For $200 its the best thing I can do. My friend has it on his Integra and it makes a great difference.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

roadking90 said:


> Oh I definatly will be getting the WOT Box with no lift shift. For $200 its the best thing I can do. My friend has it on his Integra and it makes a great difference.


 What Max is trying to say is that it now comes free with most customizable software. Maestro is the tune I use that comes with a built in 2step/launch control. Since going big turbo you're going to need software anyway, consider it free.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Oh I got you. I didn't know that. That's why I love this forum, I learn something new everyday. Helps to keep me from getting ripped off. Does the tune have no lift shift?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

roadking90 said:


> Oh I got you. I didn't know that. That's why I love this forum, I learn something new everyday. Helps to keep me from getting ripped off. Does the tune have no lift shift?


 Yes it has no lift as well. I never really know what they are all called. It's a WOT box with both functions.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Ok, well here is another delima. CTS Turbo kit With the Garrett GT3071r or the Forced Fed turbo kit with the Persision 58/57 or 60/57? Cant decide which one. Getting the kit from forced fed will be more but Ed described to me that the tubular exhaust manifold that they use allows more power. Has anyone here used that kit? More power? and is it worth it?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

roadking90 said:


> Ok, well here is another delima. CTS Turbo kit With the Garrett GT3071r or the Forced Fed turbo kit with the Persision 58/57 or 60/57? Cant decide which one. Getting the kit from forced fed will be more but Ed described to me that the tubular exhaust manifold that they use allows more power. Has anyone here used that kit? More power? and is it worth it?


 Yes, Yes and Yes.

Go with Ed. I have the exact same kit on my car. I made 465awhp with it at 28lbs of boost. He had a red TT mk1 coupe in his shop with a CTS kit making significantly less power at the front wheels.

My thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5497325-Big-turbo-build-take-two


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> Yes, Yes and Yes.
> 
> Go with Ed. I have the exact same kit on my car. I made 465awhp with it at 28lbs of boost. He had a red TT mk1 coupe in his shop with a CTS kit making significantly less power at the front wheels.
> 
> My thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5497325-Big-turbo-build-take-two


 Agreed. CTS kit isn't all that IMO. Pain to work on, horrible WG placement if you ever have it come loose or if you want to change a spring. Tubular manifold will always make more power, but there are compromises, lag for one is slightly more.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

^^^ OP, listen to this guy! He is the resident BT expert... or should I say master


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Ok. U really want to thank everyone for their help and knowledge. If it won't for these forums I wouldn't hardly know crap.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Doug, do you have the 180 or 225 motor? Mine is the 225, will I be able to make that kind of hp with the same setup as u but without the AEB head?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The Precision turbo offered by FFE is a modern turbo. The Garret GT units have old-fangled compressor wheels that are laggy and underperforming. Add a fancy FFE-designed manifold and you have a much better-rounded car.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

So, here is the senario. The FFE turbo kit/ Persision 58/58 Turbo, Tubular Manifold, FFE Custom FMIC, 1000cc Injectors, Warbro 225 LPH Pump, Eurodyne Maestro Software, IE Connecting Rods, Calico Coated Berrings, FFE Custom Intake Manifold, HEMI 80mm Throttle Body, Eurodyne Boost Manager with water/meth Injection, HKS SSQ BOV, Custom 3" exhaust. All that together, costing round $10,000-$11,000 with labor, can that get me round 450whp?


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

So the everything from FFE, http://store.forcefedengineering.com/shoppingcart.asp, is about $1000 more than CTS, https://secure.ctsturbo.com/index.php?pcsid=ek9j04plge262e4okvs6gk37e5&p=cart, and that is with adding the Garrett GT3071r to the CTS turbo kit, if I went with the base turbo its a $1800 difference. Is the tubular manifold worth that much of a difference?


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Also, the reason you see 3 intercooler cores, 7 injectors, and the frankenturbo is just to list a price for what I want. The 3 cores equal the price of the FMIC, the 7 injectors equal the price of the 4 injectors I want, and the frankenturbo equals the price of FFE's intake manifold.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

You can't share links to shopping carts. It just says cart is empty when anyone else clicks on it. And no one is going to be able to tell you if the difference is worth the extra costs. That's based on your financial status and goals. Speaking of goals, what are yours? You started off saying 325 to 400, and in the course of a week's worth of shopping, your new goal is 450hp. Are you using this car for road racing, auto-x, drag racing, spirited mountain/canyon carving, daily driving? You need to figure out what you're going to use it for before you know what your goals are, rather than just picking a number that sounds fun, because that number, as you can see, is likely to keep going up and up and up just because it's just that easy on paper.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Sorry, I thought it would work. My goal is to drag race and some street racing. I want to get over 400whp if possible. From FFE, getting the turbo kit/w perssision 58/58 turbo and custom tubular exhaust manifold, FFE custom FMIC and Intake Manifold, Eurodyen Maestro Software and Boost Manager Plus, 1000cc Injectors, Warbro Fuel Pump, IE Connecting Rods and Calico Coated berrings. The only difference between the FFE and CTS is the CTS kit will come with Garrett GT3071r Turbo, regular cast exhaust manifold, CTS Custom FMIC, and SEM Intake Manifold. The price difference is FFE is $800 more. If I didnt select a different turbo for the CTS kit and stuck with the base turbo the difference would be about $1600. Is it worth the $800 for the tubular Exhaust manifold vs the cast manifold and the FFE custom intake manifold vs the SEM manifold from the CTS kit? My goal is to have a 1/4 mile et of round low 12's.


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## crazybohunk (May 24, 2011)

roadking90 said:


> So, here is the senario. The FFE turbo kit/ Persision 58/58 Turbo, Tubular Manifold, FFE Custom FMIC, 1000cc Injectors, Warbro 225 LPH Pump, Eurodyne Maestro Software, IE Connecting Rods, Calico Coated Berrings, FFE Custom Intake Manifold, HEMI 80mm Throttle Body, Eurodyne Boost Manager with water/meth Injection, HKS SSQ BOV, Custom 3" exhaust. All that together, costing round $10,000-$11,000 with labor, can that get me round 450whp?




So much for your $4000.00 budget:laugh:


With my new Integrated Engineered Racing Long block I will be up to about 15k spent so far.

Randy.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

Well like i said, plans changed. A little bit more money has come into the budget so I can do bout $11000 now, but not much more.


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## babarber (Nov 3, 2008)

when it comes to a budget you have to pick and choose where you spend your money to get the most benefit
if your serious about drag racing on a budget that is something you need to think about.

EX:
1)an air to water IC will do as much and more then a fmic with much less time and money involved
Frozenboost
can be cumstomized to your specific needs for much less then an equivalent FMIC

2) go with maestro software which can be custom tuned to your needs and includes things like data loggers, launch control, and no lift shift

3) w/m injection will be one of the best investments you can make
water meth injection @ usrt

4)for your goals the integrated engineering intake manifold will be better suited

5)you will need a 3 inch catback with w/e kit you buy

6) make sure your car is in good mechanical condition before you start start upgrading, a tune up and possibly a mild overhaul will be needed, you will definitely need new rods

7) a gtx/gt 3071,3076 or equivalent will be good turbos for your needs

8) build your head with the valvetrain capable of 8k-9k rpms will let you get more out of your turbo

9) a 2k clutch( with labor isnt neccesary) a decent shop can install a clutch for 300-400$ and a good clutch for your needs will be 700-1000$

10) a good set of tires will go a long way to improve your 1/4 mile times

11) weight- there a subtle ways to remove 200+lbs w/o alot of money or hacking up your car


w/e you do expect to spend at least 1-2k more then your initial $ figure because there are always unforeseen expenses and parts

if you have any more questions feel free to pm me


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## wrestler4life521 (Aug 12, 2010)

^^ Best advice yet. All my buddies that have done BT builds always end up going about 1/4 to 1/3 over their original budget. It's the small things that come up along the way that eventually accumulate to a large number.


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## roadking90 (Feb 13, 2012)

thanks babarber. 

I am planning on getting the Eurodyne Boost controler plus /w meth intection

Maestro is the only software I will settle with.

I havent looked at the IE Intake Manifold but I will check it out.

I like the Garrett turbo but might go Persision.

I'm going to do a custom 3" cat back without cats.

Im going IE rods and calico coated berrings.

Id like to get ahold of an AEB head, but dont know how much it will cost, buying the head and rebuilding it.

The clutch is southbend stage 3 endurance with flywheel, together its about $1300.

Going Sumotomo tires.


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## babarber (Nov 3, 2008)

you can save money by sticking with the oem flywheel you wont be needing a lightweight aluminum flywheel for drag racing

i would consider putting rings in while you got the engine apart(depending on your engine miles and condition)

intake manifold doesnt have to be part of the original build although nice and does add power its not necessary for your goals, maybe something you can add later

aeb heads are great and have several benefits but they are not necessary the fastest 1.8t i know uses a small port head if your set on getting one though they can be found for about 500$

for valve train you might need inconel exhaust valve and you will definitely need springs/retainers
head rebuild will cost you somewhere between 1k-2k(including labor) depending on what you want, if you want cams( i would suggest at leats the ie intake cam)
add another 500(aprox) if you want aeb


as far as precision turbos. i personally have never used them but i have heard plenty of horror stories with them. but like i said i have no first hand experiences


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## cruzanstx (Oct 10, 2011)

What ever came of this op?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## 02TTQuattro (Feb 21, 2013)

This is roadking90 I forgot my password and had to create a new account. I am thinking about going GTX2867r, ATP manifold, custom FMIC, custom DP, 3" exhaust, maestro 7, rods, head bolts and keep my clutch till I burn it up (just replaced with stock clutch and flywheel this summer like an idiot)


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

roadking90 said:


> Well like i said, plans changed. A little bit more money has come into the budget so I can do bout $11000 now, but not much more.




Here you go: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...turbo-PTE-5857-with-lots-of-extras&p=82699730


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## 02TTQuattro (Feb 21, 2013)

I wish an $11,000 budget was still the case. If so I would be all over that. Right now I'm looking at about $4000 max for turbo kit. Have more for rods which I will but in myself to cut cost. I am in the process of removing my head to replace blown head gasket, so I said while I'm in there might as well do the works. Removing a lot of stuff to make room and money for big turbo, drop in rods, custom coolant system, gaskets and head bolts.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

Your going to also need a clutch in there as well. Talk with Doug, he can fill you in on how much the actual cost really is. 6-10k is about normal. 4k really won't get you to far with a BT setup unless you can build a lot of it on your own.


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