# Timing chain issue...



## Schwarz_Jetta (Jul 31, 2011)

Hey guys! I've been doing some reading around in this forum and it seems that the earlier model 2.5l engines, specifically from 2005-2006, had issues with the timing chain! I was wondering if these issues carried on into the 2007+ years? or does this timing chain issue relate more to engine code BGP or BGQ? If theres anyone that can firm this up for me i would greatly appreciate it! My 2007 MKV is nearing 100,000kms (60,000mi) and i realized that the timing chain failure came about around this mileage frame. Thanks in advance for any input:beer:


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## rags2riches (Jan 2, 2010)

Does your car have the 150HP or 170HP engine? In early 2007 they used the older engines with the timing chain issue. Late 2007 models got the revised engine which does not have the timing chain issue. Basically they used some cheap plastic parts where aircraft grade aluminum was needed. The guides and tensioners wear out and break and then flop around in the whole timing case. These broken parts allow the chain to stretch and eventually jump a tooth or two on the cam gears which throws off your cam and valve timing. If that happens you run the risk of the chain breaking which would basically ruin the engine. It could be rebuilt but would cost you more than just buying a new one. If you changed your oil every 3,000 miles instead of every 10,000 ,like VW suggests, you should be ok even if you do have the trouble engine group. If you do have the BGP engine then I would suggest having the chain and tesioners and guides replaced before you hit 100K miles. It might cost you about a grand or maybe 700 or so if you know a guy but like I said it sure beats paying 5000 to get the engine replaced. I have a 2009 and still change my oil every 3500 miles. Just makes sense. The oil still looks new when I change it and that is good. No friction breakdown and most likely no metal flaking in the oil.


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## Schwarz_Jetta (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks for the reply Rags! If i'm not mistaken i believe my 2.5l has a BGP engine code which means that it has the 150hp motor in it. I agree with you completely on maintaining your oil change interval, definately important! I will definately consider your advice on replacing the timing chain and relative components, your right about the taking the 1000.00 hit now rather than a 5000.00 hit later!


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## markfif (Oct 25, 2007)

I have an early '07 2.5L and I just hit 104,000 miles. No timing chain issues or noises as of yet (knock on wood). I do synthetic oil changes every 5000 miles and just basic maintenance. My transmission slips every once in a while but the motor has been strong. :thumbdown: to the dealer for saying I should not change my tranny fluid the multiple times I asked them about it.


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## Rabbit_2.5 (Mar 6, 2009)

I also have a BGP engine thats just about to turn 70,000. At idle it sounds like something is flapping/rattling around... I'm worried this might be the issue. It's CPO under warranty until 74,000, does anyone think the dealer would cover this under warranty?


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## rags2riches (Jan 2, 2010)

Schwarz_Jetta said:


> Thanks for the reply Rags! If i'm not mistaken i believe my 2.5l has a BGP engine code which means that it has the 150hp motor in it. I agree with you completely on maintaining your oil change interval, definately important! I will definately consider your advice on replacing the timing chain and relative components, your right about the taking the 1000.00 hit now rather than a 5000.00 hit later!


If you have a 2007 then it is most likely almost or completely paid off. Right? If you got a few months left to pay then just finish the payments and don't worry about the timing chain. Then trade it in on a GTI. The newest model year of GTI is using an engine that has already had the bugs worked out of it. Example. The early TSI and FSI engines had PCV problems. The aftermarket immediately came up with a delete kit that basically fixed the engine. A few years later VW just did away with the PCV system themselves and now you don't have to. Several other examples like that exist. You could probably get 8000 to 10000 dollars on a trade in depending on your options, transmission type, and condition with about 70k miles. That would leave you owing just about as much as you owed on the Rabbit right when you got it. So you could probably keep making about the same payments. Just my $.02


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## Schwarz_Jetta (Jul 31, 2011)

Markfif + rabbit, hey guys as a fellow 2.5l bgp owner i definately can relate with your worries, but in all honesty for the amount of 2.5l mkv's sold between 2005-2007 compared to the amount of vortex members that have experienced the timing chain failure our odds are pretty good! i think i've only seen maybe 3 or 4 members encounter this issue, but regardless its pretty hard not to think about, but who knows maybe we might be the lucky one's that'll hopefully never go through this lol

Rags - if the engine does go, i'm sure i can find a low mileage gti/gli motor+tranny i can salvage, rebuild and swap hehehe


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

Schwarz_Jetta said:


> Markfif + rabbit, hey guys as a fellow 2.5l bgp owner i definately can relate with your worries, but in all honesty for the amount of 2.5l mkv's sold between 2005-2007 compared to the amount of vortex members that have experienced the timing chain failure our odds are pretty good! i think i've only seen maybe 3 or 4 members encounter this issue, but regardless its pretty hard not to think about, but who knows maybe we might be the lucky one's that'll hopefully never go through this lol
> 
> Rags - if the engine does go, i'm sure i can find a low mileage gti/gli motor+tranny i can salvage, rebuild and swap hehehe


This is how I look at it, except with a 2.0T diesel.


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## rags2riches (Jan 2, 2010)

Schwarz_Jetta said:


> Markfif + rabbit, hey guys as a fellow 2.5l bgp owner i definately can relate with your worries, but in all honesty for the amount of 2.5l mkv's sold between 2005-2007 compared to the amount of vortex members that have experienced the timing chain failure our odds are pretty good!


It sounds like both of these guys are doing regular oil changes so they will prolly be good. If left to the VW quoted 10K mile oil changes it is much more likely. 
I think Markfif asked about a noise. How is your car idling? If it is a loud clicking or ticking noise that changes with idle speed you might have a broken guide bouncing around in their. You should take it to the dealership or local shop to get a second opinion. If it is found to be a broken guide or tensioner they will definitely do the work under warranty. As long as you are still withing the agreements and time/mileage constraints. If you got a bunch of aftermarket parts and a reflash they might not want to do the work. Depends from dealer to dealer.


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

Kinda wishing I would have updated these parts while replacing a cracked lower timing cover on my bgp

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G Shift using Tapatalk


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

In my opinion, oil changes have little to do with an engineering issue... Sure oil changes are great and all, but what makes things like the chain to hop skip and jump is really dependant on how the owner treats the car...if you beat on the motor everyday, you'll have a greater risk of having problems...
If for any reason you do make that motor go boom! Then its easier to find a low mile replacement from an 08 car...thats what I would do... 

I do think that good maintenance will help, but it really isn't the oil thats preventing the problem...its just a bum set up from the beginning...


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## Geo (Nov 14, 2000)

anyone have a good source for a new timing chain kit with new guides and tensioner?


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Geo said:


> anyone have a good source for a new timing chain kit with new guides and tensioner?


 Even the bentley manual doesn't cover the timing chain replacement...its nothing like any other vw apparently...its better to let a pro tackle that fix


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## Geo (Nov 14, 2000)

TylerO28 said:


> Even the bentley manual doesn't cover the timing chain replacement...its nothing like any other vw apparently...its better to let a pro tackle that fix


 

I'll take that as "no, there is not a kit"  :thumbup:


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## HIBB 304 (Nov 8, 2008)

Try dbcperforance.com,they can help. Great people,prices,and shipping is fast.


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## scorch07 (May 17, 2011)

Does anyone know where BGQ engines fall into this? It's still a 150 but it's not a BGP... exactly...


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## Schwarz_Jetta (Jul 31, 2011)

Geo! 

ecs has timing chain kit available for the 2.5l, only thing is finding a mechanic who knows/experienced enough with the 2.5 set up

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.5/Engine/Timing/ES2207809/

thats the link!:beer:


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## Schwarz_Jetta (Jul 31, 2011)

Scorch07

I think the timing chain issues are limited only to the BGP motors, i think the problem was rectified in the BGQ motors, however don't quote me on this cause my opinion is based off of information I collected while reading up on this potentially catastrophic issue.


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## BIGGREEK (Feb 15, 2009)

122k miles 2008 CBTA, starting to hear chain slap..... No running issue (yet), i beat the living **** out of it every day, change the oil every 7500 miles with 0-w30..had it since June 2008 w/10k miles on it...LOVE IT.

and that ECS kit is expensive, you can get the COMPLETE kit from VW with everything from the ecs kit for 386....

620ish for everything above, both sprockets, and IM gear.


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## SH63187 (Apr 16, 2012)

*Timing Chain*

I have a 2007 Rabbit with 83,000 kilometers. I put my car in this morning for it's 80,000k tune up to be surprised with the fact that I need my timing chain replaced. I'm lucky it's covered under my powertrain warranty but if I had left it a couple more months I would have had to pay $3000 to have it replaced. I had to replace my brake pads and routers at 40,000k and I've also had the unfortunate experience of having 3 of my 5 cylinder sensors, 2 under warrant and one without. I opted to replace the remaining two as I figure they were going to go. I love my little car but I think I might have bought a car that was built on a Friday afternoon before a long weekend and everyone was in a hurry to leave the factory floor!


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