# 2.0T FSI and Brad Penn Oil



## thethirdjq (Apr 7, 2009)

I was talking to the mechanic I work with about upgrading the oil I use. Currently I am using the PO and dealer provided Castrol Syntec 5w-40. So, he says the best oil he has experience with is Brad Penn Oil. After doing some research, it sounds great for an older engine or a race engine. What do you guys think about running it in a 2006 Audi A3 that I am not planning to track?
Thanks for your help.


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## rickjaguar (Apr 23, 2009)

*Re: 2.0T FSI and Brad Penn Oil (thethirdjq)*

I don't think that's on the VW 502 00 list. Maybe that doesn't really matter to you but it will if you ever have some kind of engine failure that might be under warranty.
There's a handful of good European-made oils out there. 
IMO most anything is better than Castrol!


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## thethirdjq (Apr 7, 2009)

im outside of warranty and noticed royal purple and redline isn't on the list. I might try the green for the rest of the year per my mechanic's recommendation, but ideally I think I will go with motul once I can start changing my own oil (apartment prevents this)


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## rickjaguar (Apr 23, 2009)

*Re: (thethirdjq)*

Redline gets a lot of +ve reviews, regardless of not being 502 00 spec.
Motul is a good choice.


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## WGermany (Jun 12, 2009)

*Re: (rickjaguar)*

Brad Penn Oils are excellent high performance racing lubes from Pennsylvania. They make a partial synthetic 0w30,10w30 and 20w50 that might be fine for your VW. I'm almost certain that they DON'T have vw 502 specs.... so beware. They can be reached at 813-368-1200 http://www.bradpennracing.com


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## thethirdjq (Apr 7, 2009)

I emailed Brad Penn and Gary Cornell was nice enough to reply to me. He is also looking into 502 specifics. I have attached the contents of the email below if anyone is interested.
The Penn Grade 1® oil is made for the racing and high-performance (modified, classic, street rod, muscle car, etc.) market. It is not the appropriate oil for newer vehicles that have specific requirements for the lubricating oils, including limits on certain types of additives. Most of the gasoline powered vehicles sold in the US in the past decade require either API SL or SM (which superseded SL), as indicated by in the API “donut” on the back label, and should also be licensed to the latest ILSAC specifications, as indicated by the “Starburst” – which states “for gasoline engines” – on the front of the bottle. The Penn Grade 1® oil is not licensed to API or ILSAC specifications, nor is it formulated to meet those specifications. 

For modern passenger cars, our Brad Penn® Superior Fuel Efficient Motor Oil comes in SAE 10W-30, and is formulated, blended, and licensed to meet the latest API SM /ILSAC GF-4 requirements. However, there are several special cases, particularly with some of the German manufacturers, where an API – spec product is not specified; rather the manufacturer has set its own standards. This appears to be the case with the FSI engine, which as you pointed out requires a VW specification oil. We make no claims on our product data sheet or marketing materials for the VW specification. 

You might also want to check the required viscosity – I would think that VW is asking for 0W-XX or 5W-XX oils –without knowing your model year, I can’t be any more specific.

I will check with our technical service department on whether we have anything in the works for the VW 502 specs. Please don’t hesitate to call me or e-mail me directly if you have any questions.


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## WGermany (Jun 12, 2009)

*Re: (thethirdjq)*

The Brad Penn people are top notch indeed. If they do have a VW spec oil out in the works, I would definitely consider it. BTW, I visited Bradford, PA awhile back and saw the refinery where Brad Penn is made. Cool Thing!!


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## USCG_DUB (Feb 23, 2008)

I Know this is a old thread but I was wondering there was anything concluded on this subject?


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

A guy at Bob's DID run BP 10w-30 (iirc) in a 2.0T FSI and got one of the best results ever seen. I'll look up the specifics later.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

Here's the VOA...

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/attachme...oils-e07472.pdf

and comments...

http://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1834641#Post1834641


and the UOA in a 2.0T FSI...










and the comments....

http://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1745775


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

lol, no VW specs. 


and it's thin. 

almost a 20 weight.


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

i don't know if i would make the switch based on the experience documented in this thread: 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4805587-Observations-on-using-Brad-Penn-10w40

I love red line, search for my UOAs... i've tried most of the top teir vw502 approved oils in the FSI (Motul xcess, motul specific, total energy), and they don't even come close to touching red line with regards to longevity / performance. i have not seen one bad UOA for it yet, so its consistently outperforming. if warrenty is no longer an issue, then i say go for it. mix in a qt of w50 red line race to boost the ZDDP levels too...


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

rhouse181 said:


> i don't know if i would make the switch based on the experience documented in this thread:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4805587-Observations-on-using-Brad-Penn-10w40
> 
> I love red line, search for my UOAs... i've tried most of the top teir vw502 approved oils in the FSI (Motul xcess, motul specific, total energy), and they don't even come close to touching red line with regards to longevity / performance. i have not seen one bad UOA for it yet, so its consistently outperforming. if warrenty is no longer an issue, then i say go for it. mix in a qt of w50 red line race to boost the ZDDP levels too...


Im trying the new x-cess C3 made specific for DI engines will see how well it does on a freshened up motor just changed the oil this weekend Ill drop it @ 3K and send it in for UOA.  Bob.G

FYI 

If you want extra protection you can also get a bottle of "GM upper valve train lube" at any GM parts counter add 1/2 bottle to boost the ZDDP levels old porsche guys have been using it for years.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

I'm confused about this whole "made for DI engines" thing because I see no references to it in the product description and the specs are not current for the Euro market...

Motul 8100 5W40 X-Clean C3 Synthetic Oil - 502 00, 505 00 - LL04 - 229.31 - Porsche, 1L (1.05 qt.)

The Motul 8100 Series is a 100% synthetic engine oil that has been formulated, developed and tested according to the most recent technical requirements of petrol and diesel engines. MOTUL 8100 has synthetic base stocks and specific friction modifier molecules that provide an outstanding oil film resistance, reducing friction in the engine, maintaining the oil pressure, and generally decreasing the operating temperature. 8100 provides outstanding lubricating properties such as wear and high temperature resistance and controlled oil consumption. Anti-oxydation, Anti-wear, Anti-corrosion, Anti-foam properties.

MANUFACTURER APPROVAL:
- LL-04 BMW
- 229.51 / 229.31 Mercedes Benz
- 502 00 / 505 00 / 505 01 Volks Wagon
- Porsche
- M2C 917A Ford
- RN0710 - 0700 Renault

This can be a good thing since the newest VW 504/507 oils do not seem to react well with our high sulphur fuels in the USA. I hope it's worth $50 /5ltr. You can order 6q Pennzoil 5w-40 Ultra Euro (Helix) for $50 free shipping direct from Pennzoil.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

rhouse181 said:


> i don't know if i would make the switch based on the experience documented in this thread:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4805587-Observations-on-using-Brad-Penn-10w40
> 
> I love red line, search for my UOAs... i've tried most of the top teir vw502 approved oils in the FSI (Motul xcess, motul specific, total energy), and they don't even come close to touching red line with regards to longevity / performance. i have not seen one bad UOA for it yet, so its consistently outperforming. if warrenty is no longer an issue, then i say go for it. mix in a qt of w50 red line race to boost the ZDDP levels too...


Here's a longer Redline 5w-40 UOA. Weird to see they removed the moly...











Here's saaber1's Redline UOAs...


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

AudiSportA4 said:


> Weird to see they removed the moly...


That's why you add a quart of race...


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

A quart of race would need 1100ppm Mo to raise the overall dilution from 0 to 250ppm. Maybe some old quarts of 5w-40 were mixed in?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

Rhouses's UOA is a really valuable learning tool because it shows, side-by-side, high-end 502 oil UOAs next to an ester-based oil UOA. The zinc and phosphorus levels (ZDDP) is much higher in the redline. Iron per 1000 miles is much better. Viscosity retention and flashpoint are much better also. 

Also it's interesting to note the moly levels seen in this UOA (250ppm) vs. the normal 600+ppm normally seen in redline's 5w30, 0w40, 10w40, etc. As Rhouse said, this is due to the addition of race oil. At these lower moly levels, it may be acting more as an anti-oxidant -that is a good thing- and not as a friction modifier as usually intended (very high levels of moly are needed to act as a friction modifier in an ester-based oil). Also if we had TBN and TAN numbers, the TAN may be lower and TBN higher due to less sulphur containing additives (just a guess though as there is no TBN/TAN shown on Rhouse's UOA). My results showed slightly higher TBN and lower TAN in the no-moly formulas of redline vs. the with-moly formulas, It may be that the no-moly, or possibly low-moly, may last slightly longer than the high-moly formulations. It would be interesting to see straight redline 5w40 in Rhouse's engine for a direct comparison to the race oil addition.


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

AudiSportA4 said:


> A quart of race would need 1100ppm Mo to raise the overall dilution from 0 to 250ppm. Maybe some old quarts of 5w-40 were mixed in?


you sound surprised? All the 5w40 came from the same 1 gallon container... try searching for a VOA of the red line race, think you will be surprised at the levels of moly they thrown in there... 



saaber2 said:


> It would be interesting to see straight redline 5w40 in Rhouse's engine for a direct comparison to the race oil addition.


now why would you want to ruin a good thing  just sent my last fill of 4 qts 5w40 and 1 qt w50 race to Blackstone, should have the results back the beginning of next week. The w50 reduced my consumption by 50%, down from 1/2 qt every 5k to 1/4 qt every 5k... i think that is liveable :thumbup:


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