# Negatives of spacers?



## mpitfield (Dec 28, 2007)

Investigating making the stance of my car a little wider/aggressive, but subtle and not wanting to change out the existing factory 18" Huffs...and spare me the "I hate Huffs".
My knowledge on this topic is limited at best so excuse my ignorance, but will spacers accomplish this? If so what if any are the negatives of spacers, keep in mind I'm looking for a subtle mod so the potential spacer would be thin!
Also assuming your answers are positive I would be interested in hearing your opinions/recommendations etc. as to which brand size etc. spacers?
As usual, thanks for all of your input...this forum has been a wealth of knowledge!


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## blackflygti (Sep 19, 2001)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (mpitfield)*

Don't forget you'll need longer wheel bolts to go with the spacers. So factor in the cost for all the bolts.
Also, you'll want hubcentric spacers if you're concerned about maintaining factory wheel mounting.


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## JDriver1.8t (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (blackflygti)*

Just look at ECS and H&R. They both make high quality spacers, and as long as you don't go over 15mm or so, there aren't any drawbacks. Just make you get longer lugs, with the proper seat.


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## mpitfield (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (blackflygti)*

Thanks blackflygti,
Do you have a manufacturer that you would recommend, I did a little research into H&R, just happened to be the first hit I clicked on in Google, and noticed there were a few different options:
DR = Wheel Spacer (for 10 – 40 mm track widening): The wheel spacer is fitted between the wheel and hub, using longer wheel bolts or Quicksafe-bolts (please order separately).
DRS = Wheel Spacer with new longer studs (supplied): The wheel spacer is fitted between the wheel and the hub, exchanging the existing wheel studs for longer ones. The wheels are then fitted to the hub/spacer with the existing wheel-nuts.
DRM = Wheel Spacer/Adapter : This is fitted to the hub with special nuts and it carries new wheel studs for the existing wheel-nuts.


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## mpitfield (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (JDriver1.8t)*

Ideally it would be great if a forum member had an 07 GLI with Huffs and could share their spacer experiences and pics.
Right now I have my snows on so it's had for me to judge what the space between the fender and tire is? But with my snows, and just eyeballing it, if I were to bring them flush I would be looking at about a 10mm spacer.


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## mpitfield (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (blackflygti)*

Just took a pic of my drivers rear winter rim and tire, they are 17" 225 45 winters, does anyone know if they mount similarly to my factory 18" 225 40 summer Huffs...I believe it's referred to as offset?








I also measured the distance from my outer rim/tire to the inside of my fender and there's at least 15mm. Basically I am trying to determine which rims will be wider on the car winters or summers and then select spacers based on this.
If anyone has a better idea on how to best accomplish this please let me know?










_Modified by mpitfield at 1:39 AM 2-3-2008_


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## mpitfield (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: (erevlydeux)*


_Quote, originally posted by *erevlydeux* »_EDIT: I forgot to mention, if you're using spacers to adapt to a higher offset wheel, not not simply pushing out your offset, then your scrub radius won't be affected._Modified by erevlydeux at 1:14 AM 2-3-2008_

Hey erevlydeux,
Can you explain the above quote a bit more, me a little slow on this stuff!
Thanks for the information, I was thinking there had to be at least one potential negative aspect to this type of mod, but like you say in my, moderate, case the effect should be minimal. Does this type of mod put more stress on any of the steering/suspension/wheel/etc. components? If so I wonder how VW views this mod, when it comes to warranty issues?
Based on what I have read so far I'm thinking about 12mm or 15mm spacers should bring my tires just about flush with the fenders.


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## blackflygti (Sep 19, 2001)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (JDriver1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JDriver1.8t* »_Just look at ECS and H&R. They both make high quality spacers

Good point. Cheap quality spacers may not be balanced properly and will end up vibrating.


_Quote, originally posted by *erevlydeux* »_The further the distance, the more it acts as a lever, and increases the force you need to apply to turn the wheel.

Wouldn't the wider track *decrease* the effort to turn the wheels?
Longer lever = less effort
A few years ago i ran a wider track on my mk2 golf with manual steering and noticed steering effort was lighter. However, it was more prone to following ruts in the road.


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## ----VRTEGO---- (Feb 4, 2008)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (erevlydeux)*

Who are these people who have lost control of the car? This is a totally new issue to me.
Personally speaking, I have 15mm rear spacers on one car and the rear is now much less skittish in all circumstances. There is a little more understeer on initial turn-in, but that is the the only negative effect on handling. In all other circumstances the car is more controllable and stable.
Putting large front spacers on and leaving the rear track stock made for a nimble but unstable car. I can see somebody losing control in that situation, but nobody I know would be that


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## James Himself (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (----VRTEGO----)*

spacers are hard on your wheel bearings. theyll go bad faster than normal.


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## mpitfield (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (sum1namedjames)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sum1namedjames* »_spacers are hard on your wheel bearings. theyll go bad faster than normal.

Can you be more specific as to the reason why, is it due to the wheel being further away from the bearing so there's like a leverage effect?


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## mpitfield (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (erevlydeux)*


_Quote, originally posted by *erevlydeux* »_
Just accidents I've heard about through friends, reading online, mostly street stuff.
Rear spacers are different, though. They don't turn. They have nothing to do with scrub radius. Even if you have spacers on the front and rear, though, you're still increasing the scrub radius, which is going to increase steering force (feedback). It's bad juju, period, and a google search on the term will reveal to you many links that assert the same thing.









I took your advice and did a quick Google, not that everything that you read on the net is the gospel but there's obviously a potential negative effect of wheel spacers. Below is one of the first of many links on the scrub radius.
http://books.google.com/books?...ovj_4


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## reflex18tip (Jun 9, 2006)

the bearing part is true. i had learned that long ago from my RWD vehicles, but that accidents from spacers thing... i don't know about that one. sound more like an excuse for bad driving.


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## reflex18tip (Jun 9, 2006)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (erevlydeux)*

It's D-I-S-T-U-R-B

_Quote, originally posted by *erevlydeux* »_
Just accidents I've heard about through friends, reading online, mostly street stuff.


Ya, I thought so. No real data, huh? Lets not scare folks away from good products with your hyperbole.
...feel free to add links to said stories...


_Modified by reflex18tip at 12:13 PM 2-5-2008_


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## James Himself (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (mpitfield)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mpitfield* »_
Can you be more specific as to the reason why, is it due to the wheel being further away from the bearing so there's like a leverage effect?

exactly.


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## mpitfield (Dec 28, 2007)

*Negatives of spacers...Update!*

Update!
It seems there are good points as well as bad points at the extreme of doing a mod like this. From other groups/threads I have read on this subject, there are also potential legal, warranty, and insurance issues, but from what I understand pretty much any after market mod affects these as well.
In my case I'm not a young guy with a car that looks modded, all my mods are very subtle so I'm not likely to attract any unwanted attention. So I have decided to go with H&R 5mm fronts and 10mm rears with H&R appropriate replacement bolts.
For those MK5 GLI owners with the same configuration, wondering the same question, what size...I will post before and after profile shots of the tires in relation to the body.
Thanks for all of your advice and opinions, as usual very informative and recently amusing.


_Modified by mpitfield at 4:09 PM 2-5-2008_


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## reflex18tip (Jun 9, 2006)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (erevlydeux)*


_Quote, originally posted by *erevlydeux* »_
yet you have not shown us any scientific evidence to the contrary of my posts here. We've all seen people that ask for proof, only to back peddle and say "well it could or couldn't be" when they themselves are asked to provide something.


http://www.performancealloys.c...s.asp
H&R TRAK+ wheel spacers move the wheel out from the hub, effectively widening the stance of the vehicle and lowering its roll centre. This simple modification increases lateral stability, which in turn provides improved handling, greater safety and of course, the sleek style you’ve been looking for. Depending on vehicle make and model they are available for most domestic and imported automobiles. 
Wheel spacers are also used when a cars such as: Mitsubitsu 3000GT / GTO, Peugeot 406's or some Alfa Romeo's (to name a few) have upgraded brakes, and want to fit aftermarket alloy wheels on, but the larger brake callipers prevents this by coming into contact with the alloy wheel. Other customers of ours needs wheel spacers when they have used brake upgrade kits such as Brembo products. As our fully trained staff deal with such issues on a day to day basis we have unique expert knowledge in this area, unlike other companies who sell wheel spacers. Make sure you deal with a professional knowledgeable company when purchasing alloy wheel spacers


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## reflex18tip (Jun 9, 2006)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (erevlydeux)*

Dude, scrub is a far cry from "People have lost control" or "Just accidents I've heard about". The issuse is the negatives of spacers and I don't see how potholes relate. Anyone could loose control regardless if they have 6mm extra offset or not. I've run spacers on my '76 Blazer for years. I roll 37s I've got spacers on both my Jettas and I track. I've never had a problem. So uses them or don't. Just don't sue the manufacturers just because you can't drive.


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## mpitfield (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (reflex18tip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *reflex18tip* »_Sarcasm is just another free service I offer.


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## mpitfield (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (reflex18tip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *reflex18tip* »_Dude, scrub is a far cry from "People have lost control" or "Just accidents I've heard about". The issuse is the negatives of spacers and I don't see how potholes relate. Anyone could loose control regardless if they have 6mm extra offset or not. I've run spacers on my '76 Blazer for years. I roll 37s I've got spacers on both my Jettas and I track. I've never had a problem. So uses them or don't. Just don't sue the manufacturers just because you can't drive. 

For someone like myself, who isn't very knowledgeable on this topic, this is exactly the type of feedback I was looking for! Marginal or not, whether it will play a role in my world or not, I'm glad that this thread has brought out these details; so bring on the scrub, bearing stress, etc.


_Modified by mpitfield at 2:40 PM 2-8-2008_


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## reflex18tip (Jun 9, 2006)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (mpitfield)*

I'm sure erevlydeux would agree. Reguardless of our banter, we're glad to be of help.


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## mpitfield (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (erevlydeux)*

I have noticed that pretty much any stock car, whether it's a performance car or everyday entry level driver, that the rims/rubber are always below flush with the fenders?
It's too common not to be an indicator that the manufacturers have done this for another reason, possible aerodynamics, road debris getting picked up from the tires?
There has to be more to this than scrub radius or more stress on steering components, hub, bearings, etc?


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (reflex18tip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *reflex18tip* »_Dude, scrub is a far cry from "People have lost control" or "Just accidents I've heard about". The issuse is the negatives of spacers and I don't see how potholes relate. Anyone could loose control regardless if they have 6mm extra offset or not. I've run spacers on my '76 Blazer for years. I roll 37s I've got spacers on both my Jettas and I track. I've never had a problem. So uses them or don't. Just don't sue the manufacturers just because you can't drive. 

agreed.
spacers dont alter your driveability...
and to feed more on whats said above, whether your wheels have a high or low offset, *YOU* are in control of your car, your car doesnt control itself. 
I've been running spacers for about 3 years, and i have yet to see any problems. they work just fine, as long as you have the proper equipment to use them correctly, you will be fine.


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## callum (Jan 10, 2008)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (mpitfield)*

Just in reply to mpitfield's thoughts;
I heard someone on speed channel say that having your wheels tucked inside your fenders a tad creates a low pressure zone, which in turn sucks in air to cool off your brakes more effectively. Just what someone said on a Speed show I was watching though, sounds about right though.


_Modified by callum at 9:04 PM 2-22-2008_


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## mpitfield (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: Negatives of spacers? (callum)*


_Quote, originally posted by *callum* »_Just in reply to mpitfield's thoughts;
I heard someone on speed channel say that having your wheels tucked inside your fenders a tad creates a low pressure zone, which in turn sucks in air to cool off your brakes more effectively. Just what someone said on a Speed show I was watching though, sounds about right though.

Hey Callum, thanks for the thoughts! Sounds like there could be many subtle effects in regards to the aerodynamics a mod like this can have, not only on the drag but as you pointed out possibly cooling etc.?
Making me reconsider my desire for spacers, just for looks!


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## DowntownVDub (Jul 15, 2006)

*Re: (erevlydeux)*

I have 10mm spacers all the way around my MkV GTI with hufs. No matter what I do I am getting vibrations from only the front with the spacers.
Tires have been balanced.
Car has been aligned.
Lugs have been re-torqued
Smooth ride with the spacers removed.
Smooth ride with spacers just on the back.
The spacers are hub centric.
Swapped around the spaces - the spacers are good.
Anyone have any suggestions now?


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