# Project ABE (AEB+ABA) - 110 HP/L



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*A little eye candy for the masses.*

Phone camera shot. 








Spec - 12:1 compression ratio, 2618 alloy forged JE piston.
This will all end up on a 4 door.



_Modified by WolfGTI at 4:13 PM 12-1-2006_


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## 7thGear (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

ooooooooo


_Modified by 7thGear at 11:38 AM 4-27-2006_


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Uh-oh.....looks like someone got bored with their engine already!


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

Already ??? The car is 8 years old - lol time for some fresh air







.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

I apologize again for the delay in these!
They should of shipped out early, but after they were made they sent them off to the engineering department at JE to confirm that they wouldn't smack into valves...








...resembles another set I know of...


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I apologize again for the delay in these!
They should of shipped out early, but after they were made they sent them off to the engineering department at JE to confirm that they wouldn't smack into valves...








...resembles another set I know of...









Steve - I am not in the least bit pissed - better to find out that now than later. Yes they do resemble your pistons, which is not a bad thing.


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## Maverik869 (Jan 3, 2003)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

ohhh now i see whats going on here... forget about turbo... na is w here it is at!


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Maverik869)*

Oh no, it looks like Travis and I have a new rival.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Oh no, it looks like Travis and I have a new rival.









New rival?? - lol I've been in this game for a while.


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## 94jetta~~ (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Oh baby, they look sick http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Oh no, it looks like Travis and I have a new rival.









Rival??? Ya, my bucket of bolts ain't got nothing on Mendra's Wolfie.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
New rival?? - lol I've been in this game for a while.










You've been awful quiet for a while as well... Nice bling, and like everything that's polished should be, it's inside the engine. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (ABF Jeff)*

should have went 13.5:1 for the win baby!


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_You've been awful quiet for a while as well... Nice bling, and like everything that's polished should be, it's inside the engine. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I don't generally make too much noise, more pics to come this weekend.


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_should have went 13.5:1 for the win baby!

13.5:1 is not streetable, this is a daily driven motor.



_Modified by WolfGTI at 11:49 AM 4-29-2006_


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## bajan01 (Nov 26, 2001)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_...this is a daily driven motor.


Let me know how those pistons work out


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (bajan01)*

Sure looks like it may have more than 8 valves, just judging by the pistons.


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Sure looks like it may have more than 8 valves, just judging by the pistons.


but it's a 2.0....soooo?
Mendra's Cousins:
















the tech specs:...on both i suppose
JE FSR Forgings - Lightweight Piston matched with a lightweight wristpin...
They cost a pretty penny...but weigh 3/4 the weight of a stock piston/pin...so basically a 4cyl...weighs in at what a 3cyl would be
Teflon coated skirts reduce wear/drag
Independant QC on my behalf showed that the JE pistons/pins weighted in within +/-0.1 gram of each other


_Modified by [email protected] at 1:10 AM 4-30-2006_


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## Woogoo (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (PBWB)*

wanna see 13.5:1 here we go:
















I buy them from Jose at porttuning last year but I never use them .. I want to built a racing 8v engine for rallying but the class spec change and now we not allowed to use racing fuel. they just sleeping in my closet waiting to be used ( I don't know when)
They are Wiseco Custom 83.5mm 13,5:1 CR for ABA block.
I already installed them in a block before canceling the project and DAMM this is Really flat top! If i remember i had only something like .030 between the block and the piston!


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Let's keep this civil and clean.
This is my buildup, I am choosing to go all motor because I like the linear response, throttle response and smooth powerband of all motor motors. I have nothing against monster turbo cars, it's just not my choice of motor.
thanks
Mendra

First of all the designers -








Followed by the models
*Kent Camshafts - 293 dur 9.65mm lift Intake / 295 dur 11.3mm Exhaust *








*JE Forged FSR 2618 alloy piston, 12:1 compression*
























*Arrow Precision connecting rods, balanced set to less than 1g difference.*









and finally a group shot


























_Modified by WolfGTI at 11:48 AM 9-28-2006_


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## 7thGear (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

no offence, but if your too lazy to resize the damn pics, at the very least take ones that are not blurry!








otherwise, http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (7thGear)*

Lol - sorry I didn't realise they were blurry until I uploaded them


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## Maverik869 (Jan 3, 2003)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

where is the pic of the head this is all going to?


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Maverik869)*

The head is at the shop - not decorating my car parts shelf in the basement like all the rest of this stuff is. =


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## djpj06 (Jul 12, 2005)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

is the head a 20v???


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (djpj06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *djpj06* »_is the head a 20v???









Yes it is.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Arrow Precision connecting rods...

I hope those rods weigh next to nothing.
What did you finally decide on for bore size?


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## 7thGear (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

just looked at the Arrow website
800 ENGLISH POUNDS FOR A SET OF STEEL RODS
i cant even imagine what the custom titanium ones set you back..
man dude, you a balla


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_I hope those rods weigh next to nothing.
What did you finally decide on for bore size?

For bore size I decided to go 83mm - because its a street motor not an all out drag machine like your motor. The rods are pretty damn light Billy.

_Quote, originally posted by *7thGear* »_just looked at the Arrow website
800 ENGLISH POUNDS FOR A SET OF STEEL RODS
i cant even imagine what the custom titanium ones set you back..
man dude, you a balla

Please don't get confused, my rods are their forged steel rods with some additional lightening, their custom titanium rods cost $995/rod (yes I asked). I couldn't justify $4000 in rods for a street motor- maybe someday but not yet.


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## 7thGear (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

did you custom order the steel rods? how much was your set if its not a secret?


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (7thGear)*


_Quote, originally posted by *7thGear* »_did you custom order the steel rods? how much was your set if its not a secret?

No real secrets, this forum is to share technical knowledge. The rod set came in at a hair under $1400. 


_Modified by WolfGTI at 2:16 PM 5-1-2006_


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## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*









whew!! thats crazy!! so when does this go into effect? 
and when are you shipping my motor to me after you build it??








DBLSVT!! brownguys tumbs up! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif waiting to hear when it's tuned ...


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_...The rod set came in at a hair under $1400.

how many grams?


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_how many grams?

560 gr a piece - complete set balanced to less than within 1gr of each other.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

That's it?!


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

Those are some pretty pistons...
I love the ABA pistons because they make the perfect beer coaster... Set a beer can on top of one sometime... It fits PERFECTLY! I have a set of scorched ones I am polishing and turning into can coasters.


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_I love the ABA pistons because they make the perfect beer coaster... Set a beer can on top of one sometime... It fits PERFECTLY! I have a set of scorched ones I am polishing and turning into can coasters.









Ohh, he comes up with another good idea. I have 2 from my last motor. New project!!

snatchin pg 2


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## Mr.Brownstone (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (PBWB)*

Nice pistons...a waste of money but still they look all nice and shiny.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Mr.Brownstone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Brownstone* »_Nice pistons...a waste of money but still they look all nice and shiny. 

Waste of money why?


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Brownstone* »_Nice pistons...a waste of money but still they look all nice and shiny. 



_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Waste of money why?

The plot thickens...this should be good.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

For the $1400 I would have expected a much lighter rod. The Eurospec "LW" code 20/159mm rods are $725 @ 480-500 grams. Their regular 21/159mm is $800 @ 530-560 grams.
Then you have companies like Toga and Scat with an average of $325-$350 cost. The guys in the 16v forum are weighing 20/159mm assembled right out of the package @ 560 grams.
I know you are big on the street/daily driver side of things, Scats or lightened stock rods would have done the trick ten time over, especially for a naturally aspirated engine.
None of this a dig or anything, I am just very shocked at the cost vs. grams ratio.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_For the $1400 I would have expected a much lighter rod. The Eurospec "LW" code 20/159mm rods are $725 @ 480-500 grams. Their regular 21/159mm is $800 @ 530-560 grams.
Then you have companies like Toga and Scat with an average of $325-$350 cost. The guys in the 16v forum are weighing 20/159mm assembled right out of the package @ 560 grams.
I know you are big on the street/daily driver side of things, Scats or lightened stock rods would have done the trick ten time over, especially for a naturally aspirated engine.
None of this a dig or anything, I am just very shocked at the cost vs. grams ratio. 

Agreed there are lighter rods fully assembled, however based on user experience and quality I chose the Arrow's - they're highly recommended in the BMW club racing world, as well as in the European track world for several manufacturers. I do want more longevity since my car will be daily driven. I prefer to have my rods forged by the company that actually finishes them thus maintaining QC right through the complete process. 



_Modified by WolfGTI at 11:30 AM 5-2-2006_


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## Maverik869 (Jan 3, 2003)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

i just want a nice 94 obd1 block... ill be happy w. that


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Maverik869)*

Mendra, my IM's aren't working, I guess I will catch up with you later.

_Quote, originally posted by *Maverik869* »_i just want a nice 94 obd1 block... ill be happy w. that

I hear you, I just want my golf on the road. With or without a built up engine, I just miss driving a fun car.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_Mendra, my IM's aren't working, I guess I will catch up with you later.

I hear you, I just want my golf on the road. With or without a built up engine, I just miss driving a fun car.









No prob Billy - I sent you an IM - take it easy.


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## Mr.Brownstone (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Waste of money why?


Waste of money because you've just spend thousands and wont even make what a chip/intake/exhaust 1.8t will do in HP and forget about the torque difference. 

Pistons: $700
Rods: $700
Cams: $800
Head w/ port work: $1400
Thousands of dollars to be different:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Mr.Brownstone)*

But any rich kid with daddy's credit card can get 200whp out of one of those.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Mr.Brownstone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Brownstone* »_Waste of money because you've just spend thousands and wont even make what a chip/intake/exhaust 1.8t will do in HP and forget about the torque difference. 

Pistons: $700
Rods: $700
Cams: $800
Head w/ port work: $1400
Thousands of dollars to be different:









Let's see - chipped 1.8T sheep or a motor that is in the same league with a super car motors in terms of hp/liter. I'll take my route, turbos will always be faster but less satisfying to drive. It takes so little challenge to make power with a 1.8T that why bother, I don't like big turbo 1.8T's powerband / delivery so instead I'll challenge myself and build an all motor car. 




_Modified by WolfGTI at 11:30 AM 5-4-2006_


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## NINj4 (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Good man! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Sheep 1.8ts http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## HK1980 (Jan 7, 2003)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Mr.Brownstone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Brownstone* »_Waste of money because you've just spend thousands and wont even make what a chip/intake/exhaust 1.8t will do in HP and forget about the torque difference. 

Pistons: $700
Rods: $700
Cams: $800
Head w/ port work: $1400
Thousands of dollars to be different:









It has nothing to do with what you are talking about,why are vortex people so narrow minded.If you even look at wolf's build,his key is all around balance.Comparing this built engine to a lousy 1.8t isnt even in the same ball park.A stock engine cant be compared to an aftermarket balanced engine.There are people who know precision balance in tuning,and there are others who drive stock 1.8t.


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## bajan01 (Nov 26, 2001)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Mr.Brownstone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Brownstone* »_Waste of money because you've just spend thousands and wont even make what a chip/intake/exhaust 1.8t will do in HP and forget about the torque difference.

One would think that this was the 1.8T forum


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (need_a_VR6)*

If 1.8T's are sheep and built N/A 20/20's are challenging, then what is my new project?
For some reason the word "stupid" keeps ringing a bell. Yeah, that sound about right... stupid.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_If 1.8T's are sheep and built N/A 20/20's are challenging, then what is my new project?
For some reason the word "stupid" keeps ringing a bell. Yeah, that sound about right... stupid.









No - I think insane would be more appropos.


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## independent77 (May 23, 2003)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses - all motor buildup exposed. (WolfGTI)*

Dope.

keep us updated.


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## pumpkin02 (Oct 26, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses - all motor buildup exposed. (WolfGTI)*

Nice VW parts and service sign.


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

So are you taking a 20v head and making it all NA? I remember seeing mention of a 20v head in the previous thread....
Just curious.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Scuba2001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scuba2001* »_So are you taking a 20v head and making it all NA? I remember seeing mention of a 20v head in the previous thread....
Just curious.

Yes that's my goal.


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## marco2.0 (Apr 25, 2006)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

sounds cool. keep us updated. I wouldnt mind going that route if you can get some good power out of it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## djpj06 (Jul 12, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

i think that this is a really cool build up.. keep the posts coming http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif sorry that the first post got holed. it is cool to see the ideas in the 2.0 forum... 
what kind of power are you expecting? what rpm limit? i have been thinking about this idea.... or the aba 20vt combo. how do you like the ms&s?... you got your pistons through usrt...correct? i would need new pistons either way and i would like to support them http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ... . my project is probably a year out or so


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (djpj06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *djpj06* »_i think that this is a really cool build up.. keep the posts coming http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif sorry that the first post got holed. it is cool to see the ideas in the 2.0 forum... 
what kind of power are you expecting? what rpm limit? i have been thinking about this idea.... or the aba 20vt combo. how do you like the ms&s?... you got your pistons through usrt...correct? i would need new pistons either way and i would like to support them http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ... . my project is probably a year out or so









Thank you for the comments.
Powerwise I am looking for 200 crank as a minimum. 
RPM limit - the bottom end will be good to 8500 rpm, the cams are good to 7800 or so.
The MSnS-E has worked wonderfully for me for almost 1 year daily driven now.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Well, not quite F1 territory, but that's some pretty high engine speed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## red97k2golf (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

def. a sweet project. Cant wait to see it finished http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Well, not quite F1 territory, but that's some pretty high engine speed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

F1 - somehow a car that idles @ 8000 - 9000 rpm and pulls to 19000 wouldn't be well received on the street, that plus I wouldn't be able to afford gas to keep it running.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_For some reason the word "stupid" keeps ringing a bell. Yeah, that sound about right... stupid.









I have a few 'stupid' heads to practice on if you want em.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_... if you want em.

I need to run down there soon so I can poke around your good junk, then we can take the ladies out for dinner.
For topic sake, Mr. Mendra, what are you thinking for the cylinder head? Honestly, for what that head flows in stock form I was just going to get a valve job on the stock intakes and replace the exhaust valves (with ones Joe can get) and call it a day. You really can't give it much more cam to warrant going much further than that for N/A.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_I need to run down there soon so I can poke around your good junk, then we can take the ladies out for dinner.
For topic sake, Mr. Mendra, what are you thinking for the cylinder head? Honestly, for what that head flows in stock form I was just going to get a valve job on the stock intakes and replace the exhaust valves (with ones Joe can get) and call it a day. You really can't give it much more cam to warrant going much further than that for N/A.

Mr.Billy - There's actually a solid lifter cam set out there but it's not daily driver friendly. Anyways with regards to the head, I am replacing the intake and exhaust valves with lighter SS valves from Supertech (through Joe) and Ti retainers with suitable springs to handle the lift on these cams. 
The head ports will be cleaned up a little to remove casting lines etc and at most gasket matched. 


_Modified by WolfGTI at 12:48 PM 5-3-2006_


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## burnt63 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

i hope you update your facts sheet that you display with your "show car". all these engine mods better get you more points mendra. haha. 
actually its looking good mendra. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Let's see - chipped 1.8T sheep or a motor that is in the same league with a super car motors in terms of hp/liter. I'll take my route, turbos will always be faster but less satisfying to drive. It takes so little challenge to make power with a 1.8T that why bother, I don't like big turbo 1.8T's powerband / delivery so instead I'll challange myself and build an all motor car. 


I have to agree...Some of the most fun, and most impressive cars I've ever driven / dyno'd are all motor cars. Something about an NA motor making 185whp at 9krpm is just magical. (yeah, they've been hondas, but still, you can't hate on the power they can make) 
A 20v 4-cyl making similar power (or even slightly close) would be a true ripper







a motor after my own heart....hhehehehehe

















_Modified by [email protected] at 11:51 AM 5-3-2006_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (burnt63)*


_Quote, originally posted by *burnt63* »_i hope you update your facts sheet that you display with your "show car". all these engine mods better get you more points mendra. haha. 

I'm sorry but I lowell'd a little bit at that one.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (GodsChariot337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GodsChariot337* »_That's all this car would be good for...showing cuz Im sure he doesn't want to be embarrassed by VR swapped cars.

The thought had not crossed my mind, but thanks for bringing that into perspective for me.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

What are you using/going to use for Exhaust? I presume not the AGN (i.e. Euro, N/A Header) and are looking for a long tube full race of sorts?
Just curious...
I am building up a 20/20 G60 motor as we speak and ended up buying a Supersprint Mk2 16v Header ($$) and will be mating it to a SS Flange I have. Definitely not plug and play, but for my setup it should be perfect (hopefully).










_Modified by sdezego at 3:34 PM 5-3-2006_


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_What are you using/going to use for Exhaust? I presume not the AGN (i.e. Euro, N/A Header)?
Just curious...
I am building up a 20/20 G60 motor as we speak and ended up buying a Supersprint Mk2 16v Header ($$) and will be mating it to a SS Flange I have. Definitely not plug and play, but for my setup it should be perfect (hopefully).









The 16v SS header spaces out between the primaries enough for the 20v head/ flange? That's interesting - I was going to have a stainless 4 into 1 equal length header made for the car. 


_Modified by WolfGTI at 3:52 PM 5-3-2006_


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Get a TT 16v header with the slip on collector, remove the 16v flanges, reposition them to one of the many 20v exhaust flanges available.
Pretty damn cost effective and will get the job done. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_Get a TT 16v header with the slip on collector, remove the 16v flanges, reposition them to one of the many 20v exhaust flanges available.
Pretty damn cost effective and will get the job done. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

My worry with that idea is are the primaries large enough - I believe the 20v ports are larger than the 16v primaries in that TT header


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

On the SS header, the primaries are actually slightly bigger then the ports on my AEB head so no worries there. iirc (1.5" vs ~1 3/8 as measured). I will either match them or leave the head slightly smaller to help prevent reversion. (not really sure about this yet).
As far as the spacing, the outers are pretty close and the inners are off by a few mm, but nothing that can't be corrected.
I will try and get some pics with the flange up to the header so you can see the offsets.
Shawn


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_On the SS header, the primaries are actually slightly bigger then the ports on my AEB head so no worries there. iirc (1.5" vs ~1 3/8 as measured). I will either match them or leave the head slightly smaller to help prevent reversion. (not really sure about this yet).
As far as the spacing, the outers are pretty close and the inners are off by a few mm, but nothing that can't be corrected.
I will try and get some pics with the flange up to the header so you can see the offsets.
Shawn

My head is an AEB as well - I hadn't measured up yet - but this info is muchly appreciated, definitely will save me some time.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

I will hook up some pics tonight. I need to post them on the G60 forums 20v thread anyway.
Shawn


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_I will hook up some pics tonight. I need to post them on the G60 forums 20v thread anyway.
Shawn

Here you go. The information I posted above was indeed accurate. Rather than repost everything here again, here is a link to my post in the G60 Forum's 20v thread.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...ge=22
Hope this helps.
Shawn


----------



## blinkinbanana (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Let's see - chipped 1.8T sheep or a motor that is in the same league with a super car motors in terms of hp/liter. I'll take my route, turbos will always be faster but less satisfying to drive. It takes so little challenge to make power with a 1.8T that why bother, I don't like big turbo 1.8T's powerband / delivery so instead I'll challenge myself and build an all motor car. 

I'll buy that for a dollar...my rocco all motor car was balls ass fast. with a stock motor in it, just about, maybe 130-140 hp. while my jetta with a turbo and 10# boost in it feels much slower, and only ran .5 seconds faster in the 1/4. I can chirp 2nd, and 3rd in my rocco, but some times only 2nd in my jetta.


_Modified by WolfGTI at 11:30 AM 5-4-2006_


----------



## bajan01 (Nov 26, 2001)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (blinkinbanana)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blinkinbanana* »_I'll buy that for a dollar...my rocco all motor car was balls ass fast.

Power to weight ratio is your friend


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (bajan01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bajan01* »_Power to weight ratio is your friend









true dat. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Eurospec 2.0 forged 4340 race crank - lightened, balanced, knife edged, drilled journals. Camera battery was low - hence the pics came out rather poorly. The crank looks greasy - it has some sort of protective goo coating it - not nice and shiny to the touch like the pistons and rods were.


























_Modified by WolfGTI at 11:49 AM 9-28-2006_


----------



## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

Looks very nice.


----------



## Professor15 (Aug 2, 2005)

Nice build. Couple of Q's. What does the head flow stock and after your done with the headwork how many cfm's are you looking at gainin? 2nd- what E.t's and mph are you looking forward too? 3rd- why not just build ( or get a built) a header for YOUR application? Headers can make or break the build, the airflow should have no bottle necks. * from a honda guy point of veiw lol*


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Professor15)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Professor15* »_Nice build. Couple of Q's. What does the head flow stock and after your done with the headwork how many cfm's are you looking at gainin? 2nd- what E.t's and mph are you looking forward too? 3rd- why not just build ( or get a built) a header for YOUR application? Headers can make or break the build, the airflow should have no bottle necks. * from a honda guy point of veiw lol*

1 - Stock AEB head flows in the neighbourhood of 220~225cfm (not going wild on the head as this is a daily driver).
3 - I intend to have a custom header 4 into 1 with 1.75 inch primaries merging into a 2.5inch collector.
4 - As far as ET's and mph - I am not building a drag car per se. The car is more of a highway pull / circuit /road course car. That being said I would hope for mid 14's at the minimum with traps into the 90's, however this is guesswork on my part. I am just going off what my stock 8v bottom end with a worked 8v head is doing presently.


----------



## Professor15 (Aug 2, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
1 - Stock AEB head flows in the neighbourhood of 220~225cfm (not going wild on the head as this is a daily driver).
3 - I intend to have a custom header 4 into 1 with 1.75 inch primaries merging into a 2.5inch collector.
4 - As far as ET's and mph - I am not building a drag car per se. The car is more of a highway pull / circuit /road course car. That being said I would hope for mid 14's at the minimum with traps into the 90's, however this is guesswork on my part. I am just going off what my stock 8v bottom end with a worked 8v head is doing presently.
 Cool beans. I just started getting into Vdubs, thanks to one of my boyz. But imo i think the head should be reworked to acheive great power across the whole powerband. What cfm's do the worked 8valve heads flow? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Professor15)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Professor15* »_ Cool beans. I just started getting into Vdubs, thanks to one of my boyz. But imo i think the head should be reworked to acheive great power across the whole powerband. What cfm's do the worked 8valve heads flow? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

The head will be worked - but not probably to the fullest extent it can be as that would spoil the low end considerably. My 8v head flows 178cfm @ 28inches of water I forget the lift figure.


----------



## Professor15 (Aug 2, 2005)

O ok. Well hopefully in the near future i can start practicing porting on the 8valve heads and see what i can get. IMO Power is in the head. Good luck with your project looks like your taking no short cuts.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Professor15)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Professor15* »_O ok. Well hopefully in the near future i can start practicing porting on the 8valve heads and see what i can get. IMO Power is in the head. Good luck with your project looks like your taking no short cuts.

Thank you, I am taking my time getting everything together, this is the more costly route, but I believe the motor with the components I have chosen will have the longevity and integrity I want as opposed to a 'grenade' special. I agree much of the power is in the head. I'm going to dyno my 8v on Sat and see what it has in it. Considering the bottom end is completely stock and the head and breathing is what was focused upon. The 20v build is more of a complete all round build, the 8v was the test bed to see what gains the ITB's and proper breathing can do on a fairly asthmatic head in stock form.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Make sure you get your sheets scanned. I'm curious to see them with the ITBs.


----------



## Metallitubby (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

this thread is Loscavio approved http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Killzone2142 (Oct 7, 2005)

this makes me want to do an all motor set up badly.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

Here's the dyno sheets - 
This one is my better runs @ NGP without the ITB's. 
8v ABA2.0L with a ported head, Supersprint headers, TT276 cam, stock bottom end - (90,000 miles)








This is the same motor 2 years later with the ITB's. (148,000miles)











_Modified by WolfGTI at 3:24 PM 12-19-2006_


----------



## 7thGear (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

well the torque finaly stopped dropping off so violenty with the ITB's installed
what sort of engine management are you running?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (7thGear)*

MegaSquirtNSpark-Extra


----------



## newshoes (Jun 25, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

stuff looks good Mendra!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Definitly goin in the right direction!














cant wait to hear them on the road.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Those A/F plots on the latter need some work... lol
j/k Nice going http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## lowa2 (Sep 7, 2005)

*Re: (sdezego)*

well now, this whole thread just encouraged me to get my N/A 2.0 going !!! 
Good work, and keep it up.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Some info - with regards to my con rod set 








I weighed the rods on a postal scale. 
3 of the rods weighed 564 grams and one weighed 563 grams - How's that for quality control and balance.










_Modified by WolfGTI at 11:50 AM 9-28-2006_


----------



## Killzone2142 (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

omg i feel really stupid i checked wolf gti sig and saw his itb setup and i was like oh snap i remeber when i was reading that forum. yeah his car is on the usrt website under itbs. i love that vid too


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Wizard-of-OD)*

Update: - Block is finished at the machine shop. Assembly to begin in the coming week. I'll post pics of the assembly process.


----------



## 0320thGTI (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Bump following and waiting.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Maddave10 (Feb 19, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Wow...even the paint on the car looks incredible. This makes me envious of those who are mechanically inclined. Great looking car...great project http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## FiReD-uP (Jan 22, 2003)

ever thought of selling some pistons like that as beer coasters?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Maddave10)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Maddave10* »_Wow...even the paint on the car looks incredible. This makes me envious of those who are mechanically inclined. Great looking car...great project http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks for the compliments. My paint isn't super but its not bad for a car with 155k on it.


----------



## VWinA (Oct 20, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

so what's going on with the build?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (VWinA)*

Nothing new this week - I'll be on vacation for a week, once that's done my evenings and spare time will be fully devoted to getting this done.


----------



## urogolf (Dec 10, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

sooo anything new?


----------



## jettatech (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (urogolf)*

GET SOME!!!!!


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Well here's some shots of the pistons in the block, the crank as well. Things are coming along with the project - still shooting for an end of August install.
*Pistons in block*
















*Bottom end with oil pump in place*








* Close up of knife edging on crankshaft with ARP main studs and rod bolts.*
















*You can see the drilled journals which is for further weight reduction of the crank*



























_Modified by WolfGTI at 11:53 AM 9-28-2006_


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Looks like it is coming along, looking forward to the finished project... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Sandlock (Aug 10, 2001)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

^^x2


----------



## root beer (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Sandlock)*

love it.


----------



## independent77 (May 23, 2003)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (root beer)*

This post has been successfully reported to a moderator.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (independent77)*


_Quote, originally posted by *independent77* »_This post has been successfully reported to a moderator.









Uh huh.


----------



## twelvevolt (Oct 29, 2003)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

hey Mendra, if your car randomly vanishes one day, chances are i might have "borrowed" it. haha


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (1sik95jetta)*

Come wearing kevlar, my bedroom window is over the driveway, I don't miss from it.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Well folks, this weekend the motor gets situated into the car for intake and header mockup - look for pics on Sunday.


----------



## SuperChicken13 (Dec 6, 2003)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Subscribed. Fap fap fap fap fap fap fap ........


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Well after some little delays - you'd be amazed this swap has parts from every watercooled engine VW has sold in the US - 8v, 16v, VR6, TDI and 20v. 
Here's some more shots -
*Head*








*Head* 








*Block in car*
















*Oilpan*








*Looking up into the motor on the lift.*


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Hey, I still have that header for you. There is just no chance I am going to make it out in the evening to meet up, baby boy is proven to be quite a handful in the evening/night. It's here at the house if you want to make a run to come get it some time. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*









What frame is this going in?What are you doing for ITB's?Want to buy my set up?


----------



## veedub0948 (Aug 1, 2006)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Wizard-of-OD)*

i have a 1999.5 Mark 4 jetta with the 2.0 AEG jont, but what kind of 16v will bolt directly to my stock block, if any??


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_








What frame is this going in?What are you doing for ITB's?Want to buy my set up?









It's going into a 4 door mk3. I already have 4 - 45mm ITB's - I used to run my 8v on them, but of course the 8v couldn't utilize them fully, this 20v should.


----------



## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

Oh, you used to have an 8v? I think i saw your car on the dyno at NGP. I had the green corrado that was going on after yours with Kevin B. tuning it. Setup looks good man. Keep it up


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (vr6chris)*

Yes I remember you - how's the rado working ?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Looking good man!
Shawn


----------



## thebigmacd (Aug 17, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Sick project.
Just how do you verify power gains on a dyno when every part comes from a different motor?








Seriously though, a great avenue to explore.


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (thebigmacd)*

nice work,bro. you surely do your research and homework. It shows!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
so ..make sure of 2 things ...
1- we need more pics
2- we need a video with SOUND! 

oh. what'd you cook today?


----------



## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Yes I remember you - how's the rado working ?

parted out the vrturbo and did a 20v setup. in the works right now. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dhutchvento (May 8, 2006)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

*Looking up into the motor on the lift.*







[/QUOTE]
how much did that crank work set you back??? and does drilling out the crank journals compromise the crank strength????


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (dhutchvento)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dhutchvento* »_*Looking up into the motor on the lift.*
how much did that crank work set you back??? and does drilling out the crank journals compromise the crank strength????

The crank is not a stock machined piece. It's an after market forged 4340 Eurospec crank. It's their lightweight racing crank, the drilled journals do not comprimise the motor in a naturally aspirated motor however on a boosted motor I'd get the non drilled version of this crank. IIRC the crank was in the $1200 range.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

I just creamed my pants.







Start it already!
Mendra, if you EVAR have to sell this car, I WILL be taking off your hands.


----------



## mack73 (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (PBWB)*

Holy moly http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (PBWB)*

Well it's not going to be completed this weekend














- the DCOE flange for the ITB's is not perfectly centered for the ITB's so a new flange will have to be made. Other than that it's a go.


----------



## audituner06 (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

supper set up for N/A







but how about going with a hoolset hx35 turgocharger on that block with that head







?
I was courious cuz I am doing a build on my 99.5 audia4q 
where would you get that euro spec cranck from?
I was wondering wich 2.0l engine would be the best for the 99.5 aeb head?


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (audituner06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *audituner06* »_supper set up for N/A







but how about going with a hoolset hx35 turgocharger on that block with that head







?
I was courious cuz I am doing a build on my 99.5 audia4q 
where would you get that euro spec cranck from?
I was wondering wich 2.0l engine would be the best for the 99.5 aeb head? 


If you're doing it in a A4, you're pretty much stuck with the AEB block as the tall deck aba is going to have a few issues being squeezed into the Audi's engine bay. Also, the AEB is a good block. Just need a 2l crank, rods and pistons.


----------



## IEatBabies (Sep 22, 2006)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Band-Aid)*

i am gonna lose sleep thinking about this beauty, save me the frustration, and double/triple/quadruple check your timing before you bolt down this magnificent head, you will have to sell organs to buy those pistons again.


----------



## myjettaisred (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (IEatBabies)*









your absolutely correct sir http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (myjettaisred)*

Some more pics. 
*Pic of the stock 20v exhaust manifold bolted on to the MK3 downpipe - lines up perfectly.* 
















*Engine with Valve cover in car*
























* Test fitment of aftermarket rad/fan assembly*








* Stock Cams vs my Kent Cams*








* Stock Intake Cam vs Kent Intake Cam*








*Stock Exhaust Cam vs Kent Exhaust Cam*











_Modified by WolfGTI at 9:20 PM 9-28-2006_


----------



## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

looks good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

I'm giggleing like a little schoolgirl here in my office.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

Lift it baby!!!


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

As I found out today - if the cams were any bigger - they wouldn't fit in the head without work, plus the retainers that hold down the camshafts would have had to be machined as there's barely clearance as the pictures show.



































_Modified by WolfGTI at 9:19 PM 9-28-2006_


----------



## urogolf (Dec 10, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*
























wow i cant wait to hear that thing
are you plannin on usin the same throttle bodies as before?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (urogolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *urogolf* »_























wow i cant wait to hear that thing
are you plannin on usin the same throttle bodies as before?

Yes I will be using the same ones.


----------



## twelvevolt (Oct 29, 2003)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

is this running yet? bring it down to philly next week if it is. i want to check it out.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Tlak about a close fit!!!!

_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_As I found out today - if the cams were any bigger - they wouldn't fit in the head without work, plus the retainers that hold down the camshafts would have had to be machined as there's barely clearance as the pictures show.

















_Modified by WolfGTI at 9:19 PM 9-28-2006_


----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_










I am curious! What timing belt and tensoiner combo did you use?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

Belt is a 158 Tooth Conti Curvelinear II profile, still working on finalising the tensioner setup.


----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

Ok keep up the good work. Great Thread! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

Try to source an AWP valve cover http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .Did you purchase the Autotech IM shaft gear as well?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

The valve cover I have is polished, plus I bought the aluminim cover plates to allow me to fit the 16v wires from 034EFI already so I'll be sticking with this valve cover - thanks though. Yes I did order and purchase the Autotech IM shaft gear.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Progress update - timed the crank/cam/distributor today. Then cranked over the motor by hand 2 times. Turned over freely - but peeking down the intake ports; it's scary the clearances in there when the piston comes up. Should have the ITB flange done by Fri evening (I hope) will update when that is done. Radiator is mounted, most of the coolant hoses are hooked up / fabbed.


----------



## WanganLLama (Apr 15, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

what engine management and trigger setup will you be running?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WanganLLama)*

MegaSquirt - using the hall sensor in the distributor.


----------



## regrind (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

are you done yet? jeez.
I told you you'd beat me.


----------



## vwnthusiast (Feb 5, 2006)

ill be watching closely


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_MegaSquirt - using the hall sensor in the distributor.

So your staying with the distributor or going coil packs?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_So your staying with the distributor or going coil packs?









I am staying with the distributor for now - maybe in spring I'll toy with getting coil packs.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Looking good, Mendra... Can't wait to see some more progress. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (ABF Jeff)*

So the delay has been related to the intake - finally got it fabbed today. Then commenced the 3 hours of grinding and porting to make everything as nice as possible. Car will be started Monday due to weekend social engagements (wedding of best friend). Stay tuned - in the meantime here are some pics.
*External Mocal oil cooler mounted.*








*MK4 2.0L lower hose to go across to radiator spout*








*Lower end of downpipe*








*Race-Shop Joe porting the welded intake.*








*Horns*








* More horns*








*Even more horns*








*Parting shot*










_Modified by WolfGTI at 11:29 PM 10-6-2006_


----------



## pumpkin02 (Oct 26, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_ Car will be started Monday due to weekend social engagements (wedding of best friend). 


Hey, that's me.








Good luck getting it running next week. I'll be thinking about you as I sit in my lounge chair on a Dominican beach sipping my Coco Loco.


----------



## mack73 (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (pumpkin02)*

what is the plan for a crankcase vent? since there is a block off plate on the block and IIRC the head doesn't have a vent?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (mack73)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mack73* »_what is the plan for a crankcase vent? since there is a block off plate on the block and IIRC the head doesn't have a vent?

Vent is throught the head - look at this pic.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

This car s gonna be a legend.
201/187


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

If I were you I would try and score some of these:


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

So nice of you to change the thread title Mendra............pics look awesome.
And travis is right, this will be a legend.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Project ABE


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

So the motor was started up yesterday. It runs - no bent valves or odd noises. However it seems with the compression I am running, I will need to vent both the block and the head (separately), because once the motor builds up pressure under load it is seeping oil from the oil seals. Will report back after the block is vented.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Nice! I know from recent experience that first starts are tough. This project looks great!


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (BMGFifty)*

ABE sounds like a 1.8T


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Hell yeah!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Venting the block shouldn't be an issue, it will get all sorted out.
How big was your







when that bad boy was fired up??? X10.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_Hell yeah!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Venting the block shouldn't be an issue, it will get all sorted out.
How big was your







when that bad boy was fired up??? X10.

I was smiling, but also a little worried that because of the clearances. Now that we have the fan wiring and the motor isn't tearing itself apart I am a little happier. Tuning this thing is going to be harder than sorting out the 8v, I can see it. I'll keep updating. PS - A1Crazy has video, if he makes an mpeg i'll link to it.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Well, you have one foot in the door as Joe knows Nate fwell enough, could get you in the right direction as your build up is very similar to his first generation 20/20 engine. Maybe we can cash in a favor for helping yank and tear down the tranny to make the next round at Atco a few years ago.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

Update - drove the car home - appears the breather in the blockoff plate solved the oil seal seepage. Now the tuning begins.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

awesome buildup man cant wait to see hp numbers should be well over 200 imho


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Hell yea! Waiting on the video...........


----------



## dhutchvento (May 8, 2006)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_Hell yea! Waiting on the video...........

seeing this thing on video footage is a must..... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I know it will change my perception on N/A vehicles -- for instance my bosses carrera (saw it for the first time today) can knock out 325 hp on a 3.2 liter flat six -- and it sure sings a sweet song when he gets on it.... exc this 1.8t is more in tune w/ the ferrari - in the sense it can rev like hell and has 5 valve/cyl......


----------



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_Hell yea! Waiting on the video...........


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (VWn00b)*

Video of the initial startup and drive - sorry it's long and my ugly mug is in it.
Edit - Shorter video listed below


_Modified by WolfGTI at 3:53 PM 11-2-2006_


----------



## root beer (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

That's great man.


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (root beer)*









whoa. *speechless* http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## burnt63 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

about time mendra. haha. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## burnt63 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_Well, you have one foot in the door as Joe knows Nate fwell enough, could get you in the right direction as your build up is very similar to his first generation 20/20 engine. Maybe we can cash in a favor for helping yank and tear down the tranny to make the next round at Atco a few years ago.








i remember that day at atco. i think it was right before we got the pizza delivered to us at the fence.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (burnt63)*

Is it wrong that the n/a 20/20 makes me horny?
We could have just used the last 5 minutes of the video. Still, it sounds AMAZING. Dyno time!


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_Dyno time!

That engine is built to make the power fore sure, it's potential will be limited/handicapped to how well it can get tuned. I am very curious to see how this stacks up to other 20/20 naturally aspirated engines with similar builds.


----------



## urogolf (Dec 10, 2000)

WOW


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (urogolf)*

What plug wires are you using?








Sounds very intimidating


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_That engine is built to make the power fore sure, it's potential will be limited/handicapped to how well it can get tuned. I am very curious to see how this stacks up to other 20/20 naturally aspirated engines with similar builds.

Oh no doubt, I agree with youre first sentence. I too would like to see it stack up to similar setups. Management, C/R, and tune will definitely be the deciding factors.


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_What plug wires are you using?








Sounds very intimidating









those are 16v wires
Mendra, edit that damn video, it's way too long


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*

shorter vid
http://video.google.com/videop...hl=en


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A1Crazy* »_those are 16v wires
Mendra, edit that damn video, it's way too long

You made the damn video long - so quit whining.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A1Crazy* »_those are 16v wires

Custom length or stock units?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

I cant believe after all that, you still have the "la cuka racha" plug still in your fuse box!!!


----------



## LZ7J (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

wolfgti, congrats on finishing the build http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
i'm thorougly impressed!









maybe if, actually, WHEN you get bored of the n/a power you can consider on adding a turbo







!


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Custom length or stock units?

stock. I believe you can also use 12v VR6 wires but then you need a tool to remove them


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*

re-edit of the short vid
http://video.google.com/videop...hl=en
I tried to get the audio a little clearer but Windows Movie Maker sucks. I also added a clip of it backfiring through the TB


----------



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

That thing looks sick. Can't wait to see what it puts down.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A1Crazy* »_stock. I believe you can also use 12v VR6 wires but then you need a tool to remove them

They are off the shelf 16v wires. I have heard you can also use Passat v6 wires - from the 2.8L - but I have not confirmed that.


----------



## twelvevolt (Oct 29, 2003)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

mendra, i want a ride.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (1sik95jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1sik95jetta* »_mendra, i want a ride. 

I rode for 3+ hours last night and all I got was a backache.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_I rode for 3+ hours last night and all I got was a backache.









Whiner - learn to sit properly.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Hunching over the laptop didn't help at all


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Hunching over the laptop didn't help at all









You could at least give your perception of the motor etc. !!!


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Oh, yeah, about that. The motor is punchy as all hell, idles like it's gargling nails and 6k when he shifts it's definitley still on the upswing of the tq and hp curves. It's going to be a beast.


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_I rode for 3+ hours last night and all I got was a backache.









Tell him to ride you next time then.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_Tell him to ride you next time then.









Hmm I think not.


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

just found this thread and read it through from the start!! every glorious word!!! that thing is sick and i cannot wait for some more vids!!! top notch work!!! makes my shorts very tight!! something so sexy about TB's!!!
really all i can say is WOW!!!


----------



## Mr Black (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*

Same here, just tuned in, not a minute too soon I see. Looking forward to the numbers and full-bore dyno footage!
For the record, why did you go with 20v when VW themselves have abandoned that set up and gone back to a four valve head? I think I know the answer but I'm curious to hear yours


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Mr Black)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr Black* »_Same here, just tuned in, not a minute too soon I see. Looking forward to the numbers and full-bore dyno footage!
For the record, why did you go with 20v when VW themselves have abandoned that set up and gone back to a four valve head? I think I know the answer but I'm curious to hear yours

From what I read, the major reason VW abandoned the 5v setup is because there is NO room to put the injector in the combustion chamber and keep efficient design for direct injection. The 5v is the best flowing easily available 4cyl head around right now. And since controlling an FSI setup with standalone is not doable yet, it only made sense to get the 5v head.


----------



## Mr Black (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Right on.....I figure the other part of the answer is that VW's EXISTING 4v head (our beloved 9A/PL 16v) is not anywhere near as good as a 4-valve head should be in terms of port angles and stuff, so you're right, a 20v is the best multivalve heaed AVAILABLE.


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (Mr Black)*

what other mods need to be done to the 20v head to the old 2.0 block?? i have heard of fitting the 16v head and have heard that it is a terrable amount of work!!! are you going to post a DIY on it?

Oh, and, where the F are the Dyno vids!!!!???????


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk3gti-usa* »_what other mods need to be done to the 20v head to the old 2.0 block?? i have heard of fitting the 16v head and have heard that it is a terrable amount of work!!! are you going to post a DIY on it?

Oh, and, where the F are the Dyno vids!!!!???????

There is a DIY -- that I used, http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1674618
I will also answer any sensible questions asked. 
As far as the dyno and vids, some video might be forth coming, there will be no dynoing for a while as this motor has to get some miles and tuning under it's belt, no one has a setup exactly like this, so my fueling and ign maps will take time to optimize. I took almost 8 months to get my 8v tuned to deliver more power than stock but better fuel economy and instant throttle response. This motor will get close but it will take at least 2 months of steady tweaking. I'll update as time passes - the motor just crossed 600 miles - it hasn't been past 6000 rpm yet.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

patients is a virtue, Mendra... I can't imagine not taking the thing out and beating it up from day one. I usually like to start with something broken in, and go from there, because I know I can't wait long enough.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_And since controlling an FSI setup with standalone is not doable yet, it only made sense to get the 5v head.

You can control the FSi Injector using a Motec M800 system.Dont know the details,just know its doable.
Wait till one of those MS geeks figure it out over a mcdonalds happy meal...


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
You can control the FSi Injector using a Motec M800 system.Dont know the details,just know its doable.
Wait till one of those MS geeks figure it out over a mcdonalds happy meal...









While that is true - pretty much no one on here with VERY few exceptions will shell out cash for a Motec M800. Remember most of the Vortexers are more about the cheapest route to speed than doing it properly. Of course there are exceptions.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
I'll update as time passes - the motor just crossed 600 miles - it hasn't been past 6000 rpm yet.

Slacker I had about 40 passes by 600mi







So when you ringing it out, 1500mi?


----------



## urogolf (Dec 10, 2000)

i'd call in sick to work and just DRIVE all day to get the miles


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
Slacker I had about 40 passes by 600mi







So when you ringing it out, 1500mi?

As i recall that motor didn't see much beyond 3000miles before it was trashed.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Slacker I had about 40 passes by 600mi

Ha ha ha, I think Pinto broke in his ABA swap during the 30 minute ride to Atco.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
Ha ha ha, I think Pinto broke in his ABA swap during the 30 minute ride to Atco.









Pinto is crazy - we all know that.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
As i recall that motor didn't see much beyond 3000miles before it was trashed.









Is that why you bought Kent cams?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
Is that why you bought Kent cams?









Nah...he just wanted to be the only mofo running Kents in the 2.0 forum. WHAT?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (urogolf)*

Just change the oil allready...600 miles is more than enough.Time to beat the stuffings out of that poor engine....


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

New oil is already in the car - will be changed this weekend


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_New oil is already in the car - will be changed this weekend










hurry up man..cruise to Toronto. put some mileage on it.








NIIIIICE!!


----------



## Rockford_VE (Apr 2, 2006)

*Re: (passataholic)*

damn, what a nice project....

i got some few questions:
I know that you're using a megasquirt, but you're using the distribuitor or you're only taken the signal from it?? 
the block it'a a 2.0 ABA, but the head cames from what car (i'm from venezuela and don't know so much about engine codes sorry for that)
my brother and I were thinking about to change the 8v head for a 16v head but here in my country it's so hard to find any head from a GTi mk2....
would be good to make that kind of head swap for boost??? 
Regards and congrats...
Rockford!


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (passataholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *passataholic* »_hurry up man..cruise to Toronto. put some mileage on it.








NIIIIICE!! 

vash! you need too come down and see your chubby brother and all his little white friends


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A1Crazy* »_
vash! you need too come down and see your chubby brother and all his little white friends

you guys sound like a cult. 








but first , i gotta try to do SOMETHING to my Jetta to hang with you boys!! i dont quite feel worthy with a stock Jetta being in your midst.. 


_Modified by passataholic at 4:31 PM 10-26-2006_


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (passataholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *passataholic* »_you guys sound like a cult. 








but first , i gotta try to do SOMETHING to my Jetta to hang with you boys!! i dont quite feel worthy with a stock Jetta being in your midst.. 

_Modified by passataholic at 4:31 PM 10-26-2006_

well i'm not really all that white. I'm more like peanut butter colored
Who cares if it's stock, my car runs like crap anyway.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Rockford_VE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rockford_VE* »_
i got some few questions:
I know that you're using a megasquirt, but you're using the distribuitor or you're only taken the signal from it?? 
the block it'a a 2.0 ABA, but the head cames from what car (i'm from venezuela and don't know so much about engine codes sorry for that)
my brother and I were thinking about to change the 8v head for a 16v head but here in my country it's so hard to find any head from a GTi mk2....
would be good to make that kind of head swap for boost??? 
Regards and congrats...
Rockford!

Distributor is for triggering and spark distribution. Head is from a 98/99 Passat/A4 engine code AEB. It would be a good head for boost as it comes stock attached to an early 1.8T engine. Thats a whole other story altogether though.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
Slacker I had about 40 passes by 600mi









That's what I'm talkin about! The motoman break-in! That's what I did to this motor I rebuilt for my car. I warmed it up to operating temps, let it cool down 10 minutes with the hood up, then as soon as I got an open road, BOOOOOOOST! My rings were sealed in about a mile and a half.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Here's the 8v ITB fuel map


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Here's the 20/20 ITB fuel map so far.


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*









so ..i have no idea what im looking at.








please esplain, mang.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (passataholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *passataholic* »_








so ..i have no idea what im looking at.








please esplain, mang. 

When you come visit, I'll explain it better then lil bro.


----------



## shwagondawheels (Jun 18, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

when are we going to see those dyno sheets man?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (shwagondawheels)*

wow mendra, that ABE map is FAT AS HELL!


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (shwagondawheels)*

yeah, what do those charts mean?? is that good??


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*

I'm assuming they are load, rpm, and fuel? (obviosly not in that order)


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (PBWB)*

I'm trying to count partitions and figure out if timing is in there as well, but It doesn't look like there is a timing curve.


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_I'm trying to count partitions and figure out if timing is in there as well, but It doesn't look like there is a timing curve.









i think in megasquirt you control timing on a totally different screen.
by the way, if any of you guys didn't download the new Firefox 2.0 you're missing out


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*

Those are just the fuel maps. RPM is on the across screen axis and MAP is on the upscreen axis.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Well, crossed 1000 miles today. Did a 1st, 2nd and partial 3rg gear run WOT. It appears that a 7000 rpm redline is not enough, the motor hits 7000 with no signs of losing power at all. It hits 7000 very quickly, hard to shift fast enough to keep up, in 1st and 2nd. I will increase the rpm rev limit to 7500 then 8000 to see how it behaves.... this might just be fun


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

You're runnin a wideband right?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_You're runnin a wideband right?

Yup - Innovate Motorsports LC1 with gauge.


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

do you have NOS?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A1Crazy* »_do you have NOS?








- No. lol


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Well, crossed 1000 miles today. Did a 1st, 2nd and partial 3rg gear run WOT. It appears that a 7000 rpm redline is not enough, the motor hits 7000 with no signs of losing power at all. It hits 7000 very quickly, hard to shift fast enough to keep up, in 1st and 2nd. I will increase the rpm rev limit to 7500 then 8000 to see how it behaves.... this might just be fun









Nice!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Well, crossed 1000 miles today. Did a 1st, 2nd and partial 3rg gear run WOT. It appears that a 7000 rpm redline is not enough, the motor hits 7000 with no signs of losing power at all. It hits 7000 very quickly, hard to shift fast enough to keep up, in 1st and 2nd. I will increase the rpm rev limit to 7500 then 8000 to see how it behaves.... this might just be fun









With *THOSE* cams?Stop being a wuss allready....


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
With *THOSE* cams?Stop being a wuss allready....

Lol - what rpm are you thinking of with these cams?


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

10,000


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Lol - what rpm are you thinking of with these cams?

Till it stops making power.








Adn I agree with W-o-O....take the skirt off and drive the thing! If it hasn't grenaded yet, you built it right. DRIVE IT!!!


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_It appears that a 7000 rpm redline is not enough

You think?









_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Lol - what rpm are you thinking of with these cams?

I am calling at least 7200/7300 peak power, 7800 shift points, 8400 rev limiter.
Drive that thing like it was built to be driven.


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

yea!


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
I am calling at least 7200/7300 peak power, 7800 shift points, 8400 rev limiter.
Drive that thing like it was built to be driven.


hmmm.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif he might be on something here, Mendra


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Lol - what rpm are you thinking of with these cams?

Aim for 8700 rpm's
Treat that engine like a 4A-GE 20V


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

8700 rpm - that's up there - gotta wait till I get my replacement tach - the one I was shipped from Summit isn't reading right - even after talking with Autometer - once I have it installed I'll venture up above 7000.


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

you don't need a tach, just hit the gas until the power starts going away, then shift


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*

Lol true - but I want to see how fast the rpm's climb - plus i won't push past 7k until the first oil change which is thursday.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
I am calling at least 7200/7300 peak power, 7800 shift points, 8400 rev limiter.
Drive that thing like it was built to be driven.

Just curious, but why would you have a shift point 500 rpm past your peak power point? Wouldn't you want to shift right at your peak power?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_
Just curious, but why would you have a shift point 500 rpm past your peak power point? Wouldn't you want to shift right at your peak power?

Assuming the motor peaks @ 7200, you would want to carry it a little past peak because that would put it into the climbing power in the next gear for sure as opposed to shifting and falling on your face a little before the power hits.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

That's why you don't shift like a girl. Just my opinion.


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Assuming the motor peaks @ 7200, you would want to carry it a little past peak because that would put it into the climbing power in the next gear for sure as opposed to shifting and falling on your face a little before the power hits.


Race to redline!!!








DBL!


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_That's why you don't shift like a girl. Just my opinion.

Sorry - your statement needs clarification.


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_
Just curious, but why would you have a shift point 500 rpm past your peak power point? Wouldn't you want to shift right at your peak power?

under most situations you wouldn't shift at your peak cause you still have power after your peak. Most likely more than if you upshifted.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_That's why you don't shift like a girl. Just my opinion.

Well, I definetly do not shift like a girl, never have never will.
That being said, I have never made a fast pass shifting any car at it's "peak" RPM. Honestly, one of the most common reasons for not seeing solid results on the 1/4 mile is due to shift points. Just because an engine makes peak power at a certain RPM doesn't mean that is the shift point to get you from A to B the fastest. You also don't need to bounce the damn thing off the limiter all the way down the track just because the car will rev out to there.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Further tweaking of the fuel maps have changed it a little.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

What are we looking at Mendra....sonar maps of the Atlantic ocean floor?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

You are looking at this transferred into a 3D map. Y'all ain't got no tuners up thar?


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A1Crazy* »_
under most situations you wouldn't shift at your peak cause you still have power after your peak. Most likely more than if you upshifted.

And under what situations would you have more power after your peak hp? 
The best thing to do is find the middle point between where your power is greatest, and when the next gear picks up the powerband the most.
Yet another reason why you should dyno Mendra. Let's see where your peak hp is........


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (PBWB)*

The dyno will come, I have to get the fueling and spark dialed into a point where I am happy then I''ll dyno, plus I want another thousand miles at least on it before I dyno it.


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

how's the motor feel to you? do you have any predictions of your own?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

In my opinion, your shift point is defined by where your rpm will drop to 500rpms prior to your torque peak. 
This is figured out by looking at a line graph of your gearing vs rpms for your particular transmission.


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_
And under what situations would you have more power after your peak hp? 
The best thing to do is find the middle point between where your power is greatest, and when the next gear picks up the powerband the most.
Yet another reason why you should dyno Mendra. Let's see where your peak hp is........

ok so why are you saying shift at your peak then??? Mendra will dyno it when he gets around to it.
Why is everyone set on numbers? He wants to drive it. I don't really care what my car puts out, I just like that it's faster than most cars I see in traffic everyday and more importantly it's fun


_Modified by A1Crazy at 1:45 PM 11-1-2006_


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A1Crazy* »_
ok so why are you saying shift at your peak then??? Mendra will dyno it when he gets around to it.
Why is everyone set on numbers? He wants to drive it. I don't really care what my car puts out, I just like that it's faster than most cars I see in traffic everyday and more importantly it's fun

_Modified by A1Crazy at 1:45 PM 11-1-2006_








true.

inquiring minds want to know.. probably because Mendra is blazing a trail with this setup. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif










_Modified by passataholic at 7:04 PM 11-1-2006_


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (passataholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *passataholic* »_probably because Mendra is blazing a trail with this setup. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









Exactly. And I thought about why I said to shift at peak power moments, and decided that my new approach would probably be best.


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_
Exactly. And I thought about why I said to shift at peak power moments, and decided that my new approach would probably be best. 

ok, thats fine. Just don't go around telling people they shift like a girl when you don't know them personally.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*

Roger that.
How's fuel economy thus far?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A1Crazy* »_
Just don't go around telling people they shift like a girl when you don't know them personally.

That being said, Mendra definitely shifts like a girl. He needs a B&M bad.


----------



## The Rice Cooker (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

I like the setup on your car tdogg, but I don't completely agree with shifting so you are 500rpm below peak torque. My car used to peak out it's torque way before 4k rpms. That being said my car can rev to 6700 before it hits the rev limiter, so for me to shift so I fall 500 rpm below peak torque, would at the very most put me at 3500 rpm (not making too much hp there...). I look at a curve of my dyno and where the hp makes a hill and calculate where and when I need to shift to stay on that hill. I like to carry the power maybe 500 to 700 rpm past peak in 3rd or higher gears since when I engage the higher gear this will put me in a place where the car is still making decent torque but is well into making horsepower. Say you would lose 2krpm on a shift, I'm dropping to 4500, as opposed to 3500 or even less. Now when this 20/20 is finished being broken in, I imagine when he upshifts he'll be past 5k rpm.
A page all for myself?










_Modified by The Rice Cooker at 11:16 AM 11-2-2006_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (The Rice Cooker)*

You should shift when the hp in the gear you're in = hp in the next gear but on its way up.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
That being said, Mendra definitely shifts like a girl. He needs a B&M bad.









Paul you keep up the trash talk and I'll have to bandit the B&M from the Mulberry. I do agree the cable shifter sucks compared to the solid linkage shift feel. 
Regarding fuel economy, I haven't tracked it yet - I'll know better within a week as I intend to start tracking it with my next fill up.


----------



## ms.golf (Oct 22, 2005)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

good stuff http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*

Wow, low blow. True story though.


_Modified by WolfGTI at 10:16 PM 11-2-2006_


----------



## at_the_speed_of_2.l0w (Jun 18, 2006)

This is interesting regarding shift points. It's for a 1.8T, but the therory sould be valid.
http://forums.audiworld.com/vag/msgs/861.phtml


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

First oil change - 1200 miles. Oil was very clean even dropped the pan and looked, very clean very little if any metallic looking substances.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

2 late stage pics


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

blow it up yet?


----------



## regrind (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*

sounded good last night.. thanks again for the cheesesteak http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (regrind)*

You know Mendra I was looking @ using Bango fittings & SS line for my vaccuum ports because 4 vaccuum tubes sticking up in the air is a real eye sore..








Whats it making allready!


----------



## McNeil (Jan 18, 2006)

In the first picture there is an open vacuum opening on the valve cover, what goes there, or did go there? Do you have it blocked off?


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (McNeil)*

That's the valve cover breather. It usually goes into the PVC system and back into the intake tract. He just left it open. Some people put a filter on there so no debris gets in there, others use a catch can or a hose routed to the ground.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_You know Mendra I was looking @ using Bango fittings & SS line for my vaccuum ports because 4 vaccuum tubes sticking up in the air is a real eye sore..








Whats it making allready!

That's interesting - post some pics of your idea.
On a side note - the car did something it wouldn't do before except in the wet. With the 8v, a roll on 1st gear would only break loose in the wet. For the first time today I rolled on 1st @ about 3500 rpm, when it hits about 5500 rpm it starts breaking the fronts loose.







At WOT the car is also registering 100kpa intake pressure, so it's breathing very well.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

saw the engine in person today at the gtg looked freakin awesome wish i coulda heard it run!


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
25V Talladega manifold:
















 
Not sure what a Talladaga motor is - but those vac fitting look pretty neat.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_saw the engine in person today at the gtg looked freakin awesome wish i coulda heard it run!

Thanks - when I left I pulled it a little in first, if you were around you might have heard it, it's pretty quiet at idle.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

I took off before you did unfortunately







oh well Ill prob get to see it again at a later date.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Damnit Mendra, get it broken in, tuned, and beat the piss out of it on video. I want to see this thing move. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by ABF Jeff at 6:53 PM 11-5-2006_


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

DBLSVT!!! 







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## root beer (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

How's the tuning going?


----------



## independent77 (May 23, 2003)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_ 
Not sure what a Talladaga motor is - but those vac fitting look pretty neat.

















the whole story here.
http://www.audistory.24max.de/old1/etallade.htm


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (independent77)*

Thanks for the info - Let's compare the Audi 5v/cyl(5cyl) combustion chamber to the VW (4 cyl) 5v/cyl combustion chamber.
From the Audi 5cyl motor








The VW chamber


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

The Audi's 3 intake valves seem to be on the same plane where in the VW chamber the center intake is closer to parallel with the deck.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

It's running. It's broken in. Everyone in the North East has seen it pretty much. The oil has been changed. The rumors of the highway pulls are out there.
So....

_Quote, originally posted by *Atco Raceway* »_
FRI	17	4:30 PM Street & Grudge Racing	
SAT	18	10:00 AM	Tune & Test/Open to all cars	
TUE	21	4:30 PM Street & Grudge Racing	
FRI	24	4:30 PM Street & Grudge Racing Open To All Cars	
SAT	25	9:00 AM Tune & Test/Open to all Cars	
SUN	26	9:00 AM Pan American Sportsman Series	
SUN	26	10:00 AM	Gamblers Race & Import Bracket/Test & Tune	
TUE	28	4:30 PM Street & Grudge Racing


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_It's running. It's broken in. Everyone in the North East has seen it pretty much. The oil has been changed. The rumors of the highway pulls are out there.
So....
FRI 17 4:30 PM Street & Grudge Racing
SAT 18 10:00 AM Tune & Test/Open to all cars
TUE 21 4:30 PM Street & Grudge Racing 
FRI 24 4:30 PM Street & Grudge Racing Open To All Cars
SAT 25 9:00 AM Tune & Test/Open to all Cars -* definitely a possibility*
SUN 26 9:00 AM Pan American Sportsman Series
SUN 26 10:00 AM Gamblers Race & Import Bracket/Test & Tune *definitely a possibility*
TUE 28 4:30 PM Street & Grudge Racing









Everyone in the North East has seen it?? All stories about highway pulls are fictional material.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Who still has 15" 4lug wheels and a set of 22" slicks....

In the meantime.. DYNO, DYNO, DYNO, DYNO, DYNO, DYNO, DYNO, DYNO, DYNO...


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Hell, just swap the front rotors out real fast so the car could run my set up.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_Hell, just swap the front rotors out real fast so the car could run my set up.

+1


----------



## burnt63 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
All stories about highway pulls are fictional material.








oh really? haha, what were we doing on 95 that night you took me for a ride.....








side note, i still pulled on mendra off the line at a light.


----------



## burnt63 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_Hell, just swap the front rotors out real fast so the car could run my set up.
 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (burnt63)*


_Quote, originally posted by *burnt63* »_oh really? haha, what were we doing on 95 that night you took me for a ride.....








side note, i still pulled on mendra off the line at a light.

On 95 - were were merely checking to see the motor move through the rpm band in various gears.
Let's qualify that statement, you launched at a light and I spun like a mofo - lol.



_Modified by WolfGTI at 5:19 PM 11-18-2006_


----------



## burnt63 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
On 95 - were were merely checking to see the motor move through the rpm band in various gears.
Let's qualify that statement, you launched at a light and I spun like a mofo - lol.
_Modified by WolfGTI at 5:19 PM 11-18-2006_
haha.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_I spun like a mofo - lol.


You can't just hit the gas pedal and let the cluch take up all that slack anymore.


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

updates, man ..where are the updates?


----------



## myjettaisred (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: (passataholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *passataholic* »_updates, man ..where are the updates? 

x2


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_The Audi's 3 intake valves seem to be on the same plane where in the VW chamber the center intake is closer to parallel with the deck.

You have to remember the Talladega was where Audi developed the 5V/cylinder technology.This went into production when Yamaha was contracted to build the next generation (silvertop) 4A-GE in the early 90's.Audi only put the 5V/cyl technology to use in the 1997 Audi A4.It sucks that they did not make production inline-5 25V engines.


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (Wizard-of-OD)*

And Yamaha still uses 5 valve technology in every R1.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_SAT 25 9:00 AM Tune & Test/Open to all Cars - definitely a possibility
SUN 26 10:00 AM Gamblers Race & Import Bracket/Test & Tune definitely a possibility


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_SAT 25 - definitely a possibility
SUN 26 - definitely a possibility

Weather looks solid, in the mid 60's both days, don't miss this opportunity. x2


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
Weather looks solid, in the mid 60's both days, don't miss this opportunity. x2

That would be great - except I am running a mild fever and achy all over today - hopefully I can kick it for Sunday.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Aww come on, I was throwing up in the bathroom at Maplegrove as they called my class one day.
I still ran the car, my breath stunk like all hell... but I still ran it.


----------



## regrind (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_Aww come on, I was throwing up in the bathroom at Maplegrove as they called my class one day.
I still ran the car, my breath stunk like all hell... but I still ran it.









"stage three weight reduction"


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
That would be great - except I am running a mild fever and achy all over today - hopefully I can kick it for Sunday.









what mods did you do to run a mild fever?








you better? good. get a move on ..


----------



## GINCH (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: (passataholic)*

Wow Mendra!!! Great project man!! Like everyone else, I REALLY want to see a vid of you thrashing her the way its meant to be thrashed!!! Well done buddy!!! Big http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for a calgary car!!!








Cheers
Derek


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (GINCH)*

WolfGTI (mendra is it?) i have been keeping an eye on this thread and have read it all the way through!! this is something that i am seriously considering. i have a spare ABA block and am going to start doing some looking around for the AEB head (though i hear they are hard to come by).
i know you have posted quite a bit of info, but if it would not be too much of a bother, i would like to be able to contact you with questions as they may come up. i will try not to waist your time, but as you are one of the few people that completed this swap (and quite fantasticlt i might add!!) i figure you are THE person to talk to.















matt


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk3gti-usa* »_
i i figure you are THE person to talk to.















matt

he be the man. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*

I had several people help me along the way with advice etc - so whatever help I can be to you just let me know.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*

If you are seriously considering it, then make sure you read the 20v hybrid HowTo in the G60 Technical Forum. It is a long read, but everything is in there -> http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1674618
Just disregard anything about timing belts until you get to about page 19








As far as the AEB, it was my first choice and I found an ok deal on it, but I wouldn't dismiss a small port 20V head.
Shawn


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (sdezego)*

thanks guys!!!
this is one of the things i love the most about the VW people. everyone is willing to help, not so wrapped up in themselves that they cannot be bothered with giving a little time to other dubber!!!
you guys are the best!!
i am bookmarking that page and will deff be around with questions!!
thank
matt

ps, where the heck is the vid and the dyno runs??


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*

This thread is becoming "sticky worthy".








Mendra, lets get some numbers and vids for christ's sake!


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_This thread is becoming "sticky worthy".








Mendra, lets get some numbers and vids for christ's sake!









+1..........Jeff always takes my statements.


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (PBWB)*

mendra, when do i get to drive it?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*

Right after I do. My back still hurts from sitting hunched in the pass seat for three hours over the laptop.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Right after I do. My back still hurts from sitting hunched in the pass seat for three hours over the laptop.









Whiner


----------



## The Rice Cooker (Jan 13, 2004)

How many miles does it have now? I went out of my way to do some research and saw an older Gti in Europe with Itbs and 20v head putting down 210 to the wheels. It's exciting just to say that... from a 4 cylinder VW off boost! I'm really curious to see how much you'll make (knowing that's not all you care about since I see there are many things you could still do and have a daily driver). I'll wait and see though.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (The Rice Cooker)*

It has less than 4000 miles at present - somewhere around 2500 I think if IIRC. I would like to know what you think I can do and still have a daily driver. The car in the UK that you saw is Graham VanStone's car, it's a 1.8 N/A with 11:1 compression, 48mm ITB's and the same cams at I have. - yes he put something like [email protected] rpm to the wheels once it was dialed in.


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

you should have done a 1.8T swap


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*

If he wanted all motor power, he should have done a K20 swap on ITB's


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_If he wanted all motor power, he should have done a K20 swap on ITB's


True but too easy


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_...he put something like [email protected] rpm to the wheels once it was dialed in.

Just curious, do you know how they dynoed the car? Their dyno standard/practice is much different than how we do it over here. I have always wondered it that was a true 210whp engine or more like 175+/- whp engine. I have always thought the 2nd number would stand true. 


_Modified by billyVR6 at 12:06 PM 12-11-2006_


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

You're right...good point. The Brits all go by BHP. They refer everything as Brake where we refer to it a s wheel.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

I forget exactly how they do it, but they just all together dyno differently.
Still, a 175whp MK1 chassis is a quite a little mean machine to deal with that's for sure.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_I forget exactly how they do it, but they just all together dyno differently.
Still, a 175whp MK1 chassis is a quite a little mean machine to deal with that's for sure. 

Lol...ya...Gixxer Kart!!


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

Curious as to why you think it's a 175hp machine - what did you base that off of? And to answer your question - no I do not know how they dynoed it.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

I am using some basic convertion numbers that hold pretty true (within reason) when comparing other non-20v engines with similar builds (bhp/ps vs. whp). It helps when you know what some other 20v engines have made here in the U.S., then take into account a few variations in engine build/spec, gives you a general idea of where things are at.
If you can find out the weight of the car w/ driver we could nail it for sure based off of 1/4 mile and MPH results from the car.


_Modified by billyVR6 at 3:52 PM 12-11-2006_


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


----------



## pumpkin02 (Oct 26, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_I would like to know what you think I can do and still have a daily driver.

I concur with Emile. 1.8T rules!!


----------



## The Rice Cooker (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

I thought somewhere you wrote that you decided not to port the head and that it was only clearanced to accomodate the cam... that's what I was referring to mainly with the whole daily driver thing. Now I remember you said with just the 8v and big cam your power went from like 105 to 122, so I'm saying if this game we're playing... well just you, is all about flowing the air (hence 20vs instead of 8vs) if you were to get the head done all crazy oversize, port blah... you might squeeze out more, but I was simply mentioning that you had maxxed out the car when I said you could still do more things to it, I'm hoping for some numbers to make me smile. oh and btw 8500 rpms is kinda scary for me being an 8valver... 7K is plenty... I'd be scared for a while to hurt my investment.


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (The Rice Cooker)*

mendra
so i am thinking more and more about doing this, although i know th FI is the way to get big power. i know that i would not be able to get big power without going through everything as you did. i am thinking of "bolting on" one to my aba with no other mods, then taking my time to build the spare block i have, .30 over, pistons con rods, lightened crank etc. without going overboard. figure that with a 20V head, i can always get a stock 1.8t turbo if i want to start sqeezing more power out of it.
what kind of results will i see with just "bolting it on"?
what kind of power is the aba able to handle without becoming a time bomb?
if i am thinking of going FI, think it would be better to just save up and start with a 1.8t?
would kind of like to try and get the power out of the aba so as not to have to deal with the hassle of a swap.
what do you think??
thanks!!








matt


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

YEAR IS ALMOST UP.
WHERE IS MY DYNO SHEET?
page ownage


----------



## Rat4Life (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

wow great build up, I've seen your car at toys for tots wish i heard it running. great job http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_WHERE IS MY DYNO SHEET?


I'm the hold up here, it's hard to find a free Saturday.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
I'm the hold up here, it's hard to find a free Saturday.









As soon as you are ready Pablo


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

hosspowahs. needs da hosspowahs.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

NGP can't dyno the car before Jan - so I've booked Sat Jan 13th for some dyno time. Videos will be made - hope it turns out well.


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

I'll be eagerly awaiting those vids http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








How's she been running?


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_NGP can't dyno the car before Jan - so I've booked Sat Jan 13th for some dyno time. Videos will be made - hope it turns out well. 

so that will be a good late Xmas present then, finding out those numbers










_Modified by WolfGTI at 1:33 PM 12-20-2006_


----------



## pumpkin02 (Oct 26, 1999)

*Re: (passataholic)*

Merry Christmas ABE!!









Oh...you too Mendra.


----------



## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

@WolfGTI: AWESOME project engine !
After reading all 11pages, which rpm redline did you end up with ? A friend of mine has this setup, mechanical head, in a body 3 road race Golf.
his redline is set at 9000rpm. Engine got over-revved to 10k rpm in one race, after stripping the engine, no internal damage










car's for sale btw...



















_Modified by A3dOUde at 11:09 AM 12-27-2006_


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (A3dOUde)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A3dOUde* »_@WolfGTI: AWESOME project engine !
After reading all 11pages, which rpm redline did you end up with ? A friend of mine has this setup, mechanical head, in a body 3 road race Golf.
his redline is set at 9000rpm. Engine got over-revved to 10k rpm in one race, after stripping the engine, no internal damage









car's for sale btw...
_Modified by A3dOUde at 11:09 AM 12-27-2006_

Yeah - I've heard about that cara - it's sick. The redline I am using presently is 7500rpm - we'll see when we dyno the car if it makes sense going much beyond that as I am on a hydro head versus a mechanical head.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (A3dOUde)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A3dOUde* »_A friend of mine has this setup..

If Yves is your buddy, try to get another dyno chart that shows it's full top end curve.
This is the only dyno I have seen for that engine, it cuts out at about 7K RPM.


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


----------



## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

192 WHEEL HP... NA ??!!










_Modified by redzone98 at 1:03 PM 12-28-2006_


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (redzone98)*

Judging from the last two responses I guess some of you will **** your pants if you saw Race 101's dyno charts.


----------



## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

I'll try to see with him...
I know that on chris Tapp's dyno they pulled out 198whp... And shifting at 9000rpm, the gear drop comes down to around 7000rpm 
little youtube vid's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=490pqytRESk 


_Modified by A3dOUde at 11:49 AM 12-28-2006_


----------



## yves20v (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: (A3dOUde)*

Hi Guys!
This dyno is from my first version of this engine. It had Catcams hydraulic valvetrain.
For the 2006 season a had a new dogbox transmission and I decided to sacrifice torque for HP. I had the Catcams mechanical valvetrain conversion installed and been able to get 198 whp but lost lot of torque. The main reason fot that is that I had to run the car on pump gaz so the CR is only 11:1. With 12:1 or 13:1 the powerband would be lower and I would get back a lot of my lost torque and make more power I'm pretty sure!
The 20v heads have the highest flow numbers for a VW head but they make power way higher in RPMs than a 16v even with mild cams.
Here's the latest Dynosheet and engine bay picture. I know the curve is cutted to the peak but that's how the Tapp dynosheet printout is. Any way the curve is dropping fairly fast after this point. 
















_Modified by yves20v at 1:27 PM 12-30-2006_

_Modified by yves20v at 1:28 PM 12-30-2006_

_Modified by yves20v at 1:35 PM 12-30-2006_


_Modified by yves20v at 1:37 PM 12-30-2006_


----------



## Rat4Life (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (A3dOUde)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A3dOUde* »_I'll try to see with him...
I know that on chris Tapp's dyno they pulled out 198whp... And shifting at 9000rpm, the gear drop comes down to around 7000rpm 
little youtube vid's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=490pqytRESk 

_Modified by A3dOUde at 11:49 AM 12-28-2006_

wow nice video! 
great car control, i like it where driver didn't loose the car on the last turn


----------



## G-K-R (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (Rat4Life)*

I don't mean to jack the thread, here is some real nice tarmac rally driving. Mark Higgins is driving and explaining the stage to a new codriver while driving in the actual rally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYUlNXwJ8fY



_Modified by DuBenforcer at 7:34 PM 12-30-2006_


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (yves20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yves20v* »_Here's the latest Dynosheet and engine bay picture.

Mustang dyno, that's pretty impressive if it's solid, I guess it all depends on the dyno in reality. Still, that's great from a low/lower compression engine set up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I see you changed the air box set up, any impressions/improvement?
Bill


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (yves20v)*

Hi,where did you get this ITB set up from?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Hi,where did you get this ITB set up from?









Correct me if I am wrong - but it looks like there are 2 banks of injectors, is this so? I assume if it is then you have one set for low rpm operation and another for hi end rpm?


----------



## yves20v (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

For BillyVR6:
Yes I changed the whole intake and made myself a fiberglass airbox to meet series regulation. I can't say much about a difference because I did the new intake and the mechanical lifters conversion at the same time.
For Wiz:
I made it myself with a big port ADR 20v lower intake manifold bought from rhussjr here on VWVortex. I welded runners of a TWM induction ITB intake on it and matched ported everything smooth.
For WolfGTI:
Yes I installed 8 injectors because I sometimes have to stay a while with engine at idle on fasle grid and I had some problems at the beginning with fuel stuck in the intake runners. It washed cylinders because they were too far from the valves at idle. So now the injectors switch at 2600 rpms. I tried different rpms switch but I had no gain. So I kept them only for idle at pits. 
While I'm there I just want to say it's great to see I'm not the only weirdo to have interest in 20v hybrids! Good job! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
BTW, I wish you all guys a happy new year!
Here's another small clip of my car, same car as the clip above you will hear my version of the 20v!








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEClI_O0DlU



_Modified by yves20v at 11:58 AM 12-31-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (yves20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yves20v* »_I made it myself with a big port ADR 20v lower intake manifold bought from rhussjr here on VWVortex. I welded runners of a TWM induction ITB intake on it and matched ported everything smooth.

hmm same thing I did http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## yves20v (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Well there is not much available for N/A 20v around here! We have to be creative!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (yves20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yves20v* »_Well there is not much available for N/A 20v around here! We have to be creative!









Tell me about it...


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
hmm same thing I did http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Tell me about it...









That's one of Jim's (Racecraft) 20v configurations.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_That's one of Jim's (Racecraft) 20v configurations.

That is correct.Jim welded the 4A-GE throttle body flanges onto my ADR lower intake manifold,ported the manifold and sanded the welds.Looked OEM when it was done.


----------



## RideVR6 (May 28, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Nice job all, just tuned in. Cant wait for the Dyno in a couple weeks!


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (RideVR6)*

where is the dyno?? should be coming soon right??


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*

Once I find the time to go.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Once I find the time to go.

LOL


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

why did you LOL? 
where's your dyno sheet? 
p.s-








beep


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (passataholic)*

come on man!! no videos or nothing for us waiting in suspense???


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*

Wow what an impatient lot.
Here's the dyno sheet 172.4 hp to the wheels and 144 lb/ft to the wheels = 193hp 
and 162 lb/ft to the crank using 12% driveline loss.
Initial run was 161.1hp and 130 tq at the wheels. After some AFR tuning and some ign tuning. Will be back dynoing after the header goes on.




_Modified by WolfGTI at 5:03 PM 1-13-2007_


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Whats up with that huge a/f dip? 

As for the power output. Im going to be nice and not even comment.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_Whats up with that huge a/f dip? 

As for the power output. Im going to be nice and not even comment. 

The a/f dip has us puzzled as well - it's as though there's air velocity loss momentarily when the throttles go WOT - we tried leaning it out and it still hung around, I know you are of the opinion that a turboe'd car would make more power and I know for a fact that built N/A Honda motors are making far more power of course their heads flow even more air than a 20v does - but at least I know what I am presently - there are still some things I will be looking at exploring before I consider this experiment finished. Your thoughts are appreciated though. I was hoping for 200 at the crank, I got 193 - so I am ok with it so far.


_Modified by WolfGTI at 5:21 PM 1-13-2007_


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Mendra, you have a fair bit more tuning to do... that graph looks like it's running on Neuspeed software, for christ's sake.









Get the AFR in line, and add some more timing, you've got another 15hp in there, I know it.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Mendra, you have a fair bit more tuning to do... that graph looks like it's running on Neuspeed software, for christ's sake.









Get the AFR in line, and add some more timing, you've got another 15hp in there, I know it.

Gonna work on it - but dyno time costs $$ - remember this was a 1st tuning session - there will be others. I know it's still pretty rough.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

A little video folks. <sigh>
http://video.google.com/videop...36335


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_A little video folks. <sigh>
http://video.google.com/videop...36335 

Those bells sure ring! I love it... BTW, sounds like the dyno guy is having trouble driving a stick.


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
The a/f dip has us puzzled as well - it's as though there's air velocity loss momentarily when the throttles go WOT - we tried leaning it out and it still hung around, I know you are of the opinion that a turboe'd car would make more power and I know for a fact that built N/A Honda motors are making far more power of course their heads flow even more air than a 20v does - but at least I know what I am presently - there are still some things I will be looking at exploring before I consider this experiment finished. Your thoughts are appreciated though. I was hoping for 200 at the crank, I got 193 - so I am ok with it so far.

_Modified by WolfGTI at 5:21 PM 1-13-2007_


I wasnt going to compare your engine to another manufacturer or even to a boosted car. I was going to compare the amount of money you spent to make the power that modified stock block VR's can put down.
As for the power output, Its about what I expected from this set up on pump gas. I was hoping for more but that didnt happen...yet.
I can see maybe another 8-10whp with some better tuning. 
With the a/f ratio, was it a probe in the tailpipe or placed into the exhaust stream via o2 bung?
PS: I love the placement of the IAT sensor.










_Modified by Band-Aid at 6:32 PM 1-13-2007_


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_

I wasnt going to compare your engine to another manufacturer or even to a boosted car. I was going to compare the amount of money you spent to make the power that modified stock block VR's can put down.
As for the power output, Its about what I expected from this set up on pump gas. I was hoping for more but that didnt happen...yet.
I can see maybe another 8-10whp with some better tuning. 
With the a/f ratio, was it a probe in the tailpipe or placed into the exhaust stream via o2 bung?

Tailpipe sniffer was used for the dyno - I have my own wideband for the management system. You're right a stock block VR could make this power with bolt ons, but I am not trying to be the most powerful VW motor on the planet. This buildup was never about hp/$$$ spent, if that was the case, I know I could have spent this $$$ differently and be sitting with a 400 hp motor. If you have ideas on getting the tune sorted let me know.










_Modified by WolfGTI at 6:34 PM 1-13-2007_


----------



## urogolf (Dec 10, 2000)

NICE
dunno if it makes a difference or not but some people have better luck dynoing in 4th gear than 3rd and vice versa..


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (urogolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *urogolf* »_NICE
dunno if it makes a difference or not but some people have better luck dynoing in 4th gear than 3rd and vice versa..

Runs were done in 4th gear







.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Why did you run in 4th, just for kicks? I know it's the closest to 1:1 ratio, but is that necessarily a good thing on an NA car?


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Ive seen those weird dips and a/f charts in the past from tailpipe sniffers. They usually get condensation in the "box" that contains the o2 sensor and this fouls up the readings pretty bad. Then if you have the slightest exhaust leak, that can also throw off readings. Catalyst will also alter a/f ratios to the sensor slightly. (Reads leaner)
Best thing to do is install a bung at the header's collector and have the dyno install their sensor there.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Mendra, you have a fair bit more tuning to do... that graph looks like it's running on Neuspeed software, for christ's sake.









Get the AFR in line, and add some more timing, you've got another 15hp in there, I know it.

There sure isn't another 15hp in it as it sits, especially without playing with the cam gear. Race gas will make a big difference. 
I was chasing my tail a bit with the first few pulls until I realized the tailpipe sniffer was lagging about 500rpm. At that point I just concentrated from tq peak on up to try and make a number. Got the a/f pretty flat from there out and left it. No real change (+/- 2whp) playing with top end a/f. 
Made a decent power from adding more timing but it didn't make any more from 33+ so I left it there. 
The hardest part of tuning was using Mendra's laptop with the windows bar at the top.. haha.







Unfortunately I just ran out of time to do more fine tuning today.
Lets just say this isn't the easiest setup to tune! The daily status and 'gas mileage' requirements leave a lot of the VE bins used up in lower rpm so it's not easy to smooth. I'm sure it could be brought into check with some more street pulls but this motor likes ~13:1 a/f and more timing then I had originally though would be possible. 
I think there's a lot of 2-5k work to be done at wot, but that can easily be tuned on the street with datalogging. Switching from speed density to a blended alpha setup will open up a few tuning points in the mids for up top. 
One thing that was strange during the dyno was that there was a 'fuel cloud' in front of the throttles up top. I stunk like gas when I got home and it wasn't fun. I think we were fighting the ADR exhaust manifold a bit with reversion up top. Header should make that a lot better. I would like to eventually measure exhaust backpressure, but good luck looking at that gauge with the car doing pulls.








Honestly for a first dyno tune I think the day was sucessful and the car made decent power. 
Anyway that's my $.02 but with the power there's an easy 13sec pass in it, which for a 'heavy' 4cyl VW won't be too shabby.
{edit}
We did all the runs in 4th because I've always done all my dynos in 4th. Shouldn't make much of a difference in an NA car.


_Modified by need_a_VR6 at 11:28 PM 1-13-2007_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Nice. There is definitely more potential there for sure.
1.) What was your overall timing that you ended up with and do you feel your maxed out the timing or is there more to be had with more dyno/tuning time? It's tough on the dyno because timing affects fuel etc, so changes can cause you chasing your tail.
2.) The A/F dips are peculiar and it is easy to see they are affecting your numbers. Especially down low-mid.
As far as the tailpipe sniffer, I do not trust them. My last dyno runs were logged on my LMA1/Aux box and they were off from the sniffer. I have a cat, so that definitely accounts for some incorrect data. I know my WBO2 was/is on the money. Again, looking at the Hp/TQ curves, they seem to correspond with rich spots.
3.) What header are you planning on? A full custom or something similar to what I am doing with a 9A? I am sure that you can get a good 10-15 whp alone with a good Long tube header at the rpms you are running, but that is just me projecting. I am sure that factory AGN setup flows very well, but it is designed for more torque lower down.
4.) What Wide band do you have and are you able to log A/F as well as EGT's? I know you are running MS, but just curious as to your tuning logs before the Dyno.
I bet the car is a blast to drive.








Shawn


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (sdezego)*

1) 33deg from about 3500 on up, I'd have to look at the msq to be sure. Didn't gain anything from more. No signs of detonation.
2) The way the motor was behaving it was like it had two torque peaks, very strange. It might have been one of the enrichments kicking in and causing problems, I didn't turn them off before the pulls and didn't even think about them when we were there. The in car LC1 was about .5pt a/f richer then the dyno, off but not too far. There wasn't much to be gained or lost on a/f on this motor up top where it's fairly flat. No cat on this one. 
3) Full custom, the ports on the manifold used are pretty small. 
4) LC1 was used, no EGT, we did some logs, but you need MSLVV to look at them. Perhaps Mendra can post one later. 
Biggest problem is that all the resolution in rpm was being eaten up by cruise load points. I didn't want to screw with that much because I knew Mendra spent a long time trying to get 30+mpg again


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
Biggest problem is that all the resolution in rpm was being eaten up by cruise load points. I didn't want to screw with that much because I knew Mendra spent a long time trying to get 30+mpg again
















I have never tried to tune ITBs, so I have know idea what you guys are up against. That coupled with those cams can't be easy.
Nice work thus far.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (sdezego)*

After this I think I could tune a manifold car fully in about 12 minutes.


----------



## WanganLLama (Apr 15, 2004)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

what gas was it dynoed on? if it were me i guess the first thing i'd do is put the injectors in the factory position, i'd be willing to bet that a lot is ending up on the walls of the intake manifold/head. 7-8k rpm dosn't really require any more time than stock for the fuel to atomize. i wouldn't be supprised if that would be part of the fuel cloud (which sounds really safe by the way, you know, for a street car...) and the weirdness in the af line. 
other than that, and header and the o2 in a proper position should definatly give some better #'s


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WanganLLama)*

Gas was 93 octane Sunoco pump gas. The injectors are fine where they are, the car was dynoed open, normally has the filters that would contain the fuel cloud. The funny a/f was just a lack of resolution where we needed it I don't think it's inherent in the setup.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Good stuff Mr. Paul. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Gas was 93 octane Sunoco pump gas. The injectors are fine where they are, the car was dynoed open, normally has the filters that would contain the fuel cloud. The funny a/f was just a lack of resolution where we needed it I don't think it's inherent in the setup.

I think the fuel cloud could be reversion due to restriction of the OEM manifold, I have been doing some reading on it - well tomorrow I'll find out how soon I can get the header done.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Just for the record, you need to start resizing your web images before posting!!!


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

i am curious to see those spark/fuel maps in comparison from first run to second run. i remember seeing some of your old settings in the SEM forum and you were running a large block of high timing then...


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

I see your peak power is just around 6800, but it holds strong to just after 7200.
There could be a shift point or two in there that you will have to test out before you nail it down.
What is you limiter set at now?
Also, where were you shifting it at the last time out at the track?


_Modified by billyVR6 at 11:40 AM 1-15-2007_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

The fuel map is still pretty retarded before 5k not much to see there but a big mess. 
Timing adjustment was limited to going from 28deg 98-100kpa up to 33deg 98-100kpa and doing some smoothing into the lower bins. I didn't play with the advance before 3k so there might be a little more in it down low also.


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_I didn't play with the advance before 3k so there might be a little more in it down low also.

i am tuning my 16v with bike itb and noticed a big improvement coming off idle by adding more timing in the lower rpm/higher kpa ranges. i know there are large differences between our motors as mine is mostly stock with cams and header etc, but it may be worth looking into. 
it wont really show on the dyno obviously, but may help on the track since it sounds like he has done the 1/4 mile.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

Limiter is @ 7600 - I was shifting @ 7k when I messed around at the track.


----------



## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

nice numbers man ! 
can't wait to see with more tuning what gain you'll be able to get !
Can't wait to have my n/a ABA16v dynotuned


----------



## regrind (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_After this I think I could tune a manifold car fully in about 12 minutes.









is this where I should mention I have a stopwatch at my garage?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (regrind)*


_Quote, originally posted by *regrind* »_
is this where I should mention I have a stopwatch at my garage?









Bring it, I'll just set you up for autotune and meet you at the dyno.


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

stock block VR or boost ..heck.. even Nawz.. pssht.
nice work..http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif its your money, your time, your project. go nuts with it! at least you can say you had fun with it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








nice job. so my question is..how reliable is this motor now? 

good stuff man. I'm proud. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (passataholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *passataholic* »_stock block VR or boost ..heck.. even Nawz.. pssht.
nice work..http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif its your money, your time, your project. go nuts with it! at least you can say you had fun with it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








nice job. so my question is..how reliable is this motor now? 

good stuff man. I'm proud. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


So far very reilable - starts in below freezing temps and apart from small issues because of figuring stuff as I go, the motor has been a gem.


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_

So far very reilable - starts in below freezing temps and apart from small issues because of figuring stuff as I go, the motor has been a gem.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Like the bad crank evac check valve?


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

is 12% drivetrain loss right?? what kinda tranny setup are you running?


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*

VW's have more like a 8-9% drivetrain loss through an 020.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_VW's have more like a 8-9% drivetrain loss through an 020.

That would be nice - but I am running with an O2A- NGP says 12% is a good rule of thumb for the 02A.


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

sorry that doesnt add up...after looking at various dyno charts they all point to a 15-18% loss...and yes i realize that dynos have a multitude of variables to consider but numbers dont lie....


----------



## The Rice Cooker (Jan 13, 2004)

Gone for 2 weeks and I missed the good part. Well I'm glad to see you made more than 190bhp, much more than 115, regardless of how much power it makes I'm sure it's a blast to drive. Green with envy man...


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_q_jet* »_...after looking at various dyno charts they all point to a 15-18% loss.

15-18% is for wishful thinking dyno queens.








If all the business is at the wheels, one needs to not look any further than that.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_q_jet* »_sorry that doesnt add up...after looking at various dyno charts they all point to a 15-18% loss...and yes i realize that dynos have a multitude of variables to consider but numbers dont lie....

Ok - I made 172.4 hp to the wheels and 144.7 lb/ft
Using 18% drivetrain loss - I am making 203.4hp and 170.7 lb/ft at the crank
Using 15% drivetrain loss - I am making 198.2hp and 166.4 lb/ft at the crank
Using 12% drivetrain loss - I am making 193.0hp and 162.0 lb/ft at the crank. 
Slice it and dice it however you want I am pretty sure I have over 190 hp at the crank presently, we'll see how far this road takes me.


----------



## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

certainly these are good numbers







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
15-18% is for wishful thinking dyno queens.








If all the business is at the wheels, one needs to not look any further than that.


well i'm jus tryin to get some hard fact as to how much a vw tranny TRULY LOSES?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_q_jet* »_well i'm jus tryin to get some hard fact as to how much a vw tranny TRULY LOSES?

The only correct way would be to put it on an engine dyno, and then a chassis dyno without changing ANYTHING. That's a bit hard. 
Using the drag calculator this motor only makes 150 @ the flywheel and I believe it.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
The only correct way would be to put it on an engine dyno, and then a chassis dyno without changing ANYTHING. That's a bit hard. 
Using the drag calculator this motor only makes 150 @ the flywheel and I believe it.









Which motor - goddamn clown.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Which motor - goddamn clown. 

Based on traps, both







You need a driver, miss daisy.


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


----------



## pumpkin02 (Oct 26, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
miss daisy.


Ouch. Does that burn sting a little?


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (pumpkin02)*

time for another vid.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_You need a driver, miss daisy.

That's a pretty funny quote.
Anyway, driver here and ready. All I need is the owner of the car sign a disclaimer before I get behind the wheel.


----------



## burnt63 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
That's a pretty funny quote.
Anyway, driver here and ready. All I need is the owner of the car sign a disclaimer before I get behind the wheel.








 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (burnt63)*

Does anyone still have some 22x8x15's I have a set of 15x7's that should clear his bigass brakes.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

I keep forgetting he has the big brakes, I was about to mention again that my 13x8's Welds are available for the carnage. I have a set of Rota's I am picking up this week but they have decent tires on them. So I am looking around for two spares to mount either d-radials or some MT22's, not sure yet.


_Modified by billyVR6 at 5:11 PM 1-25-2007_


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

great job mendra!!!
numbers do not really mean much, just if you like it or not is the only thing that matters. and it sounds like you are lliking it!!!


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

I got a spare set of 13x6's if you want to try the M&H 205/60/13 DOT's.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Ok - I made 172.4 hp to the wheels and 144.7 lb/ft
Using 18% drivetrain loss - I am making 203.4hp and 170.7 lb/ft at the crank
Using 15% drivetrain loss - I am making 198.2hp and 166.4 lb/ft at the crank
Using 12% drivetrain loss - I am making 193.0hp and 162.0 lb/ft at the crank. 
Slice it and dice it however you want I am pretty sure I have over 190 hp at the crank presently, we'll see how far this road takes me.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Who measures hp at the crank anymore? IMO it doesn't matter, what you put to the ground is what counts.


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_Who measures hp at the crank anymore? IMO it doesn't matter, what you put to the ground is what counts.


Even then, dyno's are just for tuning. Comparing numbers is really pointless.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_

Even then, dyno's are just for tuning. Comparing numbers is really pointless.

X2 - What counts is your baseline versus your post modification #'s on the same dyno.


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

put a big turbo on that thing


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A1Crazy* »_put a big turbo on that thing

Lol too easy.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Lol too easy. 

Damn straight. I'm looking forward to some more tuning with the header and the crankcase breather working properly. You should get that slacker to finish your new ecu as well.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
X2 - What counts is your baseline versus your post modification #'s on the same dyno. 

True dat!


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (PBWB)*

race to redline.


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (passataholic)*

get one of these


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A1Crazy* »_get one of these









Based on all the issues you have had with your motor - not sure I am that easily persuaded.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Based on all the issues you have had with your motor - not sure I am that easily persuaded.

Looks like it's too small.


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
Looks like it's too small.

it's one of those fancy K03 "sport"s I think


----------



## fmly8vgti (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
Based on traps, both







You need a driver, miss daisy.

x2


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (fmly8vgti)*

more vids? more pics? more info? updates, man. updates.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (passataholic)*

I still smell like gasoline from the dyno day. That's like an update, right?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_I still smell like gasoline from the dyno day. That's like an update, right?

Wait till the new ITB's and header are on and we head to dyno again


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Wait till the new ITB's and header are on and we head to dyno again









Gasmask. Check.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Here's some header buildup pics.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Ballin, mendra, ballin.
What are the new ITB's? Going bigger?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

It's funny how big the 1-3/4" primaries look compared to the stock manifold. Looking good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

what the f is wrong with your camera mendra?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A1Crazy* »_what the f is wrong with your camera mendra?

Low batteries -









_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Ballin, mendra, ballin.
What are the new ITB's? Going bigger?

Go big or go home


----------



## independent77 (May 23, 2003)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

is that a mk2 (2.0) manifold with a modified 'plate' for mounting?[the old setup]


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: (independent77)*


_Quote, originally posted by *independent77* »_is that a mk2 (2.0) manifold with a modified 'plate' for mounting?[the old setup]

thats a stock 20v N/A manifold


----------



## independent77 (May 23, 2003)

*Re: (A1Crazy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A1Crazy* »_
thats a stock 20v N/A manifold

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (independent77)*

that header is going to be sick!!!
cant wait to hear some noise from it!!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## KESET (Sep 1, 2001)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*

looking good mendra








you coming out friday night?


----------



## burnt63 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: (KESET)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

wow!! them's some headers!!! 
all that money in the motor..no money in the camera. tsk.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (passataholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *passataholic* »_wow!! them's some headers!!! 
all that money in the motor..no money in the camera. tsk.









Idiot younger brother.


----------



## WanganLLama (Apr 15, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

i think you should bin that collector and get one from burns stainless (granted they arn't cheap). other than that it looks pimp http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (WanganLLama)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WanganLLama* »_i think you should bin that collector and get one from burns stainless (granted they arn't cheap). other than that it looks pimp http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

What you see there is not the complete collector - there will be all 4 pipes merging to form a merge cone / flow cone inside the collector, the header is mild steel so it won't expand and crack as easily and it will be coated when done.


----------



## WanganLLama (Apr 15, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

ah. i ment burns stainless the company, not that it should be stainless steel. props on fabricating everything!


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WanganLLama)*

Those collectors are nice, for $310-350 for 1.875" collector I would want to be 110% sure that any gain/performance would justify that cost.
They are a good company, great products though, I contacted them looking for advice about adding a bolt on megaphone/reverse cone to an already existing header.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

Its so sad this is in a 4 door golf








Wouldve been nice to see that engine in something like this:








How are you doing the ITB's Mendra?I cant seem to find a set anywhere other than the ones I built.You know of a company that has a complete built up to the head ordeal?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Its so sad this is in a 4 door golf








Wouldve been nice to see that engine in something like this:








How are you doing the ITB's Mendra?I cant seem to find a set anywhere other than the ones I built.You know of a company that has a complete built up to the head ordeal?

Jettas weight more than Golfs.







You lost me with the question - you are wondering how my ITBs are mounted to the head?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_you are wondering how my ITBs are mounted to the head? 


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Wait till the new ITB's

Are they all in one cast units like the Jenvey 16V units?


----------



## Gloktimus Prime (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Are they all in one cast units like the Jenvey 16V units?

The ones I presently have are 4 separate TB's with a common linkage.
The new ones are the Jenvey TH series


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

that engine WOULD be sweet in a Jetta ..*cough cough*ahem*








so..when are we getting another vid clip?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (passataholic)*

No more video until after the header and TB's are in the car.


----------



## The Rice Cooker (Jan 13, 2004)

Is this bad boy coming to SFLG2G or no?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (The Rice Cooker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Rice Cooker* »_Is this bad boy coming to SFLG2G or no?

Getting close - I am supposed to but things don't always got as they should - we'll see.


----------



## Sandlock (Aug 10, 2001)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

sweet im all caught up in a couple pages







gluck with the new tb setup


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Sandlock)*

Here's some header shots immediately before sending it out to get coated.








































It should be back from Jet-Hot mid week next week - hoping for install next weekend.



_Modified by WolfGTI at 6:15 PM 3-7-2007_


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

beautiful work looks great!


----------



## urogolf (Dec 10, 2000)

WOW
AWESOME WORK


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Damn!!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

that's a piece of art ! WOW


----------



## RideVR6 (May 28, 2002)

*Re: (A3dOUde)*

Holy **** those look good.


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (RideVR6)*

crazy! i can imagine your sound.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (RideVR6)*

Wooo hoo - tracking # received for the new ITB's - I'm like a kid @ Xmas.


----------



## urogolf (Dec 10, 2000)

saaaweeet!! header comes back this week too right?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (urogolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *urogolf* »_saaaweeet!! header comes back this week too right?

That's what is supposed to happen - I am hoping for a Saturday install for the header and maybe the new ITB's.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Call me when you get it all in there. Leave a message with some sounds.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Call me when you get it all in there. Leave a message with some sounds.









LOL - your mission when you return from Germany is to wire up the idle control stuff - so lmk know as soon as you get back and settle in







.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Leave a message with some sounds.









If he doesn't get to it this weekend and you want sounds, I can put this little 6 month old fellow on the phone and let him bable some "da da da ba ba ba ba" for a few minutes.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
If he doesn't get to it this weekend and you want sounds, I can put this little 6 month old fellow on the phone and let him bable some "da da da ba ba ba ba" for a few minutes.









Lol - Billy when you gonna bring the young man out to breathe some gas fumes at the track ?


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

I will have him with me at the S&G if it is nice weather.
I gotta spend a lot of time in the swap meet looking for misc. odds and ends.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

You're way late, we had the little one to Cecil before she could even wear shoes. Which was oddly appropriate.


----------



## pumpkin02 (Oct 26, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Well it's Saturday. Are the parts on the car or what??
Come on Mendra, your fan club is dying to hear!!


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (pumpkin02)*

Header is not on, didn't arrive from Jet-hot







, but next Sat is already booked for the install.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Well this project has somewhat taught me patience - however Jet-hot informed me that they only shipped the header today so unless it's a miracle I won't be installing it Sat,














however the 48's are getting put on Friday.


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

bummer. i think there are alot of us that are almost as disapointed as you are


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

What series coating did you get?
I just noticed they coat in a few colors now, I got my eye set on Copperhead.








P.S., Jet Hot is still in PA still right???
If it shipped, it should get to you or to Joe's by Friday...



_Modified by billyVR6 at 2:18 AM 3-22-2007_


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

Billy - The Jet-hot coating facility in PA burned down a couple years ago, they are about to re-open it, but I don't think it's open yet. I am still hopeful that the header will arrive in time. I got the header coated in extreme sterling.

EDIT - example of extreme sterling finish on a V8 header.










_Modified by WolfGTI at 11:41 AM 3-22-2007_


----------



## pumpkin02 (Oct 26, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Hey, that doesn't look like it will fit your car too well.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Billy - The Jet-hot coating facility in PA burned down a couple years ago...

No ****, how did I not here about that, maybe I did....
anyway, I wonder how long some of those high temp coatings lasted in the fire?!


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_










thats HOT








yes, pun intended


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*

hows it run with the 48's on there in comparison to the 45's?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk2dubbin* »_hows it run with the 48's on there in comparison to the 45's?

It's got more top end and seemingly more "instant snap" to it. It's definitely different - but I have to re-tweak the map since the AFR is all goofy in certain spots.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Would be nice to get it on the rollers again before the header goes on.
See where you are at with the new TB's, check valves fixed, etc., etc.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_Would be nice to get it on the rollers again before the header goes on.
See where you are at with the new TB's, check valves fixed, etc., etc. 

While that would be nice, it won't happen because of time constraints plus practicality and $$$. I can tell you since I drive it every day, it's definitely snappier plus the traction issues @ WOT are starting off much lower down in the rpm band now.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

googd deal.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

This car ready to make 199.996whp and run a 14.0006?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_This car ready to make 199.996whp and run a 14.0006?










Stop it.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

I'm just hoping that with the header I'm not flammable after the dyno.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Header is at the fab shop - we are go for install on Sat, this is what it looks like now.
Header was made by Seamless Motorsports in Lansdale PA.


















_Modified by WolfGTI at 1:49 PM 1-21-2009_


----------



## urogolf (Dec 10, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

allow me to be the first


























































uber impressive


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: (urogolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *urogolf* »_allow me to be the first


























































uber impressive

X2 That looks awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Rat4Life (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (Kabinotar)*

Wow Great headers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

Damn that is sick. I want one. Makes me wanna drop the turbo project


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_This car ready to make 199.996whp and run a 14.0006?









That was pretty funny.








My header showed up two days ago, looks just like that... but totally different.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Header is at the fab shop - we are go for install on Sat, this is what it looks like now.








Good God Man!!!


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (sdezego)*
















SWEET!!! looks sick!!!


----------



## PeruEuro (Dec 28, 2006)

Nice project-
That manifold looks pro.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (PeruEuro)*

Thanks for all the compliments - the header is on and my observations are as follows. The fuel map is .3 - 1 full point leaner in many places. The car is much louder - on the intake side, there is roar that is almost embarrassingly loud, so the motor is definitely pumping more air.


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

more air means MORE power! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif now you just have to retune it.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ps2375)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ps2375* »_more air means MORE power! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif now you just have to retune it.

More air means leaner... more air and more fuel means more power.
GET THAT THING TUNED AND LETS GET SOME NUMBERS!


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

well, yah, that's what I meant to say.once he retunes it. you know what I meant.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ps2375)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ps2375* »_well, yah, that's what I meant to say.once he retunes it. you know what I meant.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
















I know, some noobs might not. A lot of guys are using Mendra's build as the 20/20 bible, can't hurt to have any good info in it.
Video was promised sunday, you've 22 hours to deliver, boss... I've got my popcorn ready!


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

what he said!! And please try to have some nice audio to go with it.LOL







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif (from both ends)








(hope that doesn't sound TOO demanding, cause as you know we're not like that on the vortex)










_Modified by ps2375 at 5:56 AM 4-1-2007_


----------



## pumpkin02 (Oct 26, 1999)

*Re: (ps2375)*

I got a ride last night, and it sounds pretty bada$$. There is a mixed suction/roar that comes from under the hood when going WOT that you really can't describe. It's such a cool sound, and it is loud as poo.
FYI for all the local people: There is going to be back-to-back dyno days at RT Tuning in Lansdale on April 14-15 to benefit a local guy who was in a pretty bad car accident. I think it's going to be like $30 for 3 pulls, with all the proceeds going toward the guy's hospital bills. I don't know all the details, but a bunch of us (coughcough *Mendra* coughcough) will be in attendance. More details will follow in the Mid-Atlantic forum soon.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (pumpkin02)*

Video time - thanks for all the compliments - please ignore the squeak on the brakes, they're Porterfield RS4 pads and they scream all the time.
Header 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw3UWmvivBE
Fun run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbxMZeSV-Ao


_Modified by WolfGTI at 9:52 PM 4-8-2007_


----------



## McNeil (Jan 18, 2006)

First vid doesn't work.
Second video is awesome! Car really moves. That was one hell of a turn towards the end of the video. And then I loved to watch your tach go past 7k.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (McNeil)*


_Quote, originally posted by *McNeil* »_First vid doesn't work.


New one should be uploaded soon - not sure why it didn't work the first time -- works now.










_Modified by WolfGTI at 7:32 PM 4-1-2007_


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Fun run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qkkltbjze8


And _THATS_ why I bought an 8000rpm auxilary tach.
****in-A Mendra...****in-a. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## at_the_speed_of_2.l0w (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

freakin' sweet!!! sounds awsome...especially when it revs past 7000.









_Modified by at_the_speed_of_2.l0w at 7:40 PM 4-1-2007_

_Modified by at_the_speed_of_2.l0w at 7:41 PM 4-1-2007_



_Modified by WolfGTI at 7:42 PM 4-1-2007_


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (at_the_speed_of_2.l0w)*

I'm shifting @ 7700 in the video.









_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
And _THATS_ why I bought an 8000rpm auxilary tach.
****in-A Mendra...****in-a. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I have an Autometer 10000 rpm tach with a shift light - but you don't see it in the video.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_I'm shifting @ 7700 in the video.










...and it is still sounds very strong. Very Nice Mendra!


----------



## pumpkin02 (Oct 26, 1999)

*Re: (sdezego)*

You gotta love how the stock tach is in the odometer.


----------



## urogolf (Dec 10, 2000)

seems to pull all the way

sounds like no VW i have ever heard...
a mutt will do that though right
good job man


----------



## Mr Black (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: (urogolf)*

Beautiful...you've probably said this already but what gearbox/ratios are you running?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Mr Black)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr Black* »_Beautiful...you've probably said this already but what gearbox/ratios are you running?

G60 02A transmission case, normal MK3 VR6 gears 1 through 4, TDI 5th (.72) and 4.24 R&P.


_Modified by WolfGTI at 10:40 PM 4-1-2007_


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Wow! That motor revs so effortlessly and smoothly.I know you've heard it over and over but, nice build. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif It's gotta be a hoot to drive.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (ps2375)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ps2375* »_Wow! That motor revs so effortlessly and smoothly.I know you've heard it over and over but, nice build. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif It's gotta be a hoot to drive.









Thanks it's been a road getting this far, but I am pleased so far.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Thanks it's been a road getting this far, but I am pleased so far.

Looks and sounds good, mendra.
Next step, headwork!


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Thanks it's been a road getting this far, but I am pleased so far.

wow!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif that does sound crazy. nice work, man. I'm impressed. really. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (passataholic)*

looks and sounds beautiful!!! sounds soooo smooth and effortless in the higher rpms. i was watching the tach and when you got to redline i was shifting in my head







cannot belive how smooth it is all the way through past 7500


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*

It's not half as obnoxious as you made it sound.


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

That is just awesome. Sounds great http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_It's not half as obnoxious as you made it sound.









Wait till I come down to your place and you hear me while I'm on 40.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

I better hear you getting off 95 if I'm to believe the hype.


----------



## renngolf (Aug 25, 2005)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Yeah...that thing kicks ass.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_It's not half as obnoxious as you made it sound.









Seriously. I was expecting ot hear something that resembled a VR6 with only a purple hornie header muffler. Who would drive there car around like that? For over week even...


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

Yeah, it's nowhere near that loud. BTW, that's stupid


----------



## JettaBoy3 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*

menda....just to verify...your car does not sound like honda...


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (JettaBoy3)*

Subscribed. This is me:














rool:


----------



## koston. (Aug 20, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_Subscribed. This is me:














rool:

Nice. I love a tricked out 2.0 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*Re: (koston.)*

giggity


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Chapel)*

Couple recent engine shots.


----------



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

Man that is nice. I love this car. Did the Jenevy's come with an attchment for the filter or did you make it?


----------



## red97k2golf (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: (VWn00b)*

car looks really good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ya def gotta post up vids once your done


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (red97k2golf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *red97k2golf* »_car looks really good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ya def gotta post up vids once your done

Thanks - there are 2 videos on pg. 16 of this thread.

_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_Man that is nice. I love this car. Did the Jenevy's come with an attchment for the filter or did you make it?

I had the backing plate for the Pipercross filter customized to give it the depth to clear the injector bungs and the length of the velocity stacks I am using.


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

how much is the Jenvey kit?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Chapel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chapel* »_how much is the Jenvey kit?

I got my kit through Hayward performance, http://www.haywardperformance.com 
Lance (the owner) is a great resource to bounce ideas off of. The ITB's are Jenvey THP48i series. The ITB's with linkage and TPS and fuel rail were in the $1500 neighborhood.


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

New shots look good! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## renngolf (Aug 25, 2005)

*Re: (Kabinotar)*

Damn I missed this thing in person when it was up in Canada for JJB and a few of the local meets.


----------



## ctuagent117 (Oct 4, 2005)

this is a great build! And what i am going to say next is def. not a bashing of your hard work as everything looks great. 
However, you said that your goal was 200 crank HP and that you think a all motor car making all that HP is 'amazing'
Why not just get a 5 liter mustang? or a VR and cam it and bump compression a tad.
You'd save alot more time and money..


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (ctuagent117)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ctuagent117* »_this is a great build! And what i am going to say next is def. not a bashing of your hard work as everything looks great. 
However, you said that your goal was 200 crank HP and that you think a all motor car making all that HP is 'amazing'
Why not just get a 5 liter mustang? or a VR and cam it and bump compression a tad.
You'd save alot more time and money..

I don't think you understood me well enough or I did not explain myself. 
My goal was to break the 100hp/L barrier in a naturally aspirated VW motor on pump gas. That is almost impossible on a VR motor if not totally impossible while keeping the car able to drive in traffic / through winter etc. I am not sure I have achieved it as of yet, when I re dyno I will know. 
I didn't do a VR as well because I think VR cars do not feel as nimble as the 4cyl VWs. 
A 5 liter mustang isn't even something I would consider - it's not a VW, it's not a great handler and it's not a great daily driver.


----------



## ctuagent117 (Oct 4, 2005)

ahh HP/L. Hondas break those barriers all the time. 
Are you planning on VTEC-ING the 2.0?
EDIT:
Ok...soo you missed the joke..Ok.
i'm jealous.


_Modified by ctuagent117 at 5:32 PM 7-3-2007_


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (ctuagent117)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ctuagent117* »_ahh HP/L. Hondas break those barriers all the time. 
Are you planning on VTEC-ING the 2.0?
EDIT:
Ok...soo you missed the joke..Ok.
i'm jealous.

_Modified by ctuagent117 at 5:32 PM 7-3-2007_

For as much fun as this board makes of VTEC - it is really a decent way to keep mileage and yet have some power. Granted the Hondas do not feel as quick off the line as our cars due to torque delivery difference, but they really scream up high, which is something we have to really work to get our cars to do.


----------



## 87944S (May 11, 2007)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

I just have a question. What is the purpose/ benifit of using ITB's? Wouldn't keeping fuel injection be better? and more efficient?
(not doubting just trying to figure out why so many people use ITB's)


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*Re: (87944S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *87944S* »_I just have a question. What is the purpose/ benifit of using ITB's? Wouldn't keeping fuel injection be better? and more efficient?
(not doubting just trying to figure out why so many people use ITB's)

ITBs are fuel injection
you're thinking carburetters... which can look similar


----------



## 87944S (May 11, 2007)

*Re: (Chapel)*

But even then what is the benifit of using them?


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*Re: (87944S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *87944S* »_But even then what is the benifit of using them?

better breathing.
better idle characteristics (if tuned right)
better top end and more room for a bigger cam.
HUGE flow through
sounds ****in awesome too.
think about it this way
is it easier for you to breathe through one 60mm straw or four 50mm straws?


_Modified by Chapel at 10:56 AM 7-5-2007_


----------



## 87944S (May 11, 2007)

*Re: (Chapel)*

thanks alot chapel you answered my question.


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*Re: (87944S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *87944S* »_thanks alot chapel you answered my question.

no problem
ITBs are the key to high RPM power in normally aspirated AND Turbocharged engines


----------



## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (Chapel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chapel* »_
no problem
ITBs are the key to high RPM power in normally aspirated AND Turbocharged engines

it's funny, you don't see too many running this mod, on either N/A or Toibocharged cars. I had the chance to experience Wolfie's car to 200km/h ...effortlessly...
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

FYI - So since building the motor - I have had 2 starters both brand new, die out on me. My guess is the motor has too much compression for the regular gas starters, so now I am trying a TDI starter to see if it will do the job. The gas starters lasted 5 months each time.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Ahh yes, the starter. Diesel start might do the trick.
Seeing that the've got the grunt to crank 19.5:1 compression... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

So I put in the TDI starter on Friday. First of all the diesel starter is physically larger than the gas startes in length. The diameter is the same. The fit and bolt up is perfect, the only minor issue was that the bracket that attaches on the underside of the starter needed to be tweaked to fit. This bracket holds a heavy ground wire from the battery.
The TDI started cranks the motor over very easily, it sounds completely different under cranking than with the gas starter.








Gas on the left, TDI on the right.



_Modified by WolfGTI at 1:03 PM 10-8-2007_


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Good to know, I might just get one of these to start with and be done with it.
Still need a starter for the old O2A, so it seems like no brainer, even if that wasn't the issue.


----------



## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

did you weigh them?


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (mk2dubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk2dubbin* »_did you weigh them?









Ha ha ha, I was thinking the same damn thing!


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

Order one so I can see if it fits the VR.


----------



## race-shop joe (Apr 6, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Order one so I can see if it fits the VR.

it is the same as a vr ,just with the nose cone for a 4 cyl. yeah who needs all that wieght, billy when i go to the track to run a # you will have to pull the little red wagon around with the batteries and sbc starter with pistol grip


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (race-shop joe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *race-shop joe* »_billy when i go to the track to run a # you will have to pull the little red wagon around with the batteries and sbc starter with pistol grip

That would be funny.
Hey, wait? I'm no track b*tch!
No way, that's Mendra's job.















Anyway, I'll be to busy showing you what the tail lights of a single cam pig.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
That would be funny.
Hey, wait? I'm no track b*tch!
No way, that's Mendra's job.















Anyway, I'll be to busy showing you what the tail lights of a single cam pig.


ROFLOL - don't make me beat up on an N/A MK3 8v Billy


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_ROFLOL - don't make me beat up on an N/A MK3 8v Billy









What did you run again?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
What did you run again?
















LOL - as I have been told, a major part of it is seat time - and I'll be getting practice.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
ROFLOL - don't make me beat up on an N/A MK3 8v Billy









Saying that is a good way to find out what an 8v head shaved to the spark plug hole looks like


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_LOL - as I have been told, a major part of it is seat time - and I'll be getting practice.

Wait, I thought 1/4 mile was easy? Isn't it the turns that requires a "driver"???
1320, hell, that's just driving the car in a straight line, SUPER easy, anyone can do it!
If seat time is the case, I certainly hope it is a warm winter so you can run Atco every week!


----------



## race-shop joe (Apr 6, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
Saying that is a good way to find out what an 8v head shaved to the spark plug hole looks like









we dont go by mm or thousands, we shave 8v heads by the lb.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
Wait, I thought 1/4 mile was easy? Isn't it the turns that requires a "driver"???
1320, hell, that's just driving the car in a straight line, SUPER easy, anyone can do it!
If seat time is the case, I certainly hope it is a warm winter so you can run Atco every week!
















The 1/4 mile is easy - it's the launch that's hard







- like any form of racing the driver has a lot to do with the result.


_Modified by WolfGTI at 9:53 AM 10-9-2007_


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Bah, launch is easy too. Shouldn't be any different than your auto cross launches.
This is awesome! The 20v finally gets a bit brave with the banter, but does it to a guy who his bringing a stock block ABA 8v to the table for crying out loud!!!!








Come on now, if you had a runner on your hands you should have been atthe Fall Survival Series event 3 weeks ago beating on those guys in the hybrid class. 
Looks like next years fest of all fests should be interesting, a 20v, a 16v and an 8v all in AM/4...
Who is going to make it to the final round???????! That's race I will be looking forward to for a change. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

They should combine NA4 and NA6 and just make me and Chris run SS rules. THAT would be interesting.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_Bah, launch is easy too. Shouldn't be any different than your auto cross launches.
This is awesome! The 20v finally gets a bit brave with the banter, but does it to a guy who his bringing a stock block ABA 8v to the table for crying out loud!!!!










Billy, I mouth off to Joe and Paul all the time - I for one am really waiting for the track in Vineland to open up so I can run my car for what it was built for. As far as competing against you and Joe in NHRA racing - I don't think I can launch well enough to do that. Drag race launching differs from autocross launching somewhat.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Drag race launching differs from autocross launching somewhat.

Really, how so? It is still about elapsed time within a given class, except your racing the clock.
Botch that launch and your elapsed time will suffer greatly. An un-prepped parking lot launch leaves a lot to be desired when compared to a track that most likely still has rubber in the pavement from my dad's rail 30 years ago. Then factor in it's got enough VHT layed down over the years to whipe out a small country.

_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_I for one am really waiting for the track in Vineland to open up so I can run my car for what it was built for.

Aww, come on now, don't pull out the "it wasn't built for the 1/4 mile" card. That's to easy and way to VWvortex minded for you to lean on, you're better than that. BTW, I am not trying to be a competitive NHRA car anymore. If I was, I certainly wouldn't be entertaining an 8v powerplant.


















_Modified by billyVR6 at 11:56 AM 10-9-2007_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

I'd worry about the 2350lb K's and 2100lb B's before any all motor VW.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (need_a_VR6)*

Aww, I am not worried about anything. Honeslty, the only time I have ever worried at the line is when I find myself thinking "is that rotary going to stay in it's lane this time?"...
True Story.


----------



## race-shop joe (Apr 6, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

real nice you guys are over here talking **** about how many valves you got lol i just flew off the roof of the new raceshop in this crazy storm that came out of no where. we need a 24v now , next year should be great. maybe we can settle this out on union about 3 miles from the new shop. mendra you get the vht and billy gets the parking lot prep ,me and paul will start in the back row. first one to hit a deer wins


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_I'd worry about the 2350lb K's and 2100lb B's before any all motor VW.









Those K series swaps that do 240 and easily more at the wheels weigh 2350?? Damn!


----------



## race-shop joe (Apr 6, 2002)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Those K series swaps that do 240 and easily more at the wheels weigh 2350?? Damn!

the crx he has wieghs 2300 lbs and nothing has been taken out yet, i cant tell him all the little stuff yet. do you think we can fit a vw valve cover on a k series?


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (race-shop joe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *race-shop joe* »_real nice you guys are over here talking ****

Damn straight, it's all I got anymore. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








Honestly though, I just want to light a fire under Mendra's ass to get out there and run the number everyone is waiting to see. The car has a LOT of 1320 potential. To many have asked why is it only running high 14's. Make some adjustments and show everyone what they want to see. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









_Quote, originally posted by *race-shop joe* »_i just flew off the roof of the new raceshop in this crazy storm that came out of no where.

Well, since your posting I will take it you're O.K.

_Quote, originally posted by *race-shop joe* »_first one to hit a deer wins

No joke, I almost lost the new car already...
last Monday night back near the Dupont estate on Smith Bridge Road.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

Glad to hear you're ok Joe. Leave the flying to Superman.
Billy - Joe and Paul already have told me the car in it's present states is capable of 13's, it's my piss poor launching that kills it. Hence why I am going to practice, it'll be easier now that I have the Mini as my main daily.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_it'll be easier now that I have the Mini as my main daily.

Man, I thought that was "the" daily driven street car?! Boooo! Boooo!


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

It's still daily at present, and it will always be capable of going on too the road as a daily car. I've proved my point with the daily driveability and reliability of standalone and ITBS.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Since we are on the topic...
Just curious, how many times has that car been on any track since it has been put togther?
Drag, Road, Cones, honeslty... just curious.
I have asked in the past to see some road type related results from either the 20v or the 8v.
Can I ask again? There has to be some sort of document or footage of all the autox/road race that I've been hearing about for years.
Post it up. I want to see some hardcore three wheel action.
Let's see the car in it's element. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_Since we are on the topic...
Just curious, how many times has that car been on any track since it has been put togther?
Drag, Road, Cones, honeslty... just curious.
I have asked in the past to see some road type related results from either the 20v or the 8v.
Can I ask again? There has to be some sort of document or footage of all the autox/road race that I've been hearing about for years.
Post it up. I want to see some hardcore three wheel action.
Let's see the car in it's element. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
















The car has seen some auto cross action in Calgary when I lived there. I've taken it to the Philly area autox in Camden when it was there a few times. I have no photos of it in that element, usually because the few times I have gone it's never been with a bunch of friends. As far as road racing, the car has never set foot on a road track, it's been through some twisty roads and a few road rallies on tarmac. Since the motor has been built it's been to the track 4 times, maybe 5. On the 8v I practised at Atco a few times, at Etown more than a few times. you saw me spinning my tires @ Waterfest this year.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (race-shop joe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *race-shop joe* »_first one to hit a deer wins

I got a grant on me hitting one first.. car's been good at taking damage this week


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (need_a_VR6)*

BTW, I was getting stuff out of the loft...
I still have the original grille with badge from the car.
Let me know if you need it to fix that parking lot damage. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## elmer fud (Aug 5, 2003)

MORE!!!


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (elmer fud)*

Changes - the header and 48mm ITB's installed in April, the original runs are 45mm ITB's and OEM manifold.
Best previous run overlaid with todays best run.

* 
Special thanks to The Race Shop, especially Joe Pinto for building this 9000 rpm 4 banger.
Special thanks to Paul Kiernan of K&P Performance for tuning the ECU and header design.*











_Modified by WolfGTI at 10:19 PM 3-16-2008_


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Mulitiple 9200rpm pulls today.
Good to see that even more power was found afterwards with the cam gear.
I mentioned to Joe that now that we see where the car needs to be driven, that even if you didn't want to I think converting to a solid lifter set up might be a smart move just for good measure.
Once again, 9200rpm is just ridiculous, still hydo valve train, FTW.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

Billy - solid lifter valve train is a given - just gotta save up a little







- Thanks for your advice today @ the dyno.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

After that first pull with it pulling peaking at the 7200rpm limiter I thought it might get interesting. Glad it did. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Thats, what 235 hp to the crank? Insane.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_Thats, what 235 hp to the crank? Insane. 

I'd say more realistically 220 to the crank. (15%)loss.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Silly 4cyl creeping on VR6 numbers. I gotta step up!


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Silly 4cyl creeping on VR6 numbers. I gotta step up!

The 4cyl you need to worry about are the ones that kind of sound like B and K.








(I'll try to handle the D's...)
It is time to step it up, I don't know where I will be with anything so let's get your car somewhere. Get a small radiator and we'll work out a manifold.


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

looking real good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Silly 4cyl creeping on VR6 numbers. I gotta step up!

If you didn't help tune it - it wouldn't be stepping on your toes. Blame yourself.


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## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
I'd say more realistically 220 to the crank. (15%)loss.

crazy! good work, man.
any vids of the car on the dyno? need to hear that airplane engine sound ..


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (passataholic)*

About near the end of running my car I asked who forgot the camera. Maybe next time.


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## Dan J Reed (Jul 27, 2004)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif very very nice for an all motor car!!


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Dan J Reed)*








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (the brit)*

This calls for a new and better video and maybe some track times, eh? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_This calls for a new and better video and maybe some track times, eh? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









LOL - sometime I am sure I'll get around to that- it was interesting to watch the speedo spin past 140mph in 4th gear on the dyno on the 9K runs. The stock tach looked like it wanted to restart @ zero on those runs.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
LOL - sometime I am sure I'll get around to that- it was interesting to watch the speedo spin past 140mph in 4th gear on the dyno on the 9K runs. The stock tach looked like it wanted to restart @ zero on those runs.

I know the feeling... I used to tell people I shifted my old 16V GTI at 200rpms.


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## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2005)

Congrats on the outstanding numbers... I know it's been a long time coming, I bet it's a blast to drive!


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## passataholic (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
to watch the speedo spin past 140mph in 4th gear on the dyno on the 9K runs. 

mph..


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (passataholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *passataholic* »_
mph..










Those 4th gear pulls are nuts... especially with a tall 5th in a car that revs to the moon.


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## .yuk. (Oct 15, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Crazy numbers.
Good work Mendra. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
That Paul guy and his silly tuning. Make it rev to 11k.


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (.yuk.)*

Nice work! Nice to hear about Paul doing his thing as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Any idea what the flow figures for this head are?


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Nice work! Nice to hear about Paul doing his thing as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Any idea what the flow figures for this head are?

It's a stock AEB 1.8T 20v head casting with aftermarket valvetrain and Race-Shop valve job - so I do not know the flow figures.



_Modified by WolfGTI at 11:04 PM 11-23-2007_


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_It's a stock AEB 1.8T 20v head

Nitride coated, dished valves with undercut stems and a good cut came stock in the AEB heads?
No wonder those heads flow so well from the factory. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
Nitride coated, dished valves with undercut stems and a good cut came stock in the AEB heads?
No wonder those heads flow so well from the factory. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

As Billy points out - aftermarket valvetrain, with a Race-Shop valve job. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by WolfGTI at 11:04 PM 11-23-2007_


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## race-shop joe (Apr 6, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

that valve job is far from stock










_Modified by WolfGTI at 11:05 PM 11-23-2007_


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (race-shop joe)*

Why is the topic mod changing your post?


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_Joe, so based of your post, and Mendra's modified comment...
What is the deal with the valves?
Did those Supertech's get a different cut other than straight out of the box?
What about the seat?

Speaking with Joe last night Billy - apparently the head got a bunch of angles cut into the valve seats. I was not aware - hence why I said the head was physically stock - Joe was explaining to me the way the valves were done last night. It's wayyy beyond the standard VW 3 angle job. Apparently BillyT got major power gains from playing with valve seat angles on his motors.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Damn, with all that research one would think to know stuff like this about the engine. The seats have to be cut for the new valve, I was just interesting to hear that the Supertech were cut after the fact because they are coated. This is a far cry from a stock head, even if the runners have not been ported, your up on CFM all over the place just based on the Supertech valves and now the valve and seat job. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_Damn, with all that research one would think to know stuff like this about the engine. The seats have to be cut for the new valve, I was just interesting to hear that the Supertech were cut after the fact because they are coated. This is a far cry from a stock head, even if the runners have not been ported, your up on CFM all over the place just based on the Supertech valves and now the valve and seat job. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

All the research sourced the parts and other things. I know seats must be cut - I didn't know to what extent Joe had that done or spec'd. I figured it was 5 angle blend, I think based on what Joe said - even more was done.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Nice work! Nice to hear about Paul doing his thing as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Any idea what the flow figures for this head are?

Ready to switch off of CIS yet?








Based on the power, it's easily 200+ on the intake side at the lift of these cams.


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## 4690 (Oct 27, 2007)




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## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*Re: (vw_love2)*

I need to win the lotto...


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## 1320-20V (Sep 20, 2007)

*Re: (Chapel)*

Excellent build.


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## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

updates?


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Chapel)*

It's a weekend toy now - retired it after we bought a 3rd car. Some plans involving lightening the car are the major focus - making it more track oriented. Oh and one little thing. 








































Cat Cams solid lifter billet camshafts from QED . grind # 3758, - 11.00 mm lift intake 281 deg dur, 11.7mm lift exhaust, 278 dur - will be using Rosten Performance solid lifters and lash caps.



_Modified by WolfGTI at 10:45 PM 6-10-2008_


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

So, did Joe figure out what exactly broke, or happened to it yet?


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_So, did Joe figure out what exactly broke, or happened to it yet?

Nope - should be heading to his shop this weekend or sometime next week.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

Did you pull the valve cover at least?
See if anything is stuck, collapsed, broken, etc. ,etc.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

All I know is opening the throttle body was not increasing the revs.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (need_a_VR6)*

It will be interesting to see if this was related to that flutter/clatter that was happening at 8600/8700rpms or so. I never really heard anything like that before. How bad were those mis-shifts when you were trying to set it up the other night?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

It was on the limiter, past 9k not sure how far without looking at logs.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

God damned shifter bound up 1st in to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd - it would feel like it was in gear then not be - and I was planting the gas. Limiter hard cut was set to 9800 rpm. 


_Modified by WolfGTI at 1:52 PM 6-11-2008_


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (WolfGTI)*

9800 rpm?


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## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

... 9800?
this is a volkswagen motor we're talking about, yes?


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*

yup all vw.Where are the crazy videos


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*

Yes 9800 rpm on a VW motor. The hydraulic lifters apparently did not like it very much, hence the switch to solid lifters that will be undertaken. The motor with the hydro lifters made power to 8600 rpm and doesn't fall under 170 whp till 9000rpm. At the same time it is still making 115 lb/ft to the wheels @ 8500 rpm.


_Modified by WolfGTI at 10:29 PM 6-11-2008_


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Yes 9800 rpm on a VW motor. The hydraulic lifters apparently did not like it very much, hence the switch to solid lifters that will be undertaken. The motor with the hydro lifters made power to 8800 rpm.

thats about all I want out of my 16v build. 9k max. Question is I don't know if TT288's would get me there.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_
thats about all I want out of my 16v build. 9k max. Question is I don't know if TT288's would get me there.

Balance the bottom end and lighten whatever rotates and you'll see the 9k you want. Make sure the head breathes well as well. Get solid lifters.


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Balance the bottom end and lighten whatever rotates and you'll see the 9k you want. Make sure the head breathes well as well. Get solid lifters.

I wouldn't mind solid lifters, but I'm just not sure I'd be ready for the maintainence they take.
Whats a typical service internal for solid lifters?


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (VWn00b)*

Driven every day - an adjustment every 10000 miles.


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## omnivochero (Aug 16, 2008)

*Re: A little eye candy for the masses. (billyVR6)*

I dont know, but if you put an ABF, then pun a motronic ecu with respctives harnes, you'll get 170hp N/A, simply. No frankys


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *omnivochero* »_ I dont know, but if you put an ABF, then pun a motronic ecu with respctives harnes, you'll get 170hp N/A, simply. No frankys

















Um... what?


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Jay-Bee)*

Nice build, Wish i had the money.


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## LA7VJetta (Jul 21, 2009)

think imma bump this. :thumbup:


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## Magicshoes1 (Feb 9, 2010)

Wow! Just read through the whole thread and all i have to say is. . . Holy ish! That may be the most bad app thing i have seen in a while on vortex. Great build! Inspiration for my daily 16v motor i see in my dreams!


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## Claus1racing (Apr 24, 2011)

*25 vale top*



WolfGTI said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
> 25V Talladega manifold:
> 
> 
> ...


hello : )
I wants these parts on my audi, an need som help.
were can I get such a top? 25vales?
can sombody help me?

Einar Clausen Norway


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

This is the Talladega Audi: http://intendedacceleration.com/html/gallery.html
and this: http://www.audistory.24max.de/old1/html/e25v.htm


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

What happened to this thing? Current state?


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

AJmustDIE said:


> What happened to this thing? Current state?


 the car itself is in the museum at Talladega or at least it was a few years ago when I went.


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## felipe rocha (May 16, 2012)

WolfGTI said:


>


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

A1Crazy said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_I'm trying to count partitions and figure out if timing is in there as well, but It doesn't look like there is a timing curve.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


being that this was now 6 years, and 10 versions ago, i find this sentence QUITE funny..


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

Glegor said:


> being that this was now 6 years, and 10 versions ago, i find this sentence QUITE funny..


haha.

oh snap, don't let VWboy2.0L see this thread!


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## felipe rocha (May 16, 2012)

pistons JE #295745 ?


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## felipe rocha (May 16, 2012)

??? Help


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

Jay-Bee said:


> haha.
> 
> oh snap, don't let VWboy2.0L see this thread!


 :laugh::facepalm:


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

felipe rocha said:


> ??? Help


 Felipe, this is a 6 year old thread, try to PM WolfGTI with your question, he's still active on the forums but I doubt he ever drops in here. 



sauron18 said:


> :laugh::facepalm:


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## felipe rocha (May 16, 2012)

*HELP !*

I know the topic is older, I'm really needing to know what he is using piston. I tried to contact by PM, he did not answer, since I sent several.
Anyone there who knows or has contact him please take this my doubt, I'm from Brazil and here do not have pistons with 20V Dome aspirated.
Thank You All


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

felipe rocha said:


> I know the topic is older, I'm really needing to know what he is using piston. I tried to contact by PM, he did not answer, since I sent several.
> Anyone there who knows or has contact him please take this my doubt, I'm from Brazil and here do not have pistons with 20V Dome aspirated.
> Thank You All


Try reading the very first post.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

295745 def not these pistons


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

I've replied 2 times now.. hope your build is progressing well.



felipe rocha said:


> I know the topic is older, I'm really needing to know what he is using piston. I tried to contact by PM, he did not answer, since I sent several.
> Anyone there who knows or has contact him please take this my doubt, I'm from Brazil and here do not have pistons with 20V Dome aspirated.
> Thank You All


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## Hurt (May 3, 2011)

This is just amazing.


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## MahTrek=] (Nov 6, 2008)

Wow what a build. Incredible numbers. :thumbup:


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