# Motul Specific UOA



## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

Here is my UOA for the Motul Specific 5w40 i was running... overall, its definitely performing better than the Castrol Syntec i was running on the first two UOAs. There were nice improvements in wear, especially iron. However, i'm slightly disappointed with the ending viscosity. This motor just tears oil apart! It was able to maintain the viscosity better than the Castrol still, even with 1% fuel dilution...
Noticeably different additive/detergent used in the Motul. Boron is much higher, and calcium is also slightly higher than the Castrol...


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Motul Specific UOA (rhouse181)*

Looks real good for a 502 oil IMO and definitely an improvement over the castrol as you said. Iron is very low at 3.5 ppm/1000 miles at 20k. Average for that mileage is around 6. All other wear metals look good.
Shear rate is 16% at 3800ish miles if we assume starting viscosity of 13.9 which would not be good if it was a different engine. But for the 2.0 FSI it's not that bad and better than most 502 oils we've seen and on-par with GC. Doug Hillary on BITOG posted that manufacturers typically use 15% as the condemnation point for oil. But if we used that for the FSI, we'd by changing every 2k miles for 502 oils, so the FSI is atypical in that it destroys oils very quickly as you said. One of the redline runs was 11% after 5k miles for normal usage but the 90% city/very short trips/winter redline run was around 20% for 4000 miles. Redline and GC are typically some the most shear stable oils and they also shear in this engine. So all in all not that bad and definitely better than the syntec 5W40.
Shear rate is also helpful in trying to figure out the ending High Temperature High Shear viscosity of the oil. The rule of thumb as I understand it is the loss of HTHS is about 1/2 the shear %. So for example the syntec in your first run sheared 22% if we use 13.73 as starting kv100 (from a VOA). I am guessing the starting HTHS for that oil is 3.5? So ending HTHS would be 3.11 (assuming it is permanent and not temporary shear). The 502 minimum is 3.5 so that 3.11 is pretty low. If we look at the redline 11% example above which starts at an HTHS 4.6, then we would get 4.35, much higher than the 502 minimum of 3.5. Or that worst case redline of 20% would have ending HTHS of 4.14
That is why you sometimes hear very knowledgeable oil people saying things like we should run a 50 weight or straight 40 weight in this engine (due to the shear). I have subscribed to the philosophy of a higher HTHS is one of your best defences against fuel dilution but in reality it isn't as simple as just that. If you can find the starting HTHS for the Motul you can guess at the ending HTHS based on the shear rate.
Did you use any fuel injector cleaners this run? I noticed flashpoint was down and we typically see some manganese with fuel dilution. It would be interesting to try one of Motul's highest end oils such as the X-lite 0W30 or 300V to see how they do. I have been impressed with the very little data I have seen on those oils. That X-lite 0W30 appears to be loaded for bear! I bet they would do well. I'll put this UOA into the database if it is o.k. It will likely be one of the best 502 oil UOAs I would guess despite the viscosity loss.



_Modified by saaber2 at 7:26 PM 8-31-2009_


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: Motul Specific UOA (saaber2)*

I will try to dig up the starting HTHS for the Motul Specific... i didn't use any fuel injector cleaner or any other additives this run. only Shell 93 was used, i wonder if there new additive forumlation for their "nitrogen enriched" fuels has eliminated manganese presenting along with fuel dilution. 
As always, certainly include this in your database of UOAs. Need to get some more Motul runs in there. Do you have any information on the use of Boron in anti-wear additives? Its hard to find any information about it because it seems to be a lesser used element. 
I wonder if VAG really wants this motor to run a 30 weight oil, and recommends a 40 weight because they know how everything gets sheared down? On the new approved oil list, there are more and more 30 weights popping up...


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Motul Specific UOA (rhouse181)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_I wonder if VAG really wants this motor to run a 30 weight oil, and recommends a 40 weight because they know how everything gets sheared down? On the new approved oil list, there are more and more 30 weights popping up...

Yea it does make you wonder. Castrol syntec 5W40 starts at 13.7 cst and in some UOAs it shears down to as much as 10.3! I think they want the small mpg boost of a 30 weight, possibly for marketing purposes.
I am thinking for my next fill I may run a mix of 4 quarts of redline 10W30 (10.7 cst) and 1 quart redline 10W40 (14.6cst). That should give a starting viscosity of about 12.1, which is about the same as German Castrol. The starting HTHS should be about 4.0cP (10W30 is 3.8cP, 10W40 is 4.7cP). So in theory it would be light (high 30 weight) but still way more shear stable than 502 oils (typically 3.5-3.7 from what I have seen). 
It would also have the ultra-loaded anti wear package including lots of Moly. From my research it looks to me like the redline 10W30 is actually a straight 30 weight, and it's ester base makes it able to achieve the 10W30 designation without any viscosity improvers. If so it should be very shear stable and may shear less. It would be an interesting test to see if mpg changes and most importantly to see if wear metals change and if the oil shears less. I may switch out the oil early just for kicks to try this. 
I was going to run out this RL 5W40 fill to 5k for more testing of the pcv bypass but I don't think there is any need as it looks so close to the pre-bypass numbers. Also the redline iron numbers have totally stabilized from all appearances, so I probably won't learn any more on this oil. I need to experiment with something and changing oil is way less expensive than diving into experimenting w/performance mods ha ha. I know that the performance mods experimenting is just around the corner though...
Back to the 30 weight and Motul subject. I think that Motul x-lite 0W30 has lots of promise based on it's really high additive levels. but that is based on one UOA of it only, where the owner had lots of makeup oil. I wonder if the makeup oil concentrated the additives so that it looks much higher than it actually is? I would love to see a VOA of it to confirm the high anti wear and detergent levels.
Edit: 4 quarts 10W30 plus one 10W40 is 11.37cst according to this calculator: http://www.rohmax.com/rohmax/e...tures/


_Modified by saaber2 at 1:40 PM 9-1-2009_


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Motul Specific UOA (saaber2)*

Another Motul specific UOA was posted here FYI: 
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/...58012


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## CloselyClompTheAccel. (Oct 28, 2009)

*Re: Motul Specific UOA (saaber2)*

Yes looks like a decent UOA from what I've seen,...I've been going a little whackadoodle trying to figure out what to put in the tig at its first 5K. I've got a $$ credit at the dealer from VOA and they just started carrying the Motul Specific; I think it's a good all-around choice especially since my mill is (supposedly) a little better with shear and fuel dilution, and seeing I won't be out of pocket. 
But, what is currently the base stock on this oil? I've looked everywhere and can't find it...group IV and petro-based (napthalene maybe) group V? Group III and IV blend for the TDIs? The tig is at 4988mi and I'm sure I can hear that desert sand in there...help!!


_Modified by CloselyClompTheAccel. at 2:24 PM 10/28/2009_


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Motul Specific UOA (CloselyClompTheAccel.)*

It's nearly impossible to know how much group V ester content vs. PAO group IV IMO. But from everything I have seen, it looks like the Motul 300V has a high ester content and likely the Motul X-lite 0W30. This is also reflected in Motul's language on the product sheet and marketing literature. I'm thinking it is not a coincidence that 300V and X-lite costs up to twice as much as the lower end Motul oils. Esters are expensive, that is why there are so few on the market, but their performance is incredible. 
I suggest seeing if you can get them to spring for the x-lite 0W30. It's darned expensive but looks excellent on paper. I don't know if 300V is 502 approved or not. If it is the dealer may have that. The X-lite is 502 approved. I give zero weight to 502 approval personally because it is such a low threshold spec. but the dealer prob. wouldn't put anything not 502 approved in. But you could ask I guess.


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