# 88 Quattro - Lehmann edition



## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

OK, so I entered the gang of old turbocharged typ 85 owners this autumn. To avoid cluttering up the urquattro picture thread, I thought I'd do some small thread for the car itself here. Nothing major changes will be done though...

The car itself is originally a 1988 Quattro from Switzerland, and holds the downgraded WX engine at 162~165 hp, black leather interior, Steingrau color. Originally... :laugh:

At some point, a previous German owner sent the car to Lehmann Motorentechnik. If you don't know Lehmann, the hints are that Lehmann is (_the?_) Audi Sport engine provider, also valid back in the days of Röhrl and the rest. Here they built the engine into a 2.2L and featuring some Group A (and B) parts, and general Lehmann work at the head. Nothing over the top here, as the original CIS is still in place, but the fun of it combined with my dedicated interest in the old Audi rallyes made it an easy choice. Also being non-EU, actually picking this up was a nice deal compared to importing a similar specimen from Germany or Switzerland.

So what were the downsides?
On an old lady like this, there are always some bits and pieces not up to standards. The car is resprayed, but OK, it is not 100% original either with the Lehmann work done. The antenna doesn't go all the way. The amber turns were swapped for repro white ones, and the previous owner did the classic mistake of mounting bigger speakers, and the Polk items looks horrible! The Ronals were swapped for Compomotives in OEM-dimension, as "they're the ones used on the rally cars". The whole idea he had of these cars were just so silly for a urq/sq lover as myself. At that note, he also fitted EBC yellow(?)stuff pads that are sh!t on normal road use, and the handbrake cables are worn/stretched. Luckily, I am sourcing parts as a badger in may!












Sepp said:


> Is that a custom ordered plate provided by your vehicle registration department?
> If not, are you able to run a replica plate on the front of your car? In the States, and Canada, certain areas allow for this.


In Norway the first letters in the road legal plates are related to areas the car is registered. Unlike in Germany, these stay with the car throught its lifespan, and they are selectable. Funnily enough, the previous owner resided in that area where they have "UR" - a desired option for imported urquattros all over the country. So the IN-LA 22 plates are showplates, you are not allowed to utilize these at all on the road, as one can be faced with falsification charges.



















Future plans?
Yes... First of all I want to find all the tiny hard to find bits to get it going in a look I like. Amber turns are sourced and bought, the same a NOS Votex antenna, handbrake cables and other bits. I did borrow a center shaft from an Audi A4 quattro Supertouring, and did measure it to see if it is applicable with the 016 urquattro drivetrain. No idea so far...but the shaft weighet 4100 grams with its carbon weave/titanium construction.










From a friendship, where I somewhat supported with details in the restoration of two old rallye Quattros and a finished rallye Sport Quattro, I hope to get some input on the rallycar shafts. Also on its way from Germany are some Die Wethje parts.

If the CIS goes, I think I'll do a 300hp "Gr A" Motronic...
Thanks for tuning in!


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## 83mk2scirocco (Nov 13, 2008)

Thats sweet.
I love the square but round look with the EURO lights.








Very Smooth car.:beer:


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## teach2 (Aug 3, 2005)

I think you are being too hard on the imperfections...that car looks great.

I may have missed pictures in the other thread. How about a side shot showing the Compomotives?


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## 83mk2scirocco (Nov 13, 2008)

Not being hard on it that cars the sh*t.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Thanks guys.
The whole thing is that the urquattro is an ICON. When people messes it up with alterations not thought through, it is simply bugging me. Luckily, they are more or less reversable. :facepalm:

I like the looks of it, but getting the amber turns on in front did a whole lot. The picture of the grey one in The picture thread totally convinced me of that. Here are some detail shots, inclusive the _almost_-same-nyance-Compomotives from when I picked it up in October.





































Picked up a new expansion tank today at the dealer, got new handbrake wires, and other bits and pieces already aquired.
Uhm yeah, also having the rallye inlet parts on its way... :laugh:


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## 83mk2scirocco (Nov 13, 2008)

teach2 said:


> I think you are being too hard on the imperfections...that car looks great.
> 
> I may have missed pictures in the other thread. How about a side shot showing the Compomotives?


I know what is was I have not realy seen those,I love how it looks.I want one,I just got to get the
money.And find some room for my scirocco's.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Thanks guys.

The compomotives might be sold, or kept for some playful winterrubber (icespikeeds or studded ones perhaps?).
I am looking into rallye bits, unsure what to seek for. Just collecting them has some value...
This car would look killer on the metal finish works Fuchs wheels! :thumbup:


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Nothing new in particular with the car itself, just charging the battery a bit by driving on fresh powder snow gently around neighboring streets. 
But I have aquired some parts, and I am really looking forward to sorting out the horrible brakes and mounting a functioning NOS Votex antenna. 
Swapping for a white expansion tank could brush up the enginebay aswell! :laugh: 










After the feedback I got on the engine, I have moderated my plans for it consideratly. 
On a general basis, I suspect this engine to be quite like the 2.1L 238hp one in the 1987 Audi 200 Group A car, without knowing for sure ofcourse. 
But it was too late for parts on its way. Anybody recognizing this part?


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

No suggestions on the part above? :laugh:

Either way, it seems the Trans Am has the basic Bosch unit for boost, so I think I'll get the uprated 2.7T / 225hp 1.8T unit into mine aswell, instead of the nasty Samco one.


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## Kliminati456 (Mar 4, 2010)

Beautiful car....Can you tell me what the paint color code is?


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

As stated, it is stonegrey metallic. From Per's thread, it seems to be LY9Y.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3723622-Audi-quattro-color-codes


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Anyone seen any black-only inlet-hose for the 10VT?


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## Sepp (Dec 10, 2002)

Last I heard 034 had black hoses for sale!


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Yeah it seems to be the best option except the original ones... :thumbup:


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Sepp said:


> Last I heard 034 had black hoses for sale!


I assume the "teardrop" hos of 034 fits all 10VT engines?

I also experienced flooring the brake pedal, shortly followed by a locking passenger side calipper.
The car now resides at VW/Audi, where some elderly VW mechanic (with own urquattro) mends it.
Seems like one cracked brakehose up front, two bulgeing ones at the rear, and a pipe in dire ned of change.

Been searching for OEM turnsignales for a long while, but I gave in and ordered a set of repros of eBay.
Anybody else in here have tried these? I am tired of the whites with amber up front.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Got news from the workshop that the brake regulating valve (??) had rusted and was not able to be mended. Autohaus AZ and 034 came up as suppliers, so I opted for 034 as they also have the black silicone inlet-hose, and purchased the brake accumulator and some NGK sparks aswell.

Only thing though, is that 034 doesn't stock the OE parts, so dashing out $200+ for UPS doesn't pay of that much. :thumbdown:
Great selection and fast response on email/feedback though, but they could've mentioned about the OE parts somewhere - after all I am suppose to get this half way across the globe!

Had a lucky find on eBay aswell, as a pair of the higher-level Polk Audio 6x9 speaker mesh was available for $18 for a pair. PO naturally had the stereo specialist cut into the metal works of the over the trunk, so it is time to clean up the sh!tty looking ones I have and get the shelf lookin all-black, and avoid any further adaption to other 6x9s. :thumbup:


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

:thumbup:


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Sepp said:


> Last I heard 034 had black hoses for sale!


 I don't think the MC inlet hose is suitable for 2144ccm WR or WX engines atleast, as I struggle to see any teardropped shape of the upper inlet fixture, nor has it the length that is needed. Oh well... 

Totally different case: 
I notice the oil temp LED-gauge is either dead (at 0 degrees) or settles at approx 130 degree celsius, which is alarmingly high. Can this be a faulty temp sensor, and where is it located? The idea of getting VDO instruments etc to match - as I have analogue, red dials - is present. On that note, is there at all any non-flashy-****uped-looking broadband lambda measuring meters on the market? edit: AEM seems to have one possibility. 

Else, I managed to score this one. Hope transaction and transport and EVERYTHING goes well..! 
In case you are wondering, it is a 85mm stroker crank found in Audi S1 and 90 IMSA GTO, so I should be able to create an IMSA-like based on RR/AAN/ADU/ABY engine block to get 2190ccm.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

New image today from seller, looks like it is stamped 11.85, so I guess Audi S1 item. :thumbup:


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## JTuhkanen (Oct 18, 2006)

WAUOla said:


> I notice the oil temp LED-gauge is either dead (at 0 degrees) or settles at approx 130 degree celsius, which is alarmingly high. Can this be a faulty temp sensor, and where is it located? The idea of getting VDO instruments etc to match - as I have analogue, red dials - is present. On that note, is there at all any non-flashy-****uped-looking broadband lambda measuring meters on the market? edit: AEM seems to have one possibility.


 The gauge itself could be faulty. A member of the Bavarian Urquattro club has specialised on fixing these digigauges. Maybe you should contact him? 

BUC: Tacho und elektronikreparaturen


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Wow, that's a really nice car man. We'd love to feature it along with some of its history sometime.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Out shooting today... :thumbup: 










As I got the IMSA crankshaft, I am thinking about building a sort of Sport Quattro engine. 
Basis would be 2190cm² in normal cast-iron block, standard head and KW style exhaust manifold (if not getting a Wagner for K24/26 flange). Theoretically limited at 8500 rpms.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

WAUOla said:


> As I got the IMSA crankshaft, I am thinking about building a sort of Sport Quattro engine.
> Basis would be 2190cm² in normal cast-iron block, standard head and KW style exhaust manifold (if not getting a Wagner for K24/26 flange). Theoretically limited at 8500 rpms.


 No big news actually, but I'm getting a Sport Quattro turbo to match with the original exhaust manifold. 
Will try to get some ideas of figures from James B, but I believe this is capable of 450hp on 1.3BARg. 
But look at the graphs anno 1983, my Lehmann 10V has more torque, and it drops at top rpm - how will this be on a valver? Don't know, but the K27 turbo is according to rallye documentations atleast.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

James (Fusilier) has such a great writeup on the old style KKKs on his homepage, so I will not elaborate further over this. The thing I can say however is that I am a bit puzzled that the in-port of the K26/24-7200 RS2 unit has a straigh inlet port, whereas this K27 has a coned one from approx 62 to 46mm.

Note how the backplate also has the K28 numbers. Sadly no idea what these represent though.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Nothing much going on, but managed to get featured in our club's mag.
So that is like 4500 copies going around. :thumbup:


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## 81type53 (Jun 2, 2008)

Beautiful ride.:thumbup:


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## skywalker38 (Aug 15, 2010)

From a friendship, where I somewhat supported with details in the restoration of two old rallye Quattros and a finished rallye Sport Quattro, I hope to get some input on the rallycar shafts. Also on its way from Germany are some Die Wethje parts.

holy **** that shaft is awesome,do you think he has got anotherone?,i would love to use that for my audi 80 competition


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

I believe a lot of spares are for sale, as they also purchased some S2000 cars for more fun-activities.

Not sure on pictures gone missing, or if I just forgot to present the ones we shot for the magazine.
So here goes!


















































edit: look how aweful those speakers look! 1. pri to change them out with something more descrete.
Been thinking of Infinity 693.11 or what they're called, a bit of oldskool plastics look.

Purchases Samco induction kit, but it's not to my taste with black/red brick color combination.
eBay add even stated available in brick red only, so there's a hot tip for you!


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## Sepp (Dec 10, 2002)

Very nice man!!!!


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Thanks Sepp. 

I want to tighten the undercarriage of the car, so open to any good ideas for getting bushings and whatnot.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

WAUOla said:


> The car is resprayed,


Any idee what color that is. ?


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Yes... Steingrau Metallic (as the thread states).


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

WAUOla said:


> Yes... Steingrau Metallic (as the thread states).


THX, must overread that.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Might be some parts (rear spoiler?) being painted, but generally it has only gotten a round of clear coat. Over the stripes and such "of course". :banghead:

Trying to sort out some "upgrades" to get a tighter steering and driving feel to the car.
The old rubber from 1988 might need some swaps to do that...
So are "we" all purchasing from seekparts24?


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Random as random can be...


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## Sepp (Dec 10, 2002)

Great to see you're still posting about the car. 
I get all my parts from various sources, depending on what they have in stock.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Stumbled across an offer I simply couldn't refuse...
Being at home (due family matters and sick leave due grief) I had the time for a small trip.

Gathered nothing less than a cast alloy Audi Sport block from the rallye Quattro A2.
I am requesting some historic input on this, due 10V or 20V route.
This suits very well for my Gr B engine parts-gathering. :thumbup:


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## Sepp (Dec 10, 2002)

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

I am happy atleast! Will try to figure out some header on this, and most likely it will be standard 10V with repro or non-OEM parts. Might do it as simple as standard header, 270° cam and replica plenum/inlet and exhaust manifolds.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Been struggling with the brakes again/still. 

First I sprayed WD-40 on the handbrake-mechanism to prevent "locking", handforced it back into normal position, and it still slightly rubbed. 

So a drove it a little to see if it helped, heated brakes. Left the car at the garage for a while, started going back to the storage very slowly - overheating, pedal to the floor. 

Not very impressed by these brakes. Not sure if EBC items gives worse clearance aswell...


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Now this is getting ridicolous.
Brakes are still messing up with light hang onto the discs.

Someone tipped me about some valves by the master cylinder that may hang or move slowly, making the brake system keep slight pressure even if off the brakes.

Sounds familiar to anyone?


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## ralleyquattro (Sep 1, 2004)

Nice block, I just got one as well, but a street version.
Can I ask you to take few more pictures?
Would like to machine mine to copy the works version.

Here are pictures of mine:


























Nice car, btw I love the compomotives.. 










Cheers


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

I heard a rumor that compomotive is out of business. Anyone else hearing this?


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## ralleyquattro (Sep 1, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I heard a rumor that compomotive is out of business. Anyone else hearing this?


Yes, we were one of the last group buys before they closed the doors last year.
Insider info was that the company was trying to move operations to China to cut costs.. not sure where that ended up.. but for now they are out of business.

Cheers


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

ralleyquattro said:


> Yes, we were one of the last group buys before they closed the doors last year.
> Insider info was that the company was trying to move operations to China to cut costs.. not sure where that ended up.. but for now they are out of business.
> 
> Cheers


That's a real shame. Glad you got your wheels though.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

ralleyquattro said:


> Nice block, I just got one as well, but a street version.
> Can I ask you to take few more pictures?
> Would like to machine mine to copy the works version.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Actually wasn't aware there were new entries in this thread as such! Hard to tell from your resolution, but it looks like a general road car engine to me.

Car has mainly been sitting for a while, due the fuzz with the brakes. Long story short: master cylinder was defect, looked like someone forgot about the safety screw and tried yanking it out of the casing, damaging on of the moveable alloy pieces, making it slower than it should. These internals were sourced of other master cylinder, and a bit of luck has it there's a hydraulic workshop at work, so we did a working hour special with washing and honing (is that the word in english?) of the housing that came off the car, just to be sure.

Why running the same old housing instead of just sticking with the new item bought you say? Turns out there is a PITA correlation in parts for urquattro!
brake servo off car identical to new from Audi Tradition
master cylinder off car had 35mm sleeve
new master cylinders (I sourced both 25,4 and 23,81mm items) had 41mm sleeves
None of this makes senses to me, as even the master cylinder pictured at Audi Tradition shop looks to be 41mm sleeve type, so there is no available solution as far as I know. My 1988 edition car allegedly/apparently is running same dual piston calipers as 20V and early Audi S2, so I would see it natural to having the 25,4mm master cylinder on this car (as 20Vs do). Let's see what comes up from support functions at Audi (if any).










Last but not least, I managed to source a pair of Fuchs magnesium rims, although with type 43 numbers and scarsly 6 x 15 dimension. No good for anything, but perhaps could have made a nice replacement spare wheel in Gr 4 style fitted with 185/65 tyre. Also being out and about, I managed to trace down the genuine Bosch Motorsport ECU for the exact Lehmann 10V engine (Block, but still...) I have. It was nice, althought not a deal breaker for the "museum" engine I will patch together...some day...with whatever parts found suitable... :screwy:


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## ralleyquattro (Sep 1, 2004)

WAUOla said:


> Hi,
> Actually wasn't aware there were new entries in this thread as such! Hard to tell from your resolution, but it looks like a general road car engine to me.
> 
> Last but not least, I managed to source a pair of Fuchs magnesium rims, although with type 43 numbers and scarsly 6 x 15 dimension.


Yes, this particular engine was used in a road car, however all alloy castings were the same, only the final machining was different.
The machining is easily repeated to make it rally spec.

Never seen a 6 x 15.. always 7 x 15 for road wheels. 
Can you take a closeup of the part numbers, very curious.
I had 10 sets (yes 10x4) of Fuchs they were all 7x15, used to put them on everything.. 












now down to 2 sets, most went to Italy.. 

Cheers


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## Sepp (Dec 10, 2002)

It's great to see updates!
This forum has slowed waaay down since I've been away.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

ralleyquattro said:


> Never seen a 6 x 15.. always 7 x 15 for road wheels.


As stated, they came with type 43 numbers - also known to be on early type 44s. On these specificly, VAG partno is 437 601 025 A.



Sepp said:


> It's great to see updates!
> This forum has slowed waaay down since I've been away.


Always is, isn't it?  Idea of having a Quattro specific forum has struck me...


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## ralleyquattro (Sep 1, 2004)

WAUOla said:


> As stated, they came with type 43 numbers - also known to be on early type 44s. On these specificly, VAG partno is 437 601 025 A.


Wow, thanks for the part number, these must be super rare, not to mention cool, never seen another set before.

Cheers


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

ralleyquattro said:


> Wow, thanks for the part number, these must be super rare, not to mention cool, never seen another set before.
> 
> Cheers


They may, never seen such narrow Fuchs'es before. Snow specific ones on Gr 4 Quattro, and seems winter wheel on typ 44 portal...
Getting two more alike them may be hard as nails.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

So, narrow tires 185/60 R15 or so would be correct fitment for the Fuchs, if I were to replace the spare wheel to something a little sexier.

Speaking of sexier, I just did a DIY to correct a big annoyance. Looking at the silver painted Polk Audios wasn't doing it for me.
Finding the all-black grilles of the sister product hasn't been found during a while, so I did it this way: marine grilles, matted down, and painted in some "bumper paint". Not 100%, but 85% being 65% more than the silver ones... 











Also noticed a small damage in the rear seat cuchion, that should be fixed. Think it can be, it's a scratch beyond the paint or so that should be possible to "patch up".


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## ralleyquattro (Sep 1, 2004)

185/60 would be too small (short). Overall diameter would be smaller by about 1" and your speedometer out by almost 4%
Better choice would be 185/65 even though still too small. 195/65 would be ideal.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

How do you make that?? From 215/50R15, I'd say the 195/55 typical Golf VR6 size is as close as it gets. 195 on 6" sounds too chunky as a spare?

Either way, got very, very lucky. Sat at partens in law this new years, and passed through a local ad page and found a set of Audi V8 BBS wheels for sale. So these made me excited to (a) test fit 16" on urquattro for clearances & (b) do for an old Audi 100 late generation (after test fit, with 205/55 most likely). What was very good about them, was I was correct in hoping they were the BBS RG043 forged wheels, making them properly lightweight and will fit the 2.3E engine just fine. :thumbup:


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## ralleyquattro (Sep 1, 2004)

WAUOla said:


> How do you make that?? From 215/50R15, I'd say the 195/55 typical Golf VR6 size is as close as it gets. 195 on 6" sounds too chunky as a spare?
> 
> Either way, got very, very lucky. Sat at partens in law this new years, and passed through a local ad page and found a set of Audi V8 BBS wheels for sale. So these made me excited to (a) test fit 16" on urquattro for clearances & (b) do for an old Audi 100 late generation (after test fit, with 205/55 most likely). What was very good about them, was I was correct in hoping they were the BBS RG043 forged wheels, making them properly lightweight and will fit the 2.3E engine just fine. :thumbup:



The 16x8 BBS was a dealer option for the Ur-quattro in Votex catalog.

Hope this helps.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Dealer option was BBS RS for the urquattro, no? Not BBS RG?


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## ralleyquattro (Sep 1, 2004)

WAUOla said:


> Dealer option was BBS RS for the urquattro, no? Not BBS RG?


Sorry, do not know which type, all I know it was a BBS and offered through Votex catalog.

HTH


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

The hoarding continues. As can be read on the news section, Milltek has launched a set of exhaust kits under the Milltek Classic selection. And yes, there's something for the urquattro there!
So I have just been a bit back and forth on getting the Milltek (2.5", lifetime warranty, nice 304 stainless, 2x90mm tips) versus BN pipes (2.75", has approval certificate, stainless, 2x76mm tips).

Looking at the press release pictures, I wasn't thrilled about the choice of 90mm "GT" tips for these cars. Checking the mk1 and mk2 Golfs, they kept more according to original design/dimension.
After talks with the local seller of Milltek, I'm going to give the kit a go, and they will source me a set of "Jet 76.2mm" tips in addition for a decent price for me to experiment with. I believe this would be closer looking to the 3" kit for S2 Avant & RS2 they are selling out these days.


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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)




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## WAUOla (Apr 15, 2005)

Thanks!

Was about time to get it road approved again...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDH_4LaHDzD/


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