# has anyone made a 24v vrt twinscroll manifold?



## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

im lookign for any pics or other info on building a twin scroll equal length exhaust manifold for a 24v vrt


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## MKIII_96 (Nov 25, 2006)

eurojet was making them for the 12v motors and were supposed to make them for the 24v motors but idk if they ever got to them


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## Slapbladder (Feb 1, 2006)

waste of time and will crack eventually....

find a decent cast manifold....unless you are trying to run massive HP its a waste of time having an equal length tubular manifold...


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Slapbladder said:


> waste of time and will crack eventually....
> 
> find a decent cast manifold....unless you are trying to run massive HP its a waste of time having an equal length tubular manifold...


If its properly made it will be fine. There are lot more benefits to twin scroll manifolds than max power.


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> If its properly made it will be fine. There are lot more benefits to twin scroll manifolds than max power.


hahaha yea i agree dave, the unquantifiable numbers are where it shines, mid range boost, boost on set, jsut the transient response is sooo much better


that and if its properly fabricated, turbo supported w brace , etc it will last a very long time


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## MKIII_96 (Nov 25, 2006)

Slapbladder said:


> waste of time and will crack eventually....
> 
> find a decent cast manifold....unless you are trying to run massive HP its a waste of time having an equal length tubular manifold...


yeah because cast manifolds never crack, and if it does, cast iron is really easy to weld :facepalm:

most if not all tubular manifolds come with lifetime warrantys anymore


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## Slapbladder (Feb 1, 2006)

Lol show me one with a lifetime warranty!

Cast are far less likely to crack...i know from first hand all about stainless, fabrication, tig welding and metalology...i know they may spool better but as I said above its not worth it for the gains. Also the tig welding on the manifold above is just fused together and doesn't look like any wire has been added which is a weak weld.....but I am sure the lifetime warranty will cover it....yawn


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Slapbladder said:


> Lol show me one with a lifetime warranty!
> 
> Cast are far less likely to crack...i know from first hand all about stainless, fabrication, tig welding and metalology...i know they may spool better but as I said above its not worth it for the gains. Also the tig welding on the manifold above is just fused together and doesn't look like any wire has been added which is a weak weld.....but I am sure the lifetime warranty will cover it....yawn


First of all its called filler rod, not wire. Second, a certified welder will have a smooth weld with no rise or valley in the weld itself. 

Lastly, a friend of mine had a full race mini ram on his civic for 3 years, crack free. It was his daily.


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## MKIII_96 (Nov 25, 2006)

Slapbladder said:


> Lol show me one with a lifetime warranty!
> 
> Cast are far less likely to crack...i know from first hand all about stainless, fabrication, tig welding and metalology...i know they may spool better but as I said above its not worth it for the gains. Also the tig welding on the manifold above is just fused together and doesn't look like any wire has been added which is a weak weld.....but I am sure the lifetime warranty will cover it....yawn


my eurojet 1.8t manifold has a lifetime warranty against manufacture defects, pretty sure FFE will repair any of thier manifolds too for free if its a manufacture defect. i mean, thats what the product description says 

FYI a cast log manifold will spool a little faster than a tubular manifold because of the increased back pressure at low RPM and at high rpms a tubular manifold will blow a cast out of the water.
but a twin scroll will spool just as fast as a cast log manifold and make more power up top than an open scroll tubular manifold.

the new evos come with twin scroll manifolds now. and i thinks saabs did too


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## Slapbladder (Feb 1, 2006)

depends on the thickness clever clogs....

you can use stainless rod....i.e. 1.6mm or flexible wire from a reel say 1mm....depends on the weld and heat needed due to thickness of the material....a completely flat weld on a manifold like that with the heat going through it will not be strong....you need a slight peak to knit both sides together correctly and for strength to spread the load.....

when you have welding experience give me a call....until them listen to your elders young grasshopper and keyboard warrior somewhere else....


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

Done tons of turbo set-ups on many many cars cast is the way i go on my personal vehicles pretty much problem free. Have to fix tubular manifolds all time.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Does eurojet actually make any of the crap they talk about? "Flash in the pan" seems fitting for them.


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## MKIII_96 (Nov 25, 2006)

i got their twin scroll 1.8t manifold. its not an actual product on their website but maybe if you contact them they will make the vr mani. all their stuff is made when you order it. but i really dont know...

its probably all limited run stuff


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## 92g60gti (Jul 6, 2004)

Slapbladder said:


> Lol show me one with a lifetime warranty!
> 
> Cast are far less likely to crack...i know from first hand all about stainless, fabrication, tig welding and metalology...i know they may spool better but as I said above its not worth it for the gains. Also the tig welding on the manifold above is just fused together and doesn't look like any wire has been added which is a weak weld.....but I am sure the lifetime warranty will cover it....yawn












There you go. There's one with a lifetime warranty. I'll also mention that it is the same EXACT manifold as pictured above. I got it from the fabricator who makes the manifolds for Eurojet. Also before you go talking about what you are not extremely farmiliar with those are extremely good welds on the manifold. The guy who makes them actually used to work for A.F.I. and is an extremely good fabricator/welder. If you have an experienced welder and the welds have been back purged as well, you shouldn't have a prolem.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Slapbladder said:


> Lol show me one with a lifetime warranty!
> 
> Cast are far less likely to crack...i know from first hand all about stainless, fabrication, tig welding and metalology...i know they may spool better but as I said above its not worth it for the gains. Also the tig welding on the manifold above is just fused together and doesn't look like any wire has been added which is a weak weld.....but I am sure the lifetime warranty will cover it....yawn


Coming from someone who was actually there the day the manifold pictured above was welded, it definitely had filler rod. By the way, it's metallurgy, not metalology :facepalm:

I'd love to see pics of your work :thumbup:


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## pileofredparts (Mar 20, 2009)

leebro61 said:


> Coming from someone who was actually there the day the manifold pictured above was welded, it definitely had filler rod. By the way, it's metallurgy, not metalology :facepalm:
> 
> I'd love to see pics of your work :thumbup:


LMAO

come on hes a welder not a educated individual lol


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

Who knows maybe he's a Judas Priest fan.


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## DAROWDYAUDI (Feb 22, 2006)

leebro61 said:


> By the way, it's metallurgy


:laugh: I was about to post that.


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

4 cyl twin scrolls on huge turbos crack easy with halfa$$ welds, 6cyl manis are quite a bit more resistant and when welded correctly and braced they will last just as long as a cast counterpart. 

the issue is people usually dont brace and have sloppy engine mounts which put the extra strain on the manifold. ...... its a pretty large and heavy turbo hanging on one end of a tube creating a good moment arm on a cycling load (sloppy engine mounts) what else would you expect other than failure?

welding with heat sinks and back purging is a must and the comment of the weld is the toughest part of the weld is the most ridiculous thing to say (inexperience welders comment) because where does it crack when it doesnt crack at the weld??? ............ yeah you guessed right right beside it at the heat affected zone that a bad welder overcooked and still claims his weld is far superior because it didnt break. a good prepped part before and after a weld should keep the material properties close to original and post heat treatment should relief from internal stresses. 

I have seen people make better arch welds than most people Tig welds so its all bout knowing your stuff acquired by years of experience.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

I agree about the weld not being the strongest part of the manifold. If a manifold doesn't crack on a weld, it's probably going to crack in the HAZ, and that's likely because the material properties have been degraded.

Most manifold failures I have seen have been on or near the wastegate... and I would bet that's driven by cyclic loading. If you build a manifold with a critical frequency that is going to be excited by an engine driver (either mechanical, acoustic or otherwise), the part isn't going to last long, especially at high temperatures.

About bracing... a well designed brace is a good thing, however I would think that a bad brace is going to be worse than no brace at all if it prevents the manifold from expanding as it wants to.


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## 92g60gti (Jul 6, 2004)

huichox4 said:


> welding with heat sinks and back purging is a must and the comment of the weld is the toughest part of the weld is the most ridiculous thing to say (inexperience welders comment) because where does it crack when it doesnt crack at the weld??? ............ yeah you guessed right right beside it at the heat affected zone that a bad welder overcooked and still claims his weld is far superior because it didnt break. a good prepped part before and after a weld should keep the material properties close to original and post heat treatment should relief from internal stresses.
> 
> I have seen people make better arch welds than most people Tig welds so its all bout knowing your stuff acquired by years of experience.


I'll go with what you say, i am by no means a welder and i don't pretend to be one. Haha. Thats why i bought my manifold. I probably shouldn't have said it when referring to tig welding and manifolds. I just said it from friends who are welders who have told me about stick and mig welding more industrial applications where as the failure will usually tear the metal next to the weld when under heavy load. This also isn't high heat applications and such, just welds that see lots of stress in terms of weight. Once again though i am no welder by any means. My buddy who is a fabricator welder and myself fabricate everything on my car and he does all the welding. :thumbup:


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## Slapbladder (Feb 1, 2006)

Grow up chaps..so you are calling people who work with metal/welders etc thick??..music references have f**k all to do with the thread content we are discussing. When you have stopped being keyboard warriors and actually got your fingernails dirty and not paid someone to build your car then your voice has some weight to discussions like this....not my mate said this, a friend told me that....

When you have welded your own manifolds/pipework let me know....I am telling you that tubular manifolds like the one above will crack through heat cycles and vibration....the stainless is thin compared to a cast unit and IS more prone to cracking. They will more than likely crack on or around the weld sites....the other issue are EGT's and crap mapping/software.

some pics of the pipework and changes on my 3.6 Turbo....YES welded by myself and YES rod was used....


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

^^^Troll sauce, slcturbo flavor.

First of all I built my car, myself. 

Secondly, good for you that you built your car yourself. I believe Andy (92g60gti) built his car himself as well. He's local and I've seen his car multiple times.

Finally, your welds look great painted black, it let's us see the quality very clearly. Your welds aren't done in any very high stress areas, so the only thing they need to accomplish is not let any leaks happen.

Props to you for welding, learning curve for me is steeper than I thought.


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## Slapbladder (Feb 1, 2006)

not painted chap....its a ceramic coating....

as i said 95% of people commenting on this thread have never picked up a TIG torch let alone built their own tubular manifold....

speculation, hearsay and 3rd party information does not make a good post...


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Why make presumptions?

Paging tigninja


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## MKIII_96 (Nov 25, 2006)

my2000APB said:


> im lookign for any pics or other info on building a twin scroll equal length exhaust manifold for a 24v vrt


people also run 2 pipes off the stock manifold to a divided t4 flange


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

MKIII_96 said:


> people also run 2 pipes off the stock manifold to a divided t4 flange


And run in the 10s with em too.


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

MKIII_96 said:


> people also run 2 pipes off the stock manifold to a divided t4 flange


Ram horn style mani. not so sure about that design efficiency, it seems to work though


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Slapbladder said:


> speculation, hearsay and 3rd party information does not make a good post...


How about you speculating from an overexposed picture with no clear view of the welds that the "eurojet" manifold was fuse welded and weak? It's sch40 pipe ... not significantly thinner than any decent cast manifold (if a cast manifold is much thicker than sch40 pipe then it's better suited for a boat anchor).

As for me, I have personally never built a tubular manifold, but I do have a tig and basic knowledge of material behavior. By the way, your fabrication and fitment looks nice... but the pictures don't really reveal the weld quality 

edit - I should also say that I agree that a quality cast manifold should outlast any fabricated manifold. However, a quality fabricated manifold should last a very long time also. I've seen cast manifolds fail due to poor casting quality/porosity and I've seen fabricated manifolds fail due to poor prep/welding/fitment, etc... nothing is bulletproof.


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## Slapbladder (Feb 1, 2006)

if a cast manifold has 2-3mm wall thickness like the stainless pipe then its junk and will crack.....


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## pileofredparts (Mar 20, 2009)

real race cars use manifolds out of .065" 321 

not cheap garbage chinese ":stainless"

i also have a tig, but i think the difference is I have a brain


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## GT42r_Hatch (Nov 28, 2005)

Slapbladder said:


> Lol show me one with a lifetime warranty!
> 
> Cast are far less likely to crack...i know from first hand all about stainless, fabrication, tig welding and metalology...i know they may spool better but as I said above its not worth it for the gains. Also the tig welding on the manifold above is just fused together and doesn't look like any wire has been added which is a weak weld.....but I am sure the lifetime warranty will cover it....yawn



Well considering i've built all the manifolds pictured in this threadt, let me say this...All of my manifolds have a lifetime warranty to the original buyer. Your assumptions are horribly wrong. First off you will lose spool with a tubular compared to a cast manifold, the tubular will blow the log type cast out of the water top end however. That manifold above was welded with 1/16 filler rod btw  Just like all my manifolds, when i say all I'm talking about 4-5 a week on average for the past 7 years, so please don't question my experience....yawn

Cast has its place, however i make my living selling hardcore race products for customers that want the best in performance. Go troll else where:wave:


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## Slapbladder (Feb 1, 2006)

GT42r_Hatch said:


> Go troll else where:wave:


Who's trolling?....lol


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## GT42r_Hatch (Nov 28, 2005)

Slapbladder said:


> Who's trolling?....lol


Says the guy posting incorrect information and assumptions....


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## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

GT42r_Hatch said:


> First off you will lose spool with a tubular compared to a cast manifold, the tubular will blow the log type cast out of the water top end however.


That depends on how you design it, but in general(here on the forum), when using divided manifolds , they are used with bigger turbo’s, but you could as well design a twin-scroll manifold that spools up quicker than he’s tubular brother.

It’s all in the gas speed(not backpressure, which is just a side effect), which is partly the principle of VNT turbo’s, use smaller diameter runners, and the turbo will spool-up quicker, but you’ll lose top end. Like with everything, it’s a trade of, quicker spool-up or higher top end power.

But the main reason for using ‘even length runner’ twin-scroll manifolds is not for higher flow, but to have evenly spaced, not too close to each other(240°) pulses, recovering max pulse velocity energy, which enhances the turbine efficiency.


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## GT42r_Hatch (Nov 28, 2005)

I understand that..im talking apples to apples, say cast log open vs tubular long runner open, or twin scroll cast vs twin scroll tubular. I've done some testing on the evo platform with the factory style twin scroll turbo.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

MarcoVR6SC said:


> That depends on how you design it, but in general(here on the forum), when using divided manifolds , they are used with bigger turbo’s, but you could as well design a twin-scroll manifold that spools up quicker than he’s tubular brother.


While I agree with everything you've said, I think his comments are based on general experience across several engine platforms. I think if you see a cast manifold spooling slower than a tubular manifold, that's probably the exception, not the norm.

As a point of reference, over the past ~5 years gt42r_hatch has built several variants of tubular vr6 turbo manifolds, so I think he's well aware of most of the different variables in manifold design. As an example, the various vr6 configurations I can remember him building are:

- open housing, runner compensated, 1.5" pipe t4
- open housing, 1.25" pipe t3 and t4
- divided housing, 1.25" pipe t4
- v-band housing, 1.25" pipe
- ...


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

sweet lots of good info and some stupid ****
but its ok

we are building a 24v twin scroll mani for a longitudinal vrt setup
ill update as its made


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

The only time I have seen manifolds crack is when the downpipes or dump tubes hit the body or subframes. You cannot use the manifold for a motor mount.


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

TIGninja said:


> The only time I have seen manifolds crack is when the downpipes or dump tubes hit the body or subframes. You cannot use the manifold for a motor mount.


correct :thumbup::thumbup:, which goes with what I said too about worn or too soft motor mounts, they flex therefore you put more movement on the engine which puts more stress on the mani and if the downpipe touches the subframe its like hammering on the end of the manifold every time you step on the gas.


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## Grant Fox (Jul 30, 2011)

92g60gti said:


> There you go. There's one with a lifetime warranty. I'll also mention that it is the same EXACT manifold as pictured above. I got it from the fabricator who makes the manifolds for Eurojet. Also before you go talking about what you are not extremely farmiliar with those are extremely good welds on the manifold. The guy who makes them actually used to work for A.F.I. and is an extremely good fabricator/welder. If you have an experienced welder and the welds have been back purged as well, you shouldn't have a prolem.


DO NOT BUY A Eurojet manifold, they are garbage
Mine took 7 months to make, one excuse after another for the delay, definitely not worth the wait or the money paid.
The head flange was banana shaped, not a hope in hell chance of even sitting flat against the cylinder head, I was told by the fabricator that the flange was dressed on a belt sander, as are all his manifolds and would seal 100% without problems, look at the pics, must have been popping some happy pills when he did mine:thumbdown:
The v-band flange was so badly distorted and damaged after welding and grinding that the Tial housing would not even made to the flange anymore.
Take a look in the collector, it's blocking part of the v-band oulet
Internal welds not purged.


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

well im certainly not buying a eurojet one

you could easily get that flange milled flat

but the vband, that sucks


we are working with a pro fab shop and i will update


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

That head flange would straighten right out as soon as you bolt it down and it gets up to temperature once or twice. What exactly is the problem with the v-band flange? And what is your point about the internal welds not being backpurged... how would you ever be able to purge those?


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

leebro61 said:


> That head flange would straighten right out as soon as you bolt it down and it gets up to temperature once or twice. What exactly is the problem with the v-band flange? And what is your point about the internal welds not being backpurged... how would you ever be able to purge those?


so you are saying its ok to have exhaust leaks on the first couple of times you drive the car?

you expect the exhaust manifold gasket to still be there and be functional after a few heat cycles?

you know your car will run right with those massive exhaust leaks before the turbo? 

crap like that pictured above is what breaks all the time. doesnt sit flat so it moves in there and cracks. 

there are hundreds of ways to back purge manifolds and there are thousands of skilled welders that are doing it in this precise moment. thats just a cheaply made mani there. if purged correctly there shoudnt be a need to go inside and put another weld on the inside, it seems that its just hiding something the outer welds didnt do in my opinion like just partial penetration instead of full.

the v-band wastegate flange is flat on one side, its supposed to be round just you know man, its ground on a couple of places too.


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

huichox4 said:


> the v-band wastegate flange is flat on one side, its supposed to be round just you know man, its ground on a couple of places too.


I think he's talking about the end of the pipe where the Vband flange is welded to.

I wonder will it close the gap if he bolted it down. That head flange is pretty thick to straigten out.


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

Capt.Dreadz said:


> I think he's talking about the end of the pipe where the Vband flange is welded to.
> 
> I wonder will it close the gap if he bolted it down. That head flange is pretty thick to straigten out.


ohh ok, well thats the only place that he could put an inside weld to close that gap in the inside, those flanges are slip on flanges so the pipe slides in there and its easier to weld to the pipe, but still thats a disgusting flange.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

huichox4 said:


> so you are saying its ok to have exhaust leaks on the first couple of times you drive the car?
> 
> you expect the exhaust manifold gasket to still be there and be functional after a few heat cycles?
> 
> ...


Easy dude. In my opinion (and I'm sure everyone else will agree), he should not have been sent the manifold that way, and he shouldn't have had to wait 7 months for it, but stuff happens and this warped flange is an easy fix. The first and easiest solution would be to take it to a machine shop and pay them $30 to surface the flange, then ask eurojet to refund the shop fee. If that isn't practical, then I would suggest trying to "straighten" the flange as I described above. I've straightened one myself that way and it worked fine, and as best as I could tell it never leaked even on first startup. 

About not being able to backpurge the internal welds, I'm not talking about the welds on the runner, I'm talking about the welds on the inside where the runner meets the headflange. Since he showed a picture of those welds under his comment, I was under the impression that is what he was referring to, as I'm sure the runner welds themselves were backpurged. You can even see the gold/orange color in the interior weld if you look down into the collector... if the runner welds weren't purged I'd expect to see gray looking welds. Finally, the reason for these interior welds is to "fill" a backward facing step that arises from trying to quite literally fit a round peg onto an oval hole. There is nothing structural or mysterious about it. Usually I think those are ported smooth, but it seems like this manifold must have slipped past quality control.



huichox4 said:


> the v-band wastegate flange is flat on one side, its supposed to be round just you know man, its ground on a couple of places too.


Obviously... but what is the fatal flaw that prevents the turbo from being bolted up? That 1/16" flat spot isn't going to affect the function of the flange one bit. 

Again, I'll reiterate... he paid good money for the manifold and shouldn't have to deal with these issues. However, if these are the biggest problems he has to deal with on a turbo build then quite frankly I'm jealous :wave:


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

leebro61 said:


> Easy dude. In my opinion (and I'm sure everyone else will agree), he should not have been sent the manifold that way, and he shouldn't have had to wait 7 months for it, but stuff happens and this warped flange is an easy fix. The first and easiest solution would be to take it to a machine shop and pay them $30 to surface the flange, then ask eurojet to refund the shop fee. If that isn't practical, then I would suggest trying to "straighten" the flange as I described above. I've straightened one myself that way and it worked fine, and as best as I could tell it never leaked even on first startup.
> 
> About not being able to backpurge the internal welds, I'm not talking about the welds on the runner, I'm talking about the welds on the inside where the runner meets the headflange. Since he showed a picture of those welds under his comment, I was under the impression that is what he was referring to, as I'm sure the runner welds themselves were backpurged. You can even see the gold/orange color in the interior weld if you look down into the collector... if the runner welds weren't purged I'd expect to see gray looking welds. Finally, the reason for these interior welds is to "fill" a backward facing step that arises from trying to quite literally fit a round peg onto an oval hole. There is nothing structural or mysterious about it. Usually I think those are ported smooth, but it seems like this manifold must have slipped past quality control.
> 
> ...


ok I thought you were fine with those flaws. yeah they are repairable, there I agree but for the money paid I bet you could also agree that the manufacturer of the mani not only pay for someone to fix it but for the time invested by you finding someone to fix it if they dont want to exchange it or refund the money paid for it.

you are right about the welds inside, to blend the edge of the flange with the pipe but the left port just looks like my first tig welds when you go out of control and make holes in the material and put blobs al over to cover your mess. 

didnt really wanted to come at you like that but I cant tolerate that type of quality in expensive pieces.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

huichox4 said:


> you are right about the welds inside, to blend the edge of the flange with the pipe but the left port just looks like my first tig welds when you go out of control and make holes in the material and put blobs al over to cover your mess.


I got pretty frustrated the other day on some internal aluminum welds on a pipe/flange, lol, so I can relate to your experience. In this case, there isn't a lot of real estate in the oval ports once you've got the torch in there... and it's thick steel, so I really don't think any holes were blown/covered. Again, those welds are purely to add filler material and usually they are ground smooth.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

leebro61 said:


> I got pretty frustrated the other day on some internal aluminum welds on a pipe/flange, lol, so I can relate to your experience. In this case, there isn't a lot of real estate in the oval ports once you've got the torch in there... and it's thick steel, so I really don't think any holes were blown/covered. Again, those welds are purely to add filler material and usually they are ground smooth.


This is exactly how I weld the runners to the flanges as well. Its the only way to make a strong weld at the flange where the runner shapes are not round. It also serves to blend the odd shapes to the runner which is round. 

It does look like the head flange was rocked a little bit when it was belt sanded and thats what caused the head flange to not be flat. Its not a real big deal as it is thick enough to resurface again. 

The little grind on the V band flange is probably to give enough clearance to get the clamp in there while the WG is on. Thats not going to hurt anything unless the surface where the flange mates up to the WG is warped.


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## Grant Fox (Jul 30, 2011)

TIGninja said:


> This is exactly how I weld the runners to the flanges as well. Its the only way to make a strong weld at the flange where the runner shapes are not round. It also serves to blend the odd shapes to the runner which is round.
> 
> It does look like the head flange was rocked a little bit when it was belt sanded and thats what caused the head flange to not be flat. Its not a real big deal as it is thick enough to resurface again.
> 
> The little grind on the V band flange is probably to give enough clearance to get the clamp in there while the WG is on. Thats not going to hurt anything unless the surface where the flange mates up to the WG is warped.


When I paid US$1400 for a "top quality piece with lifetime warranty", I do not expect such a poor quality product which should not have all these faults.
Since the flange was so badly distorted, it should have been machined flat before shipping to me.
That's not the wastegate flange that is shown, it's the v-band flange to mate to the Tial SS turbine housing, but it does not mate anymore, because it's so badly damaged and distorted.
The v-band outlet flange is also partially blocked by the collector outlet, which is too small:screwy:
This manifold is a VR6 12 valve V-band manifold that was advertised and sold by Eurojet, fabricated by Jesse, if you search you will find all the original threads concerning this manifold have been deleted by Eurojet. I wonder why:thumbdown:


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

It's a custom jig to machine the flange after welding. Which is why we get the belt sander.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Grant Fox said:


> When I paid US$1400 for a "top quality piece with lifetime warranty", I do not expect such a poor quality product which should not have all these faults.
> Since the flange was so badly distorted, it should have been machined flat before shipping to me.
> That's not the wastegate flange that is shown, it's the v-band flange to mate to the Tial SS turbine housing, but it does not mate anymore, because it's so badly damaged and distorted.
> The v-band outlet flange is also partially blocked by the collector outlet, which is too small:screwy:
> This manifold is a VR6 12 valve V-band manifold that was advertised and sold by Eurojet, fabricated by Jesse, if you search you will find all the original threads concerning this manifold have been deleted by Eurojet. I wonder why:thumbdown:


Yeah, we heard your complaints in your first post. Do you want suggestions on how to fix the manifold and make it 100% functional/useful or do you just want to vent? Either is okay, but just let us know up front so we don't waste time trying to help you if that's not what you're looking for.

Can you elaborate more on the blockage issue? Are you meaning that the collector is somehow blocking flow into the turbo or something in the collector is blocking flow to the wastegate?


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Grant Fox said:


> When I paid US$1400 for a "top quality piece with lifetime warranty", I do not expect such a poor quality product which should not have all these faults.
> Since the flange was so badly distorted, it should have been machined flat before shipping to me.
> That's not the wastegate flange that is shown, it's the v-band flange to mate to the Tial SS turbine housing, but it does not mate anymore, because it's so badly damaged and distorted.
> The v-band outlet flange is also partially blocked by the collector outlet, which is too small:screwy:
> This manifold is a VR6 12 valve V-band manifold that was advertised and sold by Eurojet, fabricated by Jesse, if you search you will find all the original threads concerning this manifold have been deleted by Eurojet. I wonder why:thumbdown:


Im sorry I was offering a solution for your problem. I was not trying to justify what you got for the money you spent.


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## pileofredparts (Mar 20, 2009)

Last time I had a flange machined like that it was $90 not $30

That manifold is flawed. Either send it back and let them fix it or they should send a replacement.


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

To be honest, i'll be a bit pee'd off if i had to wait 7 months for a manifold that was flawed. That being said, i would take it to a machine shop and have them fix it rather then sending it back even though this 100% falls under the Warranty.The million dollar question is was it bought to the Fab./EJ's attention? Tell them it's not satisfactory & you want a replacement or for them to fix the problem. 

There's no need to vent. sh*t happens. Out of all the mani's they make, no one can expect them all to be perfect. Yea, it shouldn't have went out like that but the bottom line is, what are THEY (EJ/Fabr.) gonna do about it? You can't expect them to do much after you're telling people not to buy from them. 

Venting on Vortex should be the last resort. When you've exhausted all avenues.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

That manifold is unacceptable. Return to vendor.

_Note: and I really don't give a sh*t who can fix it._


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> That manifold is unacceptable. Return to vendor.
> 
> _Note: and I really don't give a sh*t who can fix it._


i agree, it should have been sent back same day it was recieved


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

my2000APB said:


> i agree, it should have been sent back same day it was recieved


Agree. I think it will be a bit difficult to send it back now as he's bad mouthed them pretty hard since he got it.
I like to see GT42r_Hatch's response to this.


In the meantime, are there any other people/places making these. I have no interest as my 24v is in the shed waiting for me to swap it into something. But i'm curious none the less.

I think *VR6-GT42RS* is selling one.
















his post say's it's made for a 44mm or bigger WG & he wants $1k euro


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

If I was going to build one I would build a sidewinder style (those are my favorites)


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

TIGninja said:


> If I was going to build one I would build a sidewinder style (those are my favorites)


what do youmean sidewinder style?


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

my2000APB said:


> what do youmean sidewinder style?




















And the most expensive import engine ever built. Total waste of money if you ask me. All that for 1500hp


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

cool ill get some pics of my setup and engie bay and pick your brains about location of turbo etc


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

my2000APB said:


> cool ill get some pics of my setup and engie bay and pick your brains about location of turbo etc


I gave all my brains to my children. You will have to ask them


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## euro-sudaka (Aug 22, 2006)

Next couple of days im starting mine, it's a 12v divided housing. Obviously is getting back purged, and it's my first turbo manifold. I have experience welding tankers and food industry stuff, but no manifolds under my belt. Im waiting on the headflange and also having second thoughts on the 1.5" elbows and pipes, should of gone 1.25" instead.. what do you guys think ?? :screwy:


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Go 1.25" for a vr6.


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

leebro61 said:


> Go 1.25" for a vr6.


why do say that?


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## euro-sudaka (Aug 22, 2006)

the turbo is a gt4088r... with a 1.19 housing on the hot side...once that thing begins to spool a crazy amount of air, the 1.5" will be fine... now i just have to order a few parts for my back purge set up and hopefully if time allows i can start it this weekend... won't lie... im nervous and exited to see how it turns out...


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

my2000APB said:


> why do say that?


It fits the exhaust ports much better and its easier to work with. It will make the collector nicer to fit up and it will be marginally lighter. As an added benefit, the even and odd runners wont be touching on the head flange. It will also give you more clearance on the studs, so its easier to install. From a performance standpoint i think its a winner also.


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

leebro61 said:


> It fits the exhaust ports much better and its easier to work with. It will make the collector nicer to fit up and it will be marginally lighter. As an added benefit, the even and odd runners wont be touching on the head flange. It will also give you more clearance on the studs, so its easier to install. From a performance standpoint i think its a winner also.


runner touching>? they wont be ahaha

its a very small difference for install clearances


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

D


my2000APB said:


> runner touching>? they wont be ahaha
> 
> its a very small difference for install clearances


if you were building a 12v manifold they certainly would be. I cant remember if you are the op (im posting from my phone and its slow) so if you are and youre building a 24v then disregard that point. Even if you are building a 24v manifold id still probably go 1.25", but what do i know...


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

leebro61 said:


> D
> 
> if you were building a 12v manifold they certainly would be. I cant remember if you are the op (im posting from my phone and its slow) so if you are and youre building a 24v then disregard that point. Even if you are building a 24v manifold id still probably go 1.25", but what do i know...


ah yes thanks i forgto about the 12v'ers being offset and clsoer to each other in spots

we are building a full race only mani so 1.5" it is


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## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

leebro61 said:


> Coming from someone who was actually there the day the manifold pictured above was welded, it definitely had filler rod. By the way, *it's metallurgy, not metalology* :facepalm:
> 
> I'd love to see pics of your work :thumbup:


first thing i noticed from him in that mess of words.

is Jesse the one who welded that manifold?


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

bump


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

anyone have more pics?


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

Lol'd @ the eurojet manifold.:sly:

You can say what you want about never being able to deliver the exact same quality every time, but i can't even figure out how they had the guts to send that away.
You either take yourself serious about delivering a quality product, or you don't.

I'm planning on building my own ramhorn-manifold, in combination with proted log mani's.

Example 1:

















Example 2:

















I'm more i favor of the first one, but with better welds


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## boost_addict (Dec 4, 2009)

Slapbladder said:


> Lol show me one with a lifetime warranty!
> 
> Cast are far less likely to crack...i know from first hand all about stainless, fabrication, tig welding and metalology...i know they may spool better but as I said above its not worth it for the gains. Also the tig welding on the manifold above is just fused together and doesn't look like any wire has been added which is a weak weld.....but I am sure the lifetime warranty will cover it....yawn


this guy is building a beast.. a cast manifold WILL NOT CUT IT on his build.. see here
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=40366

also EVERY reputable fab shop offer lifetime warranty on tubular manifolds.(full race, agtronic, force fed, jm fabrication who will make vw ones even tho he is more dsm shop)


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## boost_addict (Dec 4, 2009)

speaking of which i thought u were fabbing a turbo mani??

heres a link to another nice one on here not twin scroll but vband mmm
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4978841-First-of-it-s-kind


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

boost_addict said:


> this guy is building a beast.. a cast manifold WILL NOT CUT IT on his build.. see here
> http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=40366


i concur


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## boost_addict (Dec 4, 2009)

do you have anymore pics of the DP tunnel that are not in the thread? i am contemplating doing the same on mine..


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

boost_addict said:


> do you have anymore pics of the DP tunnel that are not in the thread? i am contemplating doing the same on mine..


post in my mg threadand i can dig some more up or take more

tech discussion deserves to be at mg not here


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## boost_addict (Dec 4, 2009)

i concur. but hush about mg, we may bring unwanted kotexers


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

it is in the works


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## gnihton (Jul 8, 2005)

any updates on this?? Im trying to source a manifold for my t4 twin scroll turbo...


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## MKIII_96 (Nov 25, 2006)

gnihton said:


> any updates on this?? Im trying to source a manifold for my t4 twin scroll turbo...


Contact JDL auto designs. They may be able to help you


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Slapbladder said:


> i know from first hand all about stainless, fabrication, tig welding and metalology...


Uh-O! We've got ourselves a "Vortexpert metalologist" in our midst!


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

gnihton said:


> any updates on this?? Im trying to source a manifold for my t4 twin scroll turbo...


Ya update incoming tonight


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## gnihton (Jul 8, 2005)

I think I found one  http://www.turbozentrum.de/en/exhau...ll-t4-flange-2x-mv-s-wg-flange-steel/a-28499/ 










Also JBS http://www.jbsautodesigns.co.uk/content/29/r32-turbo-kits has a twin scroll turbo kit...


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

gnihton said:


> I think I found one  http://www.turbozentrum.de/en/exhau...ll-t4-flange-2x-mv-s-wg-flange-steel/a-28499/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
runners look waay to long, especials they are side of the head 

needs equal length to make the big dfference


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## TheZooKeeper (Jan 28, 2009)

You mean like this  I know its a 12V but im sure a 24V can be done


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## 6765VR6 (Jul 30, 2009)

Ed at FFE Racing made this one for my 24v 2.8l VR6 Audi S4. Car made 911+ whp blowing the tires off and destroying a pair of brand new Hoosier drag radials. Precision 7285, 35 lbs, BDF head, schrick 268/264, motec m600, ethanol, and Shane T. tuning. That hit was probably at least high 900's by the look of the dyno/wheel speed where the bad spinning was obvious. The manifold is nothing short of a work of art, and the spool is perfect for an 85mm turbine inducer and 1.28 divided housing.


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