# CLA vs. A3 UK Review



## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

A review of the 2.0 TDI A3 Sedan and the CLA diesel. Note the common thread in the UK reviews of these cars is that the CLA simply does not feel as refined as the A3, in particular with regard to the suspension, engine noise and interior components. 

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/advice/news/2013/october/twin-test-audi-a3-20-tdi-sport-saloon-vs-mercedes-benz-cla-220-cdi-sport/


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Are you as surprised as I am that MBUSA has moved as many of these as they claim to have moved already?


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## Canthoney (Aug 5, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> Are you as surprised as I am that MBUSA has moved as many of these as they claim to have moved already?


Gives you a idea for how well the A3 is going to do.


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## Fellow Gaucho (Aug 3, 2011)

Dan Halen said:


> Are you as surprised as I am that MBUSA has moved as many of these as they claim to have moved already?


How many? 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

2,300 units in ten days: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mercedes-benz-delivers-banner-q3-174500325.html.

It went on sale September 20.


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## tagsvags (Nov 25, 2005)

Canthoney said:


> Gives you a idea for how well the A3 is going to do.


I think Audi will do better with the A3 and S3 sedans as MB is doing. Sure hope so, 30K-35K for the A3 and will jump in with both feet. Hate the wait though.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Actually, I am not surprised they've sold that number of CLAs. I just returned from a test drive and am working on a write up now.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

The Tapatalk preview cut off before "write up now." I was getting concerned that the end of that was "deal to purchase."


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> The Tapatalk preview cut off before "write up now." I was getting concerned that the end of that was "deal to purchase."


Ha! See my new post with a review: http://forums.fourtitude.com/showth...des-CLA-250-Review-and-what-it-means-for-Audi


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

tagsvags said:


> I think Audi will do better with the A3 and S3 sedans as MB is doing. Sure hope so, 30K-35K for the A3 and will jump in with both feet. Hate the wait though.


Audi needs to hurry up before MB runs away with the market!


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## brookside (Jan 11, 2012)

Here in KC, my local Merc dealers debuted the car, a silver one, during "First Fridays" gallery openings in the downtown Crossroads art district. The car was parked on the street in front of what used to be warehouses now converted into hip galleries and restaurants. It's a kind of youthful scene
with bands playing in parking lots, street performers, food trucks and lots of people just walking around digging the atmosphere.
The crowd around the car was pretty thick- (sorry- no pics) the Benz guys had a couple sales people there and they seemed to be handling a lot of questions from people. Whether they sold any cars that nite, I don't know.
Smart move to capitalize on the big crowds who gather at what for us is a cultured urban and fashionable event.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

caliatenza said:


> Audi needs to hurry up before MB runs away with the market!


And to think, we saw the A3 sedan in concept form in *2011*

The release of this car has been painfully protracted, and it serves Audi right if they miss market share for being so glacially slow.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> And to think, we saw the A3 sedan in concept form in *2011*
> 
> The release of this car has been painfully protracted, and it serves Audi right if they miss market share for being so glacially slow.


It's hard to disagree, at face value. We know the reasons it is the way it is, but that doesn't make it any less of an issue in the marketplace. Just look at YTD A3 sales, and it becomes obvious how long the A3 has really been missing from the lineup.

... though, to be fair, this is a brand new car and segment for Audi to the average buyer. The A3 sportback was relatively unknown in the market, and those who did know about it may not even consider it to be a comparable car to the sedan we'll see soon. I imagine Audi is hoping the mainstream audience views it in such a way, at least.

Just think about how long VW has been without a seven-passenger SUV. Or something smaller than a barge of a Golf in a sea of Fits, Yarises (Yari?), Sonics, and Fiestas...

The story line there is that such things can become realities when the NAFTA plants are on-line. We always seem to be waiting on a plant. :laugh:


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> ... though, to be fair, this is a brand new car and segment for Audi to the average buyer. The A3 sportback was relatively unknown in the market, and those who did know about it may not even consider it to be a comparable car to the sedan we'll see soon. I imagine Audi is hoping the mainstream audience views it in such a way, at least.


Seems to me they should have kept the A3 concept under wraps and not tipped their hand to MB regarding entering the segment, and then worked on maybe trying to continue selling the sportbacks up until its availability. If the sedan was designed essentially for China and the USA, it should have been introduced here FIRST.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> Seems to me they should have kept the A3 concept under wraps and not tipped their hand to MB regarding entering the segment, and then worked on maybe trying to continue selling the sportbacks up until its availability. If the sedan was designed essentially for China and the USA, it should have been introduced here FIRST.


I can't dispute that one bit. :thumbup:


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## zigster38 (Jun 20, 1999)

*CLA mileage = 38*

!


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## zigster38 (Jun 20, 1999)

*CLA mileage = 38*

Cla Mileage comes in at 38. That's surprising. If the a3 comes in around 35ish (highway) , that's an uphill marketing battle. The a3's suspension etc better be a WHOLE lot better if they want to match sales.


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## MickSF (May 22, 2008)

ChrisFu said:


> And to think, we saw the A3 sedan in concept form in *2011*
> 
> The release of this car has been painfully protracted, and it serves Audi right if they miss market share for being so glacially slow.


I agree Chris. Why show it so far in advance if you are not prepared to sell it for years? Almost makes it seem older than it is as we saw it so long ago.... I still hope it is a great car, although I wish they were going to sell the Sportback and a stick version alongside the sedan. When I say Sportback, I mean a regular gas version 2.0T Quattro.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> Are you as surprised as I am that MBUSA has moved as many of these as they claim to have moved already?


Not really. They did their homework just like AoA, this is an underserved market (smaller, entry-level, premium sedan). Seems like a no brainer too, when I remember how wildly popular the B5 A4 was.

Too bad for AoA that MB got here first with CLA. (I still don't understand why VAQ moves at a glacial pace when it comes to the 2nd largest auto market (US))


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Waterfan said:


> Not really. They did their homework just like AoA, this is an underserved market (smaller, entry-level, premium sedan). Seems like a no brainer too, when I remember how wildly popular the B5 A4 was.
> 
> Too bad for AoA that MB got here first with CLA. (I still don't understand why VAQ moves at a glacial pace when it comes to the 2nd largest auto market (US))


There are a lot of reasons to take your time: one of the ways that Burger King successfully built their network was by purposely waiting for McDonalds to move into a neighborhood, then study the success/failure of that franchise before granting one in close proximity. 

There's two ways to grow: profitably or to just throw stuff against the wall. What you have to recognize is that Audi has a smaller dealership, logistics, parts, training, manufacturing network in North America compared to MB and BMW. A new model launch isn't just building a car, putting it on a boat, shipping over some brochures and...profit! There's an immense network that has to be built behind that car. Audi is going to be adding anywhere from 12,000 - 20,000 units annually once this car goes on sale. They better have the logistics in place to support these cars or they're going to wind up with some severely upset customers when they need parts, service, etc.

Also keep in mind that Audi is selling every vehicle it can build, far more profitably, in the EU. We've got new factories being built to supply the Americas, but it takes time. 

Add to all of this a completely new design, engineering and assembly process at the same time and you've got a recipe for long delays. 

Again, I'm not trying to be an apologist, but I understand that what's happening right now is that Audi is putting all of the pieces into place to support what is essentially a doubling of sales in the Americas within the next 5 years.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> There are a lot of reasons to take your time: one of the ways that Burger King successfully built their network was by purposely waiting for McDonalds to move into a neighborhood, then study the success/failure of that franchise before granting one in close proximity.


Bad example - BK is folding left right and center around here ha


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> There are a lot of reasons to take your time: one of the ways that Burger King successfully built their network was by purposely waiting for McDonalds to move into a neighborhood, then study the success/failure of that franchise before granting one in close proximity.
> 
> There's two ways to grow: profitably or to just throw stuff against the wall. What you have to recognize is that Audi has a smaller dealership, logistics, parts, training, manufacturing network in North America compared to MB and BMW. A new model launch isn't just building a car, putting it on a boat, shipping over some brochures and...profit! There's an immense network that has to be built behind that car. Audi is going to be adding anywhere from 12,000 - 20,000 units annually once this car goes on sale. They better have the logistics in place to support these cars or they're going to wind up with some severely upset customers when they need parts, service, etc.
> 
> ...


I have no problem believing those are the realities, but I won't excuse them for it. To me it seems like a terrible bit of corporate mismanagement to be so ill-equipped for getting to market first and profitably in the second largest auto market. This is more of a VWAG criticism than an AoA one. I'm sure AoA has very little influence in the equation - VWAG seems very command and control from my point of view.

I will excuse them if Audi are working on larger, more profitable projects and the US A3 needs to be lower in priority so as not to strain their smaller US network. (Like a new CUV or SUV)

I understand the concept of smart follower. That strategy hinges on introducing a superior product and service (or value package) in order to win share of sales from the established competitor(s). Maybe A3 is a superior product, maybe Audi can either win or rise above a price/value war. Or maybe becuse they are launching a more profitable model the A3 can afford to launch later.

"I understand that what's happening right now is that Audi is putting all of the pieces into place to support what is essentially a doubling of sales in the Americas within the next 5 years." I get this, and I agree they are FINALLY moving in the right direction. I just can't get over the fact that is has taken them SO LONG to come to this realization. I admit this is an emotional reaction as much as it is an objective one.


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## brennok (Jun 5, 2007)

Rudy_H said:


> Bad example - BK is folding left right and center around here ha


Are you sure they are closing? Around here they have been shutting them down to completely gut and renovate them much like McDs did.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

They have realized they absolutely must redefine themselves if continued success is to be expected. All of ours have recently seen similar overhaul work.

I think I recall reading something about alarmingly dismal same-store sales for them in recent periods.

I think the should pin it on that egregiously poor decision with their fries several years ago. They have some new fries as of a couple weeks ago, but I haven't tried them.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> They have realized they absolutely must redefine themselves if continued success is to be expected. All of ours have recently seen similar overhaul work.
> 
> I think I recall reading something about alarmingly dismal same-store sales for them in recent periods.
> 
> I think the should pin it on that egregiously poor decision with their fries several years ago. They have some new fries as of a couple weeks ago, but I haven't tried them.


i love the original chicken sandwhiches at BK...but then one time, they were too salty . After that i stopped eating those at BK.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

Well this segment is going to be full very soon once BMW brings the 2 series coupe/convertible and 4 door gran coupe. If BMW could announce bringing a manual for the 2 series gran coupe I would wait. As for the a3, from my perspective, the wait between the concept and production car was absolutely ridiculous. (They are doing the same thing with the Quattro concept) To top it off, I got it in my head that the a3 was going to be my next car. Then I found out there's no manual or sportback! Talk about painful.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

AutoExpress review A3 vs CLA, smaller engines, quick read:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/a3/66430/audi-a3-vs-mercedes-cla


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

brennok said:


> Are you sure they are closing? Around here they have been shutting them down to completely gut and renovate them much like McDs did.


Ya, because the new sign says A&W. I think there is two BK's left in town now of over half million...oddly it's in the same area that there was only one A&W for years. I should drive by the third I am thinking of someday.

Might be just looking for new real estate though, seeing as well I guess on Travis' note, where a McD's it almost seemed a BK was next door, or like 2-3 driveways down from it.

EDIT : I think I'm going to BK for lunch now...


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

BrutusA3 said:


> AutoExpress review A3 vs CLA, smaller engines, quick read:
> http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/a3/66430/audi-a3-vs-mercedes-cla


Starting to see more and more stats.

The key of course though is reviewing the 'base price' and the 'price as tested'. One would assume they had equal options, and can quickly see the divide in price.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Rudy_H said:


> Ya, because the new sign says A&W. I think there is two BK's left in town now of over half million...oddly it's in the same area that there was only one A&W for years. I should drive by the third I am thinking of someday.
> 
> Might be just looking for new real estate though, seeing as well I guess on Travis' note, where a McD's it almost seemed a BK was next door, or like 2-3 driveways down from it.
> 
> EDIT : I think I'm going to BK for lunch now...


i tried those mighty wings at MCD the other day, total crap. I can buy better store bought wings, grilled wings, a lot healthier, and have them at home . Nowadays i just stick to subway and panda express . Back to the car related issues, seems like the A3 is consistently beating the CLA. I have a feeling that will be the same over here. I am really excited for the S3 though; if the price can be kept in the mid 40s range, i would definetly get it .


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

caliatenza said:


> Audi needs to hurry up before MB runs away with the market!


Usually it is an advantage to come to the market after the main competitor has introduced their car, so you can fine tune yours so that yours is better in every respect, since these 2 cars will be head to head competitors for the next 4-6 years (or if it was like the last A3, over 2 generation of the competitors' cars). But in Audi's case, the specs and design has been set to stone way before the CLA has been shown to the public, so MB obviously had the advantage of, especially in the US.

So when the A3 gets introduced in the US, it will not be blowing any doors down because everybody that was anticipating it has already moved on. Its power output, mmi touch are nothing new anymore, even the dash is not revolutionary given that everybody is coming out with configurable dash.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

LWNY said:


> Usually it is an advantage to come to the market after the main competitor has introduced their car, so you can fine tune yours so that yours is better in every respect, since these 2 cars will be head to head competitors for the next 4-6 years (or if it was like the last A3, over 2 generation of the competitors' cars). But in Audi's case, the specs and design has been set to stone way before the CLA has been shown to the public, so MB obviously had the advantage of, especially in the US.
> 
> So when the A3 gets introduced in the US, it will not be blowing any doors down because everybody that was anticipating it has already moved on. Its power output, mmi touch are nothing new anymore, even the dash is not revolutionary given that everybody is coming out with configurable dash.


the CLA is still on the old COMMAND system (All the rest of the cars will be getting or already have the new COMMAND touch system), so Audi has the CLA beat on telematics untill the CLA refresh, which would be in the, well i would say third or 4th model year. Also the Audi system is upgradable, COMMAND isnt.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

caliatenza said:


> the CLA is still on the old COMMAND system (All the rest of the cars will be getting or already have the new COMMAND touch system), so Audi has the CLA beat on telematics untill the CLA refresh, which would be in the, well i would say third or 4th model year. Also the Audi system is upgradable, COMMAND isnt.


Audi's big marketing angle with the A3 will be to highlight the technology, especially its upgradeability. The big question is whether things like this really end up getting people to sign on the dotted line or not. For long-term buyers - upgradeability is a nice thing to have; For 3-4 year leasers...maybe not.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

caliatenza said:


> the CLA is still on the old COMMAND system (All the rest of the cars will be getting or already have the new COMMAND touch system), so Audi has the CLA beat on telematics untill the CLA refresh, which would be in the, well i would say third or 4th model year. Also the Audi system is upgradable, COMMAND isnt.


I don't know that that matters. your average buyer will test drive a car and may make a deal-breaker decision on a truly terrible bad infotainment interface system, but as long as it's workable, they probably won't notice or care in a 15 minute test drive. Lots of people bought Fords before they realized the system wa crap.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> Audi's big marketing angle with the A3 will be to highlight the technology, especially its upgradeability. The big question is whether things like this really end up getting people to sign on the dotted line or not. For long-term buyers - upgradeability is a nice thing to have; For 3-4 year leasers...maybe not.


This is one of those things though I was thinking about, and it's not really worth starting a new thread - but maybe should, in the future when we get our fingers on.

Right now I have a tablet installed in my current car, Nexus 7. Only word I can think of is 'legendary'. I will likely be removing whatever is going to be installed in my Audi, HOWEVER, it will never integrate as nicely as the system Audi provides...it's almost a year away before a decision is made, hopefully the A3 techies get their hands on the system before an expensive decision needs to be made...

1) Google Maps -> Google Now tied through my gmail account, so once I get my new Nexus '5', and Chrome browser, it knows where I want to go before I even tell it.

Example, ordered hockey tickets on my PC, went to my car to grab something from the store, and sitting in Google Now was the directions to the game with the 'would you like me to launch Google Maps and get you there'

2) Torque Pro
3) Songza / Pandora / whatever else floats your boat
4) No need for an extra data plan -> this is what is going to kill anything that Audi offers. When I sit in my car, BT connects my Blackberry to my OEM head unit (where tablet uses AUX inputs), and then the tablet connects to my Blackberry for data via Bluetooth. 

5) Wifi - anything I want to load for videos / music etc I do from my laptop and toss them through WiFi to my 'car'. It's sitting there ready for me when I jump in.

6) Apps for 'my Audi' - haven't obviously tried them based on my list below however...if you check Google Play there are a few others but not sure how relevant to the car itself - service manual? I thought I read somewhere, it was going to be digital as well
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.allstate.audiconsumer&hl=en

7) haven't used this yet, because of how I have my tablet mounted, but Black Box
-> recently I had a motorcycle accident where an idiot in a SUV ran a stop sign. I stopped the bike in time, dropped it from science and left leg not being able to hold the force mass, etc, but the hassles got me to thinking, record everything on the road, makes things an open closed case. Send a copy to the Police and Insurance company and away I go...

Somehow I don't think Audi will be able to keep up with the tablet market with what they can do with their cars.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Great points, Rudy- and I agree overall. Audi is moving in the right direction, but I still don't think they'll keep up with Android's pace.

... unless you're a Verizon victim, in which case you're almost assured to outpace their updates with... anything, really. :facepalm:

Anyway, I'm hoping the automakers are ultimately headed toward a "dumb pipe" acceptance. Give me the trick screen which slides out from the top of the dash, and give it some basic UI logic- but allow it to be overtaken by an Android or iOS device (sorry, BB and WinMo... you're just not there yet) to act as a push screen for the phone's interface. I'm actually willing to guess that Audi's system could get us to that point through its ability to be upgraded, but they'd have to have the desire to offer that. With the new 4G LTE connected car stuff, I can't really see them having that desire.

And are you as tired of the N5 hypebeasting as I am? o.0


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## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

The whole Google maps being tied into my Google maps on my computer is one of the big reasons that I want the new tech.
For the apps and stuff, I wouldn't have any real need.
I don't like touch screens in cars, and having to have a data plan for the tablet is just as bad as having to have one for the car.
I very much like having the control for the MMI right in front of the arm rest.

All the tablets are different thickness, different OS, different OS versions, different dimensions, different CPU, etc, etc, etc...
The only car that I would prefer a tablet in vs a factory system, is something that I built myself...and even then I would just be trying to duplicate what the factory did.

I don't ever see the possibility of a "straight pipe" happening and if it did, I wouldn't want to buy one of those cars for several years.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

Dan Halen said:


> Great points, Rudy- and I agree overall. Audi is moving in the right direction, but I still don't think they'll keep up with Android's pace.
> 
> ... unless you're a Verizon victim, in which case you're almost assured to outpace their updates with... anything, really. :facepalm:
> 
> ...


this push screen will be the last to happen on an Audi, given how much they are against the drive while you do tons of other thing mentality. That's why they never adopted the touch screen even when that was all the vogue in in car nav systems. If you want apps to distract you while you drive, get the mass car mfg's infotaniment units.


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