# So I went to the rollers today.....



## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*So I went to the rollers today.....Plug pics added*

Well after driving my 97 VRT (kinetics stg 1, c2) for 2 weeks (lightly







), i went to go on the dyno today BUT, my a/f's at WOT full boost (7psi), where right at 13.5:1!!!car sitting at idle was 18:1. Obviously, after a 3 second convo with the tuner we decided it probly wasn't a good idea to do some pulls with the afs so lean at WOT.
Besides checking my stock, 268k km







, fuel pump and fp regulator, what else could i check? Also, shouldn't my air fuel be around 12:1? or closer to 11:1?
Thanks for the responses http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by formulavr6 at 10:10 PM 5-27-2007_


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (formulavr6)*

your car is running WAY too lean if those are your real #s.
pump, filter, check the pressure at the fuel rail.


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## mavric (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (jhayesvw)*

11 is too low, its safe but your not going to make power there, 12's are where you want to be http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 20gti1.8turbo02 (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_your car is running WAY too lean if those are your real #s.
pump, filter, check the pressure at the fuel rail.

for sure man .. at idle should be around 14.7 and 12 at wot


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (20gti1.8turbo02)*

Yeah those are real #'s, innovative wideband..
Just checked the fuel pressure, idle is 36 psi, fpr unplugged is 44psi and on the road at WOT it almost climbs to 48 psi...i think the pressure is good, no?
Also, im running the old version 30# software and i have my o2s unplugged (and were when i had the wideband on it), would this make the difference? I have no vac leaks, car idles and runs good and pulls 21 hg vac and maintains steady 6 psi boost...
Thanks for the responses guys!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (formulavr6)*

Anybody else?


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (formulavr6)*

Another thing, i just checked the resistance of my blue temp sensor and it reads 0 ohms cold...i searched and supposed to get 6k ohms cold and 200 ohms hot...would this make it run lean?
Thanks again.


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (formulavr6)*

Nothing?


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## therealgreco (Jan 13, 2005)

yeah might as well change it, my mechanic told me it can mess up fuel because the ecu uses the engine temp in a calculation for a/f ratio.


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (therealgreco)*

Yeah im changing it tomorrow, they're not much money anyway.
Im also running a 2.0 Maf, they are the same as the VR, supposedly...


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (formulavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formulavr6* »_Yeah im changing it tomorrow, they're not much money anyway.
Im also running a 2.0 Maf, they are the same as the VR, supposedly...

You might want to double check it but I thought the 2.0MAF was the same as the VR6 MK4 MAF...
I did a lot of research on this a long while back when I wanted to save a few bucks on my VR6 MAF but then found out it wouldn't work on the MK3 VR6...at least that's what I remember.
You have a mk3 or mk4? 
And no, I'm not claiming this to be gospel...just take a good look at that too.


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

im pretty sure Nate is right.
the mk3s DO NOT have interchangable MAFs in my opinion.
so, get a vr6 maf and see how it goes. borrow a buddies for a few minutes if you have to. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

Was the wideband reading after the cat or before the cat? Having a cat can make the mixture look leaner than it is.
Also, what is the a/f ratio when you are cruising part throttle at 40mph? If its showing 17-18:1 then its pretty close to impossible for the numbers to be correct. The car would misfire and run rough that lean cruising.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

By the way,
How's it running? 
Meaning,
Forget the dyno...how does it "feel"? 
Is it running perfect but showing these weird A/F numbers?


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## momoVR6 (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (formulavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formulavr6* »_Just checked the fuel pressure, idle is 36 psi, fpr unplugged is 44psi 

That's exactly what it should be for the stock 3 bar FPR.


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (formulavr6)*

my stock 3 bar fpr reads 39psi at idle..via my inline gauge.


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (momoVR6)*

Im def gonna check to make sure my MAF is interchangeable.!! And the car ''feels'' good, pulls hard, idles at 800 steady...
Three physical problems:
1. If I bring 2nd to 5200ish rpm full boost and quickly shift into 3rd, the car falls flat on its face for a good 1-2 seconds (enough time to say ''WTF''). Funny thing is, its still boosting during this time, kinda like the car dies for that period, foot 3/4 throttle and nothings going on. sometimes does this for other gears aswell.
2. Cruising at 30-40 mph, 3rd gear, 3200 rpm, theres a constant light buck.
3. The car spark-knocks under boost.
And also the wideband was plugged in where the front o2 usually goes on the dp, pre-cat.
I might add that the first time this setup went WOT was on the wideband, and i held 4th from about 2k to about 5k revs, the afs never went below 13.5:1.
And Eric, i never thought about checking cruising afs, was to worried about wot afs









Again, thanks for the help guys, much appreciated








_Modified by formulavr6 at 8:58 PM 5-27-2007_


_Modified by formulavr6 at 8:58 PM 5-27-2007_


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (formulavr6)*

If its lightly bucking while you cruise then you probably are running a little lean for some reason.
Could be a clogged fuel filter or tired stock fuel pump.
This might sound weird, but do you have all hard pipe going to your turbo or are you using any dryer ducting or anything like that for intake piping?


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... ([email protected])*

Haha, no, its all hard stuff, no leaks and i check my clamps weekly. Fuel filter was changed in january, as i do once a year.
As for the pump, i had a gauge on the fuel rail while driving and under boost, wot, the gauge read 48-50psi, youd think if the pump was bad, the pressure would drop under load...eveything is weird, which is why im here.


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## momoVR6 (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (formulavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formulavr6* »_Another thing, i just checked the resistance of my blue temp sensor and it reads 0 ohms cold...i searched and supposed to get 6k ohms cold and 200 ohms hot...would this make it run lean?
Thanks again.

If it's actually reading 0 resistance then that's definitely a problem. Try checking it with VAGCOM and see what it shows you for coolant temp. Also the Bentley has a graph showing the resistance/temp values.


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (formulavr6)*

I pulled out one plug after idling for ~10 mins (up to op. temp)....and i've also pulled them out (all) after a good run before and they're a shade lighter than this one, still alight coffee colour...
















And pics of the setup...
























Don't hesitate to point out stuff that out of place, notice ive bypassed the charcoal canister and teeing all vacuum needed from the TB nipple...dont know if that makes a difference or not..
Thanks


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (momoVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *momoVR6* »_
If it's actually reading 0 resistance then that's definitely a problem. Try checking it with VAGCOM and see what it shows you for coolant temp. Also the Bentley has a graph showing the resistance/temp values.

Just checked it hot (op. temp) and the resistance is 197.8 ohms, which is what the bentley calls for. But cold it reads 0.


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## momoVR6 (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (formulavr6)*

Ohm meter set to the wrong scale maybe? Either way, compare it to the new one you're putting in. Also I'm pretty sure the 2.0 maf sensor is different than the VR one, that could be your problem.


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (momoVR6)*

Just did a quick search on it and apparently the sensor itself has an identical part # to the vr6 one...How do i check if the one i have is good? I have an OTC genesys scanner i can hook up to it to see the airflow rate at idle and wot....


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## silvrsled (Jan 24, 2005)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (formulavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formulavr6* »_And also the wideband was plugged in where the front o2 usually goes on the dp, pre-cat.


If your wideband is where the stock o2 sensor would normally go, where did you plug the stock o2 sensor in?


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (silvrsled)*

He has the old unplugged o2s program.
I've recently read about a c2 supercharger chip on a turbo car making it run leaner, but thats probably not it.


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... ([email protected])*

Yeah its a turbo chip for sure, im gonna get it on the vag-com this week to see which version it is for sure.








Even if the wideband is showing lean conditions, why are my plugs the perfect colour?? wtf!


_Modified by formulavr6 at 9:32 AM 5-28-2007_


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (formulavr6)*

faulty AFR gauge? it has happend before. 
if the car runs perfect, and feels perfect, and the plugs look perfect, i would stop believing the gauge. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (mikemcnair)*

2 things
1. mk3s may not have the same part # for the maf element, but mk4s do
2. is your DV backward?


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_2 things
1. mk3s may not have the same part # for the maf element, but mk4s do
2. is your DV backward?

i run my DV backwards, but i have the diaphram style(stock) DV. if it is a piston style, running backwards may affect this.


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (jhayesvw)*

1. OK, ill triple check.
2. No its not.
And to Mike, im starting to question the gauge myself....but why is it spark knocking?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (formulavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formulavr6* »_Just did a quick search on it and apparently the sensor itself has an identical part # to the vr6 one...How do i check if the one i have is good? I have an OTC genesys scanner i can hook up to it to see the airflow rate at idle and wot....

I'm going to almost guarantee you that if you are running a 2.0Maf in your mk3 VR6 then this is part of your problem. There was a lot of confusion on this a while back with a lot of ppl trying to get the cheaper maf's for their mk3 VR6...only to find out that they don't work in the mk3's.
The answer is BURIED inside a long thread somewhere (in the MK4 forum I think).


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (formulavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formulavr6* »_
And to Mike, im starting to question the gauge myself....but why is it spark knocking?

not too sure. i agree with nate tho, and that may solve it right there.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (mikemcnair)*

Here's a long thread....
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1
Which contains a link to two other threads that will help you answer your question.
On page 10 another user pulls his mk3 MAF out to see different part numbers...


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (nater)*

I've just im'd VgRt6 on the 2.8 12v forum, he made a couple threads and crossed checked a bunch of part #'s...im awaiting his reply..








Looking at those threads, i must have assumed earlier on that it mk3's they where talking about, they're talking mk4








I actually changed the maf (with a used







2.0 unit) about 6 months ago when i had my Cams/chip. had no issues since then, but the FI might have pushed it beyond it's limits...
Agin thanks for the help guys, really overwhelming










_Modified by formulavr6 at 11:43 AM 5-28-2007_


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2216921
Heres a post i made with a 2.0 MAF in a VR6. OBD1 mind you though. May clear some things up


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Not to drag this entire thing out longer...but it's starting to come back to me now (from my MAF woes...or lack thereof)...
Is your 2L MAF a mk3 2L or mk4 2L?
If you have a mk4 maf in a mk3 it won't work (from what I remember).
As Jeff points out in that thread pubahs just linked to I remember discussing this with him back then...
But I also believe the mk3 2L MAF is just as much $$$$$$. 
So, which do you have? Mk3 or Mk4 maf?
Hope it's mk4...b/c then you have an idea as to what's wrong (at least one idea).
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for an answer.


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*

Its a mk3 2.0 maf, but it could be bad because i picked it up at a local boneyard, no codes though...







the bad wideband idea is starting to grow on me








only codes ive had since the install is:
-o2 related 
-Secondary air related
-misfire 6, and random missfire (but i fixed this by increasing the plug gaps to 0.025'')


_Modified by formulavr6 at 2:01 PM 5-28-2007_


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

Now I know why I am having flashbacks....
These pics are from my own website:
*1998 2L MAF BELOW:*








*1998 MK3 VR6 (was in my car) BELOW:*








*Both side-by-side (mk3 VR6 vs mk3 2L) BELOW:*









Not that this is relevant but this is the mk3 2L *HOUSING* BELOW:








2L housing vs VR6 (both mk3) BELOW:








The part #'s for the mk3 2L MAF and VR6 MAF are different but I'm running the mk3 2L maf also.
I totally forgot.
So, if your part # matches any of mine from the picture then you are DEF good to go as my car runs perfectly. 
Hope it helps.
By the way, I must have a thread on vortex somewhere on this since I took all the pictures...I'll try and find it for you.

*EDIT:* Sorry about the large pics but they are just barely too large so I'll keep 'em.












_Modified by nater at 1:05 PM 5-28-2007_


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*

Perfect, thanx Nater, we've eliminated the maf issue. 
Next step i will try and get a different wideband on there to see if come out with the same results...
Frig, plugs are beautiful, i cant see it running that lean....and there have been many part throttle full boost scenarios in the last few weeks, it would have blown by now runnng that lean, imho. Ive put about 2000 kms on this since the install


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

Another thing that might help..i have my egt mounted right before the turbo on the mani. Readings are 12-1300 degrees F cruising, part throttle full boost I can pin the gauge at 1600 in about 6-7 seconds....
Autometer pyrometer, btw. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thanks again for the support
i wish M. Atwood would chime in here to see what he suggests


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today.....Plug pics added (formulavr6)*

Bump for a reply from M. Atwood


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today.....Plug pics added (formulavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formulavr6* »_Bump for a reply from M. Atwood









who is "M" atwood? do you mean Jeff?


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today.....Plug pics added (mikemcnair)*

I meant Mr. Atwood, yeah Jeff...


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today.....Plug pics added (formulavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formulavr6* »_I meant Mr. Atwood, yeah Jeff...

oooooohhhhhhh lol, my bad.


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## CannuckCorradoVR6T (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

My car still goes lean at cruise and hesitates between fast shifts. Dont really know what causes it, but I suspect the car is still not going into closed loop O2 control. If any part of the air pump system or primary oxygen sensor has thown a CE light, the car will not go into closed loop o2 control. I think I have a broken wire causing my faulty o2 readings. Fix your CE light and report back.
BTW, the bucking I had earlier was due to the turbo rubbing the insulation off some wires (bad front motor mount).


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (CannuckCorradoVR6T)*

Ok, but i have no o2 control, so my setup stays in open loop and runs the mapping from the c2 chip...


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

What is your DV situation? How stiff is it set?
My car bucks at part throttle cruising if I have the stiffest spring in the DV.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Mk3 MAF's: 2L = VR6 (swapable)
re: wideband readings
double check the readings....
~18 at idle??? VR6 will NOT idle or barely idle at this kind of afr.
thus the WOT reading a ~13.5 is likely off as well.
(I have not read the post throughly)
o2 control, is disabled with a missing air pump.
Install the solenoid to get o2 control to work.
o2 control will take care of most slight set-up differences.

Just thoughts.
-Jeff


_Modified by Jefnes3 at 11:36 PM 5-29-2007_


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: So I went to the rollers today..... (mikemcnair)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mikemcnair* »_faulty AFR gauge? it has happend before. 
if the car runs perfect, and feels perfect, and the plugs look perfect, i would stop believing the gauge. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_Mk3 MAF's: 2L = VR6 (swapable)
re: wideband readings
double check the readings....
~18 at idle??? VR6 will NOT idle or barely idle at this kind of afr.
thus the WOT reading a ~13.5 is likely off as well.
(I have not read the post throughly)
o2 control, is disabled with a missing air pump.
Install the solenoid to get o2 control to work.
o2 control will take care of most slight set-up differences.

Just thoughts.
-Jeff

_Modified by Jefnes3 at 11:36 PM 5-29-2007_

Ok, why would i need to plug my solenoid (im assuming its the one for the vacuum near the air pump, please specify







), if my o2's aren't plugged in, i wont get o2 control either way, right?
Thanks again guys, this place is the **** again








Im waiting for one of my father's friend to lend me his innovative wb(different one) off his mustang. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

Could somebody confirm that this vac solenoid needs to be plugged in regardless....and that its the one from the secondary air...
Thanks


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## momoVR6 (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (formulavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formulavr6* »_Could somebody confirm that this vac solenoid needs to be plugged in regardless....and that its the one from the secondary air...
Thanks

Yes it needs to be plugged in for O2 control to work. If your O2s are unplugged then don't worry about it but O2 control will help your AFR at idle and cruise.


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (momoVR6)*

I thought so, thank you.


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

UPDATE......
So here's where im at:
Kinetics stage 1, 6 lbs...
A/F is running 17-18+ :1 while cruising under load
under full boost WOT, A/F never goes below 13.5-14:1
This is verified with two seperate gauges (innovative and AEM uego)
Fuel pressure is as specified and rises to 48ish psi at WOT
Tonight i had the gauge hooked up and tried a couple of things:
1. Unplugged vac at fpr-----Minimal change in af, although a tad richer everywhere in the rev range
2. clamp off the return line (i know, lol).....car ran at 13.5-14:1 at cruising and 10.5-12:1 at WOT....and i almost **** myself, car pulls really hard!!!
Now, I checked the fuel pressure while the return was clamped...gauge pinned at over 100psi!!!!
NOw what?
New pump? it does have 270K kms on it and may have good pressure but lacking volume...
Any input on this new info? Running c2 with 30 lb injectors
Thanks.......


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## VR6OOM (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_Mk3 MAF's: 2L = VR6 (swapable)
re: wideband readings
double check the readings....
~18 at idle??? VR6 will NOT idle or barely idle at this kind of afr.
thus the WOT reading a ~13.5 is likely off as well.
(I have not read the post throughly)
o2 control, is disabled with a missing air pump.
Install the solenoid to get o2 control to work.
o2 control will take care of most slight set-up differences.

Just thoughts.
-Jeff

_Modified by Jefnes3 at 11:36 PM 5-29-2007_

I'm seeing 17-18 at idle too. "Old" software...sai is broken. My afr's don't hit 12's until high in the rpm range. I also get LIGHT bucking between shifts. No vac leaks to speak of.


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (VR6OOM)*

Yeah mine also bucks at cruising and hesitates between fast shifts. But my af's never go below 13.5:1, at least til 5k rpm anyway...


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## VR6OOM (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: (formulavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formulavr6* »_But my af's never go below 13.5:1, at least til 5k rpm anyway...

Same here...then it goes below that right? Maybe we should jump the ball...fix our sai's and then go to the O2 software?


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (VR6OOM)*

Id rather get this thing running right without the sai, im gonna bring up the fuel pressure gradually and see where i get the right A/F's....


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## [email protected] (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_im pretty sure Nate is right.
the mk3s DO NOT have interchangable MAFs in my opinion.
so, get a vr6 maf and see how it goes. borrow a buddies for a few minutes if you have to. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

They actually DO.
Any OBD1/OBD2 VR6/2.0 Maf sensor will work. Even 4 pin ones from an Audi will work.


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

So heres my "data logging":
Stock pressure (44 psi and 49psi wot)
Egts pinned at more than 1600 F in a matter of 6-10 secs. wot
idle - ~18:1 +
cruise - ~17:1
wot - ~ 14:1

80psi (45 wot) fuel pressure:
idle - ~13:1
cruise - ~12:1
wot - ~ 13:1

90 psi (58-60 wot) fuel pressure: (this one ran best)
This one had slow climbing egt's (to 14-1500)
idle - ~11:1
cruise - ~12:1
wot - ~ 12:1

100 psi (60ish wot) fuel pressure:
idle - ~11:1
cruise - ~12:1
wot - ~ 11:1
Is FMU or fp riser time? Or is it find out why my chip isn't giving enough fuel time?

Checked pump volume and its good output
Car idling at 38 psi and drain, the car never stalled or even stumbled and filled a pepsi bottle in about 4-6 seconds....
Thanks for the help, and please help

















_Modified by formulavr6 at 1:23 PM 6-9-2007_


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

Anyone.....?


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

One more thing tonight...
I unplugged the blue coolant temp sensor and ran the car as it is and its the first time i see the af's go below 13:1 (like 12.5ish). This is most likely fooling the ecu thinking the engine is cold...
Im starting to think my chip isnt doing anything for fueling


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

Did you plug in a primary o2 and adapt the chip when installing it or just plugged it in?


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## VR6OOM (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Did you plug in a primary o2 and adapt the chip when installing it or just plugged it in?

He's got the old software...no O2's utilized. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (VR6OOM)*

yep, no o2's


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

Yeah, but you can still plug in the primary o2 and adapt it, not going into boost. Then you unplug it after the adaptation values have settled in.
The reason for not running o2s with the old software is because it would try to bring the car to 14.7:1 a/f at part throttle boost. The new software fixes that, but you can still adapt the car using the o2 on the old software. With the way your car runs, it couldn't hurt.


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Good advice ill try that tonight....but this wont sort my wot lean condition...isnt the chip responsible for fueling at wot? But at least if i can fix my part throttle boosting, which is where the car is most compared to wot..

thanks


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

Im going to get vag-com'd this week....
Which blocks should i log?
Im thinking inj. pulse width, mass air flow...
What else to most accurately pinpoint my problem?
Ill also be checking the software version to make sure....


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

you know...how much have you spent on your turbo setup? and how much is an updated chip from c2? i KNOW it is worthwhile to get rid of your CEL's and plug in all your sensors and get the newer chip. ill throw money down all your issues will go away.....car should be stock plus a turbo setup, everything should be plugged in as it was stock and everything should be routed correctly. problems dissapear when proven directions are followed. get a new chip, double check things go for a nice ride.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
good luck


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (hubbell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hubbell* »_you know...how much have you spent on your turbo setup? and how much is an updated chip from c2? i KNOW it is worthwhile to get rid of your CEL's and plug in all your sensors and get the newer chip. ill throw money down all your issues will go away.....car should be stock plus a turbo setup, everything should be plugged in as it was stock and everything should be routed correctly. problems dissapear when proven directions are followed. get a new chip, double check things go for a nice ride.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
good luck

Good advice, ill take it, BUT....Jeff @ c2 thinks i have a fuel delivery problem, ie pump not keeping up, so an updated chip will do nothing for that...i want it to run right before i send for the o2 compliant chip..
Cheers


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

One word: 4barfpr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It fixed my WOT problem, thanks to [email protected] pulls hard as hell and stays right at 11.8-12.2 afr through every gear, no more flat spots, bucking....
Now it idles at 12.5 afr though, but couldn't care less, it f'in hauls!!! time to crank up the boost!!!
Thanks to those helped!!


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## VR6OOM (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: (formulavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formulavr6* »_One word: 4barfpr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It fixed my WOT problem, thanks to [email protected] pulls hard as hell and stays right at 11.8-12.2 afr through every gear, no more flat spots, bucking....
Now it idles at 12.5 afr though, but couldn't care less, it f'in hauls!!! time to crank up the boost!!!
Thanks to those helped!!

Did you add the 4 bar or remove the 4 bar for the 3?


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (formulavr6)*

You should get an adjustable FPR so you can tweak it right where you want it. Is there any reason why your car needs the 4 bar? Higher elevation or something?


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## formulavr6 (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I have no idea why the 4 bar works so good. Just noticed tonight though, in 5th gear, wot, the afr goes to about 10.5ish, but in every other gear it stays right at 11.5-12 afr...
im guessing i might have a weak pump thats not supplying enough volume under load, i might try and go back to a 3 bar fpr and run a walbro inline..


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (formulavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *formulavr6* »_
im guessing i might have a weak pump thats not supplying enough volume under load, i might try and go back to a 3 bar fpr and run a walbro inline..

that is what i am going to do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (jhayesvw)*

walbro is MANDITORY above ~ 14 psi IMO.


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (mikemcnair)*

I agree, but he's only pushing 7psi.


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: (CannuckCorradoVR6T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CannuckCorradoVR6T* »_My car still hesitates between fast shifts 

When you shift fast and nail the gas to the floor, you get a very sharp rise in boost (and possibly a spike) which can cause a momentary lean time. Injectors need time to react, especially older Bosch pintle valve types. Delphi disc injectors I have found are much faster.
However, this momentary lean spot can be compensated for in software by adding more fuel to the acceleration enrichment map. It's the electronic version of the "throttle pump" carburettors used to have.
All things being equal, a good map should not fall on it's face when you gun it after a quick shift.
2 options - be more progressive with your throttle inputs, or bin the VW ECU (which was never designed for boost in the first place) and go standalone http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Anyone that says standalones are crap simply don't know how to map them properly, simple as.


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