# ABA swap is not starting, no spark, no fuel, no start.



## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

Hi there, so here is the link.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4217449

the thing is i am not a mechanic, so i did what i was able to do and then got all that extra help from Topduko and bonesaw, the car started cranking though. so i beleive as i never actually saw this car run before the swap( i towed it) there must be something else wrong with it. 

1) could a faulty ign switch be the problem?-it is all shaky
2) i got the cluster -MK3 cluster to work-it doesn't show the rpm however when the car is cranking- could that be because i didn't put in yet the VSS?
now i did all as the bonesaw said., prolly i mixed up something -it cranked
then i put the rellays and- no start
then i checked the spark- no spark
the fuel pump only works if the fuel rellay is jumped or directly from the battery
3) i didn't wire the back up switch however, could that be the problem? 
i also found more plugs that go nowhere.
pix are following








4) where the headlight harness connects to the main there are 3 wires cut, what are they?









5) from this little fuse block there are 2 wires, both are red/white. one has single red plug for which i ran a+ wire from battery, the other is just cut, what is it for?








6) a weird looking plug with only 1 pin where does it go?








7) some plugs fit, but wire gauge and color is different, is this connection right?








8) a black plug behind a little fuse box, the plug has a very fat red/black wire. wher does it go?








9) is this connection right?









10) the weird looking yellow plug, is it the airbag system plug?








11) yellow wire black flat plug what is it for?[








12) single blue plug with blue/white wire, from mk3 cluster.
where does it go?








13) is this connection correct?








14) is this section correct?








15) a black plug with thick red wire/ black line serpentining along it. what is it for?








16) single black female plug with black wire-what's it's for?








17) single blue male plug with 1 red wire. what is it for?

_Modified by manfredwerner at 8:35 PM 2-21-2009_


_Modified by manfredwerner at 9:49 PM 2-21-2009_


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

oh, chime in already!


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## Vanagon Nut (Oct 19, 2007)

*Re: ABA swap is not starting, no spark, no fuel, no start. (manfredwerner)*

I can't see how the back up switch would cause a no start, so "no" to that.
That big plug in pic #1. Is it the large round 28 pin plug? If so, that's likely the connector from engine portion of wiring harness to frame portion/ECU etc. It has to be connected.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: ABA swap is not starting, no spark, no fuel, no start. (Vanagon Nut)*

no, it is ne that goes to the headlight harness, but thank you for the info on the back up switch


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I can't make out much from the fuzzy pics, but I'll have a go. All my info is based on putting a mk3 TDI in a Corrado, so the principles are the same although the motors are different.
VSS is for speed, not RPM, so that has nothing to do with your tach not running. The engine should fire up fine without it.
Pic 5 I think is for the radiator fan, or fan control module.
Does the starter spin? If not I think pic 8 the black connector is for the starter cut with the factory immobiliser. I think it should have pic 15 plugged in to it.
No idea what the yellow plug in 10 is for. Pretty sure its not the airbag. Its not connected on my TDI though, so I'd just ignore it.
Pic 12 is the VSS wire. You should have a blue junction box on the top of the fusebox with at least one other of these plugs in it. The VSS comes from the sensor in the engine loom, then straight to the cluster via the fusebox. It then comes back from the cluster to the junction box where it drives the cruise control.
Pretty sure 14 is correct.
Are you using the ABA fusebox & relays or are you using the mk2 fusebox & relays? If you're using the mk2 one, have you fitted relay 109? This is the ECU relay and isn't there on a mk2 IIRC.
If you are just using the ABA engine harness, but still have all the rest of the mk2 harness then there is probably a power wire missing which is needed for the ECU to power up. Unfortunately I can't remember exactly what it is right now so I'll have a look in my TDI build thread and see if I noted it there. G8 springs to mind, but I can't remember why....
Maybe one of the experts will know which one it is?
Hth, Mikki x


_Modified by MikkiJayne at 4:57 AM 2/22/2009_


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

sorry for the fuzzy pix, i took them 1 minute before the gates were closed, my car is at work and the boss has very strict rules about not working on shabbos. 
i'll try to retake them on monday.
i did a jump in the green plug with 2 reds and the starter spins.
so my worse fears look to be true, the harness was butched to much, so if the ecu is not powering up, than there is no signal to the cluster about the rpm's?
i am using the aba engine wirning only and i got aba fuse box as well, but what i didn't know is that i need all the secondary rellay thingies on top of it, i got the 109 and th18 rellays though, i plugged them in. i also think there is no power to the ecu. i hope the experts will check this thread out.
thank you for the info.


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## Vanagon Nut (Oct 19, 2007)

*Re: ABA swap is not starting, no spark, no fuel, no start. (manfredwerner)*

You're welcome.
To add to Mikkijaynes comments....
I don't know if your ABA is using an OBD1 or 2 harness but......
My '94 ABA OBD1 swap runs fine w/o the VSS.
On P 97-17 of '93-'99 Bentley, power from power supply relay comes out at G1/10 (red/blue wire) to ECU (and FI's, HO2S relay, CMP etc.) Ground trigger to Power supply relay is from ECU pin 9. (blk/brwn wire)
Again this is for a '93-'94, but check the "California only...." notes regarding connections at CMP and TPS. 
And....
on P 97-16, power from 15 comes out at G1/4 (2.5 black wire), goes to coil AND connects somewhere to a 0.5 black wire which then connects to 38 of ECU. And FWIW, this same 0.5 black wire joins somewhere to another 0.5 black/white wire which then goes to VSS. 
Don't know if you have a Bentley(s) but well worth having. It took me a while to get the hang of reading the diagrams, but I know for sure that there's no way I could have done my swap w/o them.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: ABA swap is not starting, no spark, no fuel, no start. (Vanagon Nut)*

i will check this out, thank you for the info!


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

ttt


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

does it crank? check switched ign at pin 23 ground at 1 and constant at 54 on ECU plug.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (bonesaw)*

yes it cranks but no spark and no fuel commingout the injectors


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

check power to ecu? is it obd2? if so you will hear throttle adapting.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (bonesaw)*

i am getting the obd 2 port only end of this week, he-he, the wiring was not only cut, also i beleive it is not the right year and plugs missing. crap.
can you take a look at the pix and tell what those plugs are for?


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: ABA swap is not starting, no spark, no fuel, no start. (manfredwerner)*

obd1 or 2? 
first pic 3 cut taped wires. fan connector.
fuse holder whats the question?
grey with weird connector is for fog lights plugs into relay position 10. not needed.
8 plugs into 15.
12 to w1
everything else is not needed.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: ABA swap is not starting, no spark, no fuel, no start. (bonesaw)*

yes, it is obd2, and that black plug red wire with black serpentine not needed as well? 
oh, crap of course those 3 cut wires must be the wires to run the fans! oh crap. i put the fan controll module in and left the fan shroud out , so of course it is for that!
the fuse holder in picture with number 5 from it are comming out 2 similar wires, one has a red plug on th end, so i put a + from the battery to it, the second wire above it is cut and has no plug and i don't know what to do with it, hold on if that is the same color so it is the same wire that is just fused, now if the other end of thet wire i +ed, than wher should it go to? so at this point also there is constant power to that wire, it still is not connected to anything. 
wow.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: ABA swap is not starting, no spark, no fuel, no start. (manfredwerner)*

then leave it disconnected. disconnecting the plastic fuse holders is a pain. prob why the wire was cut. do you hear the throttle body adapt when you turn the key?


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: ABA swap is not starting, no spark, no fuel, no start. (bonesaw)*

i am going to jump that blue wire to the w1 today, and listen to the throttle body, what it does, it was to cold last night to do anything, today we are not so busy, if at all, so i just sneak out to the parking lot .


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: ABA swap is not starting, no spark, no fuel, no start. (manfredwerner)*

w1 in no way affects starting. it is jsut to eliminate speed cut. if the throttle body is not making noise the ECU is dead or not getting power. check those pins i told you.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: ABA swap is not starting, no spark, no fuel, no start. (bonesaw)*

i will, do i need the multimeter, or a check lite would be ok? just for power.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: ABA swap is not starting, no spark, no fuel, no start. (manfredwerner)*

you could prob get away with a test light. meter is better though.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: ABA swap is not starting, no spark, no fuel, no start. (bonesaw)*

very good, so we are not busy today at all, i am going to check it.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_does it crank? check switched ign at pin 23 ground at 1 and constant at 54 on ECU plug. 

the ecu and wiring are obd2 1997 jetta trek manual transmission
1) the motor cranks after the black plug with 2 thick red/black fused with 15 amp, the green plug with 2 red/white wires jumped with a wire, F1 to single black plug jump
2) when i put the key in ON position and i put one jump wire on body for "-" and another jumper from "+" to pin 23, there is power at ECU pin 23
3) pin 1 of the ECU plug has ground
4) pin 54 in the ECU plug has constant power.
all checked with test light. 



_Modified by manfredwerner at 9:46 PM 3-19-2009_


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

chime in.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

what do you mean jumper? you should not be jumpering anything to get power to the ECU. is there a relay in postion 3?


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_what do you mean jumper? you should not be jumpering anything to get power to the ECU. is there a relay in postion 3?

yes in the position #3 there is a mk3 relay #109
if i jump the - and the + of that relay will the car start?


_Modified by manfredwerner at 11:47 PM 3-19-2009_


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

try taking that relay out and starting.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

also i am using mk3 dash cluster, as i try to start the car, the tach doesn't show th revving, the check engine light isn't on even though the SAI is not connected, the cluster only shows the time and mileage, i did the D8-E2 jump to power it up though.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

if you turn the key and th CEL does not light it means the bulb is out or the ECU is not working. no revs while cranking is pretty much confirming not seeing ECU. try without relay in #3.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_if you turn the key and th CEL does not light it means the bulb is out or the ECU is not working. no revs while cranking is pretty much confirming not seeing ECU. try without relay in #3.


if i take out the realy 109 from position #3, there is no change, it cranks but doesn't start and there are no changes on the cluster. 
here is a question, 
1) could it be the missing alrm or immobilizer?
2) could it be the old dash/ignition switch surround wiring?
3) when i had the mk2 cluster in it, there was sometimes low oil pressure light on, but also no revving showing while cranking the motor.

i bought the car as a shell, and never saw it drive before. oh crap.

any ideas or hints are greatly apreciated.
thank you.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

the alarm or ign harness would only prevent it from cranking.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_the alarm or ign harness would only prevent it from cranking.

1)do you think if i swap the rest of the aba harness: dash and the ones that go into ign switch etc it would help?
2) if you think apart of the swapped aba stuff, what could cause it?
3) does the ecu need an extra ground wire? or it is ok just to make it touch the body metal?
4) how to run a separate line to power the ecu?
5) in the official x flow swap post ontop of the hybrid forum that guy sais that in the end there wont be enough power to power up the ecu and that some electrical supplies must be tapped in, but he never finishes the post and explains what exactly. or is it the rellays 109 and 18?
6) could be that some of the old harness that i disconnected is plugged on the other end and in the fuse box there is new aba harness, and although it looks ok, in fact there is no connection? -just guessing.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

i imed the Xflowa2 and got the following-History 
(11:37 PM 3-19-2009) manfredwerner: how did you power up the ecu on the aba into mk2 swap ?

(11:16 AM 3-20-2009) X-FlowA2: red/blue at the ecu to switched power I believe.
can anyone confirm it?


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

going back to digi2, let's see if it starts then.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

if everything is from the mk3 it should work. if you get a ground at pin 1 and switched at 23 and constant at 54 the ecu is getting proper power. does the throttle body adapt when you turn the ign on? do you get fuel and spark? getting it to crank does not mean ****. for all the hassle and time its has been and going to take you to go back to digi2 you should just pay someone to finish it.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (bonesaw)*

could the ecu be getting not enough power? i read in the official x flow swap post, that the black plug with 2 thick wires should plug in a 30amp fuse, wher i only put the 15 amp, also some rd/blue wire that is suposingly going nowhere should be getting 12 v switch power, but that was for obd1, now in the obd2 i beleive it is that yellow/black wire with yellow plug, so i got the switched power from a thicker same color wire going to the ign switch.
also what if it is something like a bad cp sensor? 
there is no fuel and no spark. the t body doesn't make any noise at all.

how do i check the coil? the cp sensor? the ecu? i can't have 2 bad ecu's.
all without the obd2 port .
thank you.
P.S. going back to digi2 is easy.


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## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

your not getting power to the ecu. that red/blue going nowhere should be hooked into your ecu power relay DO NOT JUMP IT unless of course your ok with frying a ecu.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

you need to buy a mk3 bentley. the jumping the black plug with 15A is only to get the car to crank. thats it. its a red/yellow on obd1 that needs constant power. it is straight to pin 54. did you check those pins? the black/yellow with yellow connector is for the fan harness. a bad crank sensor would cause it to not spark. but your throttle body should be adapting. if it is not you are not getting proper power to it or the ecu is dead.
P.S. running the ABA on digi2 will run like donkey d!ck


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (MecE2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MecE2.0* »_your not getting power to the ecu. that red/blue going nowhere should be hooked into your ecu power relay DO NOT JUMP IT unless of course your ok with frying a ecu. 
 

how do i hook it up?


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_you need to buy a mk3 bentley. the jumping the black plug with 15A is only to get the car to crank. thats it. its a red/yellow on obd1 that needs constant power. it is straight to pin 54. did you check those pins? the black/yellow with yellow connector is for the fan harness. a bad crank sensor would cause it to not spark. but your throttle body should be adapting. if it is not you are not getting proper power to it or the ecu is dead.
P.S. running the ABA on digi2 will run like donkey d!ck

yes i checked the pins, what wire on obd2 needs constant power?
i have 2 ecu's. none working. both are supposingly good, they came outta running cars.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

how many times to i got to tell you. get a multimeter. check from pin 1 to pin 54. do you see 12v? then turn ign on. check 1 to 23 do you see 12v?


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## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

that red/blue switched power should be connected through to relay 109 terminal 86. red/yellow to the 30 and it needs a ground. digifant will run this engine, but it'll be crappy and won't like any mods you do. bentley is your best friend. that and the xflow swap post (didn't that guy even do the right up for obd2?) either way ecu power is the same for both systems (as well as most of the other connections that need to be made into the back of the fuse block)


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

look, if i put in a2 cluster and do the jump from neg term on the coil to the wire in the cluster wiring comming from U1/06 that should make the tach run? if i crank the engine should it show the rpm's? if it doesn't show so the coil is bad? if use the mk3 cluster, there is no tach signal either, could the ecu not power up the motor because it gets no signal from crank sensor?
i think that there are 2 problems with the parts i bought of different people. 
1-possibly bad coil.
2-bad crank sensor.
does this make any sense to you?

_Modified by manfredwerner at 11:08 PM 3-21-2009_


_Modified by manfredwerner at 11:16 PM 3-21-2009_


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

they are not the same. obd2 does not use a ecu relay.
dont worry about seeing rpm on cluster. pull a plug wire. connect directly to coil. see if it sparks. if it does not try taking the middle wire and tapping it to ground. every time you do that it should fire. if that doesnt work its the coil.
i honestly dont think either are the problem. your wiring is. the throttle body is not adapting, which means the ecu is not getting power or the throttle body is shot.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_they are not the same. obd2 does not use a ecu relay.
dont worry about seeing rpm on cluster. pull a plug wire. connect directly to coil. see if it sparks. if it does not try taking the middle wire and tapping it to ground. every time you do that it should fire. if that doesnt work its the coil.
i honestly dont think either are the problem. your wiring is. the throttle body is not adapting, which means the ecu is not getting power or the throttle body is shot.


as i had to move my stuff from jersey ina big hurry i just piled ap the stuff at work and maybe mixed up the t bodies, i have another vw with aba obd2 auto motor, are the obd2 aut and manual tbodies the same? what if i just grabbed the wrong one? 
also can you tell me what wire is it that powers up that 12 constant power to ecu? how to make a bypass for that? 
the original wiring digi2 in this car was eaten by mice at some spots, could the old digi2 left over wiring be the problem?


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

i beleive obd2 they are the same.
jsut check power at pin 54. its prob already connected.
if you are using the ABA harness then there should be nothing on the car that is digi2. def another part of the harness could be ****ed.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_does it crank? check switched ign at pin 23 ground at 1 and constant at 54 on ECU plug. 

today i borrowed a multi meter and got the following numbers
all was checked when the aba was costantly boosted with a cr town and country v6, coz my battery is too low to crank.
1) pin #54 has a constant about 12 volts
2) pin #1 is a ground
3) pin #23 when i live the key ON it shows no voltage
when i live the key in START and the motor is cranking it shows from 8 to 9 volts

the coil: when the car is being started with no ECU there is no current in it
when the ECU is connected and the key is in ON position there is no current
when the ECU is connected and the car is being started the coil wire fires on anything arround it, it fired onto the coolant hoses, metal and as i took it to tap it on metal it gives shock even through gloves-what a hell i didn't even touch the metal receiver of that wire and it gave me shock throught the air and glove!
well maybe it is because the car was on a boost of a v6.
so what do you think?


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

ecu is not getting swithced power. i beleive you need to remove the relay from position 3. there might be a relay for ABA dont remember 100%


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_ecu is not getting swithced power. i beleive you need to remove the relay from position 3. there might be a relay for ABA dont remember 100%

is ther a way to figure out what rellay i need?


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

ttt


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

Vanagon Nut said:


> P97-255 (OBD2 post June '96) lists an "ECM power supply relay". But looking at P 97-391, I don't see one. Maybe a typo?
> *Anyway....
> P97-266, 97-362, 97-390, each show a fused (S15) supply from 15 to 68/23 of ECU. P97-3 shows this fuse as "engine electronics". * -
> so in theory i could run a wire( fused by a 15 amp fuse) from pin 15 of ecu to 68 and 23. and that sould solve the trouble?
> ...


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (manfredwerner)*

do yourself a favor before you make matters worse. find someone with a 97 aba and ask them if and what relay is in postion 3. might be #42.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_do yourself a favor before you make matters worse. find someone with a 97 aba and ask them if and what relay is in postion 3. might be #42.

that is the problem there isn't any one arround her with an aba obd2 car. this is ny. i passed by an vw and audi g2g in the kohl's parking lot yesterday, they are all audi and mk4-5. no aba mk3 obd2.

and in this particular thread i am asking that question, ther are justr no so many answers there yet.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

OK, so today i got it to fire. yes as many said it was a not enough power to the ecu.
so what happen was the wire at the pin 23 of the ecu plug only showed 8-9v. i traced that wire to the fuse box ( it was easier when i unplugged it all and pulled it outside). the wire was black with 2 yellow stripes, i rang it through and came to a white plug in the box, than carefully took it out and ran it to a black yellow wire sticking out the ignition cylinder.
My gosh i work in a cardealership as a service manager( not a tech) and i have never been so happy to see a check engine light on.
all dash cluster lights work, except for the tach sofar. well, now i got no fuel for some reason.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

last update:
the intank fuel pump is seized, it is melted along with the gaskets for some reason.


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