# Hill-Hold Option for EOS?



## OregonEOS (Jun 22, 2007)

Is there a Hill-Hold option for a DSG equipped EOS? By hill holding I mean the automatic application of brakes when stopped on a hill.
Our main complaint about our DSG EOS is the roll back that happens between releasing the foot brake and application of the accelerator. This only adds to the frustration of the slight lag that follows accelerator application. Oh, then there is that crowning glory of wheel spin as it finally takes off! I have driven several DSG GTI and did not have the problem to the same extant.
I suppose you all have all noticed that spinning is more likely with the top down as the weight has been transfered to the rear. I will be investigating that entire drivability issue in future posts after doing some experiments.
In the mean time, I believe hill-hold is an option in Europe and I want to know if it is available in the USA.


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## slitko (Mar 26, 2007)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (OregonEOS)*

Have that option on our Passat but when I ordered the EOS it was not available on there


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## WolfinPR (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (slitko)*

Check out this thread, there is some talk about the lack of hill assist.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2910486


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## huckieca (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (OregonEOS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OregonEOS* »_Is there a Hill-Hold option for a DSG equipped EOS? By hill holding I mean the automatic application of brakes when stopped on a hill.

Sadly, it's call the parking brake, and requires manual activation. You'd think for a car that's $30-40k, they could add this feature. My Civic Hybrid even has it.
das sigh.


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## x9t (Sep 19, 2005)

Its not the price as the base passat has this option.. i think it has to do with DSG.. tranny.. and i would take a DSG with no autohold than a Automatic with Autohold.. 
even my MT passat has autohold.. do the MT EOS have Autohold?
JT


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## BigFoot-74205 (Jan 26, 2006)

JT,
Not to my knowledge (mine definitely doesn't).
Damir


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: (x9t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *x9t* »_ i think it has to do with DSG.. tranny.. and i would take a DSG with no autohold than a Automatic with Autohold.. 


I'll bet the DSG is the same between the Passat and Eos with the 2.0t engine. It probably has more to do with the ABS system.


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## x9t (Sep 19, 2005)

Passats dont come with DSG in North America.. just regular tiptronic.. which i hear sucks.. nice one VW.
JT


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## wndctyboy (Mar 27, 2006)

"Auto Hold" feature has nothing to do with DSG transmission box, needs electric calipers. 
Personally, I prefer classic hand brake for more control, way better than fancy push button.


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## Pleshy_GTI_VR6 (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: (wndctyboy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wndctyboy* »_"Auto Hold" feature has nothing to do with DSG transmission box, needs electric calipers. 
Personally, I prefer classic hand brake for more control, way better than fancy push button. 

I miss my handbrake but I do like the Auto Hold feature. Was great for teaching the gf to drive stick.


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## mconfer (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (WolfinPR)*

As noted somewhere a few pages into this post, a VW rep told me that hill assist was left off of NAM EOS to meet a "price point". This issue was unacceptable to me since I thought I had bought an "automatic transmission" which I don't expect to roll backwards on a hill start, certainly not to the extent that my EOS was doing. My dealership offered to buy back the EOS.
I stay tuned here because I love EOS and hope that hill assist will be offered in the States in a later model. If that is added (and the whole issue on owners having to lube the roof seals with Krytox every so often to keep the car from leaking is resolved) I'll definitely be buying another one.
Thank goodness I'll be able to keep up with the issues here on VW Vortex!
Martha


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## mconfer (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (mconfer)*

The post I am referring to in my last post is the thread referenced in WolfinPR's 7/11/07 post...living with DSG. sorry for any confusion.
Martha


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

Perhaps I am missing something, but I don't notice a big problem with the DSG. How much of a hill does it take to become noticable?
Also, is there any reason not to use your right foot on the brake while starting off? Is it because the parking brake is usually rear brake only?


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: (jgermuga)*

I checked the VW UK Site for this issue
For the Passat it lists under standard specificiation
Electronic parking brake (with hill hold function on automatics) 
There is no similar listing for the EOS...
So it appears at least in the UK, the hill-hold function is not available with the EOS. I suspect that it is not offered anywhere in the world, and that this is some how related to the difference between a DSG (manual with a computer control clutch) equiped vehicle and a conventional "slush box" type of automatic transmission
Does anyone know of any market where a DSG equiped vehicle (EOS or otherwise) also has 'hill hold' functionality, which appears to be a function of an electonic parking brake.


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## BigFoot-74205 (Jan 26, 2006)

I could be wrong, but I think the reason the Eos doesn't come with "hill hold" is because it has a normal park brake. OTOH, the B6 Passat has an electronic park brake and it also comes with "hill hold" (even when equipped with a manual transmission).
Damir


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## mconfer (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: (mark_d_drake)*

Mark,
Hill assist is apparently not the same as the Passat hill hold function.
This is from Gadgeteer's post in the living with DSG thread and refers to his UK owner's manual:
"Any way, page 132 in section 3.1:
The hill hold assist function helps the driver move off on an uphill slope.
If the driver releases the footbrake on an incline, the vehicle will be held in position by the hill hold assist function for approximately 2 seconds. The brake will gradually be released as the vehicle pulls away. If the vehicle does not pull away within 2 seconds, the brake will be released and the vehicle will roll back.
When is it activated?
- stationary vehicle is standing on an incline facing uphill of more than 5% + the drivers door is closed + engine is running."
Hope this helps!
Martha


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mark_d_drake* »_Does anyone know of any market where a DSG equiped vehicle (EOS or otherwise) also has 'hill hold' functionality, which appears to be a function of an electonic parking brake.

The Audi A3 "S tronic" (DSG) has hill hold assist, including the US version.


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## OregonEOS (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (OregonEOS)*

Hey everyone,
Thanks for all the good discussion on the hill holding question. I do think it should be standard feature of the DSG equipped cars. There is the implication that a transmission billed as the automatic option has some hill holding capability.
As for me, I can use the hand brake to hold me on a hill. I am teaching the other family members that it is intuitive and fun. It takes only a tug (followed by a release) on the brake handle with the button depressed the entire time. 
Less experienced drivers should note that it is OK to start forward with some amount of hand brake still applied. The alternative would be backing into someone and, as we are learning, it is bad and expensive thing to damage the rear of our EOS cars.


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## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (OregonEOS)*

Not that I would sue and I currently have a manual transmission, but I can see how at some point there would be a class action lawsuit against VW for this design. Car buyers are accustom to an automatic transaction not rolling on a hill and VW has the technology to prevent this. VW has made an inadequate attempt to warn or educate the consumer of its operation.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (flheat)*

I do not believe VW have ever claimed that DSG is an automatic transmission. I can see how the fact they do not offer an conventional 'slushbox' alternative may have lead some people, and possibly dealers to think of it as automatic transmission.
From the VW UK Web site glossary...
http://www.vw.co.uk/new_cars/t...y/DSG

_Quote »_Volkswagen Group's Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG) combines the ease of an automatic car with the efficiency and flexibility of a manual.
While a conventional gearbox works with one clutch, the DSG transmission has two - one in gear, while the second has the next gear preselected. When the gears need to shift, the second clutch takes the load, while the first preselects the next gear. The whole process takes no more than three to four hundredths of a second - faster than the blink of an eye!
DSG transmissions also have a 'tiptronic' function, allowing gears to be manually selected. Tiptronic changes have a more 'sporty' feel.
There are several benefits of the system. These include improved acceleration and refined uninterrupted driving. DSG is the first of its kind to feature in a production car, demonstrating Volkswagen Group's ongoing commitment to developing remarkable technology.


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## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mark_d_drake* »_I do not believe VW have ever claimed that DSG is an automatic transmission. I can see how the fact they do not offer an conventional 'slushbox' alternative may have lead some people, and possibly dealers to think of it as automatic transmission.


Mark,
VW can call it whatever they want but I can assure that at least 95% of the population will take one look and see the absence of a clutch next to the brake and deem it an automatic. It is fine for VW to laurel the benefits of the DSG but if they don't (*)may roll down hills, I think they may run into trouble. Likewise, I always start an automatic with my foot on the brake; however, that did not absolve Audi and Ford from sudden acceleration lawsuits. I just think they would learn.
Bruce


_Modified by flheat at 7:37 AM 7-18-2007_


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## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (flheat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flheat* »_
Mark,
VW can call it whatever they want but I can assure that at least 95% of the population will take one look and see the absence of a clutch next to the brake and deem it an automatic. 
_Modified by flheat at 7:37 AM 7-18-2007_


P
N
D
S
L
equals
automatic transmission, imho.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (SoCalMan)*

OTOH
Lack of Clutch (Not Clutch Pedal) equals automatic transmission IMHO. And DSG has 2 clutches.


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## mconfer (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mark_d_drake* »_OTOH
Lack of Clutch (Not Clutch Pedal) equals automatic transmission IMHO. And DSG has 2 clutches.

I've always said...they just need to tell you! They offer a standard and an automatic and 99% of car shoppers expect an automatic to hold a hill, at least for a moment or two!
It certainly wouldn't occur to me (or 99% of car shoppers) to ask if this is a "normal" automatic, or "kind of" an automatic. Some things you think you already know!


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (mconfer)*

I think much of this is common sense too. On a steep grade not even a "normal" automatic will hold. So it's all relative.
Agreed most people will equate no clutch pedal with an automatic transmission. Who's gonna look for an actual clutch disc? You can't even see the clutch disc in a manual if you wanted too.
The key is, as previously stated, communication which VW appears to lack. The dealer never mentioned the DSG transmission or how it worked when I test drove the Eos. Instead of calling it a DSG, which for most people acronyms go in one ear and out the other and I'll bet most won't understand what a Direct Shift Gearbox means anyway, they should call it an automated manual transmission (AMT) or an automatic clutch manual (ACM) or how about an automatic double clutch manual transmission (ADCMT) all of which are more easily understood by the average joe then a Direct Shift Gearbox.
All the dealer really needs to do is mention the increased rollback potential on an incline. I actually love this effect. I have no problems taking my foot off the brake to hit the gas on a hill. So far I've not needed to do the hand brake method. Granted, I don't live in San Fran either. I also love the effect when taking your foot off the brake, feeling the clutch engage while inching up in traffic. It definitely gives you that manual feel.


_Modified by solarflare at 1:39 PM 7-18-2007_


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (mconfer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mconfer* »_It certainly wouldn't occur to me (or 99% of car shoppers) to ask if this is a "normal" automatic, or "kind of" an automatic. Some things you think you already know! 

Agreed, until this post I thought the DSG rollback was something of an anomoly. I still haven't experienced it to any great degree but I recalled this post the other night when I was parking at a concert venue where the road sloped off quickly into a grassy area so I was deliberate about using the parking brake. If I had rolled back I would have had to call a tow truck. Thanks to the OP for this post and that nothing bad happened.








However, if my wife had been driving, I don't think she would have ever thought to use the handbrake, as I think most people wouldn't. 
So I also agree VW could come under fire for this if it results in any serious liability, such as a pedestrian getting hurt or a car going off an embankment.
As for VW "telling" me about this? 
I would say customer communication is not their strong suit and the people at my dealership did not even offer any "selling" points on DSG after I mentioned my lackluster experience with my 02 Jetta Tiptronic. Although I can't confirm whether she knew or not, I feel pretty safe saying my sales person did not have the slightest idea the DSG system had 2 clutches and may rollback on hills. If the salesperson doesn't know this and understand the implications, how is the consumer expected to know?


_Modified by jgermuga at 4:51 PM 7-18-2007_


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Hill-Hold Option for EOS? (mconfer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mconfer* »_
It certainly wouldn't occur to me (or 99% of car shoppers) to ask if this is a "normal" automatic, or "kind of" an automatic. 

Yep, and VW dealers should be highlighting this feature. It's a piece of engineering to be proud of. I didn't really know what it was until I researched it on the internet after I purchased the car.
I suspect they don't because everyone is comfortable with two types of transmissions, manual and automatic. Now that there's a third, most people would be hesitant or cautious of this foreign concept, an automatic manual, much like a cat in new surroundings. People won't see the automatic, they'll just see the manual and be afraid. They'll equate DSG to an inferior automatic (because of the increased rollback potential) when the dealers should be emphasizing that it's a superior, next-generation automatic.


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