# OFFICIAL: GT28RS Turbo Thread



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

_10-06-2009 Added info on the HTA GT2868_








http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_right.gif **INTRODCUTION** http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_left.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by »_The GT28RS aka GT2860RS aka Disco Potato is a fiery little turbo that makes a great upgrade to the wimpy k03s on our 1.8T's. Capable of producing 320+whp (or more) when pushed, this medium frame turbo boasts near instant spool and a very broad powerband. There are many different kits and tuning choices out there, so with the following details I hope to clear things up for those who are a tad confused. Enjoy!

http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_right.gif **LEGEND OF THE DISCO POTATO** http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_left.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *http://www3.sympatico.ca/mr2sc/disco_potato.html* »_The story starts with Dan Passe who, at the time, was a Nissan PR genius with a penchant for bending rules. He conveniently "lost" the paperwork for a 1.8-liter Sentra which Nissan Design International had modified for the L.A. Auto Show. The car quietly landed in the hands of Nissan engineers Steve Mitchell and Mike Kojima. 
Meanwhile, a few miles away at Garrett, turbo engineer Jay Kavanagh wanted to boost his Miata. Having full access to the newest Garrett technology, he concocted a physically small turbo with a ball-bearing center section and internal aerodynamics 20 years more modern than the T3/T4 standard the aftermarket is used to. 
A few cubicles from Kavanagh, Rob Cadle, a good friend of Mitchell and Kojima, realized Kavanagh's Miata turbo would be perfect for the SR20DET the Nissan boys were planning for the Sentra. He brewed up a turbo, stuffed it under his shirt, and went out the back door. 
The Sentra was painted a unique combination of psychedelic, color-shifting brownish paint and was thus dubbed the Disco Potato.
Jim Wolf Technology built a very mild SR20 for the Sentra, making it functionally equivalent to a stock Japanese-spec SR20DET. The turbo was installed, and amazing things started happening. The car's power was impressive, 280 hp at the wheels, but not earth-shattering. The driving experience however, was. Throttle response was excellent, turbo lag virtually non-existent, and the tire-shredding power was easily modulated. The turbo spooled up early, making so much torque, that the best quarter-mile time (13.7 at 104.5 mph) was achieved launching in second gear. 
Mitchell brought the Disco Potato to the Ultimate Street Car Challenge in 2001, and placed an impressive fourth overall. The rest of the time, the car was stashed away in Nissan USA's service garage and used strategically as an attitude adjustment tool. Whenever Nissan or Garret executives needed an injection of gasoline in their veins, they were offered the keys. They would inevitably come back grinning from ear to ear and breathing heavily, eager to bring horsepower to the masses. 
During one such outing, which included a 1,000-mile road trip as well as a track day at Thunderhill Raceway, the fwd Disco Potato outran every car at the track and then blasted down the freeway at 140 mph.
Several Garrett executives also experienced the Potato. They were so impressed, they decided to produce the turbo, double the engineering staff in the aftermarket department, and start applying this modern Garrett technology to a whole range of aftermarket turbos. 
Technically, this is a GT28R with a 62 trim compressor (.60 A/R) and a 76 trim turbine (.86 A/R) and was voted one of the top 20 New Products at SEMA 2003.



http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_right.gif **TECHNICAL INFORMATION** http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_left.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by »_ http://****************.com/smile/star.gif *BASIC TURBO DETAILS*
Garrett offers two versions of this turbo off the self: they both have the standard compressor cover with a 3" inlet and a 2" outlet, and they both have 5-bolt T25 internally gated turbine housings, one with a 0.64A/R (GT2860RS - 739548 - 5) and the other offered in a 0.86A/R (GT2860RS - 739548 - 1). The CHRA is a dual ball bearing cartridge and is water and oil cooled.
http://****************.com/smile/star.gif *POWER RATING*
250-360chp
http://****************.com/smile/star.gif *COMPRESSOR DETAILS*
- IND: 47.2mm
- EXD: 60mm
- TRIM: 62
- A/R: 0.60
















http://****************.com/smile/star.gif *TURBINE DETAILS*
- WHEEL DIAM: 53.8mm
- TRIM: 76
- A/R: 0.64 or 0.86
















Other compressor and turbine housing options are available through various Garrett dealers (ATP Turbo, PAG-PARTS, or CTS Turbo to name a few) and are listed below:
http://****************.com/smile/star.gif *COMPRESSOR HOUSING OPTIONS*
- GT28R (GT2560R) compressor housing
- polished compressor housing
http://****************.com/smile/star.gif *TURBINE HOUSING OPTIONS*
- T3 5 bolt, ext gate
- T3 4 bolt, ext gate
- TIAL V-Band, ext gate
- T25 inlet - T31 V-Band outlet, ext gate
- Other configurations available
http://****************.com/smile/star.gif *FORCED PERFORMANCE COMPRESSOR UPGRADE*
Forced Performance is now offering a 68mm billet compressor wheel for the GT28RS. The upgrade fee is $600, or you can buy a whole assembled turbo for $1500. The new wheel is said to flow 48lbm/min.








DYNO AND MORE INFO 


http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_right.gif **SOFTWARE OPTIONS** http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_left.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by »_ http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif *REVO 550 FILE*
The REVO 550 file is a nice upgrade for current REVO customers as the upgrade fee is only a few hundred dollars. While most report no cold start problems or idle issues, this file is notorious for running very rich on decel, resulting in a very garggly/poppy ride. This file also has been shown to have a very mild timing map.
- Uses Genesis 550 injectors available from USRT
- Uses a 3"OD VR6 MAF housing with 1.8T sensor
- Uses a 3bar FPR
- Can delete the ecu immobilizer 
- Can be used with the SPS3 
- $599.00
http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif *UNITRONIC 630 FILE (with or without MAF)*
Tried and true, both the MAF and MAF-Less files are known for their smooth idle and start up as well as their near-factory part-throttle. The uni file also boasts a very aggressive timing map and has options for cam and throttle body upgrades.
- Uses Seimens 630 injectors @ 3bar or Genesis Injectors @ 4bar
- Uses a 3"OD VR6 MAF housing with 1.8T sensor (No MAF housing or sensor required for MAF-Less file)
- Can delete SAI, EVAP, etc.
- Can delete the ecu immobilizer
- No octane-specific program switching available, timing increases are done through Unisettings
- $890.00
http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif *EURODYNE 630 FILE (with or without MAF)*
Also quite popular, the Eurodyne files are known for their aggressive timing maps and smooth operation. Eurodyne also offers options for those with cams or larger throttle-bodies.
- Uses Seimens 630 injectors @ 3bar or Genesis Injectors @ 4bar
- Uses a 3"OD VR6 MAF housing with 1.8T sensor (No MAF housing or sensor required for MAF-Less file)
- Can delete SAI, EVAP, etc.
- Can delete the ecu immobilizer
- Switchable octane-specific files through CC stalk
- $750.00
http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif *GIAC DEL-RIO BT FILE*
Not widely used. It has been reportedly recently updated. Limited feedback suggests great cold start performance and daily operation.
- Uses 580cc injectors
- Uses S4 MAF housing and sensor
- $700.00
http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif *APR STG3+ FILE*
Well known and widely used, this file is known for its smooth operation and it's "safe on stock internals" manner. No options for cams, though can be used with the R32 throttle body. 
- Uses APR specific injectors
- Uses an APR specific MAF housing
- Can not delete the SAI, EVAP, etc.
- Switchable octane-specific files through CC stalk
- $XXXX (only available with the purchase of a stg3+ hardware kit)


http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_right.gif **HARDWARE KITS** http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_left.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by »_







****ATP FULL HARDWARE KIT**** Link









_INCLUDED HARDWARE:_
- Precision Cast High Flow Turbo Manifold with GT28RS flange pattern.
- Garrett Dual Ball Bearing GT28RS Turbocharger assembly.
- Internal wastegate assembly with high psi base spring actuator.
- 3.00” V-band Discharge Module.
- 3.00” Stainless V-band downpipe assembly.
- Inlet Pipe with T-bolt Clamps and silicone connectors.
- Custom CNC machined oil inlet/outlet fittings with oil control.
- Steel braided oil feed and return line assemblies.
- Custom CNC machined coolant fittings with AN style discharge/return.
- Steel braided, pre-assembled coolant line assemblies with
- All hardware and comprehensive installation diagram.
_ADDITIONAL REQUIRED HARDWARE:_
- Fuel pump
- Injectors (specific to software)
- MAF housing (specific to software)
- Other things you may need 
_MSRP:_
$2399.00







****ATP ELIMINATOR2 KIT**** Link 








_INCLUDED HARDWARE:_
GT28RS Eliminator2 (E2) Bolt-on Turbo Kit for 98-05 VW 1.8T 350HP . Fits all FWD 1.8T transverse Golf/Jetta/GTI/Beetle/A3/TT, does not fit Quattro Models. Turbo kit includes turbo and up-pipe along with 3" upper downpipe to merge GT28RS turbo to stock exhaust manifold. Also uses upper downpipe to merge GT turbo with downpipe made for stock K03 turbo. Comes with all stainless lines and fittings to for easy mount up of GT28RS turbo. Works incredibly well with the stock exhaust manifold and surprisingly easy to install. Awesome boost response and peak power. Just add 3" inlet pipe P/N: ATP-VVW-206 to route turbo inlet to stock airbox or MAF housing and unleash the full potential of the turbo.
_ADDITIONAL REQUIRED HARDWARE:_
- Fuel pump
- Injectors (specific to software)
- MAF housing (specific to software)
- Eliminator Inlet pipe Link
_MSRP:_
$2090.00 (including the cost of the inlet pipe)







****APR STG3+**** Link








_INCLUDED HARDWARE:_
- APR Investment Cast Inconel Exhaust Manifold
- Honeywell/Garrett Ballistic Series Ball-Bearing Turbocharger
- Larger APR designed Mass Airflow Sensor Housing
- APR Custom Cast Silicone Intake Hoses
- APR High Flow Fuel Injectors and Fuel Pump
- All Associate Plumbing and Hardware
_ADDITIONAL REQUIRED HARDWARE:_
- Nothing
MSRP:
$4999.00 (Includes software and fueling)







****PAGPARTS GTS3 KIT**** Link








*NOTE: T3s60 kit shown
_INCLUDED HARDWARE:_
- Manifold T25 Ductile Cast
- Garrett GT2860RS .64AR
- oil feed line kit with fitting (stainless)
- oil return line kit with fittings (stainless)
- GT restrictor
- coolant line kit
- Oil Return Flange Kit
- Oil Pan Adapter Kit
- 3" T304 Stainless Downpipe with Cast Vband Adapter/Vband Clamp
- 3" 6061 Aluminum Inlet piping set with Silicone Connectors/Clamps
- Stainless Mounting Stud Kit with Flexloc Nuts/Nordlock Washers
- Silicone Charge Hose Kit with T-Bolt Clamps (to Pancake Pipe)
_ADDITIONAL REQUIRED HARDWARE:_
- Fuel pump
- Injectors (specific to software)
- MAF housing (specific to software)
_MSRP:_
$2850.00







****CTS TURBO KIT**** Link 








NOTE: T3T4 Turbo Shown 
_INCLUDED HARDWARE:_
- Garrett GT28RS Turbocharger w/ T3 turbine housing
- Kinetic 1.8T T3 Turbo Manifold
- 3" Stainless Steel O2 Housing w/ Heat Wrap
- Stainless Steel Turbo Heat Shield
- 3" Inlet Pipe Kit w/ AFE Re-useable Air Filter
- Oil Feed / Drain Kits
- Coolant Relocation Kit
- TiAL 38mm Wastegate
- Gaskets, Studs, Nuts, Clamps
_ADDITIONAL REQUIRED HARDWARE:_
- Fuel pump
- Injectors (specific to software)
- MAF housing (specific to software)
_MSRP:_
$3095.00 

http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_right.gif **ADDITIONAL RECOMMENDED HARDWARE** http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_left.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by »_







*RODS:*
Yes, do them. They are not required, but you'll not be able to take advantage of what this turbo can do if you don't replace them. It's a small price to pay IMHO.







*FMIC:*
The stock one will not cut it for this one. In fact, neither will an UGSMIC unless you use water/meth injection. 







*EXHAUST:*
either 2.5" or 3.0" will work. One's quieter while the other may free up a few ponies. The factory exhaust, while it will work, is not recommended.







*CLUTCH:*
If you have an 02M, you'll be fine on your stock clutch. Everyone else, however, will need to upgrade. 

http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_right.gif **DYNO SHEETS** http://****************.com/smile/emarrow_left.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by »_









































**crank hp numbers**




































_Modified by NOLA_VDubber at 10:21 PM 4-22-2010_


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: OFFICIAL: GT28RS Turbo Thread (NOLA_VDubber)*

Hopefully this will help people out when trying to decide which setup to go with. Feel free to post up pics and such on each kit. I will also be updating this thread as needed. Also feel free to use this thread for discussion of all things potato


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Good thread but that looks like a piece of crap lol


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (Dub-Nub)*

disco potato!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## EF9Si (Dec 12, 2003)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*

I love my potato! I can't wait to get the beast up and running again!!


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## MightyDSM (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (EF9Si)*

Very informative thread. Thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: (MightyDSM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MightyDSM* »_Very informative thread. Thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









x 2!


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*FV-QR*

FAQ worthy!


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## Vee-Dubber-GLI (Nov 27, 2006)

*Re: OFFICIAL: GT28RS Turbo Thread (NOLA_VDubber)*

This [email protected] Disco Potato is putting some hurt on my logical and reasonable side. I should do mild, reliable k04 with bolt-ons because its my only car and it needs to last, but the POWWAAHHH of that bad boy with the pretty awesome power curve is really fraying my nerves in terms of my financial responsibility.














Its not much more expensive, can be just as reliable, but with MOAR POWAHHH.














I need to go lock my wallet up now.


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## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: OFFICIAL: GT28RS Turbo Thread (Vee-Dubber-GLI)*

Nola thats one of the best GT28rs thread on vortex, great info and thanks for posting my dyno as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
You should have a







for this thread...hopefully a lot with GT28rs
To Vee-Dubber-GLi - my car is also daily car and no issues for over a year now..its runnig strong and reliable


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

so CTS GT28RS turbokit is 3095.00? and then you need to get software, injectors and fuel pump? So why the hell are people complaining that APR is expensive? lol


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_so CTS GT28RS turbokit is 3095.00? and then you need to get software, injectors and fuel pump? So why the hell are people complaining that APR is expensive? lol

cause the cts is a t3 setup that was never meant for the 28rs. It was built around a medium frame turbo, and should be kept that way.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
cause the cts is a t3 setup that was never meant for the 28rs. It was built around a medium frame turbo, and should be kept that way.

Yes but do you know that production wise GT28RS setup or 35R setup is almost the same cost? Just price difference in turbo...
If people are looking for GT28RS setup...I never thought I would say this but APR seems to be best bang for buck lol


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
Yes but do you know that production wise GT28RS setup or 35R setup is almost the same cost? Just price difference in turbo...
If people are looking for GT28RS setup...I never thought I would say this but APR seems to be best bang for buck lol

On most things, but there is a difference in price of the turbos, wastegate and plumbing, different manifolds (not interchangeable except w/ vbands







). This would also entail outside changes, like use of different intercooler cores, engine mods to support 35R power and allow it to flow properly, clutch requirements, etc etc. For a company like me, both those setups have a completely different mindset/approach...


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
On most things, but there is a difference in price of the turbos, wastegate and plumbing, different manifolds (not interchangeable except w/ vbands







). This would also entail outside changes, like use of different intercooler cores, engine mods to support 35R power and allow it to flow properly, clutch requirements, etc etc. For a company like me, both those setups have a completely different mindset/approach...

How so? Turbokit has nothing to do with IC or engine mods, we talk about turbokits here and prices. To produce manifold with T25 or T3 flange is exactly the same $$ wise...come on, now intake on all turbos is the same or very minimal in modifications...seeing as how you weld your own downpipes...I dont see how it could cost you more to make a downpipe for bigger turbo...so as I said before turbokit production cost is just more expensive because of turbo costs, that's all.
Those extreme cases with external wastegates...well, wastegates are not that expensive really








Anyway lets stick to GT28RS...why pick up CTS or Pagparts kit over APR Stage 3+ if we talk GT28RS? I don't see any reason..especially now when Apr stage 3+ kits are CONSTANTLY on sale.


_Modified by mescaline at 5:25 AM 9-19-2009_


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_

Anyway lets stick to GT28RS...why pick up CTS or Pagparts kit over APR Stage 3+ if we talk GT28RS? I don't see any reason..especially now when Apr stage 3+ kits are CONSTANTLY on sale.

_Modified by mescaline at 5:25 AM 9-19-2009_

I can't speak for the cts kit, but I can for the pag setup:
vband mani/turbine housing: makes switching between different framed turbos easier, tial ss turbine housing is noticeably lighter than iron counterpart. No backing bolts, blowing gaskets, and can also rotated for precise fit.
external gate: adjustable, larger, modular
liberties with software: eurodyne maestro file, different injector sizes, adjustable timing maps for meth, adjustable fueling, map delete, emissions delete
inlet: comes with adapter flange that mates to stock airbox...for those where visible underhood mods will get them in trouble
Downpipe: vband attachement instead of redundant 02 housing that comes with liabilities :more bolts that can break, gasket that can leak, etc
customization: made to order...you need an extra 02 bung for a wideband, no diverter opening on the inlet for a bov, etc...pag will tailor that for your setup...
that's about all I can think of right now...but yeah a vband 28rs will cost close to apr s3 money....but let's not pretend that if the same price, apr is the "obvious choice"....yeah right....


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
How so? Turbokit has nothing to do with IC or engine mods, we talk about turbokits here and prices. To produce manifold with T25 or T3 flange is exactly the same $$ wise...come on, now intake on all turbos is the same or very minimal in modifications...seeing as how you weld your own downpipes...I dont see how it could cost you more to make a downpipe for bigger turbo...so as I said before turbokit production cost is just more expensive because of turbo costs, that's all.
Those extreme cases with external wastegates...well, wastegates are not that expensive really








Anyway lets stick to GT28RS...why pick up CTS or Pagparts kit over APR Stage 3+ if we talk GT28RS? I don't see any reason..especially now when Apr stage 3+ kits are CONSTANTLY on sale.

_Modified by mescaline at 5:25 AM 9-19-2009_

If you're talking about just the hw kit (which isnt reality when it comes to a kit has the potential to deliver 600whp vs low 300whp) fine. You have turbo, wastegate, wastegate plumbing differences. That in itself is quite a few hundred in price differences.
I cant speak for the others, but my kit starts at the RS which is the '3+' so lets not compare it to the 3. When not on sale, there is almost an 1100 difference. When on sale, still like 600... Not to mention, I support major upgrades on these including external gate options and a myriad of turbo options WITH programming to suit..
I dont just 'weld' my own downpipes. I actually have spent thousands on a custom mandrel clamp from a very large and well known piping company to facilitate a continuous bend to bend. Each bend costs more money then most backyard fabricators are willing to pay. Hence pie cuts.
I'm a production entity too that does many things inhouse and outsource what we're not capable of. Not pulling parts and work out of my a$$..


_Modified by [email protected] at 6:00 AM 9-19-2009_


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

apr stage 3+ has quite a few cast parts. Complete inlet pipe is cast and optimized for best flow possible, downturn is cast, MAF housing is cast...and lets not mention the production of inconel manifold which in itself is at least double the cost of other cast manifolds. Honestly when you look at APR Stage 3+ I would have NO idea what else to do to make it more efficient, it's that perfected... and on top of this you get software that is optimized to death for this hardware...with 4 different programs.
20aeman, you're talking about switching turbos and stuff...why do that? We are talking about GT28RS turbokits...if we followed your theory we would all be driving EVOs and STIs around because they are most upgrade friendly cars








For me if APR Stage 3+ is the same price as others, it should be the obvious choice. I saw pagparts turbokits first hand, i installed apr stage 3+ kits... let me tell you, pagparts kit can't come even close...I wish it could, seriously... more $$ to me, but it's the reality speaking. I myself may ditch APR Stage 3+ down the road and go with something bigger but I won't talk crap about stage 3+ because it has its place...
Now for people that need bigger turbos, it's different story.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (mescaline)*

Anyways, back to the topic...here is an off the shelf APR Stage 3+ kit dyno...2.5'' exhaust, FMIC , stock engine.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_apr stage 3+ has quite a few cast parts. Complete inlet pipe is cast and optimized for best flow possible, downturn is cast, MAF housing is cast...and lets not mention the production of inconel manifold which in itself is at least double the cost of other cast manifolds. Honestly when you look at APR Stage 3+ I would have NO idea what else to do to make it more efficient, it's that perfected... and on top of this you get software that is optimized to death for this hardware...with 4 different programs.
20aeman, you're talking about switching turbos and stuff...why do that? We are talking about GT28RS turbokits...if we followed your theory we would all be driving EVOs and STIs around because they are most upgrade friendly cars








For me if APR Stage 3+ is the same price as others, it should be the obvious choice. I saw pagparts turbokits first hand, i installed apr stage 3+ kits... let me tell you, pagparts kit can't come even close...I wish it could, seriously... more $$ to me, but it's the reality speaking. I myself may ditch APR Stage 3+ down the road and go with something bigger but I won't talk crap about stage 3+ because it has its place...
Now for people that need bigger turbos, it's different story.

Again, you're entitled to your opinions. My kit has been perfected over the years. Its a bit different then what you've seen. And I'm sorry, as a production kit, nothing can touch my vband kit, especially the FSI ones.
Wow, casted parts. Let me tell you something about casted MAF housings, inlets and downturns. That signals a company that doesnt want to pay for the labor in the long run to make proper parts on a production scale. They save money in the long run in terms of man hours to manufacture.


_Modified by [email protected] at 6:13 AM 9-19-2009_


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Yea well I think you lost battle on FSI ground a long time ago...for one reason, your FSI kit is incomplete...you need an HPFP to complete it and so far APR HPFP has been the only reliable one as far as I know..and there are two companies that produce it.
APR Stage 3 FSI kits all over the place...making anywhere from 350 to 600whp. I wish they didn't tho....again more $$ for me maybe but again just speaking reality








Instead of partnering up with APR and getting stuff from them you are unable to make yourself (ie. HPFP) you are making enemies. Not a wise move imo.


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_apr stage 3+ has quite a few cast parts. Complete inlet pipe is cast and optimized for best flow possible, downturn is cast, MAF housing is cast...and lets not mention the production of inconel manifold which in itself is at least double the cost of other cast manifolds. 

This is the redundancy though. None of those parts need to be cast. It ends up being heavier, more expensive, while being indistinguishable in flow. I'll take aluminum mandrel piping on the intake any day over a 1 foot cast pipe connected to two long pieces of silicone.
cast maf? we don't need no stinkin maf...it's 2009.
cast 02? again, heavier, 1 extra set of bolts/nuts/gasket that can leak
inconel? unnecessary. Seriously, people run insane amounts of power on cast iron manifolds....inconel is just another redundancy that's overkill especially on a small frame turbo. 
we are talking cost vs. benefit.
you seem to believe the more something costs, the greater the benefit.
I can build a turbo kit out of 24k gold, and have every little piece investment cast. It would have little to no effect on the performance, and it certainly wouldn't any other objective "benefits" either. Unless there is some type of circle jerk for cast parts and rare materials....


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

also, if I have a cast piece...it's a large initial expense...
If I have a fabricated piece, it's a small continuous expense...
over a period of time, it becomes a wash...so who cares?


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
This is the redundancy though. None of those parts need to be cast. It ends up being heavier, more expensive, while being indistinguishable in flow. I'll take aluminum mandrel piping on the intake any day over a 1 foot cast pipe connected to two long pieces of silicone.
cast maf? we don't need no stinkin maf...it's 2009.
cast 02? again, heavier, 1 extra set of bolts/nuts/gasket that can leak
inconel? unnecessary. Seriously, people run insane amounts of power on cast iron manifolds....inconel is just another redundancy that's overkill especially on a small frame turbo. 
we are talking cost vs. benefit.
you seem to believe the more something costs, the greater the benefit.
I can build a turbo kit out of 24k gold, and have every little piece investment cast. It would have little to no effect on the performance, and it certainly wouldn't any other objective "benefits" either. Unless there is some type of circle jerk for cast parts and rare materials....

Well if you're a fan of welded parts why don't you run full-race or weld your own manifold then...it should be a lot cheaper (self welded of course).
What are you talking about heavier? Those parts are not heavier than anyting else you put there... and no silicone hoses there either. Intake goes from airbox directly to turbo and is attached to turbo by bolts. I suggest you take a look at it before speaking.
MAF has been developed for modern cars...so yes please, we need MAF to perfect that tune : )
Inconel manifolds may be unnecessary but so is 35R turbo on FWD car...still people do it.
If you talk cost vs. benefit...then yea, i suggest you weld up your own manifold...put a filter directly on turbo and run that on mafless file... i choose to do things properly and (knock on wood) has served me very well past 40k miles










_Modified by mescaline at 6:22 AM 9-19-2009_


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_Yea well I think you lost battle on FSI ground a long time ago...for one reason, your FSI kit is incomplete...you need an HPFP to complete it and so far APR HPFP has been the only reliable one as far as I know..and there are two companies that produce it.
APR Stage 3 FSI kits all over the place...making anywhere from 350 to 600whp. I wish they didn't tho....again more $$ for me maybe but again just speaking reality








Instead of partnering up with APR and getting stuff from them you are unable to make yourself (ie. HPFP) you are making enemies. Not a wise move imo.

Again, you assume things. I dont have the fleet or the manpower of certain companies. I operate in a much more diverse and metropolitan environment (which is probably 4x the cost of operating where they are). Country life is not for me, sorry. But anyways, I dont dislike them as a company. They do what they do. I have a different vision on where to take certain platforms. I just dont understand how after all these years, where my customers are pumping out impressive dyno after impressive dyno, low 12sec runs on off the shelf stock small port 28 kits, that there is this 'quality' discussion... I just had a guy dyno yesterday (he called me at 10:30pm) at 425whp on a dinky 3071r, pump/110 mix on 27psi...


_Modified by [email protected] at 6:29 AM 9-19-2009_


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Again, you assume things. I dont have the fleet or the manpower of certain companies. I operate in a much more diverse and metropolitan environment (which is probably 4x the cost of operating where they are). Country life is not for me, sorry. But anyways, I dont dislike them as a company. They do what they do. I have a different vision on where to take certain platforms. I just dont understand how after all these years, where my customers are pumping out impressive dyno after impressive dyno, low 12sec runs on off the shelf stock small port 28 kits, that there is this 'quality' discussion...

Lets assume a few...realistic things. We can very safely assume that at least 40-50% of BT kits out there for 1.8T are APRs (APR broke into 300whp a long time before any other company did)... we can also assume that there is more BT talk on vwvortex about other BT kits than APR kits...does this tell you anything about quality? This is direct bolt on and forget about it vs. custom pieced kit. I almost doubled the power of my car and then some more and honestly I never really needed support from APR... quality? Well, you call this low power maybe...but maybe thats strategy of APR...make as much power as stock engine can handle...and then you don't have to worry about broken engines










_Modified by mescaline at 6:29 AM 9-19-2009_


----------



## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: Pooootaaaattooooooeeeee*

I http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif my potato! Nice post NOLA.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
Lets assume a few...realistic things. We can very safely assume that at least 40-50% of BT kits out there for 1.8T are APRs (APR broke into 300whp a long time before any other company did)... we can also assume that there is more BT talk on vwvortex about other BT kits than APR kits...does this tell you anything about quality? This is direct bolt on and forget about it vs. custom pieced kit. I almost doubled the power of my car and then some more and honestly I never really needed support from APR... quality? Well, you call this low power maybe...but maybe thats strategy of APR...make as much power as stock engine can handle...and then you don't have to worry about broken engines









_Modified by mescaline at 6:29 AM 9-19-2009_

I'm assuming you believe in fairies as well. Ok, a company has discovered how to not blow up the venerable 1.8t engine. Ok, I have to bow down to that... I'm guilty of blowing up quite a few


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: Pooootaaaattooooooeeeee (IzVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IzVW* »_I http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif my potato! Nice post NOLA.

Did you ever dyno with new setup man? You owe us that


----------



## Buschwick (Feb 12, 2007)

*FV-QR*

looks like the original post took a crap and it landed on just about every post under it.
way to go
OP: nice thread...didn't know the story behind "disco potato"


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
MAF has been developed for modern cars...so yes please, we need MAF to perfect that tune : )


well, I certainly prefer not to run it...and if given the choice, I'm sure 99 percent of the forum would concur.

_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
Inconel manifolds may be unnecessary but so is 35R turbo on FWD car...still people do it.


Except with a 35r, you have tangible benefits. 

_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
If you talk cost vs. benefit...then yea, i suggest you weld up your own manifold...put a filter directly on turbo and run that on mafless file... i choose to do things properly and (knock on wood) has served me very well past 40k miles










I'm not interested in fabricating anything...hence the reason I purchased a kit. I specifically wanted a cast bottom mount setup with a decent sized turbo...and only one company offers that.


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I'm assuming you believe in fairies as well. Ok, a company has discovered how to not blow up the venerable 1.8t engine. Ok, I have to bow down to that... I'm guilty of blowing up quite a few 

Hehe, no Al, I think you should be thankful they refuse to make turbokits with bigger turbos...otherwise a financial crisis could come upon you lol
Like this I think you should even redirect your customers that seek for GT28RS turbo to APR directly...as a thank you note... then APR may do the same.. see, great business for you and APR..but again, you choose to make enemies of people. No good Al....no good.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
Hehe, no Al, I think you should be thankful they refuse to make turbokits with bigger turbos...otherwise a financial crisis could come upon you lol
Like this I think you should even redirect your customers that seek for GT28RS turbo to APR directly...as a thank you note... then APR may do the same.. see, great business for you and APR..but again, you choose to make enemies of people. No good Al....no good.

this is comedy


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
Hehe, no Al, I think you should be thankful they refuse to make turbokits with bigger turbos...otherwise a financial crisis could come upon you lol
Like this I think you should even redirect your customers that seek for GT28RS turbo to APR directly...as a thank you note... then APR may do the same.. see, great business for you and APR..but again, you choose to make enemies of people. No good Al....no good.

Highly doubtful. They chose the path they chose. They cant operate under those conditions and offer customized kits, sorry. Again, fairy tales. I also chose to service other platforms (R32, 24v, 8v/TDI, etc). You'll be seeing a thread somewhere about a very interesting 24v billeted T67 in a longitudinal platform that I'm thoroughly jealous of...


_Modified by [email protected] at 6:45 AM 9-19-2009_


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
this is comedy























It's not a comedy man, recently I finished a project for a local newspaper company...its a website and when we opened it...i saw that ads department had some strange ads there...they were advertising the very rival of their magazine on their own website..i was like wtf...but when you look closer...no companies are the same really. Those two magazines found their differences and advertised for each other, boosting traffic for each other... I was very surprised by this and ...honestly I think its very good idea. This same strategy is applied to wide range of businesses...somehow automotive industry is left out lol
Even Microsoft is building stuff to support Linux systems...why can't APR and Al get along?










_Modified by mescaline at 6:44 AM 9-19-2009_


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

so let me get this straight...apr is the best because:
1. it uses more cast parts
2. they were the first to hit a lowly 300whp ages ago
3. the exhaust manifold is made of some random grade of inconel. Who knows or cares about the specifics...just the word inconel is enough.
Now compare everything I outlined for the pros on a pag kit, vs. your pros for the apr kit...and it's fairly obvious which kit to go with.
edit: apr and arnold get along fine. It's the 1.8t forum that was burned by apr a long time ago that's at odds with them.


_Modified by 20aeman at 6:45 AM 9-19-2009_


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_so let me get this straight...apr is the best because:
1. it uses more cast parts
2. they were the first to hit a lowly 300whp ages ago
3. the exhaust manifold is made of some random grade of inconel. Who knows or cares about the specifics...just the word inconel is enough.
Now compare everything I outlined for the pros on a pag kit, vs. your pros for the apr kit...and it's fairly obvious which kit to go with.

You can't compare APR and Pagparts because:
1) Pagparts makes hardware, APR makes hardware and software..a complete solution
2) APR is a group of engineers, having a strict business model, ie no custom stuff, mass production only, something like Brabus, Carlsson or Kleemann.
Pagparts is one man job that will do whatever you tell him to do.
3) APR is a rich company that will invest in new things like that cast parts or inconel parts...because they have money for this and secured user base and know that money will come back.

As for better/worse, it depends on what you like really...I have no doubt that Al from pagparts can and will make your GT28RS work just as good as APR Stage 3+...but why make a man sweat and inhale that welding gases when there is a good nice proven turbokit already waiting in APR storage room? lol


_Modified by mescaline at 6:51 AM 9-19-2009_


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
No, first you can't compare APR and Pagparts because:
1) Pagparts makes hardware, APR makes hardware and software..a complete solution
2) APR is a group of engineers, having a strict business model, ie no custom stuff, mass production only, something like Brabus, Carlsson or Kleemann.
Pagparts is one man job that will do whatever you tell him to do.
3) APR is a rich company that will invest in new things like that cast parts or inconel parts...because they have money for this and secured user base and know that money will come back.

Haha, so you like to eat at burger king, mcdonalds and other chains? Packaged all nice and tidy. And contrary to popular belief, no I am not a one man job and no, I wont do whatever you 'tell' me to do. I will apply changes as are necessary or give you individual attention based on what your goals are. Not this puppet on a string image that you like to color. As far as making enemies, you seem to do a pretty good job of that yourself


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Okay ..sorry, 2 men company... I was just trying to point out the difference between companies...please don't consider me your enemy, you know I love you : -)
Okay kids...time to go, as always nice vortexing. Long live APR.....and pagparts of course








Homework for 20aeman, "When mass producing parts, point out why cast parts are better solution than custom made parts ie. welded ones". You got 45 mins, start....now!


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_Okay ..sorry, 2 men company... I was just trying to point out the difference between companies...please don't consider me your enemy, you know I love you : -)
Okay kids...time to go, as always nice vortexing. Long live APR.....and pagparts of course








Homework for 20aeman, "When mass producing parts, point out why cast parts are better solution than custom made parts ie. welded ones". You got 45 mins, start....now!

Funny guy. I know you love to argue, so I always take that into consideration. I also know you are among those ppl swayed by labels. Thats fine too. Labels work in this world. I used to work for a 'label'. With their storage room filled w/ Chinese merchandise... Anyways, back on topic. Sorry Nola, just had to try to set the record str8 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
One interesting thing on a psychological slant... Sweden is a very homogenous country as is Alabama (drove through the state last year). Homogenous places, homogenous kits.. hmmm


_Modified by [email protected] at 7:25 AM 9-19-2009_


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

labels? if i were i wouldn't be modding VWs lol


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: (mescaline)*

Forced Performance is now offering an Hta upgrade for the gt28rs and the gt2871
http://www.audizine.com/forum/...12095
Just an fyi....


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
You can't compare APR and Pagparts because:
1) Pagparts makes hardware, APR makes hardware and software..a complete solution
2) APR is a group of engineers, having a strict business model, ie no custom stuff, mass production only, something like Brabus, Carlsson or Kleemann.
Pagparts is one man job that will do whatever you tell him to do.
3) APR is a rich company that will invest in new things like that cast parts or inconel parts...because they have money for this and secured user base and know that money will come back.


and what does any of this have to do with the performance of the turbo kit?
So let me just make a small correction...
1. it uses more cast parts
2. they were the first to hit a lowly 300whp ages ago
3. the exhaust manifold is made of some random grade of inconel. Who knows or cares about the specifics...just the word inconel is enough.
4. Apr turbo kits are superior because the APR folks collectively wear fancy suits, drive Aston Martins, and are generally smarter than the purchaser of their product. Nice.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
Homework for 20aeman, "When mass producing parts, point out why cast parts are better solution than custom made parts ie. welded ones". You got 45 mins, start....now!

If it's a non structural item, the only thing I can think of is cost. APR guys are accountants and know profit margins. Easier to shake a couple of peoples hands and have stuff cast up for them in huge numbers than pay someone continually to built a more efficient setup. That's why the kit assembles like legos. There are several unnecessary joints on both the inlet and the downpipe, simply because they'd rather have a potential for a leak than pay somebody to make it out of 1 piece.


_Modified by 20aeman at 7:24 AM 9-19-2009_


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: (20aeman)*

!!!!GUYS!!!! 
I enjoy a good forum fight about Apr as much as the next guy... However.. NOLA put a lot of work into creating this nice little informational thread.. You are polluting it with your fighting.. There are a couple other gt28rs threads on this page that you can argue in... Be respectful of NOLA and keep it out of this one.... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
Well, you call this low power maybe...but maybe thats strategy of APR...make as much power as stock engine can handle...and then you don't have to worry about broken engines































I think that's sig worthy! 

_Quote, originally posted by *dubinsincuwereindiapers* »_!!!!GUYS!!!! 
I enjoy a good forum fight about Apr as much as the next guy... However.. NOLA put a lot of work into creating this nice little informational thread.. You are polluting it with your fighting.. There are a couple other gt28rs threads on this page that you can argue in... Be respectful of NOLA and keep it out of this one.... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Agreed! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Please!!
APR is not for everyone. They have their own vision and that's "turn key, i don't like to get messy, reliable, oem, set it and forget it kit"
Lets leave it at that and not compare to other big power and reliable goals. 


_Modified by Lou_Y2mK5 at 8:49 AM 9-19-2009_


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (Lou_Y2mK5)*

2 pages already















Seriously, i'm gonna go back and read it all when i have time. Looks like an "interesting" discussion lol


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*

Oh, things I still need:
Anyone want to get me some info on the del rio file? Like price and hardware requirements?
Also,
Arnold, does the eurodyne file require the s4 housing and sensor?


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_2 pages already















Seriously, i'm gonna go back and read it all when i have time. Looks like an "interesting" discussion lol

youve read all the same crap before. Its the NEVER ending crap thats on par with spoolin for annoyance. To bad your nice thread got brought down to such a low level


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubinsincuwereindiapers* »_Forced Performance is now offering an Hta upgrade for the gt28rs and the gt2871
http://www.audizine.com/forum/...12095
Just an fyi....








 I think this little tidbit got missed in all the bickering


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*

Dont see that being a benefit, the turbos are almost maxed out on pump with the small turbine wheels. There is a reason why people make way more power with a 3071r vs a 2871r


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

the hta has a different compressor wheel and housing... It will make a bit more power... probably not much. but a bit more.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*

I know all to well what the HTA upgrade is, its nothing new. Adding more compressor to a small turbo will either choke the turbine wheel faster or cause the turbo to surge on our motors. Better off just getting a 3071r then spending $1100 on a RS/71r and then more to upgrade it. You can see how well the gt2876r's work, same for the 3082/3040r


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

i feel ya... just throwing the info out there.. im doing a 20/20 with 10-1 and a 3076r 63 ar myself... i ran a gt28rs on my old B5 and it was fun for a couple months but got boring. im not going the t28 framed route again.. not even on the mk4 which is signifigantly lighter


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubinsincuwereindiapers* »_i im doing a 20/20 with 10-1 

did i start some sort of trend


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

No i think Adam did


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*

I had mine WELL before Adam did, more than a year before










_Modified by cincyTT at 3:10 PM 9-19-2009_


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_Oh, things I still need:
Anyone want to get me some info on the del rio file? Like price and hardware requirements?
Also,
Arnold, does the eurodyne file require the s4 housing and sensor? 

The Eurodyne file can be calibrated for S4 housing, yes, if you would like to run a MAF and 630cc injectors.
And as for 20/20 10:1, I think cincy was first as far as I'm concerned, but Marc from AutoXtrem made the most power out of them


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
And as for 20/20 10:1, I think cincy was first as far as I'm concerned, but Marc from AutoXtrem made the most power out of them









Thanks for the pistons again


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I stand corrected... either way it seems like the best build for the street. i had no idea that you did that first cincy







for you


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
If it's a non structural item, the only thing I can think of is cost. APR guys are accountants and know profit margins. Easier to shake a couple of peoples hands and have stuff cast up for them in huge numbers than pay someone continually to built a more efficient setup. That's why the kit assembles like legos. There are several unnecessary joints on both the inlet and the downpipe, simply because they'd rather have a potential for a leak than pay somebody to make it out of 1 piece.


You failed, it's consistency... that's why cast parts are used in mass production.
As for HTA...i found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIbG2qDdM2A


----------



## 6g72 (Apr 28, 2009)

Great info nola. 
One Q: APR says i can take the 3+ kit at 300 whp, run the car hard at auto-x and never worry bout snapping a rod?


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (6g72)*


_Quote, originally posted by *6g72* »_Great info nola. 
One Q: APR says i can take the 3+ kit at 300 whp, run the car hard at auto-x and never worry bout snapping a rod?

Yea, i did that actually...road racing for whole day, 2-3 hours ..non-stop reving to 7200rpm... not a single problem.


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## 6g72 (Apr 28, 2009)

Its guys like me that make this post so good. im an idiot still, and am weighing the ko4, 2860rs and t3t4. 
Is the 28rs realy in its sweet spot at 300 on the 1.8, or would it be happier pushing just a bit more boost than makes 300whp?
can you tell im trying to avoid doing rods? ha


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
As for better/worse, it depends on what you like really...I have no doubt that Al from pagparts can and will make your GT28RS work just as good as APR Stage 3+...but why make a man sweat and inhale that welding gases when there is a good nice proven turbokit already waiting in APR storage room? lol
_Modified by mescaline at 6:51 AM 9-19-2009_

Its similar to driving two different cars with the same horsepower. Whats better? driving a 500 honda or a 500hp lamborghini? Sweat was put into both of these, but the lambo looks much better and you get rezognition from it. 
I am not sure if you can switch out turbos freely with the APR kit since they have their own manifold, but with pagparts you can switch out turbos i am sure. 
There is nothing wrong with APR or any other turbo suppliers. If you want something build for what you need you go to Arnold or other, if you want to buy a kit and put it on and wonder if you can add somethign to it then go with APR. Its all about your own choice and it shouldnt be based on "APR makes the hardware and software for it so its better"


_Modified by Dub-Nub at 2:48 PM 9-19-2009_


----------



## bjtgtr (Dec 13, 2006)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*

Great info NOLA. Your thread should really help any 1.8T new comers get a better grasp on the upgrade options that are available.








as for the other discussion. its different strokes for different folks. I perfer the abiltiy to upgrade when the itch occurs, others just want to set it and forget it. regardless once you use a bottom mount v-band ( thank you Arnold) you'll never want to fool with studs, lock washers and lock nuts EVER AGAIN








i hope the mods will add this info to the FAQ


_Modified by bjtgtr at 5:51 PM 9-19-2009_


----------



## iao4gli18t (Jul 31, 2009)

*Re: (mescaline)*

With all that said and it was a lot I will be going
With the Apr stg3+ kit I have noticed one thing in
The short time I have been a member here. Not
Once have I seen a stg3+ kit for sale in the classifieds. 
I think that says it all.


----------



## PimpMyRide (Apr 30, 2004)

*Re: (iao4gli18t)*

The only thing that i dont like about the gt28rs is that they are internally gated and if you were to buy a gt28rs kit you either have to run a wastegate block off plate or buy a manifold that doesnt have a flange for a wastegate and later on down the road you have to upgarde manifolds when you decide to get a bigger turbo requiring a wastegate.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (PimpMyRide)*

You do know you can buy them in a T3 housing right?


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_You do know you can buy them in a T3 housing right? 

or like this:


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

i think the gt28r and 28rs are the same turbo. only thing i could find different about the 2 is the 28rs has a turbine wheel that is .8 mm larger the compressor wheels are both 60mm


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (coreyj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *coreyj* »_i think the gt28r and 28rs are the same turbo. only thing i could find different about the 2 is the 28rs has a turbine wheel that is .8 mm larger the compressor wheels are both 60mm

Here a link to the complete line up below its about 60hp
( gt28r>gt28rs) difference in potential .
The RS is a nice DD turbo good for 300whp on pump and 330-350 on race gas with a good tune







Bob.G
http://www.atpturbo.com/root/t...p.htm


----------



## yohimbe (Jun 13, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

1st: why the hell are in the first post a T3 kits , I thought it is a gt28rs thread.
2nd: here a GT28RS Setup on a MK3 Polo 6N with 373hp, AGU engine, full race manifold, giant intercooler, lowered compression, 3 inch exhaust system, AR 0.86 turbine housing, 1.5 bar boost + various modifications for engine strength
hp are crank horespowers(not my car)










_Modified by yohimbe at 4:34 AM 9-20-2009_


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (yohimbe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yohimbe* »_1st: why the hell are in the first post a T3 kits , I thought it is a gt28rs thread.


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (yohimbe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yohimbe* »_1st: why the hell are in the first post a T3 kits , I thought it is a gt28rs thread.

The 28RS can be had with a T3 turbine housing (see screwball's pic above), therefore you can use it on any T3 kit as well. This info is also listed in the "tubine housing options" section http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
EDIT: just realized that I still had the 50trim listed under the items included in the CTS kit. It has been changed to a 28RS. My bad!


_Modified by NOLA_VDubber at 10:02 AM 9-20-2009_


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (6g72)*


_Quote, originally posted by *6g72* »_Its guys like me that make this post so good. im an idiot still, and am weighing the ko4, 2860rs and t3t4. 
Is the 28rs realy in its sweet spot at 300 on the 1.8, or would it be happier pushing just a bit more boost than makes 300whp?
can you tell im trying to avoid doing rods? ha

Plenty people do just fine with this turbo without rods, but plenty people also snap rods with it. If you want to be able to push the turbo and sleep easy at night, just do them.


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
I can't speak for the cts kit, but I can for the pag setup:
vband mani/turbine housing: makes switching between different framed turbos easier, tial ss turbine housing is noticeably lighter than iron counterpart. No backing bolts, blowing gaskets, and can also rotated for precise fit.
external gate: adjustable, larger, modular
liberties with software: eurodyne maestro file, different injector sizes, adjustable timing maps for meth, adjustable fueling, map delete, emissions delete
inlet: comes with adapter flange that mates to stock airbox...for those where visible underhood mods will get them in trouble
Downpipe: vband attachement instead of redundant 02 housing that comes with liabilities :more bolts that can break, gasket that can leak, etc
customization: made to order...you need an extra 02 bung for a wideband, no diverter opening on the inlet for a bov, etc...pag will tailor that for your setup...
that's about all I can think of right now...but yeah a vband 28rs will cost close to apr s3 money....but let's not pretend that if the same price, apr is the "obvious choice"....yeah right....

Couldn't agree more. When you add it all up, there's obviously a clear winner.


----------



## darzamat (Jun 1, 2007)

is it possible to get 400WHP if we support gt28rs with cams and other stuff ?


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (darzamat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darzamat* »_is it possible to get 400WHP if we support gt28rs with cams and other stuff ?

No, its a strech for a 2871r to get to 400whp reliably. 350-375whp is about the tops for a RS


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Yep, what cincy said. If you want 400whp, get a 3071R or a 3076R


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

^^ or you could always nawwzz it up.


----------



## ibiza 20vf (Nov 21, 2008)

*Re: OFFICIAL: GT28RS Turbo Thread (NOLA_VDubber)*

Interesting topic for us the "small" BT's..
I have this lovely potato on a stock engine and i boost around 1,2-1,4. Sometimes that is "necessary" i hit 1,5-1,6 bar..I havent dynoed yet and i dont know how safe is this..Does anyone knows about how much torque it produces at these boost levels?Any maha dynos?


----------



## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: OFFICIAL: GT28RS Turbo Thread (ibiza 20vf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ibiza 20vf* »_Interesting topic for us the "small" BT's..
I have this lovely potato on a stock engine and i boost around 1,2-1,4. Sometimes that is "necessary" i hit 1,5-1,6 bar..I havent dynoed yet and i dont know how safe is this..Does anyone knows about how much torque it produces at these boost levels?Any maha dynos?

You are pushing your luck at 1,5-1,6bar on stock engine, i run torgue peak boost at 1,55bar and redline boost 1,45bar -my dyno is on the firste page (Kleemann), this torgue is what you would call rod snapper on stock engine.
A good thing about getting your car dynoed, is that it will reveal how the tune is, spikes etc...get it done


----------



## ibiza 20vf (Nov 21, 2008)

*Re: OFFICIAL: GT28RS Turbo Thread (DK_GTI_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DK_GTI_racer* »_
You are pushing your luck at 1,5-1,6bar on stock engine, i run torgue peak boost at 1,55bar and redline boost 1,45bar -my dyno is on the firste page (Kleemann), this torgue is what you would call rod snapper on stock engine.
A good thing about getting your car dynoed, is that it will reveal how the tune is, spikes etc...get it done









OMG!! 43-44kgm torque?.. Its deadly i assume.. But with 1,45ct to redline u made 370hp? It sounds to me very nice but a little 2 good 2 be true.. Do u have extended mods? Yeap the dyno must be made..


----------



## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: OFFICIAL: GT28RS Turbo Thread (ibiza 20vf)*

Its all in my sig







, but i have the APR intake manifold(that baby net me 40bhp peak and in the revband, and in the revband torgue gains of 40-50nm but not peak gains







)....my engine is AGU bigport oem head, dbc and i have aquamist 1s w/m setup...anyways in this thread you can see before and after dyno with APR im and comparisons etc,...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4533826


----------



## yohimbe (Jun 13, 2005)

I think with our AGU engines we have a little benefit because of the lower compression ratio plus the known big port benefit.


----------



## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (yohimbe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yohimbe* »_I think with our AGU engines we have a little benefit because of the lower compression ratio plus the known big port benefit.

Compression is the same








, but we have the benefit of the bigger port and definitely with the APR im







but we lack the better ECU


----------



## yohimbe (Jun 13, 2005)

*Re: (DK_GTI_racer)*

AGU = 9,3 : 1
other 1.8T 150 or 180 HP = 9,5 : 1
S3,Cupra R 225 HP = 8,9 : 1
210 S3, 156 HP1.8T, and 160 Audi I don´t know


----------



## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (yohimbe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yohimbe* »_AGU = 9,3 : 1
other 1.8T 150 or 180 HP = 9,5 : 1
S3,Cupra R 225 HP = 8,9 : 1
210 S3, 156 HP1.8T, and 160 Audi I don´t know

Dont know where you got your info from, but this actual specs.










_Modified by DK_GTI_racer at 7:32 AM 9-22-2009_


----------



## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (DK_GTI_racer)*

How is that for fun btw, i didnt know my crank was forged, always tought it was the same cast one as in AEB engine..funny, but nice to know


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (DK_GTI_racer)*

damn, you AGU guys get Large port heads, forged cranks, and 20mm wrist pins. Lucky basterds!!!!!


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_damn, you AGU guys get Large port heads, forged cranks, and 20mm wrist pins. Lucky basterds!!!!!

DBC also, but no real tune from Uni or Tapp, minor trade offs


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

yea but no wideband o2 and it uses some old ECU...too bad :/
My engine got forged crank as well ho ho


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
My engine got forged crank as well ho ho

all the transverse cars do


----------



## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
DBC also, but no real tune from Uni or Tapp, minor trade offs

Nope, but well in regions where AGU is available a lot of companys are offering custom sw, but the positive side altough old ecu is that throttle respons on cable is sooo nice...


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
No, its a strech for a 2871r to get to 400whp reliably.

Anyone ever made 400whp from a 2871R? would love to see that.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Anyone ever made 400whp from a 2871R? would love to see that.

Klecker was claiming it on pump and meth. Im sure Sav has the dyno floating around
_Modified by cincyTT at 12:29 PM 9-22-2009_


_Modified by cincyTT at 12:29 PM 9-22-2009_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
Klecker was claiming it on pump and meth. Im sure Sav has the dyno floating around

Didnt realise the compressor on the 2871R could support 400whp let alone on pump & meth.
interesting.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4180745 claims 350whp on 21psi and 400whp on 30psi on a .63 2871r


----------



## yohimbe (Jun 13, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

I don´t know why your chart tells the agu would habe 9.5:1 too , I have different informations, I do not know exactly because I did not have tested the head volume, but if you test the capacity of the piston with a glass plate on the block the agu has more volume than a newer 19m wrist pin 1.8T(tested it on a SEAT Leon 180hp and a 1999 Golf AGU) and most 1.8T guys tell the same. 
there are also newer 1.8T engines with euro 5 from Seat which have 9:1 ration on 150HP
http://www.seat.de/modelle_/ex....html

also the AGU guys have no presure sensor which therefore no hazzle with limp mode


----------



## umphufu (Mar 17, 2008)

doh....my engine isnt listed there...
ive got the AUQ :/
i still find it dodgy that one can achieve 400whp on a 2871 :S


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (umphufu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *umphufu* »_doh....my engine isnt listed there...
ive got the AUQ :/
i still find it dodgy that one can achieve 400whp on a 2871 :S 

Same as AUM, K03S turbo, 19mm rods, forged crank, same compression...it got a bit bigger injectors I think or something like this, not sure.


----------



## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

The cars with ko3s came with 317cc injectors
i think most of the AEB's cam with some where around 240cc injectors
figures are @ 3 bar


----------



## Modena360rsi (Feb 1, 2005)

*Re: (coreyj)*

For all the dyno graphs shown on page 1 are they all 28RS with .64 A/R? Cause I'm curious what the difference would be between that and the .86 A/R? I know the turbine housings are different, .86 being larger able to flow more air, but I'm curious in spool time. How much different would it be using the same components?


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (Modena360rsi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Modena360rsi* »_For all the dyno graphs shown on page 1 are they all 28RS with .64 A/R? Cause I'm curious what the difference would be between that and the .86 A/R? I know the turbine housings are different, .86 being larger able to flow more air, but I'm curious in spool time. How much different would it be using the same components? 

300-400rpm difference or so in spool up but more HP on .86 of course


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Modena360rsi* »_For all the dyno graphs shown on page 1 are they all 28RS with .64 A/R? Cause I'm curious what the difference would be between that and the .86 A/R? I know the turbine housings are different, .86 being larger able to flow more air, but I'm curious in spool time. How much different would it be using the same components? 

While I have no experience with the .86, most users around here have posted up dissapointment with that housing. IIRC, the APR guys even did some testing and actually found there to not be too much of an increase in power, only spool up time.
If you search the archives, user GT-ER's threads will pop up. He's had experience with the .64 RS, the .86 RS, and the .64 2871R. According to him, the next logical step up from the .64 RS is the .64 2871R. With the 2871R, you get the same spool up time as the .86 RS but more power up top


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
300-400rpm difference or so in spool up but more HP on .86 of course

I don't think the compressor has enough juice to hit the flow limitations of the .64...so in the end, you'd just add lag.


----------



## Blu--Pearl (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*



NOLA_VDubber said:


> Hey nola whats up man hows things and car doing. Just wanted to put my 2 cents in. That dyno pic u have of mines is one of my frist one i maid when i broke the stock rods. I think that was the 1st or 2nd pull. My final pull was 288whp to the wheels on mustang dyno http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
> Just want people to know after my engine build with rods and new oem parts all i did was went to 630cc injecters and uni file and added a home maid 3" intake pipe and the car maid 297whp and 288whtq on mustang dyno. For some reason the 3" intake help the car more than i would though. Just my 2 cents http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (Blu--Pearl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blu--Pearl* »_


NOLA_VDubber said:


> Hey nola whats up man hows things and car doing. Just wanted to put my 2 cents in. That dyno pic u have of mines is one of my frist one i maid when i broke the stock rods. I think that was the 1st or 2nd pull. My final pull was 288whp to the wheels on mustang dyno http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
> Just want people to know after my engine build with rods and new oem parts all i did was went to 630cc injecters and uni file and added a home maid 3" intake pipe and the car maid 297whp and 288whtq on mustang dyno. For some reason the 3" intake help the car more than i would though. Just my 2 cents http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif






NOLA_VDubber said:


> Hey G. Well, it all starts at the intake. You start off good there, more then likely, you'll end up better then if you hadnt on the other side


----------



## Wynn's04GLI (Sep 23, 2009)

*Re: OFFICIAL: GT28RS Turbo Thread (NOLA_VDubber)*

I have 04 GLI that i want to start doing upgrades on. I bought it used from a dealership so i have no idea what upgrades it already has. I wonder what type of turbo kit is best for my car. What other types of upgrades should i do to my car???


----------



## Blu--Pearl (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

U are very correct sir very correct. Live and learn. Everyday I learn somthing new. Oh i think i figured out twhat was going on with my car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (Blu--Pearl)*

Great thread! nice to see the facts all in one place rather than the mystery "way cheaper" 3K complete kits people always talk about. 
If you want 300 WHP and you have a calculator the answer is pretty clear







Only 1 option listed installs, and burns the tires to 90 over a weekend.
If you feel you need 400 whp then maybe there is a different path


----------



## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_Great thread! nice to see the facts all in one place rather than the mystery "way cheaper" 3K complete kits people always talk about. 
If you want 300 WHP and you have a calculator the answer is pretty clear







Only 1 option listed installs, and burns the tires to 90 over a weekend.
If you feel you need 400 whp then maybe there is a different path 

Great sum up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif x2
BTW Engineerd you are the proof on that vid that on the track 350hp is enough







very cool...
You got pictures of your suspension setups and specs on that crazy thing?


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (DK_GTI_racer)*

350 hp is more than enough for these cars 
I have broken 
3 O2j transmissions - 2 O2J clutches - 2 O2J axles
5 CV Boots melted on 6 speed outer left joint 
3 outer left front axles - Now running the latest version Raxles
2 outer left front hubs <--- very scary
3 front wheel bearings


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_350 hp is more than enough for these cars 
I have broken 
3 O2j transmissions - 2 O2J clutches - 2 O2J axles
5 CV Boots melted on 6 speed outer left joint 
3 outer left front axles - Now running the latest version Raxles
2 outer left front hubs <--- very scary
3 front wheel bearings


425whp is about what I think should be the maximum goal on a full daily driver. Going to play around w/ piston deck designs/compression and cam profiles (to dial in cranking pressure) to see if i can make better power w/ less boost, thus generating a more reliable car w/ a nice powerband.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Increasing the squish area on the piston in such a way to concentrate A/F mixture towards the sparkplug should do it. Besides running lower boost, downfall to increasing squish is the chance of the motor going solid if too much water/meth is used at high boost pressure.


_Modified by [email protected] at 10:01 AM 9-26-2009_


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
425whp is about what I think should be the maximum goal on a full daily driver. Going to play around w/ piston deck designs/compression and cam profiles (to dial in cranking pressure) to see if i can make better power w/ less boost, thus generating a more reliable car w/ a nice powerband.

I think MAKING the power is not a big issue here really. As Frankie said before it's kinda written on the wall. Now putting that power on the ground in FWD car is a big freakin project and will cost more than everything else you put into engine.
enginerd has way more $$ in suspension/brakes than he has in engine.
He said 350hp is more than enough because obviously with insane amount of $$ into suspension he still has trouble putting power down, increasing power would be just dumb. He is breaking stuff because he is using this power...I don't break anything on my car because I spin my tires to over 60mph, wheelspin = no load on transmission and axles...thus nothing has to break.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (mescaline)*

Run around on slicks and then you start breaking everything.

Run around on stret tires and 400 whp isn't really very fast. 
Run around slow in a "fast car" what's the point - my dyno and my E -pee pee is bigger than yours. 
I get wheelspin in excess if 20% front to rear difference at over 100 mph on a road course - with 245 slicks - I have logged this with my racelogic traction control - I don't need any more power
Downforce is the next project


----------



## WOB-SH573 (Apr 21, 2005)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_Run around on slicks and then you start breaking everything.

Run around on stret tires and 400 whp isn't really very fast. 
Run around slow in a "fast car" what's the point - my dyno and my E -pee pee is bigger than yours. 
I get wheelspin in excess if 20% front to rear difference at over 100 mph on a road course - with 245 slicks - I have logged this with my racelogic traction control - I don't need any more power
Downforce is the next project 



I couldn't agree more, LOL. I have an insane amount of wheelspin (when my car is running right







) and that's on similar if not the same tires as Justin. I think one of the reasons I'm breaking less hard parts is actually because of the wheelspin though.
It really depends on what people are trying to do with the car. Justin & I are doing track events were big power isn't always better. More often than not his car is faster than mine one a road course, despite having less power. 
As for downforce I've been working on it. Tested a splitter at NJ (had to many other problems to really make much progress). I'm going to make new front fenders & put my car on a min of 275 tires next year to try & help with traction.
Here's a shot of the splitter:


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (WOB-SH573)*

Great posts guys! Traction is next on my list as well


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_Run around on slicks and then you start breaking everything.

Run around on stret tires and 400 whp isn't really very fast. 
Run around slow in a "fast car" what's the point - my dyno and my E -pee pee is bigger than yours. 
I get wheelspin in excess if 20% front to rear difference at over 100 mph on a road course - with 245 slicks - I have logged this with my racelogic traction control - I don't need any more power
Downforce is the next project 


Well, you have to realize what I'm saying. List of turbos that can make 425whp is 2871r, 3071r w/ good engine VE's. You're not going to run it at full tilt all the time, so what you realisticall drive around in is low to mid 300whp on moderate boost levels and some headroom when you want to play around, alternating grip on tires. On a daily driver, this would be ideal for me...


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (WOB-SH573)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WOB-SH573* »_
put my car on a min of 275 tires next year to try & help with traction.


Got some 17x9 with et17 that should allow me to run 275's as a daily and have a flush fitment. Dont get some people making 300+ whp and still running 225's


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
Got some 17x9 with et17 that should allow me to run 275's as a daily and have a flush fitment. Dont get some people making 300+ whp and still running 225's

Perfect rim size, what rim is this? But again tire is not everything, problem with FWD cars is that front lifts off when you punch the throttle ...so stiffer springs should also help a lot.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*

Some lightweight Drag 31 wheels. I have stiffer coilovers also. Not building my car to be the best from a stop since im no drag racer. Still wouldnt mind a low 12 high 11 on street tires however to know im putting the power down


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_Some lightweight Drag 31 wheels. I have stiffer coilovers also. Not building my car to be the best from a stop since im no drag racer. Still wouldnt mind a low 12 high 11 on street tires however to know im putting the power down

Thanks for tips, those wheels are not expensive at all...but shipping to Europe is going to cost me tons probably lol, over here it's very hard to find a wide, lightweight wheel with some custom ETs.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*

Just picked mine up yesterday for $501 shipped, would of been $30 less if i shipped them to my cousin and didnt have to pay sales tax on them....








They should be around 18lbs where my stock 17x7.5 are 35lb. Just upset the tires i wanted went up $33/tire the other day


----------



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

wonder if porsche boxster calipers and 312mm rotors could go under them.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*

I have wilwoods on my car now and steelies will fit with a 5mm spacer (caliper is to thick). The 312's should clear no problem with 17's


----------



## 18bora. (Aug 18, 2007)

*Re: 28re-2871*

Pushing the RS close to 400whp
























2871 .64
416whp on race gas, 373 on pump.








2871 .64 maxed out


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: 28re-2871 (18bora.)*

edit: saw the block pics...damn
that's nuts










_Modified by NOLA_VDubber at 3:06 PM 9-26-2009_


----------



## danzig20v (Feb 9, 2006)

So i have a little bit of info on the GIAC Del Rio software.
I've been running it for 18 months about now, and haven't had a single hiccup! My dyno is the 303whp one from Trick engineering.
As far as the actual file, the MAF and injectors are right. GIAC also recommends that you use a CAI, whether it actually makes a difference to the file, i dont know. 
The cost for the file by itself is 700. Im not sure what the whole kit runs these days, as I had all my HW before i got the SW, i was running REVo before and what a world of difference!
I drive 70 miles a day back and forth to work, and its my daily right now, never a single problem! Even in these New Hampshire winter mornings, when i get up at 4 to go to work, and its 10 degrees out, she still starts right up!
Im looking forward to see what the file can do with some Race Gas/watermeth and a lil more boost!


----------



## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: 28re-2871 (18bora.)*

Sam at what boost level did you break the GT28rs? and what was the normal boostlevel on racegas at redline?


----------



## 18bora. (Aug 18, 2007)

*Re: 28re-2871 (DK_GTI_racer)*

Around 30 psi. The RS is worthless past 26 psi, it blows nothing but hot air.


----------



## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: 28re-2871 (18bora.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18bora.* »_Around 30 psi. The RS is worthless past 26 psi, it blows nothing but hot air.

Hmm i need to read my ebc manual, for some reason im having trouble getting boost above 21psi at redline 7k, i can hit 24-25psi no problem at 4k, but it tappers down to 21psi







- it might be wg arm as well that needs tighten, it irritates me big time, but i know the ebc can be programmed to RPM set point boost, so programing it to hit 24-25psi at redline should be possible.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: 28re-2871 (DK_GTI_racer)*

24 lbs to 7200 is no problem on this turbo.


----------



## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: 28re-2871 (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_24 lbs to 7200 is no problem on this turbo. 

After reading the Eboost2 manual, i have come to the conclusion that its the sensitivity on WG settings in eboost2 that i need to adjust, and hope it clears it...its just frustrating seeing boost tapper down at redline, but i hope its solved










_Modified by DK_GTI_racer at 4:48 PM 9-27-2009_


----------



## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (yohimbe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yohimbe* »_I don´t know why your chart tells the agu would habe 9.5:1 too , I have different informations, I do not know exactly because I did not have tested the head volume, but if you test the capacity of the piston with a glass plate on the block the agu has more volume than a newer 19m wrist pin 1.8T(tested it on a SEAT Leon 180hp and a 1999 Golf AGU) and most 1.8T guys tell the same. 
there are also newer 1.8T engines with euro 5 from Seat which have 9:1 ration on 150HP
http://www.seat.de/modelle_/ex....html
Yohimbe this is the chart from Etka, its 100% reliable on info - also i even believe if you look in the owners manual etc. the compression is listed, the AGU has same compression as the rest except TT225, s3 and cupras.
Or if in doubt, google AGU compression, that should also convince you








also the AGU guys have no presure sensor which therefore no hazzle with limp mode


----------



## bananas (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubinsincuwereindiapers* »_Forced Performance is now offering an Hta upgrade for the gt28rs and the gt2871
http://www.audizine.com/forum/...12095
Just an fyi....









I just dyno'd this weekend. 
Details: http://www.audigeeks.com/forum...408.0 
Pics and discussion: http://www.audizine.com/forum/...98206
3rd gear spool (900ft elevation): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIbG2qDdM2A


----------



## black maqic20th (Aug 10, 2008)

i wan tot go with a 28 series and this is helping a lot great thread


----------



## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (bananas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bananas* »_
I just dyno'd this weekend. 
Details: http://www.audigeeks.com/forum...408.0 
Pics and discussion: http://www.audizine.com/forum/...98206
3rd gear spool (900ft elevation): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIbG2qDdM2A


Nice numbers, i see i need to try out more boost - this is my new dyno (dynoed today) at 21,8psi.
This is 335whp - numbers on dyno are crank. 








Do you have pics of the HTA GT28 turbo?


_Modified by DK_GTI_racer at 3:18 PM 10-6-2009_


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (bananas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bananas* »_
I just dyno'd this weekend. 

Damn, that's pretty badass http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bananas (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: (DK_GTI_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DK_GTI_racer* »_
Do you have pics of the HTA GT28 turbo?

Yes, see above:
Pics and discussion: http://www.audizine.com/forum/...98206


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## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (bananas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bananas* »_Yes, see above:
Pics and discussion: http://www.audizine.com/forum/...98206

Thanks so the wheel is GT3076r or? its unclear in the thread - but im very jealus of your billet wheel - how much did it cost and was it easy swap?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: (bananas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bananas* »_Yes, see above:
Pics and discussion: http://www.audizine.com/forum/...98206

This would make me go "bananas" also


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## bananas (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: (DK_GTI_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DK_GTI_racer* »_
Thanks so the wheel is GT3076r or? its unclear in the thread - but im very jealus of your billet wheel - how much did it cost and was it easy swap?

No, the wheel is 68mm. Easy swap? You have to send it in to get the wheel swap, but I bought mine preassembled. The 68mm wheel fits inside a standard 28rs cold side (once it's been machined), so turbo swap is a non-issue, it's standard 28rs size.
The upgrade is around $600. I did not get mine from FP.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (bananas)*

original post updated with info on the 2868. Thanks bananas


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

If this thing flows 48lbs, can it really even be compared to a 28rs? It's more like an hta 2871 or 3071.


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## bananas (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_If this thing flows 48lbs, can it really even be compared to a 28rs? It's more like an hta 2871 or 3071.
Considering it is a 28rs hot side, a 28rs compressor cover, and a 68mm compressor (as compared to the 71mm wheel of the other two turbos you mentioned), It is the exact same "package size" as a 28rs. I'd say it's not appropriate to call it a HTA 2871, especially since rumor has it that there is a wheel for 2871 in the works, which I imagine will be larger than 68mm. 
I don't know what they're going to market my turbo as, but HTA 2868 is as good a guess as any.


_Modified by bananas at 2:50 PM 10-7-2009_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Dub-Nub)*

Great post guys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
2868 is going to be a fun turbocharger


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## HSTuning (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: (bananas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bananas* »_Considering it is a 28rs hot side, a 28rs compressor cover, and a 68mm compressor (as compared to the 71mm wheel of the other two turbos you mentioned), It is the exact same "package size" as a 28rs. I'd say it's not appropriate to call it a HTA 2871, especially since rumor has it that there is a wheel for 2871 in the works, which I imagine will be larger than 68mm. 
I don't know what they're going to market my turbo as, but HTA 2868 is as good a guess as any.

_Modified by bananas at 2:50 PM 10-7-2009_

Last I spoke with Robert Young they were doing an HTA3071 b/c they didn't like the comp wheel/turb wheel combination on the 2871. Totally mismatched and improving the comp wheel on that turbo only makes it an even more worse match. Interesting they're pursuing a 28rs version though.


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## mcmahonbj (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

im exicted to get my APR stage 3+ kit with gt2871r, siemens 630cc injectors, unitronic 630cc mafless file, custom dual-pass fmic, walbro 225lph inline pump, (apr intank pump maybe)


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## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Did everyone miss that i on a normal GT28rs at 21,8psi is making same wheel hp as this HPA







-377bhp.
but turbo is promising.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (DK_GTI_racer)*

you have a large port head and intake manifold, so your numbers don't count


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_you have a large port head and intake manifold, so your numbers don't count
















OH MY GOD ITS MADNESS!!!!


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

lol 21.8 psi


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## bananas (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: (DK_GTI_racer)*

Haha, what a bunch of jackals









_Quote, originally posted by *DK_GTI_racer* »_Did everyone miss that i on a normal GT28rs at 21,8psi is making same wheel hp as this HPA







-377bhp.
but turbo is promising.
 
Don't forget you're FWD and I'm AWD, but seriously your results are pretty stellar for 21,8psi (22psi







). People typical say 22% drive train loss for quattro: 335/.78 = 430bhp. Converting from wheel to crank is dumb though, so 335whp it is!
People are interested in my turbo because it's new and shiny! Also, because the spool is quick and powerband is wide. Also, I paid them to talk about it.


_Modified by bananas at 4:07 PM 10-8-2009_


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (bananas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bananas* »_
People are interested in my turbo because it's new and shiny! Also, because the spool is quick and powerband is wide. Also, I paid them to talk about it.


The truth comes out!








Seriously though news stuff is always cool to learn about, I think everyone should be glad to see someone sharing it.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

so thats 335AWHP? damn now thats impressive...


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## DK_GTI_racer (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_you have a large port head and intake manifold, so your numbers don't count































Thats not fair















Then Bananas dont count either, he is on different turbo















But seriusly bananas that turbo is very impressive..wonder what it would do to my setup








this turbo is so cool news to us GT28rs fans, glad to see its available http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
And guys dont mock me because i have accurate ebc with boost gauge







, so 21.8psi it is.
Anyways bananas what fuel pump is that you are running? i saw your vid with only fumes in tank, im interested in your solution altough its probably a lot different install then us mk4 guys.
BTW dont race your car with fumes only


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## bananas (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re:  (DK_GTI_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DK_GTI_racer* »_
Then Bananas dont count either, he is on different turbo















And guys dont mock me because i have accurate ebc with boost gauge







, so 21.8psi it is.
Anyways bananas what fuel pump is that you are running?
BTW dont race your car with fumes only









You speak the truth, my turbo is no longer a 2860 so it's not a direct comparison http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'll be posting 3 sigfig boost levels soon too, I just got my AVC-R installed








As for fuel pump, I'm running a Bosch 005 with adapter from 034, but that 3rd gear spoolup video was taken on the stock fuel pump.
Oh yeah:








, and I had just put in 1.0 gallons about 45 minutes earlier (was running it dry so I could fix my fuel level sender)


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## QuakeFreak121 (Mar 22, 2004)

That's one sick looking turbo... I might have to contact the individual posted above about one of these as an upgrade from my APR 3+ 28RS...








-Matt


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## bananas (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Last I spoke with Robert Young they were doing an HTA3071 b/c they didn't like the comp wheel/turb wheel combination on the 2871.
I heard the same thing, but _rumor_ says they're looking into a 2871 wheel. 
My supplier told me:
2871 is at least 2 months away. and in my opinion: be a terrible matchfor a stock bottom end car, or any car looking for ~ 500 hp crank or less.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (bananas)*

No HTA 2871 wheel coming out,at least not for another 6 months or more.


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## how much is 5 plus 2 (Mar 19, 2007)




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## Schnook (Mar 4, 2009)

*subscribed* Looking for a turbo kit that will produce in the low 300hp range...learning a lot from this thread opcorn:


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

Do want:laugh::thumbup:


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