# Post your verified spring rates here



## 1stVR6 (Mar 27, 2002)

*There are some great discussion and information in this thread now... Thank you to everyone who is contributing and please keep it coming!*
For quick reference, I think we should start a thread with information regarding springs rates. This will include OEM and aftermarket. I feel this information is very valid because there seem to be a couple of different approaches to VW tuning. For example:
Manufacturer: Shine Racing Services (Real Street)
Vehicle: MKIV Golf 4-cylinder models
Spring Type: Linear
FT Rate: 225
RR Rate: 180
Manufacturer: Shine Racing Services (Real Street)
Vehicle: MKIV GTI VR6 models
Spring Type: Linear
FT Rate: 250
RR Rate: 180
Manufacturer: Autotech (non-Club Sport)
Vehicle: MKIV GTI VR6 models
Spring Type: Progressive
FT Rate: 125-140
RR Rate: 135-165
Manufacturer: Eibach (Pro-Kit)
Vehicle: MKIV GTI VR6 models
Spring Type: Linear
FT Rate: 131
RR Rate: 131
These are the ones I know for SURE. Notice Shine uses softer springs in the back with a really stiff rear sway to help reduce understeer. However, Autotech is using higher spring rates in the rear instead of a stiffer sway to address the same problem. There are so many questions regarding sways and springs. I think this information will help everyone to compare and contrast their various combinations, and help people to achieve their most desired affect.
So if you have VERIFIED information regarding a certain company’s spring, please post it and provide the following information:
- Manufacturer/product line
- What vehicle (please be specific because some manufacturer will differ between say Jetta and Golf).
- Spring Type (Progressive, Linear, etc.)
- FT Rate
- RR Rate
Thanks…
_Modified by 1stVR6 at 9:49 PM 5-20-2003_


_Modified by 1stVR6 at 2:54 PM 1-30-2004_


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## captainoblivious (Aug 24, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (je.)*

I have the other 4 cyl Shine








Manufacturer: Shine Racing Services
Vehicle: MKIV Golf 4-cylinder models
Spring Type: Linear
FT Rate: 225
RR Rate: 200


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## je. (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

Excellent! Where did you get the Eibach rate?
Per an email from Neuspeed themselves:
Sport & Sofasport, Progressive, 4 cyl.
Front: 220lb/in
Rear: 160lb/in
I once tried (very poorly) to measure the stock 4 cyl rates, and they came out to about 90lb/in, but I am sure that is quite low (the barbecue I was using as a frame was bending a little)


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## dbottles (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

DMS - http://www.dmshocks.com
Mark II 4cyl. Gravel Rally 
Spring 2x Progresive 
Ft: 275-375-550
R: 180-280-400
Springs are 3" x 13"


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

Manufacturer: Shine Racing Services (Real Street)
Vehicle: B4 Passat Sedan/Wagon
Spring Type: Linear
FT Rate: 300 (OE spring diameter)
RR Rate: 250 (2.5" spring diameter)


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## TippsTheFoo (Oct 15, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (f1forkvr6)*

Wow, thanks for the info guys!
I didn't know Eibach rates were linear...unfortunately 131 is too low, IMO. Too bad since I like the drop height.
Does anyone have rates for the Neuspeed Sport for the VR6?
TIA! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
PS - Email sent to Neuspeed re: the VR6 rates just in case no one here has it (hopefully they'll answer).


[Modified by TippsTheFoo, 8:26 PM 11-26-2002]


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## TippsTheFoo (Oct 15, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (TippsTheFoo)*

From NEUSPEED re: the VR6: "The rates are the same. The difference is that the VR6 would take a taller spring to account for the additional weight in the front. For the rear, they are the same springs because the weight is very similar."


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## darrenewest (Oct 28, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (TippsTheFoo)*

MK IV VR6 Neuspeed Sport: 220(5) Front and 160 Rear
MK IV VR6 H+R Sport are 228 Front and 160 Rear
MK IV VR6 RPI Are 225 Front and 170 Rear 
MK IV VR6 Neuspeed Race 280 Front and 220 Rear
MK IV H+R Race are the same as Neuspeed Race. +/- 5 pounds.
MK IV Bilstein PSS9 Coilover 350 Front and 300 rear .... ouch ... (I have these)
I did a Little research and a whole lot of E-mailing. RPI Said there's were almost identical too Neuspeed's, although 10lb stiffer rear. I Emailed Neuspeed and they emailed the rates back too me the same day. H+R's I got from Denon, and are almost identical too Neuspeed's because they (H+R) use to Manufacture for them, but no longer. Neuspeed used their rates and found another manufacture .... If not totally correct let me know and I'll edit them, though I'm 98% Sure. Happy hunting, The Shine's are PERFECTLY matched to Bilstein damper's valving from what I can gather. I need a life. - Darren


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## silvervdubs99 (Oct 7, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (darrenewest)*

if it means anything(prolly not







)
i run this set-up on my rabbit and a few customers rabbits as well:
bilstein group N race shocks front and rear
front: 450# 6" 2.25"ID hyperco race spring
rear: 275-300# 9" hyperco race spring 2.25"ID
rear: shine or bildon rear swaybars.
no front bar.
rides a little harsh on the street but nothing too drastic, i've been in cars with supposed street coilovers in them that rode like crap!!!!
handles like nothing you can imagine in a front drive VW, look at the link below for any bilstein info and lowest pricing anywhere.

NOTE: spring rate should be calcualted based on ride height or more correctly, wheel travel based on motion ratio and corner weights, and different rates don't mean a thing if other things aren't taken into account.


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## pgde (Oct 21, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (silvervdubs99)*

It would be interesting to know what the "stock" spring rate is as well as the "stock" sport spring rate (not from Drivers Gear).
I haven't the faintest idea of how to get it.
P.


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## AD (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (captainoblivious)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Manufacturer: Shine Racing Services
Vehicle: MKIV Golf 4-cylinder models
Spring Type: Linear
FT Rate: 225
RR Rate: 200[HR][/HR]​How do you like this, how does it ride, and more importantly, how does it handle? What kind of shocks do you have? (feel free to take this to PM if you don't feel like everyone else needs to know.) 
I'm looking to get springs for the time being, and shocks when I have more cash. I admit that I desparately want to get rid of my wheel gap, but then, I do also want better-than-stock performance. 
I have 448/336 f/r on my other car, so I can't imagine I'll have too much to complain about, ...but still.


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## MikekiM (Aug 21, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

Manufacturer Vogtland GmbH
4-cyl, 1.8T
FT initial rate: 128lb/in
FT final rate: 325lb/in
FT working rate: 200-300lb/in
RR initial rate: 134lb/in
RR final rate: 258lb/in
RR working rate: 170-230lb/in


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## slogtiguy (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (MikekiM)*

Heh, you beat me to it Michael.


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## Nuno Miguel (Dec 13, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (MikekiM)*

hey, thats my dilema... i have a 4cil golf mk4 with H&R spotr springs and yellow konis, and the rear sits to high comparing to the front, 2 weeks a go i went to a trackday anda the car handling was a bit disappointing, the front always carries the car, wich results in massive rubing... 
Any way, do i get benifits on trading the back shocks to ones that drops a extra 10mm? in that way i would be equal to the front


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## TreyS (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (Nuno Miguel)*

Great post!!

Are the Neuspeed rates for the VR6 the same for the 1.8T?
Thanks.


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## TippsTheFoo (Oct 15, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (TreyS)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Great post!!

Are the Neuspeed rates for the VR6 the same for the 1.8T?
Thanks.







[HR][/HR]​Yes.


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## 1stVR6 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (TippsTheFoo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Great post!!

Are the Neuspeed rates for the VR6 the same for the 1.8T?
Thanks.








Yes.[HR][/HR]​Are you sure about this one? I know the H&R 1.8T and VR6 is the same, but I don't think the Neuspeed is.


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## TippsTheFoo (Oct 15, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

From NEUSPEED re: the VR6: "The rates are the same. The difference is that the VR6 would take a taller spring to account for the additional weight in the front. For the rear, they are the same springs because the weight is very similar."


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## slogtiguy (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (MikekiM)*

BTW, regarding the vogtland rates: Are the numbers for the other spring companies on this page the initial or final rate? I guess this would only be an issue for the progressively wound springs as opposed to the linear rate springs.


[Modified by slogtiguy, 11:39 PM 12-17-2002]


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## 1stVR6 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (slogtiguy)*

quote:[HR][/HR]BTW, regarding the vogtland rates: Are the numbers for the other spring companies on this page the initial or final rate? I guess this would only be an issue for the progressively wound springs as opposed to the linear rate springs.[HR][/HR]​When I started this post, I asked people to state if the spring is progressive to linear.


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## TippsTheFoo (Oct 15, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (MikekiM)*

Does anyone have the Vogtland spring rates for the VR6 application? TIA.


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## SRSVW (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

Rate for rear of stock 2003 Jette 1.8T 160#


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## TippsTheFoo (Oct 15, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (MikekiM)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Manufacturer Vogtland GmbH
4-cyl, 1.8T
FT initial rate: 128lb/in
FT final rate: 325lb/in
FT working rate: 200-300lb/in
RR initial rate: 134lb/in
RR final rate: 258lb/in
RR working rate: 170-230lb/in[HR][/HR]​How do these compare to, say, these:
*MK IV VR6 Neuspeed Sport: 220(5) Front and 160 Rear
MK IV VR6 H+R Sport are 228 Front and 160 Rear*


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## MikekiM (Aug 21, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (TippsTheFoo)*

The Vogtlands are stiffer in the front and rear.
Realize though, that those numbers for the Vogtlands are the 1.8T/2.0L numbers. The rates for the VR6 will be slightly higher in the front. Rear will be the same.


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## TippsTheFoo (Oct 15, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (MikekiM)*

So, somewhere in between the H&R Sport and H&R Race? Sorry for the questions, but since this product is relatively new with not nearly as much info/testing I need as much help as you can give. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MikekiM (Aug 21, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (TippsTheFoo)*

It's closer in stiffness to the H&R Race, but doesn't lower the car nearly as much. It's a sport lowering but nice and stiff for the extra clearance


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## bugged (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (TippsTheFoo)*

The person who wrote that the rates need to different due to height is absolutely correct. It also varies from live vs. dead sping coil #/length. And, most importantly from car model to car model. My MkIV has completely different travel and angles.
None of these rates are comparable. To top it off, the shock/strut has to be matched to the spring. Shock valving is responsible for almost ALL of the complaints heard about stiff springs.
I run 340/250 on 2.5" coilovers and they work great, for me.


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## TippsTheFoo (Oct 15, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (bugged)*

Mike, are most pairing these with Koni Yellow's or Bilstein Sports or ??? Sounds good so far. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Thanks.


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## MikekiM (Aug 21, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (TippsTheFoo)*

They both work, but I'd probably recommend the Koni's with them. Their added stiffness, and adjustability certainly make them a plus with the stiffer springs.


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## 1stVR6 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (MikekiM)*

Hey guys, would you consider taking the discussion to IM. I'm hoping to keep this post as quick reference for people who need springs rate info.
Thanks


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## bedes (Nov 1, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

anyone know the rates for Weitec XS coilovers?


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## vuu16v (Jul 18, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

Manufacturer: Shine Racing Services
Vehicle: MKII GTI 16v
Spring type: Linear
FT Rate: 500
RR Rate: 350
This is an auto-x only car. Basically driven to and from events and used for the occasional testosterone release. These rates ARE NOT street worthy unless you enjoy sore innards. She'll pull over 1.0 g though, so it good times.


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## MikekiM (Aug 21, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (vuu16v)*

Koni CO 1150-5048 (4-cyl MkIV)
174lb/in Front
214-236lb/in Rear (progressive)
Koni CO 1150-5048-1 (VR6 MkIV)
280lb/in Front
214-236lb/in Rear (progressive)


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## dpak4eva (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

so what are the STOCK spring rates for MKIV GTI???


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## GeeTeeEyeVR6 (Apr 22, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (bedes)*

quote:[HR][/HR]anyone know the rates for Weitec XS coilovers?
[HR][/HR]​what he said


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## TDI-NEVER-DIE (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (Nuno Miguel)*

quote:[HR][/HR]hey, thats my dilema... i have a 4cil golf mk4 with H&R spotr springs and yellow konis, and the rear sits to high comparing to the front, 2 weeks a go i went to a trackday anda the car handling was a bit disappointing, the front always carries the car, wich results in massive rubing... 
Any way, do i get benifits on trading the back shocks to ones that drops a extra 10mm? in that way i would be equal to the front







[HR][/HR]​this is the problem i will have most likely, i'm also running a TDI and the weight in the front is much higher and after getting an aftermarket setup i don't want this to happen, what suggestions do you guys have? Currently i'm running stock and i'm looking at a set of Eibacks springs with Bilsteins, i don't have the numbers but will find out and post back. I really want to distribute the weight about 50/50...
great post guys, great info.. thanks and bump


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## ryotko (Sep 26, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (vuu16v)*

What shocks are you using with this set up?
Thanks,
Bob
<<
Manufacturer: Shine Racing Services
Vehicle: MKII GTI 16v
Spring type: Linear
FT Rate: 500
RR Rate: 350
This is an auto-x only car. Basically driven to and from events and used for the occasional testosterone release. These rates ARE NOT street worthy unless you enjoy sore innards. She'll pull over 1.0 g though
>>


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## silvervdubs99 (Oct 7, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

my own suspension for a1 rabbits and jettas:
bilsteingroup N race struts and shocks
450#front and 300#rear hyperco 6" and 9" 2.25" springs(linear)
lower front suspension point brace made by myself
srs rear sway, no front swaybar
suspension set for 2" travel b4 hitting the bumpstop front and rear.
very very stiff set-up that is very neutral and is totally serious, but i drive it everyday on the street best handling vw i've ever driven, and i've had them all
corner weights are as followswith me in the car(160#):
frntright:604
frntleft:600
rearleft:302
rearright:300
total car weightwith full tank and me in it:1804
thats before i gutted it, want to get it below 1600# then i'll have to re-spring it.

we do custom race-set-ups, check the link below.


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## JoshmkII (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GeeTeeEyeVR6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]anyone know the rates for Weitec XS coilovers?

what he said[HR][/HR]​Ive tried for that info, the response is an across the board "weitec doesnt publish those numbers"


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## VR6 Mk3 (Sep 30, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (JoshmkII)*

anything for mk3?


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## vuu16v (Jul 18, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (JoshmkII)*

quote:[HR][/HR]anyone know the rates for Weitec XS coilovers?

what he said
Ive tried for that info, the response is an across the board "weitec doesnt publish those numbers"[HR][/HR]​Why bother w/ a company like that? Is it their "special sauce" or what? Tuners that assume to know what my car and I need piss me off.


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## vuu16v (Jul 18, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (ryotko)*

quote:[HR][/HR]What shocks are you using with this set up?
Thanks,
Bob
<<
Manufacturer: Shine Racing Services
Vehicle: MKII GTI 16v
Spring type: Linear
FT Rate: 500
RR Rate: 350
This is an auto-x only car. Basically driven to and from events and used for the occasional testosterone release. These rates ARE NOT street worthy unless you enjoy sore innards. She'll pull over 1.0 g though
>>[HR][/HR]​Sorry. I just now saw your question. I'm using Bilstein Group 1's (race valving only).


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## primogti (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (vuu16v)*

what about FK coilovers? Konigsports for a mkII?


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## Youngdubber (Feb 24, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (VR6 Mk3)*

quote:[HR][/HR]anything for mk3?[HR][/HR]​
Neuspeed Race for Mk3 2.0L are 400lbs front and 350 rear
I called neuspeed before I bought them!!!


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## 1stVR6 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (Youngdubber)*

quote:[HR][/HR]anything for mk3?

Neuspeed Race for Mk3 2.0L are 400lbs front and 350 rear
I called neuspeed before I bought them!!![HR][/HR]​Neuspeed springs are progressive? If so, they should have a range.


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## markertoo (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (silvervdubs99)*

quote:[HR][/HR]corner weights are as followswith me in the car(160#):
frntright:604
frntleft:600
rearleft:302
rearright:300
total car weightwith full tank and me in it:1804
thats before i gutted it, want to get it below 1600# then i'll have to re-spring it.

we do custom race-set-ups, check the link below.[HR][/HR]​Well, very mpressive. I have to say I have never seen a NON gutted car with such incredibly close cross weights. And, a light car, too. Must have taken some incredible weight and component swapping to get these weights like this.


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## Mencius01 (Aug 27, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (dpak4eva)*

quote:[HR][/HR]so what are the STOCK spring rates for MKIV GTI???[HR][/HR]​I'd be interested in knowing this for an MkIV jetta vr6 ...
Thanks!


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (Mencius01)*

quote:[HR][/HR]so what are the STOCK spring rates for MKIV GTI???[HR][/HR]​DITTO!!!


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## Youngdubber (Feb 24, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]anything for mk3?

Neuspeed Race for Mk3 2.0L are 400lbs front and 350 rear
I called neuspeed before I bought them!!!
Neuspeed springs are progressive? If so, they should have a range.[HR][/HR]​why is there always some smart ass that has to try and show everyone up?
E-mail neuspeed and ask them yourself...cause that is 100% exactly what they told me


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## VR6 Mk3 (Sep 30, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (TDI-NEVER-DIE)*

from [email protected] for the FK Hitec Kit for Mk3 VR6:
Spring rates are 400lb fronts, and the rears are 343 for the FK


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## 1stVR6 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (BryanH)*

quote:[HR][/HR]so what are the STOCK spring rates for MKIV GTI???
DITTO!!![HR][/HR]​For everyone that is looking for the STOCK spring rate...
Unless someone actually measure the springs, we won't likely know it for sure. These springs are considered proprietary to Volkswagen and only they hold the engineering specs to these springs.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

Stock rates are probably somewhere around 140/120 F/R for a stock 4-cyl Jetta Mk4 and 150/120 F/R for a GTI and VR6 Jetta, all linear spring with progressive design via recruitment of the OE bumpstops. The Shine kit is around 50-60% stiffer than stock, the H&R and Neuspeeds are around 30-40% stiffer than stock, so those numbers would make the most sense. I don't believe the Eibach springs are 131/131, though. Maybe the rears are 131, but the fronts not 131 or else you would get scrapage (the ProKits drop the car 1.3") unless the rates were significantly firmer than stock (at least 20%).


[Modified by catalytic, 1:57 AM 3-1-2003]


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (catalytic)*

Also, those rates provided by Neuspeed and H&R are misleading because they are progressive springs... what are the 220/160 lb/in readings from? Initial travel? Mean spring rate over working range? What is defined as the working range?


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## 1stVR6 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (catalytic)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Also, those rates provided by Neuspeed and H&R are misleading because they are progressive springs... what are the 220/160 lb/in readings from? Initial travel? Mean spring rate over working range? What is defined as the working range?[HR][/HR]​In my original post, I do believe I suggested how we can keep this information consistent and accurate. Please at least indicate if progressive or linear... Makes a big difference.


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

The eibach springs are not linear. From there web site:
Only simple linear springs have a spring rate. A sophisticated progressive Eibach Pro-Kit spring has a load/deflection characteristic. The special design parameters are only accessable through Eibach Desk-Tech Database to Eibach’s exclusive partners.
131 may be the inital rate....


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## 1stVR6 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (.je)*

Left <Eibach Pro-Kit Springs> Center <H&R Sport> Right <OE Sport>


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## 1stVR6 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (catalytic)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Maybe the rears are 131, but the fronts not 131 or else you would get scrapage (the ProKits drop the car 1.3") unless the rates were significantly firmer than stock (at least 20%).[HR][/HR]​I verified with Eibach on two separate occasions regarding the spring rate… It is 131lbs. What makes the car not bottom out is the fact that it is linear rate. I know when I had the H&R sports on the car, it was lower although the springs are technical stiffer. Also, the bump stop acts as a secondary spring to prevent the suspension from bottoming out. I have an Autotech lower tie-bar and I haven’t had any clearance problems with the Pro-System.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (BryanH)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The eibach springs are not linear. From there web site:
Only simple linear springs have a spring rate. A sophisticated progressive Eibach Pro-Kit spring has a load/deflection characteristic. The special design parameters are only accessable through Eibach Desk-Tech Database to Eibach’s exclusive partners.
131 may be the inital rate....[HR][/HR]​This has been discussed numerous times before. Eibach springs for the Mk4 are linear, not progressive. If you look at the pic, you will see. H&R springs seem almost linear too (or not very progressive).


[Modified by catalytic, 11:49 PM 3-2-2003]


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I verified with Eibach on two separate occasions regarding the spring rate… It is 131lbs. What makes the car not bottom out is the fact that it is linear rate.[HR][/HR]​Explain that last part... it's not making sense to me. With the ProSystem, I am pretty sure that it is the highly progressive ProDampers that prevent bottoming out, not the ProKit springs. The ProKit springs are pretty weak for that amount of drop. If 131 lb/in in front is correct, that is much much softer than any other aftermarket lowering spring. Everyone else is into the 200's. 
quote:[HR][/HR]Also, the bump stop acts as a secondary spring to prevent the suspension from bottoming out. I have an Autotech lower tie-bar and I haven’t had any clearance problems with the Pro-System.[HR][/HR]​The bump stop is designed as a secondary spring for the factory suspension. This is not the way aftermarket suspensions are supposed to be designed, according to Eibach themselves. They stated that the VW/Eibach (German ProKits) are designed to work in conjunction with the factory bumpstops as TUV certification mandates. US ProKits, however, are not subject to the same restrictions, so Eibach can design them to be used independently of the factory bumpstops (and would therefore be firmer).
BTW, I have the same setup as yourself (Autotech lower tie and ProSystem). While 98% of the time I do not have clearance problems, I have either bottomed out or nailed the lower tie bar on the ground *hard* a couple of times with driveways, potholes, etc.


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (catalytic)*

Well, if the web site is incorect there is absolutely no way I can believe it is a 131 linear spring....that would be softer than stock!


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## 1stVR6 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (BryanH)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Well, if the web site is incorect there is absolutely no way I can believe it is a 131 linear spring....that would be softer than stock![HR][/HR]​So do you know what the stock spring rates are? There has been a few people wanting to find out.


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

I am one of thise people that want to find out but I can't imagine it would be any less than the 140 range...much less than that and the car would ride like the QE2.


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## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (BryanH)*

Just curious why everyone has stiffer in the front then the rear? To nuetralize the car you can do 10% stiffer (approx) in the back, and with a proper adjusted rear sway, the car will/should have more nuetral characteristics then say if you have 400front/250rear. Having the front that much stiffer just promotes more understeer. 
Anyone else have experience with slightly higher rates in the rear? The setup I am going for on my daily driver will be approx 275front, 300rear, linear 8 inch free length, (diamters to be determined, prob 2.5).


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

you also need to account for the increased weight of the engine and transmission in the front. as for running stiffer springs in the rear, a lot of the audi guys, namely the A4 and S4 run stiffer springs in the back. they come designed that way in the aftermarket spring market, at least quite a few do.


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## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (rex_racer)*

Well the guys who I know race and track thier mk3's and even mk2's with 55/45-60/40 weight ratios almost all run slightly stiffer in the rear to nuetralize the car. The fact that you have more weight in the front is a reason why you would need a proper front spring rate first, then the rear gets chosen according to that, as with conditions and situation. 275 is more then enough to support the front on a daily driver, and with 300 rear, the only problems might be ride quality on the highway. But i got a guy whos doing up asetup of 500f/550r with revalve konis on the street (from truechoice), so hopefully i'll get some good data from him, and choose my setup accordingly. I think thats the way I am going to go though, 10% stiffer in rear....and with the peloquin going in finally, it'll be solid http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

Are you planning on running an RSB, or just controlling the weight transfer with springs?


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## vuu16v (Jul 18, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

quote:[HR][/HR]although the peloquin will help my inside wheel spin in those cases. [HR][/HR]​Won't a peloquin help stop wheelspin? And as far as your spring rates go, I've spoken with Stu from BSI and Dick and Eli from Shine Racing and they both agree the A2s and A3s need more of a 1:1 ratio as far as weight to spring rate goes. This of course nullifies the stiffer spring in the rear theory on a FWD, although there are a very few guys (3-4) that run MUCH stiffer rears to basically "force" the rear end down in corners. They say a Quaife or Peloquin is an absolute must because this increases understeer. They've also increased the castor. They're using GC camber plates turned sideways as castor plates. They're now campaigning an EP Rabbit w/ homemade double-wishbone suspension and doing quite well so they do know their stuff.


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## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (vuu16v)*

Haha sorry, that was a play on words, i said "help wheel spin" but it mant help control wheel spin... hence minimizes excessive wheel spin, Sorry about the confusion








Yea I dont know why Shine has 300f/200r as thier street though, I have spoken with dick several times, I guess its just thier street setup.
I am pretty confident thats the way I am going with as far as spring rates, with slightly higher rates(10%) in the rear. However since this is just a daily driver street car, I think 300 is at the limit for me, as i dont want to get sick from all the bumps








I wish we had a setup lie hondas with the independent suspension in the rear, it would really help our rear stance out, and be good for those autox's as well. 
And its a given that a Peloquin/quaife is required in ANY scenario... even stock!
And if you have oversteer thats induced easily, then when you recover you are going to need your wheels to pull you straight, hence the requirement for an ls/torsen diff. That way you can induce oversteer if needed and pull out of the slide very easily. But remember 99% of the time, the fastest way through a turn is with full traction..not powersliding








Also its Caster not Castor... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
yea on the club level Shine does quite well in most of those Vw classes, they got it down as far as those lightweight rabbit abd mk2 chassis's go. 
I dont understand that reasoning though, by increasing the front spring rate you are increasing understeer. Same deal goes with a larger sway bar... thats what sway bars do opposed to increasing spring rate. So using a stock sway bar, increasing your spring rate will have the same affect for that case. However the cars I have seen, as far as mk3's go, are going slightly stiffer in the rear. For more info, contact meprivately and we'll discuss sources for the info. But this is ALL on the track remember,on the street its just the same physics but to a less degree. So comfort comes in to play a roll. With Shines 300/200 I think there might be a bit too much understeer...I'd rather be fishtailing a fwd then pushing through the corner uncontrolably without being ablt to recover as easily then with oversteer.


[Modified by GTIVR6RACER4EVER, 7:03 PM 3-3-2003]


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## SRSVW (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (vuu16v)*

A few simple corrections! We never increase caster as that is a huge step backwards on a FWD car! There are no competitive cars running higher rear spring rates! This is a sign of not enough rear bar for instance a street 28mm bar.
This is nowhere near enough stiffness.Racing and street use are different and you should never try to mix them. The results will be poor and maybe dangerous!
Dick Shine


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## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (SRSVW)*

I agree entirely... Track setups should stay on the track. However do you feel that setup (28mm hollow rear, stock front, 275 linear front at proper ride height, and 300linear rear) would be a problem? I'll call you if you want. Thanks


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## vuu16v (Jul 18, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Also its Caster not Castor... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
yea on the club level Shine does quite well in most of those Vw classes, they got it down as far as those lightweight rabbit abd mk2 chassis's go. 
I dont understand that reasoning though, by increasing the front spring rate you are increasing understeer. Same deal goes with a larger sway bar... thats what sway bars do opposed to increasing spring rate. So using a stock sway bar, increasing your spring rate will have the same affect for that case. However the cars I have seen, as far as mk3's go, are going slightly stiffer in the rear. For more info, contact meprivately and we'll discuss sources for the info. But this is ALL on the track remember,on the street its just the same physics but to a less degree. So comfort comes in to play a roll. With Shines 300/200 I think there might be a bit too much understeer...I'd rather be fishtailing a fwd then pushing through the corner uncontrolably without being ablt to recover as easily then with oversteer.
[HR][/HR]​Castor.







Was thinking oil.







My setup (for auto-x, it only sees about 2K on the street/year) is 500/350 springs w/ Shine's rear sway. Your right about too much spring causing understeer. That's why the rears are pumped up to 350lbs and when you add the rear bar (and most don't use a front sway since it just = understeer, mine's disconnected), you get super fun oversteer anytime you want it. A lot of guys told me to be careful on the highway w/ the big rear bar, but if you have some common sense and even a basic understanding of what a car actually does throughout a corner w/ different inputs, you're good to go.


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## vuu16v (Jul 18, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (SRSVW)*

quote:[HR][/HR]A few simple corrections! We never increase caster as that is a huge step backwards on a FWD car! Dick Shine







[HR][/HR]​Sorry, I should have stated it wasn't you guys (Shine) doing this, but they are out there.








I don't understand it and have been explained this "different" setup roughly ten times.


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## vuu16v (Jul 18, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

Check your IM ban list. I'm on it and can't IM you.


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## vuu16v (Jul 18, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I dont have anyone on my ban list









[Modified by GTIVR6RACER4EVER, 7:24 PM 3-3-2003][HR][/HR]​I know. It's still screwed.







I'm getting your's.


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## 1stVR6 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

HEY GUYS!
I really wanted to keep this thread as a quick reference tool for people seeking spring rates. Any chance you guys can continue the discussion regarding a particular setup on IM or email.


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## Surf Green (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

ThreadFart


[Modified by Surf Green, 9:37 PM 3-8-2003]


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## Surf Green (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

Since SRS is in this thread, 
What are Shine Lite spring rates for a Mk4 TDI Wagon?
I want it a little stiffer, and linear, and not dropped alot.


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## dpak4eva (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (darrenewest)*

quote:[HR][/HR]MK IV VR6 Neuspeed Sport: 220(5) Front and 160 Rear
MK IV VR6 H+R Sport are 228 Front and 160 Rear
MK IV VR6 RPI Are 225 Front and 170 Rear 
MK IV VR6 Neuspeed Race 280 Front and 220 Rear
MK IV H+R Race are the same as Neuspeed Race. +/- 5 pounds.
MK IV Bilstein PSS9 Coilover 350 Front and 300 rear .... ouch ... (I have these)
I did a Little research and a whole lot of E-mailing. RPI Said there's were almost identical too Neuspeed's, although 10lb stiffer rear. I Emailed Neuspeed and they emailed the rates back too me the same day. H+R's I got from Denon, and are almost identical too Neuspeed's because they (H+R) use to Manufacture for them, but no longer. Neuspeed used their rates and found another manufacture .... If not totally correct let me know and I'll edit them, though I'm 98% Sure. Happy hunting, The Shine's are PERFECTLY matched to Bilstein damper's valving from what I can gather. I need a life. - Darren[HR][/HR]​hey just for your information, the H&R Race spring rates are 230# front and 175# rear. just to correct you. im sure of it.


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## Stephane Trahan (Jun 16, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (dpak4eva)*

All professionnaly race fwd cars in NA usually run a front to rear factor of 2-3 to 2-5 rate factor...my cars use 800f and 1200r...most acuras (realtime and all) range from 750f-1100r to 1000f to 3000r. But like Dick said you can't compare those set up to a cross-over car(street/track) theres too much involved more then spring rate. Caster will usually works great (up to a point and depending on suspension geometry) on any light nose car (not a VR6) lol



[Modified by Stephane Trahan, 7:07 AM 4-8-2003]


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## GTIVR6RACER4EVER (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (Stephane Trahan)*

Yea I think for the street, a "higher end" damper setup could run the same all around, but probably a tad heavier in the front. I plan to go 325f/250r linear. I am waiting to hear from a friend at truechoice after he sets his custom setup together and see what it feels like, but he's going pretty hardcore for the street, as its also an autox car. I've got some time though, so i'll see. And you can always swap springs out


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## vultron (Oct 7, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)*

does anyone have the rates for:
a3 vr6 versions
H&R OE's 
Neuspeed SofSports


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (darrenewest)*

quote:[HR][/HR]MK IV VR6 Neuspeed Sport: 220(5) Front and 160 Rear
MK IV VR6 H+R Sport are 228 Front and 160 Rear
MK IV VR6 RPI Are 225 Front and 170 Rear 
MK IV VR6 Neuspeed Race 280 Front and 220 Rear
MK IV H+R Race are the same as Neuspeed Race. +/- 5 pounds.
MK IV Bilstein PSS9 Coilover 350 Front and 300 rear .... ouch ... (I have these)
[HR][/HR]​Are H&Rs Progressive or Linear, if Progressive do we know the range of them? What about Nuespeed?


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## pyce (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (dpak4eva)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dpak4eva* »_<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>MK IV VR6 Neuspeed Sport: 220(5) Front and 160 Rear
MK IV VR6 H+R Sport are 228 Front and 160 Rear
MK IV VR6 RPI Are 225 Front and 170 Rear 
MK IV VR6 Neuspeed Race 280 Front and 220 Rear
MK IV H+R Race are the same as Neuspeed Race. +/- 5 pounds.
MK IV Bilstein PSS9 Coilover 350 Front and 300 rear .... ouch ... (I have these)
I did a Little research and a whole lot of E-mailing. RPI Said there's were almost identical too Neuspeed's, although 10lb stiffer rear. I Emailed Neuspeed and they emailed the rates back too me the same day. H+R's I got from Denon, and are almost identical too Neuspeed's because they (H+R) use to Manufacture for them, but no longer. Neuspeed used their rates and found another manufacture .... If not totally correct let me know and I'll edit them, though I'm 98% Sure. Happy hunting, The Shine's are PERFECTLY matched to Bilstein damper's valving from what I can gather. I need a life. - Darren<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
hey just for your information, the H&R Race spring rates are 230# front and 175# rear. just to correct you. im sure of it. 

Let's say one of you two is right ....... then I read in a magazine from H&R (!) that the Race springs are 50% stiffer than the Sport springs....... So, which data is correct? Also ...
"MK IV VR6 H+R Sport are 228 Front and 160 Rear"
I had those and then replaced them with Shine F225 and R180. According the the data posted, the Front H&R Sport and the Shine are 3 lb different only! Well, I will completely disagree, because I had both springs in my hands for few minutes and the Shine front (225) is significantly stiffer than the suppoused 228 Frong H&R Sport....... Something somewhere is wrong.


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (pyce)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pyce* »_
Let's say one of you two is right ....... then I read in a magazine from H&R (!) that the Race springs are 50% stiffer than the Sport springs....... So, which data is correct? Also ...
"MK IV VR6 H+R Sport are 228 Front and 160 Rear"
I had those and then replaced them with Shine F225 and R180. According the the data posted, the Front H&R Sport and the Shine are 3 lb different only! Well, I will completely disagree, because I had both springs in my hands for few minutes and the Shine front (225) is significantly stiffer than the suppoused 228 Frong H&R Sport....... Something somewhere is wrong.

Shine's linear, so feels much stiffer than progressive H&R on initial load.


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## pyce (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (alexb75)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alexb75* »_
Shine's linear, so feels much stiffer than progressive H&R on initial load.

Not enough ....... the coil diameter is visibly thicker on Shine. Looks almost like 20% thicker, mabe even more ........ And I had both on my car too, for quiet some time. Even after the initial load, H&R Sport is not any near the Shine spring. I really doubt the numbers of H&R ....... But please, do not get it personaly. I am just expressing thoughts


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (pyce)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pyce* »_
Not enough ....... the coil diameter is visibly thicker on Shine. Looks almost like 20% thicker, mabe even more ........ And I had both on my car too, for quiet some time. Even after the initial load, H&R Sport is not any near the Shine spring. I really doubt the numbers of H&R ....... But please, do not get it personaly. I am just expressing thoughts









H&R is a reputable company, I doubt Shine numbers more than H&Rs, how many springs do they sell compared to H&R?! Also, people who have tried Nuespeed (with same rating) say they are almost indentical to H&R. Maybe Shine numbers must be higher then!


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## pyce (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (alexb75)*

Alex, I agree, H&R has reputation, BUT what they did with the Sport springs is providing a product that gives to the client a moderate compromise between the "lower-loocks-better" and some handling improvement over stock...... Shine provided springs that optimise handling while not being in concern about how the car will look like after taking it to the optimal ride (for handling!) height front and rear. Two completely different stories and this is not just because I read this somewhere - it is because I had (have) them both on the same car, one after the other. and most important, I kept even the same shocks, so the comparision is quiet accurate between the two sets....... Anyway, I really do not feel like pushing people, not anymore







Matter of fact is, Shine Real Steet springs outhandles H&R Sport springs big time! That said, everyone make their own choises as everyone has different ideas of what his/her car is used for. People make their car realyl low and they say it look better .... Well, no matter how low you go, it will never look better than a Bimmer (again, only me thinks this way







) ....... but you still have a chance to make it handle like a Bimmer, with the right suspension setup which includes the correct ride height to begin with......
peace...... ciao


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (pyce)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pyce* »_Alex, I agree, H&R has reputation, BUT what they did with the Sport springs is providing a product that gives to the client a moderate compromise between the "lower-loocks-better" and some handling improvement over stock...... Shine provided springs that optimise handling while not being in concern about how the car will look like after taking it to the optimal ride (for handling!) height front and rear. Two completely different stories and this is not just because I read this somewhere - it is because I had (have) them both on the same car, one after the other. and most important, I kept even the same shocks, so the comparision is quiet accurate between the two sets....... Anyway, I really do not feel like pushing people, not anymore







Matter of fact is, Shine Real Steet springs outhandles H&R Sport springs big time! That said, everyone make their own choises as everyone has different ideas of what his/her car is used for. People make their car realyl low and they say it look better .... Well, no matter how low you go, it will never look better than a Bimmer (again, only me thinks this way







) ....... but you still have a chance to make it handle like a Bimmer, with the right suspension setup which includes the correct ride height to begin with......
peace...... ciao

That is a totally different argument which people have been doing in other threads and have been beating it to death! We were talking about spring rates and if H&R numbers are stated too high, or Shine's stated too low! 
However, me personally for street use, would like to have both moderate drops (1"-1.5") and better handling than stock. I'd like to look at my car and like it. Shine's maybe better for track use and pure handling, but I have been in a couple and they just ride too harsh for street use (mostly because of linear springs), look uneven (fronts higher than rear-looks awful), and have oversteer which could make it a little dangerous if you're not careful. I personally wouldn't be in one for street use, unless I wanna hit the tracks every weekend. I also agree H&R is a compromise there, but the gain compared to stock is MUCH more than gain from an H&R to Shine IMHO.
Cheers


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## pyce (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (alexb75)*

ok







......
Now, MODERATOR, please feel free to delete the last few posts we made as it is really waste of space and completely off topic...... Even if the effort was to understand why are the numbers so close, but the real life thw two springs feel completely different....... yeah, it is because H&R are not linear.... but then, they should state two numbers, the initial and the final..... but anyway, go wild with the eraser


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (pyce)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pyce* »_ok







......
Now, MODERATOR, please feel free to delete the last few posts we made as it is really waste of space and completely off topic...... Even if the effort was to understand why are the numbers so close, but the real life thw two springs feel completely different....... yeah, it is because H&R are not linear.... but then, they should state two numbers, the initial and the final..... but anyway, go wild with the eraser









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## melman8r (Mar 19, 2002)

'03 GTI VR6 Shine: 250# front, 190# rear
My '03 Stock spring rates as tested by Dick Shine 133# front and 148# in the rear.


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## mriccob (Jul 12, 2001)

*Re: (melman8r)*

There was a comment made as to the application of these springs in combination with differeing shocks. Therefore, isn't there also a question of the rates that the shocks/struts bring to this equation (i.e. Koni Adjustables vs Bilstien Sport). What are the rates of these shocks/struts. From what I understand the Bilstien Sports are much stiffer than the Koni's when set moderately. Can anyone provide the specs on these products as well?


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## SRSVW (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: (mriccob)*

AlexB For the record My kit isnt higher in the front! It is perfectly level!!
The front wheel well is larger! I have measured hundreds of my kits.They are level.
This kit isnt a race kit and most people report slightly decreased ride or some even say it is better than stock. Few say it is too stiff.It is however sensitive to tire design and pressure.It also comes with a 90 day return guarantee in case anyone doesnt like it! Who else has this? We also offer engineering expertise and develop our kits in the USA for US market cars.We actually measure our springs on a spring rate checker to make sure they are what the manufacturer says they are.
The rates generally check to 2-3% of calculated rate. The H&R are made in Germany for German market cars and sold in this country without any engineers present at all.I cant even get a straight answer from them about spring rates.
I have never seen a spring from them measure even close to their claims,and a Porsche independent shop measured them and found the same thing.You can believe H&R if you wish,but I can tell you that I have been building and developing
sucessful VW suspension parts far longer than H&R (and most other companies)
have been in existence! A little skepticism is healthy,but it is good to research and get the facts right. If you can get rates from H&R I would like to know.I can only get the clueless sales people. They try but they arent engineers,just salesmen.
If a company cant tell you the most basic facts,Why would anyone buy their product?It amazes how people are susceptable to slick advertizing.
Dick Shine


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (SRSVW)*

First of all, I never bashed your setup and it's a real handling setup. Just stating facts and they're all true, don't take things personally. 
Front height? Well, at least it looks like it's higher, look at http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=812165 , the guy wants to cut the front springs to make it even!
I beleive we have German cars and German springs should be a good fit for it. Not too sure about your history compared to H&R, all I know is that they supply to DTM, V8STAR race, Skoda WRC, Ford Rallye Germany WRC, Porsche Motorsport, Volkswagen Beetle Cup and Volkswagen Lupo Cup cars. So, I'd say they are reputable. 
Your comment about not having engineers here in US is correct, but neither does Bilstein or Koni, so you wouldn't buy them because of that








The only company who advertises here is you. I have never seen any H&R rep or sales person to come over here to defend themselves or advertise. I actually find it disturbing that you don't let people decide on what's a good setup and let your product speak for itself, instead of feeling insecure about every little comment here or there, even when it's not bashing or anything. I acutally was thinking of probably getting a Shine and this really turns me off your product. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## melman8r (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: (alexb75)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alexb75* »_First of all, I never bashed your setup and it's a real handling setup. Just stating facts and they're all true, don't take things personally.
The only company who advertises here is you. I have never seen any H&R rep or sales person to come over here to defend themselves or advertise. I actually find it disturbing that you don't let people decide on what's a good setup and let your product speak for itself, instead of feeling insecure about every little comment here or there, even when it's not bashing or anything. I acutally was thinking of probably getting a Shine and this really turns me off your product. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


Two things I can't seem to follow: 
1. Show me an ad that Dick Shine has posted here. 
2. Did Dick accuse you of bashing his setup? No.
Dick merely states the facts, it's people like yourself that are misinformed. He doesn't have to defend himself, his product speaks for itself. But, I would take it personally if I were him because alot of time and effort has gone into his setup. I recently had a Shine Real Street Kit installed at his shop and they are at the top of their game. He delivers what he promises with a guarantee you just can't beat. You won't find a more honest and knowledge group on this forum. If Shine Racing wanted to make a $, Dick would be selling short shifters and CAIs, but he knows better. There are those who talk Shine, then there's others like myself that DRIVE Shine. 


_Modified by melman8r at 10:40 AM 5-18-2003_


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: (alexb75)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alexb75* »_First of all, I never bashed your setup and it's a real handling setup. Just stating facts and they're all true ... 

Well, when you stated:

_Quote, originally posted by *alexb75* »_Shine's maybe better for track use and pure handling, but I have been in a couple and they just ride too harsh for street use (mostly because of linear springs), look uneven (fronts higher than rear-looks awful), and have oversteer which could make it a little dangerous if you're not careful.

There were a couple of statements that I really can't consider truths:
Too harsh because of linear springs? Linear springs by themselves do not cause ride quality to be harsh. Dangerous over-steer? In reality it's not hard too get most FWD cars to swing the tail out if you really want to - even on stock suspensions. As for not bashing, .... "looks awful"







... I don't think anyone would take this as a complement, although I don't think you were ever accused of bashing Dick's street solution.
In the end, if you'll be happiest with another solution - go for it. No one can tell you what is best for you ... folks can only offer opinions about what they believe would be best for your intended purpose. All Dick's post offered, if you go back and re-read it, are some first hand observations and specific facts about different suspension components. Like you, he was "Just stating facts".


_Modified by f1forkvr6 at 9:30 AM 5-18-2003_


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## SRSVW (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: (f1forkvr6)*

Alex I was meerly trying o add facts. I am sorry if you took it personal! It certainly wasnt meant that way.I have followed many of your postings and I think you are level headed and good intentioned. I Have talked to Bilstein engineers plenty.
You can get good Koni info from Truechoice also. Unless I was willing to do a lot of testing I dont buy from companies that dont have engineers to answer questions and help with development.Keep this thread going and I do apoligyze If it sounded negative. BTW I dont bash other products.I try to state just proveable facts and the pros and cons. I would welcome some input from the other vendors,but they dont post.I dont just sell my product .I support and offer advise to all who call, Not just the buyers.In a 4 man shop we have 2 engineers on staff.We are trying really hard to spread technical information so everyone can make the most informed choice.I think everyone here is working to do the same thing.I hope this helps.
BTW When we measure stock springs or coilovers they always come to within 5% of stated value.You can believe H&R if you wish,Their numbers dont add up however. I have a spreadsheet to display force\displacement curve for progressive springs and They still arent close. I am not saying they have an inferior product.Their reputation speaks for itself! I am saying you cant count on technical support.








Dick Shine


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (SRSVW)*

Fair enough! I actually learned a lot from you Dick right here on Vortex, I don't claim to be an expert in anything, but I do a lot of research and take all comments with a grain of salt. 

_Quote, originally posted by *SRSVW* »_I am not saying they have an inferior product.Their reputation speaks for itself! I am saying you cant count on technical support.
Dick Shine

That's a fair comment, earlier you came across differently, it sounded like you're putting down H&R. I will personally try to get some answers on spring rates even if I have to call Germany








Basically, from all the comments here, and experiencing and driving different setups, I've recognized your setup to be one of the well-engineered ones that some thought has gone into it. However, there are other setups which do fine too. It seems that some people here claim Shine or nothing, and I just disagree on that point. Some good setups from other people fit a purpose better than Shine and some Shine setups are WAY better than other setups for another driver. I just don't beleive a perfect setup for everyone and every application is out there.
Well, it's a beatiful weekend let us all grab a







and enjoy our well engineered German cars with WHATEVER setup we have http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .


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## dontouch (Mar 13, 2001)

*Re: (alexb75)*

Tomorrow i am purchasing a setup from Ground Control.. 
The numbers are 500 front 
400 rear.. 
With koni's 
Yeah they are the coilover style.. 
I will let you all know how well this works.. 
BTW i only drive the car on the weekends and autocross / track.. 
Should be sweet..


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## SRSVW (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: (dontouch)*

Alex I couldnt have said it better! There is no one right choice for everyone.
Keep up the postings and I really am interested in info if you get to H&R.














Dick Shine


----------



## 2002gtibluvr6 (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: (SRSVW)*

so have you tested neuspeed springs? im interested in neuspeed springs, and i was wondering if their spring rates are correct or not. 
im wanting a 1.5 in drop, maybe a little more but no more then 2 inches. i want a good handling car, at least better then stock, i dont need a car that can turn on a dime at 100mph, i just want a car that is fun as heck to drive in the mountains around here. i want a good feel but not a bouncy ride, harsher then stock is ok, but i dont need a trampoline ya know what im sayin? so dick what would you recommend for that? from all the setups of yours i usually dont see any lowering, i have seen some where the front end LOOKS higher *i dont know if it actually is or not* but i do want some lowering cause to me wheel gap is ugly as hell. so if you could make a setup that would fit my needs i dont see why i would buy anything but a Shine setup. but do you have any other thoughts about a setup from a different company.
also how much would you charge to lower a car 1.5 inches and make it handle sweet? without being too harsh? im 18 so i dont have a ton of cash im looking for somewhere around 600-750ish? think you could do something for me?


----------



## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: (2002gtibluvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2002gtibluvr6* »_im wanting a 1.5 in drop, maybe a little more but no more then 2 inches .... i want a good handling car, at least better then stock .... 

Not really possible with at 2" drop (using factory suspension mounting points) ... unless you want to have spring rates that you'd hate to live with on a daily basis.
Age old choice ... look at your car, or drive it.


----------



## 1stVR6 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (f1forkvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *f1forkvr6* »_
Not really possible with at 2" drop (using factory suspension mounting points) ... unless you want to have spring rates that you'd hate to live with on a daily basis.
Age old choice ... look at your car, or drive it.

I second this... 2" drop would require springs that will knock your teeth out... not to mention of cost for racing dampers to control the high rate springs.


----------



## slogtiguy (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (1stVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1stVR6* »_
I second this... 2" drop would require springs that will knock your teeth out... not to mention of cost for racing dampers to control the high rate springs.

Man, I really wish the shine v. All suspension test had worked out so that you guys could put some actual numbers behind your mindless rehashing of hearsay. You guys are claiming some stupid ****. I have almost a 2 inch drop and my car handles rediculously better than stock. Yes, I do autocross and have experienced both stock and my current setup at the limit. And no, the ride is not teeth-jarringly stiff. Unless off-the-shelf koni's are considered "race dampers"... Whatever happened to this being an informative spring rate post???


----------



## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: (slogtiguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slogtiguy* »_Unless off-the-shelf koni's are considered "race dampers"... Whatever happened to this being an informative spring rate post???

Yup - you're right ... we've strayed way off topic. What spring rates are you using to handle "ridiculously better than stock" with a 2" drop? Where do you have your Koni's set f/r?


----------



## slogtiguy (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (f1forkvr6)*

The konis are set at 3/5 front and 2/5 rear, and the springs are the vogtland sport springs which can be found earlier in this post. They're 200-300lb./in. front and 170-230lb./in. rear. Assisting them are polyu. LCA bushings and a lower front tie bar.


----------



## sccaITA16V (Nov 5, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (Stephane Trahan)*

Ha Ha, I finally won something!! I got you all beat. Shine racing only coilovers with 600 front and 400 rear. And I shamelessly endorse Mr. Shines products, professionalism and knowledge of our endearing VW cars.

_Quote, originally posted by *Stephane Trahan* »_All professionnaly race fwd cars in NA usually run a front to rear factor of 2-3 to 2-5 rate factor...my cars use 800f and 1200r...most acuras (realtime and all) range from 750f-1100r to 1000f to 3000r. 
[Modified by Stephane Trahan, 7:07 AM 4-8-2003]
 Also wanted to clarify why this set-up won't work on a VW. Hondas and Acuras have the spring/coil over located only half-way down the length of the rear control arm reducing its "leverage" acting on the rear suspension, therefore it needs almost TWICE the rear spring rate as a VW to achieve about the same effective rate. Make sense to you?
have fun and play safe


----------



## Phobia16V (Aug 12, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

Shine Racing _RealStreet_
1988 Jetta GLI 16V
Linear
200lbs fr
120lbs rr
+Bilstein Sports = perfect for "agressive" street driving. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## TarmacSpecial (Mar 6, 2003)

*Re: (slogtiguy)*

So, any A1 spring rates?
Here's my setup....
I'm running Ground Control/Eibach at 300F, and 200R, with 22mmF and 28mmR solid sway bars. Bilstein sport dampers (came with the car). The car is setup arms level with a very slight droop in the back. I also "sag balanced" the suspension by taking ride height measurements before and while I was in the car, and then adjusting the perches so that it would sit equally L/R when I was in it. It's crude but better than nothing.
I am pretty happy with it so far.


----------



## stocky1.8s (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (TarmacSpecial)*

I was a SRSVW this week
A great atmosphere to hang out and ask alot of questions:
The front Eibach's pros for 2001 B5 were 290 as measured by Dick
about 27% stiffer than the stock front springs
What a difference








The interesting thing is the previous b5 guy who had a suspension upgrade at Shine 
had much stiffer stock springs to start with. (i think i have this right)
but his Eibach's were also 290
good QC from Eibach IMHO
I can't remember the rear numbers....
I Also got the Shine Bar -The passat does almost no"plowing" in the turns


----------



## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (stocky1.8s)*

KW published front coil over spring rates
Available rates, first number = rate in N/mm; second number =spring length in mm.
50-170 =285 lb/inch
60-170 =342 lb/inch
70-170 =400 lb/inch these are the ones mine came with for 4cyl mk4 G/J
80-170 =457 lb/inch
90-170 =514 lb inch
100-170 =571 lb/inch
110-170 =628 lb/inch
120-170 =685 lb/inch
What spring number (xx-170)do the ones for the 6cyl mk4 have ?


----------



## woodyVR6 (May 4, 2003)

okay..it is becoming increasingly difficult to decipher posted spring rates in the quagmire of aimless chatting.....so can somebody please delineate these spring rates for me: * Neuspeed race springs for mk3 VR6 and the Ground Control basic sleeve-over kit for mk3 VR6?* 
Thank you!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


_Modified by woodyVR6 at 6:58 PM 6-1-2003_


----------



## melman8r (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: (woodyVR6)*

alexb,
Where's the H&R rates??


----------



## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

*Re:*

bringing it back from archives...


----------



## hndaklr (Dec 1, 2001)

*Re: Re: (genxguy)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (melman8r)*


_Quote, originally posted by *melman8r* »_alexb,
Where's the H&R rates??

Well, I was away for a month (Europe) and didn't visit Vortex. I've been after getting the H&R rates, but was not successfull so far. I've been told that they're not going to publish their rates so other companies won't copy their rates. I've called and followed at every level. The closest thing I could get was that Nuespeed used to have H&R as supplier and their springs are close to what they had before with H&R. H&R supposed to be a little softer than Nuespeed, so Nuespeed rates give or take a few.


----------



## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

*Re: (alexb75)*

emailed APR for rates on their RollControl springs.
35% stiffer than stock 337 springs, they don't release specific rates.
According to Jeremy, HR springs are slightly stiffer than RollControls. Linear rate for VW applications.
so far, I'm torn between HR Sport, RollControl, and Vogtland...










_Modified by genxguy at 5:36 PM 7-3-2003_


----------



## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (MikekiM)*

The rates for the Vogtland that you quoted on pg 1, are they for the Competition springs or the Red Violet springs? Thanks.


----------



## MikekiM (Aug 21, 2001)

For the Vogtland Sports. Competitions are about another 10-20% stiffer.


----------



## sicks (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GeeTeeEyeVR6)*

skunk2 coilovers for mk2
400# all the way around..
this is the info they gave me on the fone when i called them


----------



## SRSVW (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (sicks)*

Copy H&R spring rates!! That is one of the funniest things I have ever heard! 
The reason they dont quote rates is largely because the salesmen dont know and cant measure them.They dont have an engineer in this country!!! It is a simple thing to measure springs.Even the supposed progressives.It is H&Rs choice to not release the numbers to the consumer. I dont know about everyone else,but I wont do business with a company that wont support their product.You may if you choose,This is America after all. I have most H&R rates because I have taken the time to measure them. None were even close to the claimed rates when I was lucky enough to get them.If you want to know the rates (the real rates) you have to measure and test them.I will test them for you if you want to bring them by or send them.I dont keep my rates secret because you cant make a reasonable decision without the information.We should all put pressure on all these people that think their springs are magic and the rate is as secret as the formula for CocaCola
This is just an absurd situation!! I can assure you that no racing team buys springs without all the pertinent engineering data.It just isnt done!!Dont settle for this BULL.

Just my rant (I am worse with age) Dick Shine


----------



## darrenewest (Oct 28, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (SRSVW)*

Dick's right, most people who sell their products (H+R) have no idea what their doing. They have no idea what their trying to push .... it sayys race so it must handle better .......... I have ridden in a SRS MK IV setup and it was simply awesome. 2x better than my previous Neuspeed sport / Bilstein 28mm RSB setup .... But I couldn't cope with the non-existant drop and yes stiff setup.... So now i'm on PSS 9's and about the same level of the Shine real street with a excessive 1.75" Drop and no RSB .... Just as stiff. Considering adding a Shine rear O bar but that's another subject, Dick ?


----------



## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (darrenewest)*

O man don't dare call Dick Shines rear bar an O bar...they are similar but NOT near the same quality. better delete that part of your post if you. FWIW he's not to fond of the pss-9 as their heighest setting is still 1" drop, and as us Shine disciples know is to low for an mk4...


----------



## darrenewest (Oct 28, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (RABIDRABBIT1983)*

As I stated, I couldn't live with the non existant drop of the SRS kit, although I could live with the awesome handling of it, Yes my car is a compromise between looks and performance, I'm the first to admit to it. I'm not setup properly ... Im also running a purely asthetitcs wheel tire combo which does not help my handling situation 235/45/17 front and 245/40/17 on 8.5" and 10" Rims. So I'm screwed from the get-go. Sorry about the O bar comment Dick, I will be in touch with you concerning your RSB?, Soon.


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## SRSVW (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (darrenewest)*

Darren You seem like a nice guy so I will let it slide! Just kidding. I get really incensed when I hear my product mentioned in the same sentence as that inferior knockoff. It sounds like you did your homework and ended up with something that meets all of your needs! Great,that is what this is all about! I know that my kit isnt for everyone and talk as many people out of it as ones I sell. Thats OK.
Dick Shine


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## TomSwift (Oct 12, 2001)

Manufacturer: Shine Racing Services (Real Street)
Vehicle: MKII Golf 4-cylinder models
Spring Type: Linear
FT Rate: 300
RR Rate: 250
I love my coilovers (for a MKIII VR6 I believe) and my rear bar (with the front removed).
That and the manual steering rack was the best thing I have done to my car (yet).
Thank you Dick!!!!!


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## dubmata (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: (alexb75)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alexb75* »_
I've been after getting the H&R rates, but was not successfull so far. I've been told that they're not going to publish their rates so other companies won't copy their rates. 

Maybe I'm just a bit naive but that doesn't make any sense to me. Couldn't competitors interested in copying their setup simply measure the springs themselves...?


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## SRSVW (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: (dubmata)*

Exactly!!!

Dick Shine


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## wjbski (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: (dubmata)*

-I've been after getting the H&R rates, but was not successfull so far. I've been told that they're not going to publish their rates so other companies won't copy their rates. -

I purchased H&R O.E. sports along with Koni yellows for my A2 jetta. I really liked the improved ride, but when I wanted to start to "fine tune" the set up, I tried to get the rates from H&R and they told me flat out that they don't release that information because it's proprietary. I could've sent the springs out to be "dyno-ed", but that would've left the car not running for 2 weeks, plus it would've cost $$ for shipping and testing. I got so dissapointed, I just sold the entire set-up. I'll probably attempt another suspension for my ' 92 jetta, but I can assure you that H&R WON'T be getting any more of my $$.


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## pyce (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (wjbski)*

This is way too funny







Like someone sells you a tire, but does not tell you what is the max load and how are they rated and what's the max PSI, the tread ware and traction ......... just tells you this is 205-16 tire, go use it, it will fit your rims....... And do not dare to ask for any data, because it is proprietary! 
I actually almost can't believe all this, because H&R is so famous and old company, started by these two (pretty old now) gentlemen, who look like people who would know that publishing their spring rates would not harm in any way their established business.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport MkIV spring rates*

Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport for MkIV
Golf/GTI 1.8T/VR6:
- Front: 200 lbs/inch, linear
- Rear: 160 lbs/inch, linear
Jetta and 2.0L are probably the same rates, but this is unconfirmed.
According to Neuspeed, the front springs are longer on the VR6 to account for the extra engine weight, but the spring rates are the same.
These springs appear to be "progressive" in the box, but when installed, the "progressive" coils bind up to a solid block under the weight of the car. They are there to prevent the spring from falling out of the perch at full suspension droop.


----------



## dmkozak (Aug 22, 2001)

*Re: Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport MkIV spring rates (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport for MkIV
Golf/GTI 1.8T/VR6:
- Front: 200 lbs/inch, linear 

Shouldn't that be 220 lbs for the fronts?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport MkIV spring rates (dmkozak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmkozak* »_Shouldn't that be 220 lbs for the fronts?

According to Greg at Neuspeed, it is 200lbs not 220.


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## dmkozak (Aug 22, 2001)

*Re: Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport MkIV spring rates (phatvw)*

Sorry, that's got to be a typo on Greg's part. I've exchanged lots of e-mails with Greg, and both he and all of Neuspeed's literature say SofSports fronts are 220 lb rated springs.
P.S. 220/160 retains the Factory fr/rr spring rate ratio. Neuspeed is not known for changing these ratios. Otherwise, Neuspeed would be stiffening the rear proportionately more than the fronts, a la Shine.


_Modified by dmkozak at 6:43 AM 8-13-2003_


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport MkIV spring rates (dmkozak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmkozak* »_Sorry, that's got to be a typo on Greg's part. I've exchanged lots of e-mails with Greg, and both he and all of Neuspeed's literature say SofSports fronts are 220 lb rated springs.
P.S. 220/160 retains the Factory fr/rr spring rate ratio. Neuspeed is not known for changing these ratios. Otherwise, Neuspeed would be stiffening the rear proportionately more than the fronts, a la Shine.

_Modified by dmkozak at 6:43 AM 8-13-2003_

Oh yeah thats right, he did mention preserving the front/rear ratio so it probably was a typo.


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## gtimagic (Feb 13, 2002)

*Re: Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport MkIV spring rates (phatvw)*

any confirmed spring rated for an A2 16v gti. (some companies offer diff. springs for 8 vs 16v)
I would be interested in:
H&R Sports
H&R Race
NSpd Sports
NSpd Race
RPI (by susp. tech.)
RPI (by H&R)
Eibach 
Shines varieties
Bilstein BTS kit springs
Weitec
Apex
thanks


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## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport MkIV spring rates (gtimagic)*

Bump


----------



## scsi (Mar 23, 2002)

*Re: Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport MkIV spring rates (keycom)*

bump..very interesting stuff!
i wonder why weitec wont give out spring rates


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## Sandlock (Aug 10, 2001)

*Re: Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport MkIV spring rates (scsi)*

if anyone has KW var2 rates for mark3's id like that too. ive heard wietec and kw are one in the same, so for either, thanks in advance


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport MkIV spring rates (Sandlock)*

My new H&R RSS ClubSport coils : 800#f 400#r
Should be interesting when they go in this weekend.


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## cburkart (Jan 10, 2000)

*Why don't some makers publish rates?*

You know, I've been thinking about why some of these companies refuse to publish spring rates. Could it be that their quality control is so poor that they're afraid of someone actually measuring their springs and finding out how far they are from the specified rates?
I really can't think of any other explanation; as stated before, if a competitor wanted their rates, they could quickly and easily buy a set of springs and get them measured.


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## _GoatPunishment_ (Mar 29, 2002)

I know my H&R rates for my MK3.
800lb fr
515lb rr
Oh yeah these are Group "G" race springs.


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## Martinus (Oct 25, 2002)

*Re: (_GoatPunishment_)*

What ??? 800# front springs ?


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## scsi (Mar 23, 2002)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *9VW23yrs* »_KW published front coil over spring rates
Available rates, first number = rate in N/mm; second number =spring length in mm.
50-170 =285 lb/inch
60-170 =342 lb/inch
70-170 =400 lb/inch these are the ones mine came with for 4cyl mk4 G/J
80-170 =457 lb/inch
90-170 =514 lb inch
100-170 =571 lb/inch
110-170 =628 lb/inch
120-170 =685 lb/inch
What spring number (xx-170)do the ones for the 6cyl mk4 have ? 


i dont understand this 
whats the spring rates for KW v1 and v2 coilovers for a 4cyl mk4? i know the bilstein pss-9 is like 350f 300r so im trying to compare


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## sbiggi (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: (scsi)*

Skunk2 Race Springs:
2.0L Golf/Jetta III
450 lb/inch all round


----------



## joyofdriving (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport MkIV spring rates (cabzilla)*

Can anyone post rates for Shine's Mk3 VR6 GTi rates? I've only seen Mk4/2 rates, no Mk3 support.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport MkIV spring rates (joyofdriving)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joyofdriving* »_Can anyone post rates for Shine's Mk3 VR6 GTi rates? I've only seen Mk4/2 rates, no Mk3 support.

300 front
200 rear


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport MkIV spring rates (f1forkvr6)*

I think someone should put all the rates together and then ask the moderator to make it as a sticky on top. This would be a very needed thread.


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## Hoadley (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GeeTeeEyeVR6)*

Post more for mk2's thanks. Wolf 1.8, don't even reply.


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## Wolf1.8 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (speedtriple43)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speedtriple43* »_Post more for mk2's thanks. Wolf 1.8, don't even reply.









sorry for pointing out the obvious!!!







I'll try harder *NOT* to help in the future


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (Wolf1.8)*

You know, I did a quick check and there really aren't many posts about MK II spring rates (other than Shine, other than someone using MKIII VR6 Shine springs on his MKII, and a post about skunk 2s with rates that are much too high for a daily driver). Mostly MKIII and MKIV stuff (and my B4 info







)
Which MKII rates have I missed?


_Modified by f1forkvr6 at 12:05 PM 9-5-2003_


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## Wolf1.8 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (f1forkvr6)*

there are some though and that was my point


----------



## Hoadley (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (f1forkvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *f1forkvr6* »_You know, I did a quick check and there really aren't many posts about MK II spring rates (other than Shine, other than someone using MKIII VR6 Shine springs on his MKII, and a post about skunk 2s with rates that are much too high for a daily driver). Mostly MKIII and MKIV stuff (and my B4 info







)
Which MKII rates have I missed?

_Modified by f1forkvr6 at 12:05 PM 9-5-2003_

Thanks, I'd like to know about neuspeeds, h&rs, and eibachs mostly. Any others would be helpfull.
You just can't stop can you wolf.


----------



## jfuncis (Jan 26, 2002)

MK2 Cheap RPI coil-overs w/KYB shocks
1.75in drop
ft:450lb
rr:350lb
doesn't hurt the innards!
JRo


----------



## ERTW (Jan 17, 2000)

*Re: Neuspeed Sofsport/Softsport MkIV spring rates (Sandlock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sandlock* »_if anyone has KW var2 rates for mark3's id like that too. ive heard wietec and kw are one in the same, so for either, thanks in advance









Kw Var 2
70-170 Front Main
20-60-80 Tender Spring
50-250 Rear Main
20-60-80 Rear Tender


----------



## einsig (Jan 29, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but I now have verified spring rates for the Autotech Clubsport (1.8T and 2.0L). These are progressive springs custom made for this application, you cannot buy them alone. Looking at the working rates there is a striking simialrity to the Shine setup (Dick will probably flip that I dare compare his linears to some progressive spring, but too bad!).
FT initial rate: 120lb/in
FT final rate: 265lb/in
FT working rate: 200-250lb/in
RR initial rate: 100lb/in
RR final rate: 180lb/in
RR working rate: ~150-180lb/in


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## SRSVW (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (einsig)*

Einsig if you put these springs in a tester and measure them at the installed lengths you will be shocked at what you find! They are linear!
Dick Shine


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## apr2009gti (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (SRSVW)*

deleted....
I just bought 337 suspension set and am curious about how good they are.


_Modified by ryker77 at 7:52 PM 6-16-2004_


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## pyce (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (ryker77)*

The reason I did not post that picture myself is because the spring tester may not be accurate, which makes this result "not verified", therefore does not belong to this topic. Once the spring is tested again by a different tester, a more modern and accurate one, then it will be safe to post it.....


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## EuroTin (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (pyce)*

What would be a good spring to match up w/ bilstein sports on a MK3 GTI VR6

I know lowing the car too much will not give optimal performace, but i'm not racing or auto xing....just having fun driving on Long Island roads...looking to lower 1.5-2 front and rear matched w/ a rear sway bar...
so what would be good springs to do this...and what would the rates be?


----------



## GTI.TECHNIK (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (V ARE 6)*

Bilstein Pss9 spring rates are 400fr. / 315rr. ... I just wanted to clarify that cause someone had put the wrong spring rates for the pss9's earlier...


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## yosemitesamiam (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*


_Quote »_
I verified with Eibach on two separate occasions regarding the spring rate… It is 131lbs. What makes the car not bottom out is the fact that it is linear rate. I know when I had the H&R sports on the car, it was lower although the springs are technical stiffer. Also, the bump stop acts as a secondary spring to prevent the suspension from bottoming out. I have an Autotech lower tie-bar and I haven’t had any clearance problems with the Pro-System.

Not to dig up a dead horse...I thought the very definition of bottoming out was when you hit the bump-stops.


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## JeffMk4 (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (yosemitesamiam)*

can someone please explain in detail what spring rate is????


----------



## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (JeffMk4)*

You'll find an explanation on the first page *Here*


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## MikekiM (Aug 21, 2001)

*Re: Why don't some makers publish rates? (cburkart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cburkart* »_You know, I've been thinking about why some of these companies refuse to publish spring rates. Could it be that their quality control is so poor that they're afraid of someone actually measuring their springs and finding out how far they are from the specified rates?


Many companies don't publish the rates because typical street application type people don't need the information, and don't know what the information means.
Many people will simply look for the spring with the highest rates and buy those. Obviously any spring can easily be measured for spring rate, so there's no hiding the facts, but some companies cater their springs differently, and it isn't always the rate that's most important.


----------



## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Why don't some makers publish rates? (MikekiM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MikekiM* »_
Many companies don't publish the rates because typical street application type people don't need the information, and don't know what the information means.








warning ... [rant=on]
But - should a potential customer request this information, it would be much better from a customer relationship standpoint to release this information. Why take a hard stand against releasing spring rates, when as you've stated, they can be easily measured? I'm sure it's policy, and has nothing to do with quality control, but it seems to be a pretty silly policy. Folks who could care less about the spring rate won't ask, and others who want to make an informed decision, and are capable of doing so, should have unfettered access to the details about the product they are about to buy. [/rant]


----------



## pyce (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Why don't some makers publish rates? (f1forkvr6)*

Potential story ...... A guy just tested his Stock front Golf springs and the result was about 150 lb spring rate. Then he wants to enhance the handling of his car, by lowering it and stiffening it. He reads that a company called H&R sells their "Sport" springs. He reads on the website that their "Sport" springs are xx % stiffer than Stock and about 1.5" lower than stock, this way to stiffen the ride and lower the center of gravity, so it is all win-win situation ...... so, he calls them and asks about the springs rates, just for curiosity, as he already knows his Golf's stock values to be 150 ....... the answer he gets is: 130 lb/in Front and 137 lb/in Rear! ..... 
So, I guess it will be very difficult for the rep. to explain how exactly the new, enhancing-handling, stiffening-the-ride "Sport" spring is actually softer than the one it replaces..... Yeah, the guy does not really understand much about spring rate values, but he would surely know that 130 is less than 150......
At that particular point the rep. has to explain that it is all good, because those "Sport" springs have to be installed with those "Sport" dampers, which have very stiff bump stops, and because the spring is too short, the car sits nicely on the buffers, which do add a lot of spring rate, so TOGETHER with the low rate "Sport" spring, now we sure have higher than stock spring rates, so "stiffer" ride is now understandable....... But try telling that to a potential customer and see how many would gladly accept the news that they have to ride on their buffers all the time as to get the "enhanced" handling.


----------



## atekipp (May 6, 2002)

*Re: Why don't some makers publish rates? (pyce)*

Manufacturer:JIC-Magic Cross Sport Coilovers
Vehicle: MKIV Jetta/Golf
Spring Type: Linear
FT Rate: 8kg (448)
RR Rate: 5 kg (280)
I love my coilovers...


----------



## MikekiM (Aug 21, 2001)

*Re: Why don't some makers publish rates? (f1forkvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *f1forkvr6* »_
But - should a potential customer request this information, it would be much better from a customer relationship standpoint to release this information.

I agree wholeheartedly. 

_Quote »_
...Folks who could care less about the spring rate won't ask, and others who want to make an informed decision, and are capable of doing so, should have unfettered access to the details about the product they are about to buy. 

Well, I think LOTS of people will ask just for the sake of asking, then have no basis with which to compare to. For example, people are always asking what xyz spring's rates are, without even knowing what they're got on the car to begin with. At that point, the spring rate isn't very useful.
In any case, most professionals serious about racing and performance run a standard size, 2.5", 60mm, or whatnot, which becomes a moot point, as all those rates are typically released.


----------



## hayden (Aug 19, 2000)

*Re: Why don't some makers publish rates? (MikekiM)*

Looks like these have come to the market. Not exactly verified, as the info is just from their site. Nice to have more options though.
Manufacturer: Tein (S.tech lowering spring)
Vehicle: MKIV Golf 4-cylinder and VR6 models
Lowering F/R: 1.5"/1.6"
FT Rate: 196
RR Rate: 179


----------



## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Why don't some makers publish rates? (hayden)*

Those rates seem a bit low for that amout of drop.


----------



## SlvrBllt (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GeeTeeEyeVR6)*

I thought the Eibachs were supposed to be progressive rate?


----------



## fritzner (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (SRSVW)*

is anyone planning on putting this great information all together in one table or something??...
great work everyone..


----------



## abog24 (Feb 23, 2004)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (fritzner)*

so what is the stiffest (or one of the stiffer) springs that lower the car at least 1.5, 1.6 or 1.75 from stock ride height? THanks


----------



## abog24 (Feb 23, 2004)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (abog24)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abog24* »_so what is the stiffest (or one of the stiffer) springs that lower the car at least 1.5, 1.6 or 1.75 from stock ride height? THanks

anyone??


----------



## pittbug (Jun 13, 2004)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GTI.TECHNIK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI.TECHNIK* »_Bilstein Pss9 spring rates are 400fr. / 315rr. ... I just wanted to clarify that cause someone had put the wrong spring rates for the pss9's earlier... 









Would the PSS springs be any different? Just curious if the only difference between the PSS and PSS9 is the adjustable valving on the shock, as I thought I read somewhere that the PSS9's are slightly softer....


----------



## hans j (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (pittbug)*

This is some info for FK kits, mainly just the front from what I have figured out and by all means not verified yet. I found a conversion factor for N/mm to in/lbs, I had to find it so I could convert FK spring rates. 
To read the rates on FK, the first 2 numbers is the length of spring in tens of mm, so 17 = 170 mm untensioned height. The third number is the inner diameter in tens of mm, so 6=61 mm and the last number is the magic one, the rate of the spring in tens of mm, so 7 = 70N/mm which equals 399.7 lbs/in. The conversion is this, use this formula: lbs/in = (5.710)*N/mm.
I have also heard that this rate is the rebound and not the compression, not sure exactly what that means for us, have to read more about it unless someone knows something and can share with us.


----------



## Ceilidh (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (hans j)*

Hi Guys,
Just as a favor







, would you all mind moving your discussion to a separate thread? Peter (Pyce) started this thread specifically to get the colour codes for different OEM (stock) Golf, Jetta, and New Beetle springs, so that he can build a database of what the different spring codes mean in terms of rate and application. When it's all done, the hope is that we'll have a table that people can just look at and say, "Ah yes, if I want to go up 15% in rate but raise the ride height no more than 0.5", I want a spring from a '02 etc....".
Anyway, if you want to keep your discussion here, don't let me chase you off







. But if you wouldn't mind moving it to an independent thread, it'll make it easier for Peter to sort through all the info when it comes time to set up the table. Thanks very much either way, and all the best to all of you.
Cheers,
- Ceilidh


----------



## 805 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GeeTeeEyeVR6)*

Manufacturer H&R coilover
Vehicle '01 GTI
Spring type Frt Linear
Rate 410 lbs
Spring type Rear Progr
Rate at 5 1/2 inches installed height 350 lbs
at 6 in 260 lbs ( more drop)
At 6 1/2 in 220 lbs ( even more drop)


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## briang (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (Ceilidh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ceilidh* »_Hi Guys,
Just as a favor







, would you all mind moving your discussion to a separate thread? Peter (Pyce) started this thread specifically to get the colour codes for different OEM (stock) Golf, Jetta, and New Beetle springs, so that he can build a database of what the different spring codes mean in terms of rate and application. 

Ceilidh, 
I think you mean this tread over here...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1464067


----------



## 805 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (GeeTeeEyeVR6)*

H&R coilovers
Frt 410 lbs -linear
Rear - progresive
350 at installed height of 5 1/2 in
280 at installed height of 6 in low
220 at installed height of 6 1/2 in lower


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## Ceilidh (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (briang)*


_Quote, originally posted by *briang* »_
Ceilidh, 
I think you mean this tread over here...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1464067

Oh my goodness!! You're absolutely right! Apologies to everyone, and thank you very much, Brian. All the best, everybody, and again, sorry for my mistake!
- Winston


----------



## bstr64 (Aug 19, 2004)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

my experience,
I have been told by eibach technical support that the mkiv spring is progressive. they are not happy about talking about anything helpful so let them stay that way while people buy other company's springs.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *9VW23yrs* »_KW published front coil over spring rates
Available rates, first number = rate in N/mm; second number =spring length in mm.
50-170 =285 lb/inch
60-170 =342 lb/inch
70-170 =400 lb/inch these are the ones mine came with for 4cyl mk4 G/J
80-170 =457 lb/inch
90-170 =514 lb inch
100-170 =571 lb/inch
110-170 =628 lb/inch
120-170 =685 lb/inch
What spring number (xx-170)do the ones for the 6cyl mk4 have ? 


Hi Jorge,
The A4(mk4) 4cyl use the 60-170 front spring . The VR6/TDI and 6speed 1.8T use the 70-170. The R32 uses a 80-170. They all use a progressive in the rear .


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## Euro Nation (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I tested the springs off my Weitec XS's for MK1. It was a while ago, but I seem to remember them being:
Front: 425lb/in
Rear: 350lb/in
Also... the bumpstops say KW on them


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## SlvrBllt (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1stVR6* »_Left <Eibach Pro-Kit Springs> Center <H&R Sport> Right <OE Sport>









Pic doesnt work. I would really like to see all 3 side by side.


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## ACEdubs (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

I figure this would be a good place to ask.








Can someone decipher these part numbers?
I have some rear MKIV Weitec springs part# *VW931HA/000*
Does anyone know if this is a 40mm spring or a 60mm spring?
It would be a huge help if anyone knew or had access to finding out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks!


----------



## iMPoRT GeeK (Dec 22, 2004)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (ACEdubs)*

Anyone know the spring rate for Aerospeed coilover sleeves for MK3 Jetta VR6? 
Or the website for Aerospeed?
Thanks...
also just wondering is 450F and 350R is a good setup for daily driver? Mostly highway...
Thanks...


----------



## j0oftheworld (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (iMPoRT GeeK)*

Didn't feel like searching the entire thread for this application...
MK3 4/6cyl
Bilstein PSS9 coilover system. #S03-8056
F:400# R:285#
_Called them 5mins ago._
I may need to add some cushoning to my seat!!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Spicoli (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (darrenewest)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darrenewest* »_MK IV VR6 Neuspeed Sport: 220(5) Front and 160 Rear
MK IV VR6 H+R Sport are 228 Front and 160 Rear
MK IV VR6 RPI Are 225 Front and 170 Rear 
MK IV VR6 Neuspeed Race 280 Front and 220 Rear
MK IV H+R Race are the same as Neuspeed Race. +/- 5 pounds.
MK IV Bilstein PSS9 Coilover 350 Front and 300 rear .... ouch ... (I have these)



This information is wrong. Nuespeeds are similar, but progressive and don't feel as stiff
PSS and PSS9s are 400f/315r


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## be158 (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (Spicoli)*

Manufacturer: balance group
Vehicle: MK1 88 cabby
Spring Type: Linear
FT Rate: 445
RR Rate: 335


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## roccostud (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

this thread is kinda old but im after the stock spring rates for my 84 scirocco. im not even sure ware to start.


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## .je (Feb 8, 2003)

Here are the first 2 pages of the Drivergear springs' information sheet with part numbers and technical data:
Page 1








Page 2








The images might be a little blurry because they were resized to fit on a screen. IM me if youd like the full-size scans (which are larger than the paper







)
You can translate the German (I did this once, my head still hurts) calculate the spring rate from here. Im not sure how precise it would be in practise but at least you could compare its rate to the factory rate.


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## pyce (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (.je)*

Hey, je, what's that "linear" written five times here and there? Is that about the spring's type or something else?


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## pyce (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (.je)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.je* »_It is the spring's type. We already knew they were linear though....

You may have known, but in general folks on the Vortex still beleive that these springs are progressive!










_Modified by pyce at 9:38 AM 5-16-2005_


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## QT_GTI (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

I am using PSS-9... my car is under-steering alot... my coilover setting is front - 3 rear - 1 for siffness... I am going to change my springs more stiff... PSS 9 comes with F350 R300... any recommandation? I am thinking to buy F450 R400... anyone drives MKIV and know about setting? please msg me


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (QT_GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QT_GTI* »_I am using PSS-9... my car is under-steering alot... my coilover setting is front - 3 rear - 1 for siffness... I am going to change my springs more stiff... PSS 9 comes with F350 R300... any recommandation? I am thinking to buy F450 R400... anyone drives MKIV and know about setting? please msg me

If you have an mkiv, which I'm guessing you do based upon your profile, then the spring rates are 400 frt and 315 rear. What makes you think the car is understeering? Do you have a camber kit, or more camber yet, what swaybars, and what tire and tire pressures are you running. It could also be a driver induced understeer as well. Front springs in different rates are readily available, but rear springs will have to be custom made if you want to up the stiffness, nothing is readily available as of yet.


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## QT_GTI (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (rex_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rex_racer* »_
If you have an mkiv, which I'm guessing you do based upon your profile, then the spring rates are 400 frt and 315 rear. What makes you think the car is understeering? Do you have a camber kit, or more camber yet, what swaybars, and what tire and tire pressures are you running. It could also be a driver induced understeer as well. Front springs in different rates are readily available, but rear springs will have to be custom made if you want to up the stiffness, nothing is readily available as of yet.

rex, I got mkiv which i mentioned and i dont have camber kit yet, any recommandation? currently, I am using Neuspeed 28mm rear sway and 20something front sway(H&R)... the tire that I am using is RA-1 and I am running 41psi (front) 38 (rear)...


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## banjomike (Feb 1, 2005)

come on! if you have a verified spring rate for a product out there, then by all means post it here. This coilover discussion should be in it's own thread. Move it elsewhere guys!


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: (banjomike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *banjomike* »_come on! if you have a verified spring rate for a product out there, then by all means post it here. This coilover discussion should be in it's own thread. Move it elsewhere guys!

Hmm, you know I think I did mention the spring rate of the PSS9 coilovers. He printed misinformation and then I corrected him w/ the right information, straight from bilstein and other sources...


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## G_V_K (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (hans j)*

FK catalogue states that the 4th number is the spring rate in n/mm x 10
So my front FK springs FK1866
18 = 180mm free length (7")
6 = 60mm ID coils ( I measured them as this) 
6 = 60n/mm = 342 lbs..




































Had the springs tested at 225 lbs










_Modified by G_V_K at 9:08 AM 6-18-2005_


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## Afazz (Feb 10, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (bedes)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bedes* »_anyone know the rates for Weitec XS coilovers?


I apoligize if this has been answered because I didn't look through all 6 pages, but this is true with weitec as well as most coilovers. 
There are usually a few numbers on the main spring of the coilovers. If there are three numbers, and one is "60", that's probably a 60mm ID coilover spring. If there are two numbers, one is usually length (in mm) and the other is the rate, usually in N/mm. To get pounds/inch from Newtons/millimeter, multiply by 5.71. To get length in inches from millimeters, divide by 25.4. For example, if your spring says '70/140" on it;
70 x 5.71 = 399.7 lbs/in
140 / 25.4 = 5.51" long
So they're 400 lb/in and 5.51" long. 
My Weitec coils were labeled like this, my friend's H&Rs were labeled like this, and my other friend's KW coilovers were labeled like this. 
Edit: I'm an idiot, this has been mentioned 3 times already on this page










_Modified by Afazz at 8:03 PM 8-10-2005_


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## 84Rocco2bturbo (Feb 13, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (.je)*

The picts are nice and informative but they don't say anything about spring rates though.
I read and speak German and the only thing these pages show are the different part number and dimentions of the springs for the various models. Unless I over saw it, I did not find spring rates listed...


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## 4dBunny (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (84Rocco2bturbo)*

Just an FYI.
Drivergear springs (at least for a 1.8T GTI) are in fact the European Pro-Kit springs. I checked the stampings against the listings on Eibach's European site.
Spring Rates (published)
131 F (linear) 30mm lowering from OEM Golf; 20mm lowering from OEM GTI
134 R (linear) 30mm lowering from OEM Golf; 20mm lowering from OEM GTI
Also, the tech at Eibach told me that the US Pro-Kit should be exactly the same as the European Pro-Kit but with a different stamping or part number. He stated that Eibach USA does not redevelop a kit if Eibach Europe already has one in production.
PMB


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (4dBunny)*

so, 
the H&R sport spring rates for a mk3 gti vr6 are about
130 front and rear???


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## briang (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_so, 
the H&R sport spring rates for a mk3 gti vr6 are about
130 front and rear???
 If you re-read, you will see the rates quoted were for Eibach not H&R.


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (briang)*


_Quote, originally posted by *briang* »_ If you re-read, you will see the rates quoted were for Eibach not H&R.

i was told these rates by a poster on here. not from this thread.
does anyone have the H&R spring rate info.


----------



## briang (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_
does anyone have the H&R spring rate info.

H&R won't disclose the rates...buy you can try and call them...


----------



## core5 (Apr 28, 2006)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (briang)*

I don't have the equipment to test this myself, but this is what is posted on TEIN's website
TEIN Basic Coilover Setup.
Front 390lbs/in; 7Kgf/mm
Rear 360lbs/in; 6.5Kgf/mm


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## tojones (May 6, 2006)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

Don't remember seeing Eibach Sportline rates. anyone know what they are for VR6 MK4 jet










_Modified by tojones at 7:24 PM 2-17-2007_


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## bmxracerx (Aug 28, 2006)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (darrenewest)*

This is great info but is it still current? This post was from 02.
I'm just trying to get a feel for if I change my H&R Sport's out for the Neuspeed Sport's, will the ride be the same? I love the H&R's but hate the rake. 1.5 F-1.4 R. The Neuspeed Sports are 1.5 F&R. BTW, I have Koni shocks.

_Quote, originally posted by *darrenewest* »_MK IV VR6 Neuspeed Sport: 220(5) Front and 160 Rear
MK IV VR6 H+R Sport are 228 Front and 160 Rear
I did a Little research and a whole lot of E-mailing. RPI Said there's were almost identical too Neuspeed's, although 10lb stiffer rear. I Emailed Neuspeed and they emailed the rates back too me the same day. H+R's I got from Denon, and are almost identical too Neuspeed's because they (H+R) use to Manufacture for them, but no longer. Neuspeed used their rates and found another manufacture .... If not totally correct let me know and I'll edit them, though I'm 98% Sure. Happy hunting, The Shine's are PERFECTLY matched to Bilstein damper's valving from what I can gather. I need a life. - Darren

For the comparison of the H&R Sport rears and the Neuspeed Sport rears, can someone verify is these are still correct?


_Modified by bmxracerx at 12:50 AM 2-18-2007_


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## bmxracerx (Aug 28, 2006)

bump for input


----------



## electric zounds (Jul 26, 2005)

anyone know the rates for the weitec TX coilovers rapid parts sells for the mk3 vr6?


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## briang (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (bmxracerx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bmxracerx* »_
For the comparison of the H&R Sport rears and the Neuspeed Sport rears, can someone verify is these are still correct?



I've never seen any hard data to contradict it, and pyce measured the H&R OE Sport to have a working front rate in the 210-220 range, so IMHO the rates are reasonable.


----------



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

Just read through the whole thread, but might have missed it. Anyone have the rates for the H&R RSS mk3 coilovers? Also, does anyone here have good experience with this kit?


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## crazy88 (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (VWn00b)*

bump
us mk5 gti, 133/189 f/r measured by shine


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## sprocket007 (Oct 14, 2002)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

hmm, did not see it in there...lots of info tho...pages
Wade


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (sprocket007)*

I was looking for the spring rates on my Corrado VR6 H&R coilovers. It looks like they have.
Fronts: 48 03 452-2/1 180lb springs
Rears: 48 53 452-2/1 300lb springs
here is a PDF if people want to know where I got the specs:
http://www.h-r.com/katalog_download_de/VW.pdf


----------



## fuscobal (Nov 24, 2004)

*Re: (crazy88)*

Would be nice to know if Shine also measured theeuropean spec mk5 GTI springs !


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## crazy88 (Jul 11, 2003)

bump


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## ovlaicu (Mar 19, 2005)

*Koni coilovers spring rates.*

Anybody knows what the rates are for the Koni coilover springs?
They have some documentation online but is in freaking german. Can anyone translate it?
http://88.198.54.215/pdf/1150-5009-tuv.pdf 
It's at about the midle. Thanks a lot.


----------



## tojones (May 6, 2006)

*Re: Koni coilovers spring rates. (ovlaicu)*

don't think it says anything about rates just max loads
http://www.google.com/translate_t
good luck










_Modified by tojones at 4:18 PM 8-25-2007_


----------



## wolfpuppy (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: Koni coilovers spring rates. (ovlaicu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ovlaicu* »_Anybody knows what the rates are for the Koni coilover springs?
They have some documentation online but is in freaking german. Can anyone translate it?
http://88.198.54.215/pdf/1150-5009-tuv.pdf 
It's at about the midle. Thanks a lot.

Koni CO 1150-5048 (4-cyl MkIV)
174lb/in Front
214-236lb/in Rear (progressive)
Koni CO 1150-5048-1 (VR6 MkIV)
280lb/in Front
214-236lb/in Rear (progressive)
Number came from the beginning of this very thread

_Modified by wolfpuppy at 10:11 PM 8-25-2007_


_Modified by wolfpuppy at 10:12 PM 8-25-2007_


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## briang (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (G60ING)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60ING* »_I was looking for the spring rates on my Corrado VR6 H&R coilovers. It looks like they have.
Fronts: 48 03 452-2/1 180lb springs
Rears: 48 53 452-2/1 300lb springs
here is a PDF if people want to know where I got the specs:
http://www.h-r.com/katalog_download_de/VW.pdf



The way H&R lists springs is "length-rate" 
The 180-070 in the front is the length of the spring in milimeters, 180 and the rate 070. The 300-050 for the rear is the spring lenght in milimeters, 300, and the rate 050. 
The rates are listed in newtons/mm of travel and can be converted to lbs/inch as follows, 1 newton / millimeter = 5.71014715 pounds force / inch.
So 70N/mm = 399.7 lbf/in
and 50N/mm = 285.5 lbf/in


----------



## 514passatvr6 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (briang)*

Anyone have rates for the GLI mk4 2004.5 springs?


----------



## tojones (May 6, 2006)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (514passatvr6)*

check the faq


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (briang)*


_Quote, originally posted by *briang* »_
The way H&R lists springs is "length-rate" 
The 180-070 in the front is the length of the spring in milimeters, 180 and the rate 070. The 300-050 for the rear is the spring lenght in milimeters, 300, and the rate 050. 
The rates are listed in newtons/mm of travel and can be converted to lbs/inch as follows, 1 newton / millimeter = 5.71014715 pounds force / inch.
So 70N/mm = 399.7 lbf/in
and 50N/mm = 285.5 lbf/in









Thanks you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Top-NouchVR6 (Jun 6, 2007)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

does any one know the nuespeed sport and race spring rates for a mrk3 vr6 
and did you guys have the same problem getting nuespeed rates as you did with H&R thanks.








and are they progressive or linear 


_Modified by Top-NouchVR6 at 7:16 PM 9-23-2007_


----------



## Dick Furious (Dec 13, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

Manufacturer: V-Maxx Coilovers
Vehicle: Mk3 VR6
Spring Type: Linear
FT Rate: Main 350, Tender 115
RR Rate: Main 350, Tender 115


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## NS01GTI (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (Dick Furious)*

Sorry to bring this back from the dead, and I didn't go through every page, but I thought that Eibach prokit springs were progressive, whereas on the first page it indicates that they're linear.
Anyone?


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## Serpent7 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

Car: 87 VW Cabriolet w/ 16v conv.
Manufacture of springs: Ebach coilover springs
Struts and shocks: Bielstien
Coilovers: Ground control
Swaybars: 22mm front, 25mm rear (aftermarket forgot brand "red")
Spring rate front: 375lbs.
Spring rate rear: 325lbs.
Aftermarket wheels Borbet type E wheels with 195-40-16 hit the coilovers so I need wheel spacer for them, so temp. running my factory 13" rims, 175-70-13.
Rides somewhat bouncy to me, just installed yesterday and its a daily driver. Handles very well, but I don't have much to compare it too.



_Modified by Serpent7 at 10:02 PM 1-29-2008_


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## DTDSasquatch (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (1stVR6)*

Since I didn't see any off-the-shelf springs for A1's in these 7 pages, I made some phone calls....
Neuspeed Sport Springs (55.10.01)
Front = 140 - 200 lbs/in
Rear = 120 - 150 lbs/in
Neuspeed Race Springs (55.10.05) <--- No longer produced








Front = 275 - 300 lbs/in
Rear = 270 lbs/in
H&R Sport Springs (54740)
*Data not released*
H&R Race Springs (54740-88)
Front = 400 lbs/in
Rear = 285 lbs/in 


_Modified by DTDSasquatch at 6:06 PM 11-5-2008_


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## MTL20th (May 12, 2007)

Megan Racing Lowering Springs Volkswagen Golf / Golf GTI 1999-2005
Megan Racing Performance Lowering Spring Feature Summary: 
- Aggressive lowering height designed to provide a lowered racecar look 
- Lower profile for better handling performance 
- Minimal sagging 
- Lowering heights and spring rates matched specifically to each car 
- Made from SAE-9254 cold-wounded steel for better strength and durability. 
Reference: Megan Racing lowering spring, Megan Racing performance springs, Megan race springs
Product Notes:
FRONT REAR 
Spring Rate (lbs/inch) 350 250 
Max Lowering Height (inch) 1.75" 1.75"


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## killa1 (Jun 28, 2009)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (SRSVW)*

Hey man u seem to know your stuff really well. I was hoping you could help me w/a question. I have a 2000 GTI (1.8T) that i bought used, already dropped (not sure how much of a drop) on 225/40/18's. I need to get either shocks or both shocks & springs (i think the springs are still good) & i want stiffer than facory (not much room b/w tire & wheel well). What name & shock rate should i look for?


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## DAVEG (Aug 14, 2001)

*Re: Post your verified spring rates here (vuu16v)*

vuu, what do you use for shocks? I am creating a SOLO car and was wondering about spring rate. Most coilovers use a 35-336 F and a 285-280 R spring rate. I thought this would be good with sufficient bar force and less compliant busings. 
The problem is with more force there is more wear...do you have addditional welds for the suspension supports...control arm, strut mount, rear bushing mounts...etc?


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## punchbug (Jul 15, 2000)

Is trhere any way this could at least be subdivided by chassis? It's frustrating trying to wade through it in this format. I've got an A1 on H&R sports/Koni yellows and want something that will actually hold the back end up. Problem is I'm TRYING to find out the rate of what I HAVE. FRUSTRATING!!!!:banghead:
I cannot believe that there is no exhaustive listing of spring rates for our cars.


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## highdesertVR6 (Nov 22, 2006)

does anyone have the rates for MK4 B&G RS2's??:thumbup:


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## spoon! (Sep 1, 2005)

punchbug said:


> Is trhere any way this could at least be subdivided by chassis? It's frustrating trying to wade through it in this format. I've got an A1 on H&R sports/Koni yellows and want something that will actually hold the back end up. Problem is I'm TRYING to find out the rate of what I HAVE. FRUSTRATING!!!!:banghead:
> I cannot believe that there is no exhaustive listing of spring rates for our cars.


It's not printed on your spring? That's weird.


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## leskie (Jan 26, 2009)

FK-powertech or silverline coilover main rates?? thanks


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## Arnolds64 (Nov 13, 2009)

*Progressive Rate?*



darrenewest said:


> MK IV VR6 Neuspeed Sport: 220(5) Front and 160 Rear
> MK IV VR6 H+R Sport are 228 Front and 160 Rear
> MK IV VR6 RPI Are 225 Front and 170 Rear
> MK IV VR6 Neuspeed Race 280 Front and 220 Rear
> ...


I have the Neuspeeds and they are Progressive rate and you show a Linear number? One thing that is a concern is that just sitting the dead coils are laying on top of each other with no gap. I am assuming they work on rebound and as the spring come down? It just looks as if there is not much left in the range of motion.


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## dainese (Jul 23, 2009)

Arnolds64 said:


> I have the Neuspeeds and they are Progressive rate and you show a Linear number? One thing that is a concern is that just sitting the dead coils are laying on top of each other with no gap. I am assuming they work on rebound and as the spring come down? It just looks as if there is not much left in the range of motion.


That's like the konis then. Springs are binder together because of lack of travel from either ride height or design. 

It really means the initial range of progressive rates are not available. 

Harsh ride? 

Sent from my GT-I9100


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## dieselpower04 (Jan 12, 2008)

9VW23yrs said:


> KW published front coil over spring rates
> Available rates, first number = rate in N/mm; second number =spring length in mm.
> 50-170 =285 lb/inch
> 60-170 =342 lb/inch
> ...


I currently have the 80-170 springs on my KW V2's on my diesel, very stiff. Going to put the 350 lb/in springs from my Racelands in this weekend to see if it rides smoother :beer:


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

Since this is alive again. 

ST Coilovers for b6/b7 Audi A4: 690# f. / Prog. r.


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## Shagmeister (Apr 20, 2013)

*02 Golf 4 GTI PD150 front spring, uk spec*

Not sure this is really the place for it, but it took me more than 6 hrs to find the right springs for my golf. So if i can save someone else the ball ache thats good for me.

I have a golf 4, uk spec, 02, PD150, with full GTi level susp as standard.

this runs the

1j0 411 105 ce on the front
(2 blue 3 white, 2B 3W)

GSF stock an after market at 1/3 of the cost of VW, its a Kilen spring (made by GKN), Pt# 25076

same spring as the 2.8 V6 4M

hope this helps someone in cyber land


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## Edmundo II (Oct 16, 2012)

Spring rates for Koni coilovers PN 1150-5080 (MK6 GTi)?


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## kbrowne (Oct 14, 2010)

anyone know the spring rates if i wanted to order swift springs to replace my fk highsport springs?


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## makdaddy (Apr 3, 2003)

kbrowne said:


> anyone know the spring rates if i wanted to order swift springs to replace my fk highsport springs?


Same question, but I want to replace the springs on my FK Silverline Plus X.


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