# Timing Belts, Timing Chains, Serpentine Belts (V8 and W12 engines)



## jlturpin (Oct 22, 2003)

*What is the service interval on Timing belt/chain of V8*

As the title says. I need to know the service interval on the V8 Timing belt or chain? Does this require the engine to be removed? Thanks in advance. I am considering a High mileage Phaeton if the price is right. Service records through 50K but nothing after that. Over 100K miles on the clock.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: What is the service interval on Timing belt/chain of V8 (jlturpin)*

Maintenance schedules for all NAR Phaetons - 2004 through 2006 - can be found as downloadable PDF files at this link: Oil Change on a Phaeton (includes TB 17-06-01). The same thread is also listed in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category) as Maintenance & Service Schedules (what needs to be done, when) - it is the very first entry under the heading "Phaeton Technical Reference Material".
Michael


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## jlturpin (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: What is the service interval on Timing belt/chain of V8 (PanEuropean)*

I called myself looking, guess I searched for timing. Thanks


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: What is the service interval on Timing belt/chain of V8 (jlturpin)*

No problem at all. The TOC is getting kind of big now - I am actually thinking it might be time to create an alphabetical index with cross-references to compliment it. The software that Vortex runs on (Zeroforum) is great for discussion, but not well suited to looking up past content.
There are times when I see a question and think "Gee, I know we have discussed that before, but where the heck is the information?" I'm sure you have probably had the same thought too.
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: What is the service interval on Timing belt/chain of V8 (jlturpin)*

So if it hasn't been done at about 80k it is past due. Can a mechanic take a peek at it without a lot of disassembly?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: What is the service interval on Timing belt/chain of V8 (Paldi)*

It's easier to look up the service history in the VW computer system. If the work has been done by a VW dealer, it will be documented and a summary of what was done can be viewed by any other VW dealer.
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: What is the service interval on Timing belt/chain of V8 (jlturpin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jlturpin* »_Service records through 50K but nothing after that. Over 100K miles on the clock.

If VW computerized records indicate no service since 50k, I'd do the timing belt and the rest of the 80k service for peace of mind. But you might consider passing on this one.


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## Highline (Mar 13, 2003)

Is timing belt on the Phaeton of rubber material, as in most cars? If so, and if you'e living in a hot climate part of the USA, consider the service intervals more frequent then the VW document states.
I live in a hot climate and in my car (not a Phaeton) the timing belt is changed every 60k km despite VW manuals stating for the engine in my car, an interval double that (120k).


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: What is the service interval on Timing belt/chain of V8 (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_It's easier to look up the service history in the VW computer system. If the work has been done by a VW dealer, it will be documented and a summary of what was done can be viewed by any other VW dealer.

Michael,
This is true iff (all you math majors should be able to define that one...) the work was warranty in nature, or otherwise paid for by VW. Any customer-pay work will only register on the computer system of the dealer that performed it.

_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_But you might consider passing on this one.

Fred,
I assume you're speaking of passing on the whole vehicle & not passing on the timing belt replacement. Broken timing belts are _very_ expensive...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: What is the service interval on Timing belt/chain of V8 (chrisj428)*

Hi Chris:
Thanks for posting that important correction - I did not know that.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Highline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Highline* »_Is timing belt on the Phaeton of rubber material, as in most cars? 

I don't know what the belt on the 4.2 V8 engine is made of. 
The 6.0 W12 engine does not have a belt, it uses chains.
Michael


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## jlturpin (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

OK thanks to all. I will not have anything to do with the car on ebay (one with the 22" bling http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif ). Not just because of the questionable history, there are just a lot of other nicer, lower mileage, certified cars out there. I would be interested to know what is required to do a timing belt on the 4.2 in the Phaeton. The belt is at the back of the engine, right? I know it's not on the 4.2 in the Touareg, but have heard that it is in the Phaeton.


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## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Okay, you got my attention. What's involved with changing the timing belt, and at what mileage interval? 


_Modified by petermueller at 9:56 AM 1-30-2007_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (petermueller)*

Geez, I dunno - it's probably the big serpentine thing attached to the front of the engine in the picture below. I suspect that it holds all the parts together, like a strap around an overstuffed suitcase.
My strategy has always been to never open the hood unless it is to add washer fluid, and then only if the low fluid warning message appears . I'm not an engine enthusiast...








Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (petermueller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *petermueller* »_What's involved with changing the timing belt...

Maybe this? Who knows, here be dragons...
(just kidding)


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: What is the service interval on Timing belt/chain of V8 (chrisj428)*

Right. I would not consider purchasing a Phaeton that hasn't been serviced in over 60,000 miles - it's a wonder it's still running.







I wonder if a great independant German car mechanic - many of whom cut their teeth on old V12's from Benz and BMW manufacture, can do a good job maintaining a Phaeton?
That serpantine belt looks doable, but those camshaft chains might be a little harder...


_Modified by Paldi at 1:11 PM 1-30-2007_


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## jlturpin (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: What is the service interval on Timing belt/chain of V8 (Paldi)*

Paldi, I'm sure that someone did some maintenance, just not someone who reported the visit to Carfax like VW does. 
The photo that Michael attached is helpful. That is the timing belt and serpentine belt. The serpentine belt is ribbed and the timing belt is toothed. If you look closely, you'll see two belts. Thanks again for all of you and the help over the past several years.


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## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael:
Thanks for the info-I always thought that the timing belt and timing chain were different. Looking at the picture it seems that there is a chain in the engine and a belt outside. I'm not too worried about the belt but the chain looks like a lot of work if it needs to be replaced.
Peter
I changed my original response because the VW parts info lists the belt as a timing belt. 
_Modified by petermueller at 10:47 AM 1-30-2007_

_Modified by petermueller at 10:48 AM 1-30-2007_


_Modified by petermueller at 10:51 AM 1-30-2007_


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: (petermueller)*

You are right Peter. No external timing belts on movern cars. Particurarly if the piston design is an inteference design. Remember we are timing the Cams and hence the valves in relationship with the position of the pistons not just the spark angle.


_Modified by GripperDon at 11:48 AM 1-30-2007_


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Okay -- going to address a few concerns here.
#1 The photo Michael posted shows an Audi 4.2 V8 -- ostensibly the same engine in the 4.2 Phaeton. There are two belts showing. The lower belt, which keeps to the bottom half of the engine, runs the ancillaries. This is what is commonly referred to as the "serpentine belt" and is able to be inspected visually by just opening the hood and looking. The belt on the top half is covered and is referred to as the "timing belt". This syncronizes the movement between the crankshaft (where the pistons are attached) and the intake camshaft (which opens & closes the valves allowing fuel & air into the engine). The chain you see at the top right serves to syncronize movement between the intake camshaft and the exhaust camshaft.
#2 The serpentine belt is present on both engines. The timing belt is only on the V8. The timing chain is only on the W12. They are both at the front of the engine. The camshaft chain is present on both engines.
#3 The timing belt *must be replaced at the specified interval*. Period. I don't put the fear of G-d in people over most repairs, but this is one of 'em. I would also replace the timing belt tensioner, roller and (possibly) water pump as, typically, there is no additional labour to do these along with the belt itself.
#4 The Audi S4 V8 changed from a timing belt to a timing chain and moved to the rear of the engine for packaging concerns.
#5 Replacing the timing belt involves putting the vehicle in the "service position" (moving the front clip forward and down, removing the covers, replacing the necessary components, reassembling all, dressing of wounds and about five Hail Marys to compensate for the swearing.


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Chris You are definitively right. That is the way it is on this V8.
I forgot, I guess it is because I will always personally prefer chains for all those (what I call Critical functions) The running of Alternators, pumps of various kinds etc while very important don't reach the level of what I feel are "Critical to engine survival." Others may differ.










_Modified by GripperDon at 1:05 PM 1-30-2007_


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_I forgot, I guess it is because I will always personally prefer chains for all those (what I call Critical functions) The running of Alternators, pumps of various kinds etc while very important don't reach the level of what I feel are "Critical to engine survival." Others may differ.









Agreed!
A serpentine belt breaking is inconvenient.
A timing belt breaking is catastrophic.


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## jlturpin (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_
#5 Replacing the timing belt involves putting the vehicle in the "service position" (moving the front clip forward and down, removing the covers, replacing the necessary components, reassembling all, dressing of wounds and about five Hail Marys to compensate for the swearing.

Any idea on the the amout of time required to do this "book time"
Thanks


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (jlturpin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jlturpin* »_Any idea on the the amout of time required to do this "book time"

I would think somewhere around 6-7 hours for the timing belt, tensioner & water pump on a V8 Phaeton.


_Modified by chrisj428 at 5:40 PM 1-30-2007_


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## henna gaijin (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: (jlturpin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jlturpin* »_
Any idea on the the amout of time required to do this "book time"
Thanks

Here's a write-up on the service (plus water pump replacement) done on a V8 Touareg. I would expect similar labor/parts costs on a Phaeton.
80K V8 Touareg Service
HTH


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## cxg231 (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_#4 The Audi S4 V8 changed from a timing belt to a timing chain and moved to the rear of the engine for packaging concerns.

Thanks for bringing that up. I had just assumed that all of the Audi 4.2L V8 engines had timing chains. Interesting that the S4 and RS4 motors are different. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jlturpin (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: (henna gaijin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *henna gaijin* »_
Here's a write-up on the service (plus water pump replacement) done on a V8 Touareg. I would expect similar labor/parts costs on a Phaeton.
80K V8 Touareg Service
HTH


Thanks I had read that a few days ago. I will do a write up when I do the Timing belt on my next phaeton, minus crazy dealer labor.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_...The serpentine belt is present on both engines.

Oh my Gawd does this mean that there is some kind of belt on my engine too?







Volkswagen fooled me, I didn't see any kind of belt on the W12 engine that was on display at the Geneva Auto Show. Next thing I bet you're going to tell me is that it has hoses on it too.
Michael


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## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

So if I have this right there is a timing belt and a timing chain on the V8
Timing belt: http://replacement.autopartswa...=true
Has picture of belt
Timing chain:
http://replacement.autopartswa...false
Has picture of camshaft timing chain (two required)


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (petermueller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *petermueller* »_So if I have this right there is a timing belt and a timing chain on the V8

Correct.
The belt is driven by the crankshaft and operates the water pump & the intake cams.
The chains are driven by the intake cams and operate the exhaust cams.
There is no specified service interval for the chains.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

I found the rubber belt on the W12 engine. It is very difficult to see when the engine is installed in the car.
Michael


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

I think I like the name serpent belt over serpentine.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

I had never seen this thread before, until now. As a W12 owner, I am very happy to hear that I will never have to worry about a timing belt replacement, since I have a chain and not a belt. 
However, this makes me curious as to why the V8 (or all other engines for that matter) aren't designed with a timing chain instead of a belt too?
Ron


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Highline said:


> <p>I live in a hot climate and in my car (not a Phaeton) the timing belt is changed every 60k km despite VW manuals stating for the engine in my car, an interval double that (120k).


I just had my timing belt changed at 111250km - 69k plus miles and I can assure you that Kuwait is way hotter than Dubai yet my belt looked great with no wear and tear what so ever.

I think 60k km is way to early to change a timing belt. 

Regards,

Salah


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