# Ohlins suspension



## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

*Ohlins / TT suspension*

My suspension progression has been S-line stock -> Euro S-line springs on stock dampers -> Bilstein PSS10 -> Ohlins R&T with Euro springs. I did like a lot of aspects of the Bilsteins, but they are just a little too harsh for me on uneven pavement around town (frost heaved concrete streets especially). This seems to be a characteristic of most monotube shocks.

I first heard about the Ohlins from ryeboy on the R32 forum, who got linear springs and a Ground Control conversion kit for height adjustment. Then when I spent some time at VND Motorsport up in BC, I got to talking about suspension with the owner, Shawn. He has tried 2 or 3 different setups on his R32, springs, PSS10, KW V3, and I forget what else. He said that he was not satisfied with any of them and based on rides in other Ohlins prepped cars, these were his next setup. I want to get back to a comfortable ride, even if that means going back to close to stock ride height. I ended up raising my coilovers anyway to get more travel. 

I got these from Tracy at Performance Shock in CA. They were easy to work with and did not have any other suspension package at any price that they thought would be better. These were ordered from Sweden and arrived in about 3 weeks. Overall quality is very high. Unlike the PSS10s, which I could barely budge at the lowest damping setting, these move pretty easily and smoothly on compression and rebound. 

Just a little tease for right now. Not sure when I will have the chance to get these installed. 


























Here is the parts list for the TT/Passat conversion. I could not find used TT spindles and didn't want to deal with what I hear are issues with the tie rod ends not being long enough...

[edit: I have since gone all-in with TT wheel bearing housings at all 4 wheels. Details starting on page 5 in this thread.]


Passat spindles (B6)
3C0 407 253 F Left
3C0 407 254 F Right

8J0-498-621 (Part Number Change) - might need 2 $154.80 each (Not included with spindle)

Control arms (need 2 Same part # left and right): 
8J0 407 151 D $284.40 each

Ball Joints (need one each): 
8J0 407 365 $118.80
8J0 407 366 $118.80

Ball Joint Nuts
N 103 320 02 - need 6 $0.66 each
N 909 429 01 - need 2 $1.08 each

Ball Joint Bolt Stud Brackets:
8J0 407 175 $17.70
8J0 407 176 $17.70

Bolt for Rear Bracket to sub-frame
N 105 797 02 - need 4 $1.44 each

Bolt for Rear Bracket to frame
N 908 235 01 - need 2 $1.62 each

Bolt for Front Bracket- horizontal
N 101 410 03 - need 2 $3.60 each

12 Point Axel Bolts 
WHT 002 795 - need 2 $3.60 each


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## slowandlow (Sep 9, 2002)

opcorn:


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

JRutter said:


> My suspension progression has been S-line stock -> Euro S-line springs on stock dampers -> Bilstein PSS10 -> Ohlins R&T with Euro springs. I did like a lot of aspects of the Bilsteins, but they are just a little too harsh for me on uneven pavement around town (frost heaved concrete streets especially). This seems to be a characteristic of most monotube shocks.
> 
> I first heard about the Ohlins from ryeboy on the R32 forum, who got linear springs and a Ground Control conversion kit for height adjustment. Then when I spent some time at VND Motorsport up in BC, I got to talking about suspension with the owner, Shawn. He has tried 2 or 3 different setups on his R32, springs, PSS10, KW V3, and I forget what else. He said that he was not satisfied with any of them and based on rides in other Ohlins prepped cars, these were his next setup. I want to get back to a comfortable ride, even if that means going back to close to stock ride height. I ended up raising my coilovers anyway to get more travel.
> 
> ...


 Can't wait to see this setup and I volunteer to help with the install.


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

ceese said:


> Can't wait to see this setup and I volunteer to help with the install.


 x2 

but these look too shiny and nice to install in a dirty old car. You should just put them in a glass case and hang them in the living room 

:laugh:


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## krazyboi (May 19, 2004)

opcorn:

:beer:

:thumbup:


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## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

what springs are you pairing with these?


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Subaruski1 said:


> what springs are you pairing with these?


 euro s-line for the 3.2


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## tp.wannabe.s3 (May 21, 2010)

are these lighter than stock?


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Not lighter from what I remember.


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## Maitre Absolut (Aug 5, 2009)

ohlins = baller


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## Rogerthat (Oct 23, 2005)

For 3.2, I can't relate.


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

I can.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Rogerthat said:


> For 3.2, I can't relate.


 All Mk5. You just pick the appropriate springs.


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

Are you going to have your spring rates measured before you install?


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## punkstarkitch (Nov 20, 2005)

How much are these? They must be a lot, I want some Ohlins forks for my Ducati, but they're over 2k!


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

I asked about getting the springs dynoed, but apparently, they don't have a rig that will do progressive spring rates accurately 

Under $2k shipped, with one free revalve if they don't match the springs (unlikely).


-JR


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

JRutter said:


> I asked about getting the springs dynoed, but apparently, they don't have a rig that will do progressive spring rates accurately
> 
> Under $2k shipped, with one free revalve if they don't match the springs (unlikely).
> 
> ...


 hmm... interested to hear how she rides/handles. 
remember, these ohlins are tailored for stock MKV GTI. Our A3 3.2's are 600lb heavier, and our stock springs are 260(+/-)lb/in F and 300 lb/in R, 
compared to GTI @ 150-180 F and 180 R

I'd hang on to that free revalve coupon... in case the adjustment knobs dont get you where you need to be.:thumbup:


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

The R32 guy who has them paired with stiffer linear springs is running them at just under 1/2 of full stiff, so it should be great with the OEM euros. Definitely good to have that service on tap though!


-JR


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

JRutter said:


> I asked about getting the springs dynoed, but apparently, they don't have a rig that will do progressive spring rates accurately
> 
> Under $2k shipped, with one free revalve if they don't match the springs (unlikely).
> 
> ...


.... aren't Euro S-line springs linear?


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

Our 3.2 suspensions are UA9 so, are which ones are the euros, do you suppose?










2004-2012 A3 [8P] (UA0 UA4) Normal Suspension 
2004-2012 A3 [8P] (UA1 UA5 UA9) Sports Suspension 
2004-2012 A3 [8P] (UA2) Offroad Suspension 
2004-2012 A3 [8P] (UA3 UB3) Sports Suspension Quattro GmbH 
2004-2012 A3 [8P] (UA6) Sports Suspension Audi Magnetic Ride (AMR) 
2006-2012 A3 [8P] (UA7) Sports Suspension S3 Audi Magnetic Ride (AMR) 
2004-2012 A3 [8P] (UB2) Sports Suspension RS 3 
2006-2012 A3 [8P] (UB5) Sports Suspension S3

Slightly off topic, (sorry JR)


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

They look almost identical to the springs that came on the car. So I assumed that they were just a tad lower and stiffer. That is how I remember them anyway. I don't have the invoice here with me to see what the P/Ns are.


-JR


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

JRutter said:


> They look almost identical to the springs that came on the car. So I assumed that they were just a tad lower and stiffer. That is how I remember them anyway. I don't have the invoice here with me to see what the P/Ns are.
> 
> 
> -JR


just wondering how many tads stiffer. I think low is 1/2" +/- based on all the old threads. 
But, according to TechEd's posts the eruo spec springs on the GTI and Golf R and MKV R32 have the same rate, but slightly lower static height.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Tyrol Mike will test springs, so I am planning to send him mine before I do the install. He has a basic jig and just gets 3 data points at 1", 2", and 3" of compression.


-JR


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

IIRC, my car dropped 5/8" in front and the back was pretty much unchanged for height. Compared to 2007 S- Line springs.


-JR


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

JRutter said:


> Tyrol Mike will test springs, so I am planning to send him mine before I do the install. He has a basic jig and just gets 3 data points at 1", 2", and 3" of compression.
> 
> 
> -JR


thats great! post up the data, when you get it! :thumbup:


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Pulled out my original springs and the Euro springs from storage and cleaned them up to send to Tyrol Mike. Here are some comparison pics and basic info. Note: length and outside diameter is from a tape measure, so may not be as precise as the last significant digit indicates. Coil count and wire diameter should be very close.

US Front: Red/Pink/Pink/Pink, 12.375" x 5.75" OD, 5.25 coils @ 0.519" thick

Euro Front: Green/Gray/Blue/Blue, 10.25" x 5.9" OD, 4.75 coils @ 0.569" thick

US Rear: Green/Green/Blue/Blue/Blue, 12.5" x 4.75" OD, 7.6 coils @ 0.531" thick

Euro Rear: Brown/Gray/Gray/Gray, 10.625" x 4.68", 7.5 coils @ 0.555" thick


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

:thumbup: (see my request for outside dia. data on MKV R32 thread) 

just went out and checked color code: 

For my stock USA 2006 3.2Q, Its different than your '07 
Front: Grey x3 and one Green dot, Rear: Blue x3 + Orange x2 dots 

Has anyone EVER figured out this damn color code system??


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Added the OD info above. I hope to get these sent off by the end of the week.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

True Ducaudi suspension - I bet that's going to be a great setup. Anyone know where you can get a set of the Euro springs?


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

I ordered mine through the dealer. There must be some used out there though.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

In round numbers:

S-Line F = 180 lb/in
Euro F = 280 lb/in

S-Line R = 250 lb/in
Euro R = 330 lb/in


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

JRutter said:


> In round numbers:
> 
> S-Line F = 180 lb/in
> Euro F = 280 lb/in
> ...


Seems like a big difference from US spec - right around 35% stiffer rate in the front and 25% in the rear. Do you remember what they were like when you installed them with your OEM shocks originally? Big difference in handling in body roll over the US spec?

I wonder why the % difference between the front and rear.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

I remember them being firmer, but the ride was still comfortable. The damping was not the greatest on stock shocks though. It cornered flatter than stock, but still had that compliance in corners that you want for better traction. 

I learned from SilverSquirrel that in 2006, when the A3 first shipped to NA, the springs were almost identical to the Euro rates and the dampers were valved to match. They changed that spec before the model year even ended though, in favor of softer rates.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

Any info on the R32 springs? Are they close to the Euro A3 3.2 springs? I see practically every R32 dood selling their spring, but practically no Euro A3 3.2 springs around


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

LWNY said:


> Any info on the R32 springs? Are they close to the Euro A3 3.2 springs? I see practically every R32 dood selling their spring, but practically no Euro A3 3.2 springs around


according to the sources on the MKV R32 forum, R32 springs test out identical to JRUTTER's stock 2007 US 3.2, 180F/250R 

coincidence? I dont think so.


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

ceese said:


> I wonder why the % difference between the front and rear.


short answer: front of car is heavier, with struts, and rear is lighter with multilink.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...pec-thread&p=79110435&viewfull=1#post79110435


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

SilverSquirrel said:


> short answer: front of car is heavier, with struts, and rear is lighter with multilink.
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...pec-thread&p=79110435&viewfull=1#post79110435


That's pretty cool - gotta love physics.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

SilverSquirrel said:


> according to the sources on the MKV R32 forum, R32 springs test out identical to JRUTTER's stock 2007 US 3.2, 180F/250R
> 
> coincidence? I dont think so.


so the R32 should ride even higher, given its lighter weight?


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Unless they are shorter.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

it could be, but nobody ever measured the heights of the R32 springs?


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

LWNY said:


> it could be, but nobody ever measured the heights of the R32 springs?


Plenty of R32 owners have, im sure. Someone would have to put them on their a3 3.2 to see the height on our cars, however. but if you know the weight difference and f/r weight distribution, you can do the math.

Or find someone with an R32, and measure the FTG empty vs with a driver and a back seat passenger. I dont think it will be much.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Counting down to install. Should be done by the weekend. Of course, we could always just shear off an axle bolt and work on that the whole time . . .


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

I'd recommend putting in some powerflex bushings.

http://www.avenueautosport.com/Powerflex-Audi-A3-2006_p_951.html

#2

Probably wouldn't do #1 since those TT arms have new bushings.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

crew219 said:


> I'd recommend putting in some powerflex bushings.
> 
> http://www.avenueautosport.com/Powerflex-Audi-A3-2006_p_951.html
> 
> ...


Thought about it, but I'm tired of the feel of the poly in the suspension. I have Whiteline in there now.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

JRutter said:


> Thought about it, but I'm tired of the feel of the poly in the suspension. I have Whiteline in there now.


Hmm didn't notice much difference in ride comfort when I replaced those. Did you do other bushings at the same time? I'm told that the rear suspension bushings are the ones that really affect ride comfort


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Maybe it is the synergy of everything, but I get distinctive transmission of every little road imperfection and bump with the setup that is on the car now. The back mounts on the TT arms are solid, so hopefully movement in general will still be firm, but get more dampening from the rubber. I could always go back and do poly on the front pivots.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

JRutter said:


> Maybe it is the synergy of everything, but I get distinctive transmission of every little road imperfection and bump with the setup that is on the car now. The back mounts on the TT arms are solid, so hopefully movement in general will still be firm, but get more dampening from the rubber. I could always go back and do poly on the front pivots.


isn't there something about how the TT bushing housings don't bolt up to the A3 subframe? IIRC you would have to press out those bushings and put them in your OEM housings.

Not 100% sure, just trying to go off what I remember reading.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

That is right - you do have to press them out. I did see one GTI guy modify the mounting holes on the TT bracket, but it looks to me like the geometry would change for the worse.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

This is the most positive that we could get the camber. Option to go past -2, but keeping it real for tire wear. The camber curve should be improved as well, with the slightly higher ride height that I got going back to OEM plus type springs. Feels like it is carving turns nicely now. :thumbup:


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Any pics of the ride height?


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Back to 4x4 mode! :vampire: So much more comfortable though. IIRC, the springs settled a bit last time.

I still have spacers on the front wheels. They are poking a little now, even with the wider fenders, so I will probably be taking them off.


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

JRutter said:


> Back to 4x4 mode! :vampire: So much more comfortable though. IIRC, the springs settled a bit last time.
> 
> I still have spacers on the front wheels. They are poking a little now, even with the wider fenders, so I will probably be taking them off.


waiting for review......opcorn:


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

How's the understeer?


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

SilverSquirrel said:


> waiting for review......opcorn:


 I will have a much better idea after my track days next weekend. The ride height and compliance are very promising for high speed cornering. It still feels like it corners pretty flat. There is more squat in the rear on takeoffs. But I have not touched the damper adjustments yet. They need to be firmed up for sure.



ceese said:


> How's the understeer?


Greatly reduced. It's like skiing or boarding on edge rather than sliding. With my force of habit steering inputs, on corners/speeds where I was right on line before, I find myself moving to the inside. So that tells me that I can easily keep more speed through turns. Not sure yet how it will be getting back on throttle. The roads have been pretty wet here lately. I will definitely push it at the track to see where the new limits are.


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

how is it on broken pavement, bad city roads, etc, compared to the PSS10 setup, as a first impression?

Sounds like you have fun weekend or two ahead of you!


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

SilverSquirrel said:


> how is it on broken pavement, bad city roads, etc, compared to the PSS10 setup, as a first impression?
> 
> Sounds like you have fun weekend or two ahead of you!


No comparison - with this heavy car, the Bilsteins were pretty jarring even on the softest setting (where they would bottom out onto the bump stops on big bumps. These feel like slightly firm OEM where the dampers are set right now.

I did have to run out for a second and found that on cold tires and wet road, it will still understeer under throttle. Not a magic bullet for poor driving technique.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

JRutter said:


> No comparison - with this heavy car, the Bilsteins were pretty jarring even on the softest setting (where they would bottom out onto the bump stops on big bumps. These feel like slightly firm OEM where the dampers are set right now.
> 
> I did have to run out for a second and found that on cold tires and wet road, it will still understeer under throttle. Not a magic bullet for poor driving technique.


JR, now you've had a chance to hammer a bit on these down in Portland are you going to write up a more detailed review. Curious to hear your results.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

I am still not 100% set up as far as damping adjustments. There are 30 "clicks" of adjustability. Right now, I am at 8 clicks from full stiff up front and 12 clicks from full stiff in back. I like to run my street settings at the track, since I'm not racing or anything. 

The track is a tough comparison, because I think that that is where the Bilsteins really shone. First, some random thoughts:

I don't know very much about shocks, really, but my impression is that the PSS10s have a higher pressure gas charge than the Ohlins. I could barely budge them by hand when they were off the car, they were so stiff. The Ohlins were much easier to compress. Ever play basketball with an overinflated ball vs one that is pumped up just right? So I think that with the Bilsteins, you feel the (stiff) damper more, and with the Ohlins, you feel the springs more. The valving on the Ohlins feels very fluid. 

The actual spring rates between these two setups are very close. One difference is that the suspension height and travel is greater on the Euro springs. You can run lowering springs with the Ohlins, no problem. You can also opt for a coilover conversion kit from Ground Control with custom spring rates and lengths. Just looking at the number of dead coils on the Bilsteins when set up for my heavy car, there is easily another 2 inches of travel now even though the car is only 3/4" higher. On a lighter chassis, like FWD or even the 2.0 Quattro, the Bilsteins would be in a happier spot.

In terms of performance, like I mentioned, the PSS10s love the high speed track environment. I did feel a sensation of more body roll with them though, probably because of the lower stance. But they soaked up pavement transitions really well. At PIR, the 3rd corner in particular is a good test. You are full throttle in third accelerating out of a left and hit a bump followed by entry into an off-camber corner going right. If you lift, you really upset the balance and are headed off track. I remember nailing that corner hard last year, and even adding an apex curbing hit had no issues. This year, the chassis felt less balanced in the early sessions, so I added stiffness up front, which brought it back some. Having only had this new suspension for 2 weeks, I need to get it fine tuned before my next track day.

After that one adjustment, the car did well all day. I am doing more trail braking and the back end is lively, but controllable. Remembering that RS3/135is video, I was laughing to myself while going hard through a long sweeping decreasing radius turn in 4th with the tires protesting and just throttle steering the tail end through. What understeer? 

Anyway, I think that proper spring rate will be important to get the most out of these dampers. For the street - they are much more comfortable than my last setup. I have not bottomed out at all, and can pull out of gas station ramps, etc. without scraping. Comfortable and more quiet on uneven pavement. On the highway, you can sense the expansion joints, but not feel or hear them as much. Watching my headlight beam on signs and trailers, etc., the motion over bumps seems very controlled. I tend to use this as a gauge to see how close to critical damping I am. 

Cosmetically, I may eventually want to get the coilover conversion, but for now, going into winter, the height is great. I hope that this writeup helps. The more I play with this stuff, the more obvious it becomes that the suspension as a whole works together and changing one thing affects the feel of everything. If anyone has specific questions, let me know.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Reviving an old thread 

A company called H2Sport has developed a coilover kit based around revalved Ohlins utilizing a linear spring. I have an email in to them and am waiting to hear back. 

I'm guessing that for the track this would be an ideal set up but a daily driver is probably better served with a progressive spring for comfort. On the flip side this might be the way to go. Get something with stiffer handling characteristics and then try out softer springs until you get the performance/ comfort characteristics you're looking for.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Worth a read: http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56171 

Not very impressed with the way they don't address the issue of the springs rubbing on the threaded collars. The hardware also seems to be rather expensive given that they don't revalve the dampers and the other bits can be had elsewhere for less. 

For $3500, I'd expect a lot more . . . they should at least include the camber plates. I'd wait for 034's Ohlins based coilover kit.


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

crew219 said:


> . I'd wait for 034's Ohlins based coilover kit.


 
link to info?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

SilverSquirrel said:


> link to info?


 http://forums.quattroworld.com/tt2/msgs/27326.phtml


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## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

crew219 said:


> http://forums.quattroworld.com/tt2/msgs/27326.phtml


 Will it work for the A3 though... Hmm might have to save up a bit more...Assuming they can be set for the 3.2 as well.


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## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

Side note... I Effing hate Quattro worlds forum set up.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Ponto said:


> Will it work for the A3 though... Hmm might have to save up a bit more...Assuming they can be set for the 3.2 as well.


 Lol, yes


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## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

crew219 said:


> Lol, yes


 Wasn't sure. I am still on the learning side of A3 stuff.


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## dustinouch (Oct 12, 2010)

crew219 said:


> Worth a read: http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56171
> 
> Not very impressed with the way they don't address the issue of the springs rubbing on the threaded collars. The hardware also seems to be rather expensive given that they don't revalve the dampers and the other bits can be had elsewhere for less.
> 
> For $3500, I'd expect a lot more . . . they should at least include the camber plates. I'd wait for 034's Ohlins based coilover kit.


 That was my thread. 

If I'm honest I was a little disappointed that H2 wasn't going to replace the springs and threaded collars but I was impressed with how quickly Tom came up with a solution. Also keep in mind if H2 had purchased a new set of springs from Eibach with the same larger diameter spring coil the rubbing issues may not be remedied. I don't think it's realistic to have someone mic each spring to see if it was built to the original spec. Is it the perfect solution? No but I'm still happy with the purchase. 

Agree with you on the camber plates comment, for the price of the kit it should definitely be included. 

I think that 034 pic is the Ohlins/PSI kit, heard its going to be $7100 
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178735&page=3 

Part of the reason these kits are so expensive Ohlins doesn't have a lot of margin for dealers. In the example of the H2 kit you're basically buying a $2000 damper at full retail plus all the add-ons.


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## SoSoA3 (Sep 10, 2012)

It's weird that the ohlins didn't come with camber plates. I had the dfv coilovers on my previous car a Acura RSX and they came with camber plates and nothing rubbed on anything... 

























Damn European cars with their intricate suspension geometry  but I can truly say that the dfv coils were the best riding coilovers I have ever driven on. Very streetable on low damper settings, and on track settings...well you already know how ohlins performs on the track.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

SoSoA3 said:


> It's weird that the ohlins didn't come with camber plates. I had the dfv coilovers on my previous car a Acura RSX and they came with camber plates and nothing rubbed on anything...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 ^^ Are those the DFVs from your Acura? 

I hadn't realized until yesterday that Stasis relased a coilover kit for the R32 using Ohlins dampners as I think all their coilover kits do. At a couple grand less than the $7k 034 kit and even at the same price this would be my choice if it wasn't more than my current suspension budget. 

http://www.3zero3motorsports.com/st...nsion/stasis-vw-r32-motorsport-suspension-kit 












One thing I've noticed is that everyone is using linear springs for the Ohlins even for road/track setups. This seems contrary to road comfort or are these dampners that good?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

ceese said:


> ^^ Are those the DFVs from your Acura?
> 
> I hadn't realized until yesterday that Stasis relased a coilover kit for the R32 using Ohlins dampners as I think all their coilover kits do. At a couple grand less than the $7k 034 kit and even at the same price this would be my choice if it wasn't more than my current suspension budget.
> 
> ...


 MKIV ≠ MKV 

Stasis also uses a lower line of Ohlins dampers.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

crew219 said:


> MKIV ≠ MKV
> 
> Stasis also uses a lower line of Ohlins dampers.


 
Missed that but apparently Ohlins has released a coilover for the MKV and MKVI. Haven't found any reviews on it yet though.

Apparently have a spring rate of 400lbs in the front and 342 in the rear. I'll probably go with the current dampners since this is quite a bit stiffer ride than I want. 

European sales link - VW SMI10

Product info link
.pdf not a lot of info 

http://www.roadandtrackbyohlins.com/


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

ceese said:


> Missed that but apparently Ohlins has released a coilover for the MKV and MKVI. Haven't found any reviews on it yet though.
> 
> Apparently have a spring rate of 400lbs in the front and 342 in the rear. I'll probably go with the current dampners since this is quite a bit stiffer ride than I want.
> 
> ...


 
Awesome, I wonder how much it'll cost over here.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

crew219 said:


> Awesome, I wonder how much it'll cost over here.


 
Just got off the phone with Ohlins = $3,405.00

PSI already has them on their site but they won't be available until June.
http://performanceshock.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_112_130_144&products_id=1322


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

ceese said:


> Just got off the phone with Ohlins = $3,405.00
> 
> PSI already has them on their site but they won't be available until June.
> http://performanceshock.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_112_130_144&products_id=1322


 Seems like a better option than H2S kit. No dealing with coilover sleeve to spring clearance issues. Spring rates are also higher than the H2S kit


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

I've been on the phone with PSI for the past half hour. Very helpful. The coil kit is going to be lower and stiffer. Options for the existing kit seem pretty limited from a spring perspective. The stiffest spring rates seem to be the European S-Line and ground control creates a bunch of other issues.


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## dustinouch (Oct 12, 2010)

I'm curious if these are just VWMS100 with springs, sleeves and thrust washers or are actually re-valved units. 



crew219 said:


> Seems like a better option than H2S kit. *No dealing with coilover sleeve to spring clearance issues*. Spring rates are also higher than the H2S kit


 We'll see when they come out. They are both use Eibach springs. But it's nice everything is from Ohlins, warranty work should be easier too. 

Going lower is nice too. Wish I would've known about these before buying mine :banghead:


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## dustinouch (Oct 12, 2010)

Actually it looks like they are just the VWSM100 with hardware, hopefully the add-ons will be available separately.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

dustinouch said:


> I'm curious if these are just VWMS100 with springs, sleeves and thrust washers or are actually re-valved units.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 It looks as if the VWMS100 has a sleeve for the tie rod end welded into the shock body whereas the VWMS110 has the tab for the tie rod end welded directly onto the shock body. 

The VWMS110 also has the threads for the spring seats cut into the shock body whereas the H2S is a sleeve that goes over the shock body. I think the issues with the spring contact won't be present on the Ohlins kit. 

Not trying to come down hard on H2S, just that for the price, I'd go with the manufacturer supplied kit. 

How are the rear perches holding up? Still easily adjustable? I remember reading some concern regarding the durability of the teflon ball being used in that application. 

Dave


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

crew219 said:


> It looks as if the VWMS100 has a sleeve for the tie rod end welded into the shock body whereas the VWMS110 has the tab for the tie rod end welded directly onto the shock body.
> 
> The VWMS110 also has the threads for the spring seats cut into the shock body whereas the H2S is a sleeve that goes over the shock body. I think the issues with the spring contact won't be present on the Ohlins kit.
> 
> ...


 
I'd definitely go with the Ohlins kit over the H2S. From what Ohlins and PSI told me the coilovers will be a different dampner or at least valved a lot more aggressively than the stand alone dampner kit and most likely a little lower. For my applications, daily driving/ocassional track day and closer to stock ride height, I'm still leaning towards the stand alone kit though as long as I can find a set of springs that meet my requirements and that seems to be my problem four long phone calls later and I'm still scratching my head when it comes to springs.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

ceese said:


> I've been on the phone with PSI for the past half hour. Very helpful. The coil kit is going to be lower and stiffer. Options for the existing kit seem pretty limited from a spring perspective. The stiffest spring rates seem to be the European S-Line and ground control creates a bunch of other issues.


 What other issues with ground control? Or do mean the added complexity of specifying custom rates and lengths? I'm leaning towards the GC kit and a revalve for the VWMS100. I would prefer the rebound to change more than compression with adjustments, if that is possible. In the mean time, I'm trying to figure out a way to get stiffer springs onto the PSS10s so that I can send the Ohlins to PSI...


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

JRutter said:


> What other issues with ground control? Or do mean the added complexity of specifying custom rates and lengths? I'm leaning towards the GC kit and a revalve for the VWMS100. I would prefer the rebound to change more than compression with adjustments, if that is possible. In the mean time, I'm trying to figure out a way to get stiffer springs onto the PSS10s so that I can send the Ohlins to PSI...


 Apparently you have to modify the strut housing for the perches or you end up reducing the stroke length of the shock. Heard the same story from both the Ohlins rep and PSI. 

Tell you what JR, why don't you go with the Ohlins coilovers and I'll buy your current dampners and Eurosprings . I'll pay you close to what you paid for them.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

If I pay that much for coilovers, I want separate compression and rebound adjustment! 

Trying to figure out what the issue with stroke length would be, I must be missing something. Did they explain it? Ryeboy seems very happy with his setup.  He specified springs to get full travel (perches are almost all the way down to hit just lower than stock ride height on the R32).

[edit: I guess they mean that the spring adapters up at the strut mount decrease travel slightly]


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

JRutter said:


> If I pay that much for coilovers, I want separate compression and rebound adjustment!
> 
> Trying to figure out what the issue with stroke length would be, I must be missing something. Did they explain it? Ryeboy seems very happy with his setup. He specified springs to get full travel (perches are almost all the way down to hit just lower than stock ride height on the R32).
> 
> [edit: I guess they mean that the spring adapters up at the strut mount decrease travel slightly]


 
Yes they were talking about the decrease in travel. Don't know if it's that big of a deal but I suppose it could hinder performance and comfort slightly.

The coilover kit is also going to offer both rebound and compression adjustability. They appear to be completely different dampners than the standalone dampner kit.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

The one you have linked above from the PSI site is the same damper: 1KAXX - single adjustment rebound and compression. Is there another one? There seems to be a number of Ohlins based motorsport setups in the works. 034 is doing one with remote reservoirs, etc. for big bucks.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

JRutter said:


> The one you have linked above from the PSI site is the same damper: 1KAXX - single adjustment rebound and compression. Is there another one? There seems to be a number of Ohlins based motorsport setups in the works. 034 is doing one with remote reservoirs, etc. for big bucks.


 
You're right it's matched steps for rebound and dampening.

Just got off the phone with my mechanic. After a test drive and once he got it in the air it turns out there were some obvious issues with the repairs to my car so I'm putting it back to stock (including suspension and wheels) for the moment until I can get those and some warranty issues addressed by the dealer.


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## usaf-lt-g (May 16, 2012)

Gentleman,

word on the street is that these Ohlins Struts / Shocks fit the VW Passat CC VR6 4Motion model as well as it's pretty much the same as the r32.

My question is... am I supossed to order the: VWS MI00 model series, or is their a newer model # I'm supossed to be using?

Also, if I'm replacing the OEM struts / shock with the Ohlins and not looking for any lowering effect, just comfy ride. Are there any adjustments I need to make to the bleeder adjustment or pre-load adjuster?


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

usaf-lt-g said:


> Gentleman,
> 
> word on the street is that these Ohlins Struts / Shocks fit the VW Passat CC VR6 4Motion model as well as it's pretty much the same as the r32.
> 
> ...


I don't know anything about the CC but if it takes the same part numbers for other suspension setups as the MKV R32 they should work. Also, the VWS MI00 are no longer available anywhere from what I hear. Ohlins is coming out with a coilover kit based on the dampners that will be released in the next few weeks (no later than end of June from what I hear) the part number is VWS MI10. Only problem is that it's $1000 more than the dampners were with a groundcontrol setup. On the plus side there will be fewer issues with it though. Won't have to guess at spring rates and heights, dust covers will stay put and greater adjustibility without affecting the stroke lengths.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

ceese said:


> I don't know anything about the CC but if it takes the same part numbers for other suspension setups as the MKV R32 they should work. *Also, the VWS MI00 are no longer available anywhere from what I hear.* Ohlins is coming out with a coilover kit based on the dampners that will be released in the next few weeks (no later than end of June from what I hear) the part number is VWS MI10. Only problem is that it's $1000 more than the dampners were with a groundcontrol setup. On the plus side there will be fewer issues with it though. Won't have to guess at spring rates and heights, dust covers will stay put and greater adjustibility without affecting the stroke lengths.


Interesting . . . I wonder if it means that the H2sport offering is no longer available. 

Dave


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

crew219 said:


> Interesting . . . I wonder if it means that the H2sport offering is no longer available.
> 
> Dave



I would assume that it's not but you could always call them. The Ohlins coils will be about the same price so I don't know why people would order from H2sport. As far as I know I just ordered the last available set of the standalone dampners and I don't even have confirmation on mine yet. I'll be pairing it with a ground control setup. 

Front 400lb 6" spring
Rear 450lb 8" spring


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

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DAMPER DAMPER DAMPER
DAMPER DAMPER DAMPER
DAMPER DAMPER DAMPER
DAMPER DAMPER DAMPER
DAMPER DAMPER DAMPER
DAMPER DAMPER DAMPER
DAMPER DAMPER DAMPER
DAMPER DAMPER DAMPER
DAM PER
DAM!
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

ceese said:


> I would assume that it's not but you could always call them. The Ohlins coils will be about the same price so I don't know why people would order from H2sport. As far as I know I just ordered the last available set of the standalone dampners and I don't even have confirmation on mine yet. I'll be pairing it with a ground control setup.
> 
> Front 400lb 6" spring
> Rear 450lb 8" spring


Is PSI going to revalve them for you or are you sticking with the stock settings?


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

I know two different people who have the GC conversion with 450 front and 350 rear who seem to like the combo. jbrehm went with 450 F / 400 R at PSI's recommendation. Revalve might not be needed with stiffer spring rates?


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

crew219 said:


> Is PSI going to revalve them for you or are you sticking with the stock settings?



Going with stock for now. Ground control said that the R32 guys are running them 470lb 5.5475" front and 380lb 8.43" rear and the Ohlins coilovers are going to be 350lb front and 400lb rear. 

I am tempted to go 375 front and 425 rear.

This setup apparently lends itself to a lot of flexibility since I've seen setups range from 7" front with 10" rear springs to 5.5" front with 8" rears.

Now I just need to find camber plates although I'm thinking the way to go is to design my own fixed position plate and have it machined.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

JRutter said:


> I know two different people who have the GC conversion with 450 front and 350 rear who seem to like the combo. jbrehm went with 450 F / 400 R at PSI's recommendation. Revalve might not be needed with stiffer spring rates?



JR what are your thoughts - the R32 guys are running softer rates in the rear to adjust for oversteer bias, right? I am planning to stick with Audi's approach of stiffer in the rear to adjust for our understeer. I am however new to all of this - opinions?


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

I honestly don't know what to think


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Just a teaser dropped the car off for installation today.


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

Congrats! That looks too nice and shiny to bolt to the underside of a car! 

My money says you leave the car in the garage on rainy days and ride your bike

All this strut talk is making me itchy. I have the new Konis and 034 mounts ready to install, as soon as I have a rare free day.:banghead:


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

SilverSquirrel said:


> Congrats! That looks too nice and shiny to bolt to the underside of a car!
> 
> My money says you leave the car in the garage on rainy days and ride your bike
> 
> All this strut talk is making me itchy. I have the new Konis and 034 mounts ready to install, as soon as I have a rare free day.:banghead:



I won't be able to see them but every corner I go around and pot hole I drive through I'll know they're there. 

I'm just happy to be getting that STs off of my car - they've been nothing but problems since they were installed.


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## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

ceese said:


> I won't be able to see them but every corner I go around and pot hole I drive through I'll know they're there.
> 
> I'm just happy to be getting that STs off of my car - they've been nothing but problems since they were installed.


Whats the word on them having to be rebuilt? Your Ohlins i mean, my buddy who runs them says they are more of a track application and he rebuilts his every year or two....


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Ponto said:


> Whats the word on them having to be rebuilt? Your Ohlins i mean, my buddy who runs them says they are more of a track application and he rebuilts his every year or two....


Any damper that is heavily tracked should be rebuilt every year or two.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

This explains the advantages of the Ohlins pretty well


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## dustinouch (Oct 12, 2010)

Ponto said:


> Whats the word on them having to be rebuilt? Your Ohlins i mean, my buddy who runs them says they are more of a track application and he rebuilts his every year or two....


PSI said if road conditions were good you could go ~25-30K between services althought 18K is recommended in the user manual. Cost is $160-200/shock/strut


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

JR, do you have a part list for the setup you used? Also, would the VWR springs for the A3 work? The european sport springs appear to be close to the same length, although based on what I read here, the VWR springs have an extra coil. Pretty soon I will be doing the suspension on my car, but I'm obviously new to this. Any advice you have based on your experience would be appreciated.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

VWR and Neuspeed would both be good options from what I've heard. No personal experience. Any OEM style spring will fit, but I would try to get the highest spring rates possible. The Ohlins dampers seem to do best (both comfort and performance) with stiffer springs.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Posted this up on the R32 suspension thread thought I'd share it here as well.

Ordering new springs for the front.

*current setup *
10" 350lb rear - perches are maxed all of the way down so there is no option to lower the rear but the spring rate works well.
7" 430lb front - suspension unloads over certain bumps and dips but the spring rate is good.

*The change up.*
If I can order the rear Ohlins springs they will give me the option to lower the rear up to 1.25" over where it sits now.

Fronts looking at a 6" 450lb spring up front and switching out the helpers with 150lb tenders that have a block height of 1.75" and I expect to be full drop on the perches to maintain my current ride height. Would love to find some 5.5" springs so it could be dropped a hair in the front.


The new brochure and installation instructions are out for the Ohlins threaded kit and they include spring lengths as well. Based off of what's there the dampners are the same size as the non-threaded kit. Also, contacted Ohlins and they are getting back to me on whether or not the springs can be ordered alone.

spring rates 

Front: 70 N/mm (399 lbs/in.) Rear: 60 N/mm (342 Lbs/in.)

The numbers below are length in mm so the rear spring is just under 9" and the front is about 8"


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## jbrehm (May 16, 2006)

JRutter said:


> I know two different people who have the GC conversion with 450 front and 350 rear who seem to like the combo. jbrehm went with 450 F / 400 R at PSI's recommendation. Revalve might not be needed with stiffer spring rates?



To be clear, I went against PSI's recommendation and got 400F/450R springs. I should have went much higher in the rear to get the natural frequencies in line, but I was swayed a bit by PSI before doing my own calcs. A 600lb/in spring in the rear is needed to get a wheel rate of 390lb/in, which brings the front and rear natural frequencies to slightly higher in the rear (really, you always want the rear suspension to have a tad higher NF since it hits the bump later than the front - about 10% more is good place to start).

That said, you have to consider the motion ratio of the damper, to stay in line with its damping capabilities. The motion ratio of the rear spring is 0.65; the motion ratio of the damper is about 0.82 IIRC. I contacted Ohlins, and they said that the front:rear damping abilities of the dampers in question were designed to duplicate the stock front:rear ratio. This means that, while the Ohlins can damp a maximum of about 450-500lb/in in the front, the rear should be able to handle up to about 700lb/in springs in the rear. I haven't tried a rear spring that high, but that figure of 450-500lb/in up front seems about right, as I am near the stiffest setting to have the damper control the spring effectively. I will still be revalving my Ohlins when I send them in for service.

The stock A3 3.2 spring rates are 180F/250R, giving a F:R ratio of 0.72, which puts the front and rear natural frequencies at almost exactly even. I plan on increasing the rear natural frequency just a tad, to help the car settle better over undulations, by running a 600lb/in rear spring. The 400lb/in front, and 600lb/in rear will give me natural frequencies of 1.96/2.06 (F/R), which approximates the stock F:R ratio. My car still understeers more than I'd like, and I'm hoping that that the increased rear wheel rate will get it perfect.

In conclusion, I'm sort of at a loss as to why everyone is running and/or recommending running such low wheel rates in the rear of this chassis. Has anyone tried a stiffer spring in the rear yet?


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

trying to keep understeer the boss perhaps.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

jbrehm said:


> To be clear, I went against PSI's recommendation and got 400F/450R springs. I should have went much higher in the rear to get the natural frequencies in line, but I was swayed a bit by PSI before doing my own calcs. A 600lb/in spring in the rear is needed to get a wheel rate of 390lb/in, which brings the front and rear natural frequencies to slightly higher in the rear (really, you always want the rear suspension to have a tad higher NF since it hits the bump later than the front - about 10% more is good place to start).
> 
> That said, you have to consider the motion ratio of the damper, to stay in line with its damping capabilities. The motion ratio of the rear spring is 0.65; the motion ratio of the damper is about 0.82 IIRC. I contacted Ohlins, and they said that the front:rear damping abilities of the dampers in question were designed to duplicate the stock front:rear ratio. This means that, while the Ohlins can damp a maximum of about 450-500lb/in in the front, the rear should be able to handle up to about 700lb/in springs in the rear. I haven't tried a rear spring that high, but that figure of 450-500lb/in up front seems about right, as I am near the stiffest setting to have the damper control the spring effectively. I will still be revalving my Ohlins when I send them in for service.
> 
> ...


I guess my car is one of the ones JRUTTER was referring to. 

I was tempted to go with a 1:1 spring rate ratio for front and rear, but as a newb to suspension design went with the suggestions of both Ground Control and PSI also Ohlins has a lower spring rate on their rear springs than their front for their sleeved version of these shocks and that's what helped make up my mind. No I wouldn't jump off a bridge just because everyone else was doing it - I'd wait to see if they killed themselves first then I'd do a back flip if they lived.

Overall I think the setup has worked really well especially over the [email protected] roads around my house but after driving on this setup for a while now can see how a stiffer spring rate in the rear could make a big difference with regards to performance driving especially if you are running a gen 2 haldex with better rear biased power.

I'm more than curious to hear about your results since that's closer to the direction I was tempted to go in originally.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

jbrehm said:


> To be clear, I went against PSI's recommendation and got 400F/450R springs.


Sorry I got that wrong. Good info - thanks!


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## jbrehm (May 16, 2006)

SilverSquirrel said:


> trying to keep understeer the boss perhaps.


I'm out to murder the boss. _Violently_.



Ceese, I just have too many things on the go right now, so I'll probably wait until Spring to swap in the 600lb/in springs in the rear. In a few weeks, I won't be seeing asphalt until about April anyways.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Went with 8" x 340 fronts and 8" x 400 rear springs on the GC kit. H2Sport ships 350/350 for the Golf/GTI Ohlins kit. Ohlins ships 400/342 for their Golf/GTI kit. I want to keep some comfort and predictable handling for other drivers in my car (and for my daily commute) and hope that my first choice will be close to getting the car neutral. TT spindles are here and will be going on at the same time, so I have high hopes. I have heard from someone else who did the swap that the spindles give you additional drop, so that's why I went with the 8" front spring. Hope the rear spring isn't too short...

Pics on how the TT spindles are different. Not super stoked on the longer steering point, but I have not heard anyone complain about it.










The hub is farther from the bottom of the strut for more track width. Brake mounts are identical.










[edit: the pics above were not mine, and must have been moved or deleted by whoever posted them originally]


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

JRutter said:


> Went with 8" x 340 fronts and 8" x 400 rear springs on the GC kit. H2Sport ships 350/350 for the Golf/GTI Ohlins kit. Ohlins ships 400/342 for their Golf/GTI kit. I want to keep some comfort and predictable handling for other drivers in my car (and for my daily commute) and hope that my first choice will be close to getting the car neutral. TT spindles are here and will be going on at the same time, so I have high hopes. I have heard from someone else who did the swap that the spindles give you additional drop, so that's why I went with the 8" front spring. Hope the rear spring isn't too short...
> 
> Pics on how the TT spindles are different. Not super stoked on the longer steering point, but I have not heard anyone complain about it.
> 
> ...


You won't have any problem with the rears being too low. That's what I'm running in the rear.

If you are going to wait a couple weeks to order and want to take my car out to see what you think of the rates let me know you are more than welcome. After waiting three months my new shock should be in next week so I'll be ready to roll within the next week or two. Planning on having Achtuning do the install this time. I'm pulling the entire suspension and reinstalling since I have a complete front and rear suspension refresh kit from ECS sitting in my hatch with everything from bolts to new strut mounts that are going on. I've decided to pull the camber plates since they turned out to be more trouble than they're worth - JBrehm said his failed quickly as well.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

ceese said:


> You won't have any problem with the rears being too low. That's what I'm running in the rear.
> 
> If you are going to wait a couple weeks to order and want to take my car out to see what you think of the rates let me know you are more than welcome. After waiting three months my new shock should be in next week so I'll be ready to roll within the next week or two. Planning on having Achtuning do the install this time. I'm pulling the entire suspension and reinstalling since I have a complete front and rear suspension refresh kit from ECS sitting in my hatch with everything from bolts to new strut mounts that are going on. I've decided to pull the camber plates since they turned out to be more trouble than they're worth - JBrehm said his failed quickly as well.


Good call on having Achtuning do everything. The springs, etc. are ordered. I'm thinking that they will be sellable if I decide to change them up later on. Bummer that the camber plates are not up to snuff. I am on the fence about the 034 top mounts. The rear trailing arm sphericals are getting squeaky, so I need to replace the bearings soon. Slippery slope!


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

I continue to be inspired by this thread. I ended up going with the bilstein B8 sprint shocks and struts, and while they don't compare to Ohlins, they are a really nice setup. I'm just at a point right now where I can't afford the cost of the ohlins.... not that they aren't worth it. But the reason I posted in here.... I agree that stiffer rear springs are probably a better option... in fact I'm looking into a set of the quattro GMbH rear springs to replace the VWR ones.... they are a bit stiffer, and should be closer in current ride height than the stock ones I had on my car, but I will have some rake going on once I do this.

Also, FWIW, the 034 strut mounts are definitely worth it if you're going through the trouble of taking out the strut anyway. I posted a link to a video in my thread where it compares the durometer of the stock mounts, the 034 mounts, and the TT mounts.


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## RedLineRob (Feb 8, 2009)

npace said:


> I continue to be inspired by this thread. I ended up going with the bilstein B8 sprint shocks and struts, and while they don't compare to Ohlins, they are a really nice setup. I'm just at a point right now where I can't afford the cost of the ohlins.... not that they aren't worth it. But the reason I posted in here.... I agree that stiffer rear springs are probably a better option... in fact I'm looking into a set of the quattro GMbH rear springs to replace the VWR ones.... they are a bit stiffer, and should be closer in current ride height than the stock ones I had on my car, but I will have some rake going on once I do this.
> 
> Also, FWIW, the 034 strut mounts are definitely worth it if you're going through the trouble of taking out the strut anyway. I posted a link to a video in my thread where it compares the durometer of the stock mounts, the 034 mounts, and the TT mounts.


which springs are you talking about? the RS3 ones?


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

RedLineRob said:


> which springs are you talking about? the RS3 ones?


No. SilverSquirrel posted this in post 20 in this thread, but here it is again:










2004-2012 A3 [8P] (UA0 UA4) Normal Suspension
2004-2012 A3 [8P] (UA1 UA5 UA9) Sports Suspension
2004-2012 A3 [8P] (UA2) Offroad Suspension
*2004-2012 A3 [8P] (UA3 UB3) Sports Suspension Quattro GmbH*
2004-2012 A3 [8P] (UA6) Sports Suspension Audi Magnetic Ride (AMR)
2006-2012 A3 [8P] (UA7) Sports Suspension S3 Audi Magnetic Ride (AMR)
2004-2012 A3 [8P] (UB2) Sports Suspension RS 3
2006-2012 A3 [8P] (UB5) Sports Suspension S3

In this case, I'm referring to the UA3 / UB3 spring codes listed above in bold italic, not the UB2 springs that came on the RS3. :thumbup:


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## RedLineRob (Feb 8, 2009)

Hey guys I found this website Site were you can look up Audi part numbers for USA EURO ASIA cars and its pretty spot on if you can read Audi part number codes

check it out
http://www.partsbase.org/audi/eu/


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

RedLineRob said:


> Hey guys I found this website Site were you can look up Audi part numbers for USA EURO ASIA cars and its pretty spot on if you can read Audi part number codes
> 
> check it out
> http://www.partsbase.org/audi/eu/


Good resource, thanks.

I thought that I was ready to roll on finishing the project with the GC kit and remaining TT parts (front and rear spindles and axles) but a leaky head gasket is delaying it. I also have some RacingBrake replacement rings for my Stoptech kit and found some lightly used Carbotech XP10 pads to try at the track. Will also be doing a stud conversion kit with 80mm Apex studs with a set of ball end and set of conical nuts to cover all of the wheel options, including up to 20mm spacers as needed. The inner tie rods are longer than the oem to work with max negative camber on the TT swivels. I have heard that the aluminum rear spindles increase track width (and I know that the TT front spindles will), so I picked up the TT axles front and rear to minimize any stretch that results.

Here is a teaser:


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

JRutter said:


> Good resource, thanks.
> 
> I thought that I was ready to roll on finishing the project with the GC kit and remaining TT parts (front and rear spindles and axles) but a leaky head gasket is delaying it. I also have some RacingBrake replacement rings for my Stoptech kit and found some lightly used Carbotech XP10 pads to try at the track. Will also be doing a stud conversion kit with 80mm Apex studs with a set of ball end and set of conical nuts to cover all of the wheel options, including up to 20mm spacers as needed. The inner tie rods are longer than the oem to work with max negative camber on the TT swivels. I have heard that the aluminum rear spindles increase track width (and I know that the TT front spindles will), so I picked up the TT axles front and rear to minimize any stretch that results.


Any updates on this? I'm about ready to swap in the passat spindles with the new struts when I get back to my car later in the year. Specifically, it looks like you re-used the stock hubs and bearings, is that correct, or did you get new ones? I'm looking to save money if I can, but I don't want to cut corners. Current bearings have about 20,000 miles, which to me seems pretty fresh. If I was at 60k I would replace them for sure, but I'm wondering if there's a consensus here on any of this. 

I'm also curious about the axle difference; when you do the swap can you snap a pic of the A3 axle side by side with the TT axle? 

Thanks.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Still not installed, but very close now. I discovered that the tapers on the spindle steering arm where the tie rod ends mount is a larger diameter on the TT spindles. So you need to use the TT tie rods (inner and outer, since the lengths are different on both). The next issue that this creates is that the steering rack ends are slightly different. The A3 inner tie rods have extended threads and the steering rack has recessed threads with about 1/4" of unthreaded hole before the female threads start. I finally found someone else who did the full conversion and he had to grind the ends of the steering rack to get them fully seated with enough threads engaged. The other option is a TT steering rack, but who knows what coding would be required and if the holes line up on the sub frame... So I still need to buy a set of TT tie rods and plan to modify my steering rack.

Anyway, the Passat spindles do not have this issue. Original tie rods will work. I got new bearings, since I had higher mileage. Ebay sometimes has new open box kits that are good quality like *** or Lemforder (sp?). Here is a pic of the driver side axle compared to the TT. The TT is wider by the same amount that the track width will increase when all is said and done.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Ok, cool, thanks. One thing at a time I guess. Ohlins are in the mail.... I found a lightly used set at a really great price that I couldn't pass up. I already have the passat control arms on the car with TT bushings pressed in. I'll probably go ahead and get the spindles and some fresh bearings while I'm at it... it will at least save time on the install. 
The full TT conversion looks like it should be quite beneficial.... and a lot of work. I commend you on your commitment to handling excellence. Be sure to keep us posted and let us know how it all works out.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Finally in the midst of getting the TT spindles installed. I went back and compared the stock spindle to the TT spindle because the steering arm length was bugging me. I turns out that when measured off of a plane from the center of the strut to the center of the ball joint, the TT arm is just 3/32" longer, nowhere near what I had read from other people.

I stuck a piece of 1/4" plywood in the strut clamp and aligned it with the ball joint to make a plane to measure from:








Note: this pic is just to show how it was measured, the results are in the next two pics.

Here is the stock spindle:









Here is the TT spindle:









So the only major issue left is that the tie rod taper on the end of the steering arm is larger diameter than the stock tie rod ball joint taper.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

The swap to TT tie rods is not simple. The inners are shorter, so you can't mix and match. The inners on the TT rods where they mate to the steering rack have shorther threads than the stock inners. The steering rack has an unthreaded section about 3/16" deep, so the shorter TT threads would only engage about 2 threads.

A3 steering rack ends:









One option is to replace the rack with a TT rack, but there are coding differences that I didn't want to dig into, not to mention the extra cost. The other option is to shorten the steering rack to put the threads closer to the ends. After kicking around a few options for doing this, I took a big breath and chucked a carbide tipped router bit into a drill. The bearing fit inside the threads and kept them from getting damaged. 









The end result was not bad: more or less squared off, with a nice even shoulder to register against the inner tie rod. I could not see any gap when the rod was tightened up, and we Loctited it in for good measure.









So now I am comfortable knowing that the tie rods won't get loose at precisely the wrong time.


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

I was going to say "no turning back now", but realized you could add a spacer to get the original set up back, if you needed to.

You are almost there!:thumbup:


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

This is good stuff. Way to push the envelope and get what you want without compromise. I ordered all the passat stuff because I'm too scared to do something like this. :beer:


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Isn't the loctite going to be an issue when you go for an alignment?


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

The loctite is only on the steering rack to inner ball joint. The inner to outer connection is normal with lock nut. 

Dave, do you have the TTRS alignment specs?


-JR


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

I was checking some info today and realized that I never fully explained why I was doing the TT suspension. 

- lighter weight, high strength aluminum wheel bearing housings at all 4 corners
- lighter weight and stiffer rubber bushings for the front control arm
- more and somewhat adjustable front camber with oem comfort
- lower front ball joint for raised roll center
- wider track width front and back

Here are some snips from the Audi TT Self Study Guide. They are nice because they reference the A3 directly.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

It's interesting that they have the control arm (wishbone) mounting on top of the ball joint instead of the other way around. But I guess that's how they achieve the lower ball joint position that the study guide talks about. (Well, that and the location on the spindle)

Thanks for posting the info. :beer:


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Sure thing. :beer:

The ball joint pivot location itself is what is important. The arm could be any shape or mounted anywhere and it wouldn't change anything. I have seen people install spacers to go between the ball joint and control arm mounted underneath thinking that it will help. But it doesn't do anything for the geometry.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Also forgot to say that I ended up with 340 lb x 8" springs up front and 350 lb x 10" springs in back. It would be nice to go slightly lower in front (adjusters are all the way down on the lighter passenger side). I could always just remove them and shim the heavy side with something. It feels good for daily driving, and with the higher roll center, I figured that stiffer springs up front would be overkill. Still playing with damper settings. Seems like just one click higher than for the Euro springs will be about right. I want to get some more track time to experiment with how the back end behaves, but I may end up going with a higher spring rate there, like jbrehm.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

JRutter said:


> Also forgot to say that I ended up with 340 lb x 8" springs up front and 350 lb x 10" springs in back. It would be nice to go slightly lower in front (adjusters are all the way down on the lighter passenger side). I could always just remove them and shim the heavy side with something. It feels good for daily driving, and with the higher roll center, I figured that stiffer springs up front would be overkill. Still playing with damper settings. Seems like just one click higher than for the Euro springs will be about right. I want to get some more track time to experiment with how the back end behaves, but I may end up going with a higher spring rate there, like jbrehm.


Is there any gap between the springs and strut mounts with 8" when the suspension is unloaded?


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Yes, less than an inch. But only if both sides are unloaded, like on jack stands. 


-JR

[edit] Jim, Here is how far up the adjuster had to go for the spring to seat up top - looks like 1/2" or so.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

A friend in another forum linked me to this article on suspension that has lots of good information for track enthusiasts. I will leave it here for future reference:

http://balancemotorsport.co.uk/suspension-choice-and-setup


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

JRutter said:


> Yes, less than an inch. But only if both sides are unloaded, like on jack stands.
> 
> 
> -JR
> ...


Look into some helper springs? 

http://eibach.com/global/en/motorsport/products/eibach-helper-system


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

crew219 said:


> Look into some helper springs?
> 
> http://eibach.com/global/en/motorsport/products/eibach-helper-system


Maybe. Not sure it is really an issue for me. I haven't felt anything clunky and if I jack up one side of the car, the sway bar keeps the spring tight against the strut mount. So both wheels would have to be off the ground for enough time that the damper fully extends...


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

JRutter said:


> Maybe. Not sure it is really an issue for me. I haven't felt anything clunky and if I jack up one side of the car, the sway bar keeps the spring tight against the strut mount. So both wheels would have to be off the ground for enough time that the damper fully extends...


I don't think you really need them, but if you want a set you can have mine since I don't plan on using them again (you'll need to pick up a set of perches for them though). I'm currently running without helpers and have about an inch when unloaded. When I reinstall my camber plates in the spring I'll reinstall my tenders since the plates are almost two inches shorter than strut mounts once installed.

Also, I have those 6" 400lb springs if you ever want to pick up a set of tenders and try a progressive set up.

I've managed to unload single wheels when I hit a bump followed by an immediate pot hole or a bad road tie. I believe the DSV opens all of the way up on the bump and then the weight of the wheel causes it to drop faster than the car since the car is still responding to the bump.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

ceese said:


> I don't think you really need them, but if you want a set you can have mine since I don't plan on using them again (you'll need to pick up a set of perches for them though). I'm currently running without helpers and have about an inch when unloaded. When I reinstall my camber plates in the spring I'll reinstall my tenders since the plates are almost two inches shorter than strut mounts once installed.
> 
> Also, I have those 6" 400lb springs if you ever want to pick up a set of tenders and try a progressive set up.


Are you staying with GC for camber plates? 

For springs, I may do some experimenting with the rates in back. I belatedly made a spreadsheet to look at suspension frequency and like Jeremy said earlier in the thread, the rear rates should theoretically be a lot higher.

I need to get back in for another alignment to see where I am now that the strut mounts are in correctly and I'm 1/2" lower. I got Tyrol subframe bushings for the rear subframe to try to get it centered, so I need to do them first.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

JRutter said:


> Are you staying with GC for camber plates?
> 
> For springs, I may do some experimenting with the rates in back. I belatedly made a spreadsheet to look at suspension frequency and like Jeremy said earlier in the thread, the rear rates should theoretically be a lot higher.
> 
> I need to get back in for another alignment to see where I am now that the strut mounts are in correctly and I'm 1/2" lower. I got Tyrol subframe bushings for the rear subframe to try to get it centered, so I need to do them first.


I am planning on sticking with the GC plates for now but need to have Queen City look at my unibody and solve my caster issue before I do anything else. 

I thought your car was pretty well balanced due to your rear sway and wider front. Won't varying the spring rates make it oversteer?


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

ceese said:


> I am planning on sticking with the GC plates for now but need to have Queen City look at my unibody and solve my caster issue before I do anything else.
> 
> I thought your car was pretty well balanced due to your rear sway and wider front. Won't varying the spring rates make it oversteer?


Gotcha. Hope they take care of the root cause for you.

I want to see how the car does with the current rates for sure. With the 400 F and 350 R, it still tended towards understeer. Have not done any speedy moves with the softer springs in front. Feels good though.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

I was just looking at this and realized the pic on page 5 included aluminum spindles for the rear. JR, you got a part number?


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## madmanmarz (Jul 19, 2015)

Ohlins is considered the top tier of aftermarket motorcycle suspension. Awesome stuff that is often a factory upgrade option.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

npace said:


> I was just looking at this and realized the pic on page 5 included aluminum spindles for the rear. JR, you got a part number?


Mine from the MK2 TT are 3C0 505 435 G left and 436 G right. 

Also found this info. from AudiMechanic in an R32 thread. Pretty sure they are same dimensions:

B6 passat and mk2 TT use part #3C0505433G left, 434G right; 4-motion/quattro. aluminum


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Bump from the dead. Were there any hurdles you had to go through to get the rear tt spindles on like the fronts, or do they just bolt up?


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

npace said:


> Bump from the dead. Were there any hurdles you had to go through to get the rear tt spindles on like the fronts, or do they just bolt up?


There was one bolt that was too short due to the thicker casting and had to be replaced. Not sure if I still have the part number, since I couldn't find it online. I ended up faxing the drawing to my local dealer parts department and he looked it up on ETKA. IIRC, it was bolt #18. We loctited the original on with the nut partially engaged and swapped it out when the longer one came in.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Thanks. 

I'm still waiting to hear back from Ohlins USA on the rebuild of my fronts. They finished the re-valve and replaced the inner keepers and scraper, but had to special order the outer seals as they didn't have a set in stock. I told them that these were paired with 300 ft-lb springs in front, so the re-valve should go with them quite nicely. I'm actually starting to get excited about finishing the suspension.

Only problem is now I need to find a decent set of stoptech st-40s to go up front as my brembos won't fit with the aluminum spindles. :banghead:

If anyone has a line on a gently used set of st-40s, please let me know. Another thought I had was the possibility of using a spacer on the bracket to offset the difference in spindle thickness. I also contacted apikol to see about a different bracket/bolt setup since they specialize in that setup; they may be able to come up with a solution that will prevent me having to get another bbk with negligible gains.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Actually, JR, do you still have the photo with the different spindles and measurements of each? The one you had in this thread seems to be unavailable. It seems apikol does make a spacer shim, but I'm not sure if it would work. If you have it, I need to know the measurement between the strut bolts (IIRC, its 94mm) and the difference in thickness between caliper mounts for the stock spindles and passat spindles.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

npace said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm still waiting to hear back from Ohlins USA on the rebuild of my fronts. They finished the re-valve and replaced the inner keepers and scraper, but had to special order the outer seals as they didn't have a set in stock. I told them that these were paired with 300 ft-lb springs in front, so the re-valve should go with them quite nicely. I'm actually starting to get excited about finishing the suspension.
> 
> ...


What was the price on the rebuild? I have to sets of fronts and set of rears that need to get rebuilt.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

ceese said:


> What was the price on the rebuild? I have to sets of fronts and set of rears that need to get rebuilt.


Not sure yet. They have a weird system where you send your stuff, then they do the work, then send you an invoice and you pay to get your stuff sent back. I paid $26 to ship insured with signature service, and they sent me an invoice for $104. So right now I'm in $130, but the outer seals they ordered aren't on the invoice, plus labor and return shipping. My guess is that it will come in at under $300. I'll let you know once I get a final invoice and make a payment.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

npace said:


> Actually, JR, do you still have the photo with the different spindles and measurements of each? The one you had in this thread seems to be unavailable. It seems apikol does make a spacer shim, but I'm not sure if it would work. If you have it, I need to know the measurement between the strut bolts (IIRC, its 94mm) and the difference in thickness between caliper mounts for the stock spindles and passat spindles.


OEM brake mount on spindle is 0.640" thick.
Passat brake mount on spindle is 1.307" thick, with the extra material on the back (inboard) face.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Got my struts back today, and while they're not on the car, I'm pretty happy. All told it cost me $426 including shipping (outbound and return). For that, I got a re-valve, new seals, new scrapers, new snap rings and top nuts, plus a full test on the shock dyno. All told, a pretty good deal; basically everything is new except the shock tubes themselves. Since I got such a good deal on these used, with the rebuild from Ohlins I'm still substantially under what they would have cost new, so I'm happy.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

npace said:


> Got my struts back today, and while they're not on the car, I'm pretty happy. All told it cost me $426 including shipping (outbound and return). For that, I got a re-valve, new seals, new scrapers, new snap rings and top nuts, plus a full test on the shock dyno. All told, a pretty good deal; basically everything is new except the shock tubes themselves. Since I got such a good deal on these used, with the rebuild from Ohlins I'm still substantially under what they would have cost new, so I'm happy.


Excellent! I have half an eye out for a used set to keep as a spare / rotate to send out for rebuilds every few years.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

That's a really good idea. My only concern is how long they will continue to support them. When I sent them in, I got a phone call with a few questions about what they were. I still have the stock shocks though, so I'll probably just swap those in when/if I need another rebuild. I haven't been hitting the track as often with a newborn in the house, so my guess is they should last at least 3 years on the current rebuild.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

npace said:


> That's a really good idea. My only concern is how long they will continue to support them. When I sent them in, I got a phone call with a few questions about what they were. I still have the stock shocks though, so I'll probably just swap those in when/if I need another rebuild. I haven't been hitting the track as often with a newborn in the house, so my guess is they should last at least 3 years on the current rebuild.



I think it depends on your roads. JR and I had ours installed roughly about the same time. I've been through two sets, he's on his first. The roads around me are terrible. If your set was rebuilt then it sounds like they lasted the previous owner about the same length of time as one of my sets.

I'm assuming it won't be a problem to get them rebuilt in a few years time. Seals and other parts excluding the shock bodies are used in their other products.

I love the Ohlins when they are freshly installed but even drivng carefully they just don't seem to take the abuse of the roads around me as well as OEM shocks did. I'm seriously considering installing H&Rs to see if they'll hold up to any better then getting my Ohlins rebuilt and putting them in a closet until I move somewhere with better roads.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

I bought them from a Canadian who was just outside Toronto. (Probably Ponto's cousin  )I'm assuming the freezing weather and damage from salt means that the roads up there aren't all that great. Really, the only thing that needed to happen on mine was new seals, as they had a slight oil leak. 

The report from Ohlins was that they probably could have lasted quite a bit longer, but I had them to a full rebuild since they were there anyway. I only did the fronts, as the rears are still leak free and tested within the appropriate range on a local shock dyno. When I had the rears tested, I didn't test the fronts since I was sending those in no matter what, and Ohlins tests everything and then calls and gives you options based on your needs and wants. All in all, the service was excellent, but a little expensive.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

npace said:


> I bought them from a Canadian who was just outside Toronto. (Probably Ponto's cousin  )I'm assuming the freezing weather and damage from salt means that the roads up there aren't all that great. Really, the only thing that needed to happen on mine was new seals, as they had a slight oil leak.
> 
> The report from Ohlins was that they probably could have lasted quite a bit longer, but I had them to a full rebuild since they were there anyway. I only did the fronts, as the rears are still leak free and tested within the appropriate range on a local shock dyno. When I had the rears tested, I didn't test the fronts since I was sending those in no matter what, and Ohlins tests everything and then calls and gives you options based on your needs and wants. All in all, the service was excellent, but a little expensive.


Cheaper than a new set from a mid level set of front shocks so it's good to know Ohilns offers rebuilds directly, I do want to order a second set of rears at some point. When I'm ready to send them in to be rebuilt I'll have to decide whether I want to send them to Ohlins directly or PSI in California (where I bought them).

FYI: I've spent a lot of time in Toronto before moving out west. Like most cities north of the border the Canadians do a better than decent job of taking care of their roads. If memory serves Toronto's roads are significantly better than Seattle's.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Just wanted to mention that adjusting my perches up one thread on each corner made a pretty dramatic difference in how the car feels hitting one particular bad bump on my daily commute. It is a heaved up seam in I-5 and is unavoidable. I had lowered everything when I went to camber plates and stiffer/shorter springs up front and was crashing into the bump stops (it felt like) every day. One thread makes no crash, just a firm hit. Visually identical, IMHO.


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

JRutter said:


> Just wanted to mention that adjusting my perches up one thread on each corner made a pretty dramatic difference in how the car feels hitting one particular bad bump on my daily commute. It is a heaved up seam in I-5 and is unavoidable. I had lowered everything when I went to camber plates and stiffer/shorter springs up front and was crashing into the bump stops (it felt like) every day. One thread makes no crash, just a firm hit. Visually identical, IMHO.


Good point. 
Suspension travel often gets overlooked, especially when lowering. 
When I had my Bilsteins revalved, Shaikh was able to get a fair amount of additional front travel by modifying the internal bump stops. The difference was quite noticeable, in my quest to find a suspension that could deal with our harsh New England Roads, and still have sporty handling. The result is a suspension that takes a beating. In fact it gets better the faster you go on rough roads. It just holds on.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

SilverSquirrel said:


> Good point.
> Suspension travel often gets overlooked, especially when lowering.
> When I had my Bilsteins revalved, Shaikh was able to get a fair amount of additional front travel by modifying the internal bump stops. The difference was quite noticeable, in my quest to find a suspension that could deal with our harsh New England Roads, and still have sporty handling. The result is a suspension that takes a beating. In fact it gets better the faster you go on rough roads. It just holds on.


I'll have to see if they can do that with the internal bump stops when I send my ohlins in to be rebuilt


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

Are the ohlins inverted monotube strut, like bilstein?


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

SilverSquirrel said:


> Are the ohlins inverted monotube strut, like bilstein?



Yes, with an internal bumpstop

IMG_5823 by ceese3, on Flickr


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

*Single or Pair of front Ohlins Struts for sale*

My apologies in advance. I know this isn't a normal place for a link to a sales thread but considering that this thread is specifically about these struts and since I know most of the people on this thread either in person or through PM conversations, I decided that a few of you might be interested in buying a single backup strut since they are no longer available through commercial channels. While I'm firm on the price, a few of you have done me favors in the past (you know who you are) so expect the same.

 Ohlins DFV Road and Track Front Struts for sale


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