# Time for a new clutch?



## lite1979 (Sep 9, 2005)

I'm at 133k miles on my 2001 225 QC now, and it would appear that the clutch is starting to slip. After stepping on it in 4th gear the other day, it revved up from 3k-4k, then settled back to 3k and started to pull. Does anyone have any idea how long the flywheel can last on our cars? 

I'm a pretty tame driver, and I never race the car, but after reading the original Sachs service bulletin regarding our flywheel, they mention having uneven compression on one or more cylinders being a contributing factor in shortening the lifespan of the flywheel. I had a bad head gasket for a while, and at the time my compression check numbers were 180-150-100-100. The bulletin does state that you may re-use the flywheel once, however.

I also get a weird vibration around 3k rpm that makes me think maybe I should replace the flywheel. It's only around 3k, though, nowhere else in the rpm range. Thoughts? I'll be going through Germanautoparts.com for the replacement clutch, flywheel, slave cylinder and pressure plate when I finally do this.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Thoughts? Dual Mass Flywheels suck, are expensive, and should be thrown in the trash. :laugh:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

20v master said:


> Dual Mass Flywheels suck, are expensive, and should be thrown in the trash. :laugh:


I have to disagree there Adam! Well kind off, since I agree that they're way overpriced. 

After thinking about it, then doing my homework as usual, and finally asking THE clutch expert, I am keeping a Dual Mass Unit in my car. Maybe with a different gearbox, I'd chance on using one with the 1.8t, but on my untouched, unbalanced motor, I'm not that brave. I don't like the idea of having motor and transmission harmonics working at destroying each other without the dampener designed to isolate the two. 

I understand that there are TQ ratings that the dampening media is designed for, but you'd have to really have a monster for the OEM DM to let go in quick order. It is a wear item and has a service interval that should match the specific TQ output, but 99% of users, including myself, have no business with a single mass (the small benefits are not worth the danger). My 2 cents!


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I like German and I'm about to get bashed but Ebay is cheap and Sachs or LUK is an OEM supplier:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SACHS-CLUTC...pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

You should replace the flywheel as well as the slave cylinder once you're in there. Just make sure you get 225hp specific items- they are 240mm disc size not 228mm (fwd trans).

The vibration could be any number of things.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

DougLoBue said:


> I like German and I'm about to get bashed but Ebay is cheap and Sachs or LUK is an OEM supplier:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SACHS-CLUTC...pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr
> 
> ...


With a deal like that, and even if you end up spending more on the clutch/PP/slave cyl, pony up and replace the dual mass flywheel (they are wear items just like a clutch disc or brake pads). :beer:


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## darrenbyrnes (Jan 4, 2005)

Personally, my current car is on its 4th clutch. Apparently the original one grendaded after a few thousand miles and was replaced by an Audi technician who didn't give a crap and decided to strip out some sub frame bolts. That 2nd clutch lasted until about 85k miles when the DM flywheel disintegrated.

I tossed in another DM flywheel that lasted until about 150k miles when, lo and behold, THAT DM flywheel disintegrated. The slave cylinder happened to be having issues as well.

This last one I put in is a SINGLE MASS and have been very happy with the complete lack of ANY chatter and the smoothness of the shifting.

Go with a single mass, it's lighter and probably won't disintegrate on you.

:beer::beer::beer:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> I have to disagree there Adam! Well kind off, since I agree that they're way overpriced.
> 
> After thinking about it, then doing my homework as usual, and finally asking THE clutch expert, I am keeping a Dual Mass Unit in my car. Maybe with a different gearbox, I'd chance on using one with the 1.8t, but on my untouched, unbalanced motor, I'm not that brave. I don't like the idea of having motor and transmission harmonics working at destroying each other without the dampener designed to isolate the two.
> 
> I understand that there are TQ ratings that the dampening media is designed for, but you'd have to really have a monster for the OEM DM to let go in quick order. It is a wear item and has a service interval that should match the specific TQ output, but 99% of users, including myself, have no business with a single mass (the small benefits are not worth the danger). My 2 cents!


 For cost alone, I'd go with a single mass and a Fluidampr if you're that concerned, but I put 130K miles on two 1.8T's with 2x+ OEM power, single mass FW, stock damper, and neither had signs of bearing wear when they were torn down. One of those was unbalanced too. FYI, VW cranks are balanced, but I've never weighed OEM pistons and rods, but it's a 4 cyl, so 2 up 2 down means if your rods and pistons weigh out, you are fine. Aftermarket rods should come matched, as should all pistons, but again, I've never weighted OEM pistons. I would "assume" OEM pistons and rods are matched since there is no balance shaft on a 1.8T. I understand harmonics and the dampening effects of the FW/damper pulley, but the DMFW is there for softening NVH. The FW's we install on manual 2.4's is a big ole thick single mass steel unit (much bigger than anything I've seen on a VW), and that comes with a 100K mile warranty, unlike 1.8T's with DMFW's and their 60K mile warranties. Also, I'd say they're no heavier than the 1.8T 240mm DMFW based on picking them up. To each his own, but I've had SMFW/clutches that chatter like hell, have the SMFW surfaced and put in the same model brand new clutch, and it not chatter. :screwy:


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

I've got a SB Stg. 3 waiting on a 20lb steel SMFW and I will probably pony up for a Fluidampr as well, I wanted to hold off and use that stuff for the build but screw it, no reason to wait considering how long my parts collecting is...if I didn't have to drop the crazy coin on the turbo/exhaust I'd be done by now. 

Also, vibration could certainly be from engine mounts, all three are definitely shot if they've never been replaced, and harmonics would explain the specific RPM vibration. I'd do the clutch stuff, mounts, dampener, and misc all at once considering the amount of effort/disassembly needed for the clutch, might as well just be done with it all :thumbup:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

20v master said:


> For cost alone, I'd go with a single mass and a Fluidampr if you're that concerned, but I put 130K miles on two 1.8T's with 2x+ OEM power, single mass FW, stock damper, and neither had signs of bearing wear when they were torn down. One of those was unbalanced too. FYI, VW cranks are balanced, but I've never weighed OEM pistons and rods, but it's a 4 cyl, so 2 up 2 down means if your rods and pistons weigh out, you are fine. Aftermarket rods should come matched, as should all pistons, but again, I've never weighted OEM pistons. I would "assume" OEM pistons and rods are matched since there is no balance shaft on a 1.8T. I understand harmonics and the dampening effects of the FW/damper pulley, but the DMFW is there for softening NVH. The FW's we install on manual 2.4's is a big ole thick single mass steel unit (much bigger than anything I've seen on a VW), and that comes with a 100K mile warranty, unlike 1.8T's with DMFW's and their 60K mile warranties. Also, I'd say they're no heavier than the 1.8T 240mm DMFW based on picking them up. To each his own, but I've had SMFW/clutches that chatter like hell, have the SMFW surfaced and put in the same model brand new clutch, and it not chatter. :screwy:


 Interesting perspective! How many tranny have failed on you during your BT 1.8t years while on a Single mass rigid setup? I'm more concerned with the engine taking out the gear box. I do not trust our clacking clackity clack transmission and so did Audi/VW. I am sure you can find plenty of examples of single mass conversions that lasted, but you can also find DMF that performed flawlessly for long period of time. In my case for example, I am launching 4X 315mm wide grippy rubber with instantaneous bigger TQ spikes than most on a DMF with 70k on the clock - guess what, it outlasted the clutch! So it's not like the OEM DMF can't take some real abuse for a long time. 

There was a real good study online for vibration transfer on a 4 banger with and without a DMF (charts for both engine and transmission). I can't seem to find it right now but it was full of eye-opening data. I'll dig for it later, but in the mean time: 

http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemed...ure_1/downloads_5/luk_fail_diag_zms_de_en.pdf


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Never killed any trans parts except shift forks. And lots of axles.:laugh: And I have over 250 launches on my FWD 02M on slicks, that had 75K on it when I got it, and put another 100K on it since. Those launches were consistent 1.7-1.8 60' times too. Its been on a single mass FW since I've owned it.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

20v master said:


> Thoughts? Dual Mass Flywheels suck, are expensive, and should be thrown in the trash. :laugh:


 I disagree if its a daily driver with nothing more than a stage 1 remap. Too much noise at idle with a SMF on the TT's, not so bad in other Audis. 

Valeo now makes a dual mass clutch kit I would highly recommend. You are allowed to reuse the OEM dual mass one time according to LUK the OEM supplier (they have a tech bulletin on it). 

Valeo OE Replacement Clutch Kit - Organic disc, Sprung hub 
Part Number: VLE52255601 Manufacturer Number: 52255601 

More Images 
add to compare 
$684.20 
List Price: $807.36 
Save: $123.16 
FREE Shipping 
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In Stock 
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VALEO OE REPLACEMENT CLUTCH KIT -- 8.88 in. disc diameter, 0.88 in. input shaft size, 28 spline; Includes dual mass flywheel, clutch disc assembly, pressure plate cover assembly, release bearing, alignment tool, grease pack, installation guide, technical service bulletin; Manufactured using components that exceed OE specifications; Offers long life and smooth engagement. 
Fit Note: USA Built Vehicle 
Series: Valeo OE Replacement 
Material: Organic disc 
Type: Sprung hub 
Condition: New 
Product Fit: OE replacement


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## Scigano (Mar 10, 2011)

I'd like to know more about this. Valeo's a company that I know supplies direct to Audi, so I'd expect that to come w/ an inherent amount of security (all things in a 'fair' world, right?). Sells affordably too — Luk also retails just the disk by itself for $180 n' change). I think the stock setup is supposed to hold something like 300 lb/ft, if that's true — that'd be sufficient for a lot of people, even chipped (big turbo Quattro TTs aren't as plentiful as their FWD VW counterparts). 

It says the disk is 8.88 in in diameter, which equates to roughly 225 mm. Don't our O2Ms use 240 mm clutches? 

I'd also like to know if that can be used w/ the aftermarket flywheels too (I know some require the use of specific clutches apparently). Reason being is, when I take this to my VW/Audi tech friend to put in — helluva job alone — n' I tell him I was planning to reuse my 113K mile DMFW (what it is now, hopefully have at least as many more miles as the original poster), he may break my new clutch over my head. 

If you do reuse the original flywheel once — did Luk or whoever is suited to make that call specify if it must be done before a certain mileage?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

DMF is around $150 on ebay new

Luk/Sachs clutch kits with pressure plates are around $180 new and they are both OEM manufactures - I had a LUK in my car when I pulled it.

Why even look at Valeo? I can vouch for them- my friend runs their setup with a single mass flywheel on his A4 with no issues or chattering at all. I plan on picking the same setup up for my A4 shortly.

Yep 225hp TT's use 240mm disc & I am positive that if you put a single mass on an 02m TT, any single mass, it will chatter.

Additionally I'm not sure if you've ever pulled a transmission or seen the labor charges (11hours by the book) to do it but once you're in there, you do everything. No pulling it isn't the hardest thing in the world it's just time consuming and it's not something you want to do twice because you tried to save $200 by not buying a new flywheel or slave cylinder.


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## Scigano (Mar 10, 2011)

I went back and checked the Valeo clutch kits available from JC Whitney — for a TT Quattro, they offer one kit in an 8.88 in. diameter (around 225 mm) and two other in 9.44 in. (the 240 mm spec I thought came standard on O2M gearboxes). 

The two 9.44 in. kits have different prices and I'm unsure if that's because one comes with a flywheel or not (there's one in the picture, but you know how these things are — n' they don't explicitly specify in the product description). 

I'll look into the Luk/Sachs kits. As long as it's rated to at least factory holding specs, it's fine by me — I'm Uni Stage 2 now. I'd like to learn more about that supposed DMFW reuse (and if it comes with a necessary resurfacing, overall suggested mileage of use, etc). 

If I can get something new for as relatively low as those clutches are, I'll just get something new (singlemass chatter wouldn't bother me much as long as it wasn't an indication of damage being done, I'm young, foolish, n' have had sub-10 lb flywheels before). 

EDIT: Valeo also makes a complete flywheel conversion kit. Clutch, p-plate, new single-mass flywheel (which I don't know how good it is — you guys tell me), slave cylinder w/ throw out bearing, and the obligatory hardware.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

I don't see any new DMFWs on ebay, and only 1 @$150 and it is definitely used, aka a crapshoot. The though has always been that DMFWs can't be resurfaced, but as long as they haven't been eaten into by the clutch disc after the pads are gone, it would be just like surfacing a single mass.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

New: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LuK-DMF032-...pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

$220 shipped.

There are others just requires searching sir


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> New: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LuK-DMF032-...pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr
> 
> $220 shipped.
> 
> There are others just requires searching sir


 Eh, not trying to nit pick but $220 isn't $150, and all those cars it lists that this works for didn't come with 02M's. :what:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

20v master said:


> Eh, not trying to nit pick but $220 isn't $150, and all those cars it lists that this works for didn't come with 02M's. :what:


 You somehow always force me to break the silence and spill out the secrets. 

The $100 link (not even $150) was given to me so I can snatch it. I originally was going to use an uprated DMF that was properly re-surfaced on both mass and uprated with higher arc springs to match my TQ output. Now that Doug has found such cheap unit new, I'll have my guy uprate a new unit to run (the center bearing couldn't be rebuilt, so the perfectionist in me decided to start with fresh unit to modify. (Please don't send PMs about DMF upgrades because this was done for me as a favor and the guy said it's a PITA and he's not interested in doing more). 

The original used DMF that was modified can be seen here with the rest of the setup going in my car.


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## Scigano (Mar 10, 2011)

For the price, I'm planning to just get the Sachs kit (w/ the trimmings like new slave cylinder w/ bearing and a flywheel mounting kit from four seasons — since those seals are likely 12 years old). I was also thinking of getting just another DMFW since there are some reasonable deals out there (put a good Sachs find and DMFW together and you come in well below kits that you don't need if you aren't making or planning to make a lot more power). 

Then I saw that F1 Racing makes a 240 mm flywheel for a steal. I remember when I first saw F1 on eBay and got the hibbidy jibbidies from them — but then I found a reputable part supplier for my last car (boosted Mazda Miata) who used them in their own track cars. I got one of their chromoly flywheels and a stage 3 clutch that did fine on my turbo Miata. They only make an aluminum flywheel for the TT Quattro though — with a carbon steel friction plate. 

It weighs 10 lbs (a 16 lbs reduction I believe), and the BMW guys seem to like them. For the price, it'd definitely be nice to have the quick revs for that $$$. Four Seasons tuning also has fairly appreciable prices on both billet and aluminum flywheels that fit — more than what I can find a DMFW, but w/ the Sachs clutch, still cheaper than an off-the-shelf kit.


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## Scigano (Mar 10, 2011)

Looky what I found: 

That Sachs/Luk bulletin about DMFW servicing — 
including mention of being able to reuse it for the first clutch replacement. 

http://www.understeer.com/pdf/dualmass.pdf 

(in fairness — it says to replace the DMFW when replacing the clutch for the second time — but that's in protocol-crazy Germany, where I'm sure even the corner mechanic could outdo some VW/Audi dealer techs here) (and again, if your first clutch goes until 140K, 160K, or saints-be-praised, more — are you still supposed to just throw it back in there w/ no 
resurfacing as per the instructions for one more full dance?)


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## darrenbyrnes (Jan 4, 2005)

toy4two2 said:


> I disagree if its a daily driver with nothing more than a stage 1 remap. Too much noise at idle with a SMF on the TT's, not so bad in other Audis.


 Mine is a DD and the SM FW I have doesn't make any sound at idle...No chatter, no grind, nothing. 

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

darrenbyrnes said:


> Mine is a DD and the SM FW I have doesn't make any sound at idle...No chatter, no grind, nothing.





DougLoBue said:


> I am positive that if you put a single mass on an 02m TT, any single mass, it will chatter.


 Unstoppable force meets immoveable object! DUN DUN DUNNNNN!!!!! :laugh:


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## Scigano (Mar 10, 2011)

opcorn:


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## Neb (Jan 25, 2005)

20v master said:


> Unstoppable force meets immoveable object! DUN DUN DUNNNNN!!!!! :laugh:


 haha 

If I could do it again I would have stuck with a DMFW. I have the Four Season's Tuning 21lb (IIRC) SMFW and hate the chatter. It's embarrassing to be honest.


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## lite1979 (Sep 9, 2005)

Thanks for the input. I'm going to wait until I get some really bad slippage before I pull the trigger on this, but I'll definitely opt for a DMFW and fork out the extra cash if I replace it at all.. My cousin had it before me from 50k to 105k miles, and while I hate him for crashing the car and not having insurance, I trust that he didn't beat the clutch up to the point of ruining the current flywheel, so I'll probably inspect it and if it looks ok, put it back in the car. Dropping the tranny is a pain in the ass and time consuming, but when compared to other jobs that I have/will have tackled on this car (heater core, head gasket, turbo rebuild), I think the labor will seem easy. 

It also helps that I've R&Red so many transmissions on A-body VAG cars that I can practically do it in my sleep now...


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

20v master said:


> Unstoppable force meets immoveable object! DUN DUN DUNNNNN!!!!! :laugh:


 To settle the score, our clacking gear box is loose, noisy, and chatters with a DMFW or SMFW conversions. What the DMFW does is some dampening to make it less damaging and noisy, and also move most of the resonance to start up. With a single mass, depending of the weight, the bulk of the resonance can be at idle... or if heavier even moved to an unknown range (which is a big No-No). 

This is the better study I promised, it explains in better details what's going on and how vibrations, harmonic resonance etc. are shifted around. Most won't care to read it but it has great information and data on the subject: 

http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemed...effler_2/symposia_1/downloads_11/4_dmfw_1.pdf


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Can't sit and study at work, but I'll dive in this weekend. I got into the DMFW one above and had to stop about 1/3 into it. :thumbup:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

"For technical reasons, the secondary flywheel friction area *must not be reworked!*" from the small Sachs technical bulletin above, aka can't be resurfaced? 

Anyways, I just had a nice chat with our on-site OEM R&D guy. In a nutshell, if the engine is "well balanced," even a Fluidampr isn't needed to prevent bearing damage (the Fluidampr is just a bigger "blanket" that limits more resonance than the engine was initially designed for, hence why they're aren't used on stock engines, and why they are used in racing where chasing those last few HP can land you in the winner's circle). The DMFW's are tuned for NVH reduction in two operation conditions: startup (one direction of rotation and inertia) and shift event (decoupling of the power source causes backlash/unloading, aka dampening in the opposite direction) . Max, I'm curious, ask your guy how many springs are in our OEM DMFW. The larger pdf I got into only described DMFW's as having one giant spring. 

We had an issue in plant where we were getting horrible clunking on startup. Luk representatives were actually here for 10 days to resolve the issue. The problem was the DMFW was tuned only for NVH concerns on shift events, aka they ignored startup and went the wrong way in their tuning. Motormounts, damper pulleys, and even alternator voltage switching strategies (as well as AC compressor clutching if you think about) all can affect this. 

So, it seems like going to a SMFW can shift resonance to appear at idle very frequently on 1.8T's and their tranmissions (02J's and 02M's in my experience), but it isn't always going to appear (many things affect this as I pointed out above) and it can be corrected with other modifications (Fluidamper). With modern tolearances and balancing, the "OMG crankshaft/transmission ruining vibrations" isn't so much of a concern, especially on a 4 cylinder as compared to V6-8 engines. But bottom line is, the DMFW is NOT for preventing unwanted harmonics and the potential crankshaft bearing and transmission damage that is perceived as a threat but rather for a smooth startup and shifting. :thumbup:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Skimming through these pdf's, some things that jump out..... 

"In individual instances, it must be decided whether the crankshaft damper can be omitted or if a simpler material can be used for the crankshaft, such as a casting." 

That to me says since we have a damper pulley that's "probably" (only VW/Audi would know) tuned for harmonics and realistic rpm ranges, going to a SMFW would be comparable to keeping the DMFW and deleting the damper affect of the OEM pulley (lightened billet pulley). 

"The cases (as in Figure 9) in which the engine remained in the resonance 
for a longer period of time or that did not even rev up on their own power 
are all critical. This is always the case if the engine power at starting rpm is 
so low that the entire energy is sapped by the highly vibrating system and 
there is no energy left over for revving up. This condition is also designated 
as suspended start and must absolutely be avoided with the DMFW 
because the long-lasting high amplitudes can cause mechanical damage to 
the components." 

This tells me that trying to crank an engine over and over that won't start and has a DMFW could ruin the DMFW.  

"Crankshaft vibrations (torsion and bending) are reduced. This allows for a new crankshaft design. 
It must be noted that the engine irregularity is likely to increase due to the 
low flywheel mass of the DMFW. The elimination of gear rattle prevents numerous customer complaints who fear that their transmission could be damaged, causing expensive 
disassembly costs during the warranty term." 

This shows that the DMFW does some dampening on the crankshaft. That's a given. It doesn't expand on crankshaft design but probably means production trending towards lighter components, but DMFW can contribute to this because only one of the masses is considered dampening, the one bolted to the crankshaft, so it's actually acting just like a lightweight single mass FW in that regard. It then goes into gear rattle, aka chatter that 1.8'ts and SMFW are known for, but never says if this is a real concern or just customer perceived. The fact that they mention warranty term however leads me to believe that it's the OEM's not wanting customers to complain, which will lead to unneccesary disassmebly, aka $ down the drain.  Interesting stuff. :beer: 

To highlight some of what I said in the previous post, Max, the pdf you posted focuses mainly on startup and says nothing of harmonics in different rpm ranges, which kinda proves me point.


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## Mykal (Sep 7, 2012)

LuK DMF032 Clutch Flywheel - LuK 
$229.78 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CI6Z90/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER 


LuK 02-040 Clutch Set - LuK 
$223.73 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CICYQI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER 

Ill probably go with these shortly.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

20v master said:


> To highlight some of what I said in the previous post, Max, the pdf you posted focuses mainly on startup and says nothing of harmonics in different rpm ranges, which kinda proves me point.


 Yes, the PDF focus a bit more on start up conditions because that is where the bulk of the harmonic resonance is tuned to be shifted with the DMFW designs (ours is a multi-spring one with primary and secondary spring to make the dampening action two-staged and smoother). 

However if you look at the last PDF I posted: 

Figure 4 - "Comparison of vibration isolation of a conventional system to a dual mass flywheel" you can clearly see the isolation from torsional vibration at RPM greater than idle between a conventional and DMF setup (recorded at the transmission input, and must be noted that the conventional setup has a sprung clutch providing some dampening). I'm curious to hear your interpretation of the rather large torsional vibration buffer offered by the DMFW throughout??? 

Also in fig 5, you'll spot a WOT characteristic curve. This to me illustrates the transmission stress relief from elimination of engine irregularities. It seems quite a bit less when dampened by a DMFW. What are your thoughts??? 

You bring some interesting points with the use of a fluid damper to counteract what is missing with the DMFW. But without knowing how much is canceled with the use of a fluid damper, I'm still siding with the use of a DMFW with our gear box. Our OEM flywheel offer up to a 40* angle of misalignment between the engine and tranny side, I don't know how much of that can be achieved by a fluid damper. What do you say???


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Yes, the PDF focus a bit more on start up conditions because that is where the bulk of the harmonic resonance is tuned to be shifted with the DMFW designs (ours is a multi-spring one with primary and secondary spring to make the dampening action two-staged and smoother).
> 
> However if you look at the last PDF I posted:
> 
> ...


 Figure 4 isn't very clear to me. My interpretation shows that with the sprung clutch disc, the engine and transmission are much closer to equal in their angular acceleration levels, whereas the DMFW shifts this to be more acceleration absorbed by the crank and less to the tranmission? Like I said, not real clear there. 

For figure 5, it's focusing on 1K to 3K rpms with almost all benefits gone by 2500 rpms. How much racing do you do at 2500 rpms?  

As for the Fluidampr, it doesn't allow anywhere near that angle of misalignment, and doesn't reduce the vibration by means of mechanical/inertia yielding but does more to "absorb" the vibration internally by the hyrdaulic fluid.


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## tedgram (Jul 2, 2005)

This fall I've noticed when letting up on the throttle after accelerating in 1rst to 3rd gear what seems to be drive line lash. It's not noticable in higher gears. I'm woundering if its caused by my DMFW? My car has 110,000 miles on it.


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## RabbitGTDguy (Jul 9, 2002)

After all this and thinking forward for clutch replacement...I still can't figure what our best option for OEM like function/reliability but to support uprated power...


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

RabbitGTDguy said:


> After all this and thinking forward for clutch replacement...I still can't figure what our best option for OEM like function/reliability but to support uprated power...


Southbend Clutch with oem dmf


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## crzygreek (Jul 8, 2005)

Looks like I will be replacing my clutch in the spring as it is starting to slip with the added power and what looks like 235k kms on the oem piece!

The link to the DMFW on amazon is now up to 283$ 

What do you guys think about using the R32 clutch/PP as it is rated for more factory TQ... Would it fit to the flywheel? Are there more bolt holes on the PP? Is the disc any different then what is listed for the TT225?


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## hunTTsvegas (Aug 27, 2012)

crzygreek said:


> Looks like I will be replacing my clutch in the spring as it is starting to slip with the added power and what looks like 235k kms on the oem piece!
> 
> The link to the DMFW on amazon is now up to 283$
> 
> What do you guys think about using the R32 clutch/PP as it is rated for more factory TQ... Would it fit to the flywheel? Are there more bolt holes on the PP? Is the disc any different then what is listed for the TT225?


If I remember correctly, they utilize the same transmission which should mean the clutch pack (disc and pressure plate) should also be 240mm and in turn, work without any problems. Going to defer to the experts though.. :beer:


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

toy4two2 said:


> I disagree if its a daily driver with nothing more than a stage 1 remap. Too much noise at idle with a SMF on the TT's, not so bad in other Audis.
> 
> Valeo now makes a dual mass clutch kit I would highly recommend. You are allowed to reuse the OEM dual mass one time according to LUK the OEM supplier (they have a tech bulletin on it).
> 
> ...


Sorry guys, it is for a quattro, but the 180 Quattro. 

Buy a DMF off Ebay. I sold my 350z after replacing the DMF with a SMF nismo unit because I didn't want to go through the labor of removing it and buying yet anohter DMF (they aren't cheap!).


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