# Puzzled: Timing chain replaced, fault code remains.



## Tomas_A (Apr 1, 2012)

I have a 2003 Seat Alhambra 4WD with 150 kW petrol engine (engine code AYL)

I usually don’t do any work on the car myself, but I have purchased VCDS to be able keep an eye on what’s going on in the engine. Makes me feel more in control when talking to the repair shop.

Some time ago I read the fault codes of the car.

It showed a 17755/P1347 camshaft/crankshaft sensor mismatch code.

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17755 - Rad 2; kamaxellägessensor (G163) /vevaxellägessensor (G28): felaktig anpassning 
P1347 - 35-00 - -
----

(sorry for the Swedish, but I suppose the numeric codes say it all)

The fault code would return on the third engine start after clearing codes.

Some searching on the net indicated that this could mean a very expensive timing chain replacement. 

I read measuring blocks 208 and 209 with VCDS, they displayed -10° KW and -11° KW respectively.


I took the car to a VAG shop. They concluded that the timing chain was lengthened. I asked if they had checked the sensors, to which they replied that this was not necessary, as they had made a visual inspection through the camshaft sensor mounting holes which showed that the chain was indeed lengthened. 

They showed me a printout from ElsaPro labeled “Technical product information MIL on and code 17755 or 17748, case number 2006035/9 release date 2008-dec-05” (my translation from Swedish). According to the printout, an edge should be visible through the hole in a particular position when cylinder no 1 is at TDC (as marked on the pulley on the crankshaft). If the edge is not visible, this indicates an incorrect valve timing. 

The offered price was very high (the equivalent of some 4.500 US$), especially when considering the value of the car, so I asked an independent shop. They offered to do the job for about half the price (some of that reduction was due to them not replacing the cam adjusters).

Before starting the job, I asked them to do the visual inspection through the hall sensor mounting holes again, just to be sure. However, this time the edges were in the correct position (I did not see this myself, but I had given them the printout, and I talked directly to the mechanic who did the job). We were both puzzled. The shop called their VW expert (they’re part of a nationwide chain and have some access to centralized expert support). I was told that the expert said that what you see through the holes couldn’t always be relied on, and with the particular fault code that I was having, it was virtually 100% certain that it was a chain problem. 

I don’t quite understand this test – what you see through the holes is apparently the position of the camshaft. As I figure, the adjustment position of the cam adjuster must necessarily affect what you see through the hole. If the test is going to be of any value, the adjuster must be in some particular adjustment position, and that would likely be one of its end positions. But how do you know that the adjuster is in that position? I suppose it would require forcing the oil out of the adjuster, so that the end position can be reached. How would you do that? Turn the crankshaft a couple of cycles?

Anyway, given the advice of their VW expert, I asked them to do the job and replace the chain.

Another mechanic did the job. He was Lithuanian, spoke no Swedish, a little bit of English. I visited the shop during the work. The new chain was already put on, but he told me he was puzzled, because the old chain apparently had not been installed correctly.

After some time, the shop called, said the car was ready and working fine. I asked them to do some additional jobs (brake pad replacement). Shortly thereafter, the manager called me back and said that the same fault code has returned. He thought that the mechanic had probably put the chain on wrong, and that they would fix it. Some days later he called again and said that four mechanics had looked at the chain and they all said it was OK. He asked me if I wanted them to do fault locating to find what else was causing the problem. 

I went to the shop myself, read the fault codes with VCDS and read measuring blocks 208 and 209. The fault code was the same, but this time the measuring blocks showed 8.0°KW and 11.0°KW respectively. (i.e plus, not minus).


I don’t know the meaning of these measuring blocks, but my guess is that they simply display the current timing of the camshafts relative to the crankshaft. (Is that correct?). This means that before the chain replacement, the camshaft timing was very late, but now it is instead very early. To me, this looks like the chain hasn’t been installed correctly. (Or could it possibly be stuck cam adjusters or stuck solenoid valves?)

I’m puzzled by the mechanic (who no longer works for the shop) saying that the old chain wasn’t installed correctly. If it was installed visibly wrong, wouldn’t that immediately throw a sensor mismatch fault code? We’ve hade the car for some five years without any such codes. 

When installing the chain, how do you determine that it has been correctly installed?
And now that the engine is back in the car, is there an easy and reliable way to check without taking the engine out again?

If the chain was indeed correctly installed, what else could be the problem? What tests should be done to find the problem?

--Tomas


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

How frequently is the oil and filter changed in your Seat and how many kms are on the odometer? The reason I ask is that VW's recommended long oil change intervals cause problems in US operated Audis and VWs. This is partially caused by US oil companies crude oil stock that is often "not good" and is actually known as "sour crude ". Do you know for sure the correct oil and filters were used for Seat's engine? I have worked on some Audis that have malfunctioning camshaft adjusters but are a different design than your 24V 2.8l VR6 so my experience is not quite relevant in your case. Was the camshaft timing also checked with VW special tool no. T10068 inserted into the camshaft end slots or just by the inspection in the sensor openings?


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## Tomas_A (Apr 1, 2012)

Hi Peter, thanks for your reply 

You asked: 
>How frequently is the oil and filter changed in your Seat and how many kms are on the odometer? 

We used to have the car serviced once a year. During last year, pressing family matters kept us completely occupied, and so the car has unfortunately been driven for about 34000 km since the last service. The odometer is at 160280km. I don’t know for sure that the correct oil and filters were used, but the service was done by a VAG authorized shop. 

>Was the camshaft timing also checked with VW special tool no. T10068 inserted into the camshaft end slots or just by the inspection in the sensor openings? 

I don’t know this either. And the mechanic who did the job has since quit. I’ve asked the shop manager just how the “four mechanics” determined that the chain was indeed installed correctly, but I have so far not received a reply. 

Best regards 
Tomas


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

Tomas_A said:


> Hi Peter, thanks for your reply
> 
> You asked:
> >How frequently is the oil and filter changed in your Seat and how many kms are on the odometer?
> ...


 About 20,000 miles without an oil change could have caused the hydraulic camshaft adjusters to become sludge filled preventing them from operating correctly. The 24v 2.8l vr6 is as tough as a Volvo 940 4 cylinder engine but it must have clean synthetic oil to function correctly that is why many of the US Vortex members ignore VW's recommended service intervals and "over" maintain these engines.


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## Tomas_A (Apr 1, 2012)

>About 20,000 miles without an oil change could have caused the hydraulic camshaft adjusters to become sludge filled preventing them from operating correctly. 

OK, thanks very much for the info. 
Is there some way of detecting this condition with VCDS? (e.g. some measuring blocks displaying wanted and actual camshaft timing or similar). If not, how would you check it? Will it be necessary to remove the adjusters? Would this require taking the engine out once again? 
And how would it be repaired – new adjusters ($500 a piece I suppose) or cleaning the old ones? 

Best Regards 
Tomas


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

Tomas_A said:


> >About 20,000 miles without an oil change could have caused the hydraulic camshaft adjusters to become sludge filled preventing them from operating correctly.
> 
> OK, thanks very much for the info.
> Is there some way of detecting this condition with VCDS? (e.g. some measuring blocks displaying wanted and actual camshaft timing or similar). If not, how would you check it? Will it be necessary to remove the adjusters? Would this require taking the engine out once again?
> ...


 My experience with the 24V 2.8l VR6 engine is limited to only two Jetta GLIs compared to 20 or more 12V 2.8l VR6 GTIs, Corrados and Jettas (also many Audis and Porsches). So I am not sure if there is a measuring block that does what you ask. If this were my car I would remove the camshaft adjusters and try to clean them, but I don't know what your labor costs are in Sweden so that may not be cost effective if the adjusters cant be cleaned. Also there be some other malfunctions in the camshaft timing system like damaged or stuck hydraulic flow control valves or even clogged oil passageways to the adjusters.


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## Tomas_A (Apr 1, 2012)

OK, 
now I understand more about what might be going on, which will make me feel a lot more confident when talking to the shop tomorrow. 

Thanks a lot for your help! 
Best Regards 
Tomas


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

Tomas_A said:


> OK,
> now I understand more about what might be going on, which will make me feel a lot more confident when talking to the shop tomorrow.
> 
> Thanks a lot for your help!
> ...


 This might some like a "getto" suggestion but if your Seat isn't misfiring due to camshaft adjuster problems you might try to clean the engine with a "Voodoo" cleaner like Seafoam. I would probably 
take the oil pan off first to mechanically remove as much sludge as possible before the Seafoam treatment. Then drive the Seat for a few hundred miles then another oil change. The problem with this approach is I do not know how well the camshaft adjusters can be cleaned on the engine.


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## Tomas_A (Apr 1, 2012)

_>> if your Seat isn't misfiring due to camshaft adjuster problems you might try to clean the engine with a "Voodoo" cleaner like Seafoam. _ 


There is quite a vibration when the engine is revved to 1500 rpm or thereabouts, but I don’t know if its misfiring (I suppose one would notice?). 

Your Seafoam idea sounds interesting. However, I talked to the shop and they had some kind of machine for cleaning out deposits from the engine – you would hook it up to the machine and leave it running for a day. I suppose the oil would be circulated through the machine and cleaned. Maybe some additive like Seafoam is added also, I don’t know. 
So maybe a reasonable approach would be to first check the oil pan for the expected large amount of sludge and clean it out, then run the engine with the “cleaning machine” and see if that does any good? 

I’ve read some VW documentation titled “checking camshaft adjustment” which provides a procedure to read measuring blocks 208, 209, 210 and 211. Your are supposed to depress the brake pedal and hold, then press the accelerator pedal to wide open position, and the engine speed is then supposed to be increased to about 2300 rpm by the ECU. 
When you do this, the specified and actual adjustment angles, as specified in fields 1 and 2 of blocks 210 and 211 are supposed to rise to 52 and 22 degrees respectively and then decline to specification. To me, this looks like the ECU is having the adjusters go through the entire adjustment range and back again. This seems like an interesting test. However, since I’m very far from being an expert on these things, I’m kind of reluctant to just kick down the accelerator pedal to the floor. If I misunderstood something, and the ECU would not limit the engine speed to 2300 rpm but rather speed up as much as possible, this sounds like something potentially harmful to the engine. Do you have any comments on this? Are you familiar with any test involving pressing the brake pedal and the accelerator pedal as described above? 

--Tomas


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

Tomas_A said:


> _>> if your Seat isn't misfiring due to camshaft adjuster problems you might try to clean the engine with a "Voodoo" cleaner like Seafoam. _
> 
> 
> There is quite a vibration when the engine is revved to 1500 rpm or thereabouts, but I don’t know if its misfiring (I suppose one would notice?).
> ...


 I think the camshaft adjusters will be difficult to clean on the engine but if the procedure you described is not too expensive it is worth a try. As for the "checking camshaft adjustment" procedure I think that with the brake pedal applied during the checking procedure the drive by wire throttle system ECM will not let the engine over "rev" but I have not tired the procedure as my only 24V VR6 engine is in pieces at this time.


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## Tomas_A (Apr 1, 2012)

When the camshaft adjuster adjusts, which parts rotate relative to each other? I would expect that the Hall sender wheel would turn relative to the adjuster body as the adjuster adjusts and that the sprocket is rigidly connected to the body. Or are the sender wheel and the body rigidly connected and turn relative to the sprocket? 
An arrow in a drawing (which I tried to upload but didn’t succeed) seems to indicate that sender wheel rotates relative to the adjuster body. But on the other hand, if the sprocket is rigidly connected to the adjuster body, then why would there be both a ground down tooth on the sprocket and also a mark on the adjuster body, both of which are supposed to line up with a notch on the control housing? If the sprocket was rigidly connected to the body, then the ground down tooth and the mark would always be in the same position. 
The reason I ask is because I am considering looking through the Hall sender mounting hole first, to see if I can draw any useful conclusions. If my assumption (that the Hall sender wheel moves relative to the adjuster body) is correct, then not only the timing of the crankshaft versus the camshaft, but also the adjustment position of the adjuster should be visible (at least to some degree) through the Hall sensor mounting hole. If the adjuster is not stuck, it ought to be possible to see the sender wheel move in relation to the adjuster body if the crankshaft is turned back and forth. 
--Tomas


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## Tomas_A (Apr 1, 2012)

I finally succeeded in uploading the picture. The part marked 1 is what I call the adjuster body and 2 is the Hall sender wheel. 










--Tomas


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## Tomas_A (Apr 1, 2012)

Since the previous post, the shop has taken off the cover and I have taken a lot of pictures and done measurements.

When I turn the crankshaft pulley to the TDC mark, the slots in the ends of the camshafts are not quite lined up (see pictures).



















I’ve made pixel measurements in several good-resolution photos, and the camshafts seem to be about 3-4 degrees ahead. That would correspond to 6-8 degrees on the crankshaft.
Just to make sure, I checked the crankshaft pulley TDC mark against a rod inserted into cylinder #1 and it was correct.

I also checked the position of the sprocket and body of the cam adjusters. They seem to be ahead by a quarter tooth or so, although it is difficult to make precise measurements because the notch on the control housing is not at the same height as the sprocket tooth or the arrow on the adjuster body. Photos look different depending on the angle from which they were taken. I suppose a correct view is when the camera viewing axis is a line from the camshaft center through the notch in the control housing. (see picture of exhaust and intake camshaft adjusters below).



















I don’t know the number of teeth on the sprockets, but I assume it’s the same as in the 12v VR6 engine (which are given in the 12v VR6 timing chain replacement DIY). 
Anybody know if this is correct?
Assuming 27 teeth for the adjuster sprocket, 1/4 tooth would be 1/4 * 360/27 = 3.3 degrees, or about the same as can be seen on the camshaft ends. 
To me, this seems to indicate that it likely is the chain that is set wrong, and not an accumulation of dirt inside the adjusters that is causing the early timing.


But then what could cause the chain to be ahead by a quarter tooth? 

The inner and outer intermediate sprockets have 32 and 18 teeth respectively (again assuming that it is the same as the 12v VR6). That means that if the inner sprocket is moved 1 tooth, the outer sprocket will move 18/32, or 9/16 tooth. Moving the inner sprocket by 2 teeth will move the outer sprocket 18/16, and so on. If you calculate all the values, you will see that by offsetting the intermediate sprockets and then setting the upper chain as close to correct alignment as possible, it is possible to get the chain to be off by any multiple of 1/16 tooth. 

This is the only explanation I can think of for the new chain to be off by 1/4 tooth. On the other hand, from the VW documentation, it looks like there are clear marks on the intermediate sprockets, and it should be pretty difficult to mess up. It just seems implausible that the guy who did the job, and who had done several such jobs previously, (but has since quit, so I can’t ask him) would make such a mistake.

Anybody have a clue as to what could be going on here?

Can I trust that if I turn the crankshaft a couple of turns and continue until I reach the TDC mark, then the marks on the adjusters really ought to line up exactly, with no need to apply manual tension to the chain anywhere or do something else special?

I’d really appreciate any advice which can shed some more light on this riddle.

--Tomas


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## Tomas_A (Apr 1, 2012)

*What precision to expect?*

Since my last post, the engine’s been taken out. And indeed, the intermediate sprockets are off by one tooth. However, from that I would have expected the camshafts to be 7/16 tooth ahead, which is a bit more than what was actually seen. 
In order to see what things would be like with everything correctly set, I turned the crankshaft sprocket one tooth past TDC, so as to bring the intermediate sprockets into the correct position where the marks line up. The “next” tooth on the adjuster sprockets should then line up perfectly with the notch on the controller housing. However, it doesn’t quite do that. The error seems smaller now, but it’s not perfect. (see pictures, and compare to pictures in previous post).

The VW documentation for “Checking valve timing” seems to allow for some error. It says “If the camshaft bar cannot be fitted, turn the crankshaft up to 5 mm past the TDC setting […] (dependent on drive chain tolerances).”

The remaining error when everything is set correctly would probably fall just into this range. However, I wonder if the 5 mm margin is meant to account for manufacturing tolerances, or simply for wear. If its manufacturing tolerance, then I guess things are OK. But if it’s a margin for wear, then I think that with a new chain, the margin should certainly not be used up already from the start.
Does anybody know just what precision to expect when putting in a new chain? Is 5 mm past the TDC mark on the crankshaft pulley acceptable for a new chain? If it's not, what could be the problem?

--Tomas

Crankshaft sprocket









Intermediate sprockets









Intake cam adjuster









Exhaust cam adjuster


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

The AFP 12V VR6 and the BDF 24V VR6 engines use identical lower timing chain and intermediate 
shaft components. My 24V VR6 is still in pieces but since I just did complete timing system replacement on a 2001 GTI AFP 12V that experience should be relevant. The AFP 12V that I worked on had 97,000 miles of service on its original timing chain system and showed signs of wear and stretch in that when the crankshaft marks were set to the TDC position the VW special camshaft tool would not enter both slots in the camshaft ends. With the camshaft tool in both end slots of the camshaft, the crankshaft tooth was 5 mm out of alignment. After the new chains, guides and tensioners were installed the timing marks were exactly aligned correctly. Also, one of camshafts only needed a slight amount of pressure to insert the timing tool and the intermediate sprockets were perfectly aligned. Your situation as you described it seems to indicate that there is a problem in setting up timing chains--maybe the intermediate sprocket is incorrectly positioned? Are you sure all new parts were used? My supplier 'had trouble getting IWIS original lower chains a few months ago. Did the installer reuse the lower timing chain? Did you get all the original parts back?


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## Tomas_A (Apr 1, 2012)

*Intermediate sprockets corrected, still slight misalignment*

Hi Peter, thanks a lot for your reply. 

Yes, the intermediate sprocket was indeed incorrectly positioned. It was off by one tooth. This has been corrected and it is now possible to insert a tool into the camshaft slots when the crankshaft pulley is about 2 mm past the TDC mark. See enlarged picture. 










(2 mm on the pulley would probably correspond to somewhat less than 1 mm as seen on the crankshaft tooth, since the pulley seems to have just over twice the diameter of the crankshaft sprocket.) 

The camshaft “tool” is not the VW original, but it seemed to fit reasonably snugly into the slots. See picture. 










The alignment of the intermediate sprocket looks reasonably OK, see pictures 
(The two pictures show the same sprocket position, but from slightly different camera angles) 


















The adjuster sprockets seem to be slightly late. See pictures (but they, too are rather sensitive to the camera angle) 




















I can’t know for sure that all the chains, intermediate sprockets, guides and tensioners were indeed replaced with new ones. I did not get any old parts back. However, if they had not been replaced, I suppose they would have had the same brownish stain as can be seen on the other parts? To me, they look quite clean in comparison. The guy who did the job showed me one of the old chains when I was there to visit, and it was black as I recall. 

The inner and outer intermediate sprockets do have different surface colors, but I have absolutely no idea if this is significant or not. See pictures. 

Intermediate sprockets: 










Chains closeup: 










Upper tensioner: 










Upper guide rail: 










Lower tensioner: 










Lower guide rail: 













The engine is scheduled to go back into the car on Monday morning, so if something is very wrong, I need to pull the emergency brake quickly. 

Best Regards 
Tomas


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

Were all guides and tensioners changed along with the upper and lower chains? 
I would have expected to see the crankshaft marks in closer alignment after all new parts were installed but some other Vortex listers indicate that in their cases with all new parts there was a still a little chain misalignment. If this were my own project with my labor I would buy a new lower chain just to be sure. My 97,000 mile used lower chain did not look worn but when compared to the new chain the used chain had some wear that was noticeable when held in a "bow like" shape. Also, I have not seen a new IWIS chain with copper colored links as in your photos.


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

Also, you might try the VW factory special tool in the camshaft slots to see if that affects the crankshaft timing marks alignment.


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## Tomas_A (Apr 1, 2012)

Hi Peter, thanks again for your advice. 

The upper and lower chains, tensioners and guides are all supposed to have been changed. 
From the pictures, they all look reasonably clean to me compared to the parts which have not been changed. For example, the (not changed) guide which is between the adjusters in the picture below . 




















From other pictures that I have, the intermediate sprocket seems to be perfectly or almost perfectly aligned when the crankshaft pulley is at the TDC mark. I figure that if the lower chain would be the cause of the misalignment seen, then we ought to see about twice as much misalignment on the intermediate sprocket as on the adjuster sprockets, because of the 32/18 ratio of the intermediate sprockets. I.e. if the adjuster sprocket looks to be off by 1/8 tooth, the inner intermediate sprocket ought to be seen off by 1/8 * 32/18 = 2/9 tooth if the lower chain was the cause. I guess that would speak against the lower chain being faulty. 

Your comment about the copper-coloured links on the upper chain is interesting. 
However the old chain that the repair guy showed me was so black, I can't really figure someone spending the effort to clean it to look like the chain in the pictures above. 


Anyway, I intend to be at the shop Monday morning anyway to make one last check for any signs that any of the part was actually not changed. 

Do you have any tips for what to look for to verify that they are indeed new? 

Best Regards 
Tomas


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

Maybe an invoice with a part number? But I think the improvised cam slot alignment tool may be causing the misalignment at the crankshaft? Can you borrow the factory tool? I just bought a new one from my local dealer and they were on back order.


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## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

The crankshaft is off a tooth above. The ground off tooth should be inline with the split in the bearing cap. That engine also looks like it may have suffered from sludge damage. It had been either run with NON synthetic engine oil or over-extend oil change intervals or both. 

One tooth off shouldn't cause valve damage so you should be okay. Set it back to the correct place and you should be good but you will still have to address the first code. 

You may not be getting oil pressure to the camshaft adjusters or the camshaft adjusters may be sludged up as well. Drop the oil pan and inspect and clean the oil pump and oil pump pick-up. 

I have had engines with the guides completely missing from wear that didn't throw and check engine lights or codes AT ALL! 

I think you are dealing with camshaft adjuster or oil pressure issues with the original codes


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## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

Also, as you realized there are measuring blocks to check the camshaft adjustment in VCDS. 

The camshaft adjusters can be removed and cleaned but require a VW special tool to reinstall that is a little hard to find over here in the US.


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## Lasse6 (Jul 1, 2012)

Get this thred by Google

I have a similar problem, same Car model, same engine, but a 2004, and mee too from Sweden.

Engine stalls from idle one of the firts day of april.

Feels lack of compression and a test confirmed that.

The chain has jump one or two tooth.

The engine is now out of the car and taken care of by a independent "expert" of this VR engines.

The car is serviced in 15506, 34740, 46290, 61390, 78105, 93601, 102260, 120080, 138650, 149650, 160680, 176810, 191505 kilometers.

The outer part of the intermediate sprocket is totaly worn down (see pict), the guides are not look good and you can se the slack of the upper chain














































The MIL light has never come on and the engine has never make any of the "VR noise" from the chain

Tomas! PM:a gärna din mailadress.


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

What were the results from the compression test? I would think the engine valves are bent from the timing chain skipping due to the worn out intermediate sprocket. There is a similar report of a worn out 24V 2.8l VR6 engine intermediate sprocket that you can find with a Google search in which there is a statement that the intermediate sprocket was not properly heat treated or hardened.


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## Lasse6 (Jul 1, 2012)

The comp test first gave an almost uniformly low results when I did it myself which was confirmed by a small local workshop.
but when the car came to the VW / Audi specialist about 2 months later, he took another test which showed low on the 4 cyl and basically no compression at all on the remaining 2 cyl, this is because the headgasket is blown between these

At the moment the head is off and in a workshop for some work before remounting but all valves seems to be ok.

The i-sprockets have problems with the material to year of 2000 and a new version came out in 2001, this engine was however manufactured in 2004....


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## Tomas_A (Apr 1, 2012)

*Engine's back in the car, no MIL light anymore, no fault codes.*

My engine is back in the car now and almost everything is put together. Had to wait for a replacement for a leaking AC pipe, and then the mechanic is ill. Expected back tomorrow.

I’ve run the engine and it sounds OK to me. A little bit of vibration, but I think it was there even before all this started. 

I’ve made some VCDS readings. No fault codes and no MIL light anymore. Blocks 208 and 209 are at -4 and -2 degrees. I did a log of blocks 90 and 91 and the adjusters seem to be operating. See VC-scope diagram below. Green is wanted intake adjustment, blue is actual adjustment.
I would have preferred blocks 208 and 209 to read closer to zero. But I don’t know what tolerances to expect. 










Thanks everyone for all comments and suggestions.
Best Regards
Tomas


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## wesley rsa (Aug 27, 2014)

*Sticky camshaft adjusters*

I hope some can help me with the following

Vehicle details : VW Jetta 4 V5 2.3L 20V 2001 model
Engine : AQN

I have recently replaced all timing chains, chain tensioners and guide rails, Gaskets, Seals, Piston Rings due to engine sludge.

After assembling the motor and checking all the timing marks over and over, When rotating the motor clockwise by hand to check that nothing is out of order I noticed that the cam adjustors are sticking. When the motor is turned over the cams seem to stick at certain intervals but automatically jump back into position, its as if the cams are stuck in the cam adjusters and at certain intervals release and jump back into position, even after turning the motor over about 30 times all the timing marks are still correct. Therefore the timing chain is not jumping the sprockets and offsetting the timing. 

The TDC mark on piston 1 is correct, the marks on the intermediate shaft/sprocket are correct as well as the marks on the chain showing the 16 links between the camshaft adjusters and the marks on the Valve timing housing.

The cams are also in the correct position, using a plate at the rear of the cams to keep them in position, during initial timing setup.

I had to remove the camshaft adjusters to clean out all the sludge and was wondering could this be because of no oil pressure in the camshaft adjusters ,that its sticking?

If anybody can assist me with this or had a similar issue...PLEASE HELP


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## albertr (Aug 9, 2014)

I also have removed and cleaned up the cam adjusters. Soaked them with motor oil before putting back. I don't see them being sticky. Not sure if oil made the difference or there;s something else.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5890626-Good-DIY-write-up-on-24v-timing-chain&p=86870381&viewfull=1#post86870381

-albertr


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## Giedrius_G6 (Oct 12, 2016)

*Dis calibrated exhaust camshaft?*

Hello,

I have a Audi Q7, 3,6 fsi, engine with code BHL. Recently had some problems with the bolt of oil pump. Striped down all the engine, changed some valves, put it back together, started it up and there is some problem's. Lack of power and at idle engine speed revings is jumping, lets say from 500 rpm to 1000 rpm(when the engine warms up). Took of the engine, and find out, that i had high pressure pump one tooth behind, and the dot showed not 12, but 11 o'clock. Other thing is exhaust camshaft. If I set between camshaft's 16 rollers, exhaust camshaft is 4 degrees earlier than intake camshaft, it's not inline and it's not posible to align it. If i set with 17 rollers, camshaft's is aligned with intake after 360 degrees of crankshaft. Is it possible that Exhaust camshaft dis calibrated?
























Clocked up timing, set 16 rollers between adjuster, camshaft 4 degrees ahead. High pressure pump shows 12. Yesterday put it back to the car, fired it up and after 1 minute of work, engine speed at idling still jumping, not stable. Is it because of the camshaft 4 degrees ahead?


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