# Brackets/Carriers that work with Mk4 Rear Calipers



## DPDISXR4Ti (Feb 8, 2009)

I'm trying to use the Aluminum rear calipers used on the Mk4 (and others) on a non-VW application (Ford Sierra/Merkur XR4Ti). What I've currently got mocked up is the B5 FWD Passat version of the caliper (for the e-brake and bleeder location) with the Mk4 Jetta bracket. As you can see below, it all works well except for the pad sitting outbound about a 1/4" too far. 





Are there only two brackets that work with these calipers? Any chance that a Mk3 or 5 bracket might work? Ideally there would be one which locates the caliper ~1/4" more towards the center, but I've got some other choices on rotors so knowing all my options would be helpful. 

Thanks for any input.


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

If the bolt pattern for the MKIV caliper carrier has the correct spacing to bolt onto your car, the MKIII rear caliper carrier will probably fit better on your car with the MKIV rear calipers.

We have a similar spacing problem when fitting rear MKIV calipers on a MKIII (the caliper carrier bolt spacing is the same) but same as your Ford, the caliper outset is different, so the MKIV caliper carriers will not fit on a MKIIII. The MKIV caliper mounting bolts are also too short to work on a MKIII. Also, the late MKIII that came with rear disk brakes came with a weight bolted to the parking brake lever (to help it return when the parking brake cable is released) on the rear calipers that has a FOMOCO trademark on it. So apparently the MKIII caliper is used on at least one Ford Product of some sort.

When swapping MKIV rear calipers onto a MKIII, we use the MKIII rear caliper carriers, caliper mounting bolts, brake pads, parking brake cables etc... All MKIII parts except for the alloy MKIV calipers, and the hoses that connect them to the hydraulic system.


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## DPDISXR4Ti (Feb 8, 2009)

Thanks for the info - very helpful. Are various Mk3 pads readily available?

From a "junkyard preparedness" standpoint, are the Mk3 brackets also fastened with a 8mm-headed Allen bolt?

Lastly, are all the Mk3 brackets the same radial offset? Just wondering if maybe a early/mid-90's Passat might have a compatible bracket, just like the scenario we have with the Mk4/B5 Passat.

Thanks again.


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

I don't know if all 38mm rear iron calipers (like used on MKIII Golfs and Jettas) and Passats of the same period are the same.

I can tell you that Passats were changed to the MKIV type alloy rear calipers before Golfs and Jettas were. In around Model Year 1997 the alloy rear caliper first appeared on the Passat, whereas the alloy rear calipers didn't appear on Golfs and Jettas until the introduction of the MKIVs in 1999.

There are also at least two different versions of the standard looking MKIV rear calipers. Some show up of Passats with the hose port pointing in the other direction (unsuitable for use on a MKIII rear caliper conversion).

I think if you are looking at Passats to take the rear caliper carriers off iron MKIII rear calipers. you would be safe looking at Passats up to Model Year 1995. Or get the caliper carriers off a MKIII Golf or Jetta or GTI with standard iron rear disk brakes.


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## DPDISXR4Ti (Feb 8, 2009)

germancarnut51 said:


> I think if you are looking at Passats to take the rear caliper carriers off iron MKIII rear calipers. you would be safe looking at Passats up to Model Year 1995. Or get the caliper carriers off a MKIII Golf or Jetta or GTI with standard iron rear disk brakes.


Okay, I'll keep this mind. I wonder if Audis of that era might also use the same caliper and present some options for donor carriers. 

I'll update this thread once I have some more data. If anyone else knows more, feel free to contribute.


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## DPDISXR4Ti (Feb 8, 2009)

Hit the junkyard and came home with a pair of rear brackets from a '97 (Mk3) Jetta and a '01 (B5) Passat. Both are 20mm offset, as compared to the Mk4 Jetta bracket which is 38mm (what I need). The Mk3 brackets I got have the same radial spacing from center as the Mk4 brackets, so they would have the same problem pictured above with the added "bonus" of having the wrong offset. In short, they're a no-go. Perhaps there's some earlier Mk3 bracket that is designed for a smaller rotor? But all the earlier Mk3 cars I came across were drums.

The Mk5 Passat bracket has near perfect radial spacing for the 11" rotor I'll likely use now instead of the 10" I was working with previously. I'll have to make some 18mm spacers to create an effective 38mm offset; not ideal, but it will work. Unless someone can tell me that a carrier/bracket exists with the same radial spacing as the B5 Passat bracket but with a 38mm offset. 

Pics of current mockup. Obviously the cobbled-together spacer is only for mock-up purposes. Also need to get some 40mm length bolts.


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## Malkierie504 (Oct 6, 2007)

*interesting, I'm researching something similar*

I'm looking at what adapters on the market work with stock VW calipers. So far I'm looking at the Passat W8 caliper (43mm piston) on a 280mm rotor either from a mk4 TDI or a mk3 vr6 or using an apikol adapter the 300mm eurovan rotor with a stock GLI or R32 caliper & carrier (38mm piston) depending on spacing needed. Both of these combinations maintain a stock VR6 GTI brake bias just with greaatly increased braking torque.


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## DPDISXR4Ti (Feb 8, 2009)

Malkierie504 said:


> I'm looking at what adapters on the market work with stock VW calipers. So far I'm looking at the Passat W8 caliper (43mm piston) on a 280mm rotor either from a mk4 TDI or a mk3 vr6 or using an apikol adapter the 300mm eurovan rotor with a stock GLI or R32 caliper & carrier (38mm piston) depending on spacing needed. Both of these combinations maintain a stock VR6 GTI brake bias just with greaatly increased braking torque.


Since Lucas (now ZF) supplied calipers to lots of auto manufacturers, it's possible that we may be able to look beyond the VW/Audi family of vehicles for a bracket. But that's a tall task to take on without some leads. If you need any info on the Mk3 brackets I can give you some dimensions. 

Essentially what I need in a bracket is the 38mm offset of the Jetta Mk4 bracket and the radial spacing of the B5.


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## Malkierie504 (Oct 6, 2007)

Well after more research I determined the 300mm Eurovan rotor won't work. It's both too wide, 25mm vs 22mm, & the wrong bolt pattern, 5x112 not 5x100. I need to get an A6/W8 passat caliper w/ the 43mm piston bore for test fitting to a 280mm TDI rotor. Like you said said without any kind of direction I don't know where to look. Any ideas where you are going to look?


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## DPDISXR4Ti (Feb 8, 2009)

Malkierie504 said:


> Like you said said without any kind of direction I don't know where to look. Any ideas where you are going to look?


In the short term I'll just fabricate a simple 18mm spacer with two thru-holes. The car needs to be mobile in 5 weeks and it's currently on jackstands.

I've tried searching with various batches of words based on the requirements, but that came up empty. Since I'm using a solid rotor on the back, I suspect if what I'm looking for exists it may very well be a common application. But that's the optimist in me. 

We need someone on the inside at ZF, but the acquisition of Lucas took so many twists and turns, finding someone there with legacy knowledge may be a challenge.


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## Malkierie504 (Oct 6, 2007)

Well I pulled the trigger on a pair of TT calipers & a complete W8 caliper & carrier. I'm curious to see how things line up one they arrive.


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## DPDISXR4Ti (Feb 8, 2009)

Malkierie504 said:


> Well I pulled the trigger on a pair of TT calipers & a complete W8 caliper & carrier. I'm curious to see how things line up one they arrive.


What year TT? It looks like 2000 - '06 (Mk1) TT uses the same bracket as the Mk4 Jetta/Golf/etc.


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## Malkierie504 (Oct 6, 2007)

DPDISXR4Ti said:


> What year TT? It looks like 2000 - '06 (Mk1) TT uses the same bracket as the Mk4 Jetta/Golf/etc.


It's an '01 TT Quattro so the brackets are the same as an R32.


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## Malkierie504 (Oct 6, 2007)

So the Quattro calipers (38mm brake piston) & carriers showed up in great condition just need a good cleaning & seal overhaul. The W8 caliper (43mm piston) arrived as well, it's in good condition as well. So tested the W8 caliper on the Quattro carriers & it fit fine. I might need to swap the parking brake levers from the Quattro to the W8 calipers. I'll be able to test further once I have some dry weather & pull off a wheel.


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## DPDISXR4Ti (Feb 8, 2009)

It's been awhile since I've visited this thread. If interested you can read all about the solution I came up with here... Alternate Caliper to Scorpio Rear Calipers/hubs on XR - The Merkur Club of America Forums

It's worked out so well, now I'm considering using the same caliper on the Merkur Scorpio, where the factory original rear calipers are in short supply, as are the rebuild kits.

If I wanted to continue to use the stock rotor from the Scorpio with the VW caliper I'd need a bracket with a radial distance from center LESS (ie. shorter) than the Jetta one. Does this exist? It would mean some VW application that uses a rotor LESS than 232mm in diameter.


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## Malkierie504 (Oct 6, 2007)

DPDISXR4Ti said:


> It's been awhile since I've visited this thread. If interested you can read all about the solution I came up with here... Alternate Caliper to Scorpio Rear Calipers/hubs on XR - The Merkur Club of America Forums
> 
> It's worked out so well, now I'm considering using the same caliper on the Merkur Scorpio, where the factory original rear calipers are in short supply, as are the rebuild kits.
> 
> If I wanted to continue to use the stock rotor from the Scorpio with the VW caliper I'd need a bracket with a radial distance from center LESS (ie. shorter) than the Jetta one. Does this exist? It would mean some VW application that uses a rotor LESS than 232mm in diameter.


I think either the first year beetle gets the closest. I'm now running the epytec adapter bracket allowing me to use the !mk4! 2.0/TDI 280mm front rotor out back with the 43mm piston W8 Passat rear vented caliper. As of 5k miles on it I've been loving the setup. The front doesn't dive as hard during braking nor the rear wanted to come around during a panic stop. Hopefully once it warms up in Seattle I'll take the car to some auto cross events to really sling it around and see how the car behaves


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## DPDISXR4Ti (Feb 8, 2009)

DPDISXR4Ti said:


> If I wanted to continue to use the stock rotor from the Scorpio with the VW caliper I'd need a bracket with a radial distance from center LESS (ie. shorter) than the Jetta one. Does this exist? It would mean some VW application that uses a rotor LESS than 232mm in diameter.


In case it helps anyone here, what I ended up using was a 10.67" 5x108 rear rotor (63.4mm center hub) from a 2012+ Ford Focus. Enlarging the 5 holes to 11/16" turned it into a 5x112 rotor.  For the caliper I used a combo of the following:
1998 - 2005 FWD Passat rear calipers
1998 - 2005 Jetta rear caliper brackets (.230" removed from mounting points to correctly center caliper over rotor)


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## DPDISXR4Ti (Feb 8, 2009)

Malkierie504 said:


> I'm now running the epytec adapter bracket allowing me to use the !mk4! 2.0/TDI 280mm front rotor out back with the 43mm piston W8 Passat rear vented caliper.


Indeed these guys seem to have about a million different adapter brackets. A good reference to have for future yet-unknown needs... https://epytec.de/en/brake-system/?p=1


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## Malkierie504 (Oct 6, 2007)

DPDISXR4Ti said:


> Indeed these guys seem to have about a million different adapter brackets. A good reference to have for future yet-unknown needs... https://epytec.de/en/brake-system/?p=1


And if you can give them the engineering needs they will manufacture whatever you want! They also ship their parts with struppewaffle!


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

The Mk IV alum rear calipers always worked on other applications because they were a direct bolt up to that vehicles oem bracket/carrier.

What happens when you try and bolt that caliper to your oem bracket?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## DPDISXR4Ti (Feb 8, 2009)

petethepug said:


> The Mk IV alum rear calipers always worked on other applications because they were a direct bolt up to that vehicles oem bracket/carrier. What happens when you try and bolt that caliper to your oem bracket?


I had considered that and it didn't work. I forget now exactly why it didn't - I want to say it was due to the caliper to bracket spacing being different between the two applications.


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