# Mk4 outer CV joints into Mk3 VR6?



## Sergei (Apr 18, 2002)

I want to put Mk3 style front suspension into Mk4 Golf. Does anybody know will Mk4 outer CV joints fit Mk3 VR6 hubs?


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## Blk95VR6 (Nov 9, 2000)

The first question I would have to ask is why?

The next question I will ask is: do you want to install a four lug for a five lug front suspension into your car? I think the short answer would be "no", as the suspension components would probably have to be cobbled together from various makes and models of cars to make it all fit. Then, you would have to work out the number of splines on your axle itself, as Mark four and Mark three cars more than likely have different numbers of splines for their outer hubs. Without having the axles in front of me to compare them, I could not tell you for certain how many splines are on each axle, but I would bet that they are much different.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

*I wasn't able to put the Mk2/3 outer on the Mk4 CV joint because the diameter of the shaft was larger on the mk4.


*_I put Audi TT uprights, coilovers and Control arms in my Mk2. 

I used 5lug with Mk4 hubs. 

I used OEM Audi Axles, I had to cut the drivers side down .75" and the pass side down 2". _


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## Sergei (Apr 18, 2002)

Blk95VR6 said:


> The first question I would have to ask is why?
> 
> The next question I will ask is: do you want to install a four lug for a five lug front suspension into your car? I think the short answer would be "no", as the suspension components would probably have to be cobbled together from various makes and models of cars to make it all fit. Then, you would have to work out the number of splines on your axle itself, as Mark four and Mark three cars more than likely have different numbers of splines for their outer hubs. Without having the axles in front of me to compare them, I could not tell you for certain how many splines are on each axle, but I would bet that they are much different.


Why: because I currently have very expensive Ohlins Mk2 suspension ($6,000) which I would like to keep. Mk4 is going to be my next rally car. Yes, I want 5 lugs, that is why I am speaking about Mk2 VR6 that has the same 5x100 M14 wheel pattern. I have a hope that outer CV joints would be interchangeable Mk3 VR6 <-> Mk4 but don't know for sure. Regular Mk2 (including 16V) would not fit, but VR6 CV joints are different and I don't know whether they fit. I found one reference with the sizes (including splines number) for Mk3 VR6 http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?234057-CV-Joint-Drawings. But this page does not have info about Mk4 1.8t outer CV joints. Can somebody tell me at least the splines count for MK4?


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

The Mk3 vr axles i had wouldn't accept the mk4 outer cv's.

Im not sure what more you want. go try it


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## Sergei (Apr 18, 2002)

ejg3855 said:


> The Mk3 vr axles i had wouldn't accept the mk4 outer cv's.
> 
> Im not sure what more you want. go try it


You mean that

(1) Mk3 Vr6 axle shaft is not compatible with Mk4 outer CV (diameter or splne # is different)

or

(2) Mk4 outer CV does not fit the Mk3 VR6 hub itself?


If you mean (1) it's fine for my purposes because I would like to use entire Mk4 axle. If (2) then I have a problem.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

I mean 1.

when I first swapped to mk4 hubs I used mk3 vr axles. Then I swapped gear boxes thus creating a demand for 108mm cv flanged axles.


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## Blk95VR6 (Nov 9, 2000)

If I were you Segei, I would put my Ohlins suspension in, sort your outer and inner hubs/joints, THEN get custom axle bars made to join your hubs/joints. I have a MK4 O2M transmission in my car, MK3 outer (4 lug) hubs, and had a custom set of axle bars made to join the two. Just my suggestion...


Mike


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Thats a good suggestion.

Another idea would be to measure the ID and length of the bearing, then measure the OD and Length of the hub, maybe you can press mk4 hubs into mk2 bearings?


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

According to Rock auto the ID of both bearings is the same. The width is different but I'd venture a guess if you use a mk4 hub you'll have plenty of engagement in the bearing

Mk4
Wheel Hub Bearing Kit
Inner Diameter (in)	1.5748
Outer Diameter (in)	2.9133
Width (in)	1.5748

Mk2
Wheel Hub Bearing
Inner Diameter (in)	1.5748
Outer Diameter (in)	2.8346
Width (in)	1.4567


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## Sergei (Apr 18, 2002)

I did the thing that I was supposed to do from the very beginning: called German Autoparts and they confirmed that parts # for outer CV joints for Mk3 VR6 and Mk4 1.8 t are exactly the same. So no problems here.

I also took a close look on the difference of front suspension for Mk3 and Mk4. In Mk3 ball joint "finger" is almost vertical and in Mk4 it is at least 10-15 degrees out of vertical position. So it looks like that if I just put Mk3 hubs into Mk4 body (certainly with some cut & weld at the top of towers) then I would get some insane camber like these 10-15 degrees. For now I have only one idea: drill new 12 mm holes in the VR6 steering knuckles to compensate this angle. But maybe somebody have better solution?


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Sergei said:


> ...
> I also took a close look on the difference of front suspension for Mk3 and Mk4. In Mk3 ball joint "finger" is almost vertical and in Mk4 it is at least 10-15 degrees out of vertical position.


Something does not sound right. Mk2 Balljoints are vertical where as the Corrado Vr and Mk3 VR Knuckles with the ("Plus" wider track/suspension) have ball joints on the angle as you describe. I can't recall what the 4 Lug Mk3 4 cyl used.

Mk4 Outer CV spline is the same as the Mk3 VR spline if that helps. Some Mk4 use a Bolt through the hub into the CV and some have the spline stub that takes a nut like Mk3. All of these Splines are the same, but not sure about hub/bearing diameters in Mk4.

Would need to think about and re-read what you are trying to do to make any specific recommendations.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Sergei said:


> called German Autoparts and they confirmed that parts # for outer CV joints for Mk3 VR6 and Mk4 1.8 t are exactly the same. So no problems here.


I think there must have been a misunderstanding. The outer splines are the same (yes), but the spline on the axle is different. I have the # of splines and measurements somewhere to compare and maybe even pics.

Edit: ohh, you must be talking about Mk4 5speed (i.e. 02j), in which case you are correct. I was referring to Mk4 6speed axle spline, Sorry..


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## Sergei (Apr 18, 2002)

sdezego said:


> Something does not sound right. Mk2 Balljoints are vertical where as the Corrado Vr and Mk3 VR Knuckles with the ("Plus" wider track/suspension) have ball joints on the angle as you describe. I can't recall what the 4 Lug Mk3 4 cyl used.
> 
> Mk4 Outer CV spline is the same as the Mk3 VR spline if that helps. Some Mk4 use a Bolt through the hub into the CV and some have the spline stub that takes a nut like Mk3. All of these Splines are the same, but not sure about hub/bearing diameters in Mk4.
> 
> Would need to think about and re-read what you are trying to do to make any specific recommendations.


Really? I actually don't have VR6 knuckles, I only have regular Golf 2 and Corrado G60 (probably) in front of me and they are with vertical ball joint position. So you are saying that that I can be so lucky that even the caster would be OK with VR6 knuckles? What means "Plus" suspension? Can I just buy any Mk3 VR6 Golf/Jetta knuckles or I should look for some specific modifications?

By the way, I currently have 02A transmission in my Golf 2 (actually the case only, the internal is dog box). Do I understand correctly that 02J case has different shape so 108 mm flanges fir it (but does not fit 02A)? So I need to buy 02J on junk yard and put all gears in it if I want to use Mk4 axles?


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Let me Clarify:

When I say outer CV splines are the same for Corrado VR, Mk3 VR and Mk4 (I am referring to the CV spline to hub). I am not sure about the CV Spline to axle. I know the Axle Spline on the Mk4 6 Speed is definitely different than Mk3. I am not sure about the Mk4 5 Speed axle splines, but 5 speed axles are longer than 6 speed. Based on what other people posted, I am guessing that the Mk4 5 speed axles may have the same spline as mk4 6 speed (def different than Mk3 VR).



Sergei said:


> Really? I actually don't have VR6 knuckles, I only have regular Golf 2 and Corrado G60 (probably) in front of me and they are with vertical ball joint position. So you are saying that that I can be so lucky that even the caster would be OK with VR6 knuckles? What means "Plus" suspension? Can I just buy any Mk3 VR6 Golf/Jetta knuckles or I should look for some specific modifications?


Mk2 and yes Corrado G60 (mostly Mk2) use same vertical Ball Joints knuckles. Corrado VR (mostly Mk3) and Mk3 with Wider plus suspension and 5 lug both used spindles/knuckles with angled Ball joints. How these stack up to the Mk4, I don't know (other than strut mount which we know is TOTALLY different). Also, just for random more info, Caliper mounts and rotor offsets are different between Mk2 and Mk3 "plus". This is different than Mk4 too, but only about 10mm if I recall as that is what I recall using when putting large Mk4 Rotors and calipers on my Mk3 VR spindles. 

I would be really surprised if you are able to use the Mk3 Spindles on the Mk4, but who knows. What is the Diameter of your strut tube in Comparison to the Mk4 Spindle? Can you just remove the brackets and slip them in the Mk4?





Sergei said:


> By the way, I currently have 02A transmission in my Golf 2 (actually the case only, the internal is dog box). Do I understand correctly that 02J case has different shape so 108 mm flanges fir it (but does not fit 02A)? So I need to buy 02J on junk yard and put all gears in it if I want to use Mk4 axles?


02j did come with 100mm and 108mm flanges on Vr6 that interchange with each other, but I don't know if you can sway them onto an 02a. I want to say no, but you need better confirmation than that.


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