# The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

Here's the definitive Non-A/C Scirocco Post. 
****If anybody has some good pics of a 16v cut down bracket out of the car, I'll stick that in this post, and belt info too!!!****
*=====================================*
*Factory non-A/C setup (for 8v)*

_Quote, originally posted by *Part Numbers* »_
8v Pulley Part Numbers - Non-A/C - 126 121 031 
With A/C 127 121 031 
With PS 127 121 031 A
Belt 9.5x950mm 026 903 137 C
Alternator Bracket Part Numbers - 
Non-A/C Bracket - Lower 049 903 103 B; 
Upper - 026 903 245 A


The alternator is supposed to be a 55A or a 65A bosch alternator with a square plug. The 8v non-A/C brackets are simple:








The non-A/C pullies are also simple:








The belt is easy to get:









This is the difference between alternator plugs:








If using a 65A alt, 8gauge wire is fine, if using 90A, I suggest upgrading to 4 gauge cable.








*=====================================*
*Early Factory non-A/C setup for 8v*
This is from very early cars...









*=====================================*
*Factory non-A/C setup (for 16v!!!)*
Here's some more 16v info, courtesy of David Fertal in MD...

_Quote, originally posted by *Part Numbers* »_
the part # for the non-ac, non- power steering bracket is 051 260 885
the part # for the non-ac, power steering bracket is 027 260 885 P
alternator pulley is part # 049 903 119 L
belt is 050 903 137 and is a 10mm x 950 length
*65 amp non-A/C alternator*
Bosch AL171X
Worldwide 14936 (price as of 2/6/09 is $118.49)










The Power steering version:








The alternator only version (isn't it awesome?)








These are the arms. The new lookin one has the provision for the star bolt, which makes tensioning the belt a lot easier...








Here's a pic of that correct alternator pulley:









_Quote, originally posted by *Dave* »_i think there might be a version for the 2.0l 16v also......that one bolts
to the face of the block, instead of using the normal bracket at the top of
the block that the 1.8 uses.

(more to come...)

*=====================================*
*Cut the bracket method (16v Only)*
Somebody can IM/mail/post some pics about this?
_Under Construction_

_Quote, originally posted by *Part Numbers* »_
*90 amp A/C alternator*
Bosch AL34X
Worldwide 14799 (price as of 2/6/09 is $128.49)
The belt is a 11mm wide by 950mm long belt. It appears that this is the maximum width you would want to go. sciroccojim's belt is a Dayco Top Cog 11A0950 - you can get that at any autoparts store.

So far, I know what belt (see below), and here's the pics:
Here's some pictures of sciroccojim's setup that I took on Sunday...
































*=====================================*
*Alternate Setups* (Pun intended!)








*=====================================*
*Mk3 ABA A/C bracket as non-A/C (works on 8v and 16v)*

_Quote, originally posted by *Part Numbers* »_
The belt for this setup is a serpentine 6PK x 1035mm 
You also need the waterpump pulley from a 12v VR6 to make this work. The Part number is 028 121 031 K
*ABA* - A/C Mk3 setup with auto-tensioner
*90 amp A/C alternator*
BOSCH part number AL0181X
Worldwide reman part number: 14624
*120 amp high output A/C alternator *
BOSCH part number AL0184X
Worldwide reman part number 14623


Mk3 ABA. This one is VERY easy to find in the salvage yard. Get it off of any Mk3 2.0L 8v with A/C. These are a dime a dozen. get the alternator too, and all the mounting bolts. The bolts bolt the waterpump onto the block, and have studs that this bracket mounts to.
Advantage: Parts are easy and cheap to get. You can get belts and alternators from joe blow's autoparts store.
Disadvantage: On mk2 sciroccos - you have to bang in the frame rail a bit to clear the tensioner bolt on the arm.
















Grab list:
Bracket with tensioner arm (2.0 8v)
Alternator (90A) (2.0 8v)
Bolts, and nuts that hold it to the waterpump (2.0 8v)
Crank pulley (2.0 8v)
Waterpump Pulley from a 12v VR6









*=====================================*
*ABF Mk3 16v Setup - works on 8v and 16v*








The ABF bracket is similar to the ABA one, except there's no tensioner. You use the same pullies, ABA crank, the 028 121 031 K pulley from the VR6, and the same bolts to mount it to the block.
Advantage: No banging the frame rail in!
Disadvantage: Can be $ to get, alternator is kinda hard to find

_Quote, originally posted by *Part Numbers* »_The belt for this setup is a Conti 6PK 894
The 90A alternator is Bosch AL0187X (VW # 028 903 025 P)
The 70A alternator is Bosch AL0185X (VW # 030 903 023 B)
The 120A VR6 alternator, Bosch AL0184X (VW # Part #028 903 027 P) that * DOES NOT WORK FOR THIS*
Ask for a 96 Jetta TDI non-A/C alternator, many FLAPS can order them

*ABF* - Non-A/C Mk3 setup
Calling this "ABF" is kinda misleading, as ABA mk3 cars did come to the US without A/C. There were some very interesting variations of them as well.
Did you know, you could buy a 1996 Jetta GL with no A/C, but with power windows and locks? Whacko!








*70 amp non-A/C alternator* Spring tensioner
Bosch part number: AL0185X or 0-123-315-001
Worldwide Reman part number: 14356 (price as of 2/6/09 is $119.49)
VW part numbers: 028 903 025 G and 030 903 023 E
Valeo part numbers: 2541821 or 436363 or 439000 or A11VI66
Lucas (LOL) part number: A6785
*90 amp non-A/C alternator*
Bosch part number: AL0187X or 0-123-320-002
Worldwide Reman part number: 14358 (price as of 2/6/09 is $164.49)
VW part numbers: 028 903 025 P and 030 903 023 F
ACDelco part number: 321-1712
Lucas Part number: A6786
Valeo part numbers: 2541814 or 2541814A or 436443 or 439002 or A13VI123
*Belts that might fit a mk3 non-A/C setup:*
These are six-rib serpentine belts - that's what the 6pk means. Measurements are in mm)
PROPER belt - Continental 6PK 0894 (this belt has 6 ribs, and it is 894mm long)
other belts:
DAYCO 5060390 (it's 6pk by 0990mm)
DAYCO 0560455 (it's 6pk by 1155mm) and I don't think this is right!
DriveRite 390K6
Gates 6708 or K060388 or K060390
VW part number 999.192.283.50








Notice the spring:








That's what tensions the alternator. You loosen the pivot bolt, and the 19mm tension bolt, and let the spring tension the alternator, then you just tighten the bolts and roll!
















I think that's the ideal setup, especially for the 16v. The beautiful thing is that you can keep power steering if you have it - just keep the Mk3's power steering pulley when you grab the crank pulley.
You gotta buy this from a euro parts source (such as Mr. Andy!







), or, there's a guy on the vortex who sells this setup new for a pretty good price. (I'm sure he'll bump his thread after I post this







)


_Modified by TheTimob at 10:20 PM 2-7-2009_


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## TooClutchVW (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

very thorough timbo!!! well from my recent experience the belt is a 10x950 for non a/c car with power steering but when switching I realized you can run the stock 13x950 belt also but its really your personal preference


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## pbpube16v (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

bump this up, it sorta went unnoticed
timbo ill be able to post up a pic of a ground down stock alternator bracket soon. i'm in the process of having to do that







itll be a day or two tho


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (pbpube16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pbpube16v* »_
timbo ill be able to post up a pic of a ground down stock alternator bracket soon. i'm in the process of having to do that







itll be a day or two tho

Cool. Thanks dude! Let us know what belt you end up with as well.









Just some Non-A/C Scirocco Specific Info (I moved if from the OP)
*=====================================*
_*This first part is just info on what a non-A/C rocco looks like*_
Here is the center console of a Factory non-A/C Scirocco. This one has gauges replacing the radio, but otherwise stock.








There are 3 speeds on my fan, and 3 levers. The left lever opens and closes the foot vents. The right lever opens and closes the defroster vents. The air that doesn't go out those goes out the center vent.








The side vents only get non-heated air.
The fan is not covered, and there is no giant duct thingy in there. Another bonus - the vents are controled by cables, not vacuum lines - so no vacuum leaks!!!








Also notice the shelf under the glovebox. That's the non-A/C shelf... I've seen them sell for $$$ because of their rarity.
_Modified by timbo2132 at 8:45 AM 7-25-2007_


_Modified by TheTimob at 10:22 PM 2-7-2009_


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## pbpube16v (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*


_Quote, originally posted by *timbo2132* »_
Cool. Thanks dude! Let us know what belt you end up with as well.









10-4. roger that!


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## kalamos23 (Jul 23, 2005)

my bad, wrong thread...


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## Ryan9118 (Sep 14, 2005)

This is perfect, I was just starting to look for this information again. Hope to see more info on deleting it in 16v's soon.


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## pbpube16v (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: (Ryan9118)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ryan9118* »_ Hope to see more info on deleting it in 16v's soon.

I'm halfway thru this process actually, and so far the only hard part was NOT shearing one of the alternator bracket bolts





















. gonna order some today (i'm hopin P4VWs has them, if not theres another site i can get 'em from), and as soon as i get 'em ill start workin.
i can go ahead and tell you what i already know (sans pictures, which sucks i know







)
1) remove everything in the way of the a/c compressor and condensor (a/c lines, upper rad hose, rad, alternator, and remove the bolt holding the ps pump to the alternator bracket)
2) unbolt and remove the alternator bracket (youll have to remove the upper timin belt cover in order to get access to the uppermost bolt, which you need an allen key to remove







)
3) youll probably have to grind the metal around the rightside mount where the a/c compressor used to bolt to. and then you have two options: 1) cut off/ grind down the entire section where the alternator used to mount, or 2) grind down just enough of the bracket to allow the alternator (in the a/c compressor location) to articulate upwards quite a ways. in either case, i recommend keeping the uppermost mount (the one where you had to use a hex key) intact for added strength.
4) my alternator wouldnt fit in the a/c compressor location because it wasn't wide enough, but all i had to do to fix that was get some heavy duty vice grips and pinch that sleeve in the mount on the alternator and knock it outwards.
5) next step is to bolt it all in place (this is as far as i got before that cursed bolt crapped out







), but i did notice two things that must be corrected: 1) the stock pulley won't line up with the others, and 2) the long steel thing that bolts to the top of the alternator will need some washers behind it to make it line up correctly with the alternator in it's new place.
6) fix the two problems in step 5 with washers and loctite
7) use _____ belt for this new setup (TBA when i figure it out







)
8) put everything back together and behold! you just shed a bajillion pounds








when i get more work done on this i'll update this procedure with pictures and maybe a better procedure haha. i'm not as detailed as timbo, but i didnt leave any important information out


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: (pbpube16v)*

Check the OP for pics of the 16v cut bracket setup...


_Modified by timbo2132 at 8:56 AM 7-25-2007_


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: (timbo2132)*

Bump for the nighty-nite crew...


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

So, to sum up:
Vbelt:
8v: Stock non-A/C - inexpensive, and easy
16v: Cut bracket - pretty much free
Serpentine belt: (works both for 8v and 16v)
ABA - inexpensive, and easy way, but requires framerail "modification" on both Mk1 and Mk2 roccos. (mk1 to a lesser extent)
ABF - Ideal, but expensive to get.


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: (pbpube16v)*

Hey, Derek, did ya get that belt done?


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

Here's some more 16v info, courtesy of David Fertal in MD...
the part # for the non-ac, non- power steering bracket is 051 260 885
the part # for the non-ac, power steering bracket is 027 260 885 P








The Power steering version:








The alternator only version (isn't it awesome?)








These are the arms. The new lookin one has the provision for the star bolt, which makes tensioning the belt a lot easier...









_Quote, originally posted by *Dave* »_i think there might be a version for the 2.0l 16v also......that one bolts
to the face of the block, instead of using the normal bracket at the top of
the block that the 1.8 uses.



_Modified by TheTimob at 10:23 PM 2-7-2009_


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## pbpube16v (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: (timbo2132)*


_Quote, originally posted by *timbo2132* »_Hey, Derek, did ya get that belt done?

havnt had loads of time for the rocc lately (working= http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif ), plus my bolts and other stuff from p4vw should be here tomorrow...ish...
im gonna go work on it today, i finally have some free time and i have some new euro parts to put on







*big thanks to Tim Chunks, and soon everyone will see why*


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

For Factory 16v non-A/C bracket:
alternator pulley is part # 049 903 119 L
belt is 050 903 137 and is a 10mm x 950 length


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## pbpube16v (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: (timbo2132)*

i got a little work done today, nothing special. i forgot my camera tho






















i tried a 10x950 belt with my setup and it was too small, the stock upper alternator arm thing wouldn't reach the alternator. if a long enough turnbuckle was used in lieu of that arm it'd be fine. i'm just gonna work on finding a large enough belt for it, gonna try a 10x1245 and see if thatll work.
once the whole setup is in place i'll post pics


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## MK1Scirocco1980 (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: (pbpube16v)*

Explain to me, Timbo....
Why in the hell do you still rock with a 1.8L 8V?

You have the knowledge, ability, and time....upgrade that to something worth that MSnS you have installed


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: (MK1Scirocco1980)*

Well, I'm actually happy with the power I have here in my 1.8.

I use this car as a highway cruiser, putting about 16,000 miles a year. I just need it to be reliable, get good milage.
As a bonus, the 1.8 looks clean if you shave most everything!








EDIT: I updated the OP with the 16v non-A/C alternator pulley...


_Modified by timbo2132 at 8:46 AM 7-25-2007_


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## markeysscirocco (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

Do we know where the guys that sells the Non-A/C setup is?


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## markeysscirocco (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

or how to contact Mr. Andy!?


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## GTgary (Aug 30, 2006)

I want to go with the factory non a/c setup for an 8v and I was wondering if I just need the upper and lower bracket?


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: (GTgary)*

If you have an A/C car - you should just need the alternator arm.
I think later A/C cars already have that lower bracket holding the A/C bracket on. They also have most of the upper bracket there - but the arm that goes to the alternator is different.


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (markeysscirocco)*

Andy (polov8)'s profile is here http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...40901

Or, check this thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3350414


_Modified by timbo2132 at 8:32 AM 9-15-2007_


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## red16vman (Mar 16, 2006)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

I'm in the middle of an engine swap and just removed the a/c compressor. I noticed it wouldn't take much to get the alternator in the a/c bracket, just a bit of shaving as others have mentioned. But then you need the pulley to stick out farther. Does a non a/c 16v alternator have a pulley that sticks out farther? If so, I could just put on that pulley and be good to go! Or is there a 16v non a/c bracket that would be a better option?


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (red16vman)*

The 16v was never sold in the US market without A/C - that means that cutting/shaving and all that are your only options.
Now, you could shim the pully with lots of washers to make it stick out farther.
You could also have a machine shop turn a new pulley for you - it's a pretty simple thing for a shop to do. They just have to copy the dimensions and make it longer.


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## 53BGTX (Jun 16, 2005)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*


_Quote, originally posted by *timbo2132* »_The 16v was never sold in the US market without A/C

timbo, the 88 Scirocco 16v I just bought, is a US spec. model without A/C from the factory. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the car yet, because it is in California awaiting shipment to Florida








If you have any questions about my non A/C car, please ask *Zender* he is the person who purchased the car for me


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## RoccoRacer (Oct 22, 2001)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (53BGTX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *53BGTX* »_timbo, the 88 Scirocco 16v I just bought, is a US spec. model without A/C from the factory. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the car yet, because it is in California awaiting shipment to Florida








If you have any questions about my non A/C car, please ask *Zender* he is the person who purchased the car for me









I had an '87 16v without AC, or a sunroof! They DO exist








Unfortunately it had a cracked radiator support and no title, so it got chopped.








But it did have Power Steering, so the bracket looks like the one above for non-AC w/PS










_Modified by RoccoRacer at 11:42 AM 9-17-2007_


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## red16vman (Mar 16, 2006)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (RoccoRacer)*

My car doesn't have a sunroof but it does have A/C. Too bad it wasn't switched around seeing as I'm getting rid of the a/c anyway. 
oh, and if there really was non a/c 16v sciroccos sold in the U.S then perhaps ordering such brackets is just a phone call away... gonna call a dealer...


_Modified by red16vman at 3:23 PM 9-17-2007_


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## red16vman (Mar 16, 2006)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (red16vman)*

HAHAHAHA...yeah, nevermind that. unless you feel like forking out $451 for a non a/c bracket. But at least we all know it's possible.
Time for me to do some shaving


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## Applejackedme (May 21, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (red16vman)*

Non A/C 16v 








and apparently the uber rare under glove box shelf.


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Applejackedme)*

didint see this mentioned, but to use the ABA setup on a 16v you need to run the ABF waterneck, which can be purchased through oldschoolindusties for $30 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
the tensioner runs into the stock housing...supposidly there is a tension the VW made that is smaller and will work with the stock coolant neck...working on getting a PN


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Applejackedme)*

wow! That is awesome! It's the perfect setup! Factory non-A/C 16v!!


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## Applejackedme (May 21, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

I actually got quite lucky when I bought mine. Crack free dash, non/ac 16v... unaltered parcel shelf in the rear, only interior blemishes of course are the bolsters on the driver seat, and the headliner could use a bath. I am considering reupholstering the seats in stock color matching suede, any thoughts on that.


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Applejackedme)*

That sounds nice. I love the heater controls on Non-A/C cars. So much simpler and more reliable.
Is your car non-sunroof as well? I thought that was a standard 16v thing too for a while, but I've seen a few now.


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## Applejackedme (May 21, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

No I have a sunroof, which is odd.. Nowadays you would get a/c as an option long before a sunroof.


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## GLi_Luva (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

For the power hungry, you can use a 120 amp alternator from a VR6 if you swap the ABA alternator pully on. Pictured is the VR pulley, that has been corrected though:


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## Tim Chunks (Oct 8, 2005)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

Sweet I got to delete my a/c good info to have. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Tim Chunks)*

Ok, now I need to know some things:
Here is the pic from ETKA for belts:








I have a 16v, but the belt setups should be the same. I follow the lower left picture? THe alternator is run directly off the crank and nothing else? Or is this picture wrong? Do I need the idler pulley on the wp? Anybody got any belt shots of a factory 16v non-AC setup? Thanks!


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (VDub2625)*

I think in the case of a 16v, you run the v-belt around the water pump, the crank and the alternator.
The v-belt for the power steering runs from the crank to the waterpump's outter pulley to the steering pump.

In an ABF serp setup, you would do what a Mk3 has - serp to the alt and waterpump from the crank, and the power steering from a v-belt pulley bolted onto the crank pulley that goes to the pump.


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## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

Damn! I don't want to use that water pump pulley.
Here's something I found on a UK GTI website. It's the belt setup from a 6A and KR 16v, I believe:








I wanna do this. Anyone know the belt sizes, or water pump pulley part number?


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (VDub2625)*

THe water pump pulley there looks the same as the 8v non-A/C one. That looks like a Mk3 power steering pulley and belt on the crank.


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## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

I wonder if that is the mk3 ABA belt? How does the crank pulley and ps pump pulley look different from the regular Mk2 ones?


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## Shislerocco (Jul 22, 2002)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (VDub2625)*

here are some factory non AC parts i got from a friend in the UK. 








i wish i had more pictures of the setup on my car but i dont. 
it is just one V belt going from the crank pulley to the waterpump pulley to the alternator and that is that.


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## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Shislerocco)*

That bracket looks like it's for AC and alternator, but no PS?


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## Shislerocco (Jul 22, 2002)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (VDub2625)*

yeah it is the non AC non PS bracket. i took at the PS also. are you still running the PS?


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## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Shislerocco)*

That bracket looks like it's designed for AC and alternator mounts. I think I'll just get an 8v non-AC water pump pulley and run my PS like the pic I posted before.
I still have my PS, so I need part number 027 260 885 P, which is listed in the OP. But, there's something else I'm confused about, 051 260 885 A is in ETKA as "alt. mount for cars with power steering", and the other part number was dropped in 2002, without replacement. Wonder if they're any different?


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## Bigwiggen (Sep 13, 2004)

i have a 2.0 16v ac ps, and i want to delete the ac, what do i need? so confused? do i still use my factory alternator?


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: (Bigwiggen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bigwiggen* »_i have a 2.0 16v ac ps, and i want to delete the ac, what do i need? so confused? do i still use my factory alternator?

You use your factory alternator with a longer pulley. You mount it where the A/C compressor is mounted now. You can cut the alternator mount off the bracket.


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## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: (timbo2132)*

There's actually 3 options, increasing in cost, complexity, and reducing ghettoness as you go up








The first option (and it's perfectly fine imho, I did it), is to get an 8v alternator pulley from a car with AC. Put that on your alternator (may need a washer or two to space it perfectly), and run a bigger belt. 41 or 42" should be sufficent.
The second option is described in the OP, and by the previous poster. Move your alternator down to the AC mount, cut the old alt mount out of the way, use a different belt, and a new pulley. I think you also need a new upper arm. The benefit to this over the previous method is that the belt isn't HUGE, and it looks a little better








The third method is to use all the OEM brackets and pulleys and belts. This is what I'm going to do next. it looks the cleanest.


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: (VDub2625)*

There's also the 4th and 5th methods!
Serpentine Mk3 2.0 ABA A/C setup (with A/C removed), and Serpentine ABF non-A/C 16v setup!


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## Bigwiggen (Sep 13, 2004)

ok the oem bracket? do i need to space out the pully on the alternator?


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## Shislerocco (Jul 22, 2002)

*Re: (Bigwiggen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bigwiggen* »_ok the oem bracket? do i need to space out the pully on the alternator?

oem bracket for AC or non-AC are you talking here?
i know for the AC bracket that is cut you need to space out the pulley or get a diff pulley that is spaced out already in the casting.


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## Bigwiggen (Sep 13, 2004)

im talking about buying the non ac bracket


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## 98DUB (Feb 21, 2003)

*Re: (Bigwiggen)*

I am running a 16v in my mk1. I want to delete the A/C and PS. Can someone explain the ways in which i can do this? I read the thread and got kind of confused. thanks in advance.


----------



## red16vman (Mar 16, 2006)

*Re: (98DUB)*

Kinda skipped thru this thread so I hope I'm not repeating anything. I deleted the A/C in my 16V rocco but taking the mount and grinding the crap out of it to fit the alternator in its spot. Threw out the alternator belt, used the A/C belt instead. Use a spacer on the alternator pulley to align belt...
gonna do a lot of work on my car this summer, so if I ever pull off the alternator I'll be sure to take a pic of the bracket.


----------



## european_rocc (Apr 16, 2008)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

i am kind of confused, why would volkswagen change part of the interior of a car just because it had AC? the passenger shelf just makes no sence.


_Modified by european_rocc at 12:42 AM 7-13-2008_


----------



## Iroczgirl (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (european_rocc)*

You have no passenger side shelf in an A/C car because the A/C ducting gets in the way, hence there is nowhere to mount the shelf.


----------



## Deez_Nutz (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

I don't see the important step of mailing me your old compressors








('cause this will be one procedure that'll NEVER get done on ANY of my VWs......)

(I'm not jk about sending me those compressors.....lol)
(I'll also take those pass-trays too.....they make great work-trays in place of a passenger's seat... muhahahahahaa)


_Modified by Deez_Nutz at 11:55 PM 7-13-2008_


----------



## 98DUB (Feb 21, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Deez_Nutz)*

Let me see if i got this all straight:
I have a 1.8l 16v. I want to delete my Power Sterring and A/C.
I am going to run:
- Mk3 2.0l alternator and tensioner bracket, with billet alt pulley.
- ABA Crank pulley, prolly the billet one from gruven and have it machined .236". I could run it without the v-belt part of it right?
- VR6 12v Water Pump Pulley, again the billet one from Gruven.
Does that sound correct to everyone?
pic of the ABA crank pulley. I want it without the v-belt pulley


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (98DUB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98DUB* »_Let me see if i got this all straight:
I have a 1.8l 16v. I want to delete my Power Sterring and A/C.
I am going to run:
- Mk3 2.0l alternator and tensioner bracket, with billet alt pulley.
- ABA Crank pulley, prolly the billet one from gruven and have it machined .236". I could run it without the v-belt part of it right?
- VR6 12v Water Pump Pulley, again the billet one from Gruven.
Does that sound correct to everyone?
pic of the ABA crank pulley. I want it without the v-belt pulley










ABA is cheaper, ABF is better because you don't have to use a hammer to clearance the framerail for the ABA tensioner. 

ABA the belt is 6PK1080 or something around that legnth (the last 3 or 4 numbers are in mm)
ABF the belt is 6PK894


----------



## Amsterdam087 (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*

Good stuff in here, glad it got bumped.
Added to watched topics for future refrance.


----------



## 98DUB (Feb 21, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (timbo2132)*


_Quote, originally posted by *timbo2132* »_

ABA is cheaper, ABF is better because you don't have to use a hammer to clearance the framerail for the ABA tensioner. 

ABA the belt is 6PK1080 or something around that legnth (the last 3 or 4 numbers are in mm)
ABF the belt is 6PK894
 

I am gonna do the ABA, and clearance is only needed on the scirocco's correct? i have a mk1 jetta.
Also, i have read that the ABA crank pulley needs to be machined down .236", is this correct? and oh the inside im guessing?



_Modified by 98DUB at 11:54 AM 8-19-2008_


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (98DUB)*

Yeah -I've heard that Mk1 Scirocco, Mk1 Jetta and rabbits do not need that hammer clearancing. 
Shaving all that off accounts for the wider 16v timing belt. 8v people can use an ABA pulley unmodified.


----------



## Star Child (Feb 28, 2000)

To add a little more content to this thread - 
Canadian sciroccos are/were predominantly non-A/C, especially on the west coast. So non-A/C parts are a lot more common up here. 
In order to do a a real kick-ass non-A/C swap you're going to have to swap out the heater box itself along with the HVAC panel. This is not a trivial operation, however! The boxes themselves are different, and more importantly, the hole in the raintray where the fan sticks up through is sized differently. The center console pieces are also different, and this is why A/C cars can't use the under dash tray. 
This is where I hit a dead-end with my car. You can either do it ghetto style and use foam tape or acoustic sealant, or go all in and replace the raintray itself with a cut-out piece from a non-A/C car. 


_Modified by Star Child at 11:13 AM 9-4-2008_


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Star Child)*

You might be able to make an adapter plate out of a sheet of aluminum or steel or plastic using rubber seals. The A/C hole is bigger than the non-A/C hole. You also need to cover the recirculation hole on the passenger side of the raintray.


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (TheTimob)*

I got some info today on some interesting junks:

*ABF* - Non-A/C Mk3 setup
Calling this "ABF" is kinda misleading, as ABA mk3 cars did come to the US without A/C. There were some very interesting variations of them as well.
Did you know, you could buy a 1996 Jetta GL with no A/C, but with power windows and locks? Whacko!








*70 amp non-A/C alternator* Spring tensioner
Bosch part number: AL0185X or 0-123-315-001
Worldwide Reman part number: 14356 (price as of 2/6/09 is $119.49)
VW part numbers: 028 903 025 G and 030 903 023 E
Valeo part numbers: 2541821 or 436363 or 439000 or A11VI66
Lucas (LOL) part number: A6785
*90 amp non-A/C alternator*
Bosch part number: AL0187X or 0-123-320-002
Worldwide Reman part number: 14358 (price as of 2/6/09 is $164.49)
VW part numbers: 028 903 025 P and 030 903 023 F
ACDelco part number: 321-1712
Lucas Part number: A6786
Valeo part numbers: 2541814 or 2541814A or 436443 or 439002 or A13VI123
*Belts that might fit a mk3 non-A/C setup:*
These are six-rib serpentine belts - that's what the 6pk means. Measurements are in mm)
PROPER belt - Continental 6PK 0894 (this belt has 6 ribs, and it is 894mm long)
other belts:
DAYCO 5060390 (it's 6pk by 0990mm)
DAYCO 0560455 (it's 6pk by 1155mm) and I don't think this is right!
DriveRite 390K6
Gates 6708 or K060388 or K060390
VW part number 999.192.283.50

*ABA* - A/C Mk3 setup with auto-tensioner
*90 amp A/C alternator*
BOSCH part number AL0181X
Worldwide reman part number: 14624
*120 amp high output A/C alternator *
BOSCH part number AL0184X
Worldwide reman part number 14623

*STARTER*
Interesting fact: Mk3 starters fit our cars, they bolt in, have a better style connector that doesn't always fall off, cranks faster, and is quieter! You'll need to get the connector pigtail from a salvage yard mk3 and crimp it to your stock solenoid wire.
Bosch part number on that is SR0402X (price as of 2/6/09 is $179.99)
Wordwide reman: 17255 (price as of 2/6/09 is $123.49)

*16v alternators *
*90 amp A/C alternator*
Bosch AL34X
Worldwide 14799 (price as of 2/6/09 is $128.49)
*65 amp non-A/C alternator*
Bosch AL171X
Worldwide 14936 (price as of 2/6/09 is $118.49)
*Other high output alternators that look like they MIGHT fit with a pulley swap. (I CANNOT GUARANTEE THAT THEY WILL FIT - THEY HAVE THE SAME STYLE MOUNTING)*
1990 Audi 200 Quattro 10v
_110 amp_ Bosch AL179X
worldwide 14912
1993 Audi V8 Quattro 4.2L
_115 amp_ Bosch AL174X
worldwide 14911


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*FV-QR*

I need to read this fully so I can reverse engineer an A/C system onto a non-A/C car. I hate summertime.


----------



## Scirocco Manifesto (May 17, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (TheTimob)*

With a 16v all I need to get rid of my AC comp. is a new alternator pulley, right?
part # 049 903 119 L


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Scirocco Manifesto)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco Manifesto* »_With a 16v all I need to get rid of my AC comp. is a new alternator pulley, right?
part # 049 903 119 L









In your case, all bets are off - because god only knows what they did to get all that A/C stuff into your 16v!


----------



## Road Boss (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (TheTimob)*

This is a great thread! I think I'm gonna use the aba to delete my a/c.


----------



## Scirocco Manifesto (May 17, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (TheTimob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheTimob* »_
In your case, all bets are off - because god only knows what they did to get all that A/C stuff into your 16v!

I'm pretty sure they installed the standard bracket for the A/C comp. and alternator, so in that case would just replacing the alternator pulley work?


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Scirocco Manifesto)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco Manifesto* »_
I'm pretty sure they installed the standard bracket for the A/C comp. and alternator, so in that case would just replacing the alternator pulley work?

I'm not sure on that. In Raulito's car - the alternator was mounted on an 8v alt bracket that was slighlty modified for the 16v alternator.


----------



## Scirocco Manifesto (May 17, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (TheTimob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheTimob* »_
I'm not sure on that. In Raulito's car - the alternator was mounted on an 8v alt bracket that was slighlty modified for the 16v alternator.

Interesting....
I guess I'll pull the alternator to get a better look at the bracket and see what craziness is going on down there.


----------



## Scirocco Manifesto (May 17, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Scirocco Manifesto)*

I'm just leaving my last post.


_Modified by Scirocco Manifesto at 10:09 PM 2-19-2009_


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Scirocco Manifesto)*

I think it looks normal...
Just mount your alternator where da compressor is now.


----------



## Scirocco Manifesto (May 17, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (TheTimob)*

and if I do that will I need a new pulley or just a different belt?


----------



## Scirocco Manifesto (May 17, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Scirocco Manifesto)*

And thanks for all the help, I should be taking the comp. out tomorrow


----------



## Scirocco Manifesto (May 17, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Scirocco Manifesto)*

Just leaving my last post.


_Modified by Scirocco Manifesto at 10:09 PM 2-19-2009_


----------



## Scirocco Manifesto (May 17, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Scirocco Manifesto)*

Here is my setup (you said you needed more info?)
Alternator Pulley from a mk1 65a Alt. (with a spacer removed)
11mm x 955mm Belt
and a cut bracket



The alternator had 2 spacers between the pulley and the fan, I took the lager spacer and put it on the inside of the pulley in order to get the right offset.

and the rest:



Works Great http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by Scirocco Manifesto at 3:58 PM 2-20-2009_


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Scirocco Manifesto)*

That is damned good looking! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## markeysscirocco (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (pbpube16v)*

Ok So where saying cut the alternator bracket and mount it in the A/C position (16V) and change out the pulley and add washers or metal insert bushing between Alt and Adjust arm brace!?


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## Scirocco Manifesto (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (markeysscirocco)*

Yep it's quite simple, and there is a noticeable gain in power








plus it only cost me $18 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rabbitarmy (Nov 16, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheTimob* »_
*ABF* - Non-A/C Mk3 setup
*70 amp non-A/C alternator* Spring tensioner
Bosch part number: AL0185X or 0-123-315-001
Worldwide Reman part number: 14356 (price as of 2/6/09 is $119.49)
VW part numbers: 028 903 025 G and 030 903 023 E
Valeo part numbers: 2541821 or 436363 or 439000 or A11VI66
Lucas (LOL) part number: A6785
*90 amp non-A/C alternator*
Bosch part number: AL0187X or 0-123-320-002
Worldwide Reman part number: 14358 (price as of 2/6/09 is $164.49)
VW part numbers: 028 903 025 P and 030 903 023 F
ACDelco part number: 321-1712
Lucas Part number: A6786
Valeo part numbers: 2541814 or 2541814A or 436443 or 439002 or A13VI123


I haven't been able to pull any of those up on world pac








But I did find these on ebay for $110:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...l1116
The price is certainly good, I contacted the seller & they are made by a company called Unipoint: http://www.unipoint.com.tw/
And it looks like autozone has the 70amp for about the same price with a $75 core charge.


_Modified by rabbitarmy at 10:35 PM 3-1-2009_


----------



## Scirocco Manifesto (May 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (rabbitarmy)*

Try World Impex they have a lot of the hard to find stuff


----------



## rabbitarmy (Nov 16, 2006)

*FV-QR*

They have one for $190 with a $60 core & the manufacturer is listed as "GENUINE PART"


----------



## markeysscirocco (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (rabbitarmy)*

The only one they have is a 110A Genuine Part @$200.00ea. Fits quite a few VW's


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## markeysscirocco (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Scirocco Manifesto)*

I'm going with the 90A-110A Alternator V-belt single using alternator bracket cut down to accept alternator in upward motion and positioned in the A/C bracket spot. seems to be the most economical as well the most proficient way to go. Cost effective I say with out to much compromise! I found a non A/C pulley (30mm Extension;Converts AL---X to AL---M type alternators) brand new with washers for $19.89 on bestpricecarparts.com


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (TheTimob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheTimob* »_In an ABF serp setup, you would do what a Mk3 has - serp to the alt and waterpump from the crank, and the power steering from a v-belt pulley bolted onto the crank pulley that goes to the pump.

So, to beat a dead horse, you can't use the serp setup to run power steering? The 9A I purchased has the ABA setup with the tensioner and a v-belt running from the crank to the p/s pump. However, I was looking into the ABF just to run one belt. But, it sounds like that isn't possible.
Plus, I really just don't want to hammer my frame rail!










_Modified by scirocco*joe at 11:41 PM 3-5-2009_


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (scirocco*joe)*

Is this what an ABF alternator bracket looks like?








To me, it looks like an ABA bracket, but I could be wrong.


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (scirocco*joe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *scirocco*joe* »_Is this what an ABF alternator bracket looks like?








To me, it looks like an ABA bracket, but I could be wrong.









You ain't wrong, Joe! That's an ABA bracket!


----------



## markeysscirocco (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (Scirocco Manifesto)*

I have pic's of my 87' 16V setup in it's original state. Just to know where to cut the one piece bracket. Pic's should help you help me! Thanks guys!
















_Modified by markeysscirocco at 10:49 PM 3-9-2009_









_Modified by markeysscirocco at 10:51 PM 3-9-2009_

_Modified by markeysscirocco at 10:53 PM 3-9-2009_

_Modified by markeysscirocco at 10:53 PM 3-9-2009_

_Modified by markeysscirocco at 10:54 PM 3-9-2009_

_Modified by markeysscirocco at 10:55 PM 3-9-2009_


_Modified by markeysscirocco at 10:56 PM 3-9-2009_


----------



## markeysscirocco (Oct 23, 2006)

Where, besides a junkyard (which these cars are virtually non existent here in Ohio) can I get the hon A/C alternator only bracket and will his effect power steering and the newer style arm. I know where to get the 33mm pulley. New and cheap! 

_Modified by markeysscirocco at 11:27 PM 3-9-2009_


_Modified by markeysscirocco at 11:28 PM 3-9-2009_


----------



## Scirocco Manifesto (May 17, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (markeysscirocco)*

Its kinda hard to see where to cut when its on the car but when you get it off it will be much easier to see
and this should make it easier to see where to cut (these pics were taken before I cut off the highlighted piece):


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (scirocco*joe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheTimob* »_You ain't wrong, Joe! That's an ABA bracket!

Good news! I'm glad I'm learning something here.
Any chance someone has the answer to my earlier posted question:


_Quote, originally posted by *scirocco*joe* »_
So, to beat a dead horse, you can't use the serp setup to run power steering? The 9A I purchased has the ABA setup with the tensioner and a v-belt running from the crank to the p/s pump. However, I was looking into the ABF just to run one belt. But, it sounds like that isn't possible.
Plus, I really just don't want to hammer my frame rail!


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Joe - I think it might be possible. Take a look at this pic of an ABF bracket:









You can see that little thingie hanging down that looks like a power steering pump may bolt to. Then you could run an ABA crank pulley with the ABA power steering v-belt pulley - and run an ABA power steering pump. I'm not sure if it would work, but maybe!!


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (TheTimob)*

Hmmmm, nice call Timbo! 
Now I need to locate a proper ABF bracket.


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (scirocco*joe)*

Crap! Another question. Can you use an ABA alternator with an ABF bracket?








I'm a serp newb.


----------



## rabbitarmy (Nov 16, 2006)

*FV-QR*

No, you cannot.


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (scirocco*joe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *scirocco*joe* »_Crap! Another question. Can you use an ABA alternator with an ABF bracket?








I'm a serp newb.

Naw, see that big-ol spring? It needs the place in the case of the alternator to spring against.
However, you can swap voltage regulators, and even internals from ABA alternators to ABF cases... You could make a 120A ABF setup if you desired!


----------



## IronTrap (Jun 14, 2001)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheTimob* »_Joe - I think it might be possible. Take a look at this pic of an ABF bracket:









You can see that little thingie hanging down that looks like a power steering pump may bolt to. Then you could run an ABA crank pulley with the ABA power steering v-belt pulley - and run an ABA power steering pump. I'm not sure if it would work, but maybe!!


correct-a-mundo!




_Modified by saddest6day66 at 12:49 AM 3-12-2009_


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (saddest6day66)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saddest6day66* »_
correct-a-mundo!


Excellent! This, I am going to do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thanks for the info, gents. Cheers!


----------



## yachty (May 10, 2009)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (TheTimob)*

I have a Spanish 1994 diesel golf L
Alternator is on way out part 030 903 023E. Valeo 70A
Can any other alt model, and if so which ones, be directly interchangeable without any mods?
Thanks


----------



## VWsEatRice (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (yachty)*

my mk1 jetta came w/o the a/c connected but was still being used as part of the alternator mount
i took out the compressor and bracket and cut them down to the bare minimum and replaced the removed parts w/a old small block chevy alternator arm($10 and chrome) and a few washers
saved a lot of weight,looks a lot cleaner ,uses the OG belt,and i have a piece of chrome

















_Modified by VWsEatRice at 9:44 AM 5-10-2009_


_Modified by VWsEatRice at 9:45 AM 5-10-2009_


----------



## JJ2K1 (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (VWsEatRice)*

Hey guys i've got a question. When you delete your A/C entirely, what do you guys do with the coolant lines that go to the heater box? Do you cap off the lines, or circulate them into each other? There is also an open/close valve on one of the lines, so would you cut that out too, or cap/circulate after the valve? Also, what do you use to plug up the holes going into the cabin? While the interior of the car is stripped, I am planning on running sound deadening in the interior of the car, including the firewall, So I was thinking of buying some think sheet metal and applying it on the inside of the firewall and sound deadening, so later when I pull out my engine and shave my engine bay, all that I will have to do it tac weld the plates in the holes to the firewall and I should them be good to go. Should I do that or will there be a problem with that later?
Also I managed to do the A/C by the cut bracket method, and by going to the junk yard and taking the pulley from an 8v alternator and using the fat spacer that was on the alternator before, grinding it to a smooth circular finish so it can fit inside the pulley. It lined up perfectly with the other pulleys, and the tensioner bracket lined up with the alternator with no spacers required. I was also able to use the belt that was already there, even though I went to the autoparts store and picked up a 10mm x 954mm belt that it looks like I now do not need. 






























_Modified by JJ2K1 at 10:02 PM 5-18-2009_


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## mudanddust (Oct 24, 2007)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (JJ2K1)*

any of you guys know of a home brewed "abf" alternator bracket? im looking for the benefits with out the $$$$ plus i like to think i can fab things


----------



## JonnyPhenomenon (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (mudanddust)*

put it back in! I cant live without my AC. who says you cant have a clean engine bay with AC.


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (TheTimob)*

Bumping this, 'cause it's better than the other thread!


----------



## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (TheTimob)*

Hey, bumping this for a question...
ANyone have no AC factory? I'm wondering if I'm supposed to use studded bolts or regular bolts for the non-AC bracket. I have the one on the left now and I just bought the one on the right ($177 new at the dealer still!):








I'm thinking I'll need the 4 bolts with studs on the head so the water pump stays bolted up if I remove the bracket (otherwise a normal bolt would go through both and then into the block).
Any thoughts? Any ideas on what size bolts I'd need? ETKA gives some sizes but the pics aren't detailed so I can't tell really...
Oh and any idea why the lower right bolt hole is huge?? Am I supposed to use a big washer there?


_Modified by VDub2625 at 1:40 AM 11-5-2009_


----------



## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well, in case anyone cares, I have it mostly figured out. I'll need 4 new bolts, with the sizes 8x38&8x34 and 8x54&8x23 (those combination stud-bolts). VW part numbers 051260821A and 051260821 respectively. For that odd bigger hole, i'll need a "split cotter" and a "spring sleeve", whatever those are, part numbers 051260907 and 051260909. 
ETKA says that these parts were also used on 16vs with AC but i have yet to find a car with the spacer thingy it talks about for the lower hole. Also the stud are used by other 16vs too apparently...


----------



## CALAWAYMK2 (Apr 10, 2002)

_Modified by CALAWAYMK2 at 7:08 AM 11-6-2009_


----------



## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Sometimes AC is dead and people don't want to bother reviving it... mine had broken/cut hoses everywhere and the compressor was hanging on by a broken bracket and 2 of 3 bolts. You think that's better?


----------



## CodeMan (May 12, 2006)

*Re: The definitive deleting your A/C in multiple ways thread (TheTimob)*

Just quoting this so I can reference it without scrolling through the OP. 
So the stock alt pulley will work for the 'cut-the-bracket' method, right?
Does anyone have pics of one of those eyehook/cable tensioner things (or perhaps the correct name for it so I can search better) being used in place of the alternator tensioner arm?

_Quote, originally posted by *TheTimob* »_
*=====================================*
*Cut the bracket method (16v Only)*
Somebody can IM/mail/post some pics about this?
_Under Construction_

So far, I know what belt (see below), and here's the pics:
Here's some pictures of sciroccojim's setup that I took on Sunday...
































*=====================================*


----------



## jaysonhadwick (Jan 26, 2009)

ok so this is what I have now...
80 rocco, 1.6l

before:








After:

















here's the ongoing thread...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...s-a-non-ac-bracket-(no-cash-for-new-brackets)


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## jrub (Apr 28, 2008)

*ABA swap*



TheTimob said:


> Yeah -I've heard that Mk1 Scirocco, Mk1 Jetta and rabbits do not need that hammer clearancing.
> Shaving all that off accounts for the wider 16v timing belt. 8v people can use an ABA pulley unmodified.


TheTimob is right, I just swapped the ABA setup into my Mk1 Rabbit (1.8 16v) and everything fit right in with no hammering to the frame rail needed. The lower alternator bolt was a tight fit, but it made it in.:thumbup:


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## Neckromacr (Aug 1, 2002)

OK 16V's with the ABA setup, anybody else run into clearance problems with the tensioner assy rubbing against the water neck and hoses on the front of the head?

Mine is on, but its so snug that the tensioner won't rotate freely. I can "place the tensioner pulley where I want it and its been holding tension. But it concerns me about long term wear on the hose (connects water neck to pump and oil cooler) and still needing to check on tension so the belt doesn't fly off.

I'm thinking a fabbed water neck with an offset away from the tensioner might be the answer, but not sure where to look.


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## Neckromacr (Aug 1, 2002)

Neckromacr said:


> OK 16V's with the ABA setup, anybody else run into clearance problems with the tensioner assy rubbing against the water neck and hoses on the front of the head?
> 
> Mine is on, but its so snug that the tensioner won't rotate freely. I can "place the tensioner pulley where I want it and its been holding tension. But it concerns me about long term wear on the hose (connects water neck to pump and oil cooler) and still needing to check on tension so the belt doesn't fly off.
> 
> I'm thinking a fabbed water neck with an offset away from the tensioner might be the answer, but not sure where to look.


I found the answer.

For 16V's looking to do the ABA auto tensioner conversion there's one more important peice to your parts list.

ABF Coolant flange for the front of the head. Easily and pretty cheaply available from Techtonics Tuning.

Note how the stock Coolant flange points towards the front of the engine when mounted.










This _will_ rub against the backside of the tensioner assembly and make install near impossible and will not allow the tensioner to rotate freely.

The ABF water neck points towards the back of of the engine, but has the same matings to everything and will allow the tensioner to mover freely and not chaff any hoses.









http://www.techtonicstuning.com/mai...duct_info&cPath=2_13_437_449&products_id=1111

For what its worth BBM seems to have a few billet options too that do crazy bends to accommodate some supercharger setups, but they seem to go straight out and seem like they'd give adequate room too. But got about 3 times as much, but if you want to keep it all metal, there ya go. http://www.bahnbrenner.com/media/php/catalog.php?pid=1667


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## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

VDub2625 said:


> Hey, bumping this for a question...
> ANyone have no AC factory? I'm wondering if I'm supposed to use studded bolts or regular bolts for the non-AC bracket. I have the one on the left now and I just bought the one on the right ($177 new at the dealer still!):
> 
> 
> ...


I figured out the answer to this. The factory bracket off of a 2.0l 16v with AC and PS had all the parts I needed. The 4 bolt-studs, nuts, and a weird spring washer and spacer thing for the extra-big hole on the lower right.









It just bolts with 4 bolts on top of the water pump, and doesn't use the upper bracket. I was thinking about deleting it.


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## Neckromacr (Aug 1, 2002)

Just installed the Ebay aluminum under drive pulley after getting 6mm shaved off the backside and chopping off the P/S pulley grove.

If you're running the ABA Tensioner and the same under drive pulley, the belt 6PK990 fits perfectly.


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## Neckromacr (Aug 1, 2002)

After 6 months of learning the hard way I figgure I'd share one proper way to put the MK3 auto tensioner serp setup for the 16V.









ABA underdrive pulley sourced from eBay. Prior to install take it to a machine shop and have 6mm shaved off the backside, cut off the outer grove that was for the PS V-belt, and bring along originally pulley so they can put a timing mark on the new one (mine had none)

Also pictured is the belt I used, 6PK986. A 6PK990 will work, but I was concerned that the tensioner arm was just barely on there and if the belt streched any it could slip off. The 986 is marginally shorter but gives some room for strech over time and keeping tension.









PS pulley from a 12v VR6 (not sure if 24v is different) drives the water pump now and has the proper offset. The VR6 waterpump pulley will cause part of the belt to hang off if used.









Alternator and autotensioner from ABA along with mounting screws and nuts that held it to the ABA block. As you're looking at the block from the upper right corner of the tensioner will not be used. Also as mentioned, if this is going in a S2, you'll need to ball peen part of the frame rail, try hammering a little and test fitting. Make sure the tensioner can swing freely and you can get the alternator bolts in. They'll be a tight fit, but be methodical about it. Don't forget to get the pigtail from the back of the alternator on the ABA and splice it onto the exciter wire.









I replaced the AC radiator with a non-AC one. The forward facing part of the upper radiator makes getting a replacement hose so much easier. Plus the new radiator was about half the weight of OE one, might as well pitch that AC condenser while you're in there. That's more dead weight off the nose of the car.









ABF waterneck replaces the original one which will hit the ABA tensioner. It's available through Techtonics Tuning for a pretty reasonable price.









NAPA hose 8223 with lots of trimming. It's not OE fit, but works well. It just barely clears the fan shroud but should present no rubbing issues. I might try a Flexilite fan later, but the car runs much cooler now, normal temps, not "16v normal" although the weather has been pretty mild since completing this so I'll see how it fares in hotter temps later and if the extra cooling of the flexilite will even be needed.


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## woody16v (Sep 21, 2009)

VDub2625 said:


> Well, in case anyone cares, I have it mostly figured out. I'll need 4 new bolts, with the sizes 8x38&8x34 and 8x54&8x23 (those combination stud-bolts). VW part numbers 051260821A and 051260821 respectively. For that odd bigger hole, i'll need a "split cotter" and a "spring sleeve", whatever those are, part numbers 051260907 and 051260909.
> ETKA says that these parts were also used on 16vs with AC but i have yet to find a car with the spacer thingy it talks about for the lower hole. Also the stud are used by other 16vs too apparently...


i needed these sizes to figure out how to get this thing back together. thank you- i may just order new ones:thumbup:

...assuming they're actually available still...


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## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

They are but the whole set is like $100. I ended up getting all the correct studs, nuts, and even that spring washer piece from a 2.0l 16v Passat (same as 2.0l 16v Mk2).


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## BoschXTC (Feb 12, 2011)

Ok, here's what I'm running into.

I've got a 1.8 16v in a MK2, trying to run the ABA setup. 

If get 6mm machined off of the back of the pulley, it removes most, if not all, of the back of the pulley. Has anyone had issues with this? Do I need to run a different pulley?

Halp?


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## Neckromacr (Aug 1, 2002)

BoschXTC said:


> Ok, here's what I'm running into.
> 
> I've got a 1.8 16v in a MK2, trying to run the ABA setup.
> 
> ...


I used an ABA undredrive pulley from eBay. If you really want an OE solution, ABF pulley should be able to be found, or adding a centering ring to the machined ABA pulley.


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## macmandible (Mar 18, 2012)

I haven't seen the style of bracket I have on this thread yet. This one came from a 91 passat and was the ac/ps style.


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## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

Oh yes, I had to find one of those in a junkyard to get the bushing piece for that big hole on my non a.c./ps bracket. They made two different mounting styles, some style brackets mount with the big bolt across the top using an 8v alternator bracket and the two lower water pump books as studs, some use all 4 water pump mounting bolts. Some brackets are either one or the other, some (like a.c./ps) have both styles available. 

Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 2


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

That looks great! :thumbup:


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## hatchbackkid82 (Mar 20, 2012)

Does anyone know how to remove the AC lines at the firewall?


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## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

A wrench...

Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 2


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## redrocco1 (Apr 25, 2011)

I chose the ABA option for my '85 8v scirocco. The question I have is... What else from the AC system should I be removing ? The cabin portion will be at another time. Which components are getting pulled from under the hood? So far I've removed the compressor and condenser.. What am I to do with the canister mounted on the passenger frame rail and the associated sensors on that hard line? One of those hard line sensors runs to a white solenoid looking component near the cold start valve. The name of that part escapes me, and I have not been able to find another write up detailing all components to be removed. Where do those hoses running into that white component get re-routed to? If you guys and gals would kindly help,

Thanks!

Anthony


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## pleger (Oct 18, 2013)

*Kinda Confused Still*

So when deleting the A/C on a Mk2 8v all I will need is: remove the A/C compressor and lines, use the non-A/C car belt, space out the pulley on my alternator, and get a new upper bracket? I read through the whole thread and most of it is about 16v. Thanks for the help


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

pleger said:


> So when deleting the A/C on a Mk2 8v all I will need is: remove the A/C compressor and lines, use the non-A/C car belt, space out the pulley on my alternator, and get a new upper bracket? I read through the whole thread and most of it is about 16v. Thanks for the help


Yeah, the late (1984.5 and up) 8v is really really easy - that's why there's not much info about it. It has the a/c delete bracket already on the block! if you have an 82-84 8v, you have to find a bracket from a newer 8v in the salvage yard.


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## pleger (Oct 18, 2013)

Thanks! Looks like I drew the lucky straw


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## pleger (Oct 18, 2013)

If anybody has pictures of an 85 or later 8v with no A/C I'd be really grateful if you would post them.


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