# Next car



## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

What do you imagine your next car to be?
For me the Jetta Sportwagon is quite appealing but the mileage of the 2.0T isn't great. It might be a non-VW.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Next car (liquid stereo)*

Polo Cross TDi(Dreaming in the US)
Any sign of a Blu-Tech DSG Jetta Wagon, and what milage it would get... 
At the moment it's looking like either a Fit/Jazz or Prius.. My other half is doing a 70 mile round trip to work and that's bad news with the Acura MDX she currently uses. 
Of course we still are going to need the MDX for winter trips to Tahoe, and Dog, Kid & Furniture Hauling (Did you know you can get an 80" x 30" Ethan Allen bookcase in the back of an MDX and still shut the trunk - I didn't till last weekend!), so looks like we'll have 4 cars between 2 of us soon..... - Only in the US.
-Mark


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## Funmobile (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: Next car (mark_d_drake)*

Since I won't be on the market for about five years, by the time I buy it will likely be an Apple iCar.








For those looking at the Prius, the WSJ did a story yesterday describing the Toyota transition from NiMh batteries to Lithium Ion. They're holding off for about a year while they work out some of the safety issues.


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: Next car (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mark_d_drake* »_Any sign of a Blu-Tech DSG Jetta Wagon, and what milage it would get...

Yes, someone who works at a VW dealer posted a photo of one with manufacturer plates on a thread on The Car Lounge. Said the tech driving it claimed to be getting 55mpg.
VW won't use the BlueTec name, though, because people associate it with Mercedes-Benz. They'll continue to call them TDI.
Jetta and Jetta SportWagen TDIs should be on sale early next year, and a TDI Tiguan is expected in the latter half. The 2.0 TDI looks like it'll be very good.


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: Next car (flubber)*

I found the Car Lounge post with the Jetta TDI SportWagen. It is a DSG.
The Tiguan is said to be available with a traditional automatic transmission for the first year, and DSG after that.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Next car (flubber)*

Hey Joe, thanks for that.. Brendan has a PM, except this time I'm holding out for the employee pricing that my company gets...


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## ravennarocket (May 4, 2007)

*Re: Next car (mark_d_drake)*

Hi There,
I'm planning to keep my EOS for some time to come, but will probably dump my 2005 Passat 4Motion station wagon (very nice car but consumes too much fuel) I think I would like to take a good look at the Tiguan when it finally comes out, especially if it is available in a diesel version. We need one 4 wheel drive car out here in the boonies for winter driving!


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## darien (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: Next car (liquid stereo)*

I don't know what my next car is, BUT for sure it will not be a VW. Sorry no offense. Hehe.


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: Next car (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mark_d_drake* »_Hey Joe, thanks for that.. Brendan has a PM, except this time I'm holding out for the employee pricing that my company gets... 

Good idea to get in line early; there seems to be a lot of pent-up demand for these.
Myself, I'm hoping the Eos will see me through to the day when some manufacturer decides it would be OK to sell a diesel, hybrid or electric convertible in the US...


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: Next car (flubber)*

5 years... hmm I'll probably get another subaru wagon to start trucking around the kids I'll most likely have. Before my old subaru got destroyed I was looking to get an Volvo C70 in 3 to 5 but I'm glad I got the Eos instead!


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## BigFoot-74205 (Jan 26, 2006)

Well, I plan to keep my Eos for a while, at least five years. After that, I have a feeling I'm gonna be getting a more practical car. Maybe an Audi A3.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Next car (darien)*

No offense taken (at least by me). My next vehicle has to be much more fuel efficient and if VW doesn't offer an option, then I won't even consider a VW product.
A Jetta Sportwagon DSG TDI would be great. The 25-27mpg in the Eos is just not cutting it. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *darien* »_I don't know what my next car is, BUT for sure it will not be a VW. Sorry no offense. Hehe.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*A3 = practical?*

You're taking this move to practicality slowly aren't you









_Quote, originally posted by *BigFoot-74205* »_Well, I plan to keep my Eos for a while, at least five years. After that, I have a feeling I'm gonna be getting a more practical car. Maybe an Audi A3.


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## BigFoot-74205 (Jan 26, 2006)

^ Well yeah, I can't just get a minivan right away.







Besides, the five-door A3 is reasonably practical.


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## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (BigFoot-74205)*

My next will either be an A3 Cabriolet or a BMW 1 series convertible depending if either one happens in the US.


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: (flheat)*

I love the Eos so much my next car has not even entered my mind. I suspect, assuming no reliability issues down the road, my next car with be hydrogen powered.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (flheat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flheat* »_My next will either be an A3 Cabriolet or a BMW 1 series convertible depending if either one happens in the US.

Any particular reason why you are defecting to a soft top convertible?



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 2:37 PM 8-10-2007_


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## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_
Any perticular reason why you are defecting to a soft top convertible?

I have come to find the top to be more of a novalty and since mine is down most of the time, I would rather not compromise the space, the extra mechanical components and the added weight.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Soft-top and good weather*

That's something I considered only implicitly. Meaning here in Minnesota, I never considered anything but a hard-top convertible. But where you are, Florida, I would probably go with a soft-top. Primarily for the reasons you mentioned









_Quote, originally posted by *flheat* »_
I have come to find the top to be more of a novalty and since mine is down most of the time, I would rather not compromise the space, the extra mechanical components and the added weight.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Next car (mark_d_drake)*

How about this beast? I wouldn't mind it with a TDI or 1.4 TwinCharger.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/s...age=1


_Quote, originally posted by *mark_d_drake* »_Polo Cross TDi(Dreaming in the US)
Any sign of a Blu-Tech DSG Jetta Wagon, and what milage it would get... 
-Mark


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: Next car (liquid stereo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquid stereo* »_How about this beast? I wouldn't mind it with a TDI or 1.4 TwinCharger.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/s...age=1

A5 Sportback? I'm sure there will be a diesel, but the questions, as usual, are: "Will they send a hatchback to the US?" and "Will they send the diesel to the US?" The diesel question should be settled by the market response to clean diesels over the next few years. Right now, though, conventional wisdom is that US buyers don't want premium hatchbacks.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Next car (flubber)*

I wonder if this is not the right time for such vehicles as gas/fuel prices are only going to increase. Strangely, VW is well-positioned in terms of diesel technology but they appear to be unwilling (no doubt made so by poor US sales) to bring/certify the various engines to the NA market.
(VW's decision to go with the Phaeton was a complete mystery to me. I understand it from a capitalization/amortization point of view. But in terms of the sales market, a big no no. What they should have done, in my opinion, was create a german/euro equivalent of the Chevy Caprice. A truly big car. The Passat is nice but its at best a medium size car.)

_Quote, originally posted by *flubber* »_
A5 Sportback? I'm sure there will be a diesel, but the questions, as usual, are: "Will they send a hatchback to the US?" and "Will they send the diesel to the US?" The diesel question should be settled by the market response to clean diesels over the next few years. Right now, though, conventional wisdom is that US buyers don't want premium hatchbacks.


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## Sealy (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Next car (liquid stereo)*

I'm not sure what I'm allowed to say here - I posted earlier in the week in reply to someone with Eos boredom. That whole post was vaporized with no apparent explanation.
So, carefully, I'll say I'm most likely returning to a Mazda - 3 or 6 Hatch. I like the utility and driveabilty. As far as the Audi, the US just has a phobia when it comes to hatches and wagons. Mazda 6 comes in sedan, hatch, and wagon. It's gotten outstanding reviews - the sedan sells, but the hatch and wagon don't. Maybe if we had drive-in movies again? Ahh, thoes were the days.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Next car (Sealy)*

It's here
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3380876
I think someone, not sure who at this point regarded the original thread as an attempt to post a below the radar "For Sale" notice in the discussion forum, rather than the classified forum, which is against Vortex Policy. The original thread was moved to the EOS CARS forum in the EOS Classified section. Your reply was collateral damage and went with it..
Hope that clears up the mystery


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: Next car (Sealy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sealy* »_So, carefully, I'll say I'm most likely returning to a Mazda - 3 or 6 Hatch. I like the utility and driveabilty.

I don't have a problem with this. As much as I love them, I advise people to think carefully before buying a convertible. There are a lot of good reasons not to get one, especially a four-seat one, compared to a fixed roof car: They cost more to buy. They require more maintenance. They are inherently compromised in performance and handling. They all flex, it's just a matter of how much. They have limited storage space. They creak, they squeak, they leak.
You'll always be able to get a better fixed roof car for the same money. You'll always be able to get an equivalent fixed roof car for less money. To buy one, you have to conclude that driving with the top down is so much fun the drawbacks don't matter.
In practical terms, it's pretty silly to buy any convertible. But it's my kind of silly.


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## Sealy (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Next car (flubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flubber* »_
They creak, they squeak, they leak.


As I approach my 57th year, that pretty much describes me, too.









And thanks for the clarification on my earlier post.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Next car (flubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flubber* »_
In practical terms, it's pretty silly to buy any convertible. But it's my kind of silly.
















Come on, I describe both the cabby and the EOS as 'Vaguely Practical", where as I could sometimes be described as practically vague !










_Modified by mark_d_drake at 4:36 PM 8-10-2007_


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Next car (mark_d_drake)*

Mark: What's going on with your spelling today?

_Quote, originally posted by *mark_d_drake* »_
Come on, I describe both the cabby and the EOS as 'Vaguely *Practicle *", where as I could sometimes be *descrbied* as *paractically* vague !


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## Sealy (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Next car (liquid stereo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquid stereo* »_Mark: What's going on with your spelling today?



Typing with one hand while he looks at his Eos?


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: Next car (liquid stereo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquid stereo* »_Strangely, VW is well-positioned in terms of diesel technology but they appear to be unwilling (no doubt made so by poor US sales) to bring/certify the various engines to the NA market.

VW and others are going to be testing the waters over the next couple of years with diesel and other options, and if the market responds I'm sure we'll get a lot more choices. Diesel SUVs seem like a no-brainer to me, and VW will be offering a diesel version of the Tiguan and a new efficient diesel V6 in the Touareg. As I mentioned, they're also going to offer diesel Jettas, but don't seem to have decided about the Rabbit and the Passat. Honda is also planning to offer a diesel Accord in 2009.
Sporty/performance cars will likely be the last ones to get more efficient options. Unfortunately for me, convertibles are included in this class--they seem to have overlooked the Sebring--so I don't know when we might see a diesel Eos here, even though it's already a very popular option in Europe. Still, BMW says they'll offer a diesel 3series here next year, so maybe there will be progress in this segment, too.

_Quote, originally posted by *liquid stereo* »_What they should have done, in my opinion, was create a german/euro equivalent of the Chevy Caprice. A truly big car. The Passat is nice but its at best a medium size car

You may see this. VW has announced plans to bring a long-wheelbase version of the Passat they sell in China to the US. The car is also made in China, so they may be able to offer it at a more competitive price, too.


_Modified by flubber at 9:01 PM 8-10-2007_


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: Next car (flubber)*

Actually the Touareg does have a diesel twin turbo V-10 diesel in the US (now it is a Touareg 2). The Japanbese auto makers have pretty much figured out how to sell cars in the US with very few models ever discontinued for lack of sales. Why do the European automakers have such a hard time? Is it attitude? I don't know. They seem to have trouble making and meeting pricepoint with their world competitors here.


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## vwhoosier (Jun 24, 2007)

*Re: Next car (liquid stereo)*

What about the Volvo C30? 
http://www.volvocars.us/campai...t.htm
I'm probably too old for this, but it looks interesting. I built one on their site. Pretty much threw in all the options for under $35,000 msrp.
The LA Times car guy Dan Niel ( as mentioned in another thread, if you haven't read his reviews you should) did a review on this sport hatchback. He mentions Volvo only expects to sell 8,000 annually in US. So, like our EOS, this could be a rare breed on US roads. 
Alan


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Next car (vwhoosier)*

Small, expensive, and poor gas mileage.

_Quote, originally posted by *vwhoosier* »_What about the Volvo C30? 
http://www.volvocars.us/campai...t.htm
I'm probably too old for this, but it looks interesting. I built one on their site. Pretty much threw in all the options for under $35,000 msrp.
The LA Times car guy Dan Niel ( as mentioned in another thread, if you haven't read his reviews you should) did a review on this sport hatchback. He mentions Volvo only expects to sell 8,000 annually in US. So, like our EOS, this could be a rare breed on US roads. 
Alan


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## frostmage (Aug 5, 2007)

*Re: (solarflare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *solarflare* »_I love the Eos so much my next car has not even entered my mind. I suspect, assuming no reliability issues down the road, my next car with be hydrogen powered.

me too


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## Sealy (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Next car (vwhoosier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwhoosier* »_What about the Volvo C30? 


I'm a fan of anything built on the European Ford Focus platform. I've seen the C30 at a car show and it's a very nice little package. However, Volvo got really strange on the one. They want folks to customize it to their taste (ala Scion), so everthing is a stand alone option. And to order off the option list, you have to pay a $300 fee. I had one of them up real close to $40K - which is insane.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Next car (vwhoosier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwhoosier* »_What about the Volvo C30? 


Volvos prices are way up in space for what you are getting. The "Eos vs. C70" discussions illuminate that reality rather well. If you were in the mood for a hatchback, why not get an R32 and call it a day....that's going to retain value much better than a C30.


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: Next car (Sealy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sealy* »_I've seen the C30 at a car show and it's a very nice little package. However, Volvo got really strange on the one. They want folks to customize it to their taste (ala Scion), so everthing is a stand alone option. And to order off the option list, you have to pay a $300 fee. I had one of them up real close to $40K - which is insane.

It's an interesting option to offer, though, and something I'd like to see VW consider. For the $300, you can get your car with any of the options offered in Europe, as long as they're certified for the US (likely affects engines and seats, for instance). I think there are a lot of people here who would have been happy to pay $300 extra to get their Eos with exactly the options they wanted (bi-xenon lights on the 2.0T? no leather?).


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## vwhoosier (Jun 24, 2007)

*Re: Next car (flubber)*

Thats what I was most impressed with. It's like a kid in a candy store.
My build was version 2(18 in wheels, dynaudio std), by-xenons, no leather, 6MT, Nav, 6cd changer and other convenience options, for about 35k.
I configured an MKV similarly for 28k, but had to accept package options at every turn







Had to take leather to get nav, dynadio did not seem to be available.
Is a Volvo worth another 7K? Maybe not, but they get about 10k more for a base C70 over the Eos. 
Alan


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Next car (Sealy)*

Has anyone read a review of the C30? Its virtually a POS.
http://www.caranddriver.com/pr....html

_Quote, originally posted by *Sealy* »_
I'm a fan of anything built on the European Ford Focus platform. I've seen the C30 at a car show and it's a very nice little package. However, Volvo got really strange on the one. They want folks to customize it to their taste (ala Scion), so everthing is a stand alone option. And to order off the option list, you have to pay a $300 fee. I had one of them up real close to $40K - which is insane.


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Next car (liquid stereo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquid stereo* »_Has anyone read a review of the C30? Its virtually a POS.
http://www.caranddriver.com/pr....html


Some may consider it a poor review, but my take away was that this car is not for everyone, particular the performance seeker. I also think the author is spot on with their conclusion...
"But will it succeed? Yes. After all, America is far from the most important market for the C30—that honor goes to Europe, where Volvo has already sold about 50,000 C30s in the first half of this year. Here, Volvo has no delusions of grandeur, as evidenced by its modest 6000-to-8000-unit U.S. sales target—about the volume the A3 is pulling in. And we think Volvo can easily unload 8000 C30s on looks alone."
...so it will come down to how many people consider performance to be more important than style and status. I think there is a significant portion of the market who would choose style and status. Same holds tru for the C70 to Eos comparison. The consensus seems to be that the C70 is a bit slower and not a crisp in the corners, but is a bit more stylish and carries more of a luxury class breeding.
Pitting it against the forthcoming 1 Series, which I am sure it will be, I think it also makes more of a statement. Although I really like the looks of the BMW 1 Series in it's sedan form, for me the same appeal just doesn't convey to the hatchback. Obviously this is completely subjective, and as much as I like the looks of the GTI, I happen to think this is the sharpest looking hatchback to hit the streets in a long time.
I don't mean to be sexist, but there is also something about this car that makes me think it will appeal more to women than the Mazda 3 and the GTI. Maybe it's that the power toy connotation is more appealing to men.
I think the biggest hurdle will be buyers willing to pay the premium for what is meant to be a budget friendly car. Will they wind up jumping to the next price point.
In any case, none of these would be on my top 5 list for my next car. If things go well, I'll be looking at the Merc SL or the BMW 6 Series Convertible, but more realistically the Audi 5 Series.


_Modified by jgermuga at 12:50 PM 8-13-2007_


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## EosEnthusiastNB (Aug 9, 2006)

*Re: Next car (jgermuga)*

I don't personally much believe in *buying* hybrid vehicles at this time. That being said, I think plug in hybrid vehicle technology is VERY interesting to me. But, I think the Prius is butt ugly. I won't really consider any PHEV until they can come up with better long lasting and fast charging batteries, that are not terribly expensive and not a disposal issue. I would not consider a fully electric vehicle because personally I only want a car that I could get in and drive 2000 miles if I so desire, with minimal stops. I would like a PHEV with the same drivability as the Eos, with similar features, so I will be waiting a long long time. PHEV tech will probably come a long way in the next 5-10 years, and that is how long I plan to keep my Eos as long as nothing serious occurs. They talk about 200 mpg in the first 50 miles at 55mph with the plug in hybrid prius. I would be happy with 100 mpg if it could be in something more attractive than that butt ugly car. 


_Modified by EosEnthusiastNB at 2:18 PM 8-20-2007_


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Next car (EosEnthusiastNB)*

What do you mean you don't believe in hybrid vehicles? Is this like not believing in evolution or gravity?
The idea of the hybrid is that you recover energy normally lost in deceleration. Are you saying you believe this energy should be discarded.
I'm a little confused. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *EosEnthusiastNB* »_I don't personally much believe in hybrid vehicles. That being said, I think plug in hybrid vehicle technology is VERY interesting to me. But, I think the Prius is butt ugly. I won't really consider any PHEV until they can come up with better long lasting and fast charging batteries, that are not terribly expensive and not a disposal issue. I would not consider a fully electric vehicle because personally I only want a car that I could get in and drive 2000 miles if I so desire, with minimal stops. I would like a PHEV with the same drivability as the Eos, with similar features, so I will be waiting a long long time. PHEV tech will probably come a long way in the next 5-10 years, and that is how long I plan to keep my Eos as long as nothing serious occurs. They talk about 200 mpg in the first 50 miles at 55mph with the plug in hybrid prius. I would be happy with 100 mpg if it could be in something more attractive than that butt ugly car.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Next car (liquid stereo)*

Hey since we're going somewhat off topic, and the next turn would obvously be the diesel Vs Hybrid debate why are their no Hybrid Deisels ?


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: Next car (mark_d_drake)*

Ford has been playing with that. They had a concept car with it at last year's auto shows.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Next car (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mark_d_drake* »_Hey since we're going somewhat off topic, and the next turn would obvously be the diesel Vs Hybrid debate why are their no Hybrid Deisels ?

I would guess because that technology is more suited to this platform...








Or this platform.








How's that for off topic?



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 11:40 PM 8-13-2007_


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Next car (EosEnthusiastNB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EosEnthusiastNB* »_ I think the Prius is butt ugly. I won't really consider any PHEV until they can come up with better long lasting and fast charging batteries, that are not terribly expensive and not a disposal issue. 

While I agree the Prius is butt ugly I have heard the battery disposal issue before but I still don't understand it? It sounds like a desperate attempt by the oil companies to discredit the technology. Am I missing something? The battery packs last longer then lead-acid batteries and probably are less lethal and every car has a lead acid battery. Are they not recyclable? I think Toyota warrants them for 6 years or 100,000 miles and the dealer will probably be the one replacing them when the time comes. There are plenty of other parts of a car that can fail and be tossed in the trash in that time period as well and if you think about the trillions of regular household batteries that are tossed in the trash every day the hybrid battery disposal issue becomes insignificant. 



_Modified by solarflare at 4:21 AM 8-15-2007_


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## darien (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: Next car (solarflare)*

Seriously, you have to pay a premium for the purchasing any Hybrid vehicles now. Unless you planned to keep/drive the car for more than 5 years, then you probably be saving money by then. Else, you just wasted the money on the premium to acquire one.


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Next car (darien)*

You have to pay a premium for a hardtop convertible or any convertible for that matter. The price of a car is relative. The Prius has a status as well. People that buy a hybrid do so not only to save money on gas but to be kinder to the environment, stick it to the oil companies and be less dependent on foreign oil. If it all came down to dollar per mile traveled we all would be driving a Yaris. You could buy 3 for the price of an Eos!


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

There was recently a study (that I cannot find now) that rated the life cycle environmental impact of cars. While I think that it was flawed in some respects, for example R&D was considered a negative due to the energy consumed etc. Small high production cars, vehicles with many part bin components did well, and vehicles with long product cycles and expectations of high mileage.
The Prius did poorly, for such


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Next car (mark_d_drake)*

Good question. Pure speculation but maybe it has something to do with starting and stopping? Don't deisels take longer to come up to temp to get max efficiency? 
There is also an interesting concept motor out there that has additional cycles where water is pumped through to create steam, thus taking advantage of the otherwise lost energy to heat.
In general, we will ALL need to get into the game at some point. Unfortunatly, the rate of population growth will dictate this, since the progress we are making on more efficient vehicles is getting swamped by the number of vehicles getting added to the roadways every year. 
I think we really need to get to a mindset where shared transportation is the norm rather then the exception and I would be all for getting smaller and smaller vehicles were it not for having to share the roadway with SUV's. I used to ride my motorcycle when I lived in a more rural area, but riding it here in the DC area is flat out frightening. It is much different in Europe, where scooters and MCs are very popular, people learn to share the road with them. This is not at all the case in most US cities.
I have thought of selling my bike though and getting a scooter for those short jaunts to the local stores, but often having to cart along our 1 year old daughter really limits the amount of use I would get out of it.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Next car (darien)*

What about the premium paid for (1) 18in wheels, (2) a sunroof, (3) leather seats, (4) better handling, etc.? I.e., a premium is paid for many things. Should we balk at paying more for a vehicle that gets better mileage and emits less pollutants?
How long does one need to drive to reclaim the cost of better handling?

_Quote, originally posted by *darien* »_Seriously, you have to pay a premium for the purchasing any Hybrid vehicles now. Unless you planned to keep/drive the car for more than 5 years, then you probably be saving money by then. Else, you just wasted the money on the premium to acquire one.


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## EosMosis (Jul 4, 2007)

Probably one of the cross over cehicles... although i do love the new volvo C30!!


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## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: Next car (liquid stereo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquid stereo* »_What about the premium paid for (1) 18in wheels, (2) a sunroof, (3) leather seats, (4) better handling, etc.? I.e., a premium is paid for many things. Should we balk at paying more for a vehicle that gets better mileage and emits less pollutants?
How long does one need to drive to reclaim the cost of better handling?


I like your question, because It shows that currently we have a preference in the market to pay more for certain things... such as "better handling", "sun-roof" . etc... other options, however, have to be included no matter if we want them or not, for example (Don't laugh) Seat Belts, Air Bags, Catalityc converter, etc
I think the issue is whether technology to save fuel, such as Hybrids, will remain in the "buy if you like" or it will eventually be pushed to all drivers.


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## darien (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: Next car (liquid stereo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquid stereo* »_What about the premium paid for (1) 18in wheels, (2) a sunroof, (3) leather seats, (4) better handling, etc.? I.e., a premium is paid for many things. Should we balk at paying more for a vehicle that gets better mileage and emits less pollutants?
How long does one need to drive to reclaim the cost of better handling?


I have nothing against Hybrid cars, as a matter of fact, I've considered to purchase one before. But right now, anyone who wants to get one, simply have to pay an extra premium fee to the dealership as they don't really discount much on that type of vehicles. The question why should I pay extra money into their pocket? In fact, I've heard they have some kind of waiting list on some hybrid vehicles. 
Again, if money is not an issue, anyone can have any car they want to drive. Perhaps more than one too.










_Modified by darien at 8:28 AM 8-16-2007_


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## Funmobile (Feb 19, 2007)

You might think of it in accounting terms: Expenses vs. Assets. 
Something is an expense is you spend money on it, use it up, and enjoy it. Something is an Asset if it is purchased with the expectation that it will produce value in the future. 
Those that disagree with Hybrids right now view them as a potential asset. The straight financial return (rough example: spend $2k extra, save $200 a year) doesn't work out for them, because the Net Present Value is negative. If you buy a hybrid *just* to save money, I don't think it works yet. The technology is still developing, and your cheapest option is likely a Yaris or something like that. 
On the other hand, expenses aren't expected to create value. Having big wheels or a sunroof don't add extra dollars to your bank aco****, but they make you happy. If you can afford to buy these things and you get joy from them, go for it. 
Hybrids are, right now, more on the expense side, but with some asset benefits. Unlike $2k wheels, the hybrid might save you some gas money, but it still doesn't pay for itself. Hybrids also offer lots of other benefits, like trendiness, environmental improvements, access to carpool lanes, and so forth. 
To each their own... (and to me, my Eos!)


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Next car (ialonso)*

In other parts of the world fuel economy is an option. The US (maybe North America) is unique in that these people believe that fuel is infinite.

_Quote, originally posted by *ialonso* »_
I like your question, because It shows that currently we have a preference in the market to pay more for certain things... such as "better handling", "sun-roof" . etc... other options, however, have to be included no matter if we want them or not, for example (Don't laugh) Seat Belts, Air Bags, Catalityc converter, etc
I think the issue is whether technology to save fuel, such as Hybrids, will remain in the "buy if you like" or it will eventually be pushed to all drivers.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: (Funmobile)*

Here's to those who get joy (or satisfaction) from using less natural resources and producing less CO2








You say buying a hybrid to save money doesn't work yet. With all due respect, this is complete b.s.
Car moving = energy X. Car not moving = X-A. Hybrid means that B < A is stored.
Let's say that it "doesn't work" because the dealer charges you more for it.
I would like to see a TDI/Bluetec hybrid.


_Quote, originally posted by *Funmobile* »_You might think of it in accounting terms: Expenses vs. Assets. 
Something is an expense is you spend money on it, use it up, and enjoy it. Something is an Asset if it is purchased with the expectation that it will produce value in the future. 
Those that disagree with Hybrids right now view them as a potential asset. The straight financial return (rough example: spend $2k extra, save $200 a year) doesn't work out for them, because the Net Present Value is negative. If you buy a hybrid *just* to save money, I don't think it works yet. The technology is still developing, and your cheapest option is likely a Yaris or something like that. 
On the other hand, expenses aren't expected to create value. Having big wheels or a sunroof don't add extra dollars to your bank aco****, but they make you happy. If you can afford to buy these things and you get joy from them, go for it. 
Hybrids are, right now, more on the expense side, but with some asset benefits. Unlike $2k wheels, the hybrid might save you some gas money, but it still doesn't pay for itself. Hybrids also offer lots of other benefits, like trendiness, environmental improvements, access to carpool lanes, and so forth. 
To each their own... (and to me, my Eos!)


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (liquid stereo)*

I think more choice would be helpful too. Right now, I don't think there is a single hybrid that seats more than 5. Considering we use at least 6 seats for probably 25% of our driving as we carpool with some other parents, any savings in efficiency would be lost to taking two vehicles.
I definitely _consider_ efficiency when purchasing a vehicle, which is why we own two of the most efficient, albeit, gasoline burning vehicles in their respective class, but unless we wanted to make real sacrafices in our commutes, it would not be about just paying more for efficiency, but about changing our lifestyle. This is a bit more intrusive and sometimes not an option for people. Considering our society and our *entire infrastucture* grew up in the age of the auto, we do not have as many pedestrian communites as other parts of the world.
Getting down to $$ and sense, looking at the 5 year TCO according to MSN Autos, including fuel the 2007 Toyota Highlander Hybrid costs 3000 more over 5 years than the 4cyl. Things look slightly better with the Honda Civic Hybrid but the Hybrid still costs 800 more.
Highlander Compare
http://autos.msn.com/research/...12305
Civic Compare
http://autos.msn.com/research/...12318
So apples to apples, any saving would likely be based on how much driving you do and the market rate of gas. But it wouldn't take much to put the Hybrid's over the top... given only a 50 cent increase in gas prices, 12k miles driven over 5 years, and a difference in mileage of 10 mpg, the 3000 would be erased. 
On an optimistic note, it looks like the 2008 Toyota Highlander will seat more than 5, but the price is still TBD. Given that we will likely be in the market for our main daily driver before our second daily driver, we will certainly be considering this as out next car.
But one must also consider how many of the vehicles can actually be produced. If everyone wanted to buy one, the demand would far outweigh the supply and the prices would go up.








I look forward to the day when at leat 50% of the models have some type of fuel saving option.



_Modified by jgermuga at 3:16 PM 8-16-2007_


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## Funmobile (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: (liquid stereo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquid stereo* »_ Let's say that it "doesn't work" because the dealer charges you more for it. 
 "
I agree... in order to breakeven on a straight financial basis, the hybrid technology would have to be less expensive to buy, it would have to save more fuel, or some combination of the two. 
@Jgermuga: 
Excess demand could lead to higher prices in the short term, but I think Toyota has been ramping up their supply in the longer term.


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: (Funmobile)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Funmobile* »_ "
@Jgermuga: 
Excess demand could lead to higher prices in the short term, but I think Toyota has been ramping up their supply in the longer term. 

Yep, I recently saw a commercial that stated Toyota has increased production on the Prius and that they are now in stock so I can only assume the waiting list for them is gone. Perhaps one can get a deal now. I know they were selling over MSRP when there as a waiting list after hurricane Katrina reeked havoc on gas prices. Interesting how gas prices never dropped back to pre hurricane prices!


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Hybrid line*

Toyota should just come out with a line of hybrids. And by this I mean not just put hybrid engines into various models but rather design vehicles for hybrid powertrains from the beginning.
If VWoA had a clue they would request or lobby for more models built in Mexico & Brazil. This would increase the profit margin which would then give them, VWoA, a more power/influence in VAG. Right now VWoA sales are almost insignificant to VAG sales.

_Quote, originally posted by *solarflare* »_
Yep, I recently saw a commercial that stated Toyota has increased production on the Prius and that they are now in stock so I can only assume the waiting list for them is gone. Perhaps one can get a deal now. I know they were selling over MSRP when there as a waiting list after hurricane Katrina reeked havoc on gas prices. Interesting how gas prices never dropped back to pre hurricane prices!


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## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: Hybrid line (liquid stereo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquid stereo* »_
If VWoA had a clue they would request or lobby for more models built in Mexico & Brazil. This would increase the profit margin which would then give them, VWoA, a more power/influence in VAG. Right now VWoA sales are almost insignificant to VAG sales.


That makes sense, however, as evidenced by J.D. Powers survey, it seems that there are serious quality isssues with cars coming out of Mexico. Has VW sacrificed quality for a cheap labor pool?
BMW, Toyota and others have plants in the U.S. which I believe are profitable and which turn out a decent product. Sourcing more parts from the U.S. and from S. America, rather than from Europe, might also bring VW's costs down.
Just my 2 cents.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Hybrid line (SoCalMan)*

I think the Mexico origin has little to do with the problems. The number of cars coming here from Mexico is relatively small.
(A brief aside. The J.D. Power (initial quality) report is in terms of cars per 100. The difference between the best and the worst is incredibly small.)


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## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: Hybrid line (liquid stereo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquid stereo* »_I think the Mexico origin has little to do with the problems. The number of cars coming here from Mexico is relatively small.
(A brief aside. The J.D. Power (initial quality) report is in terms of cars per 100. The difference between the best and the worst is incredibly small.)


Aren't all U.S. Jettas, Passats and Beetles assembled in Mexico? 
IMO, when it comes to quality, perception is everything. And quality, or lack thereof, has been widely commented upon in this forum, the media, even by VW's new chaiman. Also IMO, how many people bother to understand the numbers behind the J.D Powers study? What most people *do* hear is the 30 second sound bite on TV or radio that says VW is near the bottom of the rankings.
Is Mexico the issue? Idon't know. I just put it out there for consideraton. Tell you what...VWoA knows ,one way or the other.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Hybrid line (SoCalMan)*

I think the New Beetle and Jetta come out of Mexico for the NA market.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *SoCalMan* »_
Aren't all U.S. Jettas, Passats and Beetles assembled in Mexico? 
IMO, when it comes to quality, perception is everything. And quality, or lack thereof, has been widely commented upon in this forum, the media, even by VW's new chaiman. Also IMO, how many people bother to understand the numbers behind the J.D Powers study? What most people *do* hear is the 30 second sound bite on TV or radio that says VW is near the bottom of the rankings.
Is Mexico the issue? Idon't know. I just put it out there for consideraton. Tell you what...VWoA knows ,one way or the other.


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## griffsmom (May 25, 2007)

*Re: Hybrid line (liquid stereo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquid stereo* »_I think the New Beetle and Jetta come out of Mexico for the NA market.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


My new beetle was born in Mexico 7 1/2 years ago and it has been virtually problem-free during that time, even given the way I drive ("Like she stole it" is how my husdband describes my driving) It's gone over 100,000 miles, and I've just sent it off to Berkeley with my step-son who I think should be able to get at least another 50,000 out of it.


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## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: Hybrid line (griffsmom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *griffsmom* »_
My new beetle was born in Mexico 7 1/2 years ago and it has been virtually problem-free during that time, even given the way I drive ("Like she stole it" is how my husdband describes my driving) It's gone over 100,000 miles, and I've just sent it off to Berkeley with my step-son who I think should be able to get at least another 50,000 out of it.









If every VW owner can duplicate your experience, myself included, the world would be a wonderful place.


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: Next car (liquid stereo)*

For those interested in the Jetta SportWagen, Vortex Media Group's Motive Magazine site has posted their "First Steer". You can even get it with a massive sunroof if you're afraid you'll miss the Eos.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Next car (flubber)*

Thanks for the pointer. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://www.motivemagazine.com/...shtml
I was speaking with my GF about a glass roof two days ago. I suggested that all vehicles will soon come with a glass roof. (I hate being in the Eos with the shade closed.) She brought up the fact that she hates the sun on her head.

_Quote, originally posted by *flubber* »_For those interested in the Jetta SportWagen, Vortex Media Group's Motive Magazine site has posted their "First Steer". You can even get it with a massive sunroof if you're afraid you'll miss the Eos.



_Modified by liquid stereo at 8:02 AM 8-20-2007_


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Next car (flubber)*

If I could just find the price and milage for a base 2.0Tdi with DSG I'd be ready to place an order.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Next car (mark_d_drake)*

More wagon goodness...
http://vw.co.uk/new_cars/golf_estate/gallery


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## eosluvr2b (Apr 22, 2007)

*Re: Next car (liquid stereo)*

Personally, I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of the '08 Jetta TDI and possibly even the SportWagen. They are beginning production Jan of '08, so I will be ordering mine around the beginning of the year. I am sooo looking forward to 40-50 mpg.


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## Funmobile (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: Next car (Funmobile)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Funmobile* »_Since I won't be on the market for about five years, by the time I buy it will likely be an Apple iCar.









I wrote "iCar" as a joke a few weeks ago. 
It looks like VW was listening... Gizmodo reports that VW and Apple may team up like Ford and Microsoft:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/ibu...4.php
I'm not holding my breath for iPhone integration. (although a VW stock solution to that useless telephone button on the steering wheel would be nice...)


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Next car (Funmobile)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Funmobile* »_
may team up like Ford and Microsoft:


I can just see it now. A bunch of ford owners having to pull over, opening and closing windows to get the car going again









_Quote, originally posted by *Funmobile* »_
(although a VW stock solution to that useless telephone button on the steering wheel would be nice...)

I was wondering if VW was working on a bluetooth handsfree solution that could be added on. Why else would they send a steering wheel to NA with a button clearing marked with a phone handset and I don't buy the "it's cheaper for VW to only make one steering wheel" argument. They clearly demonstrate in other areas they do not follow that mentality.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Next car (solarflare)*

Believe in the economy of scale.
VAG is not working on a solution. It brings them nothing, i.e., no $, to work on such a solution. Do you think VWoA has enough of a clue to work on such a thing? If you do, then I suggest you distribute whatever it is you're drinking or smoking








Cheers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

_Quote, originally posted by *solarflare* »_
I was wondering if VW was working on a bluetooth handsfree solution that could be added on. Why else would they send a steering wheel to NA with a button clearing marked with a phone handset and I don't buy the "it's cheaper for VW to only make one steering wheel" argument. They clearly demonstrate in other areas they do not follow that mentality. 



_Modified by liquid stereo at 7:27 AM 8-30-2007_


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Even better.*


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

This car get's 40-50mpg? Looks pretty sharp.


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## jnhashmi (Nov 26, 2006)

Not even thinking about it. I hope to have my Eos for the next twenty years. Our other car is a 17 year old Carolla going strong. I know I'm pressing my luck with VW, but that's my hope!


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## jmg3637 (Jul 17, 2006)

*Re: Next car (jnhashmi)*

Next car will be to replace my wife's Acura MDX. I hope that that will be at least another 5 years. By then I will be looking for a good Hybrid small SUV


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