# 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best?



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

ok i want to get cams in my bunny...
whats then best for the street and track...tons of people are saying 288's (autotech ot TT?) is it?
i drive it daily but i want to run it at the track some....
i ran it last weekend and i need more rpms ....
also will i NEED better springs too?
any help would be great.....


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (nothingleavesstock)*

Don't run anything much bigger then a 268 on stock compression, especially with an unported head.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (need_a_VR6)*

now why is that? cause a bunch of people i know are running 276 and 288 on stock motors, just add hd springs.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (nothingleavesstock)*

Powerband. You can use them at the expense of low end and the added high end won't help you anway because the head can't flow up there and you don't have the comp to support a cam that large. Sure you can use them but they won't be as effective as a smaller set. Top end isn't just a cam change away. Also if you think you need rpm, make your runners about 3" longer, you won't need it anymore.


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (need_a_VR6)*

i fully agree with need_a_vr6 here..big cams are worthless without the proper head work...its kinda like suspension, it works but only so well, you're better off with a worse setup (smaller cam) that matches up with what you already have and will work out alot nicer as a whole


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (VWralley)*

so what size would be best for a 2.0L? 276?


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Don't run anything much bigger then a 268 on stock compression, especially with an unported head.


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## MorpheusMac (Jan 6, 2001)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (VWralley)*

keep your stock cams, get head work done, throw on an adjustable cam gear, then go for the big cams....pointless until you do the headwork...it's like blowing through a straw


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (MorpheusMac)*

For the money the TT ABF copy cams are a good value.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (need_a_VR6)*

I mentioned that to many people over cam that engine in an IM earlier when I told him about those Crowers I came across. I know for a fact that TT/ABF cams will make the power on a carb set up, very good power. 
268's with .41-.45" lift will get the job done for damn near everything, especially when you consider the RPM band of your typical/average engine with some work done to it.
Honestly, I see way more people trying to make a 8.5K+ engine when the focus should be on getting more power in the range where the engine actual makes it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (billyVR6)*

yea i'm not trying to pull10K rpm's! haha
i want more pull 5K to redline type thing....
with the itbs the car pulls prefect from 3K up the dyno chart is almost level from 3500 to redline, its funny!
i love the car how it is but it just needs a bit more punch to it
what do you guys think of this setup with HD springs?
http://www.mjmautohaus.com/cat...d=280


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## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (nothingleavesstock)*

hey man its Ryan, i had the red 16v itb golf up the row from you at the campbelltown show. i am running the autotech cam set with TT HD springs and a mild p/p and the setup runs quite well. never got a chance to dyno since the itb's/MS were put on though. 
i dunno where coopersburg is at, but once i finish installing my new throttles i could possibly swing by and take you for a rip before i put my 276's in...


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## Fast929 (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (mk2dubbin)*

The biggest problem with big cam's is the overlap. That time when both intake and exhaust are open. It's during that time that a motor isn't making any power. So in order to make up for the loss in dynamic compression, you need to bump the static. A 10:1 motor with 288's in it will run like a 8:1. It's all about cylinder pressure.
Also, as other have stated, without a properly ported head that can breath with big valve lifts and duration, your just trying to fill a swimming pool with a garden hose.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (nothingleavesstock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothingleavesstock* »_i want more pull 5K to redline type thing....

All depends on what you call redline. I know that a bone stock ABF with the mods above really starts to lose pull above 6500 but at 5k it's a BEAST. You won't be getting pull to 7500 without some other, more indepth work, ITB's or not.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (need_a_VR6)*

my dyno chart pulled to 7400 and really never fell off much
(well 5 hp and 3 tq)...so i'd like to get power to that for sure....
more power from 4500 to 7500 would be nice..
peak power was at 5700


_Modified by nothingleavesstock at 12:21 PM 6-21-2007_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (nothingleavesstock)*

Post up the chart, the car weight and the ET.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (need_a_VR6)*

can scan the chart but i'll try to explain!!
torque starts at 2500 rpm and is at 112ftlbs raises to 117 at 40 and stayes there till 6K then drops a bit to 105
hp 4000RPM is 95hp then 5.5K 118hp and peaks at 5700 at 121hp then drops out at at 6500 to 110
light .024
60 ft was 2.13
et was 15.034 at 88.7 mph
rev limiter at 7200
weight is a stock 2 door 79 rabbit
wheels are 13x7 with 195 70 13(yes not the best for drags-street car too) spun on the lines bad!
sorry if this isn't great info!!
i want a mid 14 sec car and still have it cool on the street around 4000+rpm's
thanks for your guys help so far


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (nothingleavesstock)*

have you even ran it yet to see where you are at? my fuel only ms on stock motor ran a 15.07 on a horrible tune, gutted interior and street tires..


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (nothingleavesstock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothingleavesstock* »_peaks at 5700 at 121hp then drops out at at 6500 to 110 


There is no reason to take that engine up to 7500rpm just because it reved up there on the dyno, especially when your droping off 11whp by 6500rpm. You should really look for a cam that will have you making more power from 5k through 6500rpm with little to no loss of bottom at all.
Also, what head is it, 1.8L or a 2.0L?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (billyVR6)*

stock 2.0 head...yea i don't need to rev it out to 7500 but a bit over 6500 are at least good pull thru 6500
272 are on top of the list as of now


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## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (nothingleavesstock)*

my autotech cams peaked out at 128whp @ 6500 with stock cam timing on the aptuning dynojet.
that was when the motor was a bone stock 9A (other than cams), was running on digi1 with an uber lean A/F of 15:1.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (mk2dubbin)*

which autotech cams?


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## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (nothingleavesstock)*

just the current sport cams. thats all theyve made for quite some time.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (mk2dubbin)*

Those ones are pretty close to the TT/ABF cams. They'll work fine. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You can probably drop off a half second just by shifting lower, around 6300-6400 if you were taking it out into the 7's.
Remember you don't have a Honda.. heck you don't even have a decent multi valve cylinder head in the grand scheme of things.








Looking at your ITB setup you can probably also gain a lot by just tossing another 3-4" Velocity stack on those short runners you have.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (need_a_VR6)*

yea the runners could be longer for sure...BUT that won't change...i'm lazy hahah and they are in and solid!! doing open longer stacks instead of filters help any?
yea i'm going to set the car up again and try shifting at 6300-6500 instead....
i'm going to do cams either wayy...268 or 272's.....


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (nothingleavesstock)*

Who makes the 272s? I don't think you can lose with TT 268s or the ABF copy cams.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (need_a_VR6)*

268's is it i guess!
that mjm package deal....those ok or just go with the TT straight up 268 set?
these or no>?
http://www.mjmautohaus.com/cat...d=280 


_Modified by nothingleavesstock at 9:09 AM 6-22-2007_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (nothingleavesstock)*

The Autotech's are good, as they're the same or *really* close to the ABF cams, just liket the TT street cams. They're good enough to put a 2300lb car into the mid 13's with slicks on a rough tune. They'll be fine to put a 2000lb Rabbit into the mid 14's








Though if you're even thinking about compression increase or headwork eventually, the 268s could be the way to go. If you're thinking about future boost, the smaller cams will be better.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (need_a_VR6)*

never boost on the itbs....
so 268 is it huh?


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (nothingleavesstock)*

I would say that or one of those slightly split durations better work with your cylinder head.
Just get the one that fits your bottle neck...


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## dk2gti (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: 16v, 2.0L itb on MS...cams?..288 best? (billyVR6)*

i am also ordering the autotech sport cams for my 16v. do they usually come with the cam gears?


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