# 1.8T manual says either 5w-30 or 5w-40



## CsSWG (Nov 2, 2016)

For 2017 GSW I would prefer to run 507.00 spec. backwards compatible 5w-30 due to what I believe is better qualities and engine protection than the backwards compatible 505.01 5w-40 excepting temperature. However, I would think that the 5w-40 would provide better temp. protection in the summer. But VW says either one is fine?? Does it matter? Will both provide the same level of temperature and oil adequacy for the engine?


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## rcprato (Sep 14, 2007)

*VW Spec Oil Only !*

What is most important is that it meets the VW Specification for your engine, not all synthetic oils are created equal.

There is a Class Action Law Suit around your 1.8T engine and oil sludge build up that starves oil flow through your engine, it is a non issue if the correct VW spec oil has been used in the 1.8T since Day 1.

Has a lot to do with heat that is caused by Turbo and ability of the oil not to coke or form small hard balls.

Easiest VW Spec Oil to be found is either Castrol 5w40 or Mobil 1 0w40, both will have the VW Spec 502 listed on the bottles. No need to worry about any other viscosity range.

Topic has been beat to death on the Forums, look here if you are interested in more detailed information
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3599947


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## CsSWG (Nov 2, 2016)

I didn't realize the sludge issue was still there. I remember hearing about it when I picked up my new JettaTDI in 2000.

I will definitely stick with the spec. oil. To bad 507.00 only comes in 5w-30


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## rcprato (Sep 14, 2007)

Got this email blast today from Europa Parts about choosing oil, do you need VW507?

I think VW507 is for diesel engines, may be of no benefit to your gas 1.8T so stick to what VW spec they recommend.
http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=7867e1c495841417babe35a16&id=6529705e10&e=ca2c83380c 

Personally I use Ravenol VMO that I buy online from Blauparts that is made in Germany, IMO the best I have ever run in my turbo 4 cyl VW engines and get almost zero burn off in my 2.0T over 5K miles changes and I am now at 150K.


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## CsSWG (Nov 2, 2016)

Thanks. Very good results!! I was using this chart to compare the spec oil qualities: http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php

The manual says use 502, 503, or 504 spec oil. The 507 spec oil came later and is backwards compatible to 504 spec oil. It is actually both 504/507 spec. So while I do use it for my diesels, it is also a gas oil but is 5w30. The 505.01 spec oil came later and is backwards compatible to 502. The 502/505.01 spec. oil is a 5w40 but while the 5w40 oil is a little thicker, according to the chart you are giving up different engine protection benefits. The 503/506/506.01 oil is a 0w30 oil

Assuming the chart is valid...


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

CsSWG said:


> For 2017 GSW I would prefer to run 507.00 spec. backwards compatible 5w-30 due to what I believe is better qualities and engine protection than the backwards compatible 505.01 5w-40 excepting temperature. However, I would think that the 5w-40 would provide better temp. protection in the summer. But VW says either one is fine?? Does it matter? Will both provide the same level of temperature and oil adequacy for the engine?


505.01 is designed to initially shear down to a thinner viscosity, then its viscosity builds up with soot thickening. the 1.8TSI won't produce soot in the amounts of the 1.9L PD motor prior to ULSD.

507.00 has lower TBN (detergents), so I suspect it may not be adequate for 10,000 mile oil change intervals, in part due to TBN and higher sulphur in our gasoline. 5,000 miles would be better if supported by oil sampling tests.


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

A lot of confusion over thin US 30 weights measuring 10cSt and thick Euro 30 weights at 12cSt visc. 

If your oil isn't an ACEA "A3" rated 30 weight, it's thin and technically not right for VW specs, but I use it in winter....it's an excellent choice in most cases. I even did a few lab analysis on thin 30 weight in my APR 2.0Tsi and wear was super low. 

See, 5w-40 is actually too thick in cold, esp for lubing turbos, that's why 0w-40 was developed. Euro thick 5w-30 is about the same across the board visc/temp wise. All the new VW 504/507 oils are 5w-30.....BUT that formula is low additives for Euro emissions laws....it DOES NOT work well with the high sulphur and alcohol in our USA fuels. I could go on a lecture explaining it, but simply don't use VW 504 oils like Castrol Pro OE or Mobil 1 ESP except in diesels.

Easy to go for 6 month intervals and use thick 5w-40 in summer and 0w-40 or 5w-30 for winter 6 months later. I reuse the filter for 2 changes.


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

Amazon has good deals on Ultra 0w-40, made from natural gas base oil, extremely clean.










Use the "subscribe and save" function, then submit the rebate online at PZ.com and it comes out to like $22/6q

We just brought home a new Tiguan, and we ordered a few cases to have warranty receipts. It is the best product.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

T Dog said:


> Amazon has good deals on Ultra 0w-40, made from natural gas base oil, extremely clean.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


From a warranty standpoint, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w40 may work against you. No VW502.00 certification. Further more, it's not ACEA A3/B4. It meets ACEA A1/B1 and A5/B5, which means HTHS is less than 3.5 MPa. VW502.00 (as well as ACEA A3/B4) requires a minimum of 3.5 MPa.

The Platinum *Euro* is what you want to order. That lineup has the VW502.00 for your warranty


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

Yeah, it has to be the only 0w-40 without VW approval. A hair thicker then the Euro A3, it surely meets the >3.5cP HT/HS spec for A3 and VW 502. That's what makes it cheap, the VW stamp just adds cost, and frankly, 502 is a lame and antiquated spec.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

T Dog said:


> Yeah, it has to be the only 0w-40 without VW approval. A hair thicker then the Euro A3, it surely meets the >3.5cP HT/HS spec for A3 and VW 502. That's what makes it cheap, the VW stamp just adds cost, and frankly, 502 is a lame and antiquated spec.


The additive package makes it not meet A3. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

How so? Additive chemistry isn't part of ACEA A3 spec. Do you have a published TBN <8?

I don't understand why you think it compares unfavorably against 0w-40 Euro. 

It sports the highest flashpoint of any SOPUS oil, by 25 degrees. That tells us something.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

T Dog said:


> How so? Additive chemistry isn't part of ACEA A3 spec. Do you have a published TBN <8?
> 
> I don't understand why you think it compares unfavorably against 0w-40 Euro.
> 
> It sports the highest flashpoint of any SOPUS oil, by 25 degrees. That tells us something.


Oil specifications are about performance specification.

so, how can a 0w30 or 5w30 meet ACEA A3/B4, when your 0w40 you ordered cannot?

The secret is in the additive package.


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

If you're trying to say ACEA stipulates the additive pack, just come out and say it.

That would be news to me.

I'm not seeing it not even in VW specs, nope:










I'm also not sure how this type of nit-picking serves the reader or OP, who was just looking for a solution between 5w-30 and 5w-40. :facepalm:


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## CsSWG (Nov 2, 2016)

Interesting discussion. I have Motul Specific 507 5w-40 and Liqui Moly top tech 4200 5w-30. 

With these oils that I already have, sounds like 5w-30 is thicker than the US oil and would be a good 4 season option?? or would you go 5w-30 in winter and 5w-40 in summer? 

Would you expect the euro thicker 5w-40 normally to increase engine temp. in summer much over euro 5w-30?


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

T Dog said:


> If you're trying to say ACEA stipulates the additive pack, just come out and say it.
> 
> That would be news to me.
> 
> ...


I nitpick, because you're spreading false information, because you have no clue how it works. Viscosity alone does not dictate HTHS performance, especially, when you look at the product specification for the 0w40 that you are recommending, as the ACEA specs it meets does not meet the HTHS needed for current VW specs in the US (and compatible ACEA specification). The fact that a thinner oil can meet HTHS, says your assumptions is wrong.



CsSWG said:


> Interesting discussion. I have Motul Specific 507 5w-40 and Liqui Moly top tech 4200 5w-30.
> 
> With these oils that I already have, sounds like 5w-30 is thicker than the US oil and would be a good 4 season option?? or would you go 5w-30 in winter and 5w-40 in summer?
> 
> Would you expect the euro thicker 5w-40 normally to increase engine temp. in summer much over euro 5w-30?


504.00/507.00 is only available in 5w30. Motul specific 507 is not 5w40, but 5w30. And your LM Toptech 4200 is also 5w30. 504/507 doesn't have the same level of detergents compared to 502.00. It only have about 2/3's the level of detergents, so combined with our higher sulfur content in our gasoline, 10,0000 mile OCI would probably not be achievable. Without used oil analysis, I would have to guess 5,000 mile oil changes.

I personally go 5w40 in the summer and 0w40 in the winter (usually, Mobil 1 0w40 or Castrol 0w40, whichever is cheaper at Walmart), and use 502.00 certified oils during the warranty period.


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

You continue to try to state what it "isn't", how about stating what it IS for a change. 

Now you're sideways trying to claim that additive packs affect HT/HS, which I know for a fact is pure speculation. :laugh:

In fact, it's contradictory to talk about 12cSt 5w-30 with HT/HS >3.5 cP for A3&502 when PZ Ultra Platinum is 14.7cSt at +100C, but you think it's ~thinner~ at +150C? Can you state a clear reason this oil wouldn't fit the pattern of a thicker +100C visc oil having a thicker +150C HT/HS? That would defy known physics. Surely you will avoid saying so.

This is completely unrelated to the labeling and approvals for VW, which is the only meaningful topic so far. 

Meanwhile, I bought 2 more cases from Amazon "Subscribe and Save" at $32 for a six pack. Then I submitted online for $12 rebates, bringing it down to $20/6. I had to move up the delivery dates since the rebates end in December. 

http://offers.pennzoil.com/rebate

It is the only oil Pennzoil rates in their "Extreme Performance" category.










See, Platinum Euro and Ultra Platinum are two different performance levels. I know it's hard to think of anything being better than Euro spec.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

T Dog said:


> We just brought home a new Tiguan, and we ordered a few cases to have warranty receipts. It is the best product.


Why would you buy the wrong oil and save the receipt for warranty purposes? Are you providing them evidence that IF there is an engine problem, it will be denied? Are you that thrifty over a couple bucks per qt that you will take that risk? Why is the wrong product considered the 'best' product? If it's the best product, why would it not pass the specs VW requires to maintain your warranty?

I'm curious of your reasoning, 'cause I think your wallet is dictating your decision, not common sense.

Is it a public service that you provide that would recommend to others to use the wrong spec oil? 

Just wondering that's all.


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

I thought it was clear that Platinum Ultra is a tier above Platinum.

Why wouldn't I want the best?

You seem confused about how VW specs work. It's not a matter if an oil *can* make spec, it's a matter if VW got paid the $500k royalty fee. VW 502 spec is weak and antiquated....not difficult to meet, it's just a matter of marketing.

Speaking of which Platinum Euro is $67/6....that's times 2 cars twice a year.....and it's not even as good as Platinum Ultra. I'm going to spend almost $300 a year on oil?

So, yes I'm using a better oil for less, but have a receipt for spec oil in case I need it. Is there something wrong with that?


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## VR6OOM (Nov 8, 2002)

I'm running 5w30 total quartz ineo mc3 502 505.01 in my '14 1.8tsi and my wife's '16 GSW 1.8tsi mqb. Great oil as the results speak for themselves. I'm going to resample after a 10k mile oil change. 504/507 won't have enough TBN for a 10k oci since my midsaps will be close to depleted. I drive mostly highway.


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## CsSWG (Nov 2, 2016)

Looks great! Just curious, where do you usually get your fuel?


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

T Dog said:


> You seem confused about how VW specs work.
> 
> So, yes I'm using a better oil for less, but have a receipt for spec oil in case I need it. Is there something wrong with that?


Maybe I'll shed some light on my past experience. I was the guy that would deny your warranty claim because you did not use the oil that passed my manufacturers specs. You would make my job much easier by giving me the receipts that just proves that you put the wrong oil in the engine. I would be the person who would shake your hand with that smart a$$ grin and say there is nothing that I can do, sorry. On a good day, I would also get to see the look on the lawyers face knowing that it would never go to court.

If VW denies your warranty and you expect Pennzoil to step up, read the fine print on their website, they put a disclaimer saying to follow the manufacturers specs. I have not worked for Pennzoil, but I would probably tell you the same.

You should see the look of an owner that used Biodiesel in his leased vehicle. His engine was sludged up and seized. He did not get a warranty either. Being a leased vehicle, he had to turn it in fixed. He also lost most of his warranty because of that too. Reading the fine print, that effected the lease agreement too. The vehicle was virtually worthless as a lease return. Talk about a trifecta, he lost tens of thousands of dollars. I just smiled and shook his hand. 

People really need to look at their decisions and understand the downfall of them. It's not my fault, the car manufacturers, or the oil manufacturers, it's you, the customer, that prevents me from doing the right thing. I just follow the rules clearly laid out, you choose to pick and choose what you want to do. If you're the judge, great, but you're not. I was.

So, IF you have a warranty issue, you are using an inferior oil and it would not pass the warranty requirements. Do I need to spell it out to you with why that is wrong and by you spreading your information may effect others. It's very clear what's wrong with your decision. 

Of course, if you never had a warranty issue, then you're fine.

So, if any of you are under warranty, save your receipts, make certain you are using the proper oil spec as written in your warranty manual, do not forget to use a proper spec oil filter too [keep a diary on the mileage/date too]. Just because people on on the internet indicating 'because it says 'Ultra Platinum' and 'It's the best we make'' does not make it right.


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## VR6OOM (Nov 8, 2002)

CsSWG said:


> Looks great! Just curious, where do you usually get your fuel?


Shell 75% of the time. BP the other. I also have a 30 mile one way commute, hence no fuel in the oil.


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

I know how warranty works, that's why I have receipts for Mobil 1 0w-40 too.

For the record I will DEFINITELY be using the Ultra Platinum 0w-40 SRT spec, in the brand-new engine, also mixing it 50% with Platinum 5w-30 for winter.

See, gas-to-liquid base oil is cleaner, with 25% less piston deposits the Mobil 1, and way less than SynPower, et al.










Someone is welcome to buy the Platinum Euro 0w-40 to meet spec for warranty or to sleep better at night....it's $67 a brick.

OR, get an even better product without the old VW 502 spec from 1998 for half the price in Platinum ULTRA 0w-40.

Not even a dilemma, I'll use up the Mobil 1 in my beater 2013 Allroad w/APR


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

T Dog said:


> I know how warranty works, that's why I have receipts for Mobil 1 0w-40 too.
> 
> For the record I will DEFINITELY be using the Ultra Platinum 0w-40 SRT spec, in the brand-new engine


If you know how warranty works, I do not understand why you insist on putting a non approved oil in your engine [and think your warranty work would be covered]? Do you think you could use an approved Mobil 1 oil receipt and think we would not test your oil? 

Do you believe in all the marketing claims that a manufacture makes? VW has a diesel engine that is the cleanest around, remember that?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure if you change the oil as often as you do you will not have an issue, but I really think you are misguided in your beliefs. All manufacturers want to keep all your money after the sale. If you think we will roll over on an engine failure, you're wrong. We'll do our best to prove it's your fault, but if we determine if it's not, we'll do our best to make it right.


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

Here is what I've been using on the Gen3 1.8t (2014 passat) - http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...mula-5w-40-synthetic-motor-oil/?code=aflqt-ea. Works really well with a 5K OCI.


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## surfstar (Mar 13, 2016)

giantsnation said:


> Here is what I've been using on the Gen3 1.8t (2014 passat) - http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...mula-5w-40-synthetic-motor-oil/?code=aflqt-ea. Works really well with a 5K OCI.


ANY VW 502 oil will "work really well with a 5k OCI".

If you're only running 5k OCIs, the cheapest 502 oil is more than adequate. M1 0w40 from Walmart or Amazon, especially when they have a rebate available. Stock up when its ~$2/qt and your engine won't know the difference, but your wallet will.


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## TurboDieselPoint (Jul 16, 2013)

I'm a bit of an oil n00b, so please forgive me. I am, however, about to buy a 2017 Passat 1.8 TSI to replace my 2014 Passat TDI 6MT that I am selling back to VW.

Looking through the owner's manual and documents on erWin, I too came across the dillemma: 5W30 502.00 or 5W40 502.00. No document I have come across indicates VW has any preference for one over the other, so I guess either would work fine. However, I can't imagine both would be truly equal under all conditions.

Reading through this thread, I was in a bit over my head and couldn't draw any firm conclusion about which is preferable.

Has the 1.8 TSI had better luck in the long run with 5W30 or 5W40 for the OEM 10K oil change interval? Generally speaking, I live in a hot climate but the winters can have brutal cold snaps (<20F) from time to time.

Which oil comes in the car from the factory, and what oil do the dealerships generally use? Is either weight better for preventing carbon buildup than the other?

Thanks in advance to all the oil experts!


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

5W30 in the winter.
5W40 in the summer.


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## surfstar (Mar 13, 2016)

PowerslavePA said:


> 5W30 in the winter.
> 5W40 in the summer.


Or 0w40 year round


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

surfstar said:


> Or 0w40 year round


Good for the 3rd Gen EA888 1.8 also?


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## surfstar (Mar 13, 2016)

PowerslavePA said:


> Good for the 3rd Gen EA888 1.8 also?


As long as its VW 502. You can get Mobil 1 0w40 or Castrol 0w30 that meet 502. 

The M1 is a "thin" 40wt and the Castrol a "thick" 30wt, so they are very similar at operating temps. 


You still can't go wrong with the cheapest VW 502 oil you can find. That meets the specs and it doesn't matter what grade it is, your engine will run just fine.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

surfstar said:


> As long as its VW 502. You can get Mobil 1 0w40 or Castrol 0w30 that meet 502.
> 
> The M1 is a "thin" 40wt and the Castrol a "thick" 30wt, so they are very similar at operating temps.
> 
> ...


Thanks.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

I checked the Castrol Edge "Yellow" Label that people are saying not to use,
old formulation... So, I decided to look at the oil specifications today, and 
here is what I found:

Yellow Label, as shown prior









Back of Oil Quart









*Look closer:*









Bingo, 501, 502, AND 505.

So, not so old formula anymore?


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

Walmart has has the Euro 0W40 5-quart jug on sale for $22.88, picked up two the past few
weeks... 22.88 / 5 = 4.58 (rounded up) a quart...


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## surfstar (Mar 13, 2016)

PowerslavePA said:


> Walmart has has the Euro 0W40 5-quart jug on sale for $22.88, picked up two the past few
> weeks... 22.88 / 5 = 4.58 (rounded up) a quart...


Good price. Mobil usually does a $10 rebate in spring/fall, so it might be coming up on 9/1...

Also Pennzoil Platinum Euro is $25.68 at Walmart and qualifies for a $10 Pennzoil rebate... 
You'd want the 0w40 which is 502/505 approved.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

surfstar said:


> Good price. Mobil usually does a $10 rebate in spring/fall, so it might be coming up on 9/1...
> 
> Also Pennzoil Platinum Euro is $25.68 at Walmart and qualifies for a $10 Pennzoil rebate...
> You'd want the 0w40 which is 502/505 approved.


Yeah, I'll keep buying them as I go to a Walmart, if they're on sale. I have two 5-quart
bottles now. I put 1800 miles a week on the car, so I change it every 5-6 weeks.

Edit: 8/7/17 - Three jugs now...


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## surfstar (Mar 13, 2016)

PowerslavePA said:


> Yeah, I'll keep buying them as I go to a Walmart, if they're on sale. I have two 5-quart
> bottles now. I put 1800 miles a week on the car, so I change it every 5-6 weeks.
> 
> Edit: 8/7/17 - Three jugs now...


There is a current M1 rebate! https://apfco.com/secure/R8235W/Content/OfferForm.pdf?v=2_2017Fall
FYI - M1 rebates are valid at WalMart/WalMart.com, but no longer for Amazon

I picked up a couple more jugs of M1 0w40 for my TSI and then a couple of the Pennzoil 5w30 Euro L for TDIs (note, not vw507 approved, but carries MB-229.51)


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

> Send original register receipt(s) showing proof of purchase of five (5) or ten (10) quarts of any Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil.


I don't think that covers the 5-quart jugs, does it? If so, you'd be getting oil dirt cheap... 
Especially if they're $25.88 or less at Walmart... Individual quarts are over $8.00, times
5, that's $40.00, yet the 5-quart jugs are less...


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## surfstar (Mar 13, 2016)

PowerslavePA said:


> I don't think that covers the 5-quart jugs, does it? If so, you'd be getting oil dirt cheap...
> Especially if they're $25.88 or less at Walmart... Individual quarts are over $8.00, times
> 5, that's $40.00, yet the 5-quart jugs are less...


Don't worry, it most certainly works with the 5qt jugs. Done it many times. Check your purchase dates, you should be good to get the rebate too. 
$22.88 - $12 = best deal on VW 502 oil you are likely to find

Limit two (10 qts) per house/name. Stock up. Use neighbors or friends/family address...


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

For how fast I go through oil, I can buy two more this week, and rebate....


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

Let me try to straighten out a few things.

My 5w-30 for winter is thinner than 0w-40 at cold start.

I have receipts for M1 0w-40 which I will produce for warranty, if needed.

I use 0w-40, PZ Ultra Viper Spec....no VAG spec

My dealer won't deny my warranty, so drop the authoritative voice.

Light 5w-30 or 0w-30 will produce low wear, even in an APR application. I have the CAT UOAs to demonstrate it.

Again, if you don't see cold, you have HEAVY mods and drive hard and long enough to heat up the oil, go for the 5w-40.

VW 504/507 is a poor choice in North America due to our fuel full of sulphur and alcohol. The low additives mean that it's NOT REALLY a direct replacement for 502. This is partly why dealers use Syntec 5w-40 by the drum, it's an old diesel engine formula that combats chemical damage as well as the sheer and dilution coming from 10k intervals and rich North American tune. 

If you are doing 5k (pref 6 month) changes, visc loss and chemical damage is not an issue, you can use a light 5w-30. Euro 5w-30 w/VAG specs are thicker, 12cSt vs "American" ISLAC 10cSt or 14cSt for 40 weights. 

0w-40 is the best year-round visc, not 5w-40. Light jug 5w-30 like PZ Platinum is great for stock/light mods/winter etc. 5w-40 like Rotella is great for HOT weather/towing/tracking/heavy mods. 

Now that M1 and Castrol both have jugs of 0w-40 for $25, it's hard to argue against them. I will say that chasing Euro brand oils is folly. They are the same as other spec oils that simply order their pre-approved additive pack from Lubrizol. How do you think there are 100s of VW spec oils? All little shops perfecting their own formula hoping VW "approves" them? No, they get the pre-approved add pack, mix it with speced base oil and bottle it w/a $500k/3yr licence from VW. VW Vortex could market their own approved oil without any lab work.

If you want a better oil than M1 0w-40, PZ Ultra 0w-40 is it. Other contenders exist with AMSoil and a few others, but with 5k changes, it is not worth worrying about. Better to put the money saved from not buying a Euro oil toward a UOA. 

Amazon has great deals on oil. M1 6-pk goes on sale for $26 when it's out of stock. I have 3 cases I don't even plan to use....for the receipts.

I'll add stuff to the tread later.

Like I say, best bet is 5w-40 in summer, drain and fill with 5w-30 for winter, sticking to 6 month intervals. Reuse the filter for both changes, just unscrew halfway and listen for the oil to gurgle out thru the engine. So we have about $60 a year for 2 jugs and one filter. I cannot imagine a better or more cost-effective way to maintain.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

*I use 0w-40, PZ Ultra Viper Spec....no VAG spec*

*Like I say, best bet is 5w-40 in summer, drain and fill with 5w-30 for winter,*

*Let me try to straighten out a few things.*

*5w-40 like Rotella is great for HOT weather/towing/tracking/heavy mods. *

*VW 504/507 is a poor choice in North America due to our fuel full of sulphur and alcohol.* (Same with all other diesel formulated motor oil)


Good try.... Two contradictions, but good try....


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

Don't be stupid.

I only have to do one oil change a year.

I'm not even sure what your diesel oil babble is all about.

You sure know a lot about nothing. It shows in your post.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

T Dog said:


> Don't be stupid.
> 
> I only have to do one oil change a year.
> 
> ...


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

PowerslavePA said:


> I checked the Castrol Edge "Yellow" Label that people are saying not to use,
> old formulation... So, I decided to look at the oil specifications today, and
> here is what I found:
> 
> ...



That is hilarious. Those are all old specs, with VW 502 dating to 1998.

You know what else, it isn't actually licenced for those specs anyway, it's "recommended for" or they are mere "performance claims" as per the Castrol PDS:

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/E13A9F271142244680257FAA0072394D/$File/BPXE-AA5D4U.pdf

Product Performance Claims
ACEA A3/B4
API SN/CF
BMW Longlife-01
MB-Approval 229.3
Porsche A40
VW 501 01/ 502 00 / 505 00

So, there is THAT. 

I'm glad you're basing all your posts on incorrect assumptions. Many of the specs listed are mutually exclusive, meaning the oil cannot physically meet both specs.

I could follow-up with some more info, or just do a little more study yourself.

https://www.lubrizol.com/en/Lubrica...-Oil-Additives/ACEA/Relative-Performance-Tool


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

5w-30 or 5w-40?

How about half of each? I have a Audi 3.2 DI UOA around that is amazing.

Half Rotella Synth, half Pennzoil Platinum.

That's a 10cSt oil mixed with a 14cSt oil getting us 12cSt, which is where Euro oils are trending....a thick 30 weight.

This is from 2010, all 504 oils are 5w-30, where you been at?

https://www.my-gti.com/2540/volkswagen-oil-standard-504-00-507-00-approved-oils

Manufacturer	Product	SAE Class	VW Standard
Adamol	Adamol Multitop Longlife	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Addinol	Addinol Giga light MV 0530 LL	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Addinol	Addinol Mega Light MV 0539	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Addinol	MEGA STAR	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Aegean Oil	Velox Ultra XT	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Agip	Agip 7008	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Agip	Formula Future	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
AMAG	GAMAPARTS Super LongLife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Aral	Aral SuperTronic Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Auto-Teile-Ring	Cartechnic Motorenöl Multi	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Avia	Avia Synth 5W-30 Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Avia	Aviasynth LSP plus	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Avia	Avilubsynth LSP Plus	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
BayWa	Tectrol Speed LL 530	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
BayWa	Tectrol Speed Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
BP	BP Visco 7000 Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Carat	ad-High Tech Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Castrol	Castrol Edge	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Castrol	Castrol Edge 5W-30	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Castrol	Castrol Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Castrol	Castrol SLX Professional LL03	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Castrol	Castrol SLX Professional Longlife III 5W-30	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Castrol	Castrol SLX Professional Powerflow Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Castrol	Castrol SLX Professional Powerflow Longlife III 5W-30	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Castrol	Castrol TXT 507 00	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
CENTRO	CENTRO Motoröl Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Cyclon Hellas	Cyclon F1 V	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Denicol	Denicol Syn Extra Long Life III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Elf	Elf Excellium TDI	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Elf	Elf Solaris LLX	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Emka	Superpower C-3	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
EPRO	Meisteröl WIV Longlife	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Eurol	Eurol Syntence	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Finke	Aviaction Unique LongLife WIV	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Fuchs	Fuchs Sintolux Force V	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Fuchs	Fuchs TITAN GT1 Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Fuchs	Fuchs TITAN GT1 PRO C-3	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Galp	Galp Formula Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Globus Fachmärkte	multilub Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Gulf	Gulf Formula GVX	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Hunold	EUROLUB WIV ECO	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Igol	Igol Profive 504/507	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Liqui Moly	LIQUI MOLY Pro-Engine M600	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Liqui Moly	LIQUI MOLY Top Tec 4200	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Lotos	Lotos Quazar LLIII	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Mabanol	Mabanol Xenon Ultra Synth Longlife	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Meguin	megol Motorenoel Compatible	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Millers Oils	XF Longlife	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Minerva	Minerva TSV	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Mitan	Alpine Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Mitan	Mitan Monza GP 5W-30 Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Mitan	Monza Super Combi	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Mobil	Mobil 1 ESP Formula	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Mobil	Mobil SHC Formula V	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Mobil	Mobil Super 3000 Formula V	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
MOL	MOL Dynamic Gold Longlife	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Motor Oil Hellas	EMO SYNTO MAX	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Motul	Feu Vert 50400 507 00	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Motul	Motol Specific 504 00 507 00	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Motul	Motul 8100 X-clean +	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Neste Oil	Neste City Pro W Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Norsk-Pennsylvansk	DynoCat Voltron LL	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Oel-Brack	Midland Crypto-3	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Ölwerke Julius Schindler	OJS Econo-Veritas Longlife III 5W-30	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
OMV	OMV BIXXOL special V7	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Paz Lubricants & Chemicals Ltd	Paz Extreme 507.00	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Pennzoil	Pennzoil Platinum VX	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Pennzoil	Pennzoil Platinum VX	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Pennzoil	Pennzoil Ultra Euro L	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Penrite Oil	ENVIRO +	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Pentosin	Pento Super Performance III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Petronas	Petronas Syntium 5000 AV	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Quaker State	Q Diesel Plus	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Quaker State	Q European Engine VX	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Quaker State	QS Q Diesel Plus	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Quaker State	QS Ultimate Durability European L	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Quaker State	Quaker State Q Diesel Plus	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Ravenol	Ravenol Vollsynthetisches Multioel Protect VMP	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Ravenol	RAVENOL WIV III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
real,-	real,-Quality GSL	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Repsol	Repsol Elite Longlife 50700/50400	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Rowe	Hightec Ecosynt Longlife III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Rowe	Multi Synt DPF	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Shanghai Lizhong	LiZhong No.1	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Shell	Shell Helix Diesel Ultra Extra	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Shell	Shell Helix Diesel Ultra Extra	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Shell	Shell Helix Ultra AV-L	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Shell	Shell Helix Ultra AV-L	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Shell	Shell Helix Ultra Extra	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Shell	Shell Helix Ultra Extra	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Shell	Shell Helix Ultra VX	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Shell	Shell Helix Ultra VX	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Sinopec	Great Wall Ultra Gold V5457	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
SRS	SRS ViVA 1 SLV plus	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
SWD	GECCO Motorenöl VZW	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
SWD	swd PRIMUS LLX	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Techno GmbH	Tecar Motorenoel 504 00 / 507 00	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Total	Total Activa 504/507	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Total	Total Quartz INEO 507/507	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Unil Opal	Opaljet Energy 3	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Valvoline	Valvoline SynPower XL-III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
VAPS	Vapsoil 507 00	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Vapsoil	Vapsoil 507 00	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Volkswagen Original Teile ®	LongLife III Hochleistungsmotorenöl	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Wolf	Wolf Masterlube Synflow LL III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Würth	Triathlon Endurance III	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Yacco	VX 2103 FAP	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700
Zeller+Gmelin	Divinol Syntholight DPF	SAE 5W-30	50400/50700


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

Good job dummy, you picked the most obsolete oil on the shelf. I think 502 was based on ACEA A2 1996, 20 years old!

It's NOT EVEN CLOSE to ACEA A5 2008 5w-30 jug synthetic like PZ or Mobil 1 from WalMart.











This is why I find it HILARIOUS when guys are chasing fancy boy European oils with the super-super VW 502 spec!

AND they want a thick manly oil like 5w-40 to make up for their tiny penis.

wtf do they think they are getting? Certainly not better oil than a smart person can find at WalMart for $20/5q


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

surfstar said:


> There is a current M1 rebate! https://apfco.com/secure/R8235W/Content/OfferForm.pdf?v=2_2017Fall
> FYI - M1 rebates are valid at WalMart/WalMart.com, but no longer for Amazon
> 
> I picked up a couple more jugs of M1 0w40 for my TSI and then a couple of the Pennzoil 5w30 Euro L for TDIs (note, not vw507 approved, but carries MB-229.51)


That's about the best choices there are for those two.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

Good, good for you T bone...

I had a 2013 TDI, 243,500+ miles using Rotella T6 and DELO 400, neither 507.00 oils.
All original drive-train, including the belts; was bought back.

Over 82000 on my 2015 Jetta TSI now,using the Castrol Edge 5W40.

Almost 115,000 on my son's 2013 Jetta "S", Using Castrol Edge.

So, 502 and 505 are old? Yeah, I saw the dates... Well, maybe you should tell VW that, 
because that's they said to use, and so does the manual. 

I am not making assumptions, I am presenting what I am doing, and it's working just fine.
I ASKED here for the most part, and presented what was on the back of the oil bottle, then
I was told 0W40 all year round, then you came along and made YOUR assumptions. 

10,000 mile OCI on all of them too, sometimes on the TDI I went 12000 to 13,000, Whoa
look out!

I will use any oil I please, and I will guarantee you, NOTHING happens... In fact, it hasn't. 
I have proof nothing happens. If their oil was so preciouse, my TDI would not have
gone 243,500 miles on $19.97 a gallon of oil from WALMART... DELO was even cheaper!

I changed my oil twice a year when I had my Charger, just a new filter every 10k, and
top off. 116,000+ miles on that when I sold it, it's still on the road...

I got an '06 HHR with 166,000 miles on it.... I use whatever 5W30 synthetic is on sale, 
ALWAYS did, and what do you know, 166,000 miles... What a shame, no Dexos 1 for me.
I replaced the clutch, and suspension stuff, no motor work, except plugs... How is
that even possible with cheap uncertified oil? Wow.

Oh, my son has my '03 Silverado, going on 90,000 miles there... 4.3 Vortec...
Whatever CHEAP 10W30 Syn for that one...

I had a 2000 Dodge Avenger ES too, traded that in with 153,000+ miles on it,
used whatever 5W30 SYN was the cheapest... NO motor work at all! That was
the Mitsubishi 2.5 V6, good motor from the start.

'06 Jeep Liberty, well over 100,000 miles at trade in for the Charger... They were
some crap motors, the jeep....

I have never, EVER had a motor blow or fail on me, EVER, in 30+ years of driving and
owning cars, doing my own work and maintenance, using whatever proper weight synthetic 
oil was on sale. 

Sorry "T", I grew up with cars, worked in a performance shop, so I know the lies and deceit. 
You wanna pay PREMIUM prices for, umm, certifications, ha ha ha.... Be my guest, I will not,
I do not, and well, I'm doing just fine, and that's what people hate. I see all over these
places how their motors are going bad, making noises, failing, USING specified oils, and,
heh heh, here I am using $HIT oil (right?), and getting 100s of thousands of miles from my cars.

We'll see how long my 1.8T lasts with EDGE 5W40. I am not worried, AT ALL... I would guess
that I will toast the motor within 2-years due to the 1800 a week miles I put on it. So, I am
not worried about oil, it's not in there long enough to matter. I bet the transmission fails
before that, and I changed the fluid and filter in that two weeks ago at 78047 miles.

You can call it whatever you like, what I am doing, works for me, so I will continue to do
it. You don't need to get all damaged over it, I am not pushing an agenda, I am telling
the truth about what I do... It works, why? Well, who knows... I do, because I don't
believe everything they say.

OR? What you won't believe is; that I am smarter than they are, and I know better. I am
smarter than 64% of the people on this ENTIRE PLANET. That will insult you more than the oil
issue, I bet... Well, has to be something, doesn't it? I mean, I can't very well be pouring
uncertified oils into my cars for 100s of thousands of miles.... Right?


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## The Kilted Yaksman (Oct 31, 2000)

T Dog said:


> This is why I find it HILARIOUS when guys are chasing fancy boy European oils with the super-super VW 502 spec!
> 
> AND they want a thick manly oil like 5w-40 to make up for their tiny penis.
> 
> wtf do they think they are getting? Certainly not better oil than a smart person can find at WalMart for $20/5q


Congratulations for posting what may be one of the crappiest things ever on the site that wasn't _actually_ enough to get somebody banned. :thumbdown:


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

Why would I care?

The truth hurts.


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

PowerslavePA said:


> Good, good for you T bone...


Why are you on the Mk7 forum trying to discuss crappy old cars and your crappy old oils?

Try to tell people, oh...you know so much about the subject, when you don't. Maybe just cover up for your lack of KNOWLEDGE with a bunch of dumb generalizations and empty anecdotes.

All you want to do is rant about your irrelevant experience of servicing old cars with oil that you have no clue about....that adds up to nothing.

You have nothing to offer and have managed to learn nothing. I'm not writing for your benefit anyway, but for other people who want to learn something.

First lesson: 20 year old oil in a new car is a fail, sound familiar?


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

T Dog said:


> Why are you on the Mk7 forum trying to discuss crappy old cars and your crappy old oils?
> 
> Try to tell people, oh...you know so much about the subject, when you don't. Maybe just cover up for your lack of KNOWLEDGE with a bunch of dumb generalizations and empty anecdotes.
> 
> ...


MK7 forum? Last I checked, it goes ALL the way back to MK1, and farther. Look much?

Knowledge? Well, there you go again, thinking.... I bet THAT hurts, a lot too....

Oh, I learned something alright, but we'll wait for your excuse...

Yeah, Keep yapping, and I'll keep driving, 100s of thousands of miles, MY way..


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

I have something for your Mk1....



















and for my Mk1...


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

For people who like spec oil...

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XWX377R/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2










$28/6q Euro 0w-40


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

I posted every car I owned, I did not use SPEC oil, I went with the cheapest Synthetic of
the proper weight there was, and you're still acting like your balls were hit with a hammer...
You're getting all uppity about people chasing spec oil, when I even said I am not. YOU 
are all over the place with this. SO what are you? FOR or AGAINST? I have made it
quite clear that I am against, but that's still not good enough for T-bag....


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

From an article I read:

Over time, with conventional oils the chemical additives used in the oil that alter its properties 
begin to break-down, vaporize, or get used up. The oil starts to return back to it’s original base oil, 
do a 5W-30 reverts back to a straight grade 5 oil, for example. As contaminants begin to work their way 
into the oil, the overall trend over a long duration is that the oil thickens across the entire spectrum. 
An old and used conventional 5W-30 oil behave very differently than a brand new 5W-30. 

Synthetic oils work quite differently. From the start, the chemical structure is designed to match a specific 
multi-grade oil. That means even without additives, you could have a 5W-30 motor oil, and then certain 
additives like rust-inhibitors or dispersants will be added to further improve the usefulness of the oil. The 
result is that over time the synthetic oil does not degrade away back to a less desirable oil as conventional 
ones do. From a viscosity standpoint, an old 5W-30 synthetic will act pretty similar to a new 5W-30 synthetic, 
although likely it will be slightly thicker as a result of contaminants. 

Synthetic oils have caused countless debates and confusion across nearly every automotive forum, and often 
with good reason. Legally, the term "synthetic" has a pretty loose definition. While some manufacturers would 
prefer the word synthetic to only apply to oils chemically formulated without the use of petroleum as a base oil, 
that is simply not how the rating system works. The group rating alone is not sufficient information to determine 
if one oil is superior to another; each group (I - V) has individual advantages and disadvantages.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

surfstar said:


> There is a current M1 rebate! https://apfco.com/secure/R8235W/Content/OfferForm.pdf?v=2_2017Fall
> FYI - M1 rebates are valid at WalMart/WalMart.com, but no longer for Amazon
> 
> I picked up a couple more jugs of M1 0w40 for my TSI and then a couple of the Pennzoil 5w30 Euro L for TDIs (note, not vw507 approved, but carries MB-229.51)


Submitted two rebates today, for the Euro 5qt Jugs, so we'll see...


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## surfstar (Mar 13, 2016)

PowerslavePA said:


> Submitted two rebates today, for the Euro 5qt Jugs, so we'll see...


:thumbup:

Mobil comes through on their rebates better than Pennzoil, I've noticed. In past years Pennzoil would reject you for no reason (well their rebate processor would, and the real reason was they make more money by rejecting claims).


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

This thread's OP was if to use 5w-40 or 5w-30 in a 1.8T.

I gave examples of where 5w-40 would be preferred, and gave examples of where 5w-30 would be preferred (over 5w-40)

For guys changing once a year, or who cannot decide, 0w-40 is the ticket. The pendulum has swung toward PZ Ultra being better than M1 for deposit control....something a UOA won't show.

Best advice on this whole thread is to switch to time based intervals instead of miles, and maybe switch viscs for seasons. Select the oil quality that lets you go the anticipated miles in 6 months. Without a turbo, that opens up non-synth oils, and conventional truck oils too. I prefer 2 changes of dino or HM oil in a year than once change of synth. You get a better result, imo. I'm using PZ HiMiles conventional 10w-40 and 5w-30 mixed in my CLK 500....it's fine....everyone else is using M1 0w-40 at 13k miles, I do my oil 2x as often. Place your bets, mine is better.

From the PA guy's long post, we all know those engines can run fine on non-spec, almost any "synth" oil. It seems like you drive lots of miles and have access to professional auto services. Are we supposed to be surprised that you had a good result? That's NOT going to work in all cases for all drive/engine combos. In some cases, you were running newer and better oils than even EXISTED when the engine was designed, the problem arose when you found yourself using an old, almost antiquated, product....Syntec 5w-40. I would use that oil in an Audi V6 N/A or a 4.2. It sure is nothing spectacular in DI engines compared to not-approved oils....










That's where the purpose of these threads comes in, where we can identify the best products or methods for the same cost as others. Chasing spec oil is one thing, and the graph above should be an eye-opener that spec oils isn't the best. But, if we can use specs to help us identify the best products, why not? I'm the first guy to say shoot for the best oil product, not spec oil....I used Rotella 5w-40 and PZ Platinum mixed and it did a GREAT UOA (Audi V6). There's nothing close to a VAG spec on the mix, but it worked great. Not just wear control, but MPG by it's slickness and reduced visc. Deposit control should be no problem either. Now we can get good 0w-40 by the $25 jug, I don't feel the need to mix my own blend.

Plus I got APR stage 1 since this tread started. I want to maintain a solid visc, but need cold flow because of the turbo. My wife's Tig 2.0T is not tuned, she drive is pretty tame and takes short cold trips to work. Her engine is "better" with 5w-30....even if UOA wear was the same as 5w-40. That's a point people were missing, there are other things to consider other than just wear rates, or cost. Slickness and using the thinnest possible visc that produces normal wear is the goal. Rotella and Castrol 5w-40 just isn't the ticket.

So, for me, with my APR mod, it's half PZ Ultra 0w-40 Viper spec and half PZ Ultra 5w-30 for winter, and for summer just 0w-40. I don't make any short trips. If I wasn't modded or I drove short trips, It would be 5w-30 in winter and only half 0w-40 in summer....half 5w-40 would be acceptable too. An enthusiast in really cold climate might want 5w-30 in winter but still need 5w-40 in summer for heavy mods.

So, the 6month seasonal oil change is less about "omg is my oil old and worn out yet?" It's about intentionally changing the fluid to optimise for seasons (if you have them). 5w-40 is 4x as thick in cold as 5w-30, people make a mistake thinking all "5w" oils are the same in cold.....nah. Put a bottle of each in your freezer and try shaking them, see yourself.










Thin 0w-40 like M1 is the same as this thick 0w-30 on this graph


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

In cold, I like to see a 5000cSt floor for starting a turbo, 10,000cSt for starting a NA engine

Look across the graph at your coldest starting temps, see where 5000cSt aligns, and there is your winter oil.

See how 5w-40 is seriously thick? Now try it in your freezer next to any 5w-30.:banghead:


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

T Dog said:


> In cold, I like to see a 5000cSt floor for starting a turbo, 10,000cSt for starting a NA engine
> 
> Look across the graph at your coldest starting temps, see where 5000cSt aligns, and there is your winter oil.
> 
> See how 5w-40 is seriously thick? Now try it in your freezer next to any 5w-30.:banghead:


Seems pretty obvious - if you're in the northeast you can use 0w40 in the winter or just run 5w40 all year round. Either way will be fine but you'll have more options (in terms of brand) with 5w40.


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## surfstar (Mar 13, 2016)

Or buy M1 0w40 for $22.88/5qt, get $12 rebate and be fine. Year round. In any location. Oh and have spent the least amount of $, too.


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

surfstar said:


> Or buy M1 0w40 for $22.88/5qt, get $12 rebate and be fine. Year round. In any location. Oh and have spent the least amount of $, too.



Yup you could do that as well. The 40 weight is the more important number here.


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

An "important number"?

So, a 15w-40 is fine too? I could draw up a graph which might convince you otherwise.

Just to review from a few posts ago, with 5w-40 just below 0f, you have 10,000cSt a THOUSAND TIMES THICKER than operating temp.

or with 5w-30 you can have a little over 2000cSt....four times thinner to lube the turbo and VVT.

Short trip driving, you may never even reach operating temp, and are chugging around with oil 100s of times thicker than ideal.

So, what you think is "important" is to make sure that cold oil is a thick as possible, 1000s of times thicker...?

It's almost like zero info is making it into people's heads. The goal of lube engineering is to keep the cold starts are well lubed as possible...in some people's mind that's a thick as pancake syrup, not like heavy cream. Hmm. This is why 0w-40 oils were developed, because the standard tech of the time only could formulate overly thick 5w-40.

I think some experience, testing and reading for comprehension would benefit some of the proto-experts here.

Also, if "40 is the important number", what about the 100s of new 5w-30 VW 504 spec oils, is just a typo? How about the millions of cars going billions of miles on plain old 5w-30, didn't they get the memo?


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

The statement of "having more brand options in 5w-40" is lost on me. All my store has is Rotella 5w-40, Syntec 5w-40 and WalMart has Delo 5w-40.

If you mean mail-order of Euro brands....which one and why? The store 5w-40 HD are overall better than some random Euro 5w-40.

Do people still think they are getting something special because it has a fancy-boy Euro name? Can someone show me some performance results UOAs that are outstanding? My outstanding UOAs are 5w-30 Edge and 0w-30 Mobil 1, both lower wear than any 5w-40 I've seen. maybe someone can edumacate me on that.

lol guys thinking that all the 100s of "spec" VW oils are somehow special or secret formulas made in a 100 different labs, all tweeked to please VW....hoping to get approved. If you knew how oils get formulated and approved, you would drop that line of thinking.

Here's how to get into the VW oil business (AGAIN). Call up an additive supplier like Lubrizol and order their PRE APPROVED VW 502 spec additive formula. Mix it with the specified base oil, usually from South Korea and bottle it. Be sure to give it a cool name so the fanbois buy it, like "Vortex Tec". You are in the VW oil business with 100s of companies...with one more little step. You have to pay VW a $500,000 3 year licence and you are done. Just market it, promote it and boom....big money yo.

So, when you order Motul, Ravenol, Total, Fuchs etc....just so you know you are getting a run-of-the-mill formula that just barely passes the lame VW 502 spec. Oh, and you're paying double for it. At least look for the products with newer better specs than the 502 "family" inc 501, 505.

Suddenly non-spec oil that has a higher quality formula, like AMSoil or Redline sounds pretty good.

If you want to talk 5w-30, there actually are lots of choices.... but not so many. Castrol, Mobil and Valvoline use a newish "sodium" additive pack. Shell, QS PZ etc use a more conventional high molly type package. I use the Shell formula a lot because I know mixing it is totally fine. Conoco has some excellent products, pretty conventional forumulas in Havoline and Kendall et al.

I already covered most of this info.

If you're gunning for 5w-40 502 oil....it's laughable when better products are on the shelf right next to it. It's like actually choosing the worst product, but because you think it meets some super-high spec and has a fancy name....oye. If you're using 5w-40 in cold temps, that's a joke too, did you even think about it?


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

T Dog said:


> An "important number"?
> 
> So, a 15w-40 is fine too? I could draw up a graph which might convince you otherwise.
> 
> ...


No du mb ass obviously 15w40 is no good - we were intelligently discussing between 0w40 and 5w40. :screwy: 

"Just to review from a few posts ago, with 5w-40 just below 0f, you have 10,000cSt a THOUSAND TIMES THICKER than operating temp." 
*Wrong again - your chart is for Celsius. *

"Also, if "40 is the important number", what about the 100s of new 5w-30 VW 504 spec oils, is just a typo? How about the millions of cars going billions of miles on plain old 5w-30, didn't they get the memo?"
*Again, you're not understanding reading 101. This is a thread for the new 1.8t. 30 weight on these new turbo engines is too thin and IMO isn't good for the longevity of the motor. :thumbup: *


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

T Dog said:


> The statement of "having more brand options in 5w-40" is lost on me. All my store has is Rotella 5w-40, Syntec 5w-40 and WalMart has Delo 5w-40.
> 
> If you mean mail-order of Euro brands....which one and why? The store 5w-40 HD are overall better than some random Euro 5w-40.
> 
> ...



I really think my kindergartner can read and comprehend better than you. "The statement of "having more brand options in 5w-40" is lost on me. All my store has is Rotella 5w-40, Syntec 5w-40 and WalMart has Delo 5w-40." You second sentence proves my point! More options are available. 

"Suddenly non-spec oil that has a higher quality formula, like AMSoil or Redline sounds pretty good."
*I use Amsoil 5w40 and its in spec no problem so I don't know where you think it is "non-spec"*


"If you're using 5w-40 in cold temps, that's a joke too, did you even think about it?"
*Yup, I thought about - understood it and it's fine. Unless you think you're in a zone with an average temperature below -15F*


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

Additionally, look at your chart and what you said T-Dog "In cold, I like to see a 5000cSt floor for starting a turbo, 10,000cSt for starting a NA engine

Look across the graph at your coldest starting temps, see where 5000cSt aligns, and there is your winter oil.
"

Well we know -17.78C is 0 Fahrenheit (doesn't get much colder than that in the northeast - on average). 5000cSt at -17.78C is 5w40! :beer:


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

T-Bone just wants to argue, and he's all over the place with it.

He then posts about the OPs subject matter, yet he went off on a tangent with SPEC oils and penis sizes...
That's what I call a F'ing hypocrite, and that is when I stop listening to people...


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

As good as AMSoil products are, their users generally suffer from some superfail method where they either leave it in forever to justify the cost and "prove" something....or they are draining it at 5000 or 3000 miles, lol....fail both ways.










If the clown section wants to be taken seriously, they'd have already posted some UOAs from their 1.8T TSI.....except they don't have any. If they drum something up, it'll be someone else's 5w-40 with nothing to compare it to.

The blanket statement that 5w-30 is too thin is baseless. First off, for the brain dead, your engine was factory filled with....wait, 5w-30! All of the one hundred 504 spec oils I posted were also 5w-30, in case you missed that.










My own personal TSI UOAs on even thinner ISLAC 0w-30 and 5w-30 show lower wear than I've seen on 5w-40 UOAs, it's that simple. Plus I have APR and use it. Show me ONE PIECE of data to back up your impotent statement "you need 5w-40". There is is right there on the report, 10cSt, lol! NINE cSt and low wear, come on tough guy, you need thick manly oil ha ha!

Just a couple of dumb book ends, mere stereotypes of how not to use available info and some brain power...no, just argue with nothing except your mouth, no data. Zero brain power available.


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

Reporting the cold start visc is just part of the picture in understanding how thinner oil is better. 

There's another reason to use the thinnest lube, it's because of "pumping" losses, parasitic loss that reduces horsepower lost to the extra power needed to circulate the oil. Anyone with lube experience or racing engines knows this. Pumping overly thick oil robs power from the engine and increases friction as well as produces excess heat.

It's pretty clear a 3x split between 5w-30 and 5w-40 at -20C, temps commonly encountered in North America. So, from cold start up to full operating temp, you're pumping oil right down to 50% thicker than necessary, if you with math ability compare 15cSt oil to 10cSt at +100c full op temp. 

LOL, so at what point do you see a benefit to thick oil? When it's 3x thicker, 2x thicker....50% thicker? PLEASE explain what that benefit is....more power? BZZT better mpg? BZZT. lower wear? BZZT. better cold cranking? BZZT. more modern formulations? BZZT. lol, is it bragging rights that your oil has a higher "important number" than your mom's minivan?

I didn't even bother to publish my last UOA anyplace, why not here.

Audi 3.2 DIRECT INJECTION after 8000 miles on homebrew Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 mixed with Rotella 5w-40....










It looks like I nailed my intended visc of 12cSt like a Euro 30. SUPER-low wear on what is arguably a thin oil. I would have no probs running strait 5w-30 with all of it's benefits and retesting, but I traded it, the Q5 for the wife's Tiguan

Too much data, heads are exploding.


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## surfstar (Mar 13, 2016)

In more important news, the Walmart Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5qt jugs are now $22.97 from $25.86. 
I'll be using my Citi Price Rewind to get my $5.78 back.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

surfstar said:


> In more important news, the Walmart Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5qt jugs are now $22.97 from $25.86.
> I'll be using my Citi Price Rewind to get my $5.78 back.


I bought four of the Euro 0W40s, $22.88, and sent in for my two $12.00 rebates. You
should also be able to get those rebates as well. Walmart also has a 30-day price
guarantee. So, if you had bought two for $25.86, and it went down to $22.97 within
that 30 days you also get $2.89 back on each purchase, add that to Citi Rewind and
rebates, you stole that oil, heh heh...

I always keep my Walmart receipts for 30 days...


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

T Dog said:


> I didn't even bother to publish my last UOA anyplace, why not here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





surfstar said:


> In more important news, the Walmart Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5qt jugs are now $22.97 from $25.86


That's the lighter of the two PZ 0w-40, at 13cSt

http://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/produ...m_Euro_SAE_0W-40_Full_Synthetic_Motor_Oil.pdf

The Viper spec 0w-40 is a bit thicker, and is the "Ultra" range product...."Pennzoils Best"

http://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/produ...dd99445c116/Pennzoil-Ultra-Platinum-0W-40.pdf

Specially Formulated for European vehicles

Pennzoil Platinum® Euro Full Synthetic Motor Oil with PurePlus® Technology

Get complete protection from the only motor oil recommended by Ferrari North America,* and Maserati. Pennzoil Platinum® Euro motor oils far exceed the most stringent car manufacturer requirements for cleanliness and protection, based on BMW, Maserati and Ferrari specifications. Pennzoil Platinum® Euro Full Synthetic motor oils can be used for modern light duty diesel engines, as well as high performance gasoline engines. Nothing keeps your engine closer to factory clean1 than Pennzoil Platinum Euro Full Synthetic.

PurePlus® Technology is our patented, revolutionary gas-to-liquid process which converts natural gas into a first-of-its-kind high performance full synthetic base oil. Because our base oil is made from natural gas, it is crystal clear with fewer of the impurities found in crude oil, the start for many other traditional and synthetic motor oils. From that pure, clear base we add our high performance additives to create Pennzoil Platinum® Euro with PurePlus® Technology, motor oil designed for COMPLETE ENGINE PROTECTION, without compromise. BMW recommends Pennzoil PurePlus® Technology. 

How about some 10w-60 as a band-aid for the flawed engine design of your M3?

http://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/produ...550c2dfc1/Pennzoil-Platinum-Racing-10W-60.pdf


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

How about a band-aid on your keyboard....


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

Wake up an sh*tpost? The mark of a loser.

0w-20 in EA888...

http://blog.caranddriver.com/next-a...ne-technology-to-achieve-near-diesel-economy/


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

T Dog said:


> Wake up an sh*tpost? The mark of a loser.
> 
> 0w-20 in EA888...
> 
> http://blog.caranddriver.com/next-a...ne-technology-to-achieve-near-diesel-economy/


Wow, thanks for another irrelevant post :thumbup:


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

You don't know what's relevant because you don't know your as s from a hole in the wall. :laugh:

For every moron who cannot connect the dots, there's dozens of people who are happy to see some good posts.

I thought the OP subject was "oil visc in a EA 888"?

Not "how dumb of a comment can I make from my phone"


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## JohnTrik (Aug 30, 2017)

*I come in Peace*

Read the whole thread. First of all, I just purchased 2017 Golf Alltrack on Wednesday and it is the first time in my car buying life I have ever even considered a VW. Have taken it already to the shore, about 190miles and back and let me tell you, I love the darn thing. I used to do my own oil changes so I came to this thread to answer a question the original poster asked and now I'm thoroughly confused. Read the owners manual, stated 502.00, 503.00, 504.00 synthetic was all allowed. 5W-30 and 5w-40 was recommended. A pamphlet was inside that said use Castrol Edge 5W-30 Professional. I read this thread, head started spinning so I went to the dealer and asked what they used. Valvoline 5W-30 full synthetic was what they told me. I live in the mid atlantic region which can see temps between 20F to 100+F. 
I would like to change my own oil and the manual states every 10,000 miles or once a year whichever comes first. I tend to keep my cars well over 150-200,000 miles except for my last car which I traded in way earlier than I would have liked. I drive less than 10k a year, mostly mixed highway/city commute and with the occasional trip to the shore and the mountains. Eg, this year I drove to Acadia National Park which was about 900 miles.

So which synthetic oil would you recommend? Would 0W-40 still be in compliance of manufacturers recommendations? Should I still do an oil change once a year or maybe twice a year?
Very much appreciated.

JohnTrik


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

T Dog said:


> You don't know what's relevant because you don't know your as s from a hole in the wall. :laugh:
> 
> For every moron who cannot connect the dots, there's dozens of people who are happy to see some good posts.
> 
> ...


Umm, NO: *"1-8T-manual-says-either-5w-30-or-5w-40"* was the SUBJECT.

So, you "thought" wrong; and you used QUOTES, and then put something in between the
quotes that isn't anywhere IN the OPs subject or detail. None of those words you put in
the quotes was said, what are you a fake news reporter? A liberal that likes to make
things up?

Like the other guy said, you didn't read much of it, not if you totally misquoted...

All he wanted to know, safe to use 5W30 or 5W40, and the simple answer is,
BOTH.

English NOT your first language? Or is it just the comprehension part?


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

Pennzoil Platinum / Ultra



















I would use the 0w-40 if concerned about approval specs...

http://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/produ...m_Euro_SAE_0W-40_Full_Synthetic_Motor_Oil.pdf

ACEA A3-10 is the most outstanding spec on the list.

WalMart has 5q 0w-40 jugs now for under $25

However, the 5w-30 is much better in cold than 0w-40. Nothing to be gained with 40 weight....nothing.

Mechanics and dealer techs seem to know the least about oil, excluding someone of the posters here.


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

I replied above, John.

After re-reading your post, 0w-40 seems to suit you. If it was a matter of driving short trips, under 5-10 miles daily, I'd say use the 5w-30.










As I said over and over, 5w-40 is obsolete, so is VW 502 as a performance standard.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

T Dog said:


> I replied above, John.
> 
> After re-reading your post, 0w-40 seems to suit you. If it was a matter of driving short trips, under 5-10 miles daily, I'd say use the 5w-30.
> 
> *As I said over and over, 5w-40 is obsolete, so is VW 502 as a performance standard.*


Yeah, no kidding, you seem to be kicking the $hit out of THAT dead horse all day and all night.

Who cares what you think about the obsolete-ness of a specification, like nothing ever gets
re-formulated? Right, right... They have all been updated, you may want to go back
and read the white-sheets on the oils as the years passed on by, 'cause it passed you
right on by...


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## JohnTrik (Aug 30, 2017)

T Dog said:


> I replied above, John.
> 
> After re-reading your post, 0w-40 seems to suit you. If it was a matter of driving short trips, under 5-10 miles daily, I'd say use the 5w-30.
> 
> ...



T-Dogg thanks for the reply. This would be the first time i will work on a European car, so I have a ways to go before my first oil change. Would you recommend 1 year interval changes or every 6 months. I will never reach 10k per year driving no matter how hard i try  

Penzoil sounds good 0w-40

Thanks 

John


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

We're in the same spot. I can go a year since it's all long trips, maybe 6k max a year...I have 2 other vehicles to drive.

My wife is tricker. She drives short and medium trips every week day, but it only seems to add up to 8k max in a year. 
I took into account her short trips all winter with choosing thin 5w-30 PZ Platinum. Since the oil won't get fully heated during some trips at least it won't be stupidly thick during warm-up. 

But those short trips also tell me to change at 6 months....but no, I don't think so. We can go a full year, with the change right before winter. Oil looses it's cold cranking pretty quickly in service. 

See, the crankcase catches a bunch of condensation and open-loop driving is biased rich, it dumps fuel into the oil, thinning it and contaminating it. Old oil and water plus fuel warmed and mixed, yuk. Normally I say dump that stuff out, but I think the oil and engine combo can handle 8k in a year. 

If someone wants to do 2x a year, one reason be partly for a visc change for the seasons. Normally unnecessary, someone might have unusual mods that dump fuel or drive super-hard on a track etc...ok, do it. 

I was explaining it elsewhere, I have 4+ cars... Buying 10 jugs of oil and 8 filters vs 5 and 4 filters is a big difference. Also I'd feel stupid throwing out a filter with 3-5k on it.

Yes, said it before....if you want to do that 2x a year oil change, just drain and refill the oil, leaving the filter in place. I could explain at length, but that leftover oil and filter is still "good" anyway...certainly no harm in only changing the oil....right? 2.0T top mount filter can unscrew it halfway and hear the oil gurgle out through the engine....it's perfect. Filter specs are for 30,000km / 2yr, so really no sweat there.

The best spec to look for isn't the heavy ACEA A3 spec, but the lighter version "A5" which light 30 weight synths meet. You see it here on PZ Platinum Ultra 5w-30...

http://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/produ...15e88aa7517/Pennzoil-Ultra-Platinum-5W-30.pdf

https://www.lubrizol.com/en/Lubrica...-Oil-Additives/ACEA/Relative-Performance-Tool

It's much ignored because all Euros typically call for A3 5w-40 in USA, only in Europe do you see A5 in use, like Opel/Saab GM for instance. It's simply what we call synth oil, like you'd buy for a Honda or Chevy....Corvette has that stupid "Mobil 1 5w-30 Recommended" emblem. A5 is the performance equivalent of A3 without the additionally thick visc. You rarely see it listed though. It's odd, regular PZ Platinum doesn't list it, but Platinum Ultra does. So maybe the line is inbetween. Most 5w-30 synth list A1, which is a dino oil spec. Mobil 1 Extended....SynPower...these 5w-30 oils are A5 in my book, but it's not considered, no more than A3 is considered for a Rotella 5w-40 label, even though it far exceeds this self-reported spec, you have to infer it.....from those ultra-modern diesel specs....see the Lubrizol liink above.

Remember there are also 5w-30 Euro oils that meet A3 because they are on the heavy end of the 30 range. Not too different than 0w-40, if you see my graphs.

We have those VW 504/507 oils in the market, which claim to be backward-compatible with 502. Well, physical properties may be 502/A3 but they have a low additive chemistry which is ok with clean Euro fuels w/o sulphur and alcohol. Our gas kills VW 504, so skip it. 

A lot of guys run the Castrol 0w-40 with Titanium. "Recommended" for 502 service, etc etc. With the PZ Platinum 0w-40 right next to it on the shelf, I would take the PZ for the GTL base oil, you see the deposit tests above. That's ignoring the venerable Mobil 1 0w-40. You can't go wrong unless you select a 5w-40, and especially if you pay extra for a European name-label and a real 502 Approval....when you are getting less of a product than even Mobil 1 by a LARGE margin. Dealer Syntec 5w-40 is the dregs, maybe ok for a non-turbo V6 over summer. The 0w-40 Titanium with the pretend 502 spec is right next to it....which one? The "real" approved 502 oil is locked into their old standard formula, no newer additives like liquid nano titanium. 

Rereading new stuff at my old oil site, some of the tips I offer here are now pretty well known, like 504 and how obsolete 5w-40 is.


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## Rodinator (Aug 24, 2001)

Hello, I'm late to the party and agree with T dog, data trumps conjecture any day. I think the VW 502 spec and all the other specs are manufactures way of getting money from oil companies. It's just like Fiat Chrysler not specifying Mobil 1 after 2012 because of a spat. All the SRT cars used to spec Mobil 1 then all the sudden Mobil 1 doesn't meet FCA spec's. Yea right.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

Rodinator said:


> Hello, I'm late to the party and agree with T dog, data trumps conjecture any day. I think the VW 502 spec and all the other specs are manufactures way of getting money from oil companies. It's just like Fiat Chrysler not specifying Mobil 1 after 2012 because of a spat. All the SRT cars used to spec Mobil 1 then all the sudden Mobil 1 doesn't meet FCA spec's. Yea right.


I ran Rotella T6 or DElO400 in my former '13 TDI all day... 243,000 miles on it at buy back
and no motor work was ever done, not even the timing or serpentine belts. I got less oil
consumption with the DELO400, so I stuck with that from then on... Delo400? $20.00
at Walmart... I have proven you don't need SPEC oil, which was supposed to be 507.00


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

You do not need spec oil but you certainly would need oil. As long as you do not wear out the oil, you could probably put any normal engine oil and it will work. The advantages of using a synthetic oil is longevity. So if you used the wrong Delo oil but changed it out regularly, there is no surprise that the engine ran fine.

I hope just because you did not replace your timing belt for +240k miles that you would recommend that for anyone. Do as you wish, but I really believe that is a foolish way to save money.


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