# Das Frankenturbo!



## chips4087 (Jun 1, 2009)

Been reading up on this new turbo kit called the frankenturbo, its pretty much a k04 with stronger internals, the kit is $1099 and comes with turbo, manifold, dv, TIP and all necessary equipment to make a direct bolt on install. only thing i would really have to do is put on 4fpr, bigger injectors, and new software. whats every1 think ?http://frankenturbo.com/F4h-t.html


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

why? Just put a real turbo on it.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

Like the Ninja said, get a real turbo, a strong and beefy pea shooter is still a pea shooter.


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

*but.....*

Not every body wants to drop 2500-3000 for a legged monster


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

checkdalevel said:


> Not every body wants to drop 2500-3000 for a legged monster



Where do you buy your turbos?
There are many options will good spool less than $1g


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## J_Bone (Apr 11, 2009)

I will tell you from experience to listen to the guys on here and get a "real" turbo setup. I used to run a GT2X which is basically the same thing your looking at and that turbo stayed in my car all of 4 months before I ordered a larger T3 style turbo and manifold. It had crazy torque, I mean crazy. But it got boring quickly and accelerated like ass @ anything over 50mph. reason being the intake charge pipe was collapsing on itself. The GT2X and K04 mounted in the stock location does not allow for proper turbo inlet pipe. I couldnt even find a shop that would make a pipe, they all said I would be throwing my money away. I ended running it without a pipe what so ever and it still was running out of steam in the upper power band. It was very anti-climatic. You will be way happier with a traditional big turbo setup. Only reason I could see getting one of these is if your K03 is about to give up the ghost and you dont plan on going big turbo and already have a chip+ tune


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## Tacosupreme (Jan 22, 2008)

Can you give a few examples? since the frankenturbo seems like a good route if you don't want to go BT


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

Yeh i want to see some sub 1500 dollar turbo setups. Lets also include the price of fueling.


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## dub101 (Jul 19, 2002)

fwiw... about 6 years ago I put a K04-001 on my GLi. With all the boltons and APR software it put down 199 whp and 279 lbs of torque. It was fun to drive around town but on the highway it was no faster then a chipped 1.8t.
Around the same time I helped a friend install a gt2871r kit with revo software on his 337. Night and day difference. That car put down 298 whp and 327 lbs of torque. 

Moral of this story... Just because it's more "affordable" doesn't mean you will ultimately be satisfied. The problem with the GT2X, Ko4, and now the franken thing, is that they are all designed to use the factory down pipe, manifold and turbo inlet design. That means that if you want to upgrade later on you are buying everything again. Where as if you save for another 6 months or so you could by a garrett based kit which most performance turbos are based on. Then if you want more turbo then it's less of an investment to upgrade. Plus earlier "fueling" was mentioned. If this turbo flows more then a GT2X as they claim then you will need to upgrade injectors and software with the frankenstien too. 
So you can tac on $600-$1000 more on the price. Plus does anyone have a file already maped for this thing???


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## J_Bone (Apr 11, 2009)

dub101 said:


> Moral of this story... Just because it's more "affordable" doesn't mean you will ultimately be satisfied.


Thats exactly right. spend the extra $1000 on a T3 style setup that is upgradable and flexible. If you dont think you will need all the power a T3 will produce, *that is why God invented the boost controller* turn the boost down when you dont need it, turn it up when you do.


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## VDub Dan-O (Mar 24, 2010)

Oh boy, this will get heated up in a hurry.
$1000 is more than pocket change to some of us. Some folks, like myself, just need or want a little extra kick.
I wanted a good stock upgrade, I don't _need_ 400HP, hell yeah it would be fun as hell!!, but why spend the loot and do crap-tons of fabbing (which I am capable if doing) rip into my motor to upgrade the internals just to have the boost turned off.
Not to mention tuning and fueling.

I'm going with a Uni Stg2+ that has been tested and works well with the Frankenturbo.
Bolt up, drop-in tuning and you're done.
There will almost always be better and more expensive, but sometimes you don't always need to pull it out and measure it in front of everyone, sometimes you just want to enjoy what you have and not compare it to others.

Fire away at will, I know 8,000,000 people are stretching out their fingers to blast me back.
I can take it. :laugh:


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## J_Bone (Apr 11, 2009)

Not trying to blast you. I was giving you my opinion based off of my experience with with a similar setup. I had the Uni 440cc file with my GT2X but no MAF cause there was no way to hook it to the turbo. If you go that route please try to make sure you get MAF'less tuning solution or your turbo setup comes with a good turbo air intake solution. 380cc injectors would work better than the 440cc I had. I think the 440's were too much for that turbo. The stock exhaust manifold is too restrictive to get decent top end, you will want to at least get larger port aftermarket stock style manifold. And do not ever use race gas with that turbo. I was told that it would make so much torque you will snap a rod.


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## steve05ram360 (Aug 14, 2006)

another thing not mentioned here in addition to the initial added cost of a BT setup is what comes afterwards... clutch & flywheel... another $500~900 bux depending on the ride.. so what does that add up to??? ~2k for the BT kit, $500~800 for sw & $500~900 for a clutch... totals up to $3000~3700... allot more than a $1100 kit you can bolt in and drive...


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## VDub Dan-O (Mar 24, 2010)

I forgot about the other $$ BT supporting mods.
J_Bone, sound input, thanks. For me, I already grabbed a set of 380's and have a VR6 MAF as well. The kit comes with a TIP and new high flow manifold.

As the saying goes, "Speed costs, How fast can you afford to go?"
That's always been my motto.
I won't not pay the mortgage or my other bills and have my kids go hungry just so I can have a 400HP Beetle I can't drive anywhere. It's what I can afford and want to spend.
(I'm not implying that BT folks neglect their children here)

I never look down on the guy that decided to tear into his motor, build the hell out of it and boost the crap out of it and put down huge numbers, why do they always do that to us?

Last car I had was supercharged and the turbo guys used to do the same thing. "Don't waste your money on a blower, save up the $$ and get a turbo"
I only put down 180 at the wheels, up from 110 stock, and the car was a blast to drive! 
The Frankenturbo upgrade is already going to be a huge improvement from what I had, plus the car is a better car to begin with.


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

I got your frankenturbo right here.........


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## VDub Dan-O (Mar 24, 2010)

Too small


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## steve05ram360 (Aug 14, 2006)

here you go.... check this out. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-1MTr8X_Z0&feature=related


if you want to go fast in a straight line, this is hard to beat....


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

checkdalevel said:


> Not every body wants to drop 2500-3000 for a legged monster


Turbo for turbo the "Frankenturbo" is actually more expensive than a Garrett T-series, sure you need a T3 manifold but it'll bring you up to around 1k mark. Compressor and turbine efficiencies are much higher and you can move more air with less pressure.

I can go on and on if you really want to...


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## VDub Dan-O (Mar 24, 2010)

There are points to both sides of this discussion, and discussion is GOOD!!
Neither is completely 100% right, neither is completely 100$ wrong
:beer:

Remember, for $1100 you get a High temp coated hybrid Turbo, a silicone TIP specially made for the turbo, a new DV and a high flow coated iron exhaust manifold.
All bolt ons, for just a few bucks more than a K03S job would've cost you with all the add-ons that everyone does to their cars.
This swap made the most sense to me, it's not a $1100 turbo, it's an $1100 kit of parts that fit what I needed and wanted.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

VDub Dan-O said:


> There are points to both sides of this discussion, and discussion is GOOD!!
> Neither is completely 100% right, neither is completely 100$ wrong
> :beer:
> 
> ...


That's great if it works for you, most high flow manifolds crack in less than a year when driven daily, but putting that aside, you're still left with a small flange setup (k03/4). I can source that Turbo Inlet Pipe and the manifold for less than $75 plus shipping costs, the manifold does not have Nickel and that's why it is so cheap.

Put all of that aside, you can get a T3/T4 50 trim stage2 wheel for around $600, i can get it for less but let's say $600, get a good T3 manifold for $250 to $300, fab a downpipe, TIP, etc, it'll cost you more than $1100 but you'd be comparing night to day.

Not hating on you, i think that it's good that you're happy with the current setup, but it wouldn't please me.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Anyone want to mention the torque spike that the frankenturbo will produce is more likely to throw a rod then the T series?


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## VDub Dan-O (Mar 24, 2010)

Dub-Nub said:


> Anyone want to mention the torque spike that the frankenturbo will produce is more likely to throw a rod then the T series?


Do tell


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

VDub Dan-O said:


> Do tell


Im not saying it will 100% but its more likely. The dyno below shows how early the torque kicks in. To me its a bit too soon and too much, but to each his own.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Another big turbo guy, another line of baloney about 3K performance. Well, you got it off your chest. Way to be.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

slappy_dunbar said:


> Another big turbo guy, another line of baloney about 3K performance. Well, you got it off your chest. Way to be.


ty 

if you want to get the frankenturbo then more power to you, i have nothing against that turbo and i recommend it to my friends who seeks quick performance. But most everyone knows that once you get more power you will want more and then you will need to upgrade everything again.

If you really dont want more power then get the frankenturbo and be happy :beer:


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## VDub Dan-O (Mar 24, 2010)

I half to chuckle a little here, what if the torque came in late and the dyno sheet showed that?
I want my torque where I'll use it, and not up in the stratosphere revs.
Not all of us live out lives 1/4 mile at a time. 

Killa, do you have any hard evidence of the Frankenturbo manifolds being junk or are you assuming because it's not OEM or a tube T3 manifold (which crack all the time!!) that's it's junk? Again, if my manifold cracks, I'll say something, but as of now: I got nothin'

Again I do sincerely appreciate input and not personal slams. 
Discussion is good!!!

We don't all want $3000 300HP setups, really we don't!


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

VDub Dan-O said:


> I half to chuckle a little here, what if the torque came in late and the dyno sheet showed that?
> I want my torque where I'll use it, and not up in the stratosphere revs.
> Not all of us live out lives 1/4 mile at a time.
> 
> ...


My discussion ends here, you will be happy with the frankenturbo..i hope.

Good info on the turbo http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4576316-FrankenTurbo-F4h-t-hybrid-K04-install


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

VDub Dan-O said:


> Killa, do you have any hard evidence of the Frankenturbo manifolds being junk or are you assuming because it's not OEM or a tube T3 manifold (which crack all the time!!) that's it's junk? Again, if my manifold cracks, I'll say something, but as of now: I got nothin'
> !


I didn't say that Frankenturbo manifolds are junk, just that those "high flow" manifolds crack.

A good high ductile manifold will cost that much more that you won't find it worth making for a regular k03 flange, but if you want to tell me that the manifold is desined in NY by Frankenturbo then i let you beleive that. 

The T3 manifolds that crack have low nickel content, nickel is what makes everything strong and drives the price up.

I had put around 50k miles in my PAG exhaust manifold and it's in perfect condition, this is a real test.


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## VDub Dan-O (Mar 24, 2010)

I never said the FT manifold was better by any means, or that it was made in NY, you're putting words into my mouth.

You were the one that said it would crack and I wanted to be an educated consumer, as do many in the future possibly reading this thread.
You can't throw something out without facts or backing up what you say about the EXACT product you're speaking about. You have your BT parts so you know about those parts, no doubt. 

If you're going to attempt to educate people about how good or bad a product is you HAVE to have experience, or documentation, otherwise it's almost slander when it's a derogatory comment.

I'm not saying they're great or junk because I don't have any facts to base it on. Like I said, if it cracks, this thread will be the third place to hear about it. (Me, then Doug, then here)

Doug, I feel like I'm fighting your battle here, jump in any time man!
:banghead:


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

VDub Dan-O said:


> I never said the FT manifold was better by any means, or that it was made in NY, you're putting words into my mouth.
> 
> You were the one that said it would crack and I wanted to be an educated consumer, as do many in the future possibly reading this thread.
> You can't throw something out without facts or backing up what you say about the EXACT product you're speaking about. You have your BT parts so you know about those parts, no doubt.
> ...


I'm not attacking you but a good manifold won't cost peanuts and won't be included as a part of any package for $1100, the ATP and 034 manifolds have cracked, these won't be different if driven the same way.

Hope this helps


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## VDub Dan-O (Mar 24, 2010)

killa said:


> Hope this helps


A little.
Sarcasm and BT vote duly noted


I wonder how many failures were due to incorrect installation or product failure?
Are you saying all the manifolds sold eventually cracked?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

I dont think the frankenturbo has been out long enough for people to properly test it...especially manifold cracks, so its almost impossible to say that it will crack at one point, all we can do it wait for more and more purchases and feedback regarding them.


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## VDub Dan-O (Mar 24, 2010)

agreed!


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

VDub Dan-O said:


> A little.
> Sarcasm and BT vote duly noted
> 
> 
> ...


It's almost impossible to install a manifold the wrong way. No Sarcasm here now, little turbos can be fun too but i'd rather go with a GT28RS or so.
Let's be honest here, you have to put everyday miles in a kit in order to see how it reacts to the daily grind, stop and go traffic, etc.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

For those of you who are interested, this is an informative article on the characteristics and application of high silicon molybdenum ductile iron (AKA SiMo). You will note that it has been in use with turbocharged engines for decades. However, rated at ~880 temperature limit, it is best to provide an additional thermal barrier, such as a ceramic coating, to provide longevity in a "chipped" 1.8T duty environment which can exceed 950˚c.


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## EuroTrashin (Jan 22, 2008)

Make sure to get a cam upgrade too.








Especially when you use something this big.


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## VDub Dan-O (Mar 24, 2010)

That's quite a stroker kit!!

killa, by improper install, I mean over or under torquing, or improper sequence.
You'd be surprised how many things can get ruined by improper torque; rotors, heads, manifolds (intake and exhaust), wheel bearings.
I've been in the business a long time and have seen it all. I've un-torqued little car wheels that were twisted up to 180lb/ft with brake pulsations that would knock your teeth loose!
Plus, isn't the revised FT manifold slotted to allow some expansion, along with the coating?


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

VDub Dan-O said:


> That's quite a stroker kit!!
> 
> killa, by improper install, I mean over or under torquing, or improper sequence.
> You'd be surprised how many things can get ruined by improper torque; rotors, heads, manifolds (intake and exhaust), wheel bearings.
> ...


No way man, i do analyses for Elring Klinger, Dana, Mahle gasket, Bocar, etc and you would have to be a complete moron not to torque things at least somewhat equal, the pressure in between the two surfaces would have to be wayyyy off for something like that to happen.
I can show you reports


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## VDub Dan-O (Mar 24, 2010)

killa said:


> I can show you reports


After 20 years in the business, I'm now a teacher at a college and I could show you kids that try to put a steel wheel on backwards after they just took it off.
I believe anything is possible.
:laugh:


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

VDub Dan-O said:


> After 20 years in the business, I'm now a teacher at a college and I could show you kids that try to put a steel wheel on backwards after they just took it off.
> I believe anything is possible.
> :laugh:


I've seen plenty of idiots but not to the point that point.
If you want to see some of these reports just hit me up on tuesday, i think you'll like this stuff, pretty neat.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

killa said:


> Let's be honest here, you have to put everyday miles in a kit in order to see how it reacts to the daily grind, stop and go traffic, etc.


....probably one of the highest factors for manifold longevity is thermal stress and heat cycles. 
Actual market history is the best/most reliable data. Lab tests can sometimes be too much or too little, and sometimes not possible to adequately duplicate.... this bears the challenge for your OEM's

It is possible to over tighten manifolds, can be a cause of possible failure. Also, sometimes turbo's hit the fire wall on extreme engine movement, this too is some people's problems.

Iron and manufacturing can get very compicated, as that articale above can give some information, of course it gets much deeper than that. Normally people associate "iron" as being weak, inferior to steel, but of course some of us know that's not true. Ductile iron can certainly be stronger than steels, and can have better strength/weight. That is why iron is most commonly used for OEM applications. Many of your suspension components are ductile iron. Most of the time this is what your knuckle/spindles are made of, I bet 99% of ppl believe they are steel, they would be mistaken. Keep in mind steels are used to make irons (receycled), as well as many other materials like tin, nickel, and copper....they also use selective additives and specific incolucation to get the materials they like, as well as the melting temps and rates..... its the material's structure what makes it important, thats why its anaylized under microscopes and x-rays and wierd stuff like that.

The best irons to use on exhaust mani's are the same used for the turbo's exh. housing, and many times that is true, or often have similar properties. I wonder how I got off on this tangent:screwy:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

speaking of tangents, what is this amazing piece of hardware and where do I go to see it getting made?


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

The main reason 1.8t exhaust manifolds crack more is because of the chip tuning and running high boost and zero timing. This leads to stupid high EGTs and tons of thermal problems on the exhaust side.

And aslo. The main reason for these conditions is the choice of turbo itself. The larger the turbo you run the less boost,more timing it takes to make power. This all leads to lower EGTs. And no the GT28rs is not a big turbo.


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## Low: i has it? (Dec 16, 2009)

If i buy this turbo am i able to use Revo? i have it now and would rather pay for an upgrade, instead of purchasing from another company.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

20ae3294 said:


> If i buy this turbo am i able to use Revo? i have it now and would rather pay for an upgrade, instead of purchasing from another company.


Ask [email protected] about their Stage 3 for K04. It's a 380cc file for 3" MAF. :thumbup:


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## VDub Dan-O (Mar 24, 2010)

Say Doug,
My N75 is crapping out.
What's a good version to get that will work with the Unitronic stage 2+ file?
More to the point, what are you running?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Stock, OEM N75 valve. No "race valves" or other. They're nothing but headaches.


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