# How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle?



## WRJetta (Apr 13, 2004)

I've been in contact with chris from C2 motorsports and am really interested in his fueling kits. Someone told me that i can run ARP head bolts and the 8.5:1 head spacer and push 17 psi. My only question is can the bottom end handle this much boost?


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (WRJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WRJetta* »_I've been in contact with chris from C2 motorsports and am really interested in his fueling kits. Someone told me that i can run ARP head bolts and the 8.5:1 head spacer and push 17 psi. My only question is can the bottom end handle this much boost?

ohhhh yeah.. Stock bottom end is good for around 500whp!







You don't have anything to worry about.. There are a ton of people on this board running the kit you talk about (myself included) without any problems.. Do it!


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## WRJetta (Apr 13, 2004)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (MunKyBoy)*

Aight, i just wanted a second or third opinion on this. I have my peloquin, stage 3 clutch, and lightened flywheel ready to handle this boost. Anyone have a dyno sheet for that setup? I'm lookin to run C2's setup, 440 cc injectors, and run about 15 psi.


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (WRJetta)*









Honestly though, if your going to run that much boost into a VR your should really do a motor build-up. Pistons and Rods are a must IMO after 10psi.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_ 
Honestly though, if your going to run that much boost into a VR your should really do a motor build-up. Pistons and Rods are a must IMO after 10psi.


Stick to superchargers. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## A2 VR666 (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

Stick to superchargers. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


roflllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll








i've seen stock blocks handle 20 psi and then daily driven... come on man 10 psi is for lil kids still wet in the pants


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## 20psirabbit (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (A2 VR666)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A2 VR666* »_ come on man 10 psi is for lil kids still wet in the pants

i've only got 6 psi


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## BubonicCorrado (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

Stick to superchargers. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Owninated


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## Mike GP (Jun 13, 2003)

I'm running 7.5:1 CR and 100% std motor. ru up to 25 psi boost, no problems so far


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (A2 VR666)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A2 VR666* »_

roflllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll








i've seen stock blocks handle 20 psi and then daily driven... come on man 10 psi is for lil kids still wet in the pants










Doing 1 pull @ 20psi before she blows don't count eh









_Modified by JETTSET at 7:54 AM 9-10-2004_


_Modified by JETTSET at 7:55 AM 9-10-2004_


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

Stick to superchargers. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_ Doing 1 pull @ 20psi before she blows don't count eh










I think Flekz is talking about a particular motor that's seen MANY 1/4mi passes at that boost. Heck that same stock block made it into a few different cars.
Don't hate when you don't know what you're talking about.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (WRJetta)*

Stick to the stock bottom end, rebuilding with forged when you don't need it is just more expense and asking for trouble. The stock bottom end will handle more than 500 hp, I would be more worried about your tranny at that point. 
Ask any of the GTR guys what a stock bottom end will handle and how troublesome a rebuilt bottom end can be. Brian was making 516 whp on a stock bottom end for awhile, not just a few passes. 
Having an engine rebuilt as tightly as factory is very hard to do and very expensive to have done, A lot can go wrong at that point leaving you with a very expensive useless engine. if the rebuild does go smooth then you need to properly break it in to ensure its longevity and theres still no guarantee it won't eat lots of oil.
42# injectors should be good for 389 hp at an 85% duty cycle, which should be fine on a stock block.


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## J Dubya (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (all-starr-me)*

Even if a stock botton end only lasts a few years and many passes it's still a hell of a lot cheaper just just find another stock short/long block than it is build a motor (that may only last a year or two anyway).
Stick to superchargers if you don't really want to go that fast.


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## Hessvr6 (Jan 21, 2003)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (J Dubya)*

Yes, I watched Brian K do about 50 pulls on the dyno at 25-30 lbs of boost with no problems....not counting the endless times the car went down the track...stock bottom can hold the boost....


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## A2 VR666 (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_ 









Doing 1 pull @ 20psi before she blows don't count eh









_Modified by JETTSET at 7:54 AM 9-10-2004_

_Modified by JETTSET at 7:55 AM 9-10-2004_


lol rookies dont know... well if u woulda been to etown past couple of years u woulda seen some fast vr's on stock blocks... dont know how u cananda guys do it... buildling blocks for 10 psi.. lol what a waste of money


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## BubonicCorrado (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (A2 VR666)*

The stock bottom end can handle pretty much whatever you can throw at it with the addition of ARP rod bolts, head-studs, and main bolts. The secret is all in the tuning. I haven't done it yet personally. But I can't afford to break trannys and half-shafts right now


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## Blak Golf (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (A2 VR666)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A2 VR666* »_

dont know how u cananda guys do it... buildling blocks for 10 psi.. lol what a waste of money


dont generalise not all canadians are that stupid, he must be from ottawa or something


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (BubonicCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BubonicCorrado* »_The stock bottom end can handle pretty much whatever you can throw at it with the addition of ARP rod bolts, head-studs, and main bolts. The secret is all in the tuning. I haven't done it yet personally. But I can't afford to break trannys and half-shafts right now

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

you guys are all silly anyways... "psi" of boost doesn't mean ****, its all about the horsepower / torque your making... 
if you put a gt42 on there, the "psi" of boost it could take before it blew up would be a lot different then with a cheesy little t04 h-3 or something.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_there is not way in hell that a stock bottom end that say has a GT40 or something comparable running 25 psi will last any great length of time.

Wasn't Brian running a T70 and then a GT40 (or 42? can't remember) and a STOCK block for quite some time? Didn't that same block end up in Steve's car with a T72 on it when it failed to blow up in Brian's car? Didn't Steve's car run 10's and Brian's run 9s? Or did I imagine again?








Sure you can build the motor to take the power, but why bother when it can take an insane amount right out of the box.


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## rt30000 (Jan 17, 2002)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Just because you have 4000 posts doesn't make you an expert. All that indicates is that you are a keyboard warrior with too much time on his hands.

HAHA! That's funny! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

"Well as a matter of fact I do know what I am talking about and have seen enough boosted VR's bite the dust to know better. Just because you have 4000 posts doesn't make you an expert. All that indicates is that you are a keyboard warrior with too much time on his hands." 
yes, keep running 30 degrees of timing on pump gas... 
as far as i see it, theres no excuse for blowing up a stock vr6 block at less then 300whp... that = 100% operator error.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (xtremeg60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xtremeg60* »_
But seriously gentlemen... *Jettset* is a true baller. Around these parts, he owns da streets! Even my tricked out grocery kart can't touch him.
Anyhow, this boy sure knows what he's talkin' bout. He even won first place at this year's *Waterfest*.
Don't hate, congratulate.









Sarcasm noted.


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## Blak Golf (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Well as a matter of fact I do know what I am talking about and have seen enough boosted VR's bite the dust to know better. Just because you have 4000 posts doesn't make you an expert. All that indicates is that you are a keyboard warrior with too much time on his hands.

_Modified by JETTSET at 2:01 AM 9-22-2004_

ur not all there in the head i think.


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Well as a matter of fact I do know what I am talking about and have seen enough boosted VR's bite the dust to know better. Just because you have 4000 posts doesn't make you an expert. All that indicates is that you are a keyboard warrior with too much time on his hands.
I was under the assumption that he meant "stock" engine. which would mean stock compression ratio. I will agree that with proper tuning 15psi or even a bit more with head-gasket and head-studs is fine. And of course proper tuning. Of course this greatly depends on the size of the turbo or blower in question and what it's flow characteristics are.
If you want to do something right the first time and are not drawing on the welfare rolls or like to scavenge junkyards, then if one is going to make big power from big boost then the proper thing to do is *BUILD THE ENGINE TO TAKE THE POWER*. If buddy is running 25psi on a stock bottom end then he must be using a pee-shooter of a turbo because there is not way in hell that a stock bottom end that say has a GT40 or something comparable running 25 psi will last any great length of time.

_Modified by JETTSET at 2:01 AM 9-22-2004_

You dont know what youre talking about. You just seem to know a lot of people who had poorly tuned vr6's, and blew them up because of this. Im still on my first motor since going boosted, granted it has forged slugs, it still has stock rods, and stock everything alse. It has made numerous 500+whp dyno pulls and i beat the hell out of it. As for stock blocks, i personally witnessed a stock block with a GT40 (Brian's car) in the high 20's psi make over 500 whp. Stock block with a spacer to lower compression. Anyone who turbos a vr6 and doesnt lower the compression is just asking for trouble. 
As for the stupid 4000 post comment. You're a fool, i hand built my vr6, fabricated a lot of parts of, tuned it myself to the tune of 577whp. So, do i not know what i am talking about? How's that for a keyboard warrior? What xactly have YOU accomplished to think you can talk to me like this? Youre small beans bro.










_Modified by nycvr6 at 1:07 PM 9-22-2004_


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (nycvr6)*

*nycvr6* I would love to get into a battle of wits with you however I never attack an unarmed man.








Now lets stop with the personal attacks and get this thread back on topic.







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

LOL what the **** is that supposed to mean? 
unarmed? he's armed with pictures and timeslips, which, in my book is about as "armed" as you can be when it comes to internet bull****ing.


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## Vr6Fidelity (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

NYCVR6 Should be considered a god of vr's. Not only will his personally built VR hand you your ass on any dyno or the street, but he is CONSTANTLY on the vortex helping out other people with excellent technical information. AND he does so in a polite humble manor. Never ever does he point out his accomplishments without being attacked unprovoked. BRAVO nyc.


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (Vr6Fidelity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vr6Fidelity* »_NYCVR6 Should be considered a god of vr's. Not only will his personally built VR hand you your ass on any dyno or the street, but he is CONSTANTLY on the vortex helping out other people with excellent technical information. AND he does so in a polite humble manor. Never ever does he point out his accomplishments without being attacked unprovoked. BRAVO nyc.









Well I didn't provoke him and it's him and his turbo guru buddies who were jumping on the SC hate bandwagon.
I'm glad for him that he builds fast VR's. I have my opinion he has his. Starting a flame war and throwing insults does not solve anything.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

with all due respect, your opionion is wrong. 
If you tune them correctly you will not have a problem at any realistic hp, especially on a supercharger setup.


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

At what point (if any) do you think rods and pistons are required?
I would agree that a large turbo motor would require them before an SC equipped engine. But surely at some point you would agree that building the bottom end is a necessity for longevity.


_Modified by JETTSET at 5:56 PM 9-22-2004_


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_At what point (if any) do you think rods and pistons are required?

Pistons should be used in any application exceeding 350ish whp in my opinion, just to be safe. Rods on the other hand i dont feel are needed until youre up in the 500whp range. I would put ARP rod and main bolts on any boosted setup.


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: (Vr6Fidelity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vr6Fidelity* »_NYCVR6 Should be considered a god of vr's. Not only will his personally built VR hand you your ass on any dyno or the street, but he is CONSTANTLY on the vortex helping out other people with excellent technical information. AND he does so in a polite humble manor. Never ever does he point out his accomplishments without being attacked unprovoked. BRAVO nyc.









Thanks bro, i appreciate the words. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Starting a flame war and throwing insults does not solve anything.

Really. Hm.


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## Blak Golf (Sep 10, 2003)

sorry i had to this guy is just to dumb, heres what his local friends think of him
http://www.ottawa-vdubbing.com...=9613


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (Blak Golf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blak Golf* »_sorry i had to this guy is just to dumb, heres what his local friends think of him
http://www.ottawa-vdubbing.com...=9613

Really. Well first of all they are not my friends, infact they are the enemy. Most of the people on OVD (not all) are nothing but a bunch of junk-yard scavengers or cheap ass cry babies.


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## BubonicCorrado (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Really. Well first of all they are not my friends, infact they are the enemy. Most of the people on OVD (not all) are nothing but a bunch of junk-yard scavengers or cheap ass cry babies. 


*sniff* *sniff* *CRY* *sniff* *sniff*
Don't be mad at other people because your car is slow... You don't know anything about it, and you paid way too much money for an overpriced\underpowered supercharger kit. 
You paid $6400 (ballpark) for a kit that gets you 260WHP... in a useable powerband of 1000 RPM. Everything below 5000 RPM is a joke. 
You have shody at best engine mangment, an inefficient form of forced induction, and you're trying to tell me, and the rest of the vortex... people making double, some even triple the horsepower figures as you that they don't know what they're talking about. I mean seriously who spends damn near 7 grand on their car and has less than 300 wheel hp's, and a tourqe curve that's laughable at best.
When it all comes down to it. There are plenty of people on these boards making INSANE amounts of horsepower on a stock block. 
Brian, with Schimmell for instance was running 10 second QM passes on a stock block
And only upgraded to break into the 9's
I'm going to give you a bit of advice, and I hope you take it. Because when I was starting to figure this whole thing out, I talked twice as much as I listened, and the only thing it got me was two burned pistons. Second time around, I took the free advice I was given, and things are working out ok... I still have a few issues, but what do you expect when you're running an engine managment system on a car it's never been run in before, on a motor that it's never been run on before. Oh well... Good luck to you... and listen when nyc, or cabzilla, or any of the guys who are making big power speak up... They know what they're talking about, and if you don't piss them off, they'll help you as much as you need it when you decide to ditch that supercharger setup and bust out with the turdbo


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (BubonicCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BubonicCorrado* »_
*sniff* *sniff* *CRY* *sniff* *sniff*
Don't be mad at other people because your car is slow... You don't know anything about it, and you paid way too much money for an overpriced\underpowered supercharger kit.

Ah, yes, here we go. This is the root of the hate right here. The turbo Gods of the tex know more than anybody and what they say is law. I find it very disturbing how much you turbo guys hate superchargers. Is it because they are more reliable than you? Or perhaps because all the supercharged equipped dubs in your neighborhood are doing flyby's on you while your wrenchin your turbo motor in the driveway.

_Quote »_You paid $6400 (ballpark) for a kit that gets you 260WHP... 

Yes I did, and I enjoyed it so much I spent another G note and now have about 285whp. *RELIABLE* horsepower that is http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote »_in a usable power band of 1000 RPM

That is incorrect. Usable power band is about 2k just about as much as the revs drop between shifts. No boost lag either









_Quote »_. Everything below 5000 RPM is a joke.

I wouldn't say its a joke, however it's the nature of the beast.

_Quote »_You have shoddy at best engine management,

This statement is where you really loose me. So what your saying is that Garrett (GIAC) one of the oldest and most respected tuners in the industry is "shoddy".







Your really ignorant









_Quote »_and you're trying to tell me, and the rest of the vortex... people making double, some even triple the horsepower figures as you that they don't know what they're talking about.

I never said that they don't know what they are talking about. I simply stated my opinion and got flamed for it by usual suspects. In other words "turbo owners". Some of whom certainly know what they are talking about but unfortunately their ego's are far too overbearing










_Quote »_I mean seriously who spends damn near 7 grand on their car and has less than 300 wheel hp's, and a torque curve that's laughable at best.

Someone who wants reliable HP and quality craftsmanship.

_Quote »_When it all comes down to it. There are plenty of people on these boards making INSANE amounts of horsepower on a stock block.

Yes there are, mad props to them http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









_Quote »_I'm going to give you a bit of advice, and I hope you take it.

I will certainly not take advise from the likes of you.

_Quote »_Because when I was starting to figure this whole thing out, I talked twice as much as I listened, and the only thing it got me was two burned pistons.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, I wonder why









_Quote »_ I still have a few issues,but what do you expect when you're running an engine management system on a car it's never been run in before, on a motor that it's never been run on before.

This is exactly why I bought a blower. I didn't want these "*ISSUES*

_Quote »_ and listen when nyc, or cabzilla, or any of the guys who are making big power speak up... 

So in other words listen to the "turbo" guru's, they know all







We supercharger owners are dirt









_Quote »_They know what they're talking about, and if you don't piss them off, they'll help you as much as you need it when you decide to ditch that supercharger setup and bust out with the turbo

I am sure they have allot of experience building crazy turbo set-ups that's great. I am sure they are more than helpful to others http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif However just because one owns a supercharger does not make them any less of a human being or dub enthusiast.

The problem I see, and I am sure many others do, with this category of *Forced Induction* is that if you don't tow the line of the "big turbo" boyz then your nothing







This is pretty sad if you ask me


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## BubonicCorrado (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Ah, yes, here we go. This is the root of the hate right here. The turbo Gods of the tex know more than anybody and what they say is law. I find it very disturbing how much you turbo guys hate superchargers. Is it because they are more reliable than you? Or perhaps because all the supercharged equipped dubs in your neighborhood are doing flyby's on you while your wrenchin your turbo motor in the driveway.

No... It's because we hate to see people spend soooooooo much money on a supercharger kit, and get 220-285 wheel horsepower... 
I find it disturbing that you're telling me my car isn't reliable, with the exception of the last 2 days ( a 30 dollar sensor went bad) my car has had absolutley zero issues, starts runs and drives just fine. And Cabzilla another local, just swapped out his first engine with 130,000 miles of boost









_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Yes I did, and I enjoyed it so much I spent another G note and now have about 285whp. *RELIABLE* horsepower that is http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Dude... don't be proud of that... It's more than my whole setup cost, including the tranny, the diff, the standalone, the turbokit, the custom intercooler, and spare block I have sitting in my basement

_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
That is incorrect. Usable power band is about 2k just about as much as the revs drop between shifts. No boost lag either









What's boost lag??? I have full boost by 2500RPM... I have a usable power band of 4500 RPM
You have more lag than I do, you don't hit full boost untill about 5000-5500

_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
This statement is where you really loose me. So what your saying is that Garrett (GIAC) one of the oldest and most respected tuners in the industry is "shoddy".







Your really ignorant









I have run GIAC chips... they kinda work... however, factory enginemanagment is crap, you will understand later

_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Some of whom certainly know what they are talking about but *unfortunately their ego's are far too overbearing *









Pot... Kettle

_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Someone who wants reliable HP and quality craftsmanship.


I have all of the above... and my belt doesn't slip... and my waterpumps don't die when I try and correct it, my tranny is bullet proof up to 400whp, my clutch is good to 450lbs of tourqe, I have over 300whp, and over 300lbs of tourqe... and aside from just general issues... like a sensor going bad (when you have a 13 year old car it tends to happen) my car is tottaly reliable at this point

_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
I will certainly not take advise from the likes of you.


I'm sorry... well at least listen to the other people on this forum putting down some numbers


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, I wonder why










The only reason why, is because I messed up my standalone install, I tried to install the magnets myself in the crank trigger, and ended up installing one about 12 degrees off








So now instead of advancing the timing 17 degrees in all six cylinders, 1 and 6 were getting 29 degrees total timing... KAPLOW!!!
It was not the turbos fault or the standalones fault, I should have sent the crank trigger to a machine shop the first time... now all is fixed

_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
This is exactly why I bought a blower. I didn't want these "*ISSUES*


Is belt slip not an issue??? Is bucking at part throttle boost not an issue??? Is killing waterpumps not an issue???
My only issue so far is a bad sensor, and a botched standalone install that I screwed up... other than that, this thing has been a champ

_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
So in other words listen to the "turbo" guru's, they know all







We supercharger owners are dirt









Not dirt... just slow, and broke









_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
I am sure they have allot of experience building crazy turbo set-ups that's great. I am sure they are more than helpful to others http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif However just because one owns a supercharger does not make them any less of a human being or dub enthusiast.

We're not saying you are less of a human being, just that you made the wrong choice. You could be just as reliable with a lot more power, for a lot less money... that's all

_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
The problem I see, and I am sure many others do, with this category of *Forced Induction* is that if you don't tow the line of the "big turbo" boyz then your nothing







This is pretty sad if you ask me










If you're not making power... then you're nothing. Regardless of supercharger or turbo... It's cool that you actually did something to your car, it's just not what I would consider a great $ to HP factor


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## TAI-VW boosted Dubs (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: (BubonicCorrado)*

Turbo>Supercharger,nuff said!


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## BubonicCorrado (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (TAI-VW boosted Dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAI-VW boosted Dubs* »_Turbo>Supercharger,nuff said!









Word... The only reason you don't see them in NHRA is because they're banned... They're too effiecient


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (BubonicCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BubonicCorrado* »_
No... It's because we hate to see people spend soooooooo much money on a supercharger kit, and get 220-285 wheel horsepower... 
I find it disturbing that you're telling me my car isn't reliable, with the exception of the last 2 days ( a 30 dollar sensor went bad) my car has had absolutley zero issues, starts runs and drives just fine. And Cabzilla another local, just swapped out his first engine with 130,000 miles of boost









That's nice. I am happy for you.

_Quote, originally posted by *BubonicCorrado* »_What's boost lag??? I have full boost by 2500RPM... I have a usable power band of 4500 RPM

You must be running a very small turbo to get full boost at only 2500RPM.

_Quote, originally posted by *BubonicCorrado* »_ I have run GIAC chips... they kinda work... however, factory enginemanagment is crap, you will understand later

I can assure you that I quite understand the limitations of factory management. However if you want consistent operation in all temperature ranges and be able to pass emissions testing then OEM management is preferable.

_Quote, originally posted by *BubonicCorrado* »_I have all of the above... and my belt doesn't slip... and my water-pumps don't die when I try and correct it, my tranny is bullet proof up to 400whp, my clutch is good to 450lbs of tourqe.

Well at least we have something in common here. My belt does not slip and my water-pump doesn't die and my tranny is bulletproof as well.









_Quote, originally posted by *BubonicCorrado* »_I'm sorry... well at least listen to the other people on this forum putting down some numbers

I always do, however you have to admit you that you have to takes everything you read on the web with a grain of salt.










_Quote, originally posted by *BubonicCorrado* »_The only reason why, is because I messed up my standalone install, I tried to install the magnets myself in the crank trigger, and ended up installing one about 12 degrees off








So now instead of advancing the timing 17 degrees in all six cylinders, 1 and 6 were getting 29 degrees total timing... KAPLOW!!!
It was not the turbos fault or the standalones fault, I should have sent the crank trigger to a machine shop the first time... now all is fixed

Oh well, live and learn. At least you know better for next time.

_Quote, originally posted by *BubonicCorrado* »_Is belt slip not an issue??? Is bucking at part throttle boost not an issue??? Is killing water-pumps not an issue???

*NO, NO and NO*









_Quote, originally posted by *BubonicCorrado* »_Not dirt... just slow, and broke









Slow, in who's eyes? Yours maybe and the turbo boyz but at this current juncture in my cars life breaking the sound barrier is not a priority. I can assure you that my car has quite a collection of doors.
As to the broke comment, my financial situation is none of your concern. Suffice to say that I am far from being broke









_Quote, originally posted by *BubonicCorrado* »_We're not saying you are less of a human being, just that you made the wrong choice. You could be just as reliable with a lot more power, for a lot less money... that's all

The wrong choice in your eyes and that of all turbo people. This rivalry is old and beat to death.

_Quote, originally posted by *BubonicCorrado* »_If you're not making power... then you're nothing. Regardless of supercharger or turbo... It's cool that you actually did something to your car, it's just not what I would consider a great $ to HP factor

Well to each their own.For now I plan on exploiting the blower to its full potential. I know that eventually I will have a turbo set-up of some description in the future, probably two of them


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## BubonicCorrado (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
You must be running a very small turbo to get full boost at only 2500RPM.


Small by some of these guys standards... however, it's just tuned well so the turbo spools fast, when I was running chips and an SAFC I wouldn't fully spool untill about 3200-3500 RPM

_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
I can assure you that I quite understand the limitations of factory management. However if you want consistent operation in all temperature ranges and be able to pass emissions testing then OEM management is preferable.

I live in Commie-fornia, so any modification outside of stock and I don't pass the visual inspection, so hey, as long as I am going to be paying a **** load for a "smog check" might as well go balls out


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Well at least we have something in common here. My belt does not slip and my water-pump doesn't die and my tranny is bulletproof as well.









Slippage... Trust me it does, unless you are running a cogged setup, the belt slips
Water-pump not dead... It will be soon within the next 10,000 miles

_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
*NO, NO and NO*










not yet, not yet, not yet

_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Slow, in who's eyes? Yours maybe and the turbo boyz but at this current juncture in my cars life breaking the sound barrier is not a priority. I can assure you that my car has quite a collection of doors.
As to the broke comment, my financial situation is none of your concern. Suffice to say that I am far from being broke









The broke part was supposed to be a joke

_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
The wrong choice in your eyes and that of all turbo people. This rivalry is old and beat to death.

Not a rivalry, just guidance in the right direction... you said it yourself at the end of the post, you'll be turbo one day... 

_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Well to each their own.For now I plan on exploiting the blower to its full potential. I know that eventually I will have a turbo set-up of some description in the future, probably two of them









Don't bother... get something rear wheel drive... Then turbo the shiat out of that


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_ Or perhaps because all the supercharged equipped dubs in your neighborhood are doing flyby's on you while your wrenchin your turbo motor in the driveway.


Now that's funny. Even the all motor cats are quicker then most of the SC guys round these parts.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

haha, for 100hp u should have saved 5500 dollars and just sprayed it. 
i don't like chargers because the powerband sucks and they have a whole host of belt problems.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (JETTSET)*

Just a few points. 

There is no comparison between a blower and a turbo on a vr if you want to go fast. I had a blower for three years. 
You are a rabid SC nutswinger.
I haven't performed ONE non-factory maintenance procedure on my car in two years with a turbo kit. Change the oil, drive it. Repeat. 
You paid $7500 for a 2k rpm powerband that doesn't really have any power. Do you happen to like Bose as well?
You don't have the first clue as to what you are talking about regarding the vr and boost limits. 
You're whipping out the "future mod" card. Please. I'll have a quad turbo twin-engined Diablo running 85psi on the stock blocks fueled by crisco once I win the lottery eleven times and pigs fly.








Your transmission is NOT bulletproof.


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## Mr Black (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: (nycvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nycvr6* »_
Pistons should be used in any application exceeding 350ish whp in my opinion, just to be safe. Rods on the other hand i dont feel are needed until youre up in the 500whp range. I would put ARP rod and main bolts on any boosted setup. 

I see a bit of contradiction here.......all the turbo guys are chiming in saying "oh, you don't need a BUILT motor for 10 psi" or under 350 whp or whatever, yet it seems most of them agree that stacked gaskets, forged pistons, and ARP bolts are necessary. What else is there in a "built" bottom end? 
Sounds like most people are actually endorsing the safety margin that Jettset is advocating. Or am I missing something?


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: (Mr Black)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr Black* »_
I see a bit of contradiction here.......all the turbo guys are chiming in saying "oh, you don't need a BUILT motor for 10 psi" or under 350 whp or whatever, yet it seems most of them agree that stacked gaskets, forged pistons, and ARP bolts are necessary. What else is there in a "built" bottom end? 
Sounds like most people are actually endorsing the safety margin that Jettset is advocating. Or am I missing something? 

I never said forged pistons were required for 10 psi or under 350, so dont misquote me. By no means is a head spacer and arp hardware constitute a built motor. A built motor would have low compression forged pistons and aftermarket rods. For the power levels on hand, a head spacer and aftermarket hardware will work fine. Does that clear things up?


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (nycvr6)*

East coast RULES.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Jeffrey Atwood


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## Blak Golf (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: (Mr Black)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr Black* »_
I see a bit of contradiction here.......all the turbo guys are chiming in saying "oh, you don't need a BUILT motor for 10 psi" or under 350 whp or whatever, yet it seems most of them agree that *stacked gaskets, forged pistons, *and ARP bolts are necessary. What else is there in a "built" bottom end? 
Sounds like most people are actually endorsing the safety margin that Jettset is advocating. Or am I missing something? 

man u people will never quit. at least ur intertaining and u make everyone here feal smarter keep it up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_
as far as i see it, theres no excuse for blowing up a stock vr6 block at less then 300whp... that = 100% operator error. 


agreed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Jeffrey Atwood


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

Good read, I need to spend more time in the fi forum these days.
My input, even if it doesn't help: I ran a stock engine, no arp, stock headgasket etc 10:1 at 7-8psi for 10k miles+, and 15lbs for another 1500-2000 including an hour on the dyno with no damage. Never opened 90k mile vr. Lucky... fast and inexpensive.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Here's what I'll have in less than a month (after my tranny rebuild)...
15psi
8.5 head gasket
arp headbolts
Walbro
in addition to the c2 setup I've already got.
i/c'd turbo.
So, I'll let you know. And trust me, I'm a good barometer b/c I literally beat the living isht out of my vr. It's constantly in boost. 
It's tuned correctly and I only get about 12miles/gal. I just can't keep my foot off.
So, if my motor holds up...then I'm lucky or it can just handle it (which, from the sounds of it...it will).
Later,


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## vweuroracer (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

hehehehe, good thread. bubonic, way to own. justin, way to own.


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## Mr Black (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: (nycvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BubonicCorrado* »_The stock bottom end can handle pretty much whatever you can throw at it *with the addition of ARP rod bolts, head-studs, and main bolts*. The secret is all in the tuning. I haven't done it yet personally. But I can't afford to break trannys and half-shafts right now



_Quote, originally posted by *nycvr6* »_
I would put ARP rod and main bolts on any boosted setup. 

This is what I'm referring to. I realize you didn't say ANY boosted motor needed forged pistons. I was trying to get a handle on what you people consider a 'built' bottom end. Don't be so defensive and start with this "misquoting" nonsense. I'm asking questions, not arguing one side or the other.


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## WRJetta (Apr 13, 2004)

*Re: (Mr Black)*

Wow, i haven't posted in a while, besides starting the thread, now its some hate bashing and what not. Basically, i wanted to know what more i needed to do with my setup. I'm looking to run about 15 psi, with 440cc injectors, to4b turbo, 3" downpipe, exhaust, boost controller, 255 walbro fuel pump, and whatever else i will be needing. I'm sure i forgot some stuff also. Anyway, i still have no bought a headgasket, or software yet cause i was wondering what is the best route to go with that. I have heard good stuff about C2Motorsports spacer and software, but i can't get ahold of him lately. Also, i've been told to run engine management for a VR6-T. Any more opinions on what is still needed for my car would be greatly appreciated. 
Also, i have an NGP lightened flywheel, spec stage 3 clutch, and Peloquin LSD.


_Modified by WRJetta at 11:53 PM 9-30-2004_


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: (Mr Black)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr Black* »_

This is what I'm referring to. I realize you didn't say ANY boosted motor needed forged pistons. I was trying to get a handle on what you people consider a 'built' bottom end. Don't be so defensive and start with this "misquoting" nonsense. I'm asking questions, not arguing one side or the other. 

You directly quoted me and said there was contradictions. There was no contradiction, so thats why i was defensive. It's hard to understand what people are getting at in text sometimes.


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## JamesGti1.8T (Feb 3, 2004)

*Re: How much boost can the 12V VR6 bottom end handle? (WRJetta)*

well ifyou replace the head gasket you can run between 12-15psi. good to around 400whp


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