# Getting an SRI ceramic coated. Good idea?



## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

So Ive been thinking about ceramic coating alot lately and was wondering if it would be a good idea for those of us with an SRI to do. Since all of them produced so far have been metal, I would think this would help cut down intake temps by a good amount and keep the underhood bits cooler. I know that ceramic coating is usually used for exhaust headers but I figured it might be a good idea to use on the intake manifold as well. Whenever I get around to getting a header for my Rabbit, chances are itll be getting ceramic coating. Having both manis ceramic coated would prolly yield some decent performance gains on a modded car I would think. Any thoughts on this guys?


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I think its definitely a good idea, considering even my factory plastic mani gets pretty hot to the touch... It could yield a slight gain even if its a few lbs of torque or hp. 

I would say first though, cost vs. advantage difference... How much does the coating cost? Plus down time. If its marginal gains then skip it until you have something major going on and the car is off the road for a bit.

I know myself have been thinking about when I get the c2 mani, i will be either powder coating it and my turbo piping, or possibly ceramic coating it... I'm going to research heat insulation and absorption between the two and if its barely different I'll go with the cheaper option


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

It doesnt seem to be too terribly expensive but then again, Ive only looked up Jet-Hot prices so far. Yeah the downtime for it is also a factor that comes into play. Id prolly save it for a time when I get some internal work done to the engine like new valvetrain stuff but that wont be for some time. Ill have to look into it all some more.


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

ceramic coating is better. I met a gentleman on the race track. Then he was driving an '84 coupe Quattro, which are rare. He had ceramic coated everything. He was pushing 450 hp, and it is evident on the race track. He was going around some of the 911s' with ease.
Here is a site to a company explaining the process and benefits:
http://engineeredapps.com/headers.shtml
they are local to me, I think i might hit them once i get an SRI


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

do it. log intake temps, and get the diff


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

The IAT sensor is before the port- so you will not measure any difference that way... 

If anything, the intake manifold will actually appear to be *hotter* since it is heated via conduction out of the cylinder head, and cooled by the relatively cool air traveling in it. 

I would personally put the money somewhere else.


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## kiserhd (Feb 2, 2008)

You're dealing with significantly hotter temps with the exhaust. The reason ceramic coating is a good choice there is it cuts down on the radiant temps coming off the headers, or exhaust manifold. This also keeps the heat in the pipes allowing the exhaust gasses to remain hot and move at a higher velocity.

On an intake, if anything, I would think it would increase the IAT's since it acts more as an insulator. Since you're not turbocharged you're more than likely running a short ram or cold air intake so you're already pulling in cooler outside air. That air itself will have more of a cooling effect than ceramic coating.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

What about using a phenolic spacer between the sri? It'll surely keep temps down, and is probably cheaper to get made anyway...plus you have your old intake manifold to use for a template...


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## kiserhd (Feb 2, 2008)

TylerO28 said:


> What about using a phenolic spacer between the sri? It'll surely keep temps down, and is probably cheaper to get made anyway...plus you have your old intake manifold to use for a template...


Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the SRI use a different set of gaskets than the OEM setup? Not sure how that would transfer over if you're using the stock intake manifold as a template.

Also with as much room as the SRI takes up already if you use a spacer wouldn't you need to relocate the dipstick since there is not much room left to begin with?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

kiserhd said:


> Also with as much room as the SRI takes up already if you use a spacer wouldn't you need to relocate the dipstick since there is not much room left to begin with?


Yip.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

C2s SRI uses the stock gasket.


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## kiserhd (Feb 2, 2008)

DerekH said:


> C2s SRI uses the stock gasket.


The OP has the HEP/UM SRI.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

I'm wrapping the exhaust one of these days... I just need to get down there...


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Phenolic heat isolation spacers are really only maybe 1/4" thick at most. Are the manifolds really that tight? C2's mani when released will fit with less room being swallowed up...


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## kiserhd (Feb 2, 2008)

TylerO28 said:


> Phenolic heat isolation spacers are really only maybe 1/4" thick at most. Are the manifolds really that tight? C2's mani when released will fit with less room being swallowed up...


Again the OP has the HEP/UM manifold, from the pictures I've seen it is pretty tight. I'm sure you could get a 1/4 inch of play in the dipstick tube, but I am also unaware of any other limitations in the plumbing for the manifold.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

It's already a plastic intake manifold guys... It won't do much at all, unless you have a short runner.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I know op has the hep mani... But I was speaking to the option with c2..
Op what does the hep sri use for gasket? I think I read o rings if that is the case, I would have an 1/8" spacer cut to match its flange, and put that between the head..so from the head it would go 
Head
Phenolic spacer port matched and flat
O rings
Mani...it'll seal as if bolted to the head


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Yeah Im pretty sure they use O-rings for each seperate runner. Yes, its pretty tight as it is with the mani in there now but I think a 1/8 to 1/4 could be done without any problem.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> It's already a plastic intake manifold guys... It won't do much at all, unless you have a short runner.


Aftermarket manifold is what they are talking about :sly: Not the oem manifold!LOL


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tay272 said:


> Yeah Im pretty sure they use O-rings for each seperate runner. Yes, its pretty tight as it is with the mani in there now but I think a 1/8 to 1/4 could be done without any problem.


If your gonna do it, go with Swain-Tech White lightning. That would look so good on the UM im :thumbup:


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## kiserhd (Feb 2, 2008)

I don't know the exact temps you're dealing with, and I'm not really sure if it would work for you. But I've used a heat barrier with a lot of the electronics we work with. I've used two forms a synthetic gasket material, resembles vinyl you just cut it to shape. The other is a caulk. I can dig up the information on it if that would be a cheaper alternative.


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> If your gonna do it, go with Swain-Tech White lightning. That would look so good on the UM im :thumbup:


 Found this: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/326753-swain-tech-vs-hp-coatings.html
Scroll down to the middle, and it will show you what Swain-Tech will look like. Actually I Like it. I might get that.
Price sheet:http://www.swaintech.com/store.asp?pid=10971


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

eatrach said:


> Found this: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/326753-swain-tech-vs-hp-coatings.html
> Scroll down to the middle, and it will show you what Swain-Tech will look like. Actually I Like it. I might get that.
> Price sheet:http://www.swaintech.com/store.asp?pid=10971


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Nice, I read somewhere a couple months back about a guy who bought the OBX header and Im pretty sure he got it coated by these guys. I think hes got a vid on youtube of his car with just open headers and it is LOUD. Looks like quality stuff tho so I might look into them alittle more. After thinking about this more tho, the intake mani Ill prolly hold off on for awhile till I find out if its really worth it or not. Header and testpipe will be getting coated eventually tho.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tay272 said:


> Nice, I read somewhere a couple months back about a guy who bought the OBX header and Im pretty sure he got it coated by these guys. I think hes got a vid on youtube of his car with just open headers and it is LOUD. Looks like quality stuff tho so I might look into them alittle more. After thinking about this more tho, the intake mani Ill prolly hold off on for awhile till I find out if its really worth it or not. Header and testpipe will be getting coated eventually tho.


The IM will not be worth it but it will look cool :thumbup: Header and testpipe will be worth it :thumbup:


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

What about the VC cause Im sure that gives off a decent amount of heat when the engines running? I kinda dont want to get an aftermarket VC cause of having to run a catchcan with it and all that. Id rather have it setup the stock way but if it was coated, the VC would look alot better I think.


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## H3LVTCA (Oct 27, 2004)

I got my Eurojet headers ceramic-coated. Not by Swan, but by a local shop. The final product came out amazing. If I get the C2 manifold on 8/1, I will probably also have it ceramic-coated by the same company.


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

@OP

Have you considered just using some exhaust wrap? Almost no downtime as it can be done in an afternoon by you so you wont have to disassemble your engine, ship the part somewhere pay them to ceramic coat the thing, pay & wait for it to be shipped back then reassemble everything? Wrapping it is much quicker, definitely cheaper (like $50 a roll), and would give you the same results.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Yeah its cheaper and quicker but Ive heard bad things about using exhaust wraps from multiple people so Im steering clear of that for right now.


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## kiserhd (Feb 2, 2008)

tay272 said:


> What about the VC cause Im sure that gives off a decent amount of heat when the engines running? I kinda dont want to get an aftermarket VC cause of having to run a catchcan with it and all that. Id rather have it setup the stock way but if it was coated, the VC would look alot better I think.


Can you coat the stock plastic VC?


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

kiserhd said:


> Can you coat the stock plastic VC?


 i dont' think so. but I could be wrong.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

I always thought it was metal but never really looked at it closely. Guess if I do get it coated, it would have to be an aftermarket one. Im still waiting to see if anyone buys one of the Audi TTRS VCs and puts it on their 2.5 cause Ive heard that it will bolt up. Keeps all the breather tubes intact and no catch can needed, prolly even pricier then getting an aftermarket one but it is red so at least it would look cool and still be OEM.


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

tay272 said:


> Yeah its cheaper and quicker but Ive heard bad things about using exhaust wraps from multiple people so Im steering clear of that for right now.


OP: I'm pretty sure they're telling you eventually they crumble to pieces and fall apart correct? And that their operating temperatures arent accurate and dont leave them very durable? Well that is true. Alot of header wrap/exhaust wrap/heat wrap whatever u wanna call it is silica or fiberglass based and overtime being exposed to many heat cycles (heating to full operating temperature then cooling down to ambient) destroyes the chemical bonds and causes them to deteriorate.

Companies rate these silica based wraps with higher operating temperatures than actual in terms of both direct heat and radiant heat temperatures. But this is 2011 and times have changed. The industry has already discovered this problem and is addressing it. I have done my research. Allow me to share my findings with you.

Initially, companies tried to strengthen their silica wraps by using a titanium weave in the mesh to act as braces that the silica could cling to. This extended their life for sure, but its more like treating the symptoms rather than curing the disease.

The newest wraps use something the industry has dubbed "lava fiber." It uses basaltic rock in place of silica so it is almost immune to heat cycling. Rapid heating & cooling no longer changes the order of the atoms and they all stay very organized regardless of operating temperature.

Now wouldnt it be great if we could combine the benefits of lava fiber over silica with the strengthening and rigidity provided by using a titanium weave (since titanium is lighter and has a higher heat threshold than steel)? Well that is the latest development that has come about. Only a few companies produce these variants but the good news is they arent hard to find and cost about the same as typical silica wrap (~$50 for a standard roll). They even come now with upgraded heavy-duty clips/clamps which were another shortcoming of early wraps. They dont work if they dont stay in place mind you!

Some low-level wraps have heat ratings of 1000F direct heat and 2000F ambient but titanium-weave "lava fiber" wraps have a direct heat rating of 2000F and can withstand 3000F of radiant heat which is well beyond what your engine will ever see.

The one I'm getting to cure the soaring oil temperature problem in my monster turbo Rabbit build is Vulcan Ultimate titanium-weave "lava fiber" wrap. The company has no website that I am aware of, but this wrap is available from many vendors and marketplaces including for cheap on Amazon.com

Cheers on your build fellow Dubber :beer:


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Thank you for all that info man, I appreciate it. It all sounds good and I will look into that more but another reason I steered away from exhaust wrap is because I want the pipes to still look like pipes. I like the bare metal look over a header thats wrapped up. Just my personal preference thats all. Im glad I got more people talking about this tho cause Im sure some of you other guys have been curious about doing this or wanted some more info about it.


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

I've been reading around here that header wrap will destroy your exhaust mani, etc etc etc. First of all, my friend been running it on his open header k20 straight out the hole cut in his hood for quiet a while. This car makes over 600whp and header wrap holding up just fine.

Sure the ebay stuff is junk, just like everything else on ebay (if you don't know what you're buying then its junk).

So with that said, my street bob had header wrap for years and it didn't fail. The 88CI air cooled motor runs a LOT hotter (230-250* oil temps during summer) than any water cooled VW's too FYI. It was installed by Harley Davidson South of Indianapolis, IN many years ago for the previous owner. Contact Harley if you want to know about header wrap that does what it is supposed to.

I believe there is header wrap out there that does work well, lasts, and compared to thermal coatings is just as good. Things like coatings are for jet engines, or atleast engines that run on jet fuel.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I've seen the new titanium header wrap...handles higher temps... looks nice... A little more expensive, but I'm thinking it's a better option longevity wise...


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

I'll be wrapping the entire wxhaust this week... I just need to get my lazy ass to do so...


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Why do the whole thing?? I'd think you would be just wasting your money at that point...however once my turbo arrives, I'll be looking into a turbo blanket/fabbing up a heat shield


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> I'll be wrapping the entire wxhaust this week... I just need to get my lazy ass to do so...


Takes like 20 mins. Very quick and painless, you only have to do the 12" section that is close to the firewall :thumbup:



TylerO28 said:


> Why do the whole thing?? I'd think you would be just wasting your money at that point...however once my turbo arrives, I'll be looking into a turbo blanket/fabbing up a heat shield


Our charge piping and maf dont cross over the manifold like a 2.0t so a heat shield is not necessary. Turbo banky's are worth it however go with the DEI titanium and not some heat fabric


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