# NGP Racing Project CC R - 4motion Swap Content Inside



## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

*If you enjoy modding your car as much as I do, this thread is for you. If you love performance, handling, track days and twisty back roads, this thread is also for you. In this thread I'll give you an inside look at New German Performance, how we work, how we play, and why we love to do what we do.*

Have you ever had an idea, some really crazy idea of how you'd like to build your car? Like, sky's the limit kind of big. Like you could throw all the parts you could think of at it. You guys know what I mean: Build your car the way you thought it was mean't to be from the factory.

Well, the plans for my car didn't completely start off like that, originally the CC was just to be a nice daily driver while I was going to finish building up my '93 SLC Corrado. That didn't last long. I'd owned the CC for less than 12 hours before she was flashed to APR stage 1 software and of course the Carbonio Stage I and II intakes were installed shortly thereafter. It didn't even make it to the weekend before a fresh shipment of our Type I coilovers arrived at our shop (which just had to be installed). And then of course we had some Rotiform BLQs in on the shelf and all it took was a few days and some nice sticky Falkens made everything ride nice. Fast forward about 2 years (and a lot more parts as you may or may not read below) and the car was a real daily driver beast with the capability to go to the occasional track day as well.

But it just didn't feel enough, there was something missing. Part of this mentality draws from where I work. At NGP, you are constantly surrounded by show cars, high-end supercharged V8 builds, engine swaps, $180,000 V10 R8s, the list could go on. You also have the wonderful opportunity to work with some of the most knowledgeable mechanics in the VAG field. Being around all of this and having so many resources available to you, it really just boils down to what your imagination can dream up and how much money is in your pocket.

That being said, one night, I was hanging out with some co-workers after work, just doing an oil change on my car. Somehow that ended up with us looking at the rear subframe of the car and thinking, "We can totally swap this thing to AWD easily.So lets do it." Now, to preface, we get all kinds of stupid crazy ideas at the shop that don't usually turn into anything. The idea to build a rear wheel drive Scirocco 1 with a longitudinally mounted big turbo TSI along with DSG is the current popular crazy idea. Well a few days, some more brain-storming sessions (along with the wonderful information in lour32's build thread, ever so helpful!), and some more down to earth thinking (originally the idea was to find a 3.6 VR6, turbo it and swap it into the car along with a manual transmission) the decision was made to build the car the Volkswagen never gave us, a real "CC R" if you will. I'll stop waxing sentimental at this point and get on with the build. I hope you guys enjoy it as much as we enjoyed putting it all together.

To help those new to this thread, directly below is a timeline of sorts of all the parts installed up to this point. If you'd like to skip to where the story is at so far, just scroll down to where the 4motion build starts.

Most of the upgrades were done in stages and we will be presenting them in the same way. If anyone has any questions about the work we've done to the car or any of the parts installed, please feel free to PM me or contact me directly. I'm always available to talk to fellow car enthusiasts.

*To make it easy for anyone that wants to see any previous upgrades done to the car, I'll save you some reading by giving you the link to the mod list on the NGP Racing website. I'll update this section at some point with pics and info on all the upgrades already installed to the car before the 4motion swap.*

*4motion AWD Swap*
Ahh, here is the real meat and potatoes of this build, the true reason you clicked on this thread (I don't mind at all, it's my favorite part of this whole build)

But first, a quick preface on why we went AWD (other than the reasoning of: why not?): As many of you might know, New German Performance been in the performance tuning business for quite some time now, and we have had a history filled with many a big horsepower VW/Audi project car. Aside from the VR6T Rallye Golfs that we built awhile ago, our VW project cars have always been FWD. Now as much as we love a great FWD car (ask me sometime how much I drool over building a mk5 Rabbit track car), at the end of the day, putting down over 450 angry ponies to the ground through only the front wheels is a bit daunting to say the least. This 4motion conversion lets us reliably put down the power that the forthcoming turbo kit will produce, with a minor hit in weight (about 210 lbs) Also donuts, donuts are another good reason to do an AWD swap... 

The parts list. If you've been waiting on doing your own AWD swap, this list will contain every part that we used in the process converting to 4motion. This list will be completed as I have time, so please be patient. *Please note that we are not responsible in any way for the usage of this information. If you are going to complete this swap on your own, make sure you know what you are getting into first!*

*Rear components*
0BS525010A/B - Final drive assembly (the glorious haldex rear differential assembly that makes 4motion possible)
You can also use a Tiguan unit as well since the rear subframe is the same on a Tiguan as it is on the B6 Passat/CC.
5N0505235L - Rear AWD subframe assembly
*B6 Passat/CC/Tiguan only!* I found out the hard way and bought an Audi RS3 rear subframe that installed, but sat two inches to far back to install the prop shaft.
3C0201055AE - Passat/CC 3.6 4motion fuel tank
3C0919673B - Transfer pump/second fuel level sender
1J0919133B - Seal for transfer pump/sender
1K0201375 - Locking nut for transfer pump/sender
3C0201653C - Fuel tank strap #1
3C0201654B - Fuel tank strap #2
3C0201307B - AWD fuel tank heat shield
3C0505433G - Left rear AWD spindle assembly
3C0505434G - Right rear AWD spindle assembly
1K0501203F - Left rear axle
1K0501204F - Right rear axle
3C0498621 x2 - Rear hub/bearing assembly (you'll need two, they're the same as the fronts)
3C0521101AJ - Passat/CC Prop shaft assembly
3C0971166B - Haldex wiring harness
WHT003857 - Left rear ABS sensor
WHT003856 - Right rear ABS sensor
3C0971166B - Haldex wiring harness. Please note that this is only the part of the harness that connects to the Haldex control module on the rear differential.
It comes with the 8 pin connector on one end, the grommet for sealing it to the body of the car, about two feet of wiring, and the 6 pin connector on the other end.
The rest of the harness is part of the main chassis harness and is not available unless you want to purchase a $1400 factory harness and re-wire about 1/4 of your car.
You will need to make a five wire harness that will reach to the front end of the car. I'll post up the connection location information as soon as I've wired my own up.

Rear sway bar - Due to the location of the rear differential assembly, the FWD sway bar will not fit. This is a good opportunity to upgrade to a better aftermarket rear sway bar.
I went with a SuperPro 26mm solid adjustable sway bar, but there are many aftermarket options available. Just make sure it's for an AWD application before purchasing it!

Exhaust system
You will not be able to use your existing FWD exhaust system with the AWD components installed. This is due to the routing of the exhaust pipe on FWD models.
The FWD exhaust goes between the chassis and the rear control arm assembly. However, you will have a drive axle in that area when the car is AWD.
The solution is to either source a 3.6 4motion exhaust system or to make your own.

*Front components*
_This information is 6 speed MT only! Please do not ask me questions about DSG as my research has been entirely manual transmission based._

Now there are two ways you can go about this, either buy a whole 6spd AWD transmission, or make your own.
I went with the latter path and found that most manual transmission CCs with build dates up to mid 2011 have the needed mounting points on the transmission case to attach the AWD transfer case.

Building your own:
0AV409053S - Angle drive transfer case from a Mk2 TT, Golf R, A3, etc. *Do not get one from a 3.6 4motion car!* The 3.6 4motion transfer case uses a completely different automatic transmission.
N90990202 x4 - Hardware to attach transfer case to transmission.
02M409905AQ - Transfer case support bracket. This attaches and braces the transfer case assembly to the back of the engine. If buying used parts, please note that 02M409905*AH* is designed for use on an FSI engine and will not work on the TSI.
N91000002 x3, N91002702 x2, N10425302 x1 - Hardware to attach support bracket to transfer case and engine.
02J409359* - Bolt that secures the transfer case and differential together. 
The ekta listing for this part is incorrect however (silly VW listing incorrect part numbers), I've simply posted this for a placeholder until I can find the correct number since the transfer case I pulled had the correct bolt already.
AWD differential - You could use a stock one, but I decided on using a Peloquins VW/Audi high torque limited slip differential since this thing will be hitting the track.
02Q409021T - Standard 4motion/Quattro open differential if you are not installing a limited slip.
06F145735F - TT/A3 oil return line (I'm still trying to track down the exact part number for this one. I pulled one off of an Audi TT with a TSI engine, but it doesn't have a part number on it)
You will need the different oil return line to clear the transfer case. On a side note, it uses a stainless braided line and is much nicer than the FWD rubber unit.
1K0407720A/B - Axle heat shield. Attaches to transfer case. You can also use the unit from other 4motion/Quattro cars, but you will need to modify it to fit.
3C0407272BD/HX - Passenger side front driveshaft/axle. This is the same unit as used on the Golf R, Audi TT, etc. The unit used on the 3.6 4motion Passat/CC will not work since it's for an automatic and has a different flange.

Front sway bar - Once again, you will not be able to use the FWD sway bar due to fitment issues with the new front transfer case. 
I used a SuperPro 24mm solid adjustable sway bar, but once again, there are many AWD aftermarket options available.

All in one unit:
02Q300011CE - 6MT AWD transmission (Golf R/TTS/S3) - If you just want to purchase the whole thing pre-assembled from the factory. Please note that this is only the transmission and transfer case only!
You will still need several of the components from the building your own section above.

*Optional components used in this build*
3C8807521A - 4motion dual outlet valance
Since we were already going to need to make a new exhaust, I decided to just make a dual outlet one seeing as it fits the 4motion theme of the overall car.

...

*Installation So Far:*

Old subframe/suspension assembly removed









What we're left with after the stock fuel tank and subframe have been removed.









4motion fuel tank installed


















New Heatshield installed









View from the back









New OE 4motion dual outlet exhaust valence being installed









Golf R Haldex rear differential and suspension installed









Different angle









Figuring out exhaust tip fitment


















More custom exhaust fitment









More pics to come soon!

_With everything going on with the car right now I more than likely forgot something, so don't be surprised if I update this post with new info in the future._


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## [email protected] (Oct 30, 2007)

Subscribed, naturally.


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## Stickz405 (Aug 28, 2014)

NICE!!


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

[email protected]!NG said:


> Subscribed, naturally.





Stickz405 said:


> NICE!!


Thanks guys. :thumbup::thumbup:

I've been slowly getting pics resized and hosted, so bear with me.
I should also have the parts list updated a bit more later today.

Here's what we started with. All the rear end parts (and a few front parts too):








_Ignore the large heatshield, I wasn't sure if I'd need it so I ordered it from a 3.6 CC. Turns out you don't need it._

Dis-assembly of the old rear suspension 









Removing the stock rubber bushings from rear trailing arms









We ended up removing all the the weak puny stock rubber bushings so we could install these beautiful things from SuperPro:


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

*FV-QR*

*Updated parts list*


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## iMod.:R (Nov 14, 2005)

Awesome stuff Chuck, keep it flowin! :beer::thumbup:


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## _you_can_call_me_al__ (Sep 23, 2010)

opcorn:


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## kcvento97 (Mar 7, 2004)

Bitchin :thumbup:


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

The PERFECT project :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

iMod.:R said:


> Awesome stuff Chuck, keep it flowin! :beer::thumbup:


Thanks dude! Your CC is one of my inspirations for this project!



Capncrnch said:


> opcorn:


More content coming tonight!



kcvento97 said:


> Bitchin :thumbup:





jspirate said:


> The PERFECT project :thumbup:


Thanks guys!

I should have more updates to the parts list soon for those looking to do their own conversion. :beer:

Shout out to TyrolSport for their support of this project! These guys know their stuff and you'll be seeing quite a few of their great products going onto the CC R.

Since we had to install the new AWD rear subframe, we installed a set of TyrolSport's great rear deadset subframe collar kits.
For those of you unfamiliar with this kit, the collars make everything sit completely flush and tight instead of having a gap between the hardware and subframe assembly.
Removal of the unneeded shifting of the rear subframe allows for significantly better response from the rear suspension.









Installation is very simple, (especially so if you already have the rear subframe off of the car). 

Speaking of, this is the AWD rear subframe that you'll need if you're doing this swap.









You simply need to remove the 4 bolts holding the rear subframe to the car.
There are a few methods to do this, but I highly reccomend having access to a lift and proper supports to do it safely and efficiently.
Once you have the bolts removed, simply insert the TyrolSport brass collars and use the included new OEM hardware. Re-install subframe, align rear suspension and you're done.
I've got some pics of them installed on my work computer, but sadly I'm out of the office at the moment. I'll have them posted up here tonight.

*Exhaust update*
The downpipe section is complete and the catback portion is about 90% done.

42 Draft Designs crafted this extremely nice AWD downpipe with a V-band fitting at the bottom so I quickly install my test pipe for track days.









42 Draft Designs also supplied us with a pair of their 4" brushed stainless steel tips. These should be installed very soon.









*Rear ABS sensors*
Last night we installed the new rear ABS sensors. The FWD ones will not install into the new rear spindle assemblies.
We also extended the sensor wiring as the stock wiring would have been stretched a bit too tight and could possibly break.
So far no ABS faults, but then again there shouldn't be any yet since we still have to wire up the factory Haldex harness.

*More SuperPro Bushings*








We've got all of the SuperPro rear suspension bushings installed at this point. I do not suggest these as a DIY job at home.
Some of the bushings are a very tight fit and require specific tools to press in properly.

That said, these are some of the best made pieces of polyurethane that I've ever handled. The guys at SuperPro definitely know their stuff.
I can't wait to get this thing back on the road so I can test them out. :thumbup:


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

So.... what the plan for the ECU?


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

jspirate said:


> So.... what the plan for the ECU?


Here's the thing. Pre-facelifted CCs (FWD and AWD) all use the same overall ABS system, which is very very good if you're doing this swap.
From looking at other people's swaps, I'll probably have to have the ECU coded to say it's AWD to avoid getting any pesky codes.
That's the least of my worries though, I can have someone here to re-program my ECU the same day if need be.
If this were a DSG AWD swap, there may be a few more caveats as far as the ECU, but Jason would be better to ask that question than myself since he's done one.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Here's the thing. Pre-facelifted CCs (FWD and AWD) all use the same overall ABS system, which is very very good if you're doing this swap.


I like the way that sounds! I've always had this on my list of things to do, but I've never spent any real time researching it. In the past its been low on the list. It seems to be creeping up now.

Keep posting updates... I am taking notes


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## 315cc (Nov 19, 2014)

My roommate and I were talking about all of this yesterday. I said, the CC would probably be a much sicker car if it came AWD in the 2.0T. I mean I already love it, handles great, sexy design, and people see it all the time and ask about it and give me compliments lol. But we were talking about how much it would cost to convert to AWD and I mentioned to him about this build. So rough estimate what would you say it would cost to do this build when everything is said and done? I'm just curious.


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## kcvento97 (Mar 7, 2004)

So far it seems like one of those "if you have to ask..." projects lol. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Eurofication (Jul 10, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Here's the thing. Pre-facelifted CCs (FWD and AWD) all use the same overall ABS system, which is very very good if you're doing this swap.
> From looking at other people's swaps, I'll probably have to have the ECU coded to say it's AWD to avoid getting any pesky codes.
> That's the least of my worries though, I can have someone here to re-program my ECU the same day if need be.
> If this were a DSG AWD swap, there may be a few more caveats as far as the ECU, but Jason would be better to ask that question than myself since he's done one.


Was going to actually ask about what if I wanted to do this swap with the DSG Transmission. I did read most of Jason's build and saw the issues that came from it. However was wondering with the pre facelift I would assume I would still use the same DSG Transmission Jason used correct.


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## Lucian1988 (Mar 25, 2009)

oh hell yes. I've wanted an AWD manual CC for so long. whats the running cost of all of this?


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

I have no idea how much this would cost. We should start a pool and guess.. like guessing how many jellybeans are in a glass jar. 

Then again... it would probably just muck up the thread. Scratch that jellybean idea! 

Transmission is what would run my cost up... probably would opt for the Golf R tranny...


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

jspirate said:


> I like the way that sounds! I've always had this on my list of things to do, but I've never spent any real time researching it. In the past its been low on the list. It seems to be creeping up now.
> 
> Keep posting updates... I am taking notes


Don't worry, I plan on updating this thread as much as possible.



315cc said:


> My roommate and I were talking about all of this yesterday. I said, the CC would probably be a much sicker car if it came AWD in the 2.0T. I mean I already love it, handles great, sexy design, and people see it all the time and ask about it and give me compliments lol. But we were talking about how much it would cost to convert to AWD and I mentioned to him about this build. So rough estimate what would you say it would cost to do this build when everything is said and done? I'm just curious.


Cost is pretty much whatever you can get all the parts for. I am fortunate enough to work for a shop where I get very good deals on the many parts needed to do this.
For the average individual without access to such supplies or tools, I'd estimate the cost to be around $5-6k in parts and maybe around $4-5k in installation cost at our shop 
hourly rate for a custom build like this. Keep in mind that I've been installing a few extra aftermarket parts that aren't necessary for the swap. 
Depending on how you had the rear exhaust section made, you could possibly save some money there as well.



kcvento97 said:


> So far it seems like one of those "if you have to ask..." projects lol.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Kinda sorta. I don't mind giving out quotes at all. It's more like people don't like hearing realistic prices for this kind of stuff. 



Eurofication said:


> Was going to actually ask about what if I wanted to do this swap with the DSG Transmission. I did read most of Jason's build and saw the issues that came from it. However was wondering with the pre facelift I would assume I would still use the same DSG Transmission Jason used correct.


I'm honestly not as sharp on DSG info as I should be. There have been several different versions of the DSG released between 2008 and now so I couldn't tell you for certain.



Lucian1988 said:


> oh hell yes. I've wanted an AWD manual CC for so long. whats the running cost of all of this?


It's honestly how the R Line models should have come from the factory. At least that's how I feel about them.



jspirate said:


> I have no idea how much this would cost. We should start a pool and guess.. like guessing how many jellybeans are in a glass jar.
> 
> Then again... it would probably just muck up the thread. Scratch that jellybean idea!
> 
> Transmission is what would run my cost up... probably would opt for the Golf R tranny...


I'll try to get some relative pricing for people when everything is all said and done.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


>


So that dif in the pic is the peloquin? Curious about the aftermarket dif and its inclusion into the OEM 4mo. I am running the wavetrac so, this might cut my costs a little.

Sorry for the spamming of questions, but this is a modification that I think... well, it really needs to be done. Done on my car.

My wife is going to be so jacked when she finds out that the major modifying isn't done on the CC yet!


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

jspirate said:


> So that dif in the pic is the peloquin? Curious about the aftermarket dif and its inclusion into the OEM 4mo. I am running the wavetrac so, this might cut my costs a little.
> 
> Sorry for the spamming of questions, but this is a modification that I think... well, it really needs to be done. Done on my car.
> 
> My wife is going to be so jacked when she finds out that the major modifying isn't done on the CC yet!


Yup, it's a Peloquin AWD limited slip differential. It has the extra splines on the end to work with the AWD transfer case.
You guys are in luck, we're doing a limited slip diff install on a FWD GTI right now, I'll get pics to show the difference.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Yup, it's a Peloquin AWD limited slip differential. It has the extra splines on the end to work with the AWD transfer case.
> You guys are in luck, we're doing a limited slip diff install on a FWD GTI right now, I'll get pics to show the difference.


Ahhh, so the diff is specific to the AWD setup. Makes sense. Dollars and cents in my case!


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

jspirate said:


> Ahhh, so the diff is specific to the AWD setup. Makes sense. Dollars and cents in my case!


Pretty much:

FWD limited slip differential (with bearing and ring gear installed):









AWD limited slip diff:









AWD transfer case shaft:









Closeup on the inner splines:


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

thanks


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## VirgoPHD (Dec 12, 2014)

Thank you this is what I want to do:beer::thumbup::beer::beer::beer:


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

jspirate said:


> thanks





VirgoPHD said:


> Thank you this is what I want to do:beer::thumbup::beer::beer::beer:


Happy to oblige. :thumbup:

*Updates*

*SuperPro 26mm solid rear sway bar installed*

We finally finished the install of the rear sway last night. We were running into an issue with the stock end links not fitting properly.

The solution: 034 Motorsport adjustable rear sway bar endlinks









No issues with fitment now, and they look great to boot!









*TyrolSport AWD rear deadset kit pics*

As promised, here's the pics of the TyrolSport AWD rear deadset kit installed:


















*More Exhaust Fab Work*

We're just about done the exhaust at this point. Some final tip fitment remains.




























*Some transmission work*

So last night we managed to find out that the AWD transfer case bolts right up to the factory FWD 02Q transmission.
Originally I had thought that you would need to use the clutch housing side of the transmission case to install the transfer case.
It appears this is not the case, you will need to drill and tap some holes though. You will still also need the AWD differential.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

And just a little sound teaser...


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> And just a little sound teaser...


That sounds great! Its a little louder than I would want, but its not enough reason to drop this off the list. Easy to fix...

BTW, who ever is taking pictures is doing a great job. Looks better than the average potato pic :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

jspirate said:


> That sounds great! Its a little louder than I would want, but its not enough reason to drop this off the list. Easy to fix...
> 
> BTW, who ever is taking pictures is doing a great job. Looks better than the average potato pic :thumbup:


Thanks dude! I'm pretty much the staff photographer at the shop. Most of my photography time at the shop is spent on products, track days or car shows. 
But builds like this are my favorite to shoot since there are so many little details to capture. The fact that this one happens to be my own is icing on the cake. 

If you like the pics in this thread, feel free to browse my Flickr page sometime.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Thanks dude! I'm pretty much the staff photographer at the shop. Most of my photography time at the shop is spent on products, track days or car shows.
> But builds like this are my favorite to shoot since there are so many little details to capture. The fact that this one happens to be my own is icing on the cake.
> 
> If you like the pics in this thread, feel free to browse my Flickr page sometime.


Yes sir... lots of good photography in there! I am just a glorified point-n-shoot guy, so I am jealous of your camera.

Saw the WOW screenshots... still recovering from my 3 year addiction :laugh:


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

jspirate said:


> Yes sir... lots of good photography in there! I am just a glorified point-n-shoot guy, so I am jealous of your camera.
> 
> Saw the WOW screenshots... still recovering from my 3 year addiction :laugh:


Haha, forgot those were in there. 
Yeah, I managed to kick the addiction about 2 years ago. 
Used to play it professionally; never again will I spend that much time on a game. :banghead:


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

*More exhaust fab pics*

Since I've gotten a few requests to see what the exhaust we're fabricating looks like, here are some pics of it before the last few final welds:


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## iMod.:R (Nov 14, 2005)

Looking super sick so far man. Good photography and reporting as all "wild" build threads should be. Cant wait for more buddy! opcorn:


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

iMod.:R said:


> Looking super sick so far man. Good photography and reporting as all "wild" build threads should be. Cant wait for more buddy! opcorn:


Thanks for the kind words! I'll probably be posting up some more pics of the rear end install this week as well as some exhaust vids. 
I let my buddies have the week off since we were hanging out at the shop working on my car till 11:30pm for about a week and a half straight. :screwy:


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## MSD (Feb 12, 2003)

Awesome work! I've been thinking about an OEM R conversion for a while, just like this. But I have neither the skill nor the money to do it, so I'll live vicariously through this thread. :beer:


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

MSD said:


> Awesome work! I've been thinking about an OEM R conversion for a while, just like this. But I have neither the skill nor the money to do it, so I'll live vicariously through this thread. :beer:


Haha, I'll be more than happy to build this car up as much as I can for you guys. :beer:


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

*Exhaust is finished!*

The 4" 42 Draft Designs brushed tips sit perfect in the 4motion rear valence.




























*SuperPro Rear Suspension Upgrades Feedback*

So after driving the car for the past week with the SuperPro bushings and 26mm solid adjustable bar installed, all I can say is WOW!
I've had the SuperPro front control arm bracket bushings and their adjustable ball joints on the car for awhile now, and I knew to expect great things, but the level of control that has been added really is amazing.
The combination of the solid suspension feedback the bushings give and that big solid rear bar allow you to place the rear of the car exactly where you want it.
If you're an apex hunter such as myself, the ability to place the rear with accuracy and precision is huge.
I can't wait until we get the AWD functional so I can test out that rear bar with some push from the rear wheels.
I'm definitely looking forward to getting the rest of the suspension bushings installed to the front of the vehicle!

If you've been looking for a way to really wake up your CC, I highly recommend the entirety of SuperPro's suspension products.


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## oidoglr (Jan 26, 2009)

What are your thoughts on the viability of a 02M 6MT swap into an '09 3.6 4motion CC?


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

oidoglr said:


> What are your thoughts on the viability of a 02M 6MT swap into an '09 3.6 4motion CC?


That swap is very do-able. All you really should need is a R32 02M and clutch/flywheel setup. 
Don't quote me on this, but you'll probably have to do something with the brake system since it shares the same reservoir as the clutch slave cylinder.


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## flipflp (Dec 10, 2012)

Ugh this thread is a killer! A white CC getting the same treatment my dream CC is getting on paper, but in real life. Envious for sure, can't wait to see it come together. Great work going on here, congrats!


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## iMod.:R (Nov 14, 2005)

Any updates Charles? Is there any stuff you guys are still sorting out? My AWD works now however the ABS does not. Did you guys have that issue also? I know LouR32 did and I'm not sure if he sorted his yet.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

iMod.:R said:


> Any updates Charles? Is there any stuff you guys are still sorting out? My AWD works now however the ABS does not. Did you guys have that issue also? I know LouR32 did and I'm not sure if he sorted his yet.


Sadly I haven't had as much time to work on the swap as of late since we've been in SOWO prep mode. 
That and the prop shaft I acquired was for an '07 Passat 3.6 4motion, so there was a fitment issue there.
I've got something special planned to fix that issue, but I'll divulge more on that when I know a bit more.

Since coming to the conclusion that I am going to take this car pretty far down the track car route, our plans have shifted a bit, but more for the handling side of things.
We're looking into having a set of custom 5x112 18x10.5" Enkeis either made or have the 5x114 ones re-drilled.
Either way, the point is to get some really beefy rubber under the widebody conversion being made to the car.

Also, since I've started this swap I've been getting bad thoughts about getting a 2.5 Rabbit and converting it to AWD as well.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

So sorry for the lack of updates. SOWO was a blast, but working that show wears you out a bit.

Here's a quick teaser of the custom exhaust. I should be getting some more video of the car soon with a hard launch.


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## joenelson7687 (May 8, 2015)

Holy hell that sounds amazing:thumbup:


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## ascarbo27 (Mar 24, 2015)

sounds great!


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## ascarbo27 (Mar 24, 2015)

am i reading the website right, apr tune stage 1 for 149? if so can i ship my ecu and pay yall tomorrow lol


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

joenelson7687 said:


> Holy hell that sounds amazing:thumbup:





ascarbo27 said:


> sounds great!


Thanks guys! :beer:



ascarbo27 said:


> am i reading the website right, apr tune stage 1 for 149? if so can i ship my ecu and pay yall tomorrow lol


Unfortunately I think the deal is that you pay $149 (the normal price for adding a program) over the price of a standard tune and get all the programs.


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## Jscharff (Dec 14, 2014)

ascarbo27 said:


> am i reading the website right, apr tune stage 1 for 149? if so can i ship my ecu and pay yall tomorrow lol


yea this is a $149 for all the programs sale, but price of tune still remains at $599 from what ive read.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

Man it's been forever since I've updated this thread.
My side business (small business marketing consulting and web design) has kept my time to work on this project to a minimum.
Hopefully I should have some updates regarding the 4motion swap status later this week.

Until then, here's the latest part to be added to this build. 
I present to you, the glorious *Integrated Engineering 2.0T Intake Manifold*.
































































If you'd like some higher resolution pics of the manifold, check out my Flickr album.
I should be getting some more pics this week.

I've been waiting so patiently for this to get here, I desperately wanted to install it when it arrived on Friday, but the 95* weather with 100% humidity would have been horrible for a before and after dyno run.
(I do a before and after for pretty much every performance part I install)
Needless to say, the weather is looking ok this week, so I should have some install pics and dyno for you guys this week.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

Please provide updates... I am on the fence about turning mine into a 4mo. I am checking this thread often.

The IE manifold is a bute! I would luv to see a k04 before and after dyno :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

jspirate said:


> Please provide updates... I am on the fence about turning mine into a 4mo. I am checking this thread often.
> 
> The IE manifold is a bute! I would luv to see a k04 before and after dyno :thumbup:


Unfortunately my dyno is going to be with the stock turbo. 
At least this will let some people see the results of installing this manifold on a highly modified stock turbo TSI.
I'm actually a little curious to see what the results are going to be, I have an idea, but only the dyno will truly tell.
I might be installing a K04 onto the car while I wait for the big turbo setup, but that will depend on where my funds go at this point.
I'm pretty set on installing a set of Bilstein PSS10 coilovers to the car before the next track event, but I might just blow some more money on her to get more power for the moment.


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*Just seen this _ have some Questuions . .*

1. Are these CNC'd _ Inside Unit at say the Exit and Entrance Points or just the Opening ?

2. Seeing the Flapper is Gone _ how is the Tune taking care of Codes _ other then just Deleting them .. in other words any Passing on Carb - or - ( Inspection Station Sniffers ) ?

3. seeing this Is Not smoother on the inside then Phenolic Manifold , will these be offer with Extrude Honing ?

4. Heat Transfer - How is that Being Addressed ? ( Will Manifold Kit be Including ) Heat Stop Spacer 3/8" 

Thanks for all Up Dates and Info . .


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

EngTech1 said:


> 1. Are these CNC'd _ Inside Unit at say the Exit and Entrance Points or just the Opening ?
> 
> 2. Seeing the Flapper is Gone _ how is the Tune taking care of Codes _ other then just Deleting them .. in other words any Passing on Carb - or - ( Inspection Station Sniffers ) ?
> 
> ...


Great questions! I've only spent a little time with these manifolds, but I'll try to answer everything to the best of my knowledge.

1. These manifolds are completely cast with only the cylinder head end using CNC machining as far as I can tell.

2. It depends on who your tuner is. Some aren't supporting this manifold, but it's just a matter of turning off the CEL for basic tunes
In order to get proper gains, you will need a tune that is optimized for the increased volume and flow capabilities.

3. You would have to ask Integrated if they can offer extrude honing on these, though I think the real benefit from these manifolds is the increase in volume (both runners and plenum).

4. The manifold does not include a heat stop spacer in the packaging. 
I personally haven't messed with this very much on the 2.0T, but I know that using a phenolic spacer on a 1.8T with the metal manifold did help a bit. 
You'd have to check with Integrated Engineering to see about them offering a spacer in the future.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

What did you do for front axles?

What specifically gave you issues with the center driveshaft?


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## midnightbluegli (Apr 5, 2004)

Sub'd This is definitely on my future projects list once my car is paid off free and clear.


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## vw4life4886 (Oct 22, 2013)

My halidex rear diff has bearings bad internally and I have 95k on my vr6 cc. Where did you get the halidex rear diff and how much was it.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

RaraK69 said:


> What did you do for front axles?
> 
> What specifically gave you issues with the center driveshaft?


The driver side axle is still the same on FWD and AWD 6spd models. 
For the passenger side axle, you'll need the one off of a Golf R. (if you're using a DSG setup, there are many more axles to choose from)
Fun fact of the day, the axle that the Golf R uses is a 3C0 part number, which you guessed it, is a B6 Passat/CC part number.
The part originated on the only 4 cylinder manual B6 vehicles that VW produced: the TDI 4motion Passat & CC.

As for my prop shaft issues, we thought it was the wrong one, but it turned out to just be general stupidity on my part.



midnightbluegli said:


> Sub'd This is definitely on my future projects list once my car is paid off free and clear.


I normally don't recommend swaps like this to people, but if you have access to a lift, proper tools and all of the correct parts, it's really not that bad as far as swaps go.



vw4life4886 said:


> My halidex rear diff has bearings bad internally and I have 95k on my vr6 cc. Where did you get the halidex rear diff and how much was it.


Personally I use Autohaas for all the used parts (such as my rear haldex differential assembly) that I've purchased for this swap. 
I'd have to look up the exact price, but it was probably around $400 for the diff shipped to me.


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## iMod.:R (Nov 14, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> I normally don't recommend swaps like this to people, but if you have access to a lift, proper tools and all of the correct parts, it's really not that bad as far as swaps go..


This is funny Chuck after I just posted I decided to see how your 4-Mo swap was going also and we both said "I don't recommend doing these swaps" after all the time I've lost out on enjoying my car I have to say I 1000% agree. A swap like this takes ultra deep pockets and resources to complete in one swell foop. Otherwise it will take a while to perfect the minute details as Im sure you know. Im still very excited for your build. Keep it up man! :thumbup::beer:


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

iMod.:R said:


> This is funny Chuck after I just posted I decided to see how your 4-Mo swap was going also and we both said "I don't recommend doing these swaps" after all the time I've lost out on enjoying my car I have to say I 1000% agree. A swap like this takes ultra deep pockets and resources to complete in one swell foop. Otherwise it will take a while to perfect the minute details as Im sure you know. Im still very excited for your build. Keep it up man! :thumbup::beer:


Thanks dude! :thumbup:

I'm hoping to have the swap finished by H2Oi so I can cruise around, though I'm going to have to sadly put a muffler on it since it's just way to loud to not get ticketed in Ocean City.
That being said, I'll probably just put a V-Banded section in right before the rear axle and throw a Borla muffler there.
Hopefully I'll be posting up some more progress later this week as I tear down the transmission to put the LSD in and install the transfer case.

I kinda just want to be finished this part of the build so I can focus on having my buddy Tim @ KDI Customs start on the custom interior work so it can be ready for show season next year.

Those of you that attend the east coast shows might recognize his signature work as he's done the interior work for most of the winners of a lot of shows lately.

Pic of the rear seat of a buddies' 20th that he did earlier this year.

3P0A8930 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

Here's the interior that he did for my co-worker Mike in his PVW featured 2003 GLI:









And here's a pic of another Mk4 interior he did.









I'd also really, really, really like to move on to getting my R Line bumper painted and the widebody kit done, but that's more than likely going to get finished over the winter.

As much as I love doing performance mods, at the end of the day, the CC is just such a beautiful car with amazing body lines, so I can't wait to enhance it's already great looks!

And yes, despite the cosmetic mods, this car is being built to be driven, and hard. Why else would I sink all this time and money into it and have it sit around? :screwy:


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

To compliment the already great looking CC interior and improve the shifter feel, I went ahead and installed a BFI shift knob.



















The weight on this thing is perfect. The throw now feels about as close to perfect as it could get. :thumbup::thumbup:


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## vwb5t (Jun 23, 2008)

Do you have the 4-motoin working yet? just wondering how the electronics part of it went.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

vwb5t said:


> Do you have the 4-motoin working yet? just wondering how the electronics part of it went.


Sadly I haven't had the time to work on this project lately. 
With H2Oi (and most of the show season) thankfully behind me I should be able to re-focus in on the build. 
I have 99.5% of the parts needed to finish the 4motion conversion (including most of the Haldex harness), so hopefully I can motivate myself to get off my butt and work on it again. :beer:


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## vwb5t (Jun 23, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Sadly I haven't had the time to work on this project lately.
> With H2Oi (and most of the show season) thankfully behind me I should be able to re-focus in on the build.
> I have 99.5% of the parts needed to finish the 4motion conversion (including most of the Haldex harness), so hopefully I can motivate myself to get off my butt and work on it again. :beer:


cool cant wait to see it done, was originally going to sell the CC and get a new Golf R but now im thinking save some money and swap the CC to AWD. do you have a part number for the AWD transfer case you bolted to the 6-speed?


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

vwb5t said:


> cool cant wait to see it done, was originally going to sell the CC and get a new Golf R but now im thinking save some money and swap the CC to AWD. do you have a part number for the AWD transfer case you bolted to the 6-speed?


I don't have it off the top of my head unfortunately, but I do have the case out right now. I'll try and see if I can't get you the part number.
It's important to note that you can use pretty much any 2.0T transfer case (aside from the tiguan units, those are made to adapt to an automatic and might not work).
Also, from doing some research, as far as myself and the rest of the technicians at the shop have found out, only pre-2010 VW 02Q transmissions have the mount holes.
We've looked at a few Mk6s that have come into the shop and just about all of them do not have provisions to mount the transfer case.
Our guess is that VW originally just used the same cast for that side of the case to cut down on production costs, but later they made a new cast without the provisions.


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## vwb5t (Jun 23, 2008)

Good to know thanks, have to see what i can find it might be easier to get a pre 2010 tranny and import just the transfer case to cut down on shipping costs if i cant find the transfer case state side.


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## flipflp (Dec 10, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I don't have it off the top of my head unfortunately, but I do have the case out right now. I'll try and see if I can't get you the part number.
> It's important to note that you can use pretty much any 2.0T transfer case (aside from the tiguan units, those are made to adapt to an automatic and might not work).
> Also, from doing some research, as far as myself and the rest of the technicians at the shop have found out, only pre-2010 VW 02Q transmissions have the mount holes.
> We've looked at a few Mk6s that have come into the shop and just about all of them do not have provisions to mount the transfer case.
> Our guess is that VW originally just used the same cast for that side of the case to cut down on production costs, but later they made a new cast without the provisions.


Well that sorta puts a damper in me doing this on my car. Aside from the fact you need to rip the trans apart to swap the diff for the angle drive, this means I couldn't use my current DSG as well. Maybe that's for the better anyway haha.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

flipflp said:


> Well that sorta puts a damper in me doing this on my car. Aside from the fact you need to rip the trans apart to swap the diff for the angle drive, this means I couldn't use my current DSG as well. Maybe that's for the better anyway haha.


Yeah, DSG is a whole different beast, especially the electronics side of things. 
With the manual trans you are simply changing where the power physically is being routed and the only change with the electronics is wiring in the Haldex harness (well and the second fuel level sender for the 3.6 fuel tank too) and the associated change in programming to turn on Haldex communication.


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## flipflp (Dec 10, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Yeah, DSG is a whole different beast, especially the electronics side of things.
> With the manual trans you are simply changing where the power physically is being routed and the only change with the electronics is wiring in the Haldex harness (well and the second fuel level sender for the 3.6 fuel tank too) and the associated change in programming to turn on Haldex communication.


Right, though there are CCs that are AWD and DSG, so the programming shouldn't be impossible, but I agree it adds a layer for sure. Aside from the overall cost and lack of a work shop, the big thing for me was being able to modify my current trouble free transmission versus sourcing another unit +shipping +wear/tear etc.

Thanks for putting all of this info out there!


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

flipflp said:


> Right, though there are CCs that are AWD and DSG, so the programming shouldn't be impossible, but I agree it adds a layer for sure. Aside from the overall cost and lack of a work shop, the big thing for me was being able to modify my current trouble free transmission versus sourcing another unit +shipping +wear/tear etc.
> 
> Thanks for putting all of this info out there!


There is "a" AWD DSG 2.0T TSI CC out there, and that is Jason's. VW never built any 2.0T TSI 4motion models in either manual or DSG. All of the 3.6 cars are true automatic tiptronic transmissions.
They did build a few TDI 4motion vehicles with DSG however. Though I don't think you can use their ECUs on the 2.0T.

You are correct in the modifying your existing transmission being the biggest issue you will face. I believe Jason ended up getting a complete AWD DSG transmission for his swap.
As long as you can get your current ECU programmed to report as being AWD (and if your build date is early enough to fall under the earlier ABS setup) getting the Haldex to fully function isn't that bad.


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## flipflp (Dec 10, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> There is "a" AWD DSG 2.0T TSI CC out there, and that is Jason's. VW never built any 2.0T TSI 4motion models in either manual or DSG. All of the 3.6 cars are true automatic tiptronic transmissions.
> They did build a few TDI 4motion vehicles with DSG however. Though I don't think you can use their ECUs on the 2.0T.
> 
> You are correct in the modifying your existing transmission being the biggest issue you will face. I believe Jason ended up getting a complete AWD DSG transmission for his swap.
> As long as you can get your current ECU programmed to report as being AWD (and if your build date is early enough to fall under the earlier ABS setup) getting the Haldex to fully function isn't that bad.


I think I was under the assumption that the ECU and TCUs communication would be fine using the TDI 4Mo as an example, but I did forget about the issues Jason has had/is having getting everything working. He is a facelift car so I think that made most of his troubles. Not sure if my 2012 would go under the radar or not.


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## flipflp (Dec 10, 2012)

Charles just a quick Q because I've noticed you're running some IE parts, have you decided on an intercooler or did I miss that install earlier in this thread? I've had my eye on the IE FDS intercooler but I haven't seen anyone install it on a CC. The website notes a modified inlet pipe is needed, any knowledge about that bit?


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

flipflp said:


> Charles just a quick Q because I've noticed you're running some IE parts, have you decided on an intercooler or did I miss that install earlier in this thread? I've had my eye on the IE FDS intercooler but I haven't seen anyone install it on a CC. The website notes a modified inlet pipe is needed, any knowledge about that bit?


I do have the Integrated Engineering FDS intercooler on my car actually. I never had to do any modifications to install it, but I do have the Forge Motorsport discharge and throttle body pipes installed so that might be why.


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## flipflp (Dec 10, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I do have the Integrated Engineering FDS intercooler on my car actually. I never had to do any modifications to install it, but I do have the Forge Motorsport discharge and throttle body pipes installed so that might be why.


Ah excellent, I think it's a great piece. I'm sure when the time comes IE will be able to assist if something special is needed. Thanks for the response!


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## 16v_Scoooby_Snack (Jul 27, 2008)

This is something I had been curious of ever since owning my cc. Knowing that A) the cc had a factory 4motion option and B) the cc shares so many components with other vw/audi products, I had a pipe dream just like some others that an awd 2.0t cc could be realistically possible.

Very curious to hear about any updates to this project from NGP!


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

16v_Scoooby_Snack said:


> This is something I had been curious of ever since owning my cc. Knowing that A) the cc had a factory 4motion option and B) the cc shares so many components with other vw/audi products, I had a pipe dream just like some others that an awd 2.0t cc could be realistically possible.
> 
> Very curious to hear about any updates to this project from NGP!


You're in luck then! Thanks to my rear main seal blowing out yesterday, I'm moving forward with the build again starting tonight.
Basically, since I have to pull the trans for the seal, I figured I might as well go ahead and install my Peloquin AWD limited slip differential and finish up converting my manual trans to AWD.

After that I just need to do the wiring and I should hopefully have the AWD functioning before the first snow of the year!


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

Trans is out. The Peloquins high torque AWD limited slip differential is being installed right now. 

3P0A6901 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

3P0A6904 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

3P0A6929 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

3P0A6938 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

3P0A6940 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

3P0A6950 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr


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## 16v_Scoooby_Snack (Jul 27, 2008)

Oh, my! 
Your PP looks magnificent!


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

16v_Scoooby_Snack said:


> Oh, my!
> Your PP looks magnificent!


Thanks!

I should have some more pics to post up tonight. We're getting ready to install some of the new front suspension components.


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## VirgoPHD (Dec 12, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> *If you enjoy modding your car as much as I do, this thread is for you. If you love performance, handling, track days and twisty back roads, this thread is also for you. In this thread I'll give you an inside look at New German Performance, how we work, how we play, and why we love to do what we do.*
> 
> Have you ever had an idea, some really crazy idea of how you'd like to build your car? Like, sky's the limit kind of big. Like you could throw all the OEM parts in the bin at it, all the performance parts you you could think of. Build your car the way you thought it was mean't to be.
> 
> ...


Which subframe are you using? I have a 012 and was wondering if I could use a tiguan, passat or cc 3.2 rear subrame


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## VirgoPHD (Dec 12, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> *If you enjoy modding your car as much as I do, this thread is for you. If you love performance, handling, track days and twisty back roads, this thread is also for you. In this thread I'll give you an inside look at New German Performance, how we work, how we play, and why we love to do what we do.*
> 
> Have you ever had an idea, some really crazy idea of how you'd like to build your car? Like, sky's the limit kind of big. Like you could throw all the OEM parts in the bin at it, all the performance parts you you could think of. Build your car the way you thought it was mean't to be.
> 
> ...


Which subframe are you using? I have a 012 and was wondering if I could use a tiguan, passat or cc 3.2 rear subrame.


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## flipflp (Dec 10, 2012)

Sweet Jesus you've quoted the whole massive first post to ask a question, and then double posted it. There has to be an award for that.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

VirgoPHD said:


> Which subframe are you using? I have a 012 and was wondering if I could use a tiguan, passat or cc 3.2 rear subrame.


The Tiguan, Passat and CC 4motion all use the same rear subframe, so any of those will work just fine.

Updates:

Since my rear main seal was blown, we decided to try out a Gen 3 TSI rear main seal. For those unfamiliar with the Gen 1 TSI rear main seal, it uses a really crappy design compared to previous VW 4 cylinder models.

The Gen 3 TSI uses a similar design. However VW flipped the crank seal around the other way. Please DO NOT try this on your own car just yet. We have yet to test this out in the real world.

Rear main seal removed (this is before we cleaned off the block):

3P0A7016 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

Gen3 TSI rear main seal:

3P0A7021 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

Unfortunately I had to run into my office at this point and answer a phone call and didn't get a chance to snap a pic of the cleaned block or the new rear main seal installed before the flywheel was re-installed. :banghead:

Everything should be ok since it all seals up to the crankshaft just fine, I just don't want anyone to try this and have a major failure.
I'll keep you guys updated as to whether this newer seal design works properly or not.

24mm SuperPro AWD solid adjustable front swaybar:

3P0A7033 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

Compared to the stock swaybar:

3P0A7042 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

What the pic doesn't show you is just how much heavier duty the SuperPro bar is. Just picking them up one after the other is all you'll need, the SuperPro 24mm front swaybar is a beefcake and should compliment the 26mm bar we installed to the rear.
As a side note, we keep all of these great SuperPro products in stock and ready to ship at NGP Racing, you won't find a faster way to get these parts to your door if you live on the east coast.

Lubing up the new SuperPro polyurethane swaybar bushings:

3P0A7044 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

Swaybar installed:

3P0A7055 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

3P0A7064 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

If you guys remember way back when the swap was started, we replaced all of the factory rear suspension bushings with SuperPro's track/fast road bushings. 
I've had a pair of their front bracket bushings installed for about two years now and loved how much more responsive they make the car. 
I'll be replacing those 70k street bushings with these 90k track/fast road anti-lift bracket bushings and the front forward bushings:

3P0A7001 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

3P0A6997 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

We'll also be installing SuperPro's polyurethane torque arm insert as well:

3P0A7002 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

Those interested in replacing all of the bushings in their own car can either find them individually or as a complete master kit (what we used for my car) on our webstore.
I'm more than happy to answer any questions anyone has about these great SuperPro products, please don't hesitate to ask!


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

16v_Scoooby_Snack said:


> Your PP looks magnificent!


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

snobrdrdan said:


>


PP = Post Processing in the photography world. I'm assuming that's what he mean't by that. However I could be wrong and he has access to some pics I don't know about? :laugh:

On another note, I completely forgot to point out another important part of this swap, the passenger side axle.

If you look in this pic:

3P0A6901 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

The axle clearly goes right up to the trans, as it should since that is a normal FWD 2.0T axle.

In this pic:

3P0A7055 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

The axle barely meets up to where the control arm attaches to the subframe. There's good reason for that, since it's a genuine Passat R36 passenger side axle.

I got lucky/unlucky when looking for a Golf R passenger side axle on eBay and for some reason there were none to be found at all! 
However, after searching some more I came across the Passat R36 axle on the German eBay. Since the price was pretty decent ($150 + $40 S/H) and the fact that it's a nice little conversation piece, I bought it.

Those looking to do a 4motion swap for themselves can also use the passenger side axle off of a Golf R, Audi TT Quattro, Audi A3 Quattro or a CC/Passat 4motion TDI (only found in Europe and the only 4 cylinder CC with AWD produced).
It doesn't matter if it's DSG or manual either, they all use the same transfer case connection. DO NOT source a Passat/CC 3.6 4motion axle. They all use automatic transmissions and will not work.
The Passat R36 is different because they only came in DSG, since it was mean't to be a performance model and VW wanted to also advertise the DSG system that was fairly new at the time.


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## VirgoPHD (Dec 12, 2014)

Thanks for the response


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

VirgoPHD said:


> Thanks for the response
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No problem, anytime.

Update:

Differential is installed into the transmission!


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## VirgoPHD (Dec 12, 2014)

My bad work PC was acting up


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Charles, really enjoying the thread. Please keep us posted on the rear main seal... I'm doing a bottom-end rebuild in March and would love to incorporate this if it proves to be more reliable than the stock one.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

npace said:


> Charles, really enjoying the thread. Please keep us posted on the rear main seal... I'm doing a bottom-end rebuild in March and would love to incorporate this if it proves to be more reliable than the stock one.


Will do! Unfortunately I was a little too busy with side work to do anything to the car last night, but I should have some updates later tonight after we put the newly converted to AWD transmission into the car. :beer:


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## flipflp (Dec 10, 2012)

Loving the progress!

To put my mind to rest, aside from iMods build has anyone spoken to someone who successfully converted to AWD on a Gen 1 (preface lift) CC with a DSG transmission? Would that be like coding for an R36?


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

flipflp said:


> Loving the progress!
> 
> To put my mind to rest, aside from iMods build has anyone spoken to someone who successfully converted to AWD on a Gen 1 (preface lift) CC with a DSG transmission? Would that be like coding for an R36?


To my knowledge he's the only one that has attempted the conversion on a DSG. I know you'd be able to connect to the Haldex system and communicate with it. It's the whole DSG thing that throws a wrench into it however.
One of my co-workers is toying around with the idea of changing out the automatic transmission in his B6 Passat 4motion wagon to a DSG, which has been done before.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Love the build. Tons and tons of rly useful info is in this thread as well, tyvm. 

Stock shift forks, though? Are they still brass + rivets?


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Love the build. Tons and tons of rly useful info is in this thread as well, tyvm.
> 
> Stock shift forks, though? Are they still brass + rivets?


Thanks!

As for the shift forks, I know that it's somewhat popular for people to upgrade them to the steel ones. 
However, there isn't a single person working at NGP that has ever had an issue with the brass units that come in the 02M/02Q to date.
Even in terms of customer cars, in the seven years I've worked here, I've personally only seen two 02M vehicles that had broken them, and both were on cars that were heavily drag raced all of the time.
How they hold up has to do with the the driver, how they are shifting, and what they are using the car for. 
They don't typically fail prematurely despite what some people believe. That tranny has literally just shy of 100k on it and has no signs of wear or damage to the forks.

As for updates to the build, I had really hoped that the transmission was going to go in tonight.
However, we received the wrong output flange seal for the transfer case side of the transmission. :banghead:
I have another on order, but it of course won't be here until tomorrow.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

Transmission is back in the car and everything fits up like it was meant to be AWD in the first place. 

I did manage to get a few pics; I'll try to have them posted at some point today. Now all we have to do is finish the wiring, put the prop shaft in and play with the ECU a bit.

Still no snow here just yet. Hoping that we get everything working before it does though.


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## VirgoPHD (Dec 12, 2014)

I LOVE THIS POST !!!
Not to be all emotional and stuff but thank you Charles. 

I will be following in your foot steps. I think I'll do this before any major motor work.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

VirgoPHD said:


> I LOVE THIS POST !!!
> Not to be all emotional and stuff but thank you Charles.
> 
> I will be following in your foot steps. I think I'll do this before any major motor work.
> ...


You're most welcome! I'm just another enthusiast building my car the way I want it to be built. :beer:

I know I've been slacking on the updates a bit this week, but I should be able to make quite a bit of headway tonight.
It's gonna be a late night in the shop, that's for sure.


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## VirgoPHD (Dec 12, 2014)

I wish I could be there watching live


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Wish I could be there wrenching on it.... I love this stuff


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

VirgoPHD said:


> I wish I could be there watching live





24vGTiVR6 said:


> Wish I could be there wrenching on it.... I love this stuff


Glad you guys are liking the project!

We were at the shop working on it pretty late last night, kinda took a bit of a breather today.
I was hoping to get more of the swap done, but my leaking lower timing chain cover took precedence.
Those of you familiar with replacing the lower timing chain tensioner know that getting to that cover to replace it can take a bit of time.

I did run into a minor snag however. While the transmission and transfer case bolts together perfectly, I ordered the incorrect bracket that secures the transfer case to the back of the engine block.
Apparently the VAG parts system does not have an accurate parts listing for the 4 cylinder 2.0T 6spd manual transmission. 
I looked up the bracket that would be used (according to ETKA) on a 2009-2013 Audi TT 2.0T TFSI (it's the closest thing to a 2.0T TSI AWD vehicle I could think of)
Even though it says that it should work, the upper bolt hole on the bracket that I ordered does not match up.
I should have the correct bracket hopefully by next week. Ahh, the joys of finding out what doesn't work the hard way, always fun. 

I promise to upload some of the pics tomorrow morning. Just trying to relax a bit tonight.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

New pics:

Passenger side axle that you'll need if doing this swap yourself. As you can see from the label, you can find this axle on a Golf R in the US.

3P0A7503 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

Figured I'd throw up a good pic of the transfer case before we installed it to the car.

3P0A7390 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

SuperPro polyurethane torque arm insert installed.

3P0A7447 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

AWD transfer case installed to transmission.

3P0A7453 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

A closer look at it. The empty bolt hole closer to the left is one of the points to which the support bracket I am now wating on is bolted to.

3P0A7459 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

As always, I prefer to use high quality Liqui Moly fluids where I can. I've been using their oil, gear lube and additives as long as I've owned the car and don't plan on changing that anytime soon.
I've used several different gear lubes in my many VWs over the years, and I've definitely found a favorite with Liqui Moly's GL4+ gear oil. If you're looking to improve your gear changes under all weather conditions, I highly recommend it.

3P0A7474 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

New lower timing chain cover. I made the mistake of trying to re-use my old one when the timing chain tensioner was replaced last year. Fortunately it only had very slow leak (about a pint every month and a half), but I decided now was as good a time as any to replace it.

3P0A7488 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

My co-worker and good friend Joey applying sealant to the cover. He's been a huge, huge help in this whole swap. Couldn't do it without him!

3P0A7557 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

Old lower timing chain cover removed.

3P0A7507 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

Closer look at the chains and guides. I know it sounds like I'm being a sales guy when it comes to pitching the Liqui Moly products, but their MOS2 additive does wonders for keeping deposits from building up on the guides. I can't recommend using it in a TSI engine enough!

3P0A7533 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

If I'm reading this right, you were able to bolt the AWD transfer case directly to the stock transmission. So there's no need for a different transmission, is that right?


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

npace said:


> If I'm reading this right, you were able to bolt the AWD transfer case directly to the stock transmission. So there's no need for a different transmission, is that right?


There are a few caveats to this. For one, as far as I know you can only do this on a manual transmission 1st gen CC. I have yet to find a facelifted CC that has a manual transmission case with the threaded bolt holes.
I've looked at several different VWs with the 02Q since finding this out, and the split seems to be a build date up to some point in 2010. This is true of Mk5/Mk6/A3/TTs that use the same transmission.
If you have DSG, you cannot do this as far as I know, since the programming isn't setup for AWD, and must communicate properly with the ABS/Haldex system.

The other major component that you'll need is an AWD differential (the one that actually lives in the transmission). 
I went over this on the first page:

FWD limited slip differential (with bearing and ring gear installed):









AWD limited slip diff:









AWD transfer case shaft:









Closeup on the inner splines:









Please note that you don't actually need a limited slip differential, you can use one out of an AWD 02Q, but if you're already in there, you might as well put one in.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

Perhaps this will help:

FWD 02Q differential breakdown:










AWD 02Q differential breakdown:










Please note that the VW diagrams use a generic image for the differentials, hence why they look the same.
But the jist of it is that the transmissions both use the same overall design. 
The only other part I had to change on mine was the output flange seal on the passenger side, which fits further inside the case as opposed to the normal output flange seal which mounts flush with the face of the case.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

That helps a lot, thanks. I have an AWD car with DSG, and I'm thinking of swapping to manual. What scares me the most isn't installing a transmission and pedal box, but it's getting the programming right.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

npace said:


> That helps a lot, thanks. I have an AWD car with DSG, and I'm thinking of swapping to manual. What scares me the most isn't installing a transmission and pedal box, but it's getting the programming right.


You'd be surprised then. Your ECU should be fine for use on a manual transmission vehicle. All you have to do is get it recoded to say it has a manual transmission.
You're already half way there since the ECU is already coded for use with AWD. I would assume that the ABS system is the same between a DSG and a manual car.
However, we never got those in a manual in the US (I wanted one so badly!), so it's difficult to say for certain. 
But, since VW/Audi likes to use the same components between certain platforms (e.g. Golf R, Audi TT, etc) it's a fairly safe bet that you wouldn't have too much difficulty doing that swap.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

*Quick Update:*

The transmission and front drivetrain are all installed and good to go. All of the physical parts from the swap are installed to the car now except the driveshaft (forgot to order the hardware to attach it).
I had needed to drive her back home due to the blizzard, so I've been having fun with the limited slip in the snow (though I still wish it was AWD :banghead.

3P0A7774 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

It did finally stop snowing sometime in Saturday night and the next day was way nicer (just with about 3 feet of snow on everything).

3P0A7778 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

3P0A7864 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

3P0A7818 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

3P0A7883 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

*Back to the car:*

The front 24mm solid SuperPro bar feels amazing, it compliments the 26mm solid SuperPro rear bar perfectly. 
On the softer setting for now, which seems to give the car the perfect amount of response and stability. 
The new SuperPro front control arm bushings have given the front end of the car a great degree of control. Turn in notably sharper.
As one of my co-worker said after getting back from riding in the car during lunch, "There is virtually no body roll at all, it just feels like you can keep pushing it confidently." 
I'm still a firm believer that the very stiff B6 (PQ46) chassis is one of the best VW has built to date. They always respond very positively to suspension modifications.

I'll grab some pics of everything installed once the driveshaft hardware arrives. Now to just wire everything up and we should hopefully have working AWD by the end of the week. :beer:


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## mcseforsale (Jun 5, 2011)

I do not miss home (grew up in Manchester, Ct.). It's beautiful, but MAN!

Car is stunning.

AJ


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## atrociousa3 (Aug 6, 2007)

Would a Passat saddle tank fit an mkv golf?


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

mcseforsale said:


> I do not miss home (grew up in Manchester, Ct.). It's beautiful, but MAN!
> 
> Car is stunning.
> 
> AJ


Thanks!



atrociousa3 said:


> Would a Passat saddle tank fit an mkv golf?


I'm fairly positive that it won't work. The B6 body is different enough from the mkv body that I can't say for certain what is compatible between them
However, your best bet would be to get a tank from a Mk5 R32 or a Mk6 Golf R. The Mk2 Audi TT and Audi A3 8P chassis would probably work as well.


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## Devilz (Feb 28, 2011)

> We ended up removing all the the weak puny stock rubber bushings so we could install these beautiful things from SuperPro:


Can you advise which is which as I need to change few bushes on mine as well.

Thanks


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## VirgoPHD (Dec 12, 2014)

Same here ^^


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

Devilz said:


> Can you advise which is which as I need to change few bushes on mine as well.
> 
> Thanks





VirgoPHD said:


> Same here ^^
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You guys are in luck since we're putting all SuperPro on sale and adding free ground shipping as well!

The SuperPro poly bushings can be purchased as a master kit as I've used on this build or individually (see below). 

*Street Master Kit*



*Race Master Kit*


*Front control arm bracket bushings*

These are available in either standard geometry fitment:



or as antilift fitment:



It really depends on what you are doing with the car. Both will greatly improve turn-in and overall reaction, however the anti-lift geometry bushings will 
give you better tire grip and improve overall traction.

Front control arm forward bushings:



These are the other bushings on the front control arms. I highly recommend replacing these along with the bracket bushings for a huge improvement in turn-in feel and steering response.

*Rear end bushings*

There are many, many, many bushings in the rear suspension of the B6/Mk5/Mk6 platforms. While you can replace them individually, I highly recommend replacing them all at once because of how they interact together.
However, if you are only replacing individual ones, I'd recommend the following:

Rear main control arm inner bushings:



Rear main control arm outer bushings:



Rear upper trailing arm bushings:



The rear upper trailing arm bushings connect the chassis of the vehicle to the rear suspension. These will remove a significant amount of "slop" from the rear suspension.
However, please keep in mind that installing these particular bushings will increase NVH, especially in colder weather. 
Mine make a little noise when it is below freezing, nothing major, but you can hear it when the stereo is off when making sharp turns.

For those wondering, the 70K durometer is recommended for use for most daily driven cars. 
While I do have the race durometer master kit on my car and I don't find it to be all that noisy, this really does vary from person to person.
I just don't want someone to install some of these bushings and get increased NVH because they were unaware of the potential changes.
However, I can tell you that if you value handling above all else, installing the SuperPro bushings will leave a huge grin on your face every time that you drive your car.


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## coppertone (May 27, 2006)

W
O
W is all that I can say about this great build....


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

coppertone said:


> W
> O
> W is all that I can say about this great build....


Thanks!

Sorry for the lack of updates, had a few outside complications arise, but I'm trying to stay focused on the build as much as I possibly can though!

These came in from VW today.










The last final pieces of hardware, the prop shaft bolts. After installing the prop shaft, all that will be left is wiring and coding. 
Hopefully not much longer before working 4motion!


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## coppertone (May 27, 2006)

I see that I'm going yo have to do a road trip, just to be able to see this in action.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

coppertone said:


> I see that I'm going yo have to do a road trip, just to be able to see this in action.


Feel free to stop on by. I'll even give you a drive in it once it's all done. :beer:

****Updates****

Now that all of the physical parts are on the car, we're putting the finishing touches on the harness that goes from the rear of the car to the front.

I've also taken the time to update the parts list for those that are looking to do the swap as well. There are more than likely a few items missing from the list, but it is much more complete now.

I also realized that I have yet to update the thread with any of the body parts that will be used in this build. I have an R Line front bumper that will be going on the car this spring along with these:























































These are the SRS-Tec widebody front fenders. They add about an inch to each side. Nothing major, but it's enough to make give the car a more aggressive look while also allowing for the use of meatier tires.
I really like these since they are pretty much bolt-on and utilize the factory attachment points and allow you to use factory wheel liners.
I'm still trying to figure how I want to do the rear of the car. I've been playing around with the idea of some DTM style rear arches or bolt-on flares, but we'll see once the time comes to send it to the body shop.
My other plans for the rear of the car include swapping in the facelifted LED tail lights since I prefer that look over the pre-facelift halogen units.


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## coppertone (May 27, 2006)

Thank you for that generous offer as its one that I will take you up on.


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## rallyedude (Feb 22, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Closer look at the chains and guides. I know it sounds like I'm being a sales guy when it comes to pitching the Liqui Moly products, but their MOS2 additive does wonders for keeping deposits from building up on the guides. I can't recommend using it in a TSI engine enough!
> 
> 3P0A7533 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr


 I like your "crank tool" , looks like an outer cv joint nut. Great build , lovin' it!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> So last night we managed to find out that the AWD transfer case bolts right up to the factory FWD 02Q transmission.
> Originally I had thought that you would need to use the clutch housing side of the transmission case to install the transfer case.
> It appears this is not the case, you will need to drill and tap some holes though. You will still also need the AWD differential.


do you have other pics of this, specifically where the mounting holes are, and where you drilled / tapped?


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

rallyedude said:


> I like your "crank tool" , looks like an outer cv joint nut. Great build , lovin' it!


Haha, thanks!



24vGTiVR6 said:


> do you have other pics of this, specifically where the mounting holes are, and where you drilled / tapped?


I'll go through my other pics and see what I can find for you. 
There was no drilling or tapping though, my transmission case came with the holes threaded and ready to go. The transfer case bolted right up after installing the AWD differential to the transmission.
From what I've been researching, VW used the same casing on all Mk5 models, B6 Passat/CC and Mk6 models with build dates through 2010. Models after that have no mounting holes.
I've made it a point to check out just about every 02Q equipped vehicle I see in the shop and so far this theory holds true.

*As for updates...*

I apologize for the lack of updates. My job, side work, and some other family matters have gotten in the way of this build as of late.

Most of the lower dash has been pulled and the harness is just about ready to be installed. I should hopefully have some pics to upload later this week.

I installed a new Eonon head unit to the car last week. Having been stuck with the factory radio for the past few years, this thing is amazing.
It's been since rooted and I've been looking into the possibility of getting an OEM VW backup camera to work with it.

I also hope to be finally getting a nice set of non-OEM 18" wheels that clear the TTRS brakes. 
I know I've pictured a few sets of wheels in this thread before, but the problem is always the same with aftermarket 18" wheels: they just don't fit over the calipers.
I wish it was just a spacing issue. But no, it's the fact that most 18" wheels come down in size on the inner barrel which sits on the "top" of the caliper.










I've since looked into getting a set of Neuspeed RSe10s in 18x9" fitment. Supposedly since these feature OEM measurements, they should clear the calipers just fine.
And at 20.47 lbs apiece, they're lightweight to boot! I should hopefully have a set wrapped in some Michelin Pilot Super Sports by the time it's warm enough to run them.

I'm also still trying to figure out what turbo setup I want to run. One part of me wants to go nuts with it and run a Borg Warner EFR 7163 to make a ton of power (500+ WHP).
But the other part of me knows that I'll never truly use that much power and wants to go with a Loba Motorsports LO400 (it's a heavily modified K04, makes about 400 WHP).
I know most people are going to say "Moar power!" and yes, I typically think that way. On paper, the larger turbo setup makes sense: more power = faster.
However, on the track (circuit type), the EFR only has an advantage on the long straights. The LO400 should spool up about 700 RPM faster than the EFR, and has more torque down low.
Then there's fabrication. The EFR is going to need to have some pipework made, which means more downtime. The LO400 is a bolt-on upgrade, it installs just like a K04.
Either way, the engine is going to be built with Mahle Motorsport pistons and Integrated Engineering rods; I want to be able to rev the crap out of this thing like there's no tomorrow.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


>


Thats a very handsome wheel... did you consider 19s? Or, maybe I missed a previous discussion about this?


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

jspirate said:


> Thats a very handsome wheel... did you consider 19s? Or, maybe I missed a previous discussion about this?



I did actually consider going to a few different 19" wheels including fifteen52 Tarmacs.
Most of my decision of going with 18's stems from the performance aspect. 
Though I will admit, 19's look quite good on the CC.


I used to run a set of 19x8.5" Rotiform BLQs with Falken FK453s for a few years.
While they weren't insanely comfortable, they weren't horrible either. 
The biggest pain with 19's is the track, when you cringe after you hit a rumble strip at 80+ MPH.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

I havent checked this thread in awhile but its crazy you are doing like the same exact thing but CC version as I am, even down to the srs tec fenders lol

Im not gonna do a diff right not though, do you guys by chance have stock 02Q awd diff floating around you would be willing to part with? 

As far as bolting the transfer case right up did you have to change the seal in the bellhousing? I tried holding it up before tearing the trans apart and seemed to stop about a 1/4" short of the bolting flush I think because of the seal and the only thing I have at the shop currently to compare are dsg awd trans which that seal is way different.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7200434-Project-ImpostR-build-thread-(AWD-GTI-Stage-3-project)


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

jettaglx91 said:


> I havent checked this thread in awhile but its crazy you are doing like the same exact thing but CC version as I am, even down to the srs tec fenders lol
> 
> Im not gonna do a diff right not though, do you guys by chance have stock 02Q awd diff floating around you would be willing to part with?
> 
> ...


Good stuff! I love reading build threads. :beer:

As for the seal, anything that was different between a FWD and AWD 02Q I changed to the AWD version. 
If it's the seal that goes into the bell housing and seals the transfer case to the transmission, it should be 02Q409189.


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## coppertone (May 27, 2006)

Can't wait until the completion of this so that I can do a road trip out yo where you are. As it gets closer to completion, I will pm you and maybe you can suggest a nice hotel for me to stay at.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Good stuff! I love reading build threads. :beer:
> 
> As for the seal, anything that was different between a FWD and AWD 02Q I changed to the AWD version.
> If it's the seal that goes into the bell housing and seals the transfer case to the transmission, it should be 02Q409189.



Ok cool that's what I came up with but didn't have one in front of me to check. 

Don't happen to have a stock 02q awd diff floating around do you?


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## MotoGPS (Jul 31, 2014)

*Mounting bracket*

Nice build, could you provide the part number for the support bracket for the transfer case, I am looking for that exact one.


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## coppertone (May 27, 2006)

Of course greedy me, I am looking for any updates lol.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

MotoGPS said:


> Nice build, could you provide the part number for the support bracket for the transfer case, I am looking for that exact one.


I'll have to go through my invoices and see if I can't track that number down. I think it's the one ending in AQ IIRC.



coppertone said:


> Of course greedy me, I am looking for any updates lol.


Haha, and I want to so badly provide some. Unfortunately I have the bad combo of the car being my daily and also having quite a bit of work to do for the business I have on the side.
Physically, the car has all of the AWD components right now. I have the harness finished, all that has to be finished is wiring it into the car. 
The big problem occurs when I need to schedule time after hours at the shop with one of our technicians to be there; it just hasn't been meshing up due to all the projects that we have. 
The wiring isn't extremely extensive, and I can do it myself, but I really, really want it to be perfect, like it came that way from the factory.

That being said, I am crossing my fingers that I'll have her finished by Cult Classic towards the end of June.


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## coppertone (May 27, 2006)

Lol again no worries as its just me being greedy and wanting an excuse to come down that way. I fully understand about wanting it to be on point.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

I completely forgot to update everyone about the new wheel setup. I still need to get some pics of it in the sun now that it's not raining everyday now.

Here's a quick teaser pic though:


3P0A0328 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

They're Neuspeed RSe10 wheels in 18x9" ET45 with Michelin Pilot Supersport tires in 245/40.
It feels so good to get a set of lightweight wheels on the car. It's been far to long since I've had a set of performance wheels on one of my cars.
I really enjoy the satin bronze finish as well. I've always liked that classic white car on bronze wheels, and I feel these look really good on the CC.

For those that are scratching their heads after looking at the wheel gap, if you plan on tracking your car, this is about as low as I would drop it.
To be completely honest though, it's going to have to be raised by another 1/4" since I've found that I can still get it to rub a tiny bit if I load up one of the corners all the way.
If I were running 235 series tires, it wouldn't an issue, but more tire = more grip which I just have to have. 

Granted, the car will be getting a more track oriented set of coilovers with much stiffer shocks later this year, which will eliminate a lot of the suspension travel.


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## coppertone (May 27, 2006)

That's a sharp look right there, I run 18x9 255/40 on my Legacy 2.5 GT Limited. I would have gone 265/35 but it scrapes exiting my driveway as is lol..


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## tsunaria (Mar 24, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> I completely forgot to update everyone about the new wheel setup. I still need to get some pics of it in the sun now that it's not raining everyday now....


Those wheels are righteous, man. Very nice.


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## Runswdogs (Dec 16, 2015)

*Weight makes a huge diff.*

I went from Bridgestone 27lbs 245/40/19 to Contis 23lbs 235/35/19 ...huge difference in weight. Cars much more sprightly. Love the satin bronze.


[email protected] said:


> I completely forgot to update everyone about the new wheel setup. I still need to get some pics of it in the sun now that it's not raining everyday now.
> 
> Here's a quick teaser pic though:
> 
> ...


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

If you're in the area, I highly suggest checking out the Dub Deliverance track event at the new Dominion Raceway on August 6.
We'll be there with full trackside support and a hospitality area, as well as some special sale pricing on parts. 
Yours truly will be there to run a few track sessions in the CC-R, but mostly I will be providing photo coverage during the event.

*More Parts!*

To prepare for the track, I'll be installing a few more goodies to the CC-R this weekend (fingers crossed that we'll have the AWD wiring finished as well).
I'll post up the parts going onto the car later this week as they arrive.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

*First track-day upgrade: NGP Type II Coilovers*










While I've had our Type I coilovers on the car for the past three years and loved every moment of them, I've been itching to upgrade to some stiffer dampers and springs for awhile now.
Our Type II coilovers scratch that itch by providing stiffer twin tube dampers with front damping adjustment, and stiffer linear rate springs to match.
As a side bonus, the Type II coilovers also go significantly lower than our Type I coilovers, so if the need arises to slam the car for a show, it is possible to do so with ease.

Typically in the past we have only installed the Type IIs onto B6 Passats or CCs that were trying to go for that slammed out look since they do sit rather low in the rear.
Fortunately however, we had a custom set of taller rear springs made so that these can sit higher in the back for those of us that prefer a more track friendly height.
We should have the custom rear springs available for purchase with the Type II coilovers very soon for those interested.

I'll be sure to take some pics as we install the new coilovers and other goodies as we go. :beer:


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## MotoGPS (Jul 31, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Good stuff! I love reading build threads.
> 
> As for the seal, anything that was different between a FWD and AWD 02Q I changed to the AWD version.
> If it's the seal that goes into the bell housing and seals the transfer case to the transmission, it should be 02Q409189.


I had to modify the casting to fit the transfer case, mine is from a DSG FWD A3,, only two holes came threaded and the seal end was taller here's a picture of the offending items









Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

MotoGPS said:


> I had to modify the casting to fit the transfer case, mine is from a DSG FWD A3,, only two holes came threaded and the seal end was taller here's a picture of the offending items
> 
> Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk


Interesting. Though I suppose CCs produced for other countries are going to have different production variances. 
My observations with the transmission cases that can use the transfer case came from only 6spd, 2010 and prior produced vehicles.
I haven't been able to find any others outside of that production range that are threaded from the factory.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

*Quick Update*

The 4motion is working! I should have posted this up last night but was at the shop a bit late and went to sleep right after getting home.
I still don't have ABS working just yet, but that should hopefully be fixed fairly soon.
I'll post up some pics later of the final issue that we had to iron out with the rear diff, but right now I'm just glad that it's working! :beer:


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## [email protected] (Oct 30, 2007)

Outstanding! Congrats!!


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Outstanding! Congrats!!


Thanks!

*Problems that occurred:*

I just have to say, if you have a VW or Audi with a Haldex AWD system, keep on top of your fluid changes!
The rear differential unit that I have on my car was purchased from a parts yard with about 50k miles on it.
We put new Haldex fluid and gear lube in the differential when we first installed it to the car, since we obviously didn't know the service history of the Tiguan that it came out of.
However, the differential was installed to my car quite some time ago.
No electrical connections were made then and the prop shaft was taken off of the car after fitment was confirmed.

Fast forward awhile to this past weekend and we connected the prop shaft to the rear of the car and finished the Haldex wiring.
First of all, the fuse that we had just wired in kept blowing every time the car was turned on and AWD was enabled.
Got under the car, checked the pump, sure enough, it was locked up. Grabbed another pump, put it on, fuse didn't blow, awesome.
Then, we went to pull it out of the shop. drove fine pulling back straight. As soon as we turned the wheel to take it out on the road, huge lockup.
It felt as though I was driving an old pickup truck or a 240 with a welded diff. And as fun as it may seem to have a fully locked rear diff, this wasn't.
Pulled the car into the shop, checked everything again, disconnected prop shaft, everything moved fine. More head scratching.
Decided to check the Haldex fluid. Sure enough it was definitely not the right color, and there were metal bits in it.
Popped the clutch system off of the differential and the pics below were what we found.


3P0A4984 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr


3P0A4972 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr


3P0A4975 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

For those not used to seeing a Haldex clutch pack, it's not supposed to be grimy and covered in that stuff. It's supposed to be shiny and clean.
Upon attempting to move the clutch packs, it was grinding and very clear that several of the discs were destroyed.
It was basically locking up when power was applied through it and was causing the rear wheels to not turn properly when going around a turn.
Since the gearing and the clutch system are sealed from each other, and there was no damage to the actual clutch chamber, so we grabbed another Haldex clutch pack and installed it.

Success! Car drives great now, steering was able to go full lock in either direction and most important of all, the AWD works.

Since I had to spend most of my free time afterhours here working on the AWD issues, I'll have to push the new coilover install back until after the Dub Deliverance track day tomorrow.
The car will be there however, and depending on how my inspection of the rest of the car goes tonight, I should have it on the track for a session or two. :beer:


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Awesome work! I'm looking at kind of doing the opposite; I have an AWD A3 and I want to swap in a manual transmission, so I've been following this thread to see how you worked everything out. It looks like I should just be able to get a pre-2010 manual transmission and it will more or less bolt up to everything else, assuming I do the pedal box, clutch slave, shift tower, shift box and cables, etc.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

npace said:


> Awesome work! I'm looking at kind of doing the opposite; I have an AWD A3 and I want to swap in a manual transmission, so I've been following this thread to see how you worked everything out. It looks like I should just be able to get a pre-2010 manual transmission and it will more or less bolt up to everything else, assuming I do the pedal box, clutch slave, shift tower, shift box and cables, etc.


Ill trade you manual stuff for dsg lol


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## Cc turbo (Oct 6, 2014)

Hi sorry for the direct question, but if you look back would you got in this project?
I'm asking cause I'm thinking about doing it myself or just make an afford and buy A7 3.0t Quattro.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

npace said:


> Awesome work! I'm looking at kind of doing the opposite; I have an AWD A3 and I want to swap in a manual transmission, so I've been following this thread to see how you worked everything out. It looks like I should just be able to get a pre-2010 manual transmission and it will more or less bolt up to everything else, assuming I do the pedal box, clutch slave, shift tower, shift box and cables, etc.


Pretty much. That swap doesn't seem like it would be terribly difficult, especially since they offered that configuration in Europe. 
The only things that you'll probably have to sort out are the ECU and ABS coding.




Cc turbo said:


> Hi sorry for the direct question, but if you look back would you got in this project?
> I'm asking cause I'm thinking about doing it myself or just make an afford and buy A7 3.0t Quattro.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For the average person doing this swap on their own, assuming that they have all of the tools required (and access to VAG-Com and a specialty software to recode the ECU), and paying someone to install a differential in the front trans (depending on how you plan on going about the front transmission situation), I'd probably put the swap price range at about $8,000-$10,000.

Simply put, the price is going to vary greatly depending on your level of access to parts, equipment, and the expertise to install said parts.
I have been blessed with having a shop full of spare parts, any tool I could ask for, and of course the expertise of some of the best VW/Audi techs in the country, hence the estimate given. :beer:


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## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

I did the 4 motion swap about 3.5 years ago in my drive way to my 06 Passat 2.0 tfsi. Pretty much a swap/bolt up application except for trying to code ecu/abs which I did after trying for like 6 months....... Here is my thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?t=5630980#/topics/5630980?_k=lsdz54


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

lour32 said:


> I did the 4 motion swap about 3.5 years ago in my drive way to my 06 Passat 2.0 tfsi. Pretty much a swap/bolt up application except for trying to code ecu/abs which I did after trying for like 6 months....... Here is my thread:
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?t=5630980#/topics/5630980?_k=lsdz54


Your build thread is where I got the inspiration to do my own swap.
I had researched the swap a bit at the shop by looking at various 4motion cars, but then a co-worker showed me your build.
I figured that if it worked between the same generation Passat B6 models (2.0T and 3.6 4Motion) as it did with yours, then the later gen 4 Haldex system cars probably share the same link.

I'm still trying to get the ABS coded correctly. I have the codes from several 4Motion models but cannot get it to accept the coding so far.
I've even gotten VCDS scans from a 2009 2.0L TDI 4Motion 6spd manual with the same ABS module, but it still says out of range.
The ECU coding (as in having it coded to say it's AWD) I'm not all that worried about since I have multiple sources to have that re-coded.

*Suspension Update*

I've been eyeing up the Ultra Racing stress bars on ebay for some time now, and finally pulled the trigger last month.
Having had a front upper stress bar on previous cars, I am familiar with the more direct steering feel one of these can add to a car.
That being said, knowing the CC has a fairly stiff chassis from the factory, I was not expecting the amount of difference that it made.


3P0A7717 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr


3P0A7726 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr


3P0A7706 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

As I said before, the CC has an already stiff, responsive chassis from the factory, but this really does put the icing on the cake.
I have a particular series of back roads that I like to use to test each modification I make to the car (I'm going to try and put together a little video featuring a drive down this route).
The drive proved to make me love the car even more. It feels much more capable of taking advantage of the grip provided by the Michelin PSS tires now.
Steering response is more direct, and feels quicker and more responsive to input. I highly recommend getting one of these bars!


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## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

Try this to recode ABS with this 0013722 - That's what worked on my car. 
As far as ECU recode let me know how u do it because I was never successful..


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Did you have to cut into the firewall to install this?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

lour32 said:


> Try this to recode ABS with this 0013722 - That's what worked on my car.
> As far as ECU recode let me know how u do it because I was never successful..


Unfortunately it's still giving me the same request out of range error message when I try to recode it with that one.
I'm going to post up on the Ross-tech forums and see if they have any tips.
Even if I can't recode the current ABS module, it's pretty inexpensive to purchase one that has been in a 4motion model and is already coded.



BsickPassat said:


> Did you have to cut into the firewall to install this?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Nope. There are grommets on either side of the upper firewall that the bar fits through on either side.
You could just simply remove the plastic covers completely and install the bar that way, but I decided to modify the factory pieces by cutting out the centers for the bars to come through.
Either way you do it, it's not a very difficult installation if you have access to basic hand tools.


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## MK6haldex (Aug 25, 2016)

This is a really cool swap. 

I have a couple of questions regarding this that I hope you can help me with (or others familiar with this). 

There seems to have been a number of part numbers for the rear Haldex unit spanning from 2007 to 2012 for Passat / Passat CC / CC. I am wondering what makes them different. If I am converting a 2012, can I source a dimensionally-identical 2007 unit and re-code it to work, or am I limited to the part number specified by VAG? How different are these units, electrically speaking? I know the Tiguan does not cross, but A3/TT/Passat/CC seem like the same unit, but with several part numbers. I figured it might be different controllers, but the controller is the same between all these units. 

Second question, I'm actually thinking of converting a B7 Passat (North American model) which was not available with 4motion (the B7 was in europe but the cars are different). So far, the ABS module is the same part number as a 4motion car and the engine ECU is also shared with Europe, so I feel like there is a possibility that they would be compatible with the Haldex. What are your thoughts on this? What else requires re-coding beyond these two ECUs? I am an newb with Can-Bus and VW. 

Thanks, hope this isn't derailing a great thread.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Others who know more than me may chime in, but here's what I know. The part numbers have various, typically minor revisions. With the controllers, they're all basically the same, even with the ones from the tiguan. What makes them different is the software. 

I got my hands on an older version of the gen IV haldex competition controller, and the sticker came off (the older version was before they started engraving the competition label onto the top of the controller). The part number was for a tiguan. I verified that the controller works, and is talking to the ECU via VCDS. The controller number / information in VCDS shows it as being a gen IV competition controller, not a tiguan controller. 

What I'm not sure of is the split in years for different generations. The first gen is what came on the early Audi TTs. Second gen came on some later first gen TTs and the '04 R32. Third gen haldex isn't used by VAG (as far as I know) and 4th gen came on '08 R32s and same year and later VWs and Audis. 5th gen is on MQB platform cars. 

Someone feel free to chime in if I'm wrong or missed anything. Based on what you're looking for, though, you want a 4th gen setup. Also, there are some differences in subframe mounting points between the A3 / S3 and Passat / CC. Lour32 covers it in his thread here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5630980-4Motion-Project-Begins


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

MK6haldex said:


> This is a really cool swap.
> 
> I have a couple of questions regarding this that I hope you can help me with (or others familiar with this).
> 
> ...


So here's all you need to know as far as sourcing parts for a particular 4motion swap:

B6 Passat/CC/Tiguan - All the same chassis, and most of the physical parts from each are interchangeable to a point.
Mk5/Mk6/Audi A3 8P/Audi TT Mk2 - Once again, same chassis for the most part, and most of the physical parts are interchangable.

There are several parts that are interchangeable between all of those models such as the rear hub carriers, some transfer cases, and hardware (not an exhaustive list).
This is because VW likes to sometimes make an Audi part that is the same as a VW part, but with a different part number.

Basically the main thing you have to keep in mind is that any of the B6 Passat/CC/Tiguan rear subframes will only work with the differentials from those models due to the mounting points.
The same thing goes for the Mk5/Mk6 etc. models: use the same subframe and differential from the same series.

As to the Haldex generations, here's what you need to know (this is a US based list):

Gen1 - old, not applicable to our cars

Gen2 - Mk5 R32/Audi TT Mk2/B6 Passat from '06-'08 - can use the front transfer case on newer cars (be careful, there are 6 cyl transfer cases and I don't know if the gearing is compatible with a 4 cyl)

Gen3 - IIRC, this wasn't used on VW group vehicles, I could be wrong however

Gen4 - Mk6 Golf R/Audi TT Mk2/Audi A3 8P/B6 Passats from '08.5-'15 - This is where a majority of the parts you need will come from. Other than the rear diff/subframe compatibility, many parts are interchangable.

So basically, if your car falls into one of these ranges, you should stick with that generation of Haldex.

As for the B7 stuff, it _*SHOULD*_ be compatible with the B6 4motion parts since the B7 is just a B6 chassis with a facelift slapped onto it.
I say should because I have not personally checked over one of these to see if every single bolt hole is present like it is on the B6 chassis cars.
You'll need to find out if there is ABS coding available that will work on your module, and the ECU recoding will depend on whether the option to change the ECU to report as AWD is present or not.
I would start by checking out what ECU you have. If it doesn't match the ones installed to the European 4motion models, it might not be possible for it to communicate properly with Haldex.
You can start by finding someone with VCDS (VAG-Com) and seeing if AWD is available in the CAN gateway installation list.



npace said:


> Others who know more than me may chime in, but here's what I know. The part numbers have various, typically minor revisions. With the controllers, they're all basically the same, even with the ones from the tiguan. What makes them different is the software.
> 
> I got my hands on an older version of the gen IV haldex competition controller, and the sticker came off (the older version was before they started engraving the competition label onto the top of the controller). The part number was for a tiguan. I verified that the controller works, and is talking to the ECU via VCDS. The controller number / information in VCDS shows it as being a gen IV competition controller, not a tiguan controller.
> 
> ...


I couldn't have said it better myself, some really good information there. I can also confirm the information about the controllers. 
I have a 2013 Golf R Haldex controller installed to my car right now and it is visible in VCDS and communicates just fine.
The difference is most definitely the software, with the Tiguan/Passat/CC controller the rear end is less aggressive than the with the Golf R module. 

As a side note, I do have a spare Audi TT Mk2/Golf R AWD rear subframe for a Mk5/Mk6 AWD swap if anyone is interested. :beer:


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## MK6haldex (Aug 25, 2016)

Thanks a million. This is amazing information. I was aware of the mounting differences between both "lines" but I didn't know if I could swap between models and years. There are a few really inexpensive Haldex units on ebay for 06-07 Passats that look identical from the exterior so I was thinking they might cross. Glad I didn't pull the trigger, because now I can easily snag a Tiguan unit (they are really cheap), or the whole rear clip. 

I have another question - What happens if the engine ECU is not compatible with Haldex? I know that the Golf MK6 TDI controller is, but I'm not sure for the Passat and I don't have a car to check. The part numbers are identical from a Haldex european Passat to the NA vehicle, same as the ABS module, so it looks promising but I'm not certain. I am sure you would get a check engine light, but what else would occur? I can understand the ABS being affected if it's not coded correctly, I'm just not sure what else might be impaired and how. The idea would be to do the swap relatively quickly and perhaps to deal with coding issues in the following weeks. I'm wondering if the coding will work.

Also, have you guys figured out if the yaw sensor is located under the seat on the passats, like the Golfs, and does it require replacement? It's well documented on the Golfs but I can't find such a sensor in the B6 Passat / CC parts lookup. 

Thanks again!


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

MK6haldex said:


> Thanks a million. This is amazing information. I was aware of the mounting differences between both "lines" but I didn't know if I could swap between models and years. There are a few really inexpensive Haldex units on ebay for 06-07 Passats that look identical from the exterior so I was thinking they might cross. Glad I didn't pull the trigger, because now I can easily snag a Tiguan unit (they are really cheap), or the whole rear clip.
> 
> I have another question - What happens if the engine ECU is not compatible with Haldex? I know that the Golf MK6 TDI controller is, but I'm not sure for the Passat and I don't have a car to check. The part numbers are identical from a Haldex european Passat to the NA vehicle, same as the ABS module, so it looks promising but I'm not certain. I am sure you would get a check engine light, but what else would occur? I can understand the ABS being affected if it's not coded correctly, I'm just not sure what else might be impaired and how. The idea would be to do the swap relatively quickly and perhaps to deal with coding issues in the following weeks. I'm wondering if the coding will work.
> 
> ...


Not a problem, the more 4motion swaps out there the better!

The only parts from the rear of a Tiguan that you'll need are the rear differential, the wheel hub knuckles, rear axles, and the rear subframe itself.
The rest of the rear suspension is the same. You'll need the prop shaft out of either a B6 Passat or CC, and the transfer case can come out of several models.
You're going to have to research the fuel tank, I don't know if it's the same as on the B6 Passat/CC or not, or even if they have the mounting provisions for it on US B7 models.

I'm assuming this is a 3.6 Passat? If it's a 1.8 or 2.5 you are going to run into a few snags that I don't have the answers for. 
And if it's an automatic, you might need to have the TCU reprogrammed or even replaced.

As for the ECU, if you get the correct ABS coding and are able to to enable AWD in the CAN-Bus installation list, you're good to go as far as Haldex functionality goes.
My concern is whether or not the US ECUs for the B7 use the same coding as the European versions. On the B6 Passat and CC models, they all have Haldex communication built in.
I just don't know whether VW decided to keep them all the same or if they took out that functionality since they didn't plan on releasing the car with 4motion. You'll have to check and find out.
Each VW/Audi ECU is coded to report as either AWD or FWD (and I guess RWD on some Lambo models), and if an ECU coded to report as FWD is installed to a car with AWD enabled, it throws a fault.
Basically the AWD still functions, but you'll have a CEL for the incorrect coding (you may have limited ABS functionality at worst, however I don't know for certain on a B7).
Keep in mind that even though the ABS part numbers are the same, they don't all accept the same SW coding. It's one of the areas that you might have to do some trial and error testing.
Other issues that may occur include instrumentation not functioning properly (all of these systems are tied together), but once again, I haven't done this swap, so I don't know for certain all the faults it's going to throw at you.

The reason you see it documented so well on Golfs is because it has to be replaced on those models.
The yaw sensor is located under the center console on the CC. I have a pic of it somewhere on my phone, I'll try and post it up later.
The sensor is the same across all VW CC models, and I believe the B6 Passats as well since it's part of the parking brake controller.
B7 should be the same (I really wish they had just labeled it B6.5, it's not a new chassis and it annoys me), but the part number will be interchanged to a 3AA instead of 3C0.


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## MK6haldex (Aug 25, 2016)

I'm actually looking to use a 2012 and up 2.0 TDI Passat with a 6 speed manual, which presents its own set of challenges since the car is longer WB than the euro one, so the gas tank is slightly different and the rear driveshaft would have to be longer (I can lengthen one myself). Looks like the rear subframe is the same as the Tiguan/CC in dimensions but the part numbers don't cross (looks to be a difference in exhaust hangers). If the Passat ends up being too much of a PITA I will swap a Golf. This is actually for my wife, we need an AWD car due to our really steep private road/driveway and this is going to be her car.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

Crap it's been awhile since I posted anything in this build. It's been a busy 3 months, haha.

Bringing this thread back from the dead for some updates.










Any guesses as to what the latest upgrades to Project CC-R are?


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Internals and maybe an intake manifold? 

Also, not sure if you're aware, but there's a group buy going on for rear lsd for haldex cars from wavetrac. I decided to forego finishing the engine build on my car this winter so I could do it. my guess is I'll have the engine finished next fall, which means I can then get to work on the turbo and associated parts. 

Anyway, can't wait to see the next update.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

npace said:


> Internals and maybe an intake manifold?
> 
> Also, not sure if you're aware, but there's a group buy going on for rear lsd for haldex cars from wavetrac. I decided to forego finishing the engine build on my car this winter so I could do it. my guess is I'll have the engine finished next fall, which means I can then get to work on the turbo and associated parts.
> 
> Anyway, can't wait to see the next update.


Where is this happening? The only thing I was aware of was the group buy to get Mfactory to make a rear diff


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

jettaglx91 said:


> Where is this happening? The only thing I was aware of was the group buy to get Mfactory to make a rear diff


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8268017-VW-GOLF-MK6-R-MK5-R32-Front-amp-Rear-Wavetrac-LSD-Thread-Group-Buy


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

Trust me, it's really, really tempting to get that rear LSD, especially since I already have a front high torque Peloquins LSD installed.
Unfortunately I did not plan on the next stage of this build to happen so quickly, so throwing on another $2,600 (especially at this time of year) probably wouldn't be the best idea for me right now.
I will more than likely be interested in the future however. :thumbup:

Currently, these items are going into the car. A huge shoutout to Integrated Engineering and their support of this build!










Integrated Engineering 2.0T TSI rifle drilled rods, Supertech high-rev valve springs and Calico coated rod bearings.

Needless to say, it's going to be ready for whatever turbo I end up putting on it. 

I should be updating the post with some build pics soonish.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Did you go with the standard IE rods, or the tuscan rods? Just curious; I did tuscan rods and mahle pistons last spring. I havent gotten to the valvetrain, however. I'm still trying to figure out if I should go local or just ship the cylinder head to IE and suck up the extra lead time to have them check and install everything.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

npace said:


> Did you go with the standard IE rods, or the tuscan rods? Just curious; I did tuscan rods and mahle pistons last spring. I havent gotten to the valvetrain, however. I'm still trying to figure out if I should go local or just ship the cylinder head to IE and suck up the extra lead time to have them check and install everything.


I went with the IE rifle drilled drop-in rods based on the turbocharger setup I'll be using.
I'm setting the car up for track days and will be using a K04 hybrid turbo (still making my mind up on which) since I prefer more low-end, quickly generated torque over top end power.
Don't get me wrong, we've used IE Tuscan rods and the Mahle pistons in builds before, and they're great, it's just overkill for my application since I'm not going to be making over 500 crank HP.
The goal is about 415 WHP and around 450 WTQ, with max torque generated by about 3,500 RPM, which would make for an excellent powerband for the tracks it'll be used on.

I would highly recommend sending your head into IE for assembly. They do great work on cylinder heads! :thumbup:

Just curious, but what kind of beast turbocharger setup are you running to utilize those rods and pistons?


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Just curious, but what kind of beast turbocharger setup are you running to utilize those rods and pistons?


I'm not there yet, as I'm taking my time as / when funds are available. I currently have an APR stage 3 setup (the older GT28 version). I'm looking at going to a GTX3071 setup with the smaller .61 A/R to minimize spool up time. The new 2nd gen GTXs are pretty amazing; and are capable of 650 hp, although I don't plan on making that much. I'm also switching to all v-band and planning on an external wastegate setup. 

With the TSI engines, you either have to go standalone and replace the entire fuel system or settle for around 500 crank hp, which is where I think I'll end up. In tank pump solutions and upgraded injectors will only get me so far with the HPFP design, and I don't plan on exceeding those in my A3. 

My plans are to go with the rear lsd, then finish the cylinder head work by next fall, and hopefully get the turbo setup and software all sorted by spring 2018. I keep going back and forth on whether to swap to a manual transmission or not.... there are pros and cons to keeping the DSG, so there's that as well.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

npace said:


> I'm not there yet, as I'm taking my time as / when funds are available. I currently have an APR stage 3 setup (the older GT28 version). I'm looking at going to a GTX3071 setup with the smaller .61 A/R to minimize spool up time. The new 2nd gen GTXs are pretty amazing; and are capable of 650 hp, although I don't plan on making that much. I'm also switching to all v-band and planning on an external wastegate setup.
> 
> With the TSI engines, you either have to go standalone and replace the entire fuel system or settle for around 500 crank hp, which is where I think I'll end up. In tank pump solutions and upgraded injectors will only get me so far with the HPFP design, and I don't plan on exceeding those in my A3.
> 
> My plans are to go with the rear lsd, then finish the cylinder head work by next fall, and hopefully get the turbo setup and software all sorted by spring 2018. I keep going back and forth on whether to swap to a manual transmission or not.... there are pros and cons to keeping the DSG, so there's that as well.


The GTX3071 sounds like a great setup, especially with the .61 A/R.

As for the fueling setup, I'm still going back and forth between switching out the factory high-pressure system for a Loba Motorsport system just to get a bit more flow.
If I do I'll run the upgraded ZZP injectors for more flexibility with tuning.
I definitely want to run a 5th injector and water/meth, so I'll be getting the Torqbyte controller at some point for that.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

npace said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8268017-VW-GOLF-MK6-R-MK5-R32-Front-amp-Rear-Wavetrac-LSD-Thread-Group-Buy


yowsers, $2200 + $1000 core, plus minimum 4 month wait once they get enough orders? The rear diff I dont think is gonna make a huge difference short of a major purpose built track car.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> switching out the factory high-pressure system for a Loba Motorsport system just to get a bit more flow.


I was under the impression the loba is still only for ROW applications?


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

jettaglx91 said:


> I was under the impression the loba is still only for ROW applications?


It is, but that doesn't mean I can't find a way to get one to work. To be completely honest with you, I haven't even started to research it just yet. Probably going to be a summer project more than likely.
I'm not too afraid of needing to figure out a way to do it. At the most I might need to source a new head and cams, it's all just parts and the research into getting them to work together in the long run. :beer:


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> It is, but that doesn't mean I can't find a way to get one to work. To be completely honest with you, I haven't even started to research it just yet. Probably going to be a summer project more than likely.
> I'm not too afraid of needing to figure out a way to do it. At the most I might need to source a new head and cams, it's all just parts and the research into getting them to work together in the long run. :beer:


Gotcha, from what Ive always been told its not the mechanical part thats the problem, its the ecu running it that is the hold up. Supposedly something electrically in the ecu cant support it or whatnot.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

jettaglx91 said:


> yowsers, $2200 + $1000 core, plus minimum 4 month wait once they get enough orders? The rear diff I dont think is gonna make a huge difference short of a major purpose built track car.


I get what you're saying, but I don't see how it would make less difference than a front diff on a car with a competition controller. I thought a long time about it because of the cost, but in the end, I decided it was something that I would rather have. I mean, there's people on the forum that spend over $1,000 to convert headlights. There's intercoolers that cost that much, as well as other parts that can be had for much less, and this is something that is completely unique in the market. A better way to look at the cost of this diff is that the price includes installation; there's no shimming or backlash adjustments or anything. You're getting a complete unit that will bolt right up to the car. 

The preliminary number of orders has been met, and they're in the process of making them now. I should see mine sometime in April.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

jettaglx91 said:


> Gotcha, from what Ive always been told its not the mechanical part thats the problem, its the ecu running it that is the hold up. Supposedly something electrically in the ecu cant support it or whatnot.


I have heard this as well. I'm actually hoping that it's moreso an ECU issue since that stuff is relatively easy for me to get altered or changed over as compared to having physical parts modified.



npace said:


> I get what you're saying, but I don't see how it would make less difference than a front diff on a car with a competition controller. I thought a long time about it because of the cost, but in the end, I decided it was something that I would rather have. I mean, there's people on the forum that spend over $1,000 to convert headlights. There's intercoolers that cost that much, as well as other parts that can be had for much less, and this is something that is completely unique in the market. A better way to look at the cost of this diff is that the price includes installation; there's no shimming or backlash adjustments or anything. You're getting a complete unit that will bolt right up to the car.
> 
> The preliminary number of orders has been met, and they're in the process of making them now. I should see mine sometime in April.


The wavetrac rear diff looks like a great upgrade that I do have on my list unless I can convince Gary at Peloquins to work on one (he goes way back with our shop, but it's still a huge maybe right now).
That being said, the front diff is still the better one to upgrade on our cars if maximum traction is your primary concern. 
However, the rear limited slip will probably make the car a little more fun since you can actually lock the rear diff.
I can only imagine how much fun you could have in a CC since the the longer wheelbase allows you to get the rear to rotate more.
I've already managed to get mine sideways more than a few times in slick weather thanks to the 26mm SuperPro solid rear sway bar, with a locking rear diff that would be addictive.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

npace said:


> I get what you're saying, but I don't see how it would make less difference than a front diff on a car with a competition controller. .




Because of physics. How many people to you see spinning the rear? The front has far more to deal with traction wise due to things such as unequal axle length, initial/more power transfer, lateral/turning forces, etc. All things the rear doesn't deal with or on a much lesser level. 

Not saying it's a bad thing but will def have less of a difference then a front diff.

Also the rear diff really doesn't have much comparison to a haldex controller, they serve completely different purposes.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

jettaglx91 said:


> Also the rear diff really doesn't have much comparison to a haldex controller, they serve completely different purposes.


I realize that. What I'm saying is that since the competition controller gives you a full time 50/50 split, you're getting the same amount of power to the rear as with the front. Meaning if you have an open diff and a limited slip, and a competition controller, the amount of traction should be similar. The limiting factor becomes weight; there's obviously more weight over the front wheels than the rear. This is negated, however, by physics, as all of the weight shifts to the rear of the car on acceleration. So really, the physics comment was a moot point. 

As Charles said, it should be a ton of fun, which is what I'm trying to do with my car; make it fun.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> The GTX3071 sounds like a great setup, especially with the .61 A/R.
> 
> As for the fueling setup, I'm still going back and forth between switching out the factory high-pressure system for a Loba Motorsport system just to get a bit more flow.
> If I do I'll run the upgraded ZZP injectors for more flexibility with tuning.
> I definitely want to run a 5th injector and water/meth, so I'll be getting the Torqbyte controller at some point for that.


I just re-read this, and I'm curious about the ZZP injectors. They're significantly cheaper than the APR / Unitronic "secretly sold to us by Bosch" injectors. My understanding is that there's some splicing that has to happen with an OEM GM harness into the VAG one to get it to work. Is it a simple de-pin / removal of the VAG connectors and swapping in the GM ones, or is there more to it than that? 

Thanks again, awesome build.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

npace said:


> I just re-read this, and I'm curious about the ZZP injectors. They're significantly cheaper than the APR / Unitronic "secretly sold to us by Bosch" injectors. My understanding is that there's some splicing that has to happen with an OEM GM harness into the VAG one to get it to work. Is it a simple de-pin / removal of the VAG connectors and swapping in the GM ones, or is there more to it than that?
> 
> Thanks again, awesome build.


You pretty much hit the nail on the head there. You just need to get your hands on an OEM GM injector harness and make them work. As for using them, you'll need an appropriate tune.

I plan on installing an upgraded in-tank pump for higher volume along with a Torqbyte controller. 
This way I will have my water/meth injection options covered, and with a little more work I should be able to use E85 as well. :beer:


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

npace said:


> I realize that. What I'm saying is that since the competition controller gives you a full time 50/50 split, you're getting the same amount of power to the rear as with the front. Meaning if you have an open diff and a limited slip, and a competition controller, the amount of traction should be similar. The limiting factor becomes weight; there's obviously more weight over the front wheels than the rear. This is negated, however, by physics, as all of the weight shifts to the rear of the car on acceleration. So really, the physics comment was a moot point.
> 
> As Charles said, it should be a ton of fun, which is what I'm trying to do with my car; make it fun.


I get what you are saying but that really only applies in a straight line and kind of contradicts itself. Yes alot of weight does transfer to the rear, never all of it, and the most would come on a launch, which again when was the last time you saw a 4motion car spinning the back tires on a launch. 

In terms of the physics its definitely not a moot point unless you put the engine in the back and start using the back wheels to steer. 

Again Im not saying the rear diff is useless but it absolutely will not make as much of a difference as the front. Have you ever driven a high powered car with a front differential upgrade? The difference is easily noticeable. Have you have you ever driven with with a rear diff upgrade? I only have on the street, and honestly couldn't tell a difference.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

jettaglx91 said:


> I get what you are saying but that really only applies in a straight line and kind of contradicts itself. Yes alot of weight does transfer to the rear, never all of it, and the most would come on a launch, which again when was the last time you saw a 4motion car spinning the back tires on a launch.
> 
> In terms of the physics its definitely not a moot point unless you put the engine in the back and start using the back wheels to steer.
> 
> Again Im not saying the rear diff is useless but it absolutely will not make as much of a difference as the front. Have you ever driven a high powered car with a front differential upgrade?


No. Previous to this car I was purely a GM, RWD guy, and then Subaru. 



jettaglx91 said:


> is easily noticeable. Have you have you ever driven with with a rear diff upgrade? I only have on the street, and honestly couldn't tell a difference.


With RWD cars, it does make a huge difference, but of course those are the wheels driving the car. Also, FWIW, on subaru platform cars the swap to a Rear LSD on both R160s and R180s is very popular, and for good reason. Yes, you aren't steering with the rear, but in terms of traction on acceleration, it makes a big difference, straight line or not. I realize the AWD systems in Subarus are different, and I'm really not trying to argue with you here, this is just what I've seen work. I've never had a rear LSD on a VAG car where power output is optimized for the front from factory, though, but with the full time 50 /50 output from an upgraded haldex controller, it should be a lot of fun. 

Charles, sorry if we were hijacking the thread, didn't mean to. It is a good point of discussion, though, and I hope it's value added.


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## troystg (May 15, 2012)

Where would one look for a race controller? B6 passat wagon. ..


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

Haha, I don't mind at all. Any talk about actual applicable performance in here is fine by me. :snowcool:


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

troystg said:


> Where would one look for a race controller? B6 passat wagon. ..


Not sure what you mean. As far as I know, you have two options. One is from HPA; they sell a switchable version that goes from stock to sport mode, and a competition version that gives you a full time 50/50 split. The other is to have UM flash your stock one. It also provides for a full time 50 / 50 split. One of the guys at Tyrolsport ran both and said that the driver can't tell the difference, but hooked it up to a computer and got a little better output from the UM flash of the stock controller.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

You can also get the Neuspeed Haldex controllers. They're available with or without the ability to switch between different Haldex programming.

Mk6 Golf R/Audi TT/Audi A3 Haldex Gen 4 Controller

B6 Passat/CC/Tiguan Haldex Gen 4 Controller


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## [email protected] (Oct 12, 2011)

Is it done yet?


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## tsunaria (Mar 24, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> Is it done yet?


Did anyone see that low key shade?


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

troystg said:


> Where would one look for a race controller? B6 passat wagon. ..


I would look into a UM Haldex tune. Its available for the R/A3/TT, I imagine the B6 should match something but its worth checking. The UM tune serves the benefit of all 3 controllers for less money. Thats what I did and made a night and day difference as it reacts faster then the regular controller, and none of the drawbacks of the competition controller.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Is it done yet?


Yea exactly where are the snow videos!!! :thumbup::thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Is it done yet?


Get back in your hole and ship or receive things. 



jettaglx91 said:


> Yea exactly where are the snow videos!!! :thumbup::thumbup:


Need some snow for that, haha.

The engine is back together and in the car right now. Everything should be buttoned back up tonight. Can't wait to be able to drive her again!

I've got a few pics edited and ready to post up, I'll try and get the rest finished tonight.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

While I've been planning on building the bottom end of the motor and updating the timing chain for a little while now, I thought I'd shed some light as to what prompted me to do it now, even though I don't have my turbo picked out yet.

Rewind a few months back to August, exactly one week before the Dub Deliverance track event. On the way home from work, my oil pressure light came on for a split second and immediately turned off. 
No big deal, lets check the oil level since I'm just about due for an oil change. Oil level was good, but I put it on a lift to check the oil for any metal, you never know what you might find.
Nothing in the oil, so back on the road she goes. On the way down to the track event, the light randomly comes on again, and then turns off. It does this once more right as I pull into the track.
Since we have a full paddock and several of our technicians are on hand, we checked oil pressure, looked at the oil, etc, but still nothing. Oil light does not come on at all during all of this.
Didn't feel like risking damaging anything on the track, so I just did my photography thing all day, and a tech and I drove home later that evening. The light did its random thing a few times.
When we got back, I changed out the pressure switch immediately, and the light never came back on again.

Fast forward to the first week of December. APR was using our dyno all of the next week, so we needed to make sure it was properly calibrated and reporting accurate numbers.
Strapped my car on the dyno and made a solid 251 WHP and 321 WTQ. Good numbers considering my air filter was completely filthy, and our dyno has a tendency to read lower than others, but it was right in line with what it should be making.










On the way home that night, the oil light came on and went off, and did it yet again in the morning on the way into work. So I decided to put some Liqui Moly Pro Line Engine Flush through the engine and see if something wasn't floating around in the oil system.

Sure enough, we found a few non-magnetic shavings in the pickup tube, but not enough to cause the pressure light to come on. It was also still reading at the proper oil pressure when we hooked up an external gauge, so the teardown began.

No visible damage was found on the cams or any other parts under the cam girdle, so we started to tear apart the bottom end. Still no damage found.
That left the balance shafts.

Now, for those of you unfamiliar with how the TSI engine works, it has two balance shafts, one in the front that also drives the waterpump, and another in the back that also connects to the oil pump.
Both are linked via a chain and a special sprocket. If one of them does not spin freely, it will affect the other shaft's movement.

Immediately upon trying to move the front shaft without any chains connected, you could feel a slight resistance to it. We pulled both of the shafts and sure enough, the front shaft was not spinning as it should.
The aluminum portion of the shaft had markings where it had rubbed on something and was definitely the source of the metal that we had found in the pickup tube.
You can see a bit of the wear on the front shaft in this pic:










Well, since the engine was already torn down completely. I reached out to Integrated Engineering to get a set of their rifle drilled rods for the build. 
I also ordered Calico coated rod bearings and some Supertech high-rev valve springs and titanium retainers.










The timing chain has been revised since my engine was put together in 2008, so I had the latest revision upper and lower chains installed.


3P0A0216 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

A good view of the lower timing chain assembly for those wondering what it looks like under the cover.


3P0A0292 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

Some top views of the pistons before a final cleaning. The carbon buildup wasn't too bad on these.


3P0A0225 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

Yes, that is an original waterpump. Knock on wood, it has never leaked on me, and I don't intend on replacing it until it does.


3P0A0230 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

You can see some of the carbon deposits a bit better here.


3P0A0232 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

One of the Supertech valve springs installed.


3P0A0258 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

After all of the Supertech valve springs were installed.


3P0A0257 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr

I've got some more pics of the engine fully assembled I plan on posting up soon. She's all buttoned up now and we started her up just fine last night. 
Hopefully driving her home tomorrow night after an alignment. :snowcool:


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

When did you buy the timing chains? There was just recently some sort of recall type thing on them, its the 158-AD number chain. Might not be a bad idea to check into it. 

PS: love the long CC gears they give that stock turbo plenty of time to make a bunch of torque lol


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

jettaglx91 said:


> When did you buy the timing chains? There was just recently some sort of recall type thing on them, its the 158-AD number chain. Might not be a bad idea to check into it.
> 
> PS: love the long CC gears they give that stock turbo plenty of time to make a bunch of torque lol


I had heard about the VW recall on the chains, so I did the Febi Bilstein chains instead of the OEM VW ones. Our supplier has not received a recall from Febi so I'm hoping that it's just a recall on VW's end.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

Just a quick shot of the engine/trans before it went back into the car last week. 

It's kinda funny for me to look at this pic, since this is a engine/tranny combination that we didn't get in the US at all, let alone that the world never got this configuration in a CC at all. 


3P0A0472 by Charles Strosnider, on Flickr


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

For those considering an aftermarket headunit, you really can't go wrong with the Eonon unit for our cars.
I've had mine installed for a few months now and have had a great time with it so far. For those that like to tinker with things, this thing is amazing.
Torque Pro runs awesome on this unit! For those not familiar with the Torque app, it lets you display any vehicle data that is readable via the OBDII port.

Here's my current Torque Pro setup for reference:


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## tsunaria (Mar 24, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> For those considering an aftermarket headunit, you really can't go wrong with the Eonon unit for our cars.
> I've had mine installed for a few months now and have had a great time with it so far. For those that like to tinker with things, this thing is amazing.
> Torque Pro runs awesome on this unit! For those not familiar with the Torque app, it lets you display any vehicle data that is readable via the OBDII port.
> 
> Here's my current Torque Pro setup for reference:


I just purchased one of these and am waiting for it to arrive. Like we discussed before, it's definitely a great buy. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## troystg (May 15, 2012)

Can you set the speaker outputs to high pass? 

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk


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## Vettes Volvos and VWs (Mar 6, 2006)

This is relevant to my interests! Awesome build


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## atrociousa3 (Aug 6, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> The only other part I had to change on mine was the output flange seal on the passenger side, which fits further inside the case as opposed to the normal output flange seal which mounts flush with the face of the case.


Do you happen to have the part number for that seal or is it the same one just pushed further back?


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

atrociousa3 said:


> Do you happen to have the part number for that seal or is it the same one just pushed further back?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't have the part number at the moment, but I swapped a manual, FWD transmission into my quattro A3 and converted it to AWD. It's the same seal that is used in the mk6 golf r.... still an O2Q transmission. It's also in my build thread on the A3 (8P) section of the forum.


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## atrociousa3 (Aug 6, 2007)

npace said:


> I don't have the part number at the moment, but I swapped a manual, FWD transmission into my quattro A3 and converted it to AWD. It's the same seal that is used in the mk6 golf r.... still an O2Q transmission. It's also in my build thread on the A3 (8P) section of the forum.


I’ll check it out. Got lucky with my trans. Has the threaded bolt holes already for the bevel box. Any tips on driving the race and shim out the first time? Doesn’t seem to be any place to grip with a puller 


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

atrociousa3 said:


> I’ll check it out. Got lucky with my trans. Has the threaded bolt holes already for the bevel box. Any tips on driving the race and shim out the first time? Doesn’t seem to be any place to grip with a puller
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7226084-Sleeper-build-round-2/page10

It's on post 231. I'll admit, I did not do this the "right" way, although I don't know how it would / could be done differently. I can't find the forum link where I saw that someone else did this, but basically, you have to grind out a couple of notches on each side of the case above the old race where you want to knock it out, then use a punch, hammer, and patience to get it out. if you look close there are oil channels in the same area, so it's not like this is going to cause any problems from a sealing things off standpoint, as the bearing will only sit against the race, and the race itself is pressed into the case and won't move. I took the transmission case to a shop and used their parts washer to make sure everything was cleaned out and had no metal shavings after I did this. It's a long answer, but I hope it helps.


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

atrociousa3 said:


> Do you happen to have the part number for that seal or is it the same one just pushed further back?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The seal part number is 02Q409189. It's specific to cars that have a bevel box/transfer case. 
They also use it on Mk7 models equipped with the electronic front differential assembly.


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## atrociousa3 (Aug 6, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> The seal part number is 02Q409189. It's specific to cars that have a bevel box/transfer case.
> They also use it on Mk7 models equipped with the electronic front differential assembly.


Thank you.


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## almoniyot (Jan 7, 2004)

Would love if the pictures were showing up in this thread


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## VirgoPHD (Dec 12, 2014)

Would going 4motion raise how much HP can be churned out with the right the right bolt ons and tune or 700 would a limit ?


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