# Sponcar yes, this is my build.



## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

I'll try to keep my list of mods up here to make it easier for other to know the mods done to this car without going through the whole thread.

*Fuel system*
-Eurodyne base tune: AWP_G2VVT_Stage3_Siemens630cc.mstro
-Walbro inline 255lph fuel pump
-Genesis I 550cc injectors + clips/adapters.
-Bosch 4bar Fuel Pump Regulator (FPR).

*Turbo Set up*
-SS Vbanded Turbo Manifold
-50Trim T3T4E w/ vbanded .64AR housing (journal bearing).
-oil feed line kit with fitting 
-oil return line kit with fittings
-T restrictor
-Oil Return Flange Kit
-Oil Pan Adapter Kit
-3" T304 Stainless Downpipe vband/clamp
-3" 6061 Aluminum Inlet piping set with Silicone Connectors/Clamps
-TiAL MVS Wastegate Silver 
-Dump Tube Rerouted w/vband clamp manifold to turbo
-Silicone Charge Hose Kit with T-Bolt Clamps (to Pancake Pipe)

*Motor*
-I.E. 19mm Connecting rods.
-Rebuilt the whole block with stock parts.

* Miscellaneous*
-Modified stock R32 Air Box.
-Bolt to eliminate the water line to turbo.
-turboXS manual boost controller.
-034motorsport oil catch can. -rerouted to intake with pcv but 1/4" hose in the bottom to drain the can to the ground.
-3” Tsudo exhaust.
-Eurocustom Front mount intercooler kit with 28x9x2.5 ebay core.
-Forge 007 DV.
-Black powder coated Valve cover and intake manifold.
-AEM wideband AFR gauge.
-Vei digital boost gauge.







*-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Hey everyone, some of you might have heard about me with my odd threads, comments, or PMs seeking for information, but my time has arrived. I decided to step up and start my build since i finally have most of the parts to get it done.

A bit background of myself and this car. I'm 23 years old, I have owned a couple of cars and most of them were Mitsubishi so you can tell I have some feelings attached to that brand but I have never messed with big performance parts. I have been always a fan to be different than the crowd and so a reason why i wanted to build a 01 Mitsubishi Galant which i was going to turbo it and do a 5speed swap, vr4 goodies, and blah blah blah. Even though i was close to it, it never happened. So i went with a dsm and had fun with it but there is not much you can do to make it look different than the other dsms specially when you are limited by a college student budget. Anyways this is not the mk4 forum, so looks won't matter here therefore let's go head and start with the performance subject.

I bought my 01 Jetta Wolfbourg edition in February 2010, so after 4months to learn in the forums and drive the car I decided to get coils, and so the bolts on.....

*Mods done to it:*
-Giac x+ 91oct tune.
-"Tsudo turbo back.
-28x9x2.5 intercooler with custom pipe i got from (CindyTT).
-Jom Coilovers.
-Forge 007 DV.
In the mean time, I spent some money on goodies to make it look good 

It went from this!


























To this!


























Then in december 2012, car started smoking and ended up being a bad piston ring on cylinder number 3.
So I rebuild the whole block and upgraded my rods, then i started buying parts for my big turbo set up.

*Turbo Set up*
-SS Vbanded Turbo Manifold
-50Trim T3T4E w/ vbanded .64AR housing (journal bearing).
-oil feed line kit with fitting 
-oil return line kit with fittings
-T restrictor
-Oil Return Flange Kit
-Oil Pan Adapter Kit
-3" T304 Stainless Downpipe vband/clamp
-3" 6061 Aluminum Inlet piping set with Silicone Connectors/Clamps
-TiAL MVS Wastegate Silver 
-Dump Tube Rerouted w/vband clamp manifold to turbo
-Silicone Charge Hose Kit with T-Bolt Clamps (to Pancake Pipe)
-Modified stock R32 Air Box.
-Bolt to eliminate the water line to turbo.
-turboXS manual boost controller.
-Walbro inline 255lph fuel pump
-Genesis I 550cc injectors + clips/adapters.
-Bosch 4bar Fuel Pump Regulator (FPR).
-Eurodyne Maestro.
-034motorsport oil catch can.
-I.E. 19mm Connecting rods.
-Rebuilt the whole block with stock parts.
-3” Tsudo exhaust.
-Ebay Front mount intercooler 28x9x2.5 with custom piping.
-Forge 007 DV.
-Black powder coated Valve cover and intake manifold.


















































































































































*Now the surgery it has been through*

Reason why it smoked like crazy 


















-Engine rebuild/built was done by RennerMotorsports; they are well known by their quickest vws from Cali back in the days ("2005" I would say). Now they are more into subarus and evos but they work on any car. I had a chance to check some of their builts and i fell in love with their gc8s subarus and their e46 M3 built.

Anyways, expect me to ask some question a long the build thread goes on as well to meet and make new friends here :wave:
Also, this might take some time since it is my first build ever, so im planning to take as much time as possible to do not get frustrated and break things.

My goals are somewhere over 350hp on high boost but it will be run on low boost most of the time since it is the car that will need to take me to school and work. Also, i'm trying to keep all the emissions there as well their stock engine bay look since i need to be able to pass Cali smog tests once every two years.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

*1/31/12 Update*

1/31/12 Update:

Last night after work, I decided to start taking some parts off so I removed the stock turbo inlet, battery, downpipe, and intercooler pipes.

-Pics-

Before starting to work on her.










Tagging all the stuff for less mistakes 





































And covered her for tomorrow.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

It is always good to see a build. It brings back awesome memories. Good luck bro n keep us posted!

Sent from my 2005 GLI


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## Nevaeh_Speed (Jul 9, 2004)

I like when people do their own work.:thumbup:


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Nevaeh_Speed said:


> I like when people do their own work.:thumbup:


This


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## 3WheelnGTi (Jan 19, 2008)

Watching opcorn:


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

I have pulled the turbo out already and now i will start putting everything back together.

I wonder if should i run my oil restrictor or not since i have a journal bearing turbo which means that needs to be well lubricated to avoid damages.

I'll update the thread with pics and details.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

sponcar said:


> I have pulled the turbo out already and now i will start putting everything back together.
> 
> I wonder if should i run my oil restrictor or not since i have a journal bearing turbo which means that needs to be well lubricated to avoid damages.


I like the build keep up the good work :thumbup:

Yes you need an oil restrictor. There is one specifically for Journal Bearing turbos and can be purchased from Arnold @ PagParts right here:

http://pagparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=416


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> I like the build keep up the good work :thumbup:
> 
> Yes you need an oil restrictor. There is one specifically for Journal Bearing turbos and can be purchased from Arnold @ PagParts right here:
> 
> http://pagparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=416


X 2.

Sent from my 2005 GLI


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> I like the build keep up the good work :thumbup:
> 
> Yes you need an oil restrictor. There is one specifically for Journal Bearing turbos and can be purchased from Arnold @ PagParts right here:
> 
> http://pagparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=416


Thanks. Kit came with it, I was just double checking if it is a good or bad idea to run it. Thanks tho.

*UPDATE: 2/2/13*

Okay, yesterday my friend and I decided to spent about 8 hours working on the car. We finally pulled out the stock turbo and now we are ready to put the new bad boy in.

Before putting everything back together, I'll clean things up since the stock turbo blew a lot of oil and the bay is a bit dirty. I found to have nothing but normal shaft play from side to side and a lot up and down shaft play. I am guessing that was the reason of the smoke on heavy pulls only, but still in a good shape for a turbo with 150k miles on it.

Anyways here are some pics.










I realized that there was no way to take the stock feed line without removing the water flange so it took me an hour and half to figured that out. :facepalm:










and as usual "the before and after of turbos. I can't done this built without this pic :laugh:












Now, I was trying to figure out my wastegate. So i think this is the way it should go. Correct me if im wrong please.


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## IAmTheNacho (Oct 26, 2003)

Not sure the question but any way you can route the vacuum lines to the wastegate without getting to close to the turbo or exhaust manifold. Here is how the vacuum lines should be routed to the wastegate running a MBC.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

I have it turbo to mbc to side port of the wastegate. Top port is for ebc if im not mistaken. The good thing about the wastegate is that it has ports all around it so u can choose any of them.

Sent from my 2005 GLI


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

I use side port on my Precision 39mm with a MBC. Top port plugged.


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## izcorrado18 (Aug 21, 2005)

Man I want to do this to my Corrado. :thumbup::thumbup:


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

plug the top port of the wastegate unless you are going to run an electronic boost controller.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i run my MBC off of the side port, i get my source from the intakemanifold.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Vegeta Gti said:


> i run my MBC off of the side port, i get my source from the intakemanifold.


:thumbup:

Intake mani is usually the best boost source because it reflects actual boost pressure going into the cylinder head post intercooler. This way if there is a pressure drop from your fmic the wastegate won't open too early


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Ok. I will be running a MBC along with the n75, so i made a diagram to show you what's my concern.










Based on the diagram, does the yellow and green line can be tapped and run the vacuum line from the intake manifold since my turbo does not have a nipple for it? or should i make one in the intercooler pipe before the TB?


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

^^^^^

Last edited by sponcar; Today at 06:30 PM. Reason: I realized that those hose need to be connected to a source anywhere before the Throttle Body (TB). I'll be welding a nipple in the intercooler pipe from turbo to intercooler. Or should i make one somewhere between the TB and map sensor?


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

You still won't pass smog with that BT. The refs know what to look for. You will fail with just the FMIC.
Unless you have a friend in the trade.
super nice build though.:thumbup:
keep it up:beer:


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> You still won't pass smog with that BT. The refs know what to look for. You will fail with just the FMIC.
> Unless you have a friend in the trade.
> super nice build though.:thumbup:
> keep it up:beer:


Hey dude, I know It won't be easy, but last year I was referred to a star station for my test only and I passed it. I put the stock air box and stock downpipe back on it (downpiPE wasn't even connected to the catback so it was loud). I told the guy I didn't have a cat before and a mismatch of piping size created the leak and so the loud sound. Anyways, he said I was ok as long I had the stock cat in there. The fmic was there and I still passed tho. So I guess all the engine covers and the black piping did the job to give a stock look In the engine bay.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

*Update: 2/6/13*

Okay, I haven't been here lately due to work and the time spent on the car but here are some pics and a little update on what it has been done.

I sprayed some high temperature paint on the exhaust manifold to avoid any chance to caught rust again. 
I sand it down then threw some paint on it.



























-THAT WAS THE FIRST COAT-

Then I decided that i should paint the intake manifold as well since i pulled it out to make more room when disconnecting the stock oil feed line.



















and back in the car!





































Now the oil catch can. I'm trying to figure out a way to relocate the relays without taking them out of the plastic cover.





































Now I wonder if i could tap this vacuum hose? otherwise ill make a nipple in my new turbo inlet to hook this up.





























Today, I"m planning to put the turbo on, downpipe, and set up my mbc paralell to the n75 valve. Also, I'll work on my intercooler pipes and nipples needed to get everthing hook up.

I have a question for those who are running a oil cooler turbo. What you do to the water hose coming near the water expand tank to the stock turbo? I'm not going to need that tho.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

U plug it. For the back of the block, use a bolt similirar to the one at the oil pan. 

Sent from my 2005 GLI


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

a4e3y5 said:


> U plug it. For the back of the block, use a bolt similirar to the one at the oil pan.
> 
> Sent from my 2005 GLI


I got the bolt plugged into the block but my concerne was the water line for the turbo which comes from the y connecting near the water expansion tank. I'm thinking to eliminate that Y adapter.


I also asked this to Big Tom for his MBC set up but it seems that he's not in here that often anymore. it might be because his thread got locked.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to run my wastegate and manual boost controller. I was thinking to run the n75 parallel to a mbc but i've found that i can run a mbc and just leave the n75 plugged (electronically) to avoid getting a code for the n75 valve. 

I checked his set up and i see that He's runing his source line from the TB instead from the intercooler pipe coming from the cold side of the turbo.










I wonder if he was able to run it like this since all the deletes he has done to his car or is it that i can run it the same way as his while keeping all the emissions on it?





Also, this line is meant to be connected in the turbo inlet pipe, and i wonder what's its job on our engines? Can i put a cap on it and forget about? it seems to come from a vacuum line in the TB (showed in the pics below).



















If you look closer, it seems to come from where Big Tom is running his feed line for his MBC.










And here is a non marked one if you want to check it in a clear way.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

sponcar said:


> Hey dude, I know It won't be easy, but last year I was referred to a star station for my test only and I passed it. I put the stock air box and stock downpipe back on it (downpiPE wasn't even connected to the catback so it was loud). I told the guy I didn't have a cat before and a mismatch of piping size created the leak and so the loud sound. Anyways, he said I was ok as long I had the stock cat in there. The fmic was there and I still passed tho. So I guess all the engine covers and the black piping did the job to give a stock look In the engine bay.


Kudos.
he was either new or didn't care and let you slip.
either way, its cool. hahaha.
I have the same MBC and got because of BIG TOM :laugh:
MIRO STP!s FTW!


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> Kudos.
> he was either new or didn't care and let you slip.
> either way, its cool. hahaha.
> I have the same MBC and got because of BIG TOM :laugh:
> MIRO STP!s FTW!


haha i know right. 

So you are running your mbc from the same ports as his?

btw spts are gone. im back on aristos


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

That exhaust mani paint will be gone in a week. Even real ceramic coating doesn't hold up over time on those manis


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

sponcar said:


> haha i know right.
> 
> So you are running your mbc from the same ports as his?


No mine is diferent.
Idk anybody else who is running the MBC the way I am. But its the only way it works for me.



sponcar said:


> btw spts are gone. im back on aristos


NOOOOOO.
Aristos aren't bad. I wish I had a set.
As you've seen in my thread, I has Arrietts.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> That exhaust mani paint will be gone in a week. Even real ceramic coating doesn't hold up over time on those manis


Yeah i realized it wasn't going to stick well and it wasn't going to last too long, but we will see how long it last.



MÄDDNESSS said:


> No mine is diferent.
> Idk anybody else who is running the MBC the way I am. But its the only way it works for me.


May i see the way you have your mbc?



MÄDDNESSS said:


> NOOOOOO.
> Aristos aren't bad. I wish I had a set.
> As you've seen in my thread, I has Arrietts.


haha yeah i remember. I honestly miss my stp1s. I can truly say that i had never had an issue with them.

*Update 2/8/13*

I finally got my turbo on. There is a bracket in the back side of the block that used to hold my stock intercooler pipes, so it was on the way for my new turbo and it had to be gone.

Things done today.
*Turbo installed.
*downpipe installed.
*new o2 sensors. (start everything fresh).
*MBC set up (similar to BigTom's).
*Bought an Eurocustom fmic (neuspeed knock off).

It has been raining and i might continue working in the next couple of hours. 

now onto the pics.

T fitting for the MBC.










Feed line



















hows the turbo is sitting in the car.














































Bolt on the block since im not running a water line.










FMIC: I'll keep my core since it is bigger but i'll use the pipings from the eurocustom fmic.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Looking good mang :beer:


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

I didn't know the EuroCustoms FMIC was a Nuespeed knock off.
where did you get that from?

nice work.:thumbup:
thats some major progress.:beer:


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Thanks guys, I'm happy to see that im alomost done with it. I can't wait to see her alive again hahaha

Yeah, I found a local guy who is going back to stock so i bought it from him. The only thing is that he kinda make a custom pipe for the map flange. He placed the map flange really close from the tb, i hope that won't give me issues.

here are some pics i took before call it a day.

My MBC is there 




























and how the hardware looks.










Now questions.!

I'm installing an 034motorsport oil catch can which came with an adapter/spacer where it goes right where the oil return line is plugged to the oil pan. It seems to bend a bit my oil return line. I was told it need to be straight but i wonder if it would cause any damage on my turbo if it sits that way i have it.?


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

Everything looks really nice...great job! The only concern I have is exactly your question...the oil return line. Not only it looks a lil twisted but it also seems that it will rub against metal. Engine vibration n such will break it in time, not to mention the twist in it may prevent oil from flowing which will cause the turbo to flood n soon many other things will comw benid it. My advice is either to cut the line a bit so it goes strait or get rid of the 034 adapter, make a bigger hole in the catch can so u can plug it and empty it from time to time.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

a4e3y5 said:


> Everything looks really nice...great job! The only concern I have is exactly your question...the oil return line. Not only it looks a lil twisted but it also seems that it will rub against metal. Engine vibration n such will break it in time, not to mention the twist in it may prevent oil from flowing which will cause the turbo to flood n soon many other things will comw benid it. My advice is either to cut the line a bit so it goes strait or get rid of the 034 adapter, make a bigger hole in the catch can so u can plug it and empty it from time to time.


Yeah i was thinking the same thing. I might just give up on installing an oil catch can unless i can run it and dump this little hose to the atmosphere. I dont think there will be a lot of milky oil collection in the catch can but if anything it could drain on the ground.


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

IMO it's not a good idea to reroute the catch can to the oil pan because of the condensation inherent in the setup.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Okay, I removed the adapter for the oil catch can and it seems that it does not make much difference on how my oil return line sits. It needs to get a bit bend to be able to plug it in.

I'm guessing its cuz as you can see the fitting from the turbo to the oil return line does not go all the way in 






































Here are some pics of the thread that goes in the turbo and what it stay out from the fitting. All the space left is what makes my oil return line longer than what it needs to be.










A closer look of how far the fitting sticks in.



















Is this right?


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Yes because that is an NPT tapered thread fitting. It will not screw in all the way because of the tapered threads. 

Buy a different oil drain flange with a -10AN male nipple machined into the flange like this one:

http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/products/GT_Series_Aluminum_Oil_Drain_Flange_10-130-5.html


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Yes because that is an NPT tapered thread fitting. It will not screw in all the way because of the tapered threads.
> 
> Buy a different oil drain flange with a -10AN male nipple machined into the flange like this one:
> 
> http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/products/GT_Series_Aluminum_Oil_Drain_Flange_10-130-5.html


Thanks, that's what i need to fix my issue, now ordering....


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Make sure you get a new oil drain gasket too


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Make sure you get a new oil drain gasket too


Even though It hasn't been used the one I have?
I mean I mounted it but I hasn't see oil at all.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

sponcar said:


> Even though I has been used the one I have?
> I mean I mounted it but I hasn't see oil at all.


If you haven't ran the motor yet I suppose it would be ok. I always replace cheap gaskets like that near the turbo area because they see so much heat cycling


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> If you haven't ran the motor yet I suppose it would be ok. I always replace cheap gaskets like that near the turbo area because they see so much heat cycling


This.
It would probably be ok. In fact, I'm pretty sure it would.
Hut I'm 100% positive a new gasket would work.
Think of all the $ you've dumped into this.
Now think how you would feel if your turbo burned out just because you didn't replace replace a $3 gasket.


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Typically when you torque a gasket, it becomes deformed and loses its sealing capabilities. My $0.02 says to replace.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> This.
> It would probably be ok. In fact, I'm pretty sure it would.
> Hut I'm 100% positive a new gasket would work.
> Think of all the $ you've dumped into this.
> Now think how you would feel if your turbo burned out just because you didn't replace replace a $3 gasket.





Three3Se7en said:


> Typically when you torque a gasket, it becomes deformed and loses its sealing capabilities. My $0.02 says to replace.


Thanks guys, I bought the new flange and it came with a new gasket as well.

Here is another *Update 2/13/13*

Everything it's on but i need to fix some details.

*Downpipe needs to be welded or extended to fit my 3" catback. It came with the reducer in case i wanted to keep my stock catback i guess.
*I found an exhaust leak in my exhaust manifold, the nuts on the upper side of the exhaust manifold were hard to tight them on so i guess there is the leaking. (ANY ADVISE ON WHAT TOOL CAN I USE? IT WAS HARD TO FIT A WRENCH OR SOCKET IN THERE).
*I need some flexible rubber hose of 1" diammeter to recirculate my DV and for the pcv valve.
*I ordered an AEM wideband gauge to have my afr on check.
Now the pics.














































Oil drain line looks much better now.



















My oil Catch can dump line to the ground.



















And the First start.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

:thumbup:
how you liking it?


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> :thumbup:
> how you liking it?


It feels good. There is not much lag on the turbo as i was expecting but I think my MBC is installed the wrong way. I boosted 5psi once then it didn't boost anything. Stayed on 0 on a pull.

Can someone confirm if my boost controller is plugged the wrong way?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Looks like your missing a check valve that runs to the brake booster


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

The only other person I ever known to run a MBC that way is BIGTOM.
Have you tried another way?

I didn't know the EuroCustoms FMIC was a Nuespeed knock off.
where did you get that from?


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Looks like your missing a check valve that runs to the brake booster


Dave, could you point me to where you found the missing the check valve.?

I tagged everything to avoid these issues but I only have this line that goes back to the inlet pipe which hasn't been connected yet, as well as the pcv valve but i don't think they would make much effect since im running a mafless file for now.



MÄDDNESSS said:


> The only other person I ever known to run a MBC that way is BIGTOM.
> Have you tried another way?
> 
> I didn't know the EuroCustoms FMIC was a Nuespeed knock off.
> where did you get that from?


I have not try the other way yet, but i'll in a bit.

I assume that for its simility with the neuspeed and seller told me that too but i might be wrong.

I found this.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4526170-Eurocustoms-Front-mount-intercooler

I apologize if im providing a wrong info.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

okay this thread has been death for the last couple of days but here is a small update.

Car is finally running. I turn up my boost up to 12psi to see how the car reacts.
I've been dealing with clamps popping out due to that my rubber hose from turbo to intercooler pipe is too short and other mistakes that the previous guy who ran this intercooler pipes made to it by
modifying the intercooler pipes from TB to intercooler which apparently worked fine on his k03 but for 50trim has been just too weak. I'll get them fixed properly.

Anyways, last night i made a strong pull on third then again clamps near the map sensor couldn't hold the pressure. The pipe between the map sensor and TB popped out and so the check engine light.

I scanned the car and here are the codes i got.

5 Trouble codes found;

Trouble code 1 ; P0201 Injector Circuit/Open - Cylinder 1
Trouble code 2 ; P0203 Injector Circuit/Open - Cylinder 3
Trouble code 3 ; P0204 Injector Circuit/Open - Cylinder 4
Trouble code 4 ; P0202 Injector Circuit/Open - Cylinder 2
Trouble code 5 ; P2181 Cooling System Performance

I haven't installed my inline fuel pump yet just because i can't find a way to wire it up :facepalm:
Usrt has their wiring harness out of stock.

I'll do a TB adaptation and i would like to do some logs to get some assistance, but i just don't know how to read them and what blogs should i log.

any


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

http://malonetuning.com/guides/vagcom/vagcom_logging_guide.pdf


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

If u unpluged ur injectors at some point n try to start the car (like priming the turbo) u usually get those codes. The last one not too sure about it. Google it n it should give u a better explanation. Regarding logs......do a few pulls and post them. People will chime in for sure.

Sent from my 2005 GLI


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

For the fuel pump wiring it is pretty easy to make your own harness. Grab some 10 or 12 awg primary wire, a relay and an inline fuse holder from any auto parts store and go to town.

You can either tap into the stock fuel pump power wire or any +12v source under the dash to trigger the relay. Get power for the pump directly from the battery.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> http://malonetuning.com/guides/vagcom/vagcom_logging_guide.pdf


Thanks, this is what i needed. I'll do some logs as soon as i can.



a4e3y5 said:


> If u unpluged ur injectors at some point n try to start the car (like priming the turbo) u usually get those codes. The last one not too sure about it. Google it n it should give u a better explanation. Regarding logs......do a few pulls and post them. People will chime in for sure.
> 
> Sent from my 2005 GLI


I primed the turbo that way. Anyways, I cleared the codes and i will keep it on check in case they come back.

For the last code i'm assuming it is my temperature sensor which was giving me problems before pulling the k03s. I already ordered a new one and we will see if it goes away.



formerly silveratljetta said:


> For the fuel pump wiring it is pretty easy to make your own harness. Grab some 10 or 12 awg primary wire, a relay and an inline fuse holder from any auto parts store and go to town.
> 
> You can either tap into the stock fuel pump power wire or any +12v source under the dash to trigger the relay. Get power for the pump directly from the battery.


Nice, I can get my +12v source from where i have my boost gauge hooked up.
I'll work on it.

Thanks


----------



## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

So far it has become an slow built thread since im learning of everything im doing to this car.

Car has been running good beside little little iddle issues which i think is what everyone who has eurodyne base file have been through. Nothing serious just once in a while vac bumping from 20 to 19 and back to 20.

*Things i ordered.*
-Map sensor flange. -_Received_-
-AEM wideband gauge. -_Received_-
-Green temperature sensor.
-2x Inline fuse holders. 
1-for my aem gauge (10amp-16gauge) and 30Amp-10gauge for my fuel pump wiring.
-4pin relay.
-socket for 5pin relay.

I noticed the great amount of heat that has increased in my bay since the big turbo install, so i was looking into this. 
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/prod...d=564&osCsid=d6c273ae3e3c54db02798ecbeac86154
Has anyone ordered from them? I would like to know their quality part and if i can trust their product. I dont want these exhaust wrap to catch on fire because using cheap stuff 

I'm figuring out where i can run the wire from the wideband o2 sensor to the cabin beside the hole in the firewall. It seems hard to get the plug from the gauge through the little hole. Otherwise i think i will have to make it a bit bigger.

Now im working on my diagram for the fuel pump wiring. I'm waiting for the parts to arrive so i can go a head and start making a nice wiring for it. (I'll Try to do my best).

So far a pic of how the engine bay looks like.










Now onto the next ideas:

-I was checking on my catch can, and i was wondering if it would be smart to run the pcv to the catch can then catch can to the atmosphere or intake; instead of the way i have it which is engine to catch can then catch can to pcv, and pcv to intake.?:sly:










-Also, I was thinking to run my MBC in cabin. Either get a hallman pro rx or make my turboxs mbc works with a T fitting in the bay.
Like this.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Bump! 
I need some opinions with the idea for the oil catch can. 

Also, I'm trying to figure out why my mbc is not working. It's either something wrong hooking up my wastegate, or my source line is not sending boost pressure to it. I still hit over 20psi while mbc is all the way down.:screwy:

I'm trying to find what are my options before welding a nipple on my intercooler pipe for my boost pressure source.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

I would stick to your current catch can set up. You need a constant vac source so it pulls the oil vapor through the catch can. Its basically the same way VW original designed it. The only difference is the addition of the catch can to reduce the amount of oil vapor that goes back into your motor.

I have to run my MBC with my N75. Have you tried that?


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

I just removed the mbc and I will try a wastegate pressure tomorrow to see how it works. Then I'll try run them parallel with my n75 and find out what does my car likes the most.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Update:

After removing the mbc, I took the car for a drive and ran at wastegate pressure. Car keeps boosting and once i hit 18psi i let off the gas. It seems that the issue is on my wastegate and it might be leaking somewhere. I have noticed some carbon on my exhaust manifold, but I can't tell if it's the paint fadding off or the leak from the wastegate.

Any thought?


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Sorry, no idea. I don't know enough about BT.

Did you try with both the MBC and N75?


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> Sorry, no idea. I don't know enough about BT.
> 
> Did you try with both the MBC and N75?


No yet. I'll try the n75 parallel with the mbc tomorrow and also I will double check the wastegate as well. 
I'll post up results.

Btw I have searched online and it seems that a leaking wastegate will make My boost keep rising. I haven't seen what's the maximum boost it reaches but once I see over 20psi I let off the gas since I'm waiting on parts to get my fuel pump wiring done


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

sponcar said:


> No yet. I'll try the n75 parallel with the mbc tomorrow and also I will double check the wastegate as well.
> I'll post up results.
> 
> Btw I have searched online and it seems that a leaking wastegate will make My boost keep rising. I haven't seen what's the maximum boost it reaches but once I see over 20psi I let off the gas since I'm waiting on parts to get my fuel pump wiring done


Some mbc will give u higher than gate spring psi. My gate spring is 14.7psi but when i hook my mbc the minimum i get is 20psi. Ebc eliminate that. As for the leak....depending where it is that could be the case. If the leak is as the gate stayin open u wont make much psi...if it is somewhere else most likely since there is not enough pressure to open the gate....although a lil improbable. Try gate spring only n see how much u r boostin....then u will have a better idea where to look for. Also, take the intake out so have clean access to the mani/turbo/gate/dp. With the car cold, start it up n caress all those areas so u can feel where the leak is. U only have about a minute or two before it gets too hot to the touch


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

a4e3y5 said:


> Some mbc will give u higher than gate spring psi. My gate spring is 14.7psi but when i hook my mbc the minimum i get is 20psi.


minimum of 20PSI?!
what the crap. If I turn my MBC all the way down, I get no boost.


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## a4e3y5 (Jan 21, 2009)

^^^^I have dual controller so not sure if that has to do with it. Also....my friend has the same controller n his psi is higher than gate spring psi....turbosmart. Ill think that it is designed that way to give higher psi than single ones i guess


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Okay, I tried both ways today. I ran wastegate pressure and a parallel with n75 but nothing changed.
I'm starting to assume my wastegate is not opening. After a few pulls I noticed that my oil catch can is not doing the job as i was expecting. I found a lot of milky oil going back to my intake. I also went down the car today and i found out the my oil drain line has been leaking pretty bad. :facepalm:
Maybe i've been getting an excesive blow by that it put too much pressure on my valve cover gasket. i see some oil leaking from there which is something that car didn't have before the turbo install. All these leaks are from the back of the block.

Pics:
Milky oil from catch can to intake 



















Oil leaks: As you can see my oil drain line looks kinda goldish and you can even see oil in my subframe as well.










Then the leak from valve cover i found :facepalm:



















And here is a short video while i was cleaning all that oil.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Ugh. I hate oil leaks


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

groggory said:


> Ugh. I hate oil leaks


Tell me about it -.-


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## MNShortBus (Mar 14, 2008)

Did you use any thread sealant on the oil drain fitting? I didn't see any on there in the pics.

Also, check the half moon gasket around the chain tension on the side of the head. And also the valve cover gasket on the same side.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MNShortBus said:


> Did you use any thread sealant on the oil drain fitting? I didn't see any on there in the pics.
> 
> Also, check the half moon gasket around the chain tension on the side of the head. And also the valve cover gasket on the same side.


To be honest, I completly forgot about the sealant since i had issues with my oil drain line being to long at first. I'll start by replacing the gasket and put sealant in my oil drain fitting.

I'll check those out tomorrow and i will come back with updates. Thanks for the advice.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Teflon will do the trick too. its what I use. no oil or coolant leaks here.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

a4e3y5 said:


> ^^^^I have dual controller so not sure if that has to do with it. Also....my friend has the same controller n his psi is higher than gate spring psi....turbosmart. Ill think that it is designed that way to give higher psi than single ones i guess


I have the same MBC, turbosmart 2 stage... I removed my spring from the t fitting and now it dropped my minimum down to 17-18psi :laugh: Kinda sucks when trying to break in a new engine


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Update:
I brought the car to Ivo from renner Motorsport (a shop with good reputation with modified cars in SoCal). We discuss details and ideas and turned out to be that my wastegate was opening at 19psi plus I had a leak there. So we opened it and remove the small spring and now wastegate preassure is set at 10-11 psi.
Regarding my oil return line, it seem that the hose was a bit lose from the connectors to turbo and oil pan flange, so when hitting pressure it started leaking. 

He also recommend me to weld a fitting either in the turbo or in the turbo charge pipe near the turbo. He believes that hooking up my source line from manifold is not a great idea since by the time my wastegate reacts, it would over boost already. It makes sense but left me wondering because I've seen more people running their source line from manifold. Anyways, I'll do more research on that.

Now the next step will be to finish my fuel pump wiring once the relay socket comes in the mail. I have everything almost ready. Then crank the boost


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Wastegates are only supposed to see pressure, at least according to tial. Thats also how most if not all oem's do it aswell


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Wg - charge pipe


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

groggory said:


> Wg - charge pipe


This


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

sponcar said:


> renner Motorsport (a shop with good reputation with modified cars in SoCal).


I totally disagree.
My buddy went there and the promised him the Revo stage3 tune is THE tune for the FT F4h with 550 injectors.
AND that since he already had a Revo stage2 tune, it was only a $50 upgrade.
They ended up charging him $500.

I told my friend again and again, "no, they are full of it", but he didn't listen to me. The car ran like sh*i*t. He ended up getting a custom tune.

I will never go through them, nor will I ever recommend them to anybody.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> I totally disagree.
> My buddy went there and the promised him the Revo stage3 tune is THE tune for the FT F4h with 550 injectors.
> AND that since he already had a Revo stage2 tune, it was only a $50 upgrade.
> They ended up charging him $500.
> ...


I see there are some mixed feedbacks from them. Ivo offered me the revo tune for my big turbo set up when i told him about going big turbo. i don't blame him, they have been out of the vw scene for a while now and so far that was the only tune for anything bigger than k04 back in the days. He upgrades the ecus and take it to the dyno to do a custom/safe tune, at least that was what he explained to me. Anyways, it's all up to the customer to follow his advise or do their own research before trusting someone else word, but when it comes to hardware install they do a pretty good job IMO.

An UPDATE 

Car is running great. I cranked the boost up to 18psi and it feels amazing. Driving it at 10psi it felt same as the power delivered from an stage 1 k03s but with way less torque.

I finished my inline fuel pump wiring which will be installed tomorrow or the next day.

Diagram of how i will wire up my inline fuel pump.
Relay:
85=Ground.
87=To fuel pump.
86=+12v from dash/ 87F/Diesel (under dash).
30=Power from battery with an inline fuse holder and 20amp fuse.


pics:




























Also I'm finally welding the extra bung for my wideband gauge and I'll be welding a fitting in my charge pipe for my boost pressure source.


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## sliazafoxx31 (Mar 27, 2012)

:thumbup::thumbup::laugh:


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Very nice.:thumbup:
Shortest DIY ever.:laugh:
Where are you going to mount the relay?


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> Very nice.:thumbup:
> Shortest DIY ever.:laugh:
> Where are you going to mount the relay?


 haha thanks. I followed the diy in here where this guy upgraded his injectors and pump to go e85. So the relay was mounted near the battery where the plastic hose that runs from the air box through the battery side and goes into the front bumper is held. 




























Finally, I was able to install my walbro inline fuel pump. Everything was installed as it has been stated before. I used the stock fuse hose which i cut it in two then attached the pump to them. 
In the other hand, I can't figure out how to hold the pump so i decided to let the plastic holders clamp the hose so it can be in place instead of hanging around. 









































































Before the fuel pump install, I was getting a really lean reading in my wideband gauge. It would idle around 15-16 and somewhere around low 15s when driving normal, i could only seen 12s for a second or two when coming to stop then go back into the lean side. I realized it needed the fuel pump asap but after installing the inline fuel pump, my AFR got better for a minute or two then it went worst than before the install. 

Pump is not loud, I can barely hear that the fuel pump working but it sounds like it's working. Any ideas? 

Here are some videos i took with my phone before the install and after the install of the pump. 

*BEFORE:* 

 

*AFTER:*


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Bump! I need help figuring it out guys why the car is running so lean now.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

cross check it with VAGCOM. Just to make sure its working right.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> cross check it with VAGCOM. Just to make sure its working right.


 block 002 right?


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Actually, I think its 003. 
http://malonetuning.com/guides/vagcom/vagcom_logging_guide.pdf


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

check IDC (whats your injector pulse at idle?)and pressure at the rail.


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## MNShortBus (Mar 14, 2008)

Keep an eye on those hoses that go to and from the fuel pump. I have mine in the same spot and since the hoses are a barely too small and stretched on the fittings they are beginning to crack and rot out.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> check IDC (whats your injector pulse at idle?)and pressure at the rail.


 What block is it to check the injector duty cycle? 
002? Or 031? 



MNShortBus said:


> Keep an eye on those hoses that go to and from the fuel pump. I have mine in the same spot and since the hoses are a barely too small and stretched on the fittings they are beginning to crack and rot out.


 I know, they looked all stretched now. I might replace them later on.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

sponcar said:


> What block is it to check the injector duty cycle?
> 002? Or 031?
> 
> 
> I know, they looked all stretched now. I might replace them later on.


 2 I think

Rpm * ms * 1200 = IDC


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Don't you have Eurodyne Maestro??? Just use that instead of Vag-com... It looks like when you first start your car its in open loop and idles a little rich... Then after it runs a little while it goes into closed loop and your idle sucks as you can hear it in the video, its constantly searching...

Not saying this is your problem but mine did the same damn thing and it ended up being a vacuum leak on a small plug I used to cap off a vacuum port... Also could be your IC and BVC values wacked... Why not log your car during idle and see what 02 corrections are ect


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> check IDC (whats your injector pulse at idle?)and pressure at the rail.


 I'm still learning how to read these logs but based on the logs i did today, groggory says that my IDC is 18% at idle and it's running incredible rich which makes sense for the poor gas miles im getting now. 

I scanned the car after the logs and i only got 1 faulty code which is the opposite to what my wideband gauge is telling me. 
P0172 Fuel Trim,Bank1 System too Rich 

I would love to post them in here but i haven't figured out how to post them in the forums. I remember someone saying to upload it with google but i can't remember how. 




One-Eight GTI said:


> Don't you have Eurodyne Maestro??? Just use that instead of Vag-com... It looks like when you first start your car its in open loop and idles a little rich... Then after it runs a little while it goes into closed loop and your idle sucks as you can hear it in the video, its constantly searching...
> 
> Not saying this is your problem but mine did the same damn thing and it ended up being a vacuum leak on a small plug I used to cap off a vacuum port... Also could be your IC and BVC values wacked... Why not log your car during idle and see what 02 corrections are ect


 Yes, I'm doing logs with maestro measuring blocks. 
I have checked for vacuum leaks and i haven't had luck. they all seem tight. I asked a friend to let me borrow his compressor so i can do a boost leak test at higher pressure. 
My previous boost leak were done with a bike pump. since my little compressor decided to give up not too long ago.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

sponcar said:


> I would love to post them in here but i haven't figured out how to post them in the forums. I remember someone saying to upload it with google but i can't remember how.


 I think you were referring to me when I was trying to post the graphs on here in my thread. 
I used Google Docs.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> I think you were referring to me when I was trying to post the graphs on here in my thread.
> I used Google Docs.


 Got ya.! 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdGNBakJZLXBvcHJ4WmRudktPY3dBQXc#gid=0 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdEJ4Ukk2aUdTZGNublpfQzJldVY5Tmc#gid=0 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdExkRnhob2NxT0gwMHFxekJwN0pkLVE#gid=0 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdGxvVlhubld4Y0hhbElicTlVUkEwaWc#gid=0


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

There you go.:thumbup:


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

I need your permission to view them. 
My email is td.taube. I'm just letting you know so when you get it you're not like "who the crap is this?" 
hahaha. 
As soon as you approve i can see what you got going on.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> I need your permission to view them.
> My email is td.taube. I'm just letting you know so when you get it you're not like "who the crap is this?"
> hahaha.
> As soon as you approve i can see what you got going on.


 ohhhh hahhaha sorry i don't really know how this thing works. Anyways, i approved you but I also changed my settings to anyone with the link can see it. Does that works for anyone else who wants to see it?


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

It's been way to long since I've looked at charts. 
Somebody else is going to have to help you read this. 
Sorry bud. 

If you go to the top of the page, in google docs, click format and I believe that is what I used to change my charts into graphs.:beer:


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> It's been way to long since I've looked at charts.
> Somebody else is going to have to help you read this.
> Sorry bud.
> 
> If you go to the top of the page, in google docs, click format and I believe that is what I used to change my charts into graphs.:beer:


 Yeah, I noticed you can make them into graph charts. I'll see how that works. 
thanks. 

UPDATE: March 17/2013 

In fact i had a boost leak in my map sensor which wasn't sealing right, but I managed to fix it and now i can say there is not vac/boost leak that i could found. 

I did some logs before and after fixing the boost leak. 

here they are: 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdC1CWmhxNW42UVU0Njc0M0Zoa0F0Tnc#gid=0 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdFhPZ2JjLURMR2tuTEJlU0tIVlpNc0E#gid=0 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdHBwWFpOcl84WEJlcVhzUXBLYnd1cFE#gid=0 

I hope someone can read them and chisme in what they see. I can see my a/f ratios are high it stays around 1 most of the time but it sometimes goes up to 1.2 which i believe that's lean, am I right?


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Not really feeling that pump placement. I'm also wondering why the hoses aren't pressed all the way onto the barbed fittings.

I'd move that pump over to the fender area, and attach it with a mount, and clamp. 

Between the engine movement, heat, and close proximity to the engine; the whole situation looks very unsafe. Imagine one of those hoses popping off, or heat/chaffing causing a hose to Burst; spraying unregulated, full pressure fuel all over the back of your engine/turbo/manifold.

Can you say car-B-q??


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Rod Ratio said:


> Not really feeling that pump placement. I'm also wondering why the hoses aren't pressed all the way onto the barbed fittings.
> 
> I'd move that pump over to the fender area, and attach it with a mount, and clamp.


 Factory hoses won't press all the way onto those barb connections. 

And I did exactly this with the walbro pump; moving it to the passenger side fender. There's two holes there that work perfectly for this.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Rod Ratio said:


> Not really feeling that pump placement. I'm also wondering why the hoses aren't pressed all the way onto the barbed fittings.
> 
> I'd move that pump over to the fender area, and attach it with a mount, and clamp.
> 
> ...





Three3Se7en said:


> Factory hoses won't press all the way onto those barb connections.
> 
> And I did exactly this with the walbro pump; moving it to the passenger side fender. There's two holes there that work perfectly for this.


 I though about this and I'll relocate the pump to right between the coolant reservoir and windshield fluid reservoir is. I believe those are the two bolts/holes you said right.?


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Good man :beer:

Just don't want to see ANOTHER cool project go up in flames. There have been a few documented car-B-que's here over the years.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah man, I really appreciate your advise because I don't really want to see all the time, money, and effort invested on this car going to the trash. 


By the way, could an exhaust leak be giving me this issue?


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

It could, yes. Make sure the hot side is sealed up like a drum, and I mean sealed. Same for the cold side. 

No pinhole leaks, no nothing. Everything airtight.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

I agree that inline pump looks like an accident waiting to happen. At least buy some new fuel line and mount it on the fender away from the motor.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Update: March 21/2013 

Pump has been relocated. I haven't be able to figure out how to read these damn logs, I'm going to have a buddy to borrow me his vag-com since it seems that maestro logs the data in different way than ross-tech. 

Pics of where the pump will be.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Throw those logs on here and let's see if anyone can make sense of them. I think they confused the hell out of me.


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## GermaniuM (Mar 29, 2001)

:thumbup: Looks good. I miss my big turbo car. You need one of these to finish it off.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

GermaniuM said:


> :thumbup: Looks good. I miss my big turbo car. You need one of these to finish it off.


 Thank you.... Oh yeah that might be in my to do list along with water meth but before any other upgrade, i need to sort out my a/f ratios. 



groggory said:


> Throw those logs on here and let's see if anyone can make sense of them. I think they confused the hell out of me.


 Yeah, I just have been busy with work but here they are. I emailed the eurodyne support with the logs and an explanation of my issues but i haven't get response from them. 

I logged each block seperatly 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdHQtd2VKelczZ0lvWHk3Sm16cFBmcWc#gid=0 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdGtKcDVBYV9ISzlHeEVBRlNXaW9VOWc#gid=0 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdHJxT3FHWGhxRmdMOHNFc3VWUV9jUGc#gid=0 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdEpMU3AtVllSRm9CbzR3cm1KMjZVV0E#gid=0


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Bump. Any help? :/


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

sponcar said:


> Bump. Any help? :/


 Would help if they are on sharing first. 

Second, are there maestro logs or vagcom style?


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

is your air filter dry flow? 

and is that the 1 with the Velocity stack?


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Would help if they are on sharing first.
> 
> Second, are there maestro logs or vagcom style?


I'm sorry the sharing settings are fixed now.
Those are maestro logs. I do not have an access to vagcom at the moment.



MÄDDNESSS said:


> is your air filter dry flow?
> 
> and is that the 1 with the Velocity stack?


No, it is not. I'm thinking on putting back an r32 stock air box with a k&n filter to replace the dirty cone filter i have right now.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

My Notes...

To preface, I'm used to reading either vag com logs or the complete type maestro logs. These have lots of stuff I don't recognize. Maybe someone who knows maestro can do a FAQ writeup on the proper way to log with Maestro.

2013_3_19-19.31.36.DataLog
---This looks like the equivelant of blocks 1 and 32
* Short term fuel trims are sitting around 1. Lookin good
* Fuel Trims are sitting at 0. Makes me think your fuel trims aren't working.

2013_3_19-19.32.40.DataLog
---This looks like block 32??
* Short term fuel trims look good.
* Long term fuel trims at 0. Hmm...usually should be a number of some sort.

2013_3_19-19.33.12.DataLog
* Your mass flow is sitting around 8-10 g/s at idle. It should be closer to 3 g/s at idle. You are definitely running pig rich if you're pulling that much air at idle.

2013_3_19-19.33.51.DataLog
* I don't know why you have negative numbers in the 'Temperature' column
* I don't know what U/Min column is, but it has numbers that I would have expected to be temperature readings? --confused--


----------



## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

groggory said:


> My Notes...
> 
> To preface, I'm used to reading either vag com logs or the complete type maestro logs. These have lots of stuff I don't recognize. Maybe someone who knows maestro can do a FAQ writeup on the proper way to log with Maestro.
> 
> ...


I've been doing some research on how to read fuel trim logs. If i'm not mistaken I have to multiply the number I get for fuel trim by 14.7 right? if that is right, my fuel trim looks good and you confirmed that my fuel trim looks normal.

I do not what happened to my long fuel trim but in the first data log I get -1.9 most of the time, log was done at idle as well. What sort of number should i expect, just to have an idea on how this works?

Regarding the mass air flow reading, I'm running mafless file, so I assume that is the reason why it is running too rich. I will be ordering a 225tt maf sensor in the next couple of days since mafless seems a bit too complicated for me at the moment.

Yes, I believe the U/Min is my actual temperature because I was checking them at cold start and it rise just as my temperature meter in my dash. I'll try to do some research on what does U/Min stands for, maybe that will explain the negative numbers in the temperature column and possibility that the data is saved in the wrong column.

Thanks for the help.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Make sure there are no leaks first.

Second, take a maestro log, as well. Im a maestro log user so to speak first, that vagcom/measuring blocks is way to slow.

I would rather see the raw data.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Make sure there are no leaks first.
> 
> Second, take a maestro log, as well. Im a maestro log user so to speak first, that vagcom/measuring blocks is way to slow.
> 
> I would rather see the raw data.


I have done a boost leak test and not leak was found. I can only hear air coming out of the dipstick which is normal. I can't feel any leak before the turbo at all and from turbo to downpipe is sealing good; muffler shop didn't find a leak there either. 
I'll try to make a log in a 3rd gear pull till redline to get better data. What block would you like me to log since maestro seems to be a tab different than vag-com?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Based on your most current idle logs, here's my notes:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdFNMZ2RnQTJWV2YxajdPOWl6aklYSGc#gid=0

Your idle is wandering from 870 to 930. Not terrible, but not great.

Your o2 correction wanders too from taking 5% of fuel to adding 8% of fuel. Way too much.

Your coolant is 48C at the beginning of your log and 54C at the end of your log. To really get a good idea of how your car is doing I may recommend you redo this test with the car warmed up to >80C coolant temps.

Your battery voltages seem to fluctuate a bit more than I'd expect for an idle log. I would do a full check of all your major grounds and power straps.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Ok, I recently recalculated my tune to the 550cc injectors @4bars that im using. First cold start was rough but then it seemed to settle. I haven't take it for a drive yet but A/F ratios seem to be ok even though my aem gauge says im near 16 at idle.

I let the car warm up, or at least reached 80c temperature but while getting there sai pump injected air 3 times and a/f ratios went up to 20+. It might be because it was the first start after the changes to my tune. ill keep an eye to this for future reference. 

Here are some logs i took after the changes to the tune.
*Data from over 1k rpms were because i step on the gas to see if it bugs when going back to idle or such a thing*

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdDhvaVU1Sk85ajVnUFRmOThjYXc0UFE#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdGM3SHdiQ2JyWWdWOXBIRmJhaGd2SkE#gid=0


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

I think things are looks a lot better for you!

I think the next round of logging should be WOT 3rd gear pull from 2k-5.5k. Same data set.

Let's see how the car is running with some load on it!


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Ok, I finally had chance to take the car for a spin.
Here are a couple of logs i did in third gear pull.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdGFjUGRwY29ObWZXZmJxbTQwY3o0SkE#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdFZOS2FmNEdBdi1nQm9fZEx6YWo1M2c#gid=0


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

sponcar said:


> Ok, I finally had chance to take the car for a spin.
> Here are a couple of logs i did in third gear pull.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdGFjUGRwY29ObWZXZmJxbTQwY3o0SkE#gid=0
> ...


this was a 14psi


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## builtvw (Sep 20, 2009)

whered you get the coilpack cover that goes across the vavle cover. i forget who makes em


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

builtvw said:


> whered you get the coilpack cover that goes across the vavle cover. i forget who makes em


034


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

builtvw said:


> whered you get the coilpack cover that goes across the vavle cover. i forget who makes em





Rod Ratio said:


> 034


Yup, http://www.034motorsport.com/engine-components-18t-coil-cover-18t-stainless-steel-p-516.html

I ended up selling it because i won't need it anymore. 


Any comment on my last logs? I see fueling is being delivered as requested but I don't understand when timing is pulling or retarding. I would like to see if i can crank up my boost.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

I cranked the boost last night and by mistake I ended up hitting 27psi. OMG it felt amazing!! Spinning tires in third gear and car was so quick. I had an eye on my AFR gauge and it was getting the fuel requiered. Now I wonder if this is a safe boost level to run once in a while? I honestly would love to be running 25psi all day everyday (this doesn't mean it will hit 25psi all the time). I've been driving this car for about 600miles and it barely see boost sometimes.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Couple of notes on those last logs....

* Your AFR actual is following your AFR request pretty well. Makes me believe that your fuel system is pretty healthy.

* Your AFR request is dropping from stoich (14.7:1) down to under 12:1 and holds there starting around 2200 RPM. This massive enrichment is likely gonna bog down your motor for awhile until the boost catches up. By that time spool is starting, but you are only at a couple of PSI of pressure. Most BT tunes that I'm used to seeing have an AFR request curve that ramps down over a period of 1000 RPMs or so. Generally you should be around 13.5:1 by ~2900 RPM and to around 12.5:1 by around 3600 RPM. On a fast spooling big turbo you should be at 15-20 pounds of boost by around 3600-3800 RPM. On a good tune I don't see the need to run 12:1 AFR. Generally 12.5:1 is just fine.

* I see all that timing retard that you're talking about as you go up the revs. I have nothing to back this up, but I think the massive enrichment that you're doing down low is causing your engine to cough up at high RPMs. Not really sure on this. But I do know that all that timing retard means something is wrong and you are getting robbed of HP.

....

Did you tweak the AFR curve or are you using a canned AFR curve from Tapp?

....

Also, I know boost is addictive, but don't crank the boost past 20 PSI til we get this all sorted....for safety sake


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Post up your .mstro file as well, so that we can see the log with the file and point out potential issues


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

groggory said:


> Couple of notes on those last logs....
> 
> * Your AFR actual is following your AFR request pretty well. Makes me believe that your fuel system is pretty healthy.
> 
> ...


Hey Greg! no, i haven't tweak anything beside the injector constant which made my idle more steady. Other than that is base file with base maps from maestro, so i could say that i'm using a canned AFR curve from Tapp.

Yeah, i can't deny that i have never felt a car going fast up the hill and i loved it haha, but for safety i set the boost down to 18psi or so. I haven't even boost it after hitting the 27psi from last night.



Dave926 said:


> Post up your .mstro file as well, so that we can see the log with the file and point out potential issues


As for the base tune i download into my ecu is the AWP_G2VVT_Stage3_Siemens630cc.mstro


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Ok, I decided to make some room in my first post to the whole list of mods done to the car.
Also, check engine light popped out  I kinda missed it tho :laugh:

Anyways, after scanning the car P2181 Cooling System	Performance code came out.
I replaced my temperature sensor for another green unit when the turbo install. Both fans work and a/c works fine as heater does. I'm guessing a faulty TPS unit or thermostat want me to replace it. Any tips on this?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Sorry, not sure off the top of my head. You'll have to hit the search function


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## MNShortBus (Mar 14, 2008)

sponcar said:


> Ok, I decided to make some room in my first post to the whole list of mods done to the car.
> Also, check engine light popped out  I kinda missed it tho :laugh:
> 
> Anyways, after scanning the car P2181 Cooling System	Performance code came out.
> I replaced my temperature sensor for another green unit when the turbo install. Both fans work and a/c works fine as heater does. I'm guessing a faulty TPS unit or thermostat want me to replace it. Any tips on this?


I had the same code after replacing my temp sensor and coolant cap. It ended up being the thermostat. I noticed the car wouldn't get up to temp once fall/winter came along.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Seems that the base tune you have is *very* safe. The primary method fueling is Power Enrichment, as the EGT is set pretty high.

The fuel curve on power enrichment basically works right off your throttle, and with the way that fuel curve is on that map your basically going full bore rich as soon as your foot goes down.

It needs to get dialed back.....considerably.

In recent logs, and a little bit of info I have found here and there on nefmoto, these 1.8ts seem to run best a little on the lean side. With no changes to my timing, I get waaaaay more knock at 12.1 afr than I do at 14.5. 

I would suggest lean it out to 14.5 until 5psi, and slowly ramp it down to say, 12.5 or so at 10psi. I can almost guarantee that you will watch your knock get a whole lot better. If it does not, then go after that.

Edit: I readjusted the fueling curve a bit so it makes more sense based on your boost curve, and adjusted full load lambda to 11.8 afr so when it kicks in you cant miss it.

Here is the link https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwMf58LTPUUob0x0REVCdkluakU/edit?usp=sharing


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Great advice!


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## joe91 (Feb 1, 2013)

MNShortBus said:


> I had the same code after replacing my temp sensor and coolant cap. It ended up being the thermostat. I noticed the car wouldn't get up to temp once fall/winter came along.



ditto with mine, car wasn't getting up to temp ( just sitting around 70/75) new coolant temp sensor made no difference. Changed the thermostat and that solved it, complete pita to get at though ! 
although if yours gets up to temperature it may not be that ?


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

joe91 said:


> ditto with mine, car wasn't getting up to temp ( just sitting around 70/75) new coolant temp sensor made no difference. Changed the thermostat and that solved it, complete pita to get at though !
> although if yours gets up to temperature it may not be that ?


I had a thermostat which kept getting stuck in the open position. They rarely go bad but it is a good idea to swap it out for a new one every time you do a timing belt bc it is a cheap part


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Seems that the base tune you have is *very* safe. The primary method fueling is Power Enrichment, as the EGT is set pretty high.
> 
> The fuel curve on power enrichment basically works right off your throttle, and with the way that fuel curve is on that map your basically going full bore rich as soon as your foot goes down.
> 
> ...


Dave, sounds fair enough, I'll start doing some tweaks to my fueling curve and check the results. By the way, I couldn't see your edits on the link you sent me, I would love to see the way you adjust the fueling curve so i can have an idea how they should be looking for better results.





MNShortBus said:


> I had the same code after replacing my temp sensor and coolant cap. It ended up being the thermostat. I noticed the car wouldn't get up to temp once fall/winter came along.





joe91 said:


> ditto with mine, car wasn't getting up to temp ( just sitting around 70/75) new coolant temp sensor made no difference. Changed the thermostat and that solved it, complete pita to get at though !
> although if yours gets up to temperature it may not be that ?





formerly silveratljetta said:


> I had a thermostat which kept getting stuck in the open position. They rarely go bad but it is a good idea to swap it out for a new one every time you do a timing belt bc it is a cheap part


Yeah, I will be replacing the thermostat, timing belt for a blue kevlar timing belt from Gates Performance, and my water pump. Reason why i feel like doing this is because my timing belt does not look healthy even thought i have only put 5k miles since the engine rebuilt but a few miles after, my motor mount bracket decided to break on me and timing belt rubbed on the motor mount bracket. All parts have low miles on them but since i'm putting more stress to my engine, I realized it would be safer to do it now than wait till it breaks on me.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Look at the power enrichment map and the full load lambda. 

All you need to is compare the basemap to what i sent you.

I would suggest either exporting the maps i tweaked to the file on your ecu, or applying the adjustment you made for your injectors to the entire .mstro file i sent.

Another thing I didnt change, but I suspect may need to get changed is the time delay for power enrichment. Might need a reduction.

Either way all I changed is the fuel curve. After that you can adjust optimum torque to get the fuel corrections appropriate.


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## Marek. (Nov 29, 2012)

sponcar said:


> Yup, http://www.034motorsport.com/engine-components-18t-coil-cover-18t-stainless-steel-p-516.html
> 
> I ended up selling it because i won't need it anymore.
> 
> ...


Ive read somewhere that the cover actually holds in the heat that is produced but what do I know lol


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Marek. said:


> Ive read somewhere that the cover actually holds in the heat that is produced but what do I know lol


It's intended for top mounted 'turbo shrines'; where the hotside of the turbo is effectively cooking the coils, and coil harness.

I'd wager that on a bottom mounted setup; it likely does more harm than good however.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Why he use KFMIOP to straighten out o2 correction?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

If your talking about optimal torque, then.yes. Cryser said it in multiple posts, and it workd.

Ive got a log somewhere, within 1% correction the entire pull. I canned the tune and started from scratch at one point, but the current tune will get there.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I know cryser posted it but to this day there is no evidence that optimal torque is a VE map. It is for torque intervention but I cannot see why it would have a direct effect on fueling. If you go on nefmoto and start the topic of using optimal torque for o2 correction ya better grab your flame suit.:laugh:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

02 correction within reason of course, trying to correct some thing over 5% then there is an issue elsewhere.

Ill post up my tune and logs to back up my theory once it works.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Update: 4/10/2013.

Car seem to be running good now. 
*I ordered a new timing belt kit along with the thermostat and housing which will be installed pretty soon.
*I installed an stage 3 suspension refresh kit from ecstuning.com.
*Got the car aligned.
*Installed a more agressive wheels than stock aristos.

Pics for those clicks. 
















































But now I'm facing some hardware issues.

It seems that the charge pipe that connects to the what it is suppose to replace the pancake pipe, is touching my passenger side axle. I found some damage to it when i was installing a new subframe and suspension refresh kit.

Pics of the silicone charge hose.



















It's either don't go too low or find a way to make my charge pipe don't sit too low, so i can have some clearance there.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Not much update beside that i have fixed little plastic things that keep breaking on me.
The other day, I had to tow it back home because my coolant flange where the tps meet up cracked pretty bad until the point it wouldn't hold the coolant. I fixed it and my faulty temperature sensor code went away.



I also, did a timing belt job to it.



Yesterday, I decided to take it to the 1/8mile track near my town. It was a free admission for the first 500 cars who arrived so I though It was great opportunity to see how's the improvement of the new set up.

BAD NEWS! I'm really frustrated since it wasn't the numbers I was expecting. I can't blame on the car because I know I have a laggy turbo who does not make much torque to get me to the end line in that 1/8 of mile. 

I could only get the car in first, second and third gear but nothing above to 5k rpms  Maybe the track was too short? I don't know. 
It was my first time at the track and I will try to work on some stuff in order to improve my timing. 

My best timing was 9.93 after hitting 10.28 and 10.4s with really bad r/t and launch.
I know for a fact that i need to work on my launch. Car was on street tires and suspension wasn't adjusted for a track day either. Weather was around 100s and it probably affect me to get things too hot.
















http://vimeo.com/73488786

9.93 at a 1/8mile from Raul Lemus on Vimeo.



In the list for future mods are:
-Heat wrap for downpipe and probably intercooler pipes.
-Water meth and play with timing to gain some torque.
-Activate my 2 step (trying to figure out how to since all the maestro updates make it look different than the tutorial thread).

Any input to improve would be grateful.


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## VW indahouse (Feb 25, 2012)

Love the stance you've got. Badass :beer:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I drove a wrecker, and can tell you one thing.

That driver is either stupid, or has a pan pillow. Mk4's are not wheel lift friendly despite many driver's that try to do it.

Check your oil pan for damage.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> I drove a wrecker, and can tell you one thing.
> 
> That driver is either stupid, or has a pan pillow. Mk4's are not wheel lift friendly despite many driver's that try to do it.
> 
> Check your oil pan for damage.


Correction

*Lowered *MK4's are not wheel lift friendly.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> I drove a wrecker, and can tell you one thing.
> 
> That driver is either stupid, or has a pan pillow. Mk4's are not wheel lift friendly despite many driver's that try to do it.
> 
> Check your oil pan for damage.





JohnnyAlpaca said:


> Correction
> 
> *Lowered *MK4's are not wheel lift friendly.


I know I was pretty scared about it but my friend told me he was familiar with low cars.
He drove it with the lifter pretty low. I checked for damage and so far it only hit my front valance when removing the lifter arms. 



VW indahouse said:


> Love the stance you've got. Badass :beer:


 Thanks man.

Btw dave, I haven't touched the maps you sent me. I'm still trying to figure out how to work with maestro but I haven't had enough time to do all the reading.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

9.9 @ 75? I think if ya focused a little less on stretch/slammed look you'd probably knock off almost a second off that ET and probably hit low 80's in the trap. I was hitting 8.9 @ 89 with a 60 of 2.3 with my aristos wrapped in rt615k's set to 20psi, that was my 3rd trip down the track on 50trim 63 a/r.

Not to take away from the fact that your car looks good but your sacrificing traction by choosing that stretch look.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

As an update, car was running like crap with race timing map on 91oct fuel :facepalm:
It has been a pain for the last couple of weeks and I've been spending a lot of time with maestro however I still can't figure out how to get it running properly.

Last night, I checked my spark plugs and their gap was wrong 0.40. So I gap them at 0.28 car feels slightly better but I have a bunch of cylinder correction as soon as my TB opens.

Can someone help me out to address this?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rive_web#gid=0

Is it that my power enrichment creates a lean mixture to the point that it will make my engine bump a lot of cylinder correction?

My timing maps are set too high that it will pull timing then cylinder will try to do correction to avoid any damage?

I have a 2 hours trip to do with this car today and I wouldn't like to damage anything.
I have currently set my boost at pressure wastegate 10psi.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I Dont think the link is set to public


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

Might be a dumb question, but when was the last time you pressure tested your intake tract, and have you seafoamed the exhaust?


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> I Dont think the link is set to public


How about this one?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKkZy24AX7NdGU2Uy0xT0JzMjJnWjJVdHdCUlFXQ0E&usp=sharing





[email protected] said:


> Might be a dumb question, but when was the last time you pressure tested your intake tract, and have you seafoamed the exhaust?


I have checked for boost leak last week and I didn't find any but seafoamed the exhaust since I installed the turbo. I haven't mess with the exhaust tho.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

You need to turn the timing down. The car is trying to run a lot more than what it can.

Power enrichment is fine. Its target map, not a correction.

The car is meeting the requesed lambda, albeit with a little more correction thn ideal.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> You need to turn the timing down. The car is trying to run a lot more than what it can.
> 
> Power enrichment is fine. Its target map, not a correction.
> 
> The car is meeting the requesed lambda, albeit with a little more correction thn ideal.


Dave, could you tell me how? Sorry man, I have been searching how to turn it down on quick setting but I can't find how. I noticed you can either move the timing advance from left to right but it starts from 0. I'm guessing left would be subtracting timing off the map while right is to add timing right? 
I tried it last night and dialed -1.5 I noticed less cylinder correction but I'm not sure if I'm doing it right.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Leave it at 0

Dont take this as an insult, but using Quicktune/Lemmiwinks is a real half ass way of tuning a car.

When you use either of those, it makes a 'Global' change. If you add or reduce the timing, it going to do it to the whole map.

That being said, make sure your car is on pump gas timing.

Make a run, use the histogram to see where its pulling timing and adjust accordingly.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Leave it at 0
> 
> Dont take this as an insult, but using Quicktune/Lemmiwinks is a real half ass way of tuning a car.
> 
> ...


No no it's not An insult since I'm learning and I'm picking info from people who knows more this.
One more noob question! What map should I histogram this?


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

sponcar said:


> What map should I histogram this?


 
Your Pump Gas Timing Map... Also make sure your not running your race gas timing map as Dave said above

If your tuning for your water/meth I personally wouldn't just run the race gas timing map as your not always spraying water/meth at idle and low loads...

Dave will get you on the correct path:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

new base file sent check your email hope it works out for ya. :thumbup:


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> new base file sent check your email hope it works out for ya. :thumbup:


Big thanks to you my man.:beer::heart:

Franklin has sent me a great file to start with. He's IC and bvc is more accurate than what I had.
I see my O2 correction under the +-4% at idle.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ZhNnRfaHBzazd3cnpoM3haTEE&usp=drive_web#gid=0

I flashed it to the car to see how it would react and on the first drive, it barely pulled timing correction on cylinder number 2 however it wasn't anything over -1.5.

I drove the car for about 2 hours on different type of roads, going up the hill, down the hill, flat and smooth roads, some slightly pulls up to 4krpms (nothing crazy). So I pulled over and connected maestro.

I noticed the car was pulling timing as before, I logged a pull in third gear at 10psi and this is what it looks like.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...h2ZFRfcjlfLWZ5cEU1N2dHRkE&usp=drive_web#gid=0

I know, I need to turn down my timing but I don't know the best way to smooth down the maps after applying changes. So I histogram my pump gas timing but I wouldn't want to do all the drastic changes to it. 

Should I slowly work it down in small changes or just histogram trace it and smooth down the cells next to where the changes have been made?

This is how my histogram average looks like:


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Well it's been a while since Last time I was working in the car therefore it has been sitting but ocacionally taken out for a drive down the street and blah. The other day I had time to get my hands on it and i decided to do a seafoam through intake. It came out to show the exhaust leak I had from exhaust manifold to turbo. Engine bay is A LOT quieter now but knocking hasn't gone away. Turbo spools faster and car doesn't feel as lazy as it was before. I'll try to do an oil pressure test this weekend which it would be my last shot. I have a feeling that a low oil pressure could give me a knocking sound and so trigger my knocking sensors (probably a clogged pickup screen? Who knows?!?).

This is driving me crazy and last thing I want to do it is abort the build. We will see what it comes out from this test.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

From looking at that log, trying to run 25° of timing at 9psi, on what I assume is catpiss pump gas, is why your knocking. Thats too much timing.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> From looking at that log, trying to run 25° of timing at 9psi, on what I assume is catpiss pump gas, is why your knocking. Thats too much timing.


How much timing do you think I should be safe with?


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## lazermkiv (Feb 28, 2010)

this an interesting thread. good luck:thumbup:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Use the histogram, make adjacent cells the same.

Make sure minimum timing map reflects those changes as well.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Okay, Franklin was kind enough to send me two different files with different timing curves.
One of them has a really accurate O2 correction the other one is a little bit off although they have the same IC and BVC, their O2 correction is not the same.

Since my last log was done with the file with off O2 correction, I decided to mess with it and see what i was able to do. I ended up lowering my timing and so lowering my knocking to almost a nothing on wot, however I still get some cylinder correction when car is not on boost and low rpms. I have taken a long log of 30mins drive that I will use to tweak some more.

This is how my timing map used to look but it does still needs some work.



Then I took it for a drive and this is the 30 mins log and I copy and pasted on a different excel file a third gear pull i did when logging.

*30mins log
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...VveU9ES1EtUmNSLW0xUWN0aUE&usp=drive_web#gid=0

3rd gear WOT
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...9ValZLeGZjYzBtM0VoRDgzLXc&usp=drive_web#gid=0


Now while reviewing the diffences between the files Franklin shared with me, the only different things I found that might have something to do with my ic and bvc are the egt threadhold, and enrich map delay.
How does these two thing can make so much difference into a smooth idle and get my O2 correction into the 5+-%?


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Okay, Franklin was kind enough to send me two different files with different timing curves.
One of them has a really accurate O2 correction the other one is a little bit off although they have the same IC and BVC, their O2 correction is not the same.

Since my last log was done with the file with off O2 correction, I decided to mess with it and see what i was able to do. I ended up lowering my timing and so lowering my knocking to almost a nothing on wot, however I still get some cylinder correction when car is not on boost and low rpms. I have taken a long log of 30mins drive that I will use to tweak some more.

This is how my timing map used to look but it does still needs some work.



Then I took it for a drive and this is the 30 mins log and I copy and pasted on a different excel file a third gear pull i did when logging.

*30mins log
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...VveU9ES1EtUmNSLW0xUWN0aUE&usp=drive_web#gid=0

3rd gear WOT
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...9ValZLeGZjYzBtM0VoRDgzLXc&usp=drive_web#gid=0


Now while reviewing the diffences between the files Franklin shared with me, the only different things I found that might have something to do with my ic and bvc are the egt threadhold, and enrich map delay.
How does these two thing can make so much difference into a smooth idle and get my O2 correction into the 5+-%?


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Also, if you guys have any input of why is my O2 correction staying at 0 sometimes?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Timing looks a lot better.

Reason for the corrections zeroing out is due to requested lambda being richer than the ecu can control.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

WOT load calculation is often different for setups that are mafless specifically when your exceeding MAP resolution. In your case I just made it a bit more conservative. Files that Tapp had for you would have been bad your load barely hit 170% at times which put you in a load range in your timing map that targeted an unsafe timing advance. I went mafless for a bit on the same file and I was running like 24-26* up top  that would ruin things for you in a short period of time. 

Also I said to use one for logging the other you use day to day. You make corrections to the maps in your log file, save file then save individual maps to your computer to add to the "finalized file". 0% correction is either your correction is maxed in an area (ECU assuming theres a problem with the reading) or your sensor is in fact crapped the bed. Use Injection correction do a full throttle from 1500 to midrange or topend if you feel up to it. That will take torque model out of the equation and you'll have an idea that its actually fuel related. Remember interpolation is a huge part of the map so be sure to smooth using +&- keys. You can choose to use both main and injection correction maps for WOT just try any make them smooth.

no problem mang :thumbup:


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

*Update:*

Car hasn't been driven too much, but I have been trying to narrow down my issue with timing pull. Anyways, after a lot of tweaks to the timing maps and still pull timing, I thought it could be a hardware issue. I bought myself an oil pressure and temperature gauge. BAM! I've been dealing with low oil pressure without knowing it. I installed the gauges and sensor then I noticed that my oil pressure was lower than 20psi and lately under 10psi on idle at normal temperatures. So i dropped the oil pan and this is what i found. Some sealant pieces floating around in my oil. Oil pickup screen didn't seem that bad but I replaced it anyways. I will put some oil tomorrow and see the results but before putting the oil pan back in its place, what do you guys think? Those dark spots inside my short block scare me at some point. I didn't find any metal pieces but sealant inside the pan.











and those sexy rods


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Can you post a copy of whatever file you are running right now?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

hmmmm odd if your concerned then send out the sample to a analyst. I've heard its like 15-20$ I've seen similar flakes of stuff like that in a teardown before, never figured out where it came from motor looked crisp. Hopefully you get that car finished and on the dyno next summer. Lemme know if you have any more questions:thumbup: I'm suprized the oil light didn't pop up I think you've caught it just in time before serious damage has been done. You can be surprised how much of a punishment these motors can take from serious mishaps (excluding timing belt related).


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## MNShortBus (Mar 14, 2008)

What oil were you using?


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Can you post a copy of whatever file you are running right now?


Will do once I get home.



Budsdubbin said:


> hmmmm odd if your concerned then send out the sample to a analyst. I've heard its like 15-20$ I've seen similar flakes of stuff like that in a teardown before, never figured out where it came from motor looked crisp. Hopefully you get that car finished and on the dyno next summer. Lemme know if you have any more questions:thumbup: I'm suprized the oil light didn't pop up I think you've caught it just in time before serious damage has been done. You can be surprised how much of a punishment these motors can take from serious mishaps (excluding timing belt related).


Seriously, some little things here and there that always make these small projects to take longer than expected. I hope i can get it ready by then..



MNShortBus said:


> What oil were you using?


Motor has 158xxx miles and I've been using mobil1 10w30 fully synthetic. 

The results were not what i was expecting but I noticed some improvement. I gained some pound of oil pressure but it's still pretty low. 
Any way to figure out if my oil pump is going bad?


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## MNShortBus (Mar 14, 2008)

sponcar said:


> Motor has 158xxx miles and I've been using mobil1 10w30 fully synthetic.
> 
> The results were not what i was expecting but I noticed some improvement. I gained some pound of oil pressure but it's still pretty low.
> Any way to figure out if my oil pump is going bad?


Reason I ask is because I have about 11-12 psi of oil pressure at idle on my build as well but it builds quick with the rpms. What is the oil pressure at 3K rpms?


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

That oil is too thin. Should be at least 10w-40. I like 15w-50 personally


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

^^This.

My old 16vt would turn 10w-40w into water. 15w-50w would bring the oil pressure right back in line too.

Quality of the oil has a lot to do with it. I woukd suggest brad penn or valvoline vr1 synthetic. Both have a very high zddp content.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

One thing I noticed, the rust on the v-band flange. I hope that was cleaned and some high temp antiseize was used at that flange... otherwise rust will blossom and the pressure caused by that + expansion/contraction will cause problems -- sealing lip or not.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MNShortBus said:


> Reason I ask is because I have about 11-12 psi of oil pressure at idle on my build as well but it builds quick with the rpms. What is the oil pressure at 3K rpms?


I'll double check but i think i seen somewhere in the 40-60 range.



[email protected] Performance said:


> That oil is too thin. Should be at least 10w-40. I like 15w-50 personally





Dave926 said:


> ^^This.
> 
> My old 16vt would turn 10w-40w into water. 15w-50w would bring the oil pressure right back in line too.
> 
> Quality of the oil has a lot to do with it. I woukd suggest brad penn or valvoline vr1 synthetic. Both have a very high zddp content.


I will try a thicker oil and see how that helps.

Dave this is the file loaded to the car at the moment. 
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8KkZy24AX7NNWM5ZG5RVUdlSE0/edit

Let me know if you can't see it.



gdoggmoney said:


> One thing I noticed, the rust on the v-band flange. I hope that was cleaned and some high temp antiseize was used at that flange... otherwise rust will blossom and the pressure caused by that + expansion/contraction will cause problems -- sealing lip or not.


Wow! you just pointed out to something I never though about it. I slightly sanded it off before installing it then I sprayed some high temp paint, however paint is gone now and probably the spots caught with rust are exposed by now.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

sponcar said:


> I'll double check but i think i see somewhere in the 40-60 range.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Been there -- done that. Rust between two things exerts an incredible amount of force, then combine that with the heating/cooling expansion/contraction.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

gdoggmoney said:


> Been there -- done that. Rust between two things exerts an incredible amount of force, then combine that with the heating/cooling expansion/contraction.


thanks for the advise, I'll take it a part and apply some anti size between the flanges.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Lot of things wrong with that file you posted.

First, the power enrichment map was requesting 12.0 AFR at 2000 RPM. This isnt a K03 lol. I set it start TAPERING fuel in around 2500 rpm (14.3:1), to 12.7:1 at 3500 rpm, to about 12.4:1 at 4000rpm. I also set the activation delay to 0.5s.

I left EGT protection threshold temp alone at 859*, and set the target fueling to reasonable (12.0:1) once it crosses that threshold, and a reasonable RPM/Load.

The absolute biggest issue with this file, besides 'blanket style' fueling, was 'timing mod over 100% load'.

The mod was clicked on, with absolutely waaaaay to much timing. Unless you are using E85/Race Gas, there is no need to turn that on. Even then, proper calibration of the target filling/optimum torque maps will no warrant the need for that 'hack'. Its a good way to send pistons through the oil pan.

I pulled the timing down a good amount, you probably wont see much more than 6-7* at peak load/rpm. I doubt with the catpiss 91oct you wont be able to run much more than that anyways.

Here is the file with the revisions I set forth. I would strongly suggest running it. And its here for anyone to critique as well.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwMf58LTPUUoZzVsMXJKRFF3X00/edit?usp=sharing

Post logs with this file once your able to


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

gdoggmoney said:


> Been there -- done that. Rust between two things exerts an incredible amount of force, then combine that with the heating/cooling expansion/contraction.


Gary, you still got all that stuff for sale? Damn man!


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

MNShortBus said:


> Reason I ask is because I have about 11-12 psi of oil pressure at idle on my build as well but it builds quick with the rpms. What is the oil pressure at 3K rpms?


It might be hard to tell but I see 60psi of oil pressure at 3k rpms.





Dave926 said:


> Lot of things wrong with that file you posted.
> 
> First, the power enrichment map was requesting 12.0 AFR at 2000 RPM. This isnt a K03 lol. I set it start TAPERING fuel in around 2500 rpm (14.3:1), to 12.7:1 at 3500 rpm, to about 12.4:1 at 4000rpm. I also set the activation delay to 0.5s.
> 
> ...


Thanks buddy, you're awesome. I will come back with results.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

I havent been following this thread however...
I see 14-16psi at idle(warm) and about 55psi at 3k.
Engine has IE rods and hybrid k04 and about 128k.
Running liquimolly 5w40. I consider my engine to be healthy and well taken car of but it would be nice to see the pressure at idle go up. Report back if you do something to improve your scenario. :beer:


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Twopnt016v said:


> I havent been following this thread however...
> I see 14-16psi at idle(warm) and about 55psi at 3k.
> Engine has IE rods and hybrid k04 and about 128k.
> Running liquimolly 5w40. I consider my engine to be healthy and well taken car of but it would be nice to see the pressure at idle go up. Report back if you do something to improve your scenario. :beer:


Will do.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

DMVDUB said:


> Gary, you still got all that stuff for sale? Damn man!


Yes. Much cheaper now.


I'm also willing to split just the manifold and downpipe if you want them. I can keep the 3076. It's a 4 bolt GT flange on the downpipe so any 3071/76 should work fine.

Also, end thread hijack! PM me if interested. I'm heading up to NoVA/MD this weekend!


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> Lot of things wrong with that file you posted.
> 
> First, the power enrichment map was requesting 12.0 AFR at 2000 RPM. This isnt a K03 lol. I set it start TAPERING fuel in around 2500 rpm (14.3:1), to 12.7:1 at 3500 rpm, to about 12.4:1 at 4000rpm. I also set the activation delay to 0.5s.
> 
> ...


His original issue was part throttle fueling and getting corrections dialed in. I did nothing with enrichment and full load lambda. I had no idea he was running 91oct so that timing curve was good enough on 93. One way or another I set this up as a better base for him to learn on. 

And the timing mod would have nothing to do with a higher timing advance.... Timing will not climb higher than what is in either kfzw and kfzw2.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> His original issue was part throttle fueling and getting corrections dialed in. I did nothing with enrichment and full load lambda. I had no idea he was running 91oct so that timing curve was good enough on 93. One way or another I set this up as a better base for him to learn on.
> 
> And the timing mod would have nothing to do with a higher timing advance.... Timing will not climb higher than what is in either kfzw and kfzw2.



I knew that was base file, that you provided some tweaks on, reason I made those points is simply to show how not to tune a car.

That timing mod forces the ecu to follow that timing map, so yes it results in more timing advance than one would typically see. 

Without that hack running, assuming the target filling and optimum torque maps are set correctly, timing actual is usually 3-4° less than the timing map. This is due to other conditions, such as the timing difference between the crank and camshaft. 

Even with 93 octane, there would be a lot of timing pull. 

I will state again, that timing mod should not be used unless your running ethanol or race fuel, and trying to make dyno queen numbers


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Timing actual is usually 3-4* less then the timing map when the model influence is active? ...How? Just trying to understand your thinking.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Budsdubbin said:


> Timing actual is usually 3-4* less then the timing map when the model influence is active? ...How? Just trying to understand your thinking.


dzwoag, dzwol, dzwkg, dzwwl, dzwob, wkrdy, and dwkr are all added to output of the the timing map. Last 3 are overboost, knock related, but all the others are based on various conditions.

To see the difference log zwnws and zwout.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Actually this is not the file frank gave me. I tried tweaking the timing map multiple times but I believe my issue was trying to make thing smooth with the cells around those I tweaked. 
I bought a 225tt Maf sensor from Steve and I was going to try a Maf file assuming Maf would help keep things under control at some point. So I talked to him about the issue and he revised my file, he also advised me to start with a 550cc base file since 550cc perform different than the Siemens 630s so base maps wouldnt set me to far from the good start.
So in other words, that's the file I post since it is the last one loaded to the car however you guys are sharing some good information. Thank you.

I'll finally take the car for a drive and take some logs today. I will get back with results and some data.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> Timing actual is usually 3-4* less then the timing map when the model influence is active? ...How? Just trying to understand your thinking.





elRey said:


> dzwoag, dzwol, dzwkg, dzwwl, dzwob, wkrdy, and dwkr are all added to output of the the timing map. Last 3 are overboost, knock related, but all the others are based on various conditions.
> 
> To see the difference log zwnws and zwout.


Exactly what I was getting at, though I am not familar with all of them. Reading those flow charts, and even the translated modules makes my head spin. The timing mod for over 100% load effectively tells the ecu to ignore them.

Consider this, timing belt stretch. Varies with engine load, rpm, temperature etc. ECU compensates for that, and I believe block 90-something will show this.



sponcar said:


> Actually this is not the file frank gave me. I tried tweaking the timing map multiple times but I believe my issue was trying to make thing smooth with the cells around those I tweaked.
> I bought a 225tt Maf sensor from Steve and I was going to try a Maf file assuming Maf would help keep things under control at some point. So I talked to him about the issue and he revised my file, he also advised me to start with a 550cc base file since 550cc perform different than the Siemens 630s so base maps wouldnt set me to far from the good start.
> So in other words, that's the file I post since it is the last one loaded to the car however you guys are sharing some good information. Thank you.
> 
> I'll finally take the car for a drive and take some logs today. I will get back with results and some data.


Problem with the file was 'Timing Mod over 100% Load"

If you really want to maximize your hardware, your fuel type is going to be a major handicap. E85, race gas (not practical) or a well thought out WMI setup are your only options.

Cant wait to see the logs:thumbup:


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Exactly what I was getting at, though I am not familar with all of them. Reading those flow charts, and even the translated modules makes my head spin. The timing mod for over 100% load effectively tells the ecu to ignore them.
> 
> Consider this, timing belt stretch. Varies with engine load, rpm, temperature etc. ECU compensates for that, and I believe block 90-something will show this.
> 
> ...





Oh now I'm understanding what is the Timing mod for. Well the file you sent me worked awesome for being a first shot. Only "issues" i can feel/tell is on part throttle, when slightly touching the gas pedal on normal driving to be more specific, the car jerks and I see my wideband gauge from 14.x to lean then it feels like hitting a brick. It might be my foot that doesn't keep the gas pedal steady. Anyways, another thing I found is when the a/c is on the timing pull is a little bit higher 1-2* other than that, car feels pretty solid and smooth power.

I took the car for a spin last night then when I was about to log, computer was death :facepalm: but I drove it to work today and took this log.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...hubzhGQ0hkMFIyTnFodUR5dmc&usp=drive_web#gid=0


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

elRey said:


> dzwoag, dzwol, dzwkg, dzwwl, dzwob, wkrdy, and dwkr are all added to output of the the timing map. Last 3 are overboost, knock related, but all the others are based on various conditions.
> 
> To see the difference log zwnws and zwout.


I understand but to say that actual ignition timing will run 3-4* below base is ridiculous. Only if iop, irl, kwfz, kwfz2 are muffed up should you see problems with intervention assuming the maf is calibrated and displacement(maybe rotational weight to some degree) is unchanged. Dave are you trying to imply that torque intervention is a normality? these maps are simply references for the torque model(excluding irl of course). Now I don't have the use of my laptop at the moment to get into detail so I apologize.

Is the timing mod the correct way to go? Depends on what your dealing with but for the most part no.... But if you are experiencing problems that are not knock related I dont see the harm in it, you have knock correction for a reason.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Budsdubbin said:


> Is the timing mod the correct way to go? Depends on what your dealing with but for the most part no.... But if you are experiencing problems that are not knock related I dont see the harm in it, you have knock correction for a reason.


Hardware issues maybe? I know my oil pressure is low at idle but once rpms go up the pressure reach the normal specs.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Budsdubbin said:


> I understand but to say that actual ignition timing will run 3-4* below base is ridiculous. Only if iop, irl, kwfz, kwfz2 are muffed up should you see problems with intervention assuming the maf is calibrated and displacement(maybe rotational weight to some degree) is unchanged. Dave are you trying to imply that torque intervention is a normality? these maps are simply references for the torque model(excluding irl of course). Now I don't have the use of my laptop at the moment to get into detail so I apologize.
> 
> Is the timing mod the correct way to go? Depends on what your dealing with but for the most part no.... But if you are experiencing problems that are not knock related I dont see the harm in it, you have knock correction for a reason.



Its not ridiculous. Tune the car correctly. I can guarantee a stock car doesnt follow the timing map exactly either.

Read the fr, section zue and review the flowchart. Torquw intervention isnt the only factor.

Research all the variabkes listed by elrey

Spon,

Logs look really good. Timing pull is far more reasonable.

As far as the weird stuff happening, no idea.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

*Update*

I decided to replace the oil pick up screen, oil pump and fill up the engine with Mobil1 15w50 in order to see if I could help the oil pressure issue I have.

This is what I found.









New oil pump.





I filled up the engine with mobil1 15w 50 and bosch filter. I prime the car while disconnecting the fuel pump fuse and coilpacks, then I cranked the car and it started up right on.
Ticking noise didn't go away. So I disconnect each coilpack while running to see if the noise would go away but it didn't.

I let the car running and got myself under the car and I used a long screwdriver as a stethoscope to find out where the noise was coming from. By placing the screwdriver across the oil pan, the noise is louder on the passenger side near the crank pulley. 

I checked my timing belt and this is how it looks.







Timing marks doesn't seem right to me but probably i'm reading them wrong.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Make sure crank is top dead center(if you pass the timing mark on the crank by over spinning it and you turn back counter clockwise or you will be off). If your crank is dead on right now then yes your off a tooth on the crank or couple teeth on the cam gear. If the marks are off like a hair (almost like a half to a quarter of a tooth on the cam gear that isn't a big deal, you should be on).


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

I was going to replace my cam tensioner and I found what could be the issue for my low oil pressure.

Both camshafts have some wear damage and they look pretty bad.












My friend, who's a mechanic and has a vrt, advised me to just get a new motor because he thinks the bottom end will be with same sort of damages.
I would like to re-use my bottom end because I had the connecting rods but I don't have the funds to rebuilt a motor at this moment.

What is the less expensive way to get around this one. Replace the whole motor? What could be the possibilities to just be able to replace the heads?

I'm lost when it comes to internals, some help and advise would be appreciated it.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Wow that head is trashed. Were you using different cam caps from a different head or is it an oiling issue

I would drop pan and check bearings ect on the bottom end


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

I was dealing with a low oil pressure. Oil pump and pick up screen were replaced but it didn't make any difference on the oil pressure. The pick up screen wasn't clogged nor metal pieces were found in the oil pan when I replaced the oil pump. We are dropping the pan today to check the bearings and see if we can use the bottom end still. If bearings were messed up, can I still use the connecting rods? Maybe send then to a machine shop to be able to reuse them?
Or they will most likely be trash if bearings and crank are all scored as how the camshafts are?


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

sponcar said:


> I was dealing with a low oil pressure. Oil pump and pick up screen were replaced but it didn't make any difference on the oil pressure. The pick up screen wasn't clogged nor metal pieces were found in the oil pan when I replaced the oil pump. We are dropping the pan today to check the bearings and see if we can use the bottom end still. If bearings were messed up, can I still use the connecting rods? Maybe send then to a machine shop to be able to reuse them?
> Or they will most likely be trash if bearings and crank are all scored as how the camshafts are?


Connecting rods should be fine but rod bearings may be trashed. Oil pumps on out cars are pretty stout.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Connecting rods should be fine but rod bearings may be trashed. Oil pumps on out cars are pretty stout.


The knocking noise wasn't that loud but it would annoyed me when sitting on idle. Car was still strong on low boost so I would guess I still had good compressions. If the rod bearings are trashed, can I just replace them and swap new heads? or should I dig more on the bottom end and take everything a part?

I have a feeling that my old shop who put the engine together did a poor quality job on machining the heads. I will talk to them and see what they think about this damage. Car has never been driven hard maybe some pulls once in a while but I have never passed redline in between my shifts so I don't see how it could be damaged. I would get the same oil pressure with my old oil pump and new one when I replaced it, so to my eyes, oil pump wasn't the issue. I did noticed a difference once I put a heavy oil on the engine.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

That looks like genuine contamination of the oil right there.

If you want to risk it, get New bearings all around and a new head.

Otherwise start with a well known bottom end, swap the rods and call it good.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

I couldn't come to check the car at the shop today but my friend said that he pulled out the rod bearings and he is impressed that all of them look great. They dont have scoring marks.

He stick to the idea to get a new long block instead. 

I'll try to get pics tomorrow


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Update: Bottom end was impressively great to what we found in the camshafts. So We sent the heads to the machine shop to see what would they advised me to do. So far we flushed the engine, installed used but in good condition camshafts, bearings, cam tensioner, and oil pump. The ticking noise is gone, engine sounds pretty smooth and I don't get any timing pull with a very close to base file from maestro at 15psi. 
I noticed I get a little close to 20psi of oil pressure which it makes me wonder If that would be normal for a 160k miles block with 10w 30 fully syntetic?


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

I found a long block with roughly 80k miles on it. Car was totaled 2 years ago but I found out the car has been sitting outside without hood and a car cover. Engine has water marks from rain, I would guess. I can't turn the car on because all the fuse from battery have been cut. 
I talked to the guy selling the engine, If I could open the engine to see if it is something that can be put back on the road with little work and he's okay with that. So I was thinking remove spark plugs and oil pan to see if there is any metal shaving or sign of water into the engine. What or where else would you check to convince yourself the engine is good to go with little work?

Any advise would be greatly appreciate it.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

*Waking up this thread again*



After 5months or so, engine still runs and it has pretty good compressions but it does still have low oil pressure.:laugh:

Anyways, I have tried everything possible to give up to this motor but everything I have tried it is not helping at all.

Last Saturday, I decided to replace the oil filter housing since there is an oil pressure relief valve in there and I though it could be bad and allowing to do not build any pressure. I noticed some improvements but not enough to fix my issue. 
My oil pressure gauge goes over 70psi on higher revs now which it didn't happen when I had the old oil filter housing.

It looked pretty clean or at least no too dirty to cause issues.





Intake runners look in pretty descent shape.











Now my only conclusion can be that the guy who build it left so much clearance in the bearings. I would like to give this motor the last shot but I was wondering what bearings should I put if i replace them?

I'm learning from all the issues in this motor and taking some experience from it; you can call it my guinea pig since it is the first motor I have been brave enough to open it and do some internal work myself on it. 
Are they all standard size? What's the clearance I should gapped them to? (I will use the green plastic gauge).

Anyways, if that does not work out I have new ideas in mind and some parts to get it done.
Stroker kit. 2008cc

So far, I have the FSI crank with its pressed in gear from Integrated engineering.



20mm IE Tuscan connecting rods and arp head bolts.




All I need is pistons, bearings, headgasket for the stroker kit, fluids and machine work.

Question, can I use this same block which has 160k? and buy new heads or should I buy a new engine with less mileage instead?

Reason I'm asking this is because the new engine should be close to $1,000.00 that I could use in a machine work instead.

PS: If I happen to be able to save this engine with the bearing replacement, it will eventually be used to swap it in a mk2 with a k04 turbo.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Use your old block. Get a fresh re-hone and have it inspected. You should be fine. Clean it up and put some fresh engine paint on it.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

The only thing I can suggest is that in previous logs I remember you having a ton of timing pull.

I wonder if the tune issues you had previously led to you hammering the bearings


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> The only thing I can suggest is that in previous logs I remember you having a ton of timing pull.
> 
> I wonder if the tune issues you had previously led to you hammering the bearings


Are you suggesting to go head and replace the bearings and see if that helps? Even though im planning to build another motor I would really love to find out what was wrong with this build for my own piece of mind. By the way I was reading somewhere that if the knocking sound (like diesel) only can be heard when car is on idle or when letting off the gas pedal it is most likely to be the bad main bearings. 

Answering your question, yes I have a feeling that it was the case. I ran almost 20psi on base file without logging for quiet some time. Car used to pull way harder at 15psi than what it did at 20psi when I finally noticed the issue.

I will be requesting your services to dial me a tune. 
I will be keeping the same turbo until I can do lsd in my transmission. I will also upgrade to 1000cc injectors to do not limit myself in the future.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I would suggest even just checking clearances before replacing. I would start with the rods and go from there.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> I would suggest even just checking clearances before replacing. I would start with the rods and go from there.


I will try to do it tomorrow on my day off.

By the way, I only have the bentley from a 1999-2000 mkiv. I know the AWW and AWP engines are slightly different than the AWD engine which is narrowband but I'm assuming the torque specs for internals would be the same, right?

I will check my clearance based on this information.







Please, correct me if I'm wrong.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Hey bud I have a later manual. I'm going to double check for you now.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

gdoggmoney said:


> Hey bud I have a later manual. I'm going to double check for you now.


I was called to do some extra hours at work today so i couldnt work on the car but man that would be awesome just to be in the safe side.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Sorry I spaced heading out to garage to check now.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)




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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)




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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)




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