# 1.8T (06a) Narrowband to Wideband Conversion Done Easy!



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

vwvortex has gone to hell. If you are interested in this DIY please use google. It can be found on other sites.


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## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

Great writeup! Used this on Saturday when I did mine. Keep up the good work Jwalker!


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Thanks...Did you get her fired up then? Everything go together smoothly?


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

bump for PMs


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

nice work, man!


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Thanks^^^


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## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

jwalker1.8 said:


> Thanks...Did you get her fired up then? Everything go together smoothly?


Everything went pretty well, I do throw this code though:

16396 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Advance Setpoint not Reached (Over-Retarded) 
P0012 - 35-00 - - 

I have not been able to find much information on it, timing is spot on so I think it has to do with the VVT, maybe my resistor is not doing its job? Or would be be throwing another code? I will try to stick another resistor in there this week.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

did you do anything else besides the rewire? Did you touch your timing belt or anything else? Basically it is a timing code. What resistor did you use?


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## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

jwalker1.8 said:


> did you do anything else besides the rewire? Did you touch your timing belt or anything else? Basically it is a timing code. What resistor did you use?


When I put the new ECU in all I did was re-wire, I started throwing the code the same day after a few starts (I believe it lights up if it detects a problem after 3 starts)

A few weeks after I did the conversion I changed my timing belt and all the goodies with that, checked timing and it was spot on, still threw the code.

I am using a 25w 15ohm resistor, I have a few extra that I am going to try to see if it is a faulty resistor. Other than that I don't really know what it could be besides the wiring. I will try to find some more information to that code being related to the VVT and post it on here for others.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Sounds to me like you should double check your wiring to the 115 pin. What ecu did you use? (year, car, engine code) Where are you getting power for the resistor from? Same place as my DIY?


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## Malant (Aug 30, 2004)

Yeah I am pretty sure it has to do with VVT, prob take a look at everything this weekend. As far as power I used the same source you used in your writeup. Going to start with the resistor though so I don't have to pull the ECU harness if I don't need to. I will put up some information when I find out whatever the culprit is.:thumbup:


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Any word on the resistor problem. id like to do this swap on a 2000 AWD 1.8t. Why can't you just disable the VVT function with vag-com?


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

Can't with Vag com but you can with Eurodyne.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

iTech said:


> Can't with Vag com but you can with Eurodyne.


 That is good enough for me! 

Can you just skip the VVT wiring stuff if you have the VVT disabled? I have a non VVT motor so it wouldnt make sense to go through all the resistor wiring stuff if you can just disable the function in the ECU.


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

confused about the avap selenoid wiring 


is the evap selenoid in obove picture #1? or is it the N80 valve?


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> That is good enough for me!
> 
> Can you just skip the VVT wiring stuff if you have the VVT disabled? I have a non VVT motor so it wouldnt make sense to go through all the resistor wiring stuff if you can just disable the function in the ECU.


 The resistor takes an extra 5 minutes to install and costs about $1.00


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

jwalker1.8 said:


> The resistor takes an extra 5 minutes to install and costs about $1.00


 I get that part. I have resistored plenty of other stuff in my bay like SAI + EVAP. 

My point was that it isn't worth going through the trouble of resistoring anything if your software is just going to write over the code anyways.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Just stating the way I did it and that is all. Report back when you are done as to whether or not it worked out properly if you do not resistor. I am curious to know.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

jwalker1.8 said:


> Just stating the way I did it and that is all. Report back when you are done as to whether or not it worked out properly if you do not resistor. I am curious to know.


 AFAIK disabling VVT would cause the ECU to not even read the resistance from the VVT harness so a resistor or wiring in general would be unecessary. Same thing for SAI + EVAP if you can get your tuner to delete those codes.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Yes, but are the tuners actually disabling the VVT, SAI, Evap or just deleting the CEL you get from them? Why is it you still need to have the evap solenoid plugged or resistored once you have the delete to get adaptive fueling? 

Like I said, report back how it goes.

From what I gathered from the various tuners I spoke to, the ecu is still looking for the vvt, evap, whatever...it just will no longer throw the code and this is why fuel trims will not adapt without something in place.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

How do the general boush widebands from autoparts stores compare to the OEM VW order wideands? I got no problem saving and spending the money on the OEM sensor if it's worth the extra cash, but if the same readings can be gotten just as accurately for $50 from say pepboys I rather save the money.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

I use the Bosch one with no problem


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Cryser said:


> How do the general boush widebands from autoparts stores compare to the OEM VW order wideands? I got no problem saving and spending the money on the OEM sensor if it's worth the extra cash, but if the same readings can be gotten just as accurately for $50 from say pepboys I rather save the money.


I would stick with the bosch they aren't that expensive.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

jwalker1.8 said:


> Yes, but are the tuners actually disabling the VVT, SAI, Evap or just deleting the CEL you get from them? Why is it you still need to have the evap solenoid plugged or resistored once you have the delete to get adaptive fueling?
> 
> Like I said, report back how it goes.
> 
> From what I gathered from the various tuners I spoke to, the ecu is still looking for the vvt, evap, whatever...it just will no longer throw the code and this is why fuel trims will not adapt without something in place.


The reason I brought up the VVT sensor in the beginning is because I would like to avoid the code if possible either by successfully resistoring it, deleting the code with software, or possibly both.

SAI and EVAP do not affect fuel trims. SAI is supposed to lean out your system to heat the car up faster on cold starts. The ECU will still read fuel trims on cold start and make a rough calculation using water temp and 02 sensor readings. If the pump is resistored then the ECU will think it is pumping air even though it isnt for a period of about 1-2 min on cold start. The only change will be that it should take slightly longer for your car to warm up when it is cold.

EVAP should not affect fuel trims whatsoever. It is just a piggyback on your stock vacuum system to keep track of excess gasoline vapors and make sure they make their way back to the gas tank and not into the atmosphere. Pretty much a worthless piece of crap just like all the other unnecessary vacuum crap in the 1.8T engine bay. 

VVT is also an emissions control device. It is supposed to adjust timing for a cleaner burn, but if you disable it then the ECU will never try to adjust for that function. Aftermarket software is written based on specific fueling tables calibrated during mostly WOT runs to achieve optimum AFR's at peak boost levels. Even if you swapped to a VVT capable head and wired up the VVT sensor, it would not affect the software fueling tables because VVT is not going to engage during wide open throttle run. At WOT the ECU is requesting max air + max fuel for the most power. Even a stock ECU would not try to engage the VVT function at WOT, because it would work directly against what the driver is requesting which is max power. 

At cruising speeds VVT makes sense, but for software tables it should not be a factor. I hope this helps some. VVT or no VVT it should not affect the way the car runs. It is just a useless emissions function like SAI + EVAP.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

First off I would suggest you just delete this whole post all together...incorrect info.

I think you missed the point. I said the tuners delete the check engine light not the fact that the ecu is looking for these things. Even though the evap may not be directly related to adaptive fueling the ecu still looks for that device to make sure it is working properly before it's fuel trims adapt. Go outside and unplug your evap solenoid once and then use vagcom to check your fuel trims. Your ecu will not adapt and you will throw a code.

Now hypothetically lets say you already have evap delete...then you go outside and do the same thing...you won't get a check engine light this time but your fuel trims won't adapt still...why? because the tuner is just deleting the CEL *NOT* the function.


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

jwalker1.8 said:


> because the tuner is just deleting the CEL *NOT* the function.


Quoted for truth, The ECU still needs the circuit to be connected for it to function properly. 

Putting a resistor in line is the easiest way of doing so.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

jwalker1.8 said:


> First off I would suggest you just delete this whole post all together...incorrect info.
> 
> I think you missed the point. I said the tuners delete the check engine light not the fact that the ecu is looking for these things. Even though the evap may not be directly related to adaptive fueling the ecu still looks for that device to make sure it is working properly before it's fuel trims adapt. Go outside and unplug your evap solenoid once and then use vagcom to check your fuel trims. Your ecu will not adapt and you will throw a code.
> 
> Now hypothetically lets say you already have evap delete...then you go outside and do the same thing...you won't get a check engine light this time but your fuel trims won't adapt still...why? because the tuner is just deleting the CEL *NOT* the function.


I have a resistor on my EVAP harness. No matter what you will still throw an incorrect flow code for EVAP with or without the resistor just like you will throw an incorrect flow code after SAI removal with or without a resistor. 

The code you are referring to would be a "pump missing" or "open circuit" code which does happen if you don't add a resistor.

Disconnect all of the EVAP hoses from the motor. Cap the open vacuum port on top of the throttle body. Resistor the EVAP harness and be on your merry way. It's been done for 2 years now with no problems. My SAI pump doesnt even have a resistor on it and the car runs exactly the same b/c even if you still have the SAI pump, it will only run for a minute or so on true cold starts. I live in Miami so unless I get up at 6AM the ambient air temperature isnt even low enough for the ECU to trigger a true "cold start" warmup cycle with the high RPM idle.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> I get that part. I have resistored plenty of other stuff in my bay like SAI + EVAP.
> 
> My point was that it isn't worth going through the trouble of resistoring anything if your software is just going to write over the code anyways.



this statement is what I was referring to. The resistor isn't to get rid of the code...it is to keep the ecu thinking that there is an item in place that really is not.






AmIdYfReAk said:


> Quoted for truth, The ECU still needs the circuit to be connected for it to function properly.
> 
> *Putting a resistor in line is the easiest way of doing so.*


True...for the VVT delete...which is relevant to this thread.


for evap delete (unrelated to the op of the thread) I just keep the solenoid plugged in (no soldering involved)


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

Is there any information about which wideband ECU is compatible with a certain narrowband...I´m looking to do this conversion too,but i don´t know which wideband ecu to buy.I have an AJQ engine(europe, audi tt).

Great DIY..really hoping to do this soon!


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

I don't know much about that motor setup at all, 

But is the car Drive by wire?


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

well,it´s a 1999 audi TT,FWD,it is DBW,has the r32 throttle body right now with rmr intake..it is a non-VVT,non SAI,small port,narrowband,with mapsensor.

But there are so many different ecu's with probably that many different wiring...how to figure out which one is good for my set up...that's the thing i don't know..how did you guys figured it out?


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Well, on my car (I did this write up) I looked at the Bently manual and looked at the wiring diagrams. The car I did it on was a 2001 Audi TT and the ecu I used was from a 2004 Jetta with automatic transmition. 

From what I have gathered all of the USA models with 06a motors use the same wiring for the oxygen sensors and vvt. 

The people you should ask this question to are the people doing your tuning. IF they say there is no problem then go for it.


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

The people who did my tuning havn´t done a thing like this...no experience with it,so no good advice from them..

But,if i buy a bentley manual with the wiring of a wideband and compare it with mine,i guess i could see the differences..so it´s all about the pin out of the two ecu connectors right?..
if the wiring is different,for example,pin [email protected] is for injector and the wideband uses it for rpm signal,i could swap the pins and be good to go right?


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

I can not say for certain one way or the other but in theory it should work.


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## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

Great thread :thumbup:


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Thanks!


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

so i studied the pin out of the ajq ecu,and compared it to a 2005 ARY wideband ecu pin out..and i noticed some differences.

pin 61 NB=for the coolingfan
WB= G235= sensor for EGT
pin 66 NB= nothing
WB= SAI
pin 9 NB= nothing
WB=N112
pin69 NB= nothing
WB=G130=2e Lambdasensor
pin 68 NB=Nothing
WB=G130=2e Lambdasensor
pin 63 NB=nothing
WB=Z29=2e lambdasensor heating
pin 62 NB=nothing
WB=J569=a relay for brakes?..i believe this is for quattro only but don't know for sure

And there werea few more..Pin 121, pin 21.

My question is do you had the same differences,or was everything the same except for the VVT and wideband O2?..


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Is it possible for you to look at getting an ecu from an earlier year car? Like a 2002? Possibly less differences (just a guess). But to answer your question, I did not notice any differences except the ones addressed in this write up

EDIT: what is the ARY out of?


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

I have a program called elsawin..it´s a database with every repair/maintenance manual and all electronic wiring diagrams,i have to fill in the car/type and year and motorcode..so i picked an audi TT from 2005 with morocode ARY,figured that one got a wideband for sure..and compared all the pin outs..i can also pick a 2002 car,i'll try that

which motorcode was yours?and from which motorcode did you get the wideband?
maybe i can compare the two,and see why yours worked so good.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

My car was a 2001 TT AMU...Donor ecu was a 2004 Jetta AWP


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

Just took apart my harness as per DIY and both pins are already there. So this will not work on new beetle APH engine code  Probably whole harness needs to be changed.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Which pins were already there? Which harness did you take apart?


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

pin 52 and 71 as per the DIY are already taken on my ecu harness, they already exist for something else, i havent investigated them for what but they are already there. 1999 nb 1.8t aph engine 5 spd. Also the new ECU i got would not fit into the harness, its slightly different. 

tried a 2003 gti ecu, had it immo defeated and everything. Wish i would have checked before i got all the parts :banghead:


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Im doing the swap on Friday I really hope I don't run into any of these problems. 

New ECU is from a 2005 1.8t AWP. My car is a 2000 1.8t AWD engine code.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

FastAndFurious said:


> pin 52 and 71 as per the DIY are already taken on my ecu harness, they already exist for something else, i havent investigated them for what but they are already there. 1999 nb 1.8t aph engine 5 spd. Also the new ECU i got would not fit into the harness, its slightly different.
> 
> tried a 2003 gti ecu, had it immo defeated and everything. Wish i would have checked before i got all the parts :banghead:


 
That sucks. On the bright side that ecu (assuming you don't figure out how to make it work) will sell very fast.


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

jwalker1.8 said:


> That sucks. On the bright side that ecu (assuming you don't figure out how to make it work) will sell very fast.


 I do have the corresponding engine harnesses with the ecu as backup, do i need to change both harneses or just the side where the 02 sensors go?


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

FastAndFurious said:


> I do have the corresponding engine harnesses with the ecu as backup, do i need to change both harneses or just the side where the 02 sensors go?


 In this scenario I can't be 100% certain. If you had the wiring diagram it would be best (yet tedious) to double check everything and go from there.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

I just double checked Jwalker's instructions by cross referencing the wiring diagrams for the 1.8t AWD and 1.8t AWP motors in my Bentley manual. Everything seems to check out fine. I would not advise paying much attention to the colors of the wires on your existing harness b/c there seems to be some variation in the wire colors but the PIN #'s for the wires are spot on. My new ECU is going in friday morning. Ill post up results once I finish. I still need to pick up some 22 gauge wire to run the 2 new wires into the engine bay.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> I would not advise paying much attention to the colors of the wires on your existing harness b/c there seems to be some variation in the wire colors but the PIN #'s for the wires are spot on.


As stated in the original post



jwalker1.8 said:


> (wire colors vary from some years and ecu but the pin out remains the same from the research I have done)


Regardless, good luck with the conversion.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

The swap went off without a hitch. I am noticing the issue of the radiator fans running constantly. I may have to disconnect Pin 61 I believe it is to correct that issue. I plan on comparing the wiring diagrams for the AWD and AWP cooling fans tomorrow to find out the best solution.


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## onelightmind (Oct 6, 2010)

Bump... so what's going on...super noob here and need to do this for a big turbo build


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

just sent you an email


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> The swap went off without a hitch. I am noticing the issue of the radiator fans running constantly. I may have to disconnect Pin 61 I believe it is to correct that issue. I plan on comparing the wiring diagrams for the AWD and AWP cooling fans tomorrow to find out the best solution.


 I disconnected pin 61 from my AWD harness and the fans are operating normally. Thanks jwalker. Now time to swap in the big turbo hardware and we should be good to go.


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## Chunki84 (Dec 18, 2008)

I need to order BT software, so I am thinking I buy and upgrade with wideband ecu.
you said, "My car was a 2001 TT AMU...Donor ecu was a 2004 Jetta AWP"
same with me. so, for sure,
If I have 2001 tt amu, I can go with 2004 jetta AWP?
all amu ecu parts number are same?
Mine is finish with "k" I think..
and I don't need to care parts number for awp?
I found one 06A 906 032 RN for awp but it seems jetta 02~05.. 
even from 02, will it be wideband?
Is it ok to swap quattro to non quattro?


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

^^^^everything you said is right on...should work just the same as mine did.


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## Chunki84 (Dec 18, 2008)

thank..
and.
Which one do I need to do first?
this is what I thought
obviously, I need to buy wide band ecu first,
and doing wideband conversion second in case I mass up wiring and burn ecu, so
I don't need to pay for software again.
and finally buying software?

I also have question here.. obviously, the ecu is for jetta awp.
so, do I need to order software for jetta? or tt?


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

well, you need to have this DIY done before you can plug in your new ecu...so it doesn't matter which you get first since you need the conversion, the software, and the ecu for it to work.

You will tell the software company what kind of car you have currently and that you are doing the wideband conversion and also tell them what car the ecu came from...the software company will take care of the rest.

Let me know if you need a conversion harness, I have one left and it goes for $45 shipped (in the united states)


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## Chunki84 (Dec 18, 2008)

*um..*

thanks again.
I am talking with guy who works for apr about bt software.
I will tell you I buy conversion kit whether or not as soon as I got email.

One more, is it ok I go with apr bt software, right?


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## Chunki84 (Dec 18, 2008)

OMG!
APR said they can not put audi tt software into jetta ecu..
I have to find buy maestro 7, I guess..


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Maestro is MUCH better than APR in my opinion


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## Chunki84 (Dec 18, 2008)

so, if I buy stock awp ecu and maestro 7.
What do I need to put on audi tt software to awp ecu?
I will run apr gt2871r setup with 550cc


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

As stated before



jwalker1.8 said:


> You will tell the software company what kind of car you have currently and that you are doing the wideband conversion and also tell them what car the ecu came from...the software company will take care of the rest.
> 
> Let me know if you need a conversion harness, I have one left and it goes for $45 shipped (in the united states)


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

robbyrr said:


> The people who did my tuning havn´t done a thing like this...no experience with it,so no good advice from them..
> 
> But,if i buy a bentley manual with the wiring of a wideband and compare it with mine,i guess i could see the differences..so it´s all about the pin out of the two ecu connectors right?..
> if the wiring is different,for example,pin [email protected] is for injector and the wideband uses it for rpm signal,i could swap the pins and be good to go right?


You should know how to read a wiring diagram before you do Anything. In theory this is not a complicated task. Jwalker has done most of the work for you. 

I double checked this entire DIY before I started cutting or soldering anything on my car and it checked out fine with the wiring diagrams in the Bentley. (My car is a 2000 Jetta 1.8T AWD engine code). Transmission type should not affect any of the ECU pins that are implicated in this DIY.


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

Are your harness the same as race lands conversion:beer:


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

01ttgt28 said:


> Are your harness the same as race lands conversion:beer:


link?


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

*raceline wire solutions*

http://www.raceline-ws.com/rlwa_18_adapter:)


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

01ttgt28 said:


> http://www.raceline-ws.com/rlwa_18_adapter:)



Yes, the one listed on their site for $125 + shipping (CANADIAN) does the same exact thing as the one I sell for $45 (USD) shipped.

Only real difference is theirs has an adapter which is actually pretty nice so with theirs you splice 2 wires instead of 6...In all honesty though, I could make one identical to that one for $65-75 shipped (not that I am interested in doing this)....also, in my opinion why even bother paying them 3 times my price just to not have to slice a couple more wires? It takes 10 minutes to splice 4 extra wires tops, not worth the extra $80 plus shipping charges to me.


For reference 

Raceland's ($125 Canadian plus shipping)










Mine ($45 shipped USD)










Honestly, I have one of these left here at my house and will not be making more after this one is gone unless I have an order for 5+...Haven't sold and for over a month...think that market is pretty much tapped out for now.


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## Raceline-WS (Oct 18, 2010)

*http://www.raceline-ws.com/rlwa_18_adapter*



01ttgt28 said:


> http://www.raceline-ws.com/rlwa_18_adapter:)


The link wasn't working cause of the wink  

http://www.raceline-ws.com/rlwa_18_adapter

I would like to clarify couple things tho !! Like Jwalker said, yes it's pretty easy to achieve this conversion..if it not my kit or his you can get all parts from the Dealership then tackle it yourself. But to get difference between a kit at 65 and 125 it must be a reason no ? 

There are the feature:

1-Fully plug and play NO splicing required 
2-MIL-SPEC MS22759/16 wire 
3-Fully cover with RACELINE 150™ Shrink (a flexible, flame-retardant elastomer)
4-Male and female adapter 
5-lenght to be bolt on on VW and AUDI car 
6-GOLD plate terminal ( as you must know tin plate and gold plate are NOT compatible metal ) so if you mix gold and tin you might have corrosion problem on the signal terminal... this may take several month tho  
7-LIFETIME exchange warranty on the kit (plus shipping fees) 
8-Radial resistance for VVT delete (more durable then the regular ceramic resistance) 
9-All wire are sealed to prevent corrosion.

This is why the kit is sold for 125$CAD. At Raceline our fisrt business is racing car harness and always put reliability and quality first, so selling cheaper kit is not a option for us. I sold MANY of this kit and always had good feedback on the simplicity of the installation. We also provide wideband ECU and if you needed we can provide you the best UNITRONIC software for you!!! 

I think that Jwalker kit is great for the price but please do not compare just the price!!!


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Raceline-WS said:


> The link wasn't working cause of the wink
> 
> http://www.raceline-ws.com/rlwa_18_adapter
> 
> ...


First is the price in which you miss quoted. Mine is *$45 American SHIPPED* yours is *$125 Canadian plus shipping*

Second, how do you achieve no splicing (as you claim)? How do you add the extra wires for the wide band 02? (see pic below, appears there are a couple wire that need to be spliced) Also how do you do VVT delete with no splicing? The statement you made about it being *fully plug and play and NO splicing* boggles me.










Third, all the wires, connectors, pins, ect I sell are OEM VW/Audi parts purchased from a dealership so I am pretty sure there would be no compatibility issues there since everything is the same as factory (I have had mine done for over a year in harsh Wisconsin winters with NO corrosion issues).

And fourth, as per my DIY instructions, all wires should always be shrink tube wrapped when spliced. Shrink tubing can be found at most hardware stores or Harbor Freight Tool for less than $5. 

I understand you are a company who deals with these sort of products and have overhead costs (which is the real reason your price is so much higher) but please don't come in here and think anyone is dumb enough to think the reason your price is higher (by three times my price) is because my part is inferior to yours. 

Good first post by the way...and to answer your instant message you sent me...no thanks, I will continue buying my parts to make these harnesses from my current source.


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## Raceline-WS (Oct 18, 2010)

*Wideband*



jwalker1.8 said:


> Second, how do you achieve no splicing (as you claim)? How do you add the extra wires for the wide band 02? (see pic below, appears there are a couple wire that need to be spliced) Also how do you do VVT delete with no splicing? The statement you made about it being *fully plug and play and NO splicing* boggles me.



Wow !!! I didn't want to start a war over here.. I never said that your product is not good, did I ? just saying that comparing price only it's wrong. Compare orange with orange... When you buy a Jetta at 15k you don't get a Audi S4 at 50k options right!.

And no splicing is made easy the adapter is narrowband female and wideband male so where you expect the customer to cut ? Go back on the website and downlaod the installation manual (should be upload in a hour) if you need this is the link 

http://www.raceline-ws.com/rlwa_18_adapter

Anyway have a great holiday !!!


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## Raceline-WS (Oct 18, 2010)

erevlydeux said:


> I'm kinda curious too on why that harness is $125. Those OEM plugs/terminals/seals aren't more than $20 MAX, and that's not even considering volume discounts. That sort of heatshrink, unless it's meant for a space ship, definitely isn't any more than say... $5 maybe? That's really pushing it. The wire? Couldn't be more than $10 worth given the length, and that's assuming it's some ridiculous spec **** (which apparently it is.) The corrugated tubing, and the little custom plastic Y thing... $10 maybe? That's like $50, and even then, it is almost certainly way more than what they actually pay for the materials.
> 
> Like jwalker said, rather exorbitant.
> 
> Also, what was the line about gold plated terminals? All the OEM terminals are tin plated that I've ever seen. Why *would* you use gold instead of tin?


Thanks for feed back but some poeple still pay 95$/hour to get Audi service their car why not paying only 50$ at the corner garage ? 

Take 2 second and look at a O2 connector and you will see pin 1-3-5-6 are gold plate and 3-4 are not.. Take 2 minutes and google " galvanic corrosion " and see if gold and tin goes together  

And BTW get a UNITRONIC file in the same time and get 75$ OFF!!! so the kit would cost you only 50$


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## Raceline-WS (Oct 18, 2010)

erevlydeux said:


> If people want to pay exorbitant prices, that's fine. Arguing that your harness is worth $125 is totally different though.
> 
> I've done the research: those connectors/contacts/seals are not more than $20. That MIL-SPEC wire... it's no more than $0.25/ft. You have less than 10 feet in the harness. Let's be generous and say it costs $2.50 to wire that harness. Diesel resistant polyolefin, or even PTFE, runs on average $5/ft. Again, we'll be generous and assume you used two feet - $10.
> 
> The harness, in raw materials, excluding volume discounts, costs less than $40. You're pulling a 200% profit on it. Is it quality? Sure. It's still highway robbery, though.


Thanks for your advise, I will consider but note that the picture is for reference only those harness are 6 foot long, to go and connect under the car without cutting anywhere. 

I never want to steal anybody but try to help poeple that don't want mess around building it themself. So figured out a solution and sell product that it's easy to plug and understand... 

Jwalker probably sold many of is kit , and i'm happy for him he gave a really good post that help a lot of the VW community. But saying that my stuff don't worth the price without ever seen it, well this is awkward.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Either way I have one kit left and after that I will discontinue making and selling these (unless 5+ orders come in). 

Definition of Plug and Play = plug in and done, no extra installation.

Is your harness plug and play as advertised?


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

I have one of these kits for sale that i bought from jwalker but ended up not using it if anyone is interested.

:biggrinsanta:


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## Raceline-WS (Oct 18, 2010)

jwalker1.8 said:


> Either way I have one kit left and after that I will discontinue making and selling these (unless 5+ orders come in).
> 
> Definition of Plug and Play = plug in and done, no extra installation.
> 
> Is your harness plug and play as advertised?


Yes they are plug and play yes you need to cut the tie wrap that hold the connector together and insert 3 wire in but NO splicing required at all no welding either. just go online and download the installation manual and you will see ...once again: 

http://www.raceline-ws.com/rlwa_18_adapter 

Jwalker .. you know your kind of harness.. people that want to put their hands in it need this kind of kit.. you shouldn't be hard head and continue to sell those who people want to.. for sure Christmas period it's not good for this kind of stuff but I think you have a reputation here and need to continue doing thread like this one :grinsanta:

Happy holiday everyone 

Raceline-ws.com Team !!!


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

I don't see anywhere to download anything...where are the instructions?


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## Raceline-WS (Oct 18, 2010)

*Installation instructions*

There is the manual you are looking for: 

http://www.raceline-ws.com/sites/de...nd conversion installation manual V10.1.5.pdf


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Where does the wire from step 14 connect too? the 16awg black wire that goes into seal 115?


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## Raceline-WS (Oct 18, 2010)

jwalker1.8 said:


> Where does the wire from step 14 connect too? the 16awg black wire that goes into seal 115?


Humm well Yeah !! read step 12 first


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Raceline-WS said:


> Humm well Yeah !! read step 12 first


I mean the other end of the wire...where does that plug into? That is for vvt so where is the other end of the wire running to in the PnP harness? A resistor? A 12 volt power source?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

anyways....

Did my conversion today and came across a slight issue... or so i hope. I have an awp ecu and a atc TT. My problem is in the pic below, you can see in the 2 red circles that this plastic tab is different. I have already trimmed the awp down but its still not fitting correctly. I do have a awp engine harness and the atc ecu doesnt fit into it either. Suggestions?


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

the only simple fix that i could think of would be to simply break off the tab with whatever method you'd be most confident wouldn't cause any un-needed damage.

Really sharp chisel, drillbit, all come to mind.

Else, you could De-solder the connector from the PCB on the ECU and "swap" the connectors to maintain the correct reference pin. 


Though, Are the pin outs the same for the different ECUs?


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## Raceline-WS (Oct 18, 2010)

cincyTT said:


> anyways....
> 
> Did my conversion today and came across a slight issue... or so i hope. I have an awp ecu and a atc TT. My problem is in the pic below, you can see in the 2 red circles that this plastic tab is different. I have already trimmed the awp down but its still not fitting correctly. I do have a awp engine harness and the atc ecu doesnt fit into it either. Suggestions?


Yeah easy .. take the whole plastic off!!. The AWP ECU, you just trim a bit of the plastic tab but this will not work, you need it OFF !!! but be careful to not brake any pin into the ECU connector. Use long nose will help.

If you have any other questions send me PM

J-F


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## Raceline-WS (Oct 18, 2010)

AmIdYfReAk said:


> the only simple fix that i could think of would be to simply break off the tab with whatever method you'd be most confident wouldn't cause any un-needed damage.
> 
> Really sharp chisel, drillbit, all come to mind.
> 
> ...


Haha you answer when I was writing it... Yes the pin-out are the same but donèt forget to cut the wire on pin #61 if not you will have radiator fan issues


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

I was going to do that, but i just trimmed everything down with a blade. Its a tight fit but it works. Didnt want to attempt to break it and it then be down to low where i cant get to it if it still doesnt fit. Just added a good 30-45mins to the project... :banghead:


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Raceline-WS said:


> Haha you answer when I was writing it... Yes the pin-out are the same but donèt forget to cut the wire on pin #61 if not you will have radiator fan issues


Dont CUT, please!

Just disassemble the Ecu connector and pull the wire out. 

it takes ~8 mins to remove it all, Take the wire out, and put it all back together. 

that way, you could "undo" your changes.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

There is not wire. Its a plastic divider.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

cincyTT said:


> There is not wire. Its a plastic divider.


He is talking about the wire #61 for the radiator...not the connection tab you were having problems with. 

Anyway, Raceline can you answer my question about vvt please? I am still interested in how it works in a plug and play fashion...do you have a resistor in the harness and it plugs into something for the 12v power needed?


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## Raceline-WS (Oct 18, 2010)

jwalker1.8 said:


> He is talking about the wire #61 for the radiator...not the connection tab you were having problems with.
> 
> Anyway, Raceland can you answer my question about vvt please? I am still interested in how it works in a plug and play fashion...do you have a resistor in the harness and it plugs into something for the 12v power needed?



Jwalker.. please Raceline not Raceland  The answer is yes I have a adapter that included resistance for VVT with a 12V power source. Also plug&play and come with the kit. 

JeF


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Raceline-WS said:


> Jwalker.. please Raceline not Raceland  The answer is yes I have a adapter that included resistance for VVT with a 12V power source. Also plug&play and come with the kit.
> 
> JeF


Honest mistake, I will edit. Sounds like a good product for those people who need it.


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## Raceline-WS (Oct 18, 2010)

jwalker1.8 said:


> Honest mistake, I will edit. Sounds like a good product for those people who need it.


Thanks Jwalker for your honnesty.. but please don't back up and continue to accept order for yours cause poeple need those kind as well.. 

Happy new year EVERYBODY !! 

:grinsanta:

JeF


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

cincyTT said:


> anyways....
> 
> Did my conversion today and came across a slight issue... or so i hope. I have an awp ecu and a atc TT. My problem is in the pic below, you can see in the 2 red circles that this plastic tab is different. I have already trimmed the awp down but its still not fitting correctly. I do have a awp engine harness and the atc ecu doesnt fit into it either. Suggestions?


funny, i made that exact same post a while back. in another thread post #11

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...rsion-done-easy&highlight=narrowband+wideband


i ended up altering the plug on the harness to fit, i noticed there was simply 2 small tab blocking my ecu's ability to connect properly. i was able to use a razor blade to pop the 2 tabs out and everything connects fine and easy now. i haven't gotten my car running yet due to my lack of the needed resistor to get rid of the VVT. i hope once i get the proper resistor into my car it will fire up and be a happy lill beast. def post up any info u have as to things u do different from an normal wideband ecu swap for your ATC based car. ohter than the ecu plug issue i haven't done anything different yet.

on a side note, i did try installing the whole AWP harness into my ATC car and found some serious issues. 1 of the plugs at the pass thru into the cabin is totally different, just about every sensor on the motor side of things is a different style plug than the ATC sensors and such plus well its a vw harness so the ecu is in a different location. this lead me to uninstalling the AWP harness and going back to the ATC harness w/ the added wires needed for the wideband ecu to work properly.


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## Raceline-WS (Oct 18, 2010)

carsluTT said:


> funny, i made that exact same post a while back. in another thread post #11
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...rsion-done-easy&highlight=narrowband+wideband
> 
> ...


You are not the first one to ask for that Audi has 1 other different clip too..so each time I sent ECU for any project.. chip,Wideband conversion or race car I always take the tab off before sending it  That way people don`t call me back


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

Raceline-WS said:


> You are not the first one to ask for that Audi has 1 other different clip too..so each time I sent ECU for any project.. chip,Wideband conversion or race car I always take the tab off before sending it  That way people don`t call me back


ahah ....... nice to know there are others out there w/ a bastardized setup. are there any other mods that are not typical of a wideband ecu swap that's needed for early TT's?..... 

thanks


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## joehirth (May 18, 2011)

FastAndFurious said:


> confused about the avap selenoid wiring
> 
> 
> is the evap selenoid in obove picture #1? or is it the N80 valve?


Bump for this - what's the idea of wiring the other end of the resistor to the EVAP wiring? Is it just to get a constant 12v?

Also all the Bosch lambda probes seem to have 5 wires, although the harness has 6? Is this right? 

"Existing harness New harness
Pin#1 goes to Pin#3
Pin#2 goes to Pin#4
Pin#3 goes to Pin#5
Pin#4 goes to Pin#1

Now you will have two wires left for your new o2 harness. You will then need to run the two new wires from the ecu harness. I used 22gauge strand wire and 60/40 solder."

Any help appreciated thanks

Joe


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

joehirth said:


> Bump for this - what's the idea of wiring the other end of the resistor to the EVAP wiring? Is it just to get a constant 12v?
> 
> Also all the Bosch lambda probes seem to have 5 wires, although the harness has 6? Is this right?
> 
> ...


All the info for running the 2 new wires is in the DIY. You need to run 2 new 22 gauge wires up to the ecu and insert them into the correct pin locations. It's not that hard to do just take your time. I would set aside 5-6 hours to do this swap correctly from start to finish. That includes soldering, covering, and tucking all the wires to protect them from the elements just like the factory harness.


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## joehirth (May 18, 2011)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> All the info for running the 2 new wires is in the DIY. You need to run 2 new 22 gauge wires up to the ecu and insert them into the correct pin locations. It's not that hard to do just take your time. I would set aside 5-6 hours to do this swap correctly from start to finish. That includes soldering, covering, and tucking all the wires to protect them from the elements just like the factory harness.


Sure I get all that, I've previously wired cruise control into ECU's and tapped off for TPS and Revs too. 

Just wanted to highlight the fact that the lambda sensor probe only seems to have 5 wires, but yet the harness, which the probe plugs into (in the guide) has 6 wires. 

Wanted to make sure this all makes sense.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

joehirth said:


> Sure I get all that, I've previously wired cruise control into ECU's and tapped off for TPS and Revs too.
> 
> Just wanted to highlight the fact that the lambda sensor probe only seems to have 5 wires, but yet the harness, which the probe plugs into (in the guide) has 6 wires.
> 
> Wanted to make sure this all makes sense.


Is the 6th spot just blank? I don't recall exactly because it has been many months since I did the swap. I just used the kit from jwalker and it worked flawlessly.


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## joehirth (May 18, 2011)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Is the 6th spot just blank? I don't recall exactly because it has been many months since I did the swap. I just used the kit from jwalker and it worked flawlessly.


I am yet to receive all the bits to my kit (I'm buying everything myself from various places), I will do as per the guide and report back. I am only noting what I question from the guide itself. Just wanted to know if anyone could clarify before I take the step to doing it on my own car.

I assume that jwalker's kit consists of things which he lists in the itial guide post...?


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## joehirth (May 18, 2011)

Sorry, me again, another question is all the wiring including that which is plugged into part number 1J0973733 all 22 awg? I need to confirm with my parts man what gauge the wire is so he can send me the correct pins/ wires.

Thanks


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## joehirth (May 18, 2011)

*Problems with conversion, can someone help?*

I did this conversion to my AYP SEAT Ibiza yesterday, however I have the following problems after install: 

6 Faults Found: 

18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low 

P1602 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent 

17069 - ECM Power Relay Control Circuit (J271): Open Circuit 

P0685 - 35-00 - - 

18058 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from Instrument Cluster 

P1650 - 35-00 - - 

17931 - Crash Signal from Airbag Controller: Implausible Signal 

P1523 - 35-00 - - 

16486 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70): Signal too Low 

P0102 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent 

17523 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating: B1 S1: Short to Ground 

P1115 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent 

Had the usual fan running constantly but removing Pin#61 solved this. 

With the lambda heating problem I believe it was a blown fuse as I replaced it and no fault has returned *yet*. 

My main concern is that the throttle pedal doesn't work, the car starts and runs pretty lumpy on idle with odd missfires too. The ECU I've used is AUM from 2002 VW Bora 1.8T and my car's original ECU was AYP 2001 SEAT Ibiza Cupra R 1.8T. 

Car is currently stuck on my driveway and I appreciate any help possible. 


After some further research I think I may of found the problem with my throttle, if anyone is any god at reading wiring diagrams then please churp up and say this is what I've found; 

AYP wiring: 










and key 










AUM wiring: 










Key: 










From what I've worked out only Pin#2 on both diagrams (G79) lead to ECU (J220) Pin# T121/73 

Anyone able to tell me which way I should rewire the connector?


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Sorry couldn't help sooner I was out of town. 

Looks like all you need to do is flip flop a few wires (I personally would do this at the harness). 

Here is what I would do...it looks to me that 4 of the 6 wires need to be switched. I would pull those 4 and label them with masking tape so you know where they came from. Then put them where they need to go. 

Here are the 4 that should be switched 

pin #73 should go to 36 

pin #36 should go to 73 

Pin #34 should go to 72 

Pin #72 should go to 34 

The first number in each line is where the pin came from, the second number is where it should go. 

As a disclaimer I am not responsible for anything bad that may come from this. Please check all your work yourself before doing it. Do not take anything I write as 100% fact, these are my thoughts on how it "should" go. safety first, test drive in an unpopulated area. Messing with throttle position sensor "could" be dangerous and I personally would test the car before driving it to see how the throttle response is by visually looking at how the throttle body reacts to the throttle pedal. Good luck. 

EDIT: 

Since you have both diagrams I would go through and see if there are any other variances in things before doing any more modifications.


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## joehirth (May 18, 2011)

jwalker1.8 said:


> Sorry couldn't help sooner I was out of town.
> 
> Looks like all you need to do is flip flop a few wires (I personally would do this at the harness).
> 
> ...


 I will try that tonight, thanks  

As for other differences there are a few, like for example relay J271 I don't have it at all, VAGCOM comes up with an error saying that it's not there although the power supplies to the ECU are there in the correct pins, they just don't go via te relay. 

I will report back later.


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## joehirth (May 18, 2011)

Jwalker - bad news I'm afraid - after rewiring as per your suggestion the car started but still, no throttle. 

Did a test on VAGCOM to see what it was reading from the throttle - on idle (no pressing the throttle pedal) it read ~80% when I pushed thr throttle all the way to the floor it showed ~20% in VAGCOM. 

Tried a throttle body reset, came up with ERROR in the last box. 

At this point I thought I would rewire it so that the pins for the connector at the throttle position sensor matched those at the ECU - this didn't work either and VAGCOM showed 0% in the final 2 boxes when testing block 062. 

Any ideas/ further tests I can do?


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

Yikes man, I can't think of much. I thought for sure that would work. How about differences in the two throttle bodies. Is it possible to reinstall your old ecu just to see if this eliminates the problem?


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## joehirth (May 18, 2011)

More food for thought here then, I think the actual throttle bodies are different between the AYP and the AUM. The wiring looks to be correct for the TPS so I'm going to revert everything back to original there.

Here's some more diagrams, do you think that the throttle bodies are different?

AYP Throttle body










and key










AUM throttle body










and key











On a side note - could you check the wideband O2 sensor in comparison to your guide - I want to make sure my AYP narrowband is the same as your AMU narrowband (assuming that's the ECU you started with) so that I can tell if we started from the same place.

AYP narrowband set up










For reference AUM wideband pin out










(Please say that's at least right  )


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## joehirth (May 18, 2011)

Here's my findings from tonight (still doesn't work).

This is with throttle body wiring as OEM (AYP) and throttle sensor wiring with pins #73 > #36 and #36 to #73.

Foot off throttle:










Foot flat to floor:










As you can see when I put foot to floor the value *decreases*

Swapped Pin#36 and #73 back to OEM positions so *all* the wiring is as the car came out the factory with, these are the results;

Foot off throttle:










Foot flat to floor:










From what I can work out VAGCOM/ ECU is looking for "G187 and G188" These are parts inside the throttle body itself. After looking at various other models the Ibiza/ Cordoba seem to be the only throttle bodies to have different internal components, it has "G69 and G88" instead of "G187 and G188". Although the throttle bodies all seem to be interchangeable has anyone ever actually taken an AYP throttle body and successfully matched it with a AUM or other wideband ECU car?

Tomorrow I'm going to try a BAM throttle body which is EXACTLY the same as a AUM throttle body - so no arguements that the ECU isn't expecting anything.

G79 and G185 seem to be the same and working on both AYP and AUM engines.


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## fuzkd (Jul 12, 2010)

*APX*

I have an old '99 TT225 (APX engine code)
Du you know if the conversion will work on mine?


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

Bump. Any link to the thread with pics???


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

bump for pics


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## eagc (Feb 24, 2008)

hey guys

I have been reseaching
and I have a question

could it work if I install all the wideband harness, and install the vvti into the awd engine ???

I have 2 wideband ecus. one from aww engine and another awp

please if someone could help me. I have a jetta awd with k04-23 turbo upgrade


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

could it work if I install all the wideband harness, and install the vvti into the awd engine ???


yes.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

i think he wants to run the OEM tune....

If keeping the car OEM, I wouldn't bother with the swap...


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## eagc (Feb 24, 2008)

jwalker1.8 said:


> could it work if I install all the wideband harness, and install the vvti into the awd engine ???
> 
> 
> yes.


thanks men, I have a k04-23, but I can't get all the hps that I want with the narrowband :thumbup:


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

speed51133! said:


> i think he wants to run the OEM tune....
> 
> If keeping the car OEM, I wouldn't bother with the swap...


Agreed


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*Wideband conversion - harness - wiring diagram*

Does any have or can link to a sketch or diagram showing the wiring of the harness converter?

from 4 pin car side O2 connector to 5/6 pin wideband O2 sensor plugs (and pin 52/71 ECU wires)?

Trying to troubleshoot conversion (using purchased adapter) that throws code:

16514 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1 
P0130 - 35-00 - Malfunction in Circuit

Plus need to rewire car side o2 connector (totally disintegrated).


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