# syncro Viscous Coupling delete



## TREKSportMK3 (Feb 1, 2009)

it seems that the vc is the weak link of the syncro awd system, since this will be swapped andd a custom shaft will be needed, could you just have one made that didnt include the vc? just one long straight bar? with that and an ATB for the front or even rear, would this overcome the problems in the 300hp said limit before breakage?


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## TREKSportMK3 (Feb 1, 2009)

bump


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## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

well, without the VC, the components will fail  i would only recomend this if you are on an ice-track and willing to destroy the angle-drive and rear diff 

vw motorsport did not use a VC on their rallye cars. they made a "vc" shaft


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## TREKSportMK3 (Feb 1, 2009)

im guessing theyre pretty imposible to get? would it be a possibility to switch to a center diff? it would treat it more like an always active awd, but would the components work with it?


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

You can't fit a center diff, the only options available to you are a viscous coupling, or controllable clutch pack (haldex). The VW system provides permanent un switchable drive toward the rear end, and uses the VC or Haldex to regulate drive to the rear axle.

If you solid drive the rear end, then on turns, you'll find that unless you're driving on a loose surface or ice, either the rear diff, or the front transfer box will do it's best to explode. A spool might work, but I don't really see the advantage for regular use, only for drag racing.


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## TREKSportMK3 (Feb 1, 2009)

hmmm so it seems that 300hp is the limit for most cases unless you do the haldex/syncro kit, but thats just even more money, i guess just a peloquin ATB will have to do


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## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

300hp is not the limit 

its the low-end torque that kills it, the "hp" as we use it has no meaning


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## TREKSportMK3 (Feb 1, 2009)

how much torque can it handle before it becomes unstable then?


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## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

TREKSportMK3 said:


> how much torque can it handle before it becomes unstable then?


 how long is a rope? 

kinda hard to say. as it has much to do with wear, and usage


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## Northland (Nov 9, 2008)

weejunGL said:


> well, without the VC, the components will fail  i would only recomend this if you are on an ice-track and willing to destroy the angle-drive and rear diff
> 
> vw motorsport did not use a VC on their rallye cars. they made a "vc" shaft


WHERE do i get som info on the "VC" shaft?
Yes i know they used it on the real rallye when racing.
But there is almoust no info about this and no pictures.
I really need to get some more info in the matter.



TREKSportMK3 said:


> im guessing theyre pretty imposible to get? would it be a possibility to switch to a center diff? it would treat it more like an always active awd, but would the components work with it?


Did you get any answers about this part?


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## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

these pics arnt taken by me, nor are they owned by me, but they are publicly available. so i snagged them 

just for the hell of it.

i believe i've seen a pic of the "non vc" shaft loose, but can't find it. but i found this.

the VWMS rallye rear diff



that would give you a rough idea on how it is..


and just to spark some interest.

the VWMS rallye CARBON propshaft





and the VWMS rallye gearbox. 02C based. but check that lump of an angledrive. fekkin huge






there you go


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## CannuckCorradoVR6T (Nov 8, 2001)

I don't know if people realize what that "angle drive" pictured above is. THAT is a real AWD system on a transverse Volkswagen, with 3 differentials.

I must know more about this. PLEASE!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

yes, but its made for the rallye, for rallying 

don't think that this box would be so fun on a day-to-day basis. straight cut gears. LSDs.

has a 50/50 distriution all the time. 

6 speed gemini gearbox


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## CannuckCorradoVR6T (Nov 8, 2001)

Yes, straight cut gears are a bad idea for a street car, but I don't care about the transmission. All that madness after the ring gear is what I'm excited about. Just by appearance, I assume there is an oddball center differential fitted inside the 02c case, with the front differential hanging off the RH side. Does Gemini make the angle drive unit specifically? 

This appears to be the same as a Mitsubishi style angle drive, with the front diff outside the gearbox. The other possibility, is this is more like a celica all-trac, with a combined front&center differential in the transmission, and a VC unit off to the right to distribute the power when one axle has slip. 

Do you know what the internal arrangement is?


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## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

i think the gemini part of the box is the 6speed part.

i've seen some other "gemini" boxes, they are fwd 6 speed. 

not too much info on the web about this. and vw didit care about the reasearch vwms did at that time, so they claim that the research info and all the rest is gone (they claim so, but i don't believe them)

but to my knowledge, there isn't any VC in this setup at all. its all rigid crap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrX1KIvD_r0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5_2tBxKD-0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFtKnmk4K-s


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## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

Northland said:


> WHERE do i get som info on the "VC" shaft?
> Yes i know they used it on the real rallye when racing.
> But there is almoust no info about this and no pictures.
> I really need to get some more info in the matter.
> ...


to ease your quest in finding this VC delete (don't bother, no one makes them, you have to have one made for you)

its not that hard actually.. if you have a VC unit to sacrifice. weld that sucker up  then it will be solid and suit yor needs


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## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

more pics of misc rallye stuff

centre-diff/angledrive housing



vwms diff internals


vwms pinion, fakkin huge!




and then some bad pics of the rear diff


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## Northland (Nov 9, 2008)

Rear axle will fail everyone says.
But almoust everyone that did rallying with the actual Golf Rallye in the old days says it will work just fine deleteing the visco.

They ran the cars without the VC in gravel and snow setup.
Only in pure asfalt setup they ran with some VC.

The cars have a normal OPEN rear diff and will transfer the drive away from binding.
Even with the Pelequin or Quaife the rear is ok.

BUT when there is sudden grip and both wheels grip , then the angledrive is in danger.
That because the racecars hade a bigger/tuffer piniong/gearing in the angeldrive.

So yes , they can break!
But if it held together for the rally rallyes it will hold for the opendiffed roaduser.
I for one is going to do this anyways for the iceracing trackdays.

I have asked many different people that where rallying in the past.
They all says that the VC or rearaxle is not the problem.
That is the angledrive , IF there IS GRIP for all wheels.
That probleme is NOT on ice anyways.

Here where i live there is winter for 7-8 months.
Icey for at least 5 of them.
So grip there is not.


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## Northland (Nov 9, 2008)

weejunGL said:


> to ease your quest in finding this VC delete (don't bother, no one makes them, you have to have one made for you)
> 
> its not that hard actually.. if you have a VC unit to sacrifice. weld that sucker up  then it will be solid and suit yor needs


Haha thanks!
Yes i have three VC:s for the moment , soon four.
I think i will have one made for the purpouse.
Then i can alternate if needed.

And if sacrifice is needed then the smaler VC is the target.
That one is not needed later soo that one i can weld.
But its better to have a part made.

As i wrote its not that part that worries me , its the angeldrive :banghead:

We will see how that pans out :screwy:


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

weejunGL said:


> and the VWMS rallye gearbox. 02C based. but check that lump of an angledrive. fekkin huge


Saw one of these years ago but they are pretty much unobtainable. Most people will tell you that you are better off going 02M if you want to get any power out of a Transverse 4WD set up.


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