# C2 or APR tune?



## Dronks (Jun 7, 2011)

There isn't much difference comparing these two tunes on paper so I'd like to hear opinions from those who have had both or have driven cars with either tune. Looking at 91 octane tunes BTW. 

APR is more convenient as they have dealer about 10 minutes away compared to C2 where I'd have to drive about 6 hours round trip or mail the ECU. 

I don't plan to have more than a short shifter, tune and an intake. Ever. I'm looking for bad experiences like worse mileage, inaccurate claims and poor tuning like black smoke or just running like crap. 

*My thoughts after the tune:* I got the ECU back around 10:30 Friday morning, installed it and have been really happy since! The tune provides a considerable power gain in the lower RPM range and a bit more throughout. Throttle response is way better and the rev hang is gone. I've gone 90 or so miles so far and will update when I fill up. Overall a Great tune from a great company! Thanks Danny and the rest of the C2 guys!


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## Zaytri (Mar 3, 2009)

Dronks said:


> There isn't much difference comparing these two tunes on paper so I'd like to hear opinions from those who have had both or have driven cars with either tune. Looking at 91 octane tunes BTW.
> 
> APR is more convenient as they have dealer about 10 minutes away.


 I currently have APR, and they have confirmed to me that that have no intention of updating their 2.5L software. They also don't support more recent mods (test pips, SRIs, Etc..) 

C2 and UM are the two most popular with the most support currently. I'd say go with either of them.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

C2 over APR all day.


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## Dronks (Jun 7, 2011)

Zaytri said:


> I currently have APR, and they have confirmed to me that that have no intention of updating their 2.5L software. They also don't support more recent mods (test pips, SRIs, Etc..)
> 
> C2 and UM are the two most popular with the most support currently. I'd say go with either of them.


 Do you have any problems with your APR tune? Is the rev hang gone or is there less? Is your mileage any different? Does it run well? 



itskohler said:


> C2 over APR all day.


 Invaluable information


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## Zaytri (Mar 3, 2009)

Dronks said:


> Do you have any problems with your APR tune? Is the rev hang gone or is there less? Is your mileage any different? Does it run well?


 When i got it 4 years ago, it was great.. i was psyched at all the features... that i never use. Mileage got a little better, runs fine, throttle response much improved. 

I got the full package.. Ive never switched off 93, used valet mode and anti-theft mode MAYBE 5 times. 

In 2012, If i was in your shoes, I'd go with C2 or UM hands down. Their tunes are newer, more relevant, and they simply support this engine NOW.


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

Here at C2Motorsports, we've put a TON of time into research and development on the 2.5L platform since it came out and we are CONTINUING to put more time and development into it (in fact, i hear a 2010 2.5L on the dyno as I'm typing this :laugh: ). 

If you want some more information on ANY of our tunes or the company in general and what we are doing with the 2.5L platform, shoot me a call at 502-895-3660 and we can talk! There is probably going to be a lot of info you are going to want to know, I'm sure, and my poor fingers get tired from having to respond to countless threads everyday   

Or, if you would like, PM me or email me with your specific questions and I'll have a response right back to you :thumbup:


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Dronks said:


> Invaluable information


 I do what I can. :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

just gonna throw this is... 

why not United Motorsports? they too have an amazing software portfilio, AND they too have been in love with the 2.5 since day 1. 

they were the to make a production intake manifold and accompanying software. 

the first to offer turbo sw for 09s... 

the first to make a 2.5 BIG turbo AWD (819 All Wheel HP and counting) etc. 

so.. why not give em a chance?


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

:facepalm:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

itskohler said:


> :facepalm:


 lol, bro i'm just asking op: why not consider ALL options. 

i forgot to mention: why not unitronic either? 

its always important to know WHY


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## sleeper247 (Oct 2, 2009)

Okay I just want to say that I have the apr tune on my 07 rabbit. I have had no problems with it. When it comes to buying software for my car, I chose apr because it was close to where I live and I like having the option to switch between stock, 91 or 93. I live in GA and remember there was a time when finding gas was a problem. I know it probably won't happen again but I like to have an option. 
As far as which software is better, in my opinion they are all pretty much the same. They all will improve the performance of the car there might be some difference as a gain of 1 or 2 hp but you won't be able to tell. 
Now before you decide which software to get, think about what you want to do with your car. If you are going to add sri or a header then you would want to go with a company that has continued support for the 2.5. APR's software is great but they focus on the TSI or FSI. Keep in mind they use the stage III in the cars that they use to race with so they are going to focus on that and not 2.5. I think they just have a software for the 2.5 to get a piece of the market. So I hop this helps in your choice of software.


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> its always important to know WHY


 I respectfully disagree  

Here's why: a car owner does not need to explain why he mods his car a certain way... It's HIS car and if he chooses to go a certain direction with it, who are we to judge him for it? That is what is wrong with Vortex: people would rather criticize and tell people how to mod their car than appreciate or give advice. 

No matter what suspension, wheels, tires, turbo, software, tail lights, antennae, or floor mats a person chooses, they did it for a reason and that reason should only matter to them because we do not know all the particulars and we have no right to know why they did it. 

:thumbup::beer:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I respectfully disagree
> 
> Here's why: a car owner does not need to explain why he mods his car a certain way... It's HIS car and if he chooses to go a certain direction with it, who are we to judge him for it? That is what is wrong with Vortex: people would rather criticize and tell people how to mod their car than appreciate or give advice.
> 
> ...


 AMEN  :laugh:


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Word. Here in the 2.5 tech forums we aren't THAT bad. The MKV forum is scary though.


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## Dronks (Jun 7, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I respectfully disagree
> 
> Here's why: a car owner does not need to explain why he mods his car a certain way... It's HIS car and if he chooses to go a certain direction with it, who are we to judge him for it? That is what is wrong with Vortex: people would rather criticize and tell people how to mod their car than appreciate or give advice.
> 
> ...


 Damn I wish you guys had a dealer local to me. This is the kind of people I want to work with! 

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm going to see how the APR tune is, if I don't like it I'll take them up on their 30 day guarantee and find a way to live without my car for a few days while the ECU ships to C2. If you guys had someone closer than the WI - IL border I'd be tuned already.


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

Dronks said:


> Damn I wish you guys had a dealer local to me. This is the kind of people I want to work with!
> 
> Thanks for the input everyone. I'm going to see how the APR tune is, if I don't like it I'll take them up on their 30 day guarantee and find a way to live without my car for a few days while the ECU ships to C2. If you guys had someone closer than the WI - IL border I'd be tuned already.


 
Secret tip: USPS Overnight. 

Many people who daily their cars will USPS overnight their ECU for $18-$20, send a return label for us, we will flash it the day we get it for you, slap the return label you provide on the package and throw it right back at you to get the next day. Only 24-36 hours without a car instead of days like people think. 

BOOM. 

:laugh: :thumbup:


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> BOOM.


 Head shot!


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

I had APR's software on my '08 2.5l back when it was a more pedestrian form of transportation. 
There's nothing bad to say about it really, but if I was to do it all over again I would go C2. 
Better value cost wise and more 2.5l support from them. 
APR does _forced induction_ tuning well, but lacks enthusiasm when it comes to the 2.5l ECU treatment.


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## Dronks (Jun 7, 2011)

This dealer is so frustrating  

Pulling the ECU and calling C2 in a few minutes.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I respectfully disagree


 and you are right... lol. 

i forgot to add one detail: its important to ME to know why. 

but i fully understand if the owner/ any owner does want to share the reasons behind his/her choice.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

Dronks said:


> Pulling the ECU and calling C2 in a few minutes.


 win! 
you will be happy.


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

Dronks said:


> This dealer is so frustrating
> 
> Pulling the ECU and calling C2 in a few minutes.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Dronks (Jun 7, 2011)

On the way to usps, is the reynolds unit 4 address the mailing address to send the ecu to? 15 minutes to ship!

Sent from my MOTWX435KT using Tapatalk 2


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Call em!


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## Dronks (Jun 7, 2011)

I did, no one answered 

Sent from my MOTWX435KT using Tapatalk 2


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## Dronks (Jun 7, 2011)

Lets see how long this takes . I shipped at 5:50 PM on the 25th.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I respectfully disagree
> 
> Here's why: a car owner does not need to explain why he mods his car a certain way... It's HIS car and if he chooses to go a certain direction with it, who are we to judge him for it? That is what is wrong with Vortex: people would rather criticize and tell people how to mod their car than appreciate or give advice.
> 
> ...


 :beer: :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

Dronks said:


> I did, no one answered


 Got your message this morning! We are here 8-5 EST Mon-Fri and the message was left at 6:19 pm  Funny thing is, I even stayed late last night but left about 5:45  



Dronks said:


> Lets see how long this takes . I shipped at 5:50 PM on the 25th.


 As long as we get it this morning, i can have it back out to you this afternoon! 

Also, if you can, give me a call so I can get some details from you on the tune (that's basically the only hold up besides actually getting the ECU here) :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

Update: 

His ECU got here this morning, it's already flashed and it is about to be overnighted back... 

36 hours. 

:thumbup:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

slackers


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> slackers


 :bs: 

:laugh:


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## KAKASHIxRABBIT (Sep 20, 2010)

I recently got an APR 93 oct tune (stg II with my testpipe) and have no complaints. The throttle response is great, no rev hang, pulls hard, and the car *begs* to be driven spirtedly. 

Its not a night and day difference but the car is more athletic and cuts threw like a razor. .:Racecar lol 

The gas mileage has been horrible, but I think its because I can't take my foot of the accelerater. :laugh: 

If you plan on getting a SRI then go with C2 software. I think they offer a discount if you are simply upgrading from their software to the SRI's. 

Also, as mentioned, it doesn't hurt to support the companies that support us.  

If I didn't have an auto trans I would have saved a bit more and went with C2 or UM software for the C2 SRI. 

Good luck!!


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## Somewhiteguy (Mar 14, 2012)

I have the fully loaded APR program all the bells and whistles and at the time the extra $200 seemed like a great idea for all the extra features. However I never used the other features. My car has been in 93 mode all the time. One thing that pisses me off with APR is that they have no instructions for my control stalk they say it uses features of one stalk and another one because the rabbit is different. So I'm worried if I ever have to reset my program again. 

If anyone has instructions they made out on their own I would be happy. 


Anyways! The APR tune did make a huge difference more power, better response, and no more rev hang BUT. I plan to get the C2 SRI within the next week or so and wont look back at APR.


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## redrbt2.5 (May 11, 2009)

i agree with what everyone has been saying. I have the 93 apr tune and I really like it. I just got a eurojet header with a high flow cat and I think until I can afford the SRI and C2/Uni tune I'm probably just going to get the free upgrade TO APR'S STG2. Myabe if there is some killer deal at sowo I'll change sides **hint hint**:thumbup:


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## sleeper247 (Oct 2, 2009)

where did you get your EJ header?


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## redrbt2.5 (May 11, 2009)

sleeper247 said:


> where did you get your EJ header?


 from a guy on here who was selling it


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## Dronks (Jun 7, 2011)

I got the ECU back around 10:30 Friday morning, installed it and have been really happy since! There is a considerable power gain in the lower RPM range and a bit more throughout. Throttle response is way better and the rev hang is gone. I'vs gone 90 or so miles so far and will update when I fill up. Overall a Greta tune from a great company! Thanks Danny and the rest of the C2 guys!


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## cbs_24 (May 21, 2011)

Dronks said:


> I got the ECU back around 10:30 Friday morning, installed it and have been really happy since! There is a considerable power gain in the lower RPM range and a bit more throughout. Throttle response is way better and the rev hang is gone. I'vs gone 90 or so miles so far and will update when I fill up. Overall a Greta tune from a great company! Thanks Danny and the rest of the C2 guys!


 
how tough was pulling the ecu? is there an edu floating around? what tune did you end up getting?


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## Dronks (Jun 7, 2011)

The rain tray, wiper arms, and a metal shield needs to be removed before you can get good access to the 2 faceless screws that need to have a slot cut in them to be removed. But after that it's simple, just unclip the two plugs and slide the ECU out. 

My wiper arms didn't want to come out and the faceless screws are going to be the most time consuming tasks. Total time was around an hour with lots of pb blaster on the wiper arms. Make sure you cut the slots in the faceless screws deep enough, they have mild (blue) loctite on them.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4017198-DIY-Removing-ECU-(-5.5-08-GTI-GLI-2.0T-FSI-)


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## cbs_24 (May 21, 2011)

Thanks guys :thumbup:


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## cbs_24 (May 21, 2011)

What did you use to cut the faceless screws?


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## Dronks (Jun 7, 2011)

Thanks for linking that DIY thygreyt. 

I used a Dremel with a cutoff blade to cut a slot in each screw head like the DIY suggests. Removing the engine cover really helps to get a straight shot and more pressure on the screws with a screwdriver once you cut the slots. 

The main reasons I got a tune is because I wanted better mileage and the rev hang gone. The extra power is just a nice bonus. I also ordered a P-Flo for easier maintenance.


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

Dronks said:


> I got the ECU back around 10:30 Friday morning, installed it and have been really happy since! There is a considerable power gain in the lower RPM range and a bit more throughout. Throttle response is way better and the rev hang is gone. I'vs gone 90 or so miles so far and will update when I fill up. Overall a Greta tune from a great company! Thanks Danny and the rest of the C2 guys!


 Your satisfaction made it worth it man! Anytime we can help, you let me know! 

:thumbup:


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

/thread 

eace:


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## Zoolook_ (Mar 17, 2012)

When is either going to offer a CAI for the 2011 2.5l?


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Zoolook_ said:


> When is either going to offer a CAI for the 2011 2.5l?


 A cold air intake? APR company makes them, but C2 doesnt.


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