# 2.0L Underdrive Crank Pulley for MK3 ABA engines.



## VW Maverick (Jan 3, 2002)

Got one of these off eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/94-9...Accessories&hash=item35a8fa352c#ht_6254wt_762

I have an ABA bottom end in my 92 Jetta that I already switched to the serpentine system. 
Here is that if you are interested:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-Serpentine-Conversion-Including-A-C-and-P-S.

Of course, with an underdrive pulley, you need new belts. A friend had already done this conversion and he loved it so I got the belt info from him. Both came from Advance Auto. I had a replacement Dayco idler pulley so I switched that out at the same time.

Here are some pics:









































































I would recommend this to anyone with a 2.0L ABA engine.

Mav.


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## autotragik b3attlewagen (Aug 24, 2003)

:thumbup: Nice write up

Stealn' part numbers from me 
Might be good to post them so everyone can refer as needed.


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## VW Maverick (Jan 3, 2002)

autotragik b3attlewagen said:


> :thumbup: Nice write up
> 
> Stealn' part numbers from me
> Might be good to post them so everyone can refer as needed.


There was no stealing, I was given the part numbers willingly. 
The numbers are clear in the first pic. As stated, Advance has those belts in stock. 

Mav.


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## VW Maverick (Jan 3, 2002)

It's noted in the eBay info, but this pulley is also lightened along with underdrive.
I have noticed quicker acceleration. It's not going to throw you back in your seat, but you will notice the difference if you drive your car everyday and know what it does or not does in certain situations.
If in 5th and on the highway, I can lightly push on the accelerator and can feel the pickup alot quicker.
Also, it is very smooth. No excessive vibrations or noise.

Mav.


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## autotragik b3attlewagen (Aug 24, 2003)

VW Maverick said:


> There was no stealing, I was given the part numbers willingly.
> The numbers are clear in the first pic. As stated, Advance has those belts in stock.
> 
> Mav.



Ahh sorry, couldn't see pics @ work. Unlike some people I was at the office that day. :laugh:


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## VW Maverick (Jan 3, 2002)

autotragik b3attlewagen said:


> Ahh sorry, couldn't see pics @ work. Unlike some people I was at the office that day. :laugh:


Yeah, yeah. The filter at work blocks PhotoBucket pics. I don't know why.

Mav.


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## VW Maverick (Jan 3, 2002)

You may be saying, "Hey, the crank pulley is also a vibration damper. Wouldn't the removal of this part cause unwanted vibrations?"
I asked that same question and I am pleased to say, no vibration problems at all.
Very smooth on the highway. Just as good as the OE part but lighter and faster. 
I have found no problems with the cooling, steering or electrical system with the underdrive system.

This is a good, inexpensive mod that you can immediately feel when driving.
I still recommend it.

Mav. 

P.S. No compensation has been made to this poster for his opinion.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Another advantage to that pulley is that if you decide to do a 16v or 20V hybrid, there is plenty of metal to machine the necessary 6mm off the back keep your belt alignment correct with the wider (16V) crankshaft sprocket.


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## VW Maverick (Jan 3, 2002)

Prof315 said:


> Another advantage to that pulley is that if you decide to do a 16v or 20V hybrid, there is plenty of metal to machine the necessary 6mm off the back keep your belt alignment correct with the wider (16V) crankshaft sprocket.


 That is another good point. Good to know.
Thanks.

Mav.


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## VW Maverick (Jan 3, 2002)

Update:

I found the serpentine belt listed above to be a bit on the long side. It tensioned but not as well as I liked.
I went back and get a slightly shorter belt and it works alot better.
It was kinda tight going on but it worked and it does tension better than the other one.

Here is the one I used:










Later.

Mav.


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## ctuagent117 (Oct 4, 2005)

Had that same pulley on my old jetta. Went online and bought the most expensive one I could find that was on Ebay anyway.

Your gonna' learn to hate it if you are observant. It's not balanced well, after about 6 months it started making noise, the car would over heat if i idled for 25 minutes (Atlanta Traffic) I bet yours will too. Also, after about 3 - 4 weeks it would (the bolts) go loose. 

Worse piece of junk ever. Hope you like yours tho


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## Fast VW (Sep 24, 2002)

VW Maverick said:


> You may be saying, "Hey, the crank pulley is also a vibration damper. Wouldn't the removal of this part cause unwanted vibrations?"
> I asked that same question and I am pleased to say, no vibration problems at all.
> Very smooth on the highway. Just as good as the OE part but lighter and faster.


The vibrations occur in the crankshaft and cause excessive/abnormal main bearing wear. This is not something you are going to feel while driving the car.


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## hisownvw (Feb 27, 2010)

Fast VW said:


> The vibrations occur in the crankshaft and cause excessive/abnormal main bearing wear. This is not something you are going to feel while driving the car.


So this is not a good thing buy then???

I was about to buy it too... =/


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## Nicefeet (Dec 29, 2009)

hisownvw said:


> So this is not a good thing buy then???
> 
> I was about to buy it too... =/


The stock pulley is weighted. I don't really think proper R&D was done on these parts.


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## Fast VW (Sep 24, 2002)

Nicefeet said:


> The stock pulley is weighted. I don't really think proper R&D was done on these parts.


There is also a rubber ring that separates the inner portion from the outer edge that the belt rides on. This is what absorbs the vibrations and is called a "tuned rubber damper". Do a google search on "harmonic damper" or "torsional damper" and read. There is lots of info.


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## autotragik b3attlewagen (Aug 24, 2003)

I have had one installed on my car for 10k+ miles.. 0 issues. 
My brother had one on his ABA for YEARS and probably 30k+ miles, and his pistons were never sent thru the block.. 
All this naysaying, and 0 evidence or technical data to support that it a "bad" product. 
Keep in mind that Neuspeed, Gruven, Eurosport, and numerous other companies make pulleys similar or identical to this.. I have read zip about any of them specifically causing a failure. 

opinion does not = fact


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## Nicefeet (Dec 29, 2009)

autotragik b3attlewagen said:


> I have had one installed on my car for 10k+ miles.. 0 issues.
> My brother had one on his ABA for YEARS and probably 30k+ miles, and his pistons were never sent thru the block..
> All this naysaying, and 0 evidence or technical data to support that it a "bad" product.
> Keep in mind that Neuspeed, Gruven, Eurosport, and numerous other companies make pulleys similar or identical to this.. I have read zip about any of them specifically causing a failure.
> ...


Neuspeed, Autotech and Techtonics don’t sell lightweight under drive crank pulleys. I could not find anything on their websites. Eurosport does sell them. 

I have yet to see a dyno chart that shows it’s worth dropping the money on this product. If you ask me it’s a poorly designed placebo part and some tuners have figured that out.


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## autotragik b3attlewagen (Aug 24, 2003)

Nicefeet said:


> Neuspeed, Autotech and Techtonics don’t sell lightweight under drive crank pulleys. I could not find anything on their websites. Eurosport does sell them.
> 
> I have yet to see a dyno chart that shows it’s worth dropping the money on this product. If you ask me it’s a poorly designed placebo part and some tuners have figured that out.



Neuspeed no longer make it for the ABA, but the do make them for several other engines: 
http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=11|AC&type=11&ltype=&p_id=1825
if they were a bad product, they would make them at all. 

here is one from Gruvan for the ABA: grated its not underdriven, but it is lightened quite a bit
http://gruvenparts.com/website/cart/cart.php?target=product&product_id=333&category_id=60

BBM sells one: They know a thing or two about performance parts for vws
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/products/2555/Billet_Crank_Pulley_8V

Again, I have yet to see anything other the opinion, that show that a lightened pulley leads to any sort of significant wear or failure.

The predicable of a lightened crank pulley is simple.. less rotational mass. I hardly consider that a "placebo part" as you and some others state... Same principle works for brake components, supercharger pulleys, wheels, etc. Its very real... F1 teams spend 100s of millions of dollars chasing weight savings and less rotational mass.

As far as dropping $, it less then $100.. the ebay one I got was $40 shipped I think. 
very real deference between this and stock.. well worth the $ spent.


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## Fast VW (Sep 24, 2002)

So then the rubber ring does what nothing? Seems to me that it must be a very expensive nothing that car makers design specifically for each individual engine. You should contact them since you have personally seen 2 cars with these expensive nothings removed and saw no ill affects. That way they can stop wasting money on parts that are not needed.

Dick Shine has been quoted many times saying that in an apparently great running motor that has been using one of these "lightened" crank pullies he has found the main bearings (especially the first bearing) with unusual or excessive wear.

Try searching outside of the vortex.


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## Fast VW (Sep 24, 2002)

autotragik b3attlewagen said:


> Opinion does not = fact


exactly!


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## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

Using F1 as an analogue to these cars is just dumb. Don't do that. Furthermore, shaving a few hundred grams off such a small diameter disc/wheel does not make that much of a difference in terms of required rotational energy. You have to consider the fact that the crank was balanced for its operating load (ie the loading put on it by the connecting rods and bearings) and its because the accessories driven off it also create load that the dampener is installed onto the pulley. While I haven't had the opportunity to crack an ABA open thats had one of these installed I can definitely tell you from personal experience with type 1 engines that the quality and balancing of the pulley has a dramatic effect on the life of the mains.

I don't think the science behind them is BS, but the marketing and way most are designed is. If a person wants to do this type of mod invest the money in a proper set of lightweight alt/PS/WP etc pulleys and leave the crank alone.


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## autotragik b3attlewagen (Aug 24, 2003)

Fast VW said:


> So then the rubber ring does what nothing? Seems to me that it must be a very expensive nothing that car makers design specifically for each individual engine. You should contact them since you have personally seen 2 cars with these expensive nothings removed and saw no ill affects. That way they can stop wasting money on parts that are not needed.
> 
> Dick Shine has been quoted many times saying that in an apparently great running motor that has been using one of these "lightened" crank pullies he has found the main bearings (especially the first bearing) with unusual or excessive wear.
> 
> Try searching outside of the vortex.


I don't why your so militant about it dude, all I have said is that I have not seen anything... Not saying your wrong and I'm right, or anything of the sort. If you have something, then by all means present it. You are referring to Dick Shine quotes, please post a link so that we all can read up. I have an open mind for something that is based in fact/technical knowledge. :thumbup:
Every time I see one of these threads, people that don't like say "ohhhhh bad!!!1111!! " but never post specific data. 

There is no need for the attitude or personal attacks. 
I was giving_ my person experience_ w/ two cars, and giving my personal experience w/ said pulley. I am not saying that something that doesn't do as you are saying, I am simply explaining that _in my experience_ I have seen no ill effects. 
Like I said, technical data would be appreciated.. until then all I have to go on is my personal experience with my car that I drive everyday.


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## autotragik b3attlewagen (Aug 24, 2003)

MecE2.0 said:


> Using F1 as an analogue to these cars is just dumb. Don't do that. Furthermore, shaving a few hundred grams off such a small diameter disc/wheel does not make that much of a difference in terms of required rotational energy. You have to consider the fact that the crank was balanced for its operating load (ie the loading put on it by the connecting rods and bearings) and its because the accessories driven off it also create load that the dampener is installed onto the pulley. While I haven't had the opportunity to crack an ABA open thats had one of these installed I can definitely tell you from personal experience with type 1 engines that the quality and balancing of the pulley has a dramatic effect on the life of the mains.
> 
> I don't think the science behind them is BS, but the marketing and way most are designed is. If a person wants to do this type of mod invest the money in a proper set of lightweight alt/PS/WP etc pulleys and leave the crank alone.


To play devil's advocate.. Using the same example, could one not argue that a lightweight alternator/ PS pump/ Water pump has the same effect on those components?


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## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

Well you could until you consider that the loading is significantly less, they use completely different bearing systems and last, but not least, they are built to wear parts and cost significantly less to replace.


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## CodeMan (May 12, 2006)

If you have removed the AC compressor and are using a VR6 waterpump pulley, then keep in mind that you are already underdriving the waterpump due to the larger diameter of the vr6 pulley. Adding an underdrive crank pulley will effectively _under-underdrive _your waterpump.

Not saying it will overheat, just something to consider.


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## Fast VW (Sep 24, 2002)

autotragik b3attlewagen said:


> I don't why your so militant about it dude, all I have said is that I have not seen anything... Not saying your wrong and I'm right, or anything of the sort. If you have something, then by all means present it. You are referring to Dick Shine quotes, please post a link so that we all can read up. I have an open mind for something that is based in fact/technical knowledge. :thumbup:
> Every time I see one of these threads, people that don't like say "ohhhhh bad!!!1111!! " but never post specific data.
> 
> There is no need for the attitude or personal attacks.
> ...


I appologize, my response is definitely too strong.

I cannot find the older posts on here with Dick Shine's replies. It seems that some older info never made it over to the "new vortex". I will continue to see if I can find them.

The confusion that seems to occur on these posts over and over again is the difference between a "harmonic balancer" and a "harmonic damper". The engines that we are referring to are all internally balanced and require no external balancing on the crank shaft pulley (i.e. harmonic balancer). All motor however require a harmonic damper or torsion damper. This is simply 2 names for the same thing. The most common type for OEM applications is a tuned rubber damper.

When I was considering one of these, I did a lot of homework both on and off of the vortex. Not much scientific info on here but lots out there on the web.

I encourage anyone who is considering one of these really do your homework and then decide if the risk is worth the gain. Also researching it for yourself will allow you to make a decision that you are comfortable with. I will not argue that some people on here have removed the damper and SEEMED to be ok but after learning exactly what is going on in the engine without one of these, I will never remove one.


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## cis8vgti (Jun 19, 2002)

I just completed this mod about 50 miles ago on my GTI 2.0 winter beater. 

Installation was easy. Serpentine belt from Advanced Auto was spot on. :thumbup: 

I'm not sure of HP gains but car pulls better of the line. 5th gear passing is done with a little less effort. In the 2.0, any cheap HP gain is worth a look. 

No strange noises or vibrations. Alternator strong enough to recharge dead battery (I left key in car in the 'ON' position for two days). 

I'll recheck the torque on the crank pulley once a month for the next three months. 

My next mod will be the MK4 Intake. :thumbup:


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