# Looking for interpretations of my ABA Turbo dyno



## EuroSport98 (Sep 25, 2001)

Below are the results from my recent dyno visit. I'm wondering what opinions some of you might have to offer in terms of my top end. It's not a matter of fuel delivery considering I have a Walbro 255 inline and if you notice the AFR's, they're pretty much rock steady. Around 2 weeks ago I replaced the 3 bar FPR with a 3.5 to help bring my AF numbers down as it was leaning out and stay around 13 at WOT as it climbed through the high RPM's. At first it seemed to be doing the trick, but the ECU was smarter than me and over time adjusted the fuel trims to basically what it was at with the 3 bar FPR. Any ideas why it would be leaning out around 13 as it should be running off the maps?

Setup:
440cc Bosh Greentops
OBD2
Autotech 270 cam
Port & Polish/Big Valve Head
2.5 inch from the downpipe back (including high flow cat)
C2 42# software
T3/T4 Turbo w/ .63
11 PSI


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## gillano (Aug 4, 2005)

this is with cross flow head? or with counterflow 1.8l head


i'd be happy with that


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

I've yet to see a C2 software setup in person that's running at proper AFRs on a consistent basis, the latest C2 car I'm working on will be getting Lugtronic standalone. The AFRs are okay at low boost but the car's not making good power for what it is, the timing is all over the place under boost..

My friend's C2 630cc setup runs at low 13 AFRs and mid-high 12s with water/meth and a 4bar, all the sensors are fine and everything looks okay in the logs.

Don't get me wrong C2 software can work very well but it'll never be as good as a proper standalone with a good tune


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## EuroSport98 (Sep 25, 2001)

Yeah it would have been interesting to see how much timing was being pulled. My intention was to measure timing and knock with VAG-COM but the battery on the laptop drained by the time i got there. When i got back home, i reset the ECU so that it would erase the long term fuel trims, and drove around a bit with the 3.5 FPR and the AF's was back down to to high 11's to low 12's. It's only a matter of time before the ECU adapts the fuel trims, so I'm just going to put back the stock 3 BAR. I'm still weighing my options on engine management, but i might just end up contacting Jeff at United Motorsports and see about getting a custom road tune.

Gillano , this is a x-flow head.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

EuroSport98 said:


> Yeah it would have been interesting to see how much timing was being pulled. My intention was to measure timing and knock with VAG-COM but the battery on the laptop drained by the time i got there. When i got back home, i reset the ECU so that it would erase the long term fuel trims, and drove around a bit with the 3.5 FPR and the AF's was back down to to high 11's to low 12's. It's only a matter of time before the ECU adapts the fuel trims, so I'm just going to put back the stock 3 BAR. I'm still weighing my options on engine management, but i might just end up contacting Jeff at United Motorsports and see about getting a custom road tune.
> 
> Gillano , this is a x-flow head.


I can tell from the chart that your riding the knock sensor from 4000+


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## colovw (Aug 27, 2007)

This is exactly what the last few weeks have been like for me. Near identical set up, except I'm on the 30# tune. Been through the fuel system - everything seems ok, but for some reason still leaning out in the upper rpm's. My afr's are identical to yours. I threw in a 4 bar fpr that I had and it made a huge difference, but like you said, computer re adapted.

One thing I've noticed is that if I stay 1/2 to 3/4 throttle all the way through the rpms the afr's stay rock solid in the high 11 range, even at 6000+. I don't know if you've noticed this or not, but you may want to try it out. This makes me think that its not a necessarily a chip/fueling issue, but maybe something related to throttle valve angle. I'm going to align my tb once I get my pos laptop going.

One other thing - are you running the "race file" which supposedly is set up for intake and high flow cat?
I just thought of this today. I need to get the numbers off mine and check if I have it or the "street" version. 

I'll let you know if I figure anything out, and definitely post if you do. Good luck.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

I know this is going to sound backwards to you guys but try this. Your car is leaning out the curve by changing your fuel trims because at cruise and idle the car is rich and the ecu is making up for this by pulling the whole curve. If you run an adjustable FPR and lean it out to change the fuel trims it will also change your mixture under boost.


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## colovw (Aug 27, 2007)

TIGninja said:


> I know this is going to sound backwards to you guys but try this. Your car is leaning out the curve by changing your fuel trims because at cruise and idle the car is rich and the ecu is making up for this by pulling the whole curve. If you run an adjustable FPR and lean it out to change the fuel trims it will also change your mixture under boost.


Makes sense. I might see if I can pick up an adjustable FPR for cheap. I like the one that sits in the stock location, but any one should work right? Thanks for the help! I'm starting to think I should have just gone with stand alone.:laugh:


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Do you have a vag com cable? If you do then what are the long term and short term fuel trims?


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

TIGninja said:


> I can tell from the chart that your riding the knock sensor from 4000+


Correct...
want to see some graphs??????

1999 OBD2 ABA
Completely Stock Lower End
German OBD1 port matched to intake and exhaust......radiouses smoothed..Autotech 270 camshaft with TT adjustable cam Gear
E-Bay under drive pulley
My Home built MK4 short runner intake manifold
Stacked Victor Rienz head gaskets and ARP non undercut head studs
PSI cast exhaust manifold with external waste gate flange
Tial 38mm waste gate with 10 psi spring. plumbed in stainless back into the down pipe pre cat…..
Turbonetics T3/TO4B “S” trim turbo with a stage 2 exhaust wheel in a .63 5 bolt exhaust housing
Air pressure regulator as a boost controller 23-25 psi of Boost
3” Stainless down pipe into 3 inch exhaust with cat welded around it..(for Looks)
18” long magnaflow center resonator…magnaflow muffler into duel outlet exhaust tip
Paint matched G60 valve cover 
2.5” stainless intercooler piping into 2.5 in and out front mount intercooler..(painted Black) core measuring 3”x7”x19” 
NGK BREK8EIX spark plugs gapped at .026
4 bar FPR
Stock MK3 VR6 intank pump



this is C2 440 tune........at 24psi............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAprMsC2JSw&feature=relmfu









Got tired of bad timing and crazy AF ratios..and being told...its the car.......
sold the c2 stuff.......got a used 034efi 1c.......
had a bad idea to drink and tune......funny story....ruined the head...and 2 spark plugs
threw on a stock head...obd1.....then had a piston noise at idle......some more road tuning....SOBER........

then developed a smoking problem.....car not me....did this.........


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

2 part post..as the vortex acts NUTS ON LONG POSTS

anyway.....did this.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ermNd9B7jw&feature=channel_page










thats with 2 pistons with stuck rings....so with more tuning this setup should go 340 ish with good unmelted pistons.........

the lower 200/200 pull was first..at 10psi.......the 320 pull was right after at 24psi.....oh and thats 850 low imp injectors with the 034...still one intank vw pump:wave:


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

gillano said:


> i'd be happy with that


ummmmmmm no


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## thatofinthedistance (Apr 1, 2009)

sp_golf said:


> I've yet to see a C2 software setup in person that's running at proper AFRs on a consistent basis, the latest C2 car I'm working on will be getting Lugtronic standalone. The AFRs are okay at low boost but the car's not making good power for what it is, the timing is all over the place under boost..
> 
> My friend's C2 630cc setup runs at low 13 AFRs and mid-high 12s with water/meth and a 4bar, all the sensors are fine and everything looks okay in the logs.
> 
> Don't get me wrong C2 software can work very well but it'll never be as good as a proper standalone with a good tune


seems as if nothing can really beat standalone.



TIGninja said:


> I know this is going to sound backwards to you guys but try this. Your car is leaning out the curve by changing your fuel trims because at cruise and idle the car is rich and the ecu is making up for this by pulling the whole curve. If you run an adjustable FPR and lean it out to change the fuel trims it will also change your mixture under boost.


lame question but whats adjustable FPR? Id be upset if my car was making that power.


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## VDUBIN (Jun 28, 2001)

an adjustable fuel pressure regulator is a regulator that you can adjust changing the amount of avail pressure in the fuel rail.

here is a good one that fits in our fuel rails.
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_IV--1.8T/Engine/Fuel/Pressure_Regulator/ES5271/

with a guage...
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_IV--1.8T/Engine/Fuel/Pressure_Regulator/ES5705/


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

VDUBIN said:


> an adjustable fuel pressure regulator is a regulator that you can adjust changing the amount of avail pressure in the fuel rail.
> 
> here is a good one that fits in our fuel rails.
> http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_IV--1.8T/Engine/Fuel/Pressure_Regulator/ES5271/
> ...


Just a fyi:
o34 efi, bfi, eurospec, all have AFRP for less than that ^^^^^ These also all fit factory mk3/mk4 fuel rails and can adapt a fpr gauge if needed.

http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-i...regulator-adjustable-stock-fitment-p-174.html
http://store.blackforestindustries.com/mk4adfuprre.html
http://www.eurospecsport.com/products/components/fuel-pressure-regulators.htm


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Also when using FPR gauges you should use a liquid filled gauge for accuracy. 

http://www.marshallinstruments.com/products/CW00100.cfm

I use these but I get them from ebay for $22.50 shipped and you could use this in the same manner as the ECS gauge set or adapt it directly to any billet fuel rail.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

the best way for fuel pressure is that...or to be realy anal get an in car electric fuel pressure gauge or run the zetronics wide band and use its aux input for this...then you can watch fuel pressure at wot during a pull to see if your running out of fuel pump volume...


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## thatofinthedistance (Apr 1, 2009)

all good information. Im thinking of now getting one for my BBM fuel rail. :thumbup:


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Will post later.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Ok guys, I got the C2 stage1 chip with the race file. When I started the car everything was fine, but I would lean out at top end. So I got my self an AFPR from ECS Tuning and put up the fuel psi to about 38-40. I fixed the leaning out at top end but now I'm rich at idle and smoke a bit when its cold. So I got my self some Delphi 440cc injectors and can't pick standalone or C2 once more. Money is an issue for me due to the fact that I'm a high school student full time, and work with my step-dad when I can. I want to know if I get a C2 chip if it will be reliable.

Thanks, Rene.

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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

papo98jetta said:


> Ok guys, I got the C2 stage1 chip with the race file. When I started the car everything was fine, but I would lean out at top end. So I got my self an AFPR from ECS Tuning and put up the fuel psi to about 38-40. I fixed the leaning out at top end but now I'm rich at idle and smoke a bit when its cold. So I got my self some Delphi 440cc injectors and can't pick standalone or C2 once more. Money is an issue for me due to the fact that I'm a high school student full time, and work with my step-dad when I can. I want to know if I get a C2 chip if it will be reliable.
> 
> Thanks, Rene.
> 
> Sent from Tapatalk


Why did you bother with A AFPR 38-40 psi is 3-3.5bar fpr 1 bar = 12 psi.

To tune you need a true wide-band and a boost gauge and manual boost controller and access to a vag com if your car is obd2 also you should either get a custom chip from UM or do standalone because the race file for c2 should be ran with the same injectors, cam and compression along with a similar sized turbo as they built the file for and regardless every motor is different so there will never be a 100% perfect plug and play chip.

Other things that can be an issue
Check the quality of plugs and Gap also have a effect on the way the car will run.

Adjusting a cam gear retarded will make your AFR at idle richer adjusting it advanced makes the AFR go leaner at idle, if you have a head spacer you need a adj cam gear.

Making sure there is no codes in vagcom :beer:


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

I do have a adj. Cam gear. Can you tell me more about UM. Thanks for the info.

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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

UM is the company that jeff the guy from C2 started I cant find his info ATM but here was one of the sales
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...United-Motorsports-Software-Sale-October-30th!!

but a custom chip cost as much as a cheap diy ms or used ms


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

I've done research on mega squirt and its pretty hard. I'll call UM to see what they have to offer. Thanks a lot.

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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

This is the way my car is running = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbwdoDvqWpI

C2 stage 1
Stock FPR
10psi of boost
Narrow band
vac. is at -25 at idle


When I'm driving normal and hit the clutch its shuts off, But at top end it go's lean. I know its a narrow band but I feel it going lean. Any idea?


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Try another MAF


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

I have a 3in MAF and it still has a rich idle, lean top end. The tune calls for the stock MAF. But I will try changing the sensor. I need a wide-band. lol! Thanks.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

If the tune calls for a stock MAF then a larger MAF is not a good thing. This will cause a lean problem under high load.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

True but what could be the cause of my rich idle?

Also might swich to C2 stage 2 for cheap.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Warm the car up,then put a stock MAF on the car and let it run for a while. Then go drive the car around for a while (light cruise) and then report back.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Same, no difference.

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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Do you have a vag com?


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

No, but will a normal obd2 scanner work?

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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

papo98jetta said:


> No, but will a normal obd2 scanner work?
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk


No I need to see what your fuel trims are reading.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

I'll see if I can find one.

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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

papo98jetta said:


> This is the way my car is running = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbwdoDvqWpI
> 
> C2 stage 1
> Stock FPR
> ...


I'm betting it has something to do with the check engine light OBD2 does not like codes in the ecu at all... Get vagcom clear codes get a real wideband and follow the chip tune you have, if it calls for #30 injectors a stock maf and stock cam make sure those are what your using.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Well now I changed to the C2 stage 2. Now everything is fine other then when I'm cruising it starts to stutter as if I had bad spark plugs. All the codes are cleared. 

I'll post the video now.>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FigU8a9mji4

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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Bump need help.

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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Come on guys nothing?

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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

I looked at both videos and it could be alot of things.

Clearing codes with a generic obd scanner will not give you all the info needed, are you just clearing codes or are you fixing the issues as they get scanned.

Check and double check,
boost/vac leak 
Timing
bad o2 sensors 
bad plugs and bad gap

wrong stuff for the c2 file you have (I can not say this enough use what the file calls for or get SEMS) what c2 chip do you have is it even a turbo chip, what injectors are you using, what camshaft, is the timing set correctly?

Take some vagcom logs of fuel and o2 readings and post them, do a leak down make sure there is no vac or intake leaks.

Have you rerouted your BOV to be a DV?


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

I have the following:

Stock cam
3.0bar FPR
C2 stage 2 
440cc injectors
3in MAF
bkr7e with the right gap
Stock compression
Timing has not been touched.

I've cleared the codes, and this morning on the way to school one the cel came on. Going to check it out right now at my dads job ( master mechanic ) works a deel Volvo. So I hope I can get this problem fixed soon. And my car pulls around -25 to -30 of vacuum at idle. I don't think that normal.

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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

-15 at idle you have a leek


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

none, checked.

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## readytosoar (Dec 9, 2007)

what ended up happening with this?


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## .T.o.n.y. (Apr 3, 2003)

readytosoar said:


> what ended up happening with this?


 opcorn:


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