# Jetta 2011 2.5L Stalls on warm up



## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

Hi everybody,
Need some community knowledge/advise:

My Jetta stalls by itself on idle after warm up (start in the morning, leave idling, wait 10+ minutes). 
Then can be restarted immediately but also stalls in 1-2 minutes. 
If wait (let it sit off) for 2-5 min - then restarted with no further issues. 

If you drive it right immediately after morning start (or after work commute) - then on warm up it tries to stall on every stop sign or red light  
Sometimes instead of stalling it starts to rev up/down - it seems like computer tries to stabilize idle rpm. Immediate restart on stalling, does not help until you stop somewhere and let it off for 2-5 mins, then on restart it seems like computer forgets about current state and re-calibrate some sensors/actuators and runs flawless... 
No problem on high RPM/highway speed, just on idling. 

*No codes*. Definitely local dealers/mechanics say - give me or code or reproducible failure...

145, 000 Km. Maintenance were done regularly according schedule (15,000 km) at dealership.
Last oil change asked to replace fuel filter (they told it's not supposed, lifetime, but I've insisted) - no help.

Any thoughts/ideas are highly welcomed
Thank you,
Vlad.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

clamp shut the n80 purge valve vapor hose and see if the idle improves.

you can even do this without removing the engine cover.

if it improves, swap the n80 valve.

edit: next up, suspect the crank position sensor


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

This morning just replaced that n80 (seemed to me it was clicked too loud). Looks like idling is smoother...
But the main problem remains: after engine on idle passes 80C temperature it shuts off. Few next starts will stalls within the minute. Wait 5+ min, start - all runs smooth...

Also think about camshaft sensor. But as I read that if it starts failing it's hard to start the engine immediately after stall... But it's not the case. Moreover - when I crank engine to start I clearly see RPM needle is moving on the dash...

What's the way to check it? VAg-com?


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

faulty coolant temp sensor?

i know this symptom happens with the mkiv generation, but i have not read much about it happening with the later generations.

unplug the coolant temp sensor and see if it doesn't stall.


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

Do not know - the reading is pretty consistent - no spikes, downs... 
It looks like after 80C temperature computer switch something on or off and this things doesn't work good (thermostat? it seems to late for it at 80C)
Will try tomorrow to disconnect it...

WOW found by google: "OEM Coolant *82 Degree* Thermostat For VW Jetta Golf Bora Passat Beetle AUDI A3 TT" - So it's really the temp of switching the thermostat! (to be precise it shuts off when temp reaches 81C actually)

But what 's happening: thermostat opens and what? 
Big coolant circle engaged -> more water to push -> load spike on idling engine through water pump... and what comp doesn't know how to handle this?..


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ it's probably not that complex.

if for some reason the sensors aren't relaying the proper temp, it can send a shut down signal to your fuel/spark.

there are usually two sensors and you can read both of their values in vagcom to make sure they're reading the same.

one sensor is for the dash cluster and the other is for the ecm to use in calculating air/fuel ratios. it's a cross-check.


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

No, it doesn't sent shut down signal - in contrary - it tries to spin up (open throttle, adds fuel trim)!

Unfortunately I do not have VAG-COM, I use Torque with blue tooth OBD adapter to look at and log the engine data...

I sill do not understand what's going on: after replacing purge valve two days was just fine (usual commute to work and home). So I think that was the reason...
But right now, was half an hour drive and at the end, suddenly it started to oscillate on idle around 1000 rpm. Switched off, then on way back everything was fine...
Will see it later, maybe comp just learning how to live with new purge valve 

PS
Temperature sensor looks finw: according to logs it report reasonable data with no spikes or downs... It seems I have just one of it: there is no temp gauge on the dashboard on my model.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

didn't know that about the timeline of events.

how many days was it stalling?

was the n80 valve the only thing replaced?

it was fine for two days with the new 80?

did your old n80 have charcoal in it? this can happen if you top-off your fuel tank too many times. it will flood the vapor line with charcoal bits from the charcoal canister at the rear of the vehicle.

it seems like you're describing the symptoms of a vacuum leak.

also: crank position and cam position sensors are known to act up after the engine reaching operating temperatures. the symptoms can be erratic too. and can almost be explained by the fact that you say it works better after a few minutes rest.


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

It's few months already, sometimes it happens frequently, sometimes looks like everything is ok, then returns... I still do not see any pattern here.

Recently replaced fuel filter (the is 145K km already, thought it was the reason)
cleared throttle body (was really dirty), 
cleared MAP sensor in intake manifold (was oily)

Yes I like to top on the fuel tank (ok, liked  But the old n80 does not have charcoal inside, clicked too loudly, but... Right now checked it - it seems it works (closed non-powered and opened powered ;() 

I think about vacuum leek also, checked PCV,, but for vacuum it looks too unrepeatable.

Ok, next - replace cam position sensor (easy for DIY, but I've checked it resistance - looks in specks, but on cold engine only) c for DIY
and then camshaft one  (This one a little problematic for DIY - underneath - needs good stands, but anyway I do not like crawl under jacked car).

The only against - if they screwed up under heat - why it's not constant (or at least frequent) on hot car? Moreover, the car stalls exactly at thermostat engaging temperature (82C) - it's hard to believe that these sensors misbehavior so precisely calibrated


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

And to be honest 

When it happens while driving more often it starts to oscillate around idle rpm (not stalls immediately), like computer tries to stabilize situation. 
In this case if you let the car time to oscillate there are a pair of P0011 and P000A pending codes appeared which are cleared next start or two...
I suppose they are the *result* of the problem and not the *reason* of it...


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

Just drove 200km on highway - feels smoother then ever before (it seems that this n80 valve was worth to replace), BUT:
Right before entering highway (10min drive from home), on red-light tried to stall! #$% stopped on gas station for 5 min. Started - then all right the whole 200km...


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

VladL said:


> And to be honest
> 
> When it happens while driving more often it starts to oscillate around idle rpm (not stalls immediately), like computer tries to stabilize situation.
> *In this case if you let the car time to oscillate there are a pair of P0011 and P000A*...


are these not the codes you've been looking for?

pending or not that is a definite suspect for the symptoms.


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

Not sure: they appeared just in case you really let the car enough time to struggle with idling stabilization... Usually it's not the case

If you look at the logs they are crazy: O2 readings goes down to zero, fuel trim in opposite hikes to ceiling, Timing goes ups and down to its maximums also.. Looks like total disorder in command.

They flushed/cleared the engine changed oil. I can try to replace that n205 valve (timing regulator, but it's already princely) and cam position sensor... 
But if ti's the timing chain/tensioner - for this engine it's cheaper to replace the car 

Could it be O2 sensor? 145K - pretty good age for it? And temperature related behaviour...
Unfortunately Torque doesn't see actual O2 readings - it sees just computer substituted value "Bank 1 sensor 2", and only one. As I understand on all OBD II cars it should be two O2 sensors pre and post catalytic converter...

I went to dealer, asked to make check - they found nothing (though they saw those pending codes), suggested to clean/replace throttle body (it seems just because to suggest something) I refused - I've cleaned it recently knew its shiny now...

Found tne guy with vag-com - all tests are passed ok.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

i don't believe it's the o2 sensor. the only one that contributes any information for the a/f ratio is the bank 1 sensor 1 - sensor. you'll get definite codes for that.

i don't want to believe that it could be the chain or tensioner either; because this issue was cured back in 2008. also, you'd probably start hearing chain rattle if it was bad enough to throw pending codes.


the dealer saw the pending codes, but did they witness the poor idle?


i know you state the engine idles up and down to try to keep up with itself, but does it ever misfire? one indication would be a flashing CEL.

that's great you found someone with vagcom. there are other 'tests' that you can perform while the vagcom is hooked up.

check out all of the things you can check (vs. just checking for error codes): http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/

of interest to you should be in Groups 90-98.

you can also run a check on your entire evap system to check for misbehaving components on demand.

even test your throttle body too without removing anything; you know it's already clean, however you can test it's operation and even perform a recalibration if you think it would help.


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

No, dealer didn't witness stalling - the car was fine after drive there. But they checked those n205 and cam position sensors - said it's ok...

Here is the codes log from vag-com:

3 Faults Found:
000017 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake) 
P0011 - 000 - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced) - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 9
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 144710 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.08.12
Time: 08:14:31

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1052 /min
Load: 43.5 %
Speed: 52.0 km/h
Temperature: 85.0°C
Temperature: 41.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar

000010 - Camshaft Positioner (Bank 1 Intake) 
P000A - 000 - Slow Response - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 5
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 144710 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.08.12
Time: 08:14:16

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1483 /min
Load: 69.0 %
Speed: 43.0 km/h
Temperature: 86.0°C
Temperature: 41.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar

001287 - Idle Control System RPM 
P0507 - 000 - Higher than Expected. - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 144252 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.08.01
Time: 09:07:09

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1115 /min
Load: 17.2 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 83.0°C
Temperature: 33.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar

Just now payed attention that they (P0011/0A) had happened not on stop , but while driving (Speed: 43.0 km/h). 
So maybe it's really the reason. Just replace these n205 and cam position, not that big deal (~$200) compared to I've spent already on the issue diagnostic/cure


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

But they appeared (Time: 08:14:31) just during this unstable engine mode: first warm up. After stop for 5 min everything good.
That's why I believe this codes are result of the problem, but not the reason...


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

Wanted to get out this n205 valve and look at it seriously 
It doesn't move out. I afraid it stuck by rubber o-ring and if I brute force it I can destroy this ring and I have no spare one...

Tested resistance - 7 Omh and applying voltage (9V) does make click inside...


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

Pulled it out at the end - looks like nothing wrong. 
Cleared all oil and dirt as much as possible (used the same TB cleaner).
Also removed and cleared cam position sensor. It was slightly dirty with gunk.
Put everything back - engine still works 

Will see how it behave then...


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## cake1 (Nov 18, 2016)

*Any new info on this?*

I have a 2011 2.5 SE SportWagen and I'm having the EXACT same issue! It started out a little different, more consistent with a PCV valve issue and I had my valvle cover replaced but since then I'm getting the behavior you describe. Please update the thread if you get any new info on this!


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

*Update (sorry for delay)*



cake1 said:


> I have a 2011 2.5 SE SportWagen and I'm having the EXACT same issue! It started out a little different, more consistent with a PCV valve issue and I had my valvle cover replaced but since then I'm getting the behavior you describe. Please update the thread if you get any new info on this!


Ok, 
Ended up that I've replaced BOOTH n205 valve (timing regulator) and cam position sensor. It's, actually relatively simple DIY job. Booth cost me around 200+ CAD.

As I understand after researching various articles on the web: our engine does not have EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) valve. Instead it emulates it by adjusting timing of intake cam (compared to exhaust one, which is not variable). This recirculation occurs when ending is idle or cruising and only when engine is heated to working temp. So the strange stalling pattern...

BTW you can try to replace first just sensor (which is cheap and easy). then, if the problem would not gone - replace the valve also. I was too tired to make such experimentation and replaced them booth in one turn.

Good luck!


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

glad you got it sorted. thanks for the update.


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## UncleEntity (Jun 3, 2019)

*Update*

Hi, I know this thread is YEARS old, but I just bought a used 2011 Jetta 2.5 with the EXACT same issues. Did you ever find out what the true cause of the stalling/revving problem? Thank you.


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## ghaugabrook (Aug 6, 2019)

*2014 VW Jetta 1.8 Stalling*

Hi guys,
It appears I'm having this same issue. I purchased the Jetta about 6-8 weeks ago. I was driving fine until I took a trip out of town a couple of weeks ago on a 200 mile trip. My check engine light came on and I stopped to have it checked and the code was P0011 - Camshaft Timing Sensor. I made it back home safely. The next day, I started experiencing stalling when I get stuck in evening rush-hour traffic. This past weekend I took the vehicle into the shop and had the camshaft timing sensor replaced. It drove good for about 2 days and started back stalling while stopped in traffic or relights. I've read the reviews on the issue. I've check the vin and all updates and recalls are stated to have been completed. My OBD is stating again P0011 trouble code.

Was a fix ever found for this issue?

Thank you for any help you can provide.


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## ghaugabrook (Aug 6, 2019)

*VW Jetta P0011*

Was a fix ever found for this issue?


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

ghaugabrook said:


> Was a fix ever found for this issue?


Please read the solution above. The OP fixed by replacing N205 and cam position sensor.


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