# To update or not to update? 12.12 to 18.2



## Charles_Colfax (Jul 23, 2016)

Bump for a follow. 

Mebbe someone here can answer this for me...

I've got an opportunity to buy a legit VAG-COM cable and VCDS software license.

It is VCDS 12.12.0, unlocked full version software with all features available

Should I update it to 18.2, which I believe is the latest version. 

Do I need to be able to perform*short/long coding. Apparently 18 has superior coding support over 12.12.

From my research:

NEW Features of VAG-COM 18.2...

More DTC Freeze-Frame data displayed

Updated Advanced Measuring Value Selection Window

Major firmware enhancements for HEX+CAN interfaces

Improved UDS mapping speed and reliability when sub-channels are present; progress indicators

Fixes SRI reset in newer Crafter instruments

New ASAM data and Label Files

Many other fixes, updates and improvements

VC-Scope*(Live Data Graphing Utilities)

FWIW; I don't know what half that stuff is...

Thanks!

CMC

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## stan067 (Feb 25, 2010)

As long as it is a legit ross tech VCDS updates are not a problem and free.

Good Luck


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## bajan01 (Nov 26, 2001)

stan067 said:


> As long as it is a legit ross tech VCDS updates are not a problem and free.
> 
> Good Luck


I recently updated to v. 18.2. With Ross Tech I tend to blindly update but that’s just me. I did some datalogging on my SQ5 yesterday without any issues with v. 18.2. Going to do the same with my Atlas this weekend.


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## Charles_Colfax (Jul 23, 2016)

Yes, it's legit Ross-Tech

Just wondering of it's worth it. 

Is there enough value in the deeper long coding and the data logging capabilities to warrant it. 

Talking about a VERY mildly modded 02 Golf GLS AVH 5mt with minimal future mods planned. 



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## Charles_Colfax (Jul 23, 2016)

Is "long coding" something I am going to "need" to do?

I don't really know much about it. 

CMC

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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

I'll say this, There is no reason NOT to upgrade. It's not like an OS upgrade where you lose functionality or you get forced to update and if you dont update, you dont lose features. 
Ross-Tech does a simply excellent job managing their software. 

No. I dont work for them. As an IT Professional I admire the job they do. 

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## Charles_Colfax (Jul 23, 2016)

groundnpound said:


> I'll say this, There is no reason NOT to upgrade. It's not like an OS upgrade where you lose functionality or you get forced to update and if you dont update, you dont lose features.
> Ross-Tech does a simply excellent job managing their software.
> 
> No. I dont work for them. As an IT Professional I admire the job they do.
> ...


The OS analogy makes sense. 

The VCDS updates don't change any previous functionality, just add more. 

Even if it is functions I'm not likely to use. 

Unlike some forced <ahem> WIN "updates" 



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## Effinghamsandwich (Dec 28, 2017)

Depends on the car. I have 18.2 and vagcom is a total dud and worthless but for just getting DTC's. Vagcom was useful with my B7, I could get into all the modules I needed to. Now with my B8.5 it's practically no better than a cheap OBD II tool...no exaggeration. I think Ross-tech is going south because of the new module protocol in the later Audi's and VW's.


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

Effinghamsandwich said:


> Depends on the car. I have 18.2 and vagcom is a total dud and worthless but for just getting DTC's. Vagcom was useful with my B7, I could get into all the modules I needed to. Now with my B8.5 it's practically no better than a cheap OBD II tool...no exaggeration. I think Ross-tech is going south because of the new module protocol in the later Audi's and VW's.


I think you are still confused about how to get into Advanced Measuring Values:

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?9131009


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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

That's weird. 
I have not seen any drop in functionality or reduced capabilities. As a matter of fact, with the addition of a mobile option etc. I only see positive progress. 

I work on 4 different vehicles, a mix of Audi and VW from 2001 to 2017 and have full information regardless. 

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## Effinghamsandwich (Dec 28, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> I think you are still confused about how to get into Advanced Measuring Values:
> 
> https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?9131009


You're side skirting the fact that advanced measuring values is profoundly lacking and limited compared to the working Measuring block values. Pretty cheap response. 

You and the rest at rosstech need to stop the condescending stance you take with people. 

Nowhere on your website do you address or inform potential buyers that own later models like me of the limitations of vagcom currently. Go ahead, tell them that "measuring blocks is greyed out and you won't be able to get any measuring block values with your B8.5 audi A4...Now hand us your $300!" -or- "Limited functionality with certain Audi later protocols".

Of course, that would hurt sales though wouldn't it.


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

Effinghamsandwich said:


> You're side skirting the fact that advanced measuring values is profoundly lacking and limited compared to the working Measuring block values. Pretty cheap response.
> 
> You and the rest at rosstech need to stop the condescending stance you take with people.
> 
> ...


Please try using the factory scan tool (ODIS) and tell me when you find numbered Measuring Blocks in any UDS modules. Hint: You won't.


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## stan067 (Feb 25, 2010)

You go Andy..................
Some people just don't understand.

Good Luck


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## Effinghamsandwich (Dec 28, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> Please try using the factory scan tool (ODIS) and tell me when you find numbered Measuring Blocks in any UDS modules. Hint: You won't.


You reiterated what I said previously. Just like the obsolete software you guys are charging 300 USD for...Shocker. Like I said no better than an OBD scanner.
*This isn't stated anywhere on your website and unsuspecting buyers of later model platforms aren't being informed*.

Rosstech is done.




stan067 said:


> You go Andy..................
> Some people just don't understand.
> 
> Good Luck


On the contrary, with the older model cars you're using you don't know what this is all about.
*
So for all you late model Audi owners, save your money and buy Carista and Torque app. * Vagcom is no longer effective as it was ten years ago on the older platform cars and they aren't disclosing this.


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## stan067 (Feb 25, 2010)

Again you just don't understand!

Your comments are so stupid. That alone tells me you have no idea what you are talking about.

Has anyone chimed in too agree with you?:wave: 

Good Luck


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## Effinghamsandwich (Dec 28, 2017)

stan067 said:


> Again you just don't understand!
> 
> Your comments are so stupid. That alone tells me you have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> ...


Don't see anybody agreeing with you. Let me know when you get a late Audi/VW with UDS. 

You're obviously vagcom sycophant, fan-boy. Your diagnosis is shooting in the dark like the forum expert you are. Don't post just because you can. Learn how to spell as well.

And since you're into childish names and emoticons,

.....Good luck


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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

Effinghamsandwich said:


> Don't see anybody agreeing with you. Let me know when you get a late Audi/VW with UDS.
> 
> You're obviously vagcom sycophant, fan-boy. Your diagnosis is shooting in the dark like the forum expert you are. Don't post just because you can. Learn how to spell as well.
> 
> ...


So, I dont consider myself a fanboy nor a sycophant - I have tried both Carista as well as TorquePro, DashCommander, and OBDEleven. 
I prefer VCDS/Vagcom/RossTech. 
Others provide the same functionality - but make you pay for them incrementally. If you spend a little time and investigate the issue as well as how to correct (which any mechanic worth their salt does) VCDS provides the information to support that diagnostic process and sometimes a solution. 
Others will provide a solution, for an additional cost - and if you've diagnosed properly - might fix the issue. 
It is my opinion that this is a subjective review of an application. 

That said, the online availability of support and help with your car using an application THEY support is second to none. You can find forum topics here and there for others - but nobody is more widely supportive of their app than RossTech - and that's not subjective. 

I respect your right to disagree and not be satisfied with their application - and there is even a place on their website to do so. I'd be shocked that a reasonable approach with them expressing your dis-satisfaction was not satisfied.
I'm not shocked that a forum post attacking them in a forum they dedicate resources to support is not being met with eager responses to appease you. 
You've expressed your opinion here, which is what a forum is for - I'd recommend taking it up with them on their site, in a professional, fact based fashion. 
Just my 2 cents of course. 
I wish you the best of luck in your pursuit for reconciliation. 
I will continue to use a product that works for me and stands behind it in a wide variety of forums, sites and wiki's. 

Best Regards.
C

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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

Also, in full disclosure, I spent over $1K on a different tool called MaxiSys - and Vagcom outperforms it, hands down. 

For what it's worth. 

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## stan067 (Feb 25, 2010)

Still no one agreed.

Good Luck


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## Effinghamsandwich (Dec 28, 2017)

Ground and pound - hope you returned it. Doesn't change things. Won't work with later Audis. If you think that's functionality then you are one to waste money buying the 300 POS for a UDS car. 

Stan, go crawl back into your boring sycophant hole. If someone at rosstech needs to get's stroked - you top the list obviously.


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## stan067 (Feb 25, 2010)

My VCDS sure cost more then $300.00 and I am real happy with it.

Good Luck


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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

Effinghamsandwich said:


> Ground and pound - hope you returned it. Doesn't change things. Won't work with later Audis. If you think that's functionality then you are one to waste money buying the 300 POS for a UDS car.
> 
> Stan, go crawl back into your boring sycophant hole. If someone at rosstech needs to get's stroked - you top the list obviously.


I didnt return it because it works well for other males including US makes. 
As for the others, they also have their place. 
I work on a significant number of vehicles and this works well for them and the way they support their product on so many forums and assist shadetree mechanics AT NO COST is unparralled. 
I am researching what is lost in the latest models but look at it in 3 major "chunks":
1) Diagnostics : (for $300 all desirable)
- CEL reading/reset
- SRS reading/reset
- Antilock brake reading reset
- Tranny reading/reset
- Maintenance config
2) Vehicle "adaptation" (DRL's, window control with remote etc)
3) Module testing (turning components on/off to diagnose)

I use the first 2 almost exclusively so still would feel justified in the cost of #3 was not there. 

I appreciate the warning regarding loss of functionality - I am merely stating that I believe you have a better chance at getting you complaint addressed on their site because chasing it here just encourages "keyboard fighting". 
If you review the thread, the RossTech representation has been completely professional. I'd expect you'd get the same or more professionalism direct with them. 

Best luck, keep wrenching!


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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

Charles_Colfax said:


> Is "long coding" something I am going to "need" to do?
> 
> I don't really know much about it.
> 
> ...


Back to the topic, Charles, I use the long coding frequently. It allows us the ability to use different components with our Dubbs and add/configure functions not enabled by default, especially with the year you have. (Like the ability to control windows/sunroof with your remote, disable DRLs, use different headlights, change window wiper settings, lane change "blinks", lock/unlock acknowledgements (horn and lights, just horn, just lights or nothing), headlight switch changes (to control fog lights, use "running lights", parking lights etc.) and many other things)

In my opinion, again, especially for an 02 (which I have and work on) you cannot find a better program. Also, if/when you DO have problems all you have to do is post your scan results here and you not only get feedback from other users, RossTech will help you! 
YUP - the assist you at no cost because you purchased their product. I'd challenge you to find anything close to that level of expertise and support from any other product. 

Best regards, sorry for the extended sidebar. 


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## Charles_Colfax (Jul 23, 2016)

groundnpound said:


> Back to the topic, Charles, I use the long coding frequently. It allows us the ability to use different components with our Dubbs and add/configure functions not enabled by default, especially with the year you have. (Like the ability to control windows/sunroof with your remote, disable DRLs, use different headlights, change window wiper settings, lane change "blinks", lock/unlock acknowledgements (horn and lights, just horn, just lights or nothing), headlight switch changes (to control fog lights, use "running lights", parking lights etc.) and many other things)
> 
> In my opinion, again, especially for an 02 (which I have and work on) you cannot find a better program. Also, if/when you DO have problems all you have to do is post your scan results here and you not only get feedback from other users, RossTech will help you!
> YUP - the assist you at no cost because you purchased their product. I'd challenge you to find anything close to that level of expertise and support from any other product.
> ...


THIS was exacty the kind of feedback I was looking for.

I actually bought the 12.2 version, and will upgrade if necessary

it is still sitting in a nice padded envelope on the floor of my Golf, along with my generic scan tool that I use for my GM truck, and my OBDEleven module and Droid Turbo that I just upgraded from, wiped and will use specifically for BT connex to OBDE

Newp, haven't used any of them

Just been stemmin' the hell out of the 'W as my commuter, working stoopid OT, and dodging thunderstorms for days trying to finish rebuilding the front end of my truck (06 Z71 Suburban)

CMC


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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

Charles_Colfax said:


> THIS was exacty the kind of feedback I was looking for.
> 
> I actually bought the 12.2 version, and will upgrade if necessary
> 
> ...


I suspect that once you start reading all the $hit you can do, you will be very pleased. 
It took me about 7 months to set everything up the way I want it (like keeping my footwell lighting on while driving, adding a light sensor and upgrading headlight switch for full "automatic" lighting as well as auto-closing sunroof and wiper control, disabling horn acknowledgement of alarm, adjusting to flashing brake lights with heavy braking and others. 

I do use a BT ODB with an old droid phablet and DashCommander for an HUD - which is awesome at night. 

Enjoy. Look forward to seeing your progress!


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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

Oh - and stay dry! 
My other project is a '76 Nova with a 350. Good times for my son and I. 

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## Charles_Colfax (Jul 23, 2016)

Thanks groundnpound... I'll update this thread eventually

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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

Hey - no rush. If you want to PM me with specific command, or function option feel free. Like I said, this is by far the most effective diagnostic and programming tool for VW's. 
And once you get familiar with it, what's where and what you can do...well...working on Dubbs just becomes fun. 
Of course, that's just my opinion. I'm sure that there are others that would rather pay "$X.XX" for the programming string to make the change they want - but I'm the kinda guy that needs to understand the "why" (why does the change provided by company do what you are asking for) and once I do, I can logically jump to "Ok, so if setting that bit to 2 turns that function on, setting it yo 1 should turn it off" etc. From then on I have the ability and understanding to apply that to other cars, processes, requests and so on. 


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## Charles_Colfax (Jul 23, 2016)

groundnpound said:


> Hey - no rush. If you want to PM me with specific command, or function option feel free. Like I said, this is by far the most effective diagnostic and programming tool for VW's.
> And once you get familiar with it, what's where and what you can do...well...working on Dubbs just becomes fun.
> Of course, that's just my opinion. I'm sure that there are others that would rather pay "$X.XX" for the programming string to make the change they want - but I'm the kinda guy that needs to understand the "why" (why does the change provided by company do what you are asking for) and once I do, I can logically jump to "Ok, so if setting that bit to 2 turns that function on, setting it yo 1 should turn it off" etc. From then on I have the ability and understanding to apply that to other cars, processes, requests and so on.
> 
> ...


Will do man!

(Still haven't finished the gawdayum truck either... LoL)

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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

ROTFL - I have never "finished" any builds. There is always something more, better, stronger, lighter, blah..blah..blah..


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## Effinghamsandwich (Dec 28, 2017)

stan067 said:


> My VCDS sure cost more then $300.00 and I am real happy with it.
> 
> Good Luck


Sucker. haha


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## Charles_Colfax (Jul 23, 2016)

groundnpound said:


> ROTFL - I have never "finished" any builds. There is always something more, better, stronger, lighter, blah..blah..blah..
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


#truefeckinstory

Finally got the front end of the truck together. 

Still throwing codes for evaporative canister purge valve and two bad O2 sensors. 

And a bad left front Airbag impact sensor. 

Emissions stuff, impact sensor and 4 new (Chinese knock off, not AC Delco) O2 sensors laying on the workbench.



Did run the VCDS scan on the Golf...

Got code for right front ABS sensor, which I knew... I cracked the housing when I put new ones in all the way around when I did the brakes and suspension. 

Got code for B1S1 (upstream) O2 sensor, which I am not surprised at... I put Chinese "universal" sensors in and spliced the harness when I did the intake and exhaust. 

Cleared the Airbag light which I got because I'm an idiot. 

New Bosch 02 sensor and a pair of new front ABS sensors on the way thanks to Amazon. 

It's September and I never did put my "summer tires" on. But I drove the fawk out of the Bridgestone Ecopias it came with.
LOL 
Drove 'em like performance tires. 

I guess I'll just run 'em til November or December and then mount my snows on the front. 

(Since I'm not entirely sure when or if my big, bad 4x4 truck will ever leave my driveway.)

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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

Dude - that's outstanding. My wife wonders why I keep a bunch of beaters around...just for cases like that. Everything you mentioned is fixable, and the best part is that you already know why most are there. I'm not saying self inflicted, but self imposed maybe. 
I still have an 03 escape, 03 Dakota, 94 ram 1500 and a 97 Lincoln town car so I always have something to drive...
The strange part is that the Lincoln has more electronic equipment - including diagnostic programs (Dude I can run diags on the HVAC system while driving - its jnsane) than my '10 OR '15 Jetta or '16 Acadia! Plus air ride- its sweet. But when you think about it, the two cars (1997 Lincoln and a 2000 Cadilliac ETC) that were loaded and had self diagnostic systems were also the ones where the owner was LEAST likely to use them. I mean, you own one of those new - that's like $70K+ in today's money - tell me the last time you saw a CTSV owner on his back, sweating his @$$ off in °90 heat turning a wrench? 
Kind of like comped rooms at hotels - the ones who get thg get the free **** are the ones who could afford to buy the Hotel. Something's backwards...

**Rant Off** <-- sorry about that. 

Enjoy the VCDS, you will love playing with all the options. It never gets old. 

You know, you can "disable" the CEL lights by just removing the item from the config...that way you dont fail any inspections. As long as its not a "required" item, like seat belts - you aren't doing anything illegal. Even the airbags...all the fine print always states "if equiped", so just "de-equip" it and voila!

Good luck man. 

Also, just got a letter for the 2010 Jetta - for the class-action lawsuit - looks interesting. 



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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

Charles_Colfax said:


> #truefeckinstory
> 
> Finally got the front end of the truck together.
> 
> ...


Oh, BTW - I have 3 or 4 OEM O2 sensors, coil packs, plug wires, a couple power distribution blocks (that weird thing on top of the battery with 3 or 4 fuses in it) as that was the #1 cause of problems in the '00 New Beetle and the '01 Jetra w/a VR6. $35 saved me $5,000 in dealer costs... if you need any parts, holler. Glad to help out. Also have some suspension parts... 


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## Charles_Colfax (Jul 23, 2016)

Appreciate it!

I replaced the fuse box on top of the battery when I did my Big 3 upgrade and installed the distribution block for my stereo (which is also not installed yet, along with the rest of my black leather interior swap).



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