# WORST CAR We've Ever Owned: VW Sportwagen



## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

Our 2010 Jetta Sportwagen TDI reminds us all the time what a mistake it was to ever buy a VW. The only thing worse than this car is the company that built it. I know cars and we currently own, among others, a last-model six-speed Toyota Supra Turbo and a Mercedes-Benz S600 with a V12 engine.

When this Sportwagen was 2 weeks old, it started leaking water into both the hatch window and one of the rear passenger windows whenever we washed it. An actual quote from the VW dealer service department about our brand new car leaking water: "Not our problem." 

It got worse. The Bluetooth system in this car has never worked properly, either before or after the class-action Christensen vs. VW class action settlement (http://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...-volkswagen-bluetooth-class-action-settlement). In fact, the Bluetooth is far worse now than before they "upgraded" it, as we lost valuable features. A senior VW technician actually acknowledged it as "...the worst Bluetooth system ever put into a car." 

VW insisted that we take the car to a different dealer for a second opinion on the Bluetooth. (That VW dealer also did nothing to fix the Bluetooth problems, which persist to this day.) When we picked the car up, they tried to get me to sign a service receipt showing we had picked the car up a week earlier. Hmmm...suspicious. I had them put in writing the actual date we picked up the car. Immediately after we got the car home from that dealer, it had a terrible burning smell. Guess what? The VW dealership had completely burned up the clutch on our car, requiring replacement. Their pre-dating of the service receipt was a failed attempt to show that we had retrieved the car earlier and therefore somehow had stripped the clutch. Their ploy didn't work; it was their fault, and they knew it. What kind of clutch just happens to burn up ten minutes after you leave a VW dealer service department? (I've driven stick for years and had never previously had to replace a clutch.)

Back to the Bluetooth: VW told us in writing that they knew exactly how to fix our car, but refused to, even though they'd settled a class action lawsuit over it. VW said they would fix our car properly only if we signed a document from their lawyers stating that VW could sue us at our own expense if we ever told anyone they had fixed our car (if you'd like to see the document from the VW lawyers, send me your e-mail address and I'll happily share it with you). Apparently they didn't want other customers to expect their cars to work properly either. VW's legal threats, delays and attempts to muzzle us did not work. 

For years, we serviced this car exclusively through their dealers and we interacted with VW at all levels from local to corporate. They certainly took the opportunity to demonstrate time and again how lacking they are in both customer service and quality all the way up and down the organization.

There's nothing to hide: Our experience is documented, which I'm happy to share to prove anything I've written. There are other, even more outrageous stories about VW and this car which I'll share in the future. For now, let's just say that there is no level beneath which VW will not stoop, no matter how shocking, vile or unsafe and with no regard for deliberate harm to their customers. 

Volkswagen could reasonably be described as an evil company. Incompetence, contempt for customers and a refusal to stand behind their shoddy products seems to permeate this organization, from the dealers to the so-called "customer care" to the very top. We're quite pleasant people, not overly demanding, not cranky or difficult and never expect more than a fair shake. When it comes to dealing with customers, though, VW sets a new low.

Our car still leaks water, the Bluetooth still doesn't work properly and the list goes on. We'll keep this lemon until the extended warranty runs out or we just can't stand it anymore. We own and have owned over the years many reliable and enjoyable automobiles from other car manufacturers -- ones who are reputable, customer-focused and who build quality vehicles -- in contrast to the subpar Volkswagen. When we bought this Sportwagen, we certainly did not anticipate the inferior workmanship and poor attitudes we've experienced while owning this lousy vehicle. 

Here's hoping that our story will give others reason to think twice when considering a VW. For now, we'll continue to tell the truth about our negative experience with Volkswagen, their poor quality and their bad faith business tactics.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

I have owned many many VW models in the last 35 years and have never had any issues with any of them. My Mk4 GTI was in great condition after 13 years of DD use. My Mk6 has been perfect for 3 years.


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## hech54 (Nov 1, 2008)

Sniff sniff.....I smell something.


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## johnathanleesipe (Feb 9, 2015)

Never had a problem with a VW unless another person has f**ked it up


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## bluesbrothers (Sep 6, 2002)

so sorry to hear that you had one out of the thousands of cars that vw made that year with a problem. You said the car leaked water when you washed it. spraying any pressurized water into doors or windows (even just a hose) can make them leak. All because your car has Bluetooth does not mean that whatever phone you have is compatible with it.


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## B787Driver (Mar 9, 2006)

kcbobo said:


> There are other, even more outrageous stories about VW and this car which I'll share in the future.


Most of us have had an issue or two with a VW along the way. Having said that, no one comes on here with a rant like yours and saves an even more outrageous story for later. opcorn:


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## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

So you're saying VW offered to fix your Bluetooth problem and wanted you to sign a non-disclosure agreement but you decided to live with a broken Bluetooth system just so you could bitch about it on the internet? :sly:

The clutch was burnt up by the dealer. Not really a defect and the dealer replaced it on their dime. Crappy dealer, not crappy car.

Water leaks are a problem. Did you try another dealer? Did you contact VWoA? I know some older cars had problems with hatch and trunk seals which led to swimming pools in the spare tire well but if they were under warranty, dealers replaced the weather stripping without asking. When I bought my last GTI in Florida, this happened to me. Drove in, showed them the spare swimming in peepee water. Picked up the car later that day for a total out of pocket cost of $0.

Smells a bit like a certain luncheon meat product to me with that website link.


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## Phillip J Fry (Jun 23, 2014)

So when are you trading it in?


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

Okay, here we go: The only thing you smell is 100% pure unvarnished truth. Everything I've written about is fully documented, and I again offer to share any of it with anyone who's interested. I'm not whining, embellishing or making anything up, simply relating our actual experience. If it differs from yours, terrific, but that doesn't diminish anything about this car or what we've gone through with it. 

No mechanic outside a VW dealership ever worked on this car at all for the first 50,000 miles or so. There is no gray area. VW is 100% at fault for what's gone wrong with this car and their dismal lack of service. They simply do not stand behind their products, even under warranty. 

As for the Bluetooth, I personally sat in the car with a VW service person who tried for more than 30 minutes to get the Bluetooth to work before giving up in frustration. The only phones I've owned since we've had this car are a Samsung Epic, iPhone 4 and iPhone 6, so that's not the issue. The Bluetooth in our other vehicles works just fine. VW actually replaced the original inferior Bluetooth unit in this car with an even more inferior unit that has never worked properly (as bad as it was, it was better before the whole class-action business). I stand by my assertion that they do not not care about customers, period. 

As for water leaking into the car from the time it was new to the present, it's not okay. Our Mercedes, Toyotas, Acura and Kia never had any such problem. VW builds shoddy products and steadfastly refuses to address or fix problems, even on a brand-new car.

As for the non-disclosure agreement, maybe you're okay with being bullied and threatened, but we're not. "...decided to live with a broken Bluetooth system just so you could bitch about it on the internet?" Hardly. I don't need or get any validation from the internet and its opinions about our VW debacle. As I clearly stated, I hope that our story will give others reason to think twice when considering a VW. We'll simply tell our story and hope that through it others realize just what kind of company and product they're dealing with when it comes to VW. 

Did I contact VW of America? Of course, numerous times. I have wasted hours on the phone and written letters -- real letters on paper mailed with a stamp, not an e-mail -- including to the president and CEO of VW of North America. I never once received a response or even the courtesy of an acknowledgement. After awhile, one realizes and comes to accept that with VW, you're just tilting at windmills. Their lack of "customer care" throughout the organization is well matched to their lack of commitment to quality. Apparently, no one ever taught these people any manners.

Last but not least, "no one comes on here with a rant like yours and saves an even more outrageous story for later." Then I guess that makes me the first, because I just did. Sorry if you don't like my timing, but I will wait just a bit to write about one of the most egregious and vile incidents with this car, one which shocks everyone who hears about it and which, like everything else I've written about, is fully documented. 

When we bought this VW brand new, which was our first VW, we had planned to become longtime customers. We even test drove an EOS with a plan to buy one before VW started their nonsense with this car. 

I'm sincerely pleased for those of you who have had better experiences -- heck, maybe I'm even a bit jealous! -- but I assure you that had you experienced or lived with what we did with our VW, you would not have such positive feelings. Watch this space, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Happy motoring to you all.


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## johnathanleesipe (Feb 9, 2015)

Where are you located?


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## johnathanleesipe (Feb 9, 2015)

I feel like your making a ton of assumption that they don't care about their customers. I can go to my VW dealer and asked and have them fix things that the PO completely messed up. I can go and either have them order parts for my Mk2 or they will tell me the places I can order. Volkswagen isn't by far the worst company there is. They're doing something right they're winning awards for their cars. I also feel that your local VW dealership is causing you to think the way you are.


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## B787Driver (Mar 9, 2006)

kcbobo said:


> Okay, here we go: The only thing you smell is 100% pure unvarnished truth. Everything I've written about is fully documented, and I again offer to share any of it with anyone who's interested. I'm not whining, embellishing or making anything up, simply relating our actual experience. If it differs from yours, terrific, but that doesn't diminish anything about this car or what we've gone through with it.
> 
> No mechanic outside a VW dealership ever worked on this car at all for the first 50,000 miles or so. There is no gray area. VW is 100% at fault for what's gone wrong with this car and their dismal lack of service. They simply do not stand behind their products, even under warranty.
> 
> ...



Sorry for your trouble, but I didn't see anything new. Water in the car, Bluetooth, clutch, VW threatening/bullying you, mechanics, dealerships, all rehash from the first post. opcorn:


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## VRPARTY (Sep 10, 2007)

B787Driver said:


> Sorry for your trouble, but I didn't see anything new. Water in the car, Bluetooth, clutch, VW threatening/bullying you, mechanics, dealerships, all rehash from the first post. opcorn:


weird to hear. i've seen some crazy **** working for VW. I can imagine the dealership you bought it from may have broken the glass or something in a hail storm or other storm. fixed it and never disclosed the damage.. or it happen at port which is also totally probable. wouldn't hold the company hostage for it. the dealerships are independent franchises.


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## johnathanleesipe (Feb 9, 2015)

trbochrg said:


> He/she is somewhere near KC.
> 
> OP, Any pics of the 25 year old Acura you bought and love?


Ah


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## trbochrg (Dec 1, 2004)

johnathanleesipe said:


> Ah


You're quick! 

OP, seriously, any pics of the Acura? Also, I love Supra's.

Sorry for the trouble you had with the VW. Unfortunately sometimes there are bad examples and having a dealership that is difficult to deal with doesn't help.


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## johnathanleesipe (Feb 9, 2015)

trbochrg said:


> You're quick!
> 
> OP, seriously, any pics of the Acura? Also, I love Supra's.
> 
> Sorry for the trouble you had with the VW. Unfortunately sometimes there are bad examples and having a dealership that is difficult to deal with doesn't help.


I don't understand if the person had so much luck with the others why switch up and go to a different brand. I would of have to stay with the companies that I thought were reliable.


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

*(I wrote this one a few months ago) It's complicated...*

Not that simple. We looked at and drove numerous brands in an effort to find the kind of vehicle with the features we wanted. There are fewer and fewer options these days for someone like me who was seeking out a manual transmission with a specific kind of fully-featured vehicle, i.e. not a truck or a sports car. Most manufacturers only offer stick these days only on stripped-down versions without features like sunroof, heated seats, power this-and-that and all the other goodies. We wanted stick and didn't want to have to sacrifice the features. Looked at everything from Hyundai to Toyota to domestics, and the only ones we could find that gave us the room, the amenities and stick were VW and Subaru. Clearly, of those two, we made the wrong choice. I've never owned a Subaru, but they have a good rep, and nothing could be as bad as VW. 

Now, please allow me to address a few other things. I've read the comments about how it's not fair to blame the company but rather it's the dealerships that are the problem. If only that were so. As bad as the dealerships are, and trust me that they are the worst (more on that later, as promised), it was the reaction of VW of North America that was the most lacking, disappointing and, frankly, unbelievable. VW's customer service failings are outrageous, and I can prove it. What I learned through months of interactions with people locally, regionally and nationally are that the problems are endemic to VW the organization, not just their dealers. You can question me all you like, and you can even fantasize that VW cares about customers and quality, but I have experience that demonstrates otherwise. 

In my next post on here I will share the story of the final outrage, and I hope it will help you understand why we feel the way we do. VW is a horrible, heartless company, and they should be ashamed.


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## markoVW (Aug 17, 2007)

never had issues with my vag car(s).. aside of regular wear & tear.

sell it / trade it in.. go get a honda or toyota. may work better for you.

me personally, I'd rather push my dub than ever drive a H/T/N, etc. :beer:


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## smgs92 (May 21, 2013)

If you hate the car so much, unload it and get your subaru. Obviously if you have the funds for a mercedes like in your first post, you won't be taking a huge financial hit. Instead of coming here trying to spew your hatred towards what many of us feel and believe are good high quality cars. Personally I'd never take a Subaru based on how boring and basic they are. Not to mention weak manual transmissions, common occurrence of blown head gaskets and that they use 25yr old engines instead of innovating and improving.


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## rex555 (Apr 10, 2013)

Well there just may be a silver lining for your TDI ownership. Just wait and see what VW does for affected TDI owners.


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## Retr0 (Aug 8, 2006)

Op, I think a better solution is to present your facts and let us draw our own conclusions. 

Also, though I will not make excuses for vw or their dealers, understand their isn't a brand around with no flies on it. Present your case in its entirety and the reasonable people among us will weight them against our own experience.


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## kzemaitis (Sep 21, 2007)

*Best car I've ever owned*

Best car I've ever owned:

2008 Volkswagen Passat TSi Wagon 6MT


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## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

markoVW said:


> never had issues with my vag car(s).. aside of regular wear & tear.
> 
> sell it / trade it in.. go get a honda or toyota. may work better for you.
> 
> me personally, I'd rather push my dub than ever drive a H/T/N, etc. :beer:



What he said. But of course your experience may differ.

If you're in the northeast (or it's worth it for you to travel), I'd be glad to sell you a new Subaru below cost.


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## mcseforsale (Jun 5, 2011)

Where in CT are you brian81? I grew up in Manchester/SouthWindsor/EastHartford and lived in Portland for a while.

AJ



brian81 said:


> What he said. But of course your experience may differ.
> 
> If you're in the northeast (or it's worth it for you to travel), I'd be glad to sell you a new Subaru below cost.


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## robjettauk (Jul 11, 2015)

VW and Audi have always been top notch with me. Any warranty claim has been sorted in the fast manner with no hassle what so ever. Sorry you had a bad deal but all in all VW are a great company who make good quality cars. I'm not a fan of Jap cars as I find the styling not to my taste or the interior quality. My next car when moving back to the UK from the US will either be a SEAT, VW or Audi depending on my needs. SEAT Leon Cupra ST is on my short list.... Good luck with what ever you have next.


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## pete643 (Apr 23, 2003)

Well, my daily driver is a 2006 Jetta with the 2.0t engine that has 314,000 miles on it. It has had 100% trip completion reliability and the only time it ever failed to start was when the battery went bad. Far from your experience, I'd say it is the best car I've ever owned.


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

*And now, do I get to say it? You bet: I Told You So. (Sorry, just kidding.)*

The arrogance, the hubris, the lack of service, willfully lying and cutting corners and abusing customers...goodbye Dr. Winterkorn and hello Truth! Cheating on the part of VW comes as no surprise. I've been saying this car is a lemon and this is a broken organization for a very long time, and in less than a week, it has been proven true. I take no joy in being vindicated, and sincerely sympathize for the many tens of thousands of good, decent, honest, hardworking VW employees all over the world who are hurt by this. The destruction of VW's reputation, shareholder value and -- most importantly -- customer trust is devastating and an unnecessary tragedy for the innocent people affected by the scandal. When Michael Horn became head of VW in the US, I wrote a long personal letter to him, professional and reasonable and businesslike -- among other things, congratulating him on his new position. Neither he nor anyone at VW had the courtesy to even acknowledge my letter, let alone respond. The same exact thing happened with his predecessor, John Browning. 

For years, the management of VW has run this company as if it's a kingdom and we're their subjects. No more. You can be certain that I am now aggressively seeking injunctive relief from Volkswagen for their willful and knowing deceit and purposeful fraud. 

I spent years complaining about this car to VW, where my complaints fell on deaf, uncaring ears. When the car was a few weeks old and the windows started leaking, I took it to VW. Their response? Quote: "Not our problem." Those windows still leak to this day. After the first class-action settlement for this car, when I complained for months on end about the nonworking Bluetooth that they had agreed to fix but wouldn't, and then wasted hours and hours at three different VW dealers? Never fixed, still doesn't work properly, lacks functionality and unreliable. 

And now, as promised, the coup de grace of service nightmares: We took our car, at VW Customer Care's insistence, to a different VW dealer for the Bluetooth issue, as they wanted a second opinion. It was the same dealer who also completely burned out our clutch...and if you want the name of the dealer, just ask, as I'm happy to post/share it, because everything is documented. It was October. They had the car for a few weeks, and fixed nothing. The following spring, as the weather warmed up, we began to notice a foul odor whenever the air conditioning system was on. We used sprays, air fresheners, kept windows open, cleaned the carpets and still the rotten smell persisted. We took the car to another VW dealer, and they said nothing was wrong. The smell persisted. We had to apologize to guests who would ride with us for the funky smell in our car. Finally, after living with this for about a year, we took the car to an ASE-certified mechanic who had worked on our other vehicles. He speculated that the problem was a clog in the A/C system, and cleaned every hose and part -- yet still the smell persisted. He spent more time working on it, and eventually discovered the problem: The animals at the VW dealership service department had urinated in our cabin air filter. For real. (The car had previously been serviced exclusively at VW dealers.) But here's where it gets interesting. I contacted VW Customer Care and related our story. (And I had the offending air filter as proof of their disgusting behavior.) After a few days, Katie Fox from VW Customer Care in Michigan said on the phone that they believed my story and in fact did not doubt or deny that their dealership employees had indeed urinated in our car's cabin air filter. She went on to say that they considered this "strictly an internal matter between VW and our dealership" and would do nothing about this sickening offense -- absolutely nothing. They refused even to pay for just the parts cost of a new air filter. The so-called "Customer Care," like VW management, in fact could not have cared less. No "let us at least detail your car" or "we're very sorry, as this is not acceptable" or even "let us replace the air filter." Nothing. That was the last straw. Knowingly permitting the cretins at their own VW dealer to pee in our car's interior and doing nothing about it? That's when I knew that the way VW does business is unconscionable, and that this company is broken from top to bottom. 

Everything I've ever written in these posts is well documented. For those of you who would like to think I'm just a crank or someone with an agenda, sorry, I assure you that's not the case. I have no ax to grind or car type or brand to defend or promote. Alongside the VW Jetta, we currently own vehicles from American, Japanese, German and Korean manufacturers...hey, I like cars! I'm simply a VW customer who feels very wronged by this company and how they've chosen to mistreat and abuse me as a customer. The pissing in our car episode was the final violation, something which showed that there is no level to which this company will not stoop. My expectations were never that high or unrealistic, nor have I been overly demanding or difficult. We had realistic expectations for the VW, just as with all our other vehicles. What was revealed this week is simply business as usual for the company; this is how VW operates. It's not pleasant or easy to accept, but my experience indicates that a culture of cheating and arrogance is endemic to this organization, which has been borne out by the headlines of the past week.

And for those of you who love your VWs and are loyal to this company, I get it. Really. That's exactly how we felt when we bought this car. We were elated with this peppy little six-speed funbox. We truly wanted to become happy, loyal VW owners. We were ready to buy an EOS for my lovely wife to add alongside our Jetta...until VW demonstrated to us repeatedly how this company operates. Our Jetta now is as diminished in value as all the rest. I feel as defrauded and cheated and lied to as everyone else, and based on our experiences with VW, maybe even a little more so. This company is a fraud, and the way they run their business must change. There is no happiness in now learning that we're spewing large amounts of polluting nitrogen oxide rather than caring for the environment. Had VW not revealed themselves for years to be the kind of company they are, we would have been loyal customers for life. 

The point was never for us to go out and buy a Subaru or any other car instead of this one; that just happened to be a car, like the Jetta, with features we sought when buying the VW. And as for the engineering, there are some impressive and high-quality features to the Jetta, albeit overshadowed by the failures and shortcomings about which VW has proven they do not care. 

I hope you'll respond to this. In the meantime, I extend kind regards to you all, and thank you for your thoughtful and respectful postings.

As for the arrogant, out-of-touch and uncaring leadership of this poorly run organization? No one needs to wish for them to get what they deserve: They already are. 

In case you see us around, you'll know us by the one-of-a-kind bumper sticker that's been on the back of our Jetta Sportwagen TDI for about a year. It says, "Das Junk. This car is a LEMON."


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## smgs92 (May 21, 2013)

Sorry about your poor experience, however is your TDI urea injection? Or is it possible that some urea could have accidentally been spilt on your car? I find it extremely difficult to believe that someone would go pissing on your car especially considering the fact that urea is indeed cow piss. It sounds like you have had bad dealerships as I can tell you right now my experiences in the VW dealerships have been a complete 180 of yours. I took my car in for recall work when I bought it from a 3rd party dealership for them to wash and detail my car, give me a brand new rental car no questions asked, make sure I was pleased with the work ect.. 
Friend purchased 2014 Passat TDI SEL, had an issue with the head unit, VW replaced the entire unit within 2 hours and again took the extra mile to make sure he was satisfied with his experience. 
I would not expect the Head of VW to take the time to read your silly little letter and the fact that you believe he has the time to read those and respond to you makes me believe that you're very egocentric. I'm sorry but the world does not revolve around you and a head of a huge corporation such as VW has much more important things to do than to sit around reading letters from an angry Jetta owner. 
You may feel wronged but I feel the same way about Nissan as a previous car, still under factory warranty had a fuel injection issue. Took it into the dealership for them to charge me for diagnosis and for them to not even identify the correct issue. They said it was the battery, it would continuously crank over. Replaced the battery at my own cost to still have the issue. Ended up taking it to a independent shop to pay out of pocket for 2 new injectors. Nissan did nothing to resolve the issue, or compensate me because the work was not done by them.
See every car company has good and bad dealers and the fact that you seem to complain and act like a brat tells me that you are not very mature and this may be why VW has taken you less than serious.


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## FlyingTurtle (Mar 26, 2006)

DID someone really piss on your cabin air filter?


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## smgs92 (May 21, 2013)

FlyingTurtle said:


> DID someone really piss on your cabin air filter?


I highly doubt it. My guess is some urea got spilt on his car and he doesn't even realize what urea is.


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

*Business as usual...*

Lousy VW service? It's their specialty. You're very, very fortunate to have gotten that kind of service, because my experience has been completely different, as you can see from reading my posts. It appears that a few people posting here would somehow like to blame the victim so they can feel better about VW, but you are wrong. 

Do you seriously believe that a car guy like me doesn't know about urea diesel systems and wouldn't know the difference? Please don't insult my intelligence. I understand urea and am quite familiar with DEF and automotive diesel urea systems, such as the Bluetec version Mercedes uses, the BMW system and even the Dodge Ram version. Besides, to my knowledge, VW has never even sold a Jetta TDI in the US with a urea system, so try educating yourself. Maybe you have my car confused with the Passat TDI after 2012, in which they did in fact use urea. 

Look, the jerks at the VW dealer urinated in our cabin air filter, plain and simple. No urea system, no spill, no "he doesn't even realize what urea is." It is a fact and it did happen, so let me state unequivocally: The VW dealer mechanics urinated in our cabin air filter! Got it? This wasn't some fun little prank; it was vandalism. Even VW Customer Care, as worthless as they are, did not deny or doubt that this happened. They did this to our car, and we suffered the consequences for a long time until it was discovered. Remember, these are the same clowns who burned up the clutch in our Jetta. Don't believe me? I have all the paperwork from VW documenting it. The new clutch VW installed at a different dealer TWO DAYS after we picked the car up from this subpar VW dealer is the only clutch ever replaced in one of my vehicles. The so-called "technicians" at this VW dealership purposely burned up our clutch, they peed in our cabin air filter, they're just a bunch of...well, let's move on. 

After my ASE-certified mechanic removed the offending cabin air filter from that hard-to-reach spot, the piss smell in our car disappeared immediately. And when he smelled the filter itself? Think bus station men's room. These morons did this on purpose. I can only surmise why: When I picked up the car after the VW dealer had it for a few weeks, the whole experience was sketchy. They gave me a receipt showing I'd picked up the car more than a week earlier, which was odd, so I'd asked them to correct it showing the actual date I was getting the car. Then, I asked politely if they'd please wash the car, as they'd left it sitting outside for more than two weeks and it was filthy when they delivered it back to me. (Obviously not a good VW dealer, as their online reviews confirm.) But remember, VW Customer Care had insisted I had to take the car to the second dealer, which is why it was even there in the first place. Anyway, these guys apparently weren't happy about having to wash it, and told me I'd have to wait at least 20 minutes. Fine, I said, I'll wait. My guess is that's when they intentionally burned up the clutch and pissed in our air filter. 

Now, do you truly believe I was sitting around waiting for some handwritten note from the head of the biggest car company in the world? Get real. All I expected was any acknowledgment from anyone in the company that they had received my correspondence and understood my concerns. Nothing more, but in their arrogance VW couldn't even manage that. And by the way, to contrast this experience, I had written awhile back to the US head of another car company just to inquire why they no longer made a certain model of a car with a manual transmission, and guess what? As a fellow car lover, he took a minute to send me a personal e-mail response and explain. Not a big deal, and a great way to earn a loyal customer.

Your covering your ears and stamping your feet and not wanting to accept it doesn't make it any less true: This is how VW does business. VW Customer Care did not deny what their dealer had done to our car (both burning the clutch and peeing in the filter), did not seem terribly surprised by what they had done, and refused to do anything at all to address the urine incident. Had the response from VW as a company been different, I might have accepted that this experience was with an isolated bad apple in an otherwise good VW organization -- but that was not the case. The events of the past week only confirm what they've shown me all along: VW itself is a whole bushel of bad apples, rotten to the core.

Now, as to your assertion that I complain and am egocentric and a brat and not very mature? Grow up. Personal attacks and name calling? What, are you in 7th grade? You clearly don't know the first thing about anything you are saying. I would contend that in fact it is you who are naive and childish, taken in by your preconceived notions of VW being all about lollipops and rainbows in your happy little world. In fact, it is now quite apparent that very influential members of the management and engineering staff of this company are cynical cheaters and schemers, purposefully duping their dealers and customers and conning rubes like you. They admitted as much this week when the head of the worldwide company resigned in disgrace. And why? Oh, yeah: For lying and cheating, just as I said this company does months ago. This wasn't some little oversight or a wayward staffer, it was an intentional and organized corporate rigging of their cars in an attempt to cheat a system with which they could not comply honestly and fairly. And that's a fact, so deal with it. Actually, never mind. It's okay, the attorneys and the adults will work it out.

Kind regards.


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## mcseforsale (Jun 5, 2011)

No lollipops or rainbows here. I've dealt with some REALLY crappy service centers in VW and other brands. It's almost market-specific. If there's no litigation currently on the books, can you call out the dealer that is causing this issue to warn the community?

AJ


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

*The truth...how refreshing.*

I'd be happy to, as everything I've written here is fully supported by documents. However, there is in fact litigation, and I want to consult my attorney before specifically naming them, as the dismal overall ownership experience could be pertinent to our already-filed lawsuit (along with VW's obvious emissions fraud). 

I will say this: If you care to, look for the worst-reviewed VW dealer you can find in Kansas City...maybe 2.5 stars out of 5 (and any positive reviews were probably their employees). These unscrupulous clowns should have been put out of business a long time ago. It appears to me that only the apparent complicity of the VW organization and their ironically-named "Customer Care" has enabled these dishonest, incompetent losers to continue abusing customers for as long as they have. I've already named an individual at VW Customer Care, so obviously I'm 100% confident that everything I've written here is truthful. 

It was like an alarm bell going off: When VW's Customer Care representative said to me that their own VW-branded dealership employee's urinating in our cabin air filter was nothing more than "an internal matter between Volkswagen and our dealership," it was a red flag to me that this company is broken, and has endemic issues and much larger problems, as has been borne out in the past week. They have no sense of shame and no concern for their customers. They clearly feel no responsibility to the VW owners who have spent considerable sums to drive their vehicles and have made them the world's largest carmaker. VW has been hiding behind aggressive lawyers and sneaky tactics for years. And now, as we all have learned, they also have no regard for the environment or people's health. 

I'll say it again: This is how VW does business. It was a story begging to be told. Look at my posts from months ago. It took awhile for the truth to be revealed, but now it has, and the whole world can finally see this company for how it actually operates.


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## DEZLBOY (Feb 16, 1999)

Two questions: (1) Why didn't you hire a lawyer whose specialty is cars, poor service, lemon laws, etc? (2) Make a police report per the piss on cabin filter as that is vandalism.


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

*Good questions. The short answer: VW = Bad Faith.*

Those are both reasonable questions, and here are the answers. Stay with me, because it takes a little explaining. 

After VW refused to repair our Bluetooth system (it still doesn't work right to this day, lost functions, etc.), I did in fact contact the attorneys for the class action suit affecting our VW, which you can find online (Christensen, et al. v. Volkswagen of America, Inc.). Those attorneys tried to get it resolved, but Volkswagen was intractable. The VW attorneys stonewalled us, they categorically refused to fix it, and they dragged it out until even my lawyers finally gave up. (I had refused to sign VW's proposed release, as it enabled Volkswagen to sue me at my own expense if I ever even told anyone they'd agreed to fix our car.) 

Most people have no idea just how dishonorable a company Volkswagen is, but unless unbearable public and government pressure is brought on VW because of this cheating scandal, I have a feeling about 481,999 other Volkswagen diesel owners are about to soon find out. 

Anyway, the class-action attorneys told me that the VW lawyers were some of the worst and most difficult they'd ever encountered. VW dug in their heels and simply refused to do what they'd promised. (Are you listening, fellow owners of EA 189 diesels? You heard it here first.) So...it was many months later, after that rotten Bluetooth episode, when we finally discovered the urine in our cabin air filter. They'd pissed in it in October, and we didn't even use the a/c until the following Spring. Then it took a long time to figure out what the rancid smell was, and that it wasn't a malfunction of the car itself.

One of the first things I did upon finding out how the dealer had defiled our formerly pristine car was contact VW Customer Care, thinking they would of course come to our assistance. Wrong! That's when Katie Fox from VW Customer Care told me that their urinating in our car was "an internal matter between Volkswagen and our dealership...we aren't going to do anything for you." Frustrated, I then again contacted the class action lawyers in Florida, as I figured they'd already sued VW. An excerpt from their subsequent note to me: "I’ve discussed this with VW’s attorney and, unfortunately, they don’t seem inclined to be of assistance." That was in reference to both our Bluetooth problems AND their urinating in our car. This is how VW does business: in bad faith. 

Per your question below, I had in fact contacted "a lawyer whose specialty is cars, poor service, lemon laws, etc." -- and one who even had experience suing VW. So now I'd tried legal action, had tried to go public with my story -- writing everyone from the New York Times to local media (except VW was a very big advertiser in all of them...), called the state attorney general's office and on and on...and got nowhere.

As for a police report, I had retained the reeking cabin air filter as the disgusting "evidence," so I did have proof. That was a plus, but it had been awhile between the time the swine at the local VW dealer committed this act and when we discovered it. What are the police supposed to do at that point? Who would they go after...the entire VW dealer service department? Of course it was vandalism, not to mention a hazard to our health and the behavior of barnyard animals. (No offense intended to barnyard animals, as they have far better manners than the VW dealer staff.) 

Which brings us to the present. After my tilting at windmills with this VW leviathan for years, it is satisfying to see the leadership of this company finally brought down and exposed as the cheating, lying, scheming, cynical, customer-hating people they are. From the local dealer to the top brass in Wolfsburg, this company acts as though they are in charge of the customers, and that we are here to serve them. It's a broken organization. Look at their willful, flagrant violation of our Clean Air Act. They probably were laughing over their beers about what chumps the Americans are, driving what we thought were environmentally conscious cars while dumping 40 times the legal amount of nitrogen oxide into the air. I don't know about you, but I like breathing, and greatly resent VW's attempts to interfere with it. 

I am a person of integrity, and have tried to handle our VW ownership problems in an honest, reasonable and forthright way. When you're dealing with a company like VW, though, good people get taken advantage of and honest people get cheated. That's how they do business, and in the short term it worked beautifully for them. In the long term, the real truth is finally out: Truth in Engineering, indeed. One can only hope that VW will continue to get what has been coming to it for a long time and what it so justly deserves, from the disgraced CEO on down, and that the good people who were duped into buying into their diesel technology fantasy will not have to suffer financially or in any other way for being victims of this deliberate and carefully planned corporate malfeasance.

Kind regards.


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## mkane (May 7, 2015)

Interesting post there. From one that may have purchased the last TDI in North America.


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## FlyingTurtle (Mar 26, 2006)

OP, seems like you are emotionally devastated by this whole ordeal. I am terribly sorry to see you go through this, and I can only imagine your family. To be honest, if I found out someone urinated in my cabin filter, I wouldn't have kept my cool like you did. That is beyond any boundaries. Just get rid of the car, and move on bud. We are planning to unload all our VWs and honestly never again. 2013 Jetta TDI and 2012 Passat SE. Sometimes opposition is too powerful.


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## syncro87 (Apr 24, 2000)

Have you attempted to personally contact John Molle about your air filter incident?


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## smg64ct203 (Jan 26, 2003)

I believe what your saying. I had 2 major lemons and swore off VW's for years. I was drawn to the new GTI like a moth to a flame. I could share a few of my stories too.


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## Mark O. (Aug 25, 2014)

I'm try to take people at face value, and trying to see your side of things, but you say: 

The following spring, as the weather warmed up, we began to notice a foul odor whenever the air conditioning system was on. We used sprays, air fresheners, kept windows open, cleaned the carpets and still the rotten smell persisted. We took the car to another VW dealer, and they said nothing was wrong. The smell persisted. We had to apologize to guests who would ride with us for the funky smell in our car. Finally, after living with this for about a *year*, we took the car to an ASE-certified mechanic who had worked on our other vehicles. He speculated that the problem was a clog in the A/C system, *and cleaned every hose and part* -- yet still the smell persisted. He spent more time working on it, and eventually discovered the problem...

Why wouldn't a mechanic check the air filter first? Also, I think I would notice the smell was worse when the A/C was on...especially after a year, I would see (urr smell) a correlation it seems. Anyway, if you get justice because of the EPA thing, then hopefully you will feel vindicated.


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

*That's a fair question...*



Mark O. said:


> I'm try to take people at face value, and trying to see your side of things, but you say:
> 
> The following spring, as the weather warmed up, we began to notice a foul odor whenever the air conditioning system was on. We used sprays, air fresheners, kept windows open, cleaned the carpets and still the rotten smell persisted. We took the car to another VW dealer, and they said nothing was wrong. The smell persisted. We had to apologize to guests who would ride with us for the funky smell in our car. Finally, after living with this for about a *year*, we took the car to an ASE-certified mechanic who had worked on our other vehicles. He speculated that the problem was a clog in the A/C system, *and cleaned every hose and part* -- yet still the smell persisted. He spent more time working on it, and eventually discovered the problem...
> 
> Why wouldn't a mechanic check the air filter first? Also, I think I would notice the smell was worse when the A/C was on...especially after a year, I would see (urr smell) a correlation it seems. Anyway, if you get justice because of the EPA thing, then hopefully you will feel vindicated.


...and the answer is that a reasonable mechanic would not have any reason to look at the cabin air filter first nor suspect it had been peed on or tampered with. In fact, the cabin filter might not even have been original to the car, possibly having already been replaced at the VW dealer under normal maintenance. Why would a mechanic suspect that a filter installed by VW that is so hard to reach in the first place would have anything to do with this? I certainly had never even seen the filter, and no one but VW dealers had ever done any previous work on our car. Heck, a lot of good, qualified mechanics outside VW probably wouldn't know that this car even HAS a cabin air filter! (The engine air filter is another story, and it of course had been checked and replaced.) Have to hand it to those nasty little creeps at the VW dealer: They found an ingenious way to create havoc for us and still make it undetectable for a long time. What these VW guys did was sneaky and wrong and cheated me as a customer and...hey, wait a minute...where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah: VW as a company did the same thing on a much larger scale to 11 million car owners and our global environment. 

Try to imagine for a moment how you'd feel upon finding out over time that the VW dealer with whom you entrusted your valued (and still covered under warranty) car had intentionally burned up your clutch and urinated in your cabin air filter. What was most instructive was VW's tacit endorsement of this by Customer Care acknowledging it and then refusing to do anything about it. 

Our lawsuit is already filed. Newspapers, magazines, TV...as the headlines show, the wheels of justice have already begun to turn. What will be interesting to see is how VW, in keeping with established company practice, will try to wriggle out of their global embarrassment and screw their customers once again.


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## mcseforsale (Jun 5, 2011)

If a car stinks (which mine kinda did when I bought it), the *FIRST* thing I do is replace the cabin air filter. Did in in our MPV, my B5.5 and my CC. 

AJ


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

*This was my first...*

...time owning a VW car and interacting with Volkswagen as a company, so unlike you with greater experience, allowances must be made for the fact that I had not yet discovered how much both the car and the company that made it truly stink.


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## FSICARBON (Oct 5, 2015)

Agreed, any mechanic that doesn't check the cabin air filter first for a HVAC odor needs to go back to training. It is impossible to clean every hose or pipe in the a/c system without disassembling the dash and air housing (8 to 10 hr. job).


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## mcseforsale (Jun 5, 2011)

It's not make specific. Cabin air filters are usually the cause of funk. The MPV has 2 cabin air filters...both of which were covered in all sorts of dirt, dust and those helicopter things that fall off trees.

AJ



kcbobo said:


> ...time owning a VW car and interacting with Volkswagen as a company, so unlike you with greater experience, allowances must be made for the fact that I had not yet discovered how much both the car and the company that made it truly stink.


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## crrdslcvr6 (May 3, 2006)

Get rid of the car and get something you like. Life is really to short to waste anymore time complaining about this. You aren't happy with the car & you expressed this countless times on the forum. Time to move on.


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

*Thanks...*



crrdslcvr6 said:


> Get rid of the car and get something you like. Life is really to short to waste anymore time complaining about this. You aren't happy with the car & you expressed this countless times on the forum. Time to move on.


...for your dismissive observations and advice, but it's not that easy. A few weeks ago, before their fraud was exposed, that might have been a possibility, but we're now mired in this like everyone else. Your opinion doesn't matter. What does is the fact that VW as an organization is at last getting the "recognition" they deserve and treatment commensurate with their arrogant, fraudulent and abusive behavior.


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## mcseforsale (Jun 5, 2011)

Is the car OK, now? Or are you still having issues with it (I did read the entire thread, but my mind wanders, you know...).

AJ


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## crrdslcvr6 (May 3, 2006)

kcbobo said:


> ...for your dismissive observations and advice, but it's not that easy. A few weeks ago, before their fraud was exposed, that might have been a possibility, but we're now mired in this like everyone else. Your opinion doesn't matter. What does is the fact that VW as an organization is at last getting the "recognition" they deserve and treatment commensurate with their arrogant, fraudulent and abusive behavior.


Dismissive because in your first post you felt the need to mention the other cars you own, not cheap to own or maintain. So you either have resources to overcome this problem or you're a bs artist.


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

*It's about...*

...principle, not resources. The "need" to mention that I own fine automobiles? Hardly. Sour grapes, eh? Besides, precisely WTH does my owning other fine, desirable vehicles have to do with VW being a lousy car company that builds shoddy products, advertises fraudulent, non-existent feats of engineering and knowingly poisons our environment out of greed and arrogance? 

Resources, eh? My options were to pay for repairs that VW should cover, like leaky windows in a brand new car and a bluetooth that doesn't work, etc., or to sell the car and move on to another brand (and at this point, as the headlines affirm, just about any other car brand is better than Volkswagen). While I could comfortably afford to do either, I have chosen not to do so yet. Besides, I have an extended warranty that covers everything on this car, so I'm not motivated to get rid of this lemon until that warranty expires. 

Amateurish ad hominem thoughts might best be kept to oneself.


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

*As of now...*

...the windows still leak when the car is washed, as they have since the car was brand new. VW's response? "Not our problem."

The bluetooth doesn't work properly and never has. VW actually removed some functionality as part of their "fix" from the class-action lawsuit they settled over the bluetooth in this car, and they refuse to restore or fix it. This bluetooth is about as worthless as the company who built this car.

The tire pressure monitor system is totally haywire.

It goes on.

We of course replaced the cabin air filter in which the VW personnel urinated and had the car detailed. VW Customer Care, while not denying what they had done to our car, refused even to pay for the filter.

This is not a good company, and the whole world is finally learning about the real VW and their fraud, lies, willful deceit and capricious attitude toward customers and the environment. Operating in bad faith can only take a company so far, and the events of the past month bear that out.

Until our lawsuit is settled and/or the extended warranty runs out, we'll probably be stuck with this car.

Thank you for asking, AJ, and a sincere thanks for your concern.


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## syncro87 (Apr 24, 2000)

crrdslcvr6 said:


> Get rid of the car and get something you like. Life is really to short to waste anymore time complaining about this. You aren't happy with the car & you expressed this countless times on the forum. Time to move on.


This.

All I can say is what I would do in your situation. If I was as frustrated with a car as you seem to be in this case, and I could comfortably afford to get something else as you state in one of your posts, I'd be rid of it. Life is too short to live with something this irritating if you have the means to get out of the situation. Dump it, move on, never buy another VW. Continuing to beat your head against this wall accomplishes nothing that I can tell. Cut the cord.


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## T5 Dave (Nov 30, 2001)

kcbobo said:


> And now, as promised, the coup de grace of service nightmares: We took our car, at VW Customer Care's insistence, to a different VW dealer for the Bluetooth issue, as they wanted a second opinion. It was the same dealer who also completely burned out our clutch...and if you want the name of the dealer, just ask, as I'm happy to post/share it, because everything is documented. It was October. They had the car for a few weeks, and fixed nothing. The following spring, as the weather warmed up, we began to notice a foul odor whenever the air conditioning system was on. We used sprays, air fresheners, kept windows open, cleaned the carpets and still the rotten smell persisted. We took the car to another VW dealer, and they said nothing was wrong. The smell persisted. We had to apologize to guests who would ride with us for the funky smell in our car.
> 
> Finally, after living with this for about a year, we took the car to an ASE-certified mechanic who had worked on our other vehicles. He speculated that the problem was a clog in the A/C system, and cleaned every hose and part -- yet still the smell persisted. He spent more time working on it, and eventually discovered the problem: The animals at the VW dealership service department had urinated in our cabin air filter.


Hmm. What proof do you have that this dealer did this deliberately and, say, was not caused by other means like a cat or other animal that peed on the cowl and it dripped onto the cabin filter? I'm having a hard time believing it was undetected for 6 months when the heater would have warmed up the cabin filter just as much as the outside air. Did you do a DNA test on the cabin filter and confirm it was human urine? Even if it were, how would you prove that the dealer did it 6 months previously and an annoyed neighbor or vandals in your neighborhood or where you parked it didn't? (Heck, maybe even it was someone used your car as a baby changing station in a parking lot and the kid let loose at the blast of cold air)

How can you be so sure the dealer did it based on the fact you operated the car outside the control of the dealer for that long?


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## FSICARBON (Oct 5, 2015)

*Peed on my filter!!*

This is such a shame, that cabin air filter really brought the room together.


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## GLIguy2006 (Mar 16, 2010)

*Trepidation, a bit*

I saw another thread where it appeared a person with 10,000+ posts here was basically trolling the OP. Making a post in the face of someone that posts that often is inviting a headache.

The above said, a few points on the KC lemon VW OP here. You have a lot of skin in the game, so I am surprised you never mentioned how VW went about resolving the 'KDF car' and slave laborer lawsuits from the 3rd Reich era. Are you or your lawyer(s) aware of the legal strategies used by VW in those matters?

I do not have issues with 'trust' being ruined when dealing with car makers. As a New Yorker, I trust no one. The thought of trusting anyone in the car business is laughable.

A certain percentage of cars made by all auto manufacturers are what would now be legally defined as 'lemons'. Many have a consumer, and their story.

Litigation, noting that I have a law degree, am not an attorney nor extend legal advice herein, and am NOT up to speed on the laws involving new or used cars in what I infer is your state of residence (Missouri), should have been an early option. You could have also moved ahead pro se, in small claims, for example just for a limited recourse (e.g., five grand for the value of the bluetooth).


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## mcseforsale (Jun 5, 2011)

LOL. As a dude from Ct., I trust no one from New York (or Bahston for that matter). Hehehe.

Anyway, great post. Excellent points.

AJ




GLIguy2006 said:


> As a New Yorker, I trust no one.


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## epat (Sep 18, 2012)

Worst car I owned was a 2010 Golf 2.5. Wouldn't idle below 1800 unless at the dealership, the CEL was on almost all the time, it had less than 18000 miles on it and VWoA finally bought it back. But that didn't stop me from buying VW again... After that car I ended up with an 08 Rabbit, which was a fantastic car that some nice gentleman totaled when he rear ended me. And that replacement is my 11 GTI. So far reliability has been good (knock on wood). So you just got a lemon, fix the leak yourself, and replace the head unit/bluetooth with an aftermarket deck and you will be so much happier.

If you are looking for sympathy go to a Toyota or Honda forum, you ain't finding it here.


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## vwRabbitvw (Apr 24, 2011)

I don't know what to say. I feel really bad for your experiences. I really do. Unfortunately you went to two very bad VW dealerships that treated you like dirt. I don't doubt that employees from that dealership pissed on your filter to "get back at you." Now that the well known TDI issue is out of the bag hopefully you get every cent and then some back. Under the circumstances the TDI issue may be the best thing that could have happened to you. Perhaps now, after all, you'll get compensated for your troubles. 

I own a 2008 VW Rabbit. Lovely car. No problems whatsoever. Fun to drive. So many aftermarket upgrade choices are available. The Rabbit/Golf are IMO the best looking hatchbacks in the market- no other car company comes close. I have dealt with three VW dealerships during my ownership: VW of Riverside; VW of Ontario; and VW of San Bernardino (Southern California). I purchased the car new at Riverside and I get most of my oil changes completed there and I also took it back when there was a minor recall. I've taken the car to Ontario for a few oil changes because they had specials on oil changes and I recently took the Rabbit to San Bernardino because they had a free oil change special for new customers via a radio station promotion. I saved $65. I never had a problem with any of the dealerships. Each time I took my car to any of the three dealerships I received my Rabbit clean because they washed it. Every experience has been stellar. Every one of the three dealerships had a clean waiting area with coffee, soda, snacks, cable TV, computers, etc. A few times while waiting for my car I've had all my questions answered about a car in the showroom. The sales guys and gals took the time to give me a 'tour' of a car knowing that I was there waiting on an oil change. 

Unfortunately, like I mentioned above, those two dealerships you dealt with were worthless. 

With that said I will most likely never again buy a VW. The TDI scandal pissed me off and I don't even have an affected car.  What VW did was nothing but fraud committed for the sole purpose of earning more profit in the ever increasing competitive automotive industry. VW is not the only car company that has cheated in this fashion. The list is long and it includes foreign and domestic manufacturers. VW will be hurt for a period of time but I think they will survive the lawsuits, expenses, lost business and the bruising of their brand. Many VW owners like myself will not forgive them but many more will and continue being loyal customers. Others down the road will become first time VW owners. The whole company will change for the better after being taught an expensive lesson. I think VW is mostly a good brand. A *small* group of people made a terrible mistake and some of these people may end up in prison. I really like my Rabbit and I won't trade it in but I will skip that 2016 Golf that I wanted so bad out of principle.  

Please report back here on any new situations. The VW community should know. Best of luck.

-Cheers. :wave:


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## GetMore (Jan 9, 2004)

I think the woman at Customer Care told you she believed you to get you off the line.
IF they actually DID piss on your filter you must have REALLY annoyed them. Just making them wash the car is not enough, it's less work to wash it than to change the filter, never mind the fact that the urine would have to dry, otherwise they would have a good chance of being caught.

I also question how in the world you could spend the winter without smelling it. The filter is in the flow path whether the A/C is on or the heat. I would expect you to get more of the smell when the heat is on, to be honest.

Also, as people have already mentioned, troubleshooting a smell in the HVAC system should first involve changing the filter. It is SOP.

You don't seem to be all that bad a person, from what I've read so far, but there must be something up for you to be having all this trouble. Hopefully not, but I wonder...


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## Donald-Reagan (Oct 11, 2015)

How can he get rid of it before his lawsuit is over...:laugh:

I love how someone told him what he didn't want to hear and his response was "your opinions doesn't matter"

He obviously is making such a huge deal out of all this to find another way to sue. If you acted this way to the techs at the dealer i understand it if they did piss on your filter.


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## cubedfreek (Apr 13, 2010)

TL;DR

You're pathetic. Deal with your issues instead of bitching about it. If you hate it, get rid of it. Simple as that.

Now, I'm off to my '01 Passat V6 4Mo and '16 Jetta Sport 5MT and not complain about anything.

I say good day.


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

*Ha!*

Hey, you last two: Didn't ask for and don't need your sympathy, approval or, for that matter, your advice. Happy playing patsy for VW? Well, good for you. (Who knows, maybe you work for the fraudsters.) At any rate, your opinions truly are of no consequence in the harsh light of reality, as evidenced by the links below. Ergo, blow it out your tailpipe. I'll deal with this matter as I see fit. Good day indeed.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/20/volkswagen-faces-pressure-in-us-to-buy-back-older-diesel-cars.html

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/18/new-...r-spending-cuts-and-regulatory-deadlines.html


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## T5 Dave (Nov 30, 2001)

Gosh, I hope we don't HAVE to sell the cars back to VW. My wife likes her '09 TDI Jetta too much. And there's nothing out there that can replace it. I'm sure we'll be able to keep my '15 Golf TDI, as that already has the AdBlue in it. 

One option I've been toying with if we have to give back the '09 is to get an EcoDiesel RAM 1500 with the turbodiesel V6 and let my wife use the Golf. Trouble is, she takes long trips going to comic conventions and needs more luggage space. Gaah. I really don't want to do this.


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

*In the clear.*

Hey, T5 Dave, it's still America and you should have no problem keeping and driving whatever you and your wife want. You're certainly good on your newer AdBlue model, and the '09 should be okay for a long time. At some point in the future, VW might (if forced) offer to buy it back, but it's not incumbent on you to accept that offer. No one is ever coming to take it out of your driveway; it's your decision. This stuff will be cycling through legal and regulatory jurisdictions for quite awhile, and it'll eventually be up to you. If they do engineer a fix, it will be your decision on whether to take it in and have performed whatever service/upgrade they offer you. It appears that the older diesels (like yours and mine) are going to be the most difficult, which is why they haven't come up with an easy and acceptable fix. The only potential problem you'd face in the future is if your state requires emissions testing and for some reason declines to renew your tags should you refuse to get it fixed under a future recall. Then it really would be decision time, but there are a lot of miles and what ifs between here and there. 

I'm sincerely glad you like your '09 and have had good luck with it, and that your wife enjoys driving it. The cars aren't without their merits, but in our case the overall ownership experience and quality defects with the car have soured us on VW. For a company to lose more than $30 billion in shareholder value and see issues exposed with 11 million cars, they had to do something pretty bad and have done it on purpose, both of which apply to VW. Plus now Audi and Porsche are caught up in the mire. This wasn't a few rogue engineers. While I do feel vindicated in seeing what we already knew about VW's lack of corporate ethics writ large, it's unfortunate that they're the kind of company to do something like this at all, and that so many innocent people have to pay the price for it.

Happy Motoring and good luck!


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## T5 Dave (Nov 30, 2001)

kcbobo said:


> Hey, T5 Dave, it's still America and you should have no problem keeping and driving whatever you and your wife want. You're certainly good on your newer AdBlue model, and the '09 should be okay for a long time. At some point in the future, VW might (if forced) offer to buy it back, but it's not incumbent on you to accept that offer. No one is ever coming to take it out of your driveway; it's your decision. This stuff will be cycling through legal and regulatory jurisdictions for quite awhile, and it'll eventually be up to you. If they do engineer a fix, it will be your decision on whether to take it in and have performed whatever service/upgrade they offer you. It appears that the older diesels (like yours and mine) are going to be the most difficult, which is why they haven't come up with an easy and acceptable fix. The only potential problem you'd face in the future is if your state requires emissions testing and for some reason declines to renew your tags should you refuse to get it fixed under a future recall. Then it really would be decision time, but there are a lot of miles and what ifs between here and there.
> 
> I'm sincerely glad you like your '09 and have had good luck with it, and that your wife enjoys driving it. The cars aren't without their merits, but in our case the overall ownership experience and quality defects with the car have soured us on VW. For a company to lose more than $30 billion in shareholder value and see issues exposed with 11 million cars, they had to do something pretty bad and have done it on purpose, both of which apply to VW. Plus now Audi and Porsche are caught up in the mire. This wasn't a few rogue engineers. While I do feel vindicated in seeing what we already knew about VW's lack of corporate ethics writ large, it's unfortunate that they're the kind of company to do something like this at all, and that so many innocent people have to pay the price for it.
> 
> Happy Motoring and good luck!


Unfortunately I'm in California, so they will most likely make me do the fix before I can re-register. If VW can't come up with a fix for the '09, we're stuck. The other option that could work is once they get the AdBlue solution fixed for the '15 and newer cars they can hopefully start selling new '16's and '17's by then. At that point they can take the keys for the '09 and give me a '16 Jetta TDI as an even swap. I'd go for that.


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## cubedfreek (Apr 13, 2010)

kcbobo said:


> Hey, you last two: Didn't ask for and don't need your sympathy, approval or, for that matter, your advice. Happy playing patsy for VW? Well, good for you. *(Who knows, maybe you work for the fraudsters.) *At any rate, your opinions truly are of no consequence in the harsh light of reality, as evidenced by the links below. Ergo, blow it out your tailpipe. I'll deal with this matter as I see fit. Good day indeed.
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/20/volkswagen-faces-pressure-in-us-to-buy-back-older-diesel-cars.html
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/18/new-...r-spending-cuts-and-regulatory-deadlines.html


Who outted me?!? I've been had! You know my true identity!


GTF off the internet, dude. You're wasting your obviously invaluable time, and all of our lives looking at your bull****.


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## stratclub (Feb 3, 2007)

Wow quite the adventure. I could really care less about a blue Tooth issue because I would not even use the feature if my car even had it.

However, I have not owned a car in the last 30+ years that leaked water to the inside while being washed.

Given that, my 2006 has been great. Of course in the last 5 Dubs I have owned, I have never had a reason to seek service from a Dub dealer.

To the OP, your experience is certainly a bitter pill. I can't even imagine how many shades of pissed off I would be in your situation.


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## turbocharged798 (Apr 13, 2010)

So the reality is that the car had two issues, leaking water and Bluetooth. I don't really consider the bluetooth a "problem" more like an annoyance. The leaking water was probably due to a seal not installed correctly, easy fix if the dealer had half a brain...

The dealer does sound like a piece of work which is why I recommend staying away as far from VW dealers as possible.


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

*At last.*

About time! Vindication was a long time in coming, but it's here in today's headlines. It took awhile, but justice is finally being done and this company is getting exactly what they deserve for mistreating and bullying customers, building shoddy products which they fail to stand behind, and willfully committing fraud. How sad that VW turned an enthusiastic, happy first-time customer into someone who feels guilty driving a pollution generator and regrets ever doing business with this crooked and morally bankrupt organization. It's going to be a happy day when I cash that check from VW, and if the buyback value is reasonable, I'll gladly hand them back the keys so they can scrap the car. For those of you who understand and have sympathized with my frustration, I thank you for your support and appreciate your kind words and thoughts. For those who have been less charitable about my plight with this car, I sincerely wish you continued good luck with your VWs. This is a company that had absolutely no problem with their employees vandalizing our car by stripping the clutch and urinating inside our cabin -- and their so-called "Customer Care" staff told me so. That arrogance and hubris on the part of Volkswagen has now resulted in the departures of both the CEO and the head of the US company, now topped with a record-setting $15 billion settlement. As I've been saying for years, this is exactly as it should be. Here's to a brighter future!


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

kcbobo said:


> ......How sad that VW turned an enthusiastic, happy first-time customer into someone who feels guilty driving a pollution generator and regrets ever doing business with this crooked and morally bankrupt organization......


First, if every TDI involved was run it's entire life 24/7, what would the increase in emissions in the USA be? Even measurable? And second, the Corporation did not do this, some lower level manager deep in the company did. Can you control everything your family does?


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## Ed52 (May 21, 2001)

kcbobo said:


> Here's to a brighter future!


Without you :wave:


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## quaudi (Jun 25, 2001)

Just read through this thread, adios bobo. Go to the love in at your local Subaru dealer, don't forget your dog, and purchase the car of your dreams with the buyback dollars. :wave:


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## [email protected] (Jan 23, 2009)

kcbobo said:


> About time! Vindication was a long time in coming, but it's here in today's headlines. It took awhile, but justice is finally being done and this company is getting exactly what they deserve for mistreating and bullying customers, building shoddy products which they fail to stand behind, and willfully committing fraud. How sad that VW turned an enthusiastic, happy first-time customer into someone who feels guilty driving a pollution generator and regrets ever doing business with this crooked and morally bankrupt organization. It's going to be a happy day when I cash that check from VW, and if the buyback value is reasonable, I'll gladly hand them back the keys so they can scrap the car. For those of you who understand and have sympathized with my frustration, I thank you for your support and appreciate your kind words and thoughts. For those who have been less charitable about my plight with this car, I sincerely wish you continued good luck with your VWs. This is a company that had absolutely no problem with their employees vandalizing our car by stripping the clutch and urinating inside our cabin -- and their so-called "Customer Care" staff told me so. That arrogance and hubris on the part of Volkswagen has now resulted in the departures of both the CEO and the head of the US company, now topped with a record-setting $15 billion settlement. As I've been saying for years, this is exactly as it should be. Here's to a brighter future!



Wow you must be a treat to have around the dinner table... in my 12 years at my VW dealership i have NEVER had an issue like yours and im not talking about cars with problems im talking about VW not fixing cars.. of the issues you listed ive seen them in and fixed no problem sounds like to me you have some poor dealerships around you as i have never had an issue getting a car right even if it did take several attempts..


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## terrantmike (Jun 30, 2016)

Jetta was the worse car ever made by VW.


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## cloud09 (Jan 14, 2011)

U guys r nuts. I'm 59 years old and my 2009 jetting TDI is the best performing car I've ever owned for the money. Not a single problem with it yet. We're going to probably keep it until the May'2018 deadline for VW to create the impossible fix. Will never buy another gas fueled car again.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## ChrisM (Sep 13, 1999)

kcbobo said:


> ...Bluetooth problems...


What problems are you having with your Bluetooth system? Maybe some of us on here can help or advise.


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## koidragon1980 (Jul 8, 2011)

ChrisM said:


> What problems are you having with your Bluetooth system? Maybe some of us on here can help or advise.


Not sure what kind of problems others have had, but the bluetooth is the only issue I've had in my 2015 Jetta SE so far, and I wouldn't even call it a real issue.

I think maybe twice within the past month, while driving, bluetooth connected, and streaming music, all sound cuts out, bluetooth functions stop working, and all I get is a high-pitched tone coming from the stereo/speakers. Bluetooth shows as still being connected, I can switch to other inputs without issue, but going back to the BT Media input is just noise. Turning the stereo off does not fix it. Both times, I had to shut the car off and restart to get things back to normal. I would assume this points to the BT Module deciding to have a temporary brain fart that gets corrected after shutting it down. Beyond that, everything works as it's supposed to. I still have some warranty left so I only hope that if the BT module decides to die that it will be sooner rather than later so that I can have it replaced under warranty.


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## ChrisM (Sep 13, 1999)

koidragon1980 said:


> Not sure what kind of problems others have had, but the bluetooth is the only issue I've had in my 2015 Jetta SE so far, and I wouldn't even call it a real issue.
> 
> I think maybe twice within the past month, while driving, bluetooth connected, and streaming music, all sound cuts out, bluetooth functions stop working, and all I get is a high-pitched tone coming from the stereo/speakers. Bluetooth shows as still being connected, I can switch to other inputs without issue, but going back to the BT Media input is just noise. Turning the stereo off does not fix it. Both times, I had to shut the car off and restart to get things back to normal. I would assume this points to the BT Module deciding to have a temporary brain fart that gets corrected after shutting it down. Beyond that, everything works as it's supposed to. I still have some warranty left so I only hope that if the BT module decides to die that it will be sooner rather than later so that I can have it replaced under warranty.


I don't have too much experience with the latest cars, but I have a couple of thoughts. First, if your car has CarNet, I think your BT module is actually part of the MDI module. The CarNet module occupies the space under the RF seat where the BT module used to go. I only have experience with one car with this set-up and I wasn't too impressed with the voice-prompt quality (very robotic sounding) and the audio quality. Maybe your module needs an update or replacement.

When you shut off the radio with the power button, the radio is actually still on. The radio doesn't reset/reboot until you turn the car off, as you have found out. If the streaming signal gets corrupted again, try shutting off the BT on the phone and then turning it back on. That should reset the connection.


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## mcseforsale (Jun 5, 2011)

I've also notices on some bluetooth devices with an iPhone, some ring tones/sounds cause this issue. This happens however, on a home speaker system, not in my CC. But it sounds like the same thing. My android doesn't have this issue.

AJ




ChrisM said:


> I don't have too much experience with the latest cars, but I have a couple of thoughts. First, if your car has CarNet, I think your BT module is actually part of the MDI module. The CarNet module occupies the space under the RF seat where the BT module used to go. I only have experience with one car with this set-up and I wasn't too impressed with the voice-prompt quality (very robotic sounding) and the audio quality. Maybe your module needs an update or replacement.
> 
> When you shut off the radio with the power button, the radio is actually still on. The radio doesn't reset/reboot until you turn the car off, as you have found out. If the streaming signal gets corrupted again, try shutting off the BT on the phone and then turning it back on. That should reset the connection.


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## kcbobo (Mar 15, 2015)

*It's about time.*

$4.3 Billion is a record fine and a lot of money for any company, even a criminal enterprise like Volkswagen. Fraud: Guilty. Conspiracy: Guilty. Obstruction of Justice: Guilty. And one of their executives, Oliver Schmidt, sits in a Michigan jail, denied bail, awaiting his trial next year, with others under indictment. Justice is indeed served. 

$25 Billion is a hefty chunk of cash to buy back their cheater cars, pay fines and settle lawsuits.

Long before the September 2015 announcement of their diesel cheat with defeat devices, I was here saying that this company is comprised of crooks and cheaters, that their cars are an engineering fraud which they refuse to stand behind even under warranty or after class-action settlements -- and the facts have vindicated my position. 

The CEO of the global company...long ago resigned amid a swirl of scandal. CEO of the US company...the same fate. Sure, they're the biggest in the world, neck-and-neck with Toyota. No denying their "success" in terms of profitability and volume of cars sold. Lucky for them they have Porsche and Audi and a few other brands to keep them afloat. Until VW faces up to its problems, though, and makes real changes in leadership and how this wretched company operates, it will be an also-ran in quality and customer satisfaction. 

I look forward to returning our miserable little subpar VW to the dealer, getting a check and never looking back. Dealing wth them has been unpleasant but also instructive. With so many other good, reliable auto manufacturers and dealer networks out there, why waste any more time or negative energy on VW?

To those who are loyal to this brand, good luck. 

And to those of us who have experienced the darker side of VW, plus the few hundred thousand people who already have agreed to beautify America's highways just a bit by getting rid of this German junk, here's to a bright automotive future! 

Cheers.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

I am sure VW will not have one sleepless night without morons like you as a customer.


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## RobMarkToo (Apr 21, 2012)

I find your story hard to believe and your attitude, and the fact that you felt the need to update this thread a year later, pompous as hell. Now I'm off to enjoy my completely reliable terribly engineered piece of junk that handles and accelerates very enjoyably.


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