# Nozzle Placement with HPA AWC



## SloppyDingo (May 16, 2017)

I purchased an HPA FT-470 for my MK4 R32 which comes with their air to water intercooler setup. The heat exchanger is integrated with a short runner intake manifold. With this system, the intake and boost track is relatively short, going directly from the intake to the compressor then from the compressor to the intake manifold/heat exchanger and on to the combustion chamber.

I have been toying around with the idea of adding a water/meth setup to my car to augment the AWIC (for cooling) and for the possibility of being able to run higher boost on 93 octane. In my research, I have found that the best performance from these systems seems to come from a dual nozzle setup but everything I have read also suggests placing the high flow nozzle a significant distance away from the combustion chamber. These examples are always using a traditional air to air intercooler setup where there is a decent amount of pipe between the intercooler and the combustion chamber. With my setup, would the distance from just after the mass air flow sensor (bolted directly to the air filter) be a good enough distance away from the combustion chamber? What about the fact that the nozzle would be pre-turbo and pre electronic throttle body, is this distance far enough for the water to evaporate and not cause damage to the turbine and or throttle body? Or should I just forget it and go with a single nozzle setup?

I'm just learning about water/meth setups so sorry if I'm way off base here... Just let me know if I'm being a dumb a$$. Thanks.


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## MiltDoggie (Jun 30, 2020)

Late reply Lol... You're not being a dumbass! WMI can be quite tricky. I for one was a bit ''scared'' and ''nervous''.

Mmmmm, I assume you have a boosted MK4 R32 VR6?

For dual nozzle placement you can place one directly after the intercooling and one before the throttle body. I placed my nozzle just about 10cm before the throttle body. 
WMI doesn't damage the Throttle body. I ran different mixes of Water/Meth, on the contrary, it cleaned the Throttle Body.

The further away the nozzle from the combustion chamber = More Cooling
The closer the nozzle from the combustion chamber = More Octane boost of the Methanol

I have seen people run a nozzle in the intercooler piping and individual nozzles on each individual intake runners. Some people run a dual nozzle setup with 1 in the intercooler piping and nozzle 2 inbetween the throttle body using a throttle body spacer.

Placing the nozzles pre-turbo is debatable. Some people say it's useless as the air just gets hot again because of turbo and some don't.
But nonetheless, what the majority of the people do is, with a dual nozzle setup, is 1 nozzle right after intercooler and 1 nozzle just before the throttle body. 

With placement, try to place them in a straight section of the piping. Better for mist dispersion, or so I heard.

Thread is 5 months old so you probably have it all setup but decided to respond anyway lol


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

MiltDoggie said:


> The further away the nozzle from the combustion chamber = More Cooling
> The closer the nozzle from the combustion chamber = More Octane boost of the Methanol


Is there any science to back that up? Closer to the combustion changer increases octane? Sounds like fake news to me but I'm will to listen to your reasoning.


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## MiltDoggie (Jun 30, 2020)

Butcher said:


> Is there any science to back that up? Closer to the combustion changer increases octane? Sounds like fake news to me but I'm will to listen to your reasoning.


I cannot link any scientific links to back up that statement. It's just something that I've read on the internet from multiple sites and people.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

That is what I suspect. All too often one person's opinion is somehow turned to fact. I'm not trying to start an argument, but I question everything I read. I like what water can do to the combustion process and I do understand that it's not really prime time [yes, BMW/Bosch has got it on at least one of their engines] but all too often, we just do not have the tools to prove one way or another what is best.


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## MiltDoggie (Jun 30, 2020)

Mmmmm, you're correct. There isn't a lot of scientific data with WMI. WMI isn't a hot topic in the aftermarket scene. I know guys with 500hp Evo's and they're like; ''huh? Water/Meth? What's that?''


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