# 0W-40 or 5W-40?



## Redline4200 (Jan 7, 2006)

I just topped off my oil with some Mobil 1 0W-40 synthetic oil. My friend said thats better to use during winter, and that I should be using 5W-40 oil now that its hotter out. Is this true?


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: 0W-40 or 5W-40? (Redline4200)*

oil war about to begin
short accurate answer is that your friend is wrong... 0W40 is just fine for all-year use


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: 0W-40 or 5W-40? (Redline4200)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Redline4200* »_I just topped off my oil with some Mobil 1 0W-40 synthetic oil. My friend said thats better to use during winter, and that I should be using 5W-40 oil now that its hotter out. Is this true?

Back in the day he'd be correct. But, with todays synthetic oils 0W-40 is fine year round.


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2001)

*Re: 0W-40 or 5W-40? (thread)*

Exactly what has been posted above... Basically anything that is VW502.00 Approved (it will say on the bottle if it is)...
Two of the popular oils that meet this (and are year round safe):
Motul 8100 E-Tech 0W-40
Mobil 1 0W-40


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: 0W-40 or 5W-40? (Redline4200)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Redline4200* »_I just topped off my oil with some Mobil 1 0W-40 synthetic oil. My friend said thats better to use during winter, and that I should be using 5W-40 oil now that its hotter out. Is this true?

I have made some very detailed posts of how oil weights work but the search is down right now and I cannot find them. Basically the ONLY difference between 5w-40 and 0w-40 is thethickness when cold. 0w-40 will be thinner when cold than 5w-40, but they will both be the same thickness at operating temp.


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## wildhare (Feb 15, 2002)

Amsoil VW Approved European 5w40 is a great oil!
Amsoil has a gurantee and no one esle can challenge that they are any better in quality or protection. 
Their oil was designed for long drain intervals and have superior protection.
Don't believe, please see for yourself: http://www.amsoil.com/


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (wildhare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wildhare* »_Amsoil VW Approved European 5w40 is a great oil!
Amsoil has a gurantee and no one esle can challenge that they are any better in quality or protection. 
Their oil was designed for long drain intervals and have superior protection.
Don't believe, please see for yourself: http://www.amsoil.com/

Amsoil is actually not approved. See the VW oil bulletin. Unfortunately Amsoil is very carefull about their wording to avoid legal difficulites but what the clami is "has been reformulated for" and "is formulated to surpass" the specifications. Unfortunately they have never submitted to testing for those spcifications and are carefull not to say they meet them. This is per the last direct email I had with them. They are correctly not listed on the VW approved oil list. It could be a great oil but it is not going to meet warranty requirements. It's hard to dicipher sometimes the vague wording companies use but to give an example of an approved oil it states "meets key industry and car builder specifications for" and it lists the standards. Hope that helps. cheers! mike


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## allcool (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re: 0W-40 or 5W-40? (PhReE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhReE* »_I have made some very detailed posts of how oil weights work but the search is down right now and I cannot find them. Basically the ONLY difference between 5w-40 and 0w-40 is thethickness when cold. 0w-40 will be thinner when cold than 5w-40, but they will both be the same thickness at operating temp.

Misinformation....old school dino oil thinking
0w-40 oil starts life with a 0w base stock
5w-40 starts out with a 5w base stock
From here on things get complicated for old school dino oil thinkers.
This is a controversial topic since a lot is changing with synthetic oil and how it is rated.
Mobil1 0w-40 is the oil I have information on from an expert source…a Mobil 1 oil engineer.
It is a misconception to think Mobil 1 0w-40 changes 'thickness'. That’s old school dino oil thinking. I have had a hard time getting the ‘oil gets thicker when it gets hot’ idea out of my head. VI is from the formulation of the base stock oil, 0-40 does not get thicker, and it meets or beats all specs for 40wt oil being thin as piss. It was explained to me that oil does not have to have a certain viscosity anymore to be classified as meeting specs, tests and regulations for a 40 'weight' oil.
Mobil 1 0w-40 meets and beats all the specifications and test criteria for a 0 weight AND a 40 weight oil, without getting 'thicker or thinner'. Why add lots of thickening additives if your oil is good enough to pass all the tests/specs for 40weight oil and still be as thin as skunk piss for fast oil delivery.
You get the fast oil delivery to all bearings on cold or hot starts of thin oil and have the protection specs of 40 weight oil at WOT. How do you beat that? Mobil 1 0w-40 pours like water and carries bearing loads better than most all 40 weight oils. Go to the Mobil 1 web site, check the specs.
This is why Mobil 1 0-40 comes in all new Porsche, amg MB, and Corvettes just to name a few.
Vw specs 502.00/505.00/503.01 along with BMW, Mercedes, GM, Porsche and GM diesel are much harder specs to meet than the API specs and mobil1 0w-40 does meet or surpass all of these specs… thin as piss.
Ester synthetic oil is probably better than the PAO oils like Mobil 1, amsoil, etc. But PAO oils are plenty good enough to do the job.
jmho


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## wildhare (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_
Amsoil is actually not approved. See the VW oil bulletin. Unfortunately Amsoil is very carefull about their wording to avoid legal difficulites but what the clami is "has been reformulated for" and "is formulated to surpass" the specifications. Unfortunately they have never submitted to testing for those spcifications and are carefull not to say they meet them. This is per the last direct email I had with them. They are correctly not listed on the VW approved oil list. It could be a great oil but it is not going to meet warranty requirements. It's hard to dicipher sometimes the vague wording companies use but to give an example of an approved oil it states "meets key industry and car builder specifications for" and it lists the standards. Hope that helps. cheers! mike

You are dead wrong sir!! READ!
http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/afl.aspx

APPLICATION
AMSOIL Synthetic European Car Formula is formulated to surpass the most demanding European specifications. It is recommended for European and North American gasoline or diesel vehicles requiring any of the following worldwide specifications:
API SM/CF
ACEA C3-04
ACEA A3/B3-04
ACEA A3/B4-04
BMW LL-04
Mercedes Benz 229.31, 229.51
Porsche
Saab
Volvo
VW 502.00, 505.00, 505.01 <<<<<<<<<<
MS-10725
Says right on the bottle too:








Can't make that claim unless it's been approved.
Cheers!



_Modified by wildhare at 5:49 AM 4-20-2006_


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (wildhare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wildhare* »_You are dead wrong sir!! READ!
http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/afl.aspx

APPLICATION
AMSOIL Synthetic European Car Formula is formulated to surpass the most demanding European specifications. It is recommended for European and North American gasoline or diesel vehicles requiring any of the following worldwide specifications:
API SM/CF
ACEA C3-04
ACEA A3/B3-04
ACEA A3/B4-04
BMW LL-04
Mercedes Benz 229.31, 229.51
Porsche
Saab
Volvo
VW 502.00, 505.00, 505.01 <<<<<<<<<<
MS-10725
Says right on the bottle too:








Can't make that claim unless it's been approved.
Cheers!

_Modified by wildhare at 5:49 AM 4-20-2006_
'

You have to look at the wording here. I agree it's confusing. Notice what they say. They say it "is forumulated to surpasss the requirements of" and that "it is recommended for". No where do they state it meets the requirements. Look for words like "meets key industry and car builder specifications for" on an approved oil. Check the VW pdf. It's not on there. Here's a linky...
http://forums.audiworld.com/a3/msgs/42403.phtml
http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/2478964.phtml
Could be a great oil. Not bashing it at all, but it's not on the approved oil list because they don't submit to licensing for the standards. The advertising is a bit misleading. cheers! mike


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

wildhare: mike (bhvrdr) is correct. Amsoil doesn't actually have any of the certifications that it claims to meet. Plus, it has been argued that they can't possibly hold that many certifications because often having one cert, requires a certain additive level, which another certification requires less of. 
if you want more info, STFA BITOG and you'll find plenty of threads regarding amsoil's sketchy labeling and claims.
Dave


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## wildhare (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*

First of all you are wrong. Call Amsoil and VWOA and they will share with you and sort of info and documents that you require that it is approved. 
Your interpretation is way off, it has been approved by VOA and the other mentioned companies. 
If it did not, they would be liable for litigation! 
Spend some time and call, email and verify.
Don't misinterpet!
"Look at the dating on your Audiworld links"... earlier in the year. It has since been approved. Call verify, get more info then post!


_Modified by wildhare at 4:32 PM 4-20-2006_


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (wildhare)*

Here is the Amsoil Tech line:
715-392-7101
I spoke with Jim and the tech supervisor Daniel Yue at Amsoil today 11:25am and indeed they have not submitted to the testing. He states they "meet the standards" from their own testing but he stated, "You have to pay to get on those approved oil lists and we don't do that." 
Feel free to call and check. I posted a link in my orginal post about this from another member who also called. This has all been well documented and I agree it's very misleading. Enough to have mislead people to believing they are certified. Search for the approved oil list and give VOA a call. You'll see it is NOT on the list and NOT approved.
cheers! mike


_Modified by bhvrdr at 8:36 AM 4-20-2006_


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## Electron Man (Sep 21, 1999)

*Re: 0W-40 or 5W-40? (Redline4200)*

I guess the main difference between 0W and 5W is the amount of fuel used during engine warm-up...something on the order of a gallon in 1000 starts if using the 0W oil in below freezing temps.


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## wildhare (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*

So are you saying that using Amsoil will void the warranty ?


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: 0W-40 or 5W-40? (allcool)*


_Quote, originally posted by *allcool* »_
Misinformation....old school dino oil thinking
0w-40 oil starts life with a 0w base stock
5w-40 starts out with a 5w base stock
From here on things get complicated for old school dino oil thinkers.
This is a controversial topic since a lot is changing with synthetic oil and how it is rated.
Mobil1 0w-40 is the oil I have information on from an expert source…a Mobil 1 oil engineer.
It is a misconception to think Mobil 1 0w-40 changes 'thickness'. That’s old school dino oil thinking. I have had a hard time getting the ‘oil gets thicker when it gets hot’ idea out of my head. VI is from the formulation of the base stock oil, 0-40 does not get thicker, and it meets or beats all specs for 40wt oil being thin as piss. It was explained to me that oil does not have to have a certain viscosity anymore to be classified as meeting specs, tests and regulations for a 40 'weight' oil.
Mobil 1 0w-40 meets and beats all the specifications and test criteria for a 0 weight AND a 40 weight oil, without getting 'thicker or thinner'. Why add lots of thickening additives if your oil is good enough to pass all the tests/specs for 40weight oil and still be as thin as skunk piss for fast oil delivery.
You get the fast oil delivery to all bearings on cold or hot starts of thin oil and have the protection specs of 40 weight oil at WOT. How do you beat that? Mobil 1 0w-40 pours like water and carries bearing loads better than most all 40 weight oils. Go to the Mobil 1 web site, check the specs.
This is why Mobil 1 0-40 comes in all new Porsche, amg MB, and Corvettes just to name a few.
Vw specs 502.00/505.00/503.01 along with BMW, Mercedes, GM, Porsche and GM diesel are much harder specs to meet than the API specs and mobil1 0w-40 does meet or surpass all of these specs… thin as piss.
Ester synthetic oil is probably better than the PAO oils like Mobil 1, amsoil, etc. But PAO oils are plenty good enough to do the job.
jmho


It doesnt get thicker when its hot, it gets thinner of course, but it doesnt thin out AS MUCH as a straight weight oil. The first number is the cold temperature weight and the second number is the operating temperature weight. 5w-40 just means it is the thickness of a 5w oil when cold (thick as cold 5w oil) and it is as thick as hot 40w oil when hot (while 40w is a thicker grade than 5w it is still thinner at this point because its hotter, but it is thicker than 5w oil when hot) so it doesnt CHANGE viscosity as much as straight weight oil. It's not "the old way of thinking" thats just how oil weight grades work.


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## allcool (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re: (crew217)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew217* »_wildhare: mike (bhvrdr) is correct. Amsoil doesn't actually have any of the certifications that it claims to meet. Plus, it has been argued that they can't possibly hold that many certifications because often having one cert, requires a certain additive level, which another certification requires less of. 
if you want more info, STFA BITOG and you'll find plenty of threads regarding amsoil's sketchy labeling and claims.
Dave

You are correct Dave/ bhvdr
Like in my above post, the way synthetics are tested and labeled will be changing in the years to come. Dino oil certification methods don't always apply to synthetics.
A semi synthetic blend that is VW approved or Amsoil, I think Amsoil fully synthetic would be a much better option than the approved blend oils. What would you rather have in your engine, dino syn blend or full syn Amsoil?
Keep in mind APR or GIAC is not in the 'approved' VW list either.


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (wildhare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wildhare* »_So are you saying that using Amsoil will void the warranty ?

The Amsoil does not meet the VW warranty requirements. VW has a list of oils that meet the requirements. VW requires the oil be certified to at least 502, not that the oil's own manufacturer "recommend" it for that application. cheers! Mike


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## wildhare (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*

You stil have not answered my question, Mike. If I run Amsoil will it void my warranty?


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (wildhare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wildhare* »_You stil have not answered my question, Mike. If I run Amsoil will it void my warranty?

That is because acutally getting your warranty voided will depend on the situation and dealership. But, yes you are not within guidelines. You may choose ANY oil that meets the 502 certification. If you don't use an approved oil, you are not in compliance and are certainly subject to them simply not paying for the repair. Whether your regional person would enforces this is always an unknown and likely variable from region to region. You definitely would NOT be covered under the VW sludge warranty in effect and wouldnt be covered in the event of oil sludge related issues should they occur on the 2.0T. cheers! Mike


_Modified by bhvrdr at 11:03 AM 4-20-2006_


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## feuerdog (Feb 11, 2002)

*Re: (wildhare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wildhare* »_You still have not answered my question, Mike. If I run Amsoil will it void my warranty?

Technically, maybe. 
If it comes down to a warranty claim where the customer provided his own non-certified oil it may or may not be recorded as such, and/or covered depending on the specific claim and parts/material failure. However, since it IS a toss-up as to how it is claimed, if the adjuster/service manager/tech diagnosis etc. didn't approve covering the claim then no, it would void the warranty *coverage* for the incorrect lubrication and/or it related system/parts.
I deal with warranty claims for 1.8t oil sludge bulletins on an almost daily basis, and there is a FINE line in the determination of a covered engine or not. If there is a questionable factor, the claim will bounce.
I'll continue to use my Mobil 1 0w-40 for another 4 years.


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## wildhare (Feb 15, 2002)

Well you didn't directly answer my question.
So I will elaborate for you (in simple terms, no they can't void your warranty per the Magnuson-Moss Act). 
You do have to conform to their viscosity requirements. However, they can not dictate the oil manufacture you MUST utilize.
So, the bottom line is no they can NOT void your warranty if you use the viscosity they require. Another words... the correct viscosity Amsoil will NOT void your warranty.


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## wildhare (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: (wildhare)*

Warranties and the Magnuson-Moss Act
You have a customer who is interested in AMSOIL motor oil, but he's concerned that using a synthetic oil or extending his oil drain interval will void his warranty.
Your customer has no need for concern. Congress in 1975 enacted the federal Magnuson-Moss Act to regulate written consumer product warranties. An examination of the law reveals warranties remain intact when AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants are used.
The law was meant to give consumers detailed information about warranty coverage before they buy.
Congress charged the Federal Trade Commission with creation of the specifics of the law.
The FTC set down three rules under the Act: the Disclosure Rule, the Pre-Sale Availability Rule and the Dispute Resolution Rule.
Those rules require warrantors to title their written warranty as either full or limited, provide a single, clear and easy-to-read document that spells out certain information about coverage and ensure that warranties are available where the products are sold so that consumers can read them before buying.
In passing the Act, Congress meant to give consumers access to warranty information, let consumers comparison shop for warranties, encourage warranty competition and promote timely and complete performance of warranty obligations.
While the Magnuson-Moss Act does not require manufacturers to provide a written warranty, it provides specific rules when one is provided. Among those provisions, FTC regulations state: (c) No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. (15 U.S.C.2302(C))
That means your warranty stands when you use AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants.
Vehicle manufacturers recommend lubricants according to their viscosity grade and service classification. Any oil, whether its conventional petroleum motor oil or synthetic, meeting the correct viscosity grade, 5W-30 for example, and the current API and ILSAC North American service classifications may be used without affecting warranty coverage. AMSOIL motor oils are recommended for use in applications requiring these specifications. For more information on API licensing, go to Ask AMSOIL in the Dealer Zone.
Furthermore, the practice of extending oil drain intervals does not void warranties. Original equipment manufacturers pay or deny warranty claims based on the findings of failure analysis. To affect the vehicle warranty, the lubricant must be directly responsible for the failure. If the oil didn't cause the problem the warranty cannot be voided, regardless of brand or length of time in use.
Synthetic motor oil was introduced to the automotive public in 1972 by AMSOIL, INC., with the world's first API rated synthetic motor oil specially formulated for long service and superior performance and protection to that of conventional oils.
Nearly 30 years ago, AMSOIL synthetics represented a vision of the future and technology ahead of their time. Since then, every major engine oil manufacturer has introduced synthetic oils of their own. To be sure, many original equipment manufacturers would like you to believe you can only use their products. However, it s a violation of the consumer protections set forth in the Magnuson-Moss Act, unless they re willing to provide you those products free of charge.
AMSOIL offers a warranty that covers the cost of repair or replacement of a proven mechanically sound engine damaged as a result of using AMSOIL synthetic motor oil. However, it has never happened. Thirty years of experience proves AMSOIL can be installed in any vehicle with complete confidence.
AMSOIL further backs its products with action when a Dealer or customer reports being told their warranty is voided if they use synthetics.
If you have heard from any member of a business that the use of AMSOIL Motor Oil or the practice of extending drain intervals will void warranties, send AMSOIL all the details including the name of the business, business owner or manager and the individual making the claims, in a signed and dated letter. Send the letter to the Technical Services Department at corporate headquarters and an AMSOIL representative will send them a letter explaining the facts.
Access to the complete Magnuson-Moss Act is available on the Internet by key words Magnuson-Moss Act or Federal Trade Commission.


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## feuerdog (Feb 11, 2002)

Actually they can:

_Quote »_
Engine Oil, Oil Quality Standard
17-05-05
All Audi 2005, 2006 Model Year engines must
always use engine oil that expressly conforms
to Audi Oil Quality Standard VW 502 00 (with
viscosities of SAE 5W-40, 5W-30, 0W-40).



VW 502 00 Approved oils as of July 26, 2005 Bulletin 17-05-02

_Quote »_
Audi/VW part number ZVW 352 540 S SAE 5W40
Addinol Addinol Super light MV0546 SAE 5W40
Addinol Addinol Super power MV 0537 SAE 5W30
Adnoc Adnoc Image SAE 5W40
Agip Agip Sint Evolution SAE 5W40
Agip Agip Synthetic PC SAE 5W40
Agip Agip Tecsint SAE 5W30
Agip Agip Tecsint SL SAE 5W40
AMAG Gamaparts Gold Synt SAE 5W40
Antar Antar Excellia LDX SAE 5W40
AnYe Lubricating Oil AnYe 1 SAE 5W40
Aral Aral HighTronic SAE 5W40
Aral Aral SuperTronic SAE 0W40
Autol Autol Carrera SAE 5W40
Bardahl Bardahl XTC 100% Synthetic Motor Oil SAE 5W40
Beijing Tongyi Petroleum Xin Gai Nian SAE 5W40
BP BP Euro Germany SAE 5W40
BP BP Euro Plus SAE 5W40
BP BP Euro Spirit SAE 5W40
BP BP Visco 5000 SAE 5W40
BP BP Visco Sport SAE 0W40
Bucher AG Motorex Xperience FSX SAE 5W40
Bucher AG Select SPX SAE 5W40
Bucher AG Xperience FSX SAE 0W40
Carat Carat adSyntOil SAE 5W40
Carl Bechem Hessol ADT Plus SAE 5W40
Carl Bechem Staroil Synergie Alpha SAE 5W40
Cartechnic Cartechnic Motorenöl SAE 5W40
Castrol Castrol GTX 7 Dynatec SAE 5W40
Castrol Castrol Performance SAE 5W40
Castrol Castrol Syntec SAE 5W40
Castrol Castrol TXT Softec SAE 5W40
Cepsa Cepsa Star Mega Synthetic SAE 5W40
Conoco Syncon High Performance Synthetic Engine Oil SAE 5W40
Coparts Carl Motorenöl Power SAE 5W40
Cyclon Hellas Cyclon F1 Racing SAE 5W40
De Oliebron Tor Hypersynth SAE 5W40
Dongying Xinyi Xin Yi 1 SAE 5W40
Duckhams Duckhams Q Fully Synthetic SAE 5W40
Elf Elf Excellium LDX SAE 5W40
ENOC ENOC Protec Xtreme SAE 5W40
Esso Esso Megatron SAE 5W40
Esso Esso Ultron SAE 5W40
Esso Esso Ultron SL SAE 5W40
Esso Motor Oil Plus SAE 5W40
Eurol Eurol Super Lite 5W40 SL/CF SAE 5W40
FAWSihuan Petrofer Huan Ya SAE 5W40
Feu Vert Feu Vert 100% Synthese SAE 5W40
Fina Fina First SAE 5W40
Fina Fina Motortronic RS SAE 5W40
FL Selenia Pulsar S.D. SAE 5W40
FL Selenia Selenia WR SAE 5W40
Fortum Neste City Pro SAE 0W40
Fortum Neste City Pro SAE 5W40
Fuchs Fuchs TITAN Supersyn SAE 5W40
Fuchs Titan Formel MC SAE 5W40
Galp energia Galp Formula 1 Plus SAE 5W40
Galp energia Galp Formula TD Plus SAE 5W40
Ginouves York 848 SAE 5W40
Goldhand Budget Motorenöl vollsynthetisch SAE 5W40
Gulf Gulf Formula S SAE 5W40
Gulf Oil Gulf Formula G SAE 5W40
Huiles Labo Labo Carat SAE 5W40
Igol Igol Symbol Ceramic SAE 5W40
Igol Igol Symbol Ceramic SAE 5W30
Igol Process Compact P SAE 5W30
INA INA Futura MB SAE 5W30
Ina Ina Millennium SAE 5W40
Kendall Motor Oil Kendall GT1 Full Synthetic Motor Oil SAE 5W40
Kuttenkeuler Motorenöl STronic SAE 5W40
Liqui Moly Liqui Moly Leichtlauf HC 7 SAE 5W40
Liqui Moly Liqui Moly Longtime High Tech SAE 5W30
Liqui Moly Liqui Moly Profi Synthoil SAE 5W40
Liqui Moly Liqui Moly Synthoil High Tech SAE 5W40
Lotos Lotos Dynamic SAE 0W40
Lotos Lotos Economic SAE 5W30
Lotos Lotos Syntetic SL/SJ/CF/CD SAE 5W40
Lotos Lotos Traffic SAE 5W40
Lukoil Lukoil LUX SAE 5W40
Meguin EMARAT Super Synth SAE 5W40
Meguin megol Motorenoel New Generation SAE 5W30
Meguin megol Motorenoel Super Leichtlauf SAE 5W40
Meguin Motorenoel Low Emission SAE 5W40
Meguin Motorenoel Ultra Performance Longlife SAE 5W40
Mitan Alpine RSL vollsynth. SAE 0W40
Mobil Mobil 1 SAE 0W40
Mobil Mobil 1 SAE 5W40
Mobil Mobil Special X SAE 5W40
Mobil Mobil Synt S SAE 5W40
Mobil Mobil Syst S SAE 5W40
Mogul Mogul Forte Racing Pro SAE 5W40
MOL MOL Dynamic Star SAE 5W40
Morris Multilife Synthetic SAE 5W40
Motul Motul 6100 Xcess SAE 5W40
Motul Motul 8100 Etech SAE 0W40
Motul Motul 8100 Xcess SAE 5W40
Motul Motul Synergie SAE 5W40
Motul Motul Synergie Ester + SAE 0W40
MRD Motor Gold Supertec SAE 5W40
Nocc Valar Gema XLL 053 SAE 5W30
Northland Synergy Synthetic EuroSyn SAE 5W40
OelBrack Midland Avanza SAE 5W40
OelBrack Midland Synqron SAE 5W30
OelBrack M idland Synqron SAE 5W40
Oest Oest ETA Synthetik SAE 5W40
Oktanoil Mega Full SAE 5W40
Ölwerke Julius Schindler Econo Veritas XLHC SAE 5W40
OMV OMV full syn SAE 0W40
OMV OMV full syn plus SAE 5W30
Panolin Panolin Indy SV SAE 5W40
Paramo Mogul Racing Pro SAE 5W40
Pennzoil Pennzoil Synthetic European Formula SAE 5W40
Pennzoil Pennzoil European Formula Ultra SAE 5W30
Pennzoil Pennzoil Synthetic European Formula Ultra SAE 5W30
Pentosin Motorenoel Pento High Performance SAE 5W40
Pentosin Pentosynth SAE 5W40
Petrobras Lubrax Sintético SAE 5W40
Petrol Ofisi PO Ultra SAE 5W40
Petronas Petronas Syntium 3000 SAE 5W40
Petronas Petronas Syntium 3000 LL SAE 5W30
Petronas Petronas Syntium 3000 S SAE 5W40
Petronas Petronas Syntium 5000 FS SAE 0W40
Petronas Petronas Syntium 900 SAE 5W40
PetroVRC Kunlun HTPC SAE 5W40
Poweroil HighTechSchmierstoffe HD 5W40 SL CF Topsynth SAE 5W40
Poweroil HighTechSchmierstoffe HD SAE 0W40
ProfiTech ProfiCar Synth Tech XT SAE 5W40
Protech MeisterÖlLeichtlauföl SAE 5W40
Quaker State Quaker State European Formula Ultra SAE 5W30
Quaker State Quaker State Full Synthetic European Formula SAE 5W40
Quaker State Quaker State Full synthetic European Formula Ultra SAE 5W30
Rafinerija Modrica Optima Magnum Plus SAE 0W40
Ravensberger Schmierstoffvertrieb Ravenol Hydrocrack Synth. HCS SAE 5W40
Ravensberger Schmierstoffvertrieb Ravenol VSI SAE 5W40
Repsol Repsol Elaion Full Performance SAE 5W40
Repsol Repsol Elite Competición SAE 5W40
Repsol Repsol Elite Cosmos SAE 0W40
Rowe Hightec Synth RS 5W40 i SAE 5W40
Rowe Hightec SyntHC 5W40 i SAE 5W40
SCT Mannol Extreme SAE 5W40
SeventySix Lubricants 76 Pure Synthetic Motor Oil SAE 5W40
Shanghai Oil Refinery HAIPAI 2293 SAE 5W40
Shanghai Tempo Tempo 80001A SAE 5W40
Shell Formula Shell Ultra AB SAE 5W30
Shell Sehll Helix Ultra AM SAE 5W40
Shell Shell Helix Plus SAE 5W30
Shell Shell Helix Plus SAE 5W40
Shell Shell Helix Plus S SAE 5W30
Shell Shell Helix Plus S SAE 5W40
Shell Shell Helix Premium SAE 5W40
Shell Shell Helix Ultra SAE 5W40
Shell Shell Helix Ultra AB SAE 5W30
Shell Shell Helix Ultra AL SAE 5W30
Shell Shell SL 0914 SAE 5W40
Sinopec Polar Star II SAE 5W40
SK Corporation ZIC XQ SAE 5W40
Slovnaft Madit Ultra SAE 5W30
Smessindo Liqtro Enduro Ultra SAE 5W40
SpectrAuto Polarm SAE 0W40
SRS Schmierstoff Vertrieb Wintershall Primalub topsynth SAE 5W40
SRS Schmierstoff Vertrieb Wintershall ViVA 1 ecosynth SAE 0W40
SRS Schmierstoff Vertrieb Wintershall VIVA 1 Longlife SAE 5W30
SRS Schmierstoff Vertrieb Wintershall ViVA 1 topsynth SAE 5W40
SRS Schmierstoff Vertrieb Wintershall ViVA 1 topsynth alpha SAE 5W30
SRS Schmierstoff Vertrieb Wintershall ViVA 1 topsynth alpha LA SAE 5W30
Startol SyntXL SAE 5W40
Statoil LazerWay SAE 5W40
Statoil Statoil GT S SAE 5W40
Statoil Statoil LazerWay SAE 5W40
Statoil Statoil Pro Synthetic SAE 5W40
SWD swd Primus HDC SAE 5W40
Teboil Teboil Gold SAE 5W40
Texaco Havoline Ultra SAE 5W40
Texaco Havoline Ultra SAE 5W40
Texaco Texaco Havoline Ultra BM SAE 5W30
Top Oil Top Evolution SAE 5W40
Total Total Activa 9000 SAE 5W40
Total Total Quartz 9000 SAE 5W40
Unicorn Unicorn Ultra Synt SAE 5W40
Unil Opal Opaljet 24 S SAE 5W40
Unil Opal Opaljet 24S SAE 5W40
Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W40
Valvoline Valvoline DuraBlend MXL SAE 5W40
Valvoline Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W30
Valvoline Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W40
Valvoline Valvoline SynPower motor oil SAE 0W40
Valvoline Valvoline SynPower MXL SAE 5W30
Valvoline Valvoline SynPro motor oil SAE 0W40
VAPS VAPSOIL 502 00 SAE 5W40
Vial Oil Consol Ultima SAE 5W40
Wako Wakos 4CT SAE 5W40
Wolf Wolf Masterlube Synflow DC SAE 5W40
Würth Triathlon Sprint SAE 5W40
Yacco Yacco VX 1000 SAE 5W40
Yacco Yacco VX 600 SAE 5W40
YPF Elaion Plus VWS SAE 5W40
YPF Elaion Sintetico VWS SAE 5W40
YPF YPF Elaion Full Performance SAE 5W40
Yukos UTech System SAE 0W40
Zeller+Gmelin Divinol Syntholight SAE 5W40


I'm done here.......










_Modified by feuerdog at 2:26 PM 4-20-2006_


----------



## wildhare (Feb 15, 2002)

No they can not! If you read the entire ACT... they can not.
conforms is the key WORD here!
Here agian the termonology... Recommended, Approved, Conforms. 
They can NOT void your warranty if you use any manufactures oil that's not on their PAYING list as long as you use their viscosity they require!!




_Modified by wildhare at 7:38 PM 4-20-2006_


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## wildhare (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: (feuerdog)*


_Quote, originally posted by *feuerdog* »_
Technically, maybe. 
If it comes down to a warranty claim where the customer provided his own non-certified oil it may or may not be recorded as such, and/or covered depending on the specific claim and parts/material failure. However, since it IS a toss-up as to how it is claimed, if the adjuster/service manager/tech diagnosis etc. didn't approve covering the claim then no, it would void the warranty *coverage* for the incorrect lubrication and/or it related system/parts.
I deal with warranty claims for 1.8t oil sludge bulletins on an almost daily basis, and there is a FINE line in the determination of a covered engine or not. If there is a questionable factor, the claim will bounce.
I'll continue to use my Mobil 1 0w-40 for another 4 years.

An honest answer! Thank you sir. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## feuerdog (Feb 11, 2002)

_Quote »_.......*except* that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.

According to this part of the act if VW can(or has) shown that the functionality of the warrantied part is dependant on the prior disclosure of specific brand name parts, then the commision can waive the rule.
Basically, it means if you want to go to court over an oil and the FTC/court decides in your favor, then you get a covered claim.
Sounds like a deal to me, but i'd rather swim downstream.

Covered or not, my point is that while Amsoil is a perfectly good oil, there are plenty of other top rated oils on that list which are as good and which won't be questioned IF a claim is made. 










_Modified by feuerdog at 2:50 PM 4-20-2006_


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (wildhare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wildhare* »_Well you didn't directly answer my question.
So I will elaborate for you (in simple terms, no they can't void your warranty per the Magnuson-Moss Act). 
You do have to conform to their viscosity requirements. However, they can not dictate the oil manufacture you MUST utilize.
So, the bottom line is no they can NOT void your warranty if you use the viscosity they require. Another words... the correct viscosity Amsoil will NOT void your warranty.


This is incorrect. This is not a viscosity issue. Actually several viscosities are ok'd by VW. This is also not a Trade name or company name issue. Read the MR act. It states they cant force you to use a certain compnanies products...
"No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name."
The VW 502 certification is not a trade name or a company name. It is a compliance with the tech specs required by them for an oil to be deemed worthy of the demands the vehicle will place on it. This is perfectly legal for a car company to require. As you can see from the list, the consumer has a lot of oils to choose from. VW is not requiring the consumer to choose from only their own brand. They are requiring the consumer purchase the oil that is willing to prove they meet the demands required by 502 certs. Amsoil doesnt submit to testing for this criteria to it is not a warranteeable oil. As I stated and the person above stated, it may go overlooked, but if it doesnt than you are out of compliance and out of luck. Obvously this would apply to those parts that are deemed reliant on the oil for proper working, such as sludged or damaged motors. This of course does not apply to a blown stereo speaker. cheeers! Mike


_Modified by bhvrdr at 11:58 AM 4-20-2006_


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## wildhare (Feb 15, 2002)

Here's my offer to you Mike!
If you feel that Amsoil is and inferior product... I am willing to send to you a case of the viscosity of your choice and their latest EA Oil Filter.
Run it for your normal period of time that you do (drain interval). And run an engine flush (removing any trace of Amsoil), then placing your usual oil and filter for your normal drain interval and comparing TRUE results. 
Find and independant test lab that does oil analysis that nor you or I have dealt with ever.

I'm willing to Step Up and fork over the bucks... how about you?!



_Modified by wildhare at 8:00 PM 4-20-2006_


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (wildhare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wildhare* »_Here's my offer to you Mike!
If you feel that Amsoil is and inferior product... I am willing to send to you a case of the viscosity of your choice and their latest EA Oil Filter.
Run it for your normal period of time that you do (drain interval). Find and independant test lab that does oil analysis that nor you or I have dealt with ever.
And run an engine flush (removing any trace of Amsoil), then placing your usual oil and filter for your normal drain interval and comparing TRUE results.
I'm willing to Step Up and fork over the bucks... how about you?!


Uhh, on my first post I stated...
"It could be a great oil but it is not going to meet warranty requirements."
Somehow you read that I think Amsoil is an inferior oil. I may be a certified Amsoil dealer for all you know. I never said anything bad about the quality of the oil. 
I stated they use very misleading advertising, (which you later confirmed that it is so bad you could see people taking litigation with them) and that they dont meet warranty requirements.
For someone out of warranty it may be the best oil in the world. I'll take you up on the offer when my car hits 50K miles, until then all the oil that will go in my car will meet warranty requirements. 
cheers! Mike


_Modified by bhvrdr at 12:04 PM 4-20-2006_


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_

For someone out of warranty it may be the best oil in the world. I'll take you up on the offer when my car hits 50K miles, until then all the oil that will go in my car will meet warranty requirements. 


Which for me (when out of warranty) will probably be something like Redline 5w40 with its high HTHS rating, group V polyol ester based, high moly & ZDDP add pack. Yum. . . . 
Dave


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## wildhare (Feb 15, 2002)

As I thought a back down of course.
In or out of warranty is it stiil stands as the "best protection" out there!
Again, I'm willing to put up on my end right now. 
And I will be placing their oil in my cars "under warranty" as I have before without incident (same for many friends in the VW/Audi community here).
And the Maguson-Moss Act does cover you under any doubts you may have in this regard.
And BTW, you never did come straight out and answer my question (will using Amsoil void my warranty -- yes or no?). Thanks anyhow.


_Modified by wildhare at 9:09 PM 4-20-2006_


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (wildhare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wildhare* »_As I thought a back down of course.
In or out of warranty is it stiil stands as the "best protection" out there!
Again, I'm willing to put up on my end right now. 
And I will be placing their oil in my cars "under warranty" as I have before without incident (same for many friends in the VW/Audi community here).
And the Maguson-Moss Act does cover you under any doubts you may have in this regard.

Back down . . . . lol . . . i doubt it . . . but you're arguing a point that you're very wrong about. As I mentioned, search bobistheoilguy.com . . . You'll see that this issue has been argued many times before and has been established that amsoil does not meet warranty requirements because they do not undergo the cost of certification/approval for the ratings that they claim.
Here are the three most recent threads:
http://theoildrop.server101.co...00000
http://theoildrop.server101.co...02349
http://theoildrop.server101.co...0;p=1
Dave


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (wildhare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wildhare* »_As I thought a back down of course.
In or out of warranty is it stiil stands as the "best protection" out there!
Again, I'm willing to put up on my end right now. 
And I will be placing their oil in my cars "under warranty" as I have before without incident (same for many friends in the VW/Audi community here).
And the Maguson-Moss Act does cover you under any doubts you may have in this regard.
And BTW, you never did come straight out and answer my question (will using Amsoil void my warranty -- yes or no?). Thanks anyhow.

_Modified by wildhare at 9:09 PM 4-20-2006_

Hey, it's great to see some one so enthusiastic about a product. Excellent to hear. The MR act absolutely does NOT protect you in this case. It is to protect from manufacturers requiring a monopoly such as requiring to purchase certain brands of items, NOT an oil certification. If the oil doesnt meet the warranteeable certification for quality it doesnt meet the warranty requirements. No the warranty will not cover parts damaged due to the non spec oil. This could include items like engine failures and sludge. This has indeed happened on the 1.8T AW board and people have indeed been turned down. Amsoil has some fine UOA out there. I'm not dowing their quality. Jutt would obvoiusly no use it in a warranteed VW/Audi. If you want to see dozens of their UOA just visit http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
cheers! Mike


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## aconsola (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (wildhare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wildhare* »_
And the Maguson-Moss Act does cover you under any doubts you may have in this regard.
And BTW, you never did come straight out and answer my question (will using Amsoil void my warranty -- yes or no?). Thanks anyhow.
_Modified by wildhare at 9:09 PM 4-20-2006_

In the ideal world, yes the m-m act may offer protection. but what about the amsoil user who has a warranty claim denied because the oil is not certified. It will cost lots of time and money to get the ideals in the act recognized. it would likely have been better off just using one of the many approved oils in the first place. it's a practicality issue, not a product superiority thing.
-Anthony


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## wildhare (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: (crew217)*

For those of you that can't read or comprehend... the ACT covers you!
Call your dealer... challenge it.
Better yet, phone a lawyer as i did. Bottom-line you are covered!
Whether an oil is approved or not they can't deny you under this ACT. All they can do is require you to comform to the aapropirate viscosity. Using "any" companies oil WILL NOT void your warranty!
Get a clue!


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (wildhare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wildhare* »_For those of you that can't read or comprehend... the ACT covers you!
Call your dealer... challenge it.
Better yet, phone a lawyer as i did. Bottom-line you are covered!
Whether an oil is approved or not they can't deny you under this ACT. All they can do is require you to comform to the aapropirate viscosity. Using "any" companies oil WILL NOT void your warranty!
Get a clue!

Please point to the line in the MR Act that states the warrantor can not require SPCIFICATIONS be met for quality. The MR Act states...
"No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name."
This has nothing to do with oil certs. I'm not sure where you get the viscosity information from either. You can use the viscosities that meet the quality certification. Notice several different viscosities on the approved oil list. The certification is to ensure using a high enough quality oil. It has nothing to do with brand or viscosity per se.
The MR Act for example would prevent Audi from requiring you purchase a set of $50 "Audi" windshield wipers in order to retain your warranty "unless the warranor provides these free of charge". Ah, so in this case the windshield wipers would NOT be covered by the MR Act if your car warranty covers them. Interstingly, so is the oil covered by the manufacturer at no cost. So they could technically specify an AUDI ONLY oil. But they don't do this. That is only one reason the MR Act wouldnt cover you for using your non certified oil but not the main reason. 
Reason #1 why the MR Act does not protect you using non certified oil..
"No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (*other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty*)..." 
The main reason is that the MR Act states it's perfectly fine for the warrantor to make requirements of the consumer on what part they use as long as they have proven the certification they require the part to have passed is necessary for the proper running of the autimobile. You see the spirit of the MR is to protect us from Audi creating an agreement with a companly like Shell or something and then requiring us to use Shell only oil at $15 per quart. This is what the MR Act is designed to protect. Audi requires no such branding of oils. What they require is a QUALITY CERTIFICATION which is not protected. It is there for a reason...
The #2 reason the MR Act does not apply to using non cert oil...
"except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product"
This is the entire reason companies like Porche/Audi/MB/VW, etc set up oil CERTIFICATIONS. To establish a quality measurement that is required to meed the demands of their motor. 
The MR Act is often incorrectly pointed to as a savior in such cases but it does not protect you from using items that are not meeting quality standards deemed necessary by VW. If you can find an area in the MR Act that does this, post it up. 
cheers! Mike



_Modified by bhvrdr at 2:05 PM 4-20-2006_


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## aconsola (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (wildhare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wildhare* »_
Call your dealer... challenge it.
Better yet, phone a lawyer as i did. Bottom-line you are covered!
Get a clue!

my point exactly, you will have to challenge it and get a lawyer, which will take resources, both time and monetary. Why Bother?
Use what is on the list and forget about it. on your crusade to get people to use your favorite oil, your efforts may be better directed at getting amsoil to submit their product for certification. If it is that good, they have nothing to lose . . . other than misleading advertizing.
-Anthony


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (aconsola)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aconsola* »_In the ideal world, yes the m-m act may offer protection. but what about the amsoil user who has a warranty claim denied because the oil is not certified. It will cost lots of time and money to get the ideals in the act recognized. it would likely have been better off just using one of the many approved oils in the first place. it's a practicality issue, not a product superiority thing.
-Anthony

Reasonable answer.
VW can void your warranty if the non-approved (non 502) oil is used. Maybe they will. Maybe they won't. If they do and you decide to sue, you will spend $50K in time and legal expenses to replace a $5K engine.
Just do the smart thing and use a 502 approved oil.
Other oils might be just as good. But, the other oils did not go through the steps to have their oils certified. If you choose to go with an oil manufacturer who didn't go through the steps to get certified, it will be YOUR headache if/when VW voids your warranty. My guess is Amsoil won't buy you the new engine.


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## Tom16v (Apr 7, 2003)

You guys need to relax and eat some fruit or something. How is the dealer going to know if you were using an oil that isn't vw approved??? (unless of course you are a nipplehead and are using some rubbish non synthetic and the inside of your motor looks like someone poo'ed in it from all the sludge) I believe the amsoil or mobil 1 0-40 would be an excellent choice for this engine.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (Tom16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tom16v* »_You guys need to relax and eat some fruit or something. How is the dealer going to know if you were using an oil that isn't vw approved??? (unless of course you are a nipplehead and are using some rubbish non synthetic and the inside of your motor looks like someone poo'ed in it from all the sludge) I believe the amsoil or mobil 1 0-40 would be an excellent choice for this engine. 

If you perform your own oil changes you have to show documentation of the type of oil used & receipt as well as the type of filter used & receipt.
Offtopic but the same . . . . my friend got his engine warranty voided because he had an aftermarket downpipe. They said the downpipe caused the turbine to spin faster than specified by borg warner & that was what caused his turbo to fail. 
Sure he can go defend the MM act but he does not have the money or inclination to do so with VW. Not to mention, often these lawsuits take at least 6 months to 1.5 years.
Dave


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: (feuerdog)*

haha........this is kinda funny, first everybody tells Wildhare to "read carefully", then ignores their own advice. Basically it comes down to this.......Amsoil *has not* been approved as VWs 502 specification, that's correct. *But* it does *conform* to the VW/Audi 502 spec, and as long as it is within viscosity requirements, can not void the warrenty. Trying to be smart, at first the Amsoil does look like they are trying to play word games on the back of the bottle, and it means nothing. But like I said, it is not an approved oil, but it does meet the standards required to maintain warrenty coverage by VW. 
Quote »
Engine Oil, Oil Quality Standard
17-05-05
All Audi 2005, 2006 Model Year engines must
always use engine oil that expressly conforms
to Audi Oil Quality Standard VW 502 00 (with
viscosities of SAE 5W-40, 5W-30, 0W-40).
"Expressly conforms" means it must be stated (in writing) that it meets the requirements. If something surpasses a qualification than it conforms to it as well. They would have to state something along the lines of "expressly approved" or something like that. 
That said, They cannot void your warrenty. Can they try? Well if you had a serious engine problem, I'm sure they would. Another problem VW would have trying to deny warrenty claims because of oil, is that the only actual document they give you with oil requirements is the owners manual. And the owners manual does not state that you must use a 502 oil, hell, all it says is use 5w40 synthetic, if not available use a 5w30. 
Personally I always have and always will run Mobile 1 5w40, so I could care less. just wanted to add my $.02


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

Ok folks, let's try and dial it back.
I really think the bottom line is of you want to have no doubt about your warranty coverage with respect to oil being used then just use any oil listed here. _pdf document from audi_
If you have brand loyality to a company or oil not listed here then that is your choice. But, VW/Audi/etc have these certifications for a reason. That the oils have the right additives, cleansers, detergents, etc that work with the materials they use in their engines.
Can an oil have the right amount of stuff required but not be certified because certification costs money? Sure, but, it's taking a gamble in my opinion.


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (blackvento36)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackvento36* »_haha........this is kinda funny, first everybody tells Wildhare to "read carefully", then ignores their own advice. Basically it comes down to this.......Amsoil *has not* been approved as VWs 502 specification, that's correct. *But* it does *conform* to the VW/Audi 502 spec, and as long as it is within viscosity requirements, can not void the warrenty. Trying to be smart, at first the Amsoil does look like they are trying to play word games on the back of the bottle, and it means nothing. But like I said, it is not an approved oil, but it does meet the standards required to maintain warrenty coverage by VW. 
Quote »
Engine Oil, Oil Quality Standard
17-05-05
All Audi 2005, 2006 Model Year engines must
always use engine oil that expressly conforms
to Audi Oil Quality Standard VW 502 00 (with
viscosities of SAE 5W-40, 5W-30, 0W-40).
"Expressly conforms" means it must be stated (in writing) that it meets the requirements. If something surpasses a qualification than it conforms to it as well. They would have to state something along the lines of "expressly approved" or something like that. 
That said, They cannot void your warrenty. Can they try? Well if you had a serious engine problem, I'm sure they would. Another problem VW would have trying to deny warrenty claims because of oil, is that the only actual document they give you with oil requirements is the owners manual. And the owners manual does not state that you must use a 502 oil, hell, all it says is use 5w40 synthetic, if not available use a 5w30. 
Personally I always have and always will run Mobile 1 5w40, so I could care less. just wanted to add my $.02



In order to conform to the spec it actually has to be tested against it (i know that seems obvious). VW doesnt just take the oil companies "word" for it. That's the reason for the spec. If you look closer to the oil warranty and audi requirement, it must meet the spec (conform) and proof of meeting it is required. This does not include the oil manufactuer's "word" that they meet it. It must actually be tested to meet it and show it "conforms". Hence the reason for the "approved" oil list. In the coverage letters it does actually state that the oil must meet the spec and that meeting it should be listed on the bottle of each approved oil. I've called AoA and Amsoil on this issue.
cheers! Mike


_Modified by bhvrdr at 10:04 AM 5-3-2006_


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## wildhare (Feb 15, 2002)

Bottom line is do what you believe is best!
I have run Amsoil in all my VAG cars under warranty and have never had a problem!
I know that running the oil of my choice I have the best protection and that if I had problem they'd be there to back me up.
Best of luck to you!


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_In order to conform to the spec it actually has to be tested against it (i know that seems obvious). VW doesnt just take the oil companies "word" for it. That's the reason for the spec. If you look closer to the oil warranty and audi requirement, it must meet the spec (conform) and proof of meeting it is required. This does not include the oil manufactuer's "word" that they meet it. It must actually be tested to meet it and show it "conforms". Hence the reason for the "approved" oil list. In the coverage letters it does actually state that the oil must meet the spec and that meeting it should be listed on the bottle of each approved oil. I've called AoA and Amsoil on this issue.
cheers! Mike

_Modified by bhvrdr at 10:04 AM 5-3-2006_

This list that VW has gathered together, I believe it to be nothing more than a "suggestion". Oil changes are very routine maintnance, it's not the same as changing the gear oil in your manual transmission. VW does not make this list readily available. The list is not even actually meant to be in our hands. If not for the 'tex how many ppl do you think would know what the 502 spec is? The only thing VW tells you in the manual is to use 5w40 or substitute with 5w30. The dealer called my house a couple months after I bought the car cuz they knew my oil change was due. I told them I was gonna do it myself, know what they said? "Just be sure to use 5w40 synthetic". Like I said I recognize the list is there and I already use an oil that's on the list, but from a legality standpoint, since they don't state anywhere that you must use an oil on the list to maintain warrenty coverage, the list is nothing more than a suggestion.


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## fuscobal (Nov 24, 2004)

I've recently put Castrol RS 10W60 into my engine. Hope this will do !


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (blackvento36)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackvento36* »_
Like I said I recognize the list is there and I already use an oil that's on the list, but from a legality standpoint, since they don't state anywhere that you must use an oil on the list to maintain warrenty coverage, the list is nothing more than a suggestion.

You are correct - the list is only to assist in finding oils that meet their specification. Meeting the specification is all that matters. Only oils that are certified to meet that specification are ones that are approved for use, those that are not certified to meet that specification are not.


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (blackvento36)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackvento36* »_
If not for the 'tex how many ppl do you think would know what the 502 spec is? .

I agree with what Joe stated. He said it well. True the oil list is provided as a convenience. There are other oils that meet 502 spec but to clarify you cannot use any old 5w-40. The reason people know about the 502 spec is because in the warranty manual for each of our cars it states the oil used MUST meet 502. It does not state to just use any oil of the approved viscosity. It must meet VW performance specs as stated in your manual. cheers! Mike


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## aqn (Nov 20, 2001)

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_You are correct - the list is only to assist in finding oils that meet their specification. Meeting the specification is all that matters. Only oils that are certified to meet that specification are ones that are approved for use, those that are not certified to meet that specification are not.


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_The reason people know about the 502 spec is because in the warranty manual for each of our cars it states the oil used MUST meet 502.

To be rigorous: the warranty booklet does *not* say that.
It says: "This warranty does not cover damage or malfunctions which are
due to failure to follow *recommended maintenance requirements*
[_emphasis is mine_] as set forth in the Volkswagen Owner's Manual
and the Maintenance Booklet. Your dealer will deny warranty coverage
unless you present to the dealer proof in the form of repair orders that
all scheduled maintenance was performed in a timely manner."
"502" *is* mentioned, on page 42 of the "3.2 Tips and Advice" booklet).
It says "use *only* [_emphasis is mine_] ...[an oil].. that expressly complies with *Volkswagen
oil quality standard 502 00* [_bold face is VW's_]."
So, one can argue that VW can void a warranty if they can prove that you
have not used VW 502 00 oil, but, again, the warranty booklet does *not*
mention "502" anything.

_Quote, originally posted by *blackvento36* »_This list that VW has gathered together, I believe it to be nothing more than a "suggestion".
[...]
If not for the 'tex how many ppl do you think would know what the 502 spec is?

Um... All those who bother to actually *read* their manuals?

_Quote, originally posted by *blackvento36* »_The only thing VW tells you in the manual is to use 5w40 or substitute with 5w30.

That is not _all_ that VW tells you. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to
verify that. Here's a hint: it's on page 42 of booklet 3.2.

_Quote, originally posted by *blackvento36* »_The dealer called my house a couple months after I bought the car cuz they knew my oil change was due. I told them I was gonna do it myself, know what they said? "Just be sure to use 5w40 synthetic".

Hmmm... You are free to follow their advice, of course. But what
are you gonna do when they deny your warranty because you did not
use a VW 502 00 oil? Can you prove that *they* told you that?

_Quote, originally posted by *blackvento36* »_Like I said I recognize the list is there and I already use an oil that's on the list, but from a legality standpoint, since they don't state anywhere that you must use an oil on the list to maintain warrenty coverage, the list is nothing more than a suggestion.

See above.


_Modified by aqn at 12:33 PM 5-18-2006_


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

Chip Wars, The Oil Strikes Back, and what would make for the trifecta?








And we could have Weber vs Delortto as prequels!
Yep, the wine was good tonight.
Oh and on topic, VW has published a list of "approved oils". If you use one of them you don't have to worry about a warranty claim being denied for not using a VW 502 compliant oil. If you don't you run the risk of a claim being denied. PERIOD.
The quality of the oil has nothing to do with it. I could personally melt down a tyranasaours (whatever) rex into goo, refine it to the point where I could coat a bullet with it and the bullet would orbit the earth at 50 feet above sea level because there was no wind resistance and it at the same time caused APR and GIAC to merge while also creating peace in the middle east and VW would still say my warranty is denied because I put it in my car and it didn't say VW 502 certified.
Dogs and cats living together, MASS HYSTERIA!
Did I mention the wine?


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: 0W-40 or 5W-40? (aqn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aqn* »_
To be rigorous: the warranty booklet does *not* say that.
It says: "This warranty does not cover damage or malfunctions which are
due to failure to follow *recommended maintenance requirements*
[_emphasis is mine_] as set forth in the Volkswagen Owner's Manual
and the Maintenance Booklet. Your dealer will deny warranty coverage
unless you present to the dealer proof in the form of repair orders that
all scheduled maintenance was performed in a timely manner."
"502" *is* mentioned, on page 42 of the "3.2 Tips and Advice" booklet).
It says "use *only* [_emphasis is mine_] ...[an oil].. that expressly complies with *Volkswagen
oil quality standard 502 00* [_bold face is VW's_]."
So, one can argue that VW can void a warranty if they can prove that you
have not used VW 502 00 oil, but, again, the warranty booklet does *not*
mention "502" anything.
Um... All those who bother to actually *read* their manuals?
That is not _all_ that VW tells you. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to
verify that. Here's a hint: it's on page 42 of booklet 3.2.
Hmmm... You are free to follow their advice, of course. But what
are you gonna do when they deny your warranty because you did not
use a VW 502 00 oil? Can you prove that *they* told that?
See above.

_Modified by aqn at 11:02 PM 5-5-2006_


This is good information, but incomplete. For the 2.0T FSI motors AND the 3.2FSI motors the manual is VERY specific about what to use. Again, simply search in the index of your manual and you will see "What kind of oil should I put in my engine?" under the topic "OIL"...
It reads ...
"Whether you use synthetic or petroleum-based engine oil, the oil that you use must conform to Audi's oil quality standard VW 502 00 to help keep your vehicle's engine running smoothly and help prevent the formulation of harmful deposits, sometimes called "sludge", that over time can lead to expensive repairs." 
If that's not clear enough the manyual goes on to state...
"At the time of printing, engine oils available in the US and Canada that meet the exacting specifications of Audi oil Standard VW 502 00 are synthetic engine oils. *The does not mean however that every synthetic engine oil will meet Audi oil standard VW 502 00. So always be sure you use an approved oil.*"
I'm not sure how much clearer that could be, but in addition it states...
"However, if engine oil viscosity grade 5w-40 is not available, you can also use viscosities grade 5w-30 or ow-40 *as long as it meets Auid oil quality standard VW 502 00 specifications*."
I'm not sure why people don't want to believe this is a standard and this is what needs to be used, but it is what it is. This is a required QUALITY standard that is not protected by the MR act. The good thing is that there are dozens of oils that meet this standard and it only takes 30 seconds to make sure you are using the right one by looking at the approved oil list. Many folks assume you can present a MR act or some oil brochure from an oil manufacturer printed off the internet and all their mods and/or lack of conforming to standards is forgiven, but that's not going to happen. 
cheers! Mike



_Modified by bhvrdr at 8:27 AM 5-6-2006_


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: 0W-40 or 5W-40? (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_I'm not sure why people don't want to believe this is a standard and this is what needs to be used, but it is what it is. 
cheers! Mike


Because it's fun to argue for no reason on the internet


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: 0W-40 or 5W-40? ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Because it's fun to argue for no reason on the internet









IS NOT!!


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