# 2.5 starting problems



## DGR33 (Sep 4, 2008)

I have a 2008 Jetta SE 2.5 bone stock. The car has about 50,000 miles and lately we've noticed when starting it, it will spin for about 3 to 5 seconds before firing. Not all the time and warm or cold it will do it. I'm thinking it may be something in the injection system which allows the fuel to drain away. Anyone else experience this? Any help and or advise is appreciated.


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

Possibly clogged/dirty fuel injectors? Tune up (since youre at 50k)? Any CELs?


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

The spark plugs in these cars last 60k. Less if you are burning unleaded. Your fuel injectors are huge and just fine. Could be the pump though as they seem hit or miss on these mk5's. 

Cleaning fuel injectors doesn't work fyi. Don't buy the $400 cleaning package the stealership sells. That is pure hocus pocas. 

Cars also get old, bad gas, watered down gas, etc etc etc. Try cleaning the plugs off (hard to clean as there is little to no element there on these type of plugs) and if that doesn't work, replace them as you're due anyway. 

The fuel filter is also a 45k item. Try replacing that as well, be super careful w/the tabs on the fuel lines for fuel filter. 

The fuel filter is about $50 because it has a valve built into it for the type of fuel system this car runs. Sry i know it sucks. 

Dump a whole bottle of seafoam into your FULL tank of gas too. Will help clean things up A LOT and 100% safe. You can do seafoam cleaning on intake and what not manually through vacuum lines but I like to just dump it in the gas tank these days. It will clean up heavy deposits and eliminate any problems w/water/moisture in your fuel. 

2008 w/50k miles sounds like u don't drive much so it could just be sitting too long. try adding STABIL to the gas tank if it sits for more than a week or so at a time between fill ups too! IF it is going to sit for over a week!!!! This is just an extra tip, not something you need to really worry about hehe. 



I ran my car over 30k miles, HARD, on a stock tune w/no cat, intake manifold, K&N, original plugs to 56k (replaced fuel filter at 45k like clock work though) and it runs RICH RICH RICH but has not managed to foul anything out. It still starts at over 60k w/no problems like a MK5 typically does. 

*I would seriously consider replacing the fuel filter first and go from there if you haven't since the car was new. Also, these cars hate to burn anything under 91 octane from the factory. I run 93+ oct. tier 1 gasoline in my motor since new and it has only suffered through a few tanks of less.* Find out what gas stations in your area sell the good gas and try that. If you're going to value gas america, while their higher volume of sales lowers the moisture in their gas, they still pull BS at those cheapie places. In my city only Shell and BP sell tier 1 grade gasoline. I'd go the highest volume distributor of proper gasoline in your area, fill it up, dump a whole bottle of seafoam in, and head over to autoparts store for a fuel filter. Nappa sells oem brand fuel filters for our cars fyi.


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## DGR33 (Sep 4, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. 
No CEL's. 
Car is run daily but only 6 miles one way to work. 
I'll put a new filter and plugs in next weekend. Also will do the Seafoam treatment. I live near German Auto Parts so I can pick up the filter and plugs there. Price is only $28 for a filter.


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## stupakjim (Sep 17, 2005)

Try replacing the purge valve, $18 from dealer + you will need a new clamp. :thumbup:


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

not sure you'd need to just randomly try replacing the purge valve...might be a waste of money go with the other items first: 

1. fill up with 93 oct from a top tier station...ie shell, chevron. bad gas can absolutely cause your 
car to have trouble starting, or to not start at all. 
2. fuel filter (not $50...should be about $35 from the dealer) 
3. spark plugs (plugs and filter both should be done at your mileage anyway, so do them) 
4. seafoam in the gas tank


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

oh, and after you do these things please post up again with the results so that we can determine the cause. too many people post problems and let the thread die without a resolution...makes for a difficult time when others run into similar issues. 

:beer:


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## stupakjim (Sep 17, 2005)

You wouldn't spent $18 on a new purge valve..... but you'll put a can of seafoam in the tank $10, a set of plugs $65, fuel filter $35, :laugh:, at least run the seafoam through the vac line, and dump some in the oil, run it for a day, then change your oil.


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## stupakjim (Sep 17, 2005)

I bet you that it's the purge valve, "not all the time" is the key words.


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## DGR33 (Sep 4, 2008)

LampyB said:


> oh, and after you do these things please post up again with the results so that we can determine the cause. too many people post problems and let the thread die without a resolution...makes for a difficult time when others run into similar issues.
> 
> :beer:


 Will do. I'll start with plugs and filter. If it still acts the same I'll do the purge valve and seafoam. Doing everything at once won't pinpoint what's wrong.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

stupakjim said:


> You wouldn't spent $18 on a new purge valve..... but you'll put a can of seafoam in the tank $10, a set of plugs $65, fuel filter $35, :laugh:, at least run the seafoam through the vac line, and dump some in the oil, run it for a day, then change your oil.


 the reason i recommended plugs and the fuel filter was simply because his mileage is close to changing them out for regular maintenance. if he wasn't close to 50K, i'd say just check the condition of the plugs to see if they need to be replaced and try the purge valve prior to the fuel filter. 

:beer:


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## DGR33 (Sep 4, 2008)

Another question. My OEM plugs are Bosch FR7HE02. Should I go with these or NGK. IF NGK which number? Thanks.


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## stupakjim (Sep 17, 2005)

lampy, 

I went through the same issue with my jetta, I did plugs, fuel filter, and coils. Didn't solve the intermittent start up trouble. After purge valve was replaced, never had an issue since. I apoligize if I came off disrespectful. 

OP, 
Please post up when issue is solved, too many people leave unanswered threads.


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## 08Silverjetta (Jun 26, 2012)

I have this same issue with my 08 SE Jetta (90,000 miles.) I tried replacing the plugs, coils, fuel filter and air filter. The plugs and coils helped a little, but it still starts hard on the first start after sitting for awhile. 

I've also found that the problem is not as bad if I let the key in the on/start position for a little before turning the key all the way to start the car.

I cant believe that regular gas would cause something like this, so I'll try replacing the purge valve first.

Will report back on how it goes.


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## DGR33 (Sep 4, 2008)

Just an update. Change plugs and fuel filter and no difference. Still spins and spins before firing. Very intermittent though. Sometimes it will start right up sometimes not. Seafoam is next and if that doesn't work probably a new purge valve.
Plugs looked great when I pulled them and I know they could have gone longer. There's no reason in my mind that they should be changed at 50k. I have an '02 Explorer with a 100,000 mile plug change interval.
Will check back in a few days.


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## sbghms (Aug 19, 2008)

Mine pretty rarely does this. When I went in for service they told me they had a software update which was supposed to cure hard starts. Didn't make any difference imo.


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## 08Silverjetta (Jun 26, 2012)

Ok -- I just changed the purge valve and it did not solve the problem. I will now try filling with Shell 93 octane gas for a few tanks. See if that helps. Will report back soon.

PS. Purge valve was super easy to change.


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## truwagen (Jun 14, 2007)

A couple thoughts:
Have you scanned the car for faults? Is the fuel pump priming when you open your driver's door?


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## 08Silverjetta (Jun 26, 2012)

Good questions. No, I have not scanned the system for faults. The check engine light is not on. Could the car still have faults with no check engine light on?

Yes, the fuel pump does prime when I open the driver side door.

Another symptom of the problem appears to be heat. If the car sits in the sun all day, it has more trouble starting than if it sits in my garage. Not sure why heat would play a role...


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## DGR33 (Sep 4, 2008)

trudub said:


> A couple thoughts:
> Have you scanned the car for faults? Is the fuel pump priming when you open your driver's door?


After reading this I went out and opened the door. No pump. This I opened it this morning and the pump worked. I have a Vag so I scanned it. I don't know why I didn't do it before. I guess because there was no light on. Here's what I got. I'm guessing maybe a bad connection. Just have to find it. Anyone with advise is appreciated.

Address 01: Engine (CBU) Labels: 06A-906-032-BGP.lbl
Part No SW: 07K 906 032 BG HW: 07K 906 032 Q
Component: 2,5l R5/4V G 1565 
Revision: 1NH01--- Serial number: VWX7Z0G524T1KI
Coding: 0000003
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 6FE7DE9D7E862CC

5 Faults Found:
000627 - Fuel Injector #5 (N83) 
P0273 - 002 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 84566 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 08:06:39

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 230 /min
Load: 76.8 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 53.0°C
Temperature: 37.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.922 V

000609 - Fuel Injector #1 (N30) 
P0261 - 002 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 84566 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 08:06:39

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 230 /min
Load: 76.8 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 53.0°C
Temperature: 37.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.922 V

000624 - Fuel Injector #4 (N33) 
P0270 - 002 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 84566 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 08:06:39

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 230 /min
Load: 76.8 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 53.0°C
Temperature: 37.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.922 V

000612 - Fuel Injector #2 (N31) 
P0264 - 002 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 84566 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 08:06:39

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 230 /min
Load: 76.8 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 53.0°C
Temperature: 37.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.922 V

000615 - Fuel Injector #3 (N32) 
P0267 - 002 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 84566 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 08:06:39

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 230 /min
Load: 76.8 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 53.0°C
Temperature: 37.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 10.922 V

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3C0-937-049-30-M.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 937 049 AH HW: 3C0 937 049 AH
Component: Bordnetz-SG H54 2202 
Revision: 00H54000 Serial number: 00000000688144
Coding: 14058E234004150007140000001400000008730B5C000100000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 6FE7DE9D7E862CC

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K1 955 119 E Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
Component: Wischer 110707 020 0501 
Coding: 00038805
Shop #: WSC 00066 

2 Faults Found:
01259 - Fuel Pump Relay (J17) 
009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101001
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 38
Mileage: 84566 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2005.09.13
Time: 31:63:63

Freeze Frame:
OFF 
Voltage: 12.50 V
OFF 
ON 
OFF 
OFF 
OFF


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## truwagen (Jun 14, 2007)

DGR33 said:


> 2 Faults Found:
> 01259 - Fuel Pump Relay (J17)
> 009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
> Freeze Frame:
> ...


Ok. Well, all of those faults occurred at the same time (84566 km). I am assuming this was pretty recent given that the reset counter for the fuel pump relay is so high, since that number decreases each time the car runs without triggering that fault. The J17 fuel pump relay going bad does not seem too uncommon and can cause issues starting. Good luck and keep us posted!


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## 08Silverjetta (Jun 26, 2012)

Great info! Is this the part? http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Jetta_V--2.5/Search/Fuel_Pump_Relay/ES296358/


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## DGR33 (Sep 4, 2008)

I just realized what probably caused these faults. When I changed the fuel filter I pulled the fuel pump fuse and then turned the engine over to relieve the pressure. I'm sure that's why these faults popped up. I'm going to clear the codes and try again. Back to square one i'm afraid.


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## 08Silverjetta (Jun 26, 2012)

Any update on this issue?


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## 08Silverjetta (Jun 26, 2012)

Update on the problem! No solution, but I have noticed that the start problem is worse when the tank is near empty. Anything half full or above and the engine starts almost normally. However, when my tank is around 1/4 full it requires two turns of the key to start. 

Anyone else notice this? Could this mean that the problem is related to the fuel pump?


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## DGR33 (Sep 4, 2008)

Mine is still acting the same. Sometimes the fuel pump will run when you open the door and sometimes it won't. I'm sure this is the problem but I've been very busy and haven't done anything about it yet. Will check back in later.


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## 08Silverjetta (Jun 26, 2012)

That's interesting-- mine doesnt prime every time either, however, I thought this was normal. Are you saying that its not and that the fuel pump should turn on every time the drivers side door opens?


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## 08Silverjetta (Jun 26, 2012)

Great news! My mechanic found the problem! Turns out the check valve in the fuel pump that maintains the fuel pressure when the engine is turned off went bad. The fix was a new fuel pump. Total cost was about $300. Not bad at all.

Hope this helps!


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## DGR33 (Sep 4, 2008)

Thanks for the update. I bet that's what's wrong with mine but for $300 I'll put up with it.


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## chadone (Apr 26, 2010)

Mine does this sometimes. Not all the time. I thought it might be something in the tank. Does anyone have an idea of how to replace it yourself?

Do they have a list of part numbers replaced?


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## 08Silverjetta (Jun 26, 2012)

Just a new fuel pump: http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Jetta_V--2.5/Search/Fuel_Pump/ES318263/


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## Jon1983 (Feb 21, 2009)

08Silverjetta said:


> Another symptom of the problem appears to be heat. If the car sits in the sun all day, it has more trouble starting than if it sits in my garage. Not sure why heat would play a role...


I had this issue a few times on days where it was chilly in the morning when I went to work (started fine), and the car would get baked outside all day in the sun. When I started the car to go home, it was 5-6 seconds of just turning over, and then it started.

On the assumption that it was condensation (I had the issue on two different tanks of gas), I used STP Water Remover and the problem hasn't returned. Not saying this is the solution for everyone, but it's a very cheap experiment vs. replacing the fuel pump.


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