# Does anyone use Royal Purple?



## Mr.Ribbit (Mar 18, 2009)

I have a 97 jetta 2.0 with 140k miles that I drive rough on occasion. my friend swears by royal purple every 3k miles but he drives an 87 rx7 and thats almost 10bucks a quart. if it'll do what he says then I'm willing to fork over the dough to protect my car. I have been searching the tex and other sites for consumer info but I have been unsuccessfull, any info would be appreciated, thanks in advance.


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## TechMeister (Jan 7, 2008)

There is no way to know if any Royal Purple product is suitable let alone good for your VW as none of their products have been tested and approved by VW for use in a VW engine. People buy into ad hype and have no clue if one oil is actually any better than another. It's all foolishness as consumers are easily duped. If someone is not conducting the car maker oil test sequence which cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per oil tested, you're just guessing.

My advice is use a VW approved oil and you will know that the chemistry is correct for your VW engine. Anything else is the blind leading the clueless...


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## Mr.Ribbit (Mar 18, 2009)

That's what I was thinking, but I just want the best for my engine, do you think motul would be the best tested oil for it?


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

just run mobil1 0w40 or castrol syntec 0w30...seriously, it's NOT going to make a difference...especially if you change your oil every 3k miles...you could even use less expensive valvoline or havoline 5w30 synthetic (or non) and it wouldn't matter

for the 2.0 engine at 140k miles, you are best off just running a non-synthetic mobil, castrol, or penzoil and keeping it changed every 3-5k miles...again, it won't matter


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## TechMeister (Jan 7, 2008)

Mr.Ribbit said:


> That's what I was thinking, but I just want the best for my engine, do you think motul would be the best tested oil for it?


There is no way for consumers to know if one oil will perform better than another as far as actual internal engine lubrication. Any of the VW tested and approved oils should serve you well.


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## Deadzero2005 (Apr 13, 2006)

I had a 96 Jetta GLS 2.0L a couple years back and only used castrol 10w-30 syn blend. I bought the car when it had 58K and used that oil until it had 155K. Car is no longer around because of the accident I got into but I still got the motor cause it was runnin mint :thumbup:


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## marcohh8 (Jul 12, 2010)

i recently put royal purple in my 04 1.8t with 100k. im very impressed by it. i havent dyno'd it but i think it added maybe 3-5 hp. i had a friend drive my car the day before and then about 100 miles after the change (i didnt tell him that i switch from mobil 1) he asked if i changed something he thought there was more power as well. im a believer in it. i also saw a magazine test it and they gained roughly 5hp.


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## TechMeister (Jan 7, 2008)

Butt dynos are wrong 99.9999999% of the time.  That's why car makers use engine dynos to determine engine power.


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## gehr (Jan 28, 2004)

Butt dynos can be adjusted well, with a good swift kick to them! True story.


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## Mr.Ribbit (Mar 18, 2009)

TechMeister said:


> Butt dynos are wrong 99.9999999% of the time.  That's why car makers use engine dynos to determine engine power.


but engine dynos only measure break hp, whereas full dynos measure whp


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## TechMeister (Jan 7, 2008)

Mr.Ribbit said:


> but engine dynos only measure break hp, whereas full dynos measure whp


Engine dynos measure actual engine torque/HP as in REAL power, as in SAE/DIN torque/HP, where as chassis dynos are a poorly controlled exercise in frustration and use a bunch of fudge factors resulting in completely meaningless data which is almost as bad as BUTT dynos which have NO data what so ever.

BTW, no one cares about "*break* hp"... If it's broken it's broken. LOL  WHP like "break hp" and BUTT dyno HP is pretty worthless.


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

TechMeister said:


> Engine dynos measure actual engine torque/HP as in REAL power, as in SAE/DIN torque/HP, where as chassis dynos are a poorly controlled exercise in frustration and use a bunch of fudge factors resulting in completely meaningless data which is almost as bad as BUTT dynos which have NO data what so ever.



Engine dynos may satisfy the pocket-protector nerd in all of us, but are probably pretty useless in measuring how much of that REAL power is actually (not theoretically) getting through the drivetrain and to the ground, which is where most non-technical types usually drive their cars. That being said, I've never put my own car on a chassis dyno, or any other dyno. I just drive the damn thing.


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## TheBossQ (Aug 15, 2009)

marcohh8 said:


> i recently put royal purple in my 04 1.8t with 100k. im very impressed by it. i havent dyno'd it but i think it added maybe 3-5 hp. i had a friend drive my car the day before and then about 100 miles after the change (i didnt tell him that i switch from mobil 1) he asked if i changed something he thought there was more power as well. im a believer in it. i also saw a magazine test it and they gained roughly 5hp.


I have only seen one test where any HP was gained. It was on Two Guys Garage or one of the HP TV shows. They gained 3HP on back to back dynos, with an oil change, trans fluid change and diff fluid change. I believe the test car was a Mustang GT.

IIRC, they did not change all the fluids with fresh conventional fluids, dyno the car, and then dyno test with fresh RP synthetic. They changed out used (how used up, who knows) conventional fluids for fresh RP synthetic. I can believe a 3hp gain on a test like this. I refuse to believe anyone gained 5hp from an engine oil change alone.


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## TechMeister (Jan 7, 2008)

jmj-

What do you care how much power is getting to the ground? You certainly can't determine this from a chassis dyno test especially when they make up a fudge factor for drivetrain loss... Are you going to change the driveline to change the parasitic losses? Not likely.

When you want factual, scientific data you should be using a properly calibrated and operated engine dyno. Anything less is just a waste of time. That was my point about BUTT dynos and totally unsubstantiated power increase claims. They are complete nonsense. People believe what they want to believe even when it has no basis in reality. If folks want to believe changing from brand A oil to brand B oil gives them 5 more HP, so be it. I have some ocean front property in AZ they might be interested in? 

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

Performance always gets a bump with new fluids because of the fresh friction modifiers. Any set of dyno runs can produce a few extra hp once or twice. Just pick the run you want as your "test" one and invalidate the others.

I actually have some RP 15w-40 in my new Tiguan just because I got it for $10/g. It's got high additive levels, etc, but wouldn't be my first choice normally. I'm just running it a few 1000 miles for break-in. Generally, lab work on used oil shows RP working no better than $2 dino oil. If you want a premium oil, there are a lot better choices out there. 

People with modded cars def need a heavier 40 weight oil, Shell Rotella T 5w-40 is as good as any and dirt cheap. Stock cars can run on 30 weight unless the oil temp gets elevated past +200f. Dino 10w-30 or 10w-40 is fine for 5-6k miles. The only reasons for synth would be a turbo, ultra cold temps or a desire to go for extended drains. There is basically no benefit to a fancy oil. That being said, I use a lot of German Syntec 0w-30 and some otc 5w-30 synths like Pennzoil Platinum, Edge or SynPower. They are all good products. Mobil 1 HIGH MILES line is pretty interesting. Whiles the normal M1 line is kind of crappy, the HM oils have more additives, blended to an older SL spec that allows it, and has the thick Euro A3 and thinner A5 synth specs in 5w-30. Basically, it has high HT/HS too, the +150c visc. Anyway, a lot depends on driving style and climate as well as typical trip length.


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## jolfdriver01 (Sep 1, 2006)

The bottom line really, is that ALL motor or any consumer oil MUST meet or exceed manufacture specs. Right or wrong? 


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

TechMeister said:


> jmj-What do you care how much power is getting to the ground?



I don't. That's why I've never put any of my cars on a dynamometer. I also don't live in a world of scientific absolutes, either, so I could care less if a chassis dyno is less precise than an engine dyno, or if I can't "prove" that one oil is working better than the other because I haven't torn down my engine and measured the parts with scientifically calibrated tools.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

jolfdriver01 said:


> The bottom line really, is that ALL motor or any consumer oil MUST meet or exceed manufacture specs. Right or wrong? 


You can exceed specs without submitting for the test sequence, "approval", which is as much as $500k. Rotella is a good example, it's formulated and marketed for heavy industrial specs, but happens to exceed VW 502 as well. There are tons of examples, like Mobil 1 5w-40, Redline, AMSoil etc.

Other considerations are that the mfg oem specs include stipulations like cold-cranking and mpg, which may not apply to every customer's intended use, like hot climates or when the mpg gain is intended for the window sticker. Also, oems spec extended drain intervals, which might not appeal to everyone. That is, a non-turbo like a new VW 2.5 can run fine on dino oils, changed more often. I feel that shorter intervals of dino oils work better. There is no substitute for physically draining out contaminates.


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## TechMeister (Jan 7, 2008)

AudiSportA4-

Gosh you make so many baseless claims it's staggering to even read such nonsense. Do you have a shred of VW oil sequence test data to support ANY of your claims? That's a rhetorical question because I already know you do not or you would not make the posts you make here and in other threads... 

Until you actually have VW oil test sequence test data you have nothing but ad hype and speculation to base your oil lubrication beliefs on - which means you've got nothing. This is typical of oil zealots and forum WizDumb. As explained to you in the other thread, a UOA does NOT tell you how an oil performs in an engine - it helps you determine the proper OCI for a given oil in a given application. Doug Hillary's article explains the mis-use of a UOA by fanbois and why a UOA can not provide the info. that the fanbois want it to provide. Obviously people who do not understand the technical subject are easily duped into believing that a UOA can determine things it was never intended to determine and can't determine such as internal engine lubrication performance of an oil.

Thankfully VW and other reputable car makers test oils and only certify those that deliver the proper lubrication that VW engines require. If the over-hyped oils like Red Line, Royal Purple, Amsoil etc. are as good as they claim to be then one would think they'd be thrilled to have VW test and approve their oils. The reality is these companies are small boutique oil companies selling promises to gullible consumers that have no means to determine if the claims provide any tangible benefit in their engine.

Without objective VW oil test sequence test data the performance of these boutique oils in a VW or any other engine is all speculation. They may be good for some engines and not so good for others? We simply do not know without objective oil sequence testing. In addition the boutique oil companies change oil formulations all the time so you never know what oil you are getting or if the change is good or bad for your engine. THIS is reality even though the fanbois don't like to hear it.

Personally I do not care what oil anyone uses in their engine as long as they are an informed consumer not being duped by ad hype, technical ignorance or false information disseminated as fact.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

TM, you post the same crap over and over, challenging people to disprove and prove various aspects of your own suppositions, while you offer none of your own technicals.

Just to clear up a few of your mistakes...

VW does not "test or approve" oils. Independent labs do the testing and certification. A 3 year license to carry the approval is $500k, an obvious discouragement for independent formulators and majors whose target for a specific oil is not the Euro passenger car market. Their claim is that they reduce overhead and put the costs back into the product they sell. No reason to believe they cannot exceed the modest parameters of VW 502, especially since they purchase their additive packages from the same places as majors, like Lubrizol, Ornite, Afton et al.

http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdditives/default.html

In fact, Lubrizol made comparison of the various Euro specs quite easy. 

http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/RelativePerformanceToolIntro.html

I posted this link before, but don't think you looked at it yet. You should really stop typing and read more than just the basic garbage you've posted so far. You have a long way to go.




I think RI-RS4 has made a good case for BioSyn's performance....











When techmister puts together his own studies that rival this quality and quantity, then we can give him some credit beyond big-mouth spewing of his very limited knowledge.


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## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

TechMeister said:


> There is no way to know if any Royal Purple product is suitable let alone good for your VW as none of their products have been tested and approved by VW for use in a VW engine. People buy into ad hype and have no clue if one oil is actually any better than another. It's all foolishness as consumers are easily duped. If someone is not conducting the car maker oil test sequence which cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per oil tested, you're just guessing.
> 
> My advice is use a VW approved oil and you will know that the chemistry is correct for your VW engine. Anything else is the blind leading the clueless...


In addition to my VWs I have a Lotus Elise. Last summer at a factory-sponsored track day, the sponsoring dealer introduced himself to the participants and than turned the drivers' meeting over to a couple of Lotus factory guys.

The one who was the "tech guy" introduces them both and then asked, "Has anyone switched to Royal Purple motor oil?". One guy raises his hand, and is told that at the end of the meeting, the sponsoring dealer will change his oil and filter at no charge, and he will not be permitted on track until the change is performed. The other one mentions that he doesn't even want the car to leave the facility until the oil is changed. 

Everyone cracked up and said, "Really-you're serious?". The tech guy nods, "Yup. And we're not going to waste any time discussing it." Apparently someone took their new $80k car in for the mandatory 1000 mile service, went home, and filled it with Royal Purple. An owner who was there heard the story, and that something very bad had happened later, from a tech at the dealer who had recently serviced his own car. The story had made its rounds through the dealer network, but nobody was talking.

We were all referred to the "list of approved lubricants in the owners' manual". That's good enough for me to keep using Mobil, Castrol, and Shell synthetics in my cars.


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## TheBossQ (Aug 15, 2009)

brian81 said:


> In addition to my VWs I have a Lotus Elise. Last summer at a factory-sponsored track day, the sponsoring dealer introduced himself to the participants and than turned the drivers' meeting over to a couple of Lotus factory guys.
> 
> The one who was the "tech guy" introduces them both and then asked, "Has anyone switched to Royal Purple motor oil?". One guy raises his hand, and is told that at the end of the meeting, the sponsoring dealer will change his oil and filter at no charge, and he will not be permitted on track until the change is performed. The other one mentions that he doesn't even want the car to leave the facility until the oil is changed.
> 
> ...


You seem to have very well informed, first hand ... and completely vague knowledge of the "incident". Stories like this are lame. And they don't do anything to further a technical discussion.

I don't doubt it happened or what you heard and saw, but unless you have a detailed, first hand account of said incident ... it's really just a cool story, bro.


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## sky88s (Sep 10, 2010)

Mr.Ribbit said:


> I have a 97 jetta 2.0 with 140k miles that I drive rough on occasion. my friend swears by royal purple every 3k miles but he drives an 87 rx7 and thats almost 10bucks a quart. if it'll do what he says then I'm willing to fork over the dough to protect my car. I have been searching the tex and other sites for consumer info but I have been unsuccessfull, any info would be appreciated, thanks in advance.


 :thumbup: 

its good that he swears by it..i do i have ran royal in all my cars.. 

1990 Mazda Rx7 GTU 
2006 Toyota IST 
1992 240sx Coupe (gear oil as well) 

one thing we learn is that if its good it aint cheap..no way in hell can castrol compare to mobile one and no way can mobile one compare to royal..thats just the bottom line..i have regained lost power in all my cars after switching..maybe not so much as an increase which can never happen just by switching oils but since you got some miles on your car..youll definitely notice the power come back..still somewhat scared to use it in the VW..but maybe one of these days when I need to change oils..since i just purchased mines..also fully synthetic tends to last longer too..so you dont necessarily need to do it every 3000, i drove at times til i got to 5000.. 



pturner67 said:


> just run mobil1 0w40 or castrol syntec 0w30...seriously, it's NOT going to make a difference...especially if you change your oil every 3k miles...you could even use less expensive valvoline or havoline 5w30 synthetic (or non) and it wouldn't matter
> 
> for the 2.0 engine at 140k miles, you are best off just running a non-synthetic mobil, castrol, or penzoil and keeping it changed every 3-5k miles...again, it won't matter


 :thumbdown: 

sorry but your wrong


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## gehr (Jan 28, 2004)

This thread is full of LMFAO :laugh:


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

Seriously. 

I happened to have RP 15w-40 in right now. I got a gallon for $10 and it was sitting around waiting for a use. 

I buy good oils on rebate and stash them until I have a use for them. The Valvoline Racing was 2:1 at AutoZone. Edge was really cheap, I got a ton of Pennzoil Platinum when it was freebate, same for SynPower. They all work fine. I don't care about brands, but some brands do have certain products that are unique, like German Syntec, Mobil 1 High Miles is pretty special, Rotella Synth has a lot of merit for $4 a quart. Guys paying $8 a quart fail to understand that their oil will NEVER out preform 2 changes of Rotella in ANY parameter. 

I'll spend the time to talk it out with good members, but the clown party is always in full effect when oil is the subject. 

fwiw, M1 10w-30 HM and Rotella are close to the same visc between +20f and +40f. When you get below that, both are kind of thick, making the Mobil 1 5w-30 High Miles very attractive. It has HT/HS of 3.4cP, VW 502 (A3) spec requires 3.5cP, so it does ok there. Most light 5w-30s have low HT/HS of 2.9cP for comparison. 

I do like to tweek for seasons, and I do 3 changes a year, winter, summer and fall. Well, the Mobil 1 Hi-Miles line is PERFECT for that. 5w-30, 10w-40 and 10w-30. 

Guys can go w/5w-40 all year, but it is really thick near zero f and kills gas mileage during short trips, esp in winter. Otherwise, it's fine. 

I'll be doing a UOA of thin Edge 5w-30 this winter. If it's good, I'll run it again next winter, but the next UOA might not be for a while. I totally trust the Mobil 1 HM, but still may pull a UOA on it. Anybody who's into it should be doing UOAs.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

Here's some old FSI data. I'm not really relying on it for anything, but some may want to look it over...


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## gehr (Jan 28, 2004)

Are you guys this interested in what you eat and how well you are doing or is it just your engines............you guys must be absolute health freaks others wise! And I hope you are!:thumbup:  


I don't get what's so mythical and magical here. I use Mobil 1 0W40 and change it every 5000 miles or sooner, if I'm at the track a bunch. I got a heap load of miles on 3 engines and compression is perfect, what am I not understanding, that oil is like a religion here?!?! :screwy:


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## TechMeister (Jan 7, 2008)

Oil is a religion for many people...  BTW, don't forget the factory engineers are all in a conspiracy to have your engine wear out at 50,001 miles so you'll buy a new car. :banghead:


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## gehr (Jan 28, 2004)

I almost feel bad for keeping my cars as long as I do...........almost! 

I think VW probably has the best reputation for cars with high miles and I don't mean the American version of high miles, 150,000 miles is just getting broken-in for VW, NA cars makers it's just broken! :thumbup: :laugh:


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## piston (Oct 17, 2008)

TechMeister said:


> Oil is a religion for many people...  BTW, don't forget the factory engineers are all in a conspiracy to have your engine wear out at 50,001 miles so you'll buy a new car. :banghead:


 Engineers design and build to specifications. 
It doesn't mean they get to build the best or look for the interest of the owner/end user/customer. 
The company gives them specs and they meet them with in tolerance.


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

Sorry but it does make a difference!!!! I just recently switched from MOBIL 1 to 5w30 royal purple and omg! I also did royal purple trani fluid too  

First thing I noticed about the royal purple is that it completely got rid of the horrible smell coming out of the pcv. Before I would get out of my car smelling like a frickin engine but now there's no smell at all. I believe royal purple is above vw standard so it's safe to use. For me and my 125k mile Vr, it was worth it just because the smell is gone! No more headaches on long drives


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## TechMeister (Jan 7, 2008)

This is the problem with people who have no technical knowledge of the subject matter... they reach completely baseless conclusions and cling to them for dear life. Technical ignorance is truely bliss for some folks who don't want to be confused by facts that disagree with their beliefs. This is why the U.S. is considered by many to be one of the more technically illiterate western cultures and a haven for snakeoil purveyors. It's really a pity that some people chose to be technically ignorant when they have one of the best tools in the world to aid their learning. People will read and believe ad hype like it's the gospel but not invest any effort at all in learning the facts on a technical subject.


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## AudiJunkie (Jun 19, 2009)

Mr.Ribbit said:


> I have a 97 jetta 2.0 with 140k miles that I drive rough on occasion. my friend swears by royal purple every 3k miles but he drives an 87 rx7 and thats almost 10bucks a quart. if it'll do what he says then I'm willing to fork over the dough to protect my car. I have been searching the tex and other sites for consumer info but I have been unsuccessfull, any info would be appreciated, thanks in advance.


 
You friend is clueless. 

Firstly, 2.Slo is as easy on oil as you can get. If synth would be of any benefit, it wouldn't be over 3k miles and it won't be Royal Purple. Without reading the other posts here....a few grades of RP are ok, but the 30 weights are a waste. ftr- I ran RP 15w-40 HD as the 2nd oil change in my new 2.0 TSI, only because I got a gallon for $10 and it was in the summer. 

You friend should just pick a dino or high miles oil and run it 5k. He's doing zero favours to his engine or wallet with that retarded service plan.


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

I would normally run thicker oil but it's winter here in Colorado and it gets below freezing almost every night. Yesterday I washed my car in 40degF windy temps; soo much fun! My lifters seem quieter now with the royal purple


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

TechMeister will be happy to know that I changed my oil today with Mobil1 0W-40. Winter is coming and Advance Auto had a 50% off sale.


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## AudiJunkie (Jun 19, 2009)

There's a few M1 0w-40 UOAs in TSI in here, if you're interested.... 



















imo, there are better choices for TSI, as M1 typically does not deal with fuel dilution well. Volatility being the #1 parameter to consider. In this aspect, SynPower is VERY good, with iirc 6% weight loss over the ASTM NOWACK test. 

But you are right, Techmister would approve...


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

Probably makes no difference, but my motor is FSI.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*dyno's measure torque*



TechMeister said:


> Engine dynos measure actual engine torque/HP as in REAL power, as in SAE/DIN torque/HP, where as chassis dynos are a poorly controlled exercise in frustration and use a bunch of fudge factors resulting in completely meaningless data which is almost as bad as BUTT dynos which have NO data what so ever.
> 
> BTW, no one cares about "*break* hp"... If it's broken it's broken. LOL  WHP like "break hp" and BUTT dyno HP is pretty worthless.


 hp= torque x rpm divided by 5250


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## AudiJunkie (Jun 19, 2009)

jmj said:


> Probably makes no difference, but my motor is FSI.


 I meant FSI, doh. I even looked at your year. I have a TSI and was doing too many posts in a row. Accuracy counts, sorry


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## My Big (Dec 26, 2010)

I'd just use Castrol GTX, since that's what's recommended for our cars.


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## Auto Union (Dec 25, 2010)

GTX has changed formulas more times than I can count. It has the same additive package as Mobil Clean, with sodium.

It does have good volatility though.


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