# Best pads and Rotors for the Money



## ugafan (Jul 27, 2008)

I am not putting the car on the track would just like nice cross-drilled and slotted brakes(whichever) and above average brake pads to throw on the MKV R. Thanks for the advice guys and or ladies.


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## clarkma5 (Mar 2, 2002)

The best rotors for the money aren't slotted or drilled, is the honest truth. Drills and slots are supposedly there to relieve the film of gas that comes off of hot brake pads and forms a low-friction cushion between the surface of the rotor and the surface of the pad; the reality is that formulations in brake pad materials in the last twenty years have reduced this gas by 90+% and have rendered slotted or drilled rotors as an aesthetic option, not a performance option. If anything, slots and holes lead to increased brake pad wear, higher likelihood of rotor warp (I've experienced it first hand at the 2011 Fastivus track day riding shotgun in someone's MkIV R32...over the course of a few laps, his slotted rotors went from smooth to warped enough to be garbage; post-session inspection showed they visibly warped at the slot lines) and higher likelihood of cracking and failure around holes as well. What's more, depending on the pattern of holes around the face of the rotor, you'll develop uneven wear across the brake pad surface, actually reducing the area of pad-to-rotor surface contact area over time. Only the best (usually patented) hole patterns avoid this issue, Porsche's proprietary hole pattern being one I know of for sure. The half-slotted/half-drilled rotors are the worst because the holes are placed in a geometrically symmetrical way on the rotor face, not in a hole pattern that is best for the life of the pad...purely "for looks" and honestly a garbage choice.

Brembo plain rotor OEM replacements are the most expensive direct-OEM replacement rotor but are, IMO, worth it (I put 80,000 miles including several track days on my 11.3" Brembo plains and they held up very nicely). ECS is selling Genuine VW/Audi rotors for $190 a front pair which are probably your best bet (OEM = Brembos, at least on my GTI...whatever they use, it's not a bad disc at all). Getting a disc with curved vanes instead of straight vanes should help with disc cooling and longetivity, as a general rule.

As for pads, you'll get a lot of different opinions on that. I like my Hawk HPS a lot, I know people who adore their Ferodo DS2000s and DS2500s. You're going to hear rather mixed things about EBC Greenstuffs but there are a lot of people that like those too. Porterfield is a very reputable brand though I'm not sure if they offer anything that's especially street focused or if they tend to just market to HPDE/Autocross/Road Race use. I came to the conclusion a few years ago that Mintex is kinda cheap and not that great.


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## c0r3y.af (Oct 8, 2009)

^Some good info there. I mostly agree with the info above about the rotors.

In terms of pads, I also vote for Hawk HPS or EBC GreenStuff. I've ran both and love them.


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## OddJobb (Nov 6, 2004)

Get EBC Red Stuffs, not Green Stuffs. The Red's will give you better stopping power with MUCH less brake dust.

Sent from my HTC stone tablet and chisel.


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## ugafan (Jul 27, 2008)

thanks for everyone's help. Where would be the best place to buy the EBC redstuff pads from. i.e... amazon, ebay, ecs tuning. Once again, I thank everyone for their advice and input


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## c0r3y.af (Oct 8, 2009)

I usually buy them from ECSTuning. You could try Amazon or eBay and save $15-$20 or so, but make sure the part numbers are the same.


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## AEGTI3913 (May 13, 2010)

*Pads and Rotors for my AE GTI - Spirited daily driving & track days*

Has anyone used ECS's Geomet slotted rotors? 

I had Autotech slotted with Mintex pads many years ago and found that they were decent for spirited daily driving and occasional track day use. I found that the slots really helped in cold weather believe it or not. The stock rotors would sometimes cause a weird lack-of-brakes on initial braking after some time on the highway in cold/wet new england weather. I think it might have been a condition where a thin film of ice formed between the pad and rotor. By adding slots on the rotors, this scary condition was gone.

Keeping this in mind, I think I want to get slotted rotors again, but noticed that Autotech only lists slotted & drilled. I don't want drilled due to warping issues. Then I found ECS's slotted only rotors.

I'm also leaning in an EBC (Red?) direction this time around, but was looking for advice.

I've been tracking the car in time trials and last season cooked my brakes and went all-four-off because of it. This was on ATE/Zimmerman flat rotors and pads. I really want a setup I don't have to worry about overheating on the track, but can also daily drive with reasonable performance. It's a balance.

I'm not trying to go for the cheap route here. I don't mind spending money on good brakes.

Any suggestions guys? Much appreciate any ideas.:thumbup:


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## c0r3y.af (Oct 8, 2009)

I had Geomet front/rear rotors in my B5 Audi. They're quality rotors for sure, but they felt very heavy to me. I didn't compare weights with stock, however, so maybe it was just me. No issues with them, however, and they performed great until I sold the car.


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## AEGTI3913 (May 13, 2010)

c0r3y.af said:


> I had Geomet front/rear rotors in my B5 Audi. They're quality rotors for sure, but they felt very heavy to me. I didn't compare weights with stock, however, so maybe it was just me. No issues with them, however, and they performed great until I sold the car.


Talked to ESC thru webchat: They do not have weight specs for either stock or the slotted geomet rotors. They said that their rotors were "very close to the weight of stock". I don't have too much confidence in that response.


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## AEGTI3913 (May 13, 2010)

*Brake Choices*

Looking around online, the choices keep growing, only making a buying decision more difficult. 

So far, it seems like rotor considerations might be: ECS / Racing Brake / Stoptech / Brembo ?

I like that the Racing Brake site : http://www.racingbrake.com/GOLF-GTI-337-ED-20th-Anniv-FRONT-02-03-p/90781-111-1760.htm

Has anyone had any experience with these rotors?

As far as pads go: Hawk HPS / EBC Red / EBC Green / Ferodo DS2500 / Mintex Blue ?


I'm not sure, but I'm leaning in a Racing Brake rotor, EBC Green direction… anyone have input?? Many thanks.


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## OddJobb (Nov 6, 2004)

If you track or Auto-X your car you do not want EBC Green Stuffs (they are no better than OEM pads). 

If you want slotted rotors get the EBC USR slotted rotors matched with the EBC Red Stuff pads. 

The part #'s are USR930 & USR931. 

Remember: you have AUDI TT brakes on your 20th, so you should also be looking at rotors that fit the Audi TT.


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## 180dan (Apr 4, 2011)

I have ecs rotors and they're starting to rust. That geomet stuff doesn't work as well as advertised. Not bad for the price the however. If I could do it again, Adams makes a nice rotor and I like my Akebonos pads for $45 front. 

http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/vol...front-beetle-jetta-golf-tt-tt-quattro-eur687a

http://www.adamsrotors.com/18449/0/0/63/aud-mk1tt-1998-2007-audi-tt.html


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## AEGTI3913 (May 13, 2010)

OddJobb said:


> If you track or Auto-X your car you do not want EBC Green Stuffs (they are no better than OEM pads).
> 
> If you want slotted rotors get the EBC USR slotted rotors matched with the EBC Red Stuff pads.
> 
> ...


Has anyone used EBC Red pads? Are they ok on the street? Decent initial bite in cold weather? I'm in New England.


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## OddJobb (Nov 6, 2004)

I run them on my GLI. Work well in winter here in upstate SC, although our winters don't compare. It still gets in low 30-40s for high in the daytime occasionally. No problems at all.


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

The Bruce @ MkV.com pointed this out:

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149461 l.P.
Compare RS3/TT-RS brakes to the S3 ones:


OEM:

stock 312mm - 14.5kg
TT-S 340mm - 20kg
S3/R32 345mm - 21.5kg
TT-RS 370mm - 17kg
RS4/RS6 365mm - 17kg
RS6 V10 390mm - 21.5kg


Non OEM:

VW-R 352x32mm - 12kg
K-Sport 356x32mm - 12.25kg
Brembo 355x32mm - 13kg

(caliper + rotor + pads + bolts + adapter)

Ultimately unsprung weight is an important factor on the track. For the everyday driver it's a non issue. If you can inexpensively upgrade with oem parts and greatly improve your stopping factor, do it. Nothing beats oem for ease & availability.


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## c0r3y.af (Oct 8, 2009)

AEGTI3913 said:


> Has anyone used EBC Red pads? Are they ok on the street? Decent initial bite in cold weather? I'm in New England.





OddJobb said:


> I run them on my GLI. Work well in winter here in upstate SC, although our winters don't compare. It still gets in low 30-40s for high in the daytime occasionally. No problems at all.


I ran them for years on my Audi. They're excellent. I'm in RI and had zero issues with them in the cold.


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

AEGTI3913 said:


> Talked to ESC thru webchat: They do not have weight specs for either stock or the slotted geomet rotors. They said that their rotors were "very close to the weight of stock". I don't have too much confidence in that response.


Running Geomet rotors on the Corrado g60 and 2.7 allroad 6SP M. All are x drilled and purchased from ECS. The rears on the AR were upgraded from the stock solid 255x10 to the 4.2 allroad 269x22 vented. It turns out they didn't have any coated 4.2 rotors so decided to upgrade to a rear BBK. The 4.2 AR is the only Audi that uses a specific offset and a one off rear sized disc. There were some snags with offsets in their web page descriptions. They happily exchanged the incorrect sized discs. Not only did they make it right they paid for shipping the parts back to them AND gave the sale price on the 300x22 (B5/B6) rear Geomet rotors. ECS ships these for free and has them on sale at least once a year during XMAS time.

As far as weight goes, there's no difference unless that 2oz of coating on the discs was keeping your R18 from reaching it's optimal 205mph speed at Le Mans. Other vendors sell the same similar rotors without the Geomet trade name. They're listed as "Coated Zimmerman" or "Coated Meyle" rotors. The bottom line is that they're still superior quality, coated rotors. They're still in perfect condition after a year of keeping the car outside and two blocks from the beach. 

There's really no other reason to have them coated except for ascetics. Neither car is on the track or hits salted roads that often. Both cars are getting treated to powder coated calipers and clear powder over the color. This is a time consuming and difficult task. The outcome is a long term, ZERO maintenance solution for rust free x drilled rotors with painted calipers that go back to new, perfect condition with soap and water.

The smaller AR 4.2 (269x22) discs are on top of the S4 B5/B6 (300x22) rear brakes. Imagine how small the oe AR 2.7 (255x10) discs would look. The larger discs below go with the BBK kit from Apikol P/N 09A04107. After the upgrade it will allow the car to use the larger, cheaper, always available S4 rotors with AR 4.2/Passat W8 aluminum calipers that fill up the factory 17" rims. The front discs on the 4.2 & 2.7 AR both have 321x30 rotors. When it's all done it will have the same size rotors on the back as front


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## livid_mk4GLI (Jun 14, 2014)

Great info here on rotor and pad options, what about calipers? My calipers are fried on my 03 vr6 GLI.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## clarkma5 (Mar 2, 2002)

I mentioned it up above but thought I'd expand on my experience with the Hawk HPSs, since I've recently learned that their longetivity has been pretty remarkable.

I installed them on the front at 13k miles after I burned up the stockers at the track, and did the rears around 70k or so when the original pads were getting thin. Car's at 95,000 miles now and I've done 8 trackdays since the car was new...that translates to 82,000 miles and 6 trackdays on the fronts and 25,000 miles and 3 trackdays on the rears. I still have over half the pad left, don't have squealing issues on the street, they work well when cold (maybe that first stop on a cold winter day requires a little more pedal pressure, but that's it) and I have had much less fade issues on track, and definitely haven't burnt out any pads like I did with the OEM ones. I also think they dust less than stock pads did. Overall, would highly recommend them as a street pad that functions in regular road use, in high performance backroad use, and copes well with track use too.

Though I'll also say I'm eyeing the Ferodo DS2500 for the front as the car gets more performance-oriented in its mission and I continue to increase my emphasis on track performance and de-emphasize my street use. But as the OP said, he's not looking to track it, and the HPS has been a great street pad that will cope well with a track day if he ever changes his mind!


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## livid_mk4GLI (Jun 14, 2014)

clarkma5 said:


> I mentioned it up above but thought I'd expand on my experience with the Hawk HPSs, since I've recently learned that their longetivity has been pretty remarkable.
> 
> I installed them on the front at 13k miles after I burned up the stockers at the track, and did the rears around 70k or so when the original pads were getting thin. Car's at 95,000 miles now and I've done 8 trackdays since the car was new...that translates to 82,000 miles and 6 trackdays on the fronts and 25,000 miles and 3 trackdays on the rears. I still have over half the pad left, don't have squealing issues on the street, they work well when cold (maybe that first stop on a cold winter day requires a little more pedal pressure, but that's it) and I have had much less fade issues on track, and definitely haven't burnt out any pads like I did with the OEM ones. I also think they dust less than stock pads did. Overall, would highly recommend them as a street pad that functions in regular road use, in high performance backroad use, and copes well with track use too.
> 
> Though I'll also say I'm eyeing the Ferodo DS2500 for the front as the car gets more performance-oriented in its mission and I continue to increase my emphasis on track performance and de-emphasize my street use. But as the OP said, he's not looking to track it, and the HPS has been a great street pad that will cope well with a track day if he ever changes his mind!


Was this directed towards me? Great info, and I'll definitely look into them.. but I'm really interested in some calipers. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## clarkma5 (Mar 2, 2002)

Was directed at the OP.

Curious about how your calipers are "fried". That seems an odd thing to happen. Are your seals shot? Can they be rebuilt? What do you want out of a new caliper? When it comes to calipers, I believe you can do the single piston sliding stock calipers (there are different calipers for the TDI/2.0 cars than the 1.8T/VR6 calipers to go with the different suspension knuckles, but you have a VR6 so you don't have to worry about those TDI/2.0 calipers), the dual piston sliding R32 calipers, and then you get into the Porsche monobock calipers...the 4-piston Boxster calipers are popular, and some guys go crazy and run the 6-piston Cayenne ones but that's overkill!

I imagine there are also calipers from companies like Stoptech or Wilwood out there but I don't know anything about them.


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## livid_mk4GLI (Jun 14, 2014)

clarkma5 said:


> Was directed at the OP.
> 
> Curious about how your calipers are "fried". That seems an odd thing to happen. Are your seals shot? Can they be rebuilt? What do you want out of a new caliper? When it comes to calipers, I believe you can do the single piston sliding stock calipers (there are different calipers for the TDI/2.0 cars than the 1.8T/VR6 calipers to go with the different suspension knuckles, but you have a VR6 so you don't have to worry about those TDI/2.0 calipers), the dual piston sliding R32 calipers, and then you get into the Porsche monobock calipers...the 4-piston Boxster calipers are popular, and some guys go crazy and run the 6-piston Cayenne ones but that's overkill!
> 
> I imagine there are also calipers from companies like Stoptech or Wilwood out there but I don't know anything about them.


I just saved it from the previous owner who beat the **** out of it. Rear left caliper is locked up, front two were ground down past the pads -_-

My goal is more stopping power, and more efficient stopping than stock. There is a full set of used r32 brakes calipers, pads, rotors and lines for sale here where I'm on craigslist for $400. Is the r32 brakes better than my GLI?

probably not doing work, via mobile.


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## clarkma5 (Mar 2, 2002)

Calipers aren't too crazy to rebuild...new slide pins and seals should fix that locked up rear and running the pads super thin should destroy rotors and pads but not really the calipers. You can also put in stiffeners into the original calipers and get a pedal feel upgrade http://www.tyrolsport.com/brakes/tyrolsport-brake-caliper-stiffening-kit-for-vw/audi/

Like I said, the R32 calipers in the front are 2 pistons instead of 1...I'm not sure if they require 13.1" discs or if they can work with 11.3 or 12.3" rotors. It's still a sliding caliper so fundamentally you wouldn't be getting much benefit over the original single piston ones in terms of caliper flex and stuff...you'd have to go to the Porsche caliper to fix that.

The limiting factor in stopping power on the first stop is basically always the tires you have on your car. The limiting factor in stopping power on subsequent stops is the ability of the pad compound, fluid formulation, and rotor mass to absorb and dispel heat. Caliper upgrades will impact your pedal feel and how even your pad wear is when you're really pounding on them. You can run R32 sized rotors with your OEM calipers or you can run them with R32 calipers.

The R32 brakes over your 24v GLI brakes are 13.1" front instead of 11.3" and the calipers are 2 piston, like I said. The lines and pads are probably not very different. Think you're best off getting a quality pad on a rebuilt caliper with those caliper stiffeners, stainless steel lines, and good fluid like Motul RBF600. Maybe the 12.3" TT rotor upgrade. IMO. Not like you wouldn't have a totally fine braking setup doing the R32 thing (I'm not 100% sure if you need new suspension knuckles or not) I'm just saying it's not going to be amazingly better than what you could do on 11.3" or 12.3" rotors with your single piston calipers.


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## livid_mk4GLI (Jun 14, 2014)

Thanks for all the info, probably saved me a lot of time and money.

probably not doing work, via mobile.


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

The Audi Girling 60 pistons are 45 & 40 mm and 13lb with the brackets ea side. 
The VW R32 single piston brakes are 54mm and 11 lb *without* the brackets ea side # (Centric 146.60009 ).

If you decide to go with the dual piston R32 calipers 1J0 615 123 E (left) 1J0 614 123 E (right) they are the same one used on the 95-01 BMW 750il. The rebuild parts are the same of course but half the cost (BMW part # 34111163316) @ $40 vs. VW @ $80.
The BMW caliper part #'s are 34111163317/8. 

Have a go at this link on the BimmerForums. They guy even had them powder coated R32 blue! They're about $47 rebuilt per side
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1895063-DIY-gt-750-Brake-upgrade-rebuild

I did not check on the compatibility of the brake brackets though. BMW part # is 34111163319/20. VW part is 1J0615125/1J0615125B pictured in jumbotron size.


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## clarkma5 (Mar 2, 2002)

:thumbup: pete, had no idea about the BMW-R32 connection!


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## livid_mk4GLI (Jun 14, 2014)

That's super legit! I'm going to look into it.

probably not doing work, via mobile.


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

The facts are in ... same caliper as the Bimmer 750 il but the brackets are different
Below, that twin piston R32/TT/750 il caliper on the BMW 750 il bracket. The BMW and VAG cars *DO NOT share* the same bracket.

*34111163319 Bimmer front, left*









Right is *1J0615126 & 5B TT 3.2-R32 front with twin 44mm pistons * for 334x32 rotors (1ZT set up)
Left is brackets for DE Calipers with the single 54mm piston 288x25 mm (1LC set up).









More caliper = more rotor = more weight


mdt said:


> This is the difference between the [SUB](late)[/SUB] R32 334mm brakes and the 288mm [SUB](early R32)[/SUB] brakes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thumbing through all this saw that you can get a SET of *red powder coated* Mk IV calipers and carriers for $91.29 INCLUDING the core charge. You'll still need your Mk II or Mk III brake brackets since Mk IV brackets only work on the Mk IV chassis. It's a damn good buy. Can't tell if they have the 38 or the 41mm piston though. Regardless, Audi TT 3.2Q rear brakes ready to bolt on, with the clips and warranty. Sell the p/c brackets to the Mk IV guys and recoup your costs.

http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,car...4,d,2004_AUDI_TT_QUATTRO_3.2L_V6_Caliper.html









Except for the Mk IV rear (aluminum) brakes both of the above options (including girling 60) are heavier than the stock Girling 54's. Those 944 turbo rear brakes getting run as fronts on the Corrado keep coming up because they're alloy, 4 piston and weigh 7.1lb.


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## CorradoSLC (Jan 20, 2000)

Just finished upgrading to the 20th/late GLI setup on my '03 GLI, along with Tyrolsport front bushings and stainless lines, and HP+ front/HPS rear. I'm coming from stock rotors and DS2500 F&R, and had 2 events/ 4 track days on this setup. Couple of observations:

- I loved the DS2500s on my old MK3, but not so much on the GLI. They did pretty well on the track and were generally livable on the street, although dirty.
- IMO, it's important to understand the weight range in the Mk4s. A 1.8t is ~2900lbs, while the 24v GLI is ~3150. I never felt the stock setup was sufficient on the GLI, but someone with a GTI might feel differently. If you are on the track with an instructor, add another 175-250lbs
- The HP+ are completely outrageous on the street. They squeal and howl like nothing I've ever heard, and I'm likely going to have to take them out
- On the other hand, this setup will engage ABS on flat dry pavement with Michelin SuperSports. Definitely never experienced anything like this with the DS2500s
- I used Optimal coated rotors from GAP. Seem like a good option for the price.
- My calipers were purchased used. I couldn't get the rear bleeders open, only to find the bleeders were horribly cross-threaded. So new rear calipers were needed. In the future I'll probably use a socket to break the bleeders before using a wrench for the actual bleeding. And obviously if you are having trouble threading in the bleeders, something is very wrong

I'd be interested in trying the 2500s again on my Corrado, but for now I'm a bit down on them.


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## clarkma5 (Mar 2, 2002)

Good point about weight CorradoSLC...I have a stripper GTI 1.8T and it weighs in about 2750 lbs. with full interior and a half tank of gas (no driver/passengers) according to the emissions testing place. I'm sure it helps the brakes out a lot.

Really would love your full impressions of the Tyrolsport Caliper Stiffeners. HPSs are a great choice in the rear of most any MkIV setup IMO.


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## CorradoSLC (Jan 20, 2000)

It's hard to say, honestly. I changed pretty much everything at one time. But it is easy to see how they would help. For the street, i'm not sure I would bother. You'll definitely need to clean and lube them periodically. I think the new design includes covers that should help. I bought mine a while ago and didn't have them. But it wouldn't take more than a few minutes to pull the pins and clean and lube them. I'd say they are definitely worth a shot.


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## livid_mk4GLI (Jun 14, 2014)

This should be a sticky. As a VW newb this thread helped a lot.


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## graeme86 (Jun 27, 2003)

petethepug said:


> The facts are in ... same caliper as the Bimmer 750 il but the brackets are different
> Below, that twin piston R32/TT/750 il caliper on the BMW 750 il bracket. The BMW and VAG cars *DO NOT share* the same bracket.
> 
> *34111163319 Bimmer front, left*
> ...


Annual bump for a clarification. :wave:

Can you confirm 100% that R32/BMW caliper actually has twin pistons of the same size as you state above _("twin 44mm pistons")_?

The casting has 2FN42/32 on it which implies the sizes of the pistons fitted are 42mm and 32 mm.

BMW caliper has same 2FN42/32 casting numbers on it as well.

Certainly in photos I have found these two pistons look to be pretty much the same size visually.

Especially this photo I found!


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## LARKIN777 (Jul 23, 2016)

*r32 calipers*

Yes they are exactly the same calipers , both pistons are the same size , I recently completely rebuilt a set of R32 calipers using BMW rebuild kit , cost me less than half compared to VW parts .


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