# 16V + TD05-20G or TD05-16G



## NAVI51 (Aug 18, 2008)

I'm currently researching options to know what would be the best to use on a 16V. I know that turbo charging takes a whole lot more that just droping a turbo on an engine, it takes good internals, good cooling, proper spark advance, proper fuel injection, and proper gasoline, just to name a few things that make a good combination. 

I once came across a post of a guy claiming to make about 220hp on a 16V with Megasquirt with a Garrett turbo, however he said that one of his friends was running about the same settings on Megasquirt and using a TD05-16G turbocharger (mainly used on Lancer Evos) and this car was makin about 270hp at the wheels. He also stated that they were running stock internals and both tubos were setted at about 10-12 psi. 

I currently have a disassambled 1.8L 16v, integrated engineering beam rods, a ported and polished cylinder head, G60 pistons, some other few parts and currently I'm gathering money to buy all of the MS stuff that I will need, but I'm looking to turbocharge my engine once I put it together. Do you guys see any advantage using either the TD05-20G or the TD05-16G over the usual GT-25 and so on? What are your toughts on this combination?


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

search 'thepaintcanman'


----------



## NAVI51 (Aug 18, 2008)

Thank you for the help man, almost 350hp from a 16V is very inspiring


----------



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

The evo3 16g turbo is capable of producing 440whp. There is a dsm guy that's getting like 460whp at 40psi. 7cm housing is something similar to a garrett .48ar.


----------



## NAVI51 (Aug 18, 2008)

Probably using 40psi is way too much but it seems that using a TD05 turbo is a good idea as long as I can take care of the pre-ignition, internals' heat, and internals' strenght


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

try more like 400whp. Hes has updated his thread. Also I believe he lifted his head and blew coolant all over the dyno. 

Patt post up that dyno sheet with the 16g 40 psi spike, that **** is funny


----------



## NAVI51 (Aug 18, 2008)

I didn't get to see that, could you post up the link please?


----------



## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

I just got my 16v running on a 16g with digi one and at 10lbs she moves, like hell. Spool time is nice, no lag at all but now my bottom end crapped out so im dropping in a built aba. Ive talked to thepaintcanman for a long time before getting mine together he sold me on the TDO5 and he plans to run the TDO's for awhile. His dyno sheets should be proof enough, 16g all the way:thumbup:


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I think I posted the 16g dyno in the holset thread, maybe towards the later pages. 

Stussy if that 16g isn't enough for you, check out fp performance. They have some retarded upgrades that will give you crazy performance using a tdo5 style housing.


----------



## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

Thanks man ill look into them, fist i need to rebuild a block that will last  along with a trans before it gets some serious power.


----------



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> try more like 400whp. Hes has updated his thread. Also I believe he lifted his head and blew coolant all over the dyno.
> 
> Patt post up that dyno sheet with the 16g 40 psi spike, that **** is funny


 
Yeah I got mixed up with what's "normal" and what's "extreme" :laugh: 

You mean this guy: 









-95 piston 6 bolt stock rods 
-Extrude hone intake 
-EVOIII 16g ported to creep 
-EVOIII o2 ported to 3in out let 
-FP Race exhaust mani (gained 7hp over ported EVO III mani) 
-1200 cc inj, E98 fuel one 255hp fuel pump 
-DSM Link MAFT combo 3in blow through 
-ETS 3in FMIC 2.5in piping 
-40psi spike holding 26psi out the top 
-HKS 272 cams 
-Modded stock 1g BOV 

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dyno-talk/338802-456whp-evo-iii-16g.html


----------



## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

torque monster


----------



## NAVI51 (Aug 18, 2008)

Those numbers are pretty amazing, I'm pretty sure that with MS, rods, G60 pistons, and all of the things that were mentioned before it can be easy to achieve 350hp which is what I'm aiming for when I get to put all of my money together


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

yes that one pat.

Dont bother with g60 pistons, you will have like 7:1 compression, this aint 1976 anymore. Keep in mind folks that car is running nearly 100% ethanol, you will probably need some c16 to do that.


----------



## boost_addict (Dec 4, 2009)

DO not use the g60 pistons it will be tooo low comp


----------



## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

Either way that's impressive from that turbo. That site has some neat **** for turbo upgrades and a brand new evo 3 16g for only 600$ that's a steal.


----------



## NAVI51 (Aug 18, 2008)

I was thinking of using the G60 pistons with the VF Engineering 16V rods since their longer and tougher than the G60 rods; I was calculating about 8.0:1 - 8.5:1. The other option could be to use the 1.8T pistons, with the VF Engineering rods, since they don't have a dish as deep as the G60 pistons, and I've read that they can stand upt to 600hp. My original plan was to use the 81mm Audi 5000 turbo pistons with piston oilers, I've read they are very tough as well and they are excellent for high boost aplications, however I haven't been able to find any . What do you guys recommend?


----------



## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

NAVI51 said:


> I was thinking of using the G60 pistons with the VF Engineering 16V rods since their longer and tougher than the G60 rods; I was calculating about 8.0:1 - 8.5:1. The other option could be to use the 1.8T pistons, with the VF Engineering rods, since they don't have a dish as deep as the G60 pistons, and I've read that they can stand upt to 600hp. My original plan was to use the 81mm Audi 5000 turbo pistons with piston oilers, I've read they are very tough as well and they are excellent for high boost aplications, however I haven't been able to find any . What do you guys recommend?


Use JE or similar pistons, they are only like 500 usd

Alternatively if you are running a 1,8L use the Audi S2/S4/S6 2,2t 20v pistons 

The Audi 5 cyl is basicly a 16v with an extra cylinder


----------



## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

You can get a nice piston/rod combo for under 1000$ from Integrated Engineering http://www.intengineering.com/20L-8v-ABA-JE-Pistons-p9457160.html most likely the combo ill be going with in my aba/16v turbo. Im sure if you shop around you could find these pistons and rods cheaper.


----------



## 2mAn (Oct 15, 2006)

i wouldnt get excited by the numbers the DSM guys have. compare apples to apples, or buy a DSM if you want those stupid #s 

im going be running an ABA with the twin scroll 16G. its going in a mk1 so i dont need much power, but im still getting a different HG to drop the CR, ARP rod bolts and Head Studs should hold it together. then a cam and off i go. just trying to decide management as that will make the biggest difference. might go simple with digi, or maybe motronic. trying to keep it cheap so im trying to avoid SEM


----------



## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

Dont see a need for a cam, especially if your not looking to make big power, if you really want one than nothing bigger than the 270s from what ive seen.


----------



## 2mAn (Oct 15, 2006)

272 is the plan :thumbup:


----------



## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

There's just better places to spend that money that's all I'm saying plenty of ppl are making north of 300whp on stock 16v cams. Either way should be fun in a bunny wish I had one.:thumbup:


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

somebody should run this http://store.forcedperformance.net/...ct_Code=49178-04600&Category_Code=Turbo-Mitsu

a friend of mine has 1 one his car(non vw), it's sick! especially for the price (cheaper than a t3/t4)


----------



## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

same site you can get an evo 3 16g for around the same price :thumbup:


----------



## 2mAn (Oct 15, 2006)

if your talking about me spending money in places other than cams, remember this is a single cam, so it will need it and they also dont cost much so why not. i might skip the rod bolts though since id end up doing a lot more because of it


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

What were your power goals again?
You didn't state, so how are we deciding?

Keep in mind, you won't reach the same power potential of a 4g63 motor, but you will still make decent power 300+whp with either turbo, evo 8 and 9 turbo's are good choices too


----------



## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

GTijoejoe said:


> What were your power goals again?
> You didn't state, so how are we deciding?
> 
> Keep in mind, you won't reach the same power potential of a 4g63 motor, but you will still make decent power 300+whp with either turbo, evo 8 and 9 turbo's are good choices too


A NA 4g63 stock motor is about the same VE as a 16v VW motor. The results at the same boost will be pretty similar.


----------



## thepaintcanman (Feb 26, 2009)

this was at 17 psi. later broke 400whp w 22psi. no need to run 40psi something. ignore a/f graph



















Evo3 16G. Built full 9A even the head is 9A.


----------



## 2mAn (Oct 15, 2006)

TIGninja said:


> A NA 4g63 stock motor is about the same VE as a 16v VW motor. The results at the same boost will be pretty similar.


im probably going to make mine a ABA 16v down the road, but for now im going with a simple ABA turbo setup. i want to put a proper 16v head on there when i do it

edit: sorry, i feel im derailing this thread. 

16v!!! wooooo :laugh:eace:


----------



## E U RO C R A P 87 (Oct 3, 2007)

*WOOW!!!*

very impresive more specs on your car it also looks nice!! TIA!:beer:


----------



## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

2mAn said:


> im probably going to make mine a ABA 16v down the road, but for now im going with a simple ABA turbo setup. i want to put a proper 16v head on there when i do it
> 
> edit: sorry, i feel im derailing this thread.
> 
> 16v!!! wooooo :laugh:eace:


What for? The 8v can easily make more power then your driveline can handle. It will take 5lbs more boost to get you there but thats about it.


----------



## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

I was under the impression that you were getting cams for a 16v, my bad.


----------



## NAVI51 (Aug 18, 2008)

2mAn said:


> im probably going to make mine a ABA 16v down the road, but for now im going with a simple ABA turbo setup. i want to put a proper 16v head on there when i do it
> 
> edit: sorry, i feel im derailing this thread.
> 
> 16v!!! wooooo :laugh:eace:


Indeed you are derailing it and stealing it. Just kidding man, the more helpful and broader info we can get to achieve nice goals on 16V engines the better, eventhough your questions at this point might be more specific to 8v's the info that has been provided is nice :thumbup:


----------



## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Well the 4G63 in the elantra made 124hp in the 1.8l form or about the same hp as the 1.8l 16v. That means these motors have the same VE stock and would produce the same HP modified.


----------



## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

I think thepaintcanman has proved enough even with their turbo we make more whp per cylinder at the same psi. The dsm that put down that power was running 41psi thepaintcanman ran half that.


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

His car is also a 1.9, not that it should make much of a difference.

PSI is just a measure of resistance in a intake manifold.


----------



## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

just imagine if his motor was built to stand up to 40+ psi what it would put down.


----------



## thepaintcanman (Feb 26, 2009)

We've seen no power difference between an ABA and a 9A. 9A is also lighter


----------



## thepaintcanman (Feb 26, 2009)

Dave, that's the old car. This one is 9A bored 40 over.

It's is built to withstand 40+ but no need to run it. I race and track the car. HPDE's at least once a month and I daily her. Reliability over hp # charts.

She's .40 over wiesco
Scat rods
Supertech oversized valve train
265 cams
Lightened everything pulleys
Boost factory SRI
Kinetic Manifold and downpipe
MHI Evo3 16G
SNS custom tune on Digi1

the jist


----------



## DemonRally (Dec 8, 2003)

what kind of gearing do you run with it?


----------



## thepaintcanman (Feb 26, 2009)

O2A ATB code. Open diff. Will go Wavetrac soon.


----------



## DemonRally (Dec 8, 2003)

That's cool, the diff will help for sure. We are running an 02A with a 4.20 R&P in the race car with mostly EHA (02J 1.8T) gearing, makes for some nice tight gear changes with our setup.

I always liked the idea of running a 16G, where do you start spooling at rpm wise and where is your peak torque roughly?


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Werent you running different cams ? Whats the reason for the change?


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

TIGninja said:


> Well the 4G63 in the elantra made 124hp in the 1.8l form or about the same hp as the 1.8l 16v. That means these motors have the same VE stock and would produce the same HP modified.


I think your logic is rough and general. I'm sure they are not the "same"motor, different cam specs, manifolds etc, different tuning objectives I'm sure....compared to the 4g63 in an evo. In reality I'm sure the 16V will not make the same power.


----------



## thepaintcanman (Feb 26, 2009)

Same cams as always.


----------



## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

GTijoejoe said:


> I think your logic is rough and general. I'm sure they are not the "same"motor, different cam specs, manifolds etc, different tuning objectives I'm sure....compared to the 4g63 in an evo. In reality I'm sure the 16V will not make the same power.


But they do. With similar turbos at similar boost they make similar power.


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

TIGninja said:


> But they do. With similar turbos at similar boost they make similar power.


I just haven't seen it often in my experience. On stock evo9 turbo I've seen 350-380awhp from 22-26psi on 4g63's and I normally never see that power out of a 16v on anything less than a 30r.... maybe thats just what ppl like to use...

Either way, I feel I could reach 500whp on my evo much easier than if I used a 16v in my GTi


----------



## thepaintcanman (Feb 26, 2009)

Evo's run 19 psi stock to get 300whp. Sme of our customers are running 40 - 50psi to get 600hp. I will never do that. Motor's built for it but even 350whp is too much for fwd.


----------



## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

thepaintcanman said:


> Evo's run 19 psi stock to get 300whp. Sme of our customers are running 40 - 50psi to get 600hp. I will never do that. Motor's built for it but even 350whp is too much for fwd.


Hey you beat me to it.LOL wrong quote.

Evotrip? 

Its right in this thread.


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

thepaintcanman said:


> Evo's run 19 psi stock to get 300whp.


Of course, keep in mind this is 'stock' with extremely rich fueling, conservative timing etc.. you know this.... if you make a 16v t you would have 3" exhaust etc...and the rest of the system to boot, now your not comparing to a stock 4g63


----------



## tdirs1 (Dec 29, 2007)

I use an evo 9 turbo on my 2.1 8v xflow not really that special motor just hbeams je pistons,x flow beetle head 1 mm larger exhaust valves cat cam turbo grind cam,1 off exhaust manifold,1 off plenum intake,502cc accel injectors(95% duty)motor gives 350 hp 1.5 bar boost 360 ftlbs torque.Turbo is the best full boost by 3k on a 16v this turbo would be perfect if i run the boost to 2 bar a get some compressor stall just as i back off the throttle.


----------



## thepaintcanman (Feb 26, 2009)

loved this set up so much i'm doing it on 2 1.8t's and a 2.0 tsi. Going bigger on the jetta soon too.


----------



## Gryger1973 (Feb 15, 2010)

*Kinetic parts*

HAve anybody take photos at Golf 2 16v where is EVO 3 turbo + Kinetic manifold and downpipe ?


----------

