# Edmunds S3 First Drive, Hints At Possible Manual Tranny



## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

http://www.edmunds.com/audi/s3/2015/road-test.html



> Still, we prefer to rev-match our own downshifts. That's why we're clinging to the hope that Audi will eventually export a conventional manual-shift S3 sedan like the one we tried later in the day. It's a six-speed gearbox, of course, and the pedal setup suited us perfectly. The shifter is trimmed in knurled metal. We're smitten.
> 
> Mind you, Audi officials have made no promises about the manual coming to America. At the event, Filip Brabec, director of product management, advised journalists, "We're not ready to make an announcement on it." That sounds more like yes than no to us.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

August 2014. Son of a bitch.

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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

“Audi will offer two different front seat designs. We've only sampled the optional S line seat (with manual adjustments), which we're told offers more serious lateral bolstering than the standard seat. This seat is comfy and supportive, but not the least bit confining and should meet with the approval of commuters and larger drivers alike."

This is concerning. It sounds like we will get a base seat and a sport seat, but not the super sport seat. Damnit, Audi- don't use all this extra time to water the f***ing car down. 

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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

“ Going around turns in the 2015 Audi S3 sedan is fun regardless of the transmission. Compared to the A3, the S3 has a 25mm (0.98 inch) lower ride height, and our test car has the optional magnetic adaptive dampers, which will be offered on U.S. models in combination with a 19-inch wheel/summer tire package.”

That's cool, at least, I guess.

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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

I don't know if this warrants any optimism or not, but when I had emailed the A3 product manager regarding a manual on the unconfirmed RS3, she responded this way, _"Offering two drivetrain options in a limited volume model is becoming more and more difficult due to the significant increase in costs to offer both. The TT RS was offered only with a six-speed manual transmission here in the US, and we had countless customers contacting our offices to request that the S tronic version be offered in its place. I personally found this very disappointing so can empathize with your frustration. I can assure you that I am not the only manual transmission enthusiast at Audi, and we are working tirelessly to include manual transmissions in more business cases. As an example, to date we have been successful in our pursuit on S4 and S5 and are able to offer the six-speed manual standard here in the US, even though the German market eliminated the six-speed manual variant starting in model year 2013."

_I really took that to mean that there would likely not be any manuals for Audi going forward. But perhaps it could mean that they might be open to the idea of a manual in the US. Perhaps an online petition might influence them?


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

VeeDubDriver said:


> [/COLOR][/I]I really took that to mean that there would likely not be any manuals for Audi going forward. But perhaps it could mean that they might be open to the idea of a manual in the US. Perhaps an online petition might influence them?


Sadly, I think that's the direction things are headed. I wouldn't be surprised if the B9 A4/S4 are automatic only at this point in the game. 

I have discussed the manual transmission option with two product planners at AoA in depth. My recommendations were two-fold:

1. Make the 6MT a no-cost-change option like BMW has moved to. You pay the same for the stick as you do the automatic.
2. Make the 6MT a sold-order-only option and not force it on the dealerships. This is how the Australian market has moved because dealers pushed back on being forced to carry manual transmissions.

Dealers complain because manual transmission buyers are much pickier about the specification for their car. There isn't a 'goldilocks' package that will help move the unit.

The saving grace for us manual transmission enthusiasts will be if the United States finally passes the current trade agreement that's been years in the making. One of the big provisions creates a reciprocal safety agreement between the US and EU so that certification in one country will suffice for the other. The other big provision would eliminate the tariffs currently in place (or at least significantly reduce them), especially for cars built here and sold in the EU. This would have probably gone a long way toward getting Audi to build its new factory here in the US instead of Mexico. Audi has already said that if this bill passes the chances of us getting things like the A6/RS6 Avant and other goodies goes up exponentially since the costs of introducing those models drops to virtually nothing.

Right now the negotiations are proceeding apace, but it looks like there's no real hope of getting a signed deal within the next year. Two to three years is more likely, and if I had to guess there will be 'phase in' provisions that will extend the implementation by a number of additional years. 

Baby steps, but I think we're getting there.


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## MaX PL (Apr 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> “Audi will offer two different front seat designs. We've only sampled the optional S line seat (with manual adjustments), which we're told offers more serious lateral bolstering than the standard seat. This seat is comfy and supportive, but not the least bit confining and should meet with the approval of commuters and larger drivers alike."
> 
> This is concerning. It sounds like we will get a base seat and a sport seat, but not the super sport seat. Damnit, Audi- don't use all this extra time to water the f***ing car down.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


i'm hoping that edmunds is simply ingnorant of the seat differences and come two weeks from now, we'll be seeing S3s on display at LA with the super sport seats.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

VeeDubDriver said:


> http://www.edmunds.com/audi/s3/2015/road-test.html


Unfortunately I wasn't on the launch so don't want to read too much into the quote. Even still, I know that they labored over the choice whether to offer MT6 on S3 sedan. At the reveal in NY last spring, Keogh almost sounded like he wasn't sure what the final outcome had been and as if the debate was literally still going (and NOT that he didn't know what he was talking about).

My guess is that they may eventually offer it. Could they hold it for a year or two to keep offering new things, maybe. Or, could growing volumes (as expected) also help make this an easier decision? I guess which theory depends on whether you're a glass half empty or half full person, but I know Filip well and when he says stuff like that it makes me think he's hinting.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

I think this is saying something. These are the *top *comments on Audi USA's own facebook reveal of the A3/S3 earlier this year. I didnt have to search or filter through the comments, they are at the top of the list with the most upratings.

Not "Oh beautiful car" or "I love this and want to buy it" or even "I hate it, it looks boring"...


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

MaX PL said:


> i'm hoping that edmunds is simply ingnorant of the seat differences and come two weeks from now, we'll be seeing S3s on display at LA with the super sport seats.


I think I'm going to park my ass in cars in LA that have equipment that isn't going to be seen in the US cars, and that's a crying damn shame. For the car to have been revealed at NY in March and still be up to nine months out at the time it's shown at LA eight months later, well... I'm growing increasingly frustrated. I understand why we're where we are- I really do. That doesn't make it less frustrating.

Will it ease my mind one bit if the S3 in LA has the super sport seats? Not one bit, unfortunately.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Reading all of this is depressing...

While I'm not in the market for an S3 (due to price), or for the MT (my wife won't drive a stick and we swap cars often enough that its S-tronic or nothing) I do start to worry about decontenting or unavailability of features (despite the high level of standard equipment we are _supposedly_ in line to get in the U.S.

My other potential choice, a MK VII GTI/GTD/R already seems to be a potential victim of that thought process if they don't offer the larger infotainment/NAV screen in the U.S.

Starting to wonder what other make/models will see significant updates in the next 18 months that might be an option for me. Its to large of a purchase (for a long term) just to settle because its brand X.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

As mentioned, I wasn't on that launch so it'll be a while before we have some original photos and driving impressions. I have gotten my hands though on the launch materials and I've added them to an "In Detail" post on the front page. This includes new photos (like CGI of the car in Ara Blue Crystal Effect) and video footage from the launch location in Monaco. You can find all that here:

http://fourtitude.com/news/Audi_News_1/detail-audi-s3-sedan/


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

Watering down the cars for the US seems to be a common VW/Audi thing, so I make a conscious effort not to get too excited. I was hoping the MQB structure was going to change things but we'll wait and see.


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## T1no (Sep 22, 2012)

awww what the heck happen to q1 2014

i hope that date is wrong. i need a carrrr


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

T1no said:


> awww what the heck happen to q1 2014
> 
> i hope that date is wrong. i need a carrrr


14Q1 was but a thin glimmer of hope based on something George heard much earlier in the year. With what we know now, I'm confident assuming it had about zero chance of actually happening.


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## T1no (Sep 22, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> 14Q1 was but a thin glimmer of hope based on something George heard much earlier in the year. With what we know now, I'm confident assuming it had about zero chance of actually happening.


welp. i totaled my a3 last june. looks like im going to have to wait a little way longer lol.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> 14Q1 was but a thin glimmer of hope based on something George heard much earlier in the year. With what we know now, I'm confident assuming it had about zero chance of actually happening.


Audi themselves on their facebook page in summer 2012 said the A3 sedan was going to be released before the end of that year. Now _that _was a laugh!


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> Audi themselves on their facebook page in summer 2012 said the A3 sedan was going to be released before the end of that year. Now _that _was a laugh!


Hah! Stop it, you're making my sides hurt!


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Watering downs cars for America isn't a VAG thing, it's a US government thing. But again, I would say that with 34 months straight of record sales in the US, I think they have a pretty good grasp on what works and what doesn't and if they are looking to get 20k A3's out in a year, it's going to have to be a much better car than the old one as those numbers weren't even close to that and the vast majority of sales came from California.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

MANUAL TRANSMISSION????????? BRING IT!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5MfDn_27X0


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## EZ (Jun 22, 1999)

> The rear seats, meanwhile, are mainly intended for occasional use. The bench itself is comfortable, but anyone taller than 5 feet 10 will probably find headroom and/or legroom a little tight. In comparison, the GTI's backseat is roomier


 Hopefully they are referring to the headroom more than the legroom.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

T1no said:


> awww what the heck happen to q1 2014
> 
> i hope that date is wrong. i need a carrrr


We've got a few other threads where this has come up, but from what I have been hearing in Europe there are some real supply-side issues. Audi is having a hard time meeting customer demand for all A3 models at the moment and if the anecdotes are true, Gyor is running flat out at the moment to both meet initial stock requirements and to also fulfill existing sold orders. Based on that, there's really no way to push up the timetable at all. 

Marketers are cagey about release dates: By saying "Q1 2014" that could be anywhere between January 1 and March 31. By saying "spring 2014" that could be anywhere from March through June. 

I'd bet April-May is the target window at this point.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> Unfortunately I wasn't on the launch so don't want to read too much into the quote. Even still, I know that they labored over the choice whether to offer MT6 on S3 sedan. At the reveal in NY last spring, Keogh almost sounded like he wasn't sure what the final outcome had been and as if the debate was literally still going (and NOT that he didn't know what he was talking about).
> 
> My guess is that they may eventually offer it. Could they hold it for a year or two to keep offering new things, maybe. Or, could growing volumes (as expected) also help make this an easier decision? I guess which theory depends on whether you're a glass half empty or half full person, but I know Filip well and when he says stuff like that it makes me think he's hinting.


And this jives with conversations I have had as well where I've been told: "we haven't ruled anything out for the future and are always looking at the business case for the manual transmission".

I have to imagine that if sales targets are met, and are as good as they would like, the chances of us getting the manual transmission improve greatly. 

Now, assuming we have a delayed, or second year introduction, the question is whether I can afford to wait that long.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

I noticed this in the article: "Note that the 2015 Audi S3's engine is not just a tuned version of the 220-hp 2.0 TFSI engine offered in all-wheel-drive A3 sedans."

Does this essentially confirm the Quattro along with that A3 brochure that had the 2.0T stating this as well. Sounds pretty sweet. 1/2 you guys are all about the S3, but my wallet is excited about the A3 Quattro.

B.


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## T1no (Sep 22, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> We've got a few other threads where this has come up, but from what I have been hearing in Europe there are some real supply-side issues. Audi is having a hard time meeting customer demand for all A3 models at the moment and if the anecdotes are true, Gyor is running flat out at the moment to both meet initial stock requirements and to also fulfill existing sold orders. Based on that, there's really no way to push up the timetable at all.
> 
> Marketers are cagey about release dates: By saying "Q1 2014" that could be anywhere between January 1 and March 31. By saying "spring 2014" that could be anywhere from March through June.
> 
> I'd bet April-May is the target window at this point.


yea, i asked fourtitude on facebook and they respond by spring.
april-may sounds good


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Well, that's just George really, so yeah... 

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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I've now seen Jalopnik and R+T reviews come across my inbox. They're both largely raving mad positive. I think this wait is going to be well worth it.

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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> I've now seen Jalopnik and R+T reviews come across my inbox. They're both largely raving mad positive. I think this wait is going to be well worth it.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-audi-s3-sedan-first-drive-review , Car And Driver as well. They are predicting a base price of $42k though . I thought Audi said $39k. Also they said Drive Select with magnetic shocks will be optional. Now i thought Audi had said earlier back at New York that Drive Select would be standard and the Magnetic dampers would be a separate option...


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

BrutusA3 said:


> Does this essentially confirm the Quattro along with that A3 brochure that had the 2.0T stating this as well. Sounds pretty sweet. 1/2 you guys are all about the S3, but my wallet is excited about the A3 Quattro.
> 
> B.


I'm with you on the A3 and a happy wallet.


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## macscac (May 15, 2011)

A couple of pics I took while in Munich for A3 launch training




































And just because












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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

nice, any more info you can tell us on the A3/S3 that hasnt already been discussed?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

caliatenza said:


> http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-audi-s3-sedan-first-drive-review , Car And Driver as well. They are predicting a base price of $42k though . I thought Audi said $39k. Also they said Drive Select with magnetic shocks will be optional. Now i thought Audi had said earlier back at New York that Drive Select would be standard and the Magnetic dampers would be a separate option...


Yep, got that one this morning. They at least seem to believe we will get the option of the super sport seats, so that's something.

I wouldn't read too much into the way they described the drive select option. Unless something major has changed, we know that's supposed to be standard, just without suspension control if the car isn't equipped with magnetic dampers.

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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> Yep, got that one this morning. They at least seem to believe we will get the option of the super sport seats, so that's something.
> 
> I wouldn't read too much into the way they described the drive select option. Unless something major has changed, we know that's supposed to be standard, just without suspension control if the car isn't equipped with magnetic dampers.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Drive Select is actually a very inexpensive option in most European markets right now. I think that VW/Audi is pushing in the direction of making it standard equipment over the next few years as a differentiating factor for their cars.


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## lotuselan (Apr 9, 2008)

I'll defend Audi's decision, if they can only sell a small percentage of manuals then it doesn't make business sense for them to offer it. Still I don't care about their business only what I want and I want a manual gearbox.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I was looking back through the article George posted in the 4T homepage, and I was focusing specifically on two photos:



















It's little details such as the shape of the lower B-pillar trim that make the difference in the interior of a car for me. The dash is the same way leading into the door panels in this car. You can tell that someone really took the time to think about the finer details, an approach very much favorable to the oft-used coming together of the individual designs of the dash department and the door panel department with no prior communication between the two.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

i hope they will test a S3, at least the Sedan, that doesnt have the mag ride suspension. I want to know what exactly i would be giving up if it wasnt specced.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> Sadly, I think that's the direction things are headed. I wouldn't be surprised if the B9 A4/S4 are automatic only at this point in the game.
> 
> I have discussed the manual transmission option with two product planners at AoA in depth. My recommendations were two-fold:
> 
> ...


OR, and I know this wont win me any fans, offer the manual in the highest, most profitable trim level only.


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## macscac (May 15, 2011)

Audi will not be bringing a manual option to the US for model year 15

Also, here is a real life pic of these amazing seats. Unknown if these will be offered in the IS yet


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

BrutusA3 said:


> I noticed this in the article: "Note that the 2015 Audi S3's engine is not just a tuned version of the 220-hp 2.0 TFSI engine offered in all-wheel-drive A3 sedans."
> 
> Does this essentially confirm the Quattro along with that A3 brochure that had the 2.0T stating this as well. Sounds pretty sweet. 1/2 you guys are all about the S3, but my wallet is excited about the A3 Quattro.
> 
> B.


Definitely not. The S3's engine was always a beefed up version of the std 2.0T engine, whether it was the old belt drive or this new chain drive version. Now the S3 engine even has different parts like camshaft, valves and cylinders, differentiating itself even more than the stock engine.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

macscac said:


> Audi will not be bringing a manual option to the US for model year 15
> 
> Also, here is a real life pic of these amazing seats. Unknown if these will be offered in the IS yet


That lower bolster already looks kind of assed up, but I'll equate that to the number of ins and outs that car has already seen. Otherwise, want NAO!


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> I was looking back through the article George posted in the 4T homepage, and I was focusing specifically on two photos:
> 
> It's little details such as the shape of the lower B-pillar trim that make the difference in the interior of a car for me. The dash is the same way leading into the door panels in this car. You can tell that someone really took the time to think about the finer details, an approach very much favorable to the oft-used coming together of the individual designs of the dash department and the door panel department with no prior communication between the two.


I'm with Dan on this one. Those kinds of details like the cutouts in the B-pillar are the kinds of things that distinguish a car like this. In the case of the A3, hollowing out the door panels helps to create the sense of more width in the cabin. I'm a nerd - I pay attention to those things. My poor wife just shakes her head and laughs.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> I was looking back through the article George posted in the 4T homepage, and I was focusing specifically on two photos:
> 
> It's little details such as the shape of the lower B-pillar trim that make the difference in the interior of a car for me. The dash is the same way leading into the door panels in this car. You can tell that someone really took the time to think about the finer details, an approach very much favorable to the oft-used coming together of the individual designs of the dash department and the door panel department with no prior communication between the two.


I'm with Dan on this one. Those kinds of details like the cutouts in the B-pillar are the kinds of things that distinguish a car like this. In the case of the A3, hollowing out the door panels helps to create the sense of more width in the cabin. I'm a nerd - I pay attention to those things. My poor wife just shakes her head and laughs.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Travis Grundke said:


> I'm with Dan on this one. Those kinds of details like the cutouts in the B-pillar are the kinds of things that distinguish a car like this. In the case of the A3, hollowing out the door panels helps to create the sense of more width in the cabin. I'm a nerd - I pay attention to those things. My poor wife just shakes her head and laughs.


Agreed. The attention to that level of detail is pretty incredible, especially considering the price point. Very well thought out.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

macscac said:


> A couple of pics I took while in Munich for A3 launch training


Ah, that Sportback.....why do we only get the e-tron version


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## brennok (Jun 5, 2007)

Dan Halen said:


> That lower bolster already looks kind of assed up, but I'll equate that to the number of ins and outs that car has already seen. Otherwise, want NAO!


I hope they end up being optional. I don't know if I could deal with the lower bolster. It looks fairly tight.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

brennok said:


> I hope they end up being optional. I don't know if I could deal with the lower bolster. It looks fairly tight.


My understanding is that they're nearly the same profile as the S-line sport seats. Neither is nearly as snug as the top sport seat in my GLI if the S4 seats, which I'm told are about the same, are an indication.


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## brennok (Jun 5, 2007)

I haven't looked at the GLI since the MKIV 1.8T. I might have to go sit in the S4 to see how they feel. As long as the seats are more like the MKV R32 rather than the MKIV R32 I will be fine with them. 

Maybe it is just the stitching, but the picture reminds me of the MKIV R32 seats.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

brennok said:


> I haven't looked at the GLI since the MKIV 1.8T. I might have to go sit in the S4 to see how they feel. As long as the seats are more like the MKV R32 rather than the MKIV R32 I will be fine with them.
> 
> Maybe it is just the stitching, but the picture reminds me of the MKIV R32 seats.


MkV R32 seats are the same seats I have in my GLI. I agree- go try out an S4; I didn't feel that the S4 seats were nearly as "sporty" as the MkV R32 seats. Supposedly the "super sport" seats are largely the same across the board (S4, S5, S6), only difference being the cover design.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

Travis Grundke said:


> I'm with Dan on this one. Those kinds of details like the cutouts in the B-pillar are the kinds of things that distinguish a car like this. In the case of the A3, hollowing out the door panels helps to create the sense of more width in the cabin. I'm a nerd - I pay attention to those things. My poor wife just shakes her head and laughs.


I thought it was to give more room for one's leg to move to the side to. Do they expect the rear passenger to straddle the front seat? Or maybe for when 3 are seating abreast, the outer passenger could move their leg more toward the outside.


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