# TT RS: Audi Hill Start Assist WTF?



## OldKenzo (Aug 14, 2012)

Has anyone noticed a problem with the TT RS "Audi Hill Start Assist" feature being too "sticky"? I live in San Francisco which has it's share of serious hills. I'm seeing this issue consistently on my brand new TT RS: 

1. The car is stopped on a hill, my right foot on the brake, left down foot on the clutch, stick in 1st gear. 
2. When I apply pressure on the gas and let the clutch in, the brake does not let go as advertised. 
3. I end up giving it more gas and less clutch, and suddenly the "Hill Start Assist" snaps off and I go shooting off way too fast into cars in front of me :banghead: The effect is quite terrifying actually. 

Having driven sticks my entire life, I have to imagine this is a bug, not a feature. My 2008 BMW M3 (also 6spd-MT) had this same feature but as soon as you hit the gas, the brake released as expected. 

I can't figure out if it is the brake or clutch sensor which releases the hill-assist brake. Anyone know or heard of this problem?


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## NamJa (Jul 31, 2012)

I've seen some complaints about the Hill Assist but I have to say it has worked flawlessly for me. I haven't been on a San Francisco/Seattle sized hill but some reasonably steep inclines that would have normally had me using the e-brake. I don't have any resistance to moving forward; rather it feels like the back wheels are chocked such that the car doesn't roll backwards at all. Not sure what to do but I can tell you that mine doesn't feel like that. 

Best of luck and have fun with the car!


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## Koa1 (Feb 21, 2012)

Same thing happens with mine. I HATE hill start assist. Never had it on prior cars but i really wish i could turn it off on my TTRS. I've become better at using it though. I now take my foot off the brake without letting out the clutch or giving it gas, wait the couple seconds it takes for the brake to release, and then do my normal thing. Its a pain in the ass, is virtually impossible to do right in sport mode, and i find myself watching the lights as mine gets ready to turn green just so i can time my takeoff. Complete crap that we have to put up with this nonsense! But, as i have, you'll get better over time.


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## bsmack (Oct 16, 2008)

I do notice this sometimes. Probably about 10-15% of the time hill start assist is activated the car will do this.


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## crackkills (Mar 10, 2007)

shut it off via VAG. Pretty simple


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Have info on how to disable via VAG? I don't think I've seen that posted yet


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Have info on how to disable via VAG? I don't think I've seen that posted yet


 He's probably just _assuming_ you can disable it via VCDS...


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

I'm with NamJa on this one. I've never had a problem with Hill Assist. It's always worked perfectly and I've been stuck on some really steep hills in the Alps. I use it on the way home every day, too and it's never been sticky for me. Touching the gas pedal causes it to immediately release. I think you should take it in to the dealer for an inspection. 

As for using Sport Mode with Hill Assist... That's definitely tricky. I usually turn off Sport when I'm in that situation. 

- Jeremy -


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

At least on my US TT-RS, hill start assist releases when the clutch is released, not when you apply throttle. It takes some getting used to, but is very usable. It also works the same way in my 2011 6spd GTI. It isn't hard to get the hang of it. Find a moderate incline with no other traffic and play around with the hill start assist until you get the feeling for when the brakes release. 

Releasing the hill holding just on throttle application doesn't make a lot of sense, now that I took a moment to think it through. It would be too easy to bump the throttle and not be ready to catch it with the clutch or brakes. 


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

hightechrdn said:


> At least on my US TT-RS, hill start assist releases when the clutch is released, not when you apply throttle. It takes some getting used to, but is very usable. It also works the same way in my 2011 6spd GTI. It isn't hard to get the hang of it. Find a moderate incline with no other traffic and play around with the hill start assist until you get the feeling for when the brakes release.
> 
> Releasing the hill holding just on throttle application doesn't make a lot of sense, now that I took a moment to think it through. It would be too easy to bump the throttle and not be ready to catch it with the clutch or brakes.
> 
> ...


 Mine's US spec. Mine releases on gas. I know this because my driveway is an incline and, every morning, the Hill Assist is active and I can't roll backwards into the road. I tap the gas every day to release it and roll backward. Releasing the clutch may also release it, but I don't think I've ever tested it. 

- Jeremy -


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

my brake releases after about 1.5-2s after letting it go, regardless if i depress the clutch or push the gas, i can do neither of those things it will still release the brake after that time


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## J9277655 (Mar 1, 2011)

I too live in SF and have had to get used to the Hill Assist. I noticed that I can park on a hill, throw the car in neutral - the hill assist holds the car for 2-3 seconds and regardless of clutch/gas, the brakes let go. 

I've had the car for 3 months and getting used to it... The truth though is that I take the Presidio instead of the gnarly hills anyways!


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## RS Pilot (Aug 2, 2012)

tdi-bart said:


> my brake releases after about 1.5-2s after letting it go, regardless if i depress the clutch or push the gas, i can do neither of those things it will still release the brake after that time


 Same. I can't say that I was a huge fan of it the first few times it happened. I've got the timing down better of the time release of it, but haven't found a smooth way to release it (gas/clutch); I just wait it out (about 1.5-2.5 seconds)


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## NamJa (Jul 31, 2012)

That's weird how much variety there seems to be. On a hill I do exactly what I would do without it; keep the brake on and clutch depressed and then when I'm ready to go I quickly move from my foot from brake to throttle, stab the throttle a bit and release the clutch. In my car, the only thing I notice is that when I do that the car doesn't roll backwards at all, but there is no change from any other car in terms of getting it to move forward. Perhaps I'm just lucky!


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

I just tested in my driveway during lunch. These rules apply to my car: 

1. Hill Assist releases after 2-3 seconds of taking my foot off the brake pedal. No other pedals pressed or touched. 

2. Hill Assist releases immediately when foot is already off the brake (during 2-3 second window) and pressing the gas pedal. 

3. Hill Assist does not release upon depressing or releasing clutch pedal. 

4. Hold in clutch. Hold brake. Put car in 1st gear. Release brake. Press gas and let out clutch simultaneously. Car goes forward without rolling back. 

If your car doesn't operate like this, then I suggest you take it to the dealer. 

- Jeremy -


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## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

It's all in the timing. Hill assist is pretty much ubiquitous now on manual transmission cars, all of mine dating back to at least 2006 have had it. They're all slightly different in their release/action so once you get used to it, you will see its benefits. I have one incline on my way to work that I have to stop at almost every day. Clutch and brake pedals depressed, car in first gear. Light changes, let off brake, move right foot to throttle and "gently" start giving it gas, car moves away smoothly without stalling or rolling backwards. Give it too much gas, i.e. forcing the issue, and it either lurches or stalls (but I haven't done that since a week after I got the car.)


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## OldKenzo (Aug 14, 2012)

Wow, your experience is totally different from mine. I've had numerous experience on San Francisco hills in the three weeks I've owned the TT RS where I'm firmly on the gas with the clutch partially in and the brake just doesn't let go until the 2-3 second timer finishes and the brake snaps off. It's pretty obvious when the issue occurs because you can hear the engine revving and feel the clutch contact but the brakes are stuck in the Hill Assist death grip. I'll try playing with the Sport setting and see if this has any effect. Otherwise it's off the dealer to demo the issue (assuming I can find a single hill in Palo Alto CA)


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Never had any issues at all. 
It greatly depends on your style of driving apparently.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

OldKenzo said:


> Wow, your experience is totally different from mine. I've had numerous experience on San Francisco hills in the three weeks I've owned the TT RS where I'm firmly on the gas with the clutch partially in and the brake just doesn't let go until the 2-3 second timer finishes and the brake snaps off. It's pretty obvious when the issue occurs because you can hear the engine revving and feel the clutch contact but the brakes are stuck in the Hill Assist death grip. I'll try playing with the Sport setting and see if this has any effect. Otherwise it's off the dealer to demo the issue (assuming I can find a single hill in Palo Alto CA)


 the hill assist brakes arent strong enough to hold the car under power. 

Try it with fully releasing the clutch straight away and a bit of gas. 

TTRS clutch bite point is weird anyway


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## fourtunes (Sep 16, 2011)

I run into this problem intermittently. Every now and then, the hill assist feature refuses to disengage the brake for a full second or so after I've released the brake pedal, regardless of whether the gas pedal is depressed or not. 

Early on, this caused me to stall the TT-RS on the way into the parking garage at work a few times, even though there's no hill to speak of (there's a very slight incline leading up to the card reader). I never experienced anything like it with the 6MT S5 I owned prior to the TT-RS. 

But while it's annoying, it's a quirk I've gotten used to and learned to avoid most of the time.


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## fjork_duf (Jul 13, 2001)

The intrusiveness of the feature seems to be directly proportional to the incline. The steeper the hill the worst the effect of this feature is. 

I'd also like an option to disable it. Most people who have been driving stick for years would rather just use the e-brake on hills when needed. (As I do) I don't need the computer to do it for me.


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

Does using the e-brake override Hill Assist? I haven't tried this... 

- Jeremy -


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## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

I'll repeat myself. I'm pretty sure Hill Assist is on its way to becoming standard equipment on any new manual transmission cars (or what's left of them anyway) so you might as well get used to it. It also falls into the "safety net" category of programming that any car company that has it will not allow to be over-ridden easily. 
I've been driving almost exclusively manual cars for over 30 years and I don't get the big beef about it. Whenever I get into a new vehicle, I have to get a feel for its clutch, and its throttle response, etc, before I can consistently drive smoothly with it. This is no different, just a new feature to master with your skillset. I think Hill Assist does exactly what it's supposed to once you figure out how it reacts.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

mtbscoTT said:


> I'll repeat myself. I'm pretty sure Hill Assist is on its way to becoming standard equipment on any new manual transmission cars (or what's left of them anyway) so you might as well get used to it. It also falls into the "safety net" category of programming that any car company that has it will not allow to be over-ridden easily.
> I've been driving almost exclusively manual cars for over 30 years and I don't get the big beef about it. Whenever I get into a new vehicle, I have to get a feel for its clutch, and its throttle response, etc, before I can consistently drive smoothly with it. This is no different, just a new feature to master with your skillset. I think Hill Assist does exactly what it's supposed to once you figure out how it reacts.


 I dunno, my experience falls into the category of it sticking on for ~3 seconds regardless of what I do with gas/brake/clutch. If mine worked as others have mentioned, or was at least consistent in how it disengaged I'd love it. I drove a Z4M a couple of years back and that was transparent and worked great. On my RS it really gets in the way.


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## bluesun68 (Feb 1, 2012)

The only time I stall the car is when it's holding the brakes for me. I find that my normal application of gas is not enough to release the brake, but if I rev the engine higher it releases. Apparently Audi engineers really rev the engine before letting out the clutch. Not a bad idea with a tiny engine but I'm used to big engines where you can just ease of the clutch and go with a little gas.


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## NamJa (Jul 31, 2012)

Now that you all know that for a number of us it works perfectly and transparently, you might want to get it checked out. If anyone does get it repaired let us know!


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## mageus (Sep 1, 2004)

mtbscoTT said:


> . . . Hill assist is pretty much ubiquitous now on manual transmission cars . . . They're all slightly different in their release/action so once you get used to it . . .


 +1 

I think what this discussion has shown is that no one here really knows what triggers (and releases) hill assist. Likely, it's a complicated algorithm that is not solely based on clutch, brake, accelerator, or time. 

I've experienced consternation with the feature primarily because I let the clutch out and give gas fairly quickly and evenly. There is still a built in pause to the release of Hill Hold, no matter how small (probably not 2 seconds) that trips me up. I have to make a conscious effort to transition slower to not have the problem. The people who find it works perfectly likely take longer to transition the clutch/gas. 

Kenzo, I don't think your car is broken. Don't worry about it. 

Also, I haven't found a way to turn off Hill Hold in VAG-COM. Looks like we're stuck with it.


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## NY TDI (Mar 23, 2012)

bluesun68 said:


> The only time I stall the car is when it's holding the brakes for me. I find that my normal application of gas is not enough to release the brake, but if I rev the engine higher it releases. Apparently Audi engineers really rev the engine before letting out the clutch. Not a bad idea with a tiny engine but I'm used to big engines where you can just ease of the clutch and go with a little gas.


^^^I'm with you on this. I like to ease of the line by letting off the clutch, with very little gas. I've done it this way all my life. Now Audi is asking me to change the way I drive. The whole point of a manual, at least for me, is that I get to do it my way. With Hill Start Assist, Audi is making 6MT a bit less appealing for me. I understand that everyone has different driving habits, and that this is not an issue for some, but it irks me to see Audi take a one-size-fits-all approach to the way this function works.

Wish I could disable via VCDS...


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Supposedly you can adjust the rev level where the Hill Hold turns off via VCDS in the ABS controller module, selecting "light", "normal", or "heavy", but I haven't tried it yet. Will check it out this weekend.


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## illbillTS (Apr 11, 2006)

NY TDI said:


> Wish I could disable via VCDS...


Posted this on QW, http://forums.quattroworld.com/tt2/msgs/33661.phtml

locked out from selecting disable, but I'm much happier with disengage early. No more embarrassing stalling because of the hill assist!


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

Is the default "disengage late", I assume?

The trick is to give the throttle a little tap and as Hill Assist lets go, let out the clutch to grab the car. It isn't hard to do. If you fight it, you will stall the car on a regular basis. Took me a little while to figure it out, but I have an incline at the end of my driveway, so I have a chance to test it every time I leave in the TT-RS.

I will play around with the VAG-COM setting to see if "disengage early" makes it smoother to drive though.

Thanks for the info!


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## rockislandman (Jan 22, 2016)

Did you ever find this in VAGCOM? Wondering what the different setting did.


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## SconnieRoadie (Jan 15, 2016)

This is the only thing I really am frustrated with with my TTRS... :banghead: Except my inability not to kerb rash... :banghead::banghead: But that's more me than the car.


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## rockislandman (Jan 22, 2016)

My other pet peeve is that cruise control does not "kick-out" when you take the car out of gear (i.e. Downshifting from an offramp) this catches me off guard each spring as my GTI does kick out?!?


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## ZPrime (Mar 7, 2006)

rockislandman said:


> My other pet peeve is that cruise control does not "kick-out" when you take the car out of gear (i.e. Downshifting from an offramp) this catches me off guard each spring as my GTI does kick out?!?


What do you mean by "kick out"? It should cancel the cruise when you press the clutch pedal.


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## patrioTT (May 22, 2005)

*VCDS does have access to the Hill Holder, and a menu that includes "disable".. But it doesn't work*

You can set it to disengage sooner.. it's not perfect, but it is better:

For quicker disengagement of the hill holder it can be set to "early".. in "early" the hill holder releases the brakes the instant you touch the gas or clutch

VagCom:

1) select ABS (03)
2) select adaptation (10)
3) hit the drop down box "documented adaptation channels"
4) select "HHA"

a menu appears:

0 = disable HHA
1 = HHA normal
2 = HHA early
3 = HHA late

unfortunately "0 = disable" doesn't work.. the actual choices that do function:

0 = HHA normal (the default)
1 = HHA early 
2 = HHA late

Select 1


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## rockislandman (Jan 22, 2016)

Perfect. I assume this is fir mk2 TT RS.


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## rockislandman (Jan 22, 2016)

If I downshift from 6th to 3rd say to slow down (clutch is used), the car will re-accelerate back up to the setpoint for the cruise control (unless i tap the brake or manually cancel the cruise).


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## ZPrime (Mar 7, 2006)

rockislandman said:


> If I downshift from 6th to 3rd say to slow down (clutch is used), the car will re-accelerate back up to the setpoint for the cruise control (unless i tap the brake or manually cancel the cruise).


Woah, that's strange. Now I need to test that... In any other manual car I've ever driven, applying the clutch cancels cruise control just like hitting the brake.


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