# Routan Brake Issues - Again!?



## itisroutan (May 7, 2009)

Van is in again for brake issues. New front rotors at 4,000 miles and new rear rotors at 12,000. Now at 15,000 miles we need new both front and rear rotors. Right now call in with VWOA to see if they will cover it and stand by their product. Dealer said it's wear and tear and they will not cover it - cause could be that I drive with my foot on the brake.:screwy: VWOA rep let me know that it is a heavy vehicle.  Hard to believe that I could be on my 3rd set of rotors - all I want is to stop the van without the steering column shaking. Is that too much to ask!?


----------



## thedrowningman (Jul 16, 2004)

You know.... I thought I was immune to the brake issue on the Routan until about 3 hours ago.

Was on the freeway and had to brake somewhat hard for traffic. And there it was.... very noticeable shake of warped front rotors.

9300 miles on it.

I am super light on my brakes. Almost all of my driving is freeway driving. These rotors are clearly crap.

Looks like I get to play the new rotor game with VWOA now too.


----------



## Whataguy (Sep 5, 2003)

*Brakes AGAIN too*

My machine goes in the garage for a few problems next week. The rear right signal bulb blew and the signal indicator goes nuts when on - annoying. BUT the brakes are wobbling again, so they'll be rechecked too. 

I had the rotors resurfaced TWICE without replacement - at 2 and 3,000KM. Guess they are literally wearing down now - "they can only be resurfaced so much" I was told by the service manager, hinting at the next step, 6 months ago. For me as well, here comes the two strike pitch to replace them without cost... we'll see where that goes. I will certainly be adamant on getting free ones with only 16 KM (10,000 or so miles). Notwithstanding the brake pads having to suffer through it all.

Just thought I'd add it to the pile.


----------



## itisroutan (May 7, 2009)

*Still waiting...*

Nothing to update yet - VWOA called late afternoon yesterday and said they will be doing some fact finding on the case and get back to me. I am not a mechanic - maybe someone can post some ideas on what could be the mechanical cause. That would be greatly appreciated. Service manager's only thought is that I drive with my foot on the brake and that is the cause of it. 

From reading other forums I have found some possibilities: stuck caliper or slide pins, bad strut or ball joint, wheels out of balance, or ABS not working correctly. Not sure of quality of rotors they are using either.

I know a lot have posted about brake problems. Has anyone had a tech find a mechanical cause other than blaming it on driver error? Thanks for the help.


----------



## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

itisroutan said:


> Nothing to update yet - VWOA called late afternoon yesterday and said they will be doing some fact finding on the case and get back to me. I am not a mechanic - maybe someone can post some ideas on what could be the mechanical cause. That would be greatly appreciated. Service manager's only thought is that I drive with my foot on the brake and that is the cause of it.
> 
> From reading other forums I have found some possibilities: stuck caliper or slide pins, bad strut or ball joint, wheels out of balance, or ABS not working correctly. Not sure of quality of rotors they are using either.
> 
> I know a lot have posted about brake problems. Has anyone had a tech find a mechanical cause other than blaming it on driver error? Thanks for the help.




No need to search around of the cause. The cause is Sub-Standard, Cheap "Made in China" Rotors.


----------



## luckeydoug1 (Feb 11, 2001)

Unfortunately, this is nothing new for Chrysler. The problem of warped rotors goes back to at least the 70s. Their big cars (yeah, all cars were big back then, but I am talking about the huge cars like the New Yorkers, etc), were notorious for this problem. The rotors just weren't manufactured to take the amount of heat that was generated. My full size (B250) vans from the 80s suffered from this as well, but at least I usually got 25-30000 miles on a set before trouble set it. The best solution was to buy a good set of replacements when the originals went. I tried the resurfacing route a couple of times, but that was usually only good for another 5-10000 miles at best and they usually took out the new set of pads when the rotors warped again. None of the Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth mini vans have ever done well with rotors, either, but the problems seem to be even worse on the Routans (and I would guess their Chrysler sisters as well). Nearly every one of the Routans I test drove had this problem, even with near zero miles on them. The dealer thought the problem was from rust setting in from the vans sitting on the lot for extended periods of time. This is when VW was replacing the rotors without even trying to resurface them. 

To put this in perspective, I got just under 40000 miles on my first set of pads and rotors on my 2003 Eurovan (and the mechanic said the rotors were still good for another 10000 but I had them replaced anyway). My current set has gone over 40000 as well. The Routan may be a heavy vehicle, but the Eurovan is a heavy vehicle as well and most of the miles on our Eurovan have been with a heavy load of either passengers, cargo or both.


----------



## itisroutan (May 7, 2009)

Just got the van back this afternoon. VWOA covered the third set of rotors. Dealer's "service" not good at all, so I would insist on giving VWOA a call directly if you are experiencing problems. Brakes actually feel like they are working correctly. First time in...15,000 miles


----------



## Zipp_n (Mar 15, 2007)

My dealer covered the warped brakes and said it was either recalled or that VWOA knows it's a problem and it'll be covered. (I'm not sure if it'll ever get to recall levels.) My dealer called VWOA directly and got the low down on the issue. 

It took twice fo them to "catch it in the act" and I did a happy dance in the service bay when they said they got it to shake!


----------



## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

i was talking with a woman in my Neighborhood that has a 2009 T&C Limited. She told me that she got a letter from the Chrysler Group stating that they will replace the rotors and pad on all 2009+ Town and Country's. She also said that if you did it yourself, they will reimburse you to 100% less a 50 dollar fee. 

Sounds like a recall to me, and the Routan should not be far behind


----------



## haunted reality (Apr 18, 2001)

Zipp_n said:


> My dealer covered the warped brakes and said it was either recalled or that VWOA knows it's a problem and it'll be covered. (I'm not sure if it'll ever get to recall levels.) My dealer called VWOA directly and got the low down on the issue.
> 
> It took twice fo them to "catch it in the act" and I did a happy dance in the service bay when they said they got it to shake!


Mine's doing it again too, got an appointment for the 12k oil change this weekend and I already mentioned this to the dealer. We'll see how it goes.


----------



## Tax Consel (Apr 21, 2010)

*Chrysler's Brake Campaign for 2009 Minivans*

Because of the close relation of my Routan to the Mopar world I also watch the chrysler minivan fourms--another very good resource for our shared platform vehicles. There's a post over there that describes the brake campaign. If you're one of the brake afflicted you may want to share news of this campaign with the good folks over at VWOA. 

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/sh...-Extension-for-2009-Dodge-GC-and-Chrysler-TC? 

TC


----------



## haunted reality (Apr 18, 2001)

haunted reality said:


> Mine's doing it again too, got an appointment for the 12k oil change this weekend and I already mentioned this to the dealer. We'll see how it goes.


Dealer replaced all four rotors, VW paid for it. I get the van back tomorrow, hopefully this fixes that issue.


----------



## jaar1006 (Jul 28, 2010)

*BRAKE ISSUES on my New 2010 Routan*

My 2010 Routan, with litterally 2000 miles had to have the front rotors and pads replaced!!!!! 
The problem started about 500 miles ago, with a periodoc squeak upon apply


----------



## jaar1006 (Jul 28, 2010)

*BRAKE ISSUES on my New 2010 Routan*

My 2010 Routan, with litterally 2000 miles had to have the front rotors and pads replaced!!!!! 
The problem started about 500 miles ago, with a periodoc squeaking. It has only gotten worse. I took it into the VW dealer. I was told there was a residue on the rotors that should not be there. The dealer contacted VW tech support, they were advised to replace the rotors and pads. 

Is this common with VW/Chyrsler vans? Is there or will there be any kind of recall? Will I be back in the next 2000 miles, to have the same issue. 

If anyone is reading this, please offer your insight.


----------



## haunted reality (Apr 18, 2001)

I wondered that too, they told me they replaced all four rotors, but if it's the same bad designed rotors, I'll have the same issue. It is a known issue with Chrysler's as well.


----------



## N2OIL (Apr 22, 2006)

You might look on Facebook under VW Routan. The one that has a few thousand memebers. They have an interesting list of issues to look at. opcorn:


----------



## MRP2001GTi (Oct 6, 2000)

We are not alone. My friends that have Asian minivans ALL have the same brake shimmy issue. The problem is the manufacturers install brakes from a CAR on this 6000lb van and expect it to work. If I purchase my Routan at the end of the lease I will order aftermarket rotors and hope like heck they are made from better material or look into doing an SRT8 brake swap with one of the Dodge products.


----------



## TCM GLX (Jan 2, 2000)

Totally with these comments... my sister in law has a Toyota Sienna that goes through brakes every 10K miles. 

As for a brake upgrade, I wonder if stuff from some of the Dodge SRT stuff would bolt up? I would be interested in that as well.


----------



## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

TCM GLX said:


> Totally with these comments... my sister in law has a Toyota Sienna that goes through brakes every 10K miles.
> 
> As for a brake upgrade, I wonder if stuff from some of the Dodge SRT stuff would bolt up? I would be interested in that as well.


 
im putting on Power slot rotors next week, that and some acebono pads should help the brake feel :thumbup: 

Just a thought out there tho... it seems that 100% of the Routans out there are experiencing brake issues, besides **** quality brake pads / rotors, has anyone thought about the brake calipers themselves being the culprits ? possibly not retracing enough and super heating the rotors ?


----------



## Cool Dub (Aug 25, 2010)

*Neighbor with Honda van*

The new Odyssey next door has gone through brakes twice.
Dealer replace our scored 09 rotors (4) free. No problems.


----------



## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

Brakes just arrived from The Tire Rack, ill be installing them tomorrow!


----------



## TCM GLX (Jan 2, 2000)

So not much to add yet, our routan barely has 2500 miles.

Took it in for the 1500 mile pre service check, and talked to the Service Manager,...... he says, we have had problems, and are working testing better pads and rotors, for now, looks at it like this, you get new brakes every time they go bad for free.... I laughed, he had a good attitude about it.

As for Minivans, my brother had an 08 Odyssey, and my sister in law has an 07 SIenna, and BOTH eat brakes like a 10 year old kills a Happy Meal, QUICKLY! My brothers ODyssey was about every 10K miles, and the Sienna is about every 15-20, so it seems Minivan builders need to figure out a btter overall solution. BREMBOS?


----------



## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

Simple, They need to understand that these people movers, always have some sort of additional cargo in-stow. Usually 4 or 5 passengers. so an additional 500 lbs minimum to the vehicle weight !


----------



## gsgrace (Dec 17, 2010)

*Routan brake problems*

Just got off the phone with VW of America. Unwilling to do anything for us on the brakes and Rotors which need replacement at 26,000 miles, about 10,000 of which are highway miles. I am not hard on brakes. Had a Honda Odyssey with 140,000 and only replaced brakes about every 40,000 miles. VW claims they know nothing of any brake problems. HA! I've been complaining about excessive brake dust and vibration in the brakes since the first month I owned the car. Now I see that there are so many complaints that there HAS to be a problem. Chysler recalled the Town and Country brakes. This is the same van so VW should stand behind this product and do the same!


----------



## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

I thought I would mention that I have 8k miles on a 2010 SEL and no brake problems as of yet. I am wondering if VW found a solution with better pads and/or rotors and have upgraded everyone who have had replacements. My Journey first went out around 18k and then a continuous 10-15k after that. The idea that it could be a caliper sounds logical to me. If they don't properly retract it would cause excessive heat and wear, causing warping.


----------



## TCM GLX (Jan 2, 2000)

Steveaut said:


> I thought I would mention that I have 8k miles on a 2010 SEL and no brake problems as of yet. I am wondering if VW found a solution with better pads and/or rotors and have upgraded everyone who have had replacements. My Journey first went out around 18k and then a continuous 10-15k after that. The idea that it could be a caliper sounds logical to me. If they don't properly retract it would cause excessive heat and wear, causing warping.


I do not want to jinx myself, but I have 7500K on my 2010 Routan SE, and so far brakes seem good. Low brake dust, and not any vibes or anything!


----------



## kyle01 (Feb 20, 2006)

Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge brakes suck. Period.

And NOT all minivans eat brakes like that- my 2003 Eurovan has 115k on the original rotors (on our 3rd set of pads) No shimmy. Ever. Never been resurfaced even.

Good, thick, oversized rotors and huge calipers vs. undersized chinese Chrysler junk... 

I had a Grand Cherokee back in 03' that had a similar issue. Dealer replaced the first time, I paid the second time, then the third time- I did some research. There was a class action lawsuit pending on the brake issues! 

I ended up being reimbursed for the replacement I paid for out of pocket and FINALLY got the rotors replaced with an improved part. I got rid of it shortly after that.


Sorry to chime in here, I was only curious because a friend just bought a Routan and I was sniffing around...

Cheers
Kyle


----------



## Optical TDI (Dec 18, 2001)

If VW won't cover the costs, then don't buy the VW rotors again. Tire Rack sells Centric brand rotors for our vans. These are the same rotors that Powerslot rotors use, just without the slots. They are about $50 each are a much better quality than the stockers. 

Yeah it's $200, but I would bet these will not warp like the stock rotors. This is what I will do if we end up having the same issues. 3k miles so far and they are okay.


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Here are some rotor upgrades. All rotors are not created equally. Some big box autoparts stores sell lower cost parts because we all watch our money. But those lower prices usually come with a sacfrifce and the manufacturers cut material from the parts to keep the costs down. You want to find a rotor with the thickest rotor surface before it gets to the cooling veins of the rotor. Manufacturers will make the veins longer and take the surface thickness away thus resulting in a thinner rotor while still maintaining the proper surface to surface thickness. For example if a rotor is supposed to be 1-1/4 thick surface to surface that distance needs to be maintained but everything inbetween is fair game for material removal. So if you were to look at a rotor from looking at the veins the rotor surface might measure 3/8" on either side of the veins, but by removing a 1/16" or more form either inside surface would result in more rotors out the door for the manufacturer. A 1/16 might not seem like much but it could be the difference between warp or no warp possibly. Also look for a rotor that is either slotted or cross drilled, that will help in the cooling process allowing the hot gasses and surface temp to escape. I personally prefer cross-drilled rotors. I have been thru countless rotors and pads on my GMC Yukon (horrible brakes). When I switched to cross drilled rotor my warpage problems were gone for good. I could warp a set of OEM rotors in a months time. Only draw back to the crossdrilled rotors is some places will tell you they can't cut them because of the holes in them. You'll need to go to an oldtime repair shop to have it done because they're the only ones who understand how a brake lathe works. I heard a guy tell a customer that when the holes pass past the cutter, the cutter will move into the hole and break the cutting tool. I tried to explain to him that the feed of the tool is only moving a few thousandths of an inch over the whole cutting surface and he may only remove 10 thousandths of an inch to true a rotor (business card thickness) and the tool will not move in any farther than the feed rate tells the tool to move:screwy: I'm hoping more businesses get into the game for these rotors but here are a few links to rotors. Either site has pads to choose from. Just a little food for thought, though not the answer for everyone. We're at 3,700 miles and all is smooth so far.

http://www.frozenrotors.com/search/index.php
Just enter the vans info and you'll need to choose 2009 as the year.

http://ebcbrakes.iwebcat.com/_Members/lookups/lookup.asp?hdnUK=57176&hdnSts=0
Same as above choose the van either 2009 or 2010. The GD series are the ones. 

They claim that the cross drilled rotors crack, Ive got over 100K on crossdrilled rotors with no cracks.


----------



## blizno (Dec 11, 2009)

Looks like mine will be back in for a brake job. About 14K miles on the clock and brakes/rtors replaced at about 4500. :thumbdown:


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Unfortunately the problem is inherent in the design of the rotors. Not in where they were produced.
You can put the best rotors in the world on that car and they will still warp. Vw/Chrysler would need to spec a larger and thicker rotor to help dissipate heat properly. All aftermarkets will make the rotor to fit, based on the crappy oem specs.

So, get used to having new rotors put on...because recall or not, Chrysler still needs to redesign that rotor. 
FYI, I'm in the same boat as you guys! These rotors suck!


iPhone


----------



## VWroutanvanman (Feb 12, 2011)

*warped sense of rotor?*

I know this is going to sound odd, but some brake rotors are very sensative to lug nut torque. I didn't have problems with my brakes until I had the tires rotated at the first oil change. I then later had a flat on the RR, and darn if the lug nuts were on so tight it took a long breaker-bar to remove them. So.......make sure your wheels aren't over-torqued. I'm not sure of the value (reading on torque wrench), but it isn't much. After checking all 4 wheels, they were all over-tightened. VW dealer should have the value. By the way, it was the VW dealer that did that first oil change and rotated the tires.

PS..... I'm not saying that there isn't the possibility of poor quality parts, but the torque of the lugs should be correct so that can be ruled out as a problem. Also, the dealer replaced the rear rotors and pads under warrantee at 12,000 miles, and were very good about it.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I agree, over-trq can EASILY warp rotors. 


iPhone


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

nater said:


> I agree, over-trq can EASILY warp rotors.
> 
> 
> iPhone



+ 1 here

I can't stand getting my cars back from inspection only to rotate the tires in 5K to have to hang from the breaker bar!

BTW :The correct wheel nut tightness is 95 ft lbs (130 N·m).


----------



## Whataguy (Sep 5, 2003)

*Any Canadians have theirs replaced post 12 months?*

09 with 16,000 miles 1.5 years old went into garage today (towed-in via road side assistance, unrelated 'bad key' error - wouldn't start). Coincidentally had an appointment scheduled for next week; tapping noise underneath rear, constant, stops when brakes applied. Diagnosis: "brakes gone". Dealer said nothing can be done for warranty, acknowledging all the brake issues. $374 for rear disc and pads.

Guess I will make a call to VWCanada, but not optimistic. *Any Canadians have theirs replaced post 12 months?*

No history of 'rear' brake issues on this unit, yet 'front' brakes had issues - rotors repaired once, and then rotors replaced at about 5,000 miles.

Thanks.


----------



## VWroutanvanman (Feb 12, 2011)

*The value of torque*

Thanks for that torque value. I'll go back and check my wheels.


----------



## paf (Dec 6, 2010)

So my Routan came down with this very symptom 4000K into ownership. When traveling > 40 mph and stepping on the brake, the van starts to shudder as if had improperly balanced wheels. Obviously this shudder comes from warped rotors. I brought this up to my dealer on a routine 6K service and they did mention 2 things:

1) This is a know issue
2) It has to be reported before 12K otherwise you are approaching end of warranty for these parts and they are up for a regular service.

... and they will address it! Just like that - no hassles, no bickering.

I was also floored how helpful they were and friendly -- a big :thumbup: to my dealer. I get to drop off the van for service this fri and get a loaner to serve me throughout the service time. I do feel lucky that to find a good dealership with a great service rep.


----------



## jh1867 (Mar 17, 2011)

*Junk Brakes Also*

Well my 09 Routan SE with 19000 miles also had horrible brakes. They were so bad it felt like the wheel would come out of your hands. So I put a set of cross drilled and slotted rotors on there to help with the heat. I bought the set on E-Bay and I figured I had nothing to lose. Here is the 
*Item number: 280646211102 and the seller id atlautosports* [/B]they are nice looking rotors amd are zink plated for rust. The pads they sent are good ones also. I must say it is night and day with the difference. It is a much firmer pedal. We have only had the van about a month and noticed the proble. I beleive that with only 19000 miles the front rotors and pads must have been changed before. They didnt look to bad but they sure were.


----------



## Sawdust (May 28, 2002)

Here is my History so far.

Demo purchased with 13,000km = 8000m

front brakes resurfaced at 20,000km = 12,500m

Rear brakes squeal, new pads + rotors at 30,000km = 18,500m

Front new pads + rotors at 42,000km = 26,000m

All done under VWOC warranty with very little effort on my part.


----------



## pmilian01 (Feb 18, 2011)

*My solution to my warp rotors*

I purchased a used 2009 Routan last year with 36,000 miles and immediately I had that problem with the brakes.

This was my solution to this problem (I have now 44,500 miles) and so far is working great. I installed cross drilled & slotted rotors with metallic pads. There is the option of using ceramic pads but they are very noisy with this kind of rotors, but they do brake the with very little effort on the brake pedal. Is my opinion that the regular rotors get too hot causing them to warp, cross drilled & slotted rotors cools down a lot faster. All high performance cars have this kind of rotors to cool it down while braking at high speeds. So far in my Routan is working great, like a charm.

If interested I got it from this guy on EBAY 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FRON...ssories&fits=Model:Routan&hash=item3f08db1a01


----------



## 71sbeetle (Apr 12, 2002)

our history is easy:
each 6k miles visits:
new front brake rotors
new front brake pads
new rear brake rotors
new rear brake pads
.......


----------



## Tr0p1c_6er (Jun 26, 2004)

Has anyone had problems with the pedal assembly? I put new cross drilled slotted rotors and ceramic pads front and rear, now when you push the pedal you get this weird squishing sound like mashing the air out of an airbag or something. Can't imagine changing the parts would have caused that (we bled the brakes well when we finished, no air bubbles, and I did the bed in process that was recommended.) 

Anyone have any suggestions on what may have happened?


----------



## VWroutanvanman (Feb 12, 2011)

*Manufacture date*

It would be interesting to get all the manufacturing dates of our vans with brake problems. At some point Chrysler must have either run out of bad inventory, or realized that there was a brake rotor problem, and changed inventory (Chinese rotors?).......my date of manufacture on my '10 Routan SE is 11-09.


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Tr0p1c_6er said:


> Has anyone had problems with the pedal assembly? I put new cross drilled slotted rotors and ceramic pads front and rear, now when you push the pedal you get this weird squishing sound like mashing the air out of an airbag or something. Can't imagine changing the parts would have caused that (we bled the brakes well when we finished, no air bubbles, and I did the bed in process that was recommended.)
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions on what may have happened?


 
If it sounds like air when pressing the brake pedal down more it's possible the power brake booster has gone bad. Do the brakes feel mushy or poor too and is it runnning rough? If it's running rough then you are leaking vacuum, but you would also hear it hissing(indside) while running. What you did should not have caused anything to happen with the booster, but if when you bled the brakes you somehow over extended the pin that pushes on the diaphram inside the booster and tore the rubber that would be about the only way I could see it happening but I highly doubt it. That does not look like a fun job, about all you can see is the master cylinder when you open the hood. Any chance your still under warranty? So they can't get too picky, put your old stuff back on


----------



## plrhlco (Aug 21, 2011)

*Brake issues*

Is this issue happening on all trim level Routans? What year Routans is this happening on? Is this just a total problem for everyone who purchased a Routan?


----------



## NCrsx (Jul 5, 2011)

Yes, all trim levels 2009-2010. No one has any issues yet for 2011 model's that I know of.


----------



## Badge56 (May 27, 2009)

*2009 Highline 4.0L*

Well I also figured I was not getting the brake problems until about 3 months ago.... Big time shaking in the steering when braking hard... Warped rotora... Just changed them using drilled rotors from Ebay... 4 rotors + 4 sets of pads $220.00 shipped and taxes included. Had the installed at a local garage for under $200.... $400.00 for new brakes all around is a good deal in my book. 
The rotors should be a lot better than the cheapos Chrysler uses.... Hoping to get at least 50k km with them.


----------



## Tr0p1c_6er (Jun 26, 2004)

58kafer said:


> If it sounds like air when pressing the brake pedal down more it's possible the power brake booster has gone bad. Do the brakes feel mushy or poor too and is it runnning rough? If it's running rough then you are leaking vacuum, but you would also hear it hissing(indside) while running. What you did should not have caused anything to happen with the booster, but if when you bled the brakes you somehow over extended the pin that pushes on the diaphram inside the booster and tore the rubber that would be about the only way I could see it happening but I highly doubt it. That does not look like a fun job, about all you can see is the master cylinder when you open the hood. Any chance your still under warranty? So they can't get too picky, put your old stuff back on


 Yeah, the brakes don't feel right either but the van isn't running rough as far as I can tell. There doesn't seem to be a constant noticeable hissing either. I did put ceramic pads on though, could that account for the brakes feeling like they grab less?


----------



## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

Tr0p1c_6er said:


> Yeah, the brakes don't feel right either but the van isn't running rough as far as I can tell. There doesn't seem to be a constant noticeable hissing either. I did put ceramic pads on though, could that account for the brakes feeling like they grab less?


 I don't think the ceramic pads will make the vehicle feel like it grabs less. If anything, it should feel like it brakes much better and grabs more. I switched all of my prior vehicles to ceramics and they always stopped better and were quiet. I will eventually on the Routan, but as long as VW replaces them for free, which they recently did, I won't worry about it. I suspect that was a one time benefit and the next time, at or near 40K miles, I will need to buy some ceramics and new rotors and do it myself.


----------



## Tr0p1c_6er (Jun 26, 2004)

Does anyone else get a whooshing sound when you mash the pedal? I also can't get the ABS to engage on pavement.


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Steveaut said:


> I don't think the ceramic pads will make the vehicle feel like it grabs less. If anything, it should feel like it brakes much better and grabs more. I switched all of my prior vehicles to ceramics and they always stopped better and were quiet. I will eventually on the Routan, but as long as VW replaces them for free, which they recently did, I won't worry about it. I suspect that was a one time benefit and the next time, at or near 40K miles, I will need to buy some ceramics and new rotors and do it myself.


Ever car I have used ceramic pads on have always grabbed less for the first few stops until the heat builds up into the pads.



Tr0p1c_6er said:


> Does anyone else get a whooshing sound when you mash the pedal? I also can't get the ABS to engage on pavement.


We have a wurring noise when braking, going back in and taking a tech for a ride to have them hear it.


----------



## rdsmt (Jun 3, 2007)

Needs a brake booster.


----------



## rdsmt (Jun 3, 2007)

All the brake rotors I have seen are made in the US. They blaim it in the pads overheating the rotors. There is a service bullentin for the 2009 routans only stating to replace the front pads with updated ones and to replace the rotors.


----------



## linus96 (May 9, 2010)

Just had my 09 SE at the dealer for the rear brake rotors, the metal surface of the rotors is pitting like the surface of the moon. The front rotors appear to be normal but the rears need replacement. I have to wait since the service manager told me there are 1400 sets of rear rotors on nationwide back order.
He claimed there is so TSB`s about brakes, I find that amazing, I guess it`s like the passenger headlight housing. Mine started raining inside after 2yrs, totally full of moisture, they replaced it and admitted they had changed quite a few due to faulty seals, but no TSB about that either.
Basically like the old saying," if you don`t ask, you don`t get"


----------



## 71sbeetle (Apr 12, 2002)

You want to laugh ? You know how at every 6000 miles I got new brake rotors and pads all around, and each time they were supposed to be "a newer version" and those are better and blah blah blah ....

Well, I traded in my 2009 Routan SEL Premium last month with 37202 miles, I had the brakes replaced last at 35918 so just under 1300 miles on the brakes, 635 of those miles were highway driving up to Georgia to trade the van in, no hard stops, nothing excessive, no long downhill runs with the brakes on. My friend that works at the dealer said the brakes were COMPLETELY TOAST all the way around ! They needed all new brakes on the van AGAIN after 1300 miles !!! And people laughed at me when I had my accident and I said the brakes didn't work for crap (4 day old van). I should have sued VW/Chrysler back then


----------



## vrsantana (Sep 25, 2006)

Recently got a 2009 Routan SEL with 36,000 miles. I feel an ever so slight pulse occasionally when we come to a stop. Hope this is not a sign of things to come. But, if so, couldn't I just save myself the aggravation at the dealer and the trips back and forth and just buy a really GOOD set of rotors and pads for the van and have them replaced.

Would that solve the issue? Because if me forking out $500-$800 to upgrade what has already been determined to be crappy rotors, I would do that in a heartbeat.

Any thoughts?


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

vrsantana said:


> Recently got a 2009 Routan SEL with 36,000 miles. I feel an ever so slight pulse occasionally when we come to a stop. Hope this is not a sign of things to come. But, if so, couldn't I just save myself the aggravation at the dealer and the trips back and forth and just buy a really GOOD set of rotors and pads for the van and have them replaced.
> 
> Would that solve the issue? Because if me forking out $500-$800 to upgrade what has already been determined to be crappy rotors, I would do that in a heartbeat.
> 
> Any thoughts?


The factory rotors simply put, garbage. Turn the radio off and while driving along slightly press the brake pedal. If it goes from quite to a slight rumbling sound in the back and you can duplicate it everytime you press and release the brake pedal, it's time for rear rotors and pads. The OEM pads for the rear only is $175 OEM. Yes you read that correctly, $175 FOR THE REAR *PADS* ONLY. There is a company online that offers a lifetime warranty on their rotors, even warpage. But the kicker is they'll only replace them one time. That being said, if you can get 30K out of one set and 30K out of the second free set, even with the increased cost of the rotors you'll still be on top. Our 2010 has 24K and we went thru the originals(all 4), a second set (all 4), and we're on our 3 set (all 4). Roughly 8-9K everytime they were replaced. My wife drives the van and she doesn't hammer on it either. Some guys have gone longer, but I think it all revolves around your terrain.

If you just bought the van at the dealer and it was a CPO, take it back at tell them they missed the brake check and see if they'll set you up with new ones. Chrysler and Dodge vans have extended brake warranties for 3 years or 36K. VW never issued the same, but at the end of the day, it is a Chrysler, so why shouldn't we get the same. At 24K I did not get denied, they(dealer) wanted us to pay for the rear pads and that's when I mentioned the Chryco extended brake warranty and they said they'll call VWOA to see if they'd cover it. Never got a call back, wife picked up the van and all was new and no charge. The dealer took good care of it for us. Not sure if I'll push it just before 36K for a new set, or just bite the bullet and go aftermarket. A friends 08' Caravan had smoked rotors in 12 months (bought new), they went aftermarket and as far as I know they may still have the same rotors on it. They were just ones the local independent shop got for them, I'm sure nothing fancy.When our brakes are out of warranty I'll be going the aftermarket route.


----------



## Volvos Rock (Oct 13, 2011)

Hey 58, you talking about BrakePerformance.com?, just got a set for the rear of my Volvo, they sure are pretty, they go on on Friday. 

Back to the topic at hand, our fronts were replaced recently at 18k (we bought it at 16k), Ill let VW keep replacing them for free for as long as they will, then it will be either the ones mentioned above ore ATE premium ones, with Akebono pads.:wave:


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Volvos Rock said:


> Hey 58, you talking about BrakePerformance.com?, just got a set for the rear of my Volvo, they sure are pretty, they go on on Friday.
> 
> Back to the topic at hand, our fronts were replaced recently at 18k (we bought it at 16k), Ill let VW keep replacing them for free for as long as they will, then it will be either the ones mentioned above ore ATE premium ones, with Akebono pads.:wave:



Yep, that's it. I posted it on the first page of this thread some months ago. Glad to hear they are nice quality. I have Brembo cross drilled and Akebono pads on the front of my 97 GMC Yukon. I used to warp stock rotors in a month to a month and a half. Since switching to the cross drilleds I never warped another rotor. I made the mistake of not checking the pads and had a caliper that got stuck and ate the inside of the rotor away, so now I'm on my second set of Brembo's. I have easily been running the Brembo's for over 100K with no warpage. I'll be going the cross drilled once I no longer am getting the stockers under warranty.


----------



## 05jettatdi (May 31, 2006)

*Routan Brakes Fixed*

I know everyone here has issues with the brakes (as did I) 
2009 Routan SEL 
Factory replaced front rotors and pads at ~20k miles 
At ~ 38k miles the rear pads wore out and were metal on metal 
At this time the fronts were warped again so I decided to replace all 4 
I bought rotors and pads from advanced auto parts 
Plain rotors and wagner Thermoquiet pads 
Replaced everything, lubed the slides and bled the fluid. 
This next part is the critical part I think the dealer does not do (proper pad bed in) 
I personally do the following break in procedure and have been doing so for years of 
racing and with great results 

~6 progressively harder stops from higher speeds (need a nice quiet road) 
40-0 @ 50% 
40-0 @ 70% 
40-0 @ 95% (ABS will maybe kick in) 
60-20 @ 50% 
60-20 @ 70% 
60-20 @ 90% (ABS will maybe kick in) 

Brakes should be very hot and smelly/smokey 

drive home with out touching the brakes if possible and let completely cool (overnight) 
DO NOT SET THE PARKING BRAKE!!!! (it will cause the pads to stick to the rotors) 

This procedure will properly bed in the pads to the rotors and will also anneal the metal to remove any stress 

So far ~15k miles and no warping, even with a few panic stops since. I also never had warping on any of the track cars using this process either. 

Total cost ~$340 in parts and a couple hours labor 
Pads are lifetime warranty and rotors are 2 years


----------



## paf (Dec 6, 2010)

Here we go with the brakes again...

15,000 K -- mind you I had rotors replaced (at least that's what the paperwork claims) at 6K.

Brakes are grinding, squeaking and the steering wheel shudder is back again (light but present).

Contacted the dealer to schedule a quick look and got the spiel on "oh, at this the brakes are out of warranty blah blah blah".... we'll see about that.....

Pads are at 1/2 inch in the front and slightly more than 1/4 in the back (not bad for 15K assuming that they were not replaced along with the rotors). Rotors show slight surface groves and "little pits" - I wonder if they were surfaced not replaced the first time around... hmmm...

Let's see how this pans out tomorrow -- for sure when the car hits 36,000K I need to brace myself for a 1st class brake job with complete rotor replacement. May this be a note to prospective buyers of this line of cars or those who are planning on keeping the car more than 36K....


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Sorry, I may have missed this reading this thread and other similar threads on the brake problems, and apologies if I did. But has anyone had after-market pads/rotors get chewed up fast? I see that a few folks have put after-market pads/rotors on their Routan (from brakeperformance.com and advanced auto, etc.), but unless I missed it, I haven't seen any postings about the after-market stuff getting getting warped and chewed up. I know it's anecdotal, but everything seems to involve just the OEM stuff that the dealership keeps putting on. So has _anyone_ put on after-market pads & rotors and have them wear out in


----------



## taxman100 (Apr 30, 2011)

*2011 - Good to Go*

For what it is worth, I just had our Routan into the dealership for a hard shift from 1st to 2nd gear when cold and the Eco button is on. They checked all four brakes, and said I have about 10% wear.

This is at 11,700 miles, and the dealer estimates I should get 50-70 thousand miles on these brakes, based upon current wear. So maybe the fix was made for 2011.

I heard Chrysler they upgraded the rotors again for 2012's with 17 inch wheels, so maybe the Routan got that as well.


----------



## paf (Dec 6, 2010)

*+1 to my dealer*

Well, just came back from the dealer and as suspected the rotors are starting to warp. Since it was within the 1 year / 12,000 guarantee on parts, the are being very cool about it and replacing the rotors.

Moral of today's story -

- On 12/11/2011 there was another TSB that outlined the brake issue and supposedly new and improved parts are used to correct the issue.

- VWoA keeps absorbing the cost of crappy parts and/or design. Let's hope (from the perspective that it takes time to get it into the service) that this is the fix.

- My dealer rocks the house once again. That's like +4 now (they stand behind their product)

Honestly, the entire experience has made more of a VW service fan than ever -- yeah, the product is crap, the service knows it, VW so far tried to address the issue and don't try to "stick it to the customer". Fair in my opinion. Let's see how long this lasts though....

Well, can't wait to hear a feedback from those who upgraded to aftermarket premium stuff and how its holding out. I will let you know how the latest OEM upgrade does as time passes by.


----------



## wrxin (Jan 8, 2012)

My 2 cents. We purchased a 2010 SE about a month ago. 11k miles, CPO, etc.

The brakes had a small shudder right from the get go. It was worse if you braked harder but you could feel it with pretty much any brake effort.

Dealer checked the rotors and all 4 were a bit warped. They told me there was a new design for the pads that is supposed to stop this from happening but interestingly enough they ended up only resurfacing the rotors. They left the old pads in place :screwy:. They said the pads were in very good shape.

They did all the work under warranty, no charge.

Guess we'll see how it goes but I can say the brakes are very smooth feeling and work well right now, no vibration. Time will tell.

Since they didn't replace the pads, I'm pretty sure I'll have a good case with them if this happens again and they'll have to replace/resurface the rotors again and replace the pads.


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm going to do the rears next weekend. Just ordered Raybestos Advanced Technology rotors and pads for the rears. These were in the "high performance/heavy duty" category and are marketed toward light-duty trucks & SUVs specifically for "hard working fleets, towing/hauling, muscle cars, tuner vehicles, luxury automobiles". Supposed to guarantee an increase in braking performance compared to OEM, and the Routan braking seems to be designed for under-performance. Could just be marketing mumbo-jumbo. 

I was going to order from brakeperformance.com, but it takes 5 business days for them to custom make them after ordered, and they're in California so another 5 business days to ship them to the East coast. I wanted to get this done by next weekend, and it was cost prohibitive to expedite shipping given the weights. 

I had the fronts done about 4k or 5k miles ago and, as I think I mentioned previously, I went with Napa premium rotors and Napa's Adaptive One ceramic hybrid pads. I'll take a look next weekend to see how they're doing. I was going to put the same set-up on the rear, because I've been happy so far, but I just saw that the friction rating on the Adaptive One outer-pads are rated FE (inner are FF) which is on the low end. I wanted to find something to increase braking ability, and found these Raybestos. Good reviews from what I've read online, but they seem to have moved manufacturing to China (from the U.S. first, to Canada 2nd, and now China). I was a little reluctant to order Raybestos b/c I've always thought of them as run-of-the-mill brand for brake components sold at the big-box auto parts stores, sort of like what Fram is to filters. And now this made-in-China thing. So we'll see.

I'm hopeful that this whole brake problem is because of Chrysler's pi$$-poor sourcing of OEM parts, and going after-market (with just about anything) will solve the problem. But I will keep everyone posted about the Raybestos, and the Napa parts on the front.


----------



## blizno (Dec 11, 2009)

*My Turn Once Again....*

Here we go again...

Our 09 has had issues since day 1 with the "shudder". They have replaced brake pads, resurfaced rotors and even replaced the rotors. I am at the dealer now and they tell me they can't replace the warped rotors with approval. I was like YOU JUST REPLACED THEM AT 18K!. They said they see the history and know the issues with the brakes but need approval. They are keeping my work order open and will call me with a resolution. WTF!:banghead::screwy:


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Ask them to put you in a courtesy vehicle on their dime until they get the necessary approvals and figure out how they are going to solve their (not your) problem, and I'll bet they'll figure it all out quick enough. If they refuse to replace your rotors, tell them you want it in writing from the Service Dept. Mgr. that 18k miles on a set of rotors is "normal" and acceptable. And if they're willing to do that, I'd go raise holy hell with VWoA.


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Remind the dealer that Chyrsler extended the brake warranty for 3yrs/36K. Mind you the Chryco customers have a deductible, I have not paid anything for my 3 brake jobs, so don't ruin it:laugh: But seriously there is an extension for all 08 to 11 Chrysler vans, mind you since your is an 09 you MIGHT by purchase date be S.O.L., even though your under by 1/2 on mileage. That is the downer on keeping the mileages low. I reminded my dealer the last time I was in and they covered it. I don't think I'm going to push for a 4th set. I'd rather just put better quality aftermarket rotors and pads on and see how they do.

Below is from watersketch on chryslerminivan.net
http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/sh...y-Extension-for-2009-Dodge-GC-and-Chrysler-TC


Chrysler Group LlC

FRONT BRAKE LIMITED WARRANTY EXTENSION FOR 2009 DODGE GRAND CARAVAN AND CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY VEHICLES

Dear _________:
The Basic Limited Warranty applicable to your vehicle covers the cost of parts and labor necessary to repair braking components that fail due to a defect in materials, workmanship or factory preparation within the 12 months period following your vehicle's in service date or until there are 12,000 miles on the odometer, whichever conies first. Chrysler is offering an extension to the terms of your
Basic Limited Warranty for the purpose of enhancing your overall experience as a Chrysler customer.

The problem is...

The front brakes on your vehicle (VIN: ______________ ) may need pads and rotors
replaced earlier than expected. The brake performance is not affected in any way by
this issue.

What your dealer will do...
Should the front brake components on your vehicle need to be replaced due to a
defect in materials, workmanship or factory preparation after the expiration of 12
months or 12,000 miles but before 24 months or 24,000 miles on the odometer,
whichever comes first, Chrysler will pay for the cost of parts and labor necessary to
replace them less a $50 deductible.

Furthermore should the front brake components on your vehicle need to be replaced
due to a defect in materials, workmanship or factory preparation after the expiration
of 24 months or 24,000 miles on the odometer but before 36 months or 36,000 miles
on the. odometer, whichever comes first, Chrysler will pay for the cost of parts and
labor necessary to replace them less a $100 deductible.

What you must do...

Simply contact your dealer to schedule a service appointment, if you feel that your
front brakes are in need of replacement. Remember to bring this letter with you to your
dealer. Please make sure to store this letter with your vehicle's other warranty information
for future reference.

If you need help...
If you have questions or concerns which your dealer is unable to resolve, please contact
1-800 Chrysler (247-9753) or 1-800-4-A-I?odge (2-36343)

If you have already experienced Hils condition and have paid to have it repaired, please send your original receipts and/or other adequate proof ofpayment to the following address for reimbursement less the applicable deductible: ..

Chrysler Customer Assistance
P.O. Box 21-8004
Auburn Hills, MI 48321-8004
Attention: Reimbursement

Chrysler places great value on your loyalty andsatisfaction with YO\lr vehicle, and as such we apologize in the event that this issue may have caused you any inconvenience.
Thank you again for your loyalty,

Chrysler Group LLC

0072480/#43823 X24




Here is another link to another guys paperwork:

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/sh...on-for-2008-minivans?highlight=brake+warranty


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Fronts only? Interesting.


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Some where, the rears are mentioned too, but I haven't found it yet. If I do I'll post it up.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


----------



## blizno (Dec 11, 2009)

*Temporay Resolution*



blizno said:


> Here we go again...
> 
> Our 09 has had issues since day 1 with the "shudder". They have replaced brake pads, resurfaced rotors and even replaced the rotors. I am at the dealer now and they tell me they can't replace the warped rotors with approval. I was like YOU JUST REPLACED THEM AT 18K!. They said they see the history and know the issues with the brakes but need approval. They are keeping my work order open and will call me with a resolution. WTF!:banghead::screwy:


Update to my post...

I received a call from the service adviser in the afternoon (same day as I posted). He advised that his Manager would replace the rear rotors as "one time courtesy". I am not happy with the one time courtesy replacement since this is an ongoing issue with the vehicle. I made an appointment and rotors were replaced. My issue is still with VW. I can't blame the dealer at this point. I have been thinking of getting aftermarket brakes and rotors as some of you have. I guess it's the principal of VW knowing they have inferior brake parts and continue to use them. They should not be left off the hook that easy IMO.


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

blizno said:


> Update to my post...
> 
> I received a call from the service adviser in the afternoon (same day as I posted). He advised that his Manager would replace the rear rotors as "one time courtesy". I am not happy with the one time courtesy replacement since this is an ongoing issue with the vehicle. I made an appointment and rotors were replaced. My issue is still with VW. I can't blame the dealer at this point. I have been thinking of getting aftermarket brakes and rotors as some of you have. I guess it's the principal of VW knowing they have inferior brake parts and continue to use them. They should not be left off the hook that easy IMO.


Glad to see you got new rotors. As far as VW not stepping up, I'll partially agree. The brake warranty has been extended on Dodge and Chrysler vans for 3 years or 36K for the fronts for sure and I think the rears as well, I remeinded the service writer on the last go round. While we Routan owners never got this, VW has replaced them. Mind you on a Chryco van, they have either a $50 or $100 deductible until they are out of "warranty". VW has not made anyone pay a deductible, that I know of. So I guess in reality, we have actually made out better than a Chryco owner. And yes, brakes should last way longer than they actually are on our vans, there is no denying that!

Now for the bad part on your end, you drive and 09', it's currently 2012, by checking you in service date will probably put you past 3 years. *Technically*, they are doing you a favor----*IF* you are past the 3 years. While I *don't* agree with it (read, I'm on your side) they have made the concessions, it's just unfortunate the you don't rack up that many miles, and you can't blame VW/Chrysler for that. We currently have about 8K on our last set of rotors, and much to my surprise there have been no signs of warpage as of yet. So for me the next set will be on me and I'll be going aftermarket for sure. This has been our only major problem with our van and I knew about this going into it, doesn't make it better, but i was prepared for it at some point.


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

*95 or 105 ft. lbs.?*



58kafer said:


> BTW :The correct wheel nut tightness is 95 ft lbs (130 N·m).


What's the source on this? Not questioning you in particular, 58, but i'm at Discount Tire getting tires rotated/balanced and i mentioned the lug-nut torque value and he pulled it up on his computer and said it was 105 ft-lbs. They very well could err on the side of over-tightening for liability reasons (or whatever), but Discount Tire is really good w/ reputation, hand-tighten everything (without asking), etc. so just curious which number is correct. They won't torque to 95 on my word alone when their computers are showing 105. Thx.


----------



## wrxin (Jan 8, 2012)

Don't stress over 10 ft lbs on wheel lug nuts. There's really no notable difference between 95 and 105, especially with the regular old factory wheels. The accuracy of the torque setting usually gets destroyed by the person using the torque wrench (or worse yet torque stick on an impact gun) because they continue to push on the wrench after its "clicked" or the car is rocking as they tighten or they dropped their wrench a bunch of times or it hasn't been calibrated in years or its a $15 torque wrench from Harbor Freight, you get the idea.

Generally speaking, every bolt on a car has a torque range as opposed to a specific number. So 95 vs 105 is really not that big a deal.


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

I got it straight from the CD manual that came with our 2010 SEL. If you need the manual to take to the guy I'd be happy to email it to you. Unless Chrysler issued a change, I'm sticking with my manual. Also the following link is to the 2011 Chrysler T&C manual and has it on page 455, so 2011's are the same too. Maybe they run everything 10 over for their peace of mind, I'd still check them and set it to the 95 ft/lbs myself. :thumbup:

2011 T&C Manual


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks guys. Sorry, I didn't mean to post & run and go MIA, but I saw your msgs yesterday and appreciate the responses. 58, I thought you were more likely to be correct, and I'm glad you proved me correct on that. Thanks for posting the page from the manual.

At first I thought 10 ft-lbs wasn't much to be concerned about, but then I over-thought it and was thinking 10+% difference might matter. I also figured it might be in the margin of error just b/c torque wrenches seem to be renowned for being off a little bit one way or the other. I also think, in this situation as it pertains to lug-nuts and warped rotors, that it's probably the equal torquing of the lug-nuts that is more important than the exact number. Within reason of course (not talking about 200 ft-lbs or anything crazy like that).


----------



## villalja (May 28, 2012)

*Brake Problems SOLVED!!!!!*

Just took in my 2010 Routan for its 24,000 required service. The brakes had been vibrating for a while and I had been on these forums to see if it was my imagination, or there were others with Routan brake problems. Well, I'm happy to report that even though the brakes and rotors were bad, the dealer (Flow VW of Greensboro, NC) just fixed them today. So I suppose persistance pays off! Good luck getting all of your Routan brake issues resolved, folks!!!


----------



## PaulAP (May 21, 2009)

*Have the brakes been fixed?*

Have the brakes been updated? 

We recently purchased our Routan. It's an 09 that had just over 36,000 kms on it, and the brakes work fantastic! No noise, no shudder, just smooth, and they bite quite well for a stock brake. The only issue we have with the van is a lack of a dead pedal.  

We purchased it from a VW dealer as a certified pre-owned VW (I even have the flag). I read that to be certified, one of the things that the dealer has to do is make sure that all of the recalls and TSB's are up to date. 

So I wondered if that meant that it has the latest "version" of the brakes. I figured I'd just go after-market if they developed a problem, but they have been great so far. :thumbup: 

I want to upgrade from the stock 16" 'Bloom' wheels, and found a nice looking set of used 19" 5 spoke Journey wheels (2009) for sale about an hours drive away. A few other's here have put them on their Routan's, and they look great.  

Well here's the thing that makes me wonder about the brakes. Upon trying on one of the 19" Journey wheels (before I paid the nice people), They did NOT fit!  I could not get them to clear the brakes! The diameter obviously was not a problem, as this wheel is 3 inches bigger than my stock wheel, but the caliper protrudes out to far to allow the wheel to seat. After putting my stock wheel back on, I see that it only just clears the caliper... just. 

I also had been in touch with Tire Rack looking for wheels, and I had mentioned that anything that fits the Caravan or Town and Country should fit the Routan, and in his e-mail they said... 

"The VW Routan has bigger brake calipers than does the Caravan/Town & Country. This prevents a great number of wheels from fitting your vehicle." - Tire Rack 

Hmmm.... 

So I'm wondering, Has VW's latest upgrade possibly made the rotors thicker to prevent warping, and thus requiring a wider upgraded caliper as well (or something similar)? 

I'm also in Canada Eh... but can't see that making a difference. 

So 58kafer :wave: How are your latest set of brakes holding out?


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

PaulAP said:


> The only issue we have with the van is a lack of a dead pedal.


 I was told soon, I hope next week. 




PaulAP said:


> So I wondered if that meant that it has the latest "version" of the brakes. I figured I'd just go after-market if they developed a problem, but they have been great so far. :thumbup:


 They just need to make sure the brakes PASS the CPO certification. Any brakes that would be installed that are OEM would be the "latest" rendition, but not larger like the HD brake package on the 2012 Chrysler vans with the HD brake option. 



PaulAP said:


> Well here's the thing that makes me wonder about the brakes. Upon trying on one of the 19" Journey wheels (before I paid the nice people), They did NOT fit!  I could not get them to clear the brakes! The diameter obviously was not a problem, as this wheel is 3 inches bigger than my stock wheel, but the caliper protrudes out to far to allow the wheel to seat. After putting my stock wheel back on, I see that it only just clears the caliper... just.


 I'll hedge my bets on they were Chrysler Pacifica wheels. Any chance you have a link to them or a Picture of them? Pacifica wheels have the correct bolt circle but the wrong offset, which will bury them into the caliper, like you experienced. 



PaulAP said:


> I also had been in touch with Tire Rack looking for wheels, and I had mentioned that anything that fits the Caravan or Town and Country should fit the Routan, and in his e-mail they said...
> 
> "The VW Routan has bigger brake calipers than does the Caravan/Town & Country. This prevents a great number of wheels from fitting your vehicle." - Tire Rack


 The Rack is on Crack for sure, the Routans have the exact same brake rotors, pads and calipers as the DGC and the Chrysler T&C, and I'm 99.9% positive the Journey too, you can confirm that with ANY online autoparts store where you can search by vehicle. The stock 17" wheels are 6.5" wide with an offset of 40(on the inside of one of the spokes). And it is probably stamped on one of your wheels. Any wheel from a DGC, T&C will fit for sure. Journey wheels that are confirmed to fit are from the R/T with the 5 spoke 19" wheel. 




PaulAP said:


> So I'm wondering, Has VW's latest upgrade possibly made the rotors thicker to prevent warping, and thus requiring a wider upgraded caliper as well (or something similar)?
> 
> I'm also in Canada Eh... but can't see that making a difference.


 NOPE 



PaulAP said:


> So 58kafer :wave: How are your latest set of brakes holding out?


 Probably around 13K +/- and the rears are now pulsing. By far the best we've gotten. It's funny, the rotors looked good but once they started pulsing the visibly look like like crap. Here's my analogy-- They're like a Tootsie Pop, hard on the outside but soft on the inside. Like once you wear the hard shell down you get into the warpzone, crazy for sure. It's something I've notice with all the rear rotors that have been on this van. My Passat has the factory rotors on it with 95K and they look smooth compared to the Routan. My Dodge Ram with 217K on it had the original rotors on the rear and they looked smooth too. We're at 33K miles and I'm not sure what to do, ask the dealer for a warranty set or bite the bullet and go aftermarket and hope they last much longer. Guys post that the put aftermarkets on but they never check back in for an update which really gets my goat. 


Did they look like these? 










Or like these?


----------



## PaulAP (May 21, 2009)

*I think they are Journey wheels.*



58kafer said:


> I'll hedge my bets on they were Chrysler Pacifica wheels. Any chance you have a link to them or a Picture of them?


 Hope I used the quote correctly... I am after all still a "Semi-n00b"  

I'm quite sure that they are Journey wheels. They have a 2009 Journey with smaller steel wheels. It was cheaper for them to get steel wheels, tires, hubcaps and TPMS sensors than it would have been to get new tires alone. Hence the reason the wheels are for sale. I'm going to try to attach the picture of them I got from the add. This "Semi-n00b" has not attached a picture yet.  










The add reads


> A complete set of Dodge 19" rims. They come off of a 2009 Dodge Journey.


 If anyone in the Winnipeg/Beausejour (Manitoba) area is interested in them, I believe they are still for sale. They have superficial scratches and oxidation near the centers, but no curb rash or gouges. Worth the $400.00, especially if you are going to paint them. 

Here's the link... 
http://winnipeg.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-auto-parts-tires-tires-rims-Dodge-Rims-W0QQAdIdZ384679798


----------



## PaulAP (May 21, 2009)

The picture didn't work. :banghead: This should, but it will expire and become a broken link when they close the add on kijiji.


----------



## PaulAP (May 21, 2009)

The other (better) pic of them.


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

They are journey wheels for sure, can't see why they didn't fit? For that price I'd be all over them. The price they are trying to get for them on Ebay is ridiculous, but they're asking what I'd say is a fair price. I know its a far ride but if revisit then if I could, or maybe have them take a pic of the offset that is cast into the wheel. If you look at the following link you'll se the info on the back of the wheel 19X7 JX40.0(the offset) the 40.0 is the exact offset as the OEM wheels on our Routans so there is no reason that they shouldn't have worked. Look at the second pic. I also verified that the calipers are the same for the Routan from 09-12. You sure you weren't missing something? 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/19-DODGE-JO...ries&hash=item1c26907d3d&vxp=mtr#ht_500wt_969 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

58kafer said:


> or bite the bullet and go aftermarket and hope they last much longer. Guys post that the put aftermarkets on but they never check back in for an update which really gets my goat.


 I'm at 59,600 and I was going to provide a more thorough update after the upcoming 60k mile service, which is when I should know more as to what the current brake _problem_ is all about.  The front brakes are squeaking a good bit when they get hot. I don't feel any grinding under the pedal or hear grinding, but definitely squeaking after a lot of city driving and when it's been hot outside as it has been the past couple of months. Enough squeaking to make you cringe at times, both driving the vehicle and when at the end of the driveway playing with the kids when Spouse rounds the corner turning into the driveway. 

Also developed a couple months ago a pulsing or shutter when light or moderate braking at highway speeds, and that pulsing has become more pronounced lately. I'm just hoping it's not both the front and rears that have gone bad, but not overly optimistic about things either. The squeaking is definitely the front, and based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge, I thought pulsing or shuttering at highway speeds during light braking is indicative of an issue with rear brakes. 

Just to summarize my situation: 
Current: 59,600 on the odo. I'll be taking the van in at the end of the month for the 60k mile service. 
Rear brakes replaced on 2/16/12 at 55,950 miles with Raybestos Advanced Technology rotors and pads. 
Front brakes replaced on 11/18/11 at 51,925 miles with Napa "Premium" rotors and Napa Adaptive One "hybrid"-ceramic pads. 

I'm on my own dime on the rears, but hoping if it's the fronts that I can get some "compensation" or credit from the indie shop that did the work. I trust them and plan to take the vehicle there for the 60k service. Also, I think the 60k service is pretty straight-forward and not a wallet buster. Just filters and ATF, IIRC. So I suppose things could have been worse if I were facing another $700 full brake job on top of, for example, a multi-thou$and dollar job scheduled maintenance interval.


----------



## Jetta_A4 (May 4, 1999)

I'll weigh in here. Our 2010 Croutan developed the pulsating/vibrating/shudder upon braking at ... I dunno, long time ago. I remember thinking "Isn't this car like brand new?" We just lived with it for a long while; wife's daily driver - mostly city use. Then it got so bad we brought it in for service. Dealer gave us 4 new discs (rotors) and linings, no charge in Feb '12 at 20k miles. We've put 4000 miles on it since, no issues; still brakes smooth as silk now.


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

So finally got around to taking the Routan in for the brake shuddering/squealing. Turns out it was only the fronts, thankfully. Covered under warranty by my local indie shop that did the work last November. Front rotors had warped pretty bad, and the shuddering and shimmying had gotten more pronounced in the last week or two. I'm at 61,250 miles now, so just under 9500 miles and 9 months on this set of front brakes. Interestingly, the front pads were worn about 65% already. One correction to my earlier summary (quoted below) is that the front pads being replaced were Napa's "Ultra Premium" line and not their Adaptive One hybrid ceramic pad. We were going to go with Adaptive One in November but they were out of stock, so went with the Ultra Premium line at that time. As I recall, those were Pagid ceramics in the Napa branded box. Napa is apparently using something else now for the Ultra Premium line and they're now semi-metallic pads. On the warranty work this time I had them put the Adaptive One line on just to see how they do. Only driven it a few miles, so no opinion yet. 

Had to go with the Napa "Premium" rotors again. They're still not making front rotors in the Ultra Premium line. Napa has an Ultra Premium rotor for the T&C and DGC, but the part numbers don't match at all to the Routan. The part numbers differed more than in just the auto mfr. number slot too, if that makes sense. Three or four numbers differed, indicating a totally different part. My shop said the Ultra Premium rotors are much better at heat dissipation, so that's too bad they're not available on the Routan. 

He inspected the rear brakes too and so far so good with the Raybestos Advanced Technology line. He said the rear rotors look great and the pads have about 10% wear and have worn evenly. But only have little over 5k miles and 6 months on the rears, so still have a ways to go yet. 

As far as the Napa line, I think I'm done with them after this set on the fronts. Napa covered the parts under warranty so had to stick with them this time, but next time when it's on my dime I'll either look to the Raybestos A.T. line, depending on how these rears do, and also consider other after-markets depending on how the postings here shape up. I'm definitely interested to see others post back about their experiences with the EBC slotted and brakeperformance.com dimple & slotted rotors. I hope they hold up better on these vehicles. 




Zambee500 said:


> Just to summarize my situation:
> Current: 59,600 on the odo. I'll be taking the van in at the end of the month for the 60k mile service.
> Rear brakes replaced on 2/16/12 at 55,950 miles with Raybestos Advanced Technology rotors and pads.
> Front brakes replaced on 11/18/11 at 51,925 miles with Napa "Premium" rotors and Napa Adaptive One "hybrid"-ceramic pads.


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

*TSB Info*

So I got some info from a mechanic I trust, who previously worked at a VW dealership (way before the Routan). Currently is at an independent shop, and gets a good deal of Chryco fleet vans. This information might have already been mentioned here, in this thread or another, but I thought it was worth repeating just in case.

The Chrysler TSB for the front brakes on the DGC and CT&C includes a warranty extension. The VW TSB does not mention a warranty extension, but it does provide updated part numbers. He said you have to walk VW dealerships through TSBs and new part numbers because they are not always aware of it, and (now me talking) it might particularly be the case when dealing with a vehicle that is not a "real" VW. One more thing, he said many manufacturers (and said Chrysler is definitely one) maintain 2 different "OEM" lines for brakes with different part numbers. One is the same OEM rolling off the factory (the good stuff) and the other is to allow the dealerships to compete with the Midas and Walmarts of the world and is cheaper in cost and quality. So you want to go in armed with the part#'s and TSB# information and spoon feed it to the dealership.

Anyway, the Chrysler TSB with the warranty extension is TSB# 05-007-11 and is dated October of last year, and covers 2009-2011 vehicles with brake codes BRE and BRG. It is essentially a warranty extension for pads and rotors, and gives some part numbers for some (hopefully?) improved things. You can google it if you want to read the TSB.

The Volkswagen version of the same TSB is 46-11-09, however it just shows it as a part improvement alone, no warranty extension.

The VW parts numbers are:

7B0-615-301-B (rotors, x2)
7B0-698-151-F (brake lining kit)


If the '11 and '12 have the same calipers and sizes but are not having the same brake problems, then hopefully this part improvement will help out the '09 and '10 model years.


----------



## argion (Aug 8, 2002)

*2011 Routan Brake Issue and TB Info/Question*

Instead of creating a new thread I will post to this one. I have a 2011 Routan with about 19k miles and we noticed the brake fading/pulsing at high speeds. 

Dealer did replace the front brakes and rotors for free. The following TB is listed in my paperwork: 

2028122 Anyone know how I can get more info on this TB? 

I didn't think about asking about a warranty extension mentioned since I am reading this post, after getting back home  

Part numbers for reference: 

7B0-615-301-C Brake Disc 
7B0-698-151-F BRK Lining 

My rear breaks are a bit low as well (at 5mm). Does anyone know if this bulletin covers them too?


----------



## VWroutanvanman (Feb 12, 2011)

*Dealer rip-off*

Many dealers are calling the warped rotor problem as a "wear item" and trying to wiggle out of the repair under warranty. Obviously, warped rotors are a safety item and need to be covered under the warranty, but sometimes you need to be a sqeaky wheel, as you are doing with VW Canada. Now, early worn out brakes are a different story, and you may not be able to push this through to be covered, but constantly pointing out that the Chryco vans (not just VW but all the vans), have a brake deficiency may get you something, if maybe only parts covered, then you pounce and say they admit the problem and should cover it at 100%. Good luck.


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

argion said:


> Instead of creating a new thread I will post to this one. I have a 2011 Routan with about 19k miles and we noticed the brake fading/pulsing at high speeds.
> 
> Dealer did replace the front brakes and rotors for free. The following TB is listed in my paperwork:
> 
> ...


 
The easiest way for me to describe if your rear rotors are warped is by doing the following. 

Drive on a nice straight quite road. While driving with radio/DVD off, lightly apply the brake pedal. If your van goes from quite inside to hearing a light thundering from the back and is repeatable EVERY time you apply the brakes your rear rotors are warped. 

The factory parts are junk, they made revisions, but brake issues are starting to pop up on 11's and I'm sure on 12'. I'd bet they finally made the rotors from better materials, BUT only to "extend" the time before they warp. So we're now pushing 38K (in under 2 years) and are officially out of warranty. My rears are thundering, but the fronts look good and feel good. So perhaps the fronts are lasting longer, but the rears still suck. Needless to say once the rears are metal to metal I'll go aftermarket for sure. Whether they're drilled, slotted, magical, or what ever, but not OEM that's for sure. I still love this van.


----------



## GrnMtnMan (Sep 18, 2012)

Haven't read all the posts in this thread, but thought I'd add to the discussion my recent experience.

We bought the 2010 Routan in November 2010 (new, off the lot). Currently has 16,500 miles and brought it in today for it's 2-year carefree maintenance appointment. Told the dealer that we had vibration when braking at moderate speeds. I assumed that this would be warranty work because every other car I've had didn't need brakes (or rotors) until 50k+.

The new service rep did not give me warm and fuzzies about this being done under warranty. Spoke to the service manager too a few hours later after finding several message boards, such as this one, with similar reports of premature rotor warping. The manager also was skeptical that it would be covered by warranty.

Got a call a few hours later that they'd do a one-time goodwill warranty replacement. I hate how they're making me think they're doing something special/ a favor when this is clearly a defect or design error. And I hate how they start with the assumption that we've been riding around with our foot on the brake.

I'll take the 'one-time' warranty replacement and worry about fighting a bigger battle if I have trouble in the future.


----------



## paf (Dec 6, 2010)

so it's been a while (about 8K miles) since I posted on this... 

I am at 24K and the brakes are shot again. Tragic shudder when braking. I already know what my dealer will say -- I've been there few times already and actually, I am getting tired of this myself, not to mention my dealer who has told me few times that brakes are a maintenance item. He just failed to recognize that I need to change the brakes more often than oil on my car.... 

I am going to write a nice letter to VoA pointing them to this and few other threads showing that the brakes are a constant problem and are below reasonable lifetime expectancy. 

I think power comes in numbers, so if you have brake issues, you should also voice your concern to VoA not just the dealer.


----------



## jwblaze (Mar 31, 2011)

*Routan Brakes*

Common issue, the guts are a chrysler after all, I have replaced the fronts twice and the rears once (pads). I have repalced back rotos once at 40k and fronts at 60k, they do seem to eat through rotors quick but not sure what else can be done, decent amount of weight in these cars. Braking systems might be a tad under sized, I have an 09 SEL, oil consumption and brakes are the only issues so far, at just over 60k miles could be worse. But I also do the work myself, im sure if I had to pay someone to do brakes I wouldn't be happy either. My 2 cents.


----------



## ClownCar (Feb 16, 1999)

I had front brakes resurfaced on my 2011 at 8000km, replaced at 32,000km and they were starting to shudder again at 45,000km. 

Just one of the reason that I gave up and traded in the Routan last week. I don't have time for this kind of foolishness.


----------



## VW_Enthu1 (Oct 23, 2004)

I think the last post really sums this one up. 

When you spend $30K+ (approx) on a new van, you can't be having to argue with the dealer about nonsense like "driving with your foot on the break" or "it's a heavy van" when everyone knows there was either a design or materials issue from the start from Chrysler. Chrysler didn't know it was a heavy van when they designed the brakes? There's nothing to discuss on this. While I don't directly blame VW (Chrysler did the brakes I assume), VW has allowed themselves to fall right back into the same "poor maintenance and support" perception in the marketplace. 

It gets to the point where you just say "I can't keep scr*wing with this". The previous post did what many owners of VW's have done in the last two decades...they got sick of the headache and dumped the car. Big shock in he VW world.. 

I'm not even going to comment about the absolute absurdity of 2-3 yr old V6 engines in 2012 burning a quart of oil between oil changes....(you've got to be _kidding_ me)...


----------



## jwblaze (Mar 31, 2011)

Let’s put it this way, brakes wear out, tires wear out, things wear out, they are designed to do that, your driving habits play a large part of that. Oil consumption issue, yes its stupid, but you’d be surprised how many makes on the road have the same issue, the owners just never check oil level anymore so how are they to know. I know a few people that have the same oil consumption issue with the 2.5 subaru engines. There is no flawless car out there, if it’s not one thing it’s another. People these days are just so disposable, van burns oil sell it buy a Toyota, it doesn’t burn oil but if you drive it on winter roads where they use salt then the spare tire falls off the bottom. (Recall ID # 82105):thumbup:


----------



## VWroutanvanman (Feb 12, 2011)

*'10 w/o brake problems*

A friend has a '10 Routan SE with 9,000 miles on it, and the discs look new, very smooth with no ridges, and no vibration when braking. His build date is 8/10, one of the later models of that MY. Whereas my '10 had ridges in the discs at 3500 miles, and the rears had to be replaced at 6,000 miles. Mine was built in 11/09. The difference between the two? Could be driving style in combo with ours being loaded all the time. This is the eighth Chrysler van we've had over the years, and in my opinion, they have all been underbraked. Are there any others out there with '09s or '10s without brake problems?


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

jwblaze said:


> Let’s put it this way, brakes wear out, tires wear out, things wear out, they are designed to do that, your driving habits play a large part of that. Oil consumption issue, yes its stupid, but you’d be surprised how many makes on the road have the same issue, the owners just never check oil level anymore so how are they to know. I know a few people that have the same oil consumption issue with the 2.5 subaru engines. There is no flawless car out there, if it’s not one thing it’s another. People these days are just so disposable, van burns oil sell it buy a Toyota, it doesn’t burn oil but if you drive it on winter roads where they use salt then the spare tire falls off the bottom. (Recall ID # 82105):thumbup:


Yeah, brakes are wear items by design. Nobody is arguing with that. Folks are arguing with the premature wear problems with these vehicles. Brakes are designed to wear, but not every 6-12k miles. And at $400 a pop for fronts and $700 a pop for both axles, that's BS for the mfr to call it a wear item and let it go at that. The oil consumption problem sucks, yes, but you can live with it without breaking the bank if (and I can't believe I'm having to say this) you have to add *4 qts* between scheduled oil changes. That's an extra $35 a year tops. And if it's worse than that, then VW/Chryco break down the engine on their own dime and *fix* the problem. With the brakes, however, rather than redesign them and fix the problem, it seems Chryco/VW's response is to eat the cost of rotors/pads and labor thru the warranty period (or indefinitely in a non-commital way with the unspecified warranty extension) and then the owner is on his/her own having to potentially pay $700 a year in "routine" maintenance just for the brakes *every year or less*. That's BS for a $30k vehicle. Or any vehicle really.

People may complain if the brakes lasted 20-30k miles, but would likely live with it without getting too upset about it. But it's simply not acceptable to have brakes last 6-12k miles and the mfr. do nothing to fix the problem. If GM light-duty trucks can get 100k miles on a set of brakes, there's no reason Chryco can't fix the problem and design brakes that can last a bit longer on a freaking minivan.


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

I should add that it's not really even a premature wear item on these vehicles. The brakes barely have time to wear before they're shot. The rotors warp and you have to replace rotors & pads with 90%+ of brake material remaining. It's not a wear problem; it's a warpage problem.


----------



## paf (Dec 6, 2010)

> I should add that it's not really even a premature wear item on these vehicles. The brakes barely have time to wear before they're shot. The rotors warp and you have to replace rotors & pads with 90%+ of brake material remaining.


That exactly sums up the issue.

:thumbdown:


----------



## Volvos Rock (Oct 13, 2011)

just about 27k and all 4 are shot again...find out if VW will stand behind them next wednesday:banghead:


----------



## ntotrr (Aug 5, 2009)

I have had the same problems with front brakes that many other have. Mine seemed to last a bit longer. The first issue with warped front rotors was around 8,000 miles. The dealer resurfaced the rotors and replaced the pads. Within about 5,000 miles, the problem was back. The dealer replaced the rotors and pads, despite VW calling for a resurfacing of the rotors. The service manager always went above and beyond for me (this is our third VW from this particular dealer, Riverhead Bay on Long Island) and replaced the rotors rather than resurfacing. He mentioned that VW does not recommend resurfacing of rotors on their own cars so they shouldn't on the Chrysler built van. 

This van is simply too heavy for the rotors and they overheat and warp. The new rotors the dealer installed lasted for a decent time but when they warped, I took some advice on this forum and bought new vented and cross-drilled rotors from an eBay seller for both front and back. With about 30,000 miles on the van, I replaced the rotors and pads all around. The van no has 80,000 miles on it with much of it being around-town driving. The front pads needed replacement last week, the first since I put the vented cross-drilled rotors on. The rotors barely needed any resurfacing, I could have left them as they were. These rotors have solved the warping problem for me.


----------



## PaulAP (May 21, 2009)

ntotrr said:


> I took some advice on this forum and bought new vented and cross-drilled rotors from an eBay seller for both front and back. ... These rotors have solved the warping problem for me.


Do you remember what brand of rotors they were?


----------



## Volvos Rock (Oct 13, 2011)

The van went to the dealer yestarday. After having it 6 hours, I get the can not reproduce call. Go yo pick it up and hay why not take the tech for a ride....5 minutes later have the tech feeling it, and agreeing it is probably all 4. The warranty coordinator "needs to call VW" to get it approved. I explained very nicely about the TSBs and the Chryco warranty extension...we'll see.


----------



## ntotrr (Aug 5, 2009)

PaulAP said:


> Do you remember what brand of rotors they were?


The eBay seller is atlautosports. There is no brand name noted in the auction (sold for a "but it now" price). The price is very reasonable and they have performed very well for me. Here is a current auction to fit my 2009:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280832935722?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## Volvos Rock (Oct 13, 2011)

Brakeperformance.com has awsome rotors as well and will be my source when the time comes to buy them. I have them on my Volvo paired with Akabeno euro pads and could not be more pleased. They are the manufacturer and warranty warpage.


----------



## DozerCSX (Feb 17, 2013)

*Brakeperformance.com = solution*

Guys - I have been reading with interest this thread and others - I recently bought a 2010 Routan with all the bells and whistles for a ridiculously low price (probably due to people being aware of this problem) - I simply factored in the cost of a high performance aftermarket rotor/pad kit plus installation into the cost of the purchase - it's a no-brainer, and it's a straightforward fix to a common problem, not exclusive to Routans. After much investigation and review of many good aftermarket kits (PowerSlot, EBC, PowerStop, etc.), I settled on Brakeperformance.com and their latest package deal - 4x slotted and dimpled rotors plus brakepads for a little over $300 for everything, including shipping - with another $225 in installation, I notice it's cost me less than what many on this thread have paid for a single factory axle repair (which won't fix the problem).

One important note I found is that NO ONE who has ever upgraded to aftermarket brakes and pads has ever posted a single response that it didn't completely fix the problem - so it appears you won't go wrong with any high quality, reputable upgrade - just DON'T cheep out on this one.

What sold me on the Brakeperformance.com package was the great price, universal great reviews, plus a lifetime warranty against warping or cracking - no other provider comes close on this. I've had them installed on my Routan for about a month now - after careful break-in, pedal effort appears to be lower, stopping is smooth, vibration-free and quiet, and frankly, it looks about as bitchin' as any discrete upgrade you'll ever put on your minivan... ;-) My wife notices the differences in quiet and smoothness - will keep this thread posted as things progress, but I anticipate no problems.


----------



## vrsantana (Sep 25, 2006)

Dozer, I couldn't agree more. This is exactly what I have done and I am happy. I've been posting on a different thread on this same issue and I posted some pics of the rotors that I had installed. I'll be posting again once there's about 1000 miles on them to let people know how it fares. So far, so good though. Good luck!


----------



## sl190man (Apr 27, 2010)

*Routan rotors*

I read your submission on the Routan brakes. If the steering is shaking on brake application, it is probably cracked web(s) on the rotor which them allow the rotor surfaces to expand at different rates on brake application. That failure has very little to do with your type of driving but has a lot to do with the poor quality product being manufactured. If you check, you will probably find out that the rotors are built in the Pacific Rim. Love those Chinese parts! Try installing a set of Zimmerman rotors for that vehicle which are still built in Europe. Yes, VW should stand behind their product. However, the dealer is probably not standing behind you.


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

OK, yesterday I finally had my fronts replaced again. This time with the Brakeperformance.com dimpled & slotted with their premium semi-metallic pads. I've only driven 10-15 miles, so can't offer much in the way of opinion yet. They started off so noisy and grindy that I thought they were installed wrong. The zinc coating also smokes and stinks something else while it wears off the surface. It took a full 10 miles with lots of the break-in procedure of 45>5 mpg emergency braking without stopping before the noise and smell really started to go away. Drove it again this morning and mostly quiet, so I am optimistic. In terms of performance, I can't say yet. They don't seem any better/worse than other brand new brakes. I was pleased with the performance on the previous two sets, before they warped anyway, just not the longevity. I'll post back when I have some more miles and the pads are seated in and everything is fully broken in. 

For those keeping score at home, I had the front brakes replaced within 4k miles after I bought the vehicle used. I have no way of knowing how long those had been on there. 

First replacements were Napa Premium rotors and Ultra Premium pads. Got 9 months and 9500 miles on them before having them replaced under warranty with the same rotors and switched to Napa's Adaptive One hybrid ceramic pads. Got 3 days short of a year and 10,800 miles on this second set of Napa brakes. I should point out that they started warping back in February or March and I bought the brakeperformance.com brakes at the end of March. Managed to stretch the second set of Napas for 4 months or so before the warping just got too bad to drive anymore. 

Also should note that the rears I had replaced about 18 months and over 16k miles ago with Raybestos Advanced Technology rotors and ceramic pads and they are only 10-15% worn now. Wear is even and everything looks good. So I am very pleased with them. I probably should have put the same on the front to begin with, but they were harder to find for the fronts.


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Shortly(I hope) I will have a right up on changing the rotors out, for the guy on the fence on whether to do it at home or not. I too bought the BP rotors, dimpled and slotted. After bedding them in I had a steering wheel wobble at highway speed braking when coming down an off ramp but nothing around town at all. I was fit to be tied. Not to mention the card in the spokes is way too much for me to handle--lifetime warranty or not. I can hear my wife coming down the street--before she turns into out neighborhood, we live in a very quiet area. We even found ourselves driving under the speed limit so that we could coast to a stop and not have to use the brakes. So I spoke with BP and they were more than gracious to swap out my new rotors and said that possibly there was a machining issue. I also had a small piece of metal fall off the rotor surface where the brake pads are. Totally not their fault, just the nature of the material, probably a small air pocket and they looked perfect before I installed them. Again warrantied no problems. I also requested (at my dollar loss) to switch to the straight cross drilled rotors to cut down the noise. Since I have received them I have not had an opportunity to swap the rotors yet. I can say the dimpled and slotted with their free brake pads are a major improvement. I know some guys say the brakes power and stopping ability sucks from the factory they are unsafe yada, yada, yada, ours have always been a tad sensitive--like I could almost put you through the windshield, and now the BP's are better yet. So with my unfortunate early issues, I'm thrilled with their customer service and I know once I swap my straight cross drilleds in I'll be stoked. 

Here's some teasers from my shop at my house. Yes that is my lift, and I still have the dealer do the oil changes for extended warranty purposes.


----------



## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback and write up. Nice lift. That makes things a lot easier. I was just happy that I could fit under the Routan to do the oil change without a jack.


----------



## Chedman13 (May 30, 2012)

You have a lift... in your garage...

[bow down]


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Chedman13 said:


> You have a lift... in your garage...
> 
> [bow down]


Yep, with as many cars and toys as I own/restore/work on it's a must. I live in my shop and I love me some toys!


----------



## flyingdog (5 mo ago)

Zambee500 said:


> Sorry, I may have missed this reading this thread and other similar threads on the brake problems, and apologies if I did. But has anyone had after-market pads/rotors get chewed up fast? I see that a few folks have put after-market pads/rotors on their Routan (from brakeperformance.com and advanced auto, etc.), but unless I missed it, I haven't seen any postings about the after-market stuff getting getting warped and chewed up. I know it's anecdotal, but everything seems to involve just the OEM stuff that the dealership keeps putting on. So has _anyone_ put on after-market pads & rotors and have them wear out in


We did Akebono rotors and ceramic pads and the rotors lasted 23k miles. Not great in my opinion but I see now others did worse.


----------



## flyingdog (5 mo ago)

58kafer said:


> Shortly(I hope) I will have a right up on changing the rotors out, for the guy on the fence on whether to do it at home or not. I too bought the BP rotors, dimpled and slotted. After bedding them in I had a steering wheel wobble at highway speed braking when coming down an off ramp but nothing around town at all. I was fit to be tied. Not to mention the card in the spokes is way too much for me to handle--lifetime warranty or not. I can hear my wife coming down the street--before she turns into out neighborhood, we live in a very quiet area. We even found ourselves driving under the speed limit so that we could coast to a stop and not have to use the brakes. So I spoke with BP and they were more than gracious to swap out my new rotors and said that possibly there was a machining issue. I also had a small piece of metal fall off the rotor surface where the brake pads are. Totally not their fault, just the nature of the material, probably a small air pocket and they looked perfect before I installed them. Again warrantied no problems. I also requested (at my dollar loss) to switch to the straight cross drilled rotors to cut down the noise. Since I have received them I have not had an opportunity to swap the rotors yet. I can say the dimpled and slotted with their free brake pads are a major improvement. I know some guys say the brakes power and stopping ability sucks from the factory they are unsafe yada, yada, yada, ours have always been a tad sensitive--like I could almost put you through the windshield, and now the BP's are better yet. So with my unfortunate early issues, I'm thrilled with their customer service and I know once I swap my straight cross drilleds in I'll be stoked.
> 
> Here's some teasers from my shop at my house. Yes that is my lift, and I still have the dealer do the oil changes for extended warranty purposes.


how did these rotors work out? I need to find a better solution for our VW Routan 2012 with warped rotors again.


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

flyingdog said:


> how did these rotors work out? I need to find a better solution for our VW Routan 2012 with warped rotors again.


You are quoting posts that are a decade or so old. I don't believe 58Kafer has been around the last 3-4 years, after getting rid of the Routan I believe for a Metris (unless I am confusing him with someone else). That being said, I think I recall his experience with BrakePerformance-dot-com brake kits as I went through similar experience. 

The *dimpled* & slotted rotors are BP's highest rated (based on price/warranty) rotor & pad kits. But they are very loud, both with break-in procedure and even after broken in the dimpled rotors make a whooshing sound when braking. That being said, when I had the standard duty brakes (see below), the BP *dimple* & slotted rotors were the only rotors i ever had installed that actually outlived the pads. I chose to live with the obnoxious sound and the rotors held up longer than any others I had. So they are good. My recollection is that 58kafer (unless I am confusing him with someone else) returned the dimple & slotted rotors due to the obnoxious noise and exchanged them for *drilled* & slotted rotors, which are the second highest premium rotors on BP-dot-com's website with a small price concessions and slightly less warranty (still very good). And the drilled got rid of the whooshing noise, and IIRC 58kafer had good luck with in terms of longevity. So if you go BrakePerformance-dot-com route, perhaps consider the drilled & slotted rotors instead of dimpled.

An alternative option is the PowerStop kit with the Z36 "Truck & Towing" performance pads and drilled/slotted rotors. They are available at many retailers, including RockAuto which likely has best prices. I also have experience with these and they are also very good and similar in performance/longevity as the BrakePerformance-dot-com, and as I recall the PowerStops were cheaper and much quicker because they are off-the shelf ready to go. (When you order BrakePerformance, they take a week or two to manufacture and ship.)

Do you have the "Standard Duty" or "Heavy Duty" brakes? The HD brakes are listed in parts catalogs as "Dual Piston" calipers and 330mm / 328mm rotors (front/rear). The SD brakes had smaller single piston calipers and 302mm rotors on the front and rear. The SD brakes are under-sized and overheat and warp very easily. If you have SD brakes, the best solution is to upgrade to the HD brakes. It is a bit more expensive because you have to also upgrade the calipers in addition to rotors and pads, and also the larger dust shields on the wheel hub. I upgraded and that by far was the best option both in terms of braking power and also longevity of the rotors. I also did it in phases and upgraded only the fronts when I trashed the last set of SD front rotors, and then later when it was time to finally do the rear brakes I upgraded to HD rear brakes a couple years after I did the front brakes.

For the SD to HD brake conversion, there is a nice write-up sticky thread on chryslerminivan-dot-net if you look in the 5th Gen vans (which is what a Routan is).

Best of luck....


----------



## flyingdog (5 mo ago)

thanks a lot zambee500

does the HD caliper upgrade affect the ABS functionality? 

how can I tell if I have SD or HD calipers?


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

flyingdog said:


> does the HD caliper upgrade affect the ABS functionality?
> 
> how can I tell if I have SD or HD calipers?


Not aware of any ABS issues and haven't heard of any either. There is some debate about if you upgrade to larger brake rotors/calipers then whether you also should upgrade the brake master cylinder/reservoir and the brake booster. I believe the thinking is due to additional brake fluid. I did not change those out though, and have not really had any issues, and the brake pedal feels fine and is "normal" in that sense. With much improved braking and longevity of the rotors. I believe if you do decide to upgrade to larger brakes and also go with the larger reservoir/master cylinder, then you also have to upgrade the brake booster. The SD brake booster does not play well with the HD reservoir/master cylinder...unless you like your pedal on the floor.

The HD brakes have two pistons on the brake calipers. The SD brake calipers have 1 piston. Perhaps go to Rock Auto or even AutoZone website and look up 2014 Grand Caravan or T&C so it will show you both options, and look up calipers. You should be able to see in the photos on the websites how the two calipers look different.

Also, you can tell by looking how large your rotors are behind the wheel. Not sure if this will let me post the link, but see post #2 of this thread:








HD Brake Upgrade DIY


I never got around and also forgot to make a thread about my HD brake upgrade on my 2009 Caravan, which others had been asking me to make for some time now. I upgraded my brakes because they were due for new pads and rotors all around, and the front had the braking shake (sometimes quite bad...




www.chryslerminivan.net


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

This is a lengthier thread on the same thing. The first couple of posts have some part numbers, and I believe later pages in the thread (maybe page 3 or 4) also had some tips on sourcing the parts.








5th Generation - Brake Types/Modifications


The 5th Generations can be fitted with a regular single piston brake package or a heavy duty dual piston package, depending on year and options selected. The regular brake package can be upgraded to the heavy duty package. This Sticky on 5th Generation brakes starts out with reference to these...




www.chryslerminivan.net






To be clear, the HD brakes first began showing up in the Chrysler/Dodge/VW vans in the 2011 (late) and 2012 model years. I think they first showed up on the Dodge "R/T" (sport) version of the Grand Caravan. It was not across the board all at once though. By later years (2013 or 2014 and later), I believe all of the Gen 5 vans with 17" or larger wheels had the HD brakes. But since the base model has 16" wheels the SD brakes continued for later model years for those vehicles. The HD brakes will only fit behind the 17" and larger wheels.


----------



## flyingdog (5 mo ago)

for this I replaced the front rotors with Mopar OEM. I will post again after a few more weeks. So far so good.


----------



## Houpty GT (Feb 23, 2011)

I have never had an issue with the standard duty brakes while using metallic pads. The last owner complained about the brakes and said he got rid of the horrible ceramic pads and put the metallic pads on. The brakes had a fairly normal squeak and the wife complained about it. Instead of doing a service for squeaky brakes, I figured I would just replace the brakes (calipers, rotors, pads, and dust shields) at all 4 corners along with the master cylinder and brake booster with the heavy duty parts. It was several hundred dollars but I figure I will not have to worry about it even when towing. Performance is the same for normal driving and the wife is happy that the squeak is gone. 
I would recommend metallic pads as the easy solution. You can also just change the front calipers, rotors, and pads if you continue to have front brake issues. If you do the rears, that is when the master cylinder change is necessary, as you will run out of pedal travel. 
Rotors do not really warp. They are just wearing irregularly because of deposits caused by overheating pads or axial runout in the rotor scrubbing on the pads during highway driving. A bigger rotor has more stopping power because of leverage but the main benefit is that the extra iron can hold more heat and this keeps the temperature down.


----------

