# Supercharged and Turbocharged



## Rbothell (May 30, 2005)

From July 2005 Car & Driver "Dirt Road" section
"Volkswagen is nearly ready to start producing a supercharged and turbocharged four-cylinder engine. The supercharger creates torque right off idle, when the turbocharger would be asleep; and the turbocharger takes over pressurizing the intake at higher rpm, when the supercharger becomes less efficient. The idea is not new. Italian automaker Lancia employed the double-charger system in its Delta S4 rally car in the mid 80's. The VW 1.4 liter engine will make about 168 horsepower and is supposedly more fuel efficient that a merely turbocharged 1.4 liter four-cylinder. If the engine sells, VW may consider bringing more double-charged engines to market."
Looks like things may start getting a bit more interesting http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 40ozcasualties (Apr 27, 2005)

GM and 'Detroit Diesel' (A subcompany) did this in the late 60's to 70's on their diesel engines. As you diesel guys know a diesel engine is quite inefficent without either one or the other but GM got away with putting a supercharged/ turbocharged V6 in their dual axel trucks instead of a more common V8. just a tid bit to show when this was being used. i think it sounds like an awsome idea. cant wait to start seeing some dual charged VW's =D


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## EUROtuneD1.8T (Jun 7, 2005)

that is definately an intresting concept. its been around for years just not that common. i would definatly like to see more of it.


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## LregG (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (EUROtuneD1.8T)*









Here we have a "compound charged" 1.8t in an a2 golf. It uses the superchrger up until the turbo spools up and then the electromagnetic hub driving the charger is de-energised so you don't get the cherger dragging power from the engine when it's not in use.
Simple idea but very effective as you can use a sttupidly small pulley on the charger to get good low down boost. This particular car can spin the tyres at 1500rpm in most gears!!


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## BrightGreenB5 (Dec 7, 2000)

*Re: Supercharged and Turbocharged (Rbothell)*

This is a neat concept. Does anyone know why it never became commonplace? Was it because of reliability?


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## LregG (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: Supercharged and Turbocharged (BrightGreenB5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BrightGreenB5* »_This is a neat concept. Does anyone know why it never became commonplace? Was it because of reliability?

It's really only something that true petrol heads would appreciate so the common vw owner wouldn't take up on the idea of having something else (expensive) bolted to the car that could go wrong. Beacuse of this i doubt if many manufactures would take the risk of marketing a compound cahrged car to the masses


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## NomadicR32 (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: (LregG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LregG* »_








Here we have a "compound charged" 1.8t in an a2 golf. It uses the superchrger up until the turbo spools up and then the electromagnetic hub driving the charger is de-energised so you don't get the cherger dragging power from the engine when it's not in use.
Simple idea but very effective as you can use a sttupidly small pulley on the charger to get good low down boost. This particular car can spin the tyres at 1500rpm in most gears!!


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## Peter062567 (Oct 11, 2004)

*Re: Supercharged and Turbocharged (Rbothell)*

Interesting.
I thought the torque on the 1.8t was fine, having traded an Acura Integra GS-R 1.8 Vtec for a Jetta Wolfsburg 2001. Then, I drove a MB 230 K w/ a 1.8 supercharged engine. I can say that the torque is much better on the supercharged engine - which makes great city driving. But, I prefer the power output of the VW turbo, especially when I drive in Colorado's rocky mountains. I wouldn't want anything but a turbo there.
So, I don't know if I would opt for the complexity of both a turbo and a supercharger. I guess the real answer is how the car is used.
Why not an electric assist turbo? An electric motor could spin the turbo (pre-spool) whenever the engine exhaust flow was insufficient to turn the turbine at a fast enough speed. The electri assist could even be cabin controlled, allowing the driver to turn it off for economy, or change the threshold spin on the electric motor as the performance situation dictated (i.e. drag racing at a stop light







or such).


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## mk2_1.8t (Jul 12, 2004)

there is an old chev engine that does that, i forget what it is but the s/c is used for down low torque and the turbo for the upper rpm's


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## Shawn M. (Oct 15, 2002)

ooooo I hope VW does produce this and sell it here...I want it my a2 GTI


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## MrGTI (Feb 14, 2000)

It was rumoured that the Concept R might have a double-charged engine. I'd happily buy a car with an engine like that! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dmband0041 (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (Shawn M.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Shawn M.* »_ooooo I hope VW does produce this and sell it here...I want it my a2 GTI

haha you'll prolly have to wait till a brand new VW gets rear ended, cause im thinking the double charged engines will come attached to a new car...


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## gigahz (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (dmband0041)*

There are turbo kits soon to be available for the cobalt ss in the name of twin charging.


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## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (gigahz)*

i believe that the rubo kit would replace the supercharger, not be added to it, but i could wrong.


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## Jolksvagen (Jun 6, 2005)

*Re: Supercharged and Turbocharged (Rbothell)*

Bumping for such a silly idea. You need not to be getting where you are going faster than the speed limit currently. So why to be wasting money and time...such stupidity


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## Kilya (Nov 2, 2004)

Ummm Silly idea? Its the shizaight!!!! Those that drive a 2.0 or a Tdi probably dont care much about power(most of them at least=) I drive a 1.8t. And id love to have more powere down low. It not about speed limits or about getting from a-b its about having some fun and having an all aroudn quick car is FUN=]


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## MrGTI (Feb 14, 2000)

Agreed








This is not an engine that will appeal to a TDI owner. This is an engine for the performance minded person. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## LregG (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (nathankaufman)*

The latest generation of tdi's can be really well tuned thanks to common rail injection. A tuning company in the u.k. has reported to have got 208 engine bhp with a chip, exhaust and induction kit on the very latest golf TDi engine


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## Village Idiot™ (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: (LregG)*

god, can you imagine how much money it would cost to do anything significant to that motor? Say vcw produced a decent sized us model with two chargers. You'd have to buy a new super charger and turbo charges plus intercoolers for both. You're looking at $10,000 for an upgrade, considering the going prices or a normal turbo upgrade and cost of just a supercharger....


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## MrGTI (Feb 14, 2000)

Nah. You'd just need a couple hundred to get it chipped.








Forced induction baby. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## NYC20AE (Jul 2, 2003)

*Re: Supercharged and Turbocharged (Rbothell)*

Lancia did this in their rallye cars in the 80's with the Delta S4 and made like 19,000hp, OK like 470. Car did very well and killed everyone (including a couple of drivers) from about 82 to 86.
http://www.uniquecarsandparts....a.htm scroll down


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## MrGTI (Feb 14, 2000)

Damn good read. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I actually remember seeing pictures of that car back in the day.
This sums it up nicely....

_Quote »_A turbocharger is generally regarded as the most efficient means of forced induction, but it requires higher revs (hence a lot of exhaust gas) to operate. The result is poor low-speed power and the presense of turbo lag.
A supercharger performs strongly and instantly right from idle, but it is rahter inefficient at high rpm. For a rally car, a flat torque curve over a wide range of rpm is always crucial


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