# Are FSIs as "bad" as I'm reading?



## 90Corrado (Nov 15, 2000)

I'm starting to second guess buying a '07 Passat after doing a bunch of reading, stories of cam follower disasters and people having to replace it every 5K or 10k miles has me a bit spooked. So is it as bad as people make out on The Internetz or what? Would a TSI be a better choice? I know, a whole 'nother can of worms.


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## viziers (Jun 22, 2008)

*nope*

Nope they are not as bad as you may think.. yes you will need to add the cam follower into your oil changes.. 

If it helps I have an 05.5 A4 with a gt76 and currently pushing 174,000 with no issues.. The gt76 has been on the car for the last 40k+



vizi


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

I don't add the followers into my oil changes. I am at 124k miles, replaced the first follower at around 70k miles, second at around 105k and both of them looked good. Revo stage 1 since 25k miles. I have had very almost no problems with my engine.


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

FSI motors are rugged. Just replace the known weak points with newer improved components (DV, PCV). Just check cam follower now and then. 

The one thing that annoys me a bit (much more than above) is the oil consumption. BPY motors tend to drink it for breakfast lunch and dinner (and desert too).


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## azunderg (Apr 29, 2009)

bostonaudi1 said:


> FSI motors are rugged. Just replace the known weak points with newer improved components (DV, PCV). Just check cam follower now and then.
> 
> The one thing that annoys me a bit (much more than above) is the oil consumption. BPY motors tend to drink it for breakfast lunch and dinner (and desert too).


this...


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## jebglx (Jul 13, 2000)

bostonaudi1 said:


> The one thing that annoys me a bit (much more than above) is the oil consumption. BPY motors tend to drink it for breakfast lunch and dinner (and desert too).


no doubt :laugh:. i need a tanker parked in my back yard

70k on my 07 GTI. APR flashed since it was 2 months old & lives in the 93 program. my CEL just came on...looks to be the N205 valve

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Engine/Electrical/ES281138/

anyone know where i can find an instructional on how to replace it?

going to change the cam follower soon


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

bostonaudi1 said:


> FSI motors are rugged. Just replace the known weak points with newer improved components (DV, PCV). Just check cam follower now and then.
> 
> The one thing that annoys me a bit (much more than above) is the oil consumption. BPY motors tend to drink it for breakfast lunch and dinner (and desert too).



this :thumbup:

check oil whenever you fill up with gas, top off in-between changes and your good.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

If you have all the latest oem fixes and revisions (latest version DV, PVC, flapper motor, cam) the only thing you really need to pay attention to is the cam follower. Fortunately most of us who have owned our FSI since 07' have had all these things addressed by now. I change mine out every 20k miles after having the original one punch thru at 80k miles (cam and pump covered under extended warranty). Crazy as it may sound I would need to see records that the follower FAILED and the latest revision cam was replaced under warranty before buying one. I can deal with old revision DV and PVC (easy oem and aftermarket fixes). I do not want to be replacing a camshaft because a follower failed and only a pump was replaced. or its simply a low mile car with soft cam lobe destined to fail in the future. I dont too care to have an expensive flapper motor replaced out of pocket either but I guess I could deal with that.


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## Scum Frog (May 30, 2011)

As stated the Cam Follower is the weak point.

With my '07 Jetta 2.0T the dealer did the following on warrenty right after I bought it last spring and have not had any issues since.

Cam Follower
Camshaft
Fuel Pump
Tensioner
Adjuster


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

The cam follower isn't as much an issue with the oem hpfp, but will require checking/replacing the follower every 5k to 20k miles if you upgrade the hpfp.

Other than that, regular maintenance should include keeping the intake valves free of carbon build-up by either adding a catch-can system or doing a blow-by cleaning of them every 10k to 20k miles. Both will slow the build-up down but will not completely stop it. So eventually you will be getting mysterious misfires and you will need to do a manual valve cleaning. 

Other than these two, you have regular maintenance. Fluid changing, plugs, belts(timing & accessory), coils, filters, and occasionally a bad pcv & or breather tube, and DV. 

If you'd rather not be bothered or are more of a hands-on person, you can set these up to accommodate either style.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Don't forget the carbon buildup problem that plagues all the direct-injection engines and robs the low-end torque and fuel mileage. 

But all in all, the engine is only as bad as the owner makes it!! I work on these cars daily....usually 4-6 FSI cars in there. If the owner takes care of the car, addresses the known issues as they come up, and uses the correct oil......they have very minimal issues. But those who use Joe Blow's $29.95 oil change special every 5-7K miles is just asking for issues! Chains rattle, followers wear quicker than normal and tensioners fail causing engines to fail!!

My GLI is a VERY early 2006 and was built in 2005. You name the FSI issues and it has had them and been addressed. But it's gotten me to 169K miles without anything catastrohic happening. Been an overall blast and is heavily modified. But the engine still holds up strong.
-J. Hines


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## jebglx (Jul 13, 2000)

ROH ECHT said:


> *The cam follower isn't as much an issue with the oem hpfp, but will require checking/replacing the follower every 5k to 20k miles if you upgrade the hpfp.*


good point...a buddy of mine found out the hard way ($$$$) :facepalm:


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## 90Corrado (Nov 15, 2000)

Thanks for the feedback. This is a wagon to get me & the fam around, I'll get some rims and maybe I'll get it flashed, but I don't know if I'll go down that road since I have the Corrado for fun. Just want something dependable and semi fun to drive on a daily basis.


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

182,000 here on my '06. love it. 
especially after VOA sent me my rebate check for the cam/HPFP replacement at 85,000. ....and the title....

The only thing they still owe me for is $$ for the entire AC system that had to be replaced since the compressor siezed and shot metal filings through the whole system. I think I'll be waiting a while...


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

No, it's a great motor.

I love my car, and have not put a dime in it except for maintenance.

Which means oil change & cam follower. 

My wife has a TSI tiguan, and her car does start easier than mine. My FSI cranks once and catches on the second crank. Her TSI catches when i glance at the key just right. But seriously I do notice that it starts AMAZING while mine starts really well - if that makes any sense.


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

Personally

I change the oil every 5k

Cam Followers every 40k

My car consumes 1qt of oil between changes.

I think it's a great motor. Haven't had a single issue other than ignition coils, but my car is early and had the first revision coils stock, newer coils are much better.


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## viziers (Jun 22, 2008)

bostonaudi1 said:


> FSI motors are rugged. Just replace the known weak points with newer improved components (DV, PCV). Just check cam follower now and then.
> 
> The one thing that annoys me a bit (much more than above) is the oil consumption. BPY motors tend to drink it for breakfast lunch and dinner (and desert too).



No lie, mine does not drink any oil and I do my oil changes every 5k and check the follower and replace the CF at 10k every time.... Theres a few of us on Audizine in the B7 section that don't burn any oil but those people all have an 05.5 A4 model like me...


vizi


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

bostonaudi1 said:


> FSI motors are rugged. Just replace the known weak points with newer improved components (DV, PCV). Just check cam follower now and then.
> 
> The one thing that annoys me a bit (much more than above) is the oil consumption. BPY motors tend to drink it for breakfast lunch and dinner (and desert too).



Something is wrong with your motor or PCV system.

That is NOT normal behavior.

I have 40k on the clock and barely use ANY oil, like other people have stated. I just changed out my DV to the latest version, and was prepared to have oil dump out of the piping on me - it was perfectly clean inside.


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Something is wrong with your motor or PCV system.
> 
> That is NOT normal behavior.
> 
> I have 40k on the clock and barely use ANY oil, like other people have stated. I just changed out my DV to the latest version, and was prepared to have oil dump out of the piping on me - it was perfectly clean inside.


Is your motor stock? 

Talk to any techs who work on these daily, and the general consensus is these motors tend to use rather high amounts of oil. Admittedly likely worse with higher boost than normal. My engine is in perfect running order, just likes oil. But this should tell you everything, the bar set by VW itself for abnormal consumption is 1qt per 1000 mi, that's 5 quarts between 5k oil changes! Normal? :screwy:


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## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

I am so tired of the cam follower hype. Its not really an issue anymore with the revised parts


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

theguy1084 said:


> I am so tired of the cam follower hype. Its not really an issue anymore with the revised parts


That is not entirely true. It's still a maint. item and must be checked/replaced. I've replaced just as many "B" revision camshafts at the shop in 2007-2008 cars. So it's still a fact of just catching the follower before it starts to wear through. Once all the wear-in coating is gone(the black coating).....it doesn't take long to have the follower crack and start to fly apart!

But no.....it's not as bad as people make it out to be. The engine is overall pretty good, just a little more issue than others. The 1.8T Passat had it's oil pressure/sludge issues. The FSI has it's cam follower issue. The TSI has it's intake manifold problems. There are weak points to all the engines.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

bostonaudi1 said:


> Is your motor stock?
> 
> Talk to any techs who work on these daily, and the general consensus is these motors tend to use rather high amounts of oil. Admittedly likely worse with higher boost than normal. My engine is in perfect running order, just likes oil. But this should tell you everything, the bar set by VW itself for abnormal consumption is 1qt per 1000 mi, that's 5 quarts between 5k oil changes! Normal? :screwy:


I can't say I talk with techs daily. I can say that my motor consumes less oil than what I hear other people's motors eat up. It makes me think that something is not correct is all - and that people should push to have things resolved under the power train warranty if possible.

My ecu is APR flashed, neuspeed intake, and will have water/meth added this week :laugh:


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## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> That is not entirely true. It's still a maint. item and must be checked/replaced. I've replaced just as many "B" revision camshafts at the shop in 2007-2008 cars. So it's still a fact of just catching the follower before it starts to wear through. Once all the wear-in coating is gone(the black coating).....it doesn't take long to have the follower crack and start to fly apart!
> 
> But no.....it's not as bad as people make it out to be. The engine is overall pretty good, just a little more issue than others. The 1.8T Passat had it's oil pressure/sludge issues. The FSI has it's cam follower issue. The TSI has it's intake manifold problems. There are weak points to all the engines.


What I am saying is that 3 people post cam and follower failure and now it's "every" engine. That coating doesn't last long but just because it's gone doesn't mean it is bad


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

theguy1084 said:


> What I am saying is that 3 people post cam and follower failure and now it's "every" engine. That coating doesn't last long but just because it's gone doesn't mean it is bad


Yes it does. The coating is what keeps the follower "slick/smooth" and prevents it from damaging the camshaft, and the camshaft damaging the follower.

The follower needs to be replaced when the coating is wearing or worn off.

For a part that was NEVER listed as a regular maintenance item for the vehicle - becoming a regular maintenance item or catastrophic failure will occur, most people would consider that bad, or a flawed design.

Does it bother me? No. Does it bother most automotive enthusiasts who can turn a wrench on their own? Probably not - but it still is not correct.


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## rickjaguar (Apr 23, 2009)

90Corrado said:


> I'm starting to second guess buying a '07 Passat after doing a bunch of reading, stories of cam follower disasters and people having to replace it every 5K or 10k miles has me a bit spooked. So is it as bad as people make out on The Internetz or what? Would a TSI be a better choice? I know, a whole 'nother can of worms.


there are some bad cars out there but most if them are good. I checked my follower at 55000km and it was fine. Will do so again, NBD to look. Stay on top of things with good oil. Mine isn't burning more than 1L/8000km. As with any high performance machinery, it serves you well to keep it in optimum health. 


Sent from my 1st generation Motorola brick using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The biggest issue with cam follower wear is simply oil usage. 10,000 mile oil changes are too much. Some dealership are not using VW FSI approved oils. Car owners are not changing the oil or using the correct oil, etc etc etc.


Use good oil (the correct approved oil). Don't beat the snot out of the car when it's cold. Check the follower at your oil changes and change the oil ever 5k.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*could not be said better*



[email protected] said:


> The biggest issue with cam follower wear is simply oil usage. 10,000 mile oil changes are too much. Some dealership are not using VW FSI approved oils. Car owners are not changing the oil or using the correct oil, etc etc etc.
> 
> 
> Use good oil (the correct approved oil). Don't beat the snot out of the car when it's cold. Check the follower at your oil changes and change the oil ever 5k.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

if anyone were to read the disclaimers on the 10 k oil change they'd see that almost no one falls into that catagory.


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

xtravbx said:


> Yes it does. The coating is what keeps the follower "slick/smooth" and prevents it from damaging the camshaft, and the camshaft damaging the follower.


That's not the case. The coating lasts 10k miles tops, and I get at least 40k out of a follower. It's my opinion that it's a break in coating meant to last until the follower and camshaft wear in together. 

In any case I can show you a picture of a follower @20k with no coating on it at all and the same follower @40k with a camshaft that's smooth as glass


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## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

blackvento36 said:


> That's not the case. The coating lasts 10k miles tops, and I get at least 40k out of a follower. It's my opinion that it's a break in coating meant to last until the follower and camshaft wear in together.
> 
> In any case I can show you a picture of a follower @20k with no coating on it at all and the same follower @40k with a camshaft that's smooth as glass


Agreed. I have a follower sitting in my garage right now with about 5-8k miles and the coating is almost gone. It looked just like one I took at 20k. I replaced it at 20k only because I put an apr hpfp on and again in another 5-8k because I when big turbo and had the head off and apart anyway. Every oil change? Give me a break! I'm pushing 142bar and not the least bit concerned. I'm do for an oil change soon and the rebel in me isn't going even going to check it. Oh no!


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

blackvento36 said:


> That's not the case. The coating lasts 10k miles tops, and I get at least 40k out of a follower. It's my opinion that it's a break in coating meant to last until the follower and camshaft wear in together.
> 
> In any case I can show you a picture of a follower @20k with no coating on it at all and the same follower @40k with a camshaft that's smooth as glass



Hey - if I stand corrected, that's great. I'm just going by what the point of the DLC coating actually is. If it lasts beyond that - great. But the DLC coating is to protect the follower and the camshaft.


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## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

xtravbx said:


> Hey - if I stand corrected, that's great. I'm just going by what the point of the DLC coating actually is. If it lasts beyond that - great. But the DLC coating is to protect the follower and the camshaft.


Actually your oil protects your engine parts more than any coating will


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## 87socorro (Oct 30, 2011)

Follower is not that bad you only have to purchase one and get Vw's parts warranty anytime it goes just go back to the dealer with the worn down piece and they replace it for free


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

87socorro said:


> Follower is not that bad you only have to purchase one and get Vw's parts warranty anytime it goes just go back to the dealer with the worn down piece and they replace it for free


So you're saying you take back your worn followers (assuming without a hole worn through it) they replace it? Have you actually done this?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

87socorro said:


> Follower is not that bad you only have to purchase one and get Vw's parts warranty anytime it goes just go back to the dealer with the worn down piece and they replace it for free


Good luck with that. I can assure 99.9999% of dealers are not going to replace it for free for you. The follower is a maint. item. Do you take your oil filter back after you use it and request a parts warranty on it because it's wearing?


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## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> Good luck with that. I can assure 99.9999% of dealers are not going to replace it for free for you. The follower is a maint. item. Do you take your oil filter back after you use it and request a parts warranty on it because it's wearing?


The follower is NOT a maintenance item. 

VW has a 1 year parts warranty. They would replace failed batteries all of the time when I worked there as long as it was with in a year.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

theguy1084 said:


> The follower is NOT a maintenance item.
> 
> VW has a 1 year parts warranty. They would replace failed batteries all of the time when I worked there as long as it was with in a year.


A failed follower has a hole through the middle of it or a very concave center. Just because the black wear-in material is starting to wear off your follower, the dealership is not going to parts warranty that! If you want to try and can get your local dealer to do that for you....awesome. But I would not rely on having my follower warrantied every year because it's starting to wear slightly.


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## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> A failed follower has a hole through the middle of it or a very concave center. Just because the black wear-in material is starting to wear off your follower, the dealership is not going to parts warranty that! If you want to try and can get your local dealer to do that for you....awesome. But I would not rely on having my follower warrantied every year because it's starting to wear slightly.


I never said that they would I was just stating the fact that their was a warranty. Most of the time the process has to be performed by a vw tech.


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## gb21914 (Apr 7, 2011)

Seriously...I question the logic of replacing a cam follower every 10k...why wouldn't you just do the h2sport cam follower fix and be done with it?


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## Porsche.a.gvduber (Feb 19, 2011)

All and all the engine is a flawed design but still a solid engine, dfi is an excellent technology but it has it's inherent issues. Consider the fact that the fsi was one of the first mass produced global engines to utilize it. Vw has always produced good products in my opinion, if you want something extremely reliable by a port injected time and true tested Honda or Toyota, if you are willing to dish out a little bit per maintenance in trade for something that is fun and rewarding to drive go with the vw. I can tell you from first hand experience that between a Lexus and a Porsche you will spend well a lot more maintaining the German but no one will argue that the Porsche is more fun to drive. Its all about your priorities and your budget


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## tbaeastcoast (Nov 9, 2008)

The FSI is a good motor, but the other motor did have some updated things which are nice.


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

I talked with VW Care yesterday regarding the cam follower issue for my car, and they said basically under my vin that nothing came up for a comprehensive extended warranty. Only the PCV system up to 120K miles. I'm not sure exactly what that means that it would be covered if it failed.. but i figure at my 40K mile service i'll pull it and check it out when i'm doing the other stuff. If it's worn i'll replace it. 

As far as the FSI, i haven't had any issues thus far with my motor at all. the only things that caused were faulty coil packs and a broken crankcase which both were replaced under warranty. 

I think its a very good motor to be honest. I can't say much for the TSI as i don't own one, but seems to be nice step to easier oil filter changes when you change the oil yourself (my opinion of course, i don't care for cartridge filters, but mine suits me fine). 

Timing chain on the TSI is nice too, but if you think about it that service to change the belt is very expensive over just replacing the belt/tensioner on the FSI.


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## g60rabbit (Sep 6, 2000)

jhines_06gli said:


> Don't forget the carbon buildup problem that plagues all the direct-injection engines and robs the low-end torque and fuel mileage.
> 
> But all in all, the engine is only as bad as the owner makes it!! I work on these cars daily....usually 4-6 FSI cars in there. If the owner takes care of the car, addresses the known issues as they come up, and uses the correct oil......they have very minimal issues. But those who use Joe Blow's $29.95 oil change special every 5-7K miles is just asking for issues! *Chains rattle*, followers wear quicker than normal and tensioners fail causing engines to fail!!


What chains?

My wife abuses her 08 Fsi GTI. 65k miles 0 issues. replaced follower at 50k. Looked brand new but since I had it apart I just put a new one in.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

tbaeastcoast said:


> The FSI is a good motor, but the other motor did have some updated things which are nice.



some? the TSI has MANY updates which would be nice to have.

But the FSI is a great motor, and chances are you will sell your car before ever wearing out the engine.


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## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

so the cam follower seems to be the only major fail point? i found a 06 jetta gli with 70k miles going for 8k obo but it comes with a salvaged title due to theft. everything else on it is perfect. how do if it needs to be replaced? also what about the pcv /dv? how do i know looking at the stock one if it needs to be replaced?


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## 87socorro (Oct 30, 2011)

I have done this two times and the parts guy at esserman Vw always ask me what the heck am I doing with these goes to the back and brings me out a fresh follower


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## 87socorro (Oct 30, 2011)

Next time you need a follower go In the dealer ship buy one ask for their warranty next oil change or the next time you change the follower bring in your old one that you replaced in the same box and shazaam brand new follower on the house


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## GTI4john74 (Sep 23, 2008)

theguy1084 said:


> I am so tired of the cam follower hype. Its not really an issue anymore with the revised parts


no matter how much revision they put on that cam follower, because its flat and it rubs against the lobe, it will always wear out, so yeah its a major issue. So some people either replace it every 5k miles or some go with aftermarket cam follower solutions.

the FSI however is a great engine. I love my '08.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*flat tappets*



GTI4john74 said:


> no matter how much revision they put on that cam follower, because its flat and it rubs against the lobe, it will always wear out, so yeah its a major issue. So some people either replace it every 5k miles or some go with aftermarket cam follower solutions.
> 
> the FSI however is a great engine. I love my '08.


they were the standard in pushrod engines for eons. imo it's not the tappet that's the problem but rather the duty cycle. the hpfp cam has 3 lobes vs. a valve lifters one.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

The people who are overreacting seem not to grasp the fact that while problems exist in the real world the vortex is a concentrated and warped version of reality. There are plenty of people running the follower that was in their car when it left the factory at high mileage. There are people who have heavy carbon buildup and some with light. The thing to understand is that nobody cares to make a "My car is still running fine" thread, go ahead and search for one. There are plenty of "OMG GUYZ FSI SUKS CAUSE MINE BROKE" threads, this would lead you to believe that the motor has serious problems.

We have some individuals that replace their cam followers and perform unneeded maintenance as a result. The motor is a fine motor with some MINOR issues that will impact ONLY A FEW.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

GTI2Slow said:


> The people who are overreacting seem not to grasp the fact that while problems exist in the real world the vortex is a concentrated and warped version of reality. There are plenty of people running the follower that was in their car when it left the factory at high mileage. There are people who have heavy carbon buildup and some with light. The thing to understand is that nobody cares to make a "My car is still running fine" thread, go ahead and search for one. There are plenty of "OMG GUYZ FSI SUKS CAUSE MINE BROKE" threads, this would lead you to believe that the motor has serious problems.
> 
> We have some individuals that replace their cam followers and perform unneeded maintenance as a result. The motor is a fine motor with some MINOR issues that will impact ONLY A FEW.


I agree with most of what you are saying but the problem is you can't tell anyone what the likely hood of the cam follower failing is. So with the outside chance that it will fail I feel as though I am stuck checking it occasionally. I do believe it was a poor design and feel that VW realized this also. I am at 125k miles so it is on me to decide what to do and know one can tell me if I will or won't have a problem. Based on the number of failures I have seen on this forum and the percentage of VW owners that get on here I think the risk is too great to ignore.

Should I skip checking it? Can you tell me how likely it is to fail? Will you guarantee anything regarding the cam follower?


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

dmorrow said:


> *Based on the number of failures I have seen on this forum* and *the percentage of VW owners* that get on here I think the risk is too great to ignore.


My point exactly, also I would like to point out that the majority of VW owners are not on the vortex. It is YOUR car and YOUR responsibility. It makes no nevermind to me if you believe moon men are in your sock drawer or your cam follower is going to explode.

I am not apologizing for anyone. VW has provided a 10/120K warranty extension. I don't plan to deal with the follower until I hit 120,001 miles, VW took responsibility until that point and they can fix it and provide a loaner until its fixed.


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## azunderg (Apr 29, 2009)

GTI2Slow said:


> My point exactly, also I would like to point out that the majority of VW owners are not on the vortex. It is YOUR car and YOUR responsibility. It makes no nevermind to me if you believe moon men are in your sock drawer or your cam follower is going to explode.
> 
> I am not apologizing for anyone. VW has provided a 10/120K warranty extension. I don't plan to deal with the follower until I hit 120,001 miles, VW took responsibility until that point and they can fix it and provide a loaner until its fixed.


X2


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

GTI2Slow said:


> My point exactly, also I would like to point out that the majority of VW owners are not on the vortex. It is YOUR car and YOUR responsibility. It makes no nevermind to me if you believe moon men are in your sock drawer or your cam follower is going to explode.
> 
> I am not apologizing for anyone. VW has provided a 10/120K warranty extension. I don't plan to deal with the follower until I hit 120,001 miles, VW took responsibility until that point and they can fix it and provide a loaner until its fixed.


Since the majority of VW owners are not on the Vortex wouldn't you assume that we haven't seen the majority of the failures?

Since we have seen lots of followers fail, I recommend regularly checking them over letting it fail and having all the pieces floating around in your engine. VW will replace the parts who knows where the pieces end up. If this mean every couple of years I waste $100 it is better than having a failure that leaves me without a car.


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## OmegaRed1723 (Oct 10, 2008)

Almost 85k on my '07 FSI motor, with minimal issues. I change my oil every 4,000 miles, but it also chews through roughly a quart every thousand miles. APR hpfp with Stage 2+ since 40k, and my cam follower (revision B cam) is A-OK. I haven't done anything to the PCV system, nor have I had the valves cleaned, and I am just now starting to get occasional misfires ar high load. The timing belt is in very good shape but I'm planning to replace it within the next 5,000 miles or so, at which point I'll have the valves cleaned. Bottom line, the motor is great, but it's definitely not a set-it-and-forget-it piece of machinery.


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## turbo_power (Jan 14, 2010)

I would hold out for the TSI, as dealerships are getting them back now coming off leases.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

dmorrow said:


> Since the majority of VW owners are not on the Vortex wouldn't you assume that we haven't seen the majority of the failures?


That is a pretty big assumption as the majority of vortex users haven't reported an issue.

Its not that prevalent of a problem in the real world, deal with it.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

GTI2Slow said:


> That is a pretty big assumption as the majority of vortex users haven't reported an issue.
> 
> Its not that prevalent of a problem in the real world, deal with it.


It's logical sense. If 2% of all 2.0T owners are on this forum wouldn't you expect that the majority of the failures aren't reported here? Not much of an assumption. 

I agree it is not prevalent, but don't know the failure rate. Is it 3%, 5%, 10% over 150k miles?

Regardless of how likely the failure is, it is big enough that VW increased the warranty coverage because of these failures. Still can leave you on the side of the road and/or a lengthy time at the dealership without a car. I consider it a maintenance item to be checked.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

GTI2Slow said:


> That is a pretty big assumption as the majority of vortex users haven't reported an issue.
> 
> Its not that prevalent of a problem in the real world, deal with it.



It's not that prevalent? Do you have specific documented facts at what percentage of 2.0T FSI's fail due to the camshaft / follower wear? 

It's a problem - to what extent, only VW knows.


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## roguetattoo (Mar 10, 2010)

I wish I didn't like VW....when they run perfectly they run perfectly...and then they need maintenance and they run like poo. 

VW should be happy that we all like these cars because I don't see other manufacturers turning out cars that need metal parts replaced everyother oil change like our cam follower's, or eating a quart of oil between oil changes.....lets get serious a quart every oilchange....when I was a kid my mom went 40k miles on her ford tempo and I checked the oil and it hadn't lost a drop. 

The dealer did my cam follower twice, the first time and a day later the hpfp blew up and bent a valve, the second time the motor siezed....so I can't trust a dealership again. 

If we were smart we wouldn't own VW's and I sure wouldn't recomend anyone buy one....that's like offering your friend crack.....yup we are all crack whores in the world of german engineering automative madness.......lord know I hate to love my car.


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## bryangb (Jun 16, 2010)

Usually you don't know the negative quirks of cars unless you own them. Honda recalled over a million cars last year. **** happens. 

Sell your car if you hate it so much


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

roguetattoo said:


> I don't see other manufacturers turning out cars eating a quart of oil between oil changes.....lets get serious a quart every oilchange....when I was a kid my mom went 40k miles on her ford tempo and I checked the oil and it hadn't lost a drop.


 It's a common trait of all direct-injected cars. Other companies do not have the same issues with it as the FSI VW uses because of our oil pump/balance shaft design. The oil pan may look big, but in all reality, 75% of that huge pan is taken up by a boat anchor that we call a oil pump. So with the loss of a little oil, we get the LOW OIL light in turns where other companies do not have that. So there customers usually don't even know they are using oil because the "typical" person does not check the oil unless something seems"wrong" with the engine. If it's running, they drive it! 

But yes, the FSI/TSI engines are by no means a friendly car to have for the average Joe! But when they are running good and maintained well........there isn't much out there that is as nice! 
-J. Hines


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## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

roguetattoo said:


> I wish I didn't like VW....when they run perfectly they run perfectly...and then they need maintenance and they run like poo.
> 
> VW should be happy that we all like these cars because I don't see other manufacturers turning out cars that need metal parts replaced everyother oil change like our cam follower's, or eating a quart of oil between oil changes.....lets get serious a quart every oilchange....when I was a kid my mom went 40k miles on her ford tempo and I checked the oil and it hadn't lost a drop.
> 
> ...


 Your an idiot if you change your cam follower every oil change.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

theguy1084 said:


> Your an idiot if you change your cam follower every oil change.


 Exactyl! I change mine every 20K using the OE one. I ran the KMD follower for 100K miles with no issues on it. Just figured it was a good time to swap it out. 

The car has a lot of maint., but if the owner can learn to do the basic things to it.......then it's not a bad engine to have. Where a lot of people screw up is buying them used and assuming the previous owner took care of the car as it should have been taken care of. We see a lot of new owners of FSI cars that have issues because of previous issues that have been stewing up just waiting to explode!


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

g60rabbit said:


> What chains?
> 
> My wife abuses her 08 Fsi GTI. 65k miles 0 issues. replaced follower at 50k. Looked brand new but since I had it apart I just put a new one in.


 Cam connector chain on the FSI 2.0t.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

bificus99 said:


> Cam connector chain on the FSI 2.0t.


 The tensioner that keeps tension on the chain between the cams is what we see fail the most. Things gets loud and the chain starts slapping.....sounds a lot like a 12V when the tensioning bolt goes bad. But eventually that chain will beat itself apart and that is NOT good. The FSI engine is not forgiving when the pistons and valves hit!!! 

Seen probably 15-20 of the chains fail on FSI cars at various miles. Every one of those got engines replaced by their insurance companies. Almost cheaper to get a junkyard unit than rebuild the head from their perspective. But a junkyard engine doesn't always end well:banghead: 
-J. Hines


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## defector (Nov 26, 2000)

I have a 2008 FSI. 

1) Intake build-up may be exaggerated. Mine at 103,000 miles was moderate but not affecting performance significantly. 

2) My cam-follower at 99,000 was great. Barely any coating gone. This looks exaggerated if you are using a proper oil. 

3) My oil consumption is 1 quart/5000 miles. I have no issues with this. But I have used Mobil 1 0W-40 for every oil-change since new at 5,000 mile intervals. 

4) I changed my timing belt at 103,000, not early, like some at 70,000 miles, etc. No problems. 

5) I have been Stage 1 chipped and run at 93 octane since 48,000 miles. No clutch related issues. 

6) My first rear-brake replacement seemed way too early at 50,000 miles, and as you need a VAG-COM this pissed me off as I spent $450 at a stealer. However, this has nothing to do with FSI....just typical quirkly VW. 

But overall, I love my FSI V-dub. It is not perfect. What would I suggest? If you are considering one, find some nut-ball like myself who takes good care of it. That probably makes more difference than anything. 

Jim


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## bryangb (Jun 16, 2010)

You need vag com to change your brake pads?


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## roguetattoo (Mar 10, 2010)

I don't change my cam follower every oil change I was making a general comment based on what other people on this post has said.....you kinda missed the point.


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## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

bryangb said:


> You need vag com to change your brake pads?


 On a passat with an electric parking brake you do


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## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

roguetattoo said:


> I don't change my cam follower every oil change I was making a general comment based on what other people on this post has said.....you kinda missed the point.





roguetattoo said:


> VW should be happy that we all like these cars because I don't see other manufacturers turning out cars that need metal parts replaced everyother oil change like our cam follower's,


 People read ignorant statements like yours and get a bad impression. Every car is f$&@ked up in its own way.


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## roguetattoo (Mar 10, 2010)

theguy1084 said:


> People read ignorant statements like yours and get a bad impression. Every car is f$&@ked up in its own way.


 Coming from someone who's first words were "your an idiot"....makes no sense, misreading blogging and catagorizing it as ignorant statements makes my point. Thank you!!


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## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

roguetattoo said:


> Coming from someone who's first words were "your an idiot"....makes no sense, misreading blogging and catagorizing it as ignorant statements makes my point. Thank you!!


 And you just made mine. Thank you


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## blairl (Jun 10, 2009)

roguetattoo said:


> Coming from someone who's first words were "your an idiot"....makes no sense, misreading blogging and catagorizing it as ignorant statements makes my point. Thank you!!





theguy1084 said:


> And you just made mine. Thank you


:facepalm:


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