# S3: Anyone else feel like this car has a weird power band?



## gtitx1 (Oct 6, 2014)

I came from a Mk6 GTI with a stage 1 apr tune, so about 250 HP and a little over 300 ftlb peak torque on 93. With that car, you could always feel the surge down low, and then things fell off on the top end. For some reason with this S3 I can just never figure it out.

Sometimes this car feels blisteringly fast, especially from a stop due to AWD, but I always feel like it is mostly sluggish during highway passing. Does anyone else experience this? Sometimes if I hit it just right, it feels great, but a lot of the times during highway passing, my butt dyno says it feels slower than my GTI. Is something up with my car in particular? Am I just not sitting correctly in the power band? Or do others notice this?

I would have expected if anything for this car to feel better than the GTI due to the larger turbo, but it has just been a very odd thing. It just always feels like a moving target, I thought I had determined that I just had to be nicely over 3k rpm to get anything, but even that seems to be hit or miss now. 

Oddly, I think the speedometer says it is just or fast if not faster, but still, just doesn't feel right. I am going on around 3 months of driving this car.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

I'm glad to hear someone else is experiencing exactly the same thing I am. You pretty much summarized what I'm experiencing, I'm surprised nobody else has commented about it. There's times when the car pulls well (and I've had rolling runs vs a B8.5 S4 and the S3 is quicker), other times it feels like a total dog though I'm seemingly in the correct gear/rpm and the turbo is spooled.

I've come to the conclusion that the stock power band is much higher than I would have thought (almost 4k), but often times there's no power like you've described. It seems very unpredictable and I don't think it's heat soak or bad gas. It feels barely quicker than the A3 at times. On some short drives I spend the whole time trying figure out wth is going on. I would drive in Manual mode all the time but sometimes that mode itself seems to be the culprit.


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## Rearviewevo (Nov 19, 2014)

Chimera said:


> I'm glad to hear someone else is experiencing exactly the same thing I am. You pretty much summarized what I'm experiencing, I'm surprised nobody else has commented about it. There's times when the car pulls well (and I've had rolling runs vs a B8.5 S4 and the S3 is quicker), other times it feels like a total dog though I'm seemingly in the correct gear/rpm and the turbo is spooled.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion that the stock power band is much higher than I would have thought (almost 4k), but often times there's no power like you've described. It seems very unpredictable and I don't think it's heat soak or bad gas. It feels barely quicker than the A3 at times. On some short drives I spend the whole time trying figure out wth is going on. I would drive in Manual mode all the time but sometimes that mode itself seems to be the culprit.


I'm supposed to pick mine up next week and stories like this are freaking me out. I'm pretty much convinced they detuned the motor significantly from the Euro spec version. I'm on the fence with picking mine up.


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## m3cosmos (Apr 28, 2011)

You guys try running Shell or BP premium gas?


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## gtitx1 (Oct 6, 2014)

m3cosmos said:


> You guys try running Shell or BP premium gas?



I can't say that I have, I generally run the Costco gas, or from the grocery store, 93. That said, this is generally the same gas I used in my GTI, and that was running a stage 1 APR tune and I never had an issue. Not that I am against their gas or anything, just none of it is convenient for me, and it is generally all the same as long as it is a high volume station.


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## m3cosmos (Apr 28, 2011)

gtitx1 said:


> I can't say that I have, I generally run the Costco gas, or from the grocery store, 93. That said, this is generally the same gas I used in my GTI, and that was running a stage 1 APR tune and I never had an issue. Not that I am against their gas or anything, just none of it is convenient for me, and it is generally all the same as long as it is a high volume station.


This is not true here is a quote if you use gasbuddy and they list the top tier gas. Usually Shell or BP is a top tier and their gas is normally more expensive than others. I hear people had problem with their car until they switched. It sounds like you guy are experiencing timing pull from the computer to save your engine. Usually that means you need better gas. Our gas in the US is not very good compared to Europe/Japan.

*Top Tier Detergent Gasoline

TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is the premier standard for gasoline performance. Seven of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz and Audi recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance.

Since the minimum additive performance standards were first established by EPA in 1995, most gasoline marketers have actually reduced the concentration level of detergent additive in their gasoline by up to 50%. As a result, the ability of a vehicle to maintain stringent Tier 2 emission standards have been hampered, leading to engine deposits which can have a big impact on in-use emissions and driver satisfaction.

These automakers have raised the bar. TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline help drivers avoid lower quality gasoline which can leave deposits on critical engine parts, which reduces engine performance. That's something both drivers and automakers want to avoid. 
*


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

My local Costco has top tier fuel. I only use there 93 octane and always have consistent results.

Sounds like it could just be a best soak issue.


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## slo_s3 (Oct 15, 2014)

I know exactly what you're talking about. I get that feeling too, but i look at the speedo and it's moving. It's weird, hard to put in words but you're not the only one lol


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## roblove (Apr 18, 2014)

slo_s3 said:


> I know exactly what you're talking about. I get that feeling too, but i look at the speedo and it's moving. It's weird, hard to put in words but you're not the only one lol


I've always interpreted this as the S3 is (too) civilized. I think if you look at the actual performance, it is pretty impressive, pulling across the entire band. But the car is quite refined and the exhaust note tame, aside from the valve opening, which belies the power under the hood.


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## m_bolc (Oct 19, 2008)

I have experienced this in other turbo + DSG combinations. I think the power delivery is sometimes so smooth the car feels slower than it truly is. 

On a manual you can forcefully short shift to below boost, floor it and wait for the surge (I love doing that). On DSG the car will be in the correct gear either all the time or within milliseconds, taking away the rush.


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

The S3 uses the KO4 while the GTI still uses a KO3/KO3 Sport right?
A friend of mine used to experience the same thing with his TT225 compared to my GTI 337. The GTI had less lag in the low rpm range than the TT because the TT had the KO4 (larger turbo). The TT was quicker and faster (AWD, more HP) but it had more lag down low. Of course neither car was DSG.


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## nobbyv (May 18, 2001)

Are you guys confident you're not experiencing some delay from the S-tronic/ and/or throttle tip-in? In my S6 (w/ the 7-spd S-Tronic) there was a pronounced delay when trying to accelerate just after coming off braking (i.e., slow for a red light, light turns green as you're rolling to a stop, try to accelerate again). A TSB that addressed an issue w/ an EPC fault fixed all, and the car's been a beast ever since.

Guess what I'm saying is, it's likely not imaginary, but something that the Audi engineers will figure out and release a software update for shortly. Have faith. :beer:


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

gizmopop said:


> The S3 uses the KO4 while the GTI still uses a KO3/KO3 Sport right?
> A friend of mine used to experience the same thing with his TT225 compared to my GTI 337. The GTI had less lag in the low rpm range than the TT because the TT had the KO4 (larger turbo). The TT was quicker and faster (AWD, more HP) but it had more lag down low. Of course neither car was DSG.


I don't believe it's a K04 in the S3


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

Without actually experiencing this, my guess is maybe its the DSG being in too high of a gear while cruising on the highway? I would say have the transmission in manual mode and see how it feels. This would at least rule out the transmission as the issue. 

Also, I believe the turbo on the S3 is a IHI turbo similar in size to the K04.


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## gtitx1 (Oct 6, 2014)

So I figured out the problem, hope this helps others.

I did find that it seemed in dynamic mode I did not have this issue, but I rarely drive in that mode due to the suspension setting, so I thought maybe it was placebo, given that everything else is set dynamic on my individual.

Though here is where the issue starts. I hate S mode, so I always set my transmission to D. But actually drive 95% of the time in manual mode, as prior to my gti I always drove manuals.

So what was happening is that I was going from D to M and I guess assuming M was sorta the same as sport mode. But its not. As soon as I started selecting S and then going into M, it was like the car I always thought it should be. I think in my gti M and S were basicsly the same mappings, or at least they were with the APR tune. I only drove my gti about 1k miles before the tune, and always thought it was sluggish. But after the tune it felt great. The following link will explain.


http://www.audiworld.com/forums/audi-a3-s3-rs-3-mkii-209/sport-mode-vs-dynamic-2875649/


So if you are having these issues, I bet you are shifting out of D and into M. 3 days of choosing S first, and I couldn't be happier.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

Unfortunately this is not my issue  I literally never use D, can't stand it always trying to be 2 gears higher than I'd prefer.


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## Tazman71 (Dec 4, 2014)

Need to understand the logic to conserve fuel while obtaining driver comfort. It isn't the cars fault. Put the car into dynamic mash the gas pedal and use the shift paddles and drive it like you stole it . There is absolutely no problem how the car is set up


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## roblove (Apr 18, 2014)

gtitx1 said:


> So if you are having these issues, I bet you are shifting out of D and into M. 3 days of choosing S first, and I couldn't be happier.


Thank you for this info. Even after reading the thread, however, I am confused exactly about Dynamic vs S. Specifically,

In Dynamic with automatic transmission, is there a difference when I go and put the transmission into S? Reading that link, it sounds like no (S is a subset of Dynamic), but then why doesn't the car default to S (it says D by default even when in Dynamic)?

If the answer above is yes, then even in Dynamic should I be putting the transmission into S before M if I want peak performance?

If the answer is no, then using Dynamic alone (in auto or M) would be a solution to your problem, right?


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## steve111b (Jun 2, 2011)

I have read about this, but not tried it. My understanding is you cannot select D to go with dynamic (must be S). However, it is possible with the following sequence. Select dynamic, then S. Turn the car off. Not sure if you need to remove the key. Turn the car on and it will be in dynamic and you can now select D. The main thing is turning the car off while in dynamic and S. Once the car is successfully in dynamic and D it will stay that way until you alter the drive select settings.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

This is one of the reasons why I like driving a manual.


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## Tazman71 (Dec 4, 2014)

If you pay attention with the car , when dynamic is selected or with individual settings set to dynamic the trans is set to sport automatically when selecting these on drive select. drive the car and enjoy the smile it puts in your face I do. Or go get a manual transmission and not worry


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

DaLeadBull said:


> This is one of the reasons why I like driving a manual.


In this case, I'm not sure that would help you. If drive select changes the throttle response based on drive select settings, you could still end up with a weird power band if you're not in dynamic. Of course, with a manual, you could leave the engine in dynamic without facing the annoyingness of "S" mode hanging onto revs forever (great for a track, not so great for "lightly-spirited" street driving).


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## 949 (Mar 11, 2008)

what this car needs is the cobb accessport. so that it can get a professional individual tune. if everyone emailed cobb we can get a system made for the s3 lineup. it will fix all this issue.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

Probably more apparent in the S3, but my Mk7 GTI "feels" slower at a given speed compared to my stage 1 Mk6. That's the one downside of "refinement". Another similarity I noticed is what you mentioned: the sport mode of the MQB cars feels like the standard APR stage 1 tune in my Mk6. Leave it in D then go to M: it is slower throttle response.


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## Ricky11 (Jun 7, 2012)

Guys I have a dyno graph of my S3 in my build thread now. There is a funky dip right after 3k RPM's I'm trying to figure out, but otherwise I think it's representative of the power band. Check it out.


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