# Generator replacement – the "easy way"



## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Generator replacement – the easy way

Some time ago, I decide to replace my generator, because of several reasons.
First, my battery voltage never exceeded 13.6 Volts, only in rare cases. Although this voltage should be enough to at least charge the battery near to 50% FC, it bothered me too often because the standheater often didn’t turn on because of a too much drained battery.
Secondly, I investigated just about any other cause of the problem. For reference, you can find all about my pioneering work in this thread. I am a bit eager to solve this problem and that is why I decided to dig further into it. 
The third reason is that the dealer noted last year, that my serpentine belt (or ribbed belt) was showing cracks in the longitudinal direction.
The fourth reason was actually the most annoying one. Whenever I started the engine in the morning, it made a noise as if a bunch of birds are tweeting inside the engine compartment. It started to bother me even more, when even my usually ignorant wife started to make cynical remarks about it.

Because the repair of the serpentine belt alone required removal of a lot of components, such as the bumper and the radiators, I thought that it might be possible to replace or repair the generator as well. There was just one risk, and that is that the repair manual dictates the complete removal of the engine to get to the generator.

So, I ordered a new generator from a generator shop, being about 99% sure of the original part number, as well as a new serpentine belt. As I held the serpentine belt responsible for the tweeting noise of the cold running engine, I was looking forward to obtain a very silent car by the end of the day.

Today, we started the work with my friend Ron, who owns an indy garage. He has all possible tools to do this job, so we were quite excited when we unbolted the first bolt of the bumper.

Now that the day is over, I must say that I have learnt a lot about the W12. Along the path of dis-assembly of various components, we discovered several issues which can prevent 


In the next couple of photo’s and text, I will explain the entire route to the generator step by step, and what we found along this adventure.

*Step 1*
The first step of this procedure is basically identical to the procedure for retrofitting the bi-Xenon lamps, which requires taking off the bumper and removal of the head light assemblies.
Michael has described it along with photo’s in http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2828054-Retrofitting-Dual-Xenon-Headlamps-TOC-Photos-done&p=32157980&viewfull=1#post32157980

*Step 2*
The second step is the removal of this little cooler:










It is quite easy to loosen this cooler and swing it out of the way.
A first problem occurred. We noticed some green stuff on one of the hose clamps, leading to the big cooler in the front. It turns out to be the green dye of the refrigerant. This is probably the reason why I have to replenish the refrigerant just about every 1 ½ year.
The below photo shows the hose and the green dye:










Just a detail: the distance radar. It was a bit dirty, prior to taking the picture.










*Step 3 – Taking off the radiator assembly (lock carrier)*

This step requires draining the coolant. We used a vacuum cleaner for coolant to do this job, along with loosening some of the radiator hoses.
For taking off the lock carrier, we used a couple of studs. This studs support the lock carrier once it is unbolted and to keep it straight while it is moved forward. This step is necessary to gain access to the serpentine belt in the first place.

Photo: Draining of the coolant.









*Step 4 – Moving the lock carrier even further forward*

Ron hates to work in confined spaces, so he decided to loosen as much wiring and hoses as necessary to gain enough access to the parts to be serviced. The generator in particular is installed in a very compact way, and can normally only be accessed by removal of the complete engine.

The next photo shows a small lift which we used to keep the radiator in the desired position. The reason we did so, is that the lock carrier studs we used, were far too short. And we wanted to rotate the lock carrier, rather than move it forward.










*The next photo shows the end result:
*









Please note, that we had been removing a lot of hoses already, taking care not to remove too many of them. The next photos show the most important ones.










*Above photo: front left side.* Note the steel cable for unlocking the hood, which is being stressed at this point. We took care of that later, with the aid of a simple tie wrap.

*Below photo shows the right side of the lock carrier, where the removed hose is visible.*










*Now… a sneak preview of the front of the generator*:










As you can see, the bar which is still in our way, can be removed.

*Step 5 - Taking out the radiator*

This step is hard to describe. A lot of creativity is required to finally remove the generator. The good thing is, that there are just two bolts, which can be accessed from the front. The bad thing is, that the cooling tubes are on the rear side and almost impossible to reach.
*
But we succeeded:*










This is where the generator was. About in the middle of the picture, the B+ cable is visible. This one leads to the LH battery, via a junction under the hood.
About 7 cm above the B+ terminal, the hose with coupling tube is visible. We took out the other one, as it could be removed quite easily.

*Step 6 Installing the new generator.*

This step turned out to be a bit more complex than we anticipated. The generator I had ordered was "for sure the right type" according to the supplier. But, the holes for the cooling tubes were 16 mm in diameter of the new generator, where the old generator had 17 mm holes. 

*Photo, showing the original, defective generator and the replacement*










This problem is being sorted out as I write this.
I will add some more details, but first I want to tell you in what state the old generator is:









Severe coolant leakage. Due to the fact that the two tubes are located near the top, all leaked coolant can directly seep into the electrical section under the black cover:



















*Above: diode bank and carbon collector (for field current) is visible.*










Above: the little chip you can see (under the metal clip), is easily wetted. I’m a bit puzzled about this construction.

So far for day one. My car is looking as if it is in a devastating state right now and is waiting for new parts.

I am very happy to let you know the actual source of the tweeting birds. It is one of the belt rollers, one of the two smallest ones. I decided to have two other small replaced as well, just as precaution.

To be continued…

Willem


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## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Wow what a major surgery Willem, but soon welcome to the +14v club! 

Wouter


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Thanks, Wouter.

The P is now sitting workless on Ron´s lift. He said that he would leave the car there and not touch any of the parts, which are organized in a specific way on various places. He does not want to move the car nor the disassembled parts and bolts, because he otherwise won´t be able to fully remember the order of assembly and where the many different bolts belong. 

Willem


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

*Generator replacement issue*

Meanwhile, the cause of several problems is now clear. Looking at the photo´s of the regulator side of the generator, it is quite obvious to me why the generator wasn´t performing the way it should. The cooling tube connection probably has been leaking for already a long time, causing the regulator to perform less than normal.

The photo below shows the cause of the coolant leak. The O-ring is seriously deteriorated:










The biggest problem now is that there are so many versions of the (water cooled) generator. Also, there are two different manufacturers, Delphi and Hitachi, each with tiny differences.


The angular position of the DFM connector and the B+ terminal screw are different, even within one brand. 
This doesn't need to be a problem, however there are also tiny differences between the DFM connector, which look alsmost identical except for some very tiny difference, almost unvisible.
The major problem is the difference in diameter of the water entry and exit ports. The difference of 1 mm is too big to be ignored.


We have consulted VW, who said that the main issue can be resolved easily, because the VW recommendation is that when the generator is replaced with a different brand, also the connection tubes must be purchased. The cost a staggering € 120 each, excluding the special mounting brackets, costing € 40 each. 

I again asked the supplier of the generator for advice, who said that the VW oem type number of the generator matches with the manufacturers type number, even though my original generator is made by Delphi and the new one by Hitachi.

The solution for this problem is refurbishment of the original generator, which is now being done by a specialized company. Meanwhile, I will try to get a pair of new O-rings. I am considering Viton, because they are the most chemical resistant ones. The material of the old O-rings is probably EPDM, but I am not sure. 

Willem


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Excellent post. Good job.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

WillemBal said:


> We have consulted VW, who said that the main issue can be resolved easily, because the VW recommendation is that when the generator is replaced with a different brand, also the connection tubes must be purchased. The cost a staggering € 120 each, excluding the special mounting brackets, costing € 40 each.


It should come as no surprise that roughly a third of car companies net profits come from part sales!

H


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yet another good advert for doing the work yourself! I bet those pictures make Josh's fingers itch. And speaking of adverts for DIY, whilst rotating my wheels this morning, I inspected the brakes & suspension as usual, and discovered that during the recent replacement of the upper control arms, the dealer had neglected to fasten the bolt at the top of the upright member where the control arms attach to it. It wasn't just loose, the nut was sitting right on the end of the bolt, about half an inch from the surface it should be bolted to. I can't tighten it myself because I don't have a tool that'll fit into the narrow space and an open-ended spanner won't give me sufficient torque, so I'll be having a conversation with somebody shortly.....


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

WillemBal said:


>












Glad you finally got to the bottom of your voltage issues.

Jason


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Easy way - my xxx. It is definitely the less difficult way but nothing is easy on the Phaeton, especially the W12. 

Great informative post. Not only that it can be done without engine removal but shows the steps. 

Good luck on the rest of the project.


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Thanks all, for your kind compliments.

Update:
We consulted various suppliers for a solution to the generator problem.
The supplier of the Hitachi generator adviced that the VW code 07C 903 021F generator can be replaced by Hitachi LR1190-907E (see picture in post 1). When I told him that the holes for the water tubes are 1 mm smaller and the DFM connector is slightly different, he promissed to check. An hour later he called, telling me that all Hitachi generators have the same diameter holes, i.e. too small for my water tubes.

The company which normally can repair generators, told us that the generator was drowned, and that it didn't perform well on their test bench. It produced way below 190 Amps and the voltage wasn't constant at all and heavily dependant on load. Well, at least this sounds familiar to me.
But they were afraid that the windings were corroded and the damaged electronics components were difficult to source. A replacement generator would cost 1200 Euro including trade-in credit for the defective generator. No option for me.

Fortunately, Ron has a good relationship with the parts guy from the VW dealer and made an appointment to check the ETKA descriptions of the parts we needed. He was able to sort out the exact items and the good news is that the "only" cost 45 Euro each, the tube mouting bracket some euro's and the connector with repair wires costs 2 Euros. A bit of bad news that it takes another day to get them, so the re-assembly has to wait until Friday late afternoon and Saturday. But I'm at least glad that I don't have to buy an original VW generator, as this would cost another € 860. (VW Germany confirmed that the Hitachi can be used as replacement, provided the water tubes and tube mounting bracket is ordered at the same time)

*Below photo: the original type code. Please note the the revision number.* :facepalm:













Willem


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Willem,
Have a look at this: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Lichtmaschin...002630030?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item35c8d4678e
It might save you a few euros!
I hope it helps.

Gabriel


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> Hi Willem,
> Have a look at this: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Lichtmaschin...002630030?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item35c8d4678e
> It might save you a few euros!


Hi Gabriel,

The cause of this damage is a leaking O-ring seal. The tube connection is at the top side and there are plenty of vent gaps, through which the coolant can seep into both the rectifier, the regulator the field and all of the windings.
Before we started the work, I have been looking at generators from E-bay as well. The problem with any replacement generator is that we can only test it until it is installed in the car and the radiator is back on its place. We expect another 5 to 6 hours of work to get to this point. This relatively high risk of failure is the main reason that I purchased a new one for € 450 Euro. We were just a bit unfortunate that the water tubes were not included. :screwy:
The generators with the same type number as mine (the one you suggested is slightly different, maybe because of a typo error), all look as if they have suffered the same type of damage by the way. Now I know what caused the failure, I sure wouldn't recommend to buy a used generator. 

Willem


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

Any updates on the generator repair and how your car now functions?

Cantrell


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## pantera1683 (Sep 11, 2010)

Cantrellc123 said:


> Any updates on the generator repair and how your car now functions?
> 
> Cantrell



Ditto


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

WillemBal said:


> This step turned out to be a bit more complex than we anticipated. The generator I had ordered was "for sure the right type" according to the supplier. But, the holes for the cooling tubes were 16 mm in diameter of the new generator, where the old generator had 17 mm holes.


I'm in the middle of replacing the O-rings on the alternator of one of my W12. It has the Delphi alternator part# 07C-903-021-F (same as my other 2 W12s) which seems to be the original one. Once I got the cooling lines off I measured the OD of the cooling line connector at 16.9 mm and the O-ring groove at 14.55 - 14.6 mm. This is different from the O-rings I bought which are OEM nr: N 907 834 01, Size 13.1 x 1.6, which is supposed to be correct for this VIN. (Actually I also bought Chemical-resistant Viton O-rings in the same size).

Now I need the correct dimensions for the larger cooling tubes with OD 16.9 mm. Does someone have that info? Thanks.

Btw, thanks to Lennart for the procedure that avoids dropping the engine for this job! 
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7026560-My-Phaeton-W12&p=86325020&viewfull=1#post86325020


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

*Generator replacement – the &quot;easy way&quot;*

Hi Stephan,

I found my old alternator pieces her and there and it is a Delphi with 16,9 mm outer diameter. I just ordered the o-rings from VW and I think the N 907 834 01, Size 13,1 x 1,6 is the right size. The ones place on the used alternator are quite difficult to measure the diameter on as they are slightly deformed, maybe expanded a bit by age and not that round but they could have been 13,1 mm when new. After some investigation i found that o-rings in that size should have some grip around the cylindric part and that means that the inner diameter of the o-ring should be somewhere about 0,7 mm smaller than the cylindric part with some variations depending on tolerances. 14,5-13,1 gives 1,4 mm but i think that is within the expected. The thickness is easily measured and is 1,6 mm. If I measure the outer diameter of the o-ring in place it is 0,6 mm bigger than the metal diameter. Try measuring your o-rings in place and if you get 0,6 mm I would go with it. If notacibly smaller I would investigate further. Lubricate with concentrated coolant or vaseline to get the o-ringd in place smoothly without getting stuck.

The alternator part number below, the one I measured, ends with 026K but is replaced with 018 and later 018X that is for W12 engine code BAN









Good luck!
Lennart


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks for digging up that info, Lennart. The o-rings went on pretty easy and measure about 0.6 mm larger than the OD when installed so I decided to give it a try with those o-rings. Haven't yet leak tested it because I'm also doing a trans fluid & filter change at the same time and need to fill the trans fluid first. Should be able to run it tomorrow.


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

Phaetonlvr said:


> I'm in the middle of replacing the O-rings on the alternator of one of my W12. It has the Delphi alternator part# 07C-903-021-F (same as my other 2 W12s) which seems to be the original one. Once I got the cooling lines off I measured the OD of the cooling line connector at 16.9 mm and the O-ring groove at 14.55 - 14.6 mm. This is different from the O-rings I bought which are OEM nr: N 907 834 01, Size 13.1 x 1.6, which is supposed to be correct for this VIN. (Actually I also bought Chemical-resistant Viton O-rings in the same size).
> 
> Now I need the correct dimensions for the larger cooling tubes with OD 16.9 mm. Does someone have that info? Thanks.
> 
> ...



After an adventure of having my Phaeton almost stall on me 5 times today along with a plethora of electrical problems (that oddly all disappeared a few months ago and the car has been fine...) seems i totally need an alternator now. Wish I thoroughly read through this thread last year when I had the car just sitting with the bumper off and the alternator staring me right in the face!

Anyway, I have a couple of questions. I need to replace the o-rings as well as the alternator. Did you have to remove the radiator as in this thread? Or could you just remove the reservoir and slide the oil cooler out of the way? Also, if you didn't have to remove the radiator, would it be possible for me to remove the alternator by using your method?

Lastly, where do i find these rubber pieces that will separate? 

Thanks in advance!


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Shyheim103 said:


> Anyway, I have a couple of questions. I need to replace the o-rings as well as the alternator. Did you have to remove the radiator as in this thread? Or could you just remove the reservoir and slide the oil cooler out of the way? Also, if you didn't have to remove the radiator, would it be possible for me to remove the alternator by using your method?
> 
> Lastly, where do i find these rubber pieces that will separate?


To replace the O-rings you just have to remove the washer reservoir and the supplemental radiator then drop the oil cooler, no need to remove the main radiator. However, if you have to remove the alternator then I don't see a way that avoids putting the front end into the service position. There just isn't enough space on the W12 to get enough access, heck, even getting the accessory belt on and off is a serious challenge!

The rubber mounts are now discontinued and there's no stock in North America and not even in Germany according to 1stvwparts.com. I got lucky and none of the three mounts broke so I was able to reuse them. I do think you could make a substitute yourself, just find the bolt in the correct size and some rubber grommet in the approximate size and you should be good.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

*Generator replacement – the &quot;easy way&quot;*



Phaetonlvr said:


> To replace the O-rings you just have to remove the washer reservoir and the supplemental radiator then drop the oil cooler, no need to remove the main radiator. However, if you have to remove the alternator then I don't see a way that avoids putting the front end into the service position. There just isn't enough space on the W12 to get enough access, heck, even getting the accessory belt on and off is a serious challenge!
> 
> The rubber mounts are now discontinued and there's no stock in North America and not even in Germany according to 1stvwparts.com. I got lucky and none of the three mounts broke so I was able to reuse them. I do think you could make a substitute yourself, just find the bolt in the correct size and some rubber grommet in the approximate size and you should be good.


You will need to remove the bumper and the radiator to remove the alternator. And some other pipes and things. It is just nog possible with the radiator in place. On the other hand it is much less work than engine removal.

Regarding the bonded rubber bushes they are still availiable in ETKAs last update and they are not just a bolt with rubber around. They are two separate threaded parts with rubber bonded between them so a bolt would be totally stiff instead of the flexible connection originally mounted. It may work but the filter housing and cooler would take more punishment than intended.










Lennart


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

ravenflies said:


> Regarding the bonded rubber bushes they are still availiable in ETKAs last update and they are not just a bolt with rubber around. They are two separate threaded parts with rubber bonded between them so a bolt would be totally stiff instead of the flexible connection originally mounted. It may work but the filter housing and cooler would take more punishment than intended.


They are still shown but according to my source are discontinued now with no stock left. If you know of some that are available I'd be interested. Fortunately I have three spares as they didn't break off and could reuse them when I did the alternator O-ring replacement recently. 

Having to extract those broken mounts on my W12, I know what you are talking about that those are actually two bolts bonded together by rubber. I do think with a long stud and an appropriately thick rubber grommet you could achieve the same king of vibration dampening as the original. Hopefully I won't have to find out soon.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

I forgot to say that this applies to the Europe. No note about that it has been dropped as with many other parts. Those are small and quite easy to ship. I can double check with my dealer tomorrow If they are availiable here in Sweden 

Lennart


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

ravenflies said:


> I forgot to say that this applies to the Europe. No note about that it has been dropped as with many other parts. Those are small and quite easy to ship. I can double check with my dealer tomorrow If they are availiable here in Sweden


That would be great just so we know what the status is. Btw, the part # is 07D-117-195-F, which I think is what it shows in your screenshot. Thanks!


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Phaetonlvr said:


> That would be great just so we know what the status is. Btw, the part # is 07D-117-195-F, which I think is what it shows in your screenshot. Thanks!


It is still available, on the shelf at VWs central depot in Kassel in Germany. If I order it I will have it after five working days to pick it up at my dealer in Sweden. Quite costy though, €35 a piece.

Lennart


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

My dealer has ordered Phaeton parts from Germany when there were none in the U.S.A. 

They will tell me how many are available and where the part is located. If a part is not in the U.S.A. they will check Germany.

This first URL is the official VW online parts site. Usually the official parts website will show when a part in No Longer Available (NLA).

https://parts.vw.com/p/54635712/07D117195F.html

The other ones I checked think it's still available also. 

(Don't know how I missed 1stvwparts the other day, they are in my favorites).

https://www.1stvwparts.com/oem-parts/volkswagen-rubb-mount-07d117195f 

https://www.jimellisvwparts.com/products/5143761/07D117195F.html

https://parts.volkswagensantamonica.com/oem-parts/volkswagen-rubb-mount-07d117195f

https://www.vwpartscenter.net/oem-parts/volkswagen-rubb-mount-07d117195f

https://www.vwsb.com/parts-center-index.htm?path=/search?search_str=07D117195F

https://www.vwpartsvortex.com/oem-parts/volkswagen-rubb-mount-07d117195f


ECS won't show it as NLA until you try to order it but they are an exception (ships in two days my a**).

https://www.ecstuning.com/Search/07...&utm_term=07D117195F&utm_content=Ad Group #13


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

ravenflies said:


> It is still available, on the shelf at VWs central depot in Kassel in Germany. If I order it I will have it after five working days to pick it up at my dealer in Sweden. Quite costy though, €35 a piece.
> 
> Lennart


Thanks for checking, Lennart, that's good news. I have 3 spare ones right now and considering the price I'll hold off for now. I might check with 1stvwparts to see if they can order this one direct from Germany at their price.


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## kalwis (Jun 21, 2013)

Hello Phaeton Voltage Fixers,

I'm going to try to join this club, with the help of the great info on this thread. My 04 W12 has experienced what appears to be intermittent alternator failures over a three month span as deduced by the upper connection B+ cable voltage reading bad to good is 11.9 VDC and 14.6 VDC while running with no pattern I know of. The load management interventions and routine low voltage system symptoms pile up when the voltage is low and disappear when high. Sometimes both while running or at starts the right volts are there, sometimes not. I wiggled a fiber optic scope down to the alternator from the top and was able to see the cooling connection areas and the surfaces were corrosion free. I optimistically thought (rarely works on Phaeton) that the problem might be a loose alternator-side cable connection. So I pulled the lower engine cover and through a process of opening access between the transmission cooler ATF lines with bungees and welded a rod extension to a low profile ratchet (13 mm socket) I was able to apply a tightening torque to the nut after fishing out the insulating cover. Upon testing, however, the upper B+ cable voltage is stuck at 11.9.

My conclusion is that either the alternator or the internal voltage regulator absolutely must be replaced.

Now the dilemma. My alternator is the Delphi version, not the Hitachi. I gather from the thread that new Delphi replacements are scarce at best, but the Hitachi version needs the cooling hoses also replaced. I don't want a used part and have to worry about a repeat replacement. So what are my options? My main concerns are:

1. How bad is installing a Hitachi new unit or rebuild as far as the new cooling lines replacement fit? I noticed a different mount location and there's not much room in there.

2. Has anyone had a local rebuild of their core which included voltage regulator replacement?

3. I've noted a consensus opinion that the water pump, belt, and idler pulley are good replacement targets while apart. Anything else?

Thanks,
Kim


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

All of mine have the Delphi unit, seems like that's the common one on the NAR W12 in '04. I only replaced the cooling line O-rings recently so can't speak to what's involved in swapping to a Hitachi unit but I was under the impression that the mounting itself is the same.

The cooling lines are different, or at least the metal fittings attaching to the alternator, but it shouldn't be too difficult to replace the lines. One connects right at the fitting closest to the lower radiator hose and I think the other one is also accessible. However, knowing VW it's probably an expensive part if it's still available. Or you could buy a used Hitachi unit that has the cooling lines attached to it, I have seen a few of those online back when I was looking at my o-ring issue.

If you move the front end into the service position you should definitey replace the parts you listed. I would add that there are two identical idler pulleys and don't forget to inspect the belt tensioner for noise on it's pulley and for a damaged rubber grommet (that one is a bit pricey, I think $150 or so if bought online).


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## kalwis (Jun 21, 2013)

Thanks Stephan!

I'm gathering parts now and will start in a week or so.

Incidentally, an outfit on the German Ebay site has some pretty good prices on rebuilt Delphi ($404 shipped with $50 core charge). I'm not sure if the ROW part fits the same as the NAR though, so I'll probably buy local.

Kim


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

I can recommend the aftermarket INA Belt Idler 5320305100, I put one on 4 years ago and it's still quiet, pretty cheap too at FCP Euro at $25.

The belt is a little pricey for what it is and you have to get the correct one. I tried the Continental #D4071010 which was listed as correct but is actually the wrong length and I ended up using the VW part. There's also a Contitech 7DPK2569 which I couldn't verify if correct.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I wish good luck to the mission :thumbup:

I have replaced the alternatos in a way called "easy way". Personally, I wouldn’t say “easy way,” but rather awkward (W12 engine).
Yes it in possible, but it have a lot of work (not so difficult).
The hardest, almost impossible is getting the water cooling connections disconnected and attached because there is so little of space.
Indeed, it is worth replacing all of the above engine parts at the same time.


- Jussi


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

I doubt that the alternator can be replaced in service position without removing the bumper and the radiator. I would have needed some extra joints in my arm for that.
It may be possible in some way I have overseen but I think you should be prepared for more than service position.

Lennart


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Service position means bringing the lock carrier (the assembly that holds the radiator) forward by about 10 inches. This requires bumper cover removal and disconnecting the radiator coolant hoses. To get even more access you can swing out the RH side even more since there are no other hoses, on the LH side you are limited because of the power steering and AC lines. I think there are photos of that at the top of this thread.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

*Generator replacement – the &quot;easy way&quot;*

Don’t want to mark words, just to make clear for everyone what to expect. Service position is actually just putting the lock carrier 10 cm forward without any other actions. Coolant hoses and similar things is betonad that. See workshop manual:









Lennart


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Good point Lennart. The radiator hoses don't have to be disconnected for the service position but for the alternator replacement he'll have to drain the coolant anyway so disconnecting the lower radiator hose is going to make his repair a lot easier because it facilities to move the lock carrier further then 10 cm on the RH side. Certainly not an "easy" job but significantly easier than dropping the engine.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Yes, no doubt about this way rather than dropping the engine. I attach two images that may be in some thread hear before just to show how much room you get with the radiator out of the way and how cramped things are to get to the attached things at the rear of the alternator. I tried some time before i found the only way, for me at least, to reach things. That is showed in the second image.


















Lennart


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


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## kalwis (Jun 21, 2013)

Thanks Lennart, Stephen, and Jussi, and all the previous posters. It's great to know you guys made it down the path, however thorny!

KIM


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

kalwis said:


> Thanks Lennart, Stephen, and Jussi, and all the previous posters. It's great to know you guys made it down the path, however thorny!
> 
> KIM


So did you get all your parts in and get this sorted? I haven't made a move yet and just trying to figure out what direction I should go in in terms of the alternator and which one to buy. I typically get all my stuff from Rockauto.com but they're sold out of the aftermarket alternator which is BBB/Vision. 

I'm also wondering if one would fit from an Audi A8 with the W12 as they have those in stock. 

Also, where is everyone getting the replacement pipes from? I'm glad you also mentioned the other parts to replace while in there. I was definitely going to do the serpentine belt, but didn't know about the other parts and where is everyone getting the water pump from? How difficult is that to replace? Since I have to drain the coolant it only makes sense. 

Thanks everyone for the help! Hopefully this is the end of my saga with this car and I can finally drive the thing.


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## kalwis (Jun 21, 2013)

I'm starting the tear down later this week. I need to clear some shop space. Since there's some question to correct parts replacement I'm waiting until I have everything open and existing PN's logged before I order replacements. I'd rather delay everything a week than play the parts lottery. I'm yet undecided whether to go with the German EBay refurbished Delphi alternator.

Kim


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

That makes sense! How much is that eBay alternator running? I'd definitely want all parts in hand before ordering from eBay. But going the eBay route makes sense. You'd be protected through PayPal if the part doesn't work. I'm not sure the dealer offers that type of peace of mind except for batteries.


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## kalwis (Jun 21, 2013)

The German EBay refurbished Delphi alternators are going for about $400 with a $50 added core charge. The sales are in Euros.

Kim


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

So about $530 USD. I'm thinking for the extra $182 I'll just buy a new one from the dealer to avoid the hassle of replacing other parts. I'll for sure be getting new o-rings by the brand mentioned earlier in this thread since they're chemical resistant. Anyone know where I can find those?


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

kalwis said:


> The German EBay refurbished Delphi alternators are going for about $400 with a $50 added core charge. The sales are in Euros.
> 
> Kim


Kim, what part numbers are you looking at? 

Is that $400.00 or €400,00?


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## kalwis (Jun 21, 2013)

The German EBay Ad... https://www.ebay.de/itm/VW-PHAETON-...420+PS&hash=item3d45273214:g:K6EAAOSwoBtW1rpt

329 Euro. Includes pulley.

Kim


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi,

Refurbished Delphi alternator.
See this link.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WATER-COOLED-ALTERNATOR-FOR-VW-Phaeton-Touareg-3-2-V6-DELPHI-190-AMP-10480486/183758681316?epid=1709588685&hash=item2ac8def4e4:g:SYIAAOSwZVpcq0FV

- Jussi


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

kalwis said:


> The German EBay Ad... https://www.ebay.de/itm/VW-PHAETON-...420+PS&hash=item3d45273214:g:K6EAAOSwoBtW1rpt
> 
> 329 Euro. Includes pulley.
> 
> Kim


OIC 

I think some thought it was 400 Euros but you used the dollar sign. 

I was looking them up by the VW part numbers yesterday. VWOA says the part number changed from the original so I looked it up by both part numbers. The ones I looked up yesterday were way more expensive except the used ones. 

I set my eBay search to "worldwide" and this auction shows up in my eBay login. If I go to another country, eBay logs me out. 

Sometimes I am looking on eBay.uk (for UK members) and I find Phaeton parts that have the prices listed in Pounds but are located in the USA. 

-Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

kalwis said:


> The German EBay Ad... https://www.ebay.de/itm/VW-PHAETON-...420+PS&hash=item3d45273214:g:K6EAAOSwoBtW1rpt
> 
> 329 Euro. Includes pulley.
> 
> Kim


Kim,

I decided to watch that auction and the seller sent me an offer for €319.00 but it also says "*Does not ship to United States*".

It sounds like they are ready to deal. If you find out that it is the correct part number, you could the seller an offer but also ask if they can ship to the U.S. 

-Eric


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

The part number I'm coming up with is: 07C-903-021-F or 07C903021F. Same number without the dashes. Cheapest I found was from VW for $656. I saw some off-brand type on eBay from Germany that was $556. I think the extra $100 is worth the peace of mind. If anyone else is finding different part numbers or cheaper prices please let me know.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

I'd recommend that you check with the supplier (I assume on of the VW dealers selling online) using your VIN to see what part # shows as correct (they one you listed is the same as on my W12s) and if it has been superseded by another number or not. They will also be able to tell you if there's any stock in the US and if not if there's any in stock in Germany. There might also be a rebuilt version from VW, the part number would typically be the same but with an X at the end.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Shyheim103 said:


> The part number I'm coming up with is: 07C-903-021-F or 07C903021F. Same number without the dashes. Cheapest I found was from VW for $656. I saw some off-brand type on eBay from Germany that was $556. I think the extra $100 is worth the peace of mind. If anyone else is finding different part numbers or cheaper prices please let me know.


07C903021F from post #10 is the part number that VWOA says is NLA:

https://parts.vw.com/p/48093338/07C903021F.html

If you click on the full diagram, it comes up with this (and it does have an X on the end):

https://parts.vw.com/p/Volkswagen__/Alternator-GENERATOR/54635646/07C903018X.html

That one is for 2004, 2005, 2006 V8 and 2004, 2005 W12.

If you click on Full Diagram again, you find this for the 2006 W12:

https://parts.vw.com/p/Volkswagen__/Alternator/48003937/07C903021NX.html

07C903021F and 07C903018X were the part numbers I was searching for on eBay the other day. 

The cheaper ones were found using the Delphi or Hitachi part numbers.

If your dealer has 07C903021F for $656.00, I'd be tempted to grab it if it was correct for my VIN. 

I'd just be worried that mine had been replaced in the past and my pipes didn't fit the new alternator.

-Eric


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## kalwis (Jun 21, 2013)

Hello,

I have received all VW parts for my 2004 W12 alternator replacement and will begin reassembly tomorrow, but I'm a bit confused on the alternator (Delphi, VW rebuild 07C-903-018X, $761.77 plus core) pulley fit. The rebuild did not include the pulley. We removed the old one without much effort, which is in good shape, then opened ELSA for the 6.0 liter alternator installation steps and found the statement that on the 6.0 L alternator the pulley cannot be replaced, and only the whole assembly can be replaced. Hmmm... I think we can (again!) improvise tools to torque the keeper to 80 Nm but why the ELSA warning and if true why does VW sell a rebuild without a pulley? 

Any ideas? Did any of you install a pulley on a replacement?

The rebuild is otherwise exactly the correct part matching the coolant line fits, wiring connections and mounting. 

Thanks,
Kim


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## 73blazer (Feb 19, 2020)

kalwis said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have received all VW parts for my 2004 W12 alternator replacement and will begin reassembly tomorrow, but I'm a bit confused on the alternator (Delphi, VW rebuild 07C-903-018X, $761.77 plus core) pulley fit. The rebuild did not include the pulley. We removed the old one without much effort, which is in good shape, then opened ELSA for the 6.0 liter alternator installation steps and found the statement that on the 6.0 L alternator the pulley cannot be replaced, and only the whole assembly can be replaced. Hmmm... I think we can (again!) improvise tools to torque the keeper to 80 Nm but why the ELSA warning and if true why does VW sell a rebuild without a pulley?
> 
> ...


Most OEM's will start consolidating parts and part #'s as vehicles get older to keep part stock up without having to stock "different" stuff. If they have two different parts that are the same or similiar, that will work for both, they'll consolidate it if they can. Like Honda used tto sell a turn signal for a motorcycle as lens, arm and wiring pigtail , since the arm and lens was same for several different bikes but the wiring pigtail was longer or shorter depending on the bike, as time went on, they consolidate and just sell a arm and lens as one part# that fits many bikes and the wiring is up to you now. As long as you can torque the pully fastener to the unit you'll be fine. It's possible they had the same alternator with some different pulley or no pulley on some other engine at some point and just relisted those as available for phaeton now.


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## kalwis (Jun 21, 2013)

73blazer said:


> Most OEM's will start consolidating parts and part #'s as vehicles get older to keep part stock up without having to stock "different" stuff. If they have two different parts that are the same or similiar, that will work for both, they'll consolidate it if they can. Like Honda used tto sell a turn signal for a motorcycle as lens, arm and wiring pigtail , since the arm and lens was same for several different bikes but the wiring pigtail was longer or shorter depending on the bike, as time went on, they consolidate and just sell a arm and lens as one part# that fits many bikes and the wiring is up to you now. As long as you can torque the pully fastener to the unit you'll be fine. It's possible they had the same alternator with some different pulley or no pulley on some other engine at some point and just relisted those as available for phaeton now.


73B... I think you're correct. It appears there's been several versions of the Delphi unit for sale with slight differences since the cars were built. They don't have a way to update repair manuals other than dealer bulletins and I doubt issue them for stuff like this. We got the pully on using a splined center rod inside a socket and pulled it up to torque just fine. Maybe on the road by next week!
Kim


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## kalwis (Jun 21, 2013)

Finally... had some time over the Holidays and the tremendous assistance of my shop technician Chris to finish the W12 alternator replacement plus the water pump, idler pulleys and tensioner. Add miscellaneous cracked brackets, serpentine belt and some electrical connectors and it was not exactly "easy" but doable. I've been running it several days now and I have the magic 14 volts out the alternator and a much quieter idle probably due to the other new stuff. Also, knock-on-wood, several electrical nuisances for the time being are absent.
In summary if you're not troubled over fabricating some tools and have plenty of time you can do the lock carrier access method yourself and save a ton of money vs. a dealer engine-out.

Kim


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## rangsudh (Mar 20, 2013)

Kim,

That is awesome, congratulations!

Where in the US are you located?


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## kalwis (Jun 21, 2013)

rangsudh,

I'm in Wisconsin, currently under a snow storm.


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

I just got my parts in today, horrible service so far from VWpartsvortex. Bought part number: 07C903021F for $656 along with a hose that was damaged that sits near the alternator. The next day they send me an email saying that the part isn't available and I'll have to get the rebuilt one. No pulley, and my $700 tab is now $1087. 

Took over 2 weeks to arrive and guess what? pulley has a chip on the lip, alternator has quite a bit of rust on the inside, but turns smoothly and the coolant ports are full of debris. Furthermore, they sent me the wrong hose. Part numbers aren't remotely close. Must have been packing another customer's coolant hose at the same time.
What I should've asked months ago is, what new o-rings are you guys putting on the coolant lines to the alternator?

Thanks in advance! Haven't driven the car in a year! And even then it was just to my new house.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Check post #15 in this thread for more details on the o-rings. I dealt with that last year and they are holding up fine. Mine was a Delphi alternator, not sure if got a Hitachi or a Delphi which apparently have slightly different cooling connection sizes.

I've never bought from vwpartsvortex before but have been a long-time customer of 1stvwparts and their customer service is excellent while their prices are just a little bit higher than vwpartsvortex.


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

So I started tackling the alternator yesterday evening. Today I'm to the point of removing the serpentine belt. However, I'm stuck at what bolt I'm supposed to use to detension the belt. Also, it appears as to what I think is the tensioner pulley is very, very worn. It's slight bumps in it, but nowhere near the ridges that the other pulleys have. Finally, I can't find this thing online at all for reference! When I look up the part I only see tensioners for the 4.2. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

You slacken the belt by putting a box wrench on the Hex shaped area behind the mounting bolt of the tensioner. You will need a 30mm or 1-3/16” socket or wrench.



















The tensioner itself is available new, I'm pretty sure it's part #07D903315J and I think it comes with the pulley.
Audi VW Belt Tensioner (A8 Quattro Passat) - Genuine VW Audi 07D903315J

Btw, that new idler pulley in the photo above, that's one of two identical ones on the W12 and I recommend replacing them while you are in there. They are about $26 each at FCP Euro for the aftermarket version from INA which is an OEM. Audi VW Drive Belt Tensioner Pulley - INA 07D145276C


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

Phaetonlvr said:


> You slacken the belt by putting a box wrench on the Hex shaped area behind the mounting bolt of the tensioner. You will need a 30mm or 1-3/16” socket or wrench.
> 
> View attachment 69789
> 
> ...


Awesome! Thank you!


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

That engine is super clean BTW, lol. Nothing like mine! You can tell mine has been sitting for a while. Not rusty but it looks like it has white mold all over it.


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

I also checked my pulleys and they both look like they were replaced not too long ago. Good to know SOMETHING is still cheap on these cars. I'm about to go grab a 30mm from Autozone.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Talking about cheap, RockAuto has the W12 serpentine belt from Dayco on close-out for something like $5 plus shipping. I think 73blazer told us about it and I just bought a couple. They are brand new but manufactured in 2013 but that shouldn't be a problem, they look still good.


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

Phaetonlvr said:


> Talking about cheap, RockAuto has the W12 serpentine belt from Dayco on close-out for something like $5 plus shipping. I think 73blazer told us about it and I just bought a couple. They are brand new but manufactured in 2013 but that shouldn't be a problem, they look still good.


Dang, I wish I saw this 2 days ago! It's not $5 for me. $35 is what I'm seeing. I definitely would've bought one.

One more question. I took a day off because it snowed today and yesterday. But how do I get the coolant pipes off the alternator? I got the alternator loose which was easy enough, but there seems to be some metal piece holding the pipes in place. I didn't want to just hammer and flat head chisel it out if that's not what you're supposed to do. 

I appreciate all the help!


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

It's still $4.49 for the Wholesaler Closeout but says only one remaining. Regular price is $35 which is not bad either considering the original VW parts is around $100.
DAYCO 6071012 Belt | RockAuto

The coolant pipes are secured by a metal plate that is attached with a bolt in the center between the two pipes, I think it's an Allen head bolt. It's really difficult to get your hand in there to undo the bolt and it's going to be even more challenging to get it back on. I only did the O-ring replacement on the cooling lines so I lowered the oil cooler/filter assembly to gain access but in your case I think you can get your hand in from the front since you have the front end off. Check post #36 in this thread and you'll get an idea.


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

Phaetonlvr said:


> It's still $4.49 for the Wholesaler Closeout but says only one remaining. Regular price is $35 which is not bad either considering the original VW parts is around $100.
> DAYCO 6071012 Belt | RockAuto
> 
> The coolant pipes are secured by a metal plate that is attached with a bolt in the center between the two pipes, I think it's an Allen head bolt. It's really difficult to get your hand in there to undo the bolt and it's going to be even more challenging to get it back on. I only did the O-ring replacement on the cooling lines so I lowered the oil cooler/filter assembly to gain access but in your case I think you can get your hand in from the front since you have the front end off. Check post #36 in this thread and you'll get an idea.


Thanks for everything Stephan! I just got the last belt. I'm going to go ahead and order the pulleys too since it'll be a few days before that belt gets in. The old belt is fine but for $13.52 after shipping... They have INA pulleys on Rockauto for $20 gonna get those as well.

As for the metal plate, I figured it out almost immediately after posting. Haven't gotten to it yet though, wanted to check back here before I went back out in the cold.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Shyheim103 said:


> As for the metal plate, I figured it out almost immediately after posting. Haven't gotten to it yet though, wanted to check back here before I went back out in the cold.


Some images to help If you don’t have the complete picture.










Detailed view of the metal plate









Connections with the plate removed.









Lennart


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

ravenflies said:


> Some images to help If you don’t have the complete picture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very helpful! Anyone know the size of the screw? I'll find out soon enough but someone may be able to chime in while I'm getting those tubes beside the alternator off. 

Another question. Since I'm replacing the pulleys and whatnot I'm thinking about replacing the water pump too. It's right there in my face and they're pretty inexpensive. But any brand I should shoot for? I'm definitely leaning toward one that has a metal impeller, but API is also having a closeout sale and they're $26.


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

OK, new question. Did I just get the worst stroke of luck or were your lower radiator hose clamps also faced exactly toward the rear? I have an idea of a tool I can use to get it depressed but just trying to exhaust all options before heading to the store in this snow/ice.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Shyheim103 said:


> Thanks for everything Stephan! I just got the last belt. I'm going to go ahead and order the pulleys too since it'll be a few days before that belt gets in. The old belt is fine but for $13.52 after shipping... They have INA pulleys on Rockauto for $20 gonna get those as well.


Same here, I think I bought 3 belts, at that price why not. Didn't realize RA carries INA now, just check that the parts number is the correct one compared to the FCP euro link I posted earlier.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Shyheim103 said:


> Another question. Since I'm replacing the pulleys and whatnot I'm thinking about replacing the water pump too. It's right there in my face and they're pretty inexpensive. But any brand I should shoot for? I'm definitely leaning toward one that has a metal impeller, but API is also having a closeout sale and they're $26.


The one I replaced years ago was an original new VW pump, not sure which aftermarket manufacturers are reliable. FCP Euro lists a HEPU apparently an OEM and it looks like it has a metal impeller.

Btw, the bolts on the water pump are triple square I believe, don't use a Torx on it.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Shyheim103 said:


> OK, new question. Did I just get the worst stroke of luck or were your lower radiator hose clamps also faced exactly toward the rear? I have an idea of a tool I can use to get it depressed but just trying to exhaust all options before heading to the store in this snow/ice.


Are you talking about the spring type clamps that you squeeze together to loosen? I use hose clamp pliers for those, similar to this https://www.amazon.com/Renekton-Removal-Installation-Ring-Type-Flat-Band/dp/B08FSZJHYC


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

Phaetonlvr said:


> Are you talking about the spring type clamps that you squeeze together to loosen? I use hose clamp pliers for those, similar to this https://www.amazon.com/Renekton-Removal-Installation-Ring-Type-Flat-Band/dp/B08FSZJHYC


Thanks again! I'm not sure those will help me though. The clamp is completely facing the rear. This has become the hardest part of the job! I've spent all day on this clamp and have gotten nowhere. Never been stuck on such a silly thing before. 

I'll look at it again tomorrow to see if those hose clamps will work that you linked me to. Off memory it's too tight to reach behind it to get a grip.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

If those clamps in the wrong location to grip with the hose clamp pliers you can used a flathead screwdriver to carefully push on one of the tangs in the direction that it would loosen the clamp. That way you can sometimes get them to rotate to a position where you have then access for the pliers.


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

Phaetonlvr said:


> If those clamps in the wrong location to grip with the hose clamp pliers you can used a flathead screwdriver to carefully push on one of the tangs in the direction that it would loosen the clamp. That way you can sometimes get them to rotate to a position where you have then access for the pliers.


Yep. That's what I usually do but these clamps are so thick! it hasn't worked. I'm going to keep at it. I considered just cutting the hose but realized they don't make it anymore! How do you not make a radiator hose anymore? Thanks again for all the help!


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## Phat One (Jul 10, 2009)

can you get a Vise grip in there?


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

I have one of these tools also, might work in your situation. https://www.amazon.com/Astro-Pneumatic-Tool-9409A-Pliers/dp/B003D3N7YW


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

You could also try a really small c-clamp, at least to get the clamp to rotate.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Phaetonlvr said:


> I have one of these tools also, might work in your situation. https://www.amazon.com/Astro-Pneumatic-Tool-9409A-Pliers/dp/B003D3N7YW


I would not manage my life with a Phaeton without this tool!

Lennart


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

Alright so I got it off! LOL, on top of it being difficult to reach it was also seized on there. Lubed it up and was able to get it without too much fuss once I got a grip. 

Now, on to this screw holding the cooling pipes on. What size is that thing? I know it's one of those hex bolts, but is it a 4, 5 or 3/16th? I was able to get my GoPro back there to get a good shot, but I don't want to strip it and without really being able to have eyes on it, I need to make sure it's the perfect fit. 

Anyone remember?


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

Phaetonlvr said:


> I have one of these tools also, might work in your situation. https://www.amazon.com/Astro-Pneumatic-Tool-9409A-Pliers/dp/B003D3N7YW


I just got this tool! LOL, had no idea something like this exists! But it was a tad too long, I ended up buying a much more expensive one with a shorter mechanism but I'm returning it. I plan on flying out in a day or so to buy an SC430. A lot less car to manage. Alas, the LS430 is nowhere near as refined, it's a lot less of a headache and parts are easily found. 

I may hold on to the Phaeton for at least another year or so, but I'm definitely not keeping it long-term. But I do want to do all I can for the next owner.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Shyheim103 said:


> Alright so I got it off! LOL, on top of it being difficult to reach it was also seized on there. Lubed it up and was able to get it without too much fuss once I got a grip.
> 
> Now, on to this screw holding the cooling pipes on. What size is that thing? I know it's one of those hex bolts, but is it a 4, 5 or 3/16th? I was able to get my GoPro back there to get a good shot, but I don't want to strip it and without really being able to have eyes on it, I need to make sure it's the perfect fit.
> 
> Anyone remember?


I have searched through every part of the house to find the metal bracket and the screw but I just have not found it...
I would not be to sure to trust it anyway as I have seen both torx and hex for that bracket. ETKA says hexagon head bolt (combi) M6X25, N 904 121 01. My guess is 5mm hex but I would try to place a hex bit and have a look with a GoPro or similar.

Lennart


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

ravenflies said:


> I have searched through every part of the house to find the metal bracket and the screw but I just have not found it...
> I would not be to sure to trust it anyway as I have seen both torx and hex for that bracket. ETKA says hexagon head bolt (combi) M6X25, N 904 121 01. My guess is 5mm hex but I would try to place a hex bit and have a look with a GoPro or similar.
> 
> Lennart
> ...


I found the part numbers 2 days ago. I had to travel to Atlanta briefly yesterday and while I'm back home I'm BEAT! I have to go pick up some coolant but I'll pick up another screw while I'm there finding an appropriate o-ring is proving difficult as it doesn't seem any of the compounds I'm reading abotu will hold up permanently over-time. Guess I'll just get them from the dealer.


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

Yet another question. Unlike the pictures in the beginning of this thread, my cooling tubes aren't stainless steel looking. They're black. I've removed the bolt that secures the tubes in place... however, my tubes are stuck very nicely in the alternator. The top of the couplings are hexagonal as if you'd put a wrench on it, but they don't screw in so I'm thinking that has more to do with the plate that holds them on. 

How do I get these off? I'm considering lubing them up and trying to tap them off. Something is on the back of the alternator that won't allow me to get it out of place. I assume it's the coolant line closest to the left side (North America driver's side) of the car. 

Thanks again for everyone's help. I'm also asking detailed questions (and filming) so this won't be so much of a challenge for the next person.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Shyheim103 said:


> Yet another question. Unlike the pictures in the beginning of this thread, my cooling tubes aren't stainless steel looking. They're black. I've removed the bolt that secures the tubes in place... however, my tubes are stuck very nicely in the alternator. The top of the couplings are hexagonal as if you'd put a wrench on it, but they don't screw in so I'm thinking that has more to do with the plate that holds them on.
> 
> How do I get these off? I'm considering lubing them up and trying to tap them off. Something is on the back of the alternator that won't allow me to get it out of place. I assume it's the coolant line closest to the left side (North America driver's side) of the car.
> 
> Thanks again for everyone's help. I'm also asking detailed questions (and filming) so this won't be so much of a challenge for the next person.


You can use the hex grip to twist them back and forth while trying to pull them out. The thing holding the alternator: have you managed to get the plus cable disconnected? That one will not give more than a few cm movement when connected. And there could be a metal cable fastener if I remember correctly, I think it is mounted at the marked point in the image









Lennart


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

ravenflies said:


> You can use the hex grip to twist them back and forth while trying to pull them out. The thing holding the alternator: have you managed to get the plus cable disconnected? That one will not give more than a few cm movement when connected. And there could be a metal cable fastener if I remember correctly, I think it is mounted at the marked point in the image
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nope I have not gotten that disconnected yet. I disconnected the harness, to which the plastic around it broke in several pieces as soon as I pushed the button down, smh. That allowed it to move a lot more; but I figured it was the positive cable. Shooting in the dark on what size it is, but I'm assuming a 12mm? At least it's a nut so it will be easier to remove than the 3/16ths hex screw for the coolant lines.

Thanks for the information on just wiggling them back and forth. I thought so, but I wasn't trying to break anything. Although, if it continues to give me problems I'll get aggressive with them and just replace them. Thanks for the heads up on the fastener! I wouldn't have seen that.


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

The alternator is off! I couldn't have done it without my wife. My hands are too big. She made slight work of the cap and nut for the positive cable. My big hands could only reach far enough for my middle finger to just feel the top of the cap with my hands pancake flat. I should've had her out here from the beginning!

Now I'm going to take a break for the rest of the day. My neck is tightening up a bit again. But I'm going to change some hoses, change the two pulleys and change the water pump before I go put the new alternator on. They didn't do the best job at cleaning the reman unit either so I'm going to flush it with some distilled water before installing. Oh yeah, and I also have new o-rings to do as well. Think I'm going to just remove the connectors, clean them up with brake fluid, lube it up with some coolant and put the o-rings on.

Will report back once she's all buttoned back up!


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

That's good news! Now that you have seen it firsthand, it will be easier to put it back together.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Shyheim103 said:


> At least it's a nut so it will be easier to remove than the 3/16ths hex screw for the coolant lines.


I was just in the manual looking up torque specs and the .pdf manual says that bolt is M6x20mm. You can check it now that it's out to make sure of the size and if it's an Allen head, Triple Square or Torx head.


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

This has been quite the saga. Alright, so I went to replace the water pump and it seems someone has been there before as one of the bolts is stripped. Made me think, "Well, obviously it's been replaced". Well, maybe not, because the spindle that holds the pulley (which I damaged ever so slightly when removing)  is rusted to crap and looks original. Seems someone paid for a water pump job, and after they stripped the screw decided to just say they did it. After all, it's not like there's room enough to view it for yourself.

So I'm on day 3 now of trying to remove that screw with no luck. Just ordered over $100's worth of tools to extract it as the $20 set from Lowe's didn't work.

In addition... the OEM water pump I paid $227 for (found it way cheaper at other dealer's after the fact) has a plastic impeller. Bought an aftermarket from RockAuto and the finish is... well... looks like it was made in China and guess what? It was! So plastic impeller it is. At least I know it'll last 80K or so. 

Finally, this was never mentioned, or I just got duped. The alternator wasn't complete. Yes, you have to buy the pulley, but you also need the ring that the pulley sits on to spin freely as well as a washer. The washer comes as a kit with the nut, but for some reason they just send you the nut without the washer causing you to rebuy the nut to get the washer. 

Worst car I've ever worked on in my life. Drives better than anything I've ever worked on too though, lol. So it continues...


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

That's a bummer. I think 73blazer recently ran into the same issue with the water pump mounting bolt on his W12, I think he used an extractor set to get it out, check out his thread https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/w1...x.com/threads/w12-overheating.9411703/page-14


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

Phaetonlvr said:


> That's a bummer. I think 73blazer recently ran into the same issue with the water pump mounting bolt on his W12, I think he used an extractor set to get it out, check out his thread https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/w1...x.com/threads/w12-overheating.9411703/page-14


Day 6 and my $100 extractor set came in from Lowe's today.... made VERY swift work of those bolts! Quality extractor sets should be more readily available. I had every intention of returning them but not anymore! Other than that, it was actually the easiest water pump I've ever replaced. VW did an excellent job with sealing without the need of any goopy gaskets. Impressed! So I'm starting to button everything back up now. Well, not quite. I still am waiting on a new water pump pulley and since I'm here... why not a new tensioner? The roller on mine was a little noisy and the rest of it just looked like it had been at the bottom of the sea. I also might wipe the front of the motor down with some rust inhibitor or PB blaster to get the surface corrosion off. Looks nasty!


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Which extractor set did you get?


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## Shyheim103 (Aug 27, 2017)

Phaetonlvr said:


> Which extractor set did you get?


Sorry for the delay, but the saga continues. I've got a leaky PCV valve. While I don't need the car in service mode to replace this, I want to do it. I'm also still waiting for a new water pump pulley but that's it! Then I'll just need to put it back together.

But I got this one: https://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Tools-53227-Multi-Spline-Extractor/dp/B0002SRG66

The crazy thing is I legit just bought it from Lowe's March 9, 2021 and now, it's not on their site anymore! It'll show it, but once you click, it says it's been moved or deleted. Weird. I guess I better for sure hold on to it. Only seems to be a few left on Amazon too.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

I've seen that set before, looks like great quality. I guess Zoro Tools, who I've bought from many times before, has it for $68 but with extended lead time, sounds like they might be drop-shipping it so it might or might not be available.
Irwin Hanson 53227 $68.29 Screw Extractor Set, 25 Pcs | Zoro.com


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## rangsudh (Mar 20, 2013)

Stephan, Chris, Kim or anyone else who has replaced their alternator, I would like to ask a small favor. I am trying to better understand what can be done about the sometimes-low charging voltage on some of our cars even with new alternators and LHS batteries. In order to better understand the factory design and its vulnerabilities, I would like to identify exactly which voltage regulator chip is used in our alternators.

From Juhani's efforts with his V10 TDI Phaeton, he suspects it is this one: https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/l9466.pdf but I need to confirm it.
This is the chip that is visible under the metal clip in the last picture of post #1 of this thread (by Willem).

Can anyone who has their old/replaced alternator lying around remove the metal clip and send me photos of:

a) The identification number on the paper label on the chip
b) The identification number printed on the chip after careful removal of the paper label

Thanks in advance to anyone who may be able to help.


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## kalwis (Jun 21, 2013)

Rangsudh,

Sorry, my deal was a core exchange and at the time I was eager to send the old one out of my sight.

Since the replacement I've been watching the voltmeter more and I think the new alternator is doing the job well. Following a rapid engine RPM slowdown the voltage will momentarily drop about 3/4 Volt, but then creeps right back up and in about four seconds the needle again is maintained at 14. I'm not familiar with VR applications, but are you looking for a quicker response rate? As far as capability of charging the electronics battery the response delay doesn't seem significant.

Kim


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## rangsudh (Mar 20, 2013)

Hi Kim,

No, I am not looking for a more rapid response rate. To recap, there are many kinds of issues Phaeton owners can have with their battery charging system. Of those, one common kind, like yours, Willem and Shyheim103 (Chris?) experience fluctuating alternator output voltage or a voltage that never hits 14V. Some of these are caused by wiring resistance or corroded cables and junction points. Many others are caused by a defective alternator that was spoilt by the dreaded coolant leak from the O-rings.

However, a second class of problems is experienced by those who have perfectly fine alternators and batteries, but who drain the LHS battery considerably between driving the car. Or they do not drive the car on long trips, drive it infrequently. Or they live in cold climates, where batteries need considerably higher charging voltage.

In such cases, even a steady 14V is not adequate to recharge the heavily depleted battery _during the short/infrequent drives_, which causes a lot of problems down the line. This problem is exacerbated by the more modern AGM batteries, which all require 14.4V or even 14.6V for fast recharging from a deeply discharged state. 14V is only adequate to recharge shallow discharged batteries, although it all depends on the battery type. Some good insight into the problem can be found here:



http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/controllers.html



and some more technical background here:





Fast charging of sealed lead acid batteries, SLA, VRLA batteries can be charged fast.


Quick charging VRLA, valve regulated lead acid batteries, gel cells, and AGM, absorbed glass mat batteries



www.powerstream.com





----
The problem I am trying to solve is described more fully here:









My Phaeton's electrical problems are now long gone...


My Phaeton's electrical problems long gone My 2004 V8 Phaeton is near 25,000 miles. When I bought the car, there was an occasional electrical problem that resolved upon restarting. These various problems have been dicussed before in multiple threads. A funny thing happened somewhere after...




www.vwvortex.com





and here:









Can we fix our low voltage issues permanently?


I think everyone here has dealt with left battery issues more than once. For better or worse it's a design issue on this car. The right battery will be maintained in an excellent state of charge, but the left one will be kept partly charged at best, particularly during winter. My battery and...




www.vwvortex.com





Note: This does NOT affect all Phaetons -- it depends on the climate/temperature, the exact battery and its condition, the condition of the charging system, including wiring, and most importantly, your driving style. But it affects a lot of folks. Some get around it by placing the battery on an AC-powered maintainer, others use a solar trickle charger and so on.

The core problem is that VW was very conservative (or a bit misguided) when specifying the Phaeton alternator output voltage at 14V. As the articles above explain, that avoids overcharging but greatly increases the risk of undercharging. Even by 2004, ordinary non-AGM batteries in cars were using 14.4V, so it's a bit inexplicable why Phaetons were designed closer to 14V (and some only get 13.9V or lower consistently -- that 0.1V deficit can make a HUGE difference to keeping the LHS battery properly charged by simply driving the car.)

One of our members (Juhani) was able to solve all his problems by tricking the regulator inside the alternator to maintain a higher output voltage. But a better way of doing it would be to track down the exact IC used and finding a compatible replacement that has a different setpoint voltage. To do this right, one needs to know exactly what is being used in the default alternator. Then various options can be investigated.

Personally, now I understand what is going on, I view this as a design deficiency in the car. This was the first car VW made which had dual batteries and also had the battery in the trunk, which is much cooler than the engine compartment. Since all alternator voltage regulators are temperature-compensated, they should have actually biased the setpoint voltage to the higher side, given the battery is located in a cooler area. Instead, they forgot, or played it very safe and ended up with 14V instead of 14.4V, which robs an immense amount of charging current in real-life operation. The LHS battery should at least have had a battery sense terminal feeding back to the alternator voltage terminal and a temperature-sensor input too. (The RHS battery has a temp sensor and a sophisticated DC/DC charger that puts out 14.7V for fast charging, _and rarely needs it_ but alas, not the LHS battery, _which needs fast charging much more often_). Go figure.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Very interesting write-up, thanks for that. Unfortunaelty I can't contribute any info and I only fixed the coolant leak issue on my W12 alternator without removing it so I don't have one to look up the info you need. Keep us posted on what you find out, that would really benefit a lot of us.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

OK… Special tool required. After all years a new type of VW screw for me.








































This is a backup alternator that never made it into the car, should be the same part number as the one I put in but without the ”X” for exchange.
Hope this is what you are looking for and that If is readable.

Lennart


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## kalwis (Jun 21, 2013)

rangsudh said:


> To do this right, one needs to know exactly what is being used in the default alternator. Then various options can be investigated.


I would add another task. There are a plethora of microcontrollers on Phaetons. A potential side effect of raising the voltage regulator output level is that one or more controller may not handle the _higher_ Vcc supply voltage. If they are all happy with it, OK. But this might be why the VW engineers used the voltage boost on the starter motor charging only, leaving the lower supply level for the electronics.

Good project and concept out of the box! 

Kim


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## rangsudh (Mar 20, 2013)

Hi Lennart,

Awesome, thanks for the prompt response!

Those are some very legible photos -- and an interesting tool you seem to have created to get to them.

I will use the chip info to see what I can track down.

Kim,

Yes, there is some risk of using a too-high voltage that can damage controllers and I have considered it. We do have to be careful. But if you review a lot of the actual voltage measurements people have reported on this forum, many have seen 14.6V long-term from their alternators with no ill effect. In particular, V10 TDI alternators are usually Hitachi rather than Delphi, and although they are externally marked "14V 190A" same as the Delphi ones, those all seem to put out 14.2V to 14.7V with no ill effect. Same with Touaregs.

After Juhani tweaked his regulator to fool it into supplying 14.x V, his Phaeton ran flawlessly for months will no ill-effect and a fully-charged battery without long drives or supplemental charging. I believe this risk is fairly low as long as we stay at around 14.7V max. That is ~15% higher than a fully-charged AGM battery puts out. Also, as some of the above articles point out, even by 2004, most automotive electronics vendors would have been creating controllers capable of working under 14.4--14.7V as the circuits are created for all car manufacturers, not customized to just a single OEM/vehicle's lower-than-usual requirement (which itself is due to the dual-battery scheme).

But hey, this is all a long shot... who knows if any easy improvement is even possible...

This is such an amazing car, it's just a pity that some of these issues affect a few cars. Now I understand why there may be some truth to the rumors that "half the engineering team quit when Piech laid out his list of 10 requirements" for the car. When you aim so high, inevitably something has to suffer and it is usually what we call RAS -- Reliability, Availability, Serviceability. I can imagine that charging issues would be difficult to catch easily by lab tests or even field tests of the prototypes before launch -- given you need battery aging, degraded wiring, insufficient wiring, coolant leaks into the alternator etc.

For reasons I've never understood (or investigated) Japanese cars do have better RAS. I have heard that Toyota etc. reward engineers who make design improvements for RAS -- it is considered a first-class goal, but alas Piech may not have had it in his list. (He did care a lot about quality -- but that was usually about things like panel gaps, orange peel, door seals etc. and not the same as long-term RAS.) The German cars of that era seem to have ignored RAS in general, not just the Phaeton and not just VW.

I've long wished that PanEuropean could get some of us in front of whatever design team is designing the next Phaeton (electric, maybe) so we can provide input into these issues. My day job consists of managing electronics/chip engineering teams for a large company, and I would kill for good customer input early in the design cycle. Simple things can make such a huge difference. e.g. better O-rings could have been specified for the alternator; O-rings could even have been avoided in favor of a different scheme with gaskets. Or multiple O-rings could have been used, like the Bufkin pipe metal replacement. Or the ports could have been male/nipples instead of female/sockets. Or most importantly, the alternator regulator could have been sealed against coolant intrusion. Or the inlet and outlet ports for the coolant could have been located on the bottom of the alternator rather than on the top, so any leak would not drip into the voltage regulator. Not very hard to do, given the bespoke nature of this car.

Another pet peeve of mine with this wonderful car is the horrible parts diagrams. They are never quite complete. Or easy to lookup. Or even accurate! VW should open-source their part catalogs and offer a $1000 reward to anyone who finds an error and $100 to anyone who finds an optimization they adopt. The first car company that does this (and simultaneously docks the bonus of the folks who allowed those bugs to creep in) will enjoy unprecedented quality of parts catalogs and much goodwill from its customers, dealers and vendors.

Note that bad batteries can stress the charging system and cause the alternator to fail. Later the failing alternator will in turn cause even new batteries to be undercharged and fail prematurely -- a vicious cycle.

On that note, here is a link I ran into yesterday that Phaeton enthusiasts may truly appreciate -- enjoy!



“Water Cooled” Alternator, Really??? |


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## rangsudh (Mar 20, 2013)

Lennart,

The second line is R881SGS01 or R88180301 or ... ?


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

rangsudh said:


> Lennart,
> 
> The second line is R881SGS01 or R88180301 or ... ?


I would say R881S0301. It i s even harder to read live, but I am quite sure.

Lennart


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## rangsudh (Mar 20, 2013)

Lennart,

My sources tell me that frequently there is printed information on the other side of the chip that could be needed to identify it. If feasible (may require desoldering the regulator) and not too much trouble, could you try to get that also? If not, that's fine, this is a long shot anyway...

Thanks!


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

rangsudh said:


> Lennart,
> 
> My sources tell me that frequently there is printed information on the other side of the chip that could be needed to identify it. If feasible (may require desoldering the alternator) and not too much trouble, could you try to get that also? If not, that's fine, this is a long shot anyway...
> 
> Thanks!


OK, that’s not that easy to do. Soldering is one thing but there is some potting around it that makes me reluctant to go there. This is a working alternator that I don’t want to mess up, the replaced one went back to VW as exchange part. I have a burned one somewhere for the W8 that I can investigate regarding the potting and see If it is possible to detach without destroying anything, same alternator but lower amps.
So for the moment I can’t help you there.

Lennart


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## rangsudh (Mar 20, 2013)

Thanks Lennart, the W8 one would also be useful but again no rush, and please don't bother if it is too much trouble.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

rangsudh said:


> Thanks Lennart, the W8 one would also be useful but again no rush, and please don't bother if it is too much trouble.


I will check a soon as time allows!


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## rangsudh (Mar 20, 2013)

Lennart, one more request:

It seems that the regulator itself has an OEM part number, which can help to shed light on any alternate options.

As can be seen in the picture here: 1235.0US $ |Alternator Voltage Regulator,DE1750,VR D745,235542,236563,23162,130972,10480403,10480407, 001500850,A0001502450,VRG36221|voltage regulator power supply|voltage regulator line regulationvoltage regulator transformer - AliExpress

there is a part number (DE1750, in this case) printed in black lettering on the side of the brown L-DFM electrical connector.

Would you be able to check if there is a similar part number on your alternator, both the Phaeton and the Passat?

Thanks.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

rangsudh said:


> Lennart, one more request:
> 
> It seems that the regulator itself has an OEM part number, which can help to shed light on any alternate options.
> 
> ...


Hm…
The link shows a bike, I think something went wrong there. Could you have another look so I can find things easier?

Lennart


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## rangsudh (Mar 20, 2013)

Lennart,

Weird. Okay, can you try this instead: 1235.0US $ |Alternator Voltage Regulator,DE1750,VR D745,235542,236563,23162,130972,10480403,10480407, 001500850,A0001502450,VRG36221|voltage regulator power supply|voltage regulator line regulationvoltage regulator transformer - AliExpress

Thanks.


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## rangsudh (Mar 20, 2013)

If not, just paste this into your browser URL box: www.aliexpress.com/item/2036400819.html, and then type in "https://" at the beginning of it and then try visiting that link? (I see that the forum software is making some automatic edits to what is being pasted, some kind of reinterpretation, perhaps...)


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

rangsudh said:


> If not, just paste this into your browser URL box: www.aliexpress.com/item/2036400819.html, and then type in "https://" at the beginning of it and then try visiting that link? (I see that the forum software is making some automatic edits to what is being pasted, some kind of reinterpretation, perhaps...)


There I got it! Could be done by selecting ”open with safari” on the IPhone as well. I just finnished an eight hour trip with the P to Norway and will be there for the rest of the week. Then another 535 km journey back home. I wll check as soon as I can.

Lennart


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## rangsudh (Mar 20, 2013)

ravenflies said:


> There I got it! Could be done by selecting ”open with safari” on the IPhone as well. I just finnished an eight hour trip with the P to Norway and will be there for the rest of the week. Then another 535 km journey back home. I wll check as soon as I can.
> 
> Lennart


No rush at all, and many thanks!


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

rangsudh said:


> No rush at all, and many thanks!


Ok, I had a look at the W12 alternator and found no number on that one. I will try once more to see if I can find any marking at all, maybe placed somewhere else.
I found the W8 alternator but without the interresting part. If my memory serves me right it went into the bin after a tear down ”investigation” as it was badly burned.

Lennart


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## Simpoo (Dec 28, 2021)

ravenflies said:


> Yes, no doubt about this way rather than dropping the engine. I attach two images that may be in some thread hear before just to show how much room you get with the radiator out of the way and how cramped things are to get to the attached things at the rear of the alternator. I tried some time before i found the only way, for me at least, to reach things. That is showed in the second image.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hej, har problem med min ny införskaffade Phaeton 2003 W12. Tänkte höra går det att byta Multirem, spännare och dem 2st andra tomma hjulen. Pos/ Art: 11. 07C 145 933 S , 12. 07D 145 276 C och 13. 07D 903 315 J
utan att lossa hela fronten/kylaren? går det att komma åt från serviceläge och byta dessa?? Mitt problem är att spännaren är dålig så den ej spänner multiremmen som den ska vilket göra att generatorn ej laddar som den ska (Man ser hur hjulet låter och rör sig upp och ner vid tomgång)  Tack på förhand MVH Simon


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I brought the belt, the tensioner and a pulley to my VW dealer and had the head mechanic replace them on my 2004 W12. I didn't know it took two pulleys but he didn't need to replace both.

The mechanic had to remove the front bumper.

He said he could have done the job without removing the front end if it was just the belt.

He said he might be able to replace a pulley or both without removing the front but wasn't positive.

He said the front had to come off to replace the tensioner.

He doesn't remove the front if he doesn't have to. He replaced the combi valves and hooked up the vacuum lines on the same Phaeton without removing the front.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

I had a look at this too and, yes, the belt is possible to change in service position but I can’t find any clear info about the tensioner or the rollers. It looks like I will have to agree with the tech in the post above.
You could always plan for a bumper removal and give it a try in service position before.

Lennart


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

ravenflies said:


> I had a look at this too and, yes, the belt is possible to change in service position but I can’t find any clear info about the tensioner or the rollers. It looks like I will have to agree with the tech in the post above.
> You could always plan for a bumper removal and give it a try in service position before.
> 
> Lennart


I meant the bumper cover and I think the internal bumper bar was put into the service position. 

The whole job was done in a few hours.

The belt itself would not have required the bumper cover to be removed.


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## Simpoo (Dec 28, 2021)




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## Simpoo (Dec 28, 2021)

Hello, Phaeton experts 

I have problem with my alternator.... I have buy new double poly v-belt, idler pulley x 2 and tensioner with damper. I hope it will work to change the parts.. because left battery don't charge more than 13V but the starter battery charge over 15 volts.. I have load up two videos' one Youtube to show the problem with the tensioner... can it be the problem? Any other ides?

Links to Youtube:


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

That tensioner sure looks suspect and needs to be changed. Not sure about your charging issues, the RH battery gets a higher charging voltage then the LH side by design but I don't recall the typical charging voltage for each side. There are plenty of threads on that subject.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Did you clean off the corrosion on the ground connection?

I see Stephan has just answered your question about the belt tension.

The tensioner is supposed to give a little. I don't know how much. If you suspect it, change it. I changed mine because the belt needed changing.

It's not a timing belt so it's not _that _critical to the health of the engine. (It is in that it runs the coolant pump but you won't destroy the engine the instant it breaks. If it's loose that won't throw off the timing and destroy the engine either.)

VW has a tensioner gauge but it's for timing belts.

VW210, Gauge - Belt Tension - VW Authorized Tools and Equipment (snapon.com)

On the Scirocco you twist the timing belt midway between the pulleys which was kind of unscientific. I don't remember if they showed the gauge in the Bentley manual.

Be sure to put the belt on correctly for your engine or the A/C compressor will run backwards.


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## Simpoo (Dec 28, 2021)

Hello, 
I need help from people with better skills than me  

I have decided to change generator on my Phaeton 2003 W12 BAN ( Chassis number: WVW ZZZ 3D Z 3 8 002392 ) 
Part I have both: 
*Tensioner 07D903315J original VW 
*Two Pulleys MAXGEAR 54-0576 
*DAYCO 7DPK2569
*___*

Parts I should order: 

1.
Which generator fit for 2003?
"This part fits your 2004 Volkswagen Phaeton" 2004-2006 Volkswagen Phaeton Alternator 07C-903-021-F | VW Car Part 
That's this part fit for Phaeton 2003 W12 BAN 420 hp to??

2.
Which connecotor rube seal for the generator? 
Connector Tube Seal - Volkswagen (N-907-834-01) 2004-2010 Volkswagen Touareg Connector Tube Seal N-907-834-01 | VW Parts Vortex
Works this one??? 

3. 
Thinking to replace water pump too, which one fits?? Any ideas?? looking for some with good 
quality and good price that fits well. which number? 


Thanks in advance


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## Simpoo (Dec 28, 2021)

What is the difference between generator 07C903018X and 07C903021F ??? My VW workshop told me I should buy the 07C903018X generator.. but the generator cost 888 dollar and the other one (07C903021F ) cost 656 dollar for original.. Aftermarket cost like 340 dollar but I don't think its good? Can some one help me out?


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## rangsudh (Mar 20, 2013)

Early W12s came with the 07C903021F installed.
This one seems to be pretty much discontinued and unavailable in the USA.

Later W12s came with the 07C903018 installed.
Although electrically identical, it is not clear if this had any notable improvements (e.g. reliability) or it was just a supplier change or other minor change.

07C903018X means it is a remanufactured version of 07C903018.


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## Simpoo (Dec 28, 2021)

rangsudh said:


> Early W12s came with the 07C903021F installed.
> This one seems to be pretty much discontinued and unavailable in the USA.
> 
> Later W12s came with the 07C903018 installed.
> ...


Thanks a lot  Do you now which waterpump fits to? (w12 2003 BAN) Part number?


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## Simpoo (Dec 28, 2021)

Hello again, 
Does this waterpump ( Part Number: 07D121008A ) fit a W12 BAN year 2003?? its cost like 187 dollar .... And a aftermarket cost like 55 dollar.. It is fine to buy a aftermarket? and which brand 
in such cases?? metal or plastic impeller??


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Which aftermarket pump are you looking at? You may be looking at OE or EOM. You'd probably have to ask the company if they use plastic or metal impellers.

FCP Euro has Original, OE, OEM and Aftermarket parts and tells you what the terms mean and which category a part fits into.

Since it's a US company, it won't list 2003 Phaeton parts but you can check for 2004 ~ 2006 W12 BAP parts.

Genuine and OEM Replacement Car Parts Online | BMW Volvo Audi VW Mercedes Porsche Saab | FCP Euro

7zap should show you 2003 part numbers or you can get part numbers from a VW dealer.

Group Parts Phaeton (PHAE) [EUROPA 2003 year] (7zap.com)


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