# DSG slipping in reverse on a hill?



## FMinMI (Dec 25, 2009)

Hello all,
I am not sure if this part of the same problem of my EOS lurching forward or not but I noticed a new, unexpected issue. My driveway has an incline (about 5 degrees) and I like to back my car into the garage on some days so if it snows that night, I only have to go forward. When backing up today (slowly) I noticed that the transmission seemed to disengage, then re-engage. So, while backing up, I put my foot on the brake, then gave it gas. RPMs went up to 1500 but the car did NOT want to go backwards. I could not get the RPMs up any higher, and only after releasing the brakes did the transmission start to 'grab' and go backward. My first thought was maybe there was programming to prevent revving in reverse. But then I thought 'what if the fluid level is low and since I am on an incline it cannot get fluid to make it move'? 
Also, once I released the brake it did start to move but I again get this jerking movement -- transmission catches, starts backing up, RPMs go down, reverse speed slows down, then RPMs shoot up several hundred, car jerks backward, .... I cannot keep a steady RPM / speed as I go in reverse up the driveway. It does not seem to do this on level ground or if going downhill (but I have not tried to reproduce this problem in those cases).
How does one check the fluid level in the DSG? 
Does anyone know if there is programming that prevents revving in reverse with your foot on the brake, and to disengage the transmission until you release your brake pedal?
Thanks.
UPDATE: I find it does the same thing in DRIVE, and it does not matter if going up the hill or being on a flat surface -- I stop, try to REV it up, it goes up to 1500 RPM, I briefly feel the car torquing up and then it is like the transmission disengages after about 1 second. If I let go of the brake while still keeping the REVs up, the car does not go forward for about 0.5 seconds, then the transmission catches and the tires squeal and the car moves forward... 


_Modified by FMinMI at 9:14 AM 1-21-2010_


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## piston (Oct 17, 2008)

*Re: DSG slipping in reverse on a hill? (FMinMI)*

I believe there is something in the ECU/DSG programming that causes the gears not to engage while you have the foot on the brake and asserting throttle.
I noticed this while downtown were we have steep inclines and while trying to parallel park, I try to move forward after getting in to the spot and when I release the brake, it takes a second for the gear to engage after being in reverse.
Also, if I try to throttle while I have my foot on the gas to move forward/uphill, the car does not seem to move even when I gently release the brake. The brake must be fully released for the car to move forward.


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## FMinMI (Dec 25, 2009)

*Re: DSG slipping in reverse on a hill? (piston)*


_Quote, originally posted by *piston* »_I believe there is something in the ECU/DSG programming that causes the gears not to engage while you have the foot on the brake and asserting throttle.
I noticed this while downtown were we have steep inclines and while trying to parallel park, I try to move forward after getting in to the spot and when I release the brake, it takes a second for the gear to engage after being in reverse.
Also, if I try to throttle while I have my foot on the gas to move forward/uphill, the car does not seem to move even when I gently release the brake. The brake must be fully released for the car to move forward.

Well, I can understand the feature with the brake on but what it is doing without the brake on is driving me crazy as I cannot keep a steady, slow backing-up (and sometimes forward) movement -- it jerks like someone who does not know how to use a manual transmission. And when I shift in D or R initially it seems to take a second or so for it to 'catch'. If I don't wait and give it some gas it catches 'violently' (overstated but not sure what is the best word to use) and will jerk forward, as if, on a GM car, you rev it up somewhat and move the gear select lever from N to D. I am worried that it will do this at the wrong time and I will back into the wall or the car in front of me. 
I am going to the dealer again in a week to have some seals replaced under warranty and I will force the issue to have them test drive it with me in it. I guess I will also send an email to the VW customer service group...


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## VWRedux (Jun 3, 2009)

*Re: DSG slipping in reverse on a hill? (FMinMI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FMinMI* »_
I am going to the dealer again in a week to have some seals replaced under warranty and I will force the issue to have them test drive it with me in it. I guess I will also send an email to the VW customer service group...

Good idea.... do ASAP.... sound like the DSG's MU is starting to act up..... good luck....


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## a2lowvw (Dec 17, 2000)

*Re: DSG slipping in reverse on a hill? (VWRedux)*

foot on brakes limits rpms. pull up to a hill let car idle and release brake with no gas what does it do? if the gear engages and car starts to slowly move its normal (depending upon the slope of the hill it may stay still and not move forward). if it engages then disengages the clutch and the car stops moving you likely have an issue. remember once you let go of the brakes don't touch the pedals


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## FMinMI (Dec 25, 2009)

*Re: DSG slipping in reverse on a hill? (a2lowvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *a2lowvw* »_foot on brakes limits rpms. 

On flat ground, 1500 RPM max AND the transmission disengages. If I let off the brake with gas pedal still pushed, car does not go forward for about 1 second, then it abruptly catches and takes off.

_Quote, originally posted by *a2lowvw* »_pull up to a hill let car idle and release brake with no gas what does it do? if the gear engages and car starts to slowly move its normal (depending upon the slope of the hill it may stay still and not move forward). if it engages then disengages the clutch and the car stops moving you likely have an issue. remember once you let go of the brakes don't touch the pedals

Not a lot of hills around here, but my driveway is about a 5 degree incline. In reverse, at the bottom, I put it in Reverse. It may or may not move. I give it some gas, foot off brake. It starts to move backward up the hill but then seems to hesitate, then it catches, then it hesitates,... Hard to back up at a constant speed. It just isn't right in my mind.
I have an appointment with service tomorrow and I asked them to let me take the mechanic for a ride (instead of them taking me for a ride







.
Thanks for the reply.


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## a2lowvw (Dec 17, 2000)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *FMinMI* »_
On flat ground, 1500 RPM max AND the transmission disengages. If I let off the brake with gas pedal still pushed, car does not go forward for about 1 second, then it abruptly catches and takes off.


this is normal. the car is hoping you let off the gas before the clutch engages. the backing up seems messed up. if you have any questions after you talk to the dealer lmk.


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## Audi'sRevenge (Mar 24, 2008)

*Re: DSG slipping in reverse on a hill? (piston)*


_Quote, originally posted by *piston* »_I believe there is something in the ECU/DSG programming that causes the gears not to engage while you have the foot on the brake and asserting throttle.

Correct. You should never try to "brake torque" the DSG as if it were a torque-converter automatic. It's *not* an automatic and it doesn't have a torque converter preventing the engine from stalling. If you expect it to engage the #1 clutch while you are applying throttle and the brakes at the same time, imagine holding the brake, opening the throttle, and then letting out the clutch in a traditional manual car. What is going to happen? The car is going to stall, that's what's going to happen, lol.

_Quote, originally posted by *piston* »_I noticed this while downtown were we have steep inclines and while trying to parallel park, I try to move forward after getting in to the spot and when I release the brake, it takes a second for the gear to engage after being in reverse.
Also, if I try to throttle while I have my foot on the gas to move forward/uphill, the car does not seem to move even when I gently release the brake. The brake must be fully released for the car to move forward.

Now the DSG (that we are talking about here) is a wet clutch system so the clutch is partially engaged (slipping) when you are on the brake but it still can't engage fully with your foot on the brake or the car would stall. What you are experiencing when you release the brakes and expect the car to move forward is simply the same anti-stall measure still working before it engages the #1 clutch and then you start to move forward. On a flat road, because the clutch is slipping to some degree, you will move forward more readily; but on an incline that initial bit of clutch slip isn't enough to move it forward which is why you get the delay. This is normal behaviour.
What is not normal behaviour though, is continued harsh engagement, lurching, jerkyness, and "hunting" for the right amount of engagement to move the car forward (or backwards). These are all classic signs of Mechatronics issues, which is what you proabably have if you have the jerkyness as well.

_Quote, originally posted by *FMinMI* »_
Well, I can understand the feature with the brake on but what it is doing without the brake on is driving me crazy as I cannot keep a steady, slow backing-up (and sometimes forward) movement -- it jerks like someone who does not know how to use a manual transmission. And when I shift in D or R initially it seems to take a second or so for it to 'catch'. If I don't wait and give it some gas it catches 'violently' (overstated but not sure what is the best word to use) and will jerk forward, as if, on a GM car, you rev it up somewhat and move the gear select lever from N to D. I am worried that it will do this at the wrong time and I will back into the wall or the car in front of me. 

Yep same crap happens with my car. You have the DSJ option (Direct Shift Jerkbox) just like me, lol. That is not supposed to happen as mentioned above. There is a problem with your Mechatronics or your entire gearbox. These are the issues that people complain about here with the DSG and why there is now the warranty extension and service campaign to supposedly fix the issues.


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## FMinMI (Dec 25, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (a2lowvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *a2lowvw* »_
this is normal. the car is hoping you let off the gas before the clutch engages. the backing up seems messed up. if you have any questions after you talk to the dealer lmk. 

Well, they would not let me take it for a test drive with the mechanic and said they tried multiple times to reproduce the problem. They checked for codes, oil level, etc, but they found nothing wrong. Yet when I brought it home and backed up the driveway, there it was...
I am going to wait a few weeks and then call them up again.


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## a2lowvw (Dec 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (FMinMI)*

are they the only local dealer?


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## FMinMI (Dec 25, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (a2lowvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *a2lowvw* »_are they the only local dealer?

Yes, I would have to drive an hour to another one...
On thing I might do is if I go on a long trip (2+ hours away from home) and have some time to kill, I might stop by another VW dealer and tell him that I noticed it was getting worse and could he take a look at it, so it does not break down on my way back...


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## El Dobro (Nov 9, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (FMinMI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FMinMI* »_
Well, they would not let me take it for a test drive with the mechanic and said they tried multiple times to reproduce the problem. They checked for codes, oil level, etc, but they found nothing wrong. Yet when I brought it home and backed up the driveway, there it was...
I am going to wait a few weeks and then call them up again.


They wouldn't let you test drive your car with a tech? Sucky as they are, even my dealer let me take a test drive with a tech in the car.


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## VWRedux (Jun 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (FMinMI)*

Frank, post the full name of that crappy dealer along with the names of the service rep who refused to allow you to demonstrate the DSG problems you're having to the repair tech.... 
Never have I heard of this.... these guys suck a big one. Write a letter to him/her (cc a copy to VWoA) stating that because they refused to allow you to drive the car with their tech, which would have clearly demonstrated your DSG problem... you are still driving a defective VW, and as such if you, your family or any pedestrian were to be harmed by your car due to a DSG error, you will hold him/her directly responsible... that should send a stick of TNT right up his or her a**!

















_Modified by VWRedux at 3:08 PM 1-31-2010_


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## 10Ten (Sep 29, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (VWRedux)*

OP, your description of the symptom is nearly identical to the symptom that VW *eventually * reproduced in my DSG. they kept my car and replaced the mechatronics unit under warranty. when i say eventually, it took months of trying and multiple trips to the dealer before they actually reproduced the problem... or at least until they admitted they had reproduced it.
i also back out of an incline in the morning, and it is when the car is cold. with the new mechatronics unit it doesn't jerk or rev up/down wildly, but it still backs up the incline unusually slowly and requires a lot of throttle to move it. after the car warms up it doesn't have that issue. it's weird, but it's a computer-controlled tranny & clutch combo, so weirdness may be expected.
oh, did i mention it's my last computer controlled tranny?










_Modified by cheeebs at 1:25 PM 2-1-2010_


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## bazzle (Sep 17, 2008)

It is the same symptom VW USA and other countries are replacing the Mecatronics units. 
Jerking in reverse gear!
Ring VW USA help no.
Bazzle


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## FMinMI (Dec 25, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (El Dobro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *El Dobro* »_
They wouldn't let you test drive your car with a tech? Sucky as they are, even my dealer let me take a test drive with a tech in the car.

They had 3 things to do on the car and they said it was going to take a while, so they drove me home and picked me up (versus waiting 5 hours). When I got back, that is when I was told they looked at it but couldn't find anything. I am going to wait a few weeks, then schedule an appointment for just THAT problem.


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## FMinMI (Dec 25, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (VWRedux)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWRedux* »_Frank, post the full name of that crappy dealer along with the names of the service rep who refused to allow you to demonstrate the DSG problems you're having to the repair tech.... 
Never have I heard of this.... these guys suck a big one. Write a letter to him/her (cc a copy to VWoA) stating that because they refused to allow you to drive the car with their tech, which would have clearly demonstrated your DSG problem... you are still driving a defective VW, and as such if you, your family or any pedestrian were to be harmed by your car due to a DSG error, you will hold him/her directly responsible... that should send a stick of TNT right up his or her a**!
















_Modified by VWRedux at 3:08 PM 1-31-2010_

Well, they had 3 things to work on and they took me home instead of having me wait 5 hours. I am going to wait a few weeks, then schedule an appointment for just THAT problem. If they won't let me show them the problem, I will call the VOA customer service and ask for their assistance.


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## FMinMI (Dec 25, 2009)

*Re: (bazzle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bazzle* »_It is the same symptom VW USA and other countries are replacing the Mecatronics units. 
Jerking in reverse gear!
Ring VW USA help no.
Bazzle

I am going to wait a few weeks, then schedule an appointment for just THAT problem. If they still won't let me show them, or if they don't find the problem, VOA customer service will be my next call...
Thanks all!!!


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## 10Ten (Sep 29, 2007)

*Re: (FMinMI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FMinMI* »_
I am going to wait a few weeks, then schedule an appointment for just THAT problem. If they still won't let me show them, or if they don't find the problem, VOA customer service will be my next call...
Thanks all!!!

actually this is how it worked for me.
i had a few DSG behavior issues that were not common, nor easy to reproduce. that's how months of trying to get them to see & reproduce the problem came about. but in the end the common 'jerking in reverse' symptom was duplicated and they replaced the MU. months of complaining about all these weird symptoms, and i should have made it simple all along. live and learn...


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## FMinMI (Dec 25, 2009)

*Re: (cheeebs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cheeebs* »_
actually this is how it worked for me.
i had a few DSG behavior issues that were not common, nor easy to reproduce. that's how months of trying to get them to see & reproduce the problem came about. but in the end the common 'jerking in reverse' symptom was duplicated and they replaced the MU. months of complaining about all these weird symptoms, and i should have made it simple all along. live and learn...

Seems like the past few days I have not noticed the jerking when backing up. They did say something about 'resetting' it so maybe they did do something helpful. It is also getting warmer here. And I just might be getting use to it. Wait and see. 
Thanks for the reply. Have a nice weekend


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## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (FMinMI)*

I have this same issue with my DSG. It happens either in 1st or reverse on any slight incline/hill. Problem gets more severe as engine temps warm up. After driving 30 mins I even notice the lurching from a stop in 1st or reverse. 
Haven't had the time to take it to the dealer yet. However I did call them about it and suggested taking a tech for a drive and they agreed that would be a good idea and would probably help.
It's just frustrating...I know...been happening since 15k miles. I do have them document it on the paperwork every time I have it in for service, just in case I am out of warranty when they decide something is now wrong with it.


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## edwardnese (Sep 21, 2015)

Did you ever find out what the problem was? i'm having similar issues


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