# Serious Phaeton Crash



## OliverG (Jan 30, 2012)

Hi 

I would like to share with you details of my horrific crash on December 8th 2011 in my 2004 V10 Phaeton, so you can see first hand how strong and safe the vehicle is. My car hit a very large tree head on at dual carriageway speed in Leicestershire, UK during awful weather conditions. All the emergency services were staggered that I left the scene with just a broken femur bone. The fire brigade & paramedics were particularly surprised with regards to: 

1. How strong the car was, they were quite specific that had I been in most other vehicles I almost certainly would have had life threatening / fatal injuries. 
2. The way the car protected me going from dual carriageway speed to zero instantly without even cracking a rib, no internal injuries, and most importantly no spinal injuries whatsoever. They were amazed at the dual seat belt tensioners, seats, and the fact the dashboard, steering wheel and everything else hadn't moved a millimetre during the accident. 

I know most people here already realise the car is very safe and strong, but I didn't realise what it was capable of in a serious crash. 



















It goes without question that I am currently ordering my next Phaeton! 

Kind regards 

Oli


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Very glad to hear that you're (mostly) in one piece! I know the arguments about risk compensation, but it is nice to know that the car does a good job of protecting its occupants. 

Harry


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## Kenny G (Nov 8, 2010)

Wow that sounds bad, hope your leg is healing quickly. Wish we could still buy a new phaeton in the US. The cars are amazing! Take care, 

Ken


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

Thank you for posting your story and here's hoping for your speedy recovery. 

Do you care to comment on other particulars of the accident... was it a pool of water that took you off road, some other vehicle, what the speed was. 

Best wishes and best of luck with the replacement buying process,


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## OliverG (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks for the kind posts 

Itzmann according to the witness the road conditions were terrible and the car went over some sort of grease, the back wiggled and it hit the tree. The police kept the road shut until it was cleared as other cars slipped on the same patch. On my mind though is the fact various people in my office convinced me to replace the tyres with budget tyres claiming decent branded tyres just made a lot of profit margin and there is no difference between them. Although I can't be certain if this had any bearing... never again will I buy budget tyres and I would recommend you all to avoid them! 

I can't comment on speed for obvious reasons. The limit on that stretch is 70mph. 

I assume you can see the pictures? Wasn't sure if I uploaded them correctly! 

Cheers 

Oli


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I think that's a wise tyre decision. There's a huge difference in performance between a good tyre and a bad one, the most noticeable thing being braking performance in my experience. 

Crash protection was one of the deciding factors for me when I bought the car, it's nice to know you survived with relatively minor injuries!


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Oliver: 

WOW! Thanks for posting. We all have heard and believe how safe the Phaeton is but most of us have luckily never experienced an accident like yours to test our confidence. Your Phaeton sure past the test. 

I often believe I am rationalizing the decision to keep my Phaeton based on safety. Your experience shows that the safety performance of the Phaeton is real and more than a trumped-up reason to keep it. 

My first thought when I saw the damage was to be relieved that you had no passenger. Then I noted the steering wheel and recalled that you are on the other side of the pond. The outcome was even more amazing since it was your side that took the worst of the impact. 

Hope your recovery is going smoothly. 

Jim X


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## 53 0val (Feb 23, 2010)

Thank God you're ok Oliver! 

You're a 100% correct about your tires. The safest car in the word is only as safe as its tires and brakes. You never want to be cheap with those two components. 

I'm always surprised about questions about what are the "best" tires for the Phaeton.................VW spent a lot of time and money testing tires before they settled on Michelin, and you can bet their legal departments made sure they tested them completely (especially when it came to the V10 and W12 models). And you can also be sure Micheline tested them to assure VW that those tires exceeded even the Phaeton's limits before they made any agreement to supply those tires to VW. Its not "rocket science" at some point.  

Bob


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Wow!!! 

thank God indeed, not to mention Dr Piech! Guess you're on the lookout for another car 
Seriously though praise anyone or anything, you are one very lucky man:thumbup: 

Stu


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

It's sad to see such a fine car come to such an end. But, it carried out its final duty for you with all the quality and design perfection it was known for. I hate to be morbid, but you should be dead. That was a full speed frontal impact, and it went juuuust to the side of all the crash-supporting and absorbing elements like the bumper reinforcement and collapsing mounts, the frame rails, etc. And the passenger cell is still fully intact. Wow! 

I hope you're healing well, and checking used car lots for lonely Phaetons in need of drivers. 

Jason


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

I hope you are healing quickly and comfortably. It is really reassuring to see that the car is such a safe one. As someone observed before, I too was not aware that the impact was on the driver's side and your injury was only a broken bone. Albeit, the body's biggest bone and one of the most painful fractures; nest time aim for fingernails, scraped knuckles, or a toe stub.  

I am also sorry that a V10 was involved since so few of them were built and now we have even fewer of them left. It is a pity that these vehicles are not sold here in the US anymore. Your experience speaks volumes about how solidly built this car is. 

Let us know how you are coming along mending your femur and good luck with your new Phaeton purchase. 

cai


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## OliverG (Jan 30, 2012)

thanks guys 

totally agree on tyre view. 

I can't stress how strong the car was. I needed to be cut out of the vehicle due to the fact the emergency services believed I had some degree of neck/back injury from the forces involved and severity of the smash, they wanted to take me out the car on a stretcher as flat as possible. It took the fire brigade almost 2 hours to cut through the B pillar breaking 2 of their pneumatic cutting tools in the process.. again they kept saying they had never experienced anything like it and commenting on how I was so lucky to be driving such a strong vehicle! Being a Phaeton none of them had come across one before. Obviously when they got me to hospital they found there were no neck/back injuries at all. 

I've pinned down a nice silver 3.0 TDI with comfort seats to replace the car... sadly we don't get the awesome V10 in the UK any more due to emissions!


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

OliverG said:


> It goes without question that I am currently ordering my next Phaeton!


 New certainly works too.  I figured you might look for another V10 TDI. 

How did you end up breaking your femur? Was there intrusion into the footwell, or were you thrown forward into the dash? 

Jason


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## OliverG (Jan 30, 2012)

Hi Jason 

v tempted by a 2005 V10 but they are getting on now and you never know really how they have been looked after once you start hitting high milers. 

My femur was smashed pretty badly into 5 pieces, they think I hit the brake as it hit the tree and my femur came into contact with the steering wheel from beneath it. That shows you how hard the car hit the tree and the forces involved. If the dashboard or seat would have shifted as in most other vehicles in this level of crash and made contact, I would have ended up with smashed knees, pelvis, goodness knows what else. 

The seatbelts are also sensational, I was told most people in accidents at half the speed would definately have had cracked/broken ribs and other issues due to load on the belts... not in the Phaeton! I also don't know why other cars don't include dual pre-tensioners as standard as this clearly kept me firmly in the seat and probably contributed to protecting my spine from damage. I know the old s-class's used to have them. 

Oli


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

Glad you are ok Oliver. I thought the newer Phaetons did away with the dual pre-tensioners. Can anyone confirm this? 

Damon


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

dlouie said:


> Glad you are ok Oliver. I thought the newer Phaetons did away with the dual pre-tensioners. Can anyone confirm this?
> 
> Damon


 Quite correct Damon, form about 2008 I think.  

Stu


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## OliverG (Jan 30, 2012)

I am pretty sure the dual pre-tensioners still come with the 18-way seats, but would be grateful if someone could confirm


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

OliverG said:


> I am pretty sure the dual pre-tensioners still come with the 18-way seats, but would be grateful if someone could confirm


 Hi Oliver, 


Glad you are intact... 

As for seats and seat belts, the GP0 and GP1 (first face lift) had the double roll - double pretensioner setup, as of the GP2 (so late 2009) they have adopted a more standardised setup with a single roll and pre tensioner, with the clasp/catch floating rather than fixed. I believe the reasons were to make the seat cheaper to manufacture (supplier also changed at this point) and it also saved significant weight on the seat (I think it was in the region of 10-15kg per seat). 

The official reason was that the old seats had a tendency to squeak and or rattle, whereas this is not the case with the new arrangement (there is some truth here, but I suspect cost was the main driver) 

Not sure this will make the seats any less safe than the old ones, having both, I can see good and bad things with both... 

(as an aside, the massage function is not as strong on the newer seats) 

Regards, 

Johan


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

Realist42 said:


> Hi Oliver,
> 
> 
> Glad you are intact...
> ...


 ...just a thought, one for others to chime in on, I think that 'load limiting' pre-tensioners was the thing that was the saving grace here, the fact that there were two rolls with pre-tensioners is more an artefact of the design of the comfort seat... Or is that what made the difference? Just asking as the dual roll arrangement is not available any more, and I suspect we all like to know if the older cars are safer than the newer ones. 

Regards, 

Johan


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## OliverG (Jan 30, 2012)

thanks for clarifying that Stu, Damon & Johan, appreciate your help 

Out of interest I wonder if there are any other cost cutting areas that may (or may not) have any bearing on the safety of the vehicle through the different model years


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

I doubt anything structural will have been changed between model years as it would incur far too much cost. 

Harry


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## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

*Tires*

I agree with the tire comments. I purchased mine with crap Chinese rubber, and they fell apart and made a terrible rumbling. I went with the Yokohama Advan Sports and love them. Good tires are money well spent. Enjoy your new ride, us U.S. owners are envious of your diesels. 

Good luck with your rehab too; a Porsche fractured my femur for me, if I was in my Phaeton he would have surely lost that battle  I'm guessing you have a titanium rod and pins now. I'm sure they did a good job and you'll be running in no time!


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## OliverG (Jan 30, 2012)

Cheers Andrew 

you're right... a titanium rod and pins.. hope to be skiing by year end!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

tynee said:


> ...I went with the Yokohama Advan Sports and love them...


 Me too, +1 to the above comment. 

For those of us with the 'heavy' Phaetons (V10 and W12 engines), a good way to start looking for potentially suitable replacement tires is to see what is offered for the Bentley Continental GT and Continental Flying Spur, and then check to see if those tires conform to the size and load rating specifications published for the Phaeton. 

In North America, those two baby Bentleys are everywhere, and the various tire retailers (especially the online retailers) may not have tires for the W12 Phaeton listed in their lookup tables, but they will probably have tires for the two Bentleys in their lookup tables. 

Do be sure to check the OEM tire specs set out for the Phaeton you own carefully, these specs can be found both in the Owner Manual and on the tire sticker. The tire sticker is inside the gas filler flap on ROW Phaetons, and on the driver door B pillar on NAR Phaetons. 

Michael


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

A word to the wise; if you come to the USA bring x-rays of your leg. We have a very "aggressive", read paranoid, Transportation Security Administration (TSA) employees at the airports. They will make you take down your pants because they will not believe that you have a metal rod in you. You will undoubtedly experience a hard time passing through airport security if you trip the metal detectors. I am not too fond of some of these employees' manners, training, or knowledge. 

cai


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## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

You should be ok. I fly 3 weeks a month and have never set off the detectors, in the last 4 years; titanium is non-ferrous and does not set off detectors. However, you should carry a "medical implant" card, from your doctor just in case the new scanners show the rod. 

But yes, dont assume for a second our airport security is well trained and restrained. I have serious concerns about their abilities. It seems inconsistency is the norm.


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## 53 0val (Feb 23, 2010)

tynee said:


> You should be ok. I fly 3 weeks a month and have never set off the detectors, in the last 4 years; titanium is non-ferrous and does not set off detectors. However, you should carry a "medical implant" card, from your doctor just in case the new scanners show the rod.
> 
> But yes, dont assume for a second our airport security is well trained and restrained. I have serious concerns about their abilities. It seems inconsistency is the norm.


 He will probably "light-up" the scanners like a Christmas tree at LAX. My wife has three titanium teeth implants and they pull her out of line every time she flies out of there  (Alaska Airlines)


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## Francis007 (Aug 20, 2006)

tynee said:


> But yes, dont assume for a second our airport security is well trained and restrained. I have serious concerns about their abilities. It seems inconsistency is the norm.


 In October, at Logan Airport,Boston, my missus and I walked to the Security guy when instructed and when he saw we had British passports.....he threw his pen across the desk in a rage !  

Frank


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## Francis007 (Aug 20, 2006)

Oliver 

I forgot to add how glad I am that you are still in one piece after such a serious crash. It's good to know that the car did its' job. Your Phaeton passed it's test well eh ? 

I agree with all the comments here regarding tyres. Never ever skimp ! As Invisiblewave said, I think there is a huge difference in performance between a top tyre ( pirelli //michelin/dunlop/continental/yokohama etc) and a cheaper brand one . ......especially so for a car like a Phaeton with its 4 wheel drive system and considerable weight. 

After 22,000 miles ,The Factory at Dresden recently replaced all 4 tyres on my car . The original tyres on the car,when new , were Dunlop SP Sport MAXX GT's.....and they fitted the same tyre again. I thoroughly recommend them so when you feel fit and well enough to start looking 
for your new Phaeton, I think you will find that all the new and nearly new Phaetons that the 
UK Dealers have at the moment are fitted with Dunlops 

I hope you make a speedy recovery and please keep us informed on how you get on. 

Frank


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## OliverG (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks guys, I will take your comments on board when I fly to the States later in the year!! 

Frank I have just purchased my next Phaeton, a 3.0 TDI (I went for a 2007 MY with 18-way seats after the comments on this forum re model years and keen to have the dual pre-tensioners). It does indeed have dunlop tyres on it (obviously I was keen to check before purchase!). Funnily enough it is from Martins VW in Hampshire... I assume your local dealership? Do you know what are they like? 

Oliver


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## Francis007 (Aug 20, 2006)

OliverG said:


> Frank I have just purchased my next Phaeton, a 3.0 TDI (I went for a 2007 MY with 18-way seats after the comments on this forum re model years and keen to have the dual pre-tensioners). It does indeed have dunlop tyres on it (obviously I was keen to check before purchase!). Funnily enough it is from Martins VW in Hampshire... I assume your local dealership? Do you know what are they like?
> 
> Oliver


 Morning Oliver 

Never used Martins I'm afraid. They are at Basingstoke I think ?....is that correct ? My local Dealer is in Southampton but I wouldn't recommend them. I have had a few unhappy experiences with them regarding the two Phaetons I have owned as well as previous VW's. 

So, good luck with the new car. I hope you have many happy,comfortable....and safe miles in it !  Any idea when you are going to pick it up ? 

Frank


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## gymiller (Nov 30, 2010)

Wow. Glad you are ok! As stated before, another reason to keep my car as long as possible. 

Gene


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## OliverG (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks Frank, it is Basingstoke. Unfortunately going to get it delivered as still not driving


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## pscocoa (Jan 17, 2010)

I use Martins Camberley - they made a mess of my water pump recall when pulley came loose but moved heaven and earth to make up for error. They held their hands up to be fair. 

you have to watch who you speak to on service desk - make sure during discussion you have someone who knows what they are doing.


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## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

Given that Phaetons are uncommon, and specialised, I have agreed a single point of contact, Craig Crowfoot, with my dealer, Wolsey Ipswich. Additionally, we communicate by email unless impractical. 

It works really well. 

I also could not be happier with them as a dealer, but that is a separate point. 

PETER M


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## pscocoa (Jan 17, 2010)

I was trying to help with a question from a friend in another part of country who had taken his Passat to a dealer for the diesel injector recall and had just been told the cam followers had collapsed and the bill would be £1400 - so I phoned my dealer to check out if it was possible to drive a car in to garage and for cam follower problems to then be diagnosed. (Nonsense of course) 

The minute a particular person in service answered I knew the call was a waste of time with him - he even said he wasn't technically minded - he then tried to relay what I was saying to someone else and got the whole thing wrong - at the finish I firmly asked to speak to workshop and got the answer direct I was looking for. 

This is worrying that they are having front line people who do not have a clue about basic technical issues even to the extent to be ale to pass a message - all they want is to book you in. Poor training all round.


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## Appaz (Oct 30, 2009)

Wooh.... What was your speed if not a secret? 
Best wishes on getting well!


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

> Today 07:22 AMAppaz
> Wooh.... What was your speed if not a secret?
> Best wishes on getting well!


 Ed: 

See post #5 

Jim X


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Appaz said:


> Wooh.... What was your speed if not a secret?
> Best wishes on getting well!


 Probably bang on the speed limit


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

This is not what Oliver said. If you read his first mail, he exactly said "at dual carriageway speed." This, to me, is a precise enough description of the speed at which the accident occurred. 

P.


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## FootSore (Aug 22, 2006)

Is it wrong to ask if the cupholder survived intact. I have a broken one. 

Glad you are OK - What a car. 

Dave


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## OliverG (Jan 30, 2012)

Sorry Dave the car has now been sold on by the insurance company... obviously before it went I sent a friend over to pick up the all important Phaeton silver torch from the car, so now I have 2  

Just to say thanks for all the kind messages and PM's people have sent.. I always knew Phaeton owners were a decent bunch... just never came across any other owners until now!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I see the French are just about as attuned to British irony as Americans are......


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

cai said:


> ...They will make you take down your pants because they will not believe that you have a metal rod in you.


 Hi Cai: 

The TSA has now changed their policy. In situations such as you describe, they no longer require that you strip naked at the inspection point. They simply ask you to lie down on the belt feeding the hand baggage X ray machine, and then run your body through that, not unlike a CAT scan. 

Michael


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

PanEuropean said:


> Hi Cai:
> 
> The TSA has now changed their policy. In situations such as you describe, they no longer require that you strip naked at the inspection point. They simply ask you to lie down on the belt feeding the hand baggage X ray machine, and then run your body through that, not unlike a CAT scan.
> 
> Michael


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## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

Are you rebuilding or....
Sorry Oliver, my bad taste, but you will miss the raw strength of the V10. I find that a V6 with booster is better than without. Not that I'm recommending it of course...but...it's the only alternative to a W12. 
I recently saw a low mile 2010 W12 with a Poole dealership at below 40% of list. Me, I was tempted, but the (boosted) V6 kept me onside, just.


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## OliverG (Jan 30, 2012)

Hi
Yes you are right the raw strength of the V10 is certainly missing from the V6! However the gearbox is silky smooth and overall the engine is very quiet compared to the V10 (although I did like that growl!)
I was seriously tempted with one of the W12's, they are phenomenal value in the UK and come with absolutely everything. However the thought of potential repair bills, especially for minor things around the engine when it needs to come out kept me towards the V6.. oh and the fact that I really don't want to be getting too friendly with any more trees!

Oliver


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