# Info: Delete N249, Keep N112



## McBee (Aug 11, 2006)

FYI for anyone who wants to completely delete their N249, but keep the N112 valve. This is how I rerouted the hoses. Couldn't find any pics of this, so I figured I would post it up for those that need it.








Doing this gets rid of various hoses that are potential for vac leaks and headaches:


----------



## Sketchykid (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: Info: Delete N249, Keep N112 (McBee)*

I forget, which valve controls what again?


----------



## McBee (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: Info: Delete N249, Keep N112 (Sketchykid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sketchykid* »_I forget, which valve controls what again?

N112 = SCV/SAI
N249 = DV Controller
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## warmstew (Apr 19, 2009)

*Re: Info: Delete N249, Keep N112 (McBee)*

Remove both, get a block off plate or a freeze plug. less headache.


----------



## ypsetihw (Nov 20, 2008)

sick mcbee, now I'll finally get around to this, instead of leaving it in there capped off. Thanks! Did you leave the n249 plugged into the harness so it doesn't throw a code?


_Modified by ypsetihw at 8:21 PM 2-25-2010_


----------



## McBee (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: Info: Delete N249, Keep N112 (warmstew)*


_Quote, originally posted by *warmstew* »_Remove both, get a block off plate or a freeze plug. less headache.

Emissions are required in IL, so removing the SAI system is not doable for me right now.
Advantages of keeping the N112 is also for adaptation purposes.


_Modified by McBee at 7:37 PM 2-25-2010_


----------



## McBee (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: (ypsetihw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ypsetihw* »_sick mcbee, now I'll finally get around to this, instead of leaving it in there capped off. Thanks! Did you leave the n249 plugged into the harness so it doesn't throw a code?

_Modified by ypsetihw at 4:21 PM 2-25-2010_

Yeah, I just took the N249 valve all by itself, zip-tied it to the metal plate and plugged it back in until the resistors come in. You will get a CEL if you don't plug it back in and don't resistor.
EDIT: You can also re-used that rubber holder (lower-right of that last picture) instead of zip-ties to hold it back on...I would of done this, but I got a little crazy with the Dremel.


_Modified by McBee at 5:28 PM 2-25-2010_


----------



## ypsetihw (Nov 20, 2008)

So one hose from the IM through the check valve to the n112, then stock line back to the hardline?


----------



## McBee (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: (ypsetihw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ypsetihw* »_So one hose from the IM through the check valve to the n112, then stock line back to the hardline?

Yep http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ypsetihw (Nov 20, 2008)

post a pic of your whip mcbee, maybe a shot of your engine bay, what else have you done so far?


----------



## ypsetihw (Nov 20, 2008)

have you considered ditching the bracket and ziptying that stuff up under the IM?


----------



## Ld7w_VR (Apr 21, 2006)

*Re: (McBee)*


_Quote, originally posted by *McBee* »_
Yeah, I just took the N249 valve all by itself, zip-tied it to the metal plate and plugged it back in until the resistors come in. You will get a CEL if you don't plug it back in and don't resistor.


What resistor do you need to do this? Good way to simplify that mess.


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (VR6VDub172)*

Ditch OEM vac lines, keep the n249 plugged in and hidden, run a single vac line from the DV to the IM


----------



## McBee (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ypsetihw* »_post a pic of your whip mcbee, maybe a shot of your engine bay, what else have you done so far?


Well, not much is done to the motor as I'm still under warranty, so just some small aesthetics. Other than that a DG SS and a stg. 1 flash. Here is the car though:









_Quote, originally posted by *ypsetihw* »_have you considered ditching the bracket and ziptying that stuff up under the IM?


Yeah, I've thought about it, but haven't been bored enough to do it yet.

_Quote, originally posted by *VR6VDub172* »_
What resistor do you need to do this? Good way to simplify that mess.


10w 330ohm http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
EDIT: I have come to find out that 1/2W resistors work just fine and are somewhat smaller.


_Modified by McBee at 9:16 AM 3-1-2010_


----------



## Ld7w_VR (Apr 21, 2006)

*Re: (McBee)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_Ditch OEM vac lines, keep the n249 plugged in and hidden, run a single vac line from the DV to the IM

So basically bypass all that stuff by running a single vac line to the DV? Wouldn't thast still leave you with a CEL. Maybe im not understanding what you are trying to say.

_Quote, originally posted by *McBee* »_
10w 330ohm http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Thanks







O and the car looks good!


----------



## McBee (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: (VR6VDub172)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6VDub172* »_
So basically bypass all that stuff by running a single vac line to the DV? Wouldn't thast still leave you with a CEL. Maybe im not understanding what you are trying to say.
Thanks







O and the car looks good!

Yep, one line - DV to IM. Then you can cap off the stock DV line and the vacuum reservoir line. Then if you feel like it, you can go one step further and reroute the hoses like above.


----------



## Ld7w_VR (Apr 21, 2006)

*Re: (McBee)*


_Quote, originally posted by *McBee* »_
Yep, one line - DV to IM. Then you can cap off the stock DV line and the vacuum reservoir line. Then if you feel like it, you can go one step further and reroute the hoses like above.

Cool. Thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Lasrsktr (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: (ypsetihw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ypsetihw* »_have you considered ditching the bracket and ziptying that stuff up under the IM?

That is a good idea if you don't want to run any engine covers. 
The bracket is used to hold the lower engine cover on.. 
I did the same as you in terms of the N112 and N249 setup.. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
~Steven


----------



## Dropped 20v (Aug 23, 2008)

*Re: (Lasrsktr)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bgweed (Jan 18, 2010)

l88m22vette said:


> Ditch OEM vac lines, keep the n249 plugged in and hidden, run a single vac line from the DV to the IM


L88 - i followed your thread when I did my N249 delete - did you do what mcbee did as well? 
I saw what ypsetihw said 


ypsetihw said:


> So one hose from the IM through the check valve to the n112, then stock line back to the hardline?


but I deleted my hard lines... where would that big hose go to if i deleted my hard lines?
Is all the crap in the second pic under the intake manifold at the moment?


----------



## sounrealx (Apr 4, 2007)

here's a better picture










http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/265883.aspx


----------



## bgweed (Jan 18, 2010)

Good pictures in your thread, but it's not the same as my 225 setup. 

I'd still like to know about those deleted lines from the second picture... I believe that runs up under the intake manifold, but before i go rip it all out I want to know what the layout is and where each end of hose goes. It looks like there are several hose ends that go to other devices. I can't see too well under the intake manifold, so maybe it's a job best done if / when i install a phenolic spacer.


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Clean engine whore pic for reference:


----------



## bgweed (Jan 18, 2010)

Man that looks clean. Props to you for cleaning it up that much. 
http://onpointengineering.com/cars/auditt/afterN249.jpg
That was mine as i was putting it back together after replacing the valve cover gaskets, half moon, flat seal, etc; also deleted the N249 (solenoid still attached but out of the way - have the resistors but didnt have time to solder them up that day). 
I have a few questions on yours and things i want to do. I hope you dont mind me stealing your styling cues. 


Looks like we both had the same idea on the fuel rail. That stainless was way too pretty to cover with ugly plastic. 
Did removing the rear bracket on the charge pipe (closest to the firewall) cause you any vibration / excess movement of the charge pipe? If I delete that bracket, I could ditch the heat shield fabric on it as well. 
Did you twist your throttle body 90deg? Was this just to hide the MAP vacuum line, or was there another reason?
Your catch can improves your setup a lot. Been looking for a reasonable solution (both price and quality) for this for a couple weeks. Did you delete your PCV valve altogether?
Looks like you're running with no thin cover in front of the intake manifold - did you delete the N112 or just relocate / remove the bracket? Did you delete all the crap that McBee took out in the second pic? I REALLY want to know about removing all that. 
Did you see an improvement with the TIP? Looks much easier to keep clean, in any case.


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

> Man that looks clean. Props to you for cleaning it up that much.
> http://onpointengineering.com/cars/auditt/afterN249.jpg
> That was mine as i was putting it back together after replacing the valve cover gaskets, half moon, flat seal, etc; also deleted the N249 (solenoid still attached but out of the way - have the resistors but didnt have time to solder them up that day).
> I have a few questions on yours and things i want to do. I hope you dont mind me stealing your styling cues.
> ...


:thumbup:


----------



## GTI 20th AE #1421 (Dec 7, 2006)

McBee said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *VR6VDub172* »_
> So basically bypass all that stuff by running a single vac line to the DV? Wouldn't thast still leave you with a CEL. Maybe im not understanding what you are trying to say.
> Thanks
> 
> ...


McBee, a little off topic here, but i might be moving back to Chicago. I have a 1.8t with catless exhaust. will i be able to pass emissions out there as is? i have no CEL. More on your topic, you said you were doing this and if this delete will make you not pass IL Emissions why do it? also are there "places" where you can pass smog out there for a bit more $$???


----------



## McBee (Aug 11, 2006)

GTI 20th AE #1421 said:


> McBee, a little off topic here, but i might be moving back to Chicago. I have a 1.8t with catless exhaust. will i be able to pass emissions out there as is? i have no CEL. More on your topic, you said you were doing this and if this delete will make you not pass IL Emissions why do it? also are there "places" where you can pass smog out there for a bit more $$???


 CAT-less isn't an issue with an O2 spacer.

You can still pass emissions as long as you keep the N249 plugged in or resistor'd off. 

As far as places that will look the other way, none that I know of - not even sure if it's that easy to do now days. I got fed up with the whole emissions deal and currently have my car registered out of state.


----------



## GTI 20th AE #1421 (Dec 7, 2006)

McBee said:


> CAT-less isn't an issue with an O2 spacer.
> 
> You can still pass emissions as long as you keep the N249 plugged in or resistor'd off.
> 
> As far as places that will look the other way, none that I know of - not even sure if it's that easy to do now days. I got fed up with the whole emissions deal and currently have my car registered out of state.


NICE to know. the N249 controls the DV, right so why would you even mess with that to begin with? i guess im just not understanding the concept of doing an SAI delete, evap delete and N249 delete ETC. yeah my 20th is catless and i was worried about moving there and being screwed. but i do have a spacer on the post-cat 02 sensor, no CEL. just worried they'd do a sniffer in the tail pipe.
also whereabouts in Chicago are you located?


----------



## McBee (Aug 11, 2006)

GTI 20th AE #1421 said:


> NICE to know. the N249 controls the DV, right so why would you even mess with that to begin with? i guess im just not understanding the concept of doing an SAI delete, evap delete and N249 delete ETC. yeah my 20th is catless and i was worried about moving there and being screwed. but i do have a spacer on the post-cat 02 sensor, no CEL. just worried they'd do a sniffer in the tail pipe.
> also whereabouts in Chicago are you located?


 I mostly did it to simplify it and clean up the mess of hoses under the IM. Most people delete this stuff to either A) shave/clean up their bay or B) simplify and/or make it easier to work in the bay.

If you have a spacer and no CEL, you are most likely good on your CAT-less setup. Might want to check the readiness with VAGcom to be sure though.

I am currently in the NW outskirts of Chicago.


----------



## GTI3309 (Apr 11, 2006)

Any of you guys with the n249 delete getting any cel for incorret flow? I Just did mine and the car is throwing a cel for incorrect flow even with the n112 and the n249 plugged in  any help would be appreciated


----------



## McBee (Aug 11, 2006)

GTI3309 said:


> Any of you guys with the n249 delete getting any cel for incorret flow? I Just did mine and the car is throwing a cel for incorrect flow even with the n112 and the n249 plugged in  any help would be appreciated


 You still have your N112 hooked up like the first picture in this thread, correct? If so, you either have the check-valve backwards or your lines are not hooked up properly. The incorrect flow is specifically related to the SAI (N112) system.


----------



## sounrealx (Apr 4, 2007)

GTI 20th AE #1421 said:


> NICE to know. the N249 controls the DV, right so why would you even mess with that to begin with? i guess im just not understanding the concept of doing an SAI delete, evap delete and N249 delete ETC. yeah my 20th is catless and i was worried about moving there and being screwed. but i do have a spacer on the post-cat 02 sensor, no CEL. just worried they'd do a sniffer in the tail pipe.
> also whereabouts in Chicago are you located?


the n249 controls vac to the dv.. therefore there's a delay in response when the ecu decides whether or not it should be open. If you hook the dv to the intake mani and have it run off of true vacuum, then its a lot more responsive and you eliminate about 10 vac lines that could potentially leak. The sai is expensive to replace if it goes bad, and can leak making your car run rich. Sometimes it's easier to just remove it all and be done with it. 

The idea of deleting all of that stuff is to clean up the bay and remove mostly unnecessary redundancies that VW built into the engine.


----------



## White Jetta (Mar 17, 2002)

McBee, great info and thread. What did you do with the vacuum reservoir on the valve cover? I read elsewhere that the N112 draws from that and will throw a code if it's not through there? I've got the 42DD manifold coming in shortly and plan on running one line to the DV, FPR, N112, boost gauge, and just run one line from the IM to the brake booster.


----------



## McBee (Aug 11, 2006)

White Jetta said:


> McBee, great info and thread. What did you do with the vacuum reservoir on the valve cover? I read elsewhere that the N112 draws from that and will throw a code if it's not through there? I've got the 42DD manifold coming in shortly and plan on running one line to the DV, FPR, N112, boost gauge, and just run one line from the IM to the brake booster.


 The reservoir works in conjunction with the N249. So if you remove the N249, you would remove the reservoir. I'm pretty sure the N112 works on its' own, so there is no need for the reservoir at that point.


----------



## GTI3309 (Apr 11, 2006)

McBee said:


> You still have your N112 hooked up like the first picture in this thread, correct? If so, you either have the check-valve backwards or your lines are not hooked up properly. The incorrect flow is specifically related to the SAI (N112) system.


Yes. it looks just like the first picture. but now that you mentioned I'll better double check the direction of the check valve.

thanks :thumbup:


----------



## mj23wizards (Nov 29, 2006)

Now i realised how much oil i had under the intake manifold!!! :laugh: 
No more leaks with N249 delete!

Just don't know why i got still this error "N249 mechanical malfunction". I had that also before with his brother "Pressure drop between Turbo and throttle valve". I can't believe that it's because i don't use the Forge 007 DV.:sly:


----------



## ~Enigma~ (Jul 8, 2009)

mj23wizards said:


> Now i realised how much oil i had under the intake manifold!!! :laugh:
> No more leaks with N249 delete!
> 
> Just don't know why i got still this error "N249 mechanical malfunction". I had that also before with his brother "Pressure drop between Turbo and throttle valve". I can't believe that it's because i don't use the Forge 007 DV.:sly:


Bump for same issue. Imma be doing my 249 delete Wednsday to (hopefuly) get rid of my cel for "n249 mechanical malfunction" and to get proprer vac/boost pressure back (along with making it easy to findleaks and work on).


----------



## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

So an 1/2W 330ohm resister will work?


----------



## McBee (Aug 11, 2006)

ornithology said:


> So an 1/2W 330ohm resister will work?


 Correct.

:beer:


----------



## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

McBee said:


> Correct.
> 
> :beer:


Thanks my friend. Now to discard the N249 I just so recently purchased off you lol


----------



## snoman12 (Apr 18, 2011)

*Need help:/*

Hey guys I just did this bypass over the weekend and I left the n249 plugged in but capped off and I am getting a CEL. I routed the lines the right way and used the existing hard line that goes to the DV. I ran the vacuum source from where it was originally into a tee and then I have one end going to the hard line to the DV and the other side of the tee to the check valve before the n112. Just curious why I would be getting a CEL still. I did have one problem when I was cutting the hose clamp off the one outlet of the n112 it broke but I used my plastic welder to fix it back to normal. Is there anyway to check the n112 valve to see if it is functioning properly? Thanks for your help.

Snoman

Edit: Fixed-the CEL ended up being my AIT sensor being unplugged that was giving the light. After scanning with VAG-com quickly realized my stupidity... that's what I get for messing around with more than one thing at a time under the hood I guess haha.


----------



## snoman12 (Apr 18, 2011)

*Diverter Valve Sound*

One other thing after accelerating hard inbetween gear changes the DV doesn't have the same sound as it did before I bypassed the n249 valve, is this something others have noticed as well? The sound is more short and chirpy rather than the usual whoosh that it did prior. Once again thanks for anyone's input.

Snoman


----------



## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

snoman12 said:


> One other thing after accelerating hard inbetween gear changes the DV doesn't have the same sound as it did before I bypassed the n249 valve, is this something others have noticed as well? The sound is more short and chirpy rather than the usual whoosh that it did prior. Once again thanks for anyone's input.
> 
> Snoman


 Noticed the same with mine, sound is different. 

How did people hook up the DV vacuum hose now? I put a "T" at the nipple where the hose normally came off. Seems to work on now. First thing in the morning though the valve seems to be weak, on the first open/close on 1-2. 
Should I run it off another "T" off the FPR where I have my boost gauge tapped?
Does anyone have a vacuum resivor still after this? I removed the one on the valve cover.:thumbup:


----------

