# MK4 Big Brake Upgrade question



## BH17DNB (Feb 21, 2011)

Hi,

I recently bought a set of 18zr cayene 6 pot calipers.
I'll be putting these on my mk4 golf gti with 334 r32 discs, using these german Epytec calipers carriers ( http://www.epytec.de/modelle/vw/gol...ttel-audi-tt-a3-vw-golf-4-polo-9n-bora?c=1679 ) and Epytec brake lines ( http://www.epytec.de/kategorien/bre...-a1-porsche-brembo-ttrs-polo-9n-bremsen-umbau )
Now before bolting all of these up, my only concern is if i'll have s spongy pedal.
ECS sells pretty much the same thing as BBK, just with bigger discs. I've read all of their instructions and manuals and it doesn't say anything about having a nasty brake pedal or anything.
Should I be worried about this or not?
Thanks!


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## 87vr6 (Jan 17, 2002)

You likely will.. more (and bigger) pistons in the calipers means more fluid needed to actuate them... To move more fluid, you need more master cylinder travel... To get that.. spongy pedal. All those kits look cool and all.. on show cars. 

Good pads, lines, and discs, and the factory systems are more than adequate for anything short of heavy track use, particularly the MK4 R32 system (stops quicker than 90% of supercars)

If you still insist on doing something "more" with your brakes, get a tuned system, like a wilwood or brembo kit.


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

The factory ABS handles four pot calipers up front and OE in the rear just fine. 

The Porsche six pots haven't had much feedback after install. I'd lean toward saying you'd have a spongy feel too.

The Mk IV OE m/c on the ABS is 23.81mm. You'll likely have to upgrade your m/c to 25.4 (p/n 441 611 021a) mm to push the volume of fluid you need you need. 

Hhmm ... seems as though the mk IV mounts its m/c at an angle vs. the Mk II/III & 90 era Audi 25.4 mm m/c are horizontal. See red arrow below on the booster.










The m/c from a Volvo 00-02 S80 2.9 (10739 8602366) seems to be the fit to get a 25mm m/c in the car for feeding the 6 pot calipers up front. This is all uncharted territory. Let us know how things go.










If by chance the lines in the your Mk IV m/c are M10 vs. the Volvo's M12 fittings, adaptors are made to fix that or bend new lines to fit with a metric flare tool and bender. This bloke had to use them when he added park assist to his Mk V from the Mk VI cars. (http://www.r32oc.com/topic/106481-retrofit-mk5-park-assist/)










Below is the arrangement of the Volvo S80 brake pipes.


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## BH17DNB (Feb 21, 2011)

petethepug said:


> The Mk IV OE m/c on the ABS is 23.81mm. You'll likely have to upgrade your m/c to 25.4 (p/n 441 611 021a) mm to push the volume of fluid you need you need.


I found the 25.4mm m/c, but can i keep my ABS with this one? (sorry if the question is too n00bish)
Thanks again!


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

*<strike> The Mk IV OE m/c on the ABS is 23.81mm. You'll likely have to upgrade your m/c to 25.4 (p/n 441 611 021a) mm to push the volume of fluid you need you need. </strike> *


HA! No one gutted me on this m/c upgrade yet. I completely misread the blog on adding 4 piston willwood calipers at all four corners of a Corrado. Using the stock Teves I system with a 20.64 m/c the ( 8 pot total) brake set up was quoted as:

"Initial reaction was beyond positive. Multiple compliments on the road, internet recognition; my brakes' reputation preceded me at get-togethers and cruises. On multiple occasions, I would (stupidly) tail-gate cars and brake at the last possible moment, only to end up 3-4 car lengths back. Simply put, the kit was phenomenal." Two brake lines blew and convinced him to upgrade to a TEVES 20 (Mk IV/B4) ABS set up. It has a 23.81 m/c. It's common for the Mk II, III & IV cars to lose brake lines to corrosion in the snow belt now. The Corrado in this feature was driven from coast to coast.

If you run 6 pot calipers up front on both sides you already have more than enough on your Teves 20 to feed them. Just do it, should be fine. 

I'll leave the previous post up just in case anyone needs a 25mm m/c to take a Mk IV to non ABS status.


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## BH17DNB (Feb 21, 2011)

Meanwhile i've been doing some reading into the subject and i found out that the T4 transporter has a 25.4mm m/c with ABS. Part number is: 7D0-611-019/B.
I've heard it's not a bolt-on upgrade. Now i'm trying to find out what exactly has to be modified.
I'll get back when i have some new info.
Doesn't the mk4 golf have a 22mm m/c?


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

I got the info on that 23.81mm m/c in the ABS from here ....

http://corradors.blogspot.com/2013/04/corrado-rs-braking-back-to-stock.html


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## BH17DNB (Feb 21, 2011)

anyways, first I'll install the whole system without the bigger M/C.
If it's a 23.8mm M/C i shouldn\t have to upgrade, I'll see after I install all the stuff.
I hope someone else with a big brake upgrade chimes in, this can't be something that new


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

There's a few that have done it but never any documentation after the install, just pics and that's it. 

Subscribed ...


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## BH17DNB (Feb 21, 2011)

Ok, so i got them fitted yesterday.
I used the following:
- caliper carripers from Epytec for the cayenne zr18 caliper for mk4 : http://www.epytec.de/modelle/vw/gol...ttel-audi-tt-a3-vw-golf-4-polo-9n-bora?c=1250
- braided brake hoses from Epytec for porsche calipers: http://www.epytec.de/kategorien/bre...sche-brembo-ttrs-polo-9n-bremsen-umbau?c=1730
- regular ATE brake pads
- EBC R32 Brake discs
- Porsche Cayenne ZR18 calipers

I ended up having to put my 20mm spacers from the back wheels to the front, because the 10mm ones didn't clear the caliper.
The epytec hardware is really good quality stuff, comes with all necesary german TUV paperwork to be able get the brakes "registered".
I drove a total of 10 miles, and as a first impression, the pedal is kind of spongy and goes down pretty low.
I will definitely look into upgrading to a 25.4mm M/C.

I will let you guys know more after the brakes get seated in properly and do a really good brake bleeding to a better brake fluid.

Here are some pics from the install:


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

Nice! No time wasted. I'd be nice if you only had some air in the lines instead of fluid volume issues.


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## BH17DNB (Feb 21, 2011)

Thanks!
I hope so too, I've been doing some reading and talked to some people who fitted these brakes to an mk4 and they all claim good pedal feel and sharp braking.
We'll see. I'll rebleed them this weekend and post some updates.


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## Malkierie504 (Oct 6, 2007)

Updates? I found a set of 17z's in a parts yard near me but I'm already in the process of doing the Porsche boxster front/ 280mm w/W8 rear caliper upgrade. I've noted the T4 stuff in my own research but it looks like the difference in bolt patterns between the T4 & mk4 m/c's prevents me from going that route without using the T4 booster as well.


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## Malkierie504 (Oct 6, 2007)

*a possible answer*

Ok so with a lot of digging and picture comparison I think I've found the answer in p/n:7D0611019B. should bolt up to the 99-01 mk4 brake booster


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## GolfCL Smooth (Jul 9, 2006)

Please follow-up again post install if you go this route!


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## Malkierie504 (Oct 6, 2007)

GolfCL Smooth said:


> Please follow-up again post install if you go this route!


will do waiting on pay cycle then gonna grab it off of ebay. if this works it should open the door to using 17z's up front w/ c5 a6 allroad calipers in the back (43mm vs 38mm).


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## A216VCTi (Mar 11, 2002)

It's a shame this was never updated.


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## Malkierie504 (Oct 6, 2007)

I haven't forgotten or given up. things have been hell for me so I haven't had the free finances.


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## A216VCTi (Mar 11, 2002)

****ty to hear man, hope things work out for you.


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## lagunasecablue (Dec 24, 2004)

Thx for all the pn and details. I’ve got my mk4 r32 w oem fronts and rears. Upgraded the lines, ebc front rotors w green stuff pads. Pedal very responsive! However I’d like to fill these oem 18’s w some fat brakes!! lol. The rears are tiny! So cute!! 
So I’m beginning my research and attempting to piece together a nice set for all four corners. Are all brembo 17z same? Will my 334x32 ebc rotors work? If I’ve gotta buy rotors too then why not go balls deep and go 18z up front!?! Will these fit in my oem aristos?? 17z 4pot 6? 18z 6pot? 8? 
Will an 06 tourage w 17z work w adapters? Then which ones go in back? Ugh. Plz some make a parts list for this thread!! That would be very helpful for us seeking to fill our wheels w some big ass Porsche or wilwoods!?! 

Pics for reference.


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## A216VCTi (Mar 11, 2002)

You’re going to need spacers to run the 18z calipers. I think the same is true for the 17z. 


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## Pete O. Arguelles (Jul 5, 2000)

I have a set of ECStuning stg v brakes on my 337 with no adapters. They look great. I'll try to post pic.

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## Pete O. Arguelles (Jul 5, 2000)

Here's some pics.









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## Pete O. Arguelles (Jul 5, 2000)

I don't see these on the ECStuning website for MKIV's tho why?

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## Pete O. Arguelles (Jul 5, 2000)

Brake pedal feel is same but way more brake force. U will find yourself getting used to pedal all over again. U will not have to push as hard on pedal.

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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-parts/ecs-stage-v-141-big-brake-kit-no-pads/r32tts5bbk-blxnp/

For some reason that kit isn’t referenced to any cars yet. Damn nice set up.


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## Pete O. Arguelles (Jul 5, 2000)

I called ECStuning for a set to fit my 20th anniversary and the sales guy said they didn't have them for my application. Don't get it they have a set for the MKIV's R32 and I have the R32 set up on the car now wanted to upgrade.


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## 1988gti (Nov 16, 2005)

*Rear Dual Caliper Setup*

I have 17z 6-pod front calipers paired with Cayenne 4-pod rear calipers and I have a slight soft pedal. However, once the calipers grip onto the rotor, car stops much faster than OEM. 

Get your rear dual caliper adapters from rizpizdesigns.com

It's a startup company with extensive engineering and manufacturing background. There is currently a group buy going on that ends December 2018. Check out their IG page at RizPizDesigns

Good Luck!


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## EmperorV (Sep 26, 2014)

I just did the upgrade from the 986 boxster to the 17z calipers and my pedal is low an soft but, I have a leaking crossover pipe on the driver side thanks to an unknown coworker dropping the caliper an kinking the crossover line an messing up the paint so I have to do that one over again, so I'm hoping that's the reason, but I think I still will need to do the M/C









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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

If you're looking to upgrade your front brakes for one heck of a good price imho, check out http://rotorlab.com/full-brake-kits

They offer both 17z and 18z front brake kits.


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## EmperorV (Sep 26, 2014)

Here's the heads up on the M/C. Dealer wants $600+ for the special order, ECS wants $300+ and found on eBay for $125. I had ordered a reman M/C from Advanced to compare an only had for a couple minutes and visually, it looks like it's a go. Aside from the slant and the 2 extra 2 brake line holes and the smaller size of the brake line hose M10 x 1 it looks like it'll bolt right up an the res holes look the same. I need to find out the thread pitch and size of the MK4 M/C or rather the ABS an get the brake lines, two plugs and a res. I don't have a garage an my job is getting stiff about employees working on their own cars so I have to wait until it gets warmer to install this unless people know somewhere to rent a garage in Passaic NJ I gotta wait for warmer weather









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## EmperorV (Sep 26, 2014)

A small heads up. I've been driving around with these brakes an weird pedal for about a month now. The weather was reasonable an work was slow today so I decided to bleed the brakes again but, the two person way this time and I ALMOST have my old pedal back. I will bleed again on Sunday cuz I just did it on a whim and just a couple times on one side of the caliper. If it stays the same that's even fine, it's still a good pedal but I know some people still not settle, I do think the bigger M/C would be the final step to get that perfect pedal, but we'll find out sunday weather permitting. If I can improve it just a lil bit more without the bigger M/C, this will easily be the best and cheapest BBK period. Even with the pedal play b4 it did stop best IMO, an now that the pedal is actually good it is a definite upgrade

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## Diede (Aug 1, 2014)

I had problems when I did the front calipers upgrade (17z 6 spot). After bleeding twice with a bleeder tool, and using VCDS to bleed ABS pump, the problem was solved, and I feel the brake pedal exactly as it was with the oem calipers.
I think that the problem about the old style "two person way bleed" is that if there is air inside the ABS pump, it will probably stay there.


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## EmperorV (Sep 26, 2014)

Diede said:


> I had problems when I did the front calipers upgrade (17z 6 spot). After bleeding twice with a bleeder tool, and using VCDS to bleed ABS pump, the problem was solved, and I feel the brake pedal exactly as it was with the oem calipers.
> I think that the problem about the old style "two person way bleed" is that if there is air inside the ABS pump, it will probably stay there.


Cool, I will do that next. I really think it's just air in the system an you gotta bleed the $#!+ out of it, as it stands now I don't notice it an will pass inspection without a doubt but yes, 100% is better than 90% an that's what everybody here wants, that 100% Did u use the regular VCDS, I've been meaning to purchase one yet haven't gotten around to is, seems like a must

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## Diede (Aug 1, 2014)

I have a china's version of VCDS 12.10 (Sorry Rosstech, I will bought a legal version). It does not have the ABS Bleed function.
I borrowed the 16.x version of a friend of mine to do this.
PS: You also need two person to do the ABS bleed via VCDS. It will activate the pump many times, and will ask you to depress thebrake pedal with caliper screw opened, one more time depress the pedal with pump working and, and so depress the pedal while pump working and open the bleed screw while pressing the pedal (the order is not this, but the process is something like this)


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## EmperorV (Sep 26, 2014)

Diede said:


> I have a china's version of VCDS 12.10 (Sorry Rosstech, I will bought a legal version). It does not have the ABS Bleed function.
> I borrowed the 16.x version of a friend of mine to do this.
> PS: You also need two person to do the ABS bleed via VCDS. It will activate the pump many times, and will ask you to depress thebrake pedal with caliper screw opened, one more time depress the pedal with pump working and, and so depress the pedal while pump working and open the bleed screw while pressing the pedal (the order is not this, but the process is something like this)


Ok I'll get on it, I'll probably pic one up today or definetly this week, is there like a training source to learn how to use it? I know it's just not plug and play

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## Diede (Aug 1, 2014)

EmperorV said:


> Ok I'll get on it, I'll probably pic one up today or definetly this week, is there like a training source to learn how to use it? I know it's just not plug and play
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



First of all, you will need to install the cable driver and software.
The software usage is very intuitive. There is videos at Youtube that can help, but send me a message if you need, and I can help you on how to use it


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## EmperorV (Sep 26, 2014)

Diede said:


> First of all, you will need to install the cable driver and software.
> The software usage is very intuitive. There is videos at Youtube that can help, but send me a message if you need, and I can help you on how to use it


Ok thanks I will, i'll go to their site to c which one 1 suites my needs an discuss with you further

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## D-cappz (Feb 18, 2016)

What's the word on the M/C upgrade?
T4 Transport 25.4mm work?
Spongy feeling go away with stock m/c?


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## D-cappz (Feb 18, 2016)

Here is what I possibly came up with

I have been looking for an upgrade, I have come to this. I was told a T4 Transport 25.4mm m/c may work, but I noticed the mounting holes are rotated slightly different. 

Option 1
Use a T4 m/c, but Rotate the housing on my MK4 booster so that the studs line up for mounting. 

Option 2
Take Apart both the T4 and MK4 m/c's, bore out the stock MK4 m/c and put the internals and the 25.4mm Pistons from the T4 into the MK4. 

Option 3
Possibly use a T4 booster and m/c?
I haven't explored the booster as of yet, but it does look a little too large


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## Rod_Polo_R (Jul 18, 2018)

Is there any additional information on the installation of the Kit?
navigating a little in Etka I found this option in the same size of T4 ... this 7M3611019D from VW Sharan whit ESP

The factory number of my jetta VR6 2003 1J1614019F with ESP

7M3611019D 25.4mm 2XM12


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## Cookiez (Apr 7, 2014)

Bumping this one, anyone tried the newest suggestions or something else?


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