# clutch: spec vs southbend



## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

soo im looking into a new clutch for my mkv gti with apr stage 2 and will hopefully be going to k04 within 2 years....

i have read good and bad reviews about both spec and southbend clutches can anyone verify if i should go with the stage 2+ spec clutch with the steel flywheel or the stage 1 southbend with the steel flywheel? i know that the steel flywheel is better than the aluminum for quietness but not sure on brand. to me it seems like the installation is the key and i have a vw dealership doing it at cost and having a family friend who is a retired professional racer doing the install so i know there will be no problems.... 

any input is helpful thanx again guys!


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

We have provided/installed both and on a daily, they are both very sound choices. Personally, I do like the SB setups because of their stock-like quiet steel SM flywheels.


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

thanx for the reply i am concerned with the failures that have been reported with the sb fw have u seen or heard anything bout those?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

My south bend stage 2 failed within 3000 miles. They honored the warranty but I got stuck with the labor and shipping cost. 

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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

yup exactly what i have been hearing.... i havent heard anything bad bout spec but i guess its a crapshoot between the two... thanx for ur input and sry to hear bout ur situation btw do u have a new sb? how many miles on it?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

1000 miles so far. I'm running a f23t this time though. Hopefully the last one was just a fluke.

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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

sooo anyone have any experience with spec????? really need to get this nailed down

so far i have read quite a few reviews of the sb clutches having issues and failing, however apr recommends them and says its mostly driver error or a bad batch and now sb has a revision out that should not go bad. that being said i havent come across any reviews of spec clutches so please anyone that has them please chime in!!


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Spec has been a little more consistent as far as quality over a length of time. I will go by the last 6x SB clutches we've actually installed on the MK5/6 platform and they have been great so far. I have supplied many more that havent been installed by us and havent, so far, had any negative feedback. I do supply and have installed both. Spec has very good products but the noise arising from incorrect rotational mass from the SM FW is a tad annoying.


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

hey thanx AL! soo im wondering if the steel smfw from spec is quieter than the aluminum, thats what i have heard.... or would it be better to get the sb smfw and a spec pressure plate and friction disk?


thanx for all the info AL major props to u guys!


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

kylegti07 said:


> hey thanx AL! soo im wondering if the steel smfw from spec is quieter than the aluminum, thats what i have heard.... or would it be better to get the sb smfw and a spec pressure plate and friction disk?
> 
> 
> thanx for all the info AL major props to u guys!


I would not mix and match aftermarket clutch parts. Even though the pressure plates might use the same Sachs covers, the disc/material thickness can vary. Its either one or the other. If you have problems, you'll have both companies pointing fingers at each other. If you are more comfortable with spec's clutches, go with the spec. :thumbup:


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

hey al one last question, so just as i was about to pull the trigger on a sb stage 2 daily clutch kit due to all the positive stuff i have heard however, i noticed that the spec stage 2 friction disk looks exactly the same as a stage 3 endurance sb friction disk. they have what looks to be the same design however the spec one is like $300 cheaper. is the design of that friction disk common or is it drastically different between spec and sb?


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

kylegti07 said:


> hey al one last question, so just as i was about to pull the trigger on a sb stage 2 daily clutch kit due to all the positive stuff i have heard however, i noticed that the spec stage 2 friction disk looks exactly the same as a stage 3 endurance sb friction disk. they have what looks to be the same design however the spec one is like $300 cheaper. is the design of that friction disk common or is it drastically different between spec and sb?


Yes, Spec's SM clutch kits seem to be a bit cheaper. Both stages uses a Kevlar disc. Its the same in material only. The hubs are different as well as the pressure plate covers.


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

soo after much deliberation i went with the sb stage 2 daily.... i also got a ss clutch line from usp, and the ecs clutch block that removes the restrictor of hydraulic fluid. so my only question now is does the sb stage 2 kit come with a pilot bearing?? or do i need to purchase a new one? thanx again for all the help! this should make the gti fun again!! :beer:


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## DroppinTheSasquatch (Oct 5, 2003)

I have SB Stage 2 Daily - broke it in for 150-200km and hammered on it ever since on my S2+

Grabs great and is only maybe 10-15% stiffer than stock - revs up nice with the lighter flywheel too.


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

hey man glad to hear!! did you need a pilot bearing or did the kit come with one??


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## FinderRO (Sep 17, 2012)

I need to start looking for a clutch kit myself this winter as I plan to pull the transmission in the spring.
I did some reading and it seemed to me that the ClutchMasters FX350 is the better kit for our cars.
I would like to hear some opinions from you guys.


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

ya know i was doing the same research for quite a while and found many reviews that were positive and negative about spec, sb, and cm. it seems to me and other members that the clutch really comes down to how well its installed and how well the break in goes. i went with sb because for one apr stands by the product and it has a warranty! also i found a great deal for the sb stage 2 that made it $400 cheaper than the cm clutch. i am also having it installed by vw and will be following the strict break in procedures. ill let you know how it is but for my money the sb seemed like the best deal plus it holds the perfect amount of power! also the fx350 maybe a little much for a stage II car....


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## FinderRO (Sep 17, 2012)

Are you getting the aluminum flywheel?
Can you share some details about the deal you found?
I was thinking of getting a kit this week with all these black friday deals.


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

ya i just got it from APT tuning they sell it for $950 all the time which is even cheaper than the spec clutch on sale. and no i got the steel flywheel, the aluminum ones make too much noise and will only see a benefit from them if ur car is a race car only..........


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I've been having issues w/ South Bend.

Let me know how your experience goes.


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## FinderRO (Sep 17, 2012)

What stage and flywheel?


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

ya would also like to hear which sb clutch u got also who installed it, what break in procedures did u use and what problems are you having....


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

It was installed by a high end shop. I know their work is top notch. 

Started with a Stage 2 Street setup. Broke it in properly. 500 miles of smooth engagements, no beating on it etc. It was replaced under warranty after it started to slip prematurely. They upgraded me for free to the Stage 2 Endurance. It was a rattle trap, vibration monster. I took it back to the shop after 40 miles of driving it nicely. They tore it out, took pictures, sent the pics to southbend, southbend asked to have it all mailed back to see what the manufacturing defect is. 

They have been a great company to work with as far as admitting mistakes and wanting to help - but that doesn't help w/ the down time of my car.



edit:

SMF using a fluidampr crank pulley to help smooth things out. My car makes a lot of power, but I don't slip the clutch much at all. I will give it WOT throttle when it is fully engaged. Keep in mind I have been driving manual transmissions for 16 years, and have had clutches with over 200,000 miles on them still grab hard. I know how to break them in, and I know how to drive them. This is strictly manufacturing issues.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

I have two customers come in recently including a MK5 Jetta that we supplied and installed a stage 2+ on. MK6 has the same. So far so good. Nothing but smiles on everyone's faces so far. Supplied a DMF'ed Clutchmasters FX400 to a customer in Cali. Clutch kit doesnt want to disengage. We are investigating the problem now. 02M's are known for shimming issues that can exacerbate this problem so having the customer check that now. I took apart an 02M that recently had a Spec Stage 3+ installed. The clutch wasn't exhibiting problems. We just needed to get to the rear main seal. Well, upon close inspection, the springs were on the verge of extricating themselves from the hub and it was caught on time. With a lot of back and forth (clutch companies never like to admit to mistakes) we got them to warranty the disc. Its difficult, sometimes, to do remote diagnostics on clutch issues. But as you can see, problems arent necessarily isolated to one manufacturer. We are aware of the different problems that can arise from clutch installs and they are not necessarily just clutch issues. When you are upgrading diaphragm pressures and clutch faces/hubs, there are certain dynamics that surface that would not be an issue with an OEM clutch setup. Yet, sometimes it is a manufacturing defect...


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

hey X thanx for your input!! 

I hope i didnt **** up by getting a sb clutch... 

do you guys know if their warranty is only if you purchase the clutch from them directly or do they still honor the warranty if you get it from a distributor??

also it seems like a lot of the problems with aftermarket clutches occur on TSI equipped cars like 08+ luckily i have an 07 FSI so maybe ill be safe... also anyone know the year break that vw started putting in steel shifter forks in the tranny?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

They are excellent about warranty support. 

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## vw20tfsi (Nov 23, 2013)

*i own a southbend st2 daily clutch*



xtravbx said:


> They are excellent about warranty support.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


had it installed when i had my trans rebuilt . my stock clutch was in perfect condition at 84k km. my southbend st2 daily still grabs hard at 90k km,breakin was done for 1000km.
downside is its fairly noisy at idle and since the install i have a vibration that i didnt have before with the stock dmf, not catastrophic but annoying and that even tho i installed a f
fluiddamper to smooth things out.engagement is very smooth, revs faster than before. good clutch in my opinion up to date. my car is now in storage for the winter.

ps excuse my spelling im a french canadien


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

ok sooo the sb stage 2 daily arrived today!! will be putting it in in a week or so. i do have one question for Al or anyone that has purchased one of these clutches recently. I am wondering what your friction plate looks like. I want to make sure i got the newest version of friction plate, "the silent" one. the one i got has a anodized black hub and 4 springs. I have not been able to locate a picture of the official sb stage 2 daily clutch, it seems everyone use a stockphoto to advertise. can anyone verify if i got the right one? also i have a pic but cant post it on here for sum reason so i can email or text it to anyone for comparison!! 

thanx again guys!!

first impressions of the build quality of the sb clutch are pretty top notch!!!


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

Hey al or anyone with experience, i also wanted to ask you if you had experienced or heard anything good or bad about using an aftermarket ss clutch line and an ecs cnc bleeder block, "which removes the flow restriction that the stock bleeder has" with a sb clutch?


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## vw20tfsi (Nov 23, 2013)

kylegti07 said:


> Hey al or anyone with experience, i also wanted to ask you if you had experienced or heard anything good or bad about using an aftermarket ss clutch line and an ecs cnc bleeder block, "which removes the flow restriction that the stock bleeder has" with a sb clutch?


i have the usp ss clutch line, cant say i felt a difference beacause i had it installed at the same time as my SB clutch. i might be buying the ECS bleeder block in the spring


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

from other reviews ive read it seems like the bleeder block will make a difference with an aftermarket clutch... ill let you know how mine turns out


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