# 17z Brake swap help...



## uniqueflh (Jan 10, 2015)

Hey folks! I put this in the ‘brakes’ section of the forum, but thought that it may be more beneficial to post it here, as it’s specific to the A3...

I’ve spent the last few days reading all I can about doing a 17z caliper swap/upgrade... 
I think I have everything sorted-out, but though I would ask before I start buying (more) stuff.
So. The following are sorta statement/questions. If anyone can tell me if I’m wrong, missing something, or whatever...I’d REALLY appreciate the feedback. 

- 2006 Touareg calipers from a 330mm rotor will put me ‘in business’, and are the 17z brake platform. 

- JH Motorsports bolt kit allows the 17z (Touareg) caliper to fit without need of further modification. 

- Mercedes ML350 front rotors will be a direct fit on to the A3 hub without any other modification needed for caliper/rotor alignment. Although, there is no accommodation on the ML350 rotor for the countersunk ‘mounting’ screw. 

- Hubcentric rings (metal, not plastic) will be need for the rotor to sit proper. * What is the exact size ring needed? And does anyone have a source/link for them that is currently in business?

- Brake lines from the MK5/R-32 will be a direct bolt-on replacement part. 

- Lower control arm modification (grinding, cutting...whatever) may be necessary to eliminate the risk of contact at ‘full lock’ turns. 

- Wheel spacers may be required to allow for adequate caliper/wheel clearance. But this is all dependent upon wheel fitment & offset. 


Does this all seem right?


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## PreMier (Jan 4, 2006)

ive been researching this a bit as well (BBK upgrade), and heres the link i saved http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167209

looks like you need 67-65mm rings http://www.hubcentric-rings.com/size-67.1-65.1-alu/ <-- just noticed they arent in stock, and ive looked around and seems not many carry them :facepalm: heres one but i dont know what theyre made of, maybe email them http://www.centricrings.com/hubcent...-67.1mm-in-diameter-65.0mm-height-10mm/set/73

everything else seems right, except ive never heard of the control arm modification? 

also i noticed that ECS now carries an 18z upgrade kit, and they have a parts list on there. even though pad size/rotors are different it might list all the parts youll need if that makes sense.


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## uniqueflh (Jan 10, 2015)

Thanks for the reply. 

I’m pretty sure I’m on the right track, you know, if The Internet is to be trusted...


I picked-up the Touareg calipers this morning, but won’t be able to begin disassembling/cleaning them until the end of the week. But, these things are HUGE. I can see why so many BBK Swap threads end-up discussing wheel spacers & clearance problems. Hopefully they are going to sit behind my Rotiforms without issue. 

There are a bunch of 65.1-67.1 aluminum hub rings on eBay for like $10. Shipping seems to take a while, but oh well, I’m not in a huge hurry. 

I have read SO many threads on this upgrade, I don’t recall which ones specifically referenced the control arm clearance problem...but I know it was mentioned more than once. Also, I called JH Motorsports and the guy said there are clearance issues. 

Anyway. I’ll see how it all goes. Fingers crossed. 


Brad.


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## uniqueflh (Jan 10, 2015)

Picked-up 17z, 4-piston, calipers from a local salvage yard. Now time to do some clean-up & paint. 

Hardware kit & hubcentric rings have been ordered. Just need to order the rotors & brake lines. 
































Brad.


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## AngryGiraffe (Sep 21, 2014)

I don't think those are 17z's. 17z's are generally 6 piston calipers. Those look more like the Boxster 4 piston brembos.


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## uniqueflh (Jan 10, 2015)

AngryGiraffe said:


> I don't think those are 17z's. 17z's are generally 6 piston calipers. Those look more like the Boxster 4 piston brembos.


Yeah. My research leads me to believe that there were a few variations that were OEM on the VW Touareg. 17z may be the wrong actual terminology for this set, as they were from the 1LE package, but I believe (fingers crossed) they will still work with the (330mm) ML350 rotors. 

I’ve been working on getting them cleaned-up in my spare time. Will probably order rotors today & try a mock-up next week. If all goes well, I will have them ‘usable’ in about 2-weeks. We’ll see. Waiting on the piston seal kits to arrive. 

There, unfortunately, are SO many threads about OEM+ BBKs out on the Interwebs that it’s really a challenge to find the ‘perfect’ source for all info in one spot. Seems that most of the discussions that begin with Touareg Front Brake Swap end-up degrading into arguments about what rotors are junk and/or get sidetracked on rear brake set-ups. 


Brad.


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## Tjtalan (Jan 19, 2013)

uniqueflh said:


> Yeah. My research leads me to believe that there were a few variations that were OEM on the VW Touareg. 17z may be the wrong actual terminology for this set, as they were from the 1LE package, but I believe (fingers crossed) they will still work with the (330mm) ML350 rotors.
> 
> I’ve been working on getting them cleaned-up in my spare time. Will probably order rotors today & try a mock-up next week. If all goes well, I will have them ‘usable’ in about 2-weeks. We’ll see. Waiting on the piston seal kits to arrive.
> 
> ...


Those look like the rear calipers from a Touareg. They will not work in front, sorry man.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Tjtalan said:


> Those look like the rear calipers from a Touareg. They will not work in front, sorry man.


I'm not sure that this is the case - as long as you have brackets that fit and get the calipers over the rotor, they will work. 

For the brake lines, why would you need something different? I can't see the connection for the brake line, but I've only ever had to replace the lines when there's a hard line from the caliper that connects to a flex section. From what I can see on the caliper, it looks like it's missing the crossover tube, which is also going to be an issue.


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## Tjtalan (Jan 19, 2013)

npace said:


> I'm not sure that this is the case - as long as you have brackets that fit and get the calipers over the rotor, they will work.
> 
> For the brake lines, why would you need something different? I can't see the connection for the brake line, but I've only ever had to replace the lines when there's a hard line from the caliper that connects to a flex section. From what I can see on the caliper, it looks like it's missing the crossover tube, which is also going to be an issue.


I could be wrong here but those calipers are designed to work with a smaller rear rotor, I think its about 310 mm. So they will not work with the 330mm he is planing on using, at least bolted onto the factory location like the 17Z. Anything is possible with the right component, but I don't think they will fit into his plans.


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## uniqueflh (Jan 10, 2015)

Tjtalan said:


> I could be wrong here but those calipers are designed to work with a smaller rear rotor, I think its about 310 mm. So they will not work with the 330mm he is planing on using, at least bolted onto the factory location like the 17Z. Anything is possible with the right component, but I don't think they will fit into his plans.



Well. 

Let’s just assume that I’m not a total idiot, and that the calipers, rotors, lines & hardware that I ordered are all correct & necessary...

Making that assumption. I need to decide what color to paint the calipers. I’m leaning towards gloss black. Silver is my backup color choice. But, really, why do a BBK if you’re not going to show them off with a glossy bright red coat of paint?

I don’t know. Too many decisions. 


Brad.


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## uniqueflh (Jan 10, 2015)

npace said:


> For the brake lines, why would you need something different? I can't see the connection for the brake line, but I've only ever had to replace the lines when there's a hard line from the caliper that connects to a flex section. From what I can see on the caliper, it looks like it's missing the crossover tube, which is also going to be an issue.


I’m going to do some test fitting this weekend to verify fitment. 

Research tells me that there were three (3) Touareg/Cayenne front OEM caliper options that will all bolt directly to the A3 spindle. 

1LE - a four piston Brembo (330mm)
Z17 - a six piston Brembo (330mm)
Z18 - a six piston Brembo (350mm)

The calipers I have are the 1LE units. 

These should offer better performance, bolt-up easily and still fit (may need spacers though) under my 17” VW Heritage ‘winter’ wheels. 


Brad.


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## Tjtalan (Jan 19, 2013)

uniqueflh said:


> Well.
> 
> Let’s just assume that I’m not a total idiot, and that the calipers, rotors, lines & hardware that I ordered are all correct & necessary...
> 
> ...


My apologies if I was incorrect. I did not realize the touareg had a 4 piston front option. I work on VW and Audi for a living, I have never seen one, also I guess I was stuck on the title, 17Z.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Tjtalan said:


> I could be wrong here but those calipers are designed to work with a smaller rear rotor, I think its about 310 mm. So they will not work with the 330mm he is planing on using, at least bolted onto the factory location like the 17Z. Anything is possible with the right component, but I don't think they will fit into his plans.


Gotcha, makes sense. If these are a 1LE unit designed for the front with a 330mm rotor (I have no idea on this), there's still going to be the issue of needing to buy or fab up a bracket so they can bolt up to the spindle / knuckle.


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## uniqueflh (Jan 10, 2015)

npace said:


> Gotcha, makes sense. If these are a 1LE unit designed for the front with a 330mm rotor (I have no idea on this), there's still going to be the issue of needing to buy or fab up a bracket so they can bolt up to the spindle / knuckle.


Messed around with it for a little while today...


Everything bolts-up all proper-like. Caliper mounting bolts align correctly with the OEM spindle. Wheels have enough offset to roll without use of spacers. Woot!
I’m going to shave about 1.4mm off the ‘ears’ of the calipers to even-out the inboard/outboard rotor clearance (inside clearance is about 3mm, outboard clearance is less than 1mm). I’ll probably shave a bit off the mounting bolts to allow for more clearance there too. Everything currently fits & works, this is just for my piece of mind. 

So. Anyway. Just waiting on my hubcentric rings to arrive. Oh. Need to find some paint too. Then I’ll put it all together for good. Hopefully. 











Brad.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

So these bolt directly to the knuckle? No bracket or anything? That's pretty cool.


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## uniqueflh (Jan 10, 2015)

npace said:


> So these bolt directly to the knuckle? No bracket or anything? That's pretty cool.


Correct. They mount with a nut/bolt/sleeve. 

Haven’t, obviously, done the power coat yet...but I’m estimating that I’ll be all-in for about $600-650 once it’s complete. 


Brad.


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## PreMier (Jan 4, 2006)

Great work! That’s nice they bolted right up, what colour you gonna do them?


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## uniqueflh (Jan 10, 2015)

Decided to go with black...

Car needs a bath. Pics were taken after I went out & bedded-in the new pads/rotors. 

I think I still have a little bit of air in the lines, so going to bleed them again...but, seriously, this thing stops HARD now. I’m pleased. 











Brad.


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## uniqueflh (Jan 10, 2015)

Just a follow-up to my install...

There are things that could have gone more smoothly with this upgrade, and some stuff happened that ended-up increasing costs. But. In checking the numbers, this upgrade should have totaled $550 to complete. Well worth the money considering the increase in braking performance. As I said in my previous post, it stops HARD now. A significant improvement over OEM. 

Because the shop that I used to sandblast the calipers did some wonky nonsense, it caused me about $125 extra, so I was all-in to the tune of $700. Still well worth the money...but it was a huge annoyance. 

Anyway. All things considered, I am SO pleased with the performance. In reading (many) other threads about DIY BBK upgrades I am glad I decided to do the 4-piston 1LE setup instead of the 6-piston 17Z or 18Z calipers. While it’s not really a direct ‘bolt on’ solution, the small amount of work that’s required to get everything to fit is worth the time invested. 


Brad.


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## voytekk1 (May 19, 2020)

Hey, I just got the same setup for my 07 Seat Altea Freetrack and my caliper touch the lower control arm when turning steering wheel.
I can't post the links or images as I'm a new user but I installed the driver side caliper (EU) and can't turn right for more than like 15 degrees while car was on the stands.
Altea Freetrack has 40mm raised ride height so that could be the issue but not sure. 

@uniqueflh - on your first post you mentioned lower control arm modification, do you maybe have a links to pages where I can find more info about that?


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## Hawkman312 (Nov 4, 2016)

Does anyone by chance know the piston sizes for these calipers? The 17Zs are appealing but aren't a great match for Mk5 cars based on the stock master cylinder. As a result I've been looking at the 996.351.429.10 caliper, which is a better match, size-wise, but more expensive and tricky to find. If these are a good match, I'd be really interested to see if they come out cheaper than the 996 calipers.


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## uniqueflh (Jan 10, 2015)

voytekk1 said:


> Hey, I just got the same setup for my 07 Seat Altea Freetrack and my caliper touch the lower control arm when turning steering wheel.
> I can't post the links or images as I'm a new user but I installed the driver side caliper (EU) and can't turn right for more than like 15 degrees while car was on the stands.
> Altea Freetrack has 40mm raised ride height so that could be the issue but not sure.
> 
> @uniqueflh - on your first post you mentioned lower control arm modification, do you maybe have a links to pages where I can find more info about that?


Voytekk - I’m sorry, but I can’t offer too much help beyond what I had posted above...I read back thru my posts to try to refresh my memory, but it didn’t bring back too much. 

* I had a brain aneurysm a while back, and my long-term memory is now total ****. So. Most of the stuff I posted seems almost like someone else wrote it. Kinda sucks. 

Anyway. There is some grinding that has to be done to allow for proper clearance. The small part that I actually remember is that it was not a whole lot. 


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## voytekk1 (May 19, 2020)

Thanks Brad!

Hawkman312 - for 4pots brembo from touareg v6 330mm they are 4 pots 46mm each


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## kgw (May 1, 2008)

Tarox has already done the math....


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## cleanA3 (Jun 23, 2007)

Just finished my 17z swap. With RB rotors and mk4 r32 brake lines









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## WhiteTDI (Jan 17, 2010)

cleanA3 said:


> Just finished my 17z swap. With RB rotors and mk4 r32 brake lines
> 
> 
> 
> ...


for which vehicle did your order the RB rotors for?


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## cleanA3 (Jun 23, 2007)

WhiteTDI said:


> for which vehicle did your order the RB rotors for?


Audi .the vw has a different hub height

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