# Who's got 200whp non turbo?



## brandonholland (Aug 23, 2009)

Im thinking bout doin APR's 93 oct ecu with carb intake and AWE exhaust. should put me at 200whp.
I'm just curious what that will feel like vs my stock 170= which btw, isnt all that bad.









like a gti??


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## david8814 (Aug 14, 2007)

You're dreaming. You'll be lucky to break 160whp. Sorry.


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## brandonholland (Aug 23, 2009)

*Re: (david8814)*

is that a fact. cause APR has a contract that youl get 181 just wiht the ecu upgrade. dyno photos to prove it. unless it just APR bologne.


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## brandonholland (Aug 23, 2009)

*Re: (brandonholland)*

excuse me. just hp. not whp.


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## david8814 (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: (brandonholland)*

Read this: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4530817
edit: Highest crank horsepower numbers seen were ~180hp.


_Modified by david8814 at 12:24 AM 9-21-2009_


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## brandonholland (Aug 23, 2009)

*Re: (david8814)*

I havent personally seen my car on dyno. but the car has 170 stock. how can it not be 200 once you add that stuff??? want to explain.?? I think i will trust audi performance over people on here until i see it myself.

You can wat- bout 6-8 hp on intake right??
The ecu gives me 11more hp. and then AWE is the top rated echaust along with neuspeed eurojet and catback


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## seanmcd72 (May 14, 2008)

It doesn't work that way. You don't add up all the "claimed" HP numbers from your add-ons. APR's numbers at at the crank not the wheels. You will not be getting 200whp from a program/exhaust/intake combo. The end.


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## 07bunny (Nov 21, 2007)

*Re: (seanmcd72)*

i have the 150hp engine and have all the things you listed and only made 174hp to the wheels. there is no way you will be able to make 200whp with just intake,exhaust,and chip.


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## brandonholland (Aug 23, 2009)

*Re: (07bunny)*

ok. well lets just speak in terms of peak "hp". I actually didnt mean to say whp. it just looks good to type that. misleadying my badd. So wat can i get with those three things. Its got to be close.

???/


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## Downshift7 (Aug 19, 2009)

*Re: (brandonholland)*

if your lookin to go real fast either turbo the bunny or trade it in... and listen to those audi preformance people all you want, ill stick with my vortex alllll day


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

*Re: (brandonholland)*

do some searching. you wont be more than 160 WHP and maybe like 180 at the crank max


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## jettafan[atic] (Dec 2, 2008)

*Re: (nickbeezy)*

See, here's the thing, you need to understand the engine before knowing what to expect. Not just the 2.5, I mean engines on a whole.
Let's start with the basics, the engine is basically a big air pump, air and fuel go into the cylinder and exhaust goes out. A huge amount of power is all about airflow. The better the airflow and the more your engine can move/displace the more power it pumps out, get it?
Now think of the engine as a box with two holes that have pipes attached. The holes are the intake and the exhaust and the pipes on those holes are your intake setup and your exhaust setup. Change the intake and the exhaust tubes to bigger more free flowing tubes and the airflow will be less restricted but the box is still the same size. Because the box is the same size it's not going to make much more power as it's still just as restricted and can't actually move much more air. Change the ecu and it's going to improve how the engine uses that space but you are still stuck with the same size box so you get a limited increase in power. Theres only so much hp you can make until your engine just cant do any more with it's volumetric efficiency.
Now to get big power gains you should understand by now that you need to find a way to work around the size of your box and somehow force it to move more air, obviously leading us to forced induction. (FI) Air can be compressed so it is possible to squeeze more air into a limited space than is possible under normal atmospheric pressure. With more air being squeezed in more energy (power) will be pushed out of the engine.
Do you get now how the gains you get from flashing the ecu, adding an intake, and exhaust don't just stack up on each other? It's about volumetric efficiency and moving more air as a whole, there are many different parts of the engine that restrict airflow and other factors such as vacuum that prevent more air from being used. Intakes and exhausts make it easier for the engine to maximize the amount of air used but the amount of air that can possibly be pushed through the system is the same. This is why breaking 200 whp on our engines when they are normally aspirated (NA) is still a goal, and not a matter of throwing money at the car.


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

To make 200WHP you will need to bump compression by .5 - 1 point. Get rid of the long runners on the stock intake mani, new exhaust 3" header back. New cams (stock ones are for daily driving not power), maybe bigger injectors (dunno what stock ones are rated to), etc etc etc. MAYBE new valvetrain in the end if your engine needs to rev higher, new valves etc.
By the time you get to 200whp you'll spend 2-3x as much as a guy going turbo who will make more power, and more torque all the way across the power band. Especially torque which will make the car fun to daily drive... versus an NA track car basically.
It can be done but not for cheap and not easily at this point in time either.
You're better off starting with a GTI. I mean build a rabbit all you want but in the end you still don't have the advantage of direct fuel injection. What a waste.


_Modified by kungfoojesus at 5:12 PM 9-22-2009_


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## jettafan[atic] (Dec 2, 2008)

*Re: (kungfoojesus)*

Bingo!
Only "advantage" you'll have is no turbo lag. And from what I've heard there's not much lag on the turbo kits out there.


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## jettafan[atic] (Dec 2, 2008)

*Re: (kungfoojesus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kungfoojesus* »_ Get rid of the long runners on the stock intake mani

Just reread that and I have to disagree, short runners are good for low rpm and long runners are good for high speed breathing. What we really need is a variable length mani.


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## brandonholland (Aug 23, 2009)

*Re: (jettafan[atic])*

thanks yall. As you know im yougn and learning by the day. I dont know sh*t bout these things or cars in general. I had to throw my stupid improbable questions out there and see what I got.

The only GTI I have access too is thee 88 in the backyard.


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## VR6DPLMT. (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: (brandonholland)*

Isn't it kind of funny that it's easier to get a N/A engine with older technology with 1.8l displacement and 4cylinders starting out at 170hp to 200whp than it is the newer technology 2.5 I5 with 170?(the engine speaking of is the Honda B18c1)


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## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (brandonholland)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brandonholland* »_thanks yall. As you know im yougn and learning by the day. I dont know sh*t bout these things or cars in general. I had to throw my stupid improbable questions out there and see what I got.

Not stupid; we all started learning sometime.
btw, APR had a wheel hp/tq graph posted when the 2.5 program came out. It showed 162 hp/182 tq at the wheels.
If I were you, living not too far from Opelika, I'd skip the exhaust (AWE or any other) and order a Eurojet Header and High-Flow catalyst. 20 squared has it on sale for $875 complete and with free shipping. (The AWE exhaust would run you close to $725 with shipping.) Then drive over to APR and get the intake and Stage II program. I would suspect that they would be inclined to give you a break on the price because you would be providing them with an opportunity to write a special file for the header and high flow cat. And by helping to create that file, you'd be helping out a lot of dubbers that would go with the header if there was an APR software option, since not everyone has a C2 dealer nearby. 
IMO you'd end up with more power than with a catback for just $150 more, and if you're nice APR might absorb that. It would also sound nice. You can always get an exhaust later...










_Modified by brian81 at 7:04 AM 9-23-2009_


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## 2ohgti (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: (VR6DPLMT.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6DPLMT.* »_Isn't it kind of funny that it's easier to get a N/A engine with older technology with 1.8l displacement and 4cylinders starting out at 170hp to 200whp than it is the newer technology 2.5 I5 with 170?(the engine speaking of is the Honda B18c1)

Or like a 12v VR6 w/ 172 bhp that puts down 150ish to the wheels stock and there are 200 whp NAs. I haven't seen a 2.5 get to 200 whp yet. The 2.5's cyl head breaths better then the 12v VR6 head too. 
I'm guessing VW and other brands have figured out ways to prevent people from making power on a less expensive car. Why buy a GTI when you can get the same power for less?


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## VR6DPLMT. (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: (2ohgti)*

True True. Yes I think i recall hearing that the 2.5l head out flows the 1.8T 20v head also. Yes that's why next time around I am buying an 09 WRX 265hp AWD and their tranny's are stronger than the early 2.0 WRX's.


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## BluMagic (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: (VR6DPLMT.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6DPLMT.* »_Isn't it kind of funny that it's easier to get a N/A engine with older technology with 1.8l displacement and 4cylinders starting out at 170hp to 200whp than it is the newer technology 2.5 I5 with 170?(the engine speaking of is the Honda B18c1)


everyone makes fun of Vtec but i wish we could get the same kick out of our variable valve timing. 
the H22 in my EK felt like it had a turbo. 
I'm guessing designing cams and software that could utilize our VVT system in a similar way is incredibly expensive. 
but our CR is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay lower than honda B series. shoot. get the valve/spring kit sold and high comp pistons you'll be good to go. 
but you'll prob be over double the Turbo costs for materials only at that point. thats the advantage of a Low CR stock...boosting is easier 


_Modified by BluMagic at 12:29 PM 9-23-2009_


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## brandonholland (Aug 23, 2009)

*Re: (brian81)*

I would do some stuff to my car. I just don't want to get too deep and void my warrant. I have 4 years left on my waranty. It would be a good gamble of voiding it if i chipped it and did somethin to the motor. maybe in 4 more years when it goes out, theyll hjave some new technology for it.
I wish APR had some MK2 experience. All the MK2 ppl's are up on the east coast. ex:"german1"


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## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (brandonholland)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brandonholland* »_I would do some stuff to my car. I just don't want to get too deep and void my warrant. I have 4 years left on my waranty. It would be a good gamble of voiding it if i chipped it and did somethin to the motor. maybe in 4 more years when it goes out, theyll hjave some new technology for it

APR could direct you to a mod-friendly dealership, I have a feeling. People from all over the country buy cars over the phone and have them shipped directly to APR for serious power. At least one dealer in your area wouldn't hassle you. 
In any case, a dealer can't detect a flash that's been set back to stock mode. That's the idea of multiple programs. Go for it.


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## brandonholland (Aug 23, 2009)

*Re: (brian81)*

wat is a mod freindlt dealership??


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

Mod=modification. Friendly just means that they won't void your warranty unless it is a mod that can cause direct damage to a particular system. And if something happens to say your motor and you've got a new stereo, they aren't going to refuse your business due to something unrelated.


_Modified by sagerabbit at 9:14 PM 9-24-2009_


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## tnvdubclub (Nov 21, 2008)

*Re: Who's got 200whp non turbo? (brandonholland)*








seriously??


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## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: Who's got 200whp non turbo? (tnvdubclub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tnvdubclub* »_







seriously??


_Dat's Da Fact, Jack!!_


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

Check out how much work the 16v, 12v, and even 24v guys put into their motors to make 200whp. Not saying it is the same motor but it gives you an idea of the time and expense.


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## Terrence901 (Mar 5, 2007)

*Re: (kungfoojesus)*

I think I do. I did 5 runs last night and never lost including beating a slightly tuned vw bettle turbo. My mods in my signature...


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## tnvdubclub (Nov 21, 2008)

*Re: (Terrence901)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Terrence901* »_I think I do. I did 5 runs last night and never lost including beating a slightly tuned vw bettle turbo. My mods in my signature...

Umm no ... not even close. Unless you have an aftermarket air intake, aftermarket intake manifold, aftermarket cams, aftermarket header, aftermarket exhaust and ECU flash... you are going to be well below 200whp NA with the 2.5
Don't get me wrong, with an intake, exhaust and ECU flash alone the Rabbit is pretty quick but only around 150-170 whp.
Honestly, with just these mods, some suspension goodies and my 17" Yoko S Drives I am very content with overall performance. Also, you have to love the 2.5 engine and exhaust note!!


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: (BluMagic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluMagic* »_

everyone makes fun of Vtec but i wish we could get the same kick out of our variable valve timing. 
the H22 in my EK felt like it had a turbo. 
I'm guessing designing cams and software that could utilize our VVT system in a similar way is incredibly expensive. 
but our CR is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay lower than honda B series. shoot. get the valve/spring kit sold and high comp pistons you'll be good to go. 
but you'll prob be over double the Turbo costs for materials only at that point. thats the advantage of a Low CR stock...boosting is easier 

_Modified by BluMagic at 12:29 PM 9-23-2009_

You do realize that the huge advantage to the VTEC motors is that they basically have 2 sets of cams right? Not just what equates to an electronically controlled cam gear. The "switchover" goes from one profile (that is a nice streetable cam) to a racy profile (that would never idle like a stock car). It amazes me how little peopl seem to know about engines here on the tex. You are also far from the first person I've heard say that "VTEC is like its' own little turbo" and I live in Alaska. All I know is that if I paid for a turbo kit and all I got was a 10hp spike at 5K I would be pissed.
Get a friggin' clue, do some research. If you wanted Mad V-Tak Powah Yo you should have bought a Honda.
Oh, and I have NEVER owned any Honda product except a 50cc minibike. I have been a diehard VW fan for 15 years. But I do know how the Honda motors work and they do make me jealous.
Have fun thinking you can gain 40whp with an I/C/E.


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## Terrence901 (Mar 5, 2007)

*Re: (g60vw)*

Odd because I beat a VW Beetle Turbo last night 2 pulls 1/4 mile.


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## seanmcd72 (May 14, 2008)

*Re: (g60vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g60vw* »_You do realize that the huge advantage to the VTEC motors is that they basically have 2 sets of cams right? Not just what equates to an electronically controlled cam gear.

I think his point is that VTEC is not a complete joke as some people make it out to be. I'm not quite sure why anyone knocks it. And it's not two sets of cams, it's extra lobes on the camshafts.

_Quote, originally posted by *Terrence901* »_Odd because I beat a VW Beetle Turbo last night 2 pulls 1/4 mile.
Why don't you post some of your time slips?


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## Terrence901 (Mar 5, 2007)

*Re: (seanmcd72)*

No i didn't go to our nearby motorsports park we did some marked street runs where over 300+ people meet. I will once I get my suspension done and low profile tires.


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## BluMagic (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: (g60vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g60vw* »_
You do realize that the huge advantage to the VTEC motors is that they basically have 2 sets of cams right? Not just what equates to an electronically controlled cam gear. The "switchover" goes from one profile (that is a nice streetable cam) to a racy profile (that would never idle like a stock car). It amazes me how little peopl seem to know about engines here on the tex. You are also far from the first person I've heard say that "VTEC is like its' own little turbo" and I live in Alaska. All I know is that if I paid for a turbo kit and all I got was a 10hp spike at 5K I would be pissed.
Get a friggin' clue, do some research. If you wanted Mad V-Tak Powah Yo you should have bought a Honda.
Oh, and I have NEVER owned any Honda product except a 50cc minibike. I have been a diehard VW fan for 15 years. But I do know how the Honda motors work and they do make me jealous.
Have fun thinking you can gain 40whp with an I/C/E.

all that hate cause i said i like honda.... your super cool.... 
i know how vtec works and DOHC honda motors can be very powerful all motor. 

Dbag http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (brandonholland)*


_Quote »_In any case, a dealer can't detect a flash that's been set back to stock mode. That's the idea of multiple programs. Go for it.

incorrect. all the dealer has to do is hook your car up to a computer and run your past boost logs that are saved in the ECU's memory. if they want to, they will be able to find out if you're chipped or not. putting the software back into stock mode only disables the software that still exists on the ECU, it won't truly hide it.


_Modified by LampyB at 7:34 AM 9-28-2009_


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## DUSlider (Nov 15, 2007)

*Re: (LampyB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LampyB* »_
incorrect. all the dealer has to do is hook your car up to a computer and run your past boost logs that are saved in the ECU's memory. if they want to, they will be able to find out if you're chipped or not. putting the software back into stock mode only disables the software that still exists on the ECU, it won't truly hide it.

_Modified by LampyB at 7:34 AM 9-28-2009_

Wait what, my 2.5 has a turbo stock?






















This may be true for a GTI, but not a Rabbit... Though I'm sure any dealer service person worth their salt would know by the lack of DBW lag and Rev Hang. Also, they could send the code to Wolfsburg and would know as well.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (DUSlider)*

well i guess "boost logs" isn't really what i meant...i come from the turbo world, this is my first NA car in like 15 yrs! i bet VW will still be able to pull up the logs on your power band.


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

They would have to have a reason to check for ECU upgrades. It's not like they want to do extra work - unless of course your engine is fried because of the massive amounts of power a chip will give you. Joking, of course. Some dealerships are offering APR tuning so it may not be as big of a deal as most would like to make out.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: (sagerabbit)*

wow.
*a lot *of false info in the thread....


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

you think..? lol...!!
there a guy doing +200 hp with a chip and a couple more mods..! lol...


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: (thygreyt)*

not a chance


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## eddi3okic (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: (nothing-leaves-stock)*

this is nonsense i was told my rabbit had 200 hp stock!!! DAMN DEALERSHIP!







(sarcasm of course)


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## IJSTROK (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: (eddi3okic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eddi3okic* »_this is nonsense i was told my rabbit had 200 hp stock!!! DAMN DEALERSHIP!







(sarcasm of course)

bro, my rabbit gotz 200 to the wheels stock. its a factory mutant.
and i pwn s2k's all day


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## jettafan[atic] (Dec 2, 2008)

*Re: (IJSTROK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IJSTROK* »_
bro, my rabbit gotz 200 to the wheels stock. its a factory mutant.
and i pwn s2k's all day

Did it come stock without an exhaust? Ya know runnin open headers makes the car sound and go like a Lambo.


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## CaTiRo (Sep 23, 2008)

wait i though since we had half the lambo's v10 we got half its power. i'm sure i'm right on this. logic owns all!


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## chrissisc0 (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: (CaTiRo)*

i thought the rabbit had a turbo stock? i mean my car is always breaking loose...all 4 tires to















you will not make 200hp without a turbo...hell the C2 stage 1 i think is only putting down 220 and there is alot of upgrades in that so goodluck to you


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: (Terrence901)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Terrence901* »_Odd because I beat a VW Beetle Turbo last night 2 pulls 1/4 mile.

Were the drivers equal? 
It will take a lot of money for the 2.5 to honestly see 200hp peak. Not even really worth it when you consider the other options available.


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## 2ohgti (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: (magics5rip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magics5rip* »_
Were the drivers equal? 
It will take a lot of money for the 2.5 to honestly see 200hp peak. Not even really worth it when you consider the other options available. 

I agree a 2.5 won't be making 200 whp NA now, but when cams and other parts become available, I can see it happening. It will just cost a lot.


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: (2ohgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2ohgti* »_
I agree a 2.5 won't be making 200 whp NA now, but when cams and other parts become available, I can see it happening. It will just cost a lot. 


To really start making power, you'll need to bumpt that CR up to 11.5:1, 5 angle valve job, balance the crank, big cams, notch the pistons for the larger lift/valve clearance, and probably go standalone. 
I agree, someone will do it. I'm exctied to see someone do it but I'm not willing to spend that kind of cash on the 2.5


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

All motor is expensive but horse for horse an all motor car is faster than an FI car. Don't think for a minute that a 200whp turbo car will be as fast as a 200whp NA car.


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## tnvdubclub (Nov 21, 2008)

*Re: (magics5rip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magics5rip* »_
I agree, someone will do it. I'm exctied to see someone do it but I'm not willing to spend that kind of cash on the 2.5









X2
Someone please go all out with the 2.5!!
Then make some vids and post some sound clips for the rest of us to drool over ...


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## chrissisc0 (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: (tnvdubclub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tnvdubclub* »_
X2
Someone please go all out with the 2.5!!
Then make some vids and post some sound clips for the rest of us to drool over ...










everyone donate money to me and i'll do it, that way you can drool all over the car you paid for but im driving http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

paypal?
or you'd rather have me send a check?


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## chrissisc0 (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: (thygreyt)*

either will work








but for real i wonder who out there is putting the most WHP to there rabbit without a turbo (na) i wont believe the numbers till i see a dyno sheet


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: (chrissisc0)*

highest i've seen is 185whp


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## 2ohgti (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: (magics5rip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magics5rip* »_
To really start making power, you'll need to bumpt that CR up to 11.5:1, 5 angle valve job, balance the crank, big cams, notch the pistons for the larger lift/valve clearance, and probably go standalone. 
I agree, someone will do it. I'm exctied to see someone do it but I'm not willing to spend that kind of cash on the 2.5









Yeah I agree completely. All that may cost more then a turbo set-up. I just hope someone comes out w/ a supercharger soon


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (2ohgti)*

Or you could all ways bolt up a bottle. But bottles are for babys. You could easily take the 2.5 over 200 with a little nitrous


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## david8814 (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: (Brabbit32)*

Please, God, no...


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (david8814)*

KABOOM!


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: (2ohgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2ohgti* »_
Yeah I agree completely. All that may cost more then a turbo set-up. I just hope someone comes out w/ a supercharger soon









we will build one if there is a customer out there that wants it and understands the one off process.
we have been looking into this for awhile now and have a bunch of info figured out. just need a willing person/car


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## conejoZING! (Nov 25, 2007)

*Re: (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_
we will build one if there is a customer out there that wants it and understands the one off process.
we have been looking into this for awhile now and have a bunch of info figured out. just need a willing person/car









Later on, I might be interested in this. Take my white Rabbit over to you and let you build it. Get rid of some weight (remove seats etc) and make it sound incredible. Would be great to get the seats out without some sort of dash "emergency" light or whatever. Even if it got around 190 something, would be nice. If it's lightweight and way Over 200... woo hoo!








Of course, I would have to drive all the way over to where you are. That or you could tell someone near me what to do (like Futrell or STM). 



_Modified by conejoZING! at 7:41 AM 11-16-2009_


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: Who's got 200whp non turbo? (brandonholland)*

No u can't get 200whp or even 200bhp with intake chip exhaust on a 2.5


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## conejoZING! (Nov 25, 2007)

*Re: Who's got 200whp non turbo? (mujjuman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mujjuman* »_No u can't get 200whp or even 200bhp with intake chip exhaust on a 2.5

dangit. Ah, sigh. Want to make the 2.5 into so much more. Really hard choice at the end of my lease. 2.5 does sound pretty freaking great and the N/A is probably "more reliable." Still, the GTI6 4 door Carbon looks pretty good. Kind of stealthy color, subtle. Slight touch of green. With the lights it's kind of stealthy Christmas colors (red and green). 
Though it would be nice to just have a sound blasting, reliable, 200ish N/A 2.5 Rabbit.


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (VR6DPLMT.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6DPLMT.* »_Isn't it kind of funny that it's easier to get a N/A engine with older technology with 1.8l displacement and 4cylinders starting out at 170hp to 200whp than it is the newer technology 2.5 I5 with 170?(the engine speaking of is the Honda B18c1)

But the Integra engine you are talking about doesnt make nearly the same amount of torque


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## Turbonix (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: (kungfoojesus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kungfoojesus* »_Don't think for a minute that a 200whp turbo car will be as fast as a 200whp NA car.

huh?


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: (Turbonix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Turbonix* »_
huh?









kungfoojesus is correct in his assessment.


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## ender619 (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_highest i've seen is 185whp


who has 185whp







with what mods


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## the_humeister (Sep 25, 2008)

Non-turbo? Surely supercharged can be > 200 whp...


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: (the_humeister)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_humeister* »_Non-turbo? Surely supercharged can be > 200 whp...

true but i think they meant NA...no boost at all...


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

*Re: (ender619)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ender619* »_

who has 185whp







with what mods









i could. if i had the software, and a manual tranny...






















i think it would have to be... thefastlane or... the other guy.


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (thygreyt)*

well im building my exhaust soon... and ill dyno next time ffe has a day for it. and upgrade to the uni stage 2 aswell... 
so it will be custom cai, 2.5" catback daul muff, high flow cat (maybe) and the stage 2 uni... whats peoples guesstimates? 
im thinkin 170 hp 185 tq maybe 180tq due to loss of back pressure







wheel that is


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## Schagephonic (Feb 5, 2009)

*Re: (bunnyhopin)*

I'm also looking at exhaust/header upgrades. Ive heard the topic of low packpressure not being a good thing and a possible drop in HP? I too am looking at the Dual Borla muffler Techtonics catback which might be a good combo with a header (if headers add much power).
I think anyone that's hit 170hp (NA) has reached near the top of the heap until the intake manifold and cams come out.


_Modified by Schagephonic at 6:05 PM 11-20-2009_


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (Schagephonic)*

low back-pressure will reduce low end torque.. and techtonics uses 2.25" tubing for the systems so you will lose none... they make awesome cat backs but, too pricey for me, i dont need the stainless steel.... use mild steel and heat coat it... or let it rust.. lol it will probably out last the car anyway...
i would like to make my own header but i need to have a flange milled as well as some pre-mandrel bent tubing... idk if its worth it due to the lack of connections, ill end up getting overcharged for material. 
(edit) just wondering how much of a difference did that pulley make? worth the $$? 


_Modified by bunnyhopin at 7:57 PM 11-20-2009_


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## Schagephonic (Feb 5, 2009)

*Re: (bunnyhopin)*

The pulley was my first mod and in short, yes it was worth the $120. I'd say their claim of 5-8hp is pletty close. I have made a post on my premature belt wear issues though and NST has since replaced the pulley. I have not re-installed it though because I've been enjoying the lack of subtle vibration when sitting in traffic with my tippy transmission. I'd consider selling if you're interested. NST has not had any other Rabbit owners report this problem, so I beleive it was a fluke or possible install issue.


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (Schagephonic)*

yea im trying to avoid all unnecessary purchases until i get a nice tig welder.... ive got 200 bucks so far... another 2700 to go


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## ender619 (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: (thygreyt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thygreyt* »_
i could. if i had the software, and a manual tranny...






















i think it would have to be... thefastlane or... the other guy.


the other guy ?? lol ...mysterious..
what are their current mods ?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

*Re: (ender619)*

dont remember.. but their cars are monsters.
remembering names here in the tex is knd of hard.


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## ender619 (Aug 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

lol... i want a monster too








MONSTERS! if ur out there... let me know ur mods.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (ender619)*

let me be the first!!








mods for thy greyt
PERFORMANCE
Engine mods
cai abd 
neuspeed exhaust 
neuspeed power pulley 
EuroJet headers
Eurojet high flow catalizer
SUSPENSION

Stress bar rear (inside trunk)
neuspeed rear sway bar
Neuspeed Front sway bar (will be installed in january) 
sport spings H&R 1.5" 
Neuspped rear endlinks 
BFI Transmission Mount Insert - Stage 2
BSH Billet Pendulum Mount 
NEUSPEED engine torque mount
BRAKING

yoko tires 225/35/18 Y 
drilled/slotter front and rear rotors (oem size)
hawk breaking pads hps 
TyrolSport Brake Caliper stiffenings kit

Visuals
INTERIOR

euro switch 
aluminum pedals (+ footrest) 
golf ball conversion knob ( i have an auto with a shift stick!!) 
.:R- Line steering wheel
avic u310bt 

EXTERIOR
15%tints 
3 piece lip spoiler 
angel eyes 
fogs 
high CECM 
gti front euro lip
Gli side skirts 
Tinted oem smoked tails
audi r8 rims 18" * 8 
Rieger roof spoiler
Color matched eyebrows
painted side makers
vw .:R logo 
short antenna
.:R line fog grills (arriving in jan)


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## david8814 (Aug 14, 2007)

Sick brah. All those mods must add like a bajillion horsepower. You must have a real "monster."


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

being an 2009 model, thats as much as i can do.
what haver you done to yours, brah?
i say mine is a monster based on the fact that i started on a base model, and i have done as much as my credit cards and salary has allowed me. most of the mods i am missing arent even in the market. so for a 2009 n/a jetta, it is a monster.


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Taxing out your credit cards for car mods... meh. I dunno why, but I feel it almost pointless to mod an auto (Not trying to dog ya, just sayin... I've driven a tippy once, it was smooth). As far as your car... Modded, yes. To define it as a "monster"... Well I wouldn't go that far. I think the NLS Rabbit takes the cake for that in the n/a world. Excuses about the car's year model don't matter here, the numbers speak for themselves.
Also, I bet david's car is well on the way to being paid off, Not everyone mods they're cars when they have payments. Shoot, I do like 3 mods a year, I like paying off my car. No need to go calling people out dude, some people don't like being car broke.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

lol. i know about the thing about being tippy tranny.
it sucks. but when i bought the car i had no idea what to do with it. now that i am keeping it, ima go ahead and do the 02j swap...
and lmao... its not excuses, its that since the car is so new, there are no software update to max out the performance! hell, i cant even do a turbo, even if i had the money right now.
btw, we all have car payments to make.


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## ender619 (Aug 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

i dont have a car payment to make... paid it off when i got it








so... once i put my header/highflow cat i'd be like a lil monster ? 
no power pulley for me.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

ok.. so we'll be LITTLE mosnters!!








good enough.


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*Re: (thygreyt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thygreyt* »_ok.. so we'll be LITTLE mosnters!!








good enough.

Lol. Sounds good man. + 500 for the o2j swap, for sure, make sure to get a single mass flywheel and what not, I hear it makes it even more fun to drive. I dunno... I'm all for the fun factor, and no tickets (Turbo Datsun=no license), so the rabbit is killer for me. Keep up the work man, and hopefully one of these companies will get a test mule for flashes soon!


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## david8814 (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: (thygreyt)*

I'm sorry but calling your car a "monster" is totally ludicrous. Treat it for what it is -- a ****ing compact -- and don't try and make out to be something it's not. It's rather boy racer-ish. Vroom vroom.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (TeamZleep)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TeamZleep* »_ To define it as a "monster"... Well I wouldn't go that far. I think the NLS Rabbit takes the cake for that in the n/a world.


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## Lt. Crash (Aug 27, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (nothing-leaves-stock)*

Josh, when will you be able to release dyno numbers??? Soon Please


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Lt. Crash)*









maybe soon.
still waiting on new test cams and playing with intake and exhaust still.... rather not release numbers as we go thru the testing...just want a good final single number. won't stop till we get great results! like over 200








but it power peaks at 6200-6400 now. pulls to 8200 and doesn't drop power. kind of levels out but no drop


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

anyone else care to show their little mnsters???
fastlane?


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## CaTiRo (Sep 23, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (TeamZleep)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TeamZleep* »_I dunno why, but I feel it almost pointless to mod an auto (Not trying to dog ya, just sayin... I've driven a tippy once, it was smooth)

back in the day i began to mod my 98 eclipse only to hate the fact i had an auto. every car since has been manuals.
98 Eclipse - automatic
2001 S10- manual
2000 SI - manual
2005 Mazda6- manual
2008 Jetta - manual


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## Lt. Crash (Aug 27, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_but it power peaks at 6200-6400 now. pulls to *8200* and doesn't drop power. kind of levels out but no drop









Revving to 8200?!?! What valve train tricks are you running?


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## BluMagic (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Lt. Crash)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lt. Crash* »_
Revving to 8200?!?! What valve train tricks are you running?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4572534


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Lt. Crash)*

you DON"T need any upgrades for the valve train at all to rev that high.
cams and software? yup, valves and springs, rollers etc...no
both my car and C2's turbo is reving that EVERY day. and for while now. on mine? maybe 8-10,000 miles
NEITHER car with any issues


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## 2.5_jetta_05 (Dec 9, 2009)

I might have 165whp >_>
Intake
Exhuast
Revo
and some other stuff


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: (2.5_jetta_05)*

165-170ish is about right for a GOOD flash, intake and cat back


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## 2.5_jetta_05 (Dec 9, 2009)

*Re: (nothing-leaves-stock)*

yeah... 
I have to put the head back on.
Send it to a mech.shop and had them machine the head to make higher CR not much, port and poilshed
and then i got a Eurojet header 
see what happens
guessing i'll have 
174-176hp








i'm thinking about neuspeed power pulley..



_Modified by 2.5_jetta_05 at 2:19 PM 12-9-2009_


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## david8814 (Aug 14, 2007)

Was it flowbenched?


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## DOQ fastlane (Feb 25, 2009)

*Re: (thygreyt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thygreyt* »_anyone else care to show their little mnsters???
fastlane?

You rang?








I wouldn't call anyone's 2.5L but Josh's (NLS) a monster..lol 
My last Dyno ran was In November, 169whp/188wtrq (2006 2.5L 150bhp). That was a slight improvement from my first run a few months back. The car feels faster than the numbers.. but the numbers are the real factor.
My Mods:
FK's Silverlines | Neuspeed front/rear sway bars | c2 93oct high flow tune | Carbonio CAI | NST power pulley | USP testpipe | Magnaflow catback | 6k HID | tinted tails | Reiger roof spoiler | euro boot lip trunk spoiler | RS4 reps | Lexan headlight covers (TMtuning) | Color matched side markers | 5mm H&R spacers | NLS short shifter | 42 draft shifter bushings | VF Pendelum mounts | Stage 1 BFI transmission mount | Tyrol Sport caliper bushings | Tyrol Sport SS o2 spacers | Hawk hps pads
Here are some pics & REV & DYNO video's to help your vision:
----------------
*Photos:*
















----------------
*Videos:*
Start up/Rev to 6k: http://www.flickr.com/photos/4...18063/
DYNO RUN: http://www.flickr.com/photos/4...69354/

_Modified by doqFastlane at 8:58 PM 12-10-2009_


_Modified by doqFastlane at 8:59 PM 12-10-2009_


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

ok.. so no monsters other than NLS... but still we are "small monsters..!"
lol.


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## rydaddyry (May 23, 2007)

*Re: (thygreyt)*

I was rocking a 75 shot of spray with no chip, magnaflow, test pipe and carbonio intake, pretty sure i was def hit over 200 whp....went through about 4 bottles of spray with no problems!!!!


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## Lt. Crash (Aug 27, 2007)

*Re: (rydaddyry)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rydaddyry* »_I was rocking a 75 shot of spray with no chip, went through about 4 bottles of spray with no problems!!!!

Bottles are for Babies


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: (Lt. Crash)*

cheater


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## rydaddyry (May 23, 2007)

*Re: (nothing-leaves-stock)*

yea but i was smoking semi worked 1.8t's at half the cost


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## BluMagic (Apr 9, 2008)

watch out for that honda 2000 with at least 100k under the hood.


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## rydaddyry (May 23, 2007)

*Re: (BluMagic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluMagic* »_watch out for that honda 2000 with at least 100k under the hood. 

haha i race for pinks haha


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## diduceme (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: (BluMagic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluMagic* »_watch out for that honda 2000 with at least 100k under the hood. 

I'll win. Then me and my dad can roll together when he gets out of prison. It's all good.


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## chezzestix (Nov 15, 2009)

I should have a dyno this week. I cant wait to see what this header puts down.


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## Lt. Crash (Aug 27, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_








maybe soon.
still waiting on new test cams and playing with intake and exhaust still.... rather not release numbers as we go thru the testing...just want a good final single number. won't stop till we get great results! like over 200








but it power peaks at 6200-6400 now. pulls to 8200 and doesn't drop power. kind of levels out but no drop 

Any progress with cams and dyno #'s?

_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_you DON"T need any upgrades for the valve train at all to rev that high.
cams and software? yup, valves and springs, rollers etc...no
both my car and C2's turbo is reving that EVERY day. and for while now. on mine? maybe 8-10,000 miles
NEITHER car with any issues


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_*Frequently Asked Questions*
*Q: What will this do for me/how will it help me?*
*A:*_ Based on experience gained from this motor, as past (i.e. - 20v 1.8T, 2.0T FSI, etc.), it can be said that the stock valvetrain will begin to fatigue when pushed in upwards of 6500 rpm. With the addition of Ferrea's valve springs, spring seats, Titanium retainers, and Lifter shims, you'll be able to successfully tackle 8500+rpm without failure._
*Q: So you are saying that stock parts can only reach rpm of 6500 safely and there are people that are going to 6800. Are you saying they will have engine problems after all this high rev fun?*
*A:*_ No, we're not saying that once you rev past 6500 rpm it's immediate failure. With the ratiings Volkswagen has put on their valvetrain components and along with the experience of past motors, we can say that anything upwards of 6500 will prove stressful for the stock valvetrain and potentially cause failure._


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Lt. Crash)*

funny how 2 cars...mine and C2's is running STOCK valvetrain and reving to 8200...daily. and i have about 8-10K on it that way. they have more PLUS they track thiers. not one single issue. haven't heard of anyone else having issues either.

the valve train and head setup in these cars are totally differnt then 1.8T, aba or a vr6.
waiting on new cam setup to come out. so, no, no new dyno specs yet, sorry.
but working on a few new "things" for the 2.5L










_Modified by nothing-leaves-stock at 11:52 AM 1-4-2010_


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## ender619 (Aug 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Ooooh i wonder what these 'THINGS' are :-D


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## 2ohgti (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (nothing-leaves-stock)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif cams and a "few things" will certainly help.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (2ohgti)*


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## 2008VW (Oct 3, 2008)

*Re: (Terrence901)*

how much roughly did you pay for those mods to your 2007 jetta?


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Lt. Crash)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_*Q: So you are saying that stock parts can only reach rpm of 6500 safely and there are people that are going to 6800. Are you saying they will have engine problems after all this high rev fun?
A:* No, we're not saying that once you rev past 6500 rpm it's immediate failure. With the ratiings Volkswagen has put on their valvetrain components and along with the experience of past motors, we can say that anything upwards of 6500 will prove stressful for the stock valvetrain and potentially cause failure.










What is this? Question is asked. It's answered with a no, but then is followed by basically a yes.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (MKVJET08)*

Proof is in a daily driver reving to 8200 and making power still up in the 7k range..... I love my mk5


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