# Water/methanol Injection install...



## DgonzTT (Oct 8, 2009)

Hey guys, Im coming up on a water/meth kit off a friend's car who's parting it out and i wanted to get ideas of where would be the quickest yet still effective way to install the kit. I'd seen in a pick of someone's TT before that they actually mounted the tank in the engine compartment and I like the idea BUT with the heat buildup in there wouldn't it defeat the purpose? 

Also, if anyone has a link to it DIY for this install that'd be great, i want to get all the info possible before jumping into this install. Thanx ahead for any help you guys can provide:thumbup:


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## alva8193 (May 13, 2009)

i used to have mine in the engine but the tank was too small and made my engine looked cluttered but was the most effective way, Methanol keeps a pretty constant temp and it worked great in my engine but now i have a much bigger tank and its in my trunk. If i lived closer i would help ya cuz me and a friend did mine and it came out lovely. Prolly best bang for the buck mod ever!


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## DgonzTT (Oct 8, 2009)

alva8193 said:


> i used to have mine in the engine but the tank was too small and made my engine looked cluttered but was the most effective way, Methanol keeps a pretty constant temp and it worked great in my engine but now i have a much bigger tank and its in my trunk. If i lived closer i would help ya cuz me and a friend did mine and it came out lovely. Prolly best bang for the buck mod ever!


 Aren't you down here on the weekends? If you're up for meeting me on sat morning/early afternoon lunch is on me! :beer: I could really use the help and guidance


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## alva8193 (May 13, 2009)

Pm me your # I'm gonna be down all weekend I got a condo on biscayne kinda by bayside is that close to u?


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## DgonzTT (Oct 8, 2009)

alva8193 said:


> Pm me your # I'm gonna be down all weekend I got a condo on biscayne kinda by bayside is that close to u?


Yea thats like 15min away depending on traffic on I-95... i catch palmetto(836) north to 95 and then go south and get off for downtown... Pm'ing my # now


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## DarthTTs (Dec 7, 2009)

alva8193 said:


> i used to have mine in the engine but the tank was too small and made my engine looked cluttered but was the most effective way, Methanol keeps a pretty constant temp and it worked great in my engine but now i have a much bigger tank and its in my trunk. If i lived closer i would help ya cuz me and a friend did mine and it came out lovely. Prolly best bang for the buck mod ever!


Even better than the tune? :sly:

What benefits ??


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## alva8193 (May 13, 2009)

Well along with the tune but i only paid $250 for my wm kit brand new its a snow performance, it allows you to advance timing thus lowering egt's and just making the car much faster, i gained 3mph in the 1/4 mile with just meth alone so im guessing thats a solid 30+whp gain. Also Methanol is known to help keep our valves clean since we all know fsi gets carbon build up


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## DarthTTs (Dec 7, 2009)

alva8193 said:


> Well along with the tune but i only paid $250 for my wm kit brand new its a snow performance, it allows you to advance timing thus lowering egt's and just making the car much faster, i gained 3mph in the 1/4 mile with just meth alone so im guessing thats a solid 30+whp gain. Also Methanol is known to help keep our valves clean since we all know fsi gets carbon build up


+30whp ???? 

Wow, thats really good. Advancing timing you mean with a Revo SPS?


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## Stevelev (Mar 4, 2004)

alva8193 said:


> ...Also Methanol is known to help keep our valves clean ...


Can you provide definitive proof ? Frankly, I followed many posts on the RS4 furum and thought I read that this was not proven and neither was using a catch can. (I am very familiar with FSI carbon buildup as my RS4 needed cleaning and was done under warranty).


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## alva8193 (May 13, 2009)

Stevelev said:


> Can you provide definitive proof ? Frankly, I followed many posts on the RS4 furum and thought I read that this was not proven and neither was using a catch can. (I am very familiar with FSI carbon buildup as my RS4 needed cleaning and was done under warranty).


Well i dont have tests/vids/pics but im sure if u take a dirty valve and let it sit in pure meth it will be clean after a bit, Methanol is a corrosive liquid so i wouldnt see why it wouldnt help if even a little it helps, the power benefits alone are worth it though. And Darth i gained that power without a sps it was just bolted up and gained which isnt usually typical but with the revo select and advancing timing there is more power to be had. Also if u dont have revo u can run a race gas map with pump gas and meth mixture because it burns around 116 octance iirc


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## Stevelev (Mar 4, 2004)

alva8193 said:


> Well i dont have tests/vids/pics but im sure if u take a dirty valve and let it sit in pure meth it will be clean after a bit, Methanol is a corrosive liquid so i wouldnt see why it wouldnt help if even a little it helps, the power benefits alone are worth it though. And Darth i gained that power without a sps it was just bolted up and gained which isnt usually typical but with the revo select and advancing timing there is more power to be had. Also if u dont have revo u can run a race gas map with pump gas and meth mixture because it burns around 116 octance iirc


Perhaps meth would reduce deposits or even help keep valves clean but my understanding is that "elbow grease" is the only thoing that will remove carbon deposits once baked on.

No question that the power gains are there and a nice bonus that the benefits are felt even without adjusting timing. :beer:


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## alva8193 (May 13, 2009)

Yea id say its definetely a step toward helping but "elbow grease" is definetely the only real answer, I plan on getting mine cleaned once i hit about 50k if they need it anyway do u mind if i ask how much u paid to clean the RS valves? Ive heard for the 2.0T its typically 200-300 which i think is well worth it


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## Stevelev (Mar 4, 2004)

alva8193 said:


> do u mind if i ask how much u paid to clean the RS valves? Ive heard for the 2.0T its typically 200-300 which i think is well worth it


$200-$300 sounds like a great deal since I've heard the RS is more than double that. Mine was free ! My local dealer took great care of me as I had a CEL and another cluster light (forgotten which). I was told the repair was approx. $1,500. due to replacement of flaps being required in addition to the cleaning. BTW, I had approx 40k miles (67,000 kms) and the valves had major deposits


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## DarthTTs (Dec 7, 2009)

alva8193 said:


> ..... And Darth i gained that power without a sps it was just bolted up and gained which isnt usually typical but with the revo select and advancing timing there is more power to be had. Also if u dont have revo u can run a race gas map with pump gas and meth mixture because it burns around 116 octance iirc


Great!

More reasons to keep my select+! I think this is great, I will consider this mod in my setup :beer:


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## DgonzTT (Oct 8, 2009)

I'll let you guys know how the install goes & if I really feel a difference even without the timming tuned. The plus is that it helps clean the motor aswell as give performance gains which is why I felt necessary to do this over putting the $ into a catch can:thumbup:


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## DarthTTs (Dec 7, 2009)

DgonzTT said:


> I'll let you guys know how the install goes & if I really feel a difference even without the timming tuned. The plus is that it helps clean the motor aswell as give performance gains which is why I felt necessary to do this over putting the $ into a catch can:thumbup:


PICs!


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## DgonzTT (Oct 8, 2009)

DarthTTs said:


> PICs!


Will do buddy don't worry:thumbup:


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## mattevandavis (Jun 15, 2006)

There is a ton of info on the benefits of Methanol all over the web. Snow does a good job of putting out info consistent with the rest of the web. Running the meth with out changing the tune is almost pointless. 

The whole reason is not the gain of the Octane, but the reduced risk of detonation. You can advance the tune very aggressively and not worry about destroying the engine. 

The other reason is the reduction in intake and exhaust temps. Its effect is basically the same if the meth is 100 deg or 10 deg. So it doesnt matter if you mount it in the engine bay or the trunk. (Though there is more room for a larger tank outside of the engine bay.

But you dont have to take my word for it.

http://www.snowperformance.net/faqs_type.php?type=gasoline


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## DgonzTT (Oct 8, 2009)

mattevandavis said:


> There is a ton of info on the benefits of Methanol all over the web. Snow does a good job of putting out info consistent with the rest of the web. Running the meth with out changing the tune is almost pointless.
> 
> The whole reason is not the gain of the Octane, but the reduced risk of detonation. You can advance the tune very aggressively and not worry about destroying the engine.
> 
> ...


:thumbup: Great info buddy.... actually the tank i've mounted in my engine compartment is a 1.5 Gal  what can i say, Im a G lol So far i have everything connected & mounted BUT the only snag i've hit is the boost pressure switch which seems to be bad because when connected as it needs to be, it simply give a constant flow of power to the tank rather than holding it until the appropriate psi is met


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## mattevandavis (Jun 15, 2006)

DgonzTT said:


> :thumbup: Great info buddy.... actually the tank i've mounted in my engine compartment is a 1.5 Gal  what can i say, Im a G lol So far i have everything connected & mounted BUT the only snag i've hit is the boost pressure switch which seems to be bad because when connected as it needs to be, it simply give a constant flow of power to the tank rather than holding it until the appropriate psi is met


 do you have a stage 2 kit? There is a controller that reads the boost pressure. 

If so do you have it connected to the MAP? The purple and gray wire going to the MAP should be connected to the boost wire.

Just for reference here is a diagram of the "Diode Mod" If you look the signal wire is the purple / gray.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1484504

Beyond that you need to make sure you have a cut off solenoid installed.

Im no expert, but I can point you to tons of research.


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## DgonzTT (Oct 8, 2009)

mattevandavis said:


> do you have a stage 2 kit? There is a controller that reads the boost pressure.
> 
> If so do you have it connected to the MAP? The purple and gray wire going to the MAP should be connected to the boost wire.
> 
> ...


I have a basic kit, with only the boost pressure switch controlling the pump's engaging & disengaging according to the psi i set the switch at... so pretty much, when connected, the switch is SUPPOSED to not allow flow of power until the amount of boost needed switches it on


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## mattevandavis (Jun 15, 2006)

*http://www.snowperformance.net/product_images/product_variation-installation_pdf-80.pdf*


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## mattevandavis (Jun 15, 2006)

DgonzTT said:


> I have a basic kit, with only the boost pressure switch controlling the pump's engaging & disengaging according to the psi i set the switch at... so pretty much, when connected, the switch is SUPPOSED to not allow flow of power until the amount of boost needed switches it on


I dont know about this kind of setup. Some have ran it successfully, but most shops and vendors will tell you that a stage 2 is best. you can buy the controller as an after thought from your MFG. You might look into it. When in doubt the guys at USRT seem to know their stuff. You might drop them a line.


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## [email protected] (Nov 3, 2008)

lately we have been installing water meth and using the windshield washer reservoir for the tank. On the dyno with a 2010 audi a4 2.0t, just using -20 windshield washer fluid we picked up 5 whp and about 18 wtq. the car did have a unitronic tune, but there was nothing special done for water meth. it did allow for the requested timing to be run without any pulls which unleased the true performance of the chip. Our fabrication department has been putting these kits on everything, and honestly it is really a night and day difference. water meth suppresses detonation, increases fuel mileage, and does help prolong the rate in which carbon is built up on the fsi cars. for those of you interested in this mod we carry and stock a lot of the snow performance parts. also we are well versed on the installations and can assist you via phone while doing an install. check out our catalog here. 

http://www.raimotorsport.com/category-s/13353.htm


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## DgonzTT (Oct 8, 2009)

-Ok ladies.... So here it is... again i had to do an engine compartment mount because i pick up produce for the family business from time to time and we all know we can used every inch of the little trunk space we already have:laugh:

-So here's an overall view, I was able to utilize the empty gap of space between the intake ram and the fuse box which was perfect for this 1.5gal tank measuring 8"W x 8"H x 11"L... Also, the pump is tank mounted as well leaving me plenty of room to work with and making the install not too bad with some answers to some of my questions provided by Alva(Pierre) here on the forum and Spike at Wolfcars. 




-The top hose is the boost tap leading to the boost pressure switch which activates the kit at the psi we set it at. 
-The bottom left hose with the silver exterior is the spray nozzle which i tapped into the rubber throttle body hose so that if need be i can remove this kit and simply replace this rubber hose costing alot less in the end. (WARNING: I was told that tapping here is dangerous as that if the inner connection piece for the nozzle got lose, it could get sucked into the throttle body and BYE BYE motor!) In order to avoid this i cut the hole about two sizes smaller than needed and fought the nozzle in so that it would be held in with plenty of pressure because when heated and cooled, the hose size expands and goes back to normal. Also, I used teflon tape throughout the kit and made sure that the spray nozzle connection was secured using the RED loc-tight which is heavy duty and heat resistant. 


-This here is a picture of the boost pressure switch. The hose that is tapped into the boost line in the above picture leads back to this switch. The top wire is the power supply which is coming from the fuse box inside the car, while the wire just under it is the positive wire from the kit's pump. As stated before, when the boost pressure reaches the psi we set the switch at, it will then open up the flow of power from the fuse to the pump's positive switch engaging the kit.


So that's pretty much it... Not the BEST looking setup but for me it's the most practical, it's out of sight either way with the hood close, and most of all it works... Again special thanks to Alva for meeting up with me and helping me by pointing me in the right direction and of course the guys at wolfcars for helping me as well and doing the tune on the car and setting the pressure on the boost pressure switch.:thumbup:


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## alva8193 (May 13, 2009)

No prob danny it came out good specially for your first meth install, i wish i coulda helped more or been there for the physical install but im still newish to meth myself. Any1 in south florida that needs work done the guys over at wolfcars will take great care of you there awesome! Danny now u gotta come visit me so we can hit up the track (pbir) and u can lay down some new personal best's


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## DgonzTT (Oct 8, 2009)

alva8193 said:


> No prob danny it came out good specially for your first meth install, i wish i coulda helped more or been there for the physical install but im still newish to meth myself. Any1 in south florida that needs work done the guys over at wolfcars will take great care of you there awesome! Danny now u gotta come visit me so we can hit up the track (pbir) and u can lay down some new personal best's



Most definitely, gotta grab Andy & Fafa too


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## DarthTTs (Dec 7, 2009)

Sooooo

What about gains? How do you feel the engine?? Do you have any remaps??! 

Argggghhh


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## DgonzTT (Oct 8, 2009)

DarthTTs said:


> Sooooo
> 
> What about gains? How do you feel the engine?? Do you have any remaps??!
> 
> Argggghhh


haha, well yes i definitely feel the difference! We changed the timing on my car but just one point because summer here in miami is unforgiving and its hot & humid air doesn't help, but still i can say that the car is picking up noticeably smoother and faster. I feel a slight gain in the low end and most definitely see it in the mid to upper range when on the highway. Come winter i'll be able to give myself one more point on timing and on boost as well. Also, idk if im just imagining it but it feels like im even doing better with my mpg's:what: possibly having to do with the change of timing on the car:sly:


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