# LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf?



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

???? it smells just like the exhaust....
could it be my valve stem seals?


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## Hugh Gordon (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*

That's what happened to mine, had a nice chunk of piston #4 burned away. Is it idling poorly? Have you done a compression test?


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## vdub speed (Dec 26, 2000)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Hugh Gordon)*

prob got cracked ring lands= motor is f'd


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (vdub speed)*

yeah it runs a little funny in the lower rpm's before boost. its a little rough, sounds kinda like an exhaust leak would, cept theres no exhaust leak....
smokes from the valve cover breather, crank case breather, and from the exhaust pretty bad....
how often is it that you can melt a piston and damage the block bad enough to where its un-usable?


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*

oh and this was after a timing advance....
on 91 octane, stacked gaskets and 15psi i was trying to run a 29-30deg advance throughout the rpm range


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## Hugh Gordon (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*

Yeah, that's pretty much what happened to me, I advanced the timing, then a couple of weeks later, lots of smoke. I managed to score my block pretty badly it would have required boring I think. That's a LOT of timing to be running on 91 as well....


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*

30deg from idle to 4k, 4-5k 29deg, 6k 30deg


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*

hmmm... find another $300 xflow or... a 1.8t for $600... or a... 1.8t+02m for $1500


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## Hugh Gordon (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*

Yeah, I was running probably 18 degrees at 20 psi, on 91 oct.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_oh and this was after a timing advance....
on 91 octane, stacked gaskets and 15psi i was trying to run a 29-30deg advance throughout the rpm range

dude you WERE detonating. (I am ABOLUTELY sure)








The longer you run it the more damage you can do.
gas is getting in the oil and this will KILL the bearings. (crank and cam)
I can't run over ~8-10 deg on a gasket motor on 93 octane
at ~15psi.
Sorry, live and learn.
Question: what posessed you try such a thing?
-Jeffrey Atwood


_Modified by Jefnes3 at 8:18 PM 8-27-2005_


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## mattstacks (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Jefnes3)*

I was thinking the same thing, unless you were just speaking of vaccum with timing retard by manifold pressure. 
do a compression test.


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (mattstacks)*

30 degrees of advance! NO RETARD with 15psi on 91..excuse me but...you gotta be [email protected]#$in kiddin me. Did you seriously think it wouldn't hurt the motor?
Even on c16 I retard the timing to 24 from 30 at 15psi. From reading I've heard people don't even make more power running full advance. at this boost level.
Like I always tell EVERYONE...
I'd rather make less horsepower and have a motor last then make the most horsepower for a couple minutes but have the motor broke.
Time for a rebuild...


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## Gtibunny20v (May 19, 2005)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (vdubspeed)*

Amazing...simply amazing.

I thought Wiz had tuned your car over the phone


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Gtibunny20v)*

haha


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Gtibunny20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gtibunny20v* »_Amazing...simply amazing.

I thought Wiz had tuned your car over the phone









I wonder how he got that reputation (Wiz)








-Jeff


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Jefnes3)*

WOW.....that's alot of timing.








Lemoore=Navy?


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Gtibunny20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gtibunny20v* »_Amazing...simply amazing.

I thought Wiz had tuned your car over the phone









no im borrowing arturo's map.... shoulda just left it alone....
the funny thing is that the plugs show no signs of detonation.... and the car ran freakin awesome like that....
i wish the motor would have given me some obvious sign that i was running way too much advance.
oh well, luckily i just broke the cheapest part under my hood (just about) which is just the block itself.... another $200 and a few days in the future i'll have another one to throw under there.
i cant wait to see the pistons when i pull them out


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_WOW.....that's alot of timing.








Lemoore=Navy?

yeah NAS is right over there.... but im an air natl. gaurdsman


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_i was trying to run a 29-30deg advance throughout the rpm range








...You gotta be kidding me.What timing were you pulling @ 6000?
Pull your dipstick out,If there is smoke coming out from it then you destroyed your ring lands.If you scored the block then bore it to 83.5mm and used the AEB head on it.

_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_I'd rather make less horsepower and have a motor last then make the most horsepower for a couple minutes but have the motor broke..

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## zornig (May 12, 2001)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_the funny thing is that the plugs show no signs of detonation.... 

do you know how to read plugs? 
you can bet theres signs of detonation on them.
on a better note ABA bottom ends are farily cheap so it wasnt a expensive mistake.



_Modified by zornig at 6:09 PM 8-28-2005_


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (zornig)*

the onlything with the plugs is that they are pretty oily... but i didnt notice any metal on them, or any pitting.... after cleaning the oil off they look perfectly fine


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## Gtibunny20v (May 19, 2005)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*

Post pics of the plugs, I bet they look horrible and you have no clue on how to read them.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Gtibunny20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gtibunny20v* »_...and you have no clue on how to read them.

Just like you and everyone else,He can easily learn.Maybe something good can come out of this thread. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Wizard-of-OD)*

man my roomate has her digital camera with him in long beach.... comes home later tonight i think
but the plugs are just oily and running a little rich... i tried scrubbing one of them to check for pitting or something else.......
i'll try to get those pics


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## Gtibunny20v (May 19, 2005)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Just like you and everyone else,He can easily learn.Maybe something good can come out of this thread. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Nobody said he couldnt learn. Hell, some monkeys can be taught to do simple math, maybe one day youll learn not to open your mouth when you're not being spoken to.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Gtibunny20v)*

take it easy guys... it doesnt say "cage fighting" or "flame people in this thread" in the title now does it?

anyways i've located a new motor, i might pick it up tomorrow its only about a half hour away... $200 for the block or $350 for a full motor....
might be nice to have a spair serp setup, alternator, and a head to work on...


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*

hey what are the chances of any damage to my head?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gtibunny20v* »_Nobody said he couldnt learn. Hell, some monkeys can be taught to do simple math

Seems from this

_Quote, originally posted by *Gtibunny20v* »_and you have no clue on how to read them.

and this 

_Quote, originally posted by *Gtibunny20v* »_Amazing...simply amazing.

That you are intent on being the forum toolbag.You rub in people's faces how much of an e-thug/pro-mechanic you are yet you and your "crew" cant do any better.

_Quote, originally posted by *Gtibunny20v* »_
maybe one day youll learn not to open your mouth when you're not being spoken to. 

You have yet to contribute positive to this thread,when will you realise that you do not own this forum.









_Quote, originally posted by *Gtibunny20v* »_I thought Wiz had tuned your car over the phone









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Gtibunny20v (May 19, 2005)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Wizard-of-OD)*

He most likely has no clue how to read them since he obviously has no clue how to make an ignition timing map.

I bring it up because he talks like hes doing it all right and when it goes wrong he doesnt know why.
What do you want me to contribute to this thread? Several other people including myself have tried to help him in the past and he still does what he wants. 

BTW: who is my crew?


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Gtibunny20v)*

i always just have to learn things the hard way....
and reading plugs is not rocket science, compared to a timing map anyways...
anyways im just here to live and learn...


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## Gtibunny20v (May 19, 2005)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*

A timing map isnt hard at all. Several people have posted timing maps for 8v's
If you want, I could post you a map to get you started.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Gtibunny20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gtibunny20v* »_If you want, I could post you a map to get you started.

That would be a great start to saving the thread. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Wizard-of-OD)*

yeah i've asked around for timing maps but it always turns into an sds vs. 034 efi thread and i never get a straight answer


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## Gtibunny20v (May 19, 2005)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*

send me your email addy in a PM, also, does 034 goes every 250rpm or 500rpm?


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Gtibunny20v)*

for timing? i think its every 1000rpm 
[email protected]


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*

That map was obviously for C16.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*

edit its for every 100rpm my bad


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## vfarren (Sep 11, 2000)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*

4ork, try following the advice I was giving you over on VWsport. For starters try 30 BTDC by 3000 rpm and then retard timing by 1 point for every pound of boost. This should get you started without blowing anything up, unles you are running high compression (which I think you are not). Also, run 93 octane if you can while you are tuning it. If you don't know how to read plugs yet there are a bunch of sources on the web. Just search.


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## automagp68 (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (vfarren)*

Interesting thread ahve come upon here
I got a question
i have a stage 2 eip 8valve kit on my mk4
according to my vag it says i have 14 to 17 degrees advanced timing at wide open.
Is this to much
if your at say like 5500 rpm but at only 30 percent throttle and the timing is at like 29 is that ok becasue ur not on the throttle or not
Or does timing always have to be pulled any where up top no matter what load or throttle you are under?
I am ahving issues with mine setup myself, including my computer pulling timing under acceleration untill u gett 90% throttle then it gives timeing back
I dunno
Any help would be great
sorry to ask in someone eles thread


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (automagp68)*

29deg at part throttle should be no problem, you're not making boost, making more power/load, so there's no need for retard.


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## vfarren (Sep 11, 2000)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (automagp68)*

You need a boost gauge. Try not to think about it as throttle, part throttle, boost, no boost. You need to think about it in terms of load, kPa or psi. That will guide you as to what advance setting you need. Low kPa and you want more advance, high kPa you need less advance. In normally aspirated cars, when they are at WOT they are reading 100 kPa and typically run 30+ degrees of timing (depends on size/efficiency of combustion chamber, air/fuel homogenization, compression, octane etc.). Once you go beyond that in kPa (boost) you need to start retarding your timing.
This is all fairly basic stuff. Pick up a good book and read it. I would add that the $20 investment in the book would likely have saved 4ork a few hundred dollars and some hours of his time.
A couple of authors worth looking into are:
Jeff Hartman
A. Graham Bell
It is funny how I keep repeating myself over and over. It is almost like no one listens
















_Quote, originally posted by *automagp68* »_Interesting thread ahve come upon here
I got a question
i have a stage 2 eip 8valve kit on my mk4
according to my vag it says i have 14 to 17 degrees advanced timing at wide open.
Is this to much
if your at say like 5500 rpm but at only 30 percent throttle and the timing is at like 29 is that ok becasue ur not on the throttle or not
Or does timing always have to be pulled any where up top no matter what load or throttle you are under?
I am ahving issues with mine setup myself, including my computer pulling timing under acceleration untill u gett 90% throttle then it gives timeing back
I dunno
Any help would be great
sorry to ask in someone eles thread


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## zornig (May 12, 2001)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (vfarren)*

Victor, Did you say something?


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## VRpoweredA2 (Oct 8, 2000)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (zornig)*

I think I have bad ringlands too and my car runs fine. Just alot of blow by now..no oil coming from the dipstick tube though


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (zornig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zornig* »_
do you know how to read plugs? 
you can bet theres signs of detonation on them.
on a better note ABA bottom ends are farily cheap so it wasnt a expensive mistake.
_Modified by zornig at 6:09 PM 8-28-2005_

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
live and learn. don't ever crank up timing on "butt dyno" or whatever, you need to tune it carefully, engines will typically make more power up to a certain point, then not make anymore after that, even though your adding mor etiming... thats when you have TOO MUCH... start safe, and work your way up, on the dyno, or at the track... not random timing adjustments on the street.


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## Hugh Gordon (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (fast_a2_20v)*

Yeah, I learned my lesson...


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## vfarren (Sep 11, 2000)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (zornig)*

LOL! You bastard!

_Quote, originally posted by *zornig* »_Victor, Did you say something?


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## broko (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (vfarren)*

Bumping this thread because I have a similar problem. few days ago I noticed my car started throwing whitish smoke from the valve cover breather. if I put my hand in front of it, I can feel moisture building up. 
It didn't do this the first month I had the car boosted but then I changed my injectors, and this started happening. motor feels very strong. should I just install a catch can to try getting rid of the smoke? or should i check the engine for failure? I'll post a vid tomorrow morning.


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## broko (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (broko)*

here's a video of whats happening. lots of smoke coming out of the valve cover breather. If I put my finger to plug it, i get smoke coming out of the tailpipe.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_yeah i've asked around for timing maps but it always turns into an sds vs. 034 efi thread and i never get a straight answer

Timing maps are timing maps....for the same engine combo they are a great starting point..
it has nothing to do with what system you are running...
Seems you learn like me.....well not that much timing....19deg at 24psi...that and an af ratio of 12.5 = burned the head clean through between cyl 3&4 head gasget as well.....
Now i have a wrist pin noise ofter replacing the head....
Dont car...still runs great and does not burn oil....
Word to the wise..EGT gauge...
I'll get my timing figures out of my car later


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
Timing maps are timing maps....for the same engine combo they are a great starting point..
it has nothing to do with what system you are running...
Seems you learn like me.....well not that much timing....19deg at 24psi...that and an af ratio of 12.5 = burned the head clean through between cyl 3&4 head gasget as well.....
Now i have a wrist pin noise ofter replacing the head....
Dont car...still runs great and does not burn oil....
Word to the wise..EGT gauge...
I'll get my timing figures out of my car later

Salsa did you just do this......?????
I would not have your A/F's that lean especially past 20psi (0-10psi no problem)..... we would like to keep our motor's running....
4ork.....You could PM those who are using 034, I would of told you that you will blow your motor, I could send you Ign maps etc.............
As long as you been around here you should of known where/who to find the answers to your questions... Gluck with your new block http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: LOTS of smoke coming from valve cover breather... wtf? (GTijoejoe)*

no that was before the head burning Experiance......
It's more like 12 af wise..and timing is 17 or 16 at full tilt.....still a little on the hot side...going to pull it back a deg.....but thats it.......


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