# Mk1 Rabbit 20v 1.8t swap.. build list



## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

I am brand new to the forums so please bare with me here as I make my first forum post! As it is right now I am planning on buying a 1979 Rabbit with a 1.5l diesel and 4 speed. Great on gas, terrible for speed though and who doesn't like going fast? Anyways, I am having thoughts on driving the car around and just having fun learning about cars as this is also my first project or "fixer upper" car. I wanted to start off with something older and mechanical for starting off to avoid as much wiring as possible (I prefer a carburated rabbit but mechanical fuel injection doesn't sound horrible.)
Few facts about the car: 50k the odometer reads, owner isnt 100% sure if that is correct or not. Runs and drives though and shifts fine, he's asking $700 with a clean title in hand, and theres no rust on the frame but some on the body and paint ANYWAYS TO THE POSSIBLE FUTURE BUILD..

Here is what i am hoping for the car to become one day once i get tired of the 1.5l or it goes out..

Goals: 200-ish whp with reliability (not burning through transmissions or clutches, only tires)

Car right now: Brown 1979 Rabbit. Clean title. 50k-ish miles if odometer correct. 1.5l diesel. Interior needs cleaning and brakes needing work. Clean title the guy has it in hand. 4 speed. No structural rust. The owner is asking $700. (Sounds fair to me?)

Engine:
-20v 1.8t with an 058 block (forged crankshaft if I am correct?) and ABA head (heard they flowed best, correct me if wrong)
Questions about this engine setup first off are is if the ABA head will just mount to the 058 block without needing to do anything to the block or headbolts (they're 11mm if i'm correct?)
Shouldnt the 058 block mount to stock mk1 engine mounts to? Looking to do the least amount of fabrication as possible. if possible, none at all.
-Regular internals, nothing forged.
-The head is fine as is, no modifications.

Transmission:
-Thinking 02A or 02J? I don't know the differences between the two, I am curious if the transmissions will fit with the 058 block.
- G60 or Vr6 clutch. Preferring Vr6 with vr6 Pressure plate i think (Once more, would this work with 02J/A?)
Questions: Will the transmission fit with the driveline/driveshaft of the mk1 rabbit? I thought i read somewhere all that was needed was a different flange and it should fit normally with g60 transmission mounts? (Sorry for not knowing terms, still new)

Suspension:
Havent looked into this much and dont know the components of suspension. Just thinking coil overs, haven't looked into brands or options. Recommendations are great!

Wiring: This is the absolute most terrifying part for me, not only have i heard that wiring is a PITA but on Volkswagens specifically, it's even worse. I do have connections to those who have worked on cars much more then me, specifically Volkswagens, but haven't developed those connections very well yet.
- I am guessing to just throw out the old mk1 wires or harness or whatever electrical it has in there and use a harness from a passat or an ABA harness? Would splicing need to be done other then extensions such as would i have to convert plugs over to work with the 02A/J I understand wire lengths may need to be altered.

Those are the only components of the car that have crossed my mind for this swap needed to be done. If i missed anything please let me know. My guess for cost is about $3k if perfect (lol yeah right) but more realistically $4k, not including price of car.

Let me know what i need to figure out, am missing, or any info i should know! Thanks! I will be back here much more often for advice!


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Hey! 

There are lots of Mk1 20V swap threads out there that cover LOTS of it... But I'm going to assume that you're running an 058 block that its an AEB engine, correct?

Moving along, 

yeah, You can use all the same mounts that are in the car to get it between the frame rails. 

Transmission, The 02A is from the Mk3/B3/B4 passat/corrado... While the 02J is from the MK4 Jetta/golf/etc. 
Honestly, they're basically the same transmission and and they require the same mods to get them to work in the chassis. 

There are bolt in conversion kits available for 02A/J swaps in Mk1's, As well as cable clutch conversions using some eurovan goodies so you don't need to convert to hydroponic. 
As an example check out NothingLeavesStocks website for some offerings. 

G60/VR6 combo would be more than enough for that style setup and would work perfectly with all of the above.

edit: I have a 1980 Cabby with a AWP 1.8T in it sporting an 02A, so basically the same setup you've listed.


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

Thanks a ton! Looking into it more I am wanting to do an 06A block with the forged crank, ABA head, and an 02J Transmission which I read needs a 110m flange but the mk1 driveshaft is 100mm so a make-shift piece would be needed but seems common. I want to stick with a 1.8t because of how much lighter it is, with a vr6 it seems you would get massive understeer and fitting a bigger engine just sounds more difficult. Does this all check out to be able to bolt together? ABA/06A with 02J tranny? Aftermarket transmission mounts but oem engine mounts and just a flange for the tranny to work with the driveshaft?


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

You dont have the engine yet?

Also, the ABA is a 2.0L 8V, Not a 20V turbo motor 

edit: also check out: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2324626


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

I do not have the engine yet! I am planning for future on what to build. And I thought it was okay to use the aba for the heads and then a different block (one with a forged crank) so that it became a 20v 1.8t? I would preferably want a short block from an engine with a forged crank and that came oem with a turbo


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

What are your goals?

if you're only aiming for 200HP, thats only +20HP from stock....


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

Yeah about 200whp. I just want to be able to spin the tires when I choose to. Thinking with the 20v, just an exhaust, better intake manifold, cold air intake, little bit bigger injectors, maybe a camshaft, that should put me at the 200whp? I wanna make it a reliable power that's fun. I am hoping to be able to make it so I don't need to turn the boost up even though I plan on a metal head gasket with arp head studs.


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Honestly, you don't need to change a single part...

You'll need to get the ecu's anti theft ( immo ) removed to be able to use it in your swap, you may as well get it chipped at the same time.


These engines are stout, they have forged crankshafts and poisons stock along with metal head gaskets. 
The engine is perfectly happy and reliable until 300 WHEEL torque, at that point the stock connecting rods become the weak point. 

All of mine are stage 2 or higher, and that's 245hp by 275ftlbs on stock everything minus diverter, and exhaust. 

Just relax, you don't need to go a crazy build with what your after...


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

Oh really? That's impressive for the internals. I'm used to owning JDM cars where you add 50 hp and you start pushing your luck with reliability.
I just realized I wanted to do a 2.0t this entire time to. I've never sat in a fwd with 200whp though so that's a rough estimate on what I'm going for.. more power never hurt


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## TMakrop (Sep 18, 2015)

Those little 1.5's wont get out of its own way lol ... But Why not just go with an 2L ABA on boost ?? That is plenty fun in a mk1 platform. If this is your first Vw build/project keep it simple. Find a donor mk3 for motor, wiring, & miscellaneous stuff, get a hold of a solid 9A trans, throw some boost at it and have fun. I've personally had and have seen aba bottoms handle some serious power when done right & haven't had one in a mk1 that didn't break loose when I wanted to. Just my opinion, seems like you're going a little too into something that can be done at a fraction of the cost, time, and headache. 

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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Id recommend visiting the hybrid swap forums. 

I think you are confusing a few different swaps that people do with the 20v. Some people put AEB heads on. These are big port. Only came on 058 blocks. They can easily be installed on 06A. 

For older cars some used to use a ABA 058 bottom end. This would change the rod ratio. It will require custom parts. 

I would either install an AEB motor (stock mounts used)

Or

06A setup and use the custom mounts.


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

TMakrop said:


> Those little 1.5's wont get out of its own way lol ... But Why not just go with an 2L ABA on boost ?? That is plenty fun in a mk1 platform. If this is your first Vw build/project keep it simple. Find a donor mk3 for motor, wiring, & miscellaneous stuff, get a hold of a solid 9A trans, throw some boost at it and have fun. I've personally had and have seen aba bottoms handle some serious power when done right & haven't had one in a mk1 that didn't break loose when I wanted to. Just my opinion, seems like you're going a little too into something that can be done at a fraction of the cost, time, and headache.
> 
> Sent from my Z987 using Tapatalk


Opinions are appreciated! All the different engine codes are seriously confusing. Theres so many options, and I thought that what I was trying to do would be as simple as any other swap. I'd like to have a 2.0t with whatever transmission bolts on, and engine mounts that I could buy or use oem. I'm not looking to fabricate. I have no idea what to expect from a 1.5l. I don't expect to be able to get up to the speed limit though.


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

bonesaw said:


> Id recommend visiting the hybrid swap forums.
> 
> I think you are confusing a few different swaps that people do with the 20v. Some people put AEB heads on. These are big port. Only came on 058 blocks. They can easily be installed on 06A.
> 
> ...


I would like to refrain from using custom parts as much as possible. As in no fabricating, if it's a custom part that can be bought then that I'm okay with. But help me understand something. Didn't the 20v head only come from AEB engines? But that 20v AEB head is interchangeable with pretty much any shortblock? Including the 1.8t (AEB/AWA/AWP right?) And 2.0t (ABA?) All these engine codes are hard to learn the differences between them. I'm used to "you can use this engine, or this engine, no hybrids and no transmissions from other cars"


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## TMakrop (Sep 18, 2015)

We all start somewhere! Best advice though like bonesaw said, do some homework in the hybrid/swap section. Mk1's are real fun with any swap but again if its your first Vw project and want a straight forward swap.. Mk3 ABA is your best bet. They're a dime a dozen and can take a pounding

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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

Is the mk3 ABA a 1.8 or 2.0? And is it a stock turbo? With a 5 speed? Also are they electronically fuel injected? I would like to do a simple fun swap that's not gonna bust the wallet or my balls to get it working.


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## TMakrop (Sep 18, 2015)

Aeb 20v's came on the 058 block (external water pump/serp belt driven) where as the other 20v's were 06A (timing belt driven water pump)

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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

TMakrop said:


> Aeb 20v's came on the 058 block (external water pump/serp belt driven) where as the other 20v's were 06A (timing belt driven water pump)
> 
> Sent from my Z987 using Tapatalk


This is making more sense now. The 06A and 058 block both came with the 20v heads from the factory but there were slight differences so they got different names. Thanks, this is really helpful. 

You're reccomendation however is to get a donor mk3 with an aba engine and just swap all that over to the mk1?


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## TMakrop (Sep 18, 2015)

Mk3 aba is 2.0 8v non turbo efi very simplified swap, pretty forgiving as far tinkering with it, & IMO the cheapest compared to all the other swap options. 

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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

TMakrop said:


> Mk3 aba is 2.0 8v non turbo efi very simplified swap, pretty forgiving as far tinkering with it, & IMO the cheapest compared to all the other swap options.
> 
> Sent from my Z987 using Tapatalk


Won't I have to prep the engine for a turbo then by giving it better headstuds, different headgasket, and just converting all the piping and an intercooler and such? Is there any 2.0s that came from the factory with a turbo? I could put the 20v AEB head on though still, correct?


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## TMakrop (Sep 18, 2015)

All depending on the amount of boost you run but never a bad thing to do head studs, head gasket, etc. None of the 2L 8vs came turbo'd & you'll have to change a few things internally and tuning (and $$) to get the 20v head on there running. You really don't have to go all out to have fun in a mk1 honestly

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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

So i was talking to a friend and he said basically use an engine with an 058 block (He explained to me all engines previous to mk4 had an 058 block) and to start off simply, get a 2.0 16v or a 1.8 16v then turbo it down the road if i chose to. And dont get a mk4 1.8t because of all of the wiring and such i assumed, basically i was told a mk3 engine would be the most simple and probably not super expensive. Since im tight on space and dont have room for a donor car I'd have to buy pieces separately. So my question now is if it's possible to swap a 20v head on a 058 block without modifications? As well as can i turbo the 2.0?


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Start saving money, no matter what you do the fact of the matter is that even today people continue to forget that swaps done 10 or 12 years ago are no longer that young. MK3 is now 20 years old and those swaps are going to cost you thousands of dollars because you're going to have to do over the long-term maintenance and repairs. The best thing to do would be have a prepared idea, not a plan, and $10,000 no joke.

Awp is the way to go. Just software will meet you 200whp and more as you'll need to do an exhaust and intercooling upgrades. You can use the mk1 manual trans but I'd recommend an fx300 clutch setup and a diff if you want to do as little custom and more drop in. 

Too often people are stuck with how they did the swap for aba 8-15 years ago, and parts are note nla and the engines are old and high mileage. 20v is more abundant and has the largest parts market ever for a vw engine besides air cooled.


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

Vegeta Gti said:


> Start saving money, no matter what you do the fact of the matter is that even today people continue to forget that swaps done 10 or 12 years ago are no longer that young. MK3 is now 20 years old and those swaps are going to cost you thousands of dollars because you're going to have to do over the long-term maintenance and repairs. The best thing to do would be have a prepared idea, not a plan, and $10,000 no joke.
> 
> Awp is the way to go. Just software will meet you 200whp and more as you'll need to do an exhaust and intercooling upgrades. You can use the mk1 manual trans but I'd recommend an fx300 clutch setup and a diff if you want to do as little custom and more drop in.
> 
> Too often people are stuck with how they did the swap for aba 8-15 years ago, and parts are note nla and the engines are old and high mileage. 20v is more abundant and has the largest parts market ever for a vw engine besides air cooled.


Didnt the 20v only ever come on the 1.8 engine? This car isnt and wouldn't be meant to be a daily driver. But Im pretty sure if you buy an engine thats been built, as in crank, rod, pistons, and the 20v head, thats practically a new engine? The block is old but with new pistons is (supposed to be) rehoned and shaped. And i am trying to prepare an idea, that is literally this entire post. Is trying to figure out what i want, and what is best, and easiest. I am doubting 10,000 for a swap. 10,000 over years? Sure thats probably true. But initially and up front to get the car running isnt gonna require 10k. If youre talking about when the car engine needs to be rebuilt then that costs a bit but it'll last you years and years afterwards internally. You'll have to do regular oil, timing belt, injectors, hoses and clamps and that basic stuff. But valves dont need replacing every year, or engine blocks, or engine heads. Even turbos last you quite a long time. This isn't a daily driver.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

I'm talking about the aba, the 1.8t 20v was released in 96. But aeb is junk. Awp is superior.


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

Yeah I'm confused. I don't know the difference between aeb and awp.


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

List to everyone in this thread. Most of us have been there. Just buy the best example AWP donor you can afford. Reflash+ intake/exhaust. Be done and enjoy. At this point don't even worry about the different between AEB/ABA etc... All you need to know is AWP.


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

Sadly no room for a donor car so I am buying piece by piece. I understand it's more expensive usually but it's my only option. Is the AWP a 2.0 16v? I thought the 9A was the 2.0 16v..

Oh and I am trying to understand the engine codes since I'm buying the engine by itself, I wanna make sure that I get one that's decent.


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## TMakrop (Sep 18, 2015)

Awp = 1.8 20v. 

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## TMakrop (Sep 18, 2015)

Check out the stickies tab at the top of page. Take your time. Read, research, search, & read some more. Keep it simple, the right combo of a few parts goes along way. 

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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

So confusing. What's the engine code for the 2.0 16v? I don't want an engine from a mk4 or later, keep it to the 058 block (mk3 or older)


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

9A. But this is not the forum for that. You should do some more research and then post in hybrid swap forum.


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

Trust me.. Im trying to do research lol.. I am absolutely brand new to gas-volkswagens and this stuff is confusing.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Another failed 20v swap thread


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Pics for success(lol)


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

Good job on the build. But that's not helpful for me. And saying stuff is failed isn't helpful either, so thanks for the pessimism. As I said Before, im brand new, have patience. Everyone starts somewhere and you didn't start knowing how to build a 20v 2.0t engine swapped into a foreign car.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

The problem is there is plenty of information on this message board. When you do some research you will find all the answers. Some of us are really jaded as we answer these questions literally every week. I will also reiterate again, this is not really the place for this discussion. This forum is for 1.8T technical info. For info related to swaps and other motors should be taken into hybrid/swap forum or the appropriate engine forum.


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

Okay. As said before. Brand new. Wanted to put a 1.8t motor in. Figured the 1.8t engine forum would be where to do especially when asking about techemical info such as what blocks are what and what heads work with which blocks.


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

halchka99 said:


> List to everyone in this thread. Most of us have been there. Just buy the best example AWP donor you can afford. Reflash+ intake/exhaust. Be done and enjoy. At this point don't even worry about the different between AEB/ABA etc... All you need to know is AWP.


Quoted for truth, 

If you don't want to buy a donor, then buy a swap.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Just finished an AWP swap into a buddies mk2, with 02J. Extremely fun car with stage 2 chip. Very basic setup, FMIC, exhaust, forge TIP, upgraded DV. Only thing i wish we did was put a better clutch in the car. We got bright idea to use used TDI clutch. Installing Peloquin and Clutchmaster setup in the coming weeks. Some times its nice to just use the KISS method.


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

bonesaw said:


> Just finished an AWP swap into a buddies mk2, with 02J. Extremely fun car with stage 2 chip. Very basic setup, FMIC, exhaust, forge TIP, upgraded DV. Only thing i wish we did was put a better clutch in the car. We got bright idea to use used TDI clutch. Installing Peloquin and Clutchmaster setup in the coming weeks. Some times its nice to just use the KISS method.


May I ask what the KISS method is?


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Keep it simple s*upid.


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## TMakrop (Sep 18, 2015)

Brystephor said:


> May I ask what the KISS method is?


Keep It Simple Stupid


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## Forcedfedbug (May 22, 2013)

*KISS*

And the nicer non tex way of saying:

Keep It Stupid Simple

Ron


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

The same thing had been said repeatedly in this thread and you don't need to pay at all. Search. If you say you have you're blatantly lying. there are tons of posts over the last 16 years about this swap. 

Here, sub forums, and Google.


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

After consideration, just going with an aeb engine. Need something from the mk3 car and an 058 block. Anything mk4 or newer is gonna have a ton of wiring that I don't know how to do.

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## TMakrop (Sep 18, 2015)

😒🔫

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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

It's a 1.8t, which works for me since I'm not looking for huge power, just fun. 200whp should be relatively easy to get with an aeb. Although I am looking at a 2.0 8V stroker engine but that's besides the point

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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

AEB is same amount of wiring as newer mk4 1.8T AWP. Newer have advantage of better chip tunes and wideband sensor. 

No mk3 have AEB. They came from Audi and Passat. This is a 1.8L Turbo 20v motor

Mk3 came with 2.0L 8v ABA or 2.8L 12v AAA VR6


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

I'm going mk2 then with a 9A or PL engine! 16v 2.0 or 1.8 that should be really simple to swap in and cheap-ish.

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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Def ticks a few of those boxes. Any swap will need wiring. With the older cars things don't just plug in.


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

bonesaw said:


> Def ticks a few of those boxes. Any swap will need wiring. With the older cars things don't just plug in.


I know they don't. But obviously there is gonna be way less wiring swapping a 9A or PL in compared to a mk4 1.8t

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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Isn't that where you can pay to play? 

There are CE2 Converaion harnesses, I'm sure someone makes it for CE1.


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

AmIdYfReAk said:


> Isn't that where you can pay to play?
> 
> There are CE2 Converaion harnesses, I'm sure someone makes it for CE1.


I wouldn't know. I'm not sure on what the difference between ce1 and ce2 is. No matter what though I'll probably end up buying a harness that'll work and not splicing one. 

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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

ce2 is a standard across 93-99 VW with exception of cabriolets. Ce1 is anything prior to 93. Early are different from late. Jetta different from golf. Us different from German. Most of the connectors are not available. Most likely you will be splicing. It may only be power, switched ignition, ground, etc.


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

Oh okay. Well. The rabbit I looked at was a bust today. Diesel was leaking out if the injectors. Where you put coolant was squirting boiling liquid out. It was burning oil. 3 inches of water on passenger side and floorboards started to rust. Smelled like mold. Only could be bump started. It was horrible.
So on to a 1983 gti.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Welcome to mk1's. 

You better **** money daily lol


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## Brystephor (Feb 5, 2016)

I didn't buy it lol. And mk1's are cheap. This one was just meant to be sent to the junkyard

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