# CEL CODE: EVAP System: Large Leak Detected anyone?



## atxmatt (Jan 19, 2004)

I need help in searching for what the problem is with my 2001 jetta.
My friend scanned the code for me and this is what i got:
The CEL has been on for awhile but i ignored it since the car runs normal but it used to be a small leak, now its a large leak. Local auto store told me it was the gas cap, i replaced it, CEL still on. Has to do with emission evaporation system? Fuel?
Thanks in advance.
VAG-COM Scanned:
2 Faults Found:
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low
P1602 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
16839 - EVAP System: Large Leak Detected
P0455 - 35-00 - -
Readiness: 0000 0000


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## penclnck (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: CEL CODE: EVAP System: Large Leak Detected anyone? (atxmatt)*

EVAP leaks are most commonly caused by loose gas caps from where people sort of forget to secure then when they fill up. Gas caps can also go bad and cause the very problem you have. Easy way to test the gas cap is to take one from a known good cap from another same body style VW and put it on your car then go 01-04-071. If it fails the test, then you've got other issues and to be honest, tracing them can be a bit tricky.
When I get EVAP issues that are not caused by gas cap issues, I've got a "smoke machine" that allows me to pressure charge the gas tank with ?argon? gas and some sort of smoke. I then look for where smoke is leaking out. I've seen twice, in the same week, where rodents have chewed on the vent lines that run across the top of the gas tank. I've found damaged charcol canistors, bad purge valves, ect ect ect....
Try this, take a pair of locking pliers, open up the hook and on the passenger side there will be a round valve that has a wiring harness going to it, one of the rubber hoses coming off of it will go to the intake. Clamp the rubber hose between the valve and intake and perform the 01-04-71 test and if it passes, then replace that valve.
Every thing else I can think of pretty much involves pumping smoke and looking for the visual smoke leak.


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## atxmatt (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: CEL CODE: EVAP System: Large Leak Detected anyone? (penclnck)*

thanks a lot man i'll look into that, but i know its not the gas cap i already replaced it awhile back, the problem still persists.


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## gimik (Jan 30, 2005)

i am currently getting this code on my 02 Audi A4 (B6/AMB) in combination with a lambda oxygen sensor error (DTC 17511). my car has trouble starting after i fill up at the gas station, but has no problems after that first start.
a dealer i took it to said they pinpointed a leak at the LDP (leak detection pump) using a smoke system and that the pump needed to be replaced. i replaced this part today but still have the error codes and the starting issue.
sorry no solution yet, i'll let you know if i learn anything new.


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: (gimik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gimik* »_... leak at the LDP (leak detection pump) using a smoke system and that the pump needed to be replaced. i replaced this part today but still have the error codes and the starting issue.

Man! Deja vu all over again. I have the same code and problem with a 1999 beetle. I replaced the LDP and canister, and all of the vacuum hoses under the hood, and still the same stupid problem. In addition, I sometimes get a 'too lean' code. This is the latest manifestation of a problem I've been chasing for the last year without any luck.
When the failure to start after fill up thing happened, my first codes were for O2 sensors, and a faulty MAF. Replaced these, and the logged readings are still screwed up, and the car still failed to start after filling up. A short while later, the hard vacuum tubes for the brake booster cracked. I replaced these lines, and then it was throwing codes for a faulty airflow in the secondary air injection system. I found that fixing the brake booster vacuum lines caused the other "soft" vacuum lines to fail, so I replaced them. Now I get the "Large Leak Detected" code, and I can't find the stupid leak anywhere.
I have to find this stupid leak, because now I have to pass emissions testing. Thrown code = no pass.
-- Len


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: (LenE)*

OK, I just tried the vise-grip to the vacuum line trick to see if the N-80 solenoid valve is leaking, and the problem still exists.
Funny thing is that I had two new codes waiting for me before I even got to the vise-grip trial. Now I get an "Idle adaptation limit exceeded" and a code for failure of the first O2 sensor. I just replaced this O2 sensor about 10k miles ago.








Anyway, I think my problem is narrowed down to the gravity valve in the filler neck, and the diverter valve immediately after. I'll check those out tonight and report what I find out. I hope I can get into them without removing the whole stupid rear fender or the gas tank. I'm not wild about going back in to that wheel well yet again.
-- Len


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: (LenE)*

I'm now getting the same CEL large leak detected. I had been getting the small leak error for a long time but no CEL. I did the new gas cap trick and tightening it but to no avail. What a stupid system! I guess this weekend I'll be pulling the rear wheel and the intake box and checking lines and valves, too.
It's a wonder that they can sell VW's at all. I guess we just love misery as a group. We all love a challenge and these Kraut machines provide that challenge.


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: (tjnamtiw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tjnamtiw* »_... I did the new gas cap trick and tightening it but to no avail.

I should have mentioned that I did that too. It is disheartening that the vast majority of the advice for this problem is to tighten the gas cap or replace it. I would bet that this isn't the problem for the vast majority of incidences of this code, but this is the easiest suggestion for a fix.
For once, I would like to see someone knowledgeable on the board who was able to track this problem down to a culprit other than the gas cap. I don't have a smoke machine, and my local dealer is deaf, dumb, and blind when it comes to listening to customers or finding and fixing problems on both my VW and my Audi.








Oh well. I dive into my rear passenger fender tonight, and hopefully find a faulty valve or bad O-ring. Wish me luck.
-- Len


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: (LenE)*

Very well said! 
One troubleshooting solution to eliminate the valves and lines at the rear of the car would be to possibly take the line coming from the pump that goes to the tank area and plug it. That way you are just checking the components up front. Will that work? I don't know but it should. 
If you still get the error code after testing with VagCom, then eliminate one thing at a time up front. 
If you don't get the error code, then the problem is out back. Then ask yourself - self, do I want to screw with this anymore or do I just leave the plug in there?


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: (tjnamtiw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tjnamtiw* »_Very well said! 
One troubleshooting solution to eliminate the valves and lines at the rear of the car would be to possibly take the line coming from the pump that goes to the tank area and plug it. That way you are just checking the components up front. Will that work? 

Unfortunately, no. I think the reed sensor is up front on the passenger fenderwell. Blocking the tubes at the rear only makes it fail the test and burn up the leak detection pump. Actually, the pump will be stopped in about a minute if the test fails, so this won't be a problem, but it will continue to test about every five minutes or so while you are driving.
-- Len


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: (LenE)*

Hmmmm. It was just a thought. From the Bentley, it says that it pressurizes the system and looks to make sure the pressure remains for some period of time set by a timer. It doesn't say what senses the pressure, though. Could it be the reed switch you are talking about? If we plugged the line to the tank, then the pressure would remain and the test should be good, not bad. 
The pump runs from vacuum supplied by the manifold, which might explain an occassional rough idle after startup, if the pump is bad or the line to it is bad.
I'm with you that there has to be some other common fault instead of the 'loose gas cap' syndrome.


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## gimik (Jan 30, 2005)

*Re: (LenE)*

i still have this persistent CEL and have just grown to live with it for now.. i'm just hoping the hard start after a fillup isn't causing any real damage other than the wear on the starter.

anyway--do you know whether or not your issue is related to the carbon cannister or the cannister valve? when i was investigating my problem a couple months ago the only real lead i found was a post regarding a 99 passat that had the exact same "hard start after gas fillup" issue. it turned out his valve was jacked due to persistent overfilling at the gas station.
here's the post i saved:
"I had the gas-pumping problem about a year after I had the car (purchased with already 20K miles) and the car had about 40K miles. The problem is with the "Chaulkacal Canister" (spelling uncertain). I took it to several places before a German repair shop came up with that diagnosis. However, they had to order the part and never did. I eventually took it to the dealer and mentioned what the other mechanic had told me. The dealership knew the problem right away. It seems that the design calls for the "Chaulkacal" canister to be a pressure relief operator when putting in fuel. It should allow only vapor to be released to relieve vapor pressure, but if the canister is defective, it starts to allow liquid fuel to flow into the system, which chokes the car. This is why you have to press the gas and rev the vehicle. I remember the night I first had the problem. It was on the way home from a vacation trip and I "topped it off" to try to squeeze more gas in the tank. Bad idea! 
I think the repair at the dealership was somewhere around $450, but it has been a while. The part was about $150 and $300 for the labor."


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: (gimik)*

I think the "top-off" thing is what is happening to my car. When we moved up to NY, and found that gas was about $0.25 more per gallon, we started to top-off the tank on trips back from visiting family in Pennsylvania. You're right, bad idea.
My boss, who formerly owned a small service station, told me about cars with charcoal canisters filled with gas from topping off. Coincidentally, the EVAP canister holds just about a gallon of fuel, which is just about the amount we could squeeze in after the automatic shut-off tripped on the gas pump.
I replaced the canister with the attached leak detection pump (electric powered) and stopped with topping-off a while ago. Unfortunately the starting issue is still there. I was going to pull the gravity valve out last night, but weather (too cold) and my daughter (not feeling well) conspired against me. Hopefully I'll get to it in the next few days.
-- Len


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: (tjnamtiw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tjnamtiw* »_If we plugged the line to the tank, then the pressure would remain and the test should be good, not bad.

Not quite. The pressure would be atmospheric in the lines, and the test looks for 30 millibars above atmospheric. There actually are a lot of conditions required for the 071 test, and starting at atmospheric and increasing to the 30 millibar are part of it. If you fail the test, you have to uncap the gas tank and re-cap, to return the system to atmospheric pressure.

_Quote, originally posted by *tjnamtiw* »_The pump runs from vacuum supplied by the manifold, which might explain an occassional rough idle after startup, if the pump is bad or the line to it is bad.
I'm with you that there has to be some other common fault instead of the 'loose gas cap' syndrome.

Maybe on the Mk. III cars, but the Mk. IV cars like the new beetle use an electric pump that is attached to the EVAP canister in the passenger rear wheelwell. Although I haven't gotten in to find out yet, I have a suspicion that the gravity valve or the diverter valve (right after it) is the culprit. If I'm right, I'll post pictures.
-- Len


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: (LenE)*

Yea, the MkIII are different. Vacuum runs the pump, which is located near the firewall on the passenger side.


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*What did I find?*

So I dug in trying to find the elusive EVAP Large Leak in the rear passenger fender. As per my earlier post, I think I've narrowed it down to the cluster of valves in the rear fender that deal with fuel overflow and other related issues.
I'm sick of jacking the car up, removing the rear wheel and wheel-well liner, so this time I thought I'd go the easy route by removing the tail light and the fuel filler cover. With these two removed, I can see most of the valves that I'm interested in. I also see that my car does not match the illustrations in the Bentley manual, but the components and their connections while different, perform the same job.
Since I now suspect that my problem is due to topping off the tank a few too many times, I first want to verify the changeover valve, pictured below.








The sum of the removal instructions from the manual are "unclip sideways out of support." Sounds simple enough. I wiggle the valve a little to see how tight it is. I hear the distinctive sound of dried and hardened O-rings rubbing on plastic. I may have found my leak.








So I pull on the valve and .... CRACK! Oops.








Well, I definitely have to change this valve now. Upon removal of the rest of the valve, in several pieces, it is clear that exposure to gasoline and gasoline vapors has taken a toll on the plastic. The valve itself appears to be made of several pieces of cast nylon, which had oxidized and become brittle. All of the external O-rings were hardened, and the two closest to the outside had some white gunk on them that I couldn't identify.








So now I have to replace this part, and I found that I cannot test or verify the other valves tucked under the fender, as I would have to destroy the tubing to remove them for testing.
-- Len


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: What did I find? (LenE)*

One other thing. I realized that I may not have eliminated the N80 solenoid valve from the list of suspect components. I traced the lines in the engine compartment to a solenoid valve that was over the right fenderwell, but this was the right fenderwell as I was looking at it. I have since traced the second evap line to the real N80 solenoid on the car's right fenderwell, which is the passenger side








After I replace the changeover valve, I'm going to back up and check this valve with the vise-grip to the tube method.
-- Len


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: What did I find? (LenE)*

That's great! Your perseverance and willingness to share with everyone will certainly help dispel the 'gas cap' syndrome.


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: What did I find? (tjnamtiw)*

So I went to the local dealer today and ordered a replacement changeover valve. The one I broke last night runs around $44, and I'll have it next Tuesday. It comes attached to the flexible tubing in my picture, which is OK, since I had suspected the O-rings in the lower connector of also being prematurely hardened.
While I was there, I did some checking on the N80 solenoid, and I found a few interesting things. The parts guy (not a service guy) knew exactly what solenoid valve I was talking about, even though it was tough to find in the ETKA system drawings. He indicated that this solenoid was a common problem part. More telling was the fact that they had several in stock. This dealership stocks close to nothing locally, so they must be a high demand / high failure part. He quoted me $133 for this valve. I don't know if I need it yet, but I am thinking that this may be the real culprit. Since they have it in stock, I might decide to get it later next week.
Tonight, I found the same valve online for about $100, but I would have to pay for and wait for shipping, so hopefully I'll be able to figure out if I need it or not soon.
-- Len


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## 12Sec Rado'' (Apr 2, 2005)

*Re: What did I find? (LenE)*

Excellent job man,I am enjoying this..........I think these cars are built with pure "planned obsolesence" in mind.That valve is designed to last 4 years/100,000 miles,lol.


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: What did I find? (LenE)*

I got the replacement valve and it's associated tubing yesterday. Immediately, I noticed a small change in the design of the valve. If you look at the picture I posted earlier, you will see three large black O-rings, wrapped around the outside. My new part replaces the center O-ring with a green O-ring, which is of a much softer consistency. In addition, the new breather tube has a thick foam noise-absorber cuff around it that the old one did not have.
Last night, I installed it with a few problems. First, I had to remove the wheel liner (again) to free the old breather tube from the EVAP canister. I put the new breather tube on, and fished it up to the tail-light opening so that I could install the valve. The second problem I had is that I could barely fit the intact valve into the fuel filler neck, as the opening for the valve was too high. I had to flex the filler neck back, and shoehorn the valve through the tail light hole to get it in. Eventually, I was able to insert it and clear the rear fender.
Now, the third problem I had is potentially the worst. I pushed pretty hard, and could not get the valve to seat in it's proper position.







I couldn't position my hands in any convenient manner to get good access, so I turned around my square-handled screwdriver, and pushed on the valve. Crack!








So, I put a crack in my brand new valve trying to seat it into a hole that it was designed to fit into. Anyway, the crack isn't that severe, and I'll superglue it tonight to make sure it is sealed.
I drove to work this morning with my VAG-COM computer, and I checked the codes when I arrived. No faults in the engine controller. Readiness was set for all things... except for EVAP.







Well, this is an improvement over all attempts this last month. I tried to force the EVAP test and N80 check, but the engine coolant temperature was too high, and neither test would start. I'll check those tonight.
-- Len


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## gimik (Jan 30, 2005)

*Re: What did I find? (LenE)*

your diligence is much appreciated, Len..


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## xltheory (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: What did I find? (gimik)*

just my 2 cents.. 
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low
did you check why terminal 30 has low voltage? i checked the wireing diagrams and if i read it correctly connection terminal 30 provides voltage for the n80 valve.


_Modified by xltheory at 9:54 PM 4-6-2005_


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

*Re: What did I find? (xltheory)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xltheory* »_just my 2 cents.. 
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low
did you check why terminal 30 has low voltage? i checked the wireing diagrams and if i read it correctly connection terminal 30 provides voltage for the n80 valve.

_Modified by xltheory at 9:54 PM 4-6-2005_

That code will show up if you have unplugged your battery.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: What did I find? (LenE)*

Hi Len:
I am really enjoying reading this thread, and just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate the time and effort you have put into documenting your diagnostic and troubleshooting efforts. This is really helpful for all of us.
I'm going through a similar process with an electrical problem on my VW, so is another owner on the west coast. Although the topic doesn't relate to the problem you have, the processes we are following are very similar. We are documenting it here: Phaeton Battery Discharge Problem. Thought I would let you know about this one, just in case you get sick and tired of working on your own problem, and want to read about someone else's problem for a change...








Michael


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: What did I find? (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael,
Thanks! I enjoyed the distraction, and take solace that my bug doesn't have many controllers to give spurious codes. I think many come to the forum looking for the silver bullet to solve their problem, try what they find, and never report on success or failure. I plan on finding the source of my ills, and I hope that I can save other people money by at least eliminating the wrong fixes by listing the symptoms that they correct, if any.
Good luck on your search for the discharge culprit. Your discussion has given me new insight to a few flakey problems we have with our Audi allroad, but that will have to wait until I find my leak.
-- Len


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: What did I find? (LenE)*

OK, so in the middle of my second day with the new valve installed, I have yet to get a CEL. Unfortunately, my readiness codes still indicate an EVAP problem, and until this morning, I couldn't trip the Leak Detection test (01-04-071). If I didn't need a clean slate of readiness codes for emissions testing, I would probably have left well enough alone, as my leak detection system was registering a "REED CLOSED" state, and therefore no fault code.
Well, that ended this morning when I was again able to trip the test condition. My leak still persists.
So tonight, I return to the beginning to Pencilneck's vise-grip test of the real N80 Solenoid valve. By the way, the parts guy at the local dealer tells me that "N80" solenoid means nothing to them. By the vagaries of the ETKA system, it shows a $7.00 solenoid valve with the same name, in the emissions system pages, but not the correct N80 solenoid. This one that is shown is the one that I mistakenly tested, thinking it was the N80 solenoid.
No, the real N80 solenoid is a $133.00 part made by Bosch (P/N 077 133 517 C), that is shown on the Fuel Injection system pages of ETKA. This is my new prime suspect.
-- Len


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: What did I find? (LenE)*

Len:
I'm not sure if this idea will help you or not - in fact, it might be a really dumb (kindergarten) comment, because I don't know much about engines - but here it is anyway:
When I was writing VAG-COM label files for the W12 engine controllers in my car a few weeks ago, I discovered that there is quite a lengthy process of steps that must be followed in sequence in order to set the readiness code following a problem. In other words, let's say the engine has a problem that causes two sequelae: 1) a fault code, and 2) the readiness code no longer indicates the engine is healthy. We can correct the problem, and clear the fault code, but the readiness code will not reset until we carry out a series of steps in the correct order to run the engine through a pre-defined self test procedure. This was all news to me.
So - what I am thinking is, maybe all you have to do is carry out the prescribed series of self-test steps that will cause the engine to reset the readiness code?
I have emailed you the VW document that explains how to do this on a W12 engine - there are about 30 steps that have to be carried out. Obviously this won't work for your engine, but it might help point you in the right direction to find a similar document that does apply to your engine.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: What did I find? (PanEuropean)*

This is the document I referred to in my post above. I emailed you the original PDF. Note that there are two errors in the original document, where the author referred to banks 1 and 2 when they should have written banks 3 and 4.
Michael
*How to set readiness code document (sample)*


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

*Re: What did I find? (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Len:
I'm not sure if this idea will help you or not - in fact, it might be a really dumb (kindergarten) comment, because I don't know much about engines - but here it is anyway:
When I was writing VAG-COM label files for the W12 engine controllers in my car a few weeks ago, I discovered that there is quite a lengthy process of steps that must be followed in sequence in order to set the readiness code following a problem. In other words, let's say the engine has a problem that causes two sequelae: 1) a fault code, and 2) the readiness code no longer indicates the engine is healthy. We can correct the problem, and clear the fault code, but the readiness code will not reset until we carry out a series of steps in the correct order to run the engine through a pre-defined self test procedure. This was all news to me.
So - what I am thinking is, maybe all you have to do is carry out the prescribed series of self-test steps that will cause the engine to reset the readiness code?
I have emailed you the VW document that explains how to do this on a W12 engine - there are about 30 steps that have to be carried out. Obviously this won't work for your engine, but it might help point you in the right direction to find a similar document that does apply to your engine.
Michael

Michael:
The readiness code is reset whenever the engine controller’s DTC memory is cleared, but there is no requirement to set the readiness state, it will perform the tests over time and set itself. 

_Quote »_The readiness code is an 8-digit number code which displays the status of the emission relevant diagnostic.
When the diagnostic for a system (e.g. secondary air system) has been successfully completed, the corresponding position in the number code will change from 1 to 0. 
The diagnostic is performed at regular intervals during normal driving. It is recommended that the readiness code be generated after performing repairs on an emission relevant system, to guarantee that these systems function correctly. If a malfunction is detected during the diagnostic it will be entered in the DTC memory. 

If the original poster would tell me which engine is in his Jetta I can provide the correct procedure to set readiness.
-Andrew


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: What did I find? (joako)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joako* »_The readiness code is reset whenever the engine controller’s DTC memory is cleared, but there is no requirement to set the readiness state, it will perform the tests over time and set itself. 

Thanks for clarifying that, Andrew. I had the mistaken impression that you had to go through all the steps manually to reset the readiness code. Like I said, I have very little knowledge of engines - the only time I ever open the hood is when the "add windshield water fluid" message appears. My interest is mostly in the diagnostic and electrical end of things.
Michael


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: What did I find? (PanEuropean)*

The readiness codes reset in time, but you can also trip a sequence of tests to get them to reset faster. This is what I was attempting to do by first tripping 071, and following with 070. For some reason that I have yet to figure out, I was unable to get the test modes kicked into gear.
Anyway, I have much progress and results to report. When I got home on Thursday night, I was able to get the 071 test to start, and it did indicate that I still had a leak (the test aborted). I kicked the 070 test also, and got a "TEV NOT OK", telling me that I still had EVAP problems. On the bright side, the spurious codes the car had been throwing had disappeared, so I feel that my bypass valve replacement was not in vain.
While the VAG-COM was still hooked up, and the engine still idling, I got out the vise-grips and clamped them on to the hose leading to the N80 solenoid. The following picture shows the location of the valve and where to clamp. The picture does not do justice to the difficulty of reaching this hose, as I had positioned the camera to get the best angle to see this valve. It is hidden behind the coolant and windshield washer tanks.








So I clamped onto the hose and immediately, the engine slowed about 40 rpm. It sounded as if it had started to labor under a newly applied load. I ran the 071 test, and it reported no leak. I removed the vise-grips, and performed the 070 test, and that reported OK as well. I checked the readiness codes, and the EVAP one had cleared. The N80 solenoid valve was definitely the prime culprit.








I raced down to the local dealer and got the replacement part. As I mentioned before, they stock this part which is rare. When I started to tell the parts guy the first three digits of the part, he finished with the last three and the suffix letter! Because of this, I would suggest that checking the N80 solenoid should displace "replace your gas cap" as the first response to the "Large leak detected" problem. 
I returned home and promptly lost another 10mm socket to the crammed-in-crevices-of-doom that form between the gerrymandered windshield washer container and the fenderwell. Eventually, I got the valve out and replaced with the new one. In the bug, you have to remove the bracket holding the valve, to get access to the valve itself. This bracket is held onto studs in the fender by rubber isolated top-hat bushings and 10mm nuts. I almost lost one of the bushings when I replaced the bracket with the new valve. It is in such an awkward position that loosing the nuts or bushings is very easy.








This is what the liberated valve looks like.
-- Len


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: What did I find? (LenE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LenE* »_...I returned home and promptly lost another 10mm socket to the crammed-in-crevices-of-doom that form between the gerrymandered windshield washer container and the fenderwell...

Hey! *I've *done that too. I wonder how many Golfs there are out there with sockets, box end wrenches, and other tools hiding in those crevices?
Michael


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

*Re: What did I find? (LenE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LenE* »_Because of this, I would suggest that checking the N80 solenoid should displace "replace your gas cap" as the first response to the "Large leak detected" problem.

Len:
Checking the gas cap would be the most logical thing to do first, maybe it is not the most common cause for your problem, but checking it would most certainly be the smartest first step to take.

_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hey! *I've *done that too. I wonder how many Golfs there are out there with sockets, box end wrenches, and other tools hiding in those crevices?
Michael

Michael:
I thought you didnt do engine work? Also, I would like to thank for your email yesterday morning, I greatly appreciate your help.

--Andrew


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: What did I find? (joako)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joako* »_Checking the gas cap would be the most logical thing to do first, maybe it is not the most common cause for your problem, but checking it would most certainly be the smartest first step to take.

Andrew,
I should have been a little more clear. Because the advice is given ad infinitum, and it doesn't help people who have cars with persistent problems that have not been fixed by replacing the filler cap. I suggest that this should be checked first. The vise-grip trick costs nothing, and the 071 test requires removal and re-tightening of the fuel filler cap, anyway. If the vise-grip test yields no results, then move on to the fuel filler cap and then the bypass valve.
-- Len


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: What did I find? (LenE)*

Just a quick update. It has been two weeks since the N80 solenoid replacement. I've been able to fill up the car with gas a few times, and start without hesitation. Before, it would be almost impossible to start after putting any amount of new gas in the tank.
Another member in this thread had the same issue with his A4. I imagine that not wanting to start after a fill-up is probably the most common a symptom of this valve failing. I'm not willing to risk any more sockets to test this theory by re-installing the failed valve, but others who are suffering this symptom could do the vise-grip check at a fill-up to see if starting is easier.
It's too bad that the ECU doesn't record unusually long starting attempts, as such a code would probably separate the bad gas caps from N80 failures.
-- Len


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