# VRT Kinetic Stage 2 10 lbs too much?



## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

im still fat AFR 10.9-11.2 wot in 1st gear, at 9 psi, 10 safe? I've heard 9 or 10 from different people just wanted to throw it on here.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

do a WOT run on 3rd or 4th gear and see what are the AF in boost... more accurate reading on how the car is running...

do you have an inline pump?


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I was able to run 12 psi @ 12.1 Afr. Stock motor, stock pump ran it that way for two years.


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## MRosier (Sep 17, 2006)

I also ran 12psi on 30# software. Intercooled with no inline fuel pump. AFRs never saw above 12.5 on WOT


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

no inline pump, ill check AFR's 3rd and 4th... and 5500 light throttle and romp on 2nd. 12 psi!?


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

I'm 11.4 or something like that at wot 3rd - 4th. Should I go further lol


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

PjS860ct said:


> do a WOT run on 3rd or 4th gear and see what are the AF in boost... more accurate reading on how the car is running...
> 
> do you have an inline pump?


No, 11.4 at wot on highway as previously stated. What tune did you guys have c2 or UM? Any difference on 30#?


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

CorradoFuhrer said:


> No, 11.4 at wot on highway as previously stated. What tune did you guys have c2 or UM? Any difference on 30#?


I was running a C2 chip.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

11.4 is good... a bit rich but safer than lean... 

Up it till its enough lol


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## masterqaz (Oct 5, 2007)

As I've said before cranked till it breaks then back it off a quarter turn. 

But in all seriousness a fuel pump is cheap and takes about an hour to install.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

yep... i would install a walbro 255 inline just for peace of mind that there is always enough pressure all the time...


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Honestly, these injectors are only good for a bit over 300 @ 3 bar. Just turn it up to whatever you feel comfortable with. You don't need a pump on a 30# setup on a stock CR motor.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Honestly, these injectors are only good for a bit over 300 @ 3 bar. Just turn it up to whatever you feel comfortable with. You don't need a pump on a 30# setup on a stock CR motor.


i have ford 30#, from the older kinetic kit, i dont know if there is a difference between them and the red ones. Buts its pretty fat still yet on the highway. I was told not to go above 10, so i'm gonna keep it there. I did notice oil temps going up a bit. heat - the constant enemy of HP. Its funny how heat soak can literally make the car not much faster from 6 - 10 lbs. 

The walbro in tank can be done in an hour? or are you talking about an inline pump install?


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## masterqaz (Oct 5, 2007)

Did my inline in a driveway on my back with a relay harness (proper way ) in about a hour and a half. Beer  

Intank shouldn't be any harder asides from rusty screws on the cover.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

CorradoFuhrer said:


> i have ford 30#, from the older kinetic kit, i dont know if there is a difference between them and the red ones. Buts its pretty fat still yet on the highway. I was told not to go above 10, so i'm gonna keep it there. I did notice oil temps going up a bit. heat - the constant enemy of HP. Its funny how heat soak can literally make the car not much faster from 6 - 10 lbs.
> 
> The walbro in tank can be done in an hour? or are you talking about an inline pump install?


If your staying at 10 psi, you do not need a pump. No reason to put it it in unless you are running it in tank. If you run it inline and the stock pump fails, your still SOL. Stock pump will do you just fine at your power level.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

ok, i guess i'll just keep it at 10, i mean what do the people at C2 know anyways


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

masterqaz said:


> As I've said before cranked till it breaks then back it off a quarter turn.
> 
> But in all seriousness a fuel pump is cheap and takes about an hour to install.


the limits! lmao... Im sticking with 10, i think 12 might be too far. When I drop the hammer at 5k light throttle to wot it flashes 12.4... C2 might be on to something.. but they might be covering their butts! Whats too lean 13.5?


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)




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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

hey when that SAI solenoid is unplugged (it became so by accident) i know it will disable fuel trims, even though the tune writes out emissions... will it throw a CEL? It never did... How will I know its disabling the fuel trims other than too fat mixture?


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

its weird i didn't get a CEL for having that SAI solenoid unplugged (by accident) its gonna throw off fuel trims but not let me know?


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Do you have vagcom? If you do I can tell you how to check long and short term fuel trims. 



CorradoFuhrer said:


> the limits! lmao... Im sticking with 10, i think 12 might be too far. When I drop the hammer at 5k light throttle to wot it flashes 12.4... C2 might be on to something.. but they might be covering their butts! Whats too lean 13.5?


 These chips will do that if you go from partial throttle high revs to WOT. It takes a second for it to recover. Keep that in mind if you do a lot of partial throttle boost, the chip works best when you just WOT it out. 12.1 AFR is considered best for max power, though I prefer to be in the 11's. 

From what I remember, my afr's would go rich on tip in (high 10's) then when the boost would come on it would go a tad lean (12.5) then settle around 12.1 on my setup @ 12 psi. 

How old is your O2 sensor? If it has some age, replace it. 

On a side note about these chips. They are designed to be turned up until they will not hold a solid good afr then backed off a tad. They all run there best near the limit of what they can support. That is if you have the supporting equipment to handle the power. If your worried, you can log knock via vagcom to see if you are pulling timing. If you are, back it off a bit and enjoy.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Do you have vagcom? If you do I can tell you how to check long and short term fuel trims.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I have a Vag V checker hand held tool... what group is that log knock under? group ___ 02 has no complaints on the CEL and seems +- on the vag com within spec. but its not new, it was in my dp when i bought my kit. On my wideband im 11.3 in all out boost at like 9.5-10 psi whatever it is all thhe way up.


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## 20V_DUBBIN (Aug 29, 2007)

12PSI 9:1 non-intercooled on #42 UM chip...havent had any issues aside from some detonation on 110+ degree days


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

20V_DUBBIN said:


> 12PSI 9:1 non-intercooled on #42 UM chip...*havent had any issues aside from some detonation *on 110+ degree days


 That sounds like an issue.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

20V_DUBBIN said:


> 12PSI 9:1 non-intercooled on #42 UM chip...havent had any issues aside from some detonation on 110+ degree days


 Why only 12 on 42# 9:1? I was pushing it at like 10.5 spike -10 up hill and highest a/f I saw was 12.7... A tad too high for my liking so I backed off. 12.5 I'm getting is the sweet spot anything between there and 13.5 is where real power is made but risky. 

It was like 97 degrees and humid as hell. On the highway it's way safer but in 2-3 going up hill is where I saw it lean up a bit. Still in the green though but still... I'm good on 12 psi haha, can't wait to go Siemens and 2.9 ie JE arp.i was told next week but you know how machine shops go lmao


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I have heard of people having problems with Siemens injectors on chip setups. I would stick to the green tops, that is what the tune is for.
Also, he was running 12psi non ic. Without meth, that is asking for trouble.

sent from a calculator using tapatalk.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

10psi? Sh1t that's when the fun starts


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## 20V_DUBBIN (Aug 29, 2007)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> That sounds like an issue.


 Not really an issue if you can keep your foot out of it


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

20V_DUBBIN said:


> Not really an issue if you can keep your foot out of it


 Your call... Detonation and FI don't mix, the statement was paradoxical that's why I made the statement. If you are detonating you have issues, period. The problem is that detonation is not predictable and even if you are suspecting that it is occurring on days when your OAT is >110 deg there is probably some subtle detonation going on at lower temps. Also keep in mind that the more you expose that motor to detonation (even if subtle) the less resistant it will be if for whatever reason you have a lean run. You will probably wind up torching that motor if you don't do something about reducing knock/detonation, ie lower the boost, increase the octane or intercool it somehow. Good luck. :thumbup:


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## 20V_DUBBIN (Aug 29, 2007)

Thanks for the advice bud, but i've built plenty of VR6's in my time and blown quite a few up as well. As you can see many people on this post are running ~12psi without issues. All i've got to do is control my right foot on hot days until i get w/m injection running.:thumbup:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

20V_DUBBIN said:


> Thanks for the advice bud, but i've built plenty of VR6's in my time and blown quite a few up as well. As you can see many people on this post are running ~12psi without issues. All i've got to do is control my right foot on hot days until i get w/m injection running.:thumbup:


 Um, I here what your saying but vdub is right. What works for some or what some can get away with does not mean its concrete. I know I had some det at 12 psi, riding the knock sensor. Let's not turn op's thread into "I have built and blown xx engines". Just sayin.

sent from a calculator using tapatalk.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

How do you read the knock sensor with the v checker? What's the group number? Also whats the number for IAT?


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

20V_DUBBIN said:


> Thanks for the advice bud, but i've built plenty of VR6's in my time and blown quite a few up as well. As you can see many people on this post are running ~12psi without issues.


And you will be building many more.
I've also run those setups close/at the limits too, that does not make it sensible. A lot of people who say they have "no issues", have issues.



GinsterMan98 said:


> Um, I here what your saying but vdub is right. What works for some or what some can get away with does not mean its concrete.


My point exactly, when you are operating a chip tuned car at the fuelling limits like that all it takes is one other part of your setup to deviate and you just earned yourself a motor swap.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> And you will be building many more.
> I've also run those setups close/at the limits too, that does not make it sensible. A lot of people who say they have "no issues", have issues.
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, like the intercooler lol. If there was a stock bottom end VR going 9's making 700ish HP and you blow yours sky high at half the power, your doing it wrong. I did and paid for it, not happy I efed up a good motor either. 12V's are getting hard to find in good shape, soon they will be like B18/16's that cost a small fortune because everyone blows them up. Even the D16Z6 is pricey now, I remember when people would practically give them away because they swapped in a dual cam. I would never brag about blowing my motor unless it was setting some record. Though I think we will run out of O2A's before VR's, lol.:beer:


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

CorradoFuhrer said:


> How do you read the knock sensor with the v checker? What's the group number? Also whats the number for IAT?


? ... vr's are pretty easy to come by I think. I have two cylinder heads no one seems to want


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

CorradoFuhrer said:


> ? ... vr's are pretty easy to come by I think. I have two cylinder heads no one seems to want


Not down south man. Dime a dozen up in PA though, won't last forever.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Not down south man. Dime a dozen up in PA though, won't last forever.


i have seen 11 lbs, i turned it back down to like 10 ish spike 10.... my afr's are really rich, I wonder if that SAI solenoid wiring got funky again. I don't have any check engine for it, but with out it (chip i thought wrote all that out) before I had what no fuel trims with out it? 

I think if it was an issue a CEL would come up correct? As far as i know the wiring looks good? What can I do in with my Vchecker to make sure I have fuel trims and im not off a pre programmed map or whatever?

might be a question for c2. I need to hop back on the dyno again.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

CorradoFuhrer said:


> i have seen 11 lbs, i turned it back down to like 10 ish spike 10.... my afr's are really rich, I wonder if that SAI solenoid wiring got funky again. I don't have any check engine for it, but with out it (chip i thought wrote all that out) before I had what no fuel trims with out it?
> 
> I think if it was an issue a CEL would come up correct? As far as i know the wiring looks good? What can I do in with my Vchecker to make sure I have fuel trims and im not off a pre programmed map or whatever?
> 
> might be a question for c2. I need to hop back on the dyno again.


I can only help you with fuel trims if you have vagcom. You would have to contact C2 with the chip version number and see if it a race file or not. The race file has the rear O2 and SAI deleted. The one they can't delete is SAI on MK4.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

GinsterMan98 said:


> I can only help you with fuel trims if you have vagcom. You would have to contact C2 with the chip version number and see if it a race file or not. The race file has the rear O2 and SAI deleted. The one they can't delete is SAI on MK4.


it is a race file, and i dont have the vag com through the lap top, i have the V checker hand held tool which allows me to monitor group # and whatever else with out having the extended graphs and stuff. 

http://www.tmart.com/VChecker-Profe...referral&utm_term=Q00638&utm_campaign=product

^^ thats what i got


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

CorradoFuhrer said:


> it is a race file, and i dont have the vag com through the lap top, i have the V checker hand held tool which allows me to monitor group # and whatever else with out having the extended graphs and stuff.
> 
> http://www.tmart.com/VChecker-Profe...referral&utm_term=Q00638&utm_campaign=product
> 
> ^^ thats what i got


You should really get vagcom, it is much better than that OBD2 code reader. It allows you to log groups and look at data real time in graph form, worth every penny.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Not down south man. Dime a dozen up in PA though, won't last forever.


down south everyone got chevy's haha


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

GinsterMan98 said:


> You should really get vagcom, it is much better than that OBD2 code reader. It allows you to log groups and look at data real time in graph form, worth every penny.


yea, well I need 900 dollars to get my block out of the machine shop. Overbore, crank polish and standard assembly.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

CorradoFuhrer said:


> yea, well I need 900 dollars to get my block out of the machine shop. Overbore, crank polish and standard assembly.


I have one I might sell you. 
http://store.ross-tech.com/shop/VCHUC.html
I would let it go for $200.00.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

GinsterMan98 said:


> I have one I might sell you.
> http://store.ross-tech.com/shop/VCHUC.html
> I would let it go for $200.00.


you have two? im saying the hand held is pretty good, id'e have to be sold on it real strong like be able to use someones and see if its absolute must have other the Vchecker. I appreciate the offer though ill stick it in my things I would like to get a hold of eventually.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

im pretty sure running over 10 toasted my 02 sensor, its running pretty rich. I got it right at 10 max, and im 10.7 11.0 - was told its supposed to be 11.6 all the way up? Where's a good place to grip one up? I don't have a CEL for it, but something tells me I don't know the history of mine... that it should be replaced by a quality new unit. I know when they get fuzzy they tend to go rich. Correctamundo?


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

*FV-QR*

You need to find someone with vagcom that can look at your short and long term fuel trims. You would be throwing money at a problem without knowing what will fix it. If it is bad, just get the universal 4 wire O2 they sell at atuo zone and wire it in, much cheaper. It is the newer style Planar style sensor, which in my experience seem to be more responsive than the OEM single hole sensor. Before you blame the O2, clean your MAF, check your plugs, do a TBA and make sure you have no boost leaks.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

no boost leaks, vac solid 22, 17 at idle boosts up just fine... mafs is oem new bosch. I can pull up fuel trims I think on the Vchecker, its like a percentage or something or like that right? I was searching on here, if its above or below +/- 3% percent right it could be off? That's the gyst I got. Shame I'm not sure if the AEM Uego wideband I have has a narrow band signal in conjunction with the wideband that goes to the gauge??? I'll have to search on that.

I talked to a local guy who had the exact same problem, turned out over boosting it a bit over 10 caused his o2 to crap out, was trying to explain to me that the tune isn't designed to go up that far and your effectively leaning it out just a bit when you do that. Said he replaced his O2, kept it at 10 MAX and had 11.6 all day.

I called c2 about this, they assured me that having the race file I have negates the SAI solenoid so if something is wrong there (wiring or what have you) I am not losing my "fuel trims or maps" as I have read on here searching.

I also mentioned about my CEL that I have for my Speed sensor out of range (something with the VSS on top of the trans must have broke) - they said that would have no affect on my air to fuel. They leaned toward the 02 sensor as well, and not to go above 10 max as well.

I know you had luck with 12.. but going above nuked my older 02, might be time for another one. 

Is there still a VAGCOM registry, im negative 150 to get my short block out of the shop (was told a certain number for an estimate, told basically double, then told the number I was quoted was not the right number I had been previously told a few times )

I can pop it on the dyno one more time or buy this 02 sensor, but the short block is on the agenda. I got two cylinder heads I can't seem to get rid of though! 

All I know is now im like at 9ish 10 but when it first starts spooling up im seeing 10.0 - and maybe it will creep up to 11 but only had a pretty high rpm like 6. Do you remember going like pig rich instantly had like 2-3 when the boost starts coming on?


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Makes no sense because you run open loop at WOT, your ecu will disregard the O2 signal.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Makes no sense because you run open loop at WOT, your ecu will disregard the O2 signal.


Oh really? Well maybe my cars normal then... I'll have to post some in car video at wot


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

It's showing the symptoms of my old chip, when the SAI solenoid wasn't hooked up at wot it ran real rich? I plugged it in, it got better. I also had unmetered air coming in the nipple of the turbo that wasn't connected. All is connected perfect. If I had spare cash I would throw it on the dyno see what's what.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

should I play with the octane? I'm rolling on 93, i can get 92, and 91.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

stay with 93


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## masterqaz (Oct 5, 2007)

CorradoFuhrer said:


> should I play with the octane? I'm rolling on 93, i can get 92, and 91.


But why would you do that? Not like you tunes gonna be like hey this is 91 or even 87. It'll only pick up on detonation.


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## JoHnsVrT (Feb 1, 2007)

my car sees 29 psi with a 67mm turbo on it with a stock bottom end on c2 60# stuff and it runs perfectly fine little over 500 whp


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

johnsvrt...^^^ is that on 93 octane only? or with water/meth?


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

You wont make any more power by uping the octane without adding timing. Chips will just ride the knock sensor regardless, but if you seeing timing pull, running non leaded higher octane fuel will at the most, let you see full timing. Water Meth would be a great idea for your setup.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

I got rid of my CEL (bad VSS, speedo randomly started working again) i got it up to 11 psi... AFR's are perfect, 11.3 -11.6. Car pulls great. 

i dont know about a stock block, but i'm excited to have something fresh that can take the abuse of whatever comes next. 

Ginsterman you got a built bottom end or just stock?

I was told by C2 that the VSS with the CEL won't affect anything either will the SAI solenoid because i'm on a race file...


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

stock block is fine unless its in bad shape to begin with... i have a 3L now but my stock long block before had 100K miles and I used it for 2+ years and had seen up to 18-25psi every weekend and it never gave up... compression was good before I took it out for the 3L... :beer:


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

PjS860ct said:


> stock block is fine unless its in bad shape to begin with... i have a 3L now but my stock long block before had 100K miles and I used it for 2+ years and had seen up to 18-25psi every weekend and it never gave up... compression was good before I took it out for the 3L... :beer:


im going 2.9, i have a low miles replacement and its a champ... its at like 75k if that right now. How much did you pay for machining for 3L and assembly?


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

PjS860ct said:


> stock block is fine unless its in bad shape to begin with... i have a 3L now but my stock long block before had 100K miles and I used it for 2+ years and had seen up to 18-25psi every weekend and it never gave up... compression was good before I took it out for the 3L... :beer:


what did you run with static 10:1 or did you go right for the spacer? Oh and nice join date, i got you beat by a couple of months ;-)


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

was at 9:1 with a headspacer... Lugtronics helped alot keeping my stock engine together ... blew up my first setup at 10psi with c2 within a month... but that was their crappy OBD1 software


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

CorradoFuhrer said:


> im going 2.9, i have a low miles replacement and its a champ... its at like 75k if that right now. How much did you pay for machining for 3L and assembly?


 
i bought my 3L from Schimmel


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

PjS860ct said:


> stock block is fine unless its in bad shape to begin with... i have a 3L now but my stock long block before had 100K miles and I used it for 2+ years and had seen up to 18-25psi every weekend and it never gave up... compression was good before I took it out for the 3L... :beer:


If tuned right, a stock engine with a spacer and rod bolts will take pretty much anything you can do on 93. I also run a stock engine with ARP head, rod bolts, cams and a 9:1 spacer. Wish I had the cash for a 3.0L.


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## JoHnsVrT (Feb 1, 2007)

no water/meth just good old 93 but it breaks up very badly at 28-29psi everyone tells me i need to ditch the c2 and go lugtron I know I need to do it but money is tight so im working with what I have the maf limits me seems when my car is below 500whp 25 psi lower it runs great anything above it gets funky.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

GinsterMan98 said:


> If tuned right, a stock engine with a spacer and rod bolts will take pretty much anything you can do on 93. I also run a stock engine with ARP head, rod bolts, cams and a 9:1 spacer. Wish I had the cash for a 3.0L.


I read against the 3.0 for driving all the time... glad I went 2.9 for added security. I got arp head, rod main stud kit for the short block, I was reading about the spacer leaking around 450whp and then the next thing would be rod or rod bolts rght?


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

JoHnsVrT said:


> no water/meth just good old 93 but it breaks up very badly at 28-29psi everyone tells me i need to ditch the c2 and go lugtron I know I need to do it but money is tight so im working with what I have the maf limits me seems when my car is below 500whp 25 psi lower it runs great anything above it gets funky.


don't you need a pro mafs above 450? when you got a 2nd throw that beast on the dyno... i still can't believe your just low compression running all that and its still good to go, very stout motors :thumbup: 

mine broke down below and who knows what crazy psi, but it didn't have the look of detonation, it looks like it broke under stress around the ring lands as most people noted how they pop.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

CorradoFuhrer said:


> I read against the 3.0 for driving all the time... glad I went 2.9 for added security. I got arp head, rod main stud kit for the short block, I was reading about the spacer leaking around 450whp and then the next thing would be rod or rod bolts rght?


More displacement will usually just net more torque. No problem daily driving a 3.0l, just like any other engine. I would do rod bolts around 400 hp to be safe, there is also a debate in on to how to "properly" install them. Torque is what you need to be worried about when deciding to install rod bolts. Spacers will only leak if the block or head are not true or not enough torque applied to the studs or bolts. Detonation can burn the gasket causing it to leak also usually blowing coolant out the coolant bubble. 



CorradoFuhrer said:


> don't you need a pro mafs above 450? when you got a 2nd throw that beast on the dyno... i still can't believe your just low compression running all that and its still good to go, very stout motors :thumbup:
> 
> mine broke down below and who knows what crazy psi, but it didn't have the look of detonation, it looks like it broke under stress around the ring lands as most people noted how they pop.


Several people on here have gone deep 500's on stock bottom ends. 05JettaGLXVR6 got in the 9's on a stock motor plus 288's and ARP head and rod bolts on 8:5:1 CR ~700 hp. Granted this was on E85, but it shows the tune and setup are paramount. Chips work if you don't push them to far with everything else working at its limit. Pro MAF is far better than any chip working with the stock MAF and lots of people have put down some serious power with that fuel setup. I loved my 30# chip to death, worked awesome.


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## JoHnsVrT (Feb 1, 2007)

my motor is 9:1 ill be making the switch to lugtronic 2000 id's and ignite e98 pretty soon i wanna get out of the 500 range already


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

GinsterMan98 said:


> More displacement will usually just net more torque. No problem daily driving a 3.0l, just like any other engine. I would do rod bolts around 400 hp to be safe, there is also a debate in on to how to "properly" install them. Torque is what you need to be worried about when deciding to install rod bolts. Spacers will only leak if the block or head are not true or not enough torque applied to the studs or bolts. Detonation can burn the gasket causing it to leak also usually blowing coolant out the coolant bubble.
> 
> 
> 
> Several people on here have gone deep 500's on stock bottom ends. 05JettaGLXVR6 got in the 9's on a stock motor plus 288's and ARP head and rod bolts on 8:5:1 CR ~700 hp. Granted this was on E85, but it shows the tune and setup are paramount. Chips work if you don't push them to far with everything else working at its limit. Pro MAF is far better than any chip working with the stock MAF and lots of people have put down some serious power with that fuel setup. I loved my 30# chip to death, worked awesome.


then what are people doing on built bottom ends! this is what i wanna see!


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

GinsterMan98 said:


> I was able to run 12 psi @ 12.1 Afr. Stock motor, stock pump ran it that way for two years.


:thumbup:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

CorradoFuhrer said:


> then what are people doing on built bottom ends! this is what i wanna see!


 Push there tune further, the stock stuff is good, but has its limitations. Also, if you run forged pistons no need for a head spacer because you can get them in the CR you want.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

yea my je's are 2.9 and 9:1


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