# Struts/springs vs coil-overs



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Ok, I'd like impressions/advice on my suspension - my plan right now is to hopefully get a set of Koni FSDs ($680) with Hotchkis springs ($250); my assumption is that the FSDs and the Hotchkis (with a .9" drop) will give me a quality ride along with being decent for the Chicago area (ie, construction, potholes, and snow - this season I've had to deal with all three at once http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif).
Anyway, once I priced this combo, I realized I could get some coil-overs for the same price, and VMaxx are like $700. I've read that coil-overs can give just as good of a ride as a strut/spring combo, but would they really be the best choice for the conditions my daily-driven TT will encounter around my area? 
Also, in the end, does it really make a difference whether anyone goes with struts/springs or coil-overs?










_Modified by l88m22vette at 10:59 PM 2-10-2008_


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## my own style tt (Sep 2, 2007)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (l88m22vette)*

IMO struts and spings for your conditions unless you go to the track alot. I want the TEIN set up but $1800 is alot to pay just for looks cuz I dont go to the track and My TT isn't a daily driver so I'am consitering anything that puts me 1inch and 3/4 from stock hieght.


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## cdougyfresh (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (l88m22vette)*

As far as I can tell.. the benefit of coilovers is just the adjustability. Other than that i dont see why they would perform any better than a good spring / strut setup


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (l88m22vette)*

For your purposes I think the Spring/strutt combo will be your best choice. 
They will give you an overall great ride with a much better sporty handeling and unless you are racing and need a constant adjustability of changing your dampening and your ride height than there really isn't much of a reason to go with the more expensive coil overs. And if you do go with coilovers do not get the least expensive kind. Go with a decent set like the Bilstein PSS9 or HR or Koni.
I am going with the FSD Dampers and the Eibach combo since they are pretty much made for each other and came highly recommended to me by someone that knows their stuff when it comes to Porsche and Audi performance and suspension.
The bottom line is what do you want and what will you be happy with! If you want the adjustability of coilovers go with them. If you just want sporty handeling and performance without the adjustability go with the shocks and springs. 
Question, why Hotchkins and not Eibach springs??? 


_Modified by IndyTTom at 11:48 PM 2-10-2008_


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (IndyTTom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IndyTTom* »_
Question, why Hotchkins and not Eibach springs??? 


Because I'm hoping the .2" difference will help, and I've heard cincy mention an AWer thats very happy with the set-up. I'm also going with a hybrid oilpan: http://www.mjmautohaus.com/cat...=1193 Aluminum breaks, steel gets bent. Guess which doesn't puke out oil if you hit something







I figure its good insurance, and cheap at that. 


_Modified by l88m22vette at 11:06 PM 2-10-2008_


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## iminthegaragedear (Jul 18, 2007)

What's the spring rate on the Hotchkis compared to stock, Eibach, H&R? I like the .9 drop. It won't throw the geometry off too much, and sounds like they'll be more functional for your roads.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_
I'm also going with a hybrid oilpan

Hope you didnt forget *NOTE: Includes oil pan only. Oil pan specific oil return line (PN: 06A145735AB) needs to be sourced separately. *
Thats another $135 from ecs. DIdnt see it on mjm


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## Phrost (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (cincyTT)*

If you don't want to go that low for summer driving, then you probably won't waste your time to raise it .5" or so for the winter. So with that, I recommend whatever you can get that is cheaper, assuming that you factor in the quality of the brand of course.
The only thing you also have to consider, is resale. If you're going to keep your TT for a while, you probably won't sell your suspension with a ton of miles on it. If you'll get rid of it after a year or two, coilovers will have a much better resale value.


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## 225TTRoadster (Oct 24, 2007)

I would go with the coil over if you have the moniez!!! which it sounds like you do considering you are now rocking a Haldex blue.
Just keep in mind a quality brand. I am not sure as far as coil overs what is offered for the TT but do not settle for crap. and also no matter which you go with ... keep them salt free... rotted my buddies Tien full coil over setup within a couple years. My personal choice would be if they offer a TEIN FLEX setup... do it...


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (l88m22vette)*

WOW, nice Oilpan. I may invest in that as well. Looks like a straight forward installation. Are you sure this one will fit our TT's? There are a couple of different types of oilpans that will or will not fit our cars. 
http://www.mjmautohaus.com/cat...=1193


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
Hope you didnt forget *NOTE: Includes oil pan only. Oil pan specific oil return line (PN: 06A145735AB) needs to be sourced separately. *
Thats another $135 from ecs. DIdnt see it on mjm

Couldn't he just use his existing Oil return line? 
And Cincy, will this pan work on our TT's? I have a small oil drip coming from my Oil Drain Plug. I think it got tightened too much by the previous owner or dealer that changed the oil and I can't get a new drain plug threaded in there so I have to use the old one over and over again.


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## TXR32 (Jun 4, 2006)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (IndyTTom)*

I'm glad this conversation has been brought up. When our TT comes back from the body shop we'll be putting on some new suspension stuff thanks to Morio http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif We'll be going with a Spring/Shock/Strut combo rather than Coil Overs mainly b/c of cost, but also b/c Morio is a great guy and going to help me install it at his place http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Anywho, again i'm glad this came up b/c i'm starting to fully understand the differences between the types of suspension setups for our cars. We won't be tracking the TT, its the ladies daily driver and so I think we're in the same boat as the OP.
Oh by the way if you guys ever see my original thread regarding the accident (its called "TT was in an accident today")surface to the top of the forum, know that its bumped up b/c of a worthy update


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## Maverick1.8t (Jun 24, 2005)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (cdougyfresh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdougyfresh* »_As far as I can tell.. the benefit of coilovers is just the adjustability. Other than that i dont see why they would perform any better than a good spring / strut setup

thats not the only benefit, coilovers have perfectly valved shock for the spring rate provided. a vehicle can also be corner balanced (overkill for most).
that being said, a good coilover setup wont ride too harsh. when you start getting into really stiff spring rates the equation changes a bit though. for you i dont think you would require anything above 350#'s. you shouldn't worry about ride height that much since we have upgraded spindles-ride height makes more of a difference in the MkIV (all im saying is we have a bit more room to play with) just as long as you dont slam the car on its balls.
so its your choice.i think you should also consider:
http://www.srsvw.com/
great quality kits with the driver in mind. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (Maverick1.8t)*

Does Shine carry stuff for the TTq? All I see is MkIV stuff...


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

I don't know if shine does a setup specific to the TT. I know the front stuff would all fit, but the spring rates would be off. Another option to consider is a GC coilover kit. Are you just looking to drop the car a bit or gain in stiffness, etc?
oh, and another vote for "no" on vmaxx


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (KG18t)*

I want to lower my car some, but I run 18" wheels, which I why I chose the .9" Hotchkis. No coil-over I've found is less than like a 1.2" drop. I'm never going to track the car, and plan on 15mm spacers in front and 20mm spacers in the rear. I want as well-controlled, "athletic" ride, but, again, this is a daily driver. I'm just trying to settle on parts so I can concentrate on digging up a good deal










_Modified by l88m22vette at 1:45 PM 2-11-2008_


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

well, you can't really loose with hotchkis or koni. I was digging around for a bit, anyone know the adjustment range on bilstein PSS coilovers?


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## Neb (Jan 25, 2005)

*Re: (KG18t)*

i thought the PSS only got about max 1.7ish" of a drop. That would be my first choice if i didn't want to slam the TT


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (Neb)*

If I were to go coilovers I would go with the PSS or the PSS9 but Bilstein. Great company and great coilover. Not sure what their range is.


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## iminthegaragedear (Jul 18, 2007)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

Better make sure you get the ride you want. You say you never want to track your car and want Hotchkis. Aren't they specifically designed for the track? They may be just right, and setting your Konis on soft may help some, but make sure you know the springs you're getting.... not just the height you want. Recommendation of a friend of a friend on AW is not much info to go on. I'd give Hotchkis a call, get their impression of what the springs are like and what their intended use is, and try and find a car with the set-up you're considering to go for a ride. I'm interested in Hotchkis too, but suspension tuning isn't on the list for this season. I tried a few months ago to get input on the Suspension Forum and got nowhere. If you get them please let us know.


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (IndyTTom)*

maverick said it right. when you buy a Hotchkis spring and a Bilstein or Koni shock you do not have a 'system'. you have a spring with a specific height and spring rate. you have a shock designed to have more compression and rebound valving than a stock shock. it can use stock spring, hotchkis springs, or just about any other spring offered. you do not need as much compression as aftermarket shocks give you. they put in alot so you CAN run stock springs and have a stiffer ride. 
a coilover system knows which spring rate is going to be used so it gives you the correct compression and rebound for that spring. THIS is where you get the incredibly smooth ride.
Both KW and Bilstein make coilovers that can be lowered less than 1" from stock. my car sits 1" lower and i could go higher.


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## TXR32 (Jun 4, 2006)

*Re: (M this 1!)*

Since we're on the subject here, whats everybody's opinions on Neuspeed springs?


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (M this 1!)*

Great info...so then, which coil-over system would be best for a daily-driven TT that sees crappy roads and salt in the winter? STaSIS, KW, Bilstein?
Another question: if I had $2200, I'd get the electronic suspension from Patec, but I don't. Does anyone know of an electronic TTq/R32 set-up?


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

honestly i'd go with the KW. the rear spring seems to have abit more travel and a nicer ramp up. when i hit a BIG dip in the road my car used to buzz a tad on the fender liner. they do not anymore with the KW. also the stainless steel threads of the KW would be better for your salted roads. Both drive great!!! i ran the PSS9s for 65k and am now on the KW.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (M this 1!)*

No kidding about the salt: http://www.kw-suspension.com/e...e.php
Thats a huge difference!


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

Isn't that cool! if you were local, i'd take you for a spin. The car is SO damn smooth!!! it'd sell you on a coilover system in about 30 secs. if you NEVER see a track, you'll still know you made the right decision


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (M this 1!)*

I've owned virtually every combination of koni's, Boge, neuspeed, H&R, bilstein shocks and springs on a variety of different VW's over the years - in the 32 years of owning cars - i've never owned one which had a stock suspension on it for long. I've owned both KW V2's and V3's on my two TTq's. They were by far the best suspension i've ever owned on any car in terms of ride quality and handling. They are also the most expensive. 
If you opt to not spend the necessary cash for KW's - i'd look into Stasis tracksports which are also Koni based. However - they will work with you with regards to spring rates and setup - and they are only about $1000 compared to $1500 for V2's.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I've owned virtually every combination of koni's, Boge, neuspeed, H&R, bilstein shocks and springs on a variety of different VW's over the years - in the 32 years of owning cars - i've never owned one which had a stock suspension on it for long. I've owned both KW V2's and V3's on my two TTq's. They were by far the best suspension i've ever owned on any car in terms of ride quality and handling. They are also the most expensive. 
If you opt to not spend the necessary cash for KW's - i'd look into Stasis tracksports which are also Koni based. However - they will work with you with regards to spring rates and setup - and they are only about $1000 compared to $1500 for V2's. 

So in your opinion are coil overs going to be overall better than lets say a Koni FSD and Eibach Spring combo? How about the Bilstein PSS Coilovers?


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (IndyTTom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IndyTTom* »_
So in your opinion are coil overs going to be overall better than lets say a Koni FSD and Eibach Spring combo? How about the Bilstein PSS Coilovers? 


Yes - due to matched valving and spring rates. HOWEVER - that is not to say that the Koni/eibach is a bad combo - but a matched coilover set will always be better balanced but more expensive. 
I dislike the Bilstein PSS coilovers due to the rear spring design - just ask Nathan he's had both PSS and KW's. 
In terms of spring rate - Neuspeed > H&R> Eibach>Sline - don't know anything about Hotchkis - but I doubt they are far off from any of the others.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Yes - due to matched valving and spring rates. HOWEVER - that is not to say that the Koni/eibach is a bad combo - but a matched coilover set will always be better balanced but more expensive. 
I dislike the Bilstein PSS coilovers due to the rear spring design - just ask Nathan he's had both PSS and KW's. 
In terms of spring rate - Neuspeed > H&R> Eibach>Sline - don't know anything about Hotchkis - but I doubt they are far off from any of the others. 


Okay where can I get those Stasis coilovers for about 1k? I assume they are pretty good? I mean if I spend about 890 for shocks and springs I might as well go with better balanced coilovers for a little more.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (M this 1!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *M this 1!* »_Isn't that cool! if you were local, i'd take you for a spin. The car is SO damn smooth!!! it'd sell you on a coilover system in about 30 secs. if you NEVER see a track, you'll still know you made the right decision

So which coil overs would you recommend for a daily street driven TT? 
I would like to keep the cost down to around 1k.


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## Maverick1.8t (Jun 24, 2005)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_Great info...so then, which coil-over system would be best for a daily-driven TT that sees crappy roads and salt in the winter? STaSIS, KW, Bilstein?
Another question: if I had $2200, I'd get the electronic suspension from Patec, but I don't. Does anyone know of an electronic TTq/R32 set-up?

I think you should contact reflexgti (steve, i think) in the suspension forum, he is a distributor for ground control.regardless of what you choose he can point you in the right direction.i have heard nothing but good things about patec and their Series 4.i believe they use a progressive rate spring and you can get them at custom rates.
...but then again i nvere had a problem with the koni and hotchkis setup.
and the only other electronic suspension i have ever heard of is the tein, but im not sure they control ride height and they dont make it for the tt.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Maverick1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Maverick1.8t* »_
and the only other electronic suspension i have ever heard of is the tein, but im not sure they control ride height and they dont make it for the tt.

The EDFC works with superstreets and you can buy SS for the TT. Dont know if they come as a kit but there is a universal EDFC kit available that may work.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (Maverick1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Maverick1.8t* »_
I think you should contact reflexgti (steve, i think) in the suspension forum, he is a distributor for ground control.regardless of what you choose he can point you in the right direction.i have heard nothing but good things about patec and their Series 4.i believe they use a progressive rate spring and you can get them at custom rates.
...but then again i nvere had a problem with the koni and hotchkis setup.
and the only other electronic suspension i have ever heard of is the tein, but im not sure they control ride height and they dont make it for the tt.

Steve is a good guy and GC stuff is good quality - but i've never used it so I can't comment on it. 
No electronic suspension that I know of raises and lowers the car - most just change dampening unless they are air bag suspensions.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (IndyTTom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IndyTTom* »_
Okay where can I get those Stasis coilovers for about 1k? I assume they are pretty good? I mean if I spend about 890 for shocks and springs I might as well go with better balanced coilovers for a little more.


Got the name mixed up - Stasis street sports - no track sports. They are $1095 straight from Stasis. A fellow TT owner who I track with is getting some installed next week. Call jason, jared or beau at 888.9.STASIS.
http://www.stasisengineering.c...ID=81 

_Modified by [email protected] at 6:34 AM 2-12-2008_


_Modified by [email protected] at 7:36 AM 2-12-2008_


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I really like the STaSIS set-up, but why should I get that over a KW V1? I guess corner-balancing would be cool, but I don't plan on adjusting the dampeners once I get them set. Also, would STaSIS hold up the Chicago winters?


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_I really like the STaSIS set-up, but why should I get that over a KW V1? I guess corner-balancing would be cool, but I don't plan on adjusting the dampeners once I get them set. Also, would STaSIS hold up the Chicago winters?

V1's have preset rebound dampening - vs. V2's which have adjustable reound dampening like the Stasis setup. The V3's offer both compression and rebound dampening and considerably different internal valving than the V2's.
So you'd have to compare V2's to the Stasis setup.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Got the name mixed up - Stasis street sports - no track sports. They are $1095 straight from Stasis. A fellow TT owner who I track with is getting some installed next week. Call jason, jared or beau at 888.9.STASIS.
http://www.stasisengineering.c...ID=81 



GREAT! Thanks for the info! In general are Coilovers just as easy/hard to install as a set of springs and dampers?


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (IndyTTom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IndyTTom* »_
GREAT! Thanks for the info! In general are Coilovers just as easy/hard to install as a set of springs and dampers? 


They are just as easy - except that you generally have to take time to adjust the height (need to take measurements before and after from center of wheel to top of fender on a flat surface on all four wheels). Also having to ensure all perches are tight etc. However - the nice thing about the Stasis setup is that it's preset for height and dampening. This allows you to install and then adjust if you feel necessary.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Ok, so its either STaSIS or KW - let me ask, how do you adjust the STaSIS and KWs? I assume the fronts are just a strut perch knob, but what about the rears? I know rear Koni yellows require you to remove the whole strut, and I definetly don't want that PITA. Adjustable is cool, but I want it to be easy. Any info?


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

The other install benefit with the coilovers is you a new spring cap so you can actually have them built up before you start your tear down. I bought new bearing and strut tower bushings and so once the old front shock was out, the new one went in and i never really tore down the old. saved time!!! 
i have not been in a Stasis TT mk I, but there stuff is insanely well done. it rides very well and handles great. if winters are a concern, i'd go KW due to their stainless bodies. if salt/snow/etc is not a big concern, i base it on price!


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_Ok, so its either STaSIS or KW - let me ask, how do you adjust the STaSIS and KWs? I assume the fronts are just a strut perch knob, but what about the rears? I know rear Koni yellows require you to remove the whole strut, and I definetly don't want that PITA. Adjustable is cool, but I want it to be easy. Any info?

Front are knob adjustable - rears require that the lower portion of the strut be unbolted (most Koni based setups are like this). You simply compress the shock and turn it. It's simple if you use a jack under the trailing arm to hold it in place, but the car should be on jackstands. The V3's aren't much easier to adjust rebound in the rear since you need to partially remove the upper portion of the wheel well liner to access it. Honestly - once you set em you probably only adjust the rebound once or twice after that.


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## cdougyfresh (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Front are knob adjustable - rears require that the lower portion of the strut be unbolted (most Koni based setups are like this). You simply compress the shock and turn it. It's simple if you use a jack under the trailing arm to hold it in place, but the car should be on jackstands. The V3's aren't much easier to adjust rebound in the rear since you need to partially remove the upper portion of the wheel well liner to access it. Honestly - once you set em you probably only adjust the rebound once or twice after that.

I think hes thinking running different heights for summer / winter.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (cdougyfresh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdougyfresh* »_
I think hes thinking running different heights for summer / winter. 

If that is the case - nothing needs to be removed for height adjustment.


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## TXR32 (Jun 4, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

man this is like suspension 101, thank you all very much for the input. I'm enjoying this very much


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## cdougyfresh (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
If that is the case - nothing needs to be removed for height adjustment.

what do you use to adjust height? is it just at the top of the strut tower?


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (cdougyfresh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdougyfresh* »_
what do you use to adjust height? is it just at the top of the strut tower?

You adjust height using the spring collars and a special wrench that slots into them. The collar is like a large nut on the threaded coilover shock body and adjusts up and down to adjust ride height. In the pic below the collar i'm referring to is purple under the spring. KW uses a set screw to maintain location while some use two collars locking against each other.








On the rears - theres a threaded perch that the springs sit on that is adjustable. If you look real close you can see the purple perches on the top of the rear springs. They have a collar on them as well which adjusts up or down.


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## cdougyfresh (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Joe, 
So if you were to install the Rears without the perch I'm assuming you would lose the adjustability?


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (cdougyfresh)*

exactly, the perch IS the adjuster. if the car weren't low enough, you'd remove the perch. as it is, you get about 1.1" lower max in rear. BUT this is perfect for daily driving and track use. perfect


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## Maverick1.8t (Jun 24, 2005)

*Re: (vwglinut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwglinut* »_man this is like suspension 101, thank you all very much for the input. I'm enjoying this very much









lol.this is nuthin.spend two weeks frequenting the suspension forum...it will blow your mind!










_Modified by [email protected] at 9:01 PM 2-12-2008_


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## Maverick1.8t (Jun 24, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Steve is a good guy and GC stuff is good quality - but i've never used it so I can't comment on it. 
No electronic suspension that I know of raises and lowers the car - most just change dampening unless they are air bag suspensions.

I have used the gc setup on my MkIV jetta, and its just sitting in my house awaiting new struts so they can go on the tt.to be honest, it was an awesome setup, but i had the kit mated with bilsteins, which unfortunately due to the internal bump stop design of the bilsteins and the fact that the springs were JUST about higher than what they are valved for-it rode a bit bouncy.I blame myself for not being smart enough to either A. have the bilsteins specifically valved for the springs or B. not going taking my time and doing a bit more homework.either way i kept the setup (sans bilsteins) for a reason.they ride incredibly well and it was a simple install.only thing is, the gc setup is NOT for anyone looking to drop their rides retarded low, they keep you within a performance oriented threshold.well worth the money in my opinion and now im trying to get konis (specifically valved-possibly converted to double adjustables) to hook them up with and voila-i have a coilover setup for less than a grand thats comperable to a $2k setup!


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## TTTT (Jan 10, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

heres a sick video of a S4 with Stasis suspention http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mtMR-cqiiDw


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## turbo1eightG (Jul 21, 2005)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (l88m22vette)*


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (cdougyfresh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdougyfresh* »_Joe, 
So if you were to install the Rears without the perch I'm assuming you would lose the adjustability?

As Nathan said - you would - but you really need the perch to have the spring sit correctly. What some have done is simply loose the adjusting collar/nut. However - lowering the TT too much will have a big negative affect on handling. You'll be able to use adjustable control arms to help with camber - but if you go too low - getting toe into spec becomes a problem with a single set of control arms. Not to mention that if your fronts are equally as low - you wind up messing up the camber and roll center of the front suspension.


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## STTELTH (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (l88m22vette)*

My question is, how hard is it to do a suspension job on the TT? Do I need to have any special tools? I have done brake jobs in the past but never a suspension job. I have the Bentley Book, jack stands, etc. Please forgive my noobness.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (STTELTH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *STTELTH* »_My question is, how hard is it to do a suspension job on the TT? Do I need to have any special tools? I have done brake jobs in the past but never a suspension job. I have the Bentley Book, jack stands, etc. Please forgive my noobness.

Suspension isn't too hard, but you do need the right tools. You'll need the right tools to remove the bolts on top of the struts - some use an impact gun but you can mess it up that way if you don't know what you are doing. You also need something to spread the wheel hub housing where the strut is inserted. Both these tools are available through places such as metalnerd.com and others. The rears are simple. Unbolt the existing shocks - remove spring and then install the new stuff.


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## cdougyfresh (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs ([email protected])*

speaking of... does anyone have a link to the DIY? i remember seein it a while back but I must not have bookmarked it. 
I really dont want to pay some jackass $80 an hour to install it.


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (cdougyfresh)*

the fronts are basically like a DIY jetta/golf. the rears are so easy it's self explanitory. just make sure you disconnect the headlight leveling system on the left side in the back or you'll break it. the fronts are tricky. you need to compress the coils enough to get the strut out and THAT is the hardest part.


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## GOFASTT (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (cdougyfresh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Got the name mixed up - Stasis street sports - no track sports. They are $1095 straight from Stasis. A fellow TT owner who I track with is getting some installed next week. Call jason, jared or beau at 888.9.STASIS.

Hello All- as Joe said I'm installing a set this weekend..will have on track impressions next month. FYI StaSiS is still on backorder.. found one last set with Achtuning call Bill 877-722-4886. These are real popular with the GTI group so get your order in.


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## Ergokinetics (Mar 23, 2007)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (GOFASTT)*

So after watching this thread after leaning towards PSS9's I'm now thinking Stasis instead. I really liked the PSS9s for their dampening adjustability (front and back without having to remove) as I use my TT as a daily driver and a track vehicle (5-6 track events a year). On the Stasis, is the factory set up good enough to be comfortable on the street AND good for the track? Or am I going to be going back and forth on dampening adjustments (fronts would be easy but rears sound like a pain).
Thanks!


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## GOFASTT (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (Ergokinetics)*

I'll let you know in a couple of weeks







The reason I went with the StaSiS setup is to balance everyday drivability with good track performance and keep a lower budget... don't forget you should replace your lower rear control arms with adjustable ones- Chicago Performance Tuning makes a nice product for $300 a set.


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## Ergokinetics (Mar 23, 2007)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (GOFASTT)*

If I'm dropping a maximum of 1" do I still need adjustable control arms or would a 1/2 KMAC kit suffice?
BTW, I definitely want to hear your track day report regarding the new set up.


_Modified by Ergokinetics at 2:35 PM 2-13-2008_


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## cdougyfresh (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (M this 1!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *M this 1!* »_the fronts are basically like a DIY jetta/golf. the rears are so easy it's self explanitory. just make sure you disconnect the headlight leveling system on the left side in the back or you'll break it. the fronts are tricky. you need to compress the coils enough to get the strut out and THAT is the hardest part. 

but if you have a spring compressing tool that should be easy right? My roomies dad has pretty much every tool imaginable, including a spring compressor and air wrench, so I'm hoping we can make quick work of it.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (Ergokinetics)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ergokinetics* »_If I'm dropping a maximum of 1" do I still need adjustable control arms or would a 1/2 KMAC kit suffice?
BTW, I definitely want to hear your track day report regarding the new set up.

1/2 Kmacs will work - just make sure you can get your toe set correctly. I used 1/2 Kmac on a 1.25 inch drop on my first TT and they worked fine at 
-1.7 negative.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (cdougyfresh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdougyfresh* »_
but if you have a spring compressing tool that should be easy right? My roomies dad has pretty much every tool imaginable, including a spring compressor and air wrench, so I'm hoping we can make quick work of it. 

Yup - just be careful with the air wrench - need a delicate touch to tighten the top strut bolt - you can damage the strut bearing and bush if you hit it too hard.


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## GOFASTT (Mar 3, 2006)

Hello Joe! YGM


_Modified by GOFASTT at 2:36 PM 2/13/2008_


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (GOFASTT)*

like Joe said. be easy on the top nut putting things together. taking them apart, blast away. 
a spring compressor is a must, not just a help. unless you have a blow torch, you'll need a spring compressor to get it out. what is very hard is the fact that it's so cramped in there and to get most spring compressors in there, they have clearance issues.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
1/2 Kmacs will work - just make sure you can get your toe set correctly. I used 1/2 Kmac on a 1.25 inch drop on my first TT and they worked fine at 
-1.7 negative. 

Hey Joe, 
I have 1/2 a KMAC kit. Stupid questions but where do they go?


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs ([email protected])*

Also, should you get the car aligned right after installing a new suspension or should you wait a week or so until the springs have settled?


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (IndyTTom)*

The Kmacs go in place of your current bushings in your rear control arms. 
you should definitely wait a few before aligning. especially with coilovers because you might want to triple check the height. i take my coilovers, bottom out the adjuster collars and then paint a spot on the collar and one on the shock itself. i then count turns and go to where i think i want the car. i do the exact same on the other side. then as i go up and down to where i really want the car i can match this on the other side. of course i do the same in the rear but that will be a different number of turns from the fronts. for example. my PSS9s i used to have were 5 full turns up from the bottom and that was 1" lower than stock. i don't remember the rears.
the instructions for both PSS/PSS9s and KWs tell you how to measure for a height you want. i combine this with the above that i mentioned. once coilovers are on the car it is really hard to measure how they say in the instructions. sh!te gets in the way. SO the above style comes into play quite well.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (IndyTTom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IndyTTom* »_
Hey Joe, 
I have 1/2 a KMAC kit. Stupid questions but where do they go? 










They replace the inner bush on the lower rear control arm. You need a kmac tool or press to remove the oem bush.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_

They replace the inner bush on the lower rear control arm. You need a kmac tool or press to remove the oem bush.

Thanks Joe! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I knew they go on the rear control arms but since I only have 1/2 a kit I wasn't sure if they go on the uppers or lowers. This clears that up







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The only problem I can see is that TT Stuff didn't send me a Kmac tool so I will have to have someone with a press get the old bushings out and install the new ones.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (IndyTTom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IndyTTom* »_
The only problem I can see is that TT Stuff didn't send me a Kmac tool so I will have to have someone with a press get the old bushings out and install the new ones. 

The best thing to do is try CarQuest, Autozone, or one of those places; just call around and find one that has a machine shop. Any machine shop should have a basic press that'll take care of the bushings...


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (IndyTTom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IndyTTom* »_
Thanks Joe! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I knew they go on the rear control arms but since I only have 1/2 a kit I wasn't sure if they go on the uppers or lowers. This clears that up







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The only problem I can see is that TT Stuff didn't send me a Kmac tool so I will have to have someone with a press get the old bushings out and install the new ones. 

Yeah the tool generally only comes with the full set - I lent mine out and never got it back...........


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_
The best thing to do is try CarQuest, Autozone, or one of those places; just call around and find one that has a machine shop. Any machine shop should have a basic press that'll take care of the bushings...

Thanks Eric. I may give Autozone a try http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## LuisVton (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I live just outside of Toronto Canada in the suburbs and havce a ton of snow, constant construstion on the higways combined with old roads with dips and potholes. I currently have the stasis engineering coilovers and i am lowered 2" i still get around great in the winter and through the big dips/potholes in my area. Not to mention the ride is excellent a little bitter stiffer than stock but just enough to give it that aggressive feel while maintaining daily driveability. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cdougyfresh (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (LuisVton)*

heres a question... in my area they dont use salt on the roads, they use chemical de-icers. Are these types of de-icers better or worse for corrosion?
THe KW stuff looks super nice & quality.. but at a price. and im a broke kid right out of school with a mortgage = /


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (cdougyfresh)*

I don't think any places actually use real salt, but rather the chemical stuff (its easier to say salt). I'd assume they are just as bad corrosion-wise, and although the STaSIS set-up is getting good reviews, I really think I'm going to save for V1s or V2s; that salt test on KWs website did it for me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Dyzee (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

KW's shocks are made by Koni if I am not mistaken. Koni coils should also do well with salt/corrosion.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (Dyzee)*

No, KW is German. Also, I found this post on AW: http://forums.audiworld.com/tt/msgs/1729760.phtml
Wow, thats scary (he lives in Chicago). Now what...?










_Modified by l88m22vette at 4:16 PM 2-15-2008_


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## cdougyfresh (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_No, KW is German. Also, I found this post on AW: http://forums.audiworld.com/tt/msgs/1729760.phtml
Wow, thats scary (he lives in Chicago). Now what...?









_Modified by l88m22vette at 4:16 PM 2-15-2008_

LOL! take the bus in the winter! I dunno but the stuff that I saw on your car looked kinda white n crusty... the stuff we get here doesnt look like that at all. 
I mean are non - stainless brands really made of that poor of materials? The stock springs / struts have held up just fine over many winters.. why would Statis / H&R and the likes be any worse?


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

Actually, they do use actual Salt along with a chemical mix to treat the roads in Indiana. Not sure about Illinois but I am sure they are very similar. It's murder on cars and the roads. I really have to try hard to hit the road with all the Pot holes around.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (IndyTTom)*

Okay guys, I have pulled the trigger on this suspension talk and decided to go with the Eibach/Koni FSD combo. I talked to the General Manager at TD Performance in Cincy and he said that the FSD Dampers are perfectly matched to the Eibach progressive rate springs packaged in the Koni/Eibach kit. They had a 10 percent off winter special and gave me 50 buck off on top of that on the Eibach/FSD Koni set up. I also let them install the Neuspeed 19mm Rear Sway bar at the same time. Yup, it's a done deal. They also did install the KMAC 1/2 kit.
I told them to install them on the lower rear control arms so I hope they did install them correctly. They did align the car so I guess they had to install them correctly. They said you have to get it aligned but they will check it for me for free in another month just to be sure everything is still in specs. 
Overall look wise I don't think it lowered the car by very much. Maybe an inch if that much. (Eibach claims 1.18inches.) Now the first impression. 
WOW







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Ride quality is excellent! Much better than stock.
Not harsh at all as I have expected. I said to myself... HMM, how can some thing that feels better than stock perform better. So I took a few spirited corners and the difference is like night and day. Body roll is almost Nill and the understeer has vanished or at least compared to before it is a 1000% improvement. 
The car is planted a lot more confidently in the corners and coming out of them is a pure joy. No more overcorrecting the steering wheel to compensate for the understeer. It's like a totally different car. I am perfectly happy with this set up and really don't need the adjustability for height, rebound, etc.... 
I do highly recommend this set up for a daily driver. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Tomorrow I will install my Energy Suspension dog mount bushings. Not sure if they will improve things even further or just cause a bunch of vibration


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## fijitt (Mar 1, 2007)

uh........ pics please!!!!!


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (fijitt)*

If the sun peaks out I will take some pics of my car with my ugly winter tires on there


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (IndyTTom)*

Heya, so I know you said the set-up is great (good to hear). Two quick questions:
1) What are the spring rates of the Eibachs?
2) Even though you like the set-up, do you still want more, or did the FSD/Eibachs take care of your suspension desires?


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## iminthegaragedear (Jul 18, 2007)

How did you srt the FSD's? Are the rears adjustable w/o removing shock base?


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## cdougyfresh (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (iminthegaragedear)*

do you mind sharing how much they charged you for install?


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_Heya, so I know you said the set-up is great (good to hear). Two quick questions:
1) What are the spring rates of the Eibachs?
2) Even though you like the set-up, do you still want more, or did the FSD/Eibachs take care of your suspension desires?

I have no clue what the spring rates of the Eibachs are. They are progressive and don't have a harsh ride. Actually they have a smoother ride than stock. I think they are very well balanced to the Koni FSD's. Since I only had them a day I really don't know if I want more. Probably not since I am mainly using this car as a daily driver and I may even venture out and do a little track time. But since I am not worried about courner weights and constantly adjusting things. I believe this set up will suit me just fine. If you do want the adjustability of going lower than 1.18 inch and want dampening and corner weight adjustment. etc etc. 
This set up isn't for you. Personally, the less I have to adjust the better.








I like the this set up a lot and I am sure I will like it even more taking it to the dragon this year http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (cdougyfresh)*

The kit was $844.00 plus $250.00 for the installation which I think was reasonable.
They did charge extra for the alignment. (Another 89 bucks.)


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## cdougyfresh (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (IndyTTom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IndyTTom* »_The kit was $844.00 plus $250.00 for the installation which I think was reasonable.
They did charge extra for the alignment. (Another 89 bucks.) 


thats very reasonable... i need to find a place here that will do it for that price.... what was their hourly rate? the shops around here want to charge $75-$85 an hour which is outrageous for simple grease monkey work. 
Guess ill keep lookin for a better place.... or wait until after April 15th to do it myself.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (cdougyfresh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdougyfresh* »_
thats very reasonable... i need to find a place here that will do it for that price.... what was their hourly rate? the shops around here want to charge $75-$85 an hour which is outrageous for simple grease monkey work. 
Guess ill keep lookin for a better place.... or wait until after April 15th to do it myself. 

Their labor rates are $75.00 bucks an hour but the manager there gave me a deal and told me that they would charge me a flat rate of $250.00 to install it.
It took them about 4 hours for the entire set up so I saved about 50 bucks from their regular rates. Now in those 4 hours they did the install of the Koni FSD/Eibach kit, replaced my lower rear control arm bushings with the KMac bushings, installed the Neuspeed Rear Sway bar and did the alignment.

Well, it was more like 4 hours and 20 minutes to be exact. I got there a little after 4pm and didn't see my car. I guess they were joyriding.. ehm I mean testdriving it for about 15 minutes. The guy told me the car runs great and I have a mean Blow Off valve. That is always good to know..








Anyway, it's a done deal and I took her out on some curvey roads today and had some fun







It definitely handels 100 times better than before. A lot less body roll and more importantly no more crappy understeer. That thing shoots out of the corner like a slingshot. I know this sounds crazy but the car actually feels faster to me than before. Overall, I am very happy with this set up and highly recommend it for anyone that doesn't need the adjustability of Coilovers. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by IndyTTom at 10:06 PM 2-16-2008_


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (l88m22vette)*

BUMP - I am trying to collect info about suspension set-ups because we TTers need some kind reference for buying coil-overs. Please specify which coilovers you have, and rate them for daily driveability on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the best for daily driving, and 10 for the worst. Also give any specs or information you know about you set-up, such as spring rates, dampening, etc. Thanks all!


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## turbott920 (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_BUMP - I am trying to collect info about suspension set-ups because we TTers need some kind reference for buying coil-overs. Please specify which coilovers you have, and rate them for daily driveability on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the best for daily driving, and 10 for the worst. Also give any specs or information you know about you set-up, such as spring rates, dampening, etc. Thanks all!









I would like to add to this how much of a drop you are running with the setup you have and how much more of a drop your setup is capable of.


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## cdougyfresh (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Struts/springs vs coil-overs (turbott920)*

Stasis koni coilovers... dampening set about half way for daily drivin id say about a 7. Feels great on anything smooth / moderate bumps - but its rough on really bad roads. Keep in mind we have some seriously awful roads here - I have never driven anywhere with worse roads
I am lowered about 1.75 inches and could easily go another maybe inch in the front and inch and a half in the back


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