# triple turbo?



## GLI_jetta (Jan 3, 2006)

How does this work? just came across this... i count 3 

_Modified by GLI_jetta at 2:30 PM 5-11-2008_

















_Modified by GLI_jetta at 2:33 PM 5-11-2008_


----------



## TOPLEVEL (May 8, 2005)

That engine looks like it has some sort of weird disease where it cant stop growing turbos lol


----------



## R411Y3 (May 5, 2006)

compound charging for silly boost!


----------



## Monarchy (Sep 8, 2006)

*Re: (R411Y3)*

what's the logic behind this? I've seen setups with two turbos where a smaller one is used to spool a larger one, but here they all look the same size


----------



## dapucker1 (Sep 13, 2004)

a hillbillies wet (from diesel) dream


----------



## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

*Re: triple turbo? (GLI_jetta)*

a diesel powered bong of some sorts?


----------



## shortshiften (Mar 29, 2005)

one spools the other and spools the other and spools the other.
i wonder what kind of lag there is. but when those babys hit i bet you the frame twists like a pretzel 
there did you find the pic ??


----------



## shortshiften (Mar 29, 2005)

also looks like the last turbo is really tiny ?maybe that takes care of the lag issues ?


----------



## GLI_jetta (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (shortshiften)*

it was in some random diesel forum, i have never seen anything like it.


----------



## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: triple turbo? (GLI_jetta)*

Its a ford powerstroke, one of the earlier 94-97 models. The last turbo against the firewall is the stock turbo which by itself is not a small turbo at all but when sitting next to the rest it looks like just a baby. Judging by the bridged high pressure oil rails its a functioning setup


----------



## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: triple turbo? (GLI_jetta)*

Compound turbo'ing is used in mostly diesel monster truck/truck pull vehicles... diesel blocks can handle worlds more psi than a gas engine. 
The reason is this ... if you consider the turbocharger as a pump, they all have the resultant pressure ratio once the boost amount has been esstablished. Let's say you're going a PR of 2:1 ... ie 1 BAR or 14.7 Psi. The absolute pressure coming from the outlet of the turbo is twice that of atmospheric pressure (14.7 at sea level), meaing the absolute pressure being pushed into the cylinder is 29.4psi... however, if you were to put this into a second turbo pushing the same PR (2:1) it would be doubling the absolute pressure of the first turbo and so on... 
So, if you have 2 turbo's pushing PR's of 2:1, or 1 bar each, ther resultant PR would be 4:1 or 4 times that of atmospheric pressure... 58.8 psi... drawn out, the first turbo would boost to an absolute pressure of 29.4... then the second one would double that to 58.8, and so on as you continued to add turbos... 
Using the same idea of the turbo simply being a multiplier, a smaller turbo will be used for the sole purpose of multiplying the compression, rather than having 2 similarly sized turbos. 
the same concept could be applied to a turbocharger feeding a supercharger inlet... yup let you imagination go wild ... 
and before you post more questions/theories about it, search some it's been talked about.


----------



## shortshiften (Mar 29, 2005)

whats the difference between diesel blocks versus gas blocks?
im speaking more about the composite of the materials and the procedure of casting the blocks.??


----------



## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (shortshiften)*

diesels are almost always cast iron blocks and heads with sleeves instead of machined cylinder bores cast into the block. 20:1 compression + 40 psi boost, they have to take a lot of abuse, on top of that they always cruise in boost not vacuum


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: triple turbo? (GLI_jetta)*

call me crazy but those turbos are ordered backwards. They go largest to the smallest when it is suppose to go the other way around. The smallest turbo would spool the fastest and move more air sooner so it should supply air to the next turbo size up and so on. With the way its set up, he just wasted $1k's for not gain since the stock turbo is limiting the use of the other 2 turbos.


----------



## shortshiften (Mar 29, 2005)

just and idea but dont diesel's spool faster since theres more energy coming out of the exhaust. since all the turbos are conected to the same exhaust mani wouldnt the little one start spooling at the same time as the others but just reach its max potential before the others since its smaller. by it reaching its max potential so to speak, wouldnt that give the motor boost wile the other ones continued to spool. 
just a thought and in no way and i saying im right. just thinking out loud. and i dout that he dumped that much into hos truck with researching alot.


----------



## nOOb (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: (shortshiften)*

all 3 would be spooling at the same time, with the little one spooling quicker, thus allowing the bigger ones to spool quicker, allowing the last one to spool quicker.
if you understand how turbos work this isnt rocket science....and as was posted above, hillbilly engineering


----------



## shortshiften (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (nOOb)*

yes we know its not rocket science but normaly when you have a multi turbo setup with different size turbos you have the smaller turbo spooling the larger. put as in the pic the owner of the truck decided to feed smaller turbos with bigger ones.


----------



## nOOb (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: (shortshiften)*

i thought the one on the bottom was smaller from the pic.

weird then.


----------



## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: (shortshiften)*

no these aren't spooling each other... the output from the manifold goes into the turbine inlet for turbo 1, the output from that turbo that would normally exit through the exhaust is routed into the turbine inlet of the next turbo... etc... the compressor outlet (Ie the charge pipe that would be piped to the intercooler or manifold is piped into the compressor inlet of the next turbo. etc... 
They aren't spooling each other. That would be a WRC sort of thing to worry about... 
one reason Diesel are so much strong than gas engines is that there isn't a spark to be squashed by the compression in the cylinder ... for that the cylinder can be encased much more severly...


----------



## shortshiften (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (ExtremeVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ExtremeVR6* »_no these aren't spooling each other... the output from the manifold goes into the turbine inlet for turbo 1, the output from that turbo that would normally exit through the exhaust is routed into the turbine inlet of the next turbo... etc... the compressor outlet (Ie the charge pipe that would be piped to the intercooler or manifold is piped into the compressor inlet of the next turbo. etc... 

 
.......... what are u saying, i would say that yea they deff are spooling each other the out let from one goes to the inlet of the other. wouldnt the boost from one have some effect on the spooling of the next one in line not only cuz the turbo is being powered by exhause gases but also cuz the other turbo is pushing air through the other one.
i could be way off. 
we need ot see more pics of this bad boy and its intake and exhaust mani


----------



## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (shortshiften)*

The sequence of the turbos is correct, here is a truck running a twin turbo set up, one large turbo blowing into a smaller one. Id rather push a charge through a smaller turbo rather than try and pull air through it with a larger turbo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZQj8hXFQzo


_Modified by KubotaPowered at 8:23 PM 5-12-2008_


----------



## shortshiften (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (KubotaPowered)*

those turbos spooling sound like a school yard full of girl screaming!!


----------



## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: (shortshiften)*

The already compressed air going into the compressor inlet has no effect on spooling the turbo. What you have in your mind is plumbing the compressor outlet into the turbine inlet (ie what would normally recieve the exhaust manifolds flow). That would then be one turbo spooling another.
Normally, the exhaust will flow into the turbine inlet then out through the hotside outlet. then normally flow through the downpipe into the exhaust and out the back of the car. However, in compound charging you introduce another step... from the hotside outlet, into the hotside inlet and out through the hotside outlet, THEN through the downpipe, exhaust and out the back of the car. 
In which case the hotside (turbine side) and compressor side are kept seperate in their air flow, one doesn't flow into another. 
the exhaust manifold would look like any turbo exhaust mani... the intake would look like any intake manifold, those are not going to be any different. It's the plumbing between the turbo's that is miraculously difficult to handle heh. 
To use your words... the boost from one turbo would then be "boosted" again through the second turbo. Here is where using some of the correct vocabulary might clear things up. Boost is an concept word discribing the effect of the compressed air being forced into the engine. Technically, all the turbocharger does in compress the air, stuffing more molecules or Oxygen, Nitrogen, Hydrogen, etc... into a smaller space... because of that more fuel can be added for a more powerful explosion... we all know that. 
Now take the concept of the turbocharger simply being a compressor of air, increasing the pressure of the air to some ratio... IE, 5 psi boost would be an absolute total of 19.7 psi and a pressure ratio of 1.34:1, 10psi would be an absolute pressure of 24.7 and a pressure ratio of 1.68:1... pushing approx 15 pounds, or we'll say 14.7psi for math sake would be 29.4 absolute pressure, and would be a pressure ratio of 2:1. Incidentally, this is also referred to as 1 Bar... 
SO, taking the air that has been compressed to 29.4 absolute psi and compressing it again (somehow) through the exact same turbo would then double the compression again compared to atmospheric pressure (the pressure of the air around you as you breath). 
All the turbo is doing is compressing the air, it doesn't really care about where the air comes from ... except when it comes to all of the other loads (axiel, thrust, etc)
Hope that helps...


----------



## R411Y3 (May 5, 2006)

*Re: triple turbo? (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_call me crazy but those turbos are ordered backwards. They go largest to the smallest when it is suppose to go the other way around. The smallest turbo would spool the fastest and move more air sooner so it should supply air to the next turbo size up and so on. With the way its set up, he just wasted $1k's for not gain since the stock turbo is limiting the use of the other 2 turbos.

Ok 10 liters of air at atmos goes into takes up 10,000 cm cubed, compress that by 1 bar and the same amount of air takes up 5,000 cm cubed, 4 bar and it takes up 2,500 cm cubed.
Basically as the pressure increases the volume of air decreases, hence why turbo intakes are larger than the outlets!
Tim


----------



## shortshiften (Mar 29, 2005)

perfect


----------



## V.R.Lvr (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: triple turbo? (GLI_jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLI_jetta* »_
How does this work? 


Like chit i would imagine.


----------



## Sosl0w (Aug 21, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Isn't heat a big problem with this type of setup as well? Double and triple compressing air would create an awful lot of heat i would think.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: triple turbo? (V.R.Lvr)*

If this is for an inline-6 diesel, I reckon a 2-stage parallel-series triple turbo would work better than a 3-stage series turbo. Something like this perhaps?








Note this only shows the exhaust half. And it doesn't show the wastegates.
The wastegate arrangement would be VERY important in all this.

Perhaps keep the wastegate on the bottom turbo open until full boost is reached on the top turbos - then close the wastegate on the bottom turbo to start spooling it. You could use electronic controllers to taper the wastegates for a smooth delivery of power.
Now how to route the intake? Thats a little trickier. Do you make 2 separate 3-cylinder manifolds, or one 6-cylinder manifold? One air filter or two?










_Modified by phatvw at 12:36 PM 5-13-2008_


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (KubotaPowered)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KubotaPowered* »_The sequence of the turbos is correct, here is a truck running a twin turbo set up, one large turbo blowing into a smaller one. Id rather push a charge through a smaller turbo rather than try and pull air through it with a larger turbo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZQj8hXFQzo

_Modified by KubotaPowered at 8:23 PM 5-12-2008_

That **** is retarded.....I ever saw something like that id pop my car in reverse and drive away.....


----------



## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Sosl0w)*

true... but we don't know if that system pictured is going through an intercooler of some sort. Also, with the rev range of diesels is typically extremely short, the efficientcy islands can be utilized to a maximum effect... while heat from compression is still heat from compression, the higher the efficientcy, the better... the most ideal situation would be to cool the air between each stage ... but then of course the plumping and cooler placement would be a logistic nightmare! 
someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Diesels handle heat MUCH better than gas engines ... the biggest problem of heat is the fact that it can cause fuel to predetonate, which is the danger to gas engines. Diesel does not combust near as easily as gas will, which means that it is much more resistant to predetonation. Also, the entire concept of diesel is the use of a control "spontaneous" combustion. The higher static compression ratio of Diesels isn't a fortunate benefit of the thicker block ... it is the core of the diesel's operation. A diesel engine with a compression ratio of 8.5:1 would most likely not even work. The high compression ratio is required to create the detonation for the combustion stroke... note the glow plugs are simply there to get the engine started. 
for all these reasons heat isn't quite as much of an issue for diesels as it is for gas engines.


----------



## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: triple turbo? (phatvw)*

this is an intriguing<sp> idea... but then you'd lose the multiplicitive benefit of the 3rd engine... since they obviously have the funding to do something like this... why not have twin-compound turbo systems... which would result in 4 or 6 turbos ... but I have a feeling like many other things in professional competition sports... there isn't much they haven't thought of and further more there is a reason they do it a particular way.
you would have to have a 2 to 1 collector that would then direct the air from the first turbos into the compressor inlet for the 3rd turbo (bottom)... pretty straight forward actually...
a flaw though might be the compression waves not lining up and causing a reversion kind of effect at that 2-1 collector between the turbos... IF either of the turbo's did not maintain the full extent of compression then the other would then in effect push the air back into the other turbo first turbo... but I think I might be thinking to hard about it...


----------



## xxxdcshoecoxx (Mar 9, 2008)

*Re: triple turbo? (GLI_jetta)*

the little one spools the larger one then that one spools the other its probably for more torqe on that big truck that is not a good setup for high speed or acceleration.


----------



## HEEEPJEEP (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: triple turbo? (xxxdcshoecoxx)*

You guys need to do more research on sequential turbo set ups...wow...
More efficient, lower EGT's, lower drive pressures, better spooling,..etc
I am working on sequentials for my 1.8T...should be fun.


----------



## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: triple turbo? (HEEEPJEEP)*

why do you say that? there hasn't been a single mention os sequential charging here? We've been discussing compound charging... 
...and yes sequential turbo's on your 1.8T should be some fun ...


----------



## xxxdcshoecoxx (Mar 9, 2008)

*Re: triple turbo? (GLI_jetta)*

I take it you cant put the hood down haha you should find more pics of this truck


----------



## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: triple turbo? (xxxdcshoecoxx)*

or cut the hood ... though it'd look kinda dumb I think


----------



## DuB_MaNG (Apr 26, 2007)

*Re: (shortshiften)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shortshiften* »_one spools the other and spools the other and spools the other.
i wonder what kind of lag there is. but when those babys hit i bet you the frame twists like a pretzel 
there did you find the pic ??

QUOTED


----------

