# Looking further into w/m, can't find clear answers on a few things.



## zrau17 (Apr 21, 2010)

Well my goal over the winter is to build myself a nice w/m setup, I just want iron out a few things before I make any purchases.

When it comes to what will be controlling the spray, I have two options...boost or MAP. I've read that the MAF is really the best bet, but I don't have one. I've also read that the MAP can be slow to react and adjust. What are everyone's experiences with either one, or both?

I know spraying just after the TB is a good option, and for a dual nozzle setup one just after the IC is nice too. My intake manifold is tapped in the center of each runner (OEM largeport, like the one 034 sells) by the previous owner. I currently just have some 1/16" plugs in there, but think it would be cool to spray right into each runner. I don't know how close is too close though and if this is a bad idea, I know if I did it each nozzle would have to be fairly small.

That leaves me with my last concern, and that's how much w/m to spray and at what pressure. I know this depends on the setup, and my power goals, but I see that the nozzles will not actually spray their exact rate at different pressures from the pump, so I'd like to know what's the best option for a pump.

Any input is appreciated. I'm going to be building this for a daily driven car, so I want to do it right the first time :thumbup:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2011)

From your sig I can see that you are obviously not running a stock turbo. The MAP sensor would give you a good enough reading to use. MAF and MAP use the same tuning methods. One just gives more of an accurate and easier to use signal then the other. 

Running a direct port setup would be nice because it gives you a more precise delivery into each cylinder, and it would be even distribution. Since the nozzles would have to be significantly smaller it would be something that is not recommended because those nozzle sizes are just not available. Also there would be so much spray that the tuning aspect would be very difficult. Also with the direct port you would only get the octane boost, with no cooling.

My recommendation would be a Snow Performance Boost Cooler Stage 2 Kit. I would then also recommend running a big nozzle after the intercooler for maximum cooling, and smaller one after the throttle body. I would recommend a throttle body flange to avoid getting your electronic throttle body flange soaked leading in malfunctioning tb. Our dual nozzle mount package comes with the flange and the necessary parts to run a dual nozzle setup.

As far as nozzle sizing, They must match your fuel, boost, and intercooler setup. A lot of people/companies sell these kits with one size fits all nozzles. Correct nozzle sizing is critical


----------



## zrau17 (Apr 21, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> From your sig I can see that you are obviously not running a stock turbo. The MAP sensor would give you a good enough reading to use. MAF and MAP use the same tuning methods. One just gives more of an accurate and easier to use signal then the other.
> 
> Running a direct port setup would be nice because it gives you a more precise delivery into each cylinder, and it would be even distribution. Since the nozzles would have to be significantly smaller it would be something that is not recommended because those nozzle sizes are just not available. Also there would be so much spray that the tuning aspect would be very difficult. Also with the direct port you would only get the octane boost, with no cooling.
> 
> ...


I did end up finding something last night on MAF vs. MAP based on the turbo size, so it sounds like the MAP would be my best bet, that way it can be progressive as well. I plan on running around 21ish psi once I'm done and feel good about everything, and with 630cc injectors I know I can spray quite a bit. I'm going to have to find one of those calculators and see how much I should be spraying so I can get the nozzle sizes right once I order.

I also read that to prevent running too rich in WOT it's good to set the cutoff to before the highest boost level? I'm working on getting myself VAGCOM so I can take logs and advance timing if need be.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2011)

zrau17 said:


> I did end up finding something last night on MAF vs. MAP based on the turbo size, so it sounds like the MAP would be my best bet, that way it can be progressive as well. I plan on running around 21ish psi once I'm done and feel good about everything, and with 630cc injectors I know I can spray quite a bit. I'm going to have to find one of those calculators and see how much I should be spraying so I can get the nozzle sizes right once I order.
> 
> I also read that to prevent running too rich in WOT it's good to set the cutoff to before the highest boost level? I'm working on getting myself VAGCOM so I can take logs and advance timing if need be.


Putting the cutoff before the highest boost level would not prevent you from running rich at WOT. You could be WOT at 2k rpm and not be in any boost. At WOT you would be in open loop. Open loop consults programming in the ecu, and goes off the preset map. You want your spray to be in accordance with the torque curve.

When it comes time you are ready to place your order for the kit, I would be happy to correctly figure out nozzle sizing for you. It will take a minute to punch in some numbers.


----------



## zrau17 (Apr 21, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Putting the cutoff before the highest boost level would not prevent you from running rich at WOT. You could be WOT at 2k rpm and not be in any boost. At WOT you would be in open loop. Open loop consults programming in the ecu, and goes off the preset map. You want your spray to be in accordance with the torque curve.
> 
> When it comes time you are ready to place your order for the kit, I would be happy to correctly figure out nozzle sizing for you. It will take a minute to punch in some numbers.


Do you guys have a distribution place over in Philly? I'm not far at all, might be cool to come check out if you do.

I PM'ed you about some of that work you want done too, never got an answer


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2011)

you have pm


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

OP for a setup like yours a MAP/IDC based controller would be best but if economics is a concern a MAF based system would give you better control as the rpms go up but a MAP based system would be easier.

I personally ran a MAP/IDC based stg3 controller and would never look back!


----------

