# Phaeton Air suspension Hard



## matthew k (Jun 29, 2013)

Hi, I have only just bought my Phaeton and registered with this forum but my first problem started yesterday. My car is suddenly riding badly, it was fine but now the ride is hard even in soft mode. Putting it in sport mode makes it harder still so the air shocks are responding to the controller. It also raises and drops correctly when put in high mode and the car is sitting level with no sinking, even when left a couple of days. I'm very worried as as from what I understand the struts are no longer available (it's a 2003) and replacing the system would right the car off! Can anybody help? Many Thanks


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

matthew k said:


> Hi, I have only just bought my Phaeton and registered with this forum but my first problem started yesterday. My car is suddenly riding badly, it was fine but now the ride is hard even in soft mode. Putting it in sport mode makes it harder still so the air shocks are responding to the controller. It also raises and drops correctly when put in high mode and the car is sitting level with no sinking, even when left a couple of days. I'm very worried as as from what I understand the struts are no longer available (it's a 2003) and replacing the system would right the car off! Can anybody help? Many Thanks


Matthew:

Before you panic, check your tire pressures. I'd follow the VW pressures posted on the driver door pillar or a bit below as I believe they are based on max load. In the Sticky at the top of the forum there is a thread regarding the collective wisdom on tire pressures. Also what size wheels and tires are you using. The consensus is that ride stiffens as you increase wheel size. Early Phaeton wheels were in the 17"-19" range. Tire profile is also important, so I would again follow VW recommendations. If all of that is consistent with VW specs, I'm not sure what to tell you. I too have the original struts on a 2004 model with factory 18" wheels and VW specified tire size and load rating. I sometimes feel my ride is a bit harsh but when I look at my 45 profile tires and the relatively high pressures(45psi), I'm surprised it rides as softly as it does. 

Jim X


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Matthew,

Jim X's remarks are good; the sidewalls are low and the car is sensitive to tyre pressures. No garage has had a hand in helpfully adjusting the pressures without telling you?

It sounds more like a controller issue, since a stiff ride from all four corners must mean that the suspension controller is instructing all the shock absorber valves to close. Perhaps the controller has switched into a 'limp-home' fault mode, although I have not heard of this.

You really need a diagnostics scan, followed by a suspension controller reset. The diagnostics might report something specific, like an intermittent strut valve or wiring connection.

Alternatively, if the controller has had a low power supply event, check the battery ages and consider left battery replacement if it is at all suspect. Passing a garage battery check will *not* necessarily tell you if the battery is no longer coping.

Chris


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## matthew k (Jun 29, 2013)

*Fault codes read*

I took my car to a VW specialist. He read the codes and it came up with 01583-leak in system detected and 01577-turn off due to over temp. I got him to clear the codes and the car was fine for 20 miles them suddenly became hard again. So I presume the compressor was shut down again. I have read the other thread and finding this leak sounds annoying. I have it booked in the the specialist next week. Any other ideas? Thanks


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## acoop (Jan 2, 2012)

I had the EXACT same problem with my 05. First they replaced some module and it worked for a few days. then the ride got rock hard again. It was the struts. Mine was an 05 with the "old struts". They replaced all four under extended warranty ..ride is awesome. total was approx 8000.00. but i do remember it did respond to the sport setting by getting even harder yet. Hope yours is not this problem but i had the exact same history.


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## matthew k (Jun 29, 2013)

*Air suspension*

This sounds worrying. I have no warranty, the car has done 80,000, is that the typical failure mileage for the struts? Do. They all have to be replaced or can I just get the one causing the issue replaced? There is a company on EBay doing exchange rebuilt old style air struts. Or at 80,000 miles would it be on a second (new type) set? Thanks, I'm really worried!


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

matthew k said:


> This sounds worrying. I have no warranty, the car has done 80,000, is that the typical failure mileage for the struts? Do. They all have to be replaced or can I just get the one causing the issue replaced? There is a company on EBay doing exchange rebuilt old style air struts. Or at 80,000 miles would it be on a second (new type) set? Thanks, I'm really worried!


I think you should be able to replace just the leaking one. It seems the most common leaking one is the Front Right... even with the newer suspension type.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> This sounds worrying. I have no warranty, the car has done 80,000, is that the typical failure mileage for the struts? Do. They all have to be replaced or can I just get the one causing the issue replaced? There is a company on EBay doing exchange rebuilt old style air struts. Or at 80,000 miles would it be on a second (new type) set? Thanks, I'm really worried!


Hi Matthew,

The first thing to do is to not panic. There are plenty of parts available from £50 up (cheer yourself up by looking here).

It's likely on a 2003 car that you have the early-style struts, but there is no mileage at which they are considered to be old. The car was allegedly designed to have a median component life of 150k miles, which is about double that of a cheap runabout, so although there will always be early failures there will also always be parts that last hundreds of thousands of miles.

The scan told you that air was leaking from somewhere in the suspension system (or possibly that the compressor was unable to pump enough air) and that the compressor was shut off to protect itself from long-term running rather than just top-up service. There's a lot of pipework, a valve block, the reservoir and the pump/drier as well as the struts themselves where air could weep out, assuming the compressor is working properly.

The next step is for your specialist to do an intelligent analysis using his conventional tools and tests, for example soap solution around the joints, compressor/drier and valve block, and disconnecting each strut and pumping it up and observing any pressure loss. If he does a lot of pressure pipe work he will have an ultrasonic leak sensor available.

A quick check of the pipework near the front jacking points will rule out pipe damage caused by someone choosing the wrong place to put a trolley jack.

Chris


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## matthew k (Jun 29, 2013)

*Brake Callipers too!*

Hi, it's at the specialist today. They think there is some wring fault and are removing the boot trim to delve deeper. They seem like good guys so I trust they know what there doing and won't rip me off. The front brakes are sticking, I discovered this before. New callipers are very expensive, what are my options do you think, could they be rebuilt? Thanks


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

You can have your caliper rebuilt locally... or the old way of 'unsticking' the caliper is to take it off the mounted position... and step on the pedal to push the piston out... then compress the piston back in...

Majority of the time, if the brake caliper are sticking... it is due to missing piston cover or damaged... or contaminated brake fluid.


At this point, I would have the brake fluid flushed and your choice of repair.


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## matthew k (Jun 29, 2013)

*Air Suspension fixed*

Hi, I got my car back from the specialist today, it's fixed! The Air Suspension wiring in the boot had been disturbed and a couple of wires were disturbed. They had to do a fair amount of dismantling to get to it, but it's fixed. They had a look at the callipers too and say that they require replacement. I contacted a company that can do a full refurbishment on them, they are £500 from Volkswagon, and nobody else seems to be able to source them! However they are not sticking at the moment so maybe I can leave it a while.

I would like to thank everybody who helped me on this forum, especially given I'm new. I will keep posting and hope to be able help as well. I found this a bit stressful and the information provided here really helped. The specialist seemed very good, they really know their stuff, very good guys. Thanks


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

You should recommend them to fellow UK owners.


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## matthew k (Jun 29, 2013)

*Recommend*

Ok, how do I do this?


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Matthew,

Here is a thread referring to good dealer experiences that you can post in:
UK or Europe Phaeton dealers that we (Phaeton owners) recommend.

Michael laid down some forum guidelines to follow, please see post #1 in the corresponding thread for North America:
NAR Phaeton dealers that we (Phaeton owners) recommend.

Chris


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## matthew k (Jun 29, 2013)

*Phaeton Air Suspension Hard*

Hi, my suspension has sadly gone hard again today. It works but is bumpy and hard as before. So there is another problem or the original fault wasn't completely cured. Any ideas? Thanks


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Matthew,

That's a shame. The best advice I can offer is to repeat that in post #3 in this thread. If you have access to a Windows laptop (of any age, that runs XP or above) buy yourself a VCDS cable and see what the car is trying to tell you.

Chris


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## matthew k (Jun 29, 2013)

*Air suspension Hard*

.


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## matthew k (Jun 29, 2013)

*Air suspension Hard*

Hi, sorry about my last post. I wrote that the fault was intermittent but that is incorrect and made an unsuccessful attempt to remove it, I wasn't bumping it up. I took the car back to the specialist and they confirmed that it has indeed shut down the compressor again. I'm a bit disappointed they made an incorrect diagnosis but to be fair their prices were reasonable and they seem genuine. 

I have bought VW software and a cable online so I can do my own diagnosis. I am presuming it's a strut that's gone but wonder how I can confirm this? Also could it be possible it's an airline? I intend to put the front of the car on ramps and with the engine running try to find a leak, maybe wetting the airlines with a spray of water or something, then repeat with the rear with the engine running. Is it possible to expose the rubber bellows on the struts to allow me to check for leaks on them. From what I understand the weight of the car has to be on the wheels to pressurise the system. 

I'm not keen on employing snap diagnostics with the struts being so expensive, especially as I'm not sure which one has gone if that is the problem or does this whole idea sound like a waste of time? Thanks


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Since you live in UK, I would suspect the front left side strut is bad. Majority of all the cars that had suspension failure is majority always the front right and just one strut but you guys drives on the other side of the road so it would be front left.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Matthew, 

I suggest you do a full scan (engine running), save the results in a file, clear all the DTCs, drive the car a few miles, then re-scan and post the full scan here. 

Cheers, 
Chris


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## vinyin (Feb 28, 2010)

Is there any progress to this? I seem to have exactly the same issue - car bumpy - ride height adjustment and damping settings work but still hard - all 4corners. 
Yesterday actually the ride was awesome - for one day - noticeable within the first 100meters. 

Before I took the car out of the garage yesterday it was sitting there for 2,5 days and I adjusted the tyre pressures with the ignition on - 245/45r19 F2,9bar R2,5bar. 

I had that actually several times - after changing the pressure the car feels different, good/soft (+/- .3bar ) but after a start cycle even - everything is back to a harsh ride. 

No fault codes btw. I had the suspension controller replaced 3D0907553C with a used one (old generation controller because old struds). No difference at all sadly. 
VW doesn't even think that something is wrong - probably a lot if owners don't know that their suspension doesn't work right.....


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That's a new generation controller. What part numbers are your front struts?


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## vinyin (Feb 28, 2010)

Are you sure? The one that was removed has the same part number "C". 
As far as I know the part number of the controller didn't change with the new generation of the controller. 
Actually I even had one time got installed a brand new controller from 2012 - now that was really a hard ride - nothing compared to now. - same part number. 

How can I find out what the part number of my struts are?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

There are three hardware generations, A, B & C. C is the latest afaik. You can get your strut part numbers either from a scan or by looking at the top of the strut (a damp cloth & torch helps). There's a lot of confusion around this though, you might also want to check the software level. Mine is a B controller on 1101 software level, and according to my dealer it's a new generation.


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## vinyin (Feb 28, 2010)

Here are the part numbers of the front struts. 
fl: 3d0616039t
fr: 3d0616040t
Is there a way to find out If theyre the old or new generation?
and the controller has 3d0907533c

It seems that the ride was better (as described) after the car was startet when the battery was low. 
There were two fault codes. So that might have reset the controller ?!? After one day the ride was worse again. 

Address 07: Control Head
Controller: 3D0 035 007 AR
Component: ZAB COCKPIT 0253
Coding: 0000000
Shop #: WSC 45314
1 Fault Found:
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

Address 18: Aux. Heat
Controller: 3D0 815 005 AG
Component: Standheizung 2426
Coding: 0000000
Shop #: WSC 01065
1 Fault Found:
00664 - Fuel gauge
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

What year/region is your vehicle? I believe those struts are the "intermediate" ones that replaced the early struts, but have been superseded by the AD struts. The only way I know of to tell for sure whether your controller is old or new generation is through the dealer scan, but I'd be very surprised if it isn't the new generation.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

The suffix 'T' struts were dropped in 12/2008 to be replaced on failure with suffix 'AB' which, in turn, were dropped in 08/2009 to be replaced on failure with suffix 'AD', as per the table in Resource List of Air Spring Damper (Gas Struts) and Suspension Controller part numbers, although the table there doesn't explicitly make that clear.

Cheers,
Chris


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## vinyin (Feb 28, 2010)

Thank you - so according to the list the controller should be the right one. 

Germany - 2006 v6tdi bmk
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 34: Level Control
Controller: 3D0 907 553 C
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C3V0 1122
Coding: 0005521
Shop #: WSC 25275
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## vinyin (Feb 28, 2010)

The ride seems noticeably softer since about two weeks (19" VW Serres alloys 245/45r19). What I did was spraying in the joints of the leveling sensors G76,G77,G78,G289 with WD40. 

I don't really know if that actually was the thing that helped - I also removed Fuse 19 overnight located in the trunk on the left side but as mentioned before the whole j197 Unit was replaced a few weeks before, so..... Fuse 19 is the fuse for the j197 controller for the air suspension. 

The owners manual strangely lists fuse 19 (5A) as for the cd changer in the glove department which is wrong. 

As for now the ride is really good.


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi all,
Yesterday while fitting the set of winter tires I followed Vinyin's sugestion and sprayed some silicon base lubricant on the leveling sensors linkages. What I noticed was that the rods that connect the sensors to the suspension arms were made of plastic, and the joints feature plastic bushings. Hence they are not affected by corrosion.
With regards to the suspension I did not feel any difference, I guess because the linkages and joints looked fine.

Gabriel


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## vinyin (Feb 28, 2010)

Thanks for your info. 
Was /is your ride hard or did you do this for maintenance?

As I can report after applying wd40 the ride is still good - before it was rock hard.


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi,
I just did it for maintenance sake. The fact that I was fitting the winter tires made it a good ocassion.

Gabriel


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## vinyin (Feb 28, 2010)

I noticed for a few weeks now that if I unlock the car not start the engine right away so just letting it sit for a minute the ride is way smoother. I was able to reproduce that several times.....

The controller j197 has two processors - one for damping in general and a second for advanced damping control. 
According to the ssp for the air suspension if the second processor doesn't work for some reason there still is a redundant damping function. 

I suspect that the controller needs a little time to boot up properly.

,michael


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## squal75fr (Jun 17, 2015)

Hi all,
I have same issue with my supension (V8 2008 150Mkms) - hard and jumpy.
I'm talking about the second "advanced damping" ; general damping works fine.
I made suspension calibration without any problems. 
I have no specific fault code on controle module j197; only intermitent low battery voltage on rear seats and on ZAB.
I remarked the same strange things (like vinyin) noticeable within the first 100 meters and hard/jumpy after this.

All 4 corners works fine togethers - no level difference.
I suspect that compression is tired. I seen on ebay some remanufactured parts - does it mean this part is weak?
Thanks


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## vinyin (Feb 28, 2010)

As I further learned it is critical to the j197 controller that the left battery is perfect.... Not good or average..... It has to be in very good condition..... 

I suggest replacing both battery's with decent batteries .... I used two varna batteries. 
Since the the sky hood mode is pretty much on always (advanced damping)....
and it seems that another issue got better since replacing the batteries.... I didn't notice any flickering from the headlights since then (dual xenon) .... Might have to do with the alternator not working so hard....

,michael


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That sounds a lot like a right (starter) battery problem that looks like a left battery problem. Listen for a clunk from the trunk when you start the car. If the RH battery is weak, it will automatically parallel the batteries with the relay for starting, which means that certain system initialization functions don't always work. On mine, it's always the AC memory function that first shows the problem, the climate system will come on but it will forget the 4-seat-position setting, and eventually also the passenger side temperature setting. Rather than replacing both batteries, I'd recommend starting with the cheaper one and see if it works. Make sure the battery is fully charged prior to installation, then make a few long journeys before you conclude it hasn't worked.


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi, It was mentioned sometime ago by a fellow member that lubricating the suspension level rods and sensors made the trick for him. I think it is very simple a worth a try. Gabriel


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## squal75fr (Jun 17, 2015)

Left battery has been changed. Right battery is still good.
Still same issue.
I changed wheels for winter wheels in 17inch. It's a little better compared to my 19inch but not a lot.
New idea would be appreciated.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi folks, 1st post here, so be gentle lol !

I've been meaning to register for ages.

Now back to this thread, I'm in the middle of swapping out my OSF air strut, as at 100k, the liner has split & keeps on leaking.

Due to a dispute with an air suspension rebuilder who sent me a shoddy unit, I've stripped my old one & am about to repair it with a replacement air bag kit for the pricely sum of about £120

No real special tools needed to repair, however I'll recalibrate the ride height ( easily done with my VCDS ).

Look forward to reading & contributing....

Cheers

Nice forum BTW :wave:


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Taz,

Welcome to the forum!

If you have any photos of your work I would love to get them posted here. Struts were always interesting, and although they usually last for an amazingly long time I am sure we all want to hear about alternative repair methods.

Cheers,
Chris


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## cbh123 (Aug 25, 2013)

I'm curious about this repair kit also... 
any link to who supplied the parts?


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi mate.

I've attached some pics below.

Bear in mind, the DAMPER is the same on all of these ( 2 wire ).

I'd say the air bags are just a generic type, as they ALL look the same & they ALL come from China ( i've sourced a pair for $200 each ) incl' shipping, time will tell if my money goes walkies via Alibaba lol, but they company seemed genuine.


Anyhow, please have a look, as I'm going to be reassmbling the car next tues when i'm off work. 

Point to note here is that apart from the bag itself, the serviceable parts are a few "O" rings.... so if you have a leak, you can repair this for the sake of a few pence !! All you need is to reuse the electrical socket / replace it with a new one ( about a £5 on the 'bay ), or if you a good with a terminal demount tool, you can reuse the socket 










Quick pic of the airbag assembly, this is a total replacement item




And a quick pic of the diasssembled top mount ( you need a 41mm / 40mm spanner for this ! )





SO, don't be afraid to strip it all down.... about 2hrs to remove from the car & about another 30mins to strip... you'll save yourself hundreds chaps !

regards,

Taz


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

oh....

also forgot to mention, I recall somewhere in this thread that some folks think the levelling sensor joints are ok as they are plastic ?

Bit like my Merc too, but beware !

the actual ball joint is a mild steel ball inside a rubber / polyurethane socket, and it does rust & swell !

Both my front joints were seized solid... so definitely putting a LOT of load on the sensors & brackets...

You need to remove these & carefully pull the ball out of the socket ( after you soak it in a cup of very hot water )...

you can then clean the ball & I simply filled the socket with grease & reassembled.... good for another 100k ( probably 5k in out climate  )


Regards,

Taz


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

I'm very impressed Taz.

Tomorrow I am planning on pulling my right front strut out. I was going to take it to a specialist to see if there is a worn part causing a loud 'clunk' when I go over a pot hole / cats eyes etc. (I'm sure it's not the arms or the drop link)
I am suspecting there is a bearing of some sort under the top mount (the part in your photo with 4 bolts at the top) - can you tell me if so ? - or any other parts you can see that may cause such a noise ?

Thanks, Robbie.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Rob,

Good afternoon mate, chances are it's the "C" clamp bracket that connects the lower wishbone to the ARB.

These are VERY common parts that wear out & cause a classic clonk.

You could turn the wheel to full lock & wiggle the bracket, it may make a noticeable knock / have some play in it.

There are replaceable metalastic bushes on the wishbones, but generally you need to press these out.

The Top mount ( which is a rubber / metal sandwich is pretty robust ), and this is bolted quite firmly to the upper airbag assembly with the 41mm nut.


I'm going to do a "How-to" guide which I'll post on here for you folks when I rebuild my strut tomorrow ( with the admins permission ), as it WILL save you so much aggro' and costs.

Other than putting in some graft, you can do this yourself with a relatively modest toolkit.

My Supplier in China has e-mailed me ( as I've decided to order a spare bag for the passenger side ) and one for the shoddy strut I received from a german supplier ( which I'll recon & sell on).

Hope this helps.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

just re-reading your comment Rob, there is NO bearing as per normal McPherson / double wishbones...

The swivel of the steering is taken up by the upper pinch bolt from hell & the 2 ball joints, the actual damper stays perfectly still when you turn the wheel, thus no rotational bearing, the top mount simply bolts to the upper part of the airbag.

also, you don't need to fully dismantle the upper wishbone ( as my pinchbolt is well seized up ! ), I ended up just allowing the suspension to sag on this side & then undo the top mount adapter plate ( this allows the top bush to fit to the ali' bracket that fixes to the car with 3 spline type screws ).

You have to wiggle a bit & fight the damper to compress it, but I simply undo the pressure retaining valve with a set of grips carefully & the air pressure is released.

Elsawin is strict about refitting, as it needs inflating to 3.5bar prior to install to avoid folds in the rubber sleeve.

cheers,

Taz


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Thanks for the info Taz. 

I have replaced the bushes in the C-clamp (drop link) with powerflex bushes so it is not that. I was about to pull the strut out when I thought I would try a local MOT station who have a suspension wobble plate. They could not find much, but they did say the steering track rod has a little play - but there is no noise at all with steering movement, just a noticeable clunk when going over bumps !

Can you tell me if you can see either of the bearings shown in this diagram please ?










Many thanks,
Robbie


p.s. this is the specialist I was going to take it to:

https://airdominance.co.uk/

They probably have spare bags etc if you need any parts.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi mate, the strut support bearing is the only bit that could be torn, but looking at the one I took off which has done over 100k, it looks fine... Only other bit maybe the top nut is loose? But I had to put some force to undo it using a 41mm spanner bud

I've heard of air dominance.... No idea how good they are... The German firm I used was very sketchy in quality terms.

I wonder if they'll sell just the airbags alone? Maybe good to see their reply... As you could do the repair at home... As they don't quote prices.

Kind regards, taz 😊


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Just looking at a/dominance... They also charge for your damper! Cheeky so and sos... I paid the same for an outright strut... Albeit they shotblasted the aux accumulator with holes.

But I assume they are decent.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

cbh123 said:


> I'm curious about this repair kit also...
> any link to who supplied the parts?


I would also like to know where you got the kit.

Also, do you mean that all of the dampers are the same part number, or that they all have two wires?

-Eric


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Eric,

I would say up to circa 2008, all the dampers are the same, I've not bothered yet to check ETKA, however unless there is something special, the dampers are NEVER changed / require any work, unless you have an obvious oil leak from the damper, as it's a sealed gas pressusised damper.

I'm restraining from my source on the web, however it's from the infamous Alibaba website ( a real minefield ! ) 

I'm guinea pigging myself & have placed an order ( I'm covered by my credit card anyhow ), but if they come through, then I'll be happy to share the link... wouldn't want a sales frenzy only to let peeps down.

Something like : Guangzhou YICHAO Auto Part Co., will give you a good starter ( their repair kits for example ALL look the same, although they do specify different part numbers for model years ).

Most of us here will be of the 2004 - 2009 phaeton vintage ( i'd hazard a guess  ).

The beauty of the repair kit is that YOU keep your original damper & just replace the wear & tear item ( which is the airbag assembly ).

It's pretty unlucky for the damper to fail, as it's cocooned by the airbag housing it's whole life. 


HTH

Taz


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

I got my air strut off, with some hassle from the 'pinch bolt from hell' - my car is only 3.5 years old so I thought the bolt might not be seized; it was ! The bolt started to shear so I took it to the local garage who used heat and an air chisel to get it out.

I sent the strut off to be refurbished (due to a clunking noise). since my strut was still pressurised, I was wondering how you would get it apart safely ? i.e. If you undo the 41mm nut at the top, could it plant itself in your face ? :sly:


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

No bud, that is the DAMPER top mount nut, the actual nut is below that as a 18mm nut to the damper rod.

To depressurize the strut, all you do is undo the brass pressure retaining valve, it just unscrews, job done pal 

the air simply vents & there you have it 

I didn't undo the pinch bolt mate, as said, mine was seize solid  , so i undid the top mount, dropped it & there is enough room to undo the 4 M8 nuts using a small spanner.

Out of interest, how much are your refurb lads charging ? PM if you wish, my spares are on their way from abroad for a very reasonable cost.

The quality of work from the german supplier I used was terrible, torn o ring, no lube etc....

I will post a "how to" soon with the admin agreement.

It's that easy I'd do it for a few quid !
30min job to strip & rebuild.

regards,

Taz


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Hi Taz,
They are charging £165 + vat for the rebuild. They say they are machining a part for it - but I have yet to find out what that is (and whether it stops the "clunk"). Fingers crossed.
Cheers, Robbie


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi Rob that's a fair price... As that sounds like a airbag change then 😊 not sure what they are machining, my china sourced bags work out at $200 plus delivery and a bit of customs... I'm sure if I bought bigger quantities then I'd get a big discount, but am happy. Be interested to see a pic of the refurb strut before u fit to see their quality? But it sounds better than aerosus whom I used lol. Either way you are keeping your original damper which is a good thing 😊 look forward to hearing your report mate :wave:


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## Gorea4ii (Jan 11, 2016)

Hi guys, another 1st post here, really glad to join this extremely informative community!!:beer:

Its about 6 month of our friendship with 2006 v10 and since couple of the weeks already every morning i do understand that its time for air suspension maintenance, check attached photos. I was lucky to find the way air leaks. Taz, could you please take a look on my photos, what would you consider can be cause of air leak from inside of the top nut? My assumption - O rings or smth, still hope it is not an air spring. Looking on your first photo I suppose my problem could be in the smallest and one of the big one O rings, can these O ring seals be purchased apart? what are those part numbers? Any additional info/thoughts are appriciated!


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## lelievre12 (Nov 25, 2015)

I had hard suspension on my 2005 Phaeton and when you have it, you will know!! Its certainly NOT tire pressure. Its way harder than that. Its like the dampers are locked solid.

I checked J197 on VCDS and 'No faults found". I then looked at the damper amperage on VCDS and it was reading zero amps on all dampers. From the VW literature the 'softest' setting is when the dampers have 1800ma of current through them. Zero amps is when the damper is hardest.

See:










The 'hardest' damper setting is when 50ma of current is applied to the dampers so my VCDS reading of 0 amps is harder than that still!!

So I sent the car to the VW Dealer for a $180 diagnostic and they reported that all 4 dampers and the J197 controller need to be replaced. They quoted $8995. When I asked which damper was faulty, or whether VoA was paying for 3 of the dampers they avoided these questions and simply said the "Dampers were worn". (SONNEN VW in SAN RAFAEL, CA).

This all sounded suspicious so I replaced the controller with an eBay 3D0 907 553 C controller (1122 software) from a wreck. Its a little fiddly to change the controller as it is installed behind the relay box in the L/H trunk (boot) behind the "on-Board" battery (not the starter battery). However no tools are required as the relay pack clips out and so does the controller (See VW Vortex change Phaeton battery thread). Seemed worth spending $89 to check the controller before replacing $9000 worth of dampers????

Well after starting the new controller, it complained on VCDS with numerous errors (caused from being unplugged) but when these DTC's were cleared, it settled down fine. And the RESULT?


1. All dampers work PERFECTLY. Readings from VAG show up to 1800MA flowing through each damper as it should. Ride is smooth as silk (as it should be).

2. The newer style 3D0 907 553 C controller with 1122 software can control the older 2005 Phaeton dampers NO PROBLEM. 

3. If your VW dealer asks for $9000 to change your dampers for NO REASON, please please, DONT BELIEVE THEM!!. Unless you have a leaking airbag, perhaps your dampers are JUST FINE. Perhaps your controller needs resetting or replacement. That is all.


I must admit that I am in a bit of a state of shock having come so close to spending $9000 when only $89 for the controller was required. However when the dealer was unable to tell me which damper had failed, or whom was paying for the new parts, a little birdie inside my head said that something was very very wrong. Firstly, you can mix newer 3D0616039AD dampers with the older ones (no need to change all four) and its very unlikely that all four dampers would have failed at once. I feel very badly for those Phaeton owners whom may have spent $9K for nothing at all.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi folks, 

@ Gorea, yes, that leak is cause by the damper "O" ring in the top of the piston, it's probably a £0.50 pence part, VEW don't sell them but you could make one with an "O" ring kit.

The ONLY other leak path would be from the actual upper bush the piston bolts to ( this is a metal bush with a rubber insert, very tough I may add ! ).

Basically the piston passes through this & is sealed with a single "O" ring on the damper rod ( there is a small machined recess for it to sit ).

If you thoroughly clean the top mount area, dry it off & carefully apply the leak detection fluid, you should see the leaks from the piston / nut.

You only need to strip the strut off the car & disassemble, a few hours work. If you look at my previous posts, you'll see the SMALL "O" ring, I can measure a spare one, but it's virtually 11mm ID, CSD 2mm, i'd say shore hardness about 80, nitrile or Viton will do.

@ Levi, yes, VW will not care about you wasting your money on their solution, which is to replace everything !

I ended up spending too much using a german supplier, but in reality you can overhaul your strut yourself for about £160 for a new airbag assembly & new "O" rings if you do all the work yourself.

BTW< my china contact for replacement airbags came through http://www.airstrut1.com, bit random the website, but they do stock them bags !, VERY reliable & I now have a good source if other forum members wish to do this work themselves ! 

you certainly DO NOT need to spend £800 a corner for the priveldge of having the work done poorly !!!

Kind regards,

Taz :wave:


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Just to add, here are some pics I took when I dismantled the crappy one I got from Germany, shoddy workmanship lol 

In one of the pics, you'll see the damper rod upper "O" ring, which will most probably be the source of your air leak ( note the ripped "O" ring ! , no grease nothing !!! ) :



then there is the upper securing bush that is part of the airbag assembly itself ( this I feel won't leak as it's about an inch thick, but you can see the rubber bush...



you MUST use a terminal demount tool / make up one like I did, as the electrical PLUG must come off to pass through the upper airbag bush



I have now bought a proper laser terminal demount kit, but a bit of welding wire flattened will do if you are sympathetic to the connector ( new ones on ebay with new crimps are only £5 anyway ! )

Be gentle when stripping the damper, and use the correct tools & sympathy, it WILL come apart easily lads !




Hope this helps you sort your leaks, has for me !!! :wave:

Kind regards, Taz


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Got my strut back from the refurbishers. It looks OK. They said the damper was at fault so they changed it.











I fitted it but...I've still got a knocking noise. I'm gutted :facepalm:

I just can't work out what could be the cause. I've checked all the bushes, including changing the drop-link bushes. I disconnected the drop-link and drove the car gently but the knock is still there so it cannot be the antiroll bar.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Damn, that's not good mate, the only advice I could give is to borrow a mate, jack that corner of the car up ( after putting her I jacking mode ) and have a mate use a pry bar, long lump of wood under the tyre to load up the axle from full droop, you'll soon find the source of your knock mate.... On my e class the mot man who is a mate eagle eye spotted a failed lower wishbone ball joint the same way.... But it was so slight... I just thought it was the potholes around here! Silly question, track rods are good? 

Regards, taz


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Thanks for the shoulder to cry on Taz:facepalm:

Thanks also for your tips. When I get my joie de vivre back, I'll try with a big pry bar.
There is a really tiny bit of play in the inner tie bar, but there is no discernible noise when wobbling the steering wheel - Just that loud clunk when there is vertical movement over a pot hole or cats eyes.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Does sound like a lower balljoint mate....I'd ignore wiggling the steering wheels 1st mate... Just get the wheel almost off the ground such there is enough room to put a 5ft length of timber below the tyre and wiggle up and down to take the mass of the suspension, you'll soon hear or see the cause bud. Best have a mate do the wiggling. Oooerrr, and u watch under the car! Sure you'll find it, u come this far Rob, regards taz


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## Gorea4ii (Jan 11, 2016)

_Taz_ said:


> SMALL "O" ring, I can measure a spare one,


Hi Taz, whenever you be passing by that small ring could you please measure that one, I just want to make sure I have couple of that size before taking my strut off . Was able to find only full air spring kit including air bag ($), no one sell just O ring seals kit apart unfortunately. Thank you for your disassemble photo guide, that will help for sure!!




robbie-rocket-pants said:


> still got a knocking noise


Hi Rob, have you been looking on your tie rods, check this video


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Remeasured the o ring mate, it's. 11mm ID, thickness 2mm, viton or nitrile will suffice pal.


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Thanks for the video Gorea4ii. I'm 99% certain the noise is not in the steering mechanism because there is no noise at all with steering wheel movement.

Taz - I did what you suggested and spent an hour with a long piece of wood and a friend and levered / pulled / pushed in all directions with the wheel on and off but no joy.

It's bizarre, it makes more noise if I drive over cats eyes than if I go over a speed bump; i.e. Small high frequency bumps cause a more noticeable rattle / knock. Air Dominance have offered to have another look at the top of the strut (the part they didn't refurbish before), so I think they are an honest bunch.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Morning Rob, it sounds like something is either slightly loose, as high speed loss of load causes your annoying clunk. It's a shame you couldn't find the knock with the old wood lever trick, as it can knock as you come onto OR off a bump. Airdom must have disassembled the strut, else I'd hazard a guess that the damper top nut is loose, NOT the large top mount nut. Did they inspect the top strut plate? I guess you would have looked at this when you refitted it to the car... It could this needs replacing? Only clue would be to take apart the top mount and check the back face of the oval top mount washer for any polishing marks, as there should be none. Hope this helps, soz for the long post! :laugh:


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> It's bizarre, it makes more noise if I drive over cats eyes than if I go over a speed bump; i.e. Small high frequency bumps cause a more noticeable rattle / knock. Air Dominance have offered to have another look at the top of the strut (the part they didn't refurbish before), so I think they are an honest bunch.


That's exactly what mine used to do, it was particularly noticeable on one stretch of highway where the surface was like a washboard. Mine was caused by the droplinks. If you've already changed those, I'd look at the other bushings on the sway bar, and also the control arms. I don't believe my noises were ever completely cured until the control arms were replaced. It's highly unlikely to be anything to do with the struts, imo.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Rob mate,

Just seen you PM fella, don't give up 

I am now leaning to thinking it may be a ball joint in one of the arms that may be worn ?

If you can put the car on a standard steel ramp, use the pry bar at the top end / bottom arm joints & see if they are tight ?

Check the bolts too aren't loose, as these can work loose & allow movement ?

Just a thought !

do I recall somewhere in the thread that you have polybushed the front end ? In my old days, these are pressed in, but can work loose !

Are you sure these are tight, as they have little damping effect, as they are usually nylatron / very very hard rubber / machined to fit, but it not quite the correct size, they can cause all sorts of weird clunky noises !

regards,

Taz


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I know there is a subframe for the engine, but is there a separate subframe for the suspension? I ask because I just got a VW Self Study Guide covering Wheel Alignment and the illustration of the Phaeton's suspension makes it look like both the front and rear are mounted to subframes. More bushings equal more points of failure, some of which would be hidden while the suspension was still mounted.

(According to my new Self-Study Guide), the rear subframe has a bushing to hold the differential. That's another bushing that could be worn and hard to see unless you know where to look.


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## Phat One (Jul 10, 2009)

*Airbag supplier*

Hey Taz, do you have the part number on the Chinese website? Today there are no VW parts listed
Thanks
Graham


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Phat One said:


> Hey Taz, do you have the part number on the Chinese website? Today there are no VW parts listed
> Thanks
> Graham


I used http://www.airstrut1.com

My pt number was : 

VW phaeton pt number 3D0616040 


if you check e-bay nowadays, the same sellers are on there also. If you are based in the UK, you should be able to buy the bag assembly with the replacement "O" rings for about £160 each

I certainly will never use a re-conditioner after my shoddy service from that german outfit of cowboys.

HTH buddy


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Hi Taz,

when you refurbished your strut, did you find the "bag" fully sealed into the top of the strut i.e did you have to buy something like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Air-Spring-suspension-Fit-2004-2006-VW-Phaeton-2003-2008-Bentley-Continental-/291778124612?hash=item43ef54db44:g:YTcAAOSwB09YM7ut 
or can you just buy the bag to fit inside the metal housing ?

The reason I ask is I've bought a cheap used strut (£40) which has a slight leak and I am going to have a go at fixing it.

Thanks mate, Rob


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi Rob, long time no speak 

Yup, that's exactly what I got from china, they all are like this. It's as you state a full replacement cartridge that slides over the original damper.

Once you undo the top connector & the top nut, the whole lot comes off & gets thrown away.

That price is pretty good.

As you get new o rings etc, dead easy job.. I used some silicone grease.

Also, when you initially refit the strut, I used an airline to gently pump up the strut just to seat the LOWER part of the bellows into the lower part of the strut air receiver... ( say 10 psi ). Then simply reconnect the nylon airline from the cars Air compressor..

Few hours work 

Regards.


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Thanks very much Taz. 

I hope that once I've finished it will work with my 2011 car which should have a 3D0616040AD strut. The strut I'm refurbishing is a 3D0616040T from a 2006 car. 

Does anyone know what changes were made to the struts over the years ? 

I'm guessing the changes must have been relatively minor since companies such as this http://www.air-suspension-shop.com/VW-Phaeton-Air-suspension-strut-front-right-3D0616040-2003-2016_1 sell a strut which is compatible with all vehicles.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

I doubt there is any difference other than the price mate !

when i looked at my exchange unit, it was prob from another VW car / bentley, as the base looked different / had a bit hacked off it !

Still fitted fine.

As long as it's a 2 pin connector for the electrical damping, you'll be fine mate.

Don't forget the ride height calibration, a 10 min job if you got VCDS & a tape !

Report back how you get on, shame you not down in kent, I'd happily give you a hand !

Regards


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Thanks Taz.

There is an even cheaper part here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Front-Left-Right-Air-Spring-Suspension-Bag-Shock-For-04-06-VW-Phaeton-V8/301953069116?_trksid=p2055119.c100022.m2048&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37313%26meid%3Dedd9a3f697574ca6aa628fded949b206%26pid%3D100022%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D291909124723 but it is missing the brass valve connector. 

Do you know how this brass connector attaches to the housing (is there a nut on the inside of the housing perhaps ?)

Also, where do you push the prongs to demount the connector ?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I agree with Taz, other than the thickness of the rubber, I don't believe there's any functional difference between the struts. I replace a Q strut with AD without any problems.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Robbie, if you the bit of flat wire tool I made , you push each fork of the tool above and below the pins in the socket, you can see 2 small slots above and below each pin, push relatively hard, a nd then you can pull each pin out from the back of the plug.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Soz, on my phone, yup, the residual pressure valve just bolts in with a single brass stud and o ring...

On the oem parts, they seem to grind off the head after installing.

pic of the pins removed ( an old pic ! )

and a pic of how the tool releases the 2 tabs on each pin ( through the plug body )



















cheers.


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Brilliant. Thanks Taz & Martin


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Robbie, I should add that the dealer claims there's something different about my controller which means it can run old and new struts. I strongly suspect that's a load of old bollocks though. The hardware and software numbers on my controller are identical to everyone else. The dealer's position is that mine must have previously had suspension work done, but that also makes no sense because the prevailing theory was that there is no controller (new or old) that can run new & old struts, not to mention that the car was only 3 years old when I bought it and I have all the previous service records. Also, the re-manufacturing outfit I used are selling refurbished struts with their own serial number on them and don't differentiate between the early and late cars, indicating that they consider them to be functionally identical.

Either way I think you're good, since both the T and the AD struts are part of the second generation. It's the early Q struts that are supposedly different enough that the controller needs to be changed. I now have one AD strut (fitted new under warranty), and one refurbished strut (who knows what it was originally) in place of the Q strut I was running, and two original (presumably Q, I haven't looked) struts on the rear. Mine is a very early 2004 model, I believe it was actually manufactured early in 2003.

Assuming your experiment is successful, at that price I'd be very tempted to do the other side too. The reason I suggest that is because it's not that obvious if a strut develops a small leak. In retrospect, I should have figured it out, but I was running the car for about 6 months with a leaky strut which was likely causing the compressor to overrun. I don't know if you've pulled a strut off yet, but it's a really easy job, the only remotely awkward part being clearing the lower control arm for which you'll need two pairs of hands.


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Thanks Martin. 

I've become quite adept at pulling the strut off. The strut currently fitted to the car has been "worked" on a couple of times by refurbishers - and it has a minor leak at the gasket where the brass pressure retaining valve fits (as shown in the photo of my salvage strut). I've given up with "experts" bodging the car so I bought the salvage strut in order to play with it, see how it all works, and fix it up so I can either fit it one day to my car or perhaps sell it on to a needy person. 

Taz - do you think if I ground a couple of flats on the brass stud head, as shown, I could then use an adjustable spanner to tighten up the fitting to try to stop my leak ?


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Rob,
Why don't you try to apply epoxy resin where the leak is, once the strut is depressurised?
You might just need to prep the surface by rubbing it with a light abrading material such as scotch brite.

Gabriel


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi Rob, soz mate, been on 12hr shifts...

I'll take. A pic of how that lot goes together, the leak is a small o ring..

To be honest, if you are refurbishing this unit, just buy a new bag assembly, unless you are happy this has done low miles mate.

Pics to follow !

EDIT, here they are : I've taken them as if they were an exploded view & assembled... 



















and finally, where if bolts into the airbag housing 











And, yup, filing 2 flats on the soft brass set screw will do fine, just be gentle, as it's a brass banjo bolt.

Regards.

Taz


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Thanks Gabriel, I might try that idea if tightening the stud doesn't work.

Brilliant photos Taz, just what I needed to see. Thanks.

I will buy a new bag assembly for the salvage strut. The slight leak is on the strut currently fitted to the car so I thought I might be able to fix it in situ. It is strange that the manufacturers felt the need to grind the end off the stud once fitted


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Robbie, my new strut came with a new o ring for the air line connection, and a big notice about replacing it. When I pulled the old one off, it was rock hard.


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Just to add a little info as to how to de-mount the strut electrical connector :

I found that if you put the flat of a screwdriver under the longer forks of the pink insert, which is inside in the body of the connector, you can prise it upwards until you hear a click. With some long-nosed pliers you can then pull the pink part out which makes removing the pins much easier, using Taz's technique described a few posts above.

If you make a mess of it, the part number is 1J0973802 to search on ebay.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

All sorted then bud?


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

In a very detailed view it looks like this:








Use needle nose pliers to squeeze to get it to the unlocked position.








When all work is done, just push it back and it locks up nicely.

/Lennart


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Still working on it Taz, I'm waiting for a 41mm socket to arrive in order to undo the top nut.

Edit : Help Taz !

I've been trying for a few days to get the 41mm top nut off. I've made various tools to hold the strut still (I don't have a huge vice like you). I've got a 600mm breaker bar and using HUGE amounts of force, the nut will still not budge. Am I doing something silly e.g. is it a left hand thread or something ?


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi mate, got your pm, from memory, you mean the top mount nut that secures the airbag unit to the flexible top plate ? 

When I undone mine,I used a large imperial spanner from work, but I used my bench vise to HOLD the mount itself firmly, then I do recall having to use a small hammer on the spanner to loosen the nut initially, then you can undo by hand easily...

As the top mount nut is steel, and the airbag thread alu, it could be corrosion my have set I, but pretty unlikely as its so well kept out of the water by the bonnet, scuttle panel...

Do you have access to something to hold the top mount plate secure pal?? 

Worse comes to worse, a local garage should do this for a fiver... I reckon as you aren't gripping the top mount solid, it is enough to reduce the force tx to the nut!

Don't be dissuaded, it WILL YIELD! 

If you get stuck, pm, and I'll give you my mobile no' mate.

Regards.:wave:


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Edit, deffo, a standard rh thread mate.

Apologies mate, found a stripped pic of the top mount to help you... It's nothing to worry about, but you can conquer this bugger!! ( gave up with the phone in the pub ), from the home PC












hope this helps !


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Cheers Taz. :wave:
You renewed my enthusiasm. I made a wooden "thing" to bolt to the top of the strut and got an extension bar on my breaker bar. After using MASSIVE force, I heard a crack and the nut was free ! 










For info of others, the next bolt to be removed requires an 18mm offset ring spanner and a 9mm spanner to hold the damper still (see Taz's photo earlier on in the thread)


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Excellent use of a bit of timber! Good work bud! Told ya, you would beat it !

Enjoy a well earned beer.

Must admit, my vice is a saviour.... 

Regards


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

The saga continues...how did you separate the accumulator from the aluminium damper surround Taz ?


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Hi mate, easy peasy, you NEED to remove the airbag assembly from the damper, using the 2 spanners to undo the nut.... Then slide the airbag off... Then slide up off the damper, it will pull off with a good tug... Oh errr !

The air accumulator is a single piece, this will slide up the damper from the bottom, its simply held in place by the airbag and a few o rings.

Look at post #42 I think... It I show an exploded view of all the bits pal!


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Brill. Thanks again Taz.

I had to use a bit of persuasion with an old chisel to get the aluminium shroud to move. Then, as you said, it pulled off.










This is what the parts looked like:



















I guess there is no real need for me to pull the accumulator off. 
(I was wondering, out of curiosity whether you could make a left side strut into a right side strut, and vice versa, by moving the accumulator round 180 degrees ?)


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Rob mate, I think they are handed pal.... 

You done well mate!


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Even if you pull it off the strut, it's a single o ring that needs replacing, I would as you have now disturbed it all. You can probably buy these off the shelf... Nowt special mate .


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> Brill. Thanks again Taz.


I have a few questions, Rob. What did your cheap used strut come from? (Engine type) and what is the part number on the damper?

I'd like to look up the dampers to see if mere mortals can buy them.

-Eric


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Hi Eric,
I believe the the strut came from a 2006 3.0TDi, part no 3D0616040T.

Here is the label on the damper :










Cheers, Robbie


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> Hi Eric,
> I believe the the strut came from a 2006 3.0TDi, part no 3D0616040T.
> 
> Here is the label on the damper :
> ...


Thanks Robbie. 

No luck finding any of the numbers yet.

-Eric


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## kicku (Apr 8, 2018)

Here i am too, blame Eric for this! 

Great photos and info!
Really usefull for those who want the "made by me so it won't fail!" 

Maybe the clunk i heard on my P came from the gas shock absorber... the Sachs unit :facepalm:
If this is true...well the only fix will be a NEW ONE strut... NOT A REFURBISHED / REBUILD ONE. 
That's a lot of money...i think i will start from now on to like more and more the high volume of my old music cd's... :bs:

Thank you Eric for pointing me to this discussion.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

kicku said:


> Here i am too, blame Eric for this!
> 
> Great photos and info!
> Really usefull for those who want the "made by me so it won't fail!"
> ...


You're welcome but I think you may be onto something with the strut bearing.

As has been pointed out, the strut doesn't turn like a conventional strut. I don't know if the "Strut support bearing" is a true bearing or if VW just used that generic terminology. I haven't had mine apart or bought a used one to play with. I suspect from the pictures in this thread that it's more like a bushing. "Normal" strut bearings have a bearing inside a bushing and it's usually the bushing that gets sloppy. From the pictures Taz posted, it looks like the "strut support bearing" is really a bushing. 


I had the original right front strut on my '88 Scirocco fail a few days after I got an expensive alignment. That was a conventional strut with a coil spring instead of an air spring but it was very easy to tell the strut had failed. In that case, the right front of my Scirocco bounced. The strut seized and the only "suspension" I had left was from the tire. When I went down a less-than-perfect road, the right front bounced up and down over every bump. The old fashioned way to check shocks is to press the front or rear of the car by hand to see if it keeps bouncing when you take your hands off. I could get the right front of my Scirocco to bounce off the ground when I did that. 

My Scirocco has 60 series tires.

If your damper failed completely I think you would know it. The Phaeton might be too heavy to bounce like my Scirocco, but with 40 series tires, it would sure ride rough over every little uneven pavement. 

It is possible for a strut or shock to lose stiffness but I don't think that would cause noise. Unless all of the oil leaked out I think the strut would be compliant enough you wouldn't notice a difference. (At least not until you replaced the strut.) See below for my "too soft" Corrado story. 

My 1977 Ford has very soft shocks and it rides very, very good. Its suspension never makes noise except if I turn the wheels when parking. If I turn the wheel all the way to one side, I sometimes get a clunk. I am pretty sure the suspension is original except for maybe the shocks. I have owned it since 2009 and have never done anything to the suspension and the suspension is whisper quiet.

I have a Corrado and replaced the struts and shocks on it in about 2004. It has a VR6 engine and the parts guy sold me G60 struts. I didn't realize this until I installed them. When I drove over speed bumps in my apartment parking lot at 5 MPH, the front end would bounce way up and crash back down. The VR6 engine is heavier than the G60 engine and the KYB catalog was confusing. The parts guy refused to take the struts back. I replaced them with Koni Sport (Yellow) struts and shocks and the Corrado rode better and handled better. 

After that I realized that you can have shocks and struts that are too soft.

My Scirocco and Corrado examples show the extremes of struts being too stiff (seized) or too soft. I don't think Phaeton owners have experienced either extreme. Either that or they just get the struts replaced when they fail that drastically and don't post on forums about it. 


So, my Scirocco was too stiff, my Corrado was too soft and my Ford was just right. I am the Goldilocks of cars.


I would try to find a "strut support bearing". 


It would be great if we could buy each part of a strut separately. My bags haven't failed but I'd like to put fresh dampers and "strut support bearings" in. The air bags are just springs and with conventional shocks and struts you only replace them if you want stiffer springs or if the car is getting a complete suspension rebuild. 

-Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

_Taz_ said:


> Edit, deffo, a standard rh thread mate.
> 
> Apologies mate, found a stripped pic of the top mount to help you... It's nothing to worry about, but you can conquer this bugger!! ( gave up with the phone in the pub ), from the home PC
> 
> ...



Taz, are the strut support bearings just bushings or do they have bearings buried in them? From this picture it looks like it's strictly a bonded in bushing.

VW MK1 strut bearings have a bearing in the middle surrounded by a bushing. If I remember correctly the bearing is a needle bearing.

-Eric


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I'd be very surprised if anything around the top of the strut is causing noise. As Taz stated earlier, the strut doesn't appear to work like a Macpherson setup, that upper bracket bolts to the body at three points, there might be some movement against a rubber bearing underneath, but most of the non-vertical movement is through the control arm bearings and the lower strut mount bearing.


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Agree Martin - I don't see how any knocking noise could realistically be generated by the top mount as everything is tightly bolted together. 

I spent half of yesterday flat on my back underneath my car with pry-bars and levers trying to find any hint of where the knocking noise could come from, but to no avail 

I disconnected both drop links (again) and went for a short drive; the noise was still there so it cannot be either of them or the anti-roll bar.

Having tried 3 different shock absorbers, I think it is unlikely that yours shocks would be the culprit kicku (if, of course, we are experiencing the same type of clunk ! )


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## kicku (Apr 8, 2018)

I am a little confused for now...anyway...here i have a friend with a test bank for shock absorbers. It's a kind a lift who raise just one corner and together with this start to vibrate in directions N-S or W-E. If i'll find something, i will let know here.
The upper support seen on the image ( up ), it has clearly a rubber between the inside ring and the outside bracket. I suppose that rubber it's cracked / cutted and that's why the clunk. I hope it's not the case...because that mean i have to change the entire shock absorber.
Did not find anything on the rebuild master tech site. They only sell rebuilded units, a few line pipes and few components. All of these at astronomic prices, not to mention i have to pay customs yet...
Hope someone will have luck and find "il colpevole" for this clunk.
I did say i am a little confused...because i have noticed days ago, on the road, the strut has started to vibrate after a few little holes on the street, the classic symptoms of the empty shock absorbers. Checked but did not see any oil leak or so... so...doh...:banghead:


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

kicku said:


> I did say i am a little confused...because i have noticed days ago, on the road, the strut has started to vibrate after a few little holes on the street, the classic symptoms of the empty shock absorbers. Checked but did not see any oil leak or so... so...doh...:banghead:


Hmm... Interresting. I am chasing a minor clunk as well. I did change the rubbber/plastic cover on one of the front struts and noticed a very minor oil leak. You will not detect an oil leak from the outside as all the oil will be catched inside the strut. It will not be detected with less than lifting the cover. That needs care to save the metal securing ring to get it back in place again as it is not intended to be removed. It is possible though. I can’t see the direct link between low oil level and that kind of clunk but it may be a possible cause.

Lennart



Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


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## kicku (Apr 8, 2018)

Well, i will release the bottom wrapper and raise the rubber cover just to look better under that rubber cover.
If there is damage to the internal bushings of the shock absorber, there will be a gas leag together with small quantity of oil. At least all shock absorbers can be checked if it's leaking in this way...let's say it's the cheap way :laugh:


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

kicku said:


> The upper support seen on the image ( up ), it has clearly a rubber between the inside ring and the outside bracket. I suppose that rubber it's cracked / cutted and that's why the clunk. I hope it's not the case...because that mean i have to change the entire shock absorber.


As you would expect that rubber is extremely tough and durable.
Having changed the whole strut 3 times, including that top mount, it cannot be anything due to the strut (at least in my case ).
I did think it could be a mounting on the subframe that was causing it, but having closely examined and used a pry-bar on them, they seem to be in perfect condition.
Surely it can't be an engine or gearbox mount as it only occurs when the front right wheel goes over the slightest bump / dip in the road.

If only someone could get the car onto a vibrating road simulator (if such a thing exists) then you could use "chassis ears" to pinpoint it.

I'm sorry to hear others are having the same frustration, but I'm also glad more brains are starting to work on the problem


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Robbie, how old are your ball joints? I chased a similar knock on my other car for months, there was no play in the ball joint on the control arm, but that turned out to be the source of the knock. It was most noticeable on mine at slow speeds, just the lip of the garage floor was sufficient to cause the knock.


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Hi Martin,

On the front right suspension,I've replaced three out of the four control arms, even though they appeared perfect (i.e the two arms at the top and the lower front arm). 

I took the fourth one off (the lower rear) and had a play with it and it also felt perfect so I put it back on as I was fed up with replacing good parts - so maybe, with your advice, I'll change that one in the future.
thanks for the idea 

Robbie.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

My other car is somewhat simpler, a measly one ball joint per side....


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

I replaced all four plus droplinks on both sides. Lemförder/TRW so they should be the same as VW original parts. Clunk still there... After noticing that it is very hard to identify where strange noises are coming from in these cars I am beginning to wonder if it may be something in some door or somthing similar. It is a minor problem but still a bit annoying. I think mine is a bit too ”tiny” to come from the subframe bushings.

Lennart


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

kicku said:


> Did not find anything on the rebuild master tech site. They only sell rebuilded units, a few line pipes and few components. All of these at astronomic prices, not to mention i have to pay customs yet...


That's why you have to contact them to see if they will sell you a "Strut Support Bearing". They have to have a source for them to put on rebuilt struts. 

In the U.S. they don't always charge customs. I think I have paid customs maybe 3 times in my lifetime.


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## twgin (Apr 25, 2012)

Reawakening this old thread after about a year ! A few days ago my P started sagging after engine stop, right hand side, so probably that infamous right had air strut leaking... I have removed the strut and plan to rebuild it per Taz's instructions and photos... I found a kit on eBay which includes the two need o-rings, but I also want to replace the very small o-ring on the air line connecting to the side of the strut. Does anyone have the specs on this small o-ring ? Also would be interested in any torque values to use when putting it back together...

As ususal, great thread amongst others that allows us to keep these cars going at a reasonable cost !

Thanks,

Terry


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

A standard o-ring will work on the air line, they ship one with the re-manufactured struts. From memory, I think it's 5nm on that nut, not sure about the others in the strut itself.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I'm getting ready to replace the airbag on my left front strut. I have the bag and most of the tools but the 41mm socket. I plan to crack it loose whilst still installed on the car. I eBayed the socket and a 1" breaker bar to that end. The 41mm nut just laughed at my German Knipex smooth jaw water pump pliers. I may also try epoxying the fitting or replacing its O-Ring while waiting for the tools to come in. 

I have new struts but the dealer can't pump them up until the middle of next month. 

Since it took me forever to find this thread, I thought I would bump it to the top even though I don't have anything valuable to add (yet).

-Eric


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> I'm getting ready to replace the airbag on my left front strut. I have the bag and most of the tools but the 41mm socket. I plan to crack it loose whilst still installed on the car. I eBayed the socket and a 1" breaker bar to that end. The 41mm nut just laughed at my German Knipex smooth jaw water pump pliers. I may also try epoxying the fitting or replacing its O-Ring while waiting for the tools to come in.
> 
> I have new struts but the dealer can't pump them up until the middle of next month.
> 
> ...


Hi Eric,
If you have new struts I wouldn't worry about getting the dealer to pump them up. I would just fit them. Having fitted/refitted/refurbished front struts multiple times I know that the car will 'inflate' them without problem once fitted.

To update the thread with my issue, it was eventually solved by fitting a new Chinese strut. I believe the clunking problem lies within the damper and is perhaps to do with it losing gas pressure over time. This is why a used or 'refurbished' strut may not fix the problem as the damper could just be an old one clothed in a shiny surround with a new air bag. The damper cannot realistically (to my knowledge) be re-gassed.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> Hi Eric,
> If you have new struts I wouldn't worry about getting the dealer to pump them up. I would just fit them. Having fitted/refitted/refurbished front struts multiple times I know that the car will 'inflate' them without problem once fitted.
> 
> To update the thread with my issue, it was eventually solved by fitting a new Chinese strut. I believe the clunking problem lies within the damper and is perhaps to do with it losing gas pressure over time. This is why a used or 'refurbished' strut may not fix the problem as the damper could just be an old one clothed in a shiny surround with a new air bag. The damper cannot realistically (to my knowledge) be re-gassed.


I was going to say the same thing, I don't see any good reason to have the dealer inflate them. Also agree about the dampers, I'm pretty sure that the weird severe vibration problem I had was because they'd refurbished the spring but not swapped the damper. They do come with a lifetime warranty though, so they swapped it without any fuss.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Normally I would agree but I want to make sure all Ts are crossed and all i s are dotted in case of warranty problems. If I was having the dealer do the work I wouldn't worry at all since it would be on them if they skipped a step.

I have played with the air bag and it compresses and comes back up when I press it down. I'd imagine if I compressed and released the struts they would be fine.

If Koni made the dampers, maybe they would be rebuildable. My bag is just a temporary fix.

Here's the pages from the manual:


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