# T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6?



## MKIV VR6 BULLDOG (Jan 25, 2005)

I just wanted to know what everyones opinions are about turbo sizes. My friends has a MK2 with a 96 VR6 engine and a T4 60-1 it seems to be slow and disappointing. I don't know if it is not setup right or what. I want to get a turbo with intercooler on a daily driver 01 VR6 GTI and about 10 psi for now. I want to have the turbo spool quickly and still have good stock bottom end feel. I just want to know if the t4 is suppose to be good for that or should i look into a t3/t4. Thanks for the info.


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## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (MKIV VR6 BULLDOG)*

i personally would never use a t3/t4 on a vr6. Though some t3/t4 turbos like the t3/67 or similar have been proven setups on hondas,etc. I have used a t4 60-1 non hi-fi and loved it, spooled up pretty quick even with a big exhaust housing on it. And my most recent setup inlcuded a GT40 turbo that made great power. If I were you, I would go with a t 60-1 with maybe a .68AR anda p-trim wheel. Would spool up quick and have no problem making 400+whp. The problem on your buddies car, probably has to do with tuning issues.


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (vr6chris)*


_Quote »_ personally would never use a t3/t4 on a vr6.

Regaurdless of trim?


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## MKIV VR6 BULLDOG (Jan 25, 2005)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (.:VRT:.)*

Well the trim does matter, I am just trying to find out if i should get a t4 or a little bit smaller. Im scaried of the lag and i don't want to put out the money and then not like the results. Thanks again for the info. also what is the dif between hifi and non hifi thanks


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (MKIV VR6 BULLDOG)*

With the inherent torque of the VR6, lag is the least of your worries.


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (need_a_VR6)*

i got kinetic kit. i suggest strait t4 60-1 or t66. its the future.


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## BoostFactory (May 27, 2005)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (DrunkenMunkey)*

Most T3/T4's would be rather small on a VR6, however you can get some made that will be more than enough, case and point SC61, a T3/T4 type turbo made by precision that has a GT40 compressor and at least a 52mm (what turbonetics would call a stage5) turbine wheel. You can also get a Garrett T3/T67 with a .82 hotside and stage5 turbine wheel that should be than enough to put you over the 700whp mark
hth
Paul


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## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (BoostFactory)*

listen to the man above http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I have a question, might be stupid but I gotta ask ... would running a certain amount of boost, say 10 psi, on a T4 produce more power than a T3/T4 running same boost ?


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## BoostFactory (May 27, 2005)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (VR6rocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6rocks* »_listen to the man above http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I have a question, might be stupid but I gotta ask ... would running a certain amount of boost, say 10 psi, on a T4 produce more power than a T3/T4 running same boost ?

Not a stupid question at all, but fact is that it's not always true. For example, for a while the most popular turbo for the VR crowd was the T04E 60-1 with a .58 turbine housing and a P trim turbine wheel. 
Compare this to a T3/T4 57 trim with a .63/3 since it what it seems to be what most people are running and you'll see that both the compressor and turbine wheels are bigger, the exhaust housings are somewhat comparable so the full T4 will make more power because it can move more air with the compressor and get rid of more backpressure with the bigger turbine side, often referred as hotside.
Now, compare that same turbo to an SC61 or a Garrett T3/T67 and the last two turbos that are basically T3/T4's will make way more power than the 60-1, specially the last one.
hope this helps
Paul


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## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (BoostFactory)*

So 10 psi is 10 psi on the cold side, the only difference is how much back pressure you produce on the hot side in order to provide those 10 psi, right ?
So the reason why a turbo with a small turbine will choke on the top end is because of the high back pressure ? Does this also cause boost to fall off ?


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## BoostFactory (May 27, 2005)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (VR6rocks)*

10psi is 10psi which means nothing but the amount of pressure, 10psi from a 57 trim T4 compressor and 10psi from 67mm compressor are totally different though. The 67mm (inducer) will outflow the 57trim because it's bigger. What's gonna spool the turbo will be the turbine side on this one, the bigger the turbine housing and wheel the more lag you'll have and the least amount of backpressure, this will also cause for your torque to be moved up which will translate into more hp since hp is only a fuction of torque and the rpm it's made at time 5252
Hp= (Tq x rpm) / 5252
hth
Paul


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## patatron (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (BoostFactory)*

I couldn't be happier with how well my T3/T4 works with my VR, Barely any turbo lag, and more power than I know what to do with.


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## BoostFactory (May 27, 2005)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (patatron)*

Yes, different people will want different powerbands, that's why i say that there's not "right turbo" for any application since "right" will only apply to a specific individual http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AAdontworkx3 (Oct 1, 2002)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (BoostFactory)*

True that BoostFactory... Though, i am driving my buddies kinetics kit with the "stage 3" wheel in a MK2 and the low end is unbearable... literally, the car breaks loose in 3rd...even with a peloquin... Honestly, I'd prefer something WITH lag just to stop the wheel spin. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (AAdontworkx3)*

Anyone run a t4e 60-1? I'm looking to do this turbo, what software should be run to use this turbo?


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## dragonfli_x (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (AAdontworkx3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AAdontworkx3* »_True that BoostFactory... Though, i am driving my buddies kinetics kit with the "stage 3" wheel in a MK2 and the low end is unbearable... literally, the car breaks loose in 3rd...even with a peloquin... Honestly, I'd prefer something WITH lag just to stop the wheel spin. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

[points to him ^^^] that's what I want if I went with a turbo for my vr6 (and took the time to completely dismantle my SC kit from the car


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## patatron (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (AAdontworkx3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AAdontworkx3* »_True that BoostFactory... Though, i am driving my buddies kinetics kit with the "stage 3" wheel in a MK2 and the low end is unbearable... literally, the car breaks loose in 3rd...even with a peloquin... Honestly, I'd prefer something WITH lag just to stop the wheel spin. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thats funny, I have never heard about anyone complaining about not enough turbo lag. But I do understand what you mean, I am running the kinetic VRT kit on a VR6 in a 1977 Rabbit, so I understand your wheelspin woes (And yes, I also have a Peloquin). http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


















_Modified by patatron at 12:57 PM 9-3-2005_


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## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (MKIV VR6 BULLDOG)*

Depends on your HP goals. For me, it was ~300-350, I made 363 on 14psi on my T3/T04E 60/.63. I'm also sure I can hit over 400 with this turbo. Spool up is also nice at 3500rpm.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (patatron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *patatron* »_











Did you relocate your TB on that stock intake manifold? Maybe I am going nuts but it looks like your turbo outlet goes toward the driver's side past the normal stock TB location. Did you reposition the throttle body to run an intercooler? Post a pic with the engine cover off if so.


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## patatron (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_
Did you relocate your TB on that stock intake manifold? Maybe I am going nuts but it looks like your turbo outlet goes toward the driver's side past the normal stock TB location. Did you reposition the throttle body to run an intercooler? Post a pic with the engine cover off if so.









I should have explained that a little better, I did that so I could have a shorter intercooler pipe run, My total pipe length is 8".








P.S. The yellow paint was to see if the hood was hitting the TB.










_Modified by patatron at 5:33 PM 9-3-2005_


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (patatron)*

That's pretty clever! Since the intercooler was shiny, I just saw the reflection of the blue hood and it made the core nearly invisible until I knew what I was looking for. Does that cooler do a nice job of cooling the charge? It seems pretty small, even for an a/w unit. 
Nice work none the less http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## patatron (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_That's pretty clever! Since the intercooler was shiny, I just saw the reflection of the blue hood and it made the core nearly invisible until I knew what I was looking for. Does that cooler do a nice job of cooling the charge? It seems pretty small, even for an a/w unit. 
Nice work none the less http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Being that I shoved all this in a rabbit, I was left with little option as far as going with a larger unit, I still have yet to hook up the water system due to I'm waiting for my pump to show up. It has already made a difference with out the water though, I was suprised by that. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







I am trying to keep the outside of the car appering as stock as possibly (Sleeper), So a front mount was not an option.










_Modified by patatron at 5:33 PM 9-3-2005_


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (patatron)*

Hey, size doesn't matter... it's what you do with it....








I am sure it is a welcome addition to your kinetic kit. So long as you have a decent reservoir, pump and heat exchanger setup, I can't see this not giving you positive results. If you are keeping the t3/t4 and staying at 'mild' boost settings, I'm sure it will be great


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## patatron (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_Hey, size doesn't matter... it's what you do with it....








I am sure it is a welcome addition to your kinetic kit. So long as you have a decent reservoir, pump and heat exchanger setup, I can't see this not giving you positive results. If you are keeping the t3/t4 and staying at 'mild' boost settings, I'm sure it will be great









Not staying with mild boost.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (patatron)*

Well, I guess that depends on your definition of mild.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (BoostFactory)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BoostFactory* »_10psi is 10psi which means nothing but the amount of pressure, 10psi from a 57 trim T4 compressor and 10psi from 67mm compressor are totally different though. The 67mm (inducer) will outflow the 57trim because it's bigger. What's gonna spool the turbo will be the turbine side on this one, the bigger the turbine housing and wheel the more lag you'll have and the least amount of backpressure, this will also cause for your torque to be moved up which will translate into more hp since hp is only a fuction of torque and the rpm it's made at time 5252
Hp= (Tq x rpm) / 5252
hth
Paul

Thanks, that the kind of explanation I was looking for http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 1SickWhtDub (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (VR6rocks)*

good thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
depending on my funds this winter i was hoping to piece together or at least start to piece together a turbo setup, and i was wondering which turbo to go with...i was lookin for about 300-350whp daily driven so a really safe tune....im most likely gunna get a 60-1 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BoostFactory (May 27, 2005)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (1SickWhtDub)*

The earlier VR's all ran T04 60-1's with .58/P hotsides, this setup was good to about [email protected], good for a migh to high 11's on a smowhat streetable Mk3 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Most people tend to like it a lot
hth
Paul


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## OrionShadow (May 14, 2004)

so whats the "best" for a daily driver?? the t3/t4? or a straight t04 ?


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## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (OrionShadow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OrionShadow* »_so whats the "best" for a daily driver?? the t3/t4? or a straight t04 ?

I'm gonna have to say a T3/T04E or SC61


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## _REMUS 13 (May 3, 2005)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (97jazzgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *97jazzgti* »_Anyone run a t4e 60-1? I'm looking to do this turbo, what software should be run to use this turbo?

quick a2 runs that turbo and that car HAULS ASS. Well, HAULS ASS ain't the word...
18psi + mk2 vrturbo with LSD = torque steer so bad it'll yank your car into oncoming traffic.


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## uncutpogo (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (patatron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *patatron* »_










I'm no pro but I will NEVER do this. why would you put the IC on top of the Turbo? it just gets too hot backthere to me that is just not the place to put your IC.


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## quick A2 (Oct 1, 2004)

*Re: T3/T4 too small for 12V VR6? (97jazzgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *97jazzgti* »_Anyone run a t4e 60-1? I'm looking to do this turbo, what software should be run to use this turbo?

I do.. .70AR both sides love it the turbo is good enout for me. I'm running EIP software and FMU, I will upgrade to Standalone soon becuase my set up has changed slighly. If you are interested in the EIP setup I have just let me know
Here is a old pic of my setup


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