# vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences?



## GTTechnics (Apr 2, 2003)

For my vr6t project, I am seriously thinking about using the kinetic manifold/dp combo. Right now though, they only have a 2.5" dp available (with no real release date for the 3"). Another obstacle is that no manufacturer (that I am aware of) makes a 3" cat-back exhaust, which means I will have to get one custom made, which often leads to strange noises and premature failure








Obviously in theory the 3" turboback _should_ spool faster and free a couple ponies up top....but with all thinkgs considered I don't know if I want to go through all of this just to free up 3whp and spool 100rpms faster








Anyone have any *real* before and after experiences to help me make up my mind on this?....and if it matters 350-400whp is my goal


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (GTTechnics)*

There is NO comparison between a 2.5" and a 3". I gained 60whp @ 15psi going from a 2.5" to a 3". The turbo spools tremendously faster. It's a MAJOR difference.


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (cabzilla)*

ive been looking into this for a minute now. TT makes and over axle pipe that is 3in but only aluminized. So the rest is easy to make the exhaust.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_ It's a MAJOR difference. 


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Everyone that suffers from ~low hp, and doesn't 'get'
how other folks seem to make great power at low boost,
is running a 2.5" exhaust....

-Jeff


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## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (Jefnes3)*

Hey my 2.25" nuespeed exhaust rocks,








3" or an electric dump soon.


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

will the differences be so noticeable and dramatic even if it was a 2.5' that flows well?


_Modified by herbehop at 12:08 PM 9-12-2005_


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_will the differences be so noticeable and dramatic even if it was a 2.5' that flows well?

_Modified by herbehop at 12:08 PM 9-12-2005_


I don't think Jeff and I could have been any clearer. I had a 2.5 TT with no cat and still gained 60 whp with a 3"


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_I don't think Jeff and I could have been any clearer. I had a 2.5 TT with no cat and still gained 60 whp with a 3"

ok, I just wanted to confirm this,


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Everyone that suffers from ~low hp, and doesn't 'get'
how other folks seem to make great power at low boost,
is running a 2.5" exhaust....

-Jeff

Exactly. I"m running a 2.5" exhaust. Except I DON'T WONDER why I'm only making 250whp/280wtq. I already know I need a bigger exhaust







.
I've heard these stories over and over again about how it frees up soo much more power on the turbo VR6's.


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (nater)*

Try running a cut-out directly after the downpipe... makes the 3" exhaust seem tame


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (AlwaysInBoost)*

demons are running amuck on the vortex. devils and evil souls of power are all 3 inches tall. 
so where is the 3in builders that are ss. germany has acid falling from the sky.


_Modified by DrunkenMunkey at 9:08 PM 9-12-2005_


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (DrunkenMunkey)*

my car still has a 2.25" crush bent exhaust with a stock vr muffler







, it's a 16v tho, but still 
It also has a 2.5" dp


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## vweuroracer (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (skillton)*


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## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (vweuroracer)*

Porsche people seem to think so too..
no cats, no muffler =


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (skillton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skillton* »_my car still has a 2.25" crush bent exhaust with a stock vr muffler







, it's a 16v tho, but still 
It also has a 2.5" dp

one other thing to mention. Having a larger diameter pipe pipe like a 2.5" downpipe flow into a smaller diameter pipe like a 2.25" stock exhaust is more restricting & power robbing then having just a straight 2.5" exhaust system. Point being don't have a smaller exhaust then your downpipe diameter if you care about power.


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## rivethead (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote »_
demons are running amuck on the vortex. devils and evil souls of power are all 3 inches tall. 
so where is the 3in builders that are ss. germany has acid falling from the sky


Understand the reason for going SS. Having a hard time finding it or don't have the cash. Why not go with a standard exhaust and paint it with a high temp header paint to help with the rust. BTW a good aluminized exhaust should be coated inside as well as out to help with the rust issue. A lot of the cheaper stuff out there only has the outside coated, thus the reputation for rusting quickly.


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (rivethead)*

germanys acid is evil or rain. cadium plated brakes will rust after about a 5 min rain shower. 
so then does tt coat there 3 in aluminized over axle pipe?


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

I don't think Jeff and I could have been any clearer. I had a 2.5 TT with no cat and still gained 60 whp with a 3"

Is that at the same boost levels. So 10psi with 2.5 to 3 inch what can we see in gains.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DrunkenMunkey* »_Is that at the same boost levels. So 10psi with 2.5 to 3 inch what can we see in gains.


Yeah, same boost levels. Why is it so hard to accept this? If your tune can handle the change, 50whp isn't out of the question, plus a 500+ rpm faster spool.


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

i bought a turbo kit that may of given me 80bhp thats why its so difficult to understand. this is my 5th turbo car. turbo trans am, mk III supra, turbo crx, and a talon tsi. none of which gained 60bhp on exhaust. closest i saw was on a turbo II rx7 with intake and exhaust. id just like to see tt vs custom 3in. 
the other thing is if kinetic made 245 bhp with 3 in the rest of us are only running 180-190 bhp. 
not trying to be an ass but i just want to put my money towards the correct thing.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DrunkenMunkey* »_i bought a turbo kit that may of given me 80bhp thats why its so difficult to understand. this is my 5th turbo car. turbo trans am, mk III supra, turbo crx, and a talon tsi. none of which gained 60bhp on exhaust. closest i saw was on a turbo II rx7 with intake and exhaust. id just like to see tt vs custom 3in. 
the other thing is if kinetic made 245 bhp with 3 in the rest of us are only running 180-190 bhp. 
not trying to be an ass but i just want to put my money towards the correct thing.

Whatever dude, I'm telling you what I saw back to back on the dyno. I really have no reason to continue trying to tell you how it is. Keep your 2.5" and keep on not making big power, it really makes no difference to me, I've got a 3". I wasn't talking super-low-boost non-IC turbo kits, either. 


_Modified by cabzilla at 10:11 AM 9-13-2005_


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## 619 (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

anybody know if there is any emissions issue (california) going 3"?


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## vweuroracer (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: (619)*


_Quote, originally posted by *619* »_anybody know if there is any emissions issue (california) going 3"?

probably.


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

all im saying is say that your pushing 30psi and making 60 bhp. most wont push more then 10 to 15 psi. ive been asking the same question with out answers. this is my first turbo vr. i made 385 wheel hp in my talon at 27psi with 2.5 mandrel bend exhaust. would 3 in given me over 400. i just would like a answer for a dummy like me. i dont know and i know there are proven power guys on here like mole.


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## vweuroracer (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DrunkenMunkey* »_all im saying is say that your pushing 30psi and making 60 bhp. most wont push more then 10 to 15 psi. ive been asking the same question with out answers. this is my first turbo vr. i made 385 wheel hp in my talon at 27psi with 2.5 mandrel bend exhaust. would 3 in given me over 400. i just would like a answer for a dummy like me. i dont know and i know there are proven power guys on here like mole.

YES, you would have had over 400.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*

Why is making people do things right like pulling teeth? I made like 54 whp @ 15psi by going to a 3".






















































































































































_Modified by cabzilla at 12:33 PM 9-13-2005_


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

i surrender with this said just to be an ass. ill go 4inch exhaust and make 120 hp then. 
id just like to see it in something. not ass dyno or anything like that. im sure there is power there but then what if people just dump from the dp. what kinda power from a strait dump. 


_Modified by DrunkenMunkey at 9:54 PM 9-13-2005_


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*

Look man I'm trying to help you. I made over 50 whp @ 15psi going to a 3" from a 2.5" with no other changes. You don't want to listen, fine. I don't care how much power you make. I don't have any interest in making your car faster. I have enough power for two cars.


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

come on now its not an attack issue. i can tell you your car is not fast. faster then what i drive but not faster then what i ride. show me a dyno sheet then. show all of us proof. then sell our exhaust system because you will be a rich man. 
so how much power are the guys dumping from the dp making? im not trying to make any of this personal. im sure you have a quick car and make power but please share with the snails of the world.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DrunkenMunkey* »_come on now its not an attack issue. i can tell you your car is not fast. faster then what i drive but not faster then what i ride. show me a dyno sheet then. show all of us proof. then sell our exhaust system because you will be a rich man. 
so how much power are the guys dumping from the dp making? im not trying to make any of this personal. im sure you have a quick car and make power but please share with the snails of the world.










Call ATP and get George to release my sheets, they don't allow public access to their dyno anymore. A touch over 500whp @ 63xx rpm. Keep on resisting the 3", I really don't care.


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

im not resisting 3in. make it worth my money is what im asking. this is my first build on a turbo vr. if you make 500 hp i would just like to hit 350 ballpark. 
congrats on your 500. 
well ATP lets see the dynos if he paid for pulls then release the numbers.


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*


_Quote »_Call ATP and get George to release my sheets, they don't allow public access to their dyno anymore








Ok man it seems as though you want to be poked with a long stick. You mean to tell me that you dynoed on ATP's dyno and you weren't allowed to get a print out of the results? And on top of that your asking him to CALL ATP and ask them for YOUR results. Christ I couldn't even get ATP on the phone when I purchased their products, what chance does he have of getting a copy of YOUR dyno that they apparently wouldn't even release to YOU?







LMAO! I normally don't poke at people too often but your kinda being an a$$. I'm in no way shape or form doubting that a 3" exhaust is the way to go, just your methods of getting a point across.


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 3:38 PM 9-13-2005_


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_







Ok man it seems as though you want to be poked with a long stick. You mean to tell me that you dynoed on ATP's dyno and you weren't allowed to get a print out of the results? And on top of that your asking him to CALL ATP and ask them for YOUR results. Christ I couldn't even get ATP on the phone when I purchased their products, what chance does he have of getting a copy of YOUR dyno that they apparently wouldn't even release to YOU?







LMAO! I normally don't poke at people too often but your kinda being an a$$. 


Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's ATP, what do you expect? It's like trying to get water out of a rock.


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote »_you dynoed on ATP's dyno and you weren't allowed to get a print out of the results?

Your being 100% serious?


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_Your being 100% serious?


Yep. Out of ink cartridges.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DrunkenMunkey* »_im not resisting 3in. make it worth my money is what im asking. this is my first build on a turbo vr. if you make 500 hp i would just like to hit 350 ballpark. 
congrats on your 500. 
well ATP lets see the dynos if he paid for pulls then release the numbers. 


The 'trick' the 3" inch isn't necessasrily that you make more ~power.
It just happens at lower boost.
or in Cabzilla's case same boots and more power.
Why? better flow thats it...simple.
Opionion:~385hp ~27psi
is too much boost to make that kind of power.
THIS is why you should run a 3" exhaust.
Did you do this on pump gas?
-Jeff



_Modified by Jefnes3 at 9:49 PM 9-13-2005_


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote »_Yep. Out of ink cartridges.


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

my understanding has been exhaust velocity. jefnes im a firm believer in what you have to say. 3 inch definatley has its benifits. so would an atp virtual exhaust before the cat make a great difference. 
i definatly like to go 3 inch and be mandrel but i dont have all of the great things of the state in germany.
new question, if i thermal wrap a tt exhaust the velocity should increase would this help say at 10#s.
im not going to over due the dsm nubers. look at buschurs stage II and you have my goals. 27psi was a spike that settled at 24psi. slow bleed but still fast with only 2.5 mandrel. oh and disconnected rear for the pull. oh and on sunoco pumped. this was just for 3 pulls to do this. i ran at 19 to 22 psi normally. pending on gas and knock. sorry i cant prove these numbers. i sold the car in 00 before i went to korea. the guy blew it up at 28psi 2 weeks later. bastard wouldnt sell it back either.

_Modified by DrunkenMunkey at 8:08 PM 9-14-2005_


_Modified by DrunkenMunkey at 8:14 PM 9-14-2005_


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## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_Call ATP and get George to release my sheets, they don't allow public access to their dyno anymore. A touch over 500whp @ 63xx rpm. Keep on resisting the 3", I really don't care.

I'd like to see this dyno. It's all too convient that they just happened to be out of ink the day you hit 500whp. If that had happened, you would have gone and bought them ink so you could brag about it online.
First it's 488whp, now it's a touch over 500whp? On a tiny 60-1 hi-fi... come on dude. The more you push it past 16 pounds, the LESS efficient it gets. Just stop talking about it or show proof.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (I am Jack's VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *I am Jack’s VR6* »_I'd like to see this dyno. It's all too convient that they just happened to be out of ink the day you hit 500whp. If that had happened, you would have gone and bought them ink so you could brag about it online.
First it's 488whp, now it's a touch over 500whp? On a tiny 60-1 hi-fi... come on dude. The more you push it past 16 pounds, the LESS efficient it gets. Just stop talking about it or show proof.

Here we go again. Need I mention the two times prior to my runs that the dyno was broken? The RPM pickup was fried and we were getting 2-3000 hp figures. A whole dyno day's worth of people got sent home. It's ATP, you of all people should know how they work. Who exactly am I going to get to help me? Art? George? I've got a better chance of Jesus appearing in front of me with the dyno sheet than to get George on the phone. 
You are certainly the foremost authority on the 60-1. Kindly disregard that Bill Schimmel (who has serious turbo knowledge deficiencies compared to you) has taken it past 500whp numerous times. The 60-1 enters its peak efficiency at ~17psi, leaving it around 22. You wouldn't know that, though, would you? You blew your rings trying to run an FMU and 17psi* without a wideband on 91 octane
*Bet you didn't know that an autometer boost gauge reads a low average of the boost you see. My MAP readings for "15" psi are averaging up in the 17-18 psi range, and this is with the boost controller gain set fairly agressively. Your $35 manual is likely far less consistent than that. 
The precise reason I don't lust after my dyno sheets is that I don't care about internet chest-pounding. I will be the first to admit that it entertains me to talk **** online. The numbers I quote are used to validate my points, the numbers I make are used on the street. You're more than welcome to experience my internet hp first hand.


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## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *I am Jack’s VR6* »_Just stop talking about it or show proof.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (I am Jack's VR6)*

Going out with the Paki this weekend, he'll verify.


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## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_You are certainly the foremost authority on the 60-1. Kindly disregard that Bill Schimmel (who has serious turbo knowledge deficiencies compared to you) has taken it past 500whp numerous times. The 60-1 enters its peak efficiency at ~17psi, leaving it around 22. You wouldn't know that, though, would you? You blew your rings trying to run an FMU and 17psi* without a wideband on 91 octane

I have checked the charts for the 60-1 myself, have you? The 60-1 hi-fi enters it's peak efficiency range at 13 psi and leaves it at 16. Where did you get 17 and 22 psi? Another internet rummor you heard? Or maybe it's just another lie to cover up your other lies. I'm sure you are well aware of how they perpetuate.
I find it hard to believe that GTRTim is/was running the exact same hardware except for the management, yet he made almost 100 whp less. Explain to us how he made 400 whp at 17 psi, but you can make 488 whp at 18 psi with only different injectors and DTA. I don't believe it and I never will. That is, unless you can prove me wrong? A simple posting of a dyno will be just fine. But since I won't ever see that, I won't ever believe you.
You know what... yeah, I did kill my rings running 14 pounds on 91 oct. But that's better than blowing them at 8 pounds on 91 like you did.
I can't wait to see how the race with Paki goes.


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## yokomomma (Aug 3, 2000)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

Not to interrupt you off topic ****'s but I shaved 1 second and gained 11MPH in the quarter mile after changing from 2.25" to 3" exhaust. Haven't dynoed though with the 3". 
Ok back to the internet trash talking!


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Ok,
I've been watching this thread since I've been "stuck" with a 2.5" exhaust for ever.
But all of a sudden I'm feeling this super urge to dyno the day before and the day after I install this thing.
So, 
I will.
Not that any of you guys care. But I'd like to see for myself, and I'll post my results on this thread (if I can find it at that point).


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Ok,
I've been watching this thread since I've been "stuck" with a 2.5" exhaust for ever.
But all of a sudden I'm feeling this super urge to dyno the day before and the day after I install this thing.
So, 
I will.
Not that any of you guys care. But I'd like to see for myself, and I'll post my results on this thread (if I can find it at that point).

this may be a lot to ask, but you should try to do them the same day to keep the conditions as similar as possible so a real comparison can be made
edit: just want to clarify, that i am not doubting that a 3" is the better choice, i know that, i just want to see how much better, i think every case is different


_Modified by herbehop at 11:23 PM 9-14-2005_


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## BORA-Nos (Jun 13, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*

227whp with a 2 1/4" supersprint, 3" down pipe.
294whp full 3"
I'll let you decide which works best for you


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
this may be a lot to ask, but you should try to do them the same day to keep the conditions as similar as possible so a real comparison can be made
_Modified by herbehop at 11:23 PM 9-14-2005_

That's why I didn't offer it. I was keeping that as a possibility but don't want to commit.
Maybe I'll see if this shop will do a custom exhaust for me (w/o raping me).


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (nater)*

dyno with your exhaust then just dump from the dp on the next pull. im about to dyno with my magnaflow and hopefully the spot will let me do a pull just dumping.


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## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_Look man I'm trying to help you. I made over 50 whp @ 15psi going to a 3" from a 2.5" with no other changes. You don't want to listen, fine. I don't care how much power you make. I don't have any interest in making your car faster. I have enough power for two cars. 

Can I have half of it for mine?


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## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*

Full 3" turbo back side exit exhaust with open dumb tube is my plan.


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

So no one makes a 3" exhaust? It will have to be fully custom?


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## CuseTownGTi (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

cant wait to go 3" now, i was just gonna stay 2.5 with my hi-flo cat and get a free flowing muffler for a quick fix, screw that now


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (CuseTownGTi)*

flava flav is a smart guy too. dont believe the hype. see numbers if your a low boost aplication.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DrunkenMunkey* »_flava flav is a smart guy too. dont believe the hype. see numbers if your a low boost aplication. 


Oh it hurts. You're so goddamn stubborn. You WILL make over 30whp with a 3" over a 2.5" at 10 psi. I'm done here, you like missing hp so be it.


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

30 hp i can respect. do you know anyone using the virtual exhaust. id love to get 3in exhaust but its tough in germany to find or build. what do you know about exhaust velocity. i know 3 inch helps. why not 3.5 though. i am new to this vr wise. 


_Modified by DrunkenMunkey at 10:26 PM 9-17-2005_


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*

exhaust 'velocity' is only a concern between the turbo
and the cylinder head. (exhaust scavenging)
AFTER the turbo you want most FLOW. so bigger IS ALWAYS better.
Think: law of diminishing returns...
on 250+whp cars going form 2.5" to 3" makes a difference
thats is well worth the effort.
extreme example: 
going from 4" to 5" on a sub-250whp doesn't help
very much, but is more difficult to build/fit....$$$
This applies to all cars not just Vr6's.
The BIG supra guys run 5" exhaust.
-Jeff


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

So where are we saying the 3" takes place? No one has a 3" dp, do they?


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_So where are we saying the 3" takes place? No one has a 3" dp, do they?








Everybody has a 3" but the Kinetic kids


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## Stephen Webb (Apr 12, 2001)

*Re: HP gains, compressor maps*

If I have followed this thread correctly, I think there might be some miscommunication going on. Or, at least, it might help if we could lay out all the details at once.
What I think is going on is that people are comparing apples and oranges. In one post some guy is making 245 WHP with a 2.5" exhaust, and (it seems) people are promising another 50 HP if he upgrades to a 3" exhaust. Maybe Cabzilla got 50 HP from the upgrade, but thats in the 500HP range, not 250. In order for it to be a reasonable comparison, in my opinion, you at least have to be in the same neighborhood as far as boost and displacement go. 
If some poor chap reads this thread and expects to gain 50 HP on his 2 liter turbo by upgrading from a 2.5" to 3" exhaust system, I think he's going to be disappointed.
As for the 60-1 compressor map, I can't make heads or tails of what anyone has said. As far as I can tell the peak efficiency island starts as low as 7 psi, and goes as high as 17. And the compressor is plenty efficient for a much broader range. And from the looks of it, 500 HP shouldn't be too hard at all -- definitely within the range of the compressor, at least.
-Steve


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## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_







Everybody has a 3" but the Kinetic kids


im one of those kids. jeff thanks for explaining exhaust velocity. and supra guys are in a different catagory. those guys are monsters. i just want around 300 whp. or 14-16psi. those are my goal with the vr. and im going liquid ic. does 3 in benifit my goals. i feel like such a noob in this thread.


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DrunkenMunkey* »_

im one of those kids. jeff thanks for explaining exhaust velocity. and supra guys are in a different catagory. those guys are monsters. i just want around 300 whp. or 14-16psi. those are my goal with the vr. and im going liquid ic. does 3 in benifit my goals. i feel like such a noob in this thread.


holy ****. I am getting sick of seeing this. how many times and how many different ways are you going to ask the same questions? YES a 3" exhaust will HELP performance. you want the least amount of restriction AFTER the turbine as possible. 
If you ask this many questions as a simple exhaust I can't imagine how many questions your going to have when you start to put your turbo together


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

My numbers are disappointing. I have a Schimmel 3L VR6 and am pushing 9psi. I've dyno'd @ 250whp, 280wtq (trq #s are nice tho).
I am running the 'restrictive' TT 2.5" exhaust and cannot wait to drop another $500-900 on a 3" exhaust...
I totally expect power to be much closer to 300whp and trq - well who knows.
But if I don't quite reach 300 I'll be ok as I understand a 3" is NECESSARY even on a "low hp" VR6 like mine.
DM,
you have a VR6 (or a VR6 Turbo?)...if you are building your turbo now does that mean you already have a 2.5" "sport" exhaust? Or are you still running the stock exhaust on your car?
If you are buying an exhaust anyway, drop the extra coin and get a 3" fabricated...you'll be sorry (as I am) if you don't.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_
holy ****. 

I was gonna say the same thing







.
DM,
Just do it. There's a reason why most of these downpipes are 3".
You'll love it.


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (nater)*

But if your DP is 2.5 inch and the exhaust is 2.5 inch
would a 3 inch matter ? *The DP becomes the bottle neck*
If you had a 3 inch DP into a 2.5 inch exhaust, then it does make sense.
david


----------



## Timmer (Dec 17, 2004)

Exaust backpressure is increased by not only the size in diameter of your restriction but the length of the "restriction" as well. A 2.5 dp with 3" exaust setup is going to outperform a 2.5 dp with 2.5 exaust setup. The whole exaust is a restriction no matter what setup you have though, that's why open turbo is the only way to go!..well not really, but idealy so.


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (fastslc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastslc* »_But if your DP is 2.5 inch and the exhaust is 2.5 inch
would a 3 inch matter ? *The DP becomes the bottle neck*
If you had a 3 inch DP into a 2.5 inch exhaust, then it does make sense.
david


if you ran a 3" downpipe with a 2.5" exhaust your power would be *LESS* then if you just ran a 2.5" downpipe and 2.5" exhaust. Reason is because you would now have a restriction in your flow.  The gasses in the 3" DP are trying to cram into a 2.5" exhaust creating more back pressure which equals LESS power.


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_
if you ran a 3" downpipe with a 2.5" exhaust your power would be *LESS* then if you just ran a 2.5" downpipe and 2.5" exhaust. Reason is because you would now have a restriction in your flow. The gasses in the 3" DP are trying to cram into a 2.5" exhaust creating more back pressure which equals LESS power. 


err isn't what i just said. ?


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (fastslc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastslc* »_
err isn't what i just said. ?









well not really. You said going from a 2.5" DP to a 3" CB would make more power then a full 2.5" exhaust which I agree. Where as I said that going from a 3" DP to a 2.5" CB would lose power.


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_well not really. You said going from a 2.5" DP to a 3" CB would make more power then a full 2.5" exhaust which I agree. Where as I said that going from a 3" DP to a 2.5" CB would lose power.

Not that this will effect me since I'm not running a 2.5" exhaust, but do you have anything to back that up? Or are you just assuming that that would make sense? I can't see how having a 3" DP to a 2.5" TB would make less power than a 2.5-2.5 assuming you didn't have some godawful transition piece.


----------



## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_ 
If you ask this many questions as a simple exhaust I can't imagine how many questions your going to have when you start to put your turbo together










Id love to meet you. Knowing that you have all the answers. I did my own turbo install. Being blessed can you fab me this exhaust so Ill shut up. 3 inch please. So you can fill in the blank here with whatever smartass worthless comment youd like for yourself. Im fresh out. "________________________________________ ." Plus I see you have more time to waste.


_Modified by DrunkenMunkey at 6:40 PM 9-18-2005_


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_
Not that this will effect me since I'm not running a 2.5" exhaust, but do you have anything to back that up? Or are you just assuming that that would make sense? I can't see how having a 3" DP to a 2.5" TB would make less power than a 2.5-2.5 assuming you didn't have some godawful transition piece.

what kind of back up do you want? Take a look at other forums besides vortex, specifically where cars are turbo charged from the factory. People that have replaced the stock DP with a 3" DP while keeping the same stock diameter exhaust have made LESS HP then just the stock exhaust. Trust me I'm not typing this stuff cause I like to read what I write.


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DrunkenMunkey* »_

Id love to meet you. Knowing that you have all the answers. I did my own turbo install. Being blessed can you fab me this exhaust so Ill shut up. 3 inch please. So you can fill in the blank here with whatever smartass worthless comment youd like for yourself. Im fresh out. "________________________________________ ." Plus I see you have more time to waste.

_Modified by DrunkenMunkey at 6:40 PM 9-18-2005_

never said I had all the answers but I sure as hell don't ask the same question 50 different times.


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_what kind of back up do you want? Take a look at other forums besides vortex, specifically where cars are turbo charged from the factory. People that have replaced the stock DP with a 3" DP while keeping the same stock diameter exhaust have made LESS HP then just the stock exhaust. Trust me I'm not typing this stuff cause I like to read what I write.

I'll trust you on that if you trust me that vortex is one of the LAST places I come for factual information







Besides, transitioning into a completely stock exhaust is a bit different than going from a 3" to 2.5" hypothetically 'free flowing exhaust'. Bah, who cares, this thread sucks.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Drunken Monkey,
Shut the eff up and just get a 3" exhaust.
Please stop this bullisht!
You need a 3" exhaust if you want 300whp on 8-11psi.


----------



## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (nater)*

f u nater. i repsect your opinion more then most here in the vortex. i just want answers, and to find a mandrel bender in germnay isnt easy in the eifel region.


_Modified by DrunkenMunkey at 12:28 AM 9-19-2005_


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DrunkenMunkey* »_f u nater. i repsect your opinion more then most here in the vortex. i just want answers, and to find a mandrel bender in germnay isnt easy in the eifel region.

_Modified by DrunkenMunkey at 12:28 AM 9-19-2005_


Order the 3" over-the-axle piece from TT, pay the international shipping. The rest can be made from straight pieces.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (I am Jack's VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *I am Jack’s VR6* »_
I can't wait to see how the race with Paki goes.

I lost by 3 cars, 50-110. Not bad against a 630rwhp supercharged Z06. Holy ****, I must be telling the truth. Oh and it's on video. More boost and a rematch next weekend. 




_Modified by cabzilla at 10:00 PM 9-18-2005_


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DrunkenMunkey* »_f u nater. i repsect your opinion more then most here in the vortex. i just want answers, and to find a mandrel bender in germnay isnt easy in the eifel region.

_Modified by DrunkenMunkey at 12:28 AM 9-19-2005_

Sorry. Didn't mean to piss you off. Trust me. I don't piss anybody off here on vortex much. I was just saying that the thread is getting a bit old, isn't it?
I think Cabzilla has a point...get the TT piece and the rest shouldn't be that hard...I think that's the hardest part, isn't it?


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_get the TT piece and the rest shouldn't be that hard...I think that's the hardest part, isn't it?

Not hard at all. Just buy 3" U bends or 3" 90's and he will have no problem.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

_Quote »_y numbers are disappointing. I have a Schimmel 3L VR6 and am pushing 9psi. I've dyno'd @ 250whp, 280wtq (trq #s are nice tho).

What...... The....... FOOK??? How in the hell are you only....
A) Putting down that much horse with ALLLL the cash you dumped into building that monster








and
B) Why in the hell are you only running 9psi with all the cash you dumped into that engine to build it up? Did you not put a head spacer in that thing when you went through all the trouble of pulling that head a bazillion times?
There's something wrong there.


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 1:12 PM 9-19-2005_


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_What...... The....... FOOK??? How in the hell are you only....
A) Putting down that much horse with ALLLL the cash you dumped into building that monster








and
B) Why in the hell are you only running 9psi with all the cash you dumped into that engine to build it up? Did you not put a head spacer in that thing when you went through all the trouble of pulling that head a bazillion times?
There's something wrong there.

_Modified by .:VRT:. at 1:12 PM 9-19-2005_


2.5" exhaust.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

More boost wouldn't add any power huh? I don't think I could take the noise level of a 3" exhaust on a daily basis. How bout a VES? Here's another question can you get to 300whp with a 2.5". But back to the VES is everyones opinion on it that it's a total joke? If it worked well enough that would most likely be the route I'd go. Affordable, adjustable, and for the most part a lot more quiet.


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 2:33 PM 9-19-2005_


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_More boost wouldn't add any power huh? I don't think I could take the noise level of a 3" exhaust on a daily basis. How bout a VES? Here's another question can you get to 300whp with a 2.5". But back to the VES is everyones opinion on it that it's a total joke? If it worked well enough that would most likely be the route I'd go. Affordable, adjustable, and for the most part a lot more quiet.

_Modified by .:VRT:. at 2:33 PM 9-19-2005_

Why do you think the VES doesn't work? You get the benefit of a quite stock exhaust plus its less $$ then a full 3" turbo back. You could put a very small spring in the vacuum actuator or use a MBC so it opens early. 
To me it seems like a good alternative to the cheap plastic gears on the quicktime valves that melt on you. 
The only downside I can see is the lack of low-end spool that you would get with a true full 3" exhaust. 
Other then that I "think" I may try it out on the cut out of my 3" exhaust.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_More boost wouldn't add any power huh? I don't think I could take the noise level of a 3" exhaust on a daily basis. How bout a VES? Here's another question can you get to 300whp with a 2.5". But back to the VES is everyones opinion on it that it's a total joke? If it worked well enough that would most likely be the route I'd go. Affordable, adjustable, and for the most part a lot more quiet.

_Modified by .:VRT:. at 2:33 PM 9-19-2005_

My 3" is quieter than my old tt 2.5". Eh, whatever you can do to justify not doing it.


----------



## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

good point thanks for answering that question. my last question what is shimmel running for exhuast. seems like a smart power guy. when i get back from deployment ill run a magnaflow system v. a high flow cat back system. 


_Modified by DrunkenMunkey at 1:38 PM 9-19-2005_


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*


_Quote »_Why do you think the VES doesn't work?

Because much like the poor bastard looking for a before and after dyno with a 3" exhaust I can't find a dyno sheet of a before and after of the VES installed LOL.

_Quote »_You get the benefit of a quite stock exhaust plus its less $$ then a full 3" turbo back. You could put a very small spring in the vacuum actuator or use a MBC so it opens early.

I may order one up then...


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 4:06 PM 9-19-2005_


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DrunkenMunkey* »_good point thanks for answering that question. my last question what is shimmel running for exhuast.
_Modified by DrunkenMunkey at 1:38 PM 9-19-2005_

A 3" turboback.


----------



## yokomomma (Aug 3, 2000)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_
You get the benefit of a quite stock exhaust plus its less $$ then a full 3" turbo back. 


VES= $235 plus shipping
My 3" setup consists of:
10 feet of 3" straight pipe = $49 bought locally
Dynomax 3" muffler = $79 bought locally
TT 3" over axle pipe = $125 shipped
3" exhaust flange = $5 bought locally
3" pipe clamps = $20 bought locally
Total = $278
For not even $50 more why would you not just go with a true 3"?? It's sounds sweet at idle, part throttle, coasting, cruising and full throttle.
I can't believe this thread is still going on. Just do the 3".







.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

2.5" exhaust. 

Thanks. Cuz I wasn't here to post it. Really. That was the entire point of me posting on this thread. That is exactly why I'm down on power.
And NO, I did it correctly. I've got an 8.5:1 spacer in there. 
W/o going into too much detail...I recently had to pull my motor out again and look at some things (don't ask b/c I've been through it way too many times). I decided to go with the 30# injectors for now.
Yes, I've got the 42# injectors AND chip and they WERE in. I'm just waiting to DO IT RIGHT by getting an egt guage and MBC. But after having a baby a month back and spending some dough on a new passat 4mo I don't have a lot of cash liquid right now. Plus, the 30# c2 setup is soooo damn smooth.
I'll turn up the boost soon, no worries. But I'm not doing it until I get out of this goddam restrictive 2.5" exhaust.
That is what's wrong here.
Cab summed it up in two words (I think)


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (yokomomma)*

Yoko,
Am I missing something or did you have to have hangers welded to the pipes in the same areas where they were on your old exhaust (ie. to use the rubber vw hangers to support the system)?
That's the one thing you didn't mention...is it as simple as marking the spot and bringing it in to have it welded at a muffler shop?
Sound way too easy. 
Regarding sound: The turbo quiets things down considerably. 
How much louder would a 3" be over a 2.5" anyway? Probably not much.


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Regarding sound: The turbo quiets things down considerably. 
How much louder would a 3" be over a 2.5" anyway? Probably not much.


I never heard what a 2.5" exhaust sounds like on a VRT but my 3" turbo back with single muffler is LOUD as ****! Only thing louder then the exhaust is when the WG opens up


----------



## yokomomma (Aug 3, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Yoko,
Am I missing something or did you have to have hangers welded to the pipes in the same areas where they were on your old exhaust (ie. to use the rubber vw hangers to support the system)?
That's the one thing you didn't mention...is it as simple as marking the spot and bringing it in to have it welded at a muffler shop?
Sound way too easy. 



Oops the small details. We used 1/2 threaded rod on mine. Leftover shop supplies so it was free. Here's a couple pics. Not the prettiest but damn effective!


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

_Quote »_VES= $235 plus shipping
My 3" setup consists of:
10 feet of 3" straight pipe = $49 bought locally
Dynomax 3" muffler = $79 bought locally
TT 3" over axle pipe = $125 shipped
3" exhaust flange = $5 bought locally
3" pipe clamps = $20 bought locally
Total = $278

And how much to have it welded together and installed, come on.... be honest. And who made your 3" DP?

_Quote »_For not even $50 more why would you not just go with a true 3"??


_Quote »_ but my 3" turbo back with single muffler is LOUD as ****!

That's why.










_Modified by .:VRT:. at 8:17 PM 9-19-2005_


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_And how much to have it welded together and installed, come on.... be honest. And who made your 3" DP?
That's why.









_Modified by .:VRT:. at 8:17 PM 9-19-2005_


Mine is dead quiet. You can make them quiet, I'm using two resonators in the center tunnel plus a borla. WAY quieter than a 2.5" on an N/A car.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

Ya, ok I can see that if you keep all your resonaters but doesn't that create bottle necks? In response to nates low HP LMAO! He's only got 250whp cause he's lowered his compression to 8.5:1. It's not all the result of having a 2.5" exhaust. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts if he raises it up to 9:1 or back to 10:1 with a metal spacer he'd see his HP jump up. You can't chalk all of that up to not having a 3" exhaust. I don't buy that, his number is crazy low. And as such that portion of the thread is MISINFORMATION IMO. If you sack up and drop compression you've gotta run more boost. You wanna make good power off 9psi and have it be solid, he should of just bought C2's 10:1 steel spacer instead of the 8.5:1. 

_Modified by .:VRT:. at 10:21 PM 9-19-2005_


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 10:35 PM 9-19-2005_


----------



## yokomomma (Aug 3, 2000)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_
And how much to have it welded together and installed, come on.... be honest. And who made your 3" DP?


$0 when you do it with friends








My downpipe is the 3" ATP so yes that cost $225 or whatever they charge. You can't run a VES straight off the turbo though so you'll need to buy a downpipe regardless. 
_Edit:_
Here's a video clip of my exhaust a couple minutes after we made it:
http://home.comcast.net/~amohr...t.avi



_Modified by yokomomma at 11:12 PM 9-19-2005_


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (yokomomma)*

Well some of aren't fortunate enough to have friends who weld soooo I may go VES. It mounts after cat not to DP, I've got the Kinetic kit so it'll be 2.5" up to that point.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_Ya, ok I can see that if you keep all your resonaters but doesn't that create bottle necks? 
_Modified by .:VRT:. at 10:35 PM 9-19-2005_


If there's a bottleneck, you sure as hell can't feel it. They're straight-through 3" bullet mufflers.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_You wanna make good power off 9psi and have it be solid, he should of just bought C2's 10:1 steel spacer instead of the 8.5:1. 

But that's not what I wanted to do. I'm running only 9psi for a reason. I'm not getting into it on this thread.
And by the way, "you wanna make good power off 9psi and have it be solid"...I'm not sure what that means. 250whp is kinda weak but 280trq isn't bad. It's solid-enough...considering that the 8.5:1 spacer is there for when I turn up the boost. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by nater at 6:52 AM 9-20-2005_


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote »_ I'm not getting into it on this thread.

Not asking you to. All I'm saying is that your low numbers aren't ENTIRELY the result of having the 2.5" exhaust. The fact that you've lowered compression and decided to stay at 9psi is.... If you were at 10:1 I bet you'd be in the 280-290whp range hell with the "3L" monster you have you may have even been at 300. I bet you could even take it further on 10:1 seeing as how your bored out an all but that's that just an guesstamate.

_Quote »_ "you wanna make good power off 9psi and have it be solid"...I'm not sure what that means.

I guess Chris stated it more eloquently on his site.

_Quote »_Stock Thickness Spacer For those already running low CR, but want the quality of an "all-metal" gasket

"Someone" (not saying you) could probably stay 10:1 and run a steel spacer instead for more strength? I duuno whatever.

_Modified by .:VRT:. at 8:58 AM 9-20-2005_


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 9:26 AM 9-20-2005_


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I guess this is when the thread dies.
lol
Either way, somehow my "low" numbers got dragged into this (by me) but perpetuated into something 'more'.
Leave me be!








hah hah.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (nater)*

We can keep it goin'. Nate take off the skirt and throw 18 at that bitch. Those numbers wont be "low" then 3" or not.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

Skirt is coming off soon.
Just let me do this 'right' so I feel good about it. IE: Let me get my fuel pump in and my boost controller installed. 
It's just a matter of my busy-ness / laziness right now since I have the pump in my garage (been there for over a year now) and the MBC I could jimmy rig if I needed...(gonna get that this weekend).
But still, I need a 3" if I'm gonna run that high boost.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote »_But still, I need a 3" if I'm gonna run that high boost.

Will it blow up?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_
Will it blow up?

Smart ass.
You know the answer. The point I'm trying to make here is the next thing I spend ANY money on is a 3" exhaust.
Why I"m the last retard to be posting on this thread, I don't know.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_Will it blow up?


Funny how it seems that the Kinetic kids are the cockiest...


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

Anyone know how to remove the resonators in the TT 2.5" exhuast? I believe there are 3. What are they there for and how do I get rid of them?


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_Anyone know how to remove the resonators in the TT 2.5" exhuast? I believe there are 3. What are they there for and how do I get rid of them?


They make it quieter. How do you have a turbo kit and not know how a resonator works? Jesus. Get a 3" before polishing the 2.5" turd.


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote »_Smart ass.










_Quote »_Funny how it seems that the Kinetic kids are the cockiest...

I was cocky before the Kinetic kit.


----------



## 2dub2euro (May 5, 2004)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

2.5" for the street
Open Dump for the Track
Problem solved


----------



## BubonicCorrado (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (2dub2euro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2dub2euro* »_2.5" for the street
Open Dump for the Track
Problem solved

Nope... Not solved, 2.5in exhausts on VR6 with a decent turbo setup cause a substantial increase back pressure. This increased backpressure also causes the EGT's to raise anywhere from 200-300 degrees difference in low boost setups (lower than 12 PSI on a T3/T4 hybrid, or 10 PSI out of a T4), and 400-500 degress high boost setups (12psi+). I have personally seen it on my car and a friends car, the TT 2.5in exhaust does not flow efficently enough for the amount of air the engine is moving. It literally chokes it.
On top of that the increased EGT's also lead excesive wear on the valve train, higher coolant temps, higher oil temps, and an increased chance of detonation.
The faster the exhaust moves through the cylinder head, the exhaust manifold, the turbine housing, the downpipe, and the exhaust, the less heat is retained by each component. 
It's all about flow gentlemen, a car is only an air pump. The easier the air flows, the faster it flows, the faster it flows, the more power you make. Bottom line.
I personally saw Cabzillas second dyno, in fact Jacks VR6 was there also.
The only thing he changed was the full 3" exhaust, and gained masive amounts of power.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_They make it quieter. How do you have a turbo kit and not know how a resonator works?

I must be a moron.


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_Get a 3" before polishing the 2.5" turd. 

Does anyone have a bolt on 3"? I don't believe so. And according to you, Cabzilla, how could I have a 3" exhaust made if I do not even know how a resonator works?


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_I must be a moron.

Does anyone have a bolt on 3"? I don't believe so. And according to you, Cabzilla, how could I have a 3" exhaust made if I do not even know how a resonator works?

Do you really need a 3" kit? YOu can't make one out of 3" piping and the TT prefabbed piece?


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
Do you really need a 3" kit? YOu can't make one out of 3" piping and the TT prefabbed piece? 

Dude, I just said it myself, as well as you, I don't even know how a resonator works, I must be a moron. On that note, I am sure I could do it, hell, I installed the turbo kit, but I like to work with bolt on things, this way I know it will (should) work fine. 
If I had a list of the pieces I needed, then I would attempt to do it. I have a friend that works for a muffler shop so he could weld anything if need be.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_I don't even know how a resonator works, I must be a moron. 


Hey, I didn't make you say it. There are a lot of noobish kinetic owners in this thread. Some of you could stand to learn a bit more about cars before you blow something up and then piss all over threads crying about how unreliable a turbo vr is.










_Modified by cabzilla at 9:17 PM 9-21-2005_


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
Some of you could stand to learn a bit more about cars before you blow something up and then piss all over threads crying about how unreliable a turbo vr is.









_Modified by cabzilla at 9:17 PM 9-21-2005_

Please, who died and made you king turbo man. I'm not saying you don't know anything about cars, turbos, turbo vr's, etc., but seriously, you are making yourself look like a fool. Not once have I complained about my turbo vr being unreliable because I blew it up. Yes, this is my first turbo application, so yes, I am in the beginner stage, but I am on this forum looking for help, not looking for criticism on my knowledge about turbos. 
Now lets get this back on topic. What would be the easiest way to make a 3" exhaust? Just buy the piece from TT and fab up the rest?


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_
Now lets get this back on topic. What would be the easiest way to make a 3" exhaust? Just buy the piece from TT and fab up the rest? 

JUst as every other time, yes. Yes yes and yes. It will literally cost you $300 to do. Is 50+hp worth $300?


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
JUst as every other time, yes. Yes yes and yes. It will literally cost you $300 to do. Is 50+hp worth $300? 

That's nothing. I know plenty of people that wold kill to get 50 hp, regardless of price. Well if you say it is so simple (just get the TT piece and fab the rest) then I will consider doing it. Is there anything I should look out for or know before I start it?


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

does Techtonics make the over-axle piece for mkIVs as well?
Cant seem to find it on their site


----------



## the_mad_rabbit (Aug 10, 2003)

wow


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_That's nothing. I know plenty of people that wold kill to get 50 hp, regardless of price. Well if you say it is so simple (just get the TT piece and fab the rest) then I will consider doing it. Is there anything I should look out for or know before I start it?

Yes, it's that easy. The only bends are in the over-the-axle piece, everything else is straight.


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

So where can I get this transition.. looks like its once piece 2.5 inch to 3 inch


----------



## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (fastslc)*

summit has ss reducers. or are they enlargers.







anyway they are not flanged. VBAND.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*


_Quote »_ There are a lot of noobish kinetic owners in this thread.

This one is still waiting for your dyno sheet....


----------



## yokomomma (Aug 3, 2000)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_
If I had a list of the pieces I needed, then I would attempt to do it.

You do. I already posted it in this thread 3 days ago.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_This one is still waiting for your dyno sheet....

The numbers you are looking for are 2.5" exhaust 275whp @ 13psi. 3" exhaust 351whp 13psi.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

THERE WE GO! Interesting. And just for the record....
1) I never doubted the 3" exhaust I was giving you **** because you were being prickish.
2) I don't consider myself a "kid" because I choose to buy a Turbo kit that was more cost effective than many of the other ones offered.
3) My Kinetic kit has been ROCK SOLID for well over a year now on a DAILY driven car. It puts a grin on my face and makes me happy every time I drive it, which is all that matters. I've NEVER thought my kit was the end-all-be-all of turbo kits, quite the contrary actually. I'm well aware of it's limitations and flaws. It makes a solid 9psi and moves that 2800lb car just fine for what I need. 
I'm done here.


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 1:44 PM 9-22-2005_


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

I ordered the TT over axle piece today...
Im going to do before and after runs 
2.5' vs 3" not that Im doubting the results - just to give solid graphs http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Does anyone know where to get S.S. piping?
does the fact that the over axle piece is aluminized matter (in regards to EGTs)?


----------



## HotredVR (May 13, 2002)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_I ordered the TT over axle piece today...
Im going to do before and after runs 
2.5' vs 3" not that Im doubting the results - just to give solid graphs http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Does anyone know where to get S.S. piping?
does the fact that the over axle piece is aluminized matter (in regards to EGTs)?

How much did you pay for the over the axle piece and what is the part #......................


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (HotredVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HotredVR* »_How much did you pay for the over the axle piece and what is the part #......................









I don't know the part number, I called them and just asked for it - I think it was ~120+shipping


----------



## yokomomma (Aug 3, 2000)

*Re: (HotredVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HotredVR* »_
How much did you pay for the over the axle piece and what is the part #......................









Get it from Peter. http://thescirocco.com/ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## foffa2002 (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: (herbehop)*

GO as big as you can
Im going to run a 4inch downpipe NO 90degr bends and the rest will be full flow thin wall 3inch with one full flow muffler .
Big = only benefits on a vrT
Better exhaust temp
Fast spool between shifting
Better flow 
etc etc


----------



## NCabbyT (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: (BORA-Nos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BORA-Nos* »_227whp with a 2 1/4" supersprint, 3" down pipe.
294whp full 3"
I'll let you decide which works best for you









right now I'm running a 3" DP off my 8v Turbo into a 2.5 stainless TT exhaust. I don't think I'm making anything more than 250. Unfortunately I have a Mk1 and there is NO ROOM for a 3".
I'm also worried about running a dump, because I don't really want a side exit and fireing flames underneath my car sounds like a very very bad idea.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (NCabbyT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NCabbyT* »_right now I'm running a 3" DP off my 8v Turbo into a 2.5 stainless TT exhaust. I don't think I'm making anything more than 250. Unfortunately I have a Mk1 and there is NO ROOM for a 3".


Incorrect. You can squeeze a 3" turbo back into a Cabriolet.


----------



## NCabbyT (Jul 8, 2001)

It rattles like a bitch as it is.
Cabzilla, is that your blue cabby in PVW not too long ago? Are you running a 3"?


_Modified by NCabbyT at 3:49 PM 9-23-2005_


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (NCabbyT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NCabbyT* »_It rattles like a bitch as it is.
Cabzilla, is that your blue cabby in PVW not too long ago? Are you running a 3"?

_Modified by NCabbyT at 3:49 PM 9-23-2005_


Not my car, but the owner is a good friend. It doesn't rattle at all, but it was all custom-fabbed.


----------



## maxslug (May 22, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

Simple question -- this is all without a Cat, right?
-m


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (maxslug)*

My budget 3 inch (from cat to over axle) - all mandrel with TT over axle


----------



## maxslug (May 22, 2005)

*Re: (fastslc)*

Got Dyno?


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

Man, 4 pages and I think I am a little more dumb now...
Nater, who said you will be paying $500-$900 for a 3" exhaust?
I have a 3" that was custom made by a guy local to where I was living. Just go to an exhaust shop and ask them. That is what I did. Sure, they are compression bends, sure, it is aluminized tubing...but it works, and it cost $330, including the Magnaflow muffler and twin 2.5" tips. The compression bends see 2.5" at some places. The guy never even mentioned the axle. I asked him if it was a little tight, and he said, "Ya, but we got it to work." It rubbed and bumped a bit, so I went in and he fixed it up. 
There sure is a lot of animosity going on around here...everyone needs to chill out. Who cares??? I mean really, it is just a car.
Besides, if you want to go fast, just get a motorcycle.








Ryan


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (maxslug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxslug* »_Got Dyno?









Do I owe you something ?


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (maxslug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxslug* »_Got Dyno?










IM me when you're up in the bay. You can see what a 3" is capable of.


----------



## JPLengineer (Jul 7, 2005)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (GTTechnics)*

What about 2.5" downpipe & 3" Exhaust?
Go for both 3" ? Worth the extra $$?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (JPLengineer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JPLengineer* »_What about 2.5" downpipe & 3" Exhaust?
Go for both 3" ? Worth the extra $$?

Bottleneck.
Make sure you start off with a 3" dp.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Bottleneck.
Make sure you start off with a 3" dp.

why wouldn't that be ok?
I can see bottlenecking being a problem if you went 3" dp to 2.5" exhaust...
but shouldn't it be ok the other way around?


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (herbehop)*

either way has their upsides and their downsides.
if you ever look at full built race cars (nascar is a perfect example), they run a narrowing tube right after the collectors followed by an over-sized exhaust (flat round).
so it goes big - small - big.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
why wouldn't that be ok?
I can see bottlenecking being a problem if you went 3" dp to 2.5" exhaust...
but shouldn't it be ok the other way around?

To me it seems like a waste. 
A 2.5" downpipe can only get so much exhaust out. 
I have no scientific evidence in my statement







...I'm just saying if you are going to do a 3" exhaust why not get a 3" downpipe???


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
To me it seems like a waste. 
A 2.5" downpipe can only get so much exhaust out. 
I have no scientific evidence in my statement







...I'm just saying if you are going to do a 3" exhaust why not get a 3" downpipe???


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Flow = Velocity * Area (from -Diameter),
So you will not be able to increase your flow by making a 3" exhaust and keeping a 2.5" d.p.
Think about attaching a water hose to a 3" pipe, will that make any more water come out?


----------



## ERTW (Jan 17, 2000)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Flow = Velocity * Area (from -Diameter),
So you will not be able to increase your flow by making a 3" exhaust and keeping a 2.5" d.p.
Think about attaching a water hose to a 3" pipe, will that make any more water come out?

You aren't pumping a non-compressible fluid. Pumping compressible fluids are different because the density is always changing through the exhaust piping. A properly designed exhaust system of the same diameter will outflow an improperly designed exhaust.
Same holds true for intake piping.


----------



## set (Nov 27, 2003)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Flow = Velocity * Area (from -Diameter),
So you will not be able to increase your flow by making a 3" exhaust and keeping a 2.5" d.p.
Think about attaching a water hose to a 3" pipe, will that make any more water come out?

Not quite right. Well part of it is, that being Flow=Vel*Area, but the maximum possible velocity is NOT constant along the length of the exhaust system. Because the EGT is higher near the turbo the 2.5" DP has the potential to flow than the rest of the 2.5" system, so increasing the rest of the system to 3" will help. I agree that you might as well run 3" all the way though.


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (TBT-PassatG60)*

I can't beleive this post is still going...

_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-PassatG60* »_either way has their upsides and their downsides.
if you ever look at full built race cars (nascar is a perfect example), they run a narrowing tube right after the collectors followed by an over-sized exhaust (flat round).
so it goes big - small - big.









in the above statement your compairing a N/A car to a Turbo'ed car. One of them actually needs a small amount of back pressure and the other does not (turbo).


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (ERTW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ERTW* »_
You aren't pumping a non-compressible fluid. Pumping compressible fluids are different because the density is always changing through the exhaust piping. A properly designed exhaust system of the same diameter will outflow an improperly designed exhaust.
Same holds true for intake piping.

yes that is true, but improperly designed exhaust systems only don't flow as well because of turbulance. If you can get all the fluid to have perfect streamlines then there wouldn't be a difference. My point really was to give an over all example, you would have to do alot of engineering to get the same amount of flow from a smaller pipe. There for just go all the way through with the larger pipe.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (GTijoejoe)*

Anyone make a 3" dp and 3" high flow cat?


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_I can't beleive this post is still going...
in the above statement your compairing a N/A car to a Turbo'ed car. One of them actually needs a small amount of back pressure and the other does not (turbo).

the reducer actually reduces back-pressure.


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (TBT-PassatG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-PassatG60* »_
the reducer actually reduces back-pressure.









Yeah sure, thats why they call it a reducer.


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_Anyone make a 3" dp and 3" high flow cat?

Yes.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_
Yes.

Oh yeh? Any names?


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_Oh yeh? Any names?


ATP makes a 3" dp. EIP makes a 3" exhaust. Or you could MAKE one for about $250.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

ATP makes a 3" dp. EIP makes a 3" exhaust. Or you could MAKE one for about $250. 

Thanks for the info. I already went the route of making one myself, and I just don't have the necessary tools (welder). I could bring it to my buddy's father's shop, but he wants me to pay cash if i go without the cat, and he want to do the whole thing himself and charge me like $500. I was like hell no. I did not realize EIP had a 3". I will look into that. Thanks Cab. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

atp and schimmel (might be atp's) makes 3'' downpipes. u can find any generic 3'' cat.


----------



## sethswa (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (GTTechnics)*

Not to jack the tread BUT, for those with vr's w/ t3/t4's or the kinetic kit CHERRYSPORT (cnbrown and gavster) will fab 3in dps... Tyler is the man w/ a welder look for his posts, mine, gavsters oh yea and MOLE's his work is on all our cars! PM any of us w/ interest.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (sethswa)*

How much would you guys pay for a bolt-on 3" exhaust? I could make them relatively easily.


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_How much would you guys pay for a bolt-on 3" exhaust? I could make them relatively easily. 

A rare $2 bill and some left-over fries I found in the couch?


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_A rare $2 bill and some left-over fries I found in the couch?


I'm mail you a pic of mine for that much.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

I'm mail you a pic of mine for that much.









Make sure the mailman doesn't mark the stamp (put some clear tape over it) so that he can pull the stamp off and use that when he sends his next letter out.








And before I get yelled it I gotta say it's a joke







.


----------



## maxslug (May 22, 2005)

*Re: (fastslc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastslc* »_Do I owe you something ?
















Hey, I'm not doubting that having a larger exhaust == better flow == more power. I would just love to see exactly what the difference is between 2.5 and 3.0 inch systems. That is, see the same car with the exact same setup except for the exhaust make two runs on a dyno. Someone out there should be in a position to do that one of these days.
For now I'm going with a TT 2.5" system w/ 2.5" cat.
-m


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

ok. if you need a new exhaust just go for the 3'' if you already have a 2.5'' keep it maybe later upgrade. sounds like a good plan to me.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (cabzilla)*

Depends. I don't expect you to tell me your cost, but from what I have gathered, you said it costs about $250 to make one yourself. If that is the case, I would pay you $350 shipped for a full 3" exhaust.


----------



## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: vr6t's- 2.5"vs 3" exhaust dynos and experiences? (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_Depends. I don't expect you to tell me your cost, but from what I have gathered, you said it costs about $250 to make one yourself. If that is the case, I would pay you $350 shipped for a full 3" exhaust.

Don't know that Cabzilla was offering to make you an exhaust, but here's what I paid....
3" over-axle pipe................140.00 from TT (aprox. w/ shipping, I lost the receipt)
3" Borla XR-1 race muffler ...163.20 from Summit Racing 
3" exhaust tubing ................25.00 from local muffler shop
3" clamps / TT chain hangers 40.00 
Total 368.20 w/ shipping. 
I figure a 3" downpipe will cost me another 200.00 - 250.00 allowing for a 3" flex sock, U-bends, a V-band flange / hardware, and a little extra fudge factor to cover any mistakes.


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

can the 3'' overaxle pipe be found on tt's site?


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (maxslug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxslug* »_Hey, I'm not doubting that having a larger exhaust == better flow == more power. I would just love to see exactly what the difference is between 2.5 and 3.0 inch systems. That is, see the same car with the exact same setup except for the exhaust make two runs on a dyno. Someone out there should be in a position to do that one of these days.
For now I'm going with a TT 2.5" system w/ 2.5" cat.
-m


Oh. my. god. go a few pages back and look at what I posted.


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

get the 3 inch TT from http://www.thescirocco.com.. u will save about $12 including shipping..
d


----------



## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_can the 3'' overaxle pipe be found on tt's site?

Don't think so. At the time I bought mine (last spring) the 3" OAP's were a call and ask Randy item.


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

I heard the TT pipe restricts flow really bad, and it doesn't even exist. I guess that is what happens when elves make your stuff.
Although, you put it on your car, and it makes a lot of cool points...and an instant 50hp.
Ryan


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_I heard the TT pipe restricts flow really bad, and it doesn't even exist. I guess that is what happens when elves make your stuff.
Although, you put it on your car, and it makes a lot of cool points...and an instant 50hp.
Ryan


I have one on my car. It's a mandrel piece with maybe two 30 degree bends in it. You can see it if you want. Not so sure about being a flow restriction... Eh maybe it would spin 6th too if I got rid of it.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

^I don't see how the TT piece could restrict flow...
They only other option would be dumping out the side or down to the ground before you got to the rear axle...
I have it on my car...I think its fine
P.S. I am going to the dyno when I get my car back - I went from 2.5 to 3 a couple weeks ago- I will post a dyno when I get it to the dyno


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

I have one on my car. It's a mandrel piece with maybe two 30 degree bends in it. You can see it if you want. Not so sure about being a flow restriction... Eh maybe it would spin 6th too if I got rid of it. 

Cool, where can I find one?
Ryan


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*

^ if you are reffering to the TT overaxle piece?


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Here's a TT piece.. There are no sharp angles whatsoever.
I got mine 2 weeks ago.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

^looks a little different in my car, more "bendy" for lack of a better word


----------



## Manch (Apr 30, 2005)

*Re: (herbehop)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2468392
R32 EIP Stage 1 kit with Miltek 2.5" CAT back = 335whp
R32 EIP Stage 1 kit with EIP 3" CAT back = 341whp
The EIP kit comes with a 3 inch DP and 3inch Sports CAT.
So at these power levels there is 6whp difference between a 2.5 inch and 3 inch CAT back exhaust. Yes the bigger exhaust is better but 6whp isn't exactly the huge jump in power claimed that would happen if you went from a 2.5inch exhaust upto a 3 inch exhaust.

Ok ok this kit does start of with a 3inch DP and 3inch sports CAT.

I haven't looked through this whole thread but for the guys that are worried about the noise of a full 3 inch system you can have a exhaust system comprised of the above and only suffer a 6whp loss of power (In theory)

You guys have looked at exhaust area and exhaust velocity but I don't think none of you have looked at the temperture side of the exhaust gases, as the gases cool down you don't need the full 3inch ID to maintain the exhaust velocity. So running a 3inch DP + 3inch sports CAT + going for a 2.5 CAT back exhaust doesn't = drain in lots of power even at 300+whp power levels. (As long as you have a decent 2.5inch CAT back exhaust







). It all depends on what you want







. 



_Modified by Manch at 1:40 PM 2-26-2006_


----------



## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (Manch)*

My 2.5" DP and 2.25" crush bent catback is better than 3" TB


----------



## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (skillton)*

talk to Jettin2class
he is local (tucson AZ) and has a turbo vr6.
he had a downpipe built for his kinetic kit and a custom exhaust. and it didnt break the bank. 3" all the way back.


----------



## Jettin2Class (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_talk to Jettin2class
he is local (tucson AZ) and has a turbo vr6.
he had a downpipe built for his kinetic kit and a custom exhaust. and it didnt break the bank. 3" all the way back.

That would be me. (thanks big mouth ^^^^







)
The difference from the 2.5-3" DP is noticeable. Things seem to pick up faster and smoother. Then get the TT mandrel over axle piece and a big magnaflow box (4x9x18" IIRC) and you'll have a great flowing QUIET exhaust that still sounds good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
If you guys ever put together that fender rolling GTG up there, I'll bring the pig up.


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## AAdontworkx3 (Oct 1, 2002)

*Re: (Jettin2Class)*

There is a dyno day coming up next week here in Tampa. I run a full 2.5 from the cat back, but from the turbo down to the "cat" is 3" with a 3" electric cutout that dumps out under the driver. I will post the differences so we can all put this to rest! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## gregaf3 (Apr 22, 2002)

*Re: (AAdontworkx3)*

Well not to burst anyones bubble, but I got an email back from TT a few weeks back and I was told that they do not have any of the 3 inch over the beam sections and do not plan on making any more. Sorta sucks for me, esp seeing that I am running 2.25 magnaflow right now...


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## raddo (Dec 22, 1999)

*Re: (gregaf3)*

The best pic I could find of 3" set up.


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