# Help with air setup on '63 Benz fintail



## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

***UPDATE W/PICS**Help with air setup on '63 Benz fintail*

Hey everyone, my brother and I just purchased a 1963 Mercedes 220b also known as a fintail. It is pretty clean for it's age, especially the interior. I know this is the Vortex and not a Benz site but there are zero sites with info about this and I have seen a few bagged benz's on here and hope you guys can help us out. What we want to do is have it go low as possible and what we are going to need to get that done. I saw the color of money thread but there werent any pics of the suspension installed to see if it is similar to ours. The car does not have coil over suspension, it has seperate shocks and springs. Can you guys help us out with what bags we will need and if we are going to have to replace our shocks with shorter ones? Any help would be great! Thanks in advance and I am going to try and take some pics to help out.


_Modified by Ge-off at 6:19 PM 8-3-2008_


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## Dreamstate (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: Help with air setup on '63 Benz fintail (Ge-off)*

I'll see if I can get some suspension installed photos into my thread for you. I think our suspension is fairly similar.. shouldn't vary much from mine.
While you're waiting, post pics of your new purchase. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Help with air setup on '63 Benz fintail (Dreamstate)*

Here is the beast, let me know what you guys think.. on a side note does anyone know where too order portawalls (fake whitewall caps)? 
sorry for the camera phone pics but you get the idea, I can't wait to bag this thing!!


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## Synclo (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Help with air setup on '63 Benz fintail (Ge-off)*

oooooh http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif one of my dream cars to bag!!!
i was going to order some port-a-walls a while ago http://vintagewarehouse.com/VW.html
i can't wait to see this thing bagged http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif and there better be better quality pics along the way


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## ryanmiller (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: Help with air setup on '63 Benz fintail (Ge-off)*

WOW that thing is slick!
take the wheels off and post up some pictures of the suspension so we can help direct you where to go and what to get!


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## Hinrichs (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: Help with air setup on '63 Benz fintail (Ge-off)*

if you need the portawalls in 14s my one friend has alot of them...lemme know


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Help with air setup on '63 Benz fintail (Hinrichs)*

Thanks, but the portawalls I need are 13" and with what I've seen around (1 3/4")I think I might have to go with a new wheel tire combo (14"?). Anyway thanks guys, glad you like the project. I'll try to get the wheels off and take some suspension pics this week.. In the mean time should I order the necessities? compressor, tank, valves etc.. or should I wait. Doubt there is a applicable kit for sale.. lmk.. Thanks.


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## crippled4life (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: Help with air setup on '63 Benz fintail (Ge-off)*

ya that car is nasty http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif wish it were mine...does it have a frame?


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## [email protected] (Jan 25, 2008)

Sweet fintail!! We are actually doing a build up on a W111 1966 230S, which I believe is the same car. He is running dual Viair 480C's 8 gallon tank, digital AutoPilot, and our Dominator bags. He is going to be documenting the build on vintagebenz.org


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I checked out Vintagebenz.org and that car looks badass! That is exactly what we are going for except the stacked headlights and a few other things. Were the dominator bags a bolt in job or did he have to do some mods/fabrication? We are having a hard time finding info or detailed descriptions of the parts we are going to need. I checked out the dominators on your site, did he go with the D2500's? I guess the only difference between the 2 is the stroke and the weight limit which we should have no trouble with. Can I purchase the bags from you? VWvortex discount








We are trying to get this all rolling but there are so many variables that we are running into. Are we going to have to get shorter shocks? My buddy said we will but I haven't seen much about that online.
I was able to find a pic of a '67 250s which has almost the same suspension, I hope this helps until I can get our pics up here.


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## crippled4life (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: (Ge-off)*

^^^why don't you just replace those trailing arm things with a 2 link extended closer to the front of the car and fab mounts to run the bags on the link bars..then relocate the shocks?


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (crippled4life)*

That would probably be the best way to do it but we are doing this on a tight budget and the car is just going to be a cruiser. That is a lot more work then we want to do. If it was a bolt on deal I would be all over it though.


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## [email protected] (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: (Ge-off)*

simple trailing arm suspension. Whats the diameter of the coil spring and how close is it to the axle tube? That pretty straight forward for me.


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I will try to measure the spring tonight and the distance to the axle tube. Are the all ready assembled "starter Kits" a good idea or can I shop around and save some money pieceing it together my self? I plan on just doing the rear as 1 switch and the front as 1 switch, how many vlaves will I need? Sorry for all the n00b questions but I dont want to waste a bunch of time and money with the wrong stuff.


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## Brian Fantana (Aug 20, 2007)

*Re: (Ge-off)*

If you are just going for FB and pancake, you only need 4 valves instead of the normal 8 most people go with


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (Brian Fantana)*

Cool so 4 of these should do:

1/2" Chrome 300 PSI Solenoid with Bracket - http://www.airassisted.com/pro...id=85
any suggestions on tank and compressor brands? or more importantly ones to stay away from?


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## Brian Fantana (Aug 20, 2007)

*Re: (Ge-off)*

Make sure you get a DOT approved tank (anything from Kevin will be legit)
compressors is all depending upon: 
How quick you want a fill up?
Do you want/care if the compressors are loud opposed to quiet?
Etc
etc...
I'm running to Viair 400Cs, they are loud but quick a **** and i http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif em http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (Brian Fantana)*

2 compressors? is that really needed? Id like to go with one compressor but I dont want it to take forever to fill either.. I don't care if it makes some noise but I dont want it to be annoying at the same time. decisions, decisions. well if you have any recommendations for us that would be great! also I still need to know if I need new shocks as well? Thanks for all the help guys, I want to start ordering parts asap. Also thanks for the info on the portawalls, I ordered 13"x2.5" caps today!


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## Dreamstate (Jan 2, 2002)

Updated my thread to give you a few ideas.
The rears are quite different from yours, but the front may be the same.


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (Dreamstate)*

Ok so here are a few more pictures, they aren't the best but I hope they help a bit... When I get a chance hopefully Wednesday night I will be able to pull a wheel off and measure the spring OD and the distance to the axle tube.
Front Suspension:

































And the rears look the same as above.


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## [email protected] (Jan 25, 2008)

*Re: (Ge-off)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ge-off* »_I checked out Vintagebenz.org and that car looks badass! That is exactly what we are going for except the stacked headlights and a few other things. Were the dominator bags a bolt in job or did he have to do some mods/fabrication? We are having a hard time finding info or detailed descriptions of the parts we are going to need. I checked out the dominators on your site, did he go with the D2500's? I guess the only difference between the 2 is the stroke and the weight limit which we should have no trouble with. Can I purchase the bags from you? VWvortex discount








We are trying to get this all rolling but there are so many variables that we are running into. Are we going to have to get shorter shocks? My buddy said we will but I haven't seen much about that online.
I was able to find a pic of a '67 250s which has almost the same suspension, I hope this helps until I can get our pics up here.









The D2500's will work just fine, and there will be some modifcations to use them. If you are going to use the bags I would buy them from Kevin at AAC, those guys are awesome to deal with!!


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## [email protected] (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: (Ge-off)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ge-off* »_Cool so 4 of these should do:

1/2" Chrome 300 PSI Solenoid with Bracket - http://www.airassisted.com/pro...id=85
any suggestions on tank and compressor brands? or more importantly ones to stay away from?

Thats a very nice valve. But 1/2" may not be necessary. 3/8" will be plenty quick enough. 
Chrome tanks are junk. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## crippled4life (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Chrome tanks are junk. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

x2


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (crippled4life)*

Ok well we will definitely stay away from the chrome tanks. We were thinking aluminum polished or maybe powder coated black. Anyways I got the spring measurements, they are:
Spring outside diameter is about 5.5" front and rear
Spring circumference is about 16.5" front and rear
The rear springs sit 1" off the axle tube.
I hope this helps!


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## Dreamstate (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: (Ge-off)*

Looks like a super easy setup then.. re5 all around!


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Help with air setup on '63 Benz fintail (Ge-off)*

Finally we have decided on what our setup is going to be








Here are the parts, let me know if this looks good and if I am missing anything!
- 4 x Slam Specialties RE5 200 PSI Single port bags $74.95 = $299.80
- 4 x AirLift 3/8" Chrome 300 PSI Solenoid valves $34.99 = $139.96
- 1 x Viair 380 compressor $183.00
- 1 x 5 Gallon Aluminum Air Tank 4 1/2" ports & 5x 3/8" Ports $91.25
- 1 x 3/8 Filter/Water Trap SMC ALL METAL $29.95
- 1 x Tank pressure switch $17.95
- 1 x Tank gauge $20.00
- 1 x VIAIR 2" Dual Needle Gauge White Face Illuminated 220psi $27.99
- 2 x Switches ~$15.00
- 1 x 50ft Roll 3/8" Air Line - Black $25.00
- 4 x Upper circle plates single port $5.99 = $23.96
- 4 x Lower circle plates $5.99 = $23.96
- 8 x Custom bag cups
I know I will need fittings... How many fittings are we going to need? and what types? We are planning on mounting the valves directly to the tank.
Please let me know if this looks good or if you guys have any suggestions! Thanks


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## crippled4life (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: Help with air setup on '63 Benz fintail (Ge-off)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ge-off* »_Finally we have decided on what our setup is going to be








Here are the parts, let me know if this looks good and if I am missing anything!
- 4 x Slam Specialties RE5 200 PSI Single port bags $74.95 = $299.80
- 4 x AirLift 3/8" Chrome 300 PSI Solenoid valves $34.99 = $139.96
- 1 x Viair 380 compressor $183.00
- 1 x 5 Gallon Aluminum Air Tank 4 1/2" ports & 5x 3/8" Ports $91.25
- 1 x 3/8 Filter/Water Trap SMC ALL METAL $29.95
- 1 x Tank pressure switch $17.95
- 1 x Tank gauge $20.00
- 1 x VIAIR 2" Dual Needle Gauge White Face Illuminated 220psi $27.99
- 2 x Switches ~$15.00
- 1 x 50ft Roll 3/8" Air Line - Black $25.00
- 4 x Upper circle plates single port $5.99 = $23.96
- 4 x Lower circle plates $5.99 = $23.96
- 8 x Custom bag cups
I know I will need fittings... How many fittings are we going to need? and what types? We are planning on mounting the valves directly to the tank.
Please let me know if this looks good or if you guys have any suggestions! Thanks









looks pretty good..uve got everything.might want to pick up some line for that gauge .and its all opinion based so looks like u got the main stuff covered..as for fittings it all depends on how and where u are running everything. def pick up extra 90's..some 90 swivels too,reducers, t's, plugs...u should actually just draw ur set up out..so u can come close to not overspending too much...but it is usually a given that u will get too many(which is a good thing to keep in ur car for emergencies) or u will get some fittings that just wont work and u will have to buy more..really depends http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Dreamstate (Jan 2, 2002)

Take note that having one of the manual switches for two bags will be pretty slow. If you don't care to adjust often, you will be fine.. but you won't be able to do any emergency up maneuvers.


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (Dreamstate)*

What do you mean by manual switches? Will 1 3/8" valve really be slow for 2 bags?


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## Dreamstate (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: (Ge-off)*

Oh jeez! Totally misread


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (Dreamstate)*

Ok So I am about to order everything and came across the ASCO valve manifolds, this one to be exact:
2 way ASCO 3/8 Direct Acting Valve Manifold Polished Billet Alum
http://www.airassisted.com/pro...d=384









It's is $230 so more expensive then the 4 valves we were going to go with but it will make the install cleaner and easier. Now the questions, this includes the valves correct? Are these a good idea/any down sides to them? Thanks!


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (Ge-off)*

Well i figured out the valve stuff and went with the ASCO manifold. Here is the final order:
1 x 175/200 PSI $17.49
4 x ALKON BRASS 3/8 X 1/2NPT 90 degree swivel male elbow DOT PTC $35.96
1 x 5 Gallon Aluminum Air Tank 4 1/2" ports & 5x 3/8" Ports $91.25
1 x 2 way ASCO 3/8 Direct Acting Valve Manifold Polished Billet Alum
- Colours: Billet + $0.00 $229.00
4 x RE 200 PSI Single port
- Size: 5 + $0.00 $299.80
1 x 50ft Roll 3/8" Air Line - Black $25.00
1 x Viair 380 $183.00
1 x 3/8 Filter/Water Trap SMC ALL METAL $29.95
3 x EASYSTREET Single needle gauge 2" 0-200psi $59.85
4 x ALKON BRASS 3/8 X 3/8" NPT male DOT PTC $17.00
2 x ALKON BRASS 3/8 DOT PTC UNION T $14.78
Now we wait


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (Ge-off)*

A little update and a few questions. 
We received all of our stuff from Kevin @ AAC. The stuff looks great and we are getting all the other little stuff together so we can get the install rolling








I will post up some pics when I can of everything. Here are my questions, first the valves and mainfold. We went with the ASCO valve/manifold combo for simplicity and it is a very nice piece. I just want to make sure I am plumbing it correctly and since AAC is closed for the week I hope you guys can help me out. With the 2 x 2 valve blocks put together there is a total of 8 ports and this is how I have them plumbed:
2 x Deivery - one for the front, one for the rear (each will be T'd)
2 x Gauge - bag pressure gauges.
2 x Supply - 1 is air in from tank and the other one will be plugged.
2 x Exhaust - leave these open.
Is that correct??

Second question, We are going to run a switch for the compressor incase we dont want it to fill the tank or whatever. We have a pressure switch also but want this too. I was thinking of running it inline with the pressure switch. Is that the best way to do it? Or should I run it between the compressor and the power source? Should I put a relay in it or just a fuse??
Thanks for the help everyone!


_Modified by Ge-off at 12:29 PM 7-23-2008_


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (Ge-off)*

can anyone help me with my questions?


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## Shawn W. (May 6, 2007)

*Re: (Ge-off)*

Run it inline with the relays for the pressure switch







For the kill switch. 
no relay power the pumps will stay off.


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## [email protected] (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: (Ge-off)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ge-off* »_A little update and a few questions. 
We received all of our stuff from Kevin @ AAC. The stuff looks great and we are getting all the other little stuff together so we can get the install rolling








I will post up some pics when I can of everything. Here are my questions, first the valves and mainfold. We went with the ASCO valve/manifold combo for simplicity and it is a very nice piece. I just want to make sure I am plumbing it correctly and since AAC is closed for the week I hope you guys can help me out. With the 2 x 2 valve blocks put together there is a total of 8 ports and this is how I have them plumbed:
2 x Deivery - one for the front, one for the rear (each will be T'd)
2 x Gauge - bag pressure gauges.
2 x Supply - 1 is air in from tank and the other one will be plugged.
2 x Exhaust - leave these open.
Is that correct??

Second question, We are going to run a switch for the compressor incase we dont want it to fill the tank or whatever. We have a pressure switch also but want this too. I was thinking of running it inline with the pressure switch. Is that the best way to do it? Or should I run it between the compressor and the power source? Should I put a relay in it or just a fuse??
Thanks for the help everyone!

_Modified by Ge-off at 12:29 PM 7-23-2008_

You're right with the plumbing question. Leave the exshast ports open.
You shound use a relay and a fuse. I put the pressure switch on the ground wire of the relay. And I put a switch on the ignition wire. I can send you a diagrame when I get back from Nova Scotia.


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

That would be cool Kevin, thanks.
OK so finally some pics of our progress. We spent a good chunk of yesterday building our false floor and mounting our tank and compressor. We used 3/4" MDF board and then a fake hardwood to finish it. This was the first time any of us built something like this, and I think it came out pretty good. We dropped off the car today to get the bag cups built and installed and we should have it back by the middle of the week. What do you guys think? and sorry for the camera phone pics!

















































































and a badass cadi for good measures....


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## QUATTROGLEN (Jun 10, 2008)

C'mon Geoff, red x's?? I can't see the pics!


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## [email protected] (Jan 26, 2006)

Nice start!


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Thanks Kevin! We are hoping to get the car back tonight with the cups and bags installed. All we have left is some wiring and she should be good to go







We are going to finish the rest of the floor in the trunk once we have the valves mounted in their final position so it will ba all uniform. I cant wait.......


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (Ge-off)*

So we picked up the benz last night and it looks great. We have a problem with the right front bag fitting leaking but we are taking care of that tonight. I am getting the fuse holder for the compressor power wire today and the remaining odds and ends to finish her up tonight! I do have a few more questions so hopefully you guys can help out. 
For the compressor we are going to run a switch at the dash to turn it off completely if we want, should I also run a relay or is this overkill? 
To hook up the tank pressure switch should I be running it inline with the gound or the power for the compressor? I was doing ground but wanted to make sure this was right. 
Here is a pic from when we picked it up. This is almost all the way down. Right now the exhaust is limiting us a little but it looks good and once we get the white walls on it is going to look awesome.









_Modified by Ge-off at 11:13 AM 8-1-2008_


_Modified by Ge-off at 11:15 AM 8-1-2008_


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## [email protected] (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: (Ge-off)*


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

We got the right front fitting replaced and all the switches hooked up. Drove it to the tire shop and had the white wall caps put on... I think she looks pretty badass!










































_Modified by Ge-off at 8:03 PM 8-3-2008_


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## Starion88esir (Jan 3, 2005)

Twisted Minis!
Looks good.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (Starion88esir)*

that came out awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Ge-off (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Thanks for the compliments guys! Twisted Mini's is the shop that built our air bag cups and did the suspension fab stuff. The guy does great work but its mostly mini trucks. Here is a shot of the rear, and sorry about the quality its from my iphone.


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## AEB A4 (Sep 2, 2006)

*Re: (Ge-off)*








car looks amazing http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Dreamstate (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: (AEB A4)*

fantastic. any further work being done apart from the suspension?


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## QUATTROGLEN (Jun 10, 2008)

*Re: (Dreamstate)*

Yeah, not done yet.. Next up is interior and mounting for the switches etc.. We'll keep the pics coming though so you guys can see the progress!


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## benny_mech (Mar 5, 2003)

*Re: (QUATTROGLEN)*

Still one of my favorite cars of all time, and the stance makes it truly bad ass. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: (benny_mech)*

well, that turned out nice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Iv heard good things about Seth.


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## Twisted Minis (Aug 6, 2008)

Heres some pictures I took before you guys picked it up.
































And I just say I do Chassis and Suspension design, because I really work on everything. Hot rods and minitrucks are the norm though.


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## QUATTROGLEN (Jun 10, 2008)

First "show" this Saturday! pics to follow!!


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