# ugh crap.....



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I have been having issues with cis-e, and I am at my limits with this stuff. It works great, but little gremlins have been chasing my tail all the time.
So I decided i wanted Digi-2. Got the whole setup, rail and all for an unbelievable price. I would need a few odds and ends to make it run, but its all there.
Then the other day a friend of mine mentioned he had a Digi-1 harness, and thats it. But I would rather run Digi-1 any day of the week due to greater capabilities over Digifart-2.
Then I went to a swap meet, and saw something I couldn't pass up...for $20. Crap......
















They seemed to be in good shape, so I figured why not.
They are supposed to 38mm flatsides, so a little small but should do okay until 6500 rpm. Also they only require 3psi of pressure, so lets discuss how I can do that, all methods explained whether they are right or wrong.
As far as mounting, since they are pretty much almost perfect in regards to spacing, i was thinking of running them right over the valve cover and attaching them with some extremely rigid rubber hoses, ones that will not collapse under vacuum
Lets discuss these carbs and my plans....
edit: What can I do i regards to a throttle cable....


_Modified by Dave926 at 2:08 PM 11-3-2008_


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

a handful of people have run flat slides with decent results 
run a carter fuel pump with a regulator for the fuel pressure. 
Use creativity for the rest of it rubber connectors should work 


_Modified by chrisbmx68 at 5:53 PM 11-3-2008_


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## sandrunner (Apr 26, 2003)

Those aren't flatsides, they're CVs, but honestly that's a good thing. It's gonna take a bit of trial and error to get the tuning right but it's definitly unique.
Running rubber hoses for attachment points is what the M/C community has been doing for years so it will work perfectly. Be sure to mount some support struts between the motor and the carbs to keep them from vibrating loose.
For throttle cables I go to the local bicycle shop. They have made me cables with the length and ends I want for about $10.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (sandrunner)*

Thats a nice bit of information...never thought that boke shops made custom cables.
I have heard of people using the stock intank pump and regulating as necessary, and deleting the high pressure pump. Anyone suppose there is a regulator that would knock down the pressure enough?
A friend of mine did that with his Firechicken, when it went from an efi motor to a small block.
Another dude i know of did it running his webers...was a digi-2 pump though iirc.
And correct me if i am wrong, but the side with the air bleeds is the air filter side correct ?


_Modified by Dave926 at 3:39 PM 11-3-2008_


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

there is only one regulator I know of that will work with a high pressure bosch style pump and carbs. Its used by porsche guys there was a thread about it in the carb - item - sem forum maybe 5 months ago. It is pricey though cause its pretty complicated


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

bam found the thread for you 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3473550


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

i cannot find the regulator on there website...can someone post up a link?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (Dave926)*

okay found the feed line when the car was on the lift the other. I had exhaust made because the local pd coerced me into getting a new one.
I figure running a hard line (brake line) to the front to a fuel pressure regulator.
Now my question to all of you is do all regs. require the use of a return line, or is there one I could use without one?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (Dave926)*

yea i went through the faq, saw the timing computer and was like wow, great idea...then I saw the price.
The carbs I have use little ports on the top of them for synching them, does anyone suppose I could use them to supply the vauum source for the stock knock box?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: ugh crap..... (Dave926)*

anyone?


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

I dont see why the stock knock box wouldn't work with a vac manifold setup.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Ive gathered some little tidbits of info on the saab dizzy, so here it goes on a budget setup.....
Saab Dizzy (vac advance)
MSD Coil (on my car now)
The coil will get 12v switched, but my question is can it be like an ignition running type of thing, where if I get into an accident the fuel pump doesnt keep running.
I would like to eliminate as much **** as possible out of the engine bay.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: ugh crap..... (Dave926)*

how about a ford inertia switch in the trunk or something....anyone?
How sensitive are they with a lowered car?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: ugh crap..... (Dave926)*

1- the CIS-E stuff will work fine, do NOT delete the dizzy for a saab unit, especially since it requires ported vacuum, not manifold vacuum (pre throttle plates not after). You can run the stock ignition computer off a single vacuum line, it works fine, even though it's not ideal. This is how I am running my dual dells, and it doesn't seem to protest at all.
2- I was running a holley regulator, with no return, with no issues. Now I am running a 2.5-4.5 Facet 40105 fuel pump without a reg, and still no issues. The holley regs are cheap, so get one if you need one. I've blanked off my return line, since I might switch back to EFI one day.
3- interia switch? Why?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: ugh crap..... (B4S)*

I didnt think a single vac line would work....i was thinking 4 lines tee-ing into one would give the most stable signal to the ecu. I have never taken apart a cis-e harness, but I would like to eliminate all the excess wiring with the exception of the knock sense ecu. 
The reason I was thinking of using a inertia switch is because of running the saab dizzy......fuel cutoff in the event of an accident.
Also....did you just blank off the return right at the tank? I did a clutch once a cabby and removed the fuel dizzy to get it out of my way...only to discover that if you dont take the gas cap off it spit gas at me under the car every once and a while....


_Modified by Dave926 at 8:15 AM 11-14-2008_


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I blocked mine off in the bay, and left the tank ventilation stuff in place (mostly) so pressure never builds up and forces gas out of the return line.
Under cruising-WOT rpms, the signal is quite stable, mainly because the pulses happen faster and faster, so the ECU has no problems sorting it out. A 4-1 setup would be ideal, but not necessary in my experience. If you retrofit the idle switch, once it closes the ECU ignores the vacuum signal anyway and runs off a pre-programmed ignition map. Keeping the CIS-E stuff allows you to retain the stock dizzy, the saab unit is of no use at that point since the ECU handles the ignition timing. The knock sensor runs off the same box as the ignition stuff, so it's a win/win situation







. I'm a big fan of standalone ignition/fuel setups, but the ease of installation/use of the CIS-E stuff makes carbs a DREAM to work with.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Here is the next thing that I wonder.....
Do you suppose that all the wiring from the knock box/icm are able to be separated from the wiring from oxs computer....I kinda want to eliminate as much of that **** as possible.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Dave926)*

Sure, why not. The OXS computer is separate from the knockbox, and both of the knockbox harnesses I have don't have a single connection to the OXS computer left in them. One harness is a little rough, but I redid the second one and it's about 10 wires total.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

The reason I asked is because on cis-e the only wire I know that connects the two of them is the rpm signal wire.....are there any more than that?
Thats a good point on retrofitting the idle switch, now what about the WOT switch?
I assume I dont have to necessarily use the switches on my throttle body, so long as they are a momentary switch?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Dave926)*

It's not 100% necessary to use the switches, I was and now I am not. Car runs the same either way it seems. The closed idle switch tells the ecu to ignore the vacuum reading so it idles on a fixed ignition map, and nobody really knows what the wot switch does although I suspect it just tells the ecu to ignore the knock sensor after a specific rpm, since the valvetrain noise can get bad. You could mount the idle switch on the throttle pedal even, to engage at closed throttle, so no it's not necessary to use OE stuff. Momentary switches are cool.
There isn't really any other tie-in between the two ecus, since they both do separate things. You're good to go http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Could you post up some more pics of those carbs? 
I sold a set of Mikuni BST 36's a while back, and I accumulated a few sites with useful information. If yours are BST's, they are tough to find information for, and I'd be happy to send you what I have.
What diameter (in mm) are the throttle plates?
Mike.


_Modified by Jettaboy1884 at 9:35 AM 11-21-2008_


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (Jettaboy1884)*

Thats a photo from the internet...too lazy to take any pictures.
I believe they are either 36's or 38's, but most defintiely "Slingshots"
I found quite a write-up on http://gixxer.com with a whole disassembly and rebuild process. I finally got around to taking all the carbs apart and inspecting them. They seem to be in good shape and maybe need a freshen-up with some new gaskets/o-rings and a little cleaning.
Any help is greatly appreciated


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## sandrunner (Apr 26, 2003)

Here's the site I used when I did my Knock Sensing ignition. Very easy, very few wires and easy to seperate from the rest of the harness.
http://www.driversfound.com/scirocco/ Click on Knock Sensor link.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (sandrunner)*

I was in the 16v forum the other day and came across an ignition controller called the megajolt or some **** like that. 
Standalone ignition controller, with some nice features and a case you build yourself with everyting included for a sum of $89 bucks.
I am going to get the car running first with just the carbs, and then when summer comes around and its a bit nicer im gonna clean up the bay a bit.
I figure a simple recipe...a little hidden wiring, megajolt, early mk1 radiator (no external overflow tank), no cis...should look half-way decent on my meager budget. 
That was until I mentioned it to my buddy...who now insist that we strip the engine bay, keep the outside of the car kinda ratty and pretty up the engine bay.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (Dave926)*

The megajolt setup is nice, but you also have to factor in the price of the Ford EDIS parts you need to use. You can do the same thing with a basic Megasquirt setup, but only use the ignition wiring. I may be running a setup like that next year







.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (B4S)*

im figuring junkyard parts.....there are escorts and probes at jy's everywhere within a reasonable driving distance.
I may try to find some basic diagnostic test to see if the said components are good. The only hurdle would be mounting up the trigger wheel, be it from diyautotune or the one from an escort....but then again my buddy has an entire machine shop in his garage


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (Dave926)*

i just read the all carb diet from B4s...i cant friggin wait to get these things on.
Hopefully with cv's i wont have the tuning issues that he had....just drill the mains a little and be good to go.
I might just get one of those ****-band gauges from autozone or pepboys for the time being so i can at least get a rough idea how the car is running.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: (Dave926)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dave926* »_im figuring junkyard parts.....there are escorts and probes at jy's everywhere within a reasonable driving distance.


You'd want to find an Escort, or Mercury Tracer with the 1.9L motor.
I had absolutely no trouble finding at least three eligible cars within the first few minutes of hitting a big JY in Pennsylvania.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (Dave926)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dave926* »_i just read the all carb diet from B4s...i cant friggin wait to get these things on.
Hopefully with cv's i wont have the tuning issues that he had....just drill the mains a little and be good to go.
I might just get one of those ****-band gauges from autozone or pepboys for the time being so i can at least get a rough idea how the car is running.

I'll be the first to admit that a lot of my issues were self-inflicted, lol. I've since settled on a single setup, and after a few hundred hours of tuning...I've ended up at the original settings that the carbs came with (more or less). Goes to show that some times it's not necessary to re-invent the wheel...but it sure is fun! I don't think I would have learned the same amount of stuff either, if I hadn't gone down the path I did, so it's all been worth it. As long as the wife doesn't find out how much money I've spent on jets...everything will be ok







.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (B4S)*

yea i was kinda wondering what the tally was on how much you have spent on jets.....
The way I understand motorcycle carbs and how they work on cars is all a lot of people are doing is just drilling out the main jets and playing with the needle clip height (how soon the main jet comes on) based on their application/needs.
Jettaboy, the crank wheels on those are external correct...i mean im not going to have to go all ape**** and remove a transmission or drop a pan to get these am I?


_Modified by Dave926 at 11:16 AM 11-28-2008_


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: (Dave926)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dave926* »_Jettaboy, the crank wheels on those are external correct...i mean im not going to have to go all ape**** and remove a transmission or drop a pan to get these am I?


The crank wheels are external, and look a lot like an ABA wheel, but with a 36-1 gear on the backside. It was a piece of cake to remove, and IIRC the crank bolt wasn't even that tight. You have to jam up the motor to loosen the bolt.
Now, you also want to grab the EDIS module, coilpack, and VR sensor. the VR sensor is quite a bit harder to get to, so I just left it and decided that I'll buy a new one.
I used to know of a site which had good pictures of where to locate the EDIS components in the engine bay, but I can't find it at the moment.
Here's a few helpful links:
http://www.bgsoflex.com/mjl/mjl_edis_summary.html
http://www.dainst.com/info/edis/edis.html


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (Jettaboy1884)*

seems simple enough to set up....do you suppose i could use a vr sensor from like a 2.0 or whatever.....i have a few laying around i think somewhere in my stock pile of ****.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (Dave926)*

I know progress is slow, but dumb **** always comes up.
I recently picked up a set of tools, and within 24 hrs the alt was dropped to where the a/c compressor was.
Another friend of mine is cutting a stock 16v intake manifold for me, right after the cold start valve/rail, and plug up where the cis injectors were
Then I realized the other day that I'm probably going to need to get a damn ABF coolant flange.....








Anyone confirm this.....i mean its cutting it close and I would hate to have the damn car apart only to discover this.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

If you can find a 1.8 16v coolant flange, they're aluminum so you can cut and weld it







.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: ugh crap..... (Dave926)*

mine is a 1.8...problem is good luck finding someone around here who can tig aluminum


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## zornig (May 12, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_If you can find a 1.8 16v coolant flange, they're aluminum so you can cut and weld it







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those things are very dirty and usually dont weld very good. I welded many of them and if I never have to weld another thats fine with me.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

True, I haven't seen a good looking one yet...but sometimes ya gotta work with what you've got







.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

twm has one but they are like $60 or so


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (candm)*

looked on their website...where is it?


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Dave926)*

its not listed but give them a call


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## ftwelder (Feb 27, 2008)

*Re: ugh crap..... (Dave926)*

here are some parts I made, I have since traded them off. I a working on converting the MC carbs to ITB's








jets really should not be drilled. It effects much more than fuel flow. You can buy replacements from Sudco for most models.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: ugh crap..... (ftwelder)*

I looked on there a while back for parts for the Mikuni BST's/Slingshots and found nothing.
I know we discussed about the manifold...but for a fact with no getting around it I could use that waterneck.....


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: ugh crap..... (Dave926)*

ordered a tbelt, tensioner pulley and hood prop clip from GAP yesterday, should recieve today....GAP is the ****.
Also ordered the Holley fuel pressure regulator, barb fittings, and mechanical fuel pressure gauge from them as well.
When i put them all together, I assume I need to use some teflon tape to seal them up, or can i use teflon paste instead?
The only things I need left are a cut 16v manifold, b3 vr6 tb cable, bolts to block the injectors off, and a few other odds and ends.
So far I'm into this project for around $100 bucks, not including the **** I still need to pick up


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: ugh crap..... (Dave926)*

does anyone know if I need to use the teflon tape to seal things up, or put it together I should be good to go?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: ugh crap..... (Dave926)*

I had a holley reg for a while, with brass barb fittings, and no teflon tape. The barbs at my fuel pump aren't taped either, you should be fine as long as they're snug http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: ugh crap..... (B4S)*

ABF coolant flange on its way......just in case I need it.
Who thinks i can do this in 2 days, on a stone driveway?


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