# Anyone driven both an A3 and S3?



## redwing497 (Nov 24, 2015)

So, my S3 went to the dealer for rear shock mount TSB. Got an A3 2.0 Quattro as a loaner. For some reason, the A3 felt way more responsive and torquier at low rpm. The clutch on the dsg also engaged quicker and smoother when taking my foot off the brake from a stop. 

My S3 dsg kind of slips the clutch briefly before fully enagaging, making quick take offs from stoplights problematic. I also can feel a slight shudder. Is this just the nature of the S3 and performance oriented parts, or could there be something wrong? 

Just wanted to see if anyone was familiar with the characteristics of both cars. Thanks


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## Ryegor (Feb 26, 2008)

I apologize for derailing your thread, but would like to know what was wrong with shocks and what the mentioned TSB is.

My S3's rear shocks feel very bumpy. Going over even small bumps they make this loud tumbling noise. Is it something similar you had?


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## robopp (Aug 5, 2012)

When I had a loaner A3 I was amazed at how quiet it was a stop light. Like, the engine isn't running anymore quiet, but the A3 doesn't get auto start/stop in the US so I'm pretty sure it was still running. lol.


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## robopp (Aug 5, 2012)

Ryegor said:


> I apologize for derailing your thread, but would like to know what was wrong with shocks and what the mentioned TSB is.
> 
> My S3's rear shocks feel very bumpy. Going over even small bumps they make this loud tumbling noise. Is it something similar you had?


There's a TSB on the rear strut mounts if they're making a louder than normal bang over bumps. TSB #2042645/1


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

redwing497 said:


> So, my S3 went to the dealer for rear shock mount TSB. Got an A3 2.0 Quattro as a loaner. For some reason, the A3 felt way more responsive and torquier at low rpm. The clutch on the dsg also engaged quicker and smoother when taking my foot off the brake from a stop.
> 
> My S3 dsg kind of slips the clutch briefly before fully enagaging, making quick take offs from stoplights problematic. I also can feel a slight shudder. Is this just the nature of the S3 and performance oriented parts, or could there be something wrong?
> 
> Just wanted to see if anyone was familiar with the characteristics of both cars. Thanks



I have driven both quite extensively. I believe what you felt was caused by the following:

1) A3 2.0T quattro is around 100 lbs. lighter than the S3.

2) The smaller turbo of the A3 2.0T quattro should in theory be better at low rpm (not saying it is overall quicker, but it might feel more responsive).


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## Ryegor (Feb 26, 2008)

robopp said:


> There's a TSB on the rear strut mounts if they're making a louder than normal bang over bumps. TSB #2042645/1


Thank you!


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

I've owned both. 

S3 > a3


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## redwing497 (Nov 24, 2015)

I figured the smaller turbo would have something to do with it. The behavior of the dsg was better too, but I guess it's just set up that way for smoothness. I'll voice my concerns at my 5k mile service and see what they have to say. 

As for the rear shock mount TSB, it's an absolutely night and day difference. If you have the symptoms of a loud hollow thunk and feel like it's crashing over bumps, get it done. Free of charge.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

I own both. Someone mentioned that the A3 is lighter, yes it is, I created a post a couple of month back giving details of the weight, I took both cars to the racetrack and I weighted them both at a official NHRA scale and the A3 is roughly 140lbs lighter.
As far is the response, well.. smaller turbos(A3) have better response so hence you felt the A3 felt responsive. The DSGs are the same although the software might be calibrated differently to accommodate different shifting points.

In summary, the S3 destroys the A3 in a real testing, I took both cars to the racetrack (I created a topic about this) and the S3 simply demolish the A3 in pure acceleration.


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## davera3 (Jul 26, 2014)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> I own both. Someone mentioned that the A3 is lighter, yes it is, I created a post a couple of month back giving details of the weight, I took both cars to the racetrack and I weighted them both at a official NHRA scale and the A3 is roughly 140lbs lighter.
> As far is the response, well.. smaller turbos(A3) have better response so hence you felt the A3 felt responsive. The DSGs are the same although the software might be calibrated differently to accommodate different shifting points.
> 
> In summary, the S3 destroys the A3 in a real testing, I took both cars to the racetrack (I created a topic about this) and the S3 simply demolish the A3 in pure acceleration.


What did you think about the handling between the two? This might be a bad apples to apples comparison if the A3 doesnt have the sport suspension and the S3 has the magride...


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## India Whiskey Charlie (Feb 15, 2006)

VWNCC said:


> A3 2.0T quattro is around 100 lbs. lighter than the S3


Seriously? Where exactly are those extra 100 lbs. on the S3?


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

India Whiskey Charlie said:


> Seriously? Where exactly are those extra 100 lbs. on the S3?





1998GTIVR6 said:


> I own both. Someone mentioned that the A3 is lighter, yes it is, I created a post a couple of month back giving details of the weight, I took both cars to the racetrack and I weighted them both at a official NHRA scale and the A3 is roughly 140lbs lighter.
> As far is the response, well.. smaller turbos(A3) have better response so hence you felt the A3 felt responsive. The DSGs are the same although the software might be calibrated differently to accommodate different shifting points.
> 
> In summary, the S3 destroys the A3 in a real testing, I took both cars to the racetrack (I created a topic about this) and the S3 simply demolish the A3 in pure acceleration.



See 1998GTIVR6's post above. He owns both and he has weighed both and the S3 is 140 lbs heavier. You can also find the specification from the Audi website, the S3 is ~100 lbs. heavier.

The extra weight is no doubt from the bigger turbo, bigger brake, bigger sway bar, and the more complex exhaust system.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

davera3 said:


> What did you think about the handling between the two? This might be a bad apples to apples comparison if the A3 doesnt have the sport suspension and the S3 has the magride...


Unfortunately for sport driving the A3 is in a lose -lose situation because my A3 is the base 2.0 model and my S3 has the mag ride with the 19" wheels so as far is handling the S3 sweeps the A3. On a different note, if you like soft suspension the A3 base model is very soft.

I am in the process of looking for springs for the A3. The suspension is too soft for the tune, the car lifts the front end and squads down on hard acceleration. The body roll is bad, really bad.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

India Whiskey Charlie said:


> Seriously? Where exactly are those extra 100 lbs. on the S3?


Do a search on my user name, I weighted both cars at the track with the same amount of gas(3 LEDS). My A3 is the quattro and base model and my S3 has plenty of equipment but I found the difference on weight about 140lbs. I also went and weighted all the other stuff independently like the floor mats, spare tire, trunk mat, tools.

The S3 has more hardware (oil coolers, heavier wheels, bigger rotors and more add ons). If you give me your e-mail on a PM I can send you the actual pictures from when I had the cars at the scale.

LINK here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-A3-Quattro-and-S3-at-the-track-(NHRA-scales)


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## davera3 (Jul 26, 2014)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> Unfortunately for sport driving the A3 is in a lose -lose situation because my A3 is the base 2.0 model and my S3 has the mag ride with the 19" wheels so as far is handling the S3 sweeps the A3. On a different note, if you like soft suspension the A3 base model is very soft.
> 
> I am in the process of looking for springs for the A3. The suspension is too soft for the tune, the car lifts the front end and squads down on hard acceleration. The body roll is bad, really bad.


Hate the soft suspension, and this was the A3 with sports suspension. Switched to H&R sports, better, but shocks/structs not great on heavy cornering, so switched to B8+H&R.
First track day with new B8 setup is tomorrow at Lime Rock, so I'll find out finally for myself.
But, I can already tell that I wish I just went for the B12 or B14. All of the mindf**king with 'Is this properly matched to that?' ain't worth it...


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## gamegenie (Aug 24, 2014)

With the A4 and A6 receiving the new 2.0T engine that clocks 252 HP, 273 lb ft torque , up from 220 HP, 258 lb ft torque, 

Do you think this will trickle down next year to the 2.0T A3 facelift next year?











The current A3 2.0T already does 0-60 at 5.8 secs, it will be even faster with the new 2.0T engine. 



The S3 facelift is also expected to get a 10HP boost from it's current 292 HP 280 lb ft. 


and of course the RS3 sedan, is rumored to have up to 400HP.


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

gamegenie said:


> With the A4 and A6 receiving the new 2.0T engine that clocks 252 HP, 273 lb ft torque , up from 220 HP, 258 lb ft torque,
> 
> Do you think this will trickle down next year to the 2.0T A3 facelift next year?


doubt it.. that's probably too close to the S3


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

davera3 said:


> Hate the soft suspension, and this was the A3 with sports suspension. Switched to H&R sports, better, but shocks/structs not great on heavy cornering, so switched to B8+H&R.
> First track day with new B8 setup is tomorrow at Lime Rock, so I'll find out finally for myself.
> But, I can already tell that I wish I just went for the B12 or B14. All of the mindf**king with 'Is this properly matched to that?' ain't worth it...


Hello, how is your new suspension setup with the B8 compared to stock and with just H&R alone?

Is it bouncy? How harsh is it?

BTW, if you want to switch to B12, you just need to get the Eibach prokit springs. I have confirmed with Eibach that the B12 is just Eibach prokit springs + Bilstein B8.


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## IBDustin15 (Jun 14, 2016)

I have driven both the Stock A3 is very mild. In my opinion JB1 A3 > Stock S3 for daily driver and straight line performance. The car is insanely quiet and such a smooth ride.


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## tkbear (Jun 5, 2015)

I drove an A3 loaner and felt the acceleration was more immediate, particularly on the lower end. As already mentioned, the smaller turbo could explain the reason why.


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## PbanyS3 (Jun 13, 2015)

gamegenie said:


> With the A4 and A6 receiving the new 2.0T engine that clocks 252 HP, 273 lb ft torque , up from 220 HP, 258 lb ft torque,
> 
> Do you think this will trickle down next year to the 2.0T A3 facelift next year?
> 
> ...






Car & Driver tested the 2017 A4 2.0t Quattro and got 0 to 60 in 5.2 seconds, 1/4 mile in 13.9 seconds at 100mph.

I would venture to say if the A3 acquired this new 2.0T it would perform similarly as well...


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

PbanyS3 said:


> Car & Driver tested the 2017 A4 2.0t Quattro and got 0 to 60 in 5.2 seconds, 1/4 mile in 13.9 seconds at 100mph.
> 
> I would venture to say if the A3 acquired this new 2.0T it would perform similarly as well...


I wouldn't hold my breath about the A3 getting it. Prior to this gen, even though both A3 and A4 used the EA888, A3 used Gen1 (no valvelift) and A4 used Gen2 (With valvelift), so that the A4 had a slight power advantage. It would make sense to me that with the A4 finally updated, that they would find a way to restore that spec bump for the A4s.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

araemo said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath about the A3 getting it. Prior to this gen, even though both A3 and A4 used the EA888, A3 used Gen1 (no valvelift) and A4 used Gen2 (With valvelift), so that the A4 had a slight power advantage. It would make sense to me that with the A4 finally updated, that they would find a way to restore that spec bump for the A4s.


We won't get it for 2017 for sure.

We are not even getting the power bump for the S3. No 7-speed for the A3 quattro nor S3 either.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

PbanyS3 said:


> Car & Driver tested the 2017 A4 2.0t Quattro and got 0 to 60 in 5.2 seconds, 1/4 mile in 13.9 seconds at 100mph.
> 
> I would venture to say if the A3 acquired this new 2.0T it would perform similarly as well...


If the A3 gets this engine it would be significantly quicker due to the weight differences. I am not sure if Audi will put the same engine on the A3 though, it might hurt the sales.


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## dubbinitmk6 (Oct 26, 2010)

The further lack of possibility due to A3 transversely mounted 2.0T vs A4 longitudinally mounted 2.0T.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

dubbinitmk6 said:


> The further lack of possibility due to A3 transversely mounted 2.0T vs A4 longitudinally mounted 2.0T.


For audi, that's not a huge issue, since it's just a rev of the same engine family and generation (As far as I know, this isn't even a gen4 ea888, it's still a gen3?), they already have the engineering done to transverse mount it. (Even if it was a gen4.. again, I bet all the important exterior dimensions are identical (engine mount points, crankshaft location, etc, etc..), so it would be largely a drop-in change if they chose to.)



VWNCC said:


> We won't get it for 2017 for sure.
> 
> We are not even getting the power bump for the S3. No 7-speed for the A3 quattro nor S3 either.


I'm completely ok with no 7-speed. The current DSG is pretty well-known and reliable, and as a wet-clutch unit, I'm less worried about its longevity with a tune than I would be a dry-clutch setup.. but in general, I'm planning on getting a '17, as long as they made the LED headlights not suck, and I plan to tune it and get a DSG reflash. If they got new engine and transmissions revs/models, the tunes wouldn't be available for a while, and I'd have to wait even longer, or put up with being a guinea pig.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

araemo said:


> I'm completely ok with no 7-speed. The current DSG is pretty well-known and reliable, and as a wet-clutch unit, I'm less worried about its longevity with a tune than I would be a dry-clutch setup.. but in general, I'm planning on getting a '17, as long as they made the LED headlights not suck, and I plan to tune it and get a DSG reflash. If they got new engine and transmissions revs/models, the tunes wouldn't be available for a while, and I'd have to wait even longer, or put up with being a guinea pig.


The new 7-speed DSG is also wet clutch. It isn't the same as the old 7-speed DSG used in the pre-facelift FWD A3.


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