# 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!!



## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

Yesterday, I finally had to do this to my Touareg:

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view









As I write this, my Touareg is AGAIN in the shop awaiting parts that are on national backorder.
Shop clock time since 7/31/2005…51 Days. My reply from VW…"We will work within the guidlines of the warranty."
Their "kind" offer to me after 45 days in the shop: $600 in dealership shop credit towards FUTURE repairs. Nice offer, but try again. At 51 miles — one way — to my dealership, I have added well over one thousand miles on the vehicle for service visits alone. Not to mention the cost of gas.
My background? Unfortunately, it is not as simple a problem as a failed air conditioner that triggered a buyback, but it is a conglomerate of seemingly related and unrelated problems. The following is hardly the start of my service troubles, but rather a recent sampling of what I am dealing with and what VW is wasting their money on. I still have a few additional weeks lurking in the records for past failures and visits.
*July 22, 2005:* While preparing for the upcoming Colorado Touareg 4x4 Rally that started on Sunday the 24th, I was testing all off-road equipment for proper function. I noticed that my rear differential lock was not engaging. While we were driving down to pick up the V6 TDI, the dealer said he'd be happy to stick a tech on my vehicle and replace the rear stepper motor. When that didn't fix it, I ended up leaving the Touareg there overnight on a Friday, with no vehicle available to pick up our Airstream trailer that I had left for service at the Airstream dealer. The VW tech had NO idea what was wrong with the Touareg. I was able to pick it up late Saturday afternoon, but the problem persisted. Everything appeared to be working, except the rear differential. I barely made it back to the Airstream dealership before they closed for the weekend!
*August 2, 2005*: We returned from the rally. The rear diff still didn't work. I dropped the vehicle off at my dealership, at the same time as we returned the stunning V6 TDI back to VW. *14 days later*, I picked up the vehicle. A bad (and previously unknown, as it was not listed on any wiring diagram for the vehicle) slave controller for the differential system was replaced. The dealership and VW continued to bounce back and forth on the actual diagnosis of the problem causing significant delay in repair.
*August 20, 2005*: While WAY back in the woods on a caming trip, I discover that the vehicle would NOT shift out of LOW RANGE. It had also locked the center diff, despite not being selected on the transfer case dial. After much experimentation, I found a way to get it to shift back to HIGH RANGE — a process that involves selecting HIGH RANGE on the dial; turning off the car; waiting about 45 seconds or so for the selector lights to go out (yes, even with the key out); and then restarting the vehicle. Then and only then do I get the message "Shift to Idling" to allow the transfer case to switch back. I don't switch it back into LOW RANGE again, except to back our trailer up the driveway. Following the above precedure, I can get it to switch back everytime.
*August 26, 2005*: We are towing the Airstream up to a planned group campout in the nearby mountains. Upon pulling into a gas station, I get a new message on the MFI in big persistant red letters:
BRAKE FAULT STOP VEHICLE, and the BRAKE light and ABS lights are also flashing. Not knowing what to do, I fill up with gas and decide to investigate later. Upon restart, the message is gone. No noticable handling and braking problem with a couple of tests in the parking lot. We continue on.
*August 28, 2005*: As often occurs on cold mornings, I start the Touareg, only to be faced with a FAULT RUNNING GEAR WORKSHOP message on the MFI. After getting this message, the air suspension goes into some kind of safety mode, making hook up of the trailer impossible, because the ball is now sitting too low, and I can't get the car high enough. A quick restart of the vehicle clears the MFI message and the air suspension works like it should.
As we are starting to tow up a steep mountain pass, we get another BRAKE FAULT STOP VEHICLE error. It takes us about a mile at a much reduced speed — 35mph in a 55 zone — to find an area that has a pull off large enough to fit the trailer. I get out and throughly inspect the brakes. There is no loss of brake fluid, no hot brakes, no hanging wires. Nothing out of the ordinary. I restared the vehicle and the fault cleared. I put it back in gear, only to be met with another BRAKE FAULT STOP VEHICLE message. Another restart of the vehicle cleared the message. We are far from being in cell phone range, so we decide to continue on to our intermediate destination - Breckenridge. We have no problems on the way and VW "Customer Care" is not open on the weekends.
The next morning, August 29th, we left our trailer in Breckenridge and returned to Denver on I-70 with dogs and gear. Near home, we enter a twisty set of corners. The vehicle starts sliding around in the lane. Thinking I have or was close to loosing a tire (no TPMS warning), I don't apply the brakes but instead let off the gas, and start looking for a place to pull over. The next immediate turn is still met with a pulling and binding feeling. We are still sliding around, but I'm sensing that it is not a tire problem, as there is no tire noise or pulling when we are in a straight line. A short time later, we get our favorite BRAKE FAULT STOP VEHICLE error. I pull over, look at all the the tires and see they are fine and full of air. We drive it home, not wanting to wait the hours that would be required for roadside assistance. A quick scan with the VAG-COM pulls up these faults:
Address 32: Differential Locks
Controller: 0AC 927 771 C
Component: SG-Quersperre 5020
Coding: 0000000
Shop #: WSC 00000
3 Faults Found:
02062 - Differential Lock
003 - Mechanical Failure
02412 - Differential Lock Rear
003 - Mechanical Failure - Intermittent
16353 - Control Module
014 - Defective - Intermittent
*I now have a pretty good idea what caused the pulling. One of the differentials must have fully engaged at HIGHWAY SPEED while I was in the turn. Fortunately, we weren't towing as I'm positive it would have resulted in a BAD accident after jack-knifing a swaying trailer.*
I was not able to get the vehicle into the shop for a few days due to family involvement with then Hurricane Katrina as our attention was required elsewhere. I did take the vehicle out once after that experience, only to be have the same BRAKE FAULT reappear . I parked the car, scared to drive it anymore.
*September 6, 2005*: I wanted to have the car towed into my dealership, but after a discussion with my service manager, I discovered that VW will only tow to the nearest dealer. Wanting to work with the dealership that is familiar with my drivetrain problems, and with a dealership to genuinely wants to work with me, I opted to carefully drive it over myself. It was thankfully without incident or displayed errors.
I called VW "Customer Care" a few days later, told them of my harrowing experience, and formally requested a buyback.
*September 27, 2005*: I picked up my Touareg. The problem was traced to another bad differential module, as well as complications from the transfer case module. The center diff motor was also delaying repairs to the vehicle as it was on national back order. I drove it home. In the meantime, my initial buyback request had been turned down. *VW is being billed about $5400 in parts and labor from the dealership.*
*September 29, 2005*: I take the Touareg into town to run errands. On the way there, I notice that the turn signals indicators are not being displayed along with the high beam indicator. The voltage gauge reads zero. I boogie on home, expecting the car to die on the way. It doesn't, nor does it shed electrical load. A handheld multimeter shows that I am getting 14.1 volts on the terminals under the hood and at the lighter outlet. I drive another 51 miles back to the dealer to show them the symptoms. I have had this problem in the past, only to be rebuffed by another dealership with a "could not reproduce" writeup. The instrument cluster failed and needed to be replaced. Five days and about $1200 later billed to VW, and I have a new cluster. On my way out of the dealer's lot, I get another FAULT RUNNING GEAR WORKSHOP error. The service manager is amazed and upset when I walk back in thirty seconds after leaving. We get a scan of the elusive fault on their VAS-5052. Finally some documented evidence for the file. Being that I had been without my Touareg for almost four weeks prior, I declined to leave the car longer, opting for another visit. I called VW "Customer Care" again, requesting another buyback, given the new information and problems.
The next morning, I once again get the FAULT RUNNING GEAR WORKSHOP error. I make my next service appointment and continue to get the error on subsequent mornings.
*October 17, 2005*: Yet another trip to Boulder. Finally, a code to get the air suspension system diagnosed. I called VW "Customer Care" to inform them of the repeated problem, and reiterate my buyback request, I am offered $600 in future dealer cash toward my next service appointment. I decline.
*October 20, 2005*: The dealership can't find the fault as it has apparently cleared itself from the time I captured it with my VAG-COM to the time the Touareg finally makes it into the service bay for scanning. The tech also finds out from VW that they can't open a repair order for the fault unless it is scanned at the time the vehicle is presented for repairs — therefore VW won't pay for the work. While I don't necessarily blame the dealer for not wanting to invest lots of time on something they won't get paid for, I talked with the service manager to try to get this appealed with our local regional service reps, Bill Manson and Mark Orth. I also leave messages with their boss, regional manager Craig Ducksworth, whom I had met while picking up the V6 TDI. Not a single call has been returned to date.
As it turns out, Mark Orth was out of state looking at Jay's (Xrayo) exhaust in the cabin problems and was not available. To the best of my knowledge, he never bothered to get back in touch with my service manager.
*October 25, 2005*: My service manager is on vacation. I was told by my service rep that the problem was fixed and to bring back their loaner. When I asked him what work was performed, I was told that the battery was replaced and the problem has not come back. Supposedly, the GFF (guided fault finding) said that there was a dead cell in the battery and it was reading at about 10 volts. To the best of my knowledge, I don't believe that the car will even start at 10 volts. I have been monitoring my battery closely over the past few months and I have never seen it below 12.7 volts and it charges at 14.1. I talk with the service tech and finally with the head of service and am told the same information with varying degrees of apology. 51 miles later, I return the loaner back to the dealership. It is my understanding that regional service reps Bill Manson and Mark Orth STILL have never tried to contact anyone regarding our work authorization override.
*October 31, 2005*: Lo and behold, while running into town, my FAULT RUNNING GEAR WORKSHOP returns. I scan it with the VAG-COM to confirm. In the meantime, I call a tow truck through roadside assistance to come pick the Touareg up. I have it towed to Osborn VW, the only place that VW will pay to tow it. The next morning, they are finally able to scan it and the code was read and recorded. I was told by the service writer that the compressor needed to be replaced, but techline was requiring two scans of this code before they would authorize replacement. I faxed them my copy of the prior fault scan from Gebhardt. This morning, November 2nd, I was told that the compressor was on national backorder and would be so for an undetermined amount of time.
I called VW "Customer Care" once again requesting a buyback. When asked if I was offered a rental, I told them that VW's level of rental (Jetta, Yugo, whatever) was not adequate for my two requirements: it must have four wheel drive due to where I live in the mountains and the increasing snowfall and it must be able to tow my large trailer, something few rental companies will allow you to do.
After all of this time, I have been insulted and blatantly ignored by VW, left without an adequate means of transportation, spent countless hours driving the 50 plus miles to the dealership (at 3 hours round trip) that I could have been working with clients, spent hundreds in gasoline to get it to the dealership, wasted insurance money on a vehicle that has not been in service, and have lost the last two good camping and off-roading months of the season. I am now seriously considering selling my new Airstream as I have nothing to tow it with, making it useless to me. Our original plan was to trailer it down to New Orleans for our family Thanksgiving gathering, but I seriously doubt that I will have a working and dependable vehicle in the next two weeks before we are supposed to leave.
Volkwagen — you are in the process of losing a long time customer and an enthusiast. What does owning three VW's get you? Nothing. As a result of this experience, we are selling our Jetta TDI. It's warranty runs out at the end of the month and we are scared to death about what is going to happen with the vehicle. We have replaced it with a Volvo instead of a Passat wagon.
How about all of the free press we have given you demonstrating the off-roading ability to the world with the Touareg 4x4 rallies that I have put together for *YOUR enthusiasts*? What about all of the free press and praise that we have given you on the V6 TDI from this year's rally??? Apparently, that's not worth anything either.
I would sell this Touareg if it weren't for two facts: I'd loose my shirt on any trade or sale, and no sane person would buy it based on an incredibly lengthy and serious service history that this vehicle has accrued. Yet, you are getting ready to spend close to $10,000 in parts and labor on it for repairs in the last 90 days alone. I don't think that this will stop the hemorrhaging that has begun on this vehicle.
Get your act together, Volkswagen. Get me into a new vehicle or get me my money back. We have gone from being an all VW family and hoping our future vehicles would be VW as well to never wanting to get behind the wheel of another new VW, EVER. Adrian Hallmark, good luck, you are going to have your hands full if you expect to turn this company and its' poor reputation and reliability record around


_Modified by aircooled at 10:02 PM 11-2-2005_


----------



## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

Happy 2600 to me!


----------



## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

WOW!!!







You really know how to make a thread milestone count!!!


----------



## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (TREGinginCO)*

You know it!
I didn't emphasize it enough in the above post, but I want to clarfy that Gebhardt VW and its' employees have been very helpful and understanding throughout this process. IMHO, it is VW and it's representatives that have dropped the ball.


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_Happy 2600 to me!

Mere amateur!















Sorry for your troubles though.


----------



## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

Sorry for your troubles too but I think the main issues you are facing may well have to do with the size of tires you have on.
255/60 stock tires have 40mm (1.6 in) less overall height than the 265/65 tires you are using.
You are putting a lot of extra strain on the drive line components as it is, not to mention the towing.
You are also altering the overall height of the vehicle, possibly triggering false signals from the air suspension sensors to the controllers and the g sensor of the 4motion controller at different speeds.
The tires may look great but the Treg is not a simple vehicle and is better kept within manufacturer's specs at all times.
My 0.02 euro....


----------



## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (jinxegg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jinxegg* »_Sorry for your troubles too but I think the main issues you are facing may well have to do with the size of tires you have on.
255/60 stock tires have 40mm (1.6 in) less overall height than the 265/65 tires you are using.
You are putting a lot of extra strain on the drive line components as it is, not to mention the towing.
You are also altering the overall height of the vehicle, possibly triggering false signals from the air suspension sensors to the controllers and the g sensor of the 4motion controller at different speeds.
The tires may look great but the Treg is not a simple vehicle and is better kept within manufacturer's specs at all times.
My 0.02 euro....










Interesting theory jinxegg, but it doesn't sound plausible to me. One would think that VW would have jumped all over the non-OEM size tires if they had any evidence that this would trigger such serious problems as aircooled had seen. Also, IIRC, the Dakar Support Touaregs run non-OEM size tires, and they seem to have held up pretty well in extreme conditions.
Good luck getting a resolution aircooled. A crying shame that this crap has to happen to a long time VW owner - particularly someone who actually uses all of the sophisticated features of the Touareg as they were designed and advertised to be used.


----------



## mdjak (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (4x4s)*

Air, that just plain sucks. I too had that brake fault warning a long time ago. Came twice and left just as mysteriously, never to return (sound of knocking on wood.)
There's no doubt it's time to hire a lemon law lawyer. The saddest part is that this is an all too common occurence with VW. Other than when the Egg came out, I was never a VW enthusiast. I do love my Egg, the looks, the performance, etc., but would probably never buy another one.
As far as the kudos you give to your dealer in spite of all the troubles, I would have to take the credit you give them and halve it, if not take all of it away.
They should be willing to help you whether VW will reimburse them or not.


----------



## gatortreg (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (4x4s)*

"Interesting theory jinxegg, but it doesn't sound plausible to me. One would think that VW would have jumped all over the non-OEM size tires if they had any evidence that this would trigger such serious problems as aircooled had seen. Also, IIRC, the Dakar Support Touaregs run non-OEM size tires, and they seem to have held up pretty well in extreme conditions."
Aircooled, what you have gone through is absurd. Cosidering how much you have done to promote VW they should be bending over backwards to please you! Translation ----> HORRIBLE customer service form VWOA







. However, jinxegg's theory is plausable. Remember, there is nothing really "stock" about Dakar and maybe the dealer never put 2 + 2 together with the tire size. Just my .02c.


----------



## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (gatortreg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gatortreg* »_... However, jinxegg's theory is plausable. Remember, there is nothing really "stock" about Dakar and maybe the dealer never put 2 + 2 together with the tire size. Just my .02c. 


The Dakar Race Touareg is not stock, but I was referring to the support Touaregs. They are pretty much stock mechanically.


----------



## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (gatortreg)*

Sorry, I don't believe the tires theory for an instant. I have had the problems or the symptoms of the problems BEFORE changing tires. Also to note, while controllers and stepper motors were replaced, the differentials themselves have not.


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

After such a long time of little or no problems, I would suspect that all of these issues are being caused by a single electrical fault such as a ground that has come loose or corroded enough to cause an issue. You are experiencing faults in too many different systems for it to be the individual systems themselves. I suspect the GFF's instruction of replacement of the battery is missing the real issue too but it is close.
Just my opinion. I'm not a tech.


----------



## matthewsjl (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (4x4s)*

If all four wheels/tires are the same, there should be no problem apart from the speedo mis-reading. Diffs are meant to be there to compensate for small changes in rolling radius and also the difference in distance travelled during a turn.
Diffs are on all cars - it's just a fact that on the Touareg, the diffs are more complicated due to the locking functions for off-roading.
Aircooled: you have my sympathy - great car but complex. When it does go wrong it tends to be more complicated than normal.
John.


_Modified by matthewsjl at 10:48 AM 11-3-2005_


----------



## gatortreg (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (4x4s)*

4x4,
Valid point. However, putting on different tire sizes on dirt is less strain than different than different tire sizes on pavement. 

Tire manufactures(and car manufactures) have specifications on point about putting differnt size tires on. Pls dont take my post wrong. I think it absolutely s*%#s that aircooled has been treated this way and that is really the focus of my original post and this thread.


----------



## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (gatortreg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gatortreg* »_4x4,
...
Pls dont take my post wrong. I think it absolutely s*%#s that aircooled has been treated this way and that is really the focus of my original post and this thread.

Agreed. Just discussing the theory proposed, I did not intend to take this off topic.


----------



## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (4x4s)*

If the problems with Chris' TOUAREG had developed after the tires... I'd say that would be possible.
But, these are issues he's been dealing with LOOOOOONG before he replaced the tires. And remember, he had to change those tires because of a faulty stepper motor (that VW failed to acknowledge at the time) and a crappy alignment from the factory.
The change of tire size in this case is sooooo minimal that if the vehicle can't handle this adjustment --- there's a design flaw in the TOUAREG.
Plus, if this were really a problem with tires --- then there would be hundreds if not thousands of TOUAREGs that would/will be failing!


----------



## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (TREGinginCO)*

I'm having difficulty understanding why VWOA hasn't agreed to a buyback on your vehicle, when I've read of others who receoved that offer after far less trouble. You've done a lot of "PR" work for the Treg. Time for a little in return, IMHO.


----------



## gatortreg (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (TREGinginCO)*

"The change of tire size in this case is sooooo minimal that if the vehicle can't handle this adjustment --- there's a design flaw in the TOUAREG"

I would not consider 255/55/18 to 255/60/18 to sooooo minimal. Call your local tire store and ask them if that is an acceptable percentage differance. I am NOT a car/tire tech so I called someone who "is". My tire distributor said it was not. If there are any car techs in this forum pls give us your opinion. I will try to do some research on this and post later. Again, whatever the exact cause of aircooled problems should have been diagnosed quicker and better than it was. VWOA should have been more WAY more responsive to solving his problem! I do feel bad for all of aircooled aggrevations and hope that VWOA reads these threads and realizes that bad press spreads faster than good.


----------



## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (jmj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmj* »_I'm having difficulty understanding why VWOA hasn't agreed to a buyback on your vehicle, when I've read of others who receoved that offer after far less trouble. You've done a lot of "PR" work for the Treg. Time for a little in return, IMHO.

Agreed.
I'm saddened to hear about how you're being treated. Pitiful.


----------



## charlier (Mar 9, 2001)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (BRM10984)*

Sorry to hear about your Touareg's problems.
Does your Touareg's problem(s) come under the guidelines for your state's Lemon Law?
If so, is there a reason why you have not envoked the Lemon Law and FORCED VWoA to take back your Touareg?
Maybe it is time to get in touch with the biggest TV station in your area and talk to their consumer reporter. Maybe a nice TV segment on how VWoA is handling your situation will do some good. Then video tape the segment and send a copies to the new head of VWoA and all the regional VWoA people you have been dealing with.
BTW, is anyone else here amazed that going on THREE YEARS after introduction there are still parts on "National Back Order" for the Touareg?
One would think that by now VWoA parts managers would have figured out how to keep parts in stock in the VWoA parts depots for the Touareg.


----------



## kevinCO (Sep 20, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

Aircooled,
Really sorry to hear this!
Best wishes to you,
Stop the madness, and let you keep on posting much more than "Happy 2600".(Good news, not the bad ones anymore!)


----------



## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (kevinCO)*

Thanks for the kind words everyone. I think that most here know me not as a whiner, but as a contributer. I have endured a lot of grief, incurred a significant monetary loss in gas, insurance, and loss of billable hours with my clients. I have spent in excess of 1000 miles simply traveling back and forth to the dealership for warranty issues. I have a trailer that continues to sit in my driveway and depreciate, with nothing to tow it with.
Rest assured that I am working on a legal solution to these problems. I easily fall within the guidelines of the federal Magnuson-Moss act. I sent this open letter in an attempt to bring VW to their collective senses on a problem that is quickly spiraling out of control.
BTW, a copy of this letter has been forward to the following people:
Dr. Wolfgang Bernhard, Chief Executive - Volkswagen Brand, Volkswagen AG
Adrian Hallmark, Executive Vice President, Volkswagen of America
Becky Staples, Buy Back Coordinator, Volkswagen of America
Stephan Krebsfanger, Product Manager, Volkswagen of America
Mark Clemens, Service Manager, Gebhardt VW


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

Sorry about your situation. You must be very painstaking to endure such a vehicle.
Your experience is further evidence of the fact that the Touareg is the least reliable sold in America in 2005 according to Consumer Reports.
You may want to read "Mechanic’s Tale: VW, Heal Thyself - A Cautionary Tale" for some background on VW development.


----------



## flyboy104g (May 3, 2005)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

This is what I posted in reply to Aircooled's Sorry Tale on Club Touareg (it hasn't sofort received even a comment there):
I do not understand companies who allow a situation as you have described to continue. Do they not realize that 'word of mouth' is the best (or worst) publicity they can get! 
When I was working for the 'three pointed star' in Europe - which is now some years ago and I am sure things have changed - we would get the highest level technicians from the factory envolved in serious cases. The problem was always resolved to everyone's satisfaction and the owner would speak glowingly of what had been done by the factory. 
I thought that even in America Phaeton and Touareg Dealers had to be connected via Satellite link to the Factory in Germany for direct diagnosis of serious matters. I read that somewhere. Did I mis understand it? 
Incidentally, I have only received one written Survey from VWoA regarding my delivery experience. After three months' ownership I would have thought they might be interested in my ownership experience. America companies seem to have inundated me with surveys. 
I have difficulty believing a German Company such as VWoA doesn't care but after reading your report I am beginning to wonder. 
They have already lost a Passat sale to Volvo. It seems that they are about to lose another sale – in the current climate I would have thought every single sale should be important. Does nobody at the top ever ask questions? Do they really believe all is well ‘in the trenches?’ 
As a German, I like to buy products from German Companies because I believe they are the best. I even have a German TV (Loewe Planus) – they are no longer represented in America so when it came to buying a Plasma, I had to buy Korean! I wonder how Kia and Hyundai are doing on the customer satisfaction scale? 
I am very sorry that you have had to go through such an ordeal. I hope VWoA wakes up before it is too late. 
After all this, I do love my Touareg and I just hope it will serve me well for many years to come.


----------



## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (flyboy104g)*

Today's a new day... who knows what could happen. Gotta stay optimistic!!


----------



## ufda (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (TREGinginCO)*

Just received a call from Osburn in Denver, since I told them that my car has been in far too many times. They actually want to do something to maybe initiate a replacement. Well will see what they are willing to do. Will keep you all posted.


----------



## Rickanns (Oct 25, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

Gee, Chris, even though we have talked about your problems, I did not realize the scope of your situation. While your current tow is much heavier than my bass boat, I have probably towed much more than you over the time that we have had these vehicles. I have also run the Revos as long as you have. I am also in low range as much as you although not in the mountains as much. Outside of the rear drive shaft and main carrier bearing the first week of October, I have not experienced the amount of problems that you have. 
Shame, shame on VWOA for dragging their collective feet in correcting these problems. I would also add that Gebhardt is an outstanding dealership evidenced by their handling of my problems when we were vacationing up there in October.
I hope you get a speedy and satisfying solution. Besides, we still have to do Moab and there are lots of trails around Ouray that we have not done (Poughkeepsie Gulch, you chicken







). Please keep me in the loop.
Rick


----------



## FrescoGLX (Feb 6, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

Don't waste your time with customer care. they can't do a lemon buyback. 
Write a letter stating all of the above to 
VW of America
Mediation/Arbitration Department
3800 West Hamlin Road
Rochester Hills, MI 48309
these are the only folks that can get you a replacement/buyback. 
It also helps if your dealer can speed up the process. I wrote the letter and the owner of my dealer also taked to the area rep for me and all of a sudden I had an offer from vw. 
Good Luck.


----------



## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (FrescoGLX)*

Fresco, been there, done that. All of that.
Thanks to my letter, I have an open dialog with the mothership. I got someone's attention.







I'll keep everyone posted as I find out more.
PS - Touareg is still in the shop waiting for the air compressor to show up. Each day is just another nail in the coffin.


----------



## chicago_gal_950 (Apr 22, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

We are all pulling for you aircooled.


----------



## I8ABUG (Aug 22, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

Hey Chris. Sorry to hear about your Dilemma.








I knew you had a few issues, but never ever thought they were that serious. As for as your tire size goes, I don't see how that could be a problem. Eric's tires (285-55/18) are over-sized too, and to my knowledge he does not have any major issues.
Keep your head up, and hopefully VW pulls their head out and remedies the situation to your satisfaction.


----------



## RvDUB (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

Your still dealing with this thing WOW! You can do it Nickey ! Hey if we need to stage a stick at the dealership I'm in !


----------



## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (RvDUB)*

I can't believe this situation isn't done yet... you'd think the U.S. Congress had to sign off on this!!!!


----------



## vweos (Nov 9, 2005)

I had one here in VA with similar problem with a/c and charging-intermittent. Check the fuse/junction bax in left of plenum chamber. There is one connecter there that will make the compresser play dead. Not sure if yours has same problem as mine, but only takes a few in to check box out.


----------



## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

I did hear back from VWoA. They do want to buyback my vehicle, but their offer still leaves a bit to be desired. I don't want to talk about specifics now, but they can definitely do better.


----------



## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

*Re: (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_I did hear back from VWoA. They do want to buyback my vehicle, but their offer still leaves a bit to be desired. I don't want to talk about specifics now, but they can definitely do better.

It's a start, I suppose.


----------



## yugodutch (Aug 9, 2004)

Hang tough! It is almost over we all hope!


----------



## rinkerw (Mar 7, 2002)

*Re: (yugodutch)*

Funny I should come upon this thread....
As of today, my Touareg has been in the shop 61 days for the unloved "Fault: Running Gear Workshop" error. I have been thru many of the same situations as you aircooled...and I am not getting desirable results either (trade-in allowance).
The funny thing about it is...after all they have replaced to TRY to fix it, they are back to replacing the comressor, AGAIN. It was just replaced about a month ago, and here they go again!


----------



## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (rinkerw)*

Rinkerw, you should be able to sue under the federal warranty, if this is what you choose to do. I'm sorry to hear that you are having the same kinds of problems. My vehicle is in the shop still, so, I am also now up to about 60 days or so for recent problems. They are replacing the compressor in my vehicle, even though it was just a bad sensor. I have waited for a week for the compressor to shop up, which it has just done so this morning. Supposedly, there is a new sensor repair kit that can be ordered, speeding up repair time.
In any case, I don't think I will have new wheels in time for my trailer trip to New Orleans.


----------



## rinkerw (Mar 7, 2002)

*Re: (aircooled)*

Yeah, I have contacted a few attorneys, and they said that the Magnesson Moss Act might be something to persue.
As of this point in our vehicle, they have replaced all the sensors, all four struts, compressor (second time now), battery power cable, and who knows what else. My service guy told me that my compressor was shipped RED, so it should've been here today...but they never called me (no surprise).
Unlike you, I haven't had much luck dealing with the people where I service my Touareg. The guy has yet, in 60+ days now, to pick up the phone and dial my number. A while back, I even turned them in to the BBB.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (rinkerw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rinkerw* »_the unloved "Fault: Running Gear Workshop" error.

Wondering, does this fault coincide with the lights around the differential lock switch flashing? 
Those two symptoms together have, for me in the past, indicated a charging system problem usually solved with replacement of the cable that runs from the alternator to the battery, along with the cleaning of some grounds. 
While this may not be the case in your situation, I tend to agree with Spockcat that there is most likely an electrical problem.


----------



## nj-treg (Dec 14, 2004)

*Re: (aircooled)*

I know a lot of people won't think this is a good idea, but have you considered finding a lawyer to write a 30 day demand letter? It will cost you some $$ but for god sake, look at all the money you are spending on gas, not to mention your time.
If nothing else, you'll get the attention of someone at corporate. These poor people you call at VWOA customer care are helpless to do anything for you. I remember fighting with my dealer over a brake light switch for my GTI...it failed (for about the 10th time) in a parking lot where I was parked head on. GTI had to be DRAGGED out by a tow truck. When it got to the dealer it worked fine. I insisted they replace it under goodwill (we're talking like 85 dollars here) and they told me to beat it. I called VWOA hoping to get my 85 bucks back...VWOA told me to beat it to.
Christ..as I read this post, what the hell every posesed me to buy two more VW's after that GTI?


----------



## I8ABUG (Aug 22, 2004)

*Re: (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_I did hear back from VWoA. They do want to buyback my vehicle, but their offer still leaves a bit to be desired. I don't want to talk about specifics now, but they can definitely do better.

Excellent news Chris. Hopefully VW will come through for you.
BTW, my Touareg has been in the shop for four days (get it back tomorrow). It barely started on Monday am with yet another "Running Gear Fault Workshop" complete with flashing lights around the four wheel drive/diff lock selector on the console.







A classic sign of low voltage. I pick it up tomorrow. My dealer said a pump for the brake system was staying on, and draining the battery.







We will see if that fixes the problem.


----------



## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (I8ABUG)*

Andy, sorry to hear about your continuing problems as well. Did you ever get your AC fixed from the rally?
Update on my vehicle. The replacement air compressor did arrive and was installed earlier last week. It is MUCH noisier that the one that it replaced as it can now be clearly heard in the cabin while underway. I NEVER heard the old compressor inside while underway. Nothing else appears to be wrong right now, but I am just waiting for something else to break. I have completely lost all confidence in this vehicle, and we will not be towing to New Orleans as I had hoped, but rather will be taking the Volvo.
As for my Buyback, I am happy to hear that I have an offer, but that is all I have heard. It is taking my local representative an inordinate amount of time to get a written offer back to me. I still don't understand why they are dragging their feet on this.


----------



## lr94disco (Nov 18, 2005)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

Keep the pressure on aircooled!! I have been getting the Running Gear Workshop message now on nearly a daily basis for a month. After being in the shop 3 times, I called VOA for a buy back. They told me "Your VW is working within manufacture specification but are willing to work with the repair facility to get your issue resolved ... " I went nuts, asked to get a con call with the Service Manager, and they refused!!
I have since hired a lemon law attorney and finally got fed up with the RGF (and this constant humming from my heater) so I tried to take it to the dealer, I was refused service!!! For a Warrantee repair. they service manager told me if I hadn't gotten a lawyer, they would be happy to help me (ummm, they refuse to acknowledge there is a problem). 
I will be hosting a protest in front of the dealer next week, maybe a sales decline will get them to do the right thing. 
The sad part is that I traded my Land Rover Discovery in for the Treg, and we thought the British were the only ones who couldn't get electrical systems to work ....


----------



## I8ABUG (Aug 22, 2004)

*Re: (aircooled)*

Anything new to report Chris?


----------



## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (I8ABUG)*

Andy,
He's still going back and forth with VW on their offer. Unfortunately, VW hasn't been moving very quickly.


----------



## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

We are down in New Orleans now. We drove the Volvo down since I was scared to death to breakdown on the road, and I needed that have a dependable vehicle while I was down here for somewhat obvious reasons. I just found out that I had a call from my local rep on monday, the day that my offer was set to expire. Don't ask me why he made no attempt to try a similar message on my cell phone, which I know he has. I still never heard back from my VWoA buyback contact that I sent both an an email AND a vmail.
Guys, I just about to be done going down this road. VW has NOT demonstrated that they are wanting to do the right thing for me, and a complete lack of timely communication is killing any chances of making me happy. If I do go, it will be with a heavy heart as there is such a great Touareg community.


----------



## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

We've done it. We have stuck an acceptable deal, and I am upgrading to a V8 in the process. I'll probably be driving in it late next week or early the following week, as we were able to locate a vehicle in the state that met all of my requirements. Gebhardt will be doing the delivery.
Thank you VW for finally doing the right thing!


----------



## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

Great News.... congrats!!!! (even though I already told you this on the phone)


----------



## I8ABUG (Aug 22, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

Excellent news Chris. Congrats!


----------



## gkcmilner (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

That's very nice to hear! Hope you get one like mine that has been absolutely flawless. Merry X-mas.


----------



## LSinLV (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (aircooled)*

I had a similar instancw with my wifes 2001 Tahoe LT...I finally broke down and paid an attorney freind $250; they filed suit against GM and the dealership.
Within 10 dyas of the suit being filed the following offer was sent to the attorney by certifed mail:
-buyback the vehicle at the balance of the lease
-refund 2 months of lease payments for time in reapir
-refund $250 for legal fees
-$2,500 certificate of ANY GM product and ANY time, good with ANY offer.
it worked for me....although I never used (and never will) the $2,500 cert...


----------



## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*

Say Hi to Santa from me...








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (jinxegg)*

That's great news. I was bummed out that VW was hassling one of the folks who have been their biggest proponents on this forum. Would you mind sharing the financials of how this works? (The attorney in me *needs* to know!)


----------



## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (jmj)*

JMJ, the terms of my deal prevent me from speaking directly about the specifics, but we were able to reach a pretty good deal. I also have to compare any deal to having to sell my 2004 outright and the bath I would have had to taken on it.
To everyone else, thanks for you show of support. I'm glad that we could finally work it out, and without attorneys. I had even called one to start the process a little bit before this all stated.
If everything else works out, I will have a new Campy white w/ teak 2006 V8, Package 3 (with DVD Nav, PDC, aux input, backup camera, keyless), Winter (finally a heated steering wheel!!!!!!!!!!), Trailer hitch and roof racks.
Merry Christmas indeed! http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


----------



## Phagus (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_JMJ, the terms of my deal prevent me from speaking directly about the specifics, but we were able to reach a pretty good deal. I also have to compare any deal to having to sell my 2004 outright and the bath I would have had to taken on it.
To everyone else, thanks for you show of support. I'm glad that we could finally work it out, and without attorneys. I had even called one to start the process a little bit before this all stated.
If everything else works out, I will have a new Campy white w/ teak 2006 V8, Package 3 (with DVD Nav, PDC, aux input, backup camera, keyless), Winter (finally a heated steering wheel!!!!!!!!!!), Trailer hitch and roof racks.
Merry Christmas indeed! http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif









but where is the AIR SUSPENSION?


----------



## tbroadbent (Jan 4, 2005)

Chris, wow. I know it is still not worth the messed up last few months but at least you have a new car you can keep or sell and not take such a "bath". I really enjoyed our rally this summer and would like to enjoy more. But for myself I am one that looks the thing long term and I don't see VW as a company that I want to support. My daughter has a VW Jetta, and I have as you know a Touareg V8 which has been somewhat reliable. I just purchased a Scion XB for my other daughter who wanted a Jeta or a GTI, but since the treatment that I have received from taking my Touareg in for service, I have decided not to ever purchase a VW car again. I am in the process of selling my Touareg and looking to purchase a Landrover LR3. So I am glad to here you have a new vehicle that at least will allow you to participate in the ralley this year if you choose. I may attend the ralley this year in a LR3 and may have a hard time keeping up. Merry Xmas to all.
Terry


----------



## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (****us)*

Sorry, package three also has Air and Rear diff lock. It's completely loaded except for 4-zone and TPMS.


----------



## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (tbroadbent)*

Terry, you and your family are always welcome to join us. I'll keep my tow rope ready!


----------



## irbrenda (Oct 9, 2000)

*Re: 50+ days in the shop since July. Stop the madness!!! (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_
If everything else works out, I will have a new Campy white w/ teak 2006 V8, Package 3 (with DVD Nav, PDC, aux input, backup camera, keyless), Winter (finally a heated steering wheel!!!!!!!!!!), Trailer hitch and roof racks.
Merry Christmas indeed! http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif









And that's great news! Kinda like what I'd be looking for too. I hope I can do something similar very soon, although VW won't give me much at all and I'm tired of fighting this car...27 months of love and hate!
And so a Merry Xmas it will be for you!


----------



## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (aircooled)*

Terry,
The rally won't be the same if you're not there.... you have to attend. Besides, I'd like to see an LR3 in action!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## tbroadbent (Jan 4, 2005)

Don't worry U can count me in....I love the group and the fun we all have together.


----------



## ufda (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: (tbroadbent)*

Chris: Glad everything is being worked out for you. Thanks for the vag-com work that you and Denver Bill did during they color cruise. We in the Denver area should have a water hole someplace soon.


----------

