# standalone engine management for daily driver



## synthsis (Sep 4, 2001)

ok, so im goin to do a 1.8T in a MKII gti. awesome right? anyhow the guy who is doing the swap for me wants to run TekIII standalone. my brother and a friend who's a certifed Ford mechanic both say not to run standalone for your daily driver as they can sometimes be touchy. anyone have any sugestions or comments. all info is always appreciated
thanks


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (synthsis)*

they are wrong, stand alone is smoother than a babies arse, tec3 is liek 2400, dta is like 1 grand, SDS is 1200, EMS is 800$
tec is a bit over rated for about 90% of the people on this board ,


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (synthsis)*

Tek3 is the top notch and most expensive out there. That is my goal because trying to use the imobilizer is just not worth it to me. Additionally if you plan to go beyond stock turbo it will be much easier to go then chip tuning.
And its prefectly street drivable. Most of the cars running stand alone usualy are high power cars, so not exactly commuter cars.


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## mattstacks (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (synthsis)*

Stand alone management, if tuned properly is fine daily. Most of the troubles with stand alone management tend to be related to the fact that larger injectors are normally a part of the equation.
By tuned right I mean things like your cold sart enrichment, acc. pump TPS ect. 
I would think that your intsaller would find it easier to throw in stand alone then to change out the whole harness and guage cluster.


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## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (synthsis)*

Don't know about TEC III, but I've been running a Haltech E6K for 2 years without a hiccup.
Course, if you do a sloppy installation you might have problems, but the ECU itself is probably a pretty reliable piece.


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (J. Daniel)*

SDS!!!! it will do things no other standalone can do!


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## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Anand20v)*

i thought you could do all that with $120 megasquirt?


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Anand20v)*

I love SDS. But itws a one map type of deal and that just doesnt fly for me. But is prefect for his application.


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## mattstacks (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Anand20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Anand20v* »_SDS!!!! it will do things no other standalone can do!


























































Who said anything about SDS, why do you keep trying to start this argument when you are so clearly wrong. 
That joke of fuel system you run will keep you under 10 PSI 'till you wise up and get a real system. 
I stay out of everything PSC as to not get back into this discussion with someone so adamantly stuck on a cheap ass fuel system why don't you do the same in regards to stand alone. 
I see you stick in your smart ass little comments about SDS daily, none of us are talking about the PSC, once we realized that you were not taking constructive criticism we dropped it.
Do you even understand the importance of timing and fuel in regards to power?
Or will any old chip and a bunch of fuel suffice. i hope so for your sake.
Drop it kid, noone cares if you approve of SDS.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (mattstacks)*

I try to stay out of these stupid arguements,but the guy that thinks TEC is the "best most expensive" stuff out there could use some serious schooling,I don't have the desire to bother.The clown that thinks SDS can do things others can't is just as wrong,and the clown that thinks SDS is limited to 10psi is even more wrong than the 1st two.
Oh well,back to your cyber tuning........


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (synthsis)*

To answer the 1st guys post,yes you *can* and it can run as well or better than OEM BUT it's a long road and takes a LOT of tuning,you can have someone tune most of it for you for a decent fee,but you need to drive the car in every possible air temp,coolant temp,tps and map combo for it to be perfect.It's pretty unrealistic to think that you can get it to where you expect it and not know much about the ins and outs of tuning.It's not as easy as cyber tuners make it out to be,nor is it over complicated once you learn what's going on during the normal running conditions of a motor.
hth


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Hardcore VW)*

hehehe. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
every system has a best application for specific users. At least his question was answered in this mess.


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## mattstacks (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_I try to stay out of these stupid arguements,but the guy that thinks TEC is the "best most expensive" stuff out there could use some serious schooling,I don't have the desire to bother.The clown that thinks SDS can do things others can't is  just as wrong,and the clown that thinks SDS is limited to 10psi is even more wrong than the 1st two.
Oh well,back to your cyber tuning........

Dont mean to argue with you either, i really dont but I was syaing that the PSC (split second) unit would limit someone to less then 10 PSI as he was being sarcastic about the SDS comment, which came from discussions long ago regarding the split second unit, why Anand needs to keep taking stabs at SDS users is beyond me but thats the case.
My cyber tuning with my SDS system as allowed me to run my vr6 T to 15 PSI with all the proper A/F's . 
But thanks for calling me a clown with out reading what i typed which was pretty much to the point that you missed.


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (mattstacks)*

its all about the tuner mostly, i mean lugnuts could make a tec 2 work better than i could an autronic, all are fuel and ignition, then you have your bells and whistle like wastegate control, launch control etc


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (D Wiz)*

I can blow more motors on cis than you can on Tec as well


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## 2.OhhhGTI (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (killa)*

I am running with tec-3. I did not install or tune it, but I drive it daily! Once set up correctly, it runs great. At this point, I am running 1.2 bar with 82 lb. injectors with no problems. Other things in the mix are a short runner intake with a 75mm t-body that make things a bit more difficult to tune. I'll turn up the boost this winter if I get bored to 1.5 bar and maybe beyond...we'll see if the head gasket can take it.


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## synthsis (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (2.OhhhGTI)*

cool, thanks for all the info guys, i knew it was gonna get ulgy there but i needed opinions.


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (synthsis)*

i think that on this topic i will step in and give you my experience with standalone. Ive been runnin g it on my car for over a year now, and in the past year or so ive tuned it once, i have not been back to the dyno to tune it since it first ran. I have also been across the country twice, once in the winter and once in the summer, the car has taken me skiing in the winter and also surfing int he summer. So it has been in all types of weather and temps on the original map. Oh yeah this is on my stock aba motor making about 270 to the wheels and can be seen running mid 12s on a bad run.
Todd


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## Beaver Hunter (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (turbodub)*

ANAND,I NEVER SAID "It can do things others can't do",I said SDS is great for someone that wnats to TUNE AND INSTALL HIS OWN SYSTEM.If you read you will see that 80=% of guys with DTA,Tec,Autronic,Motec,EMS,etc. "had it installed by SOMEONE",and "tuned by SOMEONE",not themselves.If you are a novice,bottom line SDS is the EASIEST to tune and install for computer illiterate people like myself and others.Have you gotten out of the 14's with your VR turbo yet?I have,with a 8V 4 banger,and NO dyno time(my car is too low for the dyno)so maybe you should try the SDS.I will be building a VR turbo here soon with SDS and we can compare notes,and track times














You guys are having decent results with the PSC-1,I give you that,but none of you guys are busting 12's or even 13's for that matter,so why all the SDS sarchasm?










_Modified by Beaver Hunter at 5:09 AM 9-13-2003_


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (mattstacks)*

>>he was being sarcastic about the SDS comment<<
that was pointed out to me on the side,sorry I missed it........you know how it can be sometimes.......


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## purple-pill (Feb 2, 2003)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (2.OhhhGTI)*

that 3layer metal head gasket can take over 30lbs of boost dont be shy and turn it up...........


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## synthsis (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (purple-pill)*

MOTEC....any comments?


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## Sleepy Mk1 (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (synthsis)*

Just my 2 cents on standalone for a daily driver. I've been runnign SDS for three years. You can get a basic map that will behave alomost like stock in no time. The finer points however do take a lot of time. Cold starts and part throttle take a lot of messing around and you have to have a pretty good grasp of what the engine is doing and what it needs. That kind of stuff is also not something you can pay somebody to do, it takes five or ten minutes every time you drive the car to get it just right.


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## Beaver Hunter (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Sleepy Mk1)*

Sleepy Mk1-WERD!


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Beaver Hunter)*

MicroTech could work also and not so much $$$$$ on it


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## Beaver Hunter (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Vento FI)*

Vento FI,you have been running Microtech right?Tell us how many miles and some performance figures/1/4 mile times and what size injectors you are running and how much boost Microtech can handle.How many VW's on this site run it,and are you guys making good ET/power? No sarchasm,serious question,I think it is cool for other alternatives,but is it AS EASY to install/tune as SDS for the novice user ?I saw the controller,no laptop,right?But I thought once yo add up everything for Microtech it is $1300.00 with controller,etc.? UPDATE:I just read your posts in Microtech thread and it says you hav'nt installed it yet.I hope it works for you,and can be as reliable and make good power for you.Give us some #'s when you have it going. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif










_Modified by Beaver Hunter at 2:05 AM 9-15-2003_


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Beaver Hunter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beaver Hunter* »_Vento FI,you have been running Microtech right?Tell us how many miles and some performance figures/1/4 mile times and what size injectors you are running and how much boost Microtech can handle.How many VW's on this site run it,and are you guys making good ET/power? No sarchasm,serious question,I think it is cool for other alternatives,but is it AS EASY to install/tune as SDS for the novice user ?I saw the controller,no laptop,right?But I thought once yo add up everything for Microtech it is $1300.00 with controller,etc.? UPDATE:I just read your posts in Microtech thread and it says you hav'nt installed it yet.I hope it works for you,and can be as reliable and make good power for you.Give us some #'s when you have it going. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









_Modified by Beaver Hunter at 2:05 AM 9-15-2003_

No, I have not install it yet, but I do know about 15 different users here in PR were a 2.0L VW with turbo, W/A cooler, and NOS was making around 800 whp and ET 4.84 1/8 mile and 7.42 1/4 mile.
MicroTech has been pretty popular around here in PR and lots of people use then in Rotary, etc.
Yes is easy to install, just use the factory sensors (If you have them already) if not you can use generic sensor (GM Type) and they are cheap and easy to find.
You can have both Controller and Laptop what ever suit your thirst. All depends on the type of setup that you want and the model. IF you have a 4 banger then use the LT-8 or LTX-8 that goes around $870.00 and for bigger engines LT-12 up 12 cylinders is $999.00 if you want the handset is about $130.00 and $360.00 for the dash unit. This unit is for more professional drag racer and SCCA application (Its big and it does same thing as the Handset) just for more comfortable reach in the car an it works as alert center since it has like 5 lights for shifting and so forth.
Well form the Factory all MicroTech have a 20 psi map integrated, but if you want more you can change that for a 30 psi map ($120.00) sensor or more if it is necessary.
I'm going to be running 72lb low impendance injectors. As for how many cars here in VWVortex are running with MicroTech? I really don't know. But one thing is that it is a very good product and it works and is cheaper that other systems in the market. 
My experience for the people than I know, and I have seen lots of people here running SDS, Halteck E6K, Electromotive, Tec III, the list is endless, but I have seen MicroTech and is the most popular one and the most that people know how to set properly, it is not a science to do so and for the $$ that it cost I'm up for it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Vento FI)*

Is that guy's name Ivan and is the car a blue rabbit?


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (killa)*

Yes his name is Ivan and the blue rabbit is no longer with him, this is a New Corrado and is a white one...
BTW Ivan is my neighbor two blocks down my house and he is the one that is goig to setup my MicroTech





























Do you know him by any chance?????


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## Beaver Hunter (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Vento FI)*

That Microtech sounds like good stuff,I like the looks of the system,and you are saying that you can use a controller AND laptop?That is very cool.Keep us posted and tell us how it turns out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I am curious to see if this turns out to be a popular stand alone unit.


_Modified by Beaver Hunter at 10:57 AM 9-15-2003_


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Vento FI)*

>>BTW Ivan is my neighbor two blocks down my house and he is the one that is goig to setup my MicroTech 
Do you know him by any chance?????
<<
Your very lucky.I've known OF Ivan since his 2.016vT Datsun........one of my all time favorite cars....man could that car get the front end up.....


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Hardcore VW)*

Thanks, That's so true, every car that he has runs like a beast, the thing is that he gets good HP out of a small light weight engine like a 2.0l 16v
I will let you guys know how my project will go and if any of you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask it, that's why we are here for.....


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Beaver Hunter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beaver Hunter* »_That Microtech sounds like good stuff,I like the looks of the system,and you are saying that you can use a controller AND laptop?That is very cool.Keep us posted and tell us how it turns out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I am curious to see if this turns out to be a popular stand alone unit.

_Modified by Beaver Hunter at 10:57 AM 9-15-2003_

Yes, you can use Laptop or Controller or you can use both if you like, that's up to you. You can even use if you want Wideband O2 Sensor, but that is extra $$$ (for the O2 only) the ECU comes already configure for Wideband...


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## WMTJ (Jan 26, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Vento FI)*

I like the Tec3. I'm tuning it (with some long distance help from Jefnes3) and have found the autotune feature an excellent tool. There will be wide-band O2 and 2wire IAC available by the end of this month. The customer support over at Electromotive has been very helpful as well.
From what I read, Autronic also excellent systems. It seems a little more robust than electromotive is terms of add-ons. Although, I believe the Tec3 have more calculations for it's fuel map than the Autronic. I'm not talking about the size of the tables per say, but the interpoliation between the cells. If I'm not mistaken Electromotive uses a 256point intepoliation between the cells. When fine tuned you can get an absolute perfect fuel map.
Just my thoughts on the subject.


_Modified by WMTJ at 2:06 PM 9-16-2003_


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## trelms (Apr 22, 2000)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (WMTJ)*

yes standalone can be used for daily driving, in fact here is my map for my 1.8t
the dolphins represent when boost kicks in:


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## Slynus (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (trelms)*

Hehehe


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (WMTJ)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Its all good.....


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (synthsis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *synthsis* »_MOTEC....any comments?

Excellent system... can use all your stock sensors and the stock
coil packs.
Run closed loop o2 feed back with a narrowband sensor or a wideband
sensor, anytime/anywhere you choose.
Lots of other stuff that most DIY guys won't use...
A little 'pricey'.... getting close to the cost of the 'project car' purchase price.
Jeffrey Atwood


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Jefnes3)*

Hey Jefnes3; 
Are you using Motec at the moment and how much for a 6 cylinder application like the VR6


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## Beaver Hunter (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Vento FI)*

That is sick,I knew with the advent of the new cheaper Bosch 5 wire UEGO there would be wide band closed loop.So you are saying you can program 12's or 11's a/f for example,and have the ECU run that closed loop?That is nutz if you can do that."No tuning needed!"


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## golfvrsc (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Jefnes3)*

MOTEC _ used on REAL race cars- many speedvision cars ect- could be used - how much I do not know, there are virtually NO limits to what that system can monitor, but a less extensive system may be available - I am trying to research now- 4cyl appliacation may be less - I beleive it is- If anybody has it on their car, i would like more info-


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## Beaver Hunter (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (golfvrsc)*

MOST people on here don't have REAL RACE CARS.Only a handful do,and if they had a real race car,I don't think they would be on the Tex asking questions about Standalone,VWHardcore forum maybe,but not here..........







We are talking DAILY DRIVER stand alone,atleast that is what the title of this thread says.


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## synthsis (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Beaver Hunter)*

yeah, im looking for straight reliability plus bang for the buck....i dont wanna drop two G's for TECIII if i dont have to.


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## corrado1409 (Aug 19, 2002)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (synthsis)*

http://www.autronic.com/sm2ecu.html


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Vento FI)*

Nah, I just have the Motec lambda meter...
The cost for wideband lambda meter is ~1000-$1200.
I believe that the ecu's are 4-6x that...
Jeffrey Atwood


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Jefnes3)*

Ok, the cost for the Wide-band O2 sensor here in the MicroTech is only the cost of the O2 sensor wich is about $250.00 all MicroTech ECU comes configure for the Wide-band O2


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Vento FI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vento FI* »_Ok, the cost for the Wide-band O2 sensor here in the MicroTech is only the cost of the O2 sensor wich is about $250.00 all MicroTech ECU comes configure for the Wide-band O2









E6X is the same way, and the Halmeter works directly with it.


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (jamesb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jamesb* »_
E6X is the same way, and the Halmeter works directly with it.

Yeah, I know, but is it as expensive as the Motec? How much is the E6X and does it comes configure for the VR6 or any other application?


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Vento FI)*

E6X will handle from a 4-12cyl motor. Its all in the software. Go check out the stats. The MSRP is high, but if you look around there are some great deals with all the options and sensors.


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (jamesb)*

Yeah, not bad, but still a little more $$ than what I'm paying on a MicroTech


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## synthsis (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (Vento FI)*

So whats the bottomline cost on the Microtech system, the thread on it is long and i dont have time to try to figure it all out


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: standalone engine management for daily driver (synthsis)*

Well for your car is the LT-8 wich runs for $ 870.00 the ECU with the harness, and configure for your car. If you want the handset is another $150 or if you want the Laptop cable and interface is about $100.00 so you can get your system for less that a 1000
Let me know if you are interested


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