# Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix!



## benny_mech (Mar 5, 2003)

Since I see this question posted all the time, here's my fix. Please note that you may not have the same exact problem, but I'd start here.
Your car spits the ever popular P0411 error code, here's (probably) why.
Pull the front bumper/rad support.








Peek under the intake manifold. (Sorry for the dark picture).








The 4mm inside diameter vaccuum hose gets pinched between the lower intake manifold and the secondary air pump housing, flattening it over time.
















Remove the combi valve from the cylinder head. It's the hose running from the solenoid valve to the combi valve.








Replace that hose with some plastic emissions tube from your friendly Autozone.








Has a smaller outside diameter, and won't get pinched.
Drink beers. 
Note that if you have this style valve with the vac port out the top, your vac hose routing is probably much better, and won't get pinched. (From Bently).








For reference (from Bently).








The pinched hose gets a vac signal when the secondary air injection valve opens. It (should) in turn supply vaccuum to open the combi (shut off valve) to allow the air from the sai pump to flow into the cylinder head. When it gets pinched, the combi valve doesn't open, and the pump tries to blow air through a shut valve. My pump sounded like it had bad bearings because of the added load, but now it's so quiet I almost can't hear it. 
Edit: Fixed picture links. Photobucket blows goats. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Modified by benny_mech at 11:00 PM 1-28-2008_


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## s4nit (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

I have to check this out tommorw at work and print it. I just got the code on my car. Do you need to pull the bumper or can you see it if you jack up the car?


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## benny_mech (Mar 5, 2003)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (s4nit)*

You have to get the combi valve all the way out to get at that hose. You might be able to do that by unbolting the front engine mount and jacking the engine up, but I'm not sure. It's actually a real pain to get at the bolt that holds it on even with the rad support out. It's best done with a ball end allen head driver (5mm I think). Pulling the front bumper/rad support only takes about 8 bolts, but there's a ton of wiring clips too. If you go the 'jack the engine' route, be sure your exhaust doesn't hit the underbody. If it does, you'll have to unbolt the cat -> downpipe connection, or start bending things. 


_Modified by benny_mech at 1:14 PM 5-25-2005_


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## SaucemanVR6 (Jan 20, 2001)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

really nice write-up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
i dealt with this SAIS crap a few months ago. first replaced the hose that goes from the pump to the combi valve. the hose was cracked in 2 places, plus the plastic connector for the combi valve was cracked as well. i was able to get to that by unbolting the top of the rad support and tilting it forward slightly. 
after the code came back, i decided to check the vacuum lines and the line that you show as pinched was completely gone. i was able to get to the combi valve pretty easily by unbolting the front lower mount and jacking the engine up.
just a few other options that work as well.








SAIS is a big PITA for something that runs for such a short period of time.








btw, if you need to reset your readiness codes for inspection without having to drive the car around for a few days, i wrote a thread explaining how to do it with a vag-com in about 15 minutes: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1904536
might be useful to anyone that fixes this and has to go through emissions inspection that scans your obdII port.


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## benny_mech (Mar 5, 2003)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (SaucemanVR6)*

Thanks! I wish I had yours a couple weeks ago. My readiness codes weren't setting and my tabs were expired. It turns out they will run the car on the rollers and use the sniffer if your codes aren't set (in Snohomish county, WA). Passed that way with flying colors.


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## TR04gli (Nov 2, 2001)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (benny_mech)*

OK - I'm bringing this thread back from the dead to add a few more useful bits of information to it after going through practically HELL to get this thing fixed on a 98 VR. 
First of all - There are 3 components to the SAIS - 
1) Secondary Air Inejction Pump - Expensive
2) Secondary Air Injection Valve aka Combi Valve aka Kombi Valve aka EGR Valve - Approx 200$ from http://www.worldimpex.com 
( http://www.worldimpex.com/item...39722 )
3) Solenoid
I have part numbers for 2 and 3 for a 98 VR I can post Later. 
While you have the car torn apart to the state shown in benny_mech's first pic I woud recommend getting at least 2 feet of vac tubing and replacing all the vac-tubing in this system. In my car there was a U shaped section that ran from the Intake to the Fuel Pressure Regulator that had a T fitting in the middle of this. Off the bottom of the T fitting was a line that went down to the solenoid, and a second line that came off of the solenoid that went to the Kombi Valve. 
Bold for Emphasis * On a 98 VR every last INCH of that vac tubing was crumbling in my finger tips. Do yourself a favor and replace ALL of it *. 
Secondly - Here's some helpful troubleshooting info... 
















This is a picture of the Kombi Valve. The black part connects to a plastic tube that connects to the actual Pump. The Left hand side shown in this picture attaches to a metal piece with an O-ring that inserts into your motor. The vac nipple (bottom right) should have Vac tubing attached to it. 
To determine if you valve is bad remove it from the motor completely. Put your lips around the black section and blow. If air passes through the valve it is bad. Now find a source of vacuum (power brake bleeder, or temporarily steal the line coming off the bottom of that T fitting and have a buddy start the motor briefly). Put vacuum onto that nipple. With vacuum applied you should be able to blow through the Kombi valve with a minimum of difficulty. If you can blow through the valve with NO vac, or you cannot blow through the valve WITH vac then you probably have a bad valve. Prepare to spend 200+ $. 
In my case all the vac tubing was basically destroyed. I opened up the motor, replaced it all, put it back together assuming that would fix it, and boom. Same code. I did not know how to check the valve at that point, so I did not think to check it. 
I then had to open up the motor again, and check the valve. Turns out the valve was OK. replace the 11$ solenoid and boom! I was in business. 
I dont have a good procedure for testing the pump if you do not have a vag-com. With VAG-COM Start the motor to idle. Open Controller, Engine. Open Basic-Settings. Block 160 will test the SAIS. Have a buddy stand by the front of the car. He/She shold be able to hear the SAIS Pump turn on for a short time and pump air. If what you hear sounds like a shop-vac your valve is staying closed. This could be because of a bad solenoid or a bad valve. This should be audible inside the car at idle (even with a loud exhaust). . I dont know what the other conditions will sound like.... this was the only condition my car experienced. 

Edit: Last but not least - if you're dead-set on checking the 11$ solenoid before replacing it... let the car get cold. By the time you get it this far taken apart it should be more than sufficiently cold. Put the vac tubing that goes from the T fitting to solenoid in the right place. Attach a length of vac tubing to the solenoid on the nipple that should lead to the combi valve. Hold your thumb over the piece of vac tubing that should go to the Kombi valve and have a buddy start the car briefly (15-20 seconds). You should be able to feel vac on your thumb. If you cannot, disconnect the other piece of vac tubing and check for vac on the tubing coming from the T fitting. If there is vac on the T fitting, but none on the solenoid on *cold start* then your solenoid is malfunctioning. 


_Modified by Xanthazar at 10:21 PM 9-9-2005_


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## gotissues68 (Apr 4, 2003)

Excellent info. I'm fighting this right now myself. I've made several posts trying to figure it out. I took your info about using vagcom after having pulled my front end apart and replacing the tubing from the combi to solenoid and still was getting the code showing up and it indeeds sounds like a shop vac ... so I'm going to replace the combi and solenoid next.. figure might as well replace both while I'm in there. I see the link for the combi, if anyone can get the part # for the solenoid that'd be sweet


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## TR04gli (Nov 2, 2001)

*Re: (gotissues68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gotissues68* »_Excellent info. I'm fighting this right now myself. I've made several posts trying to figure it out. I took your info about using vagcom after having pulled my front end apart and replacing the tubing from the combi to solenoid and still was getting the code showing up and it indeeds sounds like a shop vac ... so I'm going to replace the combi and solenoid next.. figure might as well replace both while I'm in there. I see the link for the combi, if anyone can get the part # for the solenoid that'd be sweet









Before you blow 200$ on the combi valve try the test of blowing thru it. If you can - with no vac to it - replace it. If you can't then apply vac to it. If you still cant blow thru it at that point - replace it. Otherwise save the cash and just replace the 11$ solenoid. I'll post a p/n tonight when I get back to my home comptuer where I've got it saved.


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: (Xanthazar)*

Just a tip guys, you can test every component without removing anything.
To do the 'blow' test on the combi, remove the breather hose from the airbox, cup your hands around it, and blow!
As an alternative to blowing, you can just listen through it with the engine running. Before SAIS kicks in, you wont hear anything through it. When it kicks on, if valve opens, you should hear lots of growling internal engine noises as well as feel the pump drawing air in.
Here is my basic procedure:
1. Ensure SAIS pump is coming on, if so move to #2, if not, check relays, fuses, then check fro voltage to pump. If all are good, it's probably pump. Prepare to be super bummed.
2. Test solenoid by replacing hose to combi with a length of hose so you can feel for vacuum with your finger when SAIS runs. If you feel vaccum, solenoid is good. If not, replace solenoid ($8-$15). If this doesn't work, move to step 3.
3. Do the blow test described way above. If nothing happens, you may have bad vac lines or combi. Replace all vac lines, but most importantly the one running to combi. If that doesn't work, you have a bad combi. Prepare to be slightly less bummed than if you had to replace the pump.

Final tip:
You don't need to take off the front end!
Just remove the plastic cover on top of the grille, unbolt the top bolt from front engine mount, jack engine up a few inches with block of wood to spread pressure. Remove dipstick tube for a little extra room. Use 5mm(?) ball end hex driver to remove combi bolt and yank that bastard out.




_Modified by Soren at 2:18 PM 9-12-2005_


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## gotissues68 (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: (Soren)*

Awesome, glad to know I can test it without pulling anything apart again http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Just so I'm clear on this. If I blow with the motor off into the airbox hose towards the combi I should NOT be able to blow into it correct?
[edit]
I think this should go into the DIY or be sticky'd since its a very common problem on the VR's and gets asked all the time and this is the most comprehensive info I think I've seen to date on it (including pics and everything)










_Modified by gotissues68 at 7:07 PM 9-12-2005_


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (gotissues68)*

I agree...Its seem if you have a VR with over 50,000 miles you might have a good chance that some sort of vacume tubbing has dryd out especially the one under the intake manifold...This is a excellent write up too http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Its forsure a PITA, but for like 1-3bucks worth of vac hose n few hours In the garage....problem fixed


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: (gotissues68)*

I've gained so much knowledge through this forum over the 5 years I've been a member.. It feels really good every time I can contribute/give back to the community. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## gotissues68 (Apr 4, 2003)

Just wanted to update everyone who has posted so far and for those who might need this thread later.
Following Soren's advice I went ahead and attempted to blow into the breather hose connecting the airbox to combi with the car off (so no vac) and wasn't able to blow so I know the valve ic closed. I then took a piece of tube and connected it to where the solenoid => combi connection normally goes. After verifying vacuum at the t fitting I then tested for vacuum on that section of hose and didn't feel anything perceptable. I then normalized everything and put it back the way its supposed to be (so assuming vacuum from the solenoid to combi) and attempted to blow through when the SAI pump kicked in and was unable to. So at this point I'm going to replace the solenoid first since I have no perceptable vac going from solenoid to combi. 
Hopefully this works out! I'm been letting this code lay around for too long (over a year).. now I feel like I have a fighting chance







For those who don't have a Vag Com, if you can fork over the money I highly recommend it, the directions here to cause the SAI pump to turn on even when the engine is warmed up are perfect and it makes trying to diagnose things go much faster


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: (gotissues68)*

Good work! That sounds like it's the solenoid. Let us know how it goes...
If it's not, you'll need to get that vac line replaced. It is a pain to get at, but nothing too horrible...

Here is another test you can try:
-Start engine, disconnect breather hose to get an idea of how it sounds when valve is closed.
-Shut off engine.
-Disconnect solenoid vac hose from tee fitting.
-Disconnect combi vac hose from solenoid.
-Connect combi vac hose to tee fitting.
-Start engine.
-This should keep the combi open constantly, so give the breather hose a listen. If the valve is open as it should be, you should hear lots of noise through it. If not, then the vac line is probably the culprit (or the combi). At this stage you'll need to remove that combi to replace the vac line, the combi, or both.


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## gotissues68 (Apr 4, 2003)

Update!
I went and purchased the solenoid from the dealer today 8.25 woo-woo came home and dropped it in. I now have very noticeable vac going out towards the combi ... I normalized everything again and went ahead and ran vagcom to force the SAI system to test. It passed the first run, the second run passed and then on the 3rd run through failed. 
I verified hoses and then swapped then around just to ensure I didn't do anything dumb and came up with the same results (failure).
So ... I zero'd out the ECU once again and forced the test with Vagcom and checked the breather hose coming off the airbox, could blow through it when the pump came on with known good vac. 
I already have replaced the hose between the solenoid and combi. So now it looks like its combi replacement time (boo!)
Just so that its noted here. 
Part #'s for all 3 components of the SAI system.
Solenoid 191 906 283 A
There was a VIN split on both the pump and combi so I'm providing all numbers, check with your dealer when you go to purchase.
Combi part #'s
021 131 101 <= earlier 95 
021 131 101 A <= late 95 and above per the dealer. You can tell if this is the right part number if you have a "T" in the last eight numbers/letters of your VIN
SAI Pump #'s
078 906 601 E
021 959 253 B
021 959 253
Hope this helps! And I'll be sure to post back the results once I get the combi done!


_Modified by gotissues68 at 3:52 AM 9-19-2005_


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## 1VR62NV (Sep 13, 2003)

should have jus got rid of the SAI and plugged it


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (1VR62NV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1VR62NV* »_should have jus got rid of the SAI and plugged it

its illegal to get rid of the sai.
also, many of us have to pass a scantool test for emissions. without the pump, you will definately fail.


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## TR04gli (Nov 2, 2001)

*Re: (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_
its illegal to get rid of the sai.
also, many of us have to pass a scantool test for emissions. without the pump, you will definately fail.

True 
Thats why I had to fix it - Scantool Emmissions. 
Personally, based on what this system does I feel it is of dubious value anyway. <this is my opinion, feel free to disagree, but realize i dont really care what you think> 
If I had been able to find any real info about fooling the sensors with a resistor filled black-box I would have gladly done that instead of fix the damned thing. I'm sure it will only break again in the future and next time the car will be old enough that regardless of OBD2 scan-tool tests it will be a cold-day in hell before I'm spending 500+ $ fixing a system that runs for 30 seconds a day. Damned hippies.


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## gotissues68 (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: (Xanthazar)*

I agree in that I think the expense associated with this particular system which is prone to failure makes it very hard to not just ignore it or search for inventive ways to disable it. I'm all for helping emissions but not at nearly a 1k in parts costs alone. I can only imagine what it would cost if I went to the dealer or a shop and had them try and do this







In the same breath though I'm also taking this as an opportunity to learn more about the workings of my car


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## itb76 (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (Vdubsolo)*

Not just the vacuum tubing but the air hoses are also problematic. 2 of the 3 air hoses on my car were shot, allowing water to get into the SAI blower and fry the motor. Also my combi valve was bad, so it was blowing water into the air intake and exhaust. My cat is shot (can't say this is what caused it, but can't say it didn't) but MAF still appears OK. I bought a used setup off a guy, the air hoses and combi valve were also shot. The blower is good but the fittings don't match my old one.
Took the easy way out and plugged the system. I was tempted to put a test pipe in place of the cat but decided against it--$255 for emissions control that works all the time is one thing, $1,000 for SAI is crazy.
Now I get to take the dash apart & remove the bulb for the MIL. (No emissions testing in my area.







)


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## 1VR62NV (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_
also, many of us have to pass a scantool test for emissions. without the pump, you will definately fail.

in canada we dont have a scantool test but you can run resistors in line with the wires for the SAI and the engine will not bring up a CEL
this was a big help

_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_My Vr is in a 95 car, even though its a 98 engine, I don't have to get it scanned for inspection since the car is OBD 1. Any way here is what I could find on what resisters to use for it, I'm not sure who originally posted it, sorry. 
I may have to put some kind of load (23 ohms, 6 watts (big resistor)) on the wire to keep from getting a permanent CEL.
The ECU switches the grounds for the Secondary Air Intake Valve (N112) and the Secondary Air Injection Pump Relay (J299). The ECU also looks for current flow on those circuits and will throw a CEL if they aren't there.
I removed the switched contacts from the relay that drives the Secondary Air Pump Motor but left the coil part of the relay connected. It is relay 100 in the relay box under the hood. 
I wanted to replace the relay and the vacuum switch with resistors to clean it up but the resistor to replace the vacuum switch would have to be about 5 Watts (BIG).
A couple of 1 watt resistors (60 ohms for the relay, 30 ohms for the valve) and put them in a convoluted tube
Here is the final version of the Secondary Air Recirc system kluge. I used a 28 ohm 3 watt resistor for the Secondary Air Intake Valve (SAIV) and a 58 ohm 3 watt resistor for the Secondary Air Pump Relay. 
1. Use the wire to the power side of the Secondary Air Pump Relay coil and connect it to one end of both resistors.
2. Connect the other end of the 58-ohm resistor to the wire from the ECU side of the Secondary Air Pump Relay coil.
3. Connect the other end of the 28-ohm resistor to the wire that goes from the SAIV to the ECU. 
After the pic I slid the larger convoluted tube over it and taped it up.


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## gotissues68 (Apr 4, 2003)

Combi purchased... tonight is N hour... I'm going to come away with the big W if you all feel what I'm saying here.. it'll be the first time in 29 months that I've been CEL free *hopefully*


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: (gotissues68)*

good luck!!!


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## gotissues68 (Apr 4, 2003)

I am CEL free! Thanks to the info provided by Soren and Xan. I started installing the combi last night and got stuck on the nut that holds the dipstick in =\ got that resolved today and everything went back in and its all good now







Thanks again to everyone who's posted helpful info on how clear this bish up


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## 99VR6 (Apr 2, 2005)

dealership was gonna charge me $800+ to do this...im not as skilled to perform this process, maybe down the road a bit...thanks for the post tho


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: (99VR6)*

It's not really very hard! 
You just need to get the motivation to do it. Or a case of beer and a mechanically inclined friend. Or give a friend $100 to do it. Beats wasting your paycheck at a scummy dealership...


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## VR6 MD (Mar 26, 2003)

*Re: (Soren)*

Is there any gain from the removal of the SAI? For some reason Schimmel removed it when he did my motor. If there is n; parasitic loss or anything I'm gonna throw it back on.


_Modified by VR6 MD at 6:37 PM 9-27-2005_


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## vwguy3 (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: (VR6 MD)*

What is the SAI system for? I'm not a VR guy, but my father in law is looking at a 97 passat with a VR^ in it and when we test drove it it had a engine code light on. so we told them that we wanted them to check it out before we thought about buying and they came back and told us that the code was a P0411. I'm not sure if I want to take the chance on buying it hoping that it is just a bad hose.
Thanks
Justind


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## gotissues68 (Apr 4, 2003)

The SAI is an emissions system. It pumps warm air into your exhaust until the car is fully warmed up, it does this to reduce emissions. If you're buying from a dealership or used car place, make them fix it. If its private party, I'd ask them if they'd lower the price by 1k to cover possible expenses if you want to attempt to repair it yourself or have a shop do it. 
Its not going to hurt the car to throw the code or have a problem with SAI, unless your state does scan tool emissions testing.


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## dubroz (May 4, 2000)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

JUST CURIOUS,
HAS ANYONE EVER TRIED TO MAKE A DEALER FIX THIS UNDER A POWERTRAIN WARRANTY?
I HAVE A P0411 & P1297 CEL on my 2000 VW Jetta 1.8T.
Waddaya think ???????


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## ForgedLX (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (dubroz)*

very good information. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif too bad i don't have the time to do this. just got the code the other day, and found the pump is working and it's prob. the hose. getting some other stuff done at KMDtuning so i'm gonna let them fix it.


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## JTestman (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (Soren)*

Xanthazar, Soren,
Thanks for the info, its extremely helpful. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Just to be clear on the instructions, I blew through the breather hose from the airbox and Air passed freely, I cannot blow through combi valve unless its under vacuum.
Does this mean the pump is bad? I hear the pump activate when idling and using vag-com to test it. 



_Modified by JTestman at 6:22 AM 11-22-2005_


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## Surf Green (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (JTestman)*

A FYI about bad Combi Valves before you spend $$ on them.
My Combi Valve was stuck shut, giving me the code (Everything else checked fine, and I replaced the vac hoses anyway)
I removed the valve, filled it with Carb cleaner (from the output side, which was full of black guuk). Let it sit for a few minutes. Dumped, and repeat a few times.
I was able to hear the valve open/close with my handy "Mouth Vac" on the vaccume hose.
Reinstalled, and it's been working fine for the past 2 years. At the very least... if it gunks up again, I can fix it long enough to work if I get another Emissions test request.


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## 1993jetta GL (Sep 17, 1999)

*Re: (Surf Green)*

I have the same code on my 2001 VR6! Is this problem the same for MK4 model cars as MK3! also my car is not running right! It runs like crap when cold! The car idles fine but when I give it gas it sometimes hesitates!


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (1993jetta GL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1993jetta GL* »_also my car is not running right! It runs like crap when cold! The car idles fine but when I give it gas it sometimes hesitates! 


i have the same problem, getting my car VAG'ed next week and i'm guessing its a P0441 or some other problem..... figures i have inspection in january too


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## automan21 (Feb 22, 2005)

*Re: (1993jetta GL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1993jetta GL* »_I have the same code on my 2001 VR6! Is this problem the same for MK4 model cars as MK3! also my car is not running right! It runs like crap when cold! The car idles fine but when I give it gas it sometimes hesitates! 
 yeah whats up with the 2001 vr6s is this a common problem for them or did vw reroute the hose for hte mk4s. I just helped my friend do his on his 97 vr and it was a pita dont want to do this on my car. any idea if this probllem still persists on 01's


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## veedub8422 (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

thanks for a great thread. very very helpful.







i will try to fix my p0411 problem this weekend. hopefully all goes well and i'll end up with a car that passes emmissions.







then i'll get me some alaskan amber too!


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (veedub8422)*

bump for all the guys with recent SAI problems...
sai system - http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
this thread - http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VR6speed (Mar 13, 2001)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (Soren)*

has anyone ever noticed what a bad combi valve on a S/C or Turbo car feels like??? 
Does it cause a hesitation under vaccuum and clean up while in boost??
I am trying to narrow down where this hesitation is coming from, and this thread just made me think about the combi valve and the solenoid.


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## veedub8422 (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

what size emissionis tubing do you need to replace the vacuum lines?is there only one size/diameter?


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (veedub8422)*

the stuff I got at autozone was marked 3/16" fuel/emissions
It's a little beefier than the stock hose but fits and routes fine through the same place the original hose went.


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## AutoX-FIB (Nov 20, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (Soren)*

Soren, 
When you jack the motor up as you described, are you able to reach the vac hoses as well? I'm gearing up to do this in the next few weeks and I want to know what is the best approach. 
BTW, great post, thanks to all involved! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (AutoX-FIB)*

Well, once you remove the combi valve, yes... otherwise it's impossible to get to the friggin thing...
see, combi out, engine up, front end still on:


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## veedub8422 (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (Soren)*

is it at all possible to get to the vac line/combi without jacking up the engine and unbolting the front mount if you go underneath the car? i'm not a big fan, nor fully confident, in using a jack to hold up an engine.


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (veedub8422)*

nope, believe me i tried!! i didn't want to do it either, but it's cool, just put something between the jack (i use a thick softcover book to spread weight) and the end of the transmission housing where it meets the block. It's very solid and can support the weight, and there's no chance of denting it and messing up oil feed like with the oil pan. Also, you don't have to jack it up extremely far. When you drop it back down, you may have to shake the engine around a bit to get the bolt to thread in, sometimes the holes don't quite line up perfectly.
Also, when you are getting the bolt for the combi out, there's one for the intake manifold right next to it, so if the combi doesn't come out you probably got the wrong one like i did, hehe..


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (veedub8422)*

here is a visual of why you can't get to it from below...
this was taken when I replaced the crack pipe and tstat housing, so they are gone and the SAI pump is loosened, otherwise there is of course nowhere near this much clearance.


----------



## veedub8422 (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (Soren)*

lol i had to replace that stoopid plastic coolant pipe before a couple months after i got my car.







my first experience with a vr6 was not a pleasant one, but i understand by what you mean about no room to work.







today i finally get to give all this a try. off to buy some emissions tube right now.







thanks for all your help soren.


----------



## veedub8422 (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (Soren)*

so i tried to check out the relay/fuse first to start out easy (no such thing though, right?







) wtf is the 30a fuse? is it that metal jumper on the relay housing?








anyone have a pic of the 111 relay housing that shows where the fuse is? i couldn't find it. thinking maybe mine is missing.










_Modified by veedub8422 at 3:01 AM 3-14-2006_


----------



## veedub8422 (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (veedub8422)*

bump


----------



## brandonglx (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (veedub8422)*

bump for SAI problems, everyone has delt with this stupid system. I finally fixed my ish after 2 years, put a new combi and lines in, fingers crossed that it's finally fixed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## veedub8422 (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (veedub8422)*

anyone got anymore good pics of the combi, solenoid, hose routing, or how to take everything apart? i'm having a hell of a time...


----------



## z33k (Feb 18, 2001)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (veedub8422)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedub8422* »_wtf is the 30a fuse? is it that metal jumper on the relay housing?








anyone have a pic of the 111 relay housing that shows where the fuse is? i couldn't find it. thinking maybe mine is missing.








_Modified by veedub8422 at 3:01 AM 3-14-2006_


Yes, the metal "jumper" is the fuse. Also, it's a 50a, not 30a like the Bentley says. Take the fuse off, clean it up real good to see it's stamped with '50A'. Seems lots of ppl replaced with a 30A several times only to blow them.
There are two fusible links in that location. One is below the coolant overflow bottle on the strut tower- That one is next to two regular fuses. The large relay these are on is for the radiator fans. 
You're looking for the other fusible link- and the relay '111' is just above that. Check your fusible linke, could be bad.
BTW- that relay is like thirty bucks from the dealer.

EDIT: I replaced the relay, didn't fix the issue... replaced the solenoid and my SAI code is gone!!! The solenoid was only eight bucks (dealer) and they had four in stock. MUCH better than replacing the ~$400 pump or $200 combi valve. Now I can get an inspection.

Isaac


_Modified by z33k at 8:54 AM 3-22-2006_


----------



## veedub8422 (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (z33k)*

i wasn't sure if that jumper was the fuse or not. knew where it was, but wasn't sure. know wbout the fuses but the strut too but thiught they were part of a different circuit. thx for the help. i think my problem is the solenoid.


----------



## vrnick01 (Apr 4, 2005)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (veedub8422)*

on my 98 i just did the combi, vac lines and solinoid, and im still getting the code, the pump is running, what is going on here??


----------



## brandonglx (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (vrnick01)*

it actually took my code to clear after 3days, the system had to recognize that the combi was working. Did you make sure the combi held vacuum before you put it in? also check the vacuum line that runs to the combi, it could be pinched, I actually squeezed mine past the bottom of the manifold, theres more room in the back.


----------



## veedub8422 (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (vrnick01)*

i replaced my kombi, all vac lines, and the solenoid. pass emissions just fine.







i had to replace the kombi cause there was all kinds of 
$#!% in it. apparently the neuspeed foam breather filter decided to deteriorate without telling me it was gonna do so...







in the end, lesson learned. foam filters = crap







and check THAT breather filter too when i check my air filter.







oh well. my bad.







bump for everyone else with this stoopid code.


----------



## calculatinginfinity (Dec 23, 2003)

http://img.photobucket.com/alb...1.jpg
what page/or section is this in the bentley. i looked forever and found nothing.


----------



## z33k (Feb 18, 2001)

*Re: (calculatinginfinity)*

That's going to be in the Exhaust/Emissions chapter. Alternatively you can search the index for 'Secondary Air' I think...


----------



## lazyace (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow*

Hi all,
I just worked on my 95 Jetta GLX VR6 SAIS today. I got the following code through Vag-Com:
00758 - Secondary Air Injection System (AIR)
31-00 - Open or Short to Ground
I know from the fault there is an open or short in the electrical system but I am going to do some much needed maintenance along with the electrical troubleshooting. The vacuum tubes, I can already tell, are in dire need of replacement.
When I removed the SAIS intake hose (note 1) from air box and listened, during a cold start, I could hear noises but none that distinct. I could feel, ever so slightly, air moving in and out almost simultaneously. Also I checked for vacuum off the tee next to fuel regulator going to the SAIS. There was vacuum present.
To work on the SAIS, the easiest way, remove front motor mount lower bolt and jack up the front of engine on the bell housing as described earlier in thread. Be careful and watch out for the areas above the exhaust between the firewall. Also be mindful of the clearance between the intake hose (from the air box to the throttle body) and the firewall. You may have to remove or loosen intake hose from air box and from throttle body. Be sure to maintain cleanliness during this process when dealing with throttle body and MAF. Use rags to cover any openings. BTW I used my Haynes’s manual between the jack and the bell housing







Lesson: get a Bentley!!
Here is what I did next:
1. Replaced all vacuum tubing with 4mm (5/32in.)
2. Ran output tests for SAIS components and the air pump (V101) did not come on and did not hear relay J299 click. Solenoid (N112) actuated (clicked repeatedly).
3. Pulled off the 2 pin connector to the air pump (V101). 
4. Removed pressure hose from pump to combi-valve and inspected for cracks. Left removed for now.
(Caution) - Observe ground terminal location. I believe it was the top connector. Check for black wire on connector. 
5. Ran 12vdc from battery to blower and checked for operation. It worked!! Woo hoo!! Mmm.. the sweet sound of me saving money!!
6. Inspected inline fuse for blower underneath relay 111. Actually, I "inspected" the lack of a fuse. It had corroded away completely!! Cleaned and shorted fuse contacts (for temporary testing purposes only). Will replace with 50 amp fuse later.
7. Reconnected ALL hoses accordingly, leaving SAIS intake hose (note 1) disconnected from air box.
8. Lowered engine back down. Ensured lower mount boot was seated properly. And re-torque front engine mount lower bolt to 41 ft lb.
9. Started engine and listed for change in sound from SAIS intake hose.
10. Result – Worked like a champ!
11. Reconnected SAIS intake hose (note 1) to air box.
12. Cleared fault codes using Vag-Com. Drove around for a while, then rescanned faults.
Worked!!
13. Drove to the bar for some much deserved beers!!

If you have any questions, please ask.

Note 1 – SAIS intake hose from air box to the air pump (V101).
Also for reference from Bentley (buy one if you don’t have one)!!:
The SAIS blows air behind the exhaust valve for 65 seconds during a cold start (+15 C ... +35 C engine coolant temperature). 
Activation is initiated by the Motronic Engine Control Module (ECM) -J220- via the First or Third Speed Coolant Fan Control Cut-Off relay -J229- to Secondary Air Injection solenoid valve -N112- and Combi-valve. After each subsequent engine start (up to max. 85 C engine temperature) the Secondary Air Injection system will (after a 20 second delay) switch in for 5 seconds during idle.
****************************************
****************************************
****************************************

Edit: here is where the fuse is located and the type of fuse I used.













If you can't find an oem strip type fuse you can modify a large blade type fuse like so:















The oem strip style fuse looks like this: 

















****************************************
****************************************
****************************************
*Some good info to help clear some things up







:*

_Quote, originally posted by *golfgringo* »_OK
I have finally fixed this problem after about 20 hours over 2 1/2 weeks! 
The failed components were:
* Kombi valve
* vac line to Kombi valve
* the solenoid [N112]
* 50amp fusible link
* voltage preventing corrosion on the 111 relay and it's fusible link
Yeah that's everything but the pump itself!!!!!!!!!
Because there were some things that were not clear to me from the previous posts, let me attempt to add some more detail.
Yes everything can be done by unbolting the front motor mount and jacking the engine.
*Start here*
Test pump
Remove the harness connector to pump. [You will grow to hate those 'wire release' connectors!] Jumper the terminals on the pump connector directly to the battery. Pay attention to the pos and neg as they are clearly marked on the pump. No need to strain to hear it run, it sounds like a hair dryer at full blast!








If it runs be glad and continue on, if not start looking for one.
Diag sequence w/ VAG-Com:
Don't remove mount or lift engine.
W/ engine off, select engine scan and then output tests. Toggle past injectors and evap control.
Select solenoid [N112] 
you should be able to feel it click when you hold it in your hand. Double check its function by removing the vac line from the T to the solenoid and try to blow thru it. You should be able to blow freely in a pulsing sequence as the VAG activates the valve.
No blow thru or click - bad valve. Replace
Select relay [111]
you should hear it click or feel it w/ your hand. 
no click, remove and clean posts [and receptacle]
still no click - relay bad. replace
you should also hear the air pump run in pulses as the relay clicks.
no pump - check 50 amp fuse in front of 113 relay. replace if bad and definitely SHINE UP ALL CONNECTIONS W/ EMERY CLOTH BEFORE RECONNECTING.
[I used the modded Buss fuse trick that lazyace posts instead of going to the dealer]








If pump doesn't run now and did run when performing test then the wiring btween the relay and pump is bad or the current is not flowing thru the fusible link. Test w/ ohmeter for continuity.
If all tests are positive thus far, then start the car for the first time now. You cannot test the kombi valve remotely, so that is the point of this trial. Pull the hose from the front of the airbox, start the car and listen.
The kombi valve sounds like the oil fill cap is off - the hollow pulsing of air moving thru the valves. It is plenty loud to hear! You can hear it even over [under actually] the hair dryer sound of the pump.
Can't hear the Kombi? Well, you have remove it test it properly.
Now the fun begins - remove the mount and jack up the engine.
Some notes of caution:
1. Make sure that you are using the correct size hex wrench, they are tight and you only get one chance. Those holding the pump are 5 mm and those into the block are 6mm [I think]. You will need the wobble style [ball end] to remove the actual kombi valve bolt. If you strip it by trying it w/ a straight tool, like I did







all is not lost. You can remove the valve from the tube itself by the two other bolts. Like everything else about this job, it is a HUGE pain in the a$$ but can be done.
2. Those 'flexible' ends on the air hose are not flexible.







DO NOT TWIST THEM, squeeze the 'release ring' [another genius piece of engineering] and pull them STRAIGHT out. Hot melt glue and electricians tape work well to repair them when they crack.
3. The pump must come out before the Kombi can be accessed and removed. Try to leave the pump 'out of the way' next to the rad instead of trying to snake it out, which is also a PITA!
OK now you can test the valve. 
Now logic suggests that a vacuum actuated valve should hold vacuum, but not the case here - at least for me. Applying vacuum to the nipple will open the valve and allow for air to flow thru. A hand pump [MityVac] doesn't seem to be the true test here. It would not work w/ the hand pump. It did work, however, when I attached the vacuum hose directly from the T [not the solenoid]. The continuous vacuum from the running engine keeps the valve open and lets you blow thru it w/ your mouth, confirming its operation.
If no flow under vacuum - bad valve replace.
If it flows, reassemble everything and you have fixed your SAI problem.

*Diag Sequence without VAG-com*
Test pump as above
Test Relay [111]
With your jumper wires, clip to the battery and to the posts on the relay - 85 is negative and 86 is positive. With power to the relay, you should hear it click. Confirm function by using volt meter to send ohms across 30 and 87. If continuity is confirmed, relay is good.
Test fuse [under relay]
A visual inspection is not sufficient here. Disassemble it and clean all contact points. Test continuity w/ ohmeter when reassembled.
Testing solenoid
You should be able to jumper this as well from the battery to confirm blow thru, but I could not readily identify pos and neg so I shyed away from trying. 
The engine, however, will send the correct voltage upon cold start, so merely starting the car and blowing thru [no need to suck fumes into your mouth!] should confirm its function. Still not sure, spend the $10 at the dealership and replace it.
Test Kombi valve
Try sound test above. Then remove and test w/ engine vacuum [as above] if needed.

*Optional but highly recommended:*
Throughout the above procedures you will, no doubt, need some stress relief. Feel free to:
*Stop and slam some beers.
*Find a heavy bag and go nuts
*chase down your wife/ girlfriend








Consider yourself fully intiated and bonded w/ your dub after you have licked this.


----------



## ihaveavr6 (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

ah i just got this code so it looks like i will be refering back to this page frequently


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## captain coordination (Nov 4, 2004)

*sai*

ok so when i bought my car there was no sai installed. 
the previous owner was a mechanic and purposely took it and the cat off to get past some smog control. 
i live in florida, so no emissions, but does this affect my engine other than having a constant CEL? 
i hear people say it does and it doesnt.
anybody with any knowledge or experience with this please respond.


----------



## strat3582 (Jan 19, 2005)

Is there a way to get the constant CEL reprogrammed so it will be off?


----------



## lazyace (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: sai (captain coordination)*

The Secondary Air Injection system blows in air behind the exhaust valve for 65 seconds during the cold start (+15 C ... +35 C engine coolant temperature). This produces an Oxygen rich exhaust gas, causes afterburning and reduces the heat-up time for the three-way catalyst. (catalytic converter)


----------



## captain coordination (Nov 4, 2004)

*Re: sai (lazyace)*

so basically i dont need it unless i want to pass emissions or protect the environment?


----------



## lazyace (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: sai (captain coordination)*

In short form.... yes. You would be safe, I believe, to run without it. You will most definitely produce greater emissions although. I would understand though; putting the system back on costs a decent amount of money.

As for the other Q: I don't think you will get an answer on how to "reprogram" the CEL even if there is a way. That could be bad if people used it to sell "working" cars. I'm not implying you but others who read this post.


----------



## captain coordination (Nov 4, 2004)

*Re: sai (lazyace)*

i actualy heard there was a way to trick it electronically by faking the signal that goes to the ECU it uses to detect SAI problems but i have not experimented with that............ it has to be possible however.


----------



## strat3582 (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

ok, so I am in Tampa , Fl and we do not have emissions testing. I have been puting together my VR6 and found that my SAI hole on the Head is plugged. I have the SAI which I am going to check it to see if it all works right and if it does I was thinking of hooking it back up cause it will drive me crazy to have the CEL on constantly. What is the best way to unplug it? My motor is sitting on an engine stand about 95% rebuilt, do I have to take it apart to unplug it?








































Sorry if the pics are big...Still trying to learn this HTML Stuff.








Thanks for any and all help you can give me... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ihaveavr6 (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (veedub8422)*

alright earlier in the week the code went away. the nite before i got the code i slammed a pot hole pretty bad. could it be that the vacuum hose just got temporarily pinched? well thats my theory


----------



## captain coordination (Nov 4, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (strat3582)*

i've heard of that. i've seen screw in plug bolts for the sai before for sale at some tuning shops online. those looked like actual bolts u could take out with little trouble. yours looks a lot like the kind u might have to drill out, but it's hard to tell from the pic. i'm not gonna pretend to be a mechanic, but it looks like u might have to drill it and/or take it back apart to get that puppy out.
nice lookin engine tho http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

i hear ya on the CEL mine drives me crazy cause i never know for sure if something else besides the sai is giving it codes unless i hook it up to a scanner


_Modified by captain coordination at 8:42 AM 4-28-2006_


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## strat3582 (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (captain coordination)*

Thanks Capt, I spoke with a buddy of mine and he said it is the kind that I will have to screw out. He said it shouldn't be too bad. Now I have to make sure that the SAI is actually working right before I go through all of that.







Thanks for the help and the compliment http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dubiousdub (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (strat3582)*

I think this may be a problem.
















I've already replaced the solenoid and new tubing. The CEL has been coming on and off the past couple of weeks right at start up. The air pump still runs and you can feel the combi valve sucking. I cleaned off the 111 relay and the light went away and then it came back on. The pump still runs, due to the hose breaking I took the relay out though so it doesn't come on. I need to now get a new hose and I'm gonna check the 50a fuse. 
How to do you get this sucker off? I tried to twist it and pull it off but that's not working. 










_Modified by dubiousdub at 1:23 PM 5-2-2006_


----------



## maxslug (May 22, 2005)

mine broke too. Those little connectors are the anti-christ.
wonder how much it'll be to replace. You can ghetto rig it by removing the two connectors. They are actually barbed connectors once you cut off that cheap plastic hose. Then put some other sort of hose on there. Heater hose didn't work too good because the bends are so severe it just crimped. Maybe garden hose ?








-m


----------



## dubiousdub (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: (maxslug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxslug* »_mine broke too. Those little connectors are the anti-christ.

lol, yea it ain't moving. the angle it's at sucks. the hose was brittle too.


----------



## boogata25 (Jun 20, 2005)

how did u drop the radiator like that without disconnecting and draining the system!?


----------



## strat3582 (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (captain coordination)*

Thanks for the assistance. My neighbor helped me out, it is a freeze plug which we were wble to get out. Thanks for the compliment. I think it is looking good too, I just hope it runs well when we put it in!!!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## strat3582 (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (dubiousdub)*

Yeah, mine was broke too. I had gotten another one at a cost of near $75. This is not an inexpensive hobby but it is fun!!!


----------



## SAMNYCVR6 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (strat3582)*

what was used to plug this system i would rather plug this crap then keep on dealing with it.


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## boogata25 (Jun 20, 2005)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (SAMNYCVR6)*

probably this:
http://42draftdesigns.com/vr6saiplug.htm


----------



## SAMNYCVR6 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (boogata25)*

would this fit a 2000 jetta vr6 as well? it says 93 - 99


----------



## elephant parade (Jan 10, 2006)

i'm still waiting on someone to find a way to get rid of the CEL for those of us who pulled the pumps out....


----------



## 86WolfsburgGLI (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: (elephant parade)*

My secondary air injection fix!








+


----------



## boogata25 (Jun 20, 2005)

what are all those wires etc?


----------



## envi (Jul 31, 2005)

*Re: (boogata25)*

Standalone


----------



## SAMNYCVR6 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (SAMNYCVR6)*

Will this plug work for a 2000 VR6?
Im hoping that it does


----------



## SAMNYCVR6 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (SAMNYCVR6)*

Also, is there a program where you can tune that **** out of your ECU so the CEL will not come on again for that problem?


----------



## SAMNYCVR6 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (SAMNYCVR6)*

ttt


----------



## boogata25 (Jun 20, 2005)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (SAMNYCVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAMNYCVR6* »_Also, is there a program where you can tune that **** out of your ECU so the CEL will not come on again for that problem?

i wish someone knew this too!


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (86WolfsburgGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *86WolfsburgGLI* »_My secondary air injection fix!








+









fixes the following:
check engine lights
replacing maf sensors
replacing o2 sensors (cause you dont actually have to have one)
removal of all egr/secondary air injection who-hah
slow crapilly running unreliable motronic syndrom
lifes solution to bogging/missfiring/complaining about chips
will get you laid


----------



## SAMNYCVR6 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: (the4ork)*

does this fit on a 2000 vr6?


----------



## SAMNYCVR6 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: (SAMNYCVR6)*

anyone know if the SAI plug works for a 2000 vr6?


----------



## 86WolfsburgGLI (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: (SAMNYCVR6)*

fits OBD1 and OBD2 VR6 1993-1999


----------



## SAMNYCVR6 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: (86WolfsburgGLI)*

what can i use to plug the SAI for my 2000 VR6?
i hope there is something out there


----------



## SAMNYCVR6 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: (SAMNYCVR6)*

anybodyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


----------



## boogata25 (Jun 20, 2005)

*Re: (the4ork)*

so the whole box and wire thing somehow connects to the ECU and doesnt throw a CEL, so i would pass emissions? Where and how $ !?


----------



## Pete W. (Feb 13, 2005)

Ok I need to fix this so I can pass local testing. How long soud it take start to finish?


----------



## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (boogata25)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boogata25* »_so the whole box and wire thing somehow connects to the ECU and doesnt throw a CEL, so i would pass emissions? Where and how $ !?

no.
you take out your wiring to your car and completely replace it with this SEM (standalone engine management).
then you can tune your car with a laptop and such. its very difficult to do properly.
just fix your SAI stuff.


----------



## SAMNYCVR6 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: (jhayesvw)*

anyone know of a secondary air injection plug for a 2000 jetta vr6?


----------



## 86WolfsburgGLI (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: (SAMNYCVR6)*

A freeze plug might work,.


----------



## SAMNYCVR6 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: (86WolfsburgGLI)*

freeze plug?


----------



## SAMNYCVR6 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: (SAMNYCVR6)*

what size? where to purchase? how to install?
this problem just keeps getting louder and annoying!


----------



## VertigoGTI (Apr 1, 2001)

*Re: (SAMNYCVR6)*

Ummm... I think you have a different problem then. 
The SAI makes absolutely no noise when it's broken. 

_Quote »_then you can tune your car with a laptop and such. its very difficult to do properly.
just fix your SAI stuff.


Agreed. If you don't have the money or desire to fix the SAI system, you'll give up on standalone after looking at it for five minutes.


----------



## benny_mech (Mar 5, 2003)

*Re: (SAMNYCVR6)*

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/vehsafe.htm#einspect
It's going to get more annoying once you bypass it and can't pass scantool emissions anymore. Fix it right if you want the fewest headaches in the long term. 


_Modified by benny_mech at 11:21 PM 5-16-2006_


----------



## 86WolfsburgGLI (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: (benny_mech)*

PSHH your smog crap is easy to pass,. try living in California,. there crazy here!


----------



## SAMNYCVR6 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: (86WolfsburgGLI)*

yea NYC isnt bad espescially those torndown inspection places. lol you give them 20 bux more they'll pass you regardless what the hell you have on your car. papi! papi! 
so how do i know what size freeze plug i need for a 2000 vr6?


----------



## VertigoGTI (Apr 1, 2001)

*Re: (SAMNYCVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAMNYCVR6* »_so how do i know what size freeze plug i need for a 2000 vr6?










You measure it or you get a SAI plug from 42nd Draft.


----------



## SAMNYCVR6 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: (VertigoGTI)*

i would have gotten the 42 DraftDesign SAI plug a long time ago however, i was told that it does not fit the 2000 VR6. so i went crazy for a company that makes one and could not find one. has anyone on here done it already on a 2000 VR?


----------



## maxslug (May 22, 2005)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (strat3582)*


_Quote, originally posted by *strat3582* »_Yeah, mine was broke too. I had gotten another one at a cost of near $75. This is not an inexpensive hobby but it is fun!!!
















You don't have a part number for this, do you?


----------



## becerob (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (z33k)*

Where do I find this relay? I think I have the same problem and would like to check the fuses/relays first.


----------



## MIRACLEWHIP119 (Sep 7, 2005)

my car was/ is making the noise thats discribed in the first post (like bad bearings) i took everything out today and replaced the line that was mentioned as mine was not even connected it was in such bad state. Is it possible for the pump / combie to be clogged and causing it to trip a code? 
I blew into the combi and i couldn't pass air threw it so i dont think its a bad combi, and the pump is puming so i dk.


----------



## MIRACLEWHIP119 (Sep 7, 2005)

TTT


----------



## MIRACLEWHIP119 (Sep 7, 2005)

anyone.....


----------



## lui16blue (Oct 18, 2004)

*Re: (kurtanglevr6)*

i see that the title says for a VR6 would this work for a 2000 jetta 1.8T cuz i have the same code.??


----------



## Point_Blank (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (lui16blue)*

So i changed the vac line casue it was pinched but i still have the cell come back on after i clear the code. Within the last two years i replaced the combi-valve, the sai comes on. It sounds healthy(no bad bearing sound) so what should i look into next?


----------



## VR6OOM (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: (Point_Blank)*

Will this cause any performance problems? My car is turbo.


----------



## pankajagg (Aug 4, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

Hi,
My CIL was on a month back. I got it checked, it had code P0411, for which the guy said try tighting the gas cap , as it could be a false alarm. and he reset it. Around 100 miles later CIL came back on again and this time it has two Codes:
P0411 Secondary Air Injection System Incorrect Flow
P0139 Secondary Heated Oxygen Sensor (Secondary HO2S) Slow Response
Any comment on if these codes could be related? I couldn't find much info on P0139..
Thanks,


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## mmr159 (Jan 4, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (pankajagg)*

I've had the p0411 for a long time now and share most opinions about the system. Up to 1k repair for an emissions system that runs a couple minutes a day is silly. How much pollution are we really avioding here? I'd love to know the equivalent in, say, an SUV idling at optimal tempurature. Gimme a break.
My fix was a replacing the shot vac line to/from the solenoid.
Anyway, should you find yourself in a tight spot with this CEL and don't have the time/$$$ for the fix, I *think* I can stick it to the man by keeping the code off the radar for the scan tool emissions test.
1. Warm car up fully.
2. Shut it off, clear code (disconnect battery might work in some cars?).
3. Start car, go get your emmissions test.
Now this is all theory. The logic being that the system only runs when the car is cold and perhaps is only checked when running. And AFAIK, scan tool diagnostics only look for trouble codes, not an exhaustive system test. (pun)
What do you think?


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## SlowMotion (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (mmr159)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mmr159* »_I've had the p0411 for a long time now and share most opinions about the system. Up to 1k repair for an emissions system that runs a couple minutes a day is silly. How much pollution are we really avioding here? I'd love to know the equivalent in, say, an SUV idling at optimal tempurature. Gimme a break.
My fix was a replacing the shot vac line to/from the solenoid.
Anyway, should you find yourself in a tight spot with this CEL and don't have the time/$$$ for the fix, I *think* I can stick it to the man by keeping the code off the radar for the scan tool emissions test.
1. Warm car up fully.
2. Shut it off, clear code (disconnect battery might work in some cars?).
3. Start car, go get your emmissions test.
Now this is all theory. The logic being that the system only runs when the car is cold and perhaps is only checked when running. And AFAIK, scan tool diagnostics only look for trouble codes, not an exhaustive system test. (pun)
What do you think?

You can't clear the codes before taking the car to inspection. when they connect their computer they willl see that you readiness is not set yet and they'll fail your car for that.
As for myself, right now i'm looking for a used kombi valve. I pull out mines tonight hoping for a broken hose, well the hose was in pretty good shape but the kombi valve is not sealing and therefor can't hold vacuum to hold it open.
I'm looking for a used good kombi valve, if anyone have one please lmk.


----------



## EIPTUNedVR6 (Jul 18, 2006)

wow come on guys you should know that p0411 is the most common code on vr's it happens to almost every vr6 and the most fix for blowby is usually the oil pressure swith on the oil canister


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## grateful1 (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: (EIPTUNedVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EIPTUNedVR6* »_wow come on guys you should know that p0411 is the most common code on vr's it happens to almost every vr6 and the most fix for blowby is usually the oil pressure swith on the oil canister

There was a post earlier mentioning the Relay also. ANyone have luck fixing this problem replacing the relay or the oil pressure switch?


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## grateful1 (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (mmr159)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mmr159* »_I've had the p0411 for a long time now and share most opinions about the system. Up to 1k repair for an emissions system that runs a couple minutes a day is silly. How much pollution are we really avioding here? I'd love to know the equivalent in, say, an SUV idling at optimal tempurature. Gimme a break.
My fix was a replacing the shot vac line to/from the solenoid.
Anyway, should you find yourself in a tight spot with this CEL and don't have the time/$$$ for the fix, I *think* I can stick it to the man by keeping the code off the radar for the scan tool emissions test.
1. Warm car up fully.
2. Shut it off, clear code (disconnect battery might work in some cars?).
3. Start car, go get your emmissions test.
Now this is all theory. The logic being that the system only runs when the car is cold and perhaps is only checked when running. And AFAIK, scan tool diagnostics only look for trouble codes, not an exhaustive system test. (pun)
What do you think?

After one or two hot starts, the readiness is passed right? I drove around all day black friday, cleared the code first thing in the morning and didn't ahve it come on till the next day. I had at least 5 or 6 starts throughout the day with no code? Once it sat cold for an extended amount of time it re appeared


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## mmr159 (Jan 4, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (grateful1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *grateful1* »_After one or two hot starts, the readiness is passed right?

I assumed the SAIS would only be checked during cold starts. But if the readiness bit is an indication that everything has been checeked at least once, I guess it could take up to a week of normal driving.
I really hope my light is gone for good.


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## leo_4 (Oct 10, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (mmr159)*

after replacing the pump then the hoses, my cel kept coming back. i was about to replace the solenoid valve before finding out there is a fuse that works the SAI. after many hours of searching, i found it is located (for a '97 Jetta 2.0) behind the battery, under a plastic cover, on the strut tower. after checking, the fuse was missing







. does anyone know what the amp on the fuse is?


_Modified by leo_4 at 1:01 PM 11-30-2006_


----------



## leo_4 (Oct 10, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (leo_4)*


----------



## z33k (Feb 18, 2001)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (leo_4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leo_4* »_







. does anyone know what the amp on the fuse is?


See my post about the middle of the 2nd page of this thread.


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## leo_4 (Oct 10, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (z33k)*

so, 50a fuse it is. now, what type of fuse? i found the relay 111 and i am confused as to where a fuse would be (does it attached to the relay itself?). i guess by me not seeing it that would mean the fuse is not there? you mention, "the metal 'jumper' is the fuse"??? as veedub8422 suggested, if anyone has a pic of the relay 111 that shows where the fuse is, this would help greatly. if no pic is available, descriptive details would do.








after weeks of working on this, i am about to go f'ing crazy...


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## grateful1 (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: (gotissues68)*

Wheres the solenoid located? I have read through this post a few times now and see it menationed, but I don't see any pics of it. 
Can I change this without removing the front end or jacking up the engine?
I'd like to check this and the fuses and relays before I take the car apart.


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## craigt-from-atl (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (leo_4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leo_4* »_so, 50a fuse it is. now, what type of fuse? i found the relay 111 and i am confused as to where a fuse would be (does it attached to the relay itself?). i guess by me not seeing it that would mean the fuse is not there? you mention, "the metal 'jumper' is the fuse"??? as veedub8422 suggested, if anyone has a pic of the relay 111 that shows where the fuse is, this would help greatly. if no pic is available, descriptive details would do.








after weeks of working on this, i am about to go f'ing crazy...










The fuse is a flat piece of metal that goes in-between two screws. The screws are under a little plastic cover in front of the coolant resevoir. Doesn't look like your 'everyday' kinda fuse. Think it can be had for .75 or so at the stealership.


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## leo_4 (Oct 10, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (craigt-from-atl)*

thanks for the feedback!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif. looks like i'm going to pick up a 50amp strip fuse on the way home tonight. i pray this will solve the problem because i can not deal with this damn p0411 cel anymore


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (leo_4)*

this is the only code i have from my vr6 swap. i got everything else sorted.
its funny too because my readiness sets for SAI, but the code is there.


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## veedubboostn (Dec 1, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (jhayesvw)*

just wanted to BIZUMP this thread.... its gonna get through another year of inspections... thanks a ton mate
cheers,
-Jay


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## lazyace (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (veedubboostn)*

Hi all, I just reciently reupdated my DIY post with some pictures of the 111 relay and a strip fuse alternative if you so choose to go that route. The post is located on the second page of this thread. If you have any questions about the SAIS I will be glad to answer them the best I can!! Good luck!!








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=2


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## Bora Lab (Nov 12, 2002)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (lazyace)*

Ive had this code for quite a while and I havent noticed a power problem. Ive checked everything on it; the pump, I did the blow through the pipe check and it worked fine, and I changed the hose when I had the engine out and still the same thing. I just checked the fuse under the hood and it looks fine as well.
But, I noticed that when I clear it, it can go for almost 2 days without coming back on and when it does, it tends to be during decelaration in gear.







Not sure what that means but I thought Id throw in my .02.


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## grateful1 (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (lazyace)*

Much appreciated!


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## lazyace (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (Bora Lab)*

Bora Lab, have you followed my DIY on page two? If none of that works let me know.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=2


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## veedubboostn (Dec 1, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (lazyace)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lazyace* »_Hi all, I just reciently reupdated my DIY post with some pictures of the 111 relay and a strip fuse alternative if you so choose to go that route. The post is located on the second page of this thread. If you have any questions about the SAIS I will be glad to answer them the best I can!! Good luck!!










hey man, your post was the one I needed... I did mine yesterday and it went smoothly...
the VR seems to be faster than ever, and seems to be getting better gas milage as well.... thanks bro
now I can get the damn thing inspected too...








cheers,








-Jay


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## Bora Lab (Nov 12, 2002)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (lazyace)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lazyace* »_Bora Lab, have you followed my DIY on page two? If none of that works let me know.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=2


I havent tried it yet but I will be. That might be my problem.


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## golfgringo (Feb 1, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (lazyace)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lazyace* »_Hi all, I just reciently reupdated my DIY post with some pictures of the 111 relay and a strip fuse alternative if you so choose to go that route. The post is located on the second page of this thread. If you have any questions about the SAIS I will be glad to answer them the best I can!! Good luck!!










Your post is excellent. 
I do need help, tho. I can confirm operation of relay 111, both fusable links, the N112 solenoid [replaced] and the air pumps runs when I power it directly from the battery. The Kombi will not hold vacuum from a hand pump but will open under continuous vaccum from N112 so that I can blow thru it.
So when I start the car, the air pump will not run and it throws the infamous code. It is almost as if it is not getting the signal from the ECU. [I tried to read a voltage change at the pump's power connection and have found none, but my analog voltmeter may not be reliable.]
So where lies the problem: ECU? or possibly the kombi valve's partial functioning?
Here is a couple of














in advance and several more if we ever meet!


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## lazyace (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (golfgringo)*

golfgringo, remember that you only get voltage to the connector for 65 seconds during a cold start (+15 C ... +35 C engine coolant temperature) and after a 20 second delay for 5 seconds during a warm start (up to max. 85 C engine temperature). If you still can't find the voltage, the only thing I think for you to do is start tracing back the wires. First, the ground since that is the easiest and most probable then the B+. Do you have a Bentley repair manual handy for wiring references? If the pump is indeed not running, you are correct, it sounds like there is something wrong with the power signal from the ECU, either in between the relay and the pump or the ECU and the relay. Set your meter to ohm's and start tracing for continuity (with power removed of course!!). Good luck.


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## golfgringo (Feb 1, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (lazyace)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lazyace* »_golfgringo, remember that you only get voltage to the connector for 65 seconds during a cold start (+15 C ... +35 C engine coolant temperature) and after a 20 second delay for 5 seconds during a warm start (up to max. 85 C engine temperature). If you still can't find the voltage, the only thing I think for you to do is start tracing back the wires. First, the ground since that is the easiest and most probable then the B+. Do you have a Bentley repair manual handy for wiring references? If the pump is indeed not running, you are correct, it sounds like there is something wrong with the power signal from the ECU, either in between the relay and the pump or the ECU and the relay. Set your meter to ohm's and start tracing for continuity (with power removed of course!!). Good luck.

tracked it down to no power going thru the fusible link due to corrosion








thanks


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## golfgringo (Feb 1, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (lazyace)*

OK
I have finally fixed this problem after about 20 hours over 2 1/2 weeks! 
The failed components were:
* Kombi valve
* vac line to Kombi valve
* the solenoid [N112]
* 50amp fusible link
* voltage preventing corrosion on the 111 relay and it's fusible link
Yeah that's everything but the pump itself!!!!!!!!!
Because there were some things that were not clear to me from the previous posts, let me attempt to add some more detail.
Yes everything can be done by unbolting the front motor mount and jacking the engine.
*Start here*
Test pump
Remove the harness connector to pump. [You will grow to hate those 'wire release' connectors!] Jumper the terminals on the pump connector directly to the battery. Pay attention to the pos and neg as they are clearly marked on the pump. No need to strain to hear it run, it sounds like a hair dryer at full blast!








If it runs be glad and continue on, if not start looking for one.
Diag sequence w/ VAG-Com:
Don't remove mount or lift engine.
W/ engine off, select engine scan and then output tests. Toggle past injectors and evap control.
Select solenoid [N112] 
you should be able to feel it click when you hold it in your hand. Double check its function by removing the vac line from the T to the solenoid and try to blow thru it. You should be able to blow freely in a pulsing sequence as the VAG activates the valve.
No blow thru or click - bad valve. Replace
Select relay [111]
you should hear it click or feel it w/ your hand. 
no click, remove and clean posts [and receptacle]
still no click - relay bad. replace
you should also hear the air pump run in pulses as the relay clicks.
no pump - check 50 amp fuse in front of 113 relay. replace if bad and definitely SHINE UP ALL CONNECTIONS W/ EMERY CLOTH BEFORE RECONNECTING.
[I used the modded Buss fuse trick that lazyace posts instead of going to the dealer]








If pump doesn't run now and did run when performing test then the wiring btween the relay and pump is bad or the current is not flowing thru the fusible link. Test w/ ohmeter for continuity.
If all tests are positive thus far, then start the car for the first time now. You cannot test the kombi valve remotely, so that is the point of this trial. Pull the hose from the front of the airbox, start the car and listen.
The kombi valve sounds like the oil fill cap is off - the hollow pulsing of air moving thru the valves. It is plenty loud to hear! You can hear it even over [under actually] the hair dryer sound of the pump.
Can't hear the Kombi? Well, you have remove it test it properly.
Now the fun begins - remove the mount and jack up the engine.
Some notes of caution:
1. Make sure that you are using the correct size hex wrench, they are tight and you only get one chance. Those holding the pump are 5 mm and those into the block are 6mm [I think]. You will need the wobble style [ball end] to remove the actual kombi valve bolt. If you strip it by trying it w/ a straight tool, like I did







all is not lost. You can remove the valve from the tube itself by the two other bolts. Like everything else about this job, it is a HUGE pain in the a$$ but can be done.
2. Those 'flexible' ends on the air hose are not flexible.







DO NOT TWIST THEM, squeeze the 'release ring' [another genius piece of engineering] and pull them STRAIGHT out. Hot melt glue and electricians tape work well to repair them when they crack.
3. The pump must come out before the Kombi can be accessed and removed. Try to leave the pump 'out of the way' next to the rad instead of trying to snake it out, which is also a PITA!
OK now you can test the valve. 
Now logic suggests that a vacuum actuated valve should hold vacuum, but not the case here - at least for me. Applying vacuum to the nipple will open the valve and allow for air to flow thru. A hand pump [MityVac] doesn't seem to be the true test here. It would not work w/ the hand pump. It did work, however, when I attached the vacuum hose directly from the T [not the solenoid]. The continuous vacuum from the running engine keeps the valve open and lets you blow thru it w/ your mouth, confirming its operation.
If no flow under vacuum - bad valve replace.
If it flows, reassemble everything and you have fixed your SAI problem.

*Diag Sequence without VAG-com*
Test pump as above
Test Relay [111]
With your jumper wires, clip to the battery and to the posts on the relay - 85 is negative and 86 is positive. With power to the relay, you should hear it click. Confirm function by using volt meter to send ohms accross 30 and 87. If continuity is confirmed, relay is good.
Test fuse [under relay]
A visual inspection is not sufficient here. Disassemble it and clean all contact points. Test continuity w/ ohmeter when reassembled.
Testing solenoid
You should be able to jumper this as well from the battery to confirm blow thru, but I could not readily identify pos and neg so I shyed away from trying. 
The engine, however, will send the correct voltage upon cold start, so merely starting the car and blowing thru [no need to suck fumes into your mouth!] should confirm its function. Still not sure, spend the $10 at the dealership and replace it.
Test Kombi valve
Try sound test above. Then remove and test w/ engine vacuum [as above] if needed.

*Optional but highly recommended:*
Throughout the above procedures you will, no doubt, need some stress relief. Feel free to:
*Stop and slam some beers.
*Find a heavy bag and go nuts
*chase down your wife/ girlfriend








Consider yourself fully intiated and bonded w/ your dub after you have licked this.










_Modified by golfgringo at 1:01 PM 12-22-2006_


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## Ryan Sickles (Mar 10, 2005)

I haven't even started messing with my P0411 code yet, as I can clearly hear the pump kicking on and get adequate suction.
*I do have a question and would kiss the person who answers it*: Someone might've said this earlier, but do the vacuum lines on the SAI system connect to the fuel pres. regulator at any point on the MKIV (as I've got no Bentley manual at my expenditure right now)? The stealership had the head off and I'm almost positive they've got a vacuum line twisted/flattened/cracked which is throwing my P0411 code. But if the vacuum line connects to the fuel pressure regulator, I'm wondering if it would cause my car to throw codes P1237-P1242 (Cyl.[Insert]-Fuel Inj.Circ. Open Circ.), or would it be totally isolated from the SAI issue all-together?
Any help would extremely help me on this one!


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## Ryan Sickles (Mar 10, 2005)

Nevermind on my previous post, I guess the codes could've been caused by the shop turning the ignition without the injectors wired up.

However, does anyone know if a faulty SAI valve would throw the o2 sensor on the cat?


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## 1996blackpassat (Aug 9, 2006)

hey guys, just went through the sai experience myself, it was three months of hell....i replaced the snokel with the valve because of a vacumn leak, took some sandpaper to the fuse to clean it up, replaced the vacumn line and then replaced the relay.....finally im good with no codes.....but i was dealing with multiple symptoms....including low idle i guess due to unmetered air. Not fun but done.


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## B3M3nkey (May 1, 2004)

*Re: (kurtanglevr6)*

bump


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## SlowMotion (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: (B3M3nkey)*

This gad danm SAI is driving me freaking nutz








After replacing the kombi valve with a known good valve, now the darm pump is no turning on.
I changed the 30amp fuse because it was broken, and I thouht that it was the cause for the pump no running. Well the pump is not running like it shoud. I replace the fuse, cleaned and tested the relay which works btw, but the pump is not running during a cold start. It's been fairly a warm december in NJ, but I belive that the pump should still run during a cold start.
As for the hot start, that part works. After shuting it down and letting it sit for a couple of minutes the pump will run for a couple of second like it should.
Any advise on where to look ?
I don't have a cel yet, but that's because I cleared the codes after replacing the fuse and cleaning the relay.


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## Ryan Sickles (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: (hotshotz16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hotshotz16v* »_This gad danm SAI is driving me freaking nutz








After replacing the kombi valve with a known good valve, now the darm pump is no turning on.
I changed the 30amp fuse because it was broken, and I thouht that it was the cause for the pump no running. Well the pump is not running like it shoud. I replace the fuse, cleaned and tested the relay which works btw, but the pump is not running during a cold start. It's been fairly a warm december in NJ, but I belive that the pump should still run during a cold start.
As for the hot start, that part works. After shuting it down and letting it sit for a couple of minutes the pump will run for a couple of second like it should.
Any advise on where to look ?
I don't have a cel yet, but that's because I cleared the codes after replacing the fuse and cleaning the relay.

The other day, I noticed my SAI didn't kick on startup... only after a couple minutes of idle did it want to come on. No codes though...


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## lazyace (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (Ryan Sickles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ryan Sickles* »_
The other day, I noticed my SAI didn't kick on startup... only after a couple minutes of idle did it want to come on. No codes though...









If you tried it durning a cold start (+15 C to +35 coolent temp) and it did not come on for 65 seconds, I would look into the relay a little more or maybe even the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor.


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## SlowMotion (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: (lazyace)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lazyace* »_
If you tried it durning a cold start (+15 C to +35 coolent temp) and it did not come on for 65 seconds, I would look into the relay a little more or maybe even the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor.

I'll be replacing the CTS when I get a chance this week. Early this morning it didn't come with an anbient temperature of 35F, then early this afternoon it didn't start either. I idle the car for like a minute and then when on to move the relay and the wiring harness well that darnm pump started when I started the car again







.
I'll replace the relay since it's only $4 at radio shack.
Anyone knows if the ecu sends voltage to terminals 85 or 86 to switch the relay ?
I need to know to test the ecu signal to the relay.


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## golfgringo (Feb 1, 2006)

*Re: (hotshotz16v)*

From my post on page 2:
Test Relay [111]
With your jumper wires, clip to the battery and to the posts on the relay - 85 is negative and 86 is positive. With power to the relay, you should hear it click. Confirm function by using volt meter to send ohms accross 30 and 87. If continuity is confirmed, relay is good.
Voltage across 85 and 86 closes the relay so that voltage can flow thru 30 to 87 and turn on the solenoid and pump.


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## golfgringo (Feb 1, 2006)

*Re: (hotshotz16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hotshotz16v* »_
I need to know to test the ecu signal to the relay.

I misread above. looks like you are trying to test the signal from the ecu and not the relay itself. Yes, the ecu sends to both sides of the relay. 
If you can confirm the operation of the pump during a hot start, then the ecu signal is fine. [Bentley does have a voltage check at the ecu terminals themselves that I can reserch if you request.] Also seems to me if the CTS is faulty than you should have 'hot start' operation of the pump during a cold start as well.
My experienice is that the SAI system is a finicky bastard altogether,







and that it runs when it wants. As long as it runs someof the time and is not throwing a code you may have actually licked it.


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## SlowMotion (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: (golfgringo)*

thanks 
i notice today that the pump came on after about 1 minute and it only came on for a couple of seconds. This was on a cold start.
When I replace the the CTS I'll post the result.


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## SlowMotion (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: (hotshotz16v)*

*update* 
Replaced the CTS today, and the pump worked like it should








came on after 20 sec and ran for 90 sec.
I'll check it out tomorrow if it fixed the problem.


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## SlowMotion (Jun 9, 2002)

Inrtemently working again.
danm this stupid system.


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## MaSeDoGG (Jan 22, 2004)

my car puts out this code w/ no CEL.... 
i'll read the thread, in its entirety i suppose


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## tciccio (May 12, 2006)

i read the entire thread a couple times. yesterday i received a complete sai. today i'm gonna replace the whole thing. just a question. i know that the kombi valve bolt is really hard to get to with just removing the front end. so how do i jack up the engine? i never jacked up the engine before. it said on the thread with a piece of wood on the jack to balance it out? where do you place the jack?


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## craigt-from-atl (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (tciccio)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tciccio* »_i know that the kombi valve bolt is really hard to get to with just removing the front end. so how do i jack up the engine?

It may be difficult, but it's doable. I replaced mine w/out jacking up the engine. Just had some long allen/hex keys. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tciccio (May 12, 2006)

i replaced the whole unit finally. what a pita it was. i removed the bolt from the kombi valve without jackin up the engine. sounds like a vacuum cleaner when you turn the car on at cold start. never knew what the thing sounded like. how long does it take for the check engine to set off itself?


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## tciccio (May 12, 2006)

will the cel reset itself off? does anyone know?


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## SlowMotion (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: (tciccio)*

it should take like 3 cold start for the cel to reset.


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## tciccio (May 12, 2006)

will the air pump still turn on if the solenoid is malfunctioning?


----------



## lazyace (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (tciccio)*

yes


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## tciccio (May 12, 2006)

*Re: (lazyace)*

today i passed emissions.







i gotta thank you all for your help. without the vortex i probably would have spent 1000 dollars at the dealer getting fixed. instead, i bought the whole sai unit off this dude on the vortex for 70 bucks and fixed it myself. thanks everyone


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: (tciccio)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tciccio* »_today i passed emissions.







i gotta thank you all for your help. without the vortex i probably would have spent 1000 dollars at the dealer getting fixed. instead, i bought the whole sai unit off this dude on the vortex for 70 bucks and fixed it myself. thanks everyone









Great job, man... $70 is a steal for all that stuff! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tciccio (May 12, 2006)

yea i got a good deal on the whole unit. the only hard thing was to removed the bolt on the kombi valve. it was just really hard to get to since i didn't wanna jack up the engine. i just removed the front end and replaced the whole thing.


----------



## Mr_Long (Dec 9, 2003)

Folks,
When start the car in the morning or after a long rest it go all the way up to 2000 - 2200 +/- for a few minutes (5+/-) then it come down to normal idle for about 600 rpm.
Car is smoking as long TPS is plug but if unplugged it smoke stop to come out, I did scan for codes the other day and it gave me a code for Secundary Air pump, I follow up all to do from this post and all hoses and are ok, but cant locate 50 amp fuse and 113 relay.
I'm so confuse with this dam deal because if run the car with TPS plug it run "fine" until get up to stand speed them it start like oscilate, but if run the car w/o TPS it run so reach that do not speed up.
Pls help.......


----------



## z33k (Feb 18, 2001)

*Re: (Mr_Long)*

Sounds like you need the TPS re-calibrated. Do a search for it and you'll find what you need. Your symptoms don't sound related to the SAI code you pulled, but you've got that as well obviously!

Isaac


----------



## golfgringo (Feb 1, 2006)

*Re: (Mr_Long)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr_Long* »_Folks,
but cant locate 50 amp fuse and 113 relay.
Pls help.......

The 113 and 50 amp are on the same module. It is behind the driver head light. The 50 amp 'metal strip' sits in betwee the front screws. There is another 50 amp 'metalstrip' near the coolant overflow resevoir.


----------



## veedubboostn (Dec 1, 2004)

*Re: (tciccio)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tciccio* »_today i passed emissions.







i gotta thank you all for your help. without the vortex i probably would have spent 1000 dollars at the dealer getting fixed. instead, i bought the whole sai unit off this dude on the vortex for 70 bucks and fixed it myself. thanks everyone









yup, I did the same thing, got one off this chap from the "tex", and HOPEFULLY I will be doing it this weekend coming up... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## hansmike (Jun 7, 2006)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

I did it.... I finally did it.... after years of CEL and error code P0411 (my '97 jetta 2.0 has been out of inspection since 11/05, i've been jumping around states and got away with it), I finally figured it out thanks to these forums. Endless hours were spent trying to repair this, dozens of cleared codes to no avail, and it is finally done and 100% working. From what I heard, the main problem were the vacuum hoses, so I replaced every single one of them with no luck. So, the other day I was bored on the internet and thought I'd check out the forums again and someone mentioned to check the fuse near relay 111 (behind driver side headlight). The fuse is just a strip of metal with a clear plastic cover over it. I pull out my voltmeter and sure as hell, the fuse was corroded (not blown) and not letting the 12V pass. So, I cleaned the terminals with a dremel, put a new fuse in, and reset the CEL. It's now been 300 miles, at least a dozen cold starts, no error codes, and all my readiness codes are good to go. I think I may get my car inspected this week








Thanks guys at VWvortex!
Mike


----------



## SlowMotion (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (hansmike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hansmike* »_I did it.... I finally did it.... after years of CEL and error code P0411 (my '97 jetta 2.0 has been out of inspection since 11/05, i've been jumping around states and got away with it), I finally figured it out thanks to these forums. Endless hours were spent trying to repair this, dozens of cleared codes to no avail, and it is finally done and 100% working. From what I heard, the main problem were the vacuum hoses, so I replaced every single one of them with no luck. So, the other day I was bored on the internet and thought I'd check out the forums again and someone mentioned to check the fuse near relay 111 (behind driver side headlight). The fuse is just a strip of metal with a clear plastic cover over it. I pull out my voltmeter and sure as hell, the fuse was corroded (not blown) and not letting the 12V pass. So, I cleaned the terminals with a dremel, put a new fuse in, and reset the CEL. It's now been 300 miles, at least a dozen cold starts, no error codes, and all my readiness codes are good to go. I think I may get my car inspected this week








Thanks guys at VWvortex!
Mike

Glad that you got it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## B3M3nkey (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## z33k (Feb 18, 2001)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow*

My engine is out right now- transmission is being rebuilt.
I've had the SAI issue for awhile now, fixed it temporarily by replacing some hoses and the solenoid last year. 
While I have the engine out I pulled the combi off. It was full of deposits and gunk, which caused it to fail. I verified the failure with a vacuum pump. The valve would not hold a vacuum; the vacuum is what opens the larger valve to allow air into the head. I sprayed brake parts cleaner inside, swished it around a bit, and dumped it out. Lots of the deposits were cleaned out. I did this several times, and now the combi valve works. The actuating valve holds a vacuum, and opens the larger pipe.

The only thing I *don't* know is how the brake cleaner will affect the rubber diaphragm. I suppose I'll know if it fails within a year...

Isaac


----------



## EVIL6 (Apr 20, 2003)

*Re: (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_fixes the following:
check engine lights
replacing maf sensors
replacing o2 sensors (cause you dont actually have to have one)
removal of all egr/secondary air injection who-hah
slow crapilly running unreliable motronic syndrom
lifes solution to bogging/missfiring/complaining about chips
will get you laid

And most important... you can't legally smog your car unless you move out of California or move to smog exempt town in California.


----------



## gratefuldude11 (Jul 4, 2004)

*Re: (EVIL6)*

back to the top, this thread rocks


----------



## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (z33k)*


_Quote, originally posted by *z33k* »_My engine is out right now- transmission is being rebuilt.
I've had the SAI issue for awhile now, fixed it temporarily by replacing some hoses and the solenoid last year. 
While I have the engine out I pulled the combi off. It was full of deposits and gunk, which caused it to fail. I verified the failure with a vacuum pump. The valve would not hold a vacuum; the vacuum is what opens the larger valve to allow air into the head. I sprayed brake parts cleaner inside, swished it around a bit, and dumped it out. Lots of the deposits were cleaned out. I did this several times, and now the combi valve works. The actuating valve holds a vacuum, and opens the larger pipe.

The only thing I *don't* know is how the brake cleaner will affect the rubber diaphragm. I suppose I'll know if it fails within a year...

Isaac


i made a post about cleaning the KOMBI valve a long time ago. 
nobody posted. 
its cool that you have done what i was planning to do.
the carbon gunks up the internals and causes the failure. but it appears that cleaning it can help/fix the issue.
thanks for the heads up.


----------



## gratefuldude11 (Jul 4, 2004)

hey now
i checked under relay 111 in my 98 vr6....no fuse to be found. 
i took it off, no place to put a fuse.......am i missing something?
theres only 2 fuses next to each other by the ABS. 
when the reader disp[layed my problem it told me to check the fuse. i cant find the fuse. someone help me out please


----------



## gratefuldude11 (Jul 4, 2004)

i found the 50amp metal fuse strip. 
some searching through this thread made feel dumb! it was right there te whole time......
anyways, it was corroded. still attached and lookin good. 
i cleaned it, cleaned the connections, tested for power at both terminals, checked for power on the actual fuse....cranking 14.8 like the battery. 
all my vaccuum lines are fine. not corroded, look brand new almost. 
the pump turns on, its quiet but i can hear it if i try. 
what would that cancel out(all that info) and where do i go next?


----------



## lazyace (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (gratefuldude11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gratefuldude11* »_i found the 50amp metal fuse strip. 
some searching through this thread made feel dumb! it was right there te whole time......
anyways, it was corroded. still attached and lookin good. 
i cleaned it, cleaned the connections, tested for power at both terminals, checked for power on the actual fuse....cranking 14.8 like the battery. 
all my vaccuum lines are fine. not corroded, look brand new almost. 
the pump turns on, its quiet but i can hear it if i try. 
what would that cancel out(all that info) and where do i go next?

Have you tried either clearing the codes or removing the neg battery cable for a few minutes and driving around for a few hours?


----------



## gratefuldude11 (Jul 4, 2004)

this morning it didnt kick on. 
then it did after 2 minutes. 
im gonna replace the soloneid today.


----------



## gratefuldude11 (Jul 4, 2004)

*Re: (gratefuldude11)*

ok
new soloneid in








8.39 at my dealer, good stuff. 
old soloneid(PO said he replaced it, i believe he did 100% great guy) but it was shot. 
fired her up after letting it sit for 6 hours, system kicked right on, no delay. CEL still on though. 
im going to reset it tommorow morning...if it comes back on, time to make that combi valve my bitch.


----------



## z33k (Feb 18, 2001)

*Re: (gratefuldude11)*

The code may take several days to clear. I'd wait to see if you really need to drop the $200. Also, see my post earlier in this thread for a procedure to clean out the valve rather than replace.

Isaac


----------



## gratefuldude11 (Jul 4, 2004)

*Re: (z33k)*

hey dude, i saw yourpost.....this has been the most in depth beneficial thread ive come across that identifys my vw problems








yeah, im going to give it a week(about 3 or 4 more days) before i go after and clean the piss out of the combi.


----------



## gratefuldude11 (Jul 4, 2004)

kight came back on after a few days 
i manually turned it off. 
DOH!
this week, combi valve teardown.


----------



## 1bad16V (Sep 14, 1999)

I either have a stuck vacuum hose going from the solenoid to the kombi or i have a dirty stuck kombi... This thread is great, dled me a copy of freeware vag-com, plugged my cheapo cable inand got the code that led me here.. now to schedule some time to clean the valve. I can't believe the whole system costs close to 1000 to replace and all it does is warm the cat up a little faster during cold idling... for five seconds... sheesh..


----------



## masonr (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: (Soren)*

just wondering if you could explain or agree with this quick overview of the use of these parts.
SAIR Pump - Pump warm air into the intake manifold via the combi 
valve
SAIR Combi-Valve - Get warm air from the pump but only opens 
when there is a vacuum from the solenoid

SAIR Solenoid - Get a vacuum (not sure from where) and the 
vacuum of air opens the combi valve, which then allows the 
pumped air to pass through the combi and go to the intake 
manifold
thanks for the help, i have had the problem for about 6 months and just fell into this forum last night.....awesome work


----------



## 1bad16V (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (masonr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *masonr* »_just wondering if you could explain or agree with this quick overview of the use of these parts.
SAIR Pump - Pump warm air into the intake manifold via the combi 
valve
SAIR Combi-Valve - Get warm air from the pump but only opens 
when there is a vacuum from the solenoid

SAIR Solenoid - Get a vacuum (not sure from where) and the 
vacuum of air opens the combi valve, which then allows the 
pumped air to pass through the combi and go to the intake 
manifold


Actually it should be:
SAIR Pump - Pumps fresh air into the exhaust manifold. 
SAIR Combi-Valve - Controls flow of fresh air into the exhaust manifold when vacuum is applied

SAIR Solenoid - Controls the vacuum to the kombi valve, vacuum is sourced from the intake manifold. 
The purpose behind the whole thing is to get extra oxygen into the exhaust stream to help heat the catylitic converter faster... that's it. The OBD expects to see a 'lean' condition from one of the O2 sensors when the pump runs... if it doesn't it trips the code.


----------



## masonr (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: (1bad16V)*

well my car is regisering the code for the PO411 and P0140 (Oxygen sensor no activity detected bank 1 sensor 2). The oxygen sensors were just replaced. I don't think that the 2nd o2 sensor is bad because i erased the codes and it came back the code for the 2nd o2 sensor with low voltage. 
i just got techtonics catalytic converter (high flow) hopefully this helps with the 02 sensor, however i am wondering if the po411 code is affecting the p0140 code. any ideas??


----------



## SmartAssRacingTeam (Jan 8, 2003)

*Re:*

Nice write up guys!








I had the pinched vacuum line and had no idea where it went to, since the pics in the Bentley are vague. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that cleaning up these items works to fix it. Even with my discount at the dealer...


----------



## masonr (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: (gotissues68)*

just wondering where you got the solenoid valve for like $8.00. The dealer sells them for 80. 
thanks, any help would be greatly appreciated


----------



## ThatGuy (Jan 28, 2004)

*Re: (masonr)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## masonr (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: (masonr)*

also is the solenoid valve the same as the purge valve?? how about the EGR Solenoid?? thanks
http://www.discountvdubparts.c....html
this site has a purge valve under Air Intake but i wasn't sure if this was the same as the solenoid
i live in hawaii and everyone (the dealers) wants about 90. none of the car parts stores (napa, checkers, and so forth) have the part.


----------



## jetdavdub (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: (masonr)*

what happens other than a CEL if you take this system out? I've read many different things. You guys would mostly know.


----------



## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (jetdavdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jetdavdub* »_what happens other than a CEL if you take this system out? I've read many different things. You guys would mostly know.

the CEL will stay on forever.


----------



## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (z33k)*


_Quote, originally posted by *z33k* »_The code may take several days to clear. I'd wait to see if you really need to drop the $200. Also, see my post earlier in this thread for a procedure to clean out the valve rather than replace.

Isaac

im cleaning my kombi out with simple green tomorrow and installing it soon.


----------



## joedubs (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: (jhayesvw)*

since this seems to be THE post for this problem... i figured i would bring it back from the dead for some input.
theres a lot of talk about the solenoid being a sub $20 part... 1stvwparts.com shows it having an MSRP of $67.something. where do i go to get it for 8.25???


----------



## SlowMotion (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: (corrado-joe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *corrado-joe* »_since this seems to be THE post for this problem... i figured i would bring it back from the dead for some input.
theres a lot of talk about the solenoid being a sub $20 part... 1stvwparts.com shows it having an MSRP of $67.something. where do i go to get it for 8.25???

Then you're looking at the wrong part.
just pull your solenoid from under the manifold and take it to the dealer and have him match the numbers. I paid $11 for it.


----------



## lazyace (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (SlowMotion)*

I see in ETKA that part being part # 191 906 283 a.


----------



## joedubs (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: (lazyace)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lazyace* »_I see in ETKA that part being part # 191 906 283 a.

search that part number on 1stvwparts.com... comes up w/ an msrp of $67.63, and a price of $49.51... if i'm not mistaken, 1stvwparts IS a dealer, so going to my local stealership wont get me much further than that. unless the part number(s) that i've looked up are ALL wrong, the part it lists for that is correct:
"191906283A $67.63 $0.00 $49.51
Emission system - A.i.r. system - Solenoid
Solenoid, jetta 1996 - 1999"


----------



## 94expload (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: (corrado-joe)*

Ok so why does every one say that the N112 valve, or solenoid is only 8.00? is there a super seded part number? I call my steeler ship, and read the part number off the side to him, he said it was 100.00...Anybody, please help...Ide love to get this fixed tomorrow...Also if anyone has a used one in mass area, let me know!!
I hate that P0411 code...So far, i got the valve behind the air box working, but this one is sezzed! I put 12volts to it, and noting! And it has cracks in it...Bad...I can test the combi valve yet, hope that is ok!!
reading again, there has to be different part numbers...mine is close to that but a 206..
so what is the part number for the inexpensive one? im going there tomorrow, i'll find out...i hope this guy helps, or i'll go to the northampton one..


_Modified by 94expload at 8:05 PM 7-6-2007_


----------



## mr.gti (Feb 25, 2003)

*Re: (94expload)*

i fixed my problem P0411 code...its was a bad solenoid ....make sure all the boys here having same problem, take out the solenoid and blow on it. if you cant the solenoid is bad...i bought my solenoid for 40 bucks from the dealer...



_Modified by mr.gti at 7:38 AM 7-7-2007_


----------



## thecreeper (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: (94expload)*

The right part number is 191906283A. I just punched it into IMPEX's website and it comes up for $64.25. I just bought this at my local dealer back in February of this year for 9 bucks and change - if I had know the price would have increased by $55 I would have stocked up...this is absolutely nuts.


----------



## 94expload (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: (thecreeper)*

Yeah tell me about it, just like VW to up a product when they see a need for it...They got to re-coup something for the mistakes they have made, and paid for...?!?!?
Just like the power window reg's! i got another bad one!
Any ways, anyone got one around mass? or CT


----------



## 94expload (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: (94expload)*

???


----------



## shifty.org (May 10, 2005)

Man, now I get to attack this one - and right before emissions must be done (registration is due by Monday).
Looks like my weekend just went to hell fast. All this just after had some work done to the car.
Would be cool if somoene had solid pics of this process for a MK4


----------



## shifty.org (May 10, 2005)

Thanks for posting this! I am crossing my fingers, it looks like I solved the problem. I ran through readiness testing, and managed to come out on the other side with no codes, all ready (even SAI), all modules appear to be passed.
I started out by popping off relay #100 and bridging the 85 and 86 pin....SAI pump (or whatever) spun up w/o problem.
Checked the large diameter plastic hoses, all are attached and look fine. 
When looking up under the front of the car, I noticed that all of the short cloth-wrapped vacuum lines starting at the big plastic black bubble (whatever the hell is that?) and heading up (through all of the T's)
After replacing all of that hose (no disassembly of front bumper or other crap required), readiness is OK after testing with VAG-COM. If she stays code-free until I can make it to the emissions station tomorrow, I might actually be able to pass my second pass at emissions .
I wish I would have read that you can't just clear codes before going in, or I might have passed the first time


----------



## 94expload (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: (shifty.org)*

Well i did it as well. I replaced my N112 valve, and got my other vlave working...the hoses were fine...kombi vavle fine...for now...went 4 days no code popped off! went and got my sticker!! no problem!!
My air pump is quiet again!! no back pressure! im happy! thanks guys!


----------



## techgrad03 (Feb 5, 2004)

*Price*

Anyone ever figure anything out about the price? I am going to go in and replace the kombi, but figured would just replace the solenoid while I was in there since it is so cheap - only now it is being quoted to me at $80 from the stealership...Can't find it anywhere else either. Anyone have a cheap source?


----------



## SlowMotion (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: Price (techgrad03)*

Danm they did increase the price http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif








If you have a MKIII there's another valve which is the same on the car. It's located behind the coolant bottle, right on the firewall.
It provides the a/c vacumm for the recirculation valve http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
If you need a quick fix you can use that one for the moment.


----------



## o0bur (Aug 16, 2006)

Musical Horns!!!


----------



## 94expload (Jun 21, 2007)

*Re: (o0bur)*

Hey good call on the one behind the water bottle!! did not know that one! is it the same? part number and all? lol
Yeah its great to get this going after all the time spent down and out with the CEL light on and off!


----------



## golf-mk3 (Jan 27, 2007)

*Re: (gratefuldude11)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Rider_X (Jun 11, 2004)

bumping this up. 
I replaced my vacuum hoses, runs better, mainly because the hose that ran to the kombi was half gone, and the hose running from the solenoid to the T was connected to the wrong nipple (according to the bentley: http://img.photobucket.com/alb...1.jpg). I erased the code and after a day and a half the code popped up again tonight... and I have to smog my car before early next week. Luckily, I noticed the 50 Amp Strip fuse is blown with a tear down the center. Im hoping to replace it and all be well... But Im also hoping that if its not entirely the issue, that the solenoid is the issue and that I can replace that cheaply through the dealer. 
I kind of did the kombi valve vacuum test but I couldn't really tell if I was doing it right or if I was getting good results. The kombi valve was kind of dirty aswell when I replaced the hose but I somewhat wiped it clean, somewhat... so Im hoping that things go well tomorrow, gotta track down a strip fuse. Im not very fond of waiting for the code to pop up either. Any way to hurry the "readiness" up?










_Modified by Rider_X at 8:36 PM 10-25-2007_


----------



## masonr (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: (Surf Green) taking apart the combi valve (yes/no)*

Did you take apart the combi valve to do this? I tried your method, at least i took the combi off the car and tried the carb cleaner. However the valve i believe is still stuck. Just wondering if you took it apart or if anyone has ever attempted this. I don't want to have to pull the thing off more than once (since i have taken it off and put it back on before). So i would prefer to just buy it if taking it apart will ruin it but i use it as a daily driver so i have to either order the part or try and fix it in one night. thanks for any help


----------



## masonr (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

Just wondering if the combi can be taken apart or if anyone has ever attempted this. I don't want to have to pull the thing off more than once (since i have taken it off and put it back on before). So i would prefer to just buy it if taking it apart will ruin it but i use it as a daily driver so i have to either order the part or try and fix it in one night. thanks for any help.


----------



## Rider_X (Jun 11, 2004)

solenoid valve goes for 81.XX at Barber in Ventura... forget if thats with or without tax but thats no 11 dollars... prices seems to have gone up...


----------



## Rider_X (Jun 11, 2004)

great, so i just tested my solenoid valve and it works... that means that its either the combi or the SAI pump itself... the two most expensive parts. Im gonna try and go through some other tests but im gonna go to purchase a used combi that works just in case. wish me luck i seriously need this working by tomorrow!


----------



## Rider_X (Jun 11, 2004)

so, i went ahead and tested a few more things, I couldnt tell if the combi was working or not so i waited on that. I tested the 111 relay, to see if it clicked but couldnt check for continuity, it did. I then went ahead and checked the pump its self... it didnt turn on. not bad tho because i picked one up earlier for 65 bucks, made sure to check if that one worked and it does. So instead of doing the engine lift trick, i just took the entire front end off and replaced it. Now Im in a predicament. 
I need to smog inspect my car before the 1st, been busy with other things so it has been my priority since early last week but because of erasing the codes the "readiness" process takes me atleast 1.5 days, Im worried i dont have that time for this to work its way through if i erase the code. Should I 1) Erase the code and hope its taken care of before the 1st? or 2) Let the car clear the code itself (it can do that right?) Please some one let me know, If I erase it myself, ill need to do it tonight to give me enough time for the readiness process. Thanks.


----------



## Rider_X (Jun 11, 2004)

bump


----------



## Rider_X (Jun 11, 2004)

fixed it. the pump/blower was the problem. The readiness is all done, except for the evap system but i should pass smog tomorrow! yes.


----------



## zootsuit7 (Nov 10, 2007)

I never found a replacement for that hard plastic hose that goes from SAI pump to combination valve - so I made my own. Reused the fancy VW connectors and found some plastic ribbed tube similar to the original. Works good.


_Modified by zootsuit7 at 12:41 AM 12-28-2007_


----------



## zootsuit7 (Nov 10, 2007)

*Re: (zootsuit7)*

Found SAI Relay '111' 70 amp 'automotive type' relay from Mouser electronics $4.50 + $4.00 shipping







works good 1 month no CEL
edit: > 1 year relay still works 15000 miles


_Modified by zootsuit7 at 12:56 AM 4/29/2009_


----------



## S3-4ttro (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: (Ricky Bobby)*

TTT, great info.


----------



## knrao75 (Mar 9, 2008)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

Thanks for your update on this. I will look at it this week.


----------



## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

Oh hey, it's this thread. Hello, old friend.


----------



## knrao75 (Mar 9, 2008)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

Hi
Thanks for your help. I was thinking to fix this issue, but the check symbol is gone and it doesn't appear on screen. Do I still need to do any thing or watch for symbol again. This 2nd time symbol come and be there for few days disappear. Please provide me information if any one else experience same problem earlier.
Appricate a your help. Thanks.


----------



## gfindon (Jan 25, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (ihaveavr6)*

That's exactly what happened to me - hit a bump, CEL comes on, DTC was the infamous P0411. Going to try to get her on a lift Friday nite to see if the hose is salvageable (and just stuck/pinched, maybe I can turn it loose). Thanks everyone!


----------



## Cubix (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (gfindon)*

i hate this pos system.......
I just failed emissions for it
ugh


----------



## Cubix (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (Cubix)*









Is that the solenoid????
There is NO way I'm paying over 10 bucks for this.


----------



## dilumari (Jan 26, 2008)

anyone know what I would have to ask the autozone/napa guys for the vacuum tube? Any specific size, material?


----------



## Cubix (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: (dilumari)*









I just went to VW and got some of their OE tubing
Some notes about testing the solenoid (with it completely off the car
A vacuum won't be held when attaching the tubing to the *lower* pipe, however, you should notice that the gauge will raise and then lower. This is because there is a small air filter in the top of the cap which allows air to come in.
*Video of applying vacuum NO voltage*
http://s202.photobucket.com/al...1.flv 
As you apply voltage, the gauge shouldn't raise at all, until you stick your finger on the *upper* pipe, then it should hold a vacuum. remove voltage and the vacuum should disappear.
*Video of applying vacuum WITH voltage*
http://s202.photobucket.com/al...2.flv 

edit: mixed up tubes
edit: Added videos

_Modified by Cubix at 10:06 PM 3-25-2008_ 

_Modified by Cubix at 10:10 PM 3-25-2008_

_Modified by Cubix at 10:11 PM 3-25-2008_


_Modified by Cubix at 10:16 PM 3-25-2008_


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## dilumari (Jan 26, 2008)

sure man, post a link of the video.


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## Cubix (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: (dilumari)*

Posted the video
and a picture showing which hose goes where on the solenoid
Hope it makes testing easier
Enjoy!


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## dilumari (Jan 26, 2008)

thanks bro. Do you know what hose or tube that is the most common to crack and need to be replaced? If you can help me with the dimensions or whatnot I can just go to autozone or something and buy it and then just install it without going back and forth with it if you get what i'm saying..


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## lazyace (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (dilumari)*

On the second page of this post is says "4mm (5/32in."


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## vr fix (Aug 7, 2006)

i need to get p0411 fixed, vagcom says incorrect flow... and its never ready under readiness.. any ideas? 
cept in the morning i hear the pump turn on and it raises the rpm with the hot cam sound... 
??


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## Cubix (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: (vr fix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr fix* »_i need to get p0411 fixed, vagcom says incorrect flow... and its never ready under readiness.. any ideas? 
cept in the morning i hear the pump turn on and it raises the rpm with the hot cam sound... 
??

Read almost any page of this thread?
....








Test the solonoid, I just posted how to + videos seriously a few posts above you
Test the combi
But first check the strip fuse behind the diver side headlight
....
oh and
Read almost any page of this threadx2


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## lazyace (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (Cubix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cubix* »_








oh and
Read almost any page of this threadx2


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: (lazyace)*















amazing


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## warrenW (Jan 22, 2008)

my p0411 doesnt come on when i turn the car on...sometimes its random/when its already warmed up.
so, i just clear the code and wait and it comes on 400 miles later. only happened twice in the past 2 days though, never had a problem with it previously.
i just spent too much money replacing my ignition switch and crank position sensor (cps would open the circuit when the engine had warmed up, so the engine would crank, but no fuel or spark) so i dont have the money to replace all this stuff to fix the p0411 code (yeah, i read like, to page 5 and skipped to the last one)
i mean if its a hose, then great ill replace it but if its some 200 dollar part i just dont have the money.
so if it only runs for like 30 seconds a day then i dont see any reason to replace it until it comes time for my smog check which is over a year and a half away.


_Modified by warrenW at 3:45 PM 4-5-2008_


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## dilumari (Jan 26, 2008)

*Re: (warrenW)*

well, i think most of us are just worried about passing emissions test. If the SAI weren't necessary to pass it, then I wouldn't care less about it. Some people who went turbo deleted it (might not be environmentally friendly though) and tweaked the ECU so it doesn't pop CEL.


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## warrenW (Jan 22, 2008)

well, i guess i have over a year that i dont really have to worry about it then. lol.


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## Cubix (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: (warrenW)*

What I realized is that when the SAI code comes up, the engine ignores the o2 sensors and other various things, and could affect you mpg and engine power
I noticed a good increase in gas mileage once i got the unit working and the readiness codes came back on


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: (warrenW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *warrenW* »_well, i guess i have over a year that i dont really have to worry about it then. lol.

Why don't you do a little troubleshooting to narrow it down? If it's only the $10 solenoid, you'll be kicking yourself when your SAI pump($$$) burns out because it was pushing air into a closed kombi valve like mine was for a year!
Just remember, if you hear the pump run MOST of the components are WORKING and your biggest worry is the kombi valve, which isn't really THAT prone to failing. It's usually the vac line or the solenoid.


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## Cubix (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: (Soren)*

Solenoid is actually 80+ dollars now, not 10


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## dilumari (Jan 26, 2008)

*Re: (Cubix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cubix* »_What I realized is that when the SAI code comes up, the engine ignores the o2 sensors and other various things, and could affect you mpg and engine power
I noticed a good increase in gas mileage once i got the unit working and the readiness codes came back on

hmmm.. really?? then i really need to get this done.. hopefully next weekend..


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: (Cubix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cubix* »_Solenoid is actually 80+ dollars now, not 10


WHAT???








Holy jeebus. I knew I should've bought two.
Oh well, I'm sure one of us enterprising young lads could source a generic solenoid to fit this application with a little wire and hose splicing. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
My mk3 will be with me FOREVER!!








Edit: Page 8!


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## warrenW (Jan 22, 2008)

*Re: (Cubix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cubix* »_What I realized is that when the SAI code comes up, the engine ignores the o2 sensors and other various things, and could affect you mpg and engine power
I noticed a good increase in gas mileage once i got the unit working and the readiness codes came back on

uh the p0411 code doesnt necessarily mean its SAI, right?
and for something that only works for say 30 seconds, why would it continue to ignore these readings?
and my p0411 code has never come up upon start up...like today, it came up 30 minutes after i turned it on.
sooo...idk....


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## Cubix (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: (warrenW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *warrenW* »_
and for something that only works for say 30 seconds, why would it continue to ignore these readings?
and my p0411 code has never come up upon start up...like today, it came up 30 minutes after i turned it on.
sooo...idk....

Because thats how VW likes it. You'll notice that once SAI is failed/incomplete, it keeps the rest of the sensors as the same status. Once I fixed the strip fuse, which is what turned out to be the problem, the whole car went into full readiness.
Mine would sometimes come up a bit after start up, it's strange, sometimes it didn't come up for a couple hundred miles, sometimes right away.


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## warrenW (Jan 22, 2008)

if i keep clearing the code until i figure out what the problem is, as long as ive cleared the code then all my sensors start working again right?
because im still getting good highway gas mileage...


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## jda487 (Apr 10, 2008)

Hi there, 
VR6 noob here... I've read through this thread pretty quickly but didn't see an answer to this one (I might have just missed it):
What does the SAI do? I have a P0411 CEL code but if I use a resistor fix to trick the ECU into thinking this is fixed, will it effect my performance?
I just picked up my 97 Golf VR6 and it drove great for a couple weeks then the CEL came on. Since then the car has still been driving great but ODB scans a P0411 and a P0420 (I think). From what I've read you can use resistors to trick the ECU into thinking the sensor readings are correct but I've been getting terrible gas mileage lately. Could this be the cause? Will a resistor fix correct the gas mileage?
Thanks!
(( Sorry if I am asking questions with answers posted somewhere obvious ))


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## Cubix (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: (jda487)*

If there was a resistor fix for the vr... I sure as hell would've done it before pulling apart the entire system...


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## warrenW (Jan 22, 2008)

as far as i know, as long as you clear the p0411 code it shouldnt effect performance/gas mileage. at least, it hasnt for me. im still getting 32 mpg at 70 mph, just like i was before.
of course, i could be wrong though...
a resistor fix would be amazing for a system that runs for only 30 seconds at startup.


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## Cubix (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: (warrenW)*

clearing the code requires the readiness to reset, it'll be fine if the code didn't come on for a few thousand miles, but sometimes it'll come right back and the ecu will never be ready.


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## warrenW (Jan 22, 2008)

mine doesnt come back on right away...usually like 2 days later. and i drive every day for about an hour... 2 or 3 days.


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## Cubix (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: (warrenW)*

just start checking the basics and find the problem. it might be an easy fix
you barely even have to take anything off
I pulled the intake pipe to the motor from the air box and tried blowing in it, wasn't able to, applied vacuum to combi, was able to blow in. 
Tested motor via electrical leads from battery
Tested solenoid as per video on my previous post
Found bad strip fuse after all that
And I was able to do all this in 20 minutes without taking a single body part off.


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## jda487 (Apr 10, 2008)

Thanks for the responses... I seem to have misunderstood about doing a resistor fix.
Another thread (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2650935&page=6) on the problem suggested an aftermarket chip from Reflex Tuning (http://www.reflextuning.com/mk3content/mk3products/vr6chip/vr6chip.html) which software deletes the O2 sensor and the SAI. At $199 I am thinking it is well worth it. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks!


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: (Cubix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cubix* »_just start checking the basics and find the problem. it might be an easy fix
you barely even have to take anything off
I pulled the intake pipe to the motor from the air box and tried blowing in it, wasn't able to, applied vacuum to combi, was able to blow in. 
Tested motor via electrical leads from battery
Tested solenoid as per video on my previous post
Found bad strip fuse after all that
And I was able to do all this in 20 minutes without taking a single body part off.


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Exactly, it is SO not painful to diagnose SAI issues. Especially after *reading* this thread!


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: (jda487)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jda487* »_Thanks for the responses... I seem to have misunderstood about doing a resistor fix.
Another thread (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2650935&page=6) on the problem suggested an aftermarket chip from Reflex Tuning (http://www.reflextuning.com/mk3content/mk3products/vr6chip/vr6chip.html) which software deletes the O2 sensor and the SAI. At $199 I am thinking it is well worth it. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks!


I haven't heard of anyone who has done that... But if C2 made it, it's probably pretty good and most likely does what it says. I would just fix the SAI system if you already have another vendor's (like GIAC) chip or plan to go FI down the road...


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## jda487 (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: (Soren)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soren* »_
I haven't heard of anyone who has done that... But if C2 made it, it's probably pretty good and most likely does what it says. I would just fix the SAI system if you already have another vendor's (like GIAC) chip or plan to go FI down the road...

I'm going to give it a quick shot at diagnosis and if it isn't something quick like a fuse or leaky line I'll probably end up going the chip method. TBH, if the whole system doesn't work well to begin with how long is it going to be before it fails again?
I don't plan on going FI any time soon and I don't have a chip yet so this might be a kill-two-birds type operation.
Thanks for the responses!


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## kyo_clone (Apr 14, 2008)

*Re: (jda487)*

is there a air intake systemn that replaces the 2ndry air injector pump?


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## JettSonic (Oct 16, 2007)

*Re: (kyo_clone)*

Recently got CEL with P0411, So as I can see most vr6 have this problem, Thinking to replace the solenoid, My question is: can i do that without to take out the front bumper and rad support.


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## jda487 (Apr 10, 2008)

I cleared the SAI CEL about a week ago and it hasn't come back on yet... a bit better mileage but that doesn't mean much as I have a fouled MAS








Still waiting for my C2 chip from Reflex to be delivered, as well as my new MAF.


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## Cubix (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: (JettSonic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettSonic* »_Recently got CEL with P0411, So as I can see most vr6 have this problem, Thinking to replace the solenoid, My question is: can i do that without to take out the front bumper and rad support.


yes
read my post a page or two back

test the solenoid before replacing....


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## mnvwmd (Jun 25, 2007)

*Re: (Soren)*

Just replaced the fuse strip, it was cracked. 
Then reset the CEL with a scan tool.
Upon a cool start, I heard a whine from the area of the SAI pump for about 30 seconds, then stopped. 
I could not feel any air being drawn in the hose from the airbox.
Is this a bad sign? I didn't try to blow in the pipe to check the solenoid/valve position.
Wonder how long before the CEL comes on again...
Any thoughts about the "whine". What sound does a normal pump make?


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: (mnvwmd)*

It does make a more pronounced whine when it's blowing into a closed kombi valve. Try bypassing the little solenoid to send constant vacuum straight to the kombi valve and try to blow through the breather hose. Sounds like you already know that most of the system is working. Now it's down to either broken/pinched vac line running to combi, a gunked up kombi, or a failed solenoid.


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## mnvwmd (Jun 25, 2007)

*Re: (Soren)*

These posts are amazingly helpful.
I heard the whine when I turned the key, but upon starting the engine
I could hear internal engine noises as were described, and feel air flow drawn into the airbox hose.
All this just from replacing the cracked 50amp fuse strip.
I'm still not holding my breath for the CEL...


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## VDUBVR684 (Nov 8, 2007)

*Re: (mnvwmd)*

yeah this is or was very helpful. i took my front-end off and found that that plastic piece was broken and the little one that runs to the combi valve was completelty deteriorated.easy fix. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jda487 (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: (jda487)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jda487* »_I cleared the SAI CEL about a week ago and it hasn't come back on yet... a bit better mileage but that doesn't mean much as I have a fouled MAS








Still waiting for my C2 chip from Reflex to be delivered, as well as my new MAF.

C2 chip delivered and installed. No CEL and readiness is passed. Car drives better than ever, I can't recommend this highly enough.
http://reflextuning.com/mk3con....html


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## mnvwmd (Jun 25, 2007)

*sorting it out*

So far:
Replaced 50amp fuse link
Jumper wires to fan = runs fine
Tested Relay 111 = clicks, + continuity
Airbox hose: can hear internal engine noises at startup.
Can't really blow through, though. 
Can feel suction, then I unhooked the fan power = loss of suction.
So, can someone make sense of this?
Why can I hear internal noises through the airbox hose (combi valve, right?) and feel suction (fan) if my solenoid is shot?
Help!


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## VW Acolyte (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

hmm, gona have to scan the car again and see if that is the code i have.


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## mnvwmd (Jun 25, 2007)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (VW Acolyte)*

Lazy and frustrated. Don't want to have to jack up the engine to get to the last piece of vacuum tubing...but just got the code again.


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## masonr (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: (Cubix)*

regarding your post that you found the p0411 code throwing off the engines readings on the o2 sensors. Did you have more codes along with the p0411 code. i have been dealing with both code p0411 and po140 (which says there is no activity in sensor 2 bank 1) i wondered if it was from the p0411 code except i finally fixed the p0411 code but the other keeps popping up. any advice?? oh yea the 02 sensor is fairly new.


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

A friend has been getting this code for years on a 98 VR. They did the smog test with rollers last time, but now require a good scan. He's at the point of having to park it. 
We both read this entire thread, and went through all the tests. The thing is that the SAI seems to work perfectly, except for throwing the code. 
The pump works when it should, the valve opens when it should, etc. The blow tests are good. I just don't get it. He finally took it to the dealer, and they want to replace the ECU (at an outrageous cost). 
Is there anything else we can check? Does anyone know what the actual resistance values of all the components having electrical connectors should be for a 98? I'm thinking that the ECU might be failing it for something silly like that.
Any/all ideas appreciated.


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## vr6solo81 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

nice write up...good info


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## masonr (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: (o2bad455)*

so you guys pulled the kombi and took it apart and checked the valve? I replaced a lot of the parts on my sai system and it ended up being (well the hoses of course) and the kombi valve was stuck. Replaced it and now it runs great. There is only a subtle difference between the "wet/dry vaccuum" cleaner sound you get when the system isn't working right and when it is working right. If you are standing by the engine i don't know that you will be able to tell however if you are in the car with the doors shut you should be able to discern if it is too loud. Personally i would make sure you kombi is working....


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: (masonr)*

Yes. Valve was actually quite clean (too clean??). He wants to start replacing stuff even though it all seems good. Anyone know if the SAI parts (everything except ECU) can be swapped between his 98 OBD2 and a 95 OBD1? They do look slightly different, but should all have the same functions, right?


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## LittleGreenMonster (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: (o2bad455)*

I'm a bit of a noob to this whole posting thing but I needed to ask a question.
Does anyone know if this system works the same on the MKIV 1.8T engine?







I was checking my codes this weekend (I've been fighting a CEL for some time now) and found a P0411 - along with my standard P0172







My O2 sensors are pretty new, I replaced them within the past year.
Any advice on either code would be helpful!
Thanks all!!


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## vr6solo81 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

Ive had to replace the sai pump used but rebuild $60 and the combi valve new $225 just so that i can pass inspection......no check engine yet ...one of my friends that works on performance shop told me that when they do engines swaps or just replacing the vr6 engine for a newer one ,they take all that junk out and no check engine light pops out .... anyone ever heard of this ...all i keep hearing about is people taping the holes but check engine light pops out ...im sure theres some technique behind this ...


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## VdubElmer (Feb 4, 2008)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (vr6solo81)*

The vaccum hose that went under the intake manifold on my 97 Jetta VR6 was corroded to the point where i touched it and it snapped. I took the front end apart to move the radiator and took off the SAI valve attached to the head to change the hose with some standard vaccum hose and have had no problem since. there's no CEL for the p0411 and the pumps much quieter and comes on less often. It was like a 2 dollar fix







I jacked the engine up a little too but i dont think you gotta do that if the whole front ends off


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## dan_i (Sep 2, 2008)

I recently had this error come up on my 1999 Cabriolet. Unfortunately, I'm not quite capable of doing these things on my own, and my regular shop wants to simply replace the secondary air pump and valve (rather than going through the different tests for a cheaper fix that people have detailed in this awesome thread). Anyone have a suggestion for someone in the DC area that could help out? I just need to pass inspection.... Thanks!
(And if this type of post is inappropriate, please let me know. I've already contacted the closest person in the list of Cap. Area mechanics in the forum, but want to see if there's any other options.) Thanks again!


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## JF1283MK3VR6 (Mar 21, 2007)

alot of you are ignoring the guys post about the e-prom from c2motorsports. It is not very difficult to install (there is a diy floating around) and Once the chip is installed you will NEVER have to replace an SAI component again). I am waiting on a response from them to see if they will custom burn me a chip with my current setup (they mention that any change in compression will mean something more specific). Hope that helps...
P.S. I am a licensed state inspector and do state inspections all the time. If the components appear to be there, there is no CEL, and the computer does not pick up any codes from the OBD2 port; you will pass inspection!


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## QBalance156 (Apr 9, 2003)

*Re: (JF1283MK3VR6)*

Bringing this back...
So I've narrowed it down to my combi valve and I have three questions:
1) How much suction is required to operate the combi valve? When I checked the solenoid valve, I feel some vacuum suction, but it's not too strong.
2) Is there a safe way to clean the combi valve to try and bring it back to life? Mine had A LOT of carbon deposits at the outlet, which I was able to scrape out.
3) Where is a place to order the combi valve for CHEAP?
Thanks in advance


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## andlf (Feb 6, 2008)

*Re: (QBalance156)*








now *i'm* taking notes!


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## amitesh (Dec 25, 2008)

*Re: (Soren)*

What does solenoid looks like? What is the part number of solenoid for 2001 Jetta 1.8 Turbo?


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## fuzzy166 (Jan 17, 2009)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

Since so many operations on the VR6 require it, there must be a 'correct' way to remove the front bumper on a Jetta. I am sure instructions exist somewhere, but everything ZI read says "remove the front bumper and radiator". Any suggestions?


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## fistic (Jan 22, 2009)

Hi guys I can see this thread is really live, so maybe you are the ones who could help me. 
I have this fault code coming back again and again for more then 1 year:
16795 - Secondary Air Injection System: Incorrect Flow Detected
P0411 - 35-00 - -
I ran output test and everything is fine. In Basic settings group 077 field 3 says -100% field 4 says System OK. 
It is an 1.8 t engine code AUQ.


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## OOjetta (Jun 2, 2004)

*Re: (fistic)*

I started a post for my SAI problems here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...id=29


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## kingofqueenz788 (Jun 24, 2008)

hey guys wheir do i get this so called 11$ solenoid


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## pccompuman (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

i recently picked up a mk3, it has a cel. i dont know the code cause the car isnt insured/registered yet. 
when the car is cold and starts up, i can hear the pump, very very loud, there is a little bit of smoke coming from the exhaust, and has a rough/surging idle. when the pump shuts off, the surging stops, the smoke stops and all seams fine. would it be safe to assume that the problem is either the kombi value or the solinode, and not the pump? any hints or helps?


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## fastnetmail2 (Apr 10, 2008)

you need to know your part number. i don't know if this will work for you.
http://www.1stvwparts.com has 1K0906283 for $51.12.
it's no longer 8 bucks if you read the above posts. the Solenoid is easy to get to for the 2001 v6 Jetta. take off the front plastic covering under the car, and it's front center. it would help if you can google and look at what the part looks like before going under. i cleared the light, drove a few days, my reader says it's ready for smog. well, today, my wife said the cel went on again. i suppose my case isn't the solenoid. i'll have my buddy check all the hose and see if it's possible to get to the combi valve. i read above about jacking the engine .. has anyone cleaned the combi successfully (I read someone did) but i'm wondering if there's any rubber or plastic parts inside where an MAF cleaner will damage it.


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## fastnetmail2 (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (TR04gli)*

Hi TR04gli,
Can you tell us which solenoid you replaced? I know someone else posted, but I want to make sure it's the same solenoid that you're talking about. I'm not sure if my car have two solenoid or one. thanks.


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## fastnetmail2 (Apr 10, 2008)

*Solenoid Specific.. do this first before you mess with the Combi Valve!*

UPDATE: 4/7/09: I take back what I said below about the 58 Ohm. The AllData book might be wrong and that my solenoid checking out at 58 Ohm may be correct. I do not know yet, so don't rely on these numbers to determine if the solenoid is bad.
Before you guys start replacing your SAI Solenoid, you guys need to know which part to replace! I think there's a few solenoid in there. According to this thread, page 1, someone mentioned 1K0 906 283, and I bought it, replaced it, but my CEL came on after half a week of driving. My friend mechanic told me that he sees another solenoid. My friend mechanic printed out the AllData Online information (it's a paid service), it specifically said for P0411, you need to test the SAI Solenoid Valve (N112). The resistance should be between 25.0 to 35.0 Ohms. Turns out, my buddy pulled out part 1j0 906 283 b. (My friend mechanic was pretty confident that N112 FOR MY CAR corresponded to part 1j0 906 283 b) We tested it to give 58 Ohms, which is outside of the spec of 25 to 35 Ohms. He also ran 12Volt across the terminals of the solenoid, 1j0 906 283 b, carefully (so you don't short your battery), and the solenoid did not Click. He said the solenoid should click. We suspect 1j0 906 283 b is defective. 
Lesson I learned is that, Instead of taking the Combi Valve out, simple go under the car, and carefully take the Solenoids out and test them. It's very easy to locate. under the car, front most (take out the plastic), and it's front center, right behind the fan!! It's next to the oil filter according to my memory. There's a lower and a higher solenoid. While your at it, get yourself 2 to 3 feet of vacuum hose and replace it. (see page 1 of this thread for size). I find that the Kragen hose is a lot thicker than the OEM.. the OEM hose is puny..very thin. I think Kragen's hose is about 300% ticker, however, without the clothe covering. I don't think it matters, but I prefer something that's much thicker. 

I do not know how many Ohms this part 1K0 906 283 should show. (does anyone know?) 
So the moral of the story to fixing the P0411 is DO NOT take anything apart. First thing you check is the Solenoid. You can check if the fan comes on if you have the VAG-COM, and you'll hear the clicking. As for the Relay, my 2001 Jetta V6 AFP engine. The relay was located Next to the Air box. It's on top, and there's no fuse. I suppose different model has different design. With my friend's Snap-on VAG, when he tested the air pump, he could hear the relay click.
I will post pictures of the Relays specific to my car and take pictures of the location of these solenoid next week after I order the solenoid. Like I said, before you order your solenoid, take it out (replace the tubes while your at it), and test the Ohm.
Did I mention that I'm a professional photographer? These pictures will be very illustrative.







Stay tune.

_Modified by fastnetmail2 at 6:41 PM 4-5-2009_

_Modified by fastnetmail2 at 6:43 PM 4-5-2009_

IMPORTANT UPDATE: 4/7/09: I take back what I said below about the 58 Ohm. The AllData book might be wrong and that my solenoid checking out at 58 Ohm may be correct. I do not know yet, so don't rely on these numbers to determine if the solenoid is bad.



_Modified by fastnetmail2 at 5:44 AM 4-7-2009_


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## PADUBYA (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

Thanks for the help. I had P0411 codes for years. I finally pulled the front clip off and found the pinched vac line going to the shut off valve. What a royal pain in the ^(%$.


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## OOjetta (Jun 2, 2004)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (PADUBYA)*

Thanks to this thread I was able to troubleshoot and replace the bad part... in my case it was the actual SAI pump/motor! ARG!!! Here are pics of the removal:
Engine jacked up








Everything removed (you can see the new combi to solenoid vac hose)








Lots of room...
















I decided to open it up... i couldn't make it any worse, right?
















Well, this could be a problem... that and the fact that the motor doesn't even turn.








the other end
















Time for a new one...








I'll post the installation pictures in a day or so...


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## fastnetmail2 (Apr 10, 2008)

can you show us which bolt you had to take off to jack the engine up? and where do you jack it up and how do you take the parts out?
Thanks for the pictures.
While you're at it, can you check your resistance for your Solenoid (take a picture of it), part number, and measure the resistance? Mine measured 58 Ohm and it wouldn't turn if I put 12V across the terminals. I have a feeling there are different solenoids with different resistance. I have a hard time believing that both my solenoids are busted though.


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## OOjetta (Jun 2, 2004)

*Re: (fastnetmail2)*

I have a 98 Jetta...not sure if the mounts for the MKIV are the same.... You'll have to give me a few days to get that part number and resistance reading for you.


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## fastnetmail2 (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: (OOjetta)*

great, if possible, take a picture too. this is all for the benefit of others. I found out that my 2001, v6, Jetta, AFP engine has two identical SAI Solenoid Valves! I had another mechanic on this forum to call the dealer just to confirm. Valve location and diagram at this link: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4270565 See the question I asked.


_Modified by fastnetmail2 at 2:10 AM 4-8-2009_


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## fastnetmail2 (Apr 10, 2008)

1)
Do you guys know if squirting a little bit of WD40 will hurt the new vacuum tubes? My mechanic says it won't, but I'm paranoid. He said if he doesn't, then he runs the risk of snapping the connector that goes into the vacuum hose.
2)
Does anyone know if these thick Kragen (goodyear) vacuum hose are better or the stock? The stock is tubes are very thin but has protective covering.


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## OOjetta (Jun 2, 2004)

*Re: (fastnetmail2)*

The WD-40 won't hurt the hose and the Kragen hoses will work just fine. I'll upload those install pics soon.... I swear!


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## louisvanwilker (Dec 30, 2007)

*Re: (OOjetta)*









just no fuse under mine at all? wtf


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## j4ftuner (Jan 28, 2009)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (P0411) fix! (benny_mech)*

Thanks for the help, that code pops up on my 97' GLX and it is giving me a hell of a time. I'm going to try changing or rerouting that hose.
Thanks again.


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## EuroVR6Mk3 (Dec 29, 2001)

*Re: Secondary Air Injection Incorrect Flow (j4ftuner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *j4ftuner* »_Thanks for the help, that code pops up on my 97' GLX and it is giving me a hell of a time. I'm going to try changing or rerouting that hose.
Thanks again.

same here. i'll have to check mine out soon


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## EuroVR6Mk3 (Dec 29, 2001)

so what can this be?
when i start the car in the morning, i hear the pump (a vacuum sound) go on, then off, on then off. valve? solenoid? i'm guessing the pump works.
THANKS!


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## Supersean (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (EuroVR6Mk3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroVR6Mk3* »_so what can this be?
when i start the car in the morning, i hear the pump (a vacuum sound) go on, then off, on then off. valve? solenoid? i'm guessing the pump works.
THANKS!









Yeah, I've got a similar situation except I hear my pump stay on and the engine's RPM's fluctuate down and back to normal... Almost like my engine is losing power. After the 65 seconds, the pump shuts off and my engine stops fluctuating and sounds perfectly normal. I would love an answer to that question. Anybody?



_Modified by Supersean at 9:44 PM 6-28-2009_


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## EuroVR6Mk3 (Dec 29, 2001)

try checking out your air hoses. sounds like more of a vacuum problem.


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## Everglxvr6 (Feb 7, 2009)

*Re: (EuroVR6Mk3)*

i need some help i have a 95 jetta glx i blew the engine about 7 months ago and i took it to the mechanic and he put a vr6 engine off a 98 which wasnt a dohc and it doesnt have a secondary air injection pump (according to the mechanic obd2 doesnt have one)i want to get rid of the cel turning on because i want to sell the car. and the car doesnt have the same power as before WTF? what should i do?


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## biggles1 (Sep 2, 2009)

*Re: (Everglxvr6)*

any body have a fix for 1432 secondary air injection valve open....i changed solenoid still throwing code...


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## Supersean (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (EuroVR6Mk3)*

I swapped out all of my hoses and I still have a CEL... My engine also idles weirdly when the pump is turned on. 
I'm thinking about replacing the solenoid now. 
Does anybody happen to know if I can switch out my solenoid without having to remove the bumper or lift the motor?
Has anybody done that? 
I really appreciate the help!


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## thatkindasux (Feb 25, 2009)

I'm thinking of pulling this SAI crap off my MK3 vr6. I see there is a plug you can buy. Is there a way to keep the CEL in check? No emissions checks on the the car.


_Modified by thatkindasux at 11:53 PM 2-10-2010_


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## TwoForTripping (Mar 6, 2008)

*air flow*

ok I took my front end apart and I have the air pump check valve, 021 131 101 A, how much air should come out of this when it's hooked up to the pump. I turned my pump on and there is like no air coming out. Someone help.


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## John222 (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks to the OP! My problem just turned out to be a crushed vacuum hose. Jacked up motor a few inches and pulled it out and replaced the hose. 

Thanks Again!


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## mk3lvr6 (Aug 19, 2010)

*kombi valve*

hi there....how does the kombi valve actually come out? I cant see how its attatched and I just wanna know what im gonna have to do to get it off. 
thanks!


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## mk3lvr6 (Aug 19, 2010)

*solenoid*

i took my solenoid off and checked it without lifting the motor. i just took the rad. shroud off and the solenoid is in a little bracket i think u slide it up and its in ur hand. i took the lines off mine and i couldnt even blow air thru it so i took a can of mass air flow cleaner i had layin around and stuck the straw in the hole and cleaned it out....i could blow thru it then but i still have the check engine light on. im goin onto the kombi.


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## mk3lvr6 (Aug 19, 2010)

TwoForTripping said:


> ok I took my front end apart and I have the air pump check valve, 021 131 101 A, how much air should come out of this when it's hooked up to the pump. I turned my pump on and there is like no air coming out. Someone help.


 i took my solenoid off and checked it without lifting the motor. i just took the rad. shroud off and the solenoid is in a little bracket i think u slide it up and its in ur hand. i took the lines off mine and i couldnt even blow air thru it so i took a can of mass air flow cleaner i had layin around and stuck the straw in the hole and cleaned it out....i could blow thru it then but i still have the check engine light on. im goin onto the kombi.


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## Das Borgen (Sep 10, 2008)

i remember referring to this DIY all ready to fix nmy problem.................and just completely removing SAI


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## John222 (Oct 11, 2008)

It's only held in with one hex bolt. Remove that plastic cover on top of the radiator, unbolt the front motor mount and jack up the front of the motor a few inches. Then remove dip stick tube. Now you can use a small mirror to see the bolt holding the kombi valve. You will need a 1/4 drive socket driver with a short extension and hex socket to remove. comes out pretty easy. 

John


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## Ultramagnus0001 (Jun 22, 2006)

The other solenoid is for the intake shifter rod on the AFP 12v engine. It switches intake runners to improve torque at lower and higher RPMs by rotating the shifter rod.

http://www.gruvenparts.com/website/d...rod_on_a_m.htm



fastnetmail2 said:


> UPDATE: 4/7/09: I take back what I said below about the 58 Ohm. The AllData book might be wrong and that my solenoid checking out at 58 Ohm may be correct. I do not know yet, so don't rely on these numbers to determine if the solenoid is bad.
> Before you guys start replacing your SAI Solenoid, you guys need to know which part to replace! I think there's a few solenoid in there. According to this thread, page 1, someone mentioned 1K0 906 283, and I bought it, replaced it, but my CEL came on after half a week of driving. My friend mechanic told me that he sees another solenoid. My friend mechanic printed out the AllData Online information (it's a paid service), it specifically said for P0411, you need to test the SAI Solenoid Valve (N112). The resistance should be between 25.0 to 35.0 Ohms. Turns out, my buddy pulled out part 1j0 906 283 b. (My friend mechanic was pretty confident that N112 FOR MY CAR corresponded to part 1j0 906 283 b) We tested it to give 58 Ohms, which is outside of the spec of 25 to 35 Ohms. He also ran 12Volt across the terminals of the solenoid, 1j0 906 283 b, carefully (so you don't short your battery), and the solenoid did not Click. He said the solenoid should click. We suspect 1j0 906 283 b is defective.
> Lesson I learned is that, Instead of taking the Combi Valve out, simple go under the car, and carefully take the Solenoids out and test them. It's very easy to locate. under the car, front most (take out the plastic), and it's front center, right behind the fan!! It's next to the oil filter according to my memory. There's a lower and a higher solenoid. While your at it, get yourself 2 to 3 feet of vacuum hose and replace it. (see page 1 of this thread for size). I find that the Kragen hose is a lot thicker than the OEM.. the OEM hose is puny..very thin. I think Kragen's hose is about 300% ticker, however, without the clothe covering. I don't think it matters, but I prefer something that's much thicker.
> 
> ...


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## waughdigger (Mar 5, 2011)

can anyone tell me what these are in both pics??










and


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## John222 (Oct 11, 2008)

I thought the SAIP system only worked right after starting the car. Yesterday my cell came on after driving for 20 minutes. Why would that happen? The only thing currently wrong with the car is the thermostat is stuck open. Could that be telling the smog pump to start?


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## John222 (Oct 11, 2008)

Well my problem is finally fixed. Not only was the combi valve diaphragm leaking, but so was the N112 solenoid. Just a note to everyone, this N112 solenoid must hold vacuum. You can't just pull the hose and confirm the presence of vacuum when the solenoid is energized. You need to use a MityVac tester or one of the $20 Harbor freight vacuum pumps to pull a vacuum and confirm that the N112 valve holds the vacuum. The same test needs to be done to the combi valve. A slow leak in either of these items will cause a PO411 fault code. 

I don't believe that some of the previously mentioned test can rule out small leaks in either of these parts. My combi valve was partially opening even with a leaky combi diaphragm and a leaky N112 solenoid. My system passed all the previously mentioned test in this thread but I still had a PO411. Apparently the combi it wasn't opening quite enough to satisfy the ECU. So for those of you still trying to get rid of the dreaded PO411, go buy or borrow a vacuum tester and confirm that the combi and N112 are functioning properly. 

http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-bleeder-and-vacuum-pump-kit-92474.html 
http://www.harborfreight.com/mityvac-vacuum-pump-39522.html


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## nicewebsite (Apr 15, 2011)

I need to unbolting the front motor in order to fix the combi valve , would anyone show me exact many bolts and location of the bolts of the front end motor ?..DIY would be great ..Jetta 97 vr6 ..thanks in advance


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## VR6JETTA4u1998 (Apr 13, 2009)

nicewebsite said:


> I need to unbolting the front motor in order to fix the combi valve , would anyone show me exact many bolts and location of the bolts of the front end motor ?..DIY would be great ..Jetta 97 vr6 ..thanks in advance


did you get the info already? I just saw this. I am currently doing a write up of replacing A/C Compressor, drier and expansion valve for a 1998 Jetta. One of the first steps is removing the front end, so let me know if you still need it. I use vortex most of the time, so PM me so I get back to you.


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## 7rrivera7 (Jun 24, 2010)

I want to test the SAI pump by connecting it to a battery but the 2 pins on the connector are not identified. My pump connector has a flat side and a rounded side - which side get 12 volts?


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## VR6JETTA4u1998 (Apr 13, 2009)

7rrivera7 said:


> I want to test the SAI pump by connecting it to a battery but the 2 pins on the connector are not identified. My pump connector has a flat side and a rounded side - which side get 12 volts?


I got mine off the car now. It worked fine, but the vacuum hoses are crushed. I will take a look at it and let you know which side. If yours fails and you need another one, I am selling mine.


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## 7rrivera7 (Jun 24, 2010)

VR6JETTA4u1998 said:


> I got mine off the car now. It worked fine, but the vacuum hoses are crushed. I will take a look at it and let you know which side. If yours fails and you need another one, I am selling mine.


Please let me know if you figured out which side of the pump gets 12v so I can test mine and possible buy yours...


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## evershadowed (Feb 28, 2007)

*Possible quick fix and smog pass with P0411?*

I need to smog my car and I am pretty sure it is the solenoid on the SAI system that is bad. I replaced it 4 years ago when I had problems with the SAI (along with the Kombi Valve). I ran a few tests and it seems to be the solenoid. Here's what I did.

Started the car with everything normalized and listened to the pump kick on (that is the good news), also listened to the breather hose that attaches to the air box. It sounded like a wet/dry vac. Once the pump turned off it just sounded like how the car normally runs. I then took the vac line from the T-fitting that generally runs to the solenoid and connected the Kombi Valve ->Solenoid line to it (the T-fitting, which had vacuum)...the breather hose then sounded completely different (which I am assuming both from useful deductive logic....and what others have said on this thread...that the Kombi is still working). Does this so far seem correct?

I assume in order to correctly check the solenoid I need to wait until the car cools (as I don't have a VAG.COM) and start it again to check the vac on the solenoid (the Kombi->Solenoid line). Is this correct?

Finally, I need to try and pass Smog soon and as others have noted, the F***ing SAI throws off everything (my mpg has dropped to 16/23 at best and I do have new plugs, brand new CARB cat, clean air filter, etc.) 

So I am wondering this....can I just connect the T-fitting line that usually runs to the solenoid directly to the Kombi? I imagine this would mean the Kombi valve with be constantly open, yes? Will this do any harm to the Kombi, or anything else? Sorry I am vague on this last part but I am unclear as to whether the Kombi/EGR valve has any other purposes other for the SAI system to work. thanks for any guidance


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## evershadowed (Feb 28, 2007)

*solenoid replacement*

also, has anyone noticed if the solenoid used (i believe N112) is used on the mkIV's? I have noticed every once in a great while you can find a newer compatible part that costs a fraction of the price. Thanks


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## 98GTI_VR6 (Jan 21, 2011)

*how about just plug it*

i say the easiest way to get rid of that nig rig is 42dd sai plug.... any comments? 20$


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## evershadowed (Feb 28, 2007)

Yeah, I wish. Damn CARB rules, I am not sure if you got rid of the SAI system and used a SAI plug/ C2 chip combo from BFI if that would pass smog in Cali...I doubt it would.


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## evershadowed (Feb 28, 2007)

*CTS replacement affecting SAI system*

A few have mentioned that the CTS may be worth looking into as well. Where is the Coolant Temp. Sensor located? I can't find it in the Bentley manual. Also , is it a PITA to replace or is it worth it to just change. Also has anyone ever replaced their Fuel Pressure Regulator, I pulled mine out but do not know how to test to see if it is operating correctly


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## DaveKlein (May 12, 2004)

I've read every single post in this thread! Thanks guys for the info.

The one question I have is my combi doesn't open so I've disconnected what I think is the vacuum line, which seems to be a hard plastic tube?, that runs up to combi? Please tell me if that is the right line? And also, if I blow through it, air comes out way up at the top under manifold somewhere. If this is the right line running to the combi, I'd think that it should not leak air when blown on.

And also, I can't see how to get that top plastic grill cover off without taking off the bumper ect...on a MK1V.

Thanks for any help!!


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## DaveKlein (May 12, 2004)

Here's a short vid of where I'm at with this. I currently can't see the combi valve but the camera can. I thought the large tube ran directly to the combi but it's dazy chained off pump. I can't see a vacuum hose at all. The is a crazy hard place to get to.


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## DaveKlein (May 12, 2004)

Well I feel like Tom Hanks in Castaway talking to myself but that's ok..

Combi valve had the same problem OP had who started this thread. Huge leak on vacuum line. It's working fine and pump is working well but engine light is still on. Does this take awhile to reset?


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## DVanderBoom867 (Oct 13, 2011)

Im getting ready to try this out on mine but what size emissions hose did you use and how long was it?


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## jacospades (Apr 20, 2003)

*What next?*

98 VW GTi VR6
/////////////////

So, I'm getting some consistent results from my SAI system after replacing everything - combi, solenoid, vacuum tubing, pump, relay, fuse - and cleaning contacts at relay and all connectors, but the problem is that it's not the _expected_ result. Instead of my SAI system kicking on at cold start and staying on for 65 seconds, the system will only kick on after the second start for the requisite 65 seconds. The third start yields the SAI system clicking on after 30 seconds and then immediately off (not for 5 seconds). The same results are produced whether 15F outside or 50F. 

All components are working just not at the right time so my suspicions are gravitating towards either the ECM or the coolant temperature sensors being faulty. I've read this thread front to back many times but I must be missing something. Anyone have any ideas/insight?

Thanks in advance. :beer:

Pics:


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## jacospades (Apr 20, 2003)

*Thoughts?*

I failed to mention in my above post that the initial codes thrown were good ol' p0411 Faulty SAI and p1452 SAI system circuit open. The last code, p1452, doesn't show up in the search results often so I need some advise on what I should try apart from replacing the 50A fuse and cleaning the contacts to the relay, which I've done. The relay and pump can be jumped from the battery and I assume the solenoid is functioning properly as a)it's brand new, and b) I can feel suction at the air inlet and the pump doesn't sound like it's struggling and c)it's passed all suction tests. What next? Unwrap and inspect all wiring from the ECU to relay??

I'm still not ruling out the coolant fan control cut-off relay. I'm not sure how to test it though. Not much in search.:sly:



> Activation is initiated by the Motronic Engine Control Module (ECM) -J220- via the First or Third Speed Coolant Fan Control Cut-Off relay -J229- to Secondary Air Injection solenoid valve -N112- and Combi-valve. After each subsequent engine start (up to max. 85 C engine temperature) the Secondary Air Injection system will (after a 20 second delay) switch in for 5 seconds during idle.


Thanks for looking. :beer::beer:


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## jacospades (Apr 20, 2003)

*Up*

TTT


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## jacospades (Apr 20, 2003)

TTT


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## John222 (Oct 11, 2008)

Why don't you put your old relay back in and see it it works. If it's still does it, then you may have a broken wire or bad connection between the ecu and the relay primary. When the fault indicates open circuit it's referring to an open circuit to the relay coil.


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## jacospades (Apr 20, 2003)

*Thanks*

I'm going to run connectivity tests with my multi-meter and swap in the old relay for giggles (though the new one clicks on and off fine). So close yet so far. :banghead:


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## VSittinStaticW (Apr 22, 2012)

*Not to bring this thread back up but...*

Can this cause a lack of power after long trips as well as a whistle and almost drone sound?? 


i cant find any answers on this


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## felipee24 (Mar 27, 2012)

*thanks guys*

thanks guys! i passed emission today! you guys save me lots of $$$$


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## Justacar (Feb 8, 2012)

Just had this code. Before you all go spend mad dow on a SAI, check the SAI selnoid between the rad and T stat housing. Its the black plastic thing with 2 va lines and a eletrical connecter. It wasnt opening causing the SIA to back up. Once I replaced it it opened the Combi valve instantlly. Gl


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## llanowar (Jun 26, 2008)

nice


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## PWRSAT WAGEN (May 19, 2011)

*Big thanks to the Vortex community*

Yeah, I'm going through it too, got light and shop-vac sound. Much good info here, will make an attempt in myself. I think this also will persuade me to invest in the mighty VAG-COM. Also, does anyone know if a chip and delete will satisfy emissions in Georgia?


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## mongovb (May 10, 2010)

For those who dont have the option or like me couldnt figure out witch motor motor mount constitutes the front and after unbolting the one at the front side of the trans and the other next to the firewall, the motor was not budging. Im sure it was something I didnt do. Anywho, I was able to pull the combi valve out without pulling the front end off or lifting the motor. I was already replacing the valve cover gasket so I decided to go for it. After removing the upper intake which wasnt that hard, I unbolted the fuel rail and wiggled out all 6 injectors at once. holding them up out of the way, I was able to see the bolt holding the combi valve in place. I picked up a round headed 6mm hex wrench with the 3/8 socket end on it from Lowes. That will reach back there far enough to get on that bolt. Unscrewed it and wiggled the valve out. plugged in the vacuum line and reversed the process. Make sure your vacuum line is not pinched or folded at a right angle when you wiggle the valve back in. I used some RTV to hold the retaining bolt on the valve when I re-installed it. I dont think it is any less effort to do it this way, but, if you dont have a jack, there is another option to removing the front end. Hope this helps someone. Thanks for the great info in this thread. It really got me on the right track and understanding how this little crap system works.


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## BrokenGTI02 (Aug 19, 2012)

I have to say this post is amazing and I need to try to find this hose to check on mine. I have tested switched and relays and everything is kicking on and off fine. I am just having a lack of power in all gears when accelerating. 

Is there an easy way to find/check this hose with out tearing off the bumper? If I take that bumper off there are a whole lot of extras that should be done but I don't think the wife will appreciate the spending of vacation funds.  

Thanks guys!


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## Zaluss (Jul 18, 2012)

Today I put the car on ramps and removed the lower front engine mount bolt. As I jacked up the engine I could see the damaged braided vacuum lines on the solenoid but I wasn't sure how far to jack up the engine without damaging the other mounts. Any have any idea how far I can jack up the engine to access the vacuum lines?


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## Chad Poland (Apr 19, 2011)

I read through the entire thread and now have an understanding of what to check on my MK4 12v VR6. However I thought I may post my symptoms to see if anyone else had similar issues.

*Can clear code and will come back after 30 or so miles.
*When CEL is activated "EMISSIONS WORKSHOP!" beeps at me after I take the motor past 2500RPM.
*Pump comes on and runs when starting for around 60 seconds.
*all visible hoses ( not ones in front of engine) block appear to be in good condition.
*previously had the hose connected to the air pump come loose which made a REAL loud noise


I have a feeling its the Kombi valve or one of the hoses linked to it. Also where are you guys buying the large diameter "emissions tubing"? One guys said Autozone and it looks simple enough but usually has complex bends and special locking fittings.

Thanks


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## Chad Poland (Apr 19, 2011)

Chad Poland said:


> I read through the entire thread and now have an understanding of what to check on my MK4 12v VR6. However I thought I may post my symptoms to see if anyone else had similar issues.
> 
> *Can clear code and will come back after 30 or so miles.
> *When CEL is activated "EMISSIONS WORKSHOP!" beeps at me after I take the motor past 2500RPM.
> ...



Did some testing today.

Step 1
*Took off the air pump breather hose from air box and blew into with car off - Unable too blow through
-So that means the Combi valve is not stuck open (If I understand it right)

Step 2
*Started the car after it cooled down and tried to blow through breather hose with car running and air pump AUDIBLY running - still unable to blow through
- So that must mean that the combi valve is either 
A - Stuck closed
or
B - Not opening due to no vaccuum from either a broken or pinched line or from the EGR Solenoid not working properly

An important note - The 2000 VR6 "appears" to have different vacuum hose routing than the older vr6's. Just from visually inspected under the car the vacuum hose running from the Combi valve to the Egr solenoid is NOT pinched at all. It may possibly be bent at a 90 degree angle coming off the nipple on the Combi valve but it doesn't appear to be.

Additional Step
* I also disconnected the vacuum hose that runs from the Combi valve to the Egr solenoid ( at the egr solenoid side) and used my handy Harbor Freight Brake Bleeder/Vacuum pump to pull a vacuum to test the line. The line held a vacuum ( well it did build pressure and lost it slowly due to my poor non air tight connections) which MUST mean that the line has no leaks, OR that it may possibly be bent at a 90 degree angle coming off the nipple on the Combi valve, but it doesn't appear to be.

I ordered a junkyard EGR solenoid and Combi Valve off Ebay for a decent price. If these cheap parts do not fix it, I'm ripping it all out, plugging it and getting a SAI delete tune from C2.

I will continue to follow up with my troubleshooting.


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

Good to see this thread is still going strong! Whoever came up with SAI should be flogged.


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## lschneeg07 (Jun 29, 2013)

*P0411 Code, fuse related?*

Hi all,

First, thanks for the post, its been very helpful, however I still can't figure out the problem thats throwing the code. I removed my front end and examined all hoses, the valve and the pump. When I turn the car on, the fan doesn't blow, but if I bridge the relay (100 in the fuse box under the hood) the fan turns on. I thought that the relay was bad, so I bought a new one. The fan still doesn't come on! What inputs feed into this relay? Is there a fuse that feeds into this relay??


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## navymech (Jan 30, 2006)

*But maybe.....*

I have had to chase the P0411 garbage on my B4 to find the system in perfect working order. There is another cause for this code that has NOTHING to do with the pump, solenoid, kombi valve, etc. The port in the AAA cylinder head where the kombi valve mounts is an air passage into the cyl head that branches off to supply the pump air into the exhaust ports. I have not looked into an ABA head, but it may be similar. The hole is pretty small. My car has quite a few miles on it and the port from the air in (kombi) to the exh port is full of carbon build up from age, burning oil, whatever. Remember, if air can flow into the head, exhaust gasses can go the other way. The kombi prevents these gasses from escaping and blowing up/melting the pump, but the ports can (will?) get clogged with carbon. :thumbdown: Smaller port diameter=reduced airflow. If the system check on start up and during extended idling detects insufficient flow (not enough air injected into exhaust) it of course lights up the CEL and annoys us all. Short of pulling the head to clean out the ports, as long as there is carbon plugging up the works, doesn't matter how much you put into the junk on the outside to get it to work, you'll still get the stupid, useless, asinine code. I hope this helps anyone else who has been :banghead: working on this issue.


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## paulinnc (Aug 10, 2013)

*2001 VW Golf Mk IV*

I have just recently started getting engine codes. P0411 was the most recent and I tested my air pump so I know it is not that. The hoses appear to be in shape so I am looking into it further. On my engine I noticed the vacuum valve is not in the same location as it is in my haynes manual. When I followed the wire from the check valve to located the vac valve it goes into some plastic housing of some sort. I know not having pics doesn't really help but any insight would be good. I am hoping it is a fuse issue and not some invasive repair job.


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## swrider77 (Feb 7, 2013)

Awesome thread, I hope it helps me out!!!
I just finished reading this whole thread, along with the DIY for the carrier lock, and I wish I could say that it's all good now.
So far, I've tested my pump by feeding 12vdc to it from the battery and the sucker kicks on right away. But since I don't have a vag-tool I can't really tell what could be wrong, so I took the pricey route and went down to the dealership and bought both solenoid valves and what i believe is all the vacuum hosing involved in the area.
I did find out that the combi valve might be a royal pain to remove, the stupid hose runs behind it :banghead:
So now to figure out how to remove it, i guess it's only the two torx screws, plus the dip stick needs to be moved a little to the side to allow for room???
Is that how it goes, anyone???
I'll take it out and see if i can tell if it works, plus clean it out while i am at it.
So a couple of questions to anyone that can answer:
1) I took the front of the car off, which meant draining the coolant, and now i am waiting on parts to come in, should be 2 days. Is the car ok if i leave it with no coolant inside, i don't think i should have to worry about some corrosion there right???
2) My car is a MKIV so the only way i could figure out to gain access to all this crap was to remove the front of the car and drain the coolant, is that right, or did i not need to drain it???
3) I don't have pretty good luck, so I am guessing that after i replace the hoses and the two solenoids, that I will still pop that stupid P0401, at which point I would love to get a diagnostic tool, but which one and from where, anyone???
Anyways, thanks to everyone that took the time to do all the write ups, much appreciated!!!


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## ajettareeves (Feb 1, 2014)

Bought my mk3 Vr6 1 week ago when it didnt have the CEL.. Next day after the sale it comes on. I suspect it was wiped just for the sale...

Anyway, I checked voltage to the SAI pump and Zero volts came up. After crying for a little after seeing how much they cost I read this Thread and found out more about combi valves and stuff. Cleaned the "T" near the fuel pressure regulator and let it dry before putting back in with new Vacuum line to solenoid.

Started and CEL was still on. Checked the Fuse Box and Pulled out a *30A FUSE* on top of the Box and put my mulitmeter in instead of the Fuse and as Ignition went on it showed 12V... 

I turned the key only to hear a High Pitched SCREAMING from the Engine...... Engine OFF and rushed to the front to check Belts and anything that could have been stuck there but nothing.. Started the engine again and Left it screaming and it was the Pump sucking but the screaming was from the Air being sucked through the poorly connected pipe from the Combi to the pump. I tried to push it back on and then gave it a little tug and it WAS NOT connected at all just lightly Wedged between everything. ..

I put the 30A fuse back in and its still working so it will Stay for now... 

BUMP for Soran a Everybody else For putting into this making problem solving easier and making more time with our VR6's more enjoyable


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## ajettareeves (Feb 1, 2014)

swrider77 said:


> Awesome thread, I hope it helps me out!!!
> I just finished reading this whole thread, along with the DIY for the carrier lock, and I wish I could say that it's all good now.
> So far, I've tested my pump by feeding 12vdc to it from the battery and the sucker kicks on right away. But since I don't have a vag-tool I can't really tell what could be wrong, so I took the pricey route and went down to the dealership and bought both solenoid valves and what i believe is all the vacuum hosing involved in the area.
> I did find out that the combi valve might be a royal pain to remove, the stupid hose runs behind it :banghead:
> ...


Check the voltage from the fuse in the fuse box to the left of the clutch (or Brake if Auto) to see if that is getting 12V.. Plug every hole, Dust is not liked anywhere in the engine. Even if its in the colling system. Best to keep it clean so stuffing the pipes with clean-ish Rags will do.

1) At the start of the Tread lads said they didnt need to drain it but I cant remember what mk VR6 they had.. Sorry I cant help with mk4's
I hope everything works for ya after changing and rigging everything up


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## Brimjolt (May 16, 2008)

I need to bring this back up from the dead! 

I have a P1420 code, elec. malfunc. rather than the P0411 everyones been having. Could that be predominantly a fuse/metal strip/ground issue rather than the actual solenoid valve?


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## Brimjolt (May 16, 2008)

ok so yes it turned out to be a blown fuse, which i replaced and reveal the all too common P0411. I pulled out the solenoid valve and can't blow air through either little nipples.


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## Brimjolt (May 16, 2008)

i have to bump this thread. I read the entire thing, found my problem, got the part, and the CEL is gone. :thumbup:


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## sonicbluevr6 (Jul 23, 2014)

*Cold air intake?*

Hi, im new to the forums, I noticed u have a cold air intake, what did u do with the top hose that is connected to the top of the smog pump that goes to the stock air box?


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## sonicbluevr6 (Jul 23, 2014)

Sorry, I ment short ram intake


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## Das2.0Turtle (Jun 23, 2014)

Hey guys hope someone can help me out here so my car has 7 codes a random misfire code and a p03001-6 except on cyl. 4. I've replaced coilpack plugs wires etc. the works
And I also have a p0411 
When I went to look at it here's what I found
The hose that hose to the airbox was ripped in half the one thy goes to the pump and combi valve was ripped in half to and the famous little vac hose that gets pinched was in bad shape too 
My question now is would the SAI cause the car to misfire due to the big vacuum leaks?
The cel only flashes on low RPMs while driving not at idle and car drives smooth no misfire symptoms in other works you wouldn't know or feel it has a misfire on all cyl. When you drive it
I can also hear a vacuum sound when I start up the car is that normal would it be just due to the vac leak or is that a bad soleniod or pump or combi
Thanks


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## Das2.0Turtle (Jun 23, 2014)

Das2.0Turtle said:


> Hey guys hope someone can help me out here so my car has 7 codes a random misfire code and a p03001-6 except on cyl. 4. I've replaced coilpack plugs wires etc. the works
> And I also have a p0411
> When I went to look at it here's what I found
> The hose that hose to the airbox was ripped in half the one thy goes to the pump and combi valve was ripped in half to and the famous little vac hose that gets pinched was in bad shape too
> ...


Turns out I have a bad soleniod and combi valve none of them seem to hold vacuum


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## HVAC-Guy (Dec 8, 2014)

I have been fighting a similar problem for the last 6 months. Any assistance I can get would be greatly appreciated.

99 VW Cabrio is throwing P0411

I found some crumbling vacuum hoses, so I replaced all of them

Air pump is operating properly.

I found an open coil on the solenoid, so I replaced it - it's now operating correctly and supplying vacuum to the combi valve. I expected that to be the end of my story, but the car is still giving me the code.

I removed the combi valve and tested it with a vacuum gauge. It was working but sticking a little due to carbon build up, so I replaced it as well. Still throwing the code.

What else could be the culprit? I'm at my wit's end here with this thing.

Thanks!


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## ghost2k (May 27, 2010)

I have been chasing the P0411 code on my 2001 Jetta GLX VR6 for the past 6 months. It was driving me nuts.

From reading online forums for suggestions, I started with replacing the following parts...
-Fuel Pressure Regulator
-Combi Valve
-SAI check valves
-SAI relay
-SAI vacuum hoses
-Used UniSettings/Lemmiwinks to lower fuel enrichment % at Start Up/Warm Up

None of it worked. I gave up, took it to a mechanic, he think it is the ECU. He quoted $950 to replace with a new ECU.
Pulling the ECU on the MK4 is relatively easy. Just look on youtube. I pulled it and got the part # 021-906-018-M.
Ordered a matching used ECU on ebay for $55. My MK4 has the the Immobilizer 2. Swapping the ECU is relatively easy. 
You will need a registered copy of VCDS-Lite and 3rd party VAG-COM KKL 409.1 USB cable.
Then follow the instructions Ross-Tech website for Immobilizer II ECU Swapping.

If you have the Immobilizer 1 or 2, it is worth a try replacing the ECU. Immobilizer 3 seems harder, but I don't know, never have to deal with it.
It a lot easier than tackling the Combi Valve, that's a pain in the ass to replace.
Good luck!


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## 12string (Feb 9, 2009)

If only the SAIP system had the staying power of this thread.........

('01 VR6)

Another approach, but I'm not sure what it tells me:

I've had the 0411 for many months, I'm getting the "whine". So I cleared the code, then pulled the hose from the airbox on a cold start. It was sucking air pretty good, so for the 60 seconds or so, I sprayed carb cleaner in the hose. After a few seconds, the engine started running pretty rough. The ASIP also seemed to not be whining. I took this a a sign that the combi was open, the carb cleaner was throwing off the O2 sensors. I figured it might help loosen up gunk in the combi. For a couple hundred miles and about 10 cold starts, no CEL! 

CEL is back. Tried it again. This time, the engine didn't go rough, even though air was sucking in. And the SAIP was whining a little bit.

Haven't dug into it yet, but this says to me that either the solenoid has an intermittent electrical issue or the combi is gunked. Bad vacuum lines would likely be consistent. I may try a few more cold starts and carb cleaner to get it through inspection.



And BTW, you don't have to pull the front end off, just slide it forward to service position. No draining coolant or unplugging connectors. You will need a couple long rods to thread into the tow hook sockets.


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## 12string (Feb 9, 2009)

12string said:


> If only the SAIP system had the staying power of this thread.........
> 
> ('01 VR6)
> 
> ...


Just getting around to a follow up: on the 12V VR6, it's much easier to reach up from under the car to remove the 2 screws that hold the Combi valve on to the pipe that goes into the head. No reason to remove the pipe. Other notes - at least on my 2001 12V, they moved the check valve to the front of the engine, halfway down. So the solenoid and valve are easy to get to. Had they rotated the vacuum line port 180 degrees on the combi valve, I could have done my fix in 5 minutes, taking off nothing but the line. I had a crack on the inside of the bend of a 2 inch long vac hose, had to take half the car apart to get it.


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## nibbib (May 24, 2013)

Hi every body new to the vr6 club lol and I have the horrible p0411 I have read big chunks of the post and I'm going to start with the fuse and relay today and hope that's it I don't want to kick the motor or pull the front end off.. And my cats not stock it has a VF engineering supercharger kit on it stage 3 so I can listen for the hair dry noise lol and I'm hopefully trying to find out if I can get a chip that can remove the fault and the o2 sensor fault. If anyone has any advice that would be great haha


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## vacaccesorioscr (Feb 1, 2021)

Anybody got any idea where the selenoid wires come from?

I can't find the 2-pin wiring


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

On mine they merge into the loom for the air pump power. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dcroix 98golf (11 mo ago)

benny_mech said:


> Since I see this question posted all the time, here's my fix. Please note that you may not have the same exact problem, but I'd start here. Your car spits the ever popular P0411 error code, here's (probably) why. Pull the front bumper/rad support.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Curious where the unpinched hose came from that you attached said plastic emissions tube to? I'm about to go check this on my 98 golf lol. Thanks in advance for any clarification


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