# Ground effects and the repair of your car.



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

I recommend that folks Replace their GROUND's. Others have picked up my Mantra, but I see folks struggling with this issue. Some folks just need black/white proof as to the effects. Hence this poll.


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## DaveLinger (Jul 6, 2005)

Just for clarification, is this poll asking about mk1 Cabriolets only, or also mk3/3.5s, or all cars in general?


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## hessiandave (Jul 5, 2009)

Thy cabriolet god has spoketh and ye shall listeneth.


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## 90Kabby (Feb 2, 2005)

Clean contact points and replace all them things, its just good common sense....on any vehicle.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

I replaced the battery to frame and frame to trans ground only. All other ground points have been and are cleaned as I come across them/as need be. Effects? Slightly better starting but that's about it, that I've really noticed anyway. But my car hasn't really had any ground-related issues in its 20+ years.

My Vanagon is a different story: It has several minor electrical issues now and all of its ground points are pretty dirty. I need to go through the entire thing replacing, adding and cleaning grounds, fixing connections, etc. :facepalm:


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## Darter (Aug 24, 2002)

I gotta say, the one thing that's been difficult for this new cabby owner in regards to addressing grounds is specifically what points they connect to. I've discovered a number of these grounds to be *missing* on my car, so I'm left scratching my head as to what "valve cover to coil" or "one on the steering column" mean (I know what these parts are, but my coil has at least one extra spade on it... does it connect there? Which valve cover stud is correct, or is there a separate ground anchor?).

Eventually the answers turn up after lengthy search sessions, but the info is not readily available (though briano's mantra is  ). What's more, I haven't found a complete list anywhere, but many threads with different locations mentioned.

Could we compile a more detailed list and photos for cabby-info.com? So far, I've found:



Battery to the left frame rail
Frame rail to the transmission
Valve cover to the ignition coil (coil, or coil mount?)
Fuse/relay panel (to...?)
Steering column (to...?)
Valve cover to raintray/firewall (same as above?)
Main harness to ground donut near fuse box (same as above?)
Rear harness DS panel near tailaights. (DS? driver's side?)
Rear Defrost PS opposite other ground. (PS? passenger's side?)
alternator to the engine block or valve cover (is one better than the other?)
cold start valve (to...? CIS only?)
hood to fender
instrument cluster (to...?)
... what else?


Being relatively new to cabby's I hear from the long-timers that grounds are essential, and I probably look at them every other time I'm wrenching on the car, but more *details* about the grounds would make addressing the issue much easier. If we can demystify the locations and attachment points, that would help a lot!  :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Loccusstgti (May 12, 2009)

I agree with this. A good list of what grounds and maybe pics would be cool.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Your wish is Granted, I am missing a few pics, but O'Well self discovery is the best, and these are on my 92,and 93 Cabbies, most CIS have the same ground points.


The battery grounds are located:

Back corner of the valve cover Going over to the Coil Bracket nut:

























Behind the air box on the frame horn. From the frame horn to the Transmission mounting to engine Bolt.... The only studded bolt on the tranny mounts



















From the Battery negative to that same frame mount.










There are more than adequate and there are additional grounds that
are from the 
A/C compressor to the Alternator Case nut.


















The ECU bracket to the rain tray.










There are additional "bonding" wires which are also Ground from the hood hinge mounting bolt to a Fender nut. Either Side.










In the Trunk: 
From the Tail Light Base Plate Drivers side to the Frame, I usually use a bumper bolt. I do both sides.

Bumper Bolt:










Tail light Bracket 3 Middle Male Spads;










Power Steering Firewall to a screw on the power steering cover:


















Clean the Frame stud and the back side of the nut, use a little Never-seize on it and with new standard battery cables they will be able to more than do the job for you.

Remove your Instrument cluster:
http://cabby-info.com/Files/DashRemoval.pdf

On the back of your cluster, remove the Shroud off the main connector
by pressing in the finger tabs, and carefully pry off.



















Carefully lift the Mylar connector off the tongue.



















Place one strip of electrical tape on the pad side of the plastic tongue.










Replace the shroud.

You should also remove the nuts off the back of the cluster and sand them to clean them.
Sand the lock washers too.

Brush the mylar with steel wool I usually twirl it around the stud sticking out, and that cleans the mylar too.

Replace the nuts and tighten them.


Now you are going to add an additional ground wire to the main cluster connection.

From the Large Connector, go back about 4 inches and use a wire splice to join 
a 12 inch piece of wire to the number 2 pin, brown wire.










Between the "X" drill a small pilot hole, and sand around it to get it to bare metal.
Add a terminal connector to the bitter end of the new spliced wire.










Use a sheet metal screw to screw the connector to the frame. You now have a good cluster ground. You can run
This ground to the console gauges and get a more accurate reading, although I have used the ground from the
Cassette Tape Holder Lamp.

Inside the Cabin on the firewall there are Star connectors that are riveted to the Frame. 
The have the majority of grounds. Don 't have a pic.


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## Darter (Aug 24, 2002)

Nice pics! Looks like I have more missing than I thought...  Will have to go over my car some more to see how these other locations are fairing (didn't know about the a/c to alt, for instance).

What is that metal piece that is under the ground strap ring on the valve cover gasket? I'm pretty sure I don't have it...


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Its a copper plate. It's held in place by a nut on the valve cover. As far as I know its intended to allow a extra good ground to the block, for the wire that runs to the firewall. It also holds the wires/plug assembly for the 02 sensor, in the visible slot to the side of it.


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## Loccusstgti (May 12, 2009)

Now that's what i am talking about! I know what I am going to do when I get off work tonight lol.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Darter said:


> Eventually the answers turn up after lengthy search sessions, but the info is not readily available (though briano's mantra is  ). What's more, I haven't found a complete list anywhere, but many threads with different locations mentioned.
> 
> Could we compile a more detailed list and photos for cabby-info.com? So far, I've found:
> 
> ...


I'm working on an illustration that shows all of the _main_ ground cables in the engine bay. As for all the other "minor" ground points, they differ between the years and are listed in the electrical section of the Bentley Service Manual, as are the connection types for each year. I may go through all of those lists and add them to the illustration, text-wise.

A/C compressor ground varies based on car year: some ground at the battery, some ground on the engine block.

PS = passenger side
DS = driver side



Darter said:


> Nice pics! Looks like I have more missing than I thought...  Will have to go over my car some more to see how these other locations are fairing (didn't know about the a/c to alt, for instance).
> 
> What is that metal piece that is under the ground strap ring on the valve cover gasket? I'm pretty sure I don't have it...


Brian's photos are of his Digifant, so don't go looking for the same grounds. Cases in point: 1) The A/C compressor. Your factory ground is at the battery. 2) The ECU. CIS does not have an ECU in the rain tray, it has an ICU (ignition control unit) and does not have a ground strap. 3) The valve cover. CIS valve covers use the same type of hold-down strip in the back as is used in the front; use any nut for the ground strap on that rear strip you like (make sure it's clean).


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## Darter (Aug 24, 2002)

kamzcab86 said:


> A/C compressor ground varies based on car year: some ground at the battery, some ground on the engine block.
> 
> PS = passenger side
> DS = driver side
> ...


Ah, thanks for all of the clarifications... I was getting a bit worried there. I'll have to stop at a parts store on the way home and start with the valve cover strap. Good to know I'm not supposed to have that copper plate. I do have those hold-down strips though.


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## verger (Sep 8, 2010)

Thank you very much for showing us!

John


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## Loccusstgti (May 12, 2009)

Anyone have any luck to adding grounds above what comes from the factory?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Adding Grounds is only productive to your desired results. There is no Luck in proper grounding.

For VW's adding grounds or redistributing the grounds is only gonna help you in the long run.


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## vwtdiwagon (Oct 28, 2002)

This should be in the DIY section...Sticky please admin. :wave:


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

vwtdiwagon said:


> This should be in the DIY section...Sticky please admin. :wave:


There is no DIY section in this forum, only an FAQ section which is, sorry to say, pure and utter useless hodge-podge. Hence: http://www.cabby-info.com/electrical.htm#Ground , which I just updated. :beer:


Edit: URL changed since this post; link updated.


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## Moljinar (Sep 20, 2001)

The only way to know for sure is to check voltages. The worse looking cable may be fine. The good looking cable may be futzed. Get out the voltmeter and know for sure.


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## Darter (Aug 24, 2002)

kamzcab86 said:


> There is no DIY section in this forum, only an FAQ section which is, sorry to say, pure and utter useless hodge-podge. Hence: http://cabby-info.com/electrical_system.htm#Ground , which I just updated. :beer:



NICE!! Thanks Kammy! Between that chart and briano's pics, this consolidated info helps a lot! 

:thumbup:


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

The Hood Bonding wire "usually" on the Driver side hinge To the Fender is for RF shielding to the antenna, so that spurious noise "spark plug, and wire" are shielded from the antenna for those that listen to "AM" radio, or for those that have the really older cheap radios that didn't have the proper circuitry to shield the final amplifier in the " Amplitude Modulating Super Hetrodyne" radios. "FM" listeners didn't have that issue, and it isn't truely needed for proper grounding.

With the Advent of Resistor wires and plugs most manufacturers eliminated the additional bonding wire, or others didn't care at all that you heard a "motor boat" through your radio.


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## vwtdiwagon (Oct 28, 2002)

kamzcab86 said:


> There is no DIY section in this forum, only an FAQ section which is, sorry to say, pure and utter useless hodge-podge. Hence: http://cabby-info.com/electrical_system.htm#Ground , which I just updated. :beer:


Ya...The thread at the top. Thats kind of what I meant....I guess thats what I should've typed.
Thanks for updating it on your site. Its a great resource to all cabby owners.:thumbup:
Do we even have an admin? I guess its because we all play nice and dont need as much supervison as other forums.


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## tomran (Jun 16, 2011)

*Failure: Option? Certainty? Or just a good old time!*

I am real new to my Cabby _*"Princess"*_ and I just gotta' say that with out you guys and er, ah gal, I would be up fudge creek without a Pop-Cicle stick. Oh, she's a fickle one! My Cab, not, oh Gawd!:banghead: Not _you_ Kam! _Puleeze!_ 

That bit of basting done, I came across this piece on "grounding" and thought I'd pass it on. http://www.gabma.us/elec/proper_grounding.pdf It applies to British motorcycles and may raise the specter of Lucas Electric, "The Lord of Darkness" as they were known by any one who had MG's, Jaguar's, etc. This is a fine explanation of the *principal and history of grounding practice*. It's pretty short and going on the theory that _even though you needn't have knowledge of the workings of the internal combustion engine to drive a car, having it sure makes the ride more interesting and ya' meet so many nice people!_

It occurs to me that grounding in the sense we are using it is very like the "common" in house wiring. The common and ground are for all intents and purposes the same. If your house were of steel stud construction FTSOA, you could in theory run a single "hot wire" and the return could be the framing. The problem lies in that the frame, uninsulated could actually become overloaded and begin to heat up, the whole thing about imbalanced loads yada, yada-- from the get go it's just inefficient. BTW there was one more commandment... #11...and God said,"do what briano1234 says, do it gladly, completely, with a cheerful heart! Oh, and Flapjack in the second at Hollywood Park, that's all, God out!"

Buying my Cabbie has been a true eye-opener. As a hold-over sanity keeper when I owned an older Mercedes (vacuum goblins, Oy!), I keep a SNL sketch running in the back of my mind with the engineers at VW having little "off the cuff" contests, vying for the most confusing "cross-purpose-let's-blame-it-on-the-Italians" _improvements_ (subtext: "Who _rrreally_ von Vorld Var two? Hmmmm?}:laugh: Clarity even late got is soooo welcome

:bs:Call me greedy or an idiot... Okay, BOTH! :heart:Briano, I love your pics, but for the life of me I am not quite sure just what I am looking for... You get the jist. Is there a way to add some sort of photo editing function to the site? Circles, arrows, etc., in the same way we are able to underline, _italicize_, *embolden* or otherwise *affect*_ text_ *in posts*. Kam has spoken of doing a definitive ground wiring plan but it's a lot of work. I've seen her work as well as that of others on the vacuum distributor switch -- the HVAC control "thingy", it's sensational yet still a work in progress. As am I come to think of it. Am I asking for "unobtanium" here, I don't think I've ever seen this on a site; is it even possible? :what:

Just askin'. What with the economy tanking -- Lions and tigers and bears, Oh, my! 'N this _schmeckle_ dances in askin' for circles and arrows, OY! :screwy:_ Nich bein hock mein chinuk_*!*

Have a nice day y'all!



PS Oh I have to mention this B1234, your patience. Some one, I forget exact context, posed the problem you responded, simple cure, he came back with a "NO, I'm simply certain it can't be that yada, yada". I think madrabbit got in at one point "b1234 has good history with this kind of thing you should try before disregarding..." as did several others. This went back 'n forth for a good bit. I kept waiting for a moderator to jump in an tell him to go fly up his own... You were so even handed, impressive. I would love to say this had a fab ending but I don't know, it was just the way you all rally, not so much to the aid but to the solution. I think the guy just took his Radio Flyer and went home, left the field to youse guys!:snowcool:


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

My first car was a 58 bugeyed sprite, followed by a 67 MG midget, and a 1972 Rover 3500S, so I am well aware of Lord Lucas....and grounds.

*"Call me greedy or an idiot... Okay, BOTH! Briano, 
I love your pics, but for the life of me I am not 
quite sure just what I am looking for... You get the jist.
Is there a way to add some sort of photo editing function
to the site? Circles, arrows, etc., ....
Am I asking for "unobtanium" "*

Yes, you are greedy, and I have circled a few items 
in posts before. So I have take the time to edit a few 
of the pics.

You have to edit them prior to posting to your "bucket" account,
or after you have them loaded there.

*"Oh I have to mention this B1234, your patience....

You were so even handed, impressive. "*

Not always... I too have my bitchy days...be thankful
you have your car type in the profile 

I Read http://www.gabma.us/elec/proper_grounding.pdf , and he is about 3 miles up the road from me.... He must of read some of my posts...


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

I haven't answered the poll because more than one of them apply. When daily driving my '82 I went through and cleaned all the main grounding points, as well as adding a few extras. I used 8ga stereo power wire and added 2 or 3 extras and never had electrical issues.

I will add one of the worst and weakest ground points on (at least early) CIS cars is the ECM ground. On my '82 the ECM is mounted under the kneebar on the passenger side and the ground wire actually runs out through the firewall and connects to one of the cold start injector mounting bolts on the end of the intake manifold. :thumbdown: This ground has been known to fatigue over time and break, or get down to only a few strands and will cause serious running issues. If it breaks completely, the car will not run. So be sure to check this ground carefully! :thumbup:


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

tomran said:


> :bs:Call me greedy or an idiot... Okay, BOTH! :heart:Briano, I love your pics, but for the life of me I am not quite sure just what I am looking for... You get the jist. Is there a way to add some sort of photo editing function to the site? Circles, arrows, etc., in the same way we are able to underline, _italicize_, *embolden* or otherwise *affect*_ text_ *in posts*. Kam has spoken of doing a definitive ground wiring plan but it's a lot of work. I've seen her work as well as that of others on the vacuum distributor switch -- the HVAC control "thingy", it's sensational yet still a work in progress. As am I come to think of it. Am I asking for "unobtanium" here, I don't think I've ever seen this on a site; is it even possible? :what:


Work in progress? :sly: Put a fork in that HVAC diagram 'cuz it's as done as it's gonna get. Just need to put the link to it back on the site since it somehow got left out during the upgrade. :facepalm:

FYI: The previously-provided link to the ground points changed; I just now updated it in my previous post: http://www.cabby-info.com/electrical.htm#Ground .

FWIW, here is what the factory battery-to-frame-to-trans cable looks like:








(disregard the cut section; I cut the cable rather than removing the air box/fuel distributor to get the cable out)

If your ground cable(s) look like this:








...replace it/them! Consider putting the new cables inside wire looms to protect them from grease and other contaminants.

I just got through replacing the main grounds on my Vanagon (they were disgusting), and cleaning up all other ground connections, as well as the alternator connections (van spent its life along the CA coast; every metal thing in it has a bit of corrosion on it). Took it for a drive yesterday and noticed that the dash lights are brighter!  Moral of this story: Head to your local paint department, grab a wire brush or two and get to cleaning your electrical connections! (Disconnect battery first!)


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## yellorado (Oct 8, 2001)

quick question for y'all: i have a 9a engine swapped in, now i still included the cowl to valve cover ground strap but im questioning myself as if its actually doing any good since the valve cover and head on a 16v is aluminum...

so, is it serving a purpose? or should i just ground on steel, ie: block or trans?


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

The head on an 8v is aluminum also....I'm keeping that ground strap.
Aluminum conducts very well.


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## teknikALLEN (Jul 14, 2010)

Having a hard time finding these....


briano1234 said:


> I am missing a few pics, Inside the Cabin on the firewall there are Star connectors that are riveted to the Frame.
> The have the majority of grounds. Don 't have a pic.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

They are behind the dash, if you take out the Fascia and the instrument cluster you will find them.


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## Moljinar (Sep 20, 2001)

The ground stars behind the dash are important. The main one next to the fuseblock has the fuel injection system grounds and the dash grounds on it. The failure of this ground is the main reason for your dash voltmeter reading poorly. When our cars were new this ground point was fine but over the years the heavy current flow combined with whatever leaks you might have from the rain tray make this connection to the frame/chassis somewhat poor. It's a pain to deal with as well. .I've polished the spades on mine and redone some of the connections. I've yet to remove the star and make sure the bolt-to-firewall connection is not corroded etc. If you want to simply make your interior voltmeter read more accurately run a separate ground for it. The voltage circuit it's on isn't overloaded, its the ground.


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## teknikALLEN (Jul 14, 2010)

How about low voltage at the fuel pump?


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## Quanofonic (Feb 25, 2010)

so basically, unscrew and rescrew? major noob here when it comes to grounds. or am i replacing the entire wire?


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## RVAE34 (Jul 13, 2010)

How about the alternator ground? I have a spare alt for my wife's 83 cabby and it has a large ground strap coming from a threaded stud on the alt body (lower right side when looking at it positioned on the car with A/C. But the one in the car just has the spare threaded stud with no ground strap attached.


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## s2kvondeutschland (Mar 19, 2011)

Quanofonic said:


> so basically, unscrew and rescrew? major noob here when it comes to grounds. or am i replacing the entire wire?


You want to replaced the whole wire.


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## iamdagerman (Feb 19, 2006)

I replaced all my battery grounds with 12 guage wire


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## rabbitnothopper (Oct 19, 2009)

kamzcab86 said:


> FWIW, here is what the factory battery-to-frame-to-trans cable looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




why think we need to replace this one especially?
mine is 35 years old from the factory (77-78) and seems to work fine
checked ohms on it and was almost zero
its just copper! copper is old as the universe right?!
guess i can agree to coat it or get one that is already black rubber coated

thanks for info guys


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## DEGS (Nov 13, 2010)

I was dumb and bought 2 gauge wire instead of...4? for my batt to frame to tranny. Didn't end up replacing most wires as they seemed to be good once I cut off the parts that were corroded and green once I stripped them back. Replaced all of the terminals with gold plated ones and soldered them in. Does all old wiring carry more resistance, or have I accomplished something?


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

DEGS said:


> Replaced all of the terminals with gold plated ones and soldered them in. Does all old wiring carry more resistance, or have I accomplished something?


Electrons travel the path of least resistance; corrosion, dirt, grime, tarnish = resistance. So, yes, you actually do accomplish something by cleaning and/or replacing electrical contacts/cables (both ground and power). Your electrical system is a little happier now. :thumbup:

My Cab's ground cable was clean compared to my van's. :facepalm: Replaced the van's main cables, cleaned up most of the electrical connections in the engine bay (and elsewhere throughout the van), which resulted in brighter lights. Still need to clean the ECU and starter contacts.


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## gtidaddy (Sep 18, 2004)

good write up on a most needed topic. good thread Briano.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Kammy, you forgot the Ground on the Fan motors, both the Radiator cooling, and the heater blower...


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## hyperlightboards48 (Nov 30, 2010)

So im finally going to get around to doing this. But, dont know anything about wire/wiring can i get all the stuff i need to do this at the parts store? or can i just order a set of ground cables for cheap? 


1. Where do i get the flat braided wire?
2. Brian in your picture of the battery ground it looks like you made your cable using two cables. one from battery to frame then frame to tranny.... or is this just different from digi to cis?
3. Is this a simple as just buy wire and crimp ends on them?
4. any one know off the top of there heads houw much and what gauge wire i should buy?

sorry for the dumb questions i just want to make sure i do this right and not come up with new problems


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*1. Where do i get the flat braided wire?*
A good Electric store, but you can use regular 14 ga wire, with crimp on connectors.

*2. Brian in your picture of the battery ground it looks like you made your cable using two cables. one from battery to frame then frame to tranny.... or is this just different from digi to cis?*

I used 2 off the shelf cables from my Auto parts store, one from the battery to the frame and one from the frame to the engine/tranny.

*3. Is this a simple as just buy wire and crimp ends on them?*

Yep.... 14Ga is good for the bonding wires.

*4. any one know off the top of there heads houw much and what gauge wire i should buy?*
A spool of wire from your AutoStore should be fine.

The battery cables, you should remove and measure,, I think Kammy's site has the measurement.


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## hyperlightboards48 (Nov 30, 2010)

Oh okay great, simpler than i thought. 

I like your idea with the off-the shelf cables... looks really heavy duty

When I bought the car the guy said it would die while turning... turns out the battery ground wasn't attached the frame... I'm thinking that it would make and break contact and short out when turning. I attached it now and it hasn't died on me yet (knock on wood)


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## sehaare (Aug 4, 2003)

hyperlightboards48 said:


> Oh okay great, simpler than i thought.
> 
> I like your idea with the off-the shelf cables... looks really heavy duty
> 
> When I bought the car the guy said it would die while turning... turns out the battery ground wasn't attached the frame... I'm thinking that it would make and break contact and short out when turning. I attached it now and it hasn't died on me yet (knock on wood)


:thumbup:


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## theNamesRuss (Dec 13, 2009)

Holly Molly! 

I'd better start back at the battery and check everything up through the hood hinge and on into the cab!! 

Thanks once again, briano1234!


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## rabbitnothopper (Oct 19, 2009)

so...briano, you do good work here in the cabriolet forums 
why dont you ever hop over into the golf1 forums? 
thanks for your efforts!! 

and, i know not all of these grounds are present in all mk1 
so question is, why are there more in a cabriolet than a rabbit? 

is it advised to add more grounds to say...an early rabbit? 


i know for certain i dont have half of those grounds 

one last good note: 
a flat ground strap is extremely good even if it has surface corrosion 
they can be easily cleaned and painted to prevent further oxidation


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*so...briano, you do good work here in the cabriolet forums 
why dont you ever hop over into the golf1 forums? 
thanks for your efforts!!* 

Because I don't do Golfs  .... Well ok I have been driving mk1's since 1980 (Rabbit Diesel LS) owned off the showroom, and driven daily for 20 years. 

But as I am a dedicated Cabriolet driver... and it is friendlier here....


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## K1TTEN M1TTEN (May 18, 2012)

Interesting... I am new Cabby owner as well, and a co-worker turned me to this site. Looks like I have a lot of work ahead of me :laugh: So I did not know about the AC to Alt ground either... when I bought the car I was told the AC compressor did not work, so it is currently unplugged as if it plugged in, it will blow a fuse. Could this be a result of simply a bad ground then? Or is it more likely the AC compressor is actually done for and time for a new one?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Depends it is probably the clutch or something....Compressors do go bad.


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## dave93cab (Jun 26, 2012)

Just replaced the main ground cable with 1/0 AWG (overkill, yep but I had some around!). 

My voltmeter reads a nice 14V with no lights and about 13.5 with lights. If the meter is to be believed I gained at least a volt  Relaying my headlights is the next one and looking at the other grounds. 

I came back and looked at these pictures and the bottom end of the cable is not attached to the tranny like the pics, it was attached to a 17mm bolt on the engine block sort of above and to the back of where the pic says the stud is. I'm guessing the stud is broken. It's dark out I'll go out and try to snap some pics. Problemo with this?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

No the engine stud was used on some cars, and the tranny mount bolt was used on others. There is no issue as long as it is a good ground to the engine/tranny.


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## dave93cab (Jun 26, 2012)

Thanks briano! :beer:


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## shortwave360 (Jul 6, 2008)

I'm about to go through the Cabby and Jetta I own. Thank you for posting this info it will make the task easier and complete from the get go. Can't wait to take the poll and find all the differences in performance. :snowcool:


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## tinygiant (Mar 17, 2012)

Replaced the negative battery terminal yesterday and brushed the ground points.. figured its about time i work my way through the grounds. Bought a new 4g battery terminal cable and another 4g cable to go from the post to the tranny. 

i noticed my fender to ECU tray ground was undone.. so i reattached that. and also noticed that my coil to valve cover ground was not attached.. we must have forgotten to attach it when we did the valve cover last summer. 

I already noticed a big difference over what the car felt like yesterday. the stutter is still there but its very faint. I have to hunt down a couple other grounds and make sure they exist too  


I noticed a couple things. usually my ODO volt meter is somewhere between 12 and 14 now the meter is almost touching the 14v when the car is running. 

my idle is definitely smoother too.. who would have thought.. lol idk y i put this off for so long. 








Old cable


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## tinygiant (Mar 17, 2012)

I bought some lucas oil fuel system cleaner and added that to the tank.. figure some could be injector related.. who knows.. couldnt hurt to try it out


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## rabbitnothopper (Oct 19, 2009)

briano you didnt post my cables! 









the unprotected cable came out of my 78, the 2 coated ones were from my 81 

i used 2 cables: 
19inches 4ga, 24inch 6ga 

cheap and effective 
but reaching that one under the airbox on the frame....its the worst


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## tinygiant (Mar 17, 2012)

rabbitnothopper said:


> briano you didnt post my cables!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 i didnt know that there was a stud under the airbox when i started taking that negative terminal off.. so i cut it and tried to feed it under the air box.. after accomplishing that i realized there was another bolt under there.. so i just took the bottom of the airbox out and held up the rest as i socket wrenched off the nut. wasnt too bad.. but sucks when the car is really low lol. back is still a little sore from leaning over and wrenching stuff for a couple hours


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## omega23607 (Jan 23, 2013)

*Please*



Darter said:


> I gotta say, the one thing that's been difficult for this new cabby owner in regards to addressing grounds is specifically what points they connect to. I've discovered a number of these grounds to be *missing* on my car, so I'm left scratching my head as to what "valve cover to coil" or "one on the steering column" mean (I know what these parts are, but my coil has at least one extra spade on it... does it connect there? Which valve cover stud is correct, or is there a separate ground anchor?).
> 
> Eventually the answers turn up after lengthy search sessions, but the info is not readily available (though briano's mantra is  ). What's more, I haven't found a complete list anywhere, but many threads with different locations mentioned.
> 
> ...


If you can do a write up on a 1987 jetta gli 1.8L 8v wiring grounds (with photos) would be GREATLY appreciated


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## Mo' (May 3, 2013)

rabbitnothopper said:


> why think we need to replace this one especially?
> mine is 35 years old from the factory (77-78) and seems to work fine
> checked ohms on it and was almost zero
> its just copper! copper is old as the universe right?!
> ...


"Seems" and "Ohms" are key failure terms on this particular topic.
1st, replace and electrical things WILL "Seem" better.
You cannot tell the true electrical condition of a cable just by looking, nor by ohm testing alone, although sure, if ohms are high such a cable is obviously junk.

A wire/cable can ohm just fine and still be junk.
Short of replacing, a proper and effective test is voltage drop across the cable when under load.

One typical, specific voltage drop test goes like this;
Connect DVOM negative lead to battery ground, positive lead to engine ground, if the DVOM has a peak hold feature, use it. Operate the starter (the 'load' part of the test and take a reading, peak/hold will capture it. Anything over 0.5 VDC is excessive, anything under 0.1 DVC is almost impossible no matter how new and good the cable and it's connections are.
You'll likely notice no drop at all while there is no load.
Hopefully, this ^ inflates a huge AHA! cartoon balloon overhead for you.
Other ground and power circuits require various creative solutions to load the circuits while voltage drop testing.

Also consider, especially on flat, braided, non-insulated cables, electrons actually flow on the surface of a conductor. Aside from the obvious flexibility benefits of a braided cable over a solid conductor, a braided wire/cable can carry a lot more current than a solid in the same space with the same weight.






.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Mo, I think you are missing the point of this thread. The ground cables in the Rabbit/Cabriolet are were unprotected. I will agree that the current in a wire moves on the outside versus the inside diameter of the wire, we don't need to go in depth in electronics and propagation in conductors for our cars.

However: This is to bring awareness to an obvious point of "place a new end on it and forget it" mentality to battery cables that most seem to think it is a big honking cable and never goes bad...

The major issue with older braided unshielded wires is that corrosion occurs between the strands. The effect of a unprotected wire (BARE) in a northern climate where salt on the roads enables corrosion to start unseen and can exacerbates the issue. This build up of corrosion acts as a insulator between the braids. This reduces the current capacity of the braided wire down to parallel single strands of wire. In some extreme cases there can be the start of intergrainular corrosion in the wire itself. 

I have seen wires that ohm good cold, but as they start to conduct they get more and more resistive. Or where the battery to frame point is good, but the engine to frame is extremely bad.
and electrons find a new path to ground.

The point of the thread is that getting a good ground on your car and engine prevents the electrons from finding other ways to ground, as in Clutch cables, Speedometer cables, Sensor qrounds via the ECU.... My thread was started as a reminder to replace your grounds on a 20-30 year old car so you don't smoke other things while trying to run the starter....


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

My 92 cabby wouldn't start yesterday...so I went check it out.
Found that mice had eaten the insulation on the battery to starter wire....and the starter relay wire.

Tossed out both the battery positive and negative..put new heavy cables. Replaced the starter relay wire...

Charged car...voila....


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## Mo' (May 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Mo, I think you are missing the point of this thread. The ground cables in the Rabbit/Cabriolet are were unprotected. I will agree that the current in a wire moves on the outside versus the inside diameter of the wire, we don't need to go in depth in electronics and propagation in conductors for our cars.
> 
> However: This is to bring awareness to an obvious point of "place a new end on it and forget it" mentality to battery cables that most seem to think it is a big honking cable and never goes bad...
> 
> ...


briano12134, I thought that what you just posted was about the same as what I just posted, just phrased differently.
Am I missing something else here?


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## A4Quattrot (Jul 4, 2008)

I'm planning on replacing all my cables before I finish the rebuild.

My local auto parts store carries universal replacements (in red/black), but I'd prefer something more OEM looking and heavy duty. 

For many of the grounds they use flat wire, which is to make it more bendable without breaking. The replacements I've seen for these are super cheap looking and lack any sort of insulation.

I've been looking for some replacements, perhaps OEM cables from a different car. I found volvo cables on FCPeuro that look like they might possibly work.

If anyone has pictures of their new oem cables, custom cables, aftermarket cables... etc. that would be cool to see.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

A4Quattrot said:


> I'm planning on replacing all my cables before I finish the rebuild.
> 
> My local auto parts store carries universal replacements (in red/black), but I'd prefer something more OEM looking and heavy duty.
> 
> ...


I'm upgrading the main battery cables on my '82 with MK3 cables. Newer/better materials and nice locations to tie in accessory stuffs.


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## A4Quattrot (Jul 4, 2008)

You find any cheap places? I bought a NOS alternator cable and WS thinking about going the same route with mk3 pos/neg battery cables.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

A4Quattrot said:


> You find any cheap places? I bought a NOS alternator cable and WS thinking about going the same route with mk3 pos/neg battery cables.
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


Not yet, just test fitting with used pieces at the moment.


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## mattchirhart (Aug 21, 2012)

You are the higher power I believe in. :bow: What are the odds that replacing them all will fix my no start issue I'm dealing with? I just replaced my dizzy, cap, rotor and timed it all. I also threw in a new lamda relay and i cant get a start, it only sometimes cranks. :banghead:


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## tolusina (Oct 19, 2004)

mattchirhart said:


> You are the higher power I believe in. :bow: What are the odds that replacing them all will fix my no start issue I'm dealing with? I just replaced my dizzy, cap, rotor and timed it all. I also threw in a new lamda relay and i cant get a start, it only sometimes cranks. :banghead:


From the timing thread...........


tolusina said:


> I've no idea what a MK2 2.0 dizzy is, but never mind that for now.
> First question, why did you remove/replace the old distributor?
> 2nd, does the car have spark?


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## flipty (Mar 5, 2012)

The way I did mine was by getting two cables: A 24" battery cable, and a 8 or 9" negative cable. You can get both at ANY auto parts store. Just make sure the battery cable has got the right clamp for your battery posts.

The short cable, it should just have two flat ends with a hole in each. The battery and short ground cable should be both the same gauge.

You'll need to take out your battery as well as taking out the air box. You'll need to remove the big plastic shaped pipe that goes from the air box to the throttle body, the roughly inch-thick air hose that goes from the side of the air box to the valve cover, and also the air intake hose from the very bottom corner of the air box (the one that for me looked like home air ducting, a little)

Then undo the top of the airbox and give yourself some room to work. I did this by tying the lid of the airbox (with the fuel distributor still attached) aloft. You could also have a helper just hold it out of the way. Then, the back side of the air box (the side facing the drivers' seat) there's another one of those clips similar to the one that held the top of the airbox. That's what makes it hard to remove from the frame of the car. The headlight-side of it is just some rubber grommets, they won't give you too much guff..

Once the airbox is gone you'll see exactly where the old battery negative cable is going, and you just need to get some ratchets and/or wrenches in there to un-do. 

Take the old cable out (it's bolted to the frame and also to the transmission) and clean the heck out of the bolt-posts with a wire brush, brake cleaner, carb cleaner, WD-40, all of the above, whatever... then you'll basically need to recreate that nasty old negative cable out of your two new ones. It's relatively simple.


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## mattchirhart (Aug 21, 2012)

tolusina said:


> From the timing thread...........


I got an distributor off a 90 jetta 2.0l. The part number matches but the o-ring sits slightly different. Yes I had a spark, but my hall sender was brittle and broke off. I didn't want to screw around disassembling the old distributor. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk


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## power_house (May 1, 2005)

So I notice in the OP that you show ground from the frame rail to the trans, is that a substitute for frame rail to the top if the trans mount? Are these two interchangeable? Just curious, I'm sorting out a rat nest and just want the best solution.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Depending on where our car was grounded, the Automatics and Diesel Rabbits had a studded bolt that attached the Transmission to the engine, on the rear upper bolt.
They attached the ground for the engine there and then back to the frame horn stud.
On Manual transmissions most folks bolt the ground to the transmission mount bracket where the bracket attaches to the Transmission and then back to the fame horn stud. 

That stud is also the attachment point for the battery to frame ground.

The original cable from VW was a one piece cable from the battery to the frame, then connection lug to the frame and the same cable to the engine.

You can use 2 separate cables that are off the shelf from the parts store of your choice, one from the battery to the fame, then a jumper cable from the frame to the transmission.

Be sure that you clean the frame horn stud with a wire brush, and bolt the 2 cables there, then spray the connection with some battery protection coating to prevent corrosion.



my original cable to the frame horn. 


It is actually green on the inside strands which denote intergrainular corrosion in the cable, that isn't a good thing and the strands start to insulate from each other increasing the resistance of the cable.

Where the cable attaches to my Automatic.


Attaching the 2 off the shelf cables at the frame horn.


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## ordway71 (Dec 20, 2014)

briano1234 said:


> I Read http://www.gabma.us/elec/proper_grounding.pdf , and he is about 3 miles up the road from me.... He must of read some of my posts...


Reading through this write-up, it stresses the negatives to using the frame as a ground. I realize it is written for a motorcycle, but is there any upside to creating single point grounds with the Cabriolets? Or, is just replacing and cleaning existing ground points good enough?

Right now, I have the interior of my car completely opened up, so now would be an ideal time for me to address any ground issues and make improvements. Just thought I would ask for advice and clarification.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

ordway71 said:


> Reading through this write-up, it stresses the negatives to using the frame as a ground. I realize it is written for a motorcycle, but is there any upside to creating single point grounds with the Cabriolets? Or, is just replacing and cleaning existing ground points good enough?
> 
> Right now, I have the interior of my car completely opened up, so now would be an ideal time for me to address any ground issues and make improvements. Just thought I would ask for advice and clarification.


The frame can and should be used as a ground.
The contact points for the Frame are either Star connectors as the ones on the inside cabin fire wall have to be clean and tight.
The major frame point for the body is on the drivers side front frame horn below the battery.
From that attachment point is the main connect for the battery and the main connect for the engine/tranny.

All other grounds, are either screw-ins, connectors, bolts, or below nuts throughout the car.
There are no negatives from proper grounding, no matter where you want to do it.


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## 84Westfalia (Feb 18, 2010)

Is the ECU grounded to the ECU bracket with bolts and nuts? Mine just have two Philips screws holding the ECU to the bracket and it is in the plastic part of the ECU so their is no solid metal to metal contact between the ECU and the ECU bracket. Thanks


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

84Westfalia said:


> Is the ECU grounded to the ECU bracket with bolts and nuts? Mine just have two Philips screws holding the ECU to the bracket and it is in the plastic part of the ECU so their is no solid metal to metal contact between the ECU and the ECU bracket. Thanks


Yes, the ECU screws in to the bracket, and the edge of the connector end touches the metal as well. 
The Bracket is bolted to the inner Rain tray at the top and then the nylon push latch at the bottom. The top screws are into nylon inserts, so the bracket is 
Grounded by a Strap or wire. My strap was dubious, corroded so I opted for a Wire.


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## 84Westfalia (Feb 18, 2010)

briano1234 said:


> Yes, the ECU screws in to the bracket, and the edge of the connector end touches the metal as well.
> The Bracket is bolted to the inner Rain tray at the top and then the nylon push latch at the bottom. The top screws are into nylon inserts, so the bracket is
> Grounded by a Strap or wire. My strap was dubious, corroded so I opted for a Wire.


thank you! The ground wire from the ECU to the engine block was just hanging too. I think that one is specific to the California model.


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## Seax_Smith (Jun 1, 2007)

bump because this needs to see the surface once in a while.


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## JakeMk2 (Dec 1, 2016)

cool!


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## sehaare (Aug 4, 2003)

When I first got my car I got the idea that grounds were pretty important on these models when I saw the one gauge grounding wire that a previous owner had installed between the engine and the chassis.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

sehaare said:


> When I first got my car I got the idea that grounds were pretty important on these models when I saw the one gauge grounding wire that a previous owner had installed between the engine and the chassis.


That wouldn't be as much of a Grounding wire as it was a Torque Limiter... 
Thought that someone needs to read this occasionally.


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## h0yitsdom (Sep 25, 2009)

bumping this old thread. 

I just picked up an 82 1.7 cis cabby. been having cold start issues and figured I'd start off with checking out the grounds.

I have 3 seperate brown wire ring terminals connected to my main neg battery post. 1 runs up to the rain gutter and then hooks into another harness/wire bundle. 1 goes to a fan, and the other one looks to be heading towards the headlights. Is this normal? 

I have found all of the other grounds and cleaned them EXCEPT...I have nothing from the ECU bracket in the rain gutter, no wire or bolt or anything where it looks like one would have been? There is a hole in the firewall somewhat nearby but nothing attached to it. I also have not been able to see the fuse panel ground but I am assuming that is behind the entire dash board. 


My main issues with the car is the really bad cold start (have to crank around 10 times sometimes) and tachometer is 100% dead.

The bentley refers to wire #15 as "Insulated ground wire"...not sure where this actually is


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## CabbyMagoo (Sep 5, 2016)

Is there a list or a map of the grounds and where do I get the replacements? THanks


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Wow 6 years 4 pages, and 35K views...... Dang.....

And we thought the Electric Window one was large.... After all they are just grounds.... nothing hidden, or Secret about this.


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## DeathJuice (Apr 25, 2016)

*Thank ya'll*

I've read enough, I've seen enough, and in the rat/bird-nest/hobo-camp that is under my hood and my dash...

I'm going to label every wire that is currently connected to something. 

I'm going to detach all of those wires. 

I'm going to clean all of the grounds that I find.

I'm going to fix any shorts, and I'm going to make my wiring harness look clean and make sense.


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## vwbobby (Apr 5, 2009)

I find this section informative, educational, enlightening, refreshing and rewarding B E C A U S E electrical malfunctions on the many VWs I have owned (and 1 Porsche) had electrical issues. Maybe one or 2 didn't... but it was going to happen, eventually. Reading and understanding this section might bring me back into the fold.


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## vwbobby (Apr 5, 2009)

I did some serious research and found something on youtube that the audio folks are doing along the line of something called "How to Install the Big 3" by Sonic Electronix. Go there and watch it; you will be amazed. Also, the flexible 4 to 8 Gauge wire is all over Amazon and it is very affordable. I am upgrading my battery terminals to Xscorpion terminals which uses bare cable into sockets that are tightened up with hex screws. Great stuff indeed.


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## DeathJuice (Apr 25, 2016)

*good call THE BIG 3*



vwbobby said:


> "How to Install the Big 3" by Sonic Electronix.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

2ga welding cable from the battery positive to the starter, 4ga from the starter to the alternator. 2ga welding cable from the battery ground to the body and continue to the transmission [one piece]. Crimp and solder all the connections.

Welding cable is much easier to deal with [flexibility] and looked better when I was completed since ran mine slightly different than stock. I elected to run a larger gauge due to the upgraded 140A alternator.


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## vwbobby (Apr 5, 2009)

Butcher said:


> 2ga welding cable from the battery positive to the starter, 4ga from the starter to the alternator. 2ga welding cable from the battery ground to the body and continue to the transmission [one piece]. Crimp and solder all the connections.
> 
> Welding cable is much easier to deal with [flexibility] and looked better when I was completed since ran mine slightly different than stock. I elected to run a larger gauge due to the upgraded 140A alternator.


Just curious. How do you make the 2ga battery ground to body then to transmission as one piece? Would the strut tower qualify as the body?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

vwbobby said:


> Just curious. How do you make the 2ga battery ground to body then to transmission as one piece? Would the strut tower qualify as the body?


There are various connections that you can use, but the average ones from a parts store work just fine.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Pretty much the same as the factory one but larger gauge and soldered. In the middle of the cable, there is a connector that is soldered to the cable. No, the cable was not cut for the middle connector. Just stripped the insulation, crimped and soldered.


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## TeamPeña (Nov 18, 2014)

About to dive into this project tomorrow. Did the AC delete as per Molinar and now my Tach is dead? Going through all grounds and most likely replacing the cluster with a used one I have. Thanks Brian!


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## Seax_Smith (Jun 1, 2007)

Good to see this thread back up on the surface.
Then again you can tell them, but you can't make them listen.


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## vwbobby (Apr 5, 2009)

Now, I can see how I'm going to make a rain trough... from sheet metal. Maybe put some powder coating on it to channel "rain" away from the electrical items. VW should have designed this better to begin with. Just saying. Bobby


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## vwbobby (Apr 5, 2009)

Over the weekend I bought some Dollar store clear coat - as mentioned in the above video, "How to Install the Big 3", to coat the newly established grounds. I use the product, Liquid Tape, to cover and exposed wire. Just Saying. Bobby


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## MacGruber (Aug 20, 2010)

After all these years nearly all the engine compartment wire is shot from Corrosion Creep - from the terminal end up towards the firewall. Maybe 3 inches maybe 18 inches. The wires on the cylinder head. The fuel pumps too. 

Coincidentally went with a sidepost battery - no more mess of grounds right there. 
I made a new "battery ground junction" at the unibody threaded boss on inner fender at the transmission, originally just for the transmission ground strap.
New sidepost battery cable to that.

Why ground anything to the (hot) engine instead of the battery?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

MacGruber said:


> After all these years nearly all the engine compartment wire is shot from Corrosion Creep - from the terminal end up towards the firewall. Maybe 3 inches maybe 18 inches. The wires on the cylinder head. The fuel pumps too.
> 
> Coincidentally went with a sidepost battery - no more mess of grounds right there.
> I made a new "battery ground junction" at the unibody threaded boss on inner fender at the transmission, originally just for the transmission ground strap.
> ...


The Battery to Frame post under the Air intake on the CIS and Digifant when cleaned and shiny, is a great place to ground, from there with the original one piece cable that tied it to the engine/bellhousing was done on my 81 Diesel, and my 92, and 93 Autos, and any Auto I came across in the yards over the years. But on my 90 Cabriolet they grounded from the frame post to the Transmission mount bolts on the Transmission. Either one Bellhousing to engine or Transmission are a good place to ground and out of the way, however, when using the tranny mounting bolts you had batter make sure that your bolts that bolt to the engine from the bell housing are clean as well as the holes in the block, using some Never-Seize will insure corrosion free bolt from the differential metals that may occur.
This is why the Bellhousing bolt on my 81, and 92, as well as my 93, where a double studded bolt..So you would only have the differential corrosion from the lead covered grounding strap to the steel bolt and nut, but not between the bolt the ground cable and the aluminum of the bellhousing.

The purpose of this thread was to tell you that good grounds are a good thing and a valuable way to insure that you have minimum flakiness of your electrical system.

The real test is Voltage or Current drops....where the Battery at 13V to ground is 12.5 on the block or other various component that you measure.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

briano1234 said:


> The real test is Voltage or Current drops....where the Battery at 13V to ground is 12.5 on the block or other various component that you measure.


I must be wearing on you, I've pushed that for years with a lot of resistance [pun intended]. A simple voltage drop test will determine if you are really fixing things or just doing maintenance.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Butcher said:


> I must be wearing on you, I've pushed that for years with a lot of resistance [pun intended]. A simple voltage drop test will determine if you are really fixing things or just doing maintenance.


Nope. I know more about Ground effects and Transmission, whether it be Data, Voltage, or Current than most of the folks here including you. I have seen some terrible accidents caused by improper grounding, or running of Different Phases off of different transformers from Poles in to a building that have Caused Serious Issues with Computers, Cars, Airplanes over the years. 

While you say to test for voltage drops on 30 year old cars, I say replace the things as they are worn out, and probably are the last thing you would replace or clean the connections on, to me it is one of the first things I look at replace/ or clean out of hand.... Voltage is felt, Current flows corroded connections or wires impede that... Voltage is only the indication of a possible issue. It doesn't mean there is one...it means there is the chance that there is, I just take preventative action to eliminate them before they become a snake that bites me in the arse on a new to me car......unless it is new to me out of the showroom.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

That may be true but most of the stuff you think you know does not apply to a simple 12V circuit. Not much data being sent in a standard Cabriolet. So what you may know is irrelevant and impractical.

All I've ever said is that tests are the way to solve problems. Whenever my clients ask me to fix things, I cannot go about it following your recommendations. I LISTEN to their issue and I perform tests to narrow down the cause. I simply cannot go about replacing a bunch of parts because they are old. That's not what the average client wants. 

If the test is very complex/time consuming, sometimes it's just easier to replace vs test. That is very very rare. When it comes to a voltage drop test, it's too simple and fast tot o make that test. 

Problems and maintenance are two different things. If you want to replace the wiring in your car for maintenance, have at it. It's probably a good idea since I believe the power/ground supply wires are too small from the factory. 

If you want to fix something, perform some tests. Know that what you are doing is helpful. As you mentioned, ground is as important as power and sometime people forget that. Performing a simple voltage drop test will tell you right now if that is your problem or it's time to test something else.

So when people ask for help with a problem, telling them how to maintain their car seems a bit odd. That is all. 

I do not think either one of us are offering bad advice. Just different ways to get to the root cause. Most technicians [and people in general] want the easy answer. It was my job as a Shop Foreman to get the techs to test. Those that grasped that concept were some of the best around. The ones that did not were just a bunch of hacks that replaced a bunch of parts until the problem is resolved. 

I just read a lot of threads where people ask for help and they are told just to throw a bunch of parts on it. What happens when you run out of money/time replacing parts and still have the same problem? Is that when you start to perform tests?

Just sharing my opinion.


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## VdubzJetta (Dec 16, 2010)

Where can we order a set of wires to change all the main grounds? I know it’s an old post but I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. Thanks!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

VdubzJetta said:


> Where can we order a set of wires to change all the main grounds? I know it’s an old post but I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. Thanks!


Well I got myself to a good hardware store and bought a bunch of solderable amp connectors as well as heat shrink and a big sool of brown shielded wire.
For the main battery cables I went to the Auto store and got off the shelf ones ran then as battery to frame, and a battery jumper from frame to the engine/tranny.

If your existing wires are good cleaning the connections is one of the better things you can do.
Off loading hi-current items as in the Heat Soak Relay, and Lamp relay increase the life of your Ignition / Headlight switches, as well as increasing the brightness of your head lamps.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

I would highly recommend to replace all the grounds and main power cables with welding cable. They have a few different gauges and is highly flexible. Check what Del City has. Find some good solder type battery connectors [remember there are power and ground connectors] and have at it. Done right, there will be no compromises and you can make the cable to the exact length you want. 
https://www.delcity.net/productsearch?search=battery lugs

I would run a large gauge power cable [#2] to the starter and run a smaller gauge [#4] to the alternator, instead of running two cables. Makes a little neater under the hood. I would run a large gauge ground wire from the engine to the battery. I would run a smaller gauge from the engine to the body. You'll need some heat to solder the cable ends, a propane torch is idea. If you have not mastered soldering, you should practice first. 

Buying the standard cables you get at the local box store are not that flexible. They're never the exact size so compromises are always made. The battery clamps are rarely the right size for the battery posts. Usually it's one size fits all. The power and ground posts are different sizes.


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## primosupremo (Sep 18, 2020)

I'm replying here because I did not want to start a new thread about grounds because there are certainly enough. Is there a recommended replacement ground for the valve cover to firewall(via coil bolt) or can I use 10ga insulated copper wire?

thanks


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Yes just make sure there is sufficient length so that it has room to move with the torque of the engine.


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## primosupremo (Sep 18, 2020)

Thanks briano


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