# Changing 2.5L engine - Need advice



## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

*Changing 2.5L engine*

Is it possible to change a 2.5L from 2008 in a 2005 new model Jetta? I know both engine types are different, meaning different computers and harnass.

Has anyone done this before, and can anyone give me some pointers on what to be careful for when changing engines, even when both engines are the same type.

Thanks,
Mike


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## HIBB 304 (Nov 8, 2008)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5314602-swapping-motors
:thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Lol, he did a 05.5 to an 08...

Dunno how much more specific it can be! Lol.

Althou I dunno what did he have to do electrically to make it work.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

WOW! Thanks, even the color of the car is the same.....


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

If they are both 2.5L's, then the ECU will be the same ME7.1.1, because the ME17.5 wasn't used until 2009 onward. Wiring harnesses would be slightly different, between BGP and CBTA that is.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Actually, I am wondering a little. As the 05/2 engines are different than the 08 engines, you probably need another ECU and wiring harness.

Am I correct?

I am also thinking to capture the pics of my swap. Can't have enough examples, right?


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

When doing that motor swap of the 08 CBTA into my original 05.5 BGP car, I used the same 05.5 ECU and the 08 engine harness that came with the new engine. Was that necessary to make the swap successful? I don't think so, but I don't know. 

Someone like Josh from Nothing Leaves Stock (NLS) or other shops would maybe be able to provide the feed back if it would be required to make the swap work.

Good luck with the project though:wave:


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

alwaysdutch said:


> Actually, I am wondering a little. As the 05/2 engines are different than the 08 engines, you probably need another ECU and wiring harness.
> 
> Am I correct?
> 
> I am also thinking to capture the pics of my swap. Can't have enough examples, right?


Well the stock software for the earlier 2.5L's may be different perhaps, but prior to the ME17.5 ECU use 2009 onward, ALL previous BGP, BGQ, CBTA and CBUA 2.5L's used the ME17.1.1. So the ECU is the same hardware and pinout.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

So I have decided to do this, but finding an engine from 2007 with pretty low mileage is not as easy as it looks. If anyone has a trustful place to go, let me know.

Are there other parts that I should replace while I am doing this?

Thanks,
Michael


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

Nothing Leaves Stock has a 2007 engine for sale. Maybe you will be interested in it

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...arness-and-ecu&highlight=complete+engine+swap


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Well, that would be a possibility, but I have all the other parts that are included. Not sure if I can swap the wiring harness and ECU out for a newer engine.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

So when you replaced the ECU and Wiring, how easy was that and how much time was needed? I am a typical DIY that learns as I go, so it will take a bit of time.


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

Well I didn't replace the ECU- just had to get to it so I could disconnect the original wiring harness. As for the new wiring harness, the new engine I bought came with the wire harness still installed onto it, so all i had to do was fish the harness through the bay up to the ECU. 

I took the wiring harness off my original engine and I was not hard at all. You should be fine taking it off and transferring it onto a new engine.

Here is a picture for reference - you can see there's not much to the harness.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks for the image! I was thinking more of the large connectors on an ECU and wiring that need to be fished to the engine compartment. Is the ECU under the dash?


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

ECU is inside the plenum chamber, which is also where the window wiper mechanism is located. So basically it is the base of the windshield and back of the engine bay.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Awesome, so in that case I can actually buy an 08 or 09 engine with lower mileage. Sorry for all the questions, but should a different type of engine matter with the DSG transmission that I have now?

Thanks,
Mike


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

alwaysdutch said:


> Awesome, so in that case I can actually buy an 08 or 09 engine with lower mileage. Sorry for all the questions, but should a different type of engine matter with the DSG transmission that I have now?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike


Firstly, if you have any model vehicle with a 2.5L, then you don't have DSG. If you are looking to swap a newer 2.5L into an older Rabbit then any motor will pretty much work as long as you use the wiring harness, ecu and other ancillary parts from your original. i.e., just swapping in a new long motor.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

If you're doing this by choice. I'd drop in a 2.8 or 3.2 vr6 w/02m. :wave:

I once watched a guy drop a 3.2 24v into his beetle in a single car garage, he had never even turned a wrench before. I love legos.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Hey Zevion,

That is incorrect. My 2005 jetta 2.5L has the 6-speed DSG semi auto. That said, I found a motor CBTA, but can anyone tell me if the holes to mount the motor is the same as on the BGF type?


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

You have an automatic if you have not swapped in a DSG unit. I don't even know if that's possible but we haven't seen it done yet. You're dense if you want DSG anyway. They are expensive, impossible to service, and require software on the aftermarket scene. Totally not worth shaving a couple thousandths off your shift time. Oh did I mention they weigh more than a house?

DSG has a great following and many supporters, puts power to the ground more dynamically than a standard manual transmission. flappy paddle gear boxes suck


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Ok, let's chat here for a second; When I say DSG, I mean the 6-speed semi auto. The motor that I bought was bolted to the same type transmission.

So, I want to replace the older version BGF motor from 05 with a BCTA motor from 08, coming from a vehicle with the same transmission. ECU and wiring is included with the new motor.

So, I am hoping that I can swap that engine without having trouble with the tranny, and I haven't found an exact answer yet if the location of the motor mount holes are the same on both engines.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Well, as much as I would like to experiment, I bought an '08 2.5L with 16K miles on it, and the guys offered the ECU and wiring for free. As I have the fun 2.5L now with a timing chain problem, i am hoping to get better out of this.

I have never swapped engines, so this will be fun. I am planning to make pics of the process as well.


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

alwaysdutch said:


> Well, as much as I would like to experiment, I bought an '08 2.5L with 16K miles on it, and the guys offered the ECU and wiring for free. As I have the fun 2.5L now with a timing chain problem, i am hoping to get better out of this.
> 
> I have never swapped engines, so this will be fun. I am planning to make pics of the process as well.



good luck:beer: I had no experience either but it wasn't that bad. 

The transmissions and mount will bolt up without any problems btw.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

alwaysdutch said:


> Hey Zevion,
> 
> That is incorrect. My 2005 jetta 2.5L has the 6-speed DSG semi auto. That said, I found a motor CBTA, but can anyone tell me if the holes to mount the motor is the same as on the BGF type?


It's a miracle. The only 2.5L Jetta ever made with a DSG.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

ugh...umm yeaa....don't know where to start so i won't.

i'll say 2 things. 
1- don't swap the motors unless the code is the same, the ecu is the same, harness is the same.
2- i DO have a COMPLETE 2.5L swap for sale. make offer.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

My bad on the DSG part. I do not have the tiptronic on the steering wheel.......


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

alwaysdutch said:


> My bad on the DSG part. I do not have the tiptronic on the steering wheel.......


what do you mean? the paddles?

your transmission is an automatic tranny (planetary) called 09G, it uses a torque converter
the DSG is a twin wet clutch tranny.

Tiptronic means that the tranny is a "manumatic" (manual automatic)...but again, it physically is a regular automatic tranny, but on this case you have the option of choosing the gear...

a DSG transmission is another beast altogether. for starters, a DSG is a regular manual transmission, where the clutch was "automatized"... to put it as simple as possible: its a manual transmission without the clutch pedal.

2.5L engine, no matter which code, came with either a 5spd manual or a 6spd automatic. 

YOU have an automatic, which includes the slow shifting, torque converter, sucky performance, the sometimes bad valve body, etc.

oh, and the paddles came with the GTI/GLI DSG steering wheels on GTI/GLI models.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

thygreyt said:


> oh, and the paddles came with the GTI/GLI DSG steering wheels on GTI/GLI models.


And MKV R32


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Agreed, and my apologies for the misunderstanding. Obviously I have to learn a bit more about my own car


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

zevion said:


> And MKV R32


oops... lol totally forgot!


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

Normally I dont try to knock, but I dont see the point of this. You're only going to gain a few torques and a couple of horsepower. It's not like those big time swaps like putting a K-series hybrid engine in an older Honda (for example an EG Civic), or stuffing a V8 into an RX-7. Those swaps I get. You're going to spend alot of money and time doing this swap. I have a better idea. Why not just trade your 05 for an 08 or newer Jetta or Rabbit?


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Well V_dubber, it is not about the few horsepower, but because I have an '05 engine with the timing chain syndrome. I either pay $3K to the dealer to fix it, or spend $1K for an engine with 16K miles versus the 92K miles I have now.

I don't think it is a bad idea at all, considering I have a Jetta with package 2 that looks like new.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

alwaysdutch said:


> Well
> I don't think it is a bad idea at all, considering I have a Jetta with package 2 that looks like new.


it IS a bad idea. don't do it. find a correct motor for it.
is the car running still? if so the dealer is a RIP OFF for 3K for the chain upgrade. we do it for half that.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

So the project has started. I am following pretty much the thread from Pennsydubbin with exception of a few changes, as I am hoping to leave the transmission in.

I got my other engine in on Friday, so now it is all hands on replacing this thing.

Here is what I got:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

is it the same motror and year?


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> is it the same motror and year?


have you had problems with the CAN bus swapping parts around before? others don't seem to be having too many issues.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

jimmi had problems.....


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Nope, this one is a 2008 with 17K miles. Came with original wiring and ECU.....

One part of me said to buy another same engine type to ensure not to have any problems, but then why would I do that for? I got that already an '05 engine and buying another one I take a chance to get the same problem again, or spend $1,000 for this engine and give it a shot.

I guess I should rephrase that; I could use the same engine and fix the timing problem, but I am not sure what was needed for that, so i decided to go this route.

I don't know how this will go. i have never changed an engine, but I hope to find more answers through the forum and make this work somehow.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

there will be things that won't match up and will be incorrect. you will get a CEL as well.....best of luck


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

is jimmi pennsydubbn?


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

pennsydubbin said:


> When doing that motor swap of the 08 CBTA into my original 05.5 BGP car, I used the same 05.5 ECU and the 08 engine harness that came with the new engine. Was that necessary to make the swap successful? I don't think so, but I don't know.
> 
> Someone like Josh from Nothing Leaves Stock (NLS) or other shops would maybe be able to provide the feed back if it would be required to make the swap work.
> 
> Good luck with the project though:wave:


I'm just confused. Are you saying this didn't work out or is jimmi someone else?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

lol, jimmy mauro= PenssyDubbing


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

that's nice in for the frankenstein :thumbup:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

same jimmi.
had codes. hasn't passed emissions yet. cel come one even before the turbo, so it NOT the turbo kit...


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Also interesting to note that the quote stated that he used the original 05 ECU. I have the original 08 ECU as well.

I am not trying to argue the point if it works or not, because I haven't done this before, and I am a bit worried that the connection from the ECU to the dash might have differences, but at this point I have to make this work.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

or ask josh what mk2 to buy and invest in a real swap. :laugh: :thumbup:

old diesel registration don't have to pass smog right?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

can-bus system will not like it.

i can do a 2.5L swap in any car


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

LOL....well, I will keep you in mind.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> can-bus system will not like it.
> 
> i can do a 2.5L swap in any car


lol, doing so in a mk4, 5 or 6 ist really hard...

but on mk1 2 and 3?? thats where its hard... you did it on a mk1... so yes, you should (or we expect you to) be able to do it on any gen.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

I am trying to keep it as simple as possible, no turbo, no kits, so we will see.....Good to know I have some backup...


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

So, first stupid question I have; what is the best/easiest way to drain the coolant? I noticed that i can take the entire front off fairly easy, but the radiator will be included when i pull this part.

Is there a drain plug anywhere? There is a plate that keeps the radiator in place, but that would stop the drain plug.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

You serious? You want to swap a motor that's the wrong motor and make it work yet you can't drain coolant? 

Unclip the lower hose to drain it. 

Yes Fred, mk1-2 don't bolt in so it's a job. We are the only ones yet to do a
Mk1 with oem ecu. But the others aren't fun either because of wiring and ecu coding.


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> same jimmi.
> had codes. *hasn't passed emissions yet*. cel come one even before the turbo, so it NOT the turbo kit...


hoping to change that this weekend


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Yup...spoke too soon.....was right there.....


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

so glad i don't have to deal with smog. breath my 94+ vapors sucka!


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

glad to see you went with the 08 engine so you don't have to deal with the possibility of having another timing chain issue. you should have picked up a 3.6L VR6 for the swap, it would have been the first one done in the 2.5L platform to my knowledge. check out the thread below....my buddy just completed the first 3.6L VR6 swap in his MKV R32...first R36 in the world! i'm heading over to check out the car this weekend, can hardly wait...

InfiniteEcho's R36 Build Thread


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

you do know if you do a chain job for maintance they use the newer parts right? so the issue is solved.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Familiar look for some of you....

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums...apping the motor in the Jetta/Compartment.jpg


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Took a day or two off from this project, but tomorrow the engine will come out and hopefully back in. Tremendous amount of kudos to Pennsydubbin for showing the pics during his swap.



Thanks!


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Am I correct that it is probably the easiest way to pull engine and transmission together, then swap the transmission over to the new engine?


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

alwaysdutch said:


> Took a day or two off from this project, but tomorrow the engine will come out and hopefully back in. Tremendous amount of kudos to Pennsydubbin for showing the pics during his swap.
> 
> 
> Thanks!


Thanks:thumbup:




alwaysdutch said:


> Am I correct that it is probably the easiest way to pull engine and transmission together, then swap the transmission over to the new engine?


Yes I'd say so. That is how I did it and it seems like the easiest way.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Cool deal on the transmission part. I can see on the pics that you did not totally removed the drive axles. Did you just loosen the nut on the wheel side to get more room?

trying to save some time here....


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

So it seems that my drive axles don't have those nice bolts to remove them from the tranny, so i must probably pull them from the wheels....bummer. Other than that, I need to figure out how to undo the cable from the tranny, and I am good to go.......

Anyone has a better idea to pull the drive axles??


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

guys, if interested i found a GOOD engine 2.5L for $600
i havent gotten a response on the year


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

on the axle thing...

You have an automatic? I'm assuming it has a stub axle and c-clip?? What is your question?


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Yeah, just the 6-speed semi-auto. I noticed my drive axles are the ones that you need to pull out, by possibly loosen the wheel assembly. I think I saw drive axles that were bolted onto the transmission but that be the case on different transmissions or might be wrong on that??

Also try to take the cable off the transmission


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

*Update on swap*

Finally, the motor can out yesterday. After some small challenges to figure this car out, I was able to simply roll out the engine by myself with the help of $5 of wood from The Home Depot, rather than spending $200 for an engine hoist.

Some pics for those that like to see this:










And the $5 contraption that fitted exactly nicely under the motor. A little bit of movement with a jack will move this engine out without any issues.

Next step: moving everything over from old to new.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Nice engine hoist, looks like something i would to for sure lol.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

I test drove the car today and all seems to be fine, but I noticed that the transmission display letters are all lit up, and when I switch to semi, it doesn't switch it on the display.

The transmission seems to shift ok, but what makes it different on the display? I really don't want to drive it as long as I am not sure if it hurts the transmission.

I also have a CEL, which might relate to the issue.

Any help is appreciated as I really need this car running. I also ran a thread on the transmission forum, but if anyone has any ideas, I am all for it.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

*Changing 2.5L engine - Need advice - PROJECT COMPLETED!*

Project completed!!!!!

Engine has no CEL anymore and transmission shifts like a new car.

Thanks to all the folks on this forum that helped me succeed when I had questions and was a pain the ass.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

why did you had issues? what were they? how did you fx em?

thats key for the next guy!


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

I am actually working on a to-do list and what all I needed to get it done.

As for the last problem, I didn't have to do anything. The transmission display came up fine this evening as it looked as the transmission had to learn the new engine. There was one air intake issue, but was also resolved over time.

I drove the car for about 50 miles and it does great. More to come of what all I bought, and mistakes I won't make again


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

alwaysdutch said:


> I am actually working on a to-do list and what all I needed to get it done.
> 
> As for the last problem, I didn't have to do anything. The transmission display came up fine this evening as it looked as the transmission had to learn the new engine. There was one air intake issue, but was also resolved over time.
> 
> I drove the car for about 50 miles and it does great. More to come of what all I bought, and mistakes I won't make again


sounds good! 

will be here waiting


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

I guess I spoke just a little too early. The MAF sensor error CEL came on as the 2008 doesn't have one. Is there a way to change that with a bypass or flash? The car runs great, but I guess the ECU is looking for something that isn't there.

Dealership said at first they couldn't do anything without a sensor (obviously they didn't listen), and APR doesn't work on 2.5L engines.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

If the sensor is the issue, then add the sensor...
sent from tapatalk


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Well, those engines probably have one, but I find it strange that I have a bad one after 17K miles....


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