# Dealer oil change today-0W-40



## DAVIDMC100 (Feb 1, 2016)

Well I had my oil changed in my 2017 passat 1.8 at the dealer today. They put in Mobil 1 0W-40. Of course it is VW spec. I am surprised though. I thought the dealer would have used the castrol edge 5W-30. Wonder if VW has changed their corporate oil ??


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## 1172482 (Dec 22, 2015)

Looks like they both cost the same per liter so other than the thickness advantage of the 0w40 there’s no real advantage unless you drive it hard and go longer between changes. I go 3k because GTI so I go 5w30 anyway. Sounds like go with the manual or engine specs and you’ll be grand.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

If M1 0W-40 still meets the oil spec for your newer model VW (as it does for older 502.00 spec models) then it is absolutely fine. In fact, it's an extremely good oil for the price. There are better oils but none for the price point of the M1. In my opinion and experience based on countless lab analyses of M1 compared to many other oils available the M1 is an excellent oil, even more excellent due to the low price point. If it is approved for your model/year then you may considering using it over the typical Castrol. It performs at least as good, if not better.

There is only one downside to the M1 and that is that it does thin/shear a bit quicker than some other full synthetics (also based on experience and lab analyses) so it is not wise to push the oil changes too far. Shearing refers to, in layman's terms, when the additive packages of the oil that improve lubricity and friction reduction properties, etc. begin to break down. It's not like M1 shears really fast, it just shears faster than other full synthetics so definitely don't go 10k with it (actually anyone who wants their vehicle to last as long as possible/be as healthy as possible shouldn't push 10k OCIs) but especially not on the M1. I'd stick to a 5K OCI. It also burns a little quicker than some others (at least on models that are known to burn oil a bit) but if the newer models like yours (which I'm not as familiar with) don't burn oil much anymore like the previous 2.0T gens then you won't notice.


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## DAVIDMC100 (Feb 1, 2016)

*VW dealer oil*

Well I think my dealer expects folks to go to 10,000 miles with this Mobil 0W-40. Not wanting to start a huge oil thread and just talking about Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, Castrol Edge OE 5W-30 and Castrol Edge OE 5W-40, what about ability to go 10,000 miles without wear increasing and also oil consumption / burnoff issues?


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

DAVIDMC100 said:


> Well I think my dealer expects folks to go to 10,000 miles with this Mobil 0W-40. Not wanting to start a huge oil thread and just talking about Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, Castrol Edge OE 5W-30 and Castrol Edge OE 5W-40, what about ability to go 10,000 miles without wear increasing and also oil consumption / burnoff issues?


Yes, they expect you to go 10K on any oil because that is what VWs marketing platform is. VW knows that the average vehicle owner wants to service their vehicle as little as possible so it is naturally attractive for them to trumpet 10K oil change intervals. Now, they would say that you can do this safely because of how advanced synthetic oil technology has come... that is true, it has, and you can do 10K OCIs relatively safely with a modern quality full synthetic BUT that does not mean that doing a 10K OCIs is just as fine as doing a 5K OCI schedule. The 5K OCI schedule is indisputably better in the long term and, to make a long story short, any oil no matter how advanced will lose more of it's favorable properties by 10K than it will have at 5K and wear will increase by 10K more than 5K. It's just a fact. The wear at 10K is more acceptable than it once was but 5K is still more ideal. So basically I'd make your choice on what sort of OCI schedule to follow by how long you plan to have your vehicle.

That's the short version. I have discussed this and plenty of other subjects regarding oil at length on some other threads so if you want much more explanation than, rather than repeat myself, I'll just link you to one of them below. The thread is for an older model but the things I dive into in this thread apply just to the same to your choice of oil/oil change intervals. I have several posts that may be of interest to you in this thread but the most relevant one is several posts down... If you have any more questions afterward feel free to ask.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8771033-What-kind-of-oil-for-a-2007-Passat


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Replacing your oil too soon is like replacing your tires when they are at 50% worn. Why do it? In my experience, I've seen diesels and gas engine last well over 300k miles with 10k/yearly oil services. It plan works. 

You must have a good filter that will last that long too. Fram ain't going to cut it. You must use factory spec oil, just because it's synthetic does not mean it meets the factory specs. It seems that the European manufactures have a tougher spec when usually means it costs a bit more.

In my experience, changing oil at 5k is just wasting money [there are exceptions].


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## 1172482 (Dec 22, 2015)

I go 3k no more no less. 10k is way too much. When tuned and you’re driving unlike a Dad might with his family in the back you can’t be too cautious especially with known issues like the tensioner which I have an old version of at the moment. If it can’t hurt then why worry about it? If money is the issue I can understand going longer but you shouldn’t be modding and tuning at that point. IMO I do all the work on my car and don’t feel it’s a hassle or a waste to do something as simple as change the oil every 3k. Always have and always will. Also, the oil after 3k is pretty much just as dark and dirty as it would be if I went to 5 or 10k. Just the way I see it. Tires are visible and you have an indication of what they’re beginning to affect the ride. They don’t involve many important parts like internals of an engine do so I wouldn’t say those two are comparable.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Butcher said:


> Replacing your oil too soon is like replacing your tires when they are at 50% worn.


That analogy really is not accurate at all to be honest.



> In my experience, changing oil at 5k is just wasting money [there are exceptions].


I prefer to let the lab analyses of the differences between oil changed at 5k mile intervals and 10k mile intervals do the talking... I've tested various oils (all approved full synthetics) at varying change intervals over the years and the analyses consistently show that the additives responsible for the oils ideal performance are significantly more depleted by 10k and the wear metals, etc. coincide with this. That's really all there is to it. Can you do 10k OCIs? Sure. Is it going to kill your car quickly? No. Should you do 10k OCIs? Not really. Over years and a many miles an engine on a 10K OCI schedule will be a fair bit more worn than one on a 5K OCI schedule, plain and simple.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

Additive packages to synthetic is completely different than "depleted" with conventional!
That is WHY you have to do 3 to 5K OCIs with conventional oil. NOT with 100% synthetic.

When the additive package has, depleted, or WHATEVER, all that's left is OIL. When it's conventional
oil, you're left unprotected. With synthetic oil, you still have the synthetic oil, which will still perform. 

I have gone 16,000+ mile OCIs with my former Charger, no issues EVER. Sold it with 116,000 miles, 
and is STILL on the road. Went 12k-13K with the '13 TDI I had, 243,000 miles when bought back,
all original powertrain. 

It's been proven a synthetic can last over 100,000 miles, changing the filter every 7k, and topping off.

One of Saturn's selling points were, you could go 100,000 without servicing the car... ROAD TESTED...
Yeah, they are no longer for sale, but nothing do to with performance and reliability. Saturn went up
for sale by GM, and it did not go through. There are still cars that were made that used the same
platform, motors, transmissions, and so on, so parts were still available (Cobalt, HHR, G5). The VUE 
came back in 2012 as the Captiva... Just SAYING, before anyone yaps about it...

There is no need for 3-5k intervals anymore with today's well advanced synthetic oils. If you want to
throw your money away and do every 5k; go ahead, go for it, it is after all, your money to waste. No 
one can actually MAKE you do otherwise. It is YOUR car, your business, do what you want, I most
certainly do.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

I’m not gonna have an argument about this so this is probably the last thing I have to say on here. I don’t think you guys get it... I’m well aware that after the full synthetic oil shears/additives mostly depleted that the oil still protects a hell of a lot better than conventional. I’m also well aware that you CAN go with 10K or higher OCIs on full synthetic. My stance is that CAN and SHOULD are different things and while you guys base your position on anecdotes and experience-based opinions mine is based solely on observed, empirical fact which always trumps the former. I’m not one of those people who thinks an oil analysis is the first and last word on everything ever, I know they are overhyped in some ways, however in this case having tested multiple oils, each at varying OCIs, I have found the evidence supports my statements and I’ve even performd these tests on different vehicles and had repeatable results. So as far as I’m concerned the case is closed on this subject, but if you want to consider opinions formed of untested anecdotes/experiences and what you’ve heard over verifiable/repeatable testing, by all means go for it; as you said, it’s your car and you can do with it as you choose. 

Take care.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

My final word. I worked at a high end dealership and in 98, they went to the 2 year/10k oil services and they pushed the dealerships to follow. I also worked with many factory engineers in the 24 years I worked at the dealership. I laughed and cringed about all the future work we were going to have. But it never ever came in. The engines were like the Energizer Bunny.

There were ZERO issues with oil related failures except in the cases where the client did not change the oil, used Biodiesel, or used regular non synthetic oil. So with the hundreds of thousands of engines I was dealing with, I will go with my experience than what a chemist says. I have personally experienced many of these engines go over 300k miles. 

So why would you change the oil when it's half worn out. Just like tires, why would you do that. It's still good and to throw them away seems just a waste of money/resources. It's your money and if that makes you happy, then do it. I'll waste it on :beer:


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## OldBeater (Jan 13, 2017)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> Yes, they expect you to go 10K on any oil because that is what VWs marketing platform is. VW knows that the average vehicle owner wants to service their vehicle as little as possible so it is naturally attractive for them to trumpet 10K oil change intervals. Now, they would say that you can do this safely because of how advanced synthetic oil technology has come... that is true, it has, and you can do 10K OCIs relatively safely with a modern quality full synthetic BUT that does not mean that doing a 10K OCIs is just as fine as doing a 5K OCI schedule. The 5K OCI schedule is indisputably better in the long term and, to make a long story short, any oil no matter how advanced will lose more of it's favorable properties by 10K than it will have at 5K and wear will increase by 10K more than 5K. It's just a fact. The wear at 10K is more acceptable than it once was but 5K is still more ideal. So basically I'd make your choice on what sort of OCI schedule to follow by how long you plan to have your vehicle.
> 
> That's the short version. I have discussed this and plenty of other subjects regarding oil at length on some other threads so if you want much more explanation than, rather than repeat myself, I'll just link you to one of them below. The thread is for an older model but the things I dive into in this thread apply just to the same to your choice of oil/oil change intervals. I have several posts that may be of interest to you in this thread but the most relevant one is several posts down... If you have any more questions afterward feel free to ask.
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8771033-What-kind-of-oil-for-a-2007-Passat


I thought another reason they've moved to 10k intervals is for environmental reasons. Basically, less oil is getting used.

Anyway, I change my Liquimoly oil every 7-8k. I don't do much spirited driving, I'm sure it's fine.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

Butcher said:


> My final word. I worked at a high end dealership and in 98, they went to the 2 year/10k oil services and they pushed the dealerships to follow. I also worked with many factory engineers in the 24 years I worked at the dealership. I laughed and cringed about all the future work we were going to have. But it never ever came in. The engines were like the Energizer Bunny.
> 
> There were ZERO issues with oil related failures except in the cases where the client did not change the oil, used Biodiesel, or used regular non synthetic oil. So with the hundreds of thousands of engines I was dealing with, I will go with my experience than what a chemist says. I have personally experienced many of these engines go over 300k miles.
> 
> So why would you change the oil when it's half worn out. Just like tires, why would you do that. It's still good and to throw them away seems just a waste of money/resources. It's your money and if that makes you happy, then do it. I'll waste it on :beer:


I have been doing 5 Quarts of 0W40, with one quart of DELO400 5W40, last
two changes. I am at 105,000 now, and I know will need an engine WAY before
it is paid off. SO, I got bank for that... No matter what I get, it's gonna get
1800 miles a week put on it. SO, I can either buy a reliable car every two
years for $3000 or so, or replace a motor every two years or so, doesn't matter.

I have never had my oil ANALized by a chemist either... There is no need for it unless you 
suspect something is wrong, and, don't fix what's not broken...


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## stratclub (Feb 3, 2007)

There has been a lot of scientific research as to why people do 3K mile oil changes.

https://listverse.com/2013/02/16/10-crazy-facts-about-the-placebo-effect/


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## racerpoet (Apr 20, 2013)

stratclub said:


> There has been a lot of scientific research as to why people do 3K mile oil changes.
> 
> https://listverse.com/2013/02/16/10-crazy-facts-about-the-placebo-effect/


And marketing research.  I've worked as a tech for seven years and and getting my degree in business. Getting both sides of the story. I still try to change my oil every 5K.


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## a_riot (Jun 14, 2005)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> If M1 0W-40 still meets the oil spec for your newer model VW (as it does for older 502.00 spec models) then it is absolutely fine. In fact, it's an extremely good oil for the price.


I'd have to respectfully disagree with this, at least with my VR6 engines. I think may have M1 used to be a very good oil, but I think something changes along the way. I have nothing to base this on, other than how my engines sound when I use it. I was running it in a VR6 engine, and couldn't believe how much extra chain and lifter noise there was. I put up with it for a couple weeks, thinking it might get better but it didn't, so I switched to Castrol Edge 5w-40 and noticed the difference immediately. Noise means wear, so I feel comfortable staying away from M1 for my VR6 engines. I think you are correct about it thinning, and I think it stays too thin too long before getting to a 40 weight.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

a_riot said:


> I'd have to respectfully disagree with this, at least with my VR6 engines. I think may have M1 used to be a very good oil, but I think something changes along the way. I have nothing to base this on, other than how my engines sound when I use it. I was running it in a VR6 engine, and couldn't believe how much extra chain and lifter noise there was. I put up with it for a couple weeks, thinking it might get better but it didn't, so I switched to Castrol Edge 5w-40 and noticed the difference immediately. Noise means wear, so I feel comfortable staying away from M1 for my VR6 engines. I think you are correct about it thinning, and I think it stays too thin too long before getting to a 40 weight.


We’re actually more on the same page than you’d think, notice I said “...for the price.” My point was it’s excellent for being so cheap. And it is. There are certainly better oils but not at that price point as far as I am concerned. I too notice more motor noise when I used to use it. Noise does generally mean wear, I agree on that. I stopped using it for that reason as well, however, never once did I get an oil analysis result showing even remotely notable amounts of wear ao the jury is still out on whether in this case that increased noise really does mean what it usually means. I had numerous analyses for M1 and never a concern from that data. I still stopped using it to be safe, but some people just want to buy a cheap and quality oil and to them I still recommend that M1. 

Oh and to whoever was up-and-arms about me talking about oil analyses, I wasn’t going to bother with a response but since I’m on here already replying to a_riot I’ll just say this... It’s my money and I (and many other folks) don’t mind paying a mere $25 for an oil analysis a few times a year if it means I could catch a forming problem and at least be aware of it, if not slow or address it as best as possible, before it becomes a real one.


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## a_riot (Jun 14, 2005)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> I had numerous analyses for M1 and never a concern from that data.


Problem is an oil analysis likely won't show wear of the plastic chain guides which was my concern with the VR6 engine. So I used sound as my metric instead. When the engine was opened to replace the head gasket at 108k, we looked at the upper guide, and there wasn't a mark on it and essentially looked brand new so we didn't replace it. I have a feeling had I left the M1 in, that wouldn't be the case, but I'm not willing to try and find out.


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## schagaphonic (Aug 24, 2008)

Just on the basis of achieving ultimate fuel economy, has anyone seen any improvement or degradation of mpg's switching from 5w-30 to 0w-40?


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## racerpoet (Apr 20, 2013)

schagaphonic said:


> Just on the basis of achieving ultimate fuel economy, has anyone seen any improvement or degradation of mpg's switching from 3w-30 to 0w-40?


Did you mean 5w-30 or 0w-30?


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## schagaphonic (Aug 24, 2008)

racerpoet said:


> Did you mean 5w-30 or 0w-30?



Yes, I meant 5w-30. Edit complete.


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