# Help: Front suspension too low



## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Fellows,

Today when I went to start the car I noticed front suspension (Shocks) were low but when I started the car it went up by itself. Then I got the warning message while I was driving the car. I’m posting 2 pictures that were displayed in the console. After that every time I switch off the car, the front suspension (shocks) goes down by itself and goes up when I start up the car. I’m not sure about this behavior. Did anyone else have this issue?

Could this be the famous Air shocks failure or just simple fix.

I’m going to the dealer after the weekend but thought to check with the forum first.

Thanks 
Asad


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## seawind3000 (Sep 17, 2010)

Looks like you may have a large leak. The compressor can raise the car but it goes down when you shut the car down. A short time of this and the compressor might fail $1887. don't ask me how I know  There has been some talk that the 04 air strut can be "rebuilt" so you don't have to replace all four and the controller (VW might look after 3) . I would have it checked out soon . And 63000Km on an 04 is sweet!! mine has 183000Km.

Mike


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks for the reply Mike.

really does VW cover for the non faulty shocks? how would I go about calming the other 3 controllers from VW head office since the dealer over here is just newly appointed and they have not yet got their act together. 

yes, this car has been rarely driven but I was not expecting these problem in low mileage. I'm Glad to know you are near to 200,000 km mark 

Asad


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## seawind3000 (Sep 17, 2010)

Hi Asad, I know VW has covered 3 struts and the controller in the past, but I haven't heard of any recently. Check with VW customer service for your area.

Mike


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## mik15 (Dec 18, 2012)

keep us posted with the outcome as i am in the same region as you and i am curious if they will cover the other 3, hopefully i will not need it, but then again mine is also a 2004 and you never know...if they won't, i guess you can simply buy used ones, they're pretty cheap now on ebay.de, but of course would be ideal to have all 4 new covered by VW....good luck!


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Mike and Mik15,

I have just sent the car on the service breakdown truck. The dealer will start the work after the weekend is over.

looks like the classic suspension problem. once I know the fault and estimate then I will try to find who is the regional VW customer service. I think they are in Dubai for Gulf Countries.

Asad


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## mik15 (Dec 18, 2012)

yeap, i guess is the same as Audi, VW has the HQ in Dubai for the Middle East Region. Please let us know the outcome, personally i am really interested in what is going to happen and how will they treat this issue. You might also, when you're going to talk to them, send them the service bulletin regarding replacing the other shocks which has been in effect in US and probably in Europe as well. Either way, if the answer of VW Middle East will be a negative one make sure you send your complain to VW Germany and write them a well documented email regarding this problem! Good luck and hope to hear back from you good news!


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Mik15,

can you point me to the service bulletin link or pdf document?

thanks
Asad


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## mik15 (Dec 18, 2012)

if my memory serves me well, i am pretty sure i have seen on the forum, i'll look it up and post it...

you might want to read it: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...placement-Air-Springs-(Shock-Absorbers)/page1

also: http://www.airbagit.com/v/vspfiles/airstrutsdot_Layout-1.html?gclid=CLr54fCsvrQCFUeRPAodB3gA3Q

or: autopartfinder.ae , you have a low rate of success in finding on in UAE, but you never know, so give it a shot anyway...


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks for the links and parts website. 

the service department should start the work today. I'll keep the forum updated on the outcome.

Asad


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Just got a call from the service advisor. they are seeing lot of errors on the scanner but can't figure out the meaning. So they have contacted technical support someone by the name of Martin in Dubai and waiting for their reply. 

the service advisor wanted more time since phaeton is too technical for their technician. I told him to take the extra time since I don't have choice and this is the only dealer in the country.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> they are seeing lot of errors on the scanner


Hi,

Did you have that battery isolation relay replaced last year, after your delaer said it had failed? That repair action would leave a host of irrelevant DTCs in the scan history unless they remembered to clear them afterwards. Most technicians seem to forget to do it, in my experience.

Chris


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Chris,

Good of you to remember the battery isolation replacement. I had the previous dealer change the battery isolation device along with brake Disc, Brake Pad, brake fluid,Front bushes. I would have to agree with you that he might have forgotten to clear it. 

Now we have a change of dealership with the new workshop. He mentioned that they cleared few messages but could not clear others so they have forward the error messages to the regional head quarter in Dubai. I would probably get some answer tomorrow.

it would help to forward a technical service bulletin to my new dealer regarding the struts failure and repair in the 2004 phaetons if someone can point me to it.

Thanks
Asad


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Michael posted the references to most of the information available at the start of this thread:

2004 Phaeton Failure of one Suspension Strut (replacement of all required)

Chris


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## sjd9346 (Apr 21, 2004)

I just had to have my Phaeton towed in last night due to (diagnosed today) a failed front right shock. $2,000 to replace. My car has about 65,000 miles on it. I spent $1,000 on it about 30 days ago, so this will likely spell the end of my ownership of what is an otherwise great vehicle (my second). I just can't stomach $5,000 a year in repairs, which is what it appears to be costing me at this point. I came out of my extended warranty two months ago. I will be very sad to see it go, but the love affair is gone with these types of expenses being incurred for such a relatively low mile vehicle. :facepalm:

Steve


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Steve,

Sad to hear about it.

I'm not sure if you have the old struts and controller but Did VW say if they would cover the cost of the other 3 shocks to replace them with the new ones ?

Asad


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> $2,000 to replace.


Hi Steve,

There are now shock rebuild shops that might help you lower that cost. They were not around when some of the forum's first information was gathered.

However, as Asad says, perhaps you need some more information on VW's contribution before instructing the dealer to proceed. A car with four brand new struts and a new controller is a far more saleable asset than one with one repaired strut.

Chris


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## sjd9346 (Apr 21, 2004)

Mine is a 2006, so I only had to replace just the front right and not the others.


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Finally got the price Quotation from the dealer. The fix is going to be $16,209  

This is what he wrote exactly in the e-mail "The front suspension is completely faulty and the rear suspension is weak. Kindly let us know the outcome for the repairs as the parts need to be ordered from Germany." 

I asked him where is the fault exactly but he was generic again. They want to replace the front and rear shocks , Air motor, Control unit. 

I think since they need to replace the entire system so they are making the rear suspension weak. My Guess. They are new dealer and probably don't know that VW contributes to the replacement of the non-faulty shocks. but how do I start this process ?


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Call up VW regional center to your area. 

Your car is a 2004 model year and you do have to replace all 4 corners if you are buying new shocks. It is better that you do so if VW will pay for the other three shocks.


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## mik15 (Dec 18, 2012)

not sure how the Phaeton market is in Qatar, probably as bad as here, so considering that it means the value of the car is the same as the value of the repair, if not lower  , talk to VW ME and see what they're saying, otherwise it's a tough call!


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> This is what he wrote exactly in the e-mail "The front suspension is completely faulty and the rear suspension is weak.


 Hi Asad, 

With due allowance for any language issues, that fault report on a car that is loaded with built-in diagnostics is not very helpful. I do not believe that the rear suspension can usefully be described as 'weak'. 

You either have an air leak in a strut, or in a pipe, or a problem in the pressure distributor, or the air pump is defective, or the controller is somehow misbehaving, perhaps because it is receiving faulty information from one or more of its sensors. Proper diagnosis will eliminate all of those except one. 

If the problem is that one strut has an air leak, you can import a refurbished 2004-style strut from a third party supplier in Europe or USA and have it installed. For an example, see this current eBay listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Right-Rebuilt-VW-Phaeton-Front-Air-Strut-Warranty-/190637344904 

Alternatively, you can try calling Audi Volkswagen Middle East FZE on Dubai +9714 204 5888 and ask to speak to their Customer Assistance office. There's no guarantee that they will have heard of a customer support policy that contributes financially to replacing the full system, but you may get the ball rolling that way as they may then be able to ask VW HQ the correct question. 

Don't despair yet.  

Chris


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Chris, 

Proper diagnostic is the challenge that Qatar VW dealer is facing. They have to Depend on what Dubai dealer tell them and that too is not helpful in finding the proper solution. so its easier to say to just replace the entire suspension. Qatar VW has sent my concern to VW regional office and waiting to hear back. 

Thank you for the UAE call number. I'm Currently in Washington, DC and will head back to Qatar in 2 weeks. In the mean time I'll ask my wife to call Dubai to get the ball rolling on this. 

Asad


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Got the bad news today. VW Middle east will not consider good will for my case. 

I'm going to ask if Qatar VW can properly diagnose and point the faulty part or parts but do not blame the entire suspension. 

Mik15 had sent this link earlier. I'm going to buy the front 2 struts. It would be useful to know if any one have used them and their comments/review. 

http://www.airbagit.com/Air-Springs-Air-Bags-p/bag-ocs-volks-003a.htm 


Asad


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Make sure you match the part number or make sure it is compatible. 

Great price by the way.


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

I'm going to ask forum help Since I don't have any hope on Qatar Dealer to tell me exactly what's wrong with my suspension. 

Does any one know how the suspension works ? is there a single compressor for front and rear ? Is there a signal control for front and rear ? 

My rear suspension is fine and holding the air in them properly. so I'm thinking if it is a single compressor and single control then my problem is in the front struts only as the rear are holding the air in them. 

Thoughts ? please .


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

This should answer all your questions. 

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_275_d1.pdf 


I'd probably do just as you say... buy the two front struts and just have the front struts replaced. You must make sure it is same as the one on your car... the original struts are not made anymore so that is why entire system has to be changed out. 

But if you bought a rebuilt one and parts number matched exactly... then it is just swapping a shock absorber.


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks Tiger...I'll go through the PDF guide to understand it. 

I did check with air-bag-it support and he said it would work in my car and they are direct original equipment replacements.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Just for a quick belts and braces action, it is worth visually checking that some tyre shop has not recently pinched an air pressure line by placing the jack/hoist/lift in the wrong position under the front of the car. See post #23 in this thread: Lifting a Phaeton 

Chris


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hey Chris, 

After reading the post you sent, I started thinking that I had done the fuel filter and transmission oil replaced few days back before I ran into this issue. is the fuel filter near the Air lines pipe ? They had to lift the car up for both of these jobs.. 

I also read through the guide to phaeton suspension to found out that I had 1 air compressor. so it make sense that if compressor had failed then all 4 struts would fail along also. but since the rear suspension is fine so I can push the Qatar dealer to look for the exact problem rather then blaming on the entire suspension. 

The overall system comprises: 
– a control unit for the 4CL/CDC 
– an air spring and a vehicle level sender in each corner 
– an adjustable vibration damper integrated into the air spring strut in each corner 
– a compressor with air drier and temperature sender 
– a solenoid valve block with 4 valves, a drain valve, a pressure accumulator valve, as well as an integrated pressure sensor, 
– a pressure accumulator 
– air lines from the compressor to the individual air spring struts and to the pressure 
accumulator 
– a wheel acceleration sender on every air spring strut (measurement range ± 13 g) and 
– three body acceleration senders (measurement range ± 1.3 g). 

Asad


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Asad, 

If you want to direct your dealer in the way that saves you the most labour charges, then now is the time to invest in a VCDS (VAG-COM) diagnostics cable from Ross-Tech or a distributor, assuming you have access to a Windows laptop. No-one here has ever posted that it was a bad purchase. 

Here are a few examples of the types of message that can be reported by the suspension level controller: 

1 Fault Found: 
00143 - Right Front Dampening Adjustment Valve (N337) 
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit 

1 Fault Found: 
00003 - Control Module 
000 - - - Intermittent 

1 Fault Found: 
01583 - Leak in System Detected 
000 - - - Intermittent 

2 Faults Found: 
01577 - Turn-Off due to Over-Temp 
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent 
01583 - Leak in System Detected 
000 - - - Intermittent 

3 Faults Found: 
00774 - Level Control System Sensor; Left Rear (G76) 
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent 
00774 - Level Control System Sensor; Left Rear (G76) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent 
01780 - Sensor for Vehicle Leveling 
003 - Mechanical Failure - Intermittent 


It may be that all you get is a message telling you that there is a leak in the front suspension, but even that would help direct the dealer in a useful direction. This could help lower the overall dealer costs. 

Chris


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Asad, 

I am glad you are making progress in diagnostic of your car by understanding how it works and that you now know how some mechanics are just out of their depth on your car. Fixing a car today is not just remove and replace anymore. It requires proper diagnostic. 

Perhaps, you can direct your dealer to email you a copy of the VAG diagnostic scan and then you can post it here so everyone can assist. The wonderful thing about a forum like this is that it is a powerful tool where there are many brains assisting you with the proper diagnostic. 

That is a great find on replacement struts... that alone would save anyone $1000 per corner. 

Stan


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Thank you Chris and Stan. 

I have looked up the Ross-Tech site but unclear which product and cable do I need to buy ? I've the notebook with windows 7. My car is 2004 V8 and vin is WVWAG53D148010037 if it helps you guys. 

I have asked my dealer for the copy of diagnostics. Lets see if they are open to this idea. 

Asad


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Asad, 

This is the USB diagnostics cable that I have. It incorporates the paid-for licence that makes the software work, embedded in a chip: 

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/hex-usb+can.html 

The latest version of the software is free to download and runs on any recent version of 32-bit or 64-bit Windows. 

Chris


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hey Chris,

The Local dealer is not sharing the diagnostics report saying that its internal document only. So I bought the VCDS (VAG-COM) diagnostics cable from Ross-Tech.

Where do I plug the cable ? is it under the dash ?

Thanks
Asad


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Asad,
Yes it is under the dash on top of the left foot support.
It is a large lilac plug.

Gabriel


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## seawind3000 (Sep 17, 2010)

WOW.... If I am paying for a diagnostic... I want the report. If they won't give it to me then take the cost of the diagnostic off my bill!!!

Mike


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks Gabriel. I was able to scan the codes.

Fellows and Chris, I'm going to need your support in going through the VCDS report below. I was not sure which ones really impact the suspension so I copied most of the error codes. Hope we can find the cause. one thing I did notice that the front right shock is much lower then front left shock.

VCDS Version: Release 11.11.6
Data version: 20121223
Thursday,27,June,2013,14:14:34:33734

VIN: WVWAG53D148010037 Mileage: 63750km/39612miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 4D0-907-560-BGH.lbl
Part No SW: 4D0 907 560 CR HW: 8E0 907 560 
Component: 4.2L V8/5V G 0020 
Coding: 0026873
Shop #: WSC 97400 819 129369
VCID: 78FF0BFB08508DD818B

1 Fault Found:
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer 
P1570 - 008 - - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 1000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 909 135 L HW: 5WK 470 22
Component: Kessy 6400 
Coding: 0217324
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2E53EDA3BA948368827

Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 
Component: ELV XXXX

1 Fault Found:
00165 - Switch for Transmission Position P/N 
007 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 007 N
Component: ZAB COCKPIT 0188 
Coding: 0500135
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 24470F8BE4583938643

2 Faults Found:
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
00384 - Optical Databus 
004 - No Signal/Communication – Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 040 G
Component: Climatronic D1 1144 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 224B0993FE4C370816F

1 Fault Found:
01274 - Air Flow Flap Positioning Motor (V71) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3D0-937-049-V1.clb
Part No: 3D0 937 049 G
Component: STG.Bordnetz 5001 
Coding: 0000011
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2E53EDA3BA948368827

1 Fault Found:
00907 - Intervention load Management 
000 - - 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 553 B
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C1V0 1101 
Coding: 0015500
Shop #: WSC 60937 000 1048576
VCID: 264315839264CB287A7

1 Fault Found:
01437 - Control Position not Learned 
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation Labels: 3D0-919-887.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 887 D
Component: NAVIGATION 0147 
Coding: 0400000
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 3561C2CF5FC2B0B0C3D

2 Faults Found:
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
00625 - Vehicle Speed Signal 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

VCDS Version: Release 11.11.6
Data version: 20121223
Thursday,27,June,2013,14:14:34:33734

VIN: WVWAG53D148010037 Mileage: 63750km/39612miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 4D0-907-560-BGH.lbl
Part No SW: 4D0 907 560 CR HW: 8E0 907 560 
Component: 4.2L V8/5V G 0020 
Coding: 0026873
Shop #: WSC 97400 819 129369
VCID: 78FF0BFB08508DD818B

1 Fault Found:
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer *To be expected*
P1570 - 008 - - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 1000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 909 135 L HW: 5WK 470 22
Component: Kessy 6400 
Coding: 0217324
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2E53EDA3BA948368827

Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 
Component: ELV XXXX

1 Fault Found:
00165 - Switch for Transmission Position P/N 
007 - Short to Ground - Intermittent *Not unusual, not relevant here.*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 007 N
Component: ZAB COCKPIT 0188 
Coding: 0500135
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 24470F8BE4583938643

2 Faults Found:
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent *Probably normal operation.*
00384 - Optical Databus 
004 - No Signal/Communication – Intermittent *Probably related to a battery disconnect during service, unless you have Nav problems.*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 040 G
Component: Climatronic D1 1144 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 224B0993FE4C370816F

1 Fault Found:
01274 - Air Flow Flap Positioning Motor (V71) 
014 - Defective - Intermittent *Might be true, or might relate to battery disconnect.*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3D0-937-049-V1.clb
Part No: 3D0 937 049 G
Component: STG.Bordnetz 5001 
Coding: 0000011
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2E53EDA3BA948368827

1 Fault Found:
00907 - Intervention load Management *Normal operational event when the battery is low, for example after parking up for some time. Also occurs after battery disconnect or if left battery is weak.*
000 - - 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 553 B
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C1V0 1101 
Coding: 0015500
Shop #: WSC 60937 000 1048576
VCID: 264315839264CB287A7

1 Fault Found:
01437 - Control Position not Learned 
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation *Vehicle Height information in memory is incorrect.*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation Labels: 3D0-919-887.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 887 D
Component: NAVIGATION 0147 
Coding: 0400000
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 3561C2CF5FC2B0B0C3D

2 Faults Found:
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent *See battery remarks.*
00625 - Vehicle Speed Signal 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent *See battery remarks, unless you have Nav problems.*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What is curious is that there are no faults recorded relating to the suspension air compressor, or strut air leaks front/back or any corner. Perhaps these reports have been deleted during the work and might return later.

All the car is saying at present is that it is confused about the suspension height and that the controller needs re-adaptation. These fault listings only relate to poor information from one or more height sensors, or a controller problem, unless a leak report occurs later.

Are you currently driving the car? Can you post another scan after a few more miles? Does the front right corner lift when you start the car? Does the car allow you to adjust to the higher ride height position using the central display? (These last two may be blocked pending the controller adaptation).


Chris


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

I would also charge up your batteries since it has been sitting at deater and your garage for long time.


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Thank you both for the quick replies.

As a matter of fact, I did go on vacation in April for a little over 1 month. I came back and the car suspension was down. The car started fine and suspension went up again. I noticed after that the suspension would rise up when I start the car and would go little down but not all the way down. so did not have any red flags. The issue really appeared in the first week of June when the front just would not hold up at all. Could the battery be weak to the point that it is affecting the suspension? I would expect a weak battery sign in the instrument panel or dash panel.

Chris, what do you mean by Nav problem? Over here we use the term Nav for Navigation DVD.

Are you currently driving the car? 
Not really. I can drive few meters to do another scan.
Does the front right corner lift when you start the car? 
Yes, for a minute and then it goes down.
Does the car allow you to adjust to the higher ride height position using the central display?
No, please see the picture at the beginning of my post. My first post.


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

It is good to know that you do go on extended vacation and did not hook up a battery tender/charger to the car while you are away... a lot of people would neglect to mention this. 

How old is your battery? This is also another thing people don't mention about too.

Do you have a modern electronic battery charger or battery tender? They are two different thing but can be one unit like CTEK battery charger.

Do you have a modern electronic car battery tester?

Low battery voltage will cause many faults on our Phaeton... so it is best to make sure the battery is good before you do a major repair. I came to this conclusion because of so many posts related to battery and one guy bought a Phaeton with suspension fault from a dealer who knew about it and gave him a great discount because of the 'impending' massive suspension repair bill... and when he got it... he bought new batteries and the suspension fault disappeared!

So... it is a must to hook up the car to a battery tender if you are not going to drive it for extended period of time if parked inside a garage... if you are parked under the sun, you do have a solar charger option. I am currently testing one on my BMW with old battery and so far it is keeping the battery fully charged. For solar panels, it is necessary to use a solar charge controller... because most solar panels put out 22 to 24V... which is too high for our 12V battery regardless how small the charge rate is. We have expensive batteries (any car batteries are now very expensive).


Another necessary maintenance is to clean out all drain holes so we don't have water collecting inside the car and under the hood potentially damaging our computers and shorting out electrical system.


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

The battery was bought back in Dec 2011. I believe the dealer warranty is 2 years for the parts. I have to check on this. 

I don't have a battery charger or tester. There is ACDelco shop near to my home. I can take out the battery and drive it in another car to have it properly tested and charged if they have the charger.

I would still expect the a low battery sign to appear


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Asad,

Thanks for the extra information. I'm sorry I asked questions for which you had already posted the answers, but since a little time has passed by I was unsure whether the problem had developed further. This is especially so since the dealer wanted to replace everything including the kitchen sink and had already worked on diagnosing the suspension (aka had done some poking about).

Stan's suggestion that the battery may need attention is possible. In reported cases of a bad battery causing gremlins the battery often passes garage tests, since there is such a fine line between glitch voltages and working voltages. This may make it impractical to try and claim against your battery warranty.

If you are interested in doing some more diagnosis yourself, the next step in coaxing a correct diagnostic report from the car's system (whether for Stan's battery gremlins or a faulty height sensor or suspension controller) would be to follow this procedure:

1. Delete the saved faults.
1. Re-adapt the suspension controller from the VCDS screen (see below). This may have to be done a couple of times.
2. Copy down any suspension controller faults recorded during the process.
2. Clear the fault logs again.
3. Drive the car.
4. Observe what happens to the ride height and the sequence in which it occurs, much the same as you reported in your first post.
5. Do a new scan. Post the full scan here.

The procedure for re-adapting your own suspension controller 3D0 907 553*B* using the VCDS cable is given very clearly in the first post of Michael's thread How to Adapt (Adjust-Calibrate) Phaeton Suspension & Ride Height.

On the basis of the previous scan, I feel you are tracking down a faulty height sensor, faulty controller or some other electrical or electronic issue.

However, once the controller is re-adapted it will have a reference against which to monitor, which it may not be able to do at present. If a fault report subsequently pops up invoking a pressure leak, then that would divert diagnosis in the direction of the air distribution block, pipes and struts.

Regarding a possible "low battery" warning light, the gremlins appear to be caused by a brief (less than 0.1sec) dip below 11.5V at startup, so there is no applicable in-dash icon.

Chris


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Phaeton_qatar said:


> The battery was bought back in Dec 2011. I believe the dealer warranty is 2 years for the parts. I have to check on this.
> 
> I don't have a battery charger or tester. There is ACDelco shop near to my home. I can take out the battery and drive it in another car to have it properly tested and charged if they have the charger.
> 
> I would still expect the a low battery sign to appear



Go have your ACDelco charge up and test your batteries. If the batteries are good, you will not have the low voltage sign unless you got some other issues that needs to be fixed.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Stan:

Whilst there is no harm in charging the batteries ready for diagnostics, or even as a routine procedure, if the left battery works the car reliably then it's OK. If it is older than 5 years and glitches appear then it's time to start to thinking about replacing it as preventative maintenance. At that stage it should still pass a Garage Battery Test, because their test is of its capacity to deliver a substantial current for a few tens of seconds, in the manner of a starter motor demand, which should still be good.

However, a degraded battery (even a relatively new one) may not provide that critical 11.5V at up to 40 amps to the Phaeton's array of computers and relays at the other end of 5 metres of voltage-dropping cable for the tenth of a second when required.

In Asad's case, even if his battery is degraded, fitting a perfect battery instead of the 18-month old one (which may or may not be suspect) will still leave the suspension problem to be fixed. It is more productive to concentrate on that first, then worry about the battery afterwards. This is because the next glitch could be the Trunk Lid, or TPMS, or Interior Lights not working, not necessarily the suspension controller again.

Regarding dash indications of low battery voltage, a low reading on the in-dash voltmeter once the engine is running will normally indicate failure of the generator system, not necessarily failure of the battery. Like all other cars, there is no 'low voltage' warning lamp as such, only a Low Charging Current warning lamp symbol in the shape of a battery.

Chris


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Thank you both for supporting my issue. I feel like we are closing on the case.

Chris, You don't have to be sorry. I'm sure you have hundreds of other thread to manage. I just wanted you look at the cool picture I took 

this is the update regarding the battery. I did realize that the invoice dated Dec 2011 was to replace only 1 battery probably the right side. and it's ACDelco brand. I'm not sure about the replacement of the left side battery since I bought the car 1 year back and don't have the complete history. Just this invoice about 1 RH side battery replacement. The LH side is Genuine VW/Audi with AGM feature. 

I'll take out both the batteries tomorrow and after the weekend(Friday) holiday get it checked out just incase. by the way after getting the car from the dealer back in the delivery truck, I noticed that the front right shock is no longer getting up even for 1 minute like it did in the past. the left shock is low but not lower then right side. its impossible to drive few hundred meters but I'll give it a try for the steps you mentioned regarding clearing the message.

Chris, your knowledge is remarkable. thanks for the details on battery sign.


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Hi Chris,

Thank you for the detailed information about the battery usage and consumption. I see your point... starter only need a few seconds of maybe 400 amp and electronics may need 40 seconds of up to 40 amps.

So in essence, LH battery is more like a deep cycle battery... like a boat battery... so tell me... is it a deep cycle AGM battery?

I am wondering... while LH battery may not be suitable for the electronics... can we not just bring it over to RH side (assuming it is good enough for starter) and buy a new LH battery or possibly fit a deep cycle battery in its place?

Asad brings up another good point... when we think of battery... we think of one battery so it is important to make sure the communication is clear on which battery is being discussed and their ages. So in Asad's case... we do need to verify the LH battery condition. It might be well over 5 years old. Perhaps there is a way to identify the age of the battery by the VW stampings? Any idea Chris?

I know on mine... the dealer did put a sticker on the battery to indicate the age.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> electronics may need 40 seconds of up to 40 amps


I think the critical period for the left battery at startup is very much less than 40 seconds, more like a few tenths of a second, because (a) the current surge into the systems and the capacitors quickly dies down and (b) the generator takes up the strain once the engine is turning. I imagine (ie I am guessing) that the voltage dip which causes gremlins with an aging left battery is something to do with a cell plate coating that very quickly disperses. So electronics glitches can occur caused by the transient internal resistance, but the battery is good when tested because the internal resistance has gone back to normal after one second or less.

I note that Mike/n968412L just posted that he still has 100% performance from his 10 year old AGM starter (right) battery. But I bet if he moved it to the left position then electronic gremlins would appear once the charge rate stabilised in its new environment. You are likely correct in that a 5-year old left battery could do service for a while in the right position. But for the lowest cost of ownership it makes sense to change both, in my view. An OEM AGM battery costs about the same as a tank and a half of fuel, at least in Europe.

Regarding deep discharge, AGM batteries deeply dislike this. It can reduce their life.

Older Varta batteries have the date (year/week) stamped on the negative post, newer ones have a label which is not always present, or is sometimes out of sight.

Chris


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Sorry Chris and Stan, I mixed the left and right side. Must be the late working hours confusing my mind. But I did take some more cool pictures  of the battery.

What is this small line going from the battery ? highlighted in Red arrow. I believe this battery has never been replaced. it looks like factory built. 




this is the RH side battery. This is the one that got replaced back in Dec 2011. I did not know that we could put replace the AGM batteries with ACDelco. It sounds wrong to do this. 



Finally the battery charging meter looks good in the dash reading 14.


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

So I am guessing you had the battery recharged? The voltage reading is normal now.... was it low before?

That black wire... is on the ground side of the battery so I wouldn't worry about it... it doesn't draw electricity...

Asad, I'd like you to examine the front struts wire connections... to make sure the dealer did not leave them disconnected for any reason... pop the hood, release the 4 knobs to the air intake/water drain cover by the windshield... slide up the front of the cover and you should see the top of the strut on each side of the car... and a wire harness from each one...

I'd probably would disconnect and reconnect the harness just to break any corrosion that may occurs... so just removing and reconnecting is enough to clean the contacts.

Another thing I would do is exercise the suspension buttons on the center console... to make sure it is working... does anything shows up in the center console display when you do this? Make sure you can see your radio or climate info on the display before you do the suspension buttons... Did you ever spill any liquid by the suspension buttons?

Other than this... I think Chris is the better guy to help you on this... maybe help you do the suspension recalibration procedure to 'reset' the suspension.


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## mik15 (Dec 18, 2012)

the small line behind the battery is the drainage line, just pull it out gently and will pop out, it helps the water/acid to drain out of the car in case the level is too high or in curves for example...my battery is also AC Delco, i think this is an American brand and seems to be very used in the Middle East, it's quite hard to find Varta or Bosch here....the problem with the AC Delco is that their batteries have different size than the ones used in Europe and don't really fit well the European cars, being mainly designed for the American cars, they're either too large or to small...

have you tried the adaption procedure yet?


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

No Stan. Didn't recharge the batteries since Friday is holiday here. Just wanted to add info about battery amps reading and ask if this reading is for the RH side battery or both? 

Will do your and Chris recommendation tomorrow . 

Thanks Mike. I was not sure what to do with it. now I'm comfortable disconnecting it while removing the batteries. Are both of your car batteries ACDelco (left and right )?


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

If you disconnect any battery, be sure to follow the factory procedure, because there is a pyrotechnic crash device attached to the right battery. Jason wrote up the method in this TOC thread: Battery replacement procedure

That does not mean the charge will certainly fire if you don't follow the factory procedure, just that there is a statistical risk which depends on how the controller reacts to its unexpected conditions.

Chris


PS - the AC Delco list only shows up to 800CCA AGM batteries available, and the sizes do not match. These are smaller than the VARTA G14 OEM battery. However, perhaps the list varies between regions.


*AC Delco AGM Batteries*











*Varta / Johnson Controls G14 AGM Battery Specification (OEM)*


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Any update?


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Fellows,
There is good news and bad news. I have been offline for few days to concentrate on my MBA exams and good news is that it’s successful. I can now focus back on phaeton. Here are the updates that I managed to do:
1.	Bought a new left-side battery but didn’t resolve the issue. A new banner battery that had the same specification and size. The only minor difference was 92Ah compared to 95Ah.



2.	Performed the suspension calibration and adaption successfully. But the front right strut did not come up. Here are the results from the scan after the adaption. Since the RH battery was replaced with a new one so we are going to see some new errors. 
Chris, Please review the message if you find something pointing to the problem.

VCDS Version: Release 11.11.6
Data version: 20121223

Saturday,13,July,2013,22:56:23:33734

Chassis Type: 3D - VW Phaeton


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Asad,
With regards to the damaged bumper, I would have thought that the tow truck shoud have an insurance to cover that type of damage. Also, could not your insurance company sue the tow truck?

Gabriel


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Gabriel,

The Dealer talked to the tow truck team basically their Owen internal team and they are not willing to accept the fault. 

As for sue, the middle east countries does not have concept of sue  . No one goes that route since the dealership of VW is given to only one powerful family of the country.

Asad


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi again Asad,
I know what you mean... 
Perhaps you have to wreck a coupe of their oil rigs o behead some of their racing camels 
I am just joking . But in any case I would have thought that the guy who unloaded the car should have been aware of the problem your car had, and therefore use the means to avoid damaging it. The point is that the damage was caused by them, not by you.

Gabriel


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Congrats an your MBA.

have you checked the wiring harness to your struts in front? If possible, can you see if you can find the part number of the front struts you have on the car.

No warranty concept is weird... sor of like wild west... you are on your own for everything.


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Stan,

forgot to mention !! Yes, the wiring harness is properly connected to the strut. 

I could not read the part number properly due to limited sight but it is either 3D0616040 OR 3D0615040.

Asad


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Asad,

The only part of the latest scan that is relevant is as before, the compressor was shut down because it ran for too long a time:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553.lbl
01577 - Turn-Off due to Over-Temp 
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you try to read the suffix letter on your strut part number? This will be something like 3D0 616 040N or 3D0 616 040AB. Also, what is the Build Spec for your car, is it BGH or BGJ? It's printed on the sticker in the trunk, copied in the user handbook.

The probable cause is a pipe leak (less likely), a faulty valve block (the unit that distributes the air to the corners) or that strut.

It's a pain to have cracked that bumper, especially after poor results from the garage. It certainly adds insult to injury. I presume a local shop can weld the cracks for the short term, after the leak is fixed.


Chris


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hello Chris,

Thank you for reviewing the scan result. it is frustrating to see that the scan is not pointing to the actual problem. I guess it would show up if it is a sensor or electrical problem however if the strut is leaking then the scan won't report such advance diagnosis. In this case I have already ordered online a refurbished strut from airbagit.com thanks to mik15 for pointing the link. I should know by tomorrow if replacing the front right strut fixes the problem.

Here is the part number with suffix 3D0 616 040 Q. and the Engine is BGH.

Just for the info, what's the difference between BGH and BGJ ?

Asad


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Good News friends. The suspension is working again 

Thank you to all (chris,Stan,Mik15,Gaberial,Tiger0002,seawind3000) for helping diagnose the issue and directing me to troubleshoot and learn. This would not have been possible without your support. I'm grateful to this forum members. I felt so much comfortable discussing the issue. 

Replacing the front right strut with the refurbished strut worked and the repair cost was very less compared to changing the full suspension price. I'm going to do VAG scan to see if there are any further message and will update the forum later in a day or 2.

Now focusing on the front bumper repairs. Is VW offering clearance for the front bumper  ?


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I don't know the exact differences between BGH and BGJ, it was probably an emissions update. There was a brief discussion on it in this thread: 4.2 Liter V8 engine BGH or BGJ

Wikipedia says production switched from BGH to BGJ at end-July 2003.

Chris


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Congrats! That is awesome!


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Asad:

Who installed the rebuilt unit? Was it done at a VW dealership? I've always wondered if a VW dealership would install someone else's product. However, I guess the shock is a VW part - just a remanufactured one.

Sure glad your issue was resolved in a satisfactory way.

Jim X


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

I wished VW dealer would have done it and saved the front bumper from cracking. They only accept part from VW directly. For evidence an invoice from VW is required. I had some other workshop install it 

Asad


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Congratulations Asad!!! :thumbup:
One more clear example of how important perseverence is.

Gabriel


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Thank you all. its all team effort.

Gabriel: I see that you live in Madrid. My Next Global MBA class will be held in Madrid & Barcelona during September. I would sure love to see your phaeton 

Asad


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Hi Asad,First of all congratulations ! I was away and today I saw your post. I want to add more info. About our dealers that you don't expect anything good from them. We have one of the worst dealer I came across in Kuwait. They have no experience with the Phaeton and if they stuck they will replace all the components of a system and of course we have to pay and wait for months. Not to mention that they usually damage another part of the car when they service or fix a thing. I actually stopped servicing any car I own in the last 6 years just to keep the car from the stupid mechanics. It is much better to service the car yourself if can. Regarding the air struts, I talked to them about the issue of replacing the other 3 struts if one damaged, they confirmed that they did not and will not do it. The good thing is that the Phaeton is a wonderfull car if you understand it and this forum is the best! The only other good forum is s2ki.com. In my case, I would trade my Phaeton for another car and get new one from Germany if I face an expensive repair. I hope I won't face such issues but the car is almost 10 years old, so I have to prepare! Sorry if my post is not clear, i'm writing from my phone. Ahmad


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Ahmed,

Thanks for your comment. your post is very clear. I agree with the dealer in the GCC. This is what happens when there is no competition and free market. customer don't have options and the dealer can blackmail easily. I would assume that phaeton customers would be treated better in GCC but I'm really disappointed.

Your ID name reminded me about Salmiya where I grew up and had wonderful time until Iraq attack on Kuwait and we had to run for our life. 

Asad


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Phaeton_qatar said:


> Your ID name reminded me about Salmiya where I grew up and had wonderful time until Iraq attack on Kuwait and we had to run for our life.
> 
> Asad




Well that's a surprise! You grew up in Kuwait. What a small world.

Kuwait was destroyed after the attack, people killed and the worst pollution disaster happened in the history just before Iraqi army escaped, oil equivalent to production of 15 years burned and spilled in desert and sea. I was in Kuwait all the time, Thanks god nothing happed to our family. We won't forget these days.

Good luck and take care.


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi fellows,

It’s been 1 month since I had replaced my faulty right shock with a refurbished strut. All was going excellent except last week when I saw my car front right suspension down again. Starting the car makes it pressurized again for the whole day except when parked for overnight and in the morning the suspension is again down. So I suspect a small leak somewhere. Probably the new refurbished strut is the cause. I performed a VCDS scan but the scan came out without fault code. 
Yesterday while driving I got 2 fault code in the dash panel. The warning message indicated light failure so I verified all the lights were working properly both front and rear. I performed a VCDS scan and got bunch of errors. Please see below picture for the 2 fault code and VCDS error.

the message is "check head-light range control" 





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 909 135 L HW: 5WK 470 22
Component: Kessy 6400 
Coding: 0217324
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2E53EDA3BA948368827

Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 
Component: ELV XXXX

1 Fault Found:
00165 - Switch for Transmission Position P/N 
007 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 007 N
Component: ZAB COCKPIT 0188 
Coding: 0500135
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 24470F8BE4583938643

1 Fault Found:
01312 - Powertrain Data Bus 
013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 3D0 920 881 Q
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB8 0421 
Coding: 0008021
Shop #: WSC 82600 826 177733
VCID: 3467FFCB54B8A9B8F43

1 Fault Found:
01310 - Level Control System Control Module (J197) 
004 - No Signal/Communication – Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901 
Component: Gateway KCAN 0101 
Coding: 0000006
Shop #: WSC 82600 826 177733
VCID: F0EFB3DBE020559850B

Address 29: Left Light Labels: 3D0-909-157.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 157 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l) X012 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: E6C3D583D2E48B283A7

1 Fault Found:
00492 - Body Pitch Angle from Level Control Module 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent


1 Fault Found:
01310 - Level Control System Control Module (J197) 
004 - No Signal/Communication – Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation Labels: 3D0-919-887.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 887 D
Component: NAVIGATION 0147 
Coding: 0400000
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 3561C2CF5FC2B0B0C3D

1 Fault Found:
00625 - Vehicle Speed Signal 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 39: Right Light Labels: 3D0-909-158.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 158 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r) X012 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: E7DDD887D5EE9220011

1 Fault Found:
00492 - Body Pitch Angle from Level Control Module 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 933 F
Component: 0U HSG 0100 
Coding: 0000034
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 3365FCD751B6AE80ED9

Part No: 3D1 959 701 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 0104

Part No: 3D1 959 702 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 0104

Part No: 3D0 959 703 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 0104

Part No: 3D0 959 704 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 0104

3 Faults Found:
00984 - Left Tail Light (M4) 
009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
00985 - Right Tail Light (M2) 
009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
00988 - Lamp for Brake Light; Right (M10) 
009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Today, I cleared all the faults and did the VCDS scan again and BIG surprise NO fault code at all. The dash screen is also clean from error during driving. However the front right strut still goes down after overnight parking.
I clueless as to what the above error mean then ?

Asad


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Asad, what are the part numbers on your front struts?


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

invisiblewave said:


> Asad, what are the part numbers on your front struts?


The original Front Right side was 3D0616040-Q
The refurbished Front Right that I bought from airbagit.com is = 3D0616040. I have attached the pictures below. it does not mention that its VW made or from any country. Might be China made.
The Front left side 3D0616039-Q


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That's the same as mine. My VW dealer has just successfully fitted a single new VW strut mine and it's working fine on the old controller (also the same as yours, from your scan). These are the part numbers currently running on my car:

Front left part number on the car: 3D0 616 039Q (2003/04 - 2003/06)
Front right part number on the car: 3D0 616 040 AD (2009 -)
Controller: 3D0 907 553B (2003), software revision 1101 

I don't know how much you paid for the refurbished strut, but it appears it's possible to put a VW strut on it if you wish.


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

That refurbished strut has warranty so I'd do that first.


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

the cost was $800 including shipping. how much is a new one ?


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Phaeton_qatar said:


> the cost was $800 including shipping. how much is a new one ?


USD 2,800 here in Kuwait.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

On my invoice it's $1732, so it'd be worth getting one shipped if you decided to try it. My guess is you can probably buy it cheaper than that in the US, that was the dealer's price.


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

I buy VW parts from here...

http://keffervwparts.com/

I'd call in to double check with them... they list it at $1299.38. ($1732 retail price)

Just put the 3D0 616 040 AD into the search box.


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## cyrax122 (Sep 19, 2007)

I recently called up my VW regional center They told me they would not pay for anything and good luck


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Before you buy a VW shock, you might want to double-check with your dealer. Mine did a scan of the level control system control module. The scan states that mine is a new generation of the control module -J197. The name, part number and software version listed are identical to yours, but the coding on mine is 17700. The coding appears to be the only difference, looking at your scan posted earlier. This scan was the basis on which the dealer determined that the AD suffix strut would work on my 2004 vehicle.


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

cyrax122 said:


> I recently called up my VW regional center They told me they would not pay for anything and good luck


Where are you located?

Let's face it... our cars are at least 7 years old in USA... and the fact that VW has covered the struts is amazing goodwill and unheard of for any cars sold in USA.

Now that we are getting more information about this strut issue... we are finding out that the cost of the repair has fallen by Invisiblewave's recent suspension repair. It bodes good news for the rest of the Phaetons that has not had a strut repair yet.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Asad's strut was manufactured by Guangzhou YitaoQianchao Vibration Control Technology Co., Ltd (see here).

It does not have a suffix letter in the part number, so it probably has mid-range characteristics that approximate all the other OEM variations.

Chris


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Chris, is the UK helpline likely to have any better information about all this? I can't phone them from here because it's an 0800 number, unless you have another landline number for them?


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

just came back from the Garage who were really good at finding the leak. usually we over-look at the top of the strut inside the covered rubber. The picture explains it better.



let's see if I can get the warranty from airbagit since this is international shipping. 

Ahmed is correct on the cost. I checked the cost from the dealer coming around $2800.

Chris, you are amazing. how did you manage to trace that strut back to China. Airbagit told me that they are OEM but only refurbished. but looks like they are just made in china.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

There _are_ also refurbished ones from China, for example see here.

Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> I can't phone them from here because it's an 0800 number


Try the switchboard in Milton Keynes, they are on 01908 679121.

Chris


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## christopher long (Oct 19, 2013)

*air suspension from china for phaeton*

Hello Chris. 

Thank you for pointing to us the manufacturer of aftermarket struts in China. 

I called the factory and they seem to be quite helpful.

I have just bought a Phaeton 2006 v6 3.2L and as the same story goes, the front air suspension failed. Cost at least $2,500 to have it replaced with the original part.

But from China the parts are less than half the price. 

The questions bugging in my mind are:

1. Electronically are they compatible to the original? i.e. will the china air suspension response to the diagnostics instruction input?

2. Are these struts from China manufactured new or are they all refurbished (remanufactured)? (they claim they are new) 

3. Do Phaetons share the same suspension across its range of 3.2, 4.2 & 6 L trim?

Any idea from the community will be appreciated.

Thanks

Christopher


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## christopher long (Oct 19, 2013)

hello Asad

I was reading your story about the air suspension and sorry to lean about the ordeal you had went through to get it fixed.

It has been 2 mths since you detected the leak in the refurbished strut.

Any updates on your situation?

Christopher


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Christopher,

I think that the question of which struts work with which controllers and with which remaining OEM struts is an evolving subject. The currently-known list of strut types and controller hardware and software versions can be found here:

Resource: List of Air Spring Damper (Gas-Struts) and Suspension Controller part numbers

Recent experience from invisiblewave has suggested that perhaps there is more leeway in fitting replacements than VW has led dealers to believe, as against the advice and financial support commonly given several years ago. Alternatively, a recent change in the design of spare parts has made replacement choices more flexible.

Your question is a very helpful one, and any replies based on experience will help us all immensely.

Chris


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

christopher long said:


> hello Asad
> 
> I was reading your story about the air suspension and sorry to lean about the ordeal you had went through to get it fixed.
> 
> ...


Hi Christopher,

The short answer is that I would NOT buy these strut from China. and now the explanation. I got these from Airbagit.com claiming that it is refurbished but when I opened them up they were brand new. so I agree with China Dealer. Airbagit did finally gave me the warranty on the faulty strut but it took them around 2 month to send it. The Air leak was very low as you can see from the picture but here is the warning to every one . My wife was driving the car with the kids and the strut exploded badly like all the air went out and the front suspension completely went down. Thank GOD she was driving on low speed. Phaeton is sitting in the parking for now and even though I have the new made in China strut delivered but I'm not going to use it any more.

Here are the answers to your question:


> 1. Electronically are they compatible to the original? i.e. will the china air suspension response to the diagnostics instruction input?


Yes, I could raise/lower the car height and did the adaptation. 



> 2. Are these struts from China manufactured new or are they all refurbished (remanufactured)? (they claim they are new)


I believe new. 



> 3. Do Phaetons share the same suspension across its range of 3.2, 4.2 & 6 L trim?


Chris answered this one.

Asad


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I agree wholeheartedly with Asad. Skimping on dodgy struts isn't worth the risk (although there's obviously a risk with the VW parts too!). I was also very fortunate that when mine failed I was driving relatively slowly and in a straight line. It's not hard to imagine a very difficult situation had I been cornering at 70mph when it failed, the whole front end of the car drops instantly.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Hi,

My car is currently in a bad situation. Today the front end was fully dropped after just two hours of parking. The low level warning also stayed for quite long time. I'm not going to drive it any more. 

After failing to make a good trade-in deal, I'm going to buy new 3D061640AD strut instead of remanufactured 3D061640Q and I will take the chance and try my luck!

Any recommendations before I place the order ? 

Thanks!!


----------



## christopher long (Oct 19, 2013)

Thanks folks for the invaluable advice.

Asad- based on what you advised I have decided not to buy the China struts, when it has to do with safety issues. 

I am looking at the stockists website and I found 2 of them have the parts. 

www.kefferveparts.com

www.1stvwparts.com

But Keffer says that will not ship outside of U.S. I am in Singapore. Does anyone has ideas how to get the struts?

Thanks

Chris


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

I would suggest to create an account with Aramex http://www.shopandship.com/default.aspx

Once they assign a U.S address to you then you can start purchasing. I'm planning to doing the same but have not tried it yet.

Asad


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

> I would suggest to create an account with Aramex http://www.shopandship.com/default.aspx
> 
> Once they assign a U.S address to you then you can start purchasing. I'm planning to doing the same but have not tried it yet.


Thanks Asad,

Actually I stopped using Aramex long time ago, because they increased their prices a lot and many times. So It doesn’t make sense to buy stuff from outside Kuwait. But I use Aramex now for items that I cannot find in Kuwait.

There are other companies like MyUS, Posta Plus, DHL and U shop We ship but I’m not sure if these are available in a Qatar.


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Kuwaity said:


> Hi,
> 
> My car is currently in a bad situation. Today the front end was fully dropped after just two hours of parking. The low level warning also stayed for quite long time. I'm not going to drive it any more.
> 
> ...


Hi Ahmed,

Did you buy and try the new 3D061640AD strut yet ? I'm interested in your experiment to see if it works then i'll proceed as well.

Thanks
Asad


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Hi Asad 

Actually I'm still busy with other things, but planning to do the "experiment" ASAP.
I will not do it only if I get a good trade in deal for a MB or an Audi. 

Personally, I think it should work but might not work perfectly.
These air struts can be divided into two systems, the active air spring and the active damper.

The air springs are controlled via a remote valve and it has a passive surge valve, so it should 'work' but the spring rate might be different at the same pressure.

The damper is connected electrically to the car, this part might not function as an active damper, even if it works, the values might be deferent. 

These can only be verified practically.

I will keep updating.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I think it'll either work correctly or not at all. The spring and damper rates are presumably identical on the AD struts to the Q, otherwise I very much doubt that VW would have mixed them on my car. Since it's a software issue, my guess would be that if the AD strut is incompatible with your controller, you'll get an error of some kind with a fault level workshop message on the dash.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

invisiblewave said:


> I think it'll either work correctly or not at all. The spring and damper rates are presumably identical on the AD struts to the Q, otherwise I very much doubt that VW would have mixed them on my car. Since it's a software issue, my guess would be that if the AD strut is incompatible with your controller, you'll get an error of some kind with a fault level workshop message on the dash.


There is no electrical connection to the air spring, only air line. If there is enough pressure in the hose, the air spring will lift the car then the height sensor will send the feedback to the controller. That's why I see a lot of Bentley owners buy phaeton struts because its cheaper although I think it is not exactly the same. 
The damper has a connection to the car and might not work if it is not compatible. But the car can be driven.

Your VW workshop don't know why it worked and why vw used to replace all struts, so I believe that they also have no idea about spring rates and damping values of the new and old struts. 

Sent from my Google Nexus 4


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Suspension is not a mystery/magical science. It's all engineering work. They know exactly what they specified.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Kuwaity said:


> Your VW workshop don't know why it worked and why vw used to replace all struts, so I believe that they also have no idea about spring rates and damping values of the new and old struts.
> 
> Sent from my Google Nexus 4


I can't argue with that! They were utterly clueless about the whole thing. I'm very curious to see the outcome of your experiment, but I don't think it'll tell us a great deal unless we can determine whether your controller has the updated software running or not.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Tiger0002 said:


> Suspension is not a mystery/magical science. It's all engineering work. They know exactly what they specified.


True. But we (and VW dealers) have lack of information about the old and new struts. That's all.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

invisiblewave said:


> I can't argue with that! They were utterly clueless about the whole thing. I'm very curious to see the outcome of your experiment, but I don't think it'll tell us a great deal unless we can determine whether your controller has the updated software running or not.


Since we have compared your controller data to mine, the only difference is the coding (NAR vs. ROW) which is not a problem. 
I have no idea about how to check the software version on the controller other than looking at the VAG COM scan.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yeah, this is the conundrum. As far as I can tell (and I have all the service records), my car has never had any previous suspension work, and going by the retail date and the VIN my car was manufactured in 2003, well before the strut change. The only explanation the dealer had for the AD strut working was that it "must have had a suspension update". The only thing I can think is that perhaps the factory updated some of the early cars before they left the factory. What're the last 4 digits of your VIN? Mine is 7164.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

My last digits are 010894. 

Sent from my Google Nexus 4


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I _think_ that means you have a much later vehicle than mine.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

I read somewhere that my car manufactured in April 2004. 
The VIN mention only the model year.

Sent from my Google Nexus 4


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

I'm going to just use simple logic and not go deep. The remanufactured China strut did not have any suffix on it. They did not look OEM in fact brand new replica of OEM but still worked on my Phaeton. I was able to lower/raise the car so the controller was communicating with it. If these strut can work in our old cars then I'm pretty certain that the new generation strut with suffix "AD" should also work. invisiblewave car is pretty good example. He has the same controller, coding and version that my car has. I'm going to take the jump and order it from VW and see what happens. The shipping will take around 3 weeks for delivery so I'm looking to report back in 1 months’ time.  

invisiblewave : just to reconfirm. Here are my car details
VIN: WVWAG53D148010037 
Address 34: 3D0 907 553 B
Coding: 0015500
Current Struts suffix: Q
Software version: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C1V0 1101


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Asad, did you checked that the dampers of the Chines struts work with the Phaeton controller when you select comfort / sport? 

Sent from my Google Nexus 4


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

No Ahmed, did not try the sport/comfort setting.

Asad


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

I'm happy to report back that the new strut with suffix "AD" works with the old controller and old rear struts. The sports and comfort setting works perfect. I feel the car handles and drives better compared to the previous "Q" struts.

hope my project will benefit others.
Asad


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Congrats!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Woo hoo! I guess the only question left is why the hell VW came up with the b/s about them not working in the first place??


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

My guess is this... the strut is simply a shock absorber with air suspension (insteaf of spring).

The air suspension is the same and adjustment by the sir system is same...

The only thing different may be the dampening of the shock part... this theory may be wrong since we haven't heard of shock failure... only air bag failure.

Idealy like any spring replacement... you replace a pair or all four... that is where VW came up with that.



as for the valve may be slightly different... is probably imperceptible.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Congrats!! 

I'm still mailing two companies for international shipping, but their response is poor since they are on holiday.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Phaeton_qatar said:


> I'm happy to report back that the new strut with suffix "AD" works with the old controller and old rear struts. The sports and comfort setting works perfect. I feel the car handles and drives better compared to the previous "Q" struts.


Hi Asad:

Thanks very much for the information about the 'AD' suffix strut working with the old controller. That is very valuable information.

Michael


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

update 

I have Installed new 3D0-616-040/39-AD struts on my Phaeton (fitted originally with 3D0-616-040/39-Q struts) and it works! 

The details: 

I know its a late update but I've faced few difficulties during ordering and shipping. Also, I needed some time to test and evaluate the new struts. 

During the installation we found that the upper bushes are worn out and the roll bars bushes are slightly broken. So I decided to replace them in one go along with full alignment. 

Impressions:
The car handles differently due to all changes that I made. 
My concern was if the dampers Are working actively and if the comfort/sport settings are making an effect on the handling. Well, the dampers Are working but the damping felt little different, either because the AD has different dampering or because they are simply new. 

I haven't done the car level adaptation, the car level looks perfect but I will do it when i have free time. 

Now the question is why VW change all struts and the controller? Well, I think that because the new dampers are slightly different so they need to make sure that the car handles exactly like the newer Phaetons. I can't see any other reason. 


I would like to thank everyone here for the information and help! 

Regards,


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Ahmad, did you change both front struts? VW only changed one of mine, which makes me think the damping rates must be identical otherwise they probably wouldn't mix them. Mine had already had the upper control arms changed, and after fitting the single new AD strut I can't tell any difference to the way it used to feel. Changing the bushings, however, did make mine feel different, it's smoother and quieter since. I suspect the changes you're feeling are related to the bushings rather than the struts.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Yes I replaced both, though only the right was leaky. I didn't like the idea if mixing old and new (and different?). Also the left might leak sooner. 

I've already mentioned that the change in handling was because changing few things.

Usually when I prepare a car for a race, I do change only one thing at a time. So that I can feel the difference and I know exactly what is causing the change. 
Some racers change a lot of things together then they complain and don't know what to fix! Same as what I did with the phaeton...

Here I'm trying to feel the low speed damping, which is handled by the damper. Not the bushings. 

Its very minor difference, in a better way. I don't want to go in to deep details but as I mentioned before, the whole thing might also be because the dampers are new and new dampers needs break in.

So is it really different? Or might just be new damper feel? Only VW can tell...


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Normally the difference between the damper settings is felt immediately and is quite noticeable. It would be interesting to see if a scan reports any issues with the adaptation after the work.

Or perhaps the roads in your area are all glassy smooth!

Chris


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Would a faulty level sensor (3D0941285E) be a culprit in triggering the car too low warning?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Salah:

Yes, for sure, if a level sensor is broken, installed incorrectly, or otherwise misbehaving, it could easily lead to presentation of a Suspension Fault or 'Too Low' message.

The good news is that level sensors are both easy to inspect and inexpensive (relatively speaking) to replace. There is a discussion with more information about the level sensors and some pictures of them here: Correct orientation of suspension level sensor when replacing component. If you replace a level sensor, you should re-adapt (re-calibrate) the ride height of the car. This is a task you can do yourself - it is not difficult, but you do need to follow the instructions carefully (the car is a bit snarky about insisting that all the steps involved be carried out in exactly the right order, etc.). Here's the post that explains how to re-adapt ride height: How to Adapt (Adjust, Calibrate) Phaeton Suspension & Ride Height 

If you have access to a diagnostic scan tool (VAG-COM, VCDS, etc.), you can check each of your level sensors to see if they are correctly reporting wheel height. Just open up the suspension controller, and go to the "Measured Value Blocks" section. In there, you can see (in real time) what wheel height is being reported for each of the four wheels. If one of the values looks way out of range, that could indicate a defective wheel height sensor.

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:*

See also this closely related discussion, which contains a lot of excellent information: Different part specification for replacement Air Springs (Shock Absorbers). In particular, see the recent posts on page 8 and 9 of that discussion.

Michael


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Thanks Michael 💐


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Well, I have replaced my two front dampers a week a ago and noticed that the dampers go down considerably after some time or overnight and go up on ignition (specially the right side one which was the cause of the "car too low" sad episode). I did the adaptation procedure twice and I still feel something dampery (fishy) is going on.

!


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Forgot to mention that I cant access the vehicle with the KESSY, nor I can start the vehicle with the push button. I can do both with the actual Key. After parking and locking, the red side alarm lights in the doors flick for a minute or less then go out.


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## jesusturk (Dec 2, 2013)

I have a 2004 W12 and my air shock went out on me last month when I hit a pot hole. All four of my shocks had to be replaced but VW covered 3 shocks and the new module. That was a great help.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> I cant access the vehicle with the KESSY


Hi Salah,

This sounds as if the keyless antennas are not functioning. They are powered through some FET transistors inside the KESSY. However, this should normally be reported in a scan.

Chris


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Paximus said:


> this should normally be reported in a scan.
> 
> Chris


Hello Chris,

Indeed it was. Here is the KESSY part of the scan:

Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl

Part No SW: 3D0 909 137 D HW: 5WK 485 08

Component: Kessy 6840 

Revision: 68406418 Serial number: VWZ3Z0C3122182

Coding: 0147617

Shop #: WSC 00000 904 00000

VCID: 285FF4589830A65EF37-515E



Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 

Component: ELV XXXX



6 Faults Found:

00182 - Luggage Compartment Access/Start Authorization Antenna (R137) 

011 - Open Circuit

00183 - Interior Access/Start Authorization Antenna 1 (R138) 

011 - Open Circuit

00087 - Terminal 30 for Starting Relevant Consumers 

009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent

00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 

009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent

01341 - Control Module in Instrument Panel On Comfort CAN (J285) 

004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

00184 - Control Circuit for Engine Start/Stop Switch 

007 - Short to Ground - Intermittent


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Are those KESSYs repairable?


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Salah:

The two threads to read about failures of the KESSY and its keyless entry Antennas are these:

Kessy and Keyless Access discussion (was My loaner is a Phaeton)
Repairing the Access and Start Controller (controller 07) resolving antenna open circuit faults - TOC done

The first one looks at where the antennas are placed. The second one describes some electronics repairs which can be made to the KESSY circuit board.

The third possibility is that water has accumulated in the left footwell and the wires in the KESSY connector plugs are corroded, or the printed circuit board itself is damaged.

Chris


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Much appreciated Chris, I'm sure the info there would be of value.

Regards

Salah


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Michael,

Could you look at my post #129 above. I would appreciate your take.

Regards,

Salah


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Salah:

The air suspension system on the Phaeton is a closed system. By this I mean that the car never takes air from outside - in theory, if the suspension system has never been taken apart, the air inside the pump and the 4 shock absorbers is the same air that went into it at the factory in Dresden when it was built.

So, if you have a car that is 'falling down' when it is not running, this suggests that one of two possible problems exist:

*1) *A check valve somewhere in the system is not operating properly, and air is leaking out of one part of the system (in your case, the front shocks) and into another part of the system, or;

*2) *You have a leak to the outside (to the atmosphere) somewhere in your system.

It is also possible (but not probable) that there is an internal leak somewhere in the front shock absorber(s), but that is unlikely if they were new parts.

Michael


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Many thanks Michael for the analysis. I'm planing on taking her to the local VW shop to check the batteries since they're both under warrantie, and at that time ask them to check for any leaks in the suspension system and the AC while I'm at it.

Regards,

Salah


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

What was the reason for replacing the two struts?


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

The right one (passenger side) failed and the usual red warning was constantly on. No matter what tge vehicle could not raise it self. I changed both with new OEM dampers figuring the left would soon fail.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I don't think there's any known reason to replace both in the case where one fails. Virtually every failure reported has been the passenger side, I don't recall anybody having a failure of the driver's side strut. Mine's been running fine for a year now with one new strut.


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

You might be right, I figuered that it would be a killer if the other one failed in a month or two or even a year, so I decided to do them both at the same time.


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Salaam Saleh,

You did the correct thing by replacing both. The temperature is around 50C (120F) through the year in our region so these struts tend to fail more often. Glad you got it fixed.

Asad


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

It's around 40C for much of the year here, my first strut didn't fail until it was 10 years old and the other three have been fine since. What's temperature got to do with it??


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## Michaelmiracle (Nov 21, 2014)

*Front Suspension Low*

I came out this morning to a "Vehicle Too Low" warning. The front suspension is way down. I have been having problems with the "level fault workshop" over the last months. 

I had it into the dealer last week because of "Level Fault Workshop" warning that would come intermittently. They wanted to replace the Suspension Valve Block for $1350. I declined.

I ran a scan when I got it home:


Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553-V2.clb
Control Module Part Number: 3D0 907 553 C
Component and/or Version: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C3V0 1122
Software Coding: 0007712
Work Shop Code: WSC 12345 444 00808
VCID: 27570077956FF20610-513D
3 Faults Found:

01583 - Leak in System Detected 
000 - - - Intermittent
01400 - Suspension Level Control 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded
01577 - Turn-Off due to Over-Temp 
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent


After getting the Too Low warning today I ran a scan and it looks like this:

Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553-V2.clb
Control Module Part Number: 3D0 907 553 C
Component and/or Version: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C3V0 1122
Software Coding: 0007712
Work Shop Code: WSC 12345 444 00808
VCID: 27570077956FF20610-513D
2 Faults Found:

01583 - Leak in System Detected 
000 - - 
01400 - Suspension Level Control 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded


I hit a speedbump last night pretty hard which could have caused a rupture of some kind. I just replaced both batteries this past week.

My question is could the low suspension be caused by a pump malfunction? I don't hear any attempt to raise the car when i start it.The level fault warning comes on and trying to raise the car does not respond to the dial. 

I have read there is a way to activate the pump with the VCDS but I haven't been able to locate that info. It may be burned out or the Suspension Valve Block, whatever that is, may have failed.

I have an appointment at an independent shop to look at it in a few days but wanted to do some diagnosing if possible. It may just be a leaking strut that needs to be replaced but I would like to go into this as informed as possible.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Pound to a penny it's the nearside front strut. It looks like a slow leak from the over temp message, so it's possible it's a leak elsewhere in the system, but I'd look at the strut first using soapy water around the air line fitting and the top of the strut.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> Pound to a penny it's the nearside front strut. It looks like a slow leak from the over temp message, so it's possible it's a leak elsewhere in the system, but I'd look at the strut first using soapy water around the air line fitting and the top of the strut.


Which is the nearside?


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## cbh123 (Aug 25, 2013)

There is nothing in your scan that can pinpoint where a leak is.
However, it is pretty (glaringly) obvious there is a leak somewhere. 
Could be anywhere from the pump to the corner that is sagging. 
Soapy water is a whole lot cheaper than throwing parts at the car. 
The difference is finding the leak takes logic, and good troubleshooting. That is hard to buy... Ya gotta do it yourself 

I would read the suspension SSG cover to cover a few times... And find a spray bottle to fill with bubble solution.


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

As you mentioned, there are Output tests in VCDS to raise and lower individual struts. You should be able to hear the pump running when you do this (it's underneath the spare wheel well).


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

2 primary places where the strut will leak :

1) top of the piston rod ( under the rubber cover at the top of the strut where the electrical plug goes : but this is rare unless something has worked loose ) : For this inspection you need to remove the plastic scuttle panel : 5 mins work

2) The actual airbag assembly has a small tear ( this you should be able to hear, but it may be hard to leak search ), as the outer plastic bellows will mask the leak site. 

On my phaeton, it could hear it right at the top of the air bar ( under the wheel arch ), by slowly grabbing the outer bellows with the wheel on lock, you could change the note of the air leak...

Result : New airbag required :sly:


I would strongly suggest if this is the case & you are handy with spanners ( about 4/10 difficulty, where 3/10 is changing a wheel ), you can overhaul your strut yourself for about £160

Regards,

Taz


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## Michaelmiracle (Nov 21, 2014)

I'm going to try to use the output test to see what I can hear as far as a leak. I hope it's self explanatory in the VCDS. 
I would attempt to replace the strut myself but I don't have garage space so I would be doing it in the street. And it's winter here.

I do want to check the solenoid valve block since that is what the dealer wanted to replace. Hopefully they weren't just fishing for ideas, and they actually identified the leak. As I said I had it in to them last year and they didn't find a leak in the strut. 

Also I want to check the part number on the front right strut. Since my module number is a C suffix, I'm thinking possibly the struts were changed already in the car's life. I don't have any records for it.


I'll let you know what I find. Thanks for all the input.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Is the suspension valve block this item below ?










You can check this easily by removing the plastic cover under the car at the back, this exposes the air compressor & valve manifold / block.

There are some of these on e-bay at the mo' ( about $100 USD ).

chances are it's just an "O" ring that has gone hopefully which is a cheap repair pal

kind regards.


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## Michaelmiracle (Nov 21, 2014)

*Solenoid Valve Block*

Taz,
Yes, That's the part. I'm going to see if I can hear or see a leak from it. Also from the front strut.

Right now I can't hear anything with the car running and the VCDS running an output test. I will need to take off the panel under the spare tire. The front end is too low to see into the wheel well so I'll have to jack it up.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Check the pinch points near the rear lift areas, too. I don't recall anybody else having a leak in that valve block.


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## Michaelmiracle (Nov 21, 2014)

So I located the immediate problem. The pump was not running so I checked the fuses. It turns out when I replaced the battery I was monkeying around with the fuses in the boot compartment. I replaced the fuse for the pump in the wrong slot. #7 instead of #6. So the pump didn't run and since I do have a leak it didn't get replenished. This means that the pump is refilling the system when the car isn't running. Since it is a closed system and I have a leak it must be working against what it's designed to do. Maybe the cause of my LHS battery running down.

I ran the output test. It came up as "test not good" or something like that. I'm not sure I ran the test properly. It seems I had to click 'next' to get it to advance to the next step, although I might have been interfering with the test, I can't tell.

The scan did not show that the pump fuse was not working. When I replaced the fuse the scan showed a fault to ground that wasn't showing while the fuse was out. I guess that means "some time in the past"???

I ordered a used valve block and I'll try replacing that. It's easy enough to get to and for $60 it seems worth a try since that's what the dealer would have done (for $1300).

I sprayed all the usual points with soapy water including the the valve block but I haven't seen any sign of the leak. The front left strut ends in suffix D. Can I assume that it is not stock equipment for a 2004? It looks like many new parts on the front suspension so I'm wanting to believe that work has been done on this before.

I'm not sure where the pinch points are. Would that be anywhere the lines turn or where they get attached to a fitting?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

If you stick your head underneath near the jacking points at the rear, you'll see the air lines.


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## Michaelmiracle (Nov 21, 2014)

invisiblewave said:


> If you stick your head underneath near the jacking points at the rear, you'll see the air lines.


Great! Thanks.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Michael,

The diagnostics expression 'short to ground' means that a wire that was expected to have voltage on it doesn't. This would be true if a fuse was pulled out and some controller that still had power measured the pin.

Chris


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## Michaelmiracle (Nov 21, 2014)

*Further troubleshooting air leak in system*

I did the troubleshooting test that is outline in Bentley:



"Perform the following test under these conditions:

The vehicle must be cold and must not be moved during the testing

Room temperature must be between 10 - 30 degree C and remain constant

The vehicle must be sitting on a level surface

Start the engine.

Move vehicle with Front Information Display Control Head Control Module J523 to high and then to normal level.

Switch engine off.

Remove connector from Level Control System Control Module J197 to prevent level control from readjusting.

Now, measure the vehicle height at all four wheels.

After 24 hours, measure again vehicle height and compare measurement - a - with first measurement.

If the vehicle is sitting crooked, a leakage is present at the suspension with the greatest difference between the first and second measurement.

Check the affected air spring shock absorber and the corresponding air line using commercially available leak-detection spray in this order:

Air line connections

Residual Pressure Retaining Valve

Check front air spring shock absorber when installed, check rear when removed.


If an air spring damper is faulty, it may be possible that oil from the damper is leaking into the air supply system. For problem-free operation of the air spring system, it is recommended that the system be cleaned and additional components be replaced after a repair.

Unscrew affected line from air spring damper and solenoid valve.

Blow line clean with compressed air several times. To do this, direct compressed air to end of solenoid valve line.

Inspect to see if damper oil has leaked into the solenoid valve.

If damper oil is found in solenoid valve, it must be replaced.

Check internal line from air supply unit to solenoid valve block.

If oil is found in internal line, air supply unit must be replaced."



The front passenger wheel is indeed the trouble spot. It was 1 cm lower. The others remained the same. It is a slow leak because even after I replaced the fuse and started the car there were no faults on the display. When I mistakenly removed the fuse before, it took 2 days to reach "level too low warning" so I figure it is matter of how long it's been sitting before I get a level fault warning. I hadn't noticed a pattern in the randomness of the warning showing up, but now I see it always comes just after start up and probably the first start of the day. If I shut the car off it would not reappear so i'm guessing the pump works fine only when the engine is running and I will get the warning only when it's been sitting long enough to lose enough pressure that it exceeds the lower limit. Although I have also been getting the code for pump shut down because of high temperatures, which I can't explain with a slow leak.

Another point is that this happened one year ago, I had it into the dealer and got it back with no charge for parts and it was fine for a year. The Level Fault Workshop just started to reoccur so on my next oil change at the dealer I asked them to look at it and they want to replace the valve block.

Here are my questions going forward:
What is it about that position of the strut that fails consistently? 
My strut model number ends in suffix "D" so I assume it is not original, and all the struts were replaced at some point. This is an assumption, i admit, based on the 'D' suffix.

I did try to spray soapy water on all the usual points of leaking, even the valve block, and couldn't identify a leak, possibly because it is too slow a leak. Any suggestion on a "commercially available leak-detection spray". Most of what I see is for A/C systems and require injection into the system.

I bought a used valve block and can swap it out just to try it out but thought I'd see about actually finding the leak first before i do that. After seeing the front end on the ground and un-driveable, I don't want to potentially disable the car with my unnecessary handiwork.

Your problem-solving thoughts are appreciated.
Michael


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Remember the problem with the airbag is that it's actually hidden under the exterior dust shield.

Hence when you spray the soapy water / gotec / snoop liquid or whatever you've got to hand, you may not see the leak, as it's inside the dust shield...

You "may" hear the leak, and on my OSF strut, I could hear it, but NOT find it, the only clue was as I gripped the outer dust shield & squashed it a bit, i could hear the tone of air leakage change at the top of the strut...

Upon stripping it, there was a small tear in the bladder :sly:

The pump doesn't need much use to overheat, i'd say a 5 mins continuous use is probably enough, as it's only meant to top up the system... NOT make it up.

Regards,

Taz


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I think you're wise not to bother with the valve block. I don't believe anybody has come up with definitive information about why the nearside is prone to failure, but I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption that it gets more than its fair share of bumps and undulations in the road surface on that side. Your controller details and AD suffix indicate that you don't have the original 04 setup, and the other interesting thing is that it's a AD strut that's failed, which supposedly has a stronger airbag than the older model. The good news is that gives you the option of buying a single, new strut, although that wouldn't be my choice, I'd have that one refurbished (or do it myself, more likely, following Taz's handy instructions).

The other thing to mention is that you should get it done asap, there is more than one reported incident of pump failure due to overheating.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm in the middle of a front suspension rebuilt on my '04 W12 and when I took the front LH air strut out I noticed that the rubber dust boot has a small tear. Well, not a fun surprise but luckily I have an '04 V8 parts car sitting in the driveway. Checked the strut on the parts car and it looks fine and it's been holding air fine over the last 6 months so should be good. Coincidentally both cars have about the same mileage (W12 @63k and parts car at 65k miles). 

Now here's the tricky part. The '04 W12 has Controller 34 (Level Control) 3D0 907 553 *B* and the LH front strut is part# 3D0-616-039Q. However, the parts car has Controller 34 (Level Control) 3D0 907 553 *C* and the strut shows part #3D0-616-039AD. I have no maintenance history on the parts car but aren't those AD struts later struts? Maybe it had the strut already replaced and the controller also? 

If I understand the whole thread correctly the AD struts should work in place of Q struts regardless of controller B or C? Can someone confirm this please? Or would I want to swap controllers also?

Here's what my '04 W12 has: 
Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553-V1.clb
Part No: 3D0 907 553 B
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C1V0 1101 
Coding: 0017700
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 264DF39E920B8271B3-5120

'04 V8 parts car:
Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553-V2.clb
Part No: 3D0 907 553 C
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C3V0 1122 
Coding: 0007712
Shop #: WSC 02184 444 72603
VCID: 2753FE9A95019B7AC1-5120

Thanks much,


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I wouldn't worry about it. I ran a Q on one side with AD on the other for a couple of years with the original controller.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> I wouldn't worry about it. I ran a Q on one side with AD on the other for a couple of years with the original controller.


Were you running them both on a W12?

Was the AD the direct replacement for the Q? 

I ask because the 2006 parts list shows the AC for the W12 and the AD for the V8. The 2004 list shows the Q as fitting both. 

-Eric


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

No, a V8, but the question was really "should I follow the VW recommendations?". If you want to follow the VW recommendations, you should replace the controller and all 4 struts, using W12 part numbers. RebuildMasterTech don't differentiate between the two models, which is further evidence that there's little, if any, functional difference between all the various part numbers. On my car, a Q and an AD strut coexisted on the same axle for a couple of years without any difficulty.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I was asking if the AD was a direct replacement for the Q because the Q was used on both for 2004.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

And it depends on whether or not you follow the VW recommendations. If you're following VW, there is no direct replacement for the Q strut, you have to replace the controller.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback. I'll go ahead it give it a shot with the AD strut, probably tomorrow but won't get the car back on the ground until next week when my wheel bearings are scheduled to be delivered so I can finish up the job. I'll report back on how it went.

I also have a question in to Troy at 1stvwparts to see what currently would be the correct replacement strut part # for my W12, maybe something changed in ETKA by now.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Phaetonlvr said:


> I also have a question in to Troy at 1stvwparts to see what currently would be the correct replacement strut part # for my W12, maybe something changed in ETKA by now.


So I got some more info today based on the VIN for my '04 W12: suffix Q struts are the originals as we already know, official replacement struts are suffix AC while the V8s are AD. AC struts should use the C controller according to VW. Question now is what is the difference between AC and AD struts when the original Q struts where both for the V8 and the W12? Member invisiblewave has proven that the AD struts work with the B controller on the V8, I guess I'll try this on the W12 now 

Btw, Q struts superseded to “S” then “AA” and to the final “AC” version, at least for my W12 VIN.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Phaetonlvr said:


> So I got some more info today based on the VIN for my '04 W12: suffix Q struts are the originals as we already know, official replacement struts are suffix AC while the V8s are AD. AC struts should use the C controller according to VW. Question now is what is the difference between AC and AD struts when the original Q struts where both for the V8 and the W12? Member invisiblewave has proven that the AD struts work with the B controller on the V8, I guess I'll try this on the W12 now
> 
> Btw, Q struts superseded to “S” then “AA” and to the final “AC” version, at least for my W12 VIN.


I was wondering the same thing. When VW changed the struts, did they make the AC more stiff than the Q, or the same? I don't know if the 450 HP dry sump W12 is heavier or lighter than our 420 HP W12s.

Is the AD the same stiffness as the Q? I would guess that's likely since others including invisiblewave have used the Q and AD at the same time. 

-Eric


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Stiffness? It's an air spring, the stiffness is software-controlled.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Finally got everything back together and now run a suffix AD strut on the LH front of my '04 W12 with version B controller, RH side has the original suffix Q strut. I've only covered 50 miles so far but all seems good, can't tell any difference.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

:thumbup:


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

I didn't have much time lately to play with the parts car ('04 V8) and the suspension kept getting lower and lower over the last month so finally I got around to starting it up today to get it back up to ride height. I charged the LH battery for a while and left it on the supply setting to start it up which worked just fine. Then I got the Front Suspension too low message which wasn't surprising by looking at how low the rear sat. I figured it would recover itself after a few minutes as it has done in the past but it refused this time. 

Got the VCDS out and scanned Controller 34 which showed 2 fault codes

Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553-V2.CLB
Control Module Part Number: 3D0 907 553 C
Component and/or Version: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C3V0 1122
Software Coding: 0007712
Work Shop Code: WSC 02184 444 72603
VCID: 2753FE9A95019B7EF0-5120
2 Faults Found:

01575 - Control Switched Off 
000 - - 
00774 - Level Control System Sensor; Rear Left (G76) 
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit

I was able to clear the first one (control switched off) but not the second one but after a few second the first one would reappear. I also looked at the MVBs and Reservoir Pressure was at 3.25 bar, air compressor at 13 C, System Status reads "6020" (don't know what that means). Also checked ride height values and the corresponded to what I was seeing. I also tried the output test but it won't turn the air compressor on. I'm not convinced that the air compressor is the problem at this point because right after I reset the first fault code I believe I can hear the air compressor run for about 2 seconds. Also noticed that later the reservoir pressure was at 4.2 bar so maybe that is from the short time the compressor ran?!

Would the G76 ride height sensor failure cause the suspension controller to not allow the compressor to run?


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Phaetonlvr said:


> Would the G76 right height sensor failure cause the suspension controller to not allow the compressor to run?


Yes, I've had situations when working on the suspension where I have kept a Sensor at an unusual position and had the controller lock out.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Seconded. Any time there's a lengthy level problem, the controller checks out for a while. Have you tried any of the buttons on the console? Mine seems to go completely unresponsive.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Did more troubleshooting yesterday. I jacked up the LH Rear, unbolted the level sensor to exercise the linkage and also unplugged, checked and re-plugged the electrical connector. The MVBs I was monitoring showed that the "Height Deviation" value kept changing depending on how much I lifted the car but the "Absolute Height" value is stuck at 255 and never changes!?

I was not able to clear the level sensor fault but was able to clear the "Control Switched Off" fault a few times but it keeps coming back. When I had the rear jacked up, the "suspension to low" message went away and instead it was the more usual "running gear workshop" message. I keep this parts car in Jack Mode so that's the message it usually has but it still didn't want to level the car. I kept looking at the MVBs and saw that once in a while after various fault resets the compressor ran for a few seconds building up pressure in the receiver tank.

Finally, after multiple ignition on, clearing faults, running the engine, ign off for a while, back on, ... the compressor ran longer and the car rose back up and leveled out on all four corner in the high setting (which I had originally left it in when I switched the jack mode on). Unfortunately I can say what triggered it to work and it still seems to be stuck in Jack Mode. The level control buttons in the center console are responding to input but won't accept any changes due to the car being in Jack Mode. I know I can get it out of jack mode if I drive it at more than 3 (?) mph but that's currently not an option. Holding both buttons is supposed to get it out of jack mode but that doesn't seem to work. Any other suggestions?

The other unresolved issue besides the still faulty level sensor is that the car just idles, it does not take any input form the accelerator pedal or at least not more than a little bit higher rpm. No fault codes on controller 1 (engine). Is that level sensor issue preventing the engine to rev higher?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

A disabled throttle usually indicates a problem with the ABS controller. Are there any faults logged against that? It may be, though, that certain specific faults on the level controller also disable the throttle, although mine didn't when the front end was completely collapsed, I was still able to drive it home.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

invisiblewave said:


> A disabled throttle usually indicates a problem with the ABS controller. Are there any faults logged against that?


You nailed it, thanks! One wheel speed sensor had triggered in intermittent fault in the ABS controller. I cleared it and have full throttle control again. 

Also tried resetting the level control system off fault and after a few tries it finally staid cleared and the suspension system is not back to normal and I can lower and raise the car with the level control button. The RH rear ride height sensor fault is still there but doesn't seem to impact the leveling function.


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## BlackhawkTDI (Jul 8, 2020)

_Taz_ said:


> 2 primary places where the strut will leak :
> 
> 1) top of the piston rod ( under the rubber cover at the top of the strut where the electrical plug goes : but this is rare unless something has worked loose ) : For this inspection you need to remove the plastic scuttle panel : 5 mins work
> 
> ...




My right front is leaking at the top, where the electrical connection is. Will this be a simple fix? Like tightening something back up that may have worked loose?


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

BlackhawkTDI said:


> My right front is leaking at the top, where the electrical connection is. Will this be a simple fix? Like tightening something back up that may have worked loose?


No.

I'd buy a new strut.


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## BlackhawkTDI (Jul 8, 2020)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> No.
> 
> I'd buy a new strut.


Gotcha, thanks.

-Ken


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