# BI GAS INJECTION, real hp +



## hodfolly (Jun 15, 2010)

before i talk about it, read what im runing first. 
30 psi on a custom k03 turbo with the stock n75 and "420" map clamp. stock 180 1.8t intercooler. 

instead of using w/m, i used LPG. i just tapped my TIP evap line on the tip to a tank in the trunk with a valve by the drivers seat. with my handy vag com cable, i was able to find the perfect amount needed, and i can adjust it on the fly. 

propane "BI GASS" has been around for a bit, pretty cheap, very very effective and its 110 oct. not to mention its wild effect on AIT temps if done preturbo. stuff is pretty cold coming out of the tank, and it can absorb alot of heat in the turbo compression phase. not to mention lamda has adapted fine, almost like the ecu is treating it like bad injector and compensating for it. i can't wait to make some unisettings adjustments and see if it will run off lpg 100%. 

anyways, the engine runs great off it, im still on my first tank, and my mpg is in the 60 mpg on the highway at 65. 

anybody else done it here??? i would like to trade notes.


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

hodfolly said:


> before i talk about it, read what im runing first.
> 30 psi on a custom k03 turbo with the stock n75 and "420" map clamp. stock 180 1.8t intercooler.
> 
> instead of using w/m, i used LPG. i just tapped my TIP evap line on the tip to a tank in the trunk with a valve by the drivers seat. with my handy vag com cable, i was able to find the perfect amount needed, and i can adjust it on the fly.
> ...


This sounds great, any news on this?


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## hodfolly (Jun 15, 2010)

at your own risk, this is what i did. 

T off the evap line going into your TIP or if NA into your mani evap line with a hose runing into the cabin. take a cheap torch or propane tank, and tap it into your evap. the concept and what montronic likes is if you bleed a small amount if you don't make any adjustments for 02 time adapt and primary fuel adjusatments. but i found that anything more then a regular torch head valve in the full open position would cause montronic to freak out,. but at idle, that amount in a bi gas setup is almost enough to turn off the injectors. what happens is that the ecu adapts the fuel injectors by the 02 sensor down, because with the lpg you will be runing rich. but here is the best thing, a very small amount of lpg makes for a nice clean smooth hp/tq gain on top of the mpg increase. why? better cylinder combustion and charge. and lower cylinder temps. next step for me is making it run 100% off lpg using the stock injectors. 

water meth sucks because the ecu can not adapt well to it, montronic likes things to be a constant, not a on/off. would you put windsheild washer fluid into your gas tank and expect a performance increase????? in theory to water meth, its just not a good way to make good power.


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## VEE-DUBBER (Nov 22, 2000)

water/meth isn't for making power. It allows you to throw more timing/boost at your car safely, thus making you able to tune for more power. A K03 @ 30spi isn't good no matter what precautions you have done.

What you are doing here is cool, maybe some pictures or vag logs to back this up though. Sounds a little too good to be true. regardless :thumbup:


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## one.fast.gti (Dec 21, 2009)

VEE-DUBBER said:


> water/meth isn't for making power. It allows you to throw more timing/boost at your car safely, thus making you able to tune for more power. A K03 @ 30spi isn't good no matter what precautions you have done.


Yupp. Smaller framed turbos have to work extremely hard to put that kind of pressure into a system. you are putting a ton of pressure on the small compressor/ shaft to get that kind of psi. thus causing a ton of wear and tear. And I second the methanol comment as well. Methanol simply allows for adjustment of other components (boost to a certain level, timing etc) to be adjusted to get more power. 
Obviously cooler air is more dense and thus is easier to compress but throwing 30psi at your engine from a small framed turbo like a K03/3s or even the K04 series is very dangerous.

The theory that you are working with though is very interesting. I second VEE-DUBBER, I would like to see data from this as well


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## hodfolly (Jun 15, 2010)

ive been playing around with this in a 5.7 gmc and a 650 polaris 2 stroke on lpg for pure fun, that with the vag blocks, it looks like ive got something. propane is a higher oct fuel, so timing to run pure lpg requires a timing increase. run a mix of lpg and gasoline, will lead you toward a constant higher octaine fuel charge. its kinda like the evap guys, just adding "extra" high octane fuel in a vapor. ive tried the evap with some success, just a T and 1 checkvalve. 

no hydrolocking of the compression stroke like w/m, just power. 

there are some pretty obvious lemmi adjustments that can be made to tune this into a new wave of gasoline/ (LPG/woodgas/coal gas/natral gas. vw's. 

it fits the me7 efficency graph like the desighned it run of it............

but here we go, woodgasification as a gas source for this setup would be great right?. 
protoype almost done with logs and graphs and anything else you guys want.

thats right, its coming.... mainstream micro woodgasification power plants right under your hood!

im in the burlington vt area, and looking for people who want a conversion.The TT makes the tdi look like a gas hog. :wave: god bless the invention of the 02 sensor.......


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## scott66 (Jul 5, 2003)

This is interesting and not new. Some countries have been using LPG, otherwise known as autogas, since the 1940s...good luck.


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## hodfolly (Jun 15, 2010)

ok, the only thing preveting this thread moving forward is you guys. its been done, it works, how much can the montronic adapt without any adjustments, about what a normal torch head from a small lpg tank puts out. anymore and she will stall out without timing and other lemmi adjustments. n249 valve works great as a on/off tapped into something for a switch. 

but im almost done with the bygas out of woodgasification. im using a old tech to accomplish it. all want is the car to idle for almost free.

why, pretty nice home generator if you ask me.,

im not bs, the tech is there, esp with bosch me7 ecus with the adaptation channels.

if you think your car runs good on w/m, try lpg, you wont be disapointed.

my 2.7t allroad made a astonshing 44mpg on a 300 mile trip at 65 mpg. all of a small tank for 2 bucks. do the math.


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## hodfolly (Jun 15, 2010)

im sitting in the tt right now, for the last 2 hrs at idle using wood gas, my miles to empty has only increased, to make it more fun, i am runing a large d/c a/c converter and im powering my house 100% of the tt 'battery. the injectors are just barley running, and she is puring like a kitten. lamda is -25.:laugh:

i have found that lpg and wood gas like a few small adjustments to work the best. all thanks to the web and vcds and unisettings.

next step is to make it smaller and mounted in the rear bumper area, and use just basic material like cardboard and scrape wood. with the old sai pump i was a able to to use my gas stove of the wood gas, its all too easy, and safer then you might think. i call it 2012 tech.
performace from your dreams, and you can run your house off a car that is getting free fuel.
burlington vt guys and gaL, PM ME and i will give you a free demo. you won;t be dissapointed. i don't charge but i do take tips.....

45mpg easy, and lower ait temps, higer preformance and a way to run your house of the grid.


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