# The dealers know more than they are saying....



## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

I found out this weekend that there was recently an A3/S3/Q3 unveiling for regional dealers in Atlanta. They apparently had each of those models there and were giving information and answering questions about the cars. About all I could get out of the local dealer was that the back seat in the new A3 had more room than the current model A4. I will be making some phone calls Monday to figure out why we have not been told what they saw, etc.....
If any of you have a good relationship with any of your dealerships, you might want to call and see what you can get out of them too.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Cyncris said:


> I found out this weekend that there was recently an A3/S3/Q3 unveiling for regional dealers in Atlanta. They apparently had each of those models there and were giving information and answering questions about the cars. About all I could get out of the local dealer was that the back seat in the new A3 had more room than the current model A4. I will be making some phone calls Monday to figure out why we have not been told what they saw, etc.....
> If any of you have a good relationship with any of your dealerships, you might want to call and see what you can get out of them too.


There's also been what seems like a fairly massive reveal/training in Germany recently. I know my dealer sent one person, and I've seen some other dealers mention it on G+ as well.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

Cyncris said:


> I found out this weekend that there was recently an A3/S3/*Q3* unveiling for regional dealers in Atlanta. They apparently had each of those models there and were giving information and answering questions about the cars. About all I could get out of the local dealer was that *the back seat in the new A3 had more room than the current model A4*. I will be making some phone calls Monday to figure out why we have not been told what they saw, etc.....
> If any of you have a good relationship with any of your dealerships, you might want to call and see what you can get out of them too.


Thanks for sharing. I thought the plan on the Q3 was end of 2014, but maybe they launch earlier, seems the this covers the 3 out of 5 LA showings. Good news on the backseat, surprising.

B


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

So then I suppose this it totally wrong if they showed the Q3


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

BrutusA3 said:


> Thanks for sharing. I thought the plan on the Q3 was end of 2014, but maybe they launch earlier, seems the this covers the 3 out of 5 LA showings. Good news on the backseat, surprising.
> 
> B


Q3 is still slated for late 2014/early 2015.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Dan Halen said:


> There's also been what seems like a fairly massive reveal/training in Germany recently. I know my dealer sent one person, and I've seen some other dealers mention it on G+ as well.


Can I ask a dumb question? What's the reference to "G+"?

Thanks.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Cyncris said:


> I found out this weekend that there was recently an A3/S3/Q3 unveiling for regional dealers in Atlanta. They apparently had each of those models there and were giving information and answering questions about the cars. About all I could get out of the local dealer was that the back seat in the new A3 had more room than the current model A4. I will be making some phone calls Monday to figure out why we have not been told what they saw, etc.....
> If any of you have a good relationship with any of your dealerships, you might want to call and see what you can get out of them too.


I don't have the leg/thigh room handy for the two cars, but I do know that the A4 still has a substantial size advantage:

B8 A4:
Wheelbase: 2808cm
Rear Seat Headroom: 952cm
Rear Seat Width: 1442

8V A3 Sedan:
Wheelbase: 2637cm
Rear Seat HEadroom: 924cm
Rear Seat Width: 1423

I know that the 8V has slightly more rear space than the current A3, but it's not an extraordinary amount. Having spent a fair amount of time in A4s, the A4 still feels substantially more spacious in the back than does the A3. I imagine the sloping coupe-type roof of the new sedan won't help that feeling much.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

davewg said:


> Can I ask a dumb question? What's the reference to "G+"?
> 
> Thanks.


Google Plus, the social network for people not cool enough for Facebook.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Cyncris said:


> I found out this weekend that there was recently an A3/S3/Q3 unveiling for regional dealers in Atlanta. They apparently had each of those models there and were giving information and answering questions about the cars. About all I could get out of the local dealer was that the back seat in the new A3 had more room than the current model A4. I will be making some phone calls Monday to figure out why we have not been told what they saw, etc.....
> If any of you have a good relationship with any of your dealerships, you might want to call and see what you can get out of them too.


I don't have the leg/thigh room handy for the two cars, but I do know that the A4 still has a substantial size advantage:

B8 A4:
Wheelbase: 2808cm
Rear Seat Headroom: 952cm
Rear Seat Width: 1442

8V A3 Sedan:
Wheelbase: 2637cm
Rear Seat HEadroom: 924cm
Rear Seat Width: 1423

I know that the 8V has slightly more rear space than the current A3, but it's not an extraordinary amount. Having spent a fair amount of time in A4s, the A4 still feels substantially more spacious in the back than does the A3. I imagine the sloping coupe-type roof of the new sedan won't help that feeling much.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Dan Halen said:


> Google Plus, the social network for people not cool enough for Facebook.


Duh :banghead: I should've managed to figure that one out. Thanks.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

Travis Grundke said:


> I don't have the leg/thigh room handy for the two cars, but I do know that the A4 still has a substantial size advantage:
> 
> B8 A4:
> Wheelbase: 2808cm
> ...


I have a Golf R (very similar to S3 in size) and my co-worker has a A4. I honestly cannot notice any big difference in interior volume. Per the official numbers, the Golf R has more head room while the A4 has more shoulder room, both have nearly identical leg room. This makes sense because A4 is wider while Golf is taller. Overall, pretty similar in interior volume, so I can see why the upcoming A3 might feel bigger for a rear passenger.


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## VeeDubDriver (Oct 1, 2001)

DaLeadBull said:


> I have a Golf R (very similar to S3 in size) and my co-worker has a A4. I honestly cannot notice any big difference in interior volume. Per the official numbers, the Golf R has more head room while the A4 has more shoulder room, both have nearly identical leg room. This makes sense because A4 is wider while Golf is taller. Overall, pretty similar in interior volume, so I can see why the upcoming A3 might feel bigger for a rear passenger.


I can also tell you the the back seat of my R felt much more spacious than the back of the CLA I recently sat in, so I would imaging that the A3 will have that going for it over the MBZ.


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## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

I am hoping the new S3 has at least the same amount of room in the back seat. I have to move my seat so far forward for even the smallest of people to get in the back now that I feel like I am crammed in the dash. I always have to be careful when driving because I can't move my feet from gas to brake near as quickly when I have my seat jacked up enough for someone to get behind me.


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## EZ (Jun 22, 1999)

VeeDubDriver said:


> I can also tell you the the back seat of my R felt much more spacious than the back of the CLA I recently sat in, so I would imaging that the A3 will have that going for it over the MBZ.


Rear seat legroom will be a significant contributing factor to my purchase decision. If the new S3 has as much as my R, it'll be a definite canidate. If not, I'll probably stick with the R.


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## Midlife Crisis 2 (Aug 30, 2006)

My local dealer (in Montgomery, AL) sent a representative to Germany sometime in the last week or so.

I'm supposed to call him tomorrow to get some details about his trip. I, too, believe that the dealers are holding back information.

I'll try to find out more tomorrow. Regards, MC2.


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## t.oorboh! (Feb 11, 2012)

the only thing they could be holding back is date of availability and availability of a non EV sportback or maybe availability of a manual.

do you guys seriously think they're hiding some major info? what could this big secret be?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

t.oorboh! said:


> the only thing they could be holding back is date of availability and availability of a non EV sportback or maybe availability of a manual.
> 
> do you guys seriously think they're hiding some major info? what could this big secret be?


There's no "big secret." It's been verified that there was package and color information in the system recently, but I've been told it's no longer there. So we know there's at least something we're not privy to, even if still very preliminary in certainty.


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## Davespeed (May 4, 2004)

t.oorboh! said:


> the only thing they could be holding back is date of availability and availability of a non EV sportback or maybe availability of a manual.
> 
> do you guys seriously think they're hiding some major info? what could this big secret be?


Not hiding. Just wishful thinking. 

Posted from the Davespeed R&D facility.....


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

The only possible things that the dealer could know that we don't is the pricing and release date.

Other than that, most of them are clueless when it comes to knowledge about the cars they're selling.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

Yesterday I was at a few dealerships looking at CPO's.

First one as we were chatting during the drive (man one of the cutest saleswoman ever! She almost sold me an A4 S-Line when I wanted the S4...)
While we were talking she said they received an e-mail with pricing and packages. I asked her if she could forward to me and she was going to do it from her phone but she left it in the office. I was on my lunch and forgot about it, but I was going to email her today.

Second in Toronto while on a S4 test drive, he mentioned that there is a big dealer gathering for Canada at the end of November to show off the A3 and S3. He said it will likely be the base that comes over (obvious), that they will be receiving their first base A3's in the early months of 2014 (thinking end of January). In other words, it sounds like they are already in the computers and a lot of the first allocations will be dealership. Brings to question, maybe can start pre-ordering? I asked about the A3 2.0T Quattro and he got really quiet while we were driving, mind you we got interrupted by a guy in an Echo trying to cut in front of me. He kept drawing me back to the S4 after that lol. I'm not sure what it meant or maybe from talking so much he said too much, or he was worried he was going to lose the sale.

Going to bug the first lady actually this morning and see if she comes back with anything.


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## conlson (Aug 7, 2013)

Midlife Crisis 2 said:


> My local dealer (in Montgomery, AL) sent a representative to Germany sometime in the last week or so.
> 
> I'm supposed to call him tomorrow to get some details about his trip. I, too, believe that the dealers are holding back information.
> 
> I'll try to find out more tomorrow. Regards, MC2.


I stopped at my local dealer in the Minneapolis area yesterday. They had one of their reps in Germany last week for this event where they were able to see and drive and A3. They also drove the Mercedes CLA as part of the visit to make a comparison with the A3. The rep came away very impressed (obviously, he's an Audi rep), and talked about some of the key differences that we already know about (more standard features in A3, poor rear seating space in CLA, etc.). I got the impression that they are expecting an all-out launch of the A3 in March/April, meaning a lot of cars on the ground. Maybe something like 60 cars in the first month with a variety of colors, packages and engines. Here in Minneapolis I would think they will get a lot of Quattro vehicles, and all with heated seats  They didn't know when pricing and option package details would be officially available.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

We're going to need representatives near the ports of entry for Audi to start standing watch around January 1 to provide updates on stock arriving on US soil. Any takers?

I'm unfortunately nearly as centrally located in the interior of our giant land mass as you can get. :laugh:


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

I posted in the 'Canadian pricing release' some info on the base model (likely). They will be available for viewing December 6th for a public event


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## tclky (Aug 22, 2012)

Rudy_H said:


> I posted in the 'Canadian pricing release' some info on the base model (likely). They will be available for viewing December 6th for a public event


Good to hear. That's the second source stating that dealers will have a floor model in December so it's looking like it will actually happen. Looking forward to placing a factory order if the car and pricing turns out as expected.


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## Midlife Crisis 2 (Aug 30, 2006)

Midlife Crisis 2 said:


> My local dealer (in Montgomery, AL) sent a representative to Germany sometime in the last week or so.
> 
> I'm supposed to call him tomorrow to get some details about his trip. I, too, believe that the dealers are holding back information.
> 
> I'll try to find out more tomorrow. Regards, MC2.


The Montgomery Audi rep was in Munich/Bavaria for a week. He drove the 2-liter models, but a 1.8L was not available. He said the diesel would not be available upon US launch -- might be a few months after the March/April launch.

Other than that, he could not provide any additional information than what had already been posted in this forum.

He was truly excited about driving really fast on the Autobahn, especially in the S3 model. He said at 175 MPH the car was rock solid stable. (I lived in Europe for 3 years and know that the Europeans truly respect their fellow drivers. They certainly do not stay in the left lane for no reason ... the tickets for impeding traffic are quite expensive. I wish US drivers had some idea what the left lane was for.) 

One area where he felt disappointed was that the US reps were shown many aspects of the new A3 that were only available in the European markets.

I asked about the convertible and he said it would be on display around July/August with roll-out about 3 months later.

He did add that Audi is very concerned that the A3 will cannibalize A4 sales. I'm sorry I could not add much, but at least I gave it a shot.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Midlife Crisis 2 said:


> One area where he felt disappointed was that the US reps were shown many aspects of the new A3 that were only available in the European markets.


Hmm...

Other than frivolous stuff such as auto dimming and power folding side mirrors, 42 options for steering wheel button configurations, and eight interior color options, I'm not sure there's much that they could cut from the car without delivering a hacked product to us. I do imagine that means we'll go without the magnetic suspension. Meh; alright. I was sort of okay with Audi making that decision for me, anyway, after seeing the price of the components for the S4.

... but like I've said in some other threads, don't mess with the S3 super sport seats, damnit!


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

I just got back from Munich and A3 launch training. There's nothing being held back. The car is awesome. The S3 is even more awesome. Order guides sometime in January, 1.8t, TDi frontrak and 2.0t quattro start arriving late first quarter. S3 and cab late second/ early 3rd quarter and then by end of year etron sportback.

We also got to drive the CLA back to back, I can say without hesitation, the A3 flat out destroys the CLA in every category.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> I just got back from Munich and A3 launch training. There's nothing being held back. The car is awesome. The S3 is even more awesome. Order guides sometime in January, 1.8t, TDi frontrak and 2.0t quattro start arriving late first quarter. S3 and cab late second/ early 3rd quarter and then by end of year etron sportback.
> 
> We also got to drive the CLA back to back, I can say without hesitation, the A3 flat out destroys the CLA in every category.


There's a name I haven't seen in a long time.  Thanks man! 

So we're talking July/ August at worst for the S3? I can work with that.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Hahaha, yeah I think August is for sure a safe bet. We got to drive the Euro spec sportback with mag ride on an autocross course, the thing scoots and handles incredibly, not to mention has an exhaust note via flapper in dynamic mode! The fit and finish is all Audi, standard US features are said to be leather, Xenons with LED running lights and a panorama roof like the A5 that actually opens all the way! Where the old A3 was often compared to a Jetta, this car will not be, it's an Audi all the way. Fit and finish is spot on, the new MMI is super user friendly and the interior, especially in the S3 is pretty close to perfect. I was just saying to my boss today, we're gonna need the B9 A4 pretty quick as I have no doubt this car is going to eat up A4 sales. It's more like a mini A6, can't wait!


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

My eyes are on the LA Auto Show right now as I'll be flying out for that, but after that, and after we get through the holidays and settle into the winter doldrums of January and February, I think I'm going to start getting antsy.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Dan Halen said:


> My eyes are on the LA Auto Show right now as I'll be flying out for that, but after that, and after we get through the holidays and settle into the winter doldrums of January and February, I think I'm going to start getting antsy.


Geesh...I'm two years away and I'm already antsy reading some of the latest postings. Now I just hope they can deliver spectacular equipment for around 35k (list).


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## brennok (Jun 5, 2007)

I guess I may need to start going by the Audi dealership to start making some friends. I really am interested in the S3. I just hope optioned out it doesn't break the bank. The sports seats look nice, but it will depend on how tight of a fit they are if at all. I passed on the MKIV R32 because of the seats. They just pinched me the wrong way. My friend who was with me loved them but he is taller and not as broad shouldered. The MKV R32 I like the seats but they aren't the sport seat like they have overseas. Hopefully worst case the seat will be an option.


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## MaX PL (Apr 10, 2006)

its unfortunate the s3 will come a quarter or two after the a3. i kinda wanted to do euro delivery for august, but thats likely not gonna happen if domestic deliveries may start at that time.

oh well, i guess i'll wait til my next car to do a euro delivery.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

I'm 6' 1" 220 and thought they fit great, I wasn't in them long but I had a B8 S4 and they are comparable to that. I flogged the car through the slalom as hard as I could and they held me perfectly. Like I said before this car is a huge step up from the previous A3

I'm thinking the 2.0t S Line will be right around $35k nicely equipped. Full LED headlights are an option as well as adaptive cruise. 18" wheels are standard with optional 19's, both look good.

A new feature in the MMI called picture destinations allows people to send a photo of their location to you on your phone and then you can send it directly to the nav via the myaudi app and get directions. Overall, the new MMI is awesome and super user-friendly. Makes the current system seem obsolete, even the A8.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

conlson said:


> I stopped at my local dealer in the Minneapolis area yesterday. They had one of their reps in Germany last week for this event where they were able to see and drive and A3. They also drove the Mercedes CLA as part of the visit to make a comparison with the A3. The rep came away very impressed (obviously, he's an Audi rep), and talked about some of the key differences that we already know about (more standard features in A3, poor rear seating space in CLA, etc.). I got the impression that they are expecting an all-out launch of the A3 in March/April, meaning a lot of cars on the ground. Maybe something like 60 cars in the first month with a variety of colors, packages and engines. Here in Minneapolis I would think they will get a lot of Quattro vehicles, and all with heated seats  They didn't know when pricing and option package details would be officially available.


man i need a car!! Please let it be March/April, please!! :thumbup::thumbup: Hell i would be so happy with an A3 2.0T Quattro S-line even. If i can have the S3 for a reasonable range in the 40s, i will wait a couple of month too .


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> I'm thinking the 2.0t S Line will be right around $35k nicely equipped. Full LED headlights are an option as well as adaptive cruise. 18" wheels are standard with optional 19's, both look good.


Best news so far. I'd be happy with the 18", but the fill LED headlights would be nice.



Mr. Rabboto said:


> A new feature in the MMI called picture destinations allows people to send a photo of their location to you on your phone and then you can send it directly to the nav via the myaudi app and get directions. Overall, the new MMI is awesome and super user-friendly. Makes the current system seem obsolete, even the A8.


This sounds very cool. Are there different MMI versions, or is the system offered on the base A3 the "standard" system across the line?

Our new Durango was available with two version of Chrysler's UConnect; one with NAV standard and UConnect Access (which we got) and a "base" version where NAV could be added via software via the dealer (for a cost), but lacked the system still lacked other features.

Mr Rabboto, if I were anywhere near Vegas, I'd be looking to make friends


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## Bamm1 (Oct 17, 2013)

Dan Halen said:


> Hmm...
> 
> Other than frivolous stuff such as auto dimming and power folding side mirrors, 42 options for steering wheel button configurations, and eight interior color options, I'm not sure there's much that they could cut from the car without delivering a hacked product to us. I do imagine that means we'll go without the magnetic suspension. Meh; alright. I was sort of okay with Audi making that decision for me, anyway, after seeing the price of the components for the S4.
> 
> ... but like I've said in some other threads, don't mess with the S3 super sport seats, damnit!


I keep “hoping” (trying to convince myself) that AoA’s “version” of the S3 will follow along very closely with how the US TTS ended up being configured. The engine was not detuned vs. ROW, Magnetic Ride Control, etc. I will add that I will not be surprised if Magnetic Ride Control is not offered on any version of the A3 (just like the non-S TT). But given that the non-S TT’s starting price is in the same range as the current estimates for the base S3, I am sure I am just setting myself up for disappointment…….


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

There will only be one version of the MMI. Another cool thing about it is they are working to get other cell phone providers on the program so people can use their existing plans, sim card, etc. for google search and wifi. You will also be able to post to facebook and twitter with voice command.

I can assure you, the S3 will not disappoint, at the end of the day, the 20hp drop is irrelevant as the tq is what matters. The car will give the current S4 a run for it's money. Like I said before, I think the days of comparing the A3 to a VW, even an R32, which I've owned, are over. This car is an Audi and it's going to be as big as Audi is expecting it to be. :thumbup:


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> There will only be one version of the MMI. Another cool thing about it is they are working to get other cell phone providers on the program so people can use their existing plans, sim card, etc. for google search and wifi. You will also be able to post to facebook and twitter with voice command.
> 
> I can assure you, the S3 will not disappoint, at the end of the day, the 20hp drop is irrelevant as the tq is what matters. The car will give the current S4 a run for it's money. Like I said before, I think the days of comparing the A3 to a VW, even an R32, which I've owned, are over. This car is an Audi and it's going to be as big as Audi is expecting it to be. :thumbup:


So, the US version of the S3 will be rated at 280 hp instead of 300 hp overseas? 20 hp is far from irrelevant but is this just a "on paper" detune or are they actually modifying the software?

Any news about the RS3?  Wishful thinking on my part but what the hell...


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

My point about the hp is the fact that if the torque remains the same, did the hp really change? 


Very reliable sources have said an RS3 sedan is being seriously considered for the US. With a target price point of around $55-$60k, which is essentially Premium Plus S4 with Nav and sport rear diff money. I've also heard that if they do it, they would really like to do a widebody, marinate on that for a minute, won't you?! Now I'm getting myself excited.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> My point about the hp is the fact that if the torque remains the same, did the hp really change?
> 
> 
> Very reliable sources have said an RS3 sedan is being seriously considered for the US. With a target price point of around $55-$60k, which is essentially Premium Plus S4 with Nav and sport rear diff money. I've also heard that if they do it, they would really like to do a widebody, marinate on that for a minute, won't you?! Now I'm getting myself excited.


Cool; glad to hear it's going to be in the unobtanium price range for me. I'd love to have an RS3, but I have to keep it in perspective. I'll need to replace the Rabbit in a few years, and the Q5 TDI is the bulls-eye right now. I can't spend $60k on myself if I'm going to get that as well.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> My point about the hp is the fact that if the torque remains the same, did the hp really change?
> 
> 
> Very reliable sources have said an RS3 sedan is being seriously considered for the US. With a target price point of around $55-$60k, which is essentially Premium Plus S4 with Nav and sport rear diff money. I've also heard that if they do it, they would really like to do a widebody, marinate on that for a minute, won't you?! Now I'm getting myself excited.


Oh hell yes to the widebody!!!

But $55-60K is kinda steep considering the competition isn't it? I was expecting around $50k starting price but I guess we'll see. In any case, if they are going to be asking that kind of money it better be pretty special!


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

It's on par with what the TTRS sold for and frankly, you would get a lot more car for the money IMO.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Any chance you happened to notice the colors that were listed in the system a week or so ago before they took the A3 information out? If so, anything worthy of mention other than the standard greys, silvers, and whites?


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

I wouldn't expect anything different than what you see on Audi.co.uk

The reason for silver/black/gray/white is that's what we sell, even red can be tough sometimes. As much as many of us like Imola, Nogaro, etc. anytime we order one, they sit on our lot waiting for an enthusiast somewhere in the country to find them, lol. I may go exclusive just for the halibut.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Yeah, trying for Samoa Orange but may settle for Misano Red because even that will be fairly exclusive.


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## tclky (Aug 22, 2012)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> ....
> 
> The reason for silver/black/gray/white is that's what we sell ....


In my opinion those aren't colors but shades you would see in a black and white film. I'll take Scuba Blue or Shiraz Red. Of the choices you mentioned, the one that has some appeal to me is silver because it looks good in the sun and doesn't show dirt.

One more thought. If Audi is trying to attract people new to the brand with the A3, those buyers may or may not have the same color preferences as the current customers.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Well, with Audi exclusive, you can get whatever color you want and 34 months straight of record sales in the US, I think they have a pretty good grasp on what works and what doesn't. :thumb up:

Shiraz red and Scuba blue are available in the UK as well as Brilliant red and Misano red.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> There will only be one version of the MMI. Another cool thing about it is they are working to get other cell phone providers on the program so people can use their existing plans, sim card, etc. for google search and wifi. You will also be able to post to facebook and twitter with voice command.
> 
> I can assure you, the S3 will not disappoint, at the end of the day, the 20hp drop is irrelevant as the tq is what matters. The car will give the current S4 a run for it's money. Like I said before, I think the days of comparing the A3 to a VW, even an R32, which I've owned, are over. This car is an Audi and it's going to be as big as Audi is expecting it to be. :thumbup:


by one version does that mean Navigation is standard? Or is that going to be extra?


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## mike3141 (Feb 16, 1999)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> There will only be one version of the MMI.


I believe that MMI with/without Nav will be an option.


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## VeeDubbinJetta91 (Aug 19, 2002)

mike3141 said:


> I believe that MMI with/without Nav will be an option.


If its anything like the current A4/5/6/7/8?? It will be MMI(Navigation) AMI(Non-nav)


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

caliatenza said:


> by one version does that mean Navigation is standard? Or is that going to be extra?


IIRC, in Europe there are several versions of the MMI system. The basic system is a smaller screen with much lower resolution, the next step up includes SD-card based navigation with the lower-res graphics and the top-end (usually called the "Technology Pack") is the high resolution screen with full navigation/Google integration.

So it's possible that Audi will craft a standard screen size for the US and make it the high resolution screen - the only option being Navigation or not. My guess, though, is that if you get the base version it's going to be the smaller screen with lower resolution and the full navigation version will get the larger screen/higher resolution configuration.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

I'm pretty sure the basic MMI w/nav will be standard and then if you want Audi connect, with Google and wifi hotspot you'll have to get a plan. The new MMI has 4g LTE capability, and like I said, they are trying to secure other cell providers. 

Also, the new A3 Bang & Olufsen Sound system has 14 speakers and 705 watts!


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## mike3141 (Feb 16, 1999)

The U.K. A3 configurator lets you select MMI-plus for £1495. To add Nav to MMI-plus is £495.

Since MMI w/Nav has not been announced as a standard feature I'm guessing that it will be optional.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

You could be right, it was a lot to absorb in two days after traveling for 18 hours, however I think until the details with any new Audi connect providers are worked out, we won't really know exactly what the US package will be.

I'm pretty sure everything will be announced at the LA Auto show.


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## Need4Speed2012 (Oct 2, 2012)

CLA 45 AMG starts at just under $50,000. That RS3 better be damn special or they've just priced themselves out of the market.


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## mookieblaylock (Sep 25, 2005)

Need4Speed2012 said:


> CLA 45 AMG starts at just under $50,000. That RS3 better be damn special or they've just priced themselves out of the market.


you have to compare option to option as the base a45 is decontented


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> Well, with Audi exclusive, you can get whatever color you want and 34 months straight of record sales in the US, I think they have a pretty good grasp on what works and what doesn't. :thumb up:
> 
> Shiraz red and Scuba blue are available in the UK as well as Brilliant red and Misano red.


So you don't have any reason to believe the A3 and S3 will be excluded from the Exclusive program? I know the program has been in flux in the US market in the past year, and I've heard some suggestions that it may not be made available to us.


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## anti suv (Sep 26, 2013)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> It's on par with what the TTRS sold for and frankly, you would get a lot more car for the money IMO.


The TT cars have a higher starting price than A/S/RS3 cars. The TTS was around $48,700 and the TTRS around $57,200. Thats ~17.5% increase for the TTRS over the TTS. I would think a similar percent increase for a RS3 over an S3 would be a reasonable assumption. Amusing an S3 is around $40,000 then adding 17.5% would put the RS3 around $47,000. I would guess a little closer to $50,000 myself.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> I'm pretty sure the basic MMI w/nav will be standard and then if you want Audi connect, with Google and wifi hotspot you'll have to get a plan. The new MMI has 4g LTE capability, and like I said, they are trying to secure other cell providers.
> 
> Also, the new A3 Bang & Olufsen Sound system has 14 speakers and 705 watts!


if Nav is optional, i hope it wont be too much over the base system. Oh wow, 705 watts is pretty insane...! Cant wait till the show to hear more about whats coming for us. I just wish the car would be on sale before March!!!


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> My point about the hp is the fact that if the torque remains the same, did the hp really change?
> 
> 
> Very reliable sources have said an RS3 sedan is being seriously considered for the US. With a target price point of around $55-$60k, which is essentially Premium Plus S4 with Nav and sport rear diff money. I've also heard that if they do it, they would really like to do a widebody, marinate on that for a minute, won't you?! Now I'm getting myself excited.


comedy.
$60k gets you a new corvette, a Chevy SS, A bmw 550, a CTS with the 420 hp motor, of a bevy of bigger faster better cars from other makers. The idea of a $60k subcompact car with a widebody kit will appeal to exactly 25 people, all of them on VWVortex, and all of them trying to figure our how much overtime they have to work landscaping to pay for the car, minus the $50/month mom charges them for living in the basement.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

They want to keep the RS3 under $60k is my understanding.

They had an A3 S line with exclusive interior at the training center in Munich, so yes, I think exclusive will be available.

Compared to the CLA, the A3 is damn special, lol. Seriously, no comparison in the two cars.


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## VeeDubbinJetta91 (Aug 19, 2002)

caliatenza said:


> if Nav is optional, i hope it wont be too much over the base system. Oh wow, 705 watts is pretty insane...! Cant wait till the show to hear more about whats coming for us. I just wish the car would be on sale before March!!!


I have got to imagine NAV will be optional and not standard...they have to make their extra money somehow. If it is anything like the A4's it was a $3,000 option, granted this also got you back up camera and PDC


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## MaX PL (Apr 10, 2006)

FractureCritical said:


> comedy.
> $60k gets you a new corvette,* a Chevy SS, A bmw 550, a CTS with the 420 hp motor*, of a bevy of bigger faster better cars from other makers. The idea of a $60k subcompact car with a widebody kit will appeal to exactly 25 people, all of them on VWVortex, and all of them trying to figure our how much overtime they have to work landscaping to pay for the car, minus the $50/month mom charges them for living in the basement.


comedy.
you think anyone with an interest in a RS3 will want anyone of those boats?
you think anyone with an interest in a RS3 wants to be seen a Corvette, the plumbers sports car, which for most, is in no way a practical daily driver?
and faster? maybe the corvette will be faster than a RS3, but not those nascar wagons and the bmw.

youre association of anyone wanting a euro sports car withh vortex basement dwellers is laughable.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

VeeDubbinJetta91 said:


> I have got to imagine NAV will be optional and not standard...they have to make their extra money somehow. If it is anything like the A4's it was a $3,000 option, granted this also got you back up camera and PDC


Hopefully with the MQB platform it won't be $3k..either way it's worth it though.. Along with B&O audio. Both are must have to me..


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

anti suv said:


> The TT cars have a higher starting price than A/S/RS3 cars. The TTS was around $48,700 and the TTRS around $57,200. Thats ~17.5% increase for the TTRS over the TTS. I would think a similar percent increase for a RS3 over an S3 would be a reasonable assumption. Amusing an S3 is around $40,000 then adding 17.5% would put the RS3 around $47,000. I would guess a little closer to $50,000 myself.


Exactly, this was the assumption that I was under too. The TT has a higher starting price than the A3, so I would assume the RS3 would come in around $50K. If they price it at $60k, it would be a big mistake imo.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

i found these pictures from the CLA forum (from a member in Norway) to help tide us over , its the base model, but still:


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## MaX PL (Apr 10, 2006)

looks like a jetta from the side due to the wheels making it look very base sedan average.


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## tagsvags (Nov 25, 2005)

:thumbup::thumbup:I like it! Also looks like it has cloth seats,I want. Not a fan of the slippery leather but if it's part of the base A3 secan in North America so be it. And no sun/moon roof :thumbup:.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Much better than some of the other base car shots I've seen. Yeah, it looks very basic, but it is. It also looks pretty damn large, but I blame that on the color.

It's interesting that it has the "blade" style side skirts on it, though. I don't then, I've noticed those in photos before. Also, I hope the headlamp is indicative of our US market side markers being in the headlamp rather than getting tacked onto the bumper in semi-hideous fashion. I see a large spot down the side of the lamp unit that should accept the side marker very well. I think that's the way it's done on the A4, at least.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Dan Halen said:


> Much better than some of the other base car shots I've seen. Yeah, it looks very basic, but it is. It also looks pretty damn large, but I blame that on the color.
> 
> It's interesting that it has the "blade" style side skirts on it, though. I don't then, I've noticed those in photos before. Also, I hope the headlamp is indicative of our US market side markers being in the headlamp rather than getting tacked onto the bumper in semi-hideous fashion. I see a large spot down the side of the lamp unit that should accept the side marker very well. I think that's the way it's done on the A4, at least.



I wonder if the "blade" side skirt is now standard on the non-SLine car..........hmm....


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

caliatenza said:


> Hopefully with the MQB platform it won't be $3k..either way it's worth it though.. Along with B&O audio. Both are must have to me..


you mean, hopefully with the MQB platform, the car should be much cheaper to reflect the much lower mfg cost of the car. So far, I don't see any cost savings passed to the buyers.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

LWNY said:


> you mean, hopefully with the MQB platform, the car should be much cheaper to reflect the much lower mfg cost of the car. So far, I don't see any cost savings passed to the buyers.


well yeah but Audi is still a premium brand, they have to maintain a somewhat higher price level no matter what. I think the cost savings is the high level of standard equipment; i mean leather, xenons, pano sunroof, DCT transmission, Audi MMI with bluetooth all standard for a starting price ever so slightly cheaper than the CLA, thats pretty good to me. To equip the CLA like that, you are look at a 36-37k car.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

MaX PL said:


> comedy.
> you think anyone with an interest in a RS3 will want anyone of those boats?
> you think anyone with an interest in a RS3 wants to be seen a Corvette, the plumbers sports car, which for most, is in no way a practical daily driver?
> and faster? maybe the corvette will be faster than a RS3, but not those nascar wagons and the bmw.
> ...


no, I think that anyone who wants a tuner style widebody kit on a subcompact car is a vortex basement dweller, and you think it too, you're just not admitting it.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

FractureCritical said:


> no, I think that anyone who wants a tuner style widebody kit on a subcompact car is a vortex basement dweller, and you think it too, you're just not admitting it.


First of all, I don't think anyone would consider an Audi RS3 a "subcompact". You seem to think that the bigger the car, the better "status" it holds or something. Why don't you call a Porche 911 a subcompact too while you're at it. 

No one is talking about a tacked on widebody kit, this would come designed that way from the factory and this is one of the benefits the MQB platform allows.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

FractureCritical said:


> no, I think that anyone who wants a tuner style widebody kit on a subcompact car is a vortex basement dweller, and you think it too, you're just not admitting it.


Now you're just being obtuse for the sake of it. :facepalm:

When has Audi ever put a "tuner style widebody kit" on an RS car? I expect to see tacked-on wheel arches that don't match the car's body color and tacked on skirts that don't flow with the design of the car. Let's see it.


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## mookieblaylock (Sep 25, 2005)

FractureCritical said:


> comedy.
> $60k gets you a new corvette, a Chevy SS, a CTS


thing is if i got one of those i would need some of these and nylon shirts and take up cigars:










rs3 better for snowboarding


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

Mr. Rabboto, do you know if there will be standard smart key (push button start)?

B.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

found this video I do not think has been posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CvkhQjN5Ko

Interesting to note is the LED DRL are used as directionals + directionals integrated within the headlight housing, seems a bit strange to have both going on.

B.


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## mike3141 (Feb 16, 1999)

The LEDs look a bit spastic.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

BrutusA3 said:


> found this video I do not think has been posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CvkhQjN5Ko
> 
> Interesting to note is the LED DRL are used as directionals + directionals integrated within the headlight housing, seems a bit strange to have both going on.
> 
> B.


That's an artifact due to the way LEDs behave on video. My Jetta LED tail lights do the same in videos.

What is odd is that the LED hook is doing anything at all with the turn signal on, but I suspect that the wiring is the same as in the full LED cars and that they're accounting for the filament-bulb turn signal over the CANBUS or LINBUS or whatever the network is in this car. I'd be willing to bet you'd see no such thing with the bare eye in person. However, if the electrical schematic is what I think it is, the artifact you're seeing is the LED hook receiving a reduced voltage that can be seen in video recordings of certain frame rates but not with the naked eye. Or at least I hope that's what it is. I hope we're not in for the strobe-effect LEDs the early-2000s Cadillacs had for tail lamps. I figure Audi is long past that, though.

The xenon cars seem to have the separate turn signal, while the full-LED units should have the much more "trick" dual-color LED hooks. One of my first planned changes is to set the LED hook to not completely shut off the running light with the turn signal. On current dual-color LED Audis, the running light will power down while the turn signal is on, so you have yellow-off-yellow-off going on one side while you have solid white on the other. I want the white to stay on and alternate with the yellow when the turn signal is active.


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## mike3141 (Feb 16, 1999)

BrutusA3 said:


> Mr. Rabboto, do you know if there will be standard smart key (push button start)?
> 
> B.


I don't think there's been a picture of the interior of an actual U.S. A3. The Euro A3 galleries (U.K. and otherwise) show a start/stop button to the left of the gear selector.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Yeah, I really don't want a standard flip key, but any image I've seen of the A3 with the key on the console shows the standard flip key, even with the START-STOP button visible in the photo. I wish I could recall where I'd seen such a photo.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> That's an artifact due to the way LEDs behave on video. My Jetta LED tail lights do the same in videos.
> 
> What is odd is that the LED hook is doing anything at all with the turn signal on, but I suspect that the wiring is the same as in the full LED cars and that they're accounting for the filament-bulb turn signal over the CANBUS or LINBUS or whatever the network is in this car. I'd be willing to bet you'd see no such thing with the bare eye in person. However, if the electrical schematic is what I think it is, the artifact you're seeing is the LED hook receiving a reduced voltage that can be seen in video recordings of certain frame rates but not with the naked eye. Or at least I hope that's what it is. I hope we're not in for the strobe-effect LEDs the early-2000s Cadillacs had for tail lamps. I figure Audi is long past that, though.
> 
> The xenon cars seem to have the separate turn signal, while the full-LED units should have the much more "trick" dual-color LED hooks. One of my first planned changes is to set the LED hook to not completely shut off the running light with the turn signal. On current dual-color LED Audis, the running light will power down while the turn signal is on, so you have yellow-off-yellow-off going on one side while you have solid white on the other. I want the white to stay on and alternate with the yellow when the turn signal is active.


What you are describing are called "switchback" LEDs. They alternate between white and amber with the blink.

The strobe effect you see in the video is due to the video capture rate versus the LED dimming during the switchback. LED dimming is accomplished by voltage and strobe variation, so you end up with some pretty flashy interference in video. Not detectable at all in person.

In the USA, Audi's DRLs are programmed to "wink" when the signal is activated (as stupid as the reasoning is behind that). This is easily overcome with a small VCDS code change.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Yeah, my LED tails are red-amber switchback. I'm a lighting geek, so it's really cool to me. The average person can't find a solitary f*** to give, I imagine. :laugh:


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## mike3141 (Feb 16, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> Yeah, I really don't want a standard flip key, but any image I've seen of the A3 with the key on the console shows the standard flip key, even with the START-STOP button visible in the photo. I wish I could recall where I'd seen such a photo.


I remember seeing that picture too. However the pictures of the Audi Advanced key look like the standard switchblade fob--it just lacks the switchblade.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

BrutusA3 said:


> Mr. Rabboto, do you know if there will be standard smart key (push button start)?
> 
> B.


from the video that was just posted, its not standard in Europe for sure, but hopefully we get it here; seriously one less thing to pay for..but its included anyways in the premium plus or prestige trim.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

just spoke with a salesgirl again; she said the A3 is on track for an early spring release, with the S3 being summer. Pretty much confirms what Mr. Robato said earlier in the thread. Of course she had no packaging or pricing info yet...


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## v6er (Dec 18, 2000)

caliatenza said:


> from the video that was just posted, its not standard in Europe for sure, but hopefully we get it here; seriously one less thing to pay for..but its included anyways in the premium plus or prestige trim.


Id rather not have the advance key option as standard. While its convenient its not fool proof and thieves have already found a way around it, and I've heard plenty of stories of folks having issues with it. Our q5 has the key fob without the blade and no advance key. Just push the fob into the slot on the dash and away you go.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

mike3141 said:


> I remember seeing that picture too. However the pictures of the Audi Advanced key look like the standard switchblade fob--it just lacks the switchblade.


Isn't this the advanced key? The switchblade doesn't look like this- at least not the ones I've seen.

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/uploads/Audi_News/057__scaled_600_004.jpg

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Advance key cars and regular cars all use the same kind of key, the one Dan posted above. All the cars we drove had advance key from the 1.8's to the S3, not sure if it will be standard or not.

Actually, now that I think about it, I never had an A3 key in my hand. We drove S4's and A5 sport backs as well. I actually think the one A3 key I did see was slightly different than the current advance key.

To the OP, see dealers aren't holding back, hahaha. Seriously, at the time I thought I would remember it all. Clearly that's not the case, I should have taken more notes.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

v6er said:


> Id rather not have the advance key option as standard. While its convenient its not fool proof and thieves have already found a way around it, and I've heard plenty of stories of folks having issues with it. Our q5 has the key fob without the blade and no advance key. Just push the fob into the slot on the dash and away you go.


how do thieves get around the advanced key system?


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> Advance key cars and regular cars all use the same kind of key, the one Dan posted above. All the cars we drove had advance key from the 1.8's to the S3, not sure if it will be standard or not.
> 
> Actually, now that I think about it, I never had an A3 key in my hand. We drove S4's and A5 sport backs as well. I actually think the one A3 key I did see was slightly different than the current advance key.
> 
> To the OP, see dealers aren't holding back, hahaha. Seriously, at the time I thought I would remember it all. Clearly that's not the case, I should have taken more notes.


My dad's C250 has KEYLESS-GO, which is Benz's version of push button start and keyless entry. I found it pretty convienent actually, but if thieves can get around it, then maybe its not such a good thing to have. Getting back to other issues, is Audi going to be doing similar packaging on the A3 (Premium Plus, Prestige, etc) as they do with their other cars?


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## v6er (Dec 18, 2000)

caliatenza said:


> how do thieves get around the advanced key system?


That's the thing - the 'good guys' haven't figured it out yet. Saw a documentary on a news program a while back where thieves were stealing vehicles without the keys and without physically breaking into them. The police were stumped until they caught some video of thieves in action on security camera footage. They still cant figure out how they do it though. I'll see if i can find it. 

Although thieves are the least of my concern. I've read of complaints of doors unlocking and vehicles starting when the keys are over fifty feet away. Or the system stops recognizing the keys all together. Just not worth it IMHO. The wife on the other hand would love not having to dig in her purse every time


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

v6er said:


> That's the thing - the 'good guys' haven't figured it out yet. Saw a documentary on a news program a while back where thieves were stealing vehicles without the keys and without physically breaking into them. The police were stumped until they caught some video of thieves in action on security camera footage. They still cant figure out how they do it though. I'll see if i can find it.
> 
> Although thieves are the least of my concern. I've read of complaints of doors unlocking and vehicles starting when the keys are over fifty feet away. Or the system stops recognizing the keys all together. Just not worth it IMHO. The wife on the other hand would love not having to dig in her purse every time


We have a key less system on our Durango. My wife loves not having to dig for a key. The system on the Durango doesn't even require a button push on the handle to open the door. It senses a hand behind the handle and unlocks. The handle button is for locking only. Great design and well implemented. I'm hopeful the Audi system is similar.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

LWNY said:


> you mean, hopefully with the MQB platform, the car should be much cheaper to reflect the much lower mfg cost of the car. So far, I don't see any cost savings passed to the buyers.


I agree but just because their cost cost to build something is lower doesn't mean it makes sense to sell it for less. It gives them the ability to either cut the selling price or make more profit per vehicle.


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## dogbolter (Feb 28, 2010)

davewg said:


> We have a key less system on our Durango. My wife loves not having to dig for a key. The system on the Durango doesn't even require a button push on the handle to open the door. It senses a hand behind the handle and unlocks. The handle button is for locking only. Great design and well implemented. I'm hopeful the Audi system is similar.


Ditto our GTI


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## mike3141 (Feb 16, 1999)

davewg said:


> I'm hopeful the Audi system is similar.


Video of U.K. A3 with Advanced key demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Dk9iMG5Co


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Yeah, that's the switchblade key I was talking about. I don't want that; I want the one I posted last night. Maybe they were in the process of phasing the blade out when they started A3 production, or maybe we're just going to get the more advanced key across the board, while the blade will be left to other countries. Based on what Mr. Rabboto has said, it sounds like we may just bypass the switchblade altogether.


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## 02GOLFGTI1.8T (Feb 13, 2002)

Dan I might end up going to LA for the auto show, when are you going to be there? Might be fun to see if we can get a fourtitude get together thing going


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I fly in on the 20th and will be in the area until the 24th. Not sure yet which day(s) I'll be at the show; hoping to make something happen for the 21st, but that's a controlled-access day. The 22nd is probably the most likely day at this point as I'd rather not fight the Saturday morning hoards of people.


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## v6er (Dec 18, 2000)

Dan Halen said:


> I fly in on the 20th and will be in the area until the 24th. Not sure yet which day(s) I'll be at the show; hoping to make something happen for the 21st, but that's a controlled-access day. The 22nd is probably the most likely day at this point as I'd rather not fight the Saturday morning hoards of people.


I'll be in Vegas that weekend with the wifey and some friends. Tempted to grab a flight out to LA while I'm in LV and see the A3 in the flesh. The Spierment Rhino can wait :laugh:


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Make it happen!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Obviously in Europe the car is essentially an econo car, we saw them with 1.4's, cloth manual seats and roll up windows. The US version is optioned more in line with the luxury features that the larger Audis are known for., total different mindset really. I've got some pics to post tomorrow.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> Obviously in Europe the car is essentially an econo car, we saw them with 1.4's, cloth manual seats and roll up windows. The US version is optioned more in line with the luxury features that the larger Audis are known for., total different mindset really. I've got some pics to post tomorrow.


That's interesting because I haven't seen _any_ A3 spec with manual windows - if that's what you're referring to.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> Obviously in Europe the car is essentially an econo car, we saw them with 1.4's, cloth manual seats and roll up windows. The US version is optioned more in line with the luxury features that the larger Audis are known for., total different mindset really. I've got some pics to post tomorrow.


Tease.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

I know right, hahaha. As promised, this was sitting inside the hotel at thefront desk when we arrived...

























This is a giant wrap when you step out of Munich airport...









S3 Sedan









































Inside the training center

















A3 gtron

















On the Autobahn...

























Audi Exclusive A3...


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## tagsvags (Nov 25, 2005)

Rabbato looks good and thanks for posting the photos. What do you think the chances of the g-tron comming to NA? Audi says not until we can provide GREEN methane!


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I do wonder why they got away from the bottom-hinged accelerator pedal, though. That's going to bug me. I'll get used to it, sure, but it's going to bug me.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

The gtron won't be arriving anytime soon, there's just not enough infastructure of fueling stations to support it. Pretty cool though!

I was in another meeting yesterday that confirmed order guide in January, production in March, cars start arriving in April. S3 and Cab late summer.


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## tclky (Aug 22, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> I do wonder why they got away from the bottom-hinged accelerator pedal, though. That's going to bug me. I'll get used to it, sure, but it's going to bug me.


That will probably bother me as well at first. It's not deal breaker for me though.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Rubber pedals on the S3? :sly:


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Nice catch, lol. It should be mentioned that those are A3's made to look like S3's, S3 sedans haven't even started production yet. I would suspect we should see some sort of aluminum pedal set.


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## blum3416 (Jul 21, 2013)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> The gtron won't be arriving anytime soon, there's just not enough infastructure of fueling stations to support it. Pretty cool though!
> 
> I was in another meeting yesterday that confirmed order guide in January, production in March, cars start arriving in April. S3 and Cab late summer.


What do you mean by late summer for the S3? Are we looking at June or July? Looking at either this or the S4 if it is delayed or doesn't come out in a reasonable time frame.


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## Pretarion (Jun 13, 2003)

Can you tell me why the Mercedes CLA is in the atrium with the A3/S3? It is in the 10th picture.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Yes, because we did a side-by-side comparison of them with the A3 including driving them both on the Autobahn. The result, there is no comparison. The CLA feels like a dodge, the A3 feels like an Audi.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> The gtron won't be arriving anytime soon, there's just not enough infastructure of fueling stations to support it. Pretty cool though!
> 
> I was in another meeting yesterday that confirmed order guide in January, production in March, cars start arriving in April. S3 and Cab late summer.


Audi broke ground on a g-tron plant in New Mexico earlier this year. It's definitely in the works - but timeline is unknown.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> Yes, because we did a side-by-side comparison of them with the A3 including driving them both on the Autobahn. The result, there is no comparison. The CLA feels like a dodge, the A3 feels like an Audi.


Was there any inside anxiety that Audi appears to be "missing the boat" when it comes to sales while they watch MB CLAs fly off the dealer lots the past few weeks?

And any mention of a manual at all? I always wonder what Audi thinks to itself when, for example, they debuted the A3 on their facebook page the far and away most "thumbed-up" number one comment on ALL of their posts/photos were to the effect of "no manual = no buy".


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Not at all, they spent a lot of money developing this car, it's intended to be the best car in it's class and it is. The CLA sales are encouraging if anything. I suspect we'll be taking a lot of those heaps in on trade once the A3 debuts.

No Manual, all S-tronic. Who knows, maybe the RS3? New cars are so disconnected from the road anyway, I really don't see the appeal in a car like this. At some point people are going to have to let go, just like we let go of wood chassis and stone wheels.


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## Canthoney (Aug 5, 2012)

I just want to know rear leg room lol.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> I was in another meeting yesterday that confirmed order guide in January, production in March, cars start arriving in April. S3 and Cab late summer.


So there really isn't any effort to move up the launch. Travis has mentioned some exceedingly long wait times for sedan orders in Europe, and without any other real detail about those situations, they were sort of taken to mean that Gy�ör has had issues keeping up with demand. Maybe they are orders waiting on some delayed-intro equipment. Maybe they are Exclusive orders. Maybe this or maybe that.

Hopefully the protracted wait time for us is an effort to ensure relatively unfettered access to inventory once it starts rolling in. I'll be more than a little miffed if I place an order for an Exclusive S3 in March (rough guess) and end up with a January 2015 delivery.



blum3416 said:


> What do you mean by late summer for the S3? Are we looking at June or July? Looking at either this or the S4 if it is delayed or doesn't come out in a reasonable time frame.


September is still summer in Memphis, so I guess I'm just screwed. :laugh:



Travis Grundke said:


> Audi broke ground on a g-tron plant in *New Mexico* earlier this year. It's definitely in the works - but timeline is unknown.


Where?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> Not at all, they spent a lot of money developing this car, it's intended to be the best car in it's class and it is. The CLA sales are encouraging if anything. I suspect we'll be taking a lot of those *heaps* in on trade once the A3 debuts.



I'm glad you're confident in Audi's product, but... :laugh:

I don't care for the car myself, but I don't particularly think it's a heap.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

Thanks for the pics. I am not normally a red sedan car guy, only for Ferraris, those I believe must be red. But I must say that red looks really nice.

So I assume you test drove only the 1.8T FWD? which is the same one we are getting.

Did they state anymore details about the standard features on the car besides what was in the press release?

B.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> No Manual, all S-tronic. Who knows, maybe the RS3? New cars are so disconnected from the road anyway, I really don't see the appeal in a car like this. At some point people are going to have to let go, just like we let go of wood chassis and stone wheels.


Take that to its logical conclusion and we wont be _driving _cars at all.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

I think it's a *heap*, here's why...

• SINGLE-STITCHED vinyl seats with neon yellow screen printed cheap alcantara inserts ala pep boys seat covers

• Nav screen that looks like some one screwed a 5 year old Garmin onto their dash, display sucks as well.

• The bumpers were extended to make the car longer, the end result is that they flap like a fiberglass honda body kit when going over rough roads or bumps

• A column mounted gear selecter that feels like it will snap off if you look at at wrong. Not to mention a push button on the end to put it in park, seems like devolution.

• Their new attempt at a DSG gearbox is super clunky, quirky and an all-around POS, they have work to do.

• Super small trunk opening

• Super small rear seat entry and roof height

If the quality were on par with the aesthetics, it would be a good car. I'd give the aesthetics a 7-8, i'd give the driving experience a 3. I literally couldn't wait to get out of it.

Lastly, even though they priced starting at $29,900 same as the A3, to get one with the same base options as an A3, you'd pay more like $37k.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> Not at all, they spent a lot of money developing this car, it's intended to be the best car in it's class and it is. The CLA sales are encouraging if anything. I suspect we'll be taking a lot of those heaps in on trade once the A3 debuts.


It's like being in the Audi dealership without leaving my house.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

See thread title.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

dmorrow said:


> It's like being in the Audi dealership without leaving my house.


LOL!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## brennok (Jun 5, 2007)

Not a fan of the wheels on the A3 in the pics. I think I like the G-tron wheels better, but they aren't great.


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## brennok (Jun 5, 2007)

Not a fan of the wheels on the A3 in the pics. I think I like the G-tron wheels better, but they aren't great.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> I think it's a *heap*, here's why...
> 
> • SINGLE-STITCHED vinyl seats with neon yellow screen printed cheap alcantara inserts ala pep boys seat covers
> 
> ...


man Mercedes screwed it up . I was all hyped up about the car and then i read a lot of the reviews, seems like it left a lot to be desired. So late summer for the S3 huh; how are prices for S cars? Does Audi really price gouge on those models? I feel like the S3 would get really expensive really fast , like the S4. Hell if i cant wait till next summer, i would be perfectly happy with a 2.0T Quattro S-line.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> So there really isn't any effort to move up the launch. Travis has mentioned some exceedingly long wait times for sedan orders in Europe, and without any other real detail about those situations, they were sort of taken to mean that Gy�ör has had issues keeping up with demand. Maybe they are orders waiting on some delayed-intro equipment. Maybe they are Exclusive orders. Maybe this or maybe that.
> 
> Hopefully the protracted wait time for us is an effort to ensure relatively unfettered access to inventory once it starts rolling in. I'll be more than a little miffed if I place an order for an Exclusive S3 in March (rough guess) and end up with a January 2015 delivery.
> 
> ...


Hobbs, New Mexico: http://blog.cafefoundation.org/?p=7936


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Wow. How in the world did I miss that?!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> Yes, because we did a side-by-side comparison of them with the A3 including driving them both on the Autobahn. The result, there is no comparison. The CLA feels like a dodge, the A3 feels like an Audi.


I have to respectfully disagree on this point. While I've not driven the A3 yet, the CLA is anything but fleet-grade material.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> Not at all, they spent a lot of money developing this car, it's intended to be the best car in it's class and it is. The CLA sales are encouraging if anything. I suspect we'll be taking a lot of those heaps in on trade once the A3 debuts.
> 
> No Manual, all S-tronic. Who knows, maybe the RS3? New cars are so disconnected from the road anyway, I really don't see the appeal in a car like this. At some point people are going to have to let go, just like we let go of wood chassis and stone wheels.


The CLA is nowhere as cheap in the flesh as it appears in printed material. For this class, it is very competitive. No doubt the A3 will be excellent, but I would caution against throwing the CLA into the dustbin at the start of the race. With the 2-series joining the stage at about the same time as the A3 there is going to be a *lot* of competition in this segment. Mercedes is targeting ~30,000 CLAs annually and another 30,000 GLAs once that arrives on the scene. The big question is what the ultimate size of this market will be: will it be 60,000, 100,000 or 150,000 or more?

As for manual on the RS3: considering that the Eurospec RS models have moved to s-tronic only, I suspect that there is virtually no chance of a 6MT configuration ever appearing.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> So there really isn't any effort to move up the launch. Travis has mentioned some exceedingly long wait times for sedan orders in Europe, and without any other real detail about those situations, they were sort of taken to mean that Gy�ör has had issues keeping up with demand. Maybe they are orders waiting on some delayed-intro equipment. Maybe they are Exclusive orders. Maybe this or maybe that.
> 
> Hopefully the protracted wait time for us is an effort to ensure relatively unfettered access to inventory once it starts rolling in. I'll be more than a little miffed if I place an order for an Exclusive S3 in March (rough guess) and end up with a January 2015 delivery.
> 
> September is still summer in Memphis, so I guess I'm just screwed. :laugh:


Wait times are getting worse across the pond for the A3. There are some serious capacity limits at the moment and judging by some of the trade publications it looks like the problem is specifically with a lot of suppliers who are unable to keep up with production demands. Remember - the auto market cratered by **50%** in 2008-2009 and that destroyed a lot of auto suppliers more than it did a lot of brand assembly plants (see pic at bottom). One of the biggest concerns if you ask any product manager is getting good quality out of the suppliers as a result. When you have your OEM providers working three shifts, 7 days per week with almost no downtime in order to hit targets (lest you have your contract pulled), things slip by, mistakes are made and quality suffers. Just ask Ford about that, vis a vis the new Fusion and MKZ launches. 

My guess is that Audi, in particular due to the insanely prickly nature of US consumers demands, is moving very cautiously to ensure the vehicles that make it across the pond here are as defect-free as possible. This launch is exceptionally important because as Volkswagen of America has demonstrated - once you piss off a generation of car buyers it's exceptionally difficult and expensive to win them back. Conversely, do it right and you gain loyal followers for decades.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Rabboto -

At the risk of sounding like I'm shilling for Mercedes, I think you may be overplaying some of the Merc's issues. Putting it into context with the market it is in and the consumers it is looking to attract, they put out a good product. I don't think it's fantastic or superlative in any sense, but it is solid in the same way that I appreciate a Honda or an Acura: it gets the job done and will sell well to whom it is marketed. 

1. Single-stitched seats are a non-issue for 99.9% of the market. In fact, the CLAs I drove had what I found to be *excellent* seats, far better than the seats in a base A4 and far better than the 'sport seats' in my current 8P A3 (IMO - the worst seats I've ever had in a car);

2. The nav screen is my biggest gripe about the interior - it does look tacked on, but in person it is nowhere near as bad looking as in photos. I've said this elsewhere: not good, but not as horrific as I thought it would look. 

3. Interior materials: doors are solid, door pulls are solid. HVAC controls have a cheap feel - but then again, hop into a C-Class or even an E-Class and they're really not much better. Seems to be a Mercedes trait. Ditto for the gear selector - no better, no worse than the other Mercs, but not my favorite design implement either.

4. I purposely drove the CLA here in Cleveland over the worst roads we could find around Mercedes of Bedford (not too difficult in NE Ohio, frankly....). The body was remarkably well controlled but the ride was overly firm and harsh on par with my A3. That would probably be my biggest complaint about the car - I did expect better road compliance. Then again, maybe I'm just getting older. I did not, however, hear one single squeak, rattle or problem with a body panel/body kit. 

5. The Mercedes dual-clutch transmission lacks the polish of the Audi/VW unit but I didn't find it to be "bad". I'm biased anyhow since I'm a manual transmission luddite anyhow.

6. Rear seating was not as bad as I expected, but the door entry is indeed small. Same with the trunk. I'm 5'9" and found the rear seat acceptable. Anyone taller than me would probably feel cramped. That's the tradeoff they made for form over function.

I'm not disagreeing that the A3 will really up the game against Mercedes. Audi has much better economies of scale and has been able to put a lot more tangible money into the car. With all that said, I still find the CLA to be a very compelling product that can definitely stand on its own merits. While I walked in expecting "a heap", as you would say, I walked out, twice, much more impressed than I thought I would be. 

Would I ever buy a CLA? Absolutely not, it holds no appeal to me over an A4/A3/3-Series which I would take over the CLA any day of the week. But I know a lot of Mercedes buyers and premium buyers in general who love the car. 




Mr. Rabboto said:


> I think it's a *heap*, here's why...
> 
> • SINGLE-STITCHED vinyl seats with neon yellow screen printed cheap alcantara inserts ala pep boys seat covers
> 
> ...


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> Wow. How in the world did I miss that?!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Better question is: why the hell do *I* know something so esoteric!


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> Wait times are getting worse across the pond for the A3. There are some serious capacity limits at the moment and judging by some of the trade publications it looks like the problem is specifically with a lot of suppliers who are unable to keep up with production demands. Remember - the auto market cratered by **50%** in 2008-2009 and that destroyed a lot of auto suppliers more than it did a lot of brand assembly plants (see pic at bottom). One of the biggest concerns if you ask any product manager is getting good quality out of the suppliers as a result. When you have your OEM providers working three shifts, 7 days per week with almost no downtime in order to hit targets (lest you have your contract pulled), things slip by, mistakes are made and quality suffers. Just ask Ford about that, vis a vis the new Fusion and MKZ launches.
> 
> My guess is that Audi, in particular due to the insanely prickly nature of US consumers demands, is moving very cautiously to ensure the vehicles that make it across the pond here are as defect-free as possible. This launch is exceptionally important because as Volkswagen of America has demonstrated - once you piss off a generation of car buyers it's exceptionally difficult and expensive to win them back. Conversely, do it right and you gain loyal followers for decades.


You are, once again, the voice of reason. You're no fun. 



To expand on that a bit, I'm beyond okay with them withholding the the US cars as long as they are if it's going to ensure we don't get screwed during the release. I appreciate them holding ours back, even. BUT...

If we're waiting until August for the S3, and then they _still_ can't fill orders in a reasonable time? Inexcusable. This is a car developed for the Chinese and American markets, and the release to the US is this protracted? If it's for damn good reason, I can appreciate that. They better bring their A++ game, though, else they should have just released it concurrently with the European market and let us deal with back orders. 

What they may have effectively done is lost a few thousand dollars of Exclusive revenue from my purchase. While a custom color would be nice, a nearly year and a half wait for this car makes the additional wait for Exclusive queuing substantially less likely for me. I don't want it to be that way, but I'm quickly coming around to "I bet I will at least sort of like one of the factory colors." I'm even considering red, FFS.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

I'm just giving my opinions here, I really don't need anyone to justify the CLA for me. I spent a few hours with one and I think it's a piece of ****, end of story.

Travis is somewhat on target, Audi spent a ton of money developing this car and making sure they get it right, it is purposely being built to attract Gen Y/millenials to the brand and Audi is well aware of what this generation is all about. They know it will be many people's first experience with an Audi and they want it to be the best it can be.


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## tclky (Aug 22, 2012)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> ... Audi spent a ton of money developing this car and making sure they get it right, it is purposely being built to attract Gen Y/millenials to the brand and Audi is well aware of what this generation is all about. ....


Well they're also attracting a retiree. Never owned an Audi before but was tempted by the first generation A4. Went with an E36 M3 instead. Right now the new A3 seems to be the best match for what I'm looking for.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Awesome, I think you'll be quite pleased. I'm 46 and will have one as soon as they come out. With 20,000 units a year expected, and 34 consecutive months of record sales in the US, I think it's safe to say Audi has a pretty good understanding of the US market and they firmly believe this car will live up to everyones expectations.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

I thought we had essentially determined Audi exclusive paint in the USA was not going to be an option on the A3/S3


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Not sure how "we" would have determined that, we haven't heard anything like that at the dealership nor at training and I posted the exclusive grey interior in an A3 and we also saw the red and black silk nappa in the S3.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Dealers, including mine, were told by AoA that audi exclusive paint options were not available for volume models like A4 and the previous A3. They claimed it was hinted to them that the same would be true on the A3/S3 as they fall well under the price levels that allowed exclusive paint previous to the MQB A3 release.

I am not sure how seeing Euro-spec A3 models with all those "exclusive" features on display in Germany translates to what will be available here. Did they mention anything about the exclusive program being expanded to include the US? Or, exclusive paint being an option on a base price sub-$30k car?


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Well they didn't tell our dealership that and we've ordered quite a few exclusive S4's and S5's although I don't recall an A4, more based on price I suspect. Not to mention the 2014 A4 has a few bi-color exclusive interiors available very similar to the one I posted in the A3 so I don't think you can compare this car and their strategy to the old one. Of course, I could be wrong but it's not a huge leap that may do things differently with this car, especially considering the discriminating eye of the target market.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> Awesome, I think you'll be quite pleased. I'm 46 and will have one as soon as they come out. With 20,000 units a year expected, and 34 consecutive months of record sales in the US, I think it's safe to say Audi has a pretty good understanding of the US market and they firmly believe this car will live up to everyones expectations.


another good thing is that Audi has really improved in reliability. Hell Consumer Reports has them at number 4 now!! Mercedes is at 9 .


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Agreed and to add to that point, they know the impact that social media can have on a brand and being that they are going after that demographic specifically with this car, it's gotta be even better.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> Not at all, they spent a lot of money developing this car, it's intended to be the best car in it's class and it is. The CLA sales are encouraging if anything. I suspect we'll be taking a lot of those heaps in on trade once the A3 debuts.


What you are smoking, I want some of.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> I think it's safe to say Audi has a pretty good understanding of the US market and they firmly believe this car will live up to everyones expectations.


Except for the inexcusable fact you are more than a year late with the US launch and both BMW and MB will be eating your lunch in the meantime.

World's 2nd largest automarket (behind China) and of the big 3 Germans you will be last in the segment.

P.S. Thanks for all the advance info, I do appreciate it.


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## tagsvags (Nov 25, 2005)

Saving the best for last and worth the wait.


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## dogbolter (Feb 28, 2010)

tagsvags said:


> Saving the best for last and worth the wait.


It my well be the best, but they're missing out on profit, money that is flowing into their competitors coffers.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Waterfan said:


> Except for the inexcusable fact you are more than a year late with the US launch and both BMW and MB will be eating your lunch in the meantime.
> 
> World's 2nd largest automarket (behind China) and of the big 3 Germans you will be last in the segment.
> 
> P.S. Thanks for all the advance info, I do appreciate it.



They wanted to make sure they built the best car in the segment.

The 1 Series has already been shelved for 2014.

The US is only 10% of Audi's Worldwide sales.

You're welcome.


Coming from a MK1, the CLA may be a step up, but just barely.:laugh:


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> They wanted to make sure they built the best car in the segment.


If it's the best car, why are they packing it full of features and selling it at a lower starting price than CLA? (HINT: they know they are late and have to beat CLA on packaging AND pricing to catch up)



Mr. Rabboto said:


> The 1 Series has already been shelved for 2014.


OK, I did not realize that.



Mr. Rabboto said:


> The US is only 10% of Audi's Worldwide sales.


Which means if they were serious about a SERIOUSLY large market they could almost double sales.



Mr. Rabboto said:


> You're welcome.


There's your free corporate strategy lesson, you're welcome.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Unlike the VW brand (Phaeton), Audi knows that it is the underdog compared to MB and BMW. They do not have the same pricing power and as a result must compensate with higher content/value. Nothing wrong with that. Credit is due to Audi of America for fully understanding their position in the order of things and orienting themselves accordingly.


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## BClear (Jun 18, 2010)

Dan Halen said:


> I do wonder why they got away from the bottom-hinged accelerator pedal, though. That's going to bug me. I'll get used to it, sure, but it's going to bug me.


I think I remember reading the top mounted pedal was related to MQB. They made the same move on the MKVII Golf.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Travis Grundke said:


> Unlike the VW brand (Phaeton), Audi knows that it is the underdog compared to MB and BMW. They do not have the same pricing power and as a result must compensate with higher content/value. Nothing wrong with that. Credit is due to Audi of America for fully understanding their position in the order of things and orienting themselves accordingly.


Well stated. And part of what draws me to Audi is that underdog status.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Waterfan said:


> If it's the best car, why are they packing it full of features and selling it at a lower starting price than CLA? (HINT: they know they are late and have to beat CLA on packaging AND pricing to catch up)
> 
> OK, I did not realize that.
> 
> ...



Same price point, more features, same thing with the rest of the model lineup. Sorry, this is nothing new.

If you think Audi can sell 160k+ A3's in the US you're delusional.

34 months of record sales without a model in the segment for the past year, I don't think they need your "strategy."

At the end of the day, the car will speak for itself. I got to spend 3 days with them and after owning over 30 VAG cars, I think it's one of the best ever. That's my opinion, time will tell how many people will agree with me.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

Travis Grundke said:


> Audi knows that it is the underdog compared to MB and BMW.


Is this a common perception among car buyers?

In my mind, Audi has always been up there with BMW in terms of desirability with MB close on their tails. I'm a relatively young guy and a newer car buyer, I'm not sure if that has anything to do with my perception.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

BClear said:


> I think I remember reading the top mounted pedal was related to MQB. They made the same move on the MKVII Golf.


Yeah, it's the same way on the Golf. I'm sure they had some reason, but... erg.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

DaLeadBull said:


> Is this a common perception among car buyers?
> 
> In my mind, Audi has always been up there with BMW in terms of desirability with MB close on their tails. I'm a relatively young guy and a newer car buyer, I'm not sure if that has anything to do with my perception.


I think it is. I would prefer to drive an Audi over a BMW by at least a small measure and an Audi over a MB by a nautical mile, and this perception is at least a small part of the reason why. I'm a fairly low-key presence type of person when it comes to material things. I like the best, but I don't need to be validated by my taste. The stigma attached to the roundel is more than I care to carry around. On the flip side, there's MB, whose product has just generally not appealed to me, historically, and still really doesn't today. At that point, it becomes a price proposition between MB and Audi. Considering I'm going to pay the same or more for the corresponding MB, the MB is a non-starter.

One may say that the Audi is the vehicle of choice for someone who doesn't care what others think about them, but it can also be the vehicle of choice for someone who cares somewhat about appearances and wants to keep those appearances decidedly lower-key.

... of course, as Audi tries to build their brand image, they're undoubtedly going to acquire some of the (to me) undesirable image associated with BMW.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

I like this description of the big 3...

Mercedes = Old Money, BMW = New Money, Audi = Smart Money.

Another stat as far as "strategies" go, two years ago Audi announced Strategy 2020 for the US, that was to sell 200k cars here by the year 2020. Audi now projects they will hit that number in 2016.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> *Mercedes = Old Money, BMW = New Money, Audi = Smart Money.*


That's pretty damn good. :laugh:


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> Same price point, more features, same thing with the rest of the model lineup. Sorry, this is nothing new.


I'll admit I am arguing semantics. You said "best car in the segment". To me, if it were truly "the best" and clearly superior it would also command premium pricing over competitors. Travis has stated why: Lack of pricing power from lower brand perception. Which is why they have to beat their competitors on value (and also because they are late to market). Will the A3 be a great car and a better VALUE over its competitors? All signs point to Yes  Competiton is indeed a wonderfull thing for consumers.



> If you think Audi can sell 160k+ A3's in the US you're delusional.


I assumed your "US is 10% of Audi sales" was for all of Audi. Which to me represents an inexcusable missed opportunity (meaning, why is the #1 automarket (by dollars) only a tiny percentage of Audi sales?*) Did you mean "10% of A3s sold globally will be sold in US"? China/Asia is a big market, I suppose a 10% unit volume for the US could make sense? Or did you mean something else entirely for that 10% statistic?



> 34 months of record sales without a model in the segment for the past year, I don't think they need your "strategy."


How can they beat sales records in the segment without a model in the segment to sell? Do you mean Audi are beating their internal unit sales records in the US as an overall brand in spite of not having a model in this key segment? I have no problem believing that, there is pent up and growing demand/respect for Audi products. Sure it's great to be part of a growing brand, but are those internal sales records even relevant? Shouldn't we compare ourselves to our competitors to see how well we are actually doing? My perception is Audi are continually and perpetually losing to both BMW and MB (at least on a unit share perspective) and therefore they are doing something horribly wrong at the strategic and/or tactical level.



> At the end of the day, the car will speak for itself. I got to spend 3 days with them and after owning over 30 VAG cars, I think it's one of the best ever. That's my opinion, time will tell how many people will agree with me.


My negativity regarding Audi strategy/propirities are inversely proportional to my positive excitement for the A3. (In other words, I am disappointed it has taken so long to get here and choose to blame it on Audi's strategy)

*An excerpt from this infographic helps further explain where I am coming from: "While China has become the world's largest automotive market in terms of sales volume, the U.S. market still leads the world in terms of total sales revenue."


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> I like this description of the big 3...
> 
> Mercedes = Old Money, BMW = New Money, Audi = Smart Money.


:beer::thumbup:


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> Another stat as far as "strategies" go, two years ago Audi announced Strategy 2020 for the US, that was to sell 200k cars here by the year 2020. Audi now projects they will hit that number in 2016.


Poor planning/forecasting or actual "sandbagging" of the target? (I keed, I keed :laugh (Out of curiousity, 200k cars represents what US Market Share % in this segment? <10% maybe?)


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

The US is only 10% of Audi's worldwide sales for ALL Models, not just the a3. I suspect by time they achieve 200k units in the US they will be close to 2 million units worldwide and so yes, that would be 10%.

Horribly wrong? Worldwide sales for 2013 - 1. BMW 2. Audi 3. Mercedes Benz - I guess it's perception vs. reality. We'll see what happens when the A3 comes out, which they are expecting big numbers from the US and China.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> Mercedes = Old Money, BMW = New Money, Audi = Smart Money.


This might be a description by Audiphiles, but from other's perspective, especially on a emotionally attached item, the same 3 groups could be rephrased as fat cats, lotto winners, and cheapskates.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Because an Audi is substantially cheaper than the other cars?


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

Sounds redundant.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> The US is only 10% of Audi's worldwide sales for ALL Models, not just the a3. I suspect by time they achieve 200k units in the US they will be close to 2 million units worldwide and so yes, that would be 10%.
> 
> Horribly wrong? Worldwide sales for 2013 - 1. BMW 2. Audi 3. Mercedes Benz - I guess it's perception vs. reality. We'll see what happens when the A3 comes out, which they are expecting big numbers from the US and China.


Thanks for clarifying. What is the US dollar share of Audi worldwide sales? And dollar share rank compared to BMW and MB?


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> Because an Audi is substantially cheaper than the other cars?


Except "cheaper" means "more value" to me and that's why it's "smart money"


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

Are we expected to get COD in the A3?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

BrutusA3 said:


> Are we expected to get COD in the A3?


Negatory, at least with this generation of engines.

http://fourtitude.com/news/Audi_New...nd-tech-already-available-three-audi-engines/


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## tclky (Aug 22, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> Negatory, at least with this generation of engines.
> 
> http://fourtitude.com/news/Audi_New...nd-tech-already-available-three-audi-engines/


Glad to hear that. Something about that approach to fuel economy bothers me. I don't know whether it's because of problems that early adopters had with it, the extra complexity, or how the temperature differences and lack of combustion in the unfired cylinders might affect deposit build up. One less thing to worry about now.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

tclky said:


> Glad to hear that. Something about that approach to fuel economy bothers me. I don't know whether it's because of problems that early adopters had with it, the extra complexity, or how the temperature differences and lack of combustion in the unfired cylinders might affect deposit build up. One less thing to worry about now.


That sounds exactly like the (well-founded) concerns with direct injection. I have a box of mostly spent walnut shells that confirms the existence of that issue in the DI motors. :laugh:

At least now they seem to be pushing dual injection to counter that. I think I recall seeing that the S3's motor will employ it, at least.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

^^^ That's correct. :thumbup:


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## blum3416 (Jul 21, 2013)

Has anyone tried or guarantee themselves a allocation at their local dealership to order the S3 once the order banks open? I've been in contact with a few dealers who are already making lists of potential customers. No one is really willing to discuss discounts at this moment since pricing isn't released. I was hoping that the ACNA 6% off MSRP discount would qualify for this model. Does anyone know if it will eventually when the car is released? Also, has anyone else discussed ordering the car or pricing with any dealers?


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

blum3416 said:


> Has anyone tried or guarantee themselves a allocation at their local dealership to order the S3 once the order banks open? I've been in contact with a few dealers who are already making lists of potential customers. No one is really willing to discuss discounts at this moment since pricing isn't released. I was hoping that the ACNA 6% off MSRP discount would qualify for this model. Does anyone know if it will eventually when the car is released? Also, has anyone else discussed ordering the car or pricing with any dealers?


Yes, but the bill of sale says 'TBD' under costs. Just threw a small deposit on it for paperwork reasons. On December 6th I hope to sit in an A3 at the very least for overall impressions (minus performance of course). Then I will decide on whether it's S3 or S4.

Should add, it doesn't mean really jack, just that you will maybe on the first boat of S3's.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I haven't, but I intend to do so soon. And no, I can't see any reason why the S3 shouldn't qualify for the ACNA discount. None of the other S cars are excluded.

My intention is to be at the dealership the day the order bank opens for the S3 to configure one of their allocated cars as my sold order. I guess it's not unfathomable to think there's someone else in this metro area of 1MM+ that would be interested in this car, but I somehow don't imagine that they've got people beating the doors down for the S3 already.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

All of that stuff is per dealership. We take deposits on cars that aren't available for ordering all the time, we have a list for RS7's that's bigger than our allocation. There's no point in discussing pricing until the order guides comes out. The more rare and in demand the model, the smaller/less likely the discount.


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