# Too low on coils



## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

I know what you fans of drop and tucked tires are thinking that there is no such thing. While I think it looks good on some cars, for me I’m looking for a less conspicuous drop. 

I installed a set of STs this weekend. I originally was looking at the Street Comforts and SHS coils but was told they did very little to increase the performance handling characteristics and my primary reason for the coils was performance and handling - appearance was secondary but still important. 

From my research the STs were the next best thing. At maximum height they were suppose to offer a less aggressive drop while giving me much improved handling. 

With that said the front drop looks good but the rear drop is a lower than I’d like by about .75". I'd like to get the rear high enough to remove any tire tuck and to make the drop less conspicuous. I remember reading somewhere about spacers but it’s also my understanding that they can be dangerous. Anyone used them? Any other suggestions on how to get rid of the tire tuck without going to a smaller tire size.


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## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

get longer springs?


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

tp. said:


> get longer springs?


 As simple as that sounds, I hadn't considered it. I'll email ST and see what they suggest.


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## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

i think if u wanted minimal drop shoudl have went with HR prenium or sport lower kit. the shox are lighter than OEm so u will get some better response


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## Pretarion (Jun 13, 2003)

I've been in the market for suspension for a while now. I researched a lot of spring/shock combos, but never really was interested in coilovers, mainly because of the price. I was told about the ST coils, that they are made by KW, but use galvanized steel on the ST's, where as the KW's use stainless steel. The construct is exactly the same. 
Our cars are naturally lower in the rear. To get a even drop from front to back, you will need to drop the front coils a bit lower than the rears. 
If you don't mind me asking, how much did you get the ST's for, and from what company.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Pretarion said:


> I've been in the market for suspension for a while now. I researched a lot of spring/shock combos, but never really was interested in coilovers, mainly because of the price. I was told about the ST coils, that they are made by KW, but use galvanized steel on the ST's, where as the KW's use stainless steel. The construct is exactly the same.
> Our cars are naturally lower in the rear. To get a even drop from front to back, you will need to drop the front coils a bit lower than the rears.
> If you don't mind me asking, how much did you get the ST's for, and from what company.


 
rawaudi hooked me up with a link. They were $750 shipped from this shop 

http://www.drivtechonline.com/ST_Suspension_Speedtech_Coilovers_Audi_A3_8P_p/st-audi-a3-90873.htm 


I dropped the fronts lower than the rears with a miniscule amount of rake. I just want to get rid of the tire tuck even though it is only very slight. 

I really like the ride quality of these a lot. It's not crazy stiff on normal streets - minute comfort difference from stock, significantly less body roll on corners and they deffinitely help keep too much weight from being redistributed from the front so overall the car is launching better from a dead stop and gripping better on acceleration. I'm going to keep them on my car for at least a couple weeks and see if I can come up with a solution for the height or I might feel differently about the tuck after I install my 19" wheels. There's a chance I might decide to sell them though so let me know if you are interested and I'll give you a good deal on a set of coils with only a couple hundred miles on them.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

tp. said:


> i think if u wanted minimal drop shoudl have went with HR prenium or sport lower kit. the shox are lighter than OEm so u will get some better response


 Those fall into the SHS and KW street comfort category and are more appearance oriented and less performance centric. I may have to eat some asthetic loss for the improved handling. The STs are inexpensive coils made by a good company and I know that at some point in the next year or two, I'm probably going to replace them for something that offers both height and dampening control but before dropping that kind of money I wanted to get a better feel for coilovers in general. 

Special thanks to zcspec for help with the install - I managed to make myself usefull only when I tipped the pizza guy.


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## rawaudi (May 15, 2010)

ceese said:


> rawaudi hooked me up with a link. They were $750 shipped from this shop


 
Thats Me! :wave: 

Ceese, did you think about getting Euro Sline springs? They will run you ~500ish but give you a lower drop than US Sline and still provide OE ride quality. 

A couple of us were looking at them but couldn't get a group buy going and I couldn't justify spending 500 when I can get coils for 700....


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## cldub (Jul 2, 2010)

rawaudi said:


> Thats Me! :wave:
> 
> Ceese, did you think about getting Euro Sline springs? They will run you ~500ish but give you a lower drop than US Sline and still provide OE ride quality.
> 
> A couple of us were looking at them but couldn't get a group buy going and I couldn't justify spending 500 when I can get coils for 700....


 I got my coils for $500 brand new!


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

ceese, the new c/o's were recently put on? if so, the coils have yet to settle and may droop a bit over the next few weeks. then, more rear tire tuck. 

i don't know much about coil spacers but i'm assuming the spacers are placed in the 'cup' (lack of the correct term) portion of the lower control arm. i'm not sure if you've looked in the the 'cup' but it's pretty deep. i'd figure the spacer would stay fairly secure inside this 'cup'. what would scare me is maxing out the height of the threaded perch. 

maybe someone with better knowledge of coil spacers can chime in.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

rawaudi said:


> Thats Me! :wave:
> 
> Ceese, did you think about getting Euro Sline springs? They will run you ~500ish but give you a lower drop than US Sline and still provide OE ride quality.
> 
> A couple of us were looking at them but couldn't get a group buy going and I couldn't justify spending 500 when I can get coils for 700....


 I did consider that route, but I wanted something that would increase the handling capabilities of the stock shocks - I think the STs while not super aggressive as coils go, give me significantly improved handling over what I would have gotten with the euro springs. 

I took it into Fine Tuning in Seattle today due to a bolt issue we had when installing the rear shock. Along with double checking the entire install, Chris suggested a custom machined spacer and said that it could be done with complete safety  He'll have a quote for me this afternoon. 

Overall, I think I can live with the current ride height as I'm really happy with the ride quality and handling - just a little higher in the rear would make it pefrect for me. I can't wait to get it out to the track to hammer on it.


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## rawaudi (May 15, 2010)

Just get some wire wheels. A nice set of 12 inch tires will make your car look higher!


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Like a set of BBS off a 4000. 










These would look tight but I'd have to go with smaller brakes too.


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## Pretarion (Jun 13, 2003)

ceese said:


> There's a chance I might decide to sell them though so let me know if you are interested and I'll give you a good deal on a set of coils with only a couple hundred miles on them.


 Thanks for the info. I would definitely be interested in them if you are going to sell. I am in the same situation as your, as far as using 19" wheels. 
Can you take a picture of what your car looks like right now?


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Pretarion said:


> Thanks for the info. I would definitely be interested in them if you are going to sell. I am in the same situation as your, as far as using 19" wheels.
> Can you take a picture of what your car looks like right now?


 This is them at the highest setting in the rear. The photo is flattened out so you can get a good idea. I'm going to have to see it when I put my 19s on - the are wider and taller so they should fill out the well a lot better.


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## Pretarion (Jun 13, 2003)

That's a great drop. Looks clean. Can't wait to see the wheels on it.


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## kgw (May 1, 2008)

KW will sell you a pair of spacers for $70-75. I am using the 30mm spacers (middle ones): no issues at all. 










Here's a previous thread on the issue: http://forums.fourtitude.com/showth...&p=77037624&highlight=kw+spacers#post77037624


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## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

Not the best pic but these are konis with stock wheels. I can't remember the height setting on the rear but it was definitely not at the highest.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Subaruski1 said:


> Not the best pic but these are konis with stock wheels. I can't remember the height setting on the rear but it was definitely not at the highest.


 That's exactly what I was looking for. The 30mm seems like the best approach so I can bring the threading down and not ride the extreme edge of the threads (currently down three threads so there is just one thread at the top). 

I got the same story from my mechanic as the thread about riding the extreme heigh of the shock but when we did the install there was a lot of room once the shock was compressed and I don't think 10mm will make any difference since they typically engineer in flex on these things. 

I found them at AMI for $38 a piece. 

I did get a chance to go for a drive tonight after I picked it up from the shop and wow - loving the ride. It really reduces the front end lift when I'm accelerating and it reduces the body roll by over 60%. I'm curious to see how well they handle at speed. 

Did you notice any handling difference after installing the spacers? 


Thanks for the heads up.


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## kgw (May 1, 2008)

No difference that I can tell. . .I installed them myself, fairly easy to do if you take out the single bolt that holds the lower control arm. I used a bottle jack under the control arm in able to raise it back up to insert the bolt.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

kgw said:


> No difference that I can tell. . .I installed them myself, fairly easy to do if you take out the single bolt that holds the lower control arm. I used a bottle jack under the control arm in able to raise it back up to insert the bolt.


 Cool, your car looks good. Are those 17s or 18s. Hard to tell in the picture. 


The thing that's always bugged me about extreme dropped cars and my current ride height is that it throws off the lines of the car. The wells are designed for a specific gap and when you lower it too much it throws off the gap because the verticle distance between the top of the wheel is a lot smaller than the horizontal gaps at the side of the tires. You don't get this with cars that such as many BMWs and Porsches because they are designed to be low. 

 

I couldn't find a better picture than this but I was looking for a good side shot of the RS3 where there is no wheel tuck and they minimize the horizontal gap with the design of the side skirts.


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## JaseZilla (Feb 20, 2012)

ceese said:


> This is them at the highest setting in the rear. The photo is flattened out so you can get a good idea. I'm going to have to see it when I put my 19s on - the are wider and taller so they should fill out the well a lot better.


 To me, that looks amazing. That is exactly how I want my car to look.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

ceese said:


> Cool, your car looks good. Are those 17s or 18s. Hard to tell in the picture.
> 
> 
> The thing that's always bugged me about extreme dropped cars and my current ride height is that it throws off the lines of the car. The wells are designed for a specific gap and when you lower it too much it throws off the gap because the verticle distance between the top of the wheel is a lot smaller than the horizontal gaps at the side of the tires. You don't get this with cars that such as many BMWs and Porsches because they are designed to be low.
> ...


 The RS3 has a redesigned front fender, looks like they widened it and dropped the wheel arch at the same time, since it was to be much lower than a stock A3. You can order the RS3 front fender if you are annoyed by the gap and you don't want a 1960's hot rod jacked up rear look.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

LWNY said:


> The RS3 has a redesigned front fender, looks like they widened it and dropped the wheel arch at the same time, since it was to be much lower than a stock A3. You can order the RS3 front fender if you are annoyed by the gap and you don't want a 1960's hot rod jacked up rear look.


 The Vortex body kit was designed with lowered cars in mind. It makes a huge difference with adjusting the lines of the car. Guess it's time to install the skirts in my basement. 

It's also not as low as my car


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## Dj Toobs (Jun 10, 2011)

*ST Coils*

I also have ST coils installed. I adjusted my rear like 3 times and yes i have gotten it high enough to clear my tires. I've driven in them for about 1 year and 25,000 miles and they are great! 

Are you sure you have adjusted them correctly? If you have adjusted the coils while the actual coil is still on your car, it wont adjust right. You have to take it off and spin it yourself by hand. That so call tool adjuster that come with it is a joke.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Dj Toobs said:


> I also have ST coils installed. I adjusted my rear like 3 times and yes i have gotten it high enough to clear my tires. I've driven in them for about 1 year and 25,000 miles and they are great!
> 
> Are you sure you have adjusted them correctly? If you have adjusted the coils while the actual coil is still on your car, it wont adjust right. You have to take it off and spin it yourself by hand. That so call tool adjuster that come with it is a joke.


 Yes they're installed correctly. I know what you are talking about - the top wheel of the spring spacer spins with the bottom when you turn it. The fender is pretty much in line with the top of my wheel. I'd be really happy with a half inch gap. The drop is starting to grow on me the more I look at it though.


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## newSWARTZ (May 10, 2003)

Lower it


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## Maitre Absolut (Aug 5, 2009)

with KW's i can pretty much go as high as i want in the rear 

you're not the first person to bring up this issue with ST's


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

Maitre Absolut said:


> with KW's i can pretty much go as high as i want in the rear
> 
> you're not the first person to bring up this issue with ST's


 I find that so odd since the ST's are supposed to be the same as KW V1's just coated instead of stainless. Which KW's are you running? I have my rear perches half way down and I am at 23.5" FTG.


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## kgw (May 1, 2008)

*h*

My wheels are 8x17, 43 et. I wanted to keep the unsprung weight down, and the RS 320's, Conti Extreme Contacts, and the TAR-OX brakes all help. 

Without the spacers, the rears were tucked up in the wheel wells; with the 43 et the wheels sit flush with the body, so with passengers or a loaded hatch the tires would rub on bumps or sweeping curves. With the spacers, all is good!


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

kgw said:


> My wheels are 8x17, 43 et. I wanted to keep the unsprung weight down, and the RS 320's, Conti Extreme Contacts, and the TAR-OX brakes all help.
> 
> Without the spacers, the rears were tucked up in the wheel wells; with the 43 et the wheels sit flush with the body, so with passengers or a loaded hatch the tires would rub on bumps or sweeping curves. With the spacers, all is good!


 I have that problem with the stock height on my winter wheels. 

Question, I was looking at the spacer pics you posted. How does it get installed does the top of the dial slide into it or does it sit below the dial and the dial slides down into it? Or is it threaded and does it replace the bottom of the dial? It's hard to tell from the picture.


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## kgw (May 1, 2008)

The spacers aren't threaded; what you do is drop the lower control arm to lower the spring enough to slide the spacer up and over the dial ring from the bottom. Here's some pics I just took: 



















That's the left rear spring, btw. Does that clarify it?


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## rawaudi (May 15, 2010)

Since were comparing coil heights. 

Me on Konis: 

I have 1 finger between fender and tire. Haven't measured ride height yet. Set to medium dampening and the ride is pretty stiff. Definitely not OEM comfort.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

kgw said:


> The spacers aren't threaded; what you do is drop the lower control arm to lower the spring enough to slide the spacer up and over the dial ring from the bottom. Here's some pics I just took:
> 
> That's the left rear spring, btw. Does that clarify it?


 Exactly what I wanted to know - thanks


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

rawaudi said:


> Since were comparing coil heights.
> 
> Me on Konis:
> 
> ...


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## rawaudi (May 15, 2010)

ceese said:


> Your's has got to be .5" to .75" higher than mine. Funny how that makes such a huge difference.


 I will measure this afternoon and get a closer picture. I may want moar loar.


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## GunKata (Apr 4, 2006)

ceese said:


> I installed a set of STs this weekend. I originally was looking at the Street Comforts and SHS coils but was told they did very little to increase the performance handling characteristics and my primary reason for the coils was performance and handling - appearance was secondary but still important.
> 
> From my research the STs were the next best thing. At maximum height they were suppose to offer a less aggressive drop while giving me much improved handling.


 
STs are basically a cheaper version of the KW V1s/ Street Comforts / SHS. You bought essentially the same thing.


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

GunKata said:


> STs are basically a cheaper version of the KW V1s/ Street Comforts / SHS. You bought essentially the same thing.


 That isn't entirely true. The ST's are the same as the KW V1s just coated instead of stainless steel, and they "only" have a 5 year warranty instead of the KW's lifetime, which does result in the ST's being less expensive. The Street Comforts and SHS are valved differently and are a more comfortable ride than the V1/ST. In any case, the ST is a great value for the performance you get and if you live in a part of the world where you don't frequently have a lot of salt on the roads, they are a pretty good option.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

TBomb said:


> That isn't entirely true. The ST's are the same as the KW V1s just coated instead of stainless steel, and they "only" have a 5 year warranty instead of the KW's lifetime, which does result in the ST's being less expensive. The Street Comforts and SHS are valved differently and are a more comfortable ride than the V1/ST. In any case, the ST is a great value for the performance you get and if you live in a part of the world where you don't frequently have a lot of salt on the roads, they are a pretty good option.


 Sums it up well. I'll ad that unless I'm mistaken the SHS and Street Comforts also have less of a drop than the V1s and STs


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## GunKata (Apr 4, 2006)

TBomb said:


> That isn't entirely true. The ST's are the same as the KW V1s just coated instead of stainless steel, and they "only" have a 5 year warranty instead of the KW's lifetime, which does result in the ST's being less expensive. The Street Comforts and SHS are valved differently and are a more comfortable ride than the V1/ST. In any case, the ST is a great value for the performance you get and if you live in a part of the world where you don't frequently have a lot of salt on the roads, they are a pretty good option.


 good to hear. I'm anxiously awaiting the install on the SHS's for my car. I've been in 2 cars with the ST's and was quite impressed with the ride quality on them. 



ceese said:


> Sums it up well. I'll ad that unless I'm mistaken the SHS and Street Comforts also have less of a drop than the V1s and STs


 OK, because your initial post seemed to indicate you thought the ST's were more performance oriented, so just wanted to clarify that.


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## t_white (Jun 10, 2006)

cldub said:


> I got my coils for $500 brand new!


 You also got a cheap ass brand of coils.. cheap is cheap. 



kgw said:


> The spacers aren't threaded; what you do is drop the lower control arm to lower the spring enough to slide the spacer up and over the dial ring from the bottom. Here's some pics I just took:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 For the record, I would never drive hour car if this is your setup. That looks sketchy as hell. 

OP- find taller rear springs with a different spring rate. Probably cheaper than spacers or whatever.


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## cldub (Jul 2, 2010)

t_white said:


> You also got a cheap ass brand of coils.. cheap is cheap.


 Yep, but they do exactly what I wanted them to do


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

GunKata said:


> good to hear. I'm anxiously awaiting the install on the SHS's for my car. I've been in 2 cars with the ST's and was quite impressed with the ride quality on them.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, because your initial post seemed to indicate you thought the ST's were more performance oriented, so just wanted to clarify that.


 That is what I was indicating. I talked to a couple dealers and they both assured me that I would get better handling with the K1s and STs than I would with either the Street Comfort or SHSs. They made it pretty clear that the handling for the SHS and Street Comforts were close to stock.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

t_white said:


> For the record, I would never drive hour car if this is your setup. That looks sketchy as hell.
> 
> OP- find taller rear springs with a different spring rate. Probably cheaper than spacers or whatever.


 I could see where you'd say that - that was my first thought with spacers. However that spring is under pressure and moves up and down in one direction with no horizontal movement. The spacers aren't going anywhere.


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## GunKata (Apr 4, 2006)

ceese said:


> That is what I was indicating. I talked to a couple dealers and they both assured me that I would get better handling with the K1s and STs than I would with either the Street Comfort or SHSs. They made it pretty clear that the handling for the SHS and Street Comforts were close to stock.


 The handling / "performance" should be about the same, especially for primarily street driven cars. The SHS and Street Comforts will be like stock for comfort, dont think the performance would be too similar to stock, nor too different from the ST's. They are very similar.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

GunKata said:


> The handling / "performance" should be about the same, especially for primarily street driven cars. The SHS and Street Comforts will be like stock for comfort, dont think the performance would be too similar to stock, nor too different from the ST's. They are very similar.


 That is what I was told by HPA for the SHS and another dealer for the street comfort. Now my STs have had a couple days to settle - they are very different from stock. Still not as harsh as many coilover A3s I've been in but there is a significant difference in comfort vs OEM exasperated by the fact that I drove to work with a migrane today and every bump killed.


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## kgw (May 1, 2008)

The spring is trapped as deep by the spacer as it was before, and the adjusting ring is also trapped. Nothing is going anywhere unless you lose your lower control arm. 




t_white said:


> You also got a cheap ass brand of coils.. cheap is cheap.
> 
> 
> For the record, I would never drive hour car if this is your setup. That looks sketchy as hell.
> ...


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

A longer spring would be nice comfort-wise, but I agree that the spacer seems fine from a safety standpoint. The perch on my COs is longer, and I'm now even higher, so fewer threads inside the spring:


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

I've got STs and have the same problem, I want the flexibility to raise the rear higher than the current tucked height when needed. I purchased 30mm spacers for KW, just haven't made time to install them. Comfort-wise, I feel the STs are barely and improvement over the sline suspension (maybe 20% stiffer at best). Handling-wise, I think the sline suspension and ride height was much better. The car handles crappy in tight turns where before it was very easy to drive fast over all surfaces. Hopefully that's just the trade off for being so low. 

Ceese, let me know if you want to sell your 17s when you install the 19s. I'm in Portland.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Chimera said:


> I've got STs and have the same problem, I want the flexibility to raise the rear higher than the current tucked height when needed. I purchased 30mm spacers for KW, just haven't made time to install them. Comfort-wise, I feel the STs are barely and improvement over the sline suspension (maybe 20% stiffer at best). Handling-wise, I think the sline suspension and ride height was much better. The car handles crappy in tight turns where before it was very easy to drive fast over all surfaces. Hopefully that's just the trade off for being so low.
> 
> Ceese, let me know if you want to sell your 17s when you install the 19s. I'm in Portland.


 I may take you up on my 17's I need to repair the road rash first - the first owner curbed every single one of them. 

I've only done a couple sharp corners at speed since the install so I'm not sure if I'm just not used to them but I feel as if the car wants to straighten out and I'm fighting it through the curve. Switching lanes at speed is great though. I'm going to give it another week or so and decide whether I'm going to swap them out for euro springs if I can find them.


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## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

Portland and Seattle guys! I never see any A3s in the Portland area  Used to see A3 zip cars all the time in Seattle though... :beer:


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Update 

There were some issues with the way the tires were mounted so I did a lunch hour run over to Goodyear to get them sorted out. While there I was able to raise the front perches by about 18mm. I noticed a difference immediately when I started driving the car - it felt a lot more balanced. I'm not hating the stance nearly as much with the front raised and the new wheels on but I still probably need to go 15 to 20 mm in the rear and another 10 to 15 mm in the front if for no other reason to eliminate the rubbing. I'm sensing fender rolling in my near future. 

Getting ready to be taken off the lift after new wheels were installed and front perched raised. 
 


Height of rear perch 
 

Height of front perch


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

ceese said:


> Update
> 
> There were some issues with the way the tires were mounted so I did a lunch hour run over to Goodyear to get them sorted out. While there I was able to raise the front perches by about 18mm. I noticed a difference immediately when I started driving the car - it felt a lot more balanced. I'm not hating the stance nearly as much with the front raised and the new wheels on but I still probably need to go 15 to 20 mm in the rear and another 10 to 15 mm in the front if for no other reason to eliminate the rubbing. I'm sensing fender rolling in my near future.
> 
> ...


 That doesn't look too low to me  I don't even see any tuck :laugh:


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## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

Looks stock opcorn: 

I kid, I kid  



ceese said:


> Update
> 
> There were some issues with the way the tires were mounted so I did a lunch hour run over to Goodyear to get them sorted out. While there I was able to raise the front perches by about 18mm. I noticed a difference immediately when I started driving the car - it felt a lot more balanced. I'm not hating the stance nearly as much with the front raised and the new wheels on but I still probably need to go 15 to 20 mm in the rear and another 10 to 15 mm in the front if for no other reason to eliminate the rubbing. I'm sensing fender rolling in my near future.
> 
> Getting ready to be taken off the lift after new wheels were installed and front perched raised.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

TBomb said:


> That doesn't look too low to me  I don't even see any tuck :laugh:


 I'm basically standing underneath it. There is about 10mm of tuck on the rear wheel and I can get one finger between the tire and fender in the front. Keep in mind it had been on a lift for over an hour and this was taken right after weight was added to the springs so it hadn't settled yet.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Subaruski1 said:


> Looks stock opcorn:
> 
> I kid, I kid


 Still looking stock?


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

That looks better - got rid of the rake. Still have noise?


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

JRutter said:


> That looks better - got rid of the rake. Still have noise?


The noise is still there. Getting rid of the rake made a huge difference in the driveability of the car for the better and really changed how the suspension feels. There is still a little rake I need to get rid of but can live with it in the short term. Now to get rid of this noise.


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## Pretarion (Jun 13, 2003)

Looks great.

Clarify a few things for me. How did you correct the rake? Are you using the spacers, or did you just adjust the front? Also, describe the noise. Was it there before you put on the 19's?


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Pretarion said:


> Looks great.
> 
> Clarify a few things for me. How did you correct the rake? Are you using the spacers, or did you just adjust the front? Also, describe the noise. Was it there before you put on the 19's?


I just raised the front about 20mm. I'm ordering spacers though, I really want to raise the car another 20mm all the way around. 

The noise was there before installing the 19s. I tried to figure out what it was when it was on the lift yesterday with the wheel off but they wouldn't let me get on the lift to turn the wheel. I don't think it has anything to do with the coilovers - something got knocked out of place during the install - I posted up a sound clip of what it sounds like on this thread. 

I am rubbing like a mofo though.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...hen-turning-coming-from-left-wheel&p=78000480


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

By "raise" you mean the perch, correct? Looks to have less wheel gap in front now. I'm surprised there isn't more of a raked forward look having the same wheel-to-fender gap.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Chimera said:


> By "raise" you mean the perch, correct? Looks to have less wheel gap in front now. I'm surprised there isn't more of a raked forward look having the same wheel-to-fender gap.


Raised the front perch 5 threads and with it the front end just under 20mm. The gap looks smaller because my new wheels are 8.5" wide vs. the 7" wide wheels that were on there so they fill the well up better. Also, with the reduced rake the car is more evenly balanced so not as much weight is on the front of the car which should actually make the gap look bigger not smaller.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

*Looking for advice*

So the spacers that I was promised didn't come from KW today and I'm a little annoyed because I'm rubbing pretty badly. On top of that I have family in town so I'm stuck with a passenger in the back seat through Sunday.

On the front I can come up another 15mm and that should eliminate and rubbing up there.

On the back my wheels are nearly flush with the fender. This afternoon is the first time I took a hard look at the inside of the rear fender and I realized that what I thought was a metal lip was only a fender liner. For the time being I'm OK with rubbing against the liner as I don't think this will hurt anything for a few days but I was under the impression that you could roll our fenders to create another 1/4" to 1/2" of space without effecting the outside look of the fender. I now realize that this is incorrect. I'm pretty sure that where I'm rubbing the most is where the screw for the lower valance meets the quarter panel. This sticks out on the inside of the fender about 1/2" - Has anyone modified this to eliminate rubbing. My wheels are 8.5 wide et 45 so as I said I'm almost right at the edge.

Suggestions anyone?


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## cldub (Jul 2, 2010)

ceese said:


> So the spacers that I was promised didn't come from KW today and I'm a little annoyed because I'm rubbing pretty badly. On top of that I have family in town so I'm stuck with a passenger in the back seat through Sunday.
> 
> On the front I can come up another 15mm and that should eliminate and rubbing up there.
> 
> ...


Did you take out the bolt holding the rear bumper cover to the quarter panel? You can also bend in that tab back there to eliminate some of the rubbing


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Some pics here that might help visualize what we talked about:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...t-wheel-tire-you-can-fit&highlight=fender+mod


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

JRutter said:


> Some pics here that might help visualize what we talked about:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...t-wheel-tire-you-can-fit&highlight=fender+mod


Very helpful - thnx


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

ZCSPEC came over today, diagnosed and fixed the rubbing sound. The rotor shield was bent and we removed the fender bolts both front and rear which elimated any daily driving rubbing that might occur. It was driven around most of the afternoon with a passenger in the back without the slightest bit of rubbing at normal speeds. 

The only rubbing happened at high speeds with super aggressive driving and tight curves. The bolt tabs on the inside of the fenders will have to be rolled back but that should alleviate any rubbing on the track as well. 

Overall impression now that everything is working as it should. The STs are awesome. After a 90 mile drive today on twisties that I've saved for motorcyle riding in the past - not only does it feel like a different car but its a blast to drive. In addtion, while the car is much tighter on Seattle roads than OEM, its significantly more comfortable than other sport suspension that I've driven on and it is more than comfortable enough for daily use in my opinion. 

In conclusion, spacers are on order which should be here next week but I'll wait a while to install them.

Thanks for all of your suggestions and feedback in solving some of these issues.


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

congrats! glad it worked out for you. Put me down for test drive if i ever come to your corner of the map.

do you know what the spring rates are?


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

SilverSquirrel said:


> congrats! glad it worked out for you. Put me down for test drive if i ever come to your corner of the map.
> 
> do you know what the spring rates are?


As far as I know ST hasn't published the spring rates, however, I need to call their sales department tomorrow so I'll ask then. They do publish that the drop is 1.2 to 2.0 in the back. This is incorrect. The minimum drop in the rear has to be at least two inches.


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## Pretarion (Jun 13, 2003)

Glad you found out about the rubbing issue, and that it was an easy fix.

I am assuming you are going to keep the kit? I found a place that offered me $725 shipped. I may jump on it.

Lemme ask you this, how is the ride? Is it harsh and bouncy, or is it firm, or is it close to OEM?


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## Pretarion (Jun 13, 2003)

Also,

Can you measure the distance from ground to fender at the center of the wheel for both the front and back?


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Pretarion said:


> Glad you found out about the rubbing issue, and that it was an easy fix.
> 
> I am assuming you are going to keep the kit? I found a place that offered me $725 shipped. I may jump on it.
> 
> Lemme ask you this, how is the ride? Is it harsh and bouncy, or is it firm, or is it close to OEM?


Pretty firm, just bouncy enough to keep them from being harsh but significant handling improvement over OEM. 

Basically, I had to trade some performance for comfort and at the end of the day I think I made the right decision with the STs as their performance is good and they are by no means annoyingly rough.

One suggestion, if you order them you may want to consider ordering the KW spacers at the same time so you can install them together. Even on the highest setting on the STs put the top of your tires 10mm below your rear fender so with 30mm spacers you can dial the perches all the way up and still go a few mm lower than you would on the highest setting without them.



Pretarion said:


> Also,
> 
> Can you measure the distance from ground to fender at the center of the wheel for both the front and back?




I'll get you the measurements tomorrow.


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## Pretarion (Jun 13, 2003)

I just don't understand how low they are in the rear. The factory specs on the ST's show the minimal drop is 1.4". That should not drop your car to 10mm below tire . That does not measure up right.

As of right now, my car sits on the premium suspension. It measures... Fronts - 26 3/4" (26 12/16) and Rears - 26 5/8" (26 10/16).
If I drop 1.6" in rears, that gives me 25", if I drop 1.2" in rear, that gives me 25 7/16". 
So that tells me, if I put the minimum drop on the ST's, I should still be right at 25 4/16". 
I want to see what your measurements are before the spacers.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Pretarion said:


> I just don't understand how low they are in the rear. The factory specs on the ST's show the minimal drop is 1.4". That should not drop your car to 10mm below tire . That does not measure up right.
> 
> As of right now, my car sits on the premium suspension. It measures... Fronts - 26 3/4" (26 12/16) and Rears - 26 5/8" (26 10/16).
> If I drop 1.6" in rears, that gives me 25", if I drop 1.2" in rear, that gives me 25 7/16".
> ...



If you read many of the ST threads, it seems to be a common theme with the STs that they drop it lower than people expect. I was on S-line suspension.

*This is where it currently sits on the rear perch - maximum safe height.



Minimum drop is about two inches.



Wraping my fingers around the tire to show tuck.

*


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Just remember that even though GTF is the easiest way to *measure* drop, it is not necessarily the best way to *compare* drop between cars. Wheel and tire setup can change the measurement even if the wheel center to top of arch is constant.

Glad you're not rubbing now!


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## asal (Oct 12, 2007)

Subaruski1 said:


> Not the best pic but these are konis with stock wheels. I can't remember the height setting on the rear but it was definitely not at the highest.


what do you use on those OEM wheels to get them that clear of brake dust? Mine haven't been that clean since I picked it up.



rawaudi said:


> Thats Me! :wave:
> 
> Ceese, did you think about getting Euro Sline springs? They will run you ~500ish but give you a lower drop than US Sline and still provide OE ride quality.
> 
> A couple of us were looking at them but couldn't get a group buy going and I couldn't justify spending 500 when I can get coils for 700....


Did someone mention euro s-line springs? Nah, must've been sasquatch.



ceese said:


> I really like the ride quality of these a lot. It's not crazy stiff on normal streets - minute comfort difference from stock, significantly less body roll on corners and they deffinitely help keep too much weight from being redistributed from the front so overall the car is launching better from a dead stop and gripping better on acceleration. I'm going to keep them on my car for at least a couple weeks and see if I can come up with a solution for the height or I might feel differently about the tuck after I install my 19" wheels. *There's a chance I might decide to sell them though so let me know if you are interested and I'll give you a good deal on a set of coils with only a couple hundred miles on them.*


On the waiting list opcorn:

Oh, and very nice ceese, i like it :thumbup:


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## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

I'll wash my car maybe every other week but I'll wash my wheels every few days.



asal said:


> what do you use on those OEM wheels to get them that clear of brake dust? Mine haven't been that clean since I picked it up.


Speaking of wheels. Got a new set of 19" Audi 5-arms. Figured it was relative to this thread. 

19x8.5 et43 

Hankook Ventus V12 225/35/19 

Koni Coilovers


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Subaruski1 said:


> I'll wash my car maybe every other week but I'll wash my wheels every few days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like the wheels. How are you likeing the Hakooks? They and the Bridgestones were on my shortlist however my VMR wheels already had new Yokohama S Drives on them.


Oh, for the record everyone I'm keeping the STs.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

asal said:


> what do you use on those OEM wheels to get them that clear of brake dust? Mine haven't been that clean since I picked it up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Someone did mention the Euro S-Lines. If I had to do over I'd probably flip a quarter as I think a .5" drop over stock S-Line is pretty significant but now all the issues are resolved I'm loving the STs.

and thank you.


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## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

I have only driven on them to work and back but so far really impressed. They are pretty quite and a surprisingly comfortable for a 35 sidewall. 



ceese said:


> I like the wheels. How are you likeing the Hakooks? They and the Bridgestones were on my shortlist however my VMR wheels already had new Yokohama S Drives on them.
> 
> 
> Oh, for the record everyone I'm keeping the STs.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Wanted to finish this thread off for a while. Finally got out to play with the new camera today and managed to get some pictures after installing the spring spacers. I'm very happy with the new ride height.

Original install before spring spacers









After spring spacers and being raised 1"


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## Bull_D (May 28, 2012)

ceese said:


> Wanted to finish this thread off for a while. Finally got out to play with the new camera today and managed to get some pictures after installing the spring spacers. I'm very happy with the new ride height.
> 
> Original install before spring spacers
> 
> ...



beauty, looks great. i put 30mm spacers in the rear of mine (KW's) and adjusted about the same. i might be able to come down another 1/4 - 3/8 inch, but i am happy. never rub, even with 5 in the car. but the ride height looks good.


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## BritBulldog (Feb 6, 2009)

Looks freaking sexy man!


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Yeah, looks great amigo!


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

nice! I like the wheel/tire combo... what is it exactly?


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

A better angle.




BritBulldog said:


> Looks freaking sexy man!





SilverSquirrel said:


> nice! I like the wheel/tire combo... what is it exactly?





Bull_D said:


> beauty, looks great. i put 30mm spacers in the rear of mine (KW's) and adjusted about the same. i might be able to come down another 1/4 - 3/8 inch, but i am happy. never rub, even with 5 in the car. but the ride height looks good.


Thanks guys. The car is a lot more balanced now although since raising it I do get noticeably more body roll. The wheels are VMR 715s 8.5x19 ET 46 and the tires are Yokohama S.Drives




JRutter said:


> Yeah, looks great amigo!


Again JR thanks for your help and the use of your garage and tools installing the spacers.


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## Bull_D (May 28, 2012)

ceese said:


> A better angle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



are you running stock sway bar? if so, i highly recommend H&R rear sway. they are solid, not hollow. really sharpens up the handling, cuts out body roll. still very good ride. one of my best mods.


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## ceese (Jul 2, 2011)

Bull_D said:


> are you running stock sway bar? if so, i highly recommend H&R rear sway. they are solid, not hollow. really sharpens up the handling, cuts out body roll. still very good ride. one of my best mods.


Next mod :thumbup:


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## biff2bart (Dec 5, 2011)

Bull_D said:


> are you running stock sway bar? if so, i highly recommend H&R rear sway. they are solid, not hollow. really sharpens up the handling, cuts out body roll. still very good ride. one of my best mods.


Ditto:

I have H&R front and rear sway bars: both are set to "soft" and its perfect for daily driving. Absolutely worth while upgrade!

I do think that the "stiff" setting would be a bit harsh for daily driving though: with some reasonably stiff dampers and springs, the soft setting is already pushing it for rougher roads.


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## azoceanblue (Aug 13, 2006)

biff2bart said:


> Ditto:
> 
> I have H&R front and rear sway bars: both are set to "soft" and its perfect for daily driving. Absolutely worth while upgrade!
> 
> I do think that the "stiff" setting would be a bit harsh for daily driving though: with some reasonably stiff dampers and springs, the soft setting is already pushing it for rougher roads.


I still have not made up my mind, on at least getting the rear H&R sway bar, at least.

With my PSS10's set to 4 all around, the body roll, has been reduced significantly.:wave:


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## Bull_D (May 28, 2012)

azoceanblue said:


> I still have not made up my mind, on at least getting the rear H&R sway bar, at least.
> 
> With my PSS10's set to 4 all around, the body roll, has been reduced significantly.:wave:


i'd still push you to consider the RSB. it doubles the pleasure you're getting from the PSS10's. i only went rear. less than 3 hundie, its a pretty cheap, easy DIY upgrade.


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## biff2bart (Dec 5, 2011)

azoceanblue said:


> I still have not made up my mind, on at least getting the rear H&R sway bar, at least.
> 
> With my PSS10's set to 4 all around, the body roll, has been reduced significantly.:wave:


Ha ha - I'm going to parry your reply with this post since I have PSS10s as well, and the sway bars still made a massive difference! So, really it's an even easier decision for you now 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6ALySsPXt0

I had the PSS10s set on 3, but that wasn't quite stiff enough: now they're at 5 front and rear, but I think I'll be playing around with them and end up somewhere with a mix around 4 or 5 - maybe 6 for the occasional highway driving day - for street use.

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that I went through exactly what you're thinking right now and I'm happy that I pulled the trigger on both the front and rears!


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## azoceanblue (Aug 13, 2006)

biff2bart said:


> Ha ha - I'm going to parry your reply with this post since I have PSS10s as well, and the sway bars still made a massive difference! So, really it's an even easier decision for you now
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6ALySsPXt0
> 
> ...


Maybe after Le Mans next year then :facepalm:


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