# Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with DuPont Krytox Lubricant



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox*

Volkswagen sells a weatherstrip lubricant under part number G 052 172.A1 for maintaining the weatherstrip roof seals in the Eos and that part number is given in the Eos owners manual. Another member priced it at the VW dealer for $95 in a 30ML volume. It is a liquid form of DuPont Krytox, the DuPont equivalent part number is GPL 105 and it is sold in a minimum package of 0.5KG/1.1lb for $145 from Krytox Vendors. The 0.5kg bottle is about 8X the volume from the VW dealer. The Chemical Abstracts Index (CAS) name for Krytox fluorinated oils is oxirane trifluoro (trifluoromethyl)-homopolymer, and the CAS Registry Number is 60164-51-4. 
Thanks to Speedster356 in Greece for the picture.








According to the MSDS sheet, its 100% Krytox









Dupont has just put out an interesting pdf that deals with Krytox as a long term solution for squeaks and rattles in automotive applications.
http://www2.dupont.com/Lubrica...1.pdf 
There has been an update newsletter from DuPont dealing with the 100 series Krytox oils, specifically comparing the performance and durability of the auto industry standard GPL105 to thinner viscosity GPL104 and GPL103 versions.
http://www2.dupont.com/Lubrica...2.pdf
Volkswagen offers 3 versions of Krytox. The second part number is a 100ML aerosol spray version under part number G 052 172.A2 and after examining the MSDS sheets, it was possible to determine that there is no silicone present in the product, but of the 100ML volume, it is mostly propellants. You only get 5-7% Krytox by weight, but Krytox is very dense so you would end up with less than 5-7 ML if you calculated the content by volume. This part number appears to be a poor value.








Volkswagen also lists part number G 060 172.A3 which is a paste (grease) version in a tube. The DuPont Equivalent to this is GPL 205 and it is a 2 ounce/56.7 gram quantity. This version of Krytox is also well known by owners of Corvettes, as well as the Cadillac Allante with a removable hardtop. Krytox is the only product which can silence the squeaking problems in the weatherstrip as the chassis flexes against the removable hardtop in the Allante.
I purchased Krytox GPL 205 for $29 plus shipping from Darrel Kinkaid at THT Group Inc. His E-mail is [email protected] or 650-595-1112, extension 1. Unfortunately the price has now gone up over 30% to $38 for the 2 ounce tube. Its frustrating to see such rapid price increases, and a good incentive to look to other vendors.
Here's another affordable alternative. You can get GM part number 3634770 for $32.49 at GM parts Direct. Its worth reading their product description. After reviewing the MSDS sheet from GM, I was able to determine that this is the liquid Krytox GPL 105 which is an exact match to the VW part number G 052 172 A1 in the Eos owners manual at 1/3 of the price. The quantity listed on the label is 29ML. It has been mentioned that the liquid may be more difficult to apply precisely, and may be prone to unintentional spreading over time. So you may prefer the thicker GPL-205 grease instead of this.
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/








You can clearly see that the label lists the contents as "Oxirane" and the CAS registry number of 60164-51-4 (see top paragraph of this post for information on determining a chemical match). The liquid in the bottle is about the consistency of maple syrup. You can see it cost a little more at my GM dealer, and they had to order it anyway, so I just recommend ordering from the gmpartsdirect.com website.








There is a permeable applicator pad fixed to the top of the bottle to control flow which would remind you of a bingo marker. This pad and its white plastic mounting ring are easily removed from the translucent bottle for direct access to the liquid inside.








My contact at the GM dealer also got me the MSDS sheet which confirmed the GM 3634770 weatherstrip dressing is 100.0000% Krytox. Notice the CAS registry number I explained in the first paragraph.








To precisely apply the liquid Krytox GPL 105 oil, you might want to repackage into a squeeze bottle oil dispenser with a needle to reach into tight spots. There's many different styles available. When you are selecting a Luer needle, get the biggest possible. I recommend 14 gauge 1.5 inch length, 16 gauge is O.K., but don't go smaller (higher number i.e. 18, 20 gauge) than that.
http://jensenglobal.com/








Again here's the Krytox FAQ directly from DuPont to quickly make you aware of the chemical properties. Krytox is really an aerospace lubricant, use as a dressing/protectant is a secondary application.
http://www.dupont.com/lubricants/en/faqs.html 
Here's an old interesting discussion from the Plymouth Prowler board in 2002 when some individual was selling GPL 205 for $20.70/2oz tube. The e-mail/group buy is no good anymore, but there is a highly in-depth technical discussion that's worth reading. Its a little alarming to me how quickly the price of Krytox has been increasing over such a short period of time.
http://www.prowleronline.com/u....html 
If you read step 21 (scroll down) of this link, you can see a good idea of how to apply krytox paste to weatherstrip with a thin protective glove.
http://www.corvettemagazine.co...p.asp








Here's my tube of Krytox GPL205. Its working well on my non-Eos vehicles. Remember Krytox is primarily a lubricant so it can be used anywhere you would apply regular oils or greases. It is far superior to petroleum based lubricants in that it is very resistant to washoff from nautrally occuring solvents, and has a much slower evaporation rate, guards against corrosion better, is a better lubricant and is much cleaner. Your door and trunk hinges would be better protected with Krytox compared with, for example, white lithium grease.
























Most auto manufacturers offer Krytox in some form or another to deal with squeaks and rattles. Here's an example from Saab, at least they don't try relabel it.












_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 5:57 PM 7-11-2007_


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## nette (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Thank You for your research and detailed information.
I have had my EOS 3 weeks. It's gotten its first two "baths" at the dealer. Once when I had the LoJack installed and the upholstery treated and once when a window wouldn't stay closed after the roof was closed.

I need to purchased something soon for the seals. 
Maybe we are all a little paranoid?? My husband has driven a 2001 Corvette, with the removable top, for five years. He takes it to the local car wash and has never used any sealant on the weatherstripping. No Leaks, looks great !! 
Are the EOS seals made of a different type of material?


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (nette)*

I guess the reason we have the top seal and weatherstrip issue under the microscope is because one owner noticed white spots appearing on his seals after a couple of rainstorms. So far it appears to be an isolated (or at least limited) problem. I'm thinking that particular Eos might be downwind of an industrial town or manufacturing facility, and the white spotting on the rubber is a result of the car being subject to excessive environmental fallout/pollutants. In any case, Krytox does not oxidize, its does not contain any volatile compounds that evaporate, and its very resistant to wash off from water or naturally occurring organic solvents. So treating your seals with Krytox would appear to create a rather robust environmental barrier. I'm still waiting on my order so I can post some original pictures.
To answer your question, the rubber seals have a coating applied to them in order to address a wind noise problem that delayed the release of the Eos by several months. So I would never try to aggressively scrub the seals or wash the car with any type of high pressure spray hose. Also, things like silicone tend to soften rubber and break down rubber (make it spongy) over a long time, and might cause this coating to de-laminate from the weatherstrip/seals. I believe the Eos owners manual specifically recommends against products containing silicone.
If anybody has an Eos owners manual and a good digital camera, It might not be a bad idea to post pictures of care/maintenance procedures and warnings about the top seals in this thread.


_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 10:43 AM 9-17-2006_


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## bjorngra (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

On my Eos are a several white spots visible. I can't get them off. I don't know how to remove it? I wil take a picture and post it. I wil look in the owners manual, if there is something to do about it. When I make the spot wet it's away, but when the water is dryed up you will see it.







I thinks it's the coating that becomes white when it comes in contact with water.

I have just send the pictures to my dealer. When I got an answer I wil post it.

_Modified by bjorngra at 11:21 AM 9-18-2006_


_Modified by bjorngra at 12:56 PM 9-18-2006_


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## bjorngra (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (bjorngra)*

See the picture I've made today. This is the 1st time he gets wet by rain.


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## Domdog31 (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (bjorngra)*

great pics..i get the same white spots almost a fiber like thread that can be seen why the car is dry...lets find out and ge this taken care of


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (Domdog31)*

Okay, back to my theory about excessive environmental fallout / pollution as a source for spotting on the rubber. Domdog31, you're in New Jersey which, lets face it, is heavily industrial and filthy so the potential for you to be on the receiving end of sulfur / acidic fallout is very high. I don't know about bjorngra in the Netherlands, any factories by you? Where's the prevailing winds coming from?


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## bjorngra (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

I think it's not the pollution because I saw it after I washed the car with clear water. Before the were only a few very little spots. At the moment the dealer is investigate it. But I think that everyone should use original VW products. Perhaps is Krytox bad for the special coating on the seals? And erases the coating.
The strange thing is that it's not the whole seal thats get white. 
I wil post the reaction of my dealer. The other Dutch member EVGUNST said:
The grainy texture can be solved by putting on a special VW-gel produced specially for the eos.
But I don't know if he tried it? And of it's working.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (bjorngra)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bjorngra* »_ But I think that everyone should use original VW products. Perhaps is Krytox bad for the special coating on the seals? And erases the coating.


I fully appreciate a desire to maintain the Eos exactly per the manufacturers instructions (and recommend that approach)...there's nothing funnier than some of the posts you read where somebody thinks they know more than the auto manufacturer, but I'll explain the motivation behind my research which eventually became the top post in this thread.
My objective was to find out exactly what Volkswagen was selling for $95 as weatherstrip dressing, and find a less expensive source for the exact same substance, and that's what I've done. You can pay $95 for Krytox in a Volkswagen labeled container at the Volkswagen dealer, or you can pay $29 for Krytox in a DuPont labeled container from a 3rd party vendor...either way its the same stuff.
If you read the Krytox FAQ on the DuPont website (see top post), DuPont goes on at great lengths to explain how Krytox is chemically inert, non-reactive, and does not oxidize or break down. That would indicate there is no solvent characteristic to Krytox, so it would not attack the weatherstrip or the coating. Remember the principal application of Krytox is a lubricant. If you read the section about compatibility with seals it reads exactly....
"Is Krytox® compatible with various seal materials?
Krytox® is compatible with all seal materials. It is chemically inert."
Here's a translated discussion from a German board dealing with the new Beetle Cabriolet over a year ago. Apparently Krytox is also recommended by Volkswagen in that application as well. The discussion was about obtaining Krytox outside of Volkswagen. Apparently the Germans weren't interested in Volkswagens grotesquely overinflated price either. This was my source for the 3 different Volkswagen part numbers. 
http://translate.google.com/tr...lr%3D



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 5:36 PM 9-23-2006_


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## bjorngra (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

You're right. I'm sorry I did not read everything. So Krytox is the same as the stuff that VW is selling in theire own tube. Hmm.. I think VW is selling all accesoires with tripple prices. Thanks for your short explanation. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Did somebody already used Krytox, and did it work to remove the white spots on the Eos?


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## JML (Jun 19, 2000)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox*

Adding in while my Eos is still a few months from production at least, I looked at the three Eos parked near my house after a few rainy weeks and I haven't seen similar white spots on the roof seals. However, I checked the inside of the inner door seals of my Audi A4 (2004 model) and I found some stains similar to the roof stains shown in the pictures posted above. I also found such stains on the wiondow seals of some cars (usually older cars with the softer window seals) parked in my street). To me, they look like the snow stains you get on leather shoes or the decoloring of some chocolate bars (usually the ones that went from hot to cold environment). This *could* (uniformed layman talking here) indicate that the stains might be excess "stuff" (for lack of better word) that the seal "sweats" out under certain conditions. Could those experiencing the stains please think about whether their cars were exposed to rapidly changing temperatures or other conditions that might have caused the seals to first slightly expand (not normal operational squeeze) and then contract. Just an uninformed thought.


_Modified by JML at 4:40 AM 9-24-2006_


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## Hotmoose (Aug 31, 2006)

*Re: Got it!! (Speedster356)*

I bought a 8 onces tube of Krytox (GPL 205) for 125$ canadian. I've used it on my EOS. I'm waiting some rain to see the result. I had only few white spots on the seals. I suspect that it might be wax. When the dealer prepare the car, they probalby wax it...anyway, they waxed mine for sure. These white sopts probably come from the wax....food for thought anyway. Once I got the result I will post a comment.


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## bjorngra (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: Got it!! (Hotmoose)*

Ok, when you brought it on didn't it disappear? I have also white spots, but it looks like they not getting more. My dealer is investigating it with the VW Import. 2WKs ago










_Modified by bjorngra at 10:05 AM 10-3-2006_


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Got it!! (bjorngra)*

The top post has now been updated. I bought the GM weatherstrip dressing and traced the Chemical Abstracts Index number of 60164-51-4 to determine an exact match for Krytox GPL105/GM 3634770/VW G052 172 A1. 
The liquid is silghtly easier to spread compared to the paste GPL-205 but they both will work just fine. It has been mentioned that the liquid may be more prone to unintentional spreading/leaching out compared to the paste GPL-205. 
I knew the counterman at the GM dealer and paid a discounted price of $34.36 plus tax, but it is still cheaper at gmpartsdirect.com



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 11:37 AM 10-12-2006_


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## Hotmoose (Aug 31, 2006)

*Re: Got it!! (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Just an update on my part. I use Krytox GPL 205 and that work just fine. Little white spot disapeared , and I find that GPL 205 is easier to apply because its a grease, so no leak. I got also a liquid lubricant from PBR and used it on my other car, but the liquid tend to leak all over the place.
Bottom line, use whatever its best for you. For me I continue to use GPL 205 with a little paint brush


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Got it!! (Hotmoose)*

*Archival Note:* related discussion - Unwanted sounds from the roof (Squeak and Rattle Repair Kit)


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## bjorngra (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: Got it!! (PanEuropean)*

Yesterday I got the VW Lubricant from my dealer. Just made a picture of it. 
I got it for FREE. It's guarantee they said.
I brought it on today. It's very simple. Just spray all the rubber seals. I half opend the roof 
to spray the sides of the seals that are not visible from the outside. 
De white spots are gone. I'l hope for a long time. The lubricant spray is almost empty. 100ml
I ask or I can get another one 'for free?".


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Got it!! (Hotmoose)*

Haven't got my EOS yet, so I can't comment on whether or not I have white spots yet.
The idea it may be caused by wax, or other protectant, sounds plausible. The white spots do look a bit like wax residue in the photo.
Have the cars with the spotting problem been through an automatic car wash that has a wax or clearcoat protectant cycle??
If wax is the culprit, the krytox grease may prevent the wax from adhering, and solve the problem.







hmmm??


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## vweosdriver (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

I have enjoyed reading the many posts on this subject. I have a seal lubricant/protector from BMW called Gummi-Pflege part # 82 14 9 407 015. Would someone please cross reference it to see if it is the same as the Krytox? It has no CAS number on it. It is in a 75ml tube with a foam applicator. Also on the tube is D-80788 Munchen and Tel. +89/3 1170 08. TIA


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (vweosdriver)*

The best way to see what your BMW part number contains would be to get a MSDS sheet from your BMW dealers parts counter.
It is a good idea to to still keep an eye out for alternative sources for Krytox, we may stumble on a cheaper source yet. I'm sure both BMW and Volvo have Krytox in some form, because they both offer convertibles, and now they both have RHT convertibles. I'll see what I can learn next time I'm at the BMW dealer...who also happens to be the VW dealer.
_(minor edit - Michael)_


_Modified by PanEuropean at 4:19 PM 11-14-2006_


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## vweosdriver (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Although the product is no longer available from BMW, the dealer did get me a MSDS. It contains n-paraffins and silicon. One nice thing about it is that a few minutes after applying it the rubber absorbs it. Thanks for your reply and the work you've done researching the Krytox products. I'll probably buy the GM product. My Eos arrived at the port today so I should have it in a couple of weeks.


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## IchLiebeVWs (Oct 11, 2006)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

I would like to thank you for all the input into the lubricant. My car started showing those white strips on the weatherstripping and when I took my car to the dealership to get the windows tinted I asked them for the lubricant and the service guy wanted to argue with me that he did not want to order the lubricant for me until he knew that it was the right product. I had to explain to him that I have been viewing the information on Vortex since the beginning of the EOS site and that the threads stated what the product was and that the information was available in the owners manual. I liked being an informed consumer. Thank you, thank you, thank you!


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (vweosdriver)*

I did a little research on Krytox on the Dupont website and offer the following info for INFORMATION only. 
Krytox is an inert liquid lubricant composed of flourine, carbon and oxygen. 
According to Dupont, "Krytox lubricants for seals and gasket material do not cause cracking or swelling and are compatible with all plastic and synthetic rubber."
To create Krytox grease Dupont adds PTFE (a form of Teflon) to thicken the product. As far as I can tell the specific product used is Zylon PTFE.
PTFE is composed of flourine and carbon. Making it a very similar product to Krytox.
I could not find anywhere on Dupont's site where it confirms PTFE compatibility with plastic and synthetic rubber.
With being such a similar product, one would assume it would be compatible.
Only bringing this up because the VW OEM product is the liquid Krytox, which would be 100% Krytox, without the added PTFE.
The thicker the grease, the higher the PTFE content.
Not suggesting anyone change from the grease product if they are happy with it, but wanted to put the info out there to assist in the decision making process.









It's possible VW markets the liquid form due to the absence of PTFE??


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## Bef (Nov 20, 2005)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (just4fun)*

PTFE *is* Teflon. It is incredibly inert and is safe to use on plastics and rubbers. It is widely used in automotive and aerospace applications as a gasket & seal lubricant. It also has the lowest coefficient of sliding friction known. (yahoo for being a chemist!)


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## Bef (Nov 20, 2005)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (Bef)*

Also, I ordered the Krytox grease from Darrel Kinkaid at THT Group Inc (mentioned in original post)... There was a 2-tube minimum at $29 per tube (2 oz), plus shipping. Nice guy, for sure.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (Bef)*

Thanks for confirming compatibility Bef


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## jhlong (Nov 1, 2006)

I went to the THT Group webpage, but I couldn't find the lubricant (although being a new owner, I'll admit I don't know exactly what I'm looking for). Can someone please tell me the name of the product as it is listed on their webpage?


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (jhlong)*

I don't believe its on the webpage, it was a non-stock part number when I ordered, with a 2-3 week lead time. Just call / email part number GPL 205 per the top post to Darrel Kinkaid. Someone mentioned there is a 2 tube minimum, perhaps someone else wants to split an order with you? Instant message jhlong if interested.



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 12:40 PM 11-8-2006_


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## Bef (Nov 20, 2005)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

^^^ What he said. I called Darrell and he was very helpful.


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## theothereos (Oct 9, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Product is not on the website, but you can contact Darrel via e-mail ([email protected]) or phone +1 650 595 1112
GPL 205 prices are as follows:

2 ounce tube: $29.00 each
8 ounce tube: $88.40 each
0.8Kg Cartridge: $244.25 Each
Various containers per Kilogram: $290.00 each
I purchased the 8 oz tube and white spots are gone.


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## Timokreon (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

A question for all my wonderful VW owners. Yesterday my area had it's 1st snow storm of the year. On my way home from work I started hearing a kind of clanking noise from the roof, sounding like it was coming from the back area of the roof, perhaps over the rear seats or towards the rear window.
I have applied the krytox on as many seals as I have found, so I am curious about 2 things.
1) How often are people putting krytox on their seals?
2) I'm thinking of just taking this into the dealer when I take it in to replace the MFD and tell them about it. Perhaps they will use the rattle kit that has been spoken about on a different thread, or??
Any suggestions or comments would be helpful


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (Timokreon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Timokreon* »_Yesterday my area had it's 1st snow storm of the year. 

Tim:
That's an understatement if there ever was one. That 'first snowstorm' you referred to was such a doozer that it even made CNN news here in Europe - see this link: Storm causes death, trouble across mid-U.S..
The clanking noise you heard was probably the roof collapsing from the weight of all the snow on it. Be sure to melt all the snow and perhaps wait a few days before you take it in to the dealership to get a new roof installed, to ensure that VW doesn't put 2 and 2 together...








Michael


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (PanEuropean)*

Interesting question.. What is the snowload for an EOS roof


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## Timokreon (Nov 13, 2006)

*Need Help*

Hello everyone!








I need some help with the seals and krytox. I am curious how often people are putting krytox on their seals? Also, how much do you put on your seals? Just a little tiny bit, or???? 
I have also gotten some on my paint














My own fault and am curious what people recommend to get it off your painted surfaces?
My problem seems to be that if I don't put the krytox after almost EVERY carwash, then I end up hearing all kinds of rattles etc.. coming from the roof and trunk area. Very annoying








So any and all help would be appreciated. Perhaps I should just let the dealer wash the car and let them apply the krytox after washing?


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Need Help (Timokreon)*

Tim, up on the top post, my most recent update is a link to a Dupont pdf dealing with durability (see first link at top). They seem to think an application can last 4 years pretty easily. 
Krytox does not evaporate quickly like petroleum based oils and greases can, nor does it wash off easily. I would think 2 applications a year would be more than enough, even for daily drivers in harsh environments. 
On my cars, the GPL-205 paste I've applied stays on the weatherstrip so long, that the only problem I've had is occasionally forgetting about it and ending up with a handful of Krytox when I rest my hand on the weatherstrip inadvertantly. I have not used the GPL105 oil as a weatherstrip dressing, but I have used it for door hinge and throttle cable lubricant, and I also used it in my brake caliper slide pins to replace sil-glyde that I had been using before, its only been 1 week since I repaired my brakes, so I won't be able to check durability for a while, but the brakes do seem to grab a little faster now...but that might be new parts too, we'll see.
As far as getting it off paint, my real world experience is that its a non-issue. It just wipes off with an old cotton cloth. Krytox is inert and has no solvent sharacteristic, so it won't damage paint either.



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 12:35 AM 12-4-2006_


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## maxdot (Dec 17, 2006)

*Krytox Comparisons*

As I understand it, Krytox applied to Eos' rubber roof seals helps reduce roof noise, avoid leaks and prevent windows pinching and/or landing up the wrong side of the joint. 
Now that the Eos has been around for a while, is there any consensus on which version of Krytox - liquid or gel - is best? I.e.
(1) the most effective for keeping the rubber flexible.
(2) the easiest to apply and keep off adjacent paint work.
(3) the longest lasting.
I've found a supplier in the UK and am leaning towards the gel but wonder if residues won't brush off on clothes and/or hair when I climb in and out of the car.
Max


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## swordfish1 (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: Krytox Comparisons (maxdot)*

Where is the supplier and how much does it cost please?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Hotmoose (Aug 31, 2006)

*Re: Krytox Comparisons (swordfish1)*

1 Prefer Dupon GPL 205 Krytox grease. It dont leak all over. In Canada an 8 ounce tubes cost 115$ whic come to 100$ USD. There is a thread that you can look at
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2985944
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2819603


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Krytox Comparisons (maxdot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxdot* »_I've found a supplier in the UK and am leaning towards the gel but wonder if residues won't brush off on clothes and/or hair when I climb in and out of the car.
Max


If you touch the weatherstrip, either directly, or with your clothes, you're gonna have some Krytox transfer from the weatherstrip to you. It doesn't matter what grade (grease or liquid) you use, its unavoidable, unless you just avoid the weatherstrip.
I personally prefer using the grease as a dressing. Since I have both grades, I've been using the oil more as a lubricant...in situations where I would have previously used a machine oil like 3-in-1.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Krytox Comparisons (maxdot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxdot* »_I've found a supplier in the UK and am leaning towards the gel but wonder if residues won't brush off on clothes and/or hair when I climb in and out of the car.
Max


When I spoke to the Canadian distributor about Krytox he told me that window seals on automobiles are manufactured with PFPE (Krytox), or perflouropolyether, impregnated right into the seal material, so there was no requirement to treat those seals on a routine basis. 
He was speaking autos in general, not specifically the EOS.
I believe the main concern on the EOS, and other retractable hard tops, is maintaining the roof seals to a high standard to prevent the seals from drying out, and to avoid squeeking at contact points.
Therefore, you shouldn't have to worry much about contacting the product unless you choose to use it on seals other than the roof seals.
I also debated which product would be best, liquid or grease, unitil I spoke to the distributor. He told me virtually all Krytox product he sells to owners of retractable hard tops is the grease based product. This is because the grease won't run or drip when exposed to heat.
If you are using the liquid product, and go a little heavy on the application, or maybe some gets "trapped" in a fold in the seal, it could, over time, _possibly_ run and drip onto interior surfaces.
Krytox is very inert, and likely would cause no damage to any surface it lands on, but who wants oily drips in their car?
I don't have my EOS yet, but my plan is to put a thin layer of Krytox grease on the seals, let it sit for 15-20 minutes, then gently wipe the excess off with a soft cloth. This will leave a film on the seal, rather than a coating of grease that would collect an excessive amount of dust and grime.
IMHO I don't think it really matters which product you choose to use, as long as it is applied sparingly.
One last point. The liquid product is pure Krytox, while the grease is Krytox blended with PTFE (Teflon) powder as a thickner.
In the original Krytox thread I posed the question whether or not there should be any concern about the teflon in the grease product. I don't recall who responded, but it was a chemical engineer, who confirmed that there was no concern with the teflon, because it too, is a very inert product. 
Duponts website states: "PTFE is ideal as an additive powder because it can affect the behaviour of many materials without reacting with them, or contaminating their service environments".
Kevin








PS. I guess an oblivious question would be, why arent the roof seals manufactured with PFPE impregnated into them?
I don't have the answer, but my guess is that they are a unique material that cannot be manufactured with PFPE in the base material.
_Modified by just4fun at 9:43 AM 12-22-2006_

_Modified by just4fun at 9:45 AM 12-22-2006_


_Modified by just4fun at 4:33 PM 12-22-2006_


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Krytox Comparisons (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_
I don't have my EOS yet, but my plan is to put a thin layer of Krytox grease on the seals, let it sit for 15-20 minutes, then gently wipe the excess off with a soft cloth. This will leave a film on the seal, rather than a coating of grease that would collect an excessive amount of dust and grime.


Believe it or not, applying Krytox does not make the area as prone to "collecting dust and grime" as petroleum based lubricants do. I guess its because Krytox is so unreactive, and has no solvent characteristic, and does't dry out to leave a sticky film behind.


----------



## maxdot (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: Krytox Comparisons (swordfish1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *swordfish1* »_Where is the supplier and how much does it cost please?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Hi
You'll find them @ http://www.gbrtech.co.uk/prod07.htm
and when I contacted them - [email protected] - they quoted me a 2oz tube (the smallest available) for £16.70 ex vat ex works. But with a minimum order value of £30 you have to order 2 tubes. I haven't yet asked what the next size up is. Judging from the really useful posts on this thread, it looks like the paste is the best form, so when the oysters, turkey and Stollen (with German and French daughters-in-law, we have to please everyone) are digested and gbr have staggered back to work, I'll be getting touch with them.









Have a good time everyone and thank you
Max


----------



## hulahoops (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Krytox Comparisons (maxdot)*

max
please continue to post what you discover in the new year
thanks simon


----------



## archiea (Nov 29, 2006)

I was at a VW dealer here in LA, and I noted a thunder blue Eos that had roof seals pinched from the center to the back of where the sunroof sits when it closes. I also noticed a chalky substance on many of the roof seals. is this a sign?


----------



## jnhashmi (Nov 26, 2006)

*Re: (archiea)*

There is another post on here somewhere that goes into detail on the chalky stuff on the seals. In short, the gel or liquid seems to take care of that.
FYI, I got a bottle of the lubricant from my dealer based on what I read on this forum, and the dealer, although they did give it to me free of charge when I picked up my car, told me that I shouldn't/there is no need, to do it myself. If it is needed they suggest they do it. Just reporting what they told me...


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (jnhashmi)*

*Straight from the horse's mouth...*


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Below are two pictures illustrating the VW lubricant that the owner manual (photo above) refers to. Both of these pictures were originally provided by other forum members and can be seen on the first page of this discussion.
My guess (*guess!*) is that the product with the A2 suffix is the same chemical as the product with the A1 suffix, it is just packaged differently to provide a more convenient way of storing it.
*VW Lubricant for Eos Roof Seals*


----------



## chris2.0tdsg (Nov 29, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael, could you spell out the chemical indications on both A1 and A2?
as a chemist i would like to try to confirm this,
thanks & happy Xmas
chris


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (chris2.0tdsg)*

Hi Chris:
I don't have that information, but I think fellow forum member Wolfsburger Mit Fries did quite a bit of research into the chemical composition of the lubricant, and published his findings on the first page of this discussion. Click here to go directly to the top of page 1 of this discussion.
Michael


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Alright I'm gonna let chris2.0tdsg in the Netherlands, or any other chemist (I think there's 1 more in here) do the legwork on interpreting the MSDS sheets, because I'm busy in my business and don't have time to try to track down CAS numbers and their common names at this point in time.
Here's the first VW Krytox number (G 052 172 A1) and the one in the Eos owners manual. Its the liquid, and no surprise...its 100% Krytox.








Here's the aerosol spray (G 052 172 A2). What we are looking for is the absence of silicone. If you look at the ingredients, its only 5-7 percent Krytox by weight, but because Krytox is so dense, it would be an even lower percentage by volume. There's obviously propellants in there, but I want to know what the other ingredents represent. This might be the easiest product to apply, but I feel that its far too low in Krytox content, at least for my satisfaction.








Finally there is the grease (G 060 172 A3). Looks like roughly 80% Krytox with 20% Teflon as a thickening agent. Which would make it the equivalent of Krytox 200 series, i.e. GPL-205.








Once I get some input from one our chemists, I'm going to edit the information into the top/key post.



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 7:09 PM 12-27-2006_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Thanks a lot for posting those MSDS sheets, Wolfsburger. I'm not a chemist by any means, but I did look up 1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane on Wikipedia, and it appears to be nothing more than just the propellant to get the stuff out of the aerosol can (for the part with the A2 suffix). 1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane is also commonly known as R 134a, the R being an abbreviation for 'refrigerant'.
Michael


----------



## Bef (Nov 20, 2005)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

The liquid is pure krytox... The aerosol product contains only krytox and a few propellants, which aren't going to affect the performance of the krytox. The grease is krytox and teflon, which again, won't affect the performance of the krytox. The chemicals contained in all of these formulations are only there to aid in the delivery of the krytox to whatever application you are using it for. So, really, when it comes down to which formulation you should be using, it all depends on personal preference.
(Friendly Neighborhood Chemist #2)


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Bef)*

Bef:
Thanks a ton for your expert wisdom. Can you give any advice concerning what the 'price per unit of measure' ratio should be for the three different forms of packaging?
What I am getting at is this: The first packaging unit - the liquid in the bottle (part number suffix *A1*) is 100% 'pure beef', so to speak. The second packaging unit is only 20% 'beef' by weight - the rest of the content is of no value to the purchaser.
So, if we assign a nominal value to packaging unit 1 of _x_ , what price should we pay for packaging unit two (part number suffix *A2*) and packaging unit three (part number suffix *A3*), expressed as a percentage of _x_ ?
I don't think I have expressed this question as lucidly as possible, but I think you get my drift.
Michael


----------



## ccl (Nov 28, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

First of all, Bef is right, in the liquid, the biggest part is just delivery medium and propellant. The active component,that will adhere to the seals and provide protection and lubrication for a longer time is the fuorinated wax with cas nr. 60164-51-4.
From that perspective, both products are similar in that sense, that the components are non-silicone and inert. If i am not mistaken, there has been some discussion on UV protection? Well, there is no UV absorber present as judged from the MSDS, nor will fluorinated alifactic compounds like the grease or the propellants absorb UV light.
Froma value perspective, in the liquid is max 7% wax, in the grease there is a minimum of 80%, so the "value content" of the grease is 80/7 = at least 11 times higher. 
However, in this calculation it is assumed that the resulting protective film of both application methods will have the same final thickness.
chris


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (ccl)*

There has been an update newsletter from DuPont dealing with 100 series Krytox oils, specifically comparing the friction coefficient and durability of the auto industry standard GPL105 to lighter viscosity GPL104 and GPL103 versions. The top post also now contains this link.

http://www2.dupont.com/Lubrica...2.pdf


----------



## maxdot (Dec 17, 2006)

I've just had a reply to my email to gbr re Krytox availability in the UK. After the 2oz tubes (GB£16.70 ex works ex VAT), they can supply 8oz tubes (GB£58 ex works ex VAT) though they thought that might be rather too large a quantity. In addition they can supply 30ml of oil in an applicator bottle with felt wick (105?) for GB£30.00 ex works ex VAT.
Happy new year to all
Max


----------



## GurnyGub (Nov 21, 2006)

If VW are advising we apply after each wash, 8oz doesn't sound too much to me. I have'nt even got my car yet ( inside 2weeks I hope ) and Krytox know their stuff, I'm sure, but used regularly around all those seals the 2oz just sounds titchy. Regular users will advise I hope.


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (GurnyGub)*

I Krytox'd the weatherstripping on our mini van (2000 Odyssey) to try and repair a wind noise around the driver window. I was pleased with the way the Krytox revitalized the weatherstripping so I did the entire van. 2 doors, 2 sliding doors, and the rear hatch. 
I estimate I used about 1/3 of my 8 oz. tube of GPL205 to do the entire van.
See post Krytox Story
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3001055
Kevin


----------



## voiture (Aug 21, 2006)

*Roof squeaks*

How about pure and simple vaseline? My roof was making a lot of squeaks (where the moonroof glass connects to the roof) on bumpy roads. Took it to the dealer to apply the vw product. It improved only very slightly. I applied a very thin coat of vaseline and the roof is now silent! $1.50 for 49g. As you all know vaseline is used as a skin protectant and is 100% pure petroleum jelly. Any contraindications or advice against using it from our technical experts out there? Thank you.


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Roof squeaks (voiture)*


_Quote, originally posted by *voiture* »_Any contraindications or advice against using it from our technical experts out there? Thank you.


Yeah big time. Vaseline might make things quiet in the short term, but the Eos was delayed due to a wind noise problem, and that was corrected by putting a coating on the weatherstrip. Petroleum based products can cause the coating to delaminate, or the seals themselves to become spongy because petroleum based products have a solvent characteristic and attack the seals, whereas Krytox is completely inert. Its very simply Krytox or nothing. If you look at all the other links in the top posts, notice Krytox is not an exclusive Eos thing. There's borrowed links and data from Corvette, Cadillac Allante, Plymouth Prowler forums, and my original source for the 3 VW part numbers was a German Beetle convertible forum. 
I've added a new link to the top post for a Dupont pdf newsletter, and it appears that new test data shows thinner/lower viscosity Krytox GPL104 or GPL103 has a lower coefficient of friction and may perform better than the auto industry standard GPL105. The only tradeoff appears to be a POSSIBILITY of faster 'evaporation' due to its higher volatility (its really slow anyway) meaning more frequent applications. Link repeated below.
http://www2.dupont.com/Lubrica...2.pdf
If you put Vaseline on your seals, I'd run, not walk, out to your Eos with a quickness not seen for 3 generations, and get it off the seals immediately.



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 9:26 PM 1-3-2007_


----------



## voiture (Aug 21, 2006)

*Re: Roof squeaks (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Thanks for your prompt reply. I wiped it off. The problem is that the service dept doesn't know anything about Krytox especially annoying since, as you know, the technician has to report every problem with the Eos to the vw techline? Now should I bug them about that? I am supposed to go back when a part for the front speaker (has to do with the bass problem) arrives from Germany?


----------



## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Roof squeaks (voiture)*

The 'Part' is a s/w upgrade. Hey that make 3.5 Bay area EOS owners in this forum.... (I count myself as 3.5 since mine is still in transit). Sounds like we should organize a get together.


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Roof squeaks (voiture)*

Show them the owners manual, PanEuropean was kind enough to provide a picture so we all have instant access to correct information. 
If you have a reasonable (meaning receptive) service manager, I would politely try to impress upon him the importance of understanding the Krytox issue. I feel its an essential part of Eos ownership, and the service end of the VW dealer has a responsibility to their customers to know about this.


----------



## voiture (Aug 21, 2006)

*Re: Roof squeaks (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Hopefully that's the products they used but I will double check soon. Many thanks again. Other than that I love the car. I drove a Volvo C70 convertible for 7 years. Night and day...


----------



## voiture (Aug 21, 2006)

*Re: Roof squeaks (mark_d_drake)*

You won't be disappointed. It's a great car and I got so many comments already e.g. what is it? I love the color! and the oh my God factor when the roof retracts.


----------



## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: Roof squeaks (voiture)*

I want to echo the concern about the lack of knowledge at some VW dealers. My dealer's parts department suggested any silicon-based lubricant (something that's been discussed previously here and rejected) and the service department just told me that the car is suppose to have squeaks "...because of the B Pillar" in a convertible. While I don't expect the dealer to know the local Krytox supplier, I'd at least expect them to be flogging the appropriate VW tube of Krytox.
Here's something to think about. My dealership likes to provide a free car wash when the vehicle has been in for service, and did so today. Given the lack of knowledge about this subject that they've shown to me, what do you think the odds are that they followed the instructions in the manual and applied Krytox after the car wash?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Roof squeaks (voiture)*


_Quote, originally posted by *voiture* »_How about pure and simple vaseline? ... I applied a very thin coat of vaseline and the roof is now silent!

My guess is that the Vaseline solved that particular problem simply because it is a thick substance that bridged tiny gaps. In other words, you could have got the same result with axle grease or pork fat. I don't think it is a good idea 'in principle' to use a thick lubricant in any environment at all that is not totally sealed, such as an axle or bearing. This is because the thick lubricant will collect and retain contaminants (dust, debris) and the contaminants will cause problems in the long term.
Of greater concern is the issue of using a petroleum based lubricant (Vaseline) on a synthetic seal when the manufacturer has specified that they want an inert lubricant used for that seal.
Michael


----------



## eosgurl (Aug 3, 2006)

I purchased Krytox from my local GM dealership for on $45 for an ounce. It is the liquid form. I will be applying it this weekend. I am having a lot of wind noise and hopefully this will help.


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (eosgurl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eosgurl* »_I purchased Krytox from my local GM dealership for on $45 for an ounce. It is the liquid form. I will be applying it this weekend. I am having a lot of wind noise and hopefully this will help. 

Let me know what it is like to apply (i.e. real easy, tended to drip a lot, etc.) I used the Krytox grease and would like to hear how applying the liquid product goes.
Thanks
Kevin


----------



## swordfish1 (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: (just4fun)*

I had my roof serviced today. This was classed as an official product recall. I believe it is to check on the earlier roofs on cars. I asked the Eos specialist (every dealer should have one) about the care and maintenance of the roof seals.
He checked with VW UK as I had mentioned about this site, so he obviously didn't want to provide me with wrong information as I said I was a user on here.
As previously posted, this is the product to be used








It costs £20 + VAT here. They gave me this can after the roof servicing and it seems fairly full, so I'm guessing not a great deal of it is used each time. 
When I think of how much I spend on polishes etc, I suppose £20 every so often isn't going to break the bank!


----------



## hulahoops (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (swordfish1)*

Thanks for the details Dave. My dealer seems to be clueless about this. BTW how long was it between delivery and the letter which you received from VW? Just wondering when I should expect mine.
Thanks
Simon
p.s still loving my eos







...


----------



## swordfish1 (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: (hulahoops)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hulahoops* »_Thanks for the details Dave. My dealer seems to be clueless about this. BTW how long was it between delivery and the letter which you received from VW? Just wondering when I should expect mine.
Thanks
Simon
p.s still loving my eos







...


I got my car in July, received the letter in the 3rd week of December. 
After talking to the servicing centre, they are also slightly in the dark as to the servicing of the roof. The questionairre I filled in also had spaces for questions and remarks for the dealership. My centre told me they had asked on a previous one whether the roof had to be re-lubricated, re-lubricated and seals checked, re-lubricated seals checked and all motors checked/wires tensioned etc on a service. I also noticed that there were no prices up in the dealership for servicing costs.


----------



## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

Now finally in freezing condition my driver window is sometimes not dropping at all when the door is opened becasue of ice along the window seal at the bottom of the glass or other freezing issues withing the door. Secondly the window may drop the little bit to clear the seal and then not rise when the door is closed leaving s small air space. Requiring that the window be closed woith the key or switch depending on whether I am out of the car or in the car respectively.
So my question is: to help the aspects of this related to freezing should I apply krytox grease to the window pinch seals along the bottom of the window or will it just smear along the window glass?
The post from Michaeal showing an owners manual page indicating that Krytox will help prevent seals from freezing is good but it doesn't specifically identify these seals and another post indicates that they might already have Krytox embedded in them.
Paul


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (Grinder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Grinder* »_another post indicates that they might already have Krytox embedded in them.
Paul

If I may be direct...I read that post presenting the idea that the seals/weatherstrip "might already have Krytox embedded in them" and my initial reaction was that's obviously a lie. The Eos weatherstrip has (what I'll call) a wind noise coating applied to them, which would effectively be a thin layer applied to the surface. If the weatherstrip itself had Krytox within the structure of the rubber weatherstrip core, it would cause the wind noise coating to fail and delaminate from the weatherstrip in a hurry, You probably wouldn't be able to coat anything with Krytox "embedded" in it to begin with. Sounds like a classic case of someone having smoke blown up their ass.


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_
If I may be direct...I read that post presenting the idea that the seals/weatherstrip "might already have Krytox embedded in them" and my initial reaction was that's obviously a lie. 


You certainly have the right to be direct, but you should check the details before making said direct comments.
When I spoke to the Krytox rep he told me most WINDOW SEALS have Krytox added to the seal material during the manufacturing process.
Therefore WINDOW SEALS generally do not require application of Krytox, or any other lubricant/protectant, for maintenance.
This has nothing to do with the special seal material VW developed for the CSC roof.
Kevin

_Modified by just4fun at 10:45 AM 1-9-2007_


_Modified by just4fun at 10:48 AM 1-9-2007_


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_
When I spoke to the Krytox rep he told me most WINDOW SEALS have Krytox added to the seal material during the manufacturing process.


I would absolutely love to see documentation of that. In all the Dupont pdfs I've read, and all the worldwide forums I've searched, (and everyone at this point should know that I've researched it), I've never heard that. 


_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 2:41 PM 1-9-2007_


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (Grinder)*

Paul,
I was the one that posted the comment about Krytox being blended into window seal material during the manufacturing process.
During my discussion with the Krytox distributor he made the following comment. This is not a direct quote, but sums up his response to my inquiry about using Krytox on roof seals and weatherstripping:
*"We sell a considerable amount of Krytox to owners of retractable hard tops for roof seal maintenance, some buyers also use it for routine maintenance of weatherstripping around doors, however it is not necessary to treat window seals because krytox is commonly blended into the seal material during the manufacturing process".*
I can't answer whether or not VW specifically uses WINDOW seals that are blended with krytox.
If anyone would like further information you can contact Sean to discuss it. The contact info can be found on the following thread
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2985944
I believe in my original post I may have incorrectly used the term "imbedded" which would suggest the krytox is added to the seal material after it is manufactured. If this incorrect verbage caused any confusion I appologize.
To answer your question about smudging if you use the krytox on your window seals. I treated the window seals on my van a couple weeks ago and there is no smudging problem. HOWEVER, if the bottom seal has a fairly tight contact to the window, the results could be different vehicle to vehicle.
The Krytox tends to absorb into the seal material if you work it a bit, and leaves only a thin film, rather than a coating. (keep in mind the seals in my van are 7 years old and may have been a bit dry)
Not sure whether or not lubricating the seals will be enough to cure the freezing problem in our winter environment. I'm thinking very careful removal of snow along the bottom edge of the window so it can't melt and freeze may be a more effective solution. Although in certain conditions this may not always be possible (wet snow, freezing rain, etc.)
Is it possible the EOS is not well suited as an all year driver in harsh winter environments??
Kevin








Last minute update:
During a seperate discussion flheat provided the following information out of the EOS owners manual. Apparently VW recommends Silicone for all non-CSC seals.
_flheat_
Although the manual does permit automatic carwashes, I think it is meant to exclude "powerwash" or touchless car washes. In the following section it specifically says "NEVER USE A POWER WASHER ON THE CAR". Incidentially, it recommends putting silicone on all NON CSC rubber parts...that may save some money on the Krytox.
Check the owners manual to confirm.








_Modified by just4fun at 11:52 AM 1-9-2007_


_Modified by just4fun at 11:55 AM 1-9-2007_


----------



## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: (just4fun)*

thank you for the feedback. Kevin, I used your link and have started the order process of the Krytox







. It seems they are out of stock in the 8 oz grease right now. I spoke with Rene and he had no info on window seals. 
The way the sun hits my car there seems to be a ridge of ice that forms along the lower seal as the sun melts snow on the glass and then it eventually refreezes. My scraper is inside the car so I have to open the door to get it. I don't like being agressive with the scraper near the rubber seals, but I guess with practice.
I now see Kevins silicone update.
Paul

_Modified by Grinder at 7:05 PM 1-9-2007_


_Modified by Grinder at 7:06 PM 1-9-2007_


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

*


WolfsburgerMitFries said:



I would absolutely love to see documentation of that. In all the Dupont pdfs I've read, and all the worldwide forums I've searched, (and everyone at this point should know that I've researched it), I've never heard that.

Click to expand...

*


WolfsburgerMitFries said:


> > I too researched the Dupont website thouroghly and agree, this is not stated in any of their documentation.
> > The information I received was provided verbally by the distributor. I'm not swearing on a stack of bibles he is correct, but also have no reason, at this point, to believe he was "blowing smoke up my ass" either.
> > The distributor would be aware of who their customers are, and is likely familar with how many of those customers utililize the products. I suspect this is where the comment originates.
> > Please feel free to contact the distributor to satisfy your curiosity. The intent of the forum is to provide accurate information and dispell myth, if I have been misinformed I would like to be aware of such.
> > ...


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (Grinder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Grinder* »_ I spoke with Rene and he had no info on window seals. 

Paul

_Modified by Grinder at 7:05 PM 1-9-2007_

_Modified by Grinder at 7:06 PM 1-9-2007_

I think you would need to speak directly to Sean if you are interested in following up on the window seals, he seems to be their Krytox "specialist"
Kevin


----------



## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: (Grinder)*

Paul, when I ordered Krytox (8 oz grease) from them last week, they indicated that it should be in stock in about 4 weeks. If you ordered it this week, I'm guessing that it should be in by the end of the month.


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (Grinder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Grinder* »_
I now see Kevins silicone update.
Paul

_Modified by Grinder at 7:05 PM 1-9-2007_

_Modified by Grinder at 7:06 PM 1-9-2007_

FYI,
Duponts website has information that states:
*O-Ring/Plastic/Rubber Lubricants*
"Krytox lubricants for seals and gaskets material do not cause cracking or swelling and are compatible with all plastic and synthetic rubber material".
Therefore Krytox is probably OK to use on the window seals, however based on cost, and the recommendation of the owners manual, you can reach your own conclusion which product is best to use.
additional information on my experience
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3001055


----------



## GurnyGub (Nov 21, 2006)

Years ago Schlegel, a German firm with a plant in Ireland, used to make seals for many carmakers, maybe nosing around in that direction might help.
John


----------



## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: (GurnyGub)*

I thought that there was a thread about a few relavent products by this company by Wolfsburgermitfries but I was not able to find it and google was not my friend on this. Still early to see but I don't think that it is just ice in the window. I will probably talk to my dealer and see if he canad some lubricant to make the window mechainsm more resistant to freezing. Would anyone suggest that I just spray Silicone lube downwards between the window seal and the door?


----------



## Hotmoose (Aug 31, 2006)

*Re: (Grinder)*

I use on all my seal of my EOS. The reason is simple. I paid 50K (CAD) sor the car. I dont want to use cheap silicone base for my door seals. I use krytox all over the place. Cost of krytox is high, but you need just a little to do the car. An 8 ounce tube at 150$ wouls last at least 3 years. I can blow 150$ in a bar within an hour......Food for thought anyway

Silver essence / Luxury / DSG


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (Grinder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Grinder* »_ Still early to see but I don't think that it is just ice in the window. I will probably talk to my dealer and see if he canad some lubricant to make the window mechainsm more resistant to freezing. Would anyone suggest that I just spray Silicone lube downwards between the window seal and the door?

Paul,
Hard for us to give direct advice when we can't see the exact problem you're having, but I gather you believe the problem may, in addition to freezing on the window, also include something affecting the actual window lift mechanism.
I would suggest if you think lubricating the mechanism may help the problem, it should be done by removing the door panel and lubricating specific areas on the mechanism, rather than spraying copious quantities of silicone spray between the seal and the window and hoping it ends up where it is needed.
Possibly a dealer tech task, just to be on the safe side?
Kevin










_Modified by just4fun at 2:15 PM 1-10-2007_


----------



## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_
it should be done by removing the door panel and lubricating specific areas on the mechanism, rather than spraying copious quantities of silicone spray between the seal and the window and hoping it ends up where it is needed.


Kevin I wil take your advice liberally.








Paul


----------



## Speedster356 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Are we supposed to lubricate the areas highlighted I red?
If yes, how are we supposed to do it? These rubbers are not accessible by simply opening the sunroof. What should we do?


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (Speedster356)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Speedster356* »_Are we supposed to lubricate the areas highlighted I red?
If yes, how are we supposed to do it? These rubbers are not accessible by simply opening the sunroof. What should we do

Somewhere (on this post I believe) it says to partially open the roof to expose the seals for access. But it may be best if someone who has actually had the experience of lubricating the roof seals provide some detail for you.
Kevin


----------



## Speedster356 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: (just4fun)*

The manual actually says you are not supposed to do that!
Also, take note that if you do that, the roof will automatically engage after 8 minutes and assume a position of low CG (balance)!


----------



## theothereos (Oct 9, 2006)

*Re: (just4fun)*

For what it is worth, I have partially opened the roof and lubricated all seals without issue. Note, I do this quickly and try to keep roof in a "level" position when in partial open state.
Also, after using product a few times (after hand washing) I'm finding I need to use it less often.


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (theothereos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theothereos* »_Product is not on the website, but you can contact Darrel via e-mail ([email protected]) or phone +1 650 595 1112
GPL 205 prices are as follows:

2 ounce tube: $29.00 each
8 ounce tube: $88.40 each
0.8Kg Cartridge: $244.25 Each
Various containers per Kilogram: $290.00 each


I don't know if we can bring the price down or not, but has anybody considered a *group buy*? Say perhaps a case of 8oz tubes?
I would probably want to go ahead and get an 8oz tube of the grease (assuming that my dealer doesn't up and give me some, but they aren't that customer friendly so far)
William


----------



## hulahoops (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (swordfish1)*

Latest prices from VW UK retailer (incl. VAT):
G 060 172 A3 special lubricating paste 30ml £78.90
G 052 172 A2 special lubricant aerosol 100ml £41.35
Simon


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (hulahoops)*

Wow! I think the Canadian Dollar trades somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.5 to 1 against the British Pound. That would mean the 30ml paste would be nearly $200.00 in Canuck Bucks.
The 8oz. (240ml) tube I purchased direct from the distributor cost $141.25, tax and courier included. 
On a per oz. basis, that makes the UK price from VW about 11 times more costly.
I think someone already posted UK prices from your distributor, but how does VW's price compare to pricing direct from the distributor.
Kevin


----------



## bjorngra (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: (hulahoops)*

I brought de lubricant on in october and used the whole 100ml! It's now februari and I have to order a new one, because the white spots are coming back. The stuff is working but it's too expensive. So I have to buy every three months a spray for 45,- euro's!!!! 
I brought it on with the roof half opened, so that I could reach every seal. I've done every roofseal and after that the spray was empty. It's for one time to use. 
It say's Long lasting! Is three months long lasting??
But it's a great car!!


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (bjorngra)*

You should check and see if there is a Dupont Krytox distributor in Netherlands, or somewhere close in the EU.
I have found pricing direct from the distributor to be the the lowest.
Canadian pricing for comparison is found here
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2985944
Kevin


----------



## chris2.0tdsg (Nov 29, 2006)

*Re: (just4fun)*

The DuPont distributor for Holland is:
Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg:
Mavom bv 
Handelsweg 6 
NL-2404 CD Alphen aan den Rijn 
Netherlands 
Phone: +31 172 43 63 61 
Fax: +31 172 42 03 10 
Web site: http://www.mavom.nl 
Bjorn i did not contact them yet as my Eos is due after next week or so, but i will do that by then.
Update 12:20 today. 
Just called with the distributir and they sell the Krytox GPL 105 to the Citroen importer in Holland, which they use for the C2 roofs.
Pon (importer VW in Netherlands) does not buy this (yet) according to him.
Prices: Krytox GPL 105 oil (spray) € 11,- exc. vat.
Krytox GPL 205, Paste, 2 ounce (57 g): € 50,- excl vat.
They do not sell to private persons, so one should check with the technical wholesaler in their area, or go to the Citroen dealer.
Alternatively, we as owners, could ask Pon to buy the stuff for their dealers, but i guess if they can make s...loads of €€€€ on the VW stuff they might not do this. The importer also remarked that :"...communication with Pon is not always easy......"
I am going to check Bus Handelsmaatschappij in Groningen in a moment.

Chris




_Modified by chris2.0tdsg at 4:13 AM 2-5-2007_


----------



## trampdog (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: (hulahoops)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hulahoops* »_Latest prices from VW UK retailer (incl. VAT):
G 060 172 A3 special lubricating paste 30ml £78.90
G 052 172 A2 special lubricant aerosol 100ml £41.35
Simon

Hi, to all you Brits, I have just purchased from GBR Technology Limited
telephone 0118 9820590
http://www.gbrtech.co.uk
Krytox GPL 105 30ML (liquid) £18.80 (in VAT)
Krytox GPL 205 Grease 2oz tube £19.62 (in VAT)
Paul..


----------



## pjgraham86 (Aug 10, 2006)

Hi Paul and fellow Brits - I also bought from GBR Tech - very prompt and very helpful - Alan at GBR advised cleaning seals with methylated spirits and allowing to dry before applying Krytox.
Peter


----------



## just4fun_ (Jan 23, 2007)

*Re: (pjgraham86)*

Are you certain Alan is aware that the EOS roof seals are a special material?
If he is thinking they are a standard rubber type like neoprene, butyl, or EDPL (EPDL?) then recommending a methylated cleaning solution may be pretty standard.
I would recommend caution using any product on these seals without first checking with VW.
Kevin










_Modified by just4fun_ at 9:57 AM 2-6-2007_


----------



## pjgraham86 (Aug 10, 2006)

Fair comment Kevin.
I may just wipe seals down, make sure they are dry and apply the Krytox.
Peter


----------



## trampdog (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: (pjgraham86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pjgraham86* »_Hi Paul and fellow Brits - I also bought from GBR Tech - very prompt and very helpful - Alan at GBR advised cleaning seals with methylated spirits and allowing to dry before applying Krytox.
Peter

Hi Peter, I think it was you that recomended GBR on another forum, so thanks for doing all the leg work.
Paul..


----------



## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*First time using Krytox*

I finally received my Krytox on Monday, and took the lunch hour today to try it out.
First, thanks to everyone on this forum for pointing out the importance of this maintenance activity, for determining what the underlying product is (to save on VW markup), especially for recommending the grease over the liquid, and for finding a Canadian distributor of Krytox.
I purchased the 8oz grease for $138 inc. shipping. At that price, car washes are suddenly becoming an expensive proposition. First thought - invest in a car cover to keep the dust off while parked in my underground garage. After wiping down the seals, this again seemed like good advice. If it saves me one car wash a year, it will be worth it.
Read the manual...I'm still not exactly sure where the "rear deck" is but I hit every seal I could find so I figure I found it at some point.







Opened the roof as instructed, and while you still don't have access to every inch of every seal surface it's better than if you had to do this with the roof closed. I presume that the roof position is a known maintenance position and nothing tries to close while in the partially-opened position.
Second learning from today - buy a decent cloth to clean the seals. The handy rag I had did not fit the bill and left some dust and lint on the seals. So cleaning the seals with water (no soap) took some time. I didn't really dry the seals since I wiped down the entire car first - the seals were reasonably dry by time I went to lubricate them.
The seals seemed pretty soft to me - not that I know what a hardened seal would feel like, though. It seemed a little pointless to lubricate them, but then preventative maintenance is the point of this exercise. I decided I'd go easy on the grease since the seals didn't really need it. No white spots on the seals! That's good news and one less reason for me to lubricate them regularly. Some were rather dirty though since they hadn't been cleaned since purchase.
The grease seemed to apply easily enough. Small dabs seemed to cover large portions of seal (keeping in mind I was trying to conserve). I didn't feel the need to massage it into the seal since the seal was soft and (hopefully) absorbant already. I didn't dry off the surface as suggested in this forum (the manual suggests drying the liquid Krytox). Now if this grease came with a little makeup-kit applicator....







At least my index finger now is soft and supple and won't crack in cold weather.
Had a warning from the vehicle as I was working on the forward roof seal on the driver's side. "Temp. too warm conv. top". It stayed on for about 60 seconds, then disappeared. Did I rub a sensor the wrong way? The good news is that nothing happened...kinda curious if anyone else had seen this error message.
Time to completion: 50 minutes. That's a long time for me (as I really don't care to work on my vehicle in any way, shape, or form) so I hope the time invested pays off. I can't wait for my nephew to be tall enough to do this for me.







Perhaps it will go faster as I perform the work more often.
So, I'm sure I made some errors in the process (feel free to point them out; no offense taken) but overall I'd recommend the Krytox grease, maybe once every other car wash (once a month?) depending upon your preference. I'm guessing that I have enough for six applications to all seals (including the small amount of window seal not highlighted in the manual, and the rear trunk seal), so about $20-$25 per application.
One kinda-obvious note. If you're not seeing problems with your seals, and you're leasing your vehicle or intend to sell it early on, I'm not sure how important this bit of maintenance will be. Given how soft the seals were after six months, I'd need convincing that the seals would harden and crack after four years. Time will tell I guess. Indoor vs. outdoor storage may have a significant impact on that decision.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: First time using Krytox (neweosowner)*

Good post Arylnn, Thanks
One quick comment, and this is strictly a guess at this point; it is possible that lubricating the seals also serves to keep them "moist" in order to assist in the actual sealing function, in addition to preventing eventual drying out of the seal material.
Kevin


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (pjgraham86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pjgraham86* »_Hi Paul and fellow Brits - I also bought from GBR Tech - very prompt and very helpful - Alan at GBR advised cleaning seals with methylated spirits and allowing to dry before applying Krytox.
Peter

Did a little more checking after I got home. Some methylated spirits contain Methanol (hence the name) which will dry out many types of rubber seals, gaskets, etc.
Therefore I would definitely suggest caution using this type of product without first confirming compatibility with the seals.
Here is the Wikpedia link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylated_spirit
Kevin










_Modified by just4fun at 7:31 PM 2-6-2007_


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (just4fun_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun_* »_
If he is thinking they are a standard rubber type like neoprene, butyl, or EDPL (EPDL?) 

Sorry, that should be EPDM, Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer, a synthetic rubber commonly used in automotive window seals and weatherstripping.
Kevin


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## vweosdriver (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: First time using Krytox (neweosowner)*

Good write-up. Did you apply the Krytox to both the inner and outer sunroof seals? TIA bob


----------



## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: First time using Krytox (vweosdriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vweosdriver* »_Good write-up. Did you apply the Krytox to both the inner and outer sunroof seals? TIA bob

Did I? Yes. Should I have? Don't know. But I figured a seal is a seal and would benefit from some TLC. About the only place I didn't was I found a place in the roof mechanism on the trunk lid which, I think, had some regular grease on it. Obviously I was in the wrong place.


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## bjorngra (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: (chris2.0tdsg)*

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the info. Post some pictures of your car when you got him. I'm curious about your car. Did you chiptuned or lowered it? I will lower him in spring.
Veel succes met je Eos. Het is een tegekke auto. Zeker als je nog een DSG bak hebt,
die was er vorig jaar helaas nog niet. geen moment spijt ervan. Alleen jammer van die rubbers.
Zou de Krytox de couting op de rubbers niet aantasten??
Greetz
Bjorn


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## vweosdriver (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: First time using Krytox (neweosowner)*

Since it was 70 degrees and the sun was shining I greased the sunrooff seals today. Some blue painters' tape was definitely useful.


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## LIEos (Jan 8, 2007)

*Just go my Krytox.*

For everyone's info, I purchased 8oz. tubes of Krytox GPL205 from Miller-Stephenson for about US$90 each.







Miller-Stephenson had them in stock in both 2 and 8 oz. tubes. I think they also carry every other variety under the sun (such as the 105 oil). One 8oz. tube looks like it's going to last a long time (years). I might offer up the second to a lucky buyer...







Now I just have to wait for the temperature to rise high enough so the roof will open!


----------



## gdevitry (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: Just go my Krytox. (LIEos)*

Here is a product that may ease the wallet?
http://www.midwayautosupply.co...rytox
Anybody try this one?
Greg


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Just go my Krytox. (gdevitry)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdevitry* »_Here is a product that may ease the wallet?
http://www.midwayautosupply.co...rytox
Anybody try this one?
Greg

This product appears to be a blend of Silicone and Krytox.
I don't have access to my owners manual yet, but I believe a previous post states that silicone is a definate no go on the roof seals. 
flheat did however post that silicone is recommended for use on all other seals on the EOS (as per the owners manual). So this may be a more cost effective solution for doing the remainder of the car.
Kevin


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## PaulZooms (Dec 16, 2006)

*Re: Just go my Krytox. (LIEos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LIEos* »_For everyone's info, I purchased 8oz. tubes of Krytox GPL205 from Miller-Stephenson for about US$90 each.







Miller-Stephenson had them in stock in both 2 and 8 oz. tubes. I think they also carry every other variety under the sun (such as the 105 oil). One 8oz. tube looks like it's going to last a long time (years). I might offer up the second to a lucky buyer...







Now I just have to wait for the temperature to rise high enough so the roof will open!

LIEos,
Do you have contact info from M-S? I emailed their California Office and they said they did wholesale only. Do the CT or IL offices do retail?
Thanks,


----------



## hulahoops (Aug 27, 2006)

*my first experience of Krytox grease*

I have just used Krytox grease (GPL205) on my EOS for the first time. I applied the grease to all seals apart from the lower door seals taking about 1.5 hours. Not much appears to have gone from my 8oz tube, so should last me a long time. 
Pre-krytoxing: lots of creaking
Post-krytoxing: not one creak...FANTASTICALLY quiet








So, I thought this product was great...until...I washed the car this afternoon. After I finished drying the car with a chamois leather I noticed grease smeared on the paint work in lots of places. It may have been from the sponge catching the outer seals when washing, but I think it is more likely that the chamois leather 'brushed' the grease onto the paintwork, or the corner of the leather swiped the grease from the seal to the paintwork. I have now removed most of the mess by polishing. Has anyone else experienced this. Would this have happened if I had used the VW product described in the manual? I will have to be a lot more careful in the future.
Simon


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: my first experience of Krytox grease (hulahoops)*

Simon:
If you use the VW Krytox lubricant - the liquid stuff with the part number listed in the owner manual - it will come off the paint pretty easy if you get any on the paint when you are applying it.
About 80% of what accidentally gets on the paint will come off with a normal hand wash. This is because the paint is not porous, hence the lubricant doesn't have anything to sink into. The other 20% will come off very easily if you moisten a paper towel with isopropyl alcohol and just go around wiping the residue off the paint. It's a 5 minute job.
Michael


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## LIEos (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: Just go my Krytox. (PaulZooms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PaulZooms* »_
LIEos,
Do you have contact info from M-S? I emailed their California Office and they said they did wholesale only. Do the CT or IL offices do retail?
Thanks,


Oh, I ordered it through the purchasing office in my company. Maybe they don't sell retail. My bad.







They couldn't give you a retail outlet? Well, when I decide to let my second tube go, you're my first customer...


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## hulahoops (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: my first experience of Krytox grease (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Many thanks for the reply. I guess I should have ordered the liquid stuff instead then. 
When I noticed the grease on the paintwork during drying I did try to re-wash the affected areas, but this didn't seems to remove any grease. In fact the grease didn't 'come off' onto the sponge but instead was spread over a greater area. I will try the isopropyl alcohol next time though (...if I can find where to buy it), thanks for the tip. 
Simon


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## Midlife Crisis 2 (Aug 30, 2006)

I had the same problem trying to remove the grease -- all I was doing was spreading the grease to a larger area of the car. I took a bottle of Goo Gone, poured it into a glass jar, and put a small amount of a washcloth. I left it sit for a few minutes, and almost all of the grease wiped away. Warm water and a little vinegar, wiped off with a newspaper, did a super job on the windows. Now I know what to do when I over-apply the Krytox next time.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (Midlife Crisis 2)*

Picked the Eos up yesterday and the first thing I did when I got it home was check the seals. They were completely dry. 
Even though the owners manual recommends treating the seals with special lubricant G 052 172 A1 (Krytox), I noticed that seal lubrication is not listed as a routine service item at any service interval.
It would appear that VW is not instructing the assembly plant to lubricate the seals prior to shipping, nor are they instructing the dealerships to lubricate the seals pre-delivery, or at routine service intervals.
I think it is safe to assume that VW considers this an owner responsibility. Therefore if you request this service performed at your dealership, the expectation would be that you are going to pay for both the product and the labor.
So....I set out to lubricate the seals. I have both Krytox GPL205 (grease) and GPL105 (liquid). Since I had already applied the grease product to the weatherstripping on our van, I decided I wanted to try applying the liquid product on the Eos.
I picked up a few of those 1" disposable foam rubber paint brushes at the dollar store (4 brushes for a buck) thinking they would work well for applying the Krytox. For the most part they worked extremely well, but there were a few areas where you just had to get in there with your fingers to get into the nooks and crannies.
It was fairly cool in the garage, just above freezing actually, so the Krytox was a bit "sticky". For example: it didn't want to soak into the foam brush, it just sort of sat on the surface until I started working it into the seals. Overall, despite the cooler weather, the product applied very easily. I suspect it will apply even better if the Krytox and seals are warmer.
I treated every seal on the car; inner and outer door seals, roof seals, sunroof seals, trunk seal, if it looked like a seal, it got treated. I used about 15 ml (1/2 oz.) of Krytox to treat the entire car, and it took me about 1.25 - 1.5 hours to complete the work. With additional experience, and, considering there is probably no need to do the lower door seals every time, I think it would be reasonable to say that treating the roof seals will take 30-45 minutes. Not something you will likely do after every car wash, as recommended in the manual, but certainly something you could do a few times a year in conjunction with a good wax and interior clean.
Having worked with both the grease and liquid product I can honestly say I have no preference for one over the other. Both are relatively simple to apply. The liquid did drip a few times on me yesterday, but if applying in warmer weather, it may soak into the applicator brush better and drips may be less likely. The grease may have a bit more of a tendency to smear, as per the concern posted above.
I will find out today how difficult the liquid is to get off the glass and painted surfaces when I clean the car up this afternoon.
The chisel shaped end of the foam brush works well for applying Krytox along narrow areas, especially up close to painted surfaces, as seen here on the top windshield seal.








*Turning the brush sideways works well for applying to broader areas of the seal.*








Kevin








IMPORTANT: I Forgot to mention, I noticed on some of the seals, the trunk seal in particular, that there were what appear to be drain holes in certain areas along the botton of the seal channel. If using the GPL205 grease, use caution to avoid clogging these holes with grease.

_Modified by just4fun at 7:56 AM 2-18-2007_


_Modified by just4fun at 9:06 AM 2-18-2007_


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_
It was fairly cool in the garage, just above freezing actually, so the Krytox was a bit "sticky". For example: it didn't want to soak into the foam brush, it just sort of sat on the surface until I started working it into the seals. Overall, despite the cooler weather, the product applied very easily. I suspect it will apply even better if the Krytox and seals are warmer.


There was an auto industry specific newsletter from DuPont comparing the performance of the auto industry standard GPL-105 Krytox oil to thinner viscosity GPL-104 and GPL-103. The newsletter has durability graphs that plot the coefficient of friction over time/cycles. It appears that the thinner viscosity oils offer both a slightly lower initial coefficient of friction, and significantly better performance over time. You'll have to increase the size of this pdf file to at least 200% on the task bar to see the graph clearly.
http://www2.dupont.com/Lubrica...2.pdf
The thinner variants may have a shorter service life before reapplication is necessary, but it should not be a problem if you are treating your seals every 6 months. 
Thinner viscosity Krytox should also apply more easily. GPL-105 is about the consistency of maple syrup so it can be accidentally over-applied because of its thickness, and then run off the weatherstrip creating waste. The thinner GPL-103 or GPL-104 should be more prone to spread/thin out...so you may get more applications or coverage from the thinner Krytox. Also, the thinner versions should soak-in more quickly and deeply which may actually improve durability. Finally thinner versions will apply better in cold climates, so if you live in colder northern areas like Canada, or Scandinavia...you may need a thinner viscosity than someone living in middle earth. At any rate the DuPont newsletter is a good read for anyone interested in Krtyox. 




_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 11:49 AM 2-18-2007_


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## gdevitry (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

A USA dealer for the grease GPL205.
http://www.thtgroup.com/krgpl205gr.html
Krytox GPL205/2 oz $38.00, 2/$66.00 
Krytox GPL205/8 oz $95.00, 2/$180.00
Shipping UPS, only 6.44.


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (gdevitry)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdevitry* »_A USA dealer for the grease GPL205.
http://www.thtgroup.com/krgpl205gr.html
Krytox GPL205/2 oz $38.00, 2/$66.00 
Krytox GPL205/8 oz $95.00, 2/$180.00
Shipping UPS, only 6.44.

Two months ago GPL205 was $29 for a 2oz tube. I'm unhappy to report that the price was recently raised over 30% to meet the new found demand from owners of retractable hardtops. 
I understand inflation, and prices are not stable forever, but a 30+% bump in price is absurd. I believe this forum is pretty much responsible for the price increase as I originally steered everyone to the THT group in the first post and gave competitive price data. I have since removed competitive price information and now, I'll recommend people explore other vendors to spread out the demand.
The Eos owners manual specifically recommends a VW re-labeled product which is GPL-105 Krytox oil, and if you explore the first post, a cheaper repackage of the exact same GPL-105 can be bought from gmpartsdirect. I'd be more inclined to go with that as a result of recent price adjustments, and abandon the THT group.



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 12:52 PM 2-18-2007_


----------



## gdevitry (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

OK but their website sucks... do you have a part number? direct link?
Greg


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (gdevitry)*

All that information is on the 1st (key) post. There's a link, and you can read the part number right on the pictures of the bottle, and its also in the text. I continuously update the top post so its worth looking at for changes from time to time.



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 1:10 PM 2-18-2007_


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## PaulZooms (Dec 16, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_
Two months ago GPL205 was $29 for a 2oz tube. I'm unhappy to report that the price was recently raised over 30% to meet the new found demand from owners of retractable hardtops. 
I understand inflation, and prices are not stable forever, but a 30+% bump in price is absurd. I believe this forum is pretty much responsible for the price increase as I originally steered everyone to the THT group in the first post and gave competitive price data. I have since removed competitive price information and now, I'll recommend people explore other vendors to spread out the demand.
The Eos owners manual specifically recommends a VW re-labeled product which is GPL-105 Krytox oil, and if you explore the first post, a cheaper repackage of the exact same GPL-105 can be bought from gmpartsdirect. I'd be more inclined to go with that as a result of recent price adjustments, and abandon the THT group.

_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 12:52 PM 2-18-2007_

GM Parts Direct has none in stock. I placed and order there about 1/15 and it was cancelled about 2/14 - "backordered - no expected date". I placed an order on THT, and they epect a delivery of GPS205 8 oz. next week.
Have to agree about the price increases - but still WAY cheaper than @ VW - $95 ish for 2oz GPL 105!!


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (PaulZooms)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PaulZooms* »_
GM Parts Direct has none in stock. I placed and order there about 1/15 and it was cancelled about 2/14 - "backordered - no expected date". 

I hate to hear that. PanEuropean is supposed to be writing an extensive post on dealing with and controlling roof seal leakage issues. I might wait to see what he has to say before buying any variety of Krytox, I hope his post will be soon.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Buy the liquid Krytox, using the part number specified in the owner manual, no question about it. You can fully lubricate every single seal on the driest Eos you could find on the planet with only a half a bottle of the liquid stuff.
I promise I will get that post finished within 24 hours - in the last two days, I have driven 1,500 miles (Toronto - Detroit - Chicago - Detroit), and i am going to stop at VW in Detroit tomorrow morning to get them to proofread my post to make sure there are no errors in it before I post it.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

As promised, I have made a detailed post about how to lubricate Eos roof seals at this link: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks. To keep all the discussion in one place, and to save new members from having to read through the first four pages of this thread to get this far, I have locked up this (original) thread.
This is not meant to stifle discussion, only for organizational purposes, to keep everything in one place. I have provided links back to this thread in the new one so that all the information that has been presented here will not be lost.
Michael


----------



## nikak (May 30, 2007)

*Krytox question*

In some earlier thread, i had read that 1stVWParts are selling Krytox for approximately $40. Though i cannot find the product on their on-line catalogue. I wonder if someone knows whether they are really selling it or not. Thanks


----------



## Zazou1 (Apr 10, 2007)

They are, but you will have to look it up by part number, which is G 052 172 A1.
https://www.1stvwparts.com/partscat.html


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (Zazou1)*

Here is their listing...the only cheaper alternative is to buy it by the 1lb. bottle as Dupont Krytox (for over $100 for a big bottle) or larger.
Item Number MSRP Core Price
G052172A1 $51.12 $0.00 $37.42
I bought one from 1stVWParts.com (before VW changed the wholesale price) and paid around $52 (while other VW dealers were charging $70-80)
I also bought a big 1lb bottle of Dupont Krytox elsewhere (size of a bottled soda, but heavier), but I won't need it for a while, unless I start coating all of our VWs.
S&H is calculated after the order, and they reserve the right to change prices (







), but I haven't seen it happen, and they would probably only do it if VW changed something, and then I bet they would try to contact you. They have a policy on internet sales to charge 20% over cost, so they *do* have an _honest_ guideline.
William


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## nikak (May 30, 2007)

Zazou and kghia, thanks very much


----------



## nikak (May 30, 2007)

*Re: (kghia)*

Would you happen to know where i could buy the 1lb bottle online?


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (nikak)*

I'm not sure what sizes they have now-- I think that the 1lb was older stock (although it doesn't spoil), and 1kg (twice as much) may be the norm now, or perhaps .5 kg if you are lucky.
Really, that size bottle is probably overkill-- I haven't used up the small bottle from VW yet.
There is a FULL discussion here, and a little down the page you can find info for THTgroop company
I'm convinced that Dupont Krytox is *exactly the same*, as evidenced by an identical Material Safety Data number-- I'm also convinced that it is WAY more Krytox that most people really need (at least within the next few years







)
One thing to note: VW has lowered its price on Krytox, presumably to increased owner satisfaction. The *other place* has raised its prices (some have suggested _to cash in on the increase in demand/popularity of the product_







)
William


_Modified by kghia at 8:24 AM 7-6-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (kghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kghia* »_I'm convinced that Dupont Krytox is *exactly the same*, as evidenced by an identical Material Safety Data number...

William:
The fact that the VW product that is specified for use when lubricating Eos roofs (VW part number G 052 172 A1) and whatever it is that you bought one pound of have an identical number (CAS number?) is no assurance at all that they are the same thing. Have a look at this website: Chemical Abstracts Service Registry Number, especially the sentence that reads: *Key point: *_CAS numbers identify the chemical, but not its concentration or specific mixture. For example, hydrogen chloride (HCl) has the CAS number 7647-01-0. That CAS number will appear on containers of anhydrous hydrogen chloride, a 20% solution of HCl in water, and a 2.0 molar solution of HCl in diethyl ether._ 
We've already been around this substitution issue before - one Eos owner encountered problems because he used a Krytox product, but in the wrong carrier base - and I don't think it benefits anyone to muddy the waters. We got the price reduced, you can buy what basically amounts to a year's supply of the stuff for less than $50. Is it really worth the risk of screwing up to experiment with substitutes?
Michael
*Various Krytox Products, none of which are the ones specified by VW.*


_Modified by PanEuropean at 9:51 PM 7-7-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

*This is the product that VW specifies:*


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
The fact that the VW product that is specified for use when lubricating Eos roofs (VW part number G 052 172 A1) and whatever it is that you bought one pound of have an identical number (CAS number?) is no assurance at all that they are the same thing.


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_We've already been around this substitution issue before - one Eos owner encountered problems because he used a Krytox product, but in the wrong carrier base - and I don't think it benefits anyone to muddy the waters.

I expect that you are referring to the Krytox in a paste, thickened with Teflon? The issues there were related to it being a paste, and hard to wipe up I think. BTW, there is also a *VW part number for the paste-- G 060 172.A3*
That is why I went with Krytox oil and nothing else. When it is only 100% Krytox, there is no issue about a base carrier. The Krytox GPL105 is 100% Krytox, which doesn't leave much room for variation. (corrected image for MSDS VW G052 172 A1)








and this is cut-and-pasted from the MSDS sheet (pdf) for the Dupont Krytox GPL105:








I know that many people will feel more comfortable using VW-branded oil. They should check out dealerships such as at 1stVWParts.com. I myself bought a bottle there.
But unless you can explain how 100% Krytox <> 100% Krytox, then I would say *you* are "muddying the waters" by spreading baseless fears around non-VW equivalents.
There are anti-competitive laws that prohibit VW from requiring use of a product by brand name-- exact equivalents should be fine. (*not products containing silicon of course*)
So far, I have been using my VW-brand Krytox, but at *100% Krytox* in each bottle, I won't have a problem refilling from the 1lb Dupont Krytox.
William
_edit: I corrected the image-- the other image was the MSDS for VW's aerosol, G 052 172 A2, which is NOT 100% Krytox, as it also contains propellants as a spray.
The full discussion with all of the images and comparisons may be found archived as
Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with DuPont Krytox Lubricant_



_Modified by kghia at 12:06 PM 7-8-2007_


----------



## shorenuf (May 4, 2007)

*Why not go right to the source?*

For more information or technical assistance, call:
or visit us on the Web:
(800) 424-7502
http://www.krytox.com
Or call the Krytox® hotline in the United States at (800) 424-7502, E-mail: [email protected]
Canada at 800-263-5924, E-mail: [email protected]
Europe, Mideast, and Africa at +32.3.543.1267, E-mail: [email protected]
Asia/Pacific—Including India at 886-2-2514-4434, E-mail: [email protected]
Mexico and Central America at +011-52-55-5722-1150, E-mail: [email protected]
South America—All Countries at 55-11-4166-8601, E-mail: [email protected]


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (kghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kghia* »_When it is only 100% Krytox, there is no issue about a base carrier. The Krytox GPL105 is 100% Krytox, which doesn't leave much room for variation.

William:
You are missing my point.
"Krytox" is not a technical specification, it is DuPont's trademark for their product line of fluorinated oil lubricants.
Similarly, "Teflon" is DuPont's trademark for their product line of non-stick coatings, but there are a heck of a lot of different Teflon products. If you needed to fix a scratch on the Teflon coated pan you use to cook your breakfast in every morning, I don't think you would be too happy if I brought you a can of Teflon that was formulated for reducing friction on aircraft landing gear legs. The fact that both your frying pan and the Boeing landing gear use "Teflon" does not, _a priori,_ imply that they use the same formulation.
The liquid version of the fluorinated oils sold by DuPont under the brand name "Krytox" are offered in many different viscosities for many different purposes. It's like milk - you can buy homogenized milk, partially skimmed milk, skim milk, buttermilk, it's all milk but I am sure you will appreciate that the different varieties cannot be substituted for all possible different needs.
This discussion is, I think, creating confusion. It's like discussing how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. It seems that we need about one ounce of lubricant per year to keep the Eos roof seals lubricated properly. The VW product, which we know to be the correct product, costs about $50 per year. Whatever possible savings could be gained by purchasing a substitute that is not absolutely, positively known to be the exact same thing is minimal, but the risk of screwing up the roof seal material or not getting satisfactory performance out of the roof (water leaks, air leaks, greasy film, drips, whatever) is significant.
Please tell me if I am overlooking some significant benefit that you have identified that is associated with purchasing something other than the OEM spec product.
Michael













_Modified by PanEuropean at 11:49 PM 7-8-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

By the way, I have re-hosted all of the pictures that were originally part of the post How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks. So, if you are new to the forum (new in the past 3 months) and have not had a chance to see the original post with the pictures, you might find it interesting.
Michael


----------



## shorenuf (May 4, 2007)

*Re: (nikak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nikak* »_Would you happen to know where i could buy the 1lb bottle online?

This is it -- GPL 105, min order 1 bottle -- 1.1 lb -- $180
https://trorderonline.thomasre...tring=
(The picture has a different number on label, but read description)
http://www.thtgroup.com/ind.html -- same description, $160

_Modified by shorenuf at 11:06 PM 7-8-2007_


_Modified by shorenuf at 12:24 AM 7-9-2007_


----------



## shorenuf (May 4, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Please tell me if I am overlooking some significant benefit that you have identified that is associated with purchasing something other than the OEM spec product.
Michael

Michael -- this distributor, GBR - the official distributor of Krytox porducts in the UK, http://www.gbrtech.co.uk/index.htm
describes Krytox GPL 105 thusly:
"We have the solution to the increasing issue of roof creak with the current crop of folding hard top coupe/cabriolets on the market.
The Industry standard material for this application is Krytox GPL 105 - available in oil, grease or aerosol form.
Proven success with vehicles including Volvo C70, GM/Vauxhall Tigra B, VW Eos and applications on Smart cars.
That certainly suggests that we should use only the Krytox formula GPL 105. However, buying the VW branded bottle is not the only choice. (And, if you read the above quote, the oil is not the only choice either, but I am willing to bow to you on that.







)


_Modified by shorenuf at 12:17 AM 7-9-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (shorenuf)*

Hi Roberta:
I am concerned that we have not proved conclusively that the substitute products proposed by William or the distributor in the UK are in fact exactly the same (same viscosity, same formulation) as the VW lubricant with the part number G 052 172 A1. Considering that the roof seals are a critical part of the Eos, and the risk of screwing up if the wrong lubricant is used is so great, I believe that caution should prevail here.
I have to make a drive across the continent later this week - Toronto to Seattle - so, I`ll stop in at VW of America along the way and see if anyone there knows the exact DuPont reference number for the lubricant that VW packages in the one ounce bottles. Considering that VW has already cut the price of their lubricant down to their exact cost price, I think that they will be more than happy to let us know if there is a way to buy the same thing in bulk at a lower cost per unit. After all, if VW dealers can get the exact same thing in bulk at a lower cost per unit, that increases the possibility that the dealers might start to service the Eos roof as part of the normal preventative maintenance that is carried out when the car comes in for scheduled service.
Michael


----------



## shorenuf (May 4, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Roberta:
I am concerned that we have not proved conclusively that the substitute products proposed by William or the distributor in the UK are in fact exactly the same (same viscosity, same formulation) as the VW lubricant with the part number G 052 172 A1. . . .I think that they will be more than happy to let us know if there is a way to buy the same thing in bulk at a lower cost per unit. After all, if VW dealers can get the exact same thing in bulk at a lower cost per unit, that increases the possibility that the dealers might start to service the Eos roof as part of the normal preventative maintenance that is carried out when the car comes in for scheduled service.
Michael

Michael,
Shoot -- I know I read it -- "G 052 172 A1 is Dupont ref # GPL 105" in the same sentence somewhere today. I am 99% sure. The rest of what you say would be exactly what I want -- dealer service for the roof seal maintenance, so I hope I'm right! I have read enough about Krytox now for sure!!!! Thanks for your reply!!
Roberta . . .
Well, I went through the entire history list from yesterday on Firefox -- perhaps I simply made an assumption after reading a couple things. However, I still feel confident.








I have no idea what it says on the VW product label, but here is what Dupont says is in GPL 105:
"Krytox® GPL 100–107 oils are clear, colorless,
fluorinated synthetic oils that are nonreactive,
nonflammable, safe in chemical and oxygen service,
and are long-lasting. Krytox® is a perfluoropolyether
(PFPE)—also called perfluoro-alkylether (PFAE) or
perfluoropolyalkylether (PFPAE)—with the following
chemical structure:
F-(CF-CF2-O)n-CF2CF3
| where n = 10–60
CF3
The polymer chain is completely saturated and
contains only carbon, oxygen, and fluorine. On a
weight basis, a typical Krytox® oil contains 21.6%
carbon, 9.4% oxygen, and 69.0% fluorine."
(Also "All standard grades of grease are thickened with
Krytox® 2000 polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE),
whose formula is (CF2-CF2)n. This special high
efficiency thickener has a melting point of 325°C
(617°F) and has low molecular weight and submicron
(0.2 m) particle size for higher performance
in bearings.
Krytox® GPL 200–207 greases are white buttery
greases with all of the same properties as the GPL
100–107 oils that they are made from, but they are in
grease form.")
Another suggestion that led me to conclude using GPL 105 was acceptable (at the least) was from a Saturn Forum: " . . . according to the service bulletin, this is what I'm supposed to use to lubricate the gasket around the sunroof so it doesn't make anymore noise: Krytox lubricant part # GPL-105-oil"
And then there was the distributor's quote in my post above that specifically mentioned VW.
You are doing a yeoman's job to keep our cars worry free -- and a visit to VW headquarters to check it out is probably stretching your moderator job description, but thank you!! I look forward to the conclusion of this conundrum as much as you must at this point.
Now, for absolutely sure, I have read enough about Krytox!!!!!!!!!! 


_Modified by shorenuf at 2:16 AM 7-9-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (shorenuf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shorenuf* »_Now, for absolutely sure, I have read enough about Krytox!

I actually bought a little bottle of the stuff last week to use when lubricating moving parts on my Phaeton. 
My car has been in the shop for a few weeks now, getting a torque converter replaced. This took a bit longer than was expected because both the VW tech at my dealer and I had some uncertainties and questions about the proper method of replacing the torque converter, so I went to the transmission manufacturer in Germany to get the answers "from the horse's mouth".
Anyway, when I got back, the weather was nice and sunny, so the staff at my VW dealer gave me an Eos to use as a service loaner. It is the first Eos in the service loaner fleet and everyone wants it, so I only drove it for 3 days. I was very impressed with the Eos. This particular one has a standard transmission, which took a bit of getting used to. It is nicely equipped, has a full-size display in the instrument cluster and a compass, also the snazzy sound system. It is a very zippy, very quick car.
So, now I can say that I finally have driven an Eos...








Michael


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## BigFoot-74205 (Jan 26, 2006)

Michael,
Good for you.







I'm glad you liked the car. 
Damir


----------



## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Glad to hear that you were able to spend some time with an Eos! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (shorenuf)*

Hi Roberta,
FYI,
Michaels caution regarding GPL 105 is not without merit in that we have not 100% confirmed that it is an _exact_ duplicate of the VW special lubricant. We need to be a bit cautious recommended a product here on the forum unless we are 100% certain it has been correctly identified for the particular application. 
However, I personally am using the GPL 105 with complete confidence on my Eos.
Before even taking delivery of my Eos I purchased a tube of the GPL 205 grease thinking it would be the product of choice (ease of application, no drips, etc.). 
Just experimenting a bit, I applied it to the weatherstripping on my van, and it works great for this purpose.
But my observation of the Eos (roof seals directly exposed to dust and other debris), plus the experience of another forum member, prompts me to recommend only the oil base products for the roof seals on the Eos.
The oil will still attract some dust, etc. but not to the extent the grease would, and it cleans off easily with a soft, lint free cloth or sponge. 
I purchased the .5 kg bottle of GPL105 and it is indeed a lifetime supply. If you are a person who plans to keep the car a long time, and you decide you are confident in the GPL 105 over the VW lubricant, then go for the upfront cost savings of the "bulk" quantity.
If you generally only keep your cars for 3-4 years, then buy the small bottles as you need them.
Kevin








PS You would be surprised how many "household" applications there are for Krytox, once you have some around.
*Comparison of package sizing*
1 litre (US quart) oil jug, 8 oz. GPL 205, .5 kg (1.1 lb) GPL 105, 33 ml (1 oz.) bottle










_Modified by just4fun at 7:38 AM 7-11-2007_


----------



## shorenuf (May 4, 2007)

*Re: (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_
FYI,
Michaels caution regarding GPL 105 is not without merit in that we have not 100% confirmed that it is an _exact_ duplicate of the VW special lubricant. We need to be a bit cautious recommended a product here on the forum unless we are 100% certain it has been correctly identified for the particular application. . . . .

Hi Keven -- Excellent advice and information all around. Thanks.


----------



## shorenuf (May 4, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Roberta:
I am concerned that we have not proved conclusively that the substitute products proposed by William or the distributor in the UK are in fact exactly the same (same viscosity, same formulation) as the VW lubricant with the part number G 052 172 A1.
I have to make a drive across the continent later this week - Toronto to Seattle - so, I`ll stop in at VW of America along the way and see if anyone there knows the exact DuPont reference number for the lubricant that VW packages in the one ounce bottles.
Michael

Well, Michael, is it or isn't it exactly the same? Curious minds want to know!!


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (shorenuf)*

Hi Roberta:
I did stop in at VW last week, but I spent so much time sorting out an issue with Phaeton 5 speed transmissions, I forgot to bring up the Krytox question.
Anyway, I have just arrived in Victoria, BC after a 4,500 km trip - have used the Krytox on the drapery track in the hotel I am staying at to solve the problem of the drape being so difficult to open and close







- once I get settled in at the new job (starts Monday), I'll try to get in touch with VW and find out what the exact spec for this lubricant is.
Note that I used the "Genuine VW Special Lubricant G 052 172 A1" on the drapery track, even though I am not sure if that meets the spec that the drapery track manufacturer publishes. But, at least now I can open and close the drapes.








Michael


----------



## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
Note that I used the "Genuine VW Special Lubricant G 052 172 A1" on the drapery track, even though I am not sure if that meets the spec that the drapery track manufacturer publishes. But, at least now I can open and close the drapes.








Michael

You just voided your warranty.


----------



## shorenuf (May 4, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Roberta
Note that I used the "Genuine VW Special Lubricant G 052 172 A1" on the drapery track, even though I am not sure if that meets the spec that the drapery track manufacturer publishes. But, at least now I can open and close the drapes.







Michael

Hi Michael,
Hope you are settling into your new job without difficulty.
Well, I know I sort of promised to stop reading/talking about Krytox, but here I am again. The Brisitsh supplier of Krytox I quoted earlier, has written a long reply to someone who asked them direct questions. I have no idea what they would say about drapery rods














, but here is their reply . . .
Dear . . .
Thank you for your enquiry - we have been contacted by, and supplied, many Eos owners during the last couple of months.
We are the official UK Distributor for DuPont Krytox lubricants.
Most found us via the 'VW Vortex' forum.
Overview
The main function of Krytox for the coupe/cabrio application is to act as a semi-permanent lubricant film to eliminate creaks originating from elastomer/panel interfaces for the roof sections, and roof mechanism linkages/location points.
In the case of the VW Eos, the majority of owners are also reporting water leaks, and our initial thought was that Krytox is not intended to address this directly.
However, having seen the entries on the various Owners Forums, and spoken with several owners, we have a better understanding of the issues.
It seems that as the vehicle is supplied, there is a possibility for 'dry' seals to become distorted when roof is closed, and these distortions may be sufficient to allow water ingress.
It is considered that treatment of the seal sections with Krytox will provide a very low friction surface, allowing panels to offer up to the seals more readily, reducing the scope for distortion.
The Industry Standard Krytox grade for anti-squeak and rattle is GPL 105 - this is the PFPE material in oil form.
The most convenient pack size is 30ml applicator bottle with fabric wick cap.
The material is also available in grease form as GPL 205 - the GPL 105 oil is thickened with microfine PTFE to provide a pure white paste.
We also attach the TDS for your information.
We would suggest that the oil is the most appropriate version for treating the relative large surface area of elastomer seal, and perhaps consider the grease for treating the roof linkages.
Key considerations
- seal material needs to be squeaky clean before application of Krytox - free of body wax, silicone etc. We use IMS as a solvent for achieving this.
- application amounts need to be minimal - avoid temptation to overapply. Be cautious of contamination onto unwanted areas such as glass and paint (very difficult to remove!!)
- the applicator bottle is quite convenient, although we find fingers the best method to apply the product. Can work well into the seals, and get into the nooks and crannies which are guaranteed to be the source of noise. Krytox is a very safe and inert material (both to operator and substrate) - does not cause seal swell or cracking.
We attach a relevant link from VWVortex below - as a US entry referring to application of Krytox to the EOS roof system.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3087297
This shows the person applying via the nozzle of the bottle, rather than the applicator cap - and to our mind, the application looks a bit heavy, but it gives a good indication of the areas for treating.
Durability
Krytox is not considered to be a 'temporary' fix.
It does not suffer water-washout, does not oxidise, and does not migrate. DuPont have carried out fluorine flame testing on treated door seal sections 4 years after application, and found comparable levels to those at time of application.
Pricing
Krytox GPL 105 applicator bottle, 30ml £16.50/30ml bottle
Krytox GPL 205 grease, 2 oz £16.70/2oz tube
Both are ex stock, and prices are ex VAT, ex works.
We accept Credit Card payment (excepting Amex and Diners), our minimum order quantity is £30.00, so we would suggest you take either x2 of the bottle, or perhaps one of each bottle + grease.
We can ship these amounts in a Jiffy bag in the post - allow £3.50 for Post and Packing.
All contact information is below - please call if you need more data, or to place an order.
With best regards
Anne Law
Office Administrator
GBR Technology Limited
Tel: +44 118 9820567
Fax: +44 118 9820590
Nice the Vortex got some recognition! 
Here is my commentary on the above . . .
"Krytox is not considered to be a 'temporary' fix.
It does not suffer water-washout, does not oxidise, and does not migrate. DuPont have carried out fluorine flame testing on treated door seal sections 4 years after application, and found comparable levels to those at time of application."
If only that were true, but from what EOS owners are reporting, they have been, or plan to reapply Krytox as often as every two to three months.
"seal material needs to be squeaky clean before application of Krytox - free of body wax, silicone etc. We use IMS as a solvent for achieving this."
In all the posts I have read, no one has mentioned anything like that. I imagine they might run through the car wash, or hand wash the car before a re-application, but no one has mentioned using a solvent cleaner.
Curiouser and Curiouser, said Alice.
Roberta


----------



## BarrettF77 (Jul 19, 2007)

*Re: (shorenuf)*

I just bought my Eos yesterday and the krytox bottle is nowhere to be found? The dealer says that it doesn't come with it and they also don't have any in parts. So what gives? The seals dont look great so I want to get some. Any ideas as I thought u got a bottle in the car


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: (BarrettF77)*

Congratulations on finally getting the car.
A new EOS doesn't come with Krytox, although there have been reports of some dealers performing seal maintenance as part of the PDI process and then donating the remainder of the bottle to the new owner. That said you should be able to order via your dealer, the part number is in the manual and in the threads on this subject. You can also order it on-line from 1stVWParts.com, who are a vortex advertiser, and I believe are actually AUBURN VW in Washington State...


----------



## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: (BarrettF77)*

I called a few dealers in my area when I purchased a bottle. No one stocked the item but could get it, if ordered, the next day.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (shorenuf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shorenuf* »_..."seal material needs to be squeaky clean before application of Krytox - free of body wax, silicone etc. We use IMS as a solvent for achieving this."
In all the posts I have read, no one has mentioned anything like that. I imagine they might run through the car wash, or hand wash the car before a re-application, but no one has mentioned using a solvent cleaner.

Hi Roberta:
I think that the 'squeaky clean' concern is specific to the presence of any other chemicals on the seals, such as body wax or silicone, as the author of the email specifically mentioned.
So far as normal old 'environmental dirt' is concerned - the stuff we used to play in when we were kids - I think that just washing the seals with mild soap and water prior to lubricating them (and letting them dry thoroughly, of course, prior to lubricating them) is sufficient. However, if there is any evidence of wax or silicone, then those contaminants would need to be removed first. 
My guess is that the abbreviation 'IMS' refers to 'Industrial and Marine Solvent'. I am not familiar with this product (although I don't mean that as any criticism of the suitability of it). Personally, I use a 3M product that is specifically formulated to remove wax and silicone from finished automotive surfaces - I have posted a picture of it below. The easiest way of getting it is to ask the parts specialist at your VW dealer to order a can of it from a local jobber. Failing that, go to a fairly large body shop and ask them to order a can of it for you. It is a really super-useful product to have around the house, it does a good job of removing residue from all sorts of surfaces.
As for the "Krytox lasts 4 years" comment - I suspect that is true in just about every possible circumstance except automotive surfaces that are exposed to the elements. In other words, if we had some kind of seal inside the car (ski bag door seal, just for example) that needed treatment, it would probably last forever. But on the roof seals, the surface is exposed to wind, water, sunlight, dust, car wash chemicals, you name it... thus I am not surprised that the lubricant gets worn away after a while. I think that 'every three months' is probably a bit too frequent except for, perhaps, very severe service such as Scottsdale (high temperatures, strong sunlight, windy). For more 'typical' parts of the country, probably once every 6 months would be sufficient.
Michael


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## shorenuf (May 4, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
Hi Roberta . . . . I think that 'every three months' is probably a bit too frequent except for, perhaps, very severe service such as Scottsdale (high temperatures, strong sunlight, windy). For more 'typical' parts of the country, probably once every 6 months would be sufficient.
Michael

Well, I'm not moving!!!!!





























Michael, thanks for the detailed reply. Still waiting patiently to see who wins What's My Line (showing my age again). "Will the real VW Krytox please stand up?"















Roberta


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## jennyaik (Jul 25, 2007)

I'm wondering is Super Lube ( a teflon based lubricant) would be as effective as the GL-205 and VW lube. We've been using it on sunroofs forever, I am going to try it on my Cabrio roof and report back.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (jennyaik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jennyaik* »_I'm wondering is Super Lube ( a teflon based lubricant) would be as effective as the GL-205 and VW lube. We've been using it on sunroofs forever, I am going to try it on my Cabrio roof and report back.

The 2007 North American owners manual specifically warns against using silicone based products on the seals, but makes no mention of teflon based products.
The roof seals on the Eos are not manufactured using run of the mill weatherstripping material, but rather a specially developed material specific to the Eos.
The teflon product will probably be fine on your cabrio, but caution should be used applying it to Eos roof seals. If it happened to cause swelling or deterioration of the seals, this would of course, be problematic.
Kevin


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## colb666 (Sep 12, 2006)

*Re: (just4fun)*

I have been using "Vaseline gel" to lub the seals on our Eos for the past 9 months and have had no leaks or creaks at all.I was recommended this by a friend who is very much in the know with VW's.My attitude is that is its safe to use on a babies ass then its safe for a car roof seal.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (colb666)*


_Quote, originally posted by *colb666* »_I have been using "Vaseline gel" to lub the seals on our Eos for the past 9 months and have had no leaks or creaks at all.I was recommended this by a friend who is very much in the know with VW's.My attitude is that is its safe to use on a babies ass then its safe for a car roof seal.

I would respectfully have to disagree with you on that point.
Vaseline is petroleum based and petroleum based products can cause some rubber and synthetics to dry out and deteriorate over time.
Since we don't know the exact composition of the Eos roof seals, only time will tell for certain if Vaseline will have a long term negative effect on your seals. 
Personally I wouldn't take the chance and will continue to use the VW recommended G 052 172 A1 (Krytox) lubricant because it is inert and recommended by Dupont for use on automotive weatherstripping and seals.
Kevin


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## entacto (Nov 22, 2010)

WolfsburgerMitFries said:


> Volkswagen sells a weatherstrip lubricant under part number G 052 172.A1 for maintaining the weatherstrip roof seals in the Eos and that part number is given in the Eos owners manual. Another member priced it at the VW dealer for $95 in a 30ML volume. It is a liquid form of DuPont Krytox, the DuPont equivalent part number is GPL 105 and it is sold in a minimum package of 0.5KG/1.1lb for $145 from Krytox Vendors. The 0.5kg bottle is about 8X the volume from the VW dealer. The Chemical Abstracts Index (CAS) name for Krytox fluorinated oils is oxirane trifluoro (trifluoromethyl)-homopolymer, and the CAS Registry Number is 60164-51-4.
> Thanks to Speedster356 in Greece for the picture.
> 
> 
> ...



would you think product silicone grease like novagard is safe on rubber seal?
http://www.amazon.com/Novagard-Lubricating-Protecting-Dielectric-Silicone/dp/B001BNZ1AY


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## DavidPaul (Nov 28, 2009)

If memory serves me correctly, Krytox contains no silicone and silicone is not recommended for VW seals.


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## Evil_Charles (Jun 16, 2009)

I know this thread is rather old but I have seen a car polish with Krytox in it. Here is a link:

http://www.marly.com/lang/en-us/store/car-care/krytox-super-polish-wipes.aspx

They sell other products that may be worth a try. Has anyone heard of that brand? Anyhow that should prove it won't harm your paint but protect it. I might order some of their products.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

Interesting.
Back in the early days, most of us cursed at trying to get krytox smears off the paint work until we discovered Windex worked pretty good. 
And now there's a polish. 
Kevin


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