# TTRS Disaster



## Thepianist15 (Feb 12, 2009)

So went to purchase a 2012 TTRS this past weekend in Duluth Minnesota. Car had roughly 26k miles on it, in great shape inside and out. All service record were provided and everything seemed alright. So we decided to purchase the car. 

Driving about 10 minutes after we left the previous owners house I filled up with gas, and was on my merry way. Shortly after that, I got into wide open road and decided to open it up a bit, down shifted into 4th gear and was WOT. Made it to about 5k rpm and the motor started to jar and stall out. CEL started flashing and I immediately put the clutch in and coasted into the nearest parking lot. Motor was still running when I came to a stop and shut it down. Did not attempt to restart. 

Anyways, had the car towed back to Duluth. The shop whose working on it called and said that cylinder 1 and 5 were not getting spark or power, and with a steathascope said the potentially saw metal shavings in the cylinder. But were not 100% sure on everything just yet. 

So besides being **** out of luck, are there any happy endings here? Anyone have any experience in what the cost of a rebuild or new motor is?


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## Vegas-RoadsTTer (Mar 17, 2013)

*Very unusual if metal deposits are real. My first guess would have been coilpack failure*

which is a common problem with TTs and happen with no warning. I now change mine every time I change plugs. How well do you trust the mechanic?


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Vegas-RoadsTTer said:


> ... How well do you trust the mechanic?



This was my first thought, for various reasons regarded what was stated thus far...

No speak of any codes scanned. Does your mechanic have Vag-Com/VCDS? If not, then find another mechanic! This should have been first and not just generic OBD codes.

Could be as simple as just Coils that took a crap as mentioned above.

*EDIT:* Read again you mentioned private seller: Also, who did you buy the car from? Private seller or dealer? In FL we have recourse under lemon law, even for used cars (just in case of major engine damage).


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## Thepianist15 (Feb 12, 2009)

sdezego said:


> This was my first thought, for various reasons regarded what was stated thus far...
> 
> No speak of any codes scanned. Does your mechanic have Vag-Com/VCDS? If not, then find another mechanic! This should have been first and not just generic OBD codes.
> 
> ...




Car was private party. Guy has lots of money, just bought a manual V10 R8 and drives a SQ5 as his beater. So hopefully it'll be settled nicely. 
But just talked with the mechanic, they do specialized in Audi/Porsche/VW and well known in the area. They let me know there is no compression in cylinder 1 and 2, and does not look as simple as head gasket. Waiting on them to dig in and find out more


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Gotcha and glad it is in the right hands. 

Sad to hear but hope it all works out in the end!


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## .:R32 Franny (May 2, 2012)

Thepianist15 said:


> So went to purchase a 2012 TTRS this past weekend in Duluth Minnesota. Car had roughly 26k miles on it, in great shape inside and out. All service record were provided and everything seemed alright. So we decided to purchase the car.
> 
> Driving about 10 minutes after we left the previous owners house I filled up with gas, and was on my merry way. Shortly after that, I got into wide open road and decided to open it up a bit, down shifted into 4th gear and was WOT. Made it to about 5k rpm and the motor started to jar and stall out. CEL started flashing and I immediately put the clutch in and coasted into the nearest parking lot. Motor was still running when I came to a stop and shut it down. Did not attempt to restart.
> 
> ...




Wow dude sorry to hear that. I was going to check out that car but ended up finding a better option out in MA. Happy I didn't end up with that one. (Again so sorry to hear that happened to you bro! That really stinks) Let me know if I can help in anyway. I am down here in Eagan. 

What was up with the Lemon issue as well?


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## Thepianist15 (Feb 12, 2009)

.:R32 Franny said:


> Wow dude sorry to hear that. I was going to check out that car but ended up finding a better option out in MA. Happy I didn't end up with that one. (Again so sorry to hear that happened to you bro! That really stinks) Let me know if I can help in anyway. I am down here in Eagan.
> 
> What was up with the Lemon issue as well?




I'm not sure there is a lemon law or statute I can take advantage of here in this situation, unless i'm mistaken. From what I understand once you sign the title and previous owner deposits the money its yours. Had i driven just a bit more on the test drive I wouldn't be in this situation, I put around 30-40 miles on the car during test drive. :banghead:

We agreed that he'll be paying a bulk of the repairs that need to be made so thats good news. If the entire motor is shot.....well we will cross the bridge if we get there. I have a feeling its one or a combo of the following since there is no compression on 2 cylinders, but normal on the other 3. 

Valve springs, stuck valve, broken valves, broken valve seal, piston rings, rod bearings, somehow broken cam shaft. I did not hear an audible loud clanking noise so i'm praying its nothing connecting rod or piston related. The car still fired up after I came to my initial stop, was just super rough feeling which makes me believe very messed up valve-train somehow.


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## Thepianist15 (Feb 12, 2009)

.:R32 Franny said:


> Wow dude sorry to hear that. I was going to check out that car but ended up finding a better option out in MA. Happy I didn't end up with that one. (Again so sorry to hear that happened to you bro! That really stinks) Let me know if I can help in anyway. I am down here in Eagan.
> 
> What was up with the Lemon issue as well?



Sorry mis-understood. 

The lemon that was with the vehicle was nothing mechanical. There was a consistent rattling noise from the dash that was fixed by the 2nd owner. Was just a picky thing from the first owner and he raised hell with the dealer so they purchased it back.


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## .:R32 Franny (May 2, 2012)

Thepianist15 said:


> Sorry mis-understood.
> 
> The lemon that was with the vehicle was nothing mechanical. There was a consistent rattling noise from the dash that was fixed by the 2nd owner. Was just a picky thing from the first owner and he raised hell with the dealer so they purchased it back.


Awe ok that makes sense. Hopefully everything works out for you in the long run and its not a major major job.


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## Thepianist15 (Feb 12, 2009)

On the somewhat bright side, getting a whole new motor and turbo direct from Germany. So basically i'll be setup with a full factory warranty on a fresh car. Hardest part will be driving sensible for the motor break-in! 

Now i get a spare 2.5rs motor to play with too. Anyone have any idea what these are worth rebuilt?


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## FastEddie7 (Aug 23, 2012)

Thepianist15 said:


> On the somewhat bright side, getting a whole new motor and turbo direct from Germany. So basically i'll be setup with a full factory warranty on a fresh car. Hardest part will be driving sensible for the motor break-in!
> 
> Now i get a spare 2.5rs motor to play with too. Anyone have any idea what these are worth rebuilt?


Just an FYI your situation may be different but I was in a very similar situation (not with TTRS but a S4) and the new motor only had a 1 year 12k mile warranty. So it wasn't the "full factory warranty" as that is 4 years (50k? I don't remember). 

Just may want to keep that in mind.


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## Thepianist15 (Feb 12, 2009)

FastEddie7 said:


> Just an FYI your situation may be different but I was in a very similar situation (not with TTRS but a S4) and the new motor only had a 1 year 12k mile warranty. So it wasn't the "full factory warranty" as that is 4 years (50k? I don't remember).
> 
> Just may want to keep that in mind.




I guess I mean full factory warranty on just power-train, not the rest of the car. So I guess if the transmission decides to explode now then i'm up the creek. Good point though! 

Blown motor will be back at my house mid next week, while the new motor gets installed. I'm going to start a tear down thread of this motor and re-build since I haven't been able to find a good one with photos....standby!


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## Thepianist15 (Feb 12, 2009)

New motor in, get to have fun with the old motor now. 

Turns out the ECM also was cooked apparently. Not communicating to the fuel pump and we've tried everything to make it work, but just won't. Someone who owned the car before obviously tampered with it from the screw marks. So why the hell not spend another $1500. My guess is that something happened where the engine was starving for fuel and running super lean causing the plug to melt on cyc 1 which is where the metal chunks came from. Just a hypothesis though, won't know for sure until i dig into the "old" motor.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Thepianist15 said:


> New motor in, get to have fun with the old motor now.
> 
> Turns out the ECM also was cooked apparently. Not communicating to the fuel pump and we've tried everything to make it work, but just won't. Someone who owned the car before obviously tampered with it from the screw marks. So why the hell not spend another $1500. My guess is that something happened where the engine was starving for fuel and running super lean causing the plug to melt on cyc 1 which is where the metal chunks came from. Just a hypothesis though, won't know for sure until i dig into the "old" motor.


I have a spare TTRS ecu that is immobilizer deleted and has 034 stage 1 flashed on it if you are interested.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Truly mind boggling...


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

This is pure speculation on my part, based only on anecdotal evidence, but it certainly appears as though your ECU was probably removed and bench flashed with an aftermarket tune. I know of a shop here that has had two TTRS's in with no compression on one or more cylinders due to the tune leaning out and causing serious detonation issues (both cars had the same tune).

Anyway, glad you're getting a new engine and ECU out of the deal - hope there is nothing more going on beyond that!


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## ribtits (Jul 22, 2015)

TBomb said:


> This is pure speculation on my part, based only on anecdotal evidence, but it certainly appears as though your ECU was probably removed and bench flashed with an aftermarket tune. I know of a shop here that has had two TTRS's in with no compression on one or more cylinders due to the tune leaning out and causing serious detonation issues (both cars had the same tune).
> 
> Anyway, glad you're getting a new engine and ECU out of the deal - hope there is nothing more going on beyond that!


Which tune was this so I can avoid it? haha


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## Thepianist15 (Feb 12, 2009)

ribtits said:


> Which tune was this so I can avoid it? haha


It had APR stage 2 on it with other support modds. I don't really think it was an issue with the tune itself, more or less the very bad job of improperly installing and putting the ECU back together to whoever previously touched it to which is a mystery at this point. I've run APR on my previous GTI's and current daily for over 200k miles with no problems at all so this was weird. 

If anything, moisture and dust got on the actual circuit board causing it to short out somewhere causing the problem.

Back in action though and its such an amazing car to drive!


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Thepianist15 said:


> ...Back in action though and its such an amazing car to drive!


...and look at! Congrats!


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## mopakarim4300 (Jul 22, 2019)

which is a common problem with TTs and happen with no warning. I now change mine every time I change plugs. How well do you trust the mechanic?


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## Thepianist15 (Feb 12, 2009)

So with all this free time in quarantine, Corona-cation (vacation), had time to break down the old blown motor. 
What i found was two broken valve lifters, both on exhaust side, on cylinder 2 and 4. Cylinder 1, 3, 5 are completely messed up, especially 1 and 5. Cylinder 5, is completely melted down and scored, 1 has damage but not nearly the damage that 5 has. #3 has just a melted electrode but no real damage to the cylinder shockingly

Cylinder 2 and 3 seem alright as far as pistons go. Piston #4 has damage but the cylinder wall is fine. 

No metal shavings in the oil when i drained, or in the oil pump. So i'm guessing the turbo got blasted with that, i haven't torn that apart yet but we'll see. 

Either way, would need a whole new head, all 5 new pistons, hardware, gaskets, ect. Basically the block is probably the only good part of this motor. I don't really care too much, this was just a big science experiment in the end to see what the hell happened and the hopes of helping someone else avoid this if possible. 

So only question that I have out of curiosity, is what happened first? Shorted out ECU caused over boost? Broken cam lifter first? No idea, i'm not a pro or claim to be one, but i'm just curious as to what happened so maybe i can help someone else on here avoid a motor detonation. So i may have a cool 5-cylinder coffee table out of this which is fun....


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## cas5259 (Nov 5, 2017)

Wow that looks rough. Somewhat decent timing though, if that happened during the test drive, you could have walked away. A few months later and you probably would have ended up paying for everything.

My money would be on the opened ECU. At 26k miles, was the seller not the original owner? If it’s really APR tuned, those tunes are flashed through the OBD port....


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## Thepianist15 (Feb 12, 2009)

cas5259 said:


> Wow that looks rough. Somewhat decent timing though, if that happened during the test drive, you could have walked away. A few months later and you probably would have ended up paying for everything.
> 
> My money would be on the opened ECU. At 26k miles, was the seller not the original owner? If it’s really APR tuned, those tunes are flashed through the OBD port....




Previous owner was the 2nd owner of the car but was the first to put the downpipes and APR stage 2 tune on it. Guy i bought it from purhcuase the car at 6k miles and had it dealer serviced ever sense he sold it to me. The only reason the 2nd owner sold it to me was to make room for his new R8 too. 

However, at that time all APR tunes were a bench tune so they had to physically yank the ECU out, open up and do it, rather than the OBD tune which is now most/all tunes. 
So whoever did the tune (won't say names) did a bad job of opening up the ECU itself to do the job. Work was done at larger Minneapolis tuner. Whatever the cause which is a guessing game at this point, my bet would be on a poor tune job in which dust/moisture/debris got in the ECU causing something to short out and go wrong. 

It all worked out in the end just fine, my curious mind just wants to know what happened


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## cas5259 (Nov 5, 2017)

Thepianist15 said:


> Previous owner was the 2nd owner of the car but was the first to put the downpipes and APR stage 2 tune on it. Guy i bought it from purhcuase the car at 6k miles and had it dealer serviced ever sense he sold it to me. The only reason the 2nd owner sold it to me was to make room for his new R8 too.
> 
> However, at that time all APR tunes were a bench tune so they had to physically yank the ECU out, open up and do it, rather than the OBD tune which is now most/all tunes.
> So whoever did the tune (won't say names) did a bad job of opening up the ECU itself to do the job. Work was done at larger Minneapolis tuner. Whatever the cause which is a guessing game at this point, my bet would be on a poor tune job in which dust/moisture/debris got in the ECU causing something to short out and go wrong.
> ...


Interesting, didn’t realize that. APR should be able to tell you where it was tuned by your VIN. You would think they would do a better job of resealing it, that’s bs.


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## Thepianist15 (Feb 12, 2009)

cas5259 said:


> Interesting, didn’t realize that. APR should be able to tell you where it was tuned by your VIN. You would think they would do a better job of resealing it, that’s bs.


I know where exactly it was tuned. When i called them on it, they assured me they didn't do it of course saying it was an OBD flash like every other APR product. But after I called my two local APR dealers, they both said its very possible that generation of TTRS needed a bench flash at that time. The new software is now OBD i guess.


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