# Got my Water/Meth Kit Today!



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

Got my kit today!







Looks like my weekend is planned.
I plan on using my washer tank. You access it by removing the driver's side wheel and wheel housing liner. Once that is off, I'll check to see if there is someplace to mount the pump. I'll try to remember to take pics.
I think there are only a couple days left on the GB.
20% off with coupon code *bddb4b *from Alcohol-Injection.com.


_Modified by JettaRed at 9:31 PM 4-8-2008_


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## turbott920 (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Got my Water/Meth Kit Today! (JettaRed)*

which kit, cc, ect ect did you end up going with?


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: Got my Water/Meth Kit Today! (turbott920)*

Stage 2 (progressive flow) with 3 and 5 gph nozzles.


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## turbott920 (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Got my Water/Meth Kit Today! (JettaRed)*

cool, good luck with the instal.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: Got my Water/Meth Kit Today! (turbott920)*

The real challenge to all this is WHERE to mount stuff. I explored a little tonight and have probably settled on where to mount the pump. I keep a gallon of washer fluid in the car anyway, so I'll use the washer tank. Here are some preliminary pics. I didn't get all the way there yet because I have to go to work tomorrow and didn't want to be up till midnight. However, come Saturday, I'm gonna have some fun.
Washer Tank with Wheel Liner Removed








Mounting Location for Pump with Airbox Removed








Another view of the Pump Location








Water Line inside Wheel Well to Engine Compartment and Pump








Water Line running to Washer Tank








Modified Airbox to make room for the Pump








Side View of Airbox








View of Pump with Airbox Installed







This is about the only place to mount the pump. If anyone has a better location, please post it up. As you know, it is really tight in our engine compartment. I have no idea where you'd mount a separate tank. I'll post more pics as I make progress.


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## vaultpsu (Aug 4, 2005)

oh man, give me a call if you need help. You should have got some 2 gauge cable and relocated the battery to the spare well! That's what I'm doing with mine.


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## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

My pump is located in the driver's side IC area. Another benefit of running a front mount


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (TSTARKZ123)*

More pics. I ran the water feed through a hole that I drilled in the top of the washer bottle. I ran the tube to the bottom of the tank.
*








Pump Mounted









Water Line









Nozzle installed using Throttle Body Flange








Water Line to the Nozzle








Put back together*
_Modified by JettaRed at 7:24 PM 4-11-2008_


_Modified by JettaRed at 7:27 PM 4-11-2008_


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## 71DubBugBug (Dec 3, 2006)

nice


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (71DubBugBug)*

OK. Used Unisettings to set the timing ahead 1.5 degrees (starting out easy). I'm using the 3 gal/hr nozzle. Starts at 7 psi and full at 14 psi. 
Awesome!


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

Final pics.
Placed the controller in the little storage area under the ash tray.


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## vaultpsu (Aug 4, 2005)

Give us your impressions on how the car feels now....


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## exboy99 (May 14, 2002)

*Re: (vaultpsu)*

werd 
looks like a pretty good install job
so now that you advanced timing a bit.... 
what's the word?


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (exboy99)*

feels great. kinda like when I had the race gas program on my A4. still gotta play around a bit. the nice thing is you can adjust it on the fly. i may move up to 2.25 degrees timing (timing increases by .75 every increment) and see how that is.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

Actually, I may see about adding the race gas program and trying that.


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## jjgti18t (Apr 27, 2007)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

I want one.. watching this.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (jjgti18t)*

The GB may be over, maybe not, but will soon be if not. There is a lot more discussion going on here: water/meth group buy.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

I think I found my sweet spot. Here's the setup:
*GIAC-X
Forge 007P DV
BoostMachine Max Boost: 20 psi
Timing (via Unisettings): +3 degrees
Nozzle: 3 gph at throttle body
W/M onset: 5 psi
W/M full: 15 psi*

I actually reduced by max boost from 22 psi to 20 psi. I may add another .75 degrees of timing, but maybe not. The car runs really strong now.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

what is your overall timing up top now?


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## DnA-TT (Oct 21, 2003)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

First off, nice clean install.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I've been wondering where one would plug in a nozzle for water injection.
Secondly, I wonder what kind of gains you would get just by cooling the charge. Do you think the increase in power you're feeling is due to bumping up the timing? Or more so due to the cooled charge? (Or...a little of both?)


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## 1.8Tabamoura (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm curious to know since you are injecting after the throttle body . what whould happen if for some reason the pump injects water/meth with the throttle closed? or when you hit the rev limiter . I'm contemplating going this route and getting a few more ponnies out of my K04.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (DnA-TT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DnA-TT* »_First off, nice clean install.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I've been wondering where one would plug in a nozzle for water injection.
Secondly, I wonder what kind of gains you would get just by cooling the charge. Do you think the increase in power you're feeling is due to bumping up the timing? Or more so due to the cooled charge? (Or...a little of both?)

Thanks. Since I'm injecting right after the throttlebody, there's not a lot of time to cool the charge. I think the power increase is due to increase in timing and perhaps more expanding gases when the water vaporizes.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (1.8Tabamoura)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8Tabamoura* »_I'm curious to know since you are injecting after the throttle body . what whould happen if for some reason the pump injects water/meth with the throttle closed? or when you hit the rev limiter . I'm contemplating going this route and getting a few more ponnies out of my K04.

If the throttle closes, boost drops to zero and the pump shuts off. It's all boost driven using voltage from the MAP. The controller responds instantaneously. Water would spray for probably less than a second and any water would instantaneously turn to steam.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: Got my Water/Meth Kit Today! (JettaRed)*

Neato! Also, can you post about the battery relocation? That comes after brakes


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: Got my Water/Meth Kit Today! (l88m22vette)*








I didn't move my battery.


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## DnA-TT (Oct 21, 2003)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_I think the power increase is due to increase in timing and perhaps more expanding gases when the water vaporizes.

Interesting. Thanks.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (DnA-TT)*

I moved the nozzle to the top (instead of the side) of the intake. That seems to have made a little difference, but could be my imagination. The throttle plate opens towards the manifold at the top and away at the bottom. This may give the water more dispersion. Spraying from the side limited the air to what was coming from the bottom of the plate.
I've used water for many years, since about 2002, and I've never had the type of performance increase that I am getting from this kit. It probably has to do with the timing advance and the progress amount of water being sprayed, but I can feel it. At first I was calling Bullsht to claims of 20 whp, but maybe I was wrong. I'm not a big dyno fan, so I'm not getting her dyno'd. But this is definitely a nice, affordable next step to take in performance mods.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

Here's an update. I finally took some logs. Basically, there total timing pull on any cylinder at anytime was 5.3 degrees! (and that was at 6200 rpm and 14 psi on cylinder 3). The graph may not be the best representation, but it's about 11 seconds and from 2500 rpm to 6000 rpm a couple of times. Anyone who wants the file, I'll be happy to send it so you. Just let me know.
The configuration is:
*GIAC-X
Forge 007P DV
BoostMachine Max Boost: 20 psi
Timing (via Unisettings): +3 degrees
Nozzle: 3 gph at throttle body
W/M onset: 5 psi
W/M full: 15 psi
*










_Modified by JettaRed at 4:55 PM 5-6-2008_


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

You have one with the iat's? You may want to go to the next nozzle up and you could get another full * out of it. Also you still have about 4psi with of power still untapped. Not saying you have to, just throwing it out there.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_You have one with the iat's? You may want to go to the next nozzle up and you could get another full * out of it. Also you still have about 4psi with of power still untapped. Not saying you have to, just throwing it out there.

I measured blocks 011, 020, and 118. I was thinking advancing to 3.75 degrees. Virtually the whole time there is no timing pull. I'm working on a new chart.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

Sounds great http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You did get the 5gph nozzle right?


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

No, I got the 4 gph. I thought the 5 gph would be too much and traded it. This next chart shows timing pull to be very rare. It's for a longer period.
The light green is boost, dark green is intake temps in F (x10), and the dark read is RPMs. Interesting that the intake temps drop under high boost (i.e. water is spraying). That is about the last 7 minutes of logging. My file covers almost 40 minutes.










_Modified by JettaRed at 5:54 PM 5-6-2008_


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

its best if you can break it down into one good 3rd or 4th gear pull (3k till 6500+)


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

yeah, i know. just didn't have anywhere to easily do it tonight.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

Here I bumped timing to 3.75 and used the 4 gph nozzle. Not bad. And, you can really feel the car pull, but it's smooth. When I pull from the light I don't think it's a lot until I see tiny specks in my mirror and realize they're cars that were next to me.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

OK, here's my 2500-6500 rpm run in 3rd gear. I lowered my water settings to come on @ 5 psi and run full @ 10 psi. I still have timing advanced 3.75 degrees and am running a 4 gph nozzle. I got 3 degrees pull in cylinder 4 near redline. Otherwise, 0 degrees pull.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

I moved my nozzle to the top of the throttlebody. The throttle plate opens toward the intake manifold at the top.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_OK, here's my 2500-6500 rpm run in 3rd gear. I lowered my water settings to come on @ 5 psi and run full @ 10 psi. I still have timing advanced 3.75 degrees and am running a 4 gph nozzle. I got 3 degrees pull in cylinder 4 near redline. Otherwise, 0 degrees pull.









still has more in her


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## 1.8Tabamoura (Jul 29, 2005)

nice , thanks for sharing the updates and loggings


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (1.8Tabamoura)*

I've been pretty happy with this kit and ordered another for my A4. In this case, I want to see if I can run 87 octane with water successfully.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

I upped my timing to 4.5 degrees. Here are the results for a full throttle 2500-6500 rpm run in third gear.








I have the water coming on really early at 3 psi and I'm full on at around 7 psi. No bogging or misfires and *NO TIMING PULL*! (All you see on the graph is the boost.)
In all honesty, I did get momentary 8.3 degree pull in cylinder 4 right as I was coming off throttle.



_Modified by JettaRed at 7:18 PM 5-17-2008_


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

Here's an interesting graph. I was actually going uphill and passed a car. If I remember, this was probably a 4th gear pull. I did get some timing pull.


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## DnA-TT (Oct 21, 2003)

You're really rampin up the timing, though.
It's really hard for me to read your graphs (colorblind), but from what I read, it sounds like you're getting close to maximizing and/or hitting the limits your current setup. Is that right?


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## RonN (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: (DnA-TT)*

In your sig I notice that you have a chip and exhaust. What are you running for an intake and what are you using to adjust your timing?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (RonN)*

He is the one thats running the massively gutted airbox. Unisettings is what you use to adjust timing (unless you are still using a serial port than lemmingwinks works).


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (DnA-TT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DnA-TT* »_You're really rampin up the timing, though.
It's really hard for me to read your graphs (colorblind), but from what I read, it sounds like you're getting close to maximizing and/or hitting the limits your current setup. Is that right? 

In that graph, I was getting almost 7 degrees pull in cylinder 4 (cyl 4 is always the problem child). From what I understand, I'm still in the safe zone, that the ecu can pull 12 degrees.
There is no audible pinging. I could move up to a 5 gph nozzle which would add 20% more water. Maybe I'll try that and see what happens.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

Here are a couple more 3rd gear pulls. The first run is at 4.5 degrees advance timing and the second is at 3.75 degrees advance. Both are with the larger 5 gph nozzle. They were done within 10 or 15 minutes of each other. (Boost is the crimson line.)



















_Modified by JettaRed at 6:34 PM 5-18-2008_


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

Here are the two 4.5 degree pulls with different nozzles. However, they were on different days.


















_Modified by JettaRed at 6:35 PM 5-18-2008_


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_He is the one thats running the massively gutted airbox.


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## punkrider99 (Jan 16, 2004)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

nice setup. 
fwiw snow performance has a controller with an internal pressure sensor. this way there is no chance of an electrical issue. it just reads boost mechanically.
either water/meth ftw! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (punkrider99)*

Both Devils Own and Snow use voltage from either the map or maf for the controller, neither use acutally psi


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Actually, both offer (maybe only Devil's) a Hobbs switch for controlling the pump in their base kits. The Hobbs is a simple full on or off switch based on boost pressure set points. It is not a progressive flow controller.


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## punkrider99 (Jan 16, 2004)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_Both Devils Own and Snow use voltage from either the map or maf for the controller, neither use acutally psi

sorry bro but you're wrong. i've got two boost referenced snow kits. one on my 1.8t and one on my turbo 2.slow. both of them tee into a boost line. and btw non-progressive kits are retarded no matter which company they're from.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

Resurrected for the pics.


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## bvgoosedd (Mar 5, 2009)

in theory if i was runing 25 psi out of a gt30 and had 350 whp what should i be able to do with water and meth???? trying to see if it's worth it.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (bvgoosedd)*

Not really sure. I see the water as a safety device when running advanced timing and high boost. I now am running 5.25 degrees advance timing and 20 psi max boost. No pinging.


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## cruzad3r (Jan 24, 2007)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

are you holding 20lbs till 5.5k rpm or you're maxing out at 20lbs at about 3.5k and onward rpm?


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

Bumping a good thread!


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## coachvtt (Jan 16, 2008)

*well done!*

I have the Alcohol Injection systems set-up!
http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz85/coachvtt/?action=view&current=PumpFrontView.jpg&newest=1
http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/...?action=view&current=AISPumpMyTT.jpg&newest=1
http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz85/coachvtt/?action=view&current=PumpFrontView.jpg&newest=
http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/...t/?action=view&current=AISSwitch.jpg&newest=1
I use the water res as well and a throttle body plate from USRT and I spray from the bottom,
I spray at around 8-10psi and continious to 17psi. I love the water/meth as well!


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## coachvtt (Jan 16, 2008)

*damn!*

I just noticed this thread is two years old..lol


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