# Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo?



## Fastbreakstar22 (Nov 4, 2005)

I plan to purchase this kit within the next two weeks. I was curious to know if anyone could tell me what they have done to the kit and what numbers they have. Just for possible ideas.
Thanks.
Also, I wanted to know how the 2.0T Stage 2 compares to Evos, STIs, SRT-4s, Cobalt SS, etc








Sorry for not being specific but im talking about the Kinetic Stage 2 2.0L MK3 kit.


_Modified by Fastbreakstar22 at 2:58 PM 1-5-2008_


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (Fastbreakstar22)*

should have got a vr6 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (DaBeeterEater)*


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (Fastbreakstar22)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fastbreakstar22* »_I plan to purchase this kit within the next two weeks. I was curious to know if anyone could tell me what they have done to the kit and what numbers they have. Just for possible ideas.
Thanks.
Also, I wanted to know how the 2.0T Stage 2 compares to Evos, STIs, SRT-4s, Cobalt SS, etc









http://www.dragtimes.com/


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## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (Salsa GTI)*

i very handily took care of a brand new 350z back in september. that was only at 10PSI... but then again i'm not running the kinetic kit. but it is a 2.0t. t3/t4 turbo though. i don't know what the one on the kit is.



_Modified by Flipdriver80 at 6:28 PM 1-4-2008_


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## mulberrygolf4dr (Jul 6, 2006)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (Flipdriver80)*

is that 10 PSI with no headspacer and stock internals? if so, is it your everyday? and if so, any problems?


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## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (mulberrygolf4dr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mulberrygolf4dr* »_is that 10 PSI with no headspacer and stock internals? if so, is it your everyday? and if so, any problems?

its my toy car. its got a bbm headspacer. 83mm wiseco pistons, and a fully rebuilt block and head. no problems to note so far but i'm running megasquirt so any software you get will prob be little different.


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## mulberrygolf4dr (Jul 6, 2006)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (Flipdriver80)*

nice. im still on stock internals, no headspacer, running a mitsu td05h turbo (ported and clipped). Im at 7psi running nicely, but scared to go any more without a spacer. any suggestions? its my daily also.


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## mulberrygolf4dr (Jul 6, 2006)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (mulberrygolf4dr)*

#42 injectors, c2 software, FMIC too.


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## Fastbreakstar22 (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (DaBeeterEater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DaBeeterEater* »_should have got a vr6 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

geez...








not too much i can do about that now though. vr have the sexy sounding engine tho. i thought about swapping for a little while but now i decided to go turbo. you almost make it sound like a waste of time...
10psi took out a 350z? thats nice.
im still curious about the other cars i listed above.
i know weak vr took down an sti with his VR motor running 6psi. 
what is that 'equivalent to on a 2.0t?"

well can anyone give my an hp estimate on this setup (should be done by next week) and psi i should run:
stage 2 kinetic turbo kit
stage 2 clutch and pp from performance cafe
custom lightweight flywheel
c2 head spacer
stock internals
at 270 cam with new springs.
tt high flow cat
tt 2.5" exhaust with borla muffler
hoping to run @ least 12psi if possible? any ideas?
_Modified by Fastbreakstar22 at 3:47 AM 1-5-2008_


_Modified by Fastbreakstar22 at 2:59 PM 1-5-2008_


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## crazysccrmd (Mar 31, 2006)

depends on how much you want to push it. im running 13lbs on my vrt, stock compression. im sure with your low compression you could run pretty decent amount. are you going to intercool it? if not, go with meth. a simple non-progressive setup is less than $200 and does wonders


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (Fastbreakstar22)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fastbreakstar22* »_

hoping to run @ least 12psi if possible? any ideas?


You should be into the 200's on ~12psi.

-Jeff


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## scrapper (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (Fastbreakstar22)*

My old VR6 set with kinetics stage 1 
With no boost controler.
Most likely making 6lbs of boost.
Stock "*automatic trans*"
stock everything else
*Claimed the fame of:*
350z gave him a car nnn swamped him by 3 
90 something Camaro
plenty of Hondas and a Cobalt just to name a few...
But never Dyno'd nn its not a MK3 just thaught i'd add nnn should be a blast no matter what year...


_Modified by scrapper at 2:07 PM 1-5-2008_


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## Fastbreakstar22 (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: (crazysccrmd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazysccrmd* »_depends on how much you want to push it. im running 13lbs on my vrt, stock compression. im sure with your low compression you could run pretty decent amount. are you going to intercool it? if not, go with meth. a simple non-progressive setup is less than $200 and does wonders 

stage 2 kinetic turbo kit comes with the intercooler http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








i plan to use the intercooler *AND* meth.


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## Fastbreakstar22 (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
You should be into the 200's on ~12psi.

-Jeff

are you saying with the exhaust, 12 psi , and (most likely meth), i would only make the early 200s?
i thought the kit was rated 200whp @ ~5psi?
dang...








if i do get meth, ill turn the boost up to maybe 15 or so.







depends on what my mechanic says. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Fastbreakstar22 at 2:59 PM 1-5-2008_


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (Fastbreakstar22)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fastbreakstar22* »_
are you saying with the exhaust, 12 psi , and (most likely meth), i would only make the early 200s?
i thought the kit was rated 200whp @ ~5psi?
dang...








if i do get meth, ill turn the boost up to maybe 15 or so.







depends on what my mechanic says. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by Fastbreakstar22 at 2:59 PM 1-5-2008_

No actualy it depends what your knock sensor says.....
Your Mechanic will tell the computer nothing..and if he does it will not listen or care....
I5 psi will retard timing like no tomorrow..been there done that

and 5 psi will get you ...well not much....just a tease and not much else


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## scrapper (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (Salsa GTI)*

Im confused a stock VRT "kinetics kit" at 5lbs let's say about 180 whp to get above 200 whp you'll need about 12lbs of boost. That's like 3hp at 1 lb of boost. 
Also at that time you might run into issues with the knock sesor.
Is that perseption correct or am i looking at it hmmm wrong.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (scrapper)*

No cornfusion.
200's is on a 2L ABA at ~10-12psi.

What is the issue here?
a STOCK aba puts down ~100whp.
Theoretically to add 100% power you need to run ~14-15psi.
I'd consider ~200whp on 10-12psi a good set-up.
On 42# software and head spacer, no meth is 'required' up to ~20psi boost. I don't think there is much gain in water/meth injection until you're getting close to inj. max. (275-300whp)
-Jeff


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## scrapper (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (Jefnes3)*

Interesting! Didn't Really ever think about that.
So by lowing compression this only gives you the ability for more boost inturn more whp. So if i want 550 whp how much boost is that like?


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## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (scrapper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *scrapper* »_Interesting! Didn't Really ever think about that.
So by lowing compression this only gives you the ability for more boost inturn more whp. So if i want 550 whp how much boost is that like?

it really depends on the turbo size. a 1.8t turbo at 20 PSI is making right around 200 to th wheels. with the 5 valve per cylinder head it can flow a lot of air. throw a large turbo like a gt35r on it and run 20 PSI you are well over 300 HP. but a gt35r is laughing at you at 20psi. run 35 psi on a gt35r and you'll sing your way past 500 hp. but you need to think about engine components as well. just buying a big turbo isn't going to make you 500hp. it goes back to a very famous saying in the racing world. "going fast costs money, how fast do you want to go?"
good luck with the car and don;t ever let anyone tell you a 2.0t is slow. with the right setup you'll be mopping up n/a vr's and 1.8t's with no problem. my good friend has the fastest n/a vr i've ever driven or been in and he didn't stand a chance







. plus you can finally make an SRT-4 owner put his foot in his mouth
























by the way here's my dyno sheet from a few months ago
obd1 block, wiseco pistons, BBM head spacer, t3/t4 50 trim, FMIC, much more... lol
i dyno'd it at a very conservative *10PSI* ( the engine is still breaking in, only about 5000 miles on it)

















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
_Modified by Flipdriver80 at 10:41 PM 1-5-2008_


_Modified by Flipdriver80 at 10:45 PM 1-5-2008_


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## scrapper (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (Flipdriver80)*

Good info to know thanks... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 








That's Dank!................Oldssss-cool.....................................

_Modified by scrapper at 7:51 PM 1-5-2008_


_Modified by scrapper at 7:53 PM 1-5-2008_


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## Fastbreakstar22 (Nov 4, 2005)

Thanks for the tips guys.
So i assume the next step in running more boost is lowering compression with better pistons etc?


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (Fastbreakstar22)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fastbreakstar22* »_Thanks for the tips guys.
So i assume the next step in running more boost is lowering compression with *better pistons *etc?

No you do not need better anything to run low compression.
It depends on your budget.
You just need a head spacer and head studs to make this happen.
Then you can run up to 20psi Like Jeff Stated above.
I've been running 20psi for a few months now..and need to return to the dyno to get new numbers..."house painting and moving plans get in the way of things like car tuning"
The C2 440 program will get you 275-300whp depending on your setup.
And that's plenty....believe me








Here is my H20 dyno with bad fuel pump and TT 268 cam....
Berry bad fuel cut ended the dyno run far short of 7000 rpm where it now pulls strong to.








Oh and forget about traction in the first 2 gears...at any speed....3rd is questionable also....
And be damn sure to have a firm grip on the wheel when boost goes past 15......as things get weird...in a good way








Post Whoring.........


















_Modified by Salsa GTI at 9:50 AM 1-6-2008_


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (Fastbreakstar22)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fastbreakstar22* »_
geez...








not too much i can do about that now though. vr have the sexy sounding engine tho. i thought about swapping for a little while but now i decided to go turbo. you almost make it sound like a waste of time...



no dude im just messing with ya, do it to it, run like 20 lbs on that thing and see what she does and have fun with it lol, 
i just love my vrt, so a 2.0 is not really my style but i would like to do one for my daily


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## VWDugan (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: Anyone Dyno Their MK3 Stage 2 Kinetic Turbo? (DaBeeterEater)*

i ran my old 2.0T at 12psi daily....no headspaces, no headstuds, dtock chip and stock injectors with a stoopid fmu.....didnt have any issues at all and that car ripped....


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## Fastbreakstar22 (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
No you do not need better anything to run low compression.
It depends on your budget.
You just *need a head spacer and head studs* to make this happen.
Then you can run up to 20psi Like Jeff Stated above.
I've been running 20psi for a few months now..and need to return to the dyno to get new numbers...


Only a head spacer and head studs for up to 20psi?
i have the head spacer already, i just need the studs. that seems kinda fishy, you sure about that?








so your saying i could technically run 20psi with both of those things? im sure even thought i have the clutch installed, i would definitely need some beef in my tranny. btw, nice numbers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

depends on the size of the turbo...20psi on a K03 is like 12-14psi on a WRX turbo (which i have)







20psi on a 50trim...thats another story...DO IT!!


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## Fastbreakstar22 (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_q_jet* »_depends on the size of the turbo...20psi on a K03 is like 12-14psi on a WRX turbo (which i have)







20psi on a 50trim...thats another story...DO IT!!

oh, well i dont know what turbo comes with the kit, it only says:
"if a non-intercooled turbo set-up isn't enough for you, then try our Stage II 2.0 Turbo kit. partnering a T3/T4 turbocharger (with a .48 AR exhaust housing) with our Proprietary exhaust manifold and an all powder coated charge pipe assembly, and our front mount intercooler setup, this kit pushes 200 hp to the front wheels. Complete with 42# injectors and C2 software this kit is bound to give any unsuspecting subaru a run for it's money."


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## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: (Fastbreakstar22)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fastbreakstar22* »_
Only a head spacer and head studs for up to 20psi?
i have the head spacer already, i just need the studs. that seems kinda fishy, you sure about that?








so your saying i could technically run 20psi with both of those things? im sure even thought i have the clutch installed, i would definitely need some beef in my tranny. btw, nice numbers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


Salsa GTI knows what he's talking about and i can attest to this as well as he may be able to. 
When i first got my car running i used stock head studs but was still using the spacer. i had the car running well and was consistantly raising the boost until finally i was running the thing daily at 17PSI and spiking at 20 PSI on occasion when iwas really ripping it. then on e day i was ripping it around town and boom white smoke out the exhaust. blown headgasket. its safe to say i got a little ahead of myself. so i took the head off, got some studs and haven't had any boost related issues since then. the only thing i need to do right now is get the head milled flat again. it was rebuilt but not decked and its leaking some oil out the sides. 
you should do some reading on head studs and how they work from a technical aspect. you'd be supprised how much of an upgrade they are.

standard head studs on an 8v are stretch bolts as you may know. when torqued to their last torque spec the head stud is under a tremendous amount of stress because the head stud is basically pulling the head towards the block because the stud doesn't reach the bottom of the threaded hole. the stud is relying on its tensile (pulling) strength to keep the head fastened to the block. plus you can only torque stock bolts to 45 lbs 
Upgraded head studs come in three parts, stud, washer, nut. the stud is screwed into the block until it reaches the ends of the thread. you actually have to torque ARP's studs to 12lbs (i believe). then the washer goes on and then finally the nut. since the arp studs are stronger they can be torqued to 80lbs or more depending on the application. the reason behind the success of the head stud is because the actual stud itself screws all the way to the bottom of the threads in the block. there is no (tensile) pulling stress on the stud. the nut at the top is clamping the head to the block at a more consistant pressure wich ends up being stronger and a ton more reliable. plus you can use them again.
there is a diagram showing in better detail (pictures are always best) in the book Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. if you want to know more about the world of boost read that book. 
BTW when i took the head off after i blew the gasket over half of the bolts i turned out with no effort at all and 1 of them came out by hand. i was dumbfounded. and i torqued them all to spec and in the right sequence. 
good luck. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (Flipdriver80)*

Stretch bolts and boost are not good together.
For the record I'm a cheep bastard so I'm running stacked copper sprayed Victor Reinz gaskets with arp studs.
My turbo is a turbonetics T3/To4B S trim stage 2...with a .68 exhaust housing...which maxes out in efficiency wise at 25 psi
The Kinetics it a T3 50trim with a .48 exhaust housing stage zero....why they don't just say that is beyond me.
So that will flow a little more air than my b turbo but .48 exhaust housing will hurt top end a little.
And reading that book is a great idea as well.
Jeff says 19psi is about the limit for the 440 program so 19-21 is pretty much it...again depending on the setup and AF ratios...watch the wide band closely and your Vag Com data logs for timing pull and or knock.
And boost away......For the record none of the local STI's or WRX's have the stones to out run my car...I'm sure thes is sombody out there with somthing better than a warmed over stock turbo and exaust...but I have not found them yet....also stage 2 SRT4's =slow Collbalt SS's...who cares....Corvetts and mustangs are where the fun is.
The old dudes get pissed when they lose to the silly little GTI


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_Stretch bolts and boost are not good together.
For the record I'm a cheep bastard so I'm running stacked copper sprayed Victor Reinz gaskets with arp studs.
My turbo is a turbonetics T3/To4B S trim stage 2...with a .68 exhaust housing...which maxes out in efficiency wise at 25 psi
The Kinetics it a T3 50trim with a .48 exhaust housing stage zero....why they don't just say that is beyond me.
So that will flow a little more air than my b turbo but .48 exhaust housing will hurt top end a little.
And reading that book is a great idea as well.
Jeff says 19psi is about the limit for the 440 program so 19-21 is pretty much it...again depending on the setup and AF ratios...watch the wide band closely and your Vag Com data logs for timing pull and or knock.
And boost away......For the record none of the local STI's or WRX's have the stones to out run my car...I'm sure thes is sombody out there with somthing better than a warmed over stock turbo and exaust...but I have not found them yet....also stage 2 SRT4's =slow Collbalt SS's...who cares....Corvetts and mustangs are where the fun is.
The old dudes get pissed when they lose to the silly little GTI








i'm a hater!


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_q_jet* »_i'm a hater!























You are my hero


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
You are my hero








Awwww shucks thank you darling!


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## Fastbreakstar22 (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_Stretch bolts and boost are not good together.
For the record I'm a cheep bastard so I'm running stacked copper sprayed Victor Reinz gaskets with arp studs.
My turbo is a turbonetics T3/To4B S trim stage 2...with a .68 exhaust housing...which maxes out in efficiency wise at 25 psi
The Kinetics it a T3 50trim with a .48 exhaust housing stage zero....why they don't just say that is beyond me.
So that will flow a little more air than my b turbo but .48 exhaust housing will hurt top end a little.
And reading that book is a great idea as well.
Jeff says 19psi is about the limit for the 440 program so 19-21 is pretty much it...again depending on the setup and AF ratios...watch the wide band closely and your Vag Com data logs for timing pull and or knock.
And boost away......For the record none of the local STI's or WRX's have the stones to out run my car...I'm sure thes is sombody out there with somthing better than a warmed over stock turbo and exaust...but I have not found them yet....also stage 2 SRT4's =slow Collbalt SS's...who cares....Corvetts and mustangs are where the fun is.
The old dudes get pissed when they lose to the silly little GTI









Ok. thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I guess I should get some ARP head studs too then - anyone have a link?
Ill make sure I keep the boost lower than 19psi and if i do turn it up, 19psi will be the max.
What about the tranny? i have a stg2 clutch and pp and l/w flywheel but what about the differential? i heard they break very easy.

Other than that, I cant wait to get this thing up and running. Ill post pics & info later.


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## Surfgreenguitar5 (Nov 14, 2006)

i bought the kinetic stage one for my vr and made a custom intercooler set up. i'ma little wuss and top it at 12 psi and i have arp headstuds and a eip headspacer. i'm afraid to go any higher with stock internals. my buddy ran 13 psi for a couple years then the rings started to go.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_Stretch bolts and boost are not good together.
For the record I'm a cheep bastard so I'm running stacked copper sprayed Victor Reinz gaskets with arp studs.
My turbo is a turbonetics T3/To4B S trim stage 2...with a .68 exhaust housing...which maxes out in efficiency wise at 25 psi
The Kinetics it a T3 50trim with a .48 exhaust housing stage zero....why they don't just say that is beyond me.
So that will flow a little more air than my b turbo but .48 exhaust housing will hurt top end a little.
And reading that book is a great idea as well.
Jeff says 19psi is about the limit for the 440 program so 19-21 is pretty much it...again depending on the setup and AF ratios...watch the wide band closely and your Vag Com data logs for timing pull and or knock.
And boost away......For the record none of the local STI's or WRX's have the stones to out run my car...I'm sure thes is sombody out there with somthing better than a warmed over stock turbo and exaust...but I have not found them yet....also stage 2 SRT4's =slow Collbalt SS's...who cares....Corvetts and mustangs are where the fun is.
The old dudes get pissed when they lose to the silly little GTI









I don't mean to step on any toes, but the T04B S trim compressor peaks @ ~15 psi, not 25. Most of the B compressors are this way. I actually ran a T3/T04B Super-S trim (yes, super-s, no, not super-60), with a stage 1 wheel in a .48, and I thought it spooled too quickly on my 2.0L, though, it was fun. Also, there is no .68 housing in the T3s, so, yours is probably a .63. And the standard turbine wheel is a stage 1 ... Hehehe, I'm just being an ******* today!!
I looked at the kinetic site, and can't seem to find any specs on the turbo used for the 2.0L kits. They simply claim to use a T3/T4, which as we know, covers a lot of ground. If it's a T3/T04E 50 trim, which I doubt, then yes it would flow more than your T3/T04B, but judging from the pic, and claimed power output of the kit, it would seem they are using a T3 60 trim, which is just about the same size as the T04B S trim compressor.
Anyways, felt a little nerdy today, sorry.
Anyone have any pics of their Kinetic kit installed? I'd be curious to see.
+ points to all the guys who spent time on here helping out others. Very cool of you! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

i know someone who has the kit..i'll let you know...last i heard it was a t3/t4 50trim with a .48 a/r


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## Fastbreakstar22 (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: (Agtronic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Agtronic* »_
Anyways, felt a little nerdy today, sorry.
Anyone have any pics of their Kinetic kit installed? I'd be curious to see.
+ points to all the guys who spent time on here helping out others. Very cool of you! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

No, I didnt get it installed yet. Im waiting for it to come in now. Everything is ordered. The car goes in the shop next wednesday. ill take pictures etc later and post the good news. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
(on a different thread though)


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