# Frankenturbo F23 & Wavetrac LSD build Southbend Clutch Mk4 Mkiv 2003 1.8t DIY...



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

Hello, 

Reason for this thread is to highlight my experience both negative and positive about the following: 



Companies I have dealt with 

Review of the products and where to purchase for the best deal 

Detailed instructions about the FT F23 install Link to Product 

Detailed instructions about WAVETRAC LSD Install Link to Product 

Southbend Clutch Stage II Endurance Install Link to Product 

Maestro Tuning Software - Eurodyne Link to product 

 

I am not one to take shortcuts and cheap out on things because i'd rather get it done right the and not have to worry about things failing due to my own negligence.....(yes i am not going with rods, as my goal is to find the safest limits without having to split my motor....this will be future upgrade). 

Well i finally got all my parts and i'm almost ready for the install aside from a few gaskets, washers, studs & nuts which i should have by Tuesday. I would of had these parts lined up if i knew i would have needed them and was aware of exactly which part numbers to order. 

*Section 1* 

*Frankenturbo:* 
I dealt directly with Doug to find out more information about the F23 & F4 Turbo as i was unsure of which to buy. Doug was an excellent source of information regarding his products and he took the time to explain the benefits of each. In short, here are the best way to differentiate the two turbo's. 

Price (according to FT website) - bosche 550cc injectors also included: 
F4 turbo kit alone $1,149.00 
F23 Turbo kit alone $1,647.00 

The above prices do not include additional gaskets, washers, studs, bolts & nuts needed for the install. 

The next question you should ask yourself is this: 

Am i looking for a replacement turbo for my blown k03/k04 or am i looking to upgrade my turbo without getting into a Garret. 

Euroline Performance: 
Now i am from Canada Eh! so i went through a dealer up here named Euroline Performance. I paid a total of 1950.00 CDN Cash to get the F23 Turbo which included the following: 


__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










I am not sure yet what the three bolts are for.....hopefully i will find out. 

I will update this section once my dealings with Euroline Performance have concluded.... 




*JRP Performance:* 

http://www.jrponline.com/cs/ 

I originally went directly to Wavetrac for their LSD and they were a great help but it was advised/easier to go through one of their Canadian dealer JRP. Both companies were a pleasure to deal with and i highly recommend them to anyone. 

Upon choosing an LSD, i had three to choose from: 

Quaife 
Peloquin 
Wavetrac 

The prices were all very similar so it just came down to which was best. With all my research it ended up being a no brainer. Although Quaife and Peloquin are reputable, Wavetrac was the best built and offered a superior product. 

And as a bonus, their customer service was excellent and to get a great product and great customer service together is becoming pretty rare these days. 

I will post up some before and after videos of driving with a comparison of stock vs Wavetrac. 


*VAG Motorsport* 

http://www.vagmotorsport.ca/fr/index.php 
450-661-0429 

I chose to go with a DXD Southbend SMF Stage II Endurance clutch & Flywheel. Again the customer service at Southbend was excellent and VAG Motosports as well....I dealt with Matt 


*Eurodyne Software* 

http://www.eurodyne.ca/eurodyne_maestro_tuning_suite.php 

Now this wasn't my first choice and it was because i wasn't aware of them but man was i happy when i was told about them...I was originally going to go with Unitronic. 

The main decision on this was how i would be able to adjust and play with the tuning software....which could not be done unitronic. So example, if i did an upgrade, id have to pay more money. 

Another key feature of the Eurodyne software package is it comes with 2 step which works great! 



*Section 2* 

*FrankeTurbo F23* 

So upon reviewing what i received for the F23, i needed to order some additional stuff for the install. Some people will disagree with what i ordered but i find it necessary. 

I went to my local VW Audi dealership with my turbo and manifold so we could fit on the gaskets to make sure they were the right ones. Here is the list: 

1x Gasket between the turbo & exhaust manifold - waiting on gasket to make sure its the right 
1x 058 253 039L -Exhaust Manifold gasket. You want to make sure its the metal one. 
13x N 044 411 5 - exhaust manifold studs that go into the head 
13x N 902 002 01 - exhaust manifold nuts 
3x N 907 678 01 - Turbo outlet studs for exhaust Downpipe 
6x N 903 690 01 - Exhaust down pipe nuts(3) Attach Turbo to Manifold nuts(3) 
1x 058 145 757 A - Turbocharger Oil Line Gasket 
1x 058 145 757 C - Turbocharger Oil Line Gasket 
8x N 013 814 9 - SEALING WASHER for oil/coolant lines 
4x N 013 851 4 - SEALING WASHER for oil/coolant lines - different size than above 
1x - gasket between turbo and exhaust downpipe - waiting on part # 

Total Price 172.18 cdn. 

I know i will not need all of these but its good to have during the install incase some things need replacement. What ever i dont use, i will be returning. 

_I will come back to this part...._ 

Here are just some random pics of the products... 


__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view











I think this is how it goes together...  

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view












To be continued....


----------



## XMB (Apr 10, 2008)

subscribed...looks to be a good thread.:thumbup:


----------



## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

nice starting write up. 
more pics. and do werk!:laugh: 
:beer:


----------



## falsy (Jul 14, 2010)

Awesome as i plan to do the f23! More pics  Subscribed!


----------



## mk4boost (Jul 31, 2010)

awesome!, i love my f23, and doug is the man, totally there for anyone who needs/wants some help... 

those 3 bolts look like they would be for the turbo-manifold... but there are also studs, i'm guessing you get to choose which ones youde want to use? 

edit: i'm on my stock bottom end for now as well, been like that almost a year, just keep the boost to a safe level and your good


----------



## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Nicely detailed so far - looking forward to updates


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

okay so i began the install today.....and this is gonna take some time.....i am already 6 hours into it and this is what i have done....p.s. bare with me because i haven't done anything like this since my 1983 rabbit gti back in highschool - over 14 years ago! 

So obviously you want to jack up the car as high as possible because work gets done under the car as well. 

be sure to protect your car with what ever you can on the fenders and bumpers: 


















So my first step was to remove the air box: 









After doing this, your intake is exposed much more and you can see everything that is plugged into it. Start taking things off the intake and free it up. 

















BTW, you may have clips like this on your hoses.....you will need to break them off without damaging the hose and using normal hose clamps. 

















So once your intake is all cleared up from the hoses, you will find a master clip at the base. This needs to be removed and you can take off the intake. 

















now you will have your intercooler hoses within reach....take off the heat wrap....they unbotten like a tshirt.....or a bra  

















You may not need to do this but i removed that intercooler pipe (im probably calling it by its wrong name. there will be two clamps with 2 nuts on each that will need to be removed. Once that is done, you will need to take off your passanger front wheel and get at this hose clamp. 









Once that is off, the intercooler pipe will come right off. 









This freed up much more room for me to work with the exhaust manifold, turbo, and downpipe. 

























Next you wanna remove the heat shield on the head so you can get at the exhaust manifold. it is just one bolt but the turbo inlet pipe is blocking its escape. so i bent it back a bit to take out the three bolts holding the turbo to the exhaust manifold. 










here is the bolt.... 

















At this point i removed my downpipe. Thankfully it was just put on 3 months ago so i had no problems removing it....but the heat shield above it caused some problems...so i removed that as well. 


















Now keep in mind, i had a vband on the other end of the exhaust so i could just remove it after unbolting it from the turbo. If you haven't upgraded your exhaust, you may have difficulties with this part. 


So the next step was to remove the turbo and exhaust manifold....which ended up being a complete pain. you couldn't access all the exhaust manifold bolts cause of the turbo. so i kept going from the turbo to the manifold removing each one slowly. in hindsight, i would have removed all the oil/coolant lines first. I didn't remove any of those from the turbo as i wanted to keep them in tact to know where everything went on the new turbo. so make sure to remove it from the other ends. Trace the lines and you will figure it out. It is good to have a spotter to see what is moving and trace it... 

One of the oil lines goes directly to the oil filter housing...This is a bit of a pain to get too but you need to remove everything above it - or fold it away... 









the bolt is under the black plastic....just slide that black plastic thing off its mount and you will see it....its an allen key. 









you can see how the way is cleared better know to expose the oil line. 









and there is the bolt.. 









notice the mount holding it in place. this will need to be removed to remove the line: 










Okay here is where i fought with the line for a good 20minutes trying to remove it from the engine bay.....oh yes, i disconnected it from the turbo as well..but this was the only line i did. 

so because of all the bends and brackets on the oil line, i couldn't get it out. i debated keeping it there and re-using it but i was unsure if it would be ok. the new lines that came with the kit are much bigger so i am assuming it has a higher flow rate to keep the turbo cooler....so i made the executive decision and.... 

Here is a pic of the coolant line hose to the turbo from under the car: 



















yup i cut the line....took a lot of man strength cause i was too lazy to get out my cutter - it was pretty late and i was tired. 

so now that the turbo was basically free, i had to undo one more bolt holding it in close to the oil pan. now the problem i found trying to undo this bolt was i couldn't get enough leverage to crack it free from under the car. from the top, i couldn't do it either.....so i came up with this long long extension.... 









you can access the bolt from the passanger side wheel bay and stick it all the way through to the bolt. i then used a johnson bar to crack it and done! 

So now the turbo was just hanging there and mostly out of my way so i could get at the rest of the exuahst manifold bolts.... 

sorry i dont have pics of that but its pretty straight forward. 

Exhaust manifold came out very easily and i had no issues with the bolts. i didn't even have to use penetrating oil on them. 

so then i pulled the turbo out from the top of the car - very tight fit. maybe it could have fit through the bottem but i didnt want to get back under due to one of the coolant lines i disconnected from the motor leaked a bit on the ground. 


Here are the two turbos side by side.


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

So now i am stumped.....which is why i stopped tonight. 

I sent an email to doug hoping he would help out but im gonna check with you guys as well since one or some of you said you did this already.. 

I have no clue wth goes here! i am assuming its an empty spot for a gauge reading for the turbo temp or exaust temp??? So what do you guys recommend i do? Just put a bolt in there or what?? 









My second dilemma was taking the hoses from the one turbo to the new one. this kit came with a thread to thread adapter. I am having problems tightening the lines to the turbo and my only conclusion is that i need to split the turbo's intake side to tighten everything down properly....this true?? 

I am beat and gonna hit the sack so i can get back on this tomorrow. Hopefully i will have this resolved so i can go ahead and get the car finished.


----------



## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

outstanding right up.:thumbup: 
very detailed. 
what tune are you going with?


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hondss said:


> So now i am stumped.....which is why i stopped tonight.
> 
> I sent an email to doug hoping he would help out but im gonna check with you guys as well since one or some of you said you did this already..
> 
> ...


 Looks like an EGT gauge spot. you can grab a bung from ACE hardware that will fit it. But a steel bolt will probably be better. 

As for the hoses that you arent sure about, which hoses? sounds like you are talking about oil lines


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> outstanding right up.:thumbup:
> very detailed.
> what tune are you going with?


 im going with the eurodyne tune with 550cc injectors. 



Dub-Nub said:


> Looks like an EGT gauge spot. you can grab a bung from ACE hardware that will fit it. But a steel bolt will probably be better.
> 
> As for the hoses that you arent sure about, which hoses? sounds like you are talking about oil lines


 Yes you are right about the egt gauge spot. i actually ran around town for 2 hours trying to find the right thread for it....and no luck so i just shoved a bolt in there. 

as for the lines, i figured that out as well and i will detail what i did right now....but i need help with another issue now.


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

Okay so today was just as involved as i wanted to solve the two problems i mentioned last night. 

So first regarding the threaded hole i didn't know what to do with..... 

my f23 kit was missing a bolt for this hole to cover it up....so i had to find one. The thread is as follows: M12 Size, 12mm Length, 1.25mm Pitch, Fine Thread - in case anyone needs to know. 

So here is the only solution i could get due to lack of supplies at stores......i kinda wish it didn't have a washer but im sure i wont hear it rattle.... 











Now regarding the oil line on the turbo and questioning how to tighten it....after a few emails back and forth with Doug, it was mentioned i would have to split the turbo as i thought to get on the one oil line. 

So just remove the 4 10mm nuts holding it in place and the housing comes right off... 










the big part is tightening it and having the hose point the right direction...... 

its a tight fit... 









This is what it should look like after with the housing back on....it MUST be right against it. 










































Here are the pics of the rest of the lines of the turbo....they must all be pointing in these directions in order to hook them up with the car....it took me a few tries of putting the turbo in and out to make sure.... 


































Okay so the turbo is all ready to be put in...but before i do that, i am going to install my 550cc injectors. 

There are two allan key bolts that hold the rail in place....i took them off at the start but you can leave them on until you remove the black plastic casing holding in the wires for the injectors. 











notice in the above picture i have the black plastic caps flipped up...you need to do that as well...its just two clips per cover. i needed to use two small screw drivers to pry it open. 


You will need to unplug your TPS from the throttle body to give yourself more slack: 









at this point, if you didn't remove the two allan key bolts, they need to be removed to take off the plastic housing for the electrical on the injectors. 

You will now need to unplug this one as well: 











its almost off.. 









Now with it off .. 









You may not need to do this but i chose too.....remove the two fuel lines to the injectors: 


















Now the fuel rail will move around with ease....now you just lift straight up and pull the injectors out with the fuel rail. 











The injectors are held in with these clips that are very easy to take off... 









New & old injectors: 









Anyone know what stock injector size is? 

Here they are installed: 









Now just slide them back into their holes and reverse the order of the install and you are done with the injectors.


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

So the new problem i have is when trying to mount the turbo. 

The problem is with my heater hoses going into the firewall. They are just in the way to of where the turbo should go. 

I first slid the turbo in then i put the exhaust manifold on but i couldn't get the turbo up to the mounting spot.....also it seems as htough i will not be using the stock bottom mounting bracket of the turbo....but i could be wrong. 



















Its this metal section of the heater hose that is causing me all the grief...SOMEONE HELP as i hear this is common! 









i am guessing these hoses need to be removed and a new set need to be retrofitted on. Someone CHIME IN!


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

can you not rotate position of compressor housing so it points up?


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

Dub-Nub said:


> can you not rotate position of compressor housing so it points up?


 The turbo is just hanging there as its not mounted.....it will end up pointing up but im just having trouble getting it to the right spot. 

I should of taken a pic of the turbo wedged in with the hoses...but i forgot and im too tired to get back out. 

It seems as though people remove the hoses and install braided line hoses to make this possible..but im still searching online now.


----------



## 87vr6 (Jan 17, 2002)

When this thread is "done" it needs to go to the faq. 

I applaud you for being this thorough on the write up, and I applaud you for doing the new hardware thing. I too have a build going on and i'm the same way.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hondss said:


> I should of taken a pic of the turbo wedged in with the hoses...but i forgot and im too tired to get back out.
> 
> It seems as though people remove the hoses and install braided line hoses to make this possible..but im still searching online now.


 dude, all i can say is that the oil feed is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY too close to the exhaust manifold. The manifold can get red hot...that oil will get cooked.


----------



## Maxpowerz (Feb 9, 2004)

for the coolant lines i remember i bent them down towards the tranny, never had issues with them. 

for the oil line wow. um just use the stock line and unbend the 2 bends a little. takes 5mins and its free:beer: for return line you will have to use the non stock one.


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

looks like an EGT gauge spot. 

However, that thread is 1/8" NPT. That's pipe thread. AKA, a tapered thread. You can't just stick a normal bolt in it. A bolt has straight threads. 

Go to Ace hardware and look in the plumbing aisle. Get a stainless steel 1/8" NPT plug. 

Hopefully you didn't try to tighten that bolt up in there too hard. 

.... 

As to the oil feed, here's my thoughts... 

I think you need to remove your compressor housing completely.Then rotate it so the outlet points in roughly the right direction. Then choose the proper bolt holes so your wastegate actuator bracket is correct. Then use the other (2)?? hold down plates to bolt your compressor into the right clocking lightly. I say lightly so you can adjust it upon final install. 

I think this rotation of the housing outlet plus the movement of the wastegate actuator bracket will allow the oil feed line to not have to rub up against the exhaust manifold.


----------



## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

this make me want to sell my F4H and get a F23.


----------



## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

Some helphttp://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3562254


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

This oil line orientation completely stinks. Raamy, THANK YOU for posting up these excellent pics of the dry-fit. Granted, these lines are free with the turbo, but they're still supposed to work 100%. I'm going to change the fitting on these so it's not clumsy like this. :thumbup:


----------



## mk4boost (Jul 31, 2010)

I wish I took half the amount of pictures you did, this is great... I think I took like 3 pictures of my f23 and that's about it . now it's all used and abused haha 


awesome write up man, can't wait until you get it done :beer:


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Hey Honds ... awesome detailed thread! 

Word of advice for the heater core lines. You have three options: 

1) unbolt yours from the the side of the block and bend it out of the way ( it needs some muscling but that's what I did). 
2) cut yours and run your own heater core lines 
3) buy the Audi tt 225 heater core line setup and run that.


----------



## rains (May 30, 2008)

good thread :thumbup:


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

Okay Day 3 is in the books!...... 

so i last left of with the heater line problem......Well i certainly fixed that! 

So remove the heater lines completely from the car. 









you have to use a small screw driver or pick(sp?) and pry the metal "U" clip off it the plugs remove them 


















So here, you have plenty options......I unfortunately did not because i was unaware of having to do this mod due to being new and all. 

So options are to order a braided line coolant hose kit or mod the existing hose with the purchase of some new hoses, 90 degree fitting, straight fitting and tons of clamps... 

I dont want to wait around for parts so i modded mine. 

first you will need to take off the heat wrap 









then cut the black tape and tear the hose apart slowly. 

you will need to hook the hose back up and start to plan your new route. 
Also keep in mind, the longer hose goes to the left fitting and shorter hose goes to the right fitting. 









i was fortunate to go by my friends shop and grab this tool which was super handy in cutting down the metal coolant line that was in the way of the turbo.... 









This was my first cut.....i didn't take too much off. 









I then tried to fit the turbo in place but still had issues... 
In this pic you can see the problem....the metal coolant line has no way to go past the intake tube. 









So i cut it down to where the little threaded stud sticks out.....you will need to cut off that stud as well to fit the hose as far down the metal hose as possible: 









The little shiny part on the metal line is where the little threaded stud use to be. 

So start figuring out your route....as shown: 









Keep in mind you will need to use pieces of your old hose for specific curves: 









As you can see here i switched the plugs.....i put the 75degree plug on the left side and the straight plug on the right side due to routing problems. 









Here are the finished products....yea they dont look AEM or anything but that wasn't my concern...they work and are solid. 









Here are the lines running under the turbo intake pipe completely out of the way: 









The connection: 









Under the intake pipe: 









I double clamped them for safety due to not having that rolled edge from stock: 
***edit...after installing the turbo and running the car, the coolant pipe I cut ended up leaking slightly. Reason being is because the metal pipe isn't completely round closer to the head. If you plan on doing this, make sure to place the hose and clamp around the rounded section or else it won't seal. If you can avoid cutting the metal pipe, i recommend it otherwise you will have to be very precise with the hose and clamp. 









My friend holding the line like a tea cup: 









So anyways.....take the lines back off and set them aside.... 

install your manifold but remember to put the turbo back there first and let it hang.....it may fit from the bottom up but i didn't wanna do extra work if i could avoid it. 

So here comes the NEXT problem.... 

On this manifold there are two nuts side by side that are very tight to put on....THEY ARE SO FREAKING TIGHT that you can't fit a socket or a wrench on them....so how do you tighten them? Like Magic.... 

I first tried to grind down my 13mm wrench to make it fit.. 

















anyways...this didn't work either.....i couldn't get at those two nuts tightened. so i took them back off and sat to think... 

And i got an epiphany......I called force Fed Engineering and wanted to know if they had any tricks..btw, this was the magic part  

And here is the trick!!....ready?!?!?! This made it so easy i laughed! 

























The car has 13mm socket sized nuts (8mmx1.25). FFE said they use 12mm socket sized nuts with the same specs.....and that made way more sense!! SO THAT IS THE TRICK! SOURCE THEM OUT. 

Here is the part number...it works almost everywhere...So pick up 3 of them minimum.... 

Part #059129601 

So anyways....you will need to firstly put these two nuts of first and tigthen down the manifold just with these....DO NOT PUT ANY OTHER NUTS ON ASIDE FROM THESE TWO.......they go side by side inbetween the 3rd and 4th manifold tube (manfild tubes closes to the driver side i am calling 3 &4). Anyways you will figure it out. 

Once you have the exhaust manifold tighten down....continue on with the rest of them. Once they are all on and tight...do your torquing. 

Check with a mirror or...a CD 










My next step was to mount the turbo. I chose to use the studs instead of the bolts. I used this bolt just to hold the turbo in place while i placed the studs in. 










While on the phone with FFE - he mentioned my specific manifold was made by him and it was milled so it was completely flat which meant i would not need to use a gasket....so i didn't put one in and we will see how it works. 










Turbo is in place, begin hooking up your coolant and oil lines. 

This one is the front of the motor: 



























Hook up your heater lines.... 

Hook up your down pipe... 

And next hook up your intercooler hose back on the passenger side wheel and then you will find this.... 










The elbow off the stock turbo isn't long enough because the turbo is now placed along the driverside of the motor rather then in the middle....so i had to stop working (and i was getting tired)...and will need to pick up a new flex tube tomorrow. 











So tomorrow will be a little bit of a brain killer because i will need to figure out how to route the lines going to the intake tube... 

So if everything goes well, i will be putting coolant & oil back in the car.......re-flashing it with maestro and turning the key!


----------



## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

so much detail.:thumbup: 
thats a pretty big gap between your charge pipe and F23. 
why don't you have a FMIC?


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> so much detail.:thumbup:
> thats a pretty big gap between your charge pipe and F23.
> why don't you have a FMIC?


 I am lacking on the budget right now....


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

hondss said:


> I am lacking on the budget right now....


 Reaaaallllly....hmmm. Raamy, I just might have an idea for you then. It's surely obvious I owe you some swag at this point. Hehe.


----------



## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

:thumbup::thumbup: for this thread! 

SoO much useful info for anyone installing this turbo set up! 

I will be starting mine next week hopefully


----------



## babarber (Nov 3, 2008)

watchin :thumbup:


----------



## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Nice work! We have the same workbench and tools :beer:


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

Need some HELP PLS.... 

The following Valve - i think its the combi valve for vacuum....i can't figure out where it goes. I am not sure if it was off before i started or not because the previous owner had done some work to the car. 




















Actually i think i just found it... 

Its the line that goes to the stock k03 turbo....the f23 doesn't have this hookup so i am just gonna cap it off.


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

hondss said:


> Need some HELP PLS....
> 
> The following Valve - i think its the combi valve for vacuum....i can't figure out where it goes. I am not sure if it was off before i started or not because the previous owner had done some work to the car.
> 
> ...


 Go look in my FAQ. There are some great vac diagrams to reference


----------



## schneeebes85 (Jul 12, 2008)

:thumbup: Insane write up. I have F23 kit sitting next to me, just waiting on manifold from a fellow vortexer and an installation hardware kit from chris at CBtuning and will be having it installed. I told doug I would do a write up and review on F23 kit and CBtuning install kit but this one will just make mine look like a joke! ha 

In any event I will do some sort of write up/review on everything and mainly chris's install kit to give doug and chris feedback so it will hopefully be offered to future F23 kits:thumbup: 

Again, killer write up and continue doing work:thumbup:


----------



## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

updates? Im curious to know how you solved the turbo-charge pipe gap!opcorn:


----------



## VWBugman00 (Mar 17, 2009)

You could probably find some silicone at siliconeintakes.com and just make something that fits. Get a 90* and a straight piece to make it work. It's ghetto, but it'll get you on the road until you can get a proper intercooler on there. You'll also need a piece of piping to clamp to between the silicone pieces.


----------



## Audi_Mechanic (Mar 24, 2012)

I just completed the F23 install on my car and am completely happy with the results. Absolutely fabulous turbo for a daily driver. 

Installing the oil feed line with a cast iron manifold is a complete PAIN. The crimp on the banjo end of the line supplied with turbo is too long and inteferes. The 90 degree end is too tall to fit under a cast manifold. The oil feed from psi concepts is useless, only fits longitudinal 1.8's. It may work with a banjo fitting added but I just installed a new TT oil line because it was designed and bent to fit the k04. It was also a complete pain to install. I recommend to anyone doing a k04 install to mock up the turbo to manifold before they are bolted to the engine like the OP did, just so you wont deal with many hours of trial and error trying to use aftermarket oil feed lines like I had to go through. It also looks like a good idea to also purchase the tube manifold when buying the F23, just to make the oil feed install easier.

To anyone considering wether to buy an F23 for your daily driver, do it. You will not be disappointed. And Doug provides the best customer service I have ever experienced. His products are of a very high quality and are sold for a very cheap price. A rebuilt k04-23 from Audi retails for around $1600. Shipped to my door i recieved a new F23 that is modified to be more efficient than the standard k04 turbo, ceramic coated, and again new not rebuilt, a very high quality exhaust adapter that is thick, heavy, ceramic coated, and has thick flanges, a silicone turbo inlet hose, clamps, turbo mounting bolts, lock washers, a boostvalve manual boost controller, and all 4 new oil/coolant lines for less than $1300. What an incredible deal!


----------



## Niagara_V_Dub (Sep 25, 2007)

The build was a great read. But I doubt my skills and patience are up to this task.


----------



## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

How long were the allen head exhaust manifold studs? Im trying to make sure I got the right ones:thumbup:


----------



## schneeebes85 (Jul 12, 2008)

Audi_Mechanic said:


> I just completed the F23 install on my car and am completely happy with the results. Absolutely fabulous turbo for a daily driver.
> 
> Installing the oil feed line with a cast iron manifold is a complete PAIN. The crimp on the banjo end of the line supplied with turbo is too long and inteferes. The 90 degree end is too tall to fit under a cast manifold. The oil feed from psi concepts is useless, only fits longitudinal 1.8's. It may work with a banjo fitting added but I just installed a new TT oil line because it was designed and bent to fit the k04. It was also a complete pain to install. I recommend to anyone doing a k04 install to mock up the turbo to manifold before they are bolted to the engine like the OP did, just so you wont deal with many hours of trial and error trying to use aftermarket oil feed lines like I had to go through. It also looks like a good idea to also purchase the tube manifold when buying the F23, just to make the oil feed install easier.
> 
> To anyone considering wether to buy an F23 for your daily driver, do it. You will not be disappointed. And Doug provides the best customer service I have ever experienced. His products are of a very high quality and are sold for a very cheap price. A rebuilt k04-23 from Audi retails for around $1600. Shipped to my door i recieved a new F23 that is modified to be more efficient than the standard k04 turbo, ceramic coated, and again new not rebuilt, a very high quality exhaust adapter that is thick, heavy, ceramic coated, and has thick flanges, a silicone turbo inlet hose, clamps, turbo mounting bolts, lock washers, a boostvalve manual boost controller, and all 4 new oil/coolant lines for less than $1300. What an incredible deal!


Same problem here with oil feed line it just doesnt fit, car has been down for days, first one spewed out all oil after only running for few seconds from the crimp. I drove all way up to doug in new york because I can't keep being down, he gave me a new oil feed line with a banjo fitting on it. I got back into town and place tried to install it and same problem it hits the cast iron manifoild:banghead: Now I see someone else has/had same problem. I emailed doug last night to tell him new line with banjo didn't fit either and he said.."It sounds to me like they can't figure out how to use that line." Have them contact me directly. Tomorrow

It has nothing to do with any shop or person that would install it, it's the design

If anyone installing it would just tighten it down they have a 50/50 chance of it holding up or damaging the line BUT either way it's going to rest RIGHT against the manifold and cook the oil so your screwed regardless.


----------



## STOICH (Jun 21, 2010)

rodgertherabit said:


> How long were the allen head exhaust manifold studs? Im trying to make sure I got the right ones:thumbup:


Shank length is 30mm I do believe. I've got a box of them at home, so I can verify.

EDIT: To address the oil line; I think it's well understood that the oil line supplied without additional fittings will not work (at least not to my liking). If you are still having issues, I would just use your stock oil feed line until a fix is put in place. An oil leak on top of the turbo is not the best place to have an oil leak. 

I believe this can be solved by using a banjo>AN fitting off the turbo. I'll be testing this shortly as I have yet to run the SS line due to the above mentioned issues.


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

schneeebes85 said:


> Same problem here with oil feed line it just doesnt fit, car has been down for days, first one spewed out all oil after only running for few seconds from the crimp. I drove all way up to doug in new york because I can't keep being down, he gave me a new oil feed line with a banjo fitting on it. I got back into town and place tried to install it and same problem it hits the cast iron manifoild:banghead: Now I see someone else has/had same problem. I emailed doug last night to tell him new line with banjo didn't fit either and he said.."It sounds to me like they can't figure out how to use that line." Have them contact me directly. Tomorrow
> 
> It has nothing to do with any shop or person that would install it, it's the design
> 
> If anyone installing it would just tighten it down they have a 50/50 chance of it holding up or damaging the line BUT either way it's going to rest RIGHT against the manifold and cook the oil so your screwed regardless.


Hey man. Give me a call. Maybe I can assist. 

PM me...I'm good to talk tonight.


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

rodgertherabit said:


> updates? Im curious to know how you solved the turbo-charge pipe gap!opcorn:


All I did was just get a pipe and some rubber clamp tubes to mend the problem. 

I will be installing an Intercooler with this setup as I'm having air intake temp issues. I will update once this setup is complete and hitting the numbers I wanted.


----------



## STOICH (Jun 21, 2010)

STOICH said:


> Shank length is 30mm I do believe. I've got a box of them at home, so I can verify.


M8 x 1.25 x 30 :thumbup:


----------



## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

do you mean the total length (shank + thread) = 30mm?


----------



## STOICH (Jun 21, 2010)

Yep - total length is 30mm below the head of the bolt. I believe mine are fully threaded.


----------



## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

The stainless feed line caused me too many problems also. I just got the Audi TT 225 feed lineSo I would have to deal with the headaches. Im still not finished because of work school and family. But after next week Ill get back to it.I also went with the Audi TT hardpipe/heater hose set up. again easier to deal with and OEM clean


----------



## Audi_Mechanic (Mar 24, 2012)

For the heater hoses, I just bent the hard pipe so it sat against the shifter cables. After installing the turbo inlet hose, I bent the pipe back up, left a little air gap, and put a heat shield between them. Routed the longer hose to go over the brake booster, looks crappy with kinks but its good enough until I feel like doing something about it. 034 Motorsport makes silicone heater hoses for the k04 swap for $105, but re-routing the lines is good enough for us cheap-o's.


----------



## schneeebes85 (Jul 12, 2008)

It just sucks that your not told the oil line won't work with cast iron TT manifold after he emailed me and said that I could just get a TT manifold instead of buying his then your car is down for longer( a week so far for me) Wasted trip to new york(Borrowing car, tolls, gas, and time) to get a new line off Doug with a banjo fitting and that didn't fit either. Although I did ask Doug for money that he would have spent on express shipping to pay for trip since I couldn't afford for car to be down any longer and waiting for shipping. He did give me the money but not til midnight not even 5 minutes after I sent him an email of line I picked up not fitting. Doug does have good customer service meaning answering people back but he needs to man up and admit design of oil feed line sucks with cast iron manifold and won't work *instead of blaming it on people/place installing it.* 

Talked to F23 owners who had same oil feed line problem and they said doug admitted line sucked to them and probably wouldn't work and is poorly designed, but I didn't get that response I got email saying place doing install didn't know what they were doing.* If I knew from get go that the oil line wouldn't work then there would be no problem because I would've been prepared for it and had one waiting instead of wasting a week so far.*

Sent him a picture of problem with line and description of problem that I was told directly from place, and all he kept saying was have them contact me but wouldn't provide a phone number and all they would have emailed him was exactly what I emailed him which was directly from the place. 

In the end now I'm out another $300 since I had to buy a TT oil feed line today and still down until I receive it.:banghead:

*Sent doug an email about how line doesn't work and regardless i'm going to have to buy a TT line so I can get done with this situation and have my car back so I can stop missing work and class. Also that if the place installing it wants to email him they can and will just send him same thing I did but that I was done going back and forth through email and getting no solutions for problem, and his response was...I'm sorry you feel that way about my product, good luck with the installation.*

And for the charge pipe gap I had same problem since I have under engine piping for my FMIC. I just went to pep boys and bought an exhaust pipe section and then to lowes and bought 2 couplers. I made connection and fit perfectly, but won't know how it holds up til TT line comes in and I get it up and running and then I will update charge pipe solution.:thumbup:


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

While I understand your frustration the OEM ko3 line will work just fine. I installed it when I had both the stock manifold and the frankenturbo manifold with no problems. You shoulda just did that to avoids down time.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

schneeebes85 said:


> *Sent doug an email about how line doesn't work and regardless i'm going to have to buy a TT line so I can get done with this situation...Also that if the place installing it wants to email him they can and will just send him same thing I did but that I was done going back and forth through email and getting no solutions for problem, and his response was...I'm sorry you feel that way about my product, good luck with the installation.*


I am going to clarify this, since you've decided to take this to the forum and to be somewhat _selective_ in how you report things. Matthew, when your tech clumsily destroys a 4-ply reinforced inlet pipe and is also unable to install the same T-bolt clamp hundreds of others have used successfully, I tend to doubt their competence. Despite these doubts, I replaced the TIP under warranty. Despite the doubts I sourced a larger-than normal clamp. And when your tech destroyed the infamous supply line by over tightening it, I recognized the design played a contributing role. So for that, too, I gave you a free replacement, with a modified fitting to eliminate that happening again. Later that day (11pm or so) we exchanged emails, with you still frustrated at the lack of your tech's progress, I offered to make myself available to the technician. Your response to my offer was to tell me "your product sucks" and that it "blows", and that it was too much trouble for you to coordinate things any further. At that point, with you leaving me no path to further assist, what else did you expect. Again, I'm sorry you feel that way about my product. But given the "no questions asked" warranty replacements, the late night troubleshooting, and my offer to deal with your struggling tech, do you really think it appropriate to belly-ache in a public forum?


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Sounds like the installers are abit under experienced. I've installed both the f23 on my car and the f4 on 2 of my friends cars. Both were transverse 1.8t's GTI's. The parts provided by Doug work perfectly fine. The oil feed line I used for my f23 like I said was my stock 1.8t. Some bending and it works. I now have a stock tt line and guess what, it still lines up almost touching the exhaust manifold. 

I think you should stop accusing and criticizing people and potentially get someone better qualified to install the kit. Like Doug said many people have installed these with no issues. Take a step back and take another look at everything. I'm sure you'll be able to get things to work.


----------



## schneeebes85 (Jul 12, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I am going to clarify this, since you've decided to take this to the forum and to be somewhat _selective_ in how you report things. Matthew, when your tech clumsily destroys a 4-ply reinforced inlet pipe and is also unable to install the same T-bolt clamp hundreds of others have used successfully, I tend to doubt their competence. Despite these doubts, I replaced the TIP under warranty. Despite the doubts I sourced a larger-than normal clamp. And when your tech destroyed the infamous supply line by over tightening it, I recognized the design played a contributing role. So for that, too, I gave you a free replacement, with a modified fitting to eliminate that happening again. Later that day (11pm or so) we exchanged emails, with you still frustrated at the lack of your tech's progress, I offered to make myself available to the technician. Your response to my offer was to tell me "your product sucks" and that it "blows", and that it was too much trouble for you to coordinate things any further. At that point, with you leaving me no path to further assist, what else did you expect. Again, I'm sorry you feel that way about my product. But given the "no questions asked" warranty replacements, the late night troubleshooting, and my offer to deal with your struggling tech, do you really think it appropriate to belly-ache in a public forum?


*Common now Doug, for one the "sucks" and "blows" is from what your other customers said about your oil feed line, never came from my mouth although I do agree and I told you that in email. I just went through all 30+ of our emails and checked and didn't see any where I said that, but I will also be putting all emails on vortex as part of my review then no one will be "selective" and everyone can see for themselves.*

I also sent you a picture of the TIP and how all the "bungs" as you call them are bulging out once everything had to be jammed in there bungs to the point where it did damage a ply or two. Evereything fit in my FORGE TIP perfect but yet this TIP didn't and the vaccum "bung" at end where mounts to turbo I had to rap half a roll of electrical tape around metal piece because without it that "bung" was actually bigger and the piece would fall right through the TIP.

*DESTROYED THE LINE BY OVER TIGHTENING IT? HAHA YOU CAN'T TIGHTEN IT ALL THE WAY BECAUSE IT HITS THE MANIFOLD! YOU HAVE PICTURES OF THAT!! AND YOU STILL WON'T TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY TO ME ABOUT THE LINE BUT HAVE TO YOUR OTHER CUSTOMERS ACCORDING TO THEM.*

I brought this to forumn because people deserve to know that what's supplied with the kit WON'T work so there car isn't down for a week plus and know to get necessary parts so they don't have same belly-ache I have been having past week+

I have pictures and video of everything that I will post, showing the T bolt clamp doesnt fit suprisingly to you and contrary of you thinking it's installers lack of knowledge or fault. Also of all the "bungs" on TIP bulging out like they are going to explode and the one that is too big making piece slide right through, and of the infamous as you say oil feed line. Basically I have tons of pictures, video, emails, and problems to post of in the future.

If your curious about the F23 read this DIY review and also contact current owners, then you will be ready for when it arrives and not have to worrry about spending another $400+ and running around trying to source parts and being down for a long time.:thumbup:


----------



## schneeebes85 (Jul 12, 2008)

spartiati said:


> Sounds like the installers are abit under experienced. I've installed both the f23 on my car and the f4 on 2 of my friends cars. Both were transverse 1.8t's GTI's. The parts provided by Doug work perfectly fine. The oil feed line I used for my f23 like I said was my stock 1.8t. Some bending and it works. I now have a stock tt line and guess what, it still lines up almost touching the exhaust manifold.
> 
> I think you should stop accusing and criticizing people and potentially get someone better qualified to install the kit. Like Doug said many people have installed these with no issues. Take a step back and take another look at everything. I'm sure you'll be able to get things to work.


For starters I understand that it's said stock oil line could be used and maybe used til replacement comes in but do you have money if stock one breaks in meantime which is recommended to be changed everytime turbo changed? Or money for another set amount of shop time once the new one comes in and needs to be installed? Because I was told the warranty doesn't cover oil starvation, could be wrong, but if something would happen then I'd be even more screwed. Had I known needed a new oil line besides one supplied then either I would have got it and had it ready and waiting or wouldn't have bought the kit, considering I've spent another $400+ this week that I don't have trying to get car up and running. Do you see the frustration? In end it'd be nice to know so I think people should know.

I'm not knocking the kit or not saying it won't be really good once install is finished just stating what I've gone through so far with this kit and installation

I understand you were his first guy and the main tester and was going to try and get a hold of you since I got a hold of all other F23 people but couldn't remember your exact name.
*And F4's have nothing to do with this thread or reviews/conversations.*


----------



## schneeebes85 (Jul 12, 2008)

spartiati said:


> The parts provided by Doug work perfectly fine. The oil feed line I used for my f23 like I said was my stock 1.8t. Some bending and it works. I now have a stock tt line and guess what, it still lines up almost touching the exhaust manifold.


So you didn't use doug's oil feed line or any oil feed line provided by him?

I agree that most of parts work, 1 doesn't at all and 1 needed TLC to get stock components in it.


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

schneeebes85 said:


> For starters I understand that it's said stock oil line could be used and maybe used til replacement comes in but do you have money if stock one breaks in meantime which is recommended to be changed everytime turbo changed? Or money for another set amount of shop time once the new one comes in and needs to be installed? Because I was told the warranty doesn't cover oil starvation, could be wrong, but if something would happen then I'd be even more screwed. Had I known needed a new oil line besides one supplied then either I would have got it and had it ready and waiting or wouldn't have bought the kit, considering I've spent another $400+ this week that I don't have trying to get car up and running. Do you see the frustration? In end it'd be nice to know so I think people should know.
> 
> I'm not knocking the kit or not saying it won't be really good once install is finished just stating what I've gone through so far with this kit and installation
> 
> ...


F4's may not have anything to do with the thread. I was merely stating that to indicate that fitment of Frankenturbo products are usually pretty spot on. That was all. 

2 ply damaged on the TIP won't affect anything. It's under vacuum. Won't effect much. 

I was the early beta tester and Doug was nothing but helpful along the way with any hiccups I encountered. This was before he even offered the lines with his kit. So I reused my stock line with no problems. It had 110 K on its with no issues. That line now resides in my friends car (mk4boost) with an F23 and has been running flawlessly for over a year in his car. 

I've got no problems helping people out. Shoot me a PM and I'll work you through whatever you need. No sense of being sour about the whole thing. I've had major down time in the beginning as well. As always I blamed myself for lack of planning and anticipating what can go wrong as the reason I had no car until parts came in. Live and Learn.


----------



## schneeebes85 (Jul 12, 2008)

spartiati said:


> F4's may not have anything to do with the thread. I was merely stating that to indicate that fitment of Frankenturbo products are usually pretty spot on. That was all.
> 
> 2 ply damaged on the TIP won't affect anything. It's under vacuum. Won't effect much.
> 
> ...


I know bro just frustrating and can't keep missing work especially with the money I have to keep spending ya know ha.

Like I said It seems like a good kit and sounded really good when it fired up for few seconds before lost all oil, my intent is to just let people know about problems I've encountered, so they are ready ahead of time. I figured it wouldn't be bing bang boom and knew I'd have to buy parts and encounter unforseen problems just not that I'd be down this long and have to spend $300 on one line. But still not that big of a deal just wish I would've been told ya know.

Yeah I been talking to MK4BOOST but didn't know he was using your old line that's been passed down ha that's pretty sweet it's still holding up!:thumbup:

And as for the TIP it was not "ruined" as doug stated, beyond use. All I was worried about was bung being to big for the one vac right where goes on to turbo and sucking the metal piece in compressor becuase it just slid right through bung. The other bungs are very stretched out but since it's 4 or possibly 5 ply I'm not that concerned with them ripping or causing a problem, just wanted to keep doug in loop about the bungs.

*I drove up to new york to doug to get what I thought was just a new oil feed line with banjo fitting and in the box was a new TIP and T bolt that I was unaware of but give doug a thumbs up for doing so.:thumbup:All I wanted/needed was a new oil feed line to get car running but was very impressed and happy with him throwing in a new TIP and bigger T bolt clamp*


----------



## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

spartiati said:


> I've got no problems helping people out. Shoot me a PM and I'll work you through whatever you need.


Tried several times...Still havent heard back from ya


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

rodgertherabit said:


> Tried several times...Still havent heard back from ya


:screwy:lol 
 I never got a single message!
 

I got a little emoticon happy there didn't I. Lol.


----------



## schneeebes85 (Jul 12, 2008)

rodgertherabit said:


> Tried several times...Still havent heard back from ya


If your being serious I could help(but feel youre not ha) ya with a few things :thumbup:

I seen you were looking for updates on charge pipe solution earlier in the thread, if you still are PM me I can let ya know what I used. Length, diameter, and all that of piece of pipe I used also what size couplers I used. If I remember correctly piece of pipe was $7 tops and I used 2 couplers that were $3 each, and also came with 2 clamps for each coupler (4 clamps total) but would swap out for T bolt clamps honestly.


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

schneeebes85 said:


> If your being serious I could help(but feel youre not ha) ya with a few things :thumbup:
> 
> I seen you were looking for updates on charge pipe solution earlier in the thread, if you still are PM me I can let ya know what I used. Length, diameter, and all that of piece of pipe I used also what size couplers I used. If I remember correctly piece of pipe was $7 tops and I used 2 couplers that were $3 each, and also came with 2 clamps for each coupler (4 clamps total) but would swap out for T bolt clamps honestly.


He's just kidding. We spoke about afew things. Good call on tbolt clamps. I blew every worm gear clamp off until I replaced them all with tbolts.


----------



## schneeebes85 (Jul 12, 2008)

spartiati said:


> He's just kidding. We spoke about afew things. Good call on tbolt clamps. I blew every worm gear clamp off until I replaced them all with tbolts.


You had same charge pipe gap? and kept blowing those off til you switched to T bolts? How did you fill the gap / how has it held up for you? minus clamp problem.


----------



## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

schneeebes85 said:


> You had same charge pipe gap? and kept blowing those off til you switched to T bolts? How did you fill the gap / how has it held up for you? minus clamp problem.



I had an fmic from the start. No gaps to deal with. I did have issues initially but non ever since I changed clamps.


----------



## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

spartiati said:


> :screwy:lol
> I never got a single message!
> 
> 
> I got a little emoticon happy there didn't I. Lol.


Now Look! 

Also, for the Charge pipe, I bought an IE 2in elbow thats pretty lengthy Hopefully It'll reach.


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

Wow some serious hijacking!


----------



## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Post some updates/photos then! :laugh::beer:


----------



## Audi_Mechanic (Mar 24, 2012)

Here are some photos of the OEM TT 225 oil feed line installed with a cast iron manifold and F23. The line is stupid close to the manifold, and barely has enough room to rout between it and the banjo bolt for coolant supply. What was Audi thinking when they designed it? "Okay Hans, design this to be very difficult to install, and as close to heat as possible. Okay boss! Here, i even put a heat shield on it so it LOOKS like it has protection."


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Assuming the new banjo fittings will allow a path comparable to that (less-than-ideal) OEM route, I am thinking some kind of heat wrap would be a good add to the lines kit. I'll look into it.

Thanks for posting those pix of the OEM one. :thumbup:


----------



## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

Once I get back from my trip, im gonna tackle that line doug!


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

I've been on the build here of a bunch of new stuff..I will update the thread soon enough. 

A sneak peak is that my engine and tranny have been removed......:beer::wave:


----------



## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

planning on tackling my f23 install this week. Any updates with the OEM feed line? 

How close is too close to the mani?


----------



## SCMK4GTI (May 10, 2011)




----------



## oneops (May 29, 2010)

updates


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

oneops said:


> updates


 I'll give some detail once the project is close to being done.....but in the mean time here are some teaser pics....


----------



## GolfCL Smooth (Jul 9, 2006)

I just finished painting my block with POR-15 and I have plenty left for another - I wish I knew you were going to be painting! It's wayyyyy better than the spray can treatment


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

GolfCL Smooth said:


> I just finished painting my block with POR-15 and I have plenty left for another - I wish I knew you were going to be painting! It's wayyyyy better than the spray can treatment


 That stuff is no joke, will go on rust or anything and holds


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Why does your manifold have corners? 

Who made it?


----------



## oneops (May 29, 2010)

gdoggmoney said:


> Why does your manifold have corners?
> 
> Who made it?


 
If you talking about the intake manifold that is what is looks like stock from that angle


----------



## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

:facepalm: 
just shows post count dont mean sh*i*t. 

OP, nice update. win. 
are you doing all of this, (drill press, cherry picker, ect, ect) in your garage? 
or a shop?


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> :facepalm:
> just shows post count dont mean sh*i*t.
> 
> OP, nice update. win.
> ...


 In my garage.


----------



## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

hondss said:


> In my garage.


props brochacho.
i might be embarking on a stroker+LSD build soon. my buddy wants a 2.0FT set up.

one thing puzzles me about the LSD. what is it your doing exactly? i understand you bought the Wavetrac LSD, I get they are 2 different parts.










But when you do the drilling, what exactly is it your drilling and swapping to make it LSD?
this is where im confused. are you putting that gear on the piece to the right?(in the above pic)










and I see here, you just bolt them together as apposed to the rivets your drill out before. is that normal? or are you just being fancy? are they special nuts and bolts? Stretch bolts? grade8? whats the specs on those?










thanks.:beer:


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> props brochacho.
> i might be embarking on a stroker+LSD build soon. my buddy wants a 2.0FT set up.
> 
> one thing puzzles me about the LSD. what is it your doing exactly? i understand you bought the Wavetrac LSD, I get they are 2 different parts.
> ...


He is swapping the *ring gear*. In the picture above the old diff is on the left and the LSD is on the right. You have to drill out the rivets holding the *ring gear* to the original diff and then you bolt the *ring gear* to the new diff with ARP hardware.:thumbup: The bolts come with the diff:thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

oneops said:


> If you talking about the intake manifold that is what is looks like stock from that angle












Exhaust manifold. Who made that? 

Cylinder 1 / \ but less dramatic. 

The rest looks "ok". 

2 joining to one is sort of direct and 90 ish.


----------



## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> Exhaust manifold. Who made that?




Thats the FankenTurbo Exhaust Manifold


----------



## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Twopnt016v said:


> He is swapping the *ring gear*. In the picture above the old diff is on the left and the LSD is on the right. You have to drill out the rivets holding the *ring gear* to the original diff and then you bolt the *ring gear* to the new diff with ARP hardware.:thumbup: The bolts come with the diff:thumbup::thumbup:


:thumbup:
gots it now. thanks.
:beer:


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

rodgertherabit said:


> Thats the FankenTurbo Exhaust Manifold


I'm asking why it has pipe joined at odd angles, and an almost 90 degree join? 

Should be smooth, with mandrel bends and merges at a little better angle.


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> I'm asking why it has pipe joined at odd angles, and an almost 90 degree join?
> 
> Should be smooth, with mandrel bends and merges at a little better angle.


That manifold has had revisions so there is no telling at what point he purchased his kit...


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Twopnt016v said:


> That manifold has had revisions so there is no telling at what point he purchased his kit...


Ahhh ok.

I'm not trying to be an ass. It just looks like some thick walled 304 bends could have been used to avoid tht stuff.


Might not even notice it and it might not even matter....


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

Twopnt016v said:


> He is swapping the *ring gear*. In the picture above the old diff is on the left and the LSD is on the right. You have to drill out the rivets holding the *ring gear* to the original diff and then you bolt the *ring gear* to the new diff with ARP hardware.:thumbup: The bolts come with the diff:thumbup::thumbup:





MÄDDNESSS said:


> :thumbup:
> gots it now. thanks.
> :beer:



I have left out a lot of steps as those were just teaser pics.....

The new Diff from Wavetrac does not come with the ARP Bolts.

Also the reason to use the ARP bolts with the new diff is because you cannot rivet them again.

I'll provide a better write up once i get all my parts and get this thing going - im on standby mode.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

hondss said:


> I have left out a lot of steps as those were just teaser pics.....
> 
> The new Diff from Wavetrac does not come with the ARP Bolts.
> 
> ...


Don't skimp and use only ARP. The kind of power and forces those bolts are under..... well that is why the rivets fail and blow though the bellhousing and have since 1979 or so.

Thanks VW!


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

Ok so i am continuing this thread now.....

So i left off with the turbo installed and the car running.

I dyno'ed the car and the results were great but not where i was hoping. the reason for not hitting my target was due to the stock intercooler and the pancake pipe by the passenger side wheel - my air intake temps were very high and the air flow was very low. So with those factors taken into consideration, i was pushing 240hp and 240tq. 

The powerband changed drastically. I did not have as much low end power right off the get go as the turbo needed to spool up but when it did (at 2500rpm & and hit aprox 2900 i think) it hit hard and continued pulling up to 6500rpm.

Here are the dyno sheets.

*waiting for the upload*


Continuing on......


I have my tranny out of the car and will be installing the wavetrac diff.










Keep in mind this is the 02M 6 speed transmission. Also notice the bolts on this side of the tranny.....they need to be removed as well. I didnt know about them and was curious on why it wouldn't split - heh.











I would go into detail about how to split the case there are a few diy's already on the net....i'll just fill in the gaps in the diy's. Big thing to remember is not to put oil back into it for a day or so as you need the gasket material to cure properly since oil disrupts this process.

diff diy

The big thing to remember is when installing the gear selector, make sure the forks are back in the neutral position. so before you take the transmission apart, have it in neautral and see what it looks like when you take the selector out. *****but for some reason, i think on my tranny i could have left it in as i put the selector back in with it split and tried a test fit to see if it would go back together like that....and it did. but i had to take it apart again to fix somthing and when putting it back together i chose to keep the selector out to see if i could slide it back in (since that was harder).


















another thing to note is you will need a drill press and a press to split the ring gear from the oem diff. Also, be sure to buy new bearings for the diff........and the freezer trick/hot day in the sun or oven does work well.

here are some self explanatory pics.



















Keep in mind when splitting the case, if you realize you split the wrong end.....just slide the case back on and flip the tranny over and just pry it open again.



















so instead of waiting and spending the same amount of money.....i just went out and bought a drill press that was on sale and saved some money.










you just want a big drill bit, i'll have to double check which i used but you want something just a tiny bit smaller then the head of the rivot so you are left with a ring as follows:









Once you have all the heads removed, its pressing time...










installed with arp bolts...









to put the dif back in or take it out......you need to lift the one gear on teh shaft a bit....dont worry it wont come out - unless you pull too hard:










make sure to clean up the faces of the cases and use a coppergasket sealer or something that can take heat. 

Also, you may need to check the shims in the casing to make sure you have enough clearance with the new diff.

you may need to bring it to a shop for that part because measuring tools are expensive.


So anyways, next on the list for this thread is the clutch..











.....I just also want to put a reminder on this to those of you who are scared to tackle jobs like this that it is very possible if you take your time, be organized and take proper notes while having a bentley manual......I haven't done a lot of this before in my life (ie splitting a tranny, drilling and pressing things out of a diff.). 

My experience is from 16 years ago when i was 15 ripping apart my 83 vw rabbit gti from the drum brakes cylinder install to the head liner repair to rebuilding the bottom end and getting the car running..

...like that was some funny ****; on instance, I had no clue where any wires went for the engine so i just tried plugging things in to get it started but no go...until i found the right one and the car turned over - that was a really exciting day....ohh dont think the car started, i just found the right wire for the starter - but i had hopes it would start lol

All my experience since then until now is from dirt bike racing. Having not much money, i would always have to learn how to fix/rebuild things on my own which included having to build the rebuild engines, diagnose problems, press bearings out, build heads, break the engine in....i even got as far as rebuilding the suspension etc.....

So anyways all im saying is you gottat start somewhere so pull up your pants and put your 'man hat' on and get doing some things on your car that you wanted to do. Feel free to ask me any questions btw.

Also keep in mind, if you fack up, fix it right and dont be a have a$$ mofo cutting corners and not doing things correctly - ie being a butcher, in that case dont read my threads  - cars are just like people and deserve respect imo - weird??


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

something extra..... Painting...

Here is the valve cover and engine block.

Be sure to clean everything with some kind of grease killer...and it is okay to wash with a hose as long as dry it with a compressor and wd-40 it after.

You need to get everything as clean as possible or else your paint will not stick.

I decided to go with that wrinkle paint to hide blemishes in the rocer cover - in i the same breathe, i wondered how much a new cover would cost and maybe just paint that instead of the wrinkle look....


















I then let it air dry for a good 6 hours. Once that was done i put it in the oven as recommended for 1h i think - what ever the can says to do. 

And here is the end result..









I couldn't be happier i chose this instead of a normal paint. ALso, this will match my calipers as the car is a 20th ae.

Here is the block. This took time as well as i needed to remove all the rusted flakes and be sure it was spotless.



































A friend owed me a favour so i dropped off my awp head to him....from what i researched, its worth it at a reasonable cost. Fortinatly like i said, a friend owed me a favour...pretty big favour 

He port the intake and exhaust manifold to match - aka port match i think. (i'll take pics of the manifolds tomorrow).



















































So the project for me tomorrow is to clean up the head and paint it then put it back together. I am choosing not to get the valves cut and replace them, but i have replaced all the gaskets, orings, and valve seals. 










I also may paint this but i really can't get into all the areas to clean unless i spent another day.....but we will see.









a random pics of the project (murray)....i will explain....shortly...


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Really clean writeup. Was doing some searching on the Wavetrac and came across this.

Adding to the FAQ under the turbo section


----------



## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

What happened? Did he finish?


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

Yes I did finish and car drove great. 

Building another block for ****s and giggles as I have enough left over parts a d figured you guys could use a DIY thread since I haven't seen one yet. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6130406-1.8T-Full-Engine-Build-DIY-Your-new-BFF-Thread

But this is on hold until early spring unfortunately. 

Curious did this thread help people out?

Where are you putting this thread?


----------



## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

Probably! I think for anyone doing an in car K04-02x or FT23 it is identifies a lot of the heartache that can be had, if you are not prepared. :laugh:

Maybe it was just me, but I had no clue the K04-02x sat 4 in higher than the K03s.

I know I spent a lot of time :banghead:. Bless your heart for doing this in car, I had to pull the engine.


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

hondss said:


> Yes I did finish and car drove great.
> 
> Building another block for ****s and giggles as I have enough left over parts a d figured you guys could use a DIY thread since I haven't seen one yet.
> 
> ...


I thought I recognized your workshop(garage) from another thread. The motor building thread will be nice! Many will appreciate it!:thumbup:


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

woodywoods86 said:


> Probably! I think for anyone doing an in car K04-02x or FT23 it is identifies a lot of the heartache that can be had, if you are not prepared. :laugh:
> 
> Maybe it was just me, but I had no clue the K04-02x sat 4 in higher than the K03s.
> 
> I know I spent a lot of time :banghead:. Bless your heart for doing this in car, I had to pull the engine.





Twopnt016v said:


> I thought I recognized your workshop(garage) from another thread. The motor building thread will be nice! Many will appreciate it!:thumbup:



Yea I keep hearing people appreciate it. Not that I'm looking for praises but rather I would like to know all my efforts isn't just for people to window shop and that's it. 

I have not received any feedback from this thread about it helping anyone. 

So I'm still curious. 

In turn I do this cause its fun and I wish it was done for me when I was learning. It's rare to come across detailed diy's. so I'm just passing on the experience now. 

As mentioned I would like to know if this has helped anyone. Any feedback would be appreciated. 

Also others DIY's I find are more of a "look at me and what I did but I'm not gonna really help others out with information on how I went from a to b.


----------



## hondss (Mar 23, 2012)

I think given this thread breaks down everything for you, it is a huge wallet saver.

If this isn't helping anyone out and it's just a picture show, I'd rather not do this again cause it does take up a lot of my time for no real savings or impact.


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

hondss said:


> I think given this thread breaks down everything for you, it is a huge wallet saver.
> 
> If this isn't helping anyone out and it's just a picture show, I'd rather not do this again cause it does take up a lot of my time for no real savings or impact.


My bet is this has helped out lots of people that will never take the time to say thank you or otherwise give advice.

My FAQ has over 84,000 views and only gets occasional mentions. I just keep assuming it's useful and I keep putting work into it.


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

^ Agreed. I'm sure plenty of people have benefited from the thread and gained confidence thru seeing you do it. Even people who have done some of the work before can still learn from this. It shows people what to watch out for and what parts to gather and that is worth millions. Being in the middle of the job and lacking understanding or parts really sucks and you are prepping people to not be in that position. You should go forward with the engine build thread. I think it will more valuable than this as many people can swap parts but lack the knowledge and confidence when it comes to actually building an engine. Move forward and create a great thread that many will use for a long time.:thumbup::beer:


----------



## sleepy1.8t (Sep 5, 2013)

hondss said:


> I think given this thread breaks down everything for you, it is a huge wallet saver.
> 
> If this isn't helping anyone out and it's just a picture show, I'd rather not do this again cause it does take up a lot of my time for no real savings or impact.


Hey hondss, just wanted to let you know that yes indeed this thread is extremely helpful. I'm putting a F23 in my setup, and reading this thread has provided great insight. Especially the bits about the oil line shenanigans. I ****ing laughed at your extension too.

I'll likely read this again while I do the swap, the photos make for great comparison.

So thank you for taking the time and effort to make this thread, it is greatly appreciated. :beer:


----------



## forumaccount (Jul 24, 2012)

This writeup is amazing, especially the lsd part. Thank you. I will certainly use this when I replace my lsd. 

Question: why did you install the turbo with the engine in the bay when you ended up pulling it anyways?


----------

