# Compression test results



## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

Had a compression test done today to help figure out my detonation problem. Motor is a 83.5mm bore, 8.5-1 JE pistons w/ Schrick 248s with roughly over 4k miles on it. Here is what I saw:
200
190
200
190
200
200
Good thing is they are within 5% of each other but I was thinking I would see between 125-150 compression with these pistons. Any comments? What #s should I realistically see with lower comp pistons?


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## kimosullivan (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*

Yeah, 200 seems too high. Perhaps your compression tester needs to be calibrated. Either way, pull the head off, measure the deck height and combustion chamber volume, and compute the compression ratio for yourself.


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (Jefnes3)*

I didn't do the rebuild. I'm only running 8 degrees timing under boost because of the detonation. I also had a volumetric test done and it revealed the compression ratio of the engine is too high.


_Modified by '89gli at 5:05 PM 8-18-2003_


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*

SOunds like you got *hooked* up.


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## GTibunny16v (Aug 12, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*

With those numbers Id say the compression is over 9:1. Most likely 9.5:1, since those are the numbers Ive gotten from stock aba's and they have a 9.4:1 compression ratio.

What did the VE test tell you for a c/r?


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## Sc'd_Thumper (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *'89gli* »_I didn't do the rebuild. I'm only running 8 degrees timing under boost because of the detonation. I also had a volumetric test done and it revealed the compression ratio of the engine is too high.

must be that 5 cent Oregon pop can refund at work, huh??








sounds like maybe the wrong JE's... only running 8 degrees will make that thing run pretty hot too... which will cause more detonation.. i wonder who could have made that mistake???


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (GTibunny16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTibunny16v* »_
What did the VE test tell you for a c/r?

It showed that my compression is over 10.5-1
Looks like JE sent the wrong pistons.


_Modified by '89gli at 8:51 AM 8-19-2003_


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## GTibunny16v (Aug 12, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *'89gli* »_
It showed that my compression is over 10.5-1
Looks like JE sent the wrong pistons.

_Modified by '89gli at 8:51 AM 8-19-2003_


Ouch, that sucks. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Stephen Webb (Apr 12, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *'89gli* »_
200
190
200
190
200
200


I think the Bentley manual specifies a pressure of around 150 or so for 8.5:1 and 170-190 for 10:1 1.8 liter engines.
As mentioned low overlap cams can have a significant impact on compression pressures at cranking speeds....but the stock cams on the 1.8 8v engines probably don't have much overlap, either (ie the numbers listed above are probably a reasonable reference)
Sounds like high compression pistons to me.
-Steve


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results (Stephen Webb)*

Yeah, sounds like you've got either stock compression pistons or 11:1? (An uneducated guess of course) ...
When you first posted a few weeks ago, I thought something didn't sound right about your specs. Even with ****ty gas and no intercooler, you should not be detonating THAT easily. Having to run 8 degrees total timing is crazy too.


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (Agtronic)*

Explains the detonation problem but at least I now finally know what the problem is.
Hopefully I can get this fixed soon and be back on the road again w/o the pinging.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*

So is Matrix Engineering going to own up to their mistake? Obviously it's not JE's fault that Matrix didn't bother to check the pistons when they installed them. You paid for a certain motor, and you didn't get it. Case closed.
I can just hear their BS excuses now!


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_So is Matrix Engineering going to own up to their mistake? Obviously it's not JE's fault that Matrix didn't bother to check the pistons when they installed them. You paid for a certain motor, and you didn't get it. Case closed.
I can just hear their BS excuses now!

i can see where the mistake can be made, i mean, it is easy to miss a dished piston and a flat top piston, they look very similar, happens to the best of em


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: Compression test results (Us2bA4dr)*

my aba16vT motor was getting rougly 195psi of compression even though the Compression Ratio was 8:1, take it for what it's worth.
Paul


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## roccoturbo (Jul 27, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (killa)*

my 1.8 rd bottom end with 2 aba gasket is 150psi dead even, my 82 jetta 1.7 bone stock is rated at 8:2:1 compression but comprssion test reveals a dead even 170psi oh and that's with 312000km on it


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (killa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *killa* »_my aba16vT motor was getting rougly 195psi of compression even though the Compression Ratio was 8:1, take it for what it's worth.
Paul

I'm just not basing this off the comp test. I also had a volumetric test done and it also revealed higher than stock compression. This explains why I can only run 8 degrees timing under boost.
I was told it was JEs problem and was offered a spacer gasket to lower compression.







This sucks having to fix others mistakes.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*

JE makes a TON of pistons.... I doubt it is 'their' problem.

If you got off the shelf pistons, JE makes an 8.5:1 in 82mm, you should be fine.
If you got a custom piston then I imagine that they were spec'd incorrectly,
not JE's fault.
If it were 'JE's fault' why would someone else offer you the 'fix' that is not
a NEW set of pistons? JE is big enough and good enough to cover any mistake
they made...and they don't make headgaskets.
The REAL cost is not the hardware, but the labor on the teardown/rebuild.
all the 'profit' on your 'job' is GONE.
If I ordered onion rings and got french fries I'd send them back.
Jeffrey Atwood


_Modified by Jefnes3 at 10:36 AM 8-22-2003_


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (Jefnes3)*

These were custom made to Matrix's specs, JE pistons. Matrix did the rebuild also. I was even told the pistons weren't cc'd before installation and that JE had sent incorrect pistons in the past. 
Still, I was only offer a spacer headgasket to lower compression by Matrix. They place 100% of the blame on JE and said JE won't do anything because the pistons are *used*.


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *'89gli* »_These were custom made to Matrix's specs, JE pistons. Matrix did the rebuild also. I was even told the pistons weren't cc'd before installation and that JE had sent incorrect pistons in the past. 
Still, I was only offer a spacer headgasket to lower compression by Matrix. They place 100% of the blame on JE and said JE won't do anything because the pistons are *used*.

I see JE's point... you can measure the pistons before you 'used' them to verify
if they are correct. 
DUE DILIGNECE those pistons should have been checked
more than once, especially if JE has sent 'bad' pistons before. (I don't know if
JE sends incorrectly made pistons or not.)
Whoever from Matrix told you that the pistons were not checked out REALLY
dropped the ball, basically admitting that 'we' messed up.
Your choice: take it on the chin (headgasket) or demand new pistons (small claims court). Either way your realionship with Matrix is gone.
I am guessing that you shelled out real coin for that motor and you recieved
something different that you 'ordered'. I undertand that the mistake may be
expensive to fix, but why should you be left holding the bag?
I am sorry that you're in this mess..
Good luck.
Jeffrey Atwood
TO Matrix: If this stuff is close to true, this thread is will make for some bad PR....


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_I undertand that the mistake may be
expensive to fix, but why should you be left holding the bag?


Exactly, I didn't make the mistake so why should I be left having to pay for it? They put high comp pistons in a turbo car








Matrix has been known to pass blame on to others so this really doesn't suprise me.



_Modified by '89gli at 9:52 AM 8-23-2003_


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## decentdub (May 8, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*

I'd love to see Jeremy chime in on this thread - he's always right there when someone's praising Matrix, or asking about products they want to buy from Matrix...


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *'89gli* »_
Exactly, I didn't make the mistake so why should I be left having to pay for it? They put high comp pistons in a turbo car








Matrix has been known to pass blame on to others so this really doesn't suprise me.


I am sure that Matrix understands that they are responsible for the problem, and that they should be the ones taking care of it. However I bet they aren't doing too well and can barely afford to keep the shop open as it is.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results (Marty)*

We only have one side to this story here...
I don't have any information on Matrix, but my opinion, here is comes again:
From selling my own stuff here on the Vortex:
You guys are a tough crowd. Your expectations in terms of what your willing
to pay for something is a little off, sometimes. So 'tuners' are forced to sell
stuff without any margin, meaning there is no money for future development.
There are too many people here selling bootleged/copied stuff because 
other folks are willing to buy it. Why do you think GIAC doesn't really
tune VW's anymore? The loyalty just isnt there...

_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_
However I bet they aren't doing too well and can barely afford to keep the shop open as it is.

How many cars are running a 4" MAF housing with 440cc inj and using Matrix's
custom eprom that have never even spoken to Josh or Jeremy?
And you wonder why Matrix 'has no money' ?
Somone sent me an email last week saying they were tired of using
crappy software from Company X and tired of the arrogance of Company Y,
Then I told him what I would charge to do the job....that was the end of the 
conversation.
Sure Matrix is a business, but that's not how it started. (I don't really know how 
Matrix got started, just making an assumption here)
A few guys who like to work on VW's and eventually acquired enough
knowledge that they could 'sell' what they know. 
Thats how I am starting...
anyway, sorry for the RANT.
Wait for the WHOLE story....
Jeffrey Atwood


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## rocco2.0gtiLondon (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (Jefnes3)*

If they put high comp pistons in a turbo motor i guess they hadnt required enough knowledge before they started their business.
If* they did make this mistake the only decent thing to do is sort the problem out, i very much doubt they have no money as companies with no money dont last long.


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (decentdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *decentdub* »_I'd love to see Jeremy chime in on this thread - he's always right there when someone's praising Matrix, or asking about products they want to buy from Matrix...

They know about this thread and am sure they are watching it closely but they won't post. They know they are in the wrong and nothing good could come out of them posting. I sure would like to hear an explanation why they don't feel like they should fix their mistake though. "It's JEs fault" doesn't cut it, JE didn't install the pistons.


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## xXx TURBO (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*

do high compression and low compression pistons look different?


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## Kokino (Dec 3, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results (xXx TURBO)*

Dude,
Don't settle for the headgasket. That's crazy!!! An 8.5:1 piston and a 9.5:1 piston look TOTALLY DIFFERENT!!!! Someone qualified enough to build an engine would see the difference without CC'ing them!!
Also, make sure that they didn't deck your block or head more than necessary, go out and MEASURE THEM!!! If they did, then they could've ruined your block (if it's too far out of spec...)
Saying that it was JE's fault is absurd. The engine builder is responsible for the engine that he's building. When you buy a new VW from the dealer, and receive a bad shock absorber, does VW tell you..."Uh, it's Bilstein's fault, not ours! They sent us a shock absorber from a Chevy Tahoe, and we didn't check!" ???
C'mon!!!! They royally screwed up! They should order the right pistons (a few thou over) and rehone and redo the job....
Gary


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## rocco2.0gtiLondon (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (Kokino)*

Right now i'd be getting







at someone, if they are at fault they should rectify the problem.


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (rocco2.0gtiLondon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rocco2.0gtiLondon* »_Right now i'd be getting







at someone, if they are at fault they should rectify the problem.

Yes they should, but the question is will they? I guess we'll really find out what type of shop Matrix is.
What makes me mad is that I've been trying to figure this problem out for over 8 months now ever since I picked my car up. Even had it back at there shop twice complaining of the detonation and they couldn't figure it out. I was originally told it was bad gas or an electrical problem.


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## Stephen Webb (Apr 12, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results (Kokino)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kokino* »_Dude,
Don't settle for the headgasket. That's crazy!!! An 8.5:1 piston and a 9.5:1 piston look TOTALLY DIFFERENT!!!! Someone qualified enough to build an engine would see the difference without CC'ing them!!


VW 1.8 liter 8.5:1 pistons and 10:1 pistons look pretty similar. I can tell them apart without CCing them, but that's because I've seem them often enough...A custom piston doesn't necessarily look much like the stock counterpart, so it may not be so obvious to tell them apart...
BUT, they still should have checked them...even if it takes time.
-Steve


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (Stephen Webb)*

Look, whoever's fault it is, the bottom line is it's not YOURS. If it's JE fault, then Matrix needs to recooperate losses from JE and rebuild your engine. They may have to do work but they should have spec'd out the pistons before putting them in (ESPECIALLY if they had gotten the parts from a manufacturer that had sent wrong items in the past) in the first place, and they will have to get labor re-imbursed from JE. If it's Matrix's fault then they will have to take the loss. If they either ordered the wrong parts or used to wrong pistons or whatever. In either case, you paid for a certain thing, you didn't get the certain thing. You are not JE's customer, you are Matrix's customer. Matrix needs to solve the problem, bottom line. Until then, lower your boost if you can and run 105 octane. Don't settle for the gasket to decrease compression, you'd also lose displacement = less power also. Good luck to ya brutha man.


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (SN2BDNGRZB55)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SN2BDNGRZB55* »_ Matrix needs to solve the problem, bottom line.

Matrix has my number and knows how to get ahold of me. So if they want to fix their problem I'm more than willing to listen.


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*

I guess we'll see.


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## VRQUICK (Sep 20, 2000)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *'89gli* »_
What makes me mad is that I've been trying to figure this problem out for over 8 months now ever since I picked my car up. Even had it back at there shop twice complaining of the detonation and they couldn't figure it out. I was originally told it was bad gas or an electrical problem.









This is crazy, you nearly sold your turbo setup because of this and spent I am sure plenty of money to diagnose this. Between your "matrix" shortblock and "matrix" turbo all which is from and built by Matrix, they should be doing all that is necessary to fix the motor. That shows that matrix can take all of everybodies money, but not do a god dam thing to back their products/work. That is really pathetic that a proffessional shop can make such mistake and then stick the customer. And to blame JE for the mistake, of a "custom matrix design" piston is bullsh!t! Hey guys if you can design your own piston why don't you learn how to verify what the hell you are installing. This may turn out worse than an EIP story.
Good luck


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (VRQUICK)*

any word yet??


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (Us2bA4dr)*

Dude, you seriously can't just let Matrix call you back. You need to let them know that it is a real problem, and whether it was JE's fault or theirs, someone needs to correct it. 

_Quote »_If I ordered onion rings and got french fries I'd send them back

I think that statement about sums up the whole situation. You didn't get what you payed for....I bet the State's Attorney General would be interested to hear your story....
J


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (Us2bA4dr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Us2bA4dr* »_any word yet??

Nothing from Matrix yet. I won't settle for a headgasket. 
The whole reason I went with a rebuilt motor is because an installation error on my turbo kit blew the stock motor which only had 60k on it. I let Matrix use my car as the 'guinea pig' for their OBDI turbo kit software. Less than a week after I picked it up the pressure line backed off of the wastegate and overboosted the engine. That's how this whole mess started.


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*

freom what i hear the guys at matrix do good work and are good guys..would like to see them own up to it and at least come in and give their side of the story, cuz right now this does not make them look good...
basically boils down to, they had a "custom" set of pistons made from their design...i know when i have custom stuff done, i always check it before installing it. this is because, when going custom, there will always be trial and error, whether it is your fault or the manufacturer's fault. 
i hope this all gets worked out, i would love to see the potential of your motor...not many turbo vr's around here, would be great to see it at the track...


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## SILVERADO (May 16, 2002)

*Re: Compression test results (Us2bA4dr)*

I installed 8.5:1 JE's before and the "dish"is wider and deeper in the piston crown,if you compare a ABA piston and a JE low comp side by side it is pretty uhhhhhhhhhh OBVIOUS!!


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## Sneaky (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (Us2bA4dr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Us2bA4dr* »_freom what i hear the guys at matrix do good work and are good guys..would like to see them own up to it and at least come in and give their side of the story, cuz right now this does not make them look good...

Yes they do good work for the most part most will agree with that. But as with any shop or business, nothing is perfect. Mistakes will happen due to any number of reasons. The problem is they do not keep to a baisic rule for every customer. By this I mean that if you are in business you need to stand behind the service you provide. This includes the people you wish would just go away or do not want to deal with. This is the senerio with Dave. You see, Dave was once well liked By Josh and Josh wanted to do a Corrado OBD1 turbo kit and had offered the option to Dave for a discount. Dave acepted. The kit was done in a reasonable time and returned to Dave. Unfortunately after Dave had the car for just about a week or so, the vacum line on the wastegate came off and the turbo overboosted. Dave towed the car to Matrix and Josh examined the the car. Josh agreeing that the line had failed had offered to give Dave a motor on the shelf in replacement of the blown motor and even a deal was even offered to Dave for a 3.0 low compresion motor if he wanted. This in my opinion is how anyone in business should cunduct them selves. Dave then decided a 3.0 was the ticket. From here on is where things just went down hill. The car was put on the back burner and and sat roughly for nine months untill completed. During this time the relationship between Matrix and Dave deteriorated because it was taking to long. Dave was uderstandably frustrated and Matrix would eventualy think of Dave as a pain whenever he called. The time it took for the motor to be replaced and to have traction control installed along with 3" exhaust took way too long. I know first handedly why this was but refuse to talk about them on an open forum. What eventually happened is they thought Dave was being unreasonable in his request to have his car back. I think anyone in the same situation would think this was too long as well. 
So, now Dave has his car back and he has a few problems to say the least. He was told it was bad gas. Dave explained he thought the same but has ran a few tanks through and filled up at different stations and still has the same problems.
He took it back again and was told he now needed an intercooler and that would/should correct it. He then did that and it did not work either.
He then is told that it has to be the software. Dave was told they would not do software for it. Keep in mind, his car was for RnD but now they will not do that because Dave went from stage one, skipped stage2 only because now the motor burned up. Now has a 3.0 in the car. He was told software for that application really wasn't an option because a kit of the such would never be done again so the time into it would not be efficient and the software for stage 1 should be close enough since the it ran fine with the stock motor. And really it should have but didn't.
So at the recomedations of Matrix. Dave had stand alone management intalled. This still did not fix it.
Now why do you think Matrix did not look farther into this after he was told that the software for stage1 should work fine? After all, it ran fine with the stock, higher compresion motor. Instead they give Dave the run-around because they do not want to deal with him anymore and hope the problem will just go away. Because something they are suposed to be profesionals at is now becoming a real problem. Not only do they not want to deal with Dave they now do not want to deal with the headache of what they built. 
The solution is simple here. There is an obvious problem with the motor that was assembled by Matrix. The car ran fine untill it was installed with no problems other than the failed line. Now why does it run the way it does? Matrix owes it to Dave to stand behind their work. Matrix should take the time to double check for themselves if there is infact a problem with this motor. You notice how thay told Dave "he can put a thicker gasket in there"? This is their solution, and they expect Dave to do it. They will try to claim it is out of warranty or whatever. If infact the pistons are wrong the warranty isn't an issue at all. Wrong pistons would then be considered "deffect in parts" and is backed by Matrix as per their disclaimer on the botom of the reciept. 
I have many opinions about Matrix. Some good some bad. I once worked for them and eventually did not like being there. I am not here to bash them and am not what you would consider a bitter ex-employe, that would just be childish. I do think that all customers should be treated fairly and reasonably no mater what the personal fealings are and that buisineses should stand behind what they represent.
I hope someday someone at Matrix that doesn't believe this concept will fiqure it out, I do believe there are a few that do but are somewhat powerless to instill this philosophy in to the dealings with every customer. It is not the product, service, or knowledge that will win customers. It is and will always be customer service and word of mouth.











_Modified by Sneaky at 8:06 AM 8-27-2003_


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (Sneaky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sneaky* »_
Yes they do good work for the most part most will agree with that. But as with any shop or business, nothing is perfect. Mistakes will happen due to any number of reasons. The problem is they do not keep to a baisic rule for every customer. By this I mean that if you are in business you need to stand behind the service you provide. This includes the people you wish would just go away or do not want to deal with. This is the senerio with Dave. You see, Dave was once well liked By Josh and Josh wanted to do a Corrado OBD1 turbo kit and had offered the option to Dave for a discount. Dave acepted. The kit was done in a reasonable time and returned to Dave. Unfortunately after Dave had the car for just about a week or so, the vacum line on the wastegate came off and the turbo overboosted. Dave towed the car to Matrix and Josh examined the the car. Josh agreeing that the line had failed had offered to give Dave a motor on the shelf in replacement of the blown motor and even a deal was even offered to Dave for a 3.0 low compresion motor if he wanted. This in my opinion is how anyone in business should cunduct them selves. Dave then decided a 3.0 was the ticket. From here on is where things just went down hill. The car was put on the back burner and and sat roughly for nine months untill completed. During this time the relationship between Matrix and Dave deteriorated because it was taking to long. Dave was uderstandably frustrated and Matrix would eventualy think of Dave as a pain whenever he called. The time it took for the motor to be replaced and to have traction control installed along with 3" exhaust took way too long. I know first handedly why this was but refuse to talk about them on an open forum. What eventually happened is they thought Dave was being unreasonable in his request to have his car back. I think anyone in the same situation would think this was too long as well. 
So, now Dave has his car back and he has a few problems to say the least. He was told it was bad gas. Dave explained he thought the same but has ran a few tanks through and filled up at different stations and still has the same problems.
He took it back again and was told he now needed an intercooler and that would/should correct it. He then did that and it did not work either.
He then is told that it has to be the software. Dave was told they would not do software for it. Keep in mind, his car was for RnD but now they will not do that because Dave went from stage one, skipped stage2 only because now the motor burned up. Now has a 3.0 in the car. He was told software for that application really wasn't an option because a kit of the such would never be done again so the time into it would not be efficient and the software for stage 1 should be close enough since the it ran fine with the stock motor. And really it should have but didn't.
So at the recomedations of Matrix. Dave had stand alone management intalled. This still did not fix it.
Now why do you think Matrix did not look farther into this after he was told that the software for stage1 should work fine? After all, it ran fine with the stock, higher compresion motor. Instead they give Dave the run-around because they do not want to deal with him anymore and hope the problem will just go away. Because something they are suposed to be profesionals at is now becoming a real problem. Not only do they not want to deal with Dave they now do not want to deal with the headache of what they built. 
The solution is simple here. There is an obvious problem with the motor that was assembled by Matrix. The car ran fine untill it was installed with no problems other than the failed line. Now why does it run the way it does? Matrix owes it to Dave to stand behind their work. Matrix should take the time to double check for themselves if there is infact a problem with this motor. You notice how thay told Dave "he can put a thicker gasket in there"? This is their solution, and they expect Dave to do it. They will try to claim it is out of warranty or whatever. If infact the pistons are wrong the warranty isn't an issue at all. Wrong pistons would then be considered "deffect in parts" and is backed by Matrix as per their disclaimer on the botom of the reciept. 
I have many opinions about Matrix. Some good some bad. I once worked for them and eventually did not like being there. I am not here to bash them and am not what you would consider a bitter ex-employe, that would just be childish. I do think that all customers should be treated fairly and reasonably no mater what the personal fealings are and that buisineses should stand behind what they represent.
I hope someday someone at Matrix that doesn't believe this concept will fiqure it out, I do believe there are a few that do but are somewhat powerless to instill this philosophy in to the dealings with every customer. It is not the product, service, or knowledge that will win customers. It is and will always be customer service and word of mouth.









_Modified by Sneaky at 8:06 AM 8-27-2003_

having been in this exact situation 4 years ago, i can do nothing but agree...my car was a test bed and went through 2 motors, and approx 2 years o\f down time, during this time, alot of frustrations and so forth went on and finally came to a point to where ties were cut with the shop, after finally getting the car back together and working the probs out with the shop and coming to an agreement on why things went the way they did, i now still do business with them and have the pleasure of using their dyno whenever i need to at next to free costs, it boiled down to the shop being frustrated that they could'nt work it out( mind you this is a shop that builds 5-6-7 second turbo drag cars all day long, and they could'nt get a 4cyl to run right)...me being frustrated that it was taking so long...but in the end they took care of me and still do, had they blown me off and did nothing to help, my business would have gone elsewhere...


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results (Us2bA4dr)*

I have a matrix turbo on my car. Reading the stuff that's happened to Dave makes me think about one thing. I am so glad I live in Ohio and do my own work.


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## CORRADOFREEK (Jul 12, 2000)

*Re: Compression test results (Ohio Brian)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ohio Brian* »_I have a matrix turbo on my car. Reading the stuff that's happened to Dave makes me think about one thing. I am so glad I live in Ohio and do my own work.









but i helped


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## Sneaky (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (Ohio Brian)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ohio Brian* »_I have a matrix turbo on my car. Reading the stuff that's happened to Dave makes me think about one thing. I am so glad I live in Ohio and do my own work.









Too bad the manifold you have was Dave's and kept him from getting his car.


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results (Sneaky)*

THAT I have nothing to do with. 
I was not aware of that until about 9 or 10 months after the fact.


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## Sneaky (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (Ohio Brian)*

Oh, believe me I know...
Matrix had good intentions on what they did. However it did not work out as they intended and it was not right.
I am not critisizing you at all.


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## 1993jetta GL (Sep 17, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (Ohio Brian)*

This is mutch better than the EIP story!







It's just getting started! 
Trust Me


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Compression test results (1993jetta GL)*

Quick, someone say that they are looking for a 3.0L vr6 block. Matrix will chime right in then with their list of specs and pricing.


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (Marty)*

LOL!
Still no word from Matrix, must be on vacation or something?








The engine is going to be torn down next week. More info to follow.


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## Kokino (Dec 3, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *'89gli* »_LOL!
Still no word from Matrix, must be on vacation or something?








The engine is going to be torn down next week. More info to follow. 

Are you sure you want to tear the engine down?? I would let that be their problem! They might say you changed pistons on them or something...


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (Kokino)*

I'm just going to pull the head off to see what is the exact cause of the high compression.


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*

get that head off yet?? i'm curious..


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (Us2bA4dr)*

Not yet. Should be off by midweek.


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## GoGotheParrot (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (Marty)*

Marty you are such a jackass


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## mattstacks (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Compression test results (GoGotheParrot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GoGotheParrot* »_Marty you are such a jackass









What he said is true isnt it?


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (mattstacks)*

Okay, what's up with these Ohio people? Did a bunch of you just like get together in Oregon and decide to move to Ohio?







J/K Keep us posted with head results. Chances are you are going to find exactly what you thought - I can't think of anything that would have caused those types of results, unless they put in the right rods and changed your crankshaft on a whim?


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results (SN2BDNGRZB55)*

Dave, did you get a new manifold?


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (Ohio Brian)*

No, I'm running a handmade prototype manifold.
Good news! Just wanted to let everyone know that I received a call this afternoon and it looks like my engine problem is going to be taken care of. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## SN2BDNGRZB55 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*

Good deal Man! Good to see that things worked out....so far. Would have for things to get ugly, ya know? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Now you can enjoy these!!!


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *'89gli* »_Good news! Just wanted to let everyone know that I received a call this afternoon and it looks like my engine problem is going to be taken care of. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

That's REALLY good to hear. Matrix gets massive respect from me for doing what's right! This is the kind of story that gets told and word of mouth will keep Matrix on top! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GoGotheParrot (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (Agtronic)*

I talked to Josh on the phone today, and asked him about the motor. He said that JE admitted to sending the wrong pistons.. He just got a set in recently that were spec'd to be 8.5:1 and they cc'd out to 10.99:1







They've also been having problems with JE's new skirt design which haven't been tapered, seizing the motor when it heats up.
I hope JE can resolve the problems they've been having with VR6 pistons so there distibutors dont get a bad rep.


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## GTibunny16v (Aug 12, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results (GoGotheParrot)*

Hopefully it wont be 10 months to get this fixed


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## UncleCracker (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (GTibunny16v)*

Good luck, glad to see good is coming. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## joeZX6 (Feb 5, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results (UncleCracker)*

whats the word?


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (joeZX6)*

Just waiting to get the pistons or new block installed.


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## GoGotheParrot (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*

Dave, who is going to install the new pistons/motor? FYI Joshua Murray (the guy that built all of matrix's engines) no longer works there...


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## '89gli (Sep 2, 1999)

*Re: Compression test results (GoGotheParrot)*

Well that is news to me!







I was told that I could bring my car in on Sept. 22nd. I emailed Josh the week before and was told that they had a few projects and the following week would be better. Got the same reply the following week, too many project cars. The most recent excuse has been that Josh has been sick for a week. That's the last I've heard.
Do you know if Matrix is still in business? 


_Modified by '89gli at 10:03 AM 10-20-2003_


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## GoGotheParrot (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*

There still in business, but the guy that knew how to do all the work, Josh, no longer works there. 




_Modified by GoGotheParrot at 11:04 PM 10-20-2003_


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results (GoGotheParrot)*

Where'd he go?!?! He was the backbone of that joint.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Compression test results ('89gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *'89gli* »_Well that is news to me!







I was told that I could bring my car in on Sept. 22nd. I emailed Josh the week before and was told that they had a few projects and the following week would be better. Got the same reply the following week, too many project cars. The most recent excuse has been that Josh has been sick for a week. That's the last I've heard.
Do you know if Matrix is still in business? 

_Modified by '89gli at 10:03 AM 10-20-2003_

Damn, you got double jacked!


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## PDXJettaTurbo (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Compression test results (Marty)*

If Josh has left the building then who's building Matrix's motors now?


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## GoGotheParrot (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Compression test results (PDXJettaTurbo)*

When Josh was let go, all the mechanics left with him. All they have left is sales guys as far as I know...


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## PDXJettaTurbo (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Compression test results (GoGotheParrot)*

ummm.....my 3rd motor is / was being rebuilt there right now. Needless to say this is an interesting turn of events. 
I should have never blown the 2nd one at PIR back in July. 367hp was fun for those 20 minutes though, those Vettes only saw my tailights (and then the blue smoke). Only 1500 miles on that one


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results (GoGotheParrot)*

Josh was let go? I thought him and Jeremy started the place


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## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2001)

*Re: Compression test results (GoGotheParrot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GoGotheParrot* »_When Josh was let go, all the mechanics left with him. All they have left is sales guys as far as I know...

To clear up the confusion, Josh simply stopped showing up for work.
We have mechanics back in here, working on cars, building motors, etc.
Dave---I will email you soon.


_Modified by [email protected] at 8:19 AM 10-22-2003_


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