# Front Assist: No sensor view - Question



## Zabes64 (Aug 29, 2018)

So my car has been at the dealership for 13 days, I had my Front Assist: No Sensor View happen twice, neither time using ACC, once in rain once in sunny weather.

VW Tech initially refused to fix the issue even though they had pictures and video because the dealership couldn't replicate the issue (no complaints about my dealer they are great).

Higher ups got involved and now VWTech is saying that they believe my camera may be the issue, because I have traffic sign detection and they want to reset the camera then give it back to me and see if it happens again. 

Is anyone familiar enough as to whether the camera has anything to do with Front Assist?

My assumption is no because my Lane Assist continues to work and the coding for the traffic camera was done 9800ish miles previous without issue and the last coding having anything to do with the camera was 1800 miles and just over 3 months earlier.

Thanks in advance, obviously I'm frustrated being in IT where if you change a code and screw it up the errors happen immediately not several months later.


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## SquarebackVR6 (Dec 5, 2017)

Zabes64 said:


> So my car has been at the dealership for 13 days, I had my Front Assist: No Sensor View happen twice, neither time using ACC, once in rain once in sunny weather.
> 
> VW Tech initially refused to fix the issue even though they had pictures and video because the dealership couldn't replicate the issue (no complaints about my dealer they are great).
> 
> ...


I'd have your dealership take a look at the front radar in the emblem/ or the emblem itself, from what I was told that handled Front assist, where the camera handles lane keep. You can read my saga below...

I had the same thing happen to me, sometimes in the rain (in Oregon so that happens a lot here), sometimes on clear days, every time was after an hour of driving (My thought was some IC was failing after being powered on for x amount of time), after I would arrive at my destination and the car was shut off for 15-30min the error would go away. 
I took it into my dealership, they said they couldn't replicate the issue, Told them to take it on an hour road trip and they finally got it to happen. Their first step was yanking off a QC sticker on the inside of the emblem and recalibrated the radar. They thought since the sticker was peeling off and they thought that might be to blame. 
A month later, it did the same thing, so they then replaced my front emblem entirely, and again recalibrated the radar system. This fixed it for a few months. 
Then I went on a road trip on thanksgiving and 10min on the road the front radar sensor outright failed and said no sensor view for the whole trip. With the car parked for a few days, it still had the error. 
I took it back into the dealership and then replaced the entire radar assembly, which was completely dead. I haven't had an issue since then (knock on wood). 

I think my dealership handled it great, I'm also in IT and HATE intermittent issues, so I completely understood their train of thought when it came to the QC sticker, then emblem, and then finally the radar sensor itself. 

Good Luck!


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## Zabes64 (Aug 29, 2018)

Thanks good to hear, unfortunately VW is doing everything and anything but the actual radar unit.


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## Zabes64 (Aug 29, 2018)

And VW believes that the radar could be failing due to coding done thousands of miles previously. Who wants to bet that within days off getting it back it will fail again?


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## Zabes64 (Aug 29, 2018)

Update in case anyone is interested. It's also safe to say that if you have a vinyl sticker on your front badge, assume they'll blame that as well first.

VW is doing a FULL RESET of all my coding to bring the car back to stock to try and address the issue. They said they were bringing it back to stock at no charge, yay.

Frustrating that I'm 100% this is not coding as the last coding on the mirror was 9600 miles earlier.

It's also been in the shop for 17 days and will be 19 come Monday.. This is ridiculous vs replacing the front radar which they did on my 2018 and that solved the problem, which also has the same coding.


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## Zabes64 (Aug 29, 2018)

Fellow CODERS Take Note

While it seems this post may only be helpful to a few people, maybe in the future, here is another update.

Out of service days: 21

On Friday they began recoding the entire car back to stock, every change made. They still seem to believe that the coding done 9600 miles ago caused the ACC to give 2 front assist failures in 2 weeks, which is closer to 5 days with current amount of driving.

They apparently are doing more test drives, then having the quality manager come out.

Still they do not believe the 2 failures had anything to do with the actual ACC unit. 

They've invested more time in energy to try and prove it's coding that caused the issue (especially the speed limit sign recognition keeps getting mentioned), than what it would cost to replace the ACC unit.


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## jonese (Jun 21, 2020)

Wonder if they are building a test case and eventually make an example out of you (for VCDS usage).


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## Paddie.e.kelly (Jan 4, 2020)

Zabes64 said:


> Fellow CODERS Take Note
> 
> While it seems this post may only be helpful to a few people, maybe in the future, here is another update.
> 
> ...


Yikes - looks like VW is pulling out all the stops just to avoid warranty work.
I'll take note as my Lane Assist as been turning itself off periodically and I've coded Lane Centering, and Traffic Sign Recognition. Wanted to flag that at my dealership during my first Oil Change in the next few weeks but may just leave it...


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## Zabes64 (Aug 29, 2018)

jonese said:


> Wonder if they are building a test case and eventually make an example out of you (for VCDS usage).


Agreed, could be, though they are rolling it back at no charge. 

This also has the opposite effect as well, if it faults again, that they cannot unilaterally claim coding.

My IT background says it will likely fail again, bc of how long between coding and failure, plus my 18s ACC failed and was replaced prior to any coding done on that car and hasn't had an issue since.


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## Zabes64 (Aug 29, 2018)

Paddie.e.kelly said:


> Zabes64 said:
> 
> 
> > Fellow CODERS Take Note
> ...


That's the weird thing, they have their executive office involved, they sent someone out, a quality manager to go over everything... They are spending a lot more time/energy than they needed to vs just replacing the part.


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## Zabes64 (Aug 29, 2018)

Here is an update, it really is beginning to get ridiculous.

Customer care, who really have been very nice through this, called to say that the coding on the car masked their ability to see what might be wrong with it, however, what they "think" is wrong with it has nothing to do with coding, so this is now the 2nd time VW had tried to blame enabling features through coding, as the reason for an issue, and both times it hasn't been.

They now believe the reason for the failure is that the car needs a 4 wheel alignment. Mind you, hasn't been pulling to the side of anything, and if that was the case, it should have been something they checked in the first 13 days they had the car. They had no reason to believe it was coding, other than they wanted to believe it was.

So now being forced to pay for an alignment and recalibration in hopes that it fixes the problem, but even VW says they aren't sure.

Amazing that instead of just replacing the front radar from the start, they are trying to look anywhere but the front radar, even though my 18s radar failed in the first 45d of ownership and others have had their front radars fail.

Car has been in the shop now for 24 days and counting and there is no guarantee this fixes the issue.

Went from someone that loved the VW brand to I wouldn't ever tell anyone to buy one with how this is being handled.

Dealership has been great through this, but WTF


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Front Assist (forward collision warning/automated emergency braking) is handled by the forward-facing radar, the same thing that handles ACC if you have that option. ACC is essentially a software license in the same hardware. Although there is sensor fusion functionality with the multifunction camera, depending on application, visibility issues with the camera would show up as something else.

I confess to some curiosity why you didn't take the five minutes to restore your coding from backup before turning the car over the dealer. Is it unrelated? Almost certainly. Are you going to go through a round of restoring everything to known-good-working configuration during the process of troubleshooting? Absolutely.

That said...



Zabes64 said:


> Update in case anyone is interested. It's also safe to say that if you have a vinyl sticker on your front badge, assume they'll blame that as well first.


Good news, they found your problem for you. You can go pick up your Tiguan today.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolled...stomer_states_adaptive_cruise_control_doesnt/



Your owner's manual said:


> Tips and troubleshooting
> 📷Read and follow the introductory information and safety information first⇒📷Introduction to the subject
> 
> 📷 ACC not available
> ...


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## Zabes64 (Aug 29, 2018)

jyoung8607 said:


> Front Assist (forward collision warning/automated emergency braking) is handled by the forward-facing radar, the same thing that handles ACC if you have that option. ACC is essentially a software license in the same hardware. Although there is sensor fusion functionality with the multifunction camera, depending on application, visibility issues with the camera would show up as something else.
> 
> I confess to some curiosity why you didn't take the five minutes to restore your coding from backup before turning the car over the dealer. Is it unrelated? Almost certainly. Are you going to go through a round of restoring everything to known-good-working configuration during the process of troubleshooting? Absolutely.
> 
> ...


Literally nothing you wrote was helpful or useful. 

The badge was clean, the weather was sunny and clear and the Front assist failed the second time, front Assist and the ACC failed

I didn't clear the coding because the camera wasn't the issue, the radar was, just like when my 2018's radar failed within 45 days and they replaced it with the same only seeing pictures/videos and it has worked fine ever since.

But hey thanks for chiming in, people love posts like that, they're super helpful to the community.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Zabes64 said:


> Update in case anyone is interested. It's also safe to say that if you have a vinyl sticker on your front badge, assume they'll blame that as well first.


Are you just mentioning vinyl stickers on the front badge randomly for no particular reason, or did your vehicle have one?



Zabes64 said:


> The badge was clean


Because if it did, this statement is false.



Zabes64 said:


> I didn't clear the coding because the camera wasn't the issue


I don't necessarily disagree that enabling traffic sign detection isn't the problem. I think you're right there. But the camera and radar do exchange data (sensor fusion) in many vehicles, including all modern MQBs equipped with Bosch MPC2 and MRR1Plus/MRRevo14F running VW firmware. I think Tiguans are sort of unique in that they get Continental forward radars instead of Bosch, though they run the same software from a functional perspective. I can't recall if the Contis are set up for cross-vendor sensor fusion since the camera is still Bosch.

Point being, they're set up to work as a set in most modern cars, and testing in a known good as-it-left-the-factory configuration involves them both as a general practice, and making the choice not to restore your factory config is a voluntary choice to extend the troubleshooting timeline.

While your particular change may not have caused the issue, Volkswagen corporate has gotten so tired of spending warranty dollars and putting corporate QTMs on planes to un**** OBDEleven shenanigans that they've shut down a lot of the fun on MQBevo (Golf 8 and all future MQB) going forward. Just to give you some more flavor around why a back-to-factory approach is happening.



Zabes64 said:


> But hey thanks for chiming in, people love posts like that, they're super helpful to the community.


You know, I laid on the snark a little too hard in my last post, so I was going to apologize and dial it back, but...



Zabes64 said:


> the radar was, just like when my 2018's *radar* failed within 45 days and they replaced it with the same *only seeing pictures/videos* and it has worked fine ever since.


Maybe you should get one of those fancy new 4k radars, that 720p radar is old and busted! 

Edit: unless you meant you were showing them pictures of the warning on your dash, in which case, that can certainly help in communicating your concern to the service advisor, but pictures/video aren't what got it replaced. What actually would have happened is ODIS would have stepped the technician though a guided fault-finding (GFF) plan based on the fault history data stored in the ACC radar. Either the GFF plan result or the VTA tech line guidance was to replace the radar based on the outcome of that troubleshooting plan. If the dealer doesn't have one of those two things, they don't get paid on the warranty claim. If they aren't replacing the radar on your Tiguan now, something is different about the fault.

On a serious note, it doesn't take much to degrade a 76GHz low power radar signal, and I doubt your vinyl manufacturer provided a dBm attenuation spec. If you've got a wrap on it, don't do that. Even if your vinyl guy says it's fine. Even if it worked for all those other people on the Internet. Even if it worked yesterday.


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## Zabes64 (Aug 29, 2018)

So I don't have a vinyl wrap, the point was VW is looking for any reason that a fault can happen, so for people that do have the vinyl on and get that fault, expect VW to want to remove that, another poster said VW was blaming an interior sticker on theirs unit.

The coding was done 9600 miles prior, the two are not linked, and VW spent the time to bring it back to stock to confirm the fault with the Front Assist and ACC was not coding or the camera. Obviously in the future I'll have to roll back coding so they don't have an excuse.

When I talk about taking video/photographs, I mean if the faults, I've had vehicles where dealerships would say we cannot recreate the issue and because the issue was so random nothing would get fixed until they started seeing videos; just because they cannot duplicate it, if they have proof it is occurring, in a few states it creates a reasonable expectation for the manufacturer to have to fix the issue, because they knew the fault was occurring.

Just like with my 2018 they found no codes logged, the 18 was possibly fixed because it was within the first 45 days, but it solved the problem.

Currently they believe it could be the alignment, the front left toe is 0d03' right toe is -0d01' for a total toe of 0d03'

And the rears are both -0d02' for a total toe of -0d04'

I had 2 friends are mechanics look at the numbers and they said if that is causing the front radars to fail, then he'd be concerned.

Sure I gave you some snark back, but seriously, people don't appreciate unhelpful posts. I don't have to share this, but one day someone may have the same issues happen to their car and some of it might be helpful, especially don't just accept that the manufacturer doesn't want to fix your car.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Zabes64 said:


> So I don't have a vinyl wrap, the point was VW is looking for any reason that a fault can happen, so for people that do have the vinyl on and get that fault, expect VW to want to remove that, another poster said VW was blaming an interior sticker on theirs unit.


Fair enough, but I trust you'll understand your earlier post makes it seem very much like you had one.



Zabes64 said:


> The coding was done 9600 miles prior, the two are not linked, and VW spent the time to bring it back to stock to confirm the fault with the Front Assist and ACC was not coding or the camera. Obviously in the future I'll have to roll back coding so they don't have an excuse.


:thumbup:



Zabes64 said:


> When I talk about taking video/photographs, I mean if the faults, I've had vehicles where dealerships would say we cannot recreate the issue and because the issue was so random nothing would get fixed until they started seeing videos; just because they cannot duplicate it, if they have proof it is occurring, in a few states it creates a reasonable expectation for the manufacturer to have to fix the issue, because they knew the fault was occurring.


It definitely helps to have evidence, if nothing else for communication and clarity, but also for proof if an issue does need to be forced along, agreed.



Zabes64 said:


> Just like with my 2018 they found no codes logged, the 18 was possibly fixed because it was within the first 45 days, but it solved the problem.


Here's where I'm going to disagree. If a fault showed up on the instrument cluster, forensic traces got stored at the same time. If the radar unit thought there was a problem, it would have stored a DTC at the exact same time it set the fault bit/text in the CAN message to the instrument cluster. That DTC history would have persisted for many ignition cycles unless cleared. If the radar straight up died instead of storing a fault, that would have been obvious as well, because several control modules that it talks to would have stored "missing message" or "no communications" DTCs. If there's no logs, then either a lot of ignition cycles have passed since you had the problem (see the Reset counter) or you cleared codes from OBDEleven or similar. Those are the only ways your dealer and VWoA would be flying in the dark. 

Example of the fault data stored for a visibility/blockage issue:


```
1538 - Sensor for Automatic Distance Control 
          C110B F0 [008] - Limited Visibility
          [FAULT_SENSOR_BLIND]
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 4
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 226
                    Mileage: 104533 km
                    Date: 2019.01.01
                    Time: 01:12:00

                    Control Module temperature: 15 °C
                    Voltage terminal 15: 14.6 V
                    Velocity_vehicle_reference: 14.33 m/s
                    Longitudinal_acceleration_vehicle_reference: -0.17 m/s²
                    Status_ACC_System: ACC_StandBy
```
Example of the fault data stored for radar mounting misalignment:


```
0791 - Sensor for Automatic Distance Regulation; Incorrectly Positioned 
          C1103 00 [008] - -
          [FAULT_MISALIGNMENT_VERTICAL]
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 4
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 56
                    Mileage: 40395 km
                    Date: 2019.07.17
                    Time: 11:54:17

                    Control Module temperature: 43 °C
                    Voltage terminal 15: 14.5 V
                    Velocity_vehicle_reference: 4.23 m/s
                    Longitudinal_acceleration_vehicle_reference: -1.69 m/s²
                    Status_ACC_System: ACC_StandBy
```



Zabes64 said:


> Currently they believe it could be the alignment, the front left toe is 0d03' right toe is -0d01' for a total toe of 0d03'
> 
> And the rears are both -0d02' for a total toe of -0d04'
> 
> I had 2 friends are mechanics look at the numbers and they said if that is causing the front radars to fail, then he'd be concerned.


I'm not sure offhand what the tolerances are, but alignment is definitely part of the whole system working. In order for ACC to do its job, to do things like pick out and track the right lead car in your lane, on a four lane highway with four cars abreast on a curve 150 meters ahead, there must be extremely close agreement between the radar (reflection point angles offset from dead-ahead with range-rates/Doppler), camera (lane recognition and angles offset from dead-ahead), and ABS/ESC's (raw steering wheel angle at 0.1 degree precision, compensated with both short and long-term straight-ahead tracking offsets and adjusted for variable steering ratio on cars with nonlinear racks) idea of which way is straight forward and what your true steering angle is. It's something that's continuously auto-learned/corrected within a limited tolerance band, but it does need a decent starting point.



Zabes64 said:


> Sure I gave you some snark back, but seriously, people don't appreciate unhelpful posts. I don't have to share this, but one day someone may have the same issues happen to their car and some of it might be helpful, especially don't just accept that the manufacturer doesn't want to fix your car.


Fair enough. As feedback in return, the vinyl thing was a major red herring. And there's no cackling bean-counter at VWoA HQ getting off on not fixing your car. They've already spent waaaay more than their per-unit cost of a replacement radar the moment they rolled a QTM out to your dealer to look at your car. If a QTM has been there and looked at it and decided not to replace your radar at this time, it's because they don't think replacing your radar would fix the problem.


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## Zabes64 (Aug 29, 2018)

So I agree with you that there should be a code, the master tech actually called today prior to doing the alignment and he said they don't know what is causing it and don't know if this (alignment) is going to fix it.

He said there are NO CODES (not being a smart ass, but seriously that's why VW and he are perplexed, no codes) yet the video and pictures confirm it, so they are at a loss.

The other issue that I spoke with my mechanic friends about are:

1 rear alignment thrust is 0d straight forward, so that's not affecting the car.

Being 1 minute or less below tolerance is very concerning because people driving will not be able to tell that they are just over the tolerance alignment. And that the radar would have more tolerance than the alignment itself, otherwise every VW car that has just the slightest misalignment risks failure of the Front Assist and Crash Avoidance and that puts millions of people at risk, something VW is certainly not going to want to admit that they built a system where a normal person driving would not have the slightest idea that their car was minutely misaligned and their Forward Crash assist could fault at any time.

I really appreciate that you were being more helpful in your later replies, meant alot!

I understand what you were saying about the vinyl cover, I brought it up because literally VW is grasping at anything but replacing the radar unit.

Forcing me to pay $1229 to align the car and recalibrate the radar and cameras just to continue diagnosis is wrong, when they don't know what is wrong.


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## Reihenmotor5 (Dec 1, 2006)

I can assure you Zabes has never had a vinyl overlay as he's local to me and we've assisted each other with codings, but I do have a front emblem overlay. We've discussed this since he wants me to be aware if I experience the same issue in the future and he was helping others who have done a Badgeskins front emblem application. I doubt his alignment is the issue as it needs to be out pretty bad, like dumping over 600 lbs worth of waterlogged mulch in the back of a 3 row Tiguan to throw out the rear alignment so much that the camera is out causing recalibration of the entire system after an alignment. Those numbers presented is not the cause.


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## Zabes64 (Aug 29, 2018)

So today is consecutive day 31 in the shop. I spoke to VW on Tuesday evening and they said the QTM was at the dealership that afternoon with the tech while they did the alignment and recalibration and it should be done that evening or the next day, they need to test drive it.

Fast forward to Wednesday, nothing heard from the dealership, so I quickly type up a notice of non-conformity, as it was day 28, to send and give VW notice by day 29 that the car was going to be out of service 30 days straight and overnighted it to Michigan.

Didn't have time to speak to the VW rep Wednesday or Thursday evening and they were going to be out of the office by 1pm Friday. I mean really what's the point? If the car isn't done, do I really need the stress of finding out that they test drove it and it didn't fix it and now they are trying something else?

I let my VW rep know as if Thursday night I still do not have my car back and no reason to speak until Monday until the dealership/VW are done with whatever they are doing.

Anyone else dealt with having their car sit for repairs because VW did everything but fix the most obvious thing, the part?


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## Zabes64 (Aug 29, 2018)

UPDATE:

Got the car back Aug 5, alignment was off by 1 minute on the left side, front and back, that's 0.007409" was charged $1229.57 to fix and recalibrate.

Friday the 7th I got an email from Continental Head of Law asking about the situation since the radar was made by then. Then later that day the Emergency Brakes deployed at low speed with no cars/obstructions.

Tuesday the 11th hit the brakes hard at low speed and the front assist faulted again.

Thursday 13th sent a request for repurchase/replacement since it's now a warranty repair and the cars been out of service 33 days for this repair alone.

Also got an email from an Investigative Engineer with the NHTSA in response to my emails to the Executive Director of the NHTSA and the Virginia Attorney General.

Bringing the car back in today.

The Mrs will not drive mine, she's afraid of the emergency braking or the crash assist faulting. 

The reps from VW have been incredibly nice, it's the only reason I would still consider a replacement, I give them a ton of credit for that part is the customer service side of things.


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## usuario_b (Feb 24, 2020)

So what happeened?


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