# What horsepower should I expect to see?



## Nick_V08 (Aug 2, 2012)

With these mods, For at the Wheel HP and At the Crank HP?

Tsudo Mid-pipe, Carbonio CAI, Catback exhaust and C2 Race File tune.

Curious what I could be looking at to get.

Tsudo Pipe link: http://www.semotors.com/tsudo-vw-rabbit-golf-06-10-2-5l-mk5-2dr-4dr-hatchback-downpipe/

Only linking it since not many people have it on here.


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## bmxer13 (May 9, 2012)

Maybe 200 whp? That's being modest to


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## Rabbidrabbitt (Mar 21, 2011)

Nope, maybe 150-!60ish


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## bmxer13 (May 9, 2012)

I believe it also might matter what year his car is tho..


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

Honest guess, maybe at the most 165/170whp. He has an 08 listed in his profile.

Edit, thought I saw exhaust headers... 160 max whp. Rabbidrabbit is pretty much on point.


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## autojerks (Jan 29, 2013)

08? Roughly 160 as others said


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## bmxer13 (May 9, 2012)

GTACanuck said:


> Honest guess, maybe at the most 165/170whp. He has an 08 listed in his profile.
> 
> Edit, thought I saw exhaust headers... 160 max whp. Rabbidrabbit is pretty much on point.


Ah ok. Sorry using the tapatalk app and didn't see his sig.


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## Nick_V08 (Aug 2, 2012)

Hm so around 165 to the wheels.. Which would be like 185 or so to the crank? Seems way too low to me for an 08..


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Nick_V08 said:


> Hm so around 165 to the wheels.. Which would be like 185 or so to the crank? Seems way too low to me for an 08..


Why does that sound low to you? The year really doesnt matter once you have a tune also.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

bmxer13 said:


> Maybe 200 whp? That's being modest to


Hahaha really? Must know alot about these engines :what:.


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## Rabbidrabbitt (Mar 21, 2011)

MKV=Racecar


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## HelloMyNameIs (Aug 2, 2011)

Rabbidrabbitt said:


> MKV=Racecar


QFT :laugh:


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## bmxer13 (May 9, 2012)

tay272 said:


> Hahaha really? Must know alot about these engines :what:.


Whoa buddy calm it down there. If its anything like the jetta (which is the same engine) it should make 170-175 stock. http://http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2008/volkswagen/rabbit/specifications/
Proof
So I know a little more then you think I do.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

bmxer13 said:


> Whoa buddy calm it down there. If its anything like the jetta (which is the same engine) it should make 170-175 stock. http://http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2008/volkswagen/rabbit/specifications/
> Proof
> So I know a little more then you think I do.


Thats 170-175hp at the crank (advertised) These motors dyno at around 140whp stock. 

At the moment the only way to get to or close to 200whp NA is with a sri, and the supporting mods listed above... well and itbs.


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## bmxer13 (May 9, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> Thats 170-175hp at the crank (advertised) These motors dyno at around 140whp stock.
> 
> At the moment the only way to get to or close to 200whp NA is with a sri, and the supporting mods listed above... well and itbs.


Ah ok thanks for clarifying that


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

bmxer13 said:


> Whoa buddy calm it down there. If its anything like the jetta (which is the same engine) it should make 170-175 stock. http://http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2008/volkswagen/rabbit/specifications/
> Proof
> So I know a little more then you think I do.


Common knowledge to most of us but since your new, I'll cut you some slack. Just think before you post next time.


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## jaja123 (Jan 17, 2011)

i made 167 whp on a dyno dynamics with carbonio, usp catted midpipe, and gti catback and unitronic with my 2010. considering its a small non high revving n/a engine the gains were as expected.


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

Hmm...I thought a solid 200 hp would include a header as well with the above mods. Or will the addition of a header break the 200 hp mark?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Cherb32 said:


> Hmm...I thought a solid 200 hp would include a header as well with the above mods. Or will the addition of a header break the 200 hp mark?


I would say there are to many factors to estimate closer than within +/- 5-10hp of a random list of parts.


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## bmxer13 (May 9, 2012)

tay272 said:


> Common knowledge to most of us but since your new, I'll cut you some slack. Just think before you post next time.


Ah ok I forgot your the Internet god. How bout next time you just correct me where I'm wrong and leave the assholness at the door. This is a forum were all here to learn and get along and don't really need to get bagged on or put down for saying something wrong.


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

bmxer13 said:


> Ah ok I forgot your the Internet god. How bout next time you just correct me where I'm wrong and leave the assholness at the door. This is a forum were all here to learn and get along and don't really need to get bagged on or put down for saying something wrong.


Sorry, but it is also a forum with a search feature. These types of threads have been talked about way too much and have been beaten to death.:banghead:


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## bmxer13 (May 9, 2012)

GTACanuck said:


> Sorry, but it is also a forum with a search feature. These types of threads have been talked about way too much and have been beaten to death.:banghead:


I agree and am not trying to justify I just didn't think his reply back to me was justifyable that's all


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

bmxer13 said:


> I agree and am not trying to justify I just didn't think his reply back to me was justifyable that's all


I've been around these tech forums for years now. And that response was very mild and hate to say it, somewhat justifiable. If you do hang around these forums long enough, it is common knowledge. Stick around, get to know us a bit. We aren't the *******s that you may think we are. :thumbup::beer:


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Well put :beer:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

200whp. Lol try 160 max. You will never come close without a SRI, or FI. And headers add little to no gains, my old EJ gave like 4whp up top, the Evo like 7whp. I ended up back at stock header with a USP high flow cat mid pipe. Wait for cams if you wanna break the 200whp barrier staying on pump gas, instead of e85


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## Ferd Burfel (Feb 4, 2012)

bmxer13 said:


> Ah ok I forgot your the Internet god. How bout next time you just correct me where I'm wrong and leave the assholness at the door. This is a forum were all here to learn and get along and don't really need to get bagged on or put down for saying something wrong.


Welcome to Vortex. Everyone here is mean to everyone else all the time. 

Most of us also think it's necessary to enter a thread we know will be something we've seen before just to point out it's been seen before. Then we'll be dicks and tell you that you should have just searched for it. We then pretend that it's a waste of time and that it bothers us that so many of the same thread exists, so we can post yet again about it being a waste of time and that it bothers us.

Anytime you post something on here it'll be about 70% people telling you you're dumb and should have searched for it, while 30% will just answer the question.

As soon as you get around to having the entitled attitude that you own VWVortex and that people here are just wasting your time, you'll fit in perfectly.

Oh, and lower it.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Ferd Burfel said:


> Welcome to Vortex.
> 
> Oh, and lower it.


:beer: 

Oh and +1


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Maybe 180 crank on 93 octane- less on 91.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> 200whp. Lol try 160 max. You will never come close without a SRI, or FI. And headers add little to no gains, my old EJ gave like 4whp up top, the Evo like 7whp. I ended up back at stock header with a USP high flow cat mid pipe. Wait for cams if you wanna break the 200whp barrier staying on pump gas, instead of e85


max without turbo so far is ~220-230 whp by doing it all with e85.

if you do ITB, then thats another matter.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> max without turbo so far is ~220-230 whp by doing it all with e85.
> 
> if you do ITB, then thats another matter.


Yep. :beer:


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## Rabbidrabbitt (Mar 21, 2011)

thygreyt said:


> max without turbo so far is ~220-230 whp by doing it all with e85.
> 
> if you do ITB, then thats another matter.


Who has this e85 tune? And what was the setup of the e85 car? I would love an e85 tune, but I would have to go out of my way to get e85. Would it be worth it for a few extra ponies?


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## Nick_V08 (Aug 2, 2012)

Well ANYWHO lol.

I get my files back tomorrow from C2 and my car will be tuned finally!

And I had talked to C2 also bout the HP thing, they said with my mods I could be looking around 175-180 ish WHP. If it is around there, I'm perfectly happy. If I decide I realllly want to keep this car forever (hypothetically) ill invest in the SRI and tune to get me 200+ WHP. I got no plans of going Turbo being as I love the N/A-ness of this engine.


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

Rabbidrabbitt said:


> Who has this e85 tune? And what was the setup of the e85 car? I would love an e85 tune, but I would have to go out of my way to get e85. Would it be worth it for a few extra ponies?


This please, the station down the block from me sells E85, other than injectors what hardware is needed?


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

thygreyt said:


> max without turbo so far is ~220-230 whp by doing it all with e85.
> 
> if you do ITB, then thats another matter.


I spent two months researching this, and ITBs cost over ten grand all said and done. Not worth it IMO. If you want big power, the only reasonable solution is forced induction.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

Rabbidrabbitt said:


> Who has this e85 tune? And what was the setup of the e85 car? I would love an e85 tune, but I would have to go out of my way to get e85. Would it be worth it for a few extra ponies?


It's a FlexFuel kit sold by Bluewater with UM software and injectors.

Jeff has told me that if I can get him my car he'll set up a meth tune for these cars. I'll be taking him up on that after I get the rest of my hardware in order.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> I spent two months researching this, and ITBs cost over ten grand all said and done. Not worth it IMO. If you want big power, the only reasonable solution is forced induction.


ITBs can be done for cheaper than $10k. Quite a bit less. Ive been looking into this also.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> ITBs can be done for cheaper than $10k. Quite a bit less. Ive been looking into this also.


Then let's brainstorm via PM. I want ITBs --*badly*, but I'm not willing to spend more than the five to six grand I would dump into a track-grade turbo setup.

The way I see it with big fat race cams and high comp+overbore internals, there's no reason a track car running ITBs can't get close to 300 ponies to the ground.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

But wouldn't you have to run a plenum on the pre mafless cars? Local shop also said you can get e90 M5 V10 row of 5 itbs setup already for dbw, and that there's no real reason it shouldn't work with proper wiring and tuning, or standalone. I tend to agree, but I'm not a engineer so maybe it won't.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

kevin splits said:


> Local shop also said you can get e90 M5 V10 row of 5 itbs setup already for dbw, and that there's no real reason it shouldn't work with proper wiring and tuning, or standalone. I tend to agree, but I'm not a engineer so maybe it won't.


Yes they _would_ work some additional fabrication. I seriously doubt they're spaced properly.

On the OE ECU, there's issues with the trottle pressure sensors closing if they get out of sync. Josh from NLS and I shot a few messages back and forth, and he told me they used the OEM TB as a controller for their ITB rabbit setup. I've got an education in semiconductors, but I couldn't ever figure out how to set up what he was getting at --that type of gadget thinking just isn't how my brain works.



kevin splits said:


> But wouldn't you have to run a plenum on the pre mafless cars?


If I were running standalone, I'd be adding a 4-5in MAF and running a plenum anyways. I've done ITBs before, and they're a major pain in the ass to get idling properly without a MAF and a plenum.

Not to mention, if don't like you don't like smelling your PCV and SAI at stoplights, you'll need one anyways. You *can* just tap one runner, but why would you want to run all that crap into just one cylinder? IMHO, it's easier to clean TBs than mess with uneven distribution of emissions reuptake.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Yes, there would need to be a plenum for cars with a maf. and no real need for more brainstorming.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> Yes, there would need to be a plenum for cars with a maf. and no real need for more brainstorming.


Please don't tease me, and just spill the beans. I want to build an ITB setup, but I just don't know enough about these throttle body position sensors to get the job done.


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