# Mk4 1.8T ecu tuning options chart



## Dr. Stu (Jul 30, 2011)

I spent a few hours scowering the sites for mk4 1.8T flash tuning options. I would like to get all the info in one place to share. Maybe fill in some of the blanks I have. My HP and Torque numbers are based upon the AWP 180HP/173lb-ft. I did this because I am trying to figure out the best option for myself. 






I want a stage 2. Looks like cheapest is just get one tune. I also want to delete cat, sai, n112, n249 so I need a tune that deletes all that stuff. Mostly the secondary air flow fault because n112, n249, and n80 can be resistored out.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

:facepalm:

Dont sit there and decide one tuner vs the other based on a 5 "claimed" hp.

I woud suggest drive in cars with various tunes then decide from there.

Gonzo Tuning has some nice files, good oppurtunity for expansion, and best of all a good price.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

The only one of those files that will break 200 whp is the Unitronic. But in the same breath I wouldn't waste money on them. Like Dave said, go Gonzo. I made ~230whp /270lbft the dyno is on his site under the star 2 files (which is ~275crank Hp and the numbers that those tunes are advertising are CHP not WHP).

You also get launch control, program switching, deletes, stuff that the other companies don't do.

Here's the Dyno sheet. It did dyno more later after fixed the N75 (that's why there's a dip in the curve, not the dip of the K03 losing boost)


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

What about a fully programmable, configurable, loggable, etc... ECU which is 100% plug and play in the ME7 (DBW) 1.8T-s?


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

Sim said:


> What about a fully programmable, configurable, loggable, etc... ECU which is 100% plug and play in the ME7 (DBW) 1.8T-s?


Buy an emulator


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## Dr. Stu (Jul 30, 2011)

Ah yes I missed gonzo, I will add that to the chart later today. I am just looking for a flash tune that will be good to go. I don't have the want or need for a fully programmable ecu the point of posting this is to get some info on flash tunes all in one place. I don't care about 5hp here or there. I live in the Cleveland, Ohio area and I will have to find some fellow mk4 folks and see what the general consensus is. Dmvdub I appreciate your helpful post with dyno sheet. I will have to study into gonzo. Thanks.

Edit: I added Gonzo to the table in google which auto updated it here. I agree that it seems the best bang for the buck. I find it strange that required equipment is a 4 bar fpr. Upping the fuel pressure to get more out of the injectors. I hope the tune still keeps the injector duty cycle well within safe ranges. I am looking for more power but don't want to borderline "safe" operating ranges. I understand the engine and turbo with higher mileage may fail but I have read many testimonials that say something to the effect of I have 177,000 miles and still going strong on such and such tune.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

Beachbuggy said:


> Buy an emulator


I dont really get it. Could you explain it to me?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Sim said:


> What about a fully programmable, configurable, loggable, etc... ECU which is 100% plug and play in the ME7 (DBW) 1.8T-s?


Around here we have to keep the stock ecu to maintain emissions compliance.



Beachbuggy said:


> Buy an emulator


Good idea. OLS3000 starts at $2500. 



Dr. Stu said:


> Ah yes I missed gonzo, I will add that to the chart later today. I am just looking for a flash tune that will be good to go. I don't have the want or need for a fully programmable ecu the point of posting this is to get some info on flash tunes all in one place. I don't care about 5hp here or there. I live in the Cleveland, Ohio area and I will have to find some fellow mk4 folks and see what the general consensus is. Dmvdub I appreciate your helpful post with dyno sheet. I will have to study into gonzo. Thanks.
> 
> Edit: I added Gonzo to the table in google which auto updated it here. I agree that it seems the best bang for the buck. I find it strange that required equipment is a 4 bar fpr. Upping the fuel pressure to get more out of the injectors. I hope the tune still keeps the injector duty cycle well within safe ranges. I am looking for more power but don't want to borderline "safe" operating ranges. I understand the engine and turbo with higher mileage may fail but I have read many testimonials that say something to the effect of I have 177,000 miles and still going strong on such and such tune.


A maxed out stock turbi with a 4bar is going to max out the injectors. Watch corrections, because the fuel pump may be weak as well.

Ive got 242k on mine, and I posted a picture yesteday with my boost gauge swinging past 25lbs. I use maestro, its alittle more advanced butgives you more options.



Sim said:


> I dont really get it. Could you explain it to me?


Use an emultor to tunr an engine in real time.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

Dave926 said:


> Around here we have to keep the stock ecu to maintain emissions compliance.


Of course, but how do they check if you got the original or an aftermarket ECU (with OBD2 support) in it?
I guess as you remove sec.air system (even with the factory ECU) you are already violating laws there (not mentioning de catting with stock ECU).



Dave926 said:


> Use an emultor to tunr an engine in real time.


You have already pointed out the (probably) biggest issue (price), but still you would be limited by the capabilities (and features) of the stock ECU. Emulators are IMHO not an option here.

***

I was just asking, because i also saw some quite high prices on the chart above. Just a "little bit more" and one can buy a SEM (ok not necessarily 100% ME7 pinout compatible). But lets assume, if there would be a competitively priced one.


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

There are no limitations to what ME7 can do. The only limitations are due to a tuners knowledge. We offer 2 step launch control standard on our tunes, and CAN do boost by gear, and many other features if a customer is willing to pay for it.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

[email protected] Performance said:


> There are no limitations to what ME7 can do.


ME7 and all of its successors are great ECUs, no doubt. Maybe you just did not let your imagination to soar when stating this .

BTW: I do not intend to hijack the thread.


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## Dr. Stu (Jul 30, 2011)

[email protected] Performance said:


> There are no limitations to what ME7 can do. The only limitations are due to a tuners knowledge. We offer 2 step launch control standard on our tunes, and CAN do boost by gear, and many other features if a customer is willing to pay for it.


Good to know. I like what I see on the Gonzo site. Where is Gonzo headquarters? I didn't see it listed on the site. I only saw two independent dealers, one in TX and one in MN. I was doing a little reading on the launch control too. I think soft launch would be best as to not put too much stress on the engine/turbo. I have no need for 2 step to shoot fireballs. I was hoping for somewhere somewhat close to Cleveland but maybe I'll make a trip to a big meet that Gonzo is going to be at. 

You also may be able to answer why is it necessary for a 4 bar fpr for the 2+ when most other tuners don't. Does it keep the injector duty cycles in a safe range? say under 85%? Or is that to lower the IDC because without it on a 3bar it would be near "unsafe" levels?


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

We're located in Bear Delaware. Shoot me a pm and we'll swap phone numbers :beer:


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

Sim said:


> ME7 and all of its successors are great ECUs, no doubt. Maybe you just did not let your imagination to soar when stating this .
> 
> BTW: I do not intend to hijack the thread.


You'd be hard pressed to find a standalone as capable as ME7 for under $3000. Vipec, maybe..

ME7 is capable of almost anything. It's just not user friendly for the average user. User friendliness does not equate to more capable


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)




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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

Roadrunner emulator + me7 ECU less than $600


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Beachbuggy said:


> Roadrunner emulator + me7 ECU less than $600


hmm....Might see if that will work for my Jeep 

I'd like to see how the software is for that RR emulator. If you still have to buy winols it's not worth it


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

DMVDUB said:


> hmm....Might see if that will work for my Jeep
> 
> I'd like to see how the software is for that RR emulator. If you still have to buy winols it's not worth it


I had a custom version of tuner pro RT written that supports 8/16 bit maps.

No data trace yet, but live mapping..


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Beachbuggy said:


> I had a custom version of tuner pro RT written that supports 8/16 bit maps.
> 
> No data trace yet, but live mapping..


Live mapping...I'd love to have that.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

DMVDUB said:


> Live mapping...I'd love to have that.


Now thats a nice feature ME7 lacks of for example .


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

Only cost is ecu and road runner with me7.5 byte swap adaptor board.. available from moates. I made tuner pro RT available .


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

Beachbuggy said:


> Only cost is ecu and road runner with me7.5 byte swap adaptor board.. available from moates. I made tuner pro RT available .


Intriguing.. :beer:

Does this retain obd2 functionality? I assume it does


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## GTmustang (Nov 11, 2008)

Hey, hows it going in Cleveland, we are almost neighbors... kind of.. :thumbup: Anyway I have bought two uni tunes so far (on my GTI and TT) and have been very happy with them. Until I wanted a uni stage 2 with emissions delete and was put on a 3 month wait for my BEA. :screwy: With no updates/progress/results from them (even with phone calls into UNI direct and talking to the Uni dealer although out of his control). They don't seem to care about the 1.8t platform anymore. I eventually, after considering price points have moved onto Maestro(have not used it yet, no experience yet) 

SO my advice it to ultimately choose a company that will grow with you so you don't have to buy it twice on the same car like I did.


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

Our stage 2 tune (formerly stage 2+) is only $450, while providing more power, and features than the competition. We also only charge a $50 upgrade fee plus the price difference if you decide to upgrade to a stage 3 or BT flash in the future.

Ex. Our stage 2 flash is $450, while our BT flash is $650. It is ONLY $250 to upgrade..

For our off road users deletes are a free option as well:thumbup:

http://tunedbygts.com/software/volkswagen/mk4/18t-awp?product_id=51

You certainly get the most for your money with GTS Performance, PLUS if you purchase through me; I offer FREE 24/7 mechanical, and software tech support for as long as you use our products..

Food for thought


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## GTmustang (Nov 11, 2008)

[email protected] Performance said:


> Our stage 2 tune (formerly stage 2+) is only $450, while providing more power, and features than the competition. We also only charge a $50 upgrade fee plus the price difference if you decide to upgrade to a stage 3 or BT flash in the future.
> 
> Ex. Our stage 2 flash is $450, while our BT flash is $650. It is ONLY $250 to upgrade..
> 
> ...


I'm curious, You advertise raising the rev limiter to 7200 vs the "standard" to 6900. Can you fill me in?


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

GTmustang said:


> I'm curious, You advertise raising the rev limiter to 7200 vs the "standard" to 6900. Can you fill me in?


7500 is the safe limit. We try to stay a couple hundred below that for obvious reasons. Stock limiter is 6900 rpm


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## Dr. Stu (Jul 30, 2011)

Ah I was looking at the old site I guess. I was on gonzotuning.com not tunedbygts.com. Might wanna re-direct gonzotuning.com to tunedbygts.com. I see with the stage 2 (same as 2+ that I was looking at) that the recommended Upgrades for maximum performance are:

Turbo back exhaust
Upgraded diverter valve
Upgraded intercooler

I plan to do a 3" DP with either a 3 or 2.5 catback. I have a forge 007 DV. As for the intercooler would an upgraded side mount (ex. godspeed) suffice? Or are you taking fmic? Also what about Tip, and charge hoses (throttle body hose?). I was looking at the Autobahn88 tip and charge hoses, and early beetle/golf turbo outlet metal pipe so I can use an 034 lower silicone hose that connects up to the pancake pipe. Also would it be helpful to use fsi/tsi coil packs with the recommended NGK BKR7E gapped to .028? Just trying to get this planned out really well. It would be nice to spend a whole day or weekend just getting this setup and ready to go then adding one thing one week then one thing in a few weeks.


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## GTmustang (Nov 11, 2008)

[email protected] Performance said:


> 7500 is the safe limit. We try to stay a couple hundred below that for obvious reasons. Stock limiter is 6900 rpm



"Features

Engineered with Strict Industry Standards
Extensively Tested Under Various Driving Conditions
Factory Safety Limiters Retained
Greatest Power and Torque Gains in the Industry, Guaranteed!
Optimized Responsiveness and Drivability
Optimized Smoothness and Driving Comfort
Power Delivery Perfectly Optimized Throughout the Power Band
Improved Fuel Efficiency
Speed Governor Removed
*RPM Limiter Increased to 6900*
Cold Weather Start and Warm up Improved
Lower End Hesitation (Lag) Removed
Optimized for an Upgraded (DV) Diverter Valve or (BOV) Blow Off Valve
Ignition Timing Precisely Calibrated for Higher Octane Fuel
Precisely Calibrated for an Upgraded Exhaust System (Go Green - Use a Catalytic Converter)
Optimized for a High Flow Catalytic Converter"

http://www.unitronic-chipped.com/ecu-tuning/Audi-TT-18L-Turbo-2003-2005-225hp-stage2





Thanks for the info, That will be useful in the future.. I would think that "increased to" means they actually changed something.


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

They may have.. Stock limit might be lower. Honestly, I can't remember


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

Dr. Stu said:


> Ah I was looking at the old site I guess. I was on gonzotuning.com not tunedbygts.com. Might wanna re-direct gonzotuning.com to tunedbygts.com. I see with the stage 2 (same as 2+ that I was looking at) that the recommended Upgrades for maximum performance are:
> 
> Turbo back exhaust
> Upgraded diverter valve
> ...


*Upgraded side mount intercooler is sufficient

*3" turboback would be best (including a 3" downpipe obviously)

*BKR7E plugs are what I recommend to all of our stock frame turbo customers

*I Now recommend a maximum plug gap of .028; minimum of .022 (depends on the condition of your coils, and harness)

*The 2.0T coils are NOT an upgrade IMO; although I don't discourage their use. 

*The silicon hoses aren't really necessary, but the TIP will give you some nice gains

Anything else feel free to PM me for my number


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## ballergti (Nov 17, 2010)

[email protected] Performance said:


> 7500 is the safe limit. We try to stay a couple hundred below that for obvious reasons. Stock limiter is 6900 rpm


Anything above 7200 and you'll destroy your engine. Ask me how I know:facepalm: 1,000$ mistake but hey at least I have a fresh 70k engine now but honestly it was Huge headache. I was using no lift shift and went to about 7500 on accident and the damage was similar to the timing belt breaking at 100mph. All valves bent and killed my pistons. Holes in the middle of every piston they slapped so hard. I'm on a f21 w/ gonzo stage 2 meant for f21.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

ballergti said:


> Anything above 7200 and you'll destroy your engine. Ask me how I know:facepalm: 1,000$ mistake but hey at least I have a fresh 70k engine now but honestly it was Huge headache. I was using no lift shift and went to about 7500 on accident and the damage was similar to the timing belt breaking at 100mph. All valves bent and killed my pistons. Holes in the middle of every piston they slapped so hard. I'm on a f21 w/ gonzo stage 2 meant for f21.


I rev out to 7500 all the time. No issues. I've had people send me logs hitting 8k on stock valve train. I'm thinking you mis shifted.


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## ballergti (Nov 17, 2010)

DMVDUB said:


> I rev out to 7500 all the time. No issues. I've had people send me logs hitting 8k on stock valve train. I'm thinking you mis shifted.


This very well could've been what I did. But all I know is I floated a valve and the damage was straight nasty. When I pulled the head I was  I have a gates racing belt and it was fully intact. Honestly just got finished putting the car back together and breaking a new clutch in and am kinda scared to get on it after that experience.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

ballergti said:


> This very well could've been what I did. But all I know is I floated a valve and the damage was straight nasty. When I pulled the head I was  I have a gates racing belt and it was fully intact. Honestly just got finished putting the car back together and breaking a new clutch in and am kinda scared to get on it after that experience.


Understandable. 

Anything over 7300 is kinda risky when it comes to floating or dropping a valve (exhaust) but I think it has a lot to do with engine condition at the time and if your making a violent shift at high rpm.


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## ballergti (Nov 17, 2010)

DMVDUB said:


> Understandable.
> 
> Anything over 7300 is kinda risky when it comes to floating or dropping a valve (exhaust) but I think it has a lot to do with engine condition at the time and if your making a violent shift at high rpm.


Yeah It had 180k on it. After I installed my walbro 255 that f21 And gonzo tune got down. The power band was nothing I was really used too compared to stock turbo. I was beating up on stock sti's I have gopro footage but can't post on here because Vwvortex is against street racing.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

ballergti said:


> Yeah It had 180k on it. After I installed my walbro 255 that f21 And gonzo tune got down. The power band was nothing I was really used too compared to stock turbo. I was beating up on stock sti's I have gopro footage but can't post on here because Vwvortex is against street racing.


I believe you. My GTT setup wrecks a stage 1 or 2 STI (not sure what the difference for them is). With my "race" file you'd really be amazed what these little turbos can do. I was going to go BT after I broke my first gen GTT (test turbo, I was supposed to break it) but Gonzo gave me a new turbo free so I said 'eff it and kept with the hybrid. Toe to Toe on the highway there's not much out there that it can't at least hang with and that's really all I want out of this car. I can run with brand new 5.0's STI's 370z's and on... the new 5.0 is running the 1/4 in 13 flat and better if there's a good driver. On corn I'm willing to bet I could do better than just hang with the 5.0


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## ballergti (Nov 17, 2010)

DMVDUB said:


> I believe you. My GTT setup wrecks a stage 1 or 2 STI (not sure what the difference for them is). With my "race" file you'd really be amazed what these little turbos can do. I was going to go BT after I broke my first gen GTT (test turbo, I was supposed to break it) but Gonzo gave me a new turbo free so I said 'eff it and kept with the hybrid. Toe to Toe on the highway there's not much out there that it can't at least hang with and that's really all I want out of this car. I can run with brand new 5.0's STI's 370z's and on... the new 5.0 is running the 1/4 in 13 flat and better if there's a good driver. On corn I'm willing to bet I could do better than just hang with the 5.0


Exactly! I was gonna fork out the extra coin (actually super expensive aka maxed credit cards) and bore and stroke with a gt30 serious but said ahhh **** it and just got a 70k long block. Cleaned everything up reall nice and made sure every bolt was torqed to spec and perfect since the engine was already out and kept my hybrid setup. Honestly I don't need any more then 300Hp flywheel probably 270whp on my dd that's a fwd. Any more power is just for bragging rights. My car smashes (thanks to gonzo and Jeff for all the help!).


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

8000 is "fine" on stock valvetrain although I do not recommend going over 7500.
You need a decent sized turbo to make power above that anyways.


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