# Dissapointed New Owner with Leaks, krytox no help



## brycebaird (Oct 16, 2012)

Hello, new user, and first time poster. Took Delivery of brand new 2012 Eos Komfort on August 1. Two weeks later, during first rainstorm, had a leak at passenger side A-pillar. Thereafter, began getting leaks when taking it through the car wash. These leaks came on both sides, and leaked on the the rear armrests. Page 254 of the owners manual says there are only two acceptable ways to wash the car -- either by hand or in an automatic wash (prefferably, as i use, a touchless wash). Been to VW three times, no fix. Krytox applied. VW America has claimed that the car is operating "within specification" and thus has refused to fix it. When I ask them why i get leaks in an automatic car wash when the manual says specifically that a car wash is one of only two ways to wash it, they repeat that the car is operating within specification. When i ask what is the specification, they refuse to answer. When i ask how can they can deny my request that it be fixed if they don't have a specification, they claim that it is operating within specification. You can see where this is going. When i ask what car wash can i take it through, they refuse to answer. Essentially, their position is that if a car wash creates leakes, you can't take it through that car wash. They can't tell me any specification that i could rely on to know whether or not the car is operating "within specification"
So now I'm going to have to go through arbitration. My question is does anyone e;se have this problem? Is it unreasonable to think that I should be able to take it through a car wash as recomended by the owner's manual without the car leaking?


----------



## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

I had a problem the first time I went through an automatic car wash. After than I either wash it by hand or take it a place that does a pure hand wash. I've been very happy for 5 years now.


----------



## DavidPaul (Nov 28, 2009)

brycebaird said:


> Hello, new user, and first time poster. Took Delivery of brand new 2012 Eos Komfort on August 1. Two weeks later, during first rainstorm, had a leak at passenger side A-pillar. Thereafter, began getting leaks when taking it through the car wash. These leaks came on both sides, and leaked on the the rear armrests. Page 254 of the owners manual says there are only two acceptable ways to wash the car -- either by hand or in an automatic wash (prefferably, as i use, a touchless wash). Been to VW three times, no fix. Krytox applied. VW America has claimed that the car is operating "within specification" and thus has refused to fix it. When I ask them why i get leaks in an automatic car wash when the manual says specifically that a car wash is one of only two ways to wash it, they repeat that the car is operating within specification. When i ask what is the specification, they refuse to answer. When i ask how can they can deny my request that it be fixed if they don't have a specification, they claim that it is operating within specification. You can see where this is going. When i ask what car wash can i take it through, they refuse to answer. Essentially, their position is that if a car wash creates leakes, you can't take it through that car wash. They can't tell me any specification that i could rely on to know whether or not the car is operating "within specification"
> So now I'm going to have to go through arbitration. My question is does anyone e;se have this problem? Is it unreasonable to think that I should be able to take it through a car wash as recomended by the owner's manual without the car leaking?


A "Touchless Wash", which means a power wash, is an absolute NO, NO!!

If you stay with hand washing, you will never have a problem. No convertible, whether it is a rag or hard top, can withstand a power wash without leaking.

Of course, there are exceptions, but I am going with the odds, here. So should you.

If you are unable or unwilling to hand wash your vehicle, my advice to you is, get a sedan or settle for a dirty convertible. You are fighting a losing battle.

There may be one exception where leaking will occur regardless of what you do or what kind of car you have. It's called a HURRICANE!!


----------



## brycebaird (Oct 16, 2012)

As I understand it, prior to 2009, the cars were not recommended for going through a car wash, and there is a tech tip explaining that "water droplets" may accumulate if the seals are subjected to high pressure. As I further understand it, the seals were redesigned for the 2009 model year, and automatic car washing was allowed. 

Page 254 of the 2012 EOS manual states that you can only wash it by hand or in an automatic car wash. It further recommends a touches car wash. It further states on page 255 that you can't use a pressure washer to wash the car (or tires) I understand a pressure washer to be a handheld wand, either electric or gas powered, or the type of wands you find at a do-it-yourself car wash. Given that the manual recommends a "touchless" wash, and given that, to my knowledge, every touches wash uses pressurized water, I don't feel it is out of bounds to have a car that can be taken through a car wash without significant leaking. For what it is worth, I have been able to replicate the leaks using an unpressurized garden hose. I worry that if the car is leaking two months into its life, it will never stop leaking.

We all get our cars for different reasons, and have different expectations and different standards, I get that. I neither want to hold VW to an impossible standard, nor do I want to accept or appologize for any legitimate defect. I am not going to take a powerwasher to my car and expect it not to leak--it says right in the manual not to do it. But I do want to take the car through a touchless wash, just like the manual recommends, and not have it leak. Back in the day I was able to take my 92 geo metro convertible through carwashes without leaks, and I feel like I should be able to take this car through too. I don't think I should have to choose a hardtop simply because the car doesnt do what the manual says it can do. Moreover, VW has failed to identify any standard so that I may know what car wash it is acceptable to bring the car through.


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 7, 2009)

Hi Brycebaird,

You have some choices here:

1. Accept that VW can't fix the EOS so that it can be washed except by hand.
2. Go through arbitration with the hope that you come out on the other side whole except for the time put into arbitration.

Hint: I searched the forum, very few leak complaints and even fewer related to car washes. If it makes you that unhappy move on.


----------



## kratedisease (Aug 15, 2010)

*Make sure the front drain tubes are not pinched*

I also had problematic leakage issues. The Krytox does nothing if your seals are NOT pinched. The biggest engineering issues is that the sunroof tends to allow water to get into the roof rails and frame, but there are catches (like a house roof rain gutter) all around to catch and drain any water that gets in down drian tubes. BUT if your drain tubes are pinched opr aqueezed by some moldings ( located in the a pillars of the windshield), then water will back up and start dripping into the cabin. You also have rear drain tubes but they do not drain large amounts of water since the sunroof is designed to drain into the front and the sunroof lets in the most water evem though it is completely closed. Use a funnel and pour water into the drain holes located in the A pillars to see if they are draining properly and more importantly draining quickly.. If not then your drain tubes are clogged ( usually not the care with a new car) or pinched inside the a pillar. 

Remember.... water will always get into the roof frame in a heavy rain BUT the drain tubes ( if clear) can easily drain out any water very quicly so no water leaks into the cabin. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## brycebaird (Oct 16, 2012)

*Still leaking, now with rain or snow melt!*

VW continues to not stand by the manual that specifically states there are only two ways to wash the top, in an automatic car wash or by hand. They admit that there is no specification stating how much pressure can be exerted before a leak is "permissible" in their eyes. They simply state that if water leaks from a car wash, the car wash uses too much pressure. I've contacted the car wash, and learned that they don't add any pressure to the water -- just the pressure that comes from the municipal water supply.

Now the car leaks in rain or snow melt. They krytoxed, then replaced a seal, but still no success. Took it to another dealer (at VW america's suggestion) that refused to build the water testing device (literally a Home Depot Shower Head attached to a hose). Only after contacting dealership owner did the passive-aggressive service manager build it. (Three weeks of reasons why he couldnt build it, and then all of the sudden, built in two hours!!)

Still leaks, even with the tiny three inch shower head sprinkling a mist of water over a three inch diameter spot on the roof. Now I have to wait an additional three weeks for the super-duper-travelling tech to look at it and then not fix it.

I have tried over and over to return the car to VW -- but they, being smarter than I am, will have no part of it -- the last thing they want back is one of the 5,600 Eos's they sold last year. And now the head design guy has announced how happy he is to see the hard top convertible be discontinued at VW and throughout the industry.

The posters above are right -- i am fighting a losing battle, and i'll likely never be happy with the car. I just don't know why I should bear the depreciation for a car that doesn't perform as it is suppossed to.


----------



## BostonB6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I know there is a TSB out there that indicates some leakage is considered normal. Really disappointing if you have one that leaks. I've been very fortunate with mine. Hopefully super tech can fix.


----------



## DZD (Mar 25, 2007)

Two thoughts:

1 - It's 2013 - any car, convertible or not, should not leak in the rain or a car wash - period!

2 - I wonder if you can take your car to the dealer, have them let you take a different new EOS - take it through the same car wash - if it doesn't leak - ask them to fix yours to match or give you a different one.

I admit though - I still like these cars. Good luck!


----------



## pafox (Aug 16, 2001)

*Leak*

I recently purchased a CPO '07...after driving it home (purchased in RI) I discovered a small leak on drivers side and a smaller one on pass side...I brought it in and VW(Atlantic on LI) replaced the main header seal..took it home..rain...still had leaks..brought it back and this time they replaced both door seals... All covered under warranty:thumbup:


----------



## Kostaspato21 (Feb 23, 2012)

A couple of drops and some seapage in heavy rainstorms is acceptable by Vw specs as for car washes I belove the spec is nothing more than 2500 psi wich most power washes operate at greater pressures than that just hand wash it and keep it in the garage for heavynrain storms


----------



## Kostaspato21 (Feb 23, 2012)

DZD said:


> Two thoughts:
> 
> 1 - It's 2013 - any car, convertible or not, should not leak in the rain or a car wash - period!
> 
> ...



Not true most convertibles seals have this problem due to the softer seals needed for the top to flex


----------



## Midwesterner (Sep 9, 2003)

Same issue with my better half's car. She only uses certain car washes now or I have to hand wash it myself. :banghead:


----------



## BeechSierra (Jan 29, 2005)

Maybe this can be of some help.....
We just purchased a 2008 Komfort 2.0 TFSI Eos. It is a fun car. We, too, had the leaks at the A pillar on both sides. Using the great information posted here I was able to gain access to the tube and collar and make repairs. Here is how I did it:

The A pillar trim is actually two pieces. There is a top corner piece and a longer piece that runs the length of the pillar (the one with the vent opening in it). Begin by pulling the top corner piece down and slightly inward. Pull firmly but carefully....it _will _move!









As the corner trim comes down the seam between the corner trim and length-wise trim will become obvious. Just keep working the two pieces downward to get room to access the tube. 

When you can see and access the tube you can work the plastic collar off its mounting point. Note the plastic tube in held by a clip but it will release the tube fairly easily. Once you have the tube out of the clip and collar loose from its mount just carefully pull the tube and collar out so you can work with it.









On my car, the tube was clearly NOT in full contact with the collar creating gaps that allowed the water to leak. But, the tube would not pull free of the collar and I did not force it. My solution was to put a cable tie around the collar.....no glue, no tape, no hot wax, just the cable tie. It seems to have worked. I washed the car after doing this to both sides and no leaks! I'll give a follow-up report down the road but it seems to have done the trick!









I hope this helps!

Here's another great posting about this subject:
http://www.vweosclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7602&highlight=drain


----------



## voxmagna (Nov 17, 2009)

*EOS and Carwash*

I agree - if you own an EOS hand wash it. However, a car wash can be a good way to find roof seal leaks, even though it can be a little aggressive. I have my own method called 'River of Water'. That is a whole bucket of water dumped in the center of the roof washing off the rear if the car is on a slope one way, then turn the car around and repeat, letting the river of water run off the front. You can't be a scaredy cat about doing this. If there is a seal leak you need to know where it is and do something about it. Water leaking and staying inside the cabin is a really bad thing. Incidentally, there is a lot of talk about EOS drains. the drains are only there as a last resort or if you happen to like driving in rain with the sunroof open. If you have water entering and leaving the front/rear drains, then you have a seal leak to find and fix.

if you take some thin paper and trap it in a seal, you should be able to move it all around and feel tension. If you don't, start Krytoxing and massaging the seals until you get tension on the paper. Repeat for all the seals including the long seal at the rear keeping water out of the trunk. A weak area is the two front corners of the sun roof. The seal passing around the corner can work away on the back flange. Gently pull it forwards slightly, Krytox and massage. Check afterwards for seal to seal contact friction with thin paper.


----------

