# Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

It is easy to find subjective opinions about brake pad performance, but often difficult
to find hard data. This post collects hard data on popular brake pads - much of which
has been gleaned from other vwvortex posters.
The friction coefficient is directly proportional to pad grippiness and brake torque.
The max operating temperature is directly related to fade resistance which is an
important factor in choosing a brake pad as well.
Performance categories are organized by friction coefficient and serve as a guide
only - some pads may fit into multiple categories. If you have questions about a
particular pad, it is always best to get a data sheet directly from the manufacturer
to ensure that the latest formulation meets your particular needs.
Please post any corrections or additional data
More brake FAQ material here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2357867

OEM-level Performance
# examples: OEM MkIV pads, Mintex Redbox, Hawk Ceramic
# cF=0.30-0.40
# max temp before fade: 600-700°F (Hawk Ceramic is a little higher on cF, redbox is lower on both cF & fade)
# street use only

Performance Enthusiast/Light Autocross
# examples: Hawk HPS, EBC Greenstuff, EBC Redstuff, Porterfield R4-S, Axxis Ultimate
# cF=0.41-0.45 (EBC pads have higher cF, Greenstuff has poor performance on heavier cars
# max temp before fade: 700-900°F (some pads may be rated higher)
# light auto-cross and performance street use

Autocross/Light Track Pad/HPDE
# examples: Hawk HP+, Carbotech Bobcat, Ferodo DS-2000, EBC Yellowstuff
# cF=0.46-0.49
# max temp before fade: 900-1100°F
# light track days, auto-cross, and performance street use

Track Pad/HPDE
# examples: Ferodo DS-2500, Carbotech Panther Plus, Mintex C-tech 1155
# cF=0.50-0.55
# max temp before fade: 1100-1300°F
# track days and high-performance street use

Race Pad
# examples: Ferodo DS-3000, Hawk Blue 9012, Hawk Black, EBC Bluestuff, Porterfield R4
# cF=0.56-0.68 (depends on specific race application)
# max temp before fade: 1300°F+ (depends on specific race application)
# track use only
By Manufacturer:
# Pagid pads
# Ferodo pads
# Carbotech pads
# Cobalt Friction pads
# Hawk
# http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive.html
# http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/pads.html


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## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (phatvw)*

Thanks! Just what I have been searching for!
May just answer the question I had posed here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1740561
Looking to use a "tuffer" pad in front than in the rear for a street driven autocrosser.








Maybe Ferado DS-2000 in front and Hawk HPS in the rear. Still should be minimal dust, right?
Thanks.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (keycom)*

Sure, that might be a good auto-x combo. I use DS-2500 in front and HPS in the rear which is awesome for the track!
Dust with the HPS pads isn't too bad and easy to wipe off. DS-2500 is a lot dustier. I'm not sure about DS-2000 but its probably somewhere in between.
I don't know if this will bump you to stx auto-x class or not, but if you're looking for better pedal feel, consider the tyrolsport bushing upgrade. It is just replacing the rubber caliper pin bushings with brass inserts to make the pedal feel more consistent and even out the pad wear.Highly recommended!


_Modified by phatvw at 3:36 PM 12-20-2004_


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## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (phatvw)*

Yes, the Tyrolsport upgrade is on my list as well as SS lines and ATE Super Blue.
I believe this combo can get me autocross performance that is on par with those who have spent thousands more.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (keycom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *keycom* »_
I believe this combo can get me autocross performance that is on par with those who have spent thousands more.

Totally! The only real advantage of those expensive kits is weight savings. But is that much cash worth the investment, or can you spend that money improving elsewhere?


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## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (phatvw)*

Can anyone come up with the info on PBR's?
I've searched their website and several vendors, but no luck with technical info.
The price is certainly competitive.


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (keycom)*

If your talking about PBR ceramics, i have just put those on my car a few weeks ago. I have the tyrol sport caliper stiffening kit, as well as fresh fluid. They are by no means a performance pad. They have very nice confident cold bite, similar to stock.....however its been a long time since i had stock pads. They do fade pretty easily, under very moderate canyon carving. The fit and finish of them is really good, and they come w/ wear sensors. Brake dust i cant really tell b/c i have on 15" steelies w/ hubcaps, and i'm not one to care about brake dust anyway. THese pads BLOW AWAY mintex redbox if you were comparing the two. THen again i think the stock pads blow away redbox


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## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (Banditt007)*

Thanks Banditt007.
Here some info on EBC's from the Tire Rack
Greenstuff cF=.46
1000 degrees
Redstuff cF=.30-.33
1380 degrees
This might make a good front/rear combo as well.


_Modified by keycom at 4:00 PM 12-21-2004_


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## NOVAdub (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (keycom)*

I thought that the EBC red was a step up from the EBC green? (At least thats what the advertising suggests)


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (NOVAdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOVAdub* »_I thought that the EBC red was a step up from the EBC green? (At least thats what the advertising suggests)

It looks like the redstuff has a higher fade resistance, but lower cF. This would probably make them suitable for a rear brake application for track use. I may have to re-think the categories because these pads do not fit nicely into any of them.
Do you think it would be better to just have a big list of pads or are the summary categories helpful?


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## JoeVeeDubber (Mar 15, 2002)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (phatvw)*

I know this list was made with commonly available pads, but I currently use Pagid RS4-2 "Blue" pads in the front with my Brembo BBK and Porterfield R4 race pads in the rear. This setup works well for me on the track and I drive it with these pads on the street also for now. I don't know of the CF for the Pagid Blue's or the temp rating off hand, but I do recall findind a site that had info about them before. I may consider getting some Porterfield R4S pads all around for the street, but at 169 a pop for the fronts and 129 for the rears they aren't cheap!
Edit: found a link to a chart with good data about pagid pads:
http://www.needforspeed.co.uk/...3.htm

_Modified by JoeVeeDubber at 8:57 PM 12-27-2004_


_Modified by JoeVeeDubber at 9:01 PM 12-27-2004_


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## bmxp (Aug 10, 2003)

I got Wilwood Dynalite II's that have Porterfield R4s in the front and what would go good in the rear?


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## JoeVeeDubber (Mar 15, 2002)

*Re: (bmxp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bmxp* »_I got Wilwood Dynalite II's that have Porterfield R4s in the front and what would go good in the rear?

Which ones do you have? R4 race pad or R4S street pad?
I would recommend R4S street/autox/light track pad for the rear.


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## JoeVeeDubber (Mar 15, 2002)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Do you think it would be better to just have a big list of pads or are the summary categories helpful?

I'm thinking a big list of pads with their specs and then giving a little explanation as to what the specs mean and what certain specs would be good for.


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## bmxp (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: (JoeVeeDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JoeVeeDubber* »_Which ones do you have? R4 race pad or R4S street pad?
I would recommend R4S street/autox/light track pad for the rear. 

I have the R4-S street pads front and stock rear right now....


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## JoeVeeDubber (Mar 15, 2002)

*Re: (bmxp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bmxp* »_
I have the R4-S street pads front and stock rear right now....

For daily driving and maybe even autox you are fine with the stock rear pads, but if you track your car and want some more bite in the rear to help the car squat under heavy braking a pad with a higher cf would be good, Hawk HPS, Porterfield R4S, PBR Ceramics, all would fit into this category, but the least dusty of all them is as you know, the R4S.


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## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

Cobalt Friction has excellent pads, also. Unfortunately they are not well-known in the VW world. However, most of the Honda Challenge guys and a lot of Audi guys use them, as well as many other racing teams. According to Cobalt's charts and specs, they're as good or better than most other pads out there. I've used Cobalt Spec VR for my fronts with awesome results at HPDEs. 








Spec VRt:
Coefficient of Friction: 0.66m
Temperature Range: 350-1800F
Spec VR:
Coefficient of Friction: 0.64m
Temperature Range: 350-1550F
Spec VRe:
Coefficient of Friction: 0.62m
Temperature Range: 350-1650F
GT-Sport (street pads):
Coefficient of Friction: 0.48m
Temperature Range: 75-950F
More info found here.


_Modified by genxguy at 11:14 AM 1-4-2005_


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## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

*Re: (genxguy)*

Carbotech 
Carbotech pads


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## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: (genxguy)*

bump


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## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (keycom)*

Bump for fantastic thread.


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## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: (dcomiskey)*

good stuff bump


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## Project-GLI (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (phatvw)*

BUMP!!!
Everyone should read this.....great stuff!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

*Axxis Ultimate*

Axxis Ultimate
Coefficient of Friction (Mu) : 0.46
Optimal Operating Range : 100F-900F
Critical Fade Temp : 1000F
Had these on my car (GTI 337) front and rear for about half a year. As street pads, they're ok. Initial braking bite is good, pedal feel decent. Heavy rain is not good, first 1/2sec feels like there's no pads, then it slowly bites. You almost have to pump the brakes to get the water off the pads. 
Attended one HPDE event with them when I forgot to take my track pads. Bad idea. Pads overheated and faded by end of each 20min session. Fade was predictable in the beginning, but by end of 2-day event, got unpredictable. Good initial bite stayed consistent throughout, tho. Longevity was good, didn't wear down much during the event.
Probably fits in 'Performance Enthusiast' category above. Better grip than stock or Mintex Red, but not as good as Cobalt GT-Sport or Hawk HP+. Decent choice for beginners on track or someone on a budget ($110 for both fr and rr sets). Lot of dust, whether street or track driving. Easy on rotors.


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## vdubjb (Feb 18, 2000)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (phatvw)*

why isnt this a sticky?


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## TXBDan (Dec 29, 2002)

its a Cobolt chart showing Cobolts the best, surprise!


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## g60_corrado_91 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (TXBDan)*

Are PBR and AXXIS the same company? I need to get some new front pads. I have the AXXIS Metal Masters in the back, but the fronts are some cheap company I don't even know of. All I know is that I have brake fade from like one stop from 60. I do a lot of stop and go driving and some highway driving. I want a performace pad and would rather have some dust than lack of performance. I want a pad that I can stop from 60 and above to 0 without too much fade. I was looking at either the Metal Masters or the Ultimate. I just got a price quote for the Ferodo DS2500's, which is a lot more than the $35-40 I can get the PBR's for. Any opinions? Thanks.


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## g60_corrado_91 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (g60_corrado_91)*

Bump for my questions. Thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: (g60_corrado_91)*

axiss and pbr are the same company. and sell the same pads named different. for example the PBR ultimate ceramics are the same pad as the axiss ultimates.
my previous statment about the PBR's (begginging of the thread) as true for the first few thousand miles on those pads. now they take a good beating on the street and do not fade, but the first 5-8k miles they seemed to fade after one hard stop from 80mph VERY STRANGE! 
now that its been from 10k miles on them and more they are consistant in how they operate.
-squeel about 30% of the time (havent dont ANYTHING to try to stop it though)
-dust is moderate to heavy
-bad heavy rain braking like the other guy said above me.
-seem to wear great
-hard to modulate from light to light/medium braking
-very grabby initially, alot less pedal travel/effort is needed than other pads i've had
-they clank around like all hell in the carriers, sounds like loose bolts on my car. i've had the same problem w/ ferrodo ds2500's as well. i think my caliper carriers are 'stretched' almost a bit and fit the pads poor. initially the PBR's fit great but now i feel that the backing plates allow them to sit too loose in the carrier, again it could be just my car cause i've had that problem w/ every other pad i've used after the stock ones gave out.
i would reccomend the ultimate ceramics for someone who really is looking for less pedal effort/grabby pad right from the first cold braking.
again it was very strange, i bedded in the ceramics when new, and after one stop from 80mph the next stop from 30mph down to zero again needed a good deal more pedal effort ect, strange given their specs.
This was consistant like i said for a long time, then magically it seemed it stoped and seem to be true to their specs, i gave them a 10 minute hardcore beating on the street (prob about 3 min away or less from getting them to glow) and they performed great








so for that i dont reccomend them b/c of their strange properties.
g60_corrado_91..... if your brakes are fading after one stop from 60mph it sounds like your brake fluid is really shot or you have really thin rotors, or REALLY crappy pads on there. or any combo of the above
B/c bone stock brakes should never fade at all after one stop from 60mph. in my expereince at least, even on max performance summer tires.
Brakes should be bled every 2 years or less...


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## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: (Banditt007)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banditt007* »_
-bad heavy rain braking like the other guy said above me.
-seem to wear great
-hard to modulate from light to light/medium braking
-very grabby initially, alot less pedal travel/effort is needed than other pads i've had
i would reccomend the ultimate ceramics for someone who really is looking for less pedal effort/grabby pad right from the first cold braking.


I wish I could come test drive your car and feel what your brakes are like. I'm tired of testing out pads and not liking them. Or destroying them.


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## g60_corrado_91 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (Banditt007)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banditt007* »_g60_corrado_91..... if your brakes are fading after one stop from 60mph it sounds like your brake fluid is really shot or you have really thin rotors, or REALLY crappy pads on there. or any combo of the above
B/c bone stock brakes should never fade at all after one stop from 60mph. in my expereince at least, even on max performance summer tires.
Brakes should be bled every 2 years or less...

Yeah, I didn't bled the brakes when I replaced them. No, they are not OEM brake rotors, which probably makes it even worse. They are drilled/slotted Brembo rotors with the Metal Masters in the rear and the cheap ones in the front. I was thinking of trying the Hawk HPS's for the front. Pricey, but pretty good from what I've read already. They do seem to squeak for most people though. What brake fluid would you recommend for me to bleed them with?


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: (g60_corrado_91)*

i never had a problem w/ valvoline syntec dot 3+4 brake fluid. local, cheap, large containers ect.
If you want to order a more race type fluid online get the ATE Type 200


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## jasontrb (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (keycom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *keycom* »_Thanks Banditt007.
Here some info on EBC's from the Tire Rack
Greenstuff cF=.46
1000 degrees
Redstuff cF=.30-.33
1380 degrees
This might make a good front/rear combo as well.

_Modified by keycom at 4:00 PM 12-21-2004_

According to EBC Web site,
Greenstuff cf= 0.55
Redstuff cf= 0.5
And a step up from red is the new yellowstuff, cf= 0.6


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## Turbozo (Nov 17, 2005)

*PAGID*

*PAGID RACE PADS*
*RS4-2 BLUE (Carbon-based)* The most popular material (known as 'Pagid Blue'), RS4-2 gives a good low temperature response. It is very stable with superior modulation and feel. RS4-2 has a medium co-efficient of friction with good pad and disc life. Suitable for many applications especially gravel rally and wet tarmac, where control is needed. 
*Cold 100ºC 300ºC Max Working Max*
0.4 0.42 0.46 0.49 350-600ºC 650ºC
*RS4-2-1 BLACK (Carbon-based)* A very stable material with low disc wear. It has a wide operating range with good low temperature performance and low brake noise. Fitted as original equipment on many high performance road vehicles, this is the best all round pad for road use. 
*Cold 100ºC 300ºC Max Working Max*
0.36 0.38 0.42 0.45 300-500ºC 550ºC
*RS4-4 ORANGE (Carbon-based)* This material has a high friction level especially at high temperature. It is better for high temperature applications than RS4-2 and has a very stable torque pattern. Suitable for rear axle use on Touring Car applications and very popular in Porsche racing.
*Cold 100ºC 300ºC Max Working Max*
0.39 0.4 0.48 0.53 350-650ºC 700ºC
*RS-7 BLACK (Carbon-based)* A material developed for use on rear axle of front wheel drive circuit racing cars with low rear axle weight. Lower friction levels help to reduce rear wheel lock.
*Cold 100ºC 300ºC Max Working Max*
0.32 0.33 0.35 0.37	300-550ºC 550ºC
*RS-14 BLACK (Ceramic-based)* A high friction, high temperature material with enviable pad life at this level of friction. Very kind to discs, easily modulated and resistant to wheel lock in extreme use. Suitable for Touring Car, WRC, GT and other forms of medium weight single seater race cars that have good levels of grip.
*Cold 100ºC 300ºC Max Working Max*
0.44 0.47 0.49 0.54	400-700ºC 800ºC
*RS-15 GREY (Ceramic-based)* The newest material, a development of RS-14 which combines a 20 percent higher friction level with an improved initial bite. RS-15 has a very good life and exceptional release characteristics. It is also very easily bedded in comparison to it's competitors. Suitable for Touring Car, GT and other applications requiring very high levels of friction and high temperature stability.
*Cold 100ºC 300ºC Max Working Max*
0.50 0.54 0.57 0.62	400-800ºC 900ºC
*RS-19 YELLOW (Ceramic-based)* This material provides very good performance at all temperatures with immediate brake response. Very stable pad on ceramic base, with excellent fade resistance and low disc wear. Suitable for endurance racing or applications where exceptional life is required. 
*Cold 100ºC 300ºC Max Working Max*
0.4 0.43 0.47 0.49	400-700ºC 750ºC




_Modified by Turbozo at 10:31 AM 5-2-2006_


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## Turbozo (Nov 17, 2005)

Don't know how accurate this is but it looks like good info:


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## meaculpa20v (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (phatvw)*

It would be nice to see a list of the pads under street friendly and not. I wonder which ones are street friendly. DS2500 kinda are, HPS's are. and so on. 
Eric


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (meaculpa20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *meaculpa20v* »_It would be nice to see a list of the pads under street friendly and not. I wonder which ones are street friendly. DS2500 kinda are, HPS's are. and so on. 
Eric

"Street friendly" is misleading because it is subjective. I would argue that anything not advertiesed as "Race only" is... well, technically street friendly. Some pads are obviously friendlier than others. For example DS2500 dust a lot so some folks would say that makes them a no-no for the street, but they are great in every other category. Hawk HP+ are noisy as hell so that would make it a no-no for the street, but again great in every other category. Its going to end up being a personal choice.
We could, however, expand the list to include anecdotal evidence about each pad compound. The categories might be:
Streetability factors:
dust (quantity, colour, easy to wipe off?)
noise (squeaks at mild pedal pressure vs constant grinding under 30mph)
cold brake bite
braking feel/linearity at light pedal pressures
Performance factors:
braking feel/linearity at heavy pedal pressures
operating temperature brake bite
fade resistance after repeated braking events on race track or spirited driving
suitability for front vs rear axle



_Modified by phatvw at 12:44 PM 9-15-2006_


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## HilF (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (phatvw)*

So i went out to the track (HPDE) over the weekend in my mkIII golf VR6. The current setup is *porterfield r4-s* all around with cross-drilled (the little holes version) stock sized rotors. tires are 195/50/15 toyo t1-r.
I wanted to bring them down, so i tried to be as hard on my brakes as possible for a couple laps but didn't manage to break them. 
The hardest part on the brakes was after coming down the straightaway (~120mph), doing a long sweeping left turn and going WOT before braking for turn 3a (~30). I might have felt a touch of fade there, but nothing to wet one's pants about.
Overall, i am please at how these held up. Granted, this was my first track day.









Streetability factors:
*dust (quantity, colour, easy to wipe off?)* low dust, less grey than stock, easy to wipe off, sticky on the skin. almost less dust at higher speeds!? - wind?
*noise (squeaks at mild pedal pressure vs constant grinding under 30mph)* quiet for daily driving. squeaks a little at mild pressure after flogging on them.
*cold brake bite* great. not super touchy though in an emergency brake or quick jab, they will bite and throw you foward.
*braking feel/linearity at light pedal pressures* very linear bite
Performance factors:
*braking feel/linearity at heavy pedal pressures* very linear
*operating temperature brake bite* might get a bit more sticky at higher heat.
*fade resistance after repeated braking events on race track or spirited driving* held up very well on the track, never faded on street even after redoing a bed-in procedure.
*suitability for front vs rear axle* n/a



_Modified by white_r!ce at 5:12 PM 3-12-2008_


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## IJM (Jul 30, 2001)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (white_r!ce)*

Not to rain on your parade, but keep an eye on those cross-drilled rotors when using them at the track. They're really not designed to take that kind of heat.
Here's an example of what can happen after one session (not mine):


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## HilF (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: Brake pad performance: Friction coefficient & operating temperature LIST (IJM)*

so i've read a million times.
fwiw, the holes in mine are *a lot* smaller. 
when i'm done with these pads or rotors, i'll be swapping back to plain.


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## redfox1776 (Oct 3, 2004)

*Brake pad wear sensors*

Just bought a set of replacement brake pads and then found out that my 2000 Jetta GLS VR6 has front pad wear sensors, but the new pads don't have connections for them. Result: yellow "front pad wear" warning light is permanently ON. Dealer said they know of no cap or cure for this, other than replacing pads again, so I recommend finding out more about this before you buy.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: Brake pad wear sensors (redfox1776)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redfox1776* »_Just bought a set of replacement brake pads and then found out that my 2000 Jetta GLS VR6 has front pad wear sensors, but the new pads don't have connections for them. Result: yellow "front pad wear" warning light is permanently ON. Dealer said they know of no cap or cure for this, other than replacing pads again, so I recommend finding out more about this before you buy.

If you look at the FAQ you'll find 2 distinct solutions to this problem:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2246459
No need for wear sensors on your pads since some cars come without them from the factory. Also, you have 8 brake pads, and only 1 sensor - so whats the use? What if one of the other 7 pads wears out first? Then you're SOL if you rely solely on the sensor!!!!!!



_Modified by phatvw at 8:37 AM 4-21-2008_


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## greyhare (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: Brake pad wear sensors (phatvw)*

Some good information from AP Racing:
http://www.apracing.com/info/i..._2858
http://www.apracing.com/info/i...s_105


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## Anomious (Apr 23, 2008)

Are Akebono, Euro, ceramic pads any good?

Tire rack sells them. Thanks!! LK


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