# So Just Once Lets do something different - MK3 NA 20V ITBS 06X Lugtronic Content



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Finally car is almost finished so figured it was time to share. I wanted to build something different after destroying my turbo car. Reused a handful of things and was able to sell alot of the turbo stuff to fund this project. Big thanks to Caste Systems Performance for helping me build the car, Lugtronic, and all my friends who helped along the way. We were able to bang out a [email protected] at the track still working out the best setup. Will be dynoing soon. Here are the engine specs:

Wossner 82.7mm 12.3:1 Pistons
Scat connecting rods
FSI Crank
Forcefed Engineering Crank Modification
AEB head, Supertech exhaust valves
Cat Gold springs, Rosten retainers
Cat 3652 camshafts
48mm Throttle Bodies w/ Custom Manifold
Techtonics Tuning 4 to 1 Header (Then modified to 3" out)
Custom ABF Alternator Bracket
Quaife Gears w/Peloquin LSD
Clutchmasters FX700 Twin Disc Clutch
DSS Stage 3 Axles
Lugtronic Wire In ECU with Custom Harness with Bulkhead and lots of Data sensors
Injector Dynamics ID 1000cc fuel injectors
Bosch 044 Fuel Pump
FuelLab Pre and Post Filters and FPR
Full 3" Aluminum Exhaust
E85 Fuel

Engine Bay with Temporary catch Can
















Velocity Stacks








Car in street trim








Motor before it went in








Somewhere during the build process








Modified 06X accessory bracket with ABF alternator








Header fitment








Modifed to 3" 2 1/4 just wasnt going to cut it.


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## 02vwgolf (Oct 6, 2009)

Awesome build, would love to hear how she sounds:thumbup:


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

It's good to see this one coming together. :thumbup:


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

that work area is a mess:heart:


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

You forgot to mention the sweet steelies. eace:


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

oh yeah nice BNO reference in the title


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

niceeeee! love this. Keep up the work!


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Really dig this :thumbup:


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

thanks. hoping to get back out to the track. if it ever stops raining.


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## FLATBLACKMK2 (Oct 10, 2003)

:thumbup::beer:opcorn:
Jay Fay


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## root beer (Jun 22, 2004)

What's she weighing in at?

Looks like you fixed the heat.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

2150. Still some weight to lose. 
What do you mean fix the heat?


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## root beer (Jun 22, 2004)

Hail mary at a joke off that old Howarth video. I'm not used to seeing a mk3 bay with heater core hoses! 

Car's awesome man :thumbup:


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Heat is one of those things that is nice to have. The AC part is removed. Hoping to get back to track if it ever stops raining.


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

Ben doesn't have enough insulation to go without heat.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Def not. Also ask Todd how it was racing without defrost


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

World Cup Finals is definately a good place to have heat in the car, lol.


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## masterqaz (Oct 5, 2007)

turbodub said:


> oh yeah nice BNO reference in the title


And I thought I'd be the only one to get this. They started here in Oakville. I see dave at the bar all the time.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Good ****. I used to see them all the time when they'd come to NJ. I was actually up there for their reunion show a few years ago.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Was able to bang out a 12.75 @ 105 at the track. Pretty happy with the thing. Hoping someone took video.


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XImeICseAkw&feature=player_embedded


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Thanks mark. I found one other on YouTube I will link later


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

I thought I was recording but all I did was take a picture. still getting used to this new phone lol:banghead:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Nicely done.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Thanks. Gonna keep working at it and hope to get the rest of you NA guys excited to race again.


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## harlequin80 (Aug 28, 2011)

Im building the same motor for my mk3 right now. Can you give me some info on the ITB setup?


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

It is an ADR lower manifold mated to a flange from zornig. The flange is for Toyota ae111 or ae101 throttle bodies. The manifold was modified to get the proper angle. Velocity stacks from techno toy tuning. There are other lengths available but not easily in US and ITG filter with custom made plate. Custom made fuel rail and brackets. Custom made vacuum manifold.


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## harlequin80 (Aug 28, 2011)

What would it cost to have one made? I was going BT 1.8T but decided I would rather spend the extra $4k on paint and body so I can have the car finished sooner.

I have the AEB head already and will have an aba block soon. I had one that I sold or else Id be on my way :banghead:


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Not sure. Some of the companies make Itbs for 20v and it is about the same by the time you add it all up


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## harlequin80 (Aug 28, 2011)

Ive been looking but can't find any.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Extrudabody. Twm induction might have something. Badger might also. Maybe a few others I am forgetting.


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Hope you don't mind me adding more info in this thread. I also used an ADR manifold, then used 750 GSXR bike ITBs. With some all thread rod, nuts and/or washers spaced out for correct manifold spacing, and these were also the correct diameter for the ADR couplers.










Keep it up Bonesaw, love what you are doing. :thumbup:


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Do you have any problem with the small throw using motorcycle throttle bodies? We have a car at the shop with extrudabodies and the pedal goes from idle to WOT in a really short distance. With the AE111 it has a more normal feel to it because they were designed for a car. I've heard that OBX makes knock offs of the Toyota throttle bodies for a honda. Someone should give them a whirl.


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

That was probably back in 2008 and it was only ITB'd for one summer. So recalling, it didn't seem short, but guessing shorter than a stock cable throw. The cable was actually a bike shifter cable to make it all work correctly. I'm sure there are better options out there that are more fit for automotive use, just wanted to throw that info out there as it's a cheap option. We all know that's not always the best choice though. The car ran great at WOT but was fairly touchy at partial throttle, which is probably part of the shorter throw you were asking about. Hope that clears it up a bit.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

For the bike throttles they are touchy unless you put on a progressive throttle cam from a stock tb or make a larger std one.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Ran a new personal best today at Fall show and go. 12.58 @ 106.87. It was the exact same setup as my 12.75 @ Waterfest. Same E70 gas that i bought in april. Really happy with the car. Developed another trans problem but will get it all sorted out and back to the track.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

need_a_VR6 said:


> For the bike throttles they are touchy unless you put on a progressive throttle cam from a stock tb or make a larger std one.


 When we were running our GTL Scirocco with GSXR ITBs we just made a larger cam. It was actually pretty easy.


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## harlequin80 (Aug 28, 2011)

Just picked up and stripped my obd1 ABA block. Time to get on it. Mind if I bother you with questions?


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

ask away.


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

bonesaw said:


> Ran a new personal best today at Fall show and go. 12.58 @ 106.87. QUOTE]
> 
> Awesome Ben! Let's put some real fuel in that thing and see what it will do in good air on a good track. :thumbup::thumbup:


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

You mean this 6 month old e70 isn't helping? Lol


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)




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## docterelliott (Sep 29, 2007)

how are you weighing in at 2150? my mk2 golf weighed in at 2360:screwy:


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

The driver weighs about 80 pounds.  :heart: you Ben!


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

I weigh 145. Car weighs 2110. I'd like to get some more weight out of it but don't really want to give up heat. Nothing is cut just removed unneeded weight.


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## docterelliott (Sep 29, 2007)

what all did you take out to drop that much weight? i thought mk3 gti's weighd at least 2600 pounds.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Rebars door bars. Seats. Undercoating. Alum exhaust. Still has dash and heat. No cutting. 2110 is with just stock driver seat. 2150 with 2 stock seats. Still got some more weight to take out.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

My mk3 in street trim (front half interior) w vr6 was 2450 w me at a solid 200lbs. Hes right where he should be. Getting to a class legal 2150 is going to take more work.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

4 cyl is 1900lbs. I don't see how that is ever happening. Let alone the car being competitive without throwing a lot of money at it.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Not without cutting. Maybe with no dash and lexan, which would be legal. The only reason to run a 6cyl is for ballast.


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

your going to get bored and start replacing glass with plastic lol.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

When I get bored ill slap a turbo on it. Lol.


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

bonesaw said:


> When I get bored ill slap a turbo on it. Lol.


No test rides.


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## typeSLone (Feb 8, 2002)

bonesaw said:


> I weigh 145


I'm 160, there is no way I am only 15lbs heavier than you.


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## typeSLone (Feb 8, 2002)

bonesaw said:


> When I get bored ill slap a turbo on it. Lol.





Mark Morris said:


> No test rides.


No test rides unless its on a completely straight road in broad day light with no woods around it.


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

typeSLone said:


> I'm 160, there is no way I am only 15lbs heavier than you.


Ben is taking into account his lead shoes.


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

typeSLone said:


> No test rides unless its on a completely straight road in broad day light with no woods around it.


Even then I would have flashbacks.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

No pass seat so no problem.


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## typeSLone (Feb 8, 2002)

Mark Morris said:


> Ben is taking into account his lead shoes.


I'm still shocked they make vans in a size 14.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

13 haha. And it's tough. They are all emo hipster skinny shoes.


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

:laugh:


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## typeSLone (Feb 8, 2002)

bonesaw said:


> 13 haha. And it's tough. They are all emo hipster skinny shoes.


 Haha, must be just as tough as finding your 28" waist 36" length jeans too.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I'm 36x28 too but the other way.opcorn:


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## Morty 7 (Nov 1, 2012)

Nice build :thumbup:

Very similar specification to my engine, but I still have the 86,4 forged standard crank.

Did you have clearance problems with the pistons and head? I had to grind allot in the head.
According to Wössner this should not be necessary... 

I use my engine for circuit racing and it has been running sweet for three seasons until now when the bolts for the triggerwheel sheared and came out through the block...:banghead:


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

I had the same piston to head problem. I worked with wossner and got it all fixed. If someone buys a set now they will work without modification. You shoul try tacking trigger wheel on.


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## Morty 7 (Nov 1, 2012)

Nice, I have to buy a new set as one piston was damaged by the broken trigger wheel. However this means I have to build a new head as it was modified to fit the old piston design... I noticed you have oversized exhaust valves, I have oversized intake valves and standard sized exhaust valves.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

I have stock sized intake and exhaust.


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## Morty 7 (Nov 1, 2012)

Sorry, must have mixed up with info from another build thread on the forum :wave:


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

Ben ran a p.b. of 12.50 this past weekend and was #1 qualifier for 12.50 index. Went out third round due to a slight bump when getting on the 2-step and being staged deep. Post the pictures and vids Ben. :thumbup:


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Cecco has all the pics and vids.


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## typeSLone (Feb 8, 2002)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-Finals-MIR-This-Friday-Saturday-Sunday/page2

Don't have many photos but that link has the 12.50 video in it.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Finally took the car out this year. changed my drag wheel setup. took some weight out. added dogbox. car went 12.500 @ 105.11 at waterfest in the heat. Little disappointed didnt go quicker but matched my PB in 90 weather with humidity compared to last fall when it was 30-40 degrees so really cant complain too much.


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

so imagine when October comes....


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

fourthchirpin said:


> so imagine when October comes....


Exactly


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

The DA was horrible at Waterfest, so you'll definately make it happen at World Cup. :beer:


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Had an interesting last few weeks. Haven't touched the car since waterfest. Brought the car out to Fall Show and go and spun a rod bearing. shot a hole out back of block. Thought it was over for the year. thought about it for the week and decided to get it back together for World Cup Finals. Im sure glad i did. Fired it together with some stock rods on Wednesday and left Thursday for Maryland. Decided to lower rev limit as i was worried about the rods. Ran 12.96 on friday night. There were many delays due to rain and oil downs. We decided to send it and go back to the 12.50 MAP from the year before. Was able to run a 12.226 @ 109.59. i should have broken out of 12.50 index, luckily the person i raced went even quicker. I had another shot and ran 12.156 @ 107.21

[video=facebook;10151816580664398]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151816580664398[/video]
[video=facebook;10151816192624398]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151816192624398[/video]


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

i knew this weather would be flavorable.  great work bro.


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

Mark Morris said:


> The DA was horrible at Waterfest, so you'll definately make it happen at World Cup. :beer:


 Great job Benny!


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

If you're going to run under the index, run WAY under the index! Nice work.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

the index was a **** show. someone ran a 9.9X


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Maybe he was lost in the wrong index.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

guess its time to get this heap ready for this season.


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## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

Yes.


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## typeSLone (Feb 8, 2002)

bonesaw said:


> guess its time to get this heap ready for this season.


Yes time to get your heap ready. 11.50 index or I will leave an abandoned slow car in your yard.


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