# New Owner, several electical problems (headlight, tail lights, washer fluid, navigation, windows)



## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Hi, I recent purchased a used Phaeton which had prior damage. The damage was to the right front bumper and left rear passenger door. Nothing too bad, but I had to replace the front bumper, right headlight, right fog lamp, washer bottle, bumper wiring harness and right headlight washers. Also, replaced the timing belt, water pump, theromostat, etc when the car was disassebled. The cosmetic damage has been repaired but I'm having some issues. Thinking I can troubleshoot most of these issues but If someone can put me in the right direction that would be helpful. 

My right xenon low beam was working fine and then a few days ago turned itself off. The high beam, turn signals, and various lights worked ok. Prior to the xenon low beam turning off it seemed bright. Yesterday, the xenon low beam turned it self on and is working fine.

The left tail light has been blowing the fuse and going out. Because I was short on time, I put a 25 amp fuse in the fuse box instead of the 10 amp recommend. I know this is not recommend but I didn't want to be driving without the left tail lamps and I didn't have a lower rated one. The 25 amp was placed prior to the right headlight going out and the tail lamp fuse hasn't blown yet (I did switch it to a 15 amp yesterday). It appears the car previouly had issues with the left tail light because the prior owner had placed a non-factory fuse 15 amp fuse in the fuse box and I see evidence of tampering (some small gouges on the tail lens, plastic trunk trim is broken and trunk bumpers misaligned). Do the tail lights electronics short easy? I'm thinking they may have water in them if someone did buy new foam when they removed them. Seem plausible?

Last major issue I'm having is the washer bottle is not squirting fluid out. Tank should have a least half a bottle in it. I didn't see any leakage when filling the tank. I can't remove the belly pan easy at this time. Washer bottle and pump was replaced with used part but unfortunely not tested. Windshield wipers work fine and headlight washer pop up as they should, just no fluid from either.

Minor issues is the navigation is not functional. I'm guessing maybe the optical wire is disconnected. System asks for a CD, I insert it and it gets ejected. 

Also having issue with the left passenger window on the door that was hit. It rolls up but very slowly and will not come to a full close unless a manually help it. Rails maybe bent slightly, not sure. Glass was replaced because it had a crack in it. Maybe it needs to be readapted? How to readapt using vag.com?

I recently replaced the left side battery in the car. It was not holding a charge. Below is the scans from VAG-Com. Some of the controllers did not responsed. Guessing those controllers do not exist. I see that the headlight lights, tail lights, and window/headlight washer is controled by the J519 onboard power supply management. Is this likley defective? What controller address is that in VAG.com? 

Below is my scan. I've cleared most of the codes to see if they come back.


VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US


Chassis Type: 3D - B5 VW Phaeton

Scan: 01,02,03,05,06,07,08,09,11,15,16,17,18,19,23,27,34,35,36,37,38,42,46,48,49,52,55,56,57,61,62,65,68,69,72,76,77



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 01: Engine

Controller: 4D0 907 560 CS

Component: 4.2L V8/5V G 0030

Coding: 0007873

Shop #: WSC 01065

1 Fault Found:

16502 - Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor (G62): Signal too High

P0118 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded

Readiness: 0000 0000




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 02: Auto Trans

Controller: 09L 927 760 A

Component: AG6 09L 4,2L V8 0901

Coding: 0001102

Shop #: WSC 00000

2 Faults Found:

16944 - System Voltage Malfunction

P0560 - 000 - - - Intermittent

16946 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

P0562 - 000 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 03: ABS Brakes

Controller: 3D0 614 517 R

Component: ESP 5.7 allrad H33 0043

Coding: 0008376

Shop #: WSC 01065

No fault code found.




VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US







Address 5 Acc/Start Auth.

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 909 135 K

Component and/or Version: Kessy 6400

Software Coding: 0002280

Work Shop Code: WSC 01065

Additional Info: XXXXXXXXXXX ELV XXXX

Additional Info: Geraet 00000

3 Faults Found:

01176 - Key

008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

00668 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

009 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

01299 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

005 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent




address 06 seat mem. Pass

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 959 759 B

Component and/or Version: Sitzmemory D1 BF 1520

Software Coding: 0000003

Work Shop Code: WSC 01065

1 Fault Found:

01890 - Control Circuit Blower for Backrest

009 - Open or Short to Ground




address 07 Control Head

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 035 008 M

Component and/or Version: ZAB COCKPIT 0188

Software Coding: 0500305

Work Shop Code: WSC 01065

8 Faults Found:

00384 - Optical Databus

004 - No Signal/Communication

00385 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

012 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00386 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

012 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00387 - Plus Output Audio Channel for Navigation Announcements

012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent

00388 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

012 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00856 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

007 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00823 - Line-Output: Front Left

012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent

00859 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

012 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent




address 08

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 907 040 G

Component and/or Version: Climatronic D1 1132

Software Coding: 0000002

Work Shop Code: WSC 00000

1 Fault Found:

01312 - Powertrain Data Bus

013 - Check DTC Memory




address 09

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 937 049 G

Component and/or Version: STG.Bordnetz 5001

Software Coding: 0000002

Work Shop Code: WSC 03055

4 Faults Found:

01494 - Bulb for Parking Lamps: Left (M1)

010 - Open or Short to Plus

01498 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

010 - Please Register/Activate

00979 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

010 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00907 - Intervention load Management

000 - -




address 11

no resonse from controller




address 16

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 953 549 E

Component and/or Version: Lenksäulenmodul 3401

Software Coding: 0000232

Work Shop Code: WSC 01065

No fault code found.







address 17

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 920 981 A

Component and/or Version: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB4 0321

Software Coding: 0007221

Work Shop Code: WSC 03055

14 Faults Found:

00455 - Control Module for Access and Start Control: Comfort CAN (J518)

004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

00457 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00466 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00477 - Control Module: Display & Input: Comfort CAN: Front (J523)

004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

01320 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

01325 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

01330 - Central Control Module for Central Convenience (J393)

004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

01331 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

01332 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

01333 - Door Control Module: Rear Left (J388)

004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

01334 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

01336 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

01300 - Control Module for Navigation with CD-Rom (J401)

004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

01305 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent







address 18




No response from controller




address 19

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 6N0 909 901 

Component and/or Version: Gateway K<>CAN 0101

Software Coding: 0000006

Work Shop Code: WSC 01065

7 Faults Found:

00461 - Control Module for Seat Memory: Passenger (J521)

004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

00462 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00478 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00908 - Control Module for Wiper Motor

004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

01308 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

01335 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

01302 - Control Module for Telematic (J499)

004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent




address 23




No response from controller




address 27




No response from controller




address 37




VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 919 887 A

Component and/or Version: NAVIGATION 0147

Software Coding: 0000000

Work Shop Code: WSC 03055

1 Fault Found:

00003 - Control Module

014 - Defective




address 38




VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 907 135 C

Component and/or Version: Dachmodul 0708

Software Coding: 0000015

Work Shop Code: WSC 03087

2 Faults Found:

01520 - Rain and Light Recognition Sensor (G397)

005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation

00220 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent




address 42 

no response from controller




address 46

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 959 933 E

Component and/or Version: 4D HSG 3212

Software Coding: 0000034

Work Shop Code: WSC 98765

Additional Info: 3D1959701D Tuersteuergeraet FS 0104 3D1959702D Tuersteuergeraet BF 0104

Additional Info: 3D0959703D Tuersteuergeraet HL 0104 3D0959704D Tuersteuergeraet HR 01047L0907719 Neigun

13 Faults Found:

00927 - Terminal 30 (Right)

011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent

01516 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

011 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00926 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

011 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30

002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

00987 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

009 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00988 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

009 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00901 - Back-Up Lamps

009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent

00252 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00253 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00932 - Electric Window Motor: Drivers Side (V147)

005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - Intermittent

00933 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

005 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

01737 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

008 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00934 - Electric Window Motor: Rear Left (V26)

005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - Intermittent




address 48 

no response from controller




address 49 

no response from controller




address 52

no response from controller




address 62

no response from controller


address 55 

no response from controller


address 56

no response from controller


address 57 

no reponse from controller


address 65

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 907 273 C

Component and/or Version: Reifendruckueberw. 0021

Software Coding: 0011204

Work Shop Code: WSC 01065

No fault code found.




address 68

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D1 955 119 

Component and/or Version: Front Wiper 2005

Software Coding: 0000000

Work Shop Code: WSC 00000

No fault code found.



address 69 

no response from controller



address 39 right light

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 909 158 

Component and/or Version: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r) X012

Software Coding: 0000001

Work Shop Code: WSC 01065

No fault code found.




address 29 right light




VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 909 157 

Component and/or Version: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l) X012

Software Coding: 0000001

Work Shop Code: WSC 01065

No fault code found.




address 71

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 915 181 D

Component and/or Version: Batteriemanagement 2800

Software Coding: 0000000

Work Shop Code: WSC 00000

1 Fault Found:

00089 - Wire Monitoring for Terminal 30 Starter Battery

007 - Short to Ground


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Phaeton2 said:


> ...Do the tail lights electronics short easy? I'm thinking they may have water in them if someone did buy new foam when they removed them. Seem plausible?


The tail light electronics don't short easily, however, your suspicion of water in the rear light assembly (due to failure of the foam seal for one reason or another) is very plausible. There is a discussion listed in the forum FAQ about retrofitting rear fog lamps, have a look at that discussion because it will give you an overview of how the rear lamp assemblies go in and out of the car. You can then pull the assemblies and look for evidence of water damage.



Phaeton2 said:


> Last major issue I'm having is the washer bottle is not squirting fluid out. Tank should have a least half a bottle in it. I didn't see any leakage when filling the tank. I can't remove the belly pan easy at this time. Washer bottle and pump was replaced with used part but unfortunely not tested. Windshield wipers work fine and headlight washer pop up as they should, just no fluid from either.


That should be easy to troubleshoot, just look for proof of 12 volt power at the pump when washing is called for. I believe that there are two pumps down there, one for the windshield and one for the headlights, if you are not getting fluid from either one then I suspect your problem is with electrical supply.



Phaeton2 said:


> ...the left passenger window on the door that was hit... rolls up but very slowly and will not come to a full close unless a manually help it. Rails maybe bent slightly, not sure.


That sounds like a mechanical problem (too much friction in the window assembly), not an adaptation problem.



Phaeton2 said:


> Below is the scans from VAG-Com.


You need to purchase a Genuine Ross-Tech VAG-COM cable in order to get complete information. It appears that you have a generic (knock-off) cable, and unregistered software, the result is incomplete information on the scan you posted.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> Hi, I recent purchased a used Phaeton which had prior damage.


Welcome! You'll love the car, just a matter of working the bugs out from the wreck. May I ask where you're located? We have members around the country and many are willing to help.

As Michael already mentioned, you really need a genuine Ross Tech VCDS (VAG-COM) interface. Ebay hacked and cloned versions are not good enough. You need the most recent legitimate version for complete Phaeton support. We really need a complete picture in order to help. In the meantime I will try to make a few observations from the data we have.



> The left tail light has been blowing the fuse and going out. Because I was short on time, I put a 25 amp fuse in the fuse box instead of the 10 amp recommend. I know this is not recommend but I didn't want to be driving without the left tail lamps and I didn't have a lower rated one. The 25 amp was placed prior to the right headlight going out and the tail lamp fuse hasn't blown yet (I did switch it to a 15 amp yesterday). It appears the car previouly had issues with the left tail light because the prior owner had placed a non-factory fuse 15 amp fuse in the fuse box and I see evidence of tampering (some small gouges on the tail lens, plastic trunk trim is broken and trunk bumpers misaligned). Do the tail lights electronics short easy? I'm thinking they may have water in them if someone did buy new foam when they removed them. Seem plausible?


I can't remember offhand people having trouble with the tail-light assemblies themselves, but with the evidence of tampering you may have an issue. What we have heard of quite often is breakage or shorting in the wiring harness between the car and the trunk lid. The plastic sleeve sometimes starts binding up and then gets pinched or crushed. This could potentially short the trunk-lid tail lamp supply line to ground somewhere.



> Minor issues is the navigation is not functional. I'm guessing maybe the optical wire is disconnected. System asks for a CD, I insert it and it gets ejected.


I doubt it's the cable. If the nav computer were disconnected from the main infotainment display, you'd see a "Navigation Temporarily Unavailable" message instead of a prompt to insert a disc. The nav computer itself has a control-module defective DTC stored. It might have failed, but it also might just be a low voltage thing that needs to be cleared. I'd leave this alone until we get your electrical system healthy.



> Also having issue with the left passenger window on the door that was hit. It rolls up but very slowly and will not come to a full close unless a manually help it. Rails maybe bent slightly, not sure. Glass was replaced because it had a crack in it. Maybe it needs to be readapted? How to readapt using vag.com?


No need to use VCDS. If it loses its position memory, all you lose is automatic up-down. Restoring it is just a matter of manually rolling it up and down completely one time. As Michael already observed, if the motor is having a tough time moving the glass, there's probably residual damage from the collision.



> I recently replaced the left side battery in the car. It was not holding a charge. Below is the scans from VAG-Com. Some of the controllers did not responsed. Guessing those controllers do not exist. I see that the headlight lights, tail lights, and window/headlight washer is controled by the J519 onboard power supply management. Is this likley defective? What controller address is that in VAG.com?


In VCDS, J519 is known as Central Electronics at address 09. There's not yet any evidence this module is defective.



> Chassis Type: 3D - B5 VW Phaeton
> 
> Scan: 01,02,03,05,06,07,08,09,11,*15*,16,17,18,19,23,27,34,35,36,37,38,42,46,48,49,52,55,56,57,61,62,65,68,69,72,76,77


*Important question:* Did the collision set off any airbags? Your scan makes me think it did. Complete scan results are VERY important. VCDS should have tried to scan your airbag control module at address 15, but it's missing from your scan results entirely, neither scanned nor shown as unreachable. In addition, you have this interesting item:



> address 71
> VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US
> 
> Control Module Part Number: 3D0 915 181 D
> ...


This makes me think the start battery pyrotechnic isolator may have fired. You can see pictures of it in the battery replacement procedure thread. If it fired, the start battery is cut off from the car's electrical system and the car is having to do some major heroics just to start the engine. You should absolutely expect strange electrical issues as a result. This needs to be checked out before you even begin to think about chasing other electrical gremlins.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Thanks for the tips. I'll check these issues out and report my findings. I live in Chicago. The damage to the car was minor. No structural damage or air bags deployed as far as I can tell. In regards to Vag-com can I license the software in-liu of buying a cable? I scanned each of the controllers individually which is why some of the info is not complete. I thought the major difference is that the the non-authetic version lacks auto scanning and some conveniences but provides the same infomation. I didn't scan the air-bags intentionally since there are reported issues with certain models and I would rather be safe than sorry. So far loving the car, but yes I need to get these items sorted. Huge problem not having functioning washer tank and the intermitent headlight problem. Do you think the headlight isssue is the ballast? I have an extra ballast but changing it is a major pain. I'm also getting horrible gas milage in town....something like 6 mpg according to the computer. I got 19mph on the highway. I need to change the spark plugs. The snow screens in the air filter comparment which were dirty which I cleaned after my measurement. What kind of gas mileage are people getting in town in an urban enviroment like Chicago? I've read people saying they can get 25 mpg on the highway. Is that realistic? The car is meant for long trips as I mostly use public transporation. 

Ironicly, about 6 months ago I spoted a Phaeton in Cleveland Ohio with Ontairo plates. Was that you PanEuropean?


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

In regards to this:

address 71
VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US

Control Module Part Number: 3D0 915 181 D
Component and/or Version: Batteriemanagement 2800
Software Coding: 0000000
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000

1 Fault Found:
00089 - Wire Monitoring for Terminal 30 Starter Battery
007 - Short to Ground 

I replaced the left side battery following PanEuropen instructions. The negative on the right side battery is disconneted per the instructions. I think that is why that error is logged. Vehicle starts fine.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

> In regards to Vag-com can I license the software in-liu of buying a cable? I scanned each of the controllers individually which is why some of the info is not complete. I thought the major difference is that the the non-authetic version lacks auto scanning and some conveniences but provides the same infomation.


VCDS Lite would be much better than nothing, but it will be missing Climatronic support and a few other things. We suggest a KII-USB interface (minimum for complete support) or HEX-USB+CAN interface (if you think you'll ever need it for a newer VW or Audi).



> I didn't scan the air-bags intentionally since there are reported issues with certain models and I would rather be safe than sorry.


A reasonable precaution. I know the issue you're talking about, it's on certain older Jettas I think. The Phaeton isn't affected and you don't need to worry about it.



> Huge problem not having functioning washer tank and the intermitent headlight problem.


I'm unclear - is this just a problem with the headlight washers, or does it not spray the windshield either?

Could this be as simple as frozen fluid? The three-season stuff will most definitely freeze under our current weather in the mid-west, and who knows what was in there before you bought it.



> Do you think the headlight isssue is the ballast? I have an extra ballast but changing it is a major pain.


You do have a DTC in your post for open-circuit for your right headlight. I've gotten that same DTC for a simple bulb failure I believe. If you're concerned about the cost of a xenon headlamp, switch them left-to-right and see if the problem stays or follows.



> I'm also getting horrible gas milage in town....something like 6 mpg according to the computer. I got 19mph on the highway. I need to change the spark plugs. The snow screens in the air filter comparment which were dirty which I cleaned after my measurement. What kind of gas mileage are people getting in town in an urban enviroment like Chicago? I've read people saying they can get 25 mpg on the highway. Is that realistic? The car is meant for long trips as I mostly use public transporation.


You have a DTC for a problem with the coolant temperature sensor. That will absolutely hurt fuel mileage.

Address 01: Engine
Controller: 4D0 907 560 CS
Component: 4.2L V8/5V G 0030
Coding: 0007873
Shop #: WSC 01065

1 Fault Found:
16502 - Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor (G62): Signal too High
P0118 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded
Readiness: 0000 0000


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> In regards to this:
> 
> address 71
> VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US
> ...


Theoretically, that should be flagged 'Intermittent' if it happened in the past but isn't currently a problem. Otherwise I'd have written it off along with your blizzard of other low-voltage codes. If it's still present, clear the code and see if it comes back after a shutdown and restart cycle. In fact, if you haven't already, you should clear codes on everything on the entire car to get back to a baseline so we're not all chasing our tails here.

Jason


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

jyoung8607 said:


> VCDS Lite would be much better than nothing, but it will be missing Climatronic support and a few other things. We suggest a KII-USB interface (minimum for complete support) or HEX-USB+CAN interface (if you think you'll ever need it for a newer VW or Audi).


Following up to myself --

Ross Tech will let you apply the purchase price of VCDS Lite toward the later purchase of a genuine Ross Tech interface, so there's not too much risk in trying it out.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Problem is with the headlight washers and windshield washers. No fluid. The washer bottle and pumps were changed out with used parts. I'm the only person who put fluid in them so I don't think it could of froze since I bought fluid in the past month (unless the gas station sold inferior product, as I didn't really look). Thinking something wasn't hooked up correctly or one of the parts was defective. Guess I'll just have to check it out. 

What is the best way to access if you don't have a lift? I'm not even sure where you could put jack stands with all of the plastic protection under the car. I know the lifting points locations. My girlfriends father is a retired mechanic with a shop and lift and he did most of the work...I bought all the parts. Oh, I so love the lift. He is 3 hours away and I'm hoping I don't have to drive to his shop to fix this. I believe you have to remove the engine shield right behind the front bumper. 

The right headlight is currently working, which is why I'm thinking it's a ballast. Light turned off for 24 hours and then turned it self back on. I was worried that putting the big fuse for the taillight fried the headlight. 

The left side battery was dead for at least a year. I'm sure that is why I'm getting lots of these codes. I've cleared them all other than ones I could. 

I'm thinking the temperature switch is an old code. I have history from prior service records that the fans would not turn off and that was fixed. Car does not overheat.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

I looked at a wiring diagram and there are no obvious fuses to check. They are run by the wiper control module and its fuse, and your wiper control module is working in your scan. The two pumps do share a ground connection tucked in that back left corner of the engine compartment, ground #644. It might be worth checking out. Other than that, you're going to have to dig in and have a look. Make sure they got plugged in correctly and make sure the connectors see both 12V DC when you activate the pump and zero resistance to ground. The wiring harness might have internal breakage from the collision or something.

Jason


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> I'm thinking the temperature switch is an old code. I have history from prior service records that the fans would not turn off and that was fixed. Car does not overheat.


Forgot to reply to this part. The code isn't marked Intermittent, and the ECU is definitely smart enough to do that (wasn't sure about the battery monitoring controller). The ECU has flagged this sometime within the last drive cycle before your scan.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Ok thanks, I'll check it out. Guessing I get to play the game of not losing all the antifreeze when pulling the switch. Great  I'll see if the code comes back after I cleared it to be certain. This switch controls the fans correct? How does this affect gas consumption? Do you know the location of the switch? I hear that some vehicles may have more than one switch. Does the code tell me which one?


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

I haven't received the opportunity to pull the vehicle indoors to check out the issues with the car. It is snowing like crazy in Chicago. I performed a scan and many of the issues went away after clearing the codes. I'm assuming these were related to the left side battery being dead. 

Items that remain are:

temperature sensor address 1. I have a feeling this is not the sensor but an air bubble in the anti-freeze. When the timing belt and water pump was changed the anti-freeze was refilled. I'm guessing it wasn't properly vented when filling. I've changed anitfreeze on audi a4 before assuming it a similar procedure. Can I just remove the hose back to expose the vent and top off the anti-freeze until it leaks out the vent? Or do I need to do something more dramatic like drain it and refill to remove the air bubble?

backrest blower address 6. Fuse is ok (all 3 fuse at bottom right hand corner in dash good), suggested locations to look for open wire or short?

Address 8- what is this?

short on taillight address 9. Haven't had chance to look for short but will do.

Navigation address 37. Would like to get this working. I read this is a common fault code for 2004 Phaetons and code can be ignored. However Nav is not working, wondering if this is related. My vin is lower than 9042 which requires software flash of instrument cluster not J523 to clear fault code I read. No longer getting "defective nav unit fault code from prior scan, however I haven't tried to load a disk.

Rain and Light Sensor address 38. Adaption issue. Is this a sensor for the sunroof or is this sensor related to the lighting (causing the issue with the right headlight turning itself off?) If it is related to adaption of the sunroof, I have not properly adapted it and I can follow instructions I found on website. Related link: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5974591-Fault-Codes-on-Steve-s-2004-W12-(Toronto-Canada)

address 46, seems to be related to taillight. Should I be worked about the Terminal 30 left is is that an error likely caused by the tailight? Where is terminal 30 left?

*Codes below:
*
VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US

Control Module Part Number: 4D0 907 560 CS
Component and/or Version: 4.2L V8/5V G 0030
Software Coding: 0007873
Work Shop Code: WSC 01065
1 Fault Found:
19537 - Engine Temperature too Low
P3081 - 008 - Implausible Signal

Address 2
No fault code found.

Address 5
No fault

Address 6

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US

Control Module Part Number: 3D0 959 759 B
Component and/or Version: Sitzmemory D1 BF 1520
Software Coding: 0000003
Work Shop Code: WSC 01065
1 Fault Found:
01890 - Control Circuit Blower for Backrest
009 - Open or Short to Ground

Address 7

No fault

Address 8

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US

Control Module Part Number: 3D0 907 040 G
Component and/or Version: Climatronic D1 1132
Software Coding: 0000002
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000
1 Fault Found:
01312 - Powertrain Data Bus
013 - Check DTC Memory


Address 9

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US

Control Module Part Number: 3D0 937 049 G
Component and/or Version: STG.Bordnetz 5001
Software Coding: 0000002
Work Shop Code: WSC 03055
3 Faults Found:
01494 - Bulb for Parking Lamps: Left (M1)
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
01498 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

Address 17

No Fault

Address 19

No Fault

Address 37

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US

Control Module Part Number: 3D0 919 887 A
Component and/or Version: NAVIGATION 0147
Software Coding: 0400000
Work Shop Code: WSC 03055
1 Fault Found:
00625 - Vehicle Speed Signal
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

Address 38

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US

Control Module Part Number: 3D0 907 135 C
Component and/or Version: Dachmodul 0708
Software Coding: 0000015
Work Shop Code: WSC 03087
2 Faults Found:
01520 - Rain and Light Recognition Sensor (G397)
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
00220 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

Address 46

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US

Control Module Part Number: 3D0 959 933 E
Component and/or Version: 4D HSG 3212
Software Coding: 0000034
Work Shop Code: WSC 98765
Additional Info: 3D1959701D Tuersteuergeraet FS 0104 3D1959702D Tuersteuergeraet BF 0104
Additional Info: 3D0959703D Tuersteuergeraet HL 0104 3D0959704D Tuersteuergeraet HR 01047L0907719 Neigun
8 Faults Found:
01516 - Terminal 30: Left
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00984 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
009 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
00985 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
009 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent
00987 - Lamp for Brake Light: Left (M9)
009 - Open or Short to Ground
00988 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
009 - Please Register/Activate
00901 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
009 - Please Register/Activate
00252 - Taillight Assembly - Left Rear
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00253 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
004 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

Address 39 Right light

No fault

Address 25 Left Light

No fault

Adddress 71

No fault


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> temperature sensor address 1. I have a feeling this is not the sensor but an air bubble in the anti-freeze. When the timing belt and water pump was changed the anti-freeze was refilled. I'm guessing it wasn't properly vented when filling. I've changed anitfreeze on audi a4 before assuming it a similar procedure. Can I just remove the hose back to expose the vent and top off the anti-freeze until it leaks out the vent? Or do I need to do something more dramatic like drain it and refill to remove the air bubble?


It's possible you could have trapped air. I know what you're talking about on the A4; there's a bleed hole at the top of the system you access by backing off one of the heater core hoses, and one or two screws on the engine itself. I've done it on my B5.5 Passat V6. Unfortunately there are no factory-recommended bleed points on the Phaeton for either NAR engine that I know of. Due to the sheer volume and complexity of coolant plumbing, VW's only documented procedure is to use a special tool to draw a vacuum on the whole system and then have it suck coolant in to fill the vacuum. It's possible the coolant pipe bleeder screw on the front of the engine exists like it does on the Audi/VW V6 but I'm not sure.

In your first post you said you replaced the thermostat too. I have to ask: are you sure it's installed correctly? The design makes it unfortunately easy to install backwards without knowing it. You would have very erratic cooling system performance, which could produce strange errors when performance falls outside bounds the ECU's modeling expects. Since "backwards thermostat" isn't one of the conditions it can look for directly, it has no choice but to ascribe the problem to a possible sensor failure (too high or too low a rate-of-change because of strange thermostat operation) or simply a warm-up time limit being violated for unknown reasons.



> Address 8- what is this?


A notice that it's not receiving something it wants via CAN. More than likely this is related to the cooling system sensor/performance issues. Engine coolant temperature is an important input into the Climatronic algorithms.



> Navigation address 37. Would like to get this working. I read this is a common fault code for 2004 Phaetons and code can be ignored. However Nav is not working, wondering if this is related. My vin is lower than 9042 which requires software flash of instrument cluster not J523 to clear fault code I read. No longer getting "defective nav unit fault code from prior scan, *however I haven't tried to load a disk.*


Other than the speed-sensor error, is there any evidence it's currently broken?



> Rain and Light Sensor address 38. Adaption issue. Is this a sensor for the sunroof or is this sensor related to the lighting (causing the issue with the right headlight turning itself off?) If it is related to adaption of the sunroof, I have not properly adapted it and I can follow instructions I found on website. Related link: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5974591-Fault-Codes-on-Steve-s-2004-W12-(Toronto-Canada)


This one is a puzzler. I can virtually guarantee you this isn't behind one of two headlights shutting off sometimes. Beyond that I'm not sure. I do see that you have a V8 and not a W12, which means you probably don't have the optional reflective-film glass. If that's true, your coding value is wrong. It's possible the incorrect cabin glass setting creates a problem with rain/light sensor calibration.

*Paging Michael:* Can you drop some window glass and/or PR-code science on us? The array of glass options and what came standard in NAR always gives me a headache.



> address 46, seems to be related to taillight. Should I be worked about the Terminal 30 left is is that an error likely caused by the tailight? Where is terminal 30 left?


Terminal 30 is a VW standard term for electrical circuits which are "always hot" directly from the battery, even when the ignition is off. In this case, Terminal 30 Left refers to the left-side battery. The Phaeton has some rather unique power distribution stuff going on. Some modules have Terminal 30 feeds from the left only, more important things have Terminal 30 from whatever's working best at the moment (referred to as Terminal 30SV, or "start relevant") with automatic failover, and a few critical modules have direct Terminal 30 feeds from both sides. I think Central Convenience falls in that last category along with Central Electronics, Battery Monitoring and Access/Start Authorization.

To look further into that: With the ignition on but the engine not running, log in to address 71 (Battery Monitoring) and use the Measured Value Block function to look at blocks 001 and 002. You will see four values in each MVB. Write those down and post them here for us. It will give us a general idea of your electrical system's health.

I note you don't have a registered version of VCDS yet. I would really urge you to take care of that. I'm not harping on it over some moral concern (although the Ross-Tech team has been amazingly good to us and we try to be good to them in return). It's that we can easily send you off in the wrong troubleshooting direction if we don't have complete information. On this car, you really can't take one trouble code in isolation. They need to be taken in context with the rest to understand what's happening.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Regarding the temperature sensor. I have records it was "fixed" by a VW mechanic prior to me owning the car. The cooling fans were running and they said it was a temperature sensor fault. I might give those guys a call to see what they did. Again, vehicle doesn't overheat according the temperature gauge and I'm almost certain no special vacuum tool was used when filling the antifreeze. Assuming it's trapped air, I'm guessing I need to drain everything and refill it according to the recommended procedure. Any concern that the air bubble can cause a localized hot spot in the engine and create an issue? 

I pulled the nav unit from the glove compartment and found one plug not used on the harness and two cut orange wires. I started a separate thread on this one in the Phaeton forum with Photos.

I'll try and adapt the sunroof property and see if the rain and light sensor goes away assuming this is related to the sunroof. I believe the lights issues are related to a bad bulb or ignitor after looking into it. Need to order the parts to confirm. 

I'll pull the codes if I can. I would like to buy the full VCDS but first I need to stop spending my money on parts which is currently draining my wallet. When I started this project on, I never expected all of these other issues and lack of affordable parts. Lessoned learned on this one. I could of purchased a good undamaged Phaeton for about the same money without all the headaches. Well I'm in this one regardless if I want to be! Learned a lot about the car in the process so I guess that is a plus. Still a bargain of a vehicle given how wonderful the Phaeton is.

I want to do all the maintenance that wasn't previously done (or I can confirm) and eliminate all of these codes so I know I have a reliable vehicle. Next weekend I'm changing a bad wheel bearing and changing the spark plugs out. Hopefully that will cure my poor gas mileage. Many more parts on there way which I haven't even mentioned.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> Regarding the temperature sensor. I have records it was "fixed" by a VW mechanic prior to me owning the car. The cooling fans were running and they said it was a temperature sensor fault. I might give those guys a call to see what they did. Again, vehicle doesn't overheat according the temperature gauge and I'm almost certain no special vacuum tool was used when filling the antifreeze. Assuming it's trapped air, I'm guessing I need to drain everything and refill it according to the recommended procedure.


Not saying it *is* a badly installed thermostat; just listing possibilities. Temperature sensors are cheap and easy, so try that first.



> Any concern that the air bubble can cause a localized hot spot in the engine and create an issue?


Can't rule it out, but you haven't shared any DTCs or symptoms that are cause for immediate panic. If you have consistent heat in the cabin it implies the system is pretty full.



> I'll pull the codes if I can. I would like to buy the full VCDS but first I need to stop spending my money on parts which is currently draining my wallet. When I started this project on, I never expected all of these other issues and lack of affordable parts. Lessoned learned on this one. I could of purchased a good undamaged Phaeton for about the same money without all the headaches. Well I'm in this one regardless if I want to be! Learned a lot about the car in the process so I guess that is a plus. Still a bargain of a vehicle given how wonderful the Phaeton is.
> 
> I want to do all the maintenance that wasn't previously done (or I can confirm) and eliminate all of these codes so I know I have a reliable vehicle. Next weekend I'm changing a bad wheel bearing and changing the spark plugs out. Hopefully that will cure my poor gas mileage. Many more parts on there way which I haven't even mentioned.


If you were looking for a simple low-maintenance daily-driver with good fuel economy, I regret to inform you that accident-damaged Phaetons are not the place to start.   

What other extra parts do you have on the way? New spark plugs never hurt of course, but that coolant temperature thing will have a profound effect on fuel economy. If you are concerned about parts cost, then let's attack the stuff the car is complaining about first.

When you have time, I am interested to see the results of that address 71 MVB query in my earlier post.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

So why does the coolant sensor affect gas mileage? I don't get that. This is not a daily driver it's my snow mobile. Really meant for typical 3 hour drive to visit family or go snowboarding in Wisconsin. Snowboards are a tight fit. I use the train on a daily basis since I live in the City of Chicago. I got 19 MPG on highway but something like 8-9 MPG in town which seems ridiculous. Car seems to run good, so mechanically I think it's in good shape. Can't wait to see what happens after I change spark plugs if I have a few cylinders not firing. 

Other parts include fuel filter, HID lights, some interior lights, wheel caps...nothing too major. Was thinking of changing the transmission fluid, but I think I'm going to hold on that. One VW mechanic didn't recommend missing with transmission if its not broke (don't think he was a Phaeton tech, however). 

I already bought most of the parts which was for the accident which was the big cost. Bumper, headlights, fender, fender liner, fog lamp, misc plastic bumper parts, lower engine shields, paint, headlight squirters, TPMS, left side battery, water bottle, door trims, door glass, timing belt, timing belt accessories, water pump, anti-freze, oil, etc....

Luckily no frame damage, but one small hit requires a lot of parts. Ironically, the car has 5 brand new tires on it. At least I don't have to worry about that.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> So why does the coolant sensor affect gas mileage? I don't get that.


Colder engines require richer fuel/air mixtures. Warmer engines can run on leaner (more economical) fuel/air mixtures, but will run fine on a rich mixture as well. It gets more complicated on turbo engines but we don't have to worry about that here.

If the coolant temperature sensor degrades or fails, it typically does that toward the cooler/cold direction. Based on that, the ECU may end up adding more fuel than necessary. If the CTS fails entirely (or is declared to be failed by the ECU) the ECU may be forced to use "safe" conservative fueling maps that are not as economical.



> Can't wait to see what happens after I change spark plugs if I have a few cylinders not firing.


You should have misfire DTCs if that were happening.



> Other parts include fuel filter, HID lights, some interior lights, wheel caps...nothing too major. Was thinking of changing the transmission fluid, but I think I'm going to hold on that. One VW mechanic didn't recommend missing with transmission if its not broke (don't think he was a Phaeton tech, however).


If I recall correctly, the V8 with the 6-speed auto is still treated as lifetime-rated fluid. This is good because the 6-speed specific fluid is outrageously expensive. If you don't have any shifting problems and you're short on cash, this is probably safe to hold off on.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Temperature gauge shows it gets plenty warm. Reading about 3/4 movement on dial. At first I thought it was overheating, but I read that is normal. Forget the actual temp, but I'll check. Your right, Bentley maintenance schedule calls to check the transmission fluid at 20,000 miles intervals. I misread that.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Steve:

I'm kind of late coming back to this conversation, I'll try to catch up on a number of points that you have raised.



Phaeton2 said:


> In regards to Vag-com can I license the software in-lieu of buying a cable?


My very strong recommendation is that you buy the HEX+CAN+USB cable. It's not cheap (about $300), but it is invaluable, and you can always resell it easily if you get rid of your Volkswagen. Having full diagnostic functionality is essential to accomplish the range and scope of work you have in front of you. If buying a cable is not possible right now, then you need to get your car scanned by someone else in Chicago-land who has a cable. Most other VW owners who have a cable will do this free of charge, although it is customary to provide a bottle of wine or some similar appreciation gift to the guy or girl with the cable. Have them do two scans: One as the car sits, then, clear all the codes, and do another scan and see what the result is. Be sure to leave the engine running at all times when you do the scan.



Phaeton2 said:


> I'm also getting horrible gas mileage in town....something like 6 mpg according to the computer.


The most probable cause for the horrible in town (translation = short hops) gas mileage is the cold weather we have been experiencing lately. When the car is cold, the emissions control system tries to bring the catalytic converters up to operating temperature as quickly as possible. This consumes fuel. FWIW, I'm getting equally horrible fuel mileage (about 5 MPG) in my Phaeton when making short trips around town, and I know my engine is trouble-free... see my remark below about getting 30 MPG on the highway just last month.



Phaeton2 said:


> I got 19 MPG on the highway. ... I've read people saying they can get 25 MPG on the highway. Is that realistic?


I think it is realistic if you drive at moderate speeds (60-65 MPH or so) and you use the cruise control on long trips. I averaged 30 miles per US gallon on my recent cross-Canada trip (Vancouver Island to Toronto, in December 2013), and my Phaeton has a W12 engine in it.



Phaeton2 said:


> Ironically, about 6 months ago I spotted a Phaeton in Cleveland Ohio with Ontario plates. Was that you PanEuropean?


No, my car never left Vancouver Island between 2007 and December 2013.



Phaeton2 said:


> I replaced the left side battery following PanEuropen instructions. The negative on the right side battery is disconneted per the instructions. I think that is why that error is logged. Vehicle starts fine.


Whoops - either you misinterpreted my instructions, or I made an error in the instructions. The negative terminal on the right battery should be re-connected after the new left battery is installed. Please let me know where that post is so that I can have a look and make sure I didn't make an error when I wrote things up.



Phaeton2 said:


> What is the best way to access [the windshield and headlight washing system] if you don't have a lift?


Take the front bumper cover off. That will give you pretty good access to the two pumps down at the bottom, the wiring, that kind of stuff. See these two posts for instructions about how to remove the front bumper cover: Retrofitting Dual Xenon Headlamps , and Headlight Washers - troubleshooting. When you re-install the front bumper cover, be sure to install the fasteners in EXACTLY the sequence that the manual sets out, and to not over-torque them, otherwise you will soon get a crack in the front bumper cover.



Phaeton2 said:


> The left side battery was dead for at least a year.


If you still have that battery installed (the one that was dead for a year), you MUST replace it, otherwise it will be a continuing source of headaches for you. I'm not sure from reading your prior posts if you have replaced it or not.



Phaeton2 said:


> I'm thinking the temperature switch is an old code.


OK, that is possible. What you should now do is clear all of the codes in all of the controllers, and see which ones come back. If you have a VAG-COM HEX+CAN+USB cable, you can do this automatically with one button click. Otherwise, you might have to open each controller one by one, and clear the codes manually. But, for sure, clear all of the codes in all of the controllers, that will let us focus our attention on what is presently a problem.



Phaeton2 said:


> ...temperature sensor address 1 (engine controller). I have a feeling this is not the sensor but an air bubble in the anti-freeze.


I disagree. I'm pretty sure that an air bubble would not cause this. VW makes 6 million cars every year, they are way too smart to put a temperature sensor in a location where it could be rendered permanently inoperative by an air bubble. Enough time and mileage has passed since the antifreeze change to allow any air bubble that might have been there to move along out of the way. So, investigate the wiring to that sensor, and if the wiring appears to be correct, plan on purchasing and installing a new sensor. Jason is right, if that sensor is not functional, your fuel mileage will be horrible.



Phaeton2 said:


> backrest blower address 6. Fuse is ok (all 3 fuse at bottom right hand corner in dash good), suggested locations to look for open wire or short?


Leave that one alone for the time being, you have bigger fish to fry elsewhere. But, when you do get around to it, here are the instructions for getting into the seatback and having a look: Front Seat Disassembly, Service, etc. Don't plan on doing any seat disassembly until the temperatures get up into the 70s - or unless you have a heated garage to work in. If you try to take those plastic parts apart when they cold, they will break.



Phaeton2 said:


> Controller 37 (Nav CD reader): 1 Fault Found: 00625 - Vehicle Speed Signal 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent


That fault is spurious and will go away when the Nav CD reader software is updated from 0147 to 0168.



Phaeton2 said:


> Controller 38 (roof controller)
> Component and/or Version: Dachmodul 0708
> Software Coding: 0000015
> Work Shop Code: WSC 03087
> ...



Try coding this one to 0000047. The correct coding for a North American Region (NAR) V8 will be either 15 or 47, there are no other choices. But, for the time being, this is of minimal concern, it doesn't directly affect functionality.

Concerning controller 46, the Central Comfort Controller that is throwing all the faults, you really have to get a complete VAG-COM scan (either licenced shareware or HEX+CAN+USB cable) before I can comment with accuracy here.

---------------

I think it would make the most sense if you, Jason, and I could get together in the same place, with your car present. We could probably clear most of the problems in one day.

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Phaeton2 said:


> Temperature gauge shows it gets plenty warm. Reading about 3/4 movement on dial.


The coolant temperature will typically read 90°C or 200°F when the engine has fully warmed up.

Michael


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Thanks for all the valuable tips, Jason and Michael. I haven't had a chance to look at the temp sensor. Maybe the same fellas who did the work on the navigation also did the work on the temp sensor. Where is the sensor located? 

Car gets up to 200 degrees normally and yes most of my driving in city has been 1 mile here and 1 mile there. I did get a change to check out the washer bottle today. It is not frozen and lines are open as well. Appears I'm not getting voltage to the washer pump, checked it with my voltmeter. I was able to use a floor jack and jack stand to lift one side of the car up, remove the front shield and partially remove the inner fender liner to get access to the pump. It was not fun as I was in a unheated garage with the door open (car to long to shut the door) fighting with the snow and slush. I had to put it back together without fixing it since I was hosting a superbowl party. Any idea where the other end of the harness plugs in the power? It may not be connected or harness damaged since the bumper, washer bottle, and harness was damaged prior. I checked the fuse for the windshield / washers but I have no clue if that also powers the pumps. I only saw one fuse for the whole system. Wish it was as easy as a fuse but doesn't appear to be. 

I followed the instructions for battery replacement so maybe you didn't understand me? reconnect left side first then right side. I replaced the left side battery with an OEM from VW.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5601569

Michael, thanks for the offer to help to clear some of these codes in person. I'm sure with a little guidance and time I can get them by myself. I have access to a lift, but not at the present time. However, I would be glad to take you up and meet some fellow members in the spring. Sounds fun. Maybe, I leave a few hard codes for you as a gift!


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> Thanks for all the valuable tips, Jason and Michael. I haven't had a chance to look at the temp sensor. Maybe the same fellas who did the work on the navigation also did the work on the temp sensor. Where is the sensor located?


IIRC it's on a metal pipe between the heads on the back of the engine, but I don't have access to my repair manual at the moment.



> Car gets up to 200 degrees normally and yes most of my driving in city has been 1 mile here and 1 mile there.


There's a lot of range designed into the nominal 200F/90C instrument cluster needle display. It's basically a fancy idiot light. If the needle doesn't show 200F/90C, you're WAY off from that temperature. You can still have problems with the "correct" reading. The fact you have re-occurring coolant temperature/sensor DTCs means there's something wrong enough for the ECU to complain. It's also definitive proof the ECU sees readings that would affect A/F ratios and therefore fuel economy.



> I did get a change to check out the washer bottle today. It is not frozen and lines are open as well. Appears I'm not getting voltage to the washer pump, checked it with my voltmeter. I was able to use a floor jack and jack stand to lift one side of the car up, remove the front shield and partially remove the inner fender liner to get access to the pump. It was not fun as I was in a unheated garage with the door open (car to long to shut the door) fighting with the snow and slush. I had to put it back together without fixing it since I was hosting a superbowl party. Any idea where the other end of the harness plugs in the power? It may not be connected or harness damaged since the bumper, washer bottle, and harness was damaged prior. I checked the fuse for the windshield / washers but I have no clue if that also powers the pumps. I only saw one fuse for the whole system. Wish it was as easy as a fuse but doesn't appear to be.


I agree there is no separate fuse, based on what I saw in my research earlier in this thread. It seems likely you have wiring harness damage. Do you have a decent multimeter that you can take voltage and resistance measurements with? If so, I will take another look at the diagrams when I get a chance and see if we can recommend further tests to isolate the breakage.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Think I figured out the tail light short. The taillight bulb on the trunk is held in place with two screws. I think the two screws were not secure which due to the design allows the positive and negative terminals to short with the trunk. 

The rain and light sensor error went away with revised coding, but then I couldn't access address 46. Got error "controller uses unknown protocol! Protocol Key C90F", so I changed the coding back on the rain and light sensor which allowed access to address 46. 

Below is photo of requested coding for battery management. Also took photos of the location for the area for temperature sensor. I found a photo online for an audi 4.2 but for the life of me I can't find the sensor. It a crowded mess. 

I also found the error for the washer pump using VAG.com Had I known I could of scanned this, I would of saved a whole day of labor. That $300 cable is sounding better every day. It is quite amazing how smart the computer is.


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Below is a photo of the tail bulb housing. If you look close there are bare metal bus lines to the bulbs which if the screws are not tight can touch and short against the trunk. Even in removing the bulb you could cause a short if someone is activating the light. 

I believe the sunroof code is due to the sunroof never being adapted. I saw the instructions on the forum on how to calibrate, but I don't understand what I'm to do. Does the sunroof need to be open before turning on the ignition? I don't understand how you bring the rotary switch to zero if it is already at zero. I don't understand how the emergency close function works. I didn't find anything in the manual. 

Below is the forum which shows the location of the temp sensor on an audi 4.2. Still can't figure out with this diagram if it is correct. 
]http://m.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2816308

Also, after looking at the code,address 68 (front wiper, see photo above), I think I might have power to the washer pump. It says circuit open intermittent after I tested it (see photo above) and I did disconnect the wire to one of the pump while the car was on. Prior to testing address 68, I had no faults. I only checked one pump assuming the issue would be identical to both. I think my friend may of pushed the parking light indicator instead of activating the washer pump when reading my voltmeter (as I couldn't see the window or headlights while under the car). Oh, Boy. Would this suggest the pumps are bad? I have spares but they are 3 hours away. Prior to fixing the front end damage, the wiring to the pump was damaged. That could of created a short and fried the pumps. I'm guessing I have the original pumps installed instead not the replacements which came with my salvaged washer bottle. (edit, I found out the replacement pumps were installed from salvage vehicle so I think they are good but I haven't tested)


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

You have to watch this, I almost rolled out of my chair laughing. Still don't know where this sensor is, but I feel better already.

http://youtu.be/BrbHpSczF9M


Regarding the washer issue, could the problem be the J39 relay in the right front footwell? I did notice, I'm missing a plug where you are supposed to place the lift there. Maybe water got in that area. I checked the fuse SB64 and SB18 for the steering wheel controls, they are fine. Other fuses are SD19, SD11, and SD18 in the electronics box in right plenum.

Good info here with wiring diagrams. Unfortunately, I'm not very good at interpreting these yet.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5909653-Troubleshooting-Power-Supply-to-Headlight-Washers


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Found the parts diagram for the temperature sensor. Part #5. Part # 06A919501A. Looks like there are two sensors, one on the upper radaitor hose and one on the metal tube at the back of the engine.

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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

bump...looking for insight on the washer pumps and light and rain sensor. Hoping to fix this weekend.


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Phaeton2 said:


> Found the parts diagram for the temperature sensor. Part #5. Part # 06A919501A. Looks like there are two sensors, one on the upper radaitor hose and one on the metal tube at the back of the engine.


Hi,
The temperature sensor by the radiator measures the radiator outlet temperature. It is used to control the cooling fans.
Whereas the temperature sensor at the top rear of the engine measures the actual engine temperature.

Gabriel


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

*Update*

I have some good news and bad news after my weekend of fun...

Tail lights are holding. It appears the socket design is susceptible to shorting if not tightened fully.

Headlights are almost sorted. At least I have one good one. Changed out the D1s bulb assembly on the left and it is working fine. I'm still a little stumped why the right side went out for a few days. Currently it's working so I'll wait till it goes out again to troubleshoot. I also need to install the small little blue bulbs on each side (waiting for parts). Dash still showing headlight error so I'm guessing it is because the blue bulbs are missing. Are the headlights designed to automatically turn on at night if the headlight switch is in the "0" position? They are not turning on at night unless I turn the switch away from "0". Guessing this is related to the rain and light sensor. Is this an issue of adaptation or coding? As I stated before, when I recode I can't access address 46.

I found the temperature sensor by the radiator. Bad news, it is not on the upper radiator hose... it is on the lower hose. I haven't identified the upper sensor location, but based on my issues I have a feeling that one is ok. My fans run when the car is turned on from a cold start. I assume this is not proper operation based on every other car I've worked on unless the Phaeton is "unique". Fan should only run when the engine is above operating temperature correct? My gauge shows it maintains 200 degrees (it is rather cold in Chicago at present so fans are of little use I imagine). Based on this, do you agree the issue is the sensor by the radiator and not the one behind the engine? If it is the radiator sensor, I have two options. Pull sensor and quickly put the new one or drain antifreeze. I'm not a fan of the first option because antifreeze is highly corrosive. Does the Phaeton have a drain in the bottom of the radiator that you can hook a hose to cleanly empty and recover the fluid? I've seen a similar setup on an audi a4. 

Navigation is repair is on hold until I can flash update the software.

Still having issues with the washer pumps. I've done a fair amount of troubleshooting and I think it is the J39 relay in the front passenger footwell. I've checked the following:

Fuses below instrument panel on driver side - SB64, SB18 are ok. Fuses in electronics box in right plenum, SD19 & SD18 are ok. SD11 was blown. Replaced fuse and it still doesn't work. Checked for power at SD19 and SD11 and I have power when activated. Forgot to check power for SD18 but both headlight washers move up and down when activated so it must have power. Checked for power at washer bottle and I have no power. I forgot to measure resistance of wiring for short, but I don't believe there is a short. The harness was replaced with new (used part) and the computer is recognizing the pumps when disconnected so wiring must be intact. I also hooked up the pump independently to a 12 V battery. I placed the pump’s lower inlet in washer fluid (fluid placed in a jar) but it didn't pump or make noise. Perhaps, the pump needs fluid pressure to push fluid (can’t suck). Based on the conditions above, would this suggest the J39 relay? Again, I'm bad at reading the wiring diagrams. Is access to the J39 relay similar to the instructions attached (retrofit push button start)? http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1683482 I believe the relays are below the front passenger carpet but I can't find a diagram showing the exact location. I did see one terminal on the front passenger wheel hosing unused. Not sure if that is anything.









Also, I have a few comments on the dreaded electronics box in the right plenum. For sake of checking the fuses for the washer pump you don’t need to remove the second plenum cover or wipers as shown in this thread. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5909653-Troubleshooting-Power-Supply-to-Headlight-Washers Also, my box did not have the special locks, part number 3D0 971 838M. I have a feeling these were added to later models. I didn’t see anything which suggests this is a leaker if properly closed (although I could not observe the design of the rear of the box). I’m an architect so I familiar with how water can travel. The lid overlaps the lower box quite nicely. Perhaps if it is not locked water could blow up the side of the box and past the lid and into the box. Water does drip on the top of the lid as I observed. I would recommend fully cleaning the lid top before removing to insure you don’t get dirt or water in the box or prevent the lid from fully closing. I did notice however that you must lock the front latch before the side latch (There are two locks). You should hear an audible click when closed. I couldn’t get the front latch to click unless I closed it first. Maybe this is the reason VW issued the bulletin and provided the locks in newer cars (as you might not be able to install the locks unless both latches are fully closed. This would prevent a technician from accidently not locking the box).










Lastly, I removed one spark plug. It was not a recommended plug from NGK and had white deposits on the tips (4 prong design, NGK R, BKR6ECU)


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> I have some good news and bad news after my weekend of fun...


Lots of good work here!



> Dash still showing headlight error so I'm guessing it is because the blue bulbs are missing. Are the headlights designed to automatically turn on at night if the headlight switch is in the "0" position? They are not turning on at night unless I turn the switch away from "0". Guessing this is related to the rain and light sensor. Is this an issue of adaptation or coding? As I stated before, when I recode I can't access address 46.


As far as I know, all the Phaetons shipped here do have automatic headlights if the switch is in the right position. I believe you put the switch in the first position, and you should see a green icon pop up in your instrument cluster. It is definitely based on input from that rain/light sensor in Roof Electronics, so don't expect it to work until that's fixed.

I am not sure why you'd have problems with address 46 depending on roof electronics coding. I checked around with Google and most instances of that error seem to trace back to sketchy third-party cables. For your missing headlights, if I recall correctly, you should be able to see fault codes to indicate which is at fault. They will show up in the left/right headlight controllers, or possibly in Central Electronics or Central Convenience. These may be some of the codes your VCDS-Lite can't interpret.



> I found the temperature sensor by the radiator. Bad news, it is not on the upper radiator hose... it is on the lower hose. I haven't identified the upper sensor location, but based on my issues I have a feeling that one is ok. My fans run when the car is turned on from a cold start. I assume this is not proper operation based on every other car I've worked on unless the Phaeton is "unique". Fan should only run when the engine is above operating temperature correct? My gauge shows it maintains 200 degrees (it is rather cold in Chicago at present so fans are of little use I imagine). Based on this, do you agree the issue is the sensor by the radiator and not the one behind the engine? If it is the radiator sensor, I have two options. Pull sensor and quickly put the new one or drain antifreeze. I'm not a fan of the first option because antifreeze is highly corrosive. Does the Phaeton have a drain in the bottom of the radiator that you can hook a hose to cleanly empty and recover the fluid? I've seen a similar setup on an audi a4.


Bad news: The official drain procedure is to remove that sensor and disconnect the lower hose. Good news: The sensor on the lower hose is G83. Your fault is for G62 which is tucked behind the engine like we talked about. Access sucks, but you probably won't lose much coolant.



> Navigation is repair is on hold until I can flash update the software.


That is probably for the best. Also, as you may have noticed on your other thoroughly-hijacked thread, we are learning some stuff that may help you.



> Still having issues with the washer pumps. I've done a fair amount of troubleshooting and I think it is the J39 relay in the front passenger footwell.


It seems unlikely. According to the wiring diagrams, J39 only powers the headlamp washer pump V11. It wouldn't explain the main windshield washer pump V59 not working. The diagrams show V59 being powered directly by wiper controller J400 (integral with the driver's side wiper motor, powered by SD19) without any intervening fuses or relays. It can't be ruled out as a fault, but it's definitely not the only fault: it can't explain both motors failing to activate.



> I forgot to measure resistance of wiring for short, but I don't believe there is a short. The harness was replaced with new (used part) ...


The two motors do share a common ground point. One single-fault explanation for your problems would be a poor ground. It's possible your spliced-in harness segment isn't grounded properly. Check the wiring again; one of the two pins should have 0 Ohms resistance to ground. Also check for +12V on one of the pins (when activated) with your other multi-meter lead on a known-good chassis ground rather than the other pin of the connector.



> ... and the computer is recognizing the pumps when disconnected so wiring must be intact.


Define this, please.



> I also hooked up the pump independently to a 12 V battery. I placed the pump’s lower inlet in washer fluid (fluid placed in a jar) but it didn't pump or make noise. Perhaps, the pump needs fluid pressure to push fluid (can’t suck).


This would seem to indicate a faulty pump, would it not? You should be able to hear or feel some reaction from the pump even if it was sucking air.

I'm not sure how you tested. If you did this with the pump on the car outside, it could be locked-up due to frozen fluid.



> Is access to the J39 relay similar to the instructions attached (retrofit push button start)? http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1683482 I believe the relays are below the front passenger carpet but I can't find a diagrami showing the exact location.


Should you need to access it, it's in a black plastic box under the carpet, just to the left of where you took that picture. It's all the way forward, vertical against the base of the firewall.



> I did see one terminal on the front passenger wheel hosing unused. Not sure if that is anything.


Hard to tell for sure from that angle. However, I think that's where you screw on the one nut holding down the forward end of the passenger door lower trim strip, which you had to pull up to access that area. If you're anything like me, it's the nut you discovered when you heard a "snap" from that area as you were pulling the strip up. Or, some dealer tech or owner before you may have already done it. Look on the trim strip in that area for a place where it looks like a plastic tab snapped off.



> Lastly, I removed one spark plug. It was not a recommended plug from NGK and had white deposits on the tips (4 prong design, NGK R, BKR6ECU)


I couldn't find a reference to a NGK plug BKR6ECU. NGK's application guide does list a plug BKR6EQUA for the V8, which is consistent with your picture. Your picture shows the center electrode almost entirely worn away when compared with a pic of a new plug. A round of new plugs would be a good idea.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Thanks for the reply! Looking forward to tracking these issues down. 



jyoung8607 said:


> I checked around with Google and most instances of that error seem to trace back to sketchy third-party cables. For your missing headlights, if I recall correctly, you should be able to see fault codes to indicate which is at fault. They will show up in the left/right headlight controllers, or possibly in Central Electronics or Central Convenience.


As far as I know, I don't have any sketchy third-party cables. Sketchy prior work maybe? I have scanned the controllers for the headlight, address 39 and 25, already in the past and they said "no fault". I'll try resetting it again and see what happens.



jyoung8607 said:


> Bad news: The official drain procedure is to remove that sensor and disconnect the lower hose. Good news: The sensor on the lower hose is G83. Your fault is for G62 which is tucked behind the engine like we talked about. Access sucks, but you probably won't lose much coolant.


Sounds great to me! Sounds easier and much cleaner.



jyoung8607 said:


> That is probably for the best. Also, as you may have noticed on your other thoroughly-hijacked thread, we are learning some stuff that may help you.


Ha Ha, no problem. Has anyone thought about abandoning the GPS in it's entirety? I remember reading on this forum where one member removed the head unit screen and replaced it with another screen of the same size with multiple AV inputs. He then overlayed a touch screen layer (thin plastic sensor) over the new screen. Then with some type of switch, he could change the screen to an ipod, dvd, or the main head unit. Maybe you could do something similar by outputing a portable GPS to the screen. Rather complicated but it would give you a modern interface.



jyoung8607 said:


> It seems unlikely. According to the wiring diagrams, J39 only powers the headlamp washer pump V11. It wouldn't explain the main windshield washer pump V59 not working. The diagrams show V59 being powered directly by wiper controller J400 (integral with the driver's side wiper motor, powered by SD19) without any intervening fuses or relays. It can't be ruled out as a fault, but it's definitely not the only fault: it can't explain both motors failing to activate.


Shucks... Maybe both pumps are fried and J39 is junk. V11 is detected by the computer when disconnected (see below). Computer should be able to monitor if the relay is bad but not if the wiring is faulty, right? Would that rule out the ground theory? Guess the only way to tell is to meaure it with my meter for sure, but man this will be the 3rd time I've had to jack the car up and remove the wheel liner and front shield. Bummer.



jyoung8607 said:


> The two motors do share a common ground point. One single-fault explanation for your problems would be a poor ground. It's possible your spliced-in harness segment isn't grounded properly. Check the wiring again; one of the two pins should have 0 Ohms resistance to ground. Also check for +12V on one of the pins (when activated) with your other multi-meter lead on a known-good chassis ground rather than the other pin of the connector.
> 
> 
> Define this, please.


After I disconnected the washer pump wiring on the one pump, I received the fault code "00156 - Control Circuit for Windshield Washer Pump 011 Open Circuit Intermittent" (see photo posted on 2-3-2014) . The fault code did not exist when the washer pump was connected. For this reason, the system is seeing the pump somehow. This is why I'm assuming all the wires are present and working.




jyoung8607 said:


> This would seem to indicate a faulty pump, would it not? You should be able to hear or feel some reaction from the pump even if it was sucking air.
> 
> I'm not sure how you tested. If you did this with the pump on the car outside, it could be locked-up due to frozen fluid.


Car was inside a heated garage (45 degrees-55 degrees) for about 8 hours before I tested the pump. It can't be frozen because fluid comes out of the pump outlet when I pull the hose off the pump (pumps also drained when tested prior and it was 20 degrees outside). I tested it by hooking up a 12 Volt car battery (my old left side AGM battery which is useless but charged to 12.5 Volts) to pin 1 and 2 of the pump (V11 per diagram). Negative went to pin 1 (where brown wire hooks up) and positive to pin 2 (where red green wire connects). Not sure why but if you look at the digarme pump V59 power is reversed (positive to pin 1 and negative to pin 2). Can you switch positive and negative on the pumps and not fry them? I got a little spark on the positive terminal when I first hooked it up and then no spark when testing a second and third time.



jyoung8607 said:


> Hard to tell for sure from that angle. However, I think that's where you screw on the one nut holding down the forward end of the passenger door lower trim strip, which you had to pull up to access that area. If you're anything like me, it's the nut you discovered when you heard a "snap" from that area as you were pulling the strip up. Or, some dealer tech or owner before you may have already done it. Look on the trim strip in that area for a place where it looks like a plastic tab snapped off.


This photo is taken from the engine compartment not the interior. I'm looking at the front of the wheel well below a tank (don't remember which one) on the right side (passenger side) of the vehicle (looking towards rear bumper). This is near the washer pump. I took the photo because I see 3 wires grounded or passed through (assume some are positive) the wheel well. 2 wires are on the same terminal. One terminal is not used. I was wondering if one of the wires is on the wrong terminal possibly causing my power issue with the washer pump.



jyoung8607 said:


> I couldn't find a reference to a NGK plug BKR6ECU. NGK's application guide does list a plug BKR6EQUA for the V8, which is consistent with your picture. Your picture shows the center electrode almost entirely worn away when compared with a pic of a new plug. A round of new plugs would be a good idea.


Those are being replaced, if I ever get the part (They are being professionally handled by the US Post Office, who is shiping the package everywhere except me). Part number "BKR6ECU" is straight off the barrel of the plug. It's not the "BKR6EQUA". Plugs have been changed at some time because the connector to the coils are broken. Looking at some photos of "BKR6ECU" the center of the plug doesn't protrude past the insulator. My photos was included more because of the white deposits which I understand shows wear.


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Where is grounding point "644" in engine compartment, right? I need to check that.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> Where is grounding point "644" in engine compartment, right? I need to check that.


Right in the area you were talking about.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Phaeton2 said:


> Has anyone thought about abandoning the GPS in it's entirety?


I do confess that if I have to do serious navigating over long distances (cross-country travel), I bring along a Garmin GPS. But, for local navigation, the Phaeton GPS is 'sufficient'. 

Michael

*My car, back in 2005 (Beta Testing a new GPSR for Garmin, on the way back from Kansas)*


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> As far as I know, I don't have any sketchy third-party cables. Sketchy prior work maybe?


I was referring to your third-party VCDS interface. You can Google the protocol error, you'll see what I'm talking about.



Phaeton2 said:


> I have scanned the controllers for the headlight, address 39 and 25, already in the past and they said "no fault". I'll try resetting it again and see what happens.


They may be in Central Electronics (edit: some are in Central Convenience, I think) instead. There are DTCs there you haven't decoded yet. It owns the city lights, turn signals, etc so they can be operated by the alarm and side-light features with the rest of the car asleep. The headlight controllers are mainly there to process pitch-angle and height messages from the suspension controller and use them to level the xenons.



Phaeton2 said:


> Ha Ha, no problem. Has anyone thought about abandoning the GPS in it's entirety? I remember reading on this forum where one member removed the head unit screen and replaced it with another screen of the same size with multiple AV inputs. He then overlayed a touch screen layer (thin plastic sensor) over the new screen. Then with some type of switch, he could change the screen to an ipod, dvd, or the main head unit. Maybe you could do something similar by outputing a portable GPS to the screen. Rather complicated but it would give you a modern interface.


It's been done by a few people, but there's a lot of switching back-and-forth needed to run the HVAC and suspension control and TPMS and such. In a perfect world with infinite time I'd work on an Android tablet app that could consume the front-panel buttons via GPO, and talk on the CAN bus, etc to look like a factory solution but integrate Google Maps and other useful things. However, I don't think I'll be able to get that deep into it. The world has no shortage of WinCE or Android based double-DIN units you could start with, but I'd have to drop $1,500 or more on decent CAN bus analyzer tools just to look at feasibility of interacting with the rest of the car.



Phaeton2 said:


> Shucks... Maybe both pumps are fried and J39 is junk. V11 is detected by the computer when disconnected (see below). Computer should be able to monitor if the relay is bad but not if the wiring is faulty, right? Would that rule out the ground theory? Guess the only way to tell is to meaure it with my meter for sure, but man this will be the 3rd time I've had to jack the car up and remove the wheel liner and front shield. Bummer.
> 
> After I disconnected the washer pump wiring on the one pump, I received the fault code "00156 - Control Circuit for Windshield Washer Pump 011 Open Circuit Intermittent" (see photo posted on 2-3-2014) . The fault code did not exist when the washer pump was connected. For this reason, the system is seeing the pump somehow. This is why I'm assuming all the wires are present and working.
> 
> Car was inside a heated garage (45 degrees-55 degrees) for about 8 hours before I tested the pump. It can't be frozen because fluid comes out of the pump outlet when I pull the hose off the pump (pumps also drained when tested prior and it was 20 degrees outside). I tested it by hooking up a 12 Volt car battery (my old left side AGM battery which is useless but charged to 12.5 Volts) to pin 1 and 2 of the pump (V11 per diagram). Negative went to pin 1 (where brown wire hooks up) and positive to pin 2 (where red green wire connects). Not sure why but if you look at the digarme pump V59 power is reversed (positive to pin 1 and negative to pin 2). Can you switch positive and negative on the pumps and not fry them? I got a little spark on the positive terminal when I first hooked it up and then no spark when testing a second and third time.


I am at a bit of a loss. If I'm parsing what you're saying correctly, you can't activate either of your pumps with battery +12V manually, and you also say you can't receive +12V on either wiring harness plug. Either I don't understand what you're saying, or you have two dead pumps _and_ one or two wiring faults.

Have you actually checked both motors, or just one? Have you actually checked both sets of wiring? Definitely still interested in checking for +12V from plug + to chassis ground when activated, and 0 Ohms from plug ground to chassis ground at all times.

I do see and agree that +/- are reversed for those motor's connectors. Is it possible they were each hooked up to the wrong motor, giving you no fluid because they ran backwards?

If you are completely certain the 00156 pump open-circuit DTC only appears with the motor disconnected, then its absence with the motor connected tends to validate the +12V and ground wiring and points instead toward a failed motor. When you tested the wiring, how did you try to activate the pump? If you tied down the lever and it was held on too long, the car might be smart enough to cut that off after a certain length of time. Can't say for sure as I've never tried to run it for very long. This could produce a false impression of a wiring problem.

By the way, Central Electronics owns the headlight washer relay and pump, so some of those un-decoded DTCs you have may well be relevant.



Phaeton2 said:


> This photo is taken from the engine compartment not the interior. I'm looking at the front of the wheel well below a tank (don't remember which one) on the right side (passenger side) of the vehicle (looking towards rear bumper). This is near the washer pump. I took the photo because I see 3 wires grounded or passed through (assume some are positive) the wheel well. 2 wires are on the same terminal. One terminal is not used. I was wondering if one of the wires is on the wrong terminal possibly causing my power issue with the washer pump.


In your case, you correctly identified 644 as the right place they should be grounding, but I don't know if you R&R'd that piece during your collision repair and harness splice. Test as described above. I might be concerned about correct placement of the ground if we were troubleshooting a data-communication issue, but for purposes of driving a motor, a good chassis ground is a good chassis ground, so I am not concerned so much about 644 itself except possibly to understand the splicing/tampering that was done.



Phaeton2 said:


> Those are being replaced, if I ever get the part (They are being professionally handled by the US Post Office, who is shiping the package everywhere except me). Part number "BKR6ECU" is straight off the barrel of the plug. It's not the "BKR6EQUA". Plugs have been changed at some time because the connector to the coils are broken. Looking at some photos of "BKR6ECU" the center of the plug doesn't protrude past the insulator. My photos was included more because of the white deposits which I understand shows wear.


I got basically nothing back from Google when searching for BKR6ECU, and there is no such plug according to NGK themselves. Where did you find pics?

Jason


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

As an aside, and I'm not trying to be a repetitive dick here, PLEASE go to Ross Tech and get a legitimate VCDS interface. HEX-USB+CAN recommended, KII-USB at a minimum. Do not go to eBay or an unauthorized reseller. They are fake clones from China and will not do what you need.

If you had a VCDS interface, you would:

1) Have working communication with Central Convenience after recoding your roof controller

2) Have a working rain/light sensor since you can now recode your roof controller

3) Know what faults are present in Central Convenience.

4) Know what faults are in Central Electronics.

5) Be able to troubleshoot your lighting problems, which are likely showing up in CC/CE.

6) Be able to troubleshoot your headlamp washer problem, which is likely showing up in CC/CE.

7) Make much better use of the time of Phaeton owners on this forum, who can help you if they have complete information.

8) Have complete support and label files for the Phaeton.

9) Have official support and updates from Ross Tech.

10) Be able to Auto Scan the entire car easily.

Jason


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

I've had another thought about your headlight washer problem. Were your headlights on when you tested for +12V? I never use the things, tried them today for probably the first time ever. It seems that the car is smart enough not to run the headlight washers unless you've held the stalk in for three seconds AND the headlights are on. Also, the pump will only engage for a couple seconds for each headlight.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

I didn't know that, so very German. I'm not sure if the headlight was on. I only checked one pump because I assumed they were wired in parallel. I checked the one which is attached to the relay (headlight pump) according to the diagram. I think I have all the information I need to troubleshoot the pumps. What I do know. I didn't have 12V on the headlight pump (my friend held the washer for more than 3 secs). The headlight pump is bad. The fuse on the windshield pump SD11 was blown. All other fuses are good. The computer detected when I unplugged the headlight washer pump. Don't know about the relay, but those are rare to go (pump not working unless the headlights are on may explain why I thought it was a relay). I bought 2 new pumps on ebay for a whooping $6.50 each and a relay for $7.00. I'm going to tear everything apart on Saturday. I'll post what I figure out so I can help others with similar issues. Oh and I missed on letter on the spark plug it's BKR6EOUP. It's a NGK "R" type. There is a BKR6EQUP but i'm pretty sure mine is "O"UP as that is what I read on the barrel. Regardless I don't care too much because I'm changing all of them. One other item, I'm curious about is if anyone knows how to get to the defrost fan wiring. I believe I have leaves in the defroster ductwork and I've read a vw dealer reversed the fan motor to blow the leaves out. I'm going to hook the fan up to an extra car battery that I have and let it run so I don't have to have the car running for the fan to work. I have a Bentley repair DVD on it's way so I'm hoping I'll need less help if the manual is decent. Someday I would like to get the Ross tech cable as well.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> I didn't know that, so very German.


Oh buddy, you just don't even know how very German it is. Not only does it wait for 3 seconds, it will only do one headlight at a time so you're not blinded at night.






Naturally this will complicate your +12V testing. The actuators to open the washers are completely separate from the pump itself, so it should be clear as day if you've successfully activated them separate from any pump motor or fluid flow issue. If you'd like to verify your pump manually with +12V, you can use the J523 infotainment display's Maintenance menu to extend both washer nozzles at once - use the option for adjusting the headlight aim. It's how you gain access to the adjustment screws.



Phaeton2 said:


> I'm not sure if the headlight was on. I only checked one pump because I assumed they were wired in parallel. I checked the one which is attached to the relay (headlight pump) according to the diagram. I think I have all the information I need to troubleshoot the pumps. What I do know.


Okay, now we're getting somewhere. This is why I couldn't make sense of your results. Definitely do your troubleshooting with the windshield pump. Leave the headlight stuff for later.



Phaeton2 said:


> I didn't have 12V on the headlight pump (my friend held the washer for more than 3 secs). The headlight pump is bad. The fuse on the windshield pump SD11 was blown. All other fuses are good. The computer detected when I unplugged the headlight washer pump. Don't know about the relay, but those are rare to go (pump not working unless the headlights are on may explain why I thought it was a relay). I bought 2 new pumps on ebay for a whooping $6.50 each and a relay for $7.00. I'm going to tear everything apart on Saturday. I'll post what I figure out so I can help others with similar issues.


Please do, I'm interested to see how this comes out.



Phaeton2 said:


> One other item, I'm curious about is if anyone knows how to get to the defrost fan wiring. I believe I have leaves in the defroster ductwork and I've read a vw dealer reversed the fan motor to blow the leaves out. I'm going to hook the fan up to an extra car battery that I have and let it run so I don't have to have the car running for the fan to work.


Do you have noises or something? Accessing the wiring would be something of an ordeal, but you can kind of see it looking straight down through the air flow flap (fresh air intake) dead center of the plenum area behind the engine. It would be a lot easier to just put a small vacuum hose down there directly than try to mess with the wiring.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

jyoung8607 said:


> Oh buddy, you just don't even know how very German it is.


I'm learning more every day I have the car...I knew it was the pinnacle of engineering when developed and still even relevant today compared to most cars introduced to the market. One item I never figured out was the button under the mirror?




jyoung8607 said:


> Do you have noises or something? Accessing the wiring would be something of an ordeal, but you can kind of see it looking straight down through the air flow flap (fresh air intake) dead center of the plenum area behind the engine. It would be a lot easier to just put a small vacuum hose down there directly than try to mess with the wiring.


I have noises when using the defroster. I never noticed it until the winter, no noises using the A/C. There are several posts on the subject but lack detail on how to excute the repair. I'm familar with the layout. There are good diagrams of the system in "Heating and Air Conditioning System Design and Function Techincal Service Training Self-Study Program". 










If you have access to the document, you'll see that there is not space to put a vacuum past the blower fan. Further, even if there was space it would be diffucult to suck up all the debris. I just found this parts diagram and it is helpful. There are two wire connectors in the inlet of the of the air intake. I thought one of those connectors was the fan but when I disconnected it the car started to run badly so that can't be it. With any repair, I strive to remove as few parts as possible because somehow I break something else in the process  Of course this not as urgent as my other problems which is why I haven't really brought this one up. I was really hoping it was one of the exposed connectors in the inlet. That would be Ez!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The button under the mirror toggles the auto-dimming. Not sure why it needs a button if it's automatic! Bloody Germans.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

invisiblewave said:


> TNot sure why it needs a button if it's automatic!


To let you turn the feature off if it is active when you don't want it - for example, if you are backing out of a parking space in an underground garage, with lighting in the laneways but darkness straight ahead in the parking space.

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Phaeton2 said:


> I have noises when using the defroster. I never noticed it until the winter, no noises using the A/C. There are several posts on the subject but lack detail on how to execute the repair.


I suggest that you set that problem off to one side for the time being (until warmer weather comes) - it is MURDER to do work anywhere on that air conditioning system intake. The whole process of disassembly, getting in there, etc. is fraught with peril, and there is a very high risk of causing more problems than you solve. For example, see the currently active discussion about wind noise, condensation, frost, etc within my car - and that started after an intake fan repair by a very skilled and conscientious Phaeton tech.

Here's the link: Windows Fogging.

Michael


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

*Success*

Great news to report. I've resolved all my major issues. The temperature sensor was a real pain to change. It was buried. It took me about 5 hours to change the sensor. Ill post a "how to" in a separate thread to help someone change this bad boy (This procedure is not covered in the Bentley manual). For reference, I've changed the same sensor on an audi a4 and it took 5 minutes! Also, it appears gas milage has significantly improved. I've only driven a few blocks and the instantaneous fuel consumption went from 6-8 mpg to 13-15 mpg. 

Washer pumps resolved. Both pumps were fried and I had a blown fuse as previously noted. One thing to be aware of is the pump design on the headlight washer and windshield washer are different. The headlight washer is larger in size and uses a different electrical plug design. I bought two replacements that matched the windshield washer design (not knowing they were different). I was able to temporarily use one of the replacements on the headlight to test and it did work but I broke the hose connector in the process likely due to the replacement not being OEM (The part tolerences where off as I had to file the plastic at the electrical connector to get the connector to fit). I'm not sure what the difference between the headlights and windshield design is but I'm guessing the headlights use less fluid so I don't recommend use a windshield pump as it may blow the nozzles off the headlight washers (as I've noticed from my old parts the nozzles are missing). FYI, I was able to measure 14 volts at the headlight connector but I was not able to measure any voltage on the windshield connector. Perhaps the computer is smart enough to cut voltage if it detects a faulty pump.

Also, cleared the light and rain sensor code with no other apparent issues. Lastly, I ran the fresh air blower in reverse to try to remove the crackling noise in the dash. It's real easy to do but it didn't suck any debris out of the system. Not sure if the noise are leaves or something loose. As Michael recommended, this one going to need to wait until warmer weather. I'll post a few photos on the thread that discuss running the fan in reverse in the event someone want to try this as it was successful for at least one owner.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> Great news to report. I've resolved all my major issues. The temperature sensor was a real pain to change. It was buried. It took me about 5 hours to change the sensor. Ill post a "how to" in a separate thread to help someone change this bad boy (This procedure is not covered in the Bentley manual). For reference, I've changed the same sensor on an audi a4 and it took 5 minutes! Also, it appears gas milage has significantly improved. I've only driven a few blocks and the instantaneous fuel consumption went from 6-8 mpg to 13-15 mpg.


Great news! :thumbup:



Phaeton2 said:


> Washer pumps resolved. Both pumps were fried and I had a blown fuse as previously noted.


Interesting. I wonder how you managed to have two dead pumps at the same time. I think you said these two pumps were both from your salvage washer reservoir? Perhaps it was a wreck that sat several winters in a boneyard with three-season fluid, and they were damaged by freeze-thaw cycles.



Phaeton2 said:


> One thing to be aware of is the pump design on the headlight washer and windshield washer are different. The headlight washer is larger in size and uses a different electrical plug design. I bought two replacements that matched the windshield washer design (not knowing they were different). I was able to temporarily use one of the replacements on the headlight to test and it did work but I broke the hose connector in the process likely due to the replacement not being OEM (The part tolerences where off as I had to file the plastic at the electrical connector to get the connector to fit). I'm not sure what the difference between the headlights and windshield design is but I'm guessing the headlights use less fluid so I don't recommend use a windshield pump as it may blow the nozzles off the headlight washers (as I've noticed from my old parts the nozzles are missing).


It's common to use different connectors for stuff like that so they can't be accidentally mixed up by assembly workers or repair technicians.

Re: the headlight washer pump, if anything I think it would put out higher pressure. It has to clean the headlight lenses without benefit of mechanical wiping action.



Phaeton2 said:


> FYI, I was able to measure 14 volts at the headlight connector but I was not able to measure any voltage on the windshield connector. Perhaps the computer is smart enough to cut voltage if it detects a faulty pump.


There is no fuse protection between J400 and V59, so it's very possible some other safeguard was designed in.



Phaeton2 said:


> Also, cleared the light and rain sensor code with no other apparent issues.


Did you have to recode your roof electronics controller for the code to stay away?

Do your automatic headlights and automatic wipers work?



Phaeton2 said:


> Lastly, I ran the fresh air blower in reverse to try to remove the crackling noise in the dash. It's real easy to do but it didn't suck any debris out of the system. Not sure if the noise are leaves or something loose. As Michael recommended, this one going to need to wait until warmer weather. I'll post a few photos on the thread that discuss running the fan in reverse in the event someone want to try this as it was successful for at least one owner.


I'm assuming this was just disconnecting the resistor pack, #16 in your diagram, and applying power in reverse?

Not sure what else to recommend without hearing the noises. The recirculation flap and motor can supposedly be removed from the engine compartment side of things, by removing the air flow flap assembly and blower motor first, but I have not tried it and the repair manual says it is difficult. This is the same repair manual that says you can do rear O2 sensors on the W12 without removing the engine, so when the repair manual says something is difficult, you are in for a very special time.

Before further disassembly, try this: Go buy some thin flexible tubing at the hardware store (think aquarium air line, maybe slightly bigger). Rig that on the end of your house/shop vacuum hose with some duct tape, perhaps with a little bypass hole open so you don't collapse the thin tube or overheat the motor. In the cabin, snake that tube down into the defrost vents along the windshield and see if you can dislodge or pull up anything.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

jyoung8607 said:


> Did you have to recode your roof electronics controller for the code to stay away?
> 
> Do your automatic headlights and automatic wipers work?


I recoded the controller as previously directed. I haven't checked the function. How do the automatic wipers work?



jyoung8607 said:


> I'm assuming this was just disconnecting the resistor pack, #16 in your diagram, and applying power in reverse?


 No, I disconnected the motor, which is the connector adjacent to #16. I only wanted to send power to the blower motor, nothing else. If you look into the intake plenum below the hood, you will see two connectors. The connector on the left side of the car (driver side) is the connector to the motor (if your looking toward the rear of the car it will be the one on your right). The blower connector has only two wires while the resistor pack connector has more than two wires. You'll see in the diagram the wiring to the blower motor goes between the two squirel cages. Hook power to this side of the connector (not the other side as you will send power in the wrong direction and possibly burn something up). You can check to make sure you have the correct wires by disconnecting the blower motor while in operation. The motor should turn off when the defrost button is activated. I hooked the blower motor up to a seperate 12V battery and did not use any of the vehicles batteries so they didn't get drained.


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