# Sheared crankshaft keyway? (suspected timing belt skip)



## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

Hi I've just collected my first Golf so I have no idea if this is the right place to post but I need some advice from the community! It's a 1994 1.8 GL and was driving home fine then lost power and died. Now it won't start again but everything I can think of checking seems fine. plugs and leads were replaced last year though I'm told they weren't new replacements (so why replace them? idiot!) Still, not currently a suspect as the engine does attempt to fire occasionally but it seems to me the timing is progressively off...

When the ignition is turned now everything does what it should do and all belts move as they should but there is usually slight misfiring and occasionally the attempt to fire. My first thought was that I'd lost teeth on the timing belt causing the timing to advance a little more with each and every rotation. Obviously this would mean that occasionally the valves would almost line up but not for long enough for successful ignition.

Anyhow I pretty much exhausted this theory when I took off the top timing cover and checked the whole of the belt (turning the engine on the ignition) tensioner seemed fine too and there was no visible slipping... So I tried to take off the bottom timing cover to attempt alignment by timing marks. Apparently the internet tells me the mark should already be visible on the oputermost crank pulley but I'll be damned if I can see it. Camshaft is clear as day but can't see a spot on the crank...

Anyway I tried recmoval before the internet told me this so I had the engine in gear with the brakes hard on and tried to loosen off the crank pulley so I could remove the lower timing belt cover and view the whole belt together. Turns out though I can turn the crank pulley through 360+degrees any which way I want without it having any effect on the drivetrain... Haven't checked to see if the pistons are moving yet but I have a hunch they aren't. 

Funny thing is, baffled by this anomaly I turned the key with the car still in gear and it jumped so clearly turning the crank should have been felt in the gearbox. I've already seen the pulleys and cambelt turning perfectly well every time I turn the car over so the starter motor is still connected to the flywheel-crank-pulley-belt-cam but it doesn't work in reverse... Also by making the car jump I can rule out any problems with the clutch or gearbox and the amount of effort required to turn the pulley whilst in gear definitely doesn't amount to a slipping friction plate...

So my best guess currently is that when I turn the crank pulley it's not turning the crank or moving the pistons but the belt is still moving the cam and such. Question is, was this engine safe? Or will my valves and piston heads all be knackered if this is the case? And bigger question is, does anyone here have a similar experience or better suggestion as to what may be the cause? 

Another thing I don't understand about the broken keyway theory is that surely if the keyway WAS broken then the crank pulley just wouldn't turn at all... Why would it still turn if the keyway is broken? But if the keyway isn't broken why is it I seem to have lost my timing?!

Help me please I'm so con-bloody-fused!!!


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

Wow, this is the second topic about a problem like this in a Month, must be a virus or something. If I understand your book correctly, with a wrench on the crankshaft bolt, you can rotate the v-belt pulley and the timing belt, but the crankshaft itself is not rotating? You do know that that bolt holds the timing belt gear only on, and does not have to be touched to remove the pulley, but that's not so important now. If the above is true, then you do have to remove the pulley and cover to be 100% sure. It is possible the crankshaft bolt walked out and the timing belt gear slipped off enough to no longer move with the crankshaft, but that I think would make some bad noise and you would see a wobble while you tried to rotate the engine by hand. If it is determined 100% that the crankshaft is not turning when the gear is turned then it would be a good bet the key broke. Sometimes there is enough friction with the broken piece and the torque of the bolt to still cause the belt to be driven when the starter spins the crankshaft. The crankshaft gear will not be easy to remove if the key has broken as you will have to find some way to hold the gear still while breaking the bolt free.


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

There are four hex head (Allen) cap screws that hold the accessory pulley to the timing belt pulley. Those four need to be removed to remove the accessory pulley and lower timing belt cover.

Turning the engine over with the starter (which engages the flywheel) will cause the crank and transmission to move but perhaps not the timing belt itself. 

I have seen timing belts that had the teeth scraped off in one area. When that area got to the crank TB pulley where the belt turns on fewer teeth due to the diameter of the pulley the belt would simply stay there as there were no teeth to move the belt. With the lower TB cover on the problem couldn't be seen it was also hard to see with the cover off. The pulley would turn (the crankshaft) and the belt would not move.

People tend to scrimp on timing belt replacement as long as the car runs. If you have the job done replacement is somewhat expensive. If you supply the labor the parts will run $30-40. Also timing belts will deteriorate and take a "set" if the engine is not turned over for extended periods. FR


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## SkeeterVR6 (Mar 12, 2000)

Best way to check your timing is to pop the trans. flywheel inspection cover (green) and make sure you're aligned at the flywheel. You should have a -0- on the flywheel. Line that up so that the *middle* of the -0- is lined up with the bottom (forward to the vehicle) part of the inspection hole (you should see half of the -0-), then check your cam belt pulley timing marks. Some of the older crank pulleys have a rubber mount and the alignment mark can move over time. 

Also, pop the distributor cap and see if the rotor button contact is lined up with the small notch on the back of the distributor (just make sure you're looking straight down at the distributor). If that's all in time, check your coil..I've seen plenty of those give a weak spark. 

Hope this helps.


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

Thanks for the responses guys, seems to be confirming what had originally been suggested to me!

Waterwheels, yes I was initially attempting to remove the central bolt as at the time I didn't realise it was the four hex bolts that I wanted off! Anyway that is as you said pretty immaterial for the symptoms I have. It is certainly the case that the starter motor/flywheel combo when turning the ignition is reaching the crank pulley and moving the cams. Just isn't working in reverse so something is missing between the flywheel and crank pulley as suggested. There was no horrible noise (apparently, I wasn't driving) at the time of the breakdown and there have been none since then when I've tried to turn it over so can't be crankshaft unless I'm VERY unlucky!

So leaves me with checking the keyway I think... When I go back to the car I'll stick a screwdriver or something into the no.1 piston and see if turning the pulley causes it to rise or fall. If it doesn't then I'll whip off the pulley and take a look at the end of the crank and such. 

So the question now is how do I get those allen bolts off without a good way to brace the pulley???

Also I ask again, is this a safe engine or will my valves be knackered from it being turned over with bad timing?

And for bonus points, if my power windows aren't working and the battery is draining when the car is not being used do I need to replace the ECU that controls the conveniences and if so what is it called/where is it located?

Thanks again for the help guys!


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

Before I take the allen bolts off the crank accessory pulley I practice cussing for a couple of days. While cussing I spray PB Blaster on the bolts. Clean out the bolts real good with a straightened paper clip or wire and use a good hex wrench. I like a wrench that fits on a ratchet but have used the traditional allen wrench sometimes with a pipe cheater. Tap the wrench fully into the bolt head and then turn carefully to avoid stripping the inside of the bolt head. Usually I like to remove the bolts with the belt(s) still on it so it doesn't turn. Alternatively I have used two wrenches at the same time, or a strap wrench, or blocking to hold the pulley in place while I turn the wrench. If the bolt head strips out -- removal methods include driving in a triple square wrench, using vise grips to turn the outside of the bolt head, and drilling out the bolt head. Once the head is drilled out the threaded part usually just turns out by hand. The bolts usually give a good snap when the break loose. So don't be surprised by that snap.

The 8V engine is a non-interference engine. If I were you I would drop the $40 or so and put a new Timing Belt and idler on the engine while I was working on it. It also makes sense to replace any additional belts at the same time. 

You will have to find the battery drain -- the usual way is with an ammeter (multimeter) while checking each circuit by pulling the fuse to see when the drain stops. A bad voltage regulator in your alternator can also cause a drain -- the VR is easily replaceable. Sometimes the diodes go bad and the alternator drains the battery. Since the power windows don't work I would also suspect that circuit. Pull the power window fuse and see if the drain stops. FR


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

Thanks FR, good news on the valves anyway, don't fancy a head rebuild on a car I bought for making a quick buck lol

If I'm looking for a broken keyway can I just remove the central bolt and remove the timing belt gear as well as the external pulleys or is there some dastardly piece of engineering that stops that from working? The way I understand it, the 4 allens hold the pulleys onto the gear and the central bolt holds the gear onto the crankshaft with the lower timing cover sandwiched in between the two. If that's the case wouldn't removing the central bolt allow for removal of all of the above?

Another new query, how come the central bolt spins without any resistance from the crankshaft? Maybe I'm wrong and it doesn't actually connect to the crank but that's what I'm assuming... If it does though, wouldn't the fact it's spinning mean I have no thread left?


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

Yes, you *should* be able to remove things that way. But it would seem you have a bit of a dilemma on your hands. If the threads in the crankshaft are stripped or the key is broken, just how do you hold things to remove the bolt? If installed correctly, that bolt was torqued to something like 80ft/lb or more, I believe more but have no book handy. In a normal world you would block the flywheel to keep things from turning while breaking that bolt free, but it seems in this case that will not work. I doubt that any strap-wrench will hold the pulley enough to remove the bolt, and pipe wrenches may come that large but who has one? And if you did locate a pipe wrench that big, what shape would the pulley be in when you're finished? 

The thread part should be somewhat easy to figure out. Can you turn the bolt in reverse? If it were *just* a stripped bolt then I doubt the gear/belt would turn, the bolt would just spin. Then there is the "both are bad" option, the bolt is stripped and the key is broken, that would be just dandy. This could be lots of fun.


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

This IS lots of fun!

Time for a drastic rethink...

Took the plug out of no.1 and stuck a wooden spoon in there. With the car in gear and parking break engaged I turned the engine via the crank nut. No.1 piston moves...

Still convinced the crank is in one piece so tried again at no.4 with same result... But still there was no effort made at the wheels to move the car.

So now suddenly the key and bolt both seem fine as I'm turning the whole crankshaft and belts and cam assembly all via this one bolt. It's effects travel all the way along to cylinder 4 but how about the flywheel? 

Had trouble here as I cannot find the flywheel inspection hatch mentioned (I think) the hole I've found has a simple plastic plug about 15mm in diameter and is sat smack bang on top of the gearbox in plain view. Trouble is I can only see what I believe to be the clutch plate through this hole. No flywheel and therefore no markings no help me assess timing...

Regardless I tried turning the engine again from the crank and as predicted (and hoped) the clutchplate turned with it. I tried this with the car both in and out of gear and both times the flywheel was turning so I'm guessing the clutch/ friction plate are probably on the way out and are slipping when I turn it by hand. Still very unusual that turning the engine over electronically does engage the gearbox but by hand I've had no luck with getting the movement transferred to the drivetrain. Maybe it's a torque thing???

[In hindsight I should've tried turning the crank with the car in gear but parking break off. That may have given me more of a chance to move the car if it's a slipping clutch but still not convinced by that theory either way. May try it next time I go out but won't be till a lot later in the day now...]

So here's where I am now...

I don't think the belt is at fault as it seems in good condition with all of its teeth. The same can be said for the camshaft gear but I can't confirm the crank gear is intact. Either way I imagine it's pretty unlikely for either one of these to lose teeth but it remains a slight possibility...

I'm 99% convinced that the key is NOT broken. What with the fact that turning the engine over on the starter motor turns the pulley regardless of the load provided by the 3 belts attached to it I'm not sure a broken key would allow for that. Also convinced that the bolt is not stripped or the whole assembly (pulleys, gear and timing cover) should be fairly easily removed due to having nothing to hold it onto the crankshaft. Plus if the bolt was stripped it should spin freely without turning the pulley, belt or crankshaft and that's not the case...

The clutch is slipping when turned by hand but engaging when turned by the starter motor. This is fact (unless someone can convince me that I'm not looking at the clutchplate through this inspection hole?) All I can attribute this to is the torque difference between a slow ratchet turn of the crank shaft to a fast and direct engagement of the starter motor to flywheel. (plus I had the handbrake on which I shouldn't have done doh!)

I still CANNOT check timing... I can see the marks for the distributor rotor arm (small line on the dizzy housing under the cap? Seems to be pointing at the HT lead for cylinder 2 when it's timed to this mark which seems odd to me. Would've expected it to fire on no.1 when the dizzy is aligned to this point... Please correct me if it should be. Current firing order IS 1,3,4,2 which I'm pretty sure is correct for all straight 4s but the engine could have been re-timed in the past with the wrong cylinder used in TDC I think. 

I can also see the timing mark on the cam shaft gear and it does NOT line up with it's mark when the dizzy lines up with its own... I still can't see the mark on the main crank pulley so that's a problem but what I'm essentially left with is an engine which turns from the pulley with enough force to make the clutch slip but seems to have lost it's timing.

Here's my thoughts...

What if the key HAS broken but it has not sheared in the expected place? Assume that the fracture was 60/40 or an uneven break so that one part of the key is protruding further than it should be. Could this cause it to become wedged between the crankshaft and the gear? It would mean the crank and camshaft timing marks would still be aligned but they would not sit correctly when compared to the dizzy or flywheel marks... (would appreciate any further info on flywheel inspection hole as mentioned above I can't find it!!!) It would also mean that when the engine is turned by the starter motor there would probably be progressive slip by the crankshaft inside the crank gear. This would mean the timing would be progressively retarded causing the observed result as witnessed already. ie. nothing, nothing, backfire, backfire, fire, fire, backfire, backfire, nothing, nothing, etc.

That's my current prognopsis anyway, would appreciate some more feedback!!!


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

1. Take your time and don't panic. Only you know what is actually happening on the car. Concentrate on the timing marks. If they are off where they should be you will have to retime the car at a minimum. I also recommend that the timing belt and idler be replaced if you are going to have to reset the timing. 

2. Remove the whole inspection plug from the hole not just the small center plug that pulls out. The larger plug screws in and out. You can use various items to unscrew the plug. I have used channel locks, or a block of wood sized to fit but a lug nut wrench I have from an air cooled VW seems to be the tool of choice. It fits fight down in the opening and unscrews the plugs real nicely. Then you will be able to see more of the flywheel. You will need to do that to check timing. The flywheel rotates 360* twice during a complete engine cycle. Therefore #1 piston also reaches TDC twice.

3. You need to assess the bolt that holds the timing pulley on the crankshaft. It should not be moving without the crankshaft turning. 

4. You need to assure that the engine is timed correctly. It may have jumped time.

5. It IS possible that a key would not shear completely just enough to offset the timing. FR


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

Just had a go at the plug but not got anything that'll do the job nice 'n easy so am resorting to the only available alternative I can think of which is the wooden block approach! Just made up the first attempt of a tool but on my own with my son again now so can't go back out to the car to try it yet 

The bolt on the crankshaft is DEFINITELY not stripped as when said bolt is turned the crank and clutch plate also move, even when the parking brake is on with all that extra resistance! I've also just given it a turn with the handbrake off and the car rolled so the clutch and friction plate are fine. Was just scaring myself earlier 

Still need to go back to the car and try out my new tool to reveal the timing mark on the flywheel. What does it look like? Line, dot, number, letter? And where does it line up to? Let me also double check the mark in the dizzy cap, it's the small line top righ as you look down on it from the front. Points towards the passengers wingmirror if you draw a line there? cam mark is easy and still can't see the crank one but don't think there's likely to be any belt slip so hopefully if I can get the cam, dizzy and flywheel all lined up that should do the trick. Of course if the key is sheared and stuck at the wrong position I won't be able to line up the opposite ends of the engine so that's the result I'm looking for 

Thanks for the help guys, getting there slowly!

As an additional query how would I go about repairing my drivers door lock? The whole barrel has come out but there's no obvious damage and the mechanism still works. There is a small hoop on the innermost end of the barrel assembly, does this attach to something inside? I'm guessing I just need to take off the interior door trim and take a look. Maybe it'll be obvious from there


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

You can also use channel locks on the transmission hole plug. You just have to squeeze them tight and grab the outside of the plug. Righty tighty-lefty loosey. My first plug removal "tool" was made out of oak and it worked well enough. Air cooled VW's came with a combination wrench -- one end was for the wheel lug nuts and the other end was for the fan/alternator drive belt -- one day I found out that the wrench which was in a box of air cooled leftovers fit well in the hole and never used anything else after that. I found one plug that was super glued in or something. I removed that one with a chisel and then got a junkyard replacement. Most of the plugs have come out easily for me. 

You will be looking for a O cast into the flywheel. There is also a pointer that points down from the transmission case toward the flywheel.

You will have to remove the door card to access the rear of the door lock to diagnose the problem there. I have never had the lock cylinder come out of the door as you describe. FR


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

TheMajic86GTI said:


> 1. Set flywheel to tdc(remove the plug on tranny to see better). V should be pointing to dot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here are the steps...
http://www.oneilcastro.com/A2Bentley/GE01/ch4.2.html


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

Awesome thanks guys that'll help loads!!! Should be able to get out and take a look shortly so will post an update when I return!!!


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

Ok now I'm just plain baffled so here are a few images to aid with diagnosis... 
EDIT : images not working so replaced with links

Big problem now is that my flywheel and distributor timing marks aren't even close to lining up. Also the only mark on the flywheel I could find is a line which has been cut into it. The only feature I can see around the whole circumference of the flywheel so this must be the mark but no circle as shown above...

Here is a pic of the timed up flywheel and one of how far out the dizzy is. All quality is awful, sorry about that!
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=6364458&l=737d35ccc8&id=626026762
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=6364456&l=6ed65db5f0&id=626026762

The red lines on the top one are just to emphasise how the timing is lined up as the image is far from clear. In the bottom image you can see the direction the rotor arm is facing and to the top right in the red circle is the mark it should be pointing to when correctly timed.

These pics were taken at the same time so clearly there is a big timing issue but I don't understand how. Below are some even more concerning images that show the camshaft is out too!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=6364459&l=999a412ca9&id=626026762
--------REVELATION--------
Ok ignore all these circles as I just rechecked the last post with the diagrams and I've been looking at the markings on the front of the cam gear not the back! Just been out to the car and turned the engine so this dot is in position and turns out I was exactly one revolution of the crank away from good timing. With the dot on the rear of the cam gear in position as shown above the flywheel is also timed correctly (like the picture I showed above) and the rotor arm has moved through 180degrees of course. This means that the only thing not timed correctly (bearing in mind I'm almost certain the cam and crank will still be paired correctly due to the lack of and indication of slipping or belt damage) is the rotor arm!!! 

It seems to be almost exactly 1 cylinder out if you look at the picture. Like 90degrees out. If you remember earlier I said I thought it was odd that this timing mark for the rotor didn't point to the lead for no.1 cylinder. Maybe the timing in the rotor has been rotated which would explain why when the rest of the engine is correctly timed the rotor is sat 90degrees out as the cables are in the correct sequence but starting in a different place. So 1,3,4,2 is now 3,4,2,1 or 2,1,4,3 I don't know which. Didn't check! I'm thinking it's pretty bloody unlikely that the rotor arm is going to be out of timing with the flywheel unless it was done deliberately though. How could it be? And why exactly 90degrees? Exactly one cylinder?

But then why won't this bloody car start!!! All of the things that led me to believe the key was broken have turned up nothing : rotating the pulley doesn't turn the transmission - turns out though it does turn the whole engine and flywheel but the clutch is slipping! Likewise my thoughts that timing is out have now been blown to pieces - all the timing marks line up except the rotor arm which is exactly one cylinder out of place. must be deliberate right?

But I have a new battery, plenty of fuel and drove 60 miles before it broke down. Now what?!?!

Here is my key barrel by the way  
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=6364460&l=69bc3add3b&id=626026762


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

It is possible that the distributor has moved. That is possible if it is not clamped down properly. The distributor has a clamp at the bottom that holds it from turning. See if you can turn the distributor body by hand. If not take the bolt loose and then align the rotor and the timing line on the distributor body. Then check that the spark plug wires go to the proper plugs 1-3-4-2 -- the distributor rotates clockwise. FR


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

Thanks FR will try this tomorrow but I'm reluctant to think it'll be that simple after all this trouble!!! Will update when I know more...


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

Also just to be sure the line on the flywheel is TDC remove #1 spark plug and verify that #1 piston is at the top......


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

That's a good idea. how far down should it be when it's at TDC? The best instrument I have for this test is a wooden spoon which I used last time  Or is there a chance I might be able to see it? Or check from the valve position as I have rocker cover off so should see both valves fully closed at TDC right?


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

I guess I was assuming that you would set the engine at TDC with all of the timing marks except for the distributor aligned before setting the distributor. Thanks TheMajic86GTI!! Be careful about TDC because the piston goes to TDC twice during one engine cycle. If the valve cover is off the cam lobes for #1 will be pointing upward like bunny ears. The mark on the inside of the camshaft pulley will align just above the top edge of cylinder head next to the pulley. FR


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

Yeah thanks FR that's how it should look now technically! I haven't been back to it since I got it all timed up so both valves on #1 should be fully closed. Will check when I go back to it, line up the dizzy then give it a try. Still not convinced though! What is it that turns the distributor on this engine? What's it connected to?


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

Munty said:


> ! What is it that turns the distributor on this engine? What's it connected to?


The intermediate shaft....middle pulley thats offset to the right in the timing belt. Heres a 16v cutaway(block is the same) pic to give u the idea. I added where the dizzy goes on the 8v.....lol


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

Thanks Majic that makes sense! Just checked the gear that runs it from the timing belt but can't see it too well as bottom cover is still on. Seems fine though so not sure how likely it would've been to slip to be honest...

Anyway I've taken the clamp of the dizzy assembly to set it to the correct timing as it seems very strange that it's not there already. I guess if I sdet it back to it's original mark and the engine runs then it must have been a broken tooth or loose belt so I can deal with it then. Still not 100% convinced that's what I'll find though... 

Anyway, after removing the bracket the housing doesn't want to go anywhere. I'm guessing the whole unit lifts upwards out of the block right? Does a shaft come out with it or what? Do I need to disconnect anything else before it will be free? Does it just need a bit of brute force???

And finally just to double check so I put everything back together properly... The cam timing mark is on the top of the cylinder head at the front of the car. The flywheel timing mark is also lined up with the arrow. The crank is certainly correctly timed with relation to both of the above as the valves on #1 are both fully closed (bunny ears lol) So I figure all I need to do is retime the distributor to it's correct position. Where should that be when I rebuild? Is it bang on the little mark in the image I showed earlier on or a tiny bit after as mentioned previously? I don't want to do this more times than I have to so would rather get it bang on first time!!!


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

It is not unusual for the distributor body to be frozen in place. I recommend penetrant for a few days.
Then try to turn the distributor. I've had some that have been terribly stuck in place. The body should turn in the hole in the block. Since it is frozen in place have you checked the wires to see if they go to the correct plugs? #1 cylinder on the distributor cap should point to the block -- somewhat towards the block/transmission case joint. Then it should be cylinders three, four and two clockwise around the distributor cap. FR


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

That's the trouble, I realised quite a while ago that the leads aren't in the right location.... But then the timing is out too so I wondered if maybe it had been deliberately timed to a different position and that this is the way it was set even before the car stalled.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...0&id=626026762

In this image the engine is at the top and bumper at the bottom. #1 lead is at the bottom right corner of the image. #3 is bottom left, #4 is top left and #2 is top right where #1 should be. So technically the whole sequence is one out by being too far clockwise which is strange because when correctly timed up the rotor arm is one out counter-clockwise... So as things are now the rotor is 180degrees out from #1 and 90degrees out from the mark (marked in the above image by the red circle) If I'm right with all that then it MUST have slipped somewhere along the line because there is absolutely no way that that engine would fire if the rotor arm is sparking on the wrong cylinder...

So just to be absolutely 100% clear, with my other timing marks all lined up; the rotor arm should be pointing to the transmission (the small red c ircle in that image) and the lead exiting the dizzy cap from a similar position should go to #1?


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

Still not quite sure about how I'm meant to turn this rotor without moving everything else... Don't want to force anything and it seems to me that if I start moving the actual distributor housing then my timing mark will be moving too. I just want to be able to turn the rotor arm independently of the rest of the engine. Can I try to turn it from the pulley if I can do so without moving the belt? Maybe loosen it off slightly so the dizzy gear can turn without engaging the belt? Really need this car working and I don't know how to turn this rotor without buggering something up.


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

Hold the phone... Problem solved I think... Need confirmation though and a replacement part to boot!!!

Just gone back to the car now after posting that last reply and tried to turn the rotor arm. Suprise suprise it had almost 90degrees of play in it! I lifted it up and it came off with a little encouragement but the internals have melted and shattered both at the same time by the looks of it! It's clearly got very hot for some reason and it looks like that's caused the plastic key that holds it at the correct alignment has melted enough to come away from the side of the rotor arm interior.The melted plastic has partly run out of the bottom of the central hole and solidified in a very smooth 'waxy' looking way and it seems to have also created a thin and brittle coating of what would have been the distributor pin (from the shaft) which has covered the small recess inside the rotor arm but not filled it in. Very odd...

The only question I need answering now to fix this car now though is this...

When viewed from beneath, which way should the sloped locating key inside the rotor arm be facing? If my hunch is correct and it should be on the same side of the arm as the metal contact outside then that's my problem because mine is exactly 90 degrees out which accounts for the fact it was 90 degrees off its timing mark...

Now please somebody go and look at your rotor arm and tell me what I need to know! This is the best I've felt about this car since I bought the bugger!!!


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

the groove in the shaft should be pointing the same direction as the rotor.


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

Glegor said:


> the groove in the shaft should be pointing the same direction as the rotor.


Friggin bingo! That's what this whole debackle was about then! Nothing wrong with the puleys or the clutch or the belt or anything like that! Just need a new bloody rotor arm!!! What a joke... Will grab one tomorrow and see if it starts up once that's on. Then I need to get hold of a new handle for the glove box and figure out why my leccy windows don't work. Will check fuses first then take a look at the ecu. Can anyone tell me where the ecu is that controls them though???

Wish me luck


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

Good find! I have not seen anything like that on a water cooled VW. 

As for your windows -- there are usually two fuses -- one for the power to the relay and a 30 Amp fuse mounted above the fuse and relay panel that protects the actual wiring to power the motors. Be sure to locate both fuses -- failing that you can check each fuse of the fuse and relay panel and look for the 30 Amp fuse in a holder above the panel along with some relays. The window relay is also above the panel in an "add on" relay holder. Other than that there is no "Brain" per-se. 

All there is are two relays (10 Amp and 30 Amp) and the window relay. The switches reverse polarity up or down and tht makes the motors reverse direction. Pretty simple. NOTE: There is also usually a power window lock out switch on the driver's door. Be sure that is set to let the windows operate. FR


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

Maybe the guy that sold me the car has just got the lock set then as the drivers window is the only one that currently works!!! Will take a look shortly, thanks FR.

Anyway reason I asked about an ECU was because someone suggested that they had the same problem with the battery draining and power windows not working. Their solution was the ECU but they hadn't actually done anything about it so guess they were just spitballing  Will check across the fuses and such but need to beg, borrow or steal a tool first.

Just sent the little lady out to collect the new rotor arm and here are pics of the old one showing the melt. Can't see how bad the damage is inside as I used a badly lit webcam but still. That's all that was wrong with this car I think! I hope :s

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=6416807&l=72ec20735e&id=626026762
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=6416808&l=0d1c99e58e&id=626026762

Another query... I need a new keyfob to finish this job off and not sure where to get one the right size as I already have the circuitboard here. This is an image of it below. If anyone knows a similarly shaped fob I'd love to hear about it 

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=6416809&l=898e044237&id=626026762

It's from JR alarms if anyone here happens to be an expert but it's probably just a small uk company anyway so doubt anyone will recognise the name


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

SOLVED!

So here's the solution... At some point this car was worked on by a gash mechanic (no not me) The rotor arm has clearly overheated at some point in the past and slipped considerably because even after replacing the rotor arm the lead timing was still out by one. That suggests to me that at some point the rotor has shifted and the mechanic has, instead of rectifying the problem, simply rotated the leads through 90degrees so that the vehicle could run again. 

So basically after all the mesing around I've done with it, all that was needed was a new rotor arm and replacing the HT leads in their correct order! Gotta love it


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## Munty (Aug 28, 2010)

Ok so onto other things, looks like I now have a fairly straight car (touch wood here) The problem with the windows (and the sunroof incidentally) is not that they don't work as such but the motors seem to be severely underpowered with possible breaking in some doors. Drivers side is pretty much fine but the others are very weak so I think it'll need the door cards taking out to get a good look. Wouldn't be surprised if there's something visually wrong at the source with these as one of the motors was running very noisily without moving the window so something not right... Are there any common faults with Mk3s for things like this? Motors, runners, mounts, anything?


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