# MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone....



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

Here are a few pics of our prototype MKIV vr6 car, I drove it today, it pulls hard and drives like stock, I was very impressed. Here are a few pics of the engine bay. I had to ask my friends from Black Forest Industries host these for me, our internet guy is not here today. 









[email protected]



_Modified by Rippinralf at 1:05 PM 5-3-2006_


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## XXX2000VR6XXX (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Rippinralf)*

well well ... looks like the MK4 kit is almost ready ... I'm saving for this ... keep us posted


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## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (XXX2000VR6XXX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *XXX2000VR6XXX* »_well well ... looks like the MK4 kit is almost ready ... I'm saving for this ... keep us posted

Will do boss


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Rippinralf)*

Looks good Boss Hawg


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## StreetRyda (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Rippinralf)*

Couples of questions:
Are they using stock injector
What about software are they going with C2
What does it put out?
Stock compression?



_Modified by StreetRyda at 3:20 PM 8-20-2005_


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## Mr Ginzo (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (StreetRyda)*

man i've been waiting for this for awhile, any idea on pricing? seems like it should be a soild kit. (word of mouth). Has the product been dyno'd yet?



_Modified by Mr Ginzo at 7:29 AM 2-13-2006_


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## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Rippinralf)*

Looks crowded in there!


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## bigbumpmike (Aug 26, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Rippinralf)*

looks good. I defently be saving for this one once my suspension is where I want it so the car can handle the power. Did you have to modify the coolent lines near the throttle body? Also now curious as what is in the stage one.


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## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (bigbumpmike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bigbumpmike* »_looks good. I defently be saving for this one once my suspension is where I want it so the car can handle the power. Did you have to modify the coolent lines near the throttle body? Also now curious as what is in the stage one.

Word from the techs is - "not a problem" you shouldnt have to mod the coolant lines for the T body. A simple bolt on is what we're going for.


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## 2ohgti (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Rippinralf)*

nice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i know a lot of mkiv people have been wanting this http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## corpsedub (Aug 3, 2001)

bump. interested, pending price of course.


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## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (corpsedub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *corpsedub* »_bump. interested, pending price of course.









Still working on that







it should be reasonable though


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## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Rippinralf)*









3-4 more weeks, and we'll hopefully be ready to ship these out


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## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Rippinralf)*

Does kinetic offer a vag-com tuning option for a turbo vr6 where you can "test" out a prewritten program and purchase it to be downloaded onto your vehicle's ECU? I know that giac and/or apr have this option for the 1.8t and it should definitely be an option for the VR6 as well, but apr did not seem too interested in ECU tuning for turbo VRs.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (dmiller9254)*

Looks great. Well, except for that ugly K&N filter sticking up there. Any chance of getting that down closer to the grill or wheel well? Maybe if folks used one of those small Braille brand batteries, you could fit a CAI type tube in there...

Give us prices soon, cause there is a sale for VF- stage 2 full kits for $4500! But if the kinetic kit can beat 280HP for less cash than the VF, I'll hold out...


_Modified by phatvw at 4:33 PM 9-8-2005_


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_Does kinetic offer a vag-com tuning option for a turbo vr6 where you can "test" out a prewritten program and purchase it to be downloaded onto your vehicle's ECU? I know that giac and/or apr have this option for the 1.8t and it should definitely be an option for the VR6 as well,

This option is only available on newer 1.8t (2002+?), its not as simple as deciding to offer it, the ecu has to be compatible with port tuning.


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## Steveodeluxe (Mar 26, 2004)

price me


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## gti'n_red (May 27, 2004)

*Re: (Steveodeluxe)*

me want too!!!


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## JamesGti1.8T (Feb 3, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Rippinralf)*

so when is it ready, i really need that mk4 downpipe!!!


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (StreetRyda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StreetRyda* »_Couples of questions:
What about software are they going with C2


C2Motorsports has supplied the software for the MKIV development car...and hopefully, upon final approval from Kinetic, we will be supplying the software in their production kits.
chris
C2


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## Mr Ginzo (Dec 4, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_C2Motorsports has supplied the software for the MKIV development car...and hopefully, upon final approval from Kinetic, we will be supplying the software in their production kits.
chris
C2

i hope so, i've heard only good things coming from C2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Pimpalicious316 (Apr 7, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Mr Ginzo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr Ginzo* »_i hope so, i've heard only good things coming from C2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

and you will only ever here good things. absolutly GREAT company. <3 chris








~Andrew


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## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

I can't wait fot this to be available...I will be buying one!


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## darkVR6 (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*

This ready yet? ETA on this anyone?


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## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (darkVR6)*

Also curious to see where they are at with this.


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## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

chances and benfits from moving that intake are slim to none. The intercooler(if available) will do most of the cooling anyways. PLus if you'll notice there not much room since the frame is so large on the mk4's.
Nice job on the kit...now just try to remember the tech that is stuck working on it


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## XXX2000VR6XXX (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Rippinralf)*

... is this kit going to be on sale soon


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (XXX2000VR6XXX)*

Before the holiday season please!


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## mk2vrooom (Oct 15, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (phatvw)*

cool u guys finally did this...my boy kenny used the DP and manifold from the mk3 kit quite a while ago though...


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## VR6_00Jetta (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Rippinralf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rippinralf* »_








3-4 more weeks, and we'll hopefully be ready to ship these out









Yo, Clay: I hate to be "one of those" but, you can guess the question.







Any update you could share? (No pressure, here







)


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (VR6_00Jetta)*

Would appreciate some news on this.
I just put in an order for OEM HID's so the VF-enginering kit is out for me. I don't really like the idea of a hot supercharger being 2mm away from the HID electronics... so that means I have to go turbo if I want big power.


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## Fugee (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Would appreciate some news on this.
I just put in an order for OEM HID's so the VF-enginering kit is out for me. I don't really like the idea of a hot supercharger being 2mm away from the HID electronics... so that means I have to go turbo if I want big power.


there is plenty of people who run OEM HIDs and have a SC and dont have any problems...


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Zwei komma acht T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zwei komma acht T* »_there is plenty of people who run OEM HIDs and have a SC and dont have any problems...









I know folks have done it, but I still don't like the idea of 2mm of clearance. Just me being anal is all. Plus I beleive most of the folks running HID's with the VF have relocated the integrated ballasts which is something I don't want to do to oem HID's.


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## gcwalla (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (phatvw)*

*so how bout that turbo? * 
and i want a free sticker.


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## procket2_8 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (gcwalla)*

Mk2vroom: thanks for the props...
Heres pics of the mk3 dp and manifold on an mkiv, this was done in may..
















The final product:


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## procket2_8 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (procket2_8)*

I dont mean to stel the thread, just replying to mk2vroom, hes my bud, good luck car looks good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## XXX2000VR6XXX (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (procket2_8)*

tell us more about the MK3 Intake Manifold conversion ... is this going to be an option on the Kinetic Kit ? ... is it better to not have the changeover "shifter rod" when running turbo ? ... my "shifter rod" has been replaced 3 times for rattling ... the manifold twice


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## VWFREAK8V (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (XXX2000VR6XXX)*

I am trying to wait and wait and wait BUT ITS NOT WORKIN!!


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## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (VWFREAK8V)*

/bump for updates!








Mike


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## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (FaelinGL)*

Has C2 fixed the Oxygen sensor problem yet with these Kinetics kits? If so, how do I get the update? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_Has C2 fixed the Oxygen sensor problem yet with these Kinetics kits? If so, how do I get the update? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

What problem was that exactly? And you're talking about the MkIII kit right? This thread is about the MkIV kit which hasn't been released yet.


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## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
What problem was that exactly? And you're talking about the MkIII kit right? This thread is about the MkIV kit which hasn't been released yet.


I assumed, safely perhaps, that the same problem would ensue with the MK4. Y'all should know, the CEL comes on and stays on. My only gripe. The kit is the best thing that ever happened to my car, minus the whole oxygen sensor / CEL thing. Just wondering if they figured it out yet - that's all


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_Has C2 fixed the Oxygen sensor problem yet with these Kinetics kits? If so, how do I get the update? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


On topic: The mk4 stuff should be close to ready...








anyone near CT can come check it out.
Re: the o2 sensor 'problem':
NO ONE (any other tuner) is tackling the issue except me.
I am testing code now. Not easy to ADD new code.
When I sort it out, the update will go through Kinetic. (for Kinetic guys)
-Jeff


_Modified by Jefnes3 at 11:06 AM 11-12-2005_


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## Dubious_Dubber (Oct 2, 2005)

Last I heard they have no clue when the MK4 kit will be out. Last I heard they were having problems finding the injectors they were using with the kit. So now they're back to the programming stage as they are now using different injectors. As far as an ETA, it was left as an unknown simply due to the frequent setbacks.


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## Dubious_Dubber (Oct 2, 2005)

I haven't confirmed this, but supposedly the Mk4 kit could be out as early as Christmas.


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## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_

On topic: The mk4 stuff should be close to ready...








anyone near CT can come check it out.
Re: the o2 sensor 'problem':
NO ONE (any other tuner) is tackling the issue except me.
I am testing code now. Not easy to ADD new code.
When I sort it out, the update will go through Kinetic. (for Kinetic guys)
-Jeff


I heard there is a certain car up there getting tuned as we speak...


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## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Ron Burgundy)*

Any news on the release date?


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## 9seven6 (Jun 8, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_Any news on the release date?

Good call, there is a number of people interested in this


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## xjzhx (Dec 7, 2005)

yeah i need this in my life...


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## VRdublove (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: (xjzhx)*

It doesn't matter really to me when it comes out, as long as it does. I built my car around this kit, but have yet to have the kit.







But it is going to be awesome when it does!


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## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (VRdublove)*

Is 300-350whp an attainable goal with this kit once they release the stage 2 or 3?


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

Yes.
I imagine you'll need a HG spacer.
Tuning the 10.4:1 compression with boost is a real pain.
-Jeff


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## VR6ix (Oct 27, 2003)

When was it 10.4:1 ? Always thought and read the AFP at 10.0:1...


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (VR6ix)*

same block and head as the Mk3 12v VR6 (AAA code)
but thinner HG.
some mk3 guys put the mk4 HG on as a way to raise compresson.

-Jeff


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## 9seven6 (Jun 8, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_some mk3 guys put the mk4 HG on as a way to raise compresson.

-Jeff

Yep, that's what I did in my n/a vr6.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (P i m p y 9 7 6)*

Any chance of an update before 2006?
When I get married next year I probably won't have the same budget for these toys...


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## Notabora2 (Dec 24, 2002)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Yes, An update would be great! I need some pressure. I live in the land of Autobahn and need something to move my Jetta!


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_
I assumed, safely perhaps, that the same problem would ensue with the MK4. Y'all should know, the CEL comes on and stays on. My only gripe. The kit is the best thing that ever happened to my car, minus the whole oxygen sensor / CEL thing. Just wondering if they figured it out yet - that's all









ALL of our MKIV FI software runs without the CEL light on...always has








Jeff and I are working presently on the latest CEL code for the MKIII that will alleviate the light, as we have already done with the OBDI cars. (Jeff is working on the code, I am only testing it







)
So as a re-cap.
MKIII OBDI: NO CEL
MKIII OBDII: Code being tested in 01.06
MKIV: NO CEL
Happy Motoring
C2


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## Dubious_Dubber (Oct 2, 2005)

So if you're interested in the Mk4 kit, sounds like you should give Kinetic a call.


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## Notabora2 (Dec 24, 2002)

*Re: (Dubious_Dubber)*

Already did that. They told me this:
Marc Ashcroft of Kinetic - We are currently in the final stages of completing the tuning of our MKIV 12V VR6 Stage1 turbo kit. As soon as I have some more info on pricing and availability I will email you.


_Modified by Notabora2 at 10:05 PM 1-4-2006_


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## pdykstraVR6 (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: (Notabora2)*

i want this kit, someone let me know when its available


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## AtotheJ3 (Jan 16, 2006)

The pics don't seem to be working for me


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (AtotheJ3)*

I drove up to B.C. and got the MkIV 12v Kinetic kit installed on my car this weekend. 






















_






















Shawn and Mark and the rest of the Kinetic guys are great to deal with. They installed the the BETA 6PSI non-intercooled kit. There were a couple of fitment issues due to my VF motor mounts, but the team worked hard and did some last minute fab work to get it all working. Expect a full review and pictures later this week...
BTW if you're in the Vancouver/Surrey area, you have to stop by the shop and get the full tour. The facility is amazing. Row after row of turbines with all sorts of different blade angles, aspect ratios, etc, and literally hundreds of un-assembled _snails_ just waiting for the next build-up. Full machine shop, welding, and assembly. These guys are the real deal and really design cars and performance parts - they are not just another parts installer.


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## pdykstraVR6 (Jan 2, 2004)

so any word on this comin out?


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (jetta20)*

[email protected] said they were planning to do a test-fitting on a 3rd car later this month. They want to get the kit perfect so that folks won't have any issues down the line.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Some teaser pics of my Kinetic turbo kit:
















Sorry for the poor quality. I'll take better pics next week.


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## IBD12NV (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: (phatvw)*

sweet!!! post more!
How much is this kit?
Could you install it yourself given the proper tools?


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (IBD12NV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IBD12NV* »_sweet!!! post more!
How much is this kit?
Could you install it yourself given the proper tools?

More pics to come but you're gonna have to wait for my full review next week








I don't know if I should state the price I paid. I only paid for parts since my kit is a BETA. Install and dyno testing were free and I don't think Kinetic made much, if any profit on price they gave me. I suggest you call up Kinetic and ask them for a price.
Yes this is a kit you could install yourself. Shawn said you do not have to take the engine out of the bay. You do need a lift or some big jack stands so you can get under the car and fit the new downpipe. But basically, you take off the old exhaust manifold+downpipe and replace it with the kinetc unit+turbo assembly. Then do all the oil and coolant plumbing. Flash or solder in an ECU chip. Tap the oil pan. replace injectors, sparkplugs, oil filter. Drill a small hole into the upper intake manifold (some weird prressure differential stabilizing thing - I don't quite understand it but it makes a loud hissing noise at idle lol!)



_Modified by phatvw at 10:22 AM 2-14-2006_


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## Je-Jetta! (Oct 28, 2003)

*Re: (phatvw)*

i've been waiting for this kit ever since i got my car. its the perfect poor mans starter kit into the FI world. hopefully i'll be rockin it this summer. cheers to Kinetic and C2 for finally getting this kit ready to go







bump for some more info.





















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## H20DubFreak (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (Je-Jetta!)*

I hope that everything is going smoothly. After having nightmares with the EIP kit (on my brothers MKIV 12V), I am hoping to go with Kinetic because they seem to have ironed out all the kinks that EIP didn't even bother with. Also, I met Chris of C2 Motorsports at Waterfest 11 (2005) and he was a great guy. Looking forward to more development news as it comes!


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (H20DubFreak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *H20DubFreak* »_I hope that everything is going smoothly. After having nightmares with the EIP kit (on my brothers MKIV 12V), I am hoping to go with Kinetic because they seem to have ironed out all the kinks that EIP didn't even bother with. Also, I met Chris of C2 Motorsports at Waterfest 11 (2005) and he was a great guy. Looking forward to more development news as it comes!









Its 99% there guys. I am providing feedback on a couple minor issues, but the drivability so far is really good. Its is worth the wait and will put a giant smile on your face.
Don't forget to save up for gasoline. You'll be burning through gas really fast cause you just can't help yourself from pressing the pedal down and feeling the whosh!


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## MK4futurayellowVR6 (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

what kind of battery is that


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## MK4futurayellowVR6 (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Some teaser pics of my Kinetic turbo kit:
















Sorry for the poor quality. I'll take better pics next week.

what kind of battery is that


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (MK4futurayellowVR6)*

Braille lightweight. See the FAQ link below for some more pictures of Braille battery installs.
The thing only weighs 11 pounds compared to the 35-40 pound oem battery. Makes your VR6 handle like a 1.8T


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Here are some numbers off the dyno sheet discounting torque peak artifacts on dyno load-up. All numbers were measured at the wheels with 91 octane fuel and 10°C weather. Yes that is a rather strong stock engine thank you! Expect even better performance on the trubo with 92+ octane fuel.
MkIV 12v VR6 + GIAC + DIY intake + K&N filter
171WHP @ ~5300 RPM
183ft-lb @ ~3550 RPM
MkIV 12v VR6 + stage 1 Kinetic kit
227WHP @ ~5800 RPM
234 ft-lb @ ~3550 RPM
Net increase of 56WHP and 51 ft-lbs. This is on stock exhaust. I'd probably see another 20HP with a full 3" exhaust. That will be the next upgrade










_Modified by phatvw at 2:54 AM 2-15-2006_


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

More pics!
Turbocharger:








Maf - just look at the beautiful welding job:








Engine bay:








Tial Wastegate @6PSI:








My car with HIDs:


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## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Score!







Congrats!
Now, I have to be the voice of reason. Please becareful on the 1st trackday.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (eggroller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eggroller* »_Score!







Congrats!
Now, I have to be the voice of reason. Please becareful on the 1st trackday.

With great power comes great responsibility...


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## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Here are some numbers off the dyno sheet discounting torque peak artifacts on dyno load-up. All numbers were measured at the wheels with 91 octane fuel and 10°C weather. Yes that is a rather strong stock engine thank you! Expect even better performance on the trubo with 92+ octane fuel.
MkIV 12v VR6 + GIAC + DIY intake + K&N filter
171WHP @ ~5300 RPM
183ft-lb @ ~3550 RPM
MkIV 12v VR6 + stage 1 Kinetic kit
227WHP @ ~5800 RPM
234 ft-lb @ ~3550 RPM
Net increase of 56WHP and 51 ft-lbs. This is on stock exhaust. I'd probably see another 20HP with a full 3" exhaust. That will be the next upgrade











Wow, those are some healthy 'stock' numbers!!


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## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: (eggroller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eggroller* »_Score!







Congrats!
Now, I have to be the voice of reason. Please becareful on the 1st trackday.

Somehow I'm thinking his 12.3" rotors may not be as big a heat sink as he needs.


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## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: (traffic)*

Just got a ride in phatvw's car. Wow. Such a difference.
It's funny. It's rather deceptive where the n/a torque transitions to boosted power. It's very smooth (except for the mad rushing air sound) In fact, you wouldn't even think it's boosted except at about 4000rpms, you just can't lift your head off the headrest.
His third gear pull feels like my 2nd gear pull. The big difference being is the pull stays until like 7000rpms! It takes a bit longer to spool up than say a 1.8t, but since you've got so much torque already, it just feels slow to build I think.
In any case, nice ride, Dan!


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## NS01GTI (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: (traffic)*

Holy crap... Looks great Dan! Must be a blast to drive now. Definitely makes me wish I had gone VRT. So when are you planning on going with the turboback exhaust? Are there any plans to go with more then 6psi in the near future?
Lastly, the shot of your headlights makes me want HIDs soooo bad!!!


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (NS01GTI)*

Holy crap indeed!
No more power upgrades for a while. Perhaps next year I will get the full turboback exhaust and an intercooler kit so I can bump up to 8 or 9 PSI and 300HP! In the meantime I have to get tires, clutch, limited slip, and of course time on the racecourse! This is a very expensive hobby!


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## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Have they set a price yet? Ive heard some ideas of where its and im dying to get this when it comes out. What is the install like...I have a small garage with a lift and a good amount of tools but minimal experience with the VR6...any input would be awesome.


_Modified by 01VRSIXER at 6:33 AM 2-16-2006_


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_Have they set a price yet? Ive heard some ideas of where its and im dying to get this when it comes out. What is the install like...I have a small garage with a lift and a good amount of tools but minimal experience with the VR6...any input would be awesome.

_Modified by 01VRSIXER at 6:33 AM 2-16-2006_

Unfortuantely I wasn't able to hang around the shop the whole time and watch the install, but I made a summary of the work items here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...28902
The only hard part will be installing the new downpipe. You have to cut the old one out and seal the new one to your existing exhaust. The parts list is pretty much identical to the MkIII kit. The main difference is the software and the fitment of pipes and hoses. I expect the price will be a little more than the MKIII kit.: http://www.kineticmotorsport.c....html


_Modified by phatvw at 12:00 AM 2-16-2006_


----------



## VR SEX (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (phatvw)*

6psi.... thats a very comfortable starting place... keep at it..


----------



## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: (VR SEX)*

Dan,
What was amazing to me was how much power was still there after 6500rpms. I was amazed that you were taking it right up to 7000rpms and there was STILL power. I can see by the dyno that at 6200rpms although your torque was going away, you were still north of 200+whp.
I was actually hoping for a harder hit with the turbo, much like the 1.8t's dramatic increase in torque, but I guess that's because they are going from like "40ftlbs" to 200+







But the area under the graph is pretty impressive for 6psi.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (traffic)*

I drove an R32 and my own MkIV GTI 12v VR6T @6PSI back to back yesteray with mitsui14sun. Here are my random thoughts:
The 3.2L engine has so much low-end torque! Definitely more capable for cruising around at low speed than the 2.8T. Tons of traction off the line with AWD too. The 2.8T with FWD just spins through 1st gear. At higher RPM's, the 3.2 dies down pretty quick. But at <2800 RPM, the 3.2 has the 2.8T beat by a LONG shot. Even with the extra weight on the R32, it feels much more responsive and pulls so smoothely from a standstill.
The 2.8T, has much more pull at high RPM's though. It really screams all the way to 7000RPM. On boost after 3000RPM or so, there is no comparison, the 2.8T is the clear winner acceleration-wise.
I wonder what a 3.2T feels like


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
I wonder what a 3.2T feels like










For the answer to that question, visit the G-Force simulator at NASA headquarters in Houston.
BTW, let us know after the stock mounts are re-installed if the knock sensor stops pulling timing because I was thinking about getting these mounts, and my car will be seeing much more than 237whp so it will probably be vibrating a bit more. I don't want that to mess with the knock sensor. Even though it's risky, bildon motorsports sells this thing that mutes noise from the knock sensor, requiring more violent pings before it will pull timing.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_For the answer to that question, visit the G-Force simulator at NASA headquarters in Houston.
BTW, let us know after the stock mounts are re-installed if the knock sensor stops pulling timing because I was thinking about getting these mounts, and my car will be seeing much more than 237whp so it will probably be vibrating a bit more. I don't want that to mess with the knock sensor. Even though it's risky, bildon motorsports sells this thing that mutes noise from the knock sensor, requiring more violent pings before it will pull timing.

I think 92 octane fuel solved the pinging/pulling timing issue. If you do upgrade mounts, the dogbone is a no brainer. Really not much added vibration. The oem upper tranny mount can be modified to be much stiffer. You open the metal casing and plug up the hollow rubber with some steel bar stock. Way better than spending $175 on the VF mount. Don't do the passenger side mount. Its not worth it. I'll try to find the link to the DIY mod for the tranny mount.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

[email protected] explained a little more about what they did for the turbo setup over the phone today. I was so excited when I picked up the car, I completely forgot all the technical stuff he told me.
The injectors were swapped out to 36# units which are a different shape than the OEM units. The OEM units (20#??) have what is known as an air shroud around them. This effectively lets a little more air "leak" into the chamber at certain RPM's and injector timings (mainly part throttle applications IIRC) and improves driavability by mixing the air and fuel better.
Now with the new injectors, the air shroud is gone or at least different, but we still want that extra little bit of air for tuning and drivabilty purposes. So Kinetic drilled a little hole in the throttle body plate area to let a little more air in. Now obviously this low-tech method isn't the most elegant solution, but it works given the constraints of the crappy VW electronic throttle body. At idle, there is a whistling or hissing noise coming from the engine - you can't tell its coming from the TB because it is being amplified by all the turbo piping and stuff. When you get on WOT and into boost, there is a huge rush of air through the TB and you get this enormous whoosh/hiss sound. It was kinda annoying at first but I've gotten used to it and its actually kind of neat.
Diagram of air shroud fuel injector:
 



_Modified by phatvw at 10:45 PM 2-26-2006_


----------



## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

Congrats on the kit...
I had 1 of the first development kits and took it up to 15PSI.. Great kit.. 











_Modified by BAXTER at 7:30 PM 2-20-2006_


----------



## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_[email protected] explained a little more about what they did for the turbo setup over the phone today. I was so excited when I picked up the car, I completely forgot all the technical stuff he told me.
The injectors were swapped out to 36# units which are a different shape than the OEM units. The OEM units (30#??) have what is known as an air shroud around them. This effectively lets a little more air "leak" into the chamber at certain RPM's and injector timings (mainly part throttle applications IIRC) and improves driavability by mixing the air and fuel better.
Now with the new injectors, the air shroud is gone or at least different, but we still want that extra little bit of air for tuning and drivabilty purposes. So Kinetic drilled a little hole in the throttle body plate area to let a little more air in. Now obviously this low-tech method isn't the most elegant solution, but it works given the constraints of the crappy VW electronic throttle body. At idle, there is a whistling or hissing noise coming from the engine - you can't tell its coming from the TB because it is being amplified by all the turbo piping and stuff. When you get on WOT and into boost, there is a huge rush of air through the TB and you get this enormous whoosh/hiss sound. It was kinda annoying at first but I've gotten used to it and its actually kind of neat.
Diagram of air shroud fuel injector:
 

_Modified by phatvw at 3:44 PM 2-20-2006_


Ok, so this explains a lot. Your car was running just fine. But boy was there a lot of racket going on. That air leaking out of your tires sound at idle and then having your HVAC blower set at max sound when the boost was on.
Wonder what it sounds like from the outside? We'll have to drag during lunch!


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (BAXTER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BAXTER* »_Congrats on the kit...
I had 1 of the first development kits and took it up to 15PSI.. Great kit.. 










_Modified by BAXTER at 7:30 PM 2-20-2006_

15PSI on the MkIV? Is that with the intercooler and headgasket spacer to lower compression? Was it with the MkIV upper intake manifold, or a short-runner intake? 36# or 42# injectors?


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

I cant wait til this thing comes out. I just couldnt justify spending close to $5-6,000 at EIP for somewhere around 300 hp.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

It is definitely worth the wait and its a good bang for the buck. For a daily driver I don't think I could even use much more power with all the traffic around here. Just as I've topped out 3rd gear I gotta slow way the heck back down lol, but at least I get to hear the wastegate hiss 'thankyou, please come again' every time


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

is it rerouted back into the exhaust or dumped into the atmosphere?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_is it rerouted back into the exhaust or dumped into the atmosphere?

I'm new to this turbo stuff so please forgive me if I explained this wrong.

When the boost pressure is below 6PSI and engine under load, the wastegate is closed meaning all exhaust gas goes through the turbo. When boost hits 6PSI, some of the exhaust gas gets shunted around the turbo directly to the CAT so the boost doesn't rise any more and blow the engine.
I think any extra intake pressure when the engine is no longer under load (i.e. when shifting gears) is vented to the atmosphere. 
Check out the pic below.
The shiny round piece in the middle is the wastegate.
The black piece between the pipes in the 180° bend is what I think vents the intake boost pressure. (Blow-off valve?) The black hose coming out the top is a vacuum line from the intake manifold, and there is a thick flex hose connecting to the middle of the 180° bend. I assume the pressure is vented through that thick flex hose and then through the valve based on the amount of vacuum from the intake manifold.









Make sense?

edit. No wait! There is a hose coming out the bottom of that black piece in between the 180° bend and it goes to the intake after the MAF. The air must be diverted back into the intake which makes it a diverter valve?
































_Modified by phatvw at 4:26 PM 2-22-2006_


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

its dumping to the exhaust.








nice setup van neerial disease knows his stuff. hehe


----------



## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: (traffic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *traffic* »_
Ok, so this explains a lot. Your car was running just fine. But boy was there a lot of racket going on. That air leaking out of your tires sound at idle and then having your HVAC blower set at max sound when the boost was on.
Wonder what it sounds like from the outside? We'll have to drag during lunch!









Well, after the ride last night with a turbo veteran in the car, I feel a lot better about the kit. So the mad rushing air sound is the air being sucked into the short ram filter!! Wonder what it would be like with the filter at the end of a stick like a typical CAI?
Again those 3rd gear runs up to 110mph is waaaaaay addicting. I think you're gonna run out of gas at the next track day.


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (traffic)*

Any chance of a video?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_Any chance of a video?

I have some video's of the car on the dyno. Its not that exciting though and the files are rather large. What kind of video are you looking for?


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Anything to hold me over until i can get my hands on the kit.


----------



## killerrabbittruck (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

what is the cost of this kit?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (killerrabbittruck)*

Call up Kinetic for pricing.
I reckon it will be about the same or a little more than the $2650 MkIII kit.
Way more affordable than VF or EIP if you just wanna start out with modest boost


----------



## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
I have some video's of the car on the dyno. Its not that exciting though and the files are rather large. What kind of video are you looking for?


Dan, you can borrow my camera mount and camera or Ray's for that matter and shoot some in-car shots.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Call up Kinetic for pricing.
I reckon it will be about the same or a little more than the $2650 MkIII kit.
Way more affordable than VF or EIP if you just wanna start out with modest boost










The kinetic kit is definitely the best for the money, but you can't compare the kinetic stage 1 to the EIP stage 1. The EIP stage 1 kit is more like the equivalent to the kinetic stage 2. EIP really is the only way you want to go if you are looking for a built engine and stand alone engine management in kit form. But as far as bang for the buck boosting options, EIP isn't at the top of the list unless you're comparing it with supercharger kits (which is what I think EIP is shooting for as far as competition is concerned). Props to kinetic for putting the VR6 back up there as far as HP per dollar is concerned!!! Very happy with that http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

Is 6 PSI the limit for stage one? If so whats limiting that?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_Is 6 PSI the limit for stage one? If so whats limiting that?

You could turn it up with a manual boost controller, but you wouldn't get any benefit.
I think the air charge would be too hot from all the pressure and the turbo would not be in its peak efficiency range any more. You need an inter-cooler or water injection of something to support higher boost. You would also risk damaging the engine with too much boost. The fueling solution with "Stage 1" is fine for 9PSI/300WHP








The inter-cooler "Stage 2" kit which supports 9PSI will probably come out later this year. I spoke with Shawn yesterday and he said they are almost ready to release the Stage 1 kit. Just some more fitment stuff to iron out. Apparently my VF-mounts gave them some valuable information and they are trying to make one solution that will work with all engine mount combos. There is a lot of tedious testing to do.


----------



## GoDeepOrGoHome (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

i want one,
i want the stage 2 with the FMIC
any list of the parts included in stage1??
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (GoDeepOrGoHome)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GoDeepOrGoHome* »_i want one,
i want the stage 2 with the FMIC
any list of the parts included in stage1??
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Parts list: (I hope I got everything right)
Rotomaster/Kinetic brand (Garret T3/T4 style) oil-cooled turbocharger
Kinetic VR6 exhaust manifold
TiAL 38mm waste-gate with 6PSI spring
Bosch diverter valve (710c)
2.5" stainless steel down-pipe
3" stainless steel intake pipe (with 3"->4" coupler for MAF)
4" stainless steel MAF pipe (re-uses oem MAF sensor)
4" AFE cone filter (blue K&N style)
K&N breather filter - clips directly onto secondary air injection pipe
stainless steel braided oil feed line and fittings
oil pan return fitting (re-uses oem oil pan)
various silicone hoses and stainless steel clamps
various stainless steel custom welded pipes
6 36# Bosch fuel injectors
6 Bosch platinum spark plugs (one step colder than oem)
flash-load or socketed ECU software
modified throttle-body (reuses oem throttle-body)
Recommended for install:
new oem oil filter
new synthetic engine oil
edit: the breather filter is for SAI, not the crankcase vent. The crankcase vents to the intake pipe after the MAF.
edit: the DV is the older 710c style. I think this needs to be upgraded for more than 6PSI of boost.


_Modified by phatvw at 12:04 AM 3-2-2006_


----------



## GoDeepOrGoHome (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*



phatvw said:


> Parts list: (I hope I got everything right)
> Rotomaster/Kinetic brand (Garret T3/T4 style) oil-cooled turbocharger
> Kinetic VR6 exhaust manifold
> TiAL 38mm waste-gate with 6PSI spring
> ...


----------



## GoDeepOrGoHome (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (GoDeepOrGoHome)*

why no blow off valve??
can i add one?? or would it hurt it HP wise?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (GoDeepOrGoHome)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GoDeepOrGoHome* »_why no blow off valve??
can i add one?? or would it hurt it HP wise?

There is no need for a BOV. The diverter valve is preferrable for tuning. Once the air is metered by the MAF, if you just blow it off into the atmosphere, you get weird drivability issues at part throttle cause the ECU expects it to still be in the engine.
Stage 2 would include at a minimum:
intercooler core
various ss and silicone hoses & clamps
new ECU software
new wastegate spring to hold more boost (approx 8-9PSI)
To go higher than 9PSI you would need a headgasket spacer to lower compression and most likely 42# injectors. You could also conceivably put a short-runner intake as well. I saw one of Kinetic's custom short-runners at the shop and it looked very nice. The piping is very short from the intercooler to the intake.


----------



## GoDeepOrGoHome (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

oh, then why does every other kit use BOV?
do diverter valves sound anywhere near as cool as BOV LOL??
thanks again!


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (GoDeepOrGoHome)*

You can still hear a psssh yeah.
I don't know why other kits use a BOV. tuner preference I guess. In any case, you can always upgrade the Bosch DV to one of the other popular brands like hyperboost or whatever to fine tune the part throttle response and hold boost a little longer, but I think it works pretty well the way its tuned now.


----------



## GoDeepOrGoHome (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

but i still dont understand how you can run a turbo without an intercooler?
stage 1 doesnt include one? dont you need it!?!?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (GoDeepOrGoHome)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GoDeepOrGoHome* »_but i still dont understand how you can run a turbo without an intercooler?
stage 1 doesnt include one? dont you need it!?!?

You don't need one with only 6PSI. Most of the supercharger kits like VF don't use an intercooler for such low boost. Any more than 6PSI and you better have some cooling though. The reason why most oem turbo's have intercoolers is that they are designed to run at very high boost and be quite efficient from the get go. I think the 1.8T runs at 10-15PSI, and if you add a chip, its more like 15-20PSI.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (GoDeepOrGoHome)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GoDeepOrGoHome* »_but i still dont understand how you can run a turbo without an intercooler?
stage 1 doesnt include one? dont you need it!?!?

Intercoolers aren't just there to give you cooler air, that cooling effect is supposed to give you a power gain as well. However, through every intercooler there is a pressure drop. The smallest pressure drop I've ever heard of for an intercooler is about 1.5psi. At 6psi, with a 1.5psi drop down to 4.5psi, any density gain you get with the cooling effect is going to be outweighed by the relatively large amount of lost boost. In other words, you would actually lose power with an intercooler at a low enough boost setting. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_
Intercoolers aren't just there to give you cooler air, that cooling effect is supposed to give you a power gain as well. However, through every intercooler there is a pressure drop. The smallest pressure drop I've ever heard of for an intercooler is about 1.5psi. At 6psi, with a 1.5psi drop down to 4.5psi, any density gain you get with the cooling effect is going to be outweighed by the relatively large amount of lost boost. In other words, you would actually lose power with an intercooler at a low enough boost setting. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Exactly. To get the bang-for-buck out of an intercooler, you need to start out at a higher boost level. So starting at 9PSI, if you drop 1-1.5PSI via the intercooler, you're down to 7.5-8PSI, but the air is cooler and you're gonna make a lot more power than just a simple 6PSI non-intercooled setup.


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

If the stage 2 kit is designed for 9 PSI and the intercooler drops boost to 7.5-8PSI could you up the srping in the wastegate and up the boost to 10-10.5 and have it run properly?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_If the stage 2 kit is designed for 9 PSI and the intercooler drops boost to 7.5-8PSI could you up the srping in the wastegate and up the boost to 10-10.5 and have it run properly?


I just came up with those particular numbers outta my ass. Its not about it running "properly" thats just the way it is designed. So if it indeed was only 7.5PSI, that would be proper. Sure you can always up the boost. But do you have the fuel to back it up? Thats where it gets tricky. If you run out of fuel... bang and your motor is done!!!


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

1-2psi pressure drop is a lot for an intercooler. if your worried about that just run the signal line to the WG from a source AFTER the IC and you won't 'realize' any pressure drop.


----------



## rs4-380 (Dec 12, 2000)

*Re: (GoDeepOrGoHome)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GoDeepOrGoHome* »_oh, then why does every other kit use BOV?


no self-respecting kit for an engine that runs a MAF will ever use a BOV. You can't compare honda kits to vr6 kits. 
You are dumping METERED air back to the atmosphere when running a bov/maf combo.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (rs4-380)*

Well I blew out my Tial wastegate gasket. [email protected] is overnighting me some new upgraded parts so I should be up and running again real soon. All the production kits will get an upgraded gasket by default now.
Man, sometimes I hate being the guinea pig...










_Modified by phatvw at 10:19 AM 2-28-2006_


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Man, sometimes I hate being the guinea pig...



I bet you don't mind when you are driving the car.








-Jeff


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Well I blew out my Tial wastegate gasket. [email protected] is overnighting me some new upgraded parts so I should be up and running again real soon. All the production kits will get an upgraded gasket by default now.


THats the stock Tial gasket, they suck and you'll burn through them in minutes if the wastegate is even a little bit loose.
The upgrades ones have a fire ring and last a lot longer.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (TBT-PassatG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-PassatG60* »_
THats the stock Tial gasket, they suck and you'll burn through them in minutes if the wastegate is even a little bit loose.
The upgrades ones have a fire ring and last a lot longer.


Yeah thats what I hear. Such a b!tch to get that out of there too! Oh my god my hands were practically bloody with little scratches from working so deep behind the engine...


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*

I've tested pressure drop across an intercooler before while testing for cooling efficiency and 1-2 psi pressure drop across the core of an intercooler is actually a very reasonable amount of pressure drop. Since pressure drop is, to a degree, a semi-linear fraction of the boost put through the intercooler, one can expect much more than 1-2psi pressure drop at higher boost levels, but that pressure loss is recovered in the form of air density. For example, for the sake of argument let's just say that you have a turbo producing 30psi and the ideal gas law, along with the efficiency at which the turbo is compressing the air, determine the air will be at temperature X. At 30 psi, and temperature X, the air has a given density X1. Across a given intercooler there is both a pressure drop of say 4psi and a density gain deltaX1 resulting in a new density of Y1 from the reduction in temperature. The reduction of the temperature deltaX is determined by a calculation relating the efficiency of the intercooler and the environmental temperature to the inlet air temperature of the intercooler. You now have your new boost pressure of 26psi, your new temperature of Y and your new density Y1. There is an important value M that Y must be LESS than, in order for an intercooler to do you any good (which is a rather significant amount less than your original temperature X). If Y is less than M, then your new air density out of the intercooler Y1 will be greater than the density into the intercooler X1... in spite of the loss of boost pressure, the gain in air density results in a greater mass of air on the cool side of your charge piping







. This is good because you get cooler air and more power. However, although Y is gauranteed to be smaller than X, it is possible for it to be greater than or equal to the critical temperature M. If the intercooler is only able to cool the air to M or even above M, then you're new density Y1 will be greater than or equal to your original density X1







. This is bad because you either have the same air mass as what you started out with or even less air mass than what you started out with which results in either on obsolete intercooler or a harmful intercooler, respectively. That is the undergraduate version of why a 6psi turbo kit does not have an intercooler: Y is greater than or equal to M. BTW, there is nothing shameful about running a BOV on a VR6 as long as you've got the software to do it right. Hell, in my opinion, a BOV is just going to sucker more uknowing V8's into a VRT induced slaughter







.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

In other words, pv=nrt


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_In other words, pv=nrt









Among other things, yes.
pv=nrt is what physicists use, engineering phsysics has to take more things into account than the ideal situation. But without the ideal gas law, engineering wouldn't have a way to derive equations for dynamic situations. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VWeezly (Jul 5, 2005)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

I've been following this since it's birth and let me congratulate yall on "keeping it real". There are so many people out there who will only give credit to those kits that are toting high boost. The Kinetics kit is exactly what I have been looking for... a daily driver/Porsche slayer. Phatvw, how did you get hooked up with Kinetics in order to test the kit? I would gladly provide my car for the cause and I'm willing to drive up there.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (VWeezly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWeezly* »_I've been following this since it's birth and let me congratulate yall on "keeping it real". There are so many people out there who will only give credit to those kits that are toting high boost. The Kinetics kit is exactly what I have been looking for... a daily driver/Porsche slayer. Phatvw, how did you get hooked up with Kinetics in order to test the kit? I would gladly provide my car for the cause and I'm willing to drive up there.

I kept posting in this thread asking questions and not getting answers. Finally Jeff Atwood (Jefnes3) IM'ed me and said to goto http://www.kineticmotorsport.com and send Shawn an email and ask if they need another BETA test car. I beleive my car was the 2nd kit they installed. They had my car for 2 days: 1 install, 1 testing. I believe they are working on a 3rd test car this week and will have some updated pipes that will fit a little better.
As for keeping it real and being a Porsche slayer, I kept up with a Carrera 4 (325HP/4WD/3400 lbs) on the highway. He was zipping in and out of traffic and kinda cut me off and then zipped ahead full throttle. I could tell cause of the exhaust note. I was like "Heeeeeeellll no!" and was right on his ass. I could see him look in his mirror and was all like "What the hell? Is that a Golf?" Bad judgment on my part I know. Must be mature and let these things go...











_Modified by phatvw at 1:04 PM 3-1-2006_


----------



## VWeezly (Jul 5, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Wow. That is exactly what happened to me only with a civic. I know, I know I shouldn't be effected by it, but when some dude with a coffee can for a muffler pulls up to me on the highway and wants to go... in a CIVIC... I can't help myself. I had never taken my car to 130 mph before. It felt delightful... (that's what she said) 
Thanks man. I'll give Shawn a call.


----------



## Edsquickvr6 (Apr 29, 2003)

*Re: (VWeezly)*

so anyway when is this mk4 kit comin out??????????


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (Edsquickvr6)*

Does anyone know the exact point in the RPM band at which the rod in the intake manifold switches over to the longer runners?


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_If the stage 2 kit is designed for 9 PSI and the intercooler drops boost to 7.5-8PSI could you up the srping in the wastegate and up the boost to 10-10.5 and have it run properly?


The 7.5-8psi is what the manifold sees in terms of pressure. This pressure is misleading because there is more air mass on the 7.5-8psi side than on the 9 psi side due to the density gain... blah, blah, blah, voila greater mass (along with proper tuning) = more power. However, as you crank up the boost the turbo goes further out of optimum efficiency and you get exponentially warmer charge air but the efficiency of an intercooler is a fixed value, as is the environmnetal temperature that cools your charge air. In other words you'll have more pressure after the intercooler, but that doesn't gaurantee you more air mass than a safer 2 psi ago on a 10.5:1 engine. So it's a double edged sword. Yes, cranking up the boost will probably get you an extra few ponies, but unless you crank the boost up a significant amount (percentage wise) you're going to find yourself chasing your tail.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

More on the modified throttle body:








Yikes thats a big hole! Makes a hissing/whistling sound. Wonder if I can bevel the edges to cut down on that noise...


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Why is it necessary to do that to the throttle body?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_Why is it necessary to do that to the throttle body?

I explained it here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...83270
I suspect this may not be necessary in the production kits.


_Modified by phatvw at 11:16 AM 3-2-2006_


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Got the car running again. Works a lot better with the heavy-duty gasket! Still have a small exhaust leak between the wastegate and the downpipe - damn exhaust flex tubing







[email protected] is going to send me an updated Downpipe design later this month which should fix that issue.
I'm not complaining. I knew what I was getting into when I signed up to be a beta tester. This is all fun - frustrating at times, but still fun.


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Did i read somewhere in here that you have to drill into the intake mani also?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_Did i read somewhere in here that you have to drill into the intake mani also?

I was mistaken. Its not the intake mani, just the throttle body.


----------



## VR_WAGEN (Oct 21, 2003)

pricing for stage1? stage 2????????????


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (gti_03)*

Glad to see that your car is getting the bugs worked out....... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

C2


----------



## vdubspeed88 (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

yeah we''ve got people down here waiting for this kit http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
_Modified by vdubspeed88 at 8:34 PM 3-10-2006_


_Modified by vdubspeed88 at 8:44 PM 3-10-2006_


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (vdubspeed88)*

vdubspeed88: I noticed that you're in Dallas. Do you work at a shop there or are you an enthusiast. BTW, How's the VW seen in Dallas? It sucks here in Austin. Most people that own VW's here are tree-huggers... not that it's bad to be a tree hugger, but that's just the majority of VW owners down here. There are only a small handful of VW guys down here that ACTUALLY tune their cars. (I don't consider buying rims and a muffler tuning)


----------



## vdubspeed88 (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_vdubspeed88: I noticed that you're in Dallas. Do you work at a shop there or are you an enthusiast. BTW, How's the VW seen in Dallas? It sucks here in Austin. Most people that own VW's here are tree-huggers... not that it's bad to be a tree hugger, but that's just the majority of VW owners down here. There are only a small handful of VW guys down here that ACTUALLY tune their cars. (I don't consider buying rims and a muffler tuning)

I work at a shop in Dallas. We have a considerably strong seen 2-4 meets a week in different areas of DFW. I actually just put a supercharger on a 30v passat and many people are starting to go big turbo on 1.8ts. Check out vdubaddiction.com or dallasimports.net 
Also are you going to make it out to Hotwaterblast in Houston I might see you there http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (vdubspeed88)*

I've got a hectic schedule with college and all, but if you im me some info I might be able to go...


----------



## vrnick01 (Apr 4, 2005)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

WTF are we ever going to get a price range on this kit???


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (vrnick01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vrnick01* »_WTF are we ever going to get a price range on this kit???









Dude. I posted that way back on page 3. My guesstimate is $2650-3000
I reckon it will be at least as expensive as the MkIII kit which is $2650, and probably no more than $3000. The parts list is virtually identical. Stage 2 and Stage 3 will each likely be an additional $1000 or so when they are released.
You can also just pick up the phone and call Kinetic's toll-free number and ask them. 



_Modified by phatvw at 5:39 PM 3-14-2006_


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

what kind of mileage are you seeing when you are just cruising? Like, what would the new EPA estimate be for your car if it came as it is now from the factory?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

Check out the "gas" link in my sig for my fuel economy stats. Hover over the "more" links for notes such as HPDE days and modification install dates.

On average, I have seen a reduction in fuel economy by about 20% over 5 tanks of gas. Depends how you drive though. I love getting into boost! If I could stay out of boost, I reckon fuel economy would be within about 5-10% of stock.



_Modified by phatvw at 8:42 PM 3-14-2006_


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*

this might be a dumb question to answer, but if you keep it below 2k rpm does it feel much different, and is it much louder? Can you hear the turbo below 2k?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

I can't actually hear the turbo itself. I hear a whoosh of air on boost, and a pshh when the diverter valve opens up. When not on boost, the engine is nominally louder I guess, but it sounds pretty much like any old VR6 with a p-flo style intake.
The only weird this is the hiss resonating through the intake manifold due to the hole drilled in the throttle plate (see posts above). But you can't even hear that with the hood closed.


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

does it feel different in a power way at 1k, 1.5k, and 2k rpm's?
TIA


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_does it feel different in a power way at 1k, 1.5k, and 2k rpm's?
TIA

0-2300RPM = stock
2300RPM-4000RPM = building boost
4000RPM = full boost
I don't have a boost gauge yet, but thats what I can tell by how it feels and sounds. If I floor it in 5th gear at 2000RPM and let off at 2300RPM I hear the diverter valve, so I know I'm already spooling at 2300RPM








The sound is the same regardless of what RPM I let off at over 4000RPM so I assume I'm at maximum boost beyond 4000RPM.


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_I don't have a boost gauge yet, but thats what I can tell by how it feels and sounds. If I floor it in 5th gear at 2000RPM and let off at 2300RPM I hear the diverter valve, so I know I'm already spooling at 2300RPM








The sound is the same regardless of what RPM I let off at over 4000RPM so I assume I'm at maximum boost beyond 4000RPM.


the turbo will spool sooner in a taller gear because there is more load put on the engine.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*

Best guess your at ~full boost (6psi) by 3000rpm or sooner, sooner
the more likely case.
-Jeff


----------



## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
0-2300RPM = stock
2300RPM-4000RPM = building boost
4000RPM = full boost


That's what it feels like to me too.
Seems like you're at full boost around 3500rpms. It's just that the hp curve doesn't get as fat until 4000rpms and you really feel the push.


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

what kind of engine temps are you seeing???? what about oil temp??? just curious how much hotter it is running, thanks


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (nubVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nubVR* »_what kind of engine temps are you seeing???? what about oil temp??? just curious how much hotter it is running, thanks

No aftermarket gauges yet. Not even boost lol!
Water/coolant temp runs the same as before according to the OEM gauge: just a smidgen past vertical. I hope to get EGT and oil temp gauges soon. Got to figure out a way to mount the EGT really close to the combustion chamber so as to get the most accurate reading. Would be cool if I could tap into the manifold:
http://42draftdesigns.com/inst...s.htm


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Update:
Spoke with [email protected] yesterday.
He has a redesigned downpipe with a one-piece wastegate dump-tube connection instead of spiral flex tubing+clamps. We surmise that the increased exhaust gas temps present in the MkIV engines (different cams/different runner lengths as compared to MkIII?) decreases the reliability of the flex section compared to the MKIII kits and causes leaks over time.
Shawn has also redesigned the upper air intake 180° pipe (compressor -> throttle body). The new pipe should have better fitment for cars with modified or aftermarket engine mounts.
Hope to have all this installed in the next couple weeks along with some new gauges.
BTW Shawn's customer service is great. He's gonna hook me up with a local installer so I don't have to trek all the way to Canada again


----------



## VWeezly (Jul 5, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Sweet. Glad all the kinks are being worked out. I haven't heard from Shawn since I wrote him last about beta testing. He's probably pretty busy. It would be awesome to have the beta installed by someone here in Minnesota. Although the trip to Canada would be pretty fun. I'll shoot him another email.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (VWeezly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWeezly* »_Sweet. Glad all the kinks are being worked out. I haven't heard from Shawn since I wrote him last about beta testing. He's probably pretty busy. It would be awesome to have the beta installed by someone here in Minnesota. Although the trip to Canada would be pretty fun. I'll shoot him another email.

Yeah he was really busy. Call their 1-800 number and talk to Mark. He might be able help you out.


----------



## VWeezly (Jul 5, 2005)

*Re: (VWeezly)*

Just talked to Mark. No more beta kits being installed. He said the kit is almost ready to go. I may be looking to Kinetic to help me strap on my T3. Mark is pretty cool.


----------



## Je-Jetta! (Oct 28, 2003)

another vortexer waiting for the kit to come out bump!


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (VWeezly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWeezly* »_Just talked to Mark. No more beta kits being installed. He said the kit is almost ready to go. I may be looking to Kinetic to help me strap on my T3. Mark is pretty cool.

I reckon they'll give the final yeah or nay based on the fitment in my car


----------



## Dubious_Dubber (Oct 2, 2005)

_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_I reckon they'll give the final yeah or nay based on the fitment in my car

That'd be awesome if you'd let us now how the fitment goes and anymore info that you have.


----------



## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
I reckon they'll give the final yeah or nay based on the fitment in my car









That'd be great if they finalize the 12v design and start working on a 24v. I'm gonna be suckin' your exhaust at the track this season.


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (traffic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *traffic* »_
That'd be great if they finalize the 12v design and start working on a 24v. I'm gonna be suckin' your exhaust at the track this season.

We now have a 24v in the stable, and will begin working on both NA and FI software for the 24v VR6 platform......with R32 next on the list








Look for a productive summer for C2Motorsports Software Program


----------



## Dubious_Dubber (Oct 2, 2005)

"productive summer" I like the sound of that when it's coming from C2.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (Dubious_Dubber)*

When's the last time someone heard someone told a horror story about how they blew their VR6 by running a turbo setup?










_Modified by dmiller9254 at 6:09 AM 3-29-2006_


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

on a daily basis.....


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (dtm337)*

Just checking in, seeing whats going on with the release.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

I was supposed to get some new parts - presumably the production parts - installed on my car... Will call Shawn tomorrow and see whats up.


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Cool, thanks.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

Getting the new downpipe and upper air intake tube along with my 42DD gauges installed on Friday. Hopefully I'll have updated pics available this weekend.
BTW I discussed the possiblity of designing a stage-2 intercooler kit around the MkV 2.0T OEM intercooler part# 1K0145803A. The core only costs $112-150 from VW. Shawn was gonna make some calls and see how long that part was going to be available at the low price. Would be awesome to bump up to 9-10PSI for just a few hundred bucks. Just need the IC and some pipes


----------



## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Since you have to rebuild your front end, this may be the perfect opportunity to go with a fmic!! The only time you'll see my tail lights is when you lap me on the track!!


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (traffic)*

In case you want to read a funny/sad story about my car...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2535926


----------



## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

any news yet when this is going to be released... i was told early march when I talked to them, and it's obviously passed early march now. Just wondering if anyone else has heard any info on it.


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (Jopn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jopn* »_any news yet when this is going to be released... i was told early march when I talked to them, and it's obviously passed early march now. Just wondering if anyone else has heard any info on it.

x2


----------



## vrnick01 (Apr 4, 2005)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

its getting close because there ad in euro tuner this month says just released, but it hasnt been yet


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (vrnick01)*

Got the new downpipe and intake tubing fitted. Car runs great and is much quieter. We ran into a couple minor fitment issues but nothing that should hold back production of the kit.
I took a ton of pics of the install and the issues we ran into and how we solved them Too tired to post up now. Will post tomorrow or Sunday.


----------



## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Cool. Can't wait to get a ride in your car again.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (traffic)*

Here is a snapshot of the new downpipe compared to the old one:









Everything back together:


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

How much is it for the updated MK4 downpipe by itself? And does it open up into a 3-inch v-band that feeds the cat?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

aha you want to buy the mk3 kit plus the new downpipe? hehe
It is 2.5" all the way through. Shawn showed that 3.0" only helps significantly well past 10psi. Of course you'll find a bunch of whiners who say otherwise. I'm sure Shawn will substitute a 3" for a price, but keep in mind that this is designed to be simple/affordable kit not a beast at the strip.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

On the street boost won't go past 10lbs, but for track use it may see all the way up to 17psi. I think that a 2.5" downpipe is tolerable for me, but at some point before the cat I need it to taper up so I can utilize the planned 3-inch exhaust. I'm piecing parts together from different places (do-it-yourslef turbo kit) so that I can have my cake and eat it too. It's fine if the entire dp is 2.5, I can taper it up on my own. I'm just curious if you have any clue what the downpipe costs by itself.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

Parts cost isn't gonna be more than $100. Two flex sections, 3 flanges and some pre-bent ss tubing bits. Labour is probably 1 hour. Add in design work and profit so perhaps $250? Thats just a wild-ass guess.


----------



## Dubious_Dubber (Oct 2, 2005)

I just so happened to make myself an extra $3k this month, sad thing is I have to pay off my car first. Looks like I won't be one of the first to own the production kit.


----------



## rykiop (Oct 11, 2005)

*Re: (Dubious_Dubber)*

So now that it is mid march are there any updates on price, debute and when can we start ordering? I'm drooling too much over this kit I must have boost, psssssssht!





























Its the only way I'll get laid.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (rykiop)*

Keep your pants on dude








I'm sure Shawn is frantically working out the prices and stuff. With all the challenges on fitment and replacing busted waste-gates and flex joints, I'm sure he just wants to get it rock solid so there are no issues down the line. Trust me you'll appreciate all the work Shawn and the beta testers are doing! You are going to get an awesome kit!


----------



## rykiop (Oct 11, 2005)

Oh no doubt about how rock solid this thing is gonna be. I can wait I was just wondering so I could figure out how much to take a loan out for and how long I have to save money.


----------



## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Keep your pants on dude








I'm sure Shawn is frantically working out the prices and stuff. With all the challenges on fitment and replacing busted waste-gates and flex joints, I'm sure he just wants to get it rock solid so there are no issues down the line. Trust me you'll appreciate all the work Shawn and the beta testers are doing! You are going to get an awesome kit!


I agree that most will be very impressed with this kit when it is released and it will be well worth the wait. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by tekstepvr6 at 2:34 PM 4-18-2006_


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (rykiop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rykiop* »_Oh no doubt about how rock solid this thing is gonna be. I can wait I was just wondering so I could figure out how much to take a loan out for and how long I have to save money.

I would save up $3000. That would likely cover the kit and some gauges








BTW Shawn says my car is the full production kit now. I believe I am the first












_Modified by phatvw at 12:15 PM 4-18-2006_


----------



## rykiop (Oct 11, 2005)

So then it should be coming out soon.
btw how loud is the dv when it psssht


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (rykiop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rykiop* »_So then it should be coming out soon.
btw how loud is the dv when it psssht


The DV is audible from outside the car cause it blows right into a reverberating metal tube


----------



## asphaltvr6 (Dec 30, 2004)

so when is this going to be up for sale


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (asphaltvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *asphaltvr6* »_so when is this going to be up for sale

Call up Kinetic!

On another note, I just hooked up my boost gauge. In second gear boost maxes out at around 3400RPM, maybe earlier, but I had to look at the road lol







I am seeing somewhere between 5-6PSI - it is just beyond the 5PSI mark on my VDO gauge. Now I have to figure out how to hookup oil and water temperature gauges...


----------



## Alaska (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Damn...
VRT or SC/VR6 for my daily driver?
if its only 3gs maybe a turbo is more cost effective-
Very nice I'm jealous http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (Alaska)*

all i have to say is the software is awsome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to jeff and c2....


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (dtm337)*

how long does it take you to go 30-80 in third gear?


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_how long does it take you to go 30-80 in third gear?









4 nano seconds at 14 psi


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_how long does it take you to go 30-80 in third gear?









Yes yes yes I'll do the test!!! Got a working VAG COM again!
3rd gear pull right?


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*

yea all in third gear from 30 mph to 80 mph. a rough number is just fine
i really appreciate it!


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

On a 3rd gear full throttle run, I got 7.72 seconds from 51.3 -> 122.5 kmph or 2320 -> 5440RPM
Thats about 30 - 74 mph
30-80 ought to be about 8.5 seconds.

I also got
2.26 seconds from 26.3 -> 62.5 kmph in a rolling 1st gear run.
Have to find a better stretch of road. And I need to lose some weight on this car











_Modified by phatvw at 5:12 PM 4-20-2006_


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*

for comparison, my mk4 jetta 12v did 11.2 30-80 in 3rd gear with chip, cams, and a cai. a stg 3+ 330whp 1.8t did it in 7.25 (mostly because of the large spool)
nice job phatvw! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

Off topic, but would CAT 263's or the Autotech 262's be out of the questions with this turbo kit?


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

i have 262's and would like to know as well. I've read jefnes say that it's all in the tuning, but I'd love a _concrete _yes or no as to whether autotech 262's will work effectively with the kinetics kit


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

I saw a thread around here where someone tested out some cams on a VRT and even with the overlap he still produced more power than the stock cams, like you im curious if it will work specifically with this kit.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_I saw a thread around here where someone tested out some cams on a VRT and even with the overlap he still produced more power than the stock cams, like you im curious if it will work specifically with this kit.

The results on a MkIII are going to be different than on a MkIV. I believe the MkIII has built-in intake runner length compensation for the two cylinder banks while the MkIV has a different cam lobe profile on the two cylinder banks as well as the variable geometry intake. A cam designed for a MkIII VR6 and MkIII intake won't work as well on a MkIV intake and in theory you'll see uneven exhaust gas temperatures as a result. 
However, try to find a tuner that is producing a MkIV-specific 12v cam!!! I can only imagine a turbo exacerbating these issues. I heard it is good to run an EGT probe on cylinder #6 if you have a turbo and high overlap cams.
edit - Explained here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2444867



_Modified by phatvw at 5:12 PM 4-22-2006_


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Just do what I'm doing and swap your intake manifold on your MKIV 12-valve to a short runner.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_Just do what I'm doing and swap your intake manifold on your MKIV 12-valve to a short runner.









I am planning to do this when I upgrade to stage 2


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*

I will paypal you 10$ to take the car to the track on the stage 1 setup. seriosuly, do it!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_I will paypal you 10$ to take the car to the track on the stage 1 setup. seriosuly, do it!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Dude I am gonna do it, but I need a tranny rebuild first!!! Got peloquin and clutch... just waiting on TDI 5th gear. Then its off to the track: both drag strip and road coarse!!!
I don't think I'm gonna survive very long on the road course with the oem oil cooler, but thats why I got an oil temp gauge


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*

awesome, you rock http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

What's the deal with TDI 5th gear? Is it just a different ratio or is it a matter of strength?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_What's the deal with TDI 5th gear? Is it just a different ratio or is it a matter of strength?

Different ratio to reduce RPM's for highway cruising. I'll be able to run 70MPH at ~2250RPM which in theory will save 3-7% in fuel costs for highway driving.
The gears cost about $300 a set so in order to pay that off in fuel savings you have to drive like 50,000+ miles... but what the hell.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...56673
Here is a gear chart for my car comparing the 5 stock gears with the 0.755 and 0.72 TDI gears. I think the turbo will be able to provide more than enough torque for the 0.72 gearset. Sorry for the rather large image size:











_Modified by phatvw at 6:57 PM 4-24-2006_


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

i see they are advertising a MK4 kit...anyone heard how close this is to being released?


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

So checkin out the web site..... in the news sections it says: April 14, 2006: Kinetic Motorsport will be closed for Good Friday.
whats this about???? anyone have any info?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (nubVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nubVR* »_So checkin out the web site..... in the news sections it says: April 14, 2006: Kinetic Motorsport will be closed for Good Friday.
whats this about???? anyone have any info?









They have had this link up forever:
http://www.kineticmotorsport.c....html
Shawn says that I have the production kit so I assume he is now producing a stockpile of downpipes and various pipes to meet the demand for release. Call them up and bug them!


----------



## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

is all kinetics stage 2 just an intercooler? with no additional parts?
I was curious because I want to go side mounted opposed to front mounted like they have. Well, I want the kit to actually come out first, but you know.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (Jopn)*

The stage two should also include intercooler piping, a new compressor housing, and all the necessary hardware and couplings. About the side mount, it typically takes a considerable amount of ducting to get a side mount to work as efficiently as a front mount.


_Modified by dmiller9254 at 12:41 PM 4-26-2006_


----------



## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

i just like the more hidden fact of it... also another question i had was with the FMIC it looks like the run the pipe down behind the engine and back around under the oil pan... my only question with this is, i have a dieselgeek skid plate on there and am not sure if it would get in the way.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Jopn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jopn* »_i just like the more hidden fact of it... also another question i had was with the FMIC it looks like the run the pipe down behind the engine and back around under the oil pan... my only question with this is, i have a dieselgeek skid plate on there and am not sure if it would get in the way.

I want to:
- mount my battery in the trunk in the cd-changer cubby-hole.
- get a short-runner intake manifold
- relocate throttle-body
- get a small air-to-air intercooler to fit in the battery-box location (thought about air-to-water and its just too complex what with the heat exchangers and separate reservoirs, etc)
This solution would have the shortest and simplest piping. The oem grille would likely supply enough air to the intercooler. But I could always tap the windshield sprayers to provide even more cooling. Or I could remove my driver-side headlight for increased airflow at the race track











_Modified by phatvw at 2:31 PM 4-26-2006_


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

I'm pretty sure that the pipes don't go under the engine. BTW, I just made a deal for a lower intake manifold off an MKIII VR6 that is to be my short runner. If I can get the MKIV injectors to seat properly I can put it in before I go turbo


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_I'm pretty sure that the pipes don't go under the engine. BTW, I just made a deal for a lower intake manifold off an MKIII VR6 that is to be my short runner. If I can get the MKIV injectors to seat properly I can put it in before I go turbo









Cool! you gonna weld a big steel pipe to it like this guy? 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...97540
Might want to buy one of the 36# injectors that comes with the kinetic turbo kit to test that out


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Something very similar, yes. If I don't get access to a welder I'll either use JB-weld (I've heard good things about it) or I'll keep the flanges on both sides and try to bolt up a custom plenum.


----------



## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*









it looks like it goes under to me


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Jopn)*

Yeah but thats the MkIII with the compressor on the passenger side. For MkIV, the turbo is flipped 180° so that the compressor is on the driver-side so the piping is going to be totally different.


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Side Note: Anyone know what the largest injector you can run with the stock intake manifold that will fit the MKIV fuel rail? Also how much power are they capable of handling? Thanks in advance if anyone knows.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

The easiest solution to fuel injection selection is to switch to an MKIII manifold. You can then you anything from Bosch 24#'s to 42# injectors. The supportable power levels (safely within less than 100% duty cylce of each injector) range from appx 230whp to 400whp, respectively. Keep in mind, those power estimates are approximations, you need proper tuning for that to work.


----------



## rs4-380 (Dec 12, 2000)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_The easiest solution to fuel injection selection is to switch to an MKIII manifold. You can then you anything from Bosch 24#'s to 42# injectors. The supportable power levels (safely within less than 100% duty cylce of each injector) range from appx 230whp to 400whp, respectively. Keep in mind, those power estimates are approximations, you need proper tuning for that to work.

which then means you need to switch the side the TB is on, which can be done, but means you need new piping, etc.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (rs4-380)*

But the MkIV kit come swith 36# injectors which are good for 300WHP+


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

I think I'll stick with the 36# until I can afford a short runner. 300HP should keep me happy for a few months.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_I think I'll stick with the 36# until I can afford a short runner. 300HP should keep me happy for a few months.

This is true, I just meant that the MKIII manifold give you a lot more selection.


----------



## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

does anyone know what the 1/4 mile is approximately with this kit would be?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Jopn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jopn* »_does anyone know what the 1/4 mile is approximately with this kit would be?

I hope to have an answer in May. My goal is to beat 13.9, however I haven't been to the drag strip in over a year, so I will probably suck pretty bad. My best time with a stock engine was 15.1 with lots of practice


----------



## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

yeah, i have not gone to the track yet. I'm supposed to go with my buddy that has a fast as hell TT 300zx.... he will be in 12's and i will try to break 15 haha...
all i have is a 2.5" catback and a CAI... i'm planing to go turbo eventually with this kit. My friend clocked me doing a 0-60 at 6.72 seconds. That was semi impressive to me because stock it aparantly is like 7.2 or so. So we will see soon.


----------



## Brake_Dust (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (Jopn)*

i'll read this later http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif added to my topics


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (Jopn)*

Yeah, I'm running 0-60 somewhere in the 6's right now.

_Quote, originally posted by *Jopn* »_yeah, i have not gone to the track yet. I'm supposed to go with my buddy that has a fast as hell TT 300zx.... he will be in 12's and i will try to break 15 haha...
all i have is a 2.5" catback and a CAI... i'm planing to go turbo eventually with this kit. My friend clocked me doing a 0-60 at 6.72 seconds. That was semi impressive to me because stock it aparantly is like 7.2 or so. So we will see soon.


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

In regards to the software portion of this turbo kit...Do we send out the ecu to kinetic or C2? Also does the software eliminate the throttle lag and rev/speed limiter like the other chips on the market?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_In regards to the software portion of this turbo kit...Do we send out the ecu to kinetic or C2? Also does the software eliminate the throttle lag and rev/speed limiter like the other chips on the market?

The response is similar to my old GIAC chip. Rev limit is 7000 and throttle response is better than stock. There is still some averaging delay on the throttle, but its the best you can do on the crappy MkIV control system.
I imagine you can send your ecu to be fitted. The chip install is the same as any other chip upgrade. De-solder old chip, solder-in socket, install new chip in socket. I believe there is a flash-option as well, but I'm not sure if all ECU's support the flash option. Best to hook up with VAG-COM to get your ECU code and double-check with Kinetic or C2Motorsports before purchasing.


_Modified by phatvw at 11:06 PM 4-30-2006_


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Let's just be glad we're not having to work with ECU's that have the new "CAN" unit on them. Damn gov't is trying to run every aspect of human life these days.


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_In regards to the software portion of this turbo kit...Do we send out the ecu to kinetic or C2? Also does the software eliminate the throttle lag and rev/speed limiter like the other chips on the market?

Yes, you will send your ECU to us, and we will Flashload it with the Kinetic specific software for your kit.....voila....boost a la mode.

Chris
C2


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_Yes, you will send your ECU to us, and we will Flashload it with the Kinetic specific software for your kit.....voila....boost a la mode.

Chris
C2

Hey is there any chance of having you guys do a custom chip with multiple programs? I would like a "valet" mode that limits RPM's to say 3500 or limits throttle position to 60%. Maybe some combination of cruise-control key presses could switch programs or something...


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

Ok cool, so that saves the hassle of shipping to and from canada.


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

This is gonna be a sweet birthday present to myself. If it comes out before the end of june that is.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

Nice. Just to let all the MKIV guys know, I'm going to be receiving a lower intake manifold from an MKIII that I'll be making a short runner out of, as well as smoothing out the ports etc etc... I'll keep you posted on the progress. Anyway, I was just curious how many might be interested in me making some extras for a couple hundred bucks each (I was thinking something like $350 + core, or $400 complete). It's just hypothetical at this point, but still, let me know if you might be interested.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_Nice. Just to let all the MKIV guys know, I'm going to be receiving a lower intake manifold from an MKIII that I'll be making a short runner out of, as well as smoothing out the ports etc etc... I'll keep you posted on the progress. Anyway, I was just curious how many might be interested in me making some extras for a couple hundred bucks each (I was thinking something like $350 + core, or $400 complete). It's just hypothetical at this point, but still, let me know if you might be interested.









Depends on the design. Are you going to flow test/dyno test? For a few hundred more, you can get the C2 manifold which I assume is flow tested or at least dyno tested. I kinda trust that over a metal tube welded to a lower runner. If testing shows that there is no real performance or relaibility difference, then I'd be in when I do an intercooler upgrade though.


----------



## rykiop (Oct 11, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*

def interested


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Depends on the design. Are you going to flow test/dyno test? For a few hundred more, you can get the C2 manifold which I assume is flow tested or at least dyno tested. I kinda trust that over a metal tube welded to a lower runner. If testing shows that there is no real performance or relaibility difference, then I'd be in when I do an intercooler upgrade though.


From what I can tell the C2 manifold is simply a plenum welded onto a lower intake manifold (hence the requirement for a lower intake manifold core). In fact, you can actually still see the flanges on both sides of the lower manifold on the picture I saw. Anyway, I'll keep you posted on the construction of the manifold once I get my test core.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (rykiop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rykiop* »_def interested

cool, I'll keep everyone posted on construction once I get my core. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

bump for finals


----------



## Dyzee (Mar 19, 2005)

Bump for more info


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (Dyzee)*

1 final down 2 to go, still waiting on the manifold...








BTW, Don't ever take college macroeconomics unless you want to be depressed by the discovery of how we're ripped of every day.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

2 down 1 to go. Wish me luck on this one because it's important (engineering physics 2)








Core is still not here, I'll keep you posted...


----------



## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (procket2_8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *procket2_8* »_









Awwwww... it's so cute!


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_2 down 1 to go. Wish me luck on this one because it's important (engineering physics 2)










Took that last year, not as enjoyable as Physics I, but not too terribly difficult







Good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

so this kit needs to come out soon







I got beat by a 2.0T saab and a gtp g6... it was not cool! haha... how loud actually is the turbo on this guy? That saab's turbo was amazingly loud!


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (Jopn)*

yea i need this thing bad


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_
Took that last year, not as enjoyable as Physics I, but not too terribly difficult







Good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I'm officially done with engineering physics classes until graduate school. No more are needed for my BA. I think the only classes (barring differential equations, which I really should've gotten done this semester







) I have left pertain strictly to mechanical engineering, so I'm pretty excited about that.
Anyway, I talked to the guy about the core and he never received payment for it. I tried again and he received it this time. Expect pics of the core by the end of next week.
Also, are the short runners typically seen with 3" plenums or 4" plenums?


_Modified by dmiller9254 at 1:12 PM 5-12-2006_


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (rs4-380)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rs4-380* »_
which then means you need to switch the side the TB is on, which can be done, but means you need new piping, etc. 








I've been through my engine bay many times and never saw anything indicating to me that I needed to switch the side the TB was on by going with a short runner.


_Modified by dmiller9254 at 6:05 PM 5-17-2006_


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

bump for an update


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

bump for being ready to order this when it is released.










_Modified by Soupuh at 5:04 PM 5-16-2006_


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

yeah really, ive been cravin this thing for a few months now, i already ordered my gauges, they will be here next week!


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (nubVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nubVR* »_yeah really, ive been cravin this thing for a few months now, i already ordered my gauges, they will be here next week!

42DD triple-cluster? if so check out my install thread for an easy way to hook up the LED's:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2546771


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
42DD triple-cluster? if so check out my install thread for an easy way to hook up the LED's:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2546771

sweet! that helps alot http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (nubVR)*









Details: We're currently taking pre orders for 8 kits. We just received our latest shippment of exhaust manifolds (we were out). The first 8 kits should be available to ship not this monday, but the following monday or there abouts (the 29th of this month).
*Pricing: 2950USD + Free Shipping for the First 8 kits, thereafter shipping will be an additional charge.
Ordering: To place your pre-order please contact us @ 1 800 714 9962
Payment: We accept Visa, Mastercard, and Paypal ( [email protected] )*
Thanks, http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Clay


----------



## procket2_8 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*

thats with the old turbo....i got a new one and made a new intake manifold. I put a t3to4e with a 73 tri m and 82 ar hot side. Car rips just on 7 pounds. pics soon


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

Got another question for kinetic or anyone who has the kit. I know you have to send your ECU to C2 to get flashed. Do you get some sort of certificate saying you paid for the flash with the kit or is there a direct link when you purchase the kit to C2 notfying them?


----------



## procket2_8 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

I dynoed my car tonight...with the new addition of a short runner intake i built, and the bigger turbo, i put down 411whp and 410 torque @ 18 psi. Just thought ppl would be interested to see wha self done kits can do...pics of the manifold and setup coming soon. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Redglivr6 (Jun 29, 2001)

*Re: (procket2_8)*

Hey Clay
Is this for 12V or 24V?


----------



## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

*Re: (jazzgtivr6)*

its for a 12v


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (procket2_8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *procket2_8* »_I dynoed my car tonight...with the new addition of a short runner intake i built, and the bigger turbo, i put down 411whp and 410 torque @ 18 psi. Just thought ppl would be interested to see wha self done kits can do...pics of the manifold and setup coming soon. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Awesome!!! Daily driver or track beast???


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

why is it when i called kinetic, they can't say that it's a c2 software program for the ECU. but c2 can do the flash








what is a short runner. do they sell short runners for our mk4 vr6 cars? advantages/disadvantages of a short runner


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_why is it when i called kinetic, they can't say that it's a c2 software program for the ECU. but c2 can do the flash








what is a short runner. do they sell short runners for our mk4 vr6 cars? advantages/disadvantages of a short runner

For the USA folks, its a lot harder to send your ECU across the border to Canada to get flashed. So Kinetic made a deal with C2 so that you could send your ECU to them instead.
The short runner intake ?(SRI) changes the tuning length of the intake manifold so that you make more HP at high RPM, but potentially less torque at low RPM. With respect to the MkIV VR6, the modification would require moving the throttle body to the front of the car, away from the hot exhaust, which would likely improve performance across the board. The SRI is best combined with an intercooler in our application. Do a search on "VR6 short runner" to find vendors)


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

just curious, how many people in this thread are actually gonna buy this kit, relativly soon???? I know its in high demand, but between people talking and actually doing, how many are actually gonna sell in the first couple weeks??? Im hoping to have mine ordered on friday!


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (nubVR)*

well it turns out I won't be able to order until mid June. I shouldn't have even spoken, and now that it is released, I'm DYING


----------



## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

i am poor... so i will keep doing paint jobs until i can reach the amount... but if i get enough jobs in, i should be able to get it sometime this summer.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Sorry guys, I'm still waiting on my core to begin the DIY intake manifold writeup. There's a muffler shop right across the street from my new job (welding), and my new job is at a VW shop (installation), so I should be able to do a pretty good writeup for you guys. Unfortunately, the power gains will just be a seat of the pants report because I'm getting married and need to save as much as I can for the wedding.










_Modified by dmiller9254 at 6:38 PM 5-20-2006_


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

does anyone know if they sell a 3" DP for our mk4 vr6 cars?


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_does anyone know if they sell a 3" DP for our mk4 vr6 cars?

Schimmel performance makes one that is 3" with no wastegate dump tube connection. It is described as a MKIII downpipe, but if you're using the kinetic manifold or the ATP manifold and have the ability to tweak the intake plumbing, it could easily be used on an MKIV. I'll probably end up with a custom DP to ensure a perfect fit.


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*

email: [email protected]
express your interest in the 3" downpipe http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VR6_00Jetta (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*

I'm only planning on <10psi with this kit and I've heard that a 3in DP to a 3in exhaust might not be worth it. But, if it would be - I'd get one (priced reasonable







And I'd be real interested in a FMIC for a MkIV VRT


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (VR6_00Jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6_00Jetta* »_I'm only planning on <10psi with this kit and I've heard that a 3in DP to a 3in exhaust might not be worth it. But, if it would be - I'd get one (priced reasonable







And I'd be real interested in a FMIC for a MkIV VRT


3" DP and Exhaust is WELL worth the effort.
Plan it as a later upgrade if cash is tight.

-Jeff


----------



## rs4-380 (Dec 12, 2000)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_







I've been through my engine bay many times and never saw anything indicating to me that I needed to switch the side the TB was on by going with a short runner.


In your post that I quoted you stated that "going to a MKIII manifold", not a short runner.


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_

3" DP and Exhaust is WELL worth the effort.
Plan it as a later upgrade if cash is tight.

-Jeff


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## procket2_8 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*

nope...daily driver http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Je-Jetta! (Oct 28, 2003)

hey, could we get some specs before we order? i know it's pretty much the same as the MKIII kit but im pretty sure theres some changes. Anyways, im definitely interested in the kit, how many kits are sold so far??
i want that free shipping












_Modified by Je-Jetta! at 2:45 PM 5-23-2006_


----------



## Dyzee (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: (Je-Jetta!)*

I would also like to know exact specs and everything you get for the MKIV kit even if its almost the same but subtle differences.


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (Je-Jetta!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Je-Jetta!* »_hey, could we get some specs before we order? i know it's pretty much the same as the MKIII kit but im pretty sure theres some changes. Anyways, im definitely interested in the kit, how many kits are sold so far??
i want that free shipping








_Modified by Je-Jetta! at 2:45 PM 5-23-2006_

The downpipes are different and so is the inlet tract, injectors are different and the oil pan setup is a bit different there are a fair amount of differences, but its still a good product and its reasonably priced so i guess thats one similarity







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Je-Jetta! (Oct 28, 2003)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*

I'm just trying to think of other questions about this kit.
what do we do with the software? do we send out our ecu or is it just replace a chip?
does the MKIV kit come with a new oilpan already tapped?
i guess i just want some answers as to whats involved in installing the kit, as everyone else who wants FI around here


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (Je-Jetta!)*

Im going to be installing this myself and im only unclear on two things. First being the oil feed/return line installation and second being the removal and install of the new injectors. If anyone has any links or first hand experience that would be great.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

The core will get here tomorrow. The first step of the build will be cleaning it up and radiusing the inlets. I'm not going to bother tuning the runner length to take advantage of resonance. I'll be going with a 4-inch diameter plenum to meet volume requirements. More to come...


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

UP UP UP


----------



## Je-Jetta! (Oct 28, 2003)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_Im going to be installing this myself and im only unclear on two things. First being the oil feed/return line installation and second being the removal and install of the new injectors. If anyone has any links or first hand experience that would be great.

i've changed injectors twice in my car, its pretty easy, the hardest part is getting to the injectors cause you have to take off the intake manifold and the bolts are really hard to get to. Other then that, once you have the fuel rail off the injectors just pull right out. Just gotta be careful installing the new ones because if you pinch any of the o-rings, you'll have leaks. Just take your time. its good to have another pair of hands too. 
As for the oil feed/return lines, i dont think it should be too hard. I think the hardest part would be tapping to oil pan, but i'm not sure if you'd have to do that because the MKIV kits might come with a new oil pan already tapped. I found this picture from someone who is also selling the kinetics kits and they come with a new oil pan in the picture
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=251
heres the link to the kit, and the picture. 








******I'm pretty sure this is the MKIII kit but if were gonna pay more for the MKIV kits might as well get more, just my opinion.


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (Je-Jetta!)*

Thanks man...I've had my intake manifold off a dozen times and it's a breeze now so the injectors sound pretty simple. The only thing im unclear of withthe oil lines is does the drain r feed go back to the oil pan? If it infact i th oil rain lin that goesback to the bottom of the oil pan like i origianlly thought, were does the feed line hook up to? s there some line you tap into in the engine bay or what?


----------



## VR6OOM (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

On the mk3 it taps into the oil filter housing ...most likely the same on your car.


----------



## procket2_8 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: (VR6OOM)*

yes it taps into the oil filter as well in the mk4
i dont know if you can see it there, but look close...you can see i have the relocation thing, as well as the brass fitting into the filter flange


----------



## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

being pretty new to the Forced Induction scene... is there anything that acts as a BOV or DV but just not nearly as loud? I'd like to be a little more descreet instead of having the loud noise of the air blowing out yet still have the air not pressurizing anything...


----------



## vdubspeed88 (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Jopn)*

on my mkIII its silent you can probably hear it without the radio but you would have to listen closely. Its the 710n valve that comes with the kit. I would believe it would be the same for the mkIV.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (vdubspeed88)*

Alright the core is here. These are some pics of it as it came out of the box. I'll be cleaning it up tommorrow. I'll post more pics after I radius the inlets and prep it for welding on the plenum. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
























http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

I've got it all cleaned up now. I also cleared out the ports a bit without grinding away the venturis http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . The plenum I chose to go with, once I actually got to see the piping in person, was 3.5" in diameter. It's still huge! It was galvanized when I got it (not good for welding) so the finish you see was actually prep work for the welding done with an air drill and sanding bit. The plenum is actually steel so I will be welding a steel adapter plate to the plenum that will bolt onto the aluminum section of the manifold. Future versions will use an aluminum plenum. Also, due to the inherent problem of a log manifold not getting equal air to each port, I've decided to incorporate velocity stacks sticking appx 0.5" into the plenum. Enjoy the pictures, more progress is to come soon.

































































_Modified by dmiller9254 at 11:07 PM 5-30-2006_


_Modified by dmiller9254 at 11:11 PM 5-30-2006_


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

Just ordered my Kinetic mkiv kit! YEAYEAYEA


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_Just ordered my Kinetic mkiv kit! YEAYEAYEA









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I'm sure you'll be happy when you're done http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*

Yea, but the waiting is going to KILL me!


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

Have you filled the 8 pre orders yet?


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

Don't quote me on this, but I believe I was the second...


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

the anticipation is killing me! It doesn't even ship until (hopefully) tomorrow... and even then it will be another 2 weeks until I can get it all put together... ahhh!


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_the anticipation is killing me! It doesn't even ship until (hopefully) tomorrow... and even then it will be another 2 weeks until I can get it all put together... ahhh!

Here is a tip for you. While you have the intake manifold off, upgrade the shifter-rod bushings to Gruvenparts design. At 42,000 miles, my intake manifold is making quite a racket...
Look in the MkIV FAQ page for Gary's write-up.


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Volkswagen2NR (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Rippinralf)*

can you keep the AC, i see most people pull it out on the MKIV's


_Modified by Volkswagen2NR at 8:22 PM 6-5-2006_


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Volkswagen2NR)*

With the stage-1 kit there is no problem with AC.
If you get stage-2, it would depend on what front-mount intercooler you get. I don't think Shawn has chosen an intercooler core for the stage-2 kit yet. I suggested he source the MkIV 2.0T GTI intercooler because it is so thin and inexpensive. We'll see.


----------



## VR6_00Jetta (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: (phatvw)*

That part (shifter rod bushing) is eliminated with the C2 SRI, isn't it?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (VR6_00Jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6_00Jetta* »_That part (shifter rod bushing) is eliminated with the C2 SRI, isn't it?

That is correct


----------



## Je-Jetta! (Oct 28, 2003)

anyone have pics of this kit installed on their MKIV? or wanna make pics? i know theres tonnes of pics on MKIII's but i'm having a hard time finding pics on MKIV's.


----------



## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
15PSI on the MkIV? Is that with the intercooler and headgasket spacer to lower compression? Was it with the MkIV upper intake manifold, or a short-runner intake? 36# or 42# injectors?


Lowered compression to 9:0-1, S$ custom intercooler, and #36 injectors.


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (BAXTER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BAXTER* »_
Lowered compression to 9:0-1, S$ custom intercooler, and #36 injectors.


any dyno numbers for that baxter? or track?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (rippinralf)*

Kinetic, what is the story with the production kits regarding the throttle-body?
Do you have to drill a hole to allow more air in at idle or has this been corrected via software or fuel injectors that retain the air-shroud? I'd hate to see a bunch of guys ruin their throttle bodies when installing this kit.
This is my TB. Without that hole the car just stalls out at idle:








edit: been chatting with Jeff Atwood about this. Here are a couple ideas:
fix the software - need to remap it so that the throttle plate stays open a little more at idle. That is the theory - nobody has actually done this yet!
modify the OEM fuel injectors for desired flow and keep the air shroud. You would have to hook up the air shroud nipple to an appropriate air source. Keep in mind that the Kinetic piping does not provide for this so you'll have to be creative.
Split one of the vacuum lines and connect it pre-throttle-body/post MAF. This would in effect do the same thing as drilling your TB. And again, there would be no provision for this on the Kinetic piping.

My recommendation is to NOT drill the throttle body. Use one of the alternatives above until better software is available, or until we hear from Kinetic.
What do you guys think?


_Modified by phatvw at 8:42 PM 6-11-2006_


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (BAXTER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BAXTER* »_
Lowered compression to 9:0-1, S$ custom intercooler, and #36 injectors.

Aren't the stock injectors 36# units?
BTW, I've found that the best thing to do on the MKIV is to leave the stock manifold on there rather than going with a short runner:
1) With a plastic manifold heat soak is not very likely to occur on the plenum located over the exhaust.
2) VW spent plenty of money tuning variable runner lengths to operate over the rev range to make for a very well tuned intake tract, why screw that up?
3) If you're concerned about injector selection issues (or lack thereof) on the MKIV I think it is possible to adapt the lower MKIII manifold onto the upper MKIV manifold. This allows you to retain the variable runner length technology of the MKIV manifold for low end response and top end performance, retains the thermal advantage of the MKIV manifold, and finally opens your injector selection wide open to anything that you can put on an MKIII. I've not tried to do this yet but I've got an MKIII lower intake manifold so when the time is right it will be an option.


----------



## albuht (Nov 15, 2000)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

I'm planning on ordering this kit next summer...i hope these issues get worked out till then.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_Aren't the stock injectors 36# units?
BTW, I've found that the best thing to do on the MKIV is to leave the stock manifold on there rather than going with a short runner:
1) With a plastic manifold heat soak is not very likely to occur on the plenum located over the exhaust.
2) VW spent plenty of money tuning variable runner lengths to operate over the rev range to make for a very well tuned intake tract, why screw that up?
3) If you're concerned about injector selection issues (or lack thereof) on the MKIV I think it is possible to adapt the lower MKIII manifold onto the upper MKIV manifold. This allows you to retain the variable runner length technology of the MKIV manifold for low end response and top end performance, retains the thermal advantage of the MKIV manifold, and finally opens your injector selection wide open to anything that you can put on an MKIII. I've not tried to do this yet but I've got an MKIII lower intake manifold so when the time is right it will be an option.









I think the oem injectors are more like 20#.
I disagree about the plastic intake manifold. That plastic gets wicked hot in my engine bay especially around the turbo. Even with the low thermal conductivity of the plastic, it can get hot enough to burn your skin! Obviously its going to be better than the metal MkIII intake, but an SRI that doesn't even come close to the exhaust is going to be the best. The added benefit of the SRI is that there is more airflow over the top of the engine, especially if you remove the rai-tray seal.
Also, the turbo totally changes the torque curve, so the benefits of the variable intake won't be as pronounced. But I agree that an SRI is not good for low-end torque.
Have you done any dyno testing with your different manifolds yet?



_Modified by phatvw at 11:53 PM 6-12-2006_


----------



## rs4-380 (Dec 12, 2000)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_
2) VW spent plenty of money tuning variable runner lengths to operate over the rev range to make for a very well tuned intake tract, why screw that up?


yes but they spent plenty of money tuning it for a naturally aspirated engine. Running boost changes everything. 

It's like saying they spent plenty of money coming up with the sotck compression ratio, so why would you need to change it?


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_
Aren't the stock injectors 36# units?


Stock Mk4 12v inj. flow ~195cc/min.
-Jeff


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_Stock Mk4 12v inj. flow ~195cc/min.
-Jeff

195cc/min = 18.5#/hour ?


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

since Kinetic already told me I won't be receiving any instructions with the kit, I'd like to know what I should do about my TB when I have the kit installed... Clay?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_since Kinetic already told me I won't be receiving any instructions with the kit, I'd like to know what I should do about my TB when I have the kit installed... Clay?

I have an idea about that.









See that long black vertical tube right next to the brake reservoir? That is the dump-tube from the diverter valve. What you need to do is slice and tap that tube. You should be able to get an aluminum piece that basically is a "T" with a little nipple protruding. Then split one of the vacuum hoses from the intake manifold, and attach it to the nipple.
There is a second black tube that runs horizontal out the other side of the diverter valve. You could probably use that as well. The only difference is that one is pre-compressor, and one is post-compressor. Since this line will only be in use at idle when there is no boost, it shouldn't matter which one you use.
You could probably tap the crank-case venting tube (big black tube on-the left. That would be a lot easier for plumbing.
Here is how you can test this out before cutting tubes:
Install everything without drilling the TB. Detach one vacuum line and leave it dangling in the air - the diverter valve vaccum hose is good because it doesn't do anything at idle. Start the engine. If there is enough airflow through that dangling vacuum line, then the engine won't stall. If the engine stalls, you'll need to drill the TB. BTW this test will most likely give you a CEL because you're sucking in more air than what the MAF measured. Once you hookup the line to an appropriate nipple, you shoudl be good to go.
I believe EIP also drills the throttle body for their kits. Or they run really high fuel pressure on oem injectors - at least on the kits that use oem engine management.


_Modified by phatvw at 10:23 AM 6-13-2006_


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

i have the most recent software from c2 with this kit ,,, and there is no idle problems at all....i did not drill or tap into any thing.
the car runs like stock. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
195cc/min = 18.5#/hour ?

yeah , balpark.

-Jeff


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

kinetic told me yesterday they weren't sure if I needed to drill it or not, and to see if it runs when I install the software... but it looks like dtm says it will be ok, so... okay!


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_kinetic told me yesterday they weren't sure if I needed to drill it or not, and to see if it runs when I install the software... but it looks like dtm says it will be ok, so... okay!









its more than ok its awsome....even at 14-15 psi no problems..


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (dtm337)*

what injectors are you using for 14-15 psi? what C/R? any dyno numbers? stock fuel pump? tell me moreee










_Modified by Soupuh at 9:23 AM 6-15-2006_


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_what injectors are you using for 14-15 psi? what C/R? any dyno numbers? stock fuel pump? tell me moreee









_Modified by Soupuh at 9:23 AM 6-15-2006_

36# inj. ~lowered compression
custom 'TOP HAT' pump. (large turbine fuel pump)
-Jeff


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

soupah your CC is workin now


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dtm337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dtm337* »_i have the most recent software from c2 with this kit ,,, and there is no idle problems at all....i did not drill or tap into any thing.
the car runs like stock. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Wow. Ok maybe I just need updated software!


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*

jeremy had to split it up into 2 payments.
yay yay yay


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

Yeah I had to call my credit card company security department to authorize it cause it was such a big purchase!


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (rs4-380)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rs4-380* »_
yes but they spent plenty of money tuning it for a naturally aspirated engine. Running boost changes everything. 

It's like saying they spent plenty of money coming up with the sotck compression ratio, so why would you need to change it?

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying when you say running boost changes everything. Since you are nowhere near the surge limit with the kinetic kit, running your stock manifold would be great because you retain great response when out of boost. Then, when you're in boost the benefits of runner length tuning becomes much less important because the heimholtz effect is much more profound on a naturally aspirated engine when compared to an engine on boost. Therefore, other than the benefit of injector selection or simplicity of plumbing all you're doing by getting a short runner intake manifold is sacrificing off boost response.
I can only really see a short runner becoming truly beneficial, as in worth the money, when you run a large enough turbo with enough boost to require larger ports to avoid compressor surge.
As of wether or not I've tested my other manifold setups yet the answer is no. I've had some major financial setbacks recently that have somewhat hindered my ability to proceed with manifold testing. I would like to thank the infamous unreliability of VW's for that. 
Anyway, SRI manifolds are VERY popular right now, I'm just trying to keep everyone in check about wether they are really necessary or beneficial for their particular application or if it is really just that they WANT a short runner intake manifold. Other than that, if the aforementioned conditions in a boosted application are met, then by all means get a short runner. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

wow i agree with that ,,,,sri are good for 400+ hp situations,,,i dont see any benifit on non race applications http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (dtm337)*

On MK4 12v cars the short runner is not 'really' used for performance.
I install them because the stock manifold will ~break if you
try to run too much boost. My personal limit is ~15psi boost.
(~nice for 36# inj)









-Jeff


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_On MK4 12v cars the short runner is not 'really' used for performance.
I install them because the stock manifold will ~break if you
try to run too much boost. My personal limit is ~15psi boost.
(~nice for 36# inj)









-Jeff

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_On MK4 12v cars the short runner is not 'really' used for performance.
I install them because the stock manifold will ~break if you
try to run too much boost. My personal limit is ~15psi boost.
(~nice for 36# inj)









-Jeff

werd


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

Note: A good example of what a stock manifold can handle is EIP's 700bhp R32. Yes, that's right... that car is now at 700bhp. EIP derived that number from somewhere in the neighborhood of 570-580 awhp.


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

how much fuel can a stock mk4 fuel pump handle? Will I max the 36# injecotrs that come with the kit first, or the pump?
btw kit arrives Thursday !


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

you'll need an inline pump if you past ~10-12psi boost.

I don't reccomend even going past ~6 psi without an IC on pump gas.
The stock compression is a 'tad' high for real boost.









-Jeff


_Modified by Jefnes3 at 8:39 PM 6-20-2006_


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

~ok, ~I see what you ~mean.
~Thanks~~~~


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## IIVR6II (Feb 2, 2005)

sound clip!!!!!!! sound clip plzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (IIVR6II)*

Here you go
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
*RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR*
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
pssssh


----------



## VR6225 (May 9, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Here you go
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
*RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR*
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
pssssh
















Just put a kit on an MK3 and ordered one for my buddys MK4. Should be here sometime next week ... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (VR6225)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6225* »_















Just put a kit on an MK3 and ordered one for my buddys MK4. Should be here sometime next week ... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


check your IM


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*

It has arrived!!!!!!!!!!!! Cant get started on install tell next weekend though! Very nice welds on the piping, seems to be good quality so far.....pics to come when i start the install...good luck to everyone else!


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (nubVR)*

Def. keep this updated with pics. I have a funny story...I was taking my car to get read pads and some minor work done before i ordered this turbo later that day. I get a call from the shop and they requested i come down there. I show up and my body kit is in pieces, my car had fallen off the lift at full height when they pulled the rear tires. So as soon as i get her back im ordering this kit up. I'm going to be installing this myself also so any pics,help,hints would be awesome as you go through the install yourself.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (nubVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nubVR* »_It has arrived!!!!!!!!!!!! Cant get started on install tell next weekend though! Very nice welds on the piping, seems to be good quality so far.....pics to come when i start the install...good luck to everyone else!
















Alright, another VR6T in Washington!!!
Feel free to give me a holler if you need help over the phone and whatnot. Give yourself PLENTY of time for the install
I recommend getting the following taken care of before you do the install:
upgrade the intake manifold switchover rod bushings to gruvenparts.com design. The turbo will just exacerbate any issues with that rod and you'll get serious rattling. See the FAQ for the DIY. Takes all of 15 minutes, and the $44 bushings are totally worth it.
oil temperature sensor. Even if you don't have gauges yet, while you have the intake manifold off, install an oil temp sensor on the top of the oil filter flange. Its a pain to get in there later. You may need an M10x1 splitter or a sensor relocation kit from 42draftdesigns.com depending on how you route the oil feed line for the turbo.
figure out what you're going to do with the throttle body. See my previous posts for options

After the install, try removing the rain-tray seal. You'll get better airflow through the engine bay and the turbo will cool faster when you park the car. The only downside is added engine noise. Also consider exhaust wrapping the upper 180° metal tube - it gets mighty hot!


_Modified by phatvw at 10:40 PM 6-21-2006_


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_Def. keep this updated with pics. I have a funny story...I was taking my car to get read pads and some minor work done before i ordered this turbo later that day. I get a call from the shop and they requested i come down there. I show up and my body kit is in pieces, my car had fallen off the lift at full height when they pulled the rear tires. So as soon as i get her back im ordering this kit up. I'm going to be installing this myself also so any pics,help,hints would be awesome as you go through the install yourself. 

Off of the lift???? holy $hit, i would be in jail right now for assault if i were you....good luck with that! And i will keep updates posted....i plan on takin my time and doing everything right, not just slappin it in to get it done....but there will be plenty of pics!


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Alright, another VR6T in Washington!!!
Feel free to give me a holler if you need help over the phone and whatnot. Give yourself PLENTY of time for the install
I recommend getting the following taken care of before you do the install:
upgrade the intake manifold switchover rod bushings to gruvenparts.com design. The turbo will just exacerbate any issues with that rod and you'll get serious rattling. See the FAQ for the DIY. Takes all of 15 minutes, and the $44 bushings are totally worth it.
oil temperature sensor. Even if you don't have gauges yet, while you have the intake manifold off, install an oil temp sensor on the top of the oil filter flange. Its a pain to get in there later. You may need an M10x1 splitter or a sensor relocation kit from 42draftdesigns.com depending on how you route the oil feed line for the turbo.
figure out what you're going to do with the throttle body. See my previous posts for options

After the install, try removing the rain-tray seal. You'll get better airflow through the engine bay and the turbo will cool faster when you park the car. The only downside is added engine noise. Also consider exhaust wrapping the upper 180° metal tube - it gets mighty hot!

_Modified by phatvw at 10:40 PM 6-21-2006_

thanks for the heads up, its great to learn all the little things from some one that has already delt with them.....
Im pretty sure i will do the rod bushings, thats an easy one....Oil temp is one of the first gauges on my list, i will have that at install time, and about the TB, i read the posts after you, and im hopin the newest software wont have the issue....i will give you some feed back on how that goes....or possibly be seein you at Waterwagens, and we can BS about it... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by nubVR at 5:01 PM 6-22-2006_


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (nubVR)*

If you are going to be taking lots of pics, def get some on the oil feed/return line install. That seems to be the only place there might be any confusion for me. That and the boost and vacuum lines for the wastegate and Diverter valve. I can't wait to get this kit.


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

I got my kit today as well. Asked specifically for black silicone tbing and got blue, but otherwise, it looks great.







I'll be installing it (well, a friend is going to do most of the work) next Friday, but I'll take pics then.
And we shouldnt have to drill our TB's... both Jeff and Kinetic said so


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

i should be getting my kit shortly. if i set my kit to run 10 psi (with stock compression) and put a FMIC should i be good? i've been reading if you put a FMIC then i'll be seeing a little less than 10 psi.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_i should be getting my kit shortly. if i set my kit to run 10 psi (with stock compression) and put a FMIC should i be good? i've been reading if you put a FMIC then i'll be seeing a little less than 10 psi. 

Yep! Just make sure to tell Jeff @ C2 Motorsports to put that program on your chip when you send in your ECU. I don't think the 6PSI program will work


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

so is C2 one of the places that does the flashing. kinetic told me to send my ecu to european performance labs in CT.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_so is C2 one of the places that does the flashing. kinetic told me to send my ecu to european performance labs in CT.

Yep C2 wrote the software and will do the flashing. I would talk to Kinetic about your plans for 10PSI before sending your ECU out...


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

I may be way off but I'm pretty sure there's no different program between 6 and 10 psi... only between different injectors... anyone?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_I may be way off but I'm pretty sure there's no different program between 6 and 10 psi... only between different injectors... anyone?

Shawn told me that the injectors on the 6PSI kit are 36# which are good for 300HP and 10PSI. If you go past 10PSI you need to either uprate the fuel pressure or get 42# injectors. Perhaps all you need is a boost controller... but I'd ask C2 and Kinetic about that.


----------



## BoiseMK1GTI (Jan 28, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

30# injectors are good to about 10-11psi, or about 280-300whp. The 36# injectors are good to about 13-14psi, or about 340whp. At least this is what I have been told. I am running 9psi non-intercooled on my 30# injectors just fine, and once I intercool it, I will do 11psi. So, to answer your question, yes, 10psi intercooled on 36# injectors will be just fine.
David


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (BoiseMK1GTI)*

do these kits come with a new high flow catalytic coverter? cause i started taking my exhaust manifold out and downpipe but the downpipe seems to be factory welded to the catalytic converter. there's no screws to disconnect the down pipe from the catalytic converter. i bought my car new from the dealer.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_do these kits come with a new high flow catalytic coverter? cause i started taking my exhaust manifold out and downpipe but the downpipe seems to be factory welded to the catalytic converter. there's no screws to disconnect the down pipe from the catalytic converter. i bought my car new from the dealer.









The kit does not come with a new cat. You have to slice off your original cat from the OEM downpipe and weld on a 2.5" v-band flange that mates with the kinetic downpipe. After that it is stock exhaust the rest of the way.
I am not sure if the flange is included with the kit. Probably not since different folks will have different exhaust systems. But let me tell you, cutting the cat out is a big pain in the ass! If you are considering getting a full cat-back exhaust installed, now is the time to do it. Otherwise you can check out the flanges here:
http://www.kineticmotorsport.c....html



_Modified by phatvw at 1:18 AM 6-25-2006_


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
The kit does not come with a new cat. You have to slice off your original cat from the OEM downpipe and weld on a 2.5" v-band flange that mates with the kinetic downpipe. After that it is stock exhaust the rest of the way.
I am not sure if the flange is included with the kit. Probably not since different folks will have different exhaust systems. But let me tell you, cutting the cat out is a big pain in the ass! If you are considering getting a full cat-back exhaust installed, now is the time to do it. Otherwise you can check out the flanges here:
http://www.kineticmotorsport.c....html
_Modified by phatvw at 1:18 AM 6-25-2006_

would my exhaust be too loud if i take the cat out and put a straight through pipe 3" from the downpipes to the exhaust.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_would my exhaust be too loud if i take the cat out and put a straight through pipe 3" from the downpipes to the exhaust.

Depends what you consider loud. I would not go cat-less. The kit uses the oem ECU and O2 sensors, so you might get a CEL without the cat. I would do 2.5" or 3" with an aftermarket high-flow cat and a dual muffler (aka resonator) system. Pad the trunk/hatch with lots of dynamat. Add the updated rear bumper valence with the cut-out so you can run a straight tip instead of turn-down. That is supposed to make things quieter in the cabin.
BTW the Kinetic downpipe is 2.5", so if you go 3" exhaust, you need to get a weld-in adapter.


_Modified by phatvw at 12:50 PM 6-25-2006_


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Depends what you consider loud. I would not go cat-less. The kit uses the oem ECU and O2 sensors, so you might get a CEL without the cat. I would do 2.5" or 3" with an aftermarket high-flow cat and a dual muffler (aka resonator) system. Pad the trunk/hatch with lots of dynamat. Add the updated rear bumper valence with the cut-out so you can run a straight tip instead of turn-down. That is supposed to make things quieter in the cabin.
BTW the Kinetic downpipe is 2.5", so if you go 3" exhaust, you need to get a weld-in adapter.

_Modified by phatvw at 12:50 PM 6-25-2006_
\
i thought with our mk4 cars, you disconnect the o2 sensors which should not have a CEL.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_\
i thought with our mk4 cars, you disconnect the o2 sensors which should not have a CEL.

Maybe you're right - I thought that was only on the MkIII...


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

No UNPLUGGED ANYTHING.
NO running CEL.
Once the turbo kit is installed and running, follow the factory guide(s) if/when you have a CEL.

-Jeff


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

if we decide to run a boost gauge, do we need this if the compressor housing isn't tapped?
http://www.atpturbo.com/Mercha...e=BCS


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_if we decide to run a boost gauge, do we need this if the compressor housing isn't tapped?
http://www.atpturbo.com/Mercha...e=BCS

No, just split a boost tube from from the intake manifold post-throttle-body (i.e. from the FPR, wastegate, or diverter valve.) If you are going to run a specific 2-stage boost controller that requires it, then you might consider tapping boost pre-throttle body. But for a boost gauge it isn't necessary.


_Modified by phatvw at 10:11 PM 6-25-2006_


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
The kit does not come with a new cat. You have to slice off your original cat from the OEM downpipe and weld on a 2.5" v-band flange that mates with the kinetic downpipe. After that it is stock exhaust the rest of the way.
I am not sure if the flange is included with the kit. Probably not since different folks will have different exhaust systems. But let me tell you, cutting the cat out is a big pain in the ass! If you are considering getting a full cat-back exhaust installed, now is the time to do it. Otherwise you can check out the flanges here:
http://www.kineticmotorsport.c....html
_Modified by phatvw at 1:18 AM 6-25-2006_

Yes the flange came with my kit. Gonna cut my downpipe, and weld it to the stock cat, untill i go 3" all the way....


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

hey Phat, what oil temps are you seein??? Just curious how hot its gonna be running....


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (nubVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nubVR* »_hey Phat, what oil temps are you seein??? Just curious how hot its gonna be running....

I've had my car in the shop and been taking care of a lot of other stuff. I gotta get that hooked up before I hit the racetrack though. I have my gauges in the dash and wires running to the engine bay, but they aren't hooked up to senders!!!



_Modified by phatvw at 4:15 PM 6-26-2006_


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

shawn at kinetic confirmed-- you don't need to remove your cat peromanently, jsut take it and weld some pipes that come with the kit to it, then put it back in. stop spreading lies, phatvw!


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_shawn at kinetic confirmed-- you don't need to remove your cat peromanently, jsut take it and weld some pipes that come with the kit to it, then put it back in. stop spreading lies, phatvw!









Oh we didn't remove it - we cut through the downpipe bits while it was on the car!!!!!! I helped the guys at Bug-aid hold the thing in place while they cut through with a hand-held reciprocating saw. Took like 15 minutes cause the blades kept going dull. I'm sure its easier to take it off and use a plasma cutter or something


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Is there any particular reason why Kinetic removed all of their VR6 turbo development videos from their website? I would really like to see more of that.


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

what gauges are necessary to run with a turbo kit. boost would probably be helpful, what about water temp, oil temp, oil psi. where does the M10x1 splitter go on the filter flange? where is the filter flange? if i put this splitter can i run just an oil psi gauge or both oil gauges?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_what gauges are necessary to run with a turbo kit. boost would probably be helpful, what about water temp, oil temp, oil psi. where does the M10x1 splitter go on the filter flange? where is the filter flange? if i put this splitter can i run just an oil psi gauge or both oil gauges?

Check out http://www.42draftdesigns.com for some neat solutions. You can do both gauges.
You want at least boost and oil temperature.
Optional would be water/coolant temperature - the MkIV does have a coolant gauges already, but it is far from accurate. 
EGT (exhaust-gas-temperature) is good. You need to weld a bung onto the Kinetic manifold. Shawn recommended putting it close to the cylinder #6 output which I think is on the passenger-side of the manifold
Air-fuel ratio is kind of useless since you can get it from VAG-COM and EGT is a much better diagnostic overall.
Voltmeter is kinda useless too unless you're running an aftermerket alternator and big stereo or something like that.
Oil PSI is ok, but the MkIV has a pressure sensor already and will sound an alarm if the PSI drops too low.

The oil filter flange is right above the oil filter. Ever changed your oil?







To get to it you need to either take off the lower intake manifold or move the radiator panel/lock carrier out from the car. There are write-ups on these in the Main MkIV FAQ. I think to install the new injectors you have to take the intake manifold off anyway, so that woudl be the best way to go.


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

*phatvw* you've been awesome in answering all my Q's. thanks man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_ *phatvw* you've been awesome in answering all my Q's. thanks man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks. Kinetic should be paying me


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Thanks. Kinetic should be paying me










this is true


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Oh we didn't remove it - we cut through the downpipe bits while it was on the car!!!!!! I helped the guys at Bug-aid hold the thing in place while they cut through with a hand-held reciprocating saw. Took like 15 minutes cause the blades kept going dull. I'm sure its easier to take it off and use a plasma cutter or something









Reciprocating saw, or sawzall is the easiest cleanest cut, to hard to get a perfect cut with a plasma...just get a good blade...just put a TTexhaust on my buddies 2.0T, took less then an hour...
And about oil temp, does anyone know why in the mk3's on the MFI display it had oil temp, but they took it out in the MK4's?....bastards!


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (nubVR)*

I'm looking into piecing together an intercooler and some piping. What would be a good diameter of piping to use, 2.5" or 3"?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_I'm looking into piecing together an intercooler and some piping. What would be a good diameter of piping to use, 2.5" or 3"?

Don't quote me on this, but I think you can probably use much smaller pipe than that. I believe the most restrictive part of the intake is the intercooler itself rather than the tubing. So I would try 2" and make it as short as possible. 2" should be much easier to route around engine accessories than 2.5".


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Ill have to check into it some more. I was just going to buy the core from kinetic and one of those generic piping kits off ebay and piece something together. Thanks for the input.


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

how do you use these http://www.kineticmotorsport.c....html







do you use the clamps to join two flanges together. so i can use the calmps instead of welding it?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_how do you use these http://www.kineticmotorsport.c....html







do you use the clamps to join two flanges together. so i can use the calmps instead of welding it?

Yes you use 2 flanges. One flange should already be welded to the downpipe. You weld the other flange to your CAT. Keep in mind that you may have to trim the flange and weld it at a slight angle because the OEM exhaust does not go straight through the tunnel. You will probably have to do some test-fitting to get it exactly right so it doesn't rattle around. Make sure you let your welding person know about this.
There is a thread on TDI club with great pictures...



_Modified by phatvw at 11:20 AM 6-28-2006_


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

for some reason i cant click that link but do these use a 3 or 4 bolt style flange or a v-band?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_for some reason i cant click that link but do these use a 3 or 4 bolt style flange or a v-band?

v-band:
http://www.kineticmotorsport.com/catalog/parts-bvband-clamps-flangesb-c-168_241.html


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

just got my ecu back from Jeff... starting the install late tomorrow night, hoping to be done saturday afternoon... having it done by a fellow vortex member who has done a few vrt's...

:-D !


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_just got my ecu back from Jeff... starting the install late tomorrow night, hoping to be done saturday afternoon... having it done by a fellow vortex member who has done a few vrt's...

:-D !

Nice. Make sure to take lots of pictures as you progress through the install.
http://****************.com/smile/star.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*

yup i've got a friend with a camera coming, and we're gonna try to stop by our local freeway looking completely legal test strip on the way home with his video camera


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

Just ordered mine online along with a MBC and Stewart Warner boost guage and pod! Can't wait for this thing to come.


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

i got a couple of Q's. 
1. what's the gap suppose to be on the NGK spark plugs that came with the kit?
2. if i run a wide band AFR gauge, if it's not on the right number, how would i be able to fix it. don't you need a standalone or something?
3. if i put a EGT gauge, what would i need. a bunge on the exhaust manifold and a o2 sensor cord same as the one by the cat?


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*

1. Plugs: OE spec is .028, I suggest .024-.026 (inches)
2. AFR: no way to adjust, the ecu uses the factory wideband
and trims the fuel, LIVE, all the time (including WOT).
Be sure to leave the 2ndary airpump installed an running.
also install a new front (wideband) O2 sensor if you have ~50k
miles or more on it. (cheap and go bad more often than narrowband)
3. egt gauge: egt bung needs to be installed (follow gauge instructions)
-Jeff


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

Ok so i started taking my front end apart in preparation for the install and tapping the oil filter flange seems kinda difficult. Do you drop it out or do it on the car? If you do have to drop it out how hard is that?

edit: ok so i did some reading and some say there is a plug on top of the housing that you take out and screw in a new fitting for the feed line. Now i still have the same question, can i do it on the car, or do i drop it out?


_Modified by 01VRSIXER at 3:49 PM 6-29-2006_


----------



## VR6225 (May 9, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

My buddies kit just showed up at my house today ... will be installing it next weekend http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_Ok so i started taking my front end apart in preparation for the install and tapping the oil filter flange seems kinda difficult. Do you drop it out or do it on the car? If you do have to drop it out how hard is that?

edit: ok so i did some reading and some say there is a plug on top of the housing that you take out and screw in a new fitting for the feed line. Now i still have the same question, can i do it on the car, or do i drop it out?

_Modified by 01VRSIXER at 3:49 PM 6-29-2006_

I think it is possible without disconnecting the flange from the engine. But you need a long ratchet extension and a deep 12mm socket. And you have to have the intake manifold off.
Can you do me a favour and take pics while you have everything apart? I am going to be installing an oil temp sensor there soon...


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

ill try and get some good pictures. i have the intake manifold/battery/intake/rad support/headlights all off at the moment.


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

when i clock the turbo, do i need to loosen the 6 bolts on the turbine and on the compressor. when i clock it, is there a chance that i can misalign the fins inside?


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*

Well i went in to work on my car today and i found the plug on top of the oil filter housing and its a realllly tight squeeze so im gonna see if i can move some stuff around to get a decent picture.


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

Ok...so if i plug the 42DD relocation kit into the blank plug on the oil filter housing then run my oil pressure guage and oil feed line off of the relocation kit will that work and if it can work will that provide enough pressure to get oil to the turbo?


_Modified by 01VRSIXER at 2:15 PM 7-1-2006_


----------



## igotaprestent4u (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

wonder why the kit doesnt come with an oil restrictor


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_Ok...so if i plug the 42DD relocation kit into the blank plug on the oil filter housing then run my oil pressure guage and oil feed line off of the relocation kit will that work and if it can work will that provide enough pressure to get oil to the turbo?


Hmmm thats what I was planning to do although now that I think about it, a better way might be to:
- run the oil feed-line direct off of one plug on the housing
- run the 42DD reloc kit off the other plug and then put the OEM pressure and VDO temp sensors on that


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Thats how they show it in their installation instructions on the webpage, but seeing as the VR6 doesnt come stock with a feed line theres that one empty plug and i thought instead of unhooking the stock sensor and relocating it leave that where it is and run the pressure guage and the feed line off the relocation. Only reason being besides being lazy is that its a really tight squeeze in there and i can imagine its a PITA to remove/reinstall stuff in there and it would be much easier on the relocation kit.
I'll give it a try and see what happens, unless I hear otherwise on here first.


----------



## igotaprestent4u (Nov 2, 2002)

update- car started, haven't drilled the tb yet and it idled poorly, but there is no cat or 02's... after we install that we'll see about this gay drilling the tb stuff


----------



## igotaprestent4u (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: (igotaprestent4u)*

just got back from the dyno with Soupuh's jetta.
~220whp and ~220wtrq @ 5psi unintercooled. 11.4a/f
soupuh has the dyno sheet, pics and vids to come soon


----------



## igotaprestent4u (Nov 2, 2002)

actually, boost gauge says a straight 4 psi. 93 degrees outside. feels good. more to come tonight


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (igotaprestent4u)*

So 220whp on 4psi or was it reading 5 during the dyno?


----------



## igotaprestent4u (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

4-4.5 psi on the boost guage.


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

yup, in a 90+ degree room... I do have autotech 262's though... i just got home, car feels pretty good... more to come later on.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_yup, in a 90+ degree room... I do have autotech 262's though... i just got home, car feels pretty good... more to come later on.

Good stuff guys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Told ya it was worth the wait


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

is there a reason why it's reading 4-4.5 psi and not 6? wasn't this kit suppose to be boosting 6 psi?


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

ha, good luck with that-- i bought one too, and i called back twice to make sure they included it, and they still forgot. they also sent me the wrong color hoses.


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

great...I placed my order online so maybe I will get lucky.


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

I have a few questions for those who have installed the kit or have some knowledge about it. Does the kit come with all the nuts/bolts/hose/Ts to tap the vaccum/boost lines?
My next quesion is about tapping h vaccum/boost lines for the wastegate and th DV. Where do you tap into it for the wastegate and where do you tap into it fo the DV? Thanks agian for all the helpful info in ths hread and I will try to contribute with pitures when i complete th install.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_I have a few questions for those who have installed the kit or have some knowledge about it. Does the kit come with all the nuts/bolts/hose/Ts to tap the vaccum/boost lines?
My next quesion is about tapping h vaccum/boost lines for the wastegate and th DV. Where do you tap into it for the wastegate and where do you tap into it fo the DV? Thanks agian for all the helpful info in ths hread and I will try to contribute with pitures when i complete th install.

It should come with everything. If you are running a boost gauge, you will need an additional "T".
On the back of the intake manifold there are 4 vacuum hoses coming out. You can tap any of those... however, the fuel-pressure regulator hose is really thin and hard to work with and the brake booster hose looks expensive with its built-in check valve. So I would use one of the others. You can use the same tap location for the DV and wastegate. Just run a bunch of "t's" or get a multi-tap vacuum thingy. Once you have all the hoses cut to the proper length, secure them with zip-ties.


_Modified by phatvw at 7:24 PM 7-2-2006_


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Thanks man, you've been a huge help. I'll ry and get those picture of the 42dd relocation kitwhen i get it all installed.


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

how the crap do you tighten the bolts underneath the exhaust manifold? there's barely enough room


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*

yea, we did that and then put the downpipe in, and it was a huge pain in the ass. had to remove a motor mount, and it still scratched my engine bay a bit.


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

what is an oil restricter for? where does it go and where do we get it?


----------



## VR6_00Jetta (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*

Soupuh:
Is this the right one for the Kinetic kit?
http://www.atpturbo.com/Mercha...e=OIL 
From ATP: Oil inlet restrictor for T series 1/8" NPT. Oil inlet restrictor for all T3, T3/T4, T04, T72 etc. Turbos with built-in oil restrictor (of .060 hole size). Installed at the oil inlet on turbo to reduce max oil pressure going into the turbo to prevent turbo seal damage due to excess pressure. Input is 1/8" NPT male and output is 1/8 NPT female.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_how the crap do you tighten the bolts underneath the exhaust manifold? there's barely enough room









There are some curved box end wrenches you can get at sears which might help...


----------



## VR6_00Jetta (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rippinralf* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Then, would it be fair to say that if you're going to run under 15psi boost about the only justification's for a SRI would be: cooler intake charge from MAF / TB repositioning; better / easier plumbing options for a IC; better option for larger injectors - at a later date?
Do you loose some mid-RPM response using a SRI with lower boost (<15psi)?
Thanks!


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (VR6_00Jetta)*

can someone pleae help me







what am i suppose to do in the first two pictures.........just cut it off and leave it like that. it doesn't show on kinetic's cd what to do next.
















also which way did you guys flow the out arrows here in the two fittings? the one he's pointing at and the one a little towards the right? out arrows both pointing the firewall or to the front?


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

is the tube in the first picture a vacuum line? I have a tube that is right to the right of the tb and above the coilpack that we just plugged with a screw. i beleive my installer said it had something to do with the gas tank fumes or something.... since it's monday, you might as well wait until kinetic opens and ask shawn


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (VR6_00Jetta)*

Then, would it be fair to say that if you're going to run under 15psi boost about the only justification's for a SRI would be: cooler intake charge from MAF / TB repositioning; better / easier plumbing options for a IC; better option for larger injectors - at a later date?
Do you loose some mid-RPM response using a SRI with lower boost (<15psi)?
Thanks!
Yeah that's right. This topic has been covered fairly intensely on this thread before. What you posted are the basic overall points that I would/did argue in favor of. If you want more detail just go back a few pages.


_Modified by dmiller9254 at 10:40 AM 7-5-2006_


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_can someone pleae help me







what am i suppose to do in the first two pictures.........just cut it off and leave it like that. it doesn't show on kinetic's cd what to do next.
















also which way did you guys flow the out arrows here in the two fittings? the one he's pointing at and the one a little towards the right? out arrows both pointing the firewall or to the front?









Ok I think your first 2 pics are of the crankcase venter heater element which you can remove no problem.
As for the check valves for the gastank vacuum lines, you want the arrows pointing INTO the intake manifold. Thats the way the vacuum goes. You do not want to boost the gastank!!!



_Modified by phatvw at 1:00 PM 7-3-2006_


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

Now I'm just patiently waiting for it to arrive. Hopefully it doesnt take too long.


----------



## GoDeepOrGoHome (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_Now I'm just patiently waiting for it to arrive. Hopefully it doesnt take too long.

did you order one of these kits?? are they actually ready for sale yet? i havent been staying updated in this forum and definatly dont want to read all the pages!
if so whats the price? and what stage did u get?
thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (GoDeepOrGoHome)*

I ordered up the Stage 1, which is all they offer at the moment for the MKIV. I paid 2950.00 for the kit with free shipping. It's coming on friday.


----------



## Edsquickvr6 (Apr 29, 2003)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

update when u get it installed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Je-Jetta! (Oct 28, 2003)

anyone in toronto or around toronto have this kit installed?? just wanna see what the pull is like and such.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Je-Jetta!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Je-Jetta!* »_anyone in toronto or around toronto have this kit installed?? just wanna see what the pull is like and such.

Drive an R32 - its kind of like that but even better. The R32 has more pull at low RPM, but the VR6T has more pull from 3000-7000 RPM









If you compare to stock, 3rd gear with turbo is like 2nd gear without
2nd gear with turbo is like 1st gear without
1st gear with turbo is just insane if you can get traction


----------



## Brett0712 (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Drive an R32 - its kind of like that but even better. The R32 has more pull at low RPM, but the VR6T has more pull from 3000-7000 RPM









If you compare to stock, 3rd gear with turbo is like 2nd gear without
2nd gear with turbo is like 1st gear without
1st gear with turbo is just insane if you can get traction










Get and LSD and 1st gear is INSANE!!!!!!!!


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

at 7.5 psi, open differential,i can barely squeek the tires with my 225/24/17 eagle f1 gsd3's... really grippy tire... 
I agree with the second gear feeling like 1st n.a, etc...


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_at 7.5 psi, open differential,i can barely squeek the tires with my 225/24/17 eagle f1 gsd3's... really grippy tire... 
I agree with the second gear feeling like 1st n.a, etc...

yeah I used to have the GSD3's. I miss them. They did very well, but overheated a bit on track and required very high PSI to prevent rolling over on the sidewall. Otherwise an excellent summer street tire!


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Just passed Washington State vehicle emission testing with the VR6T








This came in handy:
http://www.agthompsonfamily.co...s.doc


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Ok I think your first 2 pics are of the crankcase venter heater element which you can remove no problem.
As for the check valves for the gastank vacuum lines, you want the arrows pointing INTO the intake manifold. Thats the way the vacuum goes. You do not want to boost the gastank!!!
_Modified by phatvw at 1:00 PM 7-3-2006_

What did you guys end up doing with that hose(crank case ventilator). Also why does it need to be cut/removed?


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_
What did you guys end up doing with that hose(crank case ventilator). Also why does it need to be cut/removed?

from what shawn told me, that's just to clear the WG. it's touching my WG but not really in the way. i think it would be a good idea to cut it and raise it up a little though as for the other hose i think that should be cut and raised a little too, it's kind of close to the manifold.


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*

for those of you that were told to ship your ECU to european performance labs, how long did you have to wait total to get your ECU back? i don't now what's the deal with mine or what type of company kinetic decided to work with but i've been waiting for mine to come back for about two weeks now. it was shipped through priority mail on june 26th. how long does it really take to get an ECU flashed. from what they e-mailed me back, they need to check on how the individual is doing on my ECU and they'll give me an eta. WTF


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*

I sent mine Next Day Air last saturday and I included a prepaid Next Day air envelope to send it back. If it takes 2 weeks I'm not going to be very happy.


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

Sent my ECU saturday, Jeff recieved it tuesday and I will have it Thursday. 1 day turn-around is darn good in my book.

_Modified by 01VRSIXER at 4:00 PM 7-12-2006_


_Modified by 01VRSIXER at 4:24 PM 7-12-2006_


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

The other 2 ecus I ~had. Went to HI and WA. I got busy getting ready
for Waterfest. I shipped these overnight. for big bux ($45+ each) 
Everyone will be running this weekend. (if the mech. work is done)

-Jeff


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

jeff got my ecu back to me right when he said it would. my install depended on it


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

Sweet!!! Thanks jeff...... will be up and runnin saturday!


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (nubVR)*

Since this new kit comes with a MAF meter and my factory MAF meter just went out, I was wondering if someone might be willing to sell me their old one. IM me if you are interested.


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

it comes with a new maf housing, you reuse your old maf.
ecstuning sells the 2.0liter maf, you can take the senor out of that and it works just fine on the vr6's as well. same part #'s


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## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

the 3" hose that came with the kit that connects to the compressor and intake, what angle/degree is that?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_the 3" hose that came with the kit that connects to the compressor and intake, what angle/degree is that?

It is a 180° bend by the looks of it!








Wait, thats the 2" pipe. Are you talking about the part that connects to the filter?


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

i'm talking about the 3" inlet/outlet silicone hose that's connected to the turbo to the air intake tubing. (it's the other tubing below that one in the picture)
also, did everyone with this kit drill a hole in their throttle body?


_Modified by 2k1 vr6 at 10:18 AM 7-30-2006_


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_
also, did everyone with this kit drill a hole in their throttle body?


yes. i used a 15/64 bit.... most people just do 1/4 inch


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

So my boost gauge stopped working and my car started running funny... turns out the vacuum line directly above the turbo melted.... This was right after I was messing around up there, so I have no doubt it pushed it down there too close to the turbo, but either way, it's hot down there! Looking into some heatwrap now... any suggestions on a nice turbo blankie made for this turbo exaclty?


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

*imagine* that in this picture the DV is a f*orged 007 DV*. would the psshhh sound be louder the way that it's mounted now or backwards?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_So my boost gauge stopped working and my car started running funny... turns out the vacuum line directly above the turbo melted.... This was right after I was messing around up there, so I have no doubt it pushed it down there too close to the turbo, but either way, it's hot down there! Looking into some heatwrap now... any suggestions on a nice turbo blankie made for this turbo exaclty?

Yeah the tube going to my boost gauge started to melt a bit too. No boost leak... yet. http://www.evolutionsports.com has a universal turbo diaper thing for $100. Its supposed to work pretty well.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_*imagine* that in this picture the DV is a f*orged 007 DV*. would the psshhh sound be louder the way that it's mounted now or backwards?


My 710c is plenty loud - I don't know why you'd want it to be louder. Its so annoying already. Just like a droning 3" exhaust, that Psssh sound gets old in like 10 minutes.


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*

mines not old yet, but its loud enough.
i did try turning it around - sounded barely different, no louder, and more like a hurt animal. a definite downgrade.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

BTW any of your guys taken your VRT onto the drag strip yet? I was able to get a [email protected] and 2.2 60' all stock a couple years ago. With the turbo I got [email protected] with a 2.4 60'. 
CEL was on and engine bay was HOT... excuses excuses.
Bottom line is I suck!
I expect a 2.0 60' and [email protected] on street tires is possible if you know what you're doing.



_Modified by phatvw at 6:58 PM 7-31-2006_


----------



## VR6OOM (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_BTW any of your guys taken your VRT onto the drag strip yet? I was able to get a [email protected] and 2.2 60' all stock a couple years ago. With the turbo I got [email protected] with a 2.4 60'. 
CEL was on and engine bay was HOT... excuses excuses.
Bottom line is I suck!
I expect a 2.0 60' and [email protected] on street tires is possible if you know what you're doing.
_Modified by phatvw at 6:58 PM 7-31-2006_

Did you dyno yet?


----------



## SlowMotion (Jun 9, 2002)

is anyone running a stage 2 yet ?


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (hotshotz16v)*

i plan on going to the strip tomorrow, but it's supposed to be a high of 96 degrees.... but i ran a 15.2 before turbo and the car feels so much faster I have high hopes...
i might run some race gas, and boost will be at atleast 7 psi


_Modified by Soupuh at 12:01 AM 8-1-2006_


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (VR6OOM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6OOM* »_Did you dyno yet?

227 [email protected] RPM, 234 [email protected] RPM


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_
i might run some race gas, and boost will be at atleast 7 psi


Race gas should help a LOT. With high temps and the high MkIV compression, the ignition timing gets retarded big time! Make sure to drain the tank of your regular gas - run till empty, then drive for another 20 miles








I want to try the torco fuel enhancer stuff: http://www.torco.com/cart.php?...&p=12


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## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (hotshotz16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hotshotz16v* »_is anyone running a stage 2 yet ?

yep i am ..stage 2 ....soon im going to the 680cc injectors
gt30/71 witha 86 ar ,,,,soon i hope i need to talk to jeff.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dtm337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dtm337* »_yep i am ..stage 2 ....soon im going to the 680cc injectors
gt30/71 witha 86 ar ,,,,soon i hope i need to talk to jeff.

But not an official stage 2 kit







Shawn hasn't even started on those yet. Spoke to him at Waterwagens on Sunday and he said perhaps he'll invite me to beta test stage 2 at the end of the summer. I'm hoping it will include a head spacer AND an intercooler. What do you think - 275WHP @10PSI on 36# injectors without upgraded fuel pump?



_Modified by phatvw at 11:13 AM 8-1-2006_


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

hmm well i had the 1st official stage 1 kit ever from kinetic...
and i guess your right ,,,about the 2 ...i do have an intercooler and head spacer as well
but not made by them so my stage 2 is a hybrid i guess



_Modified by dtm337 at 7:09 PM 8-1-2006_


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## VR6OOM (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Race gas should help a LOT. With high temps and the high MkIV compression, the ignition timing gets retarded big time! 


Same with MKIII. The timing retard is really high! You can really see it on my dyno...215whp. But damn I swear it's in the high 230's when it's below 80 degrees out. It's NIGHT and DAY!


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dtm337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dtm337* »_hmm well i had the 1st official stage 1 kit ever from kinetic...
and i guess your right ,,,about the 2 ...i do have an intercooler and head spacer as well
but not made by them so my stage 2 is a hybrid i guess
_Modified by dtm337 at 7:09 PM 8-1-2006_

You may have had the first kit, but I had the first _production_ kit cause Shwan changed a bunch of stuff based on my feedback so there








But seriously can you please post pics? Where did you get the head spacer? Is it the same one that is used on the MkIII VR6? Are you using the 36# injectors? What PSI? OEM fuel pump? Dyno/track results?


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
You may have had the first kit, but I had the first _production_ kit cause Shwan changed a bunch of stuff based on my feedback so there








But seriously can you please post pics? Where did you get the head spacer? Is it the same one that is used on the MkIII VR6? Are you using the 36# injectors? What PSI? OEM fuel pump? Dyno/track results?


c2 head spacer 36# injectors 16psi / c2 gt 40 fuel pump/ top mount intercooler....


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

just got back from the racetrack... it was ~85 degrees during my best run, 14.5x @ 101.x - 7-8 psi, 2.35 60'. 94 octane gas, no race gas available tonight...
all my runs were between 15-14.5, and 97-101 mph... the et isnt what I hoped for, but the mph sure is


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

is anybody getting a small surge when the thottle is just cracked?
like cruising ?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dtm337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dtm337* »_is anybody getting a small surge when the thottle is just cracked?
like cruising ?

My throttle is sometimes really sensitive for the first half inch or so. Its like
nothing...
nothing...
nothing...
heeeeelllo!
A throttle body alignment in vag-com ought to help.


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

hmmm ill try that...


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (dtm337)*

i get a boost surge that worries me... if i have it at 7 psi, it's down to 6 by redline, etc. at the track it was 9psi at 4k, and maybe 7.5psi at 6.5k... bugs me


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
But not an official stage 2 kit







Shawn hasn't even started on those yet. Spoke to him at Waterwagens on Sunday and he said perhaps he'll invite me to beta test stage 2 at the end of the summer. I'm hoping it will include a head spacer AND an intercooler. What do you think - 275WHP @10PSI on 36# injectors without upgraded fuel pump?
_Modified by phatvw at 11:13 AM 8-1-2006_

It ofcourse depends on so many variables to give a definite answer, but most VRT's I've seen running 10psi with perhaps a 9:1 head spacer are able to break the 300whp mark with 36# injectors and no upgraded fuel pump. That should put you in competition with stage 3 SRT-4's... the advertised power for the mopar kit is bhp and it translates closer to a 300whp mark. It would be interesting to compare performance numbers. In my mind the stage 3R SRT-4 has become the benchmark of comparison for a 10+psi boosted VR. One thing is certain though, all other variables held constanst, even a moderately boosted (7+psi) VRT should spank a stock SRT-4 all day long. If you guys ever get bored with adding assloads of power with turbos, I would recommend a couple very helpful VR mods:
1) Remove every bit of weight possible (applicable for all performance nuts regardless of vehicle)
2) Change the ring and pinion to something more sporty. I got the Eurospec 02J after breaking my 3rd 02J (stock motor!!!) with the 3.94 R&P. The gas mileage blows, but the acceleration improvement is worth it.
3) A mild set of cams like Autotech 262s. They're VERY reasonably priced and the improvement in VE on a turbo motor can be very rewarding with new cams.
4) Finally, a nice affordable way to cut down on parasitic losses in a non-compromising manner is to purchase a crank scraper from VWmotorsports (in the US that translates to bildon motorsports). A 10% upper RPM power gain sounds nice to me for 100 bucks and a few hours of labor.
I'm kind of curious what other people think. What is the weakest link in the VR6 powerplant (exluding the tranny... I know that it is weak better than most---> I'm on my 4th 02J within 6 years on a very near stock VR6).


----------



## VR6OOM (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_
I'm kind of curious what other people think. What is the weakest link in the VR6 powerplant (exluding the tranny... I know that it is weak better than most---> I'm on my 4th 02J within 6 years on a very near stock VR6). 

Wow do you drag / bang gears a lot? Mine has 102,000 miles (02A) and shifts sooo smooth. I had 2 MK4 owners drive my car because they didn't believe. I guess it's all on how it's driven? Will an 02A bolt up to the MK4 VR6?


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (VR6OOM)*

If it is the 12V MKIV VR6 the 02A should bolt right up because the block is the same and therefore shared the same bolt pattern. However, the 02J is still supposedly the strongest of the VW transaxle 5 speeds. What happened to me is out of the ordinary, most people with 02J's don't have as many problems as I do. When I first got the car it was already on its second tranny at less than 20K miles (which I didn't know until the second tranny blew). The second tranny let go while doing about 100mph around a long sweeper in NY (while I was on vacation... booooo!). Finally I got serious with the third tranny: it was built with an EIP tuning 400hp capable clutch, an EIP tuning reinforced clutch fork, an EIP tuning 02J short shifter, an EIP tuning 02J dogbone mount, and the diamond that should bless all VW transaxles: the Peloquin LSD (also purchased from EIP tuning). I always ran heavy redline synthetic in there and that tranny could handle ANYTHING I threw at it; for the first 1.5 years anyway. I actually have a thread about what happened, but long story short, two pelolock bolts broke, took out several teeth of the ring gear, and machined their way a considerable amount into the differential housing. When we finally got it all apart we discovered that the pelolock bolts had been holding on for dear life at nearly half of the specified torque setting... I won't be taking it back to that tranny builder, even though it wasn't really his fault--There was a mis communication between Gary and my tranny builder about the proper ring gear installation instructions. Now six things will be different in the BRAND NEW (first time I've ever had a BRAND NEW tranny) Eurospec 02J:
-- The 3.94 ring and pinion
-- I'm switching to ARP ring gear hardware (which Gary Peloquin is personally installing on the diff, BTW let me just take a moment to attest to the incredible durability of that differential. Even after the incident the only noticeable difference in the way the car drove was a horrible noise and a slight jerkiness from the ring gear; in other words the differential was completely unscathed)
-- A stock clutch is going back in to reduce harsh loading of the tranny
-- A new dieselgeek short shifter has replaced the EIP short shifter (amazing short shifter!!!, worth every penny)
-- The stock axles have been tossed in lieu of a set of EMPI heat treated units.
-- I am running even HEAVIER redline synthetic (heavy enough to make the gears audible) it is the shockproof gear oil designed specifically for hard shifting (chose due to the snick-snickness of the new short shifter). It may not be the best at reducing parasitic drivetrain loss, but it adheres to the gears like **** on a stick and makes the job of the synros slightly easier.
After writing this and reading it over, it is no mystery to me why the guys around the shop occasionally refer to me as "The Tranny Killer"
I think I have the shop record


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

Wow dude! I finally got my car back on the road. Been having tranny problems myself. It all turbed out to be a worn 4th gear and syncros. 4th gear can you beleive it???
For anyone doing tranny modding, I highly recommend against a lightenend flywheel. Too noisy and cuts down the luxury feel of the car considerably. Also, I would not go with a multi-puck clutch disc. Go with an oem style cluth disc and upgraded pressure plate - kinda like the Sachs power clutch kits. If you have to get a multi-puck clutch disc for say drag racing, make sure it has a sprung center instead of solid to cut down on the drivetrain shock effect.
The peloquin differential has to be the best possible mod aside from the turbo itself!


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Wow dude! I finally got my car back on the road. Been having tranny problems myself. It all turbed out to be a worn 4th gear and syncros. 4th gear can you beleive it???
For anyone doing tranny modding, I highly recommend against a lightenend flywheel. Too noisy and cuts down the luxury feel of the car considerably. Also, I would not go with a multi-puck clutch disc. Go with an oem style cluth disc and upgraded pressure plate - kinda like the Sachs power clutch kits. If you have to get a multi-puck clutch disc for say drag racing, make sure it has a sprung center instead of solid to cut down on the drivetrain shock effect.
The peloquin differential has to be the best possible mod aside from the turbo itself!

I think that lightenED flywheels (as in modified stockers) stink from their conception, but I think that if you're going all out, an originally L/W flywheel can be nice. The key is to not go so light that the car stalls every time you let out the clutch below 4000RPM!!! A very fair compromise, in my experience, is the billet steel autotech flywheel. I've had it in my car for awhile and the engine is livelier without too much sacrifice in day to day driving. The multipuck clutch thing is absolutely true. In my experience, in day to day driving, the multipuck racing clutches are WAY too harsh. Mine got so bad that I could chirp in third gear (on a stock motor) and it made a machining noise every time I tried to smoothly engage the clutch. I'll let you use your imagination about how the stock flywheel looked when I pulled this sucker out. The stock disc mated with a heavy duty pressure plate should hold all the power a street car needs to have.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmiller9254* »_The stock disc mated with a heavy duty pressure plate should hold all the power a street car *needs* to have.

Needs vary...


----------



## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

Intresting stuff guys..Im running a modded mk3 kinetic kit pushin out anywhere from 300-350 whp with a stock tranny







Soon be droped and upgraded..I currently have a TT 13.5lbs flywheel. More of a sport flywheel..I can bearly feel the clutch when i press the clutch pedal..My plans for the tranny upgrad is a Peliquin diff with ARP bolts\hardware..A spec stage 3 clutch, possibly a TDI 5th gear since this will be the time to do so..and a raceshop presure plate..I hear its very durable..The presure plate is the only thing im not sure about..as far as how its going to affect things..performance wise..and feel wise?? what do you guys think..


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (Vdubsolo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vdubsolo* »_Intresting stuff guys..Im running a modded mk3 kinetic kit pushin out anywhere from 300-350 whp with a stock tranny







Soon be droped and upgraded..I currently have a TT 13.5lbs flywheel. More of a sport flywheel..I can bearly feel the clutch when i press the clutch pedal..My plans for the tranny upgrad is a Peliquin diff with ARP bolts\hardware..A spec stage 3 clutch, possibly a TDI 5th gear since this will be the time to do so..and a raceshop presure plate..I hear its very durable..The presure plate is the only thing im not sure about..as far as how its going to affect things..performance wise..and feel wise?? what do you guys think..

With the amount of power you're putting down, and duration in mind, I would recommend using a stock disc with a heavy duty pressure plate and upgraded clutch fork. The ARP bolts are wise, I had a tranny ending experience recently with the Pelolocks. Gary is working on an updated hardware kit that eliminates the taper altogether (which may be even better than ARP) but until it comes out, ARP is your best bet. With that pressure plate: don't forget to upgrade the clutch fork!!! The stock clutch fork has been known to bend under loads exerted by heavy duty pressure plates. EIP tuning is the only tuning company that I know of that offers this item... get one. From experience I can say that pedal feel will be significantly different than stock once you break the clutch in (assuming that you get the heavy duty pressure plate).


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

I picked up an EIP clutch fork for $100 when I replaced my clutch just in case. Its just a reinforced stock unit... i.e. more welds to supoort it with an extra piece of metal welded in.


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

is somethiing wrong with my kit. am i suppose to be spooling in first gear? i took it to 3500rpm on first but no spooling. it spools in second gear. but somtimes, it doesn't want to spool up in second gear at 3500rpm. is this considered lag


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*

is the waste gate on backwards?


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

are you flooring it?
doesnt make much boost if you don't floor it... the first time I drove the car I thought it sucked, but then i figured out how to drive it right and now i love it


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_is somethiing wrong with my kit. am i suppose to be spooling in first gear? i took it to 3500rpm on first but no spooling. it spools in second gear. but somtimes, it doesn't want to spool up in second gear at 3500rpm. is this considered lag









The engine speed at which the turbo begins to produce above atmospheric pressure in the intake tract is not a function of what gear you're in, but is rather a function of engine speed and load. The first place to check when experiencing lag issues would be the intake tract on the pressurized side of the turbo. If you don't find any leaks there, check the wastegate to ensure that it is tightened down, the gasket is not leaking, it has a proper spring in it, and if you are using a boost controller ensure that your reference lines are not leaking. If you are still having problems I would recommend that you troubleshoot the turbo (as in bearings), the ignition system (you can moniter spark advance/retard with a VAG tool), the EFI system (again, you can moniter fuel trim with a VAG tool), and engine load via MAF meter (more of the same).


----------



## tashistation (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

I just read through this whole thread. 
Wow







thanks for all the great info dmiller9254,phatvw, guys @ C2..
I am so hyped to get this kit and will be purchasing one in a month.


----------



## unknownsoldier (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (tashistation)*

I'm over here in Springfirld MO and got my kit and installed it last week. WOW! I'm very pleased with the workmanship of all the parts and how easy it was to install. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for KINETICS! Great programing too. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to EUROPEAN PERFORMANCE LABS for there very quick service.
Damn thing pulls like a freight train! I love it. Here are some pics...enjoy


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (unknownsoldier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *unknownsoldier* »_










Love the costco battery







What did you use to coat the intake manifold and the 180° tube black?


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (unknownsoldier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *unknownsoldier* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for KINETICS! Great programing too. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to EUROPEAN PERFORMANCE LABS for there very quick service.


EPL is just a 'mail stop' for me to get the ecu.
Infact, Tony, (EPL 'big guy') was in Ireland, likely drinking
a Black & Tan







when your ecu arrived.

-Jeff


----------



## unknownsoldier (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (phatvw)*








you noticed the battery







I'm a dubber on a budget


----------



## unknownsoldier (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (unknownsoldier)*

I have a couple questions for you guys if you could help me out it would be great ...here goes
On an average what are your multiplicative and additive trim values? 
The reason I ask is my ADD values are stuck on 4.5% no matter what I do and my MULTI values during part throttle will be at 11%-12.5% then when I go WOT , or when boost hits, they instantly jump down to 0.0%. When I go from WOT to part throttle it instantly goes to 11%-12.5% again. Is this something that is part of the "NEW" programing or a problem? BTW during all this the car feels like great and A/Fs look good. 14-mid 13% on part throttle and 12-mid 11% on WOT. This done on an LM1 wideband.
How much VAC, on an average, do we pull at idle?
Thanks!


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (unknownsoldier)*

The 'multi' trim has actually two values.
This is why you see a 'switch'.
All nomal.

-Jeff


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

my car dies out somtimes when i fire it up unless i give it some gas. should i drill a bigger hole in the throttle body?


----------



## unknownsoldier (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_my car dies out somtimes when i fire it up unless i give it some gas. should i drill a bigger hole in the throttle body?

Do you have a bov or dv? I ran a bov for a while and the car ran http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif . I had the same symptoms as yours. Just throwing it out there.


----------



## unknownsoldier (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_The 'multi' trim has actually two values.
This is why you see a 'switch'.
All nomal.

-Jeff


Thanks Jeff! This is obviously something new based on the new software right? Just curious.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (unknownsoldier)*

Nope, its alwasy been there. (OEM)
-Jeff


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

So I noticed last night that if I have the boost set at 9 psi via my turboxs mbc, it hits 9 psi at ~3.5k and goes down to about 6-7psi by redline. Is there anything I can do to help this? If i got a 8 psi wastegate spring, wouldn't it never go below 8 psi, thereby reducing this?


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

Manual boost controllers spike. I used to see a 25lb spike when running 19psi using a turbo xs mbc. My profec B doesn't spike whatsoever though.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_So I noticed last night that if I have the boost set at 9 psi via my turboxs mbc, it hits 9 psi at ~3.5k and goes down to about 6-7psi by redline. Is there anything I can do to help this? If i got a 8 psi wastegate spring, wouldn't it never go below 8 psi, thereby reducing this? 

If you are running an 8 psi spring, your boost should never go ABOVE 8 psi without the use of a boost controller. Try bypassing the boost controller completely to see if your spring will indeed hold 8 psi.


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

profec b spec 2 is my best Friend http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_So I noticed last night that if I have the boost set at 9 psi via my turboxs mbc, it hits 9 psi at ~3.5k and goes down to about 6-7psi by redline. Is there anything I can do to help this? If i got a 8 psi wastegate spring, wouldn't it never go below 8 psi, thereby reducing this? 

where did you "T" in for the boost reference on the MBC and also your boost gauge? If they are not the same location try doing that and see what happens.


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

hmm... yeah the gauge is on the fpr vac line, and the mbc is connected to the wastegate and nearest line. I think I'll try a larger spring though


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_hmm... yeah the gauge is on the fpr vac line, and the mbc is connected to the wastegate and nearest line. I think I'll try a larger spring though

huh? I don't think its your spring size. I was able to hold 18psi with a 3psi spring on my tial 38mm WG. Sounds to me like your lines are setup incorrectly.


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

i just ordered a .6 bar spring to be done with it. 
anyway, i pull ~13 vacuum. what about you guys?


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_i just ordered a .6 bar spring to be done with it. 
anyway, i pull ~13 vacuum. what about you guys?

my vac is high 11's low 12's


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*

My vac goes down to -30 when I coast in 3rd gear at 70 mph








At idle its somewhere around -15 or -20. My idle is rough and the vac blips up and down with the tach.


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_i just ordered a .6 bar spring to be done with it. 
anyway, i pull ~13 vacuum. what about you guys?

about 17-20 at idle


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

my idle is also rough with blips, but I have autotech 262's as well. it's not nearly rough enough to worry about though- i was just worried my vac was too low at idle


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

How are those 262's working out with the software?


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

fine as far as i know, and the same compared to eip's stage 3 chip in terms of driveability, but since i had the cams before I put the turbo on, I have nothing to compare to...


----------



## mk2glifreak (Aug 2, 2006)

what kind of clutches are you guys using?


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (mk2glifreak)*

A sachs VR6 power clutch should be able to hold 300hp/300tq with no problems. Plus, when you get the sachs kit, you get great holding capacity without compromising drivability.


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

I have an oem clutch, feels great, and using the hp calcs online to my 1/4 time, I should be making 300 crank....


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

*Road race track report*
*100 octane race fuel makes a big difference:*
This car is too fast! I tried putting some 100 octane race fuel in there and it picks it up another notch. The turbo spools noticeably quicker and the torque is epic! It took me a while to remap my foot to the throttle pedal - managing this much torque through the corners is not easy even with a Peloquin differential.
*Need an oil cooler!!!!*
After about 6 laps flat out, the oil temps crept up to 260/270°F as reported by the oil drain plug sensor. Which means more like 280°F at the oil filter housing. So you NEED an oil cooler if you want to be serious on the race track with the turbo kit - just like Kinetic said. Driving Miss Daisy for 2 laps brings the temps down to about 230-240°F, but thats no fun. I just ordered the Dieselgeek cooler kit hopefully I'll have it installed before my next track day.
*Need better brakes*
Pre-turbo, I was able to hit 120MPH+ on the straight at Pacific Raceways. Now I'm hitting 135MPH+. Crazy-fast. But now my brakes need an upgrade. I boiled my ATE super-gold fluid and the Ferodo DS2500 pads overheated and left deposits on the 12.3" Audi TT rotors. Surprisingly the Hawk HPS pads on the rears are doing fine, although the rotors measured in at 400°F after a cool-down lap. I think brake ducts or perhaps curved vane/two-piece ECS rotors are in order. Perhaps Hawk blue race pads as well.
*Tires & Camber*
The Michelin Pilot Sports in 225/45/17 trim held up very well. I'm running about -1.5° camber on all 4 corners. Tire temps after the cool-down lap crept up to 135°F on the front and 105°F on the rear. The inside edge of the front tires were consistently 5° hotter than the middle/outer edges, so I have more than enough camber. Cold tire pressures were around 35PSI, and hot around 40PSI. I think the Peloquin differential helps even out tire wear since I'm not spinning the inside-front as much on corner exit.
























_Modified by phatvw at 7:54 PM 9-14-2006_


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_I have an oem clutch, feels great, and using the hp calcs online to my 1/4 time, I should be making 300 crank.... 

Word, stock clutch works great too for about that much power as long as you are not do clutch drops and stuff.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

100 octane fuel
Thank the C2 software as well. Using an OEM approach to tuning the car allows it to continually test for pre-ignition and advance/retard the timing and trim the fuel so that you get as close to a 100% burn and MBT as possible.
Oil cooler
Jim Royston builds good stuff. You've definitely got a good kit if that's what you ordered.
Better brakes
Well, that somewhat answers my question about wether to go with the Audi TT brake upgrade or the Neuspeed Gran Turismo upgrade. For a truly race-worthy braking system on the MKIV it is very difficult to put together a better kit than the Neuspeed Gran Turismo kit for less money that includes as much as it does.
Tires & camber
I know that the compound is important, but there's just something about the 225/45R17 size that really works well for the MKIV isn't there? I can also add that the stable feeling from a Peloquin is marvelous and confidence inspiring compared to stock. Ever since I've been without mine I feel really nervous about pushing the car too hard through a turn. Also, what's are you using to adjust camber in the front and rear?

_Modified by dmiller9254 at 10:18 PM 9-14-2006_


_Modified by dmiller9254 at 10:26 PM 9-14-2006_


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

I've got the Ground control plates in the front. No adjustment in the rear, -1.5° is just what they came with from OEM








I still think I can get more out of the Audi TT brake setup without spending a ton of extra cash. Brake ducts are the next step since I can probably fab something up for less than $50. That just might give me the edge to keep those front temps down.


----------



## VWeezly (Jul 5, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_I've got the Ground control plates in the front. No adjustment in the rear, -1.5° is just what they came with from OEM








I still think I can get more out of the Audi TT brake setup without spending a ton of extra cash. Brake ducts are the next step since I can probably fab something up for less than $50. That just might give me the edge to keep those front temps down.

For brake ducts, are you going use the TT fender liner:
http://www.parts4vws.com/catal...1172B


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (VWeezly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWeezly* »_
For brake ducts, are you going use the TT fender liner:
http://www.parts4vws.com/catal...1172B

Those don't really do much for the brakes - they just let moe air flow past the intercooler (1.8T) or secondary radiator (VR6). I was thinking more along the lines of 1.5" diameter tubes running from the lower valence to the axle hubs...


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Oil report*

So I did an oil analysis after 4300 miles/5 months on the turbo. I think I need to re-oil my filter. Either that, or I have a leak somewhere...











_Modified by phatvw at 7:36 PM 9-20-2006_


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: Oil report (phatvw)*

Idea for SMIC upgrade for this kit. Instead of going with a cumbersome front-mount intercooler that will likely be part of Kinetic stage two: What about a side-mount setup with both inlet and outlet pipes running up behind the battery with one of these:








http://www.treadstoneperforman...ooler
or
http://www.treadstoneperforman...ooler
They also have a piping kit:








http://www.treadstoneperforman...Steel
So you could be out the door with a solid intercooler kit for under $500.
Tyrolsport.com also has some nice side-mount intercoolers that might fit on the drivers-side, but they are a little more expensive
http://tyrolsport.com/b5SMIC.html


_Modified by phatvw at 10:23 AM 9-21-2006_


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: Oil report (phatvw)*

Hey Clay, we all know you are the one ghost-bumping the Kinetic turbo threads.
Quit it unless you're announcing new gear


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: Oil report (phatvw)*

gay


----------



## DMehalko(DM) (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Oil report (Soupuh)*

im about $1k away from this kit, almost there


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: Oil report (DMehalko(DM))*

you could always put youself into debt like I did


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Oil report (Soupuh)*

Im getting ready to buckle down and buy an intercooler with some misc. piping and a headgasket so I can finally bump up the boost. Anyone recommend a specific headgasket?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: Oil report (01VRSIXER)*

I'd call up C2Motorsports. They had a deal for gasket spacer + ARP head studs a while back. [email protected] said that you should actually do the spacer before the intercooler for widest tuning opportunities with the MkIV ECU.


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

hey dan did you wrap your DP yet? How are the temps looking? Any Different?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

No, just the turbo is wrapped. Didn't get around to doing the dp yet. I haven't really noticed much difference in temps. The engine bay is still bloody hot!


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

This kit is deceptive i think because of the smooth power delivery. I had a 'run in' on a _closed course_ with an Evo 9 and a 99 M3 from a second gear roll, about 30mph. The evo started a car ahead of me and by the end of 3rd gear was 2 cars back, the M3 was even further back. I was running 6.5PSI and it was about 40 degrees outside. Pretty good if you ask me.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

It's all about the area under the curve of the used rev range, my man.







Nice take downs by the way http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (dmiller9254)*

I assume our cars will take chipped 1.8t's?


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_I assume our cars will take chipped 1.8t's?

umm ya it should !!! if not head butt a steak knife....


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01VRSIXER* »_I assume our cars will take chipped 1.8t's?

And stock R32's too!


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*

and stock srt-4's, in my experience


----------



## VRptstyly (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

first i wanna say that read this whole thread and thank u for all the info. it has already answered so many question. the internet rocks!!haha. i do have a few remaining questions though. Ok to start i'm planning on running 12 psi, around there give or take, i know i'll need the headgasket and an intercooler, but my concern is the software will it handle the upped boost, or would i need to get a new flash. Secondly the intercooler, curious to know if anyone has some solution. I was thinkin maybe buyin an eip IC kit and just makin it work, but making one myself would prob be best. if anyone has made their own, what kind and how much piping was used..i.e.90bends,45bends..etc..


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

the software should handle it, but I don't know for sure if you injectors and fuel pump can. Fuel Pump you can upgrade, Injectors you need a SRI to upgrade. However, 10 psi will almost surely work, and that's pretty damn close.


----------



## vdubspeed88 (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_and stock srt-4's, in my experience

Forget that my car takes full bolt on srt4s like they are braking instead of gassing. I walked a modded ss trailblazer. and was even with a modded c6 corvette on the highway. Oh yeah and I beat my friends apr stage 3 plus that I installed for him on the highway. Your cars are a little heavier but should still haul___. 
I have a stage 2 kinetic kit running 10psi on my mk3. TIP invest in an intercooler.


----------



## VRptstyly (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

y do i need a sri to do bigger injectors? i read somewhere in this thread that the injectors would handle 12-15psi, just wasn't sure bout the software


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (VRptstyly)*

the mk4 12v kit includes 36# inj. these can support ~12-15psi boost.
(figure 325whp balpark) This is the only limitation (inj.)
Beyond ~xxpsi you may break the intake manifold.
The only ~commonly available inj. do not fit the mk4 12v intake manifold. 
2 solutions: 
Mk3 based short runner
stock Mk3 intake manifold
-Jeff
Edit: Different inj. = different software.




_Modified by Jefnes3 at 9:39 AM 10-3-2006_


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

And the Stage 1 MkIV software should support higher boost levels no problem. To optimize performance, you'd use VAG-COM to record knock sensor ignition timing retard on a full throttle run in 3rd gear and tune it so that you're approx 0.75 to 4 degrees retard with Lemmiwinks. 
The Bosch system should be able to optimize most of the time, but sometimes it needs a push in the right direction
Did I get that right, Jeff?



_Modified by phatvw at 11:41 AM 10-3-2006_


----------



## igotaprestent4u (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: (phatvw)*

im sure it can compensate for higher boost pressure with the injectors the software was written for. But what if you change to larger injectors, i dont think the software was written for that.


----------



## VRptstyly (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (igotaprestent4u)*

man i can't wait to get this kit when i get home. i was sooo undecided with the whole vrt thing, but this thread took care of that. just gotta start planning out a IC setup now. Any word on when a stage II kit would be available????


----------



## VRptstyly (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (VRptstyly)*

so it's agreed that i can run 12-15 p.s.i with headgasket, intercooler, the 36# injectors and the vrt software? just want to make sure cuz ima try to stay away from the whole short runner thing and 42lbs injectors. gonna try to keep things as simple as possible, but still get some nice boost out of the deal.


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (VRptstyly)*

Im in the same boat, Im just contemplating IC or meth injection to save the custom fabrication part of the IC setup.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (VRptstyly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRptstyly* »_so it's agreed that i can run 12-15 p.s.i with headgasket, intercooler, the 36# injectors and the vrt software? 

Yes.
Its not a matter of discussion, but fact.

-Jeff


----------



## igotaprestent4u (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

most likely its ok, i'd record injector duty cycle and a/f to play it safe.


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: Jeff atwood*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif listen to jefnes3 he knows his stuff, he wrote the software


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

to the trailblazer ss comment-
my brother has one with cai, chip, long tube headers and a full exhaust, and on the highway at psi, unintercooled and stock exhaust we're dead even. mk4, ofcourse


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Rippinralf)*

Hey guys, didn't notice these pic on Kinetic's site before:
http://www.kineticmotorsport.c...s.htm
I guess this is the new official way to do the throttle body bypass. No drilling? Rippinralf, if you're still following along, can you please comment on this pic? (click for full-res version)


To page #17 ---------------------> http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...ge=17



_Modified by phatvw at 5:11 PM 10-8-2006_


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (phatvw)*

No need for TB bypass...
Still working out the kinks, but its not an issue anymore.

-Jeff


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_No need for TB bypass...
Still working out the kinks, but its not an issue anymore.

-Jeff

Sweet! So are you the first vendor to hack *ahem* solve the MkIV Bosch idle throttle control issues when using non air-shrouded injectors?



_Modified by phatvw at 5:09 PM 10-8-2006_


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

Has anybody done an intercooler setup yet? Im getting ready to order up the pipes and an intercooler and just trying to figure out how I want to route it.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

I would hold off for just a little while if you want a kit from Kinetic. It will be kinda like this: http://www.kineticmotorsport.c....html


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Is this kit in developement, or just an idea right now?


----------



## VRptstyly (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

i've been wondering the same about the intercooler though. why should we hold off on the kinetic kit? was that code for, there being a stage II in the works????maybe with an intercooler???haha







let the people know!!


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (VRptstyly)*

if we already drilled the hole in the throttle body and want to boost more and decide on changing the injectors with 440cc injectors, will i have any dirveability issues with the hole?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_if we already drilled the hole in the throttle body and want to boost more and decide on changing the injectors with 440cc injectors, will i have any dirveability issues with the hole?

I suspect with the new control of the throttle plate, it won't matter if you have the hole or not. I think the problem that Jeff was trying to solve was finely tuning the throttle angle during idle to compensate for the non shrouded injectors. You can further tune idle with lemmiwinks by changing the idle torque and RPM values.

As for the Stage 2/intercooler kit, I have been in contact with Shawn at Kinetic - he invited me to be a beta tester







Have to work out the logistics and such so they can have my car for a few days. Once I know more and I get the go ahead from Shawn, I will of course post all the info here. Stay tuned











_Modified by phatvw at 5:15 PM 10-11-2006_


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_

As for the Stage 2/intercooler kit, I have been in contact with Shawn at Kinetic - he invited me to be a beta tester







Have to work out the logistics and such so they can have my car for a few days. Once I know more and I get the go ahead from Shawn, I will of course post all the info here. Stay tuned








_Modified by phatvw at 5:15 PM 10-11-2006_

you lucky bastard


----------



## VRptstyly (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*

sounds good let us know!!


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (VRptstyly)*

My car is currently sitting in Kinetic's shop awaiting Stage-2 development and testing, I'm also having a full 3" catback exhaust put in. Should be ready next week. Can't wait to drive this thing!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by phatvw at 8:30 PM 10-15-2006_


----------



## VRptstyly (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (phatvw)*

man thats sweet. any word on a approximate time?? for the stage II release? i know it's early, but a wild ass guess would do.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (VRptstyly)*

I figure before Christmas is realistic. My car will be the prototype and they will probably want to test fit on a few more cars and run a few dynos before release. I believe there were changes to the routing of coolant pipes and fuel lines between 1999.5 and 2002. My car is a later model (2001.5) so if you have an early car like a 1999.5 or 2000, I'm sure Shawn would appreciate testing on it.


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (phatvw)*

"3 weeks"


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rippinralf* »_"3 weeks"









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

does the stage 2 include a 3" DP







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_does the stage 2 include a 3" DP







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Nah maybe stage 3.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Just spoke with [email protected] My car is almost done! The intercooler piping prototype is done. They are building a 3" exhaust system now. Then its up on the dyno tomorrow.
Goal is 260-280 whp or 300+ HP at the crank!











_Modified by phatvw at 4:28 PM 10-19-2006_


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

what psi are you going to run? 260 whp seems almost too easy...


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_what psi are you going to run? 260 whp seems almost too easy... 

I think 8-10PSI. It will depend on the fuel. In BC they have 94 octane, but everywhere else is 91-92. I think the exhaust is going to make a huge difference, so maybe it will be more than 280 I dunno.



_Modified by phatvw at 4:33 PM 10-19-2006_


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

are you lowering compression?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_are you lowering compression?

Stock compression for now








With a headgasket spacer I'm sure we could push it waaaay further, but then we'd need a new fuel pump, bigger injectors, front mount oil cooler, etc. One step at a time...



_Modified by phatvw at 4:41 PM 10-19-2006_


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

nice. i have a fmic waiting to install and an 8.5 spacer on the way
edit: the spacer won't go in until i have money for the fuel pump, timing guide, and install set aside though.


_Modified by Soupuh at 7:44 PM 10-19-2006_


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

The spacer is a BIG job. Think 8hours install. You have to take the exhaust manifold and turbo off! so basically your doing the whole turbo install from scratch again.


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

yea, i'm getting arp head studs and rod bolts at the same time, so i should be all set to go after that!


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

i see clay ghost bumped this again. nice.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_i see clay ghost bumped this again. nice.









Maybe they are getting ready to post pics of my car. It should be going on the dyno shortly...


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Sick...I can't wait.


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

did they go with 2.5" piping all around.....inlet/outlet?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*

Space is at a premium in the engine bay so only 2" piping.
I started a new thread for the stage 2 kit:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2889617


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_i see clay ghost bumped this again. nice.

Ghost bumper, we had the FMIC installed on the weekend, looks good, makes good power, but the battery really sucks in the car








The braille was good as long as you didnt want to start the car


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rippinralf* »_
Ghost bumper, we had the FMIC installed on the weekend, looks good, makes good power, but the battery really sucks in the car








The braille was good as long as you didnt want to start the car









Yeah left the car for 1 week without starting it and it held no voltage! Took a good hour driving to charge it up.. Gonna have to get the battery tested and get it replaced under warranty... again


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Yeah left the car for 1 week without starting it and it held no voltage! Took a good hour driving to charge it up.. Gonna have to get the battery tested and get it replaced under warranty... again









At least you don't have any mice/rats under the hood


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rippinralf* »_
At least you don't have any mice/rats under the hood









Please get Shawn to upload the pics so I can post that in the car lounge


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (phatvw)*

The braille will tollerate going dead. No need to replace it. 
You just need to keep the car hooked up to a trickle charge if you don't
drive it ~daily.
-Jeff


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_The braille will tollerate going dead. No need to replace it. 
You just need to keep the car hooked up to a trickle charge if you don't
drive it ~daily.
-Jeff

ive had one in mine for a year now with no problems,,,, http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VacantSkies88 (Nov 16, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_so if you have an early car like a 1999.5 or 2000, I'm sure Shawn would appreciate testing on it.

I wish I lived on the west coast


----------



## midnightbluegli (Apr 5, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Just spoke with [email protected] My car is almost done! The intercooler piping prototype is done. They are building a 3" exhaust system now. Then its up on the dyno tomorrow.
Goal is 260-280 whp or 300+ HP at the crank!










no offense but thats pretty weak, at ten pounds your car should easily be making at least 300 to the wheels


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

...and it is


----------



## midnightbluegli (Apr 5, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_...and it is
my cousins vr @ ten pounds of boost made 336 whp and 303 trq with a video to prove it. not going to get into details but it should make alot more than 280 to the wheels


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (midnightbluegli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *midnightbluegli* »_my cousins vr @ ten pounds of boost made 336 whp and 303 trq with a video to prove it. not going to get into details but it should make alot more than 280 to the wheels

Your cousins??? And what is yours running buddy?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (midnightbluegli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *midnightbluegli* »_
no offense but thats pretty weak, at ten pounds your car should easily be making at least 300 to the wheels

Here ya go: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2889617


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (midnightbluegli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *midnightbluegli* »_my cousins vr @ ten pounds of boost made 336 whp and 303 trq with a video to prove it. not going to get into details but it should make alot more than 280 to the wheels

bahhahahaha
the magical florida dyno comes though again.
i have a video of an alien autopsy, i guess that makes it true too.











_Modified by TBT-Syncro at 8:33 PM 10-27-2006_


----------



## midnightbluegli (Apr 5, 2004)

*Re: (nubVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nubVR* »_Your cousins??? And what is yours running buddy? 
 mine? up till now is running a slightly worked head with a 125 wet shot of nitrous. with full custom mandrel bent 2.5 exhaust no cat to an r32 muffler. i have decided to go turbo starting December and finishing when ever i want and when ever time/money permits . build thread will be up later who ever doubts me pm me and i am willing to talk about it more








as far as the dyno goes and your thoughts of a "Florida dyno" this was made on fyne tune's dyno one of the most reputable shops of south Florida which carries a real dyno not a "fisher price dyno" A.K.A Dyn-o-mite








*here is a dyno vid for those who care @10lbs on a pieced together setup* 
http://vids.myspace.com/index....80075


----------



## midnightbluegli (Apr 5, 2004)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_bahhahahaha
the magical florida dyno comes though again.
i have a video of an alien autopsy, i guess that makes it true too.










 and im sure you have seasonal passes to roswell on ice there is word thats there is going to be a rather slim dennis rodman looking one performing this year.








back on topic the point i am trying to make is that for what you are paying your should be making well over or rite at 300 to the wheels @10psi


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (VacantSkies88)*

for what he is paying he IS right at 300 to the wheels at 10 psi... pn stock compression, no less.


----------



## midnightbluegli (Apr 5, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

if that was towards me that dyno vid was @ stock compression also the car is now lowered compression with arp head bolts and rod bolts,and hes running a t-70 cold side with a t3/t4 hot side for quicker spool and holding 20-22pounds of boost safely,and not to mention the short runner intake manifold


----------



## 6pack (Apr 18, 2006)

midnightbluegli
That pic you posted shows the nitrous bottle sitting sideways. You might want to face it foward due to it shifting under acceleration. Just a thought.


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (midnightbluegli)*

I think if most of us had the time, and shop space/tools to piece together a kit and make it right, we could make 300hp for cheaper also.... Wich is why companies make kits, for the people that dont have the time, or equipment, or knowledge to do it themselves...i would much rather build my exhaust, and intercooler piping myself...but i dont have the time or a mandrel bender, or welder that i need to do it.....so end the end what were payin for is a nice quality set up, that is already built for us....sometimes you have to give a little to get a little. In this case we cant give the time so we have to give the money.. just my opinion though http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Would also like to see your build thread when your done...


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (nubVR)*

bye the way ,,just thought id say nitrous is lame and vr's dont like it. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## midnightbluegli (Apr 5, 2004)

*Re: (6pack)*

that particular tank has a multi-position pick up tube , also it is out of the car since last night sold it in order to buy materials for the turbo build up which wont be starting for quite a bit


----------



## midnightbluegli (Apr 5, 2004)

*Re: (dtm337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dtm337* »_bye the way ,,just thought id say nitrous is lame and vr's dont like it. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
 sorry to break it to you but VR6 engines love nitrous when installed properly. 75-100 wet is nothing for a stock vr6 first thing to give would be your clutch


----------



## midnightbluegli (Apr 5, 2004)

*Re: (nubVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nubVR* »_I think if most of us had the time, and shop space/tools to piece together a kit and make it right, we could make 300hp for cheaper also.... Wich is why companies make kits, for the people that dont have the time, or equipment, or knowledge to do it themselves...i would much rather build my exhaust, and intercooler piping myself...but i dont have the time or a mandrel bender, or welder that i need to do it.....so end the end what were payin for is a nice quality set up, that is already built for us....sometimes you have to give a little to get a little. In this case we cant give the time so we have to give the money.. just my opinion though http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Would also like to see your build thread when your done...
 
yeah as soon as i have the time/money i will start a build thread thing is that i have to many projects going on at the same time so ill work on getting one up later







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_No need for TB bypass...
Still working out the kinks, but its not an issue anymore.

-Jeff

I have been beta testing Jeff's new chip with the updated idle control and a non-drilled throttle-body for 1 week. It works great! No tweaks in lemmiwinks required. Idle sits at 650-700RPM. All you have to do is use VAG-COM to do a throttle body alignment and you're good to go. Its a good idea to clean your throttle body and get rid of any oil residue too. My old TB had a lot of muck in there. I'm thinking of building a catch can for the PCV.


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
I have been beta testing Jeff's new chip with the updated idle control and a non-drilled throttle-body for 1 week. It works great! No tweaks in lemmiwinks required. Idle sits at 650-700RPM. All you have to do is use VAG-COM to do a throttle body alignment and you're good to go. Its a good idea to clean your throttle body and get rid of any oil residue too. My old TB had a lot of muck in there. I'm thinking of building a catch can for the PCV.

i was thinking the same thing my tb seems to get dirty quick..
im working on building a specific vr kit ,,,


----------



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (dtm337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dtm337* »_
i was thinking the same thing my tb seems to get dirty quick..
im working on building a specific vr kit ,,,

sign me up.
also-
dan, does this chip change anything besides the cold start issues and the drilled tb?


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_
sign me up.
also-
dan, does this chip change anything besides the cold start issues and the drilled tb? 

yes it f-in rules spool is increased and idle is rock solid and i saw much tighter a/f as well!!!


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (dtm337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dtm337* »_
yes it f-in rules spool is increased and idle is rock solid and i saw much tighter a/f as well!!!

Yep, Jeff is always making little tweaks to the code to ensure the best driving experience. Would be cool if he did this stuff full time http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Kinetic VR6 Turbo anyone.... (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_. Would be cool if he did this stuff full time http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


Just, show me the money....















(I'm working on it)
-Jeff


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

Yea... The software Jeff gave me is pretty new too. 
Its actually quite remarkable. I drive my car ~70 miles daily- Rock steady everything. Stalling - nope. Idle- solid all the time. 
No complaints from me. I think a lot of times, a flaw in the actual turbo build are the source of problems people may see, not the software.


----------



## VRptstyly (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (herbehop)*

so is this new and improved software, gonna start coming with the kit?


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (VRptstyly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRptstyly* »_so is this new and improved software, gonna start coming with the kit?

I don't see why not. I spoke with [email protected] the other day and relayed my comments about the updated software http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_Yea... The software Jeff gave me is pretty new too. 


Your car has custom software http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Jeff


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

so there's an updated software for a stage 2 kit? what if we did a stage 2 custom upgrade ourselves, can we send our ECU back for the updated software?


----------



## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*

ttt http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2k1 vr6* »_so there's an updated software for a stage 2 kit? what if we did a stage 2 custom upgrade ourselves, can we send our ECU back for the updated software?

I'm sure if you pay for a flash and work around the schedule of the person doing the flash, you can get this done. Remember these guys work part time on this stuff so you gotta be flexible http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (phatvw)*


----------



## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*

Humor someone who is anal about the appearance of his engine bay...
Can the stock plastic engine covers be used after this kit is installed or is removal a necessity for fitment? No, this is not a make-or-break issue but one I'd like to know about beforehand.


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (vr6pilot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6pilot* »_Humor someone who is anal about the appearance of his engine bay...
Can the stock plastic engine covers be used after this kit is installed or is removal a necessity for fitment? No, this is not a make-or-break issue but one I'd like to know about beforehand.

I don't think there is anything preventing you from using the oem engine cover. I lost mine so thats why its not pictured. Also, getting rid of it gains 5HP


----------



## VR6_00Jetta (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Also, getting rid of it gains 5HP









Where does that 5hp come from?


----------



## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

*Re: (VR6_00Jetta)*


_Quote »_
I don't think there is anything preventing you from using the oem engine cover.

Das ist gut.


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
I don't think there is anything preventing you from using the oem engine cover. I lost mine so thats why its not pictured. Also, getting rid of it gains 5HP










Yours only gained 5??? I got 7 at the wheels man, but decided to put it back on for appearance, until i do my shortrunner http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif And to answer your question, yes the cover still fits


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (VR6_00Jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6_00Jetta* »_
Where does that 5hp come from?

Weight reduction!
Actually, I was joking, hence the wink icon


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (midnightbluegli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *midnightbluegli* »_ mine? up till now is running a slightly worked head with a 125 wet shot of nitrous

You spray fuel through the plastic mani? Yikes, I'd be scared. I ran a 100shot dry on my 24v for a while.


----------



## dmiller9254 (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Weight reduction!
Actually, I was joking, hence the wink icon
















PSSSSHHHHT! GOD, you should've done pin stripes instead. EVERYONE know that those will knock atleast a second of your 1320 ET as long as "you're double clutchin like you should".


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Well I blew out my Tial wastegate gasket. [email protected] is overnighting me some new upgraded parts so I should be up and running again real soon. All the production kits will get an upgraded gasket by default now.
Man, sometimes I hate being the guinea pig...









_Modified by phatvw at 10:19 AM 2-28-2006_


hey phat....how was this acting when you blew it out???? I have a problem right now, im boosting to 6psi, and it holds steady, but right when i gain any pressure, all i hear is air coming out....i pressurized everything and cant find any leaks.... im gonna take it apart this weekend and see what i can find, but im leaning torward something wrong with my wastegate...or gasket hopefully!


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (nubVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nubVR* »_

hey phat....how was this acting when you blew it out???? I have a problem right now, im boosting to 6psi, and it holds steady, but right when i gain any pressure, all i hear is air coming out....i pressurized everything and cant find any leaks.... im gonna take it apart this weekend and see what i can find, but im leaning torward something wrong with my wastegate...or gasket hopefully!

That sound may just be the normal whoosh of the turbo. When my gasket blew, there was a film of black exhaust soot all round the transmission and coolant hoses and the wiring loom for the speed sensor on the tranny melted...


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

no its not the normal whoosh, thats what i thought at first with the cold air we have now....but i have no power either... like i said im gonna tear it apart tomorrow, maybe take some pics for future refference too http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## IIVR6II (Feb 2, 2005)

hey....where is everyone ....and how about some videos???????


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (nubVR)*

I hate having fat hands!! I found my problem, the bolt on my through the DP, up to the waste gate fell out....So after taking all the piping, and my TB off, i got in there and got it apart...gasket looks like it is pretty burnt up...im gonna put a new one in, and get it back together sometime this week!


----------



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (nubVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nubVR* »_I hate having fat hands!! I found my problem, the bolt on my through the DP, up to the waste gate fell out....So after taking all the piping, and my TB off, i got in there and got it apart...gasket looks like it is pretty burnt up...im gonna put a new one in, and get it back together sometime this week! 

Did Shawn include a solid fire ring gasket or does it look like a cheese grater? In any case, get the good fire ring gasket now and torque the crap out of those two bolts!


----------



## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

Cheese grater! 








new gasket, just ordered http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

IMs replied


----------



## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*

after blowing out 2 gaskets last year 1 paper and 1 fire ringed 
i got a peice of 1/8 inch copper and cut my own out works great...


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (dtm337)*

stage 2 MKIV VR6 ready to go in about 2 weeks (14 days)


----------



## IBD12NV (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*

sign me up Rippinfalf http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
cost?
order to ship time?
email me
[email protected]


----------



## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

*Re: (IBD12NV)*

Any further consideration on the SMIC idea? Here in the South, we need good flow to the front for the AC and the radiator. Stacking another heat exchanger in front of those two kinda sucks when there is ample room off to the sides.
AND what of a CAI to attach? I may have to go custom as I've relocated my battery to the back but was wondering what Kinetic had in mind.


----------



## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

*Re: (vr6pilot)*

General question about attaching the vacum hose for the variable intake when installing Kinetic's Stg1 on a Mk4 Vr6.
In the pics on Kinetic's website, I notice that some people have the actual intake pipe (U-shaped deal from compressor to throttle body) running to the throttle body tapped and the vacuum connected there. Then within that same PDF of pics on their site a little further down (pg 24) it appears that the vacuum line is run from the air intake just after the MAF.
What is the correct location for this vacuum to be run and how critical is its placement?
Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Figured these images would help clarify.




















_Modified by V-dubbulyuh at 6:07 PM 3-18-2007_


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (V-dubbulyuh)*

Stage 1, 2 and 3 ready to go







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*

I heard you guys were shipping Garret's with the kit now rather than Rotomaster.
Confirm/Deny?


----------



## Devin @ Kinetic (Apr 16, 2007)

*Re: (vr6pilot)*

they come with either or.
it depends what we have in stock at the moment when ordered


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (Devin @ Kinetic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Devin @ Kinetic* »_they come with either or.
it depends what we have in stock at the moment when ordered


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*

Just installed a snow performance stage 2 meth injection kit to get the most out of my stage 1 non-intercooled and all I can say is WOW. Still need to fine tune it but this thing pulls so hard on 6.5 lbs...cant wait to take it up to 9-10 lbs and see what shes really made of. Def one of my best upgrades besides the turbo.


----------



## Devin @ Kinetic (Apr 16, 2007)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

yeah we got a guy here with stage 1 and meth injection and he runs 296whp all day long.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 01VRSIXER (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (Devin @ Kinetic)*

what kind of boost is he running? I havent pushed it much past 8-8.5 psi yet because I havent gotten a chance to get my vag-com hooked up. Also what is the max psi for the stage 1 kit in terms of boost and horsepower with the meth?


----------



## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

*Re: (01VRSIXER)*

tranny goes to Atlanta tomorrow for the LSD install








Moving closer all the time.
Haven't driven car since April.
Been on motorcycle exclusively.
Yet to get caught in the rain.


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## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

*Re: (vr6pilot)*

Everything's back together. Real class act over there at Palmer's and couple of very VW smart guys. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Car's all back together in N/A mode getting it's sinuses cleared out with a few tanks full of STP fuel system cleaner. Hoping to get the compression numbers back down somewhat after years of not using decent gas.
Clutch feels great. For those considering the Sachs Power clutch...it feels just like a brand new stock clutch. Pedal effort was reduced slightly as one would expect after changing out from a 100,000 mile clutch.
Poly dogbone inserts (just the aft ones) allow you to feel a lttle bit more coming from the engine thru the foot but barely noticeable. You have to be 'thinking' about it but the reduced rocking of the motor/tranny assembly is great. Shifting much easier, car feels less sloppy. I'll probably replace the forward bushing too but with a OEM rubber one as I've heard going all poly makes the car feel harsh. Dunno.
Just trying to get a hold of kinetic, not answering phones. Woulda ordered the boost last Friday. Guys...theres an email sitting in your inbox!


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## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

*Re: (vr6pilot)*

Plunge taken. Must have beer.


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## Devin @ Kinetic (Apr 16, 2007)

*Re: (vr6pilot)*

call me! 1-800-714-9962
i dont think i have an email from you.


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## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

*Re: (Devin @ Kinetic)*

Got the call in, got the order placed. Will y'all shoot out an email when the goodies ship out? (dan st.peters)


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## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

*Re: (vr6pilot)*

Got a big box of some real purdy go-fast parts today.








The instructions consist of some jpegs on a disc








but I did stay in a holiday inn express last night and NOPI was on the TV...the sound was off but, I got the jist of it.


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## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

*Re: (vr6pilot)*

Is the heat shield over the exhaust manifold retained? Anyone got a pic of that as the holes in mine don't line up with the fittings on the mani so I don't know if I need to drill, or bend the forward edge back?


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (vr6pilot)*

Yeah just make one of the holes bigger or bend it a bit. Get some big steel washers from home depot to distribute the load of the nuts so that it doesn't rattle around. I think there are a couple washers below and above the heat shield on each stud on my car.


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## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

*Re: (phatvw)*

thanks, man. changing out the injectors this evening. so far, I've been a one man show but haven't run into any big snags.
I only got stage one. how are my chances against the wife's G35S?


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## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

*Re: (vr6pilot)*

doesn't seem right to me.... anyone??? Bueller??


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## FNVR6T aka 2k1 vr6 (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (vr6pilot)*

you might not be able to get those retaing clips on those injectors to the fuel rail. i wasn't able to and have been running them like that for about 2k miles now. weekend warrior


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