# Stumped, Daily Driver, Single SideDraft, Dual SideDraft or Single DownDraft?



## Blade3562 (Aug 17, 2012)

I'm at a crossroads with my DD. The CIS system is starting to get finnicky, and I really don't feel like troubleshooting/messing with it. I had great luck with a Weber 32/36 on one of my previous cars, but I prefer DCOEs. My project car is getting dual sidedrafts, but this setup doesn't look like it would be very DD friendly. What setup would you guys recommend. Engine will be getting a 268 cam, hydraulic head, aluminum cam and idler gears, 4-2-1 header, and 1.75" exhaust. I don't mind tuning them, but the car will be/is driven year round in NEOH.

SPA offers a single sidedraft manifold, but no linkages etc. Seems like this kit would be the most work to install, but might be the best option. Could this use the oem mechanical fuel pump? Or the CIS pump through a regulator?









Redline offers the same 32/36 kit my last carb'd car had. It started at -10F and 96F outside. Had to modify the rain tray to make it work. Used the oem mechanical fuel pump









This is the redline kit I bought for my other car. Can't wait to install it! Dual 40 DCOEs









Bay has changed a little bit since this pic, but relatively the same.


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

You could definitely DD the dual 40's. Before I built my 16v to the moon I daily drove the car from March to November (not all the way through the winter) and even though on occasion I would see temps as low as 10* it would still start if I had the chokes engaged which on an 8v is much easier to make work than on a 16v. My friend also daily drove his sport truck every day on dual Mikuni PHH 44's and had no issues with his 8v.

I'd probably go dual 40 DCOE's for fun and the cool factor and attempt to run the stock mechanical pump over the CIS pump with a regulator because it's my opinion you will get the right PSI, but not the right volume of fuel per hour. 

Otherwise the 32/36 as you know is tried and true and will pretty much always work in any condition.


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## Blade3562 (Aug 17, 2012)

dougkehl said:


> You could definitely DD the dual 40's. Before I built my 16v to the moon I daily drove the car from March to November (not all the way through the winter) and even though on occasion I would see temps as low as 10* it would still start if I had the chokes engaged which on an 8v is much easier to make work than on a 16v. My friend also daily drove his sport truck every day on dual Mikuni PHH 44's and had no issues with his 8v.
> 
> I'd probably go dual 40 DCOE's for fun and the cool factor and attempt to run the stock mechanical pump over the CIS pump with a regulator because it's my opinion you will get the right PSI, but not the right volume of fuel per hour.
> 
> Otherwise the 32/36 as you know is tried and true and will pretty much always work in any condition.


From what I've been told about the dual 40s is a mechanical pump(the ones that bolt to the block) won't provide an even flow that the dual 40s need. I'd really like to know where I can learn a bit more about the pros and cons of different pumps. For one thing I'd like to keep the hoses and such nice/neat so an OEM location pump is probably the best option.

I'm pretty set on the Dual 40s and since I'll only have 110ish hp it should run pretty well. Days like today where it's Single digits will be a challenge I'm sure. Are there any sort of autochoke setups? If not I'm sure a stealthy install could be done using the plug on the dash(like the diesels, since it's a cabby it has the plastic cover). Trying to evaluate every option before I bite! But the CIS system on this car is not long for this world lol. (Starting to get to be very hard to start cold)

One last question, wire removal/cleanup. What all goes/stays. from what I recall I just had connectors to the coil, fan switch, fan and oil/temp senders remaining!


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

Blade3562 said:


> From what I've been told about the dual 40s is a mechanical pump(the ones that bolt to the block) won't provide an even flow that the dual 40s need. I'd really like to know where I can learn a bit more about the pros and cons of different pumps. For one thing I'd like to keep the hoses and such nice/neat so an OEM location pump is probably the best option.
> 
> I'm pretty set on the Dual 40s and since I'll only have 110ish hp it should run pretty well. Days like today where it's Single digits will be a challenge I'm sure. Are there any sort of autochoke setups? If not I'm sure a stealthy install could be done using the plug on the dash(like the diesels, since it's a cabby it has the plastic cover). Trying to evaluate every option before I bite! But the CIS system on this car is not long for this world lol. (Starting to get to be very hard to start cold)
> 
> One last question, wire removal/cleanup. What all goes/stays. from what I recall I just had connectors to the coil, fan switch, fan and oil/temp senders remaining!


Didn't think about the pulse factor of the mechanical pump! With that being said, I've found my Carter P4070 pump to be excellent. It provides steady flow, more than enough gallons per hour and only puts out 6 psi, so a regulator is still needed, but it works great and can be mounted in the stock location. I mounted mine in the engine bay and kept my in tank sender pump. 

I don't know of any autochoke setups, but I also have the carbs in a Cabby so when I ran the chokes I ran the cable to that spot on the dash. Looked completely factory. But because my carbs were facing the opposite way from an 8v I had to build a linkage set up to get it to work properly which didn't look factory lol. I wanted to build an electronic choke that would use a small linear servo that would shut off via a coolant temp sensor or something. But on the 8v it should be a breeze and look completely normal. 

And you're spot on with the wires that need to stay. Otherwise everything else goes away!


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## The Dubbernaut (Feb 1, 2010)

Perfect timing for a search! I am waiting for a fat 1,800$ tax return to get the last bits for my setup! Im dumping the CIS system in my Caddy for a carb'd setup too. The parts that are in it are nearly dead, and its too much trouble to source new or decent parts to nurse it back to health. I have built a few motorcycles and work on all my friends carbs so going to a carb setup on my little counterflow 1.6l is perfect. 

My question is, are the dual carbs you have pictured, downdraft or side draft? Im on http://www.carburetion.com and, in complete novice fashion, Im slightly confused on what ones are which. I dont want the side draft pair due to it being so damn close to the firewall. Correct me if Im wrong, but did they only make sidedrafts for the crossflow head? And downdraft for the counterflow? 

As for fuel pump, I just got that Carter 4070 as well. From what I read on here, thats all you need with no regulator. Unless I am confused on that too :screwy: They cant make it gravity fed like a bike? :banghead: lol


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

The Dubbernaut said:


> Perfect timing for a search! I am waiting for a fat 1,800$ tax return to get the last bits for my setup! Im dumping the CIS system in my Caddy for a carb'd setup too. The parts that are in it are nearly dead, and its too much trouble to source new or decent parts to nurse it back to health. I have built a few motorcycles and work on all my friends carbs so going to a carb setup on my little counterflow 1.6l is perfect.
> 
> My question is, are the dual carbs you have pictured, downdraft or side draft? Im on http://www.carburetion.com and, in complete novice fashion, Im slightly confused on what ones are which. I dont want the side draft pair due to it being so damn close to the firewall. Correct me if Im wrong, but did they only make sidedrafts for the crossflow head? And downdraft for the counterflow?
> 
> As for fuel pump, I just got that Carter 4070 as well. From what I read on here, thats all you need with no regulator. Unless I am confused on that too :screwy: They cant make it gravity fed like a bike? :banghead: lol


The carbs pictured above are side draft. They are Weber DCOE's. Weber IDA and IDF carbs are down drafts, but the IDF carbs are a bigger body carb so you wouldn't want those. 

People have actually been using 40-45 DCOE side drafts on counterflow 8v's for the last 40 years.. It's a tried and true set up, but there are companies that make manifolds for dual IDA down drafts for the counterflow 8v. SPA turbo makes one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Rabbit-MK1-MK2-dual-IDF-weber-downdraft-manifold-8v-counterflow-TIN2001-/172141738626

As for the Carter 4070 pump, it really depends on what carbs you run.. A set of IDA down draft carbs may want a different amount of pressure than the DCOE side draft carbs, which like 3 psi and that Carter pump pushes 4-6 psi. So having a regulator is a good idea just in case. I've ran a 4070 pump with no regulator and didn't notice any real ill effects, but I run a regulator just so I can dial in the pressure exactly.


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