# Did my tuner install the wrong APR file? (Stage 2+ for a stock fuel pump?)



## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

Hi Folks -
I recently installed a downpipe, and got the APR software bumped from Stage 1 to Stage 2. The tuner mentioned installing Stage 2+, and I was under the impression that required an upgraded fuel pump. Tuner said, "they're all called Stage 2+ now...basically a file with the pump, and without".  Is this correct? Even APR's site labels things "Stage 2" and "Stage 2+ FSI Fuel Pump".

The car goes into limp mode (zero gas pedal response) virtually every time I drive.

The code that keeps appearing is:
000135 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure: Too Low 
P0087 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent - MIL ON

Car is on 07 with 22k miles on it, only gets top tier gas, and gets an oil change every ~3k with Mobil1 0W40. Mods are intake, downpipe, VTA can, and APR. All relevant warranty work is up to date, replaced coil packs, fuel pressure sensor, thrust sensor, intake flaps, etc.

I'm hoping it's just the wrong file, and dont want to start throwing random parts at it. Have a cam follower on standby, but was trying to hold out till 25k to mess with it.

Thanks in advance for help :thumbup:

PS - I emailed APR with the VIN and relevant info, but figured I could get a quick answer from the experts here.


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## Kong99 (Jul 3, 2008)

Your error codes clearly indicate it is the fuel pump.

APR Stg 2+ requires an upgraded fuel pump, and down pipe. I would also highly recc an intake as well. I see you have an intake. Frankly, keep the file and get an upgraded fuel pump. You'll be glad you did.

I see no reason why you'd need a Cam Follower at your mileage but no harm in checking, it's easy to check and eventually you will need to change it.


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## Vinnyty (Mar 19, 2008)

Get your pump upgraded through hpfpupgrade.com. The price is awesome and the pump is amazing. You can go with the apr pump but its big bucks and prob no better than the hpfpupgrade pump. From my experience do not waste your money on a kmd, autotech, or any other "kit" it just causes fuel to leak past the seal and get into the oil which renders your pump useless and dilutes the oil and causes premature wear on the follower and cam. :banghead:


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

I should have mentioned that I don't want to upgrade my fuel pump right now due to the accelerated cam wear, extended warranty implications, and cost. Might feel differently down the road, but for now, it's a skip.

Was hoping someone could verify APR's file naming convention.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

The "tuner":screwy: must be confused with the TSI files. So you can either have someone at APR contact them so the correct file will be loaded hopefully at no cost to you, or put out another $550 to $600 to have your pump rebuilt by APR. But of course this means you'll be down for 4 to 5 days max. Plus shipping costs.


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## TCFGLI08 (Apr 6, 2011)

:thumbup:


Vinnyty said:


> Get your pump upgraded through hpfpupgrade.com. The price is awesome and the pump is amazing. You can go with the apr pump but its big bucks and prob no better than the hpfpupgrade pump. From my experience do not waste your money on a kmd, autotech, or any other "kit" it just causes fuel to leak past the kproblems,so don't knock them


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## TCFGLI08 (Apr 6, 2011)

TCFGLI08 said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> 
> Vinnyty said:
> ...


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

TCFGLI08 said:


> TCFGLI08 said:
> 
> 
> > :thumbup:
> ...


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## TCFGLI08 (Apr 6, 2011)

Bill6211789 said:


> TCFGLI08 said:
> 
> 
> > TCFGLI08 said:
> ...


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

TCFGLI08 said:


> Oh I would get an APR _IF_ they didn't cost an arm and a leg


You paying attention to what he actually posted? :screwy: He said to get a new HPFP from www.hpfpupgrade.com They are comparable to the APR pumps for a lot less, and they have multiple options for guys running bigger turbo setups.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

TBomb said:


> You paying attention to what he actually posted? :screwy: He said to get a new HPFP from www.hpfpupgrade.com They are comparable to the APR pumps for a lot less, and they have multiple options for guys running bigger turbo setups.


It's sad because this is the same guy who would buy a bunch of internals from the same place autotech sourced theirs and then install it into a pump and mark up the price and offer a "warranty". 

He then went on to start a different company called "carpe diem" selling HPFPs and is now doing it under the name of HPFPupgrade.com.

Don't be fooled, it's the same thing as Autotech and KMD. The same design flaws that cause those pumps to leak and fail apply to hpfpupgrade's offering as well.

Dave


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

crew219 said:


> It's sad because this is the same guy who would buy a bunch of internals from the same place autotech sourced theirs and then install it into a pump and mark up the price and offer a "warranty".
> 
> He then went on to start a different company called "carpe diem" selling HPFPs and is now doing it under the name of HPFPupgrade.com.
> 
> ...


opcorn:


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> opcorn:


For some more lols.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4289454-Carpe-Diem-Indus.-FUEL-PUMP-UPGRADE!



syntrix said:


> Isn't this the same kid that was buying kmd/autotech and selling them as his own to MS owners? And if it is the same one, he blew up his MS3 engine.


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## TCFGLI08 (Apr 6, 2011)

TBomb said:


> You paying attention to what he actually posted? :screwy: He said to get a new HPFP from www.hpfpupgrade.com They are comparable to the APR pumps for a lot less, and they have multiple options for guys running bigger turbo setups.


Installing a PTE6262 this weekend ,if everything goes right,fat chance of that.
Just want a HPFP that is reliable, Also upgraded the inline to a Waldo 255 we will see how that holdsup
Was even considering the roller camshaft kit.But again MONEY
TERRENCE
But it is fun to plan and do your own work and thanks for keeping it civilizedeace:


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

I've been watching hpfpupgrade's posts from day one, with a mix of horror/amusement. :facepalm: You couldn't pay me to put one on my car. Well, I take that back...if they threw down enough cash to cover a new Golf TDI, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

So, if this turns out to be the correct file, is there something I can log to narrow down the problem? Seems like the two most common sensors linked to the low pressure code (thrust & fuel) have already been replaced under warranty. Fuel filter at 22k doesnt seem likely. Low pressure pump is not a repair I want to tackle for the fun of it.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

How exactly is $495 to $595 from hpfp upgrade that much cheaper when they only build and upgrade brand new pumps. So I would have to buy a new pump at $2??.00 and send it to them and pay another $550 avg.? Is this right? I'm not attempting to start a brand war, I'm just trying to understand what I saw on the hpfp upgrade site.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

KenTX said:


> Hi Folks -
> I recently installed a downpipe, and got the APR software bumped from Stage 1 to Stage 2. The tuner mentioned installing Stage 2+, and I was under the impression that required an upgraded fuel pump. Tuner said, "they're all called Stage 2+ now...basically a file with the pump, and without".  Is this correct? Even APR's site labels things "Stage 2" and "Stage 2+ FSI Fuel Pump".
> 
> The car goes into limp mode (zero gas pedal response) virtually every time I drive.
> ...


Change your follower, pop in a new fuel filter and verify the current file installed with APR and go from there. I had the stage 2+ w/o pump since day 1 when i got flashed and never had any CEL's. I now have the Stage 2+ pump file and still zero issues, hopefully this helps.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

ROH ECHT said:


> How exactly is $495 to $595 from hpfp upgrade that much cheaper when they only build and upgrade brand new pumps. So I would have to buy a new pump at $2??.00 and send it to them and pay another $550 avg.? Is this right? I'm not attempting to start a brand war, I'm just trying to understand what I saw on the hpfp upgrade site.


You dont have to buy a new pump.

The priced are 

395$ for his rebuild kit (which i have) they have a seal machined into the pump So the fuel leaking into Oil problem is being fixed

For him to Rebuild ur pump is 475$ (he says new but means low miles even Says tht for the rebuild kit) 

And for a brand new pump Its 575$

Ive had my diy pump (my pump had 80k on it) for about 2 weeks diy was very easy to do ive put about 1500 miles on it and its been flawless so far. This weekend ill be disassembling everything to see how the pump/follower look

Sent from my EVO


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

Bill6211789 said:


> You dont have to buy a new pump.
> 
> The priced are
> 
> ...


I emailed hpfp upgrade last night. Still no response. But if those are the prices, it is tempting should they hold up through time. I 1st had Autotechs. It got damaged when my cf wore through 5800 miles after the install. So since autotech was over a month away from getting me a pump rebuild, and AWE stopped making theirs, I went with APR. And I trust it. I feel like I could've trusted the autotech, and regret not changing the follower at the time it was installed. The cf looked fine so I thought to just check it in 10k miles, but it never made it.


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## broccliman (Jun 21, 2009)

OP - 

I figured I'd post this because it has confused me in the past, and my tuner and I went in a circle for a couple of minutes because of the APR file naming.

The actual file name for Apr stage 2 is Stage 2+. The file name for Apr stage 2+ is Stage 2+ w/ HPFP. I don't know if APR has consolidated this to a single file like you mentioned.

After my flash, the receipt said "Stage2+" and I told my tuner he put the wrong file on. He said he didn't, I said I don't have an upgraded HPFP, he said he knows that, I said he put the "+" version on, he said that's the right one, etc. :facepalm:


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

Thanks! This (and a few other comments) seem to sync up with what the tuner was saying. I'm just a bit shocked/disappointed since the car cant be driven safely. Hopefully APR will confirm, but I'm not sure where to go after that point. Time to do more searching, I suppose.

Thanks again for the responses folks! :beer:


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

KenTX said:


> I've been watching hpfpupgrade's posts from day one, with a mix of horror/amusement. :facepalm: You couldn't pay me to put one on my car. Well, I take that back...if they threw down enough cash to cover a new Golf TDI, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
> 
> So, if this turns out to be the correct file, is there something I can log to narrow down the problem? Seems like the two most common sensors linked to the low pressure code (thrust & fuel) have already been replaced under warranty. Fuel filter at 22k doesnt seem likely. Low pressure pump is not a repair I want to tackle for the fun of it.


I would log requested fuel pressure vs actual. The requested should be a tell tale sign as to which file you have.

Also, the in-tank pump replacement isn't too bad really. A little nerve wracking when you are looking down into the gas tank inside your car and imagining all the horrible ways things could go south in a hurry :laugh: Even with the distance to empty on 0 there is still a surprising amount of fuel left in the tank. Really though, I think it took me less than an hour to change mine out when my thrust sensor went bad and burned up my pump.


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

broccliman said:


> OP -
> 
> I figured I'd post this because it has confused me in the past, and my tuner and I went in a circle for a couple of minutes because of the APR file naming.
> 
> ...


That seems like a really dumb move on APR's part. Maybe Arin can chime in with an explanation, but it seems like it would only serve to confuse people. :screwy:


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

TBomb said:


> That seems like a really dumb move on APR's part. Maybe Arin can chime in with an explanation, but it seems like it would only serve to confuse people. :screwy:


Stage II originally used 110 bar fuel rail pressure.
Stage II+ included a 130 bar fuel rail pressure strategy on the stock pump.
Stage II+ w/ HPFP also uses 130 bar fuel rail pressure but since the HPFP can produce more pressure at lower RPMs, boost is increased in the midrange. 

Dave


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

ROH ECHT said:


> I emailed hpfp upgrade last night. Still no response. But if those are the prices, it is tempting should they hold up through time. I 1st had Autotechs. It got damaged when my cf wore through 5800 miles after the install. So since autotech was over a month away from getting me a pump rebuild, and AWE stopped making theirs, I went with APR. And I trust it. I feel like I could've trusted the autotech, and regret not changing the follower at the time it was installed. The cf looked fine so I thought to just check it in 10k miles, but it never made it.


You should have heard back from them by now i know they were closed for the long weekend, if you havn't heard back try sending over a PM from golfmkv


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

crew219 said:


> Stage II originally used 110 bar fuel rail pressure.
> Stage II+ included a 130 bar fuel rail pressure strategy on the stock pump.
> Stage II+ w/ HPFP also uses 130 bar fuel rail pressure but since the HPFP can produce more pressure at lower RPMs, boost is increased in the midrange.
> 
> Dave


Interesting. So now the "Stage 2" flash you get is actually the 130 bar "Stage II+" flash, and the 110 bar flash is no longer used?


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

Well, APR responded and said it could be several things - most prevalent being the cam follower. I just have a hard time believing it could be toast at 22k miles with 3k synthetic oil change intervals. Still need verification the correct file is on my car, but I suspect it's right. I have a follower, and will tackle that as soon as time allows. (Dragging my feet on this because I have disabling back issues)

I did some logging yesterday (per the rosstech wiki) and the good news is the low pressure pump and fuel pressure regulator are well within factory spec. What's severely out of whack is the delta between specified and actual rail pressure (group 230, field 3). Spec is maximum 5 bar, but I recorded values up to 47 bar!  (car requesting 130, actual was 83)


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## BlueJetta2.0T (Jun 30, 2009)

crew219 said:


> Stage II originally used 110 bar fuel rail pressure.
> Stage II+ included a 130 bar fuel rail pressure strategy on the stock pump.
> Stage II+ w/ HPFP also uses 130 bar fuel rail pressure but since the HPFP can produce more pressure at lower RPMs, boost is increased in the midrange.
> 
> Dave


Make sense. I was surprised to see 130 bar requested fuel pressure when logging. The stock pump delivered 126-131 bar when 130 bar was requested.


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## BlueJetta2.0T (Jun 30, 2009)

KenTX said:


> (car requesting 130, actual was 83)


You should definitively check you cam follower ASAP


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

Changed the cam follower today, and found what I expected for 22k miles. Coating worn off, but basically feels smooth. No chance this is causing fuel cuts... 

Holding out to see if APR can help troubleshoot, but suspect I will be forced to go back to stage 1.


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## BlueJetta2.0T (Jun 30, 2009)

then probably the fuel pump is the problem. Stock pump can deliver 130 bar.


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## tarikata_cs (Mar 29, 2009)

KenTX said:


> Changed the cam follower today, and found what I expected for 22k miles. Coating worn off, but basically feels smooth. No chance this is causing fuel cuts...
> 
> wow loоks very bad?! Why don't use original oil VW Audi Special Plus? I use it 8.000 miles change and came follower looks great after 60.000miles...
> 
> btw: What is the point to use upgrated HPFP if stock delivered 130 bar and the Stage 2+ file is for 130 bar like stock ... ok midrange but it is deserves ?!


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

The cam follower is normal - digital camera makes the wear look exaggerated. Car gets Mobil1 0W40, which is a VW approved oil. Oil change intervals are more based on time due to low miles driven...I change my oil about once a year, which works out to about every 3k miles. 

Updating the thread, I'm surprised and disappointed at the lack of help from APR. In short, I sent an email with detailed car history and fuel logs, and the response I got was, "It could be a lot of things....check your cam follower.....take it to an authorized dealer." 

I've replaced the cam follower, changed the LPFP to the revised design, and changed the fuel filter to the updated 6.6 bar part. The fuel filter seemed to make a difference, because I couldnt recreate fuel cuts for the first 50 miles. Unfortunately, that good run of luck didnt last, and I'm back to getting fuel cuts at will The speed limit is 70 here in Texas, and that's the sweet spot for fuel cuts and limp mode. Not something you want to happen in traffic that's doing 80+ 

I dont expect APR to troubleshoot everyone's car, but with the forums littered with fuel cut issues, a little guidance would be nice. For example, inform the customer that the low fuel pressure code can be triggered by x, y, z, components. If APR knows how to test any of those with vagcom or a multimeter, that would also be helpful information. Point people to the ross-tech wiki on FSI fuel logging/specs? Something. 

I have a Bentley on the way and will try to contact Arin to see if he's able to provide any help. Running out of ideas, options, and hope...


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

if u have a vagcom do some test. log specified fuel press vs actual fuel pressure. so u can see what ur car is requesting for fuel and what ur actually getting 

go to ur apr dealer and tell them what ur problem is if u think its ur tune they should help u a little bit esp if they installed the wrong file. 

I know from experience with the APR dealer i had used bf i went to UNI, the guy there was a idiot and i was the one tht had to tell him which file i needed. (also told me my boost wouldn't be adjusted with the tune :banghead 

there are two stage two file and they were named Stage 2+DP and stage 2+HPFP


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## BlueJetta2.0T (Jun 30, 2009)

tarikata_cs said:


> btw: What is the point to use upgrated HPFP if stock delivered 130 bar and the Stage 2+ file is for 130 bar like stock ... ok midrange but it is deserves ?!


 upgraded fuel pump will deliver more fuel at the same pressure because of the larger pump shaft.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

BlueJetta2.0T said:


> upgraded fuel pump will deliver more fuel at the same pressure because of the larger pump shaft.


 Not really. The solenoid duty cycle is dependent on the readings from the rail sensor. 

The benefit is that you can achieve 130bar sooner and have more fueling headroom throughout the RPM range. 

Dave


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

APR verified the file was correct, and noted that an upgraded fuel pump may not solve the issue. 

I've done logging, and recorded deltas of specified and actual fuel rail pressure up to 70+ bar (spec is max 5 bar). The million dollar question is what's causing it. 

Does anybody know the difference between these two measuring blocks? 

Group 140, field 2 (rail pressure, actual) 
Group 230, field 1 (rail pressure, actual) 

The majority of rail pressure data from the two measuring groups is within 1% of each other, but when things go south, I see deltas up to 40 bar between the two groups. Don't know if that's relevant...


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## obdboost (Feb 27, 2010)

do you have a full log of flauts. what your low side and high side reading in mvb


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

The only fault that keeps popping up is this: 

Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl 
Part No SW: 1K0 907 115 H HW: 8P0 907 115 B 
Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0030 
Revision: 5BH14--- Serial number: VWZ7Z0F8099340 
Coding: 0403010A1C070160 
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200 
VCID: 2B7BD0DBF41F 

1 Fault Found: 
000135 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure: Too Low 
P0087 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent - MIL ON 
Freeze Frame: 
Fault Status: 10100010 
Fault Priority: 0 
Fault Frequency: 7 
Mileage: 36954 km 
Time Indication: 0 
Date: 2000.00.00 
Time: 01:15:13 

Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 5248 /min 
Load: 91.3 % 
Speed: 136.0 km/h 
Temperature: 86.0°C 
Temperature: 53.0°C 
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar 
Voltage: 13.716 V 

Readiness: 0000 0001 

I usually clear the code, install a possible fix, and try again. This most recent example is very typical typical...84 mph with a high load. 

I have a few data runs that captured multiple cuts, logging the following fields (per the ross tech wiki) 

*Group 103* 
Field 1: Fuel Pressure (Low) 
Field 2: Fuel Pump Adaptation 

*Group 140* 
Field 3: Fuel Rail Pressure (High) 

*Group 230* 
Field 1: Specified Fuel Rail Pressure (High) 
Field 2: Actual Fuel Rail Pressure (High) 
Field 3: Deviation between specified and actual fuel pressure 

Would be happy to mail those out to anyone interested.


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## obdboost (Feb 27, 2010)

i need numbers. low side fuel pressure should be about 6ish bar. high side should be 50bar then up up as the load does. what are your numbers. those are the specs so if you do a log that would help. then we can see if you have a low side or high side problem. what thrust sensor do you have? there also a sensor on the rail, it can be many things 

with my computer mvb 103 is low side 
mvb 106 is high side


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

What does mvb mean? 

The log I'm looking at has about 2,600 samples. 

Low side fuel pressure average is 5.8 bar. Lowest value recorded is 4.6 bar, and highest is 6.7. I replaced the in tank fuel pump with the latest revised part (1K0 919 051 DB), so I think that's ok. All data points for the low side are within factory spec (2800-7200 mbar) 

All FPR data points are also within factory spec (+/- 1000) 

High side actual pressure average is 93 bar. Lowest value recorded is 44 bar and highest is 129. This is above factory spec, I assume due to the APR programming. 

When I look at the data, I can see fuel cuts happening. The first sign is a difference (avg ~2 bar) between the two groups that measure actual rail pressure - Group 140 and Group 230. Next, the delta between requested and actual goes off the charts - spec is maximum 5 bar delta, but I'm seeing deltas up to 80 bar!  

I have the 06E 906 051K thrust sensor, which was replaced under warranty about 10k ago. I think that's the latest revision. 

I'm looking at the FSI Design and Function pdf, and it looks like there's a low side sensor up near cylinder 1. G410?


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## obdboost (Feb 27, 2010)

mvb mean measure value block. on the vag scan tool 103 is low side and 106 is high side fuel pressure. yes there is a fuel sensor on the rail near cylinder one. it should be a black 2 pin connector. if all your number are reading fine i would hook a fuel gauge and compare the two. you could have a flauty sensor, the fuel system can be working right and the sensor is reporting the incorrect info to the ecm


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

Oh, derp. Thanks - I'll try logging those blocks to see how they compare to Group 140 & Group 230.


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## obdboost (Feb 27, 2010)

when i say vag i mean the vw/audi scan tool you find at the dealer but i dont see why vag.com would be different blocks


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

Logged blocks 103 & 106 yesterday, and see basically the same data. 

Group 103, avg pressure 5 bar (lowest value 4 bar, highest 7 bar) 

Group 106, avg pressure 90 bar (lowest value 47 bar, highest 129 bar) 

Group 106 (Fuel Pump 1) avg value was 49%, but it went as high as 92% when the specified vs. actual got way out of whack. i.e. specified 126 bar, actual 82 bar...guessing the low volume pump was cranked up to compensate? Easy to see fuel cuts in the data, but I still have no idea what's actually causing them. 

Did some more reading last night, and plan to put my stock airbox back on. Found someone else with APR Stage 2 and a K&N intake that was experiencing fuel cuts due to the intake. Round vs. oval maf section and no laminar flow screen might mean problems with Stage 2+ under high load and low rpm situations. Worst case scenario, using the stock airbox will at least eliminate one more variable.


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## He||hammer (Jun 24, 2012)

KenTX said:


> Logged blocks 103 & 106 yesterday, and see basically the same data.
> 
> Group 103, avg pressure 5 bar (lowest value 4 bar, highest 7 bar)
> 
> ...


 I know it's been close to a year , but I was curious if you got your problem resolved, and if so what was the cause?


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

He||hammer said:


> I know it's been close to a year , but I was curious if you got your problem resolved, and if so what was the cause?


 After replacing everything under the sun on a car with 20k miles, I finally broke down and had APR rebuild the hpfp. The cuts were solved, and I could feel a significant difference in the way the car drove. I eventually upgraded from Stage 2 to Stage2+, but couldn't feel any difference. The car hasn't thrown a single code since I upgraded the pump. 

I'm glad the problem is fixed, but it was a disappointing customer experience.


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## He||hammer (Jun 24, 2012)

KenTX said:


> After replacing everything under the sun on a car with 20k miles, I finally broke down and had APR rebuild the hpfp. The cuts were solved, and I could feel a significant difference in the way the car drove. I eventually upgraded from Stage 2 to Stage2+, but couldn't feel any difference. The car hasn't thrown a single code since I upgraded the pump.
> 
> I'm glad the problem is fixed, but it was a disappointing customer experience.


 No doubt, Was your hpfp replaced by VW prior to having APR rebuild it?


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

He||hammer said:


> No doubt, Was your hpfp replaced by VW prior to having APR rebuild it?


 No, it was my original factory pump with 20k on it, and APR tested it before rebuilding. It's heresy to say the software caused fuel cuts, but it's true.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

KenTX said:


> No, it was my original factory pump with 20k on it, and APR tested it before rebuilding. It's heresy to say the software caused fuel cuts, but it's true.


I'm going to disagree that the software caused your fuel cuts. The Stage 2+ file you had was with or without pump, that doesnt necessarily mean you had the pump file to begin with. That same code you kept throwing i've see caused by the low side of the HPFP. It's usually a bad thrust sensor which there is an updated one, bad fuel filter or a failing LPFP. Now don't get me wrong you could have also had an OEM failing HPFP which caused your cuts too, or a worn down Camshaft. So trust me I understand your frustration because i've been there down that. But i strongly feel it was not the tune, APR has taken out the guess work on their tune and HPFP.


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## KenTX (Oct 25, 2006)

A3Performance said:


> I'm going to disagree that the software caused your fuel cuts. The Stage 2+ file you had was with or without pump, that doesnt necessarily mean you had the pump file to begin with. That same code you kept throwing i've see caused by the low side of the HPFP. It's usually a bad thrust sensor which there is an updated one, bad fuel filter or a failing LPFP. Now don't get me wrong you could have also had an OEM failing HPFP which caused your cuts too, or a worn down Camshaft. So trust me I understand your frustration because i've been there down that. But i strongly feel it was not the tune, APR has taken out the guess work on their tune and HPFP.


Unfortunately, this is the typical response. People don't bother to read any details, yet they're convinced it's anything but the software. It underlines my point. 

All the items you mention were addressed:
* software (APR verified correct stock pump file loaded)
* hpfp - APR tested the pump/solenoid before rebuilding
* fuel filter (replaced)
* cam follower (replaced with no meaningful wear, which rules the cam out)
* in tank fuel pump (replaced to updated part#)
* FRV tested (cracking at 130 bar)

Keep in mind, the car only had 20k miles and the only non-stock engine component was a catch can. It worked perfectly in stock mode and Stage 1, but fell on it's face with Stage 2. Installing an upgraded fuel pump solved the problem, which is a pretty common scenario.

Is it possible there's a mystery component that would cause Stage 2 cuts, yet be masked/fixed after installing an upgraded hpfp? Sure, and I would love to hear what it is. To me though, the signs point to software. It's not hard for me to believe X% of cars have an issue, due to the vast amount of variation involved - engine components, ECUs, auto/manual, driving style, weather conditions, etc. I've watched APR grow and innovate for the past ~12 years. They're clearly a market leader, but that doesn't mean they're infallible.


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