# BFI - Motor Mounts for your New Beetle



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

We are proud to offer our complete line of performance motor mounts for New Beetle applications. Our line of Full Poly mounts is unlike any other poly options available. They are produced from a two part liquid cast system in several durometers. This results in both a more uniform product as well as a more durable one.. 

To see our entire portfolio of *New Beetle model year 1995-2005* engine mounts, 


To see our entire portfolio of *New Beetle model year 2006-2010* engine mounts, 

Please post here, PM, or email us at: [email protected] with any questions.


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

*Promotion Expired*


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Hey, Pete! 

I have a number of older previous generation BFI stage 1 (yellow mounts); that I have installed on my 2002 New Beetle Turbo S, having gotten them used off the 'tex. The trans inserts/full engine mount; are used but have less then 20k on them. I first installed the dogbone inserts; then added the others recently. The (trans/engine) mounts are used and the dogbone inserts new, (directly from BFI). I added the dogbone first; vibration was very intense, so I put the smaller stock rubber piece back but kept the bigger yellow BFI one in. It was a good compromise and worked well; with minimal vibration but with better performance, reduced movement. I added the trans mount inserts and noticed a huge performance difference, as the stock one was smashed down and it "settled in" nicely! It was without allot of vibration and definitely bearable, added some vibration but didn't bother me that much. Then, when I added the full engine side; things took a turn for the worse! As others have mentioned; I am dealing with intense vibration issues and wondering about what type of things I should check, look for (dogbone/trans inserts; were not very bad by themselves): 

1. MOUNT(S) CENTER: LEFT/RIGHT POSITION?: 
trans (inserts)/engine mount (full BFI mount): How would one know if they are "centered" and know if they are not under too much stress, one way or the other: 
(e.g.: to the left to the right etc.) thus, causing undue noise/vibration. Have you guys, gotten a sense of where a correct "middle" is with these mounts is? (e.g: the least stress on either side and letting them doing their thing; best position to be the most in the "zone" of the poly mount material; if that makes sense)? I've looked over the install instructions but these type of issues; don't' seem to be addressed, maybe too many different applications to give the installer a sense of what would be normal? I've made a point; of keeping them parallel; as per the vw service manual. 

I had; no problem fitting in the trans insert side but the "full" engine side; required a lot of adjustment/movement of both sides, to even line up the bolt/mounting holes. From where I am at; the amount of "space" from the metal mounting areas; is similar but where has your experience shown, they should be at? I have a sense; most of the noise and vibration is coming from that side (full engine mount). 

2. MOUNT WEAR SPEC/HEIGHT?: when tightening the full engine mount; should the washer and bolt "seat", make contact with each other (metal/metal) @ the 40 ft pound tightening spec or are my two poly mounts possibly compressed/worn out? In other words; should there be enough height to the poly mounts, that the hex bolt/washer; does not make contact with the threaded portion of the mount (top to bottom)? Do you have a specification or height measurement for your stage 1 yellow mounts; so, owners know when they need replaced? Just trying to get a sense of what the "normal" and "worn out" parameters are. Eyeballing them; they seem ok but I was taking out what seemed to be pretty smashed/compressed stock rubber mounts @ about 80k miles. Can one; use a caliper on the mounts uninstalled or use a tape measure, with the mounts...installed, to figure this out? 

3. TRANS MOUNT "U" INSERT ORIENTATION: Also, when I installed the stage 1 trans inserts; they went in fine but I didn't know if there was a correct orientation for the "u" shaped insert portion! I couldn't seem to tell if there was but it looked the same to me; aside from that issue, the install process was trouble free/easy to do. Is there? 

4. NEW BLACK STAGE 1 UPGRADES: If my mounts; end up being worn out; what sort of upgrade price, do you give for previous owners of the yellow stage 1 mounts? 

5. ROLL PIN MOVEMENT FIX: On a side note; the engine side mount, had a problem, the poly portions of the mount were twisting around. After disassembly; I discovered, the roll pin was totally loose inside the hole (I believe the roll pin; seems to be not heavy duty enough for the application; stress put on it by the engine, wore it out). As as fix; I took a tap to create a 1/4"-#20 thread to the hole, added a long bolt and cut off the top/bottom, that way it would not move and is the same height as the original roll pin (fit into the top/bottom poly mounts fine, securely). I think this would be a good "fix" for the L/R movement issue. This seems to have been covered on a number of different VW enthusiast sites and you seemed to have responded to a customer, about the problem. I realize my "fix"; that this would require another machining operation but it will not move or wear out like a roll pin, problem solved! I think this is a area; that could be addressed with a redesign of the poly mount or maybe a fastener that went through the top/bottom of the poly portion of the mount, to stop movement or something similar to what I did? I maybe overthinking things but it was a easy way; to put in something that wouldn't move and (hopefully) keep the poly sections from turning/spinning (I put loctite on the threads; to keep threaded bolt remainder, secure). 

I apologize for the wide ranging questions and probably too long post; however, I have never been in another VW with your mounts and frankly, don't know what "normal" is supposed to be, again... I realize there are so many variables it maybe hard to give me a "normal" and what that is. Seeing, how hard the engine side was; I was feeling like, things were possibly incorrectly centered, worn out or I overlooked something obvious? 

Here is my setup: 2002 New Beetle Turbo S 1.8T AWP (stock); 02M six speed trans with a Wavetrac LSD and a Southbend Stage 2 Endurance Silent Clutch/SMF. I reset my trip odometer; I am now, at 220 miles with the BFI yellow stage 1 mounts installed. 

Thanks for reading and I appreciate, any possible ideas or comments, you might provide to help me with my BFI mount setup!


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

UPDATE: rechecked the trans side insert/mount; looks like one of the mounting bolts is stripped out in the aluminum trans bracket, so this might be contributing to the noise!? I"m going to try repairing the thread and see if that helps, either helicoil or time sert. 

I would still like to know; if there is a "correct" orientation, for the "u" shaped trans mount insert.

I'm almost at 300 miles; at idle with the a/c off, it is pretty quiet, when you rev the car off the line the vibration is pretty intense and interior panels, rear deck lid vibrates. When the a/c is on; there is definitely, more noise and vibration. 

Still trying to work through this and figure out potential problems, what is "normal" and possible solutions to make things more pleasant to drive every day. THanks! :wave:


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

billymade said:


> 1. MOUNT(S) CENTER: LEFT/RIGHT POSITION?:
> trans (inserts)/engine mount (full BFI mount): How would one know if they are "centered" and know if they are not under too much stress, one way or the other:
> (e.g.: to the left to the right etc.) thus, causing undue noise/vibration. Have you guys, gotten a sense of where a correct "middle" is with these mounts is? (e.g: the least stress on either side and letting them doing their thing; best position to be the most in the "zone" of the poly mount material; if that makes sense)? I've looked over the install instructions but these type of issues; don't' seem to be addressed, maybe too many different applications to give the installer a sense of what would be normal? I've made a point; of keeping them parallel; as per the vw service manual.
> 
> ...


Please refer to the bold text in the quote above.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Hey, Pete! Thanks for your reply! Based upon what you are saying; it looks like, I have narrowed down my problem to the full BFI engine/passenger side mount. If when torqued @ 40 ft pounds, the bolt head shouldn't make contact with the shaft (they are)... I would say that my bushings are toast! To quote you: _"if it stops on the center shaft " _, that must be it! Hopefully, that would explain; why, when adding that mount, the noise/vibration, increased so much! I think I will order; a new set of replacement bushings and see if that, fixes my problem!

On the roll pin issue; have you seen the roll pins get loose with other customers, inside the machined hole? My "fix"; seems like a permanent solution to the loose pin issue and using my technique, that wouldn't ever be a problem again. 

On the trans inserts; I was referring to the top piece that looks "U" shaped, in reference to that insert part. You could orient, the to the "right" or the "left" in the same "up/top" position, however when I was looking at the part, the orientation doesn't seem to matter. I was just wondering; if there was a correct orientation and if it mattered, I couldn't visually tell a difference. Again, my noise; seems to be coming from the engine side mount, now I believe my poly bushings are worn out. 

I appreciate, you taking the time to help me work through my issues with the BFI mounts! I will report back; when I install my replacement bushings and see if that fixes my problems! Thanks again! :wave:


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

billymade said:


> Hey, Pete! Thanks for your reply! Based upon what you are saying; it looks like I have narrowed down my problem to the full engine/passenger side mount. If when torqued @ 40 ft pounds, the bolt head shouldn't make contact with the shaft... I would say that my bushings are toast! To quote you: _"if it stops on the center shaft " _, that must be it! Hopefully, that would explain; why when adding that mount, the noise/vibration, increased so much! I think I will order; a new set of replacement bushings and see if that fixes my problem!
> 
> On the roll pin issue; have you seen the roll pins get loose with other customers, inside the machined hole? My "fix"; seems like a permanent solution to the problem and using my technique, that wouldn't ever be a problem again.
> 
> ...


I concur; your engine side poly inserts are likely worn and need to be replaced.

The dowels don't need to be loose or tight, they just need to stay engaged with both the top and bottom piece of poly to prevent it from spinning. That's the only reason why it's there.

If top piece of poly does not have a left or right side orientation. If you look at the piece, both side are symmetrical. It does have an up and down orientation though. However, you can't install the piece upside down because of the way the stock housing goes together. If you managed to put it together with this piece upside down, I congratulate you! 

Let me know how it goes! :thumbup:


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Hey, Pete! Before I buy new inserts; I thought I would show you what my engine side full mount looks like presently. I removed it tonite and put the stock mount back in; WOW!!!, totally different and the car has gone back to normal. All the harsh vibration and sound issues essentially went away. 







_This is what the mount looks like; torqued at 40 foot lbs, the bolt/washer *ARE *making contact with the center shaft, at this torque setting.
_





_As you can see; with the bolt/washer removed, there is very little height to the insert and it is almost the same height as the top of the shaft. I'm assuming; this isn't normal?_ 



_Here is what I did; for the roll pin that was worn out and moving in the machined hole: I took a tap to create a 1/4"-#20 thread to the hole, added a long bolt and cut off the top and bottom, ground off to the height of the original roll pin, put lock tite on the threads for security. This way it will not move and is the same height as the original roll pin (fit into the top/bottom poly inserts fine and they remain secure, no more movement issues)._

Let me know; what you think of the height of the inserts, based upon what you are saying... I'm thinking they are compressed and need replaced. Thanks! :wave:


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Just got done; chatting with BFI on their website, they mentioned another way to confirm your mounts are worn out: 

_*Quote: "The only way to know for sure is to measure the insert height. They have a total height of 50mm."*_


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

_Took off the mount and measured it (torqued at 40 ft pounds):
specification is 50MM, which is 1.9685 inches (roughly 2 inches)_

*1. bottom insert: top to bottom: 1-3/8", 35MM (should be 2" or 50MM)?*

*2. top insert: top to bottom: about the same: 1-3/8", 35MM (should be 2" or 50MM)?
*
*3. from the bottom metal (as pictured); to the top of the top insert: around 3-7/8", 98.4 MM*

I_s the measurement; with the inserts installed as shown and torqued or some other way? :screwy:_ 

So, based on the roughly two inches or 50MM; are we worn out? Looks like it?! :banghead:

_Confirmation; appreciated! Thanks! :wave:_


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

*Chatted with BFI this morning; from the website: *
_
BFI: That bottom insert looks awfully squished. I would definitely recommend some new inserts!
→Just for the benefit others; the 50 MM spec you gave me, how is that measured?
→The picture shows; the mount torqued at 40 ft pounds, is 50MM or 2" or so, measured for EACH part of the insert? I was getting about 35MM or 1-3/8" for each, as pictured.

BFI: 50mm is the height of the bushing from top of bottom (the longest measurement). If you exclude the portion that goes into the center bracket and only measure from the top and bottom mating surface, it should be 40mm or 1-9/16 inch.

BFI: Without you providing any measurements, the lower bushing is starting to collapse.

→Lastly, any reason; that I should replace my hardware, I got the mount used!
→Mounting hardware... center bolt etc.

BFI: The mounting hardware does not need to be replaced. These are not torque to yield bolts like what comes from the factory. You can reuse our bolts several times.
_

After that chat; I now have *CONFRIMATION*: that the inserts are bad, need replaced! _*Thanks, BFI!*_ :wave:


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