# Wich intercooler for less weight and power?



## oldcorradopower (Dec 17, 2002)

I dont care about installation time or price. Just wanna know the best intercooler design, endtanks and dyno proven out there. It's difficult for me because there's a lot to choose from. I used search and found nearly nothing. I think eurojet makes one complete kit.
Prefer to use front mount and remove stock IC from the car to save weight. So no twin intercooler setup exept if they are excellent and lightweight....wich is impossible because lightweight and efficient doesnt come one with the other.
Thanks


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2008)

OEM intercooler is between radiator and condensor, can't be removed unless you fab up a frame/bracket set up.


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## BSH Speedshop (Apr 22, 2009)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (oldcorradopower)*

Hi, I believe we have what you are looking for. 
Our kit utilizes a Garrett intercooler core and comes complete with all the piping needed to install. Before and after dyno testing on our 450 whp project car netter a 20 whp gain with nothing other then swapping intercoolers. Customer logs have shown excellent results on the stock turbo and our dyno testing show that it will carry you through your project. 








For more info:
http://www.bshspeedshop.com/st...age=1
Our stocking dealers who have kits ready to ship:
DBC Performance
Redline Motorworks


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (oldcorradopower)*

Have you seen the APR intercooler?
http://www.goapr.com/products/....html









Our intercooler was designed after gaining proprietary air flow information directly from Volkswagen about the front end design of the MKV. It was created at the request of Volkswagen of America in 2006 for the SEMA 2006 R-GTI concept vehicle which featured our stage III turbocharger kit. It completely replaces the OEM intercooler, is the largest on the market, and has shown no significant signs of heatsoak on a 620whp vehicle running 9 back to back runs. 

Several tests were done in order to prove the differences between the stock intercooler and the APR one. One test for thermal effectiveness involved placing the car on the dyno with our normal assortment and arrangement of cooling fans. The car was then run through a rigorous testing procedure that involved allowing it to idle to a normal operating temperature, and then running it through five power runs. It's not comparable to IAT logs taken on the street as they will be much lower. What is important to note is how much of a consistant improvement there is over stock:









During each run, the engine speed was brought to 2000 rpm for fifteen seconds. This allows the air to run throughout the system and allows the intake air temperature to normalize and negate heat soak from the car sitting at idle. The car was then taken from 2000rpm to 6800rpm at full throttle under load over the next thirty seconds. The car was then allowed to idle for one minute before the next run was started. Each lighter line on the graph above represents each power run, and the darker line represents the average over five runs.
The stock intercooler was tested on one day, the APR intercooler was installed, and the testing repeated the next day. The conditions were very similar on both days, however it was slightly hotter (3ºF) on the day the APR intercooler was tested.
Most alarming about this entire test was the fact that during the third run with the stock intercooler, the car began to pull boost and timing in order to protect itself from the high intake temperatures. The car also exhibited this protective behavior in both the fourth and fifth runs as well.
The APR intercooler performed as we expected, keeping the intake charge temps almost 40ºF lower by the end of the fifth run. Given the fact that no dynamometer test cell can reproduce the airflow that a car on the open road gets, we are confident that differences between the APR intercooler and the stock one would be even more apparent on the street or track.
During the testing on the dyno, a normal dyno power run was performed with each intercooler, and the APR intercooler recovered upwards of fifteen horsepower over the stock intercooler. The uncorrected, wheel horsepower is displayed in the graph below.









The Intercooler features:
* Cast Aluminum End Tanks
* Bar and Plate Core Design
* Silicone Pressure Hoses
* Direct OEM Fitment - NO Trimming Necessary
* Fits ANY Stock or Aftermarket Bumper Cover
* Adaptor Coupler for Stock Plumbing
Here is an other photo of the massive intercooler:


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

lol, that **** is BEEFY.
if i had the money, and wanted gobs of power, and a sleeper look, id go APR. u can use it with a K04, GT30, anything, and still get cold as ice.
i wish there was a way to move the condenser out of the way or maybe shrink it down... that way u get direct airflow over ur IC and rad.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*FV-QR*

The way the front end is designed you do get air directly over the intercooler. The condenser is not thick at all and does very little as far as blocking air flow.


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (oldcorradopower)*

The APR is a good option for your goals. Removing the stock intercooler will require making your own brackets to mount the condenser to the radiator.
Has anyone posted a DIY on deleting the stock intercooler? Can't find one although i have considered doing this myself since it is deadweight. As far as I've heard it doesn't weigh much though, so it is barely worth the trouble of removing.


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## oldcorradopower (Dec 17, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

apr is too big sorry
some more compact IC will do the trick for me, dont want turbo lag with my small stock k03.


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## Malaco0219 (Mar 18, 2007)

S3 and twinter cooler.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (oldcorradopower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oldcorradopower* »_apr is too big sorry
some more compact IC will do the trick for me, dont want turbo lag with my small stock k03.


I have seen 0 reports of increased turbo lag with our intercooler.


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

I have to agree that there would be less lag/pressure drop with the APR intercooler than alot of the true front mounts. Just because it's big doesn't mean it's going to cause lag. The stock and s3 intercoolers have the same surface area as the APR, they just aren't as thick.


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (LEWXCORE)*

I can affirm no lag from apr intercooler... In fact the thinks mind the car pulls harder and longer now


_Modified by sabba at 9:30 AM 9-12-2009_


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## oldcorradopower (Dec 17, 2002)

*Re: (Malaco0219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Malaco0219* »_S3 and twinter cooler.


overkill for road racing against STIs..


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (LEWXCORE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LEWXCORE* »_I have to agree that there would be less lag/pressure drop with the APR intercooler than alot of the true front mounts. Just because it's big doesn't mean it's going to cause lag. The stock and s3 intercoolers have the same surface area as the APR, they just aren't as thick.

this.
ur system will get colder air, and have to fill roughly the same amount of space, so it wont lag u... and if it does, oh well, cuz u will be pulling like a mofo while the rest of the pack is bogging down in the heat.
my stock IC gets heatsoaked so bad... i pull over and hose it off sometimes and she comes right back to life tho. lol


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? ([email protected])*

We will be doing a full write up on our thoughts pertaining the APR intercooler.This will be the second unit I have had my hands on and I will say this is one amazing piece of cooling technology.







for the guys @ APR for this.







to Arin too because we love Arin


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_
my stock IC gets heatsoaked so bad... i pull over and hose it off sometimes and she comes right back to life tho. lol

wait... you pull over and spray hose water through the condenser/intercooler/radiator sandwich in the hopes that it will bring your motor back to life??


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (LEWXCORE)*

hell yeah. my intercooler gets HOOOOTTTTTTTT... and u can feel my engine not pull anywhere near as hard the more traffic i hit... sitting in 98+ degree heat, idling, then stop and go, then more stop and go... then more...
so, i head home around lunch, spray my stuff down for a few seconds and i can spin in 3rd and chirp the rest of the way... for a few minutes anyways. 
i wish i had what my friend's STI has. he has a ring that shoots water all over his FMIC and that thing gets nice so chilled that u can touch it after he shuts the car off... mine, if u even stand near the front end ur baking.







and if u try to touch it... well, lets just say, i have a new scar on my index finger... lol


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (INA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *INA* »_







to Arin too because we love Arin






























Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emlips.gif http://****************.com/smile/emlips.gif http://****************.com/smile/emlips.gif


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## jaycheetwood (Jun 18, 2009)

I run eurojet FMIC.. never had any issues but that could be just me?


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_hell yeah. my intercooler gets HOOOOTTTTTTTT... and u can feel my engine not pull anywhere near as hard the more traffic i hit... sitting in 98+ degree heat, idling, then stop and go, then more stop and go... then more...
so, i head home around lunch, spray my stuff down for a few seconds and i can spin in 3rd and chirp the rest of the way... for a few minutes anyways. 
i wish i had what my friend's STI has. he has a ring that shoots water all over his FMIC and that thing gets nice so chilled that u can touch it after he shuts the car off... mine, if u even stand near the front end ur baking.







and if u try to touch it... well, lets just say, i have a new scar on my index finger... lol









dude your posts are pissing me off. you can't "touch" your stock intercooler unless you dimantle your front end. Go get some water/methanol injection and cool your boost charge with water, not your radiator.


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## wannagofast (May 25, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_my stock IC gets heatsoaked so bad... i pull over and hose it off sometimes and she comes right back to life tho. lol








Huh? I am not saying there is no heatsoak, but spraying down the IC. More like having the engine off while your wasting water is the reason the IAT cool off for a few minutes afterwards...hopefully the engine is off. You would be better off just driving like 50+mph for a few minutes to lower IAT. 
I don't know what your touching to burn your finger but I doubt it's the IC. The subies IC sits right on top of the engine, correct. So, they need all the help they can get...ours are in front and not on the engine.

_Modified by wannagofast at 10:50 PM 9-13-2009_


_Modified by wannagofast at 10:50 PM 9-13-2009_


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## MP413Racer (Aug 24, 2006)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (BSH Speedshop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BSH Speedshop* »_Hi, I believe we have what you are looking for. 
Our kit utilizes a Garrett intercooler core and comes complete with all the piping needed to install. Before and after dyno testing on our 450 whp project car netter a 20 whp gain with nothing other then swapping intercoolers. Customer logs have shown excellent results on the stock turbo and our dyno testing show that it will carry you through your project. 








For more info:
http://www.bshspeedshop.com/st...age=1
Our stocking dealers who have kits ready to ship:
DBC Performance
Redline Motorworks


so what was the "before" intercooler that the BSH intercooler was able to beat by 20whp?


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## little_red_fast (Sep 28, 2007)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (MP413Racer)*



MP413Racer said:


> so what was the "before" intercooler that the BSH intercooler was able to beat by 20whp?[/QUOTE
> Stock intercooler.]


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## oldcorradopower (Dec 17, 2002)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (little_red_fast)*

ok here's the point:
No need to show me dyno on big turbo setup pushing high boost and HP gaining 20 hp...
*I will use stock turbo or K04 maximum.*
Need an efficient and dyno proven IC using the stock turbo. 
Nice endtanks and IC design, good fit and aluminium piping that wont rust the first winter.
Is there only one intercooler on the marker for me ? Wich one is it ?
VF ? Eurojet ?


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Eurojet FMIC on a stage II+ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (oldcorradopower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oldcorradopower* »_ok here's the point:
No need to show me dyno on big turbo setup pushing high boost and HP gaining 20 hp...
*I will use stock turbo or K04 maximum.*
Need an efficient and dyno proven IC using the stock turbo. 
Nice endtanks and IC design, good fit and aluminium piping that wont rust the first winter.
Is there only one intercooler on the marker for me ? Wich one is it ?
VF ? Eurojet ?


not saying the vf and eurojet are junk because they are far better then stock without doubt. the apr unit will work great for a ko3 and you have plenty of head room for a k04 or a big turbo if you ever want to get crazy. 
what do the VF and eurojet units have over the APR that you are not conisidering the APR? IMHO when your talking over $600 who cares.....i'd rather just spring for the APR and get the best http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
you are not going to lag with the apr unit. there is no lag with a ko3 period............


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## gtiiiiiiii (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (RABIDRABBIT1983)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RABIDRABBIT1983* »_
not saying the vf and eurojet are junk because they are far better then stock without doubt. the apr unit will work great for a ko3 and you have plenty of head room for a k04 or a big turbo if you ever want to get crazy. 
what do the VF and eurojet units have over the APR that you are not conisidering the APR? IMHO when your talking over $600 who cares.....i'd rather just spring for the APR and get the best http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
you are not going to lag with the apr unit. there is no lag with a ko3 period............

Yeah I completely agree, definitely no lag with a k03 whatsoever. Their IC is efficient through being a good design, not by having a huge cheap core and nothing more. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Noside (Aug 20, 2008)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (gtiiiiiiii)*

Forge twintercooler, on a ko3 with forge waste gate actuator moving ko4 maf amounts








Ambient was 26.6*C spraying meth as well sorry I dont have any IAT's graphs with out it ATM but I can take them upon request
















no solid piping but my hoses after 2 years now still look like new with a little cleaning


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (oldcorradopower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oldcorradopower* »_No need to show me dyno on big turbo setup pushing high boost and HP gaining 20 hp...
*I will use stock turbo or K04 maximum.*
Need an efficient and dyno proven IC using the stock turbo. 
Nice endtanks and IC design, good fit and aluminium piping that wont rust the first winter.
Is there only one intercooler on the marker for me ? Wich one is it ?


I have a K04 on my car and I use the APR intercooler. I purchased it before I worked for APR. 
This graph here shows with only changing the intercooler on the stock K03 we were picking up horsepower. This is due to lower intake air temperature causing timing maps to increase timing, not decrease it.


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## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (oldcorradopower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oldcorradopower* »_ok here's the point:
No need to show me dyno on big turbo setup pushing high boost and HP gaining 20 hp...
*I will use stock turbo or K04 maximum.*
Need an efficient and dyno proven IC using the stock turbo. 
Nice endtanks and IC design, good fit and aluminium piping that wont rust the first winter.
Is there only one intercooler on the marker for me ? Wich one is it ?
VF ? Eurojet ?


Why not the OEM S3 intercooler?


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## BSH Speedshop (Apr 22, 2009)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (oldcorradopower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oldcorradopower* »_ok here's the point:
No need to show me dyno on big turbo setup pushing high boost and HP gaining 20 hp...
*I will use stock turbo or K04 maximum.*
Need an efficient and dyno proven IC using the stock turbo. 
Nice endtanks and IC design, good fit and aluminium piping that wont rust the first winter.
Is there only one intercooler on the marker for me ? Wich one is it ?
VF ? Eurojet ?


We also have good stock testing. Main goal was to show, this will get you started and carry you all the way until the end. We use the best intercooler cores on the market, one of the few who use an actual Garrett intercooler. Garrett cores are used by AMG, Saleen, SVT, McLaren, and now we are sticking them on VW's.







All plumbing is powdercoated aluminum, all brackets are aluminum, and all clamps and hardware are stainless steel. 
Stock Turbo Independent Testing:


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## oldcorradopower (Dec 17, 2002)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (BSH Speedshop)*

Ok I see now
APR and S3
Eurojet and VF
These are my favorites so far I think. I dont care about the other sorry.
Wich eurojet to choose ? there's 2 different setup I think.

Aluminium piping all over and stainless steel clamps are a must for me because of winter here in canada too much calcium on the road.


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## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (oldcorradopower)*

I would personally recommend the Eurojet intercooler. I bought it when they were the first intercooler on the market and I have had zero issues. all aluminum piping, cast end tanks, high quality silicone, and T-bolt clamps, 4 years, 2 Northern Michigan winters, 0 hiccups. It should be taken into account that installing the APR intercooler is more labor intensive as it is in the stock location. If a shop is installing for you, that could factor into the price. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*FV-QR*


_Quote »_I dont care about installation time or price. Just wanna know the best intercooler design, endtanks and dyno proven out there.

What other info would you like to know about our intercooler design? I can speak with the engineers on Monday to get you any information I cannot answer off the top of my head.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
What other info would you like to know about our intercooler design? I can speak with the engineers on Monday to get you any information I cannot answer off the top of my head. 

Arin, since you mention it, do you have any info about the VOLUME of these intercoolers ?
(meaning Stock vs S3 vs APR ?)


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Not off the top of the head. I'll ask the engineering department on Monday. 
I do have the core thickness though:
GTI - 32mm
S3 - 40mm
APR - 57mm


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Ar[email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Not off the top of the head. I'll ask the engineering department on Monday. 
I do have the core thickness though:
GTI - 32mm
S3 - 40mm
APR - 57mm 

Yes of course.Do ask though, i'm really curious.


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## oldcorradopower (Dec 17, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*

My First choice is to remove the stock IC, then put a nice front mount that will perform better than the twin cooler setup to save weight. After that, remove the useless plastic piping from the noise pipe.
I have no doubt that the APR is the best OEM style intercooler on the market, APR is a well known and trusted company and their product are excellent.
I want to clear the engine bay and save weight and gain boost power at the SAME time !
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*FV-QR*

BTW I just put ours on sale....


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *oldcorradopower* »_My First choice is to remove the stock IC, then put a nice front mount that will perform better than the twin cooler setup to save weight. After that, remove the useless plastic piping from the noise pipe.
I have no doubt that the APR is the best OEM style intercooler on the market, APR is a well known and trusted company and their product are excellent.
I want to clear the engine bay and save weight and gain boost power at the SAME time !
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



DUDE the stock intercooler weighs like 5 pounds...chill out. If you really want to drop weight, take it off the wheels and suspension, rear seats, spare, light weight battery..uhhh lighter seats, carbon fiber something? etc. taking 5 lbs off the front of your car won't do much at all.
and honestly, if i were so concerned with weight i would just go with the APR intercooler is price is not an issue. Otherwise you will have to fabricate brackets in the place of your stock intercooler to hold his old friends; radiator and condenser



_Modified by LEWXCORE at 6:44 AM 9-25-2009_


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## oldcorradopower (Dec 17, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (LEWXCORE)*

Thanks Lewxcore for the infos, already removed the spare tire and I'm trying to shave weight on my 30 pounds each 19 wheels( they are for sale) and factory radio and speakers !
Right now, I've removed more than 50 pounds ! With the new tire and rims I'm looking at 50 pounds too... so more than 110 pounds total with stock radio and speakers removed/replaced.


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## 2006vwgtipower (Jul 27, 2006)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (Noside)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noside* »_Forge twintercooler, on a ko3 with forge waste gate actuator moving ko4 maf amounts








Ambient was 26.6*C spraying meth as well sorry I dont have any IAT's graphs with out it ATM but I can take them upon request

no solid piping but my hoses after 2 years now still look like new with a little cleaning









Ur car looks naughty sir


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## ShutItDown (Jun 14, 2007)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (2006vwgtipower)*

I like how you say you dont care about the "other" company (BSH) when you are looking for great flow and something that just works great. Their Garret cores are the best on the market with beefy welds and air fins to direct cold air right into it. Sounds like a pretty good IC to me.


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## ryangti (Oct 5, 2008)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (oldcorradopower)*

forge twinter cooler man.


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## GrayMarauder (Nov 8, 2008)

*FV-QR*

I hate how these threads pop up, it always turns into companies showing why their intercooler is better than the other.
Personally, 
Do some research, what looks the best, search the forms, what fits your budget, and use common sense, it will serve you well. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


_Modified by GrayMarauder at 7:21 AM 10-29-2009_


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## Justhere4aday (Sep 20, 2009)

*Re: Wich intercooler for less weight and power? (ryangti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ryangti* »_forge twinter cooler man.

+s3 intercooler


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## GTI4john74 (Sep 23, 2008)

bump...

CTS has the OEM replacement FMIC.

I have one, it is rockin!

eace:


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## OEMplush1 (Jul 21, 2011)

I own a KO4 Eurojet kit with fmic, its not that large and the welds are not that nice. If you compare it to APR or the CTS unit you will see how much higher quality the parts and construction is not to mention size they are double the size. 

btw 19's are lame, not sure how your worried about weight rolling around them big boys.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)




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