# 170 HP 2.5!?!



## whitehare (Dec 25, 2006)

*Found on another forum*
That's what a Volkswagen Canada high rank manager told me this morning ( a friend of the dealership owner I'm doing business with for a long time).
"Are your sure, I asked". "Totally, he told me. Volkswagen Canada advised me last friday about this. The Jetta AND the Rabbit will both come with the 2.5 170 hp, in Canada at least. It will be standard on the Rabbit, maybe optional on the Jetta if they do make a Value Edition with 150 hp. I don't know yet the torque figures, but the 170 hp 2.5 engine is official is official for 2008 model year"...
"These cars will be available in september/october 2007 in Canada, and the 2007 Rabbit is no longer in our computer order system"...

Thoughts?


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## Silver__DUB (Oct 3, 2006)

yeah, that has been floating around for a bit, what a piss off for people already owning one. can,t wait to see what the difference is to see if we will be able to make the mod, i.e. just the ecu, etc


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## ahson (Jul 23, 2000)

lol...just bought my Rabbit...oh well....
Anyway....VW always do this on their car.
Like my current 1.8T, when the time I got it, it has 150hp.
After 1 or 2 years I got my 1.8T... those new 1.8T has 30hp+ : 180hp.



_Modified by ahson at 8:05 PM 3-12-2007_


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## golf_stream (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: (ahson)*

im prayin its a flash upgrade or exhaust/intake caus im gettin a rabbit this thurs


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## whitehare (Dec 25, 2006)

*Re: (golf_stream)*

Nice! What kind? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## golf_stream (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: (whitehare)*

reflex silver 2dr 5spd with 11 miles on it and 16' alloys
+no holes were drilled in the front for a plate


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## @[email protected] (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (golf_stream)*

Not worried here. I remember the MKII Golf 8V was like 100 hp and then the GTi came with 110, all you had to do was change the downpipe and bam, 10 hp. Same with 16v MKII GTi, 128hp in NA and the Euro's had 139hp, all you needed was a Euro Intake Mani... Should be easy to swap for parts.


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## OneSpock (Mar 11, 2007)

*Re: (Silver__DUB)*

Damn for real? 170? Well hopefully it will just be a header, manifold, downpipe or something. If I could have waited for the 08 i would have, but my car was dead, and I love my bunny so...haha, like I said, hopefully it will be something easy and cheap!


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## OneSpock (Mar 11, 2007)

*Re: 170 HP 2.5!?! (whitehare)*

Well, ive been doing a little research, and it seems there might not be anything to be scared or shaken up about. See, there is this good possibility that there wont be a 2.5 with 170. They are releasing the new Gold GT, Which houses a 1.4L TSI engine. It's got 170hp and better gas mileage, so this might just be the vehicle the rep speaks of. I am not certain however, just what I have read and what seems to be. The car looks great so far tho, but if this is the case, it already has twin chargers so they 2.5 will likely have more potential in the long run. Check it out for yourselves, google it or whatever and get back to me. Hopefully this is the case, and I wont be all down about the lacking 20 hp







Also, any links to anything describing the 170 2.5 would be much appreciated, Id love to see if theres any truth to it. But until then, Ill just proceed to remain ignorant to the fact that my engine was just first gen, haha.


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: 170 HP 2.5!?! (whitehare)*

whats the concern about, hasn't the bunny already been shown to have around 165hp, stock? with the addition of a CAI or shorty intake boosting it to over 170 hp. seems as though VW may be stating actual number for the new year model.


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## rare (Apr 7, 2005)

If this happens they should offer to flash my ECU for free.


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## Slipstream (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (rare)*

I really don't see them replacing the 2.5L for the TSI motor. Yes, it's cooler for us enthusiasts, but it requires premium fuel and the maintenance on that thing is bound to be a nightmare. The last thing the NA Volkswagen dealership network needs is a difficult engine to repair... They can barely figure out the simple ones we have now.


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## huevosrancheros (Dec 13, 2006)

*Re: 170 HP 2.5!?! (whitehare)*

Nooooooooooooooo


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## Smoked02Jetta (Jan 23, 2006)

*Re: 170 HP 2.5!?! (huevosrancheros)*

It's probably something simple like a flash hopefully!


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## tewkewl74 (Apr 24, 2006)

i'm sure it will be minor changes. it could be more involved like more valves or something though, in which case, we are screwed. the vr6 went from 174 to 204. remember that? apparently that was a more involved change. 
hopefully it will be something we can bolt on pretty quickly.
i have a package 1 2005.5 which has climate control, auto wipers, and auto lights. if i wanted to get that in a 2008, i would need to get a package 2. and i hate real leather seats! they turn into shiney used wallet looking seats after a year. i much more prefer the leatherette. it lasts much much longer and looks nice it's whole life!


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## Giancarlo (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: (tewkewl74)*

This will be small changes no doubt, remember that the 2.5 was suppossed to come out with 170hp and then at the last minute they detuned it somehow (nobody has really figured out if it was just programing or what they did), so they had the 2.5 develpod for 170hp since the get go.
The question is if we will be able to upgrade our 150hp 2.5's to get 170hp or will the changes be small but significant, like cams or something. (and by small I mean small for VW to have changed not for us).


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Giancarlo)*

maybe it will just have a better intake.


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## golf_stream (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: (Giancarlo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Giancarlo* »_This will be small changes no doubt, remember that the 2.5 was suppossed to come out with 170hp and then at the last minute they detuned it somehow (nobody has really figured out if it was just programing or what they did), so they had the 2.5 develpod for 170hp since the get go.
The question is if we will be able to upgrade our 150hp 2.5's to get 170hp or will the changes be small but significant, like cams or something. (and by small I mean small for VW to have changed not for us).


if that is the case then i'm goin to be happy...its sucks that they didnt leave it 170, but that would've affected the sales of the new GTi


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## Giancarlo (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: (golf_stream)*

You never know WHY VW does things like they do, like they underrate their engines by a LOT, so maybe they will bw small changes and state real hp, instead of underrated. Even the GTI is underrated.
I doubt they would change the intake much as they did this for emissions and fuel economy, so maybe they will leave it as is.
We would have a lot more info if somebody really showed a graph of what chip tuning by itself can really do. 
Still good news for VW that they are uprating the hp of their entry level engine.


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## rental_metard (Jul 17, 2006)

Its not just an intake.


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## golf_stream (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: (rental_metard)*

I'm wondering why the hell my tach goes up to 8k and redline is before 6 when max power is a little before 4500 in my Rabbit...










_Modified by golf_stream at 10:35 PM 3-13-2007_


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## the s is silent (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: (golf_stream)*


_Quote, originally posted by *golf_stream* »_I'm wondering why the hell my tach goes up to 8k and redline is before 6 when max power is a little before 4500 in my Rabbit...









_Modified by golf_stream at 10:35 PM 3-13-2007_

Because your peak torque is just past 3k. Reving this engine past 6k would gain you absolutely nothing.


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## golf_stream (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: (the s is silent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the s is silent* »_
Because your peak torque is just past 3k. Reving this engine past 6k would gain you absolutely nothing.

i know peak HP is a little before 4500rpm, what im saying is why the hell idoes the tach go so high


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## @[email protected] (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (Slipstream)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Slipstream* »_I really don't see them replacing the 2.5L for the TSI motor. Yes, it's cooler for us enthusiasts, but it requires premium fuel and the maintenance on that thing is bound to be a nightmare. The last thing the NA Volkswagen dealership network needs is a difficult engine to repair... They can barely figure out the simple ones we have now. 

I agree. I'm 87.45% sure it won't be the TSI engine. C'mon, the 2.5 is the base motor. Basically a caveman motor with the least amount of technology. Why would VW release the TSI into the mix? I believe it has both a supercharger and a turbocharger, with VW's rep on reliability, can you picture this nightmare with maintenance? The 2.0T's are already showing probs, this thing would be disastrous.
I have heard from many people it will be a 2.5 with 170hp. I bet they either change the ECU or the downpipe. The Intake and Downpipe and ECU is garbage as stock, it's very easy to improve on it and some of us know (CAI anyone?)
It's common that VW would do this, 150hp 1.8T became 180hp, 172hp VR6 became 200hp... 
Can't wait to swap out a part for this bump in power. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## @[email protected] (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (@[email protected])*

If our mileage sucks now, can you imagine what it'd be like with 20 more horsepowerz?








Maybe they'll improve on it....


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## Yevi (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (@[email protected])*

actually, just because extra 20 hp, your mileage would not be affected , if it just ecu flash upgade
Yev


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## OneSpock (Mar 11, 2007)

*Re: (@[email protected])*

Heard that the 170hp is supposed to have better mpg than the 150 tho. Probably accomplished with a better downpipe, intake, and ecu flash that probably affects the fuel intake. Dunno tho, waitin for the VW people to get back to me still, but I should know soon enough, if they ever get around to emailing me back...


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## @[email protected] (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (OneSpock)*

Whatever it is, i'm sure we'll find a way to pick up this gain, unless it's internals we're talking about.


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## OneSpock (Mar 11, 2007)

*Re: (@[email protected])*

Guess we'll have to wait and see. VW got back to me and they aren't talkin.







I posted the email, you should check it out.


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## BlueMKV (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (@[email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *@[email protected]* »_
I agree. I'm 87.45% sure it won't be the TSI engine. C'mon, the 2.5 is the base motor. Basically a *caveman* motor with the least amount of technology. Why would VW release the TSI into the mix? I believe it has both a supercharger and a turbocharger, with VW's rep on reliability, can you picture this nightmare with maintenance? The 2.0T's are already showing probs, this thing would be disastrous.


Can you relax with the caveman comments!!


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## ahson (Jul 23, 2000)

..and I just read it from the MKV section, it said the 2 door Rabbit will be included the iPod Adapter too! Man...man.....I am a little bit....sorrow =[


_Modified by ahson at 2:21 PM 3-14-2007_


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: (ahson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ahson* »_..and I just read it from the MKV section, it said the 2 door Rabbit will be included the iPod Adapter too! Man...man.....I am a little bit....sorrow =[

_Modified by ahson at 2:21 PM 3-14-2007_

my 2dr rabbit has ipod adapter in glove box?


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## golf_stream (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: (@[email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *@[email protected]* »_Whatever it is, i'm sure we'll find a way to pick up this gain, unless it's internals we're talking about.

ya that will piss me off quite a bit if it were (like the internals of a obd1 2.0 8v vs. a obd2 2.0 8v







)


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## @[email protected] (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (BlueMKV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlueMKV* »_
Can you relax with the caveman comments!!

















Bahahaha, good to have some humor in here some time http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
And to AbCzech, that's not an Ipod Adaptor, that's the AUX Jack. Yes you can use the IPOD there, but you'll have wires running from the glove box to your cupholder (where you'll most likely have it sitting), the IPOD Adaptor I believe starts at the center console, and you can actually mount and plug it in there for a cleaner look.


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## Froster (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: (@[email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *@[email protected]* »_And to AbCzech, that's not an Ipod Adaptor, that's the AUX Jack. Yes you can use the IPOD there, but you'll have wires running from the glove box to your cupholder (where you'll most likely have it sitting), the IPOD Adaptor I believe starts at the center console, and you can actually mount and plug it in there for a cleaner look.

I seriously doubt that they will make add the iPod adapter to any model/package. Its a mess of an adapter that doesn't display any information on the headunit, and does not allow control from the iPod when its hooked up. It would be the cause of more complaints than sales.
With the 170hp version coming, it really makes me wonder if that is why we have not heard much in the way of chip tuning for the 2.5? With all of the new Rabbit owners adding to the existing market of Jetta owners, I don't think its a supply issue like some of the tuners are saying. Rather, I think its that they were aware of changes to the stock tuning coming down the pike and are playing wait and see.
I would also like to know what the situation with the torque spec is on the updated engine. If we knew the torque and hp numbers were closer or further apart, it might indicate what's changing.
One last thing, if it is just an issue of the car being retuned from the factory, its not necessarily going to help us. The Euro Edition 30 has 30 more HP than the standard GTI, but that doesn't help the 2.0T crowd upgrade to get those extra 30 horses more easily. They are still with aftermarket chips that are only marginally more power than what VW provides on the Edition 30. I really hope that most of the difference is something mechanical...


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## BlueMKV (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (@[email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *@[email protected]* »_
Bahahaha, good to have some humor in here some time http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


I agree...We can learn and have fun at the same time!


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: (BlueMKV)*

I'm checking with my parts manager every update of the parts catalog...so far, we don't have 2008 rabbit's listed so I can't see what parts have changed...hopefully soon















BTW, it is definitely a 2.5L 170hp
and the ipod adapter option comes with an armrest







(already installed one in mine, but I thought it was a nice touch)
I don't see anything about a 2dr sunroof still though...


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## Froster (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: (veedubtek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedubtek* »_and the ipod adapter option comes with an armrest







(already installed one in mine, but I thought it was a nice touch)
I don't see anything about a 2dr sunroof still though...

That surprises me. If I'm not mistaken, the ipod adapter uses the slot in the armrest that a 6-disc changer would occupy in a Nav-equipped car. So the Rabbits are going to get the more rare style of arm rest as a part of the iPod adapter option? How much are they going to charge for that? The last time I looked into an arm rest by itself, it was going to be over $500 Canadian for the parts, and that was for the type of arm rest in the Jettas and 4 door Rabbits rather than the more exotic one (and without the cost of the iPod connector at that).


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## @[email protected] (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (veedubtek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedubtek* »_I'm checking with my parts manager every update of the parts catalog...so far, we don't have 2008 rabbit's listed so I can't see what parts have changed...hopefully soon















BTW, it is definitely a 2.5L 170hp
and the ipod adapter option comes with an armrest







(already installed one in mine, but I thought it was a nice touch)
*I don't see anything about a 2dr sunroof still though...*

It's good to be Canadian... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I have a 2door sunroof


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## Froster (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: (@[email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *@[email protected]* »_
It's good to be Canadian... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I have a 2door sunroof









Well, it was nice to have the option anyhow. 
I bought a car off the lot without a sunroof. This is my first car in the last 6 years to not have a sunroof. The other day when it was nice and warm I would have loved one. It seemed that the only time I ever loved having a sunroof was on a warm spring day. When I used it in the summer, I had my windows down, and in the fall and winter I didn't use it. Hard to rationalize, but I did enjoy having them for the last 6 years.


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## @[email protected] (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (Froster)*

IMHO the sunroof is one of the things I look forward to whenever I get in my car. I find excuses to use it. +4 Celcius? Sunroof time!
Honestly though, I love driving at like 3am on a cool summer night just crusing on the hwy with the sunroof open...Can't wait for this summer to try that with my Bunny and all while listening to my CAI'd 2.5L VR sound http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I waited 3 months for my Bunny the way I wanted it. Votex'd and sunroofed FTW!


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## Froster (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: (@[email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *@[email protected]* »_IMHO the sunroof is one of the things I look forward to whenever I get in my car. I find excuses to use it. +4 Celcius? Sunroof time!
Honestly though, I love driving at like 3am on a cool summer night just crusing on the hwy with the sunroof open...Can't wait for this summer to try that with my Bunny and all while listening to my CAI'd 2.5L VR sound http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I waited 3 months for my Bunny the way I wanted it. Votex'd and sunroofed FTW!

A cool summer night is windows wide open time. I'm one of those people who always drives with the windows open unless I'm in traffic (A/C is better than exhaust from beat up minivans), and by the end of the summer, I have the pronounced 'arm out the window tan' with one arm always darker than the other. 
I waited 3 days for the car how I wanted it, and got VW to chip in for the convenience package that I didn't want







.


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## Smoked02Jetta (Jan 23, 2006)

*Re: (Froster)*

Figured you guys would like this..... From another post about the 2.5 chnages in the MKV forum.....
Quote, originally posted by Slipstream » 
I'm betting it's a redesigned intake tract / manifold and a flash of some kind. I would think that'd be the easiest (and most cost efficient) method of squeezing out a bit more power. *Correct! New intake and software changes *










_Modified by Smoked02Jetta at 12:49 PM 3-16-2007_


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## ShadowRabbit6 (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: (golf_stream)*


_Quote, originally posted by *golf_stream* »_
+no holes were drilled in the front for a plate

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I made sure mine left the dealer without the front plate bracket too.


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: (Smoked02Jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Smoked02Jetta* »_*Correct! New intake and software changes *


While this sounds like the best guess going atm, I'd love to hear it confirmed.


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: (Froster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Froster* »_That surprises me. If I'm not mistaken, the ipod adapter uses the slot in the armrest that a 6-disc changer would occupy in a Nav-equipped car. So the Rabbits are going to get the more rare style of arm rest as a part of the iPod adapter option? How much are they going to charge for that? The last time I looked into an arm rest by itself, it was going to be over $500 Canadian for the parts, and that was for the type of arm rest in the Jettas and 4 door Rabbits rather than the more exotic one (and without the cost of the iPod connector at that).


this is actually the style I bought, and tbh, I'd prefer to have the other one...I may actually order the cover and swap them out...the cover is the only thing different and it's only ~$40 or so last I checked
as for what this will cost as an option, your guess is as good as mine, and I'd imagine it'll be rolled into a package of sorts


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## the s is silent (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: (Smoked02Jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Smoked02Jetta* »_Figured you guys would like this..... From another post about the 2.5 chnages in the MKV forum.....
Quote, originally posted by Slipstream » 
I'm betting it's a redesigned intake tract / manifold and a flash of some kind. I would think that'd be the easiest (and most cost efficient) method of squeezing out a bit more power. *Correct! New intake and software changes *









_Modified by Smoked02Jetta at 12:49 PM 3-16-2007_

Do you know this for certain, or are you just quoting somebody else's best guess, because that's what it looks like from where I'm sitting.


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## L4YERCAK3 (Jul 9, 2006)

*Re: (the s is silent)*

He's quoting TURBO PAUL from this http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=3 
Also from TURBO PAUL on page 4:
Quote, originally posted by Slipstream »
Woohoo, I'm right! It happens every once in awhile. Maybe I'll hold off on getting a CAI until we know more about the intake setup. What are the chances the dealer network will be cooperative in flashing the ECU for us?
Zero and none. We won't have a program to flash your car with, as this is a factory change for a new model year, not a TSB applied to existing cars.


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## the s is silent (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: (L4YERCAK3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *L4YERCAK3* »_He's quoting TURBO PAUL from this http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=3 
Also from TURBO PAUL on page 4:
Quote, originally posted by Slipstream »
Woohoo, I'm right! It happens every once in awhile. Maybe I'll hold off on getting a CAI until we know more about the intake setup. What are the chances the dealer network will be cooperative in flashing the ECU for us?
Zero and none. We won't have a program to flash your car with, as this is a factory change for a new model year, not a TSB applied to existing cars. 

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Will the parts be compatible with the earlier model years? The dealer won't go in and just change it for us, but can it be purchsed? Like swapping out the engine control computer on older cars?


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## L4YERCAK3 (Jul 9, 2006)

*Re: (the s is silent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the s is silent* »_
Will the parts be compatible with the earlier model years? The dealer won't go in and just change it for us, but can it be purchsed? Like swapping out the engine control computer on older cars?

No idea. Not even the dealers know everything yet.


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## Froster (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: (the s is silent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the s is silent* »_
Ok. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Will the parts be compatible with the earlier model years? The dealer won't go in and just change it for us, but can it be purchsed? Like swapping out the engine control computer on older cars?

There's no way that the dealer will help you on this. 
This is what frustrates me. I wouldn't mind upgrading the parts, but am I loosing my powertrain warranty? VW says for example that they have upgraded the tranny for the extra power (which I happen to think is BS) but that's probably enough that if you did update the engine to the new spec and had any tranny probs, that you would be SOL. I think I'm going to have to stick with the plan of getting an intake to get a chunk of that power increase, where replacing MAF sensors and the like are about the worst thing that VW can really ding you for in terms of warranty work.


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## vw_rabbit (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: (Froster)*

Could it be a 2.5 FSI ???


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## Froster (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: (vw_rabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw_rabbit* »_Could it be a 2.5 FSI ???

Nope. We don't have the fuel for it. Would you buy an economy car that required Premium fuel? Dont forget regular fuel here is 87 octane while Regular in Europe is 95 RON which equals about 90 or 91 octane in our system (R+M /2). All FSI engines need better gas with less sulphur than we have widely available (though Canadian gas is getting better*). 
*Quick Note: During the fuel shortage here a few weeks back, we had the displeasure of learning that when gas supplies are low here in Ontario, that it had to be brought in from the west or Quebec because American fuel doesn't meet the new regulations.


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## Mike Gordon (Apr 11, 2005)

*Re: (Froster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Froster* »_
There's no way that the dealer will help you on this. 
for example that they have upgraded the tranny for the extra power (which I happen to think is BS) 

No ****. Like the tranny can't handle another 20 horses.


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## vw_rabbit (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: (Froster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Froster* »_
Nope. We don't have the fuel for it. Would you buy an economy car that required Premium fuel? Dont forget regular fuel here is 87 octane while Regular in Europe is 95 RON which equals about 90 or 91 octane in our system (R+M /2). All FSI engines need better gas with less sulphur than we have widely available (though Canadian gas is getting better*). 
*Quick Note: During the fuel shortage here a few weeks back, we had the displeasure of learning that when gas supplies are low here in Ontario, that it had to be brought in from the west or Quebec because American fuel doesn't meet the new regulations.

Well some Audis and the GTI has FSI engine that works perfectly with our fuel, by the way direct injection of fuel tends to cool the cylinder so it is less prone to ping. Running the 2.5 with FSI technology is possible but may cost more ...


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## Froster (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: (vw_rabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw_rabbit* »_*Well some Audis and the GTI has FSI engine that works perfectly with our fuel,* by the way direct injection of fuel tends to cool the cylinder so it is less prone to ping. Running the 2.5 with FSI technology is possible but may cost more ...

And what fuel do they use?? 91 octane premium, which is roughly equal to 95 RON *regular* in Europe. Thats the difference. Yes these cars can run here, but who wants to buy a pratical, economy minded car that takes premium? In Europe, its not an issue because their regular fuel is roughly equivalent to our premium, and all cars must be spec'd to run on their regular gas.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: (Froster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Froster* »_... All FSI engines need better gas with less sulphur than we have widely available....

Isn't the GTI's 2.0 an FSI? how does it manage without low(er) sulphur?


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## BadAssLilR32 (Oct 20, 2000)

*Re: (L4YERCAK3)*

New intake design is my guess....anything is a improvement over the current stock setup. Buy an intake, and boom, you have that and then some. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vw_rabbit (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: (BadAssLilR32)*

Stop saying crap, first octane rating as to do with compression ratio , so a 2.5 FSI would still have a 9.5:10 and even if they raise it , the benefit of direct fuel injection (cooling effect) reduce the knocking.
Second, Regular gas in Europe is 91 RON ...so 87 AKI (North America)
Different countries have some variation in what RON (Research Octane Number) is standard for gasoline, or petrol. In the UK, ordinary regular unleaded petrol is 91 RON (not commonly available), premium unleaded petrol is always 95 RON, and super unleaded is usually 97-98 RON. However both Shell and BP produce fuel at 102 RON for cars with hi-performance engines, and the supermarket chain Tesco began in 2006 to sell super unleaded petrol rated at 99 RON. In the US, octane ratings in fuels can vary between 86-87 AKI (91-92 RON) for regular, through 89-90 (94-95) for mid-grade (European Premium), up to 90-94 (RON 95-99) for premium unleaded or E10 (Super in Europe)


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (vw_rabbit)*

all we know so far is a new intake and new ECU programming. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
lets hope its nothing more than that


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## VAGMeister (Sep 7, 2005)

*Re: 170 HP 2.5!?! (whatsyourbeef)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whatsyourbeef* »_whats the concern about, hasn't the bunny already been shown to have around 165hp, stock? with the addition of a CAI or shorty intake boosting it to over 170 hp. seems as though VW may be stating actual number for the new year model. 

My thoughts exactly.


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## VWkid2112 (Jun 27, 2005)

question. If we were to be able to swap parts out. How would we get ahold of them? like just go up to a Dub dealership and be like, "hey can i get the new rabbit parts?"


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## Froster (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: (vw_rabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw_rabbit* »_Second, Regular gas in Europe is 91 RON ...so 87 AKI (North America)
Different countries have some variation in what RON (Research Octane Number) is standard for gasoline, or petrol. In the UK, ordinary regular unleaded petrol is 91 RON (not commonly available), premium unleaded petrol is always 95 RON, and super unleaded is usually 97-98 RON. However both Shell and BP produce fuel at 102 RON for cars with hi-performance engines, and the supermarket chain Tesco began in 2006 to sell super unleaded petrol rated at 99 RON. In the US, octane ratings in fuels can vary between 86-87 AKI (91-92 RON) for regular, through 89-90 (94-95) for mid-grade (European Premium), up to 90-94 (RON 95-99) for premium unleaded or E10 (Super in Europe)

Only partially true. 91 RON (87 AKI) is the lowest octane fuel available in Europe, as it is here. However, 91 RON fuel represents about 9% of the total fuel sold in Europe, and the rest of the fuel sold in Europe is 95 RON or better (usually 98 RON). In an industrialized European nation (UK, France, Germany, etc.) buying 91 RON fuel would take effort to find, if you can find it at all. 
In terms of sulphur content, in the UK, fuel has below 50 ppm of sulphur, and Germany, its under 10 ppm. As of 2005, all fuel is required to have less than 50 ppm sulphur in Europe. Previously, fuel sold in Canada (not sure about the American regulations) could be found with sulphur content as high as 600 ppm (though the old regulation was 500 ppm max). This has dropped dramatically in the last few years, and the current maximum is 80 ppm with an average of 30 ppm in Canada. 
So, the sulphur content differences are working themselves out, and all we need is a little more octane to be able to get the most out of FSI engines. Until that happes though, FSI isn't going to be an option for North America as vw_rabbit suggested. We do have a pretty good indication from dealer employees that it is an intake and ecu change. I'm fairly happy with that answer.


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## Slipstream (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (mujjuman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mujjuman* »_all we know so far is a new intake and new ECU programming. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
lets hope its nothing more than that









I'm wondering if it's just the intake tracting, or the entire manifold itself. The OEM unit looks pretty darn restrictive from what I've seen of it.


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

*Re: (Froster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Froster* »_
In terms of sulphur content, in the UK, fuel has below 50 ppm of sulphur, and Germany, its under 10 ppm. As of 2005, all fuel is required to have less than 50 ppm sulphur in Europe. Previously, fuel sold in Canada (not sure about the American regulations) could be found with sulphur content as high as 600 ppm (though the old regulation was 500 ppm max). This has dropped dramatically in the last few years, and the current maximum is 80 ppm with an average of 30 ppm in Canada. 

Indeed, the same standards that apply in Canada apply in the US. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/l...g.pdf
That document will make you cross-eyed right quick.


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: (Froster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Froster* »_ We do have a pretty good indication from dealer employees that it is an intake and ecu change


I don't believe it yet...no word has come down to us, I've asked 2 instructors, a regional sales rep and my regional technical rep, and noone knows anything about it. I keep checking the parts catalog every update, and so far, 2008 models aren't listed yet. Once they are, I'll see what parts are different in there and hopefully make some sense out of it.


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## bradmb (May 2, 2006)

ill would just take the rabbit for a test drive by myslef and swap the parts out. lmao, if they would let me take the car by myself. ive had them do it before.


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## 9xnine (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (Froster)*

Guys I installed my techtonics exhaust and am waiting on my ABD intake but the exhaust made a huge difference from 4500rpm on up. After installing the exhaust I believe this engine is really choked up as far as air goes and that the exhaust and intake alone will get you close to 170hp. I know it sounds like alot but Ive never had an exhaust make this much difference on any of my previous 8 Vw's.


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## scaldedhare (Mar 13, 2007)

If anyone saw the pictures of the Jetta wagon w/ the 170hp 2.5, it looks like the redline is around 6200 rpm instead of 5800. So whatever VW is doing allows the new motor to have some more power up top.. different cam profiles maybe? Although if the intake allows better power up top, that might be it.
Thoughts?


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## oeness (Apr 20, 2007)

*Re: (9xnine)*


_Quote, originally posted by *9xnine* »_Guys I installed my techtonics exhaust and am waiting on my ABD intake but the exhaust made a huge difference from 4500rpm on up. After installing the exhaust I believe this engine is really choked up as far as air goes and that the exhaust and intake alone will get you close to 170hp. I know it sounds like alot but Ive never had an exhaust make this much difference on any of my previous 8 Vw's.

Single or dual muffler?


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## 71DubBugBug (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: (ahson)*

in the 1.8t, the switched from a ko3 turbo to a ko3s turbo.


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## TheGermanExperience (Dec 11, 2002)

*Re: (71DubBugBug)*

does anyone know if the 2.5L has any type of variable valve timing? 
Depending on the system, such as Honda's i-Vtec, BMW's Valvetronic, or Porsche's Variocam plus, it is almost like changing cams, but on the fly, depending on what the gas pedal is doing(flooring it, taking it easy, revving it out, etc). I sell Audi's and I noticed that all the cars with the 4.2 V-8 non-FSI have different outputs according to intended purpose. The '06 S4 had 340hp/302tq, the A6 335hp/310ft-lbs, the A8 335/317, and the 06 vw Touareg v8 had 310/302 but at lower RPM's. I don't think they use different cams for each one, but i may be wrong. I think it is mostly computer tuning of not just fuel/timing but the throttle by wire setting and cam control.


_Modified by TheGermanExperience at 12:09 AM 5-9-2007_


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## TheGermanExperience (Dec 11, 2002)

*Re: (71DubBugBug)*

...but i also noticed that the they are doing this with the 3.6L FSI VR6 which got me thinking. You can really feel the potential in the motor and the differences between the engine in different cars. The Touareg has 276hp, the Q7/Passat 280, and Porsche Cayenne V6 290hp, and the R36 Passat 300. All tuned for different purposes, and most likely with minimal changes. 
This makes me think that intake/exhaust/chip gets the I-5 to 170hp (177 torque). It is easy to make a sick engine, which VW is capable of for sure, then totally choke it up. You ever see the exhaust manifold on this thing? I have to find the pic...it is a funnel with 5 pipes welded inside lol.


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## TheGermanExperience (Dec 11, 2002)

*Re: (TheGermanExperience)*

sorry for the long posts...I am a closet fan of the 2.5 as I have always loved N/A engines like my old VR6. I just think it is weird a small engine have such upside-down output figures of 150/170 and a 5800rpm redline. It definitely feels choked up and reminds me of riding a street-legal dirtbike and a full-race motocross bike of the same model (like Yamaha WR450F vs. YZ450F 4-strokes). They put a super-restrictive exhaust and intake for emissions, limit the power for the woods with different cams, and even limit the throttle opening.
I think we have a mini-VR6 in the works.


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (TheGermanExperience)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheGermanExperience* »_...but i also noticed that the they are doing this with the 3.6L FSI VR6 which got me thinking. You can really feel the potential in the motor and the differences between the engine in different cars. The Touareg has 276hp, the Q7/Passat 280, and Porsche Cayenne V6 290hp, and the R36 Passat 300. All tuned for different purposes, and most likely with minimal changes. 
This makes me think that intake/exhaust/chip gets the I-5 to 170hp (177 torque). It is easy to make a sick engine, which VW is capable of for sure, then totally choke it up. *You ever see the exhaust manifold on this thing? I have to find the pic...it is a funnel with 5 pipes welded inside lol*.

we will be addressing that soon


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (TheGermanExperience)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheGermanExperience* »_does anyone know if the 2.5L has any type of variable valve timing? 


Variable valve timing on the intake side (checked with the dealer).
... Dealer certainly won't flash your ECU or anything for a model year improvement, I know someone mentioned that and they're definitely right.
If they really are ECU and bolt-on improvements, you could probably get more out of the aftermarket parts (once they're out there) than out of stock pieces, even if they are "improved" stock pieces..
As opposed to buying the new parts from the dealer... how much would you really lose just taking your aftermarket mods off and trading your car in for the new one? Just a thought... The parts would most likely cost more than you would lose on trade-in.


_Modified by ninety9gl at 2:08 PM 5-9-2007_


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## TheGermanExperience (Dec 11, 2002)

*Re: (ninety9gl)*

oh and during a video training course about VW engine technology, which was taped right before the new Jetta came out, they actually showed a cutaway of the 2.5L and it said "inline 5, 2.5L FSI engine" on top. I was like what??? and I had to take the class over and it definitely showed direct injection. This is definitely an unlikely but interesting possibility because VW definitely must have tested this version out...


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (ninety9gl)*

I'm guessing the trade in loss would cost more than the aftermarket upgrades.


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_I'm guessing the trade in loss would cost more than the aftermarket upgrades.

I'm talking about buying the newer parts from the dealer... Sounds like you'd be wanting a new intake, exhaust manifold and ECU if the rumors are correct, and that's not going to be cheap... obviously, that depends on how long you've had the car and how many miles you've put on it. Like I said, that was just a thought.
Aftermarket would be the better choice than trading in or buying the parts from the dealer, plus they would most likely produce better results.


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re:*

funny thing is this newer car is supposed to be a cheaper to build version...from what I've read anyways.....yet it will have a better intake etc.....
I wonder what's going to make it cheaper for VW to build?
no heated mirrors ? things like that? I dunno
I read some where (may be here) that variable valve timing is almost like having a mini supercharger.........it gives a little more air to just the right places when needed


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_funny thing is this newer car is supposed to be a cheaper to build version...from what I've read anyways.....yet it will have a better intake etc.....
I wonder what's going to make it cheaper for VW to build?

Actually... from what I've heard... the biggest problem VW has had with the costs of the Rabbit/GTI is the rear multilink suspension...
There was a rumor they were going to launch the mkVI's earlier than they normal would because of that.
Once again, though, that's all speculation.



_Modified by ninety9gl at 1:32 AM 5-10-2007_


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## radroc (Dec 2, 2006)

*Re:*

Bump for a confirmation.


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## flynavyj (Jan 26, 2007)

it'll be an upgrade of some sort but i don't know if that'll be an improvement upon aftermarket parts as well. The key to that is there has to be some aftermarket parts to choose from eventually. If an header comes out for the engine, a better intake that won't CEL you, along with flash programing of the computer, i think you'll be set with the car for a while, and have noticeable improvements. 
As was stated on a different thread however, if warranty is your concern, volkswagen doesn't care about genuine VW parts on your car if they weren't meant to be there in the first place. Another thought, allow the aftermarket to improve upon the engine components of the 2008 jettas/golfs and you should really see some improvements on the older models as well.


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