# BBM vs Kinetic



## 1990whiteg60 (Mar 26, 2003)

Ok I have done a lot of searching on here and havn't come up with to much in hard facts. I would like to see actual time slips and dyno sheets for each setup. I think this would be a good reference for people looking to just do a bolt on kit without customization. The reasoning for this is that both companies have a great product at similar prices and similar claimed hp numbers.
LETS GET IT ON!








Stage I 160 HP $2550
Stage II 200 HP $3250
Stage III 250 HP $????
























vs 








Stage I 175 HP $2899
Stage II 210 HP $3448
Stage III 250 HP $4647

















BBM Stage III (Very similar setup)
Zorba2.0
1997 Jetta GT
125k miles
Dynojet Portable dyno- Pro-Dyno.net
At time of dyno, OBD2 
Lysholm with 63mm pulley
034efi IC standalone
BBM Stage 3 intercooler
2.25" TT stainless with Borla, cat-deleted,
lightened flywheel 42lb injectors
NGK BKR5e plugs
260/268º TT cam
Lower compression Headgasket
mkIV intake manifold









vs 








Supercharger 135 HP $2499
McNeil
1995.5 Neuspeed S/C'd 2.0 8v
104,XXX miles 
Dyno: Dynojet @ Bristol Dyno - Bristol CT
Neuspeed s/c with stock 2.8 pulley
Neuspeed CAI
4 bar fpr
tt 2.25 cat back
tt260 cam
titanium retainors
dual valve springs
Neuspeed 8mm wires
Denso Iridium IK20








vs








Stage I 175 HP $2175
Stage II 200 HP $2950
vs








Stage I 195WHP $2699
Stage II 200+WHP $3499


_Modified by 1990whiteg60 at 8:54 PM 8-16-2007_


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

If nothing else this is a great reference for the companies at hand.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (1990whiteg60)*

Zorba's dyno was not done with a stage 3 pulley.
Here is a proper stage 3 BBM dyno. 
BTW if anyone can beat a BBM car with a Kinetic or other bolt on turbo kit John will give you $1000.
I believe he ran a 13.5 1/4 with a full interior and sound system. 








I'd post my dyno, but it doesn't really count since my car is 16v. 


_Modified by BMGFifty at 10:47 PM 8-16-2007_


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Zorba's dyno was not done with a stage 3 pulley.
Here is a proper stage 3 BBM dyno. 
BTW if anyone can beat a BBM car with a Kinetic or other bolt on turbo kit John will give you $1000.


Wait, so ABF turbo's don't count?


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (ABF Jeff)*

Sorry Jeff, we're talking 8v stuff here. Take your extra 8 valves and....well you'll figure something out.


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## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (BMGFifty)*



BMGFifty said:


> Zorba's dyno was not done with a stage 3 pulley.
> Here is a proper stage 3 BBM dyno.
> BTW if anyone can beat a BBM car with a Kinetic or other bolt on turbo kit John will give you $1000.
> I believe he ran a 13.5 1/4 with a full interior and sound system.
> ...


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
BTW if anyone can beat a BBM car with a Kinetic or other bolt on turbo kit John will give you $1000. 

If I could figure out how to get the Lysholm in my MK4 I'd do it... why not


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

BUT.... I think it could be beat but longevity of engine life would be severely cut.
What is the best 8v 1/4 mile time anyway????


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

I'm probably wrong but I remember hearing of an 8v aba sirroco (might be corrado) in all-motor race gear running 12s.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*

I should also note that the challenge was equal cars running equal boost on equal rubber. Maybe John will chime in and give the specifics.


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

How could it be an all-motor and have boost??? Or do we mean No Nitrous race???
I have a friend in town running mid 10s in his built 1.8 Honda... ugh, I hate Hondas.
I know I'd need more than the GT28rs I currently plan on using but once all the basic tubing is in place, upgrading for more power is usually a swap and tune away from more power.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_How could it be an all-motor and have boost??? Or do we mean No Nitrous race???
I have a friend in town running mid 10s in his built 1.8 Honda... ugh, I hate Hondas.
I know I'd need more than the GT28rs I currently plan on using but once all the basic tubing is in place, upgrading for more power is usually a swap and tune away from more power.

Swap and tune is really just going to be another turbo build if you go much bigger, although the GT28RS disco potato isn't a bad compressor to start with. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

IMO the Disco Potato the PERFECT turbo for our car... not too much lag but will keep boosting FAR into the power band. Good for 350whp too which is further than I had orignally planned anyway. BUT I think that with 350 whp, a serious weight diet on the MK4 and a good traction setup could produce low 12s to high 11s.
Add Nitrous with WAI or WMI you'd be knocking on 10s door in a heart beat (granted at this point a new crank, pistons and rods are all mandatory! hahaha


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## djpj06 (Jul 12, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

i think for "kits" kinetic and bbm are the way to go. i really like both of them. i went with kinetic for a couple of reasons, but i had no real first hand experience with either while i was trying to choose. from what i read both were very reliable.
the biggest reason that i went kinetic was because i could "make stage2" for the cost of the bbm stage1.








anyway, here is a graph that i made so that i could visually compare the power output of these two kits. i used p-shop to make the grid, then resized the companies dynographs so that the numbers matched the grid. then i traced the lines with the pencil tool. 
the bbm dyno is from the bbm site, the kinetic dyno is from the the kinetic aeg turbo thread (no aba stg2 dyno







)
stage2 dynos








blue=kinetic
red=bbm


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

I read the pistons are speced for 350hp, ~305whp with the 02j


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (djpj06)*

Wierd how the Kinetic drops off there... hmmm... Wish it kept climbing


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*

Sound about right... which again goes to show that the GT28rs MAY very well be the best turbofor the 2.0!


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## djpj06 (Jul 12, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

thats why i went with an at270*cam. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 1990whiteg60 (Mar 26, 2003)

*Re: (djpj06)*

Anyone have any quarter mile times for either setup?


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## Pry (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: (1990whiteg60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1990whiteg60* »_Anyone have any quarter mile times for either setup?



_Quote, originally posted by *BMGfifty* »_Here is a proper stage 3 BBM dyno. 
BTW if anyone can beat a BBM car with a Kinetic or other bolt on turbo kit John will give you $1000.
I believe he ran a 13.5 1/4 with a full interior and sound system.


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## VRC-YA (Sep 2, 2001)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (1990whiteg60)*

You can actually get 250whp with the Kinetic Stage 2 with a headgasket and better exhaust from a post I saw from them. Was gonna go VR6 swap till Kinetic came out with thier kit. Build the block up so I can boost higher and get my license plate saying 2.OH****


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

http://www.bahnbrenner.com/about/Autoblitzkrieg/


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## 1990whiteg60 (Mar 26, 2003)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (JBETZ)*

I cant wait to see what times each setup runs. Too bad its the same weekend as H20 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
People keep posting times that they think that others have run I would like to see some actual proof of said times.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (1990whiteg60)*

I ran 14.1 at 14psi on a T3S60 in an otherwise stock 2.0L MKIII...
I quit drag racing because I think it's full of stupid kids and constant import pissing matches... That said, I'd love to see what my little jetta would run as it sits.


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## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

- 28rs would be a lil ruff on a 020 gearbox. Thats why Shawn (@kinetic) went with the turbo supplied with theyre kit. 
The lag helps keep these trannys together. A cam with more lift and the same lobe center will help the engine breath up top. Im turning a Stage-2 (with some extras) to 7k right now and its pull like a freight train. 19psi til 7k and 19 degrees of total timing (running the distributor 2 degrees advanced). The supplied turbo is good for very close to 400whp. food for thought. Cams are cheaper then new turbos.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


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## djpj06 (Jul 12, 2005)

*Re: (1990whiteg60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1990whiteg60* »_Anyone have any quarter mile times for either setup?

kinetic stage 2 @ 10psi @5800ft with bald tires. first time drag racing. car #468


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_

















Only (9) NINE more days!
We are really getting excited for this fall event!
Hope to see you all there http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 1990whiteg60 (Mar 26, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I can't wait to see how this turns out. I hope like hell the supercharged cars win by a lot so all the turbo guys finally shut up.


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## memoryred gti (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re: (1990whiteg60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1990whiteg60* »_I can't wait to see how this turns out. I hope like hell the supercharged cars win by a lot so all the turbo guys finally shut up.









x2


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## Golf 2.0T (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (1990whiteg60)*

turbo will always prevail


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (1990whiteg60)*

<teddy bear voice>
I just hope everyone has the mostest wonderful time.
</teddy bear voice>
BTW I'll be there and running 20psi through my ABA16v....although that is kinda cheating.


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## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I would run my stg2 MK2 at 10PSI but I need the car for me every day driver,not worried about the charger going out, but I still run a pretty basic stock Tranny, Third one


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_I ran 14.1 at 14psi on a T3S60 in an otherwise stock 2.0L MKIII...
I quit drag racing because I think it's full of stupid kids and constant import pissing matches... That said, I'd love to see what my little jetta would run as it sits.

I guess you know why I never started.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_
I guess you know why I never started.























Very true, man.... I don't see the point in it... it's the lowest form of motorsports. I really think that even nascar is above it in technicality.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

So the results are in. John Betz(JBETZ) and Ryan Johnson(sniper512) took it to the track today. Both cars are extremely fast. 
Ryan, with his Kinetic stage 3 was limited by traction problems early on when he was running street tires and couldn't quite break into the 13's.
Once John was elminated from bracket racing due to a broken shifter linkage he loaned his drag radials to Ryan in an attempt to level the playing field a bit. 
By the time the day was done, John ran a 13.3et with a 104mph trap and Ryan managed a 13.86et trapping at around 101mph. These cars are both in nearly full street trim and are impressive for the old 2.slow. 
With a properly geared transmission and a little practice, I think Ryan could shave a few tenths off his time. 
I'll post pictures later.


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: (1990whiteg60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1990whiteg60* »_Anyone have any quarter mile times for either setup?

14.855 at about 5300ft in elevation. 11 lbs and street tires.


_Modified by vdubbugman53 at 10:55 PM 9-29-2007_


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: (Jonvwluver78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jonvwluver78* »_I would run my stg2 MK2 at 10PSI but I need the car for me every day driver,not worried about the charger going out, but I still run a pretty basic stock Tranny, Third one









i run 11lbs everyday on a bone stock trans


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## THEERY2.1 (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
Very true, man.... I don't see the point in it... it's the lowest form of motorsports. I really think that even nascar is above it in technicality.









Sorry bro but that statement is PURE ignorance http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (THEERY2.1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *THEERY2.1* »_
Sorry bro but that statement is PURE ignorance http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

yea nascar is byfar the lowest...just below lawnmower racing


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## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

13.3/104mph and 13.8/101mph .....? 
WTF? Bring that charged car to the right coast and Ill take that $1000 off your hands. Everyone has traction problems learn to drive that thing. 
Our slowest has been [email protected] on a 2.50 60ft. Now the car goes 1.9s all day long. Yeah this is on a stock 020 trans with a pelequin diff. No gear work. 309whp @ 19psi.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_13.3/104mph and 13.8/101mph .....? 
WTF? Bring that charged car to the right coast and Ill take that $1000 off your hands. Everyone has traction problems learn to drive that thing. 
Our slowest has been [email protected] on a 2.50 60ft. Now the car goes 1.9s all day long. Yeah this is on a stock 020 trans with a pelequin diff. No gear work. 309whp @ 19psi.

I'm pretty sure I could squeeze this car into the high 12's
Are you running the factory M5.9 management system?
These cars were full street trim with stock 2.0L engines just running the forced induction kits. Both cars ran about 20 psi
I'm extremely pleased with the et's on both cars. 
Low 13's and high is very nice for daily driven street cars!


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

Now keep in mind our challenge is to run equal cars, street trim factory management. Not to see who can build the ultimate and custom 1/4 mile car, we can do this challenge at another time








I'll be holding my winning $1000 purse and handing it off to my son when I'm gone... sorry for the smack talk'n


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (vdubbugman53)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubbugman53* »_
yea nascar is byfar the lowest...just below lawnmower racing

lawnmower racing is pretty freaking cool. It's just below semi-truck rallying in my book (which is pretty far up there)


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (pwnt by pat)*

yea watching semis doin the pikes peak hill climb is pretty bad ass


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (vdubbugman53)*

hey, that was my dyno! hehe, yeah it isnt quite stage three. Stage 3 intercooler with stage 2 boost, and standalone. Ah, I can't wait to rebuild my motor.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (Zorba2.0)*

Autoblitzkreig pictures here: http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=784


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## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
I'm pretty sure I could squeeze this car into the high 12's
Are you running the factory M5.9 management system?
These cars were full street trim with stock 2.0L engines just running the forced induction kits. Both cars ran about 20 psi
I'm extremely pleased with the et's on both cars. 
Low 13's and high is very nice for daily driven street cars!









Still running m5.9 ecu on c2 tune. Street trim... everything but A/C. has Cat conv and fully NJ emissions compliant. Kinetics Stage-2 with a SRI, change some boost tubing, I went with piston over a headspacer. Head gaskets are like fuses why on earth would you run three of them?







like a said 19psi=309whp low 13s are cool if you like getting beat by just about everything on the street that you`d brag about beating. M3s, Mustangs, Vettes, Any motor swapped honda with a good driver. Running low 13s all day is like riding a moped after awhile... it`ll put a smile on your face but I wouldnt ride it out to the pit and call out a real bike.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*

Here is my car racing Ty's 308 whp... oh 700 lb lighter Rabbit.
Very close, he edged me at the last 200 feet.
Both of us had clean runs on slicks, best race we have had in a long time.
I had him at the 1/8 mile by a car length, side by side at the 1/2 track and 3/4 track.
It was sooooo fun


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Here is my car racing Ty's 308 whp... oh 700 lb lighter Rabbit.
Very close, he edged me at the last 200 feet.
Both of us had clean runs on slicks, best race we have had in a long time.
I had him at the 1/8 mile by a car length, side by side at the 1/2 track and 3/4 track.
It was sooooo fun










isnt half track the 1/8th mile lol


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (vdubbugman53)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubbugman53* »_
isnt half track the 1/8th mile lol

Ah yep your right


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

lol just makin sure...i wanna see a vid however


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## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Here is my car racing Ty's 308 whp... oh 700 lb lighter Rabbit.
Very close, he edged me at the last 200 feet.
Both of us had clean runs on slicks, best race we have had in a long time.
I had him at the 1/8 mile by a car length, side by side at the 1/2 track and 3/4 track.
It was sooooo fun


































Sounds to me like the turbo car drove around you at the top end.... Classic. Just make sure you get that thing out here next year for Waterfest. Id be willing to one up that and meet you at something in the Mid-west as long as youd be willing to drive your car to the event. Im not a fan of the trailer queen.


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## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

Make the drive out there.... swap tires.... run mid 12s on the same tune I drove there with and drive home with a fatter pocket. Sounds like the Average day in Jersey to me. Streets or Strip We`ll take your cake.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_Make the drive out there.... swap tires.... run mid 12s on the same tune I drove there with and drive home with a fatter pocket. Sounds like the Average day in Jersey to me. Streets or Strip We`ll take your cake.

So have you actually ran mid 12's on a full street trim stock engine 8V 2.0L and your turbo...lots of talk


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_13.3/104mph and 13.8/101mph .....? 
Our slowest has been [email protected] on a 2.50 60ft. Now the car goes 1.9s all day long. Yeah this is on a stock 020 trans with a pelequin diff. No gear work. 309whp @ 19psi.

You have a dyno plot? And when is an 020 stock for a 2.0? And how are you getting 300+ whp out of kinetic's stage 2 kit?


_Modified by Zorba2.0 at 12:48 PM 10-2-2007_


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_Make the drive out there.... swap tires.... run mid 12s on the same tune I drove there with and drive home with a fatter pocket. Sounds like the Average day in Jersey to me. Streets or Strip We`ll take your cake.

Do you have any videos of this?


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Sounds like an average day in Jersey? What does stinky sound like?


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

If Sean from Kinetic wants to meet up again before the winter hits I'm there.
Next time it's money on the table from both parties.
I'll be readying it up for the 12 sec full street trim mark.
Cheers


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## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_
You have a dyno plot? And when is an 020 stock for a 2.0? And how are you getting 300+ whp out of kinetic's stage 2 kit?

_Modified by Zorba2.0 at 12:48 PM 10-2-2007_

I was having problems with plugs and the walbro not keeping up after gettin hot. Problems sorted. wouldnt hold over 19psi on the dyno. After that we were holding 21psi all day. Motor is coming out and going into another "motorholder" cause the Jetta shell is now Quattro. We went quattro cause the stock 020 gear box (which comes in all mk3 2L cars incase you missed that.)











_Modified by SELFMADE at 12:48 PM 10-4-2007_


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## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
So have you actually ran mid 12's on a full street trim stock engine 8V 2.0L and your turbo...lots of talk









Not stock 8v It has pistons and hardware. Before the pistons I did 249whp/280lbft @17psi on a bone stock obd-2 motor. 
Zorba stage3+++ and 034 making 193whp and your happy? You did a screwed.


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## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

Old dyno... funny how the stock valvetrain/cam were worthless.


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## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

Set-up @ 309whp...








Now it sits this way... The 020 wasnt gonna hold much more power. P.S. Im shooting for 400awhp on obd-2/c2 chip and wmi. Go ahead and tell me I cant.


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*

Ok, my turn.....Yea, I've been gone blah blah blah. Is that you chubbs startin all that jazz? hehehehe
Selfmade's car is definitely a 12 second car. I will be up at waterfest next year to race it out with him. I think the setup is rockin. However, you're not gettin 400whp out of an obdII motor.....especially stock rods and valvetrain (which obviously you've got at least a cam at present). If those 2 are swapped, it'd be good to see. I haven't seen a 400+whp 2.0 since the infamous purple pill shindig.
It comes down to the same old crap, s/c's hold it down with the down low power, turbo's are good up top. 
I've got my lawnmower/nascar racing flame suit on for those who wish.








edit: Didn't see the WMI in there....I'll be runnin that as well next year.
p.s. My last dyno was with a ground down water pump (coolant was almost 230*) and sported 261whp/298tq 


_Modified by PBWB at 2:01 PM 10-4-2007_


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_
Not stock 8v It has pistons and hardware. Before the pistons I did 249whp/280lbft @17psi on a bone stock obd-2 motor. 
Zorba stage3+++ and 034 making 193whp and your happy? You did a screwed.

That's the crazy thing about the screw compressors. You make less whp than the turbo and way more performance. My car was running right along with and beating 300+ whp cars that were much lighter. How much power was I really making last Sat...
So if your car is faster with less whp and will beat turbo cars at the track your screwed! And now you compare your full custom built engine set up against stock engine set ups running bolt on kits...


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*

Does this mean we can bust out the fully built 400+ whp screw blown 2.0L


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
That's the crazy thing about the screw compressors. You make less whp than the turbo and way more performance. My car was running right along with and beating 300+ whp cars that were much lighter. How much power was I really making last Sat...
So if your car is faster with less whp and will beat turbo cars at the track your screwed! And now you compare your full custom built engine set up against stock engine set ups running bolt on kits...









so what's custom about his motor again? he said he had pistons and an SRI....


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Does this mean we can bust out the fully built 400+ whp screw blown 2.0L









please. I want to see it.


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## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
That's the crazy thing about the screw compressors. You make less whp than the turbo and way more performance. My car was running right along with and beating 300+ whp cars that were much lighter. How much power was I really making last Sat...
So if your car is faster with less whp and will beat turbo cars at the track your screwed! And now you compare your full custom built engine set up against stock engine set ups running bolt on kits...









-WHP and Perfomance... the differance is? 
-Guess the driver of that 300+whp lgihter car needs somemore seat time. Jersey is home to the first 10-second rabbit which made 350ish whp. 
-Full customer built motor. How bout some drop-in pistons, I didnt even hone the block that had 125k miles on it. Who in there right mind would spend money on stock head bolts when studs are under $100? Think about it. 
-Other then a short runner and a modded boost tube. Its a Stage-2 Kinetic Kit with Current C2 software. 
- Dont get salty Im just specking the truth.


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*

Yeah I'm happy. Because I don't have a shop, and was able to make a few more ponies then the claimed hp. On 10 psi, making more than double the wheel horsepower, I'm happy. Now if I could've dyno'd while running 14, you'd see more. 
Just like your dyno sheet I had problems. I put standalone on my car, tuned it on the street for one day, and drove it 900 miles to Georgia. I drove that thing everyday for 4 months with no problems. The reason my torque curve isnt the same as what John's kit dyno for is because of my tuning. I need to buy some dyno time to figure out what will give me a higher torque curve.
Sorry about the tranny thing. I don't know why I read it as 02A. Are you just running a chip for fueling? 


_Modified by Zorba2.0 at 3:28 PM 10-4-2007_


----------



## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_Yeah I'm happy. Because I don't have a shop, and was able to make a few more ponies then the claimed hp. On 10 psi, making more than double the wheel horsepower, I'm happy. Now if I could've dyno'd while running 14, you'd see more. 
Just like your dyno sheet I had problems. I put standalone on my car, tuned it on the street for one day, and drove it 900 miles to Georgia. I drove that thing everyday for 4 months with no problems. The reason my torque curve isnt the same as what John's kit dyno for is because of my tuning. I need to buy some dyno time to figure out what will give me a higher torque curve.
Sorry about the tranny thing. I don't know why I read it as 02A. Are you just running a chip for fueling? 

_Modified by Zorba2.0 at 3:28 PM 10-4-2007_

maybe you should call C2
PROOF c2 is FTMFW
i 2 am runnin 10-11 PSI and my numbers out do yours pretty significantly...i actually thing my uncorrected numbers might be higher


_Modified by vdubbugman53 at 1:58 PM 10-4-2007_


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (vdubbugman53)*

Yeah, Jeff knows his stuff. When BBM had bad chips a lot of folks went to see him. I'm not going to swap standalone for a chip, but I'll ask what kind of maps I should have for 42# injectors. I like being able to go NA or FI with a few clicks, two hose clamps and 4 bolts.


----------



## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_Yeah, Jeff knows his stuff. When BBM had bad chips a lot of folks went to see him. I'm not going to swap standalone for a chip, but I'll ask what kind of maps I should have for 42# injectors. I like being able to go NA or FI with a few clicks, two hose clamps and 4 bolts.


.....I like being able to go NA or FI with a few clicks, two hose clamps and 4 bolts.....
Yeah so when your charger locks up you can still drive your car during the 2-3 weeks it takes to get your charger back. Been there. 
Specking of BBM chips. A friend just got a sweet program, called the "blank chip" file. nothing like swaping your MAF and Injectors just to find your throttle body wont adapt nor will your car start.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*

I love it when people try to play off things that can happen in this race performance industry. We have plenty of extremely happy customers out there. Parts can brake and chips can become corrupted through shipping or handling. So what your point now. My point all along has been if you take a 2.0L engine bone stock in good running condition and slap it in a car run a turbo kit to it's max and then our screw compressor in the same car. The SC will beat it every time and I still have my $1000 bucks. So go sit on your bar stool and brag to your buddies about your corrected dyno #'s










_Modified by JBETZ at 4:16 PM 10-4-2007_


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_I love it when people try to play off things that can happen in this race performance industry. We have plenty of extremely happy customers out there. Parts can brake and chips can become corrupted through shipping or handling.

True.

_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_My point all along has been if you take a 2.0L engine bone stock in good running condition and slap it in a car *run a turbo kit to it's max* and then our screw compressor in the same car. The SC will beat it every time and I still have my $1000 bucks.

Might just be me, but I guess I'd have to be there to believe it. That's the nice thing about boost controllers...one click and I go from 9psi to 19.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_
True.

Might just be me, but I guess I'd have to be there to believe it. That's the nice thing about boost controllers...one click and I go from 9psi to 19.









I've had this same deal out on the G60 platform for may years now. We won the 1.8T challenge a few years back and plan to win more events in the future running blower power. You guys will definitely see more screw compressor power and evolution coming out of BBM here in the near future.



_Modified by JBETZ at 6:28 PM 10-4-2007_


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

The really sad part it you guys are arguing over this stuff on the internet... and know full well my big turbo ABF will smoke both of you ten times over... so that when I grenade another tranny at 1/2 track, I can coast to an easy win with enough scratch from john's pocket to buy a new one.


----------



## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

true story


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_The really sad part it you guys are arguing over this stuff on the internet... and know full well my big turbo ABF will smoke both of you ten times over... so that when I grenade another tranny at 1/2 track, I can coast to an easy win with enough scratch from john's pocket to buy a new one.









What's it running and why are you blowing the tranny?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

2.21L bottom end, Arrow rods, JE pistons, built head (the standard choice items with mechanical lifter conversion), custom short runner, Megasquirt, GT3071R turbo, Tial 44mm wastegate with dump, 4"dp open... It moves, and you can tell from the 3rd gear shaped dent in the underside of the hood. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Nice way to dance around the questions. 
2.21L eh?
83.5 x 100mm - 2190cc
84 x 100mm - 2217cc
84.5 x 100mm - 2243cc
85 x 100mm - 2270cc
Curious to see which one of those bore/stroke combos are you boosting?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

It's the eurospec 100mm stroker crank at 83.5MM... guess I did my math wrong.


----------



## THEERY2.1 (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

2190 is considered a 2.2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (THEERY2.1)*

cylinder head volume count? When I do the math I get 2189.3. If it does, it would take 5 cm^3 per cylinder (20 total) to get 2.21


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_We won the 1.8T challenge a few years back and plan to win more events in the future running blower power.

The competition was unprepared....
care for a rematch!?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_cylinder head volume count? When I do the math I get 2189.3. If it does, it would take 5 cm^3 per cylinder (20 total) to get 2.21


thanks, I knew I got 2.21, just looked at the word doc I made up with all my cleanances and I did use the CC volume in the displacement calc. Not sure why, though... I think I just carried over the CC'd volume from the formula for CR.
Either way, I've barely broken in the damn engine. stock G60 trans went in a big way, and then turbo has issues as well. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

I never really use the CC volume, just a generic bore/stroke calculator.
Just curious, enough on that...
Now get back to the East Coast, West Cost, Screw vs. Snail piss'n match.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_The really sad part it you guys are arguing over this stuff on the internet... and know full well my big turbo ABF will smoke both of you ten times over... so that when I grenade another tranny at 1/2 track, I can coast to an easy win with enough scratch from john's pocket to buy a new one.









I'm not arguing here at all.
Racing has classes and rules to keep it real.
I must have repeated myself ten times... I'm not talking about who can build the biggest turbo or supercharged custom race set up here.
I'm talking about bolt on 8V kits competing on an equal chassis.
So can I run a Saleen twin turbo S7 in Nascar....ah no.
There both running V8's
So why do you guys keep going off track here.
Yes, you think you can hang a huge hair dryer on a VW 8V and beat our screw compressors. Guess what, we were 6 tenths faster with a 5 mph higher trap last weekend against a Kinetic set up equal cars same tires, stock engines. Equal cars running equal boost.
If you want to write up some new rules for a new class...do it and I will consider racing in your newly developed class.
Cheers


----------



## crazyzdux (Apr 19, 2006)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (1990whiteg60)*

so when is bbm gunna come out with the kit for the MKIV? i am waiting


----------



## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (crazyzdux)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazyzdux* »_so when is bbm gunna come out with the kit for the MKIV? i am waiting

Never...it apparently is impossible


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (crazyzdux)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazyzdux* »_so when is bbm gunna come out with the kit for the MKIV? i am waiting

I was waiting for that! lmao


----------



## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
......Now get back to the East Coast, West Cost, Screw vs. Snail piss'n match.
















EAST SIDE SNAILS RUN SH*T! FTW!!!!


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (vdubbugman53)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubbugman53* »_
Never...it apparently is impossible
impossible...doubt it...too lazy...most likely


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (crazyzdux)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazyzdux* »_so when is bbm gunna come out with the kit for the MKIV? i am waiting

We looked very closely at doing the MkIV
To do it right we would need to develop and cast an intake manifold.
We feel that this market is a gamble to invest in.
We are currently developing products in more lucrative markets.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
Yes, you think you can hang a huge hair dryer on a VW 8V and beat our screw compressors. Guess what, we were 6 tenths faster with a 5 mph higher trap last weekend against a Kinetic set up equal cars same tires, stock engines. Equal cars running equal boost.
If you want to write up some new rules for a new class...do it and I will consider racing in your newly developed class.
Cheers










Oh come on. Ok, I'm gonna hand JUST this one part to you. Equal boost. It doesn't matter what turbo you run, the 8v doesn't come alive until you get in the mid teens with boost anyway. 
How about you throw the smallest pulley you got and THEN boost match that with the turbo car. I put money the results will be very different.
Its just the fact that you guys were running this MEASLY *ss boost is the only reason why the charger won by such a stint.



_Modified by PBWB at 12:58 PM 10-5-2007_


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (PBWB)*

I never considered 18-20psi Measly. Both cars that day were running identical boost (~19psi) and the exact same tires. I don't know how much closer you can get.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Got timeslips?


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_
Oh come on. Ok, I'm gonna hand JUST this one part to you. Equal boost. It doesn't matter what turbo you run, the 8v doesn't come alive until you get in the mid teens with boost anyway. 
How about you throw the smallest pulley you got and THEN boost match that with the turbo car. I put money the results will be very different.
Its just the fact that you guys were running this MEASLY *ss boost is the only reason why the charger won by such a stint.
_Modified by PBWB at 12:58 PM 10-5-2007_
i'm gonna need you to get your fact straight first before posting again...they were both running 19psi....how much are you running


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_Got timeslips?

I got pictures.
BBM on the left racing a 300+ whp 16v turbo rabbit:








Ryan on the right (kinetic turbo) He ran a 10'th faster, but I didn't get a picture: Thats 13.96 in case the pic is too blury










_Modified by BMGFifty at 10:08 AM 10-5-2007_


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_q_jet* »_i'm gonna need you to get your fact straight first before posting again...they were both running 19psi....how much are you running









Oh shutup Q. I can't find where it said exactly what boost they were running. It only stated they were matched. Yes, that's my fault for thinking it was at no more than 15psi. And no, I'm not running what you think I'm running anymore.

_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
I got pictures.

Ok gotcha. Not making excuses but I'd still like some timeslips for there could be some iffy driving about.
What tires were each running specifically? Clutches?
edit: I think that rabbit could definitely use some launch work. The BBM car held it down.....good numbers out of it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif But if that's a mere bolt on kit with no WMI or any other sidework and pullin those times, I would have never went turbo.



_Modified by PBWB at 1:55 PM 10-5-2007_


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

psssh DUCKSAUCE APPLE!


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (PBWB)*

I'll have to see if they want to post the slips, I don't have them. 
As far as tires go, they were literally the same set. John loaned them to Ryan after his shift linkage broke. 
Maybe one of them could chime in about the exact model of tire and clutches.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

ok. I thought I understood about the tires but wanted to be sure.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (PBWB)*

The actual boost # that was ran was not part of the equation.
I ran 3 tenths faster than the turbo car at only 15 psi when he was running nearly 20
You can run 30psi if you want to, psi does not directly equal power or performance.
Why all the talk, hey we ran the kits... wana go again and again and again.....the results will be the same.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

Here is the deal, bigger is not always better. In fact bigger can hurt performance, especially if it is not matched in harmony with the rest of the set up. A smaller turbo maybe ball bearing would have done better on this 8V platform and would cost more money. Using a bigger higher hp turbo than what the engine can actually produce can really hamper performance. The reason this little compressor does so well is that it is perfectly matched







to the torque, size and flow of the 8V engines. The problems that we have now with our high hp race cars is that the crappy VW transmissions will not hold up. Sure we could drop more cash at the problem. When the time is right we will. I'm really hoping to one day have a single digit screw blown four cylinder car.
Goals for the future... maybe we will maybe we wont.
Thanks again for joining in on this.


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_13.3/104mph and 13.8/101mph .....? 

here's what i get outta those times....had the turbo car maybe had some more launch practice...if he scratched off a 13.4 i'm sure his trap would be good for about 110 where as the s/c car cant muster that becuz its not meant for topend(jus like they advertise "power below the curve")...either way good runs!


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*

I agree that the turbo car could have done better, but I don't think the trap speed would have increased much more. He was running a 14.3 and still getting the same trap speed.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_q_jet* »_here's what i get outta those times....had the turbo car maybe had some more launch practice...if he scratched off a 13.4 i'm sure his trap would be good for about 110 where as the s/c car cant muster that becuz its not meant for topend(jus like they advertise "power below the curve")...either way good runs!

The trap speed usually goes down with a better launch... yea I know it's strange. Cars with traction problems usually sling shot and have a high trap. My 2600lb 400+whp road race Corrado trapped at nearly 130mph at 11.5 One long burn out


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_psi does not directly equal power or performance.
Why all the talk, hey we ran the kits... wana go again and again and again.....the results will be the same.



I beg to differ there. And bring it to the right coast as selfmade said....I'd have to be stupid not to see the norm happen yet again.

_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_The reason this little compressor does so well is that it is perfectly matched







to the torque, size and flow of the 8V engines.

You mean for a stock 8v don't ya?


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*

did I hear east side snails


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_
I beg to differ there. And bring it to the right coast as selfmade said....I'd have to be stupid not to see the norm happen yet again.

You mean for a stock 8v don't ya?

You beg to differ
Air pressure does not directly equate to power or performance. 
You can have high pressure with a very low density of oxygen or air.
I'm sure the laws of physics will change by going to the East coast.


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_I'm sure the laws of physics will change by going to the East coast.









sometimes, i wouldn't be surprised.


----------



## smokeymountaindub (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

Okay...I looked on mapquest and it seems that Lincoln, Nebraska, is about the halfway point between Bend and Jersey.
Now we just need to find a track.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (smokeymountaindub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokeymountaindub* »_Okay...I looked on mapquest and it seems that Lincoln, Nebraska, is about the halfway point between Bend and Jersey.
Now we just need to find a track.
.
lincoln... hmm... that's still a hell of a drive for me. I wonder if I can tow the Jetta with the 16VT Rabbit...
Either way, air pressure has a lot to do with performance... however, the key factor to air pressure is the CFM. And, a big snail will move more air than a screw charger at similar boost. You know the ATP kit is available with almost any snail you want... I'm thinking GT2871R on 22 psi with C2 fueling against a BBM stage 3 on 19psi. Wonder who would win. Even if you blew up the car, it should last 1 pass


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

this can be argued till the cows come home but I have to give respect to the 2 companies for going head to head and also for bbm putting the $ where his mouth is.
sometimes people are all to quick to forget what it was like to force feed a vw back in the day







and what the market used to be like for the parts we had to choose from








I personaly have dealt with bbm for parts and tech advice and can say they are a top notch company imo willing to back what they sell.......I havent dealt with kenetic but after seeing this I wouldnt expect anyless from them either http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_.
lincoln... hmm... that's still a hell of a drive for me. I wonder if I can tow the Jetta with the 16VT Rabbit...
Either way, air pressure has a lot to do with performance... however, the key factor to air pressure is the CFM. And, a big snail will move more air than a screw charger at similar boost. You know the ATP kit is available with almost any snail you want... I'm thinking GT2871R on 22 psi with C2 fueling against a BBM stage 3 on 19psi. Wonder who would win. Even if you blew up the car, it should last 1 pass









I'd run you with this set up.
You can blow you car up, I'll beat you and drive mine home








This is all in fun now guys...all in fun


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)




----------



## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

I`d make the drive out to Lincoln,NE just to hand out some ol` fashion beat downs. Ive spanked all the local "Screwed" guys/girls. 
Bring it, Dont sing it. Im ready when you are. We`ll be at Sema if you wanna come down there and go some rounds in Vegas. Shouldn`t take more then 2 or 3 to send you home broke.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_I`d make the drive out to Lincoln,NE just to hand out some ol` fashion beat downs. Ive spanked all the local "Screwed" guys/girls. 
Bring it, Dont sing it. Im ready when you are. We`ll be at Sema if you wanna come down there and go some rounds in Vegas. Shouldn`t take more then 2 or 3 to send you home broke. 

Wait, chubb, you're driving?!


----------



## djpj06 (Jul 12, 2005)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

i want to play









_Quote, originally posted by *sniper512 from kinetic stg 2 thread* »_My best time on street tires was 14 flat. And on slicks a 13.8 @ 102. I'll post my slips later. My gearing is horrible for dragging keep this in mind. The other piss off was that I could not get the car into 3rd without letting the rpms fall way down losing at least a few tenths so the out come could have been much better. I think with a better trans and some more practice a low 13 is totally possible I was running 18psi and could have put it up too 20-22 at the track so who knows what I would have run. John Betz from BBM ran a 13.3 @ 104 and was running 20psi and slicks. He also has a cam and a better geared tranny so I thought I did fairly good 

and

_Quote, originally posted by *sniper512 from kinetic stg 2 thread* »_Ya for sure John's car and my car were not even close to compare. Like I said he had more boost and a LSD and cam and better gearing.


bbm won, but i think the kits are very equal ALL things considered. except maybe co$t.









_Modified by djpj06 at 7:29 PM 10-5-2007_


_Modified by djpj06 at 8:07 PM 10-5-2007_


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (djpj06)*

Ryan did a great job all things considered. He was willing to do everything he could to make his car as fast as possible. I really enjoyed watching the two cars race. If anything I was impressed by the 2.0l more than any kit in particular. We are talking about the 2.slow beating the piss out of some Hondas and after all isn't that the important bit.


----------



## fishecuss (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: BBM vs Kinetic (vdubbugman53)*

with BBM you should never say its impossible


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_I`d make the drive out to Lincoln,NE just to hand out some ol` fashion beat downs. Ive spanked all the local "Screwed" guys/girls. 
Bring it, Dont sing it. Im ready when you are. We`ll be at Sema if you wanna come down there and go some rounds in Vegas. Shouldn`t take more then 2 or 3 to send you home broke. 

Your telling me to bring and not sing it.
I did the call out and have already brought it
$1k down for the purse.
You should join the opra








I'm going to SEMA, planned on flying but I would drive there with the car if we can get a track slot.
Lets go, lets do it again http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 




_Modified by JBETZ at 9:17 AM 10-6-2007_


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

Just because the boost is higher doesnt mean its more volume, that like saying someone running 20 psi out of a K04 will make more power than someone running 15 psi out of a GT28rs.
The chargers on these kits are very small compared to what is out there. But just like a turbo, there is a problem with too big.


----------



## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
Your telling me to bring and not sing it.
I did the call out and have already brought it
$1k down for the purse.
You should join the opra








I'm going to SEMA, planned on flying but I would drive there with the car if we can get a track slot.
Lets go, lets do it again http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

We we`re also planning on flying. Ill check the local tracks street nights and try to get out of work a few extra days. Its a two day drive for me. You`d be willing to drive your car, not trailer it right? I mean these are street cars. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*

How about you start selling your own kits if you think your car is sooo badass.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_How about you start selling your own kits if you think your car is sooo badass.

I sell kits... but not a cookie cutter kinda kit. My old 8V was impressive to say the least, but it all boils down to what you like. If you like the torque and midrange grunt around town, I'd go with the lysholm. I like top end a lot, I rev the piss out of my cars, so I perfer a turbo.
The problem is that BBM's kit is already a fairly high volume charger, although it's a small unit, it's a positive displacement charger, so you can run it to the moon and it will keep giving you power. It's a hard combo to compete with on the track unless you run a larger turbo. The available kits, including the kinetic kit, use a fairly mild turbo. One that came with something a little better matched and ball bearing would have a better chance. 
The odds for the 1000 dollar challenge are stacked against any turbo kit available. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## smokeymountaindub (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
The odds for the 1000 dollar challenge are stacked against any turbo kit available. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

As close as the race was the way the cars sit now, don't you think the turboed car might have beat him running equal boost, with a LSD, and a cam???


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (smokeymountaindub)*

with an LSD maybe... but, the race you're talking about it's the one for the 1000 dollar prize... not equal cars.


----------



## smokeymountaindub (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Maybe I'm misreading your post.....but I thought the original bet was for a race with equal cars.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (smokeymountaindub)*

Well I say eff' it and run twin induction, Lysholm down low to spool up a fat GT40








I usually drive in the 2k-4k range and dont like revving the piss out of my car to make even more power. That's why I chose the lysholm. If I wanted a highway pull killer, I would've bought turbo. And, I dont want to have to use no-lift shifts on the track to keep my boost.
Grats to everyone who takes the effort to build a forced induction car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

you bring it to licolin ill be there that is only like a 6hr drive


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (vdubbugman53)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubbugman53* »_you bring it to licolin ill be there that is only like a 6hr drive


Just make the trip to las vegas for SEMA, Nick... I'll be there, you might get a chance to drive the bunny...


----------



## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

when is it....how can i get a ticket in to SEMA?
it is only like 8hrs so that wouldnt be bad eather.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
You beg to differ
Air pressure does not directly equate to power or performance. 
You can have high pressure with a very low density of oxygen or air.
I'm sure the laws of physics will change by going to the East coast.










You can preach laws of physics all you want. That's like saying an ASE mechanic is more trustworthy than someone whose been into dubs for 20 years and built 6 cars that went sub 12's.

_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_Just because the boost is higher doesnt mean its more volume, that like saying someone running 20 psi out of a K04 will make more power than someone running 15 psi out of a GT28rs.
The chargers on these kits are very small compared to what is out there. But just like a turbo, there is a problem with too big.

Sure the chargers are small......but what exactly are you comparing it to? It's not like any other reputable company produces them.....
And the turbo relation; as long as your in the efficiency zone you're makin power for sure.

Something is just giving me a weird feeling that JBETZ's car isn't simply a stage III bolted up kit. IMO there's a little more than that in that car. Now if there are others with the stage III kit and that only running low 13's, I'll apologize. Until then I'm bein stubborn.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (PBWB)*

I think John is the only one running a true stage III kit








The rest of us are the ones tweaking it by using 8 more valves, AWIC's, standalone, etc.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (PBWB)*

Johns car is nothing special. All of the parts can be purchased. 
The only thing anyone with stage 3 would need to run as fast as John is a pair of slicks and maybe a pulley. 
I know from experience that my car in full street trim is just as fast, or even a bit faster than his.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Ok, just checking.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_I think John is the only one running a true stage III kit








The rest of us are the ones tweaking it by using 8 more valves, AWIC's, standalone, etc.

We have a bunch of customers running at Stage 3 or more.
My car is running the exact same kit that we sell with a higher boost drag racing pulley on the blower. I'm also running a factory style 4bar fpr and our billet fuel rail.


----------



## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
We have a bunch of customers running at Stage 3 or more.
My car is running the exact same kit that we sell with a higher boost drag racing pulley on the blower. I'm also running a factory style 4bar fpr and our billet fuel rail.


... a DRAG RACING PULLEY?








Do you sell street racing pulleys? how about road race pulleys? 
P.S. era 1997-8.... 300whp Rabbit were making low 11 second passes. Check the archeived HardCore Forums. It wasn`t Jons car being faster, It was either untrue HP numbers or a bad driver in the bunny.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

You girls need to shake the sand out of your twats before pearls plop out.
I want to see a race.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_
... a DRAG RACING PULLEY?








Do you sell street racing pulleys? how about road race pulleys? 


Yeah, you know, something that is only good for drag racing. And I think during that challenge they were.... oh yeah DRAG RACING. 
So do people sell DOT approved slicks and DRAG RACING SLICKS ZOMG I NEVER KNEW THAT WTF LOLLERSKATES


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_You girls need to shake the sand out of your twats before pearls plop out.
I want to see a race.


Pepsi just totally came out of my nose


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_So do people sell DOT approved slicks and DRAG RACING SLICKS ZOMG I NEVER KNEW THAT WTF LOLLERSKATES

a little different concept there. Think before you type.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_

Pepsi just totally came out of my nose









LOL


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

How so? Oh, you must be the kind of person that drives around with drag slicks all the time didnt know there were so many BA's in the VW world.


----------



## cifdig (Jun 4, 2005)

can i get a drag racing pulley


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

Thats exactly my point. You wouldn't drive around with drag slicks because your car would handle like $hit and it would be completely unsafe. A Pulley on the other hand will not have any ill effect on your car for daily driving. It will simply increase the positive boost pressure. Now, this may be beyond what someone would prefer for a daily, but it is by no means unsafe or harmful to run a car like that. The driver of a car with a "drag" pulley still has the ability to control the boost level with the throttle and how they drive. With slicks, you have no control.
p.s. I'm not a BA by any means ... i'm a scrawny tall white kid. But I know what the **** i'm talking about.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (cifdig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cifdig* »_can i get a drag racing pulley

What ever you want to call it over-drive pulley, race pulley....ect.
They are all listed on our web site.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
What ever you want to call it over-drive pulley, race pulley....ect.
They are all listed on our web site.










John, can I run the race pulley on my alternator and make the car fast?


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
What ever you want to call it over-drive pulley, race pulley....ect.
They are all listed on our web site.










Damn, with that overdrive pulley my water/power steering pump is gonna spin at a slower ratio of speed. FAAAAAAAAAAACK!!!

I'm sorry, this is too much.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

I understand what you are trying to say now.
But the charger is always putting out air and building heat, if you have an even smaller pulley it builds even more heat and can potentially over spin the bearings of the charger if you rev too high. Not that any of these kits come standard with such a pulley, but you could fab one up yourself and make 22 psi at 4k
Does anyone know how an SRI and boost tubes gain 100hp? SELFMADE never answered me on how you make 309whp on the Kinetic stage 2 kit? They claim 200 to the wheels.


_Modified by Zorba2.0 at 10:58 PM 10-9-2007_


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_
Does anyone know how an SRI and boost tubes gain 100hp? SELFMADE never answered me on how you make 309whp on the Kinetic stage 2 kit? They claim 200 to the wheels.


I honestly don't care. I dynoed at 650whp yesterday and in the 1860's ran 9's in a rabbit before it was even invented...on fermented yaks milk for fuel.


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

oh for real?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
I honestly don't care. I dynoed at 650whp yesterday and in the 1860's ran 9's in a rabbit before it was even invented...on fermented yaks milk for fuel. 


Andy, come on... you know for a fact that the BBM stage 3 isn't the end of tuning it... you can run the stage 3 setup with larger injectors, a much smaller pulley, water alk injection, and even a 16V head.
You still technically have a BBM stage 3 kit, but you've added some
The kinetic stage 2 claims 200whp at like 15psi, but the turbo they use can make 25psi and around 330hp... so, up the boost, bigger injectors, water alk injection, and 300 is definitely a possibility.
It's not exactly a kinetic stage 2 anymore, but that's still what you started with. Heck, Apple started with the ATP stage 2 IIRC, never seen that make 260whp before. he has a little bit bigger compressor and some other tweaks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Jeff, very nice sig. That made me laugh.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Oh Jeff, I know. I'm just tired of bickering about it. But you really should try fermented yaks milk, it's better than nawz!








Oh and there is much more to come with my car.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Oh Jeff, I know. I'm just tired of bickering about it. But you really should try fermented yaks milk, it's better than nawz!








Oh and there is much more to come with my car.









Still got nothing on my car.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_Jeff, very nice sig. That made me laugh.

Lifted from an IM, along with this one
Salsa GTI: like homer simpson says...
Just 3 little words.."I am gay"
Sorry dave, had to do it.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

One day Jeff....one day.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_One day Jeff....one day. 


You're gonna need a lot bigger charger, bud... on the street or a tight course, I'd have absolutely no chance, it's not even starting to move until 60mph. Somewhere along the line I accidentally removed the friction between the tires and the road. I can't seem to figure out where it went, but I've tried new tires and they just keep going bald.








I seem to have misplaced whatever keeps gears inside the transmission as well


_Modified by ABF Jeff at 10:03 PM 10-9-2007_


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

You will just have to wait and see.








I love bald tires. It makes driving so much more fun. In the rain I might as well be driving on snow.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_You will just have to wait and see.








I love bald tires. It makes driving so much more fun. In the rain I might as well be driving on snow.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*








Indeed.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

You know what people can still say at the end of all this..... "Just get a VR6"


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

But seriously...

Would it be worth it do mod my engine or swap in a 1.8t?


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_But seriously...

Would it be worth it do mod my engine or swap in a 1.8t?
you can spend 5k for 300whp in an 8v or you can spend 2k on a swap plus another 5k for 300whp in a 1.8t....


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*

the t3/t04e sitting in my basement agrees.
My gut instinct to leave both jobs for higher paying ones agrees.
My wallet is crying in pain.
I thought just the swap would run more? around 3-3.5 for engine, harness, and ecu?


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 9:58 AM 10-10-2007_


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*

Ya... Cause high mileage VR swaps are played. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Ya... Cause high mileage VR swaps are played. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

They're still more fun to drive then ABA twinscrews.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
They're still more fun to drive then ABA twinscrews.










Gotta love understeer.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

If I wanted a car that turned, I would have gotten something different.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_If I wanted a car that turned, I would have gotten something different.










At least you're honest. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## cifdig (Jun 4, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

i wasnt tring to be an ass i really would like one


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Ya... Cause high mileage VR swaps are played. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

X2..............








They were slow with my old setup........
Now they are just plain LAME


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_One day Jeff....one day. 

You may get close to 300 whp with a 16v..


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

Changing my cam this weekend........
Just be glad i don't live near any of you BBM people.......
As there will be much sadness in your camp


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_Changing my cam this weekend........
Just be glad i don't live near any of you BBM people.......
As there will be much sadness in your camp









Hey Chuckles...let me know how you like the 270/turbo setup. Shot me a PM.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_Changing my cam this weekend........
Just be glad i don't live near any of you BBM people.......
As there will be much sadness in your camp









We have a camp? Crap! I've been missing all of the meetings and animal sacrifices.


----------



## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
We have a camp? Crap! I've been missing all of the meetings and animal sacrifices.









you probably been exiled by now


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (vdubbugman53)*

Man I'll tell you what guys I love most all forms of forced induction. Why all the smack talk in here? What do you want best 2 out of 3... how about 3 out of 4...


----------



## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_ 
Does anyone know how an SRI and boost tubes gain 100hp? SELFMADE never answered me on how you make 309whp on the Kinetic stage 2 kit? They claim 200 to the wheels.

_Modified by Zorba2.0 at 10:58 PM 10-9-2007_
 
Cam timing 8* retarded, base timing 2* advanced, A off the shelf cam shaft, MSD Digital6+ and Coil (got this mainly for the two-step and timing control for the WMI, which has not been used on the motor yet.) 
I`m gonna install the motor into our new Motor holder (94 Golf Sport w/o sunroof) this weekend. Lets get a national "2L Showdown" setup. We`ll be in the mid 11s by Feb. On this current set-up. Flame on, Ill Show-N-Prove. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_ Does anyone know how an SRI and boost tubes gain 100hp? SELFMADE never answered me on how you make 309whp on the Kinetic stage 2 kit? They claim 200 to the wheels.

_Modified by Zorba2.0 at 10:58 PM 10-9-2007_
dude you gotta understand...that "claimed" 200whp is on low boost with an otherwise stock car...noone said what would happened if you just up the boost...of course a company isnt gonna claim higher becuz they dont want people blowin their stock motors up!


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Man I'll tell you what guys I love most all forms of forced induction. Why all the smack talk in here? What do you want best 2 out of 3... how about 3 out of 4...









hmmmm....
why the change of heart, john?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
You may get close to 300 whp with a 16v..










close to 300 isn't anywhere near 550.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Ok, so the 309 isnt with just the Kinetic stage 2 and lower compression pistons. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
We have a camp? Crap! I've been missing all of the meetings and animal sacrifices.









LOL.
Seriosly turn up the boost....you should be at 300+ on a 16v engine...
Or perhaps your happy where your at...which is fine also...I'm just a boost junkie...what can i say


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Man I'll tell you what guys I love most all forms of forced induction. Why all the smack talk in here? What do you want best 2 out of 3... how about 3 out of 4...









Because like anythig else..Like Ford vs Chevy it's fun to compare and bust balls...just like anything
I'm ready punk....my MK2 weighs in at 2660 with me and laptop mk3 dash functining AC..all factory insulation and then some and 5/8th's tank of gas.....
Who cares what's faster in real life (my car is







) is this not all for fun any way...well not for you it's your buisness but for most of us it's for fun and bragging rights....


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
Hey Chuckles...let me know how you like the 270/turbo setup. Shot me a PM.

will do fruit cake


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
will do fruit cake









pinch his nipple and call him tinkerbell... he likes that.


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Ok terific


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
LOL.
Seriosly turn up the boost....you should be at 300+ on a 16v engine...
Or perhaps your happy where your at...which is fine also...I'm just a boost junkie...what can i say









Once my car isn't my only car, I'll consider turning up the boost. Until then, I like the reliability I have. I'm almost at 1 year without a major break. Sprinkle that on your cornflakes.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

You know what happens to junkies right, they look for better and bigger fixes, and then they switch drugs. I hear there is this stuff called nawhz that gives you a really big rush, but in the wrong hands it can really mess you up.


----------



## smokeymountaindub (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

We've lost direction......
Lincoln, Nebraska. 
West coast vs. East coast.
BBM builds a car, Kinetics builds a car.
Pinks All-Out VW Edition.
Someone get on the phone to Rich Christensen.


----------



## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: (smokeymountaindub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokeymountaindub* »_We've lost direction......
Lincoln, Nebraska. 
West coast vs. East coast.
BBM builds a car, Kinetics builds a car.
Pinks All-Out VW Edition.
Someone get on the phone to Rich Christensen.

i like the way this guy thinks. yea after 300 hp im gunna try that bigger and better drug.....ill prolly get that danger to manifold light though and my passenger floor board will fall out...oh well im gunna do it


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (vdubbugman53)*

and then me and the mad scientist will have to tear apart the engine and replace the piston rings you fry ... stupid granny shifter.


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_You know what happens to junkies right, they look for better and bigger fixes, and then they switch drugs. I hear there is this stuff called nawhz that gives you a really big rush, but in the wrong hands it can really mess you up.









No...there will never ever never be Nawz on anything i own...that goes double for water/meth injection........
But actual drugs I can use...I'm all for it....
No drugs for cars please


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (bugasm99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bugasm99* »_and then me and the mad scientist will have to tear apart the engine and replace the piston rings you fry ... stupid granny shifter.

Hey I'm a Double Clutcher...get it right


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*








VS.


----------



## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

what is wrong with water meth? steroids is the ish that goes for cars as well


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (vdubbugman53)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubbugman53* »_what is wrong with water meth? steroids is the ish that goes for cars as well

Nothing wrong with it..it's just not for me.....at the moment...
and Vin owns the ass clown from STINKS...that show is the lame


----------



## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

i wish that show "Blow it up" was still on


----------



## smokeymountaindub (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
Nothing wrong with it..it's just not for me.....at the moment...
and Vin owns the ass clown from STINKS...that show is the lame









I agree....the dude from Pinks and the soundtrack make that a lame show.
But it would be cool to have an all VW episode.
If the guys from BBM & Kinetics hit them up they could make it happen.
And think of the advertising op. for both of those companies.
A strictly VW all out competition. Racing for the $10,000 instead of pink slips. 
People would be coming out of the woodwork for that.


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (smokeymountaindub)*

true


----------



## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: (smokeymountaindub)*

i would drive 550 miles for that....that is if it was in lincolin NE


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (vdubbugman53)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubbugman53* »_i would drive 550 miles for that....that is if it was in lincolin NE

We had a VW episode of pinks filmed here. the Beetle that hit a wall... He would have won, too.


----------



## Killzone2142 (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Yeah if it werent for that stupid guy racing the honda saying to take off the traction bars.


----------



## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: (Killzone2142)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Killzone2142* »_Yeah if it werent for that stupid guy racing the honda saying to take off the traction bars.









They were wheelie bars and had nothing to do with it... the car broke an Axle. 
Lets do this Pinks thing. Ill call around today and see who I can get onbroad.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_
They were wheelie bars and had nothing to do with it... the car broke an Axle. 
Lets do this Pinks thing. Ill call around today and see who I can get onbroad.

Ooh...Im in. I'll be the flag bitch.
...only I'll have a fat gut instead of a fat ego.


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

I wanna be the guy who has to hop on the motorcycle and drive to the other end of the track for each race.


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

i'll be "track prep" hahahah


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*

Can I be "Burn Box Bob"


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (bugasm99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bugasm99* »_I wanna be the guy who has to hop on the motorcycle and drive to the other end of the track for each race.

Can i be the ass clown host that dumps the drag bike on camera....because of my over inflated ego


----------



## smokeymountaindub (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
Can i be the ass clown host that dumps the drag bike on camera....because of my over inflated ego









That was the funniest sh** EVER!!!!
I literally fell off my couch laughing at that jack-ass.


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: (smokeymountaindub)*

After reading this entire diatribe of ego boosting pissing contest one
thing has become clear to me, the Blowhard from New Jersey is a complete idiot. He thinks that the laws of physics must change
because he thinks so.
I was fortune enough to attend this Blitzkrieg, I talked to both car 
owners and got the low down on the cars... they were as evenly matched as can be with the one expectation the Turbo car was lighter.
The day was cool and both cars were making great whp, I know if the day was hotter and the track had better traction it would have 
benefited the supercharged car more the the turbo car, the numbers would have been further apart. 
Johns car could have picked up another 2 tenths out of the hole and 4 tenth down the track. the same couldn’t be said for the turbo
Application.
The point has been proven that on this application the supercharger 
out performs the turbo in an acceleration contest.
OEM VW Street cars are made to perform from the 900rpm to 
6200rpm range. for the most usable power under the curve the Supercharer is the way to go.
if you are looking for more then re engineering the engine for higher whp in higher rpm ranges is no longer a OEM car.















BTW save your flaming pissing contest. I don't care.










_Modified by REPOMAN at 3:46 PM 10-15-2007_


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## smokeymountaindub (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: (REPOMAN)*

I'm not gonna re-read all these posts, but I thought the turboed car ran without an LSD. And with less boost.
Boost settings aside, no LSD seems like a HUGE disadvantage to me. I accidentally spiked it to 20 psi while test fitting some vac. lines, with no LSD, it almost shot me off into a ditch.(Granted I wasn't expecting it to happen, so I wasn't really holding the wheel completely tightly.)


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (smokeymountaindub)*

The turbo car ran about the same psi. They were for all purposes the same, within a psi or so. Ryan (the turbo car) had the chance to up the boost to what ever he wanted since he was running race gas. 
Does any one know if a torque biasing differential really makes that much of a difference in a straight line? I only really notice it on corners and can still spin only one wheel.


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I think it still can, but only when the car is starting to move. On a turbo car, where boost comes on progressivley after the car is already moving, the use of an LSD isn't as necessary. Just like launching a AWD drive car gives more traction than trying to launch a 2wd car.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

I'm talking lsd vs torque biasing differentials. A true lsd will spin both wheels even when one doesn't have much traction. A torque biasing differential, like a peloquin or quaife will still spin the tire with the least traction, like an open diff.


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (REPOMAN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_BTW save your flaming pissing contest. I don't care.









Thats like saying "i'm gonna beat the $hit out of you" and then following up with "but don't come after me because i don't really want to fight"


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (REPOMAN)*

Soooo, are you guys really going to meet up and run?
I would hate to see all this hot air and bandwidth go to waste!!!

_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_The point has been proven that on this application the supercharger 
out performs the turbo in an acceleration contest.

That is the point?
Man, there are all motor cars that would walk both of those cars, if you are all "really" ranting and raving about a 1/4 mile acceleration contest. Not to send the conversation in another direction, but it the truth. I don't wan't to hear about weight reduction this or that either, one of those cars in the video was a Rabbit for crying out loud. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by billyVR6 at 8:55 PM 10-15-2007_


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I thought quaife's and peloquin's put the power to the wheel with more traction?


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

I thought that until I got stuck in the snow. One tire just sat there and spun, while the tire with good traction didn't move.


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

if you're stuck in snow...no tires have good traction lol...


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*

I can't wait till it snow's here


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_q_jet* »_if you're stuck in snow...no tires have good traction lol...


I'm holding my sides in, that's some funny isht. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Only half stuck, one tire was on pavement, the other was on snow.


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I thought it was cool when I swapped transmissions, one without a lsd and one with, the first one, each tire spun opposite directions in the air, afterward, they spun the same direction! AMAZING, no wonder I was slower then, one tire was always working against the other


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_I thought it was cool when I swapped transmissions, one without a lsd and one with, the first one, each tire spun opposite directions in the air, afterward, they spun the same direction! AMAZING, no wonder I was slower then, one tire was always working against the other









also explaines why the car goes left when you punch it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

My offer still stands. nuff said. 
E.A.D.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*

I have a turbo rabbit you can borrow for the race, rob... It's not 300whp like the other one, but I think it'll still travel down the strip well.


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