# Alignment question



## kjmurphy (Sep 29, 2012)

All - went to Firestone to get new tires mounted and also asked them to perform an alignment. Technician was unable to complete the alignment and stated it would require a cradle shift that should be performed by a dealer. Not exactly sure what that means, but it doesn't sound good. I've attached a copy of the alignment check. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Kevin

<a href="http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/kjmurphy1/media/Alignment_zps3b64d686.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b532/kjmurphy1/Alignment_zps3b64d686.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo Alignment_zps3b64d686.jpg"/></a>


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

Thats pure bull sh-t. There are 3 bolts at the bottom of the strut that you loosen and slide the strut in or out to set camber. The rear has two eccentrics one for camber and one for toe. Your car needs to have the rear toe set even or it dog tracks (thrust angle). The rear camber needs to be set even also. From looking at the read out they did nothing. Thats why 25 years ago i got a toe and camber gauge,slip plates,scales and learned how to do my own set ups inc corner balance. After a dealer totally screwed up a 911 i had . If you have questions PM me and Ill send you my phone.carl


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

Kevin, replied to your PM. carl


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## TTRStud (Jul 18, 2013)

carl44 said:


> Thats pure bull sh-t. There are 3 bolts at the bottom of the strut that you loosen and slide the strut in or out to set camber. The rear has two eccentrics one for camber and one for toe. Your car needs to have the rear toe set even or it dog tracks (thrust angle). The rear camber needs to be set even also. From looking at the read out they did nothing. Thats why 25 years ago i got a toe and camber gauge,slip plates,scales and learned how to do my own set ups inc corner balance. After a dealer totally screwed up a 911 i had . If you have questions PM me and Ill send you my phone.carl


Holy crap that's hardcore…I've never met anyone who does his own alignments from the comfort of his home haha.

I hear ya though, every time the dealer has to touch my car for even the slightest thing, I lose sleep the night before lol


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

TTRStud said:


> Holy crap that's hardcore…I've never met anyone who does his own alignments from the comfort of his home haha.
> 
> I hear ya though, every time the dealer has to touch my car for even the slightest thing, I lose sleep the night before lol


I was doing 20-30 track days with the ExigeS i had . I always was playing around with camber/caster/toe depending on the track. I could corner balance the car to within 2lbs /cross wt. and the ride height to 1mm. They are great cars to set up very straightforward. The Audi the front camber/toe is easy and so is the rear toe. The rear camber is a bitch because the eccentrics are really hard to get at. By the way the TTS i had weighed 3252 my RS is 3332..carl


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

Here are my numbers you can use as a reference---done by Audi Jacksonville, FL.....


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

looks ok but it would handle and rotate better with 0 toe F&R, max out the front neg camber (APROX-1.4) less rear camber about -1 is ideal. For the street alignment they did a good job .carl


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

carl44 said:


> looks ok but it would handle and rotate better with 0 toe F&R, max out the front neg camber (APROX-1.4) less rear camber about -1 is ideal. For the street alignment they did a good job .carl


But mine is eating rear tires....they are lasting about 8,000 miles.....fronts a little more. They are wearing perfectly flat across the tread....so I think it's the toe in the rear that is doing it. I'm going in for another alignment. I've put (counting the tires that came on the car) 4 pairs on the front and 5 on the rear in 35,000 miles.....it's getting expensive!


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

24 minutes of rear toe= .150 of an inch that's a lot of toe for basically a front drive car. Although its the max spec the min spec is 0 . Dial out the rear toe and dial back the camber to-1.the car will push less and rotate better plus the tires will last longer. Mine are almost gone [email protected] 7000 but with 3 track days on the toyos(junk). Carl


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

carl44 said:


> 24 minutes of rear toe= .150 of an inch that's a lot of toe for basically a front drive car. Although its the max spec the min spec is 0 . Dial out the rear toe and dial back the camber to-1.the car will push less and rotate better plus the tires will last longer. Mine are almost gone [email protected] 7000 but with 3 track days on the toyos(junk). Carl


Wouldn't 0 be out of specs? I'm not sure how to read this but it say min .25 to .58?


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

GaBoYnFla said:


> Wouldn't 0 be out of specs? I'm not sure how to read this but it say min .25 to .58?


The spec is .25'+_.10' total rear toe = .15'-35'= .090-.210. But running less rear toe, 0 in this case is an old trick to cut back on under-steer. I played with the settings on the track with both the TTS i had and my RS. It really helps, on the street you wont feel much difference. The benefit on the street is you are not scrubbing the rear tires . Toe with neg camber concentrates all the ware on the inside edge of the tire and cuts tire life.

When I was tracking a GT3 and GT2 I ran a lot of total rear toe, .40' to tame the over-steer .Running 0 rear toe would have been a death wish. These were rear drive rear engine cars with 60+% of the weight over the rear wheels. Just the total opposite of the TT. 
Let me know how it works out. carl


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

Toe chart

http://www.smartracingproducts.com/smartcamber/toe_conversion_table-cw-v3.pdf


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

carl44 said:


> The spec is .25'+_.10' total rear toe = .15'-35'= .090-.210. But running less rear toe, 0 in this case is an old trick to cut back on under-steer. I played with the settings on the track with both the TTS i had and my RS. It really helps, on the street you wont feel much difference. The benefit on the street is you are not scrubbing the rear tires . Toe with neg camber concentrates all the ware on the inside edge of the tire and cuts tire life.
> 
> When I was tracking a GT3 and GT2 I ran a lot of total rear toe, .40' to tame the over-steer .Running 0 rear toe would have been a death wish. These were rear drive rear engine cars with 60+% of the weight over the rear wheels. Just the total opposite of the TT.
> Let me know how it works out. carl


My tires are wearing perfectly flat across the tread....no cutting on inside or out. I do have the Neuspeed larger rear bar but also have their front bar too. Not sure if that will tell you anything or not?


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

GaBoYnFla said:


> My tires are wearing perfectly flat across the tread....no cutting on inside or out. I do have the Neuspeed larger rear bar but also have their front bar too. Not sure if that will tell you anything or not?


All street miles? 
What brand,model, tires?
Pressure F&R? 
Bar Settings?
How much did the H&R springs lower the car? 
thanks carl


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

carl44 said:


> All street miles?
> What brand,model, tires?
> Pressure F&R?
> Bar Settings?
> ...


All street miles.....at speed but not abusive.

Toyo Proxes T1s

35 fr 32 rr

Bar-stiffest

Mag ride on stiff too always.

H&R sport springs about 1.5"

Now I do change tires a bit earlier than most do because I don't like to have to slow down in the rain.....


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

GaBoYnFla said:


> All street miles.....at speed but not abusive.
> 
> Toyo Proxes T1s
> 
> ...


I don't know what the normal life is for the toyo's. like i said mine are almost shot @6500 with 3 track days and a lot of canyons. The insides of both the f&r ware faster form the track.
You can try two things:
-Switch brands I hear the MPSS ware pretty good.
-Go to 0 on the F&R toe the less a tire runs sideways the better the ware and in the case of the TT you also get a better balanced car.
hope it helps carl


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

carl44 said:


> I don't know what the normal life is for the toyo's. like i said mine are almost shot @6500 with 3 track days and a lot of canyons. The insides of both the f&r ware faster form the track.
> You can try two things:
> -Switch brands I hear the MPSS ware pretty good.
> -Go to 0 on the F&R toe the less a tire runs sideways the better the ware and in the case of the TT you also get a better balanced car.
> hope it helps carl


I got 12k out of the Toyos, no track days but quite a few spirited drives and I was down to the cords. I've got about 10k on my S04s, 3 track days, and they have a ton of tread left on them.


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## gengo (May 13, 2013)

Necro bump.

Got an alignment and am liking the new setup. Thanks to Carl44 for his advice in this thread. (Carl sold his TT-RS a while back, don't think he posts here anymore). Here was my setup: 

*2013 TTRS Alignment with stock suspension:*

Front Camber: -1.2 (requested -1.4)
Front Toe: 0 (requested 0)
Rear Camber: -0.8 (requested -1.0)
Rear Toe: almost 0? (requested 0)


Shop said they couldn't get any more camber on Front or Rear.
This was a racing prep shop, not a quicky lube/tire place.

I also recently replaced the OEM tires, which definitely suck as stated by most. Went with Michelin PSS


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## SpikezDesigns (Aug 2, 2016)

I'm running -3 camber on the rear, a bit excessive I know, but lowered slightly and wider wheels I didnt want it rubbing the inner rear fender. There's plenty of adjustment for camber in the rear. Front, not so much. I'm -1.1 or something in the fronts.


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

gengo said:


> Necro bump.
> 
> Got an alignment and am liking the new setup. Thanks to Carl44 for his advice in this thread. (Carl sold his TT-RS a while back, don't think he posts here anymore). Here was my setup:
> 
> ...


You should be able to get -1.5°, or even a bit more, front camber on the 8J TT using the lower ball joint nuts. Maybe the shop does not know about that? Do they work on TT's and VW Golf's often enough?


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## gengo (May 13, 2013)

No, I doubt they do many Audi/VW cars. It was mostly Ferraris and Porsches at the shop. 

I'm ok with my settings for now, but good to know and can get a bit more camber if desired.


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## Fasdude (May 24, 2011)

*very interested in reducing tire wear without hindering performance*

Subscribed as I'm very interested in reducing tire wear without hindering performance. I have a 2010 TTS. I run 18" wheels/tires in the winter and 19" wheels/tires in the summer. Tires here in Canada are much more expensive than in the US. I'm hoping Carl's suggestions will save me some tire wear, but the tire shop where I get my alignments will probably frown on any settings outside of factory specs.

It would be very helpful to the rest of us with TTs, if anyone that applied Carl's alignment suggestions report back with a review of handling and tire wear at their next wheel alignment. :thumbup:


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