# to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6



## andrewL30723 (Feb 27, 2007)

so i found a good deal on a stage 1 VF supercharger kit...ive been asking around for opinions and everyone tells me not to because im just going to want more power out of it and buy a turbo. i just had a new clutch put in and im not looking to replace it again to go turbo. i believe the stock VR6 clutch is strong enough to hold a stage 1 VF kit.........all im looking for is a little more power out of my daily driven VR

*so the question is do you guys think i will be happy with the VF kit or am i just going to crave more power and end up with the turbo i dont want*


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## mk4vrjtta (Feb 3, 2007)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (andrewL30723)*

go turbo...way more aftermarket suppliers..and yes, you will want more power!


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## Flyweight (Jan 15, 2007)

I think that a supercharger would fit your "daily driver with more power" goals well.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2009)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (andrewL30723)*

If your'e already wondering "what if" , then you should go turbo or do nothing at all.


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## CorradoMagic (Apr 11, 2008)

well, the VF V9 stg 1 leaves much to be desired & cant really cope beyond 8#. Add C2 software & your better but its not perfect.
Whats 'a good deal'?
I dont think we can judge what YOUR going to be happy with, but power is addicting. 
FYI- SC's/systems are not as 'reliable/low maintaionence or bullet proof ' as rumor has it.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (CorradoMagic)*

Never, ever ever buy a supercharger kit with a manual belt-tensioning system. Ever. 

Ever?


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## Norwegian-VR6 (Feb 6, 2002)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

I had a Z-Engineering ZR2 kit for 12 months, and loved it. But, as most VR6 supercharger owners I ended up with a Turbo kit.
That has been slightly modified.....


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## BMAN (Jun 9, 1999)

*Re: (Norwegian-VR6)*

I'm selling my kit


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: (BMAN)*

I'm midway installing a supercharger kit on my MK2. And I see no reason to be able to run faster than like a 12 or 13 second quarter mile in a VW that your going to be driving on the street. My opinion, if your going to go turbo it might as well be all out and making like at least 450 to the tires, otherwise keep it NA, or go supercharged.


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## ReDD6790 (Feb 21, 2008)

you drive like a bitch so get a supercharger


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## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_If your'e already wondering "what if" , then you should go turbo or do nothing at all.

Exactly. I would only go supercharger if I know I want a supercharger and not a turbo.


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## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (VR6rocks)*

VRT + this guy = not a fan. supercharger FTW . i dont think FWD cars should have so much torque


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## iluvfastcarz (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (websaabn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *websaabn* »_ i dont think FWD cars should have so much torque 

HA and why is that? If you don't want so much torque then buy a Honda.


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## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (iluvfastcarz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iluvfastcarz* »_
HA and why is that? If you don't want so much torque then buy a Honda. 

i am talking 300 + WTQ. i am talking from experience There was a turbo on my vr6 for about 4 months, it sucked lots of traction problems at 14 psi now the wifes cabriolet with a supercharger on 12 psi hooks hard in 2nd gear. a lot of people hate on superchargers and have no clue what they are talking about.










_Modified by websaabn at 11:06 AM 3-2-2009_


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## 92gtikid (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (websaabn)*

I have driven a VR6 with a supercharger VF stage 2 kit no intercooled and I have to say my turbo Mk2 VR6 is a lot faster. Just depends on what you want to get out of it. Superchargers on VR6's are very limited. It's very easy to get more power out of a turbo with out going nuts with the motor. 
Supercharger kits are pretty much limited to around 300whp with out going nuts with the motor. You can achieve that much easier with a turbo. Just my .02 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (websaabn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *websaabn* »_
i am talking 300 + WTQ. i am talking from experience There was a turbo on my vr6 for about 4 months, it sucked lots of traction problems at 14 psi now the wifes cabriolet with a supercharger on 12 psi hooks hard in 2nd gear. a lot of people hate on superchargers and have no clue what they are talking about.









_Modified by websaabn at 11:06 AM 3-2-2009_


I hate on VW superchargers and I *do* know what I'm talking about. I owned a Z-Engineering kit for four years and have been around lots of VF kits. 
Manual belt tensioning SUCKS. Are you killing the bearings in the charger (I was at seven) or breaking waterpump pullies? Don't install a boost gauge unless you're dying to see that you make 3psi at redline under certain circumstances. Tighten that belt, get your boost back, and say goodbye to a bearing.


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## thisismike (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (cabzilla)*

i just took my supercharger off to go turbo after only 7 months. it was fun and was faster than stock. but for the money i would just build a turbo kit and probably save money.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (thisismike)*

Stock clutch on a VR6 will take 300 supercharged HP, as you will only make 210wtq.
Not the cheapest way to get 300whp, but it works, notice the low Torque #'s


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## two09diamonds (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (iluvfastcarz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iluvfastcarz* »_
HA and why is that? If you don't want so much torque then buy a Honda. 

My new sig!


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## IHookItUuup (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (two09diamonds)*

The fun does not start until around 19PSI. You will want more - guaranteed!!! There are alot of members that can tell you from experience.


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## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (IHookItUuup)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IHookItUuup* »_The fun does not start until around 19PSI. You will want more - guaranteed!!! There are alot of members that can tell you from experience.

I have not driven a S/C VR, but I can tell you that it was my original plan. Unfortunately, my retros were much longer then most and keeping the windshield wiper reservoir pretty much made the S/C not an option.
There really isn't anything quite like the heavy breathe of a turbo building up boost, the kick in the ass when the boost builds up, and the sweet, sweet sound of the DV letting off when you clutch in. Beautiful.
Mike


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## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
Manual belt tensioning SUCKS. Are you killing the bearings in the charger (I was at seven) or breaking waterpump pulleys? Don't install a boost gauge unless you're dying to see that you make 3psi at redline under certain circumstances. Tighten that belt, get your boost back, and say goodbye to a bearing. 

v1 charger consistent 12 psi never had any problems with bearings or pulleys. you are all right about the s/c *kits* being limited to around 300 whp, that is fine for a lot of people. I am not one of those people so it takes time and lots of $$$ to get what i want


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## bdcoombs (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (andrewL30723)*

turbo http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dragonfli_x (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (bdcoombs)*

I still kinda miss my SUpercharger and the way it pulls and pulls and pulls... it's really not that bad, but I have a quota to reach







... running turbo now - but your goals aren't as lofty to need a turbo... great for twisties driving and very smooth power delivery.
a stage 1 and 2 is very bulletproof if you tension it correctly - but stage 3 and you have to begin treating your car like a science... 
that supercharger is like a beautiful girlfriend that would keep push you gently back into your chair until you shifted.
Turbo? like a hot S&M chick with a kick!


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (dragonfli_x)*

I was supercharged and now turbo. At the same psi the turbo is more fun, faster, quieter, was cheaper, more upgradable, and has been more reliable. 
I do miss the ability to stomp on it in pretty much any gear and not spin but you just have to not press the pedal to the floor in 1st and 2nd. 
For me it comes down to usable boost over a much broader rpm range. An 8psi VF stage 2 is literally a boost spike of 8psi at 7k. The Kinetic kit sees 8psi from 3k on up. You can have fun all day from 3-4k. I had to rev the VF kit to 5-7k to have any fun so I was literally speeding all the time.


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (slc92)*

Go supercharged cause theres more VRT's out there than there are stock NA VR's.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for originality
And I really just don't see going turbo cheaper or more reliable


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## mk_ultra (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (WeeZFan69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WeeZFan69* »_Go supercharged cause theres more VRT's out there than there are stock NA VR's.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for originality
And I really just don't see going turbo cheaper or more reliable

For originality















I remember back in 03 when the majority of vr6 running force induction around were supercharged. And as far as being reliable. My gti was supercharged and i really could not view it as being reliable. I had to tighten the belt and had belt slip running 12 psi. 
My opinion, after going the route of supercharing, go turbo. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif You are definitely going to be addicted and want more boost.


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## Edsquickvr6 (Apr 29, 2003)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (WeeZFan69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WeeZFan69* »_Go supercharged cause theres more VRT's out there than there are stock NA VR's.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for originality
And I really just don't see going turbo cheaper or more reliable








15k reliable miles so far on my kit


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (mk_ultra)*

I say go supercharged.....
Only,,,,,,,,,,,,, if like kids with turbo ABA's kicking sand in your face all day long


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (WeeZFan69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WeeZFan69* »_Go supercharged cause theres more VRT's out there than there are stock NA VR's.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for originality
And I really just don't see going turbo cheaper or more reliable


There are more VRTs because they are faster. My turbo setups were infinitely more than the charger I owned or the kits I have been around.


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (WeeZFan69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WeeZFan69* »_Go supercharged cause theres more VRT's out there than there are stock NA VR's.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for originality

Guess it doesn't matter if it works or not, as long as it's different. Some stellar logic you got going there. 

_Quote, originally posted by *WeeZFan69* »_
And I really just don't see going turbo cheaper 

A fully-optioned stage 2 VF kit runs about $4500 plus shipping, that's with the extended warranty (that you *WILL* need). Supposedly makes 280 flywheel hp, what's that translate to in whp - 225, 240? If memory serves this kit used to list for almost 5K fully loaded. Upgrades, not so much unless you wanna fab a gilmer-belt setup to stop the belt from slipping. 
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage...arger
MSRP on a stage 2 Kinetic kit lists for $4150.00 and I've seen them for under 4K. Advertised 300whp. Easily upgraded to 400+ for short money. 
http://www.kineticmotorsport.c....html
So yeah, if you believe the advertising hype a turbo gets you a little more WHP for a little less money. And a turbo kit won't kill the bearings on your alternator, A/C compressor and P/S pump. 



_Modified by vr6swap at 7:57 AM 3-7-2009_


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (vr6swap)*

apparently there are no fans of a supercharged vr...


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (WeeZFan69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WeeZFan69* »_apparently there are no fans of a supercharged vr...

Very much there is only a few "Hardcore" guys who like the superchargers.
V9's are fine providing you know the limits, 12psi max with ceramic bearings. You can make 300whp off a V9 without a problem, you just have to talk to the right people. However a V1 offers a lot more potential for HP. Selection of cams/exhaust work is crucial with a SC setup.


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (WeeZFan69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WeeZFan69* »_apparently there are no fans of a supercharged vr...

Delivering less power and more driveability / reliability issues for more money generally doesn't win many fans. 
Collier @ C2 busted his ass to bring a workable S/C kit to the market, and it didn't sell. 


_Modified by vr6swap at 9:47 AM 3-7-2009_


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## vw1320 (Jul 11, 2000)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (vr6swap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6swap* »_
Delivering less power and more driveability / reliability issues for more money generally doesn't win many fans. 
Collier @ C2 busted his ass to bring a workable S/C kit to the market, and it didn't sell. 

_Modified by vr6swap at 9:47 AM 3-7-2009_
 
How is copying a copy of a kit working your ass off? C2 did nothing original when it came to vr6 superchargers. Even "their" dual idler was a copy of an idea created by a Vortex member - right down to the idler pulley used. A C2 supercharger is nothing more than an AMS kit with a crappy pulley and slightly better software. They didn't even have a test/development car of their own. Oh yeah you don't need a development car when you are just straight copying someone's design. To be fair C2 wasn't the first to knock-off the AMS kit - Eurotech did a small run a while back. 
I may be in the small minority but I love supercharged vr6's. I have had pretty much every setup under the sun minus nitrous and the supercharger is/was my favorite followed closely by my current all motor setup. I went 12.39 on radials with a 3.12" (10lb) pulley and a stock clutch with nothing more than a good tune and a homemade intercooler setup. The car was full weight minus the back seat and spare. It even had a stock trans with a stock diff. The only trans issue I ever had in a couple hundred passes was with the stock diff and slicks and thats pretty much a given. Not too many turbo cars can say that - or run the times I did with a stock clutch. 
A properly setup s/c is brutal on the street as well. Traction is your friend - Spinning isn't winning


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## mk_ultra (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (WeeZFan69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WeeZFan69* »_apparently there are no fans of a supercharged vr...

It's not that there are no fans of a supercharged vr6, it is the fact that based on the support we have for it, meaning aftermarket manufacturers, it is just not the effort. I use to run my gti with a v1 and it was great. What drove me away from it was the belt slip and the fact that it was inconsistent for the most part. There were times where i managed to pull 12 pounds, and other times where the belt would slip.
I remember many running superchargers here before turbo. So it is not like they were never popular. I believe that those restrictions for our cars, e.g. belt slip, was the primary reason everyone saw the benefit in going turbo.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (mk_ultra)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk_ultra* »_
It's not that there are no fans of a supercharged vr6, it is the fact that based on the support we have for it, meaning aftermarket manufacturers, it is just not the effort. I use to run my gti with a v1 and it was great. What drove me away from it was the belt slip and the fact that it was inconsistent for the most part. There were times where i managed to pull 12 pounds, and other times where the belt would slip.
I remember many running superchargers here before turbo. So it is not like they were never popular. I believe that those restrictions for our cars, e.g. belt slip, was the primary reason everyone saw the benefit in going turbo. 

That and guys with 1.8t's with GT28rs' blowing your doors off


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
That and guys with 1.8t's with GT28rs' blowing your doors off










X2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
That resulted in many a VF Stg2 Vr becoming a VRT.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (V-dubbulyuh)*

Sad but true


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (Salsa GTI)*

I'll compare apples to apples since so many like to spew their BS to try and prove a point. At the same boost the turbo will be faster provided you get traction. My turbo at 10psi traps 3-4mph higher and is .3-.5 quicker than my SC at 11.5psi. Same car, same chip/injectors, same track, same conditions. Look at your power/boost over the entire rpm band and not just peak.
I don't think guys personally dislike SC's. I just think that if you look at it objectively and put them head to head turbo has alot of advantages over centrifugal SC's. The best opinions come from people that have had both. I would never SC another VR6. Ever. I'll take more fun, cheaper, more reliable, and faster over being "different" any day. My opinion after owning both and doing my best to avoid going turbo.











_Modified by slc92 at 6:50 PM 3-7-2009_


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## MeCarTay (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (vw1320)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw1320* »_ 
How is copying a copy of a kit working your ass off? C2 did nothing original when it came to vr6 superchargers. Even "their" dual idler was a copy of an idea created by a Vortex member - right down to the idler pulley used. A C2 supercharger is nothing more than an AMS kit with a crappy pulley and slightly better software. They didn't even have a test/development car of their own. Oh yeah you don't need a development car when you are just straight copying someone's design. To be fair C2 wasn't the first to knock-off the AMS kit - Eurotech did a small run a while back. 
A properly setup s/c is brutal on the street as well. Traction is your friend - Spinning isn't winning









I couldn't of said it better myself. People tend to forget or just haven't been around long enough to know the companies/products/cars that have come and gone. Just look back to 2002-2003... there were less then 50 vr turbos running around. A good amount of them being Schimmel cars. Supercharged cars were the majority probably 10x over.


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (MeCarTay)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MeCarTay* »_
I couldn't of said it better myself. People tend to forget or just haven't been around long enough to know the companies/products/cars that have come and gone. Just look back to 2002-2003... there were less then 50 vr turbos running around. A good amount of them being Schimmel cars. Supercharged cars were the majority probably 10x over.

Nobody made a plug and play turbo kit for Vr's back then as far as I know. Once someone did, well, we know the rest.


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## TrierBora (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (slc92)*

I say it depends on what you want out of it. I have my vr s/c'd and I love it. I just had to replace the w/p pulley w/ the gruven billet one but it was time to swap the w/p anyways. I love the smooth power delivery, it pulls harder all the way to redline and it just sounds damn sexy. A coule buddies that went turbo had a bunch of headaches and both had to rebuild their motor. Dont have to worry about boost spike and waiting for the clutch to go. 
To each their own... I never wanted more than 300 whp... no point on a fwd car. 
Im running c2's set up at the 8.5 lbs and have no issues.


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## MeCarTay (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_
Nobody made a plug and play turbo kit for Vr's back then as far as I know. Once someone did, well, we know the rest.

There were a few that I know of, but most were standalone. Once the s/w was ironed out kinetic really took it from there. Back in '06 stg 1 was what $2600? Talk about cheap! lol


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: to supercharge, or not to supercharge....my vr6 (MeCarTay)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MeCarTay* »_
There were a few that I know of, but most were standalone. Once the s/w was ironed out kinetic really took it from there. Back in '06 stg 1 was what $2600? Talk about cheap! lol

I may be wrong but I think it may have been $2500 initially w/out the oil pan. I must admit, I initially steered away from turbo b/c of the horror stories. Blowing motors, overboosting, breaking stuff, etc. The vast majority of that is user error. Not clamping the wastegate lines, running too much boost, etc. On a simple 6-10psi setup the most you should ever need to replace is a clutch. 
It's just tough to call SC the "more reliable" way to go IMO. My Giac software sucked, the V9 went in 6500miles, belt slip problems, MAF's oil fouled, broken water pump pullies, virtually no support when you need something etc. They are easier on the drivetrain for sure but at VF stage 2 boost(8psi) you wont have any and if you do it will be a clutch. Use some of the $$ you saved and upgrade it. Done.
Traction can be a bear though w/ a FWD turbo I must admit. Soft tires and an lsd are a must if you wanna use 1st and 2nd. I remember in the summer I could not get 1st to spin at times w/ the SC w/ 17" wheels, Kuhmo MX's, and an lsd.


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