# Issues with a Big Brake kit



## elio (Nov 15, 2006)

Hi friends. I post this topic to know if you can send me some comments or ideas about how to solve a weird issue that I had since I install a big brake kit. 


The car is a common MK4 Golf GTI with 1.8T and simple ABS brakes. I don't have ECS or ASR. About the big brake kit, is an ECS Stage 1 13in rotors in front, ECS Stage 1R 12.1in rotors in rear installed with SS brake lines all around, Tyrolsport front Brake Calipers Stiffening Kit, Ferodo DS2500 brake pads in front, Mintex Red Box pads in rear and ATE Typ 200 brake fluid. 

Ok the issue is about pedal travel and feel. When car is cold/warm, pedal feels strong and firm with little travel to have a strong bite at first. But after some minutes of heavy braking or some high speed usage like in the highway, it gets a little more travel (like an 1/2in) with less consistent brake force. At first I feel how brake pads touch the rotors but it move down a little bit before the brakes starts to bite as it should be. After that pedal travel, brake feeling is good. 

I and also the dealer have bleed the brakes many times, including several ABS pump cycle procedures. More or less a gallon have passed through the brake system during this time. But after all pedal travel remains with that feeling. 

Looking and checking the calipers action I found some unusual movement of it over the rotors. The front one feels like it want to get out, a inclined movement, not the horizontal one that it should do. And in the rears, I saw some good play between the pad and the rotor when e-brake is not used. Also I feel like a side of the caliper tends to move more that the other when I move it with the hand. Reading the ECS install documents I found that some clearance or alignment issues of the rotor and the caliper can cause that the pads have an uneven force over the rotors. Inclusive it is cleary mentioned at the end of the ECS Stage 1R install document. 

During all this story I have replaced the brake pump, more brake fluid for bleed action and rear pads for Hawk HPS looking for better and consistent bite. Then friends I need some ideas or comments from people that had these brakes or had caliper flex issues in the past. I know that many people will said that I need to bleed the brakes again, but I, friends of the garage and the dealer have done so many times, that it should be impossible that it could be the problem. Also ABS controller does not send and error when I scan it with VAG COM. 

Sorry to write too much. 
Thanks,


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## DC Jetta Guy (Jul 31, 2004)

So, in short, none of your pads are making correct/square contact with the rotors?


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## elio (Nov 15, 2006)

DC Jetta Guy said:


> So, in short, none of your pads are making correct/square contact with the rotors?


 You are right friend. We discovery two weeks ago that the Tyrolsport metallic bushing kit of the front calipers had a little clearance in the caliper housing (bushing holes) making that the caliper rotate or flex a little making an uneven contact of the pad over the rotors. Then I tryied installing the OEM rubber bushings again and making a new plane in the pads to make it totally flat, and after the pads beds again in the rotors the car is breaking now like it should be, in one word, amazing.

You can't imagine more than a year searching, changing pads, bleeding brake fluid a big number of times and more than a gallon of fluid, checking rear calipers mechanism, etc........ to find that these bushing was causing me this little headache.

Well finally is done, but I will like to know if someone else got the same issue with that bushings.


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## DC Jetta Guy (Jul 31, 2004)

Actually, I've had the Tyrolsport pin and bushing set installed on my GLI for several years now. In fact, I just went through the fronts this past weekend to clean an re-grease everything. They work VERY well for my stock GLI/TT sized brake stuff. My front rotors are still very smooth after 40k+ miles. Sucks that they wouldn't work in your big brake kit. They really are an excellent part. Either way, glad you got it sorted out! 

Cheers!:beer:


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

elio said:


> Well finally is done, but I will like to know if someone else got the same issue with that bushings.


 Is your destination Venezuela? (VE) 
curious, vehicles of the same model do not always get the exact same brakes, sometimes it depends on the market destination. :what:


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## elio (Nov 15, 2006)

GTijoejoe said:


> Is your destination Venezuela? (VE)
> curious, vehicles of the same model do not always get the exact same brakes, sometimes it depends on the market destination.


 Yes friend I live in Venezuela. It could be possible that my calipers have a difference tolerance than others but it should be the same common FN3 calipers found in VW/Audi cars with 1.8T/VR6 engines. In fact my ECS Tuning Stage 1 Big Brake Kit is working in my car like a champ.
I can take a measure of the bushings diameter to compare with some of you have.


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## elio (Nov 15, 2006)

elio said:


> Yes friend I live in Venezuela. It could be possible that my calipers have a difference tolerance than others but it should be the same common FN3 calipers found in VW/Audi cars with 1.8T/VR6 engines. In fact my ECS Tuning Stage 1 Big Brake Kit is working in my car like a champ.
> I can take a measure of the bushings diameter to compare with some of you have.


Friends sorry for the big delay. But here I left you some pics of the bushings.









I take some dimensions of the bushings and all are OD (18.3mm) ID (12.1mm) L (22.8mm) but if you compare 2nd and 3rd pics you can see those ones had a different metal contact than the others, that was the movement that I check in the calipers. And that was a vertical movement. 

Then after test many other cars with sliding and fixed calipers in the street and the track, I know that our calipers are good units but when you thorugh out some big rotors and after some highway/track usage those starts to flex badly, so my big question is: how can I solve my issue with the metallic bushings?


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## greyhare (Dec 24, 2003)

Can you get your hands on new calipers? Not rebuilt.

My bet is your calipers are worn and that is why the new bushings are not working as expected.


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## elio (Nov 15, 2006)

greyhare said:


> Can you get your hands on new calipers? Not rebuilt.
> 
> My bet is your calipers are worn and that is why the new bushings are not working as expected.


I think the same thing too friend..... I really do not why my calipers worn out in the bushing hole. I have heard about some people using J-Weld with the metallic bushings to avoid the play that I was telling you. Also some MIG welding is another option. If that ideas do not work I will get new calipers or maybe a real BBK with fixed calipers. But the idea was not to expend more money in some brakes that are still working good.


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