# Official megasquirt post



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

Starting this post since I noticed many inquires about the megasquirt system, hopefully We will learn more about this.
please post your questions, progress in building it, or tech information that may be helpful to vortex/megasquirt users
also if you already have it running please post tech tips, etc
At this moment I finished building mine and is going to be installed this weekend
website:
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html 
you can find a zillion posts here at the yahoo group but honestly there is so much information there that creating this post here at the vortex is an attempt to filter and compile information only related to VW'S
yahoo groups:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/megasquirt/ 
thanks to all


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

I'll kick in some info,... oh and some pics for views.
I'll try to get some more info in here once I get to work,...it *is* Fri after all!!
This is a group for everyone who is installing the Megasquirt system onto their Audi or VW to share information and ideas.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/megaVAG

























-real-time fuel calculations up to 16,000 RPM! 
- instant re-programming of constants, enrichments, etc. while the vehicle is running
-supports rev limiter by fuel cutoff. RPM limit and reengage RPM can be 
adjusted. Pulsewidth at fuel cutoff can be adjusted.
-on-board Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor (Motorola MPX4115)
-MAP sensor is additionally used to obtain the barometric pressure during engine startup, in order to determine a barometric pressure correction factor.
-Air density corrections as a function of manifold air temperatue (MAT) and barometric pressure effects on VE are pre-computed as lookup tables and properly used by the ECU in the fuel calculation. Most aftermarket EFI controllers allow the user to set the air temperature correction - MagaSquirt uses the mathematical equation for air density to generate this correction, so no user intervention is required. More importantly, many aftermarket EFI controllers do not take account the effect of barometric pressure change to volumetric efficiency. This correction comes into play at high altitudes (i.e. low barometric pressures). MegaSquirt uses a lookup table to determine this correction, and is consistent with OEM systems. 
-specific RPM and MAP range points are adjustable by the end user
-There is an output control signal (current sink up to 500ma) designed to drive an idle bypass solenoid (open/close solenoid, not a stepper), which allows the addition of more air at idle during warmup. The activation/deactivation temperature is set by the user. 
-A relay drive circuit (up to 500 ma) is provided to control power to the fuel pump. Signal is active while the engine is cranking or running, and will deactivate 2 seconds after the last ignition event. 
-option of using either SD or Alpha-N.
-Can handle throttle-body injection, can control individual port injectors
-Other people have developed and shared helpful freeware / hardware for MegaSquirt, including: 
MegaTune - for tuning and datalogging MegaSquirt with a laptop
MegaTweak3000 - for refining your volumetric efficiency table from datalogged data
EasyTherm - to simplify the substitution of non-standard temperature sensors and to upload software revisions.
MS Palm - to tune and datalog with a Palm 
MegaView - to provide a dedicated dash display
-The TPS sensor tells MegaSquirt what the current position of the throttle. This variable is compared to the most recent readings to determine if the throttle is opening or closing rapidly. If so, extra fuel can be added for an opening throttle to compensate for transient conditions. This functions the same as an accelerator pump in a carburetor.
-The TPS also does two other important functions. First, if the throttle is open more than a specified amount during cranking, it invokes the “flood clear” mode by reducing the injected pulsewidth to 0.3 milliseconds. Second, if the throttle is open more than 70%, exhaust gas feedback is shut off.
-options to shut off EGO correction below a specified coolant temperature or below a specified engine rpm.
-works off of signal from coil or dizzy hall sensor for ignition,..no need for special toothed wheels or magnets.
-capability to fully exploit a wide-band sensor by incorporating full time, all conditions closed loop feedback for fuelling with real-time updating of the VE table

There is now a software interface to tune/datalog MegaSquirt from Unix/Linux
Available HERE


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## Trike (Apr 15, 2000)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif gave me 199.43 whp, ran dual channels, one for water and other for injectors. ran a 6al as well. keep in mind this 199whp was with a ihi rhb5, not much bigger than a k03







this was with the wastegate unplugged. motor was a 8v 1.8L jh with g60pistons.
have any questions feel free to ask.
ps... if you read the guide.. I'm the wing diode ;-)




_Modified by Trike at 6:57 AM 9-5-2003_


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## Trike (Apr 15, 2000)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (PowerDubs)*

just a minor correction to powerdubs
it's a 2 bar map, mpx 4250. the older units were shipped with the 4115. all newer ones shipped with the 4250. (~21psi)


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Trike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Trike* »_just a minor correction to powerdubs


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Good looking out!! I just copied all that info from Lance's FAQ, so apparently he needs to update.








BTW Trike, I bought my unit preassembled new but second hand. Is there a way for me to find out which one I have? Any other changes made to the hardware or software that we should be aware of?
If I have the old MAP, will it still work for NA, or should I upgrade it?


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## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (PowerDubs)*

Did you buy it from Derrick in Balitmore? If so, I built that one. It's a V2, and I think was already set up for VW sensors and had the latest beta code that works great with VW ignitions. If not, just look at the board itself to find out what hardware version it is. As for firmware, you can just load it up with whatever you want, so it doesn't matter so much whats on it.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *angusmf* »_Did you buy it from Derrick in Balitmore? If so, I built that one. It's a V2, and I think was already set up for VW sensors and had the latest beta code that works great with VW ignitions.


Yes, I bought it from him. Can you explain a little more about the 'set-up' for Vw sensors, etc? I intend on running it on my 2.0 16v, and will still be using the motronic ECU for ign purposes.
Thanks


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## Ricestalker (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

I have my Megasquirt assembled and tested. I also buit the tester and a relay board. I have yet to wire it to my engine as I just completed the swap last week. I'm going to run 30 lb Ford injectors and an old but rebuilt T3 from a DSM. I'm in the process of trying to figure out which pins to use on the TPS connector. I found the two that control the fast idle solenoid, that leaves 5 to choose from.







One I figure out which ones work I'll post the info here. I'm hoping to be able to run the stock ignition system, but I've heard that is difficult to do. I'll post here as I make progress. I'm still a long way from a running car. I still need to find an appropriate GM open element air intake temp sensor. I'm also still sourcing the parts for my fuel system. (pump regulator etc.)
Later,
Chet


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## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (PowerDubs)*

The coolant and air temp sensors are somewhat different on different makes (vw, toyota, ford, etc.) Megasquirt uses a table to figure out what resistance values from those sensors correspond to different temps. You use eztherm (from the files section on the yahoo group) to update the megasquirt code with the correct table for your sensors. I already loaded up both the coolant and air temp tables with values that work for the coolant sensor VW used on CIS-e, which is what you should have. This will work if you do what I did. I used a second coolant sensor for air temp. I just made a hole in the intake tube and screwed it in. The wisdom on the MS list says that works fine for naturally aspirated applications like yours. If you ever run turbo, you can grind off the brass casing from the sensor you use for air temp. This will expose the acutal sensor element inside so that it can react much faster. Then you just reinforce the leads a little with some sensor-safe RTV. Your other option is to get a GM or other air temp sensor and reload air temp table with the curve for that sensor.


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

Okay, this thread is pretty cool. 
I built up my Megasquirt unit last weekend (and it works on the stimulator), so this weekend I'm going to get going on the installation in the car. Thanks to Angusmf, BTW for his help with this.
Some ideas:
1. Remove the cold start injector, replace it with a threaded block-off plate that will accept the GM intake air temp sensor (NAPA Item#: MPETS5100SB Price: $15.49 , pigtail for the AIT sensor NAPA item # ECHTSC300 ,Price: $ 11.49 ).
***Does anyone see any problems with that?***
2. Use the stock coolant temp sensor on the Rabbit and use Megatherm to "tune" it.
3. For the wiring from the MS to the relay, solder the cable ends while it is in the car (since the cable is just like an old printer cable, the large end pieces won't fit through any of the grommets in the fire wall).
4. Fuel supply: (this from angusmf):
First the high pressure line. This goes to the plastic nipple on the 
fuel 
rail if you're using one from a Digifant car. There is a hard line 
coming 
off the fuel filter which has a plastic line that goes to the fuel 
distributor. The plastic line should be covered in the remnants of 
some 
rubber or steel braid. I forget which. Get down to that plastic, and 
cut 
it off the hard line. Replacements are easy to find, but use something 
from 
the junkyard if yours are nice. You'll find a barb on the end of the 
hard 
line. You can then run fuel injection hose (the really thick stuff 
that 
costs 4 bucks a foot) to the rail with hose clamps on each end. I did 
it 
that way so that I could use the stock filter in more-or-less the stock 
position. Pure laziness. If you want to get tricky and mount yours 
closer 
to the pump like on an A2, you can do that too. You'd just do it the 
same 
as the return line. Which leads me to...
The return line is easy too. There are screw in fittings that go to 
the 
steel lines coming up from under the car. Same deal...just cut the 
plastic 
line off it, and you're left with a little fitting with a barb. Run 
that 
same FI hose to the exit port on the fuel pressure reg (sticks to the 
end of 
your Digi rail.) You can do the same with the feed line as I mentioned 
above. But make sure you have a filter in there somewhere.

I also have a few questions:
1. How do I attach the accelerator cable to my Passat throttle body?
2. How do I wire the fuel pump to the relay board?
Good to see an active VW group getting on this!


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## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

Few problems, Ian.
1. You won't get much flow over the sensor in that position. That's why I stuck it before the TB.
2. The coolant sensor in the rabbit is VDO. May have a totally different curve, so even with eztherm it might not work. You'd have to take readings at lots of points to get the shape of the curve. As for the other one, that connects to the O2 computer if you have one, it's on/off on an A1. So that's no good. If you can make the VDO one work, cool. Otherwise just replace the neck on your head with one that can take the CIS-e sensor.
As for your questions:
1. You can swap the linkage from your old TB to the Passat one. I did it, but it required enlarging the hole. You'll just have to try it and see. Another option is to swap cable ends. And the final choice is to try to find a cable that will work. You need a relatively long one with the correct end. Some A2s might have it.
2. No idea. I left the stock fuel pump relay in place. Works great and it's very safe (no tach signal, fuel pump no worky!)


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

this thread is getting excellent
I'm using the gm open element air sensor and gm coolant sensor, I figured is easier than changing the values, since I'm doing custom intercooler and coolant routing I'll be welding bungs on the pipes, (I heard standard o2 sensor bungs are the same thread, same as big spark plug anti-foulers, someone can confirm?)
the pigtails for both I got from autozone (I had to shave the little ribs on one to fit) but it clips perfect
I already have everything, fpr, fuel rail etc from a g60 and I have 32's injectors, all going into my already turboed cabriolet (jh engine) 

QUESTION
what do you guys did in the resistor with the bridged wire?
what did you wire the xg1 or whatever grounding bridging that the assembly guide mentiones at the end
mine is working perfect with the stimulator / pc


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Steve,
This is from the MS Megamanual:
http://members.shaw.ca/megasquirt/manual/mwire.htm

"The thread for the recommended General Motors coolant and air temperature sensors for MegaSquirt is 3/8 inch National Pipe Thread [NPT]. A 9/16 inch pilot hole is required for the tap. (Recall that pipe sizes are based on nominal inside diameters, not outside diameters as for standard National Coarse [NC] and National Fine [NF] threads...) "

Also, for the resistor with the bridged wire, I left the "legs" of the 2 resistors uncut on the underside of the board(they are side by side on the board), joined one leg from each resistor together and then soldered them together to form the bridge.
I'm not sure about the XG1 thing, if you post the step # from the megamanual, it will help me to remember what I did.



_Modified by ijcameron at 12:39 PM 9-5-2003_


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

thanks ijcameron
here's the step with the doubt
taken from assembly page
54. Now, it is choice time again, this time regarding the opto-isolator installed at U4. The LED inside of the opto-isolator is fired by a signal provided by the ignition system. The pulses existing on an ignition, especially when pulled directly off of the coil primary, can spike to very high voltages. The return path of the LED is terminated to jumper pad XG1. This return path can either go directly to the board ground (by placing a jumper from XG1 to XG2), or, the return can be brought out of one of the jumper slots on the DB-37 connector (like X11), and then grounded with a separate wire on the DB-37 connector, thus isolating the ground. Note: for the ECU to work on the stimulator, then the XG1 terminal needs to be hooked to XG2, and right now we are doing stimulator testing, so install a jumper from XG1 to XG2. Now, when you install the ECU, if you need isolation because the tach signal is resetting the ECU (for those installs tapping right off of the ignition coil (-) terminal), then you can remove this jumper and connect XG1 to X11, and ground this pin (#25 for X11) with a separate return wire. Note: if you are using a tach output from an aftermarket or many OEM setups, the tach signal is a nice +12V pulse - these will work fine with the XG1 terminal jumpered to XG2 in the install. Again: for testing right with the stimulator, hook XG1 to XG2. Later, after you install this on your vehicle, if you have reset problems, then remove this jumper and jumper XG1 to X11, and bring out a separate return ground wire. 
Some installations have reported problems with low rpm “spikes”. Typically this sees the reported rpm at 1100 rpm jump to 5000+ rpm for short periods. This can make idle and off-idle tuning difficult. To fix this, try the “Dave” capacitor. This is a 0.22µf cap across the junction of D5/R10 to XG1. (See the ignition triggering section of the Tuning section of this manual for details).


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## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Leave it jumpered. Worked on mine.
---edit---
But use the 2.986 "beta" code. I got tach spikes using the straight 2.0 code. Use download.exe to load it up. That seems to be the most reliable.
---edit again---
Ian,
You shouldn't have jumpered any resistors. The trick you described is what you do with the D8 diode if I'm not mistaken.

_Modified by angusmf at 2:11 PM 9-5-2003_


_Modified by angusmf at 2:13 PM 9-5-2003_


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

Woops, you're right - it was "D8" I was thinking of:
49. For most installations, diode D8 (1N4733AMSCT-ND, John Zener, 5.1V, marked 1N4733) is not needed. 
Steve: O2 sensors are an 18 x 1.5mm thread, same as a spark plug.


_Modified by ijcameron at 2:00 PM 9-5-2003_


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## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

megasquirt is cool as hell. someone should make up a batch and sell them here..


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (mrkrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrkrad* »_megasquirt is cool as hell. someone should make up a batch and sell them here..










yes, so far I love it, it is so versatile can't beat the price either not to mention the fun of building it
the problem selling these assembled is there is a misconception of the value of the megasquirt system, I heard things like "how come you want $200 for an assembled one if is only 120 in parts"








people don't realize that the parts are over $ 100, then wait for the stuff to arrive from 2 different sources, the hours of learning about assembling it, the hours of actual building the thing, but you have to have or buy, wires, cables, solder, soldering gun, cut the end plates or get them cnc'd, then get sensors, adapt them, get fittings, etc, by the time you finish with the project you invested over 250 dollars in stuff and at least another 250 dollars of your time, but in my opinions the concept of controlling fuelling in such an accurate and programmable way, is waaaay worth it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by stevelangford at 6:11 PM 9-5-2003_


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

I second that!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Vento FI)*

and most people don't have the skills to properly build it, calibrate it, and lastly tune it. It's definitely not Plug n play yet.
I look forward to ultramegasquirt with the nernst cell support. that will make things easier. Of course cost will go up a bit but the specs so far are pretty badass. 
But i would not buy a megasquirt from just anyone. I would want a unit tested (as in a car), all it takes is one bad solder to ruin your (motor) day.
poor construction of a megasquirt's would result in a bad name for them, for whoever takes up the task of making them.
So your point is valid. If i had to build them, test them, and then WARRANTY them (a must), you have to factor in costs.
You also have to factor in the fact that someone might jack it in wrong, and fry it, then you would be responsible for support and repair (Warranty).
support and warranty would be extremely costly, imo.
you can't really just sell a product without either, just wont fly for the majority of people that have no clue on how to assemble, test, tune it.
so that $120 in parts + your time + support + warranty +profit = how much?


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (mrkrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrkrad* »_and most people don't have the skills to properly build it, calibrate it, and lastly tune it. It's definitely not Plug n play yet.
I look forward to ultramegasquirt with the nernst cell support. that will make things easier. Of course cost will go up a bit but the specs so far are pretty badass. 
But i would not buy a megasquirt from just anyone. I would want a unit tested (as in a car), all it takes is one bad solder to ruin your (motor) day.
poor construction of a megasquirt's would result in a bad name for them, for whoever takes up the task of making them.
So your point is valid. If i had to build them, test them, and then WARRANTY them (a must), you have to factor in costs.
You also have to factor in the fact that someone might jack it in wrong, and fry it, then you would be responsible for support and repair (Warranty).
support and warranty would be extremely costly, imo.
you can't really just sell a product without either, just wont fly for the majority of people that have no clue on how to assemble, test, tune it.
so that $120 in parts + your time + support + warranty +profit = how much?



yes that's what I'm talking about. keep'em coming


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## Ricestalker (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stevelangford* »_
yes, so far I love it, it is so versatile can't beat the price either not to mention the fun of building it
the problem selling these assembled is there is a misconception of the value of the megasquirt system, I heard things like "how come you want $200 for an assembled one if is only 120 in parts"








people don't realize that the parts are over $ 100, then wait for the stuff to arrive from 2 different sources, the hours of learning about assembling it, the hours of actual building the thing, but you have to have or buy, wires, cables, solder, soldering gun, cut the end plates or get them cnc'd, then get sensors, adapt them, get fittings, etc, by the time you finish with the project you invested over 250 dollars in stuff and at least another 250 dollars of your time, but in my opinions the concept of controlling fuelling in such an accurate and programmable way, is waaaay worth it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by stevelangford at 6:11 PM 9-5-2003_

Yeah, I said that.







What you don't realize is that I said that after having built one myself. You seem to be missing my point. Let me rephrase that:
Why spend $200 on a completed MS system when for $80 less you can actually build it yourself and in the process glean an understanding of how it works, how to test it etc?
Does that make more sense.








Chet


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Ricestalker)*

where do you guys have the air temp sensor mounted?


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## Rusto GTI (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

What are you guys going to be doing for ingnition in your cars? I am so close to being sold on this route instead of digi1 but just want to make sure I will have a decent ignition system as well that can advance and retard depending on boost and other factors. Thanks
PS I know about the megaspark and all that.. i am looking more along the lines of OEM VW systems or MSD/crane types.. thanks
Rusto


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Rusto GTI)*

Ive just started to get my foot in the door with megasquirt, and I havent even ordered it yet! I just have to clear up a spot on my credit card







Between building a head and starting college ($420 books, only 20-25 hrs a week between 2 jobs, etc...) its kinda difficult to keep the funds going! 
Anyways back to your question, from what I understand if you are running CIS (I assume you are...) Swapping in a motronic brain would be the easiest way to go. 
1) Its a fairly straight forward swap.
2) You can get a chip for it for a better ignition curve and a rev limiter of 8000 RPM 
3)What other swap is there? 
This is a very informative post! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Although im focused on just getting this thing built right now, looks like a lot of my future questions have already been answered! Thanks for putting in the links with your posts!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_from what I understand if you are running CIS (I assume you are...) Swapping in a motronic brain would be the easiest way to go. 


cracker, motronic would be no good for boosted, epsecially not with a chip and advanced timing curves.
Notice that he wanted- "just want to make sure I will have a decent ignition system as well that can advance and retard depending on boost"


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (PowerDubs)*

OH holy crap! he did say that.... Well Ill be damed... I had just gotten up and was checking my email.... 
Hey!! You stupid cracker..... your full of crap dude! motronic would suck for a boosted application! You cant adjust timing or anything on it! What were you thinking!








Sorry







Motronic would be nice for an ez swap on a NA motor though!


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## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CrackerX)*

you can guess timing with a motronic, but the boosted motronic's all have map sensor input. ME5.9., 7.0 and up for boosted motors all use a map sensor. the first ME5.9. derivative with boost control (dbw) and map sensing was used by the new beetle, it is quite a bit simpler than the current generation ones, but had nifty stuff never the less. 
You could change the code to use a spare a/d input line to add map sensing to motronic, for the most part there's always some spare io unused since (me) motronic was a rather generic unit sold to many euro manufacturers, the idea was to build an ecu that could facilitate many cars with one design and different firmware to reduce costs.



_Modified by mrkrad at 10:16 AM 9-6-2003_


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (mrkrad)*

I'm running the standard ignition in my cabriolet and alway guessed the timing, never had any problems really up to 15 lbs of boos, but again I discovered the diagraphm inside the vacuum actuator in hte dizzy is been ruptured forever. anyway this is what is next in my list:
for $330.00 you can get this boost sensitive/adjustable msd ignition








MSD 6BTM, PN 6462
Supercharged or turbo engines will benefit from the 6BTM in more ways than one. Not only do the full energy sparks help burn the fuel mixture, it allows the driver to retard the ignition timing based on the amount of boost being produced by the supercharger. The timing is adjusted from a dash
mounted knob and can be retarded 1 - 3° per pound of boost with a maximum of 15°. There is also a built-in adjustable rev control to protect the engine from over-rev damage. Note: Same specs as the 6A except for Size: 
Size: 8"Lx4"Wx2.25"H


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## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

If you guys haven't already checked it out, there is code for the MS that does spark and fuel in the same box. It's called MegaSquirt'n'Spark. http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/...spark
One guy (can't remember what name he goes by on vortex) is already running it on his Rabbit witht home-made ITB setup. Since it's a full 8x8 map like the fuel, you can do pretty much anything with it, including retard under boost. Best of all, there's no extra cost.


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## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

well you do need an ignition box. i don't think the nspark actually has spark drivers, it was my understanding it used the fast-idle to send a dwell to a spark box which would fire the coil?
correct me if im wrong.


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## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (mrkrad)*

VWs already have a "spark box" unless it came with points. There is usually an ignition module in the rain tray that connects to the hall sender. You feed the MSnS signal to that. It works a lot like the seperate knock-sensing spark control units found on mid-80s GTIs and GLIs. Digifant may be similar. I don't know about anything later than that since they were crank triggered.


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## Jeebs (Oct 1, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Would this work well in an ABA 16vT using a boost controller with two presets? Im just learning about all this, so Im not sure if it would work (Im planning on using 7-10psi for cruising around and 15-17psi for AutoX and draggin').


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## KrautFed (Jan 9, 2002)

Not VAG, but a lot of good general info:
Turbobricks.org Megasquirt info (all you need to know!)


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (KrautFed)*

Thanks for the Volvo link.


_Quote »_ 
where do you guys have the air temp sensor mounted?


Steve,
All of the OEM applications I saw in the junkyard yesterday have the AIT sensor either in the airbox, or in the ducting leading to the TB. ie. all of them are BEFORE the throttle body. I did see a picuture of a Megasquirt guy with a Rabbit mount his directly into the intake manifold. The guy in the Volvo link (above) did the same thing.
For my application, I"m going to mount it before the TB initially (probably use a small length of exhaust pipe to do this), and see how well it works. If that's the wrong way, someone please let me know!


_Modified by ijcameron at 8:50 AM 9-7-2003_


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ijcameron* »_Thanks for the Volvo link.

Steve,
All of the OEM applications I saw in the junkyard yesterday have the AIT sensor either in the airbox, or in the ducting leading to the TB. ie. all of them are BEFORE the throttle body. I did see a picuture of a Megasquirt guy with a Rabbit mount his directly into the intake manifold. The guy in the Volvo link (above) did the same thing.
For my application, I"m going to mount it before the TB initially (probably use a small length of exhaust pipe to do this), and see how well it works. If that's the wrong way, someone please let me know!

_Modified by ijcameron at 8:50 AM 9-7-2003_

yes that's what i'm doing, just before the tb
next question, leave the stock fuel pump relay do the pumping or get rid of it and use the one on the relay board?


----------



## tongboy (Dec 13, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (mrkrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrkrad* »_and most people don't have the skills to properly build it, calibrate it, and lastly tune it. It's definitely not Plug n play yet.
But i would not buy a megasquirt from just anyone. I would want a unit tested (as in a car), all it takes is one bad solder to ruin your (motor) day.
poor construction of a megasquirt's would result in a bad name for them, for whoever takes up the task of making them.
So your point is valid. If i had to build them, test them, and then WARRANTY them (a must), you have to factor in costs.
You also have to factor in the fact that someone might jack it in wrong, and fry it, then you would be responsible for support and repair (Warranty).
support and warranty would be extremely costly, imo.
you can't really just sell a product without either, just wont fly for the majority of people that have no clue on how to assemble, test, tune it.
so that $120 in parts + your time + support + warranty +profit = how much?

I've been mulling over selling a tested/calibrated unit setup for vw specifically with the base megasquirt and relay. parts come out all said and done to just under 200 bucks with the two group buys and the parts from digikey as well as the box and misc things like solder and spray on protectant.
the only way anyone would buy it would be if you can keep costs down and show that its worth spending the money on having someone already test and calibrate the unit. I don't see having a warranty as something that is a must, solder the board up very well, clear coat the thing to prevent any kind of problems and you have a very solid circuit board. the problem comes with supporting the board there really isn't anyway to get around that but once you've dealt with most cases the answers would be something of just pointing the people in the right direction or having a nice faq page setup for different scenarios.
people would also have the advantage of getting the parts within a few days instead of waiting for the group buys and the digikey stuff and then spending days soldering and testing. if you build a few a week you'll be able to put them together very precisely and accurately in very little time as well as thouroughly test them for cases that most people would never think to test them for.
theres a lot of risk in starting selling these though, so I've just started with two kits for now, one for myself and one to sell, if that goes, and so far the kits have gone together beautifully and are testing out well.
so who wants a tested/calibrated/relayed megasquirt for 275 shipped?


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (tongboy)*

if i were to buy it, i'd ask for at least 90 day warranty (no ifs ands or butts). for that price.
At least. Or maybe an optional charge for warranty. I mean otherwise i'd give it a shot myself. My time is worth X, however i have reasonable expectations as well for quality, and that quality is ensured if you back it up with a warranty. otherwise i would think hmm maybe this aint a quality job if he won't put his name behind it.
?


----------



## tongboy (Dec 13, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (mrkrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrkrad* »_if i were to buy it, i'd ask for at least 90 day warranty (no ifs ands or butts). for that price.
At least. Or maybe an optional charge for warranty. I mean otherwise i'd give it a shot myself. My time is worth X, however i have reasonable expectations as well for quality, and that quality is ensured if you back it up with a warranty. otherwise i would think hmm maybe this aint a quality job if he won't put his name behind it.
?


The problem I see with a warranty (and I've seen it many times before) is someone does something very wrong to whatever it is thats warranteed and then sends it back for warranty service acting like nothing happened and they didn't do anything.
I'm not saying you or anyone else who would buy one would do that but the possibility exists. obviously by selling it an "it wont arrive dead" statement is implied but I can see adding 25-50 bucks for a 90 days no questions asked warranty on it, that would cover any of the misc problems that could be user caused since realistically its hard to break something thats solid state unless its abused. I need to get one unit polished and take some pics to show the quality that will be put into every unit


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (tongboy)*

what I would do for warranty and support is sending people directly to digikey, and the yahoo group dastabase, we all know this is experimental even that is known to be a great system, the yahoo group datbase is a very huge and powerful tool for technical support, is like having a few hundred technicians on line 24/7. I would just build them very good and tested and god bless them with it


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

How much current is running through the switched 12V input into the relay board? I'm guessing it's just enough to trip the relay switches and the constant 12V is the primary power source, but not sure on that one.
Also, what are the best sources for switched 12V? I'm thinking:
1. Underhood = (+) side of coil
2. In car = wiring to ignition switch.

Steve, to answer your question about the fuel pump relay, I think I'm going to take Jim's advice and just leave it as is , instead of trying to rewire it.
Any better ideas?


_Modified by ijcameron at 6:30 PM 9-7-2003_


----------



## stroudcoheavy (Sep 21, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

I'm leaving my fuel pump wiring alone, I just finished with everything but wiring the injectors.
For switched 12v I was considering looking at the wiring for my CIS-E controller. I'm not using it anymore, and it might just have a switched 12v in the harness.
I'm still not sure how I am wiring up the tach signal, I think I want to use the hall sensor, but I'm not sure which wire does what.


_Modified by stroudcoheavy at 10:44 PM 9-7-2003_


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ijcameron* »_How much current is running through the switched 12V input into the relay board? I'm guessing it's just enough to trip the relay switches and the constant 12V is the primary power source, but not sure on that one.
Also, what are the best sources for switched 12V? I'm thinking:
1. Underhood = (+) side of coil
2. In car = wiring to ignition switch.

Steve, to answer your question about the fuel pump relay, I think I'm going to take Jim's advice and just leave it as is , instead of trying to rewire it.
Any better ideas?

_Modified by ijcameron at 6:30 PM 9-7-2003_

Im going to use the + on the coil, is just for triggering the relays as you mentioned and it wont draw much current
Leaving the stock fuel pump relay is tempting but my reasoning for my dilema is that is going to be relay after relay and more things to troubleshoot if ever someting goes wrong, so why keep it, 
removing the fuel pump relay and probing the slots left will determine wich pole goes directly to the pump, a flat male spade conector fits in there and wire directly to the ms relay board
Another question what's up with the extra connectors on the relay board?

where is the wiring diagram for the relay board?
i can only find the diagram without the relay board








inj2 >>> side of injector 1 
inj2 >>> side of injector 2 
inj1 >>> side of injector 3 
inj1 >>> side of injector 4 
fp >>> + side of fuel pump
fidle >>> + of air solenoid to increase idle while warming up 
vref >>> one of the prongs of throttle position sensor ?
tps >>> one of the prongs of throttle position sensor
tps ret >> one of the prongs of throttle position sensor
tach >> - on the coil
mat >> any prong on the air temp sensor (not case ground style)
mat ret >> the remaining prongon the air temp sensor
clt >> any prong on the air temp sensor (not case ground style)
clt ret >> the remaining prong on the coolant air temp sensor
o2 >> signal from O2 sensor
Batt 12v >> + side of battery
Switched 12V >>+ side of coil
Engine GND >> - valve cover bolt
Injector + 12V" (to remaining prongs on injectors
( injectors, not-grounded-case sensors and vw fast idle soleinoids don't have polarity, right?)

and what's up with: 
s1
s2
s3
s4
s5
please feel free to correct, add or substract


_Modified by stevelangford at 11:22 PM 9-7-2003_


----------



## stroudcoheavy (Sep 21, 2002)

I haven't the foggiest idea what s1-5 are for.
I was wondering that myself earlier today.
About the fuel pump, I see no reason to even mess with it. It does not interface with the computer at all, as far as I know. I know it builds pressure when I put it on run, and stops when I turn it off. I'm planning on using an inertial cutoff switch from any recent Ford (my Focus has one) to cut off the pump in the event of a wreck. I don't think you have to do that if you use the relay board to power the pump, because it kills the power to the pump something like 1 sec, after the last injection event.
If you do decide to get rid of the stock relays, the two biggest spade connectors on the stock relay can be bridged to eliminate the relay.



_Modified by stroudcoheavy at 1:47 AM 9-8-2003_


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: (stroudcoheavy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stroudcoheavy* »_I haven't the foggiest idea what s1-5 are for.
I was wondering that myself earlier today.
About the fuel pump, I see no reason to even mess with it. It does not interface with the computer at all, as far as I know. I know it builds pressure when I put it on run, and stops when I turn it off. I'm planning on using an inertial cutoff switch from any recent Ford (my Focus has one) to cut off the pump in the event of a wreck. I don't think you have to do that if you use the relay board to power the pump, because it kills the power to the pump something like 1 sec, after the last injection event.
If you do decide to get rid of the stock relays, the two biggest spade connectors on the stock relay can be bridged to eliminate the relay.
_Modified by stroudcoheavy at 1:47 AM 9-8-2003_

yes the MS cuts the fuel pump when rpm=0 so is on when the engine is on or at least cranking
any one else have any idea on the s1-5 connectors?
and if all my assumptions above are right (connections)
by the way is the fidle + or -? in other words does it powers or grounds the air solenoid?


----------



## Haiku Master (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (stevelangford)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stevelangford* »_
by the way is the fidle + or -? in other words does it powers or grounds the air solenoid?

Judging from the above diagram, it is a pull-to-ground connection.


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: (Haiku Master)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Haiku Master* »_
Judging from the above diagram, it is a pull-to-ground connection. 

Yes, the problem is that they talk about ajumper on the relay borad to change from ground to +, but my relay board has no jumper, I guess I can follow the traces and see if it goes directly to the pin corresponding on the db37 the it would be a ground as you stated


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (stevelangford)*

Steve,
Here's a picture of the relay board:
http://www.bgsoflex.com/mspowe...e.jpg 
The jumper is between the 1st and 2nd relays. It is 3 holes, 2 of which are marked "V" and "G".

There's also a diagram with an explanation of jumpering either "V" or "G" under the heading "Fast Idle" on this page:
http://members.shaw.ca/megasquirt/manual/mwire.htm
Let me know what you figure out, I'm an electrical idiot!


_Modified by ijcameron at 8:23 AM 9-8-2003_


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: (ijcameron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ijcameron* »_Steve,
Here's a picture of the relay board:
http://www.bgsoflex.com/mspowe...e.jpg 
The jumper is between the 1st and 2nd relays. It is 3 holes, 2 of which are marked "V" and "G".

There's also a diagram with an explanation of jumpering either "V" or "G" under the heading "Fast Idle" on this page:
http://members.shaw.ca/megasquirt/manual/mwire.htm
Let me know what you figure out, I'm an electrical idiot!

_Modified by ijcameron at 8:23 AM 9-8-2003_

sure is, thanks


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: (stevelangford)*

keep'em coming http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## purplerabbit (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: (stevelangford)*

this post is great. After speaking with people in my city I've come to the conclusion that there are a handful of brilliant people in every city that happen to congragate at this website.
anyway. I would like to make one over the winter in time for spring. if anyone is doing a group buy or would like to give me more info please email me at [email protected]
thanks
Sandy
ps. I still have lots of reading to do before I order. but so far I don't see why I won't try it. what an acomplishment when it works. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (purplerabbit)*

There is no group buy anymore - they keep ample supplies of the boards etc in stock. When you are ready to order, visit this website:
http://www.bgsoflex.com/mspo1.html
They ship the stuff worldwide.
All of the information you will need to get going is on the website. I'd also suggest subscribing to the Yahoo Megasquirt message board - it will answer a lot of your questions.


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (ijcameron)*

Okay, I was a little hung up on the water temp sensors, but I now have 3 posible solutions:
1. The vacuum/temp sensor on the drivers side of the head that connects to 2 vacuum lines (one goes to the EGT valve, the other to the vacuum amplifier) and the existing VGO sensor that is in the same arehave the same size threads as the Bosch coolant temperature sensor. I could remove either of these and install the Bosch sensor.
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/...iew=t
2. The thermotime switch threads are a smaller diameter than the GM coolant temp sensor. I could easily tap out the threads to accept the larger GM sensor - there's plenty of meat on the "neck" to support this.


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (ijcameron)*

EDIT TO MY LAST POST:
I've just realized that the two sensors in the picture sit in "pockets" in the casting - that is they are not in direct contact with the coolant. 
QUESTION: Does this matter? I know it will make the coolant temp. sensor react more slowly, but isn't it's only function to turn the warm up enrichment on/off at 150F ? Does it perform any other functions that require it to be quicker reacting?


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (ijcameron)*

OKay, screw using the Bosch sensor.
My readings for sensor 026 906 161 / 0280 130 040 (taken from a 1988 VW Fox) are:
0 degrees C = 10.6K ohms
40 degrees C = 2.4K ohms
I can't find these data points on any of the Bosch coolant temp sensors listed here:
http://www.dainst.com/info/sensors/db/
I quit. I'm going with the standard GM sensors.


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (ijcameron)*

INJECTOR CUPS: 
The injector cups from a Digifant I car won't mount in the non-air shrouded solid lifter head (made pre-1984, cup size is 24 x 1.5mm), right? Does anyone have a part # for the 24 x 1.5mm injector cups? Does anyone have any experience grinding / boring out their CIS cups?


_Modified by ijcameron at 12:46 PM 9-13-2003_


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## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: (ijcameron)*

Don't worry about matching up with that list. Just plug the numbers you got into eztherm, and it will do the rest.
There are no digi inserts for the 24mm holes. Either switch to a digi or air-shrouded CIS head, or bore out your existing inserts. I used a big drill bit to get it most of the way, then a dremel. When you're done, there will be barely enough of the hex shape left to put them back in with your big hex key. Just test fit with your injectors until it works. Make sure you have new seals on them.
---edit---
I almost forgot...I think I had to cut the top of the insert down to the threads for the injector to fit. Depends on your injectors. Look at the very first picture on this page to see what I mean: http://not2fast.wryday.com/VAG/InjectorCup.html



_Modified by angusmf at 7:02 AM 9-14-2003_


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## stroudcoheavy (Sep 21, 2002)

*Re: (angusmf)*

Update, yesterday I found out that on CIS-E cars, you must have the CIS ECU plugged in in order for the fuel pump to come on. 
Sucks, I'm going to break mine apart and see if I can make a jumper to make the pump work without an extra box in my rain tray.


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## Ricestalker (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Anyone feel like taking over my Megasquirt project?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1029005


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## joelmahoney (Feb 20, 2002)

*Re: (stroudcoheavy)*

stroud...
My cabby has the complete wiring from an '87 GTI 16v. The CIS-E box has been removed. tapping the KE harness connector to get the ignition +12v to turn on the MS. otherwise the KE brain harness is empty. my stock knock sensor ignition is entirely responsible for turning on the fuel pump relay. 
the ignition and tach (and Fuel Pump Relay) are all stock. triggering MS from coil. YMMV.


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: (joelmahoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joelmahoney* »_stroud...
My cabby has the complete wiring from an '87 GTI 16v. The CIS-E box has been removed. tapping the KE harness connector to get the ignition +12v to turn on the MS. otherwise the KE brain harness is empty. my stock knock sensor ignition is entirely responsible for turning on the fuel pump relay. 
the ignition and tach (and Fuel Pump Relay) are all stock. triggering MS from coil. YMMV.

are you getting a good signal from the coil?


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## joelmahoney (Feb 20, 2002)

*Re: (stevelangford)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stevelangford* »_
are you getting a good signal from the coil?

fairly good, a few jumps to 11 or 12 grand here and there








I sure hope that cutting the john zener jumper and/or playing w/ Ed Cap values will improve things. (fingers crossed)


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## jhillyer (Feb 17, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

Very cool. 
I've wanted aftermarket chippers like GIAC to expose a programming interface via the OBD II. Then stock ECU + aftermarket assembly could be easily and stealthily accessed without add-on harnesses, dedicated piggybacks, and other visible mods. Going further, one could program the fuel computer to display on the stock dot-matrix dashboard, and offer preset selections, even re-mapping, using the steering-column wand. Get the specs and I'd help design.


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (jhillyer)*

Not supposed to connect the relay board to the ms board because stress but I made a custom enclosure that holds everything together, it makes wiring almost too easy, seems to work really good, anybody doing this also?
I'm using the fidle (fast idle solenoid) that came stock in my cabriolet, one for cold starts and one for my a/c (to compensate idle drop) is this necesary? (I'm talking about hte a/c one) or will the ms compensate for that based on rpm?
is someone using a tps from an automatic corrado? I will check ressistance but I figured if someone else already did this can tell me which pin is which


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## Rusto GTI (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stevelangford* »_ Is someone using a tps from an automatic corrado? I will check ressistance but I figured if someone else already did this can tell me which pin is which

I am also wondering which TPS people out there are going with on this setup? If the corrado tps is a potentiometer and not switches it should work, from what I gathered from the mega faq and manual, it sounds like any tps will work so long as the resistance goes up as the throttle opens. IIRC
Rusto


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## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Rusto GTI)*

Yes, the automatic Corrado TPS is a real potentiometer. I haven't checked out which wire is which, but the MS assembly guide tells you how to figure out which is which.
Is your Cabby CIS or Digi, Steve? What kind of fast idle valve does it have? If it has the kind that just closes as it gets warm (either from your manifold eventually heating up or from the heating element inside that is supposed to get constant +12v when the engine is running) then you don't need to do anything. Just leave the fIdle wire from the megasquirt unconnected. Or switch to the squirt'n'spark code and use it for that. When that valve increases your RPM, MS reads the changed MAP and rpm just like when you open the throttle and gives the correct amount of fuel.


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *angusmf* »_Yes, the automatic Corrado TPS is a real potentiometer. I haven't checked out which wire is which, but the MS assembly guide tells you how to figure out which is which.
Is your Cabby CIS or Digi, Steve? What kind of fast idle valve does it have? If it has the kind that just closes as it gets warm (either from your manifold eventually heating up or from the heating element inside that is supposed to get constant +12v when the engine is running) then you don't need to do anything. Just leave the fIdle wire from the megasquirt unconnected. Or switch to the squirt'n'spark code and use it for that. When that valve increases your RPM, MS reads the changed MAP and rpm just like when you open the throttle and gives the correct amount of fuel.

I figured the 3 pins in the corrado tps already, was easy as said in the ms website
My car was CIS but I'm not using the airvalve because I have a corrado g60 intake manifold so I'm using the ones that open and close to let more air in. that should work as you said.


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

are my corrado injectors hig or low impedance?


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

High impedance.


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

I'm still not entirely clear on which airvalve you have. Basically, if it has two wires, you just hook it up to switched +12. If it's 3 or more wires, its a stepper motor type. Stock megasquirt will not run those. There is a code mod (RV8A developed by Per Anderson) that will work some bosch stepper valves, but it didn't work with the valve I got from a 16v Scirocco. Those things are tricky. Best to use the 2 conductor type or nothing at all IMHO.


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *angusmf* »_I'm still not entirely clear on which airvalve you have. Basically, if it has two wires, you just hook it up to switched +12. If it's 3 or more wires, its a stepper motor type. Stock megasquirt will not run those. There is a code mod (RV8A developed by Per Anderson) that will work some bosch stepper valves, but it didn't work with the valve I got from a 16v Scirocco. Those things are tricky. Best to use the 2 conductor type or nothing at all IMHO.

No, is the simple open/close valves found on A1 cars, when you feed 12v it opens and lets additional air into the intake manifold to increase idle, the question I had is this:
I have two solenoids like the one I just described, one will be controlled by the 12v fidle connector from the relay board and will increase idle when cold, the question is do I need the second one for my a/c? because the a/c compressor puts extra load on the motor and rpm's drop about 200 rpm, will the ms sense the idle drop and increase idle on it;s own? (I don't think so but anyway.

The other question is this, when I connected the solenoid I was going to connect the hoses this way:
hose form solenoid to intake
the other hose to my intercooler pipes
but now that it think about it I don't think is necesary to connect the hose to the intercooler pipes because is not metered air anyway (as it was with my cis sytem, where the air was mettered by the airflow plate at the beginning) so preety much it can suck air from the atmosphere and feed in to the intake manifold
Does it make sense?
or maybe not from the atmosphere but from my valve cover (crankcase ventilation) so it circulates some of those fumes. I'm trying to avoid perforating and welding my intercooler pipes


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## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Since MS is MAP based, it really doesn't matter if there is air drawn out of the system various places for vaccuum devices and whatnot. All it really cares about is the vac in the manifold (whatever the valves see.)
I've never seen an air valve like you describe on an A1. Or maybe I just don't recognize it. None of mine have had AC. In any case, it won't hurt to keep whatever you have to bump the idle when the AC comes on. MS doesn't care how the air gets to the engine (thru the TB, bypasses, vac leaks.) It will just give you the right amount of fuel for the air you've got.


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## Ricestalker (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

I'm selling an assembled and tested Megasquirt including the relay board and Megastim testing unit for $250. Another $150 and I'll Include the Panasonic laptop (166mhz) I bought to tune it.
Chet


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Ricestalker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ricestalker* »_I'm selling an assembled and tested Megasquirt including the relay board and Megastim testing unit for $250. Another $150 and I'll Include the Panasonic laptop (166mhz) I bought to tune it.
Chet

that sounds like a good deal!


----------



## joelmahoney (Feb 20, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stevelangford* »_
... so preety much it can suck air from the atmosphere and feed in to the intake manifold
Does it make sense?


yes, will work fine on NA motor. 
but a boosted motor will leak boost http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
(or pressurize your crankcase in your second scenario) http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
thats the way my idle is running right now but i'm not boosted yet.


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (joelmahoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joelmahoney* »_
yes, will work fine on NA motor. 
but a boosted motor will leak boost http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
(or pressurize your crankcase in your second scenario) http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
thats the way my idle is running right now but i'm not boosted yet.

I thought about that and install a check valve in-line so it can only suck and not blow. 

I got the car running!


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

I got the car running but I need some help on tuning with megatune, please look at the following screen and see if I'm way off on the settings, remember that my engine is a 1.8l (109 cubic inch displacement) turbo, 30lb injectors
















thanks for any prompt response


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

got car running, a few notes:
got it to idle and accelerate real good
sometimes it will sputter (specially if I turn some accesories on) so my guess is the + side of the coil was a bad idea for switched 12v
the req fuel calculated gives me a req value of 9.5 or so, but it runs too rich with that setting, I'm assuming that is due to my 3.5 fpr
so I'm using 8.5 and still running above stoich (average .7 to .8 volts from O2 sensor)
thanks guys, please provide any advice 
what's your guys req. fuel and can you guys give some pointers on enrichments page?
when cranking from cold it has difficulty staying running, but I think I fixed that. but we'll see once I try tomorrow


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## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

I don't know how you have your injectors wired, but I would set Injections per engine cycle to 2 and Injector staging to simultaneous. With your current settings you're firing each bank once every two crank revolutions. That means two of the cylinders (one from each bank) are getting their injection at a very non-optimum time. The fuel is just sitting in the port settling out of the air stream. The other settings look about right.
Keep in mind you need to tune the VE table first. Get the engine started and warmed up any way you can. Tune the VE table, then work on the enrichments.
So, where's your VE table?
Show us your VE table. 
One other point. Are your injectors high or low impedance? You're current setting are for high impedance.

_Modified by J. Daniel at 10:58 AM 9-30-2003_


_Modified by J. Daniel at 11:01 AM 9-30-2003_


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Doesn't really matter what your req fuel is if it's running right.
The sputter could be a bad reading on the O2 sensor. I've noticed with all my old VWs that have 1 wire sensors that the idle changes (sometimes better, somtimes worse, depending on the car) when my rad fan or headlights come on. Unfortunately I'm not an electrical engineer, so I don't entirely understand this. My theory, however, is that the extra load changes the reference to which the computer (jetronic, Megasquirt, whatever) is comparing the O2 signal. If you watch the sensor output either in Megatune or with a digital voltmeter, you may see the signal change by about a tenth of a volt just from turning on your headlights. A better ground may help. A 4 wire (separate ground run to the MS) O2 sensor may help. I've never gotten around to trying it.


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

I will post my entire settings and table, tell me more about the 2 or 1 squirts per cycle and does it affect dramatically


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

The number of squirts and wether you do alternating or simultaneous is not that big of a deal. At high revs, you won't even notice a difference. High number of squirts may give you a better idle, but lower number will be better when you're trying to squeeze every last drop of fuel from injectors that are a little too small. That's because it takes a little time to open and close the injectors each time, and that eats into your available open time.
So play with it and see if it affects your idle quality. Once you have it good, go out and make sure it doesn't run lean when you jump on it!


----------



## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

The difference between 1 squirt/cycle and alternating vs. 2 squirt/cycle and simultaneous is tough to describe.
You can change the between these setups though without altering your fuel a huge amount (Megasquirt alters Req Fuel as required depending on your settings), so it allows you to see which will give the best idle. It's worth a try.
On another note: if you change Req Fuel you'll have to change the entries in the VE table to compensate. So, although it doesn't matter in an absolute sense what Req Fuel is set to, it makes sense to set it to the calculated value and change the VE table entries to tune your engine.


----------



## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *angusmf* »_The number of squirts and wether you do alternating or simultaneous is not that big of a deal. At high revs, you won't even notice a difference. High number of squirts may give you a better idle, but lower number will be better when you're trying to squeeze every last drop of fuel from injectors that are a little too small. That's because it takes a little time to open and close the injectors each time, and that eats into your available open time.
So play with it and see if it affects your idle quality. Once you have it good, go out and make sure it doesn't run lean when you jump on it!

Yes, it's principally an idle quality vs. max fuel delivery issue.
As far as injector sizing you need to be monitoring injector duty cycle. You should set the VE table to get the A/F ratio you want and as you get into the higher load and RPM areas of the VE table (turning up the boost) you need to be watching your injector duty cycle and make sure it stays below ~85%.
If your engines running lean increase your VE. Once the duty cycle get over 85% increase your injector size.


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (J. Daniel)*

I already have kinda big injectors deka (supposed to be 30-32 lbs) so they are bigger even that corrado g60 ones) also Have a 3.5 fuel pressure regulator so really I'm good to 250 hp, car accelerates like there's no tomorrow when not under load, I will try a few runs see what happens, the way I have it setup right now, it stays cool and my air/fuel ratio gauge gives me about .75- .8 volts (richer than stoich) but again that is not under load, we'll see, I will try changing to 2 squirts see if the voltage variation on the electrical system affects less my idle quality.
Another question: there is an entry for voltage correction on the injectors setup like at .2v what's up with that? do I need to change or leave it
also on the table once I get the correct reqfuel setup I mcan just scale the table and take it from there for further tuning right?
thanks guys for this great help


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Regarding the reqfuel and VE map, I'd stop worrying about the relationship between those two at this point and just start tuning the VE map. Reqfuel just has to be close-ish. As long as the car starts, it's fine. But yeah, if you do all your tuning, then change reqfuel, you'll have to scale the VE table. The only good reason you have to change reqfuel at this point, though, is if you change injectors or FPRs or something.


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

ok here's the deal, first here is the table at the moment, I havent change anything on it it was generated by itself, I have not tune the table because I don't know exactly how, so need help there...








sorry big image
I tried the 2 squirst, alternating and simultaneous, and it runs bad so changed that back to 1 squirt simultaneus and runs better
car runs ok except for the rough idle it stalls sometimes and the rpms jump like crazy from 800 to 3000 then to 1000 then to 10000 etc. the question is this I'm I getting a crappy tach signal from the coil?, if I rev the engine over 1200 rpm everything gets smooth and no tach rpm jumping, or is not the signal from the coil causing this but a product of the stalling? (rpm signal jumping up and down because car is trying to stay alive)
so this is according to what I have been learning from you guys what I need to do:
set the reqfuel to the calculated 9.5
tune the table (where do I start?)
thanks again for the help
Last question (for now







) with the high impedance injectors I don't need to set the opening time right? or I'm missing the point?


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stevelangford* »_tune the table (where do I start?)

Oh boy,....if you haven't seen this, you'll love it!!
http://members.shaw.ca/megasqu...e.htm


----------



## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

First off you need to set the MAP bins to suit your engine. Right now your VE table is set for an NA engine.
So, how much boost do you intend to run? If your running 15 psi then the bottom MAP bin should be 200. If your only running 7 psi then the bottom bin should be 150. The rest of the bins should be evenly space between the high value and ~30.
Try 30, 50, 70, 80, 100, 120, 140, 160
or 30, 55, 80, 105, 130, 155, 180, 205
depending on how much boost you intend to run.
Also, your RPM bins max out at 5200. Good for a Chevy maybe. Some good numbers for the RPM bins would be;
500, 1000, 1500, 2500, 3500, 5000, 6000, 7000
Once you've got that set, start your car and let it get up to temperature.
(BTW, you need to fix your erratic tach signal first before doing any tuning!)
I'm assuming you have a relatively mild cam so your car should be happy idling at stoichiometric. If this is the case set your EGO activation RPM to 500.
Then open the tuning screen. You'll see the dot indicating current RPM and MAP. Adjust the VE values around were the dot is until the O2 sensor reading is close to .5V. You will need to change several map points simultaneously. You want the values in the VE table to increase or decrease evenly from point to point. Using the 3D view you don't want a bumpy table.
Another approach is to adjust the VE values so the EGO correction is close to zero. Once you have the values set for idle you can start to move to other areas of the table. As an example, with no load just increase RPM and start setting the higher RPM low load values. Next start driving the car. (you need a friend at this point!) Try to hold the load and RPM constant as close to a specific bin location as you can and again adjust the value up or down for minimum EGO correction.
For the higher load value, (remembering that EGO correction is turned off over ~70% throttle) you will need to apply throttle and make sure the EGO readout (green and red dots) is well into the rich range. If it is not immediately get off the throttle and adjust the VE values higher in the RPM load range you were operating. Then try applying throttle again.
Basically, you start with setting the idle VE entries and slowly expand into the other areas of the VE table constantly monitoring your EGO.
You should strive for .5V EGO for all points on the table below 100 MAP and ~5000 RPM. Above those points you should be in the .8-.9V range.
Injector open time should be around 1 msec, unless you have info specifically for your injector.
Battery voltage correction should be around .1 msec/V.
The reason I asked about high or low impedance is low impedance needs PWM current limit and time threshold set. Your settings are good for high impedance injectors.
Your injectors will support ~200 HP with a duty cycle of .8 and a BSFC of .5. They're not huge, but they're big enough for initial tuning.
One last point. While you're doing your initial VE table tuning, move the throttle slowly to minimize acceleration enrichments. Once you get the VE table roughed in you can mess with the accel enrichments. It's a trial and error deal as are the cold start and warmup bins.
Good luck


----------



## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (PowerDubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PowerDubs* »_
Oh boy,....if you haven't seen this, you'll love it!!
http://members.shaw.ca/megasqu...e.htm

That is a really cool tool!
I didn't see it mentioned on that site, but I'm sure it assumes Req Fuel is set to the calculated value.


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Steve,
The tach spikes make it sound like you're not running the new code. You need to flash the chip with the new 3.0 version. That should fix up your idle because it will give MS an accurate tach signal. If it still doesn't work, look up the "Dave Cap" on the MS list and try that.


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

great reply j. daniel thanks a lot I'll let you know how it goes. thanks for the link power It generated a very different table, I'll load it and see...

_Quote, originally posted by *angusmf* »_Steve,
The tach spikes make it sound like you're not running the new code. You need to flash the chip with the new 3.0 version. That should fix up your idle because it will give MS an accurate tach signal. If it still doesn't work, look up the "Dave Cap" on the MS list and try that.

angusmf: How do I flash the chip and where do I find the 3.0 file?
thanks to all


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Steve,
I flashed my chip just last night. There are a few ways to do it, but I used the latest Easytherm program, available from the files section of the Yahoo MS message board. 
Easytherm is designed to change the resistor values for your coolant and temp sensors, but it will also flash the latest version of the code (V3.0).
It took me a while to figure it out, I kept getting error codes from the Easytherm software. If you have this problem, read the wordpad file that comes with the Easytherm download. You will need to add some ActiveX code to your system registry. The wordpad file explains what to do.
So, if you have the Version 2.2 board, here's what you do:
1. Find the 2 holes marked "BOOT" on the circuit board and jumper them (one is a square, the other is a circle).
2. Power up your Megasquirt, with the stimulator, or from your car's 12V, hook it up to your serial cable.
3. Select "DOWNLOAD" at the bottom of the Easytherm page. 
4. This will open a window - select the file at the top - Megasquirt.s19
That should be it.


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

woops, double post.


_Modified by ijcameron at 8:23 AM 10-1-2003_


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ijcameron* »_Steve,
I flashed my chip just last night. There are a few ways to do it, but I used the latest Easytherm program, available from the files section of the Yahoo MS message board. 
Easytherm is designed to change the resistor values for your coolant and temp sensors, but it will also flash the latest version of the code (V3.0).
It took me a while to figure it out, I kept getting error codes from the Easytherm software. If you have this problem, read the wordpad file that comes with the Easytherm download. You will need to add some ActiveX code to your system registry. The wordpad file explains what to do.
So, if you have the Version 2.2 board, here's what you do:
1. Find the 2 holes marked "BOOT" on the circuit board and jumper them (one is a square, the other is a circle).
2. Power up your Megasquirt, with the stimulator, or from your car's 12V, hook it up to your serial cable.
3. Select "DOWNLOAD" at the bottom of the Easytherm page. 
4. This will open a window - select the file at the top - Megasquirt.s19
That should be it.

great! Thanks again


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Ok I flashed my ms (with a lot of trouble first using download, then easy as cake using easytherm, went thru perfect and also changed my ve table, now the car runs a little rich (a lot better than running lean as it was) but the idle still crappy which tells me that I need to get my tach signal from hall sensor, what do you guys are doing to correct that problem
also someone with a tuned 1.8 turbo or corrado g60 has a table we can hack?
still in the learning curve, please talk to me about tuning


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Also what hp and torque and at what rpm would be typical to enter in the ve table generator link provided a few posts above? 1.8 8v garret t3 turbo 30 lbs injectors 18 lbs of boost max 
I ask because the values I figure my engine puts out return an error on the page


----------



## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

First I seriously doubt that 30 lb injectors will support 18 psi boost.
I'd enter
1000 idle speed
20 idle vacuum
7000 redline
225Hp @ 5500
225 T @ 3500
1.8 L
12 psi boost
That should get you started.
You're still going to need to adjust the values in the VE table once you get it running. There's no reason your idle shouldn't be as good as it was with CIS, unless you made some fundamental error changing over to MS.
No sense bitching about how the idle isn't any good if you haven't tuned the VE values for idle.


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Run a datalog and see if you are actually get tach spikes before you assume you need to do something else with the trigger. All I had to do was run a wire from the - terminal on the coil and upgrade to the newer code.
Make sure you turn off O2 correction somewhere above your idle speed. My car did not like to idle at stoich. I had to make it a wee bit rich.


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

Cool will do. will keep posted


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## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Got it running beautifuly!








After all tweaking and counting with the great help from all of you guys participating in the thread, everything is cool.
I will post the table I'm running
But the best fix was getting a good tach signal, it makes all the difference
So if you are ok with the coil hook up that's cool, but if you can get the best filtered signal why not
green/white wire coming out of the stock(in my case) ignition module, it goes from there to the dist (hall sensor)
Did a couple of runs, running stoich and rich thru the power band, bursted my 2" to 3" throtle body rubber coupler, need to get me a silicon one








Anyway if someone needs some help from my recent and limited experience go ahead and ask
I will be posting some pics
Thanks Again


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

I'm using a Passat 16v Automatic TB on my Rabbit. I need to swap out 
the Passat linkage for the Rabbit one, but it doesn't fit. I've 
ground / filed out the center hole to mount it, but the arm that 
triggers the secondary butterfly is too short. Did every one else 
just bend it to fit?
Are there any other solutions, like getting a different accelerator 
cable that fits the Passat TB?


----------



## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

I welded the outer part (with the ball) of the original linkage to the inner part (pivot side) of the Passat TB linkage.
I don't think you can use the later style throttle cable cause the part that holds the cable sheath on the valve cover is in the wrong place.


----------



## pele (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (J. Daniel)*

anyone running ms on a 1.8 16v in here?


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (pele)*

Not that I know of. Why? If you were thinking of swapping VE maps, don't bother. It's so easy to tune, and there are so many things that can make your map different from the next guy's map, it isn't worth it. If you just need to know how to do the hardware part, ask away. It's pretty much the same as any other standalone setup, or digi swap. You need a custom fuel rail and a TPS.


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

I'm running the corrrado with tps and only had to swap the upper portion of the tb linkage to make it work


----------



## pele (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *angusmf* »_Not that I know of. Why? If you were thinking of swapping VE maps, don't bother. It's so easy to tune, and there are so many things that can make your map different from the next guy's map, it isn't worth it. If you just need to know how to do the hardware part, ask away. It's pretty much the same as any other standalone setup, or digi swap. You need a custom fuel rail and a TPS.

was this to me? no im thinking of ordering really soon but im just trying to make sure i know exactly what else i will need besides the megasquirt parts, i just pulled a motor out of my golf and im thinking maybe i can afford to grab the ms stuff and whatever else i need and go right to ms while im swapping in my 16v
i dont know if this will just make it harder for me (troubleshooting 2things at once?)
either way i need to find out exactly what i need, seems like info is all over the place, which is the most updated manual because i want to hit up school and print it out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
thanks alot


----------



## pele (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (pele)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## stroudcoheavy (Sep 21, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (pele)*

I've got MS running on my 1.8l 16v.
It's not permenantly installed, but I drove it around the block.
Just buy a Passat AT TB, and an RMR Fuel rail. 
Mine's out of commission due to a a broken FPR that is shooting gas all over my engine compartment at random intervals.


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stroudcoheavy)*

Congrats, Chris. I'm about 2 weeks behind on the MS list, so if you posted a sucess story there, I missed it. Interested to see how things go when you get that FPR sorted.


----------



## stroudcoheavy (Sep 21, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

I've also fallen behind the yahoo list.
This was running and driving with the relay board and ECU hardwired together, sitting in my lap. I need to get it all sorted, pretty and fast now.
The FPR was a a HUGE screwup on my part, I was unscrewing one of the temp sensors from the head, and my ratchet handle smacked the FPR and bent it out of shape.


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stroudcoheavy)*

You still have what, 6 months? Should be no problem! Hopefully I'll make it out there as a spectator. I have lots of cars to see.


----------



## stroudcoheavy (Sep 21, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

Run the Jetta, at least I won't be the only person running an A2 that way.


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stroudcoheavy)*

LOL. Corey got you scared there won't be any VWs you can beat?







I probably would bring it if I lived on the east coast, but I really can't take 2 weeks off work to drive it out there and back.


----------



## stroudcoheavy (Sep 21, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

Yes, he does.
To keep this on topic, I had an idea about NOS activation and MS.
Would it be possible to tie a nitrous solenoid to the Acceleration enrichment LED? It comes on when you floor it and stays on as long as you are at WOT, right?
I'm assuming that I would have to relay it since the LED is pretty low voltage.


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stroudcoheavy)*

Well, the problem is, you don't have to floor it for the accel enrichment to come on. I believe it lights whenever any accel shot is added, which is pretty much any time you tip in the throttle. Why not just use one of the extra outputs? Should be a really trivial piece of code to add. Just ask on the MS list, and I bet someone will give you a snippet. What are you going to do for extra fuel? Have the same output open a fuel solenoid or extra injector? If you figured out how much fuel you needed with a reasonable margin of safety (bottle pressure changes depending on temperature) you could probably add a little more code to have MS dump extra fuel when you go WOT. You'd need a way to disable it when the nitrous isn't armed though, or you'd run very rich whenever you go WOT. There are extra inputs on the MS too, if I'm not mistaken...


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

And if you get really excited, why not have a little switch that leaves it disabled in first and maybe second gear? If you wanted to invest in 2 solenoids and 2 nozzles, you could even have a staged setup so that the second solenoid doesn't open til a certain RPM in the lower gears. This would let you run a pretty large total shot with less wheelspin and tranny breakage worries.
Have you looked at the flatshift and launch control code Eric F added to DT? That could also save you some precious time on the strip.


----------



## stroudcoheavy (Sep 21, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

I was thinking about using the same input to activate the warmup injector. Logically, a larger engine would have a bigger warmup injector, so one off of a 6cyl volvo would do the job. I would rather run it off of the same circuit as the n2o solenoid so when I run at WOT with the bottle unhooked, I won't be getting too much fuel.


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stroudcoheavy)*

Cant belive i didnt see this thread until now.
I was one of the first people to have MegasquirtNSpark running and i think the first to have it running on a VW engine.
It runs great btw.. Wont pass emissions but i think that may have something to do with my cam and lack of catalytic converter =P
I'm sure lots of people saw my ITB homebrew posts in the 8V tech and mk1 forums if they read em.
If not
I'm not forced induction but i am running MS and know all about tuning it.. 
Specs on my engine are 1.8L 8V 12:1 CR, Suzuki GSXR750 ITB's, Corrado G60 fuel rail and balanced injectors. TT 288deg cam, balanced bottom end, custom tranny w 4.53:1 R&P, 2.5" exhaust all the way back from the supersprint header <mandrel bent>
I noticed the pics at the beginning of the thread of MS hooked up to a laptop are actually of Nigels MS that i helped build







, built his and mine at the same time. 
N'ways if anyones got questions about tuning let me know.
I can post pics of sensor mounts etc as well if anyone needs ideas.
I'm about to upgrade to the MSnS v3 code in a day or two and i'll let people know how it runs <its the MS V3 code as well as some extra MSnS additions like two adjustable triggered outputs, ie shift light, nitrous, etc, as well as an RPM limiter>
I'm likely going to convert from MSnS back to MS and use MegaJoltJunior and the ford EDIS crank triggered setup since i'm seeing about 3-4deg's of spark jitter at idle. It should give a little more accurate spark as well as a stronger spark since there is no dizzy.
Dave


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

show your table! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Sure i'll post it in a bit.. ITs gonna look very different than any turbo engine








basically low VE <~30> until 4000rpm then it kicks up to 80-110 VE
I still need to tune my MAP bins and elimitate the ones below 50KPA to give me more range in the middle.
ps in case you didnt know steve.. its Dave.. <[email protected]> who you were emailing about your maps off the MS list







and suggested you switch to simultaneous squirts with the injector wiring etc you have.. Hows your car running these days?



_Modified by CdnDub at 8:29 PM 10-14-2003_


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

Aww, I thought you'd be pioneering a Megasquirt'n'EDIS install.


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

Its tempting.. I've been to busy to follow the lists as much lately and i'm not even sure what the status of MSnEDIS is lately.. i know its working on a few peoples cars and i'd be tempted to go that route instead if it has the functionality i need <one less box to mount in my car..
Has anyone tried mounting EDIS on their VW? I'm wondering how the trigger wheel mounts up.. wish i had time to get to a wrecker and pick up some parts.


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

after lots of experimenting this is my table, now it idles nice an lean and does not sputters or leans under boost, I still need to tune it a little more but I'm very happy with the ability to change things on the fly
EVEME 1.0
UserRev: 1.00
UserComment: 
Date: 10-14-2003
Time: 17:25
Page 0
VE Table RPM Range [ 8]
[ 0] = 9
[ 1] = 14
[ 2] = 23
[ 3] = 33
[ 4] = 42
[ 5] = 51
[ 6] = 61
[ 7] = 70
VE Table Load Range (MAP) [ 8]
[ 0] = 35
[ 1] = 55
[ 2] = 75
[ 3] = 100
[ 4] = 120
[ 5] = 140
[ 6] = 160
[ 7] = 185
VE Table [ 8][ 8]
[ 0] [ 1] [ 2] [ 3] [ 4] [ 5] [ 6] [ 7]
[ 0] = 40 48 50 52 53 53 52 51
[ 1] = 52 60 62 64 66 66 65 64
[ 2] = 62 72 75 77 78 79 78 77
[ 3] = 78 82 85 88 89 90 89 87
[ 4] = 87 93 97 100 102 103 102 100
[ 5] = 100 105 110 113 115 115 115 113
[ 6] = 113 117 122 126 128 128 128 125
[ 7] = 124 129 134 138 141 141 140 138
this is based on a jh engine 1.8 8v turbo 30lbs deka injectors and
3.5 bar fpr (for sustaining the 18-18 lbs of boost)
the initial table that the table generator did was ver very rich for me because my increased fuel pressure my injectors were putting prob the equivalent of maybe 36 pounders or more. so my req. fuel was off


_Modified by stevelangford at 5:40 PM 10-14-2003_


----------



## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

Did you ever get a dyno run of your engine?
Also, have done any running with a WB-O2? MS is very easy to tune generally speaking, but at WOT the NB-O2 just isn't worth a damn.
And last, but not least, did you do any experiments with changing the location of you IAT or ducting you inlets to the hood vent?
Just curious about your status and how much power those ITB's make since I just did some impulse buying and picked up the same ITB's on ebay.


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (J. Daniel)*

I'm about to find out how much power the motor makes since i've signed up for a local dyno day at kinetic motorsports. I was going to go anyways and pay for a few hours on the dyno for tuning but this is a cheap way to get me some baselines.
Should be early november.. and nope i havnt had time to play with ducting the intake properly or moving the IAT sensor <which i'm quite sure was heat soaking in the summer>.. I can probably get by without doing any of that over the winter since ambient air temps are much lower and will likely cool things off quite a bit under the hood.
I'm not running a WB-02, i'm waiting for UltraMegaSquirt and i've got my VW 5 wire oxy sitting in a box on my shelf waiting for it. if it doesnt come out soon enuf i'll order a new techedge or one of the alternatives.


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

Since I haven't played with this yet, and I am coming from CIS-M...I have a question.
Does it matter if the vaccum line for the MAP is hooked up before or after the butterflys? My TB has a port on the back that I would like to use for this.
Thanks


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (PowerDubs)*

Has to be from the manifold. The port on your TB is no good for this if it comes from upstream of the throttle plate. Not to be a smartass, but MAP stands for Manifold Absolute Pressure..


----------



## vwrabbit (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

Quick question for the MSnSpark, the only difference then is the code that is running? So my V2.2 board will work fine?
I've had my board for a while w/o any of the chips, connectors, etc. Need to order those and get this thing built. I'm going to be picking up a Caddy w/a JH swap and would love to run the MS in it w/a mildly boosted turbo setup.


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (vwrabbit)*

angusmf.. the port on the TB may be manifold vacuum depending on the TB.. 
He should check and have a look to see where the port is <before or after your throttle plate> as long as its after you can use it.
And the question about MSnS is yes it runs fine on a V2.2 MS board all you need to do is load the software and figure out how your going to get it a tach input so it can fire spark. I'm driving my Hall sensor right off my MS board and then the output from that goes into the stock ignition module to fire spark. Works really well and the signal is nice and clean. That however did require soldering up some extra connections and bypassing others on the MS board.. its well documented on the Megaspark site for hooking up a Hall sensor to megaspark.
I think you guys are right tho i should try MSnEDIS rather than MJLj and Stock MS.. seems like a good way to go.
Probably the wrong place to ask but does anyone here know what cars in North America Came with EDIS-4 systems that i could scavange?


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

I'm pretty sure that poirt is upstream of the plate, but I was careful to say "if".








From what I recall, any early 90s Ford 4cyl (escort, tempo, ranger, aspire?) is a candidate. I also seem to remember folks saying that the module is clearly marked as EDIS-4, so it shouldn't be hard to find.
It's probably risky to infer too much from the Lance's UMS page, but it looks like the only distributorless option will be EDIS. I guess I better pick up some parts too, unless I want to keep the nasty 16v distributor. If I go to the pull-a-part before you do and find something, I'll report back.


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

Yeah let me know..
From what i understand the trigger wheels and sensors were all the same on all the EDIS installs.. so you could find an EDIS-4/6/8 and they'd all work then you just need an EDIS-4 module.
I think i'll find a wrecker edis module, wheel and sensor and then buy a new Accel or MSD EDIS-4 high output coilpack to give me some extra juice.
Next up is figuring out how to get rid of the dizzy.. i know i could go to a 16V oil pump but that seems stupid considering i just put a brand new oil pump in my block. wondering if i could chop down a dizzy..
Dave


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

Put an LED on the rotor and use a stock module to fire it off as it spins. Then get a cheap clear distributor cap from an aircooled VW shop to put over it. Or maybe you can make fake plug wires out of fiber optic cabling. Bling bling!


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

Haha.. thats the best idea i've heard so far.
Next i'll get a whistle tip for my exhaust so i can have that turbo sound..


----------



## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

Can u put a Megasquirt map in a TEC 2? I was looking and both systems use a .bin file so I thought it was interesting. Its just a thought.


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (tyrone27)*

Nope


----------



## CorradoAbaTurbo (Aug 30, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

Here's my setup:
1993 2.0l crossflow engine and head
very nice porting job on head
276 TT cam and springs
Dual ABA throttle bodies
supershort intake manifold
Stock 1993 19lb ABA injectors
10.1 c.r
Eurosport race header-no cat
2 1/4" exhaust 1 resonator 1 muffler
3.94 tranny
Currently I'm running a 150hp 140 tq VE map. I am clueless about what numbers to put in the constants screen and enrichments screen. I am not sure about the injector timing either. Some recommendations would be greatly apreciated.








BTW and part throttle the engine makes a popping sound? too lean?


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CorradoAbaTurbo)*

Could be lean. 19lb injectors are only good to about 130-135 HP.
Did you set your req-fuel? What constants are you having trouble with? I assume you got it set for 4 cyl, 4 stroke, etc?


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

I'm actually starting to think my 24lb G60 injectors may not be big enough to support the HP i want to make with my car.
at least not at less than 100% duty cycle. what do you guys think.. 24lb injectors.. 3bar Digi FPR, guestimate on engine output is ~170hp.. i know my Corrado g60 made ~190hp with the same style injector but i also installed a porsche 944 3.5bar FPR.. 
MS is indicating lean at WOT i've richening things up up to VE's of 116% at 6000rpm and it still shows slightly lean. For max power i think i'd want to be slightly rich.
on the other hand i'm not hearning any detonation/pinging and i've got 34deg max advance with 12:1 compression. if i were actually lean i think it would be detonating dont you?
It makes mad power up top but reads lean.. anyone else see symptoms like this?


_Modified by CdnDub at 9:19 PM 10-16-2003_


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

Here's a decent injector calc http://rceng.com/technical.htm#WORKSHEET
For tuning up high, I think you want to be running rich at WOT, something like 12.5:1 A/F


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

CorradoABATurbo.. those 19lb injectors are not going to work for you.. at least not at 3bar fuel pressure.. you could up the pressure to 4bar and use them making sure you recalulated your required fuel.
Angus is right your going to run lean after 130hp or so..


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

Might not ping just from being lean. Depends how lean. If it feels good, it's probably ok. A high compression NA motor shouldn't need a very rich mix. You might get a little more power if you had more fuel at the top end though. Is it lean anytime you go to WOT, or just at high RPM/low MAP?
24 lbs is right on the hairy edge for 170 hp at 80% duty cycle. If you still have that 3.5 FPR, It should put you right where you want to be. I'd try intalling it and see if MS still says it's lean. What are your constants set for? Simultaneous or alternating? Number of squirts? If you're opening and closing the injectors a lot, you could be eating up precious open time.


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

Just goes lean at higher rpm low map <ie WOT> but we're talking like after 5500.. 
I'd have to datalog some more i'm just going off memory at this point.
Its definitely lean.. before it was dropping off the bottom of the Oxy display meaning way lean.. now its just below Stoich.. but i'd think i'd want it just above stoich.. i guess the issue could be that the exhaust is so hot the cheapie sensor isnt reading properly.
I did notice adding more fuel without more spark was losing power so maybe its ok?
I knew for sure i was quite lean up top with VE entries of 80-95% up top with required fuel calc'd by the builtin calc <for reference i'm now using VE entries of 116% there>.. the motor would fall flat on its face till i gave it some throttle tip in and the AE light popped on.. it felt like hitting a nitrous button.. blip the gas and i'd have a half second of mental acceleration, and we're talking pushed way back in your seat when i was already at 6500rpm and blip the gas.. i could keep blipping it and it would rev up to 8k making more and more power the whole way.
i guess that means my VE maps may just not be right more than the injectors not working unless AE makes them go 100% Dutycycle.


_Modified by CdnDub at 9:53 PM 10-16-2003_


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (OttawaG60)*

I've heard 12:1 - 13:1 for WOT performance, whats funny is that i just ran a stock G60 engine thru that RC eng calculator and it comes out saying that the Injectors are actually to small for that engine. Suggests 26lb/hour injectors for a G60 motor at 80% duty cycle. I know for a fact they left the factory built to make 154hp and i've heard of people being able to fuel up to 217hp on stock injectors. 
thinking i may want to find some nice 30-32lb/hour injectors on sale somewhere but i'll dyno first and see if i'm running out of fuel before i run out of power


----------



## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

For an NA engine 13-13.5:1 is best for power.
For a turbo engine you may want to run richer to control detonation.
CdnDub, are you checking you injector duty cycle at WOT and high RPM? You can grab a quick glance at Megatune as long as you're not in traffic ;^)
Sounds like it's time for a little WB-O2 input.


----------



## CorradoAbaTurbo (Aug 30, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (J. Daniel)*

I am running a 3.5fpr


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CorradoAbaTurbo)*

I'm waiting for UMS to come out for wideband input







but if it takes much longer i may drop some coin on a wideband oxy controller it would be really handy for doing some emissions testing on other cars as well.
And i actually havnt looked closely at the duty cycle to see if it was pegging i'm so stoopid sometimes.. most of the time i was driving by myself tho and would glance over quickly at my laptop on the passenger seat to see what was pegging or wether i was lean or rich while doing some rolling road tuning..
pull over adjust the fuel maps a little.. hit upload and go for another WOT run to see if it felt any better and if the readings improved.
Still a little surprised i'm not hearing any detonation on a 12:1 CR motor on 94octane pump gas.. think it must be the cam and all the engineering i put into the cooling systems.


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

Not sure if anyone cares or not but I uploaded the MegaSquirtNSpark V3.0 code on saturday night and she fired right up and idles smoother than before.. i'm a little surprised at the smoother idle since my tach signal should be very very clean already since i've taken over the hall sensor completely.
Anyways i quickly set my newfound Revlimiter <MegaTuneSS now has more features> at 8000rpm hard fuel cut and 7800rpm spark retard to 5deg's.. it makes me feel much more comfortable about pushing it to the limits.
So far so good.


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CdnDub* »_Not sure if anyone cares or not but I uploaded the MegaSquirtNSpark V3.0 code on saturday night and she fired right up and idles smoother than before.. i'm a little surprised at the smoother idle since my tach signal should be very very clean already since i've taken over the hall sensor completely.
Anyways i quickly set my newfound Revlimiter <MegaTuneSS now has more features> at 8000rpm hard fuel cut and 7800rpm spark retard to 5deg's.. it makes me feel much more comfortable about pushing it to the limits.
So far so good.

cool, give the basics.. you are using a regular megasquirt board with just different code? how do you wire the ignition?


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Different code, a few jumper wires and mods to the board, bypassed one cap or diode <cant recall>
i jumpered JP1 to one of the spare pins and then used that to feed 5V to the Hall sensor as well as feed 5V back into the ECU for the tach signal.
then i modified the board <its in the Megaspark diagrams> so that i was feeding the tach circuit the triggered output from the hall <green wire usually> and thats my tach input. 
For output it triggers the green signal wire, which i think is Pin4 on a stock ignition module to fire off a spark. <trigger is on the FIDLE pin, pin 30> on a stock MS.
IF you have a relay board you'll have to remove the FIdle relay and jumper the pads.. i could take some pics if people are really curious.
I'm going to look for a DIS spark system if i dont go crank triggered EDIS.


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

cool, I'm trying the stock ignition with an older dist advance (advance retard) with a little mod, working good under boost.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Ordered my MegaSquirt kit today.
I'm currently running an SDS 3F, but I'd like to add myself to the masses of MegaSquirt beta testers








I have 2 cars to do, NA 16v and a 16vG60
Couple of Q's:
1) Igntion, for dist I want MegaSquirtNSpark, for no dist I want MegaSquirtNEDIS, is that correct?
2) Do these setups handle boost retard?


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (OttawaG60)*

Your assumptions are correct on which system to run..
and both will handle boost retard..
stock MAP sensor is 3bar.. ie 2bar of boost.. or 30psi..


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

Anyone here using MSpark or MEdis?


----------



## Scirocco G60T (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (OttawaG60)*

Nice tread ...
im planing to go with MS soon .
but till then im workin on a lilttle side project








How does ultra-view sound ???


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Scirocco G60T)*

For Spark/EDIS
It looks to me like there are a few HW changes to the MegaSquirt, then it's all software from there, am I correct in this assumption?


----------



## Spinyfrog (Jan 29, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

If I was going to use a Fox intake manifold on my Megasquirt powered engine, would the cold-start valve (behind the TB) be a good location for the MAP sensor tube? I've already moved the CTV to the end of the manifold (like a rabbit intake)
I figure theres already a hole there...


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Spinyfrog)*

That would work fine.. with a plenum style intake theres no real "wrong" place for it as long as its after the throttle plate in the TB.. 
in fact with MS you may find yourself looking for a 16V automatic engines TB since its got a TPS sensor mounted and a nice big vacuum port on it already.


----------



## Spinyfrog (Jan 29, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

16v Automatic TB has a TPS? humm... that'll make life sooo much easier.
the TB should bolt up to a Fox mani right?


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Spinyfrog)*

Yup.. it certainly does.. i snagged two of them at the local wrecker for $10.., sensors were busted but the TBs were ok.. 
Nigel is going to be using it on his Jetta to get MS up and running since i had no need for it once i went ITB..


----------



## bloo (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

i've been waiting on the ums for my project. i guess they need to finish up the wbo2 controller? does anyone know what point they're at, or when it will be available?


----------



## rocco_vinny (Sep 11, 2002)

I'm so stoked, I just ordered an MS kit and can't wait for it to arrive!
For now I'll be installing on my 82 1.7L 8V, cis-basic. When it runs good I'll ditch the motor for an ABA.


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

up


----------



## toplessvw (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CorradoAbaTurbo)*

what are you using for spark do you have any pics


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (toplessvw)*

heres my MS installed with the relay board , MS is on the left, relay in the middle, and my wideband controller is mounted below


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

How did you find the usefulness of the relayboard?


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (toplessvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *toplessvw* »_what are you using for spark do you have any pics

I dug up the Ford EDIS system from a junker.


----------



## toplessvw (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Well I decided to take the plunge I am going for a megasquirt system and I will try to use megajolt light and ford sdis to control spark. My only problem is I can not find any place that sells the pcb and parts for the mega jolt light I have found a couple of sites around but no definate info, like you can get with megasquirt. Here is the links I have found
http://picasso.org/mjlj/
http://www.4agte.com/index.htm (toyota mr2 running sdis)http://www.dainst.com/info/edis/edis.html
any help anyone can give would be appriciated
Thank You


----------



## Scirocco G60T (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (toplessvw)*

Actually ...
im trying to see if i can get a EDIS8 Unit to fire 4 coils








that way its not a wasted spark ignition anymore...
besides that way i can have a nice and strong spark for the high boost medium thats going to be working in


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (toplessvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *toplessvw* »_Well I decided to take the plunge I am going for a megasquirt system and I will try to use megajolt light and ford sdis to control spark. My only problem is I can not find any place that sells the pcb and parts for the mega jolt light I have found a couple of sites around but no definate info, like you can get with megasquirt. Here is the links I have found
http://picasso.org/mjlj/
http://www.4agte.com/index.htm (toyota mr2 running sdis)http://www.dainst.com/info/edis/edis.html
any help anyone can give would be appriciated
Thank You


http://www.jsm-net.demon.co.uk/megasquirtnedis/


----------



## Junkyardrabbit (Jul 7, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Can it really be this easy? Would I be correct in assuming the following are all of the electrical components needed to operate the megasquirt (except the MS itself);
inj2 >>> side of injector 1 
inj2 >>> side of injector 2 
inj1 >>> side of injector 3 
inj1 >>> side of injector 4 
fp >>> + side of fuel pump
fidle >>> + of air solenoid to increase idle while warming up 
vref >>> one of the prongs of throttle position sensor ?
tps >>> one of the prongs of throttle position sensor
tps ret >> one of the prongs of throttle position sensor
tach >> - on the coil
mat >> any prong on the air temp sensor (not case ground style)
mat ret >> the remaining prongon the air temp sensor
clt >> any prong on the air temp sensor (not case ground style)
clt ret >> the remaining prong on the coolant air temp sensor
o2 >> signal from O2 sensor
Batt 12v >> + side of battery
Switched 12V >>+ side of coil
Engine GND >> - valve cover bolt
Injector + 12V" (to remaining prongs on injectors
( injectors, not-grounded-case sensors and vw fast idle soleinoids don't have polarity, right?)


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Junkyardrabbit)*

all your assumptions are correct, just one thing, do not get the signal tach from the - on the coil since is very "unfiltered" and it will run like crap, use the green wire coming out of your ignition module


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Or if you want to do megasquirtNspark i can hook you up with a diagram to take signal straight from the hall sensor and then trigger ignition module directly.


----------



## Scirocco G60T (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Scirocco G60T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco G60T* »_Actually ...
im trying to see if i can get a EDIS8 Unit to fire 4 coils








that way its not a wasted spark ignition anymore...
besides that way i can have a nice and strong spark for the high boost medium thats going to be working in









the idea will work... 
but the trigger wheel must be mounte on the cam.
So instead i think im gonna finish up with the rollcage and the rest of the car and might as well just wait for UMS







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

Ok, I've ordered 3 MS's, relay boards and I've got my EDIS, looks like a fun winter ahead.
Stim is built, as well as a DIY-WB.
MSnEDIS -> 16vG60 Corrado
MS (and eventually NSpark)-> 2L 16v GTI
MSnSpark -> 84 GLI w/NOS


----------



## teknik (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (OttawaG60)*

what kind of equipment is needed to assemble the unit? I havent solderd anything since my days of R/Cing in the late 80's


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CdnDub* »_Or if you want to do megasquirtNspark i can hook you up with a diagram to take signal straight from the hall sensor and then trigger ignition module directly. 


Dave, I need the info on doing MSnS with the VW ignition. Going to be replacing digifant in my friend's car soon. The existing harness probably already has what we need in it, but I want to see your diagram and what settings you had to do to make it work. Thanks!
Jim


----------



## RedDevil (Sep 21, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

Some very useful information! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to all you guys!


----------



## TURBOCADDY (Jan 17, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (RedDevil)*

I have a megasquirt project planed out but dont know what to use for spark
what are you guys using? there is a few choices but which ones are simplest and most reliable with the most bennifits for dubs


----------



## Scirocco G60T (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (TURBOCADDY)*

im gonna use EDIS4








want to get rid of that prone fail distributor and still have the advantage of not having to worry about rotors and caps for the distributor


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Scirocco G60T)*

G60T what are you going to do to replace the dizzy on your block?
Only thing i could think of is buying a new 16V oil pump and using the 16V blockoff plate setup. 
I'm currently using MSnS driven off a digifant dizzy on my 83 gti.. works great, theres some jitter but no misfire.


----------



## Scirocco G60T (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

actually i swapped to a fully built 9A.
soi had a friend machine me a block off plate








BTW ... im woking on a cam position system for the 16V


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Scirocco G60T)*

lol doh.. didnt even think that u were using a 16V.. i'm on an 8V so i need to figure out how to block off the hole or just leave the dizzy there.. 16V pump and plate seems to make sense.. and i've got the parts.. now i just need the EDIS parts and to figure out how to mount the trigger wheel.
I'd love to do EDIS-8 on a 4cyl and have one coil per plug rather than waste spark.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

In the works, 
MS for a 16v Gti (small mods)
MSnS for 84 GLI, big cams, NOS
MSnEDIS for 16vG60 Corrado.
Stim is build, working on MS #1


----------



## Scirocco G60T (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CdnDub)*

then you are better off waiting for UMS








it has 12 configurable outputs


----------



## Mk1noHID (Dec 16, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Scirocco G60T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco G60T* »_actually i swapped to a fully built 9A.
soi had a friend machine me a block off plate








BTW ... im woking on a cam position system for the 16V

Any pics?


----------



## Scirocco G60T (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Mk1noHID)*

Not Yet








very soon though.. workin on my website


----------



## limited 16VG60 (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

hello everybody
i'am verrrry intersted in de system ?, is here somebody who has installed the system on a vw 1600 gti rabbit ???
i'am from belguim (little country in europe )
now i have a question , can they ship the pcb's to belguim , and how do i have to pay ??
i hope somebody can help me !!! 
meelto: [email protected]
thanx jelle


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (limited 16VG60)*

Well I finally have all the parts and some time.. lets see if I can build the whole thing: MS, stim, relay and flyback all in one night


----------



## sold on expense (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Scirocco G60T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco G60T* »_then you are better off waiting for UMS








it has 12 configurable outputs

Is that actually ever going to come out?


----------



## Scirocco G60T (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (sold on expense)*

well from what i understand...
Bruce and Al are putting the finishing touches on the WBO2 circuitry.
here's a quote from the mailing list:

_Quote »_
There has been a lot of progress, mainly in the details:
- Al has been finishing up the first pass of the HCS12 embedded code. 
Everything is in there for calculation of fuel and spark which encompasses 
all of the MS embedded code variants plus some nice additions. For 
instance, the code has full spark dwell control and a predictor/corrector 
algorithm for ignition. The code has VE and AFR target tables all with 
dual table capability. Full stepper idle control is also there.
With the fuel/spark code developed, there is a whole other part of the 
system to be developed - the routing and "switch fabric". Since the UMS 
outputs are multi-purpose, they can be defined via software for any 
function on the fly. The whole infrastructure for this (i.e. crosspoint 
switching, etc) needs to be implemented. This is the next step.
Also, there have been a few submissions which are of great help. For 
instance, Dennis Shutt has developed an entire HCS12 application for 
handling multi-tooth wheels and crank/can synchronization (he is using this 
for a motorcycle ignition controller) - his latest version, ready for 
experimentation with Metrowerks Codewarrior compiler and simulator (free 
download from Metrowerks.com) is posted here:
http://www.bgsoflex.com/Signal1.zip

- I am *still* working on the wideband section, both hardware and software. 
Al thinks that the late Garfield Willis has invaded my body and thus I have 
become obsessed with the wideband. For those who did not know Garfield, he 
was one of the individuals who worked on the original DIY-WB project. He 
later formed his own company and started his own research on the whole 
wideband subject (others can fill the list on the whole DIY-WB 
fight-n-battle, it makes for interesting reading). Garfield was known for 
keeping his findings and discoveries a secret, and for his copious flaming 
of individuals on email list.
At first, the whole wideband thing appeared really simple - build a circuit 
and hook up the sensor. But, as I dug deeper and deeper, it was evident 
that I needed to dig even deeper. Its not the electronics or the software 
that is hard, but the "care and feeding" of the sensor itself, as well as 
the information it yields.
For instance, I believe that everyone has seen the calibration curve in the 
LA-3 datasheet. But, what it does not tell you is that if the hydrocarbon 
changes, so does the curve. This is not a big deal with an external AFR 
meter - just change the calibration for the fuel used (high-end meters 
allow you to do exactly this). However, for a device that is directly 
controlling the mixture of the engine, its a little more complicated. For 
instance, a setup which uses unleaded gas will have a certain sensor 
calibration. However, if one subsequently injects, say, nitrous oxide, then 
the calibration (and resultant mass-air-fuel calculation) for the sensor is 
totally different (not only does the stoich point shift but the slopes of 
the curves change as well) - and the controller needs to compensate for 
this. Same goes if one adds water injection - this changes the 
reactant/product balance. So the wideband controller needs to know the 
instantaneous hydrocarbon used, and if it changes - this goes for 
Nitromethane, diesel, alcohol, methanol, octane-blends, or even coal or 
firewood. There is a lot of detail to this which requires the knowledge of 
how the sensor operates and knowledge on the whole combustion process. And 
this does not include exhaust backpressure and sensor temperature effects....
Actual sensor calibration with respect to gas is also important. Garfield 
spent a lot of time on this, and although he never really gave significant 
details, he did indicate that there can be a 20% variation on sensor of the 
same type. At some point in the near term, we are going to calibrate many 
sensor heads in random sample in order to roughly determine the spread. And 
since the UEGO sensor head is sensitive to several gases (like O2, H2, HC, 
etc) the method of gas calibration is important.
All of the above is coming together in the wideband control section. The 
ultimate goal is to provide the real chance of using the wideband as a 
continuous feedback mechanism for mixture control - even at situations like 
wide-open-throttle. And when complete, everything will be documented for 
all to see.
Since the technical SNR of the list has been kinda low (as it was pointed 
out a while back), I am going to post a little "tease" information (there 
will be much more to come). Many people who are using wideband oxygen 
meters use free air calibration to set the lean scale of their meter. It 
turns out that there are environmental factors which affect this 
calibration which should be taken into account during this calibration. I 
have make a Windows application which allows one to adjust their free-air 
calibration values in response to environmental and geographic effects. The 
application can be downloaded here:
<http://www.bgsoflex.com/partialp/partialp.zip>
Documentation on the calculations an how to use the application is located 
here:
<http://www.bgsoflex.com/partialp/PartialPressureConversion.pdf>
Note that free air calibration only adjusts for lean readings from stoich 
(i.e. excess oxygen situation) - for rich side calibration it is a 
completely different ballgame indeed, and much more is required - this will 
be an upcoming subject...
I understand that it'll have WBO2 control, and am hoping it's adaptable to 
multiple O2 sensors - 7057 Bosch is the cheapest right now that I know of, so 
naturally I'm rooting for that one.
I have heard that it will have ion sensing ignition, but I've also heard that 
it will be an EDIS controller. COP, CNP, EDIS, etc... I remember the debate on 
which one UMS should have, but have not heard the result. Will the ion sense 
be integral with the coil like the Saab units, or an external unit like someone 
posted a couple months ago? Will it get its signal from the spark plug, or 
will it require head surgery?
I imagine the auxillary capabilities are wide open, and my dirty little mind is 
coming up with lots of things for UMS to do: boost control; cooling fan 
control; switchable outputs programmable for direction, condition and 
hysterysis; idle control using pwm or stepper drivers; shift light output; 
adjustable multi-stage rev limiters; self tune both for A/F ratio and ignition; 
automatic transmission and torque converter control... I am fully aware that 
many of these are repetitive - cooling fan control and shift light could both 
be driven by the programmable outputs, for example - but I have no idea which, 
if any, of these will be incorporated into UMS. I'm sure I've missed some 
features, as well!
Anyway, if Bruce or Al could give a quick update, along with a proposed feature 
list, I would really appreciate it. I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting info, 
and though I know the boys are busy, I'm not asking for price or release 
dates. I just want a better idea of what features this little bugger's gonna 
have!!!
Shoot - UMS has been such a taboo subject lately, I'm afraid to open the 
floodgates and I'm also afraid of getting flamed for asking, but I'm dyin' to 
hear about it!!!

Right now, there are 12 power outputs (excluding stepper motor drive and 
some general purpose outputs). These outputs are assigned to the function 
that the end user wants. For instance, if someone wants all 12 to be fuel 
injector outputs, then the switch fabric is set for this configuration. If 
someone wants 8 for injectors and 4 for wasted spark, then they set the 
fabric up for this. If someone wants 8 outputs for sequential injection, 
then the switch is set for this. If someone wants 12 outputs that just turn 
on solenoids (i.e. transmission), then the fabric is set to do this. If 
someone wants to run EDIS, then two of the outputs are defined for this 
function.
If a channel is defined as an ignition channel, then it is capable of 
directly controlling dwell. Same goes for a channel defined for FI control 
- it will handle flyback and damping for PWM current limit.
So you see the idea - there are two "parts" to UMS - one that performs the 
fuel calculations, ignition timing, activation of general purpose outputs, 
etc, and the other that routes and switches the outputs.
12 outputs were chosen simply because of the number of connectors left on 
the Amp connector, but this number is not set in stone as of yet. And, 
something I failed to mention in the last post is that UMS will use CAN 
(Controller-Area Network) as a major part of the system. What this allows 
for is the capability of cascading multiple UMS boards together, controlled 
by one unit and rest as slave devices. It only makes sense to utilize CAN 
as a mechanism for inter-system communications. For instance, once a UMS 
box reads the value of, say the coolant sensor, then this data is available 
in real-time on the CAN bus, in case another system requires the same 
information.
We will leave the J1850 interface for later discussion (i.e. the HCS12 
device does has this interface - i.e. OBD-II VPW at 10.4Kb/s, same format 
used by Chrysler and GM) -








>Um... Are you saying that I might pass an OBDII plug in scan, if I was
>willing to add the right little bits of code, and not tell the operator that
>he wasn't talking to a factory computer?
>;-P

It is in theory possible - but, the whole J1850 thing is pretty hard to 
implement on the ECU end (without the standards and a lot of work) - but it 
is possible. But, the hardware interface is there for this.


Hope this answeres it all


----------



## Scirocco G60T (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Scirocco G60T)*

BTW sorry for the long post








Didnt think it would be that big


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Scirocco G60T)*

Got 3hrs of building in the other night.. stim, relay and flyback boards are all stuffed and ready to go. Got through the power supply section of the MS board. Probably another 2hrs and it'll all be done. Pretty easy all together. Hardest part is sorting all the stuff coming from DigiKey.


----------



## diygti (May 4, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (need_a_VR6)*

I recently finished putting together my MS as well. It was quite easy- just takes time. I accidentallty put the transistor on the stimulator backwards and spent a few days figuring that out. They have since changed the directions to make that more clear. I am very satisfied with how well thought out this whole thing is. I don't know why more people aren't using it. I'm starting to dream of doing this to my engine I didn't consider before. An Eaton supercharger may be next.


----------



## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (diygti)*

"I am very satisfied with how well thought out this whole thing is. I don't know why more people aren't using it."
Wait until you're datalogging and viewing ALL the data graphically via Mike Roberts MS Log Visual Viewer http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and then tuning your fuel maps via MSTweak. 
You *won't believe* how well thought out this deal is once you're using all those tools. It's just amazing.......


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Andrew Stauffer)*

Seriously. I've been playing with all the software offline and it looks alot more powerful then the other systems I was looking at. The best thing is if ends up being as good as it looks and being under 1/4th the price of it's closest competitor.


----------



## Scirocco G60T (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (need_a_VR6)*

Cant wait for UMS








thats gonna be a bad ass system!!!!
and its only gonna be just a lil bit more


----------



## sold on expense (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Scirocco G60T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco G60T* »_Cant wait for UMS








thats gonna be a bad ass system!!!!
and its only gonna be just a lil bit more









I'm really hoping it comes out this summer in time for my plans. If not, I'll just have to be boring and rebuild the engine stock.


----------



## MA_XXX (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (sold on expense)*

if i'm using an ABA distributor (hall sender) in my PL 16V head (with forced induction)...which system do i want to order??? MSnS??? i'd like to control ignition and fuel without the use of an OEM ignition control unit. is that possible??? thanks








BTW i've read the whole thread and th website but, now my brain's mush.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (MA_XXX)*

Time out, back up. Ok, you have the ABA distro attached to the 16v head, or you have the PL/9A distro with an ABA trigger wheel on the 16v head? Or do you just have the ABA distro in the block?
In any case to use MSnS you'll need a distro that has a trigger window that has more then a single pulse, like the ABA distro. You can either make a 4 pulse trigger wheel for the crank, or just use a stock 16v distro. You'll still need a Bosch ignition module though, just not the knock box, etc. There's alot of good info on the MSnS page in the files section on how to connect the Bosch module and distro to MSnS.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (MA_XXX)*

MS, MSnS and MSnEDIS are the same "kit"
You just need to make some changes to turn the MS into an nS or nEDIS.


----------



## MA_XXX (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (need_a_VR6)*

i'm in the process of building up the engine so just tell me what i need to do...i'm using an ABA block and a PL head. clearly i have to place the dizzy in the head. which one should i use???







do i have to use a motronic ignition box??? if i do it's gonna have to be the passat one right???


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (MA_XXX)*

Keep the 16v distributor, use Megasquirt'n'spark. If you want to use a distributor in the 8v location, you 'd need one from a 3A, or adapt an old digifant or 10:1 1.8 CIS-e distributor.


----------



## Scirocco G60T (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (MA_XXX)*

heh.. u can get away with not using the Distributor at all!!!
i will be suing a EDIS4 unit








works better that way ... right now waiting to hear back and see if the EDIS4 Coils can be replaced with a similar VAG unit


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Scirocco G60T)*

It probably could, I can't remember the specifics but the coil probably only has two trigger wires and a ground to it. You could probably use a VR6 coilpack and only run 4 of the 6 terminals and just two trigger wires. With how often the VW coils in general fail though, I'm not sure using any VAG one is a good idea. MSD has an aftermarket EDIS coil, I'd go with that over the other options.
For a distro 16v just use an early VW ignition amp (off a CIS car) and wire it as per the diagrams in the Megaspark or MSnS files section. 
I got some more work done to mine, finally finished the stim, which only needed the Moser pot. Finished the power supply, comm circuit, clock circuit, and input circuits. Pretty neat to see the MS talking to PCConfig.. the RPM pots on the stim are a little "odd" but other then that all is well. I still have to finish the flyback board before I work on the output section, don't want to do the work twice.
Yay for progress.


_Modified by need_a_VR6 at 1:08 PM 1-23-2004_


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
I got some more work done to mine, finally finished the stim, which only needed the Moser pot. Finished the power supply, comm circuit, clock circuit, and input circuits. Pretty neat to see the MS talking to PCConfig.. the RPM pots on the stim are a little "odd" but other then that all is well. I still have to finish the flyback board before I work on the output section, don't want to do the work twice.
Yay for progress.

Yay is correct! except you are beating me... I am as far as the clock circuit but havent done the input circuits or flyback yet.








So even if the stock 16V ignition coil, CIS distributor, and ignition module is used... you still need a crank trigger right? 
Do the EDIS kits come complete? 
Anyone used an EDIS or MSD ignition kit? What part number(s)? How do you like it?


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CrackerX)*

You dont need a trigger wheel if you have a 16V, CIS-E or Digifant dizzy to use with your project.. 
i'm using a CIS-E dizzy on my 8V triggering MSnS and it works great.. using the stock coil, wires and module with some rewiring


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CrackerX)*

Not beating you by much though, the input circuit went quick. I burned alot of time just playing with the stim and seeing my vals change in the PCConfig. Luckily I spent four years working as an electronics tech, so I already had the basics down.
There are two routes, MSnS and MSnEDIS. For MSnS you just need a NON ADVANCE hall effect dizzy (stock CIS-e, or Digi) and the early ignition amp/dwell unit. I'm not sure if the CIS-e ignition amp will work, but there's a list of part numbers somewhere in the files section and you can cross ref. 
For MSnEDIS you'll need all the EDIS parts, 36-1 crank trigger, VR sensor, EDIS computer, coil, etc. If you google MSnEDIS there's a UK based page that's got really good info on cars to pull parts from.
The MSD ignition box for DIS cars is expensive so I wasn't planning on using it. Well that is as long as I can figure out how to implement a two step limiter with the MSnEDIS code. Hopefully it'll work out.
HTH.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (need_a_VR6)*

Cool, thanks. I am giong to try with the CIS-E stuff first I think







So CIS-Motronic has an advance distributor? I thought they were the same as a CIS-E....
I was looking at the yahoo groups archives and found out some information regaurding the 2step rev limiters... You might want to try searching them for a little help.
I am a Computer Science dude and have some experience messing with MIPS assembly language as well as a few other chipsets. I am not sure what assembly language the Motorolla procesor is using, but hopefully I can read through it and figure it out pretty quick. I want to find a command reference for it but I havent even begun to search yet. Anyways I am definitly looking into doing a two step rev limiter system as well. Maybe we will get there around the same time and I can just give you some code








Oh and btw I live near, go to school with people who work at, and know lots of people who work at Jefferson Labs. Thats the place where Al Grippo happens to work







I actually know some of the people that helped design it. I might go talk to them and get some ideas on how to make "improvements" to the code. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by CrackerX at 10:50 AM 1-23-2004_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CrackerX)*

Yeah CIS-Motronic has the same distro as CIS-e, sorry I didn't include that in my list, but I'm forgetful. 
Thanks I'll check the archives again.
I'm an EE myself and did as much programming I could in assembly, but I'm all Intel based, like 8085/86 and some 8051 microcontroller design. Wish I learned the Motorola when I had the time/opportunity while I was in school. Whoops! I think you can download the instruction set/processor specs right from Motorola.. probaly a big PDF though.
Neat that you're that close to those guys. Good stuff.. ask Al when UMS is coming out.. wait, don't do that, wouldn't want to upset the master


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

MSnEDIS
http://www.jsm-net.demon.co.uk....html


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

Thats the one. Thanks.


----------



## sold on expense (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

This is an awfully dumb question, and I apologize but:
Can MSnS use boost based retard for the timing maps, or do I have to use RPM values?


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: (sold on expense)*

It will do retard based on boost.
you just need to change the default ignition map to go from 0 - 255kpa instead of 0-100 <ie atmosphere>
It would be very simple.. only downside is you are limited on table space


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (sold on expense)*

It's a 3D MAP/RPM table so you can have vac advance, boost retard as well as a full rpm timing map.


----------



## sold on expense (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: (CdnDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CdnDub* »_It will do retard based on boost.
you just need to change the default ignition map to go from 0 - 255kpa instead of 0-100 <ie atmosphere>
It would be very simple.. only downside is you are limited on table space

What kind of resolution do the maps run with then? I have no problem with conservative timing because of a coarse table, really.


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: (sold on expense)*

8x8
rpm vs map
same as fuel


----------



## sold on expense (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: (CdnDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CdnDub* »_8x8
rpm vs map
same as fuel


Yikes. At least its easy to tune though, eh?


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: (sold on expense)*

its interpolated quite well. and if you don't like 8x8 you can expand it, the source code is included. you could make it 32x32 or 64x64 in rom but the 8x8 was to keep the maps in ram. 
i believe its 4 way interpolated so its equivalent to a non-interpolated ecu using two 256 tables (ie sds).
Im sure Ultra will use larger tables since it has more ram.
You can't use all your ram (stack,a/d, variables,adaptive tables) the base processor isn't that all hot but does the trick.
If you stuck to a rom solution you could easily recode it to behave however you wanted. 
Most modern ecu's have so many goddamn tables in rom/ram that its a huge dominoe effect on programming them. I'm looking at my GM ECU and the bastard is freaking complex..


----------



## sold on expense (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: (mrkrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrkrad* »_Most modern ecu's have so many goddamn tables in rom/ram that its a huge dominoe effect on programming them. I'm looking at my GM ECU and the bastard is freaking complex..


Are you going to be cutting chips for your Camaro now too? You love code so, after all.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (sold on expense)*

Yeah it's ONLY 8x8, but as Sam said it does interpolation between points. Really all you have to do is datalog a bunch and then pick RPM/MAP points where they make sense, ie steep transitions, valleys, etc. I think it should be enough for pretty much every motor. Over on the Yahoo group this was argued quite a bit last week, sure opened my eyes. If you want to waste a few hours but get good info read that thread.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

I'm looking into finding a coil that works instead of the EDIS one, so I can use the stock 16v plug wires.
Eurospeed.ca has one.
Anyone have any ideas what I need to be looking for to see if they are interchangeable?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

Well my first guess is to measure the resistance and impedance of the EDIS coil and then find coils that are the same. You might want to look at the EDIS patent info (there's info on the MSnEDIS site) and see if you can get specs there.


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

One thing to note that EDIS fires wasted spark. two or more coils with two connections each.. I dont know if VW ever had a setup like that
one thing i was thinking of trying was hooking two COP vw coils together and running wasted spark that way.. 
or using EDIS-8 and 4 vw COP setups from a 1.8T


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (CdnDub)*

Well once I get the EDIS setup (too cold for junkyarding now!) I'll check it out to see if it can drive the VW coils.. might, might not. Another option would be to hook up a MSD DIS box to the EDIS coil outputs. They would be more willing to drive "universal" coils. Just a thought.
Some progress pics..
Finally making some progress on my Megasquirt ECU..
















As well as the relay board..








Got the power, clock, comm and input circuits working already.. 

Oh damn. Probably another night's work and it'll be ready to go into the car.. not that the car's ready


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

I gave up on the flyback board because I forgot to get some isolators.. DOH. 
So, I got the output section wired up with the std flyback, and hacked the case ends. It's UGLY .. haha, it'll work well enough until I can get new ends from Heeger and CNC them.
Pretty neat to see everything light up.. yay.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

I've got a Q for you guys.
I'm running a 16vG60, I have both the EDIS and the dist setup.
Dist setup seems easier to implement, stock wires etc, but can the coil handle spark at high rpm and boost.
Oil leaks, cap/rotor are another reason why I am thinking of using the EDIS.
But I am weary of trying to get the crank trigger and magnet setup done and getting custom plug wires.
Anyone care to comment on plus minus of nSpark and nEDIS?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

The crank trigger is super easy to get on there, on the MSnSpark group there was a part number posted for the stamped steel wheel. Definitley a good way to go. Mounting the VR sensor looks pretty simple as well.
The only problem I can see with the EDIS is that no one's really pushed the envelope, so you'd be cutting new ground. Max tested rpm is only 8100, at least that I've been able to find. Maybe hit up some of the Hi-Po Ford boards and see where EDIS gives up the ghost on boosted cars.
Remember that EDIS is waste spark, so your coil has 1/2 the time to charge it normally would on a 4cyl.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_The crank trigger is super easy to get on there, on the MSnSpark group there was a part number posted for the stamped steel wheel. Definitley a good way to go. Mounting the VR sensor looks pretty simple as well.


I've got the whole EDIS setup (2x







) but I have a custom aluminum crank pulley for the 16vG60, so mounting the steel trigger wheel doesn't seem as easy as it looks.
Mounting the VR sensor, I've found a mount for 16v from Eurospeed.ca, made for the DTA pickup. Looks very close.

_Quote »_
The only problem I can see with the EDIS is that no one's really pushed the envelope, so you'd be cutting new ground. Max tested rpm is only 8100, at least that I've been able to find. Maybe hit up some of the Hi-Po Ford boards and see where EDIS gives up the ghost on boosted cars.


8100? I won't be going near that, or else I'll end up with little bits of G60









_Quote »_
Remember that EDIS is waste spark, so your coil has 1/2 the time to charge it normally would on a 4cyl.

How about the Bosch spark box, is it capable?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

Well if you're concerned about the trigger wheel it's almost worth it just using a 16v dizzy, but with an MSD ignition on top of it if you're worried about losing spark at high boost/rich AFRs. The Bosch ignition amp will *probably* do what you're asking of it, but there's no way to know without trying.
I've been kicking both options back and forth and it's looking like I'm keeping the 16v distro just because the MSD ignitions (I need for 2step rev limiting) are MUCH cheaper for non DIS ignitions.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

I'm a little concerned about the 16v dist leakage (they all tend to leak oil) and cap/rotor.
But, it seems simpler to implement.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

That is true. Luckily I found a Saab 8v vac advance distro that fits. I'm going to use that and lock out the advance on mine to run MSnS. At least that's the current plan.
I wouldn't sweat a cap/rotor as long as you watch for wear.


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Remember that EDIS is waste spark, so your coil has 1/2 the time to charge it normally would on a 4cyl.

Should have the same amount of time to charge because there are two coils.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (angusmf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *angusmf* »_
Should have the same amount of time to charge because there are two coils.

True. Thanks for the correction.


----------



## toplessvw (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: edis*

I have all my stuffready for mega and edis until brent picasso comes out with his v2 of megajolt light. Does any one have pics or attempted to mount the trigger wheel and trigger on a eight valve engine. I have a little time before I am installing everything so anything that will make the process easier would help .


----------



## GeoffVR6 (Feb 16, 2002)

Which sensors is everyone using for coolant and IAT? I ask because I put the VW 2.2K resistors on my board instead of the GM 2.49K. I wanted to use my old sensors instead of using GM sensors. Any thoughts on this or should I just go with GM?
-Geoff


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: (GeoffVR6)*

Go ahead and use the VW stuff. Works fine. In fact, I used the GM resistors, but used the eztherm to change the thermfactor.inc files. Didn't have any problems.


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*only problem with megasquirt*

my megasquirt failed today, finally and it was just an injector wire at the relay board, I wish all the problems were that simple, it took 30 seconds to fix and a small screwdriver. I love the damn thing
now I'm going to install one in an aircooled, 2.0l turbocharged 356 posrche speedster replica engine, that is going to be fun


----------



## tallpaul (Oct 3, 2001)

*Get opinions on this setup*

ok, i've read this entire thread and want to get the epert's (you guys) opinion on the setup on thinking of.
I'm running a 2l 16 N/A (currently set up on motronic), i'm going to intall ITB's and bump the compression up a bit. i have a working 16v dist, so i'm thinking that the squirtnspark would be the way to go. 
So my questions are:
1. would there be much to gain by going to the EDIS setup?
2. would it still be possible to use the knock sensors?
3. are there any additional bits that i would need to use squirtnspark with my ignition system, or is it pretty much plug an play (just for the ignition)?
thanks,
Paul


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Get opinions on this setup (tallpaul)*

1. Nobody really knows.. you'll need the whole EDIS system and the crank wheel. 
2. No there is no KS support.
3. You'll just need a CIS or CIS-E style ignition amp, and you can get rid of your whole Motronic ECU and program spark with MSnS. The diagrams are in the files section of the Yahoo group.
It's funny these Megasquirts.. once you get one project you end up doing a few more. I've already been enlisted to help out MSing a 454 TBI truck and then after that MS a 500cc dirtbike. Fun stuff.


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Get opinions on this setup (need_a_VR6)*

My Megasquirt is now up and running on the car, with one major flaw - the tach spikes to 25,000 RPM, especially when hitting the accelerator. Has anyone used the DAVE CAP (and Wing Gee, if you're out there, I'd be glad to hear your thoughts!)? My ignition is pre-Hall sensor, it's the one with the vacuum advance and retard cans, so I can't hook it up to the Hall sensor output.
Also, if anyone has a picture of the "Dave Capacitor" installation, I'd like to see it - the instructions are confusing to me.


_Modified by ijcameron at 7:56 PM 2-19-2004_


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Get opinions on this setup (ijcameron)*

Do you have the version 3 code? I didn't need any hardware mods to stop tach spikes when I upgraded to the newer code.
---edit---
Didn't fully read your post, sorry. Dunno if the new code will help with points ignition. I had electronic ignition. You should upgrade code anyway if you haven't already. And switching to a hall sensor setup wouldnt be a bad idea.


_Modified by angusmf at 8:01 AM 2-20-2004_


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Get opinions on this setup (angusmf)*

yes, I wonder if pertronix ignitor fits in your dist, it would be a cheap and great upgrade


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

Thanks for the replies. I believe I have the latest code - V2.98, or something like that. I'll check the yahoo site, and if there's a newer one I'll grab it.
I also thought about "upgrading" to a junkyard Hall sensor ignition, but then I'd have to dial in the ignition advance again, and that's hard to do when the fueling's not running right.
The Pertronix ignition is a good idea - I'll try a few other things first, and maybe go with that if they don't work.


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

I've just installed the "Dave Cap" -here's how it's done:
LEG 1:Find the diode D5. You need to locate the end of the diode with a white band. Solder the the cap to the lead of D5 on that banded end of the diode. Alternatively, solder the leg to the end of R10 furthest away from the web address on the silkscreen (i.e. the "top" of the board when you can read the text). Whichever of the two is easiest to get to will work fine.
LEG 2: Solder the other end to the jumper at XG1
Then use a blob of silicone or something similar to attach the Dave cap to the other nearby caps, so that vibration won't cause it to fail.
Also, capacitors are non-directional.

There's a circuit diagram and stuff about 2/3 of the way down the page here: http://www.megasquirt.info/Ignition.htm



_Modified by ijcameron at 7:46 PM 2-21-2004_


----------



## GeoffVR6 (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: (angusmf)*

It turns out that my troubles with the VW 2.2K resistors were that I actually put in some 220K resistors I had laying around







At anyrate if anyone else does this the coolant and IAT will read 170 or 215 depending on where you set them and nothing inbetween or beyond on the stimulator using the runtime display.
Time to wire up the car! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (GeoffVR6)*

Both my IAT and CLT worked fine and linear, just not full range. I'm using the "std" resistor values for the GM sensors though.


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Speaking of the temp. sensors, does anyone know if the default values on the EasyTherm 4d program are for the GM sensors?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (ijcameron)*

I had a IAT sensor wired to my relay board and it was reading correctly or close to correctly with a stock GM temp sensor off a TPI motor. I would think that Easytherm would use the same default values, but you might want to post on the Yahoo group to make sure.


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

i think everything form the ms line uses standard gm sensor ranges


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

Respect to the Dave Cap! It totally fixed my wandering RPM problems. If you are tuning, I would strongly suggest reading the "15 minute tuning" section in the Megatune 2.16 Help section (you get it when you download Megatune from the Yahoo "Files" section) - I didn't know about the "F", "G" or "Z" keys, which I've used a lot.
P.S. Megatune 2.20 is a dud for me - the 3D graph on the tuning page keeps messing up.


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

...but no respect to my wiring skills - the car died on a hill, both the fuel injection fuses on the relay board were blown. I used "liquid electrical tape" to seal the joins on my fuel injector wiring - I'm thinking that the heat of the engine melted the stuff and shorted out the injectors. Anyway, thank God for AAA and cell phones.
The tuning was going great up 'til that point - I'll try and fix it this week and hopefully be hauling ass at this weekend's autocross.


----------



## stevelangford (Apr 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

I installed the ms board and the relay board inside the car and is been great, they are away fro the elements that way, and routed all the wires from the relay board to the engine compartment thru the hole in the firewall where the wire that went to the jetronic brain in the cis lambda cars, passenger side under dash


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

Well Im almost done with the megasquirt, got the boards all soldered up... just got one question. I was testing all of the inputs again just to make sure everything worked and I decided to test the map sensor. I hooked up the map sensor to a vacuum line on my friends 16v and the map sensor sat at 30 and the Barometric Pressure sat at 29. No matter what, it wasnt moving around... does this mean it is bad????


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CrackerX)*

Instead of hooking up the MAP sensor to a vacuum line on your buddy's car, try this: Attach a length of vacuum hose to the MAP sensor(3/64" hose is a snug fit), put the hose to your mouth and suck hard on it, like you would do to a drinking straw. Does the MAP value change?
Also, if you're at, or close to sea level, the MAP value at rest should be ~ 97 - 100


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

Yea im thinking its bad then... cause I tried sucking on it and nothing happened either. Crap. Oh well, I will order another one after checking the board out some...


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CrackerX)*

Might want to loosen the screws that hold it to the board and try again.


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CrackerX)*

Also try blowing into the tube, does that read anything?


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (OttawaG60)*

hose-suckahs


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CrackerX)*

Did you install the map sensor "backwards"? If the pins are reversed, it gives some funky numbers.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

I dont think so, but I suppose if its busted it couldnt hurt to try to reverse it...







Thanks for the responses


----------



## peteM3 (Sep 10, 2001)

anybody have any idea what it would take to setup megasquirt as a FULL standalone using either megasquirt & spark or megasquirt & edis. By this i mean totally get rid of the oem computer.


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: (peteM3)*

Does your motor have a distributor? Does your OEM computer control anything other than spark and fuel?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (peteM3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *peteM3* »_anybody have any idea what it would take to setup megasquirt as a FULL standalone using either megasquirt & spark or megasquirt & edis. By this i mean totally get rid of the oem computer. 


It isn't that "hard" but could be alot of work, if you know what I mean.
Just take the stock computer and figure out what that hooks up to. Then remove it all. Install the MS and all its sensors and be done with it.
On a Motronic car I think it's only fuel injection/timing and there's no control for anything else (cruise, mfa, etc).


----------



## peteM3 (Sep 10, 2001)

yeah i mean, i want my car to be BASIC... i want my efi, fuel pump, etc etc on switches... i'm gonna hide a fuel pump switch just in case jerkoffs try to steal it... 
but i'd much rather have basic and easy to understand then complicated and a big wiring mess. I don't mind running a simple wiring harness. 
On my a2 i'm 90% certain almost everything other then ignition and cis runs on the chassis wiring harness which i wouldn't be touching. 

btw my car is a 92 gti 16v.... however its about to have an obd I aba 2.0 turbo in it. I was planning on basically pulling out my whole 16v setup, cleaning up the engine bay fixing whatever needs to be while i'm in there and doing a standalone setup basically. 


_Modified by peteM3 at 7:46 PM 2-25-2004_


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: (peteM3)*

Should be pretty straightforward on that car. You should be able to use MSnS if you swap in a distributor with 4 hall sensor windows. Either a 3A distributor, or adaptor and gear swap onto a 1.8 distributor.
Or you could possibly use the setup from an A4 2.0 head, which has a hall sensor deal on the cam sprocket.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (angusmf)*

Isn't the hall sender on a Mk4 a one pulse per rev, just like an ABA distro?
You didn't mention if that ABA motor is still an 8v or a 16v hybrid.


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

The one in my garage has 4 cutouts in the wheel. Does the distrib rotate at the same speed as the cam, or the crank? If it's the cam, then the cam hall sensor deal should work. Should be, cause otherwise I don't see why they would have put 4 holes in the wheel.
And yeah, if you have a 16v head, you can just use the stock distributor.


----------



## peteM3 (Sep 10, 2001)

werd, wonder where to get a 3a dizzy lol maybe pick & pull off an old audi 4000 or something? 

i'm 90% sure my 16v one is leakin right now its drivin me nuts. haven't gotten around to pulling the cap and looking though.


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: (peteM3)*

3A distributors come on Audi 80s with the 4cyl 2.0. You can buy them new from TT, but they're $150. IMO, it's worth it not to have to run the adapter and change the gear from a 1.8 distributor. I can never get that frickin pin out.


----------



## peteM3 (Sep 10, 2001)

oh i'm gonna be running an 8 valve head... too poor to properly rebuild a 16v head so i'll save that for another day.


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (peteM3)*

Autocrossed the Megasquirted Rabbit today - rough tuned it for about 20 minutes before I got there - stumbled coming off idle, I'm thinking that I'm running it too rich, but otherwise it felt like I was getting a lot more power than I ever did from CIS.
I have a question about the Megatweak program - if I datalog and upload the data to Megatweak, it will accept the data and say "341 crossover points found", but won't plot the points on the graph, and nothing else happens. What am I doing wrong?


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: (ijcameron)*

There's a second "page" where all the good stuff happens...if you're using 3000 at least. I dunno if 4000 is out, but I haven't tried it. Anyway, I think one of the menu's has an option for generate map.


----------



## joelmahoney (Feb 20, 2002)

*Re: (angusmf)*

how accurate is a ONE wire O2 sensor, mounted about 4" downstream from the turbo?? for tuning around town/part throttle...I mean is the sensor cooling off enough to give inaccurate readings?
responses suggesting that I get an EGT gage or a wideband are of NO interest.
Thanks!


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: (joelmahoney)*

Accurate enough to keep your catalytic converter working, and hopefully let you pass smog. That's all an NB sensor is really for. Heated NB sensors are more accurate, but they still are really only for keeping the cat working.


----------



## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: (angusmf)*

Definitely invest in a wideband controller and sensor if you plan to make any real power with your turbo setup.. Better safe than sorry.. NB sensors tend to give funky readings with a turbo under boost etc since they only work accurately at a specific temp range.
Bruce posted on the MS list the other day that the schematics and plans for the UMS wideband controller portion will be released in a few days if you were waiting for that.
Also suggested that UMS may appear as early as May.. yay!


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (ijcameron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ijcameron* »_
I have a question about the Megatweak program - if I datalog and upload the data to Megatweak, it will accept the data and say "341 crossover points found", but won't plot the points on the graph, and nothing else happens. What am I doing wrong?

Aww, turns out I need to log in "full" mode in Megatune - "classic" and "raw" just didn't work for me.
Doesn't matter anyway, my car is stinking rich and blowing gas out the exhaust in huge white clouds - not sure what I've done, hopefully a bad injector, not a bad motor.


----------



## toplessvw (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

check it out brent picasso is now selling some megajolt lite kits
http://picasso.org/mjlj/
looks good hopefully some one with a vw does this before me so I can steal ideas not being the sharpest knife in the block


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (toplessvw)*

Wideband O2!
http://www.megasquirt2.com/PWC/
EDIT: But the calibration looks like a killer










_Modified by ijcameron at 8:07 PM 3-4-2004_


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

Better to have a killer calibration than an inaccurate result, IMO.







Reading Bruce's stuff makes me glad I waited.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

Looks like people will be offering calibrated sensors though.. good stuff.


----------



## trailbo555 (Jul 2, 2001)

ford edis componets on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...&rd=1


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (trailbo555)*

I posted I was having problems with the map sensor... yea I totally had it installed backwards. Turns out I did not get to step ~60 or so when i installed the map sensor soon enough. The beers





















had grasped me and the picture was no longer informing me of the proper orientation. Anyways







Its going in the car this week









Anyone use stock CIS-E for ignition and let megasquirt control fuel? I have looked into letting megasquirt control the stock VW ignition components, but if I can get away with CIS-E for a little bit I would like to use that. Thanks










_Modified by CrackerX at 11:04 AM 3-10-2004_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

Glad you got it figured out! I can't see why you couldn't do what you describe, just grab the tach signal for the MS from the green wire on the ignition module and you should be good.
Once I figure out what crank trigger I'm using, mine's going in.


----------



## j a y (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

for anyone who is interested, here is my megasquirtAVR project...
I'm a couple of days away from running on msavr... right now its running in limp mode off of EDIS ignition
http://www.squirrelpf.com/msav...tilla


----------



## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (j a y)*

What did you use to mount the pickup?


----------



## j a y (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

I made a bracket.. not sure if you can see it in those pictures i posted before...
but here is another one:
http://voytilla.com/photo/gal/vw/P2280021.JPG 
it was kinda hard to do.. This was my technique...
There are two tapped holes in the engine block that were empty. I made a plate to bolt into them. Then welded a post to it and bolted it to the block. Then i clamped on the edis gear to the pulley.. I then made a plate that bolts down the sensor. Then i placed the sensor up to the gear, with a shim in between the gear and the sensor.. Since it is magnetic, it kinda stayed there. I then superglued the plate with the sensor to the post.. waited for it to dry and then welded it all together...








then i set the engine to TDC, and figured out what angle the gear needed to be mounted relative to the sensor..
First time i started the engine up, it back fired through the intake.. I had the gear 180 degrees out... Once i fixed that.. it started right up!


----------



## moneymakin (Sep 14, 2003)

*1.8t 20v swap, how to use factory coils w/ms n spark or edis??*

I am doing a big turbo 1.8t swap in my 88 jetta and it seems that megaquirt would greatly ease my wiring and fueling problems. But what about ignition?? I read this entire thread, but no one seems to have used megasquirt on a 1.8t yet....
The 1.8t has a crank sensor (g28) also called the engine rpm sensor that reads off of a toothed wheel inside the motor, and also has a camshaft position sensor (g40) that looks like a hall effect sensor with one window. One or both of these sensors appear to provide the factory ecu with the data to determine ignition outputs.
The older 1.8t has an ignition setup with 4 coils, and an ignitor. There are 4 wires going from the ignitor to the ECU. The newer 1.8t setup appears to have the ECU directly fire each coil without the ignitor.
I am confident that megasquirt can fuel this motor but any ideas on how I can use the inputs from the 1.8t's cam and crank sensors to fire these coils and be able to control timing and have boost retard?? I don't think that the factory 1.8t ECU will like not having control over the fuel if it is still controlling the spark. And I would rather not use it at all anyways. What about an MSD or after market ignition controller, can they control the ignition independantly??

Thanks for any help or ideas.
Ryan


----------



## angusmf (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: 1.8t 20v swap, how to use factory coils w/ms n spark or edis?? (moneymakin)*

I don't think there is code for MS that will run your ignition with the existing trigger wheels and coils. You'd have to convert over to EDIS.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 1.8t 20v swap, how to use factory coils w/ms n spark or edis?? (angusmf)*

To add, there is no support for multitooth wheels with the MS in general. The only option for multitooth is the 36-1 wheel with the EDIS setup off a Ford. The EDIS module is setup to do wheel decoding and interfaces with MSnS nicely. That just means that you'll have to leave your stock trigger unused and run a 36tooth trigger on the crank pulley. 
UltraMegasquirt is supposed to have multi/missing tooth support, but it's obviously not out yet.


----------



## j a y (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: 1.8t 20v swap, how to use factory coils w/ms n spark or edis?? (need_a_VR6)*

What you should check out is the next version of MegasquirtAVR. it is a branch off project that has made some serious improvements over the standard megasquirt. The will shortly be shipping version 3 boards, which will handle input from 4 hall /vr sensors, onboard Wideband O2, and tons of other features...
I'm currently running MSAVR board 2.2. It even has a LCD display and built in keyboard port which allows you to tune your car with no laptop required.
check out the website for more info.
http://www.squirrelpf.com/msavr/
There is a guy on this site who is doing a VR6 using alot of the stock sensors.. Check his page at
http://www.squirrelpf.com/msav...ranks


----------



## 95jettamk3 (Apr 26, 2003)

hi,i have a 88 cupe with a 97 vr6 obdII,i am in the process of doing a a turbo set up on it,i was gonna do fmu,chip,fpr,butt this looks like a lot btter way to do it,only question i have is how wuold u use the ignition,would i have to keep my ecu,or use my coil packs,any help would be apreciated ,thank you


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (95jettamk3)*

Check the Carb/ITB/SEM forum, I just answered the same question posted by darren p.


----------



## 95jettamk3 (Apr 26, 2003)

thank you


----------



## j a y (Jun 16, 2003)

*ignition map help*

Hello,
hopefully all the megasquirt guys and programmable efi people can help me out here
I need to come up with a ignition curve to run on my 1.8 gti...
I have no clue were to start.. does anyone have a stock vw dist mapped or could point me in the right direction?
Thanks!


----------



## diablerouge (Mar 30, 2004)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

got a couple of questions about ms-avr that i couldn't find answers to on the ms-avr site.
1. what type of injectors (hi/low z) should i use with it? i can use both, right?
2. what do i use to program it? the same stuff thats out there for ms?
3. what kind of results are you guys getting with it on forced induction? same power levels as other standalones?


----------



## j a y (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (diablerouge)*

1. Since it has an onboard injector flyback circuit, you can use hi or lo impedence injectors with now further modifications...
2. You also use the same software to tune it (megatune). There are some more advanced features that can't be adjusted using megatune, and for this you can use the built in keyboard / LCD display or a terminal program.. Things like the ignition table are not available using megatune but there is actually a way to trick megatune so it does show/tune them..
3. I dont know specifically about forced induction, but i don't see any reason why msavr wouldn't work as good or better then standard megasquirt.. they both use the same MAP sensor for intake pressure..
hope that helps!


----------



## diablerouge (Mar 30, 2004)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (j a y)*

actually i meant other standalones as in sds, haltec, etc.
who all is running ms-avr? what are your applications (na/fi)? how much power are you getting out of it?
ms-avr v3 seems like a much better alternative to plain ms, why did those of you who use ms choose it instead of ms-avr?


----------



## diablerouge (Mar 30, 2004)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (diablerouge)*

sh*t i forgot to ask- can you do datalogging with the ms-avr the same as standard ms? datalogging is an incredibly helpful feature when tuning... instead of staring at the laptop screen to keep an eye on things while going wot and slamming into something...


----------



## j a y (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (diablerouge)*

yeah, all the logging features are also in place.. Although i have yet to take advantage of them, since i've only been up and running a day or so now..


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (j a y)*

Well I got my megasquirt installed and running....























EXCEPT it runs like total crap.... lol 
Maybe I should get some Digi II injectors... currently my 60Lb injectors are running at a 1.4% duty cycle when I am tring to idle with my throttle about 6% open... When running I have about 38psi fuel pressure.
Also, my tach signal jumps around and at 1000 - 2000 RPM it jumps up to 5 or higher RPM and misses and stuff. I installed the "dave" capacitor and that helped but I think I need a new Cap and set of plug wires.
Anyways, im playing around and so far its pretty cool







Opinions welcome as to what I should do... lol


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CrackerX)*

More power to ya for getting it running.
I would suggest sizing your injectors to your engine if you want to get a smooth idle. It will also help with fine tuning the VE (Volumetric Efficiency) table, especially under partial load (like when trying to cruise 35 mph). I have an 80 HP motor that I put Corrado G60 injectors in - it was very hard to fine tune. I switched to Digifant II injectors (shipped for $20 with new seals!) and it funs great.
As far as tuning, warm it up to operating temps, then I'd make sure that the VE table looks pretty rich across the board, and then take it to MegaTweak to fine tune it.
Here's some tips: to datalog with Megatune - datalog as "full" - "classic" and "raw" can't be read in Megatweak. 
***Turn off accel enrichment by going to "Settings" >>> "Enrichment" >>>set TPSdotThreshold =40.
*** Goto Settings>>Enrichment and set EGO switch point = 0.5, ignition events per step = 12 , EGO step (%) = 3, EGO +/- limit =75%( these settings will give you a lot of data points that the Megatweak 3000 program can use - every time the O2 sensor swings between rich and lean is recorded by Megatweak as a datapoint).
When you've got all of this set up, start logging in the low part of your map, like <3000 rpm and <60 MAP. Drive around for about 5 minutes, then save your datalog , close Megatune and open Megatweak (go to Edit>>>Settings and set all of the constants like it says in the Megatweak manual).
In Megatweak:
*Open your datalog (File>>>Open Datalog) and then go to *Edit>>>Modify VE MAP. Then go to 
*MS CPU>>>Read VE Map. This will download your most recent VE map onto the Megatweak screen. 
*Then hit the button on the right hand side of the screen that says "filter datalog", and then hit "calculate map". This will give you the new, refined VE MAP. 
*Then go to MS CPU >>Send VE Map to upload the new VE Map onto the Megasquirt unit....and keep going!
There's a few other ways to refine your tuning map, but this is the easiest way (and most fun!) that I know of. 
Also, don't forget to reset all the MS "enrichments" (o2 switch point TPSdot etc) back to what they should be when you are done tuning.
As far as your wandering tach, I would fix that - it's hard to tune when the injector output is so up and down. the Dave Cap worked great for me.


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

wow, thanks for the post







I will definitly give that a try as soon as I pick up some Digi II injectors... Reason I went ahead and got 60's is because I plan on running a turbo soon.
Anyone running an NA 16V? Do you think Digi II injectors will work? OR should I get some g60's ...
I started messing with megatweak some, thats some great info on how to do it though, saves me a lot of time from figuring it out!!!! some














for you!


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## aventari (Jul 25, 2000)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CrackerX)*

I just built one and it's testing out great on the stim, I'm really excited








I WOULD put it on my scirocco, but smog laws in CA being what they are, I'm not going to be able to. 
Instead I'm going to run it on my 71 BMW 2002, and turbo it after I get MS running


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## j a y (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (aventari)*

Here is something that i ran into...
I'm running digifant injectors.. i had a hard time getting it to idle smooth, and not run too rich..
by defualt, megasquirt injects 4 times a cycle.. that was way too much, and the injectors couldn't handle the speed required.. I dropped it down to 2 injections per cycle.. that made a huge improvement.. I then also set it to alternate injections, which helped even more...
Since i don't know how much more the g60's flow, i don't know if the above could be your problem, or the fact that they are too large...
Congrats on getting you megasquirt running though!


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (j a y)*


_Quote »_
Since i don't know how much more the g60's flow, i don't know if the above could be your problem, or the fact that they are too large...

G60 injectors are #26 for those who'd like to know.
I'm planning to run 42# on my 16vG60, I'll have to remember alternating and 2 injections per cycle.


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## j a y (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (OttawaG60)*

have people had good sucess tuning without the use of a wide band meter?
i have a feeling i will need to purchase one.. but don't really want to drop all the money..
there are some cheap ones ($300) on ebay, but i don't know what to think of them


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (j a y)*

I've tuned mine pretty well wtih the narrow band o2. I wanted to go a little richer at WOT/high revs, so what I did was add 10% to the calculated value (Megatweak will give you stoichiometric values ie 14.7:1) to richen it a little.
This is for a NA motor. On a turbo motor, I would definitely go to wideband. There is a new brand out there that does a bunch of data logging, don't rememeber the brand, but it looks real cool is only $350 shipped with the sensor and software..


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*

Why not use the MS WB?
http://www.megasquirt2.com/PWC/index.htm


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## j a y (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (OttawaG60)*

well i'm running the megasquirt-avr board... not that it means i can't run the ms wideband..
the new version of megasquirt-avr actually has wideband built in and knock sensing and a bunch of other things.. i have version 2.2, and don't feel like converting since i just got it done...


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (OttawaG60)*

The MS Wideband isn't available yet - I've been hearing "coming soon" for a while. It'll probably be the cat's meow when the final version is released, but I'm not sure I can wait that long! I think April/May/June is when it's meant to be released - we'll see.
Here's the link to the WBO2 I'm dreaming about: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/index.html
It's $349- shipped, which sounds kind of steep, but locally it's $150- an hour for dyno tuning, and I can ebay the unit when I'm finished (this is how I'll explain it to the wife!).


_Modified by ijcameron at 10:19 AM 4-8-2004_


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## sold on expense (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ijcameron* »_
It's $349- shipped, which sounds kind of steep, but locally it's $150- an hour for dyno tuning, and I can ebay the unit when I'm finished (this is how I'll explain it to the wife!).


But considering how much the sensor kits used to be, that's a pretty kick-ass deal...definitely a complement buy to Megasquirt. Is it just me, or are all the megasquirt pages a wee bit confusing? I'm on the internet all the time, reading n'shiz, but I think it'll take three weeks for me to figure out how to buy Megasquirt-AVR, how to hook up ignition control, and how to get a 3-bar map sensor in there.


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (sold on expense)*

Lol man, its a LOT of reading... 
Just so you know if you order everything for the megasquirt 2.2 kit or the "newest" one you will get a 33psi map sensor. 3bar? i dont know the conversion... wish I knew that one off the top of my head though. 2.54cm=1inch? hehe 
As for ignition control I would recommend buying a seperate unit and just hooking up a tach wire to the megasquirt. Im running stock CIS-E ignintion right now and it works fine.
Man you think reading on trying to put it together is tough, the enrichments page, the constants page, the VE table.... you have to read and figure all these little fields out before your car is tuned right. Going to school full time + 2 part time jobs = not a lot of patience!! But im slowly figuring it out.... I dont know where I would be without the tips ijcameron gave me... Anyways, the car runs MUCH better with Digi II injectors running at about 22lb hr vs 60lb hr...


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## sold on expense (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (CrackerX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CrackerX* »_Lol man, its a LOT of reading... 
Just so you know if you order everything for the megasquirt 2.2 kit or the "newest" one you will get a 33psi map sensor. 3bar? i dont know the conversion... wish I knew that one off the top of my head though. 2.54cm=1inch? hehe 
As for ignition control I would recommend buying a seperate unit and just hooking up a tach wire to the megasquirt. Im running stock CIS-E ignintion right now and it works fine.


Good to know about the map sensor...one that could support 33 psi would be a 3 bar sensor (15 psi atmospheric pressure + 30 psi of boost = 45 psi or 3 bar). About the ignition, standalone ignition boxes (MSD) are expensive...something like $500, so that sort of negates the cost-effectiveness of megasquirt...add in the $200 of parts and you're up to $700, only a few hundred short of SDS or a cheap DTA system, not to mention a used TEC2 system. I liked the idea of using MSnS, just don't know if it integrates the same way with MS-AVR as it does with the regular megasquirt. If I were running an N/A setup, I'd probably keep the stock ignition, it would do the job probably as well as I could program. But with boost and a very custom engine, I'd be back to chip-tuning for Digifant just for timing maps, which again sort of negates the idea of tuneability. I don't think ultra megasquirt will be released in the next year, so that idea is out, but MSnS certainly seemed like a perfect setup.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (sold on expense)*

I wanted to use CIS-E as ign also...but the low revlimiter killed that idea for me.


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (sold on expense)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sold on expense* »_
Good to know about the map sensor...one that could support 33 psi would be a 3 bar sensor (15 psi atmospheric pressure + 30 psi of boost = 45 psi or 3 bar) .

Not quite. If it's rated to 30 PSI, that's 2 bar. Since normal atmospheric pressure is 15 psi (1 bar), a 2 bar MAP sensor only supports 1 bar (15 psi) of boost.
Also, unless the kits have changed, the regular Megasquirt MAP sensor supports ~20 psi of boost.


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## sold on expense (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ijcameron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ijcameron* »_
Not quite. If it's rated to 30 PSI, that's 2 bar. Since normal atmospheric pressure is 15 psi (1 bar), a 2 bar MAP sensor only supports 1 bar (15 psi) of boost.
Also, unless the kits have changed, the regular Megasquirt MAP sensor supports ~20 psi of boost.

I was assuming he meant it supported 33 psi of boost, not one bar for atmospheric and another for boost. Maybe I was off..shouldn't really matter, with a 16v head I'm not going to be pushing past 15 psi of boost with a 58mm pulley.


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## GeoffVR6 (Feb 16, 2002)

A big ol' "Just ran my Scirocco for the first time on megasquirt tonight" Bump!


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (GeoffVR6)*

Anyone have O2 problems?
Mines reading .196v soild, no matter what I do.


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## j a y (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttawaG60* »_Anyone have O2 problems?
Mines reading .196v soild, no matter what I do.

sounds strange.. it should read 0 when you start up, and rise from there as it heats up.. what happens if you disconnect it? it should read 0...
usually if there is a wiring problem it will read 0 or full bore...
i guess try to rule out the ms board or the sensor..
i had a couple issues with components on my board being bad, causing incorrect readings


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (j a y)*


_Quote, originally posted by *j a y* »_
sounds strange.. it should read 0 when you start up, and rise from there as it heats up.. what happens if you disconnect it? it should read 0...
usually if there is a wiring problem it will read 0 or full bore...
i guess try to rule out the ms board or the sensor..
i had a couple issues with components on my board being bad, causing incorrect readings

Did some testing last night, sensor was working fine on Friday, I have an A/F gauge and it reacted normally.
Now after the MS install, neither the gauge nor the megaTune are showing any changes.
Starts at .196v and stays there, even if I change req fuel or wait for the car to warm up.
I managed to tune the car by ear to get it to idlle nicely.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

update, seems that I can't have both and A/F gauge and the MS reading from the same sensor.
I removed the A/F gauge and it's now updating, but doesn't seem all that accurate, I'm gonna look into grounds and software next (as well as disconnect the A/F signal and put it to a voltmeter)


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

The O2 will fluctuate if you are idling, but hold the RPMS above 1400 and you should get a fairly steady reading... something to work with. I had a fairly interesting time trying to figure out how to get my car all tuned up to, but in the end it was worth it.
Also, seriously consider getting a wideband sensor and control unit.. SOO much more accurate and easy to read. Well worth the cost http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (CrackerX)*

WB-02 is in the process of being built


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

Did the O2 even read funny after the car had been running for awhile? Your O2 heater or single wire?


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

3 wire (heated)
I've driven around for at least 10-15 minutes, still acts weird.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

Definitely check the grounds. You might not have a good ground connection to the sensor body if you're using O2 safe antisieze on the threads.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

O2 was reading fine on Friday, pre-megasquirt.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

Strange. If you're running a relay board, make sure you're cable is good on the O2 wires. Might have a cold joint.


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## dsamj (Jun 18, 2002)

*Squirt n' Spark on a 2.0 ABA*

I've just ordered a bunch of parts for the MS main board, relay board, stimulator, and MegaView, and will be assembling it shortly for use in my 94 2.0L ABA. Have any of you had success so far with the MS setup on this car? Any "heads ups" with any of the existing sensors? Or is it worth just getting all the easily found/cheap GM sensors? Also, will the Spark component of the system work with my ignition module and coil? I've heard that some people have run into problems with their ignition modules on their turbo setups...however I'm NA for now. In addition, I think I'm going to pick up the parts necessary to build the lambda wide-band oxygen sensor controller, however I'm a bit frightened at the description of how to calibrate these things from the MegaSquirt website, and the cost involved in doing so. Can anyone comment on this? Or can I get a widebide oxygen sensor pre-calibrated from somewhere? 
Thanks in advance,
Sam


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## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Squirt n' Spark on a 2.0 ABA (dsamj)*

Order the innovative motorsports wideband controller or the techedge <i use the techedge with my MSnS setup>, http://www.wbo2.com
They just came out with a new preassembled version and new software that looks good
MSnS isnt as hard as it looks to setup and works fine.. and would give you boost ignition retard.
I just posted in another thread int he ITB/Carb forum on how to setup MegasquirtNspark with a VW


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## dsamj (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: Squirt n' Spark on a 2.0 ABA (CdnDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CdnDub* »_Order the innovative motorsports wideband controller or the techedge <i use the techedge with my MSnS setup>, http://www.wbo2.com
They just came out with a new preassembled version and new software that looks good
MSnS isnt as hard as it looks to setup and works fine.. and would give you boost ignition retard.
I just posted in another thread int he ITB/Carb forum on how to setup MegasquirtNspark with a VW 

Woah, thanks for the tip...that techedge setup looks awesome (and I really like the idea of DIY) Did you order the pre-built or the DIY? If you ordered the DIY, how hard was the assembly? I don't imagine it could be any harder than the MSnS? Also, I don't understand why the techedge wideband works straight "out of the box" so-to-speak, while the MegaWideband controller requires costly calibration of the wideband o2 sensor. Am I missing something here?
Thanks,
Sam


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Squirt n' Spark on a 2.0 ABA (dsamj)*

I have the Techedge DIY kit and it was definitely "harder" then the MS to build mostly because the instruction just were non existent. It didn't do a nice step by step like the MS had where the component locations were exactly, etc. Also all the parts are mixed up so I had to really watch what I was doing or I'd grab the wrong resistor. The way digikey packs things made that alot easier. Being said, I'd still rather DIY over the prebuilt.


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## dsamj (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: Squirt n' Spark on a 2.0 ABA (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_I have the Techedge DIY kit and it was definitely "harder" then the MS to build mostly because the instruction just were non existent. It didn't do a nice step by step like the MS had where the component locations were exactly, etc. Also all the parts are mixed up so I had to really watch what I was doing or I'd grab the wrong resistor. The way digikey packs things made that alot easier. Being said, I'd still rather DIY over the prebuilt.

Thanks for the info...I think I'll give it a try none-the-less. Are you happy with the finished product? Is the software decent, etc? What o2 sensor did you end up going with?
Thanks,
Sam


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## Junkyardrabbit (Jul 7, 2003)

I am very interested in using msns, but had a couple simple q's. How much do you think this would cost me as I would be supporting 20 psi of boost and am comming off CIS. With the cost of injectors and all typical efi components added to the parts, dyno time or wide band, will I be able to do this for under $1000.00


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Junkyardrabbit)*

I'm happy with the TE 2.0, it was just more time consuming then I thought it would be. If I had to do it over, I'd still DIY, but only becuase I enjoy that sort of thing. Got it all up and running in one shot, using the VW 7057 sensor ($30 at 10% over dealer cost). I still haven't used the free software with it so I can't comment. That extra cost software does look rather nice and I'll pick it up when I get a chance.
I'm setting up a Rabbit GTI now with MSnS and doing the same thing. I've found Mopar injectors rather cheap (32ea for a Super60 upgrade for an older turbo car) that are 52lb @ 58psi, plenty for 250 or so whp. The only other things you'll need is a non vac distributor, and a few temp sensors from a digi or xflow car a fuel rail, etc. With the MS setup being about $250 or so, injectors another $130, misc another $100, etc, etc. I think you'll come in way under. You can do another $250 for a DIY wideband and tune it yourself about 90-95% of the way on the street to save on dyno tuning time.


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Is TechEdge still in business? Their Yahoo msg board still gets replies from Peter Gargano, but I cannot for the life of me bring up their website to order one.
Oh, and I kept a spreadsheet of my Megasquirt build - injectors, fuel rail, computer, etc etc came in at about $500, that's without a wideband and I tuned it myself.
EDIT: Nevermind, I got it to come up on my work computer - it's http://www.wbo2.com . My home firewall must be blocking them.


_Modified by ijcameron at 11:09 AM 6-23-2004_


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## diygti (May 4, 2001)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttawaG60* »_3 wire (heated)
I've driven around for at least 10-15 minutes, still acts weird.


It is normal for it to fluctuate like that. I was worried when I saw that also, but was re-asured on the MS forums that its just normal cycling of the sensor. It does this on mine on the freeway at 4500 rpm. It should be stable at WOT though.


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## arvcube (Aug 11, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (stevelangford)*

so how are everybody's MS setups doing? im still waiting for mine to come in...takin forever...up to the top


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## Steve44 (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (arvcube)*

hey where is everyone taking map readings from. i tried a port off the throttle body and and the large port on the rear of the manifold where the brake booster hooks up. idle is around 40 kpa i throttle up good, but then the map reading stays high, around 60. Shut the car off, start again and im back around 40. Any thoughts?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Steve44)*

MAP reading should be from the manifold. It also should rise with more throttle, and on an NA car WOT should be around 100kpa give or take about 10kpa.


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## Steve44 (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (need_a_VR6)*

it does rise with throttle, but it doesn't come back down. Stays at approx. 60kpa off throttle. What location on the manifold are you using. Different locations (TB and brake booster port) give me different readings by about 10 kpa.


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## GeoffVR6 (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (arvcube)*


_Quote, originally posted by *arvcube* »_so how are everybody's MS setups doing? im still waiting for mine to come in...takin forever...up to the top

Mine has been working quite well for me. I have about 9000 miles on it now with no major problems. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GeoffVR6 (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Steve44)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Steve44* »_hey where is everyone taking map readings from. i tried a port off the throttle body and and the large port on the rear of the manifold where the brake booster hooks up. idle is around 40 kpa i throttle up good, but then the map reading stays high, around 60. Shut the car off, start again and im back around 40. Any thoughts?

You must take the MAP reading from the manifold as need_a_VR6 stated.


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## Steve44 (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (GeoffVR6)*

obviously the MAP sensor would have to be connected to the manifold but where? Do you guys make your own port or do you use an existing one? I have tried two locations, right after the throttle body and of the brake booster vac port. Neither give me consistent readings.


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## Steve44 (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Steve44)*

Nevermind figured it out, tapped new holes in the manifold. Started up finally, had the distributor way to far advanced. Replaced idle air motor with a block of aluminium. Holds vac well.


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## ikonwun (Oct 26, 2002)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (Steve44)*

does any one have one set up for sale i dont want to wait 4-6 weeks then build time... this is the last part to my turbo set up ( took off cis) ?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (ikonwun)*

I have a V1 ecu I'm not using. It would be perfect if you're looking for fuel only and not too many of the -extra options. Not sure what MAP sensor it has though, shoot me a PM with an offer.


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## DutchJetta (Jan 29, 2003)

Hi guys, have been playing with my MS, upgrading to the extra software, has ran on it good. Now doesn't want to start and keep running, just firing up now and then. The tach really jumps around and I saw that the big resistor in the ignition input circuit looks kinda burnt. Have you guys modified the ignition input circuit? I'm triggering directly from the - side of the coil.
Thanks.


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## DutchJetta (Jan 29, 2003)

Seems like I had a bit of a flat battery, now it runs as before. Low voltage will crank the engine but the ignition spikes that bad MS will never know you're cranking (<300 rpm).


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## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

_Modified by mechsoldier at 9:47 AM 4-28-2005_


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## diddle (Nov 6, 2004)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*

I just ordered the stuff to assemble the megasquirt board, but I am still a little confused on what all is needed under the hood to run this thing?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (diddle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *diddle* »_I just ordered the stuff to assemble the megasquirt board, but I am still a little confused on what all is needed under the hood to run this thing?









Ignition trigger from distributor for spark, from coil for fuel only
Coolant temp sensor
Intake air temp sensor
Throttle position sensor
Some sort of vacuum refrence for the ECU
EFI injectors, one or more 
Ignition system, stock or other
Pretty much it.


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## diddle (Nov 6, 2004)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I just needed to see it in a list like that.


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## glibobbo21 (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: (DutchJetta)*

anyone who orders this stuff, including megaview dont forget you gotta buy the lcd screen form a diff company...and the link on the MS website is dead now...look up the p/n in google...but its about 90 bucks


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## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

im buyin a complete MS2nEDIS assembled kit from a friend it's all new and have to install it on a high boost 2l 16v ported head short runner intake 42 lbs injectors custom exh, mani. and custom T3/T4
ill post the results and some pics in a few weeks when it will be there and installed


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (PeOpLeG60T)*

I've decided to take the plunge and buy a kit. I definitely want a MSnS kit. I haven't found anything about buying a UMS kit though? Are they available.
now that I'll be on the graveyard shift at work I guess I'll put our super expensive soldering station to the test since I'll have tons of free time:laugh:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (vdubspeed)*

UMS is not available and MS2 will become available pretty soon but won't have all the features that MS1 has with the -extra code for quite some time. Still will be pretty cool as there is plenty of room to grow.


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## westendtruck (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: Official megasquirt post (angusmf)*

whree is the IAT located on the 01 jetta 2.0?


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## Sony487 (Jun 10, 2007)

I'm runing a non turbo 16v in my mk1 and it ran fine but now whey start up it's dying real fast unless I hold the gas and let it warup for 20 seconds or so. Is this something with the warmup enrichment or something else to try and change to fix this problem? I think my water pump is going so ill need to change that and i asnt sure if maybe that might be a contributing problem or if its just some fine tuning i need to do. Any help would be great thanks!


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## napkin (Mar 8, 2008)

can someone please post their VEtable on a VR6 turbo with good boost?
or does someone know a caclulator that supports up to 30psi boost and 500bhp?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Turn on afr target, populate afr table and make all cells over 120kpa 100s and tune down fuel from there a little at a time. 

You probably won't find a tuned ve table for 30psi for any motor for free and even if you do, its probably not wise to load it unless you know the exact details of the setup vs yours.


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