# Extended 5th gear?



## themagellan (Mar 30, 2007)

Not sure if this has been covered, but is there any direct/easy replacement for the 5th gear on a 2.5 yet?
I'm thinking of low rpms in 5th gear here.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Extended 5th gear? (themagellan)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
That would be so cool...I'm thinking of cruise at 70 somewhere between 2000-2500 RPM? Think of the gas mileage this thing could get!


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## stangg172006 (Jul 21, 2006)

dreaming is free...


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

did you really buy a 2.5 because of the fuel economy?
i for one enjoy using 5th gear to accelerate at normal (legal) speeds. just keep it under 3400 rpm ~80mph and there isn't any real decline in economy. maybe 1 mpg?
when is the last time you checked your tire pressure?


_Modified by kungfoojesus at 10:13 AM 2-4-2010_


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## vw93to85 (May 10, 2007)

*Re: Extended 5th gear? (themagellan)*

You'd be changing two gears, one on the input shaft and one on the output shaft. I'd love to see this done as well. I hate holding the engine at 3,500 rpms on the highway. It just seems like a lot of stress on it. But it seems like a ton of work.


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## Schagephonic (Feb 5, 2009)

*Re: Extended 5th gear? (vw93to85)*

I know that I've seen tall 5th gears offered for 1.8T's offered but I've long since deleted that link since I've sold my 1.8T. Try Googling the gear for the 1.8T and then contact the mfr. to see if they do custom work or if the 1.8T gears would work. Good luck with the project. I'd like to have taller gearing on my Tippy, but don't know if its even possible. Probably a major PITA.


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## themagellan (Mar 30, 2007)

*Re: (kungfoojesus)*

No I didn't buy a 2.5 for the fuel economy, nor will I for the same reason. I don't own a rabbit was just curious, as I have done this with my mk2 and it improved engine noise/MPG very simply. Just wanted to throw the idea out there for you all.

Just something to think about for all you 2.5 guys who are disappointed with the MPGs.

And it would be substantially better than 1mpg, especially when driving at speeds over 65.


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## dogsanddubs (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: (themagellan)*

i've wondered if any taller tdi 5th gear would work in our gearbox.
maybe something will get sorted by the time i can afford a lsd.


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## skorost' (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: (dogsanddubs)*

This would be an awesome mod if someone would sell the gear as a kit, since tracking this part down is a bit a pain. Had this done on my old 02 1.8t and it made a HUGE difference. Would do in a heart beat if made available.


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## BlackRabbit_08 (Sep 13, 2008)

6 speeds from the MK4 bolt right into our 2.5's. I actually just bought a 6 speed out of a MK4 GLI and will be putting it in around mid April.


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## dmgraz (Jan 3, 2008)

really?!? the mkiv trannys bolt up to the 2.5. Is it a complete swap or is their modding to be done. How about the $200andsomething bucks i've spent on bushings, endlinks, and a short shift. Do they swap over too?


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## b1aCkDeA7h (May 27, 2008)

*Re: (BlackRabbit_08)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlackRabbit_08* »_6 speeds from the MK4 bolt right into our 2.5's. I actually just bought a 6 speed out of a MK4 GLI and will be putting it in around mid April.

VR6 or 1.8T or does it not matter?


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## MaxVW (Nov 4, 2004)

tdi 5th gear?


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## BlackRabbit_08 (Sep 13, 2008)

I got a transmission for a 1.8T but I could work for a VR6 as well. Not sure about endlinks short throw and bushings but from what I have been told its a fairly easy swap and their is some modification of course. Like I said it will be a few months before I start the swap.


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (BlackRabbit_08)*

i was told i can do a TDi 5th gear to get the rpms down onthe highway. just gotta pay someone to take the tranny apart and put it in


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (Brabbit32)*

well i ordered my .681 5th gear set saturday. 330 bucks shipped new. And my local VW shop said an hour MAX for install. Should drop my 80mph rpms from like 3400 to 2700-2800!


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## skorost' (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: (Brabbit32)*

Where did you buy your gear at? Make sure that you update everyone once installed, to let us know what you think, and if it is worth it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (skorost')*

the 5th gear was ordered from boraparts.com. ill post up asap the gears should be here weds ill have them installed for the weekend


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (Brabbit32)*

main reasojn im doing this is because im runnin 205/45-16's on staggered 8" 9" BBS RS's and at 80 im taching about 3400, at 90 about 4000. no good for highway cruising. not to mention once turboed that is one hella long 5th


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## VDubGTi08 (Jan 31, 2008)

*Re: (Brabbit32)*

Only an hr to R&R a trans as well as disassemble and assemble one? Maybe im not reading into this correctly?


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (VDubGTi08)*

u dont have to take the tranny out. All you have to do is drop the tranny down a inch or two and take the side cover off, the 5th gear is right there!


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (Brabbit32)*

turns out he is waiting for a shipment of gears to come in so itll be a lil longer. GAY


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## Cabrio60 (Oct 14, 2006)

Boraparts now has the .658 5th gear on sale for $298 shipped... if this part works out well for you, I'm definitely getting it... cruising at 80mph can be quite loud w/ AWE exhaust!


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (Cabrio60)*

tell me about it im running a usp test pipe with one magnaflow muffler on r32 tips. DRONEEEEEEE


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (Brabbit32)*

i did the math and the .658 is going to be too long of a gear for the rabbits. the .681 is a better choice, you looking at a 800-1000rpm drop from ur stock 5th gear.


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## Cabrio60 (Oct 14, 2006)

Thanks for the heads up, I don't want it to drop so low that I lose a lot of passing power.


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (Cabrio60)*

ended up changing my order to a .717 gear cuz the 681's were on back order, got them sat installing tomorrow night. ill post after!


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## define your self (May 23, 2009)

*Re: Extended 5th gear? (themagellan)*

whats the stock gear ratio?


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: Extended 5th gear? (define your self)*

the stock is like a .890 or something


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## ocellaris (Sep 6, 2009)

*Re: Extended 5th gear? (Brabbit32)*

I am really curious to see how this turns out. I do not see a difference between cruising at 65 or 73 MPG. Same goes for running flat or driving through the Appalachian mountains. I am pretty much locked in between 31 and 32 MPG highway as long as I keep the car moving in 5th gear and use the cruise control. The engines seem pretty damn efficient over 3K RPM, and people running with 6 speed autos (w/ a much taller 6th gear) and do not seem to be putting down better highway MPG numbers anyway.
My biggest drop in highway MPG has been from driving in cold weather below freezing.
_Modified by ocellaris at 7:56 PM 4-5-2010_


_Modified by ocellaris at 7:58 PM 4-5-2010_


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## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (Brabbit32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Brabbit32* »_u dont have to take the tranny out. All you have to do is drop the tranny down a inch or two and take the side cover off, the 5th gear is right there!

This is exactly how to change the 5th gear on the A1 GTI.
This was a popular mod on these cars not because of poor mileage, but because they were so noisy on the highway. The 5th gear on that version of the 020 gearbox was 0.91. People figured out that the 0.717 5th from the Rabbit Diesel fit, and the 0.76 from the "4+E" 5 speed. 
I put the 0.71 in my '83, which had the 3.94 final drive. Early cars with the 3.89 final drive were better suited to the 0.76, although 5th gear became petty useless around town after the conversion. Nobody seemed to mind staying in 4th until 50mph since the car was so much fun.


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (brian81)*

mine is going in tonight, ill post later!


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## dmgraz (Jan 3, 2008)

i've been looking into this gear swap, any way to tell how much the rpms will drop with the different gear ratios? I also looked it up IAW bentley manual 0a4 transmissions have a .769 gear ratio for 5th gear. in case anyone wanted to know exactly.


_Modified by dmgraz at 9:39 PM 4-8-2010_


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## lokijetta (Oct 19, 2009)

DIY anyone?
Thanks in advance
LJ


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (lokijetta)*

well here it is, put the .717 gear set in last night. 
Previously at 80mph i was at 3600rpms Now at 3000rpms.
Cruising at 75mph at 2800rpms.
40mph=1500rpms
in our 02J/02A trannys we have a .829 gear i believe.


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## M3NTAL Kev (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: (dmgraz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmgraz* »_i've been looking into this gear swap, any way to tell how much the rpms will drop with the different gear ratios? I also looked it up IAW bentley manual 0a4 transmissions have a .769 gear ratio for 5th gear. in case anyone wanted to know exactly.

_Modified by dmgraz at 9:39 PM 4-8-2010_

Seems like it depends on which year... 
http://www.vw.com/preloved/use...ering 
http://www.vw.com/preloved/use...ering 
BTW, I put together this quick spreadsheet to calculate speed and revs in each gear.
http://www.m3ntal.com/ManOverBored/


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## dmgraz (Jan 3, 2008)

This mod is great. big ups Brabbit for doing it big. How can i tell what transmission i have, i've been going by the bentley manual which says 0A4 but it could be the 02J/02A? I haven't really looked on the transmission yet.


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## mkv1003 (Feb 20, 2010)

*Re: (dmgraz)*

this is a little off topic but I just noticed while looking at specs on that link that a 2008 rabbit 4door has a 0-60 of 9.2sec while a 2008 jetta is 8.2. Really? Kind of seems as though it would be the other way around.


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (dmgraz)*

All the 5 speed 2.5 jettas and rabbits are O2a/02j. Boraparts.com is the best place to get it. I would deff go with the .717 gear set as the .681 will be wayyy too long for the stock motor. I love my .717. With 205/45-16's cruising at 75-80 I got 325 miles out of 3/4 of a tank of fuel! Deff worth the money!


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## dmgraz (Jan 3, 2008)

i guess im just not getting it. Our tranny is the same used on in the diesel golf? im really interested in this modification because 5th gear stock chokes on 8====>. I wonder why it notes in the bentley manual that it is an 0a4. What year is your rabbit? (brabbit)?


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (dmgraz)*

2009 same tranny you have. The european golf tdi's have the same trannys as our rabbits.


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## M3NTAL Kev (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: (Brabbit32)*

So what transmissions do the early Rabbits have?
2006?
2007?


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## M3NTAL Kev (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: (M3NTAL Kev)*

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered a 0.681 5th.
Lets see how this works out - it should drop revs by ~600rpm over the standard 5th gear at highway cruise.
Should be:
120km/h --> -580rpm or 2500rpm


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

*Re: (M3NTAL Kev)*

Good news, i went from 300 miles a tank to just under 400 miles per tank. Gotta love it!


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## M3NTAL Kev (Jun 11, 2002)

EDIT: Went with .717 for availability reasons. Should have the car back next week and will provided feedback as well. 

Should be a 450rpm drop at around 120 km/h


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## M3NTAL Kev (Jun 11, 2002)

Chaos! 

My mechanic got halfway through the install of the .717 gearset and ran into a snag. It appears that the smaller of the two gears doesn't fit on the shaft and the the teeth of the gears do not line up! 

My car is a 2007 Rabbit 5spd. 

Can someone (Brabbit32) weigh in with part numbers and info?


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

So in theory if your dropping your rpms by like 600 in 5th gear does that mean that top speed would also be increased? If you have your 2.5 chipped, the redline gets bumped up to 6800 if you use C2 and no more top speed governor. With just a chip Id say you could do 140 easily before its outta air. Now if you add on the extended 5th gear, your rpms will be 600 lower at the same speed giving you more room to accelerate. Am I correct on this cause if so, our cars could outgun alot of competitors with both these mods combined. Not to mention the cruising mpgs would be better at higher speeds.


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## M3NTAL Kev (Jun 11, 2002)

M3NTAL Kev said:


> Chaos!
> 
> My mechanic got halfway through the install of the .717 gearset and ran into a snag. It appears that the smaller of the two gears doesn't fit on the shaft and the the teeth of the gears do not line up!
> 
> ...


No dice for me. 

The gear set simply won't fit in my car. There are definitely different transmissions for the Rabbit.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

So anyone got any input on the extended 5th gear increasing top speed? I'd like to know if Im right on this, pretty sure I am.


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## M3NTAL Kev (Jun 11, 2002)

tay272 said:


> So anyone got any input on the extended 5th gear increasing top speed? I'd like to know if Im right on this, pretty sure I am.


In theory, yes. It all depends on if you have enough power to get to those higher speeds with the taller gearing.

But in short, it should increase top speed.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Alright that makes sense to me. Sorry that the gears didnt work out for you tho, that sucks. I have an 06 so Idk if Ill get these if they didnt work on yours.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Brabbit32 said:


> well here it is, put the .717 gear set in last night.
> Previously at 80mph i was at 3600rpms Now at 3000rpms.
> Cruising at 75mph at 2800rpms.
> 40mph=1500rpms
> in our 02J/02A trannys we have a .829 gear i believe.


So what year Rabbit do you got man cause I really wanna do this at some point but that last guy who posted on here said that the gear wouldnt fit his tranny so Im leary now. Better question would be is what's your trans code on your tranny?


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## stefano9 (Jul 23, 2008)

would this mod some how work for the 6spd trip transmissions? possibly the 6th gear swapped out to lower revs at highway speed or something?


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## phrog23 (May 12, 2007)

would love to se before and after cruizing speedo snapshots, and also a DIY, im extremely interested in this considering that im cruzing in 5th about 80% of my drive time....


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

No one else is interested in doing this? I thought more people on here would be weighin in on this, especially performance wise. I'd still like an answer from the guy who did install the 5th gear.


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

tay272 said:


> No one else is interested in doing this? I thought more people on here would be weighin in on this, especially performance wise. I'd still like an answer from the guy who did install the 5th gear.


 This is more of a comfort and gas conservation mod, IMO. How many times on a track would you be in 5th?


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

That's what I was gettin at, I mean I guess its not really performance but it does affect the way the car performs. It would be nice to have a higher top speed too tho for those of us who like to push our cars to the limit.


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## phrog23 (May 12, 2007)

tay272 said:


> That's what I was gettin at, I mean I guess its not really performance but it does affect the way the car performs. It would be nice to have a higher top speed too tho for those of us who like to push our cars to the limit.


 

haha, and lets not putting a higher speed rated tire on as well... 

.. and im still waiting on some #'s... 


im deffinately thinking of doing this... cuz if im getting 370-385 a tank now... ill probably get easily over 400 a tank ... 


i just want deffinate part #'s and a little more info on this and hell, ill probably write up a DIY on this is enough people get interested...


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

I sent a Pm to the original poster of this who actually got the gear to work on his car cause he's the one who will have some answers for us. Seems he's difficult to get ahold of or doesn't come on here much.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

i've got an 08 and think that this is probably one of the greatest ideas yet. I hate how high the little 2.5 revs on the freeway. i'd say i spend most of my time around 80 mph. and get around 25mpg... I GET ON IT A LOT!!! but to have a lower rev would really help... i think that with my current mods. apr,carbonio,eurojet etc. it should have a good top speed as well.


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## mmrabbit (Jun 27, 2008)

I need this, I put 100 to 150 miles a day. I just need more details, like can I do it myself, will there be a problem in the long run, the warranty??????


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

my car is a 2009. its not the exact same tranny as the euro tdis. but the gears are the same. it wont work on the autobots, the trannys are completely different. From what my local VW/audi performance place told me the 02a/02j trannys have the same internal "guts" i dunno if maybe they had an oddball yeah and changed the shafts in the tranny, but mine went it without a hitch. if u call boraparts.com im sure they can figure it out. I cant wait till the car is turbo'd making around 400whp. 5th is gunna pulllllll like a mofo!


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Thanks for finaly showing your face again and givin me some info haha. I've been waiting patiently. I'll have to call boraparts and get an answer from them cause I dont wanna buy this if its not gonna work. Once the my cars tuned, this will deffinately be the next mod on the list. Should make the Rabbit more fun to drive :thumbup:


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## Schagephonic (Feb 5, 2009)

It took a little time to navigate the boraparts website, but eventually found the gear along with installation and application:

http://shopping.boraparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=320


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

I emailed them a few days ago but haven't gotten a reply yet. Probably cause its the holiday weekend and all. I'll have to wait and see what they tell me, really hope I can install this on the Rabbit.


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## DUSlider (Nov 15, 2007)

If you are doing 80mph and expecting better mileage (than 25mpg) with a lower 5th gear you're kidding yourself. I won't get more than 25mpg doing 80 in my 6spd tip... I would prob say that with fairly flat roads, 50-70mph is the sweet spot for best mileage with pulse driving.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

yeah i guess you're right! i think that 80 is probably not going to really get the best benefit mpg wise. however, i do think that this car needs longer legs and i am led to believe that getting a longer gear could/should greatly increase its top end output. I am concerned however that the motor may have trouble collecting speed. kind of like when you get on a mt bike with the smallest front cog and the largest rear cog. you can pedal as hard as you want but you just don't get any torque into it. but once you get moving then dropping it into that gearing i'd say it'd probably be great...

to those of you who have done this...
how does the car pull up hill? put it in fifth and push does the motor work harder? or is it easier to climb? sorry if i sound stupid for asking but i'm truly interested in this and would like to know.
does the motor's torque still give it power to pull through?


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## UTdaneVW (Sep 21, 2001)

What shop did you have do the work? I am interested given that they have the swap down to an hour. That just seems like a low bid on the job.


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## DUSlider (Nov 15, 2007)

Top end won't matter, it'll be limited by wind resistance anyway...


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Our cars have pretty good aerodynamics and a reasonably low drag coefficient so Im not sure what your getting at. With a chip tune and the taller 5th gear, our cars could easily hit 140+ speeds since the speed governor is removed and rev limiter is usually increased.


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## DUSlider (Nov 15, 2007)

I'm chipped, have intake and exhaust with my 6spd tip. On a flat road with no wind this car has nothing past 135... and it took awhile to get there. If you want different gears in this car for a higher speed and are NA, you're doing it wrong and wasting your time.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Well with that little modding Im not surprised. Add in a lightweight singlemass flywheel and lightweight crank pulley to get the revs up quicker, some headers and highflow cat, Ferrea valvetrain rated at 8500 rpms and you're in business. Once cams come out, this engine will be a beast. Even more so with a taller 5th gear.


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## DUSlider (Nov 15, 2007)

tay272 said:


> *Well with that little modding Im not surprised.* Add in a lightweight singlemass flywheel and lightweight crank pulley to get the revs up quicker, some headers and highflow cat, Ferrea valvetrain rated at 8500 rpms and you're in business. Once cams come out, this engine will be a beast. Even more so with a taller 5th gear.


Wait, wut?




tay272 said:


> Our cars have pretty good aerodynamics and a reasonably low drag coefficient so Im not sure what your getting at. *With a chip tune and the taller 5th gear, our cars could easily hit 140+ speeds since the speed governor is removed and rev limiter is usually increased.*


In the process of contradicting my post you contradict your own. Adding 5-10hp and a different gear isn't going to do much.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

i guess i was thinking long term... i figure i won't be able to really see much of a high end benefit from staying N/A but once the c2 turbo is slapped on... it'll be able to stretch a bit more (maybe a larger turbo) i mean it wouldn't hurt to sacrifice some lag for some high end speed...
BUT maybe i should stay realistic about it. How often will i really be pushing it THAT much to necessitate taller gearing? i guess it would be nice for mpg staying OUT of boost. but then again when she wants to stretch having the ability would be nice. 

maybe i'm just being a little too optimistic. I've been slowly saving for the stage 2 kit from c2. and at the same time i'll be doing a single mass lightweight flywheel and uprated clutch while i'm in there i figured maybe toss the new 5th in and see how she performs. i guess the best part is that it's easily reversed so say i don't notice any improvements i'll swap it back out for factory.

But for those of you that do have this, have you experienced a noticeable improvement. if not power top end wise how about just general drivability? is it remarkable? or just generally overall a good change? DUSLIDER! thanks for all of your input! it's been very helpful!:beer:


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Im not really contradicting anything, your tryin to comment on something that isn't even possible to use on your own car in the first place. You have an automatic, I have a 5 speed with totaly different gearing. What your car is capable of with that transmission is way different then what the manual is capable of. I've had my car all the way up to the speed governor and I was only pushing 5000 rpms and could still feel it had more power to give. The car might not pull too much after about 5500 but with the redline pushed up to 6800, it would be plenty to do at least 140. Add taller gearing and its easily within reason. This isn't a normal 4 banger were ta;lking about here, its a 2.5 5 cylinder. Those speeds are well withing its range of power.


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## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

I have yet to do this on a mk5 2.5l but I can tell you I do swap all my TDI cars over to .651 (really big) 5th gears. This does slightly help the fuel economy and drastically helps reduce the road noise in the car. As far as top speed you need much more torque than hp, so removing weight from the flywheel will actually reduce your top end speed not increase it to a point. What you guys need is forced induction to get more torque out of the engine. 

As far as the swaps on concerned people please start posting up year model and transmission code for who has swapped these. There is one post saying the 07 was not able to do it.. I find that hard to believe if it is running a o2j transmission. If that is the case mk4 gears and mk3 vr and tdi gear sets will work. 

Tools needed (off memory): 

11mm wrench for bolt covers 
jack and jack stands to support car on angle while you work on it or a lift (last on I did in a parking lot) 
small and large gear pullers modified so that they can fit in the casing 
a heat source helps a bit if the gears are new. If you heat it up too much you might ruin the needle bearings. 
Replacement oil 
IIRC it was a 17 or 19mm wrench for the output shafts.. They are on tight 

Time to change?: 

I had one that took 45 minutes I have had ones that the gears only come off in pieces and take 4hrs..


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## Trakmasta (Feb 16, 2003)

Just ran across this thread. My '06 2.5L 5sp Jetta is my every day car and I'd like to do what I could to improve the mileage. Is there confirmation on what gear (p/n, ratio, etc.) actually works and what the results are? It seems like it was kinda left hanging. 

As an aside, I'd like to mod for increasing gas mileage, as nerdy as that may sound. I have an Evo IX and that's my fast car. I put 20k/year on the Jetta, so I'd like to save what I could on gas. Of course, the modding couldn't get too expensive or it would be totally pointless. I'm still kinda interested in seeing how far I can go despite the cost! Any input in that regard would be great, too!

~Steve


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## the_humeister (Sep 25, 2008)

DUSlider said:


> If you are doing 80mph and expecting better mileage (than 25mpg) with a lower 5th gear you're kidding yourself. I won't get more than 25mpg doing 80 in my 6spd tip... I would prob say that with fairly flat roads, 50-70mph is the sweet spot for best mileage with pulse driving.


Pulse and glide gives the best fuel economy on these things. However, on long trips it does get rather tedious, and having a taller 5th gear would be pretty beneficial.


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