# The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY)



## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

_Modified by veedub11 at 1:30 PM 8-23-2007_


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## [email protected] (Feb 5, 2004)

*Re: The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY) (veedub11)*

I think your best bet is mounting it off the 1st cylinder runner, but your main concern is going to be that it fits after it's all assembled on the engine. It'll spark a never-ending cussing fest if you go to bolt it up & the wastegate hits the block or something.
It'd be best for you, if you don't plan on doing this in 1 weekend. You should take 1 weekend to disassemble the manifold currently on the car, and just hold things in place to see where everything lines up. then, hold the wastegate in a clear spot & mark it's best position. Then, you can bench assemble the manifold/turbo/dp, and do the cutting/welding for the wastegate.
Measure twice, cut once!







I learned the hard way once, similar situation. Now, I have an extra hole in my manifold, plugged with a bolt!


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY) ([email protected])*

yea that sounds like a pretty good idea. I just have to go and purchase new gaskets for the current stock manifold and the intake manifold. I fit the manifold, turbo and downpipe together and it seems like the wastegate is gonna have some clearance issues with being off the 1st runner. Do you know if Advanced sells the gaskets, this is WV and the closest dealer is like 30 mins away? BTW I will resize the images.


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY) (veedub11)*

bump


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## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY) ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I think your best bet is mounting it off the 1st cylinder runner, but your main concern is going to be that it fits after it's all assembled on the engine. It'll spark a never-ending cussing fest if you go to bolt it up & the wastegate hits the block or something.
It'd be best for you, if you don't plan on doing this in 1 weekend. You should take 1 weekend to disassemble the manifold currently on the car, and just hold things in place to see where everything lines up. then, hold the wastegate in a clear spot & mark it's best position. Then, you can bench assemble the manifold/turbo/dp, and do the cutting/welding for the wastegate.
Measure twice, cut once!







I learned the hard way once, similar situation. Now, I have an extra hole in my manifold, plugged with a bolt!

yes he said it well


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY) (85roccoZ400)*

i was having the same problem(but with an Audi 80).Might i suggest building an extension between the T3 flange and the turbo to house the WG(provided you have the room?)


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY) (Wizard-of-OD)*

yes i plan to run an extention from where ever i mount the waste to the wastegate to help with heat and clearance. Prob about 2-3 inch extention. Don't know about pushint he turbo back, I think I would have fitment issues with the downpipe and stuff such as the AC and firewall.


_Modified by veedub11 at 5:16 PM 3-3-2004_


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY) (veedub11)*

Where is the best place to tap the downpipe for the dumptube?


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

You want it to vent all cylinders as evenly as possible,who knows why people would tell you to put it on the end runner,always use that as a last resort.
Putting it on the bottom isn't a good choice either because of heat,and inacceability.
I'd put it on the top for the following reasons.
1. It vents ALL cylinders
2.It's easy to get to for maintnence.
3.It's easy to inspect and keep an eye on.
4.It's got more ventilation,which ='s more longevity.
As for dumping into the down pipe,as far away from the turbine outlet as possible,preferrably 18" away I think.Reason being is that the exhaust is swirling at that point and eventually turns into a pulse,if you disturb the swirl you disturb the flow more than you would disturbing the pulse.
hth


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

good point! I now have the turbo and the downpipe together and need to get some studs for the manifold. But with holding the manifold and turbo together the downpipe seems like I would have to weld a diagonal extention to the side of runner #1 for clearance. Plus the flat surface on runner #1 doesn't seem the most stable for the drilling and welding. If I drilled the the top of the manifold there is a flatter surface for the welding of the flange and more space. I could do that and have an extention of a few inches to reduce heat. With the dumptube I would run the pipe with a right angle bend and just plan to dump in the atmosphere until everthing is installed and the 2 pieced downpipe is fitting and welded cause it would have to dump into the lower piece. I have just heard how loud the dump is and would like to be more stealth.


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## Raddoboy (Sep 18, 2002)

*Re: (veedub11)*

Here is a link to a picture of my setup. In the first picture you can see the extension I made up to clear everything. It works awesome for me. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=895956 You should run your wastegate open, it sounds freakin awesome at full boost! The sound will scare the crap out of the people next to you! 


_Modified by Raddoboy at 8:49 AM 3-4-2004_


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (Raddoboy)*









It's funny that I was the first one to post on that thread back in June.







.
Can you maybe change the resolution to 640x480 so I can get a better look at your setup? From what I see, with my setup I will still have clearance issues with the downpipe. I'll get out to the store and get those studs so I can connect the manifold and then I'll take some pictures and maybe photoshop some ideas that I have. The pics will should the potiential problems I think I could have with that setup.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (veedub11)*

>> I have just heard how loud the dump is and would like to be more stealth.<<
There's no reason you can't put a small muffler on it.


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_>> I have just heard how loud the dump is and would like to be more stealth.<<
There's no reason you can't put a small muffler on it.

word


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (veedub11)*

I think running it under the manifold would be best, since heat rises. But like Hardcore VW said, it would be harder to access should you need to adjust it or something. Hardcore VW mentions that it would be less prone to heat stress on top, but I always thought it was the other way around?








On mine, I had a wastegate flange welded to the top, right in the middle, and I will make an S-shaped extension for it, to position it to the side, away from the heat. The only thing is I'm not sure if a regular 1.5" 304 stainless pipe will hold-up to the extreme heat. I hadn't thought of that before, but if worse comes to worst, I'll just make another extension out of thick weld-els ...
Hope that helps.








Where the wastegate sits temporarily :


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (veedub11)*

http://www.supertrapp.com/Auto...g.pdf
About 1/2 way down there's a red roadster,with the number 168 on the door,I've thought baout using the one to the left in the picture of 3 above that car.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (Agtronic)*

>>Hardcore VW mentions that it would be less prone to heat stress on top, but I always thought it was the other way around? <<
True heat rises,but when it's on the bottom it doesn't have much ventilation or places to go so you get heat soak.If it's on top,the heat can rise up and out,esp if there's no rain tray like a lot of us have.


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## Raddoboy (Sep 18, 2002)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

Ive got the motor out and everything is bolted up, Ill try and get some better pics tonight. Later


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (Raddoboy)*

thanks guys! I just got back from Lowes Motorshops and hopefully I can get more stuff together and post some pics tonight.
That idea for a dumptube muffle is great! I see the smallest they have is 1.75 diameter and our piping would be around 1.5, but we can figure something out.


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (veedub11)*

Hey are some images of what my setup look like with the downpipe, turbo and manifold together. Did some sh!tty quick photoshops of what the wastegate mounting could look like. The pix are kind of so. . . 
*WG top mount*

















*WG side mount*
















Top
Top looks pretty good. Course the WG in the pic if off so the correct position would be right above the ATP stamp. The drilled part and the extention would be right in that center.
Side
as you can see for the side, the extention would have to be a pretty good angle to clear the turbo. Even with the extention it might still have clearance issues with the O2 sensor.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

Also FWIW,I think with it standing straight up and down it'd have more support than hanging off to the side.But again,venting off one cyl is'nt a good idea when you have a chance to vent more.


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## Sleepy Mk1 (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: (veedub11)*

I'd stick it on the top man, that downpipe gets damn hot. I wouldn't want it sitting right beside it like that...


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (Sleepy Mk1)*

Sounds like I'm leaning towards the top for the WG mounting.


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## Raddoboy (Sep 18, 2002)

*Re: (veedub11)*

Lucky Xflow guys.... I couldnt put mine on top because of the intake manifold(g60). If you do mount it on the side youll have to relocate your O2 bung.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (Raddoboy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raddoboy* »_If you do mount it on the side youll have to relocate your O2 bung.

True, also, looks like the first one might put the sensor wires right against the manifold.








Good luck man! Looking forward to seeing what you come-up with! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (Agtronic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Agtronic* »_
True, also, looks like the first one might put the sensor wires right against the manifold.








Good luck man! Looking forward to seeing what you come-up with! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Me too.







I will come up with something good, maybe draw some diagrams of the setup with the dump tube.


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (Agtronic)*

Agtronic, is there anything around your WG on the top of the manifold that could cause clearance issues?


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (veedub11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedub11* »_Agtronic, is there anything around your WG on the top of the manifold that could cause clearance issues?

Not that I can think of. Maybe that little black "filter" or whatever it is that hangs off the IAC setup, but I'm running standalone so no IAC. That's the only thing in proximity. Also, the way I have it now, there is no room for a dump tube. I'm not boosting yet, so the wastegate never opens, but if it did the exhaust would be dumping right onto the exhaust housing. That's why I need to make an S-extension.


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (Agtronic)*

I've got a hijack question...my zorning manifold is tapped for a WG that's in the center on the bottom of my 16V mani. I know my setup won't be as accessible but zornig said this setup worked MUCH better than the side setup. 
I was kinda worried about it being trapped down there...should I be worried?
Jason


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

The bottom is better than the side,my arguement was if there is a choice.I wouldn't be worried about it,wastegates can survive some rough conditions,who knows if what I described above would make a difference in longevity,I'm confident it would,but who knows how long it'd be till we knew,many years I'm sure.


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_I've got a hijack question..


This thread is to answer everyones questions about ex-WGs, feel free to ask.


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (veedub11)*

I have another manifold modification question: I plan on tapping the manifold for an EGT probe, where's the best place to do so in order not to disturb flow or anything else?

Edit: Saw that there was another thread about this. prob gonna do the #1 runner.


_Modified by veedub11 at 11:10 AM 3-5-2004_


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## Raddoboy (Sep 18, 2002)

*Re: (veedub11)*

I always thought that the #4 cylander ran the hottest, or was it the #1...Someone chime in and correct me.


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (Raddoboy)*










I was thinking a long the lines of something like this, but without the OWN3D sign and better welds.







I would use a flange to anchor it to the manifold and maybe give it some more distance between the WG and the manifold. Is there any sort of heat wrap that I can put between the manifold and WG to block off some of the heat?


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (veedub11)*

Any suggestions of what kind of pipiing I should use? I was thinking of stainless but I don't know if there is anything better for welding.


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: (veedub11)*

Use some black iron from Lowes Motorsports


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (2kjettaguy)*

haha, yea I've become a regular there


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY) (veedub11)*

bump


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## petedogg (Aug 26, 2003)

*Re: The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY) (veedub11)*

You wouldn't have this dilemma if you purchased an ATP 8V manifold with the w/g flange already welded on. That's the one I have. I mean, it makes sense to purchase this one because you can always block off the flange with a plate if you go with an internal w/g. What you're doing is too much work. Just buy the ATP manifold. Good luck.


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY) (petedogg)*

I got my manifold before they made them and it was only 200. Plus I am gonna make a better setup than ATPs.


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## MDTurborocco (Aug 24, 2003)

*Re: The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY) (veedub11)*

I went through all the same bull as you man. 200 for manifold, 90 to weld on the WG flange to manifold. Than I ran a dumptube for a while and it was just too loud so I had that rerouted into the exhaust 160







. In the end I still get boost creep so if I had to do it all over agin I would just go internal. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Learn to weld yourself or prepare to spend $$$
Im gonna have a grand in my exhaust when Im done with it lol


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY) (MDTurborocco)*

been at the shop all day. I have the area for the ex-wg flange prepped and drilled. I also tapped the EGT probe. I am going to weld up everything tomorrow. After that the next step is the dump tube.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY) (veedub11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedub11* »_been at the shop all day. I have the area for the ex-wg flange prepped and drilled. I also tapped the EGT probe. I am going to weld up everything tomorrow. After that the next step is the dump tube.

Sounds good. I also have to sort my WG stuff, right now my only boost-control is my right foot, and the boost fuel-cut on my SDS.


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (2kjettaguy)*

Finally some pix, had left my camera cable at home.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (veedub11)*

Very nice! What kind / size of pipe did you use? Wall thickness etc ... I still need to do the exact same thing, but was thinking of using a 90° weld-el cut in half and rewelded into an S shape ... but I don't know where to get piping like that!
Thanks for posting pics!


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (Agtronic)*

I used SS piping that is 1/8 thick. I believe that the pipe has a diameter of 1 1/2, a little bigger than the 38mm diameter of the wastegate. The machine shop grinded down the surface so there would be a flat surface and the piping is about 2 inches long. Vdubious's metal shop did most of the work. It's good to have hook ups.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (veedub11)*

Morgantown, WV ? do u go to WVU
MK III surf green? do u live at Sunnyside?


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## MikesGolf3 (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: The External Wastegate Dilemma!(DIY) (veedub11)*

i had to go at it alittle different. im using a manifold from an audi 5000. i had to do some customizing to it. i cut off the 5th runner and i had a flange that was sent with the waste gate and welded it on where it was cut. did a serious weld on it


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_Morgantown, WV ? do u go to WVU
MK III surf green? do u live at Sunnyside?










Yea!, good guess?


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (veedub11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedub11* »_
Yea!, good guess?

yeah i'm full of great guesses....
I own the ginser around mo-town, I live like 3 seconds from you on University.


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (GTijoejoe)*

nice, I've seen you around Mo-town.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (veedub11)*

I finally tackled mine today. Picked up a 1 1/4" mild steel weld-el and two flanges. I cut the weld-el in two and welded them together at an angle to point the wastegate outlet downwards. It looks kinda stupid, but I sorta wanted to make the wastegate show from behind. I'm very concerned with "showing off" the parts under the hood.















(This is also my first time MIG welding mild steel with gas. I can't believe how nice it welds, so much easier than stainless!)










































_Modified by Agtronic at 10:00 PM 4-16-2004_


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (Agtronic)*

Very nice Markku! Thats a great idea, should be easier to run a dumptube with that. Btw I finished my gauge setup today! Got 3 autometer gauges and a dual stage boost controller where the head unit used to be. So, when are we finally gonna get our turbo cars on the road? I have about a week between my last exam and graduation so thats hopefully my install week. I have been just taking the last few months making the final prepparations so that I can just piece setions together. Gonna try and get into my friends shop and cut the rebar for the FMIC this weekend. I'll post pix of my gauge setup on your thread later.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (veedub11)*

sweet http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif hope to see it roll around


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