# 24V VR6 in MK2?



## Conceps (Dec 5, 2005)

Hey, i was just searching around and i didnt see any. Are there any out there? If so how much complicated of a swap is it to a mk2? Thanks!


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## RTCustomz (Dec 20, 2004)

*Re: 24V VR6 in MK2? (Conceps)*

pretty much the same as a 12v but you NEED to have the wiring harness for a 24v


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## RTCustomz (Dec 20, 2004)

*Re: 24V VR6 in MK2? (RTCustomz)*

ohh yea it is taller unless im mistaken


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## Conceps (Dec 5, 2005)

ooh taller, yeah maybe it doesnt fit? I think i'll just focus on gettin a 12v...


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## RTCustomz (Dec 20, 2004)

*Re: (Conceps)*

it'll fit you just need to raise the hood.. i think the 12v would be alot easier thats why i did it!


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## Conceps (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: (RTCustomz)*

yeah easier sounds better, i just thought maybe i would save extra money and try to get a 24v. you lovin your mk2 vr6?


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## RTCustomz (Dec 20, 2004)

*Re: (Conceps)*

if anything it would cost more.. but my 12v isnt done yet but it does drive and it spins tires through third gear on a dry day!!


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (RTCustomz)*

haha you have to raise the hood that is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard. it fits fine. you can use alot of the 12v stuff. you could even use 12v wiring and sensors.


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## RTCustomz (Dec 20, 2004)

*Re: (bonesaw)*

you could.. but it wouldnt run as smooth as it should


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## FocalPoint (Sep 15, 2006)

IM vwvirus he's got a MK2 coupe with a 24v vr6 nice piece of machine...but i do advise u lots of work requried to make it work...cluster...harness, custom subframe, suspension, custom exhaust....


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## Conceps (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: (FocalPoint)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FocalPoint* »_IM vwvirus he's got a MK2 coupe with a 24v vr6 nice piece of machine...but i do advise u lots of work requried to make it work...cluster...harness, custom subframe, suspension, custom exhaust....

Ah shizz, I don't know much but i do know when somthing is too much work and that sounds like too much work for me. Thanks for the info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: (Conceps)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Conceps* »_yeah easier sounds better, i just thought maybe i would save extra money and try to get a 24v. you lovin your mk2 vr6?

You'd spend a hell of a lot more $$ doing a 24v swap


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## Broken96VR6 (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: (FocalPoint)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FocalPoint* »_IM vwvirus he's got a MK2 coupe with a 24v vr6 nice piece of machine...but i do advise u lots of work requried to make it work...cluster...harness, custom subframe, suspension, custom exhaust....

Gotta say that's some way bad info you're peddling there. You can use a regular 12v cluster along with a 12v wiring harness (VVT just won't work but there are easy ways around it), you can use a regular 12v subframe since both 12v motor mounts bolt right up to the 12v block (and if you use a 12v O2A, the tranny mount bolts right up as well). If you use the O2A, no need for a custom suspension since the stock 100mm O2A axles slip right your cars stock hub, so just use what everyone else is using for a plus suspension on 12v VR cars. Exhaust will need a custom DP to go from the stock exh flanges to the cat which is not much money at all if you have some good exhaust shops around. You can get it to run just fine with a custom chip and some dyno time. And finally, yes the head is slightly taller (can't remember how many mm of the top of my head), but if I can toss one in a Rabbit, you sure as hell can fit one in a Mk2............. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
From the get go, the only things that you are gonna spend more on than the 12v is the motor itself, the DP, the custom chip and dyno time, and if you want the VVT, and a 24v to 12v TB spacer (or custom TB like a 5.0 mustang)..........


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## Jeramiah (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: (Broken96VR6)*

I am running a 3.2L 24V in my MK2. I have my STOCK! 16V subframe in the car with the Vr mounts attached to it. I am able to retain my 16V driveshafts and 4 lug setup ( I loved my RM's to much to switch) All it required to clear the hood was to shave the MMP solid front mount down a few mm's. It has a custom made downpipe, and ultra lite thin electric fans. Electrically the 24V engine harness was needed along with the 24V ecu/harness and cluster. The 24V fuel pump relay and required wiring for it was also grafted in. 
NOw I am into my swap for close to $12K just on the motor


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## FocalPoint (Sep 15, 2006)

*Re: (Broken96VR6)*

im talking with O2M trans and flyby wire working, the whole nine...if i were to do it i'll do so everything works the way its suppose to..plus i'm posting on wat i've seen a friend go thru, and he's got everything in there from the R32.. except he as a vr6 cluster which he had to wire up vss becuase mk2 came mechanical speedo, becuase without a vss or something like that his car was going into limp mode i think he said because the flybywire didnt have proper feedback




_Modified by FocalPoint at 10:06 AM 2-20-2007_


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## Jeramiah (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: (FocalPoint)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FocalPoint* »_im talking with O2M trans and flyby wire working, the whole nine...if i were to do it i'll do so everything works the way its suppose to..plus i'm posting on wat i've seen a friend go thru, and he's got everything in there from the R32.. except he as a vr6 cluster which he had to wire up vss becuase mk2 came mechanical speedo, becuase without a vss or something like that his car was going into limp mode i think he said because the flybywire didnt have proper feedback

_Modified by FocalPoint at 10:06 AM 2-20-2007_

He's in limp purely based on the R32 VSS you cannot replicate it. Even with ther R32 Cluster in there it will still huck into limp after a few minutes. It comes down to software plain and simple. The ECU needs to be modified. 


_Modified by Jeramiah at 3:27 PM 2-20-2007_


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## FocalPoint (Sep 15, 2006)

*Re: (Jeramiah)*

yes we figured that out..he's just waiting till summer to fix it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AAdontworkx3 (Oct 1, 2002)

*Re: (FocalPoint)*

It was an easy swap, but mine is running on Tec 3 . . . so i didn't have to deal with the wiring issues most people had.


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## vdubchop2k4 (Jun 30, 2004)

*Re: (AAdontworkx3)*

also looking in to doing this just got a 24v for a really good price. I was thinking on maybe a turbo setup. But just want to get the swap done for now wats TEC 3 like in terms of doing and it running smoothly oh yea price is always a factor. And for anyone who can answer this does the VVT really make that much of a difference for performance


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## vwmaniac16vr6 (Nov 17, 2004)

*Re: (vdubchop2k4)*

i talked to a guy at waterfest who put a FULL 24v swap and he said on a dyno the hp with intake cam unplugged was approx 15hp and said exaust made little to no difference, i believe its mostly for emissions since just like the 1.8t vvt if you go from an atw(non vvt) 180hp motor to awm(vvt equipped) 180 hp motor and the 24v dosen't recirculate exaust gasses so its made up for that with vvt, just my 2 cents


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (vwmaniac16vr6)*

the exhaust cam is only for emmissions purposes. you could control the intake cam with a rpm activated switch, or with standalone.


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## vwmaniac16vr6 (Nov 17, 2004)

*Re: (bonesaw)*

i think its so varied between rpms that a simple switch wouldn't accomidate the amount it advances or retards, its not like a vtec, its a little more complex, i think some kind of potentiometer would closest replicate the oem settings, but it wouldn't be a simple tune, you would need like side by side dyno analisis.


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## AAdontworkx3 (Oct 1, 2002)

*Re: (vwmaniac16vr6)*

It is varied. The intake cam sits at 26ATDC and can advance to 26btdc... which will give you a 52deg window. Focus on combining your intake vvt with your vgi manifold to get the most torque. Then, relax(at a fixed, descending rate) the cam past 4100rpms to redline. . .
You could go hang out in the hondata forums. Look how they tuned the K series motors. . . Aside from the lift control, it'll give you an idea on how this motor should be tuned.


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## vdubchop2k4 (Jun 30, 2004)

*Re: (Broken96VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Broken96VR6* »_
Gotta say that's some way bad info you're peddling there. You can use a regular 12v cluster along with a 12v wiring harness (VVT just won't work but there are easy ways around it), you can use a regular 12v subframe since both 12v motor mounts bolt right up to the 12v block (and if you use a 12v O2A, the tranny mount bolts right up as well). If you use the O2A, no need for a custom suspension since the stock 100mm O2A axles slip right your cars stock hub, so just use what everyone else is using for a plus suspension on 12v VR cars. Exhaust will need a custom DP to go from the stock exh flanges to the cat which is not much money at all if you have some good exhaust shops around. You can get it to run just fine with a custom chip and some dyno time. And finally, yes the head is slightly taller (can't remember how many mm of the top of my head), but if I can toss one in a Rabbit, you sure as hell can fit one in a Mk2............. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
From the get go, the only things that you are gonna spend more on than the 12v is the motor itself, the DP, the custom chip and dyno time, and if you want the VVT, and a 24v to 12v TB spacer (or custom TB like a 5.0 mustang)..........


here's my main consern can i really have the car running correct with no major issues if i use a 12v harness and ecu along wit the subframe now i have about the better half of a 24v harness like injection spark and some sensors but the cut it up when they took it out so it kinda made me wounder to just get the 12v setup the only reason why i got this motor is because it was a deal im sure no vdub guy could refuse 382 for a healty longblock http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (vdubchop2k4)*

itll run on 12v stuff but it will think its a 12v, plain and simple.


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## AAdontworkx3 (Oct 1, 2002)

*Re: (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_itll run on 12v stuff but it will think its a 12v, plain and simple.

Yup. The V/E is higher on the 24v head. . . it may have some flat spots in the rev band. . .


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## vkrit (Mar 16, 2007)

*Re: (AAdontworkx3)*

so is this swap hard or what?


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## vwmaniac16vr6 (Nov 17, 2004)

*Re: (AAdontworkx3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AAdontworkx3* »_It is varied. The intake cam sits at 26ATDC and can advance to 26btdc... which will give you a 52deg window. Focus on combining your intake vvt with your vgi manifold to get the most torque. Then, relax(at a fixed, descending rate) the cam past 4100rpms to redline. . .
You could go hang out in the hondata forums. Look how they tuned the K series motors. . . Aside from the lift control, it'll give you an idea on how this motor should be tuned. 


i talked to one of my honda friends and he said they make a vvt controler for the k series motor and its a only a coulple hundos and i also explained what you said word for word advance with manifold valve and retard at a steady rate after 4000 rpm, he said you can progam it like so

also you have to use a 24v cam position sensor it is different than the AAA 12v sensor, basically just splice the connector. i believe the injector impendance is different you may need to add resistors inline with them, don't know how much resistance i would have to look in the bentley for that info


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## AAdontworkx3 (Oct 1, 2002)

*Re: (vwmaniac16vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwmaniac16vr6* »_. . .also you have to use a 24v cam position sensor. . . 

That depends on your EMS. Stock, you'd need the intake cam sensor (minimum) for motronic to run full sequential . Any SEMS could run the motor on phased (1,6 - 5,2 - 3,4) injection and eliminate the cam sensors all together. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I went that route because of two reasons:
-Small, stock injectors are easy to control. 
-Any fuel injection past ~3500rpms will move so quickly that all the injectors are practically "firing" at once. . . like CIS. 
As for impedence, they're high/24lb...


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## RonWhite30311 (Mar 3, 2005)

Sorry guys, I am new to this swap tech... 
I know the chassis set up should be the same but how had is it to swap an '01 12V VR into a MK2? I get totally different responses from everyone on the Vortex...


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