# 16v head + 4th gen block questions



## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

So I have a few questions about this conversion. I am trying to find information on which aluminum blocks I can fit a 16v head onto. I know the 06a/06b family will work, but my question is which blocks come with oil squirters?? I am from north america and from the research I have been doing no aluminum block in north america came with oil squirters. I know the azg block from the early bettles has oil squirters but I have been told that that is a steel block in north america not aluminum. Please correct me if I am wrong but I would like to sort all this mess out. My over all goal is to build an all aluminum 16v engine with oil squirters. If any of you prefer one block over the other please state which one and why. I know their are a few people out there that have already done this conversion so I am calling you out for your expertise and knowledge. I need a bit of insight to point me in the right direction.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

nobody has any advice?


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

I could be mistaken but the only aluminum block I know of in North America is the new 1.4L hybrid. Unless they got something in Canada or Mexico.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

bonesaw said:


> I could be mistaken but the only aluminum block I know of in North America is the new 1.4L hybrid. Unless they got something in Canada or Mexico.


I would be willing to make the trip to canada or mexico and bring back an aluminum block since I do like to travel. Me and my brother have been talking about going to canada anyways. Would you happen to know what blocks in canada or mexico are aluminum with oil squirters??


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Like I said unless they have something there. Although I highly doubt it otherwise more people would be using them. Do a search there is a pretty good thread about them.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

I already talked to somebody from ina engineering they said that no block in north america was aluminum with oil squerters. The oil squerters are more important to me than the aluminum block. But im a bit stubborn and refuse to believe that no block in north american not even canada or mexico is an aluminum block with oil squerters. Im sure somebody out there has a bit more of insight on this. A friend of mine is selling his early bettle thats why i am asking this question. I dont want to buy the car to later find out that i could have gotten the exact block i am looking for from somewhere else.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Issam knows his ****. There was only a handful of cars even in Europe that had aluminum blocks. People have paid $1000 for a stock one to get it here. When you can get a iron block for $100 that does the same thing. Doesn't need to be sleeved. Etc. many mk4 2.0 blocks have oil squirters. I guess it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish and how deep your pockets are.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

Damn. Alright then i guess i will buying that bettle. I just want the peace of mind that i will be able to get new parts with out having to worry about them not being available anymore. I prefer the serpentine belt system too. Plus i have read that the new blocks have a better breather system especially when you are trying to turbo them. But since i will be getting the whole car i might as well upgrade the transmission and swap the cable shift system too. Once i get the block i will start a new thred on crank shafts and different stroke ratios. longer stroke = more torque.


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## lupocharged (Oct 10, 2010)

*aluminium blocks*

Hi there im from London England and im also in the middle of an all alloy 16v build. Like yourself this type of build is not on everyone list so information is very limited. What i can tell you is this Audi A4 2001 to 2004 and VW Passat 2001 to 2004 came with 2 versions of alloy blocked 2.0l Engines. The first batch were 2.0l 20v 130 ps port injected engine code ALT. The second batch were 2.0l 16v Fsi 150 ps. Both set ups are 82.5mm bore 92.8mm stroked. Hope this info is of help to you. Both blocks come with oil squirters as standard.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

lupocharged said:


> Hi there im from London England and im also in the middle of an all alloy 16v build. Like yourself this type of build is not on everyone list so information is very limited. What i can tell you is this Audi A4 2001 to 2004 and VW Passat 2001 to 2004 came with 2 versions of alloy blocked 2.0l Engines. The first batch were 2.0l 20v 130 ps port injected engine code ALT. The second batch were 2.0l 16v Fsi 150 ps. Both set ups are 82.5mm bore 92.8mm stroked. Hope this info is of help to you. Both blocks come with oil squirters as standard.


this is great info actually. I have a few local junk yards in the area. i will stop by soon and see if their are any of those cars in there. But from what i have heard is that no aluminum blocks were made in north america. I will check and make sure thou. thanks for the info on this.


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## lupocharged (Oct 10, 2010)

*alloy block*



killervr6 said:


> this is great info actually. I have a few local junk yards in the area. i will stop by soon and see if their are any of those cars in there. But from what i have heard is that no aluminum blocks were made in north america. I will check and make sure thou. thanks for the info on this.


 no problem if you are having problems locating any of these blocks depending on how much you really need one i could locate one for you in the UK. Just empty block with crank main baring caps and oil squirters. It very light 20 kilos.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

lupocharged said:


> no problem if you are having problems locating any of these blocks depending on how much you really need one i could locate one for you in the UK. Just empty block with crank main baring caps and oil squirters. It very light 20 kilos.


wow i just did the math and it comes out to just over 40 lbs. super light for a block.
how much do you think it would cost in total with the block and shipping??
this would be great over all performance upgrade.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

I believe a cast block is 80 lbs.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

bonesaw said:


> I believe a cast block is 80 lbs.


20 kilos comes out to just a bit over 40lbs unless he gave me the wrong weight?


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

i have been mistaken.
it comes out to just over 44lbs. still super light thou.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Yeah I alum block us 44lbs from what I gathered. A cast iron block is 88lbs.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

i still wonder how much it would cost to get an aluminum block shipped over here.
isam quoted me at $1200 for a brand new block.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

lupocharged said:


> no problem if you are having problems locating any of these blocks depending on how much you really need one i could locate one for you in the UK. Just empty block with crank main baring caps and oil squirters. It very light 20 kilos.


by any chance do you think you can quote me on one of those blocks with shipping and handling included?


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## lupocharged (Oct 10, 2010)

killervr6 said:


> by any chance do you think you can quote me on one of those blocks with shipping and handling included?


Could you forward address details including zip code to [email protected] and I will get some estimates


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

lupocharged said:


> Could you forward address details including zip code to [email protected] and I will get some estimates


thank you i will send you an email right now.


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## lupocharged (Oct 10, 2010)

*Exact weight*

Got home from work early and since i had some spare time thought i would give you something to think about. Exact weight of alloy block with oil quirters and crankshaft bearing caps is 20.8kg without packing. A few photos to give you an idea..


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

nice. very tempted to get that alt block. I have been doing some research and in north america the axw, bpg, and bwt engines are already all aluminum 16v with fsi injection. Kinda tempted to just do a whole engine swap rework the internals for turbo use and call it a day. Has anybody done these swaps on an mk1 platform yet? If so how difficult is it to do the swap? My over all goal is to get an all aluminum 16v turbo into my scirocco. Been getting great info on this thread but new ideas just keep popping up.


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## lupocharged (Oct 10, 2010)

killervr6 said:


> nice. very tempted to get that alt block. I have been doing some research and in north america the axw, bpg, and bwt engines are already all aluminum 16v with fsi injection. Kinda tempted to just do a whole engine swap rework the internals for turbo use and call it a day. Has anybody done these swaps on an mk1 platform yet? If so how difficult is it to do the swap? My over all goal is to get an all aluminum 16v turbo into my scirocco. Been getting great info on this thread but new ideas just keep popping up.


The conversion into a Mk1 golf/scirocco platform is like doing a 20v 1.8t conversion.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

lupocharged said:


> The conversion into a Mk1 golf/scirocco platform is like doing a 20v 1.8t conversion.


great. I have seen a few threads on that conversion but didnt read up much on it. Will look into that in a a bit.
How about internals? I dont know much about the newer vws and dont know if the aftermarket world has much support for the axw, bpg, or bwt engines. Since i want to turbo it i would need new rods and low comp pistons. Also a whole new valvetrain as i want to spin the engine up to 8k+


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

kinda leaning towards the bpg/bwt engine swap. A 16v fsi system sounds pretty intriguing in an old scirocco.


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## lupocharged (Oct 10, 2010)

*Engine spec*



killervr6 said:


> kinda leaning towards the bpg/bwt engine swap. A 16v fsi system sounds pretty intriguing in an old scirocco.


block wise 82.5mm/83mm pistons. 144mm conrods. Crankshaft dependant 86.4mm/92.8mm even 95.5mm. What head are you thinking to use?


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

lupocharged said:


> block wise 82.5mm/83mm pistons. 144mm conrods. Crankshaft dependant 86.4mm/92.8mm even 95.5mm. What head are you thinking to use?


was thinking of just doing a complete bpg/bwt engine swap and keep the fsi system. But with completely reworked internals to handle the power from a turbo and the higher revs.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

isam just told me that the axw engine never came to north america. So those are my two options. Bpg or bwt which i hope i can find in a junk yard. Might have to travel a few hours to a bigger city thou. Wont have any of those in my local junk yards.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

so i have been doing some searching online and from what i have been able to gather is that all non turbo 4cyl fsi engines are all aluminum. The turbo fsi engines are cast iron. Non turbo awx didnt come to north america. Bpy engine non turbo all aluminum is found in 06-08 audi a4 only. Bpy's in vw are turbo and cast iron blocks. Cct from an 08 to present tiguan is non turbo and aluminum? Couldnt find to much info on this one. I also found that the bwt engine is non turbo and all aluminum but couldnt find much info on it either. Can anybody give me some info on these blocks? One of these engines is going into my 87 scirocco. just trying to find wich cars i can pull the engine out of and so far it looks like i will have to look for an audi as the donor car.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

nobody has any more info on which cars i can find the non turbo 2.0 fsi engine?
i really dont want to wait around for an audi to pop up in the junk yard as that might take a while.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

It seems that all the motors you are looking for do not come to this country(other than the Audi's possibly). And those do get wrecked, so they will show up, but you know they won't be cheap. Why do you find that so hard to believe? You are either going to have to pay what INA wants or import one from outside of N/A.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

you do realize the turbo motors are aluminum for a reason right?

i can see a turbo race car with a proper tuner and a well sorted internal setup being reliable..but you never know how it will end...so one small hiccup....this block will shatter, not jsut get a hole in the back.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

Vegeta Gti said:


> you do realize the turbo motors are aluminum for a reason right?
> 
> i can see a turbo race car with a proper tuner and a well sorted internal setup being reliable..but you never know how it will end...so one small hiccup....this block will shatter, not jsut get a hole in the back.


are you sure they are aluminum?
every where i look it says that the turbo motors are all cast iron.
unless more than a few people are wrong?
but its ok about the tuning. more than a few tuners have done more than great things with aluminum blocks. I have always been into japanese cars and most every block is aluminum and seen many people make 800+ whp. 
cast iron blocks are stronger but im going for a better over all balance.
lighter front end will give me better weight distribution on all 4 wheels.
Even with the aluminum block im sure the weight distribution will be somewhere around 60/40 f/r.
I like going on my local mountain roads and also plan on doing a bit of auto cross racing. So the lighter front end will help get rid of some understeer.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

I'm sure that was a typo. Dragonballz meant 'aren't aluminum'.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

elRey said:


> I'm sure that was a typo. Dragonballz meant 'aren't aluminum'.


lmao! dragonballz lol
yea thought that was a typo.
but its alright thou. solid power has been made out of many aluminum blocks before.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

killervr6 said:


> solid power has been made out of many aluminum blocks before.


Many aluminum blocks? Yes
Many Volkswagen Aluminum Blocks? Only 1 has been documented and that is Josh in B.C. with the Green monster. A motor we built.

Most of the information in this thread needs correcting but it seems to me (and please don't take this the wrong way) that you are not willing to accept what is reality.

All Volkswagen motors produced after 1997 have oil squirters.

Like posted above only a HANDFUL of Volkswagen 4 cylinder motors were Aluminum and there is a huge confusion as to what cars they came in. For e.g. MKIV Volkswagen Golf's in France came with All Aluminum motors in both 16V and 8V version. The 16V motor's were based off of the Polo motor so forget those and the 8V had open deck so Darton sleeves alone were $300/cylinder minimum.

The block above (ALT) may work but that is only the tip of the iceburg as your options are extremely limited. No matter what way you skin this cat you are looking at $2000+ USD to prepare the block. Trying to mix and match parts is only going to delay your project and it probably will never get done. 

Again as posted above , for the weight savings you are better off using the Iron block if you are on a budget. If you are part of a race series and money is no object (like Josh's build) then by all means go right ahead but for the 44lbs weight savings you are spending $2000+ USD more than you have it so you need to ask yourself if $2000+ USD is worth 44 lbs.

Good Luck.
- Issam


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## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

"All Volkswagen motors produced after 1997 have oil squirters."

Not all blocks come with oil squirters but do have provisions for them.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

ALLGORIMSHOW said:


> "All Volkswagen motors produced after 1997 have oil squirters."
> 
> Not all blocks come with oil squirters but do have provisions for them.


All Volkswagen 4 cylinder motors produced after 1997 have oil squirters... even ABA's. If you got an ABA that did not have oil squirters then consider it from an early/recycled batch.

ABA/ABK/ABF/ABT/2E/AEB/AAZ/etc and that is just some of the 827 blocks that are coming to mind. All 06A , 06B , 06D , 06F , 06H and even the new 06K have oil squirters.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

AEG?


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

elRey said:


> AEG?


I guess we are both agreeing the same point that "Not all blocks come with oil squirters but do have provisions for them"
If we went engine code for engine code ,some AEG's had and some did not. Same for AZG and newer CJAA motors (allthough the few CJAA motors I have taken apart all had oil squirters).

CJAA = 2010+ MK6 2.0 8V motors.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

you know what cars the azg block came in?
i know the early beetles but any other cars i can get it from?


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

later mk4 2.0. What are you trying to accomplish?


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

i want to swap my 16v head and turbo it basically. nothing to crazy. Im in hopes of trying to get somewhere between 300-400whp.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

You can use any block. Original 16v block, aba, or 06a. I personally would use a mk4 2.0 one. Take a look at The thread about mating a 16v head to 06a block.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

yea i wanted to use the mk4 azg block. i like the serpentine belt system the upgraded breather system that comes stock and the fact that it comes standard with a crank trigger.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Pretty much everything came standard with crank trigger starting with the ABA.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

ps2375 said:


> Pretty much everything came standard with crank trigger starting with the ABA.


idk? i have an mk1 so i wouldnt know the answer to that.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

killervr6 said:


> idk? i have an mk1 so i wouldnt know the answer to that.


profile says you have a vr6 Jetta too.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Do some more research about using 06a block with 16v head and mk1. It does not just bolt up. You may want to consider aba bottom end for simplicity.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

ps2375 said:


> profile says you have a vr6 Jetta too.


had a vr6 jetta r.i.p. 
had to get rid of it before i could do any more work to it and that engine was an afp from a 2001.
but i did keep the transmission and shift box that i am going to put into my rocco.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

bonesaw said:


> Do some more research about using 06a block with 16v head and mk1. It does not just bolt up. You may want to consider aba bottom end for simplicity.


16v head does bolt up with the azg block. just needs custom arp studs which i can get isam.
Plus i plan on turboing the car and dont want to run into any engine breather problems. I have read that many people cant keep the oil in the engine with the old blocks when they go turbo.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

you will also need custom mounts to bolt into scirocco.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

killervr6 said:


> Plus i plan on turboing the car and dont want to run into any engine breather problems. I have read that many people cant keep the oil in the engine with the old blocks when they go turbo.


You are "reading" the wrong posts, the only time that should be an issue is with excessive blow-by. And that is not a normal thing for any build.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

i know i will need custom mounts since i plan on using the 02j transmission but the front and engine side mounts will work.

as for blow by i guess it makes sense. Maybe bad piston rings? but either way i plan on taking my time on this build and doing things right. I dont plan on taking any short cuts anywhere. But all the info and advice that you guys give me helps out and just makes me want to do more research so i can get it right the first time.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

You will need custom side mount for motor if you use 06a.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

bonesaw said:


> You will need custom side mount for motor if you use 06a.


not sure what family the azg belongs to but i think its a direct bolt on with the factory engine side mount.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

killervr6 said:


> not sure what family the azg belongs to but i think its a direct bolt on with the factory engine side mount.


not in a mkI chassis. AZG has an internal water pump = mkIV chassis


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

ill have to look around some more. from what i have been told is that all engine mounts are the same except for alh motor due to the timing belt tensioner being in a different location.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Why do you refuse to acknowledge the information people give you? We are giving advice to help. Most are given knowledge from experience.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

bonesaw said:


> Why do you refuse to acknowledge the information people give you? We are giving advice to help. Most are given knowledge from experience.


Horse Water


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

bonesaw said:


> Why do you refuse to acknowledge the information people give you? We are giving advice to help. Most are given knowledge from experience.


im not refusing anything. like they say measure twice and cut once. i just want to be sure. It doesnt hurt to double check the facts.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

4 people on this thread told you the same thing. You can do whatever you want but it'll get to the point where people will stop wanting to help.


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