# TSI rev hang issue



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Well I officially have the mysterious 2012+ TSI rev hang issue that some CC and GTI owners have reported. No idea what's causing it and the dealer says its normal. Anyone else yet?

No boost/vacuum/or exhaust leaks. Throttle body is operating correctly. Stock tune or stage 2, still experience it.

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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

30 people looked and no one has the same problem? #foreveralone lol

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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

my TSI /6 speed passat did the same thing. I could not figure it out for the life out of me. After a diff clutch, flywheel, etc still the same ****.


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## GTarr (May 17, 2012)

Hi Doc,
I'm honestly not sure.... I've watched some of gear323's videos on youtube and tried to figure out if I have exactly the same thing or not.... but it does seem to me that it takes longer than I'm used to for the revs to drop... but this is my first turbocharged car, so I don't really know what's normal.

GTarr


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## Knothead (Feb 13, 2013)

drtechy said:


> 30 people looked and no one has the same problem? #foreveralone lol
> 
> posted via tapatalk


My car has it. It was very annoying at first, but I have since gotten used to it. Its especially tricky when you're trying to heel-toe downshift. Let us know if you find a cure, Doc.


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## PooLeArMor (Aug 13, 2008)

its drive by wire.....


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

If it was drive by wire, or the emissions excuse, or the dual mass flywheel, I would have had it from day 1. This has only been happening for about 1.5 months. 

I'll keep this thread up to date if I figure anything out. My main concern is that one person was experiencing this (2012 mk6 gti), his water pump failed, was replaced and issue suddenly went away. While I don't think the water pump could mechanically have anything to do with it, it may be throwing off a sensor somewhere causing a problem. I'm grabbing at straws here lol

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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

I have had my car now for about 7 months but so far no "Rev" Hang issue. I am APR Stage II and did upgrade the clutch to the HSTuning RSR clutch using the stock DMFW. It's a great clutch and pulls a lot harder than it did with the stock POS clutch. Hopefully, the dreaded Rev Hang will not appear on my car but if it does I will let you know.


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

This has to be computer related. Engine is naturally going to decelerate so sounds to me like the engine is still being fueled for some reason when you disengage the clutch.


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## David9962000 (Feb 2, 2011)

Contact www.goapr.com I believe this feature can be removed with a tune.


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

is the car PZEV?


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

David9962000 said:


> Contact www.goapr.com I believe this feature can be removed with a tune.


Tried, they said no way it could be the tune, and I kind of believe them because I've had the tune a while and this is a recent issue.



vdubbugman53 said:


> is the car PZEV?


I don't believe so

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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

Sounds like it is potentially a emissions thing from what I have been reading.


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## GaryD87 (Apr 9, 2011)

Had it on my gti. And I've have it here on the beetle. I'm pretty sure it's the intake. I put my stock one back on the gti and it was fine. Did the same thing with the beetle and it wasn't rev hanging anymore. But I put back my twin take b/c race car lol 


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

GaryD87 said:


> Had it on my gti. And I've have it here on the beetle. I'm pretty sure it's the intake. I put my stock one back on the gti and it was fine. Did the same thing with the beetle and it wasn't rev hanging anymore. But I put back my twin take b/c race car lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


Really? The dam intake? I think you're the second person who's said that now to me. Guess I'll have to try my stock one later this week

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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Was told by the 'head honcho' (Marcel Horn) at HPA that after extensive testing of many aftermarket intakes,
with the Carbonio being especially 'too turbulent', that they recommend using the OEM intake but replacing the
OEM element with K & N's 'drop in' element. It seems that the 'cage like' design of the K & N allows a more linear
air flow than the OEM one and is the preferred choice of HPA. Just for the record, I have no 'rev hang' issue with
my 6-speed TB. Also want to add that my HPA K04 set-up and tune has no problems of any kind.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

While I will give the stock intake a shot, I still don't think that can be the culprit since, once again, I have only had this problem for a little while the intake has been on the car for over a year now. 

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## Knothead (Feb 13, 2013)

drtechy said:


> While I will give the stock intake a shot, I still don't think that can be the culprit since, once again, I have only had this problem for a little while the intake has been on the car for over a year now.
> 
> posted via tapatalk


I am still on the stock intake and have the issue.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Knothead said:


> I am still on the stock intake and have the issue.


As I mentioned, HPA has found that the K & N insert is more efficient than the standard OEM one,
with regard to managing the air flow. Whether that is enough of a change to affect the 'rev hang'
issue, I don't know. Have also found that the bolts on my intake manifold required tightening at
all points. Can't wait for the cast intake manifold coming soon from HPA. The OEM plastic one is for the
birds!


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

I have the Carbonio intake and have no issues with any Rev hang whatsoever. Had it on the car now for 7 months. Car runs Great with the APR stage ll tune.

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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Knothead said:


> I am still on the stock intake and have the issue.


Yea I figure its not going to fix the issue since I've had the intake over a year and it recently started doing this. But I'm going to try it anyway. This is really starting to piss me off though because the dealer seems to think its normal.

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## 2003miata (Oct 26, 2013)

[HR][/HR] I just bought my 2013 TB, less than 1k on the odometer, and have been having the rev hang issue too, I assumed it was due to the hill assist, although I thought that only used the breaks. Any way we are not alone, new (electronic throttle) Subaru imprezas also have this issue, but in my opinion it's worse in those cars.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

2003miata said:


> [HR][/HR] I just bought my 2013 TB, less than 1k on the odometer, and have been having the rev hang issue too, I assumed it was due to the hill assist, although I thought that only used the breaks. Any way we are not alone, new (electronic throttle) Subaru imprezas also have this issue, but in my opinion it's worse in those cars.


Yea I've heard Hondas suffer from it as well. Yea Hill assist only uses the brakes, this is quite bewildering. I'm still going to try the intake, but the more I think about it the more I think that's unlikely also since the APR intake uses the entire stock MAF housing anyway to straighten the air.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

One fellow reported replacing the clutch switch and problem went away.
Another said clutch signal at ECU wasn't changing. He found the clutch switch
on his car to be fine but said the ECU was causing the problem. Some reported
doing a smoke test for leaks was another option, but nothing reported on that.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

ridgemanron said:


> One fellow reported replacing the clutch switch and problem went away.
> Another said clutch signal at ECU wasn't changing. He found the clutch switch
> on his car to be fine but said the ECU was causing the problem. Some reported
> doing a smoke test for leaks was another option, but nothing reported on that.


Funny the clutch switch was the first thing a friend of mine mentioned, but it seems to be operating fine. I wonder if I can log it side by side with my throttle since its intermittent

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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Well I've decided to take the car to House of VW in Joplin, MO. They are the closest "real" experts around St. Louis so I figure its worth the drive to them. I refuse to believe that there is no logical reason to this issue.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

drtechy said:


> Well I've decided to take the car to House of VW in Joplin, MO. They are the closest "real" experts around St. Louis so I figure its worth the drive to them. I refuse to believe that there is no logical reason to this issue.


 Keep us posted on what they say. :thumbup:


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

Took a drive to my brothers house a almost an hour away and this happened to me yesterday. going there there is a large nice stretch of 3 lane largely open highway. Well I only get rev hang when driving like and ass hole. If I shift at 3k like a normal human it acts as normal. The minute I crossed 5k rpm and shifted above that it would hang. I was able again to replicate this on the way home. When driving hard this is not a problem and I only noticed this because I put the clutch in to coast off the highway and it made me WTF. Does yours hang all the time or only when driving "sporty"?


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

vdubbugman53 said:


> Took a drive to my brothers house a almost an hour away and this happened to me yesterday. going there there is a large nice stretch of 3 lane largely open highway. Well I only get rev hang when driving like and ass hole. If I shift at 3k like a normal human it acts as normal. The minute I crossed 5k rpm and shifted above that it would hang. I was able again to replicate this on the way home. When driving hard this is not a problem and I only noticed this because I put the clutch in to coast off the highway and it made me WTF. Does yours hang all the time or only when driving "sporty"?


Yea that's normal due to the dual mass flywheel and high revs, mine happens anywhere in the rev range, even at 2000 rpm. It will hang there for a couple of seconds and then drop down like normal.

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## 02SilverSport (Jun 2, 2012)

I get the hang and have had it since new - now have 20 K on it and all stock. It hangs when I push above 3000 rpms and normally only in the first second shift points.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

It's not because of the dual mass flywheel. Never had any Rev Hang in this car or any of my Audis all with a DMFW. 




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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

IndyTTom said:


> It's not because of the dual mass flywheel. Never had any Rev Hang in this car or any of my Audis all with a DMFW.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have you seen the newest flywheels though? They have this interesting design to them where one section of it is actually more like a dampener. Its really weird, but it definitely causes a little more hang by itself than the old style. That's still doesn't explain my issue though, but hopefully by Friday I'll know the cause.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

I actually have seen the DMFW when I had my RSR clutch installed at HSTuning. They did mention that the flywheels in the 2.0 FSI and even in the earlier TSIs were weaker than the present Sachs flywheels. They were convinced that the rev hang was partially caused by the weak OEM
pressure plate not the FW.

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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

IndyTTom said:


> I actually have seen the DMFW when I had my RSR clutch installed at HSTuning. They did mention that the flywheels in the 2.0 FSI and even in the earlier TSIs were weaker than the present Sachs flywheels. They were convinced that the rev hang was partially caused by the weak OEM
> pressure plate not the FW.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


I just don't see how it can be the pressure plate, but I guess we'll see.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

Any update on what the shop thinks it could be? Or do they think it's perfectly normal?


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

IndyTTom said:


> Any update on what the shop thinks it could be? Or do they think it's perfectly normal?


Actually just left a couple of hours ago. They are perplexed as well, but they say its definitely not normal but all the readings show normal. First things first, I have to replace an o2 sensor because its not working. Its the second one so it "shouldn't" effect how the engine is running, however it is possible with vw's new emission protocols that something may be triggered by it. We just don't know. So I'm going to the dealer monday to have that fixed. And then we'll see. Oh and they did say for sure that neither the clutch or intake have anything to do with it. MAF is getting perfect readings and clutch is grabbing and releasing just fine. 

Unfortunately though on my way back there was a 2X4 flying around the highway that hit and cracked my front bumper and grill. So I guess I gotta order a new grill now too. Aren't cars fun? FTL

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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

Damn bro im sorry to hear that : / Im sure u will have her looking pretty in no time. Ps if u want bright as license lights like the ones on my ig pm me! Got an extra set ill send em to you


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## GaryD87 (Apr 9, 2011)

You guys ever hear about U.M. Tunes? I hear their tunes are designed to completely eliminate rev hang. 


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

GaryD87 said:


> You guys ever hear about U.M. Tunes? I hear their tunes are designed to completely eliminate rev hang.


UM doesn't seem tp have any 2.0TSI tunes listed on their site.



sp33dy said:


> Damn bro im sorry to hear that : / Im sure u will have her looking pretty in no time. Ps if u want bright as license lights like the ones on my ig pm me! Got an extra set ill send em to you


No thanks, and yea hopefully I can get the new grill in there without having to take the bumper off to make it easier. I'm thinking about just ripping the grill out completely

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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

My racing mechanic friend said that rev hang is also something that he noticed early on in the Lotus
Elise. He attributes it to when the cams switch over and says it's normal. Lotus also seconded what he
said.


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## plex03 (Nov 10, 2011)

drtechy said:


> I'm thinking about just ripping the grill out completely


I like the sound of that. Wish there was a recessed matte black mesh insert that could go in there instead.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

O2 sensor being replaced tomorrow, so hopefully things will be better.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

drtechy said:


> O2 sensor being replaced tomorrow, so hopefully things will be better.


 Keep us posted if that fixed your problem.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Well didn't fix it, back to the drawing board. It actually seems to have made it a bit worse. Idk though that could just be me. I'm getting rich codes now from the rear o2 so ok thinking maybe with a spacer set right I may just get it running well again as it was previously with the spacer. I'll keep ya updated though

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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

drtechy said:


> Well didn't fix it, back to the drawing board. It actually seems to have made it a bit worse. Idk though that could just be me. I'm getting rich codes now from the rear o2 so ok thinking maybe with a spacer set right I may just get it running well again as it was previously with the spacer. I'll keep ya updated though
> 
> posted by tapatalk


E'gads! We're not using illegal 02 sensor inserts, are we? Hope the 'Sensor Insert Squad' isn't planning a
raid at your place, but if they are, be a good APR soldier and fall on your sword. I'm sure they will dedicate
a statue of you on their premises if the worst happens.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

ridgemanron said:


> E'gads! We're not using illegal 02 sensor inserts, are we? Hope the 'Sensor Insert Squad' isn't planning a
> raid at your place, but if they are, be a good APR soldier and fall on your sword. I'm sure they will dedicate
> a statue of you on their premises if the worst happens.


Wtf? Come talk to me when your KO4 puts out some real numbers bro. Thanks for the positive input

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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

drtechy said:


> Wtf? Come talk to me when your KO4 puts out some real numbers bro. Thanks for the positive input
> 
> posted by tapatalk


And I've officially become a typical vortex person, dang it

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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

They are as illegal as paying $100 to someone to pass your inspection..... 

Oh wait...





ridgemanron said:


> E'gads! We're not using illegal 02 sensor inserts, are we? Hope the 'Sensor Insert Squad' isn't planning a
> raid at your place, but if they are, be a good APR soldier and fall on your sword. I'm sure they will dedicate
> a statue of you on their premises if the worst happens.


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## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

Dammit is it infectious? How does the same $&@*+%# topic get brought up over and over regardless what the original topic started out about???


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## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

Dammit is it infectious? How does the same $&@*+%# topic get brought up over and over regardless what the original topic started out about???:banghead::screwy::facepalm::thumbdown::sly:


Edit. Oops double post. It's just that frustrating I had to post it twice :laugh:


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

Chris659 said:


> Dammit is it infectious? How does the same $&@*+%# topic get brought up over and over regardless what the original topic started out about???:banghead::screwy::facepalm::thumbdown::sly:
> 
> 
> Edit. Oops double post. It's just that frustrating I had to post it twice :laugh:


I js dont get wat the big deal is. I guess is hard to understand unless you are part ofthe inster squad :laugh:


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Let's all of us just hope and pray that the S.I.S (Sensor Insert Squad) doesn't bring any of our members
before Judge Al "No Mercy' Abernathy. Ever since he was a young boy, and got run over by an APR modified
tractor on a farm, he's hated 'power mods' and look's to 'throw the book' at anyone with them, who are brought
before him.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Anyway, getting back on topic, had something interesting this morning happen. I'm driving to work with the same rev hang going on and little rough running. When I say rough too its not super rough, but I can tell the difference since I drive it every day. Suddenly about 30 minutes into my drive, it starts running much smoother. Still getting rev hang, but it started pulling and running much better. So I'm thinking I'm on the right track, most likely the computer is adapting to actually getting o2 sensor readings now so it can actually adjust properly. I am throwing a catalyst inefficiency code, but that was to be expected once that o2 sensor actually started working. This could all be in my head, but who knows since no one can seem to tell me exactly what is in VW's emissions controls in the ecu. I'll keep updating.


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

why cat inefficiency when you put a cat in your car now?


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

sp33dy said:


> why cat inefficiency when you put a cat in your car now?


Because its only a 200 cell cat. Don't forget stock these cars come with 2 cats.


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

2 cats? i have yet to put the car on a lift. oh man, where is the 2nd cat? i thought it was the same as my old b6 tsi with one cat on the downpipe.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

sp33dy said:


> 2 cats? i have yet to put the car on a lift. oh man, where is the 2nd cat? i thought it was the same as my old b6 tsi with one cat on the downpipe.


You can see it on the top of this picture below. There is one right after the first o2 sensor, and then another further down the pipe. Hence why its simply not possible to pass inspection with a single cat unless you do something tricky to the software or use an o2 spacer. While others may say that people have been tuned to pass, they are simply not getting the power they should because they have been de-tuned to pass inspection with only one cat.


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

**** my CCTA tsi did not have that. I guess the CBFA added a second cat. wow this is js nuts.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

sp33dy said:


> **** my CCTA tsi did not have that. I guess the CBFA added a second cat. wow this is js nuts.


That's my stock DP and mine is CCTA. My BPY motor in my MKV had the same thing, even though I was able to pass with a single 200 cell cat on that motor. I'm pretty sure they all have it stock though.


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

no way! CCTA is only up to 2010 tho! after that it was CBFA's or so it was my understanding.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

sp33dy said:


> no way! CCTA is only up to 2010 tho! after that it was CBFA's or so it was my understanding.


CBFA has been produced since 2009 (I think lol) along with the CCTA. Both are put into vehicles all the way up to 2013's. In 2014's we will see the the newest motors as I understand it.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

sp33dy said:


> no way! CCTA is only up to 2010 tho! after that it was CBFA's or so it was my understanding.


 Nope, They did make the CCTA motor past 2010. I have one in my beetle. No pesky SAIP pump to deal with and yes it still comes with two cats. I replaced mine with the APR catted downpipe and their Stage 2 tune and so far it has never thrown a code of any sort and I don't use any spacers on the O2 sensor. Runs flawlessly and performs like a Panther on Steroids. And no rev hang. Yet, anyway.


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

i guess ill check tonight if i have a cbfa or a ccta. If i have a ccta im going to be pissed that i sold my downpipe :laugh:


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

IndyTTom said:


> Nope, They did make the CCTA motor past 2010. I have one in my beetle. No pesky SAIP pump to deal with and yes it still comes with two cats. I replaced mine with the APR catted downpipe and their Stage 2 tune and so far it has never thrown a code of any sort and I don't use any spacers on the O2 sensor. Runs flawlessly and performs like a Panther on Steroids. And no rev hang. Yet, anyway.


Are you using the OEM box and filter?


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

IndyTTom said:


> Nope, They did make the CCTA motor past 2010. I have one in my beetle. No pesky SAIP pump to deal with and yes it still comes with two cats. I replaced mine with the APR catted downpipe and their Stage 2 tune and so far it has never thrown a code of any sort and I don't use any spacers on the O2 sensor. Runs flawlessly and performs like a Panther on Steroids. And no rev hang. Yet, anyway.


Nice you're lucky. 

An update though with my issue. Air fuel ratios are much better now. Surprisingly after driving for a while with a functioning o2 sensor I think the adaption has done its thing. She's pulls a lot harder now, and my rev hang is slowly disappearing. I'm determined to find out what emission controls are in the programming though because a rear o2 sensor should have no effect on how the motor runs, but apparently it is now. In any case, for now I'm not going to put an O2 spacer on there, my hopes are that as it continues to adapt it will eventually correct itself, but I have my doubts. Still shocked you don't throw a code Tom, but hey that's great to hear that it's possible.


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

Ok, so i finally spoke to a tech from my local dealer. He has built a lot of big turbo cars around here and he did say that on the tsi models the rear o2 sensor DOES affect vehicle fuel trims. It is not like in previous models whereas we would put a spacer and kaboom no cel. it seems that the rear sensor on the tsi models plays some sort of emission related role. 

As far as the rev hang, since the dealer has my old passat :laugh: he took a look into it and said that it could possibly be related with air fuel ratio readings from the ecu. He is not 100% sure but also said he will try to dig in a little more. :thumbup:


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

sp33dy said:


> Ok, so i finally spoke to a tech from my local dealer. He has built a lot of big turbo cars around here and he did say that on the tsi models the rear o2 sensor DOES affect vehicle fuel trims. It is not like in previous models whereas we would put a spacer and kaboom no cel. it seems that the rear sensor on the tsi models plays some sort of emission related role.
> 
> As far as the rev hang, since the dealer has my old passat :laugh: he took a look into it and said that it could possibly be related with air fuel ratio readings from the ecu. He is not 100% sure but also said he will try to dig in a little more. :thumbup:


Cool, let us know if he finds anything.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

drtechy said:


> Nice you're lucky.
> 
> An update though with my issue. Air fuel ratios are much better now. Surprisingly after driving for a while with a functioning o2 sensor I think the adaption has done its thing. She's pulls a lot harder now, and my rev hang is slowly disappearing. I'm determined to find out what emission controls are in the programming though because a rear o2 sensor should have no effect on how the motor runs, but apparently it is now. In any case, for now I'm not going to put an O2 spacer on there, my hopes are that as it continues to adapt it will eventually correct itself, but I have my doubts. Still shocked you don't throw a code Tom, but hey that's great to hear that it's possible.


 Great to hear your car is running a lot better. No code with the APR downpipe. Not sure if the APR Stage 2 tune is specifically set up for their downpipe or not but I am happy I am not having an issues at least not yet.  Car runs pretty strong especially in this cold weather. I think I need to get a larger intercooler next so I will have the great performance of the cooler air in the summer as well.


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

yea intercooler is next for me as well. I got a forge twintercooler laying around from a mk5 i wonder if it would fit the beetle.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

sp33dy said:


> yea intercooler is next for me as well. I got a forge twintercooler laying around from a mk5 i wonder if it would fit the beetle.


It won't fit on yours, but I think it will on mine, you should just send it to me LMAO


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

^ smart guy. If it fits yours it fits mine :laugh:


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

sp33dy said:


> ^ smart guy. If it fits yours it fits mine :laugh:


IDK bro lol


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5984992-rev-hang

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35996&page=2


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

After selling my car and reading this thread i finally think I found the solution to the rev hang......


















































































:laugh:


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

[email protected]



sp33dy said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5984992-rev-hang
> 
> http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35996&page=2


Yup I've read through those, I'm still not convinced. I think it has to do more with the emissions controls than the "feature" to make it easier to drive normally. 

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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

How can you let someone sell you a car that won't let you think for your self and doesn't even have launch control

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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

Its actually my first automatic car ive always owned manual vws. The problem is last year i injured my left knee and after surgery the pain is still bad. Forcing me to not even wanna drive my car. Therefore i decided to sell my last 6 speed 400hp passat for a dsg car trust me i miss it everyday but being able to drive with no pain feels good too :laugh:


vdubbugman53 said:


> How can you let someone sell you a car that won't let you think for your self and doesn't even have launch control
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

sp33dy said:


> Its actually my first automatic car ive always owned manual vws. The problem is last year i injured my left knee and after surgery the pain is still bad. Forcing me to not even wanna drive my car. Therefore i decided to sell my last 6 speed 400hp passat for a dsg car trust me i miss it everyday but being able to drive with no pain feels good too :laugh:


I'm afraid I'm going to have to make the same decision on my next car, I don't want to have to get surgery

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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

it wasnt an easy decision but i had to do what i had to do


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

sp33dy said:


> it wasnt an easy decision but i had to do what i had to do


In my case it was spinal surgery that made me sell my 2005 Lotus Elise! Best handling car I ever
drove. Like a 'go-kart' on steroids.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Update to rev hang issue:

So got the o2 sensor spacer all squared with the right jet and the CEL is gone. But Monday morning it got real cold here, and suddenly boost was fluctuating like crazy and the car was just running way worse. I thought to myself, great fix one thing and the next thing breaks lol! In any case, I think I may have found the rev hang culprit, as it looks like it finally got a lot worse. Looks to be the N75 valve is the culprit, and ask anyone its one of the toughest things to diagnose because it won't throw a code, it won't leak air, everything will look normal. But after some data logging I think I've confirmed it. Below are 2 graphs that led me to the conclusion. Check it out for yourself!

Stock mode:









93 stage II gets real ugly on this:


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

like i said yest. Your n75 duty cycle is as sporadic as my ex gf's attitude. Time to stop chasing and start replacing :laugh:


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

sp33dy said:


> like i said yest. Your n75 duty cycle is as sporadic as my ex gf's attitude. Time to stop chasing and start replacing :laugh:


lol already ordered yesterday


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

man those 24lbs of boost spikes must of been fun tho :laugh:


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

sp33dy said:


> man those 24lbs of boost spikes must of been fun tho :laugh:


Not really because the boost is going up and down so much it doesn't really get going at all. Plus I'm leaving it in stock mode for now so I don't blow anything up, since I was hitting almost 31lbs in stage 2 lol


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

that poor k03 was probably screaaaaming at 31lbs LOL :laugh:


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

sp33dy said:


> that poor k03 was probably screaaaaming at 31lbs LOL :laugh:


LOL I've created a new savings account name "Mario's KO4 fund to fix his car" lmao!


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

I started putting money aside every month for the "k04'd before i own the car for 6 months" fund :laugh: You know all the mods i been getting and it only has been a month. K04 will follow this spring/summer.


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## GaryD87 (Apr 9, 2011)

I'm going GT28. But damn!!! all these years and it's been the N75 valve. Rediculous


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## GaryD87 (Apr 9, 2011)

I'm going GT28. But damn!!! all these years and it's been the N75 valve. Ridiculous


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

N75 Replaced, boost issue resolved, rev hang still a problem though ftl! Next thing might be to get reflashed, I know apr and most places say that won't do anything but at this point I have to try

posted by tapatalk


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

drtechy said:


> N75 Replaced, boost issue resolved, rev hang still a problem though ftl! Next thing might be to get reflashed, I know apr and most places say that won't do anything but at this point I have to try
> 
> posted by tapatalk


Well it worked for about a week, no I'm overboosting again. I just wish we had some performance shops around that had any clue about these cars.


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

again???????????????????????? 

short on the n75 harness? or your tune is going b-a-n-a-n-a-s



drtechy said:


> Well it worked for about a week, no I'm overboosting again. I just wish we had some performance shops around that had any clue about these cars.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

So finally got the car to a local performance shop. He mostly works on subarus but does GIAC tuning for dubs too. 

After I described everything I'd been through he said they would take a look and get back to me. 1 hour later he said that the entire set of vacuum lines for the n75 and wastegate actuator were filled with oil gunk from the pcv. While mine was an extreme case, he did say it was common for these motors because of the design of the pcv, and the way it has a rear line dumping crap right into the intake, instead of the manifold like the front pcv line, and like in previous motors like the FSI. I mentioned how many people had this problem, and he wasn't really surprised lol. So if you are seeing this rev hang issue, check out your vacuum lines and the inside of the intake right by the turbo inlet for that gunk (oil and fuel mixed). 

I'm picking up the car tomorrow morning, but after my long discussions with him and his description of what he found I'm confident the issue is resolved.

posted using tapatalk


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

drtechy said:


> So finally got the car to a local performance shop. He mostly works on subarus but does GIAC tuning for dubs too.
> 
> After I described everything I'd been through he said they would take a look and get back to me. 1 hour later he said that the entire set of vacuum lines for the n75 and wastegate actuator were filled with oil gunk from the pcv. While mine was an extreme case, he did say it was common for these motors because of the design of the pcv, and the way it has a rear line dumping crap right into the intake, instead of the manifold like the front pcv line, and like in previous motors like the FSI. I mentioned how many people had this problem, and he wasn't really surprised lol. So if you are seeing this rev hang issue, check out your vacuum lines and the inside of the intake right by the turbo inlet for that gunk (oil and fuel mixed).
> 
> ...


HMM, there might bean Oil catch can in my future.;-)


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## plex03 (Nov 10, 2011)

IndyTTom said:


> HMM, there might bean Oil catch can in my future.;-)


This


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

So picked up the car, unfortunately we got hit with snow again last night so I couldn't really test too much. Definitely have better throttle response, and I only experienced a small amount of rev hang, which could be attributed to other things. I'm hoping since its supposed to rain tomorrow, that I should be able to do some good testing this weekend. One major improvement though, is that all the numbers for actual vs specified in vagcom are now showing within spec. So that's a good thing. What I'm thinking is if I still experience a little bit of rev hang, most likely I need to go through and clean all the charge piping, and possibly my intercooler because I'm sure a lot of that gunk that got blown into the intake made its way through there. I'll probably wait for warmer weather for that though.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

So after a couple of days, giving the ecu some time to adapt, she is running real good. Reinspected all my catch can lines, and inside the intake. All looks good. I've still got a little rev hang every once in a while when just driving around town, but nothing like before, and nothing I would call an actual issue.

Like I said before when the weather gets better I'll be taking all the charge piping off, intercooler out for cleaning, as well as taking the throttle body off for cleaning. Might tackle the valves at that point, but not sure I feel like removing the intake manifold or not, we'll see. 

posted using tapatalk


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

drtechy said:


> So after a couple of days, giving the ecu some time to adapt, she is running real good. Reinspected all my catch can lines, and inside the intake. All looks good. I've still got a little rev hang every once in a while when just driving around town, but nothing like before, and nothing I would call an actual issue.
> 
> Like I said before when the weather gets better I'll be taking all the charge piping off, intercooler out for cleaning, as well as taking the throttle body off for cleaning. Might tackle the valves at that point, but not sure I feel like removing the intake manifold or not, we'll see.
> 
> posted using tapatalk


Glad she is running better. So you already have a oil catch can and you still ended up with gunk and oil in the lines? Seems this 2.0 Turbo takes a lot more maintenance than I thought. My Beetle is safely in the Garage waiting for Spring. It's not going out in this crappy weather we have been having ;-)


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

IndyTTom said:


> Glad she is running better. So you already have a oil catch can and you still ended up with gunk and oil in the lines? Seems this 2.0 Turbo takes a lot more maintenance than I thought. My Beetle is safely in the Garage waiting for Spring. It's not going out in this crappy weather we have been having ;-)


I honestly feel like that may have been from before I had the can, but I am going to keep a closer eye on that rear pcv line. I'm checking it every week for the next month or so to be sure it stays clean.

posted using tapatalk


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

drtechy said:


> I honestly feel like that may have been from before I had the can, but I am going to keep a closer eye on that rear pcv line. I'm checking it every week for the next month or so to be sure it stays clean.
> 
> posted using tapatalk


Where exactly is that line located? I may have to take a look at mine just to be sure.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

IndyTTom said:


> Where exactly is that line located? I may have to take a look at mine just to be sure.


I could only find a good picture to show you on the APR intake. The arrow below points to where the rear PCV line connects to. Then the picture below that points to the vacuum line that goes to your n75 valve controlling your wastegate. 



















I'm still very happy, but I do plan on going back to the shop to see what they think of the small intermittent rev hang I'm still seeing. I'm sure they'll just say its nothing, but figured I'd ask them anyway.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

drtechy said:


> I could only find a good picture to show you on the APR intake. The arrow below points to where the rear PCV line connects to. Then the picture below that points to the vacuum line that goes to your n75 valve controlling your wastegate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! I will have to take a look when it gets a tad warmer out. Weekend back to single Digits. But still better than the -17 below we had last Monday an Tuesday with windchills to Minus 47. Now that was cold. 
I wonder what would happen if you block that line on the Intake side. That would prevent the gunk getting into the intake but how would it effect the running of the vehicle?


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

IndyTTom said:


> Thanks! I will have to take a look when it gets a tad warmer out. Weekend back to single Digits. But still better than the -17 below we had last Monday an Tuesday with windchills to Minus 47. Now that was cold.
> I wonder what would happen if you block that line on the Intake side. That would prevent the gunk getting into the intake but how would it effect the running of the vehicle?


I'm sure it would run fine, but maybe not perfect. I know some guys that have it completely blocked off, and they run a dump tube instead of a catch can, and they don't seem to have issues. I just rather keep it as originally designed, makes it easier to diagnose issues. Plus I'm sure with the catch can cleaned up now I shouldn't see anymore of that gunk making it to that rear line. I'm keeping an eye on it every couple of days though just in case.


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## Slo.Mo.Shun (Jan 13, 2010)

Drtechy, have you tried ditching the N75 all together ?

Back when I had my first 2.0T, I upgraded to a GT28 and my boost was all over the place.

I kept changing sensors, N75s, hoses, and nothing seamed to fix it. 

Then, USP bypassed the N75 with a manual boost controller and it did the trick.

I had Revo at the time. The boost was set to 9, so that the N75 always requested as much as possible and the mbc to 18-20 psi.

It ran without a glitch until the trans gave up .


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Slo.Mo.Shun said:


> Drtechy, have you tried ditching the N75 all together ?
> 
> Back when I had my first 2.0T, I upgraded to a GT28 and my boost was all over the place.
> 
> ...


Nah I've heard nothing but terrible things for manual boost controllers on stock turbos


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## venom600 (Sep 9, 2002)

Was a solution ever found for this? My car rev hangs so often that it makes driving smoothly difficult. I was hoping a tune would fix the problem, but it seems that's been ruled out. Anyone?


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

venom600 said:


> Was a solution ever found for this? My car rev hangs so often that it makes driving smoothly difficult. I was hoping a tune would fix the problem, but it seems that's been ruled out. Anyone?


Not sure if a solution was ever found. I have a 2012 VW Beetle Turbo 2.0 and never experienced this mysterious "Rev Hang". I am APR Stage II tuned so I don't know if that made a difference or not. 
After almost 3 years car runs strong as ever and very smooth. No "Rev" Hang or any other hang to speak of.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

venom600 said:


> Was a solution ever found for this? My car rev hangs so often that it makes driving smoothly difficult. I was hoping a tune would fix the problem, but it seems that's been ruled out. Anyone?


I was able to fix mine through e-tuners, however since we have been researching it the issue can be different from car to car. There is no magical fix that works on every car like some tuners would make you believe. It takes time and testing to get the fix right.

posted via tapatalk


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

drtechy said:


> I was able to fix mine through e-tuners, however since we have been researching it the issue can be different from car to car. There is no magical fix that works on every car like some tuners would make you believe. It takes time and testing to get the fix right.
> 
> posted via tapatalk


So what you are saying is that the cause of the so called "REV Hang" can be different from car to car? That doesn't make much sense because the cars are so similar. There should be a common denominator that causes this "REV Hang" 
Once this cause is determined there should be a way to overcome the issue. It is a strange phenomenon and I hope I never experience it in my car but as I have heard it can develop at any time. Glad you got your issue fixed with E-tune people.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

IndyTTom said:


> So what you are saying is that the cause of the so called "REV Hang" can be different from car to car? That doesn't make much sense because the cars are so similar. There should be a common denominator that causes this "REV Hang"
> Once this cause is determined there should be a way to overcome the issue. It is a strange phenomenon and I hope I never experience it in my car but as I have heard it can develop at any time. Glad you got your issue fixed with E-tune people.


I should rephrase, we cannot guarantee the rev hang fix with our tunes currently because we haven't tested with enough vehicles. If we see the same thing working on several vehicles then we could, but at this point we can't. With that said though, we have found 2 different causes to the rev hang on a couple of different vehicles. It really comes down to the combination of your choice of exhaust and intake. Someone with an SPM exhaust and an APR intake most likely would have the same fix as my vehicle since we're running the same hardware. But someone with a BSH intake, and an APR exhaust it may be slightly different. Make sense? I in no way want to say I understand it completely, but I think I have a good grasp now.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

drtechy said:


> I should rephrase, we cannot guarantee the rev hang fix with our tunes currently because we haven't tested with enough vehicles. If we see the same thing working on several vehicles then we could, but at this point we can't. With that said though, we have found 2 different causes to the rev hang on a couple of different vehicles. It really comes down to the combination of your choice of exhaust and intake. Someone with an SPM exhaust and an APR intake most likely would have the same fix as my vehicle since we're running the same hardware. But someone with a BSH intake, and an APR exhaust it may be slightly different. Make sense? I in no way want to say I understand it completely, but I think I have a good grasp now.


Ahh, so the combination of air-intake and exhaust system is to blame? I didn't realize that. That is good to know. I am running the APR intake with an APR Downpipe but still have my stock cat back. Perhaps that is the reason I haven't experienced it yet? 
How do you like the E-Tune overall? Did it boost performance more so over the previous tune you had?


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

IndyTTom said:


> Ahh, so the combination of air-intake and exhaust system is to blame? I didn't realize that. That is good to know. I am running the APR intake with an APR Downpipe but still have my stock cat back. Perhaps that is the reason I haven't experienced it yet?
> How do you like the E-Tune overall? Did it boost performance more so over the previous tune you had?


Exactly, use all APR products with an APR tune you most likely won't get rev hang because that's what they used to create their tune, whereas when you start mixing and matching you need a custom tune solution (insert shameless plug for E-Tuners here lol) to really take advantage of the parts properly. My stage 2 tune from E-Tuners completely blew away anything I had before. Unbelievable torque (dyno'd at 340wtq) and very linear. Now I've installed the frankenturbo and am on a conservative tune, which feels great, but I can't wait to get on the dyno to really setup the tune!


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## venom600 (Sep 9, 2002)

drtechy said:


> I was able to fix mine through e-tuners, however since we have been researching it the issue can be different from car to car. There is no magical fix that works on every car like some tuners would make you believe. It takes time and testing to get the fix right.
> 
> posted via tapatalk


That's great, but my car isn't tuned at all. It's 100% stock. Could it be a fuel quality thing? I've read in the past that typically rev hang is added by car makers to more thoroughly burn the fuel and reduce emissions... is it not plausible that using the crappy CA 91 octane gas could be a cause?


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

venom600 said:


> That's great, but my car isn't tuned at all. It's 100% stock. Could it be a fuel quality thing? I've read in the past that typically rev hang is added by car makers to more thoroughly burn the fuel and reduce emissions... is it not plausible that using the crappy CA 91 octane gas could be a cause?


Doubtful, I have friends that run 87 octane gas in their Turbo Beetle's in order to save money and they don't seem to have any issues. I tell them they are idiots for running low octane gas in a car that is designed 
for premium gas but they rather save 30 cents a gallon. Oh well. To be honest I don't know what causes this mysterious "Rev Hang" issue. It seems to be a random issue and not every car is affected. 
So far I haven't experienced this Rev Hang on my car but I have been pretty much tuned after the first 1000 miles so I don't know if that made a difference or not. 
When did you first experience Rev Hang on your car? What exactly does it do? I still don't understand exactly what it is. Is it like the Revs don't want to come down after you shift? Does it only happen in Manual transmission cars? 
Just curious what I should be looking for.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

venom600 said:


> That's great, but my car isn't tuned at all. It's 100% stock. Could it be a fuel quality thing? I've read in the past that typically rev hang is added by car makers to more thoroughly burn the fuel and reduce emissions... is it not plausible that using the crappy CA 91 octane gas could be a cause?


Are you actually experiencing rev hang or just slow rev drop once the clutch is pressed? My experience was actual hang, meaning it would sit at 2000 or 2500 rpm for quite a few seconds before starting to drop. Slow rev drop on a stock vehicle is most likely just the combination of the stock flywheel and electronic throttle. Not sure that can be fixed with a tune or not.

posted via tapatalk


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## Aquasurf (Jan 24, 2014)

Interesting to see that this thread has been going for over a year.
I looked into the issue of rev hang at some depth and wrote about my findings here: http://www.revhang.altervista.org/


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## venom600 (Sep 9, 2002)

drtechy said:


> Are you actually experiencing rev hang or just slow rev drop once the clutch is pressed? My experience was actual hang, meaning it would sit at 2000 or 2500 rpm for quite a few seconds before starting to drop. Slow rev drop on a stock vehicle is most likely just the combination of the stock flywheel and electronic throttle. Not sure that can be fixed with a tune or not.
> 
> posted via tapatalk


I've had three DBW VWs in the past, the last of which was a MKV GLI, and none acted like this. If I am in first gear and don't shift up there are times where it will sit at 5000RPM for seconds before dropping. Makes shifting very hit or miss and jerky.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

venom600 said:


> I've had three DBW VWs in the past, the last of which was a MKV GLI, and none acted like this. If I am in first gear and don't shift up there are times where it will sit at 5000RPM for seconds before dropping. Makes shifting very hit or miss and jerky.


I still wonder why this REV Hang issue is so widespread? It's not only the Beetle's. Guys on the GTI Forums are complaining about it as well. I am thankful it hasn't happened to my Beetle yet. There doesn't seem to be an answer as of WHY this
is happening either or a Fix. Very strange.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

venom600 said:


> I've had three DBW VWs in the past, the last of which was a MKV GLI, and none acted like this. If I am in first gear and don't shift up there are times where it will sit at 5000RPM for seconds before dropping. Makes shifting very hit or miss and jerky.


I'm guessing you have a vacuum/boost leak somewhere then. Have you checked it for leaks? Stock tune definitely shouldn't hang like that unless you've modified the exhaust or intake.

posted via tapatalk


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