# replace all four tires because of ONE small nail?



## KKToureg (Sep 1, 2004)

Thanks to the trusty TPMS system I found a small nail in one of my tires. I took it to the Goodyear shop this morning and not only did they say they couldn't plug/patch the tire because it was within an inch of the side, but I'd also have to replace all four tires if I needed to replace one. My tires have about 25% wear on them. It seems that none of the branded tire centers will patch tires anymore and only plug tires if the penetration is in the middle of the tire. Is it really unsafe to drive a patched tire or is that a ploy to sell more tires?


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## denm33 (May 29, 2007)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (KKToureg)*

I had a shop plug an almost new tire on our Passat. A roofing nail right on the shoulder on the outmost edge. The guy said we should not do it. I said--I'll try it. That was about 18 months ago, it is still holding fine. 
Granted the TReg is a lot heavier, but you could try it. Just don't do any major offroading right after.


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (KKToureg)*

True, all the tires need to be the same size or rolling diameter, but don't replace the the other three like the tire shop WANTS you to do, instead buy one and get it trued, or shaved, down to the size of the other tires. You'll probably have to call several tire shops, but I have confidence that you'll find one that can help.


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## Yeti35 (May 17, 2006)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (KKToureg)*

Aircooled is correct for I went through this last year when I sliced a side wall on a tire at the rally. I bought one brand new tire and had it turned down to the size of the other three. If you get one new tire and don't do that you run the risk of screwing something up in the AWD system.


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## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (Yeti35)*

nah, it doesn't matter. just buy one new tire, it'll wear down to about the same as the others over the course of a year.
having one larger tire is like driving a very gentle curve all the time. it's just no big deal.


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## raleys1 (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (sciencegeek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciencegeek* »_nah, it doesn't matter. just buy one new tire, it'll wear down to about the same as the others over the course of a year.
having one larger tire is like driving a very gentle curve all the time. it's just no big deal.

It is when your driving an AWD vehicle with a complex system of computers, you can do some major damage to your car.
Linder


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## DicknNancy (Nov 6, 2004)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (raleys1)*

Not only will driving on mismatched tires potentially damage the drive train system on a Touareg, the vehicle will handle like is badly out of alignment as the all wheel drive system attempts to compensate for the difference in circumferences in the tires. I just attended and completed a Nationally Certified Tire TPMS class by TIA and the industry standard for repairing a puncture on a tire is to only repair the wound if it is more than a finger width away from the actual edge of the tire.
The only method of correctly repairing a speed rated tire is to use a plug-patch combination or to first plug the tire and follow it with a patch on the inside of the tire. Anything else will void the speed rating on any tire and some manufactures do not condone repairing a speed rated tire at all. Please check with your tire manufacture to determine the repair ability of any tire.
A speed rated tire that is repaired incorrectky will void the speed rating and by law you can not replace a speed rated tire with another tire that has a lesser speed rating (Portion of the new TREAD Act passed by congress in a response to the Ford/Firestone problems)
I know that having a flat tire is a hassle, but tire safety is not something to joke around with. You life does depend on your tires.


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## Treggone (Jun 18, 2005)

I had two flat tires with nails close to the wall and had a small shop repair them, they did very good until wear down. As long as they do a good job on the repair they should be ok unless you drive at like a f1 driver.


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## sup44 (Nov 26, 2003)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (Yeti35)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Yeti35* »_Aircooled is correct for I went through this last year when I sliced a side wall on a tire at the rally. I bought one brand new tire and had it turned down to the size of the other three. If you get one new tire and don't do that you run the risk of screwing something up in the AWD system. 

This is the first I have ever read about this subject... It actually explains some issues I have expeirienced with my 20"s during last summer.... I replaced a single tire with a new one. The other 3 where about 30% worn..... I don't believe the car has driven as smoothly with those tires/wheel since, but figured it was due to balancing or uneven wear.... Just last month, when i decided to put the chrome 20"s back on, my tire shop stated my tires need to be replaced except for the newer one. The shop noted cupping on all but the newer tire....
I decided to just sell the wheels and get a whole new wheel/tire set up (silver paint, polished stainless lip).. the new 20s" feel nice.. , but I am going to get an alignment just in case that may have something to do with the cupping wear ....
I wonder if not only my ride would of felt better ( i must of gotten at least 2 balances last year because I kept feeling a minor shake) but my tires would of worn evenly too, if I where to get the new tire matched up.....


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## xonetruthcrewx (Nov 26, 2005)

I would plug it. The shop just wants your money. Buy a plug kit for 40 bucks, plug it yourself and be on your way. ARB Plug Kit


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## KKToureg (Sep 1, 2004)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (KKToureg)*

My husband found this site which lead me to believe having all tires with the same wear (diameter?) really is important: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...id=18
Is there a reasonable, layman's method for accurately measuring a tire's diameter without say... precision calipers?


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (KKToureg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KKToureg* »_My husband found this site which lead me to believe having all tires with the same wear (diameter?) really is important: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...id=18
Is there a reasonable, layman's method for accurately measuring a tire's diameter without say... precision calipers?

I would think that the recommendation for the Touareg would be the same as their recommendation for the Cayenne.

_Quote, originally posted by *Tire Rack* »_Porsche	Cayenne within 30% of the other tire on the same axle's remaining treadwear.

You could use a cloth tape measure like a seamstress uses to measure the circumference.


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## xonetruthcrewx (Nov 26, 2005)

A tread depth gauge can be bought at most auto parts store for like 5 bucks. Thats the best way to measure the tread depth.


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## pfb2 (Apr 29, 2006)

As long as it isn't right on the corner or on the sidewall, patch it.
You will have plenty of shops that will give you gloom and doom stories, but it's pretty much bull**** unless it's the sidewall.


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## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (KKToureg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TireRack* »_As an example of different tire diameters resulting from tires worn to different tread depths, we'll compare two 225/45R17-sized tires, a new tire with its original tread depth of 10/32-inch and a second tire worn to 8/32-inch of remaining tread depth. The new 225/45R17-sized tire has a calculated diameter of 24.97", a circumference of 78.44" and will roll 835 times each mile. The same tire worn to 8/32-inch of remaining tread depth is calculated to be 1/8" shorter with a diameter of 24.84", have a circumference of 78.04" and will roll 839 times per mile. 

This is best put into perspective by comparing how much more an outer tire (of same diameter as the inner tire) spins when you drive a curve.
In the Tire Rack example, the difference in revolutions between the two tires is about 1/200.
So, this would be equivalent to driving a circle clockwise whose inner radius (right wheels) is 1/200 smaller than the outer radius (left wheels).
The Touareg's right and left wheels are about 5 feet apart. The radius of the circle you'd be driving to mimic the difference in treadwear in the above example would be 1000 feet!
Many of us drive lots of miles on windy roads whose curves have a radius of way way less than 1000 feet. The drivetrain constantly has to adjust to much larger differences in the number of revolutions each wheel performs.
On the Touareg, a difference in 1/4 inch of treadwea is just 1/60 of the total radius of the tire. That's like a circle with a 300 foot radius.
I just don't think it's a big deal ...


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## V10 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (sciencegeek)*

sciencegeek - the advanced traction control systems in the Touareg/Cayenne/Q7 (and may others) can detect very small differences in tire rotation. The small difference in tire diameter will at a minimum put stress on the drive-line (differentials) since there will be changes to the percentage of traction the computer sees at each axle. We don't drive in circles but those of us who drive on winding roads frequently are definitely using the traction control systems more than we think. In this case, if you did have a tire diameter difference you'd be exaggerating it even more in turns than what the computer is expecting and you can get all sorts of problems including abs braking and traction control issues.
You can have a tire shaved down to the correct diameter and it will not cost that much - most commercial tire (Truck) centers will have such equipment. If you personally don't think it is a big deal then that's fine but advising someone repeatedly that's not a big deal is really thoughtless since their lives and safety are at stake.



_Modified by V10 at 2:19 AM 5-27-2008_


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## Phagus (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (sciencegeek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciencegeek* »_
This is best put into perspective by comparing how much more an outer tire (of same diameter as the inner tire) spins when you drive a curve.
In the Tire Rack example, the difference in revolutions between the two tires is about 1/200.
So, this would be equivalent to driving a circle clockwise whose inner radius (right wheels) is 1/200 smaller than the outer radius (left wheels).
The Touareg's right and left wheels are about 5 feet apart. The radius of the circle you'd be driving to mimic the difference in treadwear in the above example would be 1000 feet!
Many of us drive lots of miles on windy roads whose curves have a radius of way way less than 1000 feet. The drivetrain constantly has to adjust to much larger differences in the number of revolutions each wheel performs.
On the Touareg, a difference in 1/4 inch of treadwea is just 1/60 of the total radius of the tire. That's like a circle with a 300 foot radius.
I just don't think it's a big deal ...

Man, I've tried these arguments before. People just don't get it. 
What about the differences in tire rolling diameters caused by differences in tire pressure, which are in turn caused by exposure to sun/shade (one side of the car is in sun, the other - in the shade)? And that's assuming the tires are inflated exactly the same, which is simply impossible.


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## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (V10)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V10* »_If you personally don't think it is a big deal then that's fine but advising someone repeatedly that's not a big deal is really thoughtless since their lives and safety are at stake.

Except that this is a forum where the whole point is to discuss things. We're all adults here and can make up our own minds about fact and fiction in the posts.


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## V10 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (sciencegeek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciencegeek* »_
Except that this is a forum where the whole point is to discuss things. We're all adults here and can make up our own minds about fact and fiction in the posts.









I guess you add the fiction


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## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (V10)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V10* »_I guess you add the fiction
















hee hee. happy to provide entertainment.


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## sup44 (Nov 26, 2003)

*Re: replace all four tires because of ONE small nail? (****us)*


_Quote, originally posted by *****us* »_
Man, I've tried these arguments before. People just don't get it. 
What about the differences in tire rolling diameters caused by differences in tire pressure, which are in turn caused by exposure to sun/shade (one side of the car is in sun, the other - in the shade)? And that's assuming the tires are inflated exactly the same, which is simply impossible. 

Which side are you promoting.... Big or Not Big Deal ? Shave or Not to Shave?


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