# APR vs UNI-tronic



## Kamil Pawlak (Apr 26, 2013)

Which one do you guys prefer. I'm leaning towards unitronic since i can tune everything myself. I just can't seem to find where to buy it, there is no buy button on unitronic website!:banghead:


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## oblique (Jan 10, 2016)

Kamil Pawlak said:


> Which one do you guys prefer. I'm leaning towards unitronic since i can tune everything myself. I just can't seem to find where to buy it, there is no buy button on unitronic website!:banghead:


You can get it from modded euros:
https://www.moddedeuros.com/products/unitronic-stage-1-dsg-upgrade-dq250-mqb


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

APR or Eurodyne ONLY


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## selp (Sep 17, 2015)

high_octaneGTI said:


> APR or Eurodyne ONLY


explain..


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

selp said:


> explain..


I wasted $700 on unitronic software that didn't work. They're quick to take your money and SLOW to resolve the issue. 
They're dsg software didn't work on my Gti. 

They will be on my $H¡T list forever.


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## [email protected] (Jul 3, 2013)

Kamil Pawlak said:


> Which one do you guys prefer. I'm leaning towards unitronic since i can tune everything myself. I just can't seem to find where to buy it, there is no buy button on unitronic website!:banghead:


We encourage you to purchase our Performance Software and Hardware products through our Authorized Dealer Network. You can either visit one of our Authorized Dealer's websites who offers online purchasing, if that's the route you'd like to go, or you can give a call to the Authorized Dealer of your choice to purchase over the phone. As always, please don't hesitate to let me know!



high_octaneGTI said:


> I wasted $700 on unitronic software that didn't work. They're quick to take your money and SLOW to resolve the issue.
> They're dsg software didn't work on my Gti.
> 
> They will be on my $H¡T list forever.


Once again, I'm very sorry that we weren't able to work through another revision of the _custom_ Stage 3 DSG file you requested for your _MK5 GTI_, within the timeframe you wanted.


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## DarthVWer (May 18, 2015)

I love APR, before I would get Garrett but I don't think theyre big players anymore. I ran into issues with my ECU with my VW and they worked hard to resolve the issue.


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Once again, I'm very sorry that we weren't able to work through another revision of the _custom_ Stage 3 DSG file you requested for your _MK5 GTI_, within the timeframe you wanted.


Would feel a lot less cheated if I got some of the money back since I started complaining within 3 weeks of install. 

Funny how the base dsg file from Eurodyne worked the first time with zero issues


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## P-40 (Mar 9, 2013)

My Girlfriend and I were waiting to get our S3 tuned, literally just got back from RPI here in BC and couldn't be happier, it feels like a completely different car. If we had to do it again, we would in a second...

....Trying to find a reason to head out for a drive again. haha :laugh:


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

P-40 said:


> My Girlfriend and I were waiting to get our S3 tuned, literally just got back from RPI here in BC and couldn't be happier, it feels like a completely different car. If we had to do it again, we would in a second...
> 
> ....Trying to find a reason to head out for a drive again. haha :laugh:


... and this is in regards of what tune? . What is RPI?(I am assuming a shop) and what tune do they have?. The topic is about Unitronic and APR.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

high_octaneGTI said:


> I wasted $700 on unitronic software that didn't work. They're quick to take your money and SLOW to resolve the issue.
> They're dsg software didn't work on my Gti.
> 
> They will be on my $H¡T list forever.


So not to contradict you but I have been going to a local VW/Audi car meet for 13 years. When I consulted with my fellow car enthusiast about getting a tune for my Audi they told me that Eurodyne was a good product but one of the VW car owners from the car meet pointed out that despite running their good eurodyne tune he says that he would prefer not to deal with Eurodyne because of their customer service. What I am trying to point out is that there are opinions everywhere. Maybe Unitronic had a glitch with their software when you were trying to get your tune but that doesn't mean that they are a bad company. 

I had a bad corrupted file on a MK5 GLI with GIAC. The problem was resolved. I mean you have to give the tuners a chance to fix the problems, they deal with many customers across the country(many phone calls, many different issues).


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## P-40 (Mar 9, 2013)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> ... and this is in regards of what tune? . What is RPI?(I am assuming a shop) and what tune do they have?. The topic is about Unitronic and APR.


My fault, sorry.

We went with the APR tune. RPI Equiped is a shop out here, you're correct. 

The car seems to transition from one gear to the next smoother too. Although I did have one harsh shift yesterday.. Guy at the shop said APR (as of last month) recommends upgrading your spark plugs to help smooth everything out. 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## selp (Sep 17, 2015)

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...nic-ECU-amp-DSG-tunes?p=11401019#post11401019


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> So not to contradict you but I have been going to a local VW/Audi car meet for 13 years. When I consulted with my fellow car enthusiast about getting a tune for my Audi they told me that Eurodyne was a good product but one of the VW car owners from the car meet pointed out that despite running their good eurodyne tune he says that he would prefer not to deal with Eurodyne because of their customer service. What I am trying to point out is that there are opinions everywhere. Maybe Unitronic had a glitch with their software when you were trying to get your tune but that doesn't mean that they are a bad company.
> 
> I had a bad corrupted file on a MK5 GLI with GIAC. The problem was resolved. I mean you have to give the tuners a chance to fix the problems, they deal with many customers across the country(many phone calls, many different issues).


Glitch or not, the initial file did not perform correctly. Took them a month to send me another file....that file was worse than the first one...2 more months went by and I still never got another updated file. 

Unitronic wanted me to pay even more money for them to make me a file that would "work". Since I did not want to pay additional money for them to make my issue a priority they said they would only work on it during their free time. I think that's total BS because my tune should have worked correctly the first time. 

Unitronic can play the "custom file" excuse all they want but after my bad experience I started reading into if more and found a number of people with the same problem. 

Even on the mk6 forum there are numerous people that have slipping issues with just the stage 2 dsg file.


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## roadrunner_oz (Jul 30, 2015)

*APR:*
- The APR ECU S1 (98 RON) produces 265kW and 515Nm (kW was confirmed on a dyno I did back in 2015). The APR Oz site claims more power, however it is the APR US site that is accurate.
- The APR DSG tune is aimed at improving DSG shift points in all modes, raised LC RPM’s, faster shifts etc
- Flash type tune that can only be performed at an APR agent
- Tune is VIN locked for life
- Flash counter preserved on ECU(not convinced), not on TCU

*UniTronics:*
- The ECU S1+ (98 RON) produces 279kW and 475Nm.
- The DSG tune is aimed at improving DSG shift points in all modes, raised LC RPM’s, faster shifts etc.
- Flash type tune that can be performed at UniTronic agent OR at home using your laptop if you purchase their USB 2.0/OBD2 cable.
- Tune is VIN locked for life
- Flash counter not preserved on ECU or TCU
- Free updates - no agent install fee with DIY cable
- Engine & DSG protection as requires operating temps to be achieved


*Background:*
I have had the APR ECU S1 tune for about 1 year and it has been a great tune and had no issues. The APR DSG tune was installed in September and initially it was a great transformation over stock DSG behaviour, HOWEVER recently it began to ‘re-adapt’ and develop some very annoying behaviour. This included rushing upshift from 4th to 6th in D; constantly switching between 3rd and 4th in S mode when on and off the throttle. To date APR support has not been of much assistance and has vaguely stated that it is a DSG adaption issue out of their control and re-flashing wouldn’t resolve it.
Frustrated, I decided to dump the DSG tune. I also decided to swap the ECU tune as I always had reservations about the very high torque output and the impact it would have on the transmission in the long-term.
I looked towards UniTronic as they have the home DIY flash tuning option, which is the method I’d used on my previous cars with great success. Also, their tune offers a higher power output and lower torque which I thought may serve the S3 better.

*Install of UniTronic:*
So I went the DIY option with my laptop and the UniTronic cable (internet connection required). The software install etc is all very straight forward as is the use of their software. Truly idiot proof!
Time to flash ECU was 15mins, TCU was 8mins. Pretty much the same time as APR at the shop.

*Initial UniTronic review:*
So early days as only had it installed for 200km which was a mix of traffic and aggressive country driving.
ECU tune:
- Can't feel the impact of the lower torque. Certainly delivers the ‘punch’ that you'd expect.
- Top end is better and feels to continue to rev freely and pull up to red line.
- Linear in delivery especially in the higher rev range. Power is nice and progressive. The biggest difference is how freely and smoothly it climbs through the entire revs range.
- Throttle response is great, as was APR's.
- Compared to APR it is, just smoother and more refined. The APR tune feels very boosty and wild, sort of on/off feel, which certainly isn't a bad thing and can be more exciting. Best way to say it is the APR definitely has that "tuned" feel.
DSG tune:
Well this was always going to be interesting, as APR agent said re-flashing wouldn’t resolve my problems…. Well that's utter BS!! Problems were solved! The UniTronic has transformed the DSG again, just hope it lasts.
- In D mode:
o Great shift points. It re-acts far better to driving style and throttle position in applying the appropriate shifts. When cruising in traffic and using light throttle (<20%), it changes up at lower revs, however in moderate throttle (>20%) is marks the shifts higher accordingly. The APR just didn't seem to get this right if at all.
o Doesn't hang in 1st. The APR hung is 1st too long in slow traffic and parking stations etc.
o Doesn't rush the changes to from 4th onwards like the APR tune does. With UniTronic, under light throttle 6th is only selected around 75kph.
o Shifts are noticeably smoother than APR (may be due to lower torque?)
o Aggressive driving is excellent, as was APR's
- In S mode:
o Same as APR in that is doesn’t hold gears too long, especially in 2nd.
o As with D, it is far better a matching shifts to driving style than APR.
o Smoother shifts. APR could be clunky.
o Less confusion in gear selection than APR. The APR would constantly change up and down at certain speeds on small throttle inputs.
- M mode:
o Not much different here. Allows rev limiter to be hit & removes kick down etc
o Seems slightly quicker to respond to paddles and less clunky.

*Initial Conclusion:*
There’s nothing in it performance wise between the ECU tunes, both are excellent and very quick! Overall I am very pleased, although time will tell re the DSG adaption. I certainly would NOT recommend the APR DSG tune though due to the way it changes shift points over time, constant jumping shifts in S, and is rougher on the changes compared to UniTronic. The Unitronic also shifts according to driving style, which I never felt with the APR DSG tune.

I really like the fact that I can now control my own flashing process at home and easily get updates etc without having to go to a tuner and pay $$$ for their time or wait for APR Australia to decide on releasing updates. I can also unflash for dealer visits and although the flash counter is incremented, there seem no reports of this automatically raising a TD1 to date. I am also sceptical of APR preserving the flash counter as through VCDS my ECU flash counter incremented by 1 after APR was removed!?!

So to sum up, I'd say the UniTronic will probably be kept after the 15 day trial period and I won't be going back to APR as the way things stand. The APR is in no way superior. If APR want to stay competitive in the tuning game they'd be wise to release a DIY cable as the game has changed, as well as admit when there is an issue with their tune as there is with the DSG tune (reported by multiple people).


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

love the Unitronic stage1 and now stage2 and dsg tunes on my S3
uniconnect feature is just a dream-come-true for me, b/c time is money for me. i don't feel like driving an hour to a tuner before wanting to go "back to stock", and also updates.


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## Spoooolin (Mar 31, 2015)

glad iam not the only one who feels the same way about the APR DSG tune. Loved it at first, and slowly seems to be going back to how it drove before. Sucks I am out the 800 bucks now. Might have to bite the bullet and make the swap.


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## selp (Sep 17, 2015)

Does anyone know the effects in 1/4 mile for a DSG tune? regardless of the supplier?
I assume it ought to help the times, due to faster shifting, and other enhancements. But I have never seen proof.


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## roadrunner_oz (Jul 30, 2015)

Perhaps best to avoid the APR DSG. This GolfR has dead DSG weeks after loading APR DSG software: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7695497-DSG-Broken-after-TCU-tune


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## sgt_cr (Mar 18, 2015)

roadrunner_oz said:


> Perhaps best to avoid the APR DSG. This GolfR has dead DSG weeks after loading APR DSG software: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7695497-DSG-Broken-after-TCU-tune


Are you just going to go to every single post about APR and posting this stuff? lol are you having like a vendetta against them or did they bite you when you were small kid? 

Im guessing this could be a really issue if more ppl are starting to post similar problems and proofs about it, and besides everyone knows that this type of tunes and not just APR will increase your chances to have something going wrong, do you really think that making your engine and your car overperfom will not have any side effects?


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

I think it's funny after I started to bash Unitronic... Their forum rep stopped responding to me and this guy started to bash apr and praise uni. 

maybe they're one in the same person lol


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## [email protected] (Jul 3, 2013)

high_octaneGTI said:


> I think it's funny after I started to bash Unitronic... Their forum rep stopped responding to me and this guy started to bash apr and praise uni.
> 
> maybe they're one in the same person lol


I'm sorry for not replying, but that is quite far fetched. I do my best to stay up-to-date on all threads on all the forums. I don't think the forum is the correct avenue to discuss the specifics of your custom Stage 3 DSG calibration, requesting a feature within the timeframe that you wanted, that is not advertised to be included in our standard production DSG software, or associated refund. If you'd like to discussion further, please email me directly at john [at] unitronic [dot] ca. Thank you!


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

It wouldn't have needed to be a "custom" calibration if it did what it was advertised to do

Nowhere on the site does it say the customer has to use your ecu software with your tcu software to achieve advertised results. It wasn't until after I made the purchase that you then told me " if your not using our ecu tune with the tcu, it will probably never work" 

My clutches were slipping even before the 500nm tq limit and that was with the "increased" clutch pressure...which even that proved to be false if you look at the cp logs. 

What's there to discuss? Unitronic made sub par software and I was cheated out of $700. I cut my losses and moved on to a company that got the tune correct the first time around. And don't play that "oh you have Eurodyne for the ecu and tcu" crap. My ecu tune is custom, the tcu tune was their base file.


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## DeadBoltPoison (Aug 30, 2014)

high_octaneGTI said:


> It wouldn't have needed to be a "custom" calibration if it did what it was advertised to do
> 
> Nowhere on the site does it say the customer has to use your ecu software with your tcu software to achieve advertised results. It wasn't until after I made the purchase that you then told me " if your not using our ecu tune with the tcu, it will probably never work"
> 
> ...


Hmm thats interesting. I'm running Giac's Stage 2+ ECU file and i reached out to Unitronic about there Stage 2 DSG tune in regards to how my current ECU tune or any other tuners would work with it.

This is what they told me


> Thank you for the message. Our DSG Performance Software is best optimized using a matching Unitronic ECU Performance Software, however you may use another source for your ECU software without any loss in performance. If you have any other questions, please let me know.


Making me second guess this choice.


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

DeadBoltPoison said:


> Hmm thats interesting. I'm running Giac's Stage 2+ ECU file and i reached out to Unitronic about there Stage 2 DSG tune in regards to how my current ECU tune or any other tuners would work with it.
> 
> This is what they told me
> 
> Making me second guess this choice.


Here's one of our emails from a few months ago


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## [email protected] (Jul 3, 2013)

high_octaneGTI said:


> It wouldn't have needed to be a "custom" calibration if it did what it was advertised to do
> 
> Nowhere on the site does it say the customer has to use your ecu software with your tcu software to achieve advertised results. It wasn't until after I made the purchase that you then told me " if your not using our ecu tune with the tcu, it will probably never work"
> 
> ...


This thread/topic is related to the 8V A3/S3, not the DQ250 Cxx that you're speaking about, just for others reading to avoid confusion. I see that there is already confusion within this thread by talking about your 2006-2008MY Cxx DQ250.

We do not advertise increased clutch pressure for your DQ250 Cxx. It is something that can be done for your DQ250 Cxx, but we were not able to do it within the timeframe that you had expected. Surely, using our ECU and DSG software is most ideal, however, I did not state to you that it would "probably never work" with regard to the increased clutch pressure, in that context. I indicated that it probably wouldn't work out to provide you with a file, within the timeframe that you had expected.


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

The first file that was ever uploaded to my tcu was titled "with increased CP". That file was before any of the "custom calibration" files that sucked. 

My point being, if uni can't tune a tcu that's been on the market for more than 8 years...what makes you think they can tune a s3 that's only been available a fraction of that time. 

PS:
Just so everybody knows, Eurodynes DSG flash license for maestro is only $450

You can flash it from home and edit all your shift points for D,M and S. 

No longer will you have to wait on a Unitronic engineer to take their sweet ass time in getting a file to you.


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## roadrunner_oz (Jul 30, 2015)

high_octaneGTI said:


> I wasted $700 on unitronic software that didn't work. They're quick to take your money and SLOW to resolve the issue.
> They're dsg software didn't work on my Gti.
> 
> They will be on my $H¡T list forever.


Think that the thread is referring to modern vehicles, not an 8 year old GTi. You are aware there are some differences? LOL


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

Captain save a bro to the rescue!


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

high_octaneGTI said:


> My point being, if uni can't tune a tcu that's been on the market for more than 8 years...what makes you think they can tune a s3 that's only been available a fraction of that time.



Are you ok?
Many of us already have the UNI combo. And it's magic on the S3. 

You need a snickers bro.


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

Somebody asked why I said APR or Eurodyne only. So I explained. 

I'm sure if you paid for a tune that didn't perform properly you'd be the same way.


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## roadrunner_oz (Jul 30, 2015)

high_octaneGTI said:


> Captain save a bro to the rescue!
> 
> 
> 
> 100%, then if you actually could read and comprehend things, you'd see that my problems THEN started with the DSG. Read the review I posted, for you maybe read it a few times so you can grasp it LOL


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

Yeah I guess your right.... Then again, I take what you say with a grain of salt.


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## roadrunner_oz (Jul 30, 2015)

high_octaneGTI said:


> Yeah I guess your right.... Then again, I take what you say with a grain of salt.


I ran APR ECU tune for 12 months and it was flawless. I then went with their DSG tune which was great to start with, but then adaption issues started creeping in such as:
- holding gears too long in S
- racing through gears in D
- constantly indecisive shifts in S
- hard changes and WTF moments

APR did not address my complaints, and basically said nothing can be done as an adaption is and need to drive more in S mode to re-learn the DSG over time. Local APR agent wanted me to leave the car for them to investigate. Sorry, but all BS when you paying for a 'premium' product. It was a BETA product and I just don't think they should have released it as soon as they did. Report are that the new ver 2.0.1 still has many bugs too including the LC. I decided to move on, and cut my losses. Perhaps the UniTronic will also develop the same so called adaption issues?... time will tell


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