# ABA 2.0L supercharger assistance



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

I've in the market for more acceleration. I've been contemplating leasing a convertible BMW but it would be a minimum two year lease and no less than $480/month. A new car would be very nice but putting that much money into something that I won't own, well, in a year's time I could have a supercharger for my Jetta paid off!

I want a supercharger. I don't want a turbo. I drive in the real world which means I eat corners (Peloquin LSD). I don't want to deal with lag at any time nor sudden power mid-corner. Forced induction will give me the power I need for improved acceleration in my daily driver plus I want to get some FI experience 

Here are my current engine specs:
*OBDI engine w/158K miles (still running GREAT!)
* Custom mapped chip from Techtonics Tuning
* K&N air filter
* Brospeed header, ceramic coated
* AutoTech 270º cam and adjustable cam gear
* Air Temperature Control & air box mods: Kamei grill intake, constant diameter snorkle, etc.
* Pure synthetic oil in engine (Mobil 1)
* Full front KCD engine mount, my modified KCD rear engine mount.
* Neuspeed short shift kit. How to adjust the manual tranny shifter
* Zimmerman crossdrilled rotors and Mintex red pads
* MagnaFlow stainless-steel 2.25" exhaust system
* Head shaved a tad so compression is now 10.5:1
* Disabled EGR system
* Techtonics Tuning 55mm catalitic converter.
More vehicle details if you click me.

Without reading that unwieldy too long, 99+ page supercharger FAQ, what needs to be done to my engine to convert it to a supercharger? Cam change, compression change, etc.? I plan on installing the 'charger myself as I have the tools and skills.

The Vortech look like a nice set up but it seems no one sells them new so it seems my only option is a Bahn Brenner Stage II (that's what I'm willing to pay up to, Stage I + II)...I really don't need a Stage III. Who are the other [current] supercharger players that sell ABA 2.0 kits?

Any owner feedback of ABA engines w/superchargers?
TIA :snowcool:


----------



## crazysccrmd (Mar 31, 2006)

You don't have many options, pretty much just BBM lysholm, Neuspeed or a custom setup. There is an experimental ABA Z-Engineering setup that's been for sale in the classifieds, I'll see if I can find the link for you. In all honesty, a stock compression ABA turbo with a properly sized turbo will give you the boost you are wanting without a lot of low end lag. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5137610-FS-aba-2.0-z-engineering-supercharger


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

^^ what he said.

BBM kits are known for their ability to blow the charger's....
Have you ever driven an ABA-T to comment on the lag?
ABA t's properly done have a ton of low torque.....a turbo is really the only way to go IMO with an ABA.


----------



## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Supercharger's also have lag, Not just turbo's.

Supercharger









(Not my car)
Turbo








(Not my car)


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

GTijoejoe said:


> ^^ what he said.
> 
> BBM kits are known for their ability to blow the charger's....
> Have you ever driven an ABA-T to comment on the lag?
> ABA t's properly done have a ton of low torque.....a turbo is really the only way to go IMO with an ABA.


^^^ what he said 

my abomination
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5048934-G60-to-Xflow-turbo-build


----------



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

papo98jetta said:


> Supercharger's also have lag, Not just turbo's...


I've never heard of such so please explain.


----------



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

GTijoejoe said:


> ^^ what he said.
> 
> BBM kits are known for their ability to blow the charger's....
> Have you ever driven an ABA-T to comment on the lag?
> ABA t's properly done have a ton of low torque.....a turbo is really the only way to go IMO with an ABA.


Honestly, no, I have not driven an ABA-T so you have me there, however, I do know how turbo works. My wife has a 1.8t Passat and I can't stand it...but with an automatic tranny maybe that's what's causing my heartburn (?). Kit recommendations?

Reliability does concern me and I've heard about 'chargers not being as robust, at least on dubs. Would be good to know why they break down.

Anyone with an ABA-T race their car in SCCA, hillclimb, or other road-going (i.e., non-drag racing) event?


----------



## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Air_Cooled_Nut said:


> I've never heard of such so please explain.


Read it some where a long time ago, But I just searched a bit and can't find anything that suports that. So forget what I said, Sorry.

ABA with a BBM Supercharger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnuATvmqY6Q


----------



## crazysccrmd (Mar 31, 2006)

Air_Cooled_Nut said:


> I've never heard of such so please explain.


it's not necessarily 'lag', but a turbo will see higher boost levels faster and max boost sooner. a supercharger is belt driven so it doesnt reach max rpm (therefore max boost) until the engine is spinning at max rpm. if you want to run 10psi you wont get 10psi until 7k rpm, but might start building boost at 1500 rpm.

with a turbo you might not start building boost until a little later (dependent on the turbine/hotside) but it will generally build faster. you might not see boost until 2500rpm but will have full boost at 5000rpm. the usable power range is essentially larger with a turbo setup at similar boost levels


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

I have built several supercharged and turbocharged 2.0l aba 8v and 16v. i have also built lysholm
supercharged pg 1.8l and 1.9l 8v engines.

here are a few photos and videos.
2.0l aba 8v solid lifter head 225whp 250 wtq









1.8l pg lysholm 195whp 180wtq









1.9l pg lysholm 205whp 192wtq









1.8l pg 20v lysholm 272whp 240wtq









2.0l aba 16v lysholm 282whp 265wtq









2.0l aba gt3076 turbo 16v 458whp 355wtq









Video
16v aba lysholm dyno tuning




driving around





16v aba turbo dyno tuning





with the aba and a good sized turbo lag is not an issue. 
I autocross the 8v supercharged in 2nd gear the whole course compeeting in SM2.
the nospeed and vortex charger can not produce the power the lysholm does on 4 cyl engines.
:beer:opcorn::beer:


----------



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

I understand supercharger and turbo theory. I don't want ultimate horsepower. I don't care what will give me the most boost the quickest. The pictures are nice but I'm not making a purchase decision based on a pretty picture or video of a car sitting still on a dyno :screwy: I need real world experience.

Repoman, since you appear to have the qualifications, what would you recommend for an aggressively driven, daily driver that will NEVER see a drag strip, for a turbo KIT and a supercharger KIT? What would your preference be? No straight-cut gears like what it sounds like in the lysholm!

BTW, I did two seasons with my Jetta in Solo II, EP class. Tires are what kept me from being competitive...man, do they make a world of difference!


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

The lysholm supercharged aba is a blast daily, i daily drove mine for many years. 
all the torque and turning all the heads was fun but after awhile the siren noise whares on you, your family,your friends and neighbors.

the taller rod ratio of the aba makes more wtq over the power curve then any 1.8l 1.9l stroked 2.0l combination. and torque is what you want to get you moving. for autocross and daily driving it
will fit the bill.

as for Turbo there is a nice video of a Lysholm s/c aba Rabbit 2000lbs drag racing me in my Turbo Corrado 3000lbs.
we leave together, he pulls on me early but by 1/2 track i pull 1 car length on hit and watch him
try and catch me out the back door, which he almost does..... we run identical times 12.54.

I run my FI ABA'a at 8.5:1 comp ratio for longevity and they run long and hard that way.
the only difference you will notice between the FI application is the S/C will pull hard and continue to
pull and that rate to red line.
on the Turbo application it pulls hard then pulls harder and harder to red line.
either way you go, daily driving them they can and do get you in trouble with the law.:sly:

I will be at the PDX GTG tonight around 8pm if you want to see and talk in person.
There is only one S/C kit i would use and thats BBM Lysholm w/ 53mm-50mm pully.. the only down side is limited supplies.
the Turbo kit i would use the BBM turbo log manifold and use a gt2871 or gt3076 w/ .63 ar for best
over the rpm power curve.
:beer::beer:
first run is 2.0l aba 16vT vs DJM 2.0l aba 8v S/C rabbit


----------



## crazysccrmd (Mar 31, 2006)

http://forums.subdriven.com/showthread.php?3065964

i was going to link you to dyno plots to compare other people's setups to what fits your driving style but someone already made a thread like that :thumbup:


----------



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

Crazy, thanks for the link :thumbup:
Repo, PM me on the GTG location :beer:


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Turbo is more cost effective when you look at the price vs reliability and maintenance any local turbo shop or online seller will have replacement parts or rebuild kits but if you have a SC kit you are stuck with that one company and have to ship and be without your car for days,weeks,months not to mention the HP and upgrade ability of the turbo kit compared to the SC kits.


----------



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

Damn you Svedka, good points.


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

Turbo kit options are 
BBM stage 1 $2550 160hp no turbo options
BBM stage 2 $3250 200hp I/C no turbo options

Kinetic stage 1 $2550 160hp 
Kinetics stage 2 $3250 200hp I/C turbo options
Not sure if there C2 software supports the Turbo options

Piece together your own Turbo kit w/ GT2871R .63AR $2810
add a I/C Air to Air w/ piping $300
Water to Air w/ piping $450
300-400hp
minus software solution
local OBD1 or 2 tuning $500
Aftermarket EFI $1500


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

REPOMAN said:


> Turbo kit options are
> BBM stage 1 $2550 160hp no turbo options
> BBM stage 2 $3250 200hp I/C no turbo options
> 
> ...


Although BBM and Kinetics are great company's there are more options/upgrade ability if you piece it together yourself, You could piece a kit together for less than some shelf kits and have more power, there is some links in my g60 to turbo build on what parts you need and some cost's but remember every car is different and regardless there will be some customizing and fabrication needed even if you buy a shelf kit.:beer::beer::beer:

Here is a good one for 8v's 1.8 or 2.0 doesn't matter.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5119726-1.8-8v-turbo


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

I emailed Kinetics about there kit and turbo options, Asking them if there C2 [ OBD 1 and 2 software development company] is tuned for the larger turbo?
I also saw the stage 2 kit comes with a small cheap rotomaster T3/T4 50trim turbo. with out a head spacer in the kit i assume they made this kit for the OEM comp ratio of 9.6:1.
this would mean the turbo is only going to put out about 12psi max for a safe pump gas tune.
that is why the kit is rated at 200whp. The oem cam must also be figured in this setup.
I have asked for a dyno sheet of this kit to look at the power curve. we want high long and flat WTQ like
the S/C gives.
here are a few dyno sheet to compare power curves.

2.0l ABA g60 head 268 cams 30lbs inj's 20psi Lysholm Note the Green line that is the WTQ









Again 2.0l ABA solid lifter worked head 38lbs inj 24psi Lysholm. Note the high flat WTQ 200wtq @ 2700rpm 









Now this isn't fair this is my larger GT3076R w/82lbs injs 268cams note the wtq [email protected] 4000rpm and
322wtq flat and all the way to 7000rpm. This is due to cam profile and intake manifold setup.









For the 300whp mark this kit will need the larger Turbo, bigger cam and larger injectors. then of course tuning.

this kit might be the right starting place due to all the stuff in one box and not having to spend time piecing all the many things together.

if you get the kit and want the extra 100whp then there are a few thing that will be required.

[1] lower compression. 3 ways of doing this
Forged low comp pistons $550 the best way of doing it.
Machine the OEM pistons 20cc's this has a 15psi and 6800rpm limit $30ea
Build a thick Head Gasket. this is cheap and can handle 20psi of boost. $40 x2

[2] the kit has 42lbs injectors, 52lbs will be required to keep the duty cycle under 80% at 300whp

[3] Cam, Colin at TT has a great FI cam 268 w/ 114L/C for reduced overlap.

[4] ARP Fasteners, Head and Main studs

Tuning Tuning Tuning.


----------



## turbo_powered (Dec 5, 2007)

Damn that 2.0l 16v is bad effin ass. Ive been wantin to build one. Have an OBD1 2.0L and a 2.0L 16V. I think it's time to get the BBM conversion kit. Buildin this one from the bottom up. My Caddy is gonna haul ass with 400+ bhp.


----------

