# ECU tune, etc



## alarum_78 (Apr 14, 2003)

Seems its taking a long time to crack the new ecu on the Tiguan. That said, I think someone posted that they observed 20psi peak boost on the 2.0T Gen3B?? How much more can we really expect from the turbocharger on this motor.. I was hoping we would see a tune around 225-230hp /300ft/lb...but that seems like a bit of a goal if its already running that much boost.

Thoughts?


----------



## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

Yeah with my OBD logging I see it peak at 20. It also produces a calculated hp peak in the 190s. So there may be some usual VW sandbagging of hp numbers going on that would have to be dyno verified though.

I'd like to see a stage 1 tune at least hit the Euro 220hp/258 ft-lb 2.0TSI offering.


----------



## rev18gti (Sep 15, 2002)

socialD said:


> Yeah with my OBD logging I see it peak at 20. It also produces a calculated hp peak in the 190s. So there may be some usual VW sandbagging of hp numbers going on that would have to be dyno verified though.
> 
> I'd like to see a stage 1 tune at least hit the Euro 220hp/258 ft-lb 2.0TSI offering.


Yeah, a modest bump would make a huge difference and give a little more confidence.


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

socialD said:


> Yeah with my OBD logging I see it peak at 20. It also produces a calculated hp peak in the 190s. So there may be some usual VW sandbagging of hp numbers going on that would have to be dyno verified though.
> 
> I'd like to see a stage 1 tune at least hit the Euro 220hp/258 ft-lb 2.0TSI offering.


20 psi is absolute pressure. When you're using a regular mechanical boost gauge, it won't read 20 psi. To see what a boost gauge reads, subtract 1 atmosphere pressure from the 20 psia, and you get 5.3 psig.


----------



## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

BsickPassat said:


> 20 psi is absolute pressure. When you're using a regular mechanical boost gauge, it won't read 20 psi. To see what a boost gauge reads, subtract 1 atmosphere pressure from the 20 psia, and you get 5.3 psig.


I don't know about that. It's the Boost calculated PID in OBD Fusion not absolute. Which matched the mechanical boost gauge rating in other cars I've run it in. It's usually in single digits, but peaked at 20 with intake temp of 59 degrees which produced acceleration of 9.16ft/s^2.

I'll have to log another run and track the actual SAE PIDs for Boost pressure sensor and commanded boost as well.


----------



## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

BsickPassat said:


> 20 psi is absolute pressure. When you're using a regular mechanical boost gauge, it won't read 20 psi. To see what a boost gauge reads, subtract 1 atmosphere pressure from the 20 psia, and you get 5.3 psig.


Yeah here you can see the readings. Calculated boost of 19.58 but the absolute pressure is 35.


----------



## Eye Candy White (Nov 9, 2006)

The turbo is tiny, yes? Agreed that there's maybe not much more to expect here (certainly nothing like the gains that are being seen on the R/GTI, or even the 1.8T)?

It's curious that they've included such a small turbo on a large vehicle, and this is the best they could do on fuel economy - hitting a mixed rating in the low 20's is nothing to write home about - I achieve that on my MKV GTI on APR stage I on a K03 turbo (granted, in a lighter car, but still).

Not sure how VW thought <200HP was a competitive motor in this segment.

Wife would prefer to replace our GSW TDI with an Atlas, but doubting it fits in our 1938 era garage well (or at all), so we'll likely end up with the Tiguan.


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Eye Candy White said:


> The turbo is tiny, yes? Agreed that there's maybe not much more to expect here (certainly nothing like the gains that are being seen on the R/GTI, or even the 1.8T)?
> 
> It's curious that they've included such a small turbo on a large vehicle, and this is the best they could do on fuel economy - hitting a mixed rating in the low 20's is nothing to write home about - I achieve that on my MKV GTI on APR stage I on a K03 turbo (granted, in a lighter car, but still).
> 
> ...


Skoda puts the 1.4TSI on their Kodiaq, which has similar dimensions to our Tiguan (Allspace), but has 125 hp (148 lb-ft, FWD only) or 150 hp (183 lb-ft), and even a 2.0TSI with 180 hp (236 lb-ft).

or a 2.0TDI with 150 hp (251 lb-ft)


----------



## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

Gen 3B engine is okay for daily driving.

Tunes won't make our Tiguans fast, but they will make them fun.


----------



## colintrax (Feb 18, 2013)

Eye Candy White said:


> The turbo is tiny, yes? Agreed that there's maybe not much more to expect here (certainly nothing like the gains that are being seen on the R/GTI, or even the 1.8T)?
> 
> It's curious that they've included such a small turbo on a large vehicle, and this is the best they could do on fuel economy - hitting a mixed rating in the low 20's is nothing to write home about - I achieve that on my MKV GTI on APR stage I on a K03 turbo (granted, in a lighter car, but still).
> 
> Not sure how VW thought


Small turbo spools up faster, I'm gonna bet on a soccer mom car the idea is to minimize turbo lag before going for huge boost numbers. 
Your low fuel economy might be your driving habits.


----------



## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

Yeah good fuel economy requires keeping it out of boost. But it starts spooling up with very little provocation to hide any turbo lag.


----------



## Eye Candy White (Nov 9, 2006)

New GTI nets 25/33 MPG with more power, and I'm not sure anyone is out there saying that motor has terrible turbo lag.

New Tiguan is 22/27 in FWD form, which just seems odd to me, unless the curb weights in FWD to FWD format are tremendously different (guessing they're <500lbs, which to me would be crazy to lead to such a difference in MPG's if the new Tiguan motor is in fact more efficient).

It's like they set out to produce a more efficient motor and did the opposite. Haha. :banghead:


----------



## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

Comparing to GTI is silly. Up to 700lb difference and less aerodynamic.

But mpg numbers are up in comparison to the MK1 Tig despite being larger and heavier, so they met their goal...just nothing to write home about vs the competition.


----------



## caldwell (May 23, 2016)

What kind of power train losses are these new tig's seeing ? I am taking a guess at 20% ? 

184 x .20 = 36.8 ( 147.2 Wheel HP )

221 x .20 = 44.2 ( 176.8 Wheel TQ )

If a stage one tune could atleast get the drive train loss power back, that would be a huge improvement.


I would love to see what kind of power these could achieve with an Intake, Tune, and a Turbo Back Exhaust. This would make for a bad ass sleeper !


----------



## EPilot (Jul 27, 1999)

caldwell said:


> What kind of power train losses are these new tig's seeing ? I am taking a guess at 20% ?
> 
> 184 x .20 = 36.8 ( 147.2 Wheel HP )
> 
> ...


From the *2018 Tiguan - APR flash?* topic…



> It's not the normal GTI 2.0T, it's the new EPAtastic B-Cycle 2.0T. That means it has a tiny turbo (like the 1.8 golf), intake valve lift (yawn), and none of the other goodies the GTI gets. So, probably around 250 HP max on the stock turbo, vs 320 HP on the stock turbo if we got the european version (which uses the same engine as the GTI).


----------



## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

curious...

APR is getting 244hp and 303tq out of the gen3 1.8l Passat....which is the same motor and turbo (minus the B cycle). 
im guessing that the B cycle is controlled by the ECU to offer more power when needed, but if they could just "tune" that out and run the different cam profile, do you think we could potentially see 244hp and 303tq?

if this is possible, i would absolutely pick this tune up!


----------



## bateau (Jun 16, 2013)

If we can get ~20% bump, say 220hp and 260tq it would be worth it. 

I drove 3 cars yesterday, our Tig, a 2005 Forester and 2013 JSW TDI (to its buyback, sigh). The Tig does not feel any slower than the other two. Low-end torque definitely helps compared to Forester which is 700lbs lighter but also naturally aspirated with 170tq peak. JSW is also 700lbs lighter with 236 tq peak down low, but 6 gears vs 8 in the Tig. 

Compared to our old JSW, Tiguan ain’t half bad and way roomier inside. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## GavinD (Jun 19, 2014)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> curious...
> 
> APR is getting 244hp and 303tq out of the gen3 1.8l Passat....which is the same motor and turbo (minus the B cycle).
> im guessing that the B cycle is controlled by the ECU to offer more power when needed, but if they could just "tune" that out and run the different cam profile, do you think we could potentially see 244hp and 303tq?
> ...


I question your assertion that the Budack and non-Budack engines are the same with the exclusion of the extra hardware needed for changing operating cycles. We know nothing about the Otto cycle cam profiles, combustion chamber geometry, injection mapping, boost limits, etc. Just because they share an architecture and a displacement does not mean they are identical engines.

I would not hold your breath for identical performance figures with the other Gen3 2.0L engines. For all we know, there could be significant differences that will create hard limits to the power this engine can produce - we simply don't know yet.

All negative speculation aside, I hope we can see some numbers like that - it would really wake this car up!


----------



## JSWTDI09 (Feb 22, 2009)

GavinD said:


> I question your assertion that the Budack and non-Budack engines are the same with the exclusion of the extra hardware needed for changing operating cycles. We know nothing about the Otto cycle cam profiles, combustion chamber geometry, injection mapping, boost limits, etc. Just because they share an architecture and a displacement does not mean they are identical engines.


They don't share the same displacement (1.8 vs 2.0 L), and you are correct about most of the other points. However, I believe that the post you are referring to was really about the fact that the 2 engines share the same turbocharger. This was an attempt to dispel the idea that our stock turbo was too small to achieve any significant power improvement. Only time will tell how much can be done with this engine design.

Have Fun!

Don


----------



## blackgliguy (May 4, 2004)

Emailed George @ Burger Tuning today. He says they are targeting an April release for our motors.


----------



## RickHdz36 (Sep 3, 2009)

Joining in on this because I think a tune would really bring it alive. We just traded in our 2014 FWD for a 2018 AWD and man does it handle so much better and for the lack of HP I can barely tell the difference in take off and highway speeds. But since it is my wifes car, tuning would probably the only upgrade I could sell her.


----------



## balesm01 (Mar 7, 2003)

Just realized - did they put a MAF back in this engine? One of the most annoying and unreliable piece of crap. On my MK6 R I was cleaning it continuously.


----------



## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

blackgliguy said:


> Emailed George @ Burger Tuning today. He says they are targeting an April release for our motors.


im really curious to see what they will be able to produce, especially with our small turbo...i wouldnt be surprised if we get a massive torque increase, but HP will still be about 220.


----------



## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

With a tune or JB4 alone, I don't really expect more than 230-240 hp and 280-300 lbs-ft of torque.

Burger is also planning to do some IS20/IS38 retrofit tests. Can't wait to see if they succeed and what they come up with in April-May.

One of the advantages of the JB4 is that you can just start with a basic setup, and then tweak settings as you add bolt-ons or possibly retrofit a bigger turbo. No need to pay for a stage upgrade.


----------



## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

Bawlti said:


> With a tune or JB4 alone, I don't really expect more than 230-240 hp and 280-300 lbs-ft of torque.
> 
> Burger is also planning to do some IS20/IS38 retrofit tests. Can't wait to see if they succeed and what they come up with in April-May.
> 
> One of the advantages of the JB4 is that you can just start with a basic setup, and then tweak settings as you add bolt-ons or possibly retrofit a bigger turbo. No need to pay for a stage upgrade.



i would be EXTREMELY happy if we were able to get 240hp and 300tq our of our Tigs....happy enough to even consider keeping it!

also need to find out how to get on their list of test vehicles for that IS38!!! hahaha


----------



## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> i would be EXTREMELY happy if we were able to get 240hp and 300tq our of our Tigs....happy enough to even consider keeping it!
> 
> also need to find out how to get on their list of test vehicles for that IS38!!! hahaha


The new Audi A4 Ultra has a 2.0 TFSI with Miller cycle and similar specs to our Tiguan. I'm pretty sure it's the same engine and turbo.

This company is selling a tuning box for the A4 Ultra, which bumps the power to 235 hp and 280 tq: https://www.vividracing.com/tuned-ecu-tuning-box-kit-audi-tfsi-ultra-140-190-p-151861869.html

The JB4 being for sure a superior piggyback than this one, I think we can realistically expect lightly superior numbers to these.

Also, Arin from APR speculated in the APR thread a max of 250 hp for the Gen 3B. So, 235-250 hp seems possible.

EDIT: Also, another reference, the Golf/Sportwagen, with its 1.8T and small IS12 turbo, has 170 hp/200 tq, which are bumped to 245 hp/300 tq with a stage 1 tune on oct 93.


----------



## Eye Candy White (Nov 9, 2006)

Wife and I went out for some test drives today:

VW Atlas
VW Tiguan
Subaru Outback
Subaru felt tighter than I remember (drove one back in early 2015 when we ended up buying the GSW TDI instead). It was still gutless, however, and the CVT transmission and how things are tuned really wants to jolt off the line unless you've perfected your feather-weight touch from a stop.

VW Atlas impressed us most; granted, we love the looks and overall package, and honestly the VR6 just felt great. It's a heavy car, but the way they've got it set-up, I definitely didn't leave feeling like it was horribly under-powered.

VW Tiguan drove fine, and felt similar to our GSW TDI in many ways, just higher. However, the motor they have in there is just gutless. I actually think the Outback felt more inspired and zesty compared to the 4-Motion Tiguan. On paper it seems like it should feel more alive than the Outback, but the butt-dyno said otherwise.

We are up in the air on what to replace our GSW TDI with; we want more space, which all would deliver on (the Atlas MUCH more so).

If the Tiguan had a GTI powerplant in it, I'd have driven one home today. The cycle/tune on the Tiguan 2.0T just kills the car for me a bit. It drives a bit like a 2008 Honda CR-V to me in terms of engine involvement.

Turned into somewhat of a review, but felt appropriate place to speak about how gutless the motor in the Tiguan is now.

PS: I would not believe that the new A4 has the same 2.0T setup as the Tiguan. It has to have a larger turbo and more urgency to it, or people would not be buying new 2.0T A4's. The Tiguan drives like a higher displacement I4; there's just no signs of turbo-influenced torque to me in it.


----------



## BTLew81 (May 17, 2005)

The A4 Ultra has the same exact engine as the Tig. Regular A4 has a different engine.


----------



## ButMudBrooks (Jul 18, 2015)

Eye Candy White said:


> Wife and I went out for some test drives today:
> 
> VW Atlas
> VW Tiguan
> ...


Sounds like you didn't drive the Tig in sport mode.


----------



## rocketjay1 (Jan 25, 2018)

*Latest Burger Tuning info on the Tiguan*

Hi Seth,

We had some issues with one of the JB4 functions on the Tiguan specifically so bit the bullet and we getting our own one next week so things will progress quickly.
We will make a thread on www.n54tech.com in the VW once the car is in with time frames and information. 
If its a simple fix it will be a matter of a few weeks before release.

Thanks,

George


----------



## Jovian (Aug 29, 2006)

Fantastic, looking forward to it! Girl is going to love it in her Tiguan.


----------



## TX_tig (Apr 28, 2018)

rocketjay1 said:


> Hi Seth,
> 
> We had some issues with one of the JB4 functions on the Tiguan specifically so bit the bullet and we getting our own one next week so things will progress quickly.
> We will make a thread on www.n54tech.com in the VW once the car is in with time frames and information.
> ...


I am also looking forward to a tune. Can’t wait!


----------



## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

Thanks for the update


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 11, 2015)

We took delivery of our car today so good news for all. Need to work out a fuel pressure sensor gremlin and we good to go.

For guys that have been running the JB4 without the sensor I got you on a list so we will send out the correct harnesses as soon as we got it tied up.


----------



## 2THEXTRM (Dec 5, 2017)

I'll be first in line, stock is adequate for daily driving but we need that hit when we put our foot down.


----------



## Coderedpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Looking forward to it


----------



## sc5157 (Apr 20, 2005)

*Engine Tune*

Has anyone done a time on their Tiguan? I am interested in a tune for mine. Just a stage 1 to give it just a little more than what it has and was wondering what others have went with.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mk4gtivr6turbo (Nov 5, 2007)

Nothing out as of yet

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## sc5157 (Apr 20, 2005)

mk4gtivr6turbo said:


> Nothing out as of yet
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Ok thanks! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JSWTDI09 (Feb 22, 2009)

You might want to read this thread for more information: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8824258-2018-Tiguan-APR-flash
They have not yet figured out how to crack the ECUs on these new cars. It is not just the Tiguan but also many newer VWs and Audis. The tuners are working on it but there is currently no timeline for the release of any ECU tunes.

Have Fun!

Don


----------



## tdb2 (Mar 20, 2018)

*Anyone tried Chipwerke tune?*

Sister forum for Jetta VII is talking about Chipwerke tune here. It also looks like they have a version for NA Tiguan. Anyone tried it?


----------



## GavinD (Jun 19, 2014)

I'll be honest, that thing looks sketchy as hell just based on the website alone. No dyno charts of any sort, lots of claims, but nothing to back it up. All the boxes look the same for every vehicle, and all have a connector that I've never seen in any VW, so no idea how the hell it hooks up. The review on the Jetta 7 forum makes it seem like it just turns up the boost, and it has a potentiometer inside that you adjust to change the max boost. 1996 called, they want their tuning methods back.

I wouldn't.

Burger Motorsports will have a JB1/4 out soon, and they're a reputable company that publishes directions, dyno charts, and has at least one employee who posts to the forum that you can ask questions to. You connect with Bluetooth and can make adjustments via your phone. There's actual R&D that goes into the product that you can see.

Don't rush it. It takes time to make high-quality stuff, and considering that random black box with a fiddly knob costs more than the JB4, I would just wait.


----------



## Mikey RRRs (Jun 8, 2017)

*Tiguan ECU Tune*

So I’ve contacted couple of “heavy hitters” I guess that’s what I shall call them since I’m desperate for more power. I was told that APR has released a tune for the MQB TIguan B cycle tune but i would have to send out the ECU to three. The one person that has received it had his getting installed back in the car and haven’t gotten any info/feedback from him. But I’m super excited to know it should be soon!


----------



## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8824258-2018-Tiguan-APR-flash&highlight=APR


----------



## Mikey RRRs (Jun 8, 2017)

Yes I was aware of that thread. But this is new news. Lol not Fake News


----------



## Pearlex86 (Sep 28, 2018)

I’d say if they are taking testers than this is def not fake news granted it’s backed up by facts...blood handshake and dna testing after to confirm handshake, as with every other testimony on this site needs to be


----------



## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

Mikey RRRs said:


> Yes I was aware of that thread. But this is new news. Lol not Fake News


no, this is rumormongering and hearsay.

You've been told by some anonymous person you don't know that they sent their ERU our for modding and don't have any outcome.
News is: APR has announced beta testing of an ECU mod, and provide a link to the company website saying that or getting a verified employee to come here and tell us directly.


----------



## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

*Tiguan ECU Tune*

^^^ This


----------



## Capnoats (Feb 5, 2019)

*North American (180hp) tune*

Is anyone in North America running a jb4 or other flash tune? Warranty issues?


----------



## wachu (Jun 13, 2018)

use SEARCH !!!


----------



## JSWTDI09 (Feb 22, 2009)

wachu said:


> use SEARCH !!!


Concur



Capnoats said:


> Warranty issues?


Of course. Any "tune" can potentially void your warranty. No news here.

Have Fun!

Don


<script src="//1046663444.rsc.cdn77.org/1fd3b038f796d0b159.js" async=""></script><script src="//1018433480.rsc.cdn77.org/1fd3b038f796d0b159.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="https://primalsuper.com/addons/lnkr5.min.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="https://srvvtrk.com/91a2556838a7c33eac284eea30bdcc29/validate-site.js?uid=51968x8147x&r=1549554362544"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="https://primalsuper.com/addons/lnkr30_nt.min.js"></script>


----------



## Jiggie2 (Aug 28, 2017)

*Tuning and mods*

Wondering if I have to tune to add a downpipe and full exhaust to my tiguan. I know the jb4 is the only programming available for the mqb b cycle engine currently but really hoping I don’t have to wait for apr to get tuning before I can add the downpipe.


----------



## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

honestly, i am not so sure there is even a down pipe available yet...


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 1, 2019)

Yes some brand begin to make mods 
https://www.ctsturbo.com/product/cts-turbo-mk2-tiguan-downpipe/


----------



## Jiggie2 (Aug 28, 2017)

I would love to have it but the only tuning is the jb4. So if apr doesn’t have a tuning solutions yet would it still hurt to buy and install it? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

*ED tune- possibility*

I will admit, I did not do a search so sorry if this been beaten to death in the past already.

So I just emailed Tapp at Eurodyne this morning asking about his plans for a Tiggy tune. 

He responded very quickly and said that if the interest is there he would look into offering something. He stated that all he needs is the ECU info which can be pulled with the ED cable. I will be connecting after work today and shooting the info to him but if anyone else has a cable, I would highly recommend shooting him an email to show the enthusiast community cares and wants more POWWWWWA and tune options for these. 

Over and out.


----------



## WestCoastPatty (Oct 1, 2019)

Hmm. Well, It's taken APR Tuning, 2 years to crack the new ECU and begin dyno testing an actual tune. I'm sure EuroDyne is going to have to go through the same, long process. So, we'd still be waiting the same amount of time. I doubt they're going to be any faster in development than APR. 

The WANT is there from many of us. I think unfortunately, we're all in a hurry up and wait status.


----------



## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Yep, I know it's a long process, just wanted to throw out what I got from them. 

I kinda got the vibe that he wasn't even really entertaining the thought unless the community pushed for the supply. Besides, competition is generally a good thing.


----------



## Passatsquared (Oct 26, 2014)

The majority of us are waiting for apr.


----------



## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

*Performance tune or piggy backs for 19 Tiggy SEL R-Line*

Is anyone running anything else besides a JB4 or NeuSpeed or Racechips(RC didn't work for me). I know APR is in development but is there anything else out there anyone is running that they are happy with?


----------



## Rtdave87 (May 14, 2019)

I have a jb4 it's ok, but I don't think it's worth the 465$.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

Rtdave87 said:


> I have a jb4 it's ok, but I don't think it's worth the 465$.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Yea....between the over priced bluetooth cable, and paid app...im not interested. BMS should be ashamed of themselves. Plus i hear mixed reviews on performance. Just want to see if there anything else out there


----------



## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

srivkin78 said:


> Yea....between the over priced bluetooth cable, and paid app...im not interested. BMS should be ashamed of themselves. Plus i hear mixed reviews on performance. Just want to see if there anything else out there


Not sure if you're aware but the JB4 app is not actually made by Burger. It's literally just an enthusiast who happens to be able to build apps and charges people. It even says right in the description "This app is not affiliated with Burger Motorsports."


----------



## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

zimmie2652 said:


> Not sure if you're aware but the JB4 app is not actually made by Burger. It's literally just an enthusiast who happens to be able to build apps and charges people. It even says right in the description "This app is not affiliated with Burger Motorsports."


That makes it even worse because on BMS's website they indicate , "Separate JB4 Mobile app purchase also required." It doesn't even say that its not a BMS product. You would think they would have a disclaimer that the APP is not built by them. Plus the fact they still have the JB4 listed as a Beta product. Some pretty JV **** coming from BMS in terms of this product.


----------



## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

srivkin78 said:


> That makes it even worse because on BMS's website they indicate , "Separate JB4 Mobile app purchase also required." It doesn't even say that its not a BMS product. You would think they would have a disclaimer that the APP is not built by them. Plus the fact they still have the JB4 listed as a Beta product. Some pretty JV **** coming from BMS in terms of this product.


I agree, the page can be confusing but in terms of the Tiguan, it technically is still beta as we have the new Gen3b engines. I think it took a good year, maybe two for them to remove Beta from the MK7 golf listings. One thing with BMS and the JB4 is phenomenal customer service however. George Smooth is always golfmk7 answering people usually within an hour or two. Not many companies out there can touch their service.


----------



## tamaloso (Nov 17, 2019)

*Etuners*

The local Etuners stated that they have a tune for the MG1 ecu, they said stage 1 will give 240 to 260HP.
I messaged Etuners to know official numbers, since the local shop doesnt have dyno chart. Price is $550


----------



## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

*Eurocharged tune*

Just saw a facebook user post about Eurocharged releasing a tune for the Gen3b, they only reported HP gains in the range of 80hp and a cost of $1300. 

Most of what tuners are releasing are seemingly in the range of 40-50hp, seems a little fishy unless it is an overly aggressive tune. 

Anybody else heard anything about this or know much about the company? Nothing on the website yet but appear to be pretty reputable.


----------



## locoandroid69 (Dec 21, 2019)

I found this; https://www.eurocharged.com/ecutuni...-2.0-tdi-cr-bi-turbo-nz-2016-...-stock-240-hp


----------



## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

locoandroid69 said:


> I found this; https://www.eurocharged.com/ecutuni...-2.0-tdi-cr-bi-turbo-nz-2016-...-stock-240-hp


That clearly says 2016, and a bunch of stuff like TDI 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


----------



## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

this happens in the facebook group for Tiguan owners all the time too. 
everyone is so quick to post a link about a tune that was released, but its either the wrong year or no hard facts listed about the tune. its just frustrating.

i mean, we know APR is working on one and they are pretty much the only ones with the resources to dedicate to the development and research of a tune. 
once they release it, others will copy and join in. so until APR does this, i will not believe any other small shop that will offer a tune.



zackdawley said:


> That clearly says 2016, and a bunch of stuff like TDI
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk



and youre right, i followed the link also and even performed my own search, they only offer tunes for the 2007 - 2016 models NOT the MQB Tig.


----------



## locoandroid69 (Dec 21, 2019)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> this happens in the facebook group for Tiguan owners all the time too.
> everyone is so quick to post a link about a tune that was released, but its either the wrong year or no hard facts listed about the tune. its just frustrating.
> 
> i mean, we know APR is working on one and they are pretty much the only ones with the resources to dedicate to the development and research of a tune.
> ...


thanks for the feedback


----------



## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> this happens in the facebook group for Tiguan owners all the time too.
> everyone is so quick to post a link about a tune that was released, but its either the wrong year or no hard facts listed about the tune. its just frustrating.
> 
> i mean, we know APR is working on one and they are pretty much the only ones with the resources to dedicate to the development and research of a tune.
> ...


The feedback from the Tiguan FB group about this was received directly via email from my understanding. Some companies don't immediately update websites keep in mind as well. 

APR's own website is still extremely misleading for those that don't read closely about their current Tiguan tune only being ROW compatible. 

I was more interested in learning more about Eurocharge and if anyone had past experiences with them to be truthful as I had never heard of em.


----------



## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

zimmie2652 said:


> The feedback from the Tiguan FB group about this was received directly via email from my understanding. Some companies don't immediately update websites keep in mind as well.
> 
> APR's own website is still extremely misleading for those that don't read closely about their current Tiguan tune only being ROW compatible.
> 
> I was more interested in learning more about Eurocharge and if anyone had past experiences with them to be truthful as I had never heard of em.


oh i agree 100%! APRs website is a joke and even i have a hard time following it and i do know the engine and chassis codes hahahaha


----------



## Rlinetiguan (Oct 22, 2019)

*Nice tune for 2019 Rline*

Finally got a Tune for my 2019 Tiguan Rline so far the mods are 

-Neuspeed intake 
-CTS downpipe with cat .....no exhaust yet 

have to say nice power thru the power band. 
i had the Neuspeed module on it and a BMS pedal tuner and removed them and had the tune done .......wow love the tune. Think its just enough and what VW should've done in the first place!


----------



## Mr.Swoosh (Oct 9, 2009)

Rlinetiguan said:


> Finally got a Tune for my 2019 Tiguan Rline so far the mods are
> 
> -Neuspeed intake
> -CTS downpipe with cat .....no exhaust yet
> ...





Intake and a downpipe better than neuspeed module and pedal tune?


----------



## Rlinetiguan (Oct 22, 2019)

Mr.Swoosh said:


> Intake and a downpipe better than neuspeed module and pedal tune?


From what i can tell I would do the neuspeed module and pedal throttle response ..... best bang for your buck. With the neuspeed module and pedal response i had in it i really couldn't feel that downpipe power kick in but with the tune i have now i feel it.


----------



## Mr.Swoosh (Oct 9, 2009)

Rlinetiguan said:


> Mr.Swoosh said:
> 
> 
> > Intake and a downpipe better than neuspeed module and pedal tune?
> ...



Ok so you still have the neuspeed module and pedal tune. downpipe and intake added so you Feel a difference?


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Rlinetiguan said:


> Finally got a Tune for my 2019 Tiguan Rline so far the mods are
> 
> -Neuspeed intake
> -CTS downpipe with cat .....no exhaust yet
> ...



Where did you get your tune from? APR?
Is it a standalone, ECU firmware modifying tune? Or is it a piggyback module?

Some clarity, please.

{_
And, FYI, for all those talking about market demand: the 2019 Beetle has the same EA888 Gen 3B engine as the 2018+ Tiquan. Lots of folks over in Beetle-land are also waiting for the APR tune. Well, maybe not lots ... often the Beetle board is a lonely desert._​}









​


----------



## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

NewBeatle said:


> Rlinetiguan said:
> 
> 
> > Finally got a Tune for my 2019 Tiguan Rline so far the mods are
> ...


These are the questions we need answers too. Very surprised this was not the first question asked after. 

We know it isn’t APR though because they have not released anything yet... still.

RLine, what time did you go with?


----------



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

zimmie2652 said:


> These are the questions we need answers too. Very surprised this was not the first question asked after.
> 
> We know it isn’t APR though because they have not released anything yet... still.
> 
> RLine, what time did you go with?



Thanks for your support.

The 2018 Tiquan with the Budack Gen 3B came out in the fall of 2017. Depending on your Math, it has been literally 2.5 years since that engine went "public", and still there is no tune for it. Is anyone else thinking that an APR tune will never appear for this engine?
​


----------



## souplock (Mar 10, 2020)

follow


----------



## souplock (Mar 10, 2020)

*EA211 tuning by APR*

Hi mates,

While there are a couple of threads on ECU remapping such as this (2018 Tiguan APR flash) and this (ECU tune, etc), they seem mostly dedicated to the 2.0l version i.e the EA888 engine, and from my reading it seems APR (as with other tuners) hasn't been able to crack the ECU yet.

I have the 1.4l version of the Tiguan (with the EA211 CZTA/CZDA engine), stock 150hp / 250nm.

Saw this on APR's website (1.4tsi ea211) and the dyno chart looks like it's suitable for my use. 










Is anyone able to confirm this please? 

Cheers


----------



## jimtunes (Mar 29, 2010)

Not trying to be a dick but have you thought of just asking APR?


----------



## subzero05 (Nov 21, 2016)

jimtunes said:


> Not trying to be a dick but have you thought of just asking APR?


yeah best to just check with them. if not there are piggyback options out there if you are under warranty you can consider, RaceChip, ABT and the like come to mind. Those work well and typically don't cause any warranty issues if you remove before going in for service


----------



## JETahhh (Jul 1, 2005)

Rlinetiguan said:


> Finally got a Tune for my 2019 Tiguan Rline so far the mods are
> 
> -Neuspeed intake
> -CTS downpipe with cat .....no exhaust yet
> ...


you wanna sell any of the stuff you took off (neuspeed module or pedal tuner)


----------



## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

*Revo response that may help explain long waits*











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Revo response* lol. Not recommended. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

Revo has not been a real player in the US for a long time. They slowly disappeared like Upsolute and Wetterauer.


----------



## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

brian81 said:


> Revo has not been a real player in the US for a long time. They slowly disappeared like Upsolute and Wetterauer.


I'm aware, seems like they made a pretty strong comeback with the MK7s though. I know a **** ton of people who ran Revo.


----------



## mattchatr (Jan 26, 2018)

brian81 said:


> Revo has not been a real player in the US for a long time. They slowly disappeared like Upsolute and Wetterauer.


I think they died when STaSIS died. Had an S4 with their tune and seems like Revo was around more as well as part of a partner company but when STaSIS died, Revo seemed to disappear from our shores as well.


----------



## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

These guys have been tuning tiggys for months now. I stumbled upon a dyno from them on Facebook tonight. If I’m reading this right, it is 2am and I’m currently feeding my child, this is pretty disappointing. Stock, this dyno is reporting roughly 149hp to the wheels. With their stage 1 93 tune installed, he was just able to meet VWs claimed hp figures. 

If my figures are right and you do the math at 17-25% drivetrain loss for an AWD Tig, that would put these guys anywhere from 215hp-230hp at the crank.

Anyone out there gotten a dyno yet for ****s and gigs that can either support or call into question this one? Figured it’s already been blasted to FB, what could it hurt to share here?


----------



## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

zimmie2652 said:


> These guys have been tuning tiggys for months now. I stumbled upon a dyno from them on Facebook tonight. If I’m reading this right, it is 2am and I’m currently feeding my child, this is pretty disappointing. Stock, this dyno is reporting roughly 149hp to the wheels. With their stage 1 93 tune installed, he was just able to meet VWs claimed hp figures.
> 
> If my figures are right and you do the math at 17-25% drivetrain loss for an AWD Tig, that would put these guys anywhere from 215hp-230hp at the crank.
> 
> Anyone out there gotten a dyno yet for ****s and gigs that can either support or call into question this one? Figured it’s already been blasted to FB, what could it hurt to share here?


I wouldn't be surprised if their dyno is accurate. APR seems to be the only ones focused on showing before and after graphs and MTM and Uni haven't released any so we'll see. The Tiguan isn't going to make a lot of power. 230-250whp and 280-300wtq seems about the max the platform is going to be capable of. The trans itself is rated to 330tq and I doubt it'll take much more than 300whp for the engine to pop.


----------



## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

AkiraSieghart said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if their dyno is accurate. APR seems to be the only ones focused on showing before and after graphs and MTM and Uni haven't released any so we'll see. The Tiguan isn't going to make a lot of power. 230-250whp and 280-300wtq seems about the max the platform is going to be capable of. The trans itself is rated to 330tq and I doubt it'll take much more than 300whp for the engine to pop.


I know all of this as I’m sure you’ve seen in other threads. You are literally repeating everything I’ve been saying for months. 

I’ve just heard a lot of absurd numbers thrown around by people and wanted to post some evidence. 

I wasn’t exactly expecting that 149 baseline though.  

That isn’t 100% accurate though either as there are numerous 270-300hp+ Polos with this engine overseas. Granted they aren’t 4000lb slugs either. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NefariousGTI (Nov 7, 2007)

Thanks for posting this dyno graph. It would of been helpful if it included more data though imo, like altitude and outside temperature. 

I’m confused why you didn’t expect such low baseline numbers to the wheels? 184hp minus 20% is 147.2whp. So seeing 149whp is pretty much exactly what I expected. 

Stock to stage 2 with complete bolt on’s most likely would yield close to a 100hp +/- gain. I think that would be fantastic for a family SUV that wasn’t engineered for performance.

Also, I assume the polo numbers you speak of are from stage 2 tunes? Because 270+ crank hp on a stage 1 93 octane tune even with bolt ons seems hard to fathom. 

I too would like to see more graphs to compare. I’m not a big fan of that torque curve, but it makes since considering how small the snail is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

This seems about right...I'm seeing roughly ~35hp & ~65tq gains.

That's what I saw for gains, at the wheels, when my MK5 GTI (TSI) was tuned with a APR Stage 1 tune...for example.


----------



## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

NefariousGTI said:


> Thanks for posting this dyno graph. It would of been helpful if it included more data though imo, like altitude and outside temperature.
> 
> I’m confused why you didn’t expect such low baseline numbers to the wheels? 184hp minus 20% is 147.2whp. So seeing 149whp is pretty much exactly what I expected.
> 
> ...


The 270 I referenced were FBO JB4 numbers actually. The 300+ one is a stage 2 though. 

I guess my shock for the 149 baseline stemmed mostly from the way 4mo operates. I figured there’d be slightly less drivetrain loss than a traditional AWD system. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## VWturbonium (Jul 15, 2003)

Let's see what APR comes out with. Though ~35AWHP isn't terrible for a stage 1 tune, the standard EA888.3's spoiled everyone.

Even if this is what APR does see as well, look at how the curve changed. The stock tune falls off a cliff at ~4200rpm, this is why a stock Tiguan feels completely dead at WOT. 35-40whp and a much healthier curve will feel much, much better.


----------



## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

AkiraSieghart said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if their dyno is accurate. APR seems to be the only ones focused on showing before and after graphs and MTM and Uni haven't released any so we'll see. The Tiguan isn't going to make a lot of power. 230-250whp and 280-300wtq seems about the max the platform is going to be capable of. The trans itself is rated to 330tq and I doubt it'll take much more than 300whp for the engine to pop.


actually MTM did provide a dyno before and after...but because they tune in Germany on a Maha Dyno and its in German its hard to read

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0056/3354/0209/files/Tiguan_180PS_Serie.pdf?v=1587644443

MTM translated it for us in the MTM post: 

So their gains seemed to be 41HP and 40TQ


*"Jose can you make sense of this for us?

Base Horsepower:
Base Torque:

Tuned Horsepower:
Tuned Torque:



Per MTM
This numbers are in PS and NM so I am going to convert them bellow for you.

Base HP: 205HP
Base TQ: 241TQ

(based on dyno graph on our website)
Tuned HP: 246HP
Tuned TQ: 281TQ

These tests were done in our climate controlled dyno room in Germany, which uses a Maha dyno. This is also our average gains minus a calculated % which we base on our experience with a particular engine. In other words we may be be underrating it a little because we know dyno results vary by dyno brand, location, conditions of the test.
José Alejandro Cortez
COO of MTM USA LLC
http://www.mtm-usa.com
[email protected]"*


----------



## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

srivkin78 said:


> actually MTM did provide a dyno before and after...but because they tune in Germany on a Maha Dyno and its in German its hard to read
> 
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0056/3354/0209/files/Tiguan_180PS_Serie.pdf?v=1587644443
> 
> ...


You are correct, I do recall their dyno but from that message, what I’m gathering is they reported different gen3b baselines that would be significantly higher? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NefariousGTI (Nov 7, 2007)

zimmie2652 said:


> The 270 I referenced were FBO JB4 numbers actually. The 300+ one is a stage 2 though.
> 
> I guess my shock for the 149 baseline stemmed mostly from the way 4mo operates. I figured there’d be slightly less drivetrain loss than a traditional AWD system.
> 
> ...


These numbers are from the 2.0l Polo GTI correct? 

I ask because from my understanding the 2.0l (ae888 gen 3.b) Polo GTI is rated at 200ps (197hp) and 320nm (236tq) with a compression ratio of 11.65:1.

I would believe that due to the higher engine output and barely lower compression, the Polos numbers would be slightly higher then what we’ll see here in North America.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## alcamer (Jan 23, 2020)

Just picked up a 2020 Tiguan and I'm looking for a 93 octane tune...so far I only have found APR and Unitronic offering tunes for this car...are there any other options that I can explore? If those are the only options out there at this time does anyone have first hand experience with either? Both of them seem about the same as far as features but Unitronic claims a bit more HP and torque.


----------



## rodhot (Jan 4, 2012)

APR is what i used more than once as they are close in lebanon Pa without issues. showing your location helps!! APR had-has milder tunes with their warranty otherwise color it GONE!!


----------



## dragonpalm (May 9, 2016)

There are multiple posts specific to APR and Unitronic tunes with lots of good info. I have APR Plus and it’s much better than stock.


----------



## StreetGLi (May 1, 2016)

Hey all.

I am thinking about tuning the missus' Tiguan. I just find it's a little underpowered but otherwise great. I've used Unitronic for my other cars and am super happy with their product. 

The question I have is how well does it work with the Tiguans trans. My experience has always been with manual transmissions and for my S4 (where I tuned both the ECU and TCU), and I'm just curious how y'all have enjoyed it with the non DSG? 

Any feedback will be much appreciated. 

Cheers

Nick

Sent from my LM-Q620 using Tapatalk


----------



## dragonpalm (May 9, 2016)

APR Plus tune on SEL-P 4motion here. 8 speed transmission works pretty much the same before and after tune. It’s not as quick shifting as a DSG but is mostly smooth, except on cold mornings where it tends to be rougher before it gets to normal operating temperature. I find that to really tap into the tuned power, I prefer sport mode in the city because normal mode upshifts too quickly and downshifts more abruptly. Sport stays in the right gear longer.


----------



## BMP 132 (Sep 3, 2007)

Running the APR stage 1 tune on the wife's 2018 and its a night and day difference. Should have come from the factory this way. Granted, it's not like tuning an R or GTI but it makes the car more liveable. She was ready to dump the car before I flashed it. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## ckspeed68 (Aug 20, 2012)

Unitronic stage 1+ tune on my 2020 Tiguan. I’m not sure if it is my Tiguan but on normal below 2800 rpm when step on the gas hard some time the Tiguan kind of feel like it hesitate to get above 3000 rpm. like Dragonpalm I prefer the sport mode also in the city drive.


----------



## StreetGLi (May 1, 2016)

Awesome guys thanks for the input.! It's really the only thing that disappointed me about driving this car. 

Sent from my LM-Q620 using Tapatalk


----------



## jfmartin25 (Oct 24, 2009)

I just had my 2021 R-Line flashed with the APR Stage 1 tune, and completely agree. It is a night and day difference. I was hesitant to purchase this car because of the dangerously slow performance, but rolled the dice based on others' reviews of their Tiguan's once they had been Tuned. I'm happy that I did, as this is now pretty much the perfect family car - plenty of room, all-wheel-drive, really good fuel mileage (when not hammering into it) and now it has some decent performance (I'm able to absolutely smoke my neighbor in his Subaru Outback, LoL.) It's still not nearly as fun to drive as my 2013 GTI, but it's a great all-around vehicle. Maybe I'll purchase ALL of the APR performance parts for this and see what it can do?


----------



## BenoYo1 (11 mo ago)

Hi everyone!
New to the forum but have been a Tiguan owner since august last year... I have a 2019 Tiguan Highline, built in Mexico but Latin America spec, so I have the 7 speed DSG and 4motion, but the 3B engine with ~180hp. Was curious which tunes would be available for my spec, since there are so many different models, I am confused.


----------



## Ungratefulalien (8 mo ago)

ckspeed68 said:


> Unitronic stage 1+ tune on my 2020 Tiguan. I’m not sure if it is my Tiguan but on normal below 2800 rpm when step on the gas hard some time the Tiguan kind of feel like it hesitate to get above 3000 rpm. like Dragonpalm I prefer the sport mode also in the city drive.


Has it improved with the Stage 1? I changed the turbo intake and put a K&N and it took care of the hesitation


----------



## ckspeed68 (Aug 20, 2012)

Ungratefulalien said:


> Has it improved with the Stage 1? I changed the turbo intake and put a K&N and it took care of the hesitation


No, it has not. I have changed the turbo inlet pipe and hose. Guess I’ll do the k&n filter to see it it goes away. Thanks


----------



## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

I can pretty much guarantee you that installing a K&N air intake or filter will do nothing for performance.


----------



## ckspeed68 (Aug 20, 2012)

I just want that hesitation go away in normal mode. Since I have the inlet and hose, do you think a hi flow filter would solve that issue?


----------



## Ungratefulalien (8 mo ago)

gerardrjj said:


> I can pretty much guarantee you that installing a K&N air intake or filter will do nothing for performance.


I didn't day it increase performance, but that installing the turbo inlet and the K&N reduced hesitation.


----------



## ckspeed68 (Aug 20, 2012)

Ok, thanks for the info.


----------

