# VTDA or Neuspeed P-Flow?



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Which one? I like the ModShack VTDA, but I can get a cheap Neuspeed P-Flow. Also, which is louder? Thanks!


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## Phrost (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: VTDA or Neuspeed P-Flow? (l88m22vette)*

No idea which is actually better, and I haven't heard both to compare them.
I have the P-Flow and it is pretty loud, especially since I'm chipped. Turbo spool under WOT is loud and sounds like it's coming through the vents, and the WHOOSH of the diverter valve is damn loud since it's such an open filter.
Both are good, but majority recommend the VTDA because I don't know why. Either are good


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## Murderface (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: VTDA or Neuspeed P-Flow? (Phrost)*

Neither makes much of any performance difference...just get a dry element cone filter and you'll be good.


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## actorlany (Jan 10, 2005)

CHECK OUT THE TESTS...
http://www.wak-tt.com/mods/ind...s.htm


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (actorlany)*

Sweet http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I think I'm gonna go VTDA, because that'll go well with a MOFO, and the combo has to flow better then the P-Flow. Thanks for the input, and I'll post pics whenever the hell I get it (bday next month, fingers crossed)


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## Krissrock (Sep 10, 2005)

dude...did you look at the link...the P-FLow is better, and moves much more air..and it sounds just like the guy stated, loud spool sound and blow off...and you can still get the MOFO with it...Go with the P-Flow dude


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## golfzex (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: (Krissrock)*

its not just how much air, its also what temp the air is.

look at the tests done as far as temp goes and ull see the very small volume diff is nothing compared to the diff in temp from the P-Flow to the Modshack.


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## Phrost (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: (golfzex)*

Do you really think a few degrees air temperature in the intake is going to matter, when it's going straight into your red hot turbo?
Both are high performance intakes and do the same thing. If I was you, I would get whichever one you can get cheaper.


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## Krissrock (Sep 10, 2005)

true, temp will not matter too much...plus if you chip, you want whichever one will flow better to allow all the air coming in...Go P-Flow


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (Krissrock)*

I actually got an e-mail from Steve about this...here is what he wrote:
On the UK tests, you can ignore HP and Torque numbers. They are calculated,
not measured and are highly inaccurate when measured with a VAG on a chipped
car. About the only valid data is the G/sec air flow. The P-flow does flow
more at high RPM's at the expense of heat so most of the small gains there
are potentially lost. Read the Temp tests here:
http://forums.audiworld.com/tt/msgs/1574191.phtml Most of your driving is
"Below the curve" and the VTDA shines there hence the comment of Best all
around .
On heat, some say it doesn't matter. 6.5 years with this car and lots of
experimenting, I say it does. No matter that it's going through a Hot
turbo, cooler air is denser and more compressible so you'll ultimately get
more of it.
Noise: have you ever run an open element filter? You may not like it. Few
do in the long run.
I've had lots of guys that have moved from the P-Flow to the VTDA and have
been very happy with the change.
Let me know when you make the decision. 350 others all around the world
can't be wrong!
Steve
The only reason I even was debating this was due to the fact there was a P-Flow on eBay for like $80, but that auction is long gone. As cheap as that was, I don't want a loud-ass intake, but a more mature/classy sound (which is why I bought a BlueFlame). I also definetly agree with Steve about the cooler air going into the engine, and also with the better flow in the middle of the powerband. All in all, I think the VTDA + MOFO + Forge TIP will be sweet. I'll post my thoughts whenever the hell I finally get my intake taken care of...


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## Krissrock (Sep 10, 2005)

not bash steve at all, but I think i'd rather have the product developed and tested by the reputable company than some home made stuff....again, not bashing steve, I do believe he knows his stuff...
The P-Flow so to say isn't loud...but it definitely allows you to hear the turbo spool and DV better than anythiing i've heard before...


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## danchef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (Krissrock)*

Man he does have a reputable company it is called Modshack. He got his start just like any other company. He has done his homework and his product is great. I just put mine on and it sounds very cool. To be honest, that is a bout all it is going to do Steve is also a great guy who took the time to answer all of my annoying questions before I bought my ride. My local tuning shop (who could have easily convinced me to get a CAI) actually recommend the stock airbox because they only want me to spend money on stuff that will gain the most for the dollars. Anyway, thanks Steve!

Dan


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## Krissrock (Sep 10, 2005)

like i said...i'm not hating on him at all. I think he's nice guy too. he's helped me out in the past as well. I plan on buying one of his products...All due respect and credit to him...but he's not Neuspeed who's been developing VW products since 1981. I'm not trying to discredit his product, just state my opinion as to why I feel the P-Flow would be a better choice between the two....


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## conman4287 (Nov 21, 2006)

*Re: (danchef)*

so is the modshack intake just like a cold air intake? will it hydrolock the engine?


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (conman4287)*

ModShack has the TTDA and VTDA, with the TTDA using two hoses for a sealed cold air intake. The VTDA has extra insulation, and feeds from both the cold air inlets in the engine bay and the engine bay air itself. The TTDA is better IF you have a FMIC b/c the SMIC doesnt get in the way. I plan on eventually a FMIC or upgraded SMICs, but for now just want a better intake. The only worry of hydrolock is with the TTDA, and thats really only if you put the air feeds really low, or in the drivers side SMIC position.


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## Murderface (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: (conman4287)*

No, it doesn't sit low like a CAI making it not susceptible to hydrolock.


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## Phrost (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

Again, it's only an intake so you will yield minimal gains with whatever you choose.
I honestly can't compare the sound of the two, but I guess the P-flow is louder. When people put the VTDA on, they like how cool it sounds since you can actually hear the turbo... so why not have an open element filter to make that cool sound even louder? Yeah some people don't want a really loud PSSHH sound, only a little... but I've been running my P-flow for over 2 years and I've never considered taking it off.
Everyone who I've given rides to like the sound of the intake/turbo and ask about it. Either way, it's only really noticeable at WOT, the turbo spool isn't that loud at all under normal driving conditions.
So again, I stick with my advice to just buy whichever one you can get cheaper... unless you want the loudest turbo possible, then P-flow.


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## cdougyfresh (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (Phrost)*

I had a p-flo on my jetta and really liked it, perfect fit and easy install. Might have to go for it on the TT http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Phrost (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: (cdougyfresh)*

Here's a video of my P-flow. You can hear the turbo spoolin (I boost at 30psi) and my exhaust shooting a few flames out like 20 feet yo
http://www.i74/photobucket/phrost/AudiTTflames.avi 


_Modified by Phrost at 9:19 PM 9-20-2007_


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (Phrost)*

FYI, that link is a POS and takes you to some video and tweaks your browser. IF you do click, be ready to use ctr+alt+delete http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Krissrock (Sep 10, 2005)

ha ha... that was kinda funny!! got me too. I shoulda read your post vette


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## danchef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (Krissrock)*

my vtda sounds louder for sure. Thats about all it does. I got mine used and at a good price which is why I got it. And I guess it looks pretty cool too


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## Phrost (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: (danchef)*

I'm sorry, I was really bored








jk, I lol'd


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## IM VR6in (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: (Phrost)*

so if you bought a pflow, is there anything else that is req. when u buy it? 

id like to know this too.. i just got my tt. apr 93 is going in tom, and i just want my turbo to be super loud, and to be able to hear my forge dv better... which will make me happier?


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## Phrost (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: (IM VR6in)*

If you buy the P-flow, everything comes with it - adapter, clamps, filter, heat shield, sticker proving it's street legal.
Both will make your turbo and dv loud. Get whichever is cheaper for you, or if you think one looks significantly better


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## IM VR6in (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: (TREFTTY)*

does anybody have a sound clip? i wanna HEAR vtda vs pflow.. i think that will clear a lot up and help ppl decide which they like better... 
i think most of the ppl buy this mod for the sound, we all know they dont do much performance at all.
SOUND CLIPS!. pref chipped


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## Phrost (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: (IM VR6in)*

I don't know if that will be possible...
Both will sound very similar, and you'd have to have the same camera in the same position with the same exhaust and the windows in the same position going the same speed. That is, if you want to accurately compare the two equally with no bias


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (Phrost)*

I'm going VTDA. Hooray! When I have money...


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## invncble (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

Don't forget the Evoms. IMO, the best of both worlds.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (invncble)*

I've heard the MS is really loud. Real quick: is the TTDA or VTDA louder?


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## DurTTy (Aug 14, 2007)

i have VTDA, and it does help out ... most gains are seen at the top end. if you like highway driving and/or do lapping then this is good for you. Pflow... no thanks, i dont feel like overpaying for a "name" 
Loudness: well i have just a K&N filter by itself, yes i head the DV go off, yes i heard some spool.. once i got VTDA (insulated) it more than doubled in sound for the intake noise.. DV noise not much difference. 
performance: consider the following : high ambient air temp = pwr loss. the cooler the air getting in the more potential power you can gain. hmm does IC lower cahrge air temp? woudl lower intake temp also help???? something to think about
aloso .. looks very stock .. i got the flat black version to match trim.. and 3rdly .. if you really want to, you can always fab up a devider like the pflo system.. nothing special IMO


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## darrenbyrnes (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: (DurTTy)*

What do ou think about THIS P-Flo system??


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## Krissrock (Sep 10, 2005)

*Re: (darrenbyrnes)*

exact same thing...maybe different filter type...that's all


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## darrenbyrnes (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: (Krissrock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krissrock* »_exact same thing...maybe different filter type...that's all

And it's a bit less expensive than that Neuspeed...


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: VTDA or Neuspeed P-Flow? (l88m22vette)*

Just got this info from cincyTT...its a post on AW about how people are taking off the VTDA cover and getting gains (ie, the VTDA being the same as an open-element cone filter) 
http://www.audiforums.com/m_667157/tm.htm
Definetly interesting...


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: VTDA or Neuspeed P-Flow? (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_Just got this info from cincyTT...its a post on AW about how people are taking off the VTDA cover and getting gains (ie, the VTDA being the same as an open-element cone filter) 
http://www.audiforums.com/m_667157/tm.htm
Definetly interesting...

just removing the insluation and the cone thing screwed onto the filter, you will see a noticible difference (you loose the subtle rumble though)


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: VTDA or Neuspeed P-Flow? (VWdriver03)*

Yea, but I may as well just buy a cone filter if I'm going to remove the insulation. Man, I _want_ a VTDA, but could totally spend the money elsewhere...


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## stjacket (Apr 26, 2007)

*Re: VTDA or Neuspeed P-Flow? (l88m22vette)*

make your own, its not as hard as you would think, spend the 150 somewheres else.


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## 180hpto310hp (Dec 15, 2006)

*Re: VTDA or Neuspeed P-Flow? (l88m22vette)*

Having 3 different intake systems I think the best so far is VTDA from Steve. Neuspeed does come with a heat shield, but if you run an air feed to the VTDA it helps alot. I have an upgraded TIP, MOFO, VTDA and 4 Bar with my car chipped and I noticed a difference easy.


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## euroluv69 (Dec 6, 2006)

*Re: (invncble)*


_Quote, originally posted by *invncble* »_Don't forget the Evoms. IMO, the best of both worlds.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif had it on my car for about a yr now http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (euroluv69)*

Thing is, I've heard the EvoMS is way loud. I don't want loud, but want a good sound. Everything I've heard is that the VTDA definetly sounds the best w/o being ***** loud


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

Honestly, seriously, no joke, believe it or not, the fact of the matter is... 
-if you want that nice sound and don't mind a little drop in performance, get the VTDA.
-if you don't mind the sometimes annoying sucking/whistling soung, get ant kind of open element filter.
two things to remember!
RULE #1- heat doesn't matter to the filter, the turbo is going to bake the air anyway. (think of it this way, would there be any reason to spend time washing your car if later that day your planning to go offroading in the rain).
RULE#2- turbo cars need air flow, and plenty of it. putting your air filter inside a can, your not making the turbo's job very easy.


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## euroluv69 (Dec 6, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_Thing is, I've heard the EvoMS is way loud. I don't want loud, but want a good sound. Everything I've heard is that the VTDA definetly sounds the best w/o being ***** loud

i'll see if i can get a clip up. its not really loud when just crusing around and such but if u floor it u'll hear it


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## liTTo (Jun 25, 2007)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

i've had my VTDA for over a year now and i love it! got it to replace the Injen cai because the streets flood very easily where i'm at. i got two silicone reducers and actually used the silicone s bend from the Injen intake to piece together a cold air feed from the front left bumper so two areas would supply air to the filter. i know a turbo needs plenty of air, and i'm no genius but i would rather have insulation or some type of heat shield with air feeds to the filter rather than open-element filter sitting in a extremely hot turbo engine bay. i don't see how any gains can be achieved with that.


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: (liTTo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liTTo* »_i've had my VTDA for over a year now and i love it! got it to replace the Injen cai because the streets flood very easily where i'm at. i got two silicone reducers and actually used the silicone s bend from the Injen intake to piece together a cold air feed from the front left bumper so two areas would supply air to the filter. i know a turbo needs plenty of air, and i'm no genius but i would rather have insulation or some type of heat shield with air feeds to the filter rather than open-element filter sitting in a extremely hot turbo engine bay. i don't see how any gains can be achieved with that.

because like I said, you are washing your car before you go offroading







... cooler air only matters AFTER the turbo. thats what a aftercooler if for (everyone calls them intercoolers)


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## Corrado SLC NL (May 3, 2005)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_Thing is, I've heard the EvoMS is way loud. I don't want loud, but want a good sound. 

Anyone have a link to where I can find one???


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## Corrado SLC NL (May 3, 2005)

*Re: (Corrado SLC NL)*

nevermind I found it but $300


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## stjacket (Apr 26, 2007)

*Re: (Corrado SLC NL)*

The thing that you have to remember is air filter flow loss, ie anything that covers or restrcits air flow will cause the turbo to work harder to produce the same amount boost, and the harder it works the more heat is created. most air filters have a loss of about 2-3 inchs of vacum under max load. this is about the most ideal loss. if your filter is dirty or restricted you would have a higher flow loss. but here is the kicker, 

(air filter flow loss= 30 in.hg / 30 in.hg- "loss through filter" 3= 1.1111
-1 = ***(11%)**** flow loss through the filter.
*30 in.hg is the standard barometric pressure*
So if you already have a 11% loss through a filter, then add a shroud and two small feed holes for some slightly cooler air, then you could expect at least 5 to 8 inchs of vacum behind the filter. That would be about 20% to 36% flow loss to do a VTDA style intake.
Any cold air that was gained by doing this will be cancled aby the increase of flow restriction and will in the end add high temps and make the turbo run less effient.
but if style and sound is more important to you, then it doesn't really matter.


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: (stjacket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stjacket* »_The thing that you have to remember is air filter flow loss, ie anything that covers or restrcits air flow will cause the turbo to work harder to produce the same amount boost, and the harder it works the more heat is created. most air filters have a loss of about 2-3 inchs of vacum under max load. this is about the most ideal loss. if your filter is dirty or restricted you would have a higher flow loss. but here is the kicker, 

(air filter flow loss= 30 in.hg / 30 in.hg- "loss through filter" 3= 1.1111
-1 = ***(11%)**** flow loss through the filter.
*30 in.hg is the standard barometric pressure*
So if you already have a 11% loss through a filter, then add a shroud and two small feed holes for some slightly cooler air, then you could expect at least 5 to 8 inchs of vacum behind the filter. That would be about 20% to 36% flow loss to do a VTDA style intake.
Any cold air that was gained by doing this will be cancled aby the increase of flow restriction and will in the end add high temps and make the turbo run less effient.
but if style and sound is more important to you, then it doesn't really matter.









glad to see someone is on the right page http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## stjacket (Apr 26, 2007)

*Re: (VWdriver03)*

check out the thread i just started,


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## Krissrock (Sep 10, 2005)

*Re: (stjacket)*

Funny when I was saying that P-Flow style intakes were better at the beginning... i was such the bad guy


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (Krissrock)*

Ok, here is my final thought: I am getting a VTDA, and will pull off the cover in the summer/when I want more sound. I like that it is quieter, and more covert, when driving to school or just when I don't want a loud-ass car. This post is done, stick a fork in it


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## stjacket (Apr 26, 2007)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

make your own vtda, and just put a sock over it to make it like the real one. or make your own for $50.00 that works much better!


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## XXX 1.8T (Aug 10, 2002)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_Ok, here is my final thought: I am getting a VTDA, and will pull off the cover in the summer/when I want more sound. I like that it is quieter, and more covert, when driving to school or just when I don't want a loud-ass car. This post is done, stick a fork in it









which cover will you pull off?


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## TREFTTY (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: ( XXX 1.8T)*

He is talking about the cover on the VTDA that covers the element. The one that has the finish of your choice and says "Modshack TTuned" on it.


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## XXX 1.8T (Aug 10, 2002)

*Re: (TREFTTY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREFTTY* »_He is talking about the cover on the VTDA that covers the element. The one that has the finish of your choice and says "Modshack TTuned" on it. 

but then there is nothing holding the element in place and the 2 feeder pipes?
If someone has done this please post some pics!


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