# Flash Update TTRS all-wheel drive system



## Optimus812 (May 5, 2012)

Went in for service this morning and was notified of this update. See attached.










Going to get it done today. Anyone else get it flashed? 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

Question about updates like this. When you have a tune is there risk of it being overwritten by the update? I have my 5k coming up so I'll probably get the same notice.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

So 894 TTRSs made it into the US, I was wondering what the final production number was.


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

i'd like to know if there is any way to find out what # your car is out of that 894.


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

LynxFX said:


> Question about updates like this. When you have a tune is there risk of it being overwritten by the update? I have my 5k coming up so I'll probably get the same notice.


 probably, but this is a new update so i don't think there is much info out there on it. also, looks like this is an update to the haldex software only so yea, interesting. :sly: 

my understanding of the haldex controller is that the amount of torque transferred is a function of the mechanical components inside the controller, not the electronics. but of course, i could be 100% wrong.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

And is this a flash applied to the main engine ECU or to the haldex controller?


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## derek8819 (Jan 29, 2013)

BMW had an "update" like this for the 135s that actually detuned the cars to make the turbos last longer. I'm always weary of these, I'd doubt they're making it perform better, I would assume its the opposite to make something safer for them.


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

derek8819 said:


> BMW had an "update" like this for the 135s that actually detuned the cars to make the turbos last longer. I'm always weary of these, I'd doubt they're making it perform better, I would assume its the opposite to make something safer for them.


 great point. maybe it's some new encryption for the ecu, never know. 

you first


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

Hopefully HPA can comment on this update?


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## Williamttrs (Mar 29, 2013)

That document has all sorts of gems in it. I will probably be getting my 5K change next week. Since my car is going to be reflashed anyway, I might just let the dealer apply the new software just to see what it does. 

Any thoughts?


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Mine was in having the updated brake kit fitted yesterday,so the new gearbox/haldex software was also done. 
Modifications to the launch control and the haldex have been made,due to too many propshaft failures. 
As far as I know the software does not interfere with the engine management,but they did ask if any gearbox haldex mods had been done, so the update could have problems if any have modded the Stronic software or Haldex.


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

Was the dealer concerned about ECU tuning? UM just shipped my ECU back to me with a Stage 2 tune...


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## derek8819 (Jan 29, 2013)

jaybyme said:


> Modifications to the launch control and the haldex have been made,due to too many propshaft failures.QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Figures.....
> ...


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

Check this out! carl 
http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=328800&p=2570584#p2570584


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

carl44 said:


> Check this out! carl
> http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=328800&p=2570584#p2570584


 Sounds like they disabled something related to launch control on the Euro S-tronic cars. But what about the US manuals?


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

Marty said:


> Sounds like they disabled something related to launch control on the Euro S-tronic cars. But what about the US manuals?


 

jamiekip wrote:So when you say it doesn't work in sport and off... Does it leave you to control revs and drop clutch when you want to?? If so for manuals I'd argue that's designed in for real drivers  



Before this ******* update it worked in sport and off-modes, but now it doesn't. The launch control keep revs in 4000rpm even you putt the gas pedal to bottom. And you have to control the clutch, of course because it's manual. But it helps you to get the best start. I had (before TT RS +) Audi RS3 S-Tronic and there was also the launch control. Before that I had Lancer Evolution IX and also the launch control. And that was 6-speed manual like my TT RS now.


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

carl44 said:


> jamiekip wrote:So when you say it doesn't work in sport and off... Does it leave you to control revs and drop clutch when you want to?? If so for manuals I'd argue that's designed in for real drivers
> 
> 
> 
> Before this ******* update it worked in sport and off-modes, but now it doesn't. The launch control keep revs in 4000rpm even you putt the gas pedal to bottom. And you have to control the clutch, of course because it's manual. But it helps you to get the best start. I had (before TT RS +) Audi RS3 S-Tronic and there was also the launch control. Before that I had Lancer Evolution IX and also the launch control. And that was 6-speed manual like my TT RS now.


 that guy seems a bit confused. not sure if he had someone tune the thing to have lc and now it doesn't work in sport but i can guaranty that the u.s. version of the evo ix doesn't have lc stock because i still own one. maybe cars are coming with this in whatever country he's in but not the u.s. and i'm sure it would have been talked about plenty on the forums. 

also i know my rs has reved over 4k off the line. 
hell i would think at 4k it would bog like no one's business anyway if you just dumped the clutch. too low on an awd car to get it off the line quickly


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

So, it seems there are only 2 people who have this update: 
1) jaybyme (TT RS automatic) -->Did you tried any launch ? If yes, what is the before & after? Do you still have the esp in sport mode? Do you feel the haldex is engaging later so that the driveshaft would be protected? Do you have the same launch rpm as before? ... 

2) Audi TT RS plus (TT RS manual) - he has a user on ttforum.co.uk. 
Can anyone ask him some details about the launch rpm limitation? How does it launch compared to before? Does he have will spin? Is the esp cutting the acceleration if the wheels are spinning? If the esp is off what happens with the rpm limiter? ... 


It looks to me that we are just moving in circle and making assumptions without asking those who did the upgrade the proper questions!


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

You can never get more than 50% to the rear with the haldex because the front wheels are driven directly from the trans. There is no center diff . The only time the rear can get more is if the fronts are spinning but there still engaged . So if there changing the program on the haldex there's two choices. Lock the rear quicker or slower . The haldex has a set of clutches that are controlled by a CM. they could have them not fully lock up on a hard launch. That would give some front wheel spin and put less stress on the drive shaft. If they really are having failures with the driveshafts. I haven't seen anything . I really want to find out what it is before I take the car in. Carl


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6031177-Flash-Update-TTRS-all-wheel-drive-system


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

sounds like this update keeps the ESP on at all times when starting from standstill in manual and auto cars. ? just a guess.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

that means you cant launch or spin the wheels off the line, it will just bog down...


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

tdi-bart said:


> that means you cant launch or spin the wheels off the line, it will just bog down...


 i think the issue in the UK is their breaking the drive shaft joint on launch, i did find one post. you really cant get wheel spin with 4wd all the video ive seen is just a chirp. what they can do is reduce the torque to the rear on launch that would reduce the stress on the drive shaft. i really dont know what their trying to achieve. HPA comp controllers transfer torque faster i would think that would stress the haldex more .so if in fact if its a breakage issue you would think they would reduce the torque to the rear on a hard launch. At this point i dont think any body knows for sure what the deal is. carl


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

cipsony said:


> So, it seems there are only 2 people who have this update:
> 1) jaybyme (TT RS automatic) -->Did you tried any launch ? If yes, what is the before & after? Do you still have the esp in sport mode? Do you feel the haldex is engaging later so that the driveshaft would be protected? Do you have the same launch rpm as before? ...


 I will see if I get a chance to do a couple of launches today, and report back. 
Mind you,if it's like described by the manual owner,then you will be able to see the difference even before it launches ? 
Still some debate on the forum as to whether the manual even has LC ?


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

Ahh... I think I figured out the manual with launch control mystery! Most modern VAG cars will limit rev's when sitting still to 4000RPM unless you disable TC/ESC. I bet if you hold the throttle to the floor in normal, non-sport mode it will sit at 4k RPM all day long. (I would check, but my TT-RS is up on jack stands in the garage, waiting on the ECU to get back from UM.)


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Even in the Stronic .it will sit in N at 4000 rpm and won't let you rev it above that. 
Done a few launch starts with mine today,and everything seems pretty much the same. 
Still quick


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

So Myth busted with the DSG  
The car behaves the same or at least the change is so minor that one can't feel any difference.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I think it's just a Haldex software update for power distribution. 
The new brakes seem to work well,done a bit of high speed braking on the autobahns today,and they were really good. 
Even had some fun with a Bentley conti GT,which was nice.


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

carl44 said:


> you really cant get wheel spin with 4wd


 Big negative there... 

From personal experience, dropping the clutch at the right point will most definitely spin both ends without a problem..


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## Optimus812 (May 5, 2012)

jaybyme said:


> Even in the Stronic .it will sit in N at 4000 rpm and won't let you rev it above that.
> Done a few launch starts with mine today,and everything seems pretty much the same.
> Still quick


 Agree, the tune is still there and pulls just as hard as before. Haven't done a full launch but with traction control on or off, the car still acts the same; it does seem to handle better coming out of a turn and punching it.


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

Optimus812 said:


> Agree, the tune is still there and pulls just as hard as before. Haven't done a full launch but with traction control on or off, the car still acts the same; it does seem to handle better coming out of a turn and punching it.


 Can you post comtroler #22 vagcom that will have the software number ill dig mine up and post to compair. Thanks carl


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I might of had more front wheel spin before power shifted to the rear,but it's impossible to really tell,as everything happens so quickly. 
I haven't any 0-60 times for the car as it was before,so I can't compare, even if I did have a Vbox or something similar. 
I'm actually very happy with my car at the moment. 
For the first time in nearly two years,I haven't really got anything to moan about,except for squeaky sports seats.But that's a minor irritation,compared to all the other problems I've had. 
The car goes in for it's compulsory 2yr service next week,so they can have a look at the seats. 
Then I should be able to fit in a few trips to the Hockenheimring and the Nürburgring.


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

carl44 said:


> Can you post controller #22 vagcom that will have the software number ill dig mine up and post to compare. Thanks carl


 Stock software 2013 TTRS. anybody run a scan on the update to 
see what they have changed? 

Address 22: AWD Labels: Redir Fail! 
Part No SW: 2K0 907 554 C HW: 2K0 907 554 C 
Component: Haldex 4Motion 5008 
Coding: 0000005 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000 
VCID: 2E53D10BB98BD068830 

No fault code found.


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## rlab (Nov 5, 2012)

smack_ttrs said:


> that guy seems a bit confused. not sure if he had someone tune the thing to have lc and now it doesn't work in sport but i can guaranty that the u.s. version of the evo ix doesn't have lc stock because i still own one. maybe cars are coming with this in whatever country he's in but not the u.s. and i'm sure it would have been talked about plenty on the forums.


 Sean? Every year except for 2003 had LC on the Evo in the USA.


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## Quisp (Mar 18, 2012)

I too am a little bit wary of Manufacturers bearing software updates from the BMW days.

Does the US manual TT RS have a "launch control" because i can rev mine past 4000 sitting still. I have never tried dumping the clutch and was uinder the impression it is not the best thing to do for a car.
From what I have read about people breaking shafts it would not surprise me if the software is going to reduce the stress on the shaft by changing the amount of power tha goes to the rear and to the front so Audi isnt giving everyone the shaft.:laugh: Well, not for free, I am sure they have many other ways of giving owners the shaft.
The fact that they are not notifying the owners of the cars directly and have chosen to do it behind the scenes is the part thaat makes me wonder and wary. If it were something they were upfront about thenn i would be less suspicious. This is the way BMW started thaty whole cluster fu*k, doing software updates without the owners knowing about them.

One thing i noticed looking over my logs is the VCID numbers changed at one point around January. Is that something that would change because of the date (new year) or ?
I also see that other poeple get the Redir Fail! message in there. I wonder if the uodate will change that.


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## eggeegg (May 7, 2013)

Quisp said:


> Does the US manual TT RS have a "launch control" because i can rev mine past 4000 sitting still. I have never tried dumping the clutch and was under the impression it is not the best thing to do for a car.


 I _cannot_ rev past 4k RPM from stand still on my US manual. I don't know if it's specifically intended for launch control or what. I've done 4 or 5 launches by dumping the clutch at about 3.5k just to experience it (no feeling quite like it). But I don't have a need to do any more launches any time soon. Europe's TT-RS promotes its launch control features so I'm assuming the shaft should be able to handle some launches. 

According to your profile, you have a Stasis tune? Is it possible the tune removed your 4k stand still limit?


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## eggeegg (May 7, 2013)

Also, I'm taking my car into the dealership tomorrow to have the front pads replaced. I'm curious to see whether or not they mention the flash update. This dealership played ignorant to a solution for the brake squeal for the past couple months but Maria from Audi care took care of everything.


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

rlab said:


> Sean? Every year except for 2003 had LC on the Evo in the USA.


 lol looks like i'm the confused one. i guess i've never matted the car from a standstill then. just reved and caught it on the way up on the rare occasion that i actually tried to launch the car. 

thanks for clarifying. now i'll have to see what the tt does on my way home from work tonight. 

sorry about the misinformation guys


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

i still want to know what exactly the update is? Does anybody really know? thanks carl


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

carl44 said:


> i still want to know what exactly the update is? Does anybody really know? thanks carl


 I went to my dealer and read the full service bulletin they are installing new software in the haldex. 

The new # is SW:2KD 907 554 D component 5010 

below is mine you can see its a C and 5008 

I'm waiting to see really what function they are changing . my gut is their reducing the rear torque on a hard launch to reduce stress on the rubber drive shaft coupler that has been known to fail. 
just a theory.. carl 


Address 22: AWD Labels: Redir Fail! 
Part No SW: 2K0 907 554 C HW: 2K0 907 554 C 
Component: Haldex 4Motion 5008 
Coding: 0000005 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000 
VCID: 2E53D10BB98BD068830 

No fault code found.


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## Quisp (Mar 18, 2012)

I agree with carl's theory on the update. Seems to make sense. I dont think they would do it if it wasnt something that would save them money and headaches down the line and if they are having problems with that then it seems like a logical guess.

I dont know if stasis would do that but i will check with them.
My dealership did the same thing about the brakes but what really sucked as that they played ingnorant AFTER they had already done someone elses car. 
So playing ignorant=lying through thier teeth

Maria took care of the brakes forme also


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

Quisp said:


> I agree with carl's theory on the update. Seems to make sense. I dont think they would do it if it wasnt something that would save them money and headaches down the line and if they are having problems with that then it seems like a logical guess.
> 
> I dont know if stasis would do that but i will check with them.
> My dealership did the same thing about the brakes but what really sucked as that they played ingnorant AFTER they had already done someone elses car.
> ...


 The flash is in the haldex controler it shouldn't affect the engine controler programming their totally separate . The haldex controler controles the clutch pack look up and the response time. You can test it with a vagcom go to #22 and run the output test. It's kind of cool you can hear the pump and engage and disengage the clutches . Carl


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

carl44 said:


> The flash is in the haldex controler it shouldn't affect the engine controler programming their totally separate . The haldex controler controles the clutch pack look up and the response time. You can test it with a vagcom go to #22 and run the output test. It's kind of cool you can hear the pump and engage and disengage the clutches . Carl


 so if someone had the hpa controller would this actually flash over the hpa code?


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

smack_ttrs said:


> so if someone had the hpa controller would this actually flash over the hpa code?


 Either that or it wouldn't communicate with it and show as a error. I haven't seen a scan of the HPA software but I'm sure the SN is different than the factory. Carl


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

jaybyme wrote:It's just a small modification of how the Haldex distributes power,it will be very hard to notice any differences 


Less or more to the rear on launch?? 
My gut is less = less prop shaft issues = less warranty expense for audi but what do i know..carl


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## eggeegg (May 7, 2013)

Got the flash update when I had the front pads replaced. Service guy straight up told me he didn't know what the flash was for. I'm just going to trust what most are saying on this thread. Launches feel the same.



eggeegg said:


> I _cannot_ rev past 4k RPM from stand still on my US manual.


This isn't completely true. When the car is in gear and clutch disengaged, I can rev past 4K rpm at a standstill. In neutral, I cannot.


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## fjork_duf (Jul 13, 2001)

eggeegg said:


> I _cannot_ rev past 4k RPM from stand still on my US manual. I don't know if it's specifically intended for launch control or what. I've done 4 or 5 launches by dumping the clutch at about 3.5k just to experience it (no feeling quite like it). But I don't have a need to do any more launches any time soon. Europe's TT-RS promotes its launch control features so I'm assuming the shaft should be able to handle some launches.
> 
> According to your profile, you have a Stasis tune? Is it possible the tune removed your 4k stand still limit?


??? Your US car pegs at 4k when at a standstill? Then that would mean we do have some sort of LC. I've never tried it honestly. I would expect that would be touted as a 'feature'

Do you have traction control off when this happens? Tell us more.


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## fjork_duf (Jul 13, 2001)

eggeegg said:


> Got the flash update when I had the front pads replaced. Service guy straight up told me he didn't know what the flash was for. I'm just going to trust what most are saying on this thread. Launches feel the same.
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't completely true. When the car is in gear and clutch disengaged, I can rev past 4K rpm at a standstill. In neutral, I cannot.


OH...


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

here's the story..carl

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i412/TondyTT/IMG_0002_zpsf1ca378a.jpg


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## eggeegg (May 7, 2013)

Thanks Carl. So less worrying about launches.


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

eggeegg said:


> Thanks Carl. So less worrying about launches.


your welcome.
its what i thought their cutting the torque to the rear on a hard launch to save the drive shaft joint. another clue was they are having the dealers do it to CPO cars also. they would rather pay the dealer a hour of labor now then a haldex-driveshaft replacement down the road. carl


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## Audi RS3 (Apr 20, 2011)

smack_ttrs said:


> that guy seems a bit confused.


No I'm not confused about launch control. But regarding to this update I am. 
Now the launch control works only in ESP ON mode, not in SPORT or OFF mode like BEFORE THIS UPDATE.
Here in Finland ALL TT RS models have launch control and it works ESP OFF/SPORT-mode. My TT RS is NOT tuned because I have bought that in new. 
This launch control has nothing to do with this VAG cars rev limit when sitting still and gear is in neutral(N). That feature only protect the engine.
This launch control is same feature than Audi RS3 have even that is with S-Tronic. 
I did call to the local Audi and they promised to investigate this matter.
(sorry my bad english)


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

the manual doesn't have launch control

with esp on it revs to 4k if you drop the clutch and the wheels start to spin the car's esp kicks in and bogs you down, thats not launch control

to really launch well you need to rev past 5k (turn off esp) and dump it, you will get some proper wheel spin and it will take off like crazy

launch control on a manual is a stupid idea, that is the point of the clutch, some cars really do have LC on a manual like the camaro ss :screwy:


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## Optimus812 (May 5, 2012)

To me launch control with turbo anti lag is a great idea even with a manual. You can rev it to 4k or so, keeping it floored and building boost pressure. Dump the clutch for a crazy launch... probably breaking drive-train parts in the meantime  That would only be my concern considering how hard this car launches without any type of launch control.

Dave


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## HBspeed (Jan 25, 2012)

Anyone find out more details on how the affects the US version? Makes me scared to take my car in until difinitive info is known.


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

HBspeed said:


> Anyone find out more details on how the affects the US version? Makes me scared to take my car in until difinitive info is known.


 Wondering the same. I need to take my car in next week for the 5k service. Not sure if I should allow the update or not.


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## eggeegg (May 7, 2013)

Official technical notes from carl's post above:


> In isolated cases, the propshaft joint may be overloaded when the vehicle is driven off using the launch control programme on Audi RS 3 and TT RS vehicles manufactured whithin a specific period.


Why would you be hesitant to have the update? Is it because you think launches might be "softer" for the US manual? Since the update, I've done 5 or 6 launches on my US manual by dumping the clutch at different RPM's between 3.5k to 4.5k and I don't notice a difference at all (btw, 4k seems to be optimal RPMs for manual clutch dump launches, getting the right amount of wheel spin before taking off ). However, I haven't done any actual precise measurements on 0-60 times for before/after update, or anything like that. 



> If the customer declines to have the update performed, keep a record of this in the field campaign folder or in the customer's file.


You do have the choice to decline it but they will keep a record of it. So if something happens to your prop shaft in the future, I highly doubt it will be covered by warranty.


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

I'm not worried about launches, I was worried about overwriting my tune. Just reread the thread and it looks like this update shouldn't affect that.


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## Quisp (Mar 18, 2012)

I guess it would depend on whether they only update a sectrion of the software or they update the whiole software with the new section included.
Do they update just the drive software or do they put a whole new software in with the updated drive codes in it.?(this would overwrite any tune)


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

they do not touch the engine management


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## Quisp (Mar 18, 2012)

So when Audi updates thier software they only load the tings that are new? Good to know.


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## gengo (May 13, 2013)

The AWD system has a separate controller that can be flashed. This is a physically separate unit than the engine ECU. Therefore your engine ECU "tune" is not touched.




Quisp said:


> So when Audi updates thier software they only load the tings that are new? Good to know.


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## Optimus812 (May 5, 2012)

carl44 said:


> here's the story..carl
> 
> http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i412/TondyTT/IMG_0002_zpsf1ca378a.jpg


Thanks Carl for finding this out, as much as I'd rather have more power to the rear on launch, I'd rather have reduced risk of breaking stuff instead!


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

Optimus812 said:


> Thanks Carl for finding this out, as much as I'd rather have more power to the rear on launch, I'd rather have reduced risk of breaking stuff instead!


Your welcome. Carl


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## Optimus812 (May 5, 2012)

Just did a couple of launches, still launches like an animal... Best launch still seems to be at 4.5k then drop the hammer! 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

Optimus812 said:


> Just did a couple of launches, still launches like an animal... Best launch still seems to be at 4.5k then drop the hammer!
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


Ouch!


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

Bringing back to life.....


Are we all in agreeance on the 894 US production total or not????


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