# Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

You may remember the name Kim Stapleton as the designer behind Audi F1 renderings that this website featured earlier in the year. An architect by day, the Australian also has a passion for Audis as expemplified with works like his imagined Audi F1 design and now an illustration of Ingolstadt’s potential Le Mans future according to rules being adopted by the ACO that will mandate a closed cockpit car by 2010.
* Full Story *


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## chernaudi (Oct 6, 2006)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept ([email protected])*

The LMP car looks like something I saw on the Ten-Tenths racing forum. I'll give a link when I find it-looks like the same guy did them.


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## grmncarfan (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept ([email protected])*

Graphically, very, very nicely done . Props to Mr Stapleton.
However, the design shows a strong lack of knowlegde in prototype race car engineering. A front end like that might work in the Rolex Series prototype class, but definitely not in LMP1. LMP1 cars have their cooling system on the sides, so the grill on the nose is totally unnecessary. Aerodynamically, a contemporary LMP1 car's nose should look more like a formula car. Also, the cockpit is way too big and wide. Overall the design resembles of a Rolex prototype with an R10 rear end.
Once again, stunning graphics, but the aero is all wrong.


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## Entwerfer des Audis (Jun 16, 2006)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (grmncarfan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *grmncarfan* »_Graphically, very, very nicely done . Props to Mr Stapleton.
However, the design shows a strong lack of knowlegde in prototype race car engineering. A front end like that might work in the Rolex Series prototype class, but definitely not in LMP1. LMP1 cars have their cooling system on the sides, so the grill on the nose is totally unnecessary. Aerodynamically, a contemporary LMP1 car's nose should look more like a formula car. Also, the cockpit is way too big and wide. Overall the design resembles of a Rolex prototype with an R10 rear end.
Once again, stunning graphics, but the aero is all wrong.

Exactly what I was thinking.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (grmncarfan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *grmncarfan* »_Graphically, very, very nicely done . Props to Mr Stapleton.
However, the design shows a strong lack of knowlegde in prototype race car engineering. A front end like that might work in the Rolex Series prototype class, but definitely not in LMP1. LMP1 cars have their cooling system on the sides, so the grill on the nose is totally unnecessary. Aerodynamically, a contemporary LMP1 car's nose should look more like a formula car. Also, the cockpit is way too big and wide. Overall the design resembles of a Rolex prototype with an R10 rear end.
Once again, stunning graphics, but the aero is all wrong.

I'll pass that along to him.


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## GTX141 (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (grmncarfan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *grmncarfan* »_Graphically, very, very nicely done . Props to Mr Stapleton.
However, the design shows a strong lack of knowlegde in prototype race car engineering. A front end like that might work in the Rolex Series prototype class, but definitely not in LMP1. LMP1 cars have their cooling system on the sides, so the grill on the nose is totally unnecessary. Aerodynamically, a contemporary LMP1 car's nose should look more like a formula car. Also, the cockpit is way too big and wide. Overall the design resembles of a Rolex prototype with an R10 rear end.
Once again, stunning graphics, but the aero is all wrong.


One thing to keep in mind is that closed cockpits mandate A/C per the rules. A condenser has to go somewhere, potentially the front end. That being said, the grilles may not necessarily be er. unnecessary. They may be over the top in this example, but may not exactly be there simply for design's sake.


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## .:RDriver (Oct 4, 1999)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (GTX141)*

Also there is no need for the above roof intake. On the R10, the second gen Bentley Speed 8 and the R8, those intakes over the side pods were the intakes for the engine, having the roof mounted one wouldnt go anywere. 
The first gen of the Speed 8 had the roof intake, but if you look, it also lacked the side pod intakes.
So there is another technical inaccuracy in the design. 
Very neat idea though and I like to see folks thinking.


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## chernaudi (Oct 6, 2006)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (.:RDriver)*

Could be part of the cockpit ventalation system(?). The ACO(yes, them again) says that cars don't have to carry an AC unit if the ventalation system works well enough to suit them, and the car is ballasted to 925kgs. That's why the Aston Martins had the rooves of their cars painted white-to try to make the vent. system work more effiently. 
I really don't know which system is better-the AC unit can be turned off until the cockpit temp reaches the max allowed, thus being used as a power boost system(as the AC cars get to used larger air restictors), where as the vent car have to carry ballast-that they can place anywhere they want.
Personally, I don't like the way that the ACO wants to go with the closed cockpit regs-I think that they look too much like Daytona Prototypes(from the ACO's renders, and I'm not alone-just look at http://www.mulsannescorner.com for Panoz areodymamic consultant Mike Fuller's opinion), and I like the open cars, as well as the small cockpit LMGTP cars-the Peugeot 908 looks like an early 90's Group C car if they were allowed to use nose diffusers/F1 style noses and had 117-118 inch wheelbases. I guess that I've grown up with those cars. 
But then again, I think that Cher is hot, so go figure. At least some of you won't argue with me saying that Sharon den Adel(singer/songwriter from the Dutch-based symph. rock band Within Temptation) is hot, but sorry, she's taken(she's all but married to the band's lead gituarist, and has a daughter with him). So there you go.








Back On Topic: I hope that the car has more R8/R10 influence in it's nose design, but well have to wait until 2010 to find out what Audi will do(the R10 is legal in it's current form through 2010 at Le Mans, and maybe for a year or two in the ALMS, if the ACO follows past precidents).

_Modified by chernaudi at 11:11 PM 8-16-2007_


_Modified by chernaudi at 11:15 PM 8-16-2007_


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## GTX141 (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (.:RDriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:RDriver* »_Also there is no need for the above roof intake. On the R10, the second gen Bentley Speed 8 and the R8, those intakes over the side pods were the intakes for the engine, having the roof mounted one wouldnt go anywere. 
The first gen of the Speed 8 had the roof intake, but if you look, it also lacked the side pod intakes.
So there is another technical inaccuracy in the design. 
Very neat idea though and I like to see folks thinking.

Man you guys are nit-picky. 
I'm sure that V12 puts of a TON of heat, more than typical LMS engines. A ltiile extra engine ventilation wouldn't hurt anything. Roof scoop could still be functional. Could potentially help downforce as well (though not by much I'm sure)


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## lappies (Apr 10, 2006)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (GTX141)*

I dont care if the areo is wrong...this thing looks gorgeous!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## chernaudi (Oct 6, 2006)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (lappies)*

Now try to tell me that the same guy didn't do these:
http://www.ten-tenths.com/foru...t=185


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## grmncarfan (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (lappies)*

The thing is, once you know how a race car works, how each component functions, this "R15" actually looks pretty dreadful (and awfully dated). I'm not knocking Mr Stapleton's effort, but it's a race car, so to us motor racing fans the technical details have to look at least legit.
As for the roof intake, I didn't check the rule book but IIRC you can't have more than 2 intakes on an LMP car, especially a diesel-powered LMP1 car. Even with 2 intakes, Henri Pescarolo has been complaining and writing letters to ACO about the R10's air restrictor size.


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## lappies (Apr 10, 2006)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (grmncarfan)*









This was an image from the ACO at some meeting at Le Mans 07. This was one of the press photos when they elaborated further on the LMP1 rules for 2010. Now in an above post it was said that the details on the "R15" would be unnecessary....well in the new rules (I speak under correction) there has to be space for manufacture parts such as lights gril etc with represents the road going cars (hence why the coupe rule is being put there) So looking at the "R15" and the ACO press photo they look very similer. Ok i am not trying to start an argument.......yes I konw the thing does not look like a functional race car..but does that matter? this guy is talented and made a great looking render. I would not mind if LMP1 cars looked more like DP cars, makes the design easier and costs lower for the LMP1 class. 
I still cant wait to see what the real closed Audi LMP car looks like after 2010







(thats if Audi does carry on.....in LMP Sports Car type racing) VW moving into Single seaters








might see a F1 car soon


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## .:RDriver (Oct 4, 1999)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (lappies)*

Ok, then for the sake of argument, we'll say the intakes over the side pods are for brake cooling (on the R8/10 they go directly into the airbox/turbo on each side of the engine) and the one over the roof is for the engine.
Now they are all technically functional.


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## grmncarfan (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (lappies)*

That ACO rendering looks just like a GT1 car from the late 90's. It will work like one too: a carbon monocoque with a body work that resembels a production car. This concept was interesting back then because it was GT racing. Manufacturers actually had to have a road-going version of the race car, and they actually had to go through homologation. But now it's prototype racing, which they created so that participants didn't have to worry about things like ties to production cars, homologation, etc. Cars in the prototype class were supposed to be all-out racing machines without production restrictions, they were not supposed to look or drive like road cars. IMO the new regulations are just against the very concept of prototype racing.
I still think the new LMP1 cars will and should look more like the Peugeot 908. Below are renderings from Lola, Epsilon and Radical, all for their potential LMP1 projects. If anything, they confirm the design trend that we are currently seeing on the 908.


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## Entwerfer des Audis (Jun 16, 2006)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (grmncarfan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *grmncarfan* »_That ACO rendering looks just like a GT1 car from the late 90's. It will work like one too: a carbon monocoque with a body work that resembels a production car. This concept was interesting back then because it was GT racing. Manufacturers actually had to have a road-going version of the race car, and they actually had to go through homologation. But now it's prototype racing, which they created so that participants didn't have to worry about things like ties to production cars, homologation, etc. Cars in the prototype class were supposed to be all-out racing machines without production restrictions, they were not supposed to look or drive like road cars. IMO the new regulations are just against the very concept of prototype racing.
I still think the new LMP1 cars will and should look more like the Peugeot 908. Below are renderings from Lola, Epsilon and Radical, all for their potential LMP1 projects. If anything, they confirm the design trend that we are currently seeing on the 908. 

I tend to consider this from Audi's perspective; considering the extent to which they transfer technology used on their LMP's to road cars, I can see the connection. However, I do agree to the extent that if they want the tech to affect road cars even more, they should race in GT. 
But I can also see problems with this, because since GT cars have to be based upon production cars, the technology that would trickle down to production cars would be much less significant, and even homologation specials would have to be tuned for the road before race tuning is plausible. 
The way I see it, the best case would be if Audi used LMP to pioneer technologies, then implement them into road cars, and develop GT cars side-by-side with their road counterparts. 
The LMPs could push the technology, and the GTs could push the road cars.


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## Le Mans Champ (Dec 14, 2005)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (Entwerfer des Audis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Entwerfer des Audis* »_
The LMPs could push the technology, and the GTs could push the road cars. 


AMEN!!! AMEN!!! HALLELUJAH AMEN!!!


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## .:RDriver (Oct 4, 1999)

*Re: Independent Design Focus: 2010 Audi R15 TDI LM P1 Concept (Le Mans Champ)*

I've wondered about these new prototype rules. Since it has to look somewhat like their road going counterparts, where does that leave builders like Lola, Courage, Pescarolo, Radical, Dallara and Pilbeam? None of which have a road going car to base a design on. 
Do they have to represent the road car of the brand of engine? If so, what about the Judd or AER?
I havent looked at the rules closely, but it sure seems that they are pretty limiting and really not in line with what the ACO has been after since the start of the decade.


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