# CRACKED engine block!!!



## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

So my father's 4.2L 2005 T-reg V8 was losing coolant like CRAZY.
All of the sudden all the temp gauges went nuts. We had it towed. VW filled it back up. MY dad refused to drive home in it and had the service manager take it home for the night. What do you know? It had to be towed back to the dealership.
Long-story-short, the engine block was cracked. My dad has never off-roaded the vehicle, much less even driven it hard. VW didn't know what to do either. LUCK, he has *~59,000* miles on it, so he's just under the 60k drivetrain warranty. VW first waffled, then agreed to fix it under warranty.
Then they told my dad that it would be 4 - 8 weeks to fix it. THen they refused him a loaner car. He threatened to sue, they acquiesed. 
I was just wondering if this has ever happened before to anyone's knowledge?


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (VarLordahl)*

60,000 mile warranty? I thought our drivetrain warranties were 50,000 miles. Guess I need to read the paperwork a little better.


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## SeaTreg (Dec 27, 2004)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (Archimedes)*

We have a 5 year 60000 mile warranty on the powertrain. Hard to believe this guy has nearly 60K already! Thats a lot of driving for a 2005.


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## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (SeaTreg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SeaTreg* »_We have a 5 year 60000 mile warranty on the powertrain. Hard to believe this guy has nearly 60K already! Thats a lot of driving for a 2005.

That's correct.
My dad owns a large company and puts about 25k - 30k miles on the car per year between going on sales trips and driving between warehouses, etc...
It was the first 2005 vehicle they got at the dealership in August, 2004. THus, it's a little under 2 years old.


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## madwoman (Jul 25, 2006)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (VarLordahl)*

It's happening right now! Dealership still "investigating" the cause, and we're in week two! Sales manager has just stepped up to do the right thing and provide a loaner.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (madwoman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *madwoman* »_It's happening right now! Dealership still "investigating" the cause, and we're in week two! Sales manager has just stepped up to do the right thing and provide a loaner.

Can we assume that this is on the GTI that you show in your profile?


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## madwoman (Jul 25, 2006)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_Can we assume that this is on the GTI that you show in your profile?

Yes. 10K miles, leased 10/2005.


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## bigscout79 (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (madwoman)*

VarLordahl, what dealership you going through?


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## bonestockgolf (Oct 16, 2004)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (VarLordahl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VarLordahl* »_My dad has never off-roaded the vehicle, much less even driven it hard.

Cracked blocks aren't caused by hard driving. They're almost always caused by overheating which is exactly what happened in this case. I'm not saying that your father is at fault. It sounds like the vehicle started losing coolant somehow, resulting in an overheat condition which cracked the block.


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## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (VarLordahl)*

So here is the conclusion to the story (it ended today):
When my dad first brought it in, he told them it was a broken thermostat. My dad knows LOTS about cars (he restores cars, actually, as a hobby).
After they claimed they checked everything out, they assured him it was a cracked engine block.
They order a new engine, etc...
Just as they are taking the front clip off to start the engine work, they finally actually decide to test the thermostat.
It was the thermostat.
So my dad was without a car for around 6 weeks I believe because it was a faulty thermostat.
The dealership was great about it though. They loaned him a Toureg V6 the entire time free of charge. I don't want to post which dealership it was because despite the mix-up, they have always treated us well. If you really want to know, PM me.


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## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (VarLordahl)*

* update * for anyone still following this.
So VW calls my dad and tells him that because it was the thermostat, which is no longer covered by warranty, nothing was covered by warranty including his ~5.5 week rental of a Toureg, the labor to diagnose the problem (~30 hours) and the parts to fix the problem (~$400).
So it looks like there will be lawsuit over this. My dad luckily picked up his car before they pulled the "warranty 180" on him, so the burden is on VW right now to get the ball rolling.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (VarLordahl)*

Wait a minute. So they loaned him a Touareg at no charge and now they're charging him for it because the repair's not under Powertrain? That doesn't make sense. Powertrain doesn't cover alternate transportation to begin with. Even if the repair had been covered under powertrain, the rental vehicle wouldn't have been.


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## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_Wait a minute. So they loaned him a Touareg at no charge and now they're charging him for it because the repair's not under Powertrain? That doesn't make sense. Powertrain doesn't cover alternate transportation to begin with. Even if the repair had been covered under powertrain, the rental vehicle wouldn't have been.

Hey Chris.
Can I assume you work for the dealership that's in question here?
All I know is what my dad has told me. I am positive they initially agreed to cover the Loaner when they thought the Toureg had a cracked engine block. I know this for an absolute fact. Moreover, that's how my dad was able to pick up his car free of charge a few a days ago. 
What happened was that VW agreed to cover all costs when they thought the engine blew. So all these massive costs accrued (bear in mind that when my dad first brought the car in the first thing he told them was "the thermostat is out"), and then they realized it wasn't covered under warranty. So everything snowballed back down.
As far as VW not generally covering loaners under warranty, that's BS as well. Way back when my GTI was still covered by warranty I ALWAYS received free loaners for the time my car was being worked on (and it was being worked on ALOT). 
This is part of the reason I don't want this dealership's name dragged through the mud here because they've been great in the past.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (VarLordahl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VarLordahl* »_
Hey Chris.
Can I assume you work for the dealership that's in question here?

You can assume all you like, but you'd be wrong.







I would love to find out where this is, but I can assure you it's not at Ed Murphy VW or I would have known about it.

_Quote, originally posted by *VarLordahl* »_As far as VW not generally covering loaners under warranty, that's BS as well. Way back when my GTI was still covered by warranty I ALWAYS received free loaners for the time my car was being worked on (and it was being worked on ALOT). 

Okay -- let me clarify this.
Under the 4 year/50,000 mile b2b warranty, VW will pay for alternate transportation _if the *repair itself* requires the vehicle to remain at the dealership overnight_. That doesn't mean VW will pay for a car if you drop it off 15 minutes before close for an oxygen sensor.
Under the 5 year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty, there is no provision for alternate transportation whatsoever (with the exception of the Phaeton).
If someone was giving you a car at no charge outside of these guidelines, they were doing you a favor.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_
Under the 4 year/50,000 mile b2b warranty, VW will pay for alternate transportation _if the *repair itself* requires the vehicle to remain at the dealership overnight_. That doesn't mean VW will pay for a car if you drop it off 15 minutes before close for an oxygen sensor.
Under the 5 year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty, there is no provision for alternate transportation whatsoever (with the exception of the Phaeton).
If someone was giving you a car at no charge outside of these guidelines, they were doing you a favor.

Sounds like the dealer mis-diagnosed the issue and also wasn't aware of the proper VW loaner policy. With regard to the loaner policy, they gave the guy a car when they shouldn't have. If he had been told of this in advance, then he may have refused the car. I can't see that the dealership has much of a leg to stand on here. 
With regard to the actual problem, at what point does the powertrain stop? The thermostat is part of the cooling system and mounted on the engine which is part of the powertrain. I don't have the powertrain warranty handy but is there an exclusion for the cooling system?
Finally, what liability does the dealership have if their employee mis-diagnosis an issue and that mis-diagnosis ends up costing the customer time and money?


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## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_
You can assume all you like, but you'd be wrong.







I would love to find out where this is, but I can assure you it's not at Ed Murphy VW or I would have known about it.
Okay -- let me clarify this.
Under the 4 year/50,000 mile b2b warranty, VW will pay for alternate transportation _if the *repair itself* requires the vehicle to remain at the dealership overnight_. That doesn't mean VW will pay for a car if you drop it off 15 minutes before close for an oxygen sensor.
Under the 5 year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty, there is no provision for alternate transportation whatsoever (with the exception of the Phaeton).
If someone was giving you a car at no charge outside of these guidelines, they were doing you a favor.

First, you have a PM.
And second, then they were doing my dad a favor. But once they agreed to cover the vehicle rental, they can't all of the sudden change their minds after my dad has picked the car up.


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## Tregger (Mar 9, 2004)

I agree.
They made a verbal commitment and if your Dad already signed off on any service paperwork and there is no charge for the rental they cannot force him to pay.
The dealer should step up and cover the cost. If the loaner belonged to the dealer it doesn't cost them anything no matter what they say.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (VarLordahl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VarLordahl* »_But once they agreed to cover the vehicle rental, they can't all of the sudden change their minds after my dad has picked the car up.

On that, you have no arguement from me. I can understand him having to pay for the repairs (within reason), but not for the loaner if the dealership incurred no rental fees.

_Quote, originally posted by *Tregger* »_If the loaner belonged to the dealer it doesn't cost them anything no matter what they say.

Okay. Let me elaborate after a very quick phonecall.
Just spoke with the other involved party. Turns out as it stands right now, they (the dealership) are fighting with VW to get this covered under warranty. 
Apparently, this started with VW telling the dealership to go one direction (which they did -- addressing a _porous_ (ie: not cracked) engine block), and in the process of doing so, found the thermostat clogged with what ended up being a peeling finish from the inside of one of the coolant hoses.
At this point, no bill has been issued to the customer.
As I said, the dealer is fighting with VW's field rep diligently to get VW to pay for the thermostat replacement (technically not covered under Powertrain warranty, but they've been a good customer and the dealership wants VW to do right by the customer). Worst case scenario is the customer has to pay for the thermostat replacement. He is not being charged for the loaner Touareg the dealer provided him throughout this ordeal.

_Modified by chrisj428 at 12:07 PM 7-28-2006_


_Modified by chrisj428 at 12:07 PM 7-28-2006_


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_Sounds like the dealer mis-diagnosed the issue and also wasn't aware of the proper VW loaner policy. With regard to the loaner policy, they gave the guy a car when they shouldn't have. If he had been told of this in advance, then he may have refused the car. I can't see that the dealership has much of a leg to stand on here. 

The dealer was following the advice of their factory rep (and while it's not rocket science, sometimes all the electronics lead you the wrong way). They gave the customer a car for which he was not charged (nor is he going to be charged) out of courtesy to him.

_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_With regard to the actual problem, at what point does the powertrain stop? The thermostat is part of the cooling system and mounted on the engine which is part of the powertrain. I don't have the powertrain warranty handy but is there an exclusion for the cooling system?

It's an "inclusionary" list:

_Quote »_Powertrain Part Identifiers 
Engine: Cylinder, Block, Mounting 
Part identifier Description 
1009 Block/Crankcase 
1010 Engine Crankcase 
1011 Freeze Plug 
1013 Piston Oil Cooling Jet 
1020 Cylinder 
1029 Cylinder Base Gasket 
Engine: Crankshaft Assembly 
Part identifier Description 
1310 Piston 
1319 Piston Ring Set 
1326 Piston Pin 
1330 Connecting Rod Bearings 
1340 Connecting Rod 
1348 Crankshaft 
1350 Crankshaft Bearing 
1359 Crankshaft Oil Seal 
1360 Flywheel 
1362 Dual Mass Flywheel 
1363 Drive Plate 
1367 Crankshaft Needle Bearing 
1370 Spur Belt Drive Sprocket 
1373 Belt Tensioner Damper 
1374 Crankshaft Oil Seal 
1375 Vibration Damper 
1376 Crankshaft Pulley 
1377 Idler Pulley Assembly 
1385 Balance Shaft 
1390 Balance Shaft Chain 
1391 Chain Tensioner 
1392 Sprocket 
Engine: Cylinder Head and Valve Drive 
Part identifier Description 
1505 Camshaft 
1507 Camshaft Sprocket 
1510 Camshaft Bearings 
1514 Camshaft Oil Seal 
1519 Toothed Belt Relay Roller 
1520 Intermediate Shaft 
1523 Intermediate Shaft Oil Seal 
1524 Spur Belt 
1525 Damper 
1526 Toothed Belt Tensioner 
1527 Spur Belt Tensioner Pulley 
1535 Timing Chain 
1536 Chain Tensioner 
1540 Cam Follower 
1549 Rocker Arm Shaft 
1550 Hydraulic Lifter 
1554 Rocker Arms 
1558 Cam Follower Disc 
1559 Cam Follower 
1560 Intake Valve 
1562 Exhaust Valve 
1563 Valve Stem Seal 
1565 Valve Spring 
1569 Pressure Limiting Valve 
1570 Cylinder Head 
1571 Cylinder Head Gasket 
1572 Cylinder Head Bolt 
1573 Exh. Manifold Stud 
1575 Intake Valve Guide 
1576 Exhaust Valve Guide 
1580 Valve Cover Gasket 
1584 Camshaft Tensioner 
Engine: Lubrication System 
Part identifier Description 
1714 Oil Filler Cap/Gasket 
1715 Oil Filler Neck/Gasket 
1716 Oil Dipstick 
1720 Oil Pump/Gasket 
1724 Oil Pressure Relief Valve/Spring 
1726 Oil Pressure Regulator/Control Valve 
1733 Oil Filter Flange (082587) 
1740 Oil Cooler 
1750 Oil Pan 
1751 Oil Pan Gasket 
Engine: Cooling System, Misc. 
Part identifier Description 
1950 Coolant Pump 
1951 Coolant Pump Gaskets 
1955 Thermostat Housing 
1957 Impeller Housing 
1960 Flange/T-Piece 
2045 Fuel pump (tandem) 
2130 Turbocharger 
2329 Injection Pump (diesel) 
2338 Unit Injector 
2380 Intake Manifold (diesel) 
2442 Throttle Valve Housing 
2447 Intake Manifold (gas) 
2609 Exhaust Manifold Gasket 
3043 Push Rod Seal/Bushing 
3037 Clutch Operating Shaft 
Torque Converter 
Part identifier Description 
3247 Torque Converter Oil Seal 
3250 Torque Converter 
3251 Torque Converter Bushing (082687) 
Manual Transmission Controls and Transmission Case 
Part identifier Description 
3430 Balance Weight 
3435 Manual Trans 
3436 Gear Carrier 
3437 Transmission Housing 
3444 Selector Shaft Cover 
3445 Shift Housing 
3446 Shift Housing Gasket 
3447 Selector Shaft Bushing (04*27*90) 
3448 Selector Shaft Seal 
3449 Cover (091887) 
3450 Gear Carrier 
3451 Gear Carrier Gasket 
3480 Timing Hole Cap 
Manual Transmission Gears and Shafts 
Part identifier Description 
3514 Shift Finger 
3516 Shift Rod 
3517 Reverse Lever 
3518 Selector Shafts 
3521 1st/2nd Gearshift Fork 
3523 3rd/4th Gearshift Fork 
3524 5th & Reverse Gearshift Fork 
3525 Reverse Gearshift Fork 
3527 Reverse Selector Shaft 
3530 Shift Lock Pins (082687) 
3534 5th Gearshift 
3535 Reverse Gearshift Lever 
3540 Main Shaft 
3543 Adjusting Shim 
3546 Front Main Shaft Bearing 
3547 Center Main Shaft Bearing 
3548 Rear Main Shaft Bearing 
3550 Main Shaft Oil Seal 
3555 Reverse Gear Shaft 
3557 Reverse Gear Shaft (082687) 
3559 Output Shaft 
3560 Front Pinion Bearing 
3561 Rear Pinion Bearing 
3566 2nd/3rd Gear Syncro Assembly/ Syncro 
3567 4th/5th Gear Syncro Assembly/ Syncro (082687) 
3568 5th/Reverse Gear Syncro Hub 
3570 1st/Revrs. Gear Syncro Assembly/Syncro 
3571 1st Gear Set 
3572 2nd Gear Set 
3573 3rd Gear Set 
3574 4th Gear Set 
3575 5th Gear Set (06.02.88) 
3577 Reverse Gear Idler 
3580 Needle Bearings 
3581 1st/2nd Clutch Gear 
3582 3rd/4th Clutch Gear 
3585 5th Gear Locking Ring 
3591 1st Gear Synchronizer Ring 
3592 2nd Gear Synchronizer Ring 
3593 3rd Gear Synchronizer Ring 
3594 4th Gear Synchronizer Ring 
3595 5th Gear Synchronizer Ring 
3596 Reverse Gear Synchronizer Ring 
Automatic Transmission Controls and Transmission Case 
Part identifier Description 
3730 Transmission Control Module 
3731 Multi-function Switch 
3732 Vehicle Speed Sensor 
3735 Auto Trans 
3737 Transmission Housing 
3745 ATF Filler Pipe 
3750 Gasket 
3753 Transmission Housing Gasket 
3755 ATF Pan 
3756 Oil Pan/Gasket 
Automatic Transmission Gears and Shafts 
Part identifier Description 
3805 Planetary Gears, Complete 
3810 Main Shaft 
3814 One-Way Clutch With Piston 
3815 One-Way Clutch 
3825 Forward Planetary Gear 
3826 Reverse Planetary Gear Set 
3827 Planet Piston Carrier 
3830 Sun Gear 
3831 Large Sun Gear 
3835 Forward Clutch 
3837 Clutch 
3838 Clutch 
3839 Reverse Gear Clutch 
3844 Direct/Reverse Gear Clutch 
3853 2nd Gear Brake Band 
3856 ATF Pump 
3858 ATF Oil Filter 
3859 Pump Shaft 
3860 Trans Oil Cooler 
3864 1st Gear Brake Piston 
3865 2nd Gear Brake Piston 
3868 Governor 
3874 Parking Lot Lever 
3877 Valve Body 
3878 Valve Body Conducting Strip 
3901 Final Drive Assembly 
3902 Prop Shaft 
3905 Differential Shaft 
3906 Output Shaft Bearings 
3907 Prop Shaft Intermediate Bearing 
3908 Ring Gear/Pinion 
3910 Differential Housing 
3911 Driving Gear 
3912 Differential Side Gears 
3916 Differential Bearings 
3918 Intermediate Gear Bearings 
3920 Final Drive Side Cover/Gasket 
Automatic Transmission Differential 
Part identifier Description 
3921 Cover/Gasket 
3922 Drive Shaft Flange Seal 
3925 Left/Right Drive Shaft Flange 
3927 Drive Flange Bolt 
3928 Engine Side Output Shaft Oil Seal 
3929 Differential Lock Oil Seal 
3930 Output Shaft Bearing 
3932 Trans. Side Shaft Seal 
3933 Front Differential Lock 
3940 Rear Differential Lock 
3942 Differential Lock Switch 
3945 All Wheel Drive Ring Gear/Pinion 
3946 All Wheel Drive Differential Housing 
3950 Speedometer Drive Gear 
3951 All Wheel Drive Differential Side Gears 
3954 All Wheel Drive Differential Bearing 
3955 Prop Shaft Seal 
3956 Roller Bearing All Wheel Drive 
3957 Front Differential Bearing 
3958 Syncro Final Drive Cover 
3959 Syncro Final Drive Cover Seal 
3960 Viscous Coupling 
3962 Trans Oil Pump 
3963 Syncro L/R Drive Shaft Flange 
3965 Transfer Gearbox 
3979 Cooler 
3982 Front Drive Shaft Seal 
3988 Syncro Final Drive Assembly 
3989 Syncro Final Drive Housing 
Front Wheel Suspension Shaft and Axle 
Part identifier Description 
4041 Drive Shaft 
4044 Inner C.V. Joint 
4045 Outer C.V. Joint 
4046 Drive Shaft Damper 
Rear Wheel Suspension Shaft and Axle 
Part identifier Description 
4221 Drive Shaft (082687) 
4224 Inner C.V. Joint 
4225 Outer C.V. Joint (082687) 

If it ain't on the list, it ain't covered.

_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_Finally, what liability does the dealership have if their employee mis-diagnosis an issue and that mis-diagnosis ends up costing the customer time and money?

The dealership's not liable for time or "missed opportunity". As for having to pay for something we thought was under warranty and ended up not being, I'm sure most (if not all) dealerships have a clause on the paperwork along the lines of: "If the warranty claim ends up being rejected, you're responsible for the cost of the repairs".


_Modified by chrisj428 at 12:31 PM 7-28-2006_


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## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (chrisj428)*

Hey!
Thanks for the update and I hope you didn't tell Bill that I was disparaging them or anything. I was just posting what my dad had told me.
I want to reiterate that up to this point, we are still very happy with the dealership. They've consistently done well by us and I'm only posting all of this just for the sake of a good story basically.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (VarLordahl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VarLordahl* »_Thanks for the update and I hope you didn't tell Bill that I was disparaging them or anything. I was just posting what my dad had told me.
I want to reiterate that up to this point, we are still very happy with the dealership. They've consistently done well by us and I'm only posting all of this just for the sake of a good story basically. 

Oh not at all! I called him and just asked what was going on. He told me and I just put the facts out there.








I hail from the Phaeton forum -- we try to keep the drama llama at bay as much as possible. I know your family has a good working relationship with everyone up there and that's why they're working so hard to tell your case to VW!


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## msvolt (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (chrisj428)*

If a timing belt partially fails and the water pump leaks and this causes damage to any of the parts on your list, would repair of those parts be covered by the 10yr/100k powertrain warranty on a 99 b5 passat?


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: CRACKED engine block!!! (msvolt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *msvolt* »_If a timing belt partially fails and the water pump leaks and this causes damage to any of the parts on your list, would repair of those parts be covered by the 10yr/100k powertrain warranty on a 99 b5 passat?

It seems like they should... but this is the Touareg forum, so it's not likely anyone here would know for certain.
Try posting your question to the Passat forum.


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