# Philips LED DRL- a good alternative if you want OEM performance and output...



## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

(Mods- i decided to create a new thread for this KIT so as not to confuse with the custom led projects- and to create interest, maybe a diy?)



Forget my custom LED set-up, it was a good long run. Forget those aftermarket LED headlamps- those LEDs are nothing but accent lighting, i should know [] 
I finally installed the Philips LED Daytime Driving Lights to suffice my LED envy from newer Audis. Since the S6 LEDs are a costly option, Philips and other manufacturers have introduced LED DRLs that matches that of OEM performance. I found the Philips, a high quality, and easy to install kit. TMTuning also offer other alternative, like Hella/in.pro, but for the price (and reputation), i went with Philips.

There are 3 choices- 4LED, 5LED, or 8LED. According to their website, all options will fit the Audi A3 8P models. I purchased the 5led, original kit. The 4 was cheaper, but was too small for my pref. They are out of stock on the LED 8, although better looking, it was a bit more costlier. 
The kit i purchased was for 109.00 GBP ($178) via www.carbulbsdirect.com Shipping was free and delivery took two weeks.

***here is the link if you want to get the LED8 system which is at 229GBP= $370usd!**
http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/Ph...12824WLEDX1.html?source=webgains&siteid=73669


Install was easy, although took me 2 hours (mostly due to cutting and trimming the existing fog grills)
The kit comes with clamp holders, but i was not able to use, due to restricted space in the fog grill. It is squeezed between the two slats and is secured at the back. S Line (pre facelift) may fair better with minimum mods/cutting. Newer A3s have a video for install that can be found on youtube (i also posted below)
The LEDs turns on when*ignition is turned On. It shuts off when parking lamps are turned On. I added a bypass switch so I can have it on even when headlamps are On.
p.s And the LED8 has a built in dimmer (LEDs are still On at low power when headlamps are switched on)











































































installation/demo


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## jakjak9210 (Apr 2, 2011)

you mentioned a bypass switch to keep them on with the headlights on, is this controllable from the cabin?


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

these don't have the option to dim when headlights goes on? If not, doesn't it just become glaring at night since they shoot in all directions? I heard that's what the OEM does, in addition for the DRL to go off during turn signal so oncoming cars could see your blinker.


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## NBPT_A3 (Jan 1, 2011)

Want? Perhaps. Yes.


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

LWNY said:


> these don't have the option to dim when headlights goes on? If not, doesn't it just become glaring at night since they shoot in all directions? I heard that's what the OEM does, in addition for the DRL to go off during turn signal so oncoming cars could see your blinker.


LWNY. No they don't have a dimmer like the oem. They simply shut off when you turn on your headlamps/parking lamps. Hella's version which a bit more bulkier offers dimming like oem. 
Yes they are bright for evening driving but nothing more than what a normally aimed foglamps output would. The reflectors in the LED housing prevents glare from other angles other than head-on view.



jakjak9210 said:


> you mentioned a bypass switch to keep them on with the headlights on, is this controllable from the cabin?


Jak Yes they can be controlled from inside the cabin, you would have to route the wire/switch into the cabin yourself. Unless you know someone that can incorporate this using the DRL switch in the car (if so equipped).

this unit comes with the control module, harness to the battery, and a third wire (orange) to connect to parking lamps which turns off the LED/DRLs when parking lamps are activtaed. That's where i added spliced in a wired On/off switch- so when parking lamps are activated, i simply cut off the power being fed to the LEDs so they would stay On. Makes sense?


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## DutchcaribbeanGTI (Dec 7, 2000)

tiptronic said:


> this unit comes with the control module, harness to the battery, and a third wire (orange) to connect to parking lamps which turns off the LED/DRLs when parking lamps are activtaed. That's where i added spliced in a wired On/off switch- so when parking lamps are activated, i simply cut off the power being fed to the LEDs so they would stay On. Makes sense?


Can't you just not connect the orange wire to the parking lamps?

Or you could wire the orange wire to the Fog lights, so whenever you turn on the fog lights the DRL's will turn off.


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## Spitzbergen (Sep 10, 2010)

Sounds like the switch in-line with the orange power is the way to go. Is the orange even required? How hard would it be to put a switch in the main harness?


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

Spitzbergen said:


> Sounds like the switch in-line with the orange power is the way to go. Is the orange even required? How hard would it be to put a switch in the main harness?


the orange line to the parking lamp's purpose is to have the DRLS shut off when you turn the parking lamps on... It is not mandatory to connect it to the parking lamps (or fog wire) however, it will be constantly On when car's engine is on.

This same unit was quite popular at a Porsche Cayman forum/site. 

E


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## fatalex (Jun 2, 2009)

Will the 8 LEDs fit? From your pretty mod, it seems 5 LEDs used all the space on the fog grill.


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

fatalex said:


> Will the 8 LEDs fit? From your pretty mod, it seems 5 LEDs used all the space on the fog grill.


the Philips LED8 DRL are the same length as the LED5. They are using a different reflector housing so they are able to "compact" the design, but with same brightness/output. They are costlier though. I saw $259.00(?) at most recent via an Ebay reseller.

Yes I would have preferred the LED8, as they would have actually fit and installed neater than the led5
but I'm VERY happy w/ the LED5s. The LED8 has same length as a dollar bill...which shorter than the LED5 (a little less than 7")


car bulbs direct:
229GBP = $370.61 USD!!!
http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/Ph...8-Running-Lights-LED-Daytime-12824WLEDX1.html 

e


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## fatalex (Jun 2, 2009)

Oh, THX bro.

btw, the housing of 5 and 8 are different? its like your 5 with silver housing and the 8 is a black instead.
and from pictures, your 5s got more reflection b/c of the housing, which is good


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

fatalex said:


> Oh, THX bro.
> 
> btw, the housing of 5 and 8 are different? its like your 5 with silver housing and the 8 is a black instead.
> and from pictures, your 5s got more reflection b/c of the housing, which is good


I believe that the LED8 uses the same lenses as that found in the Audi A4's and TTSs that's why they are more compact. The silver housing for the LED5 follows more of the newer A3/Q5 and C6 S6 reflector housings and very very bright!!!.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

The 8 LED doesn't seem to be a continuous strip of LED, with breaks in between, maybe giving a LED dot look. But then it says a completely internal reflection design, so the beam is completely aimed instead of it shooting directly out like the 4 and 5 LED design. Plus 8 LED is dimmable when used in nighttime?


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

LWNY said:


> The 8 LED doesn't seem to be a continuous strip of LED, with breaks in between, maybe giving a LED dot look. But then it says a completely internal reflection design, so the beam is completely aimed instead of it shooting directly out like the 4 and 5 LED design. Plus 8 LED is dimmable when used in nighttime?


LWNY- LED8 is the same concept as the B8 A4's and TTS' LED. The output is dependent on the LED and the lenses in front of it...

The LED4/5 system's output depended on the reflector design (which by the way, has a cut off on side angles. so it's not a 'scattered' uncontrolled glare from all direction, again the same concept used for the S6/Q5/A3 LED designs. I'm not an expert, and I'll let you decide- when you see one in person. 

These are DOT/TUV approved, so it is not some "for offroad use" only product.

And no, these kits does not have the dimmer feature.

Hella's LEDDRL (see TMTuning website) has a dimmer built in.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

tiptronic said:


> LWNY- LED8 is the same concept as the B8 A4's and TTS' LED. The output is dependent on the LED and the lenses in front of it...
> 
> The LED4/5 system's output depended on the reflector design (which by the way, has a cut off on side angles. so it's not a 'scattered' uncontrolled glare from all direction, again the same concept used for the S6/Q5/A3 LED designs. I'm not an expert, and I'll let you decide- when you see one in person.
> 
> ...


I could see how the 4 and 5 LED design are, LED, reflect and collimator. 8 LED images are too small to see in detail, but the website indicates total reflection and dimming:

http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/Ph...12824WLEDX1.html?source=webgains&siteid=73669

100% wider beam compared to average product on the market thanks to TIR (total internal reflection) system

Can be used in daylight and night time (with dimmable function)​
The thing is what do they mean dimmable. Shut off or dims.


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

LWNY said:


> I could see how the 4 and 5 LED design are, LED, reflect and collimator. 8 LED images are too small to see in detail, but the website indicates total reflection and dimming:
> 
> http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/Ph...12824WLEDX1.html?source=webgains&siteid=73669
> 
> ...


You are right LWNY, this kit - LED8- are dimmable- obviously they have a different control module. 
As i said, I would have preferred the LED8..but at 199 GBP, i'm settled with the LED5. Of course, I'm going to research if there's a way to add a dimmer for the LED5 series.


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## alex911s (Mar 20, 2006)

tiptronic said:


> (Mods- i decided to create a new thread for this KIT so as not to confuse with the custom led projects- and to create interest, maybe a diy?)
> 
> Forget my custom LED set-up, it was a good long run. Forget those aftermarket LED headlamps- those LEDs are nothing but accent lighting, i should know []
> I finally installed the Philips LED Daytime Driving Lights to suffice my LED envy from newer Audis. Since the S6 LEDs are a costly option, Philips and other manufacturers have introduced LED DRLs that matches that of OEM performance. I found the Philips, a high quality, and easy to install kit. TMTuning also offer other alternative, like Hella/in.pro, but for the price (and reputation), i went with Philips.
> ...



great job!that looks great, best install i've seen so far.. we have this same ones in the Porsche forum..
i think it's the best out there, and i like the option to be off when headlights are on:thumbup:


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

alex911s said:


> great job!that looks great, best install i've seen so far.. we have this same ones in the Porsche forum..
> i think it's the best out there, and i like the option to be off when headlights are on:thumbup:


Alex911s

Yes I saw the post at planet-9 forums-- and I thought if a Porsche driver likes this, then obviously it is a quality product--and it is! 
I tried to comment, but I can't join up because I dont have a Cayman model number LOL....
:thumbup:


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## jowsley0923 (Oct 13, 2008)

i would most def pull the trigger on this if it was more like the q7 ones. with the turn signals in the same housing...i want to look into that but my laptop is currently dead atm =\

edit:
wow nvm lol i check the price they range about 1k


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

jowsley0923 said:


> i would most def pull the trigger on this if it was more like the q7 ones. with the turn signals in the same housing...i want to look into that but my laptop is currently dead atm =\
> 
> edit:
> wow nvm lol i check the price they range about 1k


Ive looked into those and other options-  I opened this thread as a reality check for affordable alternative. 

Just did a quick evening/dark environment shoot did not bother to remove the filter as you can see with the reflections.

Custom 4chip LEDs in FK Projector headlamps









Philips LED DRLs

















So basically, when I turn the car's ignition, the Philips LEDs turns On. When i switch the parking lamps on, the custom 4chip LEDs turns On, and the Philips LED DRLs turns off, and further turn of the switch activates the HIDs. I added a switch so I can allow the use of the Philips DRLs as driving/fog lamps if so desired.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

Hard to tell its brightness relative to the xmas light strip that you use for parking lights. The exposure setting changed between the two pix. Can you take pix with manual exposure setting on the camera? Also, the video is at an off angle, so the wide scattering of the xmas strip seems to make it brighter that it is. Mebbe shot a video straight on.

Also, can't see the placement of the LEDs from the pix. Are they centered in the reflector cavity? I saw Hella's closeup and it seems to have its LEDs mounted on the top of the reflector and bounce all its lights off the reflector.


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

LWNY said:


> Hard to tell its brightness relative to the xmas light strip that you use for parking lights. The exposure setting changed between the two pix. Can you take pix with manual exposure setting on the camera? Also, the video is at an off angle, so the wide scattering of the xmas strip seems to make it brighter that it is. Mebbe shot a video straight on.
> 
> Also, can't see the placement of the LEDs from the pix. Are they centered in the reflector cavity? I saw Hella's closeup and it seems to have its LEDs mounted on the top of the reflector and bounce all its lights off the reflector.




Heres the website for where I got it from- www.carbulbsdirect.com so you can study the item yourself.


E


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

tiptronic said:


> Thanks for your sarcastic comment about the christmas light strip- i've tolerated your little nit picks in the past here and other posts. Ive noticed you always have something negative to say or counter all my post (here and other posts/threads). Ive done my best to satisfy your enquiries and scrutinies. I dont even know you and you obviously dont like me or things I do to my car.
> 
> Heres the website for where I got it from- www.carbulbsdirect.com so you can study the item yourself.
> 
> ...


take a chill pill homey. just trying to help you get a better outcome from the picture/video. All I did is use an abbreviated analogy was just to make the sentence shorter, you can take it as a insult if you think it is an insult. The questions are legitimate, with all the direct LED, collimated, total internal reflection design, dimming, etc. It is all about best visibility while minimizing glare. It is important enough a question that it is legal issue in Europe when car mfg include them on the cars or users install them as aftermarket. 

Anyway, I get potshots all the time from the like of of bitchinrican, but I am not going to go stab his neck with a fork as if we in prison.


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## jowsley0923 (Oct 13, 2008)

i forgot to add this on my earlier comment...:thumbup: im diggin the ride! with my car i kind of want to do something similar to the Q7 if possible since i have an oettingier front bumper so i cant squeeze the LED's in between the fog grill things...but we will see. all my friends are telling me to drop it before doing the LED project...which i understand haha but the LEDS would be cheaperrrr


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## mkim (Jun 17, 2008)

you know a good project i'm thinking? retrofit this one to the housing of the ebay A4 led styled headlight for A3 :laugh:


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

mkim said:


> you know a good project i'm thinking? retrofit this one to the housing of the ebay A4 led styled headlight for A3 :laugh:


If I had the dectane style headlamps I would b experimenting on led position to take advantage of the reflectors. The LEDs in those headlamps are not utilizing the reflectors potentials


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## glenn55 (Aug 9, 2011)

*DRL 4*

Hi all,
just installed a set of Philips DRL 4's on my '97 C200 Benz and I've noticed that when I open the door or when the interior light goes out the DRL's activate same if I turn on or off the alarm system. Is this
normal? Has anyone had this happen to them?
Thanks in advance


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## dreaminga3 (Jan 20, 2009)

glenn55 said:


> Hi all,
> just installed a set of Philips DRL 4's on my '97 C200 Benz and I've noticed that when I open the door or when the interior light goes out the DRL's activate same if I turn on or off the alarm system. Is this
> normal? Has anyone had this happen to them?
> Thanks in advance


I don't have the Philips, but if your master controller is like mine, it triggers based on changes to the battery load when the alternator is off. So it sounds like yours is so sensitive that it's responding to your interior lights. 

Mine had this problem, and it actually drained my battery down over time (lots of short trips so it never charged enough). I'm guessing that every little load change was triggering the LEDs. I had to reconnect it to a keyed circuit so it would only turn on when the key was on. I really miss the feature of the led's lighting up when I unlocked with the key fob.


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## dreaminga3 (Jan 20, 2009)

By the way, many, many thanks to Tiptronic for paving the way for this mod. I bought a clone version of the Philips 5 with a master controller. I replaced my earlier version of the superflux LED fog grill, followed your procedure, and really love the look! The kit is good quality; I've been pleased with it. Info here...

IJDMTOY.COM: Xenon White Philips Style 5-LED High Power LED Daytime Running Light (LED Day Light) DRL Lamps
1 $134.99 $134.99 


One thing that bugged me; my LED reflectors aren't angled very much, so I couldn't follow the curve of the fog lights. Kept it from looking as OEM as I wanted. (Sorry, no pics)


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## boywonder82 (May 21, 2008)

I don't have this kit but stumbled across this cheaper option on ebay.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


He claims to use genuine Philips LUMILEDS/OSRAM LEDs. Quality looks decent, and I like how the LEDs are angled.

Who wants to be a test mule??


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

glenn55 said:


> Hi all,
> just installed a set of Philips DRL 4's on my '97 C200 Benz and I've noticed that when I open the door or when the interior light goes out the DRL's activate same if I turn on or off the alarm system. Is this
> normal? Has anyone had this happen to them?
> Thanks in advance


Yea, once in a while, the power usage for the entire car may have not dispersed completely after shut off, and when the module detects a drop on voltage of the battery (ie, opening doors and activating interior lights, or disarming alarm..etc) , it activates the LED DRLs for about 5 secs.. 

its normal..


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

boywonder82 said:


> I don't have this kit but stumbled across this cheaper option on ebay.
> 
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
> ...


They look nice... but you probably will not get Philips's proven quality... the housing on the Philips are tough!

e


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

Please Like their FB page to get latest news from Philips Automotive lighting...
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Phi...24325367598588

e


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

you mean just fog leds and turning on 'use fog as drl' in vag? or it will include the shebang gizmo electronics to auto turn on/off.


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

:thumbup:


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## jowsley0923 (Oct 13, 2008)

how does this look? im contemplating on doing this with my oetty bumpber. and don't worry im getting rings and removing the plate sometime in the near future


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

^^^ perhaps with the LED8 system


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## jowsley0923 (Oct 13, 2008)

yeah thats what im thinking about but i cant find how long those things actually are. if you happen to know please let me know


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

(from http://www.powerbulbs.com/product_detail.asp


For the LED8:
165x18x35mm


for the Euro market only DRL (5) which i have:
Length: 18cm
Height: 2cm
Depth: 5cm

and for the LED4:
Unit dimensions: 24x125x31mm

And the LED8 has a built in dimmer (LEDs are still On at low power when headlamps are switched on)


by the way, you can get the Euro ones (drl5) via www.Carbulbsdirect.com for about $170, the LED4 is avail via amazon for $99!! the LED8 runs above $200+ Considering though that the Audi OEM S6 LEDs cost more $$$ and they are of same manufaturer (Philips/Osram/Luxeon LEDs)


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## beckermanex (Jan 25, 2011)

BUMP!

Looking at doing this, it looks like the LED5 is no more, only a 4 and an 8 on Amazon (at least) however tiptronics car is in the product listing on Amazon for the LED8:

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-12824WLEDX1-DayLight-Powered-Daytime/dp/B005DX6BKW/ref=pd_sim_auto_1

You're famous!


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

beckermanex said:


> BUMP!
> 
> Looking at doing this, it looks like the LED5 is no more, only a 4 and an 8 on Amazon (at least) however tiptronics car is in the product listing on Amazon for the LED8:
> 
> ...




EURO LED DRL (LED5) are available in europe- or through here:
http://www.powerbulbs.com/us/product/philips-led-daytime-lights-drl-daytime-running-lights-kit


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## sleepy3 (Feb 6, 2012)

tiptronic said:


> EURO LED DRL (LED5) are available in europe- or through here:
> http://www.powerbulbs.com/us/product/philips-led-daytime-lights-drl-daytime-running-lights-kit


 10 bucks more for the LED8 seems like its worth it to go with amazon


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

sleepy3 said:


> 10 bucks more for the LED8 seems like its worth it to go with amazon


 Exactly =) The LED8 comes with a dimmer module. So when headlamps are turned on, the LED dims. The LED5 on the other hand does not come with a dimmer nor the LED8's module wont work with it. The LED5's output is bright and somewhat in the 5000k range (warmwhite) while the LED8, with a different designed lenses, has a more 6000k or coolwhite aura to it... 

I like them both. but currently using LED8 

there is also an LED4- which is shorter, and i think would apply better on vertical application 

e


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## beckermanex (Jan 25, 2011)

tiptronic said:


> Exactly =) The LED8 comes with a dimmer module. So when headlamps are turned on, the LED dims. The LED5 on the other hand does not come with a dimmer nor the LED8's module wont work with it. The LED5's output is bright and somewhat in the 5000k range (warmwhite) while the LED8, with a different designed lenses, has a more 6000k or coolwhite aura to it...
> 
> I like them both. but currently using LED8
> 
> ...


 Tip, with your experience putting these in, could a rather novice (i.e. me) be okay in installing this? I'm pretty comfy with moding the fog light area and getting it mounted (although a bit clueless as to which adhesive to use) but the wiring is the part that scares me, are the instructions pretty straight forward? Does it connect directly to the battery and will I probably kill myself doing it?


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

beckermanex said:


> Tip, with your experience putting these in, could a rather novice (i.e. me) be okay in installing this? I'm pretty comfy with moding the fog light area and getting it mounted (although a bit clueless as to which adhesive to use) but the wiring is the part that scares me, are the instructions pretty straight forward? Does it connect directly to the battery and will I probably kill myself doing it?


 Wiring it (and routing the cables) and connecting to the battery (and splicing into the parking lamp for the orange wire for auto shut off when turning on parking lamp/headlamps) is easy peasy. Just follow instructions (or video) 

Mounting it and securing it is more time consuming.. gotta make sure they are level and not lop-sided. 

I recommend routing the right led wirings by the firewall/wiper area. I routed my initial LED5 by the engine bay to reach the battery on driver side, and it came loose and made contact to the engine and burned the plastic coating of the wire. In otherwords, be wise of were you route the wires. No u wont get killed unless you hold the battery - one hand on positive and the other on negative and stand over a puddle :laugh: 

goodluck


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## beckermanex (Jan 25, 2011)

tiptronic said:


> Wiring it (and routing the cables) and connecting to the battery (and splicing into the parking lamp for the orange wire for auto shut off when turning on parking lamp/headlamps) is easy peasy. Just follow instructions (or video)
> 
> Mounting it and securing it is more time consuming.. gotta make sure they are level and not lop-sided.
> 
> ...


 No puddles here, was going to be 106 today. Fun!. 

When you mounted to the foglight plastic area thingy, did you try and squeeze it in between the two flares or did you Dremel that area out? How did you mount the LEDs to those flares, adhesive, clips, both, magic?


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

I dremmeled the back part of the fog grill slats (middle one). And used adhesives (silicone glue may work) u can be creative of mounting and securing from behind. Have patience. Don't rush.


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## sleepy3 (Feb 6, 2012)

tiptronic said:


> I dremmeled the back part of the fog grill slats (middle one). And used adhesives (silicone glue may work) u can be creative of mounting and securing from behind. Have patience. Don't rush.


 any recommendations for a good dremel?


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

sleepy3 said:


> any recommendations for a good dremel?


 Dremel Rotary tool kit  it took me some time to cleanly remove. It was a cordless kit, perhaps a corded one would be better


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## sleepy3 (Feb 6, 2012)

any significant differences in the dremel 4000 and the 6800?


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## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

personally i hate dremel. 

I only use it to cut stuff that are hidden. 


I always use hand tools for cleaner, straighter cut.


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## JaseZilla (Feb 20, 2012)

The setup looks very good! My only question is that it seems the LED's look quite a bit warmer than the HID's. I like the LED's to look more cool in color. Like 6k or so. Is that just the camera or is it warmer IRL? I love the idea though. Looks so clean.


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## krazyboi (May 19, 2004)

$173.. cheapest I've seen the 8LEDs so far

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005DX6BKW/ref=pe_58340_23895090_pe_vfe_dt1


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## yimsum (Apr 22, 2012)

What did you guys do about the stock fog lights? Wouldnt it be too busy with the stock fog lights and the LED lights? Is there a way to disconnect the fogs (maybe a dummie bulb) and just run the LEDs as fogs?


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## Dr Chill (Aug 24, 2011)




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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

yimsum said:


> What did you guys do about the stock fog lights? Wouldnt it be too busy with the stock fog lights and the LED lights? Is there a way to disconnect the fogs (maybe a dummie bulb) and just run the LEDs as fogs?


It's still good to have the fogs- which i still use for very adverse weather, plus it also helps to light up the side of the road along the local canyons without having to turn the brights on.



Dr Chill said:


>


Nice! ^^^


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