# 16vt timing maps - please share



## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

I do plan on taking my car to a dyno to tune the ignition map but that may be after I rebuild the bottom end. can you 16vt guys post up a map of your timing and quick info about your compression ratio, pistons, spacer/stacked gaskets, cams, has your timing been tuned on a dyno for max torque, etc. I am sure there are other factors affecting timing such as the turbo itself but just trying to get a good comparison and discussion going about ignition timing.
I'll start off with a pic of valvecovergasket's ms timing map from his 1.8 16v with 8:1 decked pistons. If you have a pic to email me at [email protected] I'll host it and send you the link











_Modified by chadr at 1:38 PM 9-21-2007_


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (chadr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chadr* »_1.8 16v with stacked gaskets. 

decked pistons http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
is that my latest one i posted in that long thread of mine?...i havent looked at the setup for that car in a long time, but i thought the map i did my last dyno pull on was different.
anyway, yeah lets see some more


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*

this is the one you emailed my on Jul 19 called "6-4-07 more spark, less fuel up top (15psi)!!.msq"


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (chadr)*

yup, thats the most recent one http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*

looking for input here from the 16vt guys. thanks


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (chadr)*

that map is a bit conservative, I can run about 22-24* total timing on 94 oct up to 18psi, all on a 2L 16v with 2 ABA head gaskets.


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skillton* »_that map is a bit conservative, I can run about 22-24* total timing on 94 oct up to 18psi, all on a 2L 16v with 2 ABA head gaskets.

Was your tuning was done on a dyno? did you stop advancing the timing where the power no longer increased or were you limited by detonation?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skillton* »_that map is a bit conservative, I can run about 22-24* total timing on 94 oct up to 18psi, all on a 2L 16v with 2 ABA head gaskets.

this is with 92 pump on a 1.8l...if it makes a difference.
the numbers up there are all i felt comfortable doing...and ive seen similar results from a few other local 16vT cars. im sure a few more degrees could go in there though


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*

Here's my ignition map:
30*
*Use race gas.


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (need_a_VR6)*

that works too.


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (chadr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chadr* »_
Was your tuning was done on a dyno? did you stop advancing the timing where the power no longer increased or were you limited by detonation?

obviously not... I tune anywhere but the dyno, the only thing I do at the dyno is keep the #s consistent
it put down 248,247,249 with no cooling and no ventilation on a hot day.


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*

so how do you listen for knock?


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (chadr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chadr* »_so how do you listen for knock?

With my ears


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*

you know knock can be bad enough to ruin your engine even if you can't hear it (according to experienced tuners), and while driving under boost it would be nearly impossible to hear unless its really bad. why not pay for a little dyno time and tune it where you know its safe to push it on the street/track?


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## dub101 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Here's my ignition map:
30*
*Use race gas.










I love you Paul!
anyway alitlle input on the topic. I know a I have a 8v but... I have run 22-24 total on the street with 93 octane and 20+ psi boost. The car has never been to the dyno so I'm not sure if it is at peak torque or not. Just remember to little timing = excessively high exhaust gas temps ( I was told no less then 15* total timing) and to high and it will detonate. You will be fine with 18* total under boost with 91+ gas. I have a knock sensor on my sds and I start picking up knock under load at 26*. Also while tuning for part load I started pinging at 30*. 
I hope this helps. 
Stan


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (chadr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chadr* »_you know knock can be bad enough to ruin your engine even if you can't hear it (according to experienced tuners), and while driving under boost it would be nearly impossible to hear unless its really bad. why not pay for a little dyno time and tune it where you know its safe to push it on the street/track?

rofl
First you ask me how to tune, then you tell me how to tune? My engine got daily beatings all summer long... started @ 12psi for 2 weeks, then 14, then 16, then 18, and now 14 low boost/19 hi boost.
If my tune was bad that stock block woulda been long gone...
I am an experience tuner, and according to me you should shut the **** up and learn from the right people


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*

you have an egt probe on that thing?
also, are you using a distributor or coil packs?


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_you have an egt probe on that thing?
also, are you using a distributor or coil packs?

I have a EGT probe about 3" from the turbine outlet, the EGTs are always fine, I'm using Cavalier coils with the SDS driving them


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*

just curious...
as my timing is all distributor based so i could be +/- a degree or two (its damn close but with the dist, who knows







)
thatll put me a little closer to your 22*, that and i run 92 octane


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skillton* »_
I am an experience tuner, and according to me you should shut the **** up and learn from the right people









skill, great news. i did ask for people to share their ignition maps, but i didn't think anyone would get their panties bunched up when asked a few questions. I trust you are an excellent tuner and you can tune any car by ear with an open down pipe/dump tube/whatever that means in your sig. thanks for your experience.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (chadr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chadr* »_
and you can tune any car by ear with an open down pipe/dump tube/whatever that means in your sig. 









didnt even notice that.
youd be hard pressed to hear knock under boost even without the open dump coming into play....


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (chadr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chadr* »_
skill, great news. i did ask for people to share their ignition maps, but i didn't think anyone would get their panties bunched up when asked a few questions. I trust you are an excellent tuner and you can tune any car by ear with an open down pipe/dump tube/whatever that means in your sig. thanks for your experience.

Respect... I usually wear either boxers or no underwear, but thanks for coming out


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_








didnt even notice that.
youd be hard pressed to hear knock under boost even without the open dump coming into play....

My engine revs to 7800rpm and makes 10.5psi in neutral, does yours? Didn't think so. My car wasn't always open DP.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*









20vT for what its worth... i've been trying to get some input on my map but nobody seems to comment


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (the4ork)*

pull about 3-4 @ 137, [email protected] 169, no more than 10 from there on except for 265
oh and feel free to run 28-30 @ 3000.


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## GTOBB (Dec 30, 2003)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*









2.0 16v - 314 crank HP @ 15PSI


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skillton* »_
My engine revs to 7800rpm and makes 10.5psi in neutral, does yours? Didn't think so. My car wasn't always open DP.

revs to 7800? no because my IC sucks, power drops off after 7something. v2.0 will be a little more free flowing








psi in neutral? who cares, i dont drive in neutral...and if youre making that much boost with no load on the engine, you need a bigger turbo
as a side note, im curious if youve got any dynos to post of this motor
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by ValveCoverGasket at 10:31 AM 9-28-2007_


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_
revs to 7800? no because my IC sucks, power drops off after 7something. v2.0 will be a little more free flowing








psi in neutral? who cares, i dont drive in neutral...and if youre making that much boost with no load on the engine, you need a bigger turbo
as a side note, im curious if youve got any dynos to post of this motor
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by ValveCoverGasket at 10:31 AM 9-28-2007_

I have a turbonetics T3/T04E Ballistic series turbo. 57 trim, .63 A/R stg 3 wheel, no restrictor, no trace of oil in my IC piping,
I think it's big enough for a tiny 2L


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (chadr)*

Keeping this thread live...
http://autospeed.com.au/cms/A_109132/article.html
here is something I ran across this morning, i'll be taking my car to the dyno in a week or two. I am building a microphone/amplifier/headphone thing based on the whisper 2000 hearing aid - instructions here http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0353. Just got it off ebay a few days ago. Then I can compare how the whisper 2000 compares with knocksense. The dyno owner/operators at my local shop have found the best way to listen for knock is to hold a metal pipe or crowbar against the engine block. They mostly tune nissan z engines. They've tried the diy det cans made with hose, crushed copper tube, and hearing protectors but didn't have good results.
i also found that someone was willing to loan me the knock box http://www.KnockBox.com.au for $100 for one week. These cost $600 new and I would only tune my own engines so this would no be worth it to buy one.... but to loan for a week - that is a possibility.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (chadr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chadr* »_Then I can compare how the whisper 2000 compares with knocksense. The dyno owner/operators at my local shop have found the best way to listen for knock is to hold a metal pipe or crowbar against the engine block. 

thats basically what youll end up doing with the whisper box.
let us know how it goes, and how it compares to the knocksense http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_
thats basically what youll end up doing with the whisper box.
let us know how it goes, and how it compares to the knocksense http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

just got back from the dyno and I can say that the whisper 2000 knock detection works very well. You can clearly hear the knock and the knocksense light comes on at the same time too. Nobody is going to tell me they can hear this slight knock while driving a 16v... don't care how quiet your car is. Even if you had your ear on the engine at 4500 rpm+ you are not going to hear it.
We set the rpm constant at 3500 and 4500 then held the load at 160 kpa. We found that if we dropped the timing a couple degrees the power would drop off, and if the timing was increased a couple degrees it would ping. My map is much more conservative than the one posted above. It really takes up a lot of time on the dyno to do ignition tuning though so I didn't do very many cells. I just wanted to make sure my knock detection was working well so I can now back off the timing until I don't hear or see the knock.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (chadr)*

i ended up buying one of the whisper2000s as well, havent had a chance to really play with it much though, but tried it on some factory managed cars...no not really any knock...lots of white noise from the valve train/trans/etc though
where are you clipping the mic to on the block?


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*

I clipped it to the driver side knock sensor bolt. It does sound like a bunch of noise if you are just listening in, but when the knock is there is a very clear splat sound. I was on the dyno at 100kpa and increased the timing until the knock light came on and it was very clear even with the crappy open ear whisper2000 head phones. it will be even better to hear with a nice pair of ear bud headphones that seal out the regular engine noise.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (chadr)*

interesting!
i guess ill have to get it on an MS car so i can actually push the spark up to the knock limit to hear something other than white noise haha


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*

so you had good luck with the knock sense setup? 
just did a bunch of work on a rally car and it was so damn loud i couldnt make out anything. we thought we had some rowdy knock so i pulled a bunch of timing out of the top end, but other than that it was just tweaking a/f and guessing....def need to get something on that before next season


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (VWralley)*

bring it up here and well toss the whisper2000 on it for a few hours


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*

i like it! got any long streches of gravel roads? we gotta get it up to temp (waaay hotter than it should be







)
seriously though, you got a good dyno in town? he may be down for this as all i could do was throw a tune at it with only my ears and the a/f guage, we are literally crossing fingers he doesnt run into any motor problems next weekend...


_Modified by VWralley at 2:11 PM 10-22-2007_


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (VWralley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWralley* »_i like it! got any long streches of gravel roads? we gotta get it up to temp (waaay hotter than it should be







)

yup


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (VWralley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWralley* »_so you had good luck with the knock sense setup?

Well now that I've confirmed it detects valid knocks I would say that it works well. I have it adjusted so it is the least sensitive and that seems about right. Unfortunately I've had to run so much less timing than most others with similar setups to avoid any detonation. Some have asked if I know my initial advance is accurate. I did verify the 6 deg btdc mark on the flywheel just few nights ago and it was perfect with megasquirt locked at 6 deg. Maybe the 16v engines do knock a little and it isn't so bad, but it just doesn't sound good once you hear the splat on the whisper2000 and see the knocksense light blinking. I have an '94 aba shortblock on the way so I'll probably be dropping the compression to ~8:1 sometime in the next few months.. and trying to tune the ignition map again. 


_Modified by chadr at 7:11 PM 10-22-2007_


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (chadr)*

Just played with 034EFI on my friend's car.... it pees on megasquirt, just a lil


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skillton* »_Just played with 034EFI on my friend's car.... it pees on megasquirt, just a lil









ignorance is bliss http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VDUBIN (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skillton* »_Just played with 034EFI on my friend's car.... it pees on megasquirt, just a lil









Yah... at a cost of what 4X?


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skillton* »_Just played with 034EFI on my friend's car.... it pees on megasquirt, just a lil
















um are you using MS because its the best standalone out there?? probably not








every higher dollar setup is "better" but MS can be tuned to work very well on any engine setup for way less than half the cost in most cases. we use it cause it works very well on a budget, if i had ulimited funds id used EFI technologies or EMS


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_
ignorance is bliss http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Ignorance? I never said MS is not good... for the price it's a great system, but 034EFI is a much better EMS IMO. I've worked with SDS, MS v2.2 & 034EFI Stage Ic.
So far I consider 034EFI to be the best out of the 3. The only complaint I had about it is the 2d Timing maps, but apparently the're working on new firmware which will include a lot of changed to the way the timing is handled.
Either way, don't get your panties in a bunch when I say a system that costs 3x as much as MS is better... it should be a given








Just for my information, what EMS have you worked with other than MS?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*

i think given the MANY different versions of MS out there, its tough to fairly judge MS based on a 4-5 year old board version (which is much more limited than the current stuff, and theres also huge variations in capability depending on what code you were running, etc)
for what it worth, ive had plenty of exposure to haltech, performance electronics (which is garbage, btw), and MS.
i certainly wouldnt turn down the opportunity to work with 034 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
and i dont think the price arguement is a fair one, sds costs 3x as much as MS, and i would argue that its capabilities are certainly not better.


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*

well I'm not sure what version the ms was... it may have been v3... From what I remember it was up to date with all the firmware and was one of the newest versions at the begining of the summer.
SDS is great too, its fine tuning capabilities are not as good as most other systems out there, but what I love about it is the fact that I don't need a laptop and to modify cells as I'm booting along at 100+km/h








My SDS is tuned very close to perfect at this point. I could set my Greddy Profec b spec 2 to any boost setting up to 20psi, and the AFR/timing is perfect everywhere


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## bdcoombs (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*

ok more maps please


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (bdcoombs)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (bdcoombs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bdcoombs* »_ok more maps please 

I will see if I can get my friend John to take a screen shot of his timing map, but you don't really need any more maps...
If you want, send me a copy of your map and a program to edit it, I will send it back to you and give it a try...


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## Rado.16vT (May 25, 2005)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*

Run 38 degree till you start building boost, pull timing after, i pull 1 degre for 1.5psi


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## bdcoombs (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (Rado.16vT)*

yeah im new to the standalone world just trying to get some idea where to start with the 034 i got coming


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (bdcoombs)*

What's your exact setup? I may have a really good map for you after I finish tuning my friends 16vT
It could make things much easier for u


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## bdcoombs (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*

aba 16v 1.8P&P head TT cams t3/t4 48ar stg 3 60trim. short runer with stacks 3inch exhaust.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skillton* »_Just played with 034EFI on my friend's car.... it pees on megasquirt, just a lil









For the money, I'd rather have SDS!







Obviously for less I'd have MS and if I had any money at all I'd have Autronic or Motec. Honestly 034 only makes sense for those that don't want to stray from the 'dub' community for their engine electronics. 
Just for chuckles let me tell you a short story. A local guy has a built Ecotec race boat on Tec3. He's pulling it for MS because it's cheaper, simpler, and has MORE tech support and actually will work. Too funny.







Maybe I should tell him to run 034


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (need_a_VR6)*

I think you should, especially now that the're re-working their timing map
It has some serious potential... MS is a low budget 034 basically. If he has the money for tec3 tell him to try 034


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## VaughanRapidTransit (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (bdcoombs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bdcoombs* »_aba 16v 1.8P&P head TT cams t3/t4 48ar stg 3 60trim. short runer with stacks 3inch exhaust. 

That's a very similar setup to mine, I'll post a screen of my map if you want later today. BTW I'm Skilly's buddy John








BTW the biggest reasona I went with 034 when I did was because it was relatively cheap, simple to use (for a beginner) was calibrated to run stock type sensors ie. IAT, Crank pos. etc. and The Tech support from the guys at 034 is second to none. I felt more comfortable with buying a unit designed and built by VAG guys that were into that, as they would've probably experienced a lot of bugs along the way before I did, so there was a lot of comfort in that. The guys are very good, and super knowledgeble.
but, back on topic, I'll post a screen of my ignition map shortly.


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## bdcoombs (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (VaughanRapidTransit)*

that is ithe same reason i went with 034, i have on ly messed with dsm link which is almost for retards because it is so easy to use. so i took 034 for the tech help 
please post that map then thanks


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (VaughanRapidTransit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VaughanRapidTransit* »_
That's a very similar setup to mine, I'll post a screen of my map if you want later today. BTW I'm Skilly's buddy John








BTW the biggest reasona I went with 034 when I did was because it was relatively cheap, simple to use (for a beginner) was calibrated to run stock type sensors ie. IAT, Crank pos. etc. and The Tech support from the guys at 034 is second to none. I felt more comfortable with buying a unit designed and built by VAG guys that were into that, as they would've probably experienced a lot of bugs along the way before I did, so there was a lot of comfort in that. The guys are very good, and super knowledgeble.
but, back on topic, I'll post a screen of my ignition map shortly.


O yeh? What shop tuned yer 034


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skillton* »_If he has the money for tec3 tell him to try 034

Why? Instead of having a HUGE user base, tech support both locally and worldwide, and constant updates/innovations, etc he'll run something that's really only supported by one person? Funny.


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## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*

22deg. total timing @28-30 psi 444whp,16Vturbo with SDS







,wanted to add that this was on C16 with gallon or so of 92 in the tank,GT3076R,2.0aba16V,Zornig log manifold,ported head,S/R intake,Ford TB.,TT cams,adj. cam gear.
Not the highest,not even close,but fun for a street car,and has good powerband and reliable so far.
Start @ 15deg idle ramped up to full advance @3250rpms.,few deg. pulled out @ tq. peak,and rev to 8k.
Good luck man,have a decent build and good gas,good afr,and dial in the timing you WILL make power.










_Modified by VWAUDITEK at 10:22 PM 10-26-2007_


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (need_a_VR6)*

I support it... that makes it at least 2
but either way my tune is mint, his is clearly not.


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (VWAUDITEK)*

man, you don't know anything about 16vT, SDS or standalone, and neither do I....
I never even checked my inj duty cycle


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
Why? Instead of having a HUGE user base, tech support both locally and worldwide, and constant updates/innovations, etc he'll run something that's really only supported by one person? Funny.


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
Why? Instead of having a HUGE user base, tech support both locally and worldwide, and constant updates/innovations, etc he'll run something that's really only supported by one person? Funny.

Oh and to answer your questions, why would you need support if there are no problems? It's easy to tune, and there aren't really any bugs. Everything is pre-assembled, and if you communicate you will get a good base map from 034EFI for most applications.
So my question to you is, what good is HUGE worldwide support if you buy a system with no problems?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (skillton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skillton* »_
So my question to you is, what good is HUGE worldwide support if you buy a system with no problems?

You are delusional if you think that the 034efi hardware and software is impervious to imperfection. EVERY software system has bugs, and they ALL can be improved. I'm just glad that some VERY intelligent people have been working on the system I use for years and it's constantly getting better every day.
That's just on the hardware/software support side, not taking into account the setup/tuning side. Basemaps are BS that tuners feed people to make them feel safe, if you need a basemap you probably shouldn't be tuning cars. Considering I can start any setup, with a few tweaks, off a map that was tuned for a Chevy 305 should tell you how worthless they are. Or it'll tell you how versatile MS is, take your pick


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Considering I can start any setup, with a few tweaks, off a map that was tuned for a Chevy 305 should tell you how worthless they are. Or it'll tell you how versatile MS is, take your pick









oh boy!
this is getting hilarious!


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## jettatech (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: 16vt timing maps - please share (ValveCoverGasket)*

Interesting thread. I have an amplified tester at work, along with steelman's "chassis ears". Something to consider when we tune in the spring. Drewbrew's set up FTW. I am running a similar ignition map as Sailor did when he ran SDS. It's archived here somewhere. bern.
Edit: Aloha Stan and Thomas! Geez it been a while since Ive seen you fellas around!! 


_Modified by jettatech at 6:07 PM 10-29-2007_


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