# 2.0 turbo manifold WHY ARE WE STUCK WITH THOSE CAST IRON MANIFOLD



## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

Anyone on this forum know someone or a company that make tubular turbo manifold either ram style or equal-length with a 4 to 1 collector...........we are stuck with those cheap and poor design cast iron manifold.On this forum they have discussion about the best turbo that money can buy intake manifold.But little is said about exhaust manifold which can influence your overall outcome. WHY ARE WE STUCK WITH THOSE CAST IRON MANIFOLD ..............CAN WE DO A GROUP BUY. Don't we deserve better


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^not many people turbo the 2.0 motors, that why theres not many manifold options.


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

there lots of cast iron around just look at ebay............is it because we buy them without question or the manufactures who produce them r just lazy or they have an eye on the buck


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## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

Because 49 out of 50 people going turbo on an aba, wont pay the money for a ramhorn.....


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

U know what old folks say about assumption................a good turbo cost $1000+ so


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

because no one wants to spend triple+ the money for a manifold thats not going to make much more power on our low revving motors.


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## g60vwr (Apr 9, 2000)

16v Drakes said:


> there lots of cast iron around just look at ebay............is it because we buy them without question or the manufactures who produce them r just lazy or they have an eye on the buck


newb... your not the first. search boost factory "snake" manifold. They were made, no one spent the money. Those of use who did, got what we wanted.

If you are ok with spending 1k on a turbo then have a fabricator make the manifold for you. 

The real reason why no one buys them is that the 8v motor does not have the greatest flow numbers, even ported. So if people were serious about power, they would buy the better equipment from jump.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

pay your $$$ and get a custom one made since oyu want one so bad :thumbup:


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

Why would you "need" an ramhorn? If you can't answer this question correctly then you don't need one.


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## jettatech (Oct 26, 2001)

i love 8v turbos. to be honest, my manifolds are the cheapest parts of my engine, they never break. only had to buy them once. pistons, valve seats, overboosting, thats where the monies are , LOL.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

x2 ^^


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

*Rules .....1.6 8v..................No more than 2valves per cylinder turbo*

I have a 1990 golf race car weight 1620 lbs with a 1.6 ........8v turbo x 9000 rpm dyno at 378hp 
JE coated pistons +Carillo rods +Calico coated bearings
Dry sump
Cat cams fast road +Cat valves springs +Cat retainer
Garrett gt 3
ported head+Ferrea valves
ARP....... crank +head+flywheel +rods
Quaife drive line
crank +rod +pistons +clutch+flywheel balanced
Motec Fuel +Spark 
VP Q16
Some disadvantage of cast iron they are heavy.........internal streamlining is poor......no collector.........wastegate position is poor......compressor efficiency goes down.......high manifold pressure
Advantage ........ of a cast iron manifold....thermal expansion (customer)......high volume production at low cost.......(manufactor)


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

1620 lbs... :sly: I like to know where you shaved 700lbs from. Garrett GT 3....what?

FYI, some of the fastest VR's are using cast mani's. And yes, everyone know tubular is better then cast but the trade off is reliability. Those worries can be spent elsewhere. Power & efficiency can be achieved elsewhere.


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

Here's one i found in the mk1 forum.


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

*weight lost*

a undercoating removed 
b power steering
c steering column remove and replace with a steering rod and rod ends
d brakes booster and pedal box removed replaced with wilwood floor month 
c spare wheel well removed covered with aluminum sheet
d racing battery 15 lbs
e omp seat 14 lbs
f all glass removed replaced with Lexon
g fiber glass hatch
h wilwood calipers 
i aluminum rear calipers
j front bumper replaced with plastic bumper
k all bumper reinforcement replaced with aluminum
l Gal fuel cell
m front sub frame replaced with steel tube
n front suspension A arm replaced with steel tube and rod ends
o toyo r888 225 -50-14 which r the lightest dot tires under 100 tread wear
p bbs bmw mesh 4x100 (looking for a lighter replacement any suggestion 14 )



May have missed something will update later and I'm open for suggestions


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

pictures or videos of this car.
Sounds bad ass!


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

Has anyone used the USRT Mk2 Rear Toe Stabilizer kit is it worth the extra weight and what about there cable shifter upgrade........................


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## fastrabbit (Jan 17, 2002)

I opted to build my own, my first one.. 

twin scroll goodness


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## jettatech (Oct 26, 2001)

flanges and bends. IIRC my flanges were from ATP and TT. Weld els from master-car. key player was having a good tig welder which turned out to be a good friend. I spent less in a tubular mani than just ordering a cast piece. you are only limited to a cast mani if you decide not to think outside the box, have resources and time. The above piece is a nice example of taking matters into ones own hands. Going back some years....even the 16v turbo ex. manis were home built, at one time. Early "hardcore vw" guys didnt get into the 10's using off the shelf parts, they were made. Heck, if you decide to get a tubular mani, you might just have to make a decent turbo brace...some things cant be bought on a credit card, but the parts can be. then you would need a proper down pipe which would allow open or internal wastegate, how many o2 bungs, what flange 2.5 or 3" ect ect.


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

This is the kind of stuff I'm looking for...............i'm not here to sell anything ......and like others who try to convince others that a cast iron is all they will need.........thank you guys


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## fastrabbit (Jan 17, 2002)

if you see the head behind my manifold you can see an extra head flange. I'm planning of fabbing another manifold a ram horn or something. I want to build it to get expericence. :thumbup:


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

Share your pictures we r interested :thumbup:


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## WannabemkIV (Feb 24, 2011)

16v Drakes said:


> bbs bmw mesh 4x100 (looking for a lighter replacement any suggestion 14 )


 Look into BBS RG-F, I've got a couple friends running them and they are crazy light.


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

They don't make them in 14 thank u any way


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

Jim Zornig from racecraft engineering can do it (pretty sure his screen name is "Zornig" on here). I also know of someone else who could. If you PM me i can get you in touch. I had made one for myself. Along with other mods i dyno'd 375whp/365wtq on a mustang dyno at 25psi on a Holset HX35 which used a 54mm/76mm compressor identical to that of a t3/t4 50trim. :beer:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

the_q_jet said:


> Jim Zornig from racecraft engineering can do it (pretty sure his screen name is "Zornig" on here). I also know of someone else who could. If you PM me i can get you in touch. I had made one for myself. Along with other mods i dyno'd 375whp/365wtq on a mustang dyno at 25psi on a Holset HX35 which used a 54mm/76mm compressor identical to that of a t3/t4 50trim. :beer:


 :thumbup: not bad for the hx35


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

Big_Tom said:


> :thumbup: not bad for the hx35


 people sleep on the Holset turbos.... 

Everyone wants to stick to the hype with the Precisions and Garrets and what not. If you're on a budget, Holset will get the job done. That turbo cost me $150.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

i know about know all about holsets they are sick :thumbup: most of the kits are taylored around the other brands so of course that what everybody uses. holset and borgwarner are as good as garrett anyday


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

Anyone ever used the KKK 24 OR KKK 4LGZ......... how would they respond


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## SportyB5 (Jun 4, 2005)

16v Drakes said:


> a undercoating removed
> b power steering
> c steering column remove and replace with a steering rod and rod ends
> d brakes booster and pedal box removed replaced with wilwood floor month
> ...



Not sure if they make them in 14 but I have Enkei RPF-1 wheels in size 15 and each one is about 9.5 lbs. Haven't seen anything lighter than that unless you go with SSR wheels but I'm not sure on 14s.


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

Hi thank you ..............was looking on Ebay for a manifold.......... maybe will modified a Honda turbo one :laugh:


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

Quintin @ RAI Motorsport built a pretty nice 8v mani, get in touch with him.


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## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

heres mine i made...


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

Jay-Bee said:


> Quintin @ RAI Motorsport built a pretty nice 8v mani, get in touch with him.


Just realized he has already posted earlier in the thread lol.


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

Love the car,will call Quintin @ RAI Motorsport cool


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## fastrabbit (Jan 17, 2002)

keeping the thread alive..

everyone likes pics..


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## cubanvr6jetta (Oct 22, 2009)

i want one like that can some one make me one


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

cubanvr6jetta said:


> i want one like that can some one make me one


pm me with what youre looking for....


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## cubanvr6jetta (Oct 22, 2009)

this is all i need for a t3 garret and 38 mm wastegate


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

cubanvr6jetta said:


> this is all i need for a t3 garret and 38 mm wastegate]


PM me with your contact info and i'll get you a quote.


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

hey please send me a quote to [email protected]


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

turbobunny007 said:


> heres mine i made...


never heard of anyone building a front mount turbo manifold before..

kinda neat, but hows the spool? would probably perform better with it right off the engine..


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## MK2TDI (Feb 11, 2007)

Glegor said:


> never heard of anyone building a front mount turbo manifold before..
> 
> kinda neat, but hows the spool? would probably perform better with it right off the engine..


sidewinder style manifold. Allows equal runner length and slows spool a slight bit... Helps soften driveline shock too


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## 2OVT (Sep 11, 2009)

Capt.Dreadz said:


> Here's one i found in the mk1 forum.


haha that's Chad's car. He's the dub guy over at Full Blown Motorsports in Shakopee, MN.


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## mylesb31 (Jan 25, 2009)

my cast manifold works fine but I would love to change to a ram horn or equal length...


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

the_q_jet said:


> Jim Zornig from racecraft engineering can do it (pretty sure his screen name is "Zornig" on here). I also know of someone else who could. If you PM me i can get you in touch. I had made one for myself. Along with other mods i dyno'd 375whp/365wtq on a mustang dyno at 25psi on a Holset HX35 which used a 54mm/76mm compressor identical to that of a t3/t4 50trim. :beer:


Finally sombody that has an 8v speaks up........
FYI people talk to sombody that went from cast log to an =Length manifold..and then dyno it....the power band is much wider up top and tq does not fall off like a brick..look for jacksrabbit i believe is the screen name 500+ whp 8v
the only reason the 8v does not make power is because people are retarded and use junk parts ant tiny turbo's with outdated chip tunes...and sure you cane make the same power with one third the boost with a 20v head....but the 8v is sturdy and cheap to fix when things go wrong..lol


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

That y i started this ....................Honda Nissan .........All the Japanese cars have either ram horn or some other sort of tubular manifold.................On this Vortex there are thousand of post .........they all cant miss that cast iron junk................or are the VW turbo kit makers believe we're all retarded. On the beginning of this post a few kit maker started to make negative remarks on my post but have now become silent  .......................... On Ebay a Manifold for a Japaneses car range from $89.00-$700.00.........So what's wrong with VW KIT makers ? Please don't hide behind COST because the Japaneses aren't :laugh:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

You're problem is your looking to ebay for a valid representation of the cost of quality products and what's available to consumers.


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## The Rice Cooker (Jan 13, 2004)

I don't believe he is looking to ebay for representation from following him through this thread. It simply seems like he can't understand why it is that other engine choices 1.8T among other VW motors have off the shelf products of this sort, even worse when you look at what the aftermarket has to offer enthusiasts of other car makes. A good point is made about cost, but the main thing that I think OP should take from the discussion is that people (companies) are in the aftermarket usually to make money. Most serious 8v builders already have connections to build something or have it fabricated for their needs, and the ones who like to put something together on a budget have shown less interest in the said manifold (cost/budget), in comparison to other parts. The builders are not finding it worth the trouble to stock, since they don't move enough of the product and so it becomes discontinued. If the bottleneck of 8v is the amount of air the head can flow, a builder will remove the head and have it tuned to meet his/her needs. Usually if you are willing to remove a head have it ported, polished, valve job...etc. You may not have a problem dishing out 500 bucks for a manifold to complement your additions. 

I'll be honest though, a lot of people (and they aren't always wrong in doing so) when they want more power will just run more boost. These guys that you see making big power, are usually running standalone, and know their car inside out, and money is often the issue in most builds, but for some more than others. Many 8v enthusiasts just want something that is not too much of a headache to maintain, with parts that they can rely on to allow their car to cause them to smile when stepping on the go pedal, while putting a frown on the face of the guy in the car getting left behind.

Who knows though... on the cheap, you might be able to find one from another car brand and modify it to fit your car. Let us know :beer:


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

*Shame on u................Ebay*

Just receive from EBAY ($100.00)  Honda ram horn remember the Honda were not intended to be turbo powered............ love the collector .........removed the flange 2 of the primary pipe matches the vw head........a href="http://s1089.photobucket.com/albums/i350/acdhanraj/?action=view&current=SAM_0053.jpg" target="_blank">







[/URL]


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

Salsa GTI said:


> Finally sombody that has an 8v speaks up........
> FYI people talk to sombody that went from cast log to an =Length manifold..and then dyno it....the power band is much wider up top and tq does not fall off like a brick..look for jacksrabbit i believe is the screen name 500+ whp 8v
> the only reason the 8v does not make power is because people are retarded and use junk parts ant tiny turbo's with outdated chip tunes...and sure you cane make the same power with one third the boost with a 20v head....but the 8v is sturdy and cheap to fix when things go wrong..lol


 i still made more power than a 2.0 20v at the same boost....gotta love it


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Let's hope when it cracks it doesn't leave you stranded someplace too uncomfortable.


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Let's hope when it cracks it doesn't leave you stranded someplace too uncomfortable.


 it cracks, doesnt mean you're stranded. the biggest cause of cracking is warpage and no support. I had mine crack 3 times and it was because the header flange was warped....i spent an hour on the belt sander getting it back flat and it never cracked again.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

But you used quality metal. You're a fool if you think that crap chinese metal will hold up like a quality alloy.


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> But you used quality metal. You're a fool if you think that crap chinese metal will hold up like a quality alloy.


truth :laugh:


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Just had a honda friend of mine with a manifold of the same type had his entire wastegate section cracked and blown off. There might be a way to strength that one.. but most likely not. Try to track down defects before you throw it all back together..


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

Hey its a race car


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

So you're willing to pay $2500+ for a dry sump for an 8v, but won't pay more than $150 for turbo manifold, for only 250whp? 

I give it three laps.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

The Rice Cooker said:


> I don't believe he is looking to ebay for representation from following him through this thread. It simply seems like he can't understand why it is that other engine choices 1.8T among other VW motors have off the shelf products of this sort, even worse when you look at what the aftermarket has to offer enthusiasts of other car makes. A good point is made about cost, but the main thing that I think OP should take from the discussion is that people (companies) are in the aftermarket usually to make money. Most serious 8v builders already have connections to build something or have it fabricated for their needs, and the ones who like to put something together on a budget have shown less interest in the said manifold (cost/budget), in comparison to other parts. The builders are not finding it worth the trouble to stock, since they don't move enough of the product and so it becomes discontinued. If the bottleneck of 8v is the amount of air the head can flow, a builder will remove the head and have it tuned to meet his/her needs. Usually if you are willing to remove a head have it ported, polished, valve job...etc. You may not have a problem dishing out 500 bucks for a manifold to complement your additions.
> 
> I'll be honest though, a lot of people (and they aren't always wrong in doing so) when they want more power will just run more boost. These guys that you see making big power, are usually running standalone, and know their car inside out, and money is often the issue in most builds, but for some more than others. Many 8v enthusiasts just want something that is not too much of a headache to maintain, with parts that they can rely on to allow their car to cause them to smile when stepping on the go pedal, while putting a frown on the face of the guy in the car getting left behind.
> 
> Who knows though... on the cheap, you might be able to find one from another car brand and modify it to fit your car. Let us know :beer:


 I'll take that as gospel eace:


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

My plan is after I'm finish .............i will send it to Burns.............a few year ago they built a header for me .................. 
there is no one on this forum who is willing to give a helping hand ............but the critics are always looking on with negative comments ...............now i see why you VW people are stuck with a cast iron anchor :banghead:


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

keep this post alive with new information


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

What kind of helping hand are you looking for? There are plenty of people on this form who will build you an 8v manifold for a reasonable price.... 

Nothing tubular is availablr off the shelf because, as stated, the order volume isn't there. Don't get butthole hurt for getting called out on expecting a crap product to last.


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

that y i started this post.......................where are they............or r they waiting to see how desperate i will get


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## Sparknock (Feb 25, 2004)

turbobunny007 thats is awsome. seems to have fast responce too!!


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

16v Drakes said:


> Hey GTijoejoe go easy don't drink the cool aid......... think first


 ...but it tastes so good when it hits your lips  

If you want help in making a tube header than go a seek in the fabrication forums, there are a handful of ppl in there that can build quality stuff and help you I'm sure :thumbup:


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

Thank u


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## snobum (Dec 16, 2005)

We are starting to fab up a few pm me if all works well I'll be building based on demand


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

TIG Ninja might be able to build you one as well :thumbup:


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## cubanvr6jetta (Oct 22, 2009)

*pic pls*

can u post a pic of that honda manifold with the 8v flange to see how bad or good they match? 

i want to do the same


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

Hi from a glance, only 2 primary on one side need to be altered...............i may just cut and re welding


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## lucas13dourado (Oct 1, 2007)

turbobunny007 said:


> heres mine i made...
> http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p304/81612/IMAG0378.jpg[IMG]
> 
> [IMG]http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p304/81612/IMAG0185.jpg[IMG]
> ...


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

16v Drakes said:


> keep this post alive with new information


 First paragrapph, I agree. Second, you're dumb.


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)

*16v manifold*


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## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

lucas13dourado said:


> This is a ****ing joke...... props for doing the sidewinder, but: your exhaust goes close to coolant lines, oil lines, wiring, intake manifold, brake fluid, etc. You are a insane for not at the bare minimum wrapping that.
> 
> 8v's don't need a ramhorn mani to make the power, and it's not like everyone who owns a vw turbo's them like the jdm market people do. Demand is the only reason you can get a ramhorn for a honda and not a vw. It's like it was mentioned before, out of 50 people 1 would buy them.


Well thanks for the props..I guess.....there is no problem with everything being that close...the car drives everyday, even in the 90+ degree weather!!! The manifold spools up faster than the cast manifold and very smoothly. I've had a callaway manifold on my rabbit and a kinetic before I built this one. Big difference!! 
Being equal runners and long runners the gasses are accelerated to the turbine housing more efficiently. The exhaust pulses are not colliding to get into the turbine like the those little cast mani's, therefore more efficient spool from your turbo. Equal length manifolds will out perform a cast manifold , increase midrange, and have a higher peak HP at the same boost preset....
I wanted something different so that's why I made it like that...


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## 1slowVW (Sep 28, 2005)

turbobunny007 said:


> Well thanks for the props.


I know coming from a low post count lurker this doesn't mean much, but I've checked out everything you've posted about your set up and I must say it's one of the best things I've seen on the vortex in a while.

To the OP I'm watching with interest this honda manifold experiment, I'm about to put together a ultra low budget PG/ABA turbo and I may have to follow your lead if your experience is a positive one.


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## VR SEX (Apr 2, 2002)

there are cast stainless manifolds available for the 1.8t... i would love to see something similar for the 12v vr6 and 2.0 aba applications


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## lucas13dourado (Oct 1, 2007)

turbobunny007 said:


> Well thanks for the props..I guess.....there is no problem with everything being that close...the car drives everyday, even in the 90+ degree weather!!! The manifold spools up faster than the cast manifold and very smoothly. I've had a callaway manifold on my rabbit and a kinetic before I built this one. Big difference!!
> Being equal runners and long runners the gasses are accelerated to the turbine housing more efficiently. The exhaust pulses are not colliding to get into the turbine like the those little cast mani's, therefore more efficient spool from your turbo. Equal length manifolds will out perform a cast manifold , increase midrange, and have a higher peak HP at the same boost preset....
> I wanted something different so that's why I made it like that...


hats off, you know your ****. So you have no problems of things melting around it at all? That is crazy! 

:beer::beer:


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## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

lucas13dourado said:


> hats off, you know your ****. So you have no problems of things melting around it at all? That is crazy!
> 
> :beer::beer:


Yea nothing melted except for the throttle cable when i didnt have a bracket for it. I goes inbetween the downpipe and the manifold. There is about a 2 inch space there and i had to make a bracket for it to sit in the middle, works well now. 
The throttle cable is going to be harder now cause im almost done my short runner and dont think the vr cable is long enought to go through the same 2 in. space and reach the right side of the manifold....but as for melting everything is atleast a inch and a half away from touching something



> I know coming from a low post count lurker this doesn't mean much, but I've checked out everything you've posted about your set up and I must say it's one of the best things I've seen on the vortex in a while.


Thanks alot, I know been on here along time, i dont post much either but thanks again..


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

VR SEX said:


> there are cast stainless manifolds available for the 1.8t... i would love to see something similar for the 12v vr6 and 2.0 aba applications


There is really no reason to cast something out of stainless vs iron besides the difference in high cost for corrosion resistance


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## 16v Drakes (May 26, 2008)




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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

VR SEX said:


> there are cast stainless manifolds available for the 1.8t... i would love to see something similar for the 12v vr6 and 2.0 aba applications


i love that treadstone mani! if i ever do an atp style setup, thats whats goin in my car:thumbup:



16v Drakes said:


>


i :heart: racecars


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## MOTA BOY (Aug 21, 2007)

Video would be great!


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## JakRabit (Aug 8, 2003)

jettatech said:


> flanges and bends. IIRC my flanges were from ATP and TT. Weld els from master-car. key player was having a good tig welder which turned out to be a good friend. I spent less in a tubular mani than just ordering a cast piece. you are only limited to a cast mani if you decide not to think outside the box, have resources and time. The above piece is a nice example of taking matters into ones own hands. Going back some years....even the 16v turbo ex. manis were home built, at one time. Early "hardcore vw" guys didnt get into the 10's using off the shelf parts, they were made. Heck, if you decide to get a tubular mani, you might just have to make a decent turbo brace...some things cant be bought on a credit card, but the parts can be. then you would need a proper down pipe which would allow open or internal wastegate, how many o2 bungs, what flange 2.5 or 3" ect ect.


Amen brother


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