# Can the OEM Mann/Mahle oil filters last 10,000 mi. using good syn. oil?



## zuren (Sep 26, 2000)

I spoke to a guy who is an Amsoil dealer (and a propulsion engineer for NASA) about switching to syn. oil and what he would recommend. He made some oil and interval suggestions but didn't specify using something other than the OEM filter (that I stated I used). I'm going to email him back but I probably won't hear from him until tonight. I wanted to know if running these filters for 10k mi. is a good idea or not?
Thanks for any input


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## DJKeebler (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: Can the OEM Mann/Mahle oil filters last 10,000 mi. using good syn. oil? (zuren1cs)*

The longest I think I have gone without changing my oil and filter was about 6K miles. And that's really long for me. I usually change the oil and filter about every 3-4K miles even though I know it's overkill. It doesn't do any damage.
As far as going 10K miles, I'm sure the oil and filter could withstand that duration of use. But the filter is going to be less effective as time goes along and I don't honestly know if you'd want to risk having unwanted particles floating around. Also, it's going to depend on your mileage. If you only have 20K miles on your car, I'd say it's much safer than if you had 80K miles and done a lot of hard driving. With a higher mileage car, there's going to be more of a chance that metal shavings will be floating around in your oil. 5-6K miles is probably your best bet for engine longevity and budget.
oh, also.....it will depend on the type of oil you use. Many vortexers, myself included, swear by Mobile 1 fully synthetic. If you use good oil, you can get away with longer service durations. If you're using that stuff Jiffy Lube pours into your engine and can barely be considered safe, you should be changing oil every month.


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## zuren (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: Can the OEM Mann/Mahle oil filters last 10,000 mi. using good syn. oil? (DJKeebler)*

Based on your post, sounds like you've never heard of Amsoil before (forgive me if I'm wrong). I know a lot of guys around here use Mobil 1 (and I have no intention to start a flame war), but my research has found that Amsoil synthetic lubricants beat Mobil 1 in nearly every category that there is a test for. I'm not quoting marketing propaganda either, this is mostly 3rd party/independent lab testing. Mobil 1 is still very good oil. So to answer the last statement - Yes, I'll be using good oil (their 5w30 syn. oil is rated up to 25,000 mi. before changing, some truckers can go 50-75k mi. on one filter change and a by-pass oil filter).
I would think that an older engine (mine has 130k mi.) would produce fewer metal shavings (the bigger culprits being particulate that gets past the air filter; 5-30 microns) since everything is broken-in. I would think a newer engine would be producing more shavings due to the tighter tolerances and everything wearing-in. I also run a magnetic drain plug and it pulls some ferrous material out of the oil, but it stays pretty clean. I'm not an engineer, but I did work in a hydraulic pump factory during the summers I was in college and we had to do wear-in testing on the pumps to blow the shavings, etc. produced out before it could be shipped to the customer. I would think an automobile engine is similar, but I could be wrong.
These Mann filters (model # W 719/30) have text on them that reads, " LANGZEITFILTER 30000 KM / 2 JAHRE". 
Anyone know what that means, especially the 30k km number? I emailed Mann directly so hopefully they will respond.
Thanks










_Modified by zuren1cs at 9:23 PM 8-29-2003_


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## Bill95GL (Sep 5, 2000)

*Re: Can the OEM Mann/Mahle oil filters last 10,000 mi. using good syn. oil? (zuren1cs)*

[zuren1cs wrote: These Mann filters (model # W 719/30) have text on them that reads, " LANGZEITFILTER 30000 KM / 2 JAHRE". 
Anyone know what that means, especially the 30k km number? I emailed Mann directly so hopefully they will respond.]
I noticed the same thing when I was changing the oil on my 95 Golf two weeks ago. I'm pretty sure 2 Jarhe means "two years." I've read on rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled that oil change intervals in Europe are much longer than the ones we use in North America because of the oil (or filter?) disposal problem over there and apparently also because modern oils can actually handle that kind of mileage. Thus, 2 years and 18,000 miles between changes (for the filter anyway).


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## DJKeebler (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: Can the OEM Mann/Mahle oil filters last 10,000 mi. using good syn. oil? (zuren1cs)*

Actually, I've used both the oil and air filters made by Amsoil in my current Jetta. I wasn't impressed. The air filter left dust particles on the inside of my intake tube so that was taken out soon after it was installed and the oil filter didn't seem to be keeping the oil as clean as an OEM one so I changed that out quickly too. Now this is subjective and could be my paranoia in taking care of my car but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
I don't know about the oil because it's not readily available here in Hawaii but I've heard all the claims made by Amsoil. I guess it's a matter of preference. The Amsoil stuff is usually more expensive than Mobile 1 so I haven't found any reason to switch. If you decide to use the oil, especially if you run it for 10K miles, let us all know what you think. It would be nice to have actual test results from a major tester but the main thing is that it protects our engines. 
As for metal shavings, your theory sounds plausible. But what I learned in automotive engineering is that wear on engine internals over time will cause metal shavings to develop. This is usually because the oil in your car is not going to remain as viscous as it is when it comes out of the bottle. So as your oil gets older, it has less viscosity causing more friction which in turn causes metal shavings. This is what I learned. I could be wrong but I'd have to go shoot the professor if I find that out.


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## zuren (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: Can the OEM Mann/Mahle oil filters last 10,000 mi. using good syn. oil? (Bill95GL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bill95GL* »_[zuren1cs wrote: These Mann filters (model # W 719/30) have text on them that reads, " LANGZEITFILTER 30000 KM / 2 JAHRE". 
Anyone know what that means, especially the 30k km number? I emailed Mann directly so hopefully they will respond.]
I noticed the same thing when I was changing the oil on my 95 Golf two weeks ago. I'm pretty sure 2 Jarhe means "two years." I've read on rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled that oil change intervals in Europe are much longer than the ones we use in North America because of the oil (or filter?) disposal problem over there and apparently also because modern oils can actually handle that kind of mileage. Thus, 2 years and 18,000 miles between changes (for the filter anyway).

If this is true, that would make me very happy!!!!







I just found a German-English translation page and "jahre" does mean year, so "2 years". There was not a translation for 'LANGZEITFILTER", probably a more technical term or the english equivalent is a phrase.
That would also make sense in another regard. Mann/Mahle filters are regarded to be the best filters available (for our cars at least), probably because they are designed to be more heavy duty. If we are changing filters every 3000-5000 mi. that are designed to go 18000 mi., that is a terrible waste! I'll continue to wait for a direct response from Mann but maybe my desired 10000 mi. Amsoil/filter change schedule will work!


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## metal doc (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: Can the OEM Mann/Mahle oil filters last 10,000 mi. using good syn. oil? (zuren1cs)*

I run synthetic oil in all my cars . I go 9,000 on the oil but change the filter every 3,000 . After changing the filter my oil looks good as new . Thats my routine .

mike


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## zuren (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: Can the OEM Mann/Mahle oil filters last 10,000 mi. using good syn. oil? (DJKeebler)*

I could see that an older engine would have more wear over time since the act of "wearing" would create the metal shavings. And your comments about viscosity are correct, as oil loses its viscosity over its sevice life, the engine parts it is trying to protect will be susceptable to wear. Thus, the acclaimed slendor of synthetic oils; the synthetic pure base stocks will not break down as easily as dino or syn. blended oils. So more viscosity over a longer life at the same "abuse" level can equal longer drain intervals *PROVIDED* you can keep that oil clean through filtration. 
I just got a response back from the Mann-Hummel corporation in Germany that manufactures the Mann filters we use. I asked what the "30000 km" printed on the filter body meant:

_Quote »_Hello,
"30000 km" means, that this filter is a "Longlife-filter" to use for 
30000 km.
Only synthetic oil is to use for the 30000 km.
So don't hesiate to use this oil and this filter.
Kind regards
Manfred Blöchl
MANN+HUMMEL GMBH
Eglosheimer Str. 41
D-71636 Ludwigsburg
Germany


So I think I'm going to try it; 10,000 mi. oil change intervals using the Mann filters. I will also get a couple oil analysis kits to monitor at each 10k interval.


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## STRMTRPR (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: Can the OEM Mann/Mahle oil filters last 10,000 mi. using good syn. oil? (zuren1cs)*

30000 km is twice the manufacturer's recommended oil change inteval on my Golf (99 MK III). My owners manual specifies 15000 km, but that is with regular dino oil.
I would have no problem switching to an annual oil service schedule (I don't quite put 30000 km on the car annually), but I am curious as to how I would explain my schedule to any prospective buyer of my car who wants to see reciepts.
Doesn't matter since I plan on driving my baby into the ground.


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## QuackDuck (Feb 21, 2003)

*Re: Can the OEM Mann/Mahle oil filters last 10,000 mi. using good syn. oil? (zuren1cs)*

I use Royal Purple synthetic oil. I called their 888 number and spoke with a tech. He said that RP and most syntheric oils can go 10-12k miles between changes but oil filters must be changed every 5k miles to keep the oil "healthy."


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## zuren (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: Can the OEM Mann/Mahle oil filters last 10,000 mi. using good syn. oil? (QuackDuck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuackDuck* »_I use Royal Purple synthetic oil. I called their 888 number and spoke with a tech. He said that RP and most syntheric oils can go 10-12k miles between changes but oil filters must be changed every 5k miles to keep the oil "healthy."

That is completely dependent on the oil filter being used. If you use a crappy oil filter that can only go 3-5k mi. (fram, purolator, carquest, etc.), then you need to change it often. The quote I posted is from a representative at Mann+Hummel GMBH in Germany. If he says the filter is designed to run 30000 km, I'll believe that before an oil company who's product you will have to purchase more of due to the oil lost at each filter change.


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## QuackDuck (Feb 21, 2003)

*Re: Can the OEM Mann/Mahle oil filters last 10,000 mi. using good syn. oil? (zuren1cs)*

I'm well aware of importance of filter quality. I always use stock VW/Mann oil filters. I think next oil change I'll go with Mobil1 0W-40 instead of Royal Purple 5W-30 and I'll change the oil at 10,000 miles instead of the usual 7,500 with RP.


_Modified by QuackDuck at 11:10 AM 9-2-2003_


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## availrva (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: Can the OEM Mann/Mahle oil filters last 10,000 mi. using good syn. oil? (QuackDuck)*

my dad said he talked to a mobil 1 rep a while ago and he said that mobil one can go 25000 miles before it needs to be changed. i dont realy know the details of what was discussed, but i'd think a lot of it depends on how hard you drive the car, and how often. and also, as noted before, the filter quality is a factor in how often you change your oil. good post here, very interesting!
kyle


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## DonL (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: Can the OEM Mann/Mahle oil filters last 10,000 mi. using good syn. oil? (availrva)*

It's not the age of the oil or filter that's as much a factor, but the condition of them. You can probably "wear out" an oil in 3K miles, or make it last 20K. There's a whole lot of variables to take into account. Based on some of the oil analysis figures I've heard about, most high-quality oils and filters are very effective in their jobs. Regardless of what brand of good synthetic oil you use, knowing what kind of schmutz is in the oil is really valuable.


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## jaime.denizard (Nov 13, 2008)

Let's do some thread necromancy. Is anyone who posted in this thread still around and want to tell their stories about running oils and/or oil filters for so many miles? How did it go? Very curious!


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