# MK3 Jetta turbo pinging, stuttering problem.



## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

Hey guys thought I would see if anyone has an idea whats going on here. I have done a lot of reading but the search feature has been disabled the past few days so I am sorrt if this is a same old question as in other threads.








Heres the problem Iam having.
stuttering, pinging, sounds like dieseling. This happens at about 0 to 3 PSI on my boost gauge. I only have my turbo set up to push about 6 psi max right now.
The car did this when I had the stock injectors and a mild chip. I thought it was not getting enough fuel. Now I have 310 cc injectors and an ATP chip for 310 injectors (new). The turbo is a T3 with a .42 to 48 A/R. I also put my MAF into a 3" housing so it could handle more air. I am now thinking either it is a crappy MAF or the A/F ratio is not quite right.
I thought that I had the right set up because yesterday after I installed the 310 Injectors and the ATP chip the check engine light went off. It had been on with the previus setup. It stayed off for about 15 mins. As soon as I took the car for a test run it came on after about 5 mins of driving. I am not running any kind of FMU or stronger fuel pump at this time. Also I do not have an intercooler installed yet , just goes right into the manifold. 
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated thanks


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

The Vortech FMU in the picture has been taken out. Also intake tube is a little different.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (rayzor38)*

changing the MAF size reqires a software change...
Find out which MAF hosuing your software was written for and use that.
also try unplugging the front o2 sensor.
This will stop the ecu from tyring to keep ~14.7 afr when
you go into boost.

Jeffrey Atwood


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

Thank you I will try botht of these things.
What AFR will it run with the sensor unpluged?
Could it be a faulty MAF ? cuz car was doing the same thing with stock injectors and mild 10 hP chip?


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## nimbusmk1 (Aug 12, 2003)

Did you fix your exhaust leaks yet?


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: (nimbusmk1)*

hey how are ya, ya I got the leaks fixed up. Ended up that I had a broken flex unit as well. i bought a haevier front motor mount and that solved a few issues. I just put the vortech FMU back in the car and that seemed to help it a lot. So I think it must have been running lean. still pings a little at higher end rpm and boost levels, but I think Iam getting there







a little more tweakin and then double head gaskets and ARP studs














going for about 10 PSI on stock internels







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (rayzor38)*

You really really really should put a wideband on there. You're playing guessing games in my opinion. That ATP chip is most likely written for a stock MAF housing too. Using a larger housing changes the reading. What plugs do you have in the car?


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

I put some cooler ones in there. I cant remember off the top of my head, but I went to a VW shop that is experienced in turbos.
they are bosch silver and cooler than stock.


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

When instaling the wideband do I put a third o2 sensor in there or just use the one before the cat that is in place already. Sorry if I seem clueless, but I am fairly new to Forced induction. Thanks for the input guys


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: (rayzor38)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rayzor38* »_Thank you I will try botht of these things.
What AFR will it run with the sensor unpluged?
Could it be a faulty MAF ? cuz car was doing the same thing with stock injectors and mild 10 hP chip?

Were you using a natural aspirated chip?Timing is agressive with those.No snow in Edmonton yet?


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

The chip I had in it before the ATP was from German parts Wholesale and added about 10 HP. I swas pinging with that chip as well. Pinging is still there even witht he vortech FMU. The car seems to ping less when it is first started and taken for a run. After it waqrms up it will ping more when under boost. I guess I need to get a wide band to see what is happening. I just thought that with the 310 cc injectors and the chip that is programed for 310 cc injectors that would fix everything up. Still need to play around I guess? Snowing in Edmonton tonight ...yes. 
Crappy no more turbo testing :0(


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

bump for some more input.
i have tried unhooking the front o2 sensor and instaling the stock MAF housing still same symtoms.


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## Spencedog (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: MK3 Jetta turbo pinging, stuttering problem. (rayzor38)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rayzor38* »_
I thought that I had the right set up because yesterday after I installed the 310 Injectors and the ATP chip the check engine light went off. It had been on with the previus setup. It stayed off for about 15 mins. As soon as I took the car for a test run it came on after about 5 mins of driving. I am not running any kind of FMU or stronger fuel pump at this time. Also I do not have an intercooler installed yet , just goes right into the manifold. 
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated thanks
























Get it scanned... You may have a bad knock sensor


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

THANKS I WILL TRY THAT.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (rayzor38)*

Check your spark plug gaps too. 
A wideband has its own sensor. So yes, you would install a third O2 sensor. It's expensive, but worth it. It could save your motor. At least try to find someone to rent or lend you one. Do your tuning, then take it out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

thank you fro the input guys.


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## nimbusmk1 (Aug 12, 2003)

If it pings more when hot then cold then you may be in need of a intercooler. I have a extra intercooler if you are interested.


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

I have an intercooler ,but have not installeed it yet. I am thinking that it is running lean at higher boost levels because when tht ecar is cold doesnt the ECU send more fuel to engine?
Then when it warms up a little the fuel is cut back somewhat......does that sound right?
thakns


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

bump for input :0)


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: (rayzor38)*

I HAVE BEEN DOING A LOT OF SEARCHING AND READING.
IT SEEMS THAT THERE COULD BE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT MAY BE CAUSING THE PINGING. 
I UNPLUGED THE MAF TODAY AND IT SEEMS TO RUN EVEN BETTER WITH IT UNHOOKED.








SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? AM I RUNNING TO RICH WITH IT PLUGGED IN? DOES A MAF CAUSE MORE FUEL TO BE DUMPED INTO THE ENGINE WHEN IT SENCES HIGHER VOLUMES OF AIR?








PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS CONFUSION


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: (rayzor38)*

changed the MAF housing back to stock, pings less but bucks more.








This weekend I will get the intercooler in there. Starion intercooler.
hopefully that will help some. I am not sure if I need to stack headgaskets for such low boost levels








doesnt a stock ABA only have like 9.0:1 comp ratio ??? (depending on the year) earlier was 9.6:1 maybe because of the pre 1995 forged internals on 2.0 MK3 
This seems on the low side of stock comp ratios. 
it seems that a lot of guys with MK3 2.0 8v cars have run up to 10 psi without a problem. Iam only at about 5 to 6 PSI max right now.
Would a bad knock sensor cause me problems like Iam haveing?[/B








Maybe this will help it stop bucking , pinging , and fartin around








If anyone ahs any great ideas please feel free to let me in on it 
thank s guys.


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

TTT


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (Agtronic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Agtronic* »_Check your spark plug gaps too. 
A wideband has its own sensor. So yes, you would install a third O2 sensor. It's expensive, but worth it. It could save your motor. At least try to find someone to rent or lend you one. Do your tuning, then take it out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

depeding on what kind of wideband it is, if the wideband also has a narrowband output you can keep one stock o2 with the wideband o2
wideband is good advice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: (GTijoejoe)*

Well I have installed the intercooler and it still stutters








boost levels seem to be lower as well. I have lost pressure. I guess I need to adjust the internal wastegate to open later. 
I am also getting a fluttering noise when I let off the throttle. I am wondering if this is due to placement of BOV.








I am going to put an ATP manifold on there. The custom one I bought is developing leaks because of crappy workmanship.
Any input is appreciated . Thanks


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## Spencedog (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: (rayzor38)*

Did you ever get your ecu scanned????


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

no , I never did. i guess I should do that. I was doing some reading and for some reason i ruled the knock sensor out. But I should get it scanned and I will. Thanks for input spencedog


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: (rayzor38)*

well I took car in , got it scanned. emisions code came up. as well as missfire code. Did not have even one knock sensor code. 
I have a new problem now as well......tranny








I was driving it hard on low boost of about 3 psi and heard a pop.
I thought it was an intercooler pipe. so i slapped it in Nuetral and coasted along. I could hear click click click coming from the drive axle or tranny. the car makes the noise with clutch in or out or in nuetral or in any gear.
It only makes the noise when not under load, any ideas would be appreciated. thanks


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## MDTurborocco (Aug 24, 2003)

*Re: (rayzor38)*








Hope your not mechanically challenged.


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## nimbusmk1 (Aug 12, 2003)

It is really hard to say what the noise is without seeing the car. How come you never came to my work to have it scanned?


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## zornig (May 12, 2001)

*Re: (nimbusmk1)*

I would say it has something to do with the large crack you have in the manifold. You can see it in the pics.
HTH


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## turbojeta3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: (zornig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zornig* »_I would say it has something to do with the large crack you have in the manifold. You can see it in the pics.
HTH


good eyes


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (rayzor38)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rayzor38* »_I could hear click click click coming from the drive axle or tranny. the car makes the noise with clutch in or out or in nuetral or in any gear.
It only makes the noise when not under load, any ideas would be appreciated. thanks

That's probably just the ticking of the time bomb


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## MDTurborocco (Aug 24, 2003)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

If it was a crack in the manifold it would get louder under a load. Since you have all your gears it has to be your diff. that exploded.


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

no it isnt the crack in the manifold. You can feel the time bomb ticking in the diff definatley.
I never went to your shop nimbusMK1 just because of when and where I was in the city today. I had to go to Alberta Honda this morning and Richard said he could get me right in. Didnt even charge me for the scan.
nothing against your shop at all.....you guys rock , and I have been very happy with all of the staff.
Anyway about the grinding clicking noise. Ya I guess I will have to tear it down to tell for sure, hope it doesnt cost me a whole damn tranny


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: (rayzor38)*

Yes , I know that Manifold hardly warrants a photo. It truly is one fugly piece of work. I didnt do it , I bought it from someone like that site unseen. Lesson learned








I just purchased an ATP manifold that should clean things up a bit.
Yes I do believe it is the diff that blew up. How likley do you think it is that I can save the trans?








I was looking at putting a nut bolt kit in there, but I guess I will need to wait till I tear it apart to see if its worth it.
I checked the tranny code and it is says that the spider gear bolt does have the retaining clips on it , so the chance of it being that is less I would think. I cant believe there is no snow here yet!!!!






















Each day that passes is one day less of winter http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: (rayzor38)*

Well I pulled the tranny today and ripped it apart. Looks like I lost three of the rivets the hold the main gear on. It looks kind of wierd because on all three rivets only one side of them fell of into the gearbox and the other sides are still on the gear.
Anyway it looks as if it will be salvageable. I will need a new main gear. i am thinking that I should get a bolt kit to strengthen that part up. has anybody used one of these bolt kits on their tranny?
Thanks for all of the input


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (rayzor38)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rayzor38* »_Well I pulled the tranny today and ripped it apart. Looks like I lost three of the rivets the hold the main gear on. It looks kind of weird because on all three rivets only one side of them fell of into the gearbox and the other sides are still on the gear.
Anyway it looks as if it will be salvageable. I will need a new main gear. i am thinking that I should get a bolt kit to strengthen that part up. has anybody used one of these bolt kits on their tranny?
Thanks for all of the input

You are lucky......there is not much room in the diff area for loose objects. It usually leads to the holey trans case.
Ok that said. spend the 40 bucks for the bolt kit. It's money well spent. Yes I have one in mine.
Oh And the reason the rest of the rivet stayed after the head sheared off is ......well because they are rivet's...meaning they are placed into the diff and ring gear and then pressed to form the head on the other side. Also removing any clearance in the hole. They need to be knocked out with a punch after drilling off the heads.
Hope that helps. Sorry my grammar is bad


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

where did you purchace your bolt kit from?
I saw one for 40 through Techtonics Tuning.
what kind of bosst are you running on yours?
thanks for the input.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (rayzor38)*

That's where I got it from








Not boosting yet.......gathering funds and parts at the moment.
The plan is, Mostly ATP stuff. IE exaust manafold-Tial external wastgate-downpipe-innercooler piping-bypass valve and hoses. A T3-T4 turbo 440cc injectors. An innercooler from sombody other than ATP or big name brands, a wide band for tuning and probably a Techtonics chip and a piggyback setup.......or I may go stand alone....the jury is still out on that part. but thats how i'm going. My goal at the moment is for 220 WHP without opening the engine or lowering the compression. It's a 99 2.0 with 21,000 on it at the moment. I have already installed the bolt kit and a lightned flywheel and new clutch and pressure plate.
It's all in the tuning








Till I blow it up.....then who knows.
Oh and it's in this..........



























_Modified by Salsa GTI at 11:27 PM 11-29-2004_


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

Wow , nice project.







You must have spent hours and hours of wrench pulling on that one. You must have had the whole dash panel out and replaced the wiring to put in a 1999 2.0 in a 1988 GTI.
Well I got my transmission back together and back in the car. It works good now. I have been low on funds and was not able to buy a bolt kit for the differential. 
We now have snow on the ground here, and there is not much sense in putting funds into it right now. Cant test it anyway on the snow.
I am thinking of buying a Quaife Diff and putting it in next spring.
Anyone using these on a boosted car?


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (rayzor38)*

yes the whole car is 99 Jetta Wolfsburg.......








Wiring , dash consol, heater box ac, rad and fans, fuel tank with lines, brakes and brake lines........yadda yadda...


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

Somebody likes to play http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif very cool project
cant wait to hear about the turbo going in it. 
I wish I cuold get mine tuned up propper. still stutters.at about 3 psi 
iam sure I willget it some day, but like i said it snowed a bunch here so it isnt much fun driving now http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
maybe santa will bring me some parts


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: (rayzor38)*

Well i managed to get my tranny all back together after replacing the crown gear. Found a good used one for 125 bucks seems to work well.
I am planning on pulling it apart next spring and putting an LSD in there. I was thinking of a Quaife diff.








Anyone used one of these? I am also still having the bucking problem still. I am not to sure what the heck is going on there? I had a few codes come up. 
What are people doing for the emisions components of the system?
How do you hook them up. I am talking about the ones on the intake.
like the wire that hooks up to the crank gas returning into the intake system. ( not hooked up right now)
Also not hooke dup is one vacume line that looks as though it goes to some sort of emissions thing in the passenger side fender well.
it says something about 1 psi on it or something?
I think that I had a code thrown because of this








anyway yes I am still getting a stuttering problem


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## nimbusmk1 (Aug 12, 2003)

Standalone my man. Problem solved.


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (nimbusmk1)*

There are other options besided standalone.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (KOOTER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KOOTER* »_There are other options besided standalone.

As soon as anybody asks a question about trouble on a boosted car, Everybody and his mother automatically yells out Standalone







For that they should all stand in the corner wearing a dunce cap. Not everybody wants or more importantly needs standalone.
Ok end of rant


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## rayzor38 (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

Stand alone is probably a good solution , however the costs are kind of high arnt they?
I have tried different things on this car and am open to other sugestions as well. I am still waiting on a new ATP manifold I purchased froma fellow vortexer.
my setup is Garrett T3 .42 A/R internal waste gate, 310 cc injectors , ATP chip for 310cc turbo application, #6 silver tip bosch plugs, wire set, BOV, custom manifold ( ugly welding )
I am wondering about what options I may try next?
Feeel free to give your oppinion, I am open to sugestions








Thanks everyone for your input http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (rayzor38)*

Call Techtonics or C2 for a real chip


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

http://www.perfectpower.com/products/smt6.asp
http://forum.vwsport.com/viewforum.php?f=35


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