# VW Individual Atelier at the Transparent Factory in Dresden



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*VW Individual Atelier at the Glass Factory in Dresden*

There has been some discussion and inquiry on the forum this week from folks who would like to order a Phaeton built to their personal specifications. Here are a few photos of the _atelier_ (design studio) at the Transparent Factory in Dresden. If a Phaeton purchaser makes a trip to Dresden to visit the atelier, this is a bit of what they will see.
A Customer Service manager will be assigned to the purchaser, to offer assistance and recommendations concerning custom exterior colour, interior colour, and optional equipment choices. Once the final decisions are made, the information is then faxed back to the North American 'home dealer', and the order is placed by that dealer.
Michael
*VW Individual Atelier*


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## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: VW Individual Atelier at the Glass Factory in Dresden (PanEuropean)*

Very Classy







my own opinion this is as good as Bentley perhaps better.
Thanks for the pictures Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: VW Individual Atelier at the Glass Factory in Dresden (phaeton)*

Fred,
Sounds like we all need to pitch in and give you tickets to Dresden. Your personalized Phaeton is right there waiting for your choosing. Michael, thanks for the great photos as that factory is truly awesome. I would like to go this summer if possible. Email me when and if you go once the weather breaks.
David


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: VW Individual Atelier at the Glass Factory in Dresden (dcowan699)*

Hi David:
OK, will do. Right now I am still hoping to get back to Geneva before the car show ends on March 14th. *There is a new version of a Phaeton with a different badge on it being presented there.* 
Michael


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## GTI2lo (Dec 19, 1999)

*Re: VW Individual Atelier at the Glass Factory in Dresden (PanEuropean)*

We have a customer right now at the dealer looking for the individual options. Your info is much appreciated Micheal. Thanks for the brochures too! Great to look at too bad I can't reas German.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: VW Individual Atelier at the Glass Factory in Dresden (GTI2lo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI2lo* »_Great to look at, too bad I can't read German.

I can, so if you are unsure of anything or need a translation, just phone me. James Setzer has my phone number.
Michael


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## GTI2lo (Dec 19, 1999)

*Re: VW Individual Atelier at the Glass Factory in Dresden (PanEuropean)*

Got anything on the Touareg? My Dad's got one and I love that dark greyish wood trim!!














That would really interest me!


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## viscount (Jan 2, 2005)

*Re: VW Individual Atelier at the Glass Factory in Dresden (PanEuropean)*

Pray tell us more please!







What have you heard about the new badge? That should be really interesting. I could not find any details on the site: http://www.salon-auto.ch/en/
Oh, there will be a VW Indiv. W12 Toureg!








Ed.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: VW Individual Atelier at the Glass Factory in Dresden (viscount)*


_Quote, originally posted by *viscount* »_What have you heard about the new badge? 

Well, it's basically just a 4 door W12 Phaeton, except it has a slightly different skin on the outside of it, and a different nameplate on each end. But other than that, there's nothing much different about it. Here's a link to an existing thread, with all sorts of pictures, ooohs and ahhhs: 2005 Bentley 4 Door Sedan - Photos, Discussion


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## viscount (Jan 2, 2005)

*Re: VW Individual Atelier at the Glass Factory in Dresden (PanEuropean)*

Well now...






















I was forgetting!!!
Ed.


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## kmartin (Mar 18, 2005)

*VW Individual*

I was told yesterday that VW Individual items can not be ordered on any cars delivered to the US. I checked with the 800 Phaeton number and they confirmed this. I was under the impression that we could order Individual options - except the ones that are not legal (e.g. dual xenon headlamps)...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: VW Individual (kmartin)*









That is news to me. I have always been under the same impression as you - in fact, as I have mentioned earlier, I very nearly bought an 'individual' spec Phaeton. I wonder if this is a policy change?
I will try to make some inquiries.
Michael


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## kmartin (Mar 18, 2005)

Michael,
I called VW of American again and they told me that we can not get any of the Individual stuff in America. I am about to order a build to order - since I can't get the 17" wheels swapped for the 18s for the unit they have coming in...


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## DCubed (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (kmartin)*

well you probably can by going to europe and importing them back, but that might be too time consuming. I think VW individual needs to be here in the US, if we are gonna play with the big boys, we need to have the same programs (euro deliv, individual program) so we can stand out and really allow these cars to be an extension of someones imagination, if I ever could afford one of these cars, I would like the ability to have some things put to my taste, or more options. but its vw and its what we have to deal with.


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## kmartin (Mar 18, 2005)

I have another call into the Phaeton number. I would really like one or two of the Individual options. I don't see what the big deal is - not like the fridge is going to be illegal here in the us...
Waiting on them now. I have to put my order in today or something....I am being told by the dealer that they have to do it today for allocation....


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (kmartin)*

I am really, really saddened by the way the North American importer (VW in Auburn Hills) is handling the whole issue of custom orders and selection of options from the VW Individual prospectus.
When VW of NA first introduced the Phaeton in the fall of 2003, they held a series of dealer training and orientation sessions around the country to explain how they felt the Phaeton should be marketed. Some of the Phaeton sales professionals who participate here on the forum might remember it, although the information presented was not disseminated to the buying public.
I'm going to quote some of VW of North America's own written words about Phaeton marketing, from the little brochures that were given out to the Phaeton dealers at those product launch presentations:
_"*Bespoke Purchase Process*
- Choosing traditional palette of equipment options
- Configuring with a range of special order equipment
- Color & Trim choices: from classic to couture
Custom orders: allow 9 weeks for delivery
Can you spot-deliver* a Phaeton? Please don't..."_
(*spot-deliver is presumed by me to mean sell one off the lot)
All the above are exact, direct quotes from VW's philosophy statement to the dealers. Why are they not facilitating what appears to be a well thought out way of selling Phaetons? For goodness sake, these cars are not Golf CL's.
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 6:49 PM 3-24-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (kmartin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kmartin* »_ I have to put my order in today or something....I am being told by the dealer that they have to do it today for allocation....

Uh, I hate to say this, but that doesn't sound too credible to me. I suggest you resist any pressure to buy the car in a hurry.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (kmartin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kmartin* »_...not like the fridge is going to be illegal here in the USA...


Just for the record - AFIK, the fridge is only available on the 4 seat Phaetons. It is not available on the 5 seat ones.


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
Uh, I hate to say this, but that doesn't sound too credible to me. I suggest you resist any pressure to buy the car in a hurry.
Michael

There are plenty of Phaeton's around or being built.
Dealers typically place orders for cars at certain times. Giving the dealer the benefit of the doubt what he was probably indicating is that he was placing his allocation order with the district sale manager and wanted to know if you wanted one of the Phaeton slots. The dealer will have another allocation each month because that is the way manufactures and dealers determine how many cars to build and how many are selling. Also, this is typically how the district sales manger earns part of his salary. Key: *(The nicer your owner or sales manager is to the district sales manager the better chance you have of getting that special car.)*
I'm sure vwguild could add more up to date info then I have since he is currently in the business. But, the way cars are typically imported is through an importer and then the dealers get allocated cars from what the importer has agreed to bring in from the factory.
If there is a special order then one of the allocated slots is taken up by the special order. That is why dealers sometimes do not want to special order a car that is too different than the norm because they might get stuck with it and they loose a slot for a model that will sell faster. It's all about the floor plan cost and inventory control.
Furthermore, a dealer can reduce their cost by selling a certain number of cars. Lets say for every 10 cars the dealer sells he gets an extra $200 back from VW as an incentive on each of those cars. Therefore, if the dealer sells you the car for $200 over invoice and sells 10 cars he gets an extra $200 back from VW which gives him a profit of $400 per car. This is one way that VW gets rid of the old style models such as the Jetta, etc. Also, I believe, VW has a 2% kickback on MSRP once the dealer hits certain numbers. *(This is the way most Auto Manufacture's operate. I'm only using VW because were in the Phaeton forum)*
Sometimes that money is passed along to the consumer in the form of reduced lease payments or added option with no charge or the dealer may keep it.
The dealer is an independent business man or women and therefore, needs to make a profit in order to stay in business.
Hope this is helpful.


_Modified by rmg2 at 5:41 AM 3-25-2005_


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## kmartin (Mar 18, 2005)

I am all for the dealership making a profit. My point is that I don't want to be told fairy tales (e.g. how the 18" wheels would not fit on a car that came from the factory with 17" wheels).
At this point, I was more than willing to wait the 14 weeks and I was doing the 4 seater - wanted the fridge for my fathers meds - but I needed to make a decision by end of business yesterday. After talking to the VW people directly - I realized that if I was going to be pushed to buy a car (which I really want - don't really need today) I would rather push back and wait until the 06. 
I felt like they had a car with 99.9% of what I wanted (every option except the 18" wheels) but since it was not policy to swap them - I was being made to wait 14 weeks. On top of that, I would be ordering a "special" order which was 99.9% of what was already on the way to the port. This is not right. 
I have just booked a trip to Europe for May 9th though June 10th. I spoke with VW last night and plan on making the trip to the factory the last few days of my trip. I am waiting for a call with the specifics - so I can figure out how to get from Frankfurt to Dresden - not sure if it makes sense to drive it or fly over. (Any suggestions - welcome). 
My plan at that point is to order the 2006 at that time and arrange for them to work with my dealer to make it happen. The only thing that concerns me is the pricing - I don't want to pay more than the current lease. 
We will see where this goes. In any case, I hear what you are saying about giving the dealer the benefit of the doubt - and I have been doing that. Of course that is before I was told that the difference between the 17" and 18" was done for gas milage ;-)
The dealer does not know anything about the car - and this is the 3rd dealer that I have gone to. VW needs to work on the dealer channel. A person buying an 80+ car does not want to deal with the pressure close - which is what was happening yesterday. A person buying an 80+ car wants to be treated with respect and not be told fairy tails. 
Just my 2 cents worth. One more thing, I think that they are making more than 200 per car - and they are not selling the car at invoice. The car is selling below sticker - but I think that it is selling above invoice. 
This is the same dealer that has the 450K mercedes benz with the gullwing doors on the showroom floor - talk about floor planning and special orders. 
I have already been approved by VW credit for the deal - I would have taken the one on the way - provided they swapped the wheels at no charge. Now I will be waiting - makes no sense to me - but I think that I would be happier with the 06.


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: (kmartin)*

Hi kmartin,
I feel and hear your pain.








On my post above I was not trying to take sides in your purchase but only trying to give some insight on my understanding of how the dealership ordering process works. Sorry if it was not clear.
In addition, the numbers I used were for example only. Sorry for any confusion.
The profit comment was included only to alert you to the fact that when dealers get incentives from the factory they may or may not pass them along to the consumer and not that they need to make a big profit on your particular purchase.
Regarding your visit to Germany, Michael our moderator could help you. He has suggested to me to drive from Frankfurt to Dresden.
Regarding the 17" vs. the 18" tires giving you better gas mileage. I guess that would technically be true if the 17" tire was narrower than the 18" tire. Less road contact results in less friction thus higher mileage, or something to that effect.
Is the dealership a multi-point dealer? If so that may be why they have an SLR on the floor? If so then that could also explain some of the ignorance they have regarding the Phaeton. Maybe they have a built in bias against the Phaeton. What's new? 
In either case it does not excuse the fairy tails they are telling you. 18" wheels will fit fine on the Phaeton. They were considered a N/C option in '04. The 18" are now standard in '05 but for N/C you can drop down to 17".
Keep posting as I know VW does read this board. They need to be aware of how their dealers are performing. Unfortunately, your experience has been shared by a few others on this forum who have purchased the Phaeton in spite of the dealer. 
If you were here in So. CA I'd refer you to my Sales Mgr and I know you'd be happy.








The car is worth it.


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## kmartin (Mar 18, 2005)

I just did an entire quick reply and did not realize that I was not logged in - so I lost about 10 minutes of work ;-)
I would like to thank everyone here for the support. I appreciate everyone taking the time to help me join the family. 
Another example, the dealer told me that scheduled maintenance was not included with the Phaeton. I told them that it was. They called me back and told me that it was. How many deals vs. BMW and Audi did they lose because they did not have the basics down.
VW should require them to open a Phaeton section - with a seperate area where Phaeton customers can look at the car without having to deal with the rest of the VW dealership. My ideal model would look like this:
a) You would meet with a Phaeton expert who would help you select a car to your specs or..
b) You could spec your own car on the internet and talk to someone at VW to assist you with the creation of your car or
c) You could go visit the factory to spec out your car
The delivery would be made in this special section of the VW dealership, you could fill out your paperwork, learn about the car, etc. You don't have to spend a lot of money to create buzz - look at Scion. Right now there are too many areas of the current sales and service processes that allows for people to drop out and buy another brand. 
Everyone here knows that Lexus is Toyota. The problem is not that VW can not create a car that is better than Lexus - the problem is that the dealer channel that supports VW is not as tuned into the demographic that would be buying a Phaeton. The Phaeton is going to be leased more than bought. Having more transparancy into the financial aspects of buying a Phaeton. 
I would be more interested to know that if I bought a Phaeton today, in 3 years - VW was going to take care of me and put me into another Phaeton with no fuss and muss. 
All service for the Phaeton would be handled by this special section of the dealership - you would make your service appointments via this area and you would get a Phaeton loaner. VWofA needs to force dealers that want to sell the car to offer the Phaeton loaner. It costs more - but it makes a statement. The statement should be that we are going to take care of you - not that we are going to let our dealers treat you like you bought a jetta - and since we are VWoA - we can't control how they treat you. 
Lexus provided financial incentives and giant carrots to make their dealers adopt the better sales and service processes. VW needs to find a few dealers - a few in each area - and lock out the rest. Make it financially rewarding to sell and service the phaeton - when they are making money - they will treat you better. 
Right now, there is no financial incentives to make them better dealers - there are financial incentives to move cars. At the end of the day - the same things happens - cars get sold. But with the first model - customers are happy. 
My mentor purchased a Phaeton 12Cyl last year in Conn. He loved the car but had service issues where he was being treated poorly. He sold the car at a loss (he got 60K from the audi dealership) and now has a short wheelbase A8. He loves the A8 - and said he thought that the Phaeton was a great car - the dealship was terrible. 
K


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: (kmartin)*

Hi kmartin,
What you have suggested is about 80% of what Maserati is doing for the new Q-Port launch.
I've mentioned here before that VW should adopt much of the Maserati's business sales model. Personalization and individual attention. 
Better yet, VW should hire a few key people in each region to go to potential clients office's or home's with all the leather, wood, options and large painted metal pieces showing the colors, etc and have them order the car there. Of course the rep would be driving a Phaeton with nearly all the options available and offer the potential client a test drive as well as a through presentation of the features. The rep could have a wireless laptop or PDA that could be used to send the order straight to Dresden with the delivery to the Phaeton center closet to the client. A deposit from the client could be wired from the client 's bank on the spot.
Talk about buzz. I guarantee that if VW had this type of service and the exclusivity that you mentioned, people would be all over this car and they would not have to discount the heck out it to move it.
You're the target market for the Phaeton and I'd hate to see you not purchase one.
Regarding other brands I can assure you that they all have dealers that under perform. You just happen to hitting the tri-fecta.


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## kmartin (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (rmg2)*

It is funny you mentioned the Q-port. It is like you are reading my mind. That is the other car that I am considering. I like the fact that you can customize - but the pricing can be a bit crazy - for example the wood trays on the back of the front seats are 2K - which is a bit much in my opinion.
I wonder if VW really listens to what goes on here. I am sure that they know tht they have a very weak channel and that they need to do something to make it better. Maybe they can do what Apple did (before they opened their own stores) and hire Apple specialists to sit at Compusa and other dealers to ensure that the products were well represented - even in a sea of Windows PCs. 
Maybe the outbound sales force idea that you came up with - makes sense. They could telemarket to the stealth wealth by getting the lists of dwell magazine, etc. and call to make no pressure appointments. Kind of like what happens in Japan when you buy a car. The fact that the car dealers sit in their ivory towers - and never get out to actually visit a customer, I find that strange. 
The channel should add value or it should be replaced....


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

VW does read the forums on a fairly regular basis; in fact I'm just off a 7 month in dealer training project for the Phaeton and Touareg. In my travels throughout the Northeast Region I have met several Phaeton Specialists that are well verse in the vehicle. Unfortunately, my territory did not include any stores in your area, so I am unable to make a recommendation. 
While European delivery is not an option at this time, the staff in Dresden is delighted to meet owners and enthusiasts.


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: (kmartin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kmartin* »_It is funny you mentioned the Q-port. It is like you are reading my mind. That is the other car that I am considering. I like the fact that you can customize - but the pricing can be a bit crazy - for example the wood trays on the back of the front seats are 2K - which is a bit much in my opinion.
I wonder if VW really listens to what goes on here. I am sure that they know tht they have a very weak channel and that they need to do something to make it better. Maybe they can do what Apple did (before they opened their own stores) and hire Apple specialists to sit at Compusa and other dealers to ensure that the products were well represented - even in a sea of Windows PCs. 
Maybe the outbound sales force idea that you came up with - makes sense. They could telemarket to the stealth wealth by getting the lists of dwell magazine, etc. and call to make no pressure appointments. Kind of like what happens in Japan when you buy a car. The fact that the car dealers sit in their ivory towers - and never get out to actually visit a customer, I find that strange. 
The channel should add value or it should be replaced....

I liked that last sentence. I agree.
Not a bad thought emulating Apple. Apple is the computer for the people and VW makes cars for the people. Seems like a great partnership opportunity. As Apple would say, Think Different. I could see some real synergy with some serious cross promotion with Apple and VW.
Hopefully you'll somehow end up with the Phaeton.
Regarding the Maserati, I agree that they are a little on the pricey side in their cost for option. I think they get $1495 for the FT comfort seats(massage/AC/Vented) and another $1495 for the rear ones.
I'm not real fond of the wood placement on the doors. Because it is located so low on the panels you can not see or enjoy the look of it while in the car with other people.
I do like the option of haveing a real leather headliner, though.
I think their Nav is CD based and very similar to the Phaetons. I believe there was some cross develpment a few years ago before the split up between Maserati and VW/Audi.
If I did not need the room in the back seat area for clients I would probably go with the Q-Port. You can really customize the heck out of it. 
I see the Q-Port as more of a competitior to the M5 than the Phaeton/S Class or 7 series. There's nothing like haveing the transaxle in the rear. Gives the car a whole different feel.
I do like the way Italian cars perform, in general.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

I read the VW was trying to do a deal with Maserati to get that trans axle for a Phaeton or for the 'C' project. Audi is unhappy about it as I recall.


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_I read the VW was trying to do a deal with Maserati to get that trans axle for a Phaeton or for the 'C' project. Audi is unhappy about it as I recall.

Last I heard the relationship soured.
My understanding is that the Phaeton (higher-end leather) and Maserati is the same leather. 
VW/Audi was supposed to help Maserati with an SUV type vehicle, ala Q7 Audi and AWD in exchange for the tran-axle and other goodies.
They were to develop the trans-axle to work with the Quattro or something to that effect. Don't recall all the details.


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## kmartin (Mar 18, 2005)

In each case, I dealt with the Phaeton specialist in the dealer. I have tickets for Europe that allow me three days in Germany - I am waiting for someone from VW to contact me today so that I can arrange the trip from Frankfurt to Dresden. 
I heard that the Maserati and VW relationship soured also. I think that the leather (from the UK Phaeton site) is Poltrona Frau - which is a high end Italian Leather/Furniture company. They make some nice home furnishings.
I did not know that Castro designed the seats - I thought it was Che that did all the interior work ;-)
K


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (kmartin)*

K, Enjoy yourself in Dresden! What a fantasy trip to a different world where Phaeton is king! 
Be sure to ask them about the Castro thing. Might save a few bucks if they can out-source some upholstery work to Cuba and import some good cigars!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted.

Michael


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