# P0106, P0507 - more PCV / MAP issues



## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

*delete*

goodbye


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Hello all,
> 
> My apologies for starting another PCV related thread - I thought it might be easier to keep things organized. A bunch of us 2.5 folks seem to be having similar issues, so if I manage to get this solved, hopefully this might help someone else. Here's what has happened so far with my 2010 Jetta 2.5 CBT 5 speed:
> 
> ...


Jim, I would take a look at your Throttle Body sensors G187 and G188 (I will be doing the same next week). 

I will add to this my experience:

1. Got P0106, P2187 and P2188 + hesitation at low speeds. Car is running rich on long and short term fuel trims.
2. Cleaned MAP sensor, TB and inside intake manifold, issue persisted
3. Replaced MAP and PCV with Dorman kit. Issue persisted
4. Replaced MAP again and replaced valve cover with OEM parts. Cleaned TB and intake manifold again. Issue persisted.
5. Ordered VAG Scanner to diagnose possible TB issues on sensors G187 and G188. Will have an update late next week.

So far there are multiple possible fixes:

1. Map/intake manifold cleaning
2. Valve Cover Replacement
3. MAP replacement
4. TB Replacement
5. CTS Replacement


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi Kieran,

Thank you for your reply and your suggestions. That is interesting about the throttle-body sensors. Unfortunately I don't own a VCDS, but I may order one soon, or the ECS scan tool that supposedly has similar capabilities. 

The main piece of evidence that is pointing me toward the PCV system is that my MAP and plenum continued to be covered with oil following my first diaphragm replacement. After changing it a second time, P0106 returned - I'm going to check this weekend to see if there is oil again in the plenum. If there is only a little bit, it might be residual oil (as I did not clean the PCV tube) - in which case I'll clean everything and see if the code returns. If it looks like there's lots of oil, I may just order the replacement valve cover. 

edit: following the 2nd diaphragm change, I only experienced the high / erratic idle once, setting P0507 once again. But the fact that it happened makes me suspect the PCV is still not sealing correctly even with the new diaphragm. However crankcase vacuum seems reasonable, which is confusing. My theory right now is that my PCV valve is intermittently allowing too much vacuum in the crank-case. 

May I ask - did you have oil in your plenum and on the MAP?


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Hi Kieran,
> 
> Thank you for your reply and your suggestions. That is interesting about the throttle-body sensors. Unfortunately I don't own a VCDS, but I may order one soon, or the ECS scan tool that supposedly has similar capabilities.
> 
> ...


Yes I did. Each time I pulled it apart I had oil on the MAP and in the plenum. It is somewhat normal for PCV system to introduce oil into the intake. Vacuum draws oil vapors into the plenum and in turn cling to the surfaces, but the fact the MAP sits at the BOTTOM om the intake manifold is the issue IMO. Even with a catch can installed, oil will still get through into the intake manifold. Even with my new valve cover/PCV I will guarantee I will have oil residue again.

This is the VAG scanner I just ordered:

https://www.amazon.ca/Foxwell-Diagnosis-Professional-Advanced-Functions/dp/B016ZCUSE4/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1508772751&sr=1-2&keywords=foxwell+nt510+vw


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

Quick Update:

I get this code EVERY time I drive into work, and back home. So twice a day 5 times a week.

Today, the temperature outside was much colder than it has been previously, and I did not receive the code or symptoms driving in to work. I will see what happens on the drive home after work.

It's supposed to be around -10*C all week, so this will be interesting. 

VAG Scanner arrives Wednesday, so will scan and update by end of week as well.

As a side note, this car is stressing me the f**k out. I've buried ~$1000 into it to try and fix this issue to no avail. If this scan doesn't help, I am back at the beginning which is really gonna piss me off.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi Kieran,

Thank you for the information and the link to the scanner you ordered. That's interesting about the scanner - I have been thinking about VCDS for a while but maybe this is a good alternative. I'm sorry to hear you are continuing to have issues - I feel your pain. It is frustrating, isn't it!

About the oil in the plenum and on the MAP - I agree with you that a certain amount of oil vapor is unavoidable, but I am not sure what amount is considered normal. I have not had a chance to remove the throttle body and MAP again, but I have cleared the code a few times now and it comes back quickly (within 30 mins of driving usually).

This is also causing me stress, and I don't have a lot of time these days to mess around. I just ordered an OEM valve cover assembly - it's a bit of a gamble but I'm hoping that solves the oil vs. MAP issue. We'll see - I'll keep you posted. That is pretty frustrating about all the cash. I'm not too far in cash wise, but I have spent a lot of time on it. I've replaced my diaphragm twice now, and cleaned the plenum and MAP maybe 5 times or so now. If I finally give up and go to the dealership for help, I'll make sure to update this thread with whatever they find. Hopefully we'll be able to figure this out.

That's interesting about the cold weather - I wonder if the oil weight has something to do with it? Someone else suggested to me that I might be running the wrong oil, but I am going by the book: 0W40 meeting VW spec 502.00. Anyway, it is getting colder in my part of Ontario as well - it will be interesting to see if that seems to have an effect.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Hi Kieran,
> 
> Thank you for the information and the link to the scanner you ordered. That's interesting about the scanner - I have been thinking about VCDS for a while but maybe this is a good alternative. I'm sorry to hear you are continuing to have issues - I feel your pain. It is frustrating, isn't it!
> 
> ...


Good luck with the Valve Cover - I hope it is the fix for you.

Have you checked your oil lately? I checked mine and it stinks a bit of gasoline. I would be curious if yours has any smell to it


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

Another day, and no code/symptoms.

No gas smell on startup, no jerkiness or hesitation at low speeds.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

The confusing thing is when you have very strong intake vacuum then the PCV diaphragm will be stuck open. The wide-open valve will let all oil vapor to plenum. Under normal intake pressures like 25-35 kPa (7 - 10 inHg) and positive pressure in the crankcase, the diaphragm should pulsate. It is pulsations catching most of the oil vapors. But your crankcase pressure seems to me too low. I think your intake pressure is very low too. 1 inHg is way too low.

Stumbles when you remove dipstick is not normal. That means the engine cannot control idle air (which again translates to abnormal intake plenum pressure).

Many think that PCV valve is designed for controlling crankcase vacuum but actually it is not. It is a thin rubber thing and obviously is not there for handling high pressures.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

So I did a full scan with the VAG Scanner came back with no issues on the engine. This makes sense as I haven't had issues all week.....but it did come back with other errors. One on the transmission, and one on the ABS which were both the same:

"01314 Engine Control Module - Sporadic 013 - Check DTC Memory"

and

17 - Instruments "12664832"

and

37 - Navigation "1048669 Unknown Error Code" which is because I don't subscribe to Sirius satellite radio.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

kieran123 said:


> So I did a full scan with the VAG Scanner came back with no issues on the engine. This makes sense as I haven't had issues all week.....


This started making sense when you replaced your air filter. Fresh air filter and low NOACK oil are what we actually need to keep the intake system in good order.



kieran123 said:


> "01314 Engine Control Module - Sporadic 013 - Check DTC Memory"
> 
> 17 - Instruments "12664832"
> 
> 37 - Navigation "1048669 Unknown Error Code" which is because I don't subscribe to Sirius satellite radio.


I recall the second when once in the past I was left out of the battery power and jump started my car. I haven't encountered the first one but Ross-Tech says that could happen if your ECU was recently flashed or remapped.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/01314


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

Code came back today. Will read it with the VAG scanner this evening after work.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

Scanned TB, ranges are fine on both sensors.

I am at a point now where I'm just gonna have to take it into the dealership and throw money at it until they fix it I suppose.

Last VW I will ever own :wave:


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

kieran123 said:


> Scanned TB, ranges are fine on both sensors.
> 
> I am at a point now where I'm just gonna have to take it into the dealership and throw money at it until they fix it I suppose.
> 
> Last VW I will ever own :wave:


I have one more suggestion to you but you didn't check your MAP sensor wiring, did you?

Ok. Do you know where the SAI combi valve is located?


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

Ronny Bensys said:


> I have one more suggestion to you but you didn't check your MAP sensor wiring, did you?
> 
> Ok. Do you know where the SAI combi valve is located?


I need to buy a multimeter and check voltage.

I have no idea where it's located. What should I check on it? Voltage on this too?


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

kieran123 said:


> I need to buy a multimeter and check voltage.
> 
> I have no idea where it's located. What should I check on it? Voltage on this too?


You bought two new valve covers and new MAP sensors but you don't want to invest in a $10 multimeter?

The secondary air injection system uses combi valve to control additional air into the exhaust stream during cold startups. When the combi valve is not properly closed, it will let hot exhaust gases to the intake manifold. It is located on the back of the head, next to cylinder 5. The pipe connected to the valve may get brittle and crack over the time. Check the pipe when the engine is cold. Check it after a 20-30 min. distance too. If you find it very hot at the point where it connects SAI pump, then the combi valve is not functioning properly.

But before that you have to check your MAP sensor wiring. Did you check in the dealership if your car is in the list of software update TSB?


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

Ronny Bensys said:


> You bought two new valve covers and new MAP sensors but you don't want to invest in a $10 multimeter?
> 
> The secondary air injection system uses combi valve to control additional air into the exhaust stream during cold startups. When the combi valve is not properly closed, it will let hot exhaust gases to the intake manifold. It is located on the back of the head, next to cylinder 5. The pipe connected to the valve may get brittle and crack over the time. Check the pipe when the engine is cold. Check it after a 20-30 min. distance too. If you find it very hot at the point where it connects SAI pump, then the combi valve is not functioning properly.
> 
> But before that you have to check your MAP sensor wiring. Did you check in the dealership if your car is in the list of software update TSB?


I've only purchased one valve cover and nowhere did I say I didn't want to invest in a multimeter? I replaced the MAP and Valve Cover as those are generally the fixes for this issue, and was recommended to me by users in this forum, across the internet, and my dealership (who wanted $1100).

Software update has been applied already.

How difficult is it to get to the SAI?


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

So we can drop the software update off the list? The SAI pump is located below the intake manifold, to the left of the MAP sensor. One end of the SAI pipe is connected to combi valve, an other end to the pump. You don't have to inspect the pump as this will need removal. If you are able to get to the pipe connection, remove the pipe and inspect it under strong source of light. Inspect the connection at the combi valve.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

Ronny Bensys said:


> So we can drop the software update off the list? The SAI pump is located below the intake manifold, to the left of the MAP sensor. One end of the SAI pipe is connected to combi valve, an other end to the pump. You don't have to inspect the pump as this will need removal. If you are able to get to the pipe connection, remove the pipe and inspect it under strong source of light. Inspect the connection at the combi valve.


Thank you, and correct.

Things done as of today:

MAP Sensor Replaced with Bosch OE
PCV Repair Kit (Dorman) installed
Valve Cover Replaced with VW OE due to rumours that Dorman kit may not be an actual fix
Throttle Body Cleaned
Intake Manifold Plenum Cleaned
Throttle Body Adaptation
Software Update

Things to do:

Check MAP Voltages
Check SAI pipe and connection at combi valve

Out of curiosity, could a leaking fuel injector cause this issue? Or would I see other codes and/or symptoms (eg. rough idle, no starts)


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

kieran123 said:


> Check MAP Voltages


You should check both the voltage and wire resistance but measuring wire resistance is easier than measuring the voltage. VW spec for wirings is 1.5 Ohm. Any wiring to any sensor above this limit should be replaced.



kieran123 said:


> Out of curiosity, could a leaking fuel injector cause this issue? Or would I see other codes and/or symptoms (eg. rough idle, no starts)


A leaking injector could cause P0106 because leaking injector adds up to the engine load which is a situation the ECU doesn't expect. The ECU continuously calculates engine load using the variables like manifold pressure, throttle position, engine speed, air and coolant temperature. When actual pulse width doesn't correspond to the commanded one, calculated engine load will not match predetermined throttle angles stored in the memory. The condition will set a P0106. It is particularly an unexpected condition when the leaky injector is causing rapid changes in engine load. A steady leaking injector should be fine with P0106.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

Ronny Bensys said:


> You should check both the voltage and wire resistance but measuring wire resistance is easier than measuring the voltage. VW spec for wirings is 1.5 Ohm. Any wiring to any sensor above this limit should be replaced.


Ok thanks. In terms of best way to test?

1. Unplug the connector from the map, turn car to ON, test voltage and Ohms?
2. Should I back probe so I can test with my car engine on as well by adjusting throttle?


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

kieran123 said:


> Ok thanks. In terms of best way to test?
> 
> 1. Unplug the connector from the map, turn car to ON, test voltage and Ohms?


To test the voltage:
Turn car to ACC ON, unplug the MAP sensor connector, test the voltage.

To test the resistance:
Turn car OFF, unplug the MAP sensor connector, unplug the ECU connector, using multimeter's buzzer function (speaker symbol) find the corresponding prongs at each end, test the resistance at matching prongs.



kieran123 said:


> 2. Should I back probe so I can test with my car engine on as well by adjusting throttle?


That would be the best approach but you don't have reference values. You need to know the feedback voltage on the MAP sensor matching the feedback voltage on the TPS. Rather I'd try using freeze frame logs to try to interpret the data at the moment DTC is set.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

Hey guys, quick update - sorry I haven't had a lot of time lately.

P0106 continued to return, oil in plenum and on MAP following 2 diaphragm changes. Last weekend I changed the entire valve cover with a new OEM part. Interestingly, the engine seems not to stumble as much with the oil cap removed, and crankcase vacuum *may* be lower than before, but I am not 100% sure on this. I believe the resolution of my vacuum gauge may be too coarse to get a good reading of crankcase vacuum, which I believe should be a relatively low value. 

P0106 has returned, but I did not clean any of the oil this time. I'll clean everything and clear the code this weekend if I get a chance. Next on the list is my oil pan, however, and I'll have to do that first. More to come.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Hey guys, quick update - sorry I haven't had a lot of time lately.
> 
> P0106 continued to return, oil in plenum and on MAP following 2 diaphragm changes. Last weekend I changed the entire valve cover with a new OEM part. Interestingly, the engine seems not to stumble as much with the oil cap removed, and crankcase vacuum *may* be lower than before, but I am not 100% sure on this. I believe the resolution of my vacuum gauge may be too coarse to get a good reading of crankcase vacuum, which I believe should be a relatively low value.
> 
> P0106 has returned, but I did not clean any of the oil this time. I'll clean everything and clear the code this weekend if I get a chance. Next on the list is my oil pan, however, and I'll have to do that first. More to come.


Thanks for the update! I;m curious if you've noticed a change in smell of your oil as I have. Mine stinks like gasoline.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi Kieran,

I changed my lower oil pan last weekend, and I did not find the oil smelled like fuel - maybe just a hint. I would more describe it like exhaust / carbon / old oil kind of smell. I went a bit beyond my change interval and it was pretty black. Thankfully, looking up into the crank case everything looks pretty clean, though there was a hint of sludge in the bottom of the old pan.

As for your oil smelling like fuel - if you still have P0106 it could be your mixture is off. But this is just a guess.

I still have not had a chance to remove my MAP and clean following my valve cover replacement, and I am *hoping* to do that this weekend, but we shall see. In the mean time P0106 is continually returning still for me. This morning when I got to work I scanned again and found a new one: 

_P2188 System Too Rich Off Idle Bank 1_

I did a quick bit of research and it looks like it might be related to the faulty MAP signal - I am hoping that's the case. We'll see what happens after this weekend - I will clean the plenum and MAP again, and hopefully that will do it. If not, it's time to go to the dealership as I am all out of ideas. Unfortunately my car is fairly rusty underneath - the previous owner did not undercoat it I guess. I am considering trading it in this spring, and while I would like to stick with VW, I am not sure if that is a great idea. I like the 2.5 engine when it's running right, but I have had a lot of problems with this car. 

Anyway I hope you (and anyone else reading!) have a nice weekend. I'll post the results after cleaning the MAP. Unfortunately I suspect the issue still isn't resolved but we shall see.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Hi Kieran,
> 
> I changed my lower oil pan last weekend, and I did not find the oil smelled like fuel - maybe just a hint. I would more describe it like exhaust / carbon / old oil kind of smell. I went a bit beyond my change interval and it was pretty black. Thankfully, looking up into the crank case everything looks pretty clean, though there was a hint of sludge in the bottom of the old pan.
> 
> ...



P2188 P2178 and P0106 are often seen together. I also get these codes, which is probably why I smell gas in my oil. I am away for work next week so won't be driving, but am going to book mine into a VW specialist rather than the dealership and see what they say. I am hoping they have a spare TB they can throw in and test drive. It seems like TB is a big cause of this issue.

I haven't had a chance to check the voltage on my MAP yet. Been busy with work/life. Maybe this weekend.

I hope you have a good weekend too. I may trade mine in next spring too. Time to go back to Japanese I think


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## Geoffzie (Jan 9, 2017)

Not saying this is your problem, but it was mine. 

There is a common connection in the engine wiring harness for several engine components ... and many Mk5 Jettas are plagued with various gremlins because of a short or high resistance in that common connection. It can affect the G71 MAP Sensor, G40 Cam Position Sensor, G62 Temp. Sensor, G61 and G66 Knock Sensors.

Here's my final post on the Ross-Tech forums after the problem was fixed ...

Just a final update on this, for the sake of future VW 2.5L P2279 searchers.

It turned out there was no problem with the the 2.5L PCV at all ... after replaced the PCV with a Dorman kit, checking all other vacuum hoses and lines, replacing the Dorman spring with a factory spring, and finally, replacing the whole valve cover with a new OEM unit ... I STILL had the P2279!

It was kind of an "accident" that I fixed it! I also had a reoccurring P2181 and fluctuating temperature gauge that I couldn't resolve after trying EVERYTHING. It turned out that BOTH fault codes were being caused by an engine wiring harness problem. 

The following ONLY applies to SOME 2.5L 5-Cyl. Jetta engines ... so check the wiring diagrams for YOUR car first! Not all Mk5 Jettas are wired the same! (VW likes to change things!)

There is a common connection within the engine harness (D103) for the G62 Engine Temp. Sens., G40 Cam Pos. Sens., G61 and G66 Knock Sensors, and G71 MAP Sens. And a bad connection to the G71 MAP Sens. can cause the P2279 ... it "fools" the ECU into thinking there's a vacuum leak ... when in fact, there isn't. A bad connection can also cause the Temperature Gauge to be erratic.

My solution was simply to run a new wire from Term. 2 on the G62 temp. sens. (brown wire) ... to Term. 3 on the G40 Cam Pos. Sens. (brown/white wire). This is the common lead for all the sensors going back to the ECU (it was good on my car). For some reason this fixed BOTH my P2181 and my P2279. 

But if you're getting a P2279 (and not the P2181) and you've tried everything else, you may have to run a new wire from the G71 MAP Sens. Term. 1 (brown/green wire) to Term. 3 on the G40 Cam Pos. Sens. (brown/white wire).

Everything works fine now! (REALLY!)


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## Geoffzie (Jan 9, 2017)

How do you check to see if there's a wiring problem? Just simply check for continuity between G40, G62, G71, G61, and G66. (Check the wiring diagram for your car to see which connector terminals are common)

G40 - Cam Position Sensor (located on head on the coolant reservoir side)
G62 - Temperature Sensor (located between the head and the battery box)
G71 - MAP Sensor (located on the intake manifold below and in from of the throttle body)
G61 and G66 - Knock Sensors (connectors located on battery end of head - green and gray connectors)

The G40 CPS has the common lead going back to the ECU.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi Kieran and Geoffzie,

Thank you both for the info. Geoffzie that is interesting about the connection issues - that's something I should look into next. I am getting an intermittent knock sensor out, now and then. I suspect my returning P0106 may still have something to do with oil getting into the intake, as that still seems to be happening.

Quick update - last weekend I pulled the throttle body and cleaned the plenum and MAP again. Once again I found oil in the plenum and on the MAP, though it seems to be less than before I replaced the valve cover. I'm hoping it is residual oil clearing out of the PCV tube, but I'm still not sure. P0106 continues to return.

This might be a 'red herring' but I only recently realized that I am not running the recommended grade of oil - I'm using Castrol synthetic 0W-40 meeting VW 502.00, but I see in my manual they call out 5W-40 502.00. A bit of research has found that people are very divided on oil ratings, with some saying 0W-40 is fine, others say not. This is just speculation, but I am wondering if it's a combination of the 'wrong' oil grade with my higher mileage engine (~150 K kms) with likely increased blow-by, that could be allowing oil into the intake. It's just a suspicion though. 

I'm going to wait a week and check the plenum one more time - if the oil situation hasn't improved, I may try switching to 5W-40 just to see if it makes any difference. A bit of an expensive experiment as my 0W-40 is freshly changed, but I'm grasping at straws at this point.

More to come!


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Both 0W-40 and 5W-40 meet VW 502.00 but NOACK volatility should be as low as possible. NOACK < 9.5% oils are good to go.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

Dropped my car off at the VW specialist this morning.....they actually listened and wanted to know everything about the fault unlike the dealership. They;re also only $108/h vs $140/h

Fingers crossed.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

So...they have no idea what's causing it.

They tested the MAP voltages etc which are fine. They mentioned the software update which I said had already been done, so now they're scratching their heads. I do want to mention for any Calgary based VW owners, Concept1 ( the shop my car is in ) are actually awesome. Super friendly and actually listen and don;t try and rip me off like the dealership :thumbup:

This has become a joke though 

If VW professionals can't figure it out, what the hell am I supposed to do :banghead:


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

kieran123 said:


> If VW professionals can't figure it out, what the hell am I supposed to do :banghead:


go back to the basics.

some mechanics and specialists do not take the time to diagnose wiring faults. you know, the ones that are the intermittent nightmares of car repairs.

your car will give you hints, vagcom will give you hints too, but at the end of the day, you have to read between those hints.

if your car works one week fine and not so good the next week, you need to focus on the error when it is happening.

if you get a specific code for a specific sensor, trace that wire from the sensor to the other end of the wire and check for continuity when moving the harness in multiple areas. it may read perfectly the first ten times you test it, however, you may move the wire just right and see the disconnect and or resistivity change from a broken wire.

check the wiring diagrams too. some sensors are on factory splices (not sure on VW yet). but it is done to lessen the amount of wiring going into the ECM. over time, these splices can corrode and fail and give intermittent issues.

and symptom of the oil in the manifold will always be there, but it should not build up quickly. every 30k miles would be reasonable after the vehicle has gone past 120k miles is my guess. i say this because this is seemingly the interval at which i clean my manifold. if the cleaning doesn't last more than a few weeks worth of driving, then i either didn't clean it properly or there is something else wrong. it's usually the first reason.

go ahead and check/clean all grounding points that are in and around the areas that ground the MAP harness. all of them.

a bad ground will each your lunch any day of the week, whenever it pleases, however many times it pleases.

have you modded the MAP sensor? there's a way to do so that has helped some 2.5 owners.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Any VW professional who isn't considering checking a wiring continuity is not a professional.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ very true.

it's either mechanical or electrical.

one thing for sure is that it is not impossible.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

They did do a continuity test from MAP --> ECU and found it in range with no issues

I'm probably going to do a catch can install and a TB then go from there. They mentioned they took it for a drive (around 20 miles) after cleaning the MAP and plenum, and there was a decent amount of oil even after that short drive.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi Kieran and all,

Kieran I feel your pain - I am still having issues with this. I cleaned the MAP and plenum again last week, and it seemed to me there was far less oil contamination. I was hoping this was residual oil working it's way through the system following my valve cover replacement (about 2 weeks ago).

Unfortunately P0106 has returned, today with P2188. I noticed last night on the way home that throttle response was inconsistent, with some surging, which would make sense as the MAP signal is likely in error. This may be foolish of me to simply throw parts at the problem, but I have ordered a replacement MAP sensor. I will check the plenum for oil again, and if it is fairly dry I'll try changing the MAP sensor and see what happens. 

That is irritating to hear that your VW specialist is having difficulty in resolving your troubles. I really like VW's and I was considering a newer Golf as my next car, again with the 2.5 but this whole ordeal is making me reconsider.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

Ronny Bensys said:


> Both 0W-40 and 5W-40 meet VW 502.00 but NOACK volatility should be as low as possible. NOACK < 9.5% oils are good to go.


Hi Ronny,

Thanks for the suggestion - I have never heard of the NOACK rating, so thank you - you've taught me something new. I haven't been able to find the NOACK rating for my Castrol 0W40 online, but I still have a partial 1 L bottle left so I'll check that tonight.

It's a long shot, but I may switch over to the recommended 5W40 to see if it helps this oil-in-plenum issue. Thanks for your help.

Jim


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Hi Kieran and all,
> 
> Kieran I feel your pain - I am still having issues with this. I cleaned the MAP and plenum again last week, and it seemed to me there was far less oil contamination. I was hoping this was residual oil working it's way through the system following my valve cover replacement (about 2 weeks ago).
> 
> ...


Hopefully the new MAP works for you.

I've been throwing money at mine too. The only reason I want to try the new throttle body is because I have seen 2 or 3 people on this forum replace theirs ( same codes P0106, P2188, P2187) and it's resolved their issue.

MAP Sensor replaced twice w/ aftermarket, then OEM
PCV Dorman repair kit installed
Valve Cover Replaced w/ OEM
Plenum Cleaned ( 4 or 5 times now )
TB cleaned and re-adapted ( multiple times )
MAP voltage/continuity to ECU checked and both good.

So I think I'm just gonna bite the bullet and order a new TB. I can get a brand new OEM one for ~$300 and install it myself, so it isn't a huge break to the bank.

Knowing my luck, both my MAP sensors were likely faulty from the factory


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

kieran123 said:


> They did do a continuity test from MAP --> ECU and found it in range with no issues


I wonder if they moved the harness any while reading the values. Also, was the engine acting up when they were testing the continuity?



kieran123 said:


> They mentioned they took it for a drive (around 20 miles) after cleaning the MAP and plenum, and there was a decent amount of oil even after that short drive.


I wonder if they cleaned the PCV hose that brings the oil from the valve cover?



kieran123 said:


> I'm probably going to do a catch can install and a TB then go from there.


As a last resort, this may slow down the oil buildup to a more reasonable mileage interval.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

I plan to (we'll see if it happens) remove the throttle body tonight and inspect plenum for oil, now that I have been driving for a while following my valve cover change. I ordered a new MAP sensor - P0106 returns immediately now for me, even after cleaning the original sensor, so I suspect the oil has destroyed it.

This is a long shot, but I also picked up some Castrol synthetic 5W-40 - I have been running 0W-40 meeting VW 502.00, but to the letter of the law the owner's manual recommends 5W-40, so we'll see. I have read that some report increased oil consumption with 0W-40, but I can not confirm those claims.

I don't know much at all about oil, so this could be wrong on my part, but here's my suspicion: multi-grade oils I believe are a blend of 2 or more oils, and I wonder if the 0W being thinner on the cold end, then becomes excessively thin / volatile at normal operational temp as compared to 5W. That could be incorrect but it's my working hypothesis at the moment. It could be that increased blow-by due to aging is exacerbating the problem. 

Anyway, that's a lot of speculation, but I'll let you know the results as I capture them. I highly doubt this much oil in the intake system is normal. If I can (hopefully) resolve this, I'll make sure to post it up in the hopes that it helps someone else. 

Cross your fingers for me . Have a good weekend all,

Jim


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

J.R.Freeman said:


> I plan to (we'll see if it happens) remove the throttle body tonight and inspect plenum for oil, now that I have been driving for a while following my valve cover change. I ordered a new MAP sensor - P0106 returns immediately now for me, even after cleaning the original sensor, so I suspect the oil has destroyed it.
> 
> This is a long shot, but I also picked up some Castrol synthetic 5W-40 - I have been running 0W-40 meeting VW 502.00, but to the letter of the law the owner's manual recommends 5W-40, so we'll see. I have read that some report increased oil consumption with 0W-40, but I can not confirm those claims.
> 
> ...


Good luck Jim! I've pondered about oil too. When my car is cold, it runs great, as soon as it warms up the P0106 and symptoms occur - ie. when the oil thins. This, mixed with the possibility of overfilling on oil ( as this started to happen after my last oil change ) may be a cause?


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Overfilled engine will definitely cause more oil droplets in PCV pipe. For 2.5L engine, VW specifies 6.3 quarts which sets the oil level to or above the max. dipstick line. I personally fill around 5.5 liters and so far have been good with intake.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi Ronny and Kieran,

Kieran that's an interesting point about the operating temperature. I noticed something similar - it seemed to only set P0106 after some running time, but I am not sure if that is time or temperature. 

Ronny thank you for the tip. I also put in about 5.5 liters or just over. I have a Chilton's repair manual, and I believe it specifies 6 liters up to 2007, and then after that they recommend 5.5 liters. I'm assuming this spec came from VW but I don't know for sure. 

Last night I drained my 0W-40, including draining the oil-filter housing with the little nipple (huhuh) on the bottom (hehehe). I replaced it with Castrol synthetic 5W-40. I'm not sure if it will make a difference, but I'm going to drive for a couple of days with the check engine light on (P0106), to hopefully give the oil a chance to clear out of the plenum. I have a new MAP sensor, that I will hopefully swap out this weekend. 

I'll let you guys know how it goes!


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Last night I drained my 0W-40, including draining the oil-filter housing with the little nipple (huhuh) on the bottom (hehehe). I replaced it with Castrol synthetic 5W-40. I'm not sure if it will make a difference, but I'm going to drive for a couple of days with the check engine light on (P0106), to hopefully give the oil a chance to clear out of the plenum. I have a new MAP sensor, that I will hopefully swap out this weekend.
> 
> I'll let you guys know how it goes!


Last month, after having it run with many 5W-40s for about 4 years, I finally changed my oil to Ravenol SSL 0W-40. My purpose is to test the oil and look for a better performance in cold startup. At the same time I'll have a chance to test the 0W-40 for P0106. So, 5.5 liters of 0W-40 and 6000 miles OCI is my formula. I think proper oil level and low oil volatility are key factors to a clean plenum.

On the other hand, I'm still theorizing the reason for failing MAP sensors. While considering this, I have always pointed out higher intake temperature while hinting both to PCV vapors' high temperature and possible failure of SAI combi valve. A partially open SAI combi valve will allow some exhaust gasses to the intake, thus increasing the intake temperature beyond the limit the MAP sensor could tolerate. Unfortunately, I don't possess VCDS to test the combi valve and overall SAI system.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi Ronny,

That is interesting - did you notice any difference while running the 0W-40? 


Here's a quick update on my situation. I changed the oil to Castrol synthetic 5W-40. Prior to this there seemed to be less oil in the intake, following my valve cover change. After driving for a couple days with the 5W-40, I cleaned the plenum again, and this time replaced the MAP sensor (last weekend), and cleared the codes. A day later I scanned for codes and found P0106 pending. I cleared that, and have now had a few days of driving with no codes, and nothing pending (after about 200 km of driving). 

One thing to note - this last time when cleaning the plenum it seemed there was far less oil. Unfortunately as I changed a few variables at once, I can't really draw any conclusions about what made things better. It could have been the new valve cover, the new oil, or a combination of both. As Ronny mentioned the oil volatility may be a factor also. So these results are a bit confusing but this combination of replacing parts + getting the correct oil seems to have helped the oil in plenum situation.

As for the returning P0106, I may have had a combination of problems. This is speculation but I think my old sensor may have died, or was destroyed by the oil contamination, as P0106 would reappear continuously. There may be a chance, also, that I have an intermittent connection between the MAP and ECU. I already have an intermittent connection on one of the knock sensors, so it is reasonable to assume other connectors in the engine bay may also require cleaning. When it is a bit warmer, I am going to go through all harness junction connectors I can find, clean them and apply dielectric grease. There is a chance this was simply the issue all along, but even if not, it may have been a contributing factor.

*Note: there appears to have been a part number change for the MAP sensor.*
Old MAP Bosch P/N: 0 261 230 095 , VW P/N: 03C 906 051
New MAP Bosch P/N: 0 261 230 234, VW P/N: 03C 906 051 F (Bosch confirmed this part number is correct for my application: 2010 Jetta 2.5 'CBT' engine. )

Through a bit of research it looks like the 'F' at the end of the new part number is revision F, suggesting there have been revisions A through E, previously. It sounds like VW has been chasing a problem(s) with the MAP system on our cars for a while. Make sure to confirm you have the latest part number if you replace your MAP!

Here (below) are some pictures showing the old and new parts, as well as the single rag I used in the plenum. This gives you an idea of how much oil came out. Still not dry, but a lot less than before. 

All that to say: things seem to be working better but I may still have a connectivity issue. We'll see if any codes return. I will keep you guys posted. I hope you all have a nice weekend.

Jim


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Hi Ronny,
> 
> That is interesting - did you notice any difference while running the 0W-40?


Hi Jim,

I didn't notice any difference between 0W-40 and my previous oil Shell HU 5W-40. Shell HU 5W-40 is based on RTL. Ravenol 0W-40 is PAO. Both perform very well under cold startup conditions. So far I haven't noticed any ticking or chain noise during cold startup. Btw, I didn't get P0106 when I used Shell HU 5W-40 for about a year.



J.R.Freeman said:


> *Note: there appears to have been a part number change for the MAP sensor.*
> Old MAP Bosch P/N: 0 261 230 095 , VW P/N: 03C 906 051
> New MAP Bosch P/N: 0 261 230 234, VW P/N: 03C 906 051 F (Bosch confirmed this part number is correct for my application: 2010 Jetta 2.5 'CBT' engine. )
> 
> Through a bit of research it looks like the 'F' at the end of the new part number is revision F, suggesting there have been revisions A through E, previously. It sounds like VW has been chasing a problem(s) with the MAP system on our cars for a while. Make sure to confirm you have the latest part number if you replace your MAP!


I don't know the old one but current OEM p/n is 03C 906 051 F, Bosch p/n 0 261 230 235. Actually MAP system is a new application in the 2.5L. Previous letters, if they ever existed, may refer to older MAF sensors or other motor applications. The prefix 03C suggests, the new MAP sensor was coded to Passat (most likely B6) for the first time. Then we had Golf Mk5 and finally Golf Mk6 using the MAP system. So Mk6 Jetta combined with CBTA are latest users of this mighty part number.

I replaced my MAP sensor in January and since 11 month now I'm satisfied with the performance. I'm really unsure whether MAP or new CTS made the P0106 to disappear.



J.R.Freeman said:


> Here (below) are some pictures showing the old and new parts, as well as the single rag I used in the plenum. This gives you an idea of how much oil came out. Still not dry, but a lot less than before.
> 
> All that to say: things seem to be working better but I may still have a connectivity issue. We'll see if any codes return. I will keep you guys posted. I hope you all have a nice weekend.
> 
> Jim


I still think oil residue has nothing to do with the P0106 but oil vapors do. So cleaning the plenum will not do any benefit. When you remove the ECU connector for cleaning check also continuity to MAP connector. Wire resistance must be <1.5 Ohm.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

Ronny Bensys said:


> I still think oil residue has nothing to do with the P0106 but oil vapors do. So cleaning the plenum will not do any benefit.


i believe it has something to do with it. it covers the sensor and creates a slightly different pressure gradient.

even if it isn't deep enough to cover the probe, the vapors will allow a bead of oil to accumulate on the sensor probe. this happens easier because of the design of the protective plastic that keeps the delicate part of the probe from being damaged. the small space around the probe and between the protective cover can build oil droplets until they 'connect' and completely/partially cover the bulb.

note the bead of oil connecting the plastic to the bulb:









here's the cleaned bulb:









some members have carefully cut away the protective end and it has solved the buildup issue.

also, the oil never damages the MAP sensor. water could possibly damage the electrical part, but not the oil or oil vapor.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

le0n said:


> i believe it has something to do with it. it covers the sensor and creates a slightly different pressure gradient.
> 
> even if it isn't deep enough to cover the probe, the vapors will allow a bead of oil to accumulate on the sensor probe. this happens easier because of the design of the protective plastic that keeps the delicate part of the probe from being damaged. the small space around the probe and between the protective cover can build oil droplets until they 'connect' and completely/partially cover the bulb.


That was exactly what I meant in my previous post. Oil vapor but not the buildup on the plenum surface. A bead of oil accumulation on the probe has happened every day since we bought our cars new. What is the reason then the sensor was not failing when the car was new? So, oil accumulation was part of the design but vapor concentration and temperature has been underestimated (or ignored). The main drawback of the system is inefficient vapor/droplet separation process.



le0n said:


> some members have carefully cut away the protective end and it has solved the buildup issue.
> 
> also, the oil never damages the MAP sensor. water could possibly damage the electrical part, but not the oil or oil vapor.


Water is another possibility which still points to oil vapor as the carrier of other components like water, acids, gas.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Hi Ronny,
> 
> That is interesting - did you notice any difference while running the 0W-40?
> 
> ...


Good to hear Jim. I really hope the issue has been solved for you. I am still nowhere on mine. It's got progressively worse as well. It happens after 10 minutes of driving now. I may order one more sensor and do a thorough clean of the plenum, and the PCV hoses before pulling the trigger on a $500 Throttle body.


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

*Just one more hint*

Guys, when did you replaced air filter last time?
It looks like standard VW's 30K km interval (for Canada) is too optimistic.
The oil vapour re-circulation and air flow paths connected, so if engine has difficulties with aspiration it inhales more oil vapours 

Last time I had this famous oily MAP sensor problem (P0106) - just replaced the air filter (after 21K) with looks like less thick (but more breathable) FRAM aftermarket one - feels good now...

To be honest - not that original filter was too dirty though...
To be more honest - replaced this damn PCV valve too with such aftermarket: 
https://order.germanparts.ca/product.html?part_number=K1801&manufacturer=4&modelyear=2011&model=5&modelengine=3359&application=14&subapplication=111&search_type=APPLICATION


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

VladL said:


> Guys, when did you replaced air filter last time?
> It looks like standard VW's 30K km interval (for Canada) is too optimistic.
> The oil vapour re-circulation and air flow paths connected, so if engine has difficulties with aspiration it inhales more oil vapours
> 
> ...


I replaced mine the same time I did my Valve Cover and MAP sensor.


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

I see,

It's nasty problem - every time it happened and, hopefully, fixed - it's hard to understand which of the ritual dance movements cure it  
Last summer (2016) I've cleaned the throttle body + definitely MAP sensor + intake manifold;
This summer (2017) - MAP + PCV valve + new Air filter... Actually bought new MAP sensor, installed, but it doesn't help - (after few drives it was covered by oil too) - replaced with old one, but cut from it half of the protective collar around the actual sensor (small bulb inside) - so the oil does not concentrate in droplet around it.


It seems to me as software glitch too: not always replacing/cleaning MAP sensor, for instance lease to problem disappear - usually it takes some time (to computer) for accommodation to new reality... As I remember the firmware was updated to latest version one time during regular service.

Do not understand VW - it's already Make 6 version of the engine (and very good and reliable engine, compared to modern one!) - and they was not able to fix this MAP glitch?!


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Actually MAP system is new to this engine. Older versions used to equip MAF system which is a completely different approach. Some owners of this newer engine and few professionals still think that MAP sensor is used for measuring air consumption. MAP sensor is used to calculate engine load which in turn means power output required to maintain engine speed at certain power inputs. Unlike MAF sensor, the MAP sensor provides critical data for almost every decision the ECU makes, like ESP, acceleration, shifting points, engine braking, fuel consumption etc. It is crazy, VW has put so many to the MAP system but did nothing to improve its basic PCV system.

Old or clogged air filters may glitch MAF sensor but MAP sensor is happy with the pressure inside the intake. I agree that clogged air filters will increase intake vacuum and cause more oil droplets in, but key oil properties contribute to the problem more than the air filter.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

VladL said:


> This summer (2017) - MAP + PCV valve + new Air filter... Actually bought new MAP sensor, installed, but it doesn't help - (after few drives it was covered by oil too) - replaced with old one, but cut from it half of the protective collar around the actual sensor (small bulb inside) - so the oil does not concentrate in droplet around it.


i've heard of members doing this, but how has this worked for you? i think it's a great quick fix.




VladL said:


> - and they was not able to fix this MAP glitch?!


i believe there is a simple fix. i never pursued it because a cleaning every year or so seems to work.

however, if one were to install the MAP sensor in a ~1" spacer between the throttle body and intake manifold, it should do the trick.

this way the MAP sensor is out of the accumulation area (low velocity corner) in addition to being constantly 'cleaned' by the incoming air that is moving at a higher velocity.

pressures should be relatively the same as the inside of the plenum.


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

Yeah, its true, they tried to optimize production costs by simplifying the mechanical part as much as possible and move all bells and whistles to software: 
- removed MAF sensor and replaced on much simpler *MAP* one;
- removed stand alone *EGR system* - this function implemented/emulated by Variable Timing;
- removed variable positioning of exhaust camshaft - all VT performed by just *one intake camshaft*;

But this mechanical simplification should improve reliability from one side, but demands more precise control from other. Here is the root of the problem: maybe not enough tested/tuned control software, or not tight enough tolerance of mechanical build (just one functionally overloaded regulated camshaft + *old PVC system*) or all together leads to our problems unfortunately...


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## VladL (Aug 14, 2016)

le0n said:


> i've heard of members doing this, but how has this worked for you?


It is working nice. (Sure, I've bought new original, just in case if something goes wrong  ) 
There is no mechanical influence on the censor, especially in this lower calm corner. It seems it's guarded mainly during installation process.
Unfortunately forgot to make picture of it before install...




le0n said:


> i think it's a great quick fix.
> ... install the MAP sensor in a ~1" spacer between the throttle body and intake manifold, it should do the trick.


Yes, I would try it if it was available to purchase - It's not a complex part to manufacture, but just do not know which appropriate material to choose and how and where to machine it...


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

aluminum would be the safest bet.

you may be able to modify a part from a vw meth injection kit.

this would have the correct bore and bolt pattern.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

I am convinced this is all related to temperature now.

We had ~8 days of extremely cold weather ( -30 degrees C ) and the issue never once popped up.

Today it was -5 degrees C and it happened again within 15 minutes of driving. The same route and time travelled during the extreme cold days.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi Kieran,

One thing you might want to check is go through the connectors under the hood, especially towards the bottom side of the engine, and clean everything that is accessible. It could be time consuming, and there's always the chance of breaking a connector, but that's maybe where I would start. I don't want to make extra work for you, but I know that a dirty connector caused a knock sensor fault on my car. 

Just an update - I have been driving my car for maybe 3 weeks now without a check engine light or any codes returning. (not to brag!). Unfortunately I changed a few things before solving this, so I am not sure exactly what did it. But I suspect excess oil in the plenum caused or contributed to MAF sensor failure. 

*Here's what I did to resolve my recurring P0106:

1. replaced oil with correct 5W-40, VW 502.00 (had been running 0W-40 502.00, not sure if this is a contributor)
2. replaced valve cover with new OEM part (2 diaphragm kits did not work for me)
3. replaced MAP sensor with Bosch P/N: 0 261 230 234, VW P/N: 03C 906 051 F (Bosch confirmed this part number is correct for my application: 2010 Jetta 2.5 'CBT' engine. )
*


Hopefully no codes return for now. I may trade this car in, in the spring, but for now it seems to be running well. Thanks everyone for your help.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Hi Kieran,
> 
> One thing you might want to check is go through the connectors under the hood, especially towards the bottom side of the engine, and clean everything that is accessible. It could be time consuming, and there's always the chance of breaking a connector, but that's maybe where I would start. I don't want to make extra work for you, but I know that a dirty connector caused a knock sensor fault on my car.
> 
> ...


Awesome news that your codes are gone and car is working as normal.

I am kinda stuck as to what to do next now. Cheapest option is to do an oil change (5.5L), clean plenum and PCV hose and install another MAP (3rd time's a charm, right?) seeing as I have done a Valve Cover replacement. Failing that, I guess I will have to order a new Throttle Body, annnnnd failing that, I will have to spend the $1000+ at the dealership for them to do what I've already done


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

kieran123 said:


> ...install another MAP (3rd time's a charm, right?)


I'm suggesting replacing the connector with a new one.



kieran123 said:


> I will have to spend the $1000+ at the dealership for them to do what I've already done


It'll take you about 15 min. to install the new throttle valve. You only need a basic clamp plier and torx screwdriver of proper size.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

Ronny Bensys said:


> I'm suggesting replacing the connector with a new one.
> 
> 
> 
> It'll take you about 15 min. to install the new throttle valve. You only need a basic clamp plier and torx screwdriver of proper size.



Do you happen to know where I can purchase a new connector?


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Dealership and OEM catalogs don't have a listing for the connector because it is an integral part of the engine harness and is not offered separately. Normally the p/n is coded on the connector housing. After you find the p/n, you can order it at any online shopping site listing the OEM catalog. You may search for it on ebay as well.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

Well, I spoke too soon - after more than a month P0106 has returned for me. 

That being said, here are some details that lead me to believe it might be a faulty connection between the MAP and ECU:


No issues during a month of dry, cold weather
Following a couple days of warm, wet weather and a car wash, intermittent knock-sensor issue returns
A day later 2 instances of P0106 are logged


So, I know I have an intermittent connection with one of my knock sensors. Occasionally when the car gets wet, I'll lose connection with a knock sensor and the car goes into a protection mode, limiting the RPM to 3000. Being a lazy bum, I have just been clearing the code as sometimes it doesn't return for months. So I know I have a moisture related connectivity issue with that sensor.

My guess is I'm having a similar issue with the MAP sensor connectivity to the ECU. Kieran, I believe you mentioned you car seems to work better when it's cold (and therefor dry), is that true? If so we may have something similar going on.

My next step will be to buy some supplies and start cleaning / servicing connectors under the hood. I'll trace the MAP sensor back to where it meets the harness and see if there are any connectors along the way. It may be a while before I can get to this as things are busy for me lately. But I'll let you guys know what I find out.

Kieran in regards to you car - I think Ronny is right to suspect a connection issue also. But you may not have to replace your connector - cleaning may solve this. I suspect it may not be the connector at the MAP itself, but one further down the harness, that would be more exposed to the elements.

Anyway, all the to say - I'll explore the connector issue and get back to you guys. If we are lucky a bit of cleaning and dielectric grease might finally put these MAP issues to bed. More to come!

Jim


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Well, I spoke too soon - after more than a month P0106 has returned for me.
> 
> That being said, here are some details that lead me to believe it might be a faulty connection between the MAP and ECU:
> 
> ...


That sucks to hear Jim. I have a new MAP sensor at home that I am going to replace this weekend with a THOROUGH clean of all PCV hosing, TB and plenum. I will run through the harness and clean all connections as well.

When the weather is extremely cold ( ie. -20 or colder ), P0106 doesn't show up, or takes longer to show up. Mine seems to be temperature related. Likely related to oil vapor.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

Update:

Things I did over the weekend:

1. removed TB and throroughly cleaned ( decent amount of carbon build up since my last clean around 3000km ago)
2. removed and thorougly cleaned PCV hose from valve cover to intake manifold. This thing was dirty.
3. Cleaned the "nipple" out on the valve cover where the PCV hose connects
4. Cleaned the "nipple" on the intake manifold where the other end of the PCV hose connects
5. Cleaned out the intake manifold plenum THOROUGHLY. I spent an hour doing this. There was a lot of oil. I got it completely clean as best I could.
6. Cleaned out the little hole where the MAP sensor goes
7. Re tightened bolts on valve cover
8. Replaced MAP and re installed everything

I found that the harness to my MAP doesn't "click" in place anymore. It actually slides off quite easily. I can't remember if it's always been like this or not. It would make sense if it is not making a good connection for me to get an implausible signal.

I left it as is and drove to work today and did not experience any symptoms. A reminder that I would get symptoms plus the engine light on every trip prior to this....so it's an improvement already 

I'm going to Macgyver it and duct tape the harness to the map this evening and see how it goes.

Following this, I will take it into the dealer and get a replacement harness.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi Kieran,

I'm sorry to hear you are continuing to have issues. I have not had a chance to look at my car again having had P0106 return. However it has been a few days now with no check engine light, following clearing the codes. I'll scan tonight but if there are no codes, this is further evidence of an intermittent connection to the MAP sensor.

In your case, if I might suggest something it would be to clean the MAP connector with contact cleaner, and then apply some lubricant to the connector body. Ideally dielectric grease. It may be that your connector is not locking because it is dirty and not fully seating. I have seen this happen before, and it could result in an intermittent connection.

Just a thought! I'll let you know if I find anything else out about my situation. 

Best of luck,

Jim


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

Day 3....no issues....around 150km driven


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

At 2 weeks now with no issues. I am not confident it;s gone forever, but am happy nonetheless.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

That's great Kieran! I hope it continues to work for you. My P0106 has returned but for the time being I am just going to drive it and wait until the weather is nicer. When it's a bit warmer I will try cleaning all the related connectors I can find under the hood. Right now my best guess is that it is a connection fault between the sensor and ECU. I still have that intermittent knock sensor code, that seems to happen whenever the car gets wet. 

Oh well, at least it is still drive-able. I do miss the seat heaters that I used to have in the old Rabbit. First world problems 

I hope you have a good weekend!


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

J.R.Freeman said:


> That's great Kieran! I hope it continues to work for you. My P0106 has returned but for the time being I am just going to drive it and wait until the weather is nicer. When it's a bit warmer I will try cleaning all the related connectors I can find under the hood. Right now my best guess is that it is a connection fault between the sensor and ECU. I still have that intermittent knock sensor code, that seems to happen whenever the car gets wet.
> 
> Oh well, at least it is still drive-able. I do miss the seat heaters that I used to have in the old Rabbit. First world problems
> 
> I hope you have a good weekend!


Any update J.R? P0106 hasn't returned for me but I'm still not confident. I get a tiny bit of jerkiness in lower speeds, but nowhere near as bad as previously.


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## hewazimk6 (Mar 7, 2018)

J.R.Freeman said:


> *Edit: In case this helps anyone, these are the steps I took to resolve my returning P0106, P0507:
> 
> 1. replaced oil with correct 5W-40, VW 502.00 (had been running 0W-40 502.00, not sure if this is a contributor)
> 2. replaced valve cover with new OEM part (2 diaphragm kits did not work for me)
> ...



hey jim, could you send a link for the valve cover OEM part


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

hewazimk6 said:


> hey jim, could you send a link for the valve cover OEM part



Hi there,

My apologies for the late reply - I haven't been on in a while. I used ECS Tuning's valve cover kit, which includes a new gasket and hardware. I don't have a copy of my invoice but this looks like the correct one (maybe just confirm with ECS your model year just be to be sure):

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/valve-cover/07k103469l/

OEM P/N *07K 103 469 L*
ECS P/N *ES#285871*


That being said, code P0106 has been intermittently returning so my valve cover replacement did not solve the issue. I still think it might be a bad electrical connection, but I haven't had the time to look at the car lately. Hopefully soon. Hope that helps!


edit: one other thing to mention if you attempt the valve cover replacement - the torque spec for the bolts is quite low, I *think* it was 89 inch-pounds, but confirm that for sure as my memory is not that great! Also there is a recommended sequence of tightening them, to avoid warping / breaking the plastic cover. As I am not a pro mechanic, I was a bit nervous that I would blow up my brand new valve cover, but I took my time and it all went well. Probably took a little under 2 hours (I work slow!).


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## Geoffzie (Jan 9, 2017)

Just a FYI ... Mk5 Jetta 2.5L engine harnesses are known for having "shorting issues". I've had two different Jetta harnesses that I had to rewire because of intermittent problems. 

The first was a 2008 Jetta 2.5L that had an erratic temperature gauge ... after replacing Temperatures sensors, thermostat, and bleeding the cooling system numerous times, to no avail ... I discovered it was a bad ground WITHIN the engine harness going to the G62 temperature sensor on the engine. I had to repair the harness.

The second was a 2005 Jetta 2.5L that had an erratic Camshaft Position Sensor ... which eventually quit working completely. Once again it was the ground wire WITHIN the engine harness that was the problem, and I had to repair the harness.

What's interesting on these cars is, the Engine Temp. Sensor, the MAP Sensor, the Cam Pos. Sensor, and the Camshaft Control Valve (among other things) all use a common ground within the harness that seems to be a typical problem. So just beware that if you have reoccurring and intermittent problems with any of these components ... that you can't seem to resolve with simply replacing parts ... it just MIGHT be the engine harness itself.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi Geoffzie,

Thanks for sharing that info - that is interesting! I think I might have a connection issue, so it's interesting to hear from someone who has had first hand experience. Unfortunately I may have changed my MAP sensor and valve cover for nothing, though I do think I had a failed PCV valve as there was quite a lot of oil in the plenum. Ahh well, live and learn! 

Anyway thanks again - I'll hopefully take a look at the harness soon and report back. I'm considering trading this car in over the summer, so my motivation to have it running perfectly has gone down-hill!

Jim


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

Update from me...roughly ~4000km now and no engine light or issues since the "deep clean". I'm selling the car in November...so fingers crossed it lasts until then :laugh:


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Hi Kieran,
> 
> That's great! I'm glad to hear you sorted it out - nicely done! What do you think you'll get for your next car? I have been considering a used (maybe 2015?) either Golf or Jetta TSI, but I have never owned a turbocharged car and I am a little concerned about the complexity of the 1.8 EA888. As much as I love VW's, the problems I have had with my 2010 2.5 Jetta have made me a bit hesitant to jump in with another one. I'd love a GTI but they are a little out of reach for me.
> 
> Jim



It won't be a VW for me. After this issue, plus a bunch of other things.....and the diesel fume tests on monkeys, I'll never buy another VW again.

Likely go back to Japanese I think (which I never should have left)


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## Geoffzie (Jan 9, 2017)

I know what you mean kieran123! 

I'm selling my 2007 "Passetta" ... and I just recently purchased a used 2008 Toyota Sienna van (I haul LOTS of stuff!) ... with 287,000 miles! ... original engine and transmission ... no rust ... and EVERYTHING works (except the A/C). Most of what needs repaired on it is cosmetic ... tailgate dented ... carpeting needs cleaned ... white paint needs buffed out because it's oxidized. 

It runs GREAT ... shifts GREAT ... doesn't use any oil ... and I DON'T need VCDS to fix it!

Before I purchased the B6 Passat Wagon, I had a 2004 Toyota Sienna ... with 360,000 miles! ... original engine and transmission! ... so 287,000 miles on a Toyota doesn't bother me.

Such a load off my mind! ... I'm getting too old to be fixing a car every weekend!


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

I forgot your previous works on your car. Did you change connector and wiring of the MAP sensor? Did you scan the throttle body with VCDS? Unlike generic OBDII apps, VCDS is capable of diagnosing throttle control module.

Yes, I confirm replacing the throttle body eliminated P0106 for some members. Electrical resistance between MAP and ECU should be <1.5 Ohm.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Hi Ronny,
> 
> I have not changed the wiring or connector for the MAP, however I have inspected and cleaned any connectors I could find under the hood along the path. I have not performed the resistance measurement between the MAP and ECU - it could still be an electrical connection issue. I also do not have vag com unfortunately.
> 
> ...


Maybe check your local scrapyards for 2.5 TBs (a lot cheaper than buying new). Just curious, did you clean out all the PCV hoses as well? My car goes up for sale in October, although P0106 hasn't returned since I last cleaned it out, I now have rust forming (I wash this thing on the regular), the clear coat is wearing off, and just had to replace the front left wheel bearing.

I have read of this issue being fixed by multiple users replacing their TB - but without a VAGCOM to scan, it may just be a waste of money.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Hi Ronny,
> 
> Jim


Hi Jim. All symptoms point to throttle body malfunctioning during idle control. I agree with kieran in that better to first scan the TB with VAGCOM then you can decide what to do next. I just checked, new genuine TB costs $413.

You can use your multi-meter in continuty mode. Continuty mode (beeping mode) measures resistance and shows it on the display. Remove connectors at the ECU and MAP. Plug the black probe to one of the tips in MAP connector. Then find the corresponding tip at ECU end with the red probe by simultaneously checking the display. If the resistance is small enough the multi-meter will beep too.


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Hi Ronny and Kieran and all,
> 
> Just a quick update - Ronny you were right, it looks like it was the throttle body! I removed the throttle body once more, and inspected it closely. Even though I had given it a quick cleaning at some point, I noticed there was a thin ring of carbon build-up between the throttle blade and the bore. It was hard to notice, but it was there. I bought throttle-body cleaner, and I applied it a few times from both sides until it ran clear. A decent amount of carbon came out.
> 
> ...


Awesome news! It's such a relief to get this issue resolved. Congrats!


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Glad you sorted it out! :thumbup:

Lesson learnt. Now that We are ready to share our knowledge with the guys working for VW, I will summarize the solution.

What you should do:
1. Check your MAP sensor wiring, connector and the throttle body. Scan the throttle body for codes, thoroughly clean the throttle blade and make readaptation with the VCDS.
2. Check wiring continuity. Electrical resistance should be < 1.5 Ohm.
3. Monitor intake air temp. and outside air temp. on a cold engine with a OBDII app. If you suspect IAT is incorrect, replace the MAP sensor with OEM or Bosch 0 261 230 235.

What you don't have to do:
1. You don't have to clean the intake manifold although cleaning will not hurt while you are there.
2. You don't have to replace the valve cover. A new cover will not eliminate P0106 although you may find the engine performing better. But sooner or later the P0106 will return.

What you should do in long term:
1. Shorter air filter change intervals (per 2 years or shorter intervals).
2. Pay attention to your oil level. Do not overfill the engine. Adjust the dipstick level to "Normal". Never "Max" the level.
3. Pay attention to PCV system. Replace the PCV diaphragm with a good one if you find it worn. Replace oil filler cap gasket with OEM. This is crucial for proper operation of PCV system.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

Ronny Bensys said:


> Glad you sorted it out! :thumbup:
> 
> Lesson learnt. Now that We are ready to share our knowledge with the guys working for VW, I will summarize the solution.
> 
> ...


Cleaning the intake manifold worked for me. Original MAP is still on the engine with over 200k miles.

As stated before though, if the intake manifold cleaning procedure doesn't fix it, suspect the throttle body.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

le0n said:


> Cleaning the intake manifold worked for me. Original MAP is still on the engine with over 200k miles.


You're the only exception in my theory :beer:


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## Joepolo9 (Nov 4, 2017)

I fixed..
Replace valve cover, i buy the OEM with PCV incluided
Replace MAP i used Bosh sensor
Clean TB with Carbucleaner
Clean PCV hose with gasoline 
Replace the 5 spark plus i used NGK ZFR6T-11G

Jetta 2.5 2012 97,700 miles 
I only use Oil 5w30 Castrol Edge 



Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Joepolo9 said:


> I fixed..
> Replace valve cover, i buy the OEM with PCV incluided
> Replace MAP i used Bosh sensor
> Clean TB with Carbucleaner
> ...


I hope this will permanently fix the P0106 but past experiences show that new valve cover eliminated the fault for a few persons. P0106 is basically electrical or power supply issue provided that the ECU software is already updated with new software and throttle valve is recalibrated.


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## hyfrtt (Jul 9, 2019)

*P0106 - Resolved!*

Hi,

I've had this issue for years and I ended up replacing the MAP sensor and the PCV diaphragm many times which still did not resolve the issue.

After reading this thread, I ended up cleaning the throttle body and I haven't had this error code for over 1000km now.

I am so relieved that was the issue after all this research.

Thanks!!!


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