# Stalling on decel and idle is low, codes for low signal MAF & Knock Sensor 1



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

My setup is an obd2 vr6 with 42lb injectors, 4" MAF and C2 42lb software. Before installing my setup my car had absolutely no codes being thrown. The car was running tip top. I just got the car started a few weeks ago and had some software issues (I was sold a 30lb file instead of the 42lb software by a vortex'r). I just bought the new 42lb software from C2 and im getting 2 codes
00524 - Knock Sensor 1 (G61) 
07-00 - Signal too Low
16486 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70): Signal too Low 
P0102 - 35-00
What im experiencing is Idle is about 500 to 600 RPM, when I drive the car barely on the throttle its popping and gurgling and when I throttle it and its in boost the car runs perfect. When I come off the throttle and decelerate the car goes lean and stalls out. My vacuum at idle is at 20 and my Aeromotive FPR is at 44 with the vac off. I have swapped 3 known good MAF's in and nothing chanked. I even took my MAF and installed it into my buddys VR and he ran with no problems. I checked the MAF harness and had continuity on the signal wires to the MAF, I had 12v's at the harness and my ground was good. I have checked all my vac lines, all my t-clamps and silicone couplers and everything seems 100%. I am at a loss for what to check next. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I also have some datalogs I will post up tomorrow.


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: Stalling on decel and idle is low, codes for low signal MAF & Knock Sensor 1 (vaporado)*

bad maf. bad knock sensor.
i had that knock code. turns out my wires were wasted on my rear knock sensor.
as for the MAF. signal too low is bad maf im pretty sure.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: Stalling on decel and idle is low, codes for low signal MAF & Knock Sensor 1 (jhayesvw)*

maf is fine, worked in another car. the wiring is the issue IMO. 
on BOTH. 
but, walt already knows this


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: Stalling on decel and idle is low, codes for low signal MAF & Knock Sensor 1 (jhayesvw)*

I tried 3 MAF's and tried one from a running car with no issues and tried the one that was in my car in my buddys car and in his car he had no issues. As far as wiring, what wiring should I be looking at? I checked the MAF harness and I am seeing 12v's, ground is good and the signal wires from the MAF to the ECU show continuity. Whats the next step?


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: Stalling on decel and idle is low, codes for low signal MAF & Knock Sensor 1 (vaporado)*

walt, double check all of your grounds. something is not right, and i can't for the life of me figure it out.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: Stalling on decel and idle is low, codes for low signal MAF & Knock Sensor 1 (Noobercorn)*

I checked and have re-checked grounds, unless im missing grounds somewhere they are all good.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: Stalling on decel and idle is low, codes for low signal MAF & Knock Sensor 1 (vaporado)*

help


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: Stalling on decel and idle is low, codes for low signal MAF & Knock Sensor 1 (vaporado)*

walt, can you post vag logs for MAF signal?


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: Stalling on decel and idle is low, codes for low signal MAF & Knock Sensor 1 (Noobercorn)*

I have to see if Timmy or Lavi have the logs, I only have the logs with the 30lb file.


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: Stalling on decel and idle is low, codes for low signal MAF & Knock Sensor 1 (vaporado)*

just to let you all know, this car runs awesome under boost, and while driving around.. it just will not hold an idle without babying it down from the revs..
when you start it up you don't have to give it throttle it will hold idle fine. but if you blip the throttle and don't help it on the way down, it will stall..
shouldn't the ecu tell the throttle body to open up when the rpms get too low like when it is stalling?
the ecu uses the CPS to read rpm right?


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: Stalling on decel and idle is low, codes for low signal MAF & Knock Sensor 1 (ERROL)*

yeah, crank position does RPM on ECU. 
sounds like a wicked vac leak. check all the stuff AFTER throttle body. 
in this car, it should be ease. just a few lines, and a gasket. ut oh, is it the intake manifold gasket? is it new? is the intake manifold bolted on well? 
what is the car reading at idle (vac)?


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: Stalling on decel and idle is low, codes for low signal MAF & Knock Sensor 1 (Noobercorn)*

it reads 20 vac at 650 rpm idle


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: Stalling on decel and idle is low, codes for low signal MAF & Knock Sensor 1 (ERROL)*

meh, then it HAS to be in the decel trim/idle adjustment. 
perhaps Jeff will chime in here.......


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## gtimagic (Feb 13, 2002)

idle should be closer to 850 if possible.


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (gtimagic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtimagic* »_idle should be closer to 850 if possible. 

agreed, but, from how walt explains it to me, the ecu locks us out of adjusting idle rpm. i'm not sure if that parameter of the c2 chipped is locked or not


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## gkjnr (Jan 29, 2008)

do the isv delete mod thats on here ,i had the very same problems as you and i changed everything, plugs ,coil, maf the lot, i did this mod and now its perfect, its the best 10 mins you,ll spend mate


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (gkjnr)*

no isv.. obd2


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## gkjnr (Jan 29, 2008)

re-align the throttle body then, i,m not too sure but is there not a screw on the throttle body that you could use to bring the tickover up a bit


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (gkjnr)*

there's no idle adjustment screw on obd2 throttle bodies..
the throttle body aligns automatically with the ignition on after the battery has been off. and you can also realign it thru vagcom which he's done numerous times..


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## gkjnr (Jan 29, 2008)

well thats my ideas in the bin then,sorry i couldnt help mate


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (gkjnr)*

no problem man. thanks for throwing ideas out there. we need all the help we can get.. (i am too wrapped up in the project) lol


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (ERROL)*

thanks guys, I will post up later


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## Groundskeeper (Jul 24, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Sorry I can't help too much here, but your idle issues sound somewhat close to what I'm experiencing on my VRT
I'm on the latest OBD2 30# C2 software.
Like starting up, the idle will be all right. But as soon as you've been on the gas and then let go (say, you're approaching a Stop sign or something) the idle will drop like a ton of bricks and the car almost struggles to stay alive as the idle BOUNCES right? Even to the point of sometimes cutting out on you?
What other modifications have you done to the engine? SAI delete? Oil Catch Can?
Just trying to get a feel for any similarities in setup.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Groundskeeper)*

SAI delete, Catch can, A/C delete, power steering delete, back seat delete (just kidding). Newest C2 42lb software, SP SRI, FMIC, GT35R, MSD DIS4, MSD Tower coils, Aeromotive FPR, TIAL 38MM wastegate, Greddy Type RS BOV recirculated behind the 4" MAF about 10 inches...


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## Groundskeeper (Jul 24, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Are your O2 sensors hooked up? Do you have a cat?
I'm thinking of trying my old C2 software and seeing if it's something in the new chip that's just not adapting properly . . . otherwise, it'd have to be something physical that I did.
For lulz, what plugs do you have in there and what are they gapped to?
I'll let you know how that turns out.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Groundskeeper)*

I am running the pre-cat o2 sensor, I have no cat im dumping after the 3" DP. I am running MSD wires and NGK plugs gapped at .030


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Today I pulled the TB out, I remembered I had dropped it when I had pulled it off the stock setup. I was going to inspect it and clean it. I found that the TPS was cracked underneath one of the screws and the TPS was loose. Could this be the root of my evils? My TB never threw a code neither did the TPS. From what I understand either the MAF or the TPS have to be plugged in for the car to start. I tried running my in both scenariois where the TPS was plugged in and the MAF wasnt and vice versa. Both ways the car started and idle'd. When both were not connected the car just cranked.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vaporado)*

it's possible walt, try using another one and see if ti helps before you go spending money on one. cause last i checked, they were pricey.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

I got a used TB on the way.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Tried a used TB (which had a crack in it) and the same exact problems are happening. Im going out of my mind.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Replaced coolant temp sensor, made no difference. I am going to swap out the injectors, ECU and chip to islolate the problems.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vaporado)*

something is off, i wish i were there to look at it.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

going to swap stock injectors, maf and ecu tomorrow.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Injectors I borrowed were not in the best of shape, I am having some sent to me, I should have them mid-week. Until then anything else I could check?


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vaporado)*

not too sure bro. what are you plans with the injectors and chip? put it back to stock, and drive out of boost? 
dammit i wish i lived up there.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

Yup. I wanted to isolate the problem. Stock injectors, stock chip and stock maf housing. I cant think of what could be making this happen. It starts up perfect, it warms and then it drops in RPM to about 540 to 600 rpm's. As soon as you touch the throttle it goes up in RPM no problem and if you let go of the throttle it just goes lean and stalls out. When youre driving at part throttle the cars starts feeling like its bucking a little and you can hear it misfiring. As soon as youre under boost the car drives amazing.As soon as you clutch it it stalls out. Im just repeating myself to stir any thoughts.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vaporado)*

bad O2 sensor? if it is fine while cold, and then gets bad, i say check the O2. the car runs on a "map" of sorts until the O2 is warmed up, then it takes the O2 input. 
it is possible for an O2 to be bad without throwing a code.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

^I swapped O2 's this past weekend with no change.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vaporado)*

dammit. well, we are nearing the "send the chip back for a replacement.... again" zone.....


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

Well thats pretty much why I needed to set the fueling back to stock, BTW what should I have my FPR set at with the vac line disconnected to run it stock?


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Check the wiring for the MAF and 02 sensors, if you haven't already. 
Are you seeing any activity from the MAF / 02 on VAG-COM?


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (vr6swap)*

if youre obd2, the FPR stock is a 3 bar.
if youre obd1, it could be a 3bar or a 4 bar. ive seen both on stock cars.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (vr6swap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6swap* »_Check the wiring for the MAF and 02 sensors, if you haven't already. 
Are you seeing any activity from the MAF / 02 on VAG-COM?

Sorry for the delayed response. I have checked and swapped MAF's and also o2 sensor to no avail. I do have activity from MAF and o2 on vagcom. Im not sure if the values are correct due to my low signal code.

_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_if youre obd2, the FPR stock is a 3 bar.
if youre obd1, it could be a 3bar or a 4 bar. ive seen both on stock cars.

Thanks. Im obd2.


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vaporado* »_
Sorry for the delayed response. I have checked and swapped MAF's and also o2 sensor to no avail. I do have activity from MAF and o2 on vagcom. Im not sure if the values are correct due to my low signal code.


Okay, check the wiring between the ECU and the MAF / 02 sensor, both visually (like upwrap it and look for broken or otherwise F'ed up wires) and ohm it out between the ECU plug and the sensor plugs. 
Might not be your problem, but it's worth a look at this point.


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (vr6swap)*

according to walt he has 12v and ground at the maf and the 2 signal wires ohm out from the harness at the maf all the way up to the ecu.

the o2 sensor wires are fine also, i mean his lc1 and oem o2 sensor are reading the same values (2 different o2 sensors).


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## dj br3ndo (Dec 25, 2005)

Check how man grams of air/second you're reading in vagcom. I had a problem with this for a long time in my mkIV 12v VRT, problem turned out to be the MAF sensor. After 3 other sensors were tried that were known good, I finally got a new one and it worked perfectly.


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (dj br3ndo)*

just a bit of an update..
we have no more MAF fault. we've never had an o2 fault
the car runs flawless under boost. timing is perfect( as logged thru vagcom).
the car will idle fine on startup, and when babied down from rpm, but if the throttle is let off sharply it will fall on it's face.. everytime. vacuum at idle is 20 hg. 0 vacuum leaks..


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (Groundskeeper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Groundskeeper* »_Sorry I can't help too much here, but your idle issues sound somewhat close to what I'm experiencing on my VRT
I'm on the latest OBD2 30# C2 software.
Like starting up, the idle will be all right. But as soon as you've been on the gas and then let go (say, you're approaching a Stop sign or something) the idle will drop like a ton of bricks and the car almost struggles to stay alive as the idle BOUNCES right? Even to the point of sometimes cutting out on you?
What other modifications have you done to the engine? SAI delete? Oil Catch Can?
Just trying to get a feel for any similarities in setup.

i had the exact same problems with my new 30# c2 software but when i put my old 30# software back in it ran fine (other than bad fuel mileage, which was my reasoning for getting the new software).


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Gaets)*

we spent another 4 +hours on it logging, adjusting, searching searching searching.. and nothing..
Walt is about to send the chip back. we are totally stumped


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (ERROL)*

Thanks to Errol for lending me his ECU and time tonight and Keith for letting me borrow his stock injectors. We installed the ecu with stock chip, stock maf housing and stock injectors and the car idle'd perfect and no decel issues. The car is perfect. After all the troubleshooting to find out it was this easy to get down to the bottom of this is frustrating. I guess its safe to say it was the software. I took a video of the car running tonight on the stock setup and tomorrow I will put everything back the way it was and take another video so you can see the difference.


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Gaets)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gaets* »_
i had the exact same problems with my new 30# c2 software but when i put my old 30# software back in it ran fine (other than bad fuel mileage, which was my reasoning for getting the new software). 


DING DING DING!!!


_Quote, originally posted by *vaporado* »_Thanks to Errol for lending me his ECU and time tonight and Keith for letting me borrow his stock injectors. We installed the ecu with stock chip, stock maf housing and stock injectors and the car idle'd perfect and no decel issues. The car is perfect. After all the troubleshooting to find out it was this easy to get down to the bottom of this is frustrating. I guess its safe to say it was the software. I took a video of the car running tonight on the stock setup and tomorrow I will put everything back the way it was and take another video so you can see the difference. 


no problem mang. i just wish we had a little more support from the source of this problem. thank you to all the Vortex including but not limited to (in no particular order) :
punk ass Mike, NooberMike, Timmy the Tuna, Lavi, Dubnutz Keith, L33t James, Tyrol Mike, and the dozens of IM's with well-thought-out suggestions and potential solutions..


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (ERROL)*

Heres tonights vid. You can see clearly im running stock injectors and stock maf, this is with an ecu with stock chip. You can also see Errol let the car decel without babying it to keep it alive.


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

nice.. and mind you, i'm not too sure how it sounds on anyone else's pc, cuz to me it sounds like it's missing, but that's just the audio. the car idles rock solid in person http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (ERROL)*

word http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## gtimagic (Feb 13, 2002)

sounds pretty smooth.
Yeah, the audio clips out for me too. But idle sounds smooth http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
they'll be drinks poured in Huntington tonight


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (gtimagic)*

no on the drinks


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (vaporado)*

I just re-installed the 4" MAF, 42LB injectors (flow tested) and the ECU with the 42lb software. The car runs like a mess, wont hold an idle, as soon as you come off the throttle in dies.


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

i don't think there is a more definitive approach to trouble-shooting than this. everything remained the same except now there is a stock chip, old ass stock injectors and stock size MAF housing(we reused the MAF that was in there the whole time.. actually the MAF that is in the car now is from my car. i have been running Walt's MAF for a few weeks now to prove that there is nothing wrong with it). the distance from the filter to the MAF is the same in 42 lb and n/a trim.
Before: in 42 lb trim

After: in stock NA trim. 



_Modified by ERROL at 3:49 PM 4-3-2008_


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (ERROL)*

The only other question I have is: 
Have you been able to keep the car running long enough for the ECU to adapt? 
Another car I know of (







) ran kinda rough, wouldn't idle ETC until we got the car out and put a some miles on it. 
If you posted anything about that I didn't see it.


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (vr6swap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6swap* »_The only other question I have is: 
Have you been able to keep the car running long enough for the ECU to adapt? 
Another car I know of (







) ran kinda rough, wouldn't idle ETC until we got the car out and put a some miles on it. 
If you posted anything about that I didn't see it. 

he drove it with the 42lb software with no idle for over 2 weeks


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (ERROL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ERROL* »_
he drove it with the 42lb software with no idle for over 2 weeks 

Did / have you check(ed) for fault codes with the known good MAF / injectors / Eprom? 
And...
Have you tried installing the C2 software in another (known to be good) ECU, to eliminate any possibility of this being a hardware problem instead of software? 
Don't claim you've covered all the bases if you really haven't.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (vr6swap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6swap* »_
Did / have you check(ed) for fault codes with the known good MAF / injectors / Eprom? 


the MAF stayed the same from video 1 and 2. the only changes were MAF *housing*, stock injectors, stock ecu. that's it. 
there were no fault codes while running the stock software

_Quote, originally posted by *vr6swap* »_
And...
Have you tried installing the C2 software in another (known to be good) ECU, to eliminate any possibility of this being a hardware problem instead of software? 



yes we did. it was installed in Errol's computer. that was the first thing we did actually to rule out a bad ECU


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (vr6swap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6swap* »_
Don't claim you've covered all the bases if you really haven't. 


why even post this? this is already a frustrating experience for everyone involved over here. we appreciate your insight, and all of your help troubleshooting, but what's with the attitide? we are trying to figure this out and have had help from almost a dozen people with many many hours spent logging, adjusting and tracing wires to get to this point.
if you think we missed something then please post it, as you have been, but there is no need to stir up emotion.


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## gtimagic (Feb 13, 2002)

well put. lets keep this on track in a positive direction towards getting this resolved & working 100%


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (gtimagic)*

walt, increase the space from filter to MAF like we talked about. 
find a big ass hose, or something.


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## gtimagic (Feb 13, 2002)

PEP Boys has all sorts of these adaptable intake hoses, pipes, fittings , etc by Spectre Performance. I was looking at the reinforced flex tubes yesterday.. in blk or bling


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (gtimagic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtimagic* »_ in blk or bling









made me lol. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

well the chip was next dayed (to the future!) so it should be here any minute. i'm gonna give that a shot first.


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (ERROL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ERROL* »_
why even post this? this is already a frustrating experience for everyone involved over here. we appreciate your insight, and all of your help troubleshooting, but what's with the attitide? we are trying to figure this out and have had help from almost a dozen people with many many hours spent logging, adjusting and tracing wires to get to this point.
if you think we missed something then please post it, as you have been, but there is no need to stir up emotion.

Don't be so quick to snap my head off. Oftentimes people are so ready to blame the software for all their problems they don't bother checking out *all* the possibilities. 
We went through all the problems that you guys have, and more, only to find out the software was fine, it was the ECU that was bad. 
Let us know what happens with the new Eprom. 


_Modified by vr6swap at 3:32 PM 4-4-2008_


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (vr6swap)*

we swapped ecu's as previously stated. you came at us with the "don't claim you've checked everything..." attitude. no one claimed anything. we have simply done everything in our power (sans elongating the distance from the filter to the MAF which Mike brought up after we sent back the chip), and within reason as far as trouble-shooting this thing.
i treat this car like it's my own, and when it idled rock solid after puting back the stock software and injectors, i couldn't imagine it being anything else BUT software, considering everything that we have diagnosed and ruled out. 

*edited for spelling cause i'm ocd like that*


_Modified by ERROL at 2:10 PM 4-4-2008_


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (ERROL)*

lol, i suggested elongating the maf pipe LONG ago sucka!!!


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

Well guys, looks like I just got effed. I was expecting a chip to be delivered today but "the ball was dropped and my package wasnt sent out in enough time to be overnighted". WTF







, Im going away on sunday and wont be back till saturday to see if the new software changes anything or if im still in troubleshooting hell. I was planning to go to SNG and run the track but I guess thats up in the air until the night before.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Jeff is in CT. take a drive. not kidding.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

I have a million things to do before I leave town on sunday and driving to get something that should have been delivered today is not part of my plan. Sorry for coming off like a di<k but this is some ********. I had plans set around this chip being here, thats why it was overnighted. Now everything is all screwed up and im leaving town with this on my mind, its going to erk me till next week. Not fair.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Well im out of town and I had Errol swap my new C2 chip in and still the same old problem. If its the same version as the other 42lb software then it has to be a bad tune. Is anyone else running the newest version of the c2 software?


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## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (vaporado)*

can you swap a set of 30 lb/hr injectors, stock MAF and 30 lb/hr turbo chip and see if it works ?
My 30 lb/hr chip is pretty stable
d


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (fastslc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastslc* »_can you swap a set of 30 lb/hr injectors, stock MAF... 



just to be clear.. we have been running the stock MAF this whole time.. it's the MAF housing we have been changing according to the needs of the software
if we had 30lb injectors and software we would give that a shot, but apparently swapping the chip and injectors isn't enough to isolate this problem








if swapping back the stock chip and injectors makes the car run perfect, then i don't know what the hell to think if we have the c2 software and flow tested 42lb injectors in there, and won't let the car idle.. 
we have a friend who is going to let us use his "old" 42lb file later this week. if the car runs with that software we're just gonna buy him out.lol
if it doesn't run we're just going to sulk and name call


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## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (ERROL)*

this sux


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (L33t A2)*


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (ERROL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ERROL* »_

and flow tested 42lb injectors in there, 


Are these Bosch Green top 42# inj?
or something else?
Got any engine bay pics, to show us what your doing?
Did you get my return email? (to Errol, I think)
Mike is running the EXACT same file you have.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3781670
-Jeffrey Atwood


_Modified by Jefnes3 at 1:17 AM 4-10-2008_


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

i have a solution, but am apparently shunned from this, now WAY BEYOND ME, group. 
glad i had all those late night calls to help. glad i tried.








i have an idea, rather than try the **** i tell you, let's IGNORE me. see where it gets you......


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
Are these Bosch Green top 42# inj?
or something else?
Got any engine bay pics, to show us what your doing?
Did you get my return email? (to Errol, I think)
Mike is running the EXACT same file you have.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3781670
-Jeffrey Atwood

_Modified by Jefnes3 at 1:17 AM 4-10-2008_

I am running the 42lb Deka's (blue ring) I was told they had a better spray pattern and others are using these with no hiccups.I will take engine bay pics sat. when I get back into town and post them. Errol forwarded me the email and I read it last night and everything you mentioned is straight forward and is how I have my hardware setup.


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_i have a solution, but am apparently shunned from this, now WAY BEYOND ME, group. 
glad i had all those late night calls to help. glad i tried.








i have an idea, rather than try the **** i tell you, let's IGNORE me. see where it gets you......


First off nooby I have never disregaurded any advice from you. I value your knowledge and your humor. Youre cool and im gonna get you drunk and take advantage of you at h20







. You have been there to help me out anytime and I greatly appreciate that. I got your back if you need anything from me. What didnt I try that you suggested. Where are all these feelings coming from?


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vaporado* »_
Errol forwarded me the email and I read it last night and everything you mentioned is straight forward and is how I have my hardware setup.

Great...
one exception: NO Bosch Green Tops.
I realize the injectors you have 'may' flow 'better' but, the tune was written specifically using Green Tops. 
Here's the odd part: If the Deka inj. were 'just like' Green tops
they might work with the software correctly, BUT, its because they
are different ('better'







) is the only reason you bought them (perhaps).
Also: be sure ALL error codes are sorted. Low maf code = car runs like crap.

-Jeffrey Atwood




_Modified by Jefnes3 at 9:58 AM 4-10-2008_


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
Great...
one exception: NO Bosch Green Tops.
I realize the injectors you have 'may' flow 'better' but, the tune was written specifically using Green Tops. 
Here's the odd part: If the Deka inj. were 'just like' Green tops
they might work with the software correctly, BUT, its because they
are different ('better'







) is the only reason you bought them (perhaps).
Also: be sure ALL error codes are sorted. Low maf code = car runs like crap.

-Jeffrey Atwood
_Modified by Jefnes3 at 9:58 AM 4-10-2008_

Well would the 42lb Deka's cause an idle like this? I originally had 630cc inj with your 30lb file and it idled and wouldnt drop off on decel, it ran rich as hell but it wouldnt just die and thats a hell of an extreme. Also we cleaed the codes when we went back to stock fueling and through zero codes. When we went back to the 42lb fueling we only through a low signal to knock sensor 1 code. The MAF code hasnt shown up even before we tried the stock fueling setup.


_Modified by vaporado at 11:12 AM 4-10-2008_


----------



## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: (vaporado)*

I have a local gti that is giving us "fits" as well. I have tracked it down to a TPS with a mind of its own. it will randomly jump to "Part Throttle" mode at idle, and will read full throttle for a second and then drop back to part throttle while at WOT....

Question in idle , does the vacume and A/F bounce before it stalls?
I had a dirty D/V and it would "hang" l, causing it to hunt and stall...cleaned and lubed problem solved. (old tune)
I'm not sure if the decell trim can be tweeked on the new files without messing it all up , but if its loading up on fuel and stalling , pulling several ## out on the decell trim "could" see if thats the issue.
Also Jeff, had me "reset" the ECU to factory defaults, if you have a new chip , and had adjusted the trims prevoiusly they need to be reset....believe trims need to be at 128, ask Jeff to confirm..


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (mikebobelak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mikebobelak* »_I have a local gti that is giving us "fits" as well. I have tracked it down to a TPS with a mind of its own. it will randomly jump to "Part Throttle" mode at idle, and will read full throttle for a second and then drop back to part throttle while at WOT....

Question in idle , does the vacume and A/F bounce before it stalls?
I had a dirty D/V and it would "hang" l, causing it to hunt and stall...cleaned and lubed problem solved. (old tune)
I'm not sure if the decell trim can be tweeked on the new files without messing it all up , but if its loading up on fuel and stalling , pulling several ## out on the decell trim "could" see if thats the issue.
Also Jeff, had me "reset" the ECU to factory defaults, if you have a new chip , and had adjusted the trims prevoiusly they need to be reset....believe trims need to be at 128, ask Jeff to confirm..


a/f's do not get jumpy before the cars die, they go a little rich trying to keep itself alive I guess. We have tried changing values through vagcom for idle and decel with little to no change. I am using a BOV that in re-circulated behind the MAF about 10" and the BOV is set at its softest setting. It is a new BOV so I dont think cleaning it is gonna matter.


_Modified by vaporado at 1:11 PM 4-10-2008_


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

Walt, a side note, I believe you and I are running the same injectors, the Lucas/Delphi flow matched 42#/440cc set from Racetronix.com
http://www.racetronix.com/621031FM.html
These are the same ones that USRT sells as a cheaper alternative to their Genesis line of injectors and seem to recommend them as better than the Bosch 42#/440cc


----------



## gtimagic (Feb 13, 2002)

my current c2 chip will stall on decel unless I unplug the ISV. (30# coilpack, OBD1, SC) 
I know yours is totally different & U dont have an ISV, so I cant offer any more than whats already been mentioned. 

Bump here's another BumP for ya.


----------



## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
Are these Bosch Green top 42# inj?
or something else?
Got any engine bay pics, to show us what your doing?
Did you get my return email? (to Errol, I think)
Mike is running the EXACT same file you have.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3781670
-Jeffrey Atwood


i didn't even consider that the file was written to that specific brand injector. i'm not sure that we were aware of this.
and yes i got your email. thank you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . i was just waiting for walt to get back into town before sending you back any new info..
we'll get some current engine bay pics on saturday..


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (ERROL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ERROL* »_
i didn't even consider that the file was written to that specific brand injector. i'm not sure that we were aware of this.


Thats why I put such things in the instructions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Jeffrey Atwood


----------



## CorradoMagic (Apr 11, 2008)

if I have time I will try the MAF extension this wkend. my piping is 3" though.


----------



## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (CorradoMagic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoMagic* »_if I have time I will try the MAF extension this wkend. my piping is 3" though. 

is this your alter ego Keith?LOL
yeah as soon as i pick up Mr. Vapo from the airport today i'm sure we'll get down to priorities..


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (ERROL)*

word, whens he gettin in?


----------



## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (L33t A2)*

i'm picking up his Majesty at 6 pm..lol


----------



## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (ERROL)*

i just got the updated 42# obd2 VR6 software from them and mine idles low like your saying also. and it has stalled on me several times. i'm at work now and just read this thread but i'm unable to watch your videos of what yours is doing, but i will when i get home tonight. but it sounds like my and your car are acting the same. i have no faults, both o2 sensors plugged in. i have adapted the throttle body several times using VAS 5052. have put roughly 500 miles on the new chip and it wants to idle low and cut-off. i do run the bosch green tops that they say use. i figured it was just the price you pay for aftermarket stuff??


----------



## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (evilgti84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilgti84* »_i just got the updated 42# obd2 VR6 software from them and mine idles low like your saying also. and it has stalled on me several times. i'm at work now and just read this thread but i'm unable to watch your videos of what yours is doing, but i will when i get home tonight. but it sounds like my and your car are acting the same. i have no faults, both o2 sensors plugged in. i have adapted the throttle body several times using VAS 5052. have put roughly 500 miles on the new chip and it wants to idle low and cut-off. i do run the bosch green tops that they say use. i figured it was just the price you pay for aftermarket stuff??










did you have their older version before you installed this one, or is this a fresh install?


----------



## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (ERROL)*

i had a older version that was about a year and a half old. it idled much better in my opinion


----------



## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (evilgti84)*

ok, well i just watched the video of the 42lb idle problem your having and mine is not that bad. mine will just cut off sometimes coming to a stop.


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (evilgti84)*

deleted old engine bay pics to avoid confusion










_Modified by vaporado at 11:43 PM 4-12-2008_


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Put a K&N cone filter on the front of the MAF housing.








RU-2520
http://www.jegs.com/i/K&N/599/...T=999
Its not to 'filter' the air....
not having one messes with the MAF sensor signal.

-Jeff


_Modified by Jefnes3 at 10:25 PM 4-12-2008_


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

Those were pics for reference to show where things landed in my setup, I have the K&N filter on now I just didnt for those pics. (no difference in idle with or without







) Heres a pic from tonight with the K&N filter


----------



## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Now that I've seen pics of your install, I don't think it's the software. 
Clean that mess up and see if your problems don't magically disappear.


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (vr6swap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6swap* »_Now that I've seen pics of your install, I don't think it's the software. 
Clean that mess up and see if your problems don't magically disappear. 

What mess are you referring to?


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## CorradoMagic (Apr 11, 2008)

what mess?


----------



## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (vr6swap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6swap* »_Now that I've seen pics of your install, I don't think it's the software. 
Clean that mess up and see if your problems don't magically disappear. 


WTF are you talking about?? where do you see mess??
















there is not a single wire out of place.



_Modified by ERROL at 8:44 PM 4-12-2008_


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (ERROL)*

Heres an engine bay shot of how it sits now (all messy)








Thanks for all the enlightenment vr6swap, tomorrow I will clean up my mess and magically drive to SNG tomorrow and run down the 1/4 mile. I cant believe thats all it took to fix my problem. I dont know how to repay you for all your great advice.


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vaporado)*

there is a spec of dirt by the windsheild. that could be your problem.


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

Through in Bosch 42ln green tops. No change what so ever. Its running like crap just like before. WTF


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## brilliantyellowg60 (Aug 30, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vaporado* »_Through in Bosch 42ln green tops. No change what so ever. Its running like crap just like before. WTF









i doubt it is chip or injector related
there are hundreds of people running the c2 42lb file without these issues
tried a different throttle body?


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (brilliantyellowg60)*

Yup I have tried different TB's with no change.


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

it's funny how everybody swears it's one thing or the other, then they dissapear.
here's a quick breakdown while i have a moment.
My car is the running donor car with no check engine light or faults.. that being said it is also the guinnea pig.
we've tried to troubleshoot everything scientifically (within reason.. which is a disclaimer i understand that)to avoid overlapping any potential solutions
*we run perfect at idle with stock chip and injectors*
we have no faults stored in the ECU at this time
we've swapped throttle bodies
we've swapped walts software into my ecu to eliminate a bad ecu.
we've swapped his MAF with mine to eliminate a bad MAF
we have NO vacuum leaks; 22hg at idle
we have now installed 42# bosch injectors instead of his other injectors which supposedly were the route of all evil.
fuel pressure is adjusted to c2 spec (with vacuum line off for adjustment)
if this was your car, and it ran perfect with the stock chip and injectors(you put these in to eliminate any potentially faulty hardware ), then you put in your new software and injectors and the car won't idle, what else would you check?
help


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (ERROL)*

i say it is still maf related. 
go a head, tell em i'm wrong. 
start car. unplug TPS after car is warm. what happens?
start car. unplug o2 after warm, what happens?
(these are rhetorical, i know what happend)
car then runs solely off maf, and falls on it's face. maf = issue.


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

why is there one gray plug wire?


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## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

one thing u can do is
take MAF, 42 lb/hr injectors and complete ECU + box and put it on ERROL's car.. then drive off boost .. 
the car should run... if it does not stall then u know what's up !
d


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (fastslc)*

i'm having problems with my two week old C2 42lb chip also. i'm pulling my hair out trying to get it resolved so i know what you guys are going through. mine will not get the AFR below 14.0 under boost, doesn't matter how much boost you run. i have been doing 9lbs with a stock fuel pump, took the inline out of the loop, 3 bar FPR and all the approved C2 parts. and the tech support is not the best in the business.


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (evilgti84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilgti84* »_i'm having problems with my two week old C2 42lb chip also. i'm pulling my hair out trying to get it resolved so i know what you guys are going through. mine will not get the AFR below 14.0 under boost, doesn't matter how much boost you run. i have been doing 9lbs with a stock fuel pump, took the inline out of the loop, 3 bar FPR and all the approved C2 parts. and the tech support is not the best in the business.

pm sent.


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (fastslc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastslc* »_one thing u can do is
take MAF, 42 lb/hr injectors and complete ECU + box and put it on ERROL's car.. then drive off boost .. 
the car should run... if it does not stall then u know what's up !
d


good idea David http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (fastslc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastslc* »_one thing u can do is
take MAF, 42 lb/hr injectors and complete ECU + box and put it on ERROL's car.. then drive off boost .. 
the car should run... if it does not stall then u know what's up !
d


funny you should mention this. walt and i were mulling this over today..
i'd have to pick up some gaskets and stuff before we pull my manifold. lord knows how many of the 190k miles it's been on there without removal..

his MAF actually did come from my car tho, and i've been running his for a few weeks.. but i get what you're saying for sure.


----------



## vwpunk (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (ERROL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ERROL* »_
funny you should mention this. walt and i were mulling this over today..
i'd have to pick up some gaskets and stuff before we pull my manifold. lord knows how many of the 190k miles it's been on there without removal..

his MAF actually did come from my car tho, and i've been running his for a few weeks.. but i get what you're saying for sure.

Lets do it Saturday:thumbup:


----------



## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (vwpunk)*

i told myself i wasn't going to post this yet because i'm supposed to be spending time with the old lady..
we swapped out the 42 lb file and installed it into my ecu again.results = same same..
here's the kicker tho.. we installed my stock chip into walts ecu with NO OTHER CHANGES. 42lb injectors,4" MAF housing remained in his car. and the car idled DEAD ON. it revved normal(we didn't drive it, or rev past 4k or so) and decel'd just like stock with no stalling..

we installed his 42lb file into my car just for giggles and it idled at a measly 500 rpm or so.. just like it does in his car..


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (ERROL)*

crap !








cannot u get someone's 42 lb/hr chip and try it in both cars ?
maybe the file got corrupted during the burn ?


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (fastslc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastslc* »_crap !








cannot u get someone's 42 lb/hr chip and try it in both cars ?
maybe the file got corrupted during the burn ? 

they sent it back and got a new/reflash one, same results


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (L33t A2)*

actually c2 sent me a new one. I have 2 chips of theyre's. Reminds me I have ship that it outs in my van ready to go. oops.


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (vaporado)*

this sucks


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (vaporado)*


----------



## NVmyVW (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (ERROL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ERROL* »_i told myself i wasn't going to post this yet because i'm supposed to be spending time with the old lady..
we swapped out the 42 lb file and installed it into my ecu again.results = same same..
here's the kicker tho.. we installed my stock chip into walts ecu with NO OTHER CHANGES. 42lb injectors,4" MAF housing remained in his car. and the car idled DEAD ON. it revved normal(we didn't drive it, or rev past 4k or so) and decel'd just like stock with no stalling..

we installed his 42lb file into my car just for giggles and it idled at a measly 500 rpm or so.. just like it does in his car..









I read this, so dont chastize me when i ask this question.
Have all the TB's youve swapped in have had a cracked tps? have you used Errols tb? have you checked the wiring going to your TPS?
it sounds throttle body related to me. ive had similiar problems in NA vr6's, and my s4 always resulting in a replaced Tps


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (NVmyVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NVmyVW* »_
I read this, so dont chastize me when i ask this question.
Have all the TB's youve swapped in have had a cracked tps? have you used Errols tb? have you checked the wiring going to your TPS?
it sounds throttle body related to me. ive had similiar problems in NA vr6's, and my s4 always resulting in a replaced Tps

Yes both have had a cracked TPS on the housing but both tb's work normally with a stock chip. You can see it adjusting itself on decels and then with the 42lb chip when you decel and watch the TB it barely moves and the car stalls out.


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## brilliantyellowg60 (Aug 30, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vaporado* »_
Yes both have had a cracked TPS on the housing but both tb's work normally with a stock chip. You can see it adjusting itself on decels and then with the 42lb chip when you decel and watch the TB it barely moves and the car stalls out.

put a good tb on


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (brilliantyellowg60)*

I will be getting a TB soon.


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## NVmyVW (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vaporado* »_
Yes both have had a cracked TPS on the housing but both tb's work normally with a stock chip. You can see it adjusting itself on decels and then with the 42lb chip when you decel and watch the TB it barely moves and the car stalls out.

I could see how that makes sense to you. but a cracked tps is a cracked tps. The logic im seeing here is, when the car is running right (ie first start up, under boost/full throttle) your not asking the tps to do anything. But once you ask it to do something, like find idle or sense partial throttle, it doesnt do it. 
Dont forget in the obd 2 TB there is a stepper motor AND a TPS. your stepper motor takes the place of the isv, its probably fine, and your TPS is probably broken.


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (NVmyVW)*

Installed another TB in perfect working condition, no cracks and same results. I took it to ForceFed and Joe and Kevin Black looked at it and they said this looks software related.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Paul is working on something too, different issue, but similar (potential) remedy.......
i am running out of ideas obviously........
(5:06 PM 4-18-2008) evilgti84: have talked on the phone to Chris at C2. we are going to try one more thing to see waht happens, but i run a full 4" intake system and 4" inlet on my turbo. most people run a 3" after the maf housing and 3" inlet on there turbo, so the air speed coming across the maf sensor is faster. so i'm going to try something that C2 asked to compensate for this. thanks, Paul
Paul, sorry for quoting our IM convo, but i think we all can benefit from sharing ideas.


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vaporado* »_Installed another TB in perfect working condition, no cracks and same results. I took it to ForceFed and Joe and Kevin Black looked at it and they said this looks software related.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_Paul is working on something too, different issue, but similar (potential) remedy.......
i am running out of ideas obviously........
(5:06 PM 4-18-2008) evilgti84: have talked on the phone to Chris at C2. we are going to try one more thing to see waht happens, but i run a full 4" intake system and 4" inlet on my turbo. most people run a 3" after the maf housing and 3" inlet on there turbo, so the air speed coming across the maf sensor is faster. so i'm going to try something that C2 asked to compensate for this. thanks, Paul
Paul, sorry for quoting our IM convo, but i think we all can benefit from sharing ideas. 

we tried a whole slew of MAF combinations such as ; a reducer from the 4" compressor housing to the MAF, the stock MAF housing, extended distance from MAF to filter, and extended distance from compressor housing to MAF, and everywhere in between..


_Modified by ERROL at 1:40 PM 4-21-2008_


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## CorradoMagic (Apr 11, 2008)

seems like there are no more possible combinations to try other than different software ??


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (ERROL)*

yeah, the 4" to 3" reducer i made this weekend for my set-up made no difference to my problem.
still pulling my hair out trying to figure it out.


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (evilgti84)*

^are you an obd2 vr originally or are you a obd2 conversion like me?


----------



## NVmyVW (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vaporado* »_Installed another TB in perfect working condition, no cracks and same results. I took it to ForceFed and Joe and Kevin Black looked at it and they said this looks software related.

hmmf. oh well i treid


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (NVmyVW)*

^thanks bro, I really appreciate you trying.


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

original obd2 vr


----------



## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (ERROL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ERROL* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
we tried a whole slew of MAF combinations such as ; a reducer from the 4" compressor housing to the MAF, the stock MAF housing, extended distance from MAF to filter, and extended distance from compressor housing to MAF, and everywhere in between..

_Modified by ERROL at 1:40 PM 4-21-2008_

as mentioned, i am running out of ideas.


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## NVmyVW (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vaporado* »_^thanks bro, I really appreciate you trying.









the only other thing i can suggest is find someone local that has a different or same verison obd2 C2 ecu thats in a running car and swap it into yours. thats really the only way to isolate the ecu/chip.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (NVmyVW)*

^BahnStormer202 is sending vwpunk his 42lb obd2 chip that ran great in his car and im going to try it in my ecu. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (vaporado)*

thanks Simon for letting me use your c2 42lb chip. It actually worked better than my chip. It was able to idle normal and decel without stalling out or babying the throttle. It is an older chip so it still has the SAI and uses the rear o2 sensor which I have the SAI deleted and I am running the o2 before the cat (as per the new c2 tune). At boost my AFR's are at 13 to 13.5. When coming off the throttle the TB hunts for idle for a minute and then it figures itself out and idles perfect. We didnt do a TB adaptation or messed with the decel trims but it definitely made a difference for the better.


----------



## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

nice, just get the new chip and it sounds like you may be good to go


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (jhayesvw)*

^I have the new chip and thats where my problems start.


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (vaporado)*

I borrowed bahnstormer202's c2 42lb file that was customized for him and my car idle's normal and decel'd no problem. We just had to do a TB adaptation. My AFR'S are good and general drivability is awesome. My whole problem this whole time has been a chip, so many hours and $'s spent.


----------



## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

so what did C2 do to help you?


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vaporado* »_^I have the new chip and thats where my problems start.

i meant one like the one you borrowed. sorry for the confusion.


----------



## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (evilgti84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilgti84* »_so what did C2 do to help you?

Jeff at C2 has sent me a tweaked file that I will try tonight, I havent had a chance to work on my car I have been busy.

_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_
i meant one like the one you borrowed. sorry for the confusion.

I used bahnstormer202's chip it was a slightly older version of what I bought originally and that chip worked pretty good.


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

keep me informed. i have been having problems with there new chip and i found someone local this week that had a chip that was one year old, he bought it from C2 at waterfest last year so his chip doesn't have the (encrypter). put his chip in and my car runs flawless with his chip.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (evilgti84)*

the new chip sucked. same friggen problem. car went from running good on bahnstormer202's chip to installing this new chip from C2 and its not deceling again. TB adapted starts up fine. It idles for a bit, then it lowers in RPM you hit the gas and let it go and it falls on its face unless you baby the sh!t out of it. fu<k this is pissing me off


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## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (vaporado)*

thats ****in bull**** dude


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (evilgti84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilgti84* »_keep me informed. i have been having problems with there new chip and i found someone local this week that had a chip that was one year old, he bought it from C2 at waterfest last year so his chip doesn't have the (encrypter). put his chip in and my car runs flawless with his chip. 

hmm...


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Like we arranged before.
Bring me the car so I can sort it in person.

The 'new' chip you have is copy of file you say 'works fine'....
-Jeff


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

i sent emails to jeff and chris friday morning stating what i had found running the other chip in my car, and have yet to get a return email from either of them. i'm sorry your chip jeff sent you didn't work. but something here is not making sense to me.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (evilgti84)*

well the chip isnt exactly the chip I got from bahnstormer. I didnt have to use a middle board for his and the file he has actually worked.
Car was actually dropped off today at Sleepers so Jeff can go over it. 


_Modified by vaporado at 9:36 PM 5-10-2008_


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

exactly the same situation. my new chip has the middle board, doesn't run correctly. now i'm using a friends chip (no middle board) and the car runs flawless.
i'm wondering if the middle board is causing the problems?


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (evilgti84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilgti84* »_exactly the same situation. my new chip has the middle board, doesn't run correctly. now i'm using a friends chip (no middle board) and the car runs flawless.
i'm wondering if the middle board is causing the problems?

What middle board are you talking about? It's obd2 vr6 correct? I have been watching this post for a while


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*

yes. VR6 OBD2

it comes with the new chip from C2. pretty sure they call it a encrypter. it's like a extension off the ecm socket.


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (evilgti84)*

I got the latest updtae for their chip (no air pump or rear o2)....sent my old one in + cash and mine is just the chip. I haven't run it with the new motor yet but hopefully soon. Vag com reads the chip fine.


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*

that's strange. how long ago did you get your new chip? i got my new chip with the middle block about the beginning of april from them.


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (evilgti84)*

August 2007 according to my records.


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*

the one i have in my car which i borrowed from a friend he got in july of last year, got it from C2 at waterfest. his chip which works flawless in my car doesn't have the middle block.


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (evilgti84)*

Can't you just get one without the board?


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*

i would try it, but C2 is not responding to my emails or im's as of friday so far.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (evilgti84)*

My car is getting some love at Sleepers. I melted the oil return line from the turbo while cruising to Eurofest with vwpunk. Although it was a sh!tty problem I got to drop it off at Sleepers so Jeff from C2 could go over it. After speaking with Jeff prior to dropping it off, I didnt properly go through the steps described in the directions. I did not give the chip enought time to adapt itself before I did a TB adaptation that is recommended *not *to do because it erases important values. I ended up borrowing a chip vwpunk bought and ran it in my ecu. At first the car seemed alright but after an hour of driving I couldnt decel and thats about when the oil line melted. Holy smoke (literally). Cant wait to get the machine back, running right and also find out what the issue was. Thanks to Jeff, Chris and the guys at Sleepers for getting my car figured out.










_Modified by vaporado at 2:09 PM 5-12-2008_


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Got a great call this morning from Chris @ C2. After hours of Jeff tuning my car he has resolved my decel /idle issue. How Chris explained it to me and I hope I got this right. What was happening is that my MAF was to close to the compressor of the turbo because of the 4" diameter plumbing from the MAF to the compressor. It was causing almost a surge effect because of the turbo noise that was being back fed to the MAF. I was told no chip tune out of the box would have fixed this. Jeff spent over 4hrs of his personal time to take care of my car. I am so thankful. Now I cant wait to drive the car, finally. woo hoo.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vaporado)*

this thread makes me happy!!!!!!!!!!
glad to hear the good nooz bro!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

Jeff and Chris really went out of theyre way to help me out. Im grateful.


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Was it a hardware fix then? Move the MAF further away from the turbo?


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

Well it was impossible to move the MAF further away because my IC piping runs right in front of the air filter and theres no room. Jeff had to do adjusting within the program.


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (vaporado)*

I hope I don't have the same problem with my new setup. 4" from the MAF to the turbo..........my tube is about 4" longer and has a full swept 90 going into the turbo. I guess we will see shortly.


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (evilgti84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilgti84* »_i would try it, but C2 is not responding to my emails or im's as of friday so far.

You sent me an email that said "just keeping you in the loop"...I didn't realize you were looking for a response from me?????


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

The issues due to set-up STILL exist.
I did not do any mech. or fab work to the car.
I custom tuned the idle control to keep the car from stalling.
Sleepers is repairing a melted oil return line, that was resting/metling on the DP.
-Jeffrey Atwood


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

PM sent jeff. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_The issues due to set-up STILL exist.
I did not do any mech. or fab work to the car.
I custom tuned the idle control to keep the car from stalling.
Sleepers is repairing a melted oil return line, that was resting/metling on the DP.
-Jeffrey Atwood

The oil line that melted happened on the way up to Ct, first time the car has been on the road that long since turbo install. Im not sure what needs to be addressed hardware wise. If I remember correctly now that im thinking about it. We tried extending the MAF further away from the turbo without the recirc and evap adapter. I tried getting the air filter further away from the MAF and I also tried moving the MAF closer to the turbo. The only thing that changed was when I moved the MAF closer to the turbo, it ran even worse. What I dont understand is how the chip I used from bahnstormer worked without any tweaking or changes in my hardware setup?


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_ I custom tuned the idle control to keep the car from stalling.
Sleepers is repairing a melted oil return line, that was resting/metling on the DP.
-Jeffrey Atwood

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## evilgti84 (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

Chris, sorry for the miscommunication on my part. Jeff and i are talking through email again, i guess one of my email accounts isn't working correctly and i'm using another to talk to Jeff again. 
Guys, don't take me the wrong way here. C2 in my opinion is doing AWESOME things with there software and i HIGHLY recommend them to anyone. Jeff is working to resolve my concerns and i'm sure we will figure it out.


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## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (vaporado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vaporado* »_What I dont understand is how the chip I used from bahnstormer worked without any tweaking or changes in my hardware setup?

It dont matta cause you got the most balla **** eva


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (L33t A2)*

Thanks


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## dapucker1 (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_The issues due to set-up STILL exist.
I did not do any mech. or fab work to the car.
I custom tuned the idle control to keep the car from stalling.
Sleepers is repairing a melted oil return line, that was resting/metling on the DP.
-Jeffrey Atwood

pm sent


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_The issues due to set-up STILL exist.
I did not do any mech. or fab work to the car.
I custom tuned the idle control to keep the car from stalling.
Sleepers is repairing a melted oil return line, that was resting/metling on the DP.
-Jeffrey Atwood


i don't understand how the hardware on this car could have been set up differently to accommodate the operating parameters of your software. can you elaborate please?the car was/is at Sleepers to address any and all hardware or software issues once and for all. from what i understand, it was determined by the shop that there is nothing wrong with the hardware.

why do you feel it necessary to add that an oil line melted and Sleepers is repairing it? what does this have to do with the solution to this software problem? it seems like you are trying to discredit Walt and his build in your post, yet it's a whole other story on the phone.
-errol-


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (ERROL)*

wow, how fast was that deleted huh chris?


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (ERROL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ERROL* »_
i don't understand how the hardware on this car could have been set up differently to accommodate the operating parameters of your software. can you elaborate please?


The intake prior to the turbo is incorrectly configured.
What's happening is the same thing that occurs on SC cars because the MAF sensor is to close the turbo compressor. Turbulence from the compressor is seen by the MAF as additional airflow, so excess fuel is added. When car starts its all fine. Rev it up, turbo spools, fubar MAF signal, car runs like poop. Hold throttle with foot a bit, to allow turbo to spool down, car will idle fine. Cluch-in from above ~2k rpm, turbo is spooled, fubar MAF readings, car runs like poop.....
When the car is driving the engine 'consumes' enough air to keep these
affects away from the sensor.


_Quote, originally posted by *ERROL* »_
the car was/is at Sleepers to address any and all hardware or software issues once and for all. from what i understand, it was determined by the shop that there is nothing wrong with the hardware.


NOT completely correct. The car went to Sleepers as a FAVOR to me (and Walt), so I could evaluate Walt's issue in person.
Sleepers is ONLY involved as a place to keep the car. 
Sleepers made NO assesments or judgments of the intake set-up.
You are welcome to contact Jamie, I am sure he would be happy to give his opinion.
If Walt chooses to have Sleepers build/fabricate/wash/vaccum/shine,
'stuff' on his car this is between them.


_Quote, originally posted by *ERROL* »_
why do you feel it necessary to add that an oil line melted and Sleepers is repairing it? 


Simply to indicate why Walt has not taken delivery of his car.


_Quote, originally posted by *ERROL* »_
what does this have to do with the solution to this software problem? it seems like you are trying to discredit Walt and his build in your post, yet it's a whole other story on the phone.


Nothing.
I have no way to control how others interpret what I type.
If I intended to discredit Walt, I would have done so:
Hypothetically, like this:
refusing to work on his car,
refunding his money, (maybe not)
'name calling' the quality of the car/set-up....

-Jeffrey Atwood




_Modified by Jefnes3 at 5:48 PM 5-14-2008_


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

first off thank you for the detailed response http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . 


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
The intake prior to the turbo is incorrectly configured.
What's happening is the same thing that occurs on SC cars because the MAF sensor is to close the turbo compressor. Turbulence from the compressor is seen by the MAF as additional airflow, so excess fuel is added. When car starts its all fine. Rev it up, turbo spools, fubar MAF signal, car runs like poop. Hold throttle with foot a bit, to allow turbo to spool down, car will idle fine. Cluch-in from above ~2k rpm, turbo is spooled, fubar MAF readings, car runs like poop.....
When the car is driving the engine 'consumes' enough air to keep these
affects away from the sensor.


i understand the theory you're referring to with the MAF distance thing, but why would every other chip that we've tried not exhibit this problem? i mean we even ran stock software with the 42 lb injectors and 4" MAF to turbo setup exactly as it sits on the car now.
we've changed every distance you've spoke of including pushing the MAF further from the compressor inlet, we even installed a reducer since the 4" turbo inlet isn't the norm as far as the normal c2 42# cars..

_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
NOT completely correct. The car went to Sleepers as a FAVOR to me (and Walt), so I could evaluate Walt's issue in person.
Sleepers is ONLY involved as a place to keep the car. 
Sleepers made NO assesments or judgments of the intake set-up.
You are welcome to contact Jamie, I am sure he would be happy to give his opinion. 

i apologize. i was under the assumption that if there was a hardware issue then that would be taken care of as well. if it's just a MAF distance thing then why can't it just be fixed instead of altering software?

_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_Simply to indicate why Walt has not taken delivery of his car. 

Walt had already posted that he blew an oil line on the drive up. no one was questioning why he hadn't taken delivery of the car.

_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
I have no way to control how others interpret what I type. 

you caps lock'd STILL, as in he STILL has a hardware/setup issue, then you add that he's getting the line repaired because it was resting on the downpipe. 
in case you were unaware, people who type in caps are doing so to indicate either anger, or to exaggerate a point. it's too hard to gauge anyone's true intent while typing, but typing in caps, and "quoting" is a sure-fire way to indicate emotion.


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## dapucker1 (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: (ERROL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ERROL* »_if it's just a MAF distance thing then why can't it just be fixed instead of altering software?

exactly what was thought too, but you may considering that the software was written for a 3" inlet instead of 4"


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (dapucker1)*

^true but I was told by a few people that any air after the MAF doesnt matter because it has already been scanned (for lack of a better term)


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

good night Decel thread. you've created disturbances in my PMA all day. i'll rejoin you tomorrow when all is better with the world


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vaporado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vaporado* »_^true but I was told by a few people

metered air is metered air. i was one of "those people" that told walt that. 
i will accept responsibility for that walt, you are not at fault. i am. 
in ~ 90 % of the setups i have done in the last 14 months (which is MANY) there is no issue. however, your 4" inlet may very well have been my downfall: all of mine have been 3". 
also, i have spent more time on this car than one could imagine (remotely of course) and am confident with the build. any hardware "issues" should be called "differences" and thus not looked down upon (sans the WG dump, that's just dum







) 
regardless, we have a wealth of knowledge here, and for ANYONE to discredit it would be blasphemous. 
like errol, i too am out.


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

the Rado is home and holds idle and decel's. thanks C2 and Sleepers. I will take care of moving the filter and MAF this weekend and post up results.


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vaporado* »_the Rado is home and holds idle and decel's. thanks C2 and Sleepers. I will take care of moving the filter and MAF this weekend and post up results.

wait, but if you move it, won't they have to rewrite the software?


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## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: (vaporado)*

Not to stir a pot, but Jeff's statment about the S/C and larger turbine "sucking" more air than needed got me thinking. 
Could the D/V also be passing more air? I remember the D/V return pipe extending into the intake and directed at the inpeller(S/C kit) to keep the recirculated air from altering the MAF readings...????


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (ERROL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ERROL* »_
wait, but if you move it, won't they have to rewrite the software?

thats a good dang question


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (vaporado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vaporado* »_
thats a good dang question

no. the issue is because the software was written for NO turbulance.. you eliminate that by moving it, and it will be back to "stock" (off the shelf per se) tune. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

thanks^


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (vaporado)*

i don't get it. it seems like your saying that if we move the MAF further away, then this would require a stock(not stock, but off the shelf as you say) tune? but since C2 already altered his software by custom tuning the decel values and what not for his current hardware setup, won't they have to return it to the original non-turbulence values? or can the ECU adjust for the minor changes?
thanks Mike http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (ERROL)*

if there is still an issue, and therefore the need to alter the system mechanically to correct it, i would say that Jeff did not alter THAT part of the tune. 
make sense?


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## ERROL (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_if there is still an issue, and therefore the need to alter the system mechanically to correct it, i would say that Jeff did not alter THAT part of the tune. 
make sense? 

did you speak to walt?







..
but yeah i think i get what you're saying..


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (ERROL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ERROL* »_
did you speak to walt?







..
*yeah*








but yeah i think i get what you're saying..
*werd son*


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## vaporado (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

4" extension for MAF installed today. The car is running awesome. I will post pics of the extension I used. It is 4" all the way through still but I got the filter and MAF right behind the headlight. The car idles and decel's perfectly. Boost is excellent. wow







Big Thanks to everyone who helped me out during this whole episode.


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