# New 2.5L vs old VR6



## Vee Dub Nut (Oct 22, 2002)

Ok.. so my 00 MkIV GTi is getting on up there in age and miles, and I'm doing some shopping around for its replacement. 
Long story short I'm looking at several cars and the Rabbit has a big appeal for the $$ factor. I can get a nicely equipped 4d Rabbit for less thank 20k, as compared to the 25k and up GTi's, and that 32k Bullit Mustang I drove








What intrigues me about the Rabbit is the 2.5L I5, which is said to produce 170 hp and 177 ft-lbs of torque. From the specs when my GTi VR6 was new, it only produced 173hp and 180 ft-lbs of torque. 
My question is are they at all comparable. Yea the numbers look good, but I don't have a dyno plot of either to compare. I realize that the Rabbit is not a GTi.. but it doesnt seem like it would be a turd to drive after owning and driving my GTi for 5 years... I'm planning to go back to the dealer and test drive the Rabbit... Just thought I'd ask here too
Thoughts? 
Oh yea.. I know some folks will say just pony up the money and buy the GTi for the extra price.. but both my car and my wifes need replacement, so I'm trying to keep the costs down 


_Modified by Vee Dub Nut at 7:18 PM 6-2-2008_


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## cbrabbit (May 22, 2007)

*Re: New 2.5L vs old VR6 (Vee Dub Nut)*

i have never driven a VR6 so i don't know exactly what your coming from , also whether or not your into alotta performance mods would be a factor, but i love my 2.5L, it has plenty of torque and i couldn't be happier with the payments. Plus i keep up with stock mk4 gti's so its not that big of a step down i guess you could say, i think it would be pretty similar to what you had before, just my two cents.
The only complaint i have with my 2.5L is the little bit of lag it has in between gears


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## VAGMeister (Sep 7, 2005)

I had a '95 GTI VR6 before I purchased my Rabbit. The VR6 was bone stock and my Rabbit has GIAC software and a VF-Engineering CIA. I can tell you that my VR6 was definitely faster, not terribly faster, but the 2.5 just doesnt pull on the top end like a VR6.


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## cbrabbit (May 22, 2007)

*Re: (VAGMeister)*

not saying that your statement may not be true as i am sure weight is a consideration, but the 95 vr6 gti specs were 172 hp and 173 ft-lbs with a curb weight of 2818 lbs., the 08 rabbits come with 170 hp and 177 ft-lbs with a curb weight of 2975 lbs. with a 2door , so it doesn't make any sense how a vr6 is definitly faster especially when the rabbit has software and a cai. Maybe it just felt faster or sumthn.


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## Idleone (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: New 2.5L vs old VR6 (Vee Dub Nut)*

I had a 2000 12v VR6 GTI and am now driving a 2.5 5I Rabbit. My VR6 was a manual while the Rabbit is a 6 speed automatic. I can't tell the any difference driving, between the 2 of them. But I can say that the Rabbit has less maintenance issues than the GTI (window regulators, ignition coils, 2ndary air flow, etc.). And I can get 32 mpg on the highways with the Rabbit while I was getting 26 with the VR6.
The only thing I miss about my GTI is the sound of the VR6 coming through a Magnaflow cat back system. I'm running a GHL cat back on the Rabbit and it just doesn't sound the same...








All in all, I'd say my MK V Rabbit is a better car than my MK IV VR6 GTI.


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## Vee Dub Nut (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: New 2.5L vs old VR6 (Idleone)*

Cool... this is the kind of info I'm looking for
Anyone else? 
I know there will be some differences.. but I'm just trying to make sure that I don't end up disappointed with the Rabbit. My GTi is completely stock, and the Rabbit will likely stay that way too. I'm a big aircooled guy so all my free cash goes there..


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: New 2.5L vs old VR6 (Vee Dub Nut)*

I used to have a 1995 VR6 Passat GLX 5-Speed, and I just drove a 2008 Rabbit 2-Door 5-Speed two weeks ago, and while it's been a while since I've been in the Passat, I'd say the Rabbit was a bit faster. Granted the Rabbit is 165 pounds lighter than the old Passat, but then I had a 250 lb salesman as well as my two kids (totaling another 250 pounds) with me on the test drive, so all-in-all, the Passat was lighter and the Rabbit still felt quicker. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
To the guy who compared his 2006 Rabbit to a VR6 GTI, remember, your Rabbit (CAI and chip not withstanding) doesn't put out the same power as the 2008 engine. I'm thinking that if you drove a new car, you'd find it every bit a match for your older GTI.


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## a3vr (May 27, 2005)

*FV-QR*

2000 gti will be faster, but not by much. The rabbit has good torque down low but lacks compared to a vr6 up top. For daily driving its great, if you want to go fast its not....unless you get a turbo.


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (a3vr)*

Get the rabbit, but slap an intake on it. I know it's not stock but that one part makes it such a fun and driveable car, IMO. mine has been great to me.


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (a3vr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *a3vr* »_2000 gti will be faster, but not by much. The rabbit has good torque down low but lacks compared to a vr6 up top. For daily driving its great, if you want to go fast its not....unless you get a turbo.

my friend has a 2000 gti vr6 with an intake and custom exhaust and i can take him all day long with my bone stock 2008 2.5. i get him on the take off and he almost catches up by the end.
btw we dont street race http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif we take it to the track http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
maybe its the drivers? but i honestly think my car is just faster


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## katzen (Aug 5, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (MKVJET08)*

I'm a technician at a VW dealership and I've driven the cars many, many times. I like the 2.5 a lot, I feel that it runs hard for a base engine. It is so much better than the 2.0. It is also a reliable engine.
For pure speed though, I think the VR6 cars feel quicker. Even the MKIV 12V cars. The power delivery of a VR6 is a lot more manic, you can wind them out. The 2.5 has good off the line punch, then it falls off. You can look at the weights and power outputs of both cars, but sometimes bench racing isn't as accurate as it may seem.


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## VWguy73 (Dec 20, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (MKVJET08)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MKVJET08* »_
my friend has a 2000 gti vr6 with an intake and custom exhaust and i can take him all day long with my bone stock 2008 2.5. i get him on the take off and he almost catches up by the end.
btw we dont street race http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif we take it to the track http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
maybe its the drivers? but i honestly think my car is just faster

Same thing for me. My buddy has a gti with a 12v VR6 and I walk all over him. As you said, it could be the drivers, but i've driven his car and i still say mine is faster. As stated above, the VR is going to pull higher in the RPM range. 
I don't know what the mkiv vr6 is said to run in the 1/4 stock, but with only a CAI and REVO software, i ran a 15.8 in my rabbit


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## vdubCorrado (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (VWguy73)*

any geration VR6 is "faster" than the new I5 for one simple reason... TRANSMISSION GEARING! i've owned MK3 and MK4 GTI VR6's as well a Corrado VR6... when it comes to acceleration gearing may possibly be the single most important factor, and of which may also be the most overlooked...


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## a3vr (May 27, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (MKVJET08)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MKVJET08* »_
my friend has a 2000 gti vr6 with an intake and custom exhaust and i can take him all day long with my bone stock 2008 2.5. i get him on the take off and he almost catches up by the end.
btw we dont street race http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif we take it to the track http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
maybe its the drivers? but i honestly think my car is just faster

interesting. I know the my rabbit wouldn't stand a chance to my mk3 vr, even before I modded the vr.


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (a3vr)*

hmm.. no clue. that's just my experience. but you know, every car is different. you could have two of the same cars with the same mileage and, depending on how it was treated, one could be faster than the other. 
i know i babied my car at first, not once did i ever go past 3k rpm until after 3000 miles, and my buddies vr gets dogged almost daily lol.


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## eunos94 (Mar 17, 2002)

The 12V VR6 *feels* like it has more upper end because it does. The 2.5 in my opinion is an awesome combo with the tiptronic. It has a ton of bottom end and midrange grunt. While the VR6 was mid range and upper end which made it a lot more fun to row through those gears. While having nearly the same power to weight ratio the VR6 does in fact *feel* faster with a manual. However slap an auto to both cars and the 2.5 feels much faster off the line and in traffic.
I personally love the 2.5 and the VR6. The winner for me is based on transmission choice. Auto 2.5 or a manual VR6. I'm happy with either.


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (eunos94)*

manual 2.5 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## a3vr (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (eunos94)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eunos94* »_ I personally love the 2.5 and the VR6. 

Same here. That's why I have both







But if I could only have one, you know exactly which one I'd choose.


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## vwgtipowr (Aug 26, 2002)

*Re: (a3vr)*

I had a 1995 MK3 12v Vr6, and I now have a 2008 I5 rabbit.
Both cars were 5 speed manuals.
VR6 2.8L
1. The 12V VR had more oomph up top. Felt like it pulled harder at redline.
2. The sound of my Stainless nuespeed cat back was unreal!








I5 2.5L
1. My new rabbit has more torque way down low (2000 RPM) so makes nice for daily lazy driving. 
2. Gas mileage is 32 highway in the rabbit, was only about 26mpg in VR6 GTI.
I can't speak on reliability yet, because although I had issues with the VR6 I had it for 85,000 miles, I have only had the 08 rabbit for 10,000 so far.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bighauler1 (Oct 19, 2005)

*Re: (vwgtipowr)*

I have had past dealer experience and driven many different platforms and combo's, and will say this: dollar for dollar you get more bang for the buck with the rabbit/2.5. I am not saying the vr is slower, just that for a cheaper, newer platform, the 2.5 feels similar to a stock MK3 vr, a bit slower, but again at a much cheaper price. The cars, stock for stock, have a similar feel imo, just the rabbit has a more refined feel. Save the coin and get the bunny, its a great platform


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