# Heavier Oil in the Warmer Months?



## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

Wuts up everyone, i run Castrol Syntec 5w40 with 5k oil change intervals in my 08 2.0T GTI. Still have the stock PCV system, so I deal with plenty of fuel dilution over the course of an oil change. 
I'm down here in Houston and it is starting to get toasty again. Was wondering if anyone has had success with running a slightly heavier oil than the by the manual 40 weight? Seems to me like the combination of fuel dilution and the higher temps would cause the 40 weight to get a little thin. I run autocrosses consistently and tend to drive the car pretty hard on a day to day basis. 
Any thoughts would be much appreciated? Maybe a Castrol Syntec 5w50...
edit: forgot to mention I am still in the warranty and don't want VW to hassle me


_Modified by rhouse181 at 7:43 PM 3-5-2009_


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## daemontrym (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Heavier Oil in the Warmer Months? (rhouse181)*

I think you will be fine running a 5W50 in there when its hot especially if you autocross often. The best place to do some real research is http://www.bobistheoilguy.com forums. They have a whole European car section which you can see actual oil analysis to base your decisions off of.
Some of the different oils even knowing SAE puts them at certain weights they are alittle heavier or lighter in the spectrum and they go over that in the forum. 
As for the warranty stuff since I run Rotella T syn 5w40 in my car its not a VW approved oil. But due to my research on that forum for using it in my bike and in my car (08 Rabbit), I buy my oil filters from the dealership. The service department stamps it with a date/time and what it is. I use that as a maintenance ticket as well...

You should give AMS oil a look for the racing application tho


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

thanks for the link, a lot of great information on that website...
the RLI Biosyn looks interesting. I'm going to get an UOA done on the Castrol Syntec and then switch over to the Biosyn and compare... we'll see how the results turn out. 
now if there was only a good, long term solution for the PCV system, we would be good to go...


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

you don't need a heavier oil in the warmer months.
5w40 is fine to use year-around


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (GT17V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_you don't need a heavier oil in the warmer months.
5w40 is fine to use year-around

I agree, 
best way for you to find out is to send your castrol oil for analysis at blackstone.
You'll get result as soon as they get your oil, they'll send you an e-mail with PDF file with your results.


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_
I agree, 
best way for you to find out is to send your castrol oil for analysis at blackstone.
You'll get result as soon as they get your oil, they'll send you an e-mail with PDF file with your results.


already in the process, blackstone's sampling tube is in the mail http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
any evidence or explanation why the 5w40 is fine? all the materials and UOA's that i've looked at so far have shown that the Syntec shears down pretty thin and gets serious fuel dilution after only 3k miles or so...


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (rhouse181)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_
already in the process, blackstone's sampling tube is in the mail http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
any evidence or explanation why the 5w40 is fine? all the materials and UOA's that i've looked at so far have shown that the Syntec shears down pretty thin and gets serious fuel dilution after only 3k miles or so...

Here's my thread with my oil results from Castrol Syntec 5w40
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4120982


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_
Here's my thread with my oil results from Castrol Syntec 5w40
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4120982

you can't really compare your results to a 2.0T. Likewise 1.8T results are pretty meaningless compared to the 2.0T. The FSI throws in a huge curveball.


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (GT17V)*

That's true, that's why he should sent his own oil in


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## Spa_driver (Jul 31, 2005)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*

Why keep running Syntek if you have doubts about it?


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## Josein06GLI (Jun 29, 2008)

well i dunno about every state but in texas, it gets fuggin hott. i was born and raised there and a lil more south of houston over 100deg everyday in summer time, like i said i dunno about other states but id make sure my oil was good too lol


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## 08Rabbit1 (Jun 30, 2008)

Of course you can run thicker oil in warmer weather. Many people don't realize these suggested supplier and viscosity is just a ponzi scheme - auto manufacture signs distribution agreement with oil company, auto manufacturer recommends the brand and weight of oil, then oil company limits the distribution of that particular product pushing more people into the dealership for oil changes. I'm convinced they'd make recommened entirely unavailable outside the dealership if it weren't for the likelyhood of antitrust scrutiny - so they just limit it. The whole thing is so silly - and yet many people think anything but 5-40 is going to ruin their car.


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

Yea, the fuel dilution issues with the DI on the 2.0T's is a compleletly differenct scenerio... 1.8T results are NA for our analysis. 
I'm sticking with Castrol for one more oil change because I haven't decided on what oil to run next. The RLI Biosyn stuff looks pretty promising, but its expensive and i'd have to mail order it. I want to try a couple quarts of Syntec 5w50 in the next oil change and see if that will help with the sheering. I haven't seen any UOA's on this combination yet... 
Also, I like having a baseline UOA on the oil that VW "requires." So if I change to something different, at least I have evidence of how poorly a job the Castrol stuff was doing. 
And yes, it does get redonkulously hot down here in Houston... 100F on a consistant day to day basis. 5w40 just seems too thin for those conditions


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## franz131 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: (rhouse181)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_And yes, it does get redonkulously hot down here in Houston... 100F on a consistant day to day basis. 5w40 just seems too thin for those conditions 

While it feels really hot, 100F is significantly cooler than the fluids in the motor. 
100F = 38C
Cooling system 195F = 90C
Oil temp 250 - 300F = 120 - 150C, spiking to over 300C in the ring lands and under the piston dome.
A sound cooling system will have no problem maintaining the correct oil and water temps.
Maybe installing an oil temp gauge would confirm your theory and the effectiveness (or need even) of your solution.


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## dsgnbld (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: Heavier Oil in the Warmer Months? (rhouse181)*

I have used Kendall 30 wt in winter and 40 wt in summer for many years in my '92 daily driver and in my '85 dd before that. I drive the hell out of my car and it runs like a top.


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (08Rabbit1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_Of course you can run thicker oil in warmer weather. Many people don't realize these suggested supplier and viscosity is just a ponzi scheme - auto manufacture signs distribution agreement with oil company, auto manufacturer recommends the brand and weight of oil, then oil company limits the distribution of that particular product pushing more people into the dealership for oil changes. I'm convinced they'd make recommened entirely unavailable outside the dealership if it weren't for the likelyhood of antitrust scrutiny - so they just limit it. The whole thing is so silly - and yet many people think anything but 5-40 is going to ruin their car.

You can't be serious. There are at least 5 different VW 502.00 approved oils from 4 different makers, including a 5w30, a 0w40 and 2 5w40's, all readily available in practically every city in the US. And a few times that many available online. How does that even resemble a ponzi scheme, or any other scheme for that matter?


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## 08Rabbit1 (Jun 30, 2008)

The vast majority of VW owners never see an approved oil list. Read the owner's manual. It's not just VW, try Mercedes and their Mobil 1 0-40, etc. These are U.S market schemes - they don't exist in Europe.


_Modified by 08Rabbit1 at 1:25 PM 3-28-2009_


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (08Rabbit1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_The vast majority of VW owners never see an approved oil list. Read the owner's manual. It's not just VW, try Mercedes and their Mobil 1 0-40, etc. These are U.S market schemes - they don't exist in Europe.

_Modified by 08Rabbit1 at 1:25 PM 3-28-2009_

the VW approved list exists in europe also, so it is not a US market scheme.


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (08Rabbit1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_The vast majority of VW owners never see an approved oil list. Read the owner's manual. It's not just VW, try Mercedes and their Mobil 1 0-40, etc. These are U.S market schemes - they don't exist in Europe.


True, the vast majority of owners never see the list. The vast majority of owners also could give a crap what it requires even though the list can be easily found online or supplied by your dealership.
Please do tell how these 'schemes' are US only considering the same approved list applies world wide. 
Also I did just re-check the OM's in both my '08 R32 and '07 A4 at your suggestion. They both suggest using 5w40 first, 5w30 next, but that any VW 502 approved oil is satisfactory. So they specifically list 2 different weights, and neither lists a single brand name. Again, where is this scheme?


_Modified by bcze1 at 10:21 AM 3-29-2009_


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: (08Rabbit1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_The vast majority of VW owners never see an approved oil list. Read the owner's manual. It's not just VW, try Mercedes and their Mobil 1 0-40, etc. These are U.S market schemes - they don't exist in Europe.

_Modified by 08Rabbit1 at 1:25 PM 3-28-2009_

Anyone who is reading your post is not one of the vast "majority" of vw owners... so we don't really care about those people and what they do with their machines. An approved list of oils is provided by every german car manufacturer because oils make a huge difference for motor performance and longevity.
It is certainly not a US marketing scheme... its just that people here tend not to know, nor care about what oil they use in their car, and manufactures have to spend more time stressing the proper oils. the average european is way more knowledgeable and dedicated to maintenance. 
so its seems USPS ate my UOA before it could get to Blackstone. still waiting to see how that castrol syntec held up...


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## 08Rabbit1 (Jun 30, 2008)

Right, must have 5-40 or 5-30, and it must be on the list, doesn't matter what your climate is, just must be one of those weights and on the list. It's utterly ridiculous how few the choices, absolutely nothing at WalMart for example, very rare even at auto parts stores. Mercedes is even more extreme - must have Mobil 1 0-40, sold almost no where. European MBs don't even have to use synthetic oil in the exact same engines. Europe actually has antitrust laws and enforcement, U.S. doesn't really. I have a bridge I'd llike to sell you, and some swamp land too. We get these schemes for the simple reason that we're gullible.


_Modified by 08Rabbit1 at 4:05 PM 3-29-2009_


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## franz131 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: (08Rabbit1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_European MBs don't even have to use synthetic oil in the exact same engines. 

??????
EVERY M-B is shipped with synthetic oil from the factory. The Euros think we're savages for putting mineral oil in modern engines.
Oil in Europe routinely sells for Euro 20/L, we can buy the same stuff for less than $10 and complain bitterly about it.


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (08Rabbit1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_Right, must have 5-40 or 5-30, and it must be on the list, doesn't matter what your climate is, just must be one of those weights and on the list.

Actually the list over-rules those two weights specifically listed as there are a few 0w40's on it, such as M1.

_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_It's utterly ridiculous how few the choices, absolutely nothing at WalMart for example, very rare even at auto parts stores. 

C'mon, you're either lying or blind. Every WalMart I've been to sells m1 0w40 and usually has Castrol 5w40 as well. I seen them both at Costco as well. Every major AP chain carries both, and some also carry GC 5w30. I've seen Penzoil Platinum 5w30 in a few AP stores and it seems to be getting more common. Last, NAPA sells Lubro Moly 5w40. That's five choices of approved oil all within 10 minutes of my home.
Shoot I just got 5qts of M1 + a filter for $29.99 at Advance Auto last week on their NATIONWIDE sale. 


_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_Mercedes is even more extreme - must have Mobil 1 0-40, sold almost no where. 

Wrong again. http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html


_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_I have a bridge I'd llike to sell you, and some swamp land too. We get these schemes for the simple reason that we're gullible.


Again, what scheme? (the mere fact you called it a _ponzi_ scheme earlier reveals your actual knowledge of schemes in general) I just listed 5 different oils, from 4 different manufacturers, in 3 different weights readily accessible to most consumers in the US. Oh, and lets not forget you can always swing by a dealer and buy a few quarts from them. And don't give me another song and dance about how that's part of the scheme...I've been to 3 different local dealers and they all use 3 different approved oils. 
Guess we just have a lot of oil options here on my Arizona ocean front property.


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## JimH (Dec 22, 1999)

*Re: (bcze1)*

Thx for all the good info in this thred; I am close to changing oil and due to the cost of Amsoil I'll be switching to something else. In the meantime I'll need to add some and I'm out of Amsoil. I just got back from my local Advanced; no 0W40 at all, of any brand.


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## 08Rabbit1 (Jun 30, 2008)

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html - that link is for my point, not yours. Go down to "Rest of the World" - all 229.1 conventional oils are approved for MB in Europe, banned in the U.S. Both VW and MB make their "recommendations", like Mobil 1 0-40, to buy what they sell, then restrict distribution of the list.
I never could get a 502 00 from VW. Three calls to VW NA "I'd like the 502 00 list", response "we don't have it, you don't need it, the dealer has the right oil and will change it for you". Calls to 3 dealers - "I'd like the 502 00 list", "we don't have it, talk to VW NA". They actually put out an owner's manual that says you must use 502 00 oils, and then will not provide the list, instead suggesting that you don't need the list because the dealer has the right oil when you go in for the oil change. If the list wasn't available on the internet it wouldn't be readily available at all, but you'd still have to comply to keep your warranty in force.
Again if you don't think manufacturers sit around cooking up schemes to get you in the dealership for service, like narrowly restricting the viscosity and brand/product line of approved oils, I have some swamp land for you.

_Modified by 08Rabbit1 at 9:14 PM 3-30-2009_


_Modified by 08Rabbit1 at 9:15 PM 3-30-2009_


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## franz131 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: (08Rabbit1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_that link is for my point, not yours. Go down to "Rest of the World" - all 229.1 conventional oils are approved for MB in Europe, banned in the U.S.

So in your mind "Rest of the World" means Europe?
As an American, that mindset makes sense, but not as a European, particularly not German.
In order of importance (to them)
1. Western Europe
2. America (Canada as an afterthought)
3. Rest of the World
229.1 oils have been obsolete in Europe since 2000, that's a fact.

_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_I never could get a 502 00 from VW. Three calls to VW NA "I'd like the 502 00 list", response "we don't have it, you don't need it, the dealer has the right oil and will change it for you". Calls to 3 dealers - "I'd like the 502 00 list", "we don't have it, talk to VW NA". They actually put out an owner's manual that says you must use 502 00 oils, and then will not provide the list, instead suggesting that you don't need the list because the dealer has the right oil when you go in for the oil change. If the list wasn't available on the internet it wouldn't be readily available at all, but you'd still have to comply to keep your warranty in force.

I've never had a problem getting the list from local dealers, I get a copy of every update as they are released.
There are over 200 companies on the global list of which at least 10 are represented in North America. If that's the best conspiracy VW could put together, they need to stick to building cars.


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (08Rabbit1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html - that link is for my point, not yours. Go down to "Rest of the World" - all 229.1 conventional oils are approved for MB in Europe, banned in the U.S. Both VW and MB make their "recommendations", like Mobil 1 0-40, to buy what they sell, then restrict distribution of the list.

Actually it proves you didn't bother to actually read it, oh and it proves you wrong (again). First you stated that US MB customers were exclusively limited to M1 0w40 in the US. That sheet clearly proves that statement wrong. Also, yes there are many ROW listings on that sheet, including 229.1. But if you read a bit closer you'll find that all their current offerings require either 229.5 or 229.51 EVERYWHERE in the world. The description of 229.1 specifically states "Note 229.1 oils are not recommended for MB's latest (*2002+*) 4 valve gas M271, M275, M285 and diesel OM646, OM647, OM648 engines." So to spell it out...MB's NA oil spec for late model cars is the same as ROW.

_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_I never could get a 502 00 from VW. Three calls to VW NA "I'd like the 502 00 list", response "we don't have it, you don't need it, the dealer has the right oil and will change it for you". Calls to 3 dealers - "I'd like the 502 00 list", "we don't have it, talk to VW NA". They actually put out an owner's manual that says you must use 502 00 oils, and then will not provide the list, instead suggesting that you don't need the list because the dealer has the right oil when you go in for the oil change. If the list wasn't available on the internet it wouldn't be readily available at all, but you'd still have to comply to keep your warranty in force.

I've never tried to call VWoA for that purpose, maybe I will today just out of curiosity. But I've walked out of 2 VW and 1 Audi dealer with a 502.00 list in hand over the past 5 or so years. BTW, the internet isn't exactly a new novelty that no one has access to. 

_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_Again if you don't think manufacturers sit around cooking up schemes to get you in the dealership for service, like narrowly restricting the viscosity and brand/product line of approved oils, I have some swamp land for you.


Look, I have no doubt that Castrol paid VW to have their name on my oil fill cap. And I'm sure that's enough to fool some ignorant owners into pouring Castrol every time. But if the best VW can do is limit availability to six totally different 502.00 approved oils from 5 different manufacturersreadily available to me (forgot that in addition to the 5 oils I've already list one of my local dealers uses 76 Pure Synthetic) , then as franz131 said they really need to focus their efforts elsewhere because they suck at scheming. Bernie Madolf would not approve.


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (08Rabbit1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *08Rabbit1* »_
I never could get a 502 00 from VW. Three calls to VW NA "I'd like the 502 00 list", response "we don't have it, you don't need it, the dealer has the right oil and will change it for you". Calls to 3 dealers - "I'd like the 502 00 list", "we don't have it, talk to VW NA". They actually put out an owner's manual that says you must use 502 00 oils, and then will not provide the list, instead suggesting that you don't need the list because the dealer has the right oil when you go in for the oil change. If the list wasn't available on the internet it wouldn't be readily available at all, but you'd still have to comply to keep your warranty in force.

I understand your frustration...but you obviously have too much time on your hands and are picking a battle that is either not worth fighting or cannot be won...you know where the list is by running a simple audi vw 502 search on yahoo and you have access to the internet...stick with a 502 oil or you risk having your warranty voided...doesn't mean your engine will blow up if you don't...it just means that VW has the right to deny a warranty claim for engine failure due to improper oil
so pick your battle...cry about it...OR...go to AutoZone, Advance, Walmart, almost any parts store, or the dealership and pick up Castrol 5w40 or M1 0w40 and just be happy...your choice


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