# mk4 cluster in mk3



## Sh0cker (Sep 21, 2003)

I wired the cluster to my mk3 harness (VR6). Well, its christmas tree for now- need to kill few LEDs that are useless like washer fluid/traction/pad wear etc...
TO the point:
-for some reason my tach doesnt work at all, it is definately functional because it "0"s out when i leave the needle half way. Can someone tell me the wiring that will work.
-for those who already installed it/ or had experience with mk4 cluster; mk3s have 2 oil pressure switches and mk4 has 1, can i just buy 1.4bar switch and hook it up to the cluster or that wont be a good idea at all?
more to come


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## Sh0cker (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: mk4 cluster in mk3 (Sh0cker)*

here is some info:
mk3 cluster:
a)Pin 7 VSS output [liliac] > Fusebox> [blue/white] ->ECM/RADIO
b)Pin 10 Terminal 1 / terminal W [green] >Fusebox> [green/black] -> ECM
c)Pin 27 VSS (G22) [white] >Fusebox [white/blue] -> VSS /pin2
mk4:
A Pin 3 Outpus signal 1 from electronic speedometer [blue/white] -> T10/6 Orange plug -> ECM
B Pin 11 RPM [green/brown] ->T10/9 Orange plug ->ECM
C Pin 28 VSS [green] -> VSS /pin2
D Pin 5 on green plug (32a) Terminal W [gray/white] ->T10/1 Orange plug ->ECM *Where Applicable
I tried 
a A
b D
c C
a A
b B
c C
Speedo doesnt even move








*EDIT:

Quote, originally posted by MrDave »
the tach 'signal' is a digital value transmitted over the CAN-bus, along with all of the other CAN-bus information. 


Dont even bother getting CANbus cluster if you want to keep tach without A LOT of modifination
* 



_Modified by Sh0cker at 4:42 PM 3-10-2005_


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## punkassjim (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: mk4 cluster in mk3 (Sh0cker)*

I think there's something about that mk4 speedo signal that requires a square-wave signal ersumthin...crap, I forget. Guaranteed MrDave could answer your question, try sending him a PM.
And hope to god he doesn't say it's impossible with a CAN/immo cluster.


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## MrDave (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: mk4 cluster in mk3 (Sh0cker)*

Fun fun fun.
I'm running a mk4 cluster with a mk3 VSS.
I'm running a signal converter from Dakota Digital between the VSS and the speedo. 
I'm sure you're aware that there are 2 VSS wires on the mk4 cluster.
There is VSS *IN* that goes to the cluster from the VSS, and
VSS *OUT* that goes off to the ECU and the radio and wherever else the speed signal is used.
Connecting to your cluster with a VAG-com, you can adjust the settings for the cluster and the CAN-gateway and disable a bunch of the idiot lights as well as change the settings for your speedo calibration (there are 2 or 3 different factory settings.
Still with the VAG-com, you can go for a drive and check the speedo reading in the VAG-com blocks.
As for the tach reading, on my cluster (2002) the tach is digital over the CAN-bus. Can't really help you there.

-Dave


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## Myst Dub (Mar 5, 2004)

any luck shocker ...i myself am going to do it for my 1.8t swap ...


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## Myst Dub (Mar 5, 2004)

*Re: (Myst Dub)*

and whats VSS?? ..sorry if its a stupid question ...


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## Sh0cker (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (Myst Dub)*

Vehicle Speed Sensor


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## Myst Dub (Mar 5, 2004)

Where is the sensor for it **is it hooked at the end of the harness from the cluster pins** i have a harness just havent looked into it yet...also can the VSS OUT be just plugged into the ecu and not run into the radio etc ...


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## Sh0cker (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (Myst Dub)*

Thx Dave for help,
I figured that having tach working will be difficult task that is not worth the hassle, besides any 1j0 920 xxx cluster when you swap it is unscannable via Vag-Com so i cant even look through setting in my car...I'd have to swap it into friends mk4 and then have it scanned. And immo is annoying me too...
Problem is solved - i acquired 1j0 919 951 B , early cluster- i'll update you on how that goes


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## MrDave (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: (Sh0cker)*

Notes on the Dakota Digital SGI-5. 








It's a "universal speedometer signal interface" Flip a few switches and your speedo is dead on. Simple to wire up, simple to use.
Link to my writeup,
Link to Dakota Digital,
Link to SGI-5 manual (pdf) 
Sh0cker, regarding the VAG-com, you could always connect a secondary VAG plug to communicate with only the cluster. I think it's only 4-5 wires. 'course, you'd only really need it once.
Hopefully you get your tach working. Appologies for my earlier post, I thought you couldn't get the speedo to work. 

Notes on the tach (public post of some IM stuff)
On the mk1 and mk2, the tach is driven off of the coil. The mk3's I'm not sure about. On the mk4's, at least the later ones, the tach in the cluster is a stepper motor, the tach 'signal' is a digital value transmitted over the CAN-bus, along with all of the other CAN-bus information.
Worst case is gutting your mk3 cluster and mounting the mk3 tach to the back of the mk4 cluster.
I have a mk4 cluster (new beetle) I'll be putting into my old mk1 Jetta. My plan is to put a mk1 tach on the back of the cluster to drive the needle. It won't be pretty, but it'll be guaranteed to work.
You may want to research what the mk4 guys who run stand alone ECUs do to run the tach.

And please, oh please, don't mount a 6" aftermarket tach to your steering column or windsheild pillar.

-Dave


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## Sh0cker (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (MrDave)*

I received the cluster today
well all my problems regarding tachometer not working went away, now i _only_ need DD converter for speedo and tach:
speedo shows the speed faster than im moving
tach after 1K gets really inacurate, can even compare to anything


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## Sh0cker (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (Sh0cker)*

Few more unknows:
I'm not into engine mechanical so i need a little help here, since mk4 use 1.4 bar oil pressure switches is it alright to use one on my car in order to have everything running. Is 1.4 bar sufficient in case something happens to let me know pressure dropped/raised?


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## punkassjim (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: (Sh0cker)*

as far as I knew, the oil pressure sender communicated with the ECU, and the ECU sends a solid or blinking voltage to the cluster's idiot light. I might be wrong, though.


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## Sh0cker (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (punkassjim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *punkassjim* »_as far as I knew, the oil pressure sender communicated with the ECU, and the ECU sends a solid or blinking voltage to the cluster's idiot light. I might be wrong, though.

nope, goes directly from Sensor [F1] to Cluster [pin 10] (based on Bentley)


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## MrDave (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: (Sh0cker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sh0cker* »_I received the cluster today
well all my problems regarding tachometer not working went away, now i _only_ need DD converter for speedo and tach:
speedo shows the speed faster than im moving
tach after 1K gets really inacurate, can even compare to anything



On the tach: is 4cyl vs 6cyl the issue maybe?
On the speedo: There may be a setting in the cluster coding, if you can VAG-com to it. Otherwise, the DD converter will work.
On the oil pressure switch: It's just that, a switch.
On the older cars (A1/A2) there were two switches, one normally open, one normally closed, two different switch pressures. One of your existing switches should be able to work in place of the stock mk4 switch. Alternately, install a mk4 pressure switch. It's all M10x1.
Regarding oil pressures, I always install a VDO oil pressure guage so I know exactly what's going on.








-Dave


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (MrDave)*

bump for usefull info
Question my fuel seems to be backwards? what to do


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## Sh0cker (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_bump for usefull info
Question my fuel seems to be backwards? what to do

its not backwards, its totally F**up 
when tank is more than half full it shows empty and reserve Light goes on








SOLUTION:
Get mk4 fuelpump w/ sender http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: (Sh0cker)*

Hey Sh0cker congrats on getting the tach working so you have it hooked up to pin# 11 on blue connector 
How about that W- wire pin# 5 on green connector? You didn’t need to use it the end right? To get the tach working


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## Sh0cker (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (talx)*

tach: i have terminal W (mk3) -> pin# 11 (mk4)
i just finished softCoding cluster today.
RPMs were the same as on VagCom tool therefore im happy But i still have to get DD converter to get speedo calibrated.
Things left to do:
-kill reserve light; mk4 cluster has separate wire going from ECM telling if fuel in tank is low, mk3 dont have such a wire so the light comes on; besides my '95 vr didnt have a light so im not missing much
-kill ASR/ESP light
-try 1.4Bar switch and see if it works
-install mk4 fuel pump w/ sender


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Sh0cker)*

Just picked up a 99.5 cluster from a vr6 for My 1.8t............. hope it works
Also picked up a mk4 fuel pump/sender


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