# where is the C2 42# setup?



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

Its almost the end of the first quarter and I just wanted to see what the status of the high boost fueling setup from C2 was http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## yablo_15 (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: where is the C2 42# setup? (schrickedVR6)*

its for sale for $449 but I havn't heard anything else really, no numbers or anything..
I am veryinterested
-Dan


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: where is the C2 42# setup? (schrickedVR6)*

I'll have it to check out soon.


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## REMUS-13 (Feb 22, 2004)

w3rd. Where's the dyno sheet at Jeff, I know you're hiding one








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (REMUS-13)*

im trying to get thier kit, but no one is returning my emails







.. They returned them like 3 times in a row and the all of the sudden, nothing.. Jeff, chris? Where ya at mangs?!







LOL, don't ya want my money?!


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## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

Chris said I will probably be the first one running his Stage II kit...so stay tuned, project starts Friday afternoon, pending all the other parts arrive on time!
Those guys are working really hard over there, give them a chance to return your calls. I was talking to Chris one night and he was still in the office at 12am...
~Ryan


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*

he didnt even give me his phone number so i can only get a hold of him on here and through emails


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## REMUS-13 (Feb 22, 2004)

*Re: (MunKyBoy)*

I have Chris' and Jeff's # but I don't know if they'd want me to give it out to everyone, so I'll try to send them an IM/email to make sure they get in touch with you asap. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (REMUS-13)*

sweet thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (MunKyBoy)*

I have the 42# running well up to ~11psi.
The chip will support high boost, It'll run a little rich above 11psi.
Part throttle is done.
The test car (my car) is having some problems...
slipping clutch in 4th and 5th gear.
Still need an IC
Still need the 8.5:1 HG.
We are discussing the possibility of flying out to a test car.
Basically EVERYDAY that has no snow or rain I am tuning
on the road.
Other news: I am opening a shop in Hamden/North Haven
and trying to get that stuff up and running.
lawyers, accountants, tools, lifts, welders, dyno....
About contacting C2: Chris and I are surfing the 'tex ALL the time
all you gotta do is drop an IM to one of us.

Jeffrey Atwood


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## GKONYA (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

Lay off, guys. They still need to concentrate on OBD1 #30 setup


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## yablo_15 (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: (GKONYA)*

So do you guys have any numbers for us? There are so many of us waiting with money in hand..... you guys are gonna make a lot of money








-Dan


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## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
I have the 42# running well up to ~11psi.
The chip will support high boost, It'll run a little rich above 11psi.
Jeffrey Atwood


Well, I guess I will be the second one...


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_
Well, I guess I will be the second one...









Actually, there are a few test cars running it already I here... i believe they called it "beta-testing"


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (leebro61)*

I wouldn't mind being third, but chris never has returned my email.. I told him everything i needed (twice) and still no email.. Jeff, you have IM


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: where is the C2 42# setup? (schrickedVR6)*

I've been running some betas for a few weeks to give it a go with some west coast air and it's awesome. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I've only been hammering it at 10 psi as I haven't had a chance to install my EBC yet, but it feels just like the 30# chip, but with 50% larger injectors. The EBC goes in in a few days and the boost then goes up to 15 pounds. EGTs are butter on the highway at light load and under boost.


_Modified by Marty at 6:16 PM 3-15-2004_


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (GKONYA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GKONYA* »_Lay off, guys. They still need to concentrate on OBD1 #30 setup









This has been scrapped for a 42# setup.
But if you want to run only ~9psi you'll run great with room to grow.
No 'real' point in making a 30# tune, when 42# will cover you and
some others as well.









Marty: how was the road trip?

Jeff


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## VRQUICK (Sep 20, 2000)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
This has been scrapped for a 42# setup.
But if you want to run only ~9psi you'll run great with room to grow.
No 'real' point in making a 30# tune, when 42# will cover you and
some others as well.









Jeff

Now thats what I'm talking about. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Gavster (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: (VRQUICK)*

As soon as this thing is ready...im buyin it. C2 stage 1 gave me awesome numbers on stock exhaust and no IC....cant wait to see what stage 2 has in store http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2001)

*Re: (Gavster)*

mmmm obd1 42#.... i can finally see the reason i lowered my compression


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
Marty: how was the road trip?

Jeff

The road trip was awesome. I just drove straight from San Jose to San Diego (~450 miles) and averaged 300 miles per tank (not bad!). The car purr'd the whole way down without a hiccup. I didn't get to play in the boost much though, too busy watching for cops. Made the trip in 6 hours including a stop for gas. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Good stuff.

Later,


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## 1QUIKVR (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

I ordered my 42# setup last week, just waiting for it to get here and I'll let you know how it goes after it's installed! Jef, if you guys need a test car.....Minnesota is a good place!!(Just ask Chris)


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## yablo_15 (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: (1QUIKVR)*

I'm just curious as to how the 42# kit can be for sale, but at the same time not done testing yet? 
-Dan


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (yablo_15)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yablo_15* »_I'm just curious as to how the 42# kit can be for sale, but at the same time not done testing yet? 
-Dan

When folks send me an inquiry about status, I tell them what
you have read here, and they choose to purchase now to get
up and running.
Jeffrey Atwood


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## bretter (Sep 6, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

jeff you gots a im. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GKONYA (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
This has been scrapped for a 42# setup.
But if you want to run only ~9psi you'll run great with room to grow.
No 'real' point in making a 30# tune, when 42# will cover you and
some others as well.









Marty: how was the road trip?

Jeff

Fair enough! Looks like I may just skip t3t4 and get a t04. Damnit.


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## bretter (Sep 6, 2002)

*Re: (GKONYA)*

so how is it above 11 psi?
i would like to replace this atp 42# chip asap.....
anyone run like 15 yet? marty?


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (bretter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bretter* »_so how is it above 11 psi?
i would like to replace this atp 42# chip asap.....
anyone run like 15 yet? marty? 


thats what im wondering.. I'm planning on running about 16 maybe higher..


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (bretter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bretter* »_so how is it above 11 psi?
i would like to replace this atp 42# chip asap.....
anyone run like 15 yet? marty? 


Above ~11psi it will run fine.
The fueling a little rich, like mid 11's a/f
Don't be worried so much about the 'boost'.
as long as you don't attempt to go past 100% duty
on the injectors you'll be covered.
Turn up the boost until you hit ~85% duty, and when/if you
drive in colder weather you won't lean out.
(look for ~6.7-6.9ms peak load on vag-com, 
max is ~7.4-7.5ms peak)

I don't get it....Why do you guys EXPECT 
ABSOLUTE PERFECTION from me and don't hold
ANY other tuner to the same standard?
I wouldn't sell it if the tune wasn't good enough for ME. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Drive on.
Jeffrey Atwood


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## bretter (Sep 6, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*



Jefnes3
I don't get it....Why do you guys EXPECT
ABSOLUTE PERFECTION from me and don't hold
ANY other tuner to the same standard?
I wouldn't sell it if the tune wasn't good enough for ME. [IMG said:


> http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]


chill out dude, maybe we expect the best from the best???








no seriously, don't take a simple question as a lack of faith in your
tuning ability. everyone on here knows how sweet your 30# stuff is.
im asking because i was wondering if the chip will be modified when you get your intercooler and headgasket. (i.e. leaned out a tad?) 
thats all. also, if ppl doubt your tuning it could be because they have been screwed my other companies.........just a thought


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_

I don't get it....Why do you guys EXPECT 
ABSOLUTE PERFECTION from me and don't hold
ANY other tuner to the same standard?
I wouldn't sell it if the tune wasn't good enough for ME. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Drive on.
Jeffrey Atwood

its not that we expect perfection, its just that you say its not done, but your still sell the kit (I've got one on the way







). And I think I, as well as everyone else, what to know what it can handle seeings its not "done" yet. It kind of worries me in that sort of way, but I understand that you've probably been doing this since before I've even owned a Volkswagen and know what is complete enough to sell, and what isn't.. I trust you, and I look forward to the setup http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Aren't you guys asking Jeff for chips before they are done (ie. pushing him)?
I mean, sounds like he's been real clear in telling everyone it's not quite finished yet - but you guys want the chip anyway...
Let me tell you, he's good. He 'estimated' a chip (via mail - without my car) for my 36# injectors and it's damn spot-on!








I'm sure if he thought you'd be leaning out (anywhere) that the chip would have NEVER left his house.
The fact that it could be a tad bit rich at times is better than what it could be.
Plus, you are safer than where you were with your last setup, right?
Later,


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## BigDaddyCW (Apr 4, 2000)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote »_This has been scrapped for a 42# setup.











_Modified by BigDaddyCW at 9:27 AM 3-20-2004_


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (BigDaddyCW)*

I myself talked to him and know that the 42# software isn't "done." It dosen't matter to me though since I still have my stock headgasket and can't run 15+ psi yet anyway.


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## 1QUIKVR (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: (Ohio Brian)*

I just plan on running 10-12psi untill I get the update http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (1QUIKVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1QUIKVR* »_I just plan on running 10-12psi untill I get the update http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Gotta walk before you can run


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

"Where is the C2 42# setup?"
Oh...it's in an envelope on my desk.


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## 98GTi-VR6 (May 16, 2000)

*Re: (Ohio Brian)*

and remember.....this ain't their day job..........YET!!!








Keep up the good work guys!
-Costas


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## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_The test car (my car) is having some problems...
slipping clutch in 4th and 5th gear.
Still need an IC
Still need the 8.5:1 HG

Jeff, remember that old post about your chips not producing as much power as other chips? This is the reason.
How can you write a chip for an intercooled, lower compression turbo vr6, when you don't have one to write the chip on?
I know that you and a bunch of other people will jump all over me for posting this, but I really don't mean this is as an insult so please try to not take it as one. I just can't understand how you can hope to get as much out of your chips as possible when you are writing them on a 10:1, non-intercooled VR6...


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## mavric (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: (I am Jack's VR6)*

I'll take a stab at this...although i could be completly wrong so dont flame me. My guess is since the chip is more do to with fuel ratio's, and making sure the car gets enough or not too much, the IC and compression has less to do with it. If it can be used from 8-9 psi to 15 or whatever, then im sure the IC and HG dont affect it that much......just a guess though. I mean, it uses measured air and calculates how much fuel to add right? Meaning it knows if there is denser air (IC function....) or more boost (low compression)...... I mean the MAF measures after the intercooler, so it can tell the difference. And low compression cause the only difference is the amount of air/boost you can run safely. Yes lower compression allows for more boost, but the air is still measured.....


_Modified by mavric at 8:45 AM 3-22-2004_


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## VRQUICK (Sep 20, 2000)

*Re: (mavric)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mavric* »_I'll take a stab at this...although i could be completly wrong so dont flame me. My guess is since the chip is more do to with fuel ratio's, and making sure the car gets enough or not too much, the IC and compression has less to do with it. If it can be used from 8-9 psi to 15 or whatever, then im sure the IC and HG dont affect it that much......just a guess though. I mean, it uses measured air and calculates how much fuel to add right? Meaning it knows if there is denser air (IC function....) or more boost (low compression)...... I mean the MAF measures after the intercooler, so it can tell the difference. And low compression cause the only difference is the amount of air/boost you can run safely. Yes lower compression allows for more boost, but the air is still measured.....

_Modified by mavric at 8:45 AM 3-22-2004_


Timing, Timing, Timing.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (I am Jack's VR6)*

Jack:
You can continue to compare my stuff to others all you like.
The numbers speak for themselves.
Gavster put down 280whp on the 30# tune.
and others have put down ~270whp.
I am still unclear about what is 'lacking' here.
This is limited by the injector.
You know as well as I do that every car is different.
I need to cover those differences.
As I have said before I do ALL road testing.
I monitor afr and knock sensor activity.
And tune accordingly.
The real deal with my tunes is driveability, NOT
absolute power.
Frankly, I am VERY touchy about liability. I don't
want to max everything out only to have you blow up
becasue of something that was beyond
my control and hold me responsible.
So, you'll never convince me otherwise unless your
wiling to accept responsibilty
I can make ANYONE a custom chip if they have specific
requirements, but this must be done ON the car.
I appreciate your input, but your comments
are nothing but general criticism. If you want to 
talk specifics or tuning theory, by all means shower 
us with your knowedge.
You are all worried about subtlties that you only understand
by 'reading the internet'. As far as I know you have no
first hand tuning experience. Our conversations would
be VERY different if you had.
What 'service' are you providing with your comments?
(you didn't expect not to reply, did you?)

Specific answers:
Air flow is airflow.... I dial in the afr accordingly. Running
intercooled will flow more than non-intercooled at the same 
pressure. The VR6 M5.9 Motronic has 
NO idea what the manifold pressure is
so I run MORE pressure on my non-IC car then you (or anyone)
would run with an IC. The injetcors will max out at the same
MASS FLOW, reguardless of boost. Some set-ups require more
pressure to reach this flow. Its simple fluid mechanics.
Ignition timing: I tune to where I am comfortable with
power to risk ratio. 
You also assume that this 'lack' of hp is an issue that NEEDS
fixing. On this we disagree. My car, and those
running my stuff, run very well thank you.
Take some tips from Cabzilla:
He now has a really fast, big power, VR6 Turbo that gets
under 15 mpg (in its current state, more tuning required) and won't 
legally pass emissions, and paid much more than ~$4xx.

Jeffrey Atwood




_Modified by Jefnes3 at 12:40 PM 3-22-2004_


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## BigDaddyCW (Apr 4, 2000)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
As I have said before I do ALL road testing.
I monitor afr and knock sensor activity.
And tune accordingly.
The real deal with my tunes is driveability, NOT
absolute power.


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mavric (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_Jack:

Air flow is airflow.... I dial in the afr accordingly. Running
intercooled will flow more than non-intercooled at the same 
pressure. The VR6 M5.9 Motronic has 
NO idea what the manifold pressure is
so I run MORE pressure on my non-IC car then you (or anyone)
would run with an IC. The injetcors will max out at the same
MASS FLOW, reguardless of boost. Some set-ups require more
pressure to reach this flow. Its simple fluid mechanics.



I was kinda right!







I say shut up and buy it if you like it, or dont if you dont. I have to say that most people here would say that jeff is an awsome tuner and his stuff is top of the line. If you look at how big c2 motorsports is getting, and the quality of the other products, i think you would relize how good these guys really are.


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## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: (I am Jack's VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *I am Jack's VR6* »_I know that you and a bunch of other people will jump all over me for posting this, but I really don't mean this is as an insult so please try to not take it as one. I just can't understand how you can hope to get as much out of your chips as possible when you are writing them on a 10:1, non-intercooled VR6...

I knew you couldn't resist.
...Always trying to save face in front of your potential customers. Did you ever stop and think about how I am one as well? I thought we went over this last time...
<sigh>

_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_I appreciate your input, but your comments are nothing but general criticism. If you want to talk specifics or tuning theory, by all means shower us with your knowedge.
You are all worried about subtlties that you only understand by 'reading the internet'. As far as I know you have no first hand tuning experience. Our conversations would be VERY different if you had.
What 'service' are you providing with your comments?

I already said what I think is the most obvious rule for tuning. If you are going to write a chip for a lower compression, intercooled VR6, YOU SHOULD HAVE ONE. At least humor us and have access to one. Am I really the only one who actually stops and thinks about how rediculous this is?
I just can't understand why it's been over two months since the last topic like this, and you still haven't gotten intercooled and you still run stock compression. You have had your metal gasket for longer than I have had mine! I just got mine installed instead of using it as a $300 paperweight.

_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_Take some tips from Cabzilla:
He now has a really fast, big power, VR6 Turbo that gets under 15 mpg (in its current state, more tuning required) and won't legally pass emissions, and paid much more than ~$4xx.

hahahahahahahaha!!!!
Talk about grasping at straws! I remember reading YOUR "disclaimer" saying that by running your chip, you are not guaranteed to pass emissions either.
Has this changed since then? Can you guarantee that I will pass emissions by running your chip? I'd love to hear your response on this one. lol


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (I am Jack's VR6)*

You could like totally make a million dollars if you could make money arguing on the internet, jack.


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## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: (Ohio Brian)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ohio Brian* »_You could like totally make a million dollars if you could make money arguing on the internet, jack.

Ah, the lemming. I thought you would never show up.


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (I am Jack's VR6)*

Yea, I must be a lemming. God forbid I bought something for my car and I'm *HAPPY* with it.


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## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: (Ohio Brian)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ohio Brian* »_Yea, I must be a lemming. God forbid I bought something for my car and I'm *HAPPY* with it.
















It's Mr. *HAPPY* to Jeff's rescue! Yay!


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## Justinian (Dec 28, 2001)

*Re: (I am Jack's VR6)*

You'd have a much more convincing argument if you'd logically address Jeff's responses to your gripes.
Or are fluid dynamics too indimidating? :X


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (I am Jack's VR6)*

You are a piece of work.


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## bretter (Sep 6, 2002)

*Re: (I am Jack's VR6)*

hahahahahaha
and the score is..........
I am Jack's VR6: 2
Ohio Brian: 0


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (bretter)*

Oh damn...I'm losing the namecalling contest.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

All I see are Jack's argumentative posts on all the other car forums as well. That's all you like to do (for some reason) and I can't figure it out.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I've seen you on the honda and bimmer forums.
On both, you either talk $hit about VW's or you talk 'other' $hit.
Calm down bro.
Take a deep breath.
Later,


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## mavric (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*

Wow, hey jack, why dont instead of biTching you actually listen to what was said, and if you still have a "technical problem with it" then adress us in a way that shows you know what the he#$ you are talking about and not just griping.....oh wait wheres that picture of the retarted kid running wheni need it


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## HOTSKILLET98 (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

Everyone sing this cheer with me.
JACK CAN FLAME.... YES HE CAN!
IF HE CAN'T FLAME IT.... NO-ONE CAN!
Topic mods have had to remove several of his high class remarks in my threads and I suggest doing the same here.


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## REMUS-13 (Feb 22, 2004)

Why are people getting on Jack's sht about "flaming"? What the hell is wrong with you people?








The man has an argument, let it be discussed. It's as simple as that. It's not a pissing match, but some of you are making it seem like that. He has a valid argument and I'm sure Jeff will have his own opinion + facts about things as well so just sit back, read, and educate yourselves instead of saying that this post is going to get locked and this guy or that guy is trolling.


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## BigDaddyCW (Apr 4, 2000)

*Re: (REMUS-13)*


_Quote, originally posted by *REMUS-13* »_The man has an argument, let it be discussed. It's as simple as that. It's not a pissing match, but some of you are making it seem like that. He has a valid argument and I'm sure Jeff will have his own opinion + facts about things as well so just sit back, read, and educate yourselves instead of saying that this post is going to get locked and this guy or that guy is trolling. 
It would be fine if Jack wanted to discuss this but all he seems to be doing is giving his opinion and zero facts.
Oh...here you go.








http://www.villagephotos.com/v...25767


_Modified by BigDaddyCW at 9:46 AM 3-23-2004_


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## 1QUIKVR (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: (REMUS-13)*


_Quote, originally posted by *REMUS-13* »_: 
The man has an argument, let it be discussed. 


You know, I hate to say it........but I read the original post where the argument was originated........and I agree, there is a valid *question*. I don't understand either but I'm no tuning guru. Maybe I just trust people too much but Jeff and C2 seem to know what they're doing. That's why I ordered a kit from them.


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## 98GTi-VR6 (May 16, 2000)

*Re: (1QUIKVR)*

it was a valid question, but it was addressed by jeff in his response:

_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
Air flow is airflow.... I dial in the afr accordingly. Running
intercooled will flow more than non-intercooled at the same 
pressure. The VR6 M5.9 Motronic has 
NO idea what the manifold pressure is
so I run MORE pressure on my non-IC car then you (or anyone)
would run with an IC. The injetcors will max out at the same
MASS FLOW, reguardless of boost. Some set-ups require more
pressure to reach this flow. Its simple fluid mechanics.


-Costas


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## 1QUIKVR (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: (98GTi-VR6)*

Thanks for the clarification http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif (not being a smart ass)


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## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: (98GTi-VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98GTi-VR6* »_it was a valid question, but it was addressed by jeff in his response:

I don't consider that an answer as to why he isn't intercooled and 8.5:1, but yet still writes a chip for that setup.
He's right that airflow is airflow, but he neglected to mention timing. How can you find a comfortable, safe advance for timing when you have a rediculously hot, non-intercooled intake charge? Lowering compression makes a car much more resistant to knock and detination, yet here we have Jeff (who is still running stock compression) writting a chip using both of these factors soley to tune.
Yeah, he answered my question _really_ well...


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## 1QUIKVR (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: (I am Jack's VR6)*

Hmmmm........I'm confused again


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## REMUS-13 (Feb 22, 2004)

*Re: (1QUIKVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1QUIKVR* »_

You know, I hate to say it........but I read the original post where the argument was originated........and I agree, there is a valid *question*. I don't understand either but I'm no tuning guru. Maybe I just trust people too much but Jeff and C2 seem to know what they're doing. That's why I ordered a kit from them. 

It's all good man. 
I've talked to Jeff a couple of times, in person, and know that he is a very knowledgable guy. I've talked with Chris plenty of times as well and he is, no doubt, very informative about tuning and such. I agree with that but whether someone has a disagreement with them, which I feel is a valid point made by Jack's VR6, it should be discussed in detail so that all of US get a definite answer on the situation and become more informed about someone's products and how to tune.


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## 1QUIKVR (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: (REMUS-13)*

I totally agree! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## REMUS-13 (Feb 22, 2004)

*Re: (1QUIKVR)*


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (I am Jack's VR6)*

jack does have a good point if you have conservative timing for a car that has stock compression and then you lower compression, you'd have way more timing pulled than you would need.. Am I right? I would think that you would need two seperate chips for stock compression, and lowered compression.. Again, air flow is air flow, but timing does take a large part of tunning.. I don't know.. I bought their setup and I plan on running it for a while.. I believe that these guys have been doing this long enough to know what is right to release to the public and what wouldn't be acceptable.. If I turns out to be a bad thing, then I'll let them know


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## Gavster (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: (MunKyBoy)*

That is an interesting point about the chip being written on a non-intercooled stock compression car. Being that I maybe be the only customer car running non-intercooled and stock comp. aside from jeffs, it might explain why I yeild higher HP numbers that those with coolers, HG's, and exhaust. It might be that the chip better fits my cars setup, as it is similar to that of the car it was written on. I mean, I dont know if this could be true or not, but its food for thought http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







Anyways, Im all for what C2 does though, amazing stuff if you ask me! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 1QUIKVR (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: (Gavster)*

Jeff??


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## Holy Piston (Oct 24, 2003)

*Re: (1QUIKVR)*

Jeff is a cool mofo and very knowledgable,and he always is there to answer peeps questions and whatever he is doing,it is working,he is allowing peeps to make 250+whp with NO fmu and not blowing up,I'm sure when he changes his setup he will have a different tune for you guys..........these things take time and you are lucky he is methodical as he is,he understands that VR turbo and pump gas and too much timing is KABOOM!!!!! Better that he isn't going for a 400whp chip than leaving a pile of blown up VR's in his wake..........right?Oh yeah,you guys do remember that VR's make about 150ish whp stock right?


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (MunKyBoy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MunKyBoy* »_jack does have a good point if you have conservative timing for a car that has stock compression and then you lower compression, you'd have way more timing pulled than you would need.. Am I right? 

If you want more timing for YOUR car.
Then PAY me for it.
Simple, tell me EXACTLY what you want and I'll make it.
We aim to please here at C2.....








Jeffrey Atwood


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## 1QUIKVR (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

So is it safe to say that with the 42# update there will be more timing added than in the original beta version?


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## yablo_15 (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: (1QUIKVR)*

So I am confused kinda now... will this chip be for my 8.5:1 ic'd setup? Sounds now like it's not for what i thought it was. Its a non ic, stock compression 17psi chip????









-Dan


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## 1QUIKVR (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: (yablo_15)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yablo_15* »_. Its a non ic, stock compression 17psi chip????








-Dan


Absolutely not, he doesn't have the high boost testing done yet because he hasn't installed his HG yet.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (yablo_15)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yablo_15* »_So I am confused kinda now... will this chip be for my 8.5:1 ic'd setup? Sounds now like it's not for what i thought it was. Its a non ic, stock compression 17psi chip????








-Dan

It will work fine on ANY FI vr6.
There is plenty of timing.
Questions for thought: (for ANYONE)
DO you own a vr6 capabable of making ~350+ whp?
Have you owned ANY car that made ~350+whp?
Have you broken a car while making ~350+whp?
Either you trust my judgement or you don't....
I don't know everything, but the things I speak of come from
first hand experience. 
I am honest with you guys, too honest apparently, in a effort
to share what I know and give it to you straight.
I'm done. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
Jeffrey Atwood


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
If you want more timing for YOUR car.
Then PAY me for it.
Simple, tell me EXACTLY what you want and I'll make it.
We aim to please here at C2.....








Jeffrey Atwood

Hey man, im not fighting you here.. Im just saying that Jacks questions were prefectly valid, but frankly I don't care.. Im not out trying to get as much HP per PSI as I can.. I just want what you said would work for ~350.. Even if it took 20 PSI to get me to ~350whp thats fine.. Its the peice of mind that I have someone that knows what they are doing and are confident about it (as well as not worring about my car blowing up) helping me out.. I've heard nothing bad about you nor chris, so I don't worry.. Maybe im stupid for trusting perfect strangers but you guys seem to have things figured out


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## Benihana (May 8, 2003)

*Re: (MunKyBoy)*

hey you guys, jeff has said this in the past and he just said it again, His chip isn't designed with PSI in mind, its designed for whp and reliability, his chip is good upwards of about 350whp-400whp. Doesn't matter if you have 7 compression or 10 compession, intercooler or not, its all about how much incoming air is coming in and how much fuel your injectors pop out, and the MAF will take care of the mixture. Lowering your compression only lets you run more boost , and MAF measures after the intercooler, so it can tell the difference.


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (Benihana)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benihana* »_
and MAF measures after the intercooler, so it can tell the difference. 

Curious.. Is that statement REALLY true?







I thought for sure their set up was before the turbo so that the turbulance wouldn't mess with the readings?


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (MunKyBoy)*

My maf is before the turbo. I've never even heard of one being after it.


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## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (MunKyBoy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MunKyBoy* »_
Curious.. Is that statement REALLY true?







I thought for sure their set up was before the turbo so that the turbulance wouldn't mess with the readings?









Their setup is before the turbo. Which is the reason they highly recommend diverting the blow-off back into the inlet piping, after the MAF. It is bad for the metered air to just be blown off, you will run rich.
~Ryan


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_
Their setup is before the turbo. Which is the reason they highly recommend diverting the blow-off back into the inlet piping, after the MAF. It is bad for the metered air to just be blown off, you will run rich.
~Ryan

Thats what I thought







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (Ohio Brian)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ohio Brian* »_My maf is before the turbo. I've never even heard of one being after it. 

You can actually put the MAF after the blow-off valve, right before the throttle body. There is a name for this, but I can't think of it right now. I've seen the setup before.
~Ryan


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_
There is a name for this... 


... a "bad idea"
Its a compromising situation. I ran this style on my supercharged car and I had my bov open at idle/part throttle. The car would idle bog and Im almost positive it was from air being pushed past the maf by the charger and the same air being sucked past the maf the other way to exit the bov. Obviously, the maf doesnt know direction. Of course, this isnt as much of a concern at full throttle, but even then turbulence can come into play... or so they say... and it makes sense (the whole push vs. pull theory).
Obviously, you could close the bov and have it only open at the highest vacuumn values (off throttle in gear), but why would you bother with the turbulence and working around idle issues? Im assuming just for the psssh sound, as I see no other benefits. Maybe im wrong... but for what its worth, a dv is still 'audible' if thats the concern.
Lee


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## bretter (Sep 6, 2002)

*Re: (leebro61)*

mine should be here tomorrow. thanks jeff http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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