# Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6?



## DST VR6 (Sep 27, 2001)

I was wondering what was the best way to see some good hp figures out of a vr6 engine. Is a S/C or a Turbo better? Anyone have any dyno sheets w/ mods list?


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (vwgroundzero)*

I have had a Z-Engineering supercharger on my car. It is a very high quality piece. Along with that high quality came top notch customer service through Nik Saran. I put 14k miles on it without any problems. My friend who bought it has but about another 8k on it with no problems still. 
Now I am waiting for a Stage I turbo kit from Matrix. Again, high quality parts with excellent customer service and relations already through Jeremy and Josh.


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## DST VR6 (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (PSI NRG)*

many people have said to go with the ATP Stage 2 turbo kit, which delivers around 300hp...Im just wondering what kind of power people have gotten from either a s/c or turbo kit...I was told that the z kit only produces 215hp..ams does 272, and atp turbo does 300...curious to know who has what and what kind of gains they have seen...


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## yello90g60 (Aug 12, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (vwgroundzero)*

go with the turbo if i'm not mistaken the turbo is 3800 and the z is 3900


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## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (vwgroundzero)*

Where did you get 215HP? and 272 for the AMS? 250 AMS at the crank with stock set-up and the z is 240-250 crank stage 1. My car did 258 to the wheels=296 crank at 15% drive train loss with the stage 2.


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## DST VR6 (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (SCVR6)*

i read somewhere that a guy said he noticed a 45hp increase over stock with the z kit...and ams has it on the site about the 100 hp gain over stock...


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## SoCo4Fun (Jan 22, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (SCVR6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]_ Where did you get 215HP? and 272 for the AMS? 250 AMS at the crank with stock set-up and the z is 240-250 crank stage 1. My car did 258 to the wheels=296 crank at 15% drive train loss with the stage 2. _[HR][/HR]​I emailed AMS asking them about their kit and they told me [email protected] crank.


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## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (SoCo4Fun)*

That would be 237HP to the wheels with 15% drive train loss.


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## DST VR6 (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (SCVR6)*

272 at the crank is still lots of hp....and for stock compression? thats really sweet...anyone know of atp's stage II kit, and what kind of hp figures we can expect?


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## Flavourless (Jun 23, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (vwgroundzero)*

yah atp stage II is amazing....there is actually one in the classifieds for sale....with new turbo too


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## DimcheMKV (Jan 13, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Euro Flavour)*

Turbo PSI i much stronger then SC PSI, from what i herd, Go with turbo, SC is good for that low end power, but you got a v6 so that turbo souldnt take long to spool up, and plus our VWs usally have alot of low end TQ, soo hehe do what you think is best with your money
I say turbo, or even better run em both!!!!!!!!! seen cars do it!!!!!







think of that, you got low end power and plus top end!!!!!!!!!!1 you cant go wrong hehehe


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## Y2KVR6GTI (Aug 16, 1999)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (PSI NRG)*

If I could afford the conversion, id go with the HPA/HPG Twin Turbo Setup. Good for about 400-500HP, and and about a 200MPH top speed.








http://www.hpamotorsports.com 
http://www.hgp-turbo.de/index.html 










Video:
http://www.lsvs.com/video.html


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## Scootter (Sep 8, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Y2KVR6GTI)*

Can some of you folks post web sites for as many of these company as you can like were do I find the info on the skunk works turbo it..?
Thanks
Scott in seattle


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## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Scootter)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Can some of you folks post web sites for as many of these company as you can like were do I find the info on the skunk works turbo it..?
Thanks
Scott in seattle[HR][/HR]​i would like the same info...


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## SonicVw (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (spyder360)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Well the Supercharger is easier to install, but it wont give you all the power that a turbo can. I would go for a turbo setup. A custom desing.[HR][/HR]​I bet an AMS supercharger is more difficult to install than, let's say a Matrix stage 1. The AMS requires you to cut a hole (actually 2 holes) in the frame, tap the head, machine the AC pulley, and if necessary shim the supercharger bracket to align the pulleys. Then you have to constantly check the tension of the belt.
Although I've never installed a turbo kit before, soon perhaps, I know all the above isn't required for a turbo.
As for the Z, probably so.








Ladd


[Modified by SonicVw, 9:17 AM 4-2-2002]


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## MKII16v (Oct 23, 1999)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (vwgroundzero)*

I've installed both. Both relatively easy. The tough part is reaching the oil filter canister to tap for an oil feed.


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## abdvr6 (Oct 1, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (SonicVw)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
I bet an AMS supercharger is more difficult to install than, let's say a Matrix stage 1. The AMS requires you to cut a hole (actually 2 holes) in the frame, tap the head, machine the AC pulley, and if necessary shim the supercharger bracket to align the pulleys. Then you have to constantly check the tension of the belt.
Although I've never installed a turbo kit before, soon perhaps, I know all the above isn't required for a turbo.
As for the Z, probably so.








[HR][/HR]​Damn, i never knew the AMS was that much of a pain in the asss to install. i had a z-charger and i could take that on and off in a matter of an hour and a half. Oh, by the way, the z-kit is still for sale!!!


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## Knockwurst (Jul 10, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Overboost)*

quote:[HR][/HR]WTF are youtalking about pal, you are wrong... it depends in the SC, and the turbo setup is pizza cake.[HR][/HR]​huh . . .


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## IwannaGTI (Jul 12, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Knockwurst)*

saw a vr6 turbo run a 11.81 last night......nuff said


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## DST VR6 (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (vwgroundzero)*

ttt


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## Bundaho (Nov 20, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (IwannaGTI)*

quote:[HR][/HR]saw a vr6 turbo run a 11.81 last night......nuff said







[HR][/HR]​What he said


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## GottaVDUB (Jun 12, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Bundaho)*

Turbo all the way... s/c's are very limited... i'm getting the ATP Stage II in 2 weeks! I'll get you guys the numbers... Bang for the buck, turbo kills the s/c and the hp numbers are ridiculous! Boost is boost! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Dr. Blingonian (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (GottaVDUB)*

S/Cs are limited? That is news to me.. Do you understand that with a smaller pulley and a headgasket or a built motor you can run more boost? Actually, a turbo is limited if you are looking at it from the aspect of what can run more boost. My Vortech will slaughter your T3/T4 or T4 turbo in the max boost category. The only thing is, less people have gone crazy with their S/C kits. There is a guy over in the 12v forum that got 350whp out of his Vortech.
heres the link... http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=258641 


[Modified by Dr. Blingonian, 5:06 PM 5-11-2002]


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## HOTSKILLET98 (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Dr. Blingonian)*

Superchargers are definitely better than turbos. 
Wanna buy my blower kit so I can got turbo?


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## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (PSI NRG)*

it have everything to do with your driving style and what you prefer. Do you want the sound of a blow off valve? or the whine of the charger? Do you want instant power that is fairly static and somewhat uncharted territory when it comes to high end mods? Or do you want to be able to tack on a t-66 bb turbo, and learn from those who've been there before? Do you like something that will boost your car mechanically like the supercharger. or something that will boost your car from the air flow dynamics?
Correct me if I'm wrong but won't a performance exhaust help much more on a turbo app than a S/C app?

When I asked the owner of Eurotech-Atlanta he said this... "Do you wanna bolt on your power, wipe your hands and be done with it? Or will you want to have your power installed, be able to easily upgrade it, while needed to tinker and play with the settings, and know that you're just gonna wanna go faster later?" For me... I've learned that power is addictive, it's like crack... you get some, and you gotta have more, once you get that you want more. Sure it's expensive and can kill you, but is the high you get from it worth it? Look at my face when I get the chance to do 165 in my GTI and I'll tell you. I'll go with Turbo


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## Dr. Blingonian (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (ExtremeVR6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]it have everything to do with your driving style and what you prefer. Do you want the sound of a blow off valve? or the whine of the charger? Do you want instant power that is fairly static and somewhat uncharted territory when it comes to high end mods? Or do you want to be able to tack on a t-66 bb turbo, and learn from those who've been there before?[HR][/HR]​I have both a whine and a BOV. A BOV is helpful and easy to use on a vortech equipped car. Supercharger's power is not static, it is linear. T-66bb turbo on a VW, is that what you are implying? If so, show me.
Also, this whole misconception that S/Cs are not upgradeable and have limits is really starting to get to me. A Vortech unit can efficiently run more than 20 psi. You can run 400whp out of an S/C car with out any issues if you have the cash to pull off the project. The only place I have seen this done with a turbo is with a Matrix 3.0 VR6t running 15psi on race gas. So, basically all of your arguments aren't factual or true by any means.
Oh yeah, BOV equipped vortech at your service..


















[Modified by Dr. Blingonian, 6:36 PM 5-11-2002]


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## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Dr. Blingonian)*

oh wait... I never said that S/C's weren't upgradable ... just saying that it's not been done near as much as turbos... I also wasn't bashing S/C's in anyway ... I was just saying that it's pretty much 100% personal preferance... I got no bones against an S/C ... I just will be getting a turbo when I get the chance.


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## Dr. Blingonian (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (ExtremeVR6)*

I didn't accuse you of picking on SCs, I merely corrected all the false statements you presented. I am not trying to be mean, I am just letting you know that what you have heard or thought about SCs is pretty much all wrong. I suggest you get a ride in a vortech car that is running 10 psi and has its fueling issues straightened out. I am sure it will quickly change your opinion on this matter. There are positives and negatives about both turbos and SCs, but I found fewer negatives about SCs, so that's why i got one.










[Modified by Dr. Blingonian, 8:08 PM 5-11-2002]


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## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Dr. Blingonian)*

ubfortunantly, I haven't had the chance to ride in a turbo'd or S/C'd car ... which I'm really wanting to get around to ...


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## Dr. Blingonian (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (ExtremeVR6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]ubfortunantly, I haven't had the chance to ride in a turbo'd or S/C'd car ... which I'm really wanting to get around to ... [HR][/HR]​Thought so







Believe me, looking at numbers and hearing what people have to say is nothing compared to getting a ride in one or driving one. Once you feel what both have to offer you will make up your mind rather quickly. I for one, couldn't get over the smooth and linear power a SC had to offer, so, here I am.


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## speed51133 (Feb 18, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Dr. Blingonian)*

quote:[HR][/HR]You can run 400whp out of an S/C car with out any issues if you have the cash to pull off the project. The only place I have seen this done with a turbo is with a Matrix 3.0 VR6t running 15psi on race gas. So, basically all of your arguments aren't factual or true by any means.
[HR][/HR]​bov's are stupidonsuperchargers.
and if thats the only place you've seen it,i guess it can't happen anywhere else!
ps-ive see it on 4 cylender VW motors.


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## Dr. Blingonian (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (speed51133)*

quote:[HR][/HR]bov's are stupidonsuperchargers.[HR][/HR]​Why? Because they relieve the pressure between the throttle plate and charger, thus keeping the forces on the charger to a minumum?
quote:[HR][/HR]and if thats the only place you've seen it,i guess it can't happen anywhere else![HR][/HR]​Well, no need for scarcasm pal.. But, yeah, for the most part. If there is something hot out there in VW land it generally makes its way to the 'tex..
quote:[HR][/HR]ps-ive see it on 4 cylender VW motors.[HR][/HR]​We aren't talking about 4 cylinder engines. But, kudos to you and your eyeballs.
BTW, come to Rock Falls import drag racing days and I'll show you just how stupid supercharged VR6s are with BOVs.. All you have to do is lay down $100 and the race is on.


[Modified by Dr. Blingonian, 12:42 AM 5-12-2002]


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## JimGTIVR6 (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Dr. Blingonian)*

wait.. blow off valves are stupid on cahrgers..
please elaborate. even vortech suggests u use a "SURGE VALVE" ..same thing as ablow off valve. 
it helps the blower lasts longer.. if u dont want to beleive it ..dont.. but its the truth. That and the noise is cool


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## VR6'n (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (JimGTIVR6)*

where do you get a "SURGE VALVE" at?


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## Dr. Blingonian (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (VR6'n)*

surge valve=blow off valve, they are the very same thing, just a different name.


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## JimGTIVR6 (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Dr. Blingonian)*

yea.. its funny.
they call a turbo's a BLOW OFF VALVE. a supercharger a SURGE VALVE.
cause a turbo's air BLOWS off and the supercharger's air surges.


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## gooseleg (Oct 11, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (JimGTIVR6)*

Turbo it or buy this one
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291827293


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (gooseleg)*

SC's suck, bottom line. Show me one fast vr6 with only a supercharger on it. My ATP stage 2 dynod at 330 whp and 350 ft lbs at 13 psi, on pump gas, with no cool down time. If you wanna go fast get turbo, if you wanna go slow get SC. SC will be more reliable, because more power the less reliable the car will be. VW's were not built to push over 300 whp, so you dont have to worry about that from a SC kit.


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## Bundaho (Nov 20, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (nycvr6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]SC will be more reliable, because more power the less reliable the car will be. VW's were not built to push over 300 whp, so you dont have to worry about that from a SC kit.







[HR][/HR]​Not quite true. More power doesnt = less reliable in all circumstances. Eg: if you have a supercharged car making lets say 300whp @ 7300rpm and you have a turbo car making 350whp @ 6000 which would be more reliable. Bearing load is proportional to RPM. So just because one makes more power then the other doesnt necessarily mean more load. If you want more clearification ill have to bust out the equations out of my turbo book when i get home







. Oh yeah btw.....turbos rock. 


[Modified by Bundaho, 3:43 PM 5-13-2002]


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Bundaho)*

This is true about bearing load. But i was adressing other issues as well. Like more power more chance of going lean, detonation etc..Also strain on transmission and axles from the torque. SC's dont produce a fraction of the torque that a turbo does. And trust me i know turbo's rock, i live it.


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## Dr. Blingonian (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (nycvr6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]SC's suck, bottom line. Show me one fast vr6 with only a supercharger on it. My ATP stage 2 dynod at 330 whp and 350 ft lbs at 13 psi, on pump gas, with no cool down time. If you wanna go fast get turbo, if you wanna go slow get SC. SC will be more reliable, because more power the less reliable the car will be. VW's were not built to push over 300 whp, so you dont have to worry about that from a SC kit.







[HR][/HR]​hahaha, oh man.. So untrue. You and black VR are about the only succesfully VR6Ts I have seen. I don't know how you guys did it, but I am very interested in it. I would not blatenly say that SCs suck, they are great for daily driving and for people who don't live their lives a 1/4 mile at a time














Dude, like you said, GTI VR6s are just not meant to be over 300whp or so, they just don't like it. I totaly agree with you that turbos produce a ton of power.. But, so will my SC running 15 psi with a headgasket and a water injection kit. I guarantee I could find 330whp no problem with a headgasket and H20. But, thats another story all together.


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## Bundaho (Nov 20, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Dr. Blingonian)*

quote:[HR][/HR]hahaha, oh man.. So untrue. You and black VR are about the only succesfully VR6Ts I have seen. [HR][/HR]​You need to keep looking then.


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## WMTJ (Jan 26, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (nycvr6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]SC's suck, bottom line. Show me one fast vr6 with only a supercharger on it. My ATP stage 2 dynod at 330 whp and 350 ft lbs at 13 psi, on pump gas, with no cool down time. If you wanna go fast get turbo, if you wanna go slow get SC. SC will be more reliable, because more power the less reliable the car will be. VW's were not built to push over 300 whp, so you dont have to worry about that from a SC kit.







[HR][/HR]​ http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=258641 
Did you not see this car pushing out 350whp with 16lbs of boost!? 








Come on! I've been deciding between a SC and a Turbo setup and I'm going with the SC.
Don't get me wrong, I've heard about your car, but SCers can be just as fast and reliable. Most people are too lazy to go through the trouble of having a smaller pulley made and an air to water IC set up properly( Air to Water being the better form of intercooling FYI).


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (WMTJ)*

That is impressive. But what now can he run 20 psi? How reliable is a supercharger at that much boost, i wouldnt bet on it lasting too long. Now on the other hand, my turbo can run over 30 lbs of boost. Lemme take back my comment before about superchargers sucking, because i dont really believe that, i just feel for the money you can spend on a supercharger, you can have a really nice turbo setup, that will make more power and torque. 


[Modified by nycvr6, 9:52 PM 5-13-2002]


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## Dr. Blingonian (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (nycvr6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]That is impressive. But what now can he run 20 psi? How reliable is a supercharger at that much boost, i wouldnt bet on it lasting too long. Now on the other hand, my turbo can run over 30 lbs of boost. [HR][/HR]​Dude, Vortechs are not running near there max boost range. They are rated efficient to 20 psi. Now, you can not run an efficient 30 psi out of a T4, that is just a lie. You CAN run that amount of boost, but you will encounter diminishing returns. I have read Maximum Boost by Corky Bell cover to cover, don't try pullin this on me bro







. And, boost is boost, as long as the efficiency is the same.. Whether its coming from supercharger, turbo, or somebody wtih really strong lungs. If you match boost with efficiency, equal results will be yielded regardless of the means that you attain it from. Efficiency can be improved via water injection, air to air IC, air to water IC, etc... Funny how he got more power than you did with his SC that "sucks"..








Not to mention i'm a mechanical engineer in the making. I have decided to wait out my turbo project til my mk4 supra is sitting in my garage. I believe that turbos on VR6s are a waste of time and money. But, that is my humble opinion.


[Modified by Dr. Blingonian, 3:50 AM 5-14-2002]


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## WMTJ (Jan 26, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (nycvr6)*

Actually the V1 -V2 trim ( more of the mulit purpose charger that vortech offers- {also the ones that Eurotech racing and AMS uses}) are efficient at 20psi and above (25psi). 8psi is quite low for these chargers. They are only about $300 to rebuild direct from Vortech themselves and after you buy the charger ($1400 if you're a vendor or $1800 for consumer) you can make your own custom brackets (very simple) and pulley (if you are an machinist like myself). 
I'm looking at about 2000 total for pipeing, pulley, and the brackets.
As for the torque you're referring to. How do you hook up on the street with all your boost coming in as rapidly as it does in a turbo VR6? Must be interesting in the rain to say the least. 


[Modified by WMTJ, 8:31 PM 5-13-2002]


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Dr. Blingonian)*

HAHAHA!!! Youre so dumb. He made 356 whp @ 16 psi, i made 330 whp at 13 psi. That is first of all. Now, 2nd, he runs 720 cc injectors...3rd he runs stand alone engine management.4th he runs an air to water intercooler which was probably packed with ice water. 5th, custom intake manifold...HAHAHA...Oh lord. I run stock injectors, factory engine management, air to air intercooler (dyno runs were hot right off a 1 hr drive), and a stock intake manifold. Lets see his peak torque i bet i made more at 13 psi, then he did at 16 psi. I am installing DTA stand alone over the next few weeks. I GUARANTEE you i make over 370 whp at 15 psi. Plus dont comment about how much boost i can run, you dont know what A/R or wheel i am running, or even what compressor and exhaust housings i run. My turbo will make 500 whp, can your supercharger do that. I got a good idea Dr. whatever, you come to waterfest and line up against me in your slow ass sc'd vr, then the bragging rights are on the line.


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## Dr. Blingonian (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (nycvr6)*

Im not braggin about anything. I never said your turbo VR couldn't DESTROY me in a straight line. You are arguing against nobody man. Im sorry, I thought you had said you were running 15 psi, thats my bad. But, you have to take these things hand in hand. If you are a drag queen, well, then at the track this guy is gonna have his IC packed with ice, so there is no need for saying that it isn't hp that he is going to have at the track. Dude, I guess we come from two different worlds. My VW is a fast show car in the making, yours is a wannabe 10 second full race dedicated car. I still fail to understand why people try and make a 1/4 mile car out of a VW. I drive my car because it is fun, I love the way it looks, and with the SC kit it can hold its own in most street races. I am not in this scene for bragging rights, and you sir just reminded me why I don't post in the technical forums anymore. Somehow many people here think that hp makes up for something that they are lacking... im out. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Dr. Blingonian)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Im not braggin about anything. I never said your turbo VR couldn't DESTROY me in a straight line. You are arguing against nobody man. Im sorry, I thought you had said you were running 15 psi, thats my bad. But, you have to take these things hand in hand. If you are a drag queen, well, then at the track this guy is gonna have his IC packed with ice, so there is no need for saying that it isn't hp that he is going to have at the track. Dude, I guess we come from two different worlds. My VW is a fast show car in the making, yours is a wannabe 10 second full race dedicated car. I still fail to understand why people try and make a 1/4 mile car out of a VW. I drive my car because it is fun, I love the way it looks, and with the SC kit it can hold its own in most street races. I am not in this scene for bragging rights, and you sir just reminded me why I don't post in the technical forums anymore. Somehow many people here think that hp makes up for something that they are lacking... im out. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif [HR][/HR]​You started the $hit talking in your previous post, saying my dyno sucks or some crap. Honestly you started all the personal crap. My car isnt a fully dedicated drag car, i drive my car everyday, rain or shine, school, and grocery store. Think what you want i could care less. Im not here for bragging rights either, but we are comparing turbo to sc, so i just wanted to prove my point. Im done here.


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## WICKED A2 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (nycvr6)*

Beware of Justin he does not talk poop...i would and did get out of his way on the road...that sleeper on 4lugs will roast any charged car that i have see to his day...


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## Bundaho (Nov 20, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Dr. Blingonian)*

quote:[HR][/HR]And, boost is boost, as long as the efficiency is the same.. Whether its coming from supercharger, turbo, or somebody wtih really strong lungs. If you match boost with efficiency, equal results will be yielded regardless of the means that you attain it from. [HR][/HR]​This is not entirely true. You are comparing apples with oranges. "boost is boost" only when you are talking about the same exact turbos/superchargers. EG: Take the ko3 (1.8t turbo) @ 15psi they probably put down 200hp. Now put a t3/4 on it and look at the hp @15psi. Huge difference. So its not boost is boost. It is flow is flow. As long as they flow the same for a givin boost and have identical efficent ranges then "boost is boost" would be correct. But i think thats pretty unlikely to have when comparing a turbo to a charger.


[Modified by Bundaho, 8:27 AM 5-14-2002]


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## Dr. Blingonian (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Bundaho)*

Flow is a funtion of boost dependent on efficiency. So, I am right, as are you. If you read everything I wrote you wouldn't have bothered posting, because what I said is entirely correct.


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## SUPERCHARGED-JETTA (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Dr. Blingonian)*

Well to all the S/C owners I am currently running a 12 lb pulley and when I get my trans fixed for the 3rd time







I will be doing some major tuning. I have posted my dyno from last time my car was on the rollers.
I turned 278whp and that was off the throttle due to A/F ratio. I ran to 6000 and turned those numbers with a stock motor, AMS kit, and a spearco water injection kit. just think if my car was aftercooled








Well as soon as I get my jetta back I will post my new numbers!


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## WMTJ (Jan 26, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (nycvr6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]HAHAHA!!! Youre so dumb. He made 356 whp @ 16 psi, i made 330 whp at 13 psi. That is first of all. Now, 2nd, he runs 720 cc injectors...3rd he runs stand alone engine management.4th he runs an air to water intercooler which was probably packed with ice water. 5th, custom intake manifold...HAHAHA...Oh lord. I run stock injectors, factory engine management, air to air intercooler (dyno runs were hot right off a 1 hr drive), and a stock intake manifold. Lets see his peak torque i bet i made more at 13 psi, then he did at 16 psi. I am installing DTA stand alone over the next few weeks. I GUARANTEE you i make over 370 whp at 15 psi. Plus dont comment about how much boost i can run, you dont know what A/R or wheel i am running, or even what compressor and exhaust housings i run. My turbo will make 500 whp, can your supercharger do that. I got a good idea Dr. whatever, you come to waterfest and line up against me in your slow ass sc'd vr, then the bragging rights are on the line. [HR][/HR]​A reason why Turbos make so much more torque is because they hit full boost much earlier than a blower type SC will. Turbos seem to maintain the NA torque/hp curves only much more enhanced. Now lets say you take an Eaton(roots) type blower and manage the type of boot we're talking about here. The torque would be unreal because they can hit their target psi faster than a Vortech charger and most Turbos. And just because he has bigger injectors doesn't mean that he can just feed more fuel than he needs ( a loss in power). Likely isn't even using them to half of their potential. As for the SDS, three words : State of Tune!
BTW. I beleive that Keith was tuning that car on those runs(notice the big dips). It's supposed to be running much improved these days. Not really a fair comparison. Apples and oranges. Why? Each type of FI produces different results according to their application.
How much boost are you running anyways?


[Modified by WMTJ, 8:20 PM 5-14-2002]


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## Bora20 (Feb 13, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Y2KVR6GTI)*

quote:[HR][/HR]







[HR][/HR]​Did anyone notice that this cars fule guage was full when he started this high speed run?


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## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (vwgroundzero)*

personally I'll be suggesting a turbo ... but I've noticed that Vortech supercharger isn't an option ... ?


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## pyschovr6 (Sep 25, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (ExtremeVR6)*

why make a VW a drag car? why make any car a drag car? People like to do it.
You want a Supra - now you are in the RWD class - have fun making that into an 8 second street machine.
SC turbo debate is pointless - some just want an easy bolt on of 50 or so hp that they have all the time. 
Others like myself want power that will literally rip the car in half.
so back to your question - why make a VW fast - because the Domestic muscle car scene is almost too easy to make them fast and hook.


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## WMTJ (Jan 26, 2001)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (pyschovr6)*

Before long we just might see 500whp out of a Vortech powered VR6!
Wait a little while, you'll see something quite respectable outta my VR6.


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## TheDeer (Sep 21, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (WMTJ)*

I had a z, vortech and now I am doing a turbo in the a2. Blowers are different than turbo's. I think its easier (much cheaper) to make a high powered turbo car. I would assume a fully built motor, engine management, aftercoolers, vortech (custom blower mappings), etc... Would be quite fast running 15 psi or higher, after all when I see the 4-5 second draggsters, there is a nice huge blower on those (not centrifical but hey who cares).
There is one thing a turbo can offer that the blower can't, you can easily control the boost levels of the turbo to kill wheel spin. On the blower once you got a high hp car, you will get no traction on the street, without some major cash into a wheel spins system or some kind of ingenious way to adjust the boost levels throughout the band.
They are both fun, you just have more knowledge and availability with a turbo, that is why I am doing one, didn't feel like spending tons for a built vortech car. My .02


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (nycvr6)*

You just can't compare peak boost seen for a fraction of a second at redline on a centrifugally supercharged VR6 to that of a turbo that holds that peak boost from 3000rpm to redline on a turbocharged VR6. If you want to compare boost, at least look at the boost seen at the torque and horsepower peaks...


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## TheDeer (Sep 21, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (Marty)*

all I was saying is that a built sc will spin pretty bad, if its max psi is 15. There is nothing short of feathering or letting off you can do about it, compared to a boost controller. Well anything cheap. So you can have a 11 sec or 12 sec turbo car and just turn the boost down, but you can't do that on a sc car. Street driving I am talking about.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Supercharger or Turbo for a vr6? (TheDeer)*

I was replying to these rather pointless comments:
quote:[HR][/HR]HAHAHA!!! Youre so dumb. He made 356 whp @ 16 psi, i made 330 whp at 13 psi. [HR][/HR]​


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