# FS: VW F3 by Bertils complete long block 4,000 OBO



## think 1 (Jul 3, 2002)

to the forum, asking 4,000.00 OBO 
This is a very rare motor and a great part of VW history, this motor was designed by Bertils to be the crate motor for VW's formula series it's a NA 4cyl which makes over 210hp and rev's over 8,000rpms. the motor is being sold "AS IS" complete with cast and machined long throttle bodies, dry sump, and a full custom Bertils big race head and short full race block, etc. If anybody has more info they would like to add to this thread be my guest. some pics:
























cheers,
Yarrow t


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## TehLonz (Oct 5, 2006)

oh baby!
1.8T bottom end?


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## epjetta (Sep 19, 2006)

*Re: (TehLonz)*

no 1.8t. that is a 1.8 8v


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (epjetta)*

What he means is that it clearly is NOT an 8v bottom end. Check the position of the thermostat housing.


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

its an ALH tdi block, or some other new internal waterpump block
it probably has a ridiculous stroke bore etc. Issam has done a similar setup with that block a 100mm crank and 20v head. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2483044
the only other thing I have to add those are 30lb ford red top injectors



_Modified by chrisbmx68 at 9:46 PM 4-22-2008_


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## TehLonz (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_What he means is that it clearly is NOT an 8v bottom end. Check the position of the thermostat housing.

Thank you


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## think 1 (Jul 3, 2002)

the block is based on an AEG block with alot of work, this makes power way above 8,500 rpms. 
cheers,
yarrow t


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## TehLonz (Oct 5, 2006)

New Fangled stuff owns me..


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (TehLonz)*

Very good buy right here guys!
That dry sump kit is $2800US+ alone + the 1000US+ in throttle bodies.Everything else is pretty much bonus!


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

the throttles are similar to the TWM units but longer and slightly different. TWM charges $2100 for throttles and injectors when I last checked about 6 months ago


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## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: FS: VW F3 by Bertils complete long block 4,000 OBO ([email protected])*

I think it would do well to know where you got it, and some more details on its history and etc. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## think 1 (Jul 3, 2002)

*Re: FS: VW F3 by Bertils complete long block 4,000 OBO (Digital K.)*

to the forum,
well for some history I guess, or what I know. This is what I've been told from talking to bertils and a few people who were involved with the program. if anybody has more info please add it to this or correct me. 
Well, VW wanted to start a VW formula series simular to what they have in Europe. as part of the series they would demand that all cars use a sealed crate motor designed to one spec to help level the field. VW contacted Bertils who was one of the best race engine builders at the time in the USA and contracted him to build 50 F3 spec motors. Bertils spent lots of time an $$ to design a very solid and reliably motor that they could use. The motors made over 210hp and reved to the moon. after bertils had made castings and 10 motors VW canceled the program and left everybody high and dry.
Supposedly one of the largest sponsors of the program was part of Jack Dainels and he got the motors, and then the motors started to circulate around with a few people and shops to try and sell them or use them. In the end I ended up with the last 4 motors, Bertils still has some of the parts in stock, but info and specs are limited. The motors are a very unique part of VW history in the USA. and for anybody who is into engine building should know the quality of Bertils and what they believe in. At this point I'm trying to sell what I have left, many can agree that the parts out side this motor are worth the asking price and the internals are a bonus. but I'm also accepting offers, as I need to sell.
I look forward to hearing replys and learning more about them if people have new info.
cheers,
yarrow t


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## CozySpeed (Sep 24, 2006)

is there two of them? my friends dad races and he is looking for a couple of good running revy motors for his team. if so i will tell him and see what he wants to do. also, im not a carb-itb buff but he runs carbs would that do anything to the power or anything.
thank you
skyler


_Modified by CozySpeed at 5:30 PM 4-26-2008_


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: FS: VW F3 by Bertils complete long block 4,000 OBO ([email protected])*

Any idea what crankshaft they've used in that engine? I'm asking because I notice they've got the hole for the stock crank sensor blocked off and an aftermarket sensor fitted to the front of the engine.


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## rivethead (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: FS: VW F3 by Bertils complete long block 4,000 OBO (ABA Scirocco)*

First of all this is a unbelievable steal at this price. To even begin to duplicate the parts alone are some serious cash. Knowing what Bertils was selling for parts a few years ago I can hazard a guess as to some of the parts. He wanted to sell me some Carillo Rods for my motor (right around 900-1000). IIRC the pistons were venolia or JE. He was selling Electromotive triggers (I have one from him). Though this looks like a MOTEC setup. Dont forget the work that went into the cylinder head, the porting would run over a grand alone, valves, springs, cams (probably billet), retainers etc... Puts you at probably a 3K-4K cylinder head to duplicate. He mentioned once something about diesel crankshafts I don't know what he put in these. But to build a motor like this would probably be well over 10K, and you would have to guess at the reliability. Bertils motors ran week after week at the races. A guy near me used to run a fairly hot Bertils motor. He would run it all season (SCCA). He ran one for 2 seasons before sending back for a refresh. 
Oh and BTW - This is a track motor it aint gonna run on pump gas.










_Modified by rivethead at 7:16 AM 4-27-2008_


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## think 1 (Jul 3, 2002)

thanks for the support. I have an interest in both motors and will keep people posted.
cheers,
yarrow t


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## rivethead (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

You could also try posting on racingjunk.com or on some of the SCCA forums. Someone into vintage racing might want these.


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## CatchMyDriftVW (Aug 22, 2004)

This is the first time I am seeing this type of motor. I was looking into doing a ITB setup on a 16v.... But this is an 8V with over 210HP and revs well about 8,000RPM!!!! 
VW's RULE!!! Guess I might jsut stick to an 8V...








Race Gas smells so good. There is a place right by my work that sells 100octane right at the pump... its like $6.00 a gallon.










_Modified by CatchMyDriftVW at 8:40 AM 5-7-2008_


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## think 1 (Jul 3, 2002)

thanks for the support, 
I don't want to discourage anybody from using a VW motor, but just for the record these motors when New had a retail price as a crate motor of over 14,000.00 
cheers,
yarrow t


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_when New had a retail price as a crate motor of over 14,000.00 


how used is it? how many seasons was it ran?
whats the compresson?


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## c_roc16vgli (Feb 26, 2002)

*Re: FS: VW F3 by Bertils complete long block 4,000 OBO ([email protected])*

What are the specs on the throttle bodies? Length, injector distance from the valves, butterfly distance from the valves, inside diameter at head and at opening? Wouldn't happen to have an extra intake I could borrow and duplicate/reverse engineer would you?


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## think 1 (Jul 3, 2002)

SOLD


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