# 1.8T Problem - Crank, no spark. - Fun Challenge



## Dayz (Oct 19, 2009)

Guys, I am in a bind right now. I need this car to run, you guys know when your wife's car needs to work!! 

Audi A4 1.8TQ 1998 - AEB Engine.

The car started to stall by itself when coming back from work. Would start again for a few minutes. This went on, the car was getting harder and harder to start. Now, no start at all.

I have the car in my driveway at the moment, got codes from my new VAG Hex-Can...will post them later.

1- Coil pack gets voltage, but no spark, or no trigger. 
2- I measured the resistance between the center pin of the left bank of the ICM with the 4 pin of the right bank and got different resistance. 

1- 7.5 Mohms
2- 0.013 Mohms
3- 7.5 Mohms
4- 7.5 Mohms

This indicates that the ICM was bad, or on its way. I got a used one, (I need it fast) resistance all measured at 8.5 Mohms. I think this one is good.

3- I get throttle body codes, 

4- Throttle body: The cable to the throttle is loose, is that normal? I hear the car trying to adjust the TB every time I try to start it.
Also, I hear a clicking noise from under my steering wheel, very often when I put the can to "ON"...like a clicking relay.

Help me out guys, 
Thanks
Dayz


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## jbutlertelecom (Aug 12, 2009)

*?*



Dayz said:


> Guys, I am in a bind right now. I need this car to run, you guys know when your wife's car needs to work!!
> 
> Audi A4 1.8TQ 1998 - AEB Engine.
> 
> ...


Check the obvious, fuses, then relays, then crank sensor(s) then cam sensor...


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## Dayz (Oct 19, 2009)

Chassis Type: 8D - Audi A4 B5
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 25 35 37 45 55 56 57 67 75 76 77

Mileage: 218510km/135775miles
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Address 01: Engine Labels: 058-907-55x-AEBN.lbl
Part No: 8D0 907 557 P
Component: 1.8L R4/5VT MOTR AT D07
Coding: 06251
Shop #: WSC 06335

5 Faults Found:
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low
 P1602 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
16521 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S2: Signal too Low
P0137 - 35-00 - -
17967 - Throttle Body (J338): Fault in basic settings
P1559 - 35-00 - -
18048 - Internal Control Module: EEPROM Error
P1640 - 35-00 - -
17953 - Throttle Valve Controller: Malfunction
P1545 - 35-00 - -
Readiness: 0110 0101

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01V-927-156.lbl
Part No: 8D0 927 156 BN
Component: AG5 01V 1.8l5VT USA 8508
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 00000

2 Faults Found:
00529 - Engine Speed Signal Missing
31-10 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent 00526 - Brake Light Switch-F
27-00 - Implausible Signal

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8L0-820-043-2D.lbl
Part No: 8L0 820 043 D
Component: A4 KLIMAVOLLAUTOMAT_D75
Coding: 04140
Shop #: WSC 06335

1 Fault Found:
01206 - Signal for Duration of Ignition Off Time
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Address 15: Airbags Labels: None
Part No: 8D0 959 655 D
Component: Airbag 7 Audi 0302
Coding: 00104
Shop #: WSC 06335

1 Fault Found:
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8D0-919-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 8D0 919 880 QX
Component: B5-KOMBIINSTR. VDO D10
Coding: 06342
Shop #: WSC 03023

No fault code found.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Address 35: Centr. Locks Labels: 8D0-862-257.lbl
Part No: 8L0 862 257 N
Component: CV-Pump D05
Coding: 16200
Shop #: WSC 06335

10 Faults Found:
01367 - Central Locking Pump Run Time Exceeded (Likely Leak)
35-00 - -
01371 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Driver's Side
35-00 - -
01374 - Alarm triggered by Terminal 15
35-00 - -
01370 - Alarm triggered by Interior Monitoring
35-00 - -
01369 - Alarm triggered by Hood Switch
35-00 - -
01368 - Alarm triggered by Luggage Compartment Switch
35-00 - -
01366 - Opened Due to Crash Signal
35-00 - -
01365 - Lock/Unlock Switch; Interior
29-00 - Short to Ground
00955 - Key 1
09-00 - Adaptation Limit Surpassed
00956 - Key 2
09-00 - Adaptation Limit Surpassed

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 4B0-951-173.lbl
Part No: 4B0 951 173
Component: Innenraumueberw. D02
Coding: 00101
Shop #: WSC 06335

2 Faults Found:
01382 - Alarm triggered by Anti-Theft Sensor; Front Left
35-00 - -
01383 - Alarm triggered by Anti-Theft Sensor; Front Right
35-00 - -

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Address 56: Radio Labels: 8D0-035-1xx-56.lbl
Part No: 4B0 035 186
Component: Radio D01
Coding: 00117
Shop #: WSC 06335

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


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## jbutlertelecom (Aug 12, 2009)

*WOW*

You have a lot of codes there. OK, so clear the codes and try to start. I have a suspicion that it is the immobilizer but clearing the codes (all of them) might prove that it's just a low battery causing all that trouble. I still think it's crank sensor related but could also be something more...

So, clear the codes, try to start, check again for codes... some codes might disappear where the ones that are truly at fault will come back...


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## Dayz (Oct 19, 2009)

Codes are clear. The only ones that comes up intermittently are the Throttle body. Trans comes with 0 codes and the rest is not important at this point.

How do I test a Crank sensor and a Cam sensor? I have Genuine Vag Com, can I test them with that? The car won't start.
Thanks
Dayz


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## SAphoto (Jun 8, 2009)

I'm friend of "DAYZ" in his driveway looking at the A4.. After some research, it does sound like the Crank Position Sensor could be the problem, but would it not show in the fault codes? Is there any way to test it other than replacing it?

The current fault codes are as follows:

Chassis Type: 8D - Audi A4 B5
Mileage: 218510km/135775miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 058-907-55x-AEBN.lbl
Part No: 8D0 907 557 P
Component: 1.8L R4/5VT MOTR AT D07
Coding: 06251
Shop #: WSC 06335

4 Faults Found:
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low
P1602 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17967 - Throttle Body (J338): Fault in basic settings
P1559 - 35-00 - -
18048 - Internal Control Module: EEPROM Error
P1640 - 35-00 - -
17953 - Throttle Valve Controller: Malfunction
P1545 - 35-00 - -
Readiness: 0110 0101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01V-927-156.lbl
Part No: 8D0 927 156 BN
Component: AG5 01V 1.8l5VT USA 8508
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 00000

1 Fault Found:
00526 - Brake Light Switch-F
27-00 - Implausible Signal

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8L0-820-043-2D.lbl
Part No: 8L0 820 043 D
Component: A4 KLIMAVOLLAUTOMAT_D75
Coding: 04140
Shop #: WSC 06335

1 Fault Found:
01206 - Signal for Duration of Ignition Off Time
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks Labels: 8D0-862-257.lbl
Part No: 8L0 862 257 N
Component: CV-Pump D05
Coding: 16200
Shop #: WSC 06335

1 Fault Found:
01367 - Central Locking Pump Run Time Exceeded (Likely Leak)
35-00 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other notes:
-All 4 coil packs were changed.
-All 4 spark plugs were changed.
-Fuel filter was changed.
-2000 km was driven after that, then the car stopped on the road but could be started again. It has been stalling ever since and now it won't start at all. 
-As noted above, ICM was suspicious as per multimeter test and was changed for a used HUCO ICM from a 98 Passat.

Any ideas would be appreciated!!


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## jbutlertelecom (Aug 12, 2009)

SAphoto said:


> I'm friend of "DAYZ" in his driveway looking at the A4.. After some research, it does sound like the Crank Position Sensor could be the problem, but would it not show in the fault codes? Is there any way to test it other than replacing it?
> 
> The current fault codes are as follows:
> 
> ...


I am thinking this is actually related to code 18048... Here's what Ross-Teck Wiki says:

18048/P1640/005696 - Internal Control Module: EEPROM Error

Possible Causes
Engine Control Module modified (e.g. Chip Tuning)
Engine Control Module faulty
Possible Solutions
Contact your Tuner 
Replace Engine Control Module

For more info on MIL codes go to:http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Fault_Codes
Good luck, I hope you find the problem. Make sure you report back what you find so as to help others who might have the same issues as you. Sorry for your misfortune...


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## TheBossQ (Aug 15, 2009)

Dayz said:


> Codes are clear. The only ones that comes up intermittently are the Throttle body. Trans comes with 0 codes and the rest is not important at this point.
> 
> How do I test a Crank sensor and a Cam sensor? I have Genuine Vag Com, can I test them with that? The car won't start.
> Thanks
> Dayz


You need an oscilloscope to test the crank and cam sensors.


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## genixia (Feb 8, 2002)

P0321, P0322 would indicate unusual or missing crankshaft sensor signal. Test the crankshaft sensor - 730-1000ohms between pins 2 and 3. Infinity between the other pin pairings.


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## SAphoto (Jun 8, 2009)

UPDATES:

Crankshaft position sensor was replaced with a brand new one, no change.
*Fuel pump relay is clicking.* In fact when the car was still starting there was a lot of clicking going on but I didn't know what that was exactly. Now that I've opened the relay compartment and felt the clicking, I can say it was likely the FP relay going nuts.

QUESTIONs
Could this be the source of the problem? Would a bad fuel pump relay cause the car to crank and not spark?? 

Another thing I could check is the camshaft sensor but how can this be done? I only have access to a multimeter. 

I'm starting to run out of things to check and replace!


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## jbutlertelecom (Aug 12, 2009)

*You have a bad ECU*



SAphoto said:


> UPDATES:
> 
> Crankshaft position sensor was replaced with a brand new one, no change.
> *Fuel pump relay is clicking.* In fact when the car was still starting there was a lot of clicking going on but I didn't know what that was exactly. Now that I've opened the relay compartment and felt the clicking, I can say it was likely the FP relay going nuts.
> ...


You got a error code 18048 which according to the ross wiki says the ECU is bad. Take it out and bring it to the dealer, have them verify it's bad...


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## SAphoto (Jun 8, 2009)

This is not a fun challenge anymore :banghead: 

Used ECU from a working car arrived today.. still no start.. but now I get a new codes (these codes can't be from the car it came from right?): 

4 Faults Found: 
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low 
P1602 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent 
16716 - Knock Sensor 2 (G66): Signal too Low 
P0332 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent 
18014 - Rough Road/Engine Torque Signal from ABS: Electrical Malfunction 
P1606 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent 
16487 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70): Signal too High 
P0103 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent 
Readiness: 0110 0101 

SHORT HISTORY OF RECENT WORK: 
-4 coil packs replaced by new 
-Spark plugs replaced, I believe gapped at 28 instead of 32 (to be verified and fixed) 
-Fuel filter replaced (new) 
-Stab link right and left (new) 
2000km driven, then problems above started (stall and now no start) 
-ICM replaced by used HUCO ICM from a Passat (pins tested) 
-Crank shaft Position sensor replaced with new one 
-ECU replaced with used one from working car 

What do I do now?


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## guayne (Jan 7, 2010)

have a beer, it should help the audi turn over


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## SAphoto (Jun 8, 2009)

*UPDATE -got it to start but...*

With the help of ETHER, the engine started (hallelujah). Once started it runs fine (I did not drive it, just at idle). I turned it off and on again. It did start, but with difficulty, and the following code appeared: 17956 - Boost Pressure Regulation Valve N75 

Cleared the code, it did not reappear. Now the car doesn`t start again -although I`m sure it would with ether. 

Any reading I should check from the VAG measuring values? Any suggestions? (besides beer)


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## 4bagels (Feb 10, 2009)

It does sound more and more like the Fuel Pump Relay, since you can get it to start with a shot of starting fluid, and the fuel pump relay was making funny rapid clicking noises.


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## SAphoto (Jun 8, 2009)

*FUEL PUMP is not getting power*

Finally the problem has been isolated. Voltage at the fusebox is 0.215 and same at the pump. Connecting the battery directly in fuse 28 (fuel pump) will start the car. So the problem is between the battery and the fusebox. 

The question is what to check now. I don't know how to follow the wire or where to look. I'm starting to lack time for all this and I think it would be cheap to get it fixed at a mechanic given the problem is identified, but if it's something I can do on my own quickly I'm all ears. 

Thanks again.


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## 4bagels (Feb 10, 2009)

I believe that fuse #28 (green wire) comes FROM the Fuel Pump Relay, so it's still quite possible that the relay is faulty.


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## Armagon (Apr 19, 2004)

have the same problem on a TT 2002 roadster
p1602 voltage supply
p0321 engine speed sensor

krank sensor was good but has still been replaced.
the wiring is good from the krank to ecu and from ecu to the coils.

I get no spark, the coils are good, but i still changed them to be sure, spark plugs are new.
The coils are not getting any trigger.
If i start the car and look in the measuring blocks, i will see the RPM go up to 200-240 rpm.

i checked with a used ecu from a jetta 2002 180 hp it should at least start for 2 seconds before it stalls again because of the immobilizer. But it does the same exact thing and in addition a couple more dtcs (02 sensor)

In case you ask me, fuses are OK, all grounds ave been cleaned and ecu relay is good.

The problem is: no trigger from the ecu to the coil even if the ecu gets the rpm right

Help !


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## 4bagels (Feb 10, 2009)

So with the new crank sensor, can you clear the P0321 error, and it will come right back? If so, I would double check that the signal from the crank sensor is indeed getting right to the pins on the ecu.

I'm not sure if the ecu does this or not, but it _could_ derive rpm from the cam sensor. If so, then you could still have a bad signal from the crank sensor, but still read an rpm from the ecu measuring blocks.


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## Armagon (Apr 19, 2004)

as i said, the krank sensor wiring has been checked and is fine.
the cam sensor has been checked too, we even tried with another one from a spare 1.8t i have.

i just checked the timing and it is perfectly on .


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## 4bagels (Feb 10, 2009)

Did you try to reset the error code to see if it comes right back? Just wondering if the ecu still thinks the Crank sensor is still a problem, or whether that has been resolved.


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## Armagon (Apr 19, 2004)

I've reset it too many times allready...
i've even touched the 2 battery poles together to empty all the condensers to reset it for real.

i'm now thinkin about recoding the ecu, don't know if that could do something.

one last interestingt point is the krank sensor, vw carry 2 different krank sensor, the difference would be the wire's lengt.

My parts supplier carries 1 krank sensor, it is the one with the longer wire.

That makes me think maybe there could be a possibility of problem there, but, i still get the fvcking signal in the measuring blocks.

Oh and one last important point : I tried the AMU ecu into an AWP jetta and it started, if i try the AWP ecu in the TT, it won't start, in all case, the TT will never start (make a spark). there are no trigger coming out of the ecu to the coils.

WHAT THE H3LL IS WRONG ???


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## Armagon (Apr 19, 2004)

problem found

Piston rod no1 and no4 bent

the number 4 rod bent the sensor wheel for krank sensor.

i didn't open further but it will need at least a set of piston rod @ 900 CAD + a sensor wheel @ 60 CAD

or a new engine.

thannks for help tho

Max


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## 4bagels (Feb 10, 2009)

wow 

wonder how that happened? timing belt was okay. did those pistons hydraulic? usually predetonation breaks rods, not bends them. just curious. sorry about the news though.


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