# modded hp?



## dead0narrivel (Aug 7, 2005)

i know HP gains on the 2.5 for mods are minimal but was wondering if anyone was pushing any impressive numbers or had/found a mod that the gains were worth the giant lump of green it costs


----------



## Mth676 (Dec 18, 2005)

*Re: modded hp? (dead0narrivel)*

i havent done any mods yet, but a couple months back when the ABD intake came out they posted a stock vs. Intake dyno charts. Even though overall there was only about 4-5 hp/tq gains, there was a nicer curve created by it. And at one point in the torque curve, there was a 20 ft/pds difference in torque with the intake, which i thought was pretty amazing.


----------



## Bryan127 (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: modded hp? (Mth676)*

supposedly it's half of the Lambo Gallardo V10...buy Lambo parts nd up grade valve train...That, in theory, should get you to 250HP...HAHA


----------



## Giancarlo (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: modded hp? (Bryan127)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bryan127* »_supposedly it's half of the Lambo Gallardo V10...buy Lambo parts nd up grade valve train...That, in theory, should get you to 250HP...HAHA

Cruel joke.


----------



## the s is silent (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: modded hp? (Bryan127)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bryan127* »_supposedly it's half of the Lambo Gallardo V10...buy Lambo parts nd up grade valve train...That, in theory, should get you to 250HP...HAHA

In theory. Take into account that the 2.5L has a lower static compression ratio and it doesn't rev nearly as high, and of course it's going to make less power. It uses a head off the V10, so you know the power isn't there because of cylinder head design. 
To get the most out of the 2.5L, you need to find out exactly what the bottlenecks are. Technical drawings would help. Somebody taking one apart would be better. Who knows...maybe VW lowered the rev limit because they had reason to believe that the rods could not take extended punishment over 6000 rpm (or whatever redline is). All things being equal (and assuming they did a good job of balancing the reciprocating mass (big assumption)) this engine should have no problem reving to where the 2.0 revs to, because of the identical stroke. Intake, exhaust, and cams will determine if it makes power there though.
Now, assuming the Lambo has the same big end on their rods, you could swap in their rods and pistons (most likely lighter and stronger). This would bump up the compression to whatever the Gallardo runs, assuming the deck height is the same between the two. 
From looking at the dyno curves in a different thread, and the way the torque curve drops off on the 2.5L, I'm willing to bet that either the intake or exhaust manifold design is terrible. Kinda like a cork. Or a restrictor plate.


----------



## the s is silent (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: modded hp? (Mth676)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mth676* »_i havent done any mods yet, but a couple months back when the ABD intake came out they posted a stock vs. Intake dyno charts. Even though overall there was only about 4-5 hp/tq gains, there was a nicer curve created by it. And at one point in the torque curve, there was a 20 ft/pds difference in torque with the intake, which i thought was pretty amazing.

do you have a link the the dyno plots...I'd be interested in seeing them?


----------



## vdubkeller (Jul 14, 2006)

*Re: modded hp? (Mth676)*

Neuspeed is coming out with atleast one turbo kit for the 2.5L by fall. I believe they will have stage 1,2,and 3 kits. When I called them they told me that the hp numbers were awesome. Price is still unknown.


----------



## dragon007 (May 7, 2006)

*Re: modded hp? (dead0narrivel)*

ECU upgrade should give you a bit more power.


----------



## dead0narrivel (Aug 7, 2005)

*Re: modded hp? (dragon007)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dragon007* »_ECU upgrade should give you a bit more power.

yeah but its $350 for the giac chip by ABD and its only an 8-12 hp gain... doesnt seem worth it to me


----------



## the s is silent (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: modded hp? (dead0narrivel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dead0narrivel* »_
yeah but its $350 for the giac chip by ABD and its only an 8-12 hp gain... doesnt seem worth it to me

But those are only peak gains...what's it do for the rest of the power curve? If it gives a much flatter torque cuve and significantly more power throughout the powerband, then it would be worth it. A dyno chart would be nice for things like this, but then again I realize I can't get a dynot chart for every single product people offer. But, when the HP/$$ ratio starts to go down, it may be in their best interest to provide the dyno chart otherwise, I agree...it doesn't seem worth it.


----------



## ZippinVeeDub (Jun 24, 2006)

*Re: modded hp? (dead0narrivel)*

*bump*


----------



## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: modded hp? (the s is silent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the s is silent* »_
*But those are only peak gains...what's it do for the rest of the power curve? If it gives a much flatter torque cuve and significantly more power throughout the powerband, then it would be worth it. A dyno chart would be nice for things like th*is, but then again I realize I can't get a dynot chart for every single product people offer. But, when the HP/$$ ratio starts to go down, it may be in their best interest to provide the dyno chart otherwise, I agree...it doesn't seem worth it.

i agree, we cant just look at the max gain by this product. i'd say its well worth it too, if the power/torque curves are better. 
btw, just because VW borrowed the head design from a V10 doesnt make this car have more potential (nor powerful). its ONLY the head DESIGN... they didnt take the V10 and hack it in half


----------



## Bryan127 (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: modded hp? (mujjuman)*

OK did everyone see the "HAHA" behind my last post??? It was a joke, the new new 2.5 is going to be just like the outgoing 2.0. It's not that tunable but I'm sure someone will make sick power with it (much like all of VW's base engines).


----------



## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: modded hp? (Bryan127)*

sorry, i thought you were serious, because lately i have been hearing this too much.


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: modded hp? (mujjuman)*

Well its still an n/a motor no matter what. You can do chip, intake, cam, header, exhaust, pullies and get like ... 25 more hp out of it. Then yo ustart having to do head work, higher compression, different intake manifolds etc to get another 25 ors o out of it. You're not gonna get much more than 175-180whp out of these motors without some sort of forced induction, but people still do all motor VRs and all motor 2.0's and still love them just the same.


----------



## Bryan127 (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: modded hp? (WhiteG60)*

bump for more info on pwr boosters


----------



## GLIdeR32 (May 1, 2006)

*Re: modded hp? (dead0narrivel)*

low compression = FI


----------



## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: modded hp? (GLIdeR32)*

FI ftw


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: modded hp? (mujjuman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mujjuman* »_FI ftw









Motha effin right!


----------



## Bryan127 (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: modded hp? (WhiteG60)*

I'm partial to all motor myself....now in theory, the 2.5 should be able put down ample numbers with some head work and raised compression...


----------



## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: modded hp? (Bryan127)*

oh yes, IMO 9.5:1 (or whatever it is) is a bit low for NA engines.... so just bump it up to 10 or 10.5:1 and it would be pretty good.... but would the stock internals hold up? otherwise, its FI


----------



## Deception (Oct 5, 2000)

*Re: modded hp? (mujjuman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mujjuman* »_oh yes, IMO 9.5:1 (or whatever it is) is a bit low for NA engines.... so just bump it up to 10 or 10.5:1 and it would be pretty good.... but would the stock internals hold up? otherwise, its FI









Lower compression ratio = Easier to add boost.
Lower compression ratio = Ability to use 87 octane (regular) gasoline = Ideal for "base" model car for the average driver.


----------



## the s is silent (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: modded hp? (Deception)*

Is the head just based off the design of the lambo head (as I have read in this thread) or is it an off the shelf lambo part (as I have read in other threads)?


----------



## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: modded hp? (the s is silent)*

the design of the 2.5 head is based on the design of the Gallardo V10 head which is based on the S8 head. AFAIK


----------



## Mortal_Wombat (Jan 29, 2004)

has anyone looked inside of one of the heads yet?
its possible that vw did very little work on cleaning up the ports....they could have also cast the heads with ALOT of extra meat around the ports so they can be ported to hell and back.


----------



## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Mortal_Wombat)*

lol


----------



## VolksRacer2 (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: (mujjuman)*

You have to remember that this engine was designed for torque, not HP. That means that the cam profile is designed for low-end work, not high-end. Higher compression, a cam designed for 6500+ RPM, a proper intake and exhaust should return pretty decent gains.
As far as the person who asked "will the stock internals take it?"...This is a VW engine, not a Honda. It will easily take anything you're going to get out of it N/A and still be around in 100K+ miles. That's what I've always loved about VW's! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## (In)Sanity (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: (VolksRacer2)*

Here is a good article on this
http://vettenet.org/torquehp.html
Horsepower = (Torque * RPM) / 5252

More or less the 2.5 suffers because of the RPM limits. If you can get the 2.5 to about 1k RPM's higher it appears it would be a real killer. As it stands now it's awesome at tearing up your tires, but falls out on the top end. I personally love the feel and sound of it. I will however try to get more RPM's out of it.


_Modified by (In)Sanity at 8:38 PM 8-22-2006_


----------



## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: ((In)Sanity)*

nice. good info guys. keep it coming


----------



## base1001 (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: (mujjuman)*

i am just going to save for a lambo


----------



## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (VolksRacer2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VolksRacer2* »_You have to remember that this engine was designed for torque, not HP. That means that the cam profile is designed for low-end work, not high-end. Higher compression, a cam designed for 6500+ RPM, a proper intake and exhaust should return pretty decent gains. 

thats what i said in another thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *(In)Sanity* »_More or less the 2.5 suffers because of the RPM limits. If you can get the 2.5 to about 1k RPM's higher it appears it would be a real killer. As it stands now it's awesome at tearing up your tires, but falls out on the top end. I personally love the feel and sound of it. I will however try to get more RPM's out of it.

yeah i always thought this beast could make more hp with the redline just a bit higher... and better cams.... and higher compression...
im wondering if just those would get the 2.5 to make 180hp and 190lbft atleast.


----------



## T62 (Jun 15, 2006)

*Re: (mujjuman)*

Yeah, because as it is 150 horse from a 2.5 liter 5 cylinder is a laughing stock.
I'm willing to bet it shares nothing with its reputable cousin the lambourghini.
I mean crap, the low end is nothing to write home about for a 2.5 inline 5! Yikes.


----------



## dead0narrivel (Aug 7, 2005)

are there even any internal parts made for these blocks yet?


----------



## omni1 (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: (dead0narrivel)*

Nope.


----------



## dead0narrivel (Aug 7, 2005)

damnit...


----------



## omni1 (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: (dead0narrivel)*

I know it sucks, im on the verge of trading in my jetta and getting a srt4 or focus


----------



## dead0narrivel (Aug 7, 2005)

i wouldnt do it just yet... because as soon as you sell it you know the parts will flood the market.... wait ... sell it and take one for the team







just playin man


----------



## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (T62)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T62* »_Yeah, because as it is 150 horse from a 2.5 liter 5 cylinder is a laughing stock.
I'm willing to bet it shares nothing with its reputable cousin the lambourghini.
I mean crap, the low end is nothing to write home about for a 2.5 inline 5! Yikes.

yes, that is a common misconception. it only shares the head DESIGN... not even the actual head. 
the engine is not bad though. i love it.


----------



## Storyinthesoil11 (Sep 17, 2006)

*Re: (dead0narrivel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dead0narrivel* »_i wouldnt do it just yet... because as soon as you sell it you know the parts will flood the market.... wait ... sell it and take one for the team







just playin man

ROFL


----------



## omni1 (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: (Storyinthesoil11)*

;-), im on the edge...so dont push me







haha


----------



## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (omni1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *omni1* »_;-), im on the edge...so dont push me







haha

hmm, your profile says "MKV 2.5T"
more details!!!


----------



## Yevi (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (mujjuman)*

thinkin.........98,99,100%
>
evaluating..............
>
complete ...............25%


----------



## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Yevi)*

hmm.....


----------

