# CIS Rookie question. 85 Golf.



## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

I recently acquired an 85 golf. Base model. No PS, no AC. GX engine. Westmoreland car.

I replaced the cap and rotor but it required the larger inner diameter rotor from a 16v.

It also has this system for fuel delivery and cold start.

























This looks a little to advanced for an early 85. Am I wrong? Is this what would have came stock or has someone done an update at some point?


----------



## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

Yes, a lot of the 1985 models had cis-e without knock control as opposed to the cis lambda. The distributor should have mechanical and vacuum advance. The system is the same as used on 87-90 Foxes (although 87 Canadian Foxes were CIS basic).

How are those fuel lines not all rusty?? Do they not salt in Colorado?


----------



## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

As stated it is the factory installed system, early CIS-e w/o knock sensor controled ignition. Don't know where you got this information from, but it does not us the same rotor as the 16v engine. Guess my feeling was correct all along, but that's OK. Keep in mind the Volkswagen ad shown at the top of the web site pages, "you can't fake fast".


----------



## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

WaterWheels said:


> As stated it is the factory installed system, early CIS-e w/o knock sensor controled ignition. Don't know where you got this information from, but it does not us the same rotor as the 16v engine. Guess my feeling was correct all along, but that's OK. Keep in mind the Volkswagen ad shown at the top of the web site pages, "you can't fake fast".



Man what is your issue with me? I havent done anything to you ever? Are you now just going to follow me around and talk **** in every post I make? I got the information from the car sitting in my fricken drive way and from the guys at Salta Motorsport who said they thought it looked like a later styled cis system. As stated I replaced the cap and rotor. I ordered the rotor that I have seen in every 8v I have ever owned. (A small list albiet its only 4) This car uses a different rotor than any other one. After going through all the available 4 cylinder rotors the one that fit was listed as the rotor for a 16v. Hence the question. "Is this standard on this engine or has someone mucked with it? When have I ever in either post ever tried to fake fast?
I asked a simple question about compression and a simple question about a fueling system I admitedly no very little about. I have made no claims about anything go fast in either post.

There are tons of tedious how do I make my 8v faster posts everyday for you to rip on I dont understand why you have decided I am your new arch enemy.


----------



## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

ziddey said:


> Yes, a lot of the 1985 models had cis-e without knock control as opposed to the cis lambda. The distributor should have mechanical and vacuum advance. The system is the same as used on 87-90 Foxes (although 87 Canadian Foxes were CIS basic).
> 
> How are those fuel lines not all rusty?? Do they not salt in Colorado?


Thanks for the help. Is the larger shaft in the distributer normal for this sytem?

The car is from New Mexico I was told. But the lack of any sort of rust also made me wonder if this was an updated sytem.

Thanks!


----------



## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

We’ll do the car part first as that to me is more important than the personal matters and you can skip what follows you want to.

You’re saying you have a 16v VW engine in your driveway and it has a rotor that also fits the distributor pictured? If that is what you are trying to pass along then sorry, bull. Volkswagens made during your time frame used either a 14mm rotor or a 10mm rotor (shaft size or the hole size whichever you like). Polos use an even smaller size for some models, 8mm or 9mm (never measured), but there are no Polos there. The distributors which have fixed advances, knock sensor ignitions and Motronic systems, use the smaller 10mm type rotor. Ignition systems with mechanical/vacuum advance, like what is pictured, use the larger 14mm type rotor. 

If you used some catalog that lists a 16v rotor the same as your engine, stop using that catalog. Now if you just saw that an 8v rotor and a 16v rotor were listed together, yes that is possible for some 8v engines, but not yours. Same goes gor “Salta Motorsports”. If they didn’t know the difference between engines, don’t let them touch your car. If you only mean they said the part about it looking like a later CIS system then fine, it does look almost like a CIS-e or CIS Motronic.

Not sure I understand what you are asking about it being standard or changed. The ignition distributor on the pictured engine is the correct type (there are different ones of that type so I will not say the correct one) for that engine. Pop the cap, remove the rotor and measure either the shaft it slides onto or the hole in the rotor and it will be 14mm. There is also a felt pad under the rotor in the shaft which you should put a drop of oil on every year or so and I’m sure it was never done. If the shaft or hole measures 10mm then the insides of the distributor have been altered and it is worthless unless you also have the ignition system to go with the modification.

That part out of the way now, here is my response to the other comments/questions you have. I really have no issues with you and no I have no intention or reason to stalk you on the site for any reason. To that I think you just have to get a grip on yourself and not be so paranoid. As far as being my new arch enemy, well you can refer to the prior sentence for the answer to that one. If I were to list my top 100 enemies, you would not even be on the list to consider. In fact you would not even be on a list period, friend or foe.

It is obvious you missed the point about the VW ad, or you selected to miss it? It was in reference to the prior post we shared words in, remember? You stated to a response I made, “Here is a better why to ask. Why do you assume I know nothing about vws or engine basics?“. To which I stated, amoung other things, „Because of the questions you ask, how you ask them . . .„ This post was not much different when it comes to the question of „Is he knowledgeable or is he lacking in the knowledge area?“ So call it a misunderstood little bit of sarcasm dating back to the other post, nothing more. Had zero to do with „going fast“, just the concept of the ad as it related to our discussion.


----------



## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

WaterWheels said:


> The distributors which have fixed advances, knock sensor ignitions and Motronic systems, use the smaller 10mm type rotor. Ignition systems with mechanical/vacuum advance, like what is pictured, use the larger 14mm type rotor.
> 
> If you only mean they said the part about it looking like a later CIS system then fine, it does look almost like a CIS-e or CIS Motronic.
> 
> Not sure I understand what you are asking about it being standard or changed. The ignition distributor on the pictured engine is the correct type (there are different ones of that type so I will not say the correct one) for that engine. Pop the cap, remove the rotor and measure either the shaft it slides onto or the hole in the rotor and it will be 14mm. There is also a felt pad under the rotor in the shaft which you should put a drop of oil on every year or so and I’m sure it was never done. If the shaft or hole measures 10mm then the insides of the distributor have been altered and it is worthless unless you also have the ignition system to go with the modification.


This is some of the info I was looking for. I have never owned an 8V with the larger diameter shaft and yes the parts book I was going through only showed the part for a 16v engine. Which is what prompted the question. I will look for the felt pad and see if it has been oiled. 

I only want to get the car back to perfect running stock condition before I go into the "tuning" of it.

I dont know why but I find your posts to be condesending. If they are not ment that way then my appologies for getting upset. 

Thanks for your info.


----------



## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

WaterWheels said:


> As stated it is the factory installed system, early CIS-e w/o knock sensor controled ignition. Don't know where you got this information from, but it does not us the same rotor as the 16v engine. Guess my feeling was correct all along, but that's OK. Keep in mind the Volkswagen ad shown at the top of the web site pages, "you can't fake fast".


 mines NOT CIS-e, and it still takes the larger rotor that the 8v w/ points ign uses as well. vac/mech advance dizzy, just no points.. 

definitely does not use the same rotor as the 16v.. 

my REAL GTI on the other hand, takes a 10mm rotor.. 

anything with electronically controlled timing, uses a 10mm rotor.. 

anything with mechanically controlled timing, uses a 14mm rotor..


----------



## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

Glegor said:


> mines NOT CIS-e, and it still takes the larger rotor that the 16v uses as well. vac/mech advance dizzy.


 Ok now we are getting somewhere. Is yours US built? Are you still running all of this in stock form? 

Are there solid benefits of getting rid of the Vac advance stuff?


----------



## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

Glegor said:


> mines NOT CIS-e, and it still takes the larger rotor that the 16v uses as well. vac/mech advance dizzy.


 What you may or may not have, is irrelevant really. Fact is that the 16v engines use the same rotor as the Digifant engines, 052 906 225C if you want the part number. They have a 10mm hole for the 10mm shaft of the distributor. 8v engines with mechanical/vacuum ignition advance use a rotor with a larger hole for the larger shaft, 14mm (not counting small block motors that were not shipped to NA). With a Hall effects distributor, points use a different part, the rotor part number is 055 905 225B. You will find the part number on the under side of an original VW rotor if you look. Bottom line here is that 16v engines and 8v engines with mechanical/vacuun advanve ignitions do not use the same rotor. Please show me a 16v ignition distributor which uses a 14mm mounting hole rotor or an 8v ignition distributor with mechanical advance which uses a 10mm mounting hole rotor.


----------



## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

God, i forgot my car looked just like that when i bought it a few years ago.. minus the cis-e.

mines lambda, i like it better than E..

btw, its really EASY to somewhat hide the wiring on these cars in the bay.. its not 100% gone, but its definitely not the first thing you see when you pop the hood now..










i hate the way it looks, VW just threw the wiring harness on top of the engine and hooked everything up.. they didnt hide anything, or make anything look nice..










it was soo simple to run the wiring UNDER everything, rather than on top of it all..


----------



## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

WaterWheels said:


> What you may or may not have, is irrelevant really. Fact is that the 16v engines use the same rotor as the Digifant engines, 052 906 225C if you want the part number. They have a 10mm hole for the 10mm shaft of the distributor. 8v engines with mechanical/vacuum ignition advance use a rotor with a larger hole for the larger shaft, 14mm (not counting small block motors that were not shipped to NA). With a Hall effects distributor, points use a different part, the rotor part number is 055 905 225B. You will find the part number on the under side of an original VW rotor if you look. Bottom line here is that 16v engines and 8v engines with mechanical/vacuun advanve ignitions do not use the same rotor. Please show me a 16v ignition distributor which uses a 14mm mounting hole rotor or an 8v ignition distributor with mechanical advance which uses a 10mm mounting hole rotor.


you were right.. 

mechanical advance/points use a 14mm rotor.. but the rotors are different for the 2 systems, just a common shaft size is all.. i believe the amount of resistance in the rotor is different between the 2 systems..

cap and rotor off an air cooled bug fits on a points dizzy for a rabbit, IIRC..

electronically advanced uses a 10mm rotor..


----------

