# Sticky  How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

As many of you know, I don’t own an Eos. This makes it difficult to provide practical advice based on my own experience with the car, as I do in the Phaeton forum. The staff at my VW dealership (Volkswagen Richmond Hill) follow activities in the forum, and when a customer called to say that his Eos had a water leak, the service manager at my dealer invited me to come up and watch the problem-solving process.


The Eos with the water leak was the first Eos my dealer sold. It was delivered to the customer only a few days after the Eos went on sale here in North America. It has a fairly low VIN (in the 7,000’s), which suggests that it was probably built sometime in the summer of 2006. This is noteworthy, not because there is anything unique about a low VIN, but because the car is now 8 or 9 months old. This is certainly more than enough time for the seals on the car to dry out.
The owner of the Eos dropped it off at the dealership, and the first thing the technicians did was to have a look at the windows and roof to make sure that they were all operating smoothly and properly, and that all the measurements (especially the reference lines at the top of the window glass) were within specifications. No problems were found. The next step in the troubleshooting process was to carry out a ‘baseline water test’ to determine the extent of the leakage. The dealer principal sat in the driver seat, the windows were closed, and the car was flooded with large volumes of low-pressure water from a rather large hose in the wash bay. After about 30 seconds, he started honking the horn, and when the water was turned off, a very wet dealer principal emerged from the car. No doubt about it, the car leaked.
The leak manifested itself at the front left corner of the windshield, where the roof touches the top of the windshield. None of us knew where the water was getting in, but it was clear that the water was ‘getting out’- in other words, dripping into the cabin - at one specific location.
We all put our heads together to try and determine what the facts were. They were as follows:
*1)* The car was almost 9 months old, even though it was only delivered to the customer 5 months ago.
*2)* No-one had ever lubricated the rubber seals on the car.
*3)* The windows and roof all appeared to work properly, except for some deformation (pinching) of the seals on either side of the sunroof. This deformation appeared to be caused by the sunroof panel binding on the roof seal, and pulling part of the seal downwards.
*4)* All the technicians had been to Eos training.
*5)* All of us had read all the technical bulletins (TB’s) issued for the Eos.
*6)* None of us had ever read the owner manual.
*7)* No-one wanted to start any kind of dis-assembly. We wanted to try the ‘least invasive’ solutions first.
So, after we had all read the '3.2' section of the Owner Manual (this is the "Tips and Advice" section, and there is some really good information in there), and after some discussion, it was decided that since the owner manual suggests on page 25 of section 3.2 that the roof seals be lubricated with VW lubricant part number G 052 172 A1, maybe it would be a good idea to start by doing exactly that.
We ordered three bottles of lubricant. None of us knew how much would be needed, but we knew that the bottles were pretty small. Because the dealer principal was still wet from the baseline water test, he had no disagreement at all with the technician’s decision to order three bottles of lubricant. Because the lubricant would not arrive until the next day, we asked the PDI person to do a thorough detail of the car, to ensure that there was no dirt or other external influences on the car.
The next day, the lubricant arrived. We all took turns applying it – the technicians, myself, the PDI person, and some of the sales staff. We made some interesting discoveries:
*1)* An Eos has two different types of seals on it. Roof seals and the seals that windows touch are made of a different material than door seals or trunk lid seals.
*2)* These ‘different’ seals have sort of a rough texture, kind of like a cat’s tongue.
*3)* If the seals are dry (not lubricated), they will be quite hard, not pliable, and will not tightly conform to the window edge when the window is rolled up.
*4)* If the seals are dry, they have a dull finish, and sort of a ‘white’ luster to them.
*5)* It is easiest to lubricate the seals on either side of the sunroof if the sunroof is open.
*6)* It is easiest to lubricate the seal that goes across the middle rear of the roof if the roof is stopped partway through the retraction process, before the front part of the roof begins to lift off the windshield.
*7)* It is easiest to lubricate the windshield seal if the roof is fully retracted.
*8)* To lubricate seals at the top of the windows, put the lubricant on your finger, then rub it in.
*9)* If a seal looks deformed, rub lots of lubricant on it, and keep rubbing the seal until it ‘rehydrates’.
*10)* If you leave the roof open for an hour after doing the lubrication, the seals seem to suck up any excess lubricant that might be sitting on them.
After we finished lubricating all the seals, we conducted another water test. The results were “almost perfect”. There were no leaks from the roof, but there was a small leak – just a few drops – from the area beside the exterior rear view mirror on the driver side. Investigation revealed that we had lubricated the window seals there with the door closed, hence, we did not fully lubricate the seal – we missed the part that hides behind the exterior rear view mirror. After applying lubricant to this area, we carried out the water test again, and the result was perfection – after 15 minutes of hosing the car, not a single drop of water was found inside.
The PDI person dried off the car, and we noticed that there were greasy spots on the paint where we had unintentionally deposited excess lubricant. The excess lubricant can be easily removed from the painted surfaces with a paper towel and some windshield washer fluid – no fancy solvents are needed. Because the paint is not porous, the lubricant can’t sink into it.
Below are a whole bunch of photos that I took – hopefully this will explain the procedure better. Many thanks to all the service department staff at my VW dealer for their help making this post.
Michael
*Eos Owner Manual - Page 25 of Section 3.2 (NAR English Version)*








*What it looked like before work began*








*When seals are not properly lubricated, they bind and get pinched, and as a result, do not keep water out.*
















*Visual characteristics of a seal that needs lubrication*








*This is the stuff to use, simply because this is what the owner manual says we should use.*








*The alignment rack is a handy place to use to do the work.*








*Apply the lubricant sparingly, right out of the bottle (clip the top of the spout).*








































*With the roof in this position, you can get the "butt ends" of the window seals, as well as the rear seal that runs horizontally across the roof.*
_Don't let the roof lift up from the windshield - otherwise, it will come back down on you!_








*Don't forget this seal.*








*...but, DO NOT LUBRICATE the fuzzy seal that touches the trunk lid.*
_This seal is obviously different from the others - it is fuzzy, not rubber._


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)*

Just a post-script:
After this was all done, the staff at my dealership decided that they were going to modify the way that they carried out the PDI (Pre-delivery inspection) on new Eos.
Because the Eos is a seasonal vehicle, it is not uncommon for the PDI to be carried out several months before the vehicle is actually delivered to the customer. By example, there is a really nice Eos in the showroom of my VW dealer right now (the one I am salivating over), and it has been there for a few months. The seals could dry out if the lubricant is applied at the time of PDI, especially if the car is not purchased quickly after the PDI.
So, the new plan at my VW dealer is as follows: Roof seals will be lubricated on the day of delivery to the customer. We found out that it takes about half a bottle of lubricant to do the entire car, so, the plan is that the techs will lubricate the seals on delivery day, then the salesperson will give the remaining half-bottle of lubricant to the customer as a gift, and at the same time, explain both how to apply it, and the importance of using the lubricant as explained in the owner manual.
I am looking forward to getting my half bottle of lubricant when I finally get around to buying an Eos...






















Michael
*This is what was leftover after everything was lubricated*
I only needed half the bottle of Krytox to do the initial lubrication of the whole vehicle.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*

*Archival Note:*
Here are links to two previous threads (now both locked, to keep all the discussion here on this thread) that also addressed the issue of lubricating the roof with the special lubricant (Krytox):
Roof seals-- dry with white spots, or is it "just wax"?
Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with DuPont Krytox Lubricant
Special thanks and recognition is due to forum member _Wolfsburger Mit Fries_ for the pioneering work he did on the Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with DuPont Krytox Lubricant thread.
Michael


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## chris2.0tdsg (Nov 29, 2006)

Michael,
many thanks for the SUPER write-up, this is a great help.
Tomorrow i will pick up my EOS, and can come VERY prepared.
Thanks again for this thorough review!
Chris


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## swordfish1 (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*

Class.
Thanks very much for the informative thread.
I think I'll be investing in some of the G 052 172 A1. It looks way easier to apply than the spray my dealer gave me (loads of overspray).
Luckily, as I've said before, I've had no leakage problems, but prevention is surely better than cure. Off to order some now.


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## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*

Micheal, thank you for all that information, nice details, i ran a copy for my own use, and ill let my little home town dealer look it over if they want,? Doug


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## darien (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (minnvw)*

Michael:
I have a quick question to ask you. The pinches on the moonroof, after you applied Krytox, were you guys able deformed the pinches back to normal stage? In another words, no more pinches?
I have pinches on both sides of my moonroof seals. The last time I brought it in to the VW service, the mechanics said it was normal for all EOS. However there was an EOS in the showroom didn't have that pinches at all.


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## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

I have the same follow up. My car expereinces the same symptoms, I can move the seal with my hand, but after many krytox coats on the sun roof seal, the seal still gives on the sunroof, like the one on your picture..
Once the car was closed up, did the sunroof not bite the seal anymore ?
I purchased the GM version of the Krytox a while ago, maybe the VW version has something else on it that makes it better ???


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## Timokreon (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Wonderful writeup. It confirms my suspicions that many of the "problems" persons have been stating, of water leaks and rattles, results directly from not maintaining the seals.








I certainly wish all dealers/service areas were as top-notch as yours. If so, VW wouldn't have quite so many complaints coming in. Also out of curiousity, considering your seeming very good status in the VW world, do you think it all possible you would be able to contact the head honchos in VW, give them your writeup, and PERHAPS VW would send this out to all dealerships as a TB, or maybe just a very important item that NEEDS to be done to EVERY EOS?
Anyways, regardless of the outcome of that, I appreciate the notes, and I personally am going to print this out, and very NICELY give a copy of this to my sales person, sales manager, service manager, and service tech.
Thanks again


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## ehdg eos (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (Timokreon)*

Micheal,
Thank you for the very informative post. Couple questions how often do they think the lubricant needs to be reapplied?
Second do you think most dealers can be talked into applying this before we take delivery of these cars when new?
Tks again.


_Modified by ehdg eos at 10:30 AM 2-20-2007_


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## andythai (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*

Michael,thanks so much,its things like these that many of us dont know,I should have my EOS by the end of this week.I just want to ask you a few things,i live in Cyprus and our weather here in the summer is boilling about 38-40 degrees celsius.Firstly will my dealer give me lubricant to start me off or should i order some,and because of our hot weather here how often should i lubricate the seals.finally how soon should i make the first lubrication? thanks Andy-Cyprus


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## lonerthx (Oct 5, 2006)

I had minor leaks again on Sunday after heavy rain, so yesterday I applied the lubricant for the first time. Now I just have to wait for the next downpour to test it out.
I received my car at the beginning of January brand new off the boat. Given the pictures and descriptions above, I'd say that all my seals were complete dry and stiff, and had possibly never been treated.
The difference in look and feel is extremely noticable after applying just a small amount. 


_Modified by lonerthx at 9:55 AM 2-20-2007_


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)*

Micheal,
Once again you have provided us with an informative and professional post. Many thanks to you for being so dedicated to the Eos forum, despite not being an owner.
Your post reflects 100% of what I experienced when lubricating the seals. (except the part about having a leak to begin with)
I would like to add the following comments, and please note; I am not slamming VW here, I am identifying some points to assist in furthering our overall understanding, and hopefully infuencing VW to implement a few minor changes.
1. It is excellent news that your particular dealership is implementing pre-delivery lubrication of the seals. Hopefully VW corporate will recognize this important maintence procedure and encourage their worldwide dealer network to perform this task as part of every pre-delivery inspection for the Eos. (as per my previous post, my Eos was delivered with dry seals)
2. VW corporate will recognize this as an important routine service item and amend the routine maintenance schedule for the Eos to include seal lubrication at the appropriate intervals.
3. Hopefully VW will update the the information in booklet 3.2 Tips and Adivce, Chapter "Care of Rubber Seals" to correct the following:
- Better identify all the seals that require regular routine maintenance. (the rear middle seal is currently not identified)
- Correct the statement *"The Rear Window Element Must Not Lift Up!" *in the section explaining how to access the sunroof seals for lubrication. It is necessary for the rear window element to lift up in order to access the "middle rear roof seal".
4. This last point is more a suggestion that may help avoid incorrect seal maintenance. In booklet 3.2, Chapter "Care of Vehicle Exterior", Washing by Hand, the owners manual recommends spraying rubber seals with *silicone* spray to help keep them pliable. If you read carefully it does state "do *not* spray the CSC roof seals". 
Chapter "Care of Vehicle Exterior", Cleaning the CSC Roof it clearly states "*do not* use cleaning or appearance products that contain silicone or acids on the CSC roof seals". This same statement is repeated in Chapter "Care of Rubber Seals", Caring for the Rubber Seals on the Rear Lid"
To help prevent accidental application of silicone based products, VW may want to consider dropping the reference to Silicone under "Washing by Hand" and simply recommend G 052 172 A1 _for all rubber seals_.
Kevin








*PS I couldn't find the "Krytox" literature where I read this: I seem to recall Dupont recommends protecting against skin absorbtion when using Krytox. Just a heads up that you may want to consider using a vinyl, latex, or nitrile, glove when applying the lubricant. Just to be on the safe side.*
"Wolfsburger.... Do you recall seeing this in the MSDS or other literature? if you have it handy, perhaps you could post a link"




_Modified by just4fun at 11:29 AM 2-20-2007_


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (andythai)*

Hi Andy,
Apart from assuring the seals get lubricated at least a 2-3 times a year, I think timing on the lubrication is a personal call. If you think the seals are looking dry, or they feel like they are no longer as suple as they should be, then they should be lubricated. The frequency will vary depending on weather, dust, how often you wash the car, etc.
I picked our Eos on Saturday, and I was lubricating the seals 20 minutes later. They were dry at time of delivery. I would suggest, based on all the information gathered here on the forum, that you lubricate the seals at your earliest convenience, unless the dealer has lubricated the seals pre-delivery. IMHO.
Kevin


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## andythai (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (just4fun)*

Kevin, thanks alot for that.We dont get alot of rain here,its just hot and dry so I think im gonna need a ton of the lubricant,thanks again Andy


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: How to solve (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_*PS I couldn't find the "Krytox" literature where I read this: I seem to recall Dupont recommends protecting against skin absorbtion when using Krytox. Just a heads up that you may want to consider using a vinyl, latex, or nitrile, glove when applying the lubricant. Just to be on the safe side.*
"Wolfsburger.... Do you recall seeing this in the MSDS or other literature? if you have it handy, perhaps you could post a link"


Everything I've seen seems to indicate Krytox is pretty safe to handle because its so stable and does not contain VOCs....its used in the food service industry and in cosmetics. Here's a quick Dupont link to the "Safety and Environmental FAQ". I'll look for my MSDS sheets from GM and VW...they have some safety and health info too.
http://www.dupont.com/lubrican...afety
There's related info in the 1st paragraph of the disposal section.
http://www.dupont.com/lubrican....html



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 3:35 PM 2-20-2007_


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## trampdog (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael, just to say what an *excellent write up*. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Well done and thank you.
I have passed your info and pics on to my dealer.
I just wanted to point out that my UK manual, book 3.2, pages 24 to 30 relates to cleaning and care etc, but there is no reference to the Krytox or VW lubricant G052172.A1 etc.
But on page 25 it says
"if it is cold, dry the rubber seals and the surfaces they touch with a cloth to prevent them from freezing. Treat the rubber seals with a silicon spray-this does not apply, however, to the seals on the CSC roof"
Page 26 says
"Please do not use any silicon-based rubber care products or cleaners which contain acids on the seals of the CSC roof, such as industrial dust cleaners or insect removal products."
Page 29 says
If rubber seals are looked after, they will not freeze so quickly.
Regularly apply a specialist care product to the rubber seals
It does not advise what to use.
Please do not get me wrong, I am not complaining, I am just pointing out the difference in the UK manuals.
But I have ordered my krytox for future use.
paul..


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

When I bought my Jetta, I received a complimentary car wash kit complete with leather protectant. Given this, I am surprised VW does not provide some starter bottles with the EOS purchase. I think this would save them plenty in service department costs not to mention improve the PR on this as a potential issue.
In addition, my sales person painstakingly covered the details on trivial items such as door locks and seat adjustment and finished up with asking me to take a survey of items covered on delivery. Seems your dealership has come upon an ideal addition to the delivery process and VW would be wise to include this in it's delivery survey.
What better answer could a sales person give to a customer asking about leak issues than 
"Yes we understand it was an initial concern and we have addressed it by offering complimentary lubricant which we will show you exactly how and where to apply it on delivery of your new EOS. So what color were you interested in?"



_Modified by jgermuga at 3:31 PM 2-20-2007_


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)*

*original quote from kghia:*
If the car was not brand new, I would expect to have to do more maintanance, but I think that there is a reasonable expectation that the car will work if you have given it all of the proscribed maint.
William,
Just wanted to respond to your post in the other thread.
I just wanted you to know, if I understand your post correctly, that I agree with you in principal. I just didn't become quite so frustrated with the situation as you seem to have.
You will see in my post above, my hopes are that VW will respond to all the recent information acquired and make some minor changes to how they approach seal maintenance on the Eos. Specifically, lubrication of the seals at pre-delivery, include seal maintenance as part of the routine maintenance schedule at appropriate intervals, and provide additional, concise, information on seal maintenance in the owners manual.
I think the roof seal discussion personifies exactly what these forums should be striving to acheive: improving the overall enjoyment and satisfaction of vehicle ownership.
This thread started with Wolfsburger bringing seal maintenance to the forefront of our awareness, other members joined in, either by reporting their experiences (good or bad) or by participating in researching products and solutions. Micheal was ever present, trying to keep our discussion sane and on track. And now he has used his solid relationship with his dealer, *to our advantage*, by participating in identifying, trouble shooting, and repairing, a leak concern in the presence of a certified dealership representative.
If VW monitors this forum, as Micheal suggests. That, in conjunction with a dealership now in a position to confirm the importance of seal maintenance, VW may involk the changes we suggest to the maintenance schedule.
Mitigating this problem by including seal maintenance as part of the routine service schedule will go a long way to promote the reputation of the Eos in the worldwide automotive community. 
This will also help protect the thousands of Eos drivers, that don't participate here, that are possibly driving around blissfully unaware of potential seal problems.
I understand you find this frustrating, and I'm not knocking your frustration, I just viewed it a bit differently. I was happy to be aware of the problem upfront, and, that I had some idea how to protect our Eos against experiencing the difficulty. 
I am also very pleased with the assistance provided by the vwvortex Eos community, and to know we appear to be on the brink of confirming a solution to a bothersome problem.
Thank you to everyone on the forum for providing such a valuable resource.
Kevin


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (Timokreon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darien* »_The pinches on the moonroof, after you applied Krytox, were you guys able deformed the pinches back to normal stage? In another words, no more pinches?

Hi Darien:
Yes, for sure, we were able to get the those seals that run lengthwise along either side of the glass roof panel right back to normal after poking, lubricating, and massaging them. In fact, most of us guessed that the point of water *entry *into the car was right at those pinches (deformations), because the seal was no longer patent to the side of the glass panel.
When we (the techs and I) first started working on those pinches, we were trying to dig the pinched part of the seal up out of the groove so that it would 'come back to normal' - see photo below. Then, someone suggested that we open the sunroof panel only - in other words, slide the glass roof back - and that would allow the deformed part to spring back to normal on its own. So, we did this, and it was much easier.
*NB:* We also had to put a very thin film of lubricant on the outboard edge of the glass sunroof panel, where it abuts to the seal, to prevent the sunroof panel from pushing the seal back down into a deformed position. We applied only a very thin film to the vertical outboard edges of the sunroof panel - literally, we just took our fingers, which already had lubricant on them, and rubbed them on the side of the glass panel, at the point where the panel "chomps down" into the seal. Nothing more than that.

_Quote, originally posted by *ialonso* »_...I can move the seal with my hand, but after many krytox coats on the sun roof seal, the seal still gives on the sunroof, like the one on your picture...

I know what you mean. Later the same day, I visited a different VW dealer while on my way to Chicago, and I saw a brand new Eos in the showroom, in perfect condition, but with pinched side seals on the sunroof.
Again, here is the trick:
*1)* Open sunroof panel.
*2)* Apply lubricant to seals that run alongside either side of the sunroof. After about 5 minutes of massaging, they will absorb the lubricant and spring right back to their original shape.
*3)* With your fingertip, apply the thinnest possible film of lubricant to the vertical sides (only) of the sunroof panel, from front to back, where the panel "chomps" down into the two roof seals that you just finished lubricating. This very thin layer of lubricant on the vertical outboard edges of the sunroof panel will prevent the sunroof panel from pulling the seals downwards when it drops into the closed position.


_Quote, originally posted by *Timokreon* »_...confirms my suspicions that many of the "problems" persons have been stating, of water leaks and rattles, results directly from not maintaining the seals.

I agree 100%, and based on my experience, I strongly recommend that if there are any kind of roof leaks or rattles, the very first actions should be 'non-invasive' - in other words, cleaning and lubrication. Do your best to avoid any kind of disassembly or physical adjustments until you have exhausted every possible cleaning and lubrication alternative. I mean, heck, it's like medicine for humans - you want to avoid surgery at all costs if there is any other possible way to solve a problem. Surgery causes too many other (iatrogenic) problems.

_Quote, originally posted by *Timokreon...* »_do you think it all possible you would be able to contact the head honchos in VW, give them your writeup, and PERHAPS VW would send this out to all dealerships as a TB, or maybe just a very important item that NEEDS to be done to EVERY EOS?

After participating in this problem solving exercise at my VW dealer on Thursday of last week, I had lunch with a friend of mine who is an engineer at VW in Auburn Hills on Friday. He was part of the team that looked after tech support for the Eos launch, and he has been to Portugal to visit the assembly plant. I asked him if he would (informally, off the record) proofread my post. So, it's fair to assume VW of America has seen this post.
It is in VW of America's best interest to promulgate suggestions, tech tips, technical bulletins, etc. that result in the happiest possible customers at the lowest possible costs. So, I am sure they will eventually take some action of some kind. Our experience in the Phaeton forum with similar troubleshooting efforts has been that VW watches what we, the enthusiasts, do, and if they see a good idea, they pick up on it. They may not be the fastest-reacting company on the planet, not what you might call "the first dog off the porch", but as I have said many times before, they are an honest company. Jeepers, it is in their economic best interest to promulgate this kind of information, if in fact it is the best solution to the problem. We don't yet know if it is the best solution - it is the best we (as an owner group) have come up with yet, but I will need to visit the factory in Portugal this spring to get a definitive answer about whether it is the best action to take or not.
Michael
*Resolving the 'deformed seal' problem.*
_It is much easier to do it the 'easy way' (not shown) than the 'hard way' (shown below)_



_Modified by PanEuropean at 10:26 PM 7-8-2007_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (ehdg eos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ehdg eos* »_Thank you for the very informative post. Couple questions how often do they think the lubricant needs to be reapplied?

Until we build experience that teaches us how long the lubricant remains effective, I think this is one of those tasks that will need to be done "on condition" - in other words, when needed.
There are just too many variables from owner to owner to allow us to speculate on a fixed service interval. Someone who keeps their car indoors and washes it by hand might only need to do this once per year, if even that. Someone who parks outside (in sunlight and wind) and washes the car frequently at automatic car washes that use stronger chemicals for detergents might have to do it once every three months.
It's a bit like brake pads. I have 38,000 miles on my Phaeton and my original front brakes pads and discs have not even reached the half-way point of wear. Friends of mine with the identical car have done their first brake job at 25,000 miles. It's entirely dependent on the environment that the car is used in.
Another comparison would be rain repellent on aircraft windshields. If the plane flies around in a moist environment (e.g. Central Congo, or Asia during the monsoon season), the rain repellent lasts forever - at least 6 months. If the plane flies around in a desert area (e.g. Sahara) for 10 days, there won't be a trace of rain repellent left before even two weeks have elapsed.

_Quote, originally posted by *ehdg eos* »_Second do you think most dealers can be talked into applying this before we take delivery of these cars when new?

Well, personally, I think it is clearly in the best interest of the dealer to apply the lubricant to the car on the day of delivery. It will increase customer satisfaction, and greatly decrease warranty costs caused by the owner bringing the car back. It sure didn't take too long for the service staff at my dealership to decide that they were going to do this to every Eos sold on the day of delivery - I mean, the benefits are self-evident.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_...Hopefully VW corporate will recognize this important maintenance procedure and encourage their worldwide dealer network to perform this task as part of every pre-delivery inspection for the Eos. (as per my previous post, my Eos was delivered with dry seals)

A reasonable observation, but keep in mind that we have to allow this rather large company a certain amount of time to react. After all, we (as enthusiasts) didn't get this figured out until last week. Plus, although we believe that we are correct in our findings, our work has still not been reviewed by the staff at the assembly plant in Portugal, and they are the real experts. In the Phaeton forum, whenever we (owners) think we have figured out a better way to do things, or discovered a fix for a problem, we submit it to the assembly plant in Dresden for their professional review and criticism. We don't get too excited until we get word back from the assembly plant either approving our discovery, or telling us to go back to the drawing board. We here in the Eos forum do not (yet!) have that kind of relationship and the necessary contacts with the assembly plant in Portugal.

_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_...Correct the statement *"The Rear Window Element Must Not Lift Up!" *in the section explaining how to access the sunroof seals for lubrication. It is necessary for the rear window element to lift up in order to access the "middle rear roof seal".

I'm going to guess that the warning about the back part not lifting up is just a safety warning put in by the American lawyers, and has nothing at all to do with application of lubricant. But, we have to keep an open mind here - God forbid that we discover in a week or so that the rear seal (the one that runs side to side) is not supposed to be lubricated...









_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_...This last point is more a suggestion that may help avoid incorrect seal maintenance. In booklet 3.2, Chapter "Care of Vehicle Exterior", Washing by Hand, the owners manual recommends spraying rubber seals with *silicone* spray to help keep them pliable. If you read carefully it does state "do *not* spray the CSC roof seals". 

Agreed, good point. The Eos has two very different types of seals. There are the seals on the roof, which have a rough (cat's tongue) texture when you feel them, and the seals on the doors (below the bodyline of the car when the roof is retracted) that are conventional and have a smooth surface. My guess (emphasis: *Guess*) is that you could probably use silicone on the conventional seals, in other words, the ones below the beltline of the car. But, for sake of clarity and to avoid any risk of someone confusing things, it would probably be best to use the special lubricant (Krytox) on everything, if in fact Krytox is suitable for use on conventional seals.
None of us at my VW dealer knew the answer to this, so, we just left the conventional door and trunk seals alone. There was no complaint made about their performance, and the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is well worth keeping in mind.

_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_...To help prevent accidental application of silicone based products, VW may want to consider dropping the reference to Silicone under "Washing by Hand" and simply recommend G 052 172 A1 _for all rubber seals_.

I'm with you 100% on this one, but again, we need to determine if G 052 172 A1 (Krytox) is suitable for use on conventional door and trunk lid seals.

_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_...I seem to recall DuPont recommends protecting against skin absorption when using Krytox.

Yeah, probably. But then again, the legal situation in the USA today is so bad that Avon is now putting warnings against skin absorption on their bottles of hand and face cream.







I looked at the packaging material for Switzerland that came on the bottle - it didn't have any warnings on it - so, I figured, what the heck, why worry. I suppose that if I had a full time job lubricating Eos roofs I might be a little more cautious, but heck, 20 minutes exposure ain't gonna kill me. By the way, did anyone see where I left my bottle of MEK? I've gotta wipe up a bit of Krytox that dripped on the ground...


----------



## SeaTreg (Dec 27, 2004)

*Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)*

Phenomenal write up Michael!!! This is information every Eos owner needs to know. Your analysis, investigation, and solution presented could not be any easier to follow, and the pictures remove any doubt as to what you did. Kudos to you! You really went the extra mile on this one







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## EOSmage (Feb 9, 2007)

*Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)*

Amazing. That is the word for this article, however, the time you put into documenting a process for a vehicle you don't yet have is stunning.
I bought myself an 8oz tube of the krytox 205 based on the cost per ounce, and the research done by members of this forum. I've had it for a couple of weeks, but was waiting to apply the stuff to my car because I wasn't totally sure where or how to do it. In honesty, I was going to ask my dealer to show me what needs to be done.
I'm going to try tonight, thanks to the detailed coverage and photos given by Michael. I assume that everyone is still in agreement that the 205 product will still work just as well... I chose it because of the "potential" for the liquid to drip, and I hate drips.








Anyway, I felt it was important to say thanks to everyone who are helping to increase my EOS knowledge, and thereby making my enjoyment of the car much greater than I thought possible.
SIDE NOTE: Michael, I host a server that runs a couple of forums-- granted, they have a smaller "membership"-- and know that being a moderator can be a thankless and often frustrating position, especially when it is a voluntary thing. With that in mind, thank you again for your efforts here, I'm impressed with the clean and efficient topics. Your efforts are noticed and appreciated.
--Jonathan


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## EurovanTastic (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)*

Great write up michael, Appreciate the explanation to everyone and i hope this clears up the HOW-TO side of things http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)*

fantastic!
I _especially_ love the explanations of the easier way to do things *(after having done it the hard way, and then said "Eureka!"*)








I can relate to that, so I'm glad you saved me the step. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








I guess I have got to figure out the best place to buy liquid Krytox in a jug, and some of those bottles with tiny-tipped applicators. that WolfsburgerMitFries mentioned.
William
(are there no smiley's with tools in their hands? hmmm....







)


_Modified by kghia at 5:02 PM 2-20-2007_


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## EurovanTastic (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: How to solve (kghia)*

Belive me, the best way is the krytox in a small bottle, application is easier and i'm not sure on the expiry


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: How to solve (kghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kghia* »_
I guess I have got to figure out the best place to buy liquid Krytox in a jug, and some of those bottles with tiny-tipped applicators. that WolfsburgerMitFries mentioned.


Actually I've found a much better source for precision liquid dispensing equipment. Its called Jensen Global.
http://jensenglobal.com/
If you go with luer needles, get the largest available (14 gauge).
http://jensenglobal.com/cgi-bi....html








or maybe the next sizes smaller (15 or 16 gauge). A 1 inch length is adequate, 1.5 inch is good too. The longer the needle, the more resistance to flow so stay away from the 3 inch for general purpose use. 100 series Krytox oil such as GPL-105 is too thick to easily flow through anything smaller than 16 gauge.
There's also tapered Luer tips, Which I prefer so you don't scratch the paint if you accidentally drop the bottle.
http://jensenglobal.com/cgi-bi....html








They attach to luer lock caps such as this. Or syringes, if you find that easier.












_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 2:42 PM 3-10-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (kghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kghia* »_I guess I have got to figure out the best place to buy liquid Krytox in a jug, and some of those bottles with tiny-tipped applicators that WolfsburgerMitFries mentioned...

William:
You are going to have to take out a second mortgage on your house if you are planning to buy the special lubricant (Krytox) in a "jug". DuPont Corporation has the patent on Krytox sealed up nice and tight, and just like the big pharmaceutical companies, they are charging a pretty penny for the stuff.
So far as dispensing it is concerned - if you buy the stuff that VW recommends (the part number given in the owner manual, which is *G 052 172 A1*, it comes in a very cleverly designed little bottle. You just cut the tip off the end of the nozzle at the first mark, and voila, you now have the perfect size hole for dispensing a thin, controlled stream of the liquid. When you are finished, you put the attached cap back over the top, and that seals it up.
Because one bottle is more than enough to do two complete Eos vehicles, my guess is that there is really no need to buy the stuff in bulk. I cannot imagine anyone needing more than one bottle per year, maximum.
Michael
*Cut the top of the nozzle with a sharp knife here*

*You then get a perfect-size line of the fluid when you tip the bottle*

*And the bottle comes with an attached cap*



_Modified by PanEuropean at 10:28 PM 7-8-2007_


----------



## scottjay99 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)*

Incredibly valuable write up. I'm going to forward it to my Eos dealer before my first service (car delivered 12/8/06) next week. I have already confirmed the have the lubricant in stock, but I want to make sure they understand how to apply it correctly (or I will).


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)*

Thanks for the kind comment, Scott. I think everyone at my VW dealership had quite a bit of fun solving this problem (especially the initial water test, which soaked the dealer principal), and I am very grateful to my dealer for inviting me up to watch and document the whole process.
A few of the pictures that I took last Thursday did not turn out well, so I could not include them in the original post. I went back to the dealer today, but the customer had picked up his Eos and was out driving it. Fortunately, there was another Eos in the showroom I could use for photos, so, here are a few "Tips and Tricks from the School of Hard Knocks" to help others get the best possible results in the future.
Michael
*Some additional elaboration...*









_Modified by PanEuropean at 10:31 PM 7-8-2007_


----------



## pjgraham86 (Aug 10, 2006)

Fantastic write up from Michael - even I couldn't fail to get it right such was the clarity of the descriptions !!
Quick reminder for UK owners -Krytox liquid and grease is available from gbrtech.co.uk - around £16 each.
Peter


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (EurovanTastic)*

Matt,
Just for information purposes.
I was quoted $113.00 cdn at the VW dealership for the 30ml bottle. The parts person did offer a reasonable discount.
However, you can purchase the liquid product in a .5 kg jug (approx. 240 - 300ml) direct from the Canadian Dupont Distributor for about 1/4 the price, per 30ml.
The contact information can be found on this thread. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2985944
Realistically, if the seals only require lubricating once or twice a year, then the product cost from the VW dealer is actually insignificant. However if you want to lower the overall cost, you can consider the larger quantity at a significant long term savings.
I don't recall seeing any documentation on the shelf life of this product, but I'm certain if it is stored in a sealed container to protect against contamination, it will last pretty much forever.
Kevin











_Modified by just4fun at 11:40 AM 2-21-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (just4fun)*

Hi Kevin:
DuPont also suggests that the Krytox lubricating products have a more or less indefinite shelf life - here is a link to their website: DuPont Krytox® Oils and Greases.
I strongly recommend that Eos owners use the OIL, not a grease. If I had to buy lubricant for my own Eos, I would (at this moment in time) buy the little bottle of Volkswagen supplied lubricant - the *G 052 172 A1* stuff - only because we all know without any doubt at all that that is the exact correct stuff to use. If you go browsing through the DuPont Krytox® website, you will see that 'Krytox®' is a brand name that is used for a whole family of fluorinated ether based lubricants (oils and greases), not a name for a specific viscosity of lubricant for Eos roof seals. In fact, if you look at the DuPont detail page, you can see that there is a very wide range of viscosities available.
What we want to do, as owners, is maintain that very expensive and very sophisticated roof *exactly *the way VW suggests. Until we can find out the precise specification for the *G 052 172 A1* lubricant - what its viscosity is, what grade it is, what other additives it may or may not have in it - I think we should stick to the safest path, which is to buy the little bottle from VW.
I'm very much in favour of saving money wherever possible, and I am certainly not trying to 'plug' the VW product. However, at this moment in time, and in this particular case, I think we should take the safest route and use only what we KNOW works. By the time we all use up our initial bottle of lubricant, we will probably have found out what the exact specs for the VW *G 052 172 A1* lubricant are, and probably identified a less expensive way of sourcing the exact same thing.
One thing that I think it is important to stress - we want to use an OIL, not a GREASE. Greases have thickeners added to prevent them from being slung off of moving parts. The roof seals are not moving parts, and we want a lubricant that is 'oily' by nature so that it runs into all the crevices and can be easily absorbed by the seals.
Michael


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_ Until we can find out the precise specification for the *G 052 172 A1* lubricant - what its viscosity is, what grade it is, what other additives it may or may not have in it - I think we should stick to the safest path, which is to buy the little bottle from VW.
Michael

We can rule out any additives, when I pulled the MSDS Sheet, it 100% Krytox, no question about it. I'll try to re-do the picture later because it just cuts off skin contact information.











_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 7:52 PM 2-21-2007_


----------



## hulahoops (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*

I would like to add my thanks to you too Michael. 
After my experience I wish I had bought the G 052 172 A1 as you recommend, instead of the GPL205 grease. I think I will try to remove as much of the grease as I can from the seals as it is making a bit of a mess of the paintwork and glass. It doesn't just wipe off...I spent a long time at the weekend removing the sticky smudges. My UK VW dealer didn't list the A1 liquid when I enquired mid-Jan, only the A2 spray or A3 paste. Has anyone managed to get hold of the A1 liquid in the UK?
Simon


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_ If I had to buy lubricant for my own Eos, I would (at this moment in time) buy the little bottle of Volkswagen supplied lubricant - the *G 052 172 A1* stuff - only because we all know without any doubt at all that that is the exact correct stuff to use. 

Micheal,
I was about to go off on a detailed tangent about how certain I was we have already determined exactly what G 052 172 A1 is when it hit me like an ice pick in the forehead.
This is very similar to the warranty issues discussed in length with regard to motor oils, you have to be sure you are using a product that meets VW specifications to conform to warranty requirements.
I am confident Wolfsburger's research is sound, however, in the interests of protecting the warranty on the roof seals, I agree with you; until such time the composition is 100% confirmed, the recommendation is to use the VW product # G 052 172 A1.
You have my 100% support with regard to your recommendation.
Kevin


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_... it is 100% Krytox, no question about it.

Hi Wolfsburger:
I hear what you are saying, but I'm not entirely sure that you are hearing what I am saying.
If you describe a product as '100% Krytox®', that's a bit like saying it is '100% Seagrams', or '100% Nestlé', or '100% IBM'. Krytox® is not a name of a specific product (for example, like Canadian Club whisky, Nescafe instant coffee, or ThinkPad notebook computers, all _specific products_ made by the previously mentioned companies), it is a trademark that is used to describe a *whole range* of fluorinated ether based oils, greases, and synthetic lubricants. This is why I was careful to use the phrase 'special lubricant' in my post, rather than referring to the stuff as 'Krytox®'.
I'm not a chemist, so I can't speak with any knowledge about the differences between all the different Krytox® oils, greases, and synthetic lubricants, however, so far as the Eos is concerned, we want to be absolutely certain that we are getting the exact correct viscosity of the product that has been formulated with the exact correct dispersion and volatility characteristics that best suit lubrication of the roof seals. This is what I was getting at when I suggested that until we know precisely what the specification is of the product that comes in the little bottle from VW (VW's part number *G 052 172 A1*), we just buy that bottle and play it safe.
I am pretty sure that within a few months - certainly by the end of the summer, anyway - we will have determined the exact specs for the particular Krytox® product that comes in the bottle from VW. Until then, I'm suggesting that we not take the risk of making a mistake and applying the wrong product.
Michael
*Which Krytox®? All of the following are 100% Krytox®*

*Here's a partial screenshot of the DuPont Krytox MSDS listing*



_Modified by PanEuropean at 11:46 PM 7-8-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (hulahoops)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hulahoops* »_My UK VW dealer didn't list the A1 liquid when I enquired mid-Jan, only the A2 spray or A3 paste. Has anyone managed to get hold of the A1 liquid in the UK?

Hi Simon:
If your owner manual contains a reference to the G 052 172 part number with the A1 suffix (as the North American owner manuals do), I suggest you show it to your VW parts specialist and ask him or her to get you that exact product. If that exact product is not listed in the VW UK parts catalog, your parts specialist can get it by placing what is known as a 'red' order. I encountered a similar problem here in North America last month getting a replacement wheel well liner for a W12 powered Phaeton - the W12 liner has a vent in it and a part number suffix 'R', the North American ETKA catalog only showed a liner without a vent and a part number suffix of 'Q'. After talking with one of our 'forum friends' at VW of America, I found out you can order anything you want from anywhere in the world if you place what is called a 'red' order. All you need to do this is a good reason - and listing of a specific lubricant in the owner manual is a pretty good reason.
By the way - you might want to suggest to your parts specialist that he or she launch the ETKA parts catalog, but instead of selecting "Eos" and proceeding in the normal way to search for an Eos part, instead go to the menu button in the upper right, select 'Special Catalogs', then select 'Chemical Materials', then when the new page pops up, select 'Servicing Materials', and simply scroll down the list until G 052 172 A1 appears - the list is in numerical order. See the screen-shot below.
Michael
*VW Parts Catalog Screenshot*



_Modified by PanEuropean at 11:47 PM 7-8-2007_


----------



## darien (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
Yes, for sure, we were able to get the those seals that run lengthwise along either side of the glass roof panel right back to normal after poking, lubricating, and massaging them. In fact, most of us guessed that the point of water *entry *into the car was right at those pinches (deformations), because the seal was no longer patent to the side of the glass panel.

Hi Michael:
Thanks. I finally got one of the pinches formed back to normal. Hooray!! That pinch was at the center of the left side moonroof seal. However, the right side's seal is still deformed. It looks exactly like that picture you shown. It's deformed at the end part of the moonroof's seal. Much more deformed than the left side.
I applied and massaged the right side (pinch) again this afternoon and simply let the roof down overnight so that the seals were able to fully absorb the lubricant.
Now, how many attempts did you guys try to get that "stubborn" pinch to bounce back to normal? My goal is to at least get those pinches back up to normal. Of course, I haven't try hosing any water on my car, but I am also suspecting that the moonroofs' pinches were the point of water into the car. Any more advice you can provide me? Thanks in advance!










_Modified by darien at 10:12 PM 2-21-2007_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (darien)*

Hi Darien:
We found it quite easy to get the 'pinched' (deformed) areas of the seals at the side of the glass panel back to normal, even though we did most of the work the hard way - with the glass panel in the closed position, using our fingers (covered with special lubricant) to dig the seal up and move it back to its normal position - as shown in the photo below.
Honestly, I don't think it took us more than 5 minutes total time to fix the seal deformations on each side of the vehicle. The seals popped back up into thier original (desired) shape without any difficulty.
What we did notice - which is worth remarking about - is that after we had dug the seals out of their pinched position, when we then opened and closed the glass sunroof panel, the friction from the side of the glass panel moving downwards to its flush position then squashed the seals back to their original (deformed) position. This didn't impress any of us, so, we opened the glass panel again, rubbed a tiny bit of the special lubricant on the side of the glass panel, and then closed it. When it closed the second time, it didn't disturb the side seals at all, everything worked perfectly.
It might, perhaps, be better to dig out the pinched (deformed) portions of the side seals whilst the glass sunroof panel is closed, simply because the presence of the closed sunroof panel forms kind of a 'mould' to assist in coaxing the rubber seal to return to its original shape. This is just speculation on my part.
Did you find that when you lubricated the deformed side seal (presumably you did this with the glass roof panel open) that the seal retained its original deformed shape? If so, then maybe it might be best to lubricate deformed seals with the glass sunroof panel open - simply because this is the easiest way to get access to all portions of the seal - then to run a greasy fingertip along the sides of the glass roof panel, close the glass roof panel, then dig out any deformations that may remain with your fingertip and then leave the glass roof closed for a while, so that the seal is forced to re-learn the desired shape. Again, just a guess, just speculation.
I really need to go buy an Eos so I have one I can refer to myself...








Michael
*The 'hard way' - maybe this might actually be 'the most efficient way', so far as deformations are concerned?*


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_

I hear what you are saying, but I'm not entirely sure that you are hearing what I am saying.


There's a lot of topics to cover...I'm not going to get them all, it would make for a post that was too large at one time.
There have been a lot very good points in this entire seal maintenance conversation, and I'm sure many people are following with this topic with great interest, so I'm going to start off with the observation that it would be in everyones best interest to accelerate the process of finding out out exactly what grade of Krytox is in the G 052 172 A1 bottle (for those who still need convincing)...however since the MSDS sheet does not reference an exact DuPont number, it may not be possible to produce a "holy grail" document concretely linking G 052 172 A1 to a specific viscosity (for example) GPL-105. So everyone interested in this topic is going to have to eventually ask themselves how much convincing they individually need.
I am still very passionate about providing information about purchasing from an alternate source, simply because of the enormous cost difference. Competition keeps people honest. A ½ KG jug of liquid Krytox is $155, which is more than 8X the quantity of Krytox in Volkswagens G 052 175 A1 which costs $95. 
Based on use of one 30Ml bottle per year, you can currently buy an 8+ year supply for $155 if you can do without the Volkswagen bottle, or you'll pay $760 for the VW re-label. That's a $605 difference (actually slightly more), and a no brainer to me. You'll come out ahead in the middle of the 2nd year. 
Now I do understand there's many different varieties of Krytox (71 as you pointed out) but come on, its obvious in the comprehensive list that there's greases (any of the 200 series part numbers), vacuum pump oils, food service numbers, Japan market products...the bulk of those you can instantly ignore, so lets not drag a red herring through the issue and over complicate it. 
Krytox oils are 100 series, and "GPL" is for General Propose Lubricants which are the auto industry standard for control of squeaks and rattles (S&R). I keep pointing to this automotive industry specific DuPont news letter which everyone interested should read very carefully because it gives the exact part numbers for the purposes we (and the auto industry in general) are interested in.
http://www2.dupont.com/Lubrica...2.pdf
It examines the industry standard GPL-105 to thinner viscosity variants GPL-104 and GPL-103, and it appears that DuPont, based on extensive cycle tests, seems to think that there is cause to inform the auto industry that thinner variants might be a better idea because they appear to offer a lower coefficient of friction, particularly as time increases. I'm going to have to hold off on elaborate discussions concerning Krytox viscosity in this post, its a lot and would get far too wordy and off track.
There's always someone who wants to discuss warranty related issues, so I'll quickly touch on that. It appears that there's no recommended Krytox application interval, nor does the owners manual say the Krytox treatments are mandatory. So I think we can relax about what is in reality a liability conversation.
Michael, I understand you are very passionate about Volkswagens, you have an outstanding relationship with your dealer, you have contacts within the corporate structure of VW, you're a moderator on several forums...after all that, you're a strict company man. It would be disingenuous to think that those factors are not skewing your preference and recommendation exclusively toward the VW labeled bottle. I also understand that there's going to be people who will not rest unless they have the exact VW bottle that is pointed to in the owners manual. In those cases, you will be the people buying your Krytox at the VW parts counter.
In my case, I'm completely confident that my Krytox from a 3rd party vendor that costs a little over $19 an ounce is going to offer the exact same performance characteristics as your Krytox for $95 an ounce. 
The reason I re-posted the MSDS picture up several posts above is to clearly show that the contents of the VW bottle is NOT some proprietary mixture of Krytox plus mystery additives for Volkswagens exclusive use on retractable hardtops...VW part number G 052 175 A1 existed long before the Eos, and its simply Krytox in oil form. Its NOT an Eos specific chemical, and I think its important to remember that.
So now we have both approaches up for people to examine and they can pick what they feel comfortable with.




_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 1:25 PM 2-24-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_Michael, I understand you are very passionate about Volkswagens, you have an outstanding relationship with your dealer, you have contacts within the corporate structure of VW, you're a moderator on several forums...after all that, you're a strict company man. It would be disingenuous to think that those factors are not skewing your preference and recommendation exclusively toward the VW labeled bottle.

Hi Wolfsburger:
You are correct with your assessment above. I'm very much an OEM person, in the sense that I only make modifications that are strictly OEM, and I generally follow the VW service recommendations pretty carefully. So, yes, in that sense, I am 'a strict company man'. However, I just want to make sure that you appreciate that I am not recommending that folks use the VW special lubricant just to put cash in VW's till... I'm only recommending it because we are not yet absolutely, positively certain what the specification for an *exact *replacement of the VW product is.
What I am going to do is write a letter to Volkswagen of America today, and ask if there is anything they can possibly do to lower the price of the G 052 172 A1 special lubricant. After all, it is in their best interest to get as many people as possible (dealers and owners) using that lubricant. We have a car that has won all sorts of awards, a car that most people acknowledge that it is a far superior car than similar competitive offerings, but VW is getting pilloried over roof leaks, squeaks, callbacks, even buybacks because the required lubricant is kind of expensive.
So, let's work on it from both ends - you try to find out what the DuPont part number is for the exact same stuff, and I will try to get VW to take a second look at the price they are charging for the lubricant that is distributed through the VW dealer network.
Michael


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: How to solve (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Which Dupont product exactly is the same as the VW product; GPL 105? 
I just received the grease GPL 205, It sounds like this is not absorbed as well as the oil.

Michael, thank you for the write up. I don't have the manual in front of me. Are there any seal that should not be lubricated?
Paul


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## theothereos (Oct 9, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*

Wolfsburger & Michael,
Thanks to both of you for the amazing wealth information you both bring to this forum. Your posts are well done, informative and valued. 
-dawn
P.S. As an EOS owner who had a leak which was resolved - I have to toss a vote in for the Krytox gel.


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## EOSmage (Feb 9, 2007)

I already have a tube of the 205 grease. While I will probably not be using it on the EOS-- as was originally planned-- I'm not regretting the purchase. It has a plethora of other uses around the house that will make it a valuable member of the "toolbox".
As for the EOS roof seals, to be safe, I've got my local VW parts guy bringing in a bottle of the VW branded stuff. This will be a temporary "keep the roof working properly" solution until we find out if VW will flex on the price, or we have the Krytox part number that matches the VW one.
Whatever the outcome, I still know more about the EOS and various lubricants than before I started reading the forums-- and in my mind, that's what these forums are all about!
Thanks to everyone.
--Jon


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Wolfsburger,
The MSDS you posted, is that from VW or Dupont.
Kevin


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: How to solve (just4fun)*

The VW MSDS sheets are 7 pages per part number. The key human hazard appears to be that liquid Krytox can be an eye irritant. Its definitely not a carcinogen, there's 2 testing bodies referenced at the bottom.








Section 2 is continued onto the next page with references to OSHA and Prop 65. My apologies for the smallish photo sizes, I'm trying to keep from throwing the width of this thread out of whack.








I had to splice 2 pages for section 8. The first sentence is useful for anyone wondering about being surrounded be Krytox all the time they are in the car.








You can compare that to how the GM MSDS sheet reads.











_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 10:44 PM 2-22-2007_


----------



## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re:*

I just wanted to add this bit of info. For all those living in an area where there may be be multiple VW dealers, you might want to call them as they may not all be selling at the same price. I called 5 dealers today and got prices ranging from $71 to $102 for G 052 172 A1. I know some of you may still want the DuPont product and that is ok. But for those who don't, you may not have to pay the higher OEM prices if you shop around.


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Re: (cb391)*

I just called VW my dealer, they priced G 052 172 A1 at $71.07
Here's the fun part. Upon looking up the part number I gave, and seeing the price, the counterman said, "does that come in a bucket?" I had a very satisfying laugh with myself, then I said "no...its 1 ounce". To which he replied "ouch". Ouch indeed.









That will be $80,000 sir.



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 11:44 PM 2-22-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

I kind of suspect that if we can get the various teams at VW of America talking to each other - in other words, get the support engineers and the marketing people to speak to the parts distribution people and tell them that it would be in everyone's best interest to drop the price of this G 052 172 A1 lubricant to the lowest possible level - then parts will drop the price.
My guess (as always, just a guess) is that there is a hard-working, well-intentioned employee somewhere in the parts distribution section of VW who originally looked at this lubricant and thought _"Well, we might as well price that so that there is a reasonable markup on it - after all, we lost $1 billion in North America last year"_, but that same hard-working, well-intentioned employee is not aware that it would save VW tens of thousands of dollars if the lubricant was inexpensive enough that dealers and owners could buy it without a second thought and use it whenever they need it.
I bet that everyone who has ever worked for a large company in the past (or presently) can recognize this exact scenario from their own personal experience...







...the right hand often doesn't know what the left is doing in big organizations.
Michael


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Interestingly, my dealership has a location in the city in which I live, and in the city in which I work, and *they are selling for different prices*
The dealership in Winston Salem is selling for MSRP = $71.+
The dealership in Greensboro is selling for $78.18, and admitted there was a markup over MSRP when I asked.















Truly shopping around can make a difference!
William


----------



## EurovanTastic (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Now, this only my opinion, but i think a very smart move by the dealer on the sales level would be to supply the customer with 1 bottle of the vw product or even get VW of america to supply it with the car. Even a quick explanation by the sales consultant about application would be useful as well. 

Mabye it's too much to hope that VW will include a small insert in the owners manual about application.

I would love to mention it to them and see what comes of it

The EOS is a beautiful car and well, not the cheapest, supplying this to the customer would be a smart move on behalf of VW....but what do i know?..









My dealer sells the stuff for $93.00 CN, if anyone's interested



_Modified by EurovanTastic at 4:59 PM 2-22-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Re: (EurovanTastic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EurovanTastic* »_ Now, this only my opinion, but i think a very smart move by the dealer on the sales level would be to supply the customer with 1 bottle of the vw product...

Agreed. That is what my own VW dealer has decided to do - they are going to lubricate the Eos roof seals on the day of delivery to the customer (not the day that the PDI is done, but the day of delivery), and then give the customer the remainder of the bottle of special lubricant, along with providing instructions about how to use it.
The trick will be to get all the knowledge we have accumulated in this discussion disseminated out to all the other VW dealers. My guess is that most dealers will see that lubricating the roof seals on the day of delivery is self-serving - it will increase customer satisfaction and decrease callbacks and warranty claims. It's not too hard to come to a policy decision when you look at it that way.
Michael


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
Agreed. That is what my own VW dealer has decided to do - they are going to lubricate the Eos roof seals on the day of delivery to the customer (not the day that the PDI is done, but the day of delivery), and then give the customer the remainder of the bottle of special lubricant, along with providing instructions about how to use it.


That sounds wonderful, although they should also lubricate them when they receive them at the dealer, as both of the Eos's on my dealer's lot have dry, white-spotted seals worse than mine.
Having the top work its best when showing off to potential buyers also serves the dealers well.
(this esp. occurs to me given the talk about how old the Eos may already be before it is sold.)
Of course, for those lucky enough to have real custom-ordering, the Eos may be showing up just for a brief inspection before it is taken home.
William


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Re: (kghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kghia* »_...although they should also lubricate them when they receive them at the dealer...

I don't think that any of us have sufficient product knowledge to make that statement. Lubrication addresses squeak and leak issues, not operational issues.
Michael


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

several people have complained of leaks from the first day, and I believe that someone (grubbygirl?) said that there was water in a side pocket at the dealer's.
Leaking *IS* an operational issue-- the roof & seals are not operating propperly in the keep-out-water function. Seals operating quietly also earned the Eos an extra year in development.(the wind problem)
Doesn't it make sense to prevent the squeaks and leaks *BEFORE sales*, so that no (additional) customers find problems in the lot while considering purchase?
I tell you, if *I* were looking at a new $30k+ car and saw water inside, that would probably settle it right then, at least for that particular car, if not the entire model.
William
ps. I _did_ have a car dealer show me a Ghia with water in the pass. floor. He said "oh it rained last night and the window was cracked open"-- _and then did nothing!_ I wanted to clean it up myself! That was one of several reasons to not buy that Ghia, made me wonder what reasons I _didn't_ see.


----------



## lonerthx (Oct 5, 2006)

As a follow up to my earlier post, we had several hours of heavy rain yesterday and last night.
I now have no leaks.








FYI - I used the 205 grease which I bought in the 8oz tube. I did find it easy to apply and it did get easy absorbed into the seals, making them softer and more pliable.
But, and it's only a small matter, I believe the G 052 172 A1 product is the better solution and I will be switching to it for the visible seals at least.. I feel the 205 leaves to much of a greasy residue on the seals that will smear in places if you are not careful.


----------



## vweosdriver (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Re: (kghia)*

Got mine at $71 minus 10% because of my VWCA membership. Dealer gives 10% off parts, labor and accesories for members.


----------



## EurovanTastic (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: Re: (PanEuropean)*

excellent........i'm glad to hear they will be supplying it to customers!!


----------



## Higgs Boson (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: Re: (vweosdriver)*

I called my dealer's parts dept and ordered a bottle right after I read Michael's outstanding write-up. The guy quoted me $71 dollars and then said, "Woah, what is this?" I told him all about this forum and suggested they check it out. Then I said, "Can you help me out on the price seeing as I just bought the Eos not a month ago?" He gave me 10% off.
So, it never hurts to ask.


----------



## Timokreon (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (hulahoops)*

Good morning everyone








An update on pricing. I have found that  vw-auto-parts.com sells the VW labeled liquid krytox for $51.00. You just need to put in the VW part number, and away you go.








Looks like it might take 2 weeks or so to get the liquid, but, you're saving quite a bit of money. 
Enjoy all!










_Modified by Timokreon at 10:23 AM 2-24-2007_


----------



## PaulZooms (Dec 16, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (Timokreon)*

I could not find the oil on that site. A few pointers would be appreciated, Tim.


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (PaulZooms)*

Found this one for $53.50 plus shipping at $9-$12.
http://www.trademotion.com/par...13714
Kevin


----------



## Timokreon (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (just4fun)*

Yeah, it goes to trademotion.com after clicking on "vw parts". From there, put in the VW code for the liquid, the "g 052 172 a1", and it will come up.
They must have raised the price already... Mine was $51 and free shipping via usps.


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: How to solve (Timokreon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Timokreon* »_Yeah, it goes to trademotion.com after clicking on "vw parts". From there, put in the VW code for the liquid, the "g 052 172 a1", and it will come up.
They must have raised the price already... Mine was $51 and free shipping via usps.

That's a good point. With the magic of the computer age also comes adaptive price software. If an item starts selling rapidly (for example, because someone puts information or a link in an internet chat room) the pricing software at the vendor in question automatically adapts based on the increased demand and raises the price. Many retailers, both online and in real life have adaptive price software, so if you might want to be careful what you post on the internet. You can very easily kill the goose that laid the golden egg, so to speak.


_Modified by PanEuropean at 6:55 PM 2-24-2007_


----------



## Bster67 (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (Timokreon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Timokreon* »_Yeah, it goes to trademotion.com after clicking on "vw parts". From there, put in the VW code for the liquid, the "g 052 172 a1", and it will come up.
They must have raised the price already... Mine was $51 and free shipping via usps.

Have you received your lubricant from this site yet? I was considering ordering some but wanted to make sure it was an ok site/company to deal with. You never know what you are getting when buying things online...


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: How to solve (Bster67)*

Another quick update, based on material safety in handling concerns raised by Kevin in Canada. After reviewing all the DuPont newsletters for the auto industry, I've found their 4th newsletter gets into safety/handling concerns. Probably the most interesting quote is...
"It presents no danger from short-term skin exposure or from inhalation of decomposition products at high temperatures. And Krytox exhibits no other known hazards. Actually with a toxicity level comparable to sugar and salt water, it is not surprising that Krytox is used in cosmetic products!
Krytox is not included on any hazardous SARA EHS, CERCLA, or SARA toxic chemicals list; nor is it regulated by the EPA, DOT, or FDA. In fact, we have been awarded an NSF approval for use in certain applications with incidental food contact."
http://www2.dupont.com/Lubrica...4.pdf 




_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 3:07 PM 2-26-2007_


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Excellent info Wolfsburger, thanks for the follow up research.
Kevin


----------



## darien (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (Bster67)*

Laura:
I bought mine from 1stvwparts.com. It's $52.02 + $7.95 shipping. Shipping via UPS. Took them almost 4 business day to email me about the shipment tracking information. HTH.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (darien)*

I've heard a lot of good things about www.1stvwparts.com. They don't advertise here on Vortex, but the parts manager there is a member here on Vortex. It seems that the company is actually a VW dealer, and they are creative enough to run an Internet parts business on the side. Based on what I have read in all the other forums, I think you can buy there with confidence.
Michael


----------



## andythai (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*

Michael,hi there,im still waiting for my EOS which is in the port,about one more week or so they tell me.Today i went to VW spare parts department in Nicosia and asked if they had some G 052 172 A1.they said they didnt but could order it..delivery time...........2 months or more because its classified as a chemical and the cant bring it by air







do you know where i can order it from Europe without all thi hastle? thanks Andy.


----------



## vweosdriver (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*

One thing that I've noticed with my now well lubricated seals is that the top of the tray the top rests on in the trunk is also lubricated in certain areas.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (andythai)*

Hi Andy:
It is a chemical, that is true, but it is not a 'dangerous good' by any means. In other words, it presents no more of a hazard for shipping that toothpaste does.
Perhaps your best alternative might be to get a VW dealer in Europe to send you a bottle of it by post. The whole package is very small and lightweight (no larger than a little airline miniature bottle of alcohol), it could easily be shipped in a 10 cm square box... total weight perhaps 150 grams at most.
Michael


----------



## andythai (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*

thanks alot Michael,ive ordered it from london through my cousin.the waiting is almost over http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## pjgraham86 (Aug 10, 2006)

Update for any interested UK Eos owners who still have leak issues. My Eos (delivered 13 January) still has an occasional drip onto the interior sill as I described in an earlier post. It seems to be completely random - heavy rain can leave it bone dry but then after a wash the drip can appear. 
The car has been to the nearest dealer with an Eos trained technician and "recall 61A8" was apparently carried out, the car was water tested (not sure how) and declared to be leak free.
When the drip re-appeared a few days ago I e-mailed the salesman with a copy of Michael's post attached. I have been contacted by the Service Manager who advised that they believed that the dealer who carried out the previous work had lubricated some of the seals (no mention was made of the VW lubricant so it may or may not have been that which was used but I would hope so). He said the special lubricant was on back order (ie out of stock) as there was none in the UK at the moment(!) and it would arrive in 7 to 10 days. When it arrives, the car will be booked in and they (the supplying dealer) will carry out a full lubrication.
I will update you all as to the results as soon as I can. I sincerely hope they do the work as thoroughly as Michael and his dealership and achieve the same results!!
Peter


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (pjgraham86)*

Hi Peter:
Thanks for sharing your experience. The techs at my VW dealership (VW Richmond Hill, north of Toronto, Canada) have now lubricated two Eos, and it seems it takes about 25 to 30 minutes to do a really thorough job and get every single seal on the car. That does not count the time required to wash the car first, or to let it air-dry with the roof down and the trunk lid open, prior to applying the lubricant.
They have three more unsold Eos in inventory, and have set aside two bottles of the special lubricant as 'dedicated' to those vehicles. They made the policy decision that they would lubricate all seals on the day of delivery, not as part of the PDI process, because sometimes there can be a fair amount of time between when the PDI is carried out (and the car then put in the showroom) and the time someone actually buys and takes delivery of it.
Michael


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael, its been said before, but you have the sort of dealership that makes one want to drive up there for service!

_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_They made the policy decision that they would lubricate all seals on the day of delivery, not as part of the PDI process, because sometimes there can be a fair amount of time between when the PDI is carried out (and the car then put in the showroom) and the time someone actually buys and takes delivery of it.

Although, if the seals are already aging and drying in transport, and on the lots in the rain and getting washed by the dealership, *why wouldn't the dealer want the seals to look and act their best for potential customers too?*
Especially if rain might get into the car and make it musty, or have water there when you show it off







, you would want the seals to be good before then.
Although I certainly admire the people at that dealership as well as yourself! I feel that with your presentation of the seal lubrication experience (& $50 worth of oil) I will be able to restore the seals in this car to supple, water-resistant SEALS.
Maybe I should try them on my other seals too.
I can see that your dealership wants to give a clear base-timeline for when the service was done, *and that is very commendable*. But unless the factory starts to do it themselves as they are shipped out _(not a bad idea)_, then the dealers need to do it when they get the cars, especially if the vehicles are going to be outside in the elements.
William
























_Modified by kghia at 8:24 PM 3-2-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (kghia)*

William:
It doesn't really make a lot of sense to apply lubricant to the seals before putting the car in the showroom. First of all, the roof works just fine on a new car that has never been driven. Second, the cars are shipped from the factory with a protective adhesive sheet material (Rapgard) stuck all over the car, even if a seal was physically missing, water would not get inside. Normally, the dealer does not remove this material until the car is brought inside the showroom - in other words, vehicles that have arrived and are simply being kept in inventory are usually left in the storage compound with the Rapgard (and all the other protective shipping coverings) still in place. Lastly, the lubricant is greasy when it is first applied, and people would get it all over their hands (and all over the paint and upholstery of the new car) if it was applied to the car and the car was then put in an indoor showroom for display.
The whole point of lubricating the seals on the day of delivery is to ensure that everything is all set to go when the customer takes delivery of the car. The same concept applies to other components of the car, for example, the battery is always charged on day of delivery, because it is assumed that it will have depleted somewhat during shipping. It's pointless to charge it prior to day of delivery unless the car doesn't start. Tire pressures are always checked on day of delivery, other fluid levels are always checked on day of delivery, etc. All of these tasks are need to be repeated periodically throughout the life of the vehicle, thus it only makes sense to ensure that the "clock is set to zero", so to speak, on the day that the customer takes delivery. This strategy ensures the highest possible level of customer satisfaction.
I suppose that if VW starts to get complaints from prospective customers (showroom visitors) that roof seals are leaking on cars that are on display in the indoor showrooms, they will take a second look at things and perhaps revisit the issue. But I have not heard of any complaints such as this yet.
About your suggestion that the factory pre-lubricate seals - listen, I know you are very keen about cars, but I honestly don't think either one of us is qualified to start telling the factory how to build cars. Let's just stick to things that we know, in other words, things that we have personal experience with.
Michael
*PS:* Before you raise an objection about "the lubricant is greasy", let me answer it for you. The lubricant is going to stay greasy as long as the car is kept indoors. As soon as you take it outside, drive it around, get some dust on it, wash it once or twice, etc. the surface greasiness will go away.


----------



## gdevitry (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Non-VW Krylox option: GMPartsDirect $42.44 (shipped for 1 oz). Took 14 days from order date but the applicator is nice. It has an applicator tip (felt with a push stopper). Granted some will be lost in the felt, but it applied nicely and evenly.








Two cars (EOS and G6 panoramic sunroof, which also rattled!) and still 1/3 left.


----------



## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (gdevitry)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdevitry* »_Non-VW Krylox option: GMPartsDirect $42.44 (shipped for 1 oz). 

Greg,
That is a very user-unfriendly site to search, do you have a part number or link to the page?
Thanks,
Bruce


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (flheat)*

The GM part number for their liquid Krytox is 3634770
There is a search box at the top left of the webpage where you put in the part number, and it will come right up.
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com
Additional details about the GM bottled liquid Krytox oil can be seen in the first post of this thread.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2819603


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael,
Sorry, but I have to agree that William has a valid point on this one.
I agree that while the car is in "storage" there would be no advantage to applying lubricant to the seals.
But once a car is PDI'd it is generally ready for presentation and demonstration to potential buyers. By lubricating the seals during PDI the dealership would eliminate the possibility of any seal pinching that could occur during a demo of the roof operation. (and lets be realistic, on the Eos there is a good possibility the roof could be demo'ed many times)
If the car sits on the lot long enough to require an additional application of lubricant before delivery to the customer, then so be it.
It has been stated on this forum many times that on a $30-$50K car (depending on region), a $100 dollar maintenance expenditure is no big deal to protect the investment.
I think it would be a common sense decision for a dealership to lubricate the seals at PDI to protect their investment, and to promote brand integrity. If required, an additional application of lubricant prior to delivery would be good customer service.
Kevin


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (just4fun)*

Hi Kevin:
Maybe a good 'compromise in the middle' might be to inspect the function of the seals (roof opening and closing cycles) at the time of PDI, and if no problems (pinches) are found, wait until delivery day to apply the lubricant, but if any pinches are found, to apply the lubricant right away to get rid of the pinches.
The primary problem associated with applying the lubricant to a car that will be put in an indoor showroom is that it will retain a bit of a 'greasy' finish as long as the car remains indoors, in a warm and 'clean air' environment, and it is not washed. This means that the lubricant is going to wind up everywhere else - on the paint, on the interior, on the customers, etc.
Michael


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I have to wonder if this discussion is being mirrored in other Eos forums around the world.


----------



## bbwinterpeg (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

As someone waiting (somewhat patiently) for my Eos, I have been following this tread with a lot of interest. 
WolfsburgerMitFries's point brings up a question: I wonder is other coupe-cabriolet vehicles experience similar issues with their roofs? I think the Krytox is a good work-around solution, but the engineer in me wonders if this is a design issue, rather than a maintenance one. It would be interesting if anyone knows how the Volvo C70, Mercedes SLK, and even the Euro CCs do in terms of leakage. 
In other words, are the seals a generic issue with coupe-cabriolets, or particular to the Eos?

_Modified by bbwinterpeg at 3:31 PM 3-3-2007_

_Modified by bbwinterpeg at 3:32 PM 3-3-2007_


_Modified by bbwinterpeg at 3:32 PM 3-3-2007_


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (bbwinterpeg)*

Hi Robert, welcome to the forum,
I can't speak specifically to seals and leaks on other drop top designs by other manufactures, however when I contacted the Canadian Krytox distributor he told me it was a common occurance to get calls from individuals looking for Krytox in small quantity packaging for use on their retractable hard tops.
Whether this is to prevent leaks or squeaks or both I'm not certain, but it is an indication that lubricating seals on other brands of retractables is fairly common.
My curiosity is getting the better of me; your handle bbwinterpeg, are you from Manitoba at some point in time??
Kevin









_Modified by just4fun at 5:13 PM 3-3-2007_


_Modified by just4fun at 9:09 PM 3-3-2007_


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Kevin:
Maybe a good 'compromise in the middle' 
Michael

As a good Canadian, I can always agree to taking a stand firmly on the fence.






















Having worked with both the grease and liquid forms of the product I am confident that if the lubricant is properly "massaged" into, and absorbed by the seals, unwanted transfer to other surfaces should be minimal.
Those that have followed my posts know that I treated the weatherstripping on my van with the Krytox grease. The weatherstripping around the doors is where you would be most apt to rub against them and transfer lubricant to your clothing or skin. We have not experienced this difficulty.
I did have some liquid lubricant smeared on the paint on the Eos after applying the lubricant, but this was from my hands where I leaned on the car or opened a door, etc. I have washed and toweled down the car a couple times since, and have not noticed any smearing.
A successful sales person would take advantage of the opportunity to show a prospective buyer what a properly maintained seal looks and feels like and would extol the virtues of how properly maintained, soft supple, seals will keep the car warm, snug, and dry for many years.
At any rate we've beat this one around long enough, in my humble opinion, the sooner the lubricant is applied the seals the better, and after that regular applications as required is the ticket.
Kevin












_Modified by just4fun at 9:06 PM 3-3-2007_


----------



## big_sos (Mar 4, 2007)

*Re: (just4fun)*

I too was wondering that same thing about other drop tops. I can't speak to hard top convertibles, my wife has has many regular drop-tops. Never don the gasket rejuvinate thing. My wife's current car is a 2002 MR-2 spyder, After reading, I specidically looked at the seals around the top. They are as soft and supple as the day I bought the car.
I like the EOS very much and find it very appealing. Also looking at several other hard top convertible's like the MB SLK. The thought of "oiling" the gaskets every 6 months is a strike against the EOS. But maybe the other's problems just arn't as well documented?
SOS


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (big_sos)*

Hi Sean:
I suspect that the roof seals on the newer 'convertible hardtops' (Mercedes, Volvo, Volkswagen) are made of a newer design seal material than the roof seals on your 2002 vehicle, and this is why they all require periodic lubrication with the special lubricant to perform at their best.
Michael


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (big_sos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *big_sos* »_ The thought of "oiling" the gaskets every 6 months is a strike against the EOS. But maybe the other's problems just arn't as well documented?
SOS

I would strongly encourage everyone who is following this issue to NOT interpret the weatherstrip maintenance with Krytox as some sort of design deficiency or under engineering. That sentiment should probably be added to the 1st/key post. All retractible hardtops are going to need (and would benefit from) this maintenence regimen, the owners may just not know it yet.
The intent in my original question above (maybe 5 posts) was more about wondering if other forums get into the excruciating level of detail that we have. There's now 2 massive threads with piles of information about something that in reality, is pretty simple.
I'm sure all discussion forums for owners of retractable hardtops are eventually going to come to the same level of collective consciousness regarding seal maintenence that we have, regardless of who makes the car. I just feel that by the nature of the Vortex being largest automotive community on the internet, we have gotten ahead of the curve in our examination of this issue.




_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 12:07 AM 3-4-2007_


----------



## big_sos (Mar 4, 2007)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

I don't know that I see this weatherstrip issue as a design defect. I just look at it as normal maintenence. All cars have features which have pro's and con's. Some people want them and some people don't. 
I still know people who hate electric windows. Their theory is they will break and need to be fixed, where if they only had a crank, they would be fine. I could go on with this list forever.
Convertible tops are one of the areas that require some special attention. I remember when they used to have plastic rear-windows which would get all foggy after a couple of years. And you'd need to shell out $$$ for a new one. Well, that was life if you wanted a drop-top.
I think the convertible hard top is one of those things (along with perhaps the panoramic roofs) that need a little extra attention. You've got to make sure it's maintained properly. It's like changing the oil. The enjoyment you get is a full hard top that converts to a top-down, fun convertible. You just have to weigh the trade-offs.
Some will buy a honda civic sedan with cloth seats and call it a day. I (and I know my wife) prefer somthing more exciting. And the EOS certainly fits that description.
Thanks to everyone in this forum for documenting this procedure. In the end, I know it will make a lot of EOS users much happier customers.


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (big_sos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *big_sos* »_I still know people who hate electric windows. Their theory is they will break and need to be fixed, where if they only had a crank, they would be fine. I could go on with this list forever.
Convertible tops are one of the areas that require some special attention. I remember when they used to have plastic rear-windows which would get all foggy after a couple of years. And you'd need to shell out $$$ for a new one. Well, that was life if you wanted a drop-top.


yes, I'd take those analogies, but you need to think about what you would say if the electric window broke on the first month (or sooner).
What if the plastic rear window fogged up slowly to opaque by the end of a month or two?
I had to replace the top on my VW 181, and it was fogged like that. My *1976* VW 181.
Even though it is not listed as a regular maintenance item with a schedule, I feel perfectly fine treating it on a schedule_(although not replacing the top)_. I just think that schedule should begin ____ _units_ *after* ownership.
Have any of you changed your transmission oil yet? _It needs to last 80k miles, make sure it starts off good._








We need to get gubbygirl in her for a comment. Leaks led to her top begin serviced and I think replaced. I wouldn't want to think of that as a maintenance item.









BTW, on that electric window theory-- that was me too! A salesman was trying to sell me a used VW Westy camper from a group 1989, 1990, 1990, and "I said what about when the electric window winder breaks?" He told me (and you could feel) that there was the end of the shaft, that the handcrank fits on, right behind the cloth on the door panel. You could just poke it open and fit the external parts on if you wished. Or you would get the electrics fixed. I didn't end up buying it, but I thought that was a great design.
William


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## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: (big_sos)*

There was a time many many years ago







when vehicle maintenance by the owner was an expected part of vehicle ownership. Many people actually took enjoyment from the maintenance activity, and pride in having a well-maintained vehicle.
That population of car owners is decreasing. It's nowhere near the majority of owners (although it's probably a majority of participants here). 
Walk up to your nearest Toyota or Volkswagen dealer and talk to the couple buying a new vehicle. Ask them what they expect to do to maintain the vehicle. A shocking number will respond only with following the maintenance schedule in the manaul (and some will argue even that isn't entirely needed). Some will remember to wash their vehicle at the local 3-minute automatic pressure wash, and hopefully a few will remember to check the air pressure in their tires (although even that is becoming less "necessary" with TPMS). Checking fluids? Nah - the car will tell the driver when something is wrong. Actually working on the vehicle? Never - someone else does that.








Along comes a hardtop convertible. Apparently, regular, "frequent" maintenance will be required, and it's not something that the local oil lube shop will do for $25. Heck, the materials alone might be $30! This might be something the owner would actually have to do themselves!!! Shocking for a new vehicle.
The alternative will be people ignoring this basic maintenance, hearing squeaks and getting wet, and establishing a generation of people who believe hardtop convertibles aren't "reliable" or aren't "quality vehicles". Since the vehicle is under warranty, expensive repairs may be required where simple maintenance was needed, and I'm sure there will be arguments about responsibility.
I don't yet understand how frequently this seal maintenance will be required, nor who will be doing this work, nor how much it will cost, nor how often a lack of seal maintenance will lead to problems. Without that understanding I cannot speculate on the significance of this issue. I do think that hardtop manufacturers need to get ahead of this by quickly understanding the potential for customer dissatisfaction and the requirements for maintenance, then communicating with everyone (salesmen to set expectations, service departments to provide appropriate service, engineers to update maintenance schedules, trade press to evangelize the need for maintenance and the ease of doing it) to set expectations for hardtop seal maintenance.
One thing I think I can predict - selling a VW Eos in North America to owners who aren't expecting to buy a $100 bottle of lubricant and spend an hour rubbing oil into seals, is a sure-fire way to annoy a large segment of Eos owners. The expectations of owners are very different today than they were even a few years ago.


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (big_sos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *big_sos* »_I don't know that I see this weatherstrip issue as a design defect. I just look at it as normal maintenence...Convertible tops are one of the areas that require some special attention.

I agree that convertibles require extra maintenance, but I'm not quite ready to give VW a pass on this one yet. If we were just talking about wind noise and rattles, then I'd say sure, you just have to maintain the seals. But the fact that a number of people are reporting water leaks worries me.
A convertible shouldn't be designed so that it requires perfect seals to keep water out, like a watertight container. It should use a system more like the shingles, flashing and gutters on a house roof, so that water is naturally guided away from the interior. This way, as the car loosens up over time, it still won't leak.
It's quite possible this is the case with the Eos, and there is just some issue that needs to be fixed with the cars that leaked. Certainly most of the design appears to follow these principles.
However, while I haven't had a chance to do a close examination of the Eos seals since Michael's posting, I have seen one thing that concerns me in the photos (see below). That rolled seal is designed to act as a secondary seal, and also to act like a gutter, and guide water out the sides; that's good. So why is there a gap in it over the A pillar? I can't help but notice this is where a number of people have reported leaks. If that opening will allow water that gets through the initial seal to drain into the interior, I would consider that a design flaw, even if lubricating the seal can keep water from getting through it in the first place.








There have been some reports from the UK that leaking seals were replaced with a new type, though it wasn't clear if that might have been confusion on the part of the service advisors. Michael said these photos are of an early car, so I wonder if VW might have changed this in more recent production.


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (neweosowner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neweosowner* »_I don't yet understand how frequently this seal maintenance will be required, nor who will be doing this work, nor how much it will cost, nor how often a lack of seal maintenance will lead to problems. Without that understanding I cannot speculate on the significance of this issue.

I don't think that VW knows either, although apparently they are starting to learn in some places.
The fact is, the owner's manual only vaguely mentions treatment and a part #, and add to that that dealerships are adding different markups to an expensive product. If the owner's manual *even gave* a treatment interval...
*Plus*, they took the owner's manual out of plastic AFTER the sale was completed, and put it in the car. The treatment was never mentioned at any time, and not mentioned on VW.com for sure.
I _really don't mind_ doing treatments-- I just feel the car should be ready _until next treatment date_ when you get it *new*. That is how other fluids and greases etc. work. I was even prepared to bring mine in for a 500mile "break-in fluids" change, but the dealer said it wasn't needed.
William
PS. I have bought a small bottle of Krytox from 1stVWparts.com, and a big bottle from another vendor from other threads on Krytox. Will come next week.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (flubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flubber* »_...I have seen one thing that concerns me in the photos (see below). That rolled seal is designed to act as a secondary seal, and also to act like a gutter, and guide water out the sides; that's good. So why is there a gap in it over the A pillar? I can't help but notice this is where a number of people have reported leaks. If that opening will allow water that gets through the initial seal to drain into the interior, I would consider that a design flaw...

Hi Joe:
I noticed that small opening in the front seal, but I don't have any pictures available of the forward edge of the roof panel that fits into the opening, so I can't speculate about why it is there.
I do know that Webasto - the vendor that supplies the roof - has been in the roof business for an awful long time. They have supplied the majority of sliding glass sunroofs (conventional sunroofs) to VW for the past 15 years, so, they are not beginners. I am going to guess that the gap you identify is there for a very specific purpose, and Webasto knows what that purpose is, even if we don't.







In other words, I doubt if it is an oversight or a compromise.
Michael


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (neweosowner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neweosowner* »_ The expectations of owners are very different today than they were even a few years ago.

A very well articulated post Arylnn, and it very much mirrors my opinion on seal maintenance.
The majority of auto owners these days expect to hand over their keys to the service dept at scheduled periods, have the vehicle serviced and/or repaired as required, and perform (practically) flawlessly.
I think it is imperative that VW add roof seal maintenance to the scheduled maintenance on the Eos to ensure the vehicle does not develop a reputation of a "leaky bucket".
I agree with you that the enthusiasts here on the forum represent a small percentage of overall Eos owners. Most are probably out driving their cars right now, blissfully unaware of "seal maintenance" and the like.
If VW would add roof seal maintenance to the routine maintenance schedule on the Eos, these folks can continue their blissfull existence, with little or no worries.
Kevin


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I do know that Webasto - the vendor that supplies the roof - has been in the roof business for an awful long time. They have supplied the majority of sliding glass sunroofs (conventional sunroofs) to VW for the past 15 years, so, they are not beginners.

Agreed; I believe they are the #1 sunroof maker in the world. They've also had several years to work on this design (since the Oasys Vision in 2002). And VW rightly brags of how much testing they did. All of that helps to inspire confidence.
But I'd still like to understand the mechanics of how it's possible for it to leak. And if it relies only on the integrity of the seals, I think there are better ways, even if only used as a backup to the seals. What can I say? I'm an engineer; I like to know how things work, and I like to make them work better.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (flubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flubber* »_But I'd still like to understand the mechanics of how it's possible for it to leak. 

As near I can figure out, there are two possible causes for roof leaks.
*95%* of the time, leaks occur because the seals have become dry and lost their pliability. Lubricating them with the special lubricant solves this problem.
*5% *of the time, a mechanical adjustment is needed to ensure that the windows properly position themselves (x, y, and z axis) against the seal that the upper edge of the window touches. There are alignment marks silk-screened onto the glass to make this easy to verify.
I'm not including 'one off' snags, such as a damaged seal, in this analysis. There have not been enough reports of one-off events to be significant.
Michael


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re:*

I have owned my Eos for 5 months now. I can't say whether it leaks or not because it mostly stays in the garage when the weather is bad. The car was built 08/06 and I took delivery 10/06. My seals were grayish when I got the car and they still are that color. Maybe the discoloration is due to the time it was around salt air. I don't know if it leaks badly although I have seen the usual couple of drops of water when the dealer washes the car. I would think the car should not leak for at least several months after you get the car. Like a lot of the others on the forum, I have ordered a bottle of Krytox and once it warms up outside I will be out working on my seals. I looked at my owner's manual and find that if you look in Booklet 3.2 page 25 they tell you about care of the roof seals and the use of Krytox. It would appear VW knows that the seals may dry out and should be maintained. At the 20K mile check they do something to the roof but the Booklet covers the Beetle and others. So what they will do to the Eos is uncertain. Yes it would be nice if VW or the dealer would Krytox the roof at time of delivery or shortly afterward. Michael has done a great job with his Krytox writeup and is trying to get with his VW contacts to get some answers. VW will take some time to work this out. In the meantime we can not expect the dealers to do this for us for free until (if) VW issues them a TB to do so. If your dealers do so, great. We will just have to be patient, if possible...........
Andy 


_Modified by cb391 at 9:32 PM 3-4-2007_


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## bbwinterpeg (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: (just4fun)*

Kevin,
What you write rings true: I know I'm going to use the Krytox to stop the squeaks my smart fortwo convertible roof makes while driving down that potholed excuse for a road we call the Deerfoot. 








To asnwer your question, it DOES stand for "born & bred winnipegger"! I've only spent the last 10 years in Alberta. 
Cheers,
Rob


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## maxdot (Dec 17, 2006)

I've had my Eos for 5 weeks now (3 of them spent tucked up in its garage while I was away on vacation) and rejoiced in 350 kms of driving so far. And rejoice is the word. But though I haven't had any leaks (apart from the drips that fall in every time you open either of the doors or the lid of the trunk), I have experienced the famous squeaks from the roof that sounded like I had a cage of large budgerigars on the back seat - something that isn't covered in the manual but has, thank heavens, been well documented on this forum. I had already equipped myself with the Krytox 205 grease (prior to this particular thread) and it seems to have solved the problem immediately. I have to say that it was only moderately easy to apply. Being slow to be absorbed, I had to keep rubbing it in for some time and I found it impossible not to get it on adjacent bits of bodywork and glass (not to mention what the side windows picked up along their top edges when I shut the doors). So far I have not been able to remove these smears and wonder if anyone has any ideas?
It seems to me that where grease has it over the liquid form is on those seals where you have to apply it upwards or overhand - like the one under the back window panel or the one above the side windows. How do you 105ers manage? At the very least I could squeeze some on to a finger tip which would seem promlematic with the liquid?
Apropos of leaks, I was 'intrigued' to find when I got back from vacation - after the car had been picked up in dry weather and left under shelter (ie had only been subjected to minimujm splashes, not actual rain) - that the underside of the hardboard panel that supports the carpet at the bottom of the trunk was covered in mould and the top of the spare tyre was wet with condensation. I say condensation because there was absolutely no sign of any dampness under the tyre and the carpet itself was also dry. Has anyone else had this happen? The garage tut-tutted, cleaned and dried it off, hinted that 'maybe in the initial washing process....' and told me to keep an eye on it. Which I have and the mould is beginning to appear again. Strange because, as I say, everywhere else, like the carpets, looks and feels completely dry. I suppose it might be the water that gets in when you open the trunk lid when it's raining? And don't you just love that ratty piece of hardboard among all that leather on a $44,000 car !
Max 

_Modified by maxdot at 10:36 PM 3-4-2007_


_Modified by maxdot at 10:40 PM 3-4-2007_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (maxdot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxdot* »_...I had already equipped myself with the Krytox 205 grease (prior to this particular thread) ... I found it impossible not to get it on adjacent bits of bodywork and glass ...So far I have not been able to remove these smears and wonder if anyone has any ideas?

Hi Max:
I'm really sorry to hear of your difficulties, especially your difficulties with the grease residue.
By definition, any product sold in a 'grease' format is designed to cling to a surface. The liquid special lubricant that VW specifies in the Owner Manual (VW part number G 052 172 A1) is quite fluid, and when the staff at my dealership were lubricating the very first Eos as illustrated in the photos at the top of page 1 of this discussion, a fair amount of the lubricant wound up on the paint and the glass. It was very easy to remove this excess liquid lubricant using a soft cloth that had been dampened with a bit of household window cleaner - the liquid did not leave any unwanted residue at all.
In the past, I have used a 3M chemical called "3M General Purpose Adhesive and Wax Remover" to get rid of unwanted grease, gummy spots, stuff like that on painted surfaces of my Volkswagen. This product is normally not sold at retail, but my guess is that if you visit any well stocked auto body shop in your community (and bring a small glass bottle with you!), you should be able to get a few ounces of it. Put it on a paper towel, then wipe the residual grease that is on the paint or glass with it.
Be aware that it is a moderately nasty chemical, and it irritates me if I get it on my skin. So wear some fairly tough rubber gloves when you work with it. The thin latex gloves that you find at service stations (near the diesel pump) are no good - you need domestic rubber gloves. Also, work outside with the stuff, it is pretty volatile. Hope this info helps.
Michael
*3M General Purpose Adhesive and Wax Remover*
_Not necessary for removing excess G 052 172 A1 (use glass cleaner for that), but might remove excess grease-based lubricants._


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## maxdot (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (flubber)*



flubber said:


> I have seen one thing that concerns me in the photos . That rolled seal is designed to act as a secondary seal, and also to act like a gutter, and guide water out the sides; that's good. So why is there a gap in it over the A pillar?
> Joe
> I took a look at my roof earlier today and that slot is where the drain seal that runs below the opening sun roof joins the A frame, thus in theory and mostly in practise preventing any water that is caught by the seals falling into the car. Certainly both seals would need to be supple to make a convincing water-tight join. I must say, after greasing all the seals and therefore being made aware of all the complexities of where water could come from I am in some admiration of the Webasto engineers
> Max
> ...


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## maxdot (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael
Thanks for the tip - and the original post which made things a whole lot easier. I'll creep round with my specimen bottle and see what I can find. In fact I've just heard from the suppliers of the grease that there is a specific Krytox solvent to deal with the problem - meths, white spirit etc, won't touch it apparently.
I went to my dealers today to pick up some rubber mats and asked about G 052 172 A1 - they didn't really know about it and definitely didn't have any.Which worries me for other local Eos owners who don't have this Forum to tell them what to look out for. I feel kinda shy about telling the service technicians their job, but I guess I'll get round to it when I know them better - not that I really want to know them too well. I don't mean to haunt their establishment. In France the official price is 41 euros (about $53).
Max


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: (maxdot)*

BTW 
~= $60.00 shipped from 1stVWParts.com...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (maxdot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxdot* »_...I've just heard from the suppliers of the *grease *that there is a specific Krytox solvent to deal with the problem - meths, white spirit etc, won't touch it apparently.

Max:
That is correct for Krytox *greases *- DuPont makes a special chemical to remove the *greases*. But - and I only mention this here to avoid confusion amongst other readers - the VW recommended special lubricant part number G 052 172 A1 is an *oil*, not a grease. No special chemical is needed to get the oil off of non-porous surfaces such as painted surfaces or glass - a paper towel dampened with glass cleaner does the job perfectly.
This is one of the reasons I have been recommending that we all take the cautious route and use only the VW specified lubricant (G 052 172 A1) until we can determine with exact certainty what the DuPont specification is for that VW lubricant.
By the way, I have since learned from VW (from a 'forum friend') that VW part number G 052 172 A*2*, the aerosol spray version of A1, contains the exact same specification and viscosity of lubricant as A1 contains, the only difference being that A2 comes packaged as a small aerosol can and it also has propellant in it to push the lubricant out of the spray can. Therefore, I think we can consider it to be acceptable to use either A1 or A2 for roof seal lubrication.
I have actually seen VW German technical bulletins where they specify A2 for Eos roof seal lubrication, rather than A1. I think this is probably because A2 is faster to apply (thus there is a labour saving when VW is paying for the work to be done under warranty, or on the production line), although on a per-ounce of pure lubricant basis - meaning, after deducting the weight of the propellant in the aerosol can - A1 is probably the least expensive way to buy the special lubricant.
Michael


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## capulet (Mar 4, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael,
I have an EOS on order and asked the dealer parts guys about the lubricant. They knew all about it (which is positive) and say they always keep some in stock, but the one they have is the spray marked as G 052 172 A2 in a 100ml can. I'm guessing this is the oil but in a spray form, but wasn't sure if one tin was expected to last 2 complete sessions or if the spray meant you pretty much used it all up in one go and if it would be better to get them to get a 30ml bottle in for me. Just wondered if you had any experience of this version.
Thanks,
Andy


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## EOSmage (Feb 9, 2007)

I'm about to re-post this in the thread because it was suggested that it should be added here too. Sorry for those who have already read it.
-------
My two cents:
The service department at my local dealership really like to talk about cars. Any cars. Actually, I've found them very knowledgeable about the VWs and wasn't surprised to find out that they knew alot about the EOS.
I was told that, need it or not, all EOS cars will be lubricated upon entering the service center as part of the regular maintenance schedule. You pay for an oil change, so they are going to do the oil on the seals too.
My service adviser was shocked to see me purchasing a bottle of the lubricant. He asked why I was spending the $80 when the shop will do it for me. He commented that the bottle would last me forever, as it was meant to be a shop stocked part for service department use.
Upon further talk, they were trained to use only a tiny tiny amount on the seals. Instead of a long line of lubricant all along the seal, they put only a small dot every few inches. Apparently, this is to ensure that there is not an "excess" of oil that might run onto paint or windows in a heavy rain.
The service guy's words, "better to do small amounts on a regular basis than too much once ni a while."
So, I guess it is a good thing to add to the lubricating your seals. Only use that much if the seals are really dry with lots of white showing. but a little less if they are mostly lubricated and just going after keeping them soft. Perhaps the oil will last longer after all.
Overall, however, I wanted to say that I was impressed with the people I've talked to in the dealership. I'm trying to generate the same rapport with them that Michael has with his; this is going to take time and a fair amount of friendly chatter (not to mention the $$$ I'll spend with them)
Cowell Motors is the name of the dealership, for those in the Richmond/Vancouver area. They are straight up and I'm happy with their service.
-----
Also, as for the spray, oil, or grease... I have the grease and never applied it to the seals. I suggest using the oil (and only the oil) because it is easy to control. I'd be scared that a spray would end up all over the car. That's my opinion, and I've only oiled the seals once, so i'm really not an authority on this.
(side note: When I bought the grease, I saw how thick it was and was worried that it would behave badly with cloths or internal carpets. That's why I opted to buy the oil too)


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (EOSmage)*

The Volkswagen aerosol spray (A2 part number) is 100ML volume for ALL the contents, but according to the MSDS sheets, its only 5-7% Krytox by weight. Krytox is rather dense, so by volume, you end up with less than 5-7 ML in the spray can. So you actually get less than 1/5th of the Krytox with the A2 part number compared with the A1 oil. Just buy the oil (A1 part number) like the owners manual says.
Here's the MSDS for the aerosol spray. Mostly propellants, very little Krytox. I think its safe to call the spray a bad value unless its $15 a can or less.












_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 10:37 AM 3-7-2007_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_I think its safe to call the spray a bad value unless its $15 a can or less.

I agree with you, for us, the more enthusiastic than average "I'd rather do it myself with a cup of coffee on a Saturday morning", the special lubricant in the spray can (suffix A2) is not the best value for money - the same special lubricant in the one ounce bottle (suffix A1) is by far the best value for money.
However... if I was having my Eos roof lubricated by my Swiss VW dealer, where the shop labour rate is $150 per hour, I would hope and pray that they would use the spray can and get the job done in 3 minutes, rather than in 20 or 25 minutes as with the liquid.








I'm pretty sure that VW released the spray can version for precisely that situation - where the cost of labour to apply the lubricant would be higher than the cost of the lubricant itself. Although I have not seen the spray can in person, my guess is that one spray can is probably good for one complete Eos application (then the can is empty), whereas we all know now that a one ounce bottle of the liquid is good for two complete Eos applications - in other words, two nice enjoyable Saturday morning "pamper your car" activities in the driveway, with a coffee, the neighbors smiling, the birds chirping, the sun shining on the white picket fences, the flag rustling in the breeze, blah blah blah...








Michael


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Before I start this post I want to state emphatically that I *am not *promoting the use of GPL 205 grease on the Eos roof seals. However, since there has been considerable past discussion regarding the product, I provide the following for information purposes.
1. I have received MSDS sheets on both GPL 105 and GPL 205. I haven't figured out how to attach a .pdf to the post, so if someone can enlighten me, I'll add them for all to see. (Note: these are for the Dupont Krytox product, not the VW product)
2. Someone once asked how much actual Krytox is in the GPL 205 grease. According to the MSDS there is between 73% and 82% Krytox in the various grease products. The remainder is PTFE (teflon) powder used as a thickner. So at minimum you are getting 73% Krytox.
3. There has been discussion lately about the grease product smearing and/or the liquid product dripping onto various parts of the car. I have used both products, the grease on the weatherstripping on my van, and the oil on _all_ the seals on the Eos. In both cases I have had little or no problems with smearing, dripping, or unwanted transfer of any kind off the seals. (off my hands yes, off the seals no)I believe, if either product is used sparingly, and worked well into the seals, there should be little, or no, unwanted transfer. 
4. If you have used Krytox grease on your roof seals is there any reason to be concerned of damage to the seals? In my opinion, *and this is strictly an opinion*, I would say no. I asked the same question way back in the original Krytox thread and received a response from a chemical engineer who confirmed that both Krytox and Teflon were inert products that should not harm the seals in any way.
5. The MSDS sheet does recommend wearing protective clothing, including impervious gloves when working with the product. Dupont is a very safety concious company, and this may be a bit of "over caution" on their behalf since the MSDS does not identify any hazardous properties, unless the product is heated beyond 600 dgrees F.
Kevin










_Modified by just4fun at 12:37 AM 3-9-2007_


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (just4fun)*

Since you asked, I'll also offer an opinion.
I think the GPL-205 grease would work just fine and be perfectly safe for the Eos. I used GPL-205 in the door weatherstrip of my spare minivan which sits outside, and we just came off a 3 week period where it never got above freezing. The doors opened and closed like it was summer, no hardness, sticking or resistance at all in the weatherstrip like there normally is in winter. I was entirely satisfied with the performance of GPl-205, and I applied it 5 months ago. the long term issue with the Eos is to avoid using products which degrade/soften the seals or disturb the coating, which is why it is necessary to avoid any silicone or petroleum based products. The GPL-200 series greases are just as inert and non-reactive as the 100 series oils. The only factor I would see in your case Kevin, is that in the cold northern climate of Canada, I would think thinner variants are more appropriate for you, strictly from an application standpoint. Will you have to apply the product in the cold, like an unheated garage?
I'll also throw this in concerning auto industry standard variants of the liquid, which would be GPL-105, 104 and 103. I think different viscosities of Krytox are suited to different climates, much like motor oil. If I lived in Texas or Arizona and was buying liquid, I'd use GPL-105. If I lived in Minnesota or Canada, I'd use GPL-103 oil. I actually bought a ½ KG of GPL-104 to experiment with in my temperate zone, it should absorb into weatherstrip more quickly, spread more easily and thin out slightly better than the GPL-105, reducing the potential for accidental overapplication and running off onto the paint . It should also have a slightly lower coefficient of friction, particularly over time. 
I think the key difference in experimenting with different viscosities of Krytox will result in service life (reapplication interval) differences, and ease of application. Its not a make or break difference, like the use of silicone or petroleum products would be. 



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 11:01 AM 3-9-2007_


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Hi Wolfsburger,
I pretty much concur with everything you say above, definitely share the same observation on our van. 
Just for discussion when I applied the GPL 205 to our van, and the GPL 105 to the Eos, the temperature both days was hovering right around freezing. I had no difficulty applying either product.
Granted, the lubricants will likely spread and absorb a little easier in warmer weather, they certainly were not diffucult to apply in cooler temps. 
For the time being I think it has been agreed (in general) to publicly recommend using the VW liquid lubricant, if for no other reason to ensure VW cannot claim someone used an "unapproved" lubricant on their seals.
Personally I think you are right on the mark with your temperature vs viscosity logic. As time and experimentation carry forward, we may very well determine that the grease is advantageous in hotter climates, and the liquid better suited to moderate and colder climates.
Kevin


----------



## hulahoops (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (just4fun)*

I would like to add to Michaels recommendation of oil or spray over grease. I applied GPL 205 a couple of weeks ago and I am still trying to remove excess. Everytime it rains I find grease smeared down the front side windows (directly in line with the forward sunroof front seal). I am pretty upset about the mess the grease has done to my car even though I now get a quiet ride. I have hardly used much from the 8oz tube, but I think I will throw it at the back of the garage and buy the liquid form instead.
Simon


----------



## Timokreon (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (Bster67)*

An update from vw-auto-parts.com
I received 4







bottles of krytox today from UPS. All told took about 2 weeks from ordering to receiving.
Good luck all


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (hulahoops)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hulahoops* »_I would like to add to Michaels recommendation of oil or spray over grease. I applied GPL 205 a couple of weeks ago and I am still trying to remove excess. Everytime it rains I find grease smeared down the front side windows (directly in line with the forward sunroof front seal). I am pretty upset about the mess the grease has done to my car even though I now get a quiet ride. I have hardly used much from the 8oz tube, but I think I will throw it at the back of the garage and buy the liquid form instead.
Simon

Hi Simon,
Not disputing your experience, but just for conversation sake, it seems out of character for the grease to run down the window when it rains. Considering the product isn't water soluble, and how difficult it is to wash off with just soap and water, one wouldn't expect it to wash easily off the seals. 
Kinda has me wondering why it would do that?








Kevin










_Modified by just4fun at 5:27 PM 3-9-2007_


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_
Hi Simon,
Not disputing your experience, but just for conversation sake, it seems out of character for the grease to run down the window when it rains. Considering the product isn't water soluble, and how difficult it is to wash off with just soap and water, one wouldn't expect it to wash easily off the seals. 
Kinda has me wondering why it would do that?








Kevin








_Modified by just4fun at 5:27 PM 3-9-2007_

Why? maybe because there is too much and it is just being "knocked loose" and spreading?
I have received my Krytox and applied, although I got the liquid in various containers.
I applied the VW Krytox about the same as Michael & crew, and used about the same amount of liquid from the bottle. The next day I did have a run down a rear seat window, and a drip on each side onto the flip up panels for the top, right under where a seal ends. *Obviously*, I applied it *a bit heavy in places*. It's all good though, blotted it off a little, a little paper lint got on seals though (use shop towels w/o much lint, not gas station cheap paper).
I also had to fret over some oily smears on the black paint in places. It comes off, but takes a little effort to *really* get it gone, even with window cleaner. Key for me = _clean paper towels; repeat_
It hasn't rained (rode with the *top down today*







), but it could use a wash to remove the dust anyway.
William


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (kghia)*

In a way, I think it might be a good sign if you encounter some "running" from excess special lubricant (the G 052 172 A1 oil) in the days immediately following application. Here's my rationale, which is just conjecture and is certainly subject to anyone arguing to the contrary:
*1)* The special lubricant accomplishes several unrelated objectives - one being to lubricate the seals where they touch the windows and where they touch each other, to ensure everything is water-tight, and another being to lubricate the seals where they touch the metal parts of the roof assembly, to ensure that the seals can freely move around to best conform to the windows and roof assembly.
*2)* If the person applying the lubricant is very cautious to not get any on the metal parts of the car, it is likely that the seals will not be sufficiently lubricated where they disappear up against the metal.
*3)* If you do see some lubricant leaking down the glass or leaking elsewhere in the days following application, this confirms that you certainly did get enough of it stuffed up into the non-visible areas of the seals.
I have now lubricated 3 different Eos myself, and every time I have done this, the car has looked like an absolute oily mess when I was finished. But... it is really easy to get the excess oil off (after the 1 hour soaking in period) by just washing the car normally with conventional car wash soap. It is probable that some oil will continue to drip down during the next few days (Jerod, if you are reading this, let me know what your experience is), but again, that oil is easily removed with normal car washing procedures.
An argument in favour of using an oil based lubricant such as G 052 172 *A1* or G 052 172 *A2* rather than the same lubricant in grease based format (e.g. G 052 172 *A3*) is that oil based lubricants are not designed to tenaciously adhere to non-porous surfaces. Grease based lubricants are specifically designed to adhere to non-porous surfaces. If you put a little bit of oil on a pane of glass, and then put a bit of grease beside it, you can wipe the oil off with a paper towel. You can't get the grease off without using a solvent. This statement is true even if the lubricant carried in the grease is exactly the same substance as the liquid (oil) lubricant.
Michael


----------



## vweosdriver (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Can anyone comment on getting the Krytox off the leather seats and what they used? I don't have this problem but, want to be prepared. TIA bob


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (vweosdriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vweosdriver* »_Can anyone comment on getting the Krytox off the leather seats and what they used? I don't have this problem but, want to be prepared. TIA bob

If you've never used Krytox and you're reading these threads, you might get the false impression that Krytox sticks problematically like road tar or indelible ink. That is not the case, Krytox is super pure, clean, clear and it wipes off with a cotton cloth like a used T-shirt. You might have to rub 2-3 times, but it will come off. Because of its nonreactive nature it tends to want to sit on surfaces, rather than absorb or permeate into surfaces like what you're used to in petroleum lubricants that have a solvent characteristic. That's also why I feel thinner variants like GPL-104 or 103 are worth exploring.
Here's 3-in-1 (light machine oil) on the left, and Krytox GPL-105 on the right. Its easy to see the purity difference. Krytox is as clear as water (its the ultimate synthetic lubricant, completely man made). Its unlike any petroleum based oil or grease you've ever dealt with. You won't fully understand it until you work with it.












_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 2:35 PM 3-10-2007_


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (vweosdriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vweosdriver* »_Can anyone comment on getting the Krytox off the leather seats and what they used? I don't have this problem but, want to be prepared. TIA bob

Here is a couple suggestions, but they are just guesses, because I haven't dealt with the problem either.
As discussed several times on this thread, Krytox is inert, so it shouldn't cause any harm or damage to the leather. However, because leather is naturally porous, the Krytox could soak in and leave a discolored spot if left long enough. Once it soaks in, I'm not sure if you would be able to remove it.
I think one possible way to help prevent the problem will be to stay on top of your leather maintenance with a good quality leather conditioner. Conditioners help leathers retain their natural oils, and often also contain additives that help seal the surface to prevent dirt and spills from absorbing or getting ground into the pores. 
If the leather is protected, and you wipe up any drips immediately, this should be helpful.
A drop sheet over the seats will obliviously help while doing the actual application. I can see where there would be a problem if a drip comes off a seal a few hours or days after the initial application and it is not noticed right away.
Kevin


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Just thought I'd post something I just observed with regard to the roof seals on our Eos.
I lubricated the seals Feb 17, 2007, so about 3 weeks ago. The car hasn't been driven much since then, it has been garaged, and has been hand washed twice.
I was preparing to wash it and condition the leather seats this afternoon and was having a good look at the seals. There are several places along the seals (the majority of the area in fact) where the seals "look" and "feel" dry. The seals are still supple, but they have the "cat tongue" feel to them again.
I mention this because I'm certain the seals do not require another application of lubricant already, but it may be a bit more difficult than I first thought to tell for sure when they do require another application. 
I had been thinking that as long as the seals had a "wet" look and a "slick" feel to them it would be oblivious that lubrication was not yet required. It appears this may not be the case.
Not sure if I'll do a quick re-apply this afternoon or not, I'll see how they look after the wash and dry.
Kevin











_Modified by just4fun at 1:02 PM 3-10-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (vweosdriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vweosdriver* »_Can anyone comment on getting the Krytox off the leather seats and what they used? 

Just wipe it off with a damp towel. This has been my experience... it comes off without any difficulty and without leaving any residue.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_*The seals are still supple*, but they have the "cat tongue" feel to them again.

I think you identified the key criteria, which is that the seals are soft, supple, yielding, and will conform around the top of the windows when the windows are lifted up.
When seals are dry, they are firm and resist deformation. I don't think visual appearance (shiny, etc.) is significant.
Michael


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I've heard a lot of good things about www.1stvwparts.com. They don't advertise here on Vortex, but the parts manager there is a member here on Vortex. It seems that the company is actually a VW dealer, and they are creative enough to run an Internet parts business on the side. Based on what I have read in all the other forums, I think you can buy there with confidence.
Michael

I mentioned this to 1stVWParts.com, and they said to me that *they ARE a banner advertiser already*
Their banner is also listed in "Current Advertisers" page.
just wanted to set this straight...
BTW, they had a good price on Krytox, below MSRP from VW (as are all of their parts)
That was also the cheapest source for VW Eos splashguards.
William


_Modified by kghia at 4:44 PM 3-14-2007_


----------



## pjgraham86 (Aug 10, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael (and all)
Following my post of 2 March my Eos was lubricated by the dealer today. They picked it up at 8am this morning and have delivered it back - a nice touch, even if they are only 1/4 mile away !!
I haven't seen the car yet but I spoke to the Service Manager a few minutes ago. He told me that the procedure in your original post was followed carefully and he has warned me to expect some residue to appear over the coming days - they have wiped off what they could see. Judging by your comments about residues, that can only be a good sign.
I can obviously post again once I've seen the car (I may not get home in daylight hours today!!) and I'll let you know my impressions. The SM did invite me to phone and ask them to collect the car "every couple of months" for a re-application if I wanted (he has a half bottle of oil left) - I'll see how things go over the summer.
All the best.
Peter


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (pjgraham86)*

Peter,
Good to hear your dealership is treating you well.
Obliviously you will keep us posted, but we are all very interested to hear how the seals perform during the next rainfall.
Hope it all works out.
Kevin


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (pjgraham86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pjgraham86* »_He told me that the procedure in your original post was followed carefully and he has warned me to expect some residue to appear over the coming days - they have wiped off what they could see. Judging by your comments about residues, that can only be a good sign.

Hi Peter:
Wow, I am honoured that a VW service department would read a post that I wrote for the purpose of getting direction about how to carry out a procedure. Please tell your service manager that if he or she has any suggestions or criticisms to improve the information contained in that post, to please write to me (click on my username to reveal my email address).
If you do get some residual lubricant dripping from the roof, you can remove it easily either with a cotton facecloth that has been dipped in windshield washer fluid (my favourite technique, because it is quick and easy), or, just wash the car with normal car wash soap and water - presuming, of course, that the drip is on the outside of the car!








Michael


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## pjgraham86 (Aug 10, 2006)

thanks guys - will post again after the next rain (this is Glasgow so it ain't far away !!)
I'll pass on your request to the Service Manager, Michael and ask him to e-mail any thoughts. 
On a very quick inspection of some of the seals tonight, I thought the rear sunroof seal still felt kinda rigid to the touch, whereas the side seals were nice and soft. But hey let's see how they perform - I'm just glad that the SM at the dealer is onside and keen to help.
Cheers
peter


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (pjgraham86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pjgraham86* »_On a very quick inspection of some of the seals tonight, I thought the rear sunroof seal still felt kinda rigid to the touch, whereas the side seals were nice and soft.

Hi Peter:
That's normal, in the sense that different seals have different amounts of 'give' in them. By example, the seal that runs vertically up the forward edge of the two rear side windows is probably the seal that has the greatest amount of 'give' to it - it needs to have a pretty wide tolerance. On the other hand, that rear roof seal (the one just above the back window) doesn't need much give at all, because the assembly tolerance for the two roof panels that it joins is very tight.
Be grateful you can expect rain in Glasgow - we had half a foot of _snow _in Switzerland today.








Michael


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## pjgraham86 (Aug 10, 2006)

Thanks for clarifying that Michael.


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## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

I just had a scary phone call with the parts department of Martens VW of Washington (DC). For grins, I was calling for the price of a bottle of Krytox. The guy at the parts desk quoted a price of around $71 and said he did not have any in stock. He then asked what it was for and I told him it was for the Eos roof seals. He then said that they used an aftermarket product





















He had no clue if that product contained krytox or was safe for Eos roof seals....
On another note, what, if anything, have you done to prepare the seals for the krytox? Washed them? Wiped the white stuff off, then apply? 
Richard


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (owr084)*

I am hoping that the price of the VW special lubricant (G 052 172 A1) will decrease in the near future... perhaps quite soon.
Michael


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (owr084)*


_Quote, originally posted by *owr084* »_On another note, what, if anything, have you done to prepare the seals for the krytox? Washed them? Wiped the white stuff off, then apply? 
Richard

When I did mine the car was brand new (1/2 hour after I took delivery) so I just applied the lubricant to the already clean, dry seals.
I don't have the owners manual in front of me, but I believe it recommends cleaning the seals before applying the lubricant. This to me would be common sense, it would be advantageous not to be working dirt and foriegn material into the pores of the seals.
I find that after washing the car the seals are wet enough that a quick wipe with a soft dry cloth will likely clean them up well enough. unless they have been subjected to unusual amounts of dirt and grime.
I also believe that part of the routine service schedule laid out in the owners manual calls for cleaning of the seals by the service tech at certain intervals. I can't confirm this right now, but will check the owners manual tonight.
Kevin


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_I don't have the owners manual in front of me, but I believe it recommends *cleaning the seals before applying the lubricant. *This to me would be common sense, it would be advantageous not to be working dirt and foreign material into the pores of the seals.
I find that after washing the car the seals are wet enough that *a quick wipe with a soft dry cloth will likely clean them up well enough* unless they have been subjected to unusual amounts of dirt and grime.

Kevin:
You are 100% correct with your observation. I am not sure if the owner manual actually suggests that you wipe the seals clean before you lubricate them, but the Eos Repair Manual makes this point very clear - it recommends that after washing the car, you first wipe the seal clean with a *damp*, lint-free cloth (e.g. a microfiber towel), then let the moisture evaporate, then lubricate the seal.
Thanks for bringing that to everyone's attention.
Michael


----------



## andythai (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Kevin,Michael hi I just want to ask if the cleaning process of the seals that you mention are also in the European manual and if certain weather affects the seals more or less(Hot or Cold climates)....Andy


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (andythai)*

Hi Andy:
I believe that the European owner manual also makes reference to maintaining the seals. Have a look in Section 3.2 (booklet 3.2) of the owner manual. The page number will likely be different than the page number in the North American manual, but the information will probably be there. In fact, I think someone has already posted the page number for the European English owner manual elsewhere in this same 4 page discussion.
Michael


----------



## andythai (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael, thanks I will have a look into it tonight.I have allready bought the lubricant, $95 here...Andy


----------



## GWMotley (Dec 31, 2006)

A while back, I posted that I have had my sunroof seal replaced already. It was being pinched near the driver front edge. Also I had a leak, dripping on my left thigh during the snow storms. The regional rep inspected it, drenched the car with water for 30mins. according to the dealer service manager, and guess what, NO LEAK!. However, this inspection was done when the outside temp was about 70. So, if it isn't leaking at the pinch site, do you guys think that when it is very cold, snowing, raining, that there may be so metal shrinkage somewhere else along the line that is responsible for the leak when it is cold? Also, I have lubed the seals like crazy. It hasn't leaked again yet since the sunroof stuck in the open position and I had to take it back for that. Maybe the sunroof was out of alignment, I just don't know.


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## nette (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*

I followed your directions and great pictures.
Used my $87.00 bottle of magic on all of the seals... stopping the roof operation midstream (like you said) even though the owner's manual said to never do that. See how much I trust you !!!!
Finally, the sunroof seal is not pinched anymore. When I purchased my Eos last August, the dealer said that was normal. Guess what... not so no more deformed seals!!
Keep up the good work. I really appreciate all of the valuable information.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (nette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nette* »_...stopping the roof operation midstream (like you said) even though the owner's manual said to never do that.

The warnings in the owner manual against stopping the roof midstream are there for safety reasons only, not for any engineering reasons related to the roof. If the roof is stopped halfway through its cycle, it will eventually move on its own accord (by gravity) to either the fully open or the fully closed position... unless, of course, you manage to stop it right at the 'sweet spot' in the middle and it can't decide which way to go.
The authors of the owner manual were concerned that someone might get injured if the roof started to close on its own, without any warning.
Which means - when you stop the roof halfway through its travel to lubricate it, be alert to the possibility of the roof settling on its own to either fully closed or fully open. My experience has been that if it does not start to move on its own within a couple of minutes, it probably won't move on its own. But, your mileage may vary, so be alert. It doesn't move suddenly - it moves kind of slowly, however, you don't want to have your arm or some other part of your body stuck in the wrong place if it starts to move.
Michael


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## LIEos (Jan 8, 2007)

*Grease vs. Oil*

A couple of weeks back, I lubricated my roof seals with the GPL205 Krytox grease (thanks of course to the valuable information found on this site). The results are as follows:
Almost immediately, the grease, which at least a little of remains on the seal, catches road and environment "dust", including fine road sand. This did not make me happy, as a) it looked bad, and b) I felt it would not be good for the seal for sand and dirt to be squeezed between the glass and rubber. I have wiped and washed the seals a few times since then, which removes most, but not all, of this held dirt.
I have also had one "pinch" since then, with very few openings (crappy Spring so far here in NY).
I will say that the stuff is pretty amazing. I kinda get the feeling it will never wear off, since it has retained the exact same hydrophobic properties as the day I put it on.
Haven't had any leaks before or since (except in my trunk, but that's in another post).
Just curious if anyone else has had the dirt-trapping problem with the grease, and any idea how to remedy. Do you think I simply left too much on? I did try to spread it thin with my finger...
Thanks.


----------



## Davy Wade (Apr 15, 2007)

*Re: Grease vs. Oil (LIEos)*

Do you think it was maybe because your application needed to dry for an hour (or some period of time) before you took the car out for a spin? I haven't used the lubrication yet so I'm not sure how "wet" it is to the touch right after application or an extended period afterwards. That's the only thing I could really think of.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Grease vs. Oil (LIEos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LIEos* »_...Almost immediately, the grease, which at least a little of remains on the seal, catches road and environment "dust", including fine road sand. This did not make me happy, as a) it looked bad, and b) I felt it would not be good for the seal for sand and dirt to be squeezed between the glass and rubber. I have wiped and washed the seals a few times since then, which removes most, but not all, of this held dirt.

Hi Daniel:
I think the specification for the lubricant calls for VW Part Number G 052 172 A1, which is an oil, not for a grease - perhaps this is the cause of your problem. The oil is pretty quickly absorbed into the seals of the car and it does not attract dust once it soaks in (about an hour or two).
We had a pretty lengthy discussion about different forms of lubricant that are sold under the trade name 'Krytox' a couple of months ago. 'Krytox' is a trade name for a very broad range of lubricants made by DuPont - for the Eos, we need to use the specific lubricant that is provided by Volkswagen, not any other lubricant that might be sold under the trade name 'Krytox', and most especially not a grease.
Michael
*VW Special Lubricant Part Number G 052 172 A1*


----------



## kpiskin (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: Grease vs. Oil (PanEuropean)*

Can we make this topic a sticky? I keep referring back to it and have to search for it each time. I'm sure this is of great value to the other forum members also.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Grease vs. Oil (kpiskin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kpiskin* »_Can we make this topic a sticky? I keep referring back to it and have to search for it each time. I'm sure this is of great value to the other forum members also.

Now would be an excellent opportunity to familiarize yourself with the "Table of contents" sticky thread at the top. An enormous amount of volunteer work was put into creating and maintaining it, and it provides a wealth of information. It will open a new world of understanding to you. You will find this thread there as well. Its in the 4th/technical category. Your searching days are over.




_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 12:43 PM 5-10-2007_


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## kpiskin (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: Grease vs. Oil (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

I guess that's a "no" oder "nein" lol


----------



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Grease vs. Oil (kpiskin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kpiskin* »_I guess that's a "no" oder "nein" lol

This thread was sticky at one point in time, but PanEuropean brought up a good point. If threads are sticky too long, people tend to ignore them...you know, familiarity breeds contempt. Another problem is that sticky threads do not move as people add new posts, so your odds of getting a good response diminishes. Threads have gone in and out of "sticky" status to keep things interesting. Maybe it will be sticky again, who knows.



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 1:39 PM 5-11-2007_


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## kpiskin (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: Grease vs. Oil (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

I only asked, it's okay. No need for further explanation. I thought it was a good idea, but I do not run the board. This is free to me, so obviously I can live with it however you guys set it up.


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## rainZn (May 13, 2007)

*questions about lubrication*

hey guys,
i've just registered here a few minutes ago and wanted to thank you for the great article about the treading of seals.
in the version of the user manual you get here with your eos, there's nothing mentioned about how to tread your seals. and this part number isn't written down in the whole user manual.
i've also lubricated my seals with this volkswagen oil and that's where my questions start:
-) on one of the photos after finishing lubrication you've got this bottle half empty - after i was done, there was only missing little from the oil. my seals are really "wet" though so how did you work with this?
-)also you wrote that it would be best to leave the car open for some hours so the seals can suck in the oil. i was looking at my seals a few minutes ago and there have almost past 32 hours since lubricating but my seals don't seem to suck up this stuff completely, they're still wet and leaving stripes to my windows. have i done something wrong??
maybe i'm a little bit too concerned about this, but hopefully you can give me some answers to my questions








thanks,
rainZn


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## kpiskin (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: questions about lubrication (rainZn)*

I don't know how they used so much lubricant either because I coated everything and only used about 1/8 of a bottle.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How to solve (nette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nette* »_Used my $87.00 bottle of magic on all of the seals...

Effective April 1 2007, it is now a $51 bottle of magic. VW of America was thoughtful enough to take action on the suggestion made by of all of us here in the Vortex Eos forum to 'do their best to lower the price of the stuff'. VW has to buy it from DuPont, so, they can't drop the price any lower. To the best of my knowledge, they are now selling this stuff to the dealer network at their cost - in other words, they are not making any profit on it. The Eos support team at VW of America realizes that they lower they can get the cost of this lubricant, the more likely it will be that everyone (VW dealers and Eos owners) will use it as instructed - and that, we all know, will prevent a whole lot of problems.
Michael


----------



## rainZn (May 13, 2007)

*Re: questions about lubrication (kpiskin)*

yes, that's about the same amount i have used.
and how long did it take until the oil was sucked up?


----------



## kpiskin (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: questions about lubrication (rainZn)*

I actually used a sponge to try to make it all even looking, so it's less shiny too. The seals are all black and do have a little sheen, but not too much. I only paid $58.83 for my bottle through the dealership.


----------



## rainZn (May 13, 2007)

*Re: questions about lubrication (kpiskin)*

i paid about 45 Euro (~ 60.90 US Dollar) for my 30ml bottle
tomorrow it should rain so i will see if there is any difference.


----------



## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

Last week I lubricated with the 205 grease, because that is what aI had. I do not have direct experience with the oil soi don't have a direct comparison. the grease was not as messy as I thought that it would be but there is some rgrease at the top of the windows. At the time I tried to wipe off excess I will probably try again soon.
There roof was in stacked position on top of the car. In one of my less bright moments I manually lowered the panel with the rear window in place from a stacked position. This put some panels out of order andf the roof would not operate. I had the car towed to VW (Trunk was swung back). VW was able to move each panel independently to get them back in sequence. 
Paul


----------



## rainZn (May 13, 2007)

*Re: Grease vs. Oil (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
The oil is pretty quickly absorbed into the seals of the car and it does not attract dust once it soaks in (about an hour or two


but that's the problem i have.
i used the oil written in the manual, but it does not soak in completely!
the seals are still "wet" and on some places like on the left and right rear window it seems like the oil is dropping down because it won't soak in.
i really haven't used that huge amount of oil.


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Grease vs. Oil (rainZn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rainZn* »_
but that's the problem i have.
i used the oil written in the manual, but it does not soak in completely!
the seals are still "wet" and on some places like on the left and right rear window it seems like the oil is dropping down because it won't soak in.
i really haven't used that huge amount of oil.

I used about 1/3 bottle when I did my seals, but I did pretty much _every_ seal on the car, including the trunk lid seal and the lower and outer door seals. (some of these are not necessary to do)
I applied the oil about 3 months ago, and although I have not experienced any dripping, I have noticed that the seals continue to have an oily film. I think this is normal.
If you used very little oil, and it is wet to the point it is almost dripping or running, I'm wondering if your seals were already well lubricated and did not need to lubricated so soon?
I have found that after a day or two the majority of the oil soaks in, and just a film is left on the seals.
If you think they are too wet, just wipe them off gently with a soft, lint free, cloth.
Kevin


----------



## rainZn (May 13, 2007)

*Re: Grease vs. Oil (just4fun)*

i have got my eos for 8 months now and nobody cared about the seals until last weekend.
some of my seals had been changed and replaced because of leaking when the car was standing in the rain for too long or washing it. (this was a problem since i've gotten the car







)
so i think not every problem can be solved by lubricating the seals, but i thought it would not be that bad to try this because my seals looked like the ones on the photos (white and hard) but "rehydrated" very fast.
after some thin lines on the seals and working with my fingers they were done.
so now i'm wondering why they don't even seem to suck up this little amount of oil completely.


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Grease vs. Oil (rainZn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rainZn* »_i have got my eos for 8 months now and nobody cared about the seals until last weekend.
some of my seals had been changed and replaced because of leaking when the car was standing in the rain for too long or washing it. (this was a problem since i've gotten the car







)
so i think not every problem can be solved by lubricating the seals, but i thought it would not be that bad to try this because my seals looked like the ones on the photos (white and hard) but "rehydrated" very fast.
after some thin lines on the seals and working with my fingers they were done.
so now i'm wondering why they don't even seem to suck up this little amount of oil completely.


Hmmm.. That is interesting. Your seals definitely were showing signs of requiring lubrication.
When I open the roof, and look along the seal that runs the top length of the windshield, there is a shiny, oily strip down the center the full length of the seal. (where the roof panel contacts the seal). This seal is still "wet" after 3 months.
Around the windows, when first applied you can see the wet oil under the glass, after a few days the wet look disappears, but the windows still get an oily film around the outer edges, and require regular cleaning.
Does this seem to be about how oily your seals remain? Or are they "dripping" wet.
Kevin


----------



## rainZn (May 13, 2007)

*Re: Grease vs. Oil (just4fun)*

the seal on the roof you're talking about looks fine i think (still oily but not wet - but it catches small parts of dust - is this also happening with your seals?)
the windows also need to be cleaned, but i know that's just the way it goes when you're working with oily substances.
the main "problem" i have is here (where the red lines or spots are the oil is running down on the window from the seal on both sides - still after 2 days):



_Modified by rainZn at 8:36 PM 5-14-2007_


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Grease vs. Oil (rainZn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rainZn* »_the seal on the roof you're talking about looks fine i think (still oily but not wet - but it catches small parts of dust - is this also happening with your seals?)
the windows also need to be cleaned, but i know that's just the way it goes when you're working with oily substances.
the main "problem" i have is here (where the red lines or spots are the oil is running down on the window from the seal on both sides - still after 2 days):


_Modified by rainZn at 8:36 PM 5-14-2007_

Yes, dust, etc. does tend to collect a bit on the top seals.
No, I have never had oil "run" down the window from the area you have identified.
I'm not sure why the seal would not be absorbing the majority of the oil you applied.
Kevin


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Grease vs. Oil (rainZn)*

Hi Rainer:
I found that I had to 'massage' the seal a bit to cause it to absorb the lubricant. In other words, if I just put the lubricant onto the seal and left it there, it ran off the car, and not too much went into the seal. But, if I applied the lubricant, then rubbed the seal for a minute or so, I could feel that the seal was getting softer and more pliable all the time. I considered this to be evidence that the seal was absorbing lubricant.
But - it will not voluntarily absorb the lubricant, the same way a biscotti will absorb coffee. It is more like what you have to do when you are applying a marinade to a steak - you kind of have to knead it and poke it a bit, to convince the liquid to go into the steak.








Michael


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## andythai (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)*

Michael,where have the very valuable and usefull pictures of how to lubricate the roof seals gone


----------



## rainZn (May 13, 2007)

*Re: How to solve (andythai)*

i have copied the pictures and instructions to a pdf-file just before they weren't available anymore.
unfortunately i don't own a premium account at rapidshare so maybe someone can upload this file somewhere else?
http://rapidshare.com/files/33....html


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (rainZn)*

fabulous!! I printed out the instructions, but the text between the images always wanted to go AFTER an image, even though it referred to the image following it (ie. it was BEFORE the proper image)
The PDF really organizes the text and images (although it *is* a lot of pages-- no clipping or resizing images)
Thanks!
You might be able to host it at TheSamba.com, since it is in effect a freely distributed technical reference.
(it *is freely distributed* right Michael? We have the right to re-publish, distribute, reproduce, maybe add our own tips, etc those instructions??)
William


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## andythai (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (rainZn)*

Rainer, thanks alot for that I have also copied it...perfect http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GWMotley (Dec 31, 2006)

I'm still having leaks. After takint the car to another dealer, this mechanic did a great job of aligning the top. This top seals have never looked better. I thought the leak should stop. Guess what! It now leaks on both sides. I'm begining to think the problem may be in the header seal between the pillars underneath the steel structure, just can't see where the water is seeping in at.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (GWMotley)*

Everybody in here follows the seal maintenance and leakage issue pretty closely, and I have a thought on the matter...
There have been rumors of design change/improvement in the seals, which may be a change in physical shape, but it might also be a change to the coating. I took a test drive recently, and the vertical window seals on the car I drove looked like the coating was somewhat smoother than on the first Eos I had seen in August 2006. Which gave me this idea...
*I think it would be a good idea for all Eos owners participating in this forum, particularly those dealing with leakage issues, to put the date of manufacture of their Eos in the signature line of their profile so we can see if problematic cars tend to fall within certain dates.*
anybody else think that's a good idea?


----------



## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_
*I think it would be a good idea for all Eos owners participating in this forum, particularly those dealing with leakage issues, to put the date of manufacture of their Eos in the signature line of their profile so we can see if problematic cars tend to fall within certain dates.*
anybody else think that's a good idea?


I will create such a signature line as you suggest, as long as I can figure out how to do so.







Edit: Did it!

_Modified by SoCalMan at 8:05 AM 5-25-2007_


_Modified by SoCalMan at 8:07 AM 5-25-2007_


----------



## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: (SoCalMan)*

Added Link to PDF to the first post due to problems with HOSTDUB servers


----------



## BigFoot-74205 (Jan 26, 2006)

Michael & everyone else,
I was just wondering, is G 052 172.A1 VW's international product code for Krytox, or is it just for North America?
Damir


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (BigFoot-74205)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BigFoot-74205* »_Michael & everyone else,
I was just wondering, is G 052 172.A1 VW's international product code for Krytox, or is it just for North America?
Damir

The part number should be consistent throughout the world.
Here's the discussion from the German Beetle blog from September 2005 discussing Volkswagen part numbers and Dupont equivalent part numbers.
http://www.beetle-forum.de/Kry....html
And here's a google translation of the same discussion for those interested. As you can see they were trying to buy directly to save some money.
http://translate.google.com/tr...3Dall


----------



## BigFoot-74205 (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Jeremiah,
Thanks for the reply. The thing is, I was at my dealer yesterday and all the part numbers are in the NNN-NNN-NNN format. They're basically not sure what to order (I want Krytox of course). A while ago they were offering me a silicon based lubricant (I didn't buy it). We found one product which based on the description should be it, but we're not 100%. The product code was 000-096-331. Oh well, I'll keep digging and I don't find any useful info I'll just order that and make sure it's actually Krytox once they get it in.
Damir


----------



## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: (BigFoot-74205)*

I would think the proper number to use in your part of the world would be in your owners manual.


----------



## BigFoot-74205 (Jan 26, 2006)

Erik,
That's the thing, it doesn't actually state a part number in the manual. Just to use the proper lubricant and that it must not be silicon based.
Damir


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (BigFoot-74205)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BigFoot-74205* »_ ...I was at my dealer yesterday and all the part numbers are in the NNN-NNN-NNN format. 

Hi Damir:
That statement is correct for parts that are actually attached to the car, or parts that form some part of the complete vehicle, but it does not apply to consumables such as lubricants and chemicals.
If the parts specialist at your dealer launches the 'ETKA' electronic parts catalog application, then goes to the drop-down menu at the top and chooses "Special Catalogs", then from that menu chooses "Chemical Materials", he or she will then be able to find the special lubricant listed there with the same PN as we have provided on the first post of this thread.
Hope this helps,
Michael


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## BigFoot-74205 (Jan 26, 2006)

Michael,
Great, thanks for the info. I'm going to my dealer on Tuesday so I'll ask them about it then.
Damir


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## rainZn (May 13, 2007)

as some of you know i've also tried to use this special lubricant offered by vw.
unfortunately the only effects of this were some windows full of this stuff.
i really was upset about the quality of this car, because since the day i've gotten it (october 06), there have always been water leaks, every rain or car wash.
after complaining at the central office of vw in my country they sent someone to pick up my car and get it right to their garage.
then for two weeks i heard absolutely nothing about my car or the progress of their work.
yesterday i got a call from my local dealer, informing me that my car was ready to hit the roads again and that he doesn't have a clue what they did.
i noticed that there were no new seals or any other visible changes, so i really wondered what they were doing to my car.
today there has been constant and intense rain and i had to park my car outside for at least 8 hours.
i noticed that i could hear the wet street louder in my car through the windows than before.
so i was really nervous when i got back.
and then to my complete surprise the car was totally dry for the first time inside.
no water coming out of the front speakers or running down at the rear windows.
no dripping water from the inside of the roof to the seat.
so i really, really hope that there will never ever be issues according to leakage with my car.
hopefully it will also be leak-proofed after driving with the top down and closing it again.
so, that's my story so far.
maybe there's hope for all of us wjo are struggling with leakage problems!


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (rainZn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rainZn* »_
so, that's my story so far.
maybe there's hope for all of us wjo are struggling with leakage problems!

Rainer,
Good to hear the problem may finally be sorted. Certainly hope you can enjoy the car trouble free for many years.
Sure would be nice if they would give you some details on the repair/adjustment that was done.
Kevin


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (rainZn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rainZn* »_,,,maybe there's hope for all of us who are struggling with leakage problems!

Hi Rainer:
There's always hope!








I'm happy to hear that your local importer got things sorted out properly for you.
Michael


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## BigFoot-74205 (Jan 26, 2006)

Well I went to Austria to do some shopping today (I live 30 minutes from the border). I also went to the VW/Audi/Porsche dealer in Klagenfurt to get some Krytox. My german is pretty bad, but from what I understood is that the A2 Krytox has replaced the A1 one. Anyway, the little 100ml aerosol can was 54€ (about $70). Ouch! 
Damir


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## rainZn (May 13, 2007)

*Re: (BigFoot-74205)*

well i've got the a1-krytox (lubricant) from my dealer.
its an 30ml bottle and it cost 45€ back then.
now the dealer offers an so called summer-fit service, where they take care about the seals and look if the drains are plugged etc.
this also costs about 50€, but you don't have to bother if you make something wrong with the positions of the roof.


----------



## mauleskyrocket (Apr 22, 2006)

*EOS-Leaks*

Is there any plan by VW to address this problem. We have a volvo hardtop convertible and a MB hardtop convertible and these do not leak and need not be treated. Will the 08 still be like this?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: EOS-Leaks (mauleskyrocket)*

It's not a "problem". The material that the seals are made of is such that it needs to be periodically lubricated to give best performance. There are other components on the car that also need to be periodically lubricated.
Michael


----------



## mconfer (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: EOS-Leaks (PanEuropean)*

To many of us, yes, it's a problem. I hope VW switches to whatever material Volvo, BMW and/or MB use on their hardtop convertible seals by the 2010 model year so I can consider buying EOS again!
Martha


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: EOS-Leaks (mconfer)*

Hi Martha:
It might actually work the other way around: Perhaps the material that VW uses for the roof seals is a more advanced material that provides better performance (better noise reduction, better air and water tightness, longer life), but requires periodic lubrication in order to perform at its best.
In other words, it could be analogous to extended oil change intervals: In the old days, we had to change the oil every 5,000 miles, but we could use any old $5 a quart oil. Now, we have extended oil change intervals (every 10,000 miles), but in order to achieve this improvement, we need to use a special specification of oil that is more expensive.
What I am trying to say (not sure if I am doing it well or not) is that the different roof seal material used on the Eos might actually be a benefit and not a disadvantage.








Michael


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: EOS-Leaks (mconfer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mconfer* »_To many of us, yes, it's a problem. I hope VW switches to whatever material Volvo, BMW and/or MB use on their hardtop convertible seals by the 2010 model year so I can consider buying EOS again!
Martha


Top seal lubrication is not something unique to the Eos. Any owner of a retractable hardtop who is not maintaining their seals with Krytox is in fact neglecting their car. 
Convertibles, weather soft or hard top, are always more expensive to own both in terms of labor, and materials needed to look after the special needs of a convertible top. 
Here's just one example of Krytox discussion on a Mercedes SLK forum. Other groups are aware of this issue, and the awareness is constantly growing. 
http://www.mercedesforum.com/m...m.htm
*Don't confuse the fact that we in here (the Vortex Eos forum) are ahead of most others in terms of understanding proper vehicle maintenance, with it being some sort of deficiency of the Eos...because it very much is NOT. For those not interested in the additional demands of convertible ownership, I would encourage you to explore a fixed roof vehicle.*




_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 10:10 AM 7-28-2007_


----------



## shorenuf (May 4, 2007)

*Re: EOS-Leaks (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_
*Don't confuse the fact that we in here (the Vortex Eos forum) are ahead of most others in terms of understanding proper vehicle maintenance, with it being some sort of deficiency of the Eos...because it very much is NOT. For those not interested in the additional demands of convertible ownership, I would encourage you to explore a fixed roof vehicle.*

Well, sorry to disagree with you somewhat. I have a 9 year old VW Cabrio. The entire car is in excellent condition including everything about the convertible top. I have not once done anything to the seals on this car. I have never asked the dealer to do anything to the seals on this car. I have the car detailed twice a year. I have never asked the detailer to deal with the seals (but maybe they do). My car does not squeak, my car does not leak, my seals are not dried out, crushed, or rotted in any way.
I also had 2 VW Cabriolets before this. Same story.
So now I'm spending nearly $40,000 on a new car that requires do-it-yourself maintenance. I find that annoying, as I imagine do many other people who were not expecting that hands-on additional upkeep.
Of course I fully intend to follow a Krytox lubrication schedule for my new Eos -- I would like to keep it for many years as well. I hope to have it done at the dealers twice a year with oil changes and twice a year with detailing. More often if warranted. I will pay for the service.
I agree with you -- maintenance is not a problem. This particular requirement certainly came as a surprise to me, however. Doing it myself is a most unwelcome prospect.


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## bjorngra (Jul 22, 2006)

*Maintaining the seals*

Hi,
My Eos is almost a year old and I used twice the VW Lubricant spray (G052 172 A2). I used the whole bottle for a single time!! Today I will start with the G052 172 A1. I think that it will work better when I see the pictures here. I had to pay 40,- Euro's for the 30ml bottle at the VW-dealer.
2 Hours later
I'm ready! This stuf is much better than the lubricant spray. I used about 1/4 of the bottle. And I have done everything. I put the lubricant on my finger and then on the seals. Perhaps that's why I used less than in the article in this post.
It's so simple to bring it on, that I will do it 3-4 times a year. I think that's always better.

Bjorn


_Modified by bjorngra at 2:59 AM 8-5-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: EOS-Leaks (shorenuf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shorenuf* »_So now I'm spending nearly $40,000 on a new car that requires do-it-yourself maintenance...

Hi Roberta:
I can comprehend your perspective, and why you would believe that a premium vehicle such as an Eos ought to be 'maintenance free' outside of normal scheduled service, but think of it this way: There are a lot of other premium objects that you can purchase that require the owner to carry out small maintenance tasks from time to time in order to maintain the object in top working order, or to ensure the longest possible service life from the object. By example, if you buy a Rolex watch, the instruction booklet will ask you to wash it thoroughly under lukewarm water with a soft brush every 3 months or so - this is to prevent dirt that accumulates in the watch bracelet from causing excessive wear. If you buy a suede garment, you will need to brush it from time to time to keep the nap up, otherwise you won't get full service life from the garment.
I think that the requirement to lubricate the Eos roof seals is quite reasonable, but perhaps VW could have handled the matter better by giving each purchaser a bottle of lubricant and an instruction book at the time they take delivery of the car. This is what my VW dealer is now doing - they buy a bottle of lubricant for each new Eos, use half of it to prep the car the day before delivery, and give the remaining half a bottle to the customer when they pick up the car, along with an explanation of what the lubrication requirement is.
Older vehicles that used a different type of rubber seal, such as your Cabrios, didn't have the same requirements to maintain the seal, but they didn't have seals that were as effective (weight, small size, sound and water sealing capability in a small form factor) as the Eos seals.
Michael


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## muggo11 (Oct 2, 2006)

Had a small, slow dripping leak during the torrential rains here in Orlando (at the doorpost on driver's side). . . Got the lubricant from the dealership and it took a painless 45 minutes to use the photos and put it everywhere. . . No biggie. . .used almost half of the bottle. BTW, I've had the car since last September and it now has 14000 miles on it with NO problems. Top down every day except when it rains ALL day. . . I LOVE MY EOS.


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## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (muggo11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *muggo11* »_Had a small, slow dripping leak during the torrential rains here in Orlando (at the doorpost on driver's side). . . Got the lubricant from the dealership and it took a painless 45 minutes to use the photos and put it everywhere. . . No biggie. . .used almost half of the bottle. BTW, I've had the car since last September and it now has 14000 miles on it with NO problems. Top down every day except when it rains ALL day. . . I LOVE MY EOS. 

Margot, glad to hear all is well, we need to get together again for some drinks downtown and catch up







(along with any interested Central FL Eos owners) I now work from home so I have only put on about 500 miles since April, but I enjoy the minutes I get with mine. I do feel guilty about running the air conditioning with the top down during this recent bout of hot weather but I need to enjoy the top down whenever possible. I too had leaks on the A pillar in the recent downpours, so I guess I have to place an order for a bottle of the liquid gold.


_Modified by flheat at 2:41 PM 8-5-2007_


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## shorenuf (May 4, 2007)

*Re: EOS-Leaks (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
I can comprehend your perspective, and why you would believe that a premium vehicle such as an Eos ought to be 'maintenance free' outside of normal scheduled service, but think of it this way: There are a lot of other premium objects that you can purchase that require the owner to carry out small maintenance tasks from time to time in order to maintain the object in top working order, or to ensure the longest possible service life from the object. By example, if you buy a Rolex watch, the instruction booklet will ask you to wash it thoroughly under lukewarm water with a soft brush every 3 months or so - this is to prevent dirt that accumulates in the watch bracelet from causing excessive wear. . . . .I think that the requirement to lubricate the Eos roof seals is quite reasonable . . . Older vehicles that used a different type of rubber seal, such as your Cabrios, didn't have the same requirements to maintain the seal, but they didn't have seals that were as effective (weight, small size, sound and water sealing capability in a small form factor) as the Eos seals.
Michael

Michael,
Thank you for your detailed answer. If I try to respond in kind I will start to whine and sound spoiled. This is a car and I am a girl. When I started driving, hands on maintenance meant taking the car to a full service gas station, a full service car wash, and a dealer for oil changes and repairs. Pumping my own gas is about as hands on as I want to be. Anyway, I thought modern technology was supposed to simplify one's life, not add to one's workload -- that is really my complaint.
Frankly, it is even more disconcerting that VW wasn't doing more testing of the AC equipment while they were developing and testing those space age seals. A potential problem for ALL the Eoses they have put on the road so far -- YIKES!
Well -- that is for another thread, I know.
Do we know yet if VW Krytox is 100% Dupont Krytox or vice versa?
(BTW -- I have been wearing the same watch daily for the last 20 years -- it is only a Concord, but it looks like new.)
Roberta


_Modified by shorenuf at 11:54 PM 8-5-2007_


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## kluski44 (Jun 11, 2007)

I read thru here real quick to get the p/n. I saw a link check for current pricing. The krylox A1 is only US $38.34.
http://www.trademotion.com/par...13714
Much better than when the thread started at $70-80


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (kluski44)*

Krytox or not, the build quality of the early model eos has been suspect. Pinched seals, window misalignment, and water collection in the trunk and roof mechanism are prime examples. I don't mind a little bit of preventative maintenance. It's the stuff I can't fix that is disturbing.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (aflaedge)*

TB 61 07 04 for your viewing pleasure.
































Kevin










_Modified by just4fun at 2:03 PM 9-11-2007_


----------



## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (just4fun)*

Any TB's for this?








JK.
This has gotta be an isolated incident.


----------



## dcoz (Aug 10, 2007)

*Re: (aflaedge)*

I can see something got wet but can you elaborate on what this is?


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## shorenuf (May 4, 2007)

*Re: (dcoz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcoz* »_I can see something got wet but can you elaborate on what this is?
The post about this is near the bottom of this page -- http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1


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## chomeur (Aug 1, 2007)

It's worth noting that this new TSB apparently specifies a different type of lubricant than the G 052 172 A1 discussed in the owner's manual. After the unseasonably early rainstorm in Northern California this past weekend exposed the fact that my A-pillar was leaking, I took my car in today and, apparently based on this new TSB, the dealer is ordering new seals for the driver's side of the car and they also need a new adhesive and lubricant for them. Not sure I can get any more specific info out my dealer though. It'd be interesting to know if VW has decided there is something better to use than "krytox"...
David Z.


----------



## Sammy (Aug 27, 2000)

*New package*

My EOS came with the following package in the glove compartment. It looks like krytox imbedded in a cloth. It says it is good for one application. The only thing which looks like a part number is 000 096 331


----------



## Dime-a-Dozen (Sep 29, 2007)

*Re: (muggo11)*

Hey (PE) Michael,
Brilliant post by you! The most informative post I've seen in any forum for any topic! Great photos and instructions. You cannot go wrong!








I have been reading up on the Eos, and I plan to test-drive one shortly. I will just have to decide which one... the 2.0TDI or 2.0FSI.








Anyway, due to the Eos being a hard-top convertible (huge bonus for obvious reasons), it's obvious that the whole mechanism/seals need more care than a leather roof. I remember my old '68 VW Beetle, and it doesn't compare.
Joe.


----------



## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: (aflaedge)*

Chris
Looking at where that water got in I'm wondering if the problem is the window seal at the bottom rather than the roof. Have you tried flooding the rear windows to see if water is getting in where the window meets the body.. I thiink you could unhook the carpet from the holder at the back of the trunk and get a light in there from the trunk while doing it...
-Mark


_Modified by mark_d_drake at 6:21 PM 9-29-2007_


----------



## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: New package (Sammy)*

I like the look of this kit...


----------



## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (mark_d_drake)*

The EOS has been in the shop for the past 2+ weeks so I'll give it a shot when they are done replace all of the seals and doing all of the TB's related to the roof. I knew you could remove that bit of carpet since that is how I traced the water from the spare tire well up into the trunk and into that pocket on the side of the car. I don't quite know how I could illuminate that portion of the car and have it be useful unless I can set up a remote camera. I don't particularly enjoy the thought of climbing into my trunk and closing the lid. Perhaps if I just leave the trunk open and not use so much water that it over flows the trunk trough.


----------



## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: (aflaedge)*

I was thinking of a video camera and light....


----------



## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (mark_d_drake)*

Is anyone else waiting on "National Backorder" to get this TB resolved? I guess they didn't gauge the supply and demand quite right if they don't have a single one of the kits associated with the TB in the States. How long does it take to ship stuff from Germany any way?


----------



## dct82me (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: New package (Sammy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sammy* »_My EOS came with the following package in the glove compartment. It looks like krytox imbedded in a cloth. It says it is good for one application. The only thing which looks like a part number is 000 096 331


Sammy:
Is that what that is? LOL I've had my car for about 1 month. That
envelope-looking thing has been sitting on my dining room table for
a while. 
Hi, all. I'm a newbie. So how often should the seals be lubricated?
I haven't had any problems thus far. I did come across one issue,
but that was _I believe_ the hand-wash car wash that I frequent
didn't shut the door completely, leaving that little gap in the window
when it went through. My seat, unbeknownst to me, was a little damp
in the cracks and, well, that left a little dampness in _my_ crack







LOL 
Stephanie

_Modified by dct82me at 7:44 PM 10-5-2007_


_Modified by dct82me at 7:45 PM 10-5-2007_


----------



## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: New package (dct82me)*

Stephanie
Welcome to the forun.. Yes this is for lubricating the seals, is your car USA or Canada spec (CA could be interpreted either way). 
I'm want to get my hands on one these packages to see how well it works, it it's California I'll be bugging Brendan.
-Mark


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: New package (dct82me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dct82me* »_
Hi, all. I'm a newbie. So how often should the seals be lubricated?
Stephanie


Hi Stephanie, welcome to the forum,
How often the seals require treatment is yet to be determined, and will likely vary from Eos to Eos depending on several factors.
Here are my observations for our Eos:
I lubricated the seals the day I brought the car home from the dealership, Feb 19/07. Since then I did a partial application to the exterior roof seals only (the ones around the outside of the sunroof and the fixed glass roof panel). That would have been near the end of May or early June I think.
A couple weeks ago I washed the car and was thinking the seals should probably have another application of lubricant, but when I checked the seals they were all fine, still soft and supple and slightly "shiny" looking.
So one thorough application and a touch up in 7.5 - 8 months and all is still good, but.....
Our Eos hasn't seen a lot of use yet (just approaching 8000 km/5000 mi.), it is garaged most of the time, we live in a fairly temperate climate, and this summer, with the exception of July, we had a fair bit of rain so it wasn't very dusty for the most part.
Owners that use their cars as daily drivers, live in hot and/or dusty climates, or are exposed to industrial pollutants, etc. may find it necessary to treat the seals more often.
In general though, I think most of the feedback from forum members is suggesting that once or twice a year is all that will be required under most operating conditions.
Kevin








PS great color choice 


_Modified by just4fun at 10:01 PM 10-5-2007_


----------



## dct82me (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: New package (mark_d_drake)*

My bad! I've modified my profile. 

_Quote, originally posted by *mark_d_drake* »_Stephanie
Welcome to the forun.. Yes this is for lubricating the seals, is your car USA or Canada spec (CA could be interpreted either way). 

That would be Pomona, California (Los Angeles).

_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_
PS great color choice 


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by dct82me at 10:44 PM 10-6-2007_


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: New package (dct82me)*

See TB 61 07 08
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3484059
Kevin


----------



## seakayfl (Jan 16, 2007)

I had 10,000 mile service done on my car Tuesday, and also had them check my seals for a small leak in the front on both sides. They realigned the seals and told me if they used the Krytox it would make the seals leak more. Has anyone else been told this, and is it true? Both of the tech had been to training for the EOS, and said this is what they were told.


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (seakayfl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *seakayfl* »_I had 10,000 mile service done on my car Tuesday, and also had them check my seals for a small leak in the front on both sides. They realigned the seals and told me if they used the Krytox it would make the seals leak more. Has anyone else been told this, and is it true? Both of the tech had been to training for the EOS, and said this is what they were told.

This is the first I've heard of this.
TB 61 07 08 was released on October 2nd, 2007 and is intended to inform VW technicians about the proper procedure for lubricating seals.
It specifically states "to reduce noise fron convertible top operation , water/air intrusion due to dry seals" (i.e. leaks)
You would think this is the most up-to-date information from VW.
Kevin


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## dct82me (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: New package (just4fun)*

Well, Kevin, looks like I'm gonna have to inspect my seals. I got my
car washed today, and this is the first time I noticed water - ugh!! It
was on the driver's side top pillar (I guess you call it). It's where the
black cloth is. I'll have to purchase that Krytox. Reading all of the
past posts, I'm on overload regarding this topic. It looks like I'll have
to print out the pics (instructions) on applying the lubricant. 
Stephanie


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: New package (dct82me)*

Hi Stephanie,
Don't let yourself get too worked up about lubricating the seals, it really is a lot simpler than all the "tech" talk makes it sound.
After washing your Eos, was there water inside the car? or was it just sitting on top of the seal near the top of the pillar?
Kevin


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## dct82me (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: New package (just4fun)*

Like I had stated, that horizontal pillar above my left shoulder was
wet (almost soaked, I'd say). There were water drops dripping down
onto my arm, and I also saw that the floormat was wet -- that's how
much moisture there was. I'm going to purchase the lubricant and
apply it to the seals (there was no moisture on the passenger's side).
Also, where is it I can find the build date, as someone on the forum
had mentioned before? Thanks.
Stephanie


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## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: New package (dct82me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dct82me* »_
Also, where is it I can find the build date, as someone on the forum
had mentioned before? Thanks.
Stephanie

It will be on the vehicle info plate inside the driver's door below the B pillar.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: New package (dct82me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dct82me* »_Like I had stated, that horizontal pillar above my left shoulder was
wet (almost soaked, I'd say). There were water drops dripping down
onto my arm, and I also saw that the floormat was wet -- that's how
much moisture there was. I'm going to purchase the lubricant and
apply it to the seals (there was no moisture on the passenger's side).
Also, where is it I can find the build date, as someone on the forum
had mentioned before? Thanks.
Stephanie

Hi Stephanie,
I just wasn't 100% clear on your first explanation, but by what you describe above, that is definitely not right. Hopefully lubricating the seals will fix things up for you.
Kevin


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## dct82me (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: New package (SoCalMan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoCalMan* »_
It will be on the vehicle info plate inside the driver's door below the B pillar.

Thanks!!

_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_
I just wasn't 100% clear on your first explanation, but by what you describe above, that is definitely not right. Hopefully lubricating the seals will fix things up for you.

Yeah, I'll have to do it shortly. Right now I just spent A LOT more time
in my car on a commute from Vegas home b/c of these fires around
here. They closed the main artery from Vegas to L.A. (15 fwy), so I had
to take an alt. route 3-hours outta the way. Let's just say that my
commute home took an extra 5 HOURS!!!! I had gotten a root canal
done at a buddy's dental ofc. At one point during the night my meds
had kicked in so my dad drove a portion of the way. At that time I
"attempted" to lie down in the backseat. I'm 5-10 ... LMAO!!!!!!!!


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: New package (dct82me)*

Sounds about as bad as a day can get. 
I heard on the news today that the wildfires have displaced over 250,000 people and destroyed 700 homes. That is a horrific impact they are having on many people.
Kevin


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## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: New package (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_Sounds about as bad as a day can get. 
I heard on the news today that the wildfires have displaced over 250,000 people and destroyed 700 homes. That is a horrific impact they are having on many people.
Kevin










As of yesterday, a million people displaced, mostly in San Diego County. As of 8:10 am PDT, the sky is a strange orange color. Air smells of smoke. Dirt and ash everywhere. Some fires contained, some not.







The good news is the high wind is virtually gone which should help the fire fighters. I don't know how they do what they do. And the high pressure weather system is breaking down...cooler weather and an on-shore breeze expected in the next 12 hours.
Our Eos, even though garaged, has a layer of dust she never had before. A good bath is in order soon.


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: New package (dct82me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dct82me* »_Well, Kevin, looks like I'm gonna have to inspect my seals. I got my car washed today, and this is the first time I noticed water - ugh!! It was on the driver's side top pillar (I guess you call it). It's where the black cloth is. I'll have to purchase that Krytox.

First, my sympathies to all of you in Southern California. I'm happy to hear that things appear to be improving today.
Second, Stephanie, did you have your car washed at the hand wash you mentioned earlier? You probably know already, but just in case you don't, you shouldn't use an automatic car wash that directs high-pressure water against the seals. Even if they're properly maintained, water may get through in that situation.


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## nachtmusik (Aug 1, 2006)

*Re: New package (flubber)*

to the OP: thanks a lot for this post. i'm going to forward the pdf you've attached to my dad! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dct82me (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: New package (flubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flubber* »_
Second, Stephanie, did you have your car washed at the hand wash you mentioned earlier? You probably know already, but just in case you don't, you shouldn't use an automatic car wash that directs high-pressure water against the seals. Even if they're properly maintained, water may get through in that situation.

Joe:
It's been my understanding to avoid the high-pressure drive-thru
car washes, i.e., those at Shell gas stations. I was told that a
regular hand car wash would be okay. I'm not sure now. 
The first incident I mentioned in one of my first posts (not that I have
many - lol!) I thought it was bc one of the doors was not shut and
therefore there was that crack in the window when it's not completely
up. I was gonna check out the build date on my car, but I've been so
busy with work that I haven't had the chance (I don't drive the car THAT
often. I have a Kia Sorento that I use for work commuting, so my
daily mileage is split btwn the two). After the first incident, I told the
manager of the hand car wash that I believed the door wasn't shut all
of the way and so my seat got lightly wet (which it did - nothing nearly
as close to the drips I received this last time) at my second visit. At
that point he instructed one of the workers to not run it through the
water thingmajigger and literally REALLY hand wash it. I didn't notice
any wetness then. Maybe I'll have to just resort to that method of
car wash.
Stephanie


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: New package (dct82me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dct82me* »_
Joe:
It's been my understanding to avoid the high-pressure drive-thru
car washes, i.e., those at Shell gas stations. I was told that a
regular hand car wash would be okay. I'm not sure now. 
Stephanie

Stephanie,
I wash our Eos at a self serve "hand wash" (i.e. high pressure wand and foamy brush) all the time and have never had a problem.
I am cautious not to get too close to the car with the pressure wand above the door line. 
I stand well back and wet the roof area with the wand, but let the foamy brush do the grime removal. The high pressure wand is still useful for rims and wheel wells, and bugs on the bumper.
I have my fingers crossed for you that a little bit of seal maintenance, and a slight modification to your car wash technique, may solve the problem. It would be good news to hear the problem is minor.
Kevin


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## dct82me (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: New package (just4fun)*

Thanks, Kevin.
I'm definitely a l-a-z-y person when it comes to car washing. I always
go to the local hand car washes b/c ya wouldn't catch me washing my
car myself - LOL!! Looks like I'm gonna have to find a different way
to get my car washed. 
Thanks, everyone, for the insight you've provided. I'm still LOVIN'
my car







!!!


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## chomeur (Aug 1, 2007)

So the new seals to fix my driver's side A-pillar leak finally arrived after six weeks. Took my car in to have the work done today and the service advisor said it would be a two-day job and gave me a new Passat to drive while I wait.
It makes you wonder how much money VW will be spending around the world to fix this roof.


----------



## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (chomeur)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chomeur* »_It makes you wonder how much money VW will be spending around the world to fix this roof.

I had hoped VW would have this sorted out for the 2008 model years, so it concerns me that Stephanie is seeing problems on her car. I hope they've at least fixed the issue where some header seals weren't glued properly, since there was a TSB for that.
Still, these leaks appear to be relatively rare on the Eos. I take some comfort that it could have been much worse. I've heard many reports that the new Ford Focus CC has had nightmare issues with leaking, and that Ford even stopped shipment for several months to find a fix. See the responses to this article for a sample.


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## dct82me (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: New package (dct82me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dct82me* »_Looks like I'm gonna have to find a different way
to get my car washed. 

So I took my car to the car wash that I frequent. I now have them skip sending it through the hosing part of the process, and someone
strictly (literally) hand washes it. It costs $2 more, but it's definitely worth it to me. I still have to purchase the seal lubricant. Can someone 
please re-list the site where I can purchase it. I remember reading it in the thread, but I can't remember where I saw it.
Thanks!
ETA: Is there a "preview" before we click Save. It becomes annoying having to edit after-the-fact - ugh!!
Stephanie


_Modified by dct82me at 8:27 AM 10-28-2007_


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: New package (dct82me)*

To preview, click the icon with the sheet of paper and magnifying glass.
I will let the US members update you on where to get the lubricant, apart from your local VW dealership, and GM dealerships,I can't recall all the other sources.
Kevin










_Modified by just4fun at 9:51 AM 10-28-2007_


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## ryandougherty (Jun 14, 1999)

Sorry to hear about some of the leak issues some are having... 
I've had my eos since Dec '06 and have just turned 16,000 on the odometer. 
After washing the car at one of the self-serve carwashes (with wand and brush), I'll sometimes have a couple of drops on the rear pillars. I've never thought much of it, since my last car (a BMW Z4) would also do this sometimes.
Anyhow, I just relubricated my seals for the second time yesterday. Living in Florida and parking outdoors most of the day at work is hell on the seals. 
Just wondering, does the Volvo C70 convert or any other hardtop convert. need lubrication of the seals like the Eos? I don't mind doing it myself as part of the joy of having a sunroof/kick butt glasstop, but I was just wondering.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (ryandougherty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ryandougherty* »_
Just wondering, does the Volvo C70 convert or any other hardtop convert. need lubrication of the seals like the Eos? I don't mind doing it myself as part of the joy of having a sunroof/kick butt glasstop, but I was just wondering.

I'm not familiar with whether or not other hardtop convertibles "need" seal lubrication to keep the seals in good condition and help prevent leaks, but when I contacted the Canadian Krytox distributor he mentioned that orders for small quantities from convertible owners were very common.
Kevin


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (chomeur)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chomeur* »_So the new seals to fix my driver's side A-pillar leak finally arrived after six weeks. Took my car in to have the work done today and the service advisor said it would be a two-day job...


It took them a month to get mine installed but they had the car in the shop the whole time because of an additional leak I've got in the back of the roof. Did you get both the seal and the adhesive at the same time? One came in about 4 days before the other for me. Be sure to run the roof once or twice when you pick up the car to be sure that it still runs smoothly. 


_Modified by aflaedge at 9:47 AM 10-29-2007_


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## wndctyboy (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: New package (dct82me)*

Stephanie. This is a good site were I purchase my lubricant(Krytox). http://www.trademotion.com/par...13714
When you get to the site do a *Search by Factory Part Number* copy and paste this number *G 052 172 A1* (Select Make) Volkswagen and click search. Cost $38.34 plus shipping. I got it in mail in a week. 
After I lubricate all the seals by following Michael's directions on this post, I notice the roof was more quiet and the car had a better feel,the down side is all the windows will get stained by that mix of lubricant and water. I had no leaks before and none yet. Good luck. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by wndctyboy at 12:02 AM 10-31-2007_


_Modified by wndctyboy at 12:09 AM 10-31-2007_


----------



## dct82me (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: New package (wndctyboy)*

Thanks, wndctyboy, for the information. 
Edited to Add: I just purchased the seal lubricant.
Looking forward to gettin the job done










_Modified by dct82me at 10:21 PM 11-1-2007_


----------



## chomeur (Aug 1, 2007)

*Re: (aflaedge)*

I was told the seal and adhesive were installed at the same time. I don't really know the whole story because the paperwork ran 10+ pages and the service advisor hadn't typed it up yet when I picked up the car. He still hasn't sent it to me in the mail as he promised. Further lubrication of the rear seals is still necessary because the dealer ran through two bottles of whatever lubricant they ordered as part of the work, so I have to take it back for that. As I mentioned before, they keep saying it's a new lubricant (while still referring to it as "Krytox"), and I haven't been able to determine whether it's something owners are supposed to use. Unfortunately, after the work was completed, I noticed that both sides of the roof are still leaking slightly after I hand-washed the car today, although the side they didn't replace was worse than the side they did. I guess I'll wait until the next time it rains to decide what to do. Sorry to hear you lost your car for a month over this.


----------



## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (chomeur)*

I should be getting my car back today!! That makes 7 weeks in the shop, but half of that time was waiting for parts to be shipped from Europe. The word is that the seals on either side of the roof were replaced as well as some kind of water trough. Instead of channeling the water to the pavement it was being rerouted to my trunk. They had 2 Technicians, the shop boss, and a regional VW technician. Once I get the full rundown on what was replaced and adjusted I'll post it up. From the sounds of things this problem was about as atypical as they get and may have taken longer than needed because they went a little overboard on replacing parts since they couldn't find the leak initially.


----------



## dct82me (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: New package (dct82me)*

So the bottle of seal lubricant arrived yesterday in the mail. I must
say, the box looks like it was sent through the wringer - ugh! The
bottle was not damaged though.
Now I'm pretty nervous about applying the stuff. I remember briefly
looking over the photos and thorough instructions posted when I first
joined this site, and I am definitely hesitant about the procedure. Also,
is there like a time for which this stuff needs to "set in"? I guess I
can do it this weekend b/c I'm boarding a cruise ship on Monday







.
It should be "set in" by Friday, when I return. 
Well, wish me luck







.
Stephanie


----------



## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: New package (dct82me)*

Despite being treated with the Krytox at my last service appointment, about a month later I started getting leaks again at the A pillar on both sides. I took my car in today and the dealer said there was a new TB issued one or two days ago that are recommending an adjustment to the tension on the headliner. They said they water tested it with success so I will see if this resolves the issue.


----------



## vespagirl (Mar 26, 2007)

The last time it rained I looked closely before I got in, and there were no leaks. But then once I got in the car, I got dripping from the front pillar where it meets the roof. Sometimes immediately after I get in, and sometimes after about 5 min. Is this a sign of a bad seal? Because I can understand a little drippage due to the way the window moves up and down when the down in opened and closed... but it'll get really annoying once the rains come this winter.
I did mention if they could check if the seals needed to be lubricated when I took my car in for service, but I don't think the guy cared. Or I just look stupid about cars and he brushed it off. Is that something they normally make a note of on the papers? At least that they looked into it? I want to take it in, but it's a pain to get up to the dealer and I don't want to be brushed off again... it's either waiting it out on the weekend or the pain in the ass of getting someone to give me a ride back from work. So you understand why I want to be sure.


----------



## JustinW (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: (vespagirl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vespagirl* »_The last time it rained I looked closely before I got in, and there were no leaks. But then once I got in the car, I got dripping from the front pillar where it meets the roof. Sometimes immediately after I get in, and sometimes after about 5 min. Is this a sign of a bad seal? 

If this is what I'm thinking of, this is more the byproduct of having no rain gutters along the roof.
Basically, any water that wants to drip towards the window, can, and if the door is open for any amount of time, that allows water to drip inside. I've seen it bead along the top of the window after the door is closed, and drip down for a little bit after.
If this is your situation, this is not a seal thing, just a design issue, and something to be aware of when it rains.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (vespagirl)*

Hi Cindy,
Welcome to the forum.
Check this thread for a TB (technical bulletin) that explains the seal lubrication process. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3484059
Please read the instructions in this thread before mentioning or presenting the TB to your dealer. How you approach your service advisor with this information is very imnportant.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2907445
Kevin


_Modified by just4fun at 7:20 AM 11-16-2007_


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## vespagirl (Mar 26, 2007)

*Re: (JustinW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JustinW* »_
If this is your situation, this is not a seal thing, just a design issue, and something to be aware of when it rains.

Thanks, that's what I'd been thinking myself, but just wanted to be sure. The rainy season is about to hit and I didn't want a serious leak and water damage on my hands because I was wrong. Very glad for the confirmation, thanks.

_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_
Hi Cindy,
Welcome to the forum.
...
Please read the instructions in this thread before mentioning or presenting the TB to your dealer. How you approach your service advisor with this information is very imnportant.

I've been around on here for 8 months now, but thanks.








As the dealer is a forum sponsor here, I am thinking it's something that they're well aware of already. I also mentioned the stereo firmware upgrade to handle the loud bass issues at high speeds, so looking back maybe he was just distracted with typing that in the notes at the time and didn't hear.


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (vespagirl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vespagirl* »_
I've been around on here for 8 months now, but thanks.










Hmmm... My appologies, I didn't recognize your moniker as one I had seen before.








Kevin


----------



## shorenuf (May 4, 2007)

*Re: (just4fun)*

Thought this might be interesting to everyone . . .
Well -- I am about to pick up my new '08 Eos. As part of the deal, the dealer was supposed to krytox the seals and give me the remainder. Well -- supposedly VW has revamped their lubricant -- the parts department had not been stocked with any of the new replacement for krytox liquid. (Could be an aerosol, who knows?) VW now supplies a seal kit to the dealer for application prior to delivery of a new EOS. That is all I know right now -- I will keep you posted.
And, oh, yes -- FINALLY after 22+ weeks -- Horray!! Yippee!! Yay!! Tomorrow I bring my Eos home.


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (shorenuf)*

Congratulations Roberta!















Please keep us posted on this lubricant "revamp"
Kevin


----------



## Dan_Eos (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: (shorenuf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shorenuf* »_Thought this might be interesting to everyone . . .
Well -- I am about to pick up my new '08 Eos. As part of the deal, the dealer was supposed to krytox the seals and give me the remainder. Well -- supposedly VW has revamped their lubricant -- the parts department had not been stocked with any of the new replacement for krytox liquid. (Could be an aerosol, who knows?) VW now supplies a seal kit to the dealer for application prior to delivery of a new EOS. That is all I know right now -- I will keep you posted.
And, oh, yes -- FINALLY after 22+ weeks -- Horray!! Yippee!! Yay!! Tomorrow I bring my Eos home.

Good to hear you're about to get your car... I got back from Afghanistan a few weeks ago and went to the dealer the very next day. The car wasn't there yet, but since I was at the dealer, I decided to go ahead and take care of the paperwork ahead of time. Well, while I was in the office signing... it showed up on the truck so I was able to take it home with me... Great timing.








Since you're getting the same color... I can tell you that it's beautiful!!! you'll love it!!
Enjoy your new car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (Dan_Eos)*

Dan,
Congratulations! Welcome Home! Thanks for your service!
Bruce


----------



## Dan_Eos (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: (flheat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flheat* »_Dan,
Congratulations! Welcome Home! Thanks for your service!
Bruce

Thank you.


----------



## shorenuf (May 4, 2007)

*Re: (Dan_Eos)*

Thank you for your well wishes. There is no better time of year to be reminded of the real things we should be grateful for. Thank goodness for your safe return and thank you -- because of your service we are free to drive our Eoses wherever our hearts take us. Happy Thanksgiving!

_Quote, originally posted by *Dan_Eos* »_Good to hear you're about to get your car... I got back from Afghanistan a few weeks ago and went to the dealer the very next day. The car wasn't there yet, but since I was at the dealer, I decided to go ahead and take care of the paperwork ahead of time. Well, while I was in the office signing... it showed up on the truck so I was able to take it home with me... Great timing.








Since you're getting the same color... I can tell you that it's beautiful!!! you'll love it!!
Enjoy your new car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: (shorenuf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shorenuf* »_There is no better time of year to be reminded of the real things we should be grateful for. Thank goodness for your safe return and thank you -- because of your service we are free to drive our Eoses wherever our hearts take us. Happy Thanksgiving!


Ditto


----------



## jmg3637 (Jul 17, 2006)

*Re: (shorenuf)*

Did I understand your post correctly that VW is now supplying a kit and is recommending/requiring that the seals be treated with krytox prior to delivery? Wow that would be a great decision.
I have had my car for just under 6 months and for most of that time there has been a small portion of the roof panel seal that gets pinched whenever the roof closes.
the first time that I took the car in was about 6 weeks after delivery and they claimed the problem was because i did not have the car washed enough and that i piece of dirt had gotten into the mechanism.
within 1 month the problem was back in exactly the same spot. I took the car in for its 5k service and again went over the problem with the service dept.
They claim that this is an absolutely normal situation and they refuse to do anything about it. I sent them the tech bulletin, but they said that unless the car was leaking they would not do anything. They also said that the lubricant (G 052172A1) was not krotox, but some other material.
I have pleaded with this dealer since prior to getting the car to just krytox the seals so we do not have any issues. this dealer has only 1 person who is qualified on the EOS and it seems as though he does not really want to be working on those kind of problems.
My car also has gremlins in the folding mirrors in that they often do not fold out in the morning, and sometimes folding out/backin after I turn them in while pulling into a spot. since they could not find the same problem in 10+ minutes of trying they just disimmised the problem as not really an issue


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (jmg3637)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmg3637* »_I have pleaded with this dealer since prior to getting the car to just krytox the seals so we do not have any issues. this dealer has only 1 person who is qualified on the EOS and it seems as though he does not really want to be working on those kind of problems.


Hi James,
I'm not suggesting your dealership shouldn't be more attentive to your concerns, but have you considered lubricating the seals yourself?
It would be a shame to see a seal damaged by pinching when 30 - 45 mintes of your time would likely solve the problem.
Kevin


----------



## jmg3637 (Jul 17, 2006)

*Re: (just4fun)*

the salesman has told me that he will get me a bottle of krotox and I will try to lube some of the seals myself. Hopefully it will not be too complicated.
I am just frustrated since my last 2 cars were Acura's and the service department at the dealership was very dedicated to maintianing the cars that they serviced. It seems like VW views service as an adversarial relationship. 
Unless service gets better this will be the only VW that I will ever purchase, as I will not buy a car again from a dealer or company who feels that the customer is a necesarry evil.


----------



## lonerthx (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: (jmg3637)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmg3637* »_ Unless service gets better this will be the only VW that I will ever purchase, as I will not buy a car again from a dealer or company who feels that the customer is a necesarry evil.

James, may I ask which dealer you get your car serviced at?


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (jmg3637)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmg3637* »_Hopefully it will not be too complicated.


James,
Having lubricated the seals a couple times myself, I assure you it is not overly complicated.
Browse through this thread for many photo's and tips on how to do it.
You may also find this attachment to be useful.
Kevin
*NOTE:* The procedure refers to using a trim removal tool while spraying the lubricant onto the top roof seals. If you are using the liquid (oil) lubricant, you can gently work it in with your pinky finger.



_Modified by just4fun at 6:03 PM 11-20-2007_


----------



## dct82me (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: (lonerthx)*

Are there any So. Cal. Eos owners that would be interested in
having a lubing party?














Luckily for us, our weather
won't seem to cause too many problems re the rain. I purchased
the bottle of lubricant before I left on my cruise last week, but
I'm now hesitant to actually apply it. I'll have to print out those
very detailed lubricating notes beforehand, that's for sure!!!
Stephanie


----------



## Mr Fred Nerk (Jun 3, 2007)

I thought I would selfishly bump this thread so that I can find it quickly when I do the lube thing soon.


----------



## monocle (Jun 27, 2007)

Anyone else from California been told you can't buy the seal lube in this state? I just got back from the dealer and they told me that. First off the parts department had no clue what I was talking about with the "issue with the roof seals". Said that if there was a problem with the roof seals leaking then it'd probably be covered under warranty (which would be nice). But she had no idea about any lube... so she got the service guy who told me that the lube is not for sale in CA.


_Modified by monocle at 6:25 PM 12-11-2007_


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (monocle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *monocle* »_Anyone else from California been told you can't by the seal lube in this state? I just got back from the dealer and they told me that.

That's going to throw a monkey wrench into Stephanie's lube party.


----------



## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (just4fun)*

Did they give you a reason why the lube isn't for sale? It seems strange that VW would sell a car with a feature that requires regular maintenance in a state that makes the maintenance impossible.


----------



## monocle (Jun 27, 2007)

*Re: (aflaedge)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aflaedge* »_Did they give you a reason why the lube isn't for sale? It seems strange that VW would sell a car with a feature that requires regular maintenance in a state that makes the maintenance impossible.
the service guy said because of the chemicals in it. I was at a loss for words. I'm sure I looked crazy... standing there all slack-jawed and deer-eyed. I was sure he was mistaken... but I didn't have any thing to back up any claims I would have made so I didn't really feel like pressing the issue. I might try to force the issue in a "lube them for me under warranty or sell me some lube" kind of way. But that is gonna have to wait.


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (monocle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *monocle* »_the service guy said because of the chemicals in it. I was at a loss for words. I'm sure I looked crazy... standing there all slack-jawed and deer-eyed. I was sure he was mistaken... but I didn't have any thing to back up any claims I would have made so I didn't really feel like pressing the issue. I might try to force the issue in a "lube them for me under warranty or sell me some lube" kind of way. But that is gonna have to wait.

Here is the MSDS for Krytox, not sure if it will be helpful or not, you may have trouble convincing them it is the same as the VW lube.
If they sell synthetic oil at your dealership, I can't see there being a problem with Krytox.


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (aflaedge)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aflaedge* »_Did they give you a reason why the lube isn't for sale? 

Just as I hit the post button on my last post I had a thought.
I wonder if they were looking at the spray on lube. Maybe the propellent is the problem?
Kevin


----------



## petevv (Aug 13, 2005)

*Re: (monocle)*

I bought mine in September, and had no problem at all, though I specifically asked for VW lube part no G-052-172-A1 rather than mentioning the Eos roof seals.
I called several local dealers - most had it in stock at various prices. My closest dealer wasn't cheapest but agreed to match the lowest price I was quoted.
Unless some rule has changed in the last 3 months, there shouldn't be any problem buying the lube here.

Not really relevant to anything, but this reminds me of being amused when reading about the VW windshield washer concentrate... Mixing instructions were something like 2:1, or 1:1 in temps below freezing, or 99:1 in Texas, and not legal at all in California.









Anyway, Monocle, maybe try calling another dealer and ordering by part #? If all else fails, I'll be heading up your way for Christmas in Pleasanton, maybe I could bring you a bottle...
Pete


----------



## monocle (Jun 27, 2007)

the service guy called me and they do have the seal lube. But it was sounding like he was really trying to convince me not to buy it since he told me several time that it was a pretty small bottle and that it was pretty expensive. $59 or so. I thanked him for the info.


----------



## MlleCarla (Jan 5, 2008)

*Re: lube for sale in CA*

Just bought the lube (G-052-172-A1) with 15% off coupon. With tax out the door $63.35 in Southern California -Huntington Beach CA (McKenna VW)
I would have been happier if it was supplied by the dealer at purchase here at McKenna, or at my 5000 mile check up today at McKenna. Looks like they do not subscribe to the best practice of preventative actions.








Service dept did look into it (applying preventatively) and a couple VIN #s (mine not included) had been recalled for placement of this lubricant --they would not do this for me today.
I would suggest new buyers to insist on this lube at purchase, just as a preventative measure.
On a good note-thank you for all of the great info on how to apply this!








C


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: lube for sale in CA (MlleCarla)*

Carla,
Welcome to the forum.
Great to hear you are enjoying your Eos http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Kevin


----------



## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: lube for sale in CA (MlleCarla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MlleCarla* »_Just bought the lube (G-052-172-A1) with 15% off coupon. With tax out the door $63.35 in Southern California -Huntington Beach CA (McKenna VW)
I would have been happier if it was supplied by the dealer at purchase here at McKenna, or at my 5000 mile check up today at McKenna. Looks like they do not subscribe to the best practice of preventative actions.







C

Hi Carla,
That's where I bought my Eos which is coming up for the 5000 mile service.
Other than the lube issue, were you happy with their service?
Thanks.


----------



## dct82me (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: lube for sale in CA (SoCalMan)*

I'm up in L.A. County. I bought "Candy" (yeah, I know --
soooo original) the first week in September, and she just
went in for her 5,000 mi service yesterday too (not at the
dealer where I bought though). I inquired about the "born 
date" which has been spoken of here and was shown the 
decal on the door jamb - 6/07 2007 Portugal. I also asked 
about the seals ever being lubricated, and the service advisor 
offered to look it up in the system. He had stated that they 
indeed had been lubricated. I had mentioned of what possibly
could be a window issue (noticed when I had my car washed) 
b/c the interior had gotten slightly wet, but he had stated that
what most likely happened was a door was not properly shut,
which led to the windows not securely closing (which makes
sense).
Last night we had a pretty torrential downpour, and I had
gone out to visit a friend in Burbank. When I got home,
I ran my fingers along the inside of the windows, and there
was absolutely no moisture. 
I'm happy to report that I'm still lovin' the Eos life!!!










_Modified by dct82me at 9:49 AM 1-6-2008_


----------



## MlleCarla (Jan 5, 2008)

*Re: lube for sale in CA (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_Carla,
Welcome to the forum.
Great to hear you are enjoying your Eos http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Kevin

Thank you for the welcome moderator Kevin.








I really am enjoying my ride and great to have a forum like this to bounce ideas off all of you.
Carla


----------



## MlleCarla (Jan 5, 2008)

*Re: lube for sale in CA (SoCalMan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoCalMan* »_
Hi Carla,
That's where I bought my Eos which is coming up for the 5000 mile service.
Other than the lube issue, were you happy with their service?
Thanks.

SoCalMan,
Yes, I am happy with McKenna. I will return back there again.







 
The 5000 mile check up was $103.33 with a 10% discount coupon. Looks like there was a mix up with my scheduling...they were not expecting me...service guy reports that I may have been set up to go to Carson VW that day. (some phone cross over problem) The guy I spoke to the day before on the phone assured me that my seals would be lubed because of the 3 day old recall that was out. 
I am happy I got in there yesterday and was able to get the check up and buy the lube...now all I need is the *lube party *to happen. Ready Stephanie?








See you all out and about!
Carla


----------



## petevv (Aug 13, 2005)

*Re: lube for sale in CA (MlleCarla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MlleCarla* »_Just bought the lube (G-052-172-A1) with 15% off coupon. With tax out the door $63.35 in Southern California -Huntington Beach CA (McKenna VW)
I would have been happier if it was supplied by the dealer at purchase here at McKenna, or at my 5000 mile check up today at McKenna. Looks like they do not subscribe to the best practice of preventative actions.










Hi Carla, 
Hey - McKenna didn't even fill my tank at purchase! First time I've ever bought a car and had to stop for gas on the way home. So not getting free lubricant doesn't really surprise me.








To be fair, they treated me very well on purchase price and it was my easiest purchase ever. The general manager located my car and did the deal with me (including financing and my trade) over the phone.
I used Pacific for my 5K service (73.72 with synthetic) and the little bottle of lube (55.34 with tax). It's been a few years since I had my Jetta, so I'm looking forward to building a new relationship with them.
I'm glad you're happy with the service - that's what matters. Hope to see some of you socal folks around!
Pete


----------



## MlleCarla (Jan 5, 2008)

*Re: lube for sale in CA (petevv)*

Pete-got a half a tank of gas at purchase








you got great prices at Pacific!
Enjoy your ride!








Carla


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (vespagirl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vespagirl* »_The last time it rained I looked closely before I got in, and there were no leaks. But then once I got in the car, I got dripping from the front pillar where it meets the roof. Sometimes immediately after I get in, and sometimes after about 5 min. Is this a sign of a bad seal? Because I can understand a little drippage due to the way the window moves up and down when the down in opened and closed... but it'll get really annoying once the rains come this winter.

I think that the problem may be *a different problem, requiring seal adhesive at the front seal near the A-pillar*, which is described in *TB 61 07 04*, which I can't seem to find in the forums anymore (Search won't take it as one long string, and says that the 2-char parts are too short







) My problem was on the pass. side, on times when I had only opened the driver's side (i.e. pass. side did not drop down, but ~1 cup of water was on my rubber mats on that side)
It only happens for me in heavy rain with the car outside (of course), so they didn't have it happen when they let the hose gently cascade over the car for 20min. You are not supposed to wash with hard spray above the windows, but of course the rain doesn't read the manual.
just4fun/Kevin, do you know where this TB is listed? I can't find it.








I thought that the leaks from the front edge of the door were due to needed lubrication, but I now have a lifetime supply of Krytox, inc a small bottle of VW-Krytox, and this TB describes a leak from the same place-- with the solution being glue. Unfortunately, it seems to be on backorder, as I took it in mid-Dec, got it back, and the adhesive _should be there_ for an appt on Jan 16th.
My dealer was nice about it, apologized, and let me have my Eos back (at that time we thought it might arrive in a few days, but they are mindful of my time http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif)
William


----------



## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (kghia)*

I found the thread listing TB 61 07 04 (using Google, *not the forum Search*)
Here is TB 61-07-04 Windshield Frame Seal Water Leak
William


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (kghia)*

*This is a re-post. Adding this info to the relative thread.*
The first year we had the Eos I performed a complete seal lubrication the day it came home from the dealership. I also did one or two partial applications during the summer months, primarily on the top roof seals where they are exposed to the elements and car washes. Then I did another complete application in the fall before I stored the car for the winter. 
This year I checked the seals several times over the summer and they were always good. As you can see in the photo, they are still nice and black, have an oily sheen, and are soft and supple.
I see this as an indication that once the seals are well saturated, they will require less frequent applications of Krytox.
Now I'm debating whether or not I should treat the seals before storing the car. I like the idea of giving the seals a chance to really soak up some lubricant, but on the other hand it would be interesting to see how long I can go between tretments. 








Kevin


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## carnut77459 (May 3, 2008)

*Re: (just4fun)*

My 2007 EOS leaks around the A Pillar driver's side and drips on my leg during a light rain. After reading this thread about solutions I was looking for Kyrtox GPL 105 and found a 4 oz dropper bottle for $74.50 from http://www.miller-stephenson.com/ and a 8 oz dropper bottle for $74. I bought the car used from a local dealer and they will work on it to stop the leaks but I plan on getting some Krytox 105 to do the seal lube myself in the future.


----------



## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: (carnut77459)*

You might want to check that the A pillar drains are not clogged. I recently had a bad leak at my 'C' pillar that was caused by clogged drains.


----------



## carnut77459 (May 3, 2008)

*Re: (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mark_d_drake* »_You might want to check that the A pillar drains are not clogged. I recently had a bad leak at my 'C' pillar that was caused by clogged drains.

You know I thought about that. The drip comes from between the 2 plastic trim pieces. I was thinking about dripping a few drops of Clorox down the round hole and blowing it out with my air hose in case it was algae down the drain tube. The sunroof seals at the front corner do look like they would allow water to drip through by the A pillar.


----------



## millsan1 (Mar 2, 2009)

I may have found a source for Krytox at $30 plus S&H for 1 oze bottles with the little plastic nipple tip. I will order one and see what it looks like.


----------



## just-jean (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (millsan1)*

finally got around to adding a picture of my A pillar leak repair
service papers indicate TB-61-07-10
with part 1JM133001 hose
hasn't leaked between the white sections of the A pillar since they beefed up the pillar moulding with the little hose presumably to keep the area where it has no lip and connects to the side of the sunroof channel from dipping and spilling into the trim. the hose does not connect anything, it just provides support.











_Modified by just-jean at 3:36 PM 10-3-2009_


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## Wurz68 (Jun 8, 2008)

*A Pillar Leak*

I just had exactly the same happen today, drips between the trim on the A pillar, drivers side, and I had only just lubricated all the seals yesterday in anticipation of rain...which we have now had! Took it straight to my dealer - I've had the car from new and it has just gone over it's third birthday, *never a leak problem 'till now *- and it was "we'll need it for a few days as there are numerous fixes" can't do that yet as I have to commute to work - but seeing this post I will look for blocked drain - I noticed a thin tube lying at bottom of seal on drivers side (UK) but no such tube on the passenger side...I see from your picture that you are showing what is the passenger side on my vehicle. Just to compound issues, my boot catch is now playing up where every so often the lid fails to lock and I have to press down hard to get the electric catch/motor to operate. Does anyone know of a post covering this?


----------



## ChavinKnight (Sep 21, 2009)

I've had my Eos for just over two weeks now. I washed and lovingly dried it this weekend, and was happy, so happy, not to have any leaks. I went ahead and lubricated the seals according to the owner's manual. The instructions there are a little different than what's presented in the first post of this thread, and I went strictly by my manual. The rains will start in a few more weeks here in the Pacific Northwest, so please wish me luck. I keep the car in the garage, but when I go to work, I'll have to leave it out all day, and there *will* be days of torrential rain. I'm hoping that the seals have gotten better with time. I just have to say that I *love* this car; I went grocery shopping today in 52 degree weather with grey clouds, and I happily had the top down with the seat warmer on, a jacket, and a watchcap. Works for me.


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (ChavinKnight)*

You took an important first step in mitigating future seal problems by being proactive with your seal maintenance. We are three years in and nary a drop. 
Kevin


----------



## mlbarnes (Nov 14, 2009)

*Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)*

Has anyone any experience specifically with water pooling within the gutter of the doors, spilling out every time you open them after a rainy day? I have heard there is some modification that can resolve this? As it is, my lower door seals are wet through every time I open the doors after rain, and I'm sure this is doing no good, although my dealer tells me this is supposed to happen!
Thanks for a great thread.
Martyn


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (mlbarnes)*

Hi Martyn,
There is a TB in the Tech Bulletin thread that addresses this issue.
Kevin 


_Modified by just4fun at 8:37 AM 11-14-2009_


----------



## Wurz68 (Jun 8, 2008)

*Re: How to solve (mlbarnes)*

Had exactly the same with my Eos, and found on this forum how to get the "fix". Your local VW dealer should know exactly what is involved, which is using an adapted drain-pipe to syphon the water before it trickles down to the door seals. Seemple.


----------



## mlbarnes (Nov 14, 2009)

*Re: How to solve (Wurz68)*

Thanks Wurz. I have found the TB article on cutting holes in the door seals. I shall look again at the TB files - I didn't see any drain pipe solution, except within the C-Segment seals TB article (leaking from the rear windows, which I do not seem to have). 
Is this a cause of the door pooling too? - I have yet to see if these modifications have been done, but I have checked the door seal holes, and these have already been cut, so I'm not sure what to do about this now?


----------



## Wurz68 (Jun 8, 2008)

*Re: How to solve (mlbarnes)*

I've just found my warranty repair docket and it say's "applied sealant to upper seals on "B" posts to eliminate water ingress between door seals ( TPI 2012970/6) so quote this to your dealer....


----------



## FMinMI (Dec 25, 2009)

*Re: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Can you tell me what is the print-date of the manual you used to show the lubricant requirement? I have a 2008 EOS and in my manual Booklet 3.2, page 27 (not 25) it specifically says "We recommend treating the rubber seals in your vehicle with silicone or another vehicle care product to keep them soft...". And it does show the same picture as yours. The print date on the rear of my 3.2 booklet is 09.2007...
Thanks.


----------



## Wurz68 (Jun 8, 2008)

*Re: How to solve (FMinMI)*

On page 25 of my book (2007 Model) there is a "note" that say's in BOLD "DO NOT use any rubber cleaning or treatment products containing silicone, or any products containing acids, such as industrial dust removers or insect repellents."
Don't know about insect repellent......but I do know you need to use either the VW recommended stuff, or Krytox. I've used it for the life of my Eos (over three years) and have no leaks!


----------



## FMinMI (Dec 25, 2009)

*Re: How to solve (Wurz68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wurz68* »_On page 25 of my book (2007 Model) there is a "note" that say's in BOLD "DO NOT use any rubber cleaning or treatment products containing silicone, or any products containing acids, such as industrial dust removers or insect repellents."
Don't know about insect repellent......but I do know you need to use either the VW recommended stuff, or Krytox. I've used it for the life of my Eos (over three years) and have no leaks!

I am being to think there was a change made between 2007 and 2008. Can someone with a 2009 review their manual and let us know what it says on page 25 or 27 or ???


----------



## FMinMI (Dec 25, 2009)

*Re: How to solve Roof Leaks - Krylox oil*


_Quote, originally posted by *FMinMI* »_
I am being to think there was a change made between 2007 and 2008. Can someone with a 2009 review their manual and let us know what it says on page 25 or 27 or ???

I recently read in a tech bulletin that said there was an error in the printing of some of the manuals and that you should not use silicone on these seals. I would still like to know however what the 2009 and 2010 manual says. Any one???
Also, for those who are interested, I am selling a small quantity of Krylox oil -- please see the EOS classified area under parts.


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## Wurz68 (Jun 8, 2008)

*Re: How to solve Roof Leaks - Krylox oil (FMinMI)*

This is what the technical info was/is and is current for all year models
TT 61-07-112
2007>EOS - Rubber Seal Protection Tip
A misprint has been noted in the owner’s manual booklet “3.2 Tips and Advice” concerning treatment of the rubber seals.
On page 26 of the booklet under the section for “Care of Rubber Seals” it is stated to use silicone care products on the
seals to keep them soft and from freezing. This is incorrect. Use only Krytox lubricant on the rubber seals. Part number
000 096 331 is for a one time cleaning and protection of the seals. Part number G 052 172 A2 (a 100ml bottle) can be
used for several applications.
TT 61-07-111
2007 EOS - Header Seal Replacement - Additional Tips
When diagnosis leads to the replacement of the header seal, the part may be superseded to part number 1Q0


----------



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: How to solve Roof Leaks - Krylox oil (Wurz68)*

Good catch Larry http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I have browsed the Tech Tips many times, and overlooked that one.
Kevin


----------



## FMinMI (Dec 25, 2009)

*Re: How to solve Roof Leaks - Krylox oil (Wurz68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wurz68* »_This is what the technical info was/is and is current for all year models
TT 61-07-112
2007>EOS - Rubber Seal Protection Tip
A misprint has been noted in the owner’s manual booklet “3.2 Tips and Advice” concerning treatment of the rubber seals.
On page 26 of the booklet under the section for “Care of Rubber Seals” it is stated to use silicone care products on the
seals to keep them soft and from freezing. This is incorrect. Use only Krytox lubricant on the rubber seals. Part number
000 096 331 is for a one time cleaning and protection of the seals. Part number G 052 172 A2 (a 100ml bottle) can be
used for several applications.
TT 61-07-111
2007 EOS - Header Seal Replacement - Additional Tips
When diagnosis leads to the replacement of the header seal, the part may be superseded to part number 1Q0


But of course the average Eos owner would not get these tech tips and if they relied on what was in the OWNERS MANUAL, they could destroy the seals. It would be interesting to see how VW would handle a seal-failure replacement if silicone was used and determined to be the cause of the failure. My guess is that in a court of law, VW would end up paying unless they had proof that they send out replacement pages or an addendum to all owners...


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## Grafixx101 (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: How to solve (PanEuropean)*

Hello. I know this is probably an un-answerable question on here, but thought I'd give it a shot anyway.
Basically, my father picked up a bottle of 'arctic oil' from a Swiss based company http://www.oerlikon.com/ that manufactures rotary vacuum pumps. So he got me a jug of this 'arctic oil' and is saying that it's comparable to Krytox. Uhm, I have NO idea if this is true or false or a good idea. Obviously I don't want to do this if it's going to ruin the seals. I just wrote to DuPont, but feel they're going to be biased in their response, regardless of the fact that I (in a nice way) pointed out they were probably biased.
Basically my tops leaking big time and I have a huge issue paying $100 for a tiny vile of Krytox when this 'arctic oil' might be just as good, if not better to use on the seals. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


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## midician (Nov 11, 2009)

The 2010 model manual states DO NOT USE ANY LUBRICANTS OR KRYTOX on Window seals. So what do we do about window squeaks and rattles?


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## DavidPaul (Nov 28, 2009)

I was at my Volkswagen dealership last week to buy some Krytox. However, just before I went into the parts department, I saw the Service Manager on the driveway.

I know this guy is a real car person. We have spent a lot of time just talking general car stuff. I asked Dave what he thought of the Krytox. He said it is good but not as good as the product that he uses. 

His personal preferance is "303 Aerospace Protectant". He uses it on his personal Eos as well as a couple of collector cars that he owns.

They don't sell it at his dealership but he did tell me where to pick it up in Tucson which is the same place he gets it.

The nice thing is that compared to Krytox, it is cheap. It is available all over the internet but I plan on picking up a bottle when I am in Tucson this coming Tuesday.


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## just-jean (Sep 14, 2006)

DavidPaul said:


> I was at my Volkswagen dealership last week to buy some Krytox. However, just before I went into the parts department, I saw the Service Manager on the driveway.
> 
> I know this guy is a real car person. We have spent a lot of time just talking general car stuff. I asked Dave what he thought of the Krytox. He said it is good but not as good as the product that he uses.
> 
> ...


aerospace 303, krytox, VW stock stuff.........they are all various forms of liquid teflon.......each one has their own specific qualities. i would still recommend only using what VW offers for the seals......after 3 years i still have my little bottle....it is much thicker than the 303 that comes in a spray bottle (i use that on my seats)


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## DavidPaul (Nov 28, 2009)

just-jean said:


> aerospace 303, krytox, VW stock stuff.........they are all various forms of liquid teflon.......each one has their own specific qualities. i would still recommend only using what VW offers for the seals......after 3 years i still have my little bottle....it is much thicker than the 303 that comes in a spray bottle (i use that on my seats)


I got some 303 Protectant and used it on my seats. It really does a good job of sealing them. I haven't tried it on any of the roof seals yet.

I can see that the 303 isn't actually going to soften the seals but it will definitely protect them from sun damage. And...it will not attract dirt like other products. 

I have a product called Magic Lube, which is a teflon based lubricant used mostly in pool scenarios where waterproofing is very important. It costs around $9 for a 5 oz. tube. I've been using it for my swimming pool "O" rings for years. I wonder if this product would be good for dried seals on the Eos roof.


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## HighGs (Feb 11, 2007)

*2009 Eos Manual, Booklet 3.2*

Mine reads that you should not use anything on the windows seals. It outlines the sunroof seals, window seals, and door seals in different colors. It explicitly says not to use the lubricant on the window seals; but it does say to use it on the door and sunroof seals.

I printed the original post out for this and read it. I appllied it on the sunroof and then was curious and reviewed my manual. The photos in this thread show lubricating the seal between the rear window and the trailing edge of the top. From the drawing in the owner's manual, it is unclear whether this should be lubricated. I think I'll just keep this stuff for the sunroof. I'll use less of it and stay away from any warranty issues.


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## FL_Eos (Aug 21, 2010)

Sammy said:


> My EOS came with the following package in the glove compartment. It looks like krytox imbedded in a cloth. It says it is good for one application. The only thing which looks like a part number is 000 096 331


 My dealer gave me like 15 of these kits when I asked about the lube for the roof. I used one a week ago and discovered my windows have streaks running down them. I guess this stuff "runs" after rain. The day I applied it, I let it sit open for an hour. No rain that particular day. 

:thumbup:


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## faythe (Oct 19, 2010)

*eos roof leaks*

thank you for your great article. taking it to the dealer this afternoon. will let you know


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## fdf123 (Mar 30, 2007)

*there are drain holes too*

See my separate post. There are also 2 drain holes for the roof system, and if these are clogged rain will leak into the car too.


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## Oz Top down (Sep 16, 2011)

Hi,
Does anyone have the pics from the start of this thread? 

Cheers Barry


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## Lavajava (Aug 20, 2010)

*Do you have pictures?*

CAn you send me the pdf that you referred to?
I could bot download it
Thanks

Pete 

[email protected]


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## vadenwagen (Oct 17, 2011)

*Eos roof leaks*

thank you for that. i have an eos roof leak to deal with tomorrow. i'll try lubing the seals ( we'll probably have to order the lube) and let you know what happens...


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## nigelmercier (Jul 8, 2012)

SCUBA Divers use Krytox for seal lubrication, see here. Would this stuff be OK?


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## psellars (Aug 29, 2012)

*Pictures In Original Posting*

Can anyone share the pictures in the original posting? It would be most helpful to this newbie! 

08, EOS Komfort. Purchased lubricant from dealer, just don't want to waste it.

Thanks!

Perry


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

I have re-hosted the pictures on the first two posts of page 1. I no longer have the originals, so I extracted the pictures from the PDF that is mentioned at the bottom of the very first post.

Probably best if you download that PDF and print it - my guess is that the picture quality will be slightly better in the PDF than on page 1 of the post, just because the PDF won't suffer from losses incurred with image conversion.

Michael
Phaeton Forum Moderator


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## Tara S. (Feb 22, 2013)

*Thanks Michael!*

You're a rockstar Michael! Thanks so much for your detailed information re: roof leaks. I have a 2008 Eos and I do have leaks when it rains heavily. I do not want to bring it to my VW dealer and spend $100 to have them lubricate the seals. Now I can do it myself. Where do you recommend I buy the VW recommended G052 172 A1 lubricant?


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## Smokey Eos (Mar 24, 2013)

*2009 EOS roof lube - where?*

This thread is great, but we just bought a 2009 EOS, and the Owner's Manual shows that the upper weatherstrip that seals the top of the windows should NOT be lubricated. I downloaded the instructions from here (thank you) but it shows that the top weatherstrip SHOULD be lubricated. Did they change the weatherstrip in 2009? What shoud I do? The top weatherstrip on our car seems to be different from the pure rubber type on the bottom of the doors. Maybe this has been covered somewhere in this thread, but I couldn't find it. Michael, can you help?


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## hanchi (Jan 31, 2013)

*how to solve eos roof leaks*

i have been racking my brain trying to solve a leak i have on the eos its nice of you to share your wealth of information with the public (me) i am eternaley grateful i have ordered the G 052 172 A1 and will follow your advice and i have every confidence that it will resolve the leak ..... happy rainy days lol


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## thelawnet (Oct 19, 2014)

This is a picture of the leak on my car










It is leaking through the fabric that links onto the sill next to the rear seat, on the passenger side.

I have lubricated the seals but it hasn't stopped the leak. Any suggestions what I might have missed?


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## gasenjo (Sep 29, 2015)

*lubricant for EOS*

Excellent post Michael, where can i buy this special lubricant?
Will VW dealers sell it, or can i buy online?
Gaby


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## eeclark (Sep 28, 2015)

gasenjo said:


> Excellent post Michael, where can i buy this special lubricant?
> Will VW dealers sell it, or can i buy online?
> Gaby



Amazon has it (about USD $35)
http://www.amazon.com/AUDI-EOS-CONVERTIBLE-SEAL-LUBRICANT/dp/B0068NDBUE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1444080303&sr=8-1&keywords=VW+Eos+lube

Dealer has it (about USD $50)
http://www.jimellisvwparts.com/products/gb/Special-lubricant-servicing-materials/5398742/G052172A1.html?partner=googlebase_adwords&kwd=&origin=pla


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## Mr Blacky (Oct 22, 2015)

*Roof leaks, New Owner*

Hello All, I want to establish up front, I very much enjoy my new 2016 Eos, I currently have 1,000 miles on the odometer! Ive been a pro-active owner and decided to dress out the CSC Roof Seals using the complimentry packets supplied during purchase. My vehicle has been through an automatic car wash and no leaks were detected, I do have an air leak (small) above the passenger seat and I'm hoping this is not a prelude to future leaks.


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## kratedisease (Aug 15, 2010)

*Lubrication of seals NOT ENOUGH--must clear out all the drains also at the same time*

I just wanted to add some important information regarding unresolved ongoing roof leaks on roofs that ARE PROPERLY lubed w Krytox. 

I am aware (and personally reviewed the posts/pictures/video) that have been posted that if the roof seals/weather strips are not lubed properly, the roof can allow water leaks to occur by allowing water to flow past deformed/dry seals/weatherstripping down into the cabin. 

Here is a link to a YouTube video describing the lubricating process
http://youtu.be/8rhOUl0jM8o

I have done quite a lot of research in this area and find some of this information to be helpful in reducing leaks, but only to a certain extent.

In fact, After lubricating my roof I still had dripping of water into my EOS. 
I really looked at the entire issue and really observed the following which finally resolved my leaking issue, and showed me that lubricating the roof rubber seals is only a SMALL PORTION of what needs to be looked at/inspected to resolve leaks.

Let me just say first off that even if you never lubed your roof rubber seals and even if you had a huge gap between the seals, you still should NOT get water leaking into the cabin. It is my opinion that lube on the seals really Is only the first line of defense in preventing leaks or water from entering.
I can say this with absolute confidence, and I will explain why since I now understand the engineering behind the roof drainage.

What is NOT explained anywhere on the Internet is that fact that SOME water gets beyond the rubber roof seals regardless, especially around the glass sunroof seals, despite of how tight the seals are and regardless of how well lubricated they are. Pure physics dictates that if there is enough rain or water on the roof some of the water will get past the seals no matter what. The rubber seals/weather stripping rubbers are water resistant and NOT water proof. 

(The EOS hardtop roof is NOT made by VW. It is manufactured by OASys which is a division of Webasto corporation in Germany and sold as complete modules to VW to be installed on the EOS. ) 

But what OASys devised is an ingenious system of catching any water that enters past the roof seals using several plastic/rubber catch "gutters" that are located under the seals that then drain the water that does get past the abutted seals into a drainage system inside the A pillar (that also the windshield) that catches,drains and dumps that water behind the front wheels, with additional drains on each side in the rear of the roof module that drain any water that got past the seals out the rear of the EOS thru a flexible tube system that drains the water out and dumps it thru the rear trunk area and dumps it under the car. 

And if these drains get clogged up with crud from decomposed tree leaf gunk or gritty road dust/crud that normally accumulates with time and deposits and collects inside these "gutters", YOU WILL HAVE WATER LEAKS IN YOUR ROOF regardless if you lube the top or not !!

What must be done at the same time the roof seals get lubed is that the drain tubes must be blown out and cleared.

Let me add that after I blew out/cleared out my 6 drain tubes, I tested the roof drainage and even dumped one liter of tap water directly into the drainage "gutters" inside the roof rails on the sides of the sunroof using a funnel (with the sunroof retracted), and the "gutters" took in and drained/removed all of that dumped water (one liter) completely within 10-15 seconds totally with no drip into the cabin !!! The drainage system is designed to drain massive amounts of water that can get past any dry or deformed seals super fast. 

It is important to note that if your seals are properly lubed and are not pinched, no matter how hard it rains, there is no way that such a large volume of water (one liter of water) is going to get past the seals that fast anyway. So that means that if you are lubricating your top, and are still getting drip or leakage into your cabin then most likely your drains are clogged with crud and the water accumulating in the roof "gutters" and is overflowing because the drain hoses ("leaders" in home roof terminology) are clogged and are not allowing the water to flow down the front and rear drain pipes fast enough. 

I find a total of 6 drain tubes that must be blown out or cleared. 

The 4 front drains are inside the front windshield A pillar on the outer ends of the top weatherstripping of the windshield. There are two drains in the front windshield ON EACH SIDE for a total of 4 drains on the front A pillars. You need to blow those out. You can put a funnel inside the opening and blow even using your lungs (breath), or using compressed air. 

In the rear there is one drain tube on each side. You can access it with the top partially retracted where the rear glass is lifted up onto the rest of the roof but the roof still on top of the car. Same position as shown when you need to access to lube the rear seals. 
You will see a corrugated black flexible tube that is attached to the rear weatherstripping where there is a weatherstripping Chanel. Those also have to be blown out. 

If any of these drain tubes get clogged ( and they eventually do get clogged up with stuff like decomposed tree leaves, road dust, even krytox that has dripped inside and attracted dirt and smudge, you will have leaks because the water caught by the "gutters" located under the roof seals are overflowing. 

Hope this helps those with unresolved water leaks


Sent from my iPad


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## Raffman (Oct 31, 2007)

*Another source of water intrusion I'd not previously heard of: Door wiring harness bellows.*

I have a 2007 Eos, always well maintained with Krytox, which started leaking water into the driver's side carpet near the driver's left foot. There was no obvious source of leak (no drips from the roof), so the theory was that it must be coming in from the A pillar. The dealer replaced the front roof seal, and also opened up the A-pillar to check the drain tube (I've heard a broken drain tube is a common source of leaks).

I took the car home, but the next day it rained there was still water coming in from somewhere. Back to the dealer, and after a bit more investigation they discovered that the rubber bellows that routes the wiring harness between the body and the door had a tear. Water was flowing down the front of the door, into the bellows, and from there into the driver's compartment. After a new wire harness/boot, so far no more leaks. This is probably another item to investigate if you're getting wet carpets whenever it rains.


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## just-jean (Sep 14, 2006)

Thanks!


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## JIMTI (Sep 6, 2016)

What a very helpful thread, I have just got my new (to me) EOS, a 2008 model, and although it appears to keep dry it had some deforming of the seal by the sun roof and all of the seals are hard, so I went to the local TPS and have got the "special lubricant" arriving tomorrow, so will give all the seals a good clean and treat them ready for the start of the wetter weather. 
I can see this forum is going to be a great source of knowledge in the coming years as I intend keeping the car until it is recycled.


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## BlueGLI1.8T (May 24, 2004)

Excellent write up. I just picked of a 2009 EOS for my wife as a project car and yesterday during hard rain I received a small drip at the very top of the driver's side A-Pillar where it connects to the center trim. I immediately thought there my be a clogged drain as I went through this in the 5 MKIV VWs I owned in years past. I will investigate this now knowing what you have written here. Thanks again!



kratedisease said:


> I just wanted to add some important information regarding unresolved ongoing roof leaks on roofs that ARE PROPERLY lubed w Krytox.
> 
> I am aware (and personally reviewed the posts/pictures/video) that have been posted that if the roof seals/weather strips are not lubed properly, the roof can allow water leaks to occur by allowing water to flow past deformed/dry seals/weatherstripping down into the cabin.
> 
> ...


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## MMMH2O (Oct 24, 2004)

*A pillar leak*

My 2008 Eos was leaking from the plastic cover on the "A" pillar down on my thigh whenever it would rain, or when in a car wash. I looked up the issue via Google and found that it was due to the connection of the down tube to the fitting on the pillar. I tried blowing it out with compressed air just in case it was full of debris, and heard air whistling out the bottom. 
I then thought it was time to address the connection of the tube. To get to it, you must remove the sunvisor base bolt and pull the three pieces of plastic trim away from the windshield. You will see how the tube connects to the drain fitting under there. It appears the down tube becomes oval shaped in the round fitting, allowing water to flow round the outside of the tube. I popped the tube away from the fitting. Then using a Q tip, I applied bathroom caulk around the inside edges of the tube/fitting connection. I also ran some around the outside of the fitting / tube. I reassembled and then did the other side.
A heavy rain the next day and several days later....no leaks!


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## Ged546 (Aug 18, 2018)

*The usual A pillar leak*

Hi all,
I know this is an old thread but hoping someone her can help.
I too have a leak on the (UK) passenger side A pillar. I've done what most suggest; lubricated the seals and checked the hose/nipple connection inside the A pillar. Still getting leaks 

The top seal above the leaking A pillar doesn't sit as flush as the driver side one-could this be an issue?
Getting more than a little frustrated and the Missus is fed up of getting wet knees :facepalm:


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## Raffman (Oct 31, 2007)

*Alternate roof leak source*

I mentioned this sometime earlier in the thread, but it bears repeating.

I had a "roof" leak on the driver's side front carpet which defied diagnosis. My dealer had gone through and checked or replaced all the roof seals, but I was still getting water under the front carpet after a heavy rain. After much effort, they finally found that the rubber boot in the door hinge that routed wires from body to the door had come detached from the body, and water was running down the gap between the body and door and entering that hole. After replacing that boot the water problem went away. I later checked the passenger side and noticed the same problem, but was able to fix it myself with some sealant.


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## wcumming (Feb 23, 2020)

*Thanks for all who posted. I just bought a 1/2 bottle of Krytol 105 on eBay for $24.45*

On 03/26/20, after reading all these posts, I purchased "GENUINE Krytox GPL-105 OIL LUBRICANT "in a 1/2oz needle nose bottle on eBay for $24.45 including tax and shipping.
Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-Kr...496774?hash=item5649fce086:g:AOwAAOSwRLZUFONU. 
There are lots of other vendors selling it as well as bottles with Dupont labels in various size bottles, needle nose bottles, and dabber bottles. It says it is genuine Dupont in the description, but the bottle label only has "Genuine" in red in the Dupont logo style, but I am going to take a chance. I appreciate everyone who posted on how to solve this problem.


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## wcumming (Feb 23, 2020)

*I was able to straighten the "deformations" with my thumbnail*



darien said:


> Michael:
> I have a quick question to ask you. The pinches on the moonroof, after you applied Krytox, were you guys able deformed the pinches back to normal stage? In another words, no more pinches?
> I have pinches on both sides of my moonroof seals. The last time I brought it in to the VW service, the mechanics said it was normal for all EOS. However there was an EOS in the showroom didn't have that pinches at all.


While applying the lubricant (Krytox purchased from eBay) I was able to straighten the deformations using my fingernail. Have used this product twice now and no problems.


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