# Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons?



## alphaseinor (Mar 20, 2004)

Hello, 
Lots of questions:
I am thinking of buying a TDI.
What are the major pros and cons?
I have heard a lot of reliability issues, I drive about 50,000 miles per year and always do my own maintenance on time (by the book)?
Which is more reliable a German, Brazilian, or Mexican Jetta (I think those are the places)?
What is the real MPG of these cars when "driven" (I am interested in the performance as well as the MPG)?
Thanks,
alphaseinor


----------



## tjl (Mar 24, 2001)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (alphaseinor)*

Most of the reliability problems are component failures (mass air flow sensor failing, etc.), not assembly errors.
The locations of final assembly for cars for the US market are:
Jetta sedan, Beetle: Mexico
Golf: Brazil
Jetta wagon: Germany
For more, see http://forums.tdiclub.com .


_Modified by tjl at 3:54 PM 9-24-2004_


----------



## garethusa (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (alphaseinor)*

Well, I crossed over to TDI earlier this year and have been happy and impressed. 
I think there will be only a couple of things that may be considered a turn-off when it comes to buying a TDI, but as soon as you experience all the other great things, they are quite easy to live with.
1. Noise factor. If you want a smooth quiet ride, even at stops, the TDI may not be as quiet as you'd like. However, I love the "gurgling" sound of the engine - really sounds like a VW to me, when you are at stops or idle. Yet, while driving around, the gurgling sounds just blends in and becomes one with the road. 
2. Oil Changes are a bit on the pricey side than regular gas engine vehicles.
The major things I like about the TDI-PD, if you are getting a TDI model year 2004 and forward, are:
1. Great fuel economy; I fill up every 3 to 4 weeks. I've only had to fill up twice in the last two months.
2. Lot of pep and zoom compared to the 2.0L engine (I had this previous to the TDI).
3. I like its "gurgling" sound. 
4. The car starts immediately in the winter. No need to wait for glow plugs to warm up. I have never had a problem with the car not being able to start in cold cold weather or in bad rain. 
The new TDI is nothing like the TDIs of the past or diesels of yesterday. With exception of using diesel fuel and saving money on filling up, the car feels very much like a normal car - yet you know you are driving something very special.
I get approx. 39-40 mpg in the city, which is great. I drove from DC to Houston, TX, on less than 2 tanks.
My wagon was made in Germany. The TDI sedans - Jetta, are from Mexico. The Golfs are from Brazil. The Passat comes in TDI as well as the Touareg, they both are from Germany too. The Beetle use to come in diesel - not sure if they still do.
There is definitely a diesel for you. The best thing is to just go test drive one. Drive all the models in diesel too, so you can compare what fits your needs best.
I love the Jetta Wagon! But secretly, I wish I could have them all.


----------



## tjl (Mar 24, 2001)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (garethusa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *garethusa* »_
My wagon was made in Germany. The TDI sedans - Jetta, are from Mexico. The Golfs are from Brazil. The Passat comes in TDI as well as the Touareg, they both are from Germany too. The Beetle use to come in diesel - not sure if they still do.


Isn't the Touareg made in Slovakia?


----------



## garethusa (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (tjl)*

I know that my wagon was made in Germany however the engine is from Poland.
Not 100% sure of the origin of the Touareg but it's close enough to Germany rather than Brazil or Mexico.
Didn't mean to be "misinformative".


----------



## PlatinumGLS (Aug 2, 2003)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (garethusa)*

If you are interested in a TDI be sure to check out http://www.TDIclub.com http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (garethusa)*

Touareg is assembled in Bratislava, Slovakia.
Final assembly points mean little to quality and durability.
The major factor in that is the assembly point of components, and the supplier involved.


----------



## alphaseinor (Mar 20, 2004)

I got a great response from the forum, and I think I will be going for a test drive on saturday. It's good to hear they don't seem to have many assembly issues. 
I have also heard of a relay that goes bad. would it be a good idea on a '04 to have one in the glovebox, or should I wait a while?
Thanks!
alphaseinor


----------



## Instrument 37 (Oct 23, 2001)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (alphaseinor)*

Deisel is now as much or even more than regular gas now


----------



## garethusa (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (Instrument 37)*

You'll still end up paying less at the gas pump though using diesel.
If a VW tank holds 14.5 gallons, and you get in the city, approx. the following:
24 miles in a regular gas engine, that is approx. = 348 miles per tank
in a diesel however,
38 miles in a diesel tank, that is approx. = 551 miles per tank.
for a couple pennies more per gallon, I'd rather get the 551 miles per tank. 14.5 x 2 cents = that's 29 cents more than your tank of regular gasoline.
i think we call all spare about a quarter.


----------



## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (garethusa)*

somewhere, a while back, someone had a chart showing average diesel consumption savings vs. cost of diesel engine over 2.0 Liter gas, and at 10000 miles a year it took about 8 years to break even.. I will see if I can find it.


----------



## garethusa (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (Corradodrvrfnd)*

Hmmm...I would think it would be a bit quicker than 8 years.
I am not sure what the average cost of fuel stated on the monroney label is based on, ex - 10K , 12K, or 15K miles per year. For the 2.0, annual fuel expense is like $850 or so. Where as the diesel it is estimated at 480 or so. That could be about five years to recap on the engine upgrade alone.
I am sure you would recover the cost a lot quicker if you did happen to drive more than 15K per year. 
Not from my own personal experience as I just got the TDI, but another benefit is that your engine will last longer than a regular gas engine.


----------



## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (garethusa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *garethusa* »_
I am sure you would recover the cost a lot quicker if you did happen to drive more than 15K per year. 
Not from my own personal experience as I just got the TDI, but another benefit is that your engine will last longer than a regular gas engine.

Agreed about the 15000 plus miles a year.
That is merely an argument for someone who buys a TDI purely for the fuel savings.
There are lots of other reasons to buy a TDI, less maintenance, longer lasting, more durable, less frequent fuel ups, ect...


----------



## tjl (Mar 24, 2001)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (alphaseinor)*


_Quote »_I have also heard of a relay that goes bad.

On the 1998-early 2001 ALH engines, relay 109 can fail. Later 2001-2003 ALH engines came with a better relay which does not fail as often (outside of the relay is gray; the failure prone version is black).


----------



## CheddaJetta (Jan 14, 2004)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (alphaseinor)*

Buy the TDI, you won't regret it. My dad bought one last year (90hp model) and he also drives ~50k per year. His averages slightly north of 50mpg -- figure 90% highway (with manual tranny). The only issue he has had is pitting of his stock 15" rims (which they wouldn't cover because he had >12k miles on the car at that time). Oil changes are pricier than a gasser too ($65-100 at the dealer IIRC). Other than that, it's solid. He has had some minor fuel gelling instances, but that won't be even a consideration if you're in TX. 
Great cars, wish i had bought one instead of my 2.0


----------



## 2.0 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (Corradodrvrfnd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Corradodrvrfnd* »_somewhere, a while back, someone had a chart showing average diesel consumption savings vs. cost of diesel engine over 2.0 Liter gas, and at 10000 miles a year it took about 8 years to break even.. I will see if I can find it.

Resale values are a lot higher on TDI's than gassers though. I wouldn't buy one just for the thriftiness. They are great cars.


----------



## alphaseinor (Mar 20, 2004)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (2.0)*

Since I drive the car more than 600 miles per week, I think the gas savings over my pontiac grand prix (about 24 mpg combined) will shave a little bit off the calculation. 
How is the mileage when the engine is still being broken in?
How long does it take to break the engine in?


----------



## roblu (Feb 8, 2001)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (alphaseinor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alphaseinor* »_Since I drive the car more than 600 miles per week, I think the gas savings over my pontiac grand prix (about 24 mpg combined) will shave a little bit off the calculation. 
How is the mileage when the engine is still being broken in?
How long does it take to break the engine in?

About 32 mpg in all city driving with A/C on in an auto Golf while breaking in the engine. We saw roughly 2 mpg jump after 1000 miles on the clock.
Just came back from 1200-mile roadtrip to Canada. We got 42 mpg on the first half-tank (gotta fill up before crossing. too expensive in Canada), with most drivings done on 2-lane cournty roads in the mountanis. 38 mpg on the 2nd full tank (lots of city driving). And we still have about 2/3 of a tank left after 350 miles.








Pro: 
1. Better than average mpg. Our old Accord 4-cyl. only averaged 31 mpg on a trip from DC to Chicago with mostly highway driving.
2. Unique factor. Nothing beats the look on fellow motorists' faces when they hear your diesel. 
3. Redefines the word "smokin".







Usually you'll find Civics & other econoboxes in a cloud of smoke when you are pulling away from a stoplight.
Con:
1. Redefines the word "smokin". All that smoke, man. The hatch is practically black after the above mentioned trip. Need to wash the car this weekend.
2. Availability of diesel. Some places just plain don't have them! My cousin is considering a TDI, but there isn't any gas station in his area that sells diesel.


----------



## PlatinumGLS (Aug 2, 2003)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (roblu)*

If you are reeally interested in a TDI, like I said earlier...check out http://www.TDIclub.com
After that I would recommend getting a manual transmission TDI. My five speed got about 42 MPG the first few thousand miles. I am up to 24,000 miles now and it seems like every tank gets better and better.
I have no problem finding a diesel station around here. You can get around 700 miles per tank of fuel which means you should always have plenty of time to fill up. The low fuel light comes on at 1.9 gallons remaining and if you average over 40MPG per tank then you shouldn't have a problem finding a station that sells diesel within 75 miles before you run empty.


----------



## PlatinumGLS (Aug 2, 2003)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (PlatinumGLS)*

Also, I have never seen a large amount of soot built up anywhere except for on the exhaust itself. I have followed my car before and you can only notice a little puff of smoke with wide open throttle.


----------



## roblu (Feb 8, 2001)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (PlatinumGLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PlatinumGLS* »_Also, I have never seen a large amount of soot built up anywhere except for on the exhaust itself. I have followed my car before and you can only notice a little puff of smoke with wide open throttle.

Smoke? It rarely happens. But when it happens, you'd be looking for the sun! LOL You know that's an exageration. The thing I noticed... If I haven't floored the car for about 2-3 weeks, and do a WOT from stop, a lot of soot will come out of the pipe. Also, from the roadtrip, under heavier load and on a long uphill climb, I can notice smoke from the rearview mirrors. Not as much as the stoplight smoke, but you will see it.
We have no problems finding diesel on the trip, mainly because we use Interstates and the white-shield numbered highways, which are also frequently used by truckers. Given the range of the car, we did not have any problems filling up.
And yes, get M/T if possible. My wife drives the TDI everyday to work and she doesn't know how to drive a stick. And given the traffic around DC area, even I am thinking about getting an A/T for my next car. But for the ultimate fuel economy, get the M/T with your TDI. Now, the TDI usually runs 450 miles before the light comes up. And that's with all stop-and-go traffic with A/C on. Still good, considering her old Protege5 only gets about 300 miles on a good week.


----------



## garethusa (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (roblu)*

yep, i drive in daily DC stop and go traffic......when i don't "vent" the tank, and just fill it up normally - i can go approx. 450-460 miles before the fuel light comes on; usually i can do about 500-510 per tank.
with venting, and stop and go traffic galore, i can get to the 520 or so miles before the fuel light comes on and closer to 570-580 miles per tank.


----------



## jchag75 (Aug 3, 2003)

tdiclub.com will have you up 'till 4AM and turn you into a diesel fanatic. I am a recovering TDI'er. You'll find the answer t life's mysteries lie within a TDI!!!


----------



## deki337 (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: (jchag75)*

i have TDI PD for 6 months now and i like it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## lilredjettawagon (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (deki337)*

Like some of the others have suggested, http://www.tdiclub.com is the place to ask (and get answers) to your TDI related questions. Proud owner of an '03 TDI Jetta wagon. 
Love the mileage, not a single warranty issue, wonderful local TDI owners in N. Texas area, so so dealership (buying experience was horrible, service experience way much better). Love the storage capacity at the back, could use a little more rear seat room though.
Excellent driving characteristics, love my manual transmission. Next one will be DSG though








Feel free to IM me if you would like to ask any more questions. Good luck










_Modified by lilredjettawagon at 8:19 PM 10-4-2004_


----------



## ort5 (May 5, 2000)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (alphaseinor)*

Just an FYI. My Golf GL (2 door) was built in Germany. I have 138k miles on mine, and I get 48-52 mpg every tank no matter what I do. I drive the snot out the the thing, and I really love the engine. I get around 700 miles out of every tank.
I put some .205 injectors in around 10k miles ago, and the performance is better for sure. The mileage did not seem to change at all.
If you drive 50k miles per year, it seems like a no brainer to me. 
50,000 miles / 50 mpg = 1000 gallons or approx. $2000 annual fuel cost for a TDI
50,000 miles / 25 mpg = 2000 gallons or approx. $4000 annual fuel cost for your Pontiac
The above assumes around $2/gal prices for each.
Dave


----------



## dunhamjr (May 21, 2002)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (Instrument 37)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Instrument 37* »_Deisel is now as much or even more than regular gas now

That may be true but shouldnt you really put premium in the vr6 or 1.8t.... and if you choose a 2.0 over a TDI you need to rethink the decision.
I had a mk3 Jetta with a 2.0 for 3 years. 3 years I wish I would have been driving my TDI instead.
My last fillup Reg Gas was $2.12/gal, Prem Gas was $2.29/gal and Diesel was $2.21 per gallon.
Also even though the TDI-PD window sticker says 38mpg, many people are getting much higher.
I have an older TDI (2001) but I regularly go 650+ miles per tank, with a high of 762 miles on 1 tank of diesel.


----------



## dunhamjr (May 21, 2002)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (Corradodrvrfnd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Corradodrvrfnd* »_somewhere, a while back, someone had a chart showing average diesel consumption savings vs. cost of diesel engine over 2.0 Liter gas, and at 10000 miles a year it took about 8 years to break even.. I will see if I can find it.

At 10,000 miles per yer the savings MAY take that long if you are buying new... etc.
But I have had my car almost 6 months and already have over 13,000 miles. Also for most of the time I have owned my car diesel has been cheaper then the premium gas I used to buy for my old car.
I paid $12k for my car. After a quick search at http://www.autotrader.com on todays pricing for gas power cars similar to mine... I didn't pay a premium to get the diesel engine. So for me, the savings was instant.


----------



## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (dunhamjr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dunhamjr* »_
At 10,000 miles per yer the savings MAY take that long if you are buying new... etc.
But I have had my car almost 6 months and already have over 13,000 miles. Also for most of the time I have owned my car diesel has been cheaper then the premium gas I used to buy for my old car.
I paid $12k for my car. After a quick search at http://www.autotrader.com on todays pricing for gas power cars similar to mine... I didn't pay a premium to get the diesel engine. So for me, the savings was instant.

That was just an example... Most people have the unrealistic expectation that a diesel will always give you instant savings, which isn't true.
If you drive over 15K a year, you will make up for the cost of diesel engine and fuel very quickly, and besides that engine life and durability is proven to be longer than gasoline...


----------



## CheddaJetta (Jan 14, 2004)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (dunhamjr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dunhamjr* »_
That may be true but shouldnt you really put premium in the vr6 or 1.8t.... and if you choose a 2.0 over a TDI you need to rethink the decision.
I had a mk3 Jetta with a 2.0 for 3 years. 3 years I wish I would have been driving my TDI instead.

This is precisely the same mistake i made, except it's a MKIV wishing i'd bought a 1.8T instead of MKIII wishing for a TDI. Only reason i wouldn't get the TDI is that i drive only ~10k per year.
And yes, 1.8Tizzles and VR6s need 91+ octane.


----------



## adoniram7 (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (CheddaJetta)*

I drive just about 15k a year. I'm really not going to get any value out 
of having a diesel for quite a long time, in terms of fuel savings.
Maintenance has been cheap so far - oil changes require synthetic,
but that's every 7500 - 10,000 miles, and you can do those yourself.
I changed out the auto tranny fluid and filter without much trouble.
The timing belt needs to be changed at 80k, and that'll cost $400
done by a local guy (not the dealer, thank you!).
As a daily driver, though, especially in the DC area stop and go stuff,
my auto TDI is ideal. Jettas are *surprisingly* quiet cars. The Monsoon
sounds great, but you have to change out the head unit (i.e. the speakers
and the amp are quite good) to get decent sound. 
The power tuning is endless. The auto tranny is quite strong, so 135 hp and 
250+ ft. lbs. of torque is a reasonable goal. This makes passing on the 
highway point and shoot. Oddly, increased power levels don't appear to 
affect the mpg.
The diesel sounds loud from the outside. Inside, like I said before,
it's quiet. The engine purrs - it has a very, very reassuring sound
and feeling, like it could go forever under any circumstances (and it 
probably could). The new PD diesel engines are quieter.
Any suspension, brake, or wheel package that's on any Jetta IV
will go on the equivalent TDI, so you can buy used and some a bunch
of money.
Jettas a very handsome cars, also. Positive feedback from pretty much
everyone. What's not to like?


----------



## Michael Blue (Sep 30, 1999)

*Re: Thinking of buying a Jetta TDI, Pros and Cons? (adoniram7)*

Good points, all...
I'd opt for the diesel as well...


----------

