# FSI vs TFSI



## TURBOJETTA420 (Mar 16, 2004)

Looking to get a new car and interested in the A3. Found some good deals online. Budget is is 16000-19000 and found cars with anywhere between 26 and 45K Mi. Majority if not all have the fsi engine. Looking throughout the forum Ive read there are some issues involving the FSI. Car will remain stock except for maybe an intake......maybe chip and intake. Should I be hesitant to buy an A3 with a FSI engine?
Thanks


----------



## NYCameron (Nov 17, 2010)

I would be (if I had to make the choice again)

If the cam follower hasn't been replaced on the FSI engine, chances are the cam/cam follower/high pressure fuel pump will go bad, and depending on where you replace it, can cost you upwards of $1,000. BUT Audi of America JUST began replacing the cam/cam follower/hpfp, so I guess it's safer for your pocket now.

With the TSI engine, which is 08.5+[facelift] (correct me if I'm wrong), you can get the 2.0t with QUATTRO (but it might possibly be more than 19k)

If this was 2 months ago, definitely go with the TSI if you can afford it. Now that AoA is fixing the horrible plague that is the cam follower issue, it can be a toss up.

FSI: Cheaper/older, and chance of car having to be in the shop for cam follower issue

TSI: More expensive/newer, has the option of 2.0t quattro

There are more pros and cons which I am sure my fellow fourtituders will add on


----------



## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

Cameron covered one of the biggest issues with the FSI vs. TSI/TFSI. I should clarify that AoA won't cover the HPFP follower issue unless yours has failed, so they won't just update you to the new cam and all that unless yours is destroyed.

Another improvement with the TSI is that it uses a timing chain instead of the belt on the FSI, which can break causing serious damage. Although, I haven't heard of many cases of this happening...it's something that needs to be changed around 75-100K miles, depending on where you live, how you drive, how brave you are, etc.

Other minor differences...the TSI has lower compression pistons (and possibly stronger internals), and the fuel system is more robust than the FSI, both of which lends itself to easier modifications if you decided you wanted to slap a bigger turbo on it someday or something.

Anyway, if you want to do any mods, I wouldn't worry about an intake as they really don't offer much, if any, performance improvement...they only add noise. If you do get an FSI and want to work on the car yourself, such as checking the cam follower, etc. then you might want to get a "filter on a stick" style intake so that you can remove the engine cover/airbox and not have to go through the hassle of undoing the factory style intake and remove the engine cover every time you go to check something. It's a minor thing, but still an inconvenience.

If it was me, shopping for an A3 knowing what I know now, I would try to find a 2009 2.0T Quattro. If you do get an FSI car, just try to find one with low miles that is still under warranty and has maintenance records, especially frequent oil changes :thumbup:


----------



## mre_2011 (Mar 9, 2011)

This is a great thread because it answers some of the questions I had about these engines. So is cam follower no longer an issue on the TFSI engine, due to change in design, or is it something that simply hasn't come up due to relative age of the TFSI vs. the FSI? On TFSI engines, should owners proactively check the cam follower?


----------



## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

mre_2011 said:


> This is a great thread because it answers some of the questions I had about these engines. So is cam follower no longer an issue on the TFSI engine, due to change in design, or is it something that simply hasn't come up due to relative age of the TFSI vs. the FSI? On TFSI engines, should owners proactively check the cam follower?


On the TSI/TFSI engine, the HPFP was redesigned with a proper roller follower and a 4 lobes rather than the flat tappet follower and 3 lobes with the FSI. So it is more reliable and aids in fueling. I don't think you would really need to check the roller follower on the TSI, but I don't have one so I might be wrong :laugh:


----------



## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

Great tread guys. I had to do exactly the same descision few months ago - fsi vs. tfsi. At the end I choose 2009 A3 fwd for $13K. It has a lot mileage but with all the service records on hand I think I did better choice. 6 months and 10k miles later I am happy with it.


----------



## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

FSI is why I sold my B7 A4. No lie.


----------



## trucaliber (May 13, 2009)

If you can afford a TSI then go for it. 08.5+ received a facelift but the new redesigned 2.0 is a complete revamp. Im holding on to my 09 a3 for a long long time. But my wife's 06 A4 with the fsi wont be so lucky.


----------



## Bronco (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi folks,

not enough knowledge here - what is the difference between FSI / TFSI and when did Audi make the change ? Does this apply to 2.0 T only, or 3.2 as well ?

Bronco


----------



## Chadd (Jan 27, 2003)

Bronco said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> not enough knowledge here - what is the difference between FSI / TFSI and when did Audi make the change ? Does this apply to 2.0 T only, or 3.2 as well ?
> 
> Bronco


It only applies to 2.0 t I think this thread covers most of the differences.

I have a fsi and have had the cam shaft issue and a pcv issue all within the short year I have owned it. It's great that Audi replaced the cam shaft but the down time and loaner I could do without. Pulling the fuel pump every other oil change isn't so wonderful either. I would discourage you from buying a fsi if you can help it. 

Did they can the design of the radiator fans in the face lift model? I just replaced both of those to the tune of 675$(had to pay dealer parts price). I have never had those go bad in any car I've owned.


----------



## Maitre Absolut (Aug 5, 2009)

trucaliber said:


> 08.5+ received a facelift but the new redesigned 2.0 is a complete revamp.


correction, the 2008.5 received the TFSI however it is not a facelifted model. It is a unique half year combo of pre-facelift and TFSI.


----------



## everfresh59 (Jul 26, 2010)

I just had my follower replaced, it was through and through... Hpfp is now warped on the header, and cam has some light scratching. Headed to Audi this week for a complete replacement. As for any other issues I have yet to bother checking but will do so after this thread....


----------



## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

IMHO, if you like to work on your car yourself, it makes little difference between the FSI and TFSI. If not, stick to the TFSI.


----------



## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

Found under VWVortex technical section post by [email protected]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4706324

TSI 08.5+









FSI pre 08.5


----------



## RedLineRob (Feb 8, 2009)

man i heard that APR has even been swapping out the FSI's in there race cars for the TSI's 

i wish i could do a motor swap


----------



## NYCameron (Nov 17, 2010)

RedLineRob said:


> man i heard that APR has even been swapping out the FSI's in there race cars for the TSI's
> 
> i wish i could do a motor swap


:thumbup: you and me both...


----------



## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

I always wanted to know what the difference was between these two motors. 

2.0T FSI 
2.0 TFSI 

A lot goes on with the placement of that space. :thumbup:


----------



## TURBOJETTA420 (Mar 16, 2004)

is there a way to find out if the car is fsi or tfsi without looking under the hood? LIke VIN number or anything


----------



## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

TURBOJETTA420 said:


> is there a way to find out if the car is fsi or tfsi without looking under the hood? LIke VIN number or anything


 Model year. 2006-2008.5 is FSI, 2008.5-Present is TSI/TFSI. Basically, if it's a facelifted A3, it's a TSI/TFSI. The pre-facelifted 2008.5 cars with TSI/TFSI are few and far between. I only know one dude on here who has one.


----------



## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

RedLineRob said:


> man i heard that APR has even been swapping out the FSI's in there race cars for the TSI's
> 
> i wish i could do a motor swap


 I had a conversation with the Unitronic guys at Wuste about the insane capabilities of the TSI engine, so it wouldn't surprise me one bit if this were proven to be true.


----------



## poli84 (Dec 15, 2009)

tiptronic said:


> Found under VWVortex technical section post by [email protected]
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4706324
> 
> ...


 Do you know if the TSI engine cover will directly bolt on to a TFSI engine with an aftermarket intake (no factory airbox)?


----------



## ...um (Apr 15, 2011)

TBomb said:


> Cameron covered one of the biggest issues with the FSI vs. TSI/TFSI. I should clarify that AoA won't cover the HPFP follower issue unless yours has failed, so they won't just update you to the new cam and all that unless yours is destroyed.
> 
> Another improvement with the TSI is that it uses a timing chain instead of the belt on the FSI, which can break causing serious damage. Although, I haven't heard of many cases of this happening...it's something that needs to be changed around 75-100K miles, depending on where you live, how you drive, how brave you are, etc.
> 
> ...


 my buddy has a 2006 a3 w/ manual tranny. he had his timing belt replaced at the recommended mileage by cherry hill audi in nj. barely over a month past the year warranty his car died. turned out his timing belt broke and the engine had to be replaced. even though it was likely crappy work on the part of the dealer, they only covered $2000 of the $6000 for the new engine.


----------



## TURBOJETTA420 (Mar 16, 2004)

TBomb said:


> Model year. 2006-2008.5 is FSI, 2008.5-Present is TSI/TFSI. Basically, if it's a facelifted A3, it's a TSI/TFSI. The pre-facelifted 2008.5 cars with TSI/TFSI are few and far between. I only know one dude on here who has one.


 I understand that but people dont list their cars as being 2008.5, Ive seen a bunch posted online and sometimes there isnt always a pic with the hood up. But I have seen some 2009 in the $23k range, so even if a pic isnt posted I know it has the TFSI in it.


----------



## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

You can tell the difference between 06-08 and the later models by the hood, front bumper and the headlights. Audi changed them on the facelift. Mine is 2009 (build Nov 2008). It is hard to tell from the pictures online but if you know what to look for you can do it.


----------



## theblue (Aug 16, 2001)

it's probably also worth noting that for ever story on here about a blown up FSI motor there are probably 1000 people with no issues who obviously never made any posts saying things are going great.


----------



## Maitre Absolut (Aug 5, 2009)

Evo V said:


> You can tell the difference between 06-08 and the later models by the hood, front bumper and the headlights. Audi changed them on the facelift. Mine is 2009 (build Nov 2008). It is hard to tell from the pictures online but if you know what to look for you can do it.


he's talking about the 2008.5 which is not facelifted but has TFSI engine. You can't tell it apart based on looks.


----------



## maverickar15 (Mar 7, 2011)

I think you have to pop the hood to see at least the engine cover.


----------



## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

theblue said:


> it's probably also worth noting that for ever story on here about a blown up FSI motor there are probably 1000 people with no issues who obviously never made any posts saying things are going great.


This.


----------



## Tcardio (Mar 19, 2009)

Its just too easy to go stage 3 apr on a tsi!


----------



## Tcardio (Mar 19, 2009)

I will also add what a waste to see the new R with an fsi


----------



## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

tcardio said:


> Its just too easy to go stage 3 apr on a tsi!


Do you even have to upgrade the fuel delivery system to go Stage 3 on the TSI?


----------



## TurboSharef (Jun 2, 2014)

Maitre Absolut said:


> he's talking about the 2008.5 which is not facelifted but has TFSI engine. You can't tell it apart based on looks.


Hi guys I know this thread is almost 6 years old now but i thought i'd share what I found. I'm over in the VW MK4 section with an 03 Wolfsburg and an 01 Golf (gf's car). this spring im looking to replace both cars, my Wolfsburg will be sold for an MK6 GTI and the Golf for an A3. When researching the differences between the model years I found this whole TFSI vs FSI discussion. I found a quick way to tell if an 08 has the FSI or TFSI motor without popping the hood by looking in the interior

1). Double din or single din radio (double din is 2008.5 as part of the updates with the TFSI motor)
2). MFD in the center of the gauges. if it is a red background with red lettering on the screen this is pre-update and has the FSI motor if it, if it has a red screen with white lettering then this is the updated 2008.5 model with the TSFI motor


Thought id share that info for anyone else looking to find out the differences. hopefully ill be back here with updates on an A3 in the new year


----------



## MurkyRivers (Dec 4, 2016)

TurboSharef said:


> Hi guys I know this thread is almost 6 years old now but i thought i'd share what I found. I'm over in the VW MK4 section with an 03 Wolfsburg and an 01 Golf (gf's car). this spring im looking to replace both cars, my Wolfsburg will be sold for an MK6 GTI and the Golf for an A3. When researching the differences between the model years I found this whole TFSI vs FSI discussion. I found a quick way to tell if an 08 has the FSI or TFSI motor without popping the hood by looking in the interior
> 
> 1). Double din or single din radio (double din is 2008.5 as part of the updates with the TFSI motor)
> 2). MFD in the center of the gauges. if it is a red background with red lettering on the screen this is pre-update and has the FSI motor if it, if it has a red screen with white lettering then this is the updated 2008.5 model with the TSFI motor
> ...


Number 2 is not true. I have a TFSI 08 model that is pre-facelift and does not have a color DIS. It has the red DIS.


----------

