# RCD 510 low level out directly to amplifier [theory]



## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

*EDIT: This theory has been tested and confirmed to work. There have been very slight variations and additions to the original theory which, in my opinion, has made the install process more simple and clean (ie. the harness manufacturer and model).*

Hello, vortexers. Over the past few years of owning my car, I've tossed around the idea of upgrading the speakers and adding an amplifier to the system. Before getting into the nitty-gritty, I'd like to make some disclaimers. 1) I've done an absurd amount of searching on this topic. If you find a thread or blog which answers most if not all of the following questions, please post it. 2) My understanding of the technical aspects of car audio is at an average level. If I have stated anything that is incorrect, please don't hesitate to help me make corrections. 3) Some images used in this post don't belong to me. They are being used as a reference, and I don't take credit for them.

*Current Set-Up/Equipment:*

I own a 2010 Volkswagen Jetta, Wolfsburg Edition. From the factory, it has been equipped with a "Premium 8" set-up (RCD510, no external amp, external passive crossovers, three-way front speakers, two-way rear speakers). As of this post, a car audio shop installed a subwoofer and mono-channel amplifier. The amp gets its signal from a Line-Out Converter (LOC). I also own a VAG-Com cable for coding.

*What I Want:*

Like I said in the intro, I wish to install an amplifier for the speakers, and then later on upgrade the speakers.

*My Theory:*

From searching and experience, I see that the RCD510 has the option to be set to use a "Sound System" within the VCDS software. From what I understand, coding the radio to behave this way will cause it to output a pre-amp signal through the existing speaker wires. Each speaker channel (ie. front left) is driven by 2 wires, a positive and negative (or red/black, +/-, positive/ground, high/low ...). The standard cable terminal in car audio for a pre-amp signal is an RCA connector. So in order to get the RCD510 signal to an amplifier's signal inputs, you would need to have a wire in which one end is bare speaker wire, and the other end being an RCA connector. To do this, you would take an RCA connector/pigtail and solder the center pin to the positive side of some speaker wire, and the outside sleeve of the connector to the negative side. Since there are four channels, you will need a total of 4 of these wires. That would look somewhat like this:










Since the RCD510 doesn't have conventional speaker terminals, you would have to cut the speaker wires in the middle of the harness and solder the speaker wires just made onto them. However, doing this would leave a lot a difficulty if you wished to return the system back to stock later on. So, picking up a replacement harness (p/n SOT-976) to use and modify would be a good idea. After putting that together you would have a product which is wired like this:










That just leaves one connection to be made: amp to the speakers. Soldering on some extra length of speaker wire to the bare wires on the cut harness should do the trick. After all is done, the setup would look like this:










*The Question(s):*

Assuming that the radio is coded to run in "Sound System" mode, and all the connections are made correctly, _will this work_? 

Specifically, if this would work, I'd like to know how the sound quality would theoretically be. Please leave your feedback with any information, concerns, or questions to help each other further understand what I'm trying to get at here. Thanks for reading and whatever help you provide.


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## vw norm (Jun 2, 2012)

You may want to check here for pin-out designations for the back panel connectors. There is an aux output on #4 and possibly on #6, but it doesn't appear to be labeled correctly.

http://www.my-gti.com/1313/volkswagen-rcd-510-pin-assignments


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

no need for a theory here......depending the amplifier your using, most decent quality amps come with high level inputs, basically cut the speaker leads coming from the radio, go into the high level inputs (usually a harness that plugs into the amplifier) then run the outputs from the amplifier back to the speaker side of the connections you cut.

keep in mind if the radio doesn't see a load on the rear speaker leads it shuts off the fader function and you're still limited by the quality of the oe source unit which is still responsible for the EQ and output stage.


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

NFrazier, I understand that a high level input is a solution, but I've always been under the assumption that a low level signal presents higher sound quality than its high level counterpart. Is this incorrect?


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

rtrev2442 said:


> NFrazier, I understand that a high level input is a solution, but I've always been under the assumption that a low level signal presents higher sound quality than its high level counterpart. Is this incorrect?


well that depends, highlevel out of a radio that has dedicated lowlevel preouts, yes as that radio has dedicated circuitry. low level out of a radio that is just converted down and is still the same quality components that was being used in the first place....no. Also it really comes down to tuning and proper level matching (gain - it's not a volume knob, its to level match the input into the amplifier) to ensure that you're getting undistorted signal.

but in all honesty say a Pioneer headunit distorts highlevel at 37/40 and lowlevel at 37/40. Factory HU are usually not that great in having distortion free output for the vast majority of their range (VW radios are also notorious for having a great notch filter in the midrange frequencies drastically reducing the midrange reproduction).


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Okay, so from my understanding of that, your suggestion is to add an amplifier that will accept a high level input? I would like to note that I want to keep the current stock radio. I've never been a fan of the looks of aftermarket head units.

I know there are a lot of variables when it comes to the production of high quality audio, and the quality of audio in itself is a subjective matter, but I'm a visual learner, so I'd like to attempt to put this into numbers.

So let's make a scale. 0 being absolutely terrible audio reproduction and 10 being the ideal sound.

With that, let's say that an aftermarket head unit wired to an amp using a low level signal will produce audio quality rated 10. I'd like to point out that I understand there are other components you can add in order to process the signal in hopes of cleaning it up, but for the sake of simplicity, the former will be a 10.

_In general, what would you rate the potential audio quality of a stock head unit sending its high level signal to an amplifier?_ Of course the amp would have to accept and be able to process this signal level.

Thanks for your insight!


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

It looks like this might actually work, but does anyone else have an opinion?


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## Silly_Rabbit (Feb 6, 2014)

NFrazier said:


> no need for a theory here......depending the amplifier your using, most decent quality amps come with high level inputs,


WOW since when ? I suppose "most quality pro amps come that way too" ? (who needs fancy balanced inputs) Excuse me for being tart === IMHO (installing car-fi since '89) the only amps that come w/ hi level inputs are the ones they sell at the Arena- (OK not really) Actually though, hi-level inputs are never as good as a RCA (especially newer heads putting out 2v +) There are a multitude of line level converters available from junk to really good - they all perform the same function, some do it better than others. IF you can find one (dont know if they make 'em anymore) ALpine used to make a "powered" LOC (line output converter) that was the cats ass. (when I say "powered" it had circuitry (noise reduction and such) that needed to be "powered" (by 12vdc) 

I havent done a new car for years though so I'm "out of the loop" what you propose should work like a dream (if able to re-program unit, etc) I would think an aftermarket harness would be available for this scenario- check w/ some shops ? When you pull the trigger and start cutting wires, I would get a (generic) harness to wire in-line so when it comes time to remove for resale, its plug and play== ez pz == I say Do it right and install the proper LOC, get an amp w/RCA inputs and be done. Any amp that has speaker level inputs (IMHPO) is crap - period - also theres no such thing as "distortion free" if there was then amplifiers wouldn't use distortion as part of the rating factors== also keep in mind distortion ratings are all over the map, I'd like to shoot the marketing Jack-Hole that decided 1% ratings is acceptable. (the same head unit 20 years ago was rated at 4-8 watts output===today its rated at 30 watts)
Sound quality and all the buzz words and factors that go into it are subject to argument and personal preference. The MOST important factor is this "Do YOU like how it sounds ?" Yes= well done = spend more cash and change something

Have fun and enjoy the results !


disclaimer - no matter what you are searching for on-line you will find someone that agrees with you or someone that doesnt - (and a lot of people that just plain don't know)


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

Silly_Rabbit said:


> WOW since when ? I suppose "most quality pro amps come that way too" ? (who needs fancy balanced inputs) Excuse me for being tart === IMHO (installing car-fi since '89) the only amps that come w/ hi level inputs are the ones they sell at the Arena- (OK not really) - *yea not really at all considering most of the amps we carry have high level input including Electtomedia products - in fact most mid to high end amplifiers have speaker level inputs* Actually though, hi-level inputs are never as good as a RCA (especially newer heads putting out 2v +) *never said they were, he wanted to take the same outputs he had and just make them into RCA IIRC as this was a while ago* There are a multitude of line level converters available from junk to really good - they all perform the same function, some do it better than others. IF you can find one (dont know if they make 'em anymore) ALpine used to make a "powered" LOC (line output converter) that was the cats ass. (when I say "powered" it had circuitry (noise reduction and such) that needed to be "powered" (by 12vdc) *if you're referencing active lineout converters there are many on the market that are pretty good*
> 
> 
> disclaimer - no matter what you are searching for on-line you will find someone that agrees with you or someone that doesnt - (and a lot of people that just plain don't know)


For what he WANTED to do, he could do with a good amplifier without all the extra hassle of reprogramming, buying speaker to rca adapters, etc.. The purpose of line-level inputs is to eliminate the need for LOCs and use circuitry thats internal in the amplifier to get the signal needed. Yes if he went and changed the radio and was using a radio that had low level output section separate than the internal amplifier than yes that would be a better option, but he doesnt. THe factory radio, in high or low settings operate on the same circuitry just is switched for high output or low output, same "quality" components.

PS: manufacturers that have high level inputs on their amplifiers:

Hertz, Audison, Focal, Alpine, Helix/Brax, not really flea market brands


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## jigubhai2001 (Oct 23, 2012)

Look into this thread

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6088193-Upgrade-Headunit-or-install-Helix-amp

This is what I have done.


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## mrturbo2 (Apr 24, 2014)

I want to add a subwoofer to my current factory radio and speakers. My amp does not have a high-input. I'd rather not buy a LOC if I don't have to. Can I just splice into a factory speaker channel and solder an rca jack onto it to feed the amp that signal?


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## dstackmasta27 (Mar 14, 2010)

It 100% depends on the amp that you're using. The Pioneer amp that I have came with little RCA leads that were meant to be wired into the speaker leads. I tapped them with easy taps and ran the speaker wire down to the amp, then wired the rca leads to the wire.


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## Kennedyrich (Jan 3, 2014)

*Vag Com Coding*

rtrev - I just read this string and your "theory" makes perfect sense to me. Did you try it? I've been looking on every forum and can find the specific coding I need for vag com. Did you find that? I'm upgrading speaker and would like to add an amp while I'm at it. But I want to make sure I'm prepared for the coding updates. Any assistance you can provide will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Rich


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## rizajj (Feb 6, 2014)

I've done exactly what the OP outlined in his "theory". Everything works great, except for the fact that I get a loud buzzing from the speakers, but only when the radio is turned off. I suppose it could be related to the fact that the amp's remote turn on is triggered by the car, not the radio, so I suppose it would work if I rewired the amp to turn on only when the radio is turned on.

but beside that, what could be causing the buzzing? any ideas?


OP, did you end up doing this? did anyone else try this kind of a setup?


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Hmm, the buzzing issue sounds weird, no pun intended. So you're saying when the car is on, amp is powered, and the radio is off, the speakers buzz? That leads me to think that the radio may still output a signal when off. Have you tried disconnecting the RCA cables from the amp while there was buzzing? If that solves the issue then the radio either still has an output when off, or the cables are picking up noise. If it's still buzzing after that, then press on the throttle a little bit to see if the frequency of the buzzing changes. If it changes, you have a ground loop problem. Never had that problem myself, so I wouldn't be able to tell you how to fix it.

I haven't gotten around to trying it out yet, as extra spending money has dropped to little to none.

If you have any pictures of the setup, I'd love to see what you've done. If not, what equipment are you using?

Good luck!


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## jigubhai2001 (Oct 23, 2012)

Get a Ground Loop Isolater...... Amazon, ebay, radio shack. ........


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Ah, there you go. Thanks for that jig. Just looked into them and it's a good thing I did. I didn't have a clue that the loop would be in the signal cable. The more you know...


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## jigubhai2001 (Oct 23, 2012)

You are welcome. ...


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## rizajj (Feb 6, 2014)

Buzzing does not change with acceleration (so no alternator whine). 
Buzzing stops if I unplug the RCAs going into the amp.
There is no buzzing if I turn the radio on, none whatsoever. 

Buzzing takes a second to kick in when the radio is off. And it has two stages of buzz--a softer one at first, and then 3 seconds later, a louder one on top of it. seems slightly louder in the right channel too, but that could just be my imagination.

thanks for the ground loop isolator recs, I'll give it a shot, but I'm not very hopeful--the amp is already grounded, and I don't get the buzz when the radio is on, so how do you think the ground loop might be involved?


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Well before I became curious about ground loop isolators last night, I wasn't aware of how they operated. My ignorance lead me to believe that they somehow interfaced with the grounding wire of the amplifier. I was wrong of course. Rather, it's a module that is placed inline with the RCA cables. It seems that they work by dissipating the differences of potential in the grounds of multiple devices. Since the buzz is solved by disconnecting the RCAs from the amp, it seems like trying out an isolator will in fact solve your issue.

Edit: To get more technical about it, imagine this. Every electrical component is connected to the same ground. All devices at the ground should present the same electrical properties. While the radio is on, it is consuming current, thus dropping the voltage between its positive and ground leads. While this happens, the ground of the radio either meets or very closely meets the grounded potential of the other electrical components running in the car. This is why the buzzing doesn't occur while it's on. While the radio is "off" it doesn't physically disconnect from the electrical systems. It still runs, but in a low power/standby mode. This is why the radio can still show the time while it's off (or at least my RCD510 does). While in this state, the resistance presented by the radio drops, and less power is dissipated. Thus, it creates a large grounding potential difference between the on and "off" states. Sorry for rambling here, but putting things like this in writing helps me to better understand concepts.


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## jigubhai2001 (Oct 23, 2012)

You got it..... that is exactly what is happening. ... When you turn off the radio. ... you are actually cutting off the amplifier stage of the radio and hence there is no more noise..... by inserting ground loop isolator you are actually converting to pseudo a differential signal which is immune to from ground loops...


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Cool, thanks again jig. So it seems like my original idea may in fact work. I'd just hate to pony up the funds only to find out that I need to yet buy some LOCs or a signal processor.


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## rizajj (Feb 6, 2014)

thanks jig, I will by trying out a ground loop isolator and let you know how it goes.

last question: previously, when using a LOC (LC2i) in the same setup, there was no noise when the radio was off. Was the LC2i acting as ground loop isolator in this case? I assume so.

And rtev--you should try out your "theory"--it works, I'm living proof! no need for additional equipment (aside from a ground loop isolator it would seem!)


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Being that the LC2i is a signal processor, I'm sure it wouldn't allow the noise causing the buzzing to get through.

If you don't mind me asking, what amp are you currently using?


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## rizajj (Feb 6, 2014)

sorry rtrev, you asked about my setup previously and I haven't responded to that. my bad. I'll also get some pics in here when I finalize/neaten up my setup.

But, basically, the signal chain is: RNS-315->(LC2i)*->Kicker 354xi amp->MB Quart QM160KX coaxials (front) / Pioneer TS-SW2502S4 sub.
*no longer in chain

The kicker and the MB Quart are pretty old, like 15+ years old, from my old Honda Prelude. I kept the components because I liked how they sounded. The Kicker is running the sub on the rear channels bridged. 

Also, I tried both Dynaudio and Volkswagen Sound System in VCDS, and I think Dynaudio offers a slightly less tinny sound, but that could be my imagination.


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Awesome, thanks for the reply. I think my next course of action is to pull out the radio and get some reading with a multimeter. Just to see if I can get a Vrms reading from each of the scenarios (default, sound system, dynaudio). Hopefully if that pans out well and I get some comprehensive readings, I'll move on to looking for an amp. I like to stay with JL, but they don't make an amp that outputs <55watts (I've heard 40-50 for the stock speakers is the sweet spot). Anyway, rambling again.

What was the reason behind ditching the LC2i?


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## rizajj (Feb 6, 2014)

would be very curious to see you multimeter readings when you get around to it. If I can borrow one from a friend I will give it a shot too.

I ditched the LC2i because I didnt like how it sounded. And I dont think it's the LC2i's fault, because originally I had a cheap-o LOC installed and that sounded awful. The LC2i sounded slightly better, but still not quite "right". I then changed the coding to Dynaudio via VCDS, and found that it sounded better, but still not quite 100% right. I think this is because the LC2i is meant to take a high level signal, not a low-level signal. 

anyway, with the LC2i out of the picture, I feel the sound is much cleaner. that said, I did wire up the LC2i with speaker to RCA inputs, so that I can easily switch back and forth anytime (this will make more sense when I post photos). 

What I think I will probably end up doing is splitting the speaker outputs at the LC2i and just using the LC2i for the sub/bass output, and bypassing the LC2i for the front speakers. This will allow me to control the sub via the LC2i remote knob (as my amp offers no remote options, or "woofer cooker" as they say).

One thing I have noticed which is a bit annoying is that the SD card input and the bluetooth input seem louder than the radio or other inputs. I know you can adjust the input sensitivity for the MDI and for the AUX in, but you can't adjust BT and SD sensitivity, so that's a bit annoying as I tend to use almost all my inputs at one time or another.


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Okay, it's been a long time coming, but I've finally had the time to make some progress. Yesterday I went ahead and pulled out the radio to take some measurements with a multimeter. First, I recoded the radio to run in "Sound System Installed" mode, and disabled treble monitoring. I loaded up an SD card with a 60Hz sine wave file, and cranked the radio up all the way. With the multimeter set to measure AC voltage, I made contact with one of the front speaker pin sets. Lo an behold, the meter was showing a solid 4v AC! This confirms that the radio is able to output a standard preamp signal, so my next move is to purchase an amp. However, I'd like to purchase a separate harness to splice RCA connections on to. It seems like the SOT-976 is meant for the job, but I'd just like to confirm. Anyone able to help with this one? Thanks!


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## rizajj (Feb 6, 2014)

Way to go on the testing! Glad you were able to confirm. One question though: What other options do you have in VCDS for Sound System? I believe my options are: No Sound System Installed, Volkswagen Sound System, Dynaudio Sound System, Dynaudio (BAP DSP), Skoda (BAP DSP). I think the BAP DSP ones are the ones where all fader and tone control is done through the separate unit/amp. I have mine set to Dynaudio and I retain tone and fader control.

It seems the options for the RCD-510 unit you have are slightly different? I have an RNS-315.


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

I noticed that the options have changed throughout VCDS updates. I believe my current options are: 1. No sound system installed. 2. Sound system/dynaudio installed. 3. Skoda audio installed. 4. Sound system installed (may be incorrectly coded).

The wording in the parenthesis is actually on the program. I didn't just add that myself. For what it's worth, my RCD 510 is revision AC.

What version of VCDS are you running?


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## whatthefunk (Nov 26, 2012)

Hi guys -- This is a very interesting thread!

Rizajj, It sounds like you are satisfied with the SQ put out by the OEM HU when recoded for "dynaudio" and not using the LC2i? How satisfied on a scale of 1-10?  By any chance, did you ever try amping the OEM speakers as such, or did you already put the MBQuarts in when you added your amp? 

I just bought a bone stock '11 GTI with "Premium 8" and I am after good SQ, on a budget -- so I've been searching the forums for info like this to help inform how I go about it. I was leaning towards replacing my RNS 315 with an aftermarket HU, because I am pretty sure the OEM internal amp is the weakest part of the system (and I suspect the DAC is not great either) -- but now this thread has me wondering how it would sound if if I were to put a "dynaudio" coded line-out signal through a 4 channel amp to the OEM speakers. Probably a lot better!

I too, would love to know the answer to the OP's question, in order to know if our OEM HUs are capable of putting out a clean and balanced audio signal. I suppose most people are not in a position to do a direct comparison and even if they could, it would be subjective. 



rtrev2442 said:


> So let's make a scale. 0 being absolutely terrible audio reproduction and 10 being the ideal sound.
> 
> With that, let's say that an aftermarket head unit wired to an amp using a low level signal will produce audio quality rated 10. I'd like to point out that I understand there are other components you can add in order to process the signal in hopes of cleaning it up, but for the sake of simplicity, the former will be a 10.
> 
> _In general, what would you rate the potential audio quality of a stock head unit sending its high level signal to an amplifier?_ Of course the amp would have to accept and be able to process this signal level.


I too, would like to know if SOT-976 is the correct harness to use for this, as retrev2442 asked above...

One thing I'm certain about is that out of the box, the "Premium 8" sounds like poop. Even my wife agrees. :thumbdown:


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## jigubhai2001 (Oct 23, 2012)

Here is an option from Enfig for the wiring harness. When you add to cart, you can select the option of "Send without the Convertor" which is what you will not need and will save you $25.00. This is what I had used on my CC when installing the Sony DSP/Amp unit.

http://enfigcarstereo.com/ENFIG_AAI4_VW12.html


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Thank you for your help, jigubhai.

whatthefunk, one thing I may suggest to temporarily improve SQ, is to use the fader setting to shift the soundstage to the front. It may just be a personal taste, but I don't enjoy hearing music that is playing behind me. After all, when I attend a concert or show, I typically face the stage rather than put my back to it!

Anyway, during my tests, when switching my RCD510 to run in "Sound System Installed" mode, the sonic output was noticeably more flat. Much more enjoyable than the processing the head unit does otherwise. As for the DAC, it actually isn't too bad. It all depends on how you are interfacing with your media. From a quality standpoint, best performance will be achieved by using an SD card or CD, then MDI, then bluetooth, and then AUX in being of the worst quality (depending on the source feeding the AUX in).

I've been eyeballing Alpine's KTP-445u for over a year now. The reviews are great, it's appears incredibly simple to install, and from what I've read it seems that the stock "Premium 8" speakers can handle the 45 watts per channel it provides. The only thing holding me back from purchasing one is that I'm waiting on Alpine to respond to a question I have sent in. I'm trying to confirm that it will in fact accept a 4 volt preamp signal. As soon as I hear back I'll post an update here.


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## whatthefunk (Nov 26, 2012)

rtrev2442, thanks for the tips...I'll try fading it forward. In my informal listening tests, I have found the AUX to perform better than BT when given a high quality source (as you had suggested). My phone happens to be a good source utilizing a Wolfson DAC optimized with a custom Kernel. With this HU, it sounds better over AUX than BT. With the Pioneer 80PRS HU that was in my previous car, SQ was excellent over BT because the 80PRS also uses a high quality DAC.

Based on what I see on the Alpine product page, it would appear that 4V should be fine from either speaker or RCA inputs. http://www.alpine-usa.com/product/view/ktp-445u



> Configurable Inputs
> 
> Need configurable options for Speaker-Level or RCA inputs to the Power Pack? On the bottom panel of the Power Pack there are selectable input options to accommodate Speaker-Level (0.5V-10V) or RCA (0.2V – 4V) inputs.


That Alpine KTP-445u is an interesting option since it has the right amount of power for the OEM speakers and it can simply run off the existing HU power line without having to run a separate amp kit. However, the signal to noise ratio could be better from a standard amp...

I had my eye on the Alpine MRX-F35 4Ch Amplifier, which costs a bit more especially once you factor in the amp kit and install costs. I was thinking that by turning the gain down a bit, I probably wouldn't blow the OEM speakers (although I could be wrong)... and then if I decide to upgrade the speakers later, which I think is fairly likely, I'd be in a better position to do so. (I also have my eye on the Morel Tempo 6's, although I haven't actually heard them with my own ears)

If you pull the trigger on the KTP-445u, I'd definitely be interested to hear about what you think of it! 

Alpine KTP-445u 4Ch Power pack
Cost: $122
Amp kit required: No
RMS Power: 45 x4 @ 4 Ohm
S/N ratio: 82 dB
THD: 1%

Alpine MRX-F35 4Ch Amplifier
Cost: $153
Amp kit required: Yes
RMS Power: >=55 x4 @ 4 Ohm
S/N ratio: 87 dB
THD: 1%


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Thanks for the input. I've seen conflicting numbers for SNR: anywhere from 81 to 93 dB. My interest in the pack falls on the fact that I don't yet want to upgrade the speakers. I've realized that anything worth spending money on in that regard is going to put a decent hole in my wallet. Granted, I only plan on swapping the fronts, but the speakers I want run for $800-$900 from an authorized dealer (namely, JL's C5-653 3-way kit). I've figured that while I hold off on that, I might as well move towards integrating an amp to power the stock speakers with some clean power. Yes, I realize that going from 18w to 45w isn't going to to make a world of a difference in loudness (1.32 times the perceived loudness to be exact), but playing at the same volume with the KTP will surely provide a cleaner output. Plus, since running the RCD in "sound system installed" mode seemed to balance the spectrum, this may be a way to defeat the HU's signal processing all together.

So yea, I understand what you are getting at with the suggestion of what I'd consider a "real" amplifier, but the thought of experimenting with the KTP interests me.

Since I have a birthday coming up, I'll use it as a bit of an excuse to splurge the cash for myself. So, hopefully, within the next two weeks I will have completed this mini upgrade. I'll be sure to post as I make more progress!


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## rizajj (Feb 6, 2014)

I did not try to run the amp with the factory speakers, though I have left the stock tweeters in the front doors and they are wired along with the MB Quarts in parallel. They sound pretty good, though I do have the treble set at -2.

Regarding the LC2i: I originally had the LC2i set up as it was supposed to be used--speaker output from the RNS-315 into the LC2i, LC2i into the amp. It "worked" but I wasn't too happy with the sound. I'd give it a 6. (And let's say the factory setup is a 4). I wasn't sure if it was the fact that I was using a device which is squashing the speaker signal and therefore there is inherently going to be issues with it, or if it was because the HU's frequency response wasn't flat enough. I think it was the latter, as when I recoded to Dynaudio, it sounded better (flatter). But I think the LC2i isn't really meant to handle a low-level signal. I basically had the levels on the LC2i cranked up all the way. I feel like this was most noticeable on the sub--it sounded "slow" and lacked any sort of punch. 

Once I removed the LC2i completely, I found the sound to be MUCH better. I'd give it an 8 now. 

That Alpine KTP unit looks really interesting. I bet it would make a huge difference, particularly if you recoded to Dyanudio.


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## whatthefunk (Nov 26, 2012)

Here are some speaker wire to RCA adapters, for anyone who might be interested. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-LwBd9WYo7Ts/shopsearch/speaker_wire_to_RCA_adapter.html

The Rockford Fostgate adapter comes with a product advisory, which cautions: 


> DO NOT connect the negative (-) speaker output to RCA shield (-). Doing so may cause damage to the source unit and/or amplifier and void your warranty.


http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/supp....php?p_faqid=1002&p_li=&p_topview=1#knowledge

The RF diagram suggests that the RCA shield (-) wires should be connected to the Head Unit Chassis, and the speaker wire output (-) from the Head Unit should be taped off and not used. Does anyone know why that might be? Perhaps it only applies to using a high level (speaker line) output from the head unit, rather than the line level output that we're discussing.

Rizajj, presumably you connected the RCA (-) wires directly to the (-) speaker output wires and haven't had any problems -- correct?


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Hmm, I'm glad you found this. I actually placed an order last night for all the parts I need, minus the amp. My guess as to why they advise this is that they are assuming anyone who uses the product will be using them for high level applications. Throughout my readings and research, I've found that amps which accept a high level input are either fed via bare speaker wire, or you have to splice RCA pigtails, like those, on to the existing speaker wire. With that, I'd guess that Rockford is providing that warning to those who will be using their pigtails to splice on to a high level signal. After all, the casing of an RCA connector is rather exposed which may lead to voltage arcs between nearby conductive surfaces. By terminating the (-) end of the RCA, you would lose the negative portion of the signal which I imagine would result in clipping on a conventional low level application. I'll go ahead and splice together both positive and negative, but if I run in to any issues I'll be sure to look into any problems that connecting the (-) side may cause.

Thanks again!


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## rizajj (Feb 6, 2014)

I used the Rockford Fosgate speaker/RCA connectors (but bought them off Amazon). I actually ended up connecting it both ways, as I had some phase cancellation issues in the beginning. I dont think there is any danger in connecting it backwards (other than phase issues).


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## whatthefunk (Nov 26, 2012)

What setting are you guys using for "Byte 5 select Bit 00 – Equalization:" ... "Linear"? Not sure what the default value is for the Premium 8 in our cars as my VCDS is currently on order. 
http://www.my-gti.com/1411/volkswagen-rns-510-coding-when-installing-with-a-factory-amplifier

In any case, it seems like "Volkswagen Sound System" and "linear" may be the most appropriate settings to use for an aftermarket amp, although I'm not sure if "Dynaudio Sound System" does anything more than showing the Dynaudio logo on start-up, as compared to "Volkswagen Sound System". Some other tidbits that I found interesting:



> In addition to this, there is a loudness setting that is available in the RNS510's secret menu under Audio. This is worth checking.
> http://www.my-gti.com/1078/entering-...ecent-firmware





> Shall I choose Volkswagen Sound System or Dynaudio Sound System? What is the difference?
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...


See also: http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...ainment/sound_system_amplifier/general_notes/


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## rizajj (Feb 6, 2014)

I don't have the EQ/Byte 5 option--I think that might be unique to the RCD/RNS-510, and not the 315.


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## whatthefunk (Nov 26, 2012)

Rizajj, yeah that's probably it. If the 315 automatically puts out a more "linear" frequency response when coded for "___ sound system", then I guess it's no big deal.

BTW, I was just wondering... I know you said you had MBQuarts in the front. Does that mean you still have OEM rear speakers running off the Kicker amp? And if so, how does it sound when you fade it all the way back?


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## rizajj (Feb 6, 2014)

yeah the EQ curve is dictated by the Sound System. Though I can't actually test it, I think the Dynaudio option is flatter than the Fender or the Skoda Sound System option. 

I do still have the stock rear speakers. They are essentially useless though. If I fade all the way back and crank it, it sounds OK, not bad but not great. So I basically just have it faded totally forward now.


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Being that my RCD is an earlier revision (revision AC), I don't have the Fender option. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't present a flatter frequency response though. My brother has a 2012 TDI with the fender system, and I honestly think it sounds worse than the premium 8 in mine. I'm guessing it either has to to with the absence of the midrange speaker in the fender system, or that the MK6's interior is built with lower quality materials all around. The plastics in the MK6 make it feel so much cheaper than the MK5.


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## whatthefunk (Nov 26, 2012)

rizajj said:


> I do still have the stock rear speakers. They are essentially useless though. If I fade all the way back and crank it, it sounds OK, not bad but not great. So I basically just have it faded totally forward now.


Very interesting -- that sounds like a vote to replace the front speakers! I mean, the stock fronts are essentially the same as the stock rears, aren't they?

Edit: At least in my car I have 2-ways in the front and back so I've assumed they're using the same drivers.


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

whatthefunk: I presume you are referring to the 2011 GTI listed in your profile, correct? If so, I wasn't aware that the MK6s run 2-ways in the front. I never really paid much attention to it. If that's the case, then it's likely that the fronts and rears are of the same spec, although I could absolutely be wrong.

On another note, I have a major update to add. I finally pulled the trigger. Made a run to Best Buy today to pick up the KTP-445U. It's sitting in front of me on my desk with all the DIP switches set and all the wires labeled for easier assembly when I receive my package containing the rest of the parts. Best of all, it's scheduled to arrive tomorrow!!! :laugh:


Here are links to all the items I ordered through Sonic Electronix:

1x Scosche VW03B (Pigtail harness to connect to existing QuadLock harness)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4442_Scosche-VW03B.html

1x Scosche VW03RB (Pigtail harness to connect to back of RCD-510)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7401_Scosche-VW03RB.html

2x Rockford Fosgate RFIF2SW (Female RCA pigtails to connect to speaker/signal out wires on RCD-510)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_67780_Rockford-Fosgate-RFIF2SW.html

1x StreetWires ZN1Y2F pair (Male RCA to dual female RCA Y-connector to split rear speaker signal to KTP-445U and existing subwoofer amp)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_35366_StreetWires-ZN1Y2F.html

4x House Brand RCAMM (RGB2) (Male to male RCA barrel connectors to couple new RCD-510 RCA outs to KTP-445U RCA ins)


Because documenting the install wouldn't exactly fall under the "Technical" category that this thread is in, I'll compile a new thread over in the MK5 model specific forum. After I've finished the install and posted anything necessary, I'll be sure to include a link in this thread's original posting. Feel free to ask any other technically related questions here so we can continue to help each other out. Thanks to all who have helped along the way!

EDIT: I'd like to point out that, with the KTP-445U, I read you can either run the 12V power line directly to the battery, or you could splice into the power supply line of the head unit itself. After reading through the owners manual, I've found that there is an exception to this; you can only splice into the radio's power line if the fuse rating is 15+ amps. Before reading that, I had the gut feeling that I should go ahead and run a dedicated power line for the amp, but now that I've learned this it seems I have no choice. IIRC the radio's fuse is rated for 10 amps. Good thing I had 10 feet of red 14-gauge wire laying around!


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## rizajj (Feb 6, 2014)

whatthefunk said:


> Very interesting -- that sounds like a vote to replace the front speakers! I mean, the stock fronts are essentially the same as the stock rears, aren't they?
> 
> Edit: At least in my car I have 2-ways in the front and back so I've assumed they're using the same drivers.


Yes I believe there are 2-ways in back as well. The reason the back speakers are useless now is because the headunit can't drive them properly as it is outputting a low level signal to them. I think they might actually sound OK if driven with an amp. Regardless, they aren't really needed in terms of volume, at least for me, with how loud I can crank the fronts.


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

And it's finished! The KTP-445U is officially wired in and functional. I chose to install the unit beneath the radio, and directly behind the air control unit. Luckily there is a metal brace running across the bottom of the control panel, so I was able to tightly zip tie the amp down. I also adhered some adhesive felt strips along the edges of the amp to avoid metal on metal contact.

I've set its high pass filter to 60Hz, as well as set the low pass filter on the subwoofer amp to somewhere between 60 and 70Hz. Gains are set also. Gain on KTP is very low; somewhere between 0 and the first notch. Gain on sub amp is comparatively high; sitting between 70-80%. By no means is the sub over powering the speakers though. It had to be set higher in order to compensate for the RCD's fader set further to the front.

I haven't driven with it installed yet so I can't vouch for that experience, but overall I'm happy I made the purchase. The output spectrum is much flatter with the radio programmed to sound system installed mode. At first I thought it sounded odd, which is likely due to my ears getting used to the stock sound for the past four and a half years. Although, after a few songs it has definitely begun to grow on me. In terms of perceptual volume, I'd say it is now somewhere between 1.3-1.5 times as loud, and is distortion free up to 3 steps before max volume.

One odd, yet welcomed behavior I have found is that the amp still powers up if I turn on the radio with the key out of the ignition. Initially I thought the key would have to at least be in to have accessory mode activated, due to tapping the 12v socket for the trigger wire. It could be that the auto-sensing feature on the amp also works when connected via RCA, but I'm going to go back to make sure I tapped into the correct wire.

As for documenting the install, I have decided it wasn't worth the hassle. There are already a handful of DIY subwoofer install threads which contain many of the same procedures I took. However, I did take a picture of the harness I assembled before installation. As soon as I edit the picture to include labels of each lead, I'll be sure to upload it for anyone interested.


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## whatthefunk (Nov 26, 2012)

rizajj, I didn't realize your rears are not amped -- that makes total sense now. 

rtrev2442, While the Mk6 GTI has 3 way split fronts for Dynaudio, otherwise the "premium 8" gets 2 ways. Congrats on the install! Still happy with the results? How would you rate your satisfaction from 1 to 10?


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Interesting.

As far as the install goes, I'd put my satisfaction somewhere in the realm of 7-8. While I feel that the investment was definitely worthwhile, there is still something to be desired. Volume now reaches a satisfactory level, while audio quality is left with room for improvement. That isn't to say that the amp didn't improve it; it certainly did. It's just now that I'm able to crank it a bit louder, I've been noticing a fair bit more rattling in the car. Ideally, I'd like to eventually swap out the front speakers for better 3-ways, but I figure my next order of business is doing a dynamat job on the door panels to tighten things up. However, I would recommend the addition of this little amp to anyone looking for an upgrade to their stock system.


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## whatthefunk (Nov 26, 2012)

Have you tried crossing over at 80 hz? If the rattling is in the doors I'd expect a higher HPF to alleviate some of that.


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

I actually have it set to 80Hz right now. The rattling is mostly coming from the mids, which I suspect is because they are mounted directly to the door card. I'll be switching back to 60Hz as soon as I have the opportunity to. Even after matching the sub's LPF with the 80Hz on the KTP, the output isn't as good as it is when set to 60Hz. At 60Hz the bass response was much more enjoyable. The woofers would provide a nice low end kick, while the sub would serve as an additive shake to the system. In all, setting everything to 60Hz made everything sound and feel much more natural.


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

As promised, here is a picture of the harness I ended up with.

<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15360044877" title="KTP-445 Harness by Ryan Trevathan, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3954/15360044877_8e34c7e6d3_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="KTP-445 Harness"></a>


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## baniels (Dec 16, 2014)

Thanks for this thread. I was conjuring up the same idea, and found you had mapped it out quite intelligently. 

I have a 2010 GTI, which I presume is the same, as far as the relevant factors, as your Jetta. I also have the Premium 8 with the RCD-510.

I ordered all of the parts you listed a few posts up. Just today I took out the head unit to get a better idea of how it will all be going together. 

The one question I have relates to the CAN-Bus passthrough. The Scosche VW03B and VW03RB seem to lack the "other" wires. The VW03B appears to just have a slot for those additional wires, which the side that goes into the existing HU has the little ports, but doesn't have all the necessary wires.

For the wiring labeled CD and CAN-Bus passthru in your image, did you have to install those wires yourself, or were they present in the male/female harnesses?



rtrev2442 said:


> As promised, here is a picture of the harness I ended up with.
> 
> <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15360044877" title="KTP-445 Harness by Ryan Trevathan, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3954/15360044877_8e34c7e6d3_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="KTP-445 Harness"></a>


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

I'm glad you were able to find some use in this! I left out the details regarding the other wires simply because there isn't much fiddling to be done to them. On my harness', connected to the radio, the wires I believe you are referring to aren't terminated on the large black quad-lock connector. Rather, they are terminated to their own connectors which are clipped into the quad-lock connector. Unfortunately I do not have any detailed pictures to describe this, but once you are able to get the radio out, they way those terminals work should be self explanatory.

If you have any other question just let me know. I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge.

Edit: To add on to that, the wires aren't included with the scosche harnesses because the originals don't need to be spliced. Just transplant the connectors from the stock quad-lock to the new harness.

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## baniels (Dec 16, 2014)

Understood. Thanks for the clarification. 

You mentioned going back to double check the wire you tapped into for power. Did you do that? I'd like to have the amp function whenever the radio does, regardless of the key position. It sounds like that's what you ended up with... Where did you tap in for power, or did you use the remote wore? 

Edit: Also, why did you choose to splice the sub output off of the rears instead of the fronts? 



rtrev2442 said:


> I'm glad you were able to find some use in this! I left out the details regarding the other wires simply because there isn't much fiddling to be done to them. On my harness', connected to the radio, the wires I believe you are referring to aren't terminated on the large black quad-lock connector. Rather, they are terminated to their own connectors which are clipped into the quad-lock connector. Unfortunately I do not have any detailed pictures to describe this, but once you are able to get the radio out, they way those terminals work should be self explanatory.
> 
> If you have any other question just let me know. I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge.
> 
> ...


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## baniels (Dec 16, 2014)

After some soldering sessions over the last couple day, I got mine installed this afternoon. Thanks again for sharing - this was a helpful reference.

It was a pretty tight fit after all the wiring and extra 2 harness components, but I was able to get it all in there. 

The improvement over stock is quite dramatic. It certainly plays louder, but there is more clarity through the range of loudness. Next step will be to add a small subwoofer to fill out the bottom end. 

Interestingly, I did not use the remote-in line either, and it turns on with the radio just fine, regardless of the ignition. 

There is faint, barely-audible noise floor now, which I perceive only under the condition of car stopped, engine off, and no kids shuffling around the back seat. Perhaps I have my gain set too high... the knobs are horizontally flat, from 9 to 3 o'clock. 

I ended up using the voltage supply line from the stock harness wiring, as it lead back to a 15amp fuse. I also used the voltage supply negative from the same place... pin 15 (for +) and pin 12 (for -) from the original harness.


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Awesome, glad you were able to get it working!

It was definitely a tight fit with getting all the wires neatly packed in there. If I had to do the process all over again, I would trim about 2 feet off of the wires from the amp's harness. 

Are you also using the KTP-445u? If so, it might be safest to set the gain all the way back down to zero. I did so after about a month of having it in due to some unpleasant cracking with the stock speakers. I'm not sure if it was because they are being overpowered, or if the amp was just feeding them a distorted signal. Either way, it's just a piece of mind for me.

Adding a sub will greatly even out the frequency spectrum within the car. Currently, my JL 13w3 is being powered by a 1000 watt RF amp which is also set close to no gain.

My next plan is to swap out the front components with something of greater quality. The stock speakers are impressive for what they are, but they're still stock speakers.

If you happen to know of any sets that are (1) as close to plug and play as possible, and (2) aren't listed for more than $500, let me know!


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## baniels (Dec 16, 2014)

Well, not so fast. I went into VCDS to clear the airbag code (normal, I believe). While I was in there I checked for codes with the radio and it had 7 faults.

I also noticed before starting the car that there was a faint and periodic "bloop" sound, I think coming through the speakers. This was with the head unit off. Of course with any sound through the radio, it can't be heard. But with something playing, with the volume at zero, it can still be heard. Maybe my ground point was a bad choice?


```
00856 - Radio Antenna 
            011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 156
                    Mileage: 112327 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2063.14.01
                    Time: 00:00:14

00821 - Antenna 2 for Radio (R93) 
            011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 156
                    Mileage: 112327 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2063.14.01
                    Time: 00:00:14

02633 - Antenna for Satellite Tuner 
            011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 156
                    Mileage: 112327 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2063.14.01
                    Time: 00:00:14

00823 - Line-Output; Front Left 
            011 - Open Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 119
                    Mileage: 112336 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2063.14.01
                    Time: 20:57:06

00859 - Line-Output; Front Right 
            011 - Open Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 119
                    Mileage: 112336 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2063.14.01
                    Time: 20:57:06

00860 - Line-Output; Rear Left 
            011 - Open Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 119
                    Mileage: 112336 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2063.14.01
                    Time: 20:57:06

00869 - Line Output; Rear Right 
            011 - Open Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 119
                    Mileage: 112336 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2063.14.01
                    Time: 20:57:06
```


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

That's strange. My best guesses on the antennas are that the connections at the radio aren't completely inserted or that there might be some coding tweaks that need to be done.

Two questions before I get any further tho: (1) What revision RCD do you have? (2) Is your antenna "pole style" or "shark fin style". Mine is a shark fin which, as far as I'm aware, is amplified, whereas the other style is not. I could be wrong, but if it is indeed the case, then the amplified vs non-amplified dilemma could be a contributing factor.

As far as the line-out codes go, what coding changes have you done to adapt the new amp? I believe you should be setting the "sound system" drop-down menu to VW Sound System, and the speaker type from passive to active. Just note that I don't remember what the precise verbiage is of those two options, so VCDS may be listing them using a variation of the words. I did post them earlier back in the thread though.

If I have some time later in the day, I'll fire up VCDS and take some screenshots of the exact lines.


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## baniels (Dec 16, 2014)

The attached image shows the original values in VCDS, and directly below are the values I switched to.

I went back into VCDS this afternoon (after lowering the gain on the amp (which dropped the noise floor)). I checked for codes in the radio again, and it was only the 4 for the 4 speakers. The antenna codes went away. Thinking back, I probably turned the head unit on without them attached during the install process.

I cleared the 4 codes, turned off the car, and checked again. They did not come back. But I had cleared them this morning after I first found them, and they reappeared immediately. 

I'll check for codes again in a few days.


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

That's really strange. It looks like you also have a revision AC unit, so the coding and behavior should be equal to mine.

One thing just came to mind though. Did you set the dip switches on the bottom correctly? If memory serves right, there should be one for setting the input to either RCA or speaker level. It's likely that this wouldn't affect anything on the RCD side, but I'd say it's worth checking over.

Edit: The dip switches could very well be the problem. Line level inputs tend to present a much higher impedance than the speaker level counterparts. If the switch is set to "speaker", the radio won't have enough resistance for its signal travel through. This could also be the cause of the noise floor you mentioned. In my case, I don't hear any noise with the engine running (unless the volume is maxed and no audio is playing).

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## baniels (Dec 16, 2014)

Dip switches are set properly. Image of settings attached. 

Lowering the gain took care of the noise floor (which was only present with the radio on/engine off). It's now just a touch above zero. 

The radio codes are gone for now. I'll report back in a couple days of they come back. 

I any case, I've ordered some new speakers for the fronts. Still devising the sub option (I have a CNC router, and just have to get around to picking a driver and drawing up an enclosure (probably a clone of the uber stealth if I don't talk myself into a 12")).


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Yup, that definitely looks correct. It sounds like everything has been cleared up then (pun intended). I'd be surprised if the codes came up again.

If you don't mind me asking, what speakers did you order?


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## baniels (Dec 16, 2014)

I ordered a pair of the Polk db651s, slim/low profile. They were on sale at Crutchfield and come with mounting adapters. I figure worst case, they'll go in the rear if they don't suit me for the front. 

Not sure what to expect with the stock tweeters + a coax door speaker. Can always disconnect the stock tweets or simply tone down the treble. 

In a perfect world I'd have a nice component system, but I'm trying to take one step at a time. I thought I'd have the amp in for more than 24 hrs before I ordered new drivers for the doors ...


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

Interesting. Polk is one of my favorites within the mainstream realm of speaker manufacturers. They can definitely make some nice products. I'd love to hear how they work out for you!


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## baniels (Dec 16, 2014)

Of course. For the thread hijacking you've tolerated, a little review of those drivers is the least I can offer. 


rtrev2442 said:


> Interesting. Polk is one of my favorites within the mainstream realm of speaker manufacturers. They can definitely make some nice products. I'd love to hear how they work out for you!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rtrev2442 (Oct 13, 2011)

I wouldn't consider it thread hijacking. Sure, the original intent of the thread was to determine whether or not the process would work, but since that question has been solved, I would consider anything related to it as acceptable. If you had asked about something else, like how to add a subwoofer using a line out converter, then I'd consider it hijacking.

But anyway, sounds good. There really isn't that much solid information on sound system work around the internet, so anything helps!

Edit: I'd also like to apologize for missing a post you had written a while back. I just scanned through the whole thread to try to get an idea of when changed my crossover, and noticed you had some questions that I never answered. A lot of my posts are done from my phone, and it's not perfect when it comes to notifications. Nonetheless, you were able to figure it out so I assume you were able to get the questions answered.

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## baniels (Dec 16, 2014)

I got the db651s speakers installed this afternoon. The sound quality is significantly better than the stock drivers.

After I installed the passenger side, I set the fader to the front, then adjusted the balance back and forth from left to right. The amount of distortion on the stocks is really evident when doing this comparison. The power handling is also much better with the Polks, not surprisingly. 

I was a little unsure of how it would be to now have two sources of high frequency sound, since the Polks are coax. I'm probably going to leave it as it is - with the stock tweeters connected with the treble lowered a touch.

I will probably put the same ones in the rear eventually. 

Midrange and treble are good - bass is okay... I'd call it adequate (keep in mind I have a 60hz high pass enabled on the amp). It may improve a little bit with time as the suspension relaxes. I am still planning to put at least a 10" sub in the trunk eventually.

For less than $200 for the amp and speakers, there is a lot of value.


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## Kennedyrich (Jan 3, 2014)

*Did it (RCD-510 - Added Amps/Sub)*

Well I finally got around to trying rtrev's "theory". I had a similar plan in mind, and unless VW threw in one of there common electronic surprises, I was confident that it would work. I am happy to report no real issues. I took a long time collect the pieces I needed (Alpine Amps and subwoofer, cables, harness, connectors and other misc. bits), and did all of the prep at a leisurely pace. Doing all of the soldering and wire labeling at my desk, as well as building the amp board and researching the VCDS settings in advance, made the install a lot smoother. Once I had everything "prepped", I mounted my amps, pulled my power (4 awg), signal and speaker cables/wires, and had everything in place so I could make my coding changes and verify that they had the affect I was looking for (output voltage drop). Then I connected my custom wiring harness (modified Enfig harness) connected my power cable (used 80 amp. opening on the engine fuse box bus bar), and started tuning. I had already upgraded my door speakers to RF components, so the addition of more power (50 clean watts RMS X 4, plus 300 watts RMS for the sub) rounded out the system nicely, and allowed me to keep a stock look. Would I like to have all of the tuning flexibility I have in my Alpine HU in our F150? Sure would. But I was just trying to upgrade my system, and fill in the low end, like only a sub can do. Mission accomplished. 

Thanks rtrev for the details that helped me get started. Now we have two Jetta's in Charlotte with this set up. 

If anyone needs more specific details, just let me know. 

Rich


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## Dubsport Inc (Oct 12, 2002)

vw norm said:


> You may want to check here for pin-out designations for the back panel connectors. There is an aux output on #4 and possibly on #6, but it doesn't appear to be labeled correctly.
> 
> http://www.my-gti.com/1313/volkswagen-rcd-510-pin-assignments


used this today... worked great!


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## kyle_h (Aug 1, 2010)

Anyone do this WITH dynaudio?


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