# 16v on Megasquirt, emissions?



## a1rabbitsauce (Dec 16, 2009)

So I'm planning on building my 16v when money (hopefully) starts coming my way. I was wondering if anyone ever runs into problems running MS2/3 and passing emissions. I have my flame suit on, not sure if this is a stupid question as I'm inexperienced with megasquirt. Also, I do know that running big cams on a stock motor (mainly stock management) will cause it to not pass; as in something like 276 cams on a 16v. Can I run big cams and tweak MS to make it pass?

Here a rough list of what I'm planning on:
swap out my 1.8 bottom end for a 2.0
1.8 16v head (rebuild)
Raceland header or TT downpipe (unsure yet)
16v/1.8t hybrid intake (basically the plenum part of a 1.8t intake welded to a lower 16v manifold)
Passat or VR throttle body 
Cams... maybe the exhaust cam mod or autotech sport cams. or? some big'uns if emissions friendly
ac and ps delete
maybe some porting and polishing
adj. cam gear
..and a few other odds and ends


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

The big cams make the flapper go wild at idle, especially when it's low. It really depends on how high they let you idle and the exact test specs. I passed the MD idle test with my 12v on 288s with a just barely under 1k idle.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

I agree, my 8V passed after some adjusting, either my wide-band reads low or they want them fairly lean. As long as you can get past the visual (if required) and can get a stable idle, you should have no problems.:thumbup:

And the best part, if you do have to adjust to pass, save that tune for further tests and reload the "good" tune for the rest of your driving pleasure.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

ps2375 said:


> And the best part, if you do have to adjust to pass, save that tune for further tests and reload the "good" tune for the rest of your driving pleasure.


this is definitely key on the more "wild" setups...:thumbup:


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## WickeD666 (Dec 27, 2003)

megasquirt is not steet legal


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

What is a steet?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

WickeD666 said:


> megasquirt is not steet legal


it just so happens that i only drive "off road"
funny, that

:laugh:


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

WickeD666 said:


> megasquirt is not steet legal


says who? I run it on the "street" and I have passed emissions testing with it. Granted, an OBDII car won't pass w/o some fancy wiring to be able to run in parallel or with a plug-n-play setup.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

ps2375 said:


> says who? I run it on the "street" and I have passed emissions testing with it. Granted, an OBDII car won't pass w/o some fancy wiring to be able to run in parallel or with a plug-n-play setup.


It's not CARB certified and there is the standard disclaimer that it is designed for off road and educational use only. It's a legal thing to keep B&G out of trouble with the EPA.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

WickeD666 said:


> megasquirt is not steet legal


There is no emissions in bumfkedegypt where I live so that means everything is legal including every chevy that smokes blue and every honda that the back half looks like coffee grounds puked out of the muffler:screwy:

So in all reality what is street legal, laws say you can not lower your car, modify the exhaust, have a loud stereo, change engines bla bla blle blle bla :facepalm:

Also if you have collector plates you don't need emissions anything over 25 years 

As far as passing emissions there should be no issue as long as all they do is a sniffer test and do not require a OBD scan or a visual check.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

Svedka said:


> and do not require a OBD scan or a visual check.


you can pass those too...


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

I've never had to try here in WA when you do do a emission test they just probe your exhaust. Just for my on info how do you pass them?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

im in wa also (non emissions county as well) but ive seen some pictures of MS built in stock ECU cases, and as long as the charcoal can stuff looks to be there things can go smoothly.

thats what i hear though


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

LOL i was more referring to visual checks as in making sure there is no motor upgrades like 4cyl in a rabbit to a vr6 is a obvious visual no no or header with no cat, im not sure if they frown upon CAI or retrofitted carbs and or ITB's I would imagine it is probably different in many states.

Prof315
It's not CARB certified and there is the standard disclaimer that it is designed for off road and educational use only. It's a legal thing to keep B&G out of trouble with the EPA. 

So if the above is true wouldn't that make any retrofitted carb system illegal also?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

ive heard some stories about the engine actually having to look stock in california... right down to the ECU.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Svedka said:


> So if the above is true wouldn't that make any retrofitted carb system illegal also?


Yes. I passed in MD which does have a visual check (quickly), verify the CEL works (mine does through the wonders of MS's rpm based outputs) and a dyno test. Never had a problem.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

need_a_VR6 said:


> (mine does through the wonders of MS's rpm based outputs)


:laugh: awesome


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

i've done emissions several times here in WA with mk2's and never had an issue. The only one that didn't pass was mine because it was running rich at idle and is burning a TON of oil :laugh:

I have pics of an emissions sheet before a tune and after if you are curious how well the MS'd cars can run with only a small amount of time :thumbup:


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Svedka said:


> Prof315
> It's not CARB certified and there is the standard disclaimer that it is designed for off road and educational use only. It's a legal thing to keep B&G out of trouble with the EPA.
> 
> So if the above is true wouldn't that make any retrofitted carb system illegal also?


Yeah it does unless it has a specific CARB exemption.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

The ironic thing about MS is that most of the cars that have MS installed probably have cleaner emmisions with MS because of it's tuneability.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Maybe not a fair comparison there, as most of the cars with MS installed have some other things that might make the result worse then stock already ...


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Maybe not a fair comparison there, as most of the cars with MS installed have some other things that might make the result worse then stock already ...


Well what I meant was that MS winds up on a lot of older cars (80s-90s) and with a little tuning work you can improve upon the the emissions compared to when they were new. 

Very true that most cars with MS have cams, turbos or some kind of change over stock that can and often does adversely effect smog output though.


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## a1rabbitsauce (Dec 16, 2009)

Thanks for the input guys, this thread turned into something useful. If anyone else has some more info or thoughts on this keep it coming.


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## mjleamy (Mar 16, 2004)

*Passed last 3 years in Atlanta*



a1rabbitsauce said:


> Thanks for the input guys, this thread turned into something useful. If anyone else has some more info or thoughts on this keep it coming.


I am not so good about checking these forums anymore, so sorry for being late to the party  I have passed emissions 3 years running in Atlanta. This last time I dialed the timing down 10 degrees or so because of just-over NOx. All my other emissions are way below the allowable :thumbup: If I get motivated, I will post the scanned emissions certificates. A few years back on the old forums I had one posted.

I don't get any hassle about MS from the emissions stations. The way I see it, my MS unit does a much better job of keeping things stochiometric throughout the RPM and MAP range. Basically, we are doing the environment a favor by ditching old, obsolete, and broken-down CIS systems and replacing them with much more refined and correctly-operating EFI systems.

Best, Mike
1991 GLI 16V running MSnS-E (that's old hardware and software)


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