# TT RS Rear Sway Bar...



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Well, I put the Neuspeed RSB from my TTS on today. I'll be taking it off tomorrow. The little bolts that attach the right half shaft to the differential make contact with the bar. I never would have thought there was a difference between the TTS and RS diff. I only noticed when I backed it out of the garage. Hits slightly under load. Grrr. Take a look...


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## eweu (Jul 22, 2001)

Yikes. Glad you found out so quickly after installing.

Do you have any more pictures of the diff itself? I wonder what the differences are.


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## joshsmith (Apr 17, 2011)

Interesting.. I mentioned this a while ago as my dealer told me there was some serious differences down there (can't remember the list)..

Definitely lucky you found sooner rather than later!!

We want more pics of your car Domm


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

I'm a terrible photographer. None of my pics look that good. All I have is a little point and shoot digital. I'll see what I can do.


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

Make sure the Neuspeed guys know....they pride themselves in quality and fit....What size was the original bar? Wonder what the "stiffness" difference is?


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## TheSandeman (Jan 12, 2011)

GaBoYnFla said:


> Make sure the Neuspeed guys know....they pride themselves in quality and fit....What size was the original bar? Wonder what the "stiffness" difference is?


well if it wasnt listed under TTRS on their website, they have nothing to worry about nor are they liable for compatibility issues :thumbup:

regardless that sucks Domm


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

DrDomm said:


> I'm a terrible photographer. None of my pics look that good. All I have is a little point and shoot digital. I'll see what I can do.


How about some under-body comparison pics of the differential area of the TTS and TT-RS for comparison?


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

GaBoYnFla said:


> Make sure the Neuspeed guys know....they pride themselves in quality and fit....What size was the original bar? Wonder what the "stiffness" difference is?


It was their 25mm rear bar for TT Quattros.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

TheSandeman said:


> well if it wasnt listed under TTRS on their website, they have nothing to worry about nor are they liable for compatibility issues :thumbup:


I think his point was that they would want to know, just in case anyone asked them. Also, they wouldn't want to advertise that it fits.

The bummer is that I'm not sure if they will make a bar that fits considering the low volume of cars.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Marty said:


> How about some under-body comparison pics of the differential area of the TTS and TT-RS for comparison?


I took some of the RS, but I don't have the TTS anymore.


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

DrDomm said:


> I think his point was that they would want to know, just in case anyone asked them. Also, they wouldn't want to advertise that it fits.
> 
> The bummer is that I'm not sure if they will make a bar that fits considering the low volume of cars.


Exactly.....I've know the Neuspeed folks a long time....they've always been good to me.


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## kendoist4162 (Mar 15, 2010)

Didn't Jason have a webisode about installing a RSW?? I imagine there are shots of the underside of his TTS.....


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Here's some pics of the rear diff.





































FWIW.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

This is what happened to the bar...


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## TheSandeman (Jan 12, 2011)

Domm was rubbing against you're axel? I'm curious to know what are the differences other than the obvious btw the RS and the TT/TTS


---
- Sent from my iPhone4.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

TheSandeman said:


> Domm was rubbing against you're axel? I'm curious to know what are the differences other than the obvious btw the RS and the TT/TTS
> 
> 
> ---
> - Sent from my iPhone4.


If you look at the first photo, the torx screws that are protruding from the rear diff on the right side were hitting the bar when the suspension was compressed...on the ground. Those pics are with the car on jacks and the wheels hanging. 

I think the difference is either the screws/bolts or just the dimensions of the equipment connecting the rear halfshafts to the differential. Just a small difference.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

DrDomm said:


> If you look at the first photo, the torx screws that are protruding from the rear diff on the right side were hitting the bar when the suspension was compressed...on the ground. Those pics are with the car on jacks and the wheels hanging.
> 
> I think the difference is either the screws/bolts or just the dimensions of the equipment connecting the rear halfshafts to the differential. Just a small difference.


Maybe the RS has beefier half-shafts to deal with the extra torque?


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## TheSandeman (Jan 12, 2011)

DrDomm said:


> If you look at the first photo, the torx screws that are protruding from the rear diff on the right side were hitting the bar when the suspension was compressed...on the ground. Those pics are with the car on jacks and the wheels hanging.
> 
> I think the difference is either the screws/bolts or just the dimensions of the equipment connecting the rear halfshafts to the differential. Just a small difference.



ah i see... being that the RSB is of a tubular design, im assuming it wouldnt be a great idea to grind it down a bit for clearing the rear diff bolts.... now a solution opcorn:


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Maybe the RS has beefier half-shafts to deal with the extra torque?


It probably does. But I think this problem illustrated that the connection to the rear diff is beefed up.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

DrDomm said:


> Here's some pics of the rear diff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What's that belt driving back there??


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## 996cab (Aug 13, 2011)

Well,
am glad you checked as many in the UK 'assume' TTS parts can be fitted on the TT-RS...it is the other way round iften i.e. TT-RS parts to fit TTS...so best stick to TT-RS specific item if for nothing else mainly due to the increased power and weight that these parts will have to deal with.

Also note that the rear ARB should be 22mm MAX else it will rub against other parts. We found H&R ARBs were best fit...there is a specific 24mm front and 22mm rears that you will need. I do not have the part numbers however I understand there is only one 24mm & 22mm for the TT-RS range.

AM not aware of any TT-RS owner who has fitted a different brand - I think H&R have got that particular business wrapped up and it does work very well.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Marty said:


> What's that belt driving back there??


That's not a belt. It's on the end of the input shaft going into the rear diff. Prolly some kind of balancer. It's metal, not rubber.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

996cab said:


> Well,
> am glad you checked as many in the UK 'assume' TTS parts can be fitted on the TT-RS...it is the other way round iften i.e. TT-RS parts to fit TTS...so best stick to TT-RS specific item if for nothing else mainly due to the increased power and weight that these parts will have to deal with.
> 
> Also note that the rear ARB should be 22mm MAX else it will rub against other parts. We found H&R ARBs were best fit...there is a specific 24mm front and 22mm rears that you will need. I do not have the part numbers however I understand there is only one 24mm & 22mm for the TT-RS range.
> ...


I forget what the stock RSB dimension is. Do you know? 22mm doesn't seem like such an upgrade. The Neuspeed bar was significantly bigger than stock.

I bet that with a different shape, a 25mm bar will fit.


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## 996cab (Aug 13, 2011)

DrDomm said:


> I forget what the stock RSB dimension is. Do you know? 22mm doesn't seem like such an upgrade. The Neuspeed bar was significantly bigger than stock.
> 
> I bet that with a different shape, a 25mm bar will fit.


The stock is 19mm front & 17mm rears if my memory serves me right. 

The 24mm front / 22mm rear upgrade is large enough we have all found. Those who went larger came back to 24 / 22 due to rubbing issues.

I originally went 26mm front / 24mm rear and it rubbed so stuck to convention...!


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

996cab said:


> The stock is 19mm front & 17mm rears if my memory serves me right.
> 
> The 24mm front / 22mm rear upgrade is large enough we have all found. Those who went larger came back to 24 / 22 due to rubbing issues.
> 
> I originally went 26mm front / 24mm rear and it rubbed so stuck to convention...!


Neuspeed told me they knew it would rub. They aren't sure if they will make an RS bar. I hope so.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

DrDomm said:


> Neuspeed told me they knew it would rub. They aren't sure if they will make an RS bar. I hope so.


Do they know what the reason is for the change in dimensions down there (what'd Audi change on the TT-RS)?


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Hey DrDromm, did you solve your sway bar issues? I hear H&R makes a compatible bar, but I haven't found confirmed evidence of a well-fitting bar for the TT-RS.


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## bigstu (Mar 6, 2008)

*TT-RS H&R ARB kit part number*

The model number for the 24mm front and 22mm rear H&R sway bar kit for the TT-RS is: 33220-2 

I haven't really tried to get these yet, but was told that emailing [email protected] may help. Otherwise contact your normal H&R dealer and ask if they can get this part number. When you search, it only comes for overseas dealers.


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## AppleChilli (Jan 10, 2012)

Subscribed. Very good flow of information here. Sorry to hear about your difficulties DrDomm.


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## dogdrive (Oct 19, 2005)

I spoke to a H&R rep sometime last week. 
He mentioned that they really don't have anything for thge RS at this moment. 
He suspected it probably won't be until another 6 months from now when they do a press release on TT-RS suspension parts...


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

dogdrive said:


> I spoke to a H&R rep sometime last week.
> He mentioned that they really don't have anything for thge RS at this moment.
> He suspected it probably won't be until another 6 months from now when they do a press release on TT-RS suspension parts...


 The question is, does the H&R rear bar for the regular Mk2 TT fit the TT-RS (since it has a different Haldex shape).


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

AppleChilli said:


> Subscribed. Very good flow of information here. Sorry to hear about your difficulties DrDomm.


 I'm ok  I actually sold that bar to someone here. I was hoping Neuspeed would just modify the bar they sell, so that it will fit TT/TTS/TTRS.


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## DesertTTRS (Dec 17, 2011)

*TT RS sway bars*

Shox.com supplied the H&R sways to me!


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## bigstu (Mar 6, 2008)

Did you buy H&R model number 33220-2 from shox.com?


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## DesertTTRS (Dec 17, 2011)

*33220-2 is the correct part #*

includes the 24mm frt and 22 mm rear. Both are 2 hole adjustable. Going on my TT RS with H&R lowering springs P/N 29102-2 - .7 inch drop.Also have the adjustable drop links from 034 Motorsport. These will allow the install w/o any preload on the rear bar.I you preload the rear bar your car will be bouncy!


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

DesertTTRS said:


> includes the 24mm frt and 22 mm rear. Both are 2 hole adjustable. Going on my TT RS with H&R lowering springs P/N 29102-2 - .7 inch drop.Also have the adjustable drop links from 034 Motorsport. These will allow the install w/o any preload on the rear bar.I you preload the rear bar your car will be bouncy!


 Have any pics of the rear bar?  As for the front bar, this car doesn't need any more under steer.


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## DesertTTRS (Dec 17, 2011)

*Why do you think more understeer - size differential stock is 5mm - kit maintains*

that 5 mm differential. Actually playing with the adjustments - stiffer rear vs soft frt will yield less understeer than non-adjustable stock bars. One key here is not preloading the sway bars. I've set up suspension on V8 S4's,Porsches,RS4 etc and find that a properly set up set of bars is always better than a single bar.Bars are still in package .


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

Marty said:


> Have any pics of the rear bar?  As for the front bar, this car doesn't need any more under steer.


 Do them both for balance with larger or equal in rear. I have the Neuspeed setup in the TTS....it's balanced not understeer....and flat. How much heavier is the 5 cyl than the 4 cyl? You might want a bigger rear if the weight difference is significant?


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

DesertTTRS said:


> that 5 mm differential. Actually playing with the adjustments - stiffer rear vs soft frt will yield less understeer than non-adjustable stock bars. One key here is not preloading the sway bars. I've set up suspension on V8 S4's,Porsches,RS4 etc and find that a properly set up set of bars is always better than a single bar.Bars are still in package .


 Keep in mind that the torsional stiffness of a bar is proportional to the *4th power* of its diameter. So a bar that is twice the diameter is actually 16 times stiffer in torsion. 

Assuming the stock bars are 19mm front / 17mm rear, then the ratio of REAR bar stiffness to front bar stiffness is (17/19)^4 = 64%. 

For the H&R bars of 24mm front / 22mm rear, the ratio of rear bar stiffness to front bar stiffness is (22/24)^4 = 71%. 

So swapping in the H&R bars makes the rear bar to front bar stiffness ratio a little bit larger, but not dramatically so. 

However, if you keep the stock 19mm front bar and just add a 22mm rear bar, then the stiffness ratio is (22/19)^4 = 180%, which is a huge increase in ratio. 

These calculations neglect adjustable moment arm lengths on the adjustable bars, but you get the point. 

If only the rear bar is being changed, then I have a feeling that jumping up to 22mm might be too much.


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## mageus (Sep 1, 2004)

Desert,
Do you find a big benefit of the aftermarket end links with aftermarket bars? Some questions about the end links:

- How are they adjustable? I presume it's the end socket which appears threaded in the pics.
- What is your set point? Do you just drop it until there is no tension on the bar, or do you have to drive it around and play with different settings?

Hanging around this board is not good for my wallet. ARB was a given, but now I'm thinking about torque inserts and end links and all kinds of crazy talk!


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Marty said:


> If only the rear bar is being changed, then I have a feeling that jumping up to 22mm might be too much.


Most of us did just the Neuspeed RSB on the TTS. That was 25mm. No matter what size rear bar, this thing will still have some understeer...which is fine.


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## TallaiMan (Mar 2, 2004)

Sorry to bump this up, but we have a little something in the works for you guys... 

*034Motorsport Audi TT RS & Audi RS3 Adjustable Solid Rear Sway Bar*


362% Increased Sway Bar Rate
22.25mm Diameter
Solid Spring Steel Construction
3-Way Adjustable
Easy-to-Lubricate Sway Bar Bushings



Clicky!


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## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

Awesome.

Have already got your end links - will go pre-order this now!


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## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

Nuts... Quoting $600 for shipping to .AU via USPS 

Have pinged you via your contact me form on your website. If you could get back to me that would be great!


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Pretty awesome! Why not do 25mm, as the TTS Neuspeed bar? Just curious.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

DrDomm said:


> Pretty awesome! Why not do 25mm, as the TTS Neuspeed bar? Just curious.


362% not enough of a stiffness increase?


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

DrDomm said:


> Pretty awesome! Why not do 25mm, as the TTS Neuspeed bar? Just curious.


I thought someone tried one here and it hit a transfer case?


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Marty said:


> 362% not enough of a stiffness increase?


Well what's the increase on the 25mm Neuspeed bar? I don't know. If it's 400%, then based on my impressions on the TTS, 362% might not be enough.

Anyway, I think there is already another 22mm bar on the market. H&R?


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

GaBoYnFla said:


> I thought someone tried one here and it hit a transfer case?


That was me. A slight modification in the bend, and 25mm would work fine.


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## TallaiMan (Mar 2, 2004)

The 362% is not a typo. The 034Motorsport Audi TT RS & Audi RS3 Adjustable Solid Rear Sway Bar is *solid*, not tubular, like some other bars on the market.

The Neuspeed TTS bar, while 25mm in diameter, is *hollow*, and about half as stiff as our solid rear bar is: http://www.neuspeed.com/131/2/0/1649/2502254-neuspeed-rear-anti-sway-bar-25mm.html

It also does not fit the TT RS.

Our bar was designed specifically for the Audi TT RS, and to be used without any need to replace the front sway bar. It virtually eliminates body roll, and allows the car to rotate if desired.

It drastically changed the handling characteristics of our TT RS for the better, and has seen street and track testing. :thumbup:


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Has anybody had any issues with their rear swaybar endlinks on their TT? I have a hard time believing that these generally need to be upgraded with the stiffer bar.


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## TallaiMan (Mar 2, 2004)

Marty said:


> Has anybody had any issues with their rear swaybar endlinks on their TT? I have a hard time believing that these generally need to be upgraded with the stiffer bar.


The stock sway bar end links won't break, even with an upgraded bar as stiff as ours.

We recommend our Sway Bar End Link Pair for two reasons:



First and foremost, they are adjustable, allowing you to adjust preload on the sway bar. Even factory Audi/Volkswagen sway bars will vary in preload, and the use of an adjustable end link will allow you to compensate for that.
They eliminate the rubber found on the stock sway bar end links in favor of sphericals. Rubber deflects, making to sway bar less effective.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

TallaiMan said:


> The stock sway bar end links won't break, even with an upgraded bar as stiff as ours.
> 
> We recommend our Sway Bar End Link Pair for two reasons:
> 
> ...


Could you talk more about the "preload" concern? The preload can't be very much, otherwise you wouldn't be able to assemble the stock endlinks on to the aftermarket bar by hand in the first place.


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## TallaiMan (Mar 2, 2004)

Marty said:


> Could you talk more about the "preload" concern? The preload can't be very much, otherwise you wouldn't be able to assemble the stock endlinks on to the aftermarket bar by hand in the first place.


Preload will not necessarily make it harder to install the stock endlinks onto an aftermarket bar, as most of the time the suspension is put under load to install the end links anyway.

The preload can vary from bar to bar, and usually isn't drastic. Again, even factory bars can vary in this respect. 

Once you cornerweight the car, (usually resulting in the car being lowered unevenly) you will inevitably have preload that you want to remove through the use of an adjustable end link.

Hope that helps answer your question!


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

This one has me interested. I found the upgraded RSB made a nice difference on the mkI, I suspect the same will be true on the RS.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

I definitely felt a lot of understeer at the track that I assume could be reduced in exchange for a bit of stability with a stiffer RSB like this. Definitely interested, but I'll probably wait for a few Guinea pigs to test fit these bars first so there aren't any headaches.


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## mageus (Sep 1, 2004)

H&R 22mm rear bar works great without any rubbing. Gonna post a writeup when I have the time.


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

Thanks. Will be anxious to hear your thoughts.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

mageus said:


> H&R 22mm rear bar works great without any rubbing. Gonna post a writeup when I have the time.


Is that bar solid? I'm impressed this 034 bar is solid.

Back to preload and adjustable end links...my (limited) understanding is that preloading the bar will affect corner weights when setting up a "racecar". To set up the racecar suspension, you'll be adjusting ride heights. If you don't have "coilovers", you aren't going to adjust ride height on the TT RS.

So...the stock end links should be "close" to the right length to install a bar that is the same shape/size as the stock bar...to have whatever amount (hopefully negligible) of preload Audi thought was appropriate. Likewise, I'm assuming the Neuspeed endlinks would be fine also.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

DrDomm said:


> Is that bar solid? I'm impressed this 034 bar is solid.
> 
> Back to preload and adjustable end links...my (limited) understanding is that preloading the bar will affect corner weights when setting up a "racecar". To set up the racecar suspension, you'll be adjusting ride heights. If you don't have "coilovers", you aren't going to adjust ride height on the TT RS.
> 
> So...the stock end links should be "close" to the right length to install a bar that is the same shape/size as the stock bar...to have whatever amount (hopefully negligible) of preload Audi thought was appropriate. Likewise, I'm assuming the Neuspeed endlinks would be fine also.


Endlinks really shouldn't make any difference for you unless you are trying to do precise corner balancing for a track-only car, or if the stock endlinks break with the stiffer bar.


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## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

Just ordered it guys (also have the sway bar end links which I haven't yet fitted).

Will post a review after it arrives.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Marty said:


> Endlinks really shouldn't make any difference for you unless you are trying to do precise corner balancing for a track-only car, or if the stock endlinks break with the stiffer bar.


That's what I was saying.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

DrDomm said:


> That's what I was saying.


Maybe thay's where I learned it!


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## mageus (Sep 1, 2004)

Posted a write-up on the H&R bar.

http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?5686437-TT-Mk2-H-amp-R-rear-ARB-install


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## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

Excited... Just found out my 034 swaybar just shipped.

Will have it fitted in the next few weeks and report back on results!


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

mageus said:


> Posted a write-up on the H&R bar.
> 
> http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?5686437-TT-Mk2-H-amp-R-rear-ARB-install


Looks like the H&R bar is 21mm, while the 034 bar is 22.25mm. Assuming they're both solid bars, then the 034 bar is (22.25/21)^4 = 126% as stiff as the H&R bar (26% stiffer). Given that the 034 is already "362% stiffer than stock", I bet either bar would perform similarly.

One thing I like about the H&R bar is that it includes urethane / teflon bushings that supposedly never need to be lubricated... the last thing I want to worry about is lubricating a squeaky sway bar bushing. And at ~$225 (H&R through ECS) vs. $325 (034 through 034), it seems like a bit of a no-brainer...


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## 996cab (Aug 13, 2011)

*TT-RS STock ARB dimensions are...*

OEM sizes...
fronts = 22mm
rears - 18.5mm

The H&R ARBs I got fitted some 2.5 years ago are as follows...;
fronts = 24mm
rears - 22mm

@Marty,
good point ref H&R bushings...been quiet from day one...ZERO maintenance. I did ask my tuner to swap the bushings for SuperPro items and he asked me why...we left things as that as I could not give him a reason worth noting...he could have easily taken my money...!!!


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## Stevelev (Mar 4, 2004)

Avoiding some squeaking can be meaningless to some; however, I personally hate it. I've had a few different manufacturers bars on my cars over the years and my current Neuspeed has squeaked in the cold weather. Not difficult to remedy with some lube or wrapping the bushings with teflon tape but given a lower price and mice free design, I'd say the H&R gets the :thumbup:


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Stevelev said:


> Avoiding some squeaking can be meaningless to some; however, I personally hate it. I've had a few different manufacturers bars on my cars over the years and my current Neuspeed has squeaked in the cold weather. Not difficult to remedy with some lube or wrapping the bushings with teflon tape but given a lower price and mice free design, I'd say the H&R gets the :thumbup:


Agreed. Just ordered an H&R!


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