# Telling calipers apart



## bugmeister (Feb 1, 2000)

Hi,
I am slowly getting all the bits together to update my A1/mk1 to 11"/280mm G60 rotors. I ended up buying some caliper adaptors (similar to http://www.vwcaddy.com/showthread.php?p=149035) which allow the fitting of pre-96 VR6 calipers & carriers (i.e. the models with 280mm rotors also). I have also been told Corrado G60 and mkIII GTI calipers will work.
Anyway I have started chasing down a set of these calipers & carriers, and have found a few sets where the seller wasn't totally sure the model/year they were out of.
One set I was keen on were Lucas 54's. My question is, are there any marking or measurements off the caliper and/or carrier which will confirm it's the 11"/280mm calipers I'm after?
Many thanks
Peter


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: Telling calipers apart (bugmeister)*

I've just finished upgrading my 97 MKIII Jetta GT from 10.1" to 11" Corrado G60 brakes, I know what you're going through, because I've made all the mistakes.
#1 Just about all the Girling calipers used on MKIIIs and newer models are 54s. Girling makes/made/marks most calipers 54s. Most Girling 54 calipers use the same caliper seal kits (a few use a less common seal kit, and are easily identified by the smaller diameter of the bleed valve.
10.1" MKIII ABA calipers are marked 54 (Girling, Lucas, VW), but they are physically different from the Girling 54 marked calipers used on VR6 cars (use the same seal kits).
11.3" ATE manufactured "DE" calipers are also marked "54"
#2 There are at least four different Girling 54 calipers used on VR6 VWs. Some can use the same caliper carriers, some use different caliper carriers and different rotors.
#3 If you have adapters made for 10.1" brake calipers, you need the calipers carriers from: Corrado G60 Girling 54 11" 4-bolt brake calipers. Some 93-94 Passat VR6s use the same calipers and carriers as the Corrado G60, BUT in looking for the last two years I only found one such car.
The Corrado G60 and VR6/SLC use the same brake calipers (same part listed for some early MKIII VR6 cars). They have different steering knuckles with different caliper carrier mounting spacing. 
There is a part number change for MKIII VR6 front calipers, BUT MKIII Golf/Jetta VR6 calipers up to Model 94 (not 95) can be used with the Corrado G60 caliper carriers and Corrado 4-bolt 11" front brake rotors. VR6 calipers were changed in Model Year 95, and the rotors are thinner in thickness for/from Model Year 95. Caliper carriers for 95 VR6 calipers have a narrower cut for the rotors to pass through and the Corrado rotors will not fit through the 95 caliper carriers 
10.1" caliper carriers VS 11" caliper carriers. They look identical without some experience and direct comparison. Steering Knuckle to Carrier Mounting Holes are the same distance. Carrier Mounting Holes to Caliper Mounting Holes are a different distance (longer on 11" G60 caliper carriers than 10.1" carriers).
10.1" calipers VS 11" calipers. The Corrado G60 calipers and VR6 calipers are deeper front to rear than the 10.1" calipers. Brake pads have identical outside dimensions (pad backing plate and pad friction material), BUT the two ears on each brake pad backing plate (that position the pad in the caliper carrier) are different.
Differences in dimensions are probably more than 1/4" and less than 1/2", so it's hard to tell if you don't know what you're looking at. I've spent hours at junkyards trying to tell the difference on calipers and carriers mounted on cars, and it's really hard/nearly impossible.
Now that I have held many of the parts, I am fairly sure that I could tell them apart. I'm not sure that photos could easily show the difference, this is one of those: "...you gotta be there to understand..." situations.
Speaking from experience, I'd say that you need to be careful calipers and carriers from Sellers who claim they came from a Corrado G60. It appears that many people are selling parts that don't know, or have forgotten where or what they actually came from. It's hard to tell for sure, because the G60 and VR6 use the same brake caliper.
Compatible calipers are easy to find/get, as they were used on many models/cars. The problem is finding a set of Corrado G60 caliper carriers. All of the different 10.1" and 11" Girling caliper carriers are marked in a similar manner with similar numbers.
I bought my first set of Corrado G60 calipers and caliper carriers from a fellow Vortex Member last year. I didn't get around to prepping (installing new caliper and slider seals) them to install in my car till less than a month ago, and when I did, I found that that what I received was Corrado G60 caliper carriers, with two different calipers. the calipers are both Girling 54s, and compatible with 11" 4-bolt rotors, but they were two different models that need different caliper seal kits.
I went down to the junkyard to try to find another VR6 caliper that would match either of the two calipers that I already had, and came accross a matching pair of calipers with Corrado G60 carriers (the first set that I have seen in the two years I've been looking). So, I ended up buying them, and just installed them on my 97 Jetta this last Sunday. The only problem now is that I bought Meyle (Germany) Corrado 11" 4-bolt rotors, and when they arrived, I was surprised to find that the rotors are satin chrome plated. I'm not going to complain, but now, I need to sell the BeckArnley Premium rear disc rotors that I bought to get matching Meyle plated rear disc rotors.
So, if you need a set of Corrado G60 calipers and carriers, I have a good set for sale with mounting bolts and brake pads (pads are about 40%-50%). New slide pin boots are needed (about $5). I will include a caliper seal kit, but one caliper may need a different seal kit (about $6.29 from autohausaz.com).
I placed an ad on Vortex, and I think I listed the price as $100 shipped.
IM me if you have any more questions, or with your email address for photos.


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## bugmeister (Feb 1, 2000)

*Re: Telling calipers apart (germancarnut51)*

germancarnut51,
Thans for taking the time to make such a comprehensive reply. It kind of confirms to me though that it is very difficult to determine the caliper without categorically knowing the source car.
One thing I am still confused about though is the carriers. Since I bought the caliper mounts (a link is in the original post), I assume I don't need to chase down the G60 carriers, and can instead just opt for any 11" caliper/carrier combination?
Also you suggested that by looking you maybe able to tell from a picture, whether the calipers are indeed off an 11" car? Here are the calipers I was really interested in buying: 








I am guessing though from their "newness" that they maybe off a newer 11.3" car perhaps?
Thanks in advance,
Peter


_Modified by bugmeister at 5:32 PM 3-20-2010_


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: Telling calipers apart (bugmeister)*

The 11.3" calipers that I've seen were all made by ATE, and all marked "DE", so those aren't 11.3" calipers.
Without being able to see the other side (machining, and bolt centers) in clear undistorted photos, I can't even guess whether they're 10.1" or 11" calipers. The castings of the caliper carriers are different from all of the others that I can remember.
One clue would be the diameter of the bleed valves. It appears that Girling used a small diameter (threaded hole) for the bleed valves for a short period of time, which may help date those calipers.
Those might be 95 calipers which are not compatible with earlier calipers or carriers, or rotors. The Corrado 11" 4-bolt rotors are thicker than the clearance cut in the 95 caliper carriers, so they won't work.
VR6s used at least 3 or 4 different calipers before 1996, and they had at least two different (non-compatible, non-interchangable) caliper carriers.
I took a look at the caliper carrier adapters in the link you provided. They aren't adjustable, they're made to work with a specific caliper carrier. You need to find out if the adapters were made to be used with caliper carriers from a Jetta VR6 or Corrado G60, or a Passat VR6 and what year.
Remember, finding a set of 11" Girling calipers that will work should not be a problem (probably must be from a 94 or earlier Corrado, Jetta VR6, or Golf/GTI VR6, or some Passat VR6).
It's the caliper carriers that are critical.
You are going to have to either buy a set of calipers and carriers that are known to be from a specific model and model year or start buying calipers and carriers and trying them untill you find a set that fits/works.
I would hope that the caliper carrier adapters were machined to fit readily available caliper carriers (like those of the early Jetta VR6/Corrado VR6, and not the caliper carriers of the Corrado G60, which are much harder to find.
Is there any way to contact the manufacturer of the caliper adapters, and ask him/her which caliper carriers the adapters were made to fit?


_Modified by germancarnut51 at 10:39 PM 3-20-2010_


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## bugmeister (Feb 1, 2000)

*Re: Telling calipers apart (germancarnut51)*

Thanks for the reply








Apparently the following calipers will work with the adapters:
Golf MK3 VR6 (pre 1995)
Golf MK3 GTi 8v & 16v (pre 1995)
Corrado G60
Corrado VR6
Unfortunately sourcing VR6 calipers within Australia is difficult and expensive (to the tune of I couldn't justify it for an old A1), therefore that's why I'm hoping to get the necessary calipers from the US. I assume the calipers would fit in the USPS $40-50 prepaid box, so even with shipping they come out much cheaper then over here.
Sorry I forgot to mention that those calipers I posted a pic of are apparently from a Corrado VR6. Did the Corrado VR6 change caliper in 95 also? If so I am just thinking that without knowing the year model those calipers came from I should just look for another set which I know is pre 95.
Thanks
Peter


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: Telling calipers apart (bugmeister)*

I think the last Corrado SLC/VR6 we got here in the States was 1994.
All of the calipers you noted feature the same caliper carriers, and calipers, EXCEPT the Corrado G60, which used the same calipers with DIFFERENT CALIPER CARRIERS.
So, if I were you, I would concentrate on locating a set of Pre-1995 calipers and caliper carriers from a VR6 engined car.
I took a quick look at the cost of shipping, and I think that two calipers will fit/could ship in a $45 Priority Mail Flat Rate Box. I would have to check the weight (must weight less than 20lbs). If two calipers in a shipping box exceeds 20lbs, it would still be cheaper to send two Flat Rate boxes at $45 each, than it would be to send one box at the higher shipping rate (either about $140 or $265). 
I know where there are several sets of used VR6 calipers in good condition that are in the right model year range, and the cost would be less than $100 for a set (plus the shipping). I could also send a/some caliper seal kits with them (you pay for the kit/s) if you would like (a seal kit includes the dust boots and piston seals for two calipers, and they weight less than an ounce). I usually send the mounting bolts with calipers, but if they run the weight up over the 20lbs limit, I'd leave them out. I don't always get the brake pads with used calipers, and I would suggest leaving them off anyway, since they weigh a substantial amount, and you should be able to get some good Axxis/PBR/Repco since they're made in AUS.
If you're interested, let me know, and I can go to the Post Office with the Corrado Calipers that I have for sale to check the weight. They should be close enough in weight to the VR6 calipers you need to get an idea of what the story on shipping will be.


_Modified by germancarnut51 at 5:09 AM 3-21-2010_


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## bugmeister (Feb 1, 2000)

*Re: Telling calipers apart (germancarnut51)*

germancarnut51,
Yeah I am pretty sure the adapters are for the VR6 calipers (I.e. to adapt a more common caliper), at least that's the assumption I've been working.
If you could pickup a set of calipers then I'd appreciate it, but only if it's not too much hassle as even just the info you have provided has been great. Like you said sourcing the pads is easy & inexpensive here, just so few of the cars being wrecked that the calipers are a different story! Perhaps IM me and we'll exchange payment details & confirm the shipping etc.
Once again thanks
Peter


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: Telling calipers apart (bugmeister)*

I'm getting more serious about locating a transmission for my 97 Jetta now that Ive got the brakes sorted/upgraded/service. So, I'm going into a regular/continuous junkyard exploration cycle.
Picking up a pair of calipers and carriers for you should not be a problem, as long as I'm working on your money to buy them and not mine.
I go ahead and bring a Corrado caliper and carrier to the Post Office when I go tomorrow, confirm the cost of shipping, and let you know.


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: Telling calipers apart (bugmeister)*

I just got back from the Post Office and I got the rate information we needed.
I'll send you an IM.


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