# secret code 16514



## userpike (Oct 21, 2010)

Hello readers, I'm trying to make sense of the trouble code 16514. 
Ross Tech wiki is not so explanatory about it and there aren't many posts about it on the forum. 
Those of which in the search, either never posted their fix to the problem or wasn't insightful enough for me to diagnose my issue. 

I have VCDS light with a generic ebay dongle. 
I'm not sure which basic settings test I should perform to find out if I need to replace the precat sensor. 
I also would like to know if it might be the wiring instead of the sensor itself for this code, so I know to look for a break somewhere.

Included codes: all four cylinder miss fires and also the random miss fire codes.(I changed plugs less than 500 miles ago thinking this might fix the missfires, also I had the dealer put in the new coil packs from the recall for free a couple/few months ago) I think this issue is part of the result of the 16514 issue.

also the 17705 (check DV!! and bla bla)code, which I have a theory about that because of my experience with pressure testing the system the other day. I may post and ask about separately later.

right now I'm more so worried about what to do with the o2 sensor issue. I guess i just don't want to buy a new one if I don't need it. 

When I unplug the MAF it runs the same but doesn't go into limp mode as much but it still does...and the car seems to act up less in colder weather( high 60s to mid 70s....I live in FL that's cold down here) and run better very noticeably.
the engine is an awp thats got prettymuch everything you could think of (bolt ons, headwork and reflash) but still has stock inner rotating assembly and ko3s turbo.
I have put almost 400 miles on it since I last reset the ECU. After my shift tonight I should have closer to 500, if not more. 
Thanks for any insight to my current issue.


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2009)

O2 Sensor Circ. Bank1-Sensor1 Malfunction


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## userpike (Oct 21, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> O2 Sensor Circ. Bank1-Sensor1 Malfunction


 Thank you Captain Obvious...:screwy::facepalm:


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## userpike (Oct 21, 2010)

wow, 86 views and no real comments or suggestions..:banghead:


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## 87vr6 (Jan 17, 2002)

Bank 1 sensor 1 is the primary O2 I believe... so if that's bad, it's the one that measures your A/F mixture... It's likely the root of your problems here...


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## Balomo41 (Apr 2, 2009)

When I have missfire I just ignore them and look for a root problem causing missfiring. for instance if you crank the car and engine fails to start, it will trow many kinds of codes including misfire or cps, try to find 02 sensor spacer and see if that will help.
Today I'm going to swap my turbos, one is finished.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Coilpack harness?


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

userpike said:


> Thank you Captain Obvious...:screwy::facepalm:


^^^Andrew was trying to help you. It sounds like you have an o2 sensor problem, I don't understand why you facepalm'd him 

misfires are normally cause by 3 things. 1) bad o2 sensor 2) bad coilpack(s) 3)Boost/vacuum leaks when using a MAF. you said you have pressure tested the system and you have newish OEM coils so that leaves only one logical answer


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

also wtf is a secret code  :facepalm:


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## userpike (Oct 21, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> also wtf is a secret code  :facepalm:


I face palmed myself out of frustration. I already know what the 16514 is... I have a registered version of VCDS lite... I thought I made that clear in my original post.
I checked the Ross Tech wiki on the code and there isn't much information there, nor when I checked the forum. My questions were not what the code is for, but what could be the causes. Again I thought I was clear on that, but I guess not? 
Also the title was just to attract readers, which it seems to have worked.


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## userpike (Oct 21, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Coilpack harness?


 Been there done that already also about 6 months ago due to cracks in the wire insulation.


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## userpike (Oct 21, 2010)

87vr6 said:


> Bank 1 sensor 1 is the primary O2 I believe... so if that's bad, it's the one that measures your A/F mixture... It's likely the root of your problems here...


thank you sir, I concur with your beliefs.


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## userpike (Oct 21, 2010)

Balomo41 said:


> When I have missfire I just ignore them and look for a root problem causing missfiring. for instance if you crank the car and engine fails to start, it will trow many kinds of codes including misfire or cps, try to find 02 sensor spacer and see if that will help.
> Today I'm going to swap my turbos, one is finished.


I don't think you are supposed to run a spacer on the pre cat sensor, only the post CAT sensor. I do have full 3" exhaust including a hi flow Magnaflow CAT with a 42DD o2 spacer on the post cat sensor.


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## userpike (Oct 21, 2010)

*Update*

The CEL has turned off and on 3 times within the 400+ miles I have driven after I reset the ECU. 
No new codes have shown up. Only the original 7 that were there the first time I scanned my car using VCDS and posted about above (I didn't clear them on purpose). They showed up the first time I scanned my car after I reset the ECU.

This is why I asked in my original post if the problem could be a break in the wires somewhere or if because the sensor itself malfunctions and throws the 16514 code. This is o2 sensor replacement #2 for the pre cat location.(bank 1 sensor1) It does have around 70 to 80000 miles on it. (181000 miles on engine) The original sensor was replaced because the heater circuit failed. 

It just occurred to me to ask: How hot can an o2 sensor get before it fails? 

I went from 0mph to 143ish and held it at top speed for maybe 30 or 40 seconds.:laugh::screwy::laugh: ( wish I logged the run now...) My EGT gauge was reading a little higher than 1400 degrees F :thumbdown::facepalm: The EGT sensor is placed about a foot after the turbocharger. 

Is there a possibility I may have overheated the o2 sensor? and that's why I get the 16514 code?


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## userpike (Oct 21, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> misfires are normally cause by 3 things. 1) bad o2 sensor 2) bad coilpack(s) 3)Boost/vacuum leaks when using a MAF. you said you have pressure tested the system and you have newish OEM coils so that leaves only one logical answer


I have questions about when I pressure tested my system. I think it may be leaking out the DV. I have 2 007s and a stock DV. All of which work fine and hold vacuum and boost. (got 1 of the 007s for 20 bucks brand new at a swap meet) anyway, after installing each one on the car I get the same reactions, sounds and performance when comparing to the next one. 

My vacuum system is stock. (besides some silicone lines I ran to replace the crappy plastic ones that broke) Could the check valve between the N249 and the vacuum reservoir be malfunctioning? If it wasn't doing it's job it would possibly allow boost to be diverted because it would allow for bleeding off the boost in the vacuum system while under boost. (look at the AWP vacuum diagram to see what and where I am talking about)


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Are you sure you have the correct sensor? The AWW had a narrowband o2, the AWP had wideband o2...


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## userpike (Oct 21, 2010)

l88m22vette said:


> Are you sure you have the correct sensor? The AWW had a narrowband o2, the AWP had wideband o2...


no sir, that is incorrect. 

The AWW and AWP engine use the SAME part number o2 sensors. The AWW/AWP actually have both, a wide and narrow band o2 sensor (wideband pre cat and narrow band post cat)

The AWD engine code is the one with a different part number for the precat o2 sensor (this one is the narrow band sensor you are talking about) this is according to both the ECS Tuning website and Napa Auto Online.

The precat o2 sensor for the AWD engine won't even connect to the AWP/AWW connector because the AWD is a 4 wire connector and the AWW/AWP connector are a 6 wire on the pre cat sensor so I'm absolutely certain I have the correct o2 sensors installed....plus it's only recently my car has had the 16514 code.


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## Pavel S (Dec 23, 2012)

Hi, 
did you find any solution? I am despairing with this error code... 
I replaced the precat 02 sensor but the same error is appeared again.

I cant find anything bad on my car. Consumption looks normal, maybe little bit higher, but no more than 0,5 l/100 km and its normal now in winter I think. 

I was changing cylinder head seal due to oil leaking to cooling water. 16514 was appeared after about 500 kilometres after that. When I clear it, it is back again after 3-5 starts and around 50 km.


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## userpike (Oct 21, 2010)

Pavel S said:


> Hi,
> did you find any solution? I am despairing with this error code...
> I replaced the precat 02 sensor but the same error is appeared again.
> 
> ...


Since you said you replaced the sensor and still get the code, I suggest you check the wiring for breaks. I replaced mine and the code never came back. There is the possibility that the new part could have been faulty. It's doubtfull but plausable.

When you figure it out, please post your solution. I am usually good with finalizing the threads but this one got away from me somehow. I appologize.

Good luck.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

17705 is software bug that actually has to due with the SAI and whatnot.
A proper tune will get rid of this problem.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

userpike said:


> (snip )It just occurred to me to ask: How hot can an o2 sensor get before it fails?
> 
> I went from 0mph to 143ish and held it at top speed for maybe 30 or 40 seconds.:laugh::screwy::laugh: ( wish I logged the run now...) My EGT gauge was reading a little higher than 1400 degrees F :thumbdown::facepalm: The EGT sensor is placed about a foot after the turbocharger.
> 
> Is there a possibility I may have overheated the o2 sensor? and that's why I get the 16514 code?


I believe the correct figure for Wide-band sensors is 900 F at the hex. Wide-band sensors will not tolerate as much heat as a narrow band sensor. Beware of this with aftermarket downpipes or O2 bungs welded in by exhaust shops. How far from the turbo is the WB O2 sensor? 

Some good technical data on WB O2 sensors:

http://www.wbo2.com/lsu/lsuinstal.pdf

http://www.haltech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/wideband_manual_1.0.pdf


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Pavel S said:


> Hi,
> did you find any solution? I am despairing with this error code...
> I replaced the precat 02 sensor but the same error is appeared again.
> 
> ...


Antifreeze contamination can permanently damage an O2 sensor. If water got into the Cylinders that could be the issue. 

Silicon will also permanently damage an O2 sensor. 

Pictures of damaged O2 sensors:

http://www.boschautoparts.com/BAP_Technical_Resources/Oxygen Sensors/BoschTips_faultyO2.pdf


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## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

Ironic that the op commented that what references there were to the error code... Secret code ... Never posted the resolution... +1 to that crowd eh? 

For the record, I have had a number of misfires eliminated when I cleaned out my spark plug wells of the oil that had collected there prior to being able to do an inner valve cover seal replacement.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

O2 sensor harness... Bad ground, or a cracked wire(s)


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## Pavel S (Dec 23, 2012)

userpike said:


> Since you said you replaced the sensor and still get the code, I suggest you check the wiring for breaks. I replaced mine and the code never came back. There is the possibility that the new part could have been faulty. It's doubtfull but plausable.
> 
> When you figure it out, please post your solution. I am usually good with finalizing the threads but this one got away from me somehow. I appologize.
> 
> Good luck.


Yesterday comes new error - 17584 Bank1 O2S correction behind catalyst control limit reached

So, I think there is no problem with first sensor, but with the second one behind cat. 
Question is why VAG reports that 16514 which is sensor 1. 
I check the sensor behind cat today and everything looks good. Voltage on heating is around 13,5 V with started engine, voltage on pins 3 and 4 is 0,41 V (0,4-0,5 is normal) 
Only when i measured resistance between pins 1 and 2 (heating) there was around 10 ohms. Should be 1-4 ohms. But I think its not problem or is it?? 

All the same I did on first sensor too and there is absolutely no problem. Even the resistance is around 3-4 ohms. 

So where the hell can be problem :banghead: 
I hope I can find some cheap solution.


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## wobbie_t (Jan 26, 2013)

Hi if you still have an issue with this random miss fire on all cylenders do you get a small miss fire feeling when driving. or any juddering. if you do the fault will be the MAF. are you running a no gen air filter?


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## Pavel S (Dec 23, 2012)

*16514 Solved finaly!!*

When error:

17584 Bank1 O2S correction behind catalyst control limit reached

appeared I try to test oxygen sensors on VAG. 

So run VAG > basic setings > group 34 and 43 (precat and postcat sensor) and stand on brake.
Engine increases speed to cca 1400 RPM and test is running for a while. After few minutes you can see result - R1-S1 OK, R1-S2 OK, R1-S1 notOK, R1-S2 notOK.

My result was R1-S2 notOK! So I replaced the second sensor (the post cat controling sensor) and there is finaly no error. One month and about 1000 km and no problem. Even if 16514 is first pre cat sensor error, the solution is replaced the post cat sensor!! So you never can solved this error by replacing the pre cat sensor!!

Question is why is damaged the post cat sensor after disassemling engine head


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