# Is This how Gen4 competition Haldex controller feels on the track?



## mrvr6turbo1 (Feb 22, 2006)

I am still debating on buying a TTRS and track it occasionally. I was also looking into the HPA competition Haldex controller but this video looks like the TTRS is on 4 Soap Bars rather than wheels!!!

Any comments on this? Also someone has similar track videos with the competition controller?

It seems that he has all the power at the rear wheels!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MN1ffw_C4g


I hope it works like this video. I think it is the same guy. Car feels planted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej5rfpuU4q4


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

OHHHH JESUS HELL, this looks like fun, and trouble, IM IN! TELL ME HOW ITS DONE!!!!!!!!!!


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## Williamttrs (Mar 29, 2013)

mrvr6turbo1 said:


> I am still debating on buying a TTRS and track it occasionally. I was also looking into the HPA competition Haldex controller but this video looks like the TTRS is on 4 Soap Bars rather than wheels!!!
> 
> Any comments on this? Also someone has similar track videos with the competition controller?
> 
> ...


I am by no means an expert, but I watched the first video and the entire time I was thinking WTF. That is not my car! I have only tracked my car once but it did not feel like that video looked. I don't know what was up with all the jerking and oversteering. The second video sounded and looked much more like what my experience on the track was.


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## as350 (Nov 8, 2011)

Williamttrs said:


> I am by no means an expert, but I watched the first video and the entire time I was thinking WTF. That is not my car! I have only tracked my car once but it did not feel like that video looked. I don't know what was up with all the jerking and oversteering. The second video sounded and looked much more like what my experience on the track was.


Williamttrs, can you tell a difference, though? And are the advantages only evident on the track or during spirited driving as well or is it hard to tell? What are your overall thoughts on the comp controller?


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## mrvr6turbo1 (Feb 22, 2006)

Williamttrs,

Thank you for your post. After spending quite a few hours last night looking at videos, both from Golf R's and TTRS's on road and track with the Haldex Gen4 Comp controllers, I've come to the conclusion that the first video I posted is not the norm.

How in the world did he do that? He has SLICKS! and it is not stage 3!, I believe it is stage 1 or 2.

Anyway, getting some things squared away in order to pull the trigger on a TTRS.


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## [email protected] (Mar 25, 2013)

I have had the Comp controller now for 15 months, with several track days with R comps and my car never has behaved like that with all the nannies off. I get some nice rotation but nothing that extreme. I think the rear tires were gone on that first video…. On the street it is only noticeable when your aggressive with the car.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

I'm no expert, did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express and I don't have a comp controller, but I believe the guy in the first video sucks at driving. Just watching his input and reactions and listening to the throttle. Maybe he's trying to provoke the slides but he's doing a horrible job at keeping the car balanced and managing available grip


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## Josh/AWE (Feb 7, 2012)

JohnLZ7W said:


> I'm no expert, did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express and I don't have a comp controller, but I believe the guy in the first video sucks at driving. Just watching his input and reactions and listening to the throttle. Maybe he's trying to provoke the slides but he's doing a horrible job at keeping the car balanced and managing available grip


I'd like to second that it is more than likely a novice driver as his inputs were not smooth at all. 

Poor instructor.


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

i don't believe he's trying to be fast, he's just trying to do some slides and have some fun. turn wheel, right foot down, slide... doesn't make for a fast lap though.


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

As others have said, mine behaves nothing like that on track. I have the comp controller installed and can't tell any difference on street. I'm hoping the difference shows up in a positive way on track but don't expect it to be anything like what is seen in the video.


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## Williamttrs (Mar 29, 2013)

JohnLZ7W said:


> I'm no expert, did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express and I don't have a comp controller, but I believe the guy in the first video sucks at driving. Just watching his input and reactions and listening to the throttle. Maybe he's trying to provoke the slides but he's doing a horrible job at keeping the car balanced and managing available grip


I am glad you said that. That is exactly what I was thinking but since I have only been on a track twice I did not feel like I was qualified to say that he looked like a novice. I might have felt differently if I had stayed at a Holiday Inn Express


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## Fined (Sep 3, 2013)

the video clearly shows them intentionally putting bald tires on the rear of the car since the ground is dry.....


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## Williamttrs (Mar 29, 2013)

Fined said:


> the video clearly shows them intentionally putting bald tires on the rear of the car since the ground is dry.....


Well there is a bit of a language barrier it seems. After looking at the text at the beginning of the video I assume the "ended" tires are tires at the end of their life. I don't think the phrase is common to those of us in the US. Having said that, someone educate me. Is the rubber compound different when the tire is "ended" vs new? I think it makes sense that the video is just someone screwing around trying to break the rear-end loose. This is something that I have found to be very difficult to do. I am not sure why someone would intentionally put their car through all this torsion, but hey to each his own.


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## racerxjin (Feb 13, 2012)

Will/AWE said:


> I'd like to second that it is more than likely a novice driver as his inputs were not smooth at all.
> 
> Poor instructor.


I third that, the instructor should not be laughing. He was putting too much input and throttle.


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## mrvr6turbo1 (Feb 22, 2006)

Thank you guys for your responses. Yes, I believe he was just having fun with some “end of life” slick tires. I’ve seen some other videos of Stage 1 and 2 TTRS’s and they are awesome on track. (With the competition controller)

Lol….Holiday Inn Express!


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

yeah i know from experence how heat cycled r888's get. they've been 4 seconds down on a new set for me at only half worn. to get them all the way bald would be exactly like this vid shows. silly slippery. 
hell even sliding in the constant radius turns without throttle while watching a golf and 700lbs heavier rs5 do it without even leaning lol

this has absolutely nothing to do with the haldex controller haha


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## Williamttrs (Mar 29, 2013)

smack_ttrs said:


> yeah i know from experence how heat cycled r888's get. they've been 4 seconds down on a new set for me at only half worn. to get them all the way bald would be exactly like this vid shows. silly slippery.
> hell even sliding in the constant radius turns without throttle while watching a golf and 700lbs heavier rs5 do it without even leaning lol
> 
> this has absolutely nothing to do with the haldex controller haha


So I am trying to read between the lines. It sounds like you are saying that when a tire is at the end of its life it has not just worn the tread down (since slicks do not have tread) the tread compound is gone and all that is left is the carcus which is made of a different rubber. Is that correct? If that is correct, then I don't understand the statement about the tires being half worn. In this case half of the good rubber would still be on the tire and the part contacting the ground would not know the difference between a brand new tire and a half worn tire. Right? Does the amount of good rubber affect the way the tire handles and disperses heat? I have always assumed that the traction of a tire was not affected as it wears down with the exception of the tires ability to move through things like water and snow.


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

every time an r-compound tire gets up to temp and comes back down, that is one heat cycle. each cycle takes a bit of softness(grip) out of the tire. some tire brands/compounds are more susceptible than others. i was running shorter sessions when i was running those same tires as in the video so i was getting more cycles than wear. the tire got so hard it lost about 4 seconds a lap than a new set when i swapped out even though there was plenty of rubber left on the tire.


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

also to answer a bit of the rest of your question, yes a tire reacts differently depending on the amount of rubber on a non-slick r-compound like the ra1/r888/nt01 type tire. these tires all have tread blocks and are dot legal meaning they can be driven on the street. 
when one of these tires in new with full depth tread, the tread blocks squirm around under load which creates heat (and some slower response in handling). some is good as there is a optimal temp window that they make their most grip. too hot and they start loosing grip again. they call this feeling the tire got "greasy". most people that race on these tires will actually shave the blocks down to half their height or more to keep the new rubber and most grip without the extra squirminess/heat that the taller blocks create. i remember toyo reps telling me that you would get more life/wear out of an ra1 shaved than running it from full depth as they would wear quicker with the extra heat generated.

tires are an amazingly complex part of the equation. i wish i understood a 10th of a real tire engineer.


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## Williamttrs (Mar 29, 2013)

Thanks for the primer!


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## mrvr6turbo1 (Feb 22, 2006)

WOW keep it coming.....I am learning a lot here. :thumbup:

So if I track a TTRS, with stock 19 in wheels, is it better to run on 255 or 265/30 or 35 /19 slicks or dot race tires vs a 275/30/19 high performance street tire?


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

mrvr6turbo1 said:


> WOW keep it coming.....I am learning a lot here. :thumbup:
> 
> So if I track a TTRS, with stock 19 in wheels, is it better to run on 255 or 265/30 or 35 /19 slicks or dot race tires vs a 275/30/19 high performance street tire?


it's all up to what the driver's definition of "better" is. if you're looking for the fastest lap time then a slick is what you want. if you're looking for something that you can move around under you at moderate speeds and catchable then a street tire would be a better choice.
all things being equal more rubber generally means more material to disperse heat so between a 255 or 265 street tire i would take the 265 just for heat management alone. this will translate into more grip for more laps before the tire overheats and gets greasy. this will be an issue for pretty much any car that is still locked into the stock range of alignment specs. 

slicks are in a completely different league compared to street tires gripwise but there are definitely tradeoffs. logistics of having to get another set of wheels to track aside, as the grip level goes up, the edge of the envelope of when things go beyond the tires grip gets sharper. 
meaning that a street tire may start to lose grip in a corner at 35 and when it does it comes on more gradual. a slick my start to lose grip in that same corner at 50-60 and since there is so much more lateral load the momentum of the weigh trying to push itself to the outside edge of the corner snaps the car much quicker. there's much less time to correct and the speeds you carry are much higher so when things go wrong, they have a tendancy to go more wrong than on a street tire.

if a person doesn't have quite a bit of trackdays under their belt i wouldn't recommend going to a slick. you really want to be at a level where your corrections are more instinctual than having to think about what you need to do to fix the situation. 

just my .02


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

also this doesn't go into what the extra grip means in relation to braking or suspension which all matters as well


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## racerxjin (Feb 13, 2012)

From my track experience, Haldex by itself does not make your car over steer, although it does help on the Audi TT. I did my upgrades in groups so I don't know how it would be individually. 

1. Power upgrade. Turbo, Piping, ECU, Meth, Turbo back exhaust. No improvments in track. Understeer was more of a problem with the added power.
2. Suspension upgrade. Front and rear sway bar, Race Haldex, Front Big brake Kit. Made the car feel more neutral. Car was more manageable and turn in smoother.

I personally think the haldex really help Audis since we have understeer built in.
When it is wet or snowing your car is prone to oversteer. Your car is useless in snow.

Also here is my video of the last track day with the BMWCCA.


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

agreed, i also think it helps and i definitely noticed more willingness to throttle oversteer just goofing around in tight corners on the street. but just for clarification, i was saying that the idea of why that car in the first video was so loose was not because of the controller but rock hard tires.


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## racerxjin (Feb 13, 2012)

smack_ttrs said:


> agreed, i also think it helps and i definitely noticed more willingness to throttle oversteer just goofing around in tight corners on the street. but just for clarification, i was saying that the idea of why that car in the first video was so loose was not because of the controller but rock hard tires.


Yes and also his driving inputs was smooth as the Incredible Hulk.


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