# Timing belt on a 2.7 twin turbo



## timmymk2 (Mar 27, 2008)

does anybody know how hard it is to change the timing belt on a 2.7 twin turbo audi A6


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## b5in (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing belt on a 2.7 twin turbo (timmymk2)*

It's a pretty big job & you seriously have to take your time. I did it on my 1.8T Passat & will be doing soon on my 2.7T. There is a write up for it & you basically just follow along, but you need a good torq. wrench & again take your time & triple check everything & mark your timing before you take your old timing belt off.
Seriously just take your time & read the next step before you start doing it & you will be fine.
oh & did I mention take your time








BTW - I miss my '92 GTI 16V, I was just getting over her & then bam, I see your sig & brought back all the wonderful memories


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## b5in (Sep 10, 2003)

*FV-QR*

here's a link to the write up/diy:
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng63.shtml


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## vwr32forever (Sep 8, 2007)

*Re: Timing belt on a 2.7 twin turbo (timmymk2)*

dont try to do this job without the cam lock bar and the crank pin!!! Coming from a mechanic this is a pretty difficult job. My shop is in Maryland let me Know if I can help


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: Timing belt on a 2.7 twin turbo (vwr32forever)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwr32forever* »_dont try to do this job without the cam lock bar and the crank pin!!! Coming from a mechanic this is a pretty difficult job. My shop is in Maryland let me Know if I can help 

i thought it was fairly straight forward, just removing all the parts to get to the belt is serious pain in the but as we all know. as said, purchase the lockbar and pin(didnt use the pin) from ecs or rent it from blau if they do that still. 
i just looked at the DIY i did not need to loosen the cams???? slid on perfect no problem. 
where does the crank pin go by the way?


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## mikeyd32 (Sep 25, 2008)

so i got told 1200 with parts for my 2001 late model a6. ecs tuning sells there's for 4 something with the locking device around 3 w/o. 6.5 hours (quoted book from shop) 390 labor so were looking at like 7 w parts and around 3 doing it myself. does anyone suggest other parts for this?


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## JBallou (Jan 6, 2009)

I just stopped and talked to my old coworkers at the garage the I used to work at about this job. Their take on the job is that it can be done without removing the bumper or taking a little extra time and removing it. 
I specifically asked about the cam bar and crank pin, they said that the cams are not spring loaded and will not turn unless that you turn them. 
Meaning that if you mark it with a fine paint pen and get the belt on, then rotate the engine by hand with no plugs 2x and the marks still line up it is good to go.
I have a good deal of experience on t-belts and if it is not like a 2.5l subaru and cams are not loaded to rotate, mark it, rotate it by hand a few times, then you are good to go.


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## JBallou (Jan 6, 2009)

I guess that it is all relative to your experience and comfort level. Pain or not to do I am going to do it.


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## Massboykie (Aug 15, 2006)

*Re: Timing belt on a 2.7 twin turbo (timmymk2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *timmymk2* »_does anybody know how hard it is to change the timing belt on a 2.7 twin turbo audi A6









Hey Tim 
I've heard of some people doing it without the bar, but the bar is safer as far as I am concerned.
Here's the kit and you can rent all the tools for an extra few bucks.
http://www.blauparts.com/prodd...%2D1A
As far as doing it without taking the nose off... I would like to see pics of that...








Cheers
Massboykie


_Modified by Massboykie at 9:07 PM 1-11-2009_


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## drtbmxer (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: Timing belt on a 2.7 twin turbo (Massboykie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Massboykie* »_
As far as doing it without taking the nose off... I would like to see pics of that...









_Modified by Massboykie at 9:07 PM 1-11-2009_

X2 
i heard rumors of a guy who used to do this .........i also heard he wrecked 3 motors doing it this way before he was looking for a new job


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## vr6ninja (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: Timing belt on a 2.7 twin turbo (drtbmxer)*

Two guys where I work did this on one of there TTs I didn't watch the whole process but they were shoving all kinds of tool into the area between that tight area. It didn't look like something one who hasn't done a belt before would want to do.
I'm doing mine starting this Thursday, I bought the parts from ECS tuning. I rented the Cam Lock Bar and Pin from Pure Motorsports.
I like the idea of moving the engine around two cranks to check it. Thanks for the info definitely going to try that before I start the car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm doing more then just the timing belt. I'm covering at 78k:
Timing Belt
Water Pump
Valve Cover Gaskets
Spark Plugs
Air Filter
Fuel Filter
Oil Change
APR Snub Mount
The Ultimate Kit included CAM seals and Oil Pump Seals, I'm a little concerned about doing them since there isn't much documentation either online or in the Bentley Manual. I'll let you know how it goes, if anyone has some info on the seals please let me know.

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## Massboykie (Aug 15, 2006)

*Re: Timing belt on a 2.7 twin turbo (vr6ninja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6ninja* »_...The Ultimate Kit included CAM seals and Oil Pump Seals...

Hey VR
A friend of the family mentioned that he wouldn't bother with the CAM seals if they were not leaking as you might just have more trouble later. This guy's had many many years of experience so I would put some weight in what he said. He was referring to a motor that was still running the factory seals, though.
Audi had to replace all of mine under warrantee so I guess I would not bother with mine either, unless I see a problem. I don't know about oil pump seal, but I think you might be able to do the cam seals without taking the nose off, so personally this would be why would leave it until there is a problem.
Not sure what other people's take is on this though.
Mine just hit 62K, so I was thinking I would probably do mine at the end of the summer. I know it will be early, but the car will be about 7 years old, so I'm thinking time instead of the mileage...
Take some pics as you go along!








Cheers
Massboykie


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## JBallou (Jan 6, 2009)

I just finished doing the t-belt and v/c gaskets. It took a day and half. Everything that got removed got cleaned, I am like that on my own stuff.
Remove the front bumper if this is your first v6 t-belt. Yes it is a pain to remove the bumper and radiator stuff but EVERYTHING is easy to get at. I liked that.
Come to find out the belt had been replaced about 25k previously, but oh well. Cheers to proper documentation. Paint pen on the t-belt cover for mileage for me.
The biggest pain by far was the passenger v/c removal. WTF with the EGR bolted on the back of the head that gets in the way of removal. 
Words of advice: have a set of 5-6-7-8 allen head sockets and separate allens. Got to get a swivel offset kind as well.
Have a complete set of T-20 thru T-45, both sockets and screwdrivers for the small ones
Brake clean and a roll of rags for cleaning stuff.
I don't see a problem not replacing the cam seals on the front if there is absolutely no evidence of leaks. Supposedly thing is the cams gears are not keyed. Potentially the timing could be lost and no instructions to get it back. This is per blauparts instructions. Dumbest thing. Can anyone confirm this?
Got any Q's?


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## vr6ninja (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (JBallou)*

Well I've got the front bumper off, I can now see the timing belt and have released the tensioner. I'm calling it a night and continuing tomorrow. As JBallou said lot's of cleaning to do, I've got dusty oil all over the place in there from the valve covers.
I'm going to go with the same no replacement of the cam seals, I'll just hold onto them and if they ever have to be done I'll deal when that becomes an issue. I'm still torn on the front crank shaft/oil pump seal, I'll do some more research tomorrow.
JBallou did you loosen your cam gears any? I keep hearing make sure you do when you put the new belt on. The Bentley Manual says to do so as well as an AudiWorld Tech Article which mentions that they did it incorrectly and loosening the cam gears is the correct way. The Bentley manual suggests just using a hammer to loosen them, I had no luck tonight, I'm thinking I'll get a puller from the auto store tomorrow.
I haven't taken any photos so far but will pull out the camera tomorrow before going any farther.


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## JBallou (Jan 6, 2009)

No I did not loosen the gears. Did not understand why it is necc. But I am sure someone knows why. The belt went on very snug and made sure that the same # of notches on the belt went in the same area. Applied the required tension to the belt tensioner and tightened it up. I just can't see why there is the need to loosen the gears. To much potential to lose time, no keyway on the cams. 

What do the masters say?


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## vr6ninja (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (JBallou)*

I'm a little confused by the service manual, does anyone know what torque ratings the Timing Belt roller and tensioner roller should be?
I put them to 45 N-m (33 ft-lbs) based on the Bentley rating for the Accessory belt idler to crankcase.
I couldn't get the cam gears to release, so I'm not going to worry about it since the new belt fit on it correctly. I suspect the reasoning is to ensure that the new belt fits correctly, in case stretching of the belt occurred over time or the press fit moved. 
I'm taking photos but my cable isn't easy to get to at the moment hopefully they will be up tomorrow.


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## drtbmxer (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: (JBallou)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBallou* »_No I did not loosen the gears. Did not understand why it is necc. But I am sure someone knows why. The belt went on very snug and made sure that the same # of notches on the belt went in the same area. Applied the required tension to the belt tensioner and tightened it up. I just can't see why there is the need to loosen the gears. To much potential to lose time, no keyway on the cams. 

What do the masters say?

well not loosening the cam gears actually causes a greater chance of having the timing off...there isnt any timing marks on the cam gears so without having the cam bar in you really have no way of knowing if the cams are in the correct spot. the cam gears are independent of the cam itself when loosened. the little silver tabs in the middle of the cam gears with the two holes in them are what turns the cam when the gear is off/loose. when you loosen the cam gears and put the cam lock on the tabs you can spin the cam gears themselves any which way to get the belt on without haivng to worry about the motor being off time. with the bottom end locked in and the cam gears loose with the cam lock tool on there its a pretty quick job and pretty much impossible to lose the timing. just loosen the cam gears pop in the cam lock tool, lock in the bottom end, slip the belt on there, and everything is in time, just tighten the cam gears back up with the cam lock on there and unlock the bottom end, take the cam lock off and there is no way its off time, pretty much


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (drtbmxer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drtbmxer* »_
well not loosening the cam gears actually causes a greater chance of having the timing off...there isnt any timing marks on the cam gears so without having the cam bar in you really have no way of knowing if the cams are in the correct spot. the cam gears are independent of the cam itself when loosened. the little silver tabs in the middle of the cam gears with the two holes in them are what turns the cam when the gear is off/loose. when you loosen the cam gears and put the cam lock on the tabs you can spin the cam gears themselves any which way to get the belt on without haivng to worry about the motor being off time. with the bottom end locked in and the cam gears loose with the cam lock tool on there its a pretty quick job and pretty much impossible to lose the timing. just loosen the cam gears pop in the cam lock tool, lock in the bottom end, slip the belt on there, and everything is in time, just tighten the cam gears back up with the cam lock on there and unlock the bottom end, take the cam lock off and there is no way its off time, pretty much









still dont understand why it matters, it was easy to just lock the motor, slip old belt off, new one on and done..... maybe some people have issues, i had none at all on all 3 of the audi v6's ive done. piece o' cake once the front end was off...


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## vr6ninja (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (drtbmxer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drtbmxer* »_
well not loosening the cam gears actually causes a greater chance of having the timing off...there isn't any timing marks on the cam gears so without having the cam bar in you really have no way of knowing if the cams are in the correct spot. 

Please excuse my brain for not getting it. If you have the locking bar on and you put the timing belt on with the locking bar and it fits correctly then wouldn't you still have the right timing?
I couldn't get either cam gears loose, I tried the soft hammer trick and tried a pulley remover (cheap version of the cam removal tool). So I put the belt on and turned the engine around 5 or 6 times to make sure the cam locking tool still fit.


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## drtbmxer (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: (vr6ninja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6ninja* »_
Please excuse my brain for not getting it. If you have the locking bar on and you put the timing belt on with the locking bar and it fits correctly then wouldn't you still have the right timing?
I couldn't get either cam gears loose, I tried the soft hammer trick and tried a pulley remover (cheap version of the cam removal tool). So I put the belt on and turned the engine around 5 or 6 times to make sure the cam locking tool still fit.

your completely correct, having the locking bar on there, cam gears loose or not, the cams are in time, the reason for loosening the cam gears is simply to make the belt installation easier. if you can get it on with out any problems then there is no need to loosen the cam gears.....but it takes 2 secconds to loosen them and in my opinion makes the belt installation a ton easier and quicker. all of the 6 other techs i work with at audi do it this way too, never seen anyone leave em tight, in our opinion it just makes it easier to each his own thoe


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## vr6ninja (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (drtbmxer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drtbmxer* »_
your completely correct, having the locking bar on there, cam gears loose or not, the cams are in time, the reason for loosening the cam gears is simply to make the belt installation easier. 

I could see how it'd be easier, it took some careful planning and I had to put the belt straight on for it to work.
Well I finished the job, timmymk2 assuming your still reading this info. It took me two nights after work 6-11 to remove all the stuff a good portion of Saturday to clean most of it and do valve covers, and then Sunday I put it all back together.
Here's some photos, sorry there aren't more but you can see the before and after on here at least, when I took it apart I seriously thought the engine block was black.
















Unfortunately I didn't get a photo of it but I'd highly recommend the APR Snub Mount. It cleaned the slop that I've not cared for in this car. It's definitely more enjoyable and to me easier to handle the clutch, faster response timing (better feed back in my opinion).
Tips:
Definitely use the locking tools, and get a ratchet wrench for the crank shaft I must have spent 30-45 minutes with my adjustable wrench reversing the sides because I couldn't fit a socket in there.
When you take out the water pump make sure to put a bucket under the engine I thought a doggy paper training mat would do, I got proved wrong on that one.
What I would have done differently:
Also installed a new Accessory Tensioner, looks like the bearings are getting old in the roller part of mine which would explain the old belt being worn on the back side.








Paid closer attention to the height of the carrier, my hood doesn't latch as easily and is a little low, I'll be doing a readjustment of that some weekend.
Bought more break clean from the start, I went through 8-10 cans of the stuff.
I hope that helps timmymk2.


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## Massboykie (Aug 15, 2006)

*Re: (vr6ninja)*

Hey VR
Sweet! Thanks for the info and the pics. I bet my block looks just like that. I had the cam seals replaced under warantee, but they were leaking pretty bad so all that crap is probably still on there. No more burning oil smell for you!








I will I had a garage though. if it takes me this long the car would have to stay outside apart like that for the weekend. Probably not a problem, but what can I do.
Cheers
Massboykie


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## diabolical1 (Mar 26, 2005)

very good info. some good pics, too.

question: what's a Snub Mount?


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## vr6ninja (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (diabolical1)*

The snub mount is what helps prevent the engine from moving forward and backwards. The APR one helps take out the slop in the tranny. If you look at the dirty photo right below the alternator (bottom pully on the left) there's a rubber piece that ends up going into the front carrier, that's the factory one.


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## Massboykie (Aug 15, 2006)

*Re: (vr6ninja)*

Hey VR
I've had that snubmount in the shop for about 2 years now...







just haven't found the time to do it. Can you feel a bog difference with it in? Just wondering.
Cheers
Massboykie


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## GLS-S4 (Jun 6, 2005)

*Re: (drtbmxer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drtbmxer* »_your completely correct, having the locking bar on there, cam gears loose or not, the cams are in time, the reason for loosening the cam gears is simply to make the belt installation easier. if you can get it on with out any problems then there is no need to loosen the cam gears.....but it takes 2 secconds to loosen them and in my opinion makes the belt installation a ton easier and quicker.

Agreed.
With crank lock pin installed and cam lock bar on, everything is in time. A proper Cam lock bar will only go on 360 so you cannot be 180 out. Loosening the gears and installing new belt can also correct a previously incorrectly timed engine from a prior install when someone does it wrong.
One trick is to tap the gears with a punch on the inside edge and "ring it loose" from the tapered shaft.


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