# Check Engine Light - 72K Miles



## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

I had a check engine light come on yesterday. About 72k miles. I just recently finished a trip to Disneyland and put about 1800 miles on the van. Mileage wasn't real good, but it was bad winds there and back. Did well otherwise. I will check the code and report back. Seems to run fine. I do worry as the mileage gets higher about things like the transmission. Anyone have a check engine light and what was it for. I am wondering if there is a common problem. 

Thanks.


----------



## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

Checked the code using the key turn sequence (on, off, on, off, on). Code P0456 came up. Did some brief searching and it looks like it might be a gas cap. Makes sense. My son filled it and I noticed when I went to put fuel in the cap seemed a loose. I haven't disconnected the battery to reset. I am concerned that I would have thought it would reset itself. But maybe you have to have it cleared.


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

I had a gas cap code come up awhile back. My spouse didn't tighten down the cap when she last filled it up. Happy about that one.

Last week I got a P0562 code, which everyone seems to assume is an alternator problem. I think the code is for "charging system voltage condition. Low voltage" or some such language. I did some researching online, however, and on one of the Chryco forums (Dodge perhaps??) there are some dealership techs who participate quite a bit. They said not to be fooled and it's actually the battery. Lots more posts of incredulous customers who ran all the "traditional" trouble-shooting tests that naturally arrives at the conclusion of bad alternator (battery tests fine, etc.) and were in disbelief that it was only the battery. So I replaced the battery and so far so good.


----------



## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

I replaced my battery about a month ago. It went dead twice while the kids were sitting in the van watching a movie. Glad I did. Kind of surprised how fast these batteries go bad. My jetta went 8 years. The van only went 4.


----------



## routan2010se (Jun 17, 2013)

Check engine light is emission only issues, so unless a cat fell out, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

After X number of engine starts, and no recurrence of an error, just about all codes will clear by themselves.


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Funny, I got a 456 code over the weekend. The guy at the parts store (I know, I know) said it's gas cap 90% of the time and if it's not that then commonly the low pressure vacuum hose (??) has a leak. Also possible to be an emissions control sensor and the data isn't matching up with the other emission control sensor(s), but that tends to be with older vehicles. I guess multiple sensors and the data must match up or else it throws a code?? It was the gas cap last time, so I opened and closed it and tightened it down this time so we will see if it goes away over the course of the next few starts.


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Steveaut said:


> I replaced my battery about a month ago. It went dead twice while the kids were sitting in the van watching a movie. Glad I did. Kind of surprised how fast these batteries go bad. My jetta went 8 years. The van only went 4.


This is exactly what we did. Sat in the parking lot with older kid watching a movie waiting on mom and little brother. Dead. I think this is the battery killer, and seems to be lots of similar stories from the Dodge Forums or Chrysler Minivan forums. This is the 3rd battery for our van... the previous owner put an Advance battery in that had a date stamp of Dec. 2010, so the OEM didn't even make it 2 years.

FYI, many Interstate battery distributors sell "blemished" models for <$50 with core. You'll have to do some digging on their web-site to find the distributor in your area, but worth a call. Only come with 90 day warranty, but at that price you could buy 2 or 3 for less than the cost of retail one at Walmart or Costco (not to mention dealership or DieHard or Interstate retail prices). These are batteries that have sat on the shelf at mechanics' shops too long and Interstate collects them and refurbishes them to as good as new (better, actually), but they can't sell them as new. Not a bad deal if it works out.


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Zambee500 said:


> Funny, I got a 456 code over the weekend.


Not so funny after all. When it's not the gas cap, in can be the evaporator purge valve ("vapor canister purge solenoid"??). $230 for R&R at dealership rates. Got stuck with the dealership so getting charged book rate of 2 hours. I bet the part is $25 and the repair doesn't take a half hour of actual time, so it probably could be quite a bit less than that at independent shop. Will report back details when I get the Rout back tomorrow though. 82k and change on the odo now.

Symptom after the CEL was the van wouldn't re-start after it was run a half hour at operating temperature and engine shut off. Took a dozen tries to get it to restart. Couldn't maintain vacuum. One time before that it was real sluggish coming out of a red-light until i got to 3-5 mph, then it shot back to normal. Similar to when you try to drive with the the e-brake partially engaged and then release it (that wasn't what was going on though). So apparently there was a small leak in that valve and it couldn't maintain pressure to keep vacuum state.


----------



## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

Zambee500 said:


> Not so funny after all. When it's not the gas cap, in can be the evaporator purge valve ("vapor canister purge solenoid"??). $230 for R&R at dealership rates. Got stuck with the dealership so getting charged book rate of 2 hours. I bet the part is $25 and the repair doesn't take a half hour of actual time, so it probably could be quite a bit less than that at independent shop. Will report back details when I get the Rout back tomorrow though. 82k and change on the odo now.
> 
> Symptom after the CEL was the van wouldn't re-start after it was run a half hour at operating temperature and engine shut off. Took a dozen tries to get it to restart. Couldn't maintain vacuum. One time before that it was real sluggish coming out of a red-light until i got to 3-5 mph, then it shot back to normal. Similar to when you try to drive with the the e-brake partially engaged and then release it (that wasn't what was going on though). So apparently there was a small leak in that valve and it couldn't maintain pressure to keep vacuum state.


That's disappointing. It's tough knowing that the vehicle is approaching that time when it would have been nice to have equity to get a new car rather than spending more on repairs. Oh well. 

Regarding the battery, that makes more sense to me now. When I went to get a new battery at Sam's Club, they said I could only use an AGM battery, that was the only recommended battery. I wonder if Chrysler changed the requirement since the traditional batteries were going dead so fast. The AGM's cost quite a bit more. This is what I read about the benefits of AGM as well as disadvantages:


Advantages

Spill-proof through acid encapsulation in matting technology
High specific power, low internal resistance, responsive to load
Up to 5 times faster charge than with flooded technology
Better cycle life than with flooded systems
Water retention (oxygen and hydrogen combine to produce water)
Vibration resistance due to sandwich construction
Stands up well to cold temperature


Limitations

Higher manufacturing cost than flooded (but cheaper than gel)
Sensitive to overcharging (gel has tighter tolerances than AGM)
Capacity has gradual decline (gel has a performance dome)
Low specific energy
Must be stored in charged condition (less critical than flooded)
Not environmentally friendly (has less electrolyte, lead that flooded)


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

So the dealership cut me a break on labor and charged 1.5 hours to change the evap purge valve. Still, at $118/hour and $27 part it comes out to $200. Got a 'free' car wash and mult-point inspection out of it though. Lol. I do have a somewhat hard time believing it really took even 1.5 hours though, given there's a youtube clip for R&R on a 4th generation Chrysler T&C that only runs 8.5 minutes long. Also, unless it's a typo they also pulled a code for P4023 which is for "very small evap leak". The auto-parts store pulled a P0465 on sunday, but there's overlap in the descriptions so the ECU could have switched codes or stored multiple codes. Anyway, for posterity's sake the VW part number for the evaporative purge valve is 7B0-906-518.


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Uggh. Another P0456. The OBD2 scanner pulled 2 codes but they were the same P0456. Hoping it's the gas cap this time, but at least the evap purge valve should still be under warranty if that's the culprit. And of course less than a week before a 2500 mile roadtrip.


----------



## audiophiliac (May 22, 2004)

I just bought a 2009 SE with 81k on it. MIL is on intermittently, but on more than not. Dealer said it was for an o2 sensor and agreed to pay for replacing it at my local vw dealer. Still coordinating that (shaking head). Hopefully that is all it is. My wife has had it go nuts a few times now. Dash lights all light up, wipers turn on, then all goes normal after a few seconds. It has done it while driving and while parked. It could have been the faulty sliding door harness thatI just replaced. We will see. I am reading that it could also be drivers door harness or even the battery. The air filter looked like it had never been replaced. The oil was pretty used. But it runs well and is pretty dang clean considering you can tell it was used by a family with kids.

Overall, we are happy with it for what we paid. I will fix the small things as they come up. We plan to drive it while are kids are young.......It should last at least 7 or 8 years. It will probably be beat to death by then, but that is what minivans are for, right?


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

We've had some electrical gremlins. Nothing like what you're describing, but it does seem like when the ECU throws a check-engine light or other reminder (low tire pressure, oil change due, etc.), then it's the beginning of a series of things. After 1 is triggered and is addressed so that it goes back off, then immediately it's another. Rinse & repeat. That has happened a few times, but it's very intermittent.

Might want to check to see if your WIN unit is covered by the recall, especially if you recently purchased from a VW dealership. WIN is the "key" starting system. Wireless Ignition Node or something like that. Pesky electrical gremlin on some and were recalled for a replacement. Worth asking.

My P0456 CEL cleared on its own today. I tightened down the gas cap when it first went illuminated on Friday, and it stayed on another day or so. But noticed it was gone when I was driving around today.


----------



## audiophiliac (May 22, 2004)

I gave the VIN to my local VW dealer and he looked it up and said there were no open recall campaigns on it. I wish you could go to vw.com and enter your VIN to see what recall services and even TSBs had been performed, and when and where. I found a few service receipts behind the glove box from another UT VW dealer. One had mention of the need for new rear brakes at about 30k mi. no surprise there. One mentioned a slow leak in a lower A/C line. Not sure it ever got fixed or not. It blows cold, but I think it could be colder....but it might be normal for the caravan.  I am used to my MKIII GTI VR6 which will make my face numb in 105 degree summer heat, so I am somewhat spoiled in the A/C department. The dash light/wiper thing has not happened since I replaced the wiring harness in the power sliding door. Hopefully that was it. I know there was some wiring in there that was nearly broken and could have even shorted to something intermittently. Sometimes it would open but not close, sometimes it would close but not open, sometimes it would do neither. Works like a champ now.

I just need to get the MIL/CEL figured out, and I am good. I plan to flush the tranny fluid soon. I think I will flush the coolant system as well. Might as well replace the infamous heater hose fitting while I am in there before it starts to leak or break. Brakes look pretty new and they work fine so I think I am ok there. The tranny is sometimes clunky, and hunts for gears around 35-40....but I do not think it is out of ordinary. The 2-3 shift is a little wonky at certain speeds.

Front looks like it had a bit of a bender with something. Cover has been recently resprayed....not sure if the dealer I bought it from did it or not. But they did not sand anything. Feels like sandpaper. But it looks ok. It does not clip into the grill on the driver side. I think some of the clips are broken off. And the lower grill has a chunk missing. No damage on the rad. support, oil pan, or anything so I do not think it was anything more than a soccer mom rear ending someone in a parking lot or something.


----------



## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

There is a recall on the sliding doors. Not the wiring harness itself, but one of the sensors. Known issue about the doors reversing while closing...usually just before it's supposed to close, when you think it has, and you return to the parking lot to find you left the sliding door open the whole time.

After I bought our Routan (used) I had to return to the dealership to get the sliding door recall re-done under warranty. I asked if there were any other pending recalls and they said none. So I asked if there were any for my Passat (thinking I might get better treatment if they knew I had 2 VWs), and they looked it up by VIN and said none. I know that was not true b/c I had received a recall notice on the sunroof drains and I never had it done. So I am certain there was at least one outstanding recall and the dealership did not know it. Not sure what to tell you though in terms of finding out for sure, other than perhaps calling VWoA.

Speaking of, when I bought our Passat (used) I called VWoA and they sent me a summary of the maintenance history. It's not the actual maintenance records, but just a summary the dealership provides to national corporate. And obviously it does not (cannot) include any work performed at independent shops. But the summary does show what dealership performed the work. I called that dealership and they were happy to fax the entire record history to me. I actually learned a lot about my car that I would not have otherwise known. If you do this I would suggest offering up front and voluntarily to pay for it... they are more likely to comply with your request if they know you want it so bad that you'll pay for it, and of course they won't actually charge you for it. If the dealership objects due to privacy of previous owner, ask them to put masking tape over the name/address/phone number. If they don't mention privacy, and send you the records with the previous owner's details, call them up and ask if there are any extra keys, remote control, headphones, roof-rack cross-bars, etc. (Not serious..just kidding.)

Next time you're at the dealership for service, ask them if they will reset the transmission memory using the STAR (Chrysler) computer system. I have not done it, but others here have reported that the transmission will shift much smoother and better MPGs when it is "re-learning" your driving style.


----------

