# E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all.



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Hopefully this thread can be used to solve the E85 questions starting to pop up.
So going to go BT and slowly buying parts, well i moved abou 0.5 miles from an E85 station, we all seen what 02VW1.8t has down with some E85 on his 1.8 .:R. I figured **** why not see if i can run on straight E85. Over the past months and on and off talks with 02VW and some research i figured roughly 580s would be needed to run Straight E85. Well i am going to go BT anyway so i ordered 630s (Clay) to go with Uni (Adam) at a later date.
So other info, we all know about SAVwKO and his monster Ko3 Dyno that i followed as well, and Dan (GT-ER) and his input on various injectors and BT runs on chip software. So i learned to tune 380s @ 4bar to get my IDC down to 85% from 99% on a second gear pull w/ my setup. 
Now i want to get one last run on E85 before leaving the tiny snail for something made to flow that much air, regularly(Clay and the50trim, thanks) I wont do the run from <3k as fearing monster torque spike but so far lets get the car running perfect and some logs.
So far i have everything installed, and cleared all my tweaks, dropped in a 3bar, and cleared codes, she started right up in APRs 100 octane mode no questions. Straight E85.
This is where the gurus come in, I am thinking logging:
002, 010, 011, 020, 031, 101, 115. If you suggest a set of logs, suggest a combination like 002, 010.
I know [email protected]: Do both modes, log 031, 011, and 020 on both. Then do 002, 031, and 034. 
I will being going to the dyno shortly as well. Make suggestions and lets get this done and enough info to cover the E85 questions as well. BTW I do believe i am the first ko3 to run on 630s









Edit for Log Blocks / FAQ

*FAQ* 
*Where Can I find E85* 
http://www.e85refueling.com/
*What Is E85* 
This is what Wiki Says , In short, it is a mixture of Ethanol (Corn Alchohol) and Gas, concentration is roughly 85% E and 15% Gas
More Vital Information
*What AF ratio should i shoot for*
The following table shows the range of air fuel ratios typically used for burning gasoline, E85, and pure ethanol (E100) under an assortment of assumed operating conditions:








Remember to use Lambda, like our ECU, and not convert when logging w/ VAG
* The Risks!!!!*
Corrosion, Water Contamination, Air Fuel Problems, In sort, do it at your own risk, its your car bottom line, and there is no real support for this sort of thing.
*What Octane is E85* 
100 - 105, Think race fuel at the pump, but cheaper.
*What do i need to do to run E85* 
Well first off let it be known that E85 requires roughly 30% more fuel, with that being said STOCK INJECTORS WILL NOT BE ENOUGH FUEL. At a minimum for Straight E85, i have calculated a 580s @ 3bar and a fuel pump. I have ran a mix of 50/50 on 440s but the pump dies off in the upper RPMs.
*Swole, What is your gas Mileage Like* 
So far i have been averaging 17-19mpg, roughly 30% drop in fuel
*Software* 
There is no current software as of now, currently, the ones in the thread with me are the mother ****ing christopher columbus of E85 and the dub community, happy sailing. Rumor has it a said company is working on seeing what may or can be done. 
*Swole, what is your E85 Setup* 
Genesis 630s, 3bar, Walbro Inline, VR MAF Housing, 1.8T MAF Sensor; rest are just go fast bits.
*So i have 630s and a pump, i need to go on a trip, can i run regular gas* 
Highly doubtful if the car will even start, the ecu can only adapt +- 25%. So even if you pull 25% via LW / Custom Code, i still dont think you will pull enough fuel to not piss off the ecu. Put in some smaller injectors.
*What are your Fuel Trims Like (Block 032)* 
Idle..........Running
0.4% and -10.0%
*Wow All this for a K03, why bother* 
if we all had this attitude, then we would all be sheep like the MKIV Jetta /GTI Forums. I did it to be different, beat SAVwKOs dyno, and to answer some questions since E85 topics are coming up more frequently
*Okay OKay what about us BT folks* 
Bigger injectors and even bigger pump(s)







More fuel baby more fuel
*Comparison Articles I found*
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/....html
*Swole wheres the dyno? *








*Petition for Software thread*
01. theswoleguy
02. gdoggmoney Rant







http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...27792
03. BlueSleeper
04. 20aeman
05. hypothetical
06.
07.
08.
09.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

_Modified by theswoleguy at 10:02 AM 7-25-2008_


_Modified by theswoleguy at 12:01 PM 7-25-2008_


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## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*








ballin!


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*

Let me know when you're going to dyno. PM sent also. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Golfmk3_18 (Sep 22, 2004)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. ([email protected])*

you sir are my E-Hero








:watched topics:


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## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*

Might as well add 115 in there as well.
And I can't remember what the offset is, but don't you have to take the values from 031 and fiddle with em to get your "true" AFR since E85 will give you a different value?


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## 20V BUG (Jan 15, 2008)

Oh I can't wait to see how this turns out.
<Watched Topic>


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

Still rocking the VR maf or did you move on to the S4?


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## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_Might as well add 115 in there as well.
And I can't remember what the offset is, but don't you have to take the values from 031 and fiddle with em to get your "true" AFR since E85 will give you a different value?

lamda is lamda.. Just pretend its still 93 octane in there and read the a/f ratios as you would gas.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (Golfmk3_18)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Golfmk3_18* »_you sir are my E-Hero







:watched topics:

lol thanks, figure since i am close and going BT might as well answer a question that comes up more and more, for the record, E85 requires 30% more fuel.

_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_Might as well add 115 in there as well.
And I can't remember what the offset is, but don't you have to take the values from 031 and fiddle with em to get your "true" AFR since E85 will give you a different value?
 
Added Block 115 to the list of logs I have a diode though so might not show much Mike 17psi lol

_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_Still rocking the VR maf or did you move on to the S4?

VR Maf, she started up like a champ, doubt i could run anything other then E85 though on this setup.

_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_
lamda is lamda.. Just pretend its still 93 octane in there and read the a/f ratios as you would gas.

Correct just read the lamda values


_Modified by theswoleguy at 10:35 PM 6-1-2008_


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Logging will commence tomorrow 6/2/2008, today was spent monitoring everything and so forth. Running in APR 100 and right now current block 032 is reading as follows:
Idle..........Running
0.2% and -8.6%
btw i did watch timing on one run today, all the way to redline and 0* timing correction. I guess thats good lol


_Modified by theswoleguy at 10:29 PM 6-1-2008_


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

can't wait to see the results http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## thom337 (Oct 13, 2007)

Surprised more people haven't been doing this. It should yield about 1.14 times the power of 93 octane + extra special bonus HP points with the 105 octane and a more efficient burn. I would expect a car that makes around 220 HP on 93 to make around 250-260 on E85 if properly dialed in.


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

Do you think 415s + 4 bar would cut it for 100 percent E85 on a ko3s?


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

bump for updates. I wanna do this, and your the beacon of light


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

now in order to go BT on e85 you would have to do say 1000cc injectors on a gt2871r or a gt3071r? Also what is does block 32 show you?. also running this and meth wouldn't be harmful right?


_Modified by Nitro7853 at 3:50 PM 6-2-2008_


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## Andrew 16v (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*

wow this is great man. Good luck can't waitto see your progress. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_now in order to go BT on e85 you would have to do say 1000cc injectors on a gt2871r or a gt3071r? Also what is does block 32 show you?. also running this and meth wouldn't be harmful right?

_Modified by Nitro7853 at 3:50 PM 6-2-2008_

You'd need a little over 30 percent more fuel....so for bolt ons, you'd probably want 440s, for t3s60/28rs 550-630, for T3 housing turbos and above....lots more fuel...


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
You'd need a little over 30 percent more fuel....so for bolt ons, you'd probably want 440s, for t3s60/28rs 550-630, for T3 housing turbos and above....lots more fuel...


 I understand that from the initial post but how to figure that out with a turbo like the gt3071r its gotta be around that. Also hes running on the ko3s as of right now with the 630's on 100oct program with aparently no tweeking.


_Modified by Nitro7853 at 5:50 PM 6-2-2008_


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thom337* »_Surprised more people haven't been doing this. It should yield about 1.14 times the power of 93 octane + extra special bonus HP points with the 105 octane and a more efficient burn. I would expect a car that makes around 220 HP on 93 to make around 250-260 on E85 if properly dialed in.

true but its a gas mileage thing for a lot of people

_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_Do you think 415s + 4 bar would cut it for 100 percent E85 on a ko3s? 
 maybe depends on your mods, i could get away with half and half on 380s @ bar but i did run a lil lean up top, so that might work but better get a pump

_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_bump for updates. I wanna do this, and your the beacon of light








 lol thanks 

_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_now in order to go BT on e85 you would have to do say 1000cc injectors on a gt2871r or a gt3071r? Also what is does block 32 show you?. also running this and meth wouldn't be harmful right?
its quite possible and a monster pump, just look around for honda dynos on E85, some monster injectors 1600 cc or 8 injectors. 032 is showing the running fuel adaption for the ecu, at idle and running, to far negative is rich, to far positive is lean, the ecu can only adapt +- 25% but anywhere in the upper teens and varying difference the ecu will cel

_Modified by Nitro7853 at 3:50 PM 6-2-2008_


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
You'd need a little over 30 percent more fuel....so for bolt ons, you'd probably want 440s, for t3s60/28rs 550-630, for T3 housing turbos and above....lots more fuel...


depends on your definition of boltons, i technically have only bolt ons

_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_ I understand that from the initial post but how to figure that out with a turbo like the gt3071r its gotta be around that. Also hes running on the ko3s as of right now with the 630's on 100oct program with aparently no tweeking.


run a log of your current injector duty cycle, then add roughly 30-35% but i would do that from an 80% duty cycle so you still keep that cushion of no more thne 80% cycle. So say you are running 85% duty cycle on 630s you should add 35% more fuel to get down to around 80% but it also varies on what boost you run on race bc then DC changes. So i guess its best to find DC on Race gas first. then add roughly 30%.
630s at 30% become 819s btw. 
Going to gym, all hwy, was waiting for it to clear to do the runs. most will either be done from 2nd possible third. Depends on how it looks. For the anti speed people, i live in atlanta, hwy speeds are 85+ at times.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

ok got some logs, got to remember how to create the charts. Good news, 0* timing pull all runs, 100 octane mode, no WMI. 30 - 33* BTDC average.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

First log will upload the rest tomorrow, if anyone wants the hard data, list emails. Runs are done in second gear down on ramps, cops out bad tonight.
Blocks: 002, 020, 031 Lambda on second axis to right. IDC is 73% if i did the math right, 02vw1.8t correct me if i am wrong. MS*RPM/ 1200








Log 003, 031, 020








Log 011, 031, 020








The one Third gear i got










_Modified by theswoleguy at 11:08 AM 6-3-2008_


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

Any logs with BTDC, preferably 3rd gear? Also, given those MAF readings, your on a 3" housing?
Interesting how rich you go in the upper RPM range. That was the same problem I was having trying to run 380'[email protected] and a 3" MAF housing on revo stg2. I could never get it to run right.
nonetheless, your previously-posted BTDC Avg. and CF's are very very impressive. More logs now!!!!!!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

screw all the logging, just throw it on the dyno








then hit the track


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_screw all the logging, just throw it on the dyno








then hit the track
















indeed at least a dyno, trying to talk thomas into another dyno day







. The clutch is not liking low pulls though so i think if we dyno to tweak i might need to start higher up in the band to avoid the monster torque.


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## thom337 (Oct 13, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
true but its a gas mileage thing for a lot of people


but its cheap cheap cheap. usually $1 - $1.50 cheaper than gas. although I guess frequent fillups may be a deterrent to some people.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (thom337)*






















Jesus H christ, your timing looks amazing! Def don't look like something you see out of a 1.8T. How does it feel? Like a raped ape?


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*

Need more definitive logs. Vortex, collectively urge Josh to find some deserted road where he won't get a ticket and he can do a 3rd or 4th gear log.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I can olny hope my BTDC curve will look as sexy as those above. When's my damn uni tuned ecu coming, Adam


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thom337* »_
but its cheap cheap cheap. usually $1 - $1.50 cheaper than gas. although I guess frequent fillups may be a deterrent to some people.

well heres an idea 150 miles and half a tank so far lol

_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_





















Jesus H christ, your timing looks amazing! Def don't look like something you see out of a 1.8T. How does it feel? Like a raped ape?

its quick, the clutch is not liking the torque spikes the next set of logs if done in third will be from 3k - 3500 to avoid such a harsh trq spike
all logs uploaded, adam has prettier logs, indeed the last one i posted is a third gear.
Block 032 is at 0.4% and -9.4% I have calculated a duty cycle of 73%


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

**** 73 percent with 630s and a ko3? Thats nuts...doesn't give you much leeway for BT, but then again, your running extreme amounts of boost....
You'd have enough injector for a conservative boost 28r or super60 me thinks before moving up with the injectors...


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_**** 73 percent with 630s and a ko3? Thats nuts...doesn't give you much leeway for BT, but then again, your running extreme amounts of boost....
You'd have enough injector for a conservative boost 28r or super60 me thinks before moving up with the injectors...

indeed but i have a 4bar which takes it up to 730s lol. I am going t3/t4 50 trim .63


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

adam Id look into creating a file for this kinda setup


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_adam Id look into creating a file for this kinda setup









We're talking, we're talking.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
We're talking, we're talking.









interesting lol


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

give me a day or so for some more logs, maybe if i can get this Innovative OT1 to work they will be better, laptop crashed yesterday so trying to get stuff back.


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## IAmTheNacho (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*

I want E85 Arizona sucks


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*

I live near two e85 stations.
I'm riveted. I could do this easily, good work here.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_I live near two e85 stations.
I'm riveted. I could do this easily, good work here.

man she loves this **** seriously. I need to start advancing timing


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*

anyone know max timing possible on stock cams? i know pete blew a spark plug into oblivion with like 25* on E85 and a GT35R


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_anyone know max timing possible on stock cams? 

We stop at 28* on stock cams, you're already past that but don't have enough cyl. pressure to start having pumping losses. Therefore....

_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_I need to start advancing timing









No.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
We stop at 28* on stock cams, you're already past that but don't have enough cyl. pressure to start having pumping losses. Therefore....
No. 

so dont do anything and just dyno or what adam?


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
so dont do anything and just dyno or what adam?

Correct. Going to DurtyFest?


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

was going to but might not now, other stuff to do. are you going as adam or unitronics. what happens if timing is added, no room for advancement basically?


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_was going to but might not now, other stuff to do. are you going as adam or unitronics. what happens if timing is added, no room for advancement basically?

Pumping losses. There is a limit you know? lol


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Pumping losses. There is a limit you know? lol 

no not really what are pumping losses?


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

All you need to know is you'll lose power. lol You can't just infinitely increase timing. Eventually you'd be firing before the piston started coming up the compression stroke. lol


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

30psi and i had ~14,5-15ms out of 16ms with 1100cc
GT3076 540Whp 0* knock and this timing WOT








1.8T with GT42 and the sky is the limit http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
BTW as soon as you even see 3* knock you must lower boost or timing.
E85 do not knock like normal race fuel.
The first pressure spike will bend pauter like if the were nissan micra rods


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_30psi and i had ~14,5-15ms out of 16ms with 1100cc
GT3076 540Whp 0* knock and this timing WOT








1.8T with GT42 and the sky is the limit http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
BTW as soon as you even see 3* knock you must lower boost or timing.
E85 do not knock like normal race fuel.
The first pressure spike will bend pauter like if the were nissan micra rods










really when it knock is it like some crazy violent explosion? pardon my seemingly dumb questions but if i dont know i will ask plus theres others that might not, maybe we can use this as a answer most ? for E85 since the questions are coming more frequently


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

I'm gonna guess and say that the pressure at which E85 begins to knock for some given combustion temperature is much much higher than that of regualr 93. With that being said, any indication of pinging with E85 means your combustion chamber pressure is high enough to break something, maybe? Again, all guesses here


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_I'm gonna guess and say that the pressure at which E85 begins to knock for some given combustion temperature is much much higher than that of regualr 93. With that being said, any indication of pinging with E85 means your combustion chamber pressure is high enough to break something, maybe? Again, all guesses here

Yes , it doesent act like normal VP CSP or similar that start to ping and then pull of some timing .
Its more voilent and will propably not even be as consistent with the knocking so that you might go from 0* to 25* to much in split second.
Most tuner here do not have the car on rolling road when tuning .
They add it to the bench and use old style copper pipe etc to listen to the combustion.

BUT i consider it the best fuel.
I can use 620HP+ daily ...all day every day ... on all pump here were i live







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

swoleguy, could you post up your "base map" lemmitweaks for the 630s, 3inch maf and e85?


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## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*

We have one e85 station in miami. Looks like i'll be buying it by the drum.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_swoleguy, could you post up your "base map" lemmitweaks for the 630s, 3inch maf and e85? 


yea thats simple, nothings tweaked lol, i have idle advanced 60 rpms to combat the motor mounts and fuel on warm up at 115% bc she was a lil stumbly on start up, now shes on point. Literally i put in the 630s, fuel pump, got in the car cleared ecu, TBA, and erased my old tweaks. Tank was filled full of E85 right before i came home. 
Turned the key on checked for leaks, had a small one at the rail, fixed it let the pumps prime, waited no leaks, turned her over. Thats it dude. No tweaking really, if the fuel trims drift much more rich i will pull some just to keep it under -10%


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

I drove to macon yesterday, round trip right at 100 miles, so i will let everyone have a general idea of MPG. Right now city driving i am figuring a whopping.... SIT down... city: 17mpg lol


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

What are you guys paying for this E85? 
Race gas here in ct is $8.50 to 9.00 a gallon
93 Oct is $4.35 a gallon so even at 17 MPG the E-85 may be the way to go for high octane. 
Dont forget to keep en eye on egt's
And Adams right about the pumping losses and MBT - Better to find max timing on a dyno rather than by ping especially on race fuel. You can add 12+ degrees with out knock on good race fuel, but you may not make more power over + 8 from the base map. Extra timing cost power and is added risk you don't need.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_What are you guys paying for this E85? 
Race gas here in ct is $8.50 to 9.00 a gallon
93 Oct is $4.35 a gallon so even at 17 MPG the E-85 may be the way to go for high octane. 
Dont forget to keep en eye on egt's
And Adams right about the pumping losses and MBT - Better to find max timing on a dyno rather than by ping especially on race fuel. You can add 12+ degrees with out knock on good race fuel, but you may not make more power over + 8 from the base map. Extra timing cost power and is added risk you don't need. 


$3.59 here for E85, 93 is $4.39, race gas up the street is 9 i think, it was 7.999 back in november so it might be 10+. 
I am already running on APRs 100 so i probably wont add 12* over base lol unless i go back to 93 tune. What should exhaust gas temps be on this stuff or just shoot for normal EGTs and if you pass then its really bad. What temps should i look for unsure either way. So i guess the logs are done and only thing left to do is strap her down on the rollers and start logging with some tuning.


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## BlakPurl (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

Most interesting thread i've read in a long time.








As far as your mpg goes, are you stomping on it or is that just normal driving. I'm a little confused about the fueling requirements (ie larger injectors) etc. that are necessary to run e85 but it sounds like an awesome way to make big power on the street with more timing and boost


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (BlakPurl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlakPurl* »_Most interesting thread i've read in a long time.








As far as your mpg goes, are you stomping on it or is that just normal driving. I'm a little confused about the fueling requirements (ie larger injectors) etc. that are necessary to run e85 but it sounds like an awesome way to make big power on the street with more timing and boost

E85 requires 30% more fuel as i stated in the OP, so thus you need larger injectors. It just has a third less caloric energy as regular fuel, same reason gas mileage drops in the winter bc they add ethanol.
This tank will be a more accurate reading on fuel. It will have a mix of city and hwy driving. I will go till the light comes on and then base my mileage off distance and the amount to refuel. The other tank did have about 45 minutes of us trying to get the Innovative OT1 logger to work and was based off a 105 miles traveled and 5.xx to fill it back all the way up. So give me a few days till refill for a more accurate reading on MPG


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
yea thats simple, nothings tweaked lol, i have idle advanced 60 rpms to combat the motor mounts and fuel on warm up at 115% bc she was a lil stumbly on start up, now shes on point. Literally i put in the 630s, fuel pump, got in the car cleared ecu, TBA, and erased my old tweaks. Tank was filled full of E85 right before i came home. 
Turned the key on checked for leaks, had a small one at the rail, fixed it let the pumps prime, waited no leaks, turned her over. Thats it dude. No tweaking really, if the fuel trims drift much more rich i will pull some just to keep it under -10%

Awesome, I'm gonna be following you very soon. Injectors and pump are coming soon for bt, so might as well run e85 for peace of mind (stock block).
Quick question: Did you still retard timing to account for the VR maf? or are you running apr 100 octane + the 6-7 degrees from the larger maf?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
E85 requires 30% more fuel as i stated in the OP, so thus you need larger injectors. It just has a third less caloric energy as regular fuel, same reason gas mileage drops in the winter bc they add ethanol.
This tank will be a more accurate reading on fuel. It will have a mix of city and hwy driving. I will go till the light comes on and then base my mileage off distance and the amount to refuel. The other tank did have about 45 minutes of us trying to get the Innovative OT1 logger to work and was based off a 105 miles traveled and 5.xx to fill it back all the way up. So give me a few days till refill for a more accurate reading on MPG

But nice thing is that you can leave the lambda 1 area and run ~1,1+ etc to get better mpg http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
E85 compared In AFR values for normal gas i run 18.0:1 - 19.0:1








But of course 11.5-12.5 at WOT


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
But nice thing is that you can leave the lambda 1 area and run ~1,1+ etc to get better mpg http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
E85 compared In AFR values for normal gas i run 18.0:1 - 19.0:1








But of course 11.5-12.5 at WOT 


You have SEM foffa? We're stuck with generic flashes...


----------



## 20V BUG (Jan 15, 2008)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_

You have SEM foffa? We're stuck with generic flashes...









Hopefully we can talk Uni into making an E85 program by the time they actually start selling E85 around where I live.








(wink wink nudge nudge)


----------



## demon69 (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*

so what do i have to do if i want to run E85 in a stock 1.8L. the only things i have done is a K&N drop in and freed up the exhaust for now.. daily drive. thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (demon69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *demon69* »_so what do i have to do if i want to run E85 in a stock 1.8L. the only things i have done is a K&N drop in and freed up the exhaust for now.. daily drive. thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

get 35% larger injectors and its ready to go.
Plug and play.
call USRT


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (20V BUG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V BUG* »_
Hopefully we can talk Uni into making an E85 program by the time they actually start selling E85 around where I live.








(wink wink nudge nudge)

I'm talking to the higher ups, wink acknowledged and nudge returned.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
Awesome, I'm gonna be following you very soon. Injectors and pump are coming soon for bt, so might as well run e85 for peace of mind (stock block).
Quick question: Did you still retard timing to account for the VR maf? or are you running apr 100 octane + the 6-7 degrees from the larger maf?

i am still on the minus 4.0* for the VR Maf i am confident that i could take it to 0 * but thats is 100 octane file + 5* lol, thats one of those things when i can get to the dyno we will check on for sure. Hopefully adam can do some convincing i have tried so hopefully he has better luck, with the interest here and the logs shown.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (demon69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *demon69* »_so what do i have to do if i want to run E85 in a stock 1.8L. the only things i have done is a K&N drop in and freed up the exhaust for now.. daily drive. thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_ get 35% larger injectors and its ready to go.
Plug and play. call USRT

pretty much, and you might need a pump. I mean it depends on how far you will go with bolt-ons. technically nothing in my sig is more then bolt ons to extreme with cranked WG. You see i required pretty much 630s. You can run a mix though on 380s @ 4bar.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
Awesome, I'm gonna be following you very soon. Injectors and pump are coming soon for bt, so might as well run e85 for peace of mind (stock block).

lol no piece of mind, you will want to start adding timing and more boost. Better to be running 93 out of fear. With that being said i am a hypocrite and will run my t3/t4 50 trim .63 on E85







stock rods for now. lower boost but good amounts of timing lol








until adam stays up here long enough to help me do IE rods, then a new pump, and 870s (maybe 4bar) and straight E85 and MAD boost / timing


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

I'll be in town in 2 hours. 3lm ready when you are.







. (posting from 80 mph on I-85)


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I'll be in town in 2 hours. 3lm ready when you are.







. (posting from 80 mph on I-85)








 crazy ass


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

I just filled up with a 75%e85 and 25%93oct yesterday and the car is pretty insane.
Plus I am running W/M.
On a k04-001 with GIAC and 380's at 3 bar.
I need to put my 4 bar back in.


_Modified by BluishGreen1.8T at 8:56 PM 6-7-2008_


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (BluishGreen1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluishGreen1.8T* »_I just filled up with a 75%e85 and 25%93oct yesterday and the car is pretty insane.
Plus I am running W/M.

what injectors? start logging at 75/25 mix i would lean out up top on 380s @ 4bar. Plus if you havent cleared the ECU you better, one your fuel trims wander, THEY WILL, you will get a cel and possible limp. Ask me how i know lol


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

My CEL is always on from SAI removed and no cat.
my car used to feel like it would die off up top but now it feels like it pulls stronger longer.
I saw in the first post that 580's would be a good investment!!


_Modified by BluishGreen1.8T at 9:00 PM 6-7-2008_


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I am going to explore and see if the local chevron that is supposed to have e85 is still open here in Laurel.
If not I should be able to get it in annapolis, or get drums somewhere








I am going to order a walbro 255 inline today. 
Wait a while to size out some injectors.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

Just filled up, mix of both hwy and city, heavy AC use here in GA and its already blistering dry heat 90*+.
12.23 Gals 237.5 miles, had about a 1/4 tank according to the gauge left.
19.419 mpg.
That is funny enough 30% less then my old average
370 miles (light) 13.5 gal = 27.407 mpg
minus 30% (8.2222222) = 19.185


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

If I drive hard , I get 20mpg avg and I don't even run e85


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_If I drive hard , I get 20mpg avg and I don't even run e85








 Lol when i drive hard now its worse, i was giving the average after last week when i wasnt foot down logging,
BTW a working FAQ Added to OP


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_Just filled up, mix of both hwy and city, heavy AC use here in GA and its already blistering dry heat 90*+.
12.23 Gals 237.5 miles, had about a 1/4 tank according to the gauge left.
19.419 mpg.
That is funny enough 30% less then my old average
370 miles (light) 13.5 gal = 27.407 mpg
minus 30% (8.2222222) = 19.185 










Excellent. That's not bad, I mean I really don't care about mileage much considering it will equal out and it's 105 octane or so.
I did my exploring, and found out the local E85 station is out of the gas business for the next month while they are waiting on legal paperwork and etc. 
They still have the E85 signs all over directing you there, and the pump is there but they are not selling gas.









Next closest spot is about 10-15 miles from my place, and then I think there are another 4-5 pumps statewide.
Most of them are private however, and or government only.
Looks like I will not be doing this for a while. I am going to bitch out until this place minutes from my job is back selling it regularly. 
Then I can just top off/fill up every other day.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

Josh, unplug your SAI or the 100 relay to disable adaptation.







When are we dynoing it? We can do 630's or my 870's.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Josh, unplug your SAI or the 100 relay to disable adaptation.









why?

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_When are we dynoing it? We can do 630's or my 870's.









when do you want? i have class mon-thurs but could do it on a wed or friday if its mornings. Got to see what thomas (G60Nut) will charge me to run it on the dyno for an hour or so


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
why?
when do you want? i have class mon-thurs but could do it on a wed or friday if its mornings. Got to see what thomas (G60Nut) will charge me to run it on the dyno for an hour or so

Why? You said this....

_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_Plus if you havent cleared the ECU you better, one your lol

As for the dyno, you're in Marietta, why don't we just go over to Dynolab? With the cost of gas, the money you save on the cost of dynoing won't matter.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Why? You said this....

As for the dyno, you're in Marietta, why don't we just go over to Dynolab? With the cost of gas, the money you save on the cost of dynoing won't matter.









good point i guess, do you know them well or something. Do you want me to disable adaption on my car? what will that fix.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
good point i guess, do you know them well or something. Do you want me to disable adaption on my car? what will that fix.

Yeah, Arthur at Dynolab has always done the VW dyno days before for the locals. You said the fuel trims wandered and threw a CEL and limp, well disabling adaptation will stop the fuel trims dead at 0. lol


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Yeah, Arthur at Dynolab has always done the VW dyno days before for the locals. You said the fuel trims wandered and threw a CEL and limp, well disabling adaptation will stop the fuel trims dead at 0. lol 

naw no cel here lol. well i have to find out where dynolabs is and since you are cool with him i will drop your name as well.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
naw no cel here lol. well i have to find out where dynolabs is and since you are cool with him i will drop your name as well.

http://dynolab.net/ 
My name won't get you any discount.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

idk dude, they charge 50 just for the dyno, no tuning when G60Nuts shop charge $25 and cool set of dudes


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_idk dude, they charge 50 just for the dyno, no tuning when G60Nuts shop charge $25 and cool set of dudes
 
By no tuning, he means you don't get 3 hours to tune SEM for a basemap. lol You can Lemmi and log your heart out. $50 is very reasonable, and I trust Arthur as I've been there many times as well as others I know (not just VW's). Not saying anything against Thomas, this is just a lot closer to where you live. It's hot and traffic sucks and gas is expensive, even E85. lol If you want to wait til later this week I'll dyno with you.







Thurs. night maybe?


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_ 
By no tuning, he means you don't get 3 hours to tune SEM for a basemap. lol You can Lemmi and log your heart out. $50 is very reasonable, and I trust Arthur as I've been there many times as well as others I know (not just VW's). Not saying anything against Thomas, this is just a lot closer to where you live. It's hot and traffic sucks and gas is expensive, even E85. lol If you want to wait til later this week I'll dyno with you.







Thurs. night maybe? 

cant thursday, have class from 930-450, one ****ing class lol


_Modified by theswoleguy at 3:50 PM 6-9-2008_


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
cant thursday, have class from 930-450, one ****ing class lol

SKIP!! you wont


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_
SKIP!! you wont









dont have to dyno is from 5-11 lol


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

aight just checkin...
i might have to change my record to, highest hp ko3s on *gasoline*


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_aight just checkin...
i might have to change my record to, highest hp ko3s on *gasoline*
















bah if its sold from a pump its gas lol, race gas, water meth / e85 same fuel lol







unless you run AV gas lol


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

you both should be happy, i could take you both down if i made an effort


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_you both should be happy, i could take you both down if i made an effort









you 2.0 litre cheater lol. I still make more power and tq then you currently though so, step up princess







you are going BT and a built bottom end anyway lol


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
you 2.0 litre cheater lol. I still make more power and tq then you currently though so, step up princess







you are going BT and a built bottom end anyway lol

Yeah but i have stock: injectors, catback, and intake. Plus mine is tuned on a diode with no chip and was also done on 93 from sept








I dont plan on increasing the injectors until BT time so im pretty much stuck where i am boost wise and since there isnt any E85 dealers in FL where im moving i cant do what you are. Im sure i could squeek out 220whp and 320wtq with a good intake and 3" turboback, that is if stock injectors @4bar can handle the DC


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_aight just checkin...
i might have to change my record to, highest hp ko3s on *gasoline*
















I'm with that definitly get this thing on the dyno on stock turbo then lets see the e85 50trim beast


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

Quick question, as it would take some time to track down my buddy with a vagcom...
Can GIACs "stock" map be lemmitweaked?


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*

all chips can be used with unisettings/lemmi, even stock ecus


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_all chips can be used with unisettings/lemmi, even stock ecus

But can I have different settings for stock and pump as far as unisettings goes, or is it across the board changes involving all files, (stock, pump, race)


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
But can I have different settings for stock and pump as far as unisettings goes, or is it across the board changes involving all files, (stock, pump, race)

You can save "settings" to reload when you change things by loading in the whole group of channels modified.


----------



## Hestman1.8T (Mar 26, 2008)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

I would love to switch to E85 because there is a station that sells it like a mile from my house.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (Hestman1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_You can save "settings" to reload when you change things by loading in the whole group of channels modified. 

yea x2, btw CALL JOSH lol 

_Quote, originally posted by *Hestman1.8T* »_I would love to switch to E85 because there is a station that sells it like a mile from my house. 

well thats what this thread is for


----------



## Hestman1.8T (Mar 26, 2008)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

Adam do you think you will switch to E85? it seems to me you can make more power on it thats what im understanding. So ill just need bigger injectors, a different FPR, fuel pump, and the SW to run it? thats big fat opera titties right there


_Modified by Hestman1.8T at 8:25 PM 6-9-2008_


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (Hestman1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hestman1.8T* »_Adam do you think you will switch to E85? it seems to me you can make more power on it thats what im understanding. So ill just need bigger injectors, a different FPR, fuel pump, and the SW to run it? thats big fat opera titties right there


doubt adam will go for E85, you are start talking monster injectors, an aeromotive pump or two. With that being said i dont think adam would mind running a splash or two of E85 if he has the injector room, 
Look around for Honda dynos, yea they can make big big crazy ass power, problem is they run 4x 1600 cc injectors or 8 injectors and two big ass pumps. On ME7, theres a limit on how far you could probably go with E85 before going stand alone, or fancying resistor boxes and big ass injectors, do i believe it could be done, YES, look at whats done on ME7 that was just a wish within the past two-three years.
I mean look, i am on 630s, and a ko3 and running 73% duty cycle, adams turbo swallows mine and hes on 630s, now do the math on what he might need to run E85, he would have to try 925s at the least to have that fuel cushion of duty cycle. Thats a 47% increase in fuel over 630s, as i am sure his duty cycle isnt that low.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
I mean look, i am on 630s, and a ko3 and running 73% duty cycle, adams turbo swallows mine and hes on 630s, now do the math on what he might need to run E85, he would have to try 925s at the least to have that fuel cushion of duty cycle. Thats a 47% increase in fuel over 630s, as i am sure his duty cycle isnt that low.

No, I'm on 870's, but 630's at 4 bar on gas will push the 30R past 500whp. Either way, I don't need E85 (right now).


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
doubt adam will go for E85, you are start talking monster injectors, an aeromotive pump or two. With that being said i dont think adam would mind running a splash or two of E85 if he has the injector room, 
Look around for Honda dynos, yea they can make big big crazy ass power, problem is they run 4x 1600 cc injectors or 8 injectors and two big ass pumps. On ME7, theres a limit on how far you could probably go with E85 before going stand alone, or fancying resistor boxes and big ass injectors, do i believe it could be done, YES, look at whats done on ME7 that was just a wish within the past two-three years.
I mean look, i am on 630s, and a ko3 and running 73% duty cycle, adams turbo swallows mine and hes on 630s, now do the math on what he might need to run E85, he would have to try 925s at the least to have that fuel cushion of duty cycle. Thats a 47% increase in fuel over 630s, as i am sure his duty cycle isnt that low.

Yeah. I'd personally take a steam cleaner and throw it in the trunk. Fill the tank up with E85 and run a garden hose into the fuel rail.








Swoleguy, quick question. As far as the lambda values being different for E85...instead of having your fuel trims at 0 or close to zero...you have to purposely have them off? As in -10 instead of 0 so the lambda values are correct for ethanol? or am i mistaken somewhere?


----------



## bzflag (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
No, I'm on 870's, but 630's at 4 bar on gas will push the 30R past 500whp. Either way, I don't need E85 (right now).









Uh, wheres the closest station to us? Fayetteville, Eff that.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
Yeah. I'd personally take a steam cleaner and throw it in the trunk. Fill the tank up with E85 and run a garden hose into the fuel rail.








Swoleguy, quick question. As far as the lambda values being different for E85...instead of having your fuel trims at 0 or close to zero...you have to purposely have them off? As in -10 instead of 0 so the lambda values are correct for ethanol? or am i mistaken somewhere? 

naw they are just off a little, i bet yours for your car are a lil off as well. It will drift depending on fuel and what not. Some stations water fuel down more then others and what not. I could tweak them to be right around zero but i want to see what the 630s straight will do/look like before i adjust everything. On my 380s @ 4bar i had it adjusted within +- 3%, the ecu is most accurate between +- 10% i am noticing.


----------



## wizbang23 (Jun 12, 2008)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*

Hey how's it going...I noticed this thread and thought I'd throw in my two cents. I'm currently running straight E85 also, but i was wondering where your injector figures came from? my car is a 2003 Audi a4 1.8T (AMB Engine). Stock injectors (BOSCH p/n 0280156065) for the 2003 model year are 282cc @ 3BAR. so, when i decided to run E85 i added a 45% margin to the stock injector flow rate to get the new flow rate of 408.9cc. As of this moment my setup is as follows....APR 93/100, APR 2.5" Sport Exhaust, OEM A4 MAF, Forge 007 DV, and Genesis High Impedance 415cc Injectors, Custom Pulse Width Modulator Inline between ECU and Injector Harness (adding 30% duty cycle to injector pulsing)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E85 requires 39% more fuel to reach stoich even if that is not what you may come up with when doing calculations based on the table below. This is because the injector flow is slightly different when using E85 among many other things such as specific gravities, ect.
Fuel ........................ AFRst ........ FARst ....... Equivalence Ratio ... Lambda
Gas stoich ................ 14.7 .......... 0.068 ................ 1 ................... 1
Gas max power rich .... 12.5 .......... 0.08 ................. 1.176 .............. 0.8503
Gas max power lean .... 13.23 ........ 0.0755 .............. 1.111 ............. 0.900
E85 stoich .................. 9.765 ....... 0.10235 ............ 1 ................... 1
E85 max power rich ...... 6.975 ....... 0.1434 .............. 1.40 ............... 0.7143
E85 max power lean ..... 8.4687 ...... 0.118 ............... 1.153 .............. 0.8673
E100 stoich ................ 9.0078 ...... 0.111 ............... 1 .................... 1
E100 max power rich .... 6.429 ........ 0.155 .............. 1.4 .................. 0.714
E100 max power lean .... 7.8 .... ...... 0.128 .............. 1.15 ................ 0.870
The term AFRst refers to the Air Fuel Ratio under stoichiometric, or ideal air fuel ratio mixture conditions. FARst refers to the Fuel Air Ratio under stoichiometric conditions, and is simply the reciprocal of AFRst.
Equivalence Ratio is the ratio of actual Fuel Air Ratio to Stoichiometric Fuel Air Ratio; it provides an intuitive way to express richer mixtures. Lambda is the ratio of actual Air Fuel Ratio to Stoichiometric Air Fuel Ratio; it provides an intuitive way to express leanness conditions (i.e, less fuel, less rich) mixtures of fuel and air.
When driving purely on E85 you can blend it with up to 25% gasoline in case you want to raise the AFR number used to produce max. power. In that case you can raise the boost even further since the volume of fuel needed to reach the desired lambda is decreased.
Let's pretend for a while that the ECU's in our cars are pretty good at their jobs. On gasoline it will try to keep an AFR of 14.7 (lambda=1) all the time at idle, cruise and light load. It will also try to keep a good AFR at WOT/boost of 13.2-12.5, sometimes even lower than that, probably closer to 11.x.
Why? Because the fuel has a cooling effect on the intake charge and the space in which the combustion occurs.
As you can see from the table shown above this section, the ideal target AFR's under boost for both gasoline and E85 are listed. For gasoline it´s 13.23-12.5, and for E85 it´s 8.47-6.975. However, with E85 you will not need to richen the mixture under WOT/boost as far as 6.975 or beyond. It does not need to be proportionally richer when compared to gasoline.
Why? Again, Because the fuel has a cooling effect on the intake charge and the space in which the combustion occurs. And at such a low AFR as 9.765 (lambda=1 on E85) or lower the fuel cools pretty good, don't you think so?
Mode ........... Gas .... E85 ...... extra % (mass) ... extra % (flow)
Stoich .......... 14.7 .... 9.765 ........ +50.5% ................ +42%
Lean power ... 13.2 .... 8.47 .......... +55.8% ................ +47%
Rich power .... 12.5 .... 6.975 ........ +79.2% ................ +69%
E85 has a higher density than gasoline. The change in AFR from 14.7 (lambda=1 for gasoline) to 9.765 (lambda=1 for E85) is 50.5%. But the resulting flow needed is only 42% greater.
E85 will need a fuel flow that is 42% greater than the flow needed for gasoline. However, it will not use 42% more fuel since it will actually be more efficient. Generally, the engine will consume approximately 30% more fuel.


_Modified by wizbang23 at 6:35 PM 6-11-2008_


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (wizbang23)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wizbang23* »_Hey how's it going...I noticed this thread and thought I'd throw in my two cents. I'm currently running straight E85 also, but i was wondering where your injector figures came from? my car is a 2003 Audi a4 1.8T (AMB Engine). Stock injectors (BOSCH p/n 0280156065) for the 2003 model year are 282cc @ 3BAR. so, when i decided to run E85 i added a 45% margin to the stock injector flow rate to get the new flow rate of 408.9cc. As of this moment my setup is as follows....APR 93/100, APR 2.5" Sport Exhaust, OEM A4 MAF, Forge 007 DV, and Genesis High Impedance 415cc Injectors, Custom Pulse Width Modulator Inline between ECU and Injector Harness (adding 30% duty cycle to injector pulsing)

 
my injector figures came from logging my old setup, followed by my current logs showing 630s at 73% duty cycle, when i ran 440s ([email protected] 4bar) on a 50/50 mix i was leaning out or pump wasnt able to keep up.
You might want to log your duty cycle, plus my setup is a lil more extreme then yours. I also ran out of fuel on stock injectors thus upgrading to the 380s in the first place. My 317s at 4bar ran out of juice on my current set up before E85, they were running at 98% duty cycle. I went with 630s, one bc i am going 630 file BT, and two i want to keep my injector pulse below 80% which seems to be the safe area.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*

So the plan?


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_So the plan? 

i got to meet my GF for a portfolio show at 5:30, it starts at 6, should be over by 630. Want me to give you a call? I assume you will just be up here visiting with your GF?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. ([email protected])*

you guys hitting the dyno tonight? If so, when and where?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
i got to meet my GF for a portfolio show at 5:30, it starts at 6, should be over by 630. Want me to give you a call? I assume you will just be up here visiting with your GF?

Yeah, PM me your number, I don't think I'm going to dyno but I'll come hang out.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_you guys hitting the dyno tonight? If so, when and where?


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
http://dynolab.net/ 
My name won't get you any discount.









dyno time from 5-11 pm
btw i should have Josh's ECU and money


_Modified by theswoleguy at 1:26 PM 6-12-2008_


----------



## 04VDubGLI (May 20, 2005)

Just jumping on to watch...








I do enjoy people trying new things.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (04VDubGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *04VDubGLI* »_Just jumping on to watch...








I do enjoy people trying new things.

thanks, kinda of weird being the mother ****ing Christopher Columbus of something in the Dub community. No faqs or anything to follow other then the knowledge of some others that have put in their .02 enjoying it though and hopefully it does something... lol


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

Uh, I ran straight E85 like 2+ years ago on my K03, I just didn't bother to document it since I didn't have a regular supply for it, Chris.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Uh, I ran straight E85 like 2+ years ago on my K03, I just didn't bother to document it since I didn't have a regular supply for it, Chris.









lol you know what i mean man, i am not taking credit for it, just in general, everyone in this thread with me is like Christopher columbus we are all kinda of bouncing along till one of us finds something.
BTW you are right you might ran it, but like CC i am getting the credit for writing it down








Its just weird not really able to go anywhere for answers. I have UNIs support but pretty much we all just along for the ride.


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

how much power do you feel you were making with it?


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_how much power do you feel you were making with it?

bah no butt dynos. lol with that being said, i feel as fast if not faster then then when i first dynod at 246 / 311. With that being said, if i get to dyno tonight if i put down similar results or better i will be happy. Different Dyno, different weather / humidity and ****. Still a dynojet though


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

not going to make it tonight guys sorry. Plus want to go when adam can go, we will try his 630 ecu as well vs cracked Chip software. I know BOOO dissapointment. Patience it will come.
Car is running weird going to check plugs and everything this weekend.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_not going to make it tonight guys sorry. Plus want to go when adam can go, we will try his 630 ecu as well vs cracked Chip software. I know BOOO dissapointment. Patience it will come.
Car is running weird going to check plugs and everything this weekend. 


I was reading that due to the affect (cooling)alcohol has on the intake charge during the compression stroke that you may want to run plugs that are factory heat range.
Apparently plugs that are too cold will foul out easy. Makes sense.
Definitely interested in what your plugs look like and what is going on! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Hope it is something overlooked and easily corrected!
I mixed 2 gallons of e85 with 12.5 of 93 yesterday at fillup time. I also grabbed some NGK BKR6E's.
Walbro 255 is on order. If I don't end up using it on this, I can use it on the syncro. 
Please keep us updated man! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by gdoggmoney at 7:31 AM 6-13-2008_


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_

I was reading that due to the affect (cooling)alcohol has on the intake charge during the compression stroke that you may want to run plugs that are factory heat range.
Apparently plugs that are too cold will foul out easy. Makes sense.
Definitely interested in what your plugs look like and what is going on! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Hope it is something overlooked and easily corrected!
I mixed 2 gallons of e85 with 12.5 of 93 yesterday at fillup time. I also grabbed some NGK BKR6E's.
Walbro 255 is on order. If I don't end up using it on this, I can use it on the syncro. 
Please keep us updated man! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by gdoggmoney at 7:31 AM 6-13-2008_

camera was at rent in laws, plugs look... well weird. they are black, like chrome black not soot, on the base, the angled electrode is ashy, but there is shades of red all over.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

put in about 25% e85 (my fuel trims were -12.5, so I thought I could get away with it)....man it really wakes the top end up.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_put in about 25% e85 (my fuel trims were -12.5, so I thought I could get away with it)....man it really wakes the top end up.

indeed indeed


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_ I understand that from the initial post but how to figure that out with a turbo like the gt3071r its gotta be around that. Also hes running on the ko3s as of right now with the 630's on 100oct program with aparently no tweeking.

I uses 1000cc delphi's on a 20/20 with a 3071r running E85, 630's were removed. E85 is the ****.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

I'm thinking that converting to e85 would make water/meth redundant...should I keep it or sell it?


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_I'm thinking that converting to e85 would make water/meth redundant...should I keep it or sell it?

i am keeping mine, changing the setup to be more of a post intercooler cooler


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
camera was at rent in laws, plugs look... well weird. they are black, like chrome black not soot, on the base, the angled electrode is ashy, but there is shades of red all over.

Yes the e85 does wake the top up, I am thinking with hotter plugs it will be better as well since the previous mentioned effects of alcohol during the compression stroke..
It sounds like you are cold fouling them. 
Red is not that bad, red is a sign of a well used plug. 
Get some pictures up. As high res as you can, if possible.



_Modified by gdoggmoney at 9:35 PM 6-13-2008_


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I pulled my BKR7E's today that have approximately 800 miles on them. A full tank of 93 and then a tank of 93 and 2 gallons of e85.
They had an odd anodized looking red tint to the metal base, the ceramic insulator looked normal. The electrode looked normal, and the angled part had some fair colored grey ash. 
The motor seems to enjoy the BKR6E's more from a seat of the pants feel so far. I just filled up again an hour ago, this time 2.5 gallons of E85 and the rest(12 ish gallons) 93. 
Unfortunately I broke a driveshaft shop stage 0 axle at stock ride height while pulling into the shop.








I can't believe how weak these axles are. I NEVER drag race my car.


_Modified by gdoggmoney at 4:05 PM 6-14-2008_


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

I'd wager that you'd need 5 gal to make a difference, and obviously advancing timing (are you doing this?) This 2 and 2.5 gallons might help but I doubt you're doing much. That said, yeah, I'm not a fan of DSS either after breaking two of the shafts, not the joints. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I'd wager that you'd need 5 gal to make a difference, and obviously advancing timing (are you doing this?) This 2 and 2.5 gallons might help but I doubt you're doing much. That said, yeah, I'm not a fan of DSS either after breaking two of the shafts, not the joints. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

It could be placebo. Could be the hotter heat range plugs. I still felt something even on the BKR7E's, the 6's feel better. *shrug*. The car really does feel peppier for any given throttle input, and I have a pretty sensitive foot and butt.
Not touching timing, I don't have a serial to OBD2 connector. I have an old Vag-Com iso-com serial interface and that does not seem to work with lemmiwinks. I am hesitant to push the mix further without logging. I have a 4 bar FPR, stock injectors and pump. I have a 255 inline on the way.
I had access to a Snap-On modis diagnostic tool today briefly and my short term fuel trim was -7.3% my long term was -2.3% It was not pulling timing for the 10 minutes I did graphing. The 02 voltage seemed relatively normal. I am not sure what my duty cycle is looking like though. 
I thought these programs(APR/Giac/Uni stock) ran pretty high duty cycle, even at 4 bar rail pressure on stock injectors.
I am going to grab the plugs and take some pictures to post. The red color is pretty neat.
Since you ran all the way on E85 with a K03s, can you share your experience? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Also to the driveshaft shop stuff, yeah. I am getting more mileage so far out of a chinese axle and EMPI axle that had more play to begin with. They are still together. 
I got about 3 months at very near stock ride height out of the DSS stage 0 axles. No drag racing, etc. Pretty pissed off.


_Modified by gdoggmoney at 4:37 PM 6-14-2008_


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

I'm sure in this heat it helps with timing pull but you're not going to get real gains without increasing timing. You should be able to use Lemmiwinks with a serial cable, always worked for me. As for my experience with E85, this was a long time ago, but I'd run a 50/50 mix with 93 octane and 4 bar of fuel pressure on a race file, seemed to work pretty well with minimal timing pull and similar performance to race gas.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I'm sure in this heat it helps with timing pull but you're not going to get real gains without increasing timing. You should be able to use Lemmiwinks with a serial cable, always worked for me. As for my experience with E85, this was a long time ago, but I'd run a 50/50 mix with 93 octane and 4 bar of fuel pressure on a race file, seemed to work pretty well with minimal timing pull and similar performance to race gas. 

Did you use a vag-com cable? Or a serial that goes straight from the DB9 to the OBDII connector? 
I read on here that some folks said you need that serial to OBDII cable. I get a weird response from the ecu. I have tried it a few times and the serial port is correct. I have an unregistered vag-com now that I had to change laptops. I am stuck with a Snap-On modis that may be able to do the VW audi stuff. 
I just don't want to blow up my car, it is my daily driver. I am doing it cautiously.
I will go look at it in the morning, because it has a general OBDII function then it has a specific key and programming for the 96-0x VW cars.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

Pull fuse 11 and I bet your cable will work with Lemmiwinks.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I'm sure in this heat it helps with timing pull but you're not going to get real gains without increasing timing. You should be able to use Lemmiwinks with a serial cable, always worked for me. As for my experience with E85, this was a long time ago, but I'd run a 50/50 mix with 93 octane and 4 bar of fuel pressure on a race file, seemed to work pretty well with minimal timing pull and similar performance to race gas. 

I was pulling 8 degrees of timing with cranked wastegate/watermeth and good old california 91 (13 degress BTDC near redline). I dropped 2 gallons of ethanol in a tank that had 4-5 gallons of gasoline....trust me, this bish is flying now. The topend is what I've always wanted it to be


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
I was pulling 8 degrees of timing with cranked wastegate/watermeth and good old california 91 (13 degress BTDC near redline). I dropped 2 gallons of ethanol in a tank that had 4-5 gallons of gasoline....trust me, this bish is flying now. The topend is what I've always wanted it to be

You have a much greater mix there, but even with the little bit I am mixing, it feels peppier than plain 93. It also could have been the hotter plugs I put in.
Need to log here and increase the mix if it is safe







Nothing to log with!


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Thanks Adam. I pulled fuse 11 and it did work. I adjusted some fuel adjustments to 104% and the timing has been bumped up .75 degrees








I also got rid of my 3" exhaust rattle by idling the car at 900. Much nicer all around. 
Still need to reg the vag-com and start logging before I go nuts.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_Thanks Adam. I pulled fuse 11 and it did work.

Glad you got it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
I was pulling 8 degrees of timing with cranked wastegate/watermeth and good old california 91 (13 degress BTDC near redline). I dropped 2 gallons of ethanol in a tank that had 4-5 gallons of gasoline....trust me, this bish is flying now. The topend is what I've always wanted it to be

You couldn't get rid of the timing pull with w/m alone?


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Glad you got it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You couldn't get rid of the timing pull with w/m alone?










cranked gate and 91, yea i am sure meth alone couldnt cut it


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_

cranked gate and 91, yea i am sure meth alone couldnt cut it

These cars seem to pull timing and get less responsive when hot on a good tank of 93 without a cranked wastegate.
Any updates on your setup? Are you still running 100% E85, put new plugs in?
I moved my mix up. I have a 4gal mix in this tank. Fuel trims still look ok. 
After this tank I'll pull the plugs. Watching my timing, it never ever pulls any timing. Hard runs, hot weather, beating on it. The throttle response on tip in and power is always the same, all the way up the tach! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_
These cars seem to pull timing and get less responsive when hot on a good tank of 93 without a cranked wastegate.
Any updates on your setup? Are you still running 100% E85, put new plugs in?
I moved my mix up. I have a 4gal mix in this tank. Fuel trims still look ok. 
After this tank I'll pull the plugs. Watching my timing, it never ever pulls any timing. Hard runs, hot weather, beating on it. The throttle response on tip in and power is always the same, all the way up the tach! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


everything the same, the gap on my plugs wandered so i had to put them back. Trying to find time when i can meet up with adam so i can do one dyno. We want to try to see max power i can get on cracked APR vs trying a UNI 630 ECU. Still straight E85. No issues, think its time for plugs though in all honesty.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
everything the same, the gap on my plugs wandered so i had to put them back. Trying to find time when i can meet up with adam so i can do one dyno. We want to try to see max power i can get on cracked APR vs trying a UNI 630 ECU. Still straight E85. No issues, think its time for plugs though in all honesty.

Cracked apr? What is that?


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

my setup is cracked out APR. i mean seriously what else would you call it. APR software was not engineered to run anything that i am running. Not 630s, not vr maf nothing lol


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_
Cracked apr? What is that?


Standard APR








theswoleguy's APR








EDIT: Added more appropriate cracked pic


_Modified by NOLA_VDubber at 2:07 PM 6-17-2008_


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*

[email protected]#!# Yes.









Tyrone Biggums approved! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

So I am putting together a plan here, submitting it for thread approval and or picking apart.
I want to have the best of both worlds. I want to have the hardware in the car at all times to run E85. But I realize I travel a lot for work, and need to be able to dump plain 93 into the car in a pinch and run it with no issues. 
The only hangup I can see is the following.
Injectors that are rated for 40% more flow.
I could easily switch the APR back from 100octane to the 93 octane program after a fill on a near empty tank. Do the same in reverse when fillin up with e85, and just drive the car around in vacuum a gallon or so goes through.
With injectors that much larger, would the ECU take care of trimming the fuel back itself on the 93 program, or could I use lemmiwinks and basically scale down the required fuel values by 40% and be ok?
Since it's a blanket 40% all over for the same equivalence, then I should be ok by cranking back the fuel values by that much?
Will lemmiwinks and the adaption channels allow that much?


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

well i honestly havent tried, you might be able to pull 25% from LW and then the ECU might be able to take over the rest of the pulling but the ecu can only pull 25% as well. Anywhere close to 20% and the ecu will most likely trigger a CEL. 
What i plan to try, with Adams help, is a 630 ECU. Not sure how that will run on a ko3 and not sure how it will run on E85 but the injectors are there.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

GTER said that the 3inch maf was good up to 630 injectors. So yeah, you can trim back enough fuel. Any larger though, and you'll need an S4 maf.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_GTER said that the 3inch maf was good up to 630 injectors. So yeah, you can trim back enough fuel. Any larger though, and you'll need an S4 maf.

lol as much as i love you guys, i dont think i want to fill up with 93 and try it, to have to swap out injectors ( i know not hard) but then i give up all this enjoyment i have been having with this E85 lol i have been like this for a while now a few tanks and to go back to 93 will just blow.
BTW 250 miles to a tank is going to be my average. Not going to get any better then that i guess lol


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
lol as much as i love you guys, i dont think i want to fill up with 93 and try it, to have to swap out injectors ( i know not hard) but then i give up all this enjoyment i have been having with this E85 lol i have been like this for a while now a few tanks and to go back to 93 will just blow.
BTW 250 miles to a tank is going to be my average. Not going to get any better then that i guess lol

Have you tried hotter plugs, factory heat range?
I understand. I may have to do this. 
Were your calculations for 580's doing math for your BT setup? 
Because i'm staying on a k03s, and that sounds big, like it's more than 40% over stock injectors. Even though I can't find a consistent answer searching here what the stock injectors flow.
I think maybe if I went back to 3 bar at the rail doing this, it may help also in dialing back fuel for tanks of 93.......
Hrmm....


_Modified by gdoggmoney at 12:26 PM 6-18-2008_


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_
Have you tried hotter plugs, factory heat range? * Stock Heat Range*
I understand. I may have to do this. 
Were your calculations for 580's doing math for your BT setup? * i went for 630s bc thats the file i am going and you always keep the injectors for your file. I figured 580s to keep that safe dutcy cycle of 80% as well. *
Because i'm staying on a k03s, and that sounds big, like it's more than 40% over stock injectors. Even though I can't find a consistent answer searching here what the stock injectors flow. * my AWPs flow 317 cc @ 3 bar *
I think maybe if I went back to 3 bar at the rail doing this, it may help also in dialing back fuel for tanks of 93.......
Hrmm....


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

I have my injectors, walbro and bpi flowstack coming next week. I'll have to tune for 91 temporarily so I can drive my ass out to the e85 station. I'll let you know how the 630s work with the vr maf on pump gas.(sort of...ever since I started throwing in ethanol into the mix, I just don't want to ever go back to straight pump gas)


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_I have my injectors, walbro and bpi flowstack coming next week. I'll have to tune for 91 temporarily so I can drive my ass out to the e85 station. I'll let you know how the 630s work with the vr maf on pump gas.(sort of...ever since I started throwing in ethanol into the mix, I just don't want to ever go back to straight pump gas)


Do let me know. And I also agree, I plan on at least mixing 3.5 gals of E85 per tank now. The car feels nice.


----------



## nopistons (Mar 4, 2004)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

so whats the limit of e85 you can run on stock fueling??


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (nopistons)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nopistons* »_so whats the limit of e85 you can run on stock fueling??

Depends on your mods.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

I'm thinking water/meth and ethanol is a bad idea...since the water+ethanol team up to create acid. Running 100 percent alcohol/methanol is an expensive (and slightly dangerous) proposition. I'm thinking that a 50 shot fogger will take the place of my water/meth nozzle. (after I throw some rods on)


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_I'm thinking water/meth and ethanol is a bad idea...since the water+ethanol team up to create acid. Running 100 percent alcohol/methanol is an expensive (and slightly dangerous) proposition. I'm thinking that a 50 shot fogger will take the place of my water/meth nozzle. (after I throw some rods on)


It was my understanding that methanol is corrosive as hell by itself. It also requires more of it than ethanol as a fuel. That probably is a bad idea mixing it with water injection.
As an update, I'm mixing 4 gallons per fillup now. Car has never been happier. 10.5 of 93 and 4 of E85.
When I was in chicago this past week the E85 there seemed to affect my mileage more. Out here, whatever we get seems to affect it less.








Probably slightly different blends or something.


----------



## nopistons (Mar 4, 2004)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
Depends on your mods.

3" TB
TIP
fmic
giac x+
w/m
stock fueling
e85 is 2.85 here, so id like to try a mix of some sort, how many gallons should i dump in the tank with the stock fueling? i have vag and laptop so i can log, i was just hoping to save some time logging


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## bzflag (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (nopistons)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nopistons* »_
3" TB
TIP
fmic
giac x+
w/m
stock fueling
e85 is 2.85 here, so id like to try a mix of some sort, how many gallons should i dump in the tank with the stock fueling? i have vag and laptop so i can log, i was just hoping to save some time logging









You're probably close to the limit of the stock injectors already just running 93. Maybe grab a 4bar fpr and log your duty cycle to see how many gallons of e85 you could run per tank. My guess is not very many.


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## dlsolo (Sep 6, 2004)

WOW!
So this E85 thing is seriously taking off? UNI 630BT file on E85? That's gonna be freakin' awesome! I'm gonna need to keep an eye on this thread!


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I'm still waiting to get my barrels of E85. 
I am still considering going full blown E85, and running the APR 100 octane program daily.
Just need the barrels at the shop so I can fillup..... one damn station that sells to the public and it's 15 miles away.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (dlsolo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dlsolo* »_WOW!
So this E85 thing is seriously taking off? UNI 630BT file on E85? That's gonna be freakin' awesome! I'm gonna need to keep an eye on this thread!

i will try the 630 file on stock turbo, waiting on adam







whenever he is up here and we can meet we will dyno as well. if we have both ecus at the time we will try both. 
I will run my 50trim on it as well but not for max power till i do rods and 870s


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## methodicalmayhem (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

Welcome to the wonderful world of Corn Juice. Out here in the thin air there is a shop, Autobahn Premier Service, that has been running a few of their cars on E85 for around a year now, mine included. I dont have quite the information available to me as you do since this shop has all the data logs performed with these vehicles. I will forward this thread on to them and see if they want to add their $0.02 about the subject.
It's amazing how only a few months ago no one wanted anything to do with E85 and now that gas is above $4/gal and people can actually see the performance gains how their attitudes change. IMHO the performance gains are totally worth switching over.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (methodicalmayhem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *methodicalmayhem* »_Welcome to the wonderful world of Corn Juice. Out here in the thin air there is a shop, Autobahn Premier Service, that has been running a few of their cars on E85 for around a year now, mine included. I dont have quite the information available to me as you do since this shop has all the data logs performed with these vehicles. I will forward this thread on to them and see if they want to add their $0.02 about the subject.
It's amazing how only a few months ago no one wanted anything to do with E85 and now that gas is above $4/gal and people can actually see the performance gains how their attitudes change. IMHO the performance gains are totally worth switching over.

x2 def have them come in. i am interested at least


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## dlsolo (Sep 6, 2004)

Yeah, more info please!


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (methodicalmayhem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *methodicalmayhem* »_It's amazing how only a few months ago no one wanted anything to do with E85 and now that gas is above $4/gal and people can actually see the performance gains how their attitudes change. IMHO the performance gains are totally worth switching over.

been using it for almost a year now. at that time it was 2.00/gal


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## EuroTrash88 (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*

does anyone know if there is a e85 station in the clifton area in nj, i did the mileage economy and its cheaper to be running this stuff lol


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (EuroTrash88)*

go to the first page i put the national ethanol home page there and it will search your area


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## methodicalmayhem (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_go to the first page i put the national ethanol home page there and it will search your area

The only problem with the site you posted is that it's not very current. When I compare that page to ones with a localized search there are huge differences.
To the poster looking for places in Jersey with E85, do a google search for the following "new jersey e85" and you will get better results than the page listed.


----------



## Autobahn Wrench (Aug 29, 2005)

I am the tuner of methodicalmayhem's car. I will chime in here now that I have time.
Here are some links to various posts I have made on E85 including a Dyno of one of our E85 powered 1.8T's
Link to my personal 1.8T E85 powered car:
http://www.passatworld.com/for...61436
My personal thoughts on E85:
Being the self-proclaimed expert on E85 I will chime in here. I have more data on it that you can imagine. I have helped others (on this forum and elsewhere) convert their cars to run on E85.
1. I will not debate geo-political concerns about E85. I believe it has no place on a automotive forum. If you want to do that, write Congress or go to the Black Hole Forum here.
2. Too all of you who say E85 is going to rot the fuel lines, tank, injectors and every other part in the fuel system......Please keep your mis-guided fears to your self! You are wrong.
3. E85 as a performance tool is great. No, you are not going to save a ton of money over gas, but that is not the point. If you are using it it purely for performance, you will save over $6+ gallon race fuel.
4. I have been running 100% E85 in my 1.8T for the last 20,000 miles. I have had absolutely no issues what so ever. I have tuned the car to run on it, adding the right size injectors to deliver the additional fuel needed. I have also change the ECU programming to add timing, boost and adjust the fueling for idol, warm-up, part throttle and WOT. There has been no degradation to the fuel system, gaskets, seals, or any other part on the motor. I just converted my 2.8 A4 and the results are wonderful so far. I am not finished with the testing, but believe that the conversion is going to be permanent, as it is on my Passat.
5. With respect to heat. I have data that will prove the motor does not run as hot on E85 as it does on Gas. This is also easily explained with a simple look at the thermal properties of alcohol and gasohol. BTU rating for Ethanol is lower then gas. Look it up!
6. I agree that just dumping E85 in to a completely stock car with cause the fuel trims to go way out of line. That is why changes need to be made to the fuel delivery system (ie: injectors, FPR and in some cases the pump). E85 requires about 30% more total fuel in the chamber then gas, so you have to account for that.
If the car is equipped with a wide band oxygen sensor (as most VAG cas from 2002 on are) it make the tuning easier. This is because the car targets Lambda. This aids in achieving the correct targeted fuel mixture. NO THIS IS NOT ABOUT AIR FUEL RATIO, please do not make that mistake. Lambda is completely different. If you so not understand this, research it. I will only offer this piece of the equation. Lambda 1 is Lambda 1.
7. My Passat passed emissions, in Colorado, on 100% E85. There is no Cat in my car, so this proves that pollution is also less on Ethanol. Although emission testing for the most part is a joke here.
- Randy


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I am the tuner of methodicalmayhem's car. I will chime in here now that I have time.
Here are some links to various posts I have made on E85 including a Dyno of one of our E85 powered 1.8T's
Link to my personal 1.8T E85 powered car:
http://www.passatworld.com/for...61436
My personal thoughts on E85:
Being the self-proclaimed expert on E85 I will chime in here. I have more data on it that you can imagine. I have helped others (on this forum and elsewhere) convert their cars to run on E85.
1. I will not debate geo-political concerns about E85. I believe it has no place on a automotive forum. If you want to do that, write Congress or go to the Black Hole Forum here. * Agreed*
2. Too all of you who say E85 is going to rot the fuel lines, tank, injectors and every other part in the fuel system......Please keep your mis-guided fears to your self! You are wrong. * 5k here *
3. E85 as a performance tool is great. No, you are not going to save a ton of money over gas, but that is not the point. If you are using it it purely for performance, you will save over $6+ gallon race fuel. * Performance here careless about the price being cheaper then 93 as well use it as performance *
4. I have been running 100% E85 in my 1.8T for the last 20,000 miles. I have had absolutely no issues what so ever. I have tuned the car to run on it, adding the right size injectors to deliver the additional fuel needed. I have also change the ECU programming to add timing, boost and adjust the fueling for idol, warm-up, part throttle and WOT. There has been no degradation to the fuel system, gaskets, seals, or any other part on the motor. I just converted my 2.8 A4 and the results are wonderful so far. I am not finished with the testing, but believe that the conversion is going to be permanent, as it is on my Passat.
5. With respect to heat. I have data that will prove the motor does not run as hot on E85 as it does on Gas. This is also easily explained with a simple look at the thermal properties of alcohol and gasohol. BTU rating for Ethanol is lower then gas. Look it up! * ditto and agreed, runs about 10-15* cooler *
6. I agree that just dumping E85 in to a completely stock car with cause the fuel trims to go way out of line. That is why changes need to be made to the fuel delivery system (ie: injectors, FPR and in some cases the pump). E85 requires about 30% more total fuel in the chamber then gas, so you have to account for that. * x2 *
If the car is equipped with a wide band oxygen sensor (as most VAG cas from 2002 on are) it make the tuning easier. This is because the car targets Lambda. This aids in achieving the correct targeted fuel mixture. NO THIS IS NOT ABOUT AIR FUEL RATIO, please do not make that mistake. Lambda is completely different. If you so not understand this, research it. I will only offer this piece of the equation. Lambda 1 is Lambda 1. * indeed mention in the OT *
7. My Passat passed emissions, in Colorado, on 100% E85. There is no Cat in my car, so this proves that pollution is also less on Ethanol. Although emission testing for the most part is a joke here. * wait did you do a sniffer or are you saying with no cat and no cat delete you do not trigger a cel for the lack of cat *
- Randy

Hey Thanks randy


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

Got my walbro, injector spacers, and usrt fuel pump relay/wires from Savwko....now I gotta find some 630s and miscellanious connections...then I can finally run full e85.


----------



## Autobahn Wrench (Aug 29, 2005)

I passes emissions with no cat, just a test pipe. I do have CEL, but in CO a CEL is not an automatic fail on emissions.
My car was tested on the rollers and passed with flying colors.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I passes emissions with no cat, just a test pipe. I do have CEL, but in CO a CEL is not an automatic fail on emissions.
My car was tested on the rollers and passed with flying colors.

wow that is interesting, actually so you think it is possible that with a cat that you are pretty much a 0 emission vehicle


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Bumping this back up. Swoleguy, have you made calculations on how much horsepower 630s, 4 bar, and an inline walbro will provide? I might go the 50 trim route myself...I'd be truly dissappointed if I couldn't squeeze 350-370whp out of it without maxing out the entire fuel setup.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_Bumping this back up. Swoleguy, have you made calculations on how much horsepower 630s, 4 bar, and an inline walbro will provide? I might go the 50 trim route myself...I'd be truly dissappointed if I couldn't squeeze 350-370whp out of it without maxing out the entire fuel setup.

going to go with 870s for max power on a t3t4 50 trim. Its just one of those things with me already being at 70% on a ko3. when i get my 50 trim put on i will run logs on it to keep an eye out, one time when adam is in town and we go to the dyno we will do logs and kepe upping boost till i hit around 320 or run out of injectors, dont want to go much over that on stock rods, call my a ***** but hey, its my block not anyone elses right? 
With a 4bar that is another 100.8 ccs or 730.8 so its possible that i might be able to do it. Just with a 4bar and then another 2 bar thats 6 bar in the fuel system. Still havent forgot but with this semester winding down, projects, studying for finals, and this internship, i just havent been able to get to the dyno... BTW 270 a tank, w00t w00t, record lol all hwy. 19.28 mpg lol


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
going to go with 870s for max power on a t3t4 50 trim. Its just one of those things with me already being at 70% on a ko3. when i get my 50 trim put on i will run logs on it to keep an eye out, one time when adam is in town and we go to the dyno we will do logs and kepe upping boost till i hit around 320 or run out of injectors, dont want to go much over that on stock rods, call my a ***** but hey, its my block not anyone elses right? 
With a 4bar that is another 100.8 ccs or 730.8 so its possible that i might be able to do it. Just with a 4bar and then another 2 bar thats 6 bar in the fuel system. Still havent forgot but with this semester winding down, projects, studying for finals, and this internship, i just havent been able to get to the dyno... BTW 270 a tank, w00t w00t, record lol all hwy. 19.28 mpg lol

Going to 870s really isn't an option for me....so far I'm set on the 28r at high boost and crazy timing + e85....but with all the waterfest specials...the thought of having a 50 trim is really tempting.


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## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

These are the threads that really help the community. Hope to learn more as results come in... Thanks:thumbup:


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*

Are you worried about impedance and idle with 870s? 
Going to run a honda resistor box and programming or something?


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_Are you worried about impedance and idle with 870s? 
Going to run a honda resistor box and programming or something?

You can get 870s in high impedence I believe....Idle should be fine as well...I just don't wanna sell a near new set of 630s at a loss for the 870s + acquiring an S4 maf housing when it was a pain in the ass just finding a cheap VR housing in the first place....
edit:
nevermind, you were right....low impedence only...so now you have to add a resistor box into the equation.
another edit:
I'm pretty sure that if I were to need 870s, my walbro inline would be close to maxed out as well...so you have to budget in a bigger badder inline, or a better intank with the good old walbro...either way, mo moneyz.
_Modified by 20aeman at 5:24 PM 7-21-2008_


_Modified by 20aeman at 5:26 PM 7-21-2008_


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
You can get 870s in high impedence I believe....Idle should be fine as well...I just don't wanna sell a near new set of 630s at a loss for the 870s + acquiring an S4 maf housing when it was a pain in the ass just finding a cheap VR housing in the first place....
edit:
nevermind, you were right....low impedence only...so now you have to add a resistor box into the equation.

_Modified by 20aeman at 5:24 PM 7-21-2008_

Yeah, I was going to say, beyond a certain point high impedance injectors since you will not be able to crank the pulsewidth low enough at idle on high impedance injectors to keep them from running way rich.
You more than likely need different programming also, low impedance injectors react faster and I think have a different opening time.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

you can get 870s and 925s hi impedance


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_you can get 870s and 925s hi impedance


Are you sure you can get programming for them? Can they even idle?
My limited experience with megasquirt and 55lb high impedance injectors in a 1.8l JH motor tells me that I was on that fine line already using high impedance injectors. Of course I am just now discovering that said 1.8 has ring blowby problems, but others have stated the same.










Maybe that's why uni goes to a 630 file only?
The TAPP 1000cc program uses low impedance injectors IIRC, I remember reading.(think I saw it in this forum) Probably for this reason.


_Modified by gdoggmoney at 10:21 AM 7-22-2008_


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## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

I just found an E85 station less than 2 miles from my pad, so I'm going to go dual mode with E85 as my primary and I already have a toggle that will switch maps so I can go back to 93 in a pinch.
Would love to see more timing and injector duty logs


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (BlueSleeper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlueSleeper* »_I just found an E85 station less than 2 miles from my pad, so I'm going to go dual mode with E85 as my primary and I already have a toggle that will switch maps so I can go back to 93 in a pinch.
Would love to see more timing and injector duty logs










Please share how you are doing this exactly and what hardware/software/setup. This is pretty much what I want to do.
My idea to get close was to get injectors that would flow 30% more in combination with a 4 bar, then for 93 octane fillups, go back to 3 bar of pressure at the rail with 15-20% larger injectors, and hope/pray the ECU dials back the pulsewidths across the board to compensate. Then switch from the 100 octane program, back to 93 after dropping the ecu power to let it re-adapt.









If anyone from APR is reading this thread, please write a e85 program, or offer updated code for 35% larger injectors at a moderate price.
It'd probably be pretty easy to offer people a loadable flash with an e85 program and all the regular programs updated for 35%

This is the best idea so far I think, but who is offering e85 software? Paging APR/Unitronic/GIAC.
Time to offer a solid e85 program, and the regular programs for larger injectors and I will switch.
If you do this, with the nifty APR setups I can just use my cruise control to drop to the 93 program when I can not find any e85! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Uni has an 870 and working on a 925 file. Adam is running 870s currently.
I have talked to APR and UNI, both say its a no go bc technically our fuel systems are not made to run E85 and they dont want ot deal with the liabilty that someones fuel system may rot and blame it on them.
But my rebutle was that our fuel systems/engines were not meant to run leaded race gas but that didnt stop you from making a race gas file.
No go though guys, APR is watching the thread as well as the UNI guys but as stated its a no go.
Even adam tried hard to talk to them into it when this thread came up and its one of those things like they will help with a custom tune but then you are stuck on Straight E85 bc uni doesnt have switchabilty. 
I will PM a mod and see if he can add a poll to the beginning for everyone who is interested to petition for a E85 file.
Edit: PM'd Boostin20v, awaiting response


_Modified by theswoleguy at 8:16 AM 7-22-2008_


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_Uni has an 870 and working on a 925 file. Adam is running 870s currently.
I have talked to APR and UNI, both say its a no go bc technically our fuel systems are not made to run E85 and they dont want ot deal with the liabilty that someones fuel system may rot and blame it on them.
But my rebutle was that our fuel systems/engines were not meant to run leaded race gas but that didnt stop you from making a race gas file.
No go though guys, APR is watching the thread as well as the UNI guys but as stated its a no go.
Even adam tried hard to talk to them into it when this thread came up and its one of those things like they will help with a custom tune but then you are stuck on Straight E85 bc uni doesnt have switchabilty. 
I will PM a mod and see if he can add a poll to the beginning for everyone who is interested to petition for a E85 file.
Edit: PM'd Boostin20v, awaiting response

_Modified by theswoleguy at 8:16 AM 7-22-2008_


You know, I am not sure I buy that whole our fuel systems were not designed for it arguement.
VAG is one of the most parts bin lego like manufacturers out there. They also have a large market share in ethanol countries, such as brazil.
OH HEY LOOK
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817

_Quote »_ Despite these unique circumstances, Brazil's efforts are being closely followed by countries with big fuel bills. India and China have sent a parade of top officials to see Brazil's program. India, the world's second-biggest sugar producer behind Brazil, mandated in 2003 that nine of its states add a 5% ethanol mixture to gas. The Brazilian unit of Germany's Volkswagen AG, the first car maker to introduce a flex-fuel model in Brazil, has received 38 delegations from more than a dozen countries in the past year alone, VW officials say.

Compelling arguement is that VW probably uses the same plastics, and supply bits on our cars as they do in the brazil cars. 
We can figure that out. Looking at the fuel system on my MKIV, ethanol does not scare me.
I mean if I have to buy a fuel rail or injectors in 3-5 years? Yeah whatever, the performance has been worth it. I can't really see anything else going.
Maybe a walbro, or factory pump, if they don't like being fed e-85 constantly. 
Perhaps it is time to start looking at how the brazil flex car works?
APR: Give us an E85 file and your standard 10% ethanol maps for injectors 35% larger than stock. There are a lot of us educated folks here who can make our own decisions and even modify our own fuel systems. Just like any thing else, the software is offroad use and APR is not responsible for anything. Same deal when I run your 93 octane software in my GTi.
How much longer are MKIV's going to be in warranty? A good chunk of them have not seen a dealership in years and never will again. These are also the same cars running your software.
Stuff like this may keep me buying APR or whatever companies products, because they listen. dd
We have the hardware for this. It is times like this where it seriously irritates me how a few select people understand the late motronic internals. 
If we as a community did, we would not have our hands bound here *BEGGING* companies to take our money!
_Modified by gdoggmoney at 6:56 AM 7-22-2008_

_Modified by gdoggmoney at 6:57 AM 7-22-2008_

Just to mention a difference in communites.... Look at hondata. If we had something like that, we would not be stuck buying maps. That's a difference between the VW community and the Honda community. 
Could we ever get something like that? If I were an EE, I would certainly be chasing this down.


_Modified by gdoggmoney at 7:01 AM 7-22-2008_


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

wow rant... lol but i agree 100% no warranty here not for a long time...
*Ok Boostin can not make a post a poll. So lets just start a petition in this thread, i will add it to the OP if i miss your name just PM and let me know. *


_Modified by theswoleguy at 11:15 AM 7-22-2008_


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_wow rant... lol but i agree 100% no warranty here not for a long time...
*Ok Boostin can not make a post a poll. So lets just start a petition in this thread, i will add it to the OP if i miss your name just PM and let me know. *

_Modified by theswoleguy at 11:15 AM 7-22-2008_

Sorry but I had to rant. I'm really jealous of the honda folk. It seems like people crack the ecu's immediately or make great replacements.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_
Sorry but I had to rant. I'm really jealous of the honda folk. It seems like people crack the ecu's immediately or make great replacements.

indeed indeed AEM even makes that ecu for them as well as SRT and another platform. Then GM has the HP tuners which is laptop based for factory ECU


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
indeed indeed AEM even makes that ecu for them as well as SRT and another platform. Then GM has the HP tuners which is laptop based for factory ECU


GM also has LS1 edit I think it is called, where it's pretty much like converting the factory ECU to standalone, or damn near it.


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

buy a standalone and you can do what you want. currently I run E85 with 1000cc injectors at 3 bar, managed by standalone.
this is in a MKII and the only thing I changed to run E85 is the factory high pressure pump.
the intank pump and the fuel supply line is stock.
the high pressure pump was changed to a GS392 Walbro inline. there are small pieces of rubber tubing in places which I inspect often and no signs of rot after 6 months. 
if you had a chip that ran well with 630's on 93 and you wanted to run E85 now, get fuel injectors that are 30-35% larger and use E85. 
or you could keep your setup the same, then your 630 won't be enough injector for E85, so you could add another set with an AIC and you can program them to fuel when you need it.


_Modified by Stroked1.8t at 1:04 PM 7-22-2008_


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stroked1.8t* »_buy a standalone and you can do what you want. currently I run E85 with 1000cc injectors at 3 bar, managed by standalone.
this is in a MKII and the only thing I changed to run E85 is the factory high pressure pump. the intank pump, fuel supply line is stock, the high pressure pump was changed to a GS392 Walbro inline. there are small pieces of rubber tubing in places which I inspect often and no signs of rot after 6 months. 
if you had a chip that ran well with 630's on 93 and you wanted to run E85 now, get fuel injectors that are 30-35% larger and use E85. 
or you could keep your setup the same, then your 630 won't be enough injector for E85, so you could add another set with an AIC and you can program them to fuel when you need it.

o that we agree! its all possible on stand alone, problem is most of us do not want to go this route, due to emissions and what not and would like software that could do both, tune a file for 630s that is more then enough fuel that way you can switch over to E85 and run an E85 file. Essentially like i do but not really. I am on Apr 93 and 100, i run 100 all day long every day if i go back to 93 i just put it in 93 mode. but it would be nice if that 93 file was correctly tuned to run the 630s and this way when i flip to 100 it would run the E85. This way you could flip between the two more efficiently, were if i go to 93 i am a wee rich on 630s, and k03 on apr 93 even with the Vr maf, i was fine on the 440s but 630s is a lot of fuel.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
o that we agree! its all possible on stand alone, problem is most of us do not want to go this route, due to emissions and what not and would like software that could do both, tune a file for 630s that is more then enough fuel that way you can switch over to E85 and run an E85 file. Essentially like i do but not really. I am on Apr 93 and 100, i run 100 all day long every day if i go back to 93 i just put it in 93 mode. but it would be nice if that 93 file was correctly tuned to run the 630s and this way when i flip to 100 it would run the E85. This way you could flip between the two more efficiently, were if i go to 93 i am a wee rich on 630s, and k03 on apr 93 even with the Vr maf, i was fine on the 440s but 630s is a lot of fuel.


This is exactly it. I would love to see what happens when they plug into my OBD2 port and get nothing.


----------



## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

I would love to see the software development as a race gas alternative.
*BUT*
"E85 is fly by night fuel. It'll be gone in a year or two just like in the 70s with the Carter administration. It is a reaction to a hyped up issue." <----- If my statement is true?
....then why would any company smaller than GM waste their time developing anything for the car.
Maybe it won't be true, but the E85 ads are gone in most of the country and I don't here about flex fuel cars in the main stream much...


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (hypothetical)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hypothetical* »_I would love to see the software development as a race gas alternative.
*BUT*
"E85 is fly by night fuel. It'll be gone in a year or two just like in the 70s with the Carter administration. It is a reaction to a hyped up issue." <----- If my statement is true?
....then why would any company smaller than GM waste their time developing anything for the car.
Maybe it won't be true, but the E85 ads are gone in most of the country and I don't here about flex fuel cars in the main stream much...


Not really. A lot of people into racing have adopted E85.
E85 may not end up as a mainstream fuel, but for racing it will always be around now.
I mean christ, 105 octane that cheap with a 30% mileage cut? Sign me the hell up. There are series of racing that run E85 specifically now.
Oil may be a hyped up issue -- but oil prices and middle east tension are not. 
I'm never going back to straight 93 if I can help it.


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

well don't switch back and forth, pick a fuel and use only that fuel.
and I doubt you were the only K03 with 630's.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hypothetical* »_I would love to see the software development as a race gas alternative.
*BUT*
"E85 is fly by night fuel. It'll be gone in a year or two just like in the 70s with the Carter administration. It is a reaction to a hyped up issue." <----- If my statement is true?
....then why would any company smaller than GM waste their time developing anything for the car.
Maybe it won't be true, but the E85 ads are gone in most of the country and I don't here about flex fuel cars in the main stream much...

i agree to this and just hoping its not, in all seriousness to what you said, remember gasahol (sp) in the muscle car era? I too feel its a gimmick, even the flex fuel vehicles designed to run it drop serious gas mileage when going to FFV. A surbarban goes from 22hwy to 12 on E85









_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_

Not really. A lot of people into racing have adopted E85.
E85 may not end up as a mainstream fuel, but for racing it will always be around now.
I mean christ, 105 octane that cheap with a 30% mileage cut? Sign me the hell up. There are series of racing that run E85 specifically now.
Oil may be a hyped up issue -- but oil prices and middle east tension are not. 
I'm never going back to straight 93 if I can help it.

agreed too but not sure if a refinery or one that makes race gas will step up to making it if it falls off the face of the earth, i enjoy it but trust me when i can slap my BT on and go back to 93 i will. I miss not having to fill up as often its just an inconvience to run to the E85 station all the time only and around atlanta you have to travel most times to get places and to run back to your E85 station can make you a lil on fumes

_Quote, originally posted by *Stroked1.8t* »_well don't switch back and forth, pick a fuel and use only that fuel.
and I doubt you were the only K03 with 630's. 

Once again I miss not having to fill up as often its just an inconvience to run to the E85 station all the time only and around atlanta you have to travel most times to get places and to run back to your E85 station can make you a lil on fumes, but i do suck it up and enjoy the ko3 on E85 if ihave to go on a trip to florida though theres not enough E85 on the way... looked already, but thanks. 
Pretty sure the ONLY ko3 on 630s right now if not one of no more then 5 but until someone else comes on here and says hey i have 630s and ko3 too then ill change it, unless its you then i will just say you are a copy cat







even 02vw1.8t didnt run 630s on stock turbo when he ran E85


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stroked1.8t* »_no I don't run those injectors, but I did run them with a stock turbo about a year ago on E85. so you are not the first, nor was I.

either way, thanks for the support and posting up useful information about it when you did it


_Modified by theswoleguy at 5:09 PM 7-23-2008_


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

I have been running 75% E85 and 25% 93 on 3 bar for about 1 month, everything ran fine, it pulled ALOT harder and I got 280 miles to a tank.
ABout 3 weeks ago I swapped in a 4 bar everything is still the same except the gas mileage dropped to about 230-240 a tank.
BTW 380cc injectors


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (BluishGreen1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluishGreen1.8T* »_I have been running 75% E85 and 25% 93 on 3 bar for about 1 month, everything ran fine, it pulled ALOT harder and I got 280 miles to a tank.
ABout 3 weeks ago I swapped in a 4 bar everything is still the same except the gas mileage dropped to about 230-240 a tank.
BTW 380cc injectors


What is your setup again?


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

K04
380's at 4bar
GIAC K04 software
W/M injection


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (BluishGreen1.8T)*

o man i bet your IDC is through the roof


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

I think the last week i was on the 3 bar i tried a full tank of E85, it didnt like it on startup(little rough), but after that it ran like a champ.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (BluishGreen1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluishGreen1.8T* »_I think the last week i was on the 3 bar i tried a full tank of E85, it didnt like it on startup(little rough), but after that it ran like a champ.

yea i get those every morning, either immidiately dies or she is kind of like a grumpy old person, spittin and sputtering then will idle up, the whole way out my neighborhood though is about .25 mile down hill and man you should hear me coasting in 1st down it (speed limit is 14, yes 14) blap blap blap blap like the whole way down it lol.
Since i get up when its cooler inthe mornings i will start trying to play with warm up and start up fuel trims and see if i can get her to start up better.


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

yeah mine did that when I ran it 100% E85, it was only on startup like you said sometimes it would die or just pop for a little bit but by the time i got to the main road .5 miles it was good to go. My speed limit is 12mph on my street. lol


----------



## methodicalmayhem (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (BluishGreen1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluishGreen1.8T* »_K04
380's at 4bar
GIAC K04 software
W/M injection

Bump the injectors up to 415's to compensate for the increased fuel demand and you will be amazed at the difference. I only say this because I have the same set up minus the W/M injection.

_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_Since i get up when its cooler inthe mornings i will start trying to play with warm up and start up fuel trims and see if i can get her to start up better.

I am surprised you have not done this already. I have the start up and warm up trims set and have no issues in the morning unless its the middle of winter.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

lol wtf is it with the strange ass speed limit numbers... OK good news, i might be able to go to the dyno tonight... Granted its like 60degrees warmer then when i went and put down 246 / 311 so even if i hit that i am kinda excited, but these runs will be done with NONE, 0, zilch, nada WAI. I will do as many runs as they let me and keep adding timing as i can


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*FV-QR*

You should still run the wai...it's worth 7whp just from cooling down iats....without touching timing.


----------



## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_

GM also has LS1 edit I think it is called, where it's pretty much like converting the factory ECU to standalone, or damn near it.

hondata sells the k-pro for the K20/K24 cars that gives you block by block control over total ECU function. but retains factory sensors and even is obd compliant. genius really.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_OK good news, i might be able to go to the dyno tonight... 








Rods are calling.


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_







Rods are calling.









haha good call
I havent touched my timing since i started running E85 btw.


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

*Re: (methodicalmayhem)*



methodicalmayhem said:


> Bump the injectors up to 415's to compensate for the increased fuel demand and you will be amazed at the difference. I only say this because I have the same set up minus the W/M injection.
> 
> 
> > really like a definite notciable difference, even though you dont have W/M???


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_







Rods are calling.









no you guys dont understand adam knows something rest of you dont as of yesterday lol
Well here you guys go. No water meth straight E85 vs my last dyno: Racegas, fully cranked gate and WM @ 246 / 311 btw it was like 42* (3rd gear)
This run also is a newer but used ko3 vs my last dyno, the WG is not cranked down all the way ( about 5 turns left), stil N75 and 90*, 4th gear.
After concideration i might not redyno with a MBC, out of respect for the great SAVwKO, and his write up for maxing a Ko3 and putting down 258 and 322 (gotcha on torque bitch







) i do think it would be possible w/ a mbc but with the torque i am generating i fear for my rods.
The logs have been emailed to adam, bc i am to lazy to make them and i had to be at work this morning at 6 instead of 8.
250.3 and 329.3










LoL end of this video you can hear them talking about the fireball that came out the exhaust and they hope i didnt scorch the car behind mine.

Dont hate on this guy, he put down some decent power 246 and a table top 215 tq. Custom tune, stage 2 pulley and header.




_Modified by theswoleguy at 10:51 AM 7-25-2008_


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*FV-QR*

AAAARRRRGHHH!!!! You would have broken the record if you used 100% meth just to cool iats! DAMNIT!!


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_AAAARRRRGHHH!!!! You would have broken the record if you used 100% meth just to cool iats! DAMNIT!!









bah i probably wouldve broke it i cranked my gate closed or just used a MBC lol. Everyone wanted a base run no gimmicks. 630s, VR maf, APR 100, and all E85


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*

so what are you spiking then? stock n75? I'm assuming you've vtuned a large spike in there somewhere...my giac cuts the fun off at 21psi.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_so what are you spiking then? stock n75? I'm assuming you've vtuned a large spike in there somewhere...my giac cuts the fun off at 21psi.

30lbs lol 4.7v diode, no vtune, wont work on my apr chip bc i have it souldered in. LARGE SPIKE







where i dont see a spike











_Modified by theswoleguy at 8:46 AM 7-25-2008_


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*

Got your text this morning. You said 324 son.







Good job.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_Got your text this morning. You said 324 son.







Good job.









Swoleguy, the irony of it all is that if you don't defeat sav..I will. Using the parts purchased from him.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_Got your text this morning. You said 324 son.







Good job.








 yea my bad lol short term memory wasnt workign last night, saw the dyno again i was like oops. lol

_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
Swoleguy, the irony of it all is that if you don't defeat sav..I will. Using the parts purchased from him.









yea but beat my torque







329.3


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_ yea my bad lol short term memory wasnt workign last night, saw the dyno again i was like oops. lol
yea but beat my torque







329.3

No thanks man, you can keep that record all to yourself.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
No thanks man, you can keep that record all to yourself.
















lol can you see the clutch slipping in the torque spike lol. ECS Stage 1.







Next time i will just hook up my WG to the vacuum nipple in the tip. and dyno like that and no N75 lol. 
Vaccuum from the intake pulling the WG closed and no boost reference to blow it open


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*FV-QR*

I think the largest difference between your and sav's dyno run is that you're making that kind of power on a daily basis, whereas sav pulled out all the stops with nitromethane, some race gas etc. Your number technically hold a bit more meaning, because it isn't just an arbitrary number...but something that you can run all day long if you have the balls. Kudos to you bro. One small step for the ko3, one giant leap for the 1.8t.


_Modified by 20aeman at 6:06 AM 7-25-2008_


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_I think the largest difference between your and sav's dyno run is that you're making that kind of power on a daily basis, whereas sav pulled out all the stops with nitromethane, some race gas etc. Your number technically hold a bit more meaning, because it isn't just an arbitrary number...but something that you can run all day long if you have the balls. 

pfft i drove it home like that, lol +9* on apr 100, the W/M would have put me over the top easy. i was sweating a rod or two, seriously


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*

stop tinkering with the baby turbo already.....








got your text.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_stop tinkering with the baby turbo already.....








got your text.

bah need software then on goes the 50trim. Then when adam isnt busy he needs to help me do rods.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
bah need software then on goes the 50trim. Then when adam isnt busy he needs to help me do rods.

Why not sooner than later?


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Why not sooner than later?









lol sure
talked to that dude at dynolab yesterday about you, all he could say is damn everytime he comes that boy puts down some sick numbers out of one of these


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
lol sure
talked to that dude at dynolab yesterday about you, all he could say is damn everytime he comes that boy puts down some sick numbers out of one of these

Haha, Arthur is cool. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

you got my email with the logs right?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_you got my email with the logs right?

Yeah yeah, impatient? lol Will post them in a few min.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Yeah yeah, impatient? lol Will post them in a few min. 

o naw i just wasnt sure if that was the right email address or if i emailed them to someone else lol.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

























Next time, how about 031 and 011?


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_ Next time, how about 031 and 011?









answer your phone next time







i called you and text you like two times, SAVwKO as well. Everyone was ghost.
Man those timing graphs make the rides at 6flags look like 1 flag.







probably the diode pissing the ecu off, should be better on the uni 630 file. What you think adam? 
O anyway to overlay the 3 timing lines? Man i tried to run the bitch out as far as she would go, slow ass vag com, i was running her to the rev limit
Man i dont think the stock cams can do 35* 
Water meth could have cooled those CFs. 90% sure it was from heat.


_Modified by theswoleguy at 11:02 AM 7-25-2008_


----------



## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

HELL YEAH!

good job brotha


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re:*


----------



## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
No thanks man, you can keep that record all to yourself.
















So has anyone determined what the issue is with cold start on E85. Does it have to do with the ecu trying to do rapid cat heat up and assuming flow numbers/mixtures consitant with normal gas?


----------



## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (BlueSleeper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlueSleeper* »_
So has anyone determined what the issue is with cold start on E85. Does it have to do with the ecu trying to do rapid cat heat up and assuming flow numbers/mixtures consitant with normal gas?

Found some info
"Ethanol has a vaporization temperature approximately 56 degrees Fahrenheit. When the outside temperature drops below 56, a cold start feature will turn on but only during the initial starting cycle. It will add extra fuel during the starting cycle to help increase the vaporization potential. The engine will resume normal operations after 30-40 seconds of engine run time."
So that explains some of the cold start issues, too cold to vaporize enough fuel to easily ignite it. So tweaking the cold start enrichment a good amount should clean up some starting issues. Can anyone test that and see if it helps? My car is in the shop under the knife or I would test it myself.


----------



## methodicalmayhem (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (BlueSleeper)*

OP great numbers from your set up. That is still one of the few things I need to do with mine to see where I am at HP wise.

_Quote, originally posted by *BluishGreen1.8T* »_really like a definite notciable difference, even though you dont have W/M???

I wouldn't say extremely noticeable. More to the point is why max out the 380's and their flow when you can jump to the 415's and have room to grow?

_Quote, originally posted by *BlueSleeper* »_So that explains some of the cold start issues, too cold to vaporize enough fuel to easily ignite it. So tweaking the cold start enrichment a good amount should clean up some starting issues. Can anyone test that and see if it helps? My car is in the shop under the knife or I would test it myself.

Here are the advances made on my car for the start up issue:
fuel enrichment on start up: 114.844%
fuel enrichment on warm up: 104.688%
With those settings I have absolutely NO problems starting my car unless it is the dead of winter (I am in Colorado so it can be in the low teens at that time). In the dead of winter no matter how far you advance start up/warm up you will always have to turn the key a few times, E85 hates the cold. And if you advance those two settings too far I can almost garuantee that you will flood the engine in the process.


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

Awesome numbers man.
could you PM me a list of your mods and tweaks??
RE: methodicalmayhem
wouldnt it just make more sense to upgrade to 580s or even 630s pending future plans? not to put you down or anything but i am just asking??? also how did you tweak your fuel trims (what program??)


----------



## heuer21 (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: (BluishGreen1.8T)*

There are only a couple of E85 stations in Indianapolis. I am so glad we dont have emissions standards.
I do have a question, seems like all the numbers work and it performs, but what about gas mileage? I heard E85 gas mileage sucks.


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

*Re: (heuer21)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heuer21* »_There are only a couple of E85 stations in Indianapolis. I am so glad we dont have emissions standards.
I do have a question, seems like all the numbers work and it performs, but what about gas mileage? I heard E85 gas mileage sucks. 


on a 3bar i got 270-280 a tank
on 4bar i am down to about 230-240
so whenever i do long trips i pop the 3bar in


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
answer your phone next time







i called you and text you like two times, SAVwKO as well. Everyone was ghost.
Man those timing graphs make the rides at 6flags look like 1 flag.







probably the diode pissing the ecu off, should be better on the uni 630 file. What you think adam? 
O anyway to overlay the 3 timing lines? Man i tried to run the bitch out as far as she would go, slow ass vag com, i was running her to the rev limit
Man i dont think the stock cams can do 35* 
Water meth could have cooled those CFs. 90% sure it was from heat.

_Modified by theswoleguy at 11:02 AM 7-25-2008_

BTW i have an 02M tranny with your name on it WHEN you blow that 02j.


----------



## methodicalmayhem (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (BluishGreen1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluishGreen1.8T* »_RE: methodicalmayhem
wouldnt it just make more sense to upgrade to 580s or even 630s pending future plans? not to put you down or anything but i am just asking??? also how did you tweak your fuel trims (what program??)

Very true, it would make a lot more sense to go with those pending your future plans. I was more focused on using the 415's on a daily basis without going bigger.
To tweak the trims you can use either Lemmiwinks or Unisettings.


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

yeah i am planning on going BT this winter, so i figure ill just go all out instead of inching my way up there.
I figured it would be lemmiwinks but i wasnt 100% sure thanks.


----------



## methodicalmayhem (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (BluishGreen1.8T)*

I'd go with Unisettings as it's a more updated version with a few extra features over LW


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

so whatcha guys think lol


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

its still a K03, thats what I think,


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

This is not a k03s?
I think that is ****ing ridiculous for a k03. You sir are inspiration.
A k03s with some flow work should do surprisingly better. I now need to get off my ass and get some injectors so I can do some APR 100 octane E85 antics.
I am curious to see where I end up, with a high flow manifold and the giant amount of material I removed from my k03s exhaust housing and the increase in flow. I think I may take some audio/video of my car tonight.


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

that is another I have never even thought of with my K04 is a hi-flow exhaust manifold. lol
i am still kickin it stock styles!!!!
I also dont have my WG cranked at all, i am sure that helps out the situation of high HP numbers, but isnt too good for the snail!








i could probably put down so nice numbers if i tuned it but i honestly dont have the time to run a bunch of logs on the car. 2 jobs










_Modified by BluishGreen1.8T at 7:09 PM 7-26-2008_


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (BluishGreen1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stroked1.8t* »_its still a K03, thats what I think,
 indeed like a bottle rocket, impressive at first but fizzles







wait till i get rods and the 50trim









_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_This is not a k03s?
I think that is ****ing ridiculous for a k03. You sir are inspiration.
A k03s with some flow work should do surprisingly better. I now need to get off my ass and get some injectors so I can do some APR 100 octane E85 antics.
I am curious to see where I end up, with a high flow manifold and the giant amount of material I removed from my k03s exhaust housing and the increase in flow. I think I may take some audio/video of my car tonight. 

watch your rods seriously dude i am there dude in rod bending territory 

_Quote, originally posted by *BluishGreen1.8T* »_that is another I have never even thought of with my K04 is a hi-flow exhaust manifold. lol
i am still kickin it stock styles!!!!
I also dont have my WG cranked at all, i am sure that helps out the situation of high HP numbers, but isnt too good for the snail!








i could probably put down so nice numbers if i tuned it but i honestly dont have the time to run a bunch of logs on the car. 2 jobs









_Modified by BluishGreen1.8T at 7:09 PM 7-26-2008_

yea once again rods will be even more your issue.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_
BTW i have an 02M tranny with your name on it WHEN you blow that 02j.

most def lol


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

yeah IE will be getting a call if i decide to go ALL out with this before I go BT. why not make sure I have good rods first, right? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
And yeah you are walking in a minefield with that torque!!!!!


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

lol if i take the motor apart, i am NOT putting a stock turbo back on when i have all the parts for my 50trim around the corner in the garage


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

yeah i am in the same boat, the shell is going of in the winter to be sprayed and stored and the motor is going into either a MK2 or MK1 then in the transfer back to the MK4 it will be rebuilt.


----------



## C3Koh4 (Nov 8, 2006)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

just a little teasing, but adam and i got together and tried a 630 ecu. It quasi works, need to get my boost gauge back in the car. Just dont have boost lol, 5lbs WG boost so that leads us to...
The big issue
We need a MBC though anyone got one to loan for testing purposes, in or around Alabama or GA, unless someone wants to mail me one to use for testing.


_Modified by theswoleguy at 7:15 PM 8-2-2008_


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

i would mail you mine because I am all about this, but it is a dual stage and is currently in use.
SOMEONE GET THIS MAN A MBC ASAP!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

Crank the WG or un-plug it


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I would have sent your mine over in a heart beat if it wasn't wired up right now.







With this kinda power for 230 bucks for injectors I'll do it. I heard though that theres some issues with blowing seals? But this guy really didn't seem to know what he was talking about, because of this vague statment.... what seals and where ? ya know. I'm just worried about running the setup with this kinda torque if only there was a way to supress it


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Budsdubbin)*

Well, this is why you don't run an N75 and a diode with no boost gauge. Lol. More to come but for those interested, our 630cc file seems to adapt pretty well to E85. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Well, this is why you don't run an N75 and a diode with no boost gauge. Lol. More to come but for those interested, our 630cc file seems to adapt pretty well to E85. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









now no teasing the people adam its not nice...


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

After some driving our 630cc software adapted nicely to E85. That's all for now. lol


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

o btw if you get the 630 file guys remember the redline limit has been moved, adam and i went tearing down an on ramp loggin and i was just going to run the gear all the way out to rev limit, needless to say when the needle went to 7500 i was like wtf adam; he looks at me and goes its just a ko3 josh, not the t3, what you doing way up there. we just had a







together after that... oops


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

one question though I've heard that e85 is a extremly dirty fuel. Considering what its made out of I could only imagine what your head will look when you pull it.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (Budsdubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Budsdubbin* »_one question though I've heard that e85 is a extremly dirty fuel. Considering what its made out of I could only imagine what your head will look when you pull it.

looks like its been cleaned with alcohol







smells nice too, kinda sweet like race gas


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Budsdubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Budsdubbin* »_one question though I've heard that e85 is a extremly dirty fuel. Considering what its made out of I could only imagine what your head will look when you pull it.

Uh, well we're all doomed b/c it's harder and harder to find a gas station who's gas doesn't already contain 10% ethanol. You heard wrong.


----------



## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Ethanol is Dürty, look at the HP/Tq numbers beatch!!!!


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (hypothetical)*

ethanol is some crazy knock resistant fuel, downright nasty.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Uh, well we're all doomed b/c it's harder and harder to find a gas station who's gas doesn't already contain 10% ethanol. You heard wrong. 

It was just a question, at the time it seemed possible because of where the fuels derived from.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

K this weekend is it. I am heading up to grab some genesis injectors from USRT.
I'm going to try and stay at 3bar rail pressure, to avoid putting in another fuel pump to increase flow.
Any suggestions?


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*FV-QR*

I just got the 630s, walbro, and vr maf in...only to find that the stupid vag cable isn't working for some reason. Neither with vagcom or unisettings....hopefully it's just a blown fuse, cause I need this biatch running today.
It says that on vagcom when I test it that it isn't plugged into the car...when it clearly is! The light on the vag is green as well...I'm hoping it's my laptop (macbook with dualboot)or a fuse...I'll update in a couple of hours. 
Quick question: When I turn the key onto the on position and the pumps prime...does it cycle through gasoline at all? I mean, is some of the gas returned back to the tank? If so, it would be an ideal way for me to get a decent mixture to where I feel comfortable starting the car. I tried starting it...ran like poop so I turned it off immediately.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

clear the ecu before starting it up on straight E85. I filled up, from mixing it 50/50, 100% then drove home 1 mile no boost, swapped injectors in and fuel pump, cleared ECU, tba, then fired her up straight no issues


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

by clearing the ecu, do you mean resetting the codes? or is there another way?
So far, I've cleared codes and done a tba...no dice, even with 15 percent adapted out.


_Modified by 20aeman at 1:55 PM 8-14-2008_


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*

yes lol like with vag com


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*FV-QR*

How? Walk me through it please.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Check your IMs swole, I get a feeling you have a pop up blocker or something


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Okay, here is the deal:
At -25 percent primary fuel tweak, correction factors are:
Idle 0, partial throttle -8%
So it's definitely possible to run 630s, VR maf, and a non bt ecu with regular gas. (the thing you have to fine tune and worry about mostly are startup/warmup fuel enrichment. I just did -25 on both, and she started..just rough...need more fine tuning.
Was headed over to the e85 station when the bloody laptop's battery died, so as soon as it's full charged, I'll fill it all up with e85.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*

Finally filled up with e85..primary fuel tweak is -5% which lands me at 
0% idle
-2% partial throttle
Advanced timing 6.75 degrees while not accounting for the VR maf...so lets say:
VR maf= +4 degrees 
unisettings=+6.75 degrees
total of 10.75 degrees of more timing...here is the kicker: Little (<2-3) to no timing pull.
Car feels like a freight train...I'm contemplating cranking the wastegate some more. 
Also would like to note that I disconnected the water/meth. So this is just on e85.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_Finally filled up with e85..primary fuel tweak is -5% which lands me at 
0% idle
-2% partial throttle
Advanced timing 6.75 degrees while not accounting for the VR maf...so lets say:
VR maf= +4 degrees 
unisettings=+6.75 degrees
total of 10.75 degrees of more timing...here is the kicker: Little (<2-3) to no timing pull.
Car feels like a freight train...I'm contemplating cranking the wastegate some more. 
Also would like to note that I disconnected the water/meth. So this is just on e85. 

Typical results. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I don't think he's logged it but same thing swole/Josh has been seeing, confirmed with Unitronic stage 2 recently as well as his original APR.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Typical results. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I don't think he's logged it but same thing swole/Josh has been seeing, confirmed with Unitronic stage 2 recently as well as his original APR.









Yep. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You also have to figure that I was pulling 7-8 degrees on pump gas+ water/meth near redline, so it's essentially 18+ degrees of timing near redline. Incredibly fast. I never thought a ko3 would be this quick on the highway.








Only real issues are:
1. Absolutely Terrible gas mileage...nearly to a half a tank and I've only driven maybe 80 miles (I have been hammering it though and doing lots of logging.)
2. Throttle hang..when I let off the gas, it's like the motor practically doesn't engine brake. I'm assuming it has to do with the torque idle offset which I put at 1 or 2...i forget. I'll reset that, and do a tba and see how it runs.
I think if I adjust my driving style, I can get reasonable gas mileage. No need to rev past 2500..makes good power off of idle...fells like an NA v6 as opposed to a low displacement turbo 4 with a heavy ass flywheel.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Typical results. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I don't think he's logged it but same thing swole/Josh has been seeing, confirmed with Unitronic stage 2 recently as well as his original APR.









no logging but yes similar 

_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
Yep. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You also have to figure that I was pulling 7-8 degrees on pump gas+ water/meth near redline, so it's essentially 18+ degrees of timing near redline. Incredibly fast. I never thought a ko3 would be this quick on the highway.








Only real issues are:
1. Absolutely Terrible gas mileage...nearly to a half a tank and I've only driven maybe 80 miles (I have been hammering it though and doing lots of logging.)
2. Throttle hang..when I let off the gas, it's like the motor practically doesn't engine brake. I'm assuming it has to do with the torque idle offset which I put at 1 or 2...i forget. I'll reset that, and do a tba and see how it runs.
I think if I adjust my driving style, I can get reasonable gas mileage. No need to rev past 2500..makes good power off of idle...fells like an NA v6 as opposed to a low displacement turbo 4 with a heavy ass flywheel.

Yes gas mileage blows i get about 150 to half now the most a tank i have gotten was 270, average 250. I have throttle hang too occasionally about 1500 for a sec or few then itll fall. but shes quick, i actually dare i say this, like Unitronics tweaked out 100 times better then the APR software. i dont get part throttle limp either where i was occasionally on apr with the vr maf. i have not added timing or anything on this ecu, but i can do it, just its adam's girlfriend's ecu lol and i have to give it back when my 630 ecu comes so really didnt mess with it at all other then clear codes.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Well guys, today I was supposed to be putting in 415cc injectors with a 3.5bar and start running full E85.
But this all happened:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3982987








I may get to it this weekend, or not. Still up in the air since family > *
If I can manage to get to it I will be posting but it's not looking likely!


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

read that before it was posted here good luck man!


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_Okay, here is the deal:
At -25 percent primary fuel tweak, correction factors are:
Idle 0, partial throttle -8%
So it's definitely possible to run 630s, VR maf, and a non bt ecu with regular gas. (the thing you have to fine tune and worry about mostly are startup/warmup fuel enrichment. I just did -25 on both, and she started..just rough...need more fine tuning.
Was headed over to the e85 station when the bloody laptop's battery died, so as soon as it's full charged, I'll fill it all up with e85.

This is good to know. This means I can just crank the fuel down, select the 93 octane program and let the wife drive it around so she can put 93 in as she pleases. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_
This is good to know. This means I can just crank the fuel down, select the 93 octane program and let the wife drive it around so she can put 93 in as she pleases. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

You can definitely do it..it's gonna take some time and effort to get the warmup/startup fuel enrichment perfect though...


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Ok so I went to the station after installing my injectors with my usual 5 gallon mix in a full tank of 93.
I put 8 gallons of E85 into this. I cranked my fuel primary fuel tweak from -30% on 415CC injectors at 3.5 bar rail to -7.25% with the new mix.
I'm running around on the 93 octane program still, not tempting fate yet until I get more logging done, and the basic fuel situated will I move the the 100 octane.
I watched my long term fuel trim after some light driving and adaption to even out at -8% and my short term around 5. 
The equivalence was .9-1 so I am doing good as far as AFR's. 
I'm guessing I need to up my accel pulse and will be doing that now and driving








Full moon! 

Family drama has subsided, things are looking good here and more to come.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Wow this car rips on a stock turbo.
I'm running 3 degrees of timing advance, i adjusted out my wastegate, Upped the accel pulse to 110%
Even with the old 40% mix earlier today, the new injectors cranked back 30% at 3.5bar rail drove better than the old stock injectors at 4bar.
The car was all over much happier, especially once full of e85. 
I had the hang on decel, so I leaned out my decel fuel to about 95% and that cured it.
I have a lot more to go on the wastegate, especially since I ported it







and I am not even running the 100 octane program yet. 
This is going to be fun.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Hmmm, I'm gonna have to try lowering the decel fuel...see if that helps with the throttle hang. Haven't had an opportunity to log the damn thing.
I am getting semi rough starts though when the car is cold. I'll have to richen startup, and lean up decel.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_Hmmm, I'm gonna have to try lowering the decel fuel...see if that helps with the throttle hang. Haven't had an opportunity to log the damn thing.
I am getting semi rough starts though when the car is cold. I'll have to richen startup, and lean up decel. 

Do it. My car sounded like crap when I started it this morning, I am going to have to up the cold start enrichment I believe as well. Warmup enrichment too I think, since it was running kind of ****ty cold.
I was running around just in vacuum while it was cold feeling it out this morning.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (gdoggmoney)*

sorry guys i left you, went 50trim this weekend


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*

You son of a bitch.








I'm gonna be stepping up to a 28r (or something similar) very soon.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_You son of a bitch.








I'm gonna be stepping up to a 28r (or something similar) very soon.

i know i am sorry lol but man ko3 + e85 = love, but nothing like a big turbo.


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_sorry guys i left you, went 50trim this weekend























FINALLY!!!!!!!!


----------



## petesell (May 7, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Andrew 16v* »_wow this is great man. Good luck can't waitto see your progress. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Quote, originally posted by *20V BUG* »_Oh I can't wait to see how this turns out.



_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_can't wait to see the results http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_sorry guys i left you, went 50trim this weekend


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (petesell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *petesell* »_











setup was already dyno'ed without meth.... 
but anyway hopfully we can get some e85 in western new york around the buffalo area so I can run it.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Budsdubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Budsdubbin* »_
setup was already dyno'ed without meth.... 
but anyway hopfully we can get some e85 in western new york around the buffalo area so I can run it.

indeed 25.3 and 329.3 now on the 50trim







god shes a blast a little laggy with the E85 still in lol spool is around 5k lol but theres even a slight lag on the ko3 **** just isnt as hot as 93. when adam gets my new ecu i will be delighted and get off unitronics stage 2 lol


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*

that was without the 630 file?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
indeed 25.3 and 329.3 now on the 50trim







god shes a blast a little laggy with the E85 still in lol spool is around 5k lol but theres even a slight lag on the ko3 **** just isnt as hot as 93. when adam gets my new ecu i will be delighted and get off unitronics stage 2 lol

Tomorrow my friend, tomorrow.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I noticed the little bit of lag with E85 as well.

I am thinking about leaning it out some more on the accell pulse to get more heat to spool.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Budsdubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Budsdubbin* »_that was without the 630 file?

yea on chip file not unitronics 630, i made 250.3 and 329.3


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

So I have one weird issue. I flashed my APR ecu with the following:
slot 1: stock
Slot 2: 91
Slot 3: 93
Slot 4: 100 octane
Now when I try to select a different program, my check engine light never flashes. My car also seems to hit 22psi. I am full of e85 currently but fear my car is stuck on the 100 octane program!








That could be disasterous if I have to fill up with regular. 
Anyone ever have this issue with APR stuff? I did not set a security code or anything


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Fixed my problem. APR programmer automatically gives you a security code length of 1? 
I just set it to 0 and this apparently disables the security code.
No big deal, I don't use my cruise to accel/decel anyways.
The car sounds mean just revving lightly in place on the 100 octane program. It really sounds different.
I drove it home under vacuum and retarded the timing -1.5 degrees to be safe while it adapts, and lessen the chance of blowing it up.
I'm running -3% on my main fuel tweak and 105% for the accel pump value.
So far so good, going to play with light throttle and super light boost on the way to work.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_Fixed my problem. APR programmer automatically gives you a security code length of 1? 
I just set it to 0 and this apparently disables the security code.
No big deal, I don't use my cruise to accel/decel anyways.
The car sounds mean just revving lightly in place on the 100 octane program. It really sounds different.
I drove it home under vacuum and retarded the timing -1.5 degrees to be safe while it adapts, and lessen the chance of blowing it up.
I'm running -3% on my main fuel tweak and 105% for the accel pump value.
So far so good, going to play with light throttle and super light boost on the way to work.

if you are on straight E85 100 octane is fine


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
if you are on straight E85 100 octane is fine

I currently am. Last fill was entirely E85, was at 1/2 tank today and added 5 gals of straight e85 out of my jug.
It sounds mean when it pops, I guess because it is adapting to it lol.
The car moves so much harder at 5-7psi with the A/C on than it ever has. I turned the A/C off felt brave and touched 10psi. Fun times.
I'm a little bit scared, so I am taking it easy all day today and on my way home from work tonight. No full throttle for a bit.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Holy christ this thing is fast. The car is adapting VERY nicely on the APR 100 octane program. 
It is ridiculous how hard it pulls at part throttle and half throttle. 
I can't wait to do some logging and start adding timing to this. 
The car under pulls more vacuum at idle on the 100 octane program running E85. I'm seeing almost 25 inches at any given time when warm witht eh a/c off, instead of the 20 I was used to on 93 octane with 93......
Strange, wonder what that means?


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

I have around 19, but I raised the vacuum and still have the idle offset at a higher value.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Update! 
Apparently at 130mph, on a private closed track, in 5th gear at WOT I did not shoot flames, but I was on fire hosing the pavement with my hidden 3" 42dd muffler shooting a purple and orange flame continuously the entire time at the very top of 5th gear.
I also discovered "at the track" that my friends 2001 S54 M coupe with software, intake and suspension can only get me a car at the VERY top of 5th. 
Otherwise I started pulling on him and held the fender lead.
In short E85 is totally epic.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Settings:
main fuel tweak 1%
accel tweak 111%
decel tweak 97%
timing: 1.5 degree advance
idle additive torque +1

Mods: APR silicon TIP
APR N1 recirc valve
Geneisis 415cc injectors at 3.5bar rail
Stock fuel pump
APR 100 octane program
Intake manifold spacer (phenolic)
Godspeed FMIC (smaller core)
Ported turbine housing
High flow cast iron"ebay" K flange manifold that is jet hot 2000 coated.
42DD 3" downpipe, no cat, and 3" catback.
I will be at the NGP dyno day this saturday.


_Modified by gdoggmoney at 8:39 PM 8-21-2008_


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Jeez, with a ported ko3, you might beat us all in terms of dyno numbers. I'll probably dyno mine in a week or two. Verrry naaaice.
Looks like I'm gonna have to sneak a 28r in there and pretend it's a ko3 then dyno


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_Settings:
main fuel tweak 1%
accel tweak 111%
decel tweak 97%
timing: 1.5 degree advance
idle additive torque +1

_Modified by gdoggmoney at 8:39 PM 8-21-2008_

Lemmiwinks settings?


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (BluishGreen1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluishGreen1.8T* »_
Lemmiwinks settings?


Correct!
Getting ready to head to dyno day @ NGP. Hopefully wife holds out. End term pregnancy fun with early contractions! I'll be like just less than an hour from home, and her parents are on call too. http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif 
Car feels good, and smooth. I need to do a TBA before heading up though.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I'm pretty happy. I think I have a nasty boost leak, and I have more to go timing and wastegate wise.
I put down 230whp, and 270ftlbs of torque.
I think I have more playing to do, but I must get my vag-com registered and logging first.
Notice the lack of torque, due to the highflow manifold and turbine porting. 
The curve is VERY nice too. I'm trying to get it scanned.











_Modified by gdoggmoney at 11:28 AM 8-23-2008_


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

yeah i finally might get to doing some logs next weekend, after running E85 for almost 2 months untweaked.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

A/F looks good but thats seems like a real jumpy power curve your ecm's probably cuting back timing asuming you have a boost leak.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (Budsdubbin)*

Yeah, I am trying to figure out what is going on. I was just logging vag-com stuff with the wife on my way to get our son from the grandparents.
Quick full throttle blast in 2nd, and another in third logged. Logged timing retard for all 4 cylinders, and lambda.
Have to look, trying to eat dinner and be family guy! Takes away from modding time.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

The jumpiness is probably the n75 oscillation aka "surging". With a cranked gate, you go over spec boost, then n75 lowers it, and it keeps happening over and over and over. Notice swoleguys curves are noticeably different (not necessarily better) with the diode.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_The jumpiness is probably the n75 oscillation aka "surging". With a cranked gate, you go over spec boost, then n75 lowers it, and it keeps happening over and over and over. Notice swoleguys curves are noticeably different (not necessarily better) with the diode. 

indeed but the dips in the begining of my runs with the 3k rpm and roughly 330ftlbs is the clutch slipping lol


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
indeed but the dips in the begining of my runs with the 3k rpm and roughly 330ftlbs is the clutch slipping lol


Can haz diode helps? I think I have at least 21whp hiding in here to get the k03s into 250whp territory without methanol injection!









Oh, no timing retard at all, 100 octane program and now 3 degrees of timing advance. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I also just filled up for 2.80$ a gallon here. YAY!
_Modified by gdoggmoney at 6:14 PM 8-25-2008_


_Modified by gdoggmoney at 6:14 PM 8-25-2008_


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_

Can haz diode helps? I think I have at least 21whp hiding in here to get the k03s into 250whp territory without methanol injection!









Oh, no timing retard at all, 100 octane program and now 3 degrees of timing advance. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I also just filled up for 2.80$ a gallon here. YAY!
_Modified by gdoggmoney at 6:14 PM 8-25-2008_

_Modified by gdoggmoney at 6:14 PM 8-25-2008_
 

arrrrgh YOU ASS! E85 IS 3.49 here. 
You would gain more power...but you'd also get an insane torque spike. I like your curve right now...it holds power to redline...with a diode, you'd make more peak power, but it would be around 5-5500rpm, your power would then proceed to freefall .








I've got to dyno my piece of crap soon.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_ 

arrrrgh YOU ASS! E85 IS 3.49 here. 
You would gain more power...but you'd also get an insane torque spike. I like your curve right now...it holds power to redline...with a diode, you'd make more peak power, but it would be around 5-5500rpm, your power would then proceed to freefall .








I've got to dyno my piece of crap soon.

No way. I am going to dyno it, and if anything I will put my boost limiting valve back onto the car. Needs diode!
I can control what it spikes to with that, and keep the wastegate shut for instant boost.
It's a bleed between the sides of the n75 that will control your spikes. 
Totally rad and good to keep your car in one piece.


_Modified by gdoggmoney at 10:15 AM 8-26-2008_


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

Fuel pump is officially dead. I'm sort of angry since I went with an inline...had I just gone with an intank, I wouldn't have had any issues. 
Was it the ethanols fault? Hmmm....I'm going to go with probably not. 
Driving near empty all the time, + clogged fuel filter, + 4 bar fpr....would probably kill a pump quicker. 
If it eats a new one...then I can blame ethanol all I want lol.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_Fuel pump is officially dead. I'm sort of angry since I went with an inline...had I just gone with an intank, I wouldn't have had any issues. 
Was it the ethanols fault? Hmmm....I'm going to go with probably not. 
Driving near empty all the time, + clogged fuel filter, + 4 bar fpr....would probably kill a pump quicker. 
If it eats a new one...then I can blame ethanol all I want lol.

naw i ran mine straight E85 for a while, doubt its the E85. Did you take out the factory intake?


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
naw i ran mine straight E85 for a while, doubt its the E85. Did you take out the factory intake?

Factory intake for the fuel pump? Nah, I didn't mess with it. So now I'm throwing a walbro 255 back there as well as a surge tank. Twin walbros should give me plenty of pressure...and will be cheap to replace, if it happens again.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

o hmmm i run my intake with the inline walbro. ran the factory one at 4bar, 380s on a mix for a while. Till i upgraded to the walbro but you should def have fuel with the twin walbros. just make sure you get that surge tank


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_o hmmm i run my intake with the inline walbro. ran the factory one at 4bar, 380s on a mix for a while. Till i upgraded to the walbro but you should def have fuel with the twin walbros. just make sure you get that surge tank

Fer shizzle.








I'm sort of tired of the gas mileage...I need a damn larger turbo. Hmmmm...a 3071R beckons me lol.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
Fer shizzle.








I'm sort of tired of the gas mileage...I need a damn larger turbo. Hmmmm...a 3071R beckons me lol.

infinityman has one for sale lol


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
infinityman has one for sale lol









I went back to gas today for a bit. I'm having to do running around for the wife's new 1.8T jetta and get parts, etc. I don't have time to run around to the E85 stations, but come this weekend I will be back on E85 and 100 octane in time for fun


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

Just filled up after getting 260 miles to a tank!!!!!!!!!!! wowsers!!!!! 75-25 mix e85-93oct


----------



## bzflag (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (2001S4NY)*

Nice looking graphs! Bet that's a fun ride. What kinds #s does the gt28 s4 in your sig put down on e85?


----------



## BluishGreen1.8T (Sep 2, 2006)

DAMN that is NICE!!!!!! 
I just got almost 300 miles to a tank!!!!!!!!
I dont know what is going on.
Oh btw my W/M sensor took a **** about 2 weeks ago, so i dont know if that is affecting it all or not. Also i am not babying the car by any means. i sees more high boost than low boost right now


----------



## 2001S4NY (Sep 11, 2006)

*Re: (bzflag)*

i never dynoed the GT car on E85, but it is a big difference, the car shaved 8 tenths of a second in 3rd gear on how fast it accelerates, also the torque down low has improved where there was lag


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (2001S4NY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2001S4NY* »_i never dynoed the GT car on E85, but it is a big difference, the car shaved 8 tenths of a second in 3rd gear on how fast it accelerates, also the torque down low has improved where there was lag

So you can custom tune ME7? 1.8ts, etc? If so, that would be awesome!


----------



## 2001S4NY (Sep 11, 2006)

yes i do, i can also do remote tuning if you like. Shoot me a contact


----------



## 2001S4NY (Sep 11, 2006)

anyone have any luck using OT-1 yet, im thinking of ordering it


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

nope no dice been sitting on one for months


----------



## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

Just wanted to throw a quick thumbs up to the SSP guys. I have witnessed their work and tuning and they are by far one of the best.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I figured out my oscillation I think. My maf was dirty from K&N oil.
I'm ditching my CAI and moving to a modified stock airbox. I'm sick of blowing MAF's or having to alcohol bathe them regularly after a few K&N cleanings.
After fridays cleaning the car was running rich and blowing up the extra fuel so bad that it was setting off car alarms and sounded like gunshots http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

Currently running back on 93 octane mafless, on the 93 program.
I am convinced these cars are fully capable of fueling and running doing speed density with a map and the wideband. In fact, I think they default to it when the MAF is blown and the MAF is more for emissions.
The MAF being unplugged has totally ended my oscillation issues.
I'm scared to run mafless on the 100 octane program though..... Maybe paranoid?










_Modified by gdoggmoney at 11:53 AM 9-11-2008_


----------



## dckeener (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (kc drifto)*

Has anyone changed the compression ratio with e85? Would this help at all? I've want to do rods soon and am wondering if higher/lower compression pistons while i'm there would make a difference?


----------



## CTS Turbo 1 (Oct 3, 2008)

*FV-QR*

you could run higher compression due to its octane rating


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Josh @ CTS Turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Josh @ CTS Turbo* »_you could run higher compression due to its octane rating

Who the F is Josh? Where is steroidguy? I mean swoleguy?


----------



## CTS Turbo 1 (Oct 3, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
Who the F is Josh? Where is steroidguy? I mean swoleguy?























rawr goes the vampire smiley


----------



## dckeener (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (dckeener)*

so will 440's be enough for straight e85 on stock turbo? I've got a set sitting around I'm really tempted to fire up the laptop and try this out!
What would 4bar and 440's be?


_Modified by dckeener at 1:33 PM 10-3-2008_


----------



## zooyork155 (Nov 10, 2003)

_Quote, originally posted by *kc drifto* »_you have to regap the plugs 2/3 to run e
you can also advance timing more because of octane
i'm getting the same mpg on e as gasoline in only 1 of my cars 87 16v scir
i've unplugged the knock sensor, cranked the dist all clockwise
turn the knob on my dash all the way down (like a short on the eng temp sensor to the jetronic means min. afr @ diff pres reg)
when i'm driving around town, under vacuum, the vacuum line to the ignition brain cranks timing way up because of the lack of molecules in the combustion chamber
i've hit 30 mpg @ 82 mph, 4400 rpms, both ways, 92 octane would of been 25mpg
everyone seems to agree that cooling system demands go down when switching to e so the btu thermal efficiency cannot be the same
if a gasoline engine is 37% eff, and a diesel engine is 50% eff, there's allot of room for improvement.
lets say by cranking my timing and compression to a point that would normally overheat a gas motor, i've "ethanol optimized" my car to get same mpg as "change 2 e85 .com" says about brazilian cars 30 years ago...
a diesel engine uses different technology to use 23:1 compression, no throttle body, and a fuel with a lower than gas flashpoint.
octane?
e85 has a lower flashpoint (race on e85 . com mentions colder plugs although you would think hotter)
WAY higher octane, allowing compression and timing squeeze (slower burning) that gas people are afraid off. 2 years on e! ahahahahahahah
could someone please quote me the article about the gm suv that got 24% less mileage, but hasn't tried e once please







so i can tell you how many vehicles, mowers and weed eaters i've tried it on and how compression directly affects those #'s 
i'm getting the same mpg on e as gas but my car is faster, colder and quieter







http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif 

So you're saying that by regapping your plugs and cranking the timing on your 16v you've achieved better consumption? 
Did you change anything else (injectors, FPR, etc.) to accomodate running solely E85?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (kc drifto)*

On a boosted motor, you're not going to get the same gas mileage ever.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_On a boosted motor, you're not going to get the same gas mileage ever. 

I can attest to this.


----------



## Buschwick (Feb 12, 2007)

Cool so E85 is a launch control too.
This stuff is fecking awesome.
Nice thread...definitly hardcore.
Sorry I know it's old.


_Modified by Buschwick at 12:26 AM 10-29-2008_


----------



## zooyork155 (Nov 10, 2003)

Could those that are running straight E85 and advancing timing post up some timing logs (block 003 or 010 would be ideal) and how much advance you've added?
It's great to hear that "the car feels like a raped ape" and all, but it would be even better to see some data.


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (zooyork155)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zooyork155* »_Could those that are running straight E85 and advancing timing post up some timing logs (block 003 or 010 would be ideal) and how much advance you've added?
It's great to hear that "the car feels like a raped ape" and all, but it would be even better to see some data.

Hmmm...I don't have a vag right now...but it was 28 BTDC @ redline with 0 timing pull. That's with a VR maf and +4 on lemmiwinks, giving you a total of +9ish degrees on timing. 
I had it at 6+ on lemmiwinks and it would pull 2-3 degrees, so I knocked it down a bit. 
This is with a nearly fully cranked wastegate. I have like 5-6 threads until it's completely shut.


----------



## zooyork155 (Nov 10, 2003)

Thanks for the reply. I was asking for logs to see how smooth the timing curves are.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

there are logs in this thread somewhere, a few,







@ you 20aeman, this thread didnt pop up in my watched anymore didnt mean to abandon it lol


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

i think everything should be on the first page, i tried to keep it in one location so people didnt have to sift through "x" pages


----------



## dckeener (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*

What is everyone paying for E85? the place down the street from me is charging 3.59 a gal. I want to fully convert my car but that price is ridiculous! They must think its gold or something


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (dckeener)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dckeener* »_What is everyone paying for E85? the place down the street from me is charging 3.59 a gal. I want to fully convert my car but that price is ridiculous! They must think its gold or something









$2.29 a gallon here. Only 2 stations in Miami.


----------



## dckeener (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (kc drifto)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kc drifto* »_1.81 about a week ago

See, if i could find it at this price i'd do it in a heartbeat. I found another place across town for $3.13 a gal which is still ridiculous. Premium is down to like $2.50. I guess I'll keep mixing for now.


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (dckeener)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dckeener* »_
See, if i could find it at this price i'd do it in a heartbeat. I found another place across town for $3.13 a gal which is still ridiculous. Premium is down to like $2.50. I guess I'll keep mixing for now.

Keep in mind, e85 is used much less than premium. They'll refill the premium tank more often (dropping the price). If they got the e85 for more they're not coming down until they sell it and get more.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*

I have a nice misfire or something under load decreasing it seems. 
I think it may be related to my lacking of resistors and sensors. I think I lost adaptive fuel trim and it's somehow affected when running E85.
My downpipe had a giant leak pre02, replaced it and fixed the leaks. Fixed a bunch of vacuum leaks, and the car runs 20x better but still acts funny on light/decreasing loads after boost hits.
Is this a valid possibility? 
I am running with no SAIC pump and get the code.
plz halp, want to go back to running proper on E85. New MAF, new intake air temp o-ring map o-ring, intake manifold gaskets, eliminated all excess vacuum lines, etc. 
Car runs great with the maf unplugged but also gets poor mileage and does not seem to pull as hard as when it rusn right with the maf plugged in


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Problem solved.
New problem, I had to drop 2 full turns off my wastegate to get rid of the fact that I am overflowing the stock MAF.
I tried getting the 3" maf in with my 415cc @ 3.5bar, various forms of timing retard and primary fuel tweak.
THe car would not idle right, it would surge up/down and I could not just get it.








How much did you guys have to do with the 630cc injectors and that MAF?
I mean I feel stupid, I spent a good two hours ****ing with it to not even get a proper idle.
This is really limiting stock turbo power here, along with the actual stock K03 requested boost. I know my modified turbine housing could handle more flow


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

VR Maf + 1.8t sensor, 630s, 3bar, walbro, no LW tweaks, started and idled perfect


----------



## zooyork155 (Nov 10, 2003)

If you're out flowing the stock MAF what g/s are you seeing?
How much boost are you holding above 5500rpm?


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-BumpIt(1226292624641)*

maybe stu will add this to the faq since there is an abundance of questions still going on with this as well as still getting good attention


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_VR Maf + 1.8t sensor, 630s, 3bar, walbro, no LW tweaks, started and idled perfect 

Same here.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

My car was clamping boost when I saw 195grams per second on vag-com.
I don't have a boost gauge hooked up, but I basically just turned the wastegate actuator rod back two full turns. That problem went away -- but it was not a problem until the cold weather came.


----------



## zooyork155 (Nov 10, 2003)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_My car was clamping boost when I saw 195grams per second on vag-com.
I don't have a boost gauge hooked up, but I basically just turned the wastegate actuator rod back two full turns. That problem went away -- but it was not a problem until the cold weather came.


That's curios as I regularly see over 200 g/s. Does the larger housing affect peak MAF readings? (ie. 195 g/s with the larger housing would be like 250 g/s with stock)


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (zooyork155)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zooyork155* »_
That's curios as I regularly see over 200 g/s. Does the larger housing affect peak MAF readings? (ie. 195 g/s with the larger housing would be like 250 g/s with stock)

I am using an old serial cable, it could have gone higher and just not refreshed fast enough. But that was the peak I saw before limp.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

get you a VR maf and fix that issue


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_get you a VR maf and fix that issue










Haz vr maf. No haz 630cc injectors







skywalkergti on here posted a for sale thread that turned out to be a feeler thread.
So I would have to order 630cc injcetors.
I tried tuning around my current 415cc @ 3.5bar and pulling 5 on timing and playing with the primary fuel tweak got me a car that would try and idle, but die then sound like hell. I pretty much gave it up after 30-40 minutes of ****ing around and trying to get it to even idle http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

order you some 630s and a walbro lol hit up clay @ cts http://www.ctsturbo.com


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_order you some 630s and a walbro lol hit up clay @ cts http://www.ctsturbo.com


Already haz walbro in box









Spending my $$$ currently on the syncro project. This may have to wait a while. 
I'll just deal with 230-240whp stock turbo for now


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Budgeted a set of 630cc injectors. 180$ shipped.
Sweet. Looks like I will be able to run a 3" maf and cranked wastegate soon.
We will see what happens, but I trying to tune the 415cc injectors to the 3" maf was more frustrating than megasquirt.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

you know i ran [email protected] ona vr maf with regular gas and minor tweaks, thats why you cant tune it to work on the E85...
i know i know







and damn you josh for neglecting that information, just remembered


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_you know i ran [email protected] ona vr maf with regular gas and minor tweaks, thats why you cant tune it to work on the E85...
i know i know







and damn you josh for neglecting that information, just remembered

Doh. No big deal man.
Either way I needed 630cc injectosr for something, once my syncro car is together I am thinking it will be a unitronic mafless 630cc tune on gas just to keep it simple and reliable although ethanol is super tempting.....
180$ shipped too.
Were you able to tweak back setings in LW for regular gas on the 630cc injectors and VR maf?
Has anyone here done that? I've been running straight E85 for so long I am used to going to two stations, and keeping 2 5 gal jugs in storage at my place for just in case. 
It would be nice to be able to go back to gas without injector removal though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

yea i ran it but you have to pull an ASS LOAD like -25%, but that will be 472.5 then the ecu will have to pull the rest but luckily the car runs fine on 440s with just the VR maf so its just 35ccs it has to adjust for. you dont want to go less then a 3 bar fpr bc it will mess up spray pattern/atomization


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_yea i ran it but you have to pull an ASS LOAD like -25%, but that will be 472.5 then the ecu will have to pull the rest but luckily the car runs fine on 440s with just the VR maf so its just 35ccs it has to adjust for. you dont want to go less then a 3 bar fpr bc it will mess up spray pattern/atomization

That is great, it sounds like 630cc is the magical injector for a 3" maf E85 and gas.
I'm already pulling -25% primary fuel tweak in LW when I put 93 in the car and go to the 93 program. 
Looking forward to cranking the gate.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

yes 630s is the limit, i got that information from dan (GT-ER) for those who are unfamiliar with dan, he did some research and information regarding maf sizes when he got GIAC X+ to run BT software. I talked to him and as well used other people and sources for information.
Heres that thread also in the FAQ
The "How to get X+ to work with your BT setup" Guide! by GT-ER


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Now I don't feel so bad for being unable to get the car to idle with a 3" maf, 1.8T sensor and my 415cc setup.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

yea my bad dude complete **** up on my part for forgetting that


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

looks like e85 officially costs more than premium now in socal. I think my e85 days will be done once the 50 trim comes... It was fun while it lasted.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

thats only bc they wont sell it for less then they paid for it, wait till that tank of E85 is empty and they have to refill it


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*

It's more than that Josh. 220 to a tank is horrible, having one gas station in the entire city sucks too. 
The automobile is about freedom, and going on roadtrips, snowboarding in the winter, maybe go see the grand canyon, etc etc. Can't do it when there are a hand full of stations out on the west coast.
California just signed a law required at least 1 alternative fuel in all pumps like 15 years into the future. When that **** happens...I'll be running my 911TT off e85.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

bwahaha i told you i told you! its fun for a while but that **** SUCKS when it comes to MPG the most i ever got was hwy at 270, CITY = FAIL. When i build my block i will do a BT DYNO on E85 to show its madness but till then 93 baby
btw arnold rocks, any man that can take on predator is ok in my books http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

630cc deka injectors, 3" maf and 3.5bar fpr.
255lph inline, relay + custom harness I spent hours doing right.
Too rich with -10% primary fuel tweak.
-4.5 degrees timing on the 100 octane slot to let it adapt.
Need to go score a 3bar at the junkyard in the morning. Going to do that then install it. Car runs good however. 
I am going to do some datalogging and adjust, I think the fuel mileage can be sorted to reasonable. 
I like the idea now that I could go BT on the APR setup now even if it will not make any serious power.
The car has a more progressive throttle, no more instant on/off switch and stuttering or pulsing before it went into boost.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

are you still on E85?


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I am still on E85, yes








I'm going to fill up again in about 30 minutes also. 
What kind of timing are you 3" maf guys running on the 100 octane tune with E85?
I'm still at -4.5 degrees and think that is limiting the car. The two full wastegate turns I had to do in order to get it to not overrun the maf is probably keeping it slower also


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_I am still on E85, yes








I'm going to fill up again in about 30 minutes also. 
What kind of timing are you 3" maf guys running on the 100 octane tune with E85?
I'm still at -4.5 degrees and think that is limiting the car. The two full wastegate turns I had to do in order to get it to not overrun the maf is probably keeping it slower also









+6ish originally
now around +4ish
That is on the 91 octane tune though. 
I would just log overall timing and see where you are...then determine whether you should crank it up or not. You're not gonna make more power going over 28 degrees @ redline.


_Modified by 20aeman at 3:52 PM 11-17-2008_


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

lol get off -4.5 degrees man!!! i was running + 10* on Apr 100 lol and yes like i was actually losing power from over advancing just no more power to be made on stock turbo/cams lol go look at my logs lol


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_lol get off -4.5 degrees man!!! i was running + 10* on Apr 100 lol and yes like i was actually losing power from over advancing just no more power to be made on stock turbo/cams lol go look at my logs lol


Holy christ. With a VR maf and all? I guess alcohol is pretty ****ing badass compared to gas when it comes to timing.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

yea dude go back and read the thread you aare forgetting


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_yea dude go back and read the thread you aare forgetting









Yeah, pretty log is showing like 30+ timing at redline heh.

I'll take my car to 0 before I drive home and report back. I have a feeling I might even get a nice mileage increase from that.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

4.7v zener diode in.
I hardwired the wires for the n112 and 249. Car drives nice, it's not shutting the throttle body anymore








Still have not tweaked the wastegate back at all, I need to get my boost gauge in and see what it does in this 30 degree weather.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

What ever happened with the UNI 630 file, was it able to run 93 and E85 without major changes?


----------



## Mike.Mike. (Apr 19, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (ejg3855)*

bump for ejg question


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

yes it worked but not 100% perfect it will require some tweaking, ultimately we (adam and i) did not get to spend a lot of time on it as i got impatient and went big turbo. now when i get rods done i will be doing a monster 50trim E85 dyno


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_yes it worked but not 100% perfect it will require some tweaking, ultimately we (adam and i) did not get to spend a lot of time on it as i got impatient and went big turbo. now when i get rods done i will be doing a monster 50trim E85 dyno

Are you talking about the stage 2 file or the big turbo file?


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

adam and I have been talking about the 630 file and E85, I was hoping swoleguy could chime in on how difficult it was to switch between the two fuels and maybe what he used as a basis for his tweaks ? 
Thanks Guys.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_....and maybe what he used as a basis for his tweaks ? 


Fuel trims, just like I told you.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Fuel trims, just like I told you.









touche, i am just lost bc if the file is going to adapt to the new fuel (E85) are my tweaks going to be to aim for the different lambda values for E85 ? ( I PM'ed you so ignore my duplication)


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_
touche, i am just lost bc if the file is going to adapt to the new fuel (E85) are my tweaks going to be to aim for the different lambda values for E85 ? ( I PM'ed you so ignore my duplication)

you can't change lambda values with unisettings/lemmi. That's what you pay Unitronics the big bucks for. The gasoline and e85 lambda values for WOT are "close enough" but either tapp or unitronic need to develop a stinking e85 file.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
you can't change lambda values with unisettings/lemmi. That's what you pay Unitronics the big bucks for. The gasoline and e85 lambda values for WOT are "close enough" but either tapp or unitronic need to develop a stinking e85 file.

you can get it to work i am pretty sure of it. adam and i just needed more time to play. but then when the same guy doing your logging says hey josh you know you have a BT kit in your garage blah blah blah. kinda got peer pressured


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
you can get it to work i am pretty sure of it. adam and i just needed more time to play. but then when the same guy doing your logging says hey josh you know you have a BT kit in your garage blah blah blah. kinda got peer pressured









That "guy" was yourself.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
you can't change lambda values with unisettings/lemmi. That's what you pay Unitronics the big bucks for. The gasoline and e85 lambda values for WOT are "close enough" but either tapp or unitronic need to develop a stinking e85 file.

right I understand that but doesnt adding more fuel via a primary lower my lambda making the car run richer?


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
That "guy" was yourself.









lol right







nothing was funnier then a ko3 at 7500 lol btw can i borrow your compression tester


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
lol right







nothing was funnier then a ko3 at 7500 lol btw can i borrow your compression tester

Yes, you can. 

_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_
right I understand that but doesnt adding more fuel via a primary lower my lambda making the car run richer? 

No, it just shifts the fuel trims, ie the "adjustment" the ECU is making to reach target AFR.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Gracias


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

I feel like a noob. 6 years of engineering degrees I should be able to understand this stuff.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Since both Adam & Josh said I was thinking to hard about this AF stuff and I needed to do some less thinking and let the ECU do more.
I found a good article that makes it all understandable now how 9 and 14.7 are different but the same.....
_What is the stiochiometric air-fuel ratio?
Internal combustion engines burn fuel to create kinetic energy. The burning of fuel is basically the reaction of the fuel with the oxygen in the air. The amount of oxygen present in the cylinder is the limiting factor for the amount of fuel can be burnt. If there’s too much fuel present, not all fuel will be burnt and un-burnt fuel will be pushed out through the exhaust valve. When building an engine, it’s very important to know the air-fuel ratio at which exactly all the available oxygen is used to burn the fuel and all the fuel is burnt completely. This ratio is called the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio.
Calculation
As already stated, the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio is the ratio at which all oxygen is used up and all fuel is completely burnt. This ratio is a basic property of a fuel and is the result of its chemical composition. Let’s for example look at natural gas (methane). When burning any carbon-based fuel, carbon dioxide and hydrogen are formed. Going back to the octane example, the following reaction equation describes the oxidation of the fuel:
CH4 + 2O2 -> CO2 + 2H20
of the atoms that make up octane and oxygen, we get the following numbers:
Carbon (C): 12,01
Oxygen (O): 16
Hydrogen (H): 1,008

So 1 molecule of methane has a molecular weight of: 1 * 12,01 + 4 * 1,008 = 16,042
One oxygen molecule weighs: 2 * 16 = 32.
The oxygen-fuel mass ratio is then: 2 * 32 / 1 * 16,042 = 64 / 16,042 = . So we need 3,99 kg of oxygen for every 1 kg of fuel. Since 23,2 mass-percent of air is actually oxygen, we need : 3,99 * 100/23,2 = 17,2 kg air for every 1 kg of methane. So the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio of methane is 17,2.

Common fuels
When the composition of a fuel is known, this method can be used to derive the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio. For the most common fuels, this, however, is not necessary because the ratio’s are known:
Gasoline: 14.7
Natural gas: 17.2
Propane: 15.5
Ethanol: 9
Methanol: 6.4
Hydrogen: 34
Diesel: 14,6

Interesting to see is that methanol and ethanol both have a very low air-fuel ratio, while the carbon chain length is comparable to methane and ethane. The answer to that is that alcohols like methanol and ethanol already carry oxygen themselves, which reduces the need for oxygen from air.

Conclusion
In order to be able to judge if an air-fuel mixture has the correct ratio of air to fuel, the stoichiometric air fuel ratio has to be known. If the composition of a fuel is known, this ratio can be calculated rather easily._


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

Yeah, lambda is lambda. Regardless of what the hell you put in the tank. 
FWIW, my E85/50 trim project will be starting very soon. Goal is to hit 300whp on the wastegate aka 14.7 psi. 
Vband 50 trim .63 AR should get me there. I also had the turbine and manifold ceramic coated to help with spool. 
After I dyno and make the numbers, I'll switch back to gasoline and live the simple life.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (20aeman)*

I think the biggest thing holding back this idea right now is the ability to "easily" switch between E85 and 93. 
If I remember correctly ECU + lemmi = +/- 35% fueling. 
I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on an easy way to switch back and forth ?
Consider this setup, Uni 630 file on Stock Turbo. 
THANKS GUYS!


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

Then you want Eurodyne/tapp tune. 
Arnold/pagparts is gonna be loading up a 830 pump file and 630 race file on my ecu. 
If you run 830s at all time, when you switch to the 630 race file, you have that extra leeway in terms of fueling to run e85. 
You're not close to an e85 station? change it back to the 830 pump file, this will let you drive around on pump gas.
All with the cruise control stalk.
closest you'll get to a "flex fuel" 1.8t.
Switchable pump/e85 map with appropriate timing + 2 stage mbc (20 for pump, 25 for e85) = Jekyll and Hyde. Jekyll is already a bad ass, Hyde is just an animal.


_Modified by 20aeman at 8:03 PM 3-16-2009_


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

I like UNI








Do what your saying is run the 630 race file with E85 as when its run with 830's it will ahve the extra fueling capacity ?

I don't really follow how running a different program with different injectors really works.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

For a stock turbo car how would I calculate the volumes for injectors
I am thinking 440's @ 3bar for Gas and 440's @ 4 Bar for E85.
I should be able to pull enough fuel out for gas and add enough fuel for E85. Confirm?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (ejg3855)*

So, E85 + VR MAF + 3bar FPR + 630cc + 0% Unisettings fuel tweak = -10% trim.
To zero trim you need -10% unisetting fuel tweak.
Throw gas back in and you need -30% more. = -40% tweak, but -24% is the max.
How about a S4 MAF? That should give at least another 15% margin.
Thoughts? 
This is for the ability to run E85 or gas and just use unisettings to tweak.


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_So, E85 + VR MAF + 3bar FPR + 630cc + 0% Unisettings fuel tweak = -10% trim.
To zero trim you need -10% unisetting fuel tweak.
Throw gas back in and you need -30% more. = -40% tweak, but -24% is the max.
How about a S4 MAF? That should give at least another 15% margin.
Thoughts? 
This is for the ability to run E85 or gas and just use unisettings to tweak.

I have 630s, vr maf, and e85....with no fuel tweaking. This setup is pretty close to ideal. I think my fuel trims are like -3 or something. 
Prior to running e85, I was able to run pump gas on those same 630s and vr maf with -25 on the primary fuel tweak. Anything bigger than 630s and you'll need the s4 maf. Lemme know if you want one, as I have one hanging around. Hell, I'll have my vr maf up for sale soon too, since I'm moving to a mafless tapp file.
BTW to anyone interested, I just failed smog with e85. Passed everything except for nox at 15mph. I think it's because the timing I'm running is off the charts. I'll turn it down and go back with e85. See if it changes anything.


_Modified by 20aeman at 2:10 PM 6-16-2009_


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
BTW to anyone interested, I just failed smog with e85. Passed everything except for nox at 15mph. I think it's because the timing I'm running is off the charts. I'll turn it down and go back with e85. See if it changes anything.









lol thats crazy dude, i have heard people passing catless on E85 as long as they dont peek under the car.


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_







lol thats crazy dude, i have heard people passing catless on E85 as long as they dont peek under the car.


haha, I'm pretty sure it'll pass, just not with 12+ degrees over baseline


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

correct me if i am wrong, but i thought more timing, meant a more complete burn, resulting in better emissions.


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_correct me if i am wrong, but i thought more timing, meant a more complete burn, resulting in better emissions.

nah, apparently, more timing increases nox because nox is a byproduct of lots of heat. When you have lots of timing, the mixture is burnt at a closer proximity, and nox has a greater chance of forming. The 2 major things that create nox is running lean (which I'm definitely not) and lots of timing. Passed everything else though, including nox at 25mph.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

wonder why this has not been added to the faq/DIY, another interesting point is that this thread has had more views then the faq lol


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*

Just filled up on this stuff today. Pulls pretty hard, advanced timing 10degrees and still no knocking. Any idea as to why my boost keeps getting cut? Is this a form of fuel cut done by the ecu through the wastegate? It also closes the throttle too. I have some logs, haven't broken them down yet but we'll see. It's an 02 1.8t, k03s, and the ECS n75. Any thoughts?


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

I noticed some people use the VR6 MAF, what is the reason behind this and could this possibly be affecting my fuel/air cutting issue?


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

I think I'm going to invest in an inline fuel pump since I'll most likely be going bigger turbo/injectors down the road anyways. Maybe the pump just can't keep up with the injectors...
Can someone explain why to use the VR6 MAF and how that affects timing??


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

For the guys that have done this did you just run 630's and an Inline on stock management with just some timing tweaks ? 
I have UNI II and was planning on trying that.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *bbeach* »_Just filled up on this stuff today. Pulls pretty hard, advanced timing 10degrees and still no knocking. Any idea as to why my boost keeps getting cut? Is this a form of fuel cut done by the ecu through the wastegate? It also closes the throttle too. I have some logs, haven't broken them down yet but we'll see. It's an 02 1.8t, k03s, and the ECS n75. Any thoughts?


OVERBOOST







goign into limp

_Quote, originally posted by *bbeach* »_I noticed some people use the VR6 MAF, what is the reason behind this and could this possibly be affecting my fuel/air cutting issue?

to keep from maxing out the maf and in my case over boosting from a cranked wg. also makes running bigger injectors easier.

_Quote, originally posted by *bbeach* »_I think I'm going to invest in an inline fuel pump since I'll most likely be going bigger turbo/injectors down the road anyways. Maybe the pump just can't keep up with the injectors...
Can someone explain why to use the VR6 MAF and how that affects timing??


changes load values that the maf sees due to larger opening, so the ecu changes timing bc it thinks theres less load.

_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_For the guys that have done this did you just run 630's and an Inline on stock management with just some timing tweaks ? 
I have UNI II and was planning on trying that. 


630s, vr, inline, E85 will fire up on stock ecu and almost run damn perfect.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

is that a VR maf with a 1.8T sensor ?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*FV-QR*

definitely ^^^^


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

So is there an issue with running ~+10 in unisettings where the ECU doesn't like it and would rather VR6 MAF with +6* instead? I just bought a walbro 255 inline so we'll see how much that helps out. I'm going to decrease load to 70% to see if it goes away, else I'm running mafless for a bit.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *bbeach* »_So is there an issue with running ~+10 in unisettings where the ECU doesn't like it and would rather VR6 MAF with +6* instead? I just bought a walbro 255 inline so we'll see how much that helps out. I'm going to decrease load to 70% to see if it goes away, else I'm running mafless for a bit.


no i was running a VR maf, apr 100, and +10* i advance timing so much i was starting to get pumping losses and maxed out stock cams up top at 30+* towards redline. The pump will help with fueling, once i got that the duty cycle came down some.


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

I still haven't broken down the logs yet but does anyone know what the max fueling the stock fuel pump can handle? Idling was a bit rough this morning too. What do you guys run for plugs/gap? Raise idle in LW?


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *bbeach* »_I still haven't broken down the logs yet but does anyone know what the max fueling the stock fuel pump can handle? Idling was a bit rough this morning too. What do you guys run for plugs/gap? Raise idle in LW?


cold starts are always a little frumpy, thats why i said add fuel on start/warmup. most of the time a quick tap on the throttle will smooth her out.


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

It's tough to tell but I'm pretty sure I'm running rather rich on startup. The stock o2 as well as my LC1 dont heat up quick enough for the first 5 seconds of running but afterwards it's usually reading 12:1 or so (it reads in AFR for gas so it's a lambda of ~.8). It also smells of fuel on startup as well. I wish there was an easier way to remove fueling.
I'm worried my stock pump is dying up top. First issues (throttle shut) occur around 4000rpm.
Anyone have specs as to what the max flow of the pump is at 4 bar?


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *bbeach* »_It's tough to tell but I'm pretty sure I'm running rather rich on startup. The stock o2 as well as my LC1 dont heat up quick enough for the first 5 seconds of running but afterwards it's usually reading 12:1 or so (it reads in AFR for gas so it's a lambda of ~.8). It also smells of fuel on startup as well. I wish there was an easier way to remove fueling.
I'm worried my stock pump is dying up top. First issues (throttle shut) occur around 4000rpm.
Anyone have specs as to what the max flow of the pump is at 4 bar?


its not going to heat up as fast, alcohol burns cooler. i ran a mix of 50/50 on [email protected] with no issues. IIRC was a long time ago.


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
its not going to heat up as fast, alcohol burns cooler. i ran a mix of 50/50 on [email protected] with no issues. IIRC was a long time ago.


Yeah but it's probably running a lambda of <.7 upon initial startup and works it's way up. Your flame temp is highest at lambda=1 regardless of fuel type but slightly richer is better to be sure to burn more. I think raising the idle might help out a bit cause when I hold it at 1k+ it's fine.
At the moment I'm at 100% E85 but the load is turned down to either 60% or 70%. I'm hoping it's just the pump not being able to keep up, and/or filter. The 380'[email protected] is 40% more than the 317'[email protected] so it should be a perfect match to the original uni2 tune. At 4000rpm my MAF reading more or less flatlines anyways. As some quick math, 160g/s with AFR of 8:1 is 20g/s of fuel. Is that more than the stock intank can handle?


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

raise the idle a bit i know i did. 440s on 100% E85 might be a little much for the stock pump. If i was you i would run a log with just RPM and inj on time and calculate IDC. I always had slight angry girl in the morning on cold starts, winter was worse. but i had to add fuel on start up/warmup to fix it. I maxed out stock injectors on just ko3, stock [email protected], and 93 fuel. IIRC 98% IDC, so i had to go 317s @ 4bar just for regular fuel. Once on E85 stop using AFR and just focus on lambda values and if possible leave the wideband on lambda. If you see the first post it explains why.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*

Josh, is your inline fuel pump as loud as running the rear window washer fluid pump?


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Josh, is your inline fuel pump as loud as running the rear window washer fluid pump?


nope, can barely hear it, and its under the hood. most people dont even notice it. its only slightly audible when i take out my under hood liner


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_Once on E85 stop using AFR and just focus on lambda values and if possible leave the wideband on lambda. If you see the first post it explains why.


Yeah I'll have to try out logworks and set it to read in lambda (I like it more regardless). Gasoline and E85 lambda values aren't too far apart as far as rbt and lbt so I kinda just go by what would be a good afr for gasoline (the db gauge simply multiplies lambda by 14.7 for the readout). I'm going to try to raise the idle a bit more (It's already 850 or so since I have VF mounts in there). Maybe 950-1000 couldn't hurt. I would have loved to have put 630's in here but I'd also like to be able to switch back to straight 93 if need be (and only pull timing back 10* first lol). When I drove up the first time on 380'[email protected] on 93 it was doing perfectly fine.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (bbeach)*

I run VR MAF housing, 3bar fpr, and 630s and can switch back and forth between 93 and E85. I save 2 profiles in unisettings and load to ecu when I have to change fuels. 93 profile has the max fuel pulled out and less timing of course. I'm about to find out if I can do the same with a 4bar fpr. By my calculations (adding/subtracting







) the ECU trims will be pushing -14%


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_I run VR MAF housing, 3bar fpr, and 630s and can switch back and forth between 93 and E85. I save 2 profiles in unisettings and load to ecu when I have to change fuels. 93 profile has the max fuel pulled out and less timing of course. I'm about to find out if I can do the same with a 4bar fpr. By my calculations (adding/subtracting







) the ECU trims will be pushing -14%


good luck rey, i think the limits is about 630s. i know my 630s vr maf, ran dead perfect with no tweaks. I want to dyno and run straight E85 on the 50 trim







be afraid.


_Modified by theswoleguy at 2:54 PM 8-21-2009_


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
good luck rey, i think the limits is about 630s. i know my 630s vr maf, ran dead perfect with no tweaks. I want to dyno and run straight E85 on the 50 trim







be afraid.

Being at your last dyno I'd be VERY afraid! <- bring the Mythbusters bulletproof blast barrier next time. (8000+ RPM What?)


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
Being at your last dyno I'd be VERY afraid! <- bring the Mythbusters bulletproof blast barrier next time. (8000+ RPM What?) 


o no lol not till rods and head.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
good luck rey, i think the limits is about 630s. i know my 630s vr maf, ran dead perfect with no tweaks. I want to dyno and run straight E85 on the 50 trim







be afraid.


Is this car chipped ? Or is it stock file ? I would like to easily be able to switch between fuels myself. If you could elaborate on how you did this I would be very appreciative. Just what your uni settings files are. 
Thanks!!!!!


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*

just put 93 back in and so far so good:
VR MAF housing, 630cc, 4bar fpr, max fuel pulled out, and some timing pulled out.
Stock ecu


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

Still having some cold start issues, I noticed it likes to puff out a little bit of smoke as well...it smells like the fuel and nothing else (not coolant or oil). It's mainly gray in color. Any thoughts?


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (bbeach)*

Some logs of said cold start:
First is overall startup for 3 minutes, second is zoomed in version from 70-90 seconds when things started to flake out. Last is block 031. Is it just me or is this o2 sensor not even heating up and reading anything properly until after a full minute? My LC1 reads it fairly quickly (maybe 5-10 seconds). When I do the o2 sensor check it says b1s1 ok or whatever but do you think the sensor might have gotten fouled up lately?
Idle is set to +250 in unisettings so it's at 1000rpm when all heated up. AFR is typically fine then as well. Is this something I should mess around with channel 6 in unisettings? Also, I haven't tried yet, but is the idle additive torque involved with this at all? I believe it either opens the throttle more or changes the timing...not sure yet. Any thoughts?


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

Walbro should be in today, but that shouldnt be helping out the coldstart issues. Gotta get that squared away first.
EDIT: What do you guys use for plugs and what gap? I think I might narrow the gap to .025-026 to see if that helps out.










_Modified by bbeach at 11:03 AM 8-24-2009_


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

Someone has to have some ideas regarding the graphs above. Is it that the o2 sensor is getting old and taking so long to heat up?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (bbeach)*

when I had some issues (not so much cold start-up as irregular idle) it was a vacuum leak around injectors. For cold start-ups I just crank once and then turn off and then crank it a second time. The first crank gets the fuel to the rail which the priming of the pump doesn't seem to be enough anymore. I may have to do it a third time. But that's it.


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

It seems like sometimes I have to keep cranking it and have to hold it 3-5 seconds at times. This isn't always for cold starts either that's just where it's worse than the others.


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## flat4ever (May 22, 2003)

*Re: (bbeach)*

This is a great thread, I tried my own e85 setup a few months back after reading this. I went with 415cc genesis injectors, stock maf, stock fuel pump, Revo stage 2, SPS3 settings boost 9 timing 9. With only e85 in the tank it would pull hard up to redline. Ran my quickest time at the dragstrip and won my class at Bug-In 34 at Fontana in May:








5 days later, my stock diff blew on the freeway in stop & go traffic:
















The car sat for a 1 1/2 months waiting to get the trans rebuilt with a peloquin diff and .75 TDI 5th gear. Now it's running again, but on stock injectors and 91 octane.
I'm having a hesitation under boost between 3000-4000 RPM, and then it clears after that. I put on a new fuel filter (old one had dark gray fuel when I poured it out), new MAF and I still have the same issue. Does anyone have problems after running e85? I'm thinking it loosened up all the crap in the tank while the car sat for so long. I think I'm gonna try changing the fuel pump to see. Any suggestions? Hope this isn't a thread jack


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (flat4ever)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flat4ever* »_
I'm having a hesitation under boost between 3000-4000 RPM, and then it clears after that. I put on a new fuel filter (old one had dark gray fuel when I poured it out), new MAF and I still have the same issue. Does anyone have problems after running e85? I'm thinking it loosened up all the crap in the tank while the car sat for so long. I think I'm gonna try changing the fuel pump to see. Any suggestions? Hope this isn't a thread jack








Do you have any logs or vagcom? Try logging 003, 020, and 115/116 if you can. When on 100% e85 I used to have issues starting around 4000rpm (basically when air mass flow rate tops out on the k03 and thus fueling) but that might have been due to fuel pump. I got the walbro in yesterday and have yet to fill up on 100% E85 again. Nice times at the track btw...I'm hoping to make it at least one more time this year.


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## ypsetihw (Nov 20, 2008)

totally cool


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## flat4ever (May 22, 2003)

*Re: (bbeach)*

I haven't logged with the new maf yet, I'm kinda nervous at WOT knowing it is most likely running lean. I'll try to get something though.


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (flat4ever)*

I was supposed to put this up earlier but here's some number for E85 fueling calculations.


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

Anyone use e85 with maestro yet?
And what spark gap do people run? I'm debating knocking it down to .025-026"...any thoughts on that?


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_just put 93 back in and so far so good:
VR MAF housing, 630cc, 4bar fpr, max fuel pulled out, and some timing pulled out.
Stock ecu


would you be willing to share your unisettings files or are the only 2 channels you modified really just the fuel and timing ? how much timing are you adding when running E85 ?


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (bbeach)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bbeach* »_Anyone use e85 with maestro yet?
And what spark gap do people run? I'm debating knocking it down to .025-026"...any thoughts on that?

that's fine, I was running .24 on bkr8eixs on my e85 setup. On a VR maf, 630s, I added 6 degrees with lemmi(taking into account that the vr maf accounts for roughly 4-5 degrees already)...so grand total of 10-11 degrees.
The only settings I touched were fueling on decreasing loads (I had a nasty rev hang), and timing. Primary fuel tweak was untouched, as the vr, 630s, e85 combo is nearly perfect out of the box.


_Modified by 20aeman at 7:15 PM 8-27-2009_


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_would you be willing to share your unisettings files or are the only 2 channels you modified really just the fuel and timing ? how much timing are you adding when running E85 ?

well my setup is a little different ;-)
check my sig


----------



## jbrown7815 (Jun 17, 2007)

Audi guy here, secretly enjoying this thread. Read every page...

Would this work the same with my 1.8t/ECU, being an A4??

Thanks...


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

should work find jbrown. most important things:
Wide band ecu
Fueling/Inj
Patience


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_
that's fine, I was running .24 on bkr8eixs on my e85 setup. On a VR maf, 630s, I added 6 degrees with lemmi(taking into account that the vr maf accounts for roughly 4-5 degrees already)...so grand total of 10-11 degrees.
The only settings I touched were fueling on decreasing loads (I had a nasty rev hang), and timing. Primary fuel tweak was untouched, as the vr, 630s, e85 combo is nearly perfect out of the box.


i told you, Full E85, 630s/pump, VR maf will start perfect almost right off the bat, some minor tweaks and shes gold. Retarded how much she wants to go, and with so much timing i was having prespool issues where she wanted to go and i didnt... Damn baby turbo... i need to do my rods so that i can go for it on E85. Ive seen adams logs on his 2.0L 35R 24psi and 28* timing... he said, straight raped ape mode, scary fast.


----------



## jbrown7815 (Jun 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*

So i do have a wideband ECU?

Also, where is best place to get the VR6 MAF housing? Is it just the Vr6 housing, and the stock 1.8T sensor?

Thanks man... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









_Modified by jbrown7815 at 10:31 AM 8-28-2009_


_Modified by jbrown7815 at 10:40 AM 8-28-2009_


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (jbrown7815)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jbrown7815* »_So i do have a wideband ECU?

Also, where is best place to get the VR6 MAF housing? Is it just the Vr6 housing, and the stock 1.8T sensor?

yes on both accounts.


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## jbrown7815 (Jun 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*

Thanks man.


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## jbrown7815 (Jun 17, 2007)

Theswoleguy

Sprry for so many questions....

So what you are telling me is, if I get 630 injectors, better fuel pump, VR6 maf housing, and completely stock ECU (no chip ever) it should run well?
OR should I get a chip with 100 octane program first?

Thanks


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

correct you can run it on stock software but all you will be able to do is advance the hell out of timing, no boost increase unless you get software or diode mod.


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

Just as a recommendation to anyone having cold start issues (early morning) put the key in the on position for nearly a minute to let the o2 sensor heat up. I did that this morning and it helped quite a bit. Idling with 12-12.5 AFR on the gauge (so lambda of .82).


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (bbeach)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bbeach* »_Just as a recommendation to anyone having cold start issues (early morning) put the key in the on position for nearly a minute to let the o2 sensor heat up. I did that this morning and it helped quite a bit. Idling with 12-12.5 AFR on the gauge (so lambda of .82).

Smart tip http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (flat4ever)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flat4ever* »_I haven't logged with the new maf yet, I'm kinda nervous at WOT knowing it is most likely running lean. I'll try to get something though.

I keep forgetting to reply to this one but I wouldn't worry about running lean. The ECU dumps boost via n75 and closes throttle to richen it up.

Another tip. If you have vagcom, try to reset the check engine light to re-enable the adaptation of fueling quicker (for someone like me who uses 100% e85 sometimes and 100% gas the others).


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## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: (bbeach)*

finished putting all my goodies in finally, gt30, 044 inline, 1400cc injectors, new fuel lines. Hopefully in a month I'll be hitting up the dyno on E85 to see where i can push the setup on standalone.


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (BlueSleeper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlueSleeper* »_finished putting all my goodies in finally, gt30, 044 inline, 1400cc injectors, new fuel lines. Hopefully in a month I'll be hitting up the dyno on E85 to see where i can push the setup on standalone.

Sounds like it's going to be a pretty mean setup. Is a single 044 going to do it for ya? 
A little O/T but can someone tell me if a walbro inline at 5 bar is going to run like crap? I was told it would and i've seen graphs somewhere inferring this is true.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

the factory pump will not handle 5 bar + boost


----------



## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_the factory pump will not handle 5 bar + boost

So I'm guessing that I'm going to have to knock down to 4 bar again. My dilema is that I want to be able to run both 100% gasoline and 100% E85. As of right now I can mostly do that on the 380s at 4 bar (it cuts out every now and then up top with e85) and it runs a tad rich with 100% gasoline (-25% trim). 380's at 4 bar is 439cc/min which technically can run straight gasoline. Using some 440's with 4 bar would be 508cc/min. That extra 15% up top might fix the underfueling issue. I'd love to invest in some 630's but I can't see myself running 100% gasoline with them. Any thoughts?


----------



## bigT1.8t (Mar 23, 2009)

i have the same setup. Im running apr software currently on 91 tune but i can toggle to the 93, and 100 files. This along with a tyrolsport fuel pump. 
So in theory i should be able to drop e85 in, switch it over to the 100 octane file and be good? someone shoot me a pm because i am DYING to do this lol


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## bigT1.8t (Mar 23, 2009)

anyone?


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## dckeener (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (bigT1.8t)*

^^ as stated earlier stock fueling is a limiting factor. You could just drop e85 in on the 100 oct file but the stock pump and injectors will only take you so far and then you will run out of the physical capacity to provide enough fuel for the engine.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

most people have had success doing just that with a E85 blend, your stock fueling system is not capable of supplying enough fuel to run E85. Most 93OCT tunes are close to maxing out stock injectors.


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## bigT1.8t (Mar 23, 2009)

yea but ive got an upgraded fuel pump, 380cc injectors and a four bar fpr


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (bigT1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bigT1.8t* »_yea but ive got an upgraded fuel pump, 380cc injectors and a four bar fpr

You have a narrowband ecu car...which make things a little difficult.
Under normal circumstances, you need roughly 30 percent more fuel...so you'd get unisettings and add 25% (maximum allowable) to primary fuel tweak, and let the ecu adapt for the other 5-6 percent....but your ecu cant really adapt, as it's a narrowband car...which would mean that it'll run lean. 
narrowband cars are pretty inflexible, even if you were to make up for this by running slightly more injector or fuel pressure, there is no gaurantee that it would run perfect...hell, it doesn't exactly run perfect on a wideband car.


----------



## vw collector (Jul 6, 2002)

*Re: (20aeman)*

I grew up driving E100 cars in Brazil and finally started running it here too...
Thanks to Rey, I just converted my 1.8T with stock software, diode and MBC to run on E85.
So far so good, lots and lots of timing added and the fuel system so far has been handling the extra demand.
Replaced the stock 280cc for 317cc and a 4bar fpr... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (vw collector)*

Been a while since I've made any updates. I just filled up on E85 again and did some logging. Why is my timing curve so jumpy?
2002 1.8t K03s (bent blades







)
Uni Stage 2 S/W with 9.75deg added in Unisettings. Stock airbox, stock turndowns in the back and EJ FMIC. Vagcom says 0 timing pull on all 4 cylinders but I'm not sure why the timing curve is all over the place. Stock 1.8t MAF as well but I'm only at 165g/s up top so dunno if there's a need for anything bigger.


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## corradogirlie (Jul 28, 2007)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*

saved for later reading


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## saps (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (corradogirlie)*

im really itchin to do this on my frankenturbo setup


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## dubtec (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: (bbeach)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bbeach* »_Anyone use e85 with maestro yet? 

Yes sir.








Tuned on straight e85. the car is totally stock with the exception of supporting fuel mods. 247wtq


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (dubtec)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubtec* »_
Yes sir.








Tuned on straight e85. the car is totally stock with the exception of supporting fuel mods. 247wtq

Stock boost levels? Those are some nice numbers for tq. I'll be running E85 once I get my k04-22 in. Probably wont be till springtime. Hoping for 270-300ish whp.


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## dubtec (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: (bbeach)*

that is at 18psi, i built a full 3" exhaust and now it dyno'd 262 wtq. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rbj325 (Oct 25, 2007)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_*So i have 630s and a pump, i need to go on a trip, can i run regular gas* 
Highly doubtful if the car will even start, the ecu can only adapt +- 25%. So even if you pull 25% via LW / Custom Code, i still dont think you will pull enough fuel to not piss off the ecu. Put in some smaller injectors.


This would definitely be possible. I am running E85 on 550s and I only need to pull 20% via adaption channels to have 0% fuel trims on block 032. 630's would just require the ECU pulling ~15%. It wouldn't be optimal running conditions but it would work.
P.S. I want E85 software.


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## boost_addict (Dec 4, 2009)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (theswoleguy)*

i want e85 flash like 6 months ago.
honda and dsm and evo world have a ton of e85 flashes.
there are off the shelf evo e85 flash that people have made over 800 awhp


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## bzflag (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (rbj325)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rbj325* »_
This would definitely be possible. I am running E85 on 550s and I only need to pull 20% via adaption channels to have 0% fuel trims on block 032. 630's would just require the ECU pulling ~15%. It wouldn't be optimal running conditions but it would work.
P.S. I want E85 software.

Mine works just fine on 630s. Pull out 25% via unisettings and the adaption channel sits at about -22%. Mine needs about 17% pulled on E85 to stay at 0 adaption.
I need to do a bit more logging to be carefull, but right now I can go back and forth using just the CC stalk. E85 timing settings, 93oct fuel settings, 100oct program. When I want to run 93 I switch back to stock mode and clear codes.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (bzflag)*

what software? I'm assuming APR since you use the CC stalk.
Also, other than injector sizing what constitues a E85 tune? Timing bump up over all or is timing curve tweaked? If curve tweaked, how exactly? Fueling map vs just over all injector sizing? Boost? Curve specific vs overall bump?
Etc. 
thanks,
Rey


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (elRey)*

Rey,
I did a write up a little while ago discussing the software tweaks that can be made to maximize the e85 benefit.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4782217


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (4ceFed4)*

I appreciate that, and I've read that a while ago. Great thread.
But, that's not quite what I was asking. That's making a non-E85 program work with E85. I'm more interested in a E85 specific program written specifically for that fuel. How would the ign, fuel, boost compare with gas maps.


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_How would the ign, fuel, boost compare with gas maps.


I was just about bump this thread but I guess it's been active recently. In any case, I'm looking to run E85 with a k04-2x in the coming weeks. Anyone else running that setup yet? I'm planning using 415cc/min injectors. 3 bar for gasohol then 5bar for E85. I'm sure the stock intank won't be too happy but the inline walbro's helping to an extent. 
As far as what should be different between a gasoline tune and an E85 there are a few differences. Of course the whole idle situation, with larger injectors your idle can run into issues. Also, advanced timing is a big deal (that one of the main benefits), of course if you didn't plan on upping the boost.
Those differences are usually taken care of (at least by me a year ago) by installing injectors that flowed an amount proportional to the differences in the stoich between E85 and gasohol.
However, as some of you may know, the rich and lean best torques of E85 are different than that of gasoline. When you run E85 with proportionally matched injectors (like I had in the past), your car is going to request the lambdas (NOT AFR) that are best for gasoline, not E85.


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## bzflag (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: E85 + 630s + Walbro Inline = 18 Gurus, Come all. (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_what software? I'm assuming APR since you use the CC stalk.
Also, other than injector sizing what constitues a E85 tune? Timing bump up over all or is timing curve tweaked? If curve tweaked, how exactly? Fueling map vs just over all injector sizing? Boost? Curve specific vs overall bump?
Etc. 
thanks,
Rey


Yep, APR.
I think one of the main points that no one has figured out yet is the timing advance, how far we should go before torque loss sets in.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

unitronics is going to have somethign from what i hear with the unitune suite that is coming out, i think the problem is they dont want to leave people with the inability to swtich to regular fuel. if i get the GTI back on the road and the suite comes available you best bet im having two files made for the car.


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

Bump for any new info on E85 settings. Already read the DIY conversion thread.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

im afollow this cuz i am doing a e85 conversion aswell


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## bagtf3 (Jan 17, 2011)

anyone ever figure out what's the biggest e85/e10 mix you can run with completely stock set up (no chip) and a 4 bar?


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## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

bzflag said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_what software? I'm assuming APR since you use the CC stalk.
> Also, other than injector sizing what constitues a E85 tune? Timing bump up over all or is timing curve tweaked? If curve tweaked, how exactly? Fueling map vs just over all injector sizing? Boost? Curve specific vs overall bump?
> Etc.
> thanks,
> ...


I've tested up to 5 degs more timing with decent gains over my previous tuning on standalone where I shot for max torque all across the map. The biggest thing I've noticed is the engine can take tons more boost. I haven't been to a dyno to make sure it is safe, but I made two 5th gear pulls into the 40+ psi range (gt30) and it was smooth pulls, and 32-35 psi daily around town and it just kept taking more timing. I hope to finish my rebuild this spring to hit the dyno in the summer, moving kind of put a crimp in my plans (gps based traction control, and closed loop knock).

additional: and you can max out 630cc inj with a gt30 on e85, I had to jump up to about 1400cc and it still gets close to 70% at times.


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

BlueSleeper said:


> I've tested up to 5 degs more timing with decent gains over my previous tuning on standalone where I shot for max torque all across the map. The biggest thing I've noticed is the engine can take tons more boost. I haven't been to a dyno to make sure it is safe, but I made two 5th gear pulls into the 40+ psi range (gt30) and it was smooth pulls, and 32-35 psi daily around town and it just kept taking more timing. I hope to finish my rebuild this spring to hit the dyno in the summer, moving kind of put a crimp in my plans (gps based traction control, and closed loop knock).
> 
> additional: and you can max out 630cc inj with a gt30 on e85, I had to jump up to about 1400cc and it still gets close to 70% at times.


IIRC you lived in Houston didn't you? I passed through on my way from ATL to LA. Met up with BOYRC (Brian) and the crew...


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## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

T-Boy said:


> IIRC you lived in Houston didn't you? I passed through on my way from ATL to LA. Met up with BOYRC (Brian) and the crew...


Were you the guy we met up with and ate BBQ? If so yeah that was me


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

BlueSleeper said:


> Were you the guy we met up with and ate BBQ? If so yeah that was me


Yup....so you went with standalone and a gt 30 huh?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

I thought I would reawaken this thread. I'm sure theres alot more going E83 this summer. I have a 50 trim setup 63a/r. I'm contemplating going with bosch 830's with 255 walbro inline. I see alot of people going with bigger fuel lines with running two pumps but I don't think I need to go to that extreme. 

What do you guys think?


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## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

Budsdubbin said:


> I thought I would reawaken this thread. I'm sure theres alot more going E83 this summer. I have a 50 trim setup 63a/r. I'm contemplating going with bosch 830's with 255 walbro inline. I see alot of people going with bigger fuel lines with running two pumps but I don't think I need to go to that extreme.
> 
> What do you guys think?


 I would plan for a bit more fuel flow than just 30-40% due to how much higher you can push the boost. Doubling the fuel requirements of normal E10 would give you a safe margin for a heavy foot.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Well thats fine I can go with 1000cc injectors but I don't want to have to run a dual intank pump setup and have to upgrade my lines. I think I would be fine with a 255 single inline walbro as the high pressure pump and the stock intank feeding it. I wanted to know everyones opinion on that.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Budsdubbin said:


> Well thats fine I can go with 1000cc injectors but I don't want to have to run a dual intank pump setup and have to upgrade my lines. I think I would be fine with a 255 single inline walbro as the high pressure pump and the stock intank feeding it. I wanted to know everyones opinion on that.


 255 walbro will not flow enough for 1ks nor E85


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## Darktuner (Dec 25, 2010)

wow just read every word of this thread in the last couple of days. iwas just thinking the other day i wanna try E85. got a buddy that has an evo running 12's on E85 why not try it in the Jetta. and then i find this thread. cant wait to try it and make my car a "raped ape" :laugh:. but good **** theswoleguy and everyone else in this thread a true inspiration.


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## Darktuner (Dec 25, 2010)

oh and has anyone tried using Vtune to try and run E85 on the 100oct tune and then take the main fuel scale and primary fuel adjustment down to run 91oct on the 91oct file? yeah i live in california and not too many E85 stations and we get 91 tops at most stations.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Yes there has been a dude that made it work apparently but not all Apr chipped cars will react the same to the changes made in vtune. So you cant assume you can get your setup to run smoothly on e85.


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## omerkm1 (Feb 23, 2010)

there is a guy running E85 successfully on the mk1 TT forum, stock KO4, BIG injectors. He is doing it on a GIAC flash and unisettings. it seems that if you know what you are doing in regards to tuning, then you can make it work with whatever software you want. 

I want to go a similar route but really dont know enough about tuning to do it myself. Maestro, 830 or 1000cc injectors, stock ko4, full bolt ons, E85 and drop in rods are what I am thinking for my 225TT Quattro. Just need to find a tuner. 

this is a great thread. thanks for bringing it back from the dead. :thumbup:


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

I am doing E85 capable fueling on both cars the R18 project and my MKI TT. The tt is built already just waiting on the 35R and pag vband kit to arrive. 8700 35R and corn WEEEEEE


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## Darktuner (Dec 25, 2010)

so any updates on this. im still waiting for aome extra money to pick this stuff up.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

I got my big injectors and walbo Inline waiting on fuel rail spacers, gonna tune for e85 with maestro as soon as I install it all


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Cool thread, gonna read through it all tonight


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

This thread has been way to dormate for the past 2 years. Who else is rolling on corn?


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Oh dang, I did not even realize it was that old. Wow


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Me again soon, gr35r tt

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> This thread has been way to dormate for the past 2 years. Who else is rolling on corn?


 Me, by the end of this week. Arnold said my pump is almost ready. 

Cant wait to **** all over my friend's stage whatever mk6 :laugh:


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

I run 870's @3bar on a stock TT pump. Works Fine.

I can post my timing later when I have it accessible.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Please do.

Somethings I noticed when I switched back to pump gas recently.

Timing sucks, and as a result top end pull isnt the same.

I can now hit a much higher peak boost. The gauge is off, but it would barely spike 25psi and rarely flatline the map sensor in my datalogs, but now I can bury it well past 25 psi and flatline the datalog for quite a bit.

I didnt run vvt at all when i dyno'd and still currently not. I suspect the result would be a higher torque spike.

Only did 200/254 on a mustang. At that point in time my friends golf r was stock, and could routinely **** on him at will.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Bosch 044 and Bosch Ev14 750s. I love the corn. My only complaint is the Start up sucks. It takes two cranks to start up. And I added fuel at start up and warm up. I might have added too much to warm up. Idles like ass till it warms up.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

warranty225cpe said:


> Bosch 044 and Bosch Ev14 750s. I love the corn. My only complaint is the Start up sucks. It takes two cranks to start up. And I added fuel at start up and warm up. I might have added too much to warm up. Idles like ass till it warms up.


It's always going to be a two crank start, but ooh is it worth it


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Im a cheap ass. 

2-3 fillups a week at @$45 adds up fast being a daily.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Im a cheap ass.
> 
> 2-3 fillups a week at @$45 adds up fast being a daily.


Drive a TDI :thumbup:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

4ceFed4 said:


> It's always going to be a two crank start, but ooh is it worth it


Yeah it is. But I wish I could run a priming on a timer/relay where I could adjust the priming duration. Like once I hit the unlock button on my key fob, the pump starts priming. That would be sick.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

warranty225cpe said:


> Yeah it is. But I wish I could run a priming on a timer/relay where I could adjust the priming duration. Like once I hit the unlock button on my key fob, the pump starts priming. That would be sick.


I think that if you moved the lead going to your main pump and inline from relay 87F to one that is on whenever the key is in the On position that would help. That way when you get in the car you put the key in the On position for 3-4 seconds, then start cranking. I think I might give that a shot myself anyways :thumbup:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

4ceFed4 said:


> I think that if you moved the lead going to your main pump and inline from relay 87F to one that is on whenever the key is in the On position that would help. That way when you get in the car you put the key in the On position for 3-4 seconds, then start cranking. I think I might give that a shot myself anyways :thumbup:


LOl, you know whats funny.. I shorted out a relay that would just stay in the "on" position. It would keep the pump running. I think I might try that if I can find what I did with it..


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Cold starts on corn always sucked.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Cold Starting isn't really that bad if its tuned properly. 

You need to have more control over the ecu than lemmiwinks. There is about 10 maps that relate to cold start.

I haven't worked on it yet, but I have my warm up delay setup to run out to 60 seconds and this helps. 

I still have to get the fueling during those 60sec dialed in.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Cold starting really is my only issue. But it does suck


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Bump lets get back to biznass. I got a 35r needing corn. I back baby. Oh how I've been out the loop lol tt is grumpy on straight corn. So I'm thinking [email protected] 4 bar plus 15% in lw then .ad timing and only 20psi. Let's start the discussion there. 

I think my stock fuel pump is going. Usrt needs to come the **** on 

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

That's not enough fuel for E85 with a GT35r


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Oh I need like 2k for awesome

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Josh don't mess with LW just edit the maps 

You'll prolly need bigger than 1200, Mike was maxing out 1200's on the Bullseye framed turbo.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

ejg3855 said:


> Josh don't mess with LW just edit the maps
> 
> You'll prolly need bigger than 1200, Mike was maxing out 1200's on the Bullseye framed turbo.


i cant edit maps bc uni 870 Eric, i need to source another ecu, then have you imo defeat, then we can go from there. I would probably need upwards of almost 2k though on corn.


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

I think about 4 or 5 years ago some peeps here used E85 on a Uni 630 tune but with larger injectors, I believe 870s, and IIRC more fuel pressure like maybe a 4 bar FPRplus some tweaking with Unisettings. Car ran pretty hard on a 30R.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

I'm at 14.5 psi (wg pressure) and +7.5° timing over the uni 870 file. Going for MBT then I'll start uping air until injectors start to give up the ghost to duty cycle.

I think Peter was running 30psi on pump on a similar build so I have the Def need for way more injector if 30psi is capable on pump. 

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I would imagine your pretty close already.

A friends 3076 is already maxed out with only 15psi with 1000ccs


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> I would imagine your pretty close already.
> 
> A friends 3076 is already maxed out with only 15psi with 1000ccs



That doesn't sound right at all.

I've seen 30psi on a S368 framed 1.8t with 1200's max out injectors.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

On E85?

We are calculating injector duty cycle= (ms*rpm) / 1200 correct?


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

OG gdoggmoney reporting in for duty.

I only have narrowband cars, and to the OP: I AM IN GEORGIA NOW. We should totally hang, and do ******* VW guy thangs.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

gdoggmoney said:


> OP: I AM IN GEORGIA NOW. We should totally hang, and do ******* VW guy thangs.


Is that invitation only for the OP?


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> On E85?
> 
> We are calculating injector duty cycle= (ms*rpm) / 1200 correct?


yup. ran out of fuel at 30psi on 1200's. 



gdoggmoney said:


> OG gdoggmoney reporting in for duty.
> 
> I only have narrowband cars, and to the OP: I AM IN GEORGIA NOW. We should totally hang, and do ******* VW guy thangs.





elRey said:


> Is that invitation only for the OP?



:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer: they can share and see where the night goes. ic:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

elRey said:


> Is that invitation only for the OP?




No way. :beer:


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Lol I'm down what parts of ga are you in? 

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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

theswoleguy said:


> Lol I'm down what parts of ga are you in?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


Work around Sandy Springs. Live out near Athens.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Nice I dwell in Smryna, Sandy Springs is on the top end about 15 minutes from me, 10 minutes to the hwy, 5 minutes to the northside around 285. I work in ATL, though and hardly drive the tiny mobile into the city bc twin disk blows in traffic.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Whos familiar with TT/R32 fuel tanks? Anyone off hand know if the pump can fit on the driverside? Im thinking dual pumps for straight corn and 40psi.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

ejg3855 said:


> yup. ran out of fuel:


Something isnt right, how much power did that car make?

~13.5ms @ 7500 rpm is 85%. Engine is running at 12.0:1 on E85.


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

gdoggmoney said:


> Work around Sandy Springs. Live out near Athens.


That's one hell of a commute! I live in Duluth right where I85 and 316 meets. :beer:


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

Yes twin diskbin traffic is no fun. Especially every time you have to engage first gear lol.

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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Something isnt right, how much power did that car make?
> 
> ~13.5ms @ 7500 rpm is 85%. Engine is running at 12.0:1 on E85.



I'll look for some of his G/S logs.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

T-Boy said:


> That's one hell of a commute! I live in Duluth right where I85 and 316 meets. :beer:


It is. That said I feel like I drive home to go on vacation in the boonies.


Gwinnet eh? 

We should have some sort of a 1.8T forum dirty souf meet.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

gdoggmoney said:


> We should have some sort of a 1.8T forum dirty souf meet.



 Feeling left out again. Just like the cool kids did in school.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

gdoggmoney said:


> It is. That said I feel like I drive home to go on vacation in the boonies.
> 
> 
> Gwinnet eh?
> ...





elRey said:


> Feeling left out again. Just like the cool kids did in school.


Tom just had a mtn run not to long ago, i guess it's time for round II


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

gdoggmoney said:


> It is. That said I feel like I drive home to go on vacation in the boonies.
> 
> 
> Gwinnet eh?
> ...





elRey said:


> Feeling left out again. Just like the cool kids did in school.





theswoleguy said:


> Tom just had a mtn run not to long ago, i guess it's time for round II


I'm down to meet up...and plan another mountain run...:laugh::thumbup::beer:
Got a new set of pilot sport ps2 waiting to be mounted and broken in!


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

T-Boy said:


> I'm down to meet up...and plan another mountain run...:laugh::thumbup::beer:


lets plan it not during the winter freeze we are having next week. it doesnt have to be topless weather but for christ sakes not 12°. you think i can do an entire trip on corn tom?


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

theswoleguy said:


> you think i can do an entire trip on corn tom?


NO....I looked around for corn stations up there and there are none. Your one tank of corn be a one way tank...lol :laugh:


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I have nothing prepared for a mountain run with big turbo cars. I have a stock turbo 97 B5 with sketchy subframe bushings and stock tune with a boost controller + 3" turbo back. Stock sport suspension, some poly here/there. Boring 

I'm also tied up this frosty hellish cold week.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

gdoggmoney said:


> I have nothing prepared for a mountain run with big turbo cars. I have a stock turbo 97 B5 with sketchy subframe bushings and stock tune with a boost controller + 3" turbo back. Stock sport suspension, some poly here/there. Boring
> 
> I'm also tied up this frosty hellish cold week.


youll still be faster than tom :laugh: im the only BIG turbo guy, tom has a medium framed silly 30r that spins in the mtns at 14+psi, everyone else that went last time were all NA iirc. bmw and some acura.

i need brakes (rotors and pads) first


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

theswoleguy said:


> youll still be faster than tom :laugh: im the only BIG turbo guy, tom has a medium framed silly 30r that spins in the mtns at 14+psi, everyone else that went last time were all NA iirc. bmw and some acura.
> 
> i need brakes (rotors and pads) first


Josh will be spooling while I'll be spinning. Lol :banghead:


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

ejg3855 said:


> That doesn't sound right at all.
> 
> I've seen 30psi on a S368 framed 1.8t with 1200's max out injectors.


With ID1000's @ 60psi base and 33-34psi of boost on a 5857 I was running 96% IDC up top

I'm purchasing 1600's for my 5857- you probably need 2k's if you want to make serious power on a GT35. Do you have an upgraded haldex system? This is going to be interesting...


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

T-Boy said:


> Josh will be spooling while I'll be spinning. Lol :banghead:


still makes me immediately faster, ill just stay around 5k the entire time and be ok on spool.



DougLoBue said:


> With ID1000's @ 60psi base and 33-34psi of boost on a 5857 I was running 96% IDC up top
> 
> I'm purchasing 1600's for my 5857- you probably need 2k's if you want to make serious power on a GT35. Do you have an upgraded haldex system? This is going to be interesting...


ugh this makes me :banghead: bc deep down i know it to be true probably for 40psi but i wanted to get away with 1200s @ 4bar which is like just under 1400s.


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

theswoleguy said:


> still makes me immediately faster, ill just stay around 5k the entire time and be ok on spool.
> 
> 
> .


You like doing wheelies and endo's on that stock suspension? Lol


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

T-Boy said:


> You like doing wheelies and endo's on that stock suspension? Lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Jealous... You thought I was lying about how the front end raises as boost comes on. 

For those that don't know. 
35r built motor, twin disk holding it all, stock (coming up on 13 year old) 96k mile suspension components. 

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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

DougLoBue said:


> Do you have an upgraded haldex system? This is going to be interesting...


Nope not even a controller currently. 

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## Mike Pauciullo (Jan 8, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> Work around Sandy Springs. Live out near Athens.


Are you and Josh going to make the road trip to WF this year?


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Not enough corn between here at there lol I probably couldn't make it to SoWo.

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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

theswoleguy said:


> Jealous... You thought I was lying about how the front end raises as boost comes on.
> 
> For those that don't know.
> 35r built motor, twin disk holding it all, stock (coming up on 13 year old) 96k mile suspension components.
> ...


Yeah that totally happens with the stock suspension. Rear squats too...

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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

schwartzmagic said:


> Yeah that totally happens with the stock suspension. Rear squats too...
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk


Oh man it's wild. It's like lift off. If I launch I swear the ass is inches off the pavement and the front is off road status at the top of suspension travel. 

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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

New motor mount installed. Ordered some Fuel Injector Dynamic 1200s. Hopefully this week they'll arrive and 30psi corn madness with the 35r.

Need to fix a few other items, small exhaust leak at the turbo some where. Redo the ****ty exhaust on there currently. Maybe dyno eventually. 

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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

I'll be leaking G12. drip$,. drop$, drip$. drop$!!!!

Stuttering some. Idling between 1200-1500rpm with rev hang between already lame AEB stock flywheel shifts. :facepalm:



Still love the B5 even though it hates me.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

gdoggmoney said:


> I'll be leaking G12. drip$,. drop$, drip$. drop$!!!!
> 
> Stuttering some. Idling between 1200-1500rpm with rev hang between already lame AEB stock flywheel shifts. :facepalm:
> 
> ...


vac leak?

my idle is rocky solid lol at roughly 1000, almost cant even tell the cams are there other then the little blip blip blip blip. where is the coolant leak coming from?


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

theswoleguy said:


> vac leak?
> 
> my idle is rocky solid lol at roughly 1000, almost cant even tell the cams are there other then the little blip blip blip blip. where is the coolant leak coming from?


Believe so, from the injector cups in the intake manifold. Got a spare set of unused AEB cups? 


Coolant leak appears to be o-ring inside of heater core feed coming off back of head, possibly housing too. Another at the o-ring in the hose to the upper radiator outlet -> cylinder head/plastic housing on back of head.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

gdoggmoney said:


> Believe so, from the injector cups in the intake manifold. Got a spare set of unused AEB cups?
> 
> 
> Coolant leak appears to be o-ring inside of heater core feed coming off back of head, possibly housing too. Another at the o-ring in the hose to the upper radiator outlet -> cylinder head/plastic housing on back of head.


no unused ones. i have my stock driver side manifold that may still have the cups if you want them. the sem doesnt use cups. advance sells a metrix o-ring kit, or autozone does (i think its autozone) go get a kit and get to work!


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

there is billet cups out there. 

can you just use some grease for diagnostic purposes?


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

ejg3855 said:


> there is billet cups out there.
> 
> can you just use some grease for diagnostic purposes?


verdict i think or maybe IE is who comes to mind. yea some grease should help maybe even revive the tired INJ orings.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Already did the o-rings, top and bottom. Has to be the cups :| I'll try smearing thick grease around the rims, if boost blows it out I suppose we know that is the leak.


There's an oil boost blast pattern (TM) around the ring edges..... I also get a t-body alignment code. Need a local with VAG-com to TBA the B5, you can't leave the hood open and battery/key on deal like a MKIV. Apparently a real TBA is required.


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

gdoggmoney said:


> Already did the o-rings, top and bottom. Has to be the cups :| I'll try smearing thick grease around the rims, if boost blows it out I suppose we know that is the leak.
> 
> 
> There's an oil boost blast pattern (TM) around the ring edges..... I also get a t-body alignment code. Need a local with VAG-com to TBA the B5, you can't leave the hood open and battery/key on deal like a MKIV. Apparently a real TBA is required.


I've got a VAGCOM (older version) if you need a TBA.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

T-Boy said:


> I've got a VAGCOM (older version) if you need a TBA.


VAG here as well. new and old versions lol


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

gdoggmoney said:


> Already did the o-rings, top and bottom. Has to be the cups :| I'll try smearing thick grease around the rims, if boost blows it out I suppose we know that is the leak.
> 
> 
> There's an oil boost blast pattern (TM) around the ring edges..... I also get a t-body alignment code. Need a local with VAG-com to TBA the B5, you can't leave the hood open and battery/key on deal like a MKIV. Apparently a real TBA is required.


Try Teflon tape. 

Sounds stupid but it works.

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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Dave926 said:


> Try Teflon tape.
> 
> Sounds stupid but it works.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


:thumbup::thumbup:

side note: *1200s from Fuel Injector Development* are in my mailbox at the main office, OMG OMG OMG I want to go and get them right now and swap them in!!!!! Sadly I have realized I only have a 4bar FPR at the house lol so the 30% more fuel for corn is going to look more like 1380s, which is about 250 cc more than I need. She will be a little rich I reckon. *Thanks Mike Pauciullo*

I think I will have enough room after talking to Eric for least 30psi. Now to go download his data logger he linked me too.


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## Mike Pauciullo (Jan 8, 2009)

put them to good use!


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> Try Teflon tape.
> 
> Sounds stupid but it works.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk



Good call, but not sure I can get them out in tact to do so without breaking 1997/98 plastic  I can try on a spare manifold that im modifying for a GM air intake temp sensor anyways.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

When I took the ones out of my 16v they came out in 1 piece. Half inch Allen key socket from harbor freight.

Why not use OEM ones?

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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Anyone know how to export a chart as JPEG, rather not screenshot/snippet tool.

**** it... Snipping tool it is:
First run on FID 1200s @ 4bar on straight E85. Roughly 30psi ran to 7500 rpms. IDC and Load % are secondary graph on the right. zero timing correction. 









next time i will log 011 and get BTDC and ****... this is +8.25 timing in LW ontop of Uni 870 file. I was only going to run these at 3 bar but could not find my 3 bar.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Dave926 said:


> When I took the ones out of my 16v they came out in 1 piece. Half inch Allen key socket from harbor freight.
> 
> Why not use OEM ones?
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


16v is a brass insert with plastic end up. 1.8T is complete plastic -- including the hex/sides you will be turning aginst. They are glued in and break upon removal 


So basicalyl step 1 is order 30-50$ of plastic inserts :|


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Get the aluminum ones. Be done with it. 

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Your right lol been a few years.

What about digi2 ones

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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Was a failed hose clamp, it failed and twisted apart/off under tension. It was once tight but failed.... strange eh? Looked at it, saw an air gap and oil trail out the turbine outlet to core support/intercooler inlet hose. Normal idle! Swapped out a 17 year old crank sensor for a 2 year old one. Much more solid on the idle -- no fluctuations and at times seems as if the car is not running. 


Few things down, 20 billion more to go


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

lol you wouldve found that sooner if you used the pressure tester in the faq :-D

yea i swapped mine on the TT yesrday for the one off the gti that was fairly new when i popped the motor. havent tried to start it yet though battery was dead.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

theswoleguy said:


> lol you wouldve found that sooner if you used the pressure tester in the faq :-D
> 
> yea i swapped mine on the TT yesrday for the one off the gti that was fairly new when i popped the motor. havent tried to start it yet though battery was dead.




You buttpuppet! You had to :| I don't even own one "shhh" I just prefix all the vacuum leaks. New method will include tossing all ancient hose clamps that can fail under tension. :vampire: :heart:


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

pressure tester. make one and or delete all the bullcrap


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## xSSxDevillex (Aug 29, 2014)

*e85 gone in a year huh?*

still here, at least in california.:thumbup:


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