# Battery replacement procedure



## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

*Factory Battery Specifications

Dual-battery Phaetons, except V10 TDI:*
This is the most common configuration by far. All Phaetons in North America are equipped this way from the factory. The factory starter battery may be labeled "1J0 915 105 AD" or similar. It has been superseded with the part number below. The new battery should have identical specifications.

​
*Position**Role**VW Part Number**Type**Specifications*LeftVehicle Power Supply000 915 105 CEAGM12V 92Ah 520A DIN/860A SAERightStarting000 915 105 DESLA12V 61Ah 330A DIN/540A SAE


*Dual-battery Phaetons with V10 TDI engine, or DIY retrofit upgrade:*
The V10 TDI requires more starting power, and is factory-equipped with the larger AGM battery in both positions. Any other dual-battery Phaeton can easily be upgraded with the larger battery on the right. Several owners have chosen to do just that, for extra starting power in winter and better longevity.

​
*Position**Role**VW Part Number**Type**Specifications*LeftVehicle Power Supply000 915 105 CEAGM12V 92Ah 520A DIN/860A SAERightStarting000 915 105 CEAGM12V 92Ah 520A DIN/860A SAE


*Single-battery Phaetons:*
This was an option for lower-spec cars in the original Phaeton design. However, it is incredibly rare if it was ever produced at all.

​
*Position**Role**VW Part Number**Type**Specifications*LeftVPS and Starting000 915 105 CEAGM12V 92Ah 520A DIN/860A SAERightNot InstalledN/AN/AN/A



*Important Information - Read This First (Text Adapted from the VW Service and Repair Manuals)*

The battery, in the right side of the trunk, is equipped with a battery cut-off to increase crash safety. In the event of a collision, the airbag control module triggers a separation, which disrupts the power supply wiring to the starter. The battery cut-off takes place pyrotechnically through a very small explosive charge. To prevent inadvertently triggering separation while working on the battery or batteries, or the battery cut-off, always perform the work procedure as described in the repair manual.​
*Disconnecting Sequence*
Caution: If the sequence is not followed, the pyrotechnic battery isolation system switch may trigger, which may damage electrical components in the vehicle.​​1. Disconnect the battery in the right side of the luggage compartment (negative first).​2. Disconnect the second battery in the left side of the luggage compartment (negative first).​
*Reconnecting Sequence*
Caution: If the sequence is not followed, the pyrotechnic battery isolation system switch may trigger, which may damage electrical components in the vehicle.​​1. Connect battery in left side of luggage compartment (negative last).​2. Connect battery in right side of luggage compartment (negative last).​
*Battery Tightening Specifications*
Battery terminal clamp on battery post, M6 9 Nm​Additional terminal on battery terminal clamp, M6 9 Nm​Retaining clip on body, M8x95 15 Nm​Carrier plate for E-box to body, M6 6 Nm​Wiring terminals to battery isolator, M8 20 Nm​Battery cut-off relay to holder, M6 6 Nm​Threaded connection for battery cut-off, M8 20 Nm​Battery monitoring control module to holder, M6 6 Nm​

*Resets and Calibrations After VPS Battery Replacement*

You will NOT need to do this if you're only replacing the starter battery, only the VPS battery. If your VPS battery has been disconnected or discharged, your car may emit some ABS and suspension warnings and some convenience features might not work. *Don't panic. This is normal.* Follow the procedure below and it will take care of the warnings.



Start the car and allow it to idle
Recalibrate power window one-touch up and down (repeat for all four windows)
Hold down the button to fully open the window
Hold up the button to fully close the window

Recalibrate sunroof pinch points
Fully open the sunroof
Fully close the sunroof

Recalibrate power seat soft-stop/memory (repeat for all power seats)
Use the seat forward/back button to move the seat all the way forward until it stops, and release
Press the button briefly forward again to make sure the seat is all the way forward
Use the seat forward/back button to move the seat all the way backward until it stops, and release
Press the button briefly back again to make sure the seat is all the way back

Recalibrate electronic steering column adjustment
Operate the steering column adjustment switch to move the steering column through all four axes of motion until it stops - all the way up, down, forward and back.

Recalibrate steering angle sensor (fixes ABS and air suspension warnings)
Drive ahead in a straight line for at least 15 meters. This will allow the steering angle sensor to re-learn the wheel position and bring it back online. Both faults should clear right away.




*Starter (Right) Battery Replacement / Upgrade*

Before actually installing the new battery, make sure it's fully charged. It will have been sitting on a shelf for a while and will have self-discharged somewhat. Your car's electrical system is not designed to fully charge a battery, and will not do so for almost any model car out there. For technical reasons, the Phaeton actually does a good job of charging the start battery, but like most other cars, not nearly as well for the VPS battery. That said, even for the start battery there's no reason to strain the alternator.











Remove the storage compartment on the right side of the trunk. No tools are needed, it will just pop out. You might be able to pop it out by hand, or you might need to use a trim tool. The original battery will look like this, a Varta-branded battery with a VW part number. If this isn't what you see, your battery isn't factory original or dealer installed.











Even if you don't have your car's full maintenance history, you can still find out how old your batteries are. Check the negative battery terminal and you'll see a pair of numbers stamped into the top - the week and year of manufacture.











Below is a good view of the battery isolation unit on the start battery positive terminal. It's a one-shot pyrotechnic device, like an airbag or emergency seat-belt tensioner. It severs the positive battery cable from the battery in the event of a collision.

This isn't to keep the car from (re)starting. If the car were in start-able condition, the paralleling relay would probably allow starting from the VPS battery. It's about protecting passengers and emergency-response personnel from a dangerous short-circuit and/or fire. The positive battery cable is thick as your thumb, and it runs all the way to the engine compartment, along the right edge of the floor. There's no fuses or circuit breakers in this cable. If the cable is compromised and it shorts to the car's frame, bad things happen. If the collision doesn't do it, emergency responders might cut into it when forcing the doors open. The start battery is rated for several hundred cold-cranking amps; the instant short-circuit amperage will be quite a lot more.











Disconnect the negative terminal first, and then the positive terminal. You'll also need to disconnect the vent tube.











There's a small bar on the right side of the battery, hooked down to the battery carrier on one side and held down with a bolt on the other. Remove the bolt, and the hold-down bar can be moved aside. This will free up the battery to be removed. You'll need to tilt it over to pull it out. The battery is sealed, in theory, but it contains water and you should not keep it tilted any longer than necessary.











A good view with the battery removed. In this view, the nuts have been removed from the hold-down adapter but the adapter is still sitting there. You don't need to remove the nuts, or the adapter, if you're replacing the factory battery with a like battery.

In my case, I chose to upgrade to the larger AGM battery, the same one used for the VPS battery and the same one used for the V10 TDI start battery. With the hold-down adapter removed, the battery carrier is identical to the left side and fits the AGM just fine. After you remove the hold-down adapter, reinstall those two nuts on the battery carrier.











The new AGM battery I'm using. Again, the regular process is to use the Varta SLA battery and it's perfectly normal to use that. The battery will be sold with plastic covers over the terminals, for safety. I would leave those on until the battery is installed, to avoid any accidental shorts.











The battery will have vent holes on both sides. The car will only have a vent hose on one side. You plug the side without the hose using the supplied plug.











The new battery, installed and ready. Connect the positive terminal first, then the negative. To fully seat the connections, you may need to tap them down slightly with a mallet or small hammer. Tighten to spec. If you are replacing both batteries at the same time, wait until you're done with the VPS battery before reconnecting the start battery.










No code-clearing or adaptation is needed after disconnecting just the start battery.


*Moderator's Note:*
Photos re-hosted.
Battery Replacement Procedure post content is continued in the following Post.


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

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*Moderator's Note:* The first part below is a continuation of the above Battery Replacement Procedure post. Zaphh's post is below that. My apologies to Zaphh - I am sorry to push your comment down the page, but the new Forum Software limits any new post to 22 photos, so when I re-hosted the previous post's 29 photos they over-ran.
Chris
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*Continuation of jyoung8607's Battery Replacement Procedure post:*
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*Vehicle Power Supply (Left) Battery Replacement*

Below is the VPS battery, below the relay carrier on the left side of the trunk.











The AGM battery and its part number. It's important to use this exact battery. I think some older Phaetons might have the same type and size of AGM battery with a slightly lower rating, but if you order a new battery today, the one you get will have the higher rating.

Just like the new start battery process above, you should fully charge your new battery before installing it. This is especially critical for the VPS battery, as the vehicle electrical system will *not* fully charge it.











A view of the negative terminal, similar to the starter battery. Same date information, etc.











The TPMS controller can be detached from the bottom of the relay carrier and set aside, to make the rest of the process easier.











The relay carrier needs to be removed and set aside. There's a release clip that needs to be pressed in on both the left and right sides, and then the relay carrier can be slid up slightly and removed.




















Skipping ahead slightly, this is the panel the relay carrier is secured to. This gives a clear view of the release clips R1 and R2, and the slots for the relay carrier pegs 1, 2 and 3.











The relay carrier, once detached, can be pulled out of the battery compartment.











The wiring bundle can be taken out of the wire-management clips on top of the relay carrier, to give you more flexibility in moving it aside. You won't be removing the wiring itself, but you'll have enough slack to get the relay carrier out of the way.











The relay carrier mounting panel needs to be removed. It clips on at the bottom as shown. Then, it needs to pivot up about 45 degrees to unhook it from the top.











A view of things with the mounting panel removed, and the battery disconnected. As a reminder, remove the negative terminal first and the positive terminal last. As a further reminder, disconnect the starter battery before the VPS battery.

Because the battery cables are very stiff, you may have to loosen the battery paralleling relay and shift it upward to get enough clearance. Remove the nuts N1 and N2. You don't need to remove the entire assembly from the car, just detach it and shift it upward.











Battery hold-down bar on the right side of the battery, same as the starter battery. With this bolt removed, the battery can be removed from the car. The VPS battery will be even heavier than the start battery, so be careful. Fortunately, the AGM type battery won't be very sensitive to tilt.

If you don't want the label scraped up, you might place a towel or something on the battery compartment ledge when you're putting the new battery in.











Various views of the battery compartment with the battery removed.






































The battery management controller. Many of you have needed to replace this component.











Another new battery, yay! The vent hose is on the left, same as the start battery, so be sure to install the vent plug on the right.











After the new battery is installed, reconnect the batteries in sequence - VPS battery, then start battery.

When you start the car after replacing the VPS battery, you'll get some complaints from from the stability control and level control systems. *Don't Panic.* Both will clear after a short drive. You'll need to re-adapt the window automatic close function, which you can do just by fully opening and closing the windows once. You'll need to do the same for the sunroof, and the same for the power-open trunk if you have that option.

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*Moderator's Note:
End of inserted over-run from the previous post, with photos re-hosted.*
Chris
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*From Zaphh:*

This will be useful to many !

Thanks !

P.


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Fantastic write up. thanks. If anyof you have Acrobat, I recommend you convert this thread to a PDF and archive it. I've already done it!!

Regards
Mike


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Fantastic photo's with extremely good lighting! I'll be sure to use your write-up when changing the battery.

Thanks!
Willem


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## aubergine2004 (Oct 2, 2009)

*non agm big one : OEM on an early 2004 v8?*

I changed my battery yesterday. I noticed the old one was just a simple lead acid battery (the big one) not an agm like it should be. But it also appeared to be a real oem vw battery (from johnson controls). Has anybody seen this?


-Paul


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

aubergine2004 said:


> I changed my battery yesterday. I noticed the old one was just a simple lead acid battery (the big one) not an agm like it should be. But it also appeared to be a real oem vw battery (from johnson controls). Has anybody seen this?
> 
> 
> -Paul


Odd. I assume you're talking about the VPS (left) battery. Did you happen to take a picture of the old one?

I can't think of why someone would pay a VW dealer, or VW parts counter prices for a battery and then get the wrong one.


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## EricAdams (Oct 5, 2009)

Hi all--I picked up my new left-side battery this afternoon and hope to install this evening. (2005 V8) I'm confused about one thing: is it necessary to disconnect the right-side battery if you're only replacing the left side? I seem to recall seeing somewhere here that it was NOT necessary--because that's how you can do it without wiping your settings—and when I mentioned to the local Phaeton tech that I wanted to do it myself, he didn't mention that step. Yet this pyrotechnic thing has me worried, of course.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Eric,

I suggest you adhere to the recommended procedure, especially where pyrotechnics are involved! When I had them both disconnected last, only the interior lights needed an on-off, and one seat needed cycling from end to end.

Chris


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## EricAdams (Oct 5, 2009)

I did it! Without blowing my head off. Yay me!

The previously installed battery (2009) was considerably smaller. I tried uploading a photo comparison but don't have time to sort out this system. At any rate, it was clearly a substandard substitution. Glad I've got the right piece in there now--and I'm sure my little car-passes-out if left alone for a few days thing is behind me.

Thanks for the photos and advice, all.

EA


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

EricAdams said:


> I did it! Without blowing my head off. Yay me!
> 
> The previously installed battery (2009) was considerably smaller. I tried uploading a photo comparison but don't have time to sort out this system. At any rate, it was clearly a substandard substitution. Glad I've got the right piece in there now--and I'm sure my little car-passes-out if left alone for a few days thing is behind me.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you survived the process. 

For benefit of other readers, yes, you should disconnect the start battery before the VPS battery as the factory manuals say. I've disconnected the VPS battery alone in the past, before I read up on the right procedure. The car was clearly trying to do stuff in response. There will be some arcing as you move the battery connection lugs around, and I could hear the paralleling relay switching the start battery in and out in response. The airbag controller (which owns the start battery separation pyro) would be seeing some crazy voltage fluctuations, which can't be a good thing. And, add the possibility of VPS dead-short or reverse-polarity accident while parts of the car are "awake" on the starter battery... one could easily imagine a Poor Outcome.

Jason


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks Jason - that's strengthened my resolve to do it right!


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

jyoung8607 said:


> I'm glad you survived the process.
> 
> For benefit of other readers, yes, you should disconnect the start battery before the VPS battery as the factory manuals say. I've disconnected the VPS battery alone in the past, before I read up on the right procedure. The car was clearly trying to do stuff in response. There will be some arcing as you move the battery connection lugs around, and I could hear the paralleling relay switching the start battery in and out in response. The airbag controller (which owns the start battery separation pyro) would be seeing some crazy voltage fluctuations, which can't be a good thing. And, add the possibility of VPS dead-short or reverse-polarity accident while parts of the car are "awake" on the starter battery... one could easily imagine a Poor Outcome.
> 
> Jason


Jason:

Thanks for the detailed post. I just wish I had remembered it when I recently replaced my VPS battery. In this process I escaped one of those "poor outcomes" recently when doing this. I was removing my VPS battery, without first disconnecting the starter battery, and had a momentary short. This was due to all the twisting and turning of the battery to get it out of the hole. Scared me to death, but all seems to be OK.

Michael(Paneuropean) has always strongly recommended to replace batteries with OEM Vartas. I've always felt that all 12 volt batteries have 6 cells that have 2.1 volts per cell when fully charged for 12.6 volts. So if battery capacity is up to Phaeton requirements any "good" battery will work. Of course if AGM is required, replace with AGM of equal or superior capacity. What had impressed me most about Varta batteries was their consistent long lives. There are many stories of 7 or 8 year old Varta AGM batteries still in Phaetons. My original Varta lasted almost 6 years. Nevertheless a little over 3 years ago, I replaced my AGM Varta with a direct replacement Deka. Recently my Deka was becoming suspect and didn't seem to want to hold a charge so I decided to replace it. Decision time again. Despite believing Michael's advise is very good, I cheaped out and bought a Sear's Diehard AGM. The VW dealer quoted me $225 for their battery, which was sourced through Interstate, and the Sears AGM Series 49 direct replacement battery was $134.99 on sale. The AGM Diehard is regularly $179.99. Nevertheless, looking back Michael would have been right. My Deka experience has surely been more expensive than just biting the bullet and buying the Varta 3 years ago. That doesn't even include the fact that I had to "prematurely" replace the Deka. Anyone that has done the VPS battery replacement knows that you don't want to do this very often.

Jim X


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

A query was raised in another thread about the amount of force required to remove the trim panel covering the right battery compartment (VW call it the 'second' battery, Bentley Motors call it the Starter battery).

This is the appropriate place to post re-assurance that you only have to overcome the pressure of the clips, as shown in the diagram below. It is unlikely that any clips or trim will break.

Chris


*Right battery trim cover removal*








image (c) volkswagen


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Paximus said:


> A query was raised in another thread about the amount of force required to remove the trim panel covering the right battery compartment (VW call it the 'second' battery, Bentley Motors call it the Starter battery).
> 
> This is the appropriate place to post re-assurance that you only have to overcome the pressure of the clips, as shown in the diagram below. It is unlikely that any clips or trim will break.
> 
> ...


Chris - we seem to have lost a number of your pictures from your posts... do we need a whip round to pay your picture hosting charges??


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Mike,

My hosting company's automated systems archived my data unexpectedly, however they are 'doing their best' to restore it. Each email from them triggers a 72-hour delay as this is escalated through the ranks to the next level. I am hopeful that we are now nearing the top of the food chain. 

Chris


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks Chris. good to know. Wouldn't want to lose all this important stuff!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Jason:

Just a note to say "Thank you very much" for letting us all know that a 'large size' battery (same as the left side battery) will fit in the right hand (starter battery) position of the North American cars if the adapter plate is removed.

My car was a bit sluggish starting tonight (I left it parked outside in cold weather), and when I got home, I thought it would be a good idea to charge up the right side battery. I had a close look, and was very surprised to see that I still had the original battery - dating from week 34 of 2003 - present in the right side of my car. I thought I replaced that thing a long time ago... guess not. Anyway, I ordered a new large size (left size size) battery from my VW dealer today. When it comes in, I'll put the new battery on the left side of the car, because that's the battery that gets used the most, and I will move the existing left side battery (which is only 3 years old) over to the right side position.

Thanks again for the excellent info in your original post.

Michael


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Do we know if the batteries we buy in NA are the same as the original equipment? I'm curious because my first LH battery lasted at least 6 years and the second one is bad after 4. I'm thinking if I buy a Diehard or Duralast, it's likely to be identical to the VW battery anyway, sans the label. I'm disinclined to shell out the $100 label charge if that's the only difference.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

To the best of my knowledge, they are identical to the OEM ones. I just ordered a new left battery yesterday, I will take pictures of it (top and side labels) when it arrives and post them here. Hopefully the label will indicate the country of origin.

Michael


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantrellc123/9405776734/

Here is a link to the pic of the LH battery I installed in August 2013. It's an OEM replacement from VW.

Cantrell


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yep, that's a Varta, which I think must have come from Europe.

Edit: After looking at the picture, I was able to find the Varta label on mine.


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## barrier12 (Feb 1, 2009)

Next battery I am going to put in my Passat is going to be something made by *Exide*. I mentioned before that I changed my OE battery in the winter 2007-2008, was concerned with low temperatures of this winter, but battery seems to do very well, started at 9*F and still work without a problem. If they have Phaetons' batteries, I would suggest check them out. 

They have rebates now:

http://www.exide.com/us/en/product-...tions-and-rebates/start-positive-rewards.aspx


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

PanEuropean said:


> Hi Jason:
> 
> Just a note to say "Thank you very much" for letting us all know that a 'large size' battery (same as the left side battery) will fit in the right hand (starter battery) position of the North American cars if the adapter plate is removed.


Thank you for your kind words.



PanEuropean said:


> My car was a bit sluggish starting tonight (I left it parked outside in cold weather), and when I got home, I thought it would be a good idea to charge up the right side battery. I had a close look, and was very surprised to see that I still had the original battery - dating from week 34 of 2003 - present in the right side of my car. I thought I replaced that thing a long time ago... guess not. Anyway, I ordered a new large size (left size size) battery from my VW dealer today. When it comes in, I'll put the new battery on the left side of the car, because that's the battery that gets used the most, and I will move the existing left side battery (which is only 3 years old) over to the right side position.


I think that is a good idea, now and ongoing. We had discussed something similar in another thread a couple weeks ago. It's a cost-effective way to keep both batteries reasonably fresh.

Jason


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Well... the battery I ordered from my VW dealer arrived last Friday, so, I dropped around to the dealership this past weekend to install it.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I _thought _I had already replaced the right side (starter) battery once during my ownership of the car, but after looking at the date stamp on the battery post (34/03), it was pretty clear that I still had the original factory-installed starter battery in my car, 11 years after the car was built. I'm honestly quite amazed that the battery still worked (the little 'eye' on it was green, and it tested satisfactorily with the Midtronics tester). Nevertheless, I don't want to get stuck somewhere on a cold winter's morning, so, I decided to replace it as "preventative maintenance".

Jason discovered that we can put a large size (same size as the left side) battery in the right side position by simply removing a little spacer plate that is installed in the forward end of the right side battery tray. So, I ordered a large size (left side size) battery to put in the right side position. It cost me $190, I don't know what the price of the small battery would have been. The process of retrofitting the large battery in place of the small one was relatively simple, but I learned a few lessons from the "School of Hard Knocks" that I would like to share with anyone else who plans to do the same thing:

*1)* The negative cable on the starter battery is not very long, nor is it very flexible. It attaches to a stud welded to the aft face of the right rear wheel-well. That stud is not the strongest part of the car. The negative battery cable is about 10 times thicker (in other words, 10 times stronger, and 10 times less flexible) than the stud that it attaches to. So, don't be too rough when you are manipulating the negative battery cable after you have removed the clamp end of it from the negative battery post. If you twist it too hard, or move it an unreasonable amount, you will break the stud off from the body of the car, and it is a massive PITA to have to weld that stud back on again. Ask me how I know... 

*2)* The easiest way to remove the spacer plate from the right side battery tray is to remove the entire tray assembly (complete with spacer plate) from the vehicle, then whack it once on the floor. You must (at a minimum) remove two of the four fasteners that hold the right side battery tray in place in order to remove the spacer plate - so, you might as well remove the other two also (the two at the back end), then lift the whole right side battery tray out of the car and then remove the spacer plate from it. On my car, the spacer plate had become wedged into place in the plastic battery tray, and it took a good whack to get it out.

*3)* It's best to have two people when the time comes to actually put the (new) large battery into position: one person to hold the positive and negative cables out of the way, and another person to manouver the very heavy battery into place.

*4)* The large battery fits into the right side cavity just fine, no problems there, but it is then quite a challenge to get your hand into the very small space remaining aft of the new battery to install the battery hold-down bracket. If you have a friend with small hands who can assist you, that will make things a lot easier.

Here are a few pictures - these are intended to compliment, not replace, the pictures Jason posted above.

*Some detail showing the spacer plate used when a small battery is fitted. Also, the rather fragile stud.*


*Size Comparison of the OEM 'small' starter battery (fitted to all engines except V10 TDI) and the 'large' size battery (fitted to V10 TDI, and retrofittable to all)
*

*It is amazing that the original right side battery lasted 11 years...
*

*What it looks like after the large battery is installed in the right side position.
*

Michael


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Michael,
It is quite likely that you are aware of this, but I believe it is worth mentioning.
If you broke and welded the negative threaded stud onto the whee wheel it is most likely that the coating on the outer side of the wheel wheel has burnt and peeled off. So perhaps you would be better off removing the wheel wheel liner and check the condition of that area and if needed, recoat it to avoid corrosion.

Gabriel


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Nice write-up! I finally admitted defeat today in my battery resurrection attempts and used these instructions to fit a new one. 

Couple of things to add: 

The battery bar bolt is 13mm, everything else is 10mm. 

The nuts holding the relay are a pain, at least on my car. They're held in place by a spring clip, after a lot of trying to get them off without understanding how they were held in, I lifted the spring clip, let the nut drop out, then took the spring clip off. I left the top one on and just rotated the relay up a bit, it didn't need to move far to give me clearance.

I think it was Jim X that complained this was a bitch of a job, and it's certainly awkward at the very least. I needed a breaker bar for the battery bar bolt, and when I first tried to move the battery I thought there was no way I was ever going to get it out. After some perseverance I did eventually manage it, but not without getting it nearly horizontal, which probably isn't good. Getting it back in required having someone hold the fuse box out of the way while I wedged the battery in.

The fuse box carrier was already broken, making it a little more difficult to remove. That battery has only been previously changed once, by the dealer..... it's a $60 part despite just being cheap plastic.

I was tempted to go with an aftermarket battery, Sears had one for $140, but decided to call the dealer first. They happened to have one in stock and price matched 1stvwparts, so I got the VW battery for $212.

The battery that came out had a date on it of 03/09, which means it was already a year old when it was installed. I checked the new one before handing over my credit card, it was dated 08/13.

I forgot to disconnect the starter battery first, hopefully it hasn't caused any problems, however the supply mode on my CTEK charger didn't work and I'm wondering if that might be something to do with the other battery still being present. There was some sort of relay clicking from the RH side and then the charger red light came on. The new battery is currently on charge (has been for 3 hours now, and it's still not fully charged), so I don't know yet what's going to happen when I reconnect it, since the car's currently dead.

In retrospect, if you can get a decent quote from the dealer to do the job, I'd be inclined to take it, especially if you don't have strong arms and someone to help!


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## barrier12 (Feb 1, 2009)

I am not sure how accurate this info is, but I read on the web, that stickers, which you see on the battery, like 08/13 actually tell the date battery was re-charged. Manufacturing date buried in the long number on the battery with A standing for Jan, B for Feb etc and year shown as one number, for example, if long number on the battery contain C2, it was manufactured in March of 2012.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

invisiblewave said:


> I think it was Jim X that complained this was a bitch of a job, and it's certainly awkward at the very least. I needed a breaker bar for the battery bar bolt, and when I first tried to move the battery I thought there was no way I was ever going to get it out. After some perseverance I did eventually manage it, but not without getting it nearly horizontal, which probably isn't good. Getting it back in required having someone hold the fuse box out of the way while I wedged the battery in.


I couldn't agree more. I should amend my write-up to show "profanity" as a required tool.

The AGM battery won't really mind being on its side. The SLA start battery might be a different matter but a few seconds while tilting it in won't be a problem.



invisiblewave said:


> I forgot to disconnect the starter battery first, hopefully it hasn't caused any problems, however the supply mode on my CTEK charger didn't work and I'm wondering if that might be something to do with the other battery still being present. There was *some sort of relay clicking from the RH side* and then the charger red light came on. The new battery is currently on charge (has been for 3 hours now, and it's still not fully charged), so I don't know yet what's going to happen when I reconnect it, since the car's currently dead.


Strange. All three relays (two small, one big) are on the left side. Are you sure it came from the right?

How did you have your CTEK hooked up? Clipped onto the battery cables, or using one of their adapters into a 12V outlet? Anyway, I would avoid that sort of thing. It's not necessary and it may compromise safety. Yes, the car will freak out at you at first startup, but it takes all of three minutes to complete the necessary adaptations.

The instructions to disconnect the starter battery first were in bright red letters in the repair manual. I would really suggest observing that precaution. You say you haven't installed your new VPS battery just yet -- I would strongly suggest disconnecting your starter battery before doing so.

Jason


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

invisiblewave said:


> however the supply mode on my CTEK charger didn't work


Could be because the CTEK can't pump out enough power to supply the standing load. I believe the standing cold load on a Phaeton is itro 30A- my CTEk will only do 7A... so I wouldn't expect it to float the car without the battery.



invisiblewave said:


> In retrospect, if you can get a decent quote from the dealer to do the job, I'd be inclined to take it, especially if you don't have strong arms and someone to help!


I always recommend using a forum moderator for this job. They are effective and durable, and only need the occasional pint of india pale ale to keep them running.

Regards

M


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

jyoung8607 said:


> I couldn't agree more. I should amend my write-up to show "profanity" as a required tool.
> 
> The AGM battery won't really mind being on its side. The SLA start battery might be a different matter but a few seconds while tilting it in won't be a problem.
> 
> ...


The noises from the right were more like clicks than clunks. I'm thoroughly confused about the battery relaying. I think I know the theory but it just doesn't seem to tally with what actually happens. Firstly, on starting, the clunk definitely seems to come from the back right, and secondly, I get that clunk occasionally on starting even when I know the RH battery is good. Does the relay operate solely to start the car in the case of a low RH battery, or does it also kick in to support a weak LH battery during the initialization process??

I'm about to reconnect the LH battery and had already decided to disconnect the RH terminal before doing so, but thanks for the warning!

I hooked the CTEK directly to the battery cables using their supplied eyelet cable (which I had to modify because the screw terminals are designed not to come off completely).


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

n968412L said:


> Could be because the CTEK can't pump out enough power to supply the standing load. I believe the standing cold load on a Phaeton is itro 30A- my CTEk will only do 7A... so I wouldn't expect it to float the car without the battery.
> 
> M


I wondered the same thing, and from the symptoms, that's what it looked like. It tried, failed, and crapped out.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

barrier12 said:


> I am not sure how accurate this info is, but I read on the web, that stickers, which you see on the battery, like 08/13 actually tell the date battery was re-charged. Manufacturing date buried in the long number on the battery with A standing for Jan, B for Feb etc and year shown as one number, for example, if long number on the battery contain C2, it was manufactured in March of 2012.


I had a good look, and the only thing I could see was the sticker. There don't appear to be dates stamped on the terminals on either the old or new batteries.

It definitely needed charging. I started last night about teatime and by bedtime it was still showing orange on the charger. It was green this morning, and measured 13.17V, which is 0.6V higher than the best I got out of the old one while I was trying to resurrect it. I probably would have persevered a bit longer with the old one, but once I'd got a good price on a replacement and they had it in stock, it was like an itch I needed to scratch....


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The car came successfully back to life after reattaching life support. Just the usual level fault workshop on the dash which disappeared as soon as I moved. I did disconnect the RH battery prior to connecting the LH.

Edit: Had to run the sunroof adaptation procedure, well half of it. After opening, it wouldn't close all the way. To re-adapt, just push upwards and forwards on the front of the rotary dial (this is the emergency close method). Once it had closed it worked as normal. There's a fuller adaptation procedure in the FAQ, but I didn't need the second part.


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

Thank you for this excellent write up. Made switching out the 11 year old Varta a breeze. Locally cold temps caused negative strap reconnect challege due to stiffness. That and the mass of the big AGM we're the main challenges. 

Thanks again,
Kurt

PS first post responce using Topify app on android tablet... Pretty nifty!

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

n968412L said:


> I always recommend using a forum moderator for this job. They are effective and durable, and only need the occasional pint of india pale ale to keep them running.
> 
> Regards
> 
> M


Couldn't get my hands on a forum moderator this morning...so I swapped the LH battery on the V6 myself. With the benefit of having seen it being done a couple of years ago, and with this write up, it was quite straightforward... but everything sure fits snugly.

I still struggled with getting the fuse/relay holder released - so I've included some additional photos that show how it is mounted/fastened with three collared lugs fitting into three keyhole slots. When the clips are relased (don't need much effort or movement, the fuse holder needs to slide up vertically enough (5mm?) for the collars to fit through the circular part of the key hole slots. I think knowing this is what I was trying to do would have made it even easier.

<a href="http://s771.photobucket.com/user/n968412L/media/P1010024_zps5135eeac.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx354/n968412L/P1010024_zps5135eeac.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo P1010024_zps5135eeac.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s771.photobucket.com/user/n968412L/media/P1010025_zpse29e718a.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx354/n968412L/P1010025_zpse29e718a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo P1010025_zpse29e718a.jpg"/></a>


<a href="http://s771.photobucket.com/user/n968412L/media/P1010027_zps9a3189dd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx354/n968412L/P1010027_zps9a3189dd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo P1010027_zps9a3189dd.jpg"/></a>


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

It's a pity my dealer didn't check your photos when they changed the first battery. They broke the bracket when they did the job.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

n968412L said:


> I still struggled with getting the fuse/relay holder released - so I've included some additional photos that show how it is mounted/fastened with three collared lugs fitting into three keyhole slots. When the clips are released (don't need much effort or movement, the fuse holder needs to slide up vertically enough (5mm?) for the collars to fit through the circular part of the key hole slots. I think knowing this is what I was trying to do would have made it even easier.


Hi Mike:

Thanks for posting that information and the photos. There is a post in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category) that provides similar information - it is post #26 on the J367 Battery Monitoring Controller – how to replace discussion - but it helps a lot that you have put the photos and information about releasing that relay panel here in the battery replacement discussion.

My experience (from looking at other people's Phaetons) is that the bracket that holds the relay panel attached to the side of the vehicle is often broken when replacing the battery, probably because the repair manual does not provide clear instructions explaining how to release the relay panel. Fortunately, the bracket that holds the relay panel in place is not an expensive part.

Michael


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

PanEuropean said:


> Hi Mike:
> 
> There is a post in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category) that provides similar information - it is post #26 on the J367 Battery Monitoring Controller – how to replace discussion - but it helps a lot that you have put the photos and information about releasing that relay panel here in the battery replacement discussion.


Ah - yes... I remember I thought there was some more detailed info somewhere... I should have remembered the charger control thread. 

Post #25 on that thread, note 3, suggests you need a screwdriver or similar to press the left hand (ie rear) tab... I had no trouble depressing it with my index finger.. in fact I used the index finger on both hands on the tabs.. I didn't at that time understand the balance between backward force on the tabs and upward force on the relay carrier.... it's easier when you've done it once!

Regards
M


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## ddantes (May 14, 2012)

Hi,

Since i'm exploring on changing my left hand battery, i came across 2 VW dealers that were very sure about a special procedure that must be taken care after a battery replacement, that involves writing something with the diagnostic tool that must be online with the factory and add something and so on... I'm not sure if i can believe this since for Phaeton i don't know about something like that...just for Audi A6, A8...those yes... 
And also both of them stated that for Phaeton and for Touareg there are no replacement batteries other than OE ones.... 

Since it's hard for me to believe such things, mostly because dealers tend to do everything to sell only their stuff and because...there are only batteries, maybe someone knows about this?

Thanks,
Daniel


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

ddantes said:


> there are only batteries, maybe someone knows about this?
> 
> l




I have had 4 Phaeton in my family, and have personally changed batteries in 3 of them myself.. it truly doesn't matter.. just swap em.


Kinda like the jack mode... doesn't matter. yea the car may sag when you let it down off the lift.. but start it and it rises back up.. 


German minds work oddly..


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## arthurgodsake (Nov 26, 2010)

Hi all
Does anyone who lives near me (North Hampshire, UK) know how to change the LHS battery? I'd quite like to have a go at it but would love some help from someone who knows what to do. The usual lunch/drinkies on offer and all help much appreciated. I'm thinking of buying the Varta G14 AGM.
Cheers
Tim


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Tim, it's not a technically difficult procedure, but it does help to have four hands (and gloves). You'll also need an extension bar to get to the bracket bolt. The only really difficult part is getting the new battery back in place without lying it on its side, which is where an extra pair of hands comes in handy.


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

It's true.. it's not hard... but it's a bit of a struggle.. and certainly it really helps to have done it once... or seen it done. If I was a bit nearer I'd come.. but it's a bit of a step for me...

Good luck.

M


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

ddantes said:


> Since i'm exploring on changing my left hand battery, i came across 2 VW dealers that were very sure about a special procedure that must be taken care after a battery replacement, that involves writing something with the diagnostic tool that must be online with the factory and add something and so on... I'm not sure if i can believe this since for Phaeton i don't know about something like that...just for Audi A6, A8...those yes...


Not sure what that's about. Some Audis do indeed have battery management controllers that want to know the battery manufacturer and even the serial number, and do require reprogramming when the battery is replaced. The Phaeton battery management controller doesn't do that, and the factory documented procedure doesn't mention anything about it. There's some procedures you go through to make sure various things are set up and calibrated, but none absolutely require diagnostic tools.



ddantes said:


> And also both of them stated that for Phaeton and for Touareg there are no replacement batteries other than OE ones....


You can certainly get aftermarket batteries of equivalent size and specification. You do have to do some shopping. The starter battery isn't very sensitive and it's quite common. The vehicle power supply battery *must* be AGM, and it's a less common size. I find it easier to just use batteries from the dealer. Once you're into AGM batteries of that size, aftermarket isn't really any cheaper, so why bother?



PowerDubs said:


> Kinda like the jack mode... doesn't matter. yea the car may sag when you let it down off the lift.. but start it and it rises back up..


I think that's less about the car's level, and more about safety. If it's up on the widow-maker on the side of the road, it may start shifting around. That almost caused me a, uh, serious problem soon after I bought the car. If it's up on a lift and a technician has a hand in a tight place working on the suspension, re-leveling could result in a nasty pinch or a serious injury.

Jason


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

Changed my battery a few months ago. Pain to do and scraped knuckles, but not difficult. Needed to reset windows, seat memories, and had all the alarms raise in the vcds. Also had to carry out a boot learning reset. You need a good back, and strong hands. I've replaced mine with an EXIDE agm £104 trade.
Darren


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That was pretty much my experience too, not technically difficult but I skinned my knuckles and called upon the full spectrum of British exclamations. The only electronics I had trouble with afterwards were the windows and the sunroof, both were "fixed" by opening and closing. That price is about the same as the aftermarket ones I looked at here, they're quite a bit lower than the quoted dealer price, but my dealer agreed to a price match.


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## entwisi (Feb 19, 2013)

Did mine over Xmas, just got a AGM battery from my local motor factors ( 150 quid all in ). Took far longer getting the bleeding relay/fuse board out the way than any other part of the whole darn procedure, even then I think it was more luck than judgement when it finally gave in. I did a quick bit of research and AGM batteries are not as sensitive to be laid on their sides especially for the few seconds that it takes to wriggle it into place. It wasn't completely on its side either and seems to be perfectly fine since.

I do want to say thanks for the forum write up with pictures, I took my tablet out to the car with me and having the step by step really helped...


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi,
For some reason I don't have Year writing on the terminals.







What's does that mean? Maybe those batteries are no Good?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The north american batteries don't have it, they have that sticker instead, that battery looks as if it's 2 years old.


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## arthurgodsake (Nov 26, 2010)

Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for help. I get the feeling that the general consensus is that four hands are better than two, but no one lives near enough to help. I think I will get my local specialist to do it - and watch.
Cheers
Tim


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## barrier12 (Feb 1, 2009)

invisiblewave said:


> The north american batteries don't have it, they have that sticker instead, that battery looks as if it's 2 years old.


Wild guess, it may have been manufactured on week 50 of 2012(if they use stamp structure similar to tires) and charged/re-charged in Feb 2013?



arthurgodsake said:


> Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for help. I get the feeling that the general consensus is that four hands are better than two, but no one lives near enough to help. I think I will get my local specialist to do it - and watch.
> Cheers
> Tim


I would not just watch, I would WATCH. I went for oil change at local _PepBoys_, was standing nearby readily available to tell or show if there are any questions(I told "mechanic" I am the owner and could help, if necessary). Probably lost 2 years of my life seeing treatment. Hood strut gave up after 12 years, ok, it happens, no biggie. Hood slammed and partially broke oil cap because it was laying right under the hood hook/latch(why would you put it there???) They came with replacement cap, which did not fit(!?), both mechanic and manager were about to use pliers(!!!), after removing gasket, so it would fit(!!!). The way employee started oil change(he positioned himself, like he was ready to tear car apart; he did not see oil filter on the right, so he tried to remove cover on the left)... I asked for another employee to finish such complicated and unusual procedure as oil change on 12 year old Passat.

There was woman in waiting room, she was waiting for her car and she was READING MAGAZINE!!! I thought I would like to be in your shoes and not to worry what they are doing over there.

If you want it done right...


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## starosta (Nov 25, 2014)

Hi, what is your postcode? I have done it twice with my car so maybe I can help. When you will be replacing battery, it will be good to check what battery controller you have got. I do have one if you need to replace it for upgraded one.


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## arthurgodsake (Nov 26, 2010)

starosta said:


> Hi, what is your postcode? I have done it twice with my car so maybe I can help. When you will be replacing battery, it will be good to check what battery controller you have got. I do have one if you need to replace it for upgraded one.


Do you mean me? If so, PM me please.
Tim


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## maxwall1959 (Feb 17, 2015)

Bought my 2005 Phaeton 3.2 v6 last year and instantly fell in love with it. It wasn't long before i started get warning messages about drive train faults etc - so after a bit of research i decided to change the left side battery - got a "H3 100Ah VARTA 595 901 085 UK PART NO. 019 START STOP PLUS BATTERY" off E-Bay - fully charged it overnight and fitted it - ended up with torn muscles in my lower back - but 9 months later all is fine. Have i got it wrong but if you switch the ignition on without starting the engine does the volt meter show the reading for the left battery - because before I changed mine it was showing 10v and now its 13.5


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

It took about an hour to put in the large battery on the right side.

Pepboys has a 35% discount on the Bosch Platinum Series AGM Battery Group Size H8/L5/49. 35FORALL is the promo code till August 2nd. And there is a rebate from Bosch for $25 limited to one battery.

Only the trunk needed adaptation in my case. I wonder if it is really necessary to disconnect the positive wire on the left battery.

There was one weirdness leading up to this. My son couldn't start the car. He tried right-left-right with the key. No go. He took out the Powerstation PSX that I keep in the trunk of each car and tried to jump it from under the hood as I had shown him. It still wouldn't start, even with right-left-right. I wonder if it would have worked if he had left it on longer? 

So I had him take the battery cover off the right battery and connect the power to the battery directly. The car almost had enough power to start. Then he did right-left-right and it started. The bad battery was a Varta which has 26 and 04 clearly stamped on the terminal. I thought I had put a new battery in it when I bought it but I guess that I must have only replaced the left battery right after I purchased the car. Three Phaetons with two batteries each is confusing. I am astonished that it lasted 11 years. I thought it was five years old.

One of my other Phaetons had a dealer installed replacement right battery that lasted slightly longer than the warranty of three years. It also wouldn't do the right-left-right drill. It was after that I put a PowerStation in each trunk with a bungy cord in front and another in back to keep it from sliding around. The tiedowns on the sides of the trunk are good attach points for the bungy cords, which I think were 36 or 40 inches long.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

You have AGM batteries in both sides?


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Yes. I love symmetry. I'm ready to put in the V-10 engine now. Ok, I jest. But it is interesting that the V-10 has the dual large AGMs, but the W-12 doesn't'.

Jyoung did it and the 1st, 8th and 10th photos on Post 1 showed it was AGM.

PanEuropean also showed the AGM in the second and fourth photos in post 24. I miss Michael. I wonder if a new Phaeton in North America would bring him back?


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## keveola (May 5, 2015)

Is there a downside to having AGM-batteries on both sides?

Pep-Boys deal looks pretty good!


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

I'll try to report back here in future. In the interim, Jason Young and Michael Moore might weigh in. 

And the person who purchased Michael's car might also have an opinion. Also the V-10 drivers outside NA.

I don't think charging it with the alternator should be an issue as the V-10s have dual AGM.

Here is a quote from Jason in Post 1.

"Dual-battery Phaetons with V10 TDI engine, or DIY retrofit upgrade:
The V10 TDI requires more starting power, and is factory-equipped with the larger AGM battery in both positions. Any other dual-battery Phaeton can easily be upgraded with the larger battery on the right. Several owners have chosen to do just that, for extra starting power in winter and better longevity."


The Varta at 11 years old certainly didn't owe me anything. I am not complaining. I do wonder however if the right-left-right procedure might work better with dual AGMs. Twice, in two different cars when I have needed it, the procedure didn't work. One with a three year old battery and the other 11 years old. I wonder if the typical AGM battery failures might allow the procedure to work more reliably when you need it. I am not a battery pro but if this works well, I will probably do the same with the other cars as well.


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## keveola (May 5, 2015)

*Pep-Boys deal*

The local store showed a non-discounted price of $219 and change, so say $220. The 35% discount drops the price to $143 +/-. The catch is, the battery has to be bought on-line to get the discount. Plus, in some states, the lack of sales tax by buying on-line will save you another $10-15 bucks. Then, use the $25 off rebate and the net price falls to $118.

I think my neighbor and myself are going to buying a couple of new batteries this week! The new transmission is supposed to arrive tomorrow, and hope to have my car back in the next 8-10 days and finished with all issues within next 3 weeks (front-end rebuild, alignment, tires, quartz-coating exterior). I'm replacing both batteries now to minimize any battery-related issues over the next 3-5 years.


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Start another thread on here about the quartz coating. I've never heard of it. But interested. 
You have quite the car stable. 

I bought online but picked up locally. Returning old battery for core refund. 
The rebate is for only one battery per address. Get another neighbour as well. 

I am told the Walmart Maxx H5 is also an excellent battery if you want the original size.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The dealers will match online battery prices with a bit of haggling. I think I paid around $140 for my VW AGM battery about a year ago.


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## StevenFT (Jan 26, 2012)

steveskinr said:


> I am told the Walmart Maxx H5 is also an excellent battery if you want the original size.


I have been running the Walmart Maxx H7 battery on the right side (starter battery) for a little over a month now. It is the same group size as the left side battery but is not AGM. I believe I saw Johnson Controls somewhere on the label. I haven't had any issues so far, although it really hasn't been in long enough to give reliable data. The old Varta battery was the original...can't believe it lasted 11 years.

My left side battery is due for replacement soon and I will be using a new VW battery for it.

Steven


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## keveola (May 5, 2015)

steveskinr said:


> Start another thread on here about the quartz coating. I've never heard of it. But interested.
> You have quite the car stable.
> 
> I bought online but picked up locally. Returning old battery for core refund.
> ...


Hi Steve,
Thanks for your comments! What kind of mod did you have to do to the trunk in order to fit the AGM battery (post 55)? Any specialty tools that would make the job any easier?

Because of the money I'm having to sink into the car all at once, close to $20K, I plan on keeping it for a decade or more. Getting the exterior treated with a glass (quartz) or ceramic coating will help preserve it's finish.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The car is actually made to fit the AGM on both sides, but the right side has an extra tray fitted to accommodate the smaller battery. All you have to do is remove the tray. Jason posted a thread with pictures.


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## keveola (May 5, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> The car is actually made to fit the AGM on both sides, but the right side has an extra tray fitted to accommodate the smaller battery. All you have to do is remove the tray. Jason posted a thread with pictures.



Sounds pretty low on the PITA scale! I'll look for Jason's photos tonight, but in the meantime, just to clarify, by "extra tray," do you mean that the AGM-sized tray is already in place, underneath the smaller, extra tray? I don't have to buy the proper tray...it's already there? Thanks!


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

It is not an extra tray; just a bracket to latch onto the smaller battery. Once the bracket is removed, a larger battery can be installed without any additional parts. The cable is long enough. Be careful though. The cable is mounted to the body with a welded stud. The weld can break if the cable is manhandled. Breaking it is a major PITA! 

I just replaced both original batteries with AGMs about 3 months ago. Alternate start procedure worked once prior to replacement. The starter battery was really bad and the other was border line using a Midtronics tester. 

Damon


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yeah, as Damon says, it's immediately obvious once you remove the battery, it's not difficult to do.


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

I removed the two nuts on the bracket so I could slide the battery slightly left. 

That made it easier to pull the positive cable off the battery post. 

Put the two nuts back on without the bracket after the battery is out.


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## keveola (May 5, 2015)

steveskinr said:


> I removed the two nuts on the bracket so I could slide the battery slightly left.
> 
> That made it easier to pull the positive cable off the battery post.
> 
> Put the two nuts back on without the bracket after the battery is out.


Thanks for the advice. Now, a stupid newbie question: I'm upgrading to AGM batteries on both sides. Both batteries should be identical? The same model/group etc? I've had so much bad luck with my car up front, didn't want to add wrong-sized battery to the list.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Has anybody actually seen a difference with an AGM on both sides? The only reason I can see for it is if the engine is somehow harder to crank (like on a V10 diesel) and the starter motor requires more grunt. Other than starting, the RH battery isn't used. The battery controller on the other cars is expecting a conventional battery, and presumably charges accordingly, AGM chargers come with an AGM setting, how much difference it makes I don't know. From what I've observed on my car, the controller has a harder time maintaining the AGM battery than the starter battery.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Jason's car has the bigger battery on both sides. He commented on how my car needed a new battery- and it IS new. The W12 turns over MUCH better in his car. If I knew it was possible to fit the bigger battery when I bought mine, I would have done it.


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

If upgrading the right battery to AGM, it would be identical to the spec of the left battery. Please refer to the first part of this thread. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-procedure&p=76123340&viewfull=1#post76123340

Damon


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## keveola (May 5, 2015)

Thanks Damon, Josh and others. This has been a very informative thread. As a new owner on this site, I've read much about problems caused by low or old batteries. New ones on each side will be one less thing to worry about.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> There was one weirdness leading up to this. My son couldn't start the car. He tried right-left-right with the key. No go. He took out the Powerstation PSX that I keep in the trunk of each car and tried to jump it from under the hood as I had shown him. It still wouldn't start, even with right-left-right. I wonder if it would have worked if he had left it on longer?
> steveskinr


Hi Steve,

I believe that the right-left-right trick works like this:

If the right (starter) battery is dead then the electronics systems fed from the still-working left battery automatically energise the battery paralleling relay to crank the engine using the left (electronics) battery. There's no requirement for the driver to use the right-left-right trick.

This is why the starter battery can slowly go bad, but no-one notices until the extra power drain on the left (electronics) battery starts to give weird gremlins.


If the left (electronics) battery is dead it is therefore unable to power the controllers to detect that the battery is dead and automatically activate the paralleling relay.

In this case, the right-left-right trick forces the battery paralleling relay to activate and boot up the controllers in the 'Emergency Start' list using power from the right (starter) battery.

Once the alternator is supplying power, the car has enough voltage to continue to run normally until stopped. The KESSY (security) controller is supplied by wires from both batteries, so wakes up and detects the ignition key turning as long as at least one battery is good.

Chris


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

I really value your ruminations on this.

In my previous instance, the three year old starter battery went bad, seemingly overnight.
There were no gremlins. Car used everyday. Temperate climate, temperate time of year.
3 year old AGM battery on the left.

In retrospect I should have put a charger on it. Right-left-right didn't work so I had it flat bedded to the dealer. 
I assumed it was something serious. Kessy or the like.

They tested the batteries. Right had gone bad - bad cell. I, and they thought it had gone bad overnight, slightly out of warranty. 

In the recent incident with my first 05, I wonder why it didn't jump start from the posts at the front but did when connected directly to the battery.
Again, nothing weird preceding the incident. 5 year old AGM on left side.


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

I figured out why my son could not jumpstart the Phaeton from the front posts, but he could when he connected directly to the right battery. 

He didn't unscrew the plastic "nut" from the long horizontal post under the hood.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Ahhh... OK... Useful test... Now we have confirmed that the plastic insulators do not conduct electricity! 

Chris


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

LOL!


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Invisiblewave's shortest reply yet.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)




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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Paximus said:


> Ahhh... OK... Useful test... Now we have confirmed that the plastic insulators do not conduct electricity!
> 
> Chris


My V6 was having its auxiliary heater diagnosed a couple of years ago... I was there watching... and after about 40 minutes of him pratting around with the ignition on I suggested he put a battery maintainer on to protect the left battery.... he tried to do this to the jump start posts in the engine bay.... without taking the plastic cover off the negative post.... I did wonder at that point what I was paying the dealer for.... especially as I'd already diagnosed more or less what the problem was....


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Hey guys, sometimes you can save that "dead" agm battery. I've charged mine back from under 2 Volts. It was tested under load at a business that sells new car batteries and it tested good. Most people would tell you to replace the battery. Try this first before wasting $250 on a new battery. I used a Noco Genuis G3500 and it did the trick. They are about $65 and designed for AGM. I'm sure other charges would work as well but this one had some restoration features. Norco even sells a solar charger if you live in an urban area like me and don't have access to an electrical outlet.


https://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/support/faqs



If an OPTIMA battery is deeply discharged (below 10.5 volts), most basic chargers will not supply a charge. Also keep in mind that an OPTIMA battery will not recharge properly if treated as a regular flooded or gel battery. To charge the battery, you can wire a second fully charged automotive battery (12+volts) to the discharged AGM in parallel (+ to + and – to –). Then hook up the charger to the deeply discharged battery, setting the charger at 10 amps. Leave for two hours, monitoring frequently. During this process, if the discharged battery gets very hot or if it is venting (hissing sound from vents), then stop this process immediately. When the discharged battery reaches 10.5 volts or more, remove the standard battery and continue charging the AGM until fully charged.

For normal charging, a relatively low current, such as one or two amps, can work well, but when the battery has been deeply discharged, some sulfation of the battery plates may have occurred. If you charge at 10 amps, the higher current will help to break up this sulfation.

If you have an automatic charger, let it run until the charger indicates charging is complete. If you have a manual charger, you can get a rough estimate of the charging time in hours of a completely discharged battery (11.2 volts) by multiplying the capacity (amp hours or Ah) of the battery by 1.2. If your battery is not completely discharged, the time would be less.

In most cases these steps will recover an AGM battery. It’s OK for the AGM battery to get slightly warm during the charging process. If it’s hot to the touch, it means there’s a short and the process should be discontinued.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

My comfort battery was down to 1.1 V. I have no idea how old the battery is. I have not seen any dates on it. 

I trickle charged it with a Napa automatic charger/maintainer. Reading your post, maybe I should have set the charger at 20 A to break up any sulfation.

All good now since about Wednesday. I'll just have to keep driving it every few days or put it on the charger. 

My starter battery was fully charged each time I checked.

The details of my problems are in this thread. My contributions start with post #5:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7664529-System-fault-key-symbol-on

-Eric


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Optima recommends 10 amps max. If you get it restored you may want to consider using the solar charger if you don't drive frequently. I'm going to get one as my battery is frequently found discharged from many weeks of non-use.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Phaeton2 said:


> Optima recommends 10 amps max. If you get it restored you may want to consider using the solar charger if you don't drive frequently. I'm going to get one as my battery is frequently found discharged from many weeks of non-use.


Thanks,

I rotate mine in and out of storage and the storage unit has no electricity (not even a light bulb) and no daylight. Otherwise, I would use the solar charger.

All 5 of my Phaeton batteries are fully charged now, but I'll have to remember to drive the off-season P at least once a week.

Eric


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## Phat One (Jul 10, 2009)

I changed both batteries today. Stamped on the negative posts: 32/03. Gotta love Varta! (For those not familiar, this equates to approximately August 2003)

Graham


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## Alex Huff (Mar 7, 2012)

*Thank you for the good advice on replacing battery*

Just changed out the larger battery following instructions with pictures on this forum. Thanks to all who contribute.


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> My comfort battery was down to 1.1 V. I have no idea how old the battery is. I have not seen any dates on it.
> 
> I trickle charged it with a Napa automatic charger/maintainer. Reading your post, maybe I should have set the charger at 20 A to break up any sulfation.
> 
> ...


Hi.
I'm new to this and bought a Phaeton 2007 V6 TDI here in Sweden.
My VPS battery is down to 3.65 volts and clearly needs replacing or recharging. My car has digital panic, and now I know why, because you guys are my new heroes and this fabulous forum.
My question: Do you connect a charger directly onto the battery poles with the battery still connected to the car? 

Skickat från min D6603 via Tapatalk


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi,

Welcome to the forum!

The problem with connecting a charger across a flat battery is that the car draws up to 40A when it wakes up when, for example, the driver opens a door. This would overwhelm most owner's chargers.

If the battery is not flat and you are needing a 'keep alive' trickle charge while the car is in storage, then the good battery will easily supply the 40A and the charger should not normally be very stressed.

In other words, if your battery is flat, disconnect it during charging. If you are only keeping a good battery topped up while the car is parked, it's OK to leave the battery connected.

Please always use the correct procedure for disconnecting batteries, in order to reduce the risk of the explosive battery disconnect crash device operating. Jason's opening post in this present thread refers.


Chris


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Paximus said:


> Hi,
> 
> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> ...


Ok, thanks Paximus.
I guess it would be bad to connect my 600 Amp charger to this battery, the AGM's are more sensitive. And the charger give quite bad voltage, I mean more or less unfiltered.
Wiken 😊 

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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

gwiken65 said:


> Hi.
> I'm new to this and bought a Phaeton 2007 V6 TDI here in Sweden.
> My VPS battery is down to 3.65 volts and clearly needs replacing or recharging. My car has digital panic, and now I know why, because you guys are my new heroes and this fabulous forum.
> My question: Do you connect a charger directly onto the battery poles with the battery still connected to the car?
> ...


I have a 10 / 20 A automatic charger with 80 A for starting.


I had no luck trying to charge my left battery with it connected. I had to disconnect it completely. Since the right battery is disconnected at the same time, I charge it also after the left battery is charged.

Be sure to disconnect and reconnect the batteries following the procedures in this thread. Print them out. 

I have some plastic caps that came with batteries that I put on the negative posts (if the batteries are disconnected) unless I am charging. I also put some plastic sheets (a Bondo spreader is one) over the + posts so the cables can't touch the batteries. 

It's also recommended to remove the fuel pump relays. The fuel pumps will start up and pressurize the fuel system as soon as you hook up the left battery if you don't remove the relays. 

I also remove fuse 43 (in the trunk) for the trunk controller. I found out that the trunk motion sensor is controlled by the trunk lid controller and the alarm will probably start blaring as soon as you hook up the left battery. 

I killed one trunk lid controller because I jerked the negative cable off because the alarm was blaring and put it back on when the alarm didn't stop (it has its own battery).

You can also remove fuse 34 under the steering wheel and that will kill the alarm horn. (Yup, fuse 34 in front and 43 in back.)

I set off the alarm twice the other night and decided to silence it until it's all back together. 

My interior motion sensor is normally turned off, but it appears to default to the interior motions sensors being ON when you reconnect the left battery.

-Eric


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Ok, thanks Eric, this is going to save me from lots of headaces. As I said, you guys are my new heroes. 
Wiken 😁

Skickat från min D6603 via Tapatalk


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

gwiken65 said:


> Ok, thanks Eric, this is going to save me from lots of headaces. As I said, you guys are my new heroes.
> Wiken 😁
> 
> Skickat från min D6603 via Tapatalk


You're welcome. Double check those fuse numbers with your manual and the fuse cards. 

They are probably the same, but the North American cars and the Bentley manual only go up to 2006.

The symbols on the fuse cards are cryptic, but the alarm horn looks like a bell. 


-Eric


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> You're welcome. Double check those fuse numbers with your manual and the fuse cards.
> 
> They are probably the same, but the North American cars and the Bentley manual only go up to 2006.
> 
> ...


Ok, my manual is in German only, so I need to get my hands on an english one, I think VW Sweden can help.
Wiken  

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## myecc (Jul 5, 2013)

*Can't seem to get it done -2006 V8 Phaeton- Battery replacement procedures*

After going over the instructions for the battery removal several times, I can't separate the fuse panel holder from the fuse panel carrier. Am I missing something?

GREG


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## Phat One (Jul 10, 2009)

there are 2 plastic sprung clips , one on each side that are very fiddly to operate so be patient


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

They are extremely fiddly and I didn't think I was ever going to get mine out. 

One thing that helps is to pop the TPMS controller loose first (if the harness isn't zip tied in like mine is now).

I crawled in my trunk and used a flashlight (AKA torch in UK) so I could see the forward latch on mine. The latch is about halfway down the forward edge. The rear latch is in the same spot in the rear, but it's much easier to spot. I used a 6" extension to press on it. You can pop one loose and press the fuse box upwards and then pop the other one loose. 

I can pop them both loose by hand from outside the trunk now that I know where they are. 

I believe Michael said you need two people to unlatch it, but I did it by myself. 

Good luck. They are also fiddly to get back in correctly. 

-Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I have only replaced the battery on the 2nd one so I'm not sure if it is unique, but it didn't exactly go as planned,

When I replaced the battery, it didn't want to come out. I had to take out the battery paralleling relay to get enough room to maneuver it.

Even then, I had to tilt it up almost vertical and almost force it past the bracket (the one that holds the controller). I thought of cutting a notch in the bracket to make it easier. I bravely resisted.


That reminds me, your bracket may be broken. 

Mine were both broken. The 1st one had the bracket that mounts to the fuse box broken. The rear latch was broken. I don't mind because the fuse box is still secure. It makes it slightly easier to remove and that bracket is easy to replace if I ever decide to. 

On the 2nd one, the bracket attached to the car (the one that holds the controller) is broken. 

-Eric


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## myecc (Jul 5, 2013)

*Battery removal Procedure*

Thanks for such a detailed post. But, I can not separate the fuse and relay holder from the carrier. What am I doing wrong or missing?


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

myecc said:


> Thanks for such a detailed post. But, I can not separate the fuse and relay holder from the carrier. What am I doing wrong or missing?


I think you need two sets of photos. One is a set taken by Michael Moore (PanEuropean) years ago that is somewhere in the ToC. I can't easily search for it..... I'm on a train with an awful wifi service right now. And you also need my photos in post #35 of this thread. Michael's picture has arrows to the two plastic tabs that need to be pushed back (not much, and they are not stiff). When they are back, you can jiggle the relay carrier upward just enough to then free it. My photos show how the fixing lugs of carrier slot into the fixed part of the frame. Once you can see/visualise these it helps you feel for what movement of the carrier is beneficial.... 

It's really quite easy... once you've done it. I can do it now very quickly and easily; it's a learned trick. However it took me 20 minutes the first time I did it.

Sorry - I know that saying "its quite easy" doesn't really help... only to keep you trying!

Good luck!

M


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

myecc said:


> Thanks for such a detailed post. But, I can not separate the fuse and relay holder from the carrier. What am I doing wrong or missing?


Further to my post of a few mins ago, the other photo I was looking for is the third photo of post #25 of this thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2020343

That piece of plastic is normally captive in the car - but you can now see all the component parts of the puzzle you're trying to solve.

M


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## thechief55 (Nov 15, 2014)

Hello guys, I have a 2006 V6 TDI, do you have any idea if the car uses both batteries when below zero celcius (like V10 TDI)?

Cheers


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

thechief55 said:


> Hello guys, I have a 2006 V6 TDI, do you have any idea if the car uses both batteries when below zero celcius (like V10 TDI)?
> 
> Cheers


Hi.
The car has a cross-connection function that is enabled when the starter (right hand battery) is low. I don't think it's enabled just because it's cold outside.
Wiken 😊

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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Hi,

From SSP:
Parallel switching is temperature-dependent:
- in the case of petrol engines < -10°C and
- in the case of V10 TDI < 0°C

Well, the V6 TDI is left out, must be a rare model . I am sure it does the parallel switching as the others but we have to guess about at which temp.

Lennart


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## thechief55 (Nov 15, 2014)

ravenflies said:


> Hi,
> 
> From SSP:
> Parallel switching is temperature-dependent:
> ...


Exactly my question. In the winter when I crank the engine the cluster display would go out for a second (my logic is that the cars draws power from the VPS battery and hence the display would go out), in the summer it does not go out, so either I have a bad starter battery and the car parallels or it simply parallels when cold like the V10 TDI.


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

thechief55 said:


> Exactly my question. In the winter when I crank the engine the cluster display would go out for a second (my logic is that the cars draws power from the VPS battery and hence the display would go out), in the summer it does not go out, so either I have a bad starter battery and the car parallels or it simply parallels when cold like the V10 TDI.


Yes that makes sense. 
Have you tried to charge the RH battery? 
Wiken 😊 

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## thechief55 (Nov 15, 2014)

gwiken65 said:


> Yes that makes sense.
> Have you tried to charge the RH battery?
> Wiken 😊
> 
> Skickat från min D6603 via Tapatalk


Nope I do not have a proper charger. But I can leave it in a garage (above 0 C) to check if it will go out again.


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

thechief55 said:


> Nope I do not have a proper charger. But I can leave it in a garage (above 0 C) to check if it will go out again.


The SSP only mentions the V10 because when the SSP was written the V6TDI didn't exist. I'm fairly sure that it too parallels at 0°C. But it also parallels if the LH battery is adjudged by the electronics to be in a low start of charge. Which it often is at this time of year. You can hear the relay clunk - although I only hear it on drop off, not pick up. 

I'd recommend getting an AGM charger for the LH battery and topping it up two to three (or more times) per winter... especially if you use the parking heater!

I don't think I've ever had the cluster display go out... if I had to make a diagnosis from this alone I'd be thinking about a bad LH battery...

Good luck anyway.

Regards

M


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

On the car with the identical dual Bosch AGM batteries, I am charging them at the same time with a Genius charger that can charge four batteries at the same time.

Starting at the same time, the right battery showed full charge in less than an hour. At the same time as the right battery showed full charge the left was showing less than half a charge.


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

It's a relatively slow charger that is somehow restorative to the batteries. At 12 hours the left battery was still not quite fully charged. 

The right battery was fully charged after less than an hour.

The left battery is the runt of the litter.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Well, to be fair, it's more like the RH battery is the queen bee. For 99% of its life it doesn't have to do anything, it just receives free food every time the engine is running, and all it has to do for it is turn the starter motor for 2 seconds a couple of times a day.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Yes. ^

The last time I charged batteries, my right battery was already fully charged when I put the charger on it.


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## jeffvh (Feb 13, 2008)

jyoung8607 said:


> *Factory Battery Specifications*
> 
> *Dual-battery Phaetons, except V10 TDI:*
> This is the most common configuration by far. All Phaetons in North America are equipped this way from the factory. The factory starter battery may be labeled "1J0 915 105 AD" or similar. It has been superseded with the part number below. The new battery should have identical specifications.
> ...






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Justinhadden (Sep 15, 2017)

Can anyone let me know if the fuse panel on the AGM side is supposed to have a cover on it (other than the large panel cover)? I just went to hook up a charger to my AGM batter (new in August) and there is no cover on fuses, and one of the wire clips was loose. They (Dealer) also didn't put a plug in the right side vent port... It looks like they may have broken the cover? Sloppy stuff like this makes me mad.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Mine doesn't have a cover, and never has had. I can't absolutely guarantee that it didn't originally have one though, since the dealer removed it years ago and broke the bracket it hangs on....


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## Justinhadden (Sep 15, 2017)

I feel your pain. I had the battery replaced (along with $4K+ in other work) and just now got around to taking a look at it... Should have inspected it at the Dealer. I went in today to get a vent cap & let my guy know they broke both wire bundle holders... "So we need to order new clips"? I told him it was the whole fuse panel box (they're attached) and I got a "sorry about that". Just makes me nervous about the timing belt and other things. I ran the VCDS on it today and the ignition timing was <1 degree so I'm assuming that's right? At least it's all covered under the 1yr warranty.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Justinhadden said:


> I feel your pain. I had the battery replaced (along with $4K+ in other work) and just now got around to taking a look at it... Should have inspected it at the Dealer. I went in today to get a vent cap & let my guy know they broke both wire bundle holders... "So we need to order new clips"? I told him it was the whole fuse panel box (they're attached) and I got a "sorry about that". Just makes me nervous about the timing belt and other things. I ran the VCDS on it today and the ignition timing was <1 degree so I'm assuming that's right? At least it's all covered under the 1yr warranty.


If the fuse box had a separate cover at any point, it would be shown in this thread. 

This is the part number for the wire bundle holders. They slip into the top of the fuse box:

3D0971739A

Mine were broken also.


-Eric


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## Justinhadden (Sep 15, 2017)

Thanks Eric!


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## hanzy88 (Jan 2, 2018)

*Basic Lead battery vs. AGM*

Did anyone notice any longevity improvements with AGM batteries over the basic lead battery? I got a car with 2 lead-acid batteries and the VPS battery died, now I'm considering to replace it with similar 100Ah lead acid battery and not like this threat recommends the AGM batteries, which are twice as expensive, will they also last twice as long? I have a V10TDI, and since it's a 2004 model I doubt any battery would last long in this car due to the ghostly battery drain.
So my question, is it worth paying more for AGM battery? I'm also considering a solar battery which can withstand deep discharge more easily. Any suggestions?
Thanks


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

The main advantage of AGM batteries is the cold cranking amperage. If any engine is going to need that, it's the V10 so you should probably replace both with AGM batteries (and certainly the starter battery on the right).

Harry


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I agree with Harry, I would always fit two AGM batteries to a V10. The car's internal charging is set up for them, the deeper allowed discharge helps cope with those gremlins after parking for a few weeks and the engine cranking speed is way faster than any of my other cars.

I used Varta G14s on my V10 at first, which are a close match to the VW OEM part seemingly from the same factory (Johnson's), and they worked well for exactly 5 years. They currently cost about £190 each delivered.

Last time, I fitted a pair of thoroughly excellent Bosch S6 Silver 019AGM (S6013/6002) but since the distributor has now closed down I suspect the £132 each was a desperate cash raising move by the trader at the time.

The more common Bosch Silver S5 A13 AGM are around £200 each delivered.

However, I can't see any reason why the Hankook equivalent of the Varta at £148 each shouldn't be just as good, they still have the same 5-year warranty. The part number is SA59520 and one supplier is batterymegauk (I assume you are in the UK, or at least within EU delivery range).

Chris


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## hanzy88 (Jan 2, 2018)

I'm in central EU. It seems quite an investment going for 2 new AGMs instead of just one lead-acid battery (500€ vs. 100€). And I'm afraid the AGM won't last much longer than the lead-acid battery. For the money of one AGM I get 2 and one half of lead-acids, meaning I can replace them every 2 years and it's still cheaper. If anything I would maybe go for the consensus and buy one AGM for the VPS side (left) and just use the one that's already installed as long as it lasts. Nobody will give me more than 2 year warranty on whatever I decide to buy.
Mechanics recommended the cheapest option as it won't last long either way. (not servicing the car at VW)


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

hanzy88 said:


> I'm in central EU. It seems quite an investment going for 2 new AGMs instead of just one lead-acid battery (500€ vs. 100€). And I'm afraid the AGM won't last much longer than the lead-acid battery. For the money of one AGM I get 2 and one half of lead-acids, meaning I can replace them every 2 years and it's still cheaper. If anything I would maybe go for the consensus and buy one AGM for the VPS side (left) and just use the one that's already installed as long as it lasts. Nobody will give me more than 2 year warranty on whatever I decide to buy.
> Mechanics recommended the cheapest option as it won't last long either way. (not servicing the car at VW)


I think the experience of others reported here over the years is that a non-AGM LH battery is a recipe for trouble - I suspect it won't charge as well, and will suffer from persistent low volts causing all sorts of electrical trouble. You can probably get away with an AGM on the LH side and standard wet cell on the RHS - just like a V6. If the RH battery is weak the car will parallel the two anyway and the two should be fine. My one niggle is again the non-standard arrangement will not line up with how the battery charge control is set up and you'll again end up with an under charged LH battery.

I sympathize with the cost pressure - but this is one of the areas where a car like this is always going to be difficult when it comes to economies.

Good luck

M


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That's because the mechanics don't understand the Phaeton. If your starter battery is weak, or having a hard time turning the engine over (V10), the car automatically parallels the batteries so that the VPS battery helps with cranking. Over time, this degrades the VPS battery and also causes gremlins when starting because some systems don't initialize correctly. Installing an AGM battery for starting will likely lengthen the life of the VPS battery.

The price disparity is evidently much greater where you are than where I am, I can now buy the genuine VW AGM battery from a dealer for about $150, which isn't much more than the lead acid battery costs.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> I sympathize with the cost pressure - but this is one of the areas where a car like this is always going to be difficult when it comes to economies.
> 
> Good luck


My V10 needs three new door handles. They are £550 each plus fitting, say £2k. In comparison, one or two AGM batteries are just 'business as usual'! 

Chris


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## hanzy88 (Jan 2, 2018)

invisiblewave said:


> That's because the mechanics don't understand the Phaeton. If your starter battery is weak, or having a hard time turning the engine over (V10), the car automatically parallels the batteries so that the VPS battery helps with cranking. Over time, this degrades the VPS battery and also causes gremlins when starting because some systems don't initialize correctly. Installing an AGM battery for starting will likely lengthen the life of the VPS battery.
> 
> The price disparity is evidently much greater where you are than where I am, I can now buy the genuine VW AGM battery from a dealer for about $150, which isn't much more than the lead acid battery costs.




Just got a quote for two Intact AGM batteries (90Ah each) for 400€ for cash if I return two used ones…
I understand what you're talking about, but I'm just concerned, that 14 year old electronics in the car will destroy any battery within a year or two, is it deep cycle or not. This Phaeton is my daily driver, but battery still goes empty fast, luckily it has 2. True, I was driving it with a regular wet batteries since I bought it.

Thanks for all the help!


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## hanzy88 (Jan 2, 2018)

Paximus said:


> My V10 needs three new door handles. They are £550 each plus fitting, say £2k. In comparison, one or two AGM batteries are just 'business as usual'!
> 
> Chris


Get used ones, replace them yourself, it would cost you a lot less than one new door handle!
Therese a big market for used but functional parts for Phaetons on German eBay!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

hanzy88 said:


> Just got a quote for two Intact AGM batteries (90Ah each) for 400€ for cash if I return two used ones…
> I understand what you're talking about, but I'm just concerned, that 14 year old electronics in the car will destroy any battery within a year or two, is it deep cycle or not. This Phaeton is my daily driver, but battery still goes empty fast, luckily it has 2. True, I was driving it with a regular wet batteries since I bought it.
> 
> Thanks for all the help!


Not sure what the age of the electronics has to do with anything, you should easily get 4 years out of the batteries, more likely at least 6, and some people have gone much longer. If you're not driving it regularly, you should charge the AGM battery once a month or so.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

hanzy88 said:


> Get used ones, replace them yourself, it would cost you a lot less than one new door handle!
> Therese a big market for used but functional parts for Phaetons on German eBay!


I agree BUT have them changed immediately so you have a chance to complain if they don’t work. Not unusual, ask me how I know... It is not easily measured to check it before the door panel work, some electronics between the switch and the connector so you can not get a direct measurement of the switch. I bought a bunch and the one I was about to change did not work. But you can test all types, front or rear, left or right in one position as the connectors and pinout are the same. In that way I saved one door panel removal to no use.

Lennart


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

hanzy88 said:


> Just got a quote for two Intact AGM batteries (90Ah each) for 400€ for cash if I return two used ones…
> I understand what you're talking about, but I'm just concerned, that 14 year old electronics in the car will destroy any battery within a year or two, is it deep cycle or not. This Phaeton is my daily driver, but battery still goes empty fast, luckily it has 2. True, I was driving it with a regular wet batteries since I bought it.
> 
> Thanks for all the help!


I have two 2004 Phaeton W12s. 

One has the same batteries it had when I bought it 4 years ago next month. It's in storage and sometimes it says "Please Start Engine" and sometimes not. I can't see any date codes on the battery posts. They are both VW batteries. 

On the other Phaeton, I replaced the left battery in 2015 with a new VW AGM battery from the dealer. The price was actually less than some store brand AGM batteries.

It's the Phaeton I drive the most. Sometimes it says "Please Start Engine" also. Neither are daily drivers and I _might_ drive the second one a few times a week. 

I haven't had to do the emergency start procedure on either Phaeton for a few years now. 

Since the right batteries are lead acid, they might need distilled water added because it's hot in the summer (thanks, Captain Obvious). 

Both Phaetons are good after driving and I am going to top up the water on my starter battery as soon as I submit this reply.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Since the right batteries are lead acid, they might need distilled water added because it's hot in the summer (thanks, Captain Obvious).
> 
> Both Phaetons are good after driving and I am going to top up the water on my starter battery as soon as I submit this reply.


Well, the right battery on my 2nd Phaeton is sealed.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Paximus said:


> My V10 needs three new door handles. They are £550 each plus fitting, say £2k. In comparison, one or two AGM batteries are just 'business as usual'!
> 
> Chris


Chris, what are the symptoms to determine if you need new door handles? 

None of the rear handles on either of my Phaetons open the doors unless I unlock all doors with the fob or the inside unlock buttons. I think that's a configuration issue that I never bothered to look into because I am usually the only one in the car.

My front doors will open on both Phaetons if I have the fob on my person but opening the trunk lid or unlocking the doors remotely is so-so on either car. Sometimes I point at the door handles and sometimes I point at the rear of the car.

I can't pull out my fob and just press it to find my Phaeton in a crowded parking lot. (Not that I park anywhere near other cars). 

-Eric


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## drautzburg (Jan 30, 2019)

*Plus cable woes*

There is currently a discussion going on at the German forum "motor-talk", where two members complain that they cannot get the plus cable of the VPS battery out of the way (one of them is me).

Apparently not all Phaeton models are the same in this respect. The ones complaining have an old GP0 3.2 V6. Battery replacement seems to be easier with newer models. On these old models, you additionally have to remove the mount which holds the fuse box. This is still easy, but then you are faced with a ridiculously stiff plus cable, that neither of us was able to get out of the way.

Does anybody know this problem and how to resolve it?


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## sean_m (Oct 6, 2010)

drautzburg said:


> There is currently a discussion going on at the German forum "motor-talk", where two members complain that they cannot get the plus cable of the VPS battery out of the way (one of them is me).
> 
> Apparently not all Phaeton models are the same in this respect. The ones complaining have an old GP0 3.2 V6. Battery replacement seems to be easier with newer models. On these old models, you additionally have to remove the mount which holds the fuse box. This is still easy, but then you are faced with a ridiculously stiff plus cable, that neither of us was able to get out of the way.
> 
> Does anybody know this problem and how to resolve it?


Unbolt the paralleling relay.


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## drautzburg (Jan 30, 2019)

That's it. Thanks


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

drautzburg said:


> There is currently a discussion going on at the German forum "motor-talk", where two members complain that they cannot get the plus cable of the VPS battery out of the way (one of them is me).
> 
> Apparently not all Phaeton models are the same in this respect. The ones complaining have an old GP0 3.2 V6. Battery replacement seems to be easier with newer models. On these old models, you additionally have to remove the mount which holds the fuse box. This is still easy, but then you are faced with a ridiculously stiff plus cable, that neither of us was able to get out of the way.
> 
> Does anybody know this problem and how to resolve it?



When I changed the left battery in 8486, I had to completely remove the paralleling relay. I couldn't get it completely out of the way otherwise. 

I marked everything with some electrical labels I bought at Lowe's in the electrical department that electricians use to mark wires.

If you are not in the U.S. , any electrical supply store should have similar products.


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## kinlow (Jul 7, 2009)

*Changed my battery today*

The instructions posted on the thread worked like a charm. Its a very tight space but a good hand and agility are key. 

Good to have an extra set of hands too!


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## mellowmutt (Apr 26, 2016)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Well, the right battery on my 2nd Phaeton is sealed.


I should hope so! Get that old-school "flooded" battery out of your other Phaeton ASAP... Spec on Phaetons, if equipped with a starter battery, is SLA (Sealed Lead Acid, aka "maintenance-free") or AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat, also "maintenance-free"). These types are "recombinant" meaning most of the hydrogen gas is recycled within the battery instead of off-gassing. They have little holes to connect little tubes to vent that Hydrogen gas to the outside (make sure your Phaeton has these little tubes on each battery, or grab some tubing from NAPA and DIY).

I don't care if you're doing a battery relocate on a ricer or own a Phaeton, if you have a battery in your trunk it MUST NOT be flooded. Under certain circumstances a flooded battery will "boil" and give off Hydrogen into your trunk space, for recirculation into the rest of the passenger compartment -- hopefully you're not a smoker.  A flooded-lead-acid will also leak acid into your wheel well, under these circumstances. Flooded batteries are great under the hood/bonnet where these problems are no big thing.

Most of the Phaetons I've shopped for have inexplicably had flooded starter batteries, this saves money but is a very dangerous practice, and goes against spec for some pretty obvious reasons. Luckily, the BMS for the starter battery is very good and not likely to boil a flooded-lead-acid, but why take the chance? Get that bomb out of your trunk/boot.


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## mellowmutt (Apr 26, 2016)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> On the other Phaeton, I replaced the left battery in 2015 with a new VW AGM battery from the dealer. The price was actually less than some store brand AGM batteries.


ALL lead-acid batteries compatible with our Phaetons are manufactured by Johnson Controls, so feel free to bargain-shop without worrying about brand.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Well, the right battery on my 2nd Phaeton is sealed.


I posted this almost 9 months ago as a response to my own post saying I was going out to top off the Starter battery on 8486. 

The Starter Battery in 8486 is a Continental lead acid battery that's sealed. 

7579 was and is in storage and I never followed up with this but all of my Phaeton batteries are sealed. 

7579 has VW batteries for each side.


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## sean_m (Oct 6, 2010)

The OEM start battery is a sealed maintenance-free battery but it is not a "sealed lead acid" or "gel cell" battery. It's still a flooded type battery and both it and the AGM vehicle power supply battery are vented to the outside of the car through a vent tube.


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## mellowmutt (Apr 26, 2016)

Sorry for editing my prior post due to brain fart. Battery terminology gets confusing!



sean_m said:


> The OEM start battery is a sealed maintenance-free battery but it is not a "sealed lead acid" or "gel cell" battery. It's still a flooded type battery and both it and the AGM vehicle power supply battery are vented to the outside of the car through a vent tube.


Technically, a sealed maintenance-free battery *is* a SLA type (gel and AGM are other types of SLA battery). But, it is not "flooded", otherwise you'd be able to add water to it, and the little vent tube would be irrelevant to the amount of gas capable of being produced.



> The first sealed, or maintenance-free, lead acid emerged in the mid-1970s. Engineers argued that the term "sealed lead acid" was a misnomer because no lead acid battery can be totally sealed. To control venting during stressful charge and rapid discharge, valves have been added that release gases if pressure builds up. *Rather than submerging the plates in a liquid, the electrolyte is impregnated into a moistened separator*, a design that resembles nickel- and lithium-based systems. This enables operating the battery in any physical orientation without leakage.
> 
> The sealed battery contains less electrolyte than the flooded type, hence the term "acid-starved." Perhaps the most significant advantage of sealed lead acid is the ability to combine oxygen and hydrogen to create water and prevent dry out during cycling. The recombination occurs at a moderate pressure of 0.14 bar (2psi). The valve serves as a safety vent if the gas buildup rises. Repeated venting should be avoided as this will lead to an eventual dry-out.


https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/lead_based_batteries

Anyway, it never ceases to amaze me when I look at Phaetons or Unimogs and find flooded-lead-acid batteries where they don't belong. You don't want to leave a trail of sulfuric acid bouncing up and down steep off-road grades in a Unimog, any more than you want a source of H gas in the passenger compartment of a Phaeton.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I looked up Continental batteries yesterday to see what exactly I had. 

The starter battery in 8486 is a Continental Supreme 49/93-CS.

It appears that Continental no longer makes it but it's a lead acid battery that's sealed and is maintenance free. 

Continental has a Battery 101 section. 

http://www.continentalbattery.com/battery_101.html

If you click on the Battery Types tab, it says this in the second paragraph:

"Sealed Maintenance Free Battery
Sealed batteries are commonly known as maintenance free batteries. They are made with vents that (usually) cannot be removed. A standard auto or marine maintenance free battery is sealed, but not fully leak proof. Sealed batteries are not totally sealed since all batteries must allow gas to vent during charging. There are sealed lead acid (SLA) batteries that are non-spillable."


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## O' Danny boy (Feb 10, 2013)

*Re PDF of Battery replacement thread*

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5601569-Battery-replacement-procedure&.

10th Feb 2020 - Urgent request. 

Hi Mike,

Do you possibly still have the PDF of the above battery change procedure forum - including the images that were originall posted with this thread - but can no longer be seen on this thread,

My 2008 V6 Pheaton has not had much use over th epast 4 years - parked on the drive - due to company cars,

AGM ( left side battery ) battery would drain due to minimal or no use and i would re-charge it - but it wont take any more charges now,

bought a new battery last week & got local ( none VW ) garage to fit it as i was not confident removing the electrics / relay board above the battery.

It would appear that they have done something wrong - as my car will not start now adn come up with 3 pages of fault codes which will most likely cost more than the car to fix. ?

Not sure where i stand with this garage now or if they would have insurance to cover any mistakes made.

Would appreciate you help with this.

Thanks:

Dan.

[email protected].


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Dan,

Michael's pictures are all there if you open this thread in Internet Explorer. 

You should be able to print as a .pdf if you want your own copy, or just print out the pages. That's what I did. 

-Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

O' Danny boy said:


> ...
> 
> bought a new battery last week & got local ( none VW ) garage to fit it as i was not confident removing the electrics / relay board above the battery.
> 
> ...


Dan, did you try the emergency start procedure?

Pages of faults are normal with a dead battery and recharge or replacement. Mostly voltage faults. Clear them all until no intermittent faults appear. Multiple times if you have to.

-Eric

One more thing: Thank you so much for adding to this main battery thread instead of starting yet another Battery thread.


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Dan,
> 
> Michael's pictures are all there if you open this thread in Internet Explorer.
> 
> ...


I think Mike is me rather than Michael Moore. I've sent Dan the PDF I made years ago -but I do think all the info and pictures are still largely in the thread.

M


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

n968412L said:


> I think Mike is me rather than Michael Moore. I've sent Dan the PDF I made years ago -but I do think all the info and pictures are still largely in the thread.
> 
> M


Ah, I see you mentioned it in post #3. I don't know how I missed that.

-Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Michael is no longer active but drops by occasionally.
> 
> -Eric


I plumb forgot that the last time Michael posted here, it was to say he re-hosted all of his pictures.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Alas, re-hosting pictures falls down to me these days (sigh...) It takes some time.

I just PM'd Jason, who owns many of these photos, to ask if his server can be switched to https so that the photos show correctly in Chrome browser (and others).

Otherwise, with his permission, I'll re-host them.

Meanwhile, as Eric suggested, Internet Explorer is a bit more helpful than Chrome in as much it will show the non-https photos.

In Chrome, you can also right-click and copy the url in each icon placeholder where a photo should appear, and paste the url in the address bar in a new tab. Chrome doesn't mind showing these photos individually, just not embedded in a web page.

Chris


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Breakage is definitely due to the HTTP to HTTPS forced change. My little virtual host just isn't set up to serve TLS content. It's not a matter of cost, just haven't gotten around to it and won't be able to in the near term future. Chris is welcome to rehost those images and any others of mine that might be of benefit to the Phaeton community.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

What are you serving it from Jason? I've switched over to LetsEncrypt, their certbot tool is very easy to use and fully automatic for some server setups (Apache, etc).


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## vwfetus (Aug 31, 2018)

Right Starting 000 915 105 DE SLA 12V 61Ah 330A DIN/540A SAE

why is battery so weak only 540 CCA?


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

vwfetus said:


> Right Starting 000 915 105 DE SLA 12V 61Ah 330A DIN/540A SAE
> 
> why is battery so weak only 540 CCA?


It's only used for starting.
Some replace this with a large AGM.
Wiken

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

vwfetus said:


> Right Starting 000 915 105 DE SLA 12V 61Ah 330A DIN/540A SAE
> 
> why is battery so weak only 540 CCA?


Thank you for not starting a new battery thread. 

The procedure to install a larger starter battery is on the first page of this thread, but it's more important to get the basics down before modifying anything.

A larger starter battery isn't going to make up for a dead left battery. 

I replaced the left batteries on both of my Phaetons last year.

One has a larger (but not AGM) starter battery. 

The other has a normal (looks tiny) starter battery. 

Both of them started today without any drama. No difference.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

A bigger starter battery might not make up for a weak VPS battery, but it might be less likely to degrade the VPS battery over time. My car parallels the batteries on virtually every start in the winter.


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## ElSmoko (Feb 10, 2019)

invisiblewave said:


> My car parallels the batteries on virtually every start in the winter.


How do you know it's doing that? Mine always starts, first time every time, but after a few seconds I always notice a very distinct metallic "thunk" from the back. Presumably that is a paralleling relay clicking on or off once the alternator is up to voltage, but I'm not sure how to check what it's actually doing. I've fairly recently replaced both my batteries with 100Ah wet cells (because I'm cheap), so I'd hope I'm not on the verge of a dead left battery - its voltage is certainly fine when I've checked it, and charging at normal voltage when running.


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## richmondvatdi (May 17, 2003)

*Brand New AGM Battery-Now Zero Response from Starter*

My starter battery finally died while sitting idle for a couple months, so I decided to upgrade to the larger AGM battery. The starter battery was a VW SLA battery and was 8 years old so not bad. I just finished installing the new one and checking voltage (12.7 V) and then tried to star the car. Nothing. No response whatsoever. I never disconnected the Left battery during this change (which shouldn't impact the starter circuit anyway). 

I do not want to try the emergency start procedure right away because:
1. The starter battery is brand new so it shouldn't need help
1. My battery maintainer for the Left battery also died during the recent break and I am expecting a new one tomorrow. In the meantime, the Left battery is only at 12.0V so there's no use further depleting its charge.

What could be causing the starter not to run?


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Paul,

First, I'd charge the left battery. I have never had a dead starter battery but have had to do the emergency start plenty of times. 

The last few times I re-connected batteries, I had to do the emergency start even though both batteries were fully charged. 

I have started my Phaeton with only the left battery connected. It was a long time ago and I did it just to see if I could. I don't remember if I had to do the emergency start that time. 

-Eric


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Paul,

I agree with Eric. Once the new battery is charged up, have no fear of turning the ignition key to do the 'emergency start', it's a fully integrated feature of the battery controller.

All it effectively does is turn on a relay to allow both batteries to contribute the starter circuit current for a short time, although it may also reset the memory that one or both batteries were previously dead.

Good luck.

Chris


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That's not what the emergency start procedure does. If the starter battery is weak, the system automatically parallels the batteries to crank the engine. The emergency start procedure is to deal with a bad VPS battery to power the electronics during starting, the car won't start without power to the Kessy, etc.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

You are right, of course. I didn't put it very well. Getting the electronics up reliably is the first intention, especially here, where the ignition cranking switch is being ignored by the KESSY.

Surely though, in this case, paralleling the batteries will also allow both to supply cranking current. I thought that the paralleling relay operates in both states. 

Chris


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## richmondvatdi (May 17, 2003)

Hopefully the new maintenance charger comes in today. I bought this Norco Genius 2 https://amzn.to/32Thyo3 which looks good and has some excellent reviews. Once both batteries are fully charged, I'll give it another try.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

richmondvatdi said:


> Hopefully the new maintenance charger comes in today. I bought this Norco Genius 2 https://amzn.to/32Thyo3 which looks good and has some excellent reviews. Once both batteries are fully charged, I'll give it another try.


Your original problem points to a VPS battery issue, the emergency start procedure won't hurt it, quite the opposite.


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## richmondvatdi (May 17, 2003)

*Going from Bad to Worse...:-(*

I charged the new battery as well as the existing LH battery, and things did not go well. I am going to start a new thread because I don't think this is now a battery-related problem and I don't want to hijack this thread. At some point, for those of you that want to see how this story ends, I will post a link to the new thread here.


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## llehman1234 (Sep 1, 2018)

Thank you for this thread!


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