# The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base



## Silver Reflexion (May 1, 2005)

_Quote, originally posted by *VW Spyder* »_
I'm convinced that anyone who doesn't like DSG doesn't understand how it works or lets their ego get in the way









A work in progress. Please feel free to add or detract what you feel to be correct/incorrect. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote »_

* VW/Audi/Bugatti/Porsche/Seat/Skoda:*
*DSG: Direct Shift Gearbox *
*Workings of the DSG:*
The gears are intended to be used in "direct sequence" and cannot be as easily skipped like a manual. 
Though it may not be good for a manual to skip from say 2 to 4, it can be done without delay , while the DSG has the next neighboring gears pre-selected, and thus takes substantially more time to execute a shift of more than one gear. This may be done intentionally by commanding two shifts in short frequence, or by hitting the downshift button of the gas pedal .
*DSG history: *Porsche invented DSG more than 20 years ago, hence the Audi/VW connection as of late.
Porsche stopped using DSG on their cars because of the significant power that their current models put out. (I am not sure they ever used it in production cars, or in large numbers) 
Rumor has it that the single clutch model used on the Audi R8 can make its way BACK to the Porsches. A beefed up 2 clutch version to possibly follow.
*• Volkswagen:*
Models with DSG:
2004+ TDI New Beetle
*Passat
2006 & 2007 GTI & GLI & Jetta 2.0TFSI 
2006 **Jetta TDI 
2007 EOS
2008 R32 
2008 Tiguan CR TDI and 2.0 TFSI (?) 
***Turan
*Passat: no current us-spec b6 passat has DSG.
*Euro spec B6 Passat does have the dsg coupled with the following engines:
2.0 140PS TDI
2.0 TDI 170PS
3.2 V6 250PS
**Euro-spec Jettas have DSG coupled with the following engines:
SE 1.4 TSI 140PS 6spd DSG
1.9 TDI 105PS
2.0 TDI 140PS
***Euro-spec Touran also has DSG:
1.4 TSI 140PS
2.0 TDI 140PS
2.0 TDI 170PS DSG
*• Skoda:* 
Models with DSG:
Octavia:
1.9 TDI PD DSG 105bhp 
2.0 TDI PD DSG 140bhp
• *Seat:* 
Models with DSG:
Leon/Altea:
2.0t fsi
2.0 tdi 140 ps
*• Audi:*
Models with DSG (S-tronic):
2006 & 2007 A3 
2006 MkI TT 
2007 MkII TT 
Audi also offers a DSG version of DSG called S-tronic . S-tronic is an Audi marketing term that also applies to the VW 2-clutch DSG. 
R-tronic: single clutch in the Audi R8, due to the longitudal engine mount).

*• Bugatti :*
Models with DSG:
Veyron 16.4 (7 speed DSG)

*• Porsche:*
Models with DSG:
TBA: Click here> http://www.autoweek.com/apps/p...LOG01
With the recent acquisition of the VW stock by Porsche to keep VW in the family, comes the DSG technology rights.
*• BMW:*
Rumored 2008 M3 will be offered with SMG (dual clutch version) 
SMG: Sequential Manual Gearbox 
*• Mitsubishi:*
Models with DSG(or comparable)
Rumor- 2008? Evo X
*• Nissan:*
Models with DSG(or comparable)
Rumor- 2008? Skyline GTR
**On a side note: *
Volkswagen doesn't actually make the DSG. “DSG” is a Volkswagen trademark for the technology.
“DSG” is made by a US company called BorgWarner. BorgWarner calls their product "DualTronic". BorgWarner purchased a well-known German transmission company. Also, VW has several other suppliers, depending on torque rating etc. For example, they have a low-torque dry-clutch version of the system that just came out. 
Volkswagen helped fund development of “DualTronic” in exchange for an exclusive 5 year deal with BorgWarner on the technology



_Quote »_
*A deeper look at DSG:*
Volkswagen and Audi's Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG)
by Aaron Gold,
Your Guide to Cars.
*What it is and how it works*
The Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG), also known as the double-clutch gearbox, is a transmission developed by Audi and Volkswagen. What makes it special is that it can change gears faster than any other geared transmission. The DSG can be shifted either manually or automatically. It delivers more power and better control than a traditional automatic transmission and faster performance than a manual transmission.
The DSG is a development of the sequential manual transmission (SMT), which is essentially a fully-automated manual transmission with a computer-controlled clutch. Before we delve into the workings of the DSG, let's start with an explanation of the SMT.

*SMT: The control of a manual with the ease of an automatic*
Though it has appeared on a few passenger cars, the SMT is widely used in certain forms of racing and is featured on Ferrari's Enzo supercar.
Cars with SMTs have no clutch pedal; the clutch is automatically engaged. 
Most SMTs can be shifted automatically or manually, the latter using a shift lever or paddles on the steering wheel. The advantage to an SMT is that it uses a solid coupling, as opposed to a fluid coupling (torque converter) as used in a traditional automatic (including Tiptronic- or manumatic-style transmissions). As with a manual transmission, the SMT provides a direct connection between engine and transmission, allowing 100 of the engine's power to be transmitted to the wheels. The SMT provides more immediate response and ensures that the engine RPMs do not drop when the driver lifts off the accelerator (as happens with an automatic), giving her more precise control over power output.
SMTs can also perform matched-rev (or double-clutch) downshifts: When the driver downshifts, the SMT disengages the clutch, shifts to neutral, and re-engages the clutch. The SMT calculates what the engine RPMs will be in the next-lowest gear based on the current road speed, and revs the engine (and, since the clutch is engaged, the transmission) to that speed. It then disengages the clutch, shifts into the lower gear, and re-engages the clutch. The result is a smooth change with no jerk and no sudden deceleration.
SMTs have one major disadvantage, same as a manual: Power must be interrupted while the transmission changes gears.

*DSG: An SMT without the lag*
The DSG all but eliminates the lag inherent in SMTs. The DSG is essentially two 3-speed gearboxes with a pair of clutches. When the driver starts out, transmission #1 is in first gear and transmission #2 is in second. The clutch engages and the car starts out in first. When it's time to change gears, the DSG uses the clutches to swap transmissions. The #1 transmission immediately shifts to third gear. At the next change the DSG swaps transmissions again, and #2 shifts to fourth. The DSG's computerized controller calculates the next likely gearchange and shifts the "idle" transmission into that gear. The advantage is the speed of gearchanges: The DSG takes about 8 milliseconds to upshift. Compare that to the SMT in the Ferrari Enzo, which takes 150 ms to upshift. It's also significantly faster than a human: According to Audi, the A3 runs 0-60 in 6.9 seconds with a 6-speed manual and 6.7 seconds with the 6-speed DSG. Like the SMT, the DSG performs double-clutch downshifts and can skip gears (i.e. downshifting from 6th directly to 4th, 3rd, etc).
*Driving with the DSG*
The DSG uses a traditional P-R-N-D-S shift pattern. It can shift automatically in either normal (D) or Sport (S) modes. In Normal mode, the DSG shifts to the higher gears early in order to minimize engine noise and maximize fuel economy. In Sport mode the transmission holds the lower gears longer in order to keep the engine in its powerband. This is especially useful for turbocharged cars like Audi A3, Volkswagen GTI and VW Jetta GLI, since the turbocharger is only active at higher RPMs. Sport mode also provides more aggressive downshifts with slight accelerator pedal pressure.
Manual mode is engaged by either sliding the shift lever to the side or pulling one of the paddles on the steering wheel. Once in manual mode, shifts are made by moving the shifter fore and aft or using the paddles (which are marked " " and "-"). If manual mode was engaged with the paddles, pulling and holding the upshift paddle returns the transmission to automatic mode, allowing the driver to quickly downshift to a lower gear for passing and then hand control back over to the transmission.
*DSG Theoretic Model:*








*DSG Diagram*








*DSG Transmission Cutaway*








*DSG Clutch Cutaway*











_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 2:10 PM 6-15-2007_

_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 2:11 PM 6-15-2007_

_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 4:16 PM 6-15-2007_

_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 4:13 PM 6-18-2007_

_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 4:13 PM 6-18-2007_

_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 4:17 PM 6-18-2007_

_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 10:14 PM 6-18-2007_

_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 1:08 PM 6-27-2007_

_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 10:30 AM 6-29-2007_

_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 10:32 AM 6-29-2007_

_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 10:33 AM 6-29-2007_

_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 10:34 AM 6-29-2007_


_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 10:56 AM 6-29-2007_


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## vwpiloto (Nov 27, 2006)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (Silver Reflexion)*

The R-tronic in the R8 is not a DSG. It's simply an automated manual, where the clutch is essentially comupter controlled. The DSG is unique in that it has virtually uniterupped power transmission due to its unique dual clutch system. The R-tronic is similar to the F1 transmission used Ferraris and is very closely related to the E-Gear used by Lamborghini (the R8 is related to the Gallardo).


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## Silver Reflexion (May 1, 2005)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (vwpiloto)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpiloto* »_The R-tronic in the R8 is not a DSG. It's simply an automated manual, where the clutch is essentially comupter controlled. The DSG is unique in that it has virtually uniterupped power transmission due to its unique dual clutch system. The R-tronic is similar to the F1 transmission used Ferraris and is very closely related to the E-Gear used by Lamborghini (the R8 is related to the Gallardo). 

thanks for the info! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## justinperkins (May 12, 2006)

2007 R32? The only one we're getting is 2008 MY. Good info though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Silver Reflexion (May 1, 2005)

*Re: (justinperkins)*


_Quote, originally posted by *justinperkins* »_2007 R32? The only one we're getting is 2008 MY. Good info though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

you're right.. corrected.


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## SickWrathTerror (May 15, 2007)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (Silver Reflexion)*

Awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Sticky thread, perhaps?


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## GTIR6 (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (justinperkins)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## hi_centered (Aug 20, 2005)

*Re: (GTIR6)*

Dsg was available in TDI new beetles 04+


_Modified by Pteezy at 6:14 PM 6-15-2007_


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## BucBrew (Feb 28, 2007)

New DSG info here. A 7 speed, and it takes 75% less fluid (dry clutch)
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/2818


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## ajz9415 (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: (BucBrew)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Silver Reflexion (May 1, 2005)

*Re: (ajz9415)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tilnaneer (Aug 9, 2006)

The Bugatti Veyron 16.4 also uses a DSG transmission (7 speed)


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## Sump (Jul 14, 2006)

*Re: (tilnaneer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tilnaneer* »_The Bugatti Veyron 16.4 also uses a DSG transmission (7 speed)

true. Stickums? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## american gigolo (Dec 16, 2001)

*Re: (sump22)*

what about the 06 passat V6?


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## Silver Reflexion (May 1, 2005)

*Re: (american gigolo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tilnaneer* »_The Bugatti Veyron 16.4 also uses a DSG transmission (7 speed)


_Quote, originally posted by *american gigolo* »_what about the 06 passat V6? 

both now added http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ColmaFD (Jan 17, 2007)

*Re: (Silver Reflexion)*

I love this thread.


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## Silver Reflexion (May 1, 2005)

*Re: (ColmaFD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ColmaFD* »_I love this thread.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## lslugz (Sep 7, 2006)

nice info


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## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: (Pteezy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pteezy* »_DSG was available in TDI new beetles 04+

_Modified by Pteezy at 6:14 PM 6-15-2007_

I second that, I have the DSG in my '05.


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## Turbo99jetta (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: (Pelican18TQA4)*

yes great info!!


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## Silver Reflexion (May 1, 2005)

*Re: (Pteezy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pteezy* »_Dsg was available in TDI new beetles 04+



great addition Nate! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## thutty2 (May 12, 2004)

*Re: (Silver Reflexion)*

Just a little more information I have found. Porsche originally built a working dsg like gearbox (PDK) for its 956 and 962 endurance prototypes in the early 1980's. VW/Audi asked Borg Warner to develop the system for road cars. Supposedly they have 5 year exclusive rights to the system.


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## Silver Reflexion (May 1, 2005)

*Re: (thutty2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thutty2* »_Just a little more information I have found. Porsche originally built a working dsg like gearbox (PDK) for its 956 and 962 endurance prototypes in the early 1980's. VW/Audi asked Borg Warner to develop the system for road cars. Supposedly they have 5 year exclusive rights to the system. 

this is true:
Volkswagen doesn't actually make the DSG. “DSG” is a Volkswagen trademark for the technology.
“DSG” is made by a US company called BorgWarner. BorgWarner calls their product "DualTronic". BorgWarner purchased a well-known German transmission company. Also, VW has several other suppliers, depending on torque rating etc. For example, they have a low-torque dry-clutch version of the system that just came out. 
Volkswagen helped fund development of “DualTronic” in exchange for an exclusive 5 year deal with BorgWarner on the technology"


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## Groucho (Aug 26, 2003)

Sweet. Mechanopr0n.


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## Silver Reflexion (May 1, 2005)

*Re: (Groucho)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## NoDubJustYet (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: (american gigolo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *american gigolo* »_what about the 06 passat V6? 

regardless of what you see on the vwfeatures.com website, the Passat doesn't have DSG.


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## Aaronsmity (May 8, 2007)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (Silver Reflexion)*

every time i look at a picture of a DSG it makes me wonder what life would be like without engineers


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## quailallstar (Dec 2, 2001)

So how fast does the DSG shift compared to other cars (ex. Ferrari F1 system, SMG,)? Also, is the DSG shift speed the same on all cars like GTI and Jetta diesel?


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## slib77 (Jun 26, 2007)

What is the max power our DSG's can handle?


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## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: (quailallstar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *quailallstar* »_So how fast does the DSG shift compared to other cars (ex. Ferrari F1 system, SMG,)? Also, is the DSG shift speed the same on all cars like GTI and Jetta diesel?

Having spent extensive time in both a GTI DSG and my car (TDI DSG), I'd say that the DSG coupled to the 2.0T in the GTI definitely shifts faster. But, it also shifts differently. It's hard to explain, but it just shifts differently compared to my TDI.


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## John Y (Apr 27, 1999)

*Re: (Pelican18TQA4)*

I'd like to know more about differences between various DSG applications - whether the parameters of oepration are programmed differently, whtehr there is different tuning/tweaking, or whether it simply works alittle differently in conjunction with different engines. I first drove DSG almost 4 years ago in a MK I TT VR6. Not really impressed...I figured it was a good automatic, but that was about it. Didn't seem to shift that quickly or crisply. When I bought my GTI last February/March, I never even considered DSG. This year, (last week) I drove several Mk II TT Roadster 2.0Ts w/DSG - I REALLY liked the way it worked, shifting much more crisply and quickly than I remembered - really seamless. Makes me wish I had it in my GTI now, since I mostly drive that one in and around NYC...


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## FlyingTurtle (Mar 26, 2006)

*Re: (Pelican18TQA4)*

good info


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## SickWrathTerror (May 15, 2007)

*Re: (John Y)*

The MKI TT 3.2 was the first DSG application...all models afterward had a newer, revised version with upgraded software apparently http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## D.Passat00 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: (american gigolo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *american gigolo* »_what about the 06 passat V6? 

no current us-spec b6 passat has dsg.
the euro spec b6 passat does have the dsg coupled with the following engines:
2.0 140PS TDI
2.0 TDI 170PS
3.2 V6 250PS
euro spec jettas have dsg coupled with the following engines:
SE 1.4 TSI 140PS 6spd DSG
1.9 TDI 105PS
2.0 TDI 140PS
the euro spec touran also has dsg:
1.4 TSI 140PS
2.0 TDI 140PS
2.0 TDI 170PS DSG
skoda octavia:
1.9 TDI PD DSG 105bhp 
2.0 TDI PD DSG 140bhp
seat leon&altea:
2.0t fsi
2.0 tdi 140 ps
and others.


_Modified by D.Passat00 at 10:16 PM 6-28-2007_


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## Silver Reflexion (May 1, 2005)

*Re: (D.Passat00)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D.Passat00* »_
no current us-spec b6 passat has dsg.
the euro spec b6 passat does have the dsg coupled with the following engines:
2.0 140PS TDI
2.0 TDI 170PS
3.2 V6 250PS
euro spec jettas have dsg coupled with the following engines:
SE 1.4 TSI 140PS 6spd DSG
1.9 TDI 105PS
2.0 TDI 140PS
the euro spec touran also has dsg:
1.4 TSI 140PS
2.0 TDI 140PS
2.0 TDI 170PS DSG
skoda octavia:
1.9 TDI PD DSG 105bhp 
2.0 TDI PD DSG 140bhp
seat leon&altea:
2.0t fsi
2.0 tdi 140 ps
and others.

_Modified by D.Passat00 at 10:16 PM 6-28-2007_

NICE! Added to the list up top! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## slib77 (Jun 26, 2007)

*Re: (slib77)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slib77* »_What is the max power our DSG's can handle?

x2


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## Silver Reflexion (May 1, 2005)

*Re: (slib77)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slib77* »_
x2









I have heard the number 250hp being thrown around, but I know of guys that have it at 300hp with the stock DSG and no problems...so far. 
I believe someone is putting together a chip to compensate and upgrade the DSG to handle higher numbers.
"here are the specs the DSG cars in the MKV lineup. The diesel has the highest peak of 258 lbft. I would assume they all have the same DSG unit.
GTI/GLI 200hp - 207 lbft
GTI 30th 230hp - 221 lbft
GTD 170hp - 258 lbft
R32 250hp - 236 lbft"




_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 1:46 PM 6-29-2007_


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## Ballinfrogs (Feb 10, 2007)

anyone know when the upgrade for the dsg is coming out?


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## slib77 (Jun 26, 2007)

*Re: (Silver Reflexion)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Silver Reflexion* »_
I have heard the number 250hp being thrown around, but I know of guys that have it at 300hp with the stock DSG and no problems...so far. 
I believe someone is putting together a chip to compensate and upgrade the DSG to handle higher numbers.
"here are the specs the DSG cars in the MKV lineup. The diesel has the highest peak of 258 lbft. I would assume they all have the same DSG unit.
GTI/GLI 200hp - 207 lbft
GTI 30th 230hp - 221 lbft
GTD 170hp - 258 lbft
R32 250hp - 236 lbft"
_Modified by Silver Reflexion at 1:46 PM 6-29-2007_

thank you sir.


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## John Y (Apr 27, 1999)

*Re: (SickWrathTerror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SickWrathTerror* »_The MKI TT 3.2 was the first DSG application...all models afterward had a newer, revised version with upgraded software apparently http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

That would explain alot of what I felt.


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## Silver Reflexion (May 1, 2005)

*Re: (John Y)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## SmokinDiesel (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (Silver Reflexion)*

Nice write up.
A suggestion. For clarity, indicate cars/manufacturers offering dual clutch transmissions, and then clarify of those cars which are actually using DSG.
For example, your write up defines "DSG" as being a VW trademarked technology from Borg Warner.
The Bugatti Veyron's transmission was made by Ricardo.
http://www.ricardo.com/enginee...udies
It has a dual clutch transmission, but not a DSG per se.
It would be interesting to find out what other companies are building dual clutch transmissions and for what cars...(Aisin? Getrag? Xtrac?)
Otherwise... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## brennok (Jun 5, 2007)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (SmokinDiesel)*

Sounds like it may be confirmed for the Evo
posted 7/5/07 on mitsubishi's site
New Information about Lancer Evolution's Super All-Wheel Control and Twin Clutch SST Gearbox
2007-07-05 02:10 PM
The Insider has just received a hot-off-the-copy-machine press release detailing some of the specifics of the next-gen Lancer Evolution's "S-AWC®" vehicle dynamics control system and the "Twin Clutch SST®" automated manual transmission. But what do these systems do? Technologies this advanced are probably best explained by the experts who developed them. Just the same, those of us who aren't mechanical engineers might want to take a look at the press release from Japan instead. Download PDF »
- The Insider


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## venom600 (Sep 9, 2002)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (brennok)*

Here's something else. Usually tech like this filters down from racing to road cars (and technically, Porsche had it first decades ago), but in this case, F1 didn't adopt "seamless shift" gearboxes until late last year, and even then every team doesn't have them.


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## [email protected] (Dec 12, 2001)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (venom600)*

The history section could use a little cleaning up.

_Quote »_
DSG history: Porsche invented DSG more than 20 years ago, hence the Audi/VW connection as of late.
Porsche stopped using DSG on their cars because of the significant power that their current models put out. (I am not sure they ever used it in production cars, or in large numbers)
Rumor has it that the single clutch model used on the Audi R8 can make its way BACK to the Porsches. A beefed up 2 clutch version to possibly follow.


The connection of late between VAG and Porsche doesn't really have anything to do with DSG at all. It's an economic survival move on Porsche's part - they don't want VAG getting taken over should the state decide to sell off their holdings - Porsche shares a lot of development costs with VAG, and they didn't want to risk that going away should VAG get taken over.
Porsche did have a DSG like transmission, called PDK (Porsche Doppel Kupplungen - note that I can't spell in German...) that they ran in the 956 and 962C race cars. They never had it in any production cars, and the reason that they didn't had NOTHING to do with how much power their production cars put out - the 956 made over 600HP, while the 962 made 780HP, and both cars used PDK. The problem with it back then was that it was an expensive technology, especially for a company as small as Porsche.
Also, as has been mentioned, the R-tronic transmission in the Audi R8 has nothing to do with DSG at all. It is a single clutch transmission, and I don't believe that Porsche would have any reason to use any version of it, as they are coming out with a road going version of PDK for the 997 Turbo which will also make its way into their other cars.
-Tim


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## vabeach337 (Aug 1, 2004)

what are the engine rpms at various speeds, I'm mostly interested in 60mph and 80mph when mated to the 2.0T, and VR6?


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## [email protected] (Dec 12, 2001)

*Re: (vabeach337)*

In my 2.0T GTI, I noticed this morning that 60-65 mph on the highway in 6th is right about 2000 - 2500 rpm or so. (Yes, it's a DSG car...) I can go look more carefully later.
-Tim


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## vabeach337 (Aug 1, 2004)

thanks, for the quick reply...just wondering if the gearing is a lil more conservative, than in the o2m
80mph at 3200rpm for 1000 miles is not fun, responsive though


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## SlvrAroGLX (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (SilverSLC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SilverSLC* »_It is a single clutch transmission, and I don't believe that Porsche would have any reason to use any version of it, as they are coming out with a road going version of PDK for the 997 Turbo which will also make its way into their other cars.
-Tim

Just wondered where you got this info.,.. as i had never heard it.


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## vr6fanatic (Apr 5, 2003)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (SlvrAroGLX)*

great info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I do believe HPA has an MKV R32 with DSG running at 575Hp


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## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: (vabeach337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vabeach337* »_thanks, for the quick reply...just wondering if the gearing is a lil more conservative, than in the o2m
80mph at 3200rpm for 1000 miles is not fun, responsive though

Sixth gear in the DSG has just about the same overall ratio as the 02M so RPM will be very similar. DSG at 80mph is about 3,000 RPM.


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## that1guy (Dec 4, 2004)

why do Volkswagen and Audi both claim that the DSG shifts in 200ms, when all i have been reading is that it shifts in 8ms. The new MS edition of the F430 shifts in 60ms, and that with a SMG. I had a thread in the DSG forum about this, but some dick head decided to have it go to ****.


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## [email protected] (Dec 12, 2001)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (SlvrAroGLX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SlvrAroGLX* »_
Just wondered where you got this info.,.. as i had never heard it.

I could be completely wrong about this, I suppose, but it's one of those things that's discussed all over the place, and I know I've read it in _Excellence_ at least several times. I can go look up specifics, because I hate it when people do what I just did and post unverified information...








It also may not be "PDK" like the PDK in the race cars was, but a useage of the Borg-Warner or other similar technology, too, but of course they'd call it PDK.
-Tim


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## [email protected] (Dec 12, 2001)

*Re: (vabeach337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vabeach337* »_thanks, for the quick reply...just wondering if the gearing is a lil more conservative, than in the o2m
80mph at 3200rpm for 1000 miles is not fun, responsive though

I had a 340 mile road trip last night, and I checked. 80MPH in my car in 6th is a hair below 3,000 RPM.
It's nice and quiet, though - the only thing I was noticing, noise wise, was tire and wind.
-Tim


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## vabeach337 (Aug 1, 2004)

thanks guys for the responses...I'm looking at getting a TT 3.2 MK1 after the 337 is paid off next fall...just doing window shopping and researching


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## micky1init (Jun 4, 2006)

the different models ie, 2.0L gti dsg, edition 30 dsg and the r32 dsg all have different "mechatronic" controllers. this allows for more torque to be transmitted. gti dsg's struggle to shift gears 5-6 with a higher torque than about 270 ftlbs i no mines GIAC'd and i have to shift 5-6 with the paddles


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## NillaGoon (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: (micky1init)*

Might add this link as well - nice general DSG info, mostly from a mechanical perspective.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/...n.htm


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## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

*Re: (NillaGoon)*

Looking for changes from the '06 & '07 DSG transmissions to '08 transmission.
Specifically if there was a change at all, and if they changed by going from a wet sump to dry sump, and what those implications are for power & torque holding capability.
I'm completely assuming the DSG might have been upgraded in anticipation of a '09 power bump.
Thanks, 
KH


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## Tucci (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: (that1guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *that1guy* »_why do Volkswagen and Audi both claim that the DSG shifts in 200ms, when all i have been reading is that it shifts in 8ms. The new MS edition of the F430 shifts in 60ms, and that with a SMG. I had a thread in the DSG forum about this, but some dick head decided to have it go to ****.

The DSG can shift in 8ms. I do not think it is programed that agressive however.


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (Kid Hobo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kid Hobo* »_Specifically if there was a change at all, and if they changed by going from a wet sump to dry sump, and what those implications are for power & torque holding capability.


The dry clutch dsg you're referring to is a 7 speed destined for smaller displacement engines, like the TSFI. So its fair to say its torque rating is less than ours.
There should be no need to redesign the current dsg for any additional power we MIGHT see in 2009. The ed 30 GTI sold in Europe already pushes more hp & tq through the existing 6 speed dsg. Not to mention the R32 and its additional power.


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## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

*Re: (bcze1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bcze1* »_
The dry clutch dsg you're referring to is a 7 speed destined for smaller displacement engines, like the TSFI. So its fair to say its torque rating is less than ours.
There should be no need to redesign the current dsg for any additional power we MIGHT see in 2009. The ed 30 GTI sold in Europe already pushes more hp & tq through the existing 6 speed dsg. Not to mention the R32 and its additional power.

Ah, that's where my confusion lies, I'm getting my 6 & 7 speed info clouded together. 
Thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Good1Spd (Oct 12, 2003)

I cant find the article but im really positive that the euro R passat with the 3.6 was coupled with DSG. 
/Edit I found it
In a world-premiere showing, Volkswagen will present its new Passat R36 at the Essen Motor Show on November 30. This, the most powerful Passat ever, is propelled by a 3.6-litre, six-cylinder, 220-kW / 300-hp direct-injection petrol engine (3.6 FSI). * Power transmission is supplied by a series-fitted direct-shift gearbox (DSG) and permanent all-wheel drive (4MOTION). * Maximum speed in the saloon is electronically set to the cut-off point of 250 km/h. The Passat R36 achieves the fastest acceleration from 0 to 100 km/h of any Volkswagen, with the saloon reaching the mark in 5.6 seconds and the variant in 5.8. 


_Modified by Good1Spd at 9:05 AM 10-17-2007_


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## joeyvdubGLI (Jan 12, 2006)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (Silver Reflexion)*

Does anyone know which DSG models are swappable/compatible with other chassis? I've had a recent random mishap which may cause me to replace my transmission, not power related though... more like a brick on the highway related.















Anyway I'm going BT and all that later on, and I just figure since I'm forced to get tranny work done, might as well upgrade! (LSD and anything else available) 
So I'm wondering if I should just stay with the original DSG, or is there some other version I could use on my MK5 that may be better??? Like could I grab one of the new 7 speed DSG's and plug and play??? Any ideas & input on this would be greatly appreciated.


_Modified by joeyvdubGLI at 1:30 AM 7-11-2008_


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## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: (micky1init)*


_Quote, originally posted by *micky1init* »_the different models ie, 2.0L gti dsg, edition 30 dsg and the r32 dsg all have different "mechatronic" controllers. this allows for more torque to be transmitted. gti dsg's struggle to shift gears 5-6 with a higher torque than about 270 ftlbs i no mines GIAC'd and i have to shift 5-6 with the paddles

I'm running atleast 350whp on my DSG and it shifts perfect I'm ready to tune the the car for over 400whp. Everyone is waiting on a cheaper upgrade so we can run more power as soon as one comes out I'm sure it will sell like CRAZY!


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## RPIJG (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (fahrenheit 525)*

It would be nice also to see if we can get a listing of Transmission Codes for the DSG's, apparently there are several "versions" of the DSG within even same model years...if you believe my dealer...which I only do slightly.
Apparently I have some mystical, magical HUT code DSG, that is NON-Launch control codeable.


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## svander (Oct 31, 2003)

*Re: (RPIJG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RPIJG* »_It would be nice also to see if we can get a listing of Transmission Codes for the DSG's, apparently there are several "versions" of the DSG within even same model years...if you believe my dealer...which I only do slightly.
Apparently I have some mystical, magical HUT code DSG, that is NON-Launch control codeable.

It's true.
May want to read through this thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2989174


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## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (Tucci)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tucci* »_
The DSG can shift in 8ms. I do not think it is programed that agressive however.
 correct..it is programmed for 200ms so that the driver doesnt feel it jerk on every shift.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (theguy1084)*

Can anybody update this database with the specs on the R36 (Euro) DSG?
Is it any different than the 3.2L R32 DSG?
Yes, not specific to MKV but needs to be added to the database if there is indeed a known answer.
Happy Turkey Day.


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## alkeemik (Nov 1, 2004)

Euro spec Golf IV R32 '03 has DSG too.


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## rodeopunk_je87 (Feb 22, 2008)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (Silver Reflexion)*

Does anyone know if it's just the GLI and GTI that have launch control? I have a jetta 2.0T but when I follow the instructions to use it I get nothing...once the EMCS realizes my car isn't going anyway my engine power cuts off and just goes back to idling and 1000 RPM's. So does the launch control belong specifically to those two models?


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## bazzle (Sep 17, 2008)

MkV R32 run 40 kph per 1000rpms in 6th gear.
ie. 2500 @ 100kph (62mph)
Bazzle


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (rodeopunk_je87)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rodeopunk_je87* »_Does anyone know if it's just the GLI and GTI that have launch control? I have a jetta 2.0T but when I follow the instructions to use it I get nothing...once the EMCS realizes my car isn't going anyway my engine power cuts off and just goes back to idling and 1000 RPM's. So does the launch control belong specifically to those two models?

yeah you most likely do not have it installed, IIRC the only cars that have it installed are the GTI/GLI and the r32. you could always go the route of getting the DSG flashed by HPA and take it to stage 2 which will give you LC and a bunch more goodies


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## rodeopunk_je87 (Feb 22, 2008)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (tdotA3mike)*

Thanks! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm gonna have to save up for that one...$900 bones! I can get a used full exhaust for that amount!








They're not playing around.


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## syncro4all (Nov 4, 2002)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (rodeopunk_je87)*

Anyone have much information about the DSG(7 speed) in the upcoming B8 S4? My first experience with DSG was TT mk1 and might first reaction was What have they done to my car? I am now looking at DSG out of necessity, i.e. my left leg hurts sometimes and I AM getting older. Even with DSG I would be manually shifting 98% of the time. My biggest issue with DSG was the "automatic" style shifter rather than something like the SMG shifter in BMW's. NOW the biggest concern seems to be all the failures of DSG.


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## VWRedux (Jun 3, 2009)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (syncro4all)*

Nice car.... http://blogs.cars.com/kickingt....html
Hopfully these new 2nd generation DSG's will be better.
http://www.motorauthority.com/....html
Good luck!










_Modified by VWRedux at 3:35 PM 7-19-2009_


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## chrishart1 (Jul 2, 2003)

Seems like this sticky needs to be updated for 2008 and 2009 cars with DSG and 2.0t combo (namely GTI and Jetta SEL wagon-only).
That's according to my dealer, who also said that no U.S. Tiguans have DSG. They could be wrong, obviously, but that's what I was told.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

*Re: The Ultimate DSG Knowledge Base (syncro4all)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syncro4all* »_Anyone have much information about the DSG(7 speed) in the upcoming B8 S4? My first experience with DSG was TT mk1 and might first reaction was What have they done to my car? I am now looking at DSG out of necessity, i.e. my left leg hurts sometimes and I AM getting older. Even with DSG I would be manually shifting 98% of the time. My biggest issue with DSG was the "automatic" style shifter rather than something like the SMG shifter in BMW's. NOW the biggest concern seems to be all the failures of DSG. 
I don't know if I can agree with you about the BMG shifter. When I drove it, I thought what is this? How is this supposed "automated manual" able to be driven by anyone else besides the primary drive (not sure spouse would even know how to use it).
When I saw the SMG being configured to look like a slushbox, I thought this is the way to wider acceptance. I have to admit, I would end up driving what looks like a slushbox, but the experience is driving it, especially with the paddle.


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## motoracer47 (Jul 3, 2012)

I guess this is a pretty old thread now (last post was 2009) All in all, good info in this thread. Much better than the first link the FAQ (How does DSG work and what is it really) that thread has incorrect info and probably should be deleted.


Im gonna assume most people have read the article on rematec news about the DSG teardown? If not, here is the linky--http://www.rematecnews.com/news/Pages/Rebuilding-a-DSG-transmission.aspx....this one is pretty good, though its got some incorrect info as well, (though it may just be more typo errors or non-proofreading based...example----- the DSG transmission shifts into two gears simultaneously - one of which is actually driving the output shaft through the engaged clutch.------that's not really correct, drive does not go back through the clutch, or maybe they just worded it weird, but the way that should have been worded is: the DSG transmission shifts into two gears simultaneously - one of which is actually be driven by the engaged clutch, and that driven gear then sends drive through the output shaft to the differential.

Anyways, good info in the link I posted, not sure if it has been posted before, so figured I would throw it up here.


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## JamesHamel (Dec 11, 2013)

*Article: Pros and Cons of Living with the DSG Double Clutch Auto. Opinions?*

Hey guys and gals! My name is James Hamel and each day on a site called TorqueNews.com where I talk about a different Volkswagen related topic ranging from news to reviews (I was lucky enough to attend a drive event hosted by VW earlier this year in Napa where I got time to drive every 2014 model, a Euro spec Scirocco as well as the 2015 Golf TDI and GTI. I own a 2013 Golf TDI manual which I love but have always been impressed by VW's DSG. Check out my article and let me know if you liked it or even if you thought anything negative. I welcome any feedback!

Here us the link!


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