# Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share...



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

I've been running around with this custom water injection setup I pieced together for quite some time with great results, especially in the southern California heat. I was doing some maintenance yesterday (checking that the nozzle was clean) and decided to take some pictures of the setup.
Here's the basic water line layout of the system:








I use the windshield washer reservoir as the water / methanol tank. It conveniently holds a gallon. Just add a few barb fittings:








The lower fitting feeds the inlet of the pump (which is a SHURflo 100 psi water pump). The exit of the pump T's off, with one line going to the nozzle, and the other to a needle valve before returning to the washer reservoir.
















The pump is a VERY high flow unit. The flow through the nozzle is negligible, so I can set the system pressure by adjusting the flow back to the tank through the needle valve. I currently have it set for 100 psi, but it will go as high as 110 psi.
The beauty of the system is really the injection ring and nozzle, mounted directly before the throttle body. There is a custom check valve with a 2 psi cracking pressure installed right before the ring to prevent flow back towards the pump when the system is not in use, and to prevent water from dripping into the intake when the car is off. I reinforced the check valve body with two small aluminum plates because it was complaining about the 100 psi system pressure.
















I machined the ring itself from two pieces of brass, and then silver soldered them together.
















Mounted in the center is a research grade fogging nozzle, capable of producing a mist of incredibly fine water droplets, with a large percentage being under 50 microns. This helps the mixture flow with the air and get an even distribution in the manifold. It also ensures a large cooling effect by injecting the water with the most possible surface area. Check out this monster in action:








And that's pretty much it. The pump is of course wired through a standard 12 V automotive relay, driven by a boost-sensitive switch (currently set at 4 psi). I've got two LEDs mounted in the cabin in one of the dummy switches in the console: one that lights when the pump is operating, and one that lights when the water level drops too low in the washer reservoir (the latter was wired up using an AC water detecting circuit, available as a kit at most electronics hobby stores).
I havn't done too much experimenting with different mixtures. There's currently a 40% methanol / water mixture in the reservoir right now. I buy my methanol in 5 gallon tanks from my local VP Racing Fuels distributer.
I'd have to lookup from where I purchased everything, but here's a rough cost breakdown:
100 psi pump, $100
atomizing nozzle, $35
raw materials for brass ring, $10
custom check valve, $10
boost switch, $20
relay, $5
needle valve, $3
miscellaneous fittings, clamps, and lines, $35
Total, ~$218
Whoopin' on some car and crediting your custom water injection setup, priceless.










[Modified by Marty, 10:38 PM 9-2-2002]


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## vw16vcabby (Sep 19, 2001)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

system looks like it would work good. but any hard numbers to back it up? notice any gauges drop in their readings, etc. Either way, http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for some diy engineering.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (vw16vcabby)*

Timing now stays advanced under boost, according to the VAG-COM.








Edited due to new findings.


[Modified by Marty, 2:40 PM 9-14-2002]


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

nice stuff http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

Very cool! Where'd you get the atomizing nozzle?


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (JettaRed)*

Please tell where I can get some of those nozzles


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

Do you plan on offering a "kit"?










[Modified by BlownGinster, 11:59 PM 9-2-2002]


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (JettaRed)*

The nozzle is made by BETE Fog Nozzle, Inc. It's a PJ series nozzle: http://www.bete.com/products/pages/pj.htm
I'm running a PJ12, which at 100 psi flows 2.16 gph.

















[Modified by Marty, 4:00 PM 9-2-2002]


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## SCVR6 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

15.5 AF! Is that correct? That's pretty lean.


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (SCVR6)*

That's a peak number. Watch the curve as his rpms's increase and that shows the air fuel ratio as he accelerates. Speaking of, you go very rich mid range, how come?


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## evoeone (Feb 27, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (2kjettaguy)*

what is water injection? is it used similar to nitrous cause of the methanol in it? why would you want water in the cylinder


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (2kjettaguy)*

quote:[HR][/HR]That's a peak number. Watch the curve as his rpms's increase and that shows the air fuel ratio as he accelerates. Speaking of, you go very rich mid range, how come?[HR][/HR]​It was a rigged setup at the time. I had 310cc injectors, with a voltage divide on the MAF output, and a chip designed for normal injectors. The result was some odd fueling.


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## ERTW (Jan 17, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

Marty,
Is that enough water injected for the boost and airflow you are running. 2.16gph, is 136cc/min. At 25 deg C and 50%RH at redline of 7000rpm, the motor is already consuming about 140cc/min of natural water vapor. So with the your injected water the air at mentioned parameters should be at saturation. However with the increased temp from the boost, you may require more water to increase the charge density. Just a thought.
Other than that, it looks real slick.


[Modified by ERTW, 10:52 PM 9-2-2002]


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## Starbug (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

what? no dynamat?
psssh


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (ERTW)*

quote:[HR][/HR]At 25 deg C and 50%RH at redline of 7000rpm, the motor is already consuming about 140cc/min of natural water vapor.[HR][/HR]​Yep. However I'm not sure whether or not the water has time to vaporize completely before it is swept into the cylinder. I plan on trying a larger nozzle to see if that has any noticeable effect, but I havn't decided on a size. I don't want to take too much heat out of the combustion process. I believe this is all empirical at this point.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Starbug)*

quote:[HR][/HR]what? no dynamat?[HR][/HR]​Nah, can't hear the pump at WOT.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (BlownGinster)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Do you plan on offering a "kit"?[HR][/HR]​Unless I get to charge the standard car mod markup of 150%, I think not.


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## Flavourless (Jun 23, 2001)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

i know this is for FI'd cars, would there be any sugnificance(sp?) in putting it on a na'd car?


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Euro Flavour)*

quote:[HR][/HR]i know this is for FI'd cars, would there be any sugnificance(sp?) in putting it on a na'd car?[HR][/HR]​Probably not. Water injection is used to (1) cool the charge and (2) reduce detonation. With a NA car, cooling the charge is irrelevant and detonation should be addressed with reduced compression or higher octane. Turbo and supercharged cars have the added "problem" of hot air and induced high compression.
With a NA car, you'd probably bog down.


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## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (JettaRed)*

After looking at the air fuel , i'd have to say it shows some resemblance to the corrado (small) injectors. They go static and do the same song and dance down rich, then urching back up. 
Is your duty cycle exceeding 85%? Or the pressure itself (fuel pressure gauge) not holding? 
Just curious.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (mrkrad)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Is your duty cycle exceeding 85%? Or the pressure itself (fuel pressure gauge) not holding? [HR][/HR]​Back then the DC was around 90% at 6000 RPM and was at 100% by 6500 RPM.


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## speed51133!! (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (JettaRed)*

quote:[HR][/HR]i know this is for FI'd cars, would there be any sugnificance(sp?) in putting it on a na'd car?
Probably not. Water injection is used to (1) cool the charge and (2) reduce detonation. With a NA car, cooling the charge is irrelevant and detonation should be addressed with reduced compression or higher octane. Turbo and supercharged cars have the added "problem" of hot air and induced high compression.
With a NA car, you'd probably bog down.[HR][/HR]​water injection was first used on NA cars. it helps them as well.


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## -=SpAwN=- (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

Marty, I think windshield washer reservoir you use is 4.2 liter version, how long can you drive around before you need to refill that reservoir?
Great setup btw http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
EDIT: Sorry i didnt saw this part...
quote:[HR][/HR]*Originally posted by :Marty  *
I'm running a PJ12, which at 100 psi flows *2.16* gph.[HR][/HR]​4.2 Liters = 1.10964 US Gallons and since you said that you set your system for 100 psi you can use it for 30mins above 4psi
or not ???








thx


[Modified by -=SpAwN=-, 3:04 AM 9-4-2002]


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (speed51133!!)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
water injection was first used on NA cars. it helps them as well.[HR][/HR]​Cool. I didn't know that.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (-=SpAwN=-)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Marty, I think windshield washer reservoir you use is 4.2 liter version, how long can you drive around before you need to refill that reservoir?[HR][/HR]​A LONG time. I've never had to refill it separately from when I've removed the tank or disconnected the system for some reason or another.
At 2.16 gph, I'd have to sit at WOT above 4 psi for about 30 minutes to run the tank dry. Assuming I sit at these conditions for an average of 20 seconds per day, I'd have to refill the tank four times a year.


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## -=SpAwN=- (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

Thx for the reply man see my edit above posted one minut before your post








its very long time indeed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Lotust (Apr 5, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (-=SpAwN=-)*

would this help me get more HP on my stock NS SC setup? 
I use to water cool my PC


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (-=SpAwN=-)*

quote:[HR][/HR]its very long time indeed[HR][/HR]​I think evaporation will be faster.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Lotust)*

quote:[HR][/HR]would this help me get more HP on my stock NS SC setup?[HR][/HR]​I'm sure it would, if tuned correctly (best flow and water / methanol mixture). Ya gotta be careful or you can lose power. Just experiment.


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## Scirocco G60T (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

what if u decide to use alcohol instead of water ???


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Scirocco G60T)*

quote:[HR][/HR]what if u decide to use alcohol instead of water ??? [HR][/HR]​I'm running 40% methanol at the moment. I think I'm going to turn down the pressure a bit and drop the flowrate.


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## SILVERADO (May 16, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

You are very cool.That is a ingenious setup and my hats off to you for doing it at such a low cost.


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## -=SpAwN=- (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (evoeone)*

quote:[HR][/HR]*Originally posted by :evoeone  *
what is water injection? is it used similar to nitrous cause of the methanol in it? why would you want water in the cylinder[HR][/HR]​Here a article from Scirocco G60T out his homepage:
Water Injection 
Great article btw Scirocco G60T http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
quote:[HR][/HR]*Originally posted by :Lotust  *
I use to water cool my PC







[HR][/HR]​Me to!


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (-=SpAwN=-)*

I was going to watercool my PC... but AMDs don't seem to respond as well to cooling as the Pentium stuff. I wouldn't mind one of those new 2600+s though.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Scirocco G60T)*

quote:[HR][/HR]what if u decide to use alcohol instead of water ???







[HR][/HR]​ERL (a.k.a. Aquamist) warns that a mixture of more than 50% methanol to water will significantly increase head temperatures and negate the effect of the cooling.


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## audioteknik (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (JettaRed)*

ttt


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (audioteknik)*

That is pretty cool Marty http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Are the nozzles really that much better than the aquamist ones? It does look like a finer spray in the picture but its tough to tell.
F.Y.I. There is a group buy going on for aquamist on bimmerforums. Every person an additional 1% of the price up to 20% off. I believe the count is 15% off right now.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (TooLFan46n2)*

Yep, the mist looks quite a bit finer (I've tested both types), and they're spec'd at being quite a bit finer. But they only come in those threaded pieces... which was ideal for my design, but may not be for integrating with current aquamist setups.


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## SaabFan (Mar 23, 2001)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

Looks like a very well done system.
I've got two questions:
1) Would you mind posting source(s) for the more important parts? Mostly the pump and nozzle - the link you posted for the nozzle provided some great info, but where can you actually buy it from?








2) Did you play (or are you going to play) with the location of the nozzle at all in the intake path? What made you put it right before the throttle body? It seems that I've heard two different camps out there - the first group that claims father away from the TB is better since it provides for more room for the water to evaporate and mix with the air, and the second group that claims that having it far away allows the droplets to condense out of the air and makes droplet size much larger.
Thanks, and again - cool system! It's always nice to see well-done home-made modifications, and even nicer when the maker is willing to share information. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
-Nate


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (SaabFan)*

how about a water nozzle in each runner of the intake manifold. Direct port water injection.
i know, it seems funny, but why not?


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (SaabFan)*

I'll try to gather some more info on from where I purchased everything.
Direct port would work well for having water present during combustion to reduce detonation, but wouldn't do much in terms of cooling down the air on the way... all in all I'd say a lesser amount of water via direct port would be a better solution. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

Someone just asked about the pump I used, so I dug it up. My pump is from this series: http://www.shurflo.com/pages/new_industrial/Industrial/automotive/subcategories/8000_ADP_12DVC.html
Get the high pressure version (it can hit 150 psi). The various pumps in that series can be found online by searching for the part number via Google for around $80-$130.
The nozzle can be ordered directly from BETE Fog Nozzle, Inc. The nozzle I used was a PJ series (gives the finest fog): http://www.bete.com/products/pages/pj.htm
Choose the correct PJ model for the flow you want based on your system pressure.
You can order a boost-sensitive switch for $20 from http://www.dawesdevices.com.
Use fuel-injection line from an automotive parts store for the water lines in the smallest diameter you can find.
The needle valve and various fittings can be found at a plumbing supply store.
The mounting of the nozzle is up to you.










[Modified by Marty, 4:04 PM 2-22-2003]


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## PhOO (May 23, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

im thinking of using a Bosch CIS Cold Start Injector.. it makes a nice fine continuous mist and can be found at many local junk yards for cheap.. i got mine for $2.00


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (PhOO)*

Careful, fuel injectors are designed for fuel, which is not corrosive. Water will likely rust out that injector quickly.


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

Hey Marty I had a question about the water injection. If that nozzel is threaded could I bore and tap a hole some were right behind the throttle body. I have an extra OBD1 up manifold that I am playing with any way.?


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Scooter98144)*

The nozzle has a 1/8 NPT thread. You will have to make some sort of bushing or adapter to mount the nozzle in your intake and still thread a fitting to connect the water line to it. If you put the nozzle after the TB in the manifold you should use a check valve with a high cracking pressure to prevent water from being sucked into the manifold under vacuum. Or you can run a pressure line to a sealed tank.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

Wow! The pics still work too!







I remember this thread from when I first started checking out the Forced Induction forums ...


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Agtronic)*

how about direct port water nozzles that are triggered to fire when the injector opens, so you dont have stagnent water during 3 of the 4 strokes?


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (speed51133!)*

But a big part of water injection is the cooling effect it has. So doing direct port and timming it with the fuel injector is you are not soing as much charge air cooling as you are when you mount just before the throttle. Plus this tends to steam clean the combustion chamber.
I need to order that book on turbo charging as I want to learn more about how these interact. For example if I make an intercooler that end up with as 2 PSI pressure drop then add a 2 PSI pulley I should make the same or more power but have little problem with heat soke and the engine would see lower air intakes and add more timming.?
I want to learn how all this works so I do not spend time trying stuff that does not work.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (speed51133!)*

quote:[HR][/HR]how about direct port water nozzles that are triggered to fire when the injector opens, so you dont have stagnent water during 3 of the 4 strokes?







[HR][/HR]​The stock motronic is pulsing all of the injectors at the same time anyway so maybe one should work on that first...


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The stock motronic is pulsing all of the injectors at the same time anyway so maybe one should work on that first...







[HR][/HR]​I hate to bring your topic off track, but motronic is batch fired?!!! Damn! Now I don't feel so bad ditching it for SDS, which also happens to be batch fired! Nice!


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## Yellow Snow (Mar 20, 2003)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Veedub4me)*

obd2 motronic is sequential.
obd1 is batch.
IIRC


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Custom water injection setup... thought I'd share... (Marty)*

I'm currently developing a new programmable map-based system for sh!ts and giggles, so this setup is off the car and I am accepting offers if anyone is interested in picking it up....


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## 86WolfsburgGLI (Apr 19, 2004)

WOW i give u masive props on that one,.. you are a smart mother sucka


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