# VR6 sidewinder manifold ?!?!



## BlakVRTBeast (Feb 17, 2009)

whats going on guys ... was doing a lil research and i couldn't really come up with anything ... has anyone ever seen it or have any pix or info on it ?? interested for the 24V, but i will entertain the 12V stuff as well.. i know forcfed did a 20V for his car


----------



## BlakVRTBeast (Feb 17, 2009)

either there is not interest or no one has ever done one ... i guess ill b the first in that case


----------



## radoman57 (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: (BlakVRTBeast)*

something like this?


----------



## charlie hayes (Jun 4, 2007)

no like this....


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: VR6 sidewinder manifold ?!?! (BlakVRTBeast)*

my concern with doing a sidemount on a VR would be all the plastic and electronics on that side of the motor. although there are solutions to those hurdles, just means more work.


----------



## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

*Re: VR6 sidewinder manifold ?!?! (TBT-Syncro)*

I don't see why when there is ample room behind the motor.


----------



## charlie hayes (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: VR6 sidewinder manifold ?!?! (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_my concern with doing a sidemount on a VR would be all the plastic and electronics on that side of the motor. although there are solutions to those hurdles, just means more work.

Truth. I don't see why you couldn't go the other way though. Only thing that would get in the way that way would be the fuel lines and the lack of space vs the other side.


----------



## littlenr (Jan 23, 2002)

*FV-QR*

There was a R32 that had this done a while back.


----------



## charlie hayes (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (littlenr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *littlenr* »_There was a R32 that had this done a while back.


















Talking about that car? its a 1.8t...


----------



## BlakVRTBeast (Feb 17, 2009)

im def going to do one on my 24V mk3 ... gonna have to relocate the coolant bottle and probly gonna have to do something about the lil brake fluid bottle as well


----------



## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

reverse master in this case ! 
as for coolant you could delete the bottle and put a remote filler cap and run a little hose from it to a hidden reservoir just like all the american made cars
http://www.siliconeintakes.com...2c81c


----------



## BlakVRTBeast (Feb 17, 2009)

yes i was thinking bout getting rid of the bottle as well and maybe something like a willwood master cylinder


----------



## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (BlakVRTBeast)*

Go big or go home








Just go home


----------



## BlakVRTBeast (Feb 17, 2009)

got anymore pix ?? looks pretty nice


----------



## DWI_gti (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: (BlakVRTBeast)*

not many pics of that R the garage never finished it.


----------



## 2925 (Dec 11, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (charlie hayes)*


_Quote, originally posted by *charlie hayes* »_









Talking about that car? its a 1.8t... 


wrong. it's a 1.8tG60


----------



## charlie hayes (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (2925)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2925* »_

wrong. it's a 1.8tG60

Still a 1.8t though.....


----------



## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *DWI_gti* »_not many pics of that R the garage never finished it. 


been wondering about this car lately. any recent pictures of it? too bad for the guy, he got taken advantage of like a lot of people who go there. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## kyle_b (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Flipdriver80)*


----------



## BlakVRTBeast (Feb 17, 2009)

i like that set up but thats not really a sidewinder


----------



## misc.motorsports (Dec 2, 2006)

*Re: (BlakVRTBeast)*

Not really a sidewinder either but might give you some ideas.
<center>
<br /><br />
<br /><br />
</center>


----------



## Navydub (Sep 30, 2006)

*FV-QR*

My question is why? There's ample room behind the motor for as large as a GT40. Do we really need a bigger turbo than that??


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Navydub* »_My question is why? There's ample room behind the motor for as large as a GT40. Do we really need a bigger turbo than that??


yes you do


----------



## Navydub (Sep 30, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *weenerdog3443* »_
yes you do


I'm happy with my 3586


----------



## BlakVRTBeast (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Navydub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Navydub* »_My question is why? There's ample room behind the motor for as large as a GT40. Do we really need a bigger turbo than that??

i had a GT40R that was gonna use, but change of plans came about and we are gonna go with a precision turbo, those are usually a larger frame turbos compare to the garrett turbos ... also u asked if theres a need to go bigger than a GT40 ? well that all depends on what kinda power you trying to make and what are you building your car for (drag, street etc.)


----------



## BlakVRTBeast (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: (misc.motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *misc.motorsports* »_Not really a sidewinder either but might give you some ideas.
<center>
<br /><br />
<br /><br />
</center>

looks pretty good so far ... had to take a second glance at it to figure it out ... nice project mk2 rear mounted vr6 ..is it gonna be rwd , awd ?


----------



## misc.motorsports (Dec 2, 2006)

*Re: (BlakVRTBeast)*

just rwd drag car only. it will be street legal but I doubt I will ever take it anywhere.


----------



## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

*Re: (misc.motorsports)*

A BW S372 is a huge turbo and it fits behind the vr6..... still wondering about the sidwinder and why it's needed. I'm pretty sure the S376 is the same size too. I'd build a motor and try and max out a S376 before I went through all the hassle to make some weird sidewinder turbo manifold.


----------



## Navydub (Sep 30, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlakVRTBeast* »_
i had a GT40R that was gonna use, but change of plans came about and we are gonna go with a precision turbo, those are usually a larger frame turbos compare to the garrett turbos ... also u asked if theres a need to go bigger than a GT40 ? well that all depends on what kinda power you trying to make and what are you building your car for (drag, street etc.)


It shouldn't matter WHAT you're building it for. The HTA3586(gt35 frame) has gone 9.04 on dadid buschur's evo. So unless your intention is to run faster than 9's i'd say you're alright with a 40 or smaller




_Modified by Navydub at 9:30 AM 3-14-2010_


----------



## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Navydub)*

what was the trap cause you lost me @ 9 sec evo


----------



## Navydub (Sep 30, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *EL DRIFTO* »_what was the trap cause you lost me @ 9 sec evo


Buschurs evo on the HTA 86= 9.04 @159
full interior street car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
http://forums.evolutionm.net/drag-r...s-rs-goes-9-0-video-pictures-products-do.html 
So tell me again why we're running larger than GT40s?????


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

To make crazy peak power i guess....


----------



## BlakVRTBeast (Feb 17, 2009)

how much power does buschur make ? u also cant really comare an AWD car with a HTA86 to a VR6 turbo because they are no where near on the same page


----------



## Navydub (Sep 30, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlakVRTBeast* »_how much power does buschur make ? u also cant really comare an AWD car with a HTA86 to a VR6 turbo because they are no where near on the same page 


My VR6 turbo is awd


----------



## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Navydub)*

Buscher was making 630 some odd awhp i think and it's running 9's, almost 8's. It ran a 9.03 in the video. Chris Green is running 830 some odd awhp with his A4 Quattro VR and only hitting 9's. He's using a Precision 6765SP. So... how much power are you looking for with this sidewinder? You going for 7's or 8's?? I think you'd be the fastest VR if you could accomplish that.


----------



## BlakVRTBeast (Feb 17, 2009)

i never said i was building the sidewinder simply b/c of the fact that i can no fit a turbo back there, there is space to fit a turbo there, im going to try something different with the sidewinder


----------



## Navydub (Sep 30, 2006)

*Re: (BlakVRTBeast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlakVRTBeast* »_i never said i was building the sidewinder simply b/c of the fact that i can no fit a turbo back there, there is space to fit a turbo there, im going to try something different with the sidewinder 

But why?
You're going to open up a whole new set of issues you need to address with space, heat and otherwise by putting the turbo there.
1000+ BHP can be made with the turbo behind the engine. Why fix what ain't broken?


----------



## misc.motorsports (Dec 2, 2006)

*Re: (Navydub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Navydub* »_
But why? Why fix what ain't broken

It's statements like these that are holding vw's from going futher. Creativity and outside the box thinking is how people learn and find new things that work or don't work. If your going to ask why. Then ask why be cookie cutter like everybody else. 
Just my thinking.


----------



## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

*Re: (misc.motorsports)*

Well, the thing to do is to make a equal length properly tuned twin scroll turbo manifold. That'd be the best instead of some weird side winder thing.


----------



## mcdub (Jun 19, 2005)

http://i32.photobucket.com/alb...3.jpg
doesnt even look all welded up


----------



## Navydub (Sep 30, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *misc.motorsports* »_
It's statements like these that are holding vw's from going futher. Creativity and outside the box thinking is how people learn and find new things that work or don't work. If your going to ask why. Then ask why be cookie cutter like everybody else. 
Just my thinking. 









Have you SEEN my build? Click the link in my sig, its far from cookie cutter my friend.
Thinking outside the box for a solution that will make more power, or the power you currently have useable is a great idea. Doing something just to do it is dumb as hell and doesn't progress anything.
So, if OP is planning to do a sidewinder to fit a GT45 and go for 1500whp or something, then great he's furthering the community. However, if he builds it and straps on a GT35, and makes the same numbers as everyone else with a GT35, albeit with slower spool because of the massive primary length, what did he accomplish? A car with the same power as everyone else, slower spool, a ****ty power band, but oooooooh he's different!








Like I said unless op plans to run larger than a GT40, this is POINTLESS. Hell even a 42 might fit behind the engine, I'm not sure anyone has tried.


----------



## BlakVRTBeast (Feb 17, 2009)

i am not trying to do it just to do ... we are trying to do something different aside from everyone else im going to be using a a bit larger frame turbo than a gt40r , this might eventually turn into a strictly drag car so the potential for making even power is very big


----------



## Navydub (Sep 30, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlakVRTBeast* »_i am not trying to do it just to do ... we are trying to do something different aside from everyone else im going to be using a a bit larger frame turbo than a gt40r , this might eventually turn into a strictly drag car so the potential for making even power is very big


A strictly drag car that you want to run how fast in?!?! 8s? 7s? Are you building a Pro FWD car? if not, I still go back to WHY


----------



## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*FV-QR*

the longer runners make the gas into the turbo less restricted like a log manifold. the sidewinder style while excessive on a street car can be very helpful on a drag car where ambient air can be directly sucked into the turbo for cooler intake air.


----------



## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Flipdriver80)*

Because it's so hard to create a pipe to the inlet on your turbo..... also note that once the air is in the turbo it gots hot any ways which is why there are intercoolers.


----------



## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*FV-QR*

yes i am aware of that but a car running full bore for 8-12 seconds is a lot different than running for a couple hours or so. the turbo will get hot but it won't be as sustained. i'm sure some engineer has a worthy explanation for sticking a turbo out the hood of a car.


----------



## Navydub (Sep 30, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flipdriver80* »_the longer runners make the gas into the turbo less restricted like a log manifold. the sidewinder style while excessive on a street car can be very helpful on a drag car where ambient air can be directly sucked into the turbo for cooler intake air. 


A tubular design holding a Gt40 will fit behind the engine without doing a sidewinder. It's been done more than once. So the only reason we have is for cooler air intake temperatures? Seriously?


----------



## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*FV-QR*

shorter intercooler piping as well. no need to run a ton of piping when the turbo is right next to the intake. depends on your intercooler setup as well of course.
btw i'm only speculating here. the performance advantage of this is nil for a street car. it also depends highly on where the exhaust exits the engine. american V8's with the turbo's out the hood is a lot shorter exhaust piping than a 4cyl with the exhaust exiting the back of the motor in which you'd need to rout the exhaust all the way to the front of the car.
here's an open wheel racecar engine with longtube turbo manifold








street cars...








talon








if its not functional its at least menacing to look at


----------



## Navydub (Sep 30, 2006)

*FV-QR*

I understand it on big V8 cars, or on cars where engine bay space is limited. On that talon the turbo IS on the exhaust side of the motor(longitudinal configuration). Still makes no sense to me for a transverse VR


----------



## VRsixGLI (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Navydub)*

Who gives a ****?

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


----------



## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRsixGLI* »_Who gives a ****?

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view












well... if you like the technical side of cars and want to learn how engines work at their most efficient level then you would care. but i guess a debate about engine performance is a bit over your head. maybe I should refer you here - http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=145
this way you can talk about how much better you are than other MK4 owners amongst your peers.


----------



## BlakVRTBeast (Feb 17, 2009)

were are not here to argue ... i was only putting this out there to see if anyone has done it and get some feedback, i see some are against it and some are for it ... yes its different and i plan on running the car at the track with a different hood that will have a scoop going directly into the turbo so it will benefit me for sure and i am aware of the fact that i will have to change some stuff around due to the fact of running the sidewinder over the tranny since we have the brake fluid canister there as well as the overflow bottle but i can def work around that 


_Modified by BlakVRTBeast at 2:22 PM 3-18-2010_


----------



## BlakVRTBeast (Feb 17, 2009)

i will be posting the progress once we get everything started and get the ball rolling and of course i will also post the end result of this as well


----------



## VRsixGLI (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Flipdriver80)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flipdriver80* »_

well... if you like the technical side of cars and want to learn how engines work at their most efficient level then you would care. but i guess a debate about engine performance is a bit over your head. maybe I should refer you here - http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=145
this way you can talk about how much better you are than other MK4 owners amongst your peers.

A debate about engine performance coming from a 2.0 turbo guy?







You need to relax a little bit and not take a forum so seriously. Just because you have 10k posts doesn't mean you own this site.







Maybe someone should refer you to a psychiatrist for your anger problems? 
Anyway... I said who gives a **** meaning how come everyone is so against the idea and bashing it? If he wants to try something "new" I don't see why it is such a bad idea? Sure the gains over a log manifold may be minimal but its worth trying something different. Good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRsixGLI* »_
A debate about engine performance coming from a 2.0 turbo guy?







Maybe someone should refer you to a psychiatrist for your anger problems? 
Anyway... I said who gives a **** meaning how come everyone is so against the idea and bashing it? If he wants to try something "new" I don't see why it is such a bad idea? Sure the gains over a log manifold may be minimal but its worth trying something different. Good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


the cars that i drive or tune have nothing to do with my automotive knowledge








sorry i can't afford to dump gobs of money into a VR6 turbo with a pointless turbo manifold.
my post was not angry at all, just telling it like it is, i guess thats a crime now?
you win bro. R32's are god's chariot i know.


----------



## mcdub (Jun 19, 2005)

2 words.
PULSE TUNING


----------



## mcdub (Jun 19, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (VRsixGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRsixGLI* »_
A debate about engine performance coming from a 2.0 turbo guy?







You need to relax a little bit and not take a forum so seriously. Just because you have 10k posts doesn't mean you own this site.







Maybe someone should refer you to a psychiatrist for your anger problems? 
Anyway... I said who gives a **** meaning how come everyone is so against the idea and bashing it? If he wants to try something "new" I don't see why it is such a bad idea? Sure the gains over a log manifold may be minimal but its worth trying something different. Good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Your such a tool.


----------

