# aba 16vt or 20vt swap into a mkII Gti



## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

well my project gti is to the point ware its time to look into the motor.
i have a G60 in my corrado and thats fine and dandy for that car but turbo is a more economical choice than swaping a G60 in. 
I really love the idea of the aba 16vt but many people say they have put tons of money into that setup and others say they did it for 1000 bux.
money is not a worry i will take my time(project as taken 3 years so far started when i was 16) and do every thing right 
so lets hears people opinions on both motors. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

ultimately a 20v has a higher hp potential. 
*zips up flamesuit* 
just a matter of the head flowing more. Parts are out there for 20vs now there are cams, solid lifter conversions dry sump the sky is the limit. 
The 1.8t is also a more modern design with no intermediate shaft and an integral water pump (not aeb) which is really nice. 
16v head is kinda scarry. 
the flip side of course is 1.8t stuff is a) a lot of it is untested b) like 3x the price.


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## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

true about the 1.8t being more modern and such. and the 16v isnt that scare dude im pretty sure its non interferance on top of a aba . I just need to decide how im going to make more hp to go along with the looks of the car. Small doors, small bumpers, Kamei body kit, Schmidt VN line wheels 16x7.5. im going for the old school with new school power yet im only 18







so the motor is proly going to take me a while but oh well itll be show worth by next water fest well at least the out side ot the engine bay http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

i'm not talking about the motor expoding. 
i'm talking abou the head flowing like ****. 
i have a mk2 20v swap too and i'm 21 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
just know that a big turbo built 1.8t swap costs about 10k. more depending on what parts you use.


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_i'm not talking about the motor expoding. 
i'm talking abou the head flowing like ****. 


WTF are you talking about?







The 16V head flows quite a bit with a decent P&P job and some cams. It also has more cam choices that don't require solid lifters than the 20V head. Of course the 20V head ultimately has more flow potential but that doesn't come for free either.


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## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (Angular)*

yea im defintly leaning towards the aba 16vt because it has proven to hold 450hp on stock internals with a gt35 and .82 a/r. and it seems to be less money in the long run because i can get the 16v internals needed for free and a aba block for 250 and dont have a head yet.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

"WTF are you talking about? The 16V head flows quite a bit with a decent P&P job and some cams." 
yup, you have to modify it because its a ****ty design to start with. Hate to say it, but those exhaust ports suck. The exhaust ports are the ONLY reason the 20v head has more ultimate flow potential. 
20 valve is a big pain in the ass, but i went with it just to get to head design that didn't have a tiny, 90 degree hooked exhaust port. 
thats what i'm talkin about. 

proven to hold 450 hp... ya like once, at over 35psi. 35psi??? from a gt35? can you say... the head is a bottleneck? what do similar displacement motors with the same turob make at that boost? 
600? 
keep in mind they did taht on a totally stock head but still. if you go the 16v way plan on doing major headwork. 20v's can make big power on the stock head, nevermind when you get into porting them and cams and all that fun. 


_Modified by fast_a2_20v at 11:44 PM 8-26-2004_


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

You can call it sh!tty all you want but why don't we just stick to the facts? 
The 16V exhaust ports do have a nasty 90 degree exit path but they are by no means "tiny" as you say. 
Stock 2L 16V exhaust ports flow about 142 CFM compared to about 125 for the 1.8 16V head. Stock 1.8T exhaust ports flow about 170 CFM at full lift but you need aftermarket cams to get there. More like 160 CFM with stock cams at 0.366" lift.
Note: 20V heads are limited to 0.364" lift on intake and 0.432" on exhaust with hydraulic lifters.
For reference, here's a flowbench of a stock 1.8 16V head and a stock large port 20V head.








So are you telling me a ported 16V head won't flow 160 or 170 CFM on the exhaust side?
I don't have flowbench graphs on the exhaust side for a ported 16V head, but I'll see if I can dig some up.
Now here's a smallport 20V head, which only flows 160-ish on intake and exhaust in stock form.








For reference, here are some intake flow bench graphs for a stock AEB large port 20V and a ported 16V head showing almost equal flow.
http://s16v.com/kelly/20V-Flow_15.gif
http://s16v.com/kelly/16V-Flow_12.gif
My point to all this is that a $500 P&P job can enable the 16V head to go a long way, especially on a 2L bottom end, for anyone who doesn't want to take the 1.8T plunge. 
It is a perfectly viable option no matter how "sh!tty" some people say it is.


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## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (Angular)*

thanks for the info i knew that the 20v needs soild lifters for high lift and thats uber $$$ and a sloid lifter 16v can rev to 8 or so look at SNS they rev their 16v with mec. lifters to 7 no problem.
in the long run the 16v looks cheaper and if done right will stick with a 20v with less money.
so looks like solid lifter 2.0 16v head, over sized valves, 7mm stems under cut to 4mm sound like a good plan and i do have a source for the 7mm under cut to 4mm but thatll stay my lil secret till my motor is done.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

ya but the bottom line is, stock for stock the 1.8t head kicks the crap out of the 16v head. 
ported vs ported the 1.8t head still is well ahead. cammed vs cammed its STILL ahead. 
Its just a superior (albiet more complex) head. if money is no object, this head, even with just a hydro cam, is the one to have.


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## euroroccoT (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (Black86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black86GTI* »_yea im defintly leaning towards the aba 16vt because it has proven to hold 450hp on stock internals with a gt35 and .82 a/r. and it seems to be less money in the long run because i can get the 16v internals needed for free and a aba block for 250 and dont have a head yet.

Yeah You can make 450hp with that, but only if you like a 500rpm powerband.
Stick with the 16v, ,i never liked the aba pistons, ring lands are too weak compared to 9A, the stacking the gasket method has been done with over 300whp no problem, ,so that;s what i would do, when you need a turbo that will work for real, email me..


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (euroroccoT)*

Personally I went 16vT because it was cheaper for me to do(already had lots of parts)
I would like a 1.8t BUT they are more expensive 
I would let the flow characteristics of either motor make your decision.
when you get into high performance tuning on both motors...the hp gains will satisfy in hp junky http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_ya but the bottom line is, stock for stock the 1.8t head kicks the crap out of the 16v head. 
ported vs ported the 1.8t head still is well ahead. cammed vs cammed its STILL ahead. 
Its just a superior (albiet more complex) head. if money is no object, this head, even with just a hydro cam, is the one to have. 

The small port 1.8T head which is the most common doesn't "kick the crap out" of the 2L 16V head but it does flow better on the exhaust side, stock for stock. The large port 1.8T head certainly requires you to port and polish your 16V head to stay in the game. But the point is you can still stay in the game with a 16V head if you so choose.
I'm not arm twisting anyone into going 16V. I really don't care as long as people are happy with their choice.
I would like to point out that my 2L 16V makes more power per PSI of boost ([email protected]) than my friend's 1.8T ([email protected]) with the large port AEB head, thanks in part 11% more displacement, a good P&P job and a set of TT cams.
If money were no object and I was "going for the gold", sure... I'd get a 1.8T large port head, higher lift cams, and build a 2 liter bottom end for it with forged internals.


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## TAI-VW boosted Dubs (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: (Angular)*

I am running a ABA+16V head setup,and at 23 psi I am making the same hp,if not more,than 1.8T guys with the same turbo and boost......I think the extra 200cc's helps,and I got the head for FREE!







I don't see to many free 1.8T heads floating about..


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## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (TAI-VW boosted Dubs)*

Just to add fuel to the fire... 
Are there any 1.8T engined cars running 9s at 140+mph? I know of one particular aba 16V-T running that #. Far from a stock motor, and a very light chassis, but 9's nonetheless.







.
They're both really nice designs, but a 16V was more easily integrated into my Corrado with Digi-1 with the distributor already in place with a 4 window Hall sender. I've got the 1.8L head, which had the absolute worse exhaust ports, but took it upon myself (and my die-grinder and dremel) to remedy that situation in my garage. Cleaned up the intake ports while I was at it, too. I do have a 20V timing belt turning the cams in my motor, though







.
Bottom line is either design will make more power and rev higher than the previous resident (usually 8V) of the engine bay







. I guess it's just fun to have a pissing contest, heheh.


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## ALpHaMoNk_VW (Mar 26, 2001)

*Re: (jwatts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwatts* »_ 9s at 140+mph? I know of one particular aba 16V-T running that #. Far from a stock motor, and a very light chassis, but 9's nonetheless.







.


one of the main reasons i am going ABA16vT on my bunny







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## turbo_tom80 (May 6, 2003)

*Re: (Angular)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Angular* »_
I would like to point out that my 2L 16V makes more power per PSI of boost ([email protected]) than my friend's 1.8T ([email protected]) with the large port AEB head, thanks in part 11% more displacement, a good P&P job and a set of TT cams.


I'd like to point out that stock MKIII VR6's were also dynoing 180whp on the day you were there, i'd like to call BS on that statement you dont even have to show me the dyno, because i would bet with certainty the correction factors were being altered.....


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## turbo_tom80 (May 6, 2003)

*Re: (jwatts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwatts* »_Just to add fuel to the fire... 
Are there any 1.8T engined cars running 9s at 140+mph? I know of one particular aba 16V-T running that #. Far from a stock motor, and a very light chassis, but 9's nonetheless.







.
They're both really nice designs, but a 16V was more easily integrated into my Corrado with Digi-1 with the distributor already in place with a 4 window Hall sender. I've got the 1.8L head, which had the absolute worse exhaust ports, but took it upon myself (and my die-grinder and dremel) to remedy that situation in my garage. Cleaned up the intake ports while I was at it, too. I do have a 20V timing belt turning the cams in my motor, though







.
Bottom line is either design will make more power and rev higher than the previous resident (usually 8V) of the engine bay







. I guess it's just fun to have a pissing contest, heheh.

Lugnuts doesnt count







the scirocco 1 is one of the lightest if not the lightest VW chasis, and thats a full drag car, its like comparing apples to oranges, this guy doesnt want a 9second car, if you want to make wild comparisons why not compare Nate's 20V na corrado that runs 10s, imagine that with a turbo


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## turbo_tom80 (May 6, 2003)

*Re: (turbo_tom80)*

The main reason i'm using a 2.016V for my drag bunny project is that its cheap, has more displacement to flow my T3/T04S and it needs the 1.8T T-belt to work (ABA bottom end from 94 with oil squirters







)
Either way mine is ported. Good luck with the project, it will move nicely either way.


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## euroroccoT (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (turbo_tom80)*

There are more 16vT ruinning 10s than 1.8T this is mostly do to the fact that 16v parts are everywhere and cheaper. I was not a real fan of the 5 valve head simply because the valves are so close togheter, that it created hot spots, and in the head breakage. There was even and article on that. but to each theyre own, has long has we keep putting turbos on VW thats what counts..


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

"I would like to point out that my 2L 16V makes more power per PSI of boost ([email protected]) than my friend's 1.8T ([email protected]) with the large port AEB head, thanks in part 11% more displacement, a good P&P job and a set of TT cams." 

not to argue but, that statement doesn't really mean a thing. Its totally dependant on both of your setups and tunes. You both weren't running the same turbos, intercoolers, etc etc. 
the hot big $ setup right now as far as i can tell is a aba 20v aeb head. mine is an awp block / aeb head with a AEG 2.0 crank but eventually i'm going to go backwards a bit to a aba block / long rods setup.


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## 155VERT83 (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: aba 16vt or 20vt swap into a mkII Gti (Black86GTI)*

If money is not a major factor, go with the 1.8t, otherwise go with the 16vt.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

actualy another varient that is little discussed but a good setup... 
and medium in price, at least for a start. get a 93-95 aba block. AEB 20v head. block 2 of the oil return passenges.


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## fshowcarz (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_
*the hot big* $ setup right now as far as i can tell is a aba 20v aeb head. mine is an awp block / aeb head with a AEG 2.0 crank but eventually i'm going to go backwards a bit to a aba block / long rods setup. 

so you're admitting you're bandwagon??? interesting.
you need to stop praising the engine you are building... i own both, the 16vt is MUCH better in respect to tuning / racing... i mean for christ's sake... DBW drag racer







not to mention the fact that the 20v is obdii... many states will hammer you with emissions (no sds) ... but if it's a swap, then it can be logical, if you remove the DBW parts... remove the **** OEM coilpacks and basically mix and match until you get it to basically a 16v. 
the 20v head is garbage...


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: (fshowcarz)*

Sounds like someone's been sitting in Sailor's garage for a while......


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Andrew Stauffer)*

The 16v head has been proven that it can make plenty of power. Its cheap and easily found. 
The 20v head (big port) is harder to find, expensive, limited to cams on hydro lifters. It will make more power when done right but for the average person. I think the 16v head is a better choice. Just because its cheaper and can make the power most people want. If the guy wanted to build a motor that made the most hp I would suggest 20v. But he doesnt so I suggest 16v. 

In the end, Im just gonna stick a B18C5 (USDM Type R motor for those who dont know) into my bunny and boost that. Talk about heads that flow.


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_not to argue but, that statement doesn't really mean a thing. Its totally dependant on both of your setups and tunes. You both weren't running the same turbos, intercoolers, etc etc. 


That's a fair point. But I can tell you I have a much smaller intercooler than he does. This isn't to say it flows any worse, but it will heat soak much faster. My GT30R is bigger/better than his GT25R hybrid but I still did 218 WHP on 8 PSI (250 whp at 10 PSI depending which dyno you believe) even with the old T3 and .48 AR turbine housing. 
I'll let people draw their own conclusions.








ABA 2L w/20V head would be awesome. I'd probably do that too if I were to start over again. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## The A1 and A2 German (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (Angular)*

Skips over posts......a 2.0 16v w/give a 20v a run for the money, and that's w/o a turbo. 16Vt's are considered scary, scary fast, a little out of hand. On the other hand Dubbers are throwing a just a T3/T4,chip and injectoers on a 20v getting these 400#'s on stock internals. 
In a nut shell, I would ONLY COMPAIR these 2 against this fact..........
Buy a 20vt, and bolt w/you must on, qoute, " Bolt everything on."
Buy a 2.0 16v, spend every countless hour fabricating, building, machine shop budy hook up, September-March knuckle bleeding minute producing this beast. 
.........................................................................................

20v's are going to be breaking large ground as the threshold of producing and testing parts is about to bust and be avaiable. 
Hmmmm...................20vt, 16vt.................I like the apeal of having a new motor designed for boost w/a bunch on bolt on goodies, then I like the apeal of seeing that one of a kind custom 16vt.








16vt runs through me head. Dub-On!


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

"so you're admitting you're bandwagon??? interesting.
you need to stop praising the engine you are building... i own both, the 16vt is MUCH better in respect to tuning / racing... i mean for christ's sake... DBW drag racer not to mention the fact that the 20v is obdii... many states will hammer you with emissions (no sds) ... but if it's a swap, then it can be logical, if you remove the DBW parts... remove the **** OEM coilpacks and basically mix and match until you get it to basically a 16v. 
the 20v head is garbage..." 
MY CAR IS A FREAKKING MK2!!! i'm running standalone and msd blaster coils. you should bakc the f off unless you knew SOMETHING about my project. i run a freakin 2 step for christs sake. 
"OEM coilpacks and basically mix and match until you get it to basically a 16v. " 
ya, exactly... a 16v with a higher flowing head and no distributor... thats the idea here champ, higher flow. higher flow = more hp and less heat. 
any way you cut it an aeb head is downright superior to the 16v head. And don't give me "there hard to find" there are dozens for sale if you look. 
so frankly i think you should **** with criticizing my setup unless you wanna post up some pics of yours. so what if i'm proud of it? you think its easy for a college student to scrap up 10 grand for a project like this? frankly, i have a damn right to be proud of it, and the fabrication work i have done on it.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

"In the end, Im just gonna stick a B18C5 (USDM Type R motor for those who dont know) into my bunny and boost that. Talk about heads that flow." 
lol... thats interesting dood i was talkin to my buddy the other day. If this motor of mine doesn't make 500+ whp when its all put togheter, i'm gonna sell it all off and put a built, sleeved ecotec in there. but i was like mannnnn i'll catch a lot of **** from the vw guys for butting a chevy engine into a 16v lol. at least i'm not the only one. 
more or less i'm craving a transmission that won't go hand grenade on me every other pass


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_more or less i'm craving a transmission that won't go hand grenade on me every other pass

You tried the 02M yet?


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: (Angular)*

I know a few guys with 16v making over 400hp daily driven. they just aren't on vortex


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

angular--- no... if / when this 02a blows up i might try to find one... my buddy told me they are by far theeee strongest gearbox vag has built so far. 
*after he rebuilt one*


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## wootwoot (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

how much power do you want?? why not take the g60block, with the cross flow aba head? if your only looking for like 250whp, then that would be perfectly fine. it will be the cheapest and i see it being more reliable than the 16vt since it was atleast somewhat designed for boost. a gt3071, 550cc injectors, cast manifold, log intake manifold,etc.... 
just my thoughts. i mean, how much whp is worth having in an mkII anyway?


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

If you guys are big dogs for real then i want to see a 16V head or any VW head for that matter with a hemispherical chamber.Now that would be bad a$$ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 87GolfKart (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: (Bad Habit)*

Money spent on a 20V can go to doing mad port and cam works on 16v.


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## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (wootwoot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wootwoot* »_how much power do you want?? why not take the g60block, with the cross flow aba head? if your only looking for like 250whp, then that would be perfectly fine. it will be the cheapest and i see it being more reliable than the 16vt since it was atleast somewhat designed for boost. a gt3071, 550cc injectors, cast manifold, log intake manifold,etc.... 
just my thoughts. i mean, how much whp is worth having in an mkII anyway? 


shooting for around 400whp and 10 sec passes


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## rbr20 (Jul 28, 2001)

*Re: (Black86GTI)*

400+ WHP is a pain. Took Dave of STM's 437WHP 86 1.8L 20v street Golf out last night. Track was cold temps in the low 50's all we could get was a [email protected] low boost Never went below a 2.0 60' Were very happy with the power the engine is making but we need some tuning in the suspension dept.Car is setup for autox. 
The engine was pulled from a wrecked 2001 Jetta. 
Mods are;
SDS
T3/T4
FMIC
3" Exhaust system


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## Hybrid VW (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: (Angular)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Angular* »_
That's a fair point. But I can tell you I have a much smaller intercooler than he does. This isn't to say it flows any worse, but it will heat soak much faster. My GT30R is bigger/better than his GT25R hybrid but I still did 218 WHP on 8 PSI (250 whp at 10 PSI depending which dyno you believe) even with the old T3 and .48 AR turbine housing. 
I'll let people draw their own conclusions.










Well, lets look at the rest of the picture







I seem to remember your most recent (I think) dyno chart showing a nice, flat 200ish wtq to go with ~270 whp. I forget what boost level it was at, but there's no doubt you've built an efficient 16V.
To which I say: 268wtq @ 3400 rpm







Oh yeah, I'm not geared down with some silly long ratio tranny either!








For everyone else, something to consider when comparing the flow numbers is that people always look at the peak numbers. the cam only hits the peak ONCE during it's revolution, but hits every other lift twice (except zero), so go back and look at those charts again, and compare even the small port 20V to the 1.8 16V and ask your self which one is going to make more power (everything else being equal). Both engines can make ample power, you just need to lay out your plan and research everything you're going to need to do, buy, and fabricate to get you to your goal. I say if you don't want to crack the engine open, go with the AEB 1.8T, if you're not worried about opening up the engine and playing Mr. Potato Head, do whatever you want http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (Hybrid VW)*

its looking like i can get a PG long block from a guy for really cheap so i might just have to throw a xflow 8v head on that and build a = length turbo mani and shorty intake and see what i can do id like to see close to 300 whp so i may look into a 16v head ontop of a pg block its been done with great results so we will see how the deal plays out just gotta find a place to put the motor in my apartment ware people cant see it http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (Hybrid VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hybrid VW* »_
To which I say: 268wtq @ 3400 rpm







Oh yeah, I'm not geared down with some silly long ratio tranny either!










Geez, took you like 3 weeks to to respond to that post.







Now tell everyone how much boost you're running to get that wonderful torque.







I bet with the .48 AR turbine housing and some 17 PSI of boost, I could meet or beat that torque figure at 3400 RPM.


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## Hybrid VW (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: (Angular)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Angular* »_
Geez, took you like 3 weeks to to respond to that post.







Now tell everyone how much boost you're running to get that wonderful torque.







I bet with the .48 AR turbine housing and some 17 PSI of boost, I could meet or beat that torque figure at 3400 RPM.









Took me 3 weeks because I knew I'd get drug in to another Vortex sh_t storm








I'm sure there's some combination out there that would get you that number. As they say: "put up or........."
Oh yeah, 109 mph traps


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (Hybrid VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hybrid VW* »_
I'm sure there's some combination out there that would get you that number. As they say: "put up or........."


I'm talking about the combination I am running right now. Just name the time and place, punk, and we'll settle this ONCE AND FOR ALL.









_Quote, originally posted by *Hybrid VW* »_
Oh yeah, 109 mph traps









Pfffttt...







I'm sure 17+ PSI and the close ratio 6 $peed tranny helps... along with those Azenis Sport tires. But you better be careful throwing around 1/4 mile times/traps 'cause the vortex genius pool will be quick to tell you how you oughta be in the 12's with your 270+whp.










_Modified by Angular at 11:59 AM 9-20-2004_


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## Hybrid VW (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: (Angular)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Angular* »_
Pfffttt...







I'm sure 17+ PSI and the close ratio 6 $peed tranny helps... along with those Azenis Sport tires. But you better be careful throwing around 1/4 mile times/traps 'cause the vortex genius pool will be quick to tell you how you oughta be in the 12's with your 270+whp.










I SHOULD be in the 12's if I cared enough to put slicks on the car







Are you implying my 205's have an advantage over your 215's?








Whatever man







I've got Clydesdales under my hood and you have Shetland Pony's


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

lol! too bad falken azenis suck at the 1/4mile. 
and FWIW the "close ratio 6spd" isn't really any closer then the 5, the 6th gear is way the hell off in no mands land. Its great, if you want to go 200mph.


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_lol! too bad falken azenis suck at the 1/4mile. 


Yeah, just like 16V heads are garbage.







They're not drag slicks but they are a lot better than MOST street tires.

_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_
and FWIW the "close ratio 6spd" isn't really any closer then the 5, the 6th gear is way the hell off in no mands land. Its great, if you want to go 200mph.

Closer ratio than my TDI gearbox. I don't know the particulars of the 02M but 6th gear in my S4 sure isn't in "no man's land". I wish it were taller for cruising but that's not what its intended function is.


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