# P0012, P0340, and random cylinder misfire constantly busting my balls.



## GLIIII (Apr 28, 2011)

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Currently, I've got the engine codes P0340 Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Malfunction
and P0012 Camshaft Position Actuator A-Bank 1 Timing over Retard.

Previously, I had random multiple cylinder misfire codes on top of these^.

I've had a misfire in my GLI for a few months now and I cant seem to pinpoint it. It wasn't very bad at all at first, then it slowly got worse over time, and now its back to being subtle with the new tensioner. I only ever notice it at an idle and the car has full power. After researching, I found that I thought it was the Camshaft Position Sensor. I replaced the sensor and CEL came right back on after a test drive, so I returned it. After more digging, I found that it may be the Camshaft Chain Tensioner. So, I did the whole replacement of the tensioner, and it is still missing. So, I tried that camshaft position sensor again with the new tensioner, and that just seemed to make it worse:screwy:.

I'm running out of options. Could this be caused by a vacuum leak or something?:sly: Or possibly the circuit being falsely grounded somewhere? What all would I need to replace if I wanted to replace the wires that control the Camshaft Position Sensor?

Car mods: Forge turbo inlet pipe, Forge DV, Full 3" TB exhaust with o2 fix, K04-001, Short ram intake
Parts replaced chasing this sob: 3 coil packs, Camshaft chain tensioner, Camshaft position sensor attempt

Please hellllpppp.:thumbup:


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Check the engine timing, I'm betting you're a tooth retarded.

Also, http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16684/P0300/000768


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## GLIIII (Apr 28, 2011)

99.99999% sure the engine timing is dead on. Recently put a new VW timing belt on cause the crappy one that came with my water pump kit cracked. I thought that may be it also, so I checked the timing belt pulley marks and even took the valve cover off and re-checked the timing chain marks(this was at the same time that I replaced the timing chain tensioner). Everything seems to be dead on.


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## suffocatemymind (Dec 10, 2007)

GLIIII said:


> 99.99999% sure the engine timing is dead on.


I recently did my timing belt and got a code for the camshaft position sensor and another for being overadvanced (even though I was 99.99999% sure it was timed properly). I found that I was off 1 tooth (the belt must have slipped before adding tension) when retiming the engine and I haven't had those codes since!


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## GLIIII (Apr 28, 2011)

Well, I checked mine forward and back again. My brother and I both double checked every mark for the belt and timing chain under the valve cover and we both agreed that it was on(he's a certified mechanic, but not vw wise. haha).

Also, my code isn't necessarily directly for the camshaft position sensor, It reads circuit malfunction.
After searching this online, I have found a few things to say that it could be the wiring leading up to the sensor, but I'm not really sure how to check that or what could cause it to malfunction.

Sorry, I'm not trying to shoot your response down if it seems that way. Thank you for your help!

Anyone else have any input?


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## palmasi1 (May 21, 2001)

GLIIII said:


> Well, I checked mine forward and back again. My brother and I both double checked every mark for the belt and timing chain under the valve cover and we both agreed that it was on(he's a certified mechanic, but not vw wise. haha).
> 
> Also, my code isn't necessarily directly for the camshaft position sensor, It reads circuit malfunction.
> After searching this online, I have found a few things to say that it could be the wiring leading up to the sensor, but I'm not really sure how to check that or what could cause it to malfunction.
> ...



I assume you checked the flywheel timing mark as well right? And the mark on the cams was even with or up to 1 tooth advanced relative to the flywheel mark? 

I just did my belt and was one tooth retarded as well. Sucked. I didn't check the flywheel mark.


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## GLIIII (Apr 28, 2011)

Ya we did. To both of our knowledge, it's perfectly in time. We compared it to like 3 different timing diagrams. Also, my car only misses sometimes. Sometimes I will start it up and it will idle perfectly, then the next time I start it, it will be missing. Timing being off a tooth would do it every time the car is turned on/idling right? What CEL codes did you get when it was 1 tooth out of time?


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## jbutlertelecom (Aug 12, 2009)

GLIIII said:


> Ya we did. To both of our knowledge, it's perfectly in time. We compared it to like 3 different timing diagrams. Also, my car only misses sometimes. Sometimes I will start it up and it will idle perfectly, then the next time I start it, it will be missing. Timing being off a tooth would do it every time the car is turned on/idling right? What CEL codes did you get when it was 1 tooth out of time?


Your cams are out of time... You can deny it all you want but it is the truth... your intake cam had to come out when you replaced the CCT and when you put it back together it was/is out of time. That is what the sensor is saying...That is what it is... 

The exhaust cam has a mark, when you put the motor to TDC on #1 and the cam timing gear for the belt lines up with the mark on the valve cover and the mark on the timing belt cover lines up with the notch in the crank harmonic balancer, the chain side of the exhaust cam has a little mark that should be just to the LEFT of the mark on the cam cap... then 16 rollers to the other cam mark (intake cam) should be EXACTLY lined up with the mark on the cam cap... 

take a picture of this and post it up and we will VERIFY whether or not your motor is timed correctly or not, expert brother mechanic or not VW/AUDI is a special breed...


should look like this
http://www.80tq.com/~wiz/gallery2/d/1575-2/003.gif


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## GLIIII (Apr 28, 2011)

I know what it is supposed to look like when the camshafts are in time. We used that exact diagram as one of our comparisons and it looks identical, chief.

I believe you're thinking of a similar code which if I remember correctly is the p1340 code that points directly at the timing in correlation with the sensor

if you search the P0340 code online, you get this as a response...

A code P0340 could mean one or more of the following has happened:
a wire or connector in the circuit could be grounded/shorted/broken
the camshaft position sensor may have failed
the PCM may have failed
there exists an open circuit
the crankshaft position sensor may have failed

:wave:


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## jbutlertelecom (Aug 12, 2009)

GLIIII said:


> I know what it is supposed to look like when the camshafts are in time. We used that exact diagram as one of our comparisons and it looks identical, chief.
> 
> I believe you're thinking of a similar code which if I remember correctly is the p1340 code that points directly at the timing in correlation with the sensor
> 
> ...


Hey genius I was referring to the OTHER code... P012:

16396/P0012/000018 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Advance Setpoint not Reached (Over-Retarded)

Possible Symptoms
Erratic Idle
Possible Causes
Intake Camshaft Adjuster tight/stuck
Intake Camshaft Adjuster faulty
Possible Solutions
Check Intake Camshaft Adjuster
Use Output Test, Meas. Value Blocks (MVB) & Basic Setting

Like I said, take a picture of the area or else you are just guessing whether ir not it was properly put back together again... I'm pretty sure you didn't... as in, 99.9999999999999% sure...
My bet is that there is NOT 16 links between cam marks.... probably 15 links.. Hence over-retarded, which will cause misfires...


This is from YOUR mouth, not anyone else's...
"I've had a misfire in my GLI for a few months now and I cant seem to pinpoint it. It wasn't very bad at all at first, then it slowly got worse over time, and now its back to being subtle with the new tensioner. I only ever notice it at an idle and the car has full power. After researching, I found that I thought it was the Camshaft Position Sensor. I replaced the sensor and CEL came right back on after a test drive, so I returned it. After more digging, I found that it may be the Camshaft Chain Tensioner. So, I did the whole replacement of the tensioner, and it is still missing. So, I tried that camshaft position sensor again with the new tensioner, and that just seemed to make it worse."


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## suffocatemymind (Dec 10, 2007)

I don't know about anyone else, but the timing mark was a pain to find at first...looked like a little piece of dirt or a scratch haha NOT an arrow! Good luck man, you'll get it.


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## GLIIII (Apr 28, 2011)

jbutlertelecom, I'm not looking for someone to come in here and tell me I'm dumb. I counted 16 links forward, back, forward, and back again. Then my brother counted the same thing forward and back again. The links were clearly marked with silver sharpie from 1-16 rollers. We are competent. In fact, he is well over competent. The car is in time. I'm just looking for a solution/someone who has had experience with possible wiring failures.

Possible Causes
Intake Camshaft Adjuster tight/stuck
Intake Camshaft Adjuster faulty

This could very easily be caused by faulty wiring to the sensor causing the sensor to fail.

Does anyone else have any real help for me?

Thank you.:thumbup::banghead:


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## jbutlertelecom (Aug 12, 2009)

GLIIII said:


> jbutlertelecom, I'm not looking for someone to come in here and tell me I'm dumb. I counted 16 links forward, back, forward, and back again. Then my brother counted the same thing forward and back again. The links were clearly marked with silver sharpie from 1-16 rollers. We are competent. In fact, he is well over competent. The car is in time. I'm just looking for a solution/someone who has had experience with possible wiring failures.
> 
> Possible Causes
> Intake Camshaft Adjuster tight/stuck
> ...


I am NOT trying to insinuate YOU or your BROTHER are "dumb" or anything of that nature, stubborn maybe... Listen, the fact that your ECU is recording a DTC from the suspected SENSORS tells me the wiring is good (could be an intermittent connection) but the DTC CLEARLY does not come up as a short or intermittent... the code SPECIFICALLY says that your INTAKE CAM IS OVER-RETARDED. The CAMSHAFT SENSOR DETECTS TIMING OF THE INTAKE CAM and the CCT Detects/sets cam advance (overlap) during STARTUP ONLY (VVT). BOTH SENSORS ARE DOING THEIR JOB, they are both reporting an issue to the ECU!
It's not just 16 rollers between wherever you pick from the Exhaust Cam, the picture i referenced is deceiving because it looks like the EXHAUST CAM is lined up to the mark, it should not be, it should be to the LEFT of the mark on the CAM CAP. then count 16 rollers... the INTAKE CAM should line up PERFECTLY with the CAM CAP. Look, all I am asking is for a picture of the marks when the engine is @ TDC. How are you going to argue with that? Someone who is knowledgable on the matter IS TRYING TO HELP YOU OUT and all you can do is argue? You can do better than that, surely!

Good luck with your problem...
BTW, here are your codes:
16396/P0012/000018 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Advance Setpoint not Reached (Over-Retarded)

Possible Symptoms
Erratic Idle
Possible Causes
Intake Camshaft Adjuster tight/stuck
Intake Camshaft Adjuster faulty
Possible Solutions
Check Intake Camshaft Adjuster
Use Output Test, Meas. Value Blocks (MVB) & Basic Setting

16724/P0340 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Malfunction

Possible Symptoms
Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) active
Possible Causes
Wiring from/to Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) faulty
Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) faulty
Timing misaligned
Possible Solutions
Check Wiring from/to Camshaft Position Sensor (G40)
Check Camshaft Position Sensor (G40)
Check Timing

See anything that matches both of them?
They both mention an issue with your timing, SPECIFICALLY that it is OVER_RETARDED. THE ONLY thing that could cause that is a misalignment of the INTAKE CAM during reassembly...


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## GLIIII (Apr 28, 2011)

I will take a picture of the camshafts at TDC this weekend and post it for you, however I know that the 1st roller is supposed to be slightly to the left of the mark on the exhaust cam(half a link), and then the intake camshaft matches the mark just like you stated at the 16th roller.

We have it exactly like this. Everything that is being stated is exactly what we have.

Thanks for trying to help.


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## GLIIII (Apr 28, 2011)

In the meantime, can anyone else help to lead me down the path of checking the cam sensor wiring for malfunctions?

Appreciate it.


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## GLIIII (Apr 28, 2011)

Anyone? 

thanks.:wave:


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## 87vr6 (Jan 17, 2002)

jbutlertelecom said:


> Listen, the fact that your ECU is recording a DTC from the suspected SENSORS tells me the wiring is good (could be an intermittent connection) but the DTC CLEARLY does not come up as a short or intermittent... the code SPECIFICALLY says that your INTAKE CAM IS OVER-RETARDED.



As you typed, possible causes:
Wiring from/to Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) faulty

If the wiring to my drivers front wheel speed sensor gets cut, then I get a code for that wheel speed sensor? Is it broke? No, the wiring is... Actually this just happened to me 2 weeks ago..

If his timing is off, how come mine isn't:

His:








Mine:









Where we started our count out is slightly different, but there's still 16 and my is running 100%...


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## Stevebilt (Jul 30, 2010)

Looking at the pic, the exhaust cam looks like the cam groove lines up with "2". Maybe it's just the pic but I'd double check that. 

I'd check for a broken/pinched wire. If all else fails just get a few lengths of wire, lay them over the engine bay and splice in the 3 wires to your cam sensor directly to the corresponding pins at the ECU.


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## GLIIII (Apr 28, 2011)

Thank you, 87vr6! Do you know how to go about fully testing the wiring to the sensor?


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## jbutlertelecom (Aug 12, 2009)

Go have a look at what I posted in your other thread. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5484872-Calling-all-timing-gurus
I hope we can all put this to rest finally.
Good luck and thanks for being a good sport


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