# Golf 2.5T Project



## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Golf MK6 2.5T Project*

This thread is devoted to converting my Golf MK6 naturally Aspirated to Turbocharged. This is my 1st Vortex thread, and I figure it'll be somewhat of a diary (to start), but I'm also looking for conversations. I have a lot to learn and appreciate anyone with wisdom or well-intended opinions.
Please be civil.

...

Little background:

Fall 2011 - Bought used 2010 Golf MK6, and installed a Carbonio CAI, AWE Catback, and a few other small mods. Love the way the car sounds and pulls. No dyno. Had a tune from Speed Tuning in MD - waste of money.

Jan 2012 - Visited C2 in KY, drove the bunny, and spent a lot of time w/ Chris Collier. 1) The car was a monster! It was also beautiful. 2) Chris is the bomb. Very, very smart. Does amazing engineering work. He is very patient and an apt teacher. Would do business w/ him blind.

Feb 2012 - Moved East and found AP Tuning in PA. They sold / installed HEP SRI & UM Tune. Brought car and did the work. Took 4 days! (First MK6 & funky ECU...) But the craftsmanship at the APT crew is tops! They do serious work, are passionate, charge very fair rates. Dyno pull @ 180 / 165. Pulls strong and steady, and sounds like Frankenstein in a cave. Love that SRI.

June 2012 - Dropped my car off @ APT for a BW Turbo / UM Tune. Car's been there 3 weeks this Sat. Can't wait to see / drive it again.

...

Here's the setup on the install:

Bluewater Performance T3 Manifold: In-house / Made from Sch. 40 steel
V-Band equipped
Turbocharger: Precision T3 (was not given model #)
Turbo Intake Piping: 2 – 2.5” Stainless (medical grade)
Side Mount Intercooler (SMIC): BW SMIC / Treadstone Core. 
Includes all necessary piping: 
Tial 38mm Wastegate: Tial Sport F38 Wastegate (recirculated to DP)
Wastegate set to 10 psi 
No Boost Controller *
Bosch 550cc High-Impedance Injectors
Forge 007 Diverter Valve

* I don't need a boost controller because, even if I could, I do not want to run more boost (yeah, you read that right). The 2.5 engine is supposedly OK to 300 wHP (according to: Blue Water, United Motorsports, AP Tuning, and Integrated Engineering). As you'll read later, power is only one part of the larger picture / objective.

In addition to the turbo installation and tuning, we added a Blue Water Oil Cooler kit and gauges (pods) for Boost, Oil Pressure, and Oil Temperature. We also added a Treadstone turbo blanket ** and heat wrap for DP to mitigate heat contagion to the engine bay and filtering into intake temps.

** Yes, I did a lot of research on the pros & cons of any turbo heat reducing equipment. The final logic was that reducing ambient charger heat was better for all other components (including the compressor) including oil. Speaking of oil, this blanket is designed to reduce central oil temps between the turbine and compressor. The only risk is coking (cooking) the oil in the turbine housing. But if the turbo is cooled down properly and not driven w/ insanity, it should be OK. (Hope the gauge reads oil temp relative to turbo area.) Worst case... I simply take the blanket off (when it's cool).

There are other mods we're doing such as upgrading the brakes to cross-drilled & slotted rotors, better pads, and SS lines. (I'm also having a large hole drilled out near the pedals in case I have to stop the car w/ my feet.)

Lastly, we're upgrading some bushings to try and firm the car up under heavy acceleration. 

…

That's it for openers.

Peace. 

-Chris


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## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

Cool :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

rule #1: pics for clicks!!


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

thygreyt said:


> rule #1: pics for clicks!!


This.


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*SRI Pics*

Seeing that my car will be on the operating table another 2 weeks, here are pics of the SRI work 
done on it back in Feb 2012 @ APTuning.

Golf MK6 2.5 SRI Install & Dyno

BTW - Those wheels are not mine; they're off a track car. APT put them on to run the dyno since
I had snow tires on my rims.

Meanwhile, I expect Tom @ APT will be posting pics on their facebook site when the project 
is complete.


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Update / Status*

What was a three (3) week effort is no more... :facepalm: 

It's now been six (6) weeks, and we're definitely going to week seven (7). This is far, far 
longer than planned. My patience is normally high, but this is wearing it thin. 

We hit hardware issues where the down pipe didn't fit and had to be machined, which added 
about 1 1/2 weeks. Since we were delayed I threw in some more bolt-ons. 

For a full week now, the ECU doesn't want to cooperate. I'm waiting til next week until I 
see this as a serious roadblock. Then we have to find a backup plan..., but ~ 

It's not like w/ the SRI where you just pull it off. We're talking about $4,000 + in turbo 
hardware (alone), so how do you back that out? 

Granted, if successful, this is likely the FIRST MK6 2.5T in the world. So you have to expect 
some bumps. But I get nervous when software is the issue (I'm a software engineer, 20 yrs). 

Even if this goes bust, I have to give three thumbs up to APTuning staff. They always do superior work: 

:thumbup: Tom 
:thumbup: Dave 
:thumbup: Ryan 

I'll post again soon come success OR failure. Let's hope it's the former. 

Peace. 

-Chris


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## chinapie2 (Mar 11, 2011)

I have the first MK6 2.5T

:beer:


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Congrats!*

I just read that an hour ago. 

It sounds like you LOVE your "new" Golf, and that is so awesome. 

Your comment about "being patient w/ C2" makes a lot of sense, since we are trailblazers into uncharted territory. It's both nerve-racking and exciting. 

My goal has been to create what I call "civilized power." Sort of like the part Golf, part Audi RS. 

So how long have you been T'd and do you still spend 12 hours at a shot driving around???


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## Justin14 (Jan 8, 2012)

Wow big project. Not sure if you're in Louisville currently, but I live 10 minutes from C2. Let me 
Know if you want some spy pics of the car lol. 

I hear they're good guys. I'm thinking about getting my golf flashed. 

Anyway good luck


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

Justin14 said:


> Wow big project. Not sure if you're in Louisville currently, but I live 10 minutes from C2. Let me
> Know if you want some spy pics of the car lol.
> 
> I hear they're good guys. I'm thinking about getting my golf flashed.
> ...


 he's not having C2 build it....... cars in pa(not here) 

best of luck with it, hope all turns out well....:beer:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

he is using a Blue Water performance kit.. its the t3 version, which is similar to a C2 kit 

tuned by united motorsports.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

sounds like it could be a lot of fun! I wish I could drop the $ to do the same. Good luck! Can't wait to see the result!:thumbup:


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Update 8/16/2012*

This nearly concludes week seven (7) on a project estimated at two (2).

We have the turbo file loaded on the ECU as of EOB Wednesday 8/15. This effort alone has been a 2-week endeavor. The solution required obtaining an ECU from a dealer for the stock file, cracking the ECU, and getting the file loaded. 

As of 4:00 PM today, the car starts & runs, but has not been driven. It's been heat and leak tested. No dyno. Tomorrow should be the first test run. 

Tuning will not begin until this weekend or early next week. I expect the car will be done, Done, and DONE by Tuesday 8/21, Wednesday at the latest.

I am planning on picking up the car next weekend, 8/25. That will be eight (8) weeks to the day I dropped it off. That's 4x.

Next week is it. Will post again then – come hell or high water.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

UM Tuned MK6 2.5T =


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

Runs more than ~3psi boost. 

-Jeffrey Atwood


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

just saw a video of this... tis quick


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Done*

As you can read, the car is done. Aside from a tweak on the psi, dyno, tweak, etc., it's done.

So I'll be picking up this Friday early AM. Eager to drive it, feel it, hear it.

Will post impressions within the week. Pics & videos soon thereafter.

As this is the 8th week, my expectations have become damped. Also, I'm wondering
how insane I am to have spent an insane sum. Hopefully, the car will deliver even more
fun than it ever did before. We'll soon see...


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

OldPhart said:


> As you can read, the car is done. Aside from a tweak on the psi, dyno, tweak, etc., it's done.
> 
> So I'll be picking up this Friday early AM. Eager to drive it, feel it, hear it.
> 
> ...


lol. you will be positively impressed... you'd have to be dead to not enjoy it more.

more fun? thats a given...


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Just watched the video on APTuning's Facebook. 
The tires don't last a chance past 5,000 rpm! Ask me how I know.. 

The video description said 12psi - stock compression?
Good work guys, it's always nice to see another 2.5T on the road.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Just watched the video on APTuning's Facebook.
> The tires don't last a chance past 5,000 rpm! Ask me how I know..
> 
> The video description said 12psi - stock compression?
> Good work guys, it's always nice to see another 2.5T on the road.


Customer has other wheels and tires for the car so should get some better grip then whats current. Also he doesnt plan on daily running it this amount of power. He wants it more mellow and balanced, we are simply showing what it is capable of if he chooses to turn up the boost. 

We are now at 14psi on stock compression with zero timing pull.


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

this dyno makes me jealous.
comparison of prior NA set to 14 psi boost
 i need me some boost


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

chinapie2 said:


> I have the first MK6 2.5T
> 
> :beer:


Dyno sheet?

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

thygreyt said:


> Dyno sheet?
> 
> Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


I think his was running a couple weeks ago, but only a couple psi as its an auto. I think he was planning a manual swap


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> ... We are now at 14psi on stock compression with zero timing pull.


I'd be weary of running this on a daily (I know the customer isn't), but I applaud nonetheless. Very cool. :beer:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I'd be weary of running this on a daily (I know the customer isn't), but I applaud nonetheless. Very cool. :beer:


I agree on that this is an awesome result. Ap tuning and united motorsport deserve a clap on their backs.

With zero timing pull at 14psi, and seeing stock engines on ~400 whp (andre did this. as well) I don't understand why to be wary other tha k speeding tickets!

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> I'd be weary of running this on a daily (I know the customer isn't), but I applaud nonetheless. Very cool. :beer:


~14-15psi boost is limited only by the injectors. This turns out to be a decent
setup: enough power to be worth the effort, yet not at the motor's limit.

-Jeffrey Atwood


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Jefnes3 said:


> ~14-15psi boost is limited only by the injectors. This turns out to be a decent
> setup: enough power to be worth the effort, yet not at the motor's limit.


Excellent.
14psi is awfully tempting, but I must resist the temptation. :laugh:
Good work. 
I'll stop clogging the thread now.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Excellent.
> 14psi is awfully tempting, but I must resist the temptation. :laugh:
> Good work.
> I'll stop clogging the thread now.


last post: why must you resist temptation??

just crank the boost and those 550s to 14 psi and have fun!


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

so the BW400 kit, SRI and 870cc on whatever turbo is included in the kit..at say 17/18psi..is looking at 400whp. will the crank/rods hold this for real on a daily car on pump(92)?

is anyone running meth? i would def prefer to do meth since the temps here are static 85-90 year round here with avg humidity 55-65% as well.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Vegeta Gti said:


> so the BW400 kit, SRI and 870cc on whatever turbo is included in the kit..at say 17/18psi..is looking at 400whp. will the crank/rods hold this for real on a daily car on pump(92)?
> 
> is anyone running meth? i would def prefer to do meth since the temps here are static 85-90 year round here with avg humidity 55-65% as well.


550cc

as i said, the turbo depends on the project.

at 14 psi you are looking at around 340 whp. (as little as 330 whp or as much as 360whp)
at 20psi +400 whp

no meth yet


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i know it comes 550cc, and that above dyno is 550cc.

i am saying..with 870cc or larger the sri and bw400 is capable of this. the details on the site are vague and when a turbo is mentioned, it is worded as the turbo was a personal choice, not the kit included unit.

lots of tech, loving it. can't wait to my first 5cyl turbo..that isn't a 4000qt


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Vegeta Gti said:


> i know it comes 550cc, and that above dyno is 550cc.
> 
> i am saying..with 870cc or larger the sri and bw400 is capable of this. the details on the site are vague and when a turbo is mentioned, it is worded as the turbo was a personal choice, not the kit included unit.
> 
> lots of tech, loving it. can't wait to my first 5cyl turbo..that isn't a 4000qt


the next "drop in" injectors are 1000cc. 850s or 870s would need some modifications to fit.

you may also need a fuel pump upgrade... that why most customers [email protected] 550s


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

injector adapters are everywhere, fuelpump upgrade is already in the books with the kit.

just searching as to see if anyone is actually doing it. not just shop cars. someone said in a post that jeff verified that the 870's make a huge difference to go over 12/13psi.

just sorting through a lot of posts from dreamers, and get results from the doers so i have a better plan of attack. prefer to do it in a day and not be surprised too much. :beer:


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

870cc were done for testing and have done 400awhp on a stock motor. However the 870cc tune wont be the finished consumer product. The bigger injector tune will be a little while longer. Just do the 550cc's awhile, if you buy that tune from me now and when you get past the 550cc capabilities I will give you 100% credit towards the next tune, just pay the difference.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> 870cc were done for testing and have done 400awhp on a stock motor. However the 870cc tune wont be the finished consumer product. The bigger injector tune will be a little while longer. Just do the 550cc's awhile, if you buy that tune from me now and when you get past the 550cc capabilities I will give you 100% credit towards the next tune, just pay the difference.


so i'll have to wait with ONLY 355 whp?

this sucks.

lmao.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

thygreyt said:


> so i'll have to wait with ONLY 355 whp?


Yea sorry lol

New dyno graphs posted 

2.5 dyno charts


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

oh i can get a file for the injectors i'm sure.

just wanted clarification that it was the limiting factor.


no can say what turbo comes with the bw400?


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

Vegeta Gti said:


> oh i can get a file for the injectors i'm sure.
> 
> just wanted clarification that it was the limiting factor.
> 
> ...


Precision 6076E


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Tom, do you guys have any go pro?? If not, i can ship you mines... I have to i can lend you guys.

You NEED to record the owner when he first drives the car... I want to sse his face and hear his voice when he says: holy fackin shiz



Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

Thats a great idea which I never thought of but will definitely for in the future. Customer picked the car up and is on his way back home, Im sure he will post up when he gets back(has a couple hour drive)

He was definitely happy with it so far and at 8psi loved how it drove like it just made more power smoothly without the harsh or abrupt power delivery you normally get when turbo-ing an NA car.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

hmm, going to talk to gabe when we order the kit and go with a garrett unit. already spoke to [email protected]

also try to go with larger injectors as well.

once the owner gets the clutch in and i install it. we will begin the order process for the kit.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

while he was not the first mk6 2.5T, i think that without a doubt we can say that he is the most powerful one for sure.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

thygreyt said:


> while he was not the first mk6 2.5T, i think that without a doubt we can say that he is the most powerful one for sure.



Possibly: this car is the 1st Mk6 really documented and into top ~5 documented highest hp on stock 2.5 motor.

Nice work gents.

-Jeffrey Atwood


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Update 08/25/2012 - It's Home*

Quick context prior to picking up the car... I took 2 days off from work, traveling by bus, and it was a mess. Nine (9) hours stuck in Port Authority until 3:15 AM, back spasms, my cell phone loosing charge and overheating, and only 2 hours (yes) of sleep. So it was crazy, and I'm now in “recovery” mode.

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE GOOD ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know... you want the good first, so here you go. My VW Golf 2.5 MK6 is no longer just a Golf. This is a sports car; and it is 90% of what I have been developing over the past year. 

FIRM - On-tap power is only part of the experience. With bushing upgrades and an Anti-lift kit, the car delivers and controls that power so it feels -solid- no matter how much you push it. Literally, it feels like something is “pushing” the car (like it was rear engine). 

It feels whole, like you're being gripped in power as it moves at the press of a pedal. Except at shifts, there is zero slop anywhere. It turns with smooth authority – not loose, a little heavy, and always where you point it. Tight as a drum without sacrificing comfort.

BRAKES - Upgraded brakes means you feel absolute confidence that you can slow, turn, and stop at will. Cross drilled, slotted, SS lines, and Akebono ceramics make a nice package. No worries about fading or over heated brakes. Increased power without better braking is silly, if not foolish. A must-have.

SOUND - The sound is deeper than I expected, and it's there all the time. It doesn't roar or growl. It's just the sweet 5 cylinder sound that sings while you open up the lungs. The sound brings the full complement to the sport experience – it's the audible feedback that this object can (and will) move with authority. (Keep in mind, I already have an AWE catback, but lost the APR CAI.)

POWER - Right. Everyone always wants to know “how fast is it?” To begin, believe it or not, while the boost gauge reads < 0 (that's negative ambient air pressure), the 2.5T feels a LOT more powerful. It feels “quicker,” like it's baiting you to step on it. If the car were a horse, it would be saying “Are you serious?! Come on, kick it!!!” 

Cruising along at -15 psi (that's right, negative 15) – you touch the the gas, the needle moves East, and it starts whistling @ -5 psi. As it reads zero (0), you really feel it “pushing” like when an airplane begins it's tarmac launch. As the psi rises, the whistle gets a tad louder, and the baritone note of the pipes start to blare. It's 2.5 opera. I never pushed it beyond 4 psi. Really - just getting used to an extra 100 foot pounds of torque takes time.

MILEAGE - My gas sucking Golf normally gets a consistent 38 mpg highway. In fact, prior to the SRI, I was getting ~ 40 mpg highway (a little technique). On the way back it got 35 mpg, but that's with an immense amount of hard driving, lot's of idling, and stop and go city traffic prior to getting on the highway. With all the small towns I went through (Route 11 is gorgeous winding roads), I am very happy the mpg remains nearly the same under “normal” driving conditions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE BAD ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JERK – All that extra torque means shifting can be jerky between gears. So I was much gentler with my shifts and it goes away. However, if you want to “get on it,” it means upgrade time... again!!! So BFI engine and transmission mounts are next (if I still have any money).

SOUND – Yeah, you read this was a good thing. Well, I bought the AWE cat back cause it uses dual resonators to lesson drone when cruising, and it does that well. But that benefit is gone. Not only is it fairly loud at cruising speeds, it's louder all the time. Now you young bucks get all jacked about a loud car, but my ears are much older, and my wife (nurse) already says I have some hearing loss. So louder is not necessarily better, for me. One would think the turbine would dampen the cat's growl, but my suspicion is the down pipe actually adds to it. So the net is an increase in decibels (albeit, a sweet sound.)

STALLING – No, it's not the horse metaphor again. The car stalls like a b*tch when you're coming to a stop – unless you rev it up just before. Tom dialed up the idle rpm to remedy, but I don't think it's an idle rpm issue. My noob guess is it has to do with AFR, but I'm just speculating. It has to get fixed cause it's annoying, and dangerous! Going to the VW dealer Monday.

COST - 2nd most asked question: “How much?” Well, all up / all in, this effort alone was around $8500 parts + labor. Total cost on this car to-date is much, much, more... Right. Holy $hi* Batman!

SCHEDULE - You've already read it, so why belabor the point?


:facepalm:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:facepalm:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE UGLY ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:facepalm:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CEL – 2/3 of the way on a 250 mil trip I drove with a solid lit CEL. While it kept me from falling asleep (2 hours sleep over 36 hours), it was hell to stare at for hours. That was hell. So I'm going in to my local VW dealer to have it looked at Monday.

TIME - The amount time, lost work-time, hotels, travel, etc., etc. is inane. You have to be either a gear-head yourself or cockeyed to invest / risk this much time.

REDO??? - Do this again? Let's put it this way... the car is fantastic to drive. However, a “normal” person would / should never do or spend all the sh*t I've done to get it to this point. Do it again? “Never. No way. No how.” (As the Wizard of Oz would say.) This, my friend, has been an exercise in insanity. It's 100% freak king nuts. (Go buy an R you idiot.) Seriously. I would not do this again.



So, stay tuned bat friends, cause ...

ic:########## LOTS OF PHOTOS AND VIDEOS TO COME ##########

-Chris :screwy:


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*... one more "Bad"*

cruise control doesn't work


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

Yea get me the code as soon as you can, even if you can stop by a parts store. Something is weird as I drove it like 60miles and even when we test drove together there was never a cel or stall. I wonder if a sensor is flaking out or something. I assume these odd things must be linked in some fashion considering the car runs/drives fine other then stopped at idle


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

no cruise control?

very weird. find the code.

autozone i think scans for free.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

OldPhart said:


> P050B = cold start ignition timing performance
> 
> P0420 = catalyst system efficiency below threshold


p0420 is easy to fix..

p050b is for them experts


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*2.5T Clean*

Autozone read and cleared codes, and everything seems normal. Big Thanks Grey Man.
Running errands all morning, and - No stalling. No CEL. (Still need to check cruise again.)
Everything feels completely normal again. 

Upgrading aesthetics has begun. Today, added new grilles, badges, polished SRI (god, cleaning that is nasty, but it's getting shiny). Will post pics w/ new OZ rims, etc. soon.

I have been meaning to shoot video for ~ 8 mons, and Tom recommended "Go Pro." So I'm going to set that up w/ headrest post attachment. I want you all to see, hear, and "feel" what it's like to drive this bunny. Yes, there have been hardships, but I have especially wanted others to enjoy this along with me. It's fun to share toys.

*MANY THANKS* to the AP Tuning team: Tom & Ryan, for hanging w/ me this weekend making sure everything is OK. Bumps are part of any big project, and these guys have been there Sat & Sun ensuring things are good. So thanks. Engine bay pics can be found at AP Tuning's Facebook page here.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

cant wait for the vids! opcorn:
btw, which attatchments??

also, i have personally tested the go pro suction cup mount on the side of the car, top, and rear up to 110 mph... they held.

they also sustained no damage in the mouth of a big white shark.
And motor trend/drive/evoTV/etc have tested them on exotics to up to 200 mph without issues.


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Go Pro Mount Attachment...*

I ordered the "Handlebar & Seatpost Attachment" here.

This camera should allow wide angles @ 125 - 170 degree with supposedly awesome audio capture. Great visuals are only 1/2 the experience without great audio, especially that throaty 2.5

Looking forward to getting some rich and lengthy video on You Tube as homage to the 2.5 - it needs some loooooooove!

:heart:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

no attempt to thread jack, and will remove the videos if OP wants it so.

2 vids of the some i have recorded...


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Shiny SRI !!!???*

How'd you get your SRI so shiny ???


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

OldPhart said:


> How'd you get your SRI so shiny ???


Lots of polishing, I bet Fed had tennis elbow after that lol


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

OldPhart said:


> How'd you get your SRI so shiny ???


lol, yup.. 3 days of polishing.

i kept polishing while watching tv... untill it became a mirror... 

have fun!


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Week One Update*

Well, I've had the "new" car one week, and here are some observations (pics real soon). 

Pros: 



Faster. 

For the most part, runs normal and is still a lot of fun to drive. 

Deep sound. 

Handles beautifully on curves. 

Tight as a drum. 

Looks nice. 

 

Cons: 



Quickness vastly reduced. ECU seems to be dumbing it down. 

Boost drops from 4-5 psi down to -20 psi, sputters a bit. 

Stalls intermittently, though less than at first. 

Backfires, especially when downshifting. 

Exhaust really smells and tips get black 1-2 days. 

Cruise & Consumption (average MPG) don't work. 

 

I hope all issues are cleared up in next 1-2 weeks.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

OldPhart said:


> Well, I've had the "new" car one week, and here are some observations (pics real soon).
> 
> Pros:
> 
> ...


 The back fire and the exhaust are normal things.
I have.similar "issues" on my naturally aspirated 2.5

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Portrait Pic 08/31/2012*

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/113877923939162971773/albums/5782939619514453761


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Exhaust Issue*

I thought the smell and black tips were due to an overly rich AFR.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

OldPhart said:


> I thought the smell and black tips were due to an overly rich AFR.


 sort of. 

OVERLY rich sounds like a lot... lol. 13s (afr) should produce black tips... i think its a lil bit easier with no cat, which i'm assuming you dont have. That would be the "particular" smell. 

when 2.5s downshift the "fart"... on a turbo it would be more pronunced.. lol. 

since i switched to UM and SRI, i get black tips every 3-5 days... now i dont mind. 
Oh, i have an AFR gauge... ummm, the AFR is normal, or "as it should" all the time...on acceleration, the car goes a lil rich... its normal.


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## mjb8482 (Mar 4, 2008)

OldPhart said:


> I thought the smell and black tips were due to an overly rich AFR.


 I noticed the same thing with my setup. I left my cat in (for now) and I get an ammonia smell that I never got before. I read that its pretty common and nothing to be alarmed about. And the soot is normal with turbo cars--my buddy's MazdaSpeed 3 is so bad it builds up soot on the back bumper within a week of cleaning.


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Weekly Rush 09-02-2012*

Went for my early Sunday morning espirit das auto on winding country roads... 

*FAST* 

Turbo still active throughout the power band, and holds pretty well up into 8 psi. As I've written before, the car pulls very evenly. But when the turbocharger gets into positive territory... What a rush! Driving in 2nd & 3rd gears means the torque is right there, waiting to be flipped on. It is dangerously easy to get to 60, 70, 80... 

While the turbo continues to sputter and drop off intermittently, this car is really fast. 

*HANDLING* 

Having upgraded control and trailing arm bushings, adding the WALK (Whiteline Anti-Lift Kit), running 17" Sumitomo HTR tires – this thing gives me complete confidence down the straights and corners. Early on, I took a 90 degree turn at 35-40 mph and it didn't flinch. I hit some (slow neighborhoods) with ~ 150 degree turns, and it was truly a pleasure to take. 

This much power with great handling makes driving an absolute pleasure. BTW – I get zero wheel hop or chirp (partly how I drive it). 

*BRAKING* 

I'll say it again. The package is not complete unless you can brake any time with confidence. Slowing into corners, stop signs, neighborhoods, radar traps, etc. is just a tap away. Coming back around that tight 90 degree turn, the brakes just came on so smooth and tight, and just nails the sport experience. 

*SOUND* 

I've concluded that the sweet, deep, hollow sound was the APR Cold Air Intake – and it's gone  But, I'm going to see if the carbon fibre can be heated and re-molded, and maybe fitted back on. I can't imagine it would impair flow to the compressor. Otherwise, car still has a nice deep sound. (Just miss that cavernous howl...) 

*SHIFTING* 

One down side of all that power is it makes transmission and engine engagement a little jerky. My plan is to upgrade to BFI engine and tranny mounts. I can see how the clutch and differential could break under this extra strain. Think about it. You're throwing up to 50% more stress on those components – ouch! 

*GAUGES* 

Oil pressure tends to run around 40-50 psi (seems normal). Oil temp stays cool at just under 120 degrees almost 100% of the time. Got to love that oil cooler. Engine temp is just a hair higher all the time. 

*MPG* 

Let's just say that spirited driving with 550 fuel injectors means gas is pissed out the pipes. I went through 1/8 of a tank on very, very few miles. The "Consumption" reading is definitely wrong (showed 30 MPG – right...). Oh well. That's why I defer all this fun to just once a week. 

*EXTERIOR* 

Aside from 17" OZ Lounge 10 rims and the Sumitomo tires, I've swapped out the grilles, added black side decals running tire-to-tire, added a rear spoiler, removed all badges except one: "2.5T". I love the way it looks: black on white, clean, modestly aggressive. Today's pic is here. 

*CONCLUSION* 

Yes. Yes. There are outstanding problems that need fixing. And frankly, I was afraid it would ice my Sunday jaunt in the hills. But that little bunny put on its sneakers, and did not disappoint. God I am blessed. That is pure FUN  

[videos coming soon...]


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## aquino (Mar 12, 2007)

opcorn: 
video


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Because of you, I too will start my boost at .5 bar.

You are making me very very excited. It all sounds too much fun!!

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## donjuan1jr (Oct 8, 2008)

what exactly do you mean the turbo intermittently sputters and boost will drop off from 4psi down to full vac? Car stalls? 

Wish you were closer, id love to log her.


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## mjb8482 (Mar 4, 2008)

donjuan1jr said:


> what exactly do you mean the turbo intermittently sputters and boost will drop off from 4psi down to full vac? Car stalls?
> 
> Wish you were closer, id love to log her.


 Maybe clutch slipping? That's what it felt like to me at first.


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Issues*



donjuan1jr said:


> what exactly do you mean the turbo intermittently sputters and boost will drop off from 4psi down to full vac? Car stalls?
> 
> Wish you were closer, id love to log her.


 So there are a number of problems, and I hope to video capture soon. But it's like this: 

Sputter: As I'm going into positive boost, the car will get boost, drop a bit, come back up, etc. So what I call "sputter" feels a bit like "hesitation" (of boost). That's the best I can describe in words. 

Drop: Literally, the gauge hits 8 psi, and then just drops back down to -25 psi, or what you call full vacuum. There's something audible too. This happens about 1/2 the time. 

Stalling: This happened twice last night rounding an off ramp, shifted to neutral, and dump - engine OFF. Crap. This is becoming a safety issue. (And I'm commuting long distances beginning this Nov.) 

This stuff is getting old.


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Growing pains.. 
You're one of the first Mk6 2.5Ts, so there's bound to be challenges. 
I'm sure these problems will be sorted out. Stay positive. :thumbup:


----------



## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Update 09/08/2012*

First, I posted the 1st of many videos on You Tube. ic: 

These are the 1st set, and are not the quality I will eventually produce. Also, since the car still has some problems, you don't get the full experience of its capabilities. 

Second, the car continues to perform nicely and handles beautifully. When it gets and holds full boost, you feel the seat pushing against your back – nice feedback. Then it pulls strong on those curves while the engine rumbles its pleasure. Again, handling is so tight! 

Even stock, this car has always moved, especially with a combined CAI & SRI. In fact, I'd say for those wanting more out of your 2.5 – add the Carbonio CAI first. It's a blast! When you've got some more cash, add the SRI – nice power bump. I'd say stop there. OK, add some bushing upgrades too. 

Third, issues outstanding remain: boost falling, throttle less responsive, stinks to high heaven, stalling (though not as often). I had my local shop check her out, and she is running an extremely rich AFR (knew that in the first few days). Tom @ AP Tuning believes most issues stem from the same problem. 

New problem??? Also, had an "oil leak" coming off the pipe running from compressor to inter-cooler they looked at. It's not an leak per se – I need a catch can! All the excess oil vapor is just running all over the underbelly of the engine... nice. Well Mary, there's another $300. And they affirmed my initial belief - should have had an AFR wide-band gauge with other gauges. Then I'd have empirical data from day one that it's been running rich like cream. OK Mary, there's another $300. 

My MPG!!!??? The car is pissing fuel like a race horse – holy crap. My combined MPG normally runs ~ 33 (highway 39.5), but it's now running maybe 23 combined. Yes, bigger injectors don't help. But a 33% loss??? That has to be improved when the core problems are fixed. 

Hopefully, all these bugs will get worked out soon. Real soon. 

Meanwhile, should have more video tomorrow - no head tilting required ... promise


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

lol, my SRI eats fuel too, if i push it.


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## aquino (Mar 12, 2007)

very nice:thumbup:


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Video Parts 2 & 3 Uploaded*

Part of same trip yesterday. Part 1 already posted. 

Video Clip - Part 2 

Video Clip - Part 3 

This mornings vids coming...


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

lol, you are feeding my addiction!


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Sunday's Videos*

New camera position. New (very sunny) day. Little more punch. 

ic: Part 4 

ic: Part 5 

Dub :heart:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

also, what is it with the "cool down" sticker?


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Turbo Timer...*



thygreyt said:


> also, what is it with the "cool down" sticker?


 That's my poorman's version of a "Turbo Timer" :laugh: 

(getting old friend ~ "now where'd i put my keys... ???")


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

OldPhart said:


> So there are a number of problems, and I hope to video capture soon. But it's like this:
> 
> Sputter: As I'm going into positive boost, the car will get boost, drop a bit, come back up, etc. So what I call "sputter" feels a bit like "hesitation" (of boost). That's the best I can describe in words.
> 
> ...


Any word on getting this stuff resolved? Still considering a 2.5 swap, but stuff like this makes me second guess it.


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Update 09/16/2012*



HalvieCuw said:


> Any word on getting this stuff resolved? Still considering a 2.5 swap, but stuff like this makes me second guess it.


*Fixes*

 Bad News: The outstanding issues are all ECU-related and cannot be solved remotely, so I'm headed back to AP Tuning next month (NY → PA on Fri 10/05 @ 3 AM).

 Good News: I was already planning a fall trip to VA, and Lebanon PA is nearly smack in the middle.

ic: So no progress until early next month. I'll plan to take my camera and film after the re-tune. 
Maybe I'll film "reality TV" style... Opinions???

*Meanwhile*

I was going to head out for my Sunday early AM romp in the country, but want to wait. Why? Well, five videos is enough in the 2.5's current state. You (I) cannot appreciate its potential until the tune is fixed. When in top health: it launches *so *much quicker, it pops *so *much faster, and does so with *far *better MPG (doesn't stink either ).

Bottom-line: Get a quality turbo-kit, find a great installation team, and then everything else is tune, tune, and tune til it's right. Remember, the MK6 2.5T only has been done 2X! That means this whole damn thing is an experiment, and only the patient should embark so forth.

Peace.


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## Wooshio (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks for all the updates man, it's appreciated. :thumbup:

I wonder how the C2 Turbo MK6 guy is doing, he hasn't posted much.


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## [email protected]ning (Feb 4, 2004)

HalvieCuw said:


> Any word on getting this stuff resolved? Still considering a 2.5 swap, but stuff like this makes me second guess it.


Keep in mind this is the first mk6 2.5 Turbo running legitimate amount of boost. 

If you use mk5 electronics tuning has long been dialed in.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

I won't speak of or about the c2 guy.
But I think that the sw issue is already fixed, its a matter of time before op gets updated.
I should be getting my ecu with turbo sw hopefully by tomorrow, if there still any issues, ill see what I can do with um to solve them as I have local dealers within 40 miles.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

thygreyt said:


> I won't speak of or about the c2 guy.
> But I think that the sw issue is already fixed, its a matter of time before op gets updated.
> I should be getting my ecu with turbo sw hopefully by tomorrow, if there still any issues, ill see what I can do with um to solve them as I have local dealers within 40 miles.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


Yea I think the software as a whole is but his has some weird issues that are mk6 specific.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Damn MKVIs. I miss my MKV


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

thygreyt said:


> I won't speak of or about the c2 guy.
> But I think that the sw issue is already fixed, its a matter of time before op gets updated.
> I should be getting my ecu with turbo sw hopefully by tomorrow, if there still any issues, ill see what I can do with um to solve them as I have local dealers within 40 miles.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


Are you planning on staying around the OP's power level, or going to bump it up once everything gets sorted out?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

HalvieCuw said:


> Are you planning on staying around the OP's power level, or going to bump it up once everything gets sorted out?


i plan on having 4 different boost levels, and they can be switched to at any time.

8 psi, 10,12 and 14.
eventually, once the engine is built and such, i might go close to the 30s or wherever the injectors max out (not the 550s.), but thats far away with AWD.


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Videos...*

Uploading a bunch of videos today, including exterior, engine bay, runs (yeah, diarrhea), and a music video (really). 

ic: Here's the Tour of the Engine Bay 

ic: Here's the first run of the day 

Uploading a music video now, which is run #2 with a music track layered over. It's a piece I composed two years ago. 

 Thought it'd be nice to set some 2.5T dance to music... 

Will be uploading more videos throughout the day. 

:beer: Guiness Extra Stout rules.


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

:thumbup: for all of the effort you've put in to make videos and add to the community's knowledge. 

Now I want to see it running against some other cars!


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Music Video #1*

ic: Check it out... Golf MK6 2.5T dancing to the groove


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## aquino (Mar 12, 2007)

Wow, the amount of information you share is unreal. Glad you decided to stick around after boosting and not disappearing once you got the car back.:thumbup:


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Music Video #2*

ic: Jump on it...


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Update 10/19/2012*

Since my last update on 9/16, this is what's transpired. (Yeah, I know I'm long-winded.)

Thur 10/04 early evening, I left Upstate NY after work and spent the night in Wilkes Barre, PA with plans to arrive @ AP Tuning in PA on Friday, 10/05 early AM. 

Friday, 10/05 early morn, arrived @ AP Tuning and spent the day while they tuned it off and on throughout the day (I took a day off work which sucks because I'm self-employed). Dave made an adjustment to prevent dripping oil vapor.

Friday, 10/05 early eve, headed on towards VA to visit family. After about 10 miles the car seems hesitant on acceleration. The cruise worked. Then I noticed on hard acceleration the boost would rise fast, but the RPM and speed were sluggish. It was as if the throttle and turbo were in conflict. The AFR seemed off. See You Tube video.

Sat 10/06 – Fri 10/12, spent the week with family in VA as planned, and the car drove OK, but still hesitant and sluggish. AP Tuning said it seemed odd since it was just tuned again. I've held that the ECU has always rejected the foreign parts and programming, and that's what might be happening. 

 So I had to get it tuned again. Cut a whole day off my VA trip back to AP Tuning, since it can't be done remotely.

Fri, 10/12 early eve (my birthday), I headed to Winchester VA to spend the night. It was cold @ 11:30 PM and as I locked the car I stopped to get some leaves off. I heard a sound from the engine bay, and popped the hood. Both radiator fans were running. Normal perhaps, but I've never it noticed before.

Saturday, 10/13 early AM , I arrive @ AP Tuning for another day of tuning. I mentioned the fans... hours of highway driving would do that, so not to worry. Early afternoon I took it for a drive, and it was perfect. No stalling, no CEL, no hesitation, smooth and very, very fast. Too fast. It always handles and brakes beautifully. God, does it handle! Still stinky. Oh, and the sound...

 Saturday, 10/13 early eve, driving back to Upstate NY was a pleasure. It was the opposite of the first trip back – a ride of terror. This was fun and what I had expected all along. Beautiful, crisp fall day.

Saturday, Sunday, Monday car runs beautifully. But the fans are getting worse. Now they kick on first thing on a cold engine... that's not normal. Then they seem to stay on for 45 min while in the gym. Come to find out, they probably weren't on. Why? 

Today, a VW buddy and I thought the fan was going on just from opening the car door. This is BEFORE you even put the key in the ignition. So we tested this 2X on a cold car and sure enough, door opened and fans kick on. Close door, wait 1 min and fans go off. Open door, turn key for electric, and fans go back on. I've retested this x times since, and it's consistent.

 Spent $100 at the dealer. They said nothing's physically wrong. No codes. One guy says it's not the tune, the other says it is the tune... I just want the damn thing fixed. I'm tired!

Taking car to local Euro specialists next week, hoping they'll have an answer. Another $100 in diagnostics...

Ideas welcome.


:thumbup: Peace.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Seems as if the relay is screwed up. Checked those? It's getting 12v by opening the door? I'd check relays and wiring.bad short to ground maybe?

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


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## Rabbit_2.5 (Mar 6, 2009)

It almost sounds to me like somehow the fan circuit got crossed with the fuel pump circuit... no idea how that would happen from a turbo install though :screwy:


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## jaja123 (Jan 17, 2011)

aww shucks. Hopefully things work out =( this coming from someone who wants to turbo his mk6 2.5. But yea acceleration wise it didnt seem that much better than stock to be honest.


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Sunday Runs (Videos) + 10/21/2012*

 Overall, the car continues to run nicely.  However, we're still having tune issues (please stop!).

...

*SPUTTER*

As you'll see in the video entitled “Golf MK6 2.5 Project - First Gear Sputter,” the turbo sputters and the AFR reads full LEAN in first gear @ WOT. Turbo and AFR appear normal in remaining gears.

ic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK-2NwghnKg 

*SPRINTS*

The video of “Sunday Sprints” shows the car moves very nicely, but never gets boost in first gear. Get's to zero vacuum and – nothing. What's with that? (God help me...)

ic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkB8jb85ZtQ 

*UNDERBELLY*

Also, day of Tune #2 we take a guided video tour with “Master Mechanic Dave” around the underbelly of the 2.5T Project, looking at bushing upgrades, pipes, etc. Dave is awesome.

ic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_fh8ikFOk4&feature=youtu.be

...

*PAIN*

Been burning time (work, vacation...) and ca$$$h on this far too long - since June. Getting tired.

I may give up and just tear the turbo out, go back to an SRI & CAI (never gave me trouble). _Seriously_. Or maybe sell it to someone who has the equipment & skills I don't have. _Seriously_.

Yeah, it'd be a huge loss of time and money, but the car was always so reliable. And the MPG was sweet (39 highway).

:facepalm: Peace


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

dont drawn on the shore.

at this points the issues are minuscule...


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Update 11/04/2012*

Since the tune issues have persisted, we were coming to an impasse... but I am trying to be reasonable, and so have given it one-more-attempt.

I drove from Upstate, NY to Lebanon, PA (AP Tuning) round trip yesterday (10 hours), and dropped off my car. It really sucks to waste more money, more time, etc. but whatever... The only blessing is Tom lent me his car to use since I need a car to teach.

My confidence level for success at this point is ~ 6%. We're allowing ~ 2-3 weeks to either nail or fail this effort. I won't belabor the list, but all issues need to be resolved. 

Unrelated note... I test drove a mini S the other day. It was quick & nice, but not the same. The dash was bewildering – couldn't figure out how to turn off the radio. VW = clean and classy.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i know for a fact that all your issues will be solved VERY soon and fast.


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

updates?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

all i know is that jeff and I have been working on some updates for all me17 2.5L cars.

and OP and I have almost the same ecu... which translates into a VERY similar software code. Keep in mind i have 550cc turbo SW like he does.

i did have the issues he mentioned, but they are not as bad as described... regardless, it has long since been solved and improved. 

right now everything is working beautifully.


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

I also have hopes that your tuning issues will be resolved as the tuners (ie UM) have more time with several different cars. Tuning for this ECU is at its earliest possible stages...it's so fresh and young, but I am confident any and all issues will be sorted as they gain more experience with this ECU/engine. As I am posting this, UM is writing a custom turbo file for my 09 golf.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

as i said, all issues are gone...

i've been driving it for 1 or 2 months now without issues.


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> as i said, all issues are gone...
> 
> i've been driving it for 1 or 2 months now without issues.


Does your jetta have a turbo on it?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

no


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

TrillyPop said:


> Does your jetta have a turbo on it?


thats irrelevant to the point.

the issue OP had was software. And as i said: we have the same sw.. i have turbo SW on my ECU


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm just curious...how/why do you have turbo sw on your ECU, yet your car is not turbocharged?


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

TrillyPop said:


> I'm just curious...how/why do you have turbo sw on your ECU, yet your car is not turbocharged?


Everything still works the same as if it was a turbo car not in boost, figure even on a turbo car you are really only in boost probably less then 1% of the time the car is running


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## federikg (Mar 13, 2011)

The original ECU from a 2.5l natural aspirated uses MAP and MAF ?

There is no problem to run the original MAP with 14 or 20 psi?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

TrillyPop said:


> I'm just curious...how/why do you have turbo sw on your ECU, yet your car is not turbocharged?


I was already there on my first attempt... injectors were in and the ecu was sent. since there are no issues on running turbo sw on NA mode, thats what i'm doing... And with it, jeff an i made an AMAZING tune. 

i tested, jeff coded. 



[email protected] said:


> Everything still works the same as if it was a turbo car not in boost, figure even on a turbo car you are really only in boost probably less then 1% of the time the car is running


precisely.

Also, i can now bolt in the turbo at any time... i just need the time! 

btw, the 550cc injectors dont necesarily damage the fuel economy... i still get ~30 mpg.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> btw, the 550cc injectors dont necesarily damage the fuel economy... i still get ~30 mpg.


I never understood why people assumed that because the injectors are bigger they inject more fuel than you ask for. they have the capability to inject more fuel but they don't inject 50% more all the time because they are bigger...


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

DerekH said:


> I never understood why people assumed that because the injectors are bigger they inject more fuel than you ask for. they have the capability to inject more fuel but they don't inject 50% more all the time because they are bigger...


lol, i dont get it either, but i wrote it just so people dont assume wrong things.


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Update 12/02/2012*

The car was in both PA & CT the past three (3) weeks, and was returned to me yesterday. I took it for a quick test yesterday, 
and drove around this morning doing errands. Here are my observations: 

 *GOOD NEWS* 



No CEL 

No hesitation 

Gets and holds boost normal 

AFR gauge reading normal under various conditions 

Very quick (ESP flashing in seconds) 

Ultra smooth shifts (it was jerky before, and thought it needed new engine mounts) 

Very smooth RPM / Acceleration ratio 

 

 *BAD NEWS* 



None 

 

*OTHER* 

Have not checked if fans issue is resolved, but will check during the week. Hope to God that problem is gone for good. 
(Note to self: Check cruise too.) 

It appears that maybe the “Consumption” readout on the MFI may be working again. I was told by an independent tech that I should not have been surprised to have lost this when going NA → Turbo. That would be a nice bonus to have the Average MPG back again. I'll check it commuting 200 mi this week. 

*SUMMARY* 

Too early to make a final conclusion, and want to hold my hope for now. Tune issues do not always arise right away, so I'll wait about 1-2 weeks to wrap up my thoughts, for better or worse. 

Peace for now. 

-Chris


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

glad you are happy... 

oh, dont try and go too fast... you should have "special" tweaks on your software... 

Enjoy!


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Great news! So did Jeff tune this? I'm pretty sure if its got no cel, runs smoothly, and isn't having a single issue it was done by him.

Its funny you bring up the jerky feeling because that's how I'm feeling my tune is.its not a smooth feeling drive.now again my flywheel and clutch are upgraded to a4 puck ceramic clutch disc with single mass lightened wheel.but still i bet it could be done correctly by the man who knows what the eff he's doing.

Sounds amazing!

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


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## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

thygreyt said:


> glad you are happy...
> 
> oh, dont try and go too fast... you should have "special" tweaks on your software...
> 
> Enjoy!


 What all would I have to install in my car to run the turbo tune on NA until I got mine built?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

bobsuncle said:


> What all would I have to install in my car to run the turbo tune on NA until I got mine built?


 what? i dont understand anything at all...


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## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

thygreyt said:


> what? i dont understand anything at all...


 A few posts back you said you were running Jeff's turbo tune when you were still N/A. Do I just need injectors or do I need headers/SRI/exhaust too? 

BTW, have you got your Jetta put together yet? Last pic I saw of it you were getting ready to finish up your own turbo.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

To run a turbo tune without turbo you can install 550cc injectors and then install the turbo. But why would you runa turbo file if you dont have one coming. Its a different setup as the car revs its expecting boost,so thefueling is going to change.its not a bad thing though. I ran my turbo tune for a few days without issue, except it being non turbo lol.

Now that its turbo it uses that file to the fullest extent!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

TylerO28 said:


> To run a turbo tune without turbo you can install 550cc injectors and then install the turbo. But why would you runa turbo file if you dont have one coming. Its a different setup as the car revs its expecting boost,so thefueling is going to change.its not a bad thing though. I ran my turbo tune for a few days without issue, except it being non turbo lol.
> 
> Now that its turbo it uses that file to the fullest extent!
> 
> ...


 The only thing I hate about this car is the inability to tune the car myself. It really pisses me off, and it makes it impossible to build a car out over months with constant tweaking of tunes. 

I'm going FI eventually, but the damn tuners being over a thousand miles away makes **** more difficult than need be.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

thats due the owner's location and car model/year 

i rented the flash cable from UM. Initially i sent my ECU to be programmed for the turbo. and any updates and tests i've flashed on my garage. 

our software (op and i have the same software) has been tested by me for ~8k miles, and should be issue free. I havent been carless during the whole process. 

mk6s so far are unable to be port flashed, as far as i know


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## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

thygreyt said:


> thats due the owner's location and car model/year
> 
> i rented the flash cable from UM. Initially i sent my ECU to be programmed for the turbo. and any updates and tests i've flashed on my garage.


 What did that tool cost you once Jeff unlocked your ECU?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i rented the cable.. i have to return it soon. 

therefore it costed me the rental price.. i dont remember how much it was because i paid for the SW+cable a while ago... 

contact [email protected] or [email protected] 

the reason for the rental cable is that once you flash the car, you will most likely never have to do it again.. so there is no point on buying such thing to use it once or twice 

edit: 

also, i was UM sri tuned before i had the turbo sw. 

the thing is that all turbo tunes (for 2.5L) must be flashed in house by UM. the updates can be done with the cable or by a dealer nearby.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I need to get this done. I'm sick of the tune c2 seems to have [email protected] out...

E mailed united, hope to hear from them soon

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

I think the 2.5T tunes are finally being perfected by UM...this car, pennysdubbin has a nice tune from what I can tell. Mine is currently being tweaked. Tyler join the club man!


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm on my way trilly

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> lol, i dont get it either, but i wrote it just so people dont assume wrong things.


 I'm sure.


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## jaja123 (Jan 17, 2011)

Need vids naooo


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

My UM tune is fun at 22psi  Only reason i havnt turned it up is lack of traction 1st-4th  :thumbup: 

AWD this winter..........30psi.......... BYE BYE GTR!


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

Brabbit that sounds amazing. The only other thing you could do for traction would be those SRS wide fenders and some wider wheels, but obvi it's not worth it at this point with the AWD getting sorted over winter. I'm curious to see how long ~350-400hp will keep me satisfied. I can't wait to get the car back Monday night, ****kkkkkkkk


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

I run 255s with stock fenders. Its totally doable.


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## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

DerekH said:


> I run 255s with stock fenders. Its totally doable.


 Pics! Now! I've got 245s and I want to upgrade to 255s


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

DerekH said:


> I run 255s with stock fenders. Its totally doable.


 It's totally doable with a narrow sidewall and the correct suspension height. I run a 225/35 and could easily fit a 235, possibly even a 245 while maintaining the same height. Unfortunate some of us are determined to have power and low stance, so a limit is reached on stock fenders.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

TrillyPop said:


> It's totally doable with a narrow sidewall and the correct suspension height. I run a 225/35 and could easily fit a 235, possibly even a 245 while maintaining the same height. Unfortunate some of us are determined to have power and low stance, so a limit is reached on stock fenders.


 You'll need to take into consideration the offset of your wheels. - don't know if it was mentioned may be. 

I've got RGRs on and at ET35 I rub with 225.... and almost all the way up on my H&Rs lol. Hopefully I can go turbo soon and yes I will want 255s.


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## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

TrillyPop said:


> It's totally doable with a narrow sidewall and the correct suspension height. I run a 225/35 and could easily fit a 235, possibly even a 245 while maintaining the same height. Unfortunate some of us are determined to have power and low stance, so a limit is reached on stock fenders.


 Go with H&R OEs from a MKV GTI. I've seen a car on those springs (0.5" drop) and 245/45r18s. 

I'm on 245/45r17s stock and I've got a full 4" of gap. I'd be moving to 27" tires if I wouldn't smack straight into the fender turning b/c I have an insane offset (35). I'll be dropping 0.5-1" myself b/c I need to quit driving like a damn rally driver over the winter. 

....until I AWD swap...


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

I suppose I assumed the wheels would be pushed in as far as possible, since we are talking cramming the widest possible tire under there. Mine are et44 and barely clear the struts. Et35 is not ideal for upsizing your tires because you're going to have wasted space on the inside of the wheel well.


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## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

TrillyPop said:


> I suppose I assumed the wheels would be pushed in as far as possible, since we are talking cramming the widest possible tire under there. Mine are et44 and barely clear the struts. Et35 is not ideal for upsizing your tires because you're going to have wasted space on the inside of the wheel well.


 Wide is good for dirt roads at high speed like what I drive every day. 

TBH I may go out even wider. Its not about looks ya see. Its about haulin ass in middle of nowhere.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Its a 255/40/17 on a 17 by 8 et 45. My plan is to swich to a 17 by 9 et 38ish next season. still at stock hight but looking at it with a little bit of camber everything would clear when lower. 

Pics are here http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Golf-Jetta&p=73848499&viewfull=1#post73848499 

Edit: 

Got the idea from this guy. Hes was running the exact setup i was running for the past two summers


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## tspooner (Feb 28, 2010)

subd.


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Update 12/27/2012*

It's been nearly 3 weeks since I've had the car back, and I can confidently say that the car runs great, with only 1 ½ issues remaining. Especially when it's damp and / or cold, the car struggles briefly @ start and hesitates a bit @ first. Once it's warmed up it feels much better. The explanation I got is the car runs on the lean side when initially @ idle (also @ cruise). The AFR gauge confirms this. 

 So no CELs, no fans running, gets & holds boost, smooth power band. All n' all it's very nice.

Back to running tad lean... one side benefit is the car gets crazy MPG commuting on cruise @ 60 MPH. Even @ 38 F with little wind, car consistently gets between 42-47 MPG on 90 mile trip. I've tracked all MFI metrics and the old-fashioned method, and it's accurate. Note: It also helps that I'm on much narrower (winter) tires versus my wide performance tires. When you want to let loose, AFR appears normal.

 So all this means you get the best of both worlds: lot's of fun on boost and great mileage on cruise.

This is likely my last update on this thread. It's been a long and involved project, and I'm glad it's done. 

Hope everyone learned something, and enjoyed the trip. See you around.

Peace.

-Chris


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

Does your cruise control work?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

TrillyPop said:


> Does your cruise control work?


It looks.like.it does...

As per it being lean... I haven't noticed it so... But I have noticed a random struggle to get off the line... Sometimes.its perfect smooth.. but somethimes it just struggles.

I am waiting.to see if its my driving or my ecu... But I do think its my driving.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## dubkid91 (Jan 19, 2012)

So awesome! :thumbup:


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Long Term Update 03/30/2013*

Thought to offer a long-term update for those interested.

 GOOD NEWS



 Car flies with zero hesitation and very smooth acceleration
 Wicked fun to drive, solid, awesome handling, smooth & sounds nice
 Average MPG ~ 42 highway, and that's consistent
 Worst MPG = 38.5 highway (35 MPH head wind)
 Best MPG = 47.8 highway(when temps and wind are right)


 BAD NEWS



 It really hates winter now. Have to let it warm up ~ 5 min or it bucks nasty.


Overall it's a very, very nice car. Short of a Golf GTD (which we don't get in US), how often can you find a car that gets 42 MPG, flies @ 280 wHP, handles beautifully, and has top amenities in its class?

This car is it my friends 

Next month we're upgrading the diff by swapping out final drive pinion and ring gear. This will lengthen all gears and (hopefully) utilize each gear to its fullest potential. (1st gear blows.) Also upgrading to Southbend Stage 2 Endurance clutch.

Safe driving.

-Chris


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

wow... great mpgs!
those long gears on the mk6 are awesome!

try using thinner oil, it could help a little


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## vrsick147 (Jun 18, 2007)

nice


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*FWIW: 3 New Videos ...*

ic: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT2zgvlMZPjsUSS_6i8hVgg


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