# 8v throttle body upgrade?



## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

8v jh 88 cabby, wondering if there is a upgraded throttle body for this 8v and if so which cars would i pull them out of and how simple would it be just bolt on and go? or would i have to fab or change anything up?
thanks a bunch, just lookin for some simple upgrades and im pretty sure every single thing is wrong on my throttle body, i.e. missing bolts and hardwarde, stretched throttle cable and on and on with stuff i dont know thats wrong with it. ha full throttle for me has only been 25% because of either the cable stretch or some sort of stretch from the pedal to the throttle body. haha weeee i at least want to be able to floor it and actually be flooring it.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

I'm pretty sure your Cabriolet has the smaller Mk1 type throttle body. My wife had an '88 and it had the small one.
You have a couple of options:
Buy a Neuspeed "upgrade" throttle body, which is essentially a Mk2 TB with the correct linkages to work with the Mk1 cable (and direction of pull)
You could source a Mk2 throttle body, and swap over your Mk1 linkages. It's not hard, but takes a little time to do.
You could source an Audi 5000 throttle body, or one from a Digifant II VW Fox (don't use a CIS Fox TB). These both have the correct directon of pull for the Mk1 throttle cable. You might need to swap one piece of your existing Mk1 linkage onto it, but it's obvious once you see it. You also may need to mess with the vacuum and Idle hoses, as these sometimes have more or less nipples than your Mk1 TB. (Not a big deal if you have a few hoses and fittings laying around).
These first three require that you use an adapter plate between the throttle body and intake manifold (which kind-of negates the purpose of the larger throttle body). Or, you could use a dremel (die grinder) and open up the throttle body hole to allow the larger butterfly to open fully. In my opinion, this is the right way to do it.
The other option is to buy a Weber "Big Bore" throttle body, with the Redline adapter plate (You'll usually find people selling it with both parts already bolted together). Now, it's just my opinion, but I'm not a fan of the Weber TB with adapter. I had one and was not impressed with several aspects...
So that's pretty much it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Shameless Plug: I happen to have one or two of the VW Fox and Audi 5000 Throttle Bodies laying around. I'd be happy to sell you one for $15 plus shippnig. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*

Another shameless Plug:
If you've got the money, buy one of NY_Fam 's Stage I Ported Intakes. He balances the flow of all the runners, and will also open up the throttle body flange to mate with the larger throttle body.
IIRC, it's a proven ~6 HP gain to the wheels, which is a good bang for the buck. Put on a good flowing exhaust system, Good air filter, and larger camshaft, and the little underdog 8v will be a lot of fun to drive. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*

If i used one of three TB from the audi the fox or the MK2 which one would you think would be the easiest if the performance is the same? Also as far as opening up my TB with a dremel are you talkin about on my stock TB or on one of these others so I wouldnt need to get an adapter? And if that were the case wouldnt I be opening up the intake manifold not the TB?
I really appreciate you help, I probably will go with one from other vw's not mess with the weber or pay for a neuspeed "upgrade" as you call it if i could just get it off a mk2 and figure out the linkages.
I need to start lookin at pictures of all of these to figure out what im talking about. ha
i appreciate it though and i possibly will be getting one of your TB from you.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*

i might be interested in your motor mounts also, if thats one of the pictures i saw on photobucket. if you have pcitures of your TB that arent digi fox post em up so i can take a look at them.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

Sorry, I re-read my post above and I wrote that a bit confusing...
Yes, you would have to grind the flange on the intake manifold, and make that hole larger. 
The performance between the Audi, VW Fox, and Neuspeed will be the same. The only differences that I recall are a couple of vacuum fittings are in different spots, and one of them has a large fitting for the Idle bypass.
They will all pull from the correct direction (except for the Mk2, which would need to have some linkage parts swapped over). The differences in the linkage are that some of them use a different throttle cable "clip" at the end. I'll see if I can get some good pictures up to show the difference. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*

thanks man that sounds good. i might just go with one from the audi 5000 or the fox then. problem is i dont have a dremel, but if i got my hands on one thats pretty manageable right? or possibly my buddy that has one could help.... hmmm


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

It's not hard to grind the hole larger. Just stuff a rag, or some play-doh in there so you don't get shavings in the intake, that would be terrible. 
Here's a few pictures I took:
This is the adapter plate to run a larger VW/Audi throttle body on an unmodified Mk1 intake manifold. Notice that the adapter simply takes the larger bore, and tapers it down to the smaller Mk1 size. I personally feel this is a band-aid way of doing things. You aren't going to see much of any gains by using this type of adapter.








Here are the two types of linkages I know of. The right one is typical Mk1 style. The left one is typical of Mk2's and Audi's.









Here's a throttle body that I think I pulled from a Digifant VW Fox. (I'm not sure anymore...) Note, this has a throttle linkage that will work with both types of cable:









And here's a rare-ish throttle body. It came from a California Digifant I Fox, and has a throttle position sensor. It also has both style linkages.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*

thanks for those pics man, i can def see the reason for opting out of getting the adapter and just boring yourself. next time i go to the junkyard im gonna see what i can find, if there isnt one i want i will prob buy one of those off of ya.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

Ill put a shameless plug in for going with http://www.scientificrabbit.com for an intake mani. I have one of his stage three manis and love it. plus then you dont have to bore out the mani it's allready done and your getting better flow out of the mani too.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (MKIGTITDI)*

You must have missed my "shameless plug" earlier.








NY_Fam does nice work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jettaboy1884* »_You must have missed my "shameless plug" earlier.








NY_Fam does nice work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I saw it i was just giving another to try to get the point across! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (MKIGTITDI)*

i would be more willing to buy an already ported intake but i dont want to spend money, boring one out myself is free, weeee. if i could find a later model dub or something that had a higher flowing intake mani that would allow for a larger butterfly than i would be willing for that too cause i can get it from a junkyard for pennies. 
that being said i bookmarked scientific rabbit and appreciate the shameless plugs always.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

oh and how do i know i have the mk1 TB? on scientific rabbit it describes the mk2 TB as the one on the passenger side that sits over the exhaust which is where mine is??


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## corradoken (Jan 19, 2003)

*Re: (g3mccotter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g3mccotter* »_thanks a bunch, just lookin for some simple upgrades and im pretty sure every single thing is wrong on my throttle body, i.e. missing bolts and hardwarde, stretched throttle cable and on and on with stuff i dont know thats wrong with it. ha full throttle for me has only been 25% because of either the cable stretch or some sort of stretch from the pedal to the throttle body. 

I would think a good start if looking for simple performance upgrades would be to replace the throttle cable and hardware. If you're only getting 25% throttle because of a stretched cable, the solution isn't to put on a throttle body that's four times bigger. Not that I'm implying that that's what you're attempting, but it's the place you should start. Much more affordable, and needs to be done anyways to get the benefits you seek from a larger throttle body.
Oh, and the throttle body on all Cabriolets should be the MK1 style, if I recall correctly. Both intake manifolds should be above the exhaust manifold, on the back of the cylinder head. MK1 had the throttle body on the driver's side, more towards the middle of the engine bay. MK2 had it on the passenger side, closer to the timing belt/drive belts etc.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: (corradoken)*

yea your right, i have been tryin to figure out what im missing and what linkages are stretched and what not. i really dont need a new TB like you said but its one of those upgrades i could get from a junkyard car and somewhat simple... i have everyones favorite header the pacesetter and custom pipes to stock muffler which i will be changing to maybe a borla muffler after i replace my motor mounts







or do inserts i dont know, been readin about that and it seems to replace the passenger side front mount is ridiculous having to pull your timing belt and everything AHH... so i dont know but i was reading there is not as much gain or reason for a bored intake mani and bigger TB if you dont have a header. so i got all excited i already had something that was recommended, and yes the best something EVER.


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## Eric D (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

Another option is the Weber/ Redline single plate throttle body.
I had one back in the 80's.
You can search the classifieds or your local junkyards.
Don't forget to look at the 924 Porsche as they also used this TB as an upgrade.
Make sure to get the adapter plate.
Here is an older link with pics.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4140885
Here is a link where the owner gasket matches his intake and Redline adapter.
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.a...38095


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Eric D)*

Regarding the throttle cable: Even if stretched, there should be a clip to adjust tension of the cable. Have a friend help, or put a brick on the gas pedal (when the car's off, obviously) to see if the throttle is opening up all the way. Set the tension on the cable so that the throttle body is WOT when the pedal just starts to touch the little plastic stub in the foot well. That stub can adjust in or out a bit, so you don't stretch/snap the cable when you get a heavy foot. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You mentioned a stock manifold that could accept the larger throttle body: You could certainly use a Digifant II VW Fox manifold. It's the same style as Mk1. You could also use a G60 intake manifold from a Corrado, but I recall that NY_Fam's testing showed that the G60 manifold has a very bad flow imbalance between runners.
I know of a Digifant Fox in a junkyard near me, and I believe it still has the manifold on it. I'll grab it if you want. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Eric D)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Eric D* »_Another option is the Weber/ Redline single plate throttle body.
I had one back in the 80's.
You can search the classifieds or your local junkyards.
Don't forget to look at the 924 Porsche as they also used this TB as an upgrade.
Make sure to get the adapter plate.


I remember having this discussion with ny_fam from scientific rabbit a while back and the conclusion was that the weber is not an upgrade. At full throttle the mk2 TB flows more cfm than the weber..


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (TheMajic86GTI)*

That's good to know. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm not a fan of the Weber/Redline for a few reasons (JMHO):
Going from a round bore to the VW "oval" in such a short distance really makes for a rough transition. The Redline adapter does this as smoothly as possible given the space constraints, but it's still pretty harsh.
When looking at the throttle body itself, it's so painfully obvious that it was a single model casting, intended to be used on many different cars. There are tons of un-tapped bungs, flanges, nipples, etc. It just gives it a generic feel, and it appears cluttered and complex.
I've read that the throttle response has a very "On/Off" feel. The VW throttle body is designed well for part-throttle driving. The Weber takes a much more sensitive foot to control.
I bought one, and was unimpressed, so I sold it and broke even. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jettaboy1884* »_I've read that the throttle response has a very "On/Off" feel. The VW throttle body is designed well for part-throttle driving. The Weber takes a much more sensitive foot to control.

Yeah the VW TB is better in the fact that its progressive cuz of the 2 butterflies...The weber is kinda like its on all the time making it harder for low and mid range driving giving u the false impression that it is "faster"when really its not...
If u want that feel all u have to do is secure both butterflies(to get rid of the progressiveness) with a zip tie or wire on the mk2 Tb and u got the same feeling but with better flow..I use to run it this way when my car was turbo... Great for WOT but drivability around town sucked ars some times...


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*

thanks for all the insight guys wow this is sick. alright i will prob just try and find a fox haha that seems to be what i need which im sure i can find one around here. if i did happened upon a TB and intake mani from a fox it would pretty much be straight swappable? i imagine i would replace possibly a gasket or two if there on there. which year fox's came with digi II? is that right? i wouldnt have to bore anything out cause the TB and intake mani would be from the same engine. 
regarding my stretching cable... i need to find whatever bump stop piece you were talkin about in my foot well, because i have already tested it and floored is about 25% haha. so im guessing i either need to move whatever is in my foot well that is prohibiting me from going further or somehow mount my pedal maybe higher so i can push it down further or possibly my pedal is bent??? all i know is im excited to drive it once i figure out how to actually floor it ha.


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## corradoken (Jan 19, 2003)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

The bump stop is a small plastic post mounted in the floor under the gas pedal. It limits the accelerator to the point where the throttle is wide open. If it weren't there, then when you'd floor it, the throttle would stop at it's maximum, and the accelerator would still go to the floor. The cable would take up the slack, and either stretch or break. If yours is missing, that could be the reason your cable stretched in the first place. If it is still there, don't remove it in attempt to get more throttle. Again, it would be the improper solution, and still not as effective as replacing the cable.
By the way, do you have an automatic or a manual transmission? If you have an automatic, then you actually have two cables, one from the pedal to the transmission, then from the transmission to the throttle body. If I remember, the cable from the transmission to the throttle is extremely expensive. I know the dealer asks for around $260 for it, and don't recall any aftermarket prices. Hopefully, that's not the one giving you any problem, if you have an automatic. The other cables are more reasonably priced, and just a mild pain in the ass to replace, at least in my experiences.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

no i have a manual, i know it is all hard to access down there with the firewall and everything. i might try and see if i can adjust my bump deal so it will allow more gas pedal. if i just tighten up the cable then my idle climbs ya know... so its gotta be with the pedal or the cable going through the firewall that the pedal connects to


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## corradoken (Jan 19, 2003)

*Re: (g3mccotter)*

Again, if you remove the pedal limiter, you run the risk of stretching the cable, especially if it isn't stretched currently. Be very cautious doing this. For the life of me, I can't remember if the stop is adjustable. I seem to recall it being a more permanent fixture, but maybe just the cars I've worked on they were stuck or broken somehow. Either way, if it is adjustable, it's most likely that way so the factory could set it properly, and then it's not meant to be changed again, much like the idle screws for the CIS cars. The factory sets it, and you should never need to change it, unless you changed something else. Adjusting a factory set item like this is often the wrong fix for the right problem. More than likely, it will not achieve the desired result, and probably will just make the problem worse.
You shouldn't be thinking of the pedal stop as an item put in place by the factory just to limit the performance of the car. It still allows the throttle to open 100%, so it's not a limiter. It prevents the cable from getting stretched. If you're only getting 25% throttle, I'll guarantee it's not because of the pedal stop being improperly adjusted. There's no way it would come out far enough to take up 75% of the pedal travel. You'd notice, because the pedal wouldn't come anywhere close to hitting the floor. More than likely, the cable is stretched, or it is not properly secured in it's brackets, meaning the whole cable and sheath move when you hit the pedal, rather than just the cable inside.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: (corradoken)*

yea i agree everything was tuned from the factory properly. im sure this has been changed along with almost everything in my car since it came outta the factory. i just put bolts in my throttle and vacuum bracket thing for my throttle because they rattle out always so yea ha it has been changed quite a bit you could say. i dont know if it is or not but jettaboy was saying it was so i need to look into that. the pedal has hardly any travel ya know, and its sticky feeling which is probably cable sometimes its either like on or off theres not play in it and any bit you give it its hard to be smooth it gets kinda stuck all over. im not tryin to get more performance, im trying to get what it was meant from the factory for now, pretty sure they would not have put a full throttle little relay deal on the TB if it was impossible for you to ever get to it or even close. i believe its a fuel enrichment possibly? not sure but i know thats WOT for my car and i know im not close to it...


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## corradoken (Jan 19, 2003)

*Re: (g3mccotter)*

I hear ya, it's bad when you don't know what has been done to a car you bought, and don't have anything to compare it to in order to check if it's right. You say the pedal has very little travel? Is the pedal high, like a normal height you'd see for a pedal, and only travels a small amount? Or is the pedal near the floor already, and that's why it doesn't go far?


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: (corradoken)*

alright so i finally got under there to take a good look, which is very uncomfortable by the way. well fist, the top of my pedal used to pop off my cable while i was driving so i would have to reach up there and jam it back in that bushing like thing. i was reading on cabby info about problems with throttle cable and what not and they mentioned this little bushing that gets worn out or a PO would have a rigged like bolt in there or something. first of all i checked my TB to see just how much it was opening and where for the amount of pedal. haha my cabby i have thought was kinda quick but.... with me being WOT was only opening 1/2 of the smaller butterfly flap on my TB not my larger one at all. ha my gosh so annoying i did not have this taken care of. cant wait to actually be able to get on it.... i also think i need to bend my cable that links to the pedal because its bending out a little bit instead of 90 degree or maybe even pointed in a little bit. i figure i could just bend that with a pair of pliers hopefully... 

i will keep it posted how it goes, also i did find a little nub that the pedal hits i dont believe its adjustable but i didnt really try, once i saw that bushing thats in the pedal that has the throttle cable goes into was all torn to bits i lost interest in that nub. wish i had picture of this bushing, when i would floor it my cable will slide through half the bushing that had a huge slit in it, with that and the cable been bent i think those two things should square me away...

any thoughts or suggestions??
thank you all


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: (g3mccotter)*

Glad to hear you got to check it out and get a feel for what's what.
I'm pretty sure you can buy that cable bushing from the dealer(the one that goes in the top of the gas pedal). I bought one a few years ago, when I saw mine was trashed up, much like yours.
You can bend the "J" part of the throttle cable, and it will help keep it from pulling out of that bushing as often. Replacing that bushing will also help a ton.
From all these issues you are mentioning, it sounds like you should just buy a new throttle cable. It will give you peace of mind that it's not binding up internally, and the ends are new and not bent or fragile.
Have you checked your throttle body itself, and work the linkage with your hand to see that it's not so gunked up that it's binding?


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: (Jettaboy1884)*

yea i have played with my TB thats how i could tell how much my butterfly flaps were opening. it seems pretty hard to pull my throttle to WOT from under the hood but i was thinkin it might just because there is no leverage? or maybe those springs that look rusted are all worn out or actually rusted, i sprayed some wd 40 on the spring area and it did not help at all. i am going to try and get that bushing from car quest i believe is what it is tomorrow. i think they will have to order it so i will wait till monday at least and with that in see if it will open me up all the way when im floored. if not i will probably bend my throttle cable a bit if i can and if that doesnt bend or if it does and does not help probably just replace my throttle cable from the pedal or possibly the one on the throttle body that seems to be more worn. from what i can see the cable coming off the top of the pedal is just a metal j hook bar and the throttle cable that is actually on the TB is like coiled up maybe and has the plastic wrap around it which is worn off somewhat so it seems it would be more likely to stretch.


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## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (g3mccotter)*

or the nuts on the each of the throttle body shafts are to tight. If they are to tight it will make opening the throttle plates difficult.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

im not sure what nuts your talkin about..? car quest does not have the bushing i am lookin for i might pull one from the junkyard but im scared i will break it when pulling it out. does anyone have an extra one or one they could pull from a car properly?


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## johnnysGTIs (Jan 19, 2009)

Not to hijack but just curious why VW went to single plate TBs after the MK2s ?


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: (johnnysGTIs)*

maybe because the ecu changed from cis and got more sophisticated, not too sure. from what ive heard the dual butterfly is so its more progressive which helps promote a smoother ride not just on or off like a porsche. but i dont know thats just me guessing, whats the answer?


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## Twinrocco's (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*

This post is very helpful to me as well. Question, I have a neuspeed tb mated to a fox man. Does the intake need to be ground out as well? Also do I need to hook up a full throttle swicth My car is an 8v cis 1984 Scirocco . The black wheels will they fit my car with the upgraded rear disk brakes from Autotech.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Twinrocco's)*

i dont really know man, maybe jettaboy will comment in, pretty sure what he says further up is that the neuspeed upgrade is just the mk2 with compatible parts and possibly an adapter so it should be fine?? as far as full throttle switch and bigger brake i have no clue


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

The Neuspeed is essentially a Mk2 throttle body, with the correct linkages for Mk1.
So, if you are running it on a manifold from a Digifant II VW Fox, then there is no need to grind out the throttle body hole on the manifold, and there's no need to run the adapter (Because the Digifant II Foxes came with the larger throttle body as OEM).
If you're running the Neuspeed on a standard Mk1 manifold or a CIS equipped VW Fox manifold, then you will need to grind the opening, or use the adapter.
Not that anyone asked specifically, but here's a question which I do not know the answer to: Did later generation Scirocco's (with the 1.8L 8v) come with the smaller throttle body, or the larger one? I have no idea, but would like to find out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*

The 90-92 cabirolet is the only mk1 that I know of that came with the larger TB.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Twinrocco's)*

Just an FYI: http://www.GermanAutoParts.com does carry that throttle cable bushing. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *Twinrocco’s* »_...Also do I need to hook up a full throttle swicth My car is an 8v cis 1984 Scirocco . The black wheels will they fit my car with the upgraded rear disk brakes from Autotech.

If your CIS doesn't already have a WOT switch, there is no need to add one when putting on the larger throttle body.
I'm not exactly sure what the WOT switch does (I understand the concept, but not sure how it specifically changes fueling) If you have any questions about that, I'd suggest you send a PM to Holden McNeil Or NY_Fam as they are more knowledgeable with CIS.
Regarding the wheels: If you're talking about the black wheels I have for sale, send me a PM to discuss them so we can keep the thread on-track. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*

thanks jettaboy, i ordered that bushing so now we will see if my throttle cable needs to be replaced also cause it is on the tightest rung....
* this is just a heads up i doubt anyone is as stupid as me on this but if you have not checked too see if your pedal to the floor is really WOT by physically lookin at your TB and seeing if both or one butterflies opens all the way, DO IT NOW! ha you could be putting money into aftermarket parts and dont even have the throttle thats already there. just a heads up if anyone is as incoherent about there car as me.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

i got the pedal bushing from the german auto parts and it is has a far lower durameter, or its a lot more flexible and squishy like a sponge as apposed to my oem one that i pulled outt my car that is like hard rubber... whats the deal does anyone know how these looked originally? the one i got from GAP has tiny holes and is the same size lip on both sides and very squishy. the oem one i pulled from the car looked as if it had one side with a bigger lip and one side smaller, the hole is at least twice the size and i was thinkin just because its worn out but this bushing seems like it wont hold or for very long..... 

what should i do?


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

its trash, i didnt know quite how the stiffness was going to affect it and the size of the hole being smaller. installed, which is a lot easier which is nice but right when i put pressure on the pedal it pulls the bushing right out of the pedal because of how soft it is and the rigidity is just none existent. 

i am waitin to hear a response from GAP. how do they even have this for sale have they ever sold one? cause first person that bought it should have been able to tell them it doesnt work....
anyone know where i can get an oem one? if GAP is not responsive


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

u pull and pay junkyard here would total about $55 for intake manifold and TB from a 93 fox. that set up would bolt up with my 88 cabby right??? and anyone have a cheaper one for sale or know of a junkyard near them that is cheaper???


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

I saw a Digifant II fox at the pick-n-pull junkyard near me.
I'll be paying them a visit in the next week or two, and I'll ask them how much (if it's still on the car) they would charge for it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g3mccotter* »_its trash, i didnt know quite how the stiffness was going to affect it and the size of the hole being smaller. installed, which is a lot easier which is nice but right when i put pressure on the pedal it pulls the bushing right out of the pedal because of how soft it is and the rigidity is just none existent. 

i am waitin to hear a response from GAP. how do they even have this for sale have they ever sold one? cause first person that bought it should have been able to tell them it doesnt work....
anyone know where i can get an oem one? if GAP is not responsive 

That sucks... It shouldn't be pulling out of the pedal.
I bought a new one from the VW dealer. I think it was less than $10, and I recall that even though it was softer than an old one, it took a fair amount of effort to get it pressed into the pedal hole. And, the throttle cable "J" was a really good fit.
The new one should be softer than an old one, so I wouldn't worry about that. I think the lips on both edges are the same. That's what should keep it from falling out.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*

hey thanks for checking your junkyard thats awesome of ya.. as far as this bushing yea its nice its softer easier to get in but the lips on the side are smaller half as thin and as soft as the rest of it so it doesnt get any pull on the cable before it pops out.... i think it might also be because it is really hard to pull my cable, maybe a little to hard, would that mean possibly greasing up that spring on my TB? or what? as far as replacing the throttle cable i found all kinds at the junkyard that looked like mine, but the length looked a little shorter. if its the same throttle cable do you think one would be shorter than another? i think they were in like 92 golf maybe and a 89 jetta... not exactly sure but they looked the same as mine....


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

alright so i decided to try the GAP bushing again and put it in from the far side to make sure the lip catches properly. i also notice that my pedal was actually bent toward the passenger side from trying to get my old bushing in yesterday, so i bent that over and maybe a little passed my j hook so it held better. put the bushing in and it holds.... i do still think my cable is too hard to pull and when you let all the way off the throttle it doesnt snap back up like it should it kinda just slowly comes back... im guessin thats my spring on the TB wd-40? or would i need to grease it after i sprayed it with that?


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

Yeah, you should make sure the throttle linkage, and the cable are free moving. Sounds like one or both of those are sticky. WD-40 is ok, but if you can, get a can of PB-Blaster. It's heavier than WD-40 and works great. Spray and work it into the linkage, don't go nuts though. Maybe work some into the throttle cable.
Your throttle cable is longer, because it comes from the firewall, and has to make a 180 degree turn to face the throttle body. On Mk2's, it doesn't make as much of a turn, so it's shorter.


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## Twinrocco's (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*

Getting back to Jettaboy about the 1.8v Scirocco TB. The old TB in the swaped out parts box IS smaller. The Chilton does not recornize the 8vs Scirocco engine 87 88 MY engine is from 87 swap to the 84 wolfs-scirocco. JH motor 9a trans.Thanks for the info, Iam goinging to check-out which Fox manifold is in this Frankenstien Project.


_Modified by Twinrocco's at 6:14 AM 3-6-2010_


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*

alright, i think i might have found a fox TB from a local vortexer but i dont believe he has the intake mani from the fox he said he has a cis one i think so im guessing its the same as what i got. anyways new throttle linkage will help and then i guess i will have to dremel out however much out of my stock intake mani to give room for the butterflys correct? is there any more i should smooth or take out while im in there? 
i guess i will just try and find my throttle cable at the junkyard that looks the same and long enough. any trick to removing? like is it the easiest to just feed the j hook through the firewall?? as far as that bushing its in my pedal is bent a bit and my j hook i had to bend because it looked for like an L hook... haha slowly am i getting to full throttle, drove it yesterday with the new bushing and everything bent properly i guess haha and it was a lot more fun wow. cant wait to get her all the way open..


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## johnnysGTIs (Jan 19, 2009)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

There is a Fox intake manifold on ebay for $30.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (johnnysGTIs)*

thats about the same price as from the junkyard...


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

got a fox TB from foxstracing yesterday, might start playing around with it today.... prob gonna have to cruise over to my buddies to use his dremel and such for my intake mani.. and i guess stop by the store for some new gaskets.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Twinrocco's)*

where can i get a rubber throttle body gasket online? i know GAP has one but i believe its paper.


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## NAVI51 (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jettaboy1884* »_









Believe it or not, I have found a really cheap and good upgrade with just a black nylon tie and the stock TB.
On the picture right above, you will see a little screw and the plate right infront of the springs, those pieces are right below the black piece where the cable runs through, get a tie and atach both pieces the screw and the plate, you will see that both pieces of the buttefly will open at the exact same time instead of the small one first and then the big one http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (NAVI51)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NAVI51* »_Believe it or not, I have found a really cheap and good upgrade with just a black nylon tie and the stock TB.
On the picture right above, you will see a little screw and the plate right infront of the springs, those pieces are right below the black piece where the cable runs through, get a tie and atach both pieces the screw and the plate, you will see that both pieces of the buttefly will open at the exact same time instead of the small one first and then the big one http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I posted this earlier...lol









_Quote, originally posted by *TheMajic86GTI* »_If u want that feel all u have to do is secure both butterflies(to get rid of the progressiveness) with a zip tie or wire on the mk2 Tb and u got the same feeling but with better flow..I use to run it this way when my car was turbo... Great for WOT but drivability around town sucked ars some times...


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (TheMajic86GTI)*

yea he did post that earlier, thanks though... do you really like it? i think i agree with themajic on this one its nice to have a progressive throttle response if i want it WOT then i will floor it, theres no reason for the larger butterfly to be open if i am half throttle, also would that make it less fuel efficient if they were both opening? i want to get the TB gasket and intake mani but i am trying to figure out where i can get a rubber one so i dont have to replace it ever again.... anyone know?


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

nevermind, just went ahead and got the paper ones i believe from GAP


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

I don't recall ever seeing rubber throttle body gaskets. The paper-ish one does just fine. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

alright gaskets came in, ( TB and intake mani). the TB gasket i got is for the fox TB im putting on, therefore a tiny bit larger but i just got the gasket for my size intake mani will that be larger than my intake mani allowing me to gasket match? or port out the mani on the head side or will it be just the same size as the mani is right now? follow??/ i wasnt thinkin i needed to get a larger gasket for some reason and even if so i dont know which i would have gotten, the fox digi mani gasket???
prob start porting this thing out after i get these two motor mounts in.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

im guessing this is a stupid question because no response ?


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

Sorry for the lack of a response. Honestly, I'm not sure what you're going to find (regarding gasket size) when you dismantle your existing setup, and get it ready to put the parts on.
Even if the gasket hole is a little small, you can carefully remove some material with a razor blade.
The outside dimensions of the gasket should be the same though. And, you could have bought a Digifant II Fox gasket, or I bet any of the Mk2 gaskets would be the right size.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Jettaboy1884)*

alright i got the fox gasket, now the question is would it be alright to port some out of TB on the side going into the intake mani?


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

cant get my 4 hex screws off my TB, are they reversed threaded? pb blasted and everything...


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## dogyouare (Aug 10, 2009)

no its not rt.
use like a braker bar mine was a bitch..


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: (dogyouare)*

They're threaded normally.
Give each of the heads a decent tap/whack with a hammer. It sometimes helps unstick the threads, and work the PB Blaster in a bit.
Make sure you use the right size allen key, and use a breaker bar to get some leverage. They're always a pain to break loose.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: (Jettaboy1884)*

alright i will try those things... side not i have about 75% open of my butterfly valve on WOT and it feels nicceee. cant wait for that last 25% its the majority of the travel for the larger valve.


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: (g3mccotter)*

alright finally got to my TB. on my original TB there is a full throttle relay switch that get triggered when WOT on the TB. not sure if i need it or what exactly it does, haha since i have never been able to even get to that little switch and had a WOT i dont know what it does i guess. anyways on the fox TB there is something else mounted where that is and there is a female end and wire going to the bottom of the TB. i cant take off that and mount my little relay but i think i would have to take it all apart to rewire it maybe.... do i need it? and on the fox TB i am putting on will it be fine that nothing is plugged into this female end??? sorry i dont have pictures... tryin to get this done tomorrow right after i port my mani so quick help would be appreciated








here you can see what i have been doing http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4786393


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## JGWarner (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (Twinrocco's)*

And speaking of the wide open throttle switch...
I bought a big throttle body with a WOT switch but I'm confused- shouldn't it activate when the throttle is all the way open? this looks like a button is held down at full closed, then lets go the instant you touch the throttle. Is there a potentiometer out of sight somewhere?








This is swapped over for a Fox so I guess I'm worried the linkage was put together wrong in the swap.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (JGWarner)*

Their should be 2 switches..The one when closed is used for the idle air stabilizer and when open(around 3500-4000rpm depending on where u set it) enriches the fuel system


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (TheMajic86GTI)*

so got the TB swapped over with some issues that im wondering if people have figured out. 
first is since my original TB did not have the switch that triggers when the throttle is just getting touched it only had the fuel enrichment switch at WOT. so i deleted the switch on the fox TB that i never had on mine and now i am trying to figure out how to get the fuel enrichment switch to work.... put my WOT switch and mounted in place of the switch that was originally on the fox TB but on my original it has a little bar like thing that hits the switch when WOT and on the fox TB its just a flat piece of metal that goes right under the switch and doesnt engage it. i was thinkin of shaving of the one side of the metal and putting a nut and bolt through the other with a few large washers that would hopefully trigger it when WOT. anyone know or have done this?
secondly is my original TB had cruise control which i like and want to keep, cruise control consists of that rod coming into the area that pivots when you open up the throttle, when the rod is pulling on it its supposed to hold the throttle and thats cruise. i might be able to take apart the springs and dive into that and try and fit my little metal piece with a hole in it and put it back together but i was wondering if there is an easier way or what other people did??? i will search more for this but i dont know i would like the fuel enrichment and cruise control if thats possible... 
besides that i feel the difference, after porting out the intake mani a bit and throwing on the TB it feels a little quicker, i need to cap another vacuum outlet that was on the TB so we will see.... 
any help or advice or direction would be rad, even if its wrong so i know what not to do... haha


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## JGWarner (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

A close up photo of each of these switches would help immensely. I can't see/identify the WOT switch, just the one that releases when the throttle is barely opened- which sounds loike it's for an idle stabilizer. Could this mean I do not have a WOT switch?







I got suckered!


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (JGWarner)*

i dont know i dont think they all came with it. fox's didnt i dont believe because the the TB i got from a fox doesnt have it...


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## JGWarner (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (g3mccotter)*

This is setup for a fox/mk1 linkage, but I don't think this came off a fox. IIRC the only fox that had any sensor on the TB was the CA model, and that was just a switch to help activate the ISV. All other foxes had just an idle boost valve (way lower tech).


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## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 8v throttle body upgrade? (JGWarner)*

alright im gonna try and transfer over my little metal arm that triggers my full throttle enrichment and my cruise control arm, as far as the full throttle deal i dont know how to get the fox TB white plastic thing off... anyone??
also with my throttle im still not quite 100% prob about 90%, understand? if i have the throttle cable tight to the point of being able to get full throttle its holding my butterfly valve open and keeping my car revved at about 4 grand... so the idle screw does not change that at all right? my pedal is just about as bent as it can be without pointing straight out toward me in the driver seat, so i believe i have enough pedal play now what?? also for no reason with my new TB it has been idling at 2 grand and i am hoping it is this wire that broke thats headed into the back of the intake mani that has a vacuum line running from it to just before the TB in the intake boot. anyone think fixing that wire will fix my idle? kinda like a vacuum leak i was hoping? because when the engine is cool it idles around a grand and then after i drive it holds around 2 grand....


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## Grig85 (Feb 11, 2006)

I gotta get that.


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