# No spark. Need wiring advice (MSD)



## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

Well I let my car sit for a while (it used to start) and I wanted to start it one day just to run and tried to turn it over and it wasnt giving any spark. I followed msd's routine for testing spark (pull white wire and coil wire at distributor, touch white wire to ground and there is spark). So MSD is giving spark so I dont know why its not giving spark to any of the 4 plugs upon startup. 

However for some reason Im only getting 10.5 volts to the outside wires on the hall sender plug and cant understand why. I checked all my connections and they seemed fine. Im following big caddy's wiring diagram and am running a MSD 6530 programmable, which is the same as a 6al2 and a 8980 timing computer.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

i thought you took this to a shop to have them get it running for ya


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

candm said:


> i thought you took this to a shop to have them get it running for ya


i did. It was sitting for about 2 weeks waiting for brake parts. I called the shop back and he said he thought it sounded like distributor\hall sender. He put a different used distributor on it since the original one was leaking. Makes sense but Id like to figure out how to diagnose or pin point the problem first before I take it back up to him since its sort of a haul there.

I also just tried 2 other ICM's with no luck


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

i never went with a distributor on my setup. went with an electromotive crank triggered ignition. im sure it is something simple. just keep plugging away at it


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

hmmm, i guess i can see why now:banghead:

msd is getting 12 volts from my switched source. #4 pin on the ICM connector is getting 12 volts from the msd, but when the icm plugged in the hall sender is getting 10.5 volts, thats with all 3 ICM's also


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

your voltage at the hall should FLUCTUATE between at least 2 and 0 as you spin the dizzy. At 10.5 your hall sounds fine. confused?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

It's supposed to fluctuate on the middle trigger wire right?


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

positive to terminal 6 and negative to terminal 3 at ICU


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

got a different distributor and still not giving any spark, I really dont know what this could be ive checked all grounds, I could possible try a new coil but wouldnt that msd spark test rule out the coil? the spark plugs are for sure black but even if they were fouled they would still spark right even after cleaning?


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

start with some new plugs. if it doesnt fire, get a different coil. you would think that they are either good or bad, but years ago, i had a problem with a car runnin somewhat ok and then not. it was the coil. they can run somewhat intermittent


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

are you using a new icm?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Why are you using an ICM and the MSD? You shouldn't need the ICM when using the MSD.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ps2375 said:


> Why are you using an ICM and the MSD? You shouldn't need the ICM when using the MSD.


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

if you are using a new icm as sold by grp, the "HUGO" unit, it is different from the original in that it also needs to be grounded through the integral base. Notice the grounding ear around one of the mounting holes. The original mounting plate on a a1 gti is NOT grounded. It is mounted through two plastic and one rubber mount and has no contact with body metal. If you ground the unit, you should have spark. good luck.:beer:


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

VenaGTi said:


> if you are using a new icm as sold by grp, the "HUGO" unit, it is different from the original in that it also needs to be grounded through the integral base. Notice the grounding ear around one of the mounting holes. The original mounting plate on a a1 gti is NOT grounded. It is mounted through two plastic and one rubber mount and has no contact with body metal. If you ground the unit, you should have spark. good luck.:beer:


 I don't have any of the new ones. I have 3 units all from various mk2's. The way the shop mounted it was straight metal to metal in the rain tray I guess I could put something nonconductive between the icm and the body. The ground for it (I believe its pin 2 ,its not in front of me now so I can't recall) is clean and bolted down good. I swear if I don't get this sorted out soon I'm ditching msd and my distributor and going megajolt. Should have done that in the first place


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

you have verified that the msd fires and you blame it for no spark? wha? yeah, pin 2 is ground. but the new icms need body ground as well. almost shot the car figuring that one out. so lets see, you know the msd is firing, yes? so now, get the spark through the coil to a plug. connect everything except white trigger wire for msd. Line up your dizzy so rotor is pointing at #1 pin on cap. pull #1 plug, keep connected and ground the plug to head(i do this with a zip tie). disconnect side leads to dizzy. ignition on. as you tap the white wire from msd to ground, spark should fire. if not coil is bad. have spark? good. now you know the issue is on trigger side of ignition. next question. how do you know any of the old icms are good? if you can swap into another vw to confirm, that is best. if not, you need to go through all the diagnostic testing in the bentley to verify that the icm is good. if you have previously tested the hall, and got the fluctuating voltage, you know that works. the only thing left is the icm and its' wiring. if the car ran previously, and is not infested with mice or rats, the wiring is probably good. if the icms you have were just laying around the shop, how did they get there and why? good luck, buddy. it will fire. remember, you have opposable thumbs. the car does not.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

im getting spark through the plugs fine, super strong spark. I dont know if any of the icms work and dont have a bently so I guess I can order a new one, but got two from a guy that has probably 5 wiring harness's that hes collected over the years. The hall is getting 11.5 volts and when cranking it seems to be getting fluctuating 2-4 volts (not real great connection to test from). Really this leaves the ICM right or some wiring maybe?


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

sorry crappy scan, but your the cheap f*%$ who won't buy the manual. happy squinting!


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

I appreciate that a lot. though the msd limits some of those testing options because the msd has weird signals to the coil and cant perform half those tests. When I did test the hall sender it wasnt giving me 0-2 volts it was jumping all over from 0-5 on both my distributors. I also tried a working coil from my cobra and no go. 

do I really want to spend $160 on a new distrubutor when I could buy a whole megajolt kit for $200 right now thats for sale??:banghead:


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## psychobandito (Sep 10, 2009)

what is the rest of your set-up? (Fueling)


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

actually, all the tests for the icm and hall sensor work independently of the msd. You stated you get spark from msd to plugs so the coil works. You also said that the hall signal fluctuates as it should. There is nothing else to break inside the dizzy. You will be pissing your money away if you buy a new dizzy. Your issue sounds like the icm. run through all the tests in section 4.2 If everything checks out, replace the icm with a new piece. $38 from gap. then you'll have spark. :thumbup:


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

in figure 4-2 step 5 it has you testing the ICM with testing voltage at the coil. I can test wiring to the ICM fine yes, but when it comes to actually testing the ICM function it says to put your volt meter on the coil and look for 2 volts with the ignition on, and you cant read voltage at the coil with a msd system


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

because you have msd, your connection for step 5 should be to the OLD coil wires #15 and #1. that test is not through the coil but just to it. hook your volt meter to the wires that used to be connected to t15 and t1 at coil(these are your trigger and your keyed positive).


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

Thanks man I got it running this afternoon by just cleaning grounds and retarding the distributor literally a mm. Must have been too far out and caused something to not work. I actually got to drive it today and bed in my new brakesh


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

:beer:


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