# Where Does All the Oil Go in The EA888 2.0L Gen 3 Turbo Engine?



## Inpd (Nov 30, 2020)

Today I had to put in another quart of oil into my Tiguan 2020 SE with the EA888 Gen 3 engine that is known to burn oil. That makes for 5 quarts in about 20K miles. 

I grew up being taught if an engine burns oil its a bad thing due to leaking seals or something else. But I understand from my excellent dealers that VW expects 1 litre of oil burn per 2K miles. So if they expect it this begs the question where does the oil go? Is it burnt?

Thanks.


----------



## OttaCee (Mar 31, 2000)

Google how Direct Injection works


----------



## rostrow416 (Mar 17, 2008)

It's been a 2.0t thing forever now


----------



## MLB123 (Jan 19, 2021)

rostrow416 said:


> It's been a 2.0t thing forever now


My 13 Eos uses about 3/4 of a quart between my 4,000 mile oil changes. It's either the gen 1 or 2 engine, cbfa.


----------



## jonese (Jun 21, 2020)

Yes, it's burnt off.

As per TSB 17-18-06 - Oil Consumption Measurement:










Below that amount, they will most likely do nothing other than say keep on active eye on your oil level and keep a spare bottle in the trunk.


----------



## 1.8TPSSTVARIANT (Nov 29, 2005)

I own both a 15' MK7 GTI and a 22' Tiguan SEL R-Line. The GTI uses one qt every oil change (10k) and the Tiguan just went thru it's first oil change and oil level was normal.


----------



## O-Deer (Sep 15, 2021)

I just got my new Tiguan, will doing an oil change at 500/1000 miles do anything to help lessen the use of oil in the long run? At the very least I am planning a 750-1000 mile initial oil change, I’d rather get whatever finite particulates break in produces out of there and feel better even if not needed.


----------



## OmegaVW (Feb 14, 2021)

O-Deer said:


> I just got my new Tiguan, will doing an oil change at 500/1000 miles do anything to help lessen the use of oil in the long run? At the very least I am planning a 750-1000 mile initial oil change, I’d rather get whatever finite particulates break in produces out of there and feel better even if not needed.


Whatever you may think might be in the oil will be picked up by the filter. There shouldn't be anything in those micros in quantity to cause engine issues. If you still want to do a break-in oil change, 500 is good but not all at once on a long trip.









What oil to use?


Hello everyone. I'm preparing to change the oil on my Tiguan and I've been told Liqui Moly is the best brand of oil to use for the car. I've seen the Leichtlauf High Tech Engine Oil (5w-40) and the Molygen (5w-40). I've looked online and seen that each has its benefits but have not decided on...




www.vwvortex.com












Castrol 5W50 - Silence Of The Tig-Lamb


. Castrol 5W-50 and Swepco 5W-30 for the Volvos & Lexus V8 GS430. Found them at an exceptional price so stocked up as top off for those exceptional hot summer months. The 2020 Tig used a quart at the first oil change. Just had the second change last month so decided to see how half a quart...




www.vwvortex.com




.


----------



## RoutanDaddy (Apr 25, 2009)

I’ve owned Chryslers that burned 1 qt of oil every 1,000 mi.. (got rid of that one by 45k), or my 98 New Beetle 2.0 which needed a ring job after 65k (factory comped), or my 04 Touareg 3.2 that never burns oil… not even after 7500 mi oil change interval. Still driving the Touareg daily. Lots of variation.
I’ve been told that European drivers rev higher and work they gears more, thereby keeping the rings hotter earlier in the start up cycle, when one is most likely to bleed out oil. Americans love to tootle around at lower rpm’s thereby letting there engines bypass more oil overall. My two cents.


----------



## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

OttaCee said:


> Google how Direct Injection works


Diesels have always been direct injection and never used oil, so I don't see how that is an issue?


----------



## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

A turbo runs the oil many times hotter than an engine that is not turbo because the oil is cooling the turbo charger bearing.
Never use thin oil in a turbo.
While VW is recommending weights like 0w20, one should instead be running 20w50, because any turbo engine is really a race car, putting many times more pressure and heat on the oil.
The engine is turning 5,000 rpm, but the turbo charger is turning much faster than that:
{...
In order to achieve this boost, the turbocharger uses the exhaust flow from the engine to spin a turbine, which in turn spins an air pump. The turbine in the turbocharger usually spins at speeds* between 80,000 and 200,000 rotations per minute* (rpm) — that's up to 30 times faster than most car engines can go. 
...}

There is no way to seal an oil cooled bearing at 200,000 rpm without high oil loss.
You need to let it leak in order to prevent it from becoming fried.


----------



## EL-VW (Mar 23, 2004)

I had a '99 Passat (B5 with AEB 1.8L turbo engine) that didn't burn any oil between oil changes, which I did religiously at 5,000 miles. I mostly drove it conservatively and over half the miles were on the highway. Then at about 50,000 miles, it started to use a little oil and the consumption increased to about 1 quart every 1,200 miles at about 80,000 miles. It stayed at that rate until I sold the car at 200,000 miles.

I also had a 2006 Passat (B6 with 2.0L turbo) that did exactly the same thing at exactly the same mileage. I sold that car at about 100,000 miles and if it is still on the road today, I bet the oil consumption is the same. I now have an Audi Q5 with the 2.0L turbo with only 12,000 miles and it does not use any oil. If history is any guide, I am betting that it will follow the same pattern. I have heard that it is common for German cars to use oil and have known people with BMWs and Mercedes that had these same issues.


----------



## KCJeep (Dec 5, 2018)

My 12 Tiguan with the 2,0t used a bit at 85k, but by 120k was gulping it at an alarming rate. Dealer was recommending turbo replacement but thought a new waste gate was a possible bandaid. It also had carbon buildup issues by then. Always ran great and my daughter loved that thing.

We traded it, high mileage VWs are not for the faint of heart if you don’t do your own work.


----------



## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

The main problem is VW started recommending ridiculously thin oil, like 0w20.
After 50k miles, all cars likely should be running 20w50 weight oil, which greatly lengthens the life of the engine.
All seal must leak oil deliberately, or else they will burn up.
If you look close at any oil seal, you will see serrations designed and intended to leak.
With a turbo, there are 2 increases in oil loss.
One is the higher compression strains the PCV system, and the other is the scorching hot turbo itself is oil cooled and running 10 times the RPM of the engine.


----------



## Itzed2u (Aug 27, 2014)

Personally, I’d rather be burning a little oil than having the level rise because of dilution.


----------



## OmegaVW (Feb 14, 2021)

.
Piston designed explained.

Designed to keep compression gas from going down into crank case.
Scraping Oil Down
Designed to control oil from going up, not allowing it to escape into the combustion chamber. Oil going up is not part of the engine's normal nor desired function. All those grooves are so oil can flow evenly around and go into the various drain holes and go down. Not possible to seal it completely but not designed to allow oil to go up but rather back down into the crank case.

Poor metallurgy, keeping cost down and unproven design desiring to push as many horse as possible with weight saving small displacement using turbo results in tight rings in the beginning for EPA & MPG to then wearing out too soon. Can't push physics with what you want vs can realistically design without something giving out. The customers unfortunately is the test bed. Add to being unable to control 3rd party batching of parts quality you get hit and miss car longevity and problems.

If a manufacturer remotely suggest changing oil viscosity as mileage goes up everyone will know the obvious that they are covering up a fast wearing engine. The classaction lawyers would have field day with that kind of suggestion so the thin oil is geared for EPA & MPG in the beginning. The Volvo 2.0's and even reliable 2.5's suffer from advance ring design that the oil advances very rapidly into the combustion chamber making them worthless in terms of resale.

.
*Function 2. Control Lubricating Oil (Engine Oil)*
Function to constantly create the minimum required lubricating oil layer to prevent burn. Inside an engine’s cylinder, the piston ring is subject to high-temperature combustion gas, and, with the piston, must travel and return many thousands of times a minute, or even more.









To ensure the piston ring and cylinder do not burn, and to prevent excess lubricating oil from getting inside the combustion chamber, the cylinder wall lubricating oil layer is controlled at the minimum required.









What Is Piston Ring?- Function, Types, And Uses | Engineering Choice


A piston ring is a metallic split ring that is attached to the outer diameter of a piston in an internal combustion engine or steam engine.




www.engineeringchoice.com













The Science Behind Piston Rings and Grooves Explained


Piston ring grooves serve a larger purpose than simply supporting the rings. They impact combustion sealing, oil control, friction, and many more engine attribu




www.motortrend.com





.

Rings Designed For Emissions (Less Friction) - Didn't Work Out Well
.





.


----------



## decafam (2 mo ago)

I might get a half 1/2 quart loss in 8-10K. I run 0w-40 or 5W30 in the MIdWest and I'd be willing to run 5W40 or 5W50 in a pinch but have not done so since 2.0L is calling for 0W20...I'd rather keep it closer to what they want even if 0W20 way to thin IMO


----------



## Michael07gti (Oct 8, 2020)

It doesn't seem like I burn any oil in my Rabbit. 0w-20 seems too light to me, also, I'm running Castrol Edge 10w-40. I change at 6k-8k intervals, and just crossed 48k miles. I do check the oil monthly, and am not seeing much of a drop, if any.
My 2007 mk5 was exactly as the previous posters said though.


----------



## shortybdub (Oct 14, 2011)

Had 5 brand new VWs over the past 10 years and NONE consume oil. I broke in each one the exact same way and think it contributes to the overall sealing of the cylinder/ring interface. Modern VWs have migrated to low tension piston rings for efficiency reasons at the expense of consuming oil. A piston ring is pretty hard steel and it must seal against an iron cylinder liner. The only way to generate enough pressure to push the rings against that liner is to produce load. Simply accelerating does produce load, however it needs more. Like driving up a hill and pressing hard on the throttle. And it usually needs this to happen within a few hundred miles or the rings and cylinder will not "polish" together and make it more difficult to produce a really good seal. I have seen engines with 100K that were babied and the liners still have a faint crosshatch pattern. While this is good to maintain oil film on the liners, it gets scraped up into the combustion chamber and is burned off. So, yeah, I totally ignore the engine "break-in" regime of keeping revs low for 600-100 miles and give it some beans to produce a sufficient load to pressurize the rings. Call me crazy, or whatever, but it works.


----------



## O-Deer (Sep 15, 2021)

shortybdub said:


> Had 5 brand new VWs over the past 10 years and NONE consume oil. I broke in each one the exact same way and think it contributes to the overall sealing of the cylinder/ring interface. Modern VWs have migrated to low tension piston rings for efficiency reasons at the expense of consuming oil. A piston ring is pretty hard steel and it must seal against an iron cylinder liner. The only way to generate enough pressure to push the rings against that liner is to produce load. Simply accelerating does produce load, however it needs more. Like driving up a hill and pressing hard on the throttle. And it usually needs this to happen within a few hundred miles or the rings and cylinder will not "polish" together and make it more difficult to produce a really good seal. I have seen engines with 100K that were babied and the liners still have a faint crosshatch pattern. While this is good to maintain oil film on the liners, it gets scraped up into the combustion chamber and is burned off. So, yeah, I totally ignore the engine "break-in" regime of keeping revs low for 600-100 miles and give it some beans to produce a sufficient load to pressurize the rings. Call me crazy, or whatever, but it works.


Well then mine will use oil, I drove like a baby the first 400 miles I drove pretty normal 500+ miles at 750 now, will cross 1000 this week with work commute and thanksgiving travel. Will probably give it the beans in sport mode finally.


----------



## Premise (6 mo ago)

1.8TPSSTVARIANT said:


> I own both a 15' MK7 GTI and a 22' Tiguan SEL R-Line. The GTI uses one qt every oil change (10k) and the Tiguan just went thru it's first oil change and oil level was normal.


You actually do 10K mile changes on your GTI? I thought everyone did 5-7k due to how these cars beat up oil.


----------



## shortybdub (Oct 14, 2011)

O-Deer said:


> Well then mine will use oil, I drove like a baby the first 400 miles I drove pretty normal 500+ miles at 750 now, will cross 1000 this week with work commute and thanksgiving travel. Will probably give it the beans in sport mode finally.


 It would still benefit from giving it those beans up some long uphill runs


----------



## IbsFt (Dec 15, 2018)

Inpd said:


> Today I had to put in another quart of oil into my Tiguan 2020 SE with the EA888 Gen 3 engine that is known to burn oil. That makes for 5 quarts in about 20K miles.
> 
> I grew up being taught if an engine burns oil its a bad thing due to leaking seals or something else. But I understand from my excellent dealers that VW expects 1 litre of oil burn per 2K miles. So if they expect it this begs the question where does the oil go? Is it burnt?
> 
> Thanks.


What is "normal" oil consumption for the EA888 Gen3 or where your engine oil is going is anyone's guess. Our 2019 Tig with 41K miles uses no noticeable oil in between 5K oil changes.
To respond to your other thread, excessive oil consumption should definitely be a consideration when deciding whether to keep the car after the warranty runs out.



RoutanDaddy said:


> I’ve owned Chryslers that burned 1 qt of oil every 1,000 mi.. (got rid of that one by 45k), or my 98 New Beetle 2.0 which needed a ring job after 65k (factory comped), or my 04 Touareg 3.2 that never burns oil… not even after 7500 mi oil change interval. Still driving the Touareg daily. Lots of variation.
> I’ve been told that European drivers rev higher and work they gears more, thereby keeping the rings hotter earlier in the start up cycle, when one is most likely to bleed out oil. Americans love to tootle around at lower rpm’s thereby letting there engines bypass more oil overall. My two cents.


Years ago I questioned a OEM engineer about the oil consumption on an 08 Dodge using 5W-20 that used about a quart between changes when new. Here is his similar reply to someone else asking about oil consumption: "The vapors of the PCV system are considered a pollutant, so they get sucked back into the intake and burned during combustion. Since it is considered a pollutant, should the PCV hose become disconnected, the driver has to be "notified" somehow. Usually this is done with OBD and the check engine light, however, it is quite expensive to use actual physical equipment to monitor the PCV flow and make sure it is always connected.

The EPA allows the manufacturers a small loophole to save money and effort: design the PCV system in such a way that if it becomes disconnected, the engine will stall and be very hard to keep running. Awesome, I know, but we're kinda forced to do it if we want to sell cars.

So...now that we have PCV systems that flow so much, there exists a greater chance to suck oil vapor out of the engine where it can collect in the intake manifold and hang out. It also just gets sucked into the cylinders and burned. "

Talking with different OEM engineer just the other day, it sounds like they still do the PCV fault sensing that way. Hopefully they OEMs have gotten much better at separating the oil mist out before it leaves the crankcase. According to the VW Self Study literature the balance shaft on our Tigs engine does double duty acting as a centrifugal separator to remove oil from the fumes going out the crankcase vent. Judging from the Tig we own, it must work. Btw that Dodge was scrapped at 160K due to rust. The engine was still running strong.



kirk_augustin said:


> The main problem is VW started recommending ridiculously thin oil, like 0w20.
> After 50k miles, all cars likely should be running 20w50 weight oil, which greatly lengthens the life of the engine.
> All seal must leak oil deliberately, or else they will burn up.
> If you look close at any oil seal, you will see serrations designed and intended to leak.
> ...


Going to have to question your claims on this. If the thin oil is the problem why don't all Tigs consume oil?

As far as the 20-W50 being better long term, do you have any test results with the EA888 Gen 3 to back that claim up or is that just your opinion?


----------



## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

I think shortybdub is on the right track. I have an '18 that doesn't burn any appreciable amount of oil. I was quite careful to know and follow the engine break-in process before I picked the car up at the dealership.
I would guess that most people don't know about or appreciate that the break-in is quite important and can affect the performance characteristics of the engine for the remainder of its life.

And, trust me, I don't baby this car. I have it tuned and am prone to "spirited driving" and haven't put any oil in between scheduled changes.


----------



## fancyTHIS (Sep 30, 2007)

IbsFt said:


> Going to have to question your claims on this. If the thin oil is the problem why don't all Tigs consume oil?
> 
> As far as the 20-W50 being better long term, do you have any test results with the EA888 Gen 3 to back that claim up or is that just your opinion?


Completely disregard the BS that kirk_augustin is spouting, that is absolutely his own opinion with no evidence.

2018 Tiguan with 390,000km on it, ran 0W20 up to 200,000km when it started consuming oil. Switched oils and gradually worked up to 5W50 until it got to about 1L per 350km with no explanation. Compression & leak down were exceptional. There was no indication of it being in the cylinders but was coming burnt out the exhaust, turbo did not have shaft play. Used a bore scope to inspect Cylinders 3 & 4 and found oil dripping off the exhaust valves, when the engine was running it was being pushed out the exhaust. We removed the cams & springs to find that 4/8 valve stem seals were completely out of place & no longer sealing whatsoever. Replaced seals & oil consumption dropped to zero for a few thousand KM. It has started smelling like oil from the exhaust again & haven't had a chance to look further yet, at 396,000km now and have had to add about 2L of oil in 6,000km.


----------



## fancyTHIS (Sep 30, 2007)

kirk_augustin said:


> The main problem is VW started recommending ridiculously thin oil, like 0w20.
> After 50k miles, all cars likely should be running 20w50 weight oil, which greatly lengthens the life of the engine.
> All seal must leak oil deliberately, or else they will burn up.
> If you look close at any oil seal, you will see serrations designed and intended to leak.
> ...


0W20 can be used because of the tighter tolerances, thin oil does not mean oil consumption, an unhealthy engine does.

At 50k Miles you could do an oil analysis to determine what your engine needs, 50k miles stop go is completely different than 50k miles highway.

If all seals leaked oil, you would see a sweat around all the seals, which is 100% false.

Turbo does not mean higher compression strains on the PCV system, no boost pressure is introduced to the crankcase. My 3.6 VR6, MQB Sportwagen with IS38 and Tiguan all run the same oil temperatures, that's why vehicles have oil coolers. No to mention turbos are also coolant cooled, yet that doesn't increase the coolant temp on its own.

Please stop spouting information with no educational or empirical basis.


----------



## OmegaVW (Feb 14, 2021)

.
Quite a bit to ask for in a 2.0T for the size of the vehicle. Maybe great in the beginning but does EPA have a cradle to grave oil consumption (polluting) standard that keep tract of the amount or amount allowable over the life of the vehicle?

Overcoming physics in design and materials, sourcing of materials, consistent batching, consistent 3rd party parts quality to quality control during assembly of all those parts to finally the need for 0W20 in the beginning for the tight tolerances to meet specs for HP and pass EPA all can easily contribute to an oil consumption problem not to mention coolant consumption. It's easy to have a hit and miss healthy or unhealthy engine. 

From the problems encountered by so many owners I would say VW missed. If VW allows for a considerable amount of oil use as normal then it just means they've changed the industry criteria in design for an engine to compensate all the problems they've couldn't overcome. The engine is not supposed to release that much pollutant into the ecosystem.

On top of the oil consumption issue VW is perhaps training their uneducated and inexperienced young Service Writers to spout false science that it's normal to have coolant comsumption. Like the AC system it's suppose to an enclosed system. As the refrigerant goes through its change of state it remains in the system. There may be a small amount of misting of coolant within the system but it will condense back into the closed system. Any loss has to be a seepage or leakage. Told the young Service Writer if that is what VW is telling you to sell me we really don't need to discuss it as we are working off of different yet very basic scientific principles.
.


----------



## O-Deer (Sep 15, 2021)

OmegaVW said:


> .
> Quite a bit to ask for in a 2.0T for the size of the vehicle. Maybe great in the beginning but does EPA have a cradle to grave oil consumption (polluting) standard that keep tract of the amount or amount allowable over the life of the vehicle?
> 
> Overcoming physics in design and materials, sourcing of materials, consistent batching, consistent 3rd party parts quality to quality control during assembly of all those parts to finally the need for 0W20 in the beginning for the tight tolerances to meet specs for HP and pass EPA all can easily contribute to an oil consumption problem not to mention coolant consumption. It's easy to have a hit and miss healthy or unhealthy engine.
> ...


Yah this is why I decided to forgo my included service intervals at the dealer, I’d have to pay for a break in oil change anyway, just gonna start a relationship with a local euro mechanic shop that specializes in VAG autos. I have way more confidence in them doing work then I do with most service folks other then some of the master techs.


----------



## OmegaVW (Feb 14, 2021)

O-Deer said:


> Yah this is why I decided to forgo my included service intervals at the dealer, I’d have to pay for a break in oil change anyway, just gonna start a relationship with a local euro mechanic shop that specializes in VAG autos. I have way more confidence in them doing work then I do with most service folks other then some of the master techs.


.
Wanted to have records of service at the dealership so let them do the work. First oil change dripped here and there but the filter removal made a mess. The second service I wrapped an old sock around the filler neck and the oil change was much cleaner. Was unintended but perhaps they got the message. Debating whether to allow them to continue with oil changes so in case something happens they will be more friendly with warranty work.

.


----------



## Urano17 (Jul 7, 2018)

I purchased my Tiguan new in April of 2019. I manage to put on a 100k mile since then. I changed my PCV to 50k. My Tiguan consumes less than a quart in the 7500-10k oil change interval. From my experience not have the oil level at its full mark. I run the oil level just below the A mark on the dipstick. I'm just wondering if “WE” are accidentally overfilling the oil which may lead to over-consuming. The majority of my driving is highway and I don't push it.


----------



## KCJeep (Dec 5, 2018)

You are dead on. If you are at the top or a bit over consumption is faster.


----------



## AxelP (Jun 30, 2021)

Urano17 said:


> I purchased my Tiguan new in April of 2019. I manage to put on a 100k mile since then. I changed my PCV to 50k. My Tiguan consumes less than a quart in the 7500-10k oil change interval. From my experience not have the oil level at its full mark. I run the oil level just below the A mark on the dipstick. I'm just wondering if “WE” are accidentally overfilling the oil which may lead to over-consuming. The majority of my driving is highway and I don't push it.


wow 100k! how is the engine holding up? any tune? any extra service? timing belt, serpentine belt etc? carbon deposits? 
What fuel you use regularly?
highly curious, sorry for related/not related questions in the oil thread


----------



## OmegaVW (Feb 14, 2021)

Urano17 said:


> I purchased my Tiguan new in April of 2019. I manage to put on a 100k mile since then. I changed my PCV to 50k. My Tiguan consumes less than a quart in the 7500-10k oil change interval. From my experience not have the oil level at its full mark. I run the oil level just below the A mark on the dipstick. I'm just wondering if “WE” are accidentally overfilling the oil which may lead to over-consuming. The majority of my driving is highway and I don't push it.


.
The question is why VW is instructing dealerships to fill to the middle. A little bit up to half a quart for most is usually not a problem. Perhaps VW made the dipstick too short and instead of a recall just a bulletin.

Have seen this at Acura in the mid 90's. Had 4 ASE's and started with PDI then installation such as complete Factory AC's, Alarms and Phones. Have dealt with Japanese engineers when finding small issues due to poor design or lack of QC during production. Every car had a 150 point checklist which required visual but with most actual hands on.

Due to wide variations in oil consumption it's going to be a variety of issues. The majority of times however it has been the piston rings. With the industry going to small displacement to horse power to weight ratio, we are seeing oil consumption issues in other makes. It's also because these small engines have reach what science will allow them to do.










Too Much Oil in Car Engine: Symptoms & What to Do If You Overfilled It


Made the mistake of putting too much oil in your car engine? Or, are you doing your research to prevent overfilling by mistake? Read our guide for help!




www.vehiclescene.com





.









.


----------



## Urano17 (Jul 7, 2018)

AxelP said:


> wow 100k! how is the engine holding up? any tune? any extra service? timing belt, serpentine belt etc? carbon deposits?
> What fuel you use regularly?
> highly curious, sorry for related/not related questions in the oil thread


----------



## Urano17 (Jul 7, 2018)

Funny you ask. I just ordered Unitronic tune stage 1 91 octane. So far no issues, oil changes, front rear differential, transmission, Haldex, spark plugs, and brakes with a flush. I average 27-30 mpg and run 87 octanes. I'm starting to get suspension noise which I believe to be the strut hat. Going to wait for summer to do springs, shocks, and anything else that needs to be replaced. 

As far as carbon clean ill probably get it done in the spring. As far as the water pump so far no signs of leaks or smell. I may drain and fill before it gets any colder here in Illinois. No belts.

I probably had one of the worst engines that Ford ever produced. It was in my 1994 Thunderbird with the 3.8 V6. It was plagued with bad head gaskets and way underpowered to move that anchor. What I learned is not to beat on it, change the oil regularly. Maintaining the oil level 3/4 on the dipstick. I purchased it new in 94 and sold it in 2012 with over 200k.


----------



## Urano17 (Jul 7, 2018)

OmegaVW said:


> .
> The question is why VW is instructing dealerships to fill to the middle. A little bit up to half a quart for most is usually not a problem. Perhaps VW made the dipstick too short and instead of a recall just a bulletin.
> 
> Have seen this at Acura in the mid 90's. Had 4 ASE's and started with PDI then installation such as complete Factory AC's, Alarms and Phones. Have dealt with Japanese engineers when finding small issues due to poor design or lack of QC during production. Every car had a 150 point checklist which required visual but with most actual hands on.
> ...


From my experience with this engine, the oil doesn't drain completely. For example, I would park it on level ground and check the oil after an hour. Now the following morning before starting I'll check the oil again guess what I now have more oil than the previous reading. It was not just a one-time deal. So, that's when I started to use the halfway marks on the dipstick as my “full”. 0w-20 508/509 spec


----------



## GregRob (Dec 16, 2020)

kirk_augustin said:


> A turbo runs the oil many times hotter than an engine that is not turbo because the oil is cooling the turbo charger bearing.
> Never use thin oil in a turbo.
> While VW is recommending weights like 0w20, one should instead be running 20w50, because any turbo engine is really a race car, putting many times more pressure and heat on the oil.
> The engine is turning 5,000 rpm, but the turbo charger is turning much faster than that:
> ...


I agree. One of the issues with the type B cycle engine is they run the exhaust manifold inside of the head. VW will tell you that it's to warm the engine up faster, and it does, but I believe they did it to keep the turbo temp down. By precooling the exhaust gas, they steal power from the turbo which is why they had to downsize it to try and eliminate the turbo lag. It's like a dog chasing its tail. Engine pollutes the most when it's cold... Make it warm up faster by stealing heat from the exhaust manifold... overcome resulting turbo lag by making it smaller... Leaving you with a turbo that can't get out of its own way. And why did they need the turbo to run cooler? Because they told the EPA that they would insist the owners would have to run a 0W-20 oil to reduce internal friction and achieve better gas milage. An oil that can't adequately lubricate the turbo in the first place. I run a VW 504 right now and I don't burn any oil. I may jump up to the 0W-40 in the future.


----------



## OmegaVW (Feb 14, 2021)

Urano17 said:


> From my experience with this engine, the oil doesn't drain completely. For example, I would park it on level ground and check the oil after an hour. Now the following morning before starting I'll check the oil again guess what I now have more oil than the previous reading. It was not just a one-time deal. So, that's when I started to use the halfway marks on the dipstick as my “full”. 0w-20 508/509 spec


.
I was considering that also but not sure where the restriction would be. Could potentially take time for the oil to flow out of the filter. Will make an effort to check it when cold then an hour after driving to compare the level.

Since the level is greater when cold then it should be fill to the full mark as checking hot the level will be half.

.


----------



## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

Urano17 said:


> From my experience not have the oil level at its full mark. I run the oil level just below the A mark on the dipstick. I'm just wondering if “WE” are accidentally overfilling the oil which may lead to over-consuming. The majority of my driving is highway and I don't push it.


This is quite possible. Likely,even.
Sometimes when diagnosing issues you're really diagnosing user behavior. I do that all the time in my computer support tech role.
In another thread I responded to a poster who said he regularly filled up the 'Max" mark with the engine cold.
VW's process requires the engine at operating temp and says the hashed area of the dipstick is the normal fill range and you "can" add more if you want but to not exceed the level of the upper indent or smooth area. 

human nature is "more is better". But really when the spec is 6qts (192 oz 5.7L) the additional 8-12oz to get to the "max" mark is an insignificant volume (6%) but at the time highly risky in that oil can escape it's expected containment areas.
If you want more oil volume in the vehicle you should change the pan. This one isn't cheap but it increases the oil volume by 2L (30% over stock): bar-tek-tuning.com/20l-tsi-aluminium-oil-pan

But this all still leads to the question about what the EEE8 is doing with the excess oil? If it's being burned then wouldn't that lead to premature catalytic converter damage? Is there a low-enough rate of oil burn were it can be consumed but not cause damage?


----------



## jonese (Jun 21, 2020)

VW's instructions are at operating temperature, and WAIT 5 minutes after shutting off. Occasionally, I've noticed a difference in reading at 5 minutes and 12 hour later, but not always.

And, it does without saying, but anyway, operating temperature is via oil temperature, not water temperature.

Also, PDI says if they oil is in the hash mark, do not add to bring it to the upper mark, leave it as is.


----------



## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

jonese said:


> VW's instructions are at operating temperature, and WAIT 5 minutes after shutting off. Occasionally, I've noticed a difference in reading at 5 minutes and 12 hour later, but not always.
> 
> And, it does without saying, but anyway, operating temperature is via oil temperature, not water temperature.
> 
> Also, PDI says if they oil is in the hash mark, do not add to bring it to the upper mark, leave it as is.


Agree 100%. 
This is one conversation I've had in the past about this: First oil change (32mm socket needed for oil filter...

I've seen other threads and spoken with people (not about the Tig) who feel the Max mark is the intended fill level and even then "a little extra" is best.
wrong, wrong, wrong.


----------

