# ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum



## SuperGroove (Aug 20, 2000)

This forum makes me lonely. I barely have anyone to talk to UrS4s or 20VTs about.
SO I implure the following people to buy a 20VT powered car:
Silly_Me
duandcc
PerL
yummyjagrmeister(sp?)
Haiku_Master/billzcat1
...you know..since I've done a reasonable job screening General Audi members...everyone on this board should treat themselves to a 20VT powered car!
And to those that actually own a 20VT powered car(read:200HP4DR, sirhc, sepp, turbojew), shame on you for not giving me much to read in terms of 20VT content!
This marks the end of this public service announcement.


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (SuperGroove)*

Well, heck! If you don't mind loaning me the money to get one, that would be great! But my actual plans are to bring my Cq to "as close to as I can" post 1994 S2 spec, hence an AAN 20vT, but not until I am out of school







. I am grabbing up all the small parts as I go along, piece by piece by piece by piece . . . . .


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## Bboble (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (SuperGroove)*

I've got an UR-S4, and just might sell it...
As it stands Cash would be better used than the car!


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## Haiku Master (May 29, 2003)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (SuperGroove)*

Look mom someone thinks I'm cool!








Sorry I don't have a 20vt car in my near future but I am indeed motor swappin. TOP SECRET!!


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## NW4KQ driver (Nov 30, 2001)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (Haiku Master)*

oh man, can I get a 20vt too


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## Silly_me (Jul 26, 1999)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (SuperGroove)*

My wife would kill me







Hmmmm life or a 20VT Avant







I chose DEATH!


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## Crispyfritter (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (Silly_me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Silly_me* »_My wife would kill me







Hmmmm life or a 20VT Avant







I chose DEATH!









I may be able to help you out. 








Chris


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## Silly_me (Jul 26, 1999)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (200HP4dr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *200HP4dr* »_
I may be able to help you out. 








Chris

*You* are a bad influence







The kind of guy my wife warns me about


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (Silly_me)*

Humm, 20VT Coupe GT or just get a UrS4 as a weekend cruiser?


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (duandcc)*

UrS4, make CGT a track car, strip it and build it.


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## Sepp (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (yumyjagermiester)*

I have a urs4, bring on the conversations....


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## Haiku Master (May 29, 2003)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (Sepp)*

Ur-S4s = http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Someday I will own one, maybe an Ur-S6...or even an Ur-S6 wagon. However, that is not in my forseeable future which makes me


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## Harold (Jul 31, 2000)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (Haiku Master)*

LOOK an ur-S6 newbie ( me) going on one month of ownership.







Sorry won't have much to talk about as I am keeping her stock for at least the winter.


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## Crispyfritter (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (Harold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Harold* »_LOOK an ur-S6 newbie ( me) going on one month of ownership.







Sorry won't have much to talk about as I am keeping her stock for at least the winter.

IM me and we can talk about mods. We just built a motor capable of about 450 HP. You *need* 450 HP.








Chris


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (yumyjagermiester)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yumyjagermiester* »_UrS4, make CGT a track car, strip it and build it.

Are you







?! Have you seen my CGT? It's almost perfect, not a ding anywhere, perfect (almost) paint, and only 856 of threm were imported, mechanically perfect... . I'd shoot anybody who threatens to make a track car out of a CGT with the Special Build package...


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## Harold (Jul 31, 2000)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (200HP4dr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *200HP4dr* »_
IM me and we can talk about mods. We just built a motor capable of about 450 HP. You *need* 450 HP.








Chris

Jeez Chris you are frightening me, you sound like some sort of Dealer !








Do you offer samples ?


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## Crispyfritter (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (Harold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Harold* »_
Jeez Chris you are frightening me, you sound like some sort of Dealer !








Do you offer samples ?









Actually, very soon I will be a dealer.








Of stuff from Momo, Neuspeed, sparco and others.








Chris


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## mk2boost (Jul 3, 2000)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (SuperGroove)*

10VT COMING SOON http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## desmo888 (Oct 21, 2003)

Not on the list but seriously considering a 20VT (3B) for my CQ.
Yumy has already provided some info on 20v.org.
What are the main points of difficulty?
I figure:
1. wiring
2. Intercooler mounting and plumbing
3. air conditioning compressor
Anything else?
Dave K.
'90 CQ


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (SuperGroove)*

I'm going to be getting a 20v NA for my 4k soon








I know, I know, its not a turbo. I guess i'll have to take my ball and go play somewhere else


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (MFZERO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MFZERO* »_I'm going to be getting a 20v NA for my 4k soon








I know, I know, its not a turbo. I guess i'll have to take my ball and go play somewhere else









That is a horrible idea. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (yumyjagermiester)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yumyjagermiester* »_
That is a horrible idea. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif









Why is that a horrible idea?







The 20V NA is a great little engine and in a light weight 4K it will provide plenty of power for most people. Heck 130 hp in a light type 85 feels pretty good. My CGT with only 130hp has the same hp to weight ratio as a stock UrQ...


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## rcr_x (Apr 21, 1999)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (yumyjagermiester)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yumyjagermiester* »_
That is a horrible idea. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif









why?? if it's cheap...it would be a helluva entertaining combo.... the 4kq's LIGHT weigh vs. tha porky CQ....the super close ratio 5spd to keep the 20V on tha boil..... Imagine an AWD 2.0 16V GTI and you'd have roughly the same idea...but with vastly superior wet weather handling.... I've considered the same setup.... the 20V NA motors go for so cheap lately...when you can find em.... I've wondered how they would respond to a professional P&P job.... My friend had his 2.0 16V head done by Dan Hall up here in tha PNW and with stock cams it added like 25hp! That car went from very entertaining to scary quick. I'd imagine the effect would be similar on a lightened 4kq.... I don't think 200hp NA would be out of the question for a 20V 2.3 5cylinder... while ur at it why not have the head shaved slightly to bump it up to 11:1 or so.... I know it's not gonna match a turbo motor for all out power but in a stripped down track car it would be damn quick....


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (duandcc)*

Because the 20v is a very hard to mod engine! The swap will be just as hard to do as a 10vt. Plus a 10vT can be had for cheaper then a 7A. Like I said, a horrible idea. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (yumyjagermiester)*

well at my work we have both a 10vT and a 20v NA and my dad doesn't want to go turbo(read: his car, his word; but its my shop, my discount







)
I can get either motor for my self very cheap and I have Audi techs in arms reach for help questions.
The 20v motor I speak of came out of former tech's car(4kcsq that he swapped and rebuilt the top half of the engine himself) that i could have bought 3 years ago for $100 dollars(still kicking self in ass for that one







). All I need to do is get my hands on a wiring harness(My local Audi dealer is only a phone call and 3 miles away!!).


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## sashae (Jul 3, 2001)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (MFZERO)*

How hard are 20vT's to find, and how expensive are they anyway? I've been looking at the V6 90CS as a new daily driver to keep miles off the S4, but (of course) I *heart* turbos...
-s


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (yumyjagermiester)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yumyjagermiester* »_Because the 20v is a very hard to mod engine! The swap will be just as hard to do as a 10vt. Plus a 10vT can be had for cheaper then a 7A. Like I said, a horrible idea. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

But there are down sides to turbos too. Turbo lag, heat soak, boost leaks, ect. Listen into the Q-list, the most common problem is with the MC1 & MC 2 engines and is frequently due to leaks. The 7A isn't any harder to mod than any other NA engine. There's a guy on the q-list who did this exact swap (7A into a 4kQ). He said that it's more than enough power in stock form for the 4k. Remember, not everybody loves turbos, and just because it isn't the engine you want, doesn't make it a horrible idea.


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (duandcc)*

Well with the 20v motor we will be doing, p&p, head work, cam, exhaust and K&N.
The motor in the 4kscq already has a cam and a K&N so that will need to be replaced


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## rcr_x (Apr 21, 1999)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (MFZERO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MFZERO* »_Well with the 20v motor we will be doing, p&p, head work, cam, exhaust and K&N.
The motor in the 4kscq already has a cam and a K&N so that will need to be replaced









yeah! that sounds interesting. Let us know how that turns out. What year of 4kq is it?


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## Sepp (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (rcr_x)*

Isn't there a severe shortage/discontinuation of injectors for the 7A???
That would make the 7A a bad transplant choice......
Maybe I have that confused with another engine.


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## Haiku Master (May 29, 2003)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (Sepp)*

Sepp, you are correct. Not only are the injectors out of production, they are getting in short supply and are quite expensive. No one has successfully retrofitted Bosch injectors to the car yet.
Since I have some sort of post whoring complex... here's my thoughts








I think the 20v N/A into the 4kq would be a fun motor. A couple things I see as problems: the 016 tranmission in the 4kq uses a long input shaft and a crank mounted pilot bearing. The 01A in 90/CQs a short stub input shaft and a flywheel mounted pilot bearing. The 20v flywheel must be retained since it has the proper reference points for the Hitachi MPI fuel injection.
The Hitachi MPI is a picky system to set up properly. There are very few techs and even fewer home mechanics who are skilled at diagnosing problems. All in all, I think the classic 10vt swap is an easier proposition with more tuning potential. However, Dave has a point. Turbos aren't for everyone!










_Modified by Haiku Master at 2:56 AM 10-25-2003_


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (Haiku Master)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Haiku Master* »_The Hitachi MPI is a picky system to set up properly. 

You're telling me, I wouldn't wish the un-fixable power loss problem I am having on my 7A on my worst enemy....







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## 84cgtturbo (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (duandcc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duandcc* »_
Are you







?! Have you seen my CGT? It's almost perfect, not a ding anywhere, perfect (almost) paint, and only 856 of threm were imported, mechanically perfect... . I'd shoot anybody who threatens to make a track car out of a CGT with the Special Build package...


Go ahead duandcc, make the CGT into a track car. Right after yumyjagermiester rips the 20v out of his car to put in yours!








BTW guys I have 30 valves, 10 in my 5KS, 10 in my 4KCSQ, & 10 more in my CGT turbo.








J. Lyons


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## Haiku Master (May 29, 2003)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (84cgtturbo)*

If I was going to make a FWD track car, I'd start with a CGT Special Build. Something like this


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (84cgtturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *84cgtturbo* »_Go ahead duandcc, make the CGT into a track car. Right after yumyjagermiester rips the 20v out of his car to put in yours!










And this means what?


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## 84cgtturbo (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (yumyjagermiester)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yumyjagermiester* »_
And this means what?









Just a joke, man.







Having seen duandccs' car here on the Tex, I wouldn't touch it either (to clean example of a CGT Special Build to molest). http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
So I guess it was meant to illustrate what extreme it might take to prompt him to make a track car out of his CGT.























J. Lyons


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (84cgtturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *84cgtturbo* »_
Just a joke, man.







Having seen duandccs' car here on the Tex, I wouldn't touch it either (to clean example of a CGT Special Build to molest). http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
So I guess it was meant to illustrate what extreme it might take to prompt him to make a track car out of his CGT.























J. Lyons


So ones car has to be a hoopty to mod?







I don't understand this school of thought.
_MY_ thoughts:
Don't swap in a N/A motor unless you can count the number of cyl's it has by using more then 7 fingers.
Just because a cars new or original paint job is nice, or because it is a "rare" car, dose not mean you should not mod it, rather, giving you more the reason to modify it.
A turbo motor with "X" cly's will always make more power than a N/A version of the same or similar displacement.
Why make your car fast, or handle better, or stop better if you are not going to test the validity of your modifications at a track? Garage Queen?
Quattro is ALWAYS better then FWD







Audi has proved this fact MANY times over, on dirt, on tarmac, in my daily life.
Modifying your (rare, not rare) car is_not_sacrilegious, but yet it is almost religious. It is in utter respect to your machine to make it a better one, not like telling the woman in your life she needs bigger ****, she_is_not a machine.








An Audi comes from the factory in a condition meant for the average driver for the average commute, and is a vastly superior machine compared to others meant for the same task. Are you average? I'm sure as hell not








An "original", "stock" car is an empty canvas, it is your duty to paint the picture you desire.
These truths are self evident and is why I pledge my allegiance The United Makes of VAG.
The thread that holds Audi to its roots, Vorsprung durch Technik. . . . . .


_Modified by yumyjagermiester at 12:49 AM 10-25-2003_


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## SuperGroove (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (yumyjagermiester)*

that almost made me cry, yumy.
Then I remembered, that it costs a butt load to do what I want with my car.
Sigh, such islife.


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (SuperGroove)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SuperGroove* »_it costs a butt load to do what I want with my car.
Sigh, such islife.

Then unload that BUTT







Start small, work big, baby steps.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 84cgtturbo (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (yumyjagermiester)*

You know, my car is exceptionally modified. Pretty much only the original glass remains (ok maybe the headliner too). So your preaching to the choir here. However I still have all my original parts in my storage shed, just in case I ever get a wild hare up my keister to put it back the way it was (not that I see it happening anytime soon). 
But I understand duandccs' position on leaving it alone, as much as I understand yours on making it better. Pledge allegiance to personal preference...








J. Lyons


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (84cgtturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *84cgtturbo* »_Pledge allegiance to personal preference


That is why I emphasized it was _MY_ thoughts. In a perfect world, everyone would agree, but as we all know, this world ain't perfect.














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 84cgtturbo (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (yumyjagermiester)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yumyjagermiester* »_
That is why I emphasized it was _MY_ thoughts. In a perfect world, everyone would agree, but as we all know, this world ain't perfect.














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Point taken. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif If we all agreed, we'd have only one forum on the Tex too!
J. Lyons


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## PhunkFX (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (84cgtturbo)*


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: ATTN: General Audi Discussion Forum (Haiku Master)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Haiku Master* »_If I was going to make a FWD track car, I'd start with a CGT Special Build. Something like this









That's Dwight's car on AW. It's not a Special Build. It's a 1986. But it has had a LOT of work done. A built 2.3 NG swap (roughly 155 hp), close ratio tranie out of an early CGT, front & rear sway bars, Boge ProGas shocks/struts, Eibach springs, rear suspension & brakes off a 1988 90 FWD (easy way to get disk brakes on a CGT). He holds his own against many more poerful cars in the hill climbs he does. He frequently blows the doors of cars that you wold expect to get spanked by.










_Modified by duandcc at 8:14 AM 10-27-2003_


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